# Violectric HPA V281 - Vorsprung durch Balanced



## Fegefeuer (Jan 28, 2019)

*The Violectric V281 *
*Balanced Headphone Amp*​




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(all above photos by user: Gipsy)​

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(photo by user: jark)

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(photo by user: zkadoush)​

*technical insight and explanations by Fried Reim*:

*Why not to use certain adapters to hear SE Headphones on the XLR out: *https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-223#post-13940502

*Pin configuration for the case you want to build a proper one* https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-176#post-13219596

*About different kinds of potentiometers (volume control)* http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/315#post_10807716

*About balanced control inside V220/V281/V600 *http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/360#post_10832913

* About line in- and outputs, levels, impedances and cables between*. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-210#post-13774413

*About balanced and unbalanced signals* https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-250#post-14378632

*A bit of technical advice and setting recommendations:*



pleasantsounds said:


> Recently we have seen many posts relating to the *recommended gain settings* for specific headphones, and the recommendations vary quite wildly. It is important to realise that there's no one universal setting that will suit everyone, as there are several more variables that impact it, e.g.:
> - strength of the input signal
> - listening volume preference
> 
> ...




*user impressions*:

 Project86:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/435#post_10904148
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/435#post_10904682 (vs. Liquid Fire/Glass)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/450#post_10906770 (vs. Svetlana 2)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/465#post_10919961 (vs. Auralic Taurus)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/675#post_10986109 (vs. CMA800R)

 TonyNewman:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1650#post_12285066
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1650#post_12285131
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1650#post_12285172
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1650#post_12285571 (V281 vs. Auralic Taurus)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1695#post_12297730 (V281+Ether C)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1800#post_12488990 (V281 vs. MA 430HA)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1800#post_12491876 (vs. 430HA
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1815#post_12496379 (vs. 430HA)

 PleasantSounds:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/510#post_10930645 (summary between the V281, BHA-1, Taurus mk2 and p700u, using HD800)

 Frank I:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/660#post_10982201
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/660#post_10982474

 JeffMann:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/735#post_11018189

 saxelrod92:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1095#post_11157787

 zkadoush:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1200#post_11248048

 Tobes:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1275#post_11333632

 ab_ba:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1485#post_11751438

* Video Reviews*:

@Mediahound  review: 





 External Reviews:

http://www.headfonia.com/violectric-v281-masterpiece/
http://www.innerfidelity.com/conten...-v281-headphone-amplifier#Gy7KbZRd7huEZ0Db.97
http://www.hifitest.de/test/kopfhoererverstaerker/violectric-hpa_v281_10166
http://headphone.guru/violectric-hpa-v281-balanced-headphone-amp-dac/




V281 MANUAL

http://violectric-usa.com/download/Violectric V281 Manual.pdf

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POWER SPECS:
  Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fdg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> *Finally we managed to measure V220 and V281.
> For a better comparison we added the data from V200.*
> 
> ...


 




*A few photos from the Munich High End Show 2014*:​



Black front




Black V220



HE-560 to listen to via V281/V220



back



Remote control, could be fully tested and works like a charm.

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*A few pictures of the internals*:



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## kookoo

Wowza, that's a small fortune for this thing, still...i'm interested


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## Viper2005

This is going to be the amp of the year!  Can't wait for it


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## skysoul

Will u be starting a pre order list?


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## Fegefeuer

skysoul said:


> Will u be starting a pre order list?


 
  
 I don't know yet if they want to do such a thing on Head-Fi, I've just asked about it. There is huge worldwide interest on these though so they'll be quite busy.


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## roskodan

any hint on the v220 pricing?
  
 looks like the v282 is going into really competitive waters with that price tag
  
 i like the extensive work done to improve usability in the input/output section, and the pot options are really exhaustive, as well as the upgraded dac options but i'm more interested in the new standalone dac offerings
  
 any hint for the upcoming dac devices (v800 successor)?


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## Fegefeuer

V220 will be around 1000€ basic and more depending on your upgrades. No news about V800 successor, I guess the USB option will be upgraded first before any new model.
  
 **updated the OP with more pictures and new prices** (thank you Arthur!)


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## TontonJoK

And the v200 less expensive :atsmile:


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## trhee

Oh boy... dilemma. Wait for the new V220 or get a V200?

Sent from my SHV-E300S using Tapatalk


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## hennessys

Here is some info i posted in the v200 forum earlier, but since Fegefeuer asked to repost:
  
_I was in touch with Fried Reim in December and i asked him about the new amps. I hope he doesn't mind, if i share  it with you guys._
  
_About amps to come ..._
  
_We are working on successors of V181 and V200, named V281 and V220._
_To save costs V220 will be the base of V281._
  
_They will have double height cases so 2 "standard" units will meet the height of the new amp(s),_
_also the cases might be a little deeper._
_The basic V200 circuitry will remain and will be implemented into the balanced V281._
_The transformer will be bigger to have a bit more amp-juice and the ability to feed some nice options._
_The inputs (balanced, unbalanced and the optional digital input) are selectable from the front._
_There will be a (balanced ?) line output on the back._
_This can be set to be adjustable or fixed to the input source._
_The basic version will have a manual volume control and a manual balance control._
_1st option is the remote control with motorized potentiometer for the volume and for input selecting._
_2nd option is a 128-step relais based volume, also together with the inputs remote controlled._
_Finally 1 of 6 digital input options may be chosen: USB/Opto/Coax with up to 96 or 192 kHz sample rate._
  
_We hope to release these new amps middle of 2014._
  
_Also there will be some nice priced but high featured Lake People DACs to be released soon_
_to establish Lake People even more as a "budget" solution under Violectric._
  
 Well, I'm waiting for the v281 without question


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## Xenophon

Wait is my advice...if you can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  At the very least the prices of the V200 on the used market will come down substantially.  I'm sticking with my V800/200 combo, have a speaker amp under way to power my hungriest beast (HE-6, the 200 powers it well but there's better to be had from even more power, curious about the specs on the upcoming model).
  
 Very happy with Violectric but with the new pricing they're entering in some serious heavy hitters' water, I'm very curious to see how the new units will stack up.
  
 Anyway, thanks for the info, I'm subscribed!


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## TwoEars

Nice!
  
 I thought the V281 was dead in the water for not hearing anything about it for so long.
  
 I even made a speculation thread about the V281 back in 2011!!!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/547859/new-violectric-amps-from-lake-people-coming-info-from-ceo-fried-riem
  
 The balanced one looks very promising!
  
 Is there an early adopter pre-order bonus program???


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## TontonJoK

YEEES, sell yours v200's on the used market !!!! :wink_face:


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## Xenophon

For those lacking the virtue of patience (I'm a platinum club member myself):  take a look on amazon.de
  
 If you hunt patiently you'll find an attractively priced one for sure, they pop up regularly there.  Or at thomann.de , they regularly clean house of demo units and it's possible to get a hefty discount.


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## TontonJoK

Too bad I have to stick with amazon.fr !! I see good other deals on amazon.com also but I can't order, RESTRICTION h34r:

Agree thomann is a very good store around here but I only see B stock to get the v200 less expensive 

Can't wait anymore !!!


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## Xenophon

Restrictions on amazon???  Really??  I have an account with amazon.co.uk but the same login and the same credit cards give me access to amazon.fr, .com, .de and .in.  I have'm ship things to my address in Europe as well as to India.  Only restriction I've faced is with some books for Kindle, those I can't purchase on any other site than amazon.com.  Perhaps they got so confused that they just gave up on me


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## TontonJoK

I have an account on amazon.com and every time I want to finish any orders by filling my address, I have a message saying that it's not possible to be sent to it 

It's sometime possible but only with international sellers on market place 
:confused_face_2:


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## TwoEars

I'm honestly surprised there's so little interest in this.
  
 The Ragnarok looks spectacular but I also know what violectric are capable of...
  
 EDIT: maybe this thread should be moved to High-End?
  
 I would be very interested in a blind test between the ragnarok and v281... on the HD800 please...


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## Xenophon

twoears said:


> I'm honestly surprised there's so little interest in this.
> 
> The Ragnarok looks spectacular but I also know what violectric are capable of...
> 
> ...


 
 I think it's simple:
  
 - Until quite recently:  no US representation/marketing and distribution network.
 - No active representation/sponsoring here on the site
 - No-hype buildup nor vapourware:  Fried Reim's a terrific engineer and a straight dealer:  ask the man a question and he answers in detail and in person.  Violectric is one of the few companies who publish meaningful technical detail.  Seems elementary but just take a look at the specs he publishes and compare to others: either they omit critical information or they publish impressive looking parameters but if you look closer the figure is established in an oddball way or so that it's actually meaningless
 - The present lineup is still very good but let's face it, it's become a bit outdated.  Part of this relates to the previously mentioned no BS/no vapourware remark, it's hard/foolhardy wishing to remain a virgin in a brothel. 
 - Pricing:  contrary to those who proudly proclaim 'made in the US/UK' but actually only do the final assembly and have all the rest mounted in China at vastly lower cost he actually does everything in-house.  I guess I don't need to point out the wage difference between a Chinese and a German worker.  At the time of purchase I personally checked if the 'Made in Germany' part was actually true.  If you want to maintain a certain profit margin, this drives up the cost significantly (labour component is huge).
  
 If I were him then for the new stuff I'd send my distributor over to sign a sponsorship deal/follow a couple of forums here, set up a loaner program and either boost the BS factor or stay the course and do aggressive technical comparisons with the competition.
  
 And I'd watch those Chinese...they're the guys to beat, not just on price but increasingly also quality-wise.  Many of them produce crap but there are some that have really great products (where they found the design is sometimes a different  matter).  Audio-Gd and La Figaro come to mind here.  If for instance you take a look at the wiring in a La Figaro tube amp, look at the specs and use the product then you wonder how it's possible that some 'European' manufacturers (meaning made in China but at rock bottom prices, then sold at an enormous premium) can survive, let alone sell their stuff at 3 times the price of a DV while it's technically inferior.


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## Maxvla

Speaking strictly of the Schitt/Vio comparison, there's virtually no China between the two of them, so I don't know what you are talking about. Just like Vio has as much done as possible in Germany, Schiit likewise sources as much as possible in the USA. Wages are probably still higher in Germany, but not nearly the delta as between there and China.

As for the previous amps, I liked them but felt they could be better for the price, even considering the wage differences. The V800 was a little disappointing, but for its age, respectable. The nearly doubling of price for the V281 before upgrades is kind of hard to take, but if the DAC performance of the addon is as good as the V800 but with usable USB now, it ends up being nearly the same price as a V800/V181 stack and the same size as well. I'm not sure I'm willing to go that far on an optional DAC yet. Though you only have USB and nothing else. The only optional anything I've ever heard that was quite good was the new M-Stage HPA-2's DAC. Surprisingly good for it's $40 addon cost.

And to prove I'm not just a Schiit fanboy, I honestly haven't really liked much of their gear. Their amps have been disappointing for the most part. The Mjolnir is good value, but isn't an ultimate performance machine. I brought one in to try but sent it back. The Bifrost is probably the only unit from them I had no regrets about. Very solid sound for the money. The Gungnir started out as better, but eventually I grew to dislike it greatly.


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## Xenophon

Where did I mention Schitt in my post??  I see...the quote...ok...well...I'm not referring to Schiit, what I wrote regards mainly the Violectric products and general remarks on the market.  I'm not a big fan of their products -those I've heard, they're not so common in Europe- but that's a different matter.  Couldn't say anything about their Ragnarok as I haven't heard it.
  
 My personal main point of criticism for the V200 is that it lacks a bit of transparency and soundstage, other than that I'm happy but we'll see how it stacks up compared to the F3 I have on order.


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## Norway

Cool! This is very interesting.
  
 But now Violectric should correct the typo in "RISC OF ELECTRICAL SHOCK", which is also printed on the rear of my V200. It's risk, not risc


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## TwoEars

norway said:


> Cool! This is very interesting.
> 
> But now Violectric should correct the typo in "RISC OF ELECTRICAL SHOCK", which is also printed on the rear of my V200. It's risk, not risc


 
  
 OCD much?


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## Advent75

fegefeuer said:


> measurements approximately 6 3/4" x 4" x 9" or 170 x 100 x 226 mm (W x H x D).






Intended to say thanks for adding dimensions.


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## Xenophon

Any news on power output and maximum voltage before clipping in various loads?  Curious to see the details, as I remarked earlier, at this pricing point there's some stiff competition around?


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## Fegefeuer

Will add specs once they are clear enough.


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## Xenophon

Ok, thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 btw: what's with the 'Fegefeuer' handle?


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## TwoEars

xenophon said:


> Ok, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think it means purgatory.


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## Xenophon

Yeah, I know (I'm part German and speak the language   was just wondering why he picked it


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## TwoEars

xenophon said:


> Yeah, I know (I'm part German and speak the language   was just wondering why he picked it


 
  
 He picked it because that's what sensible people would call our current state of living.
  
 But let's continue with the V281...


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## magiccabbage

So this is gonna be a DAC/preamp? Or just a pre amp


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## Viper2005

magiccabbage said:


> So this is gonna be a DAC/preamp? Or just a pre amp


 
 The DAC comes in an optional board that mounts inside the amp, just like the V200.


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## TwoEars

Can you tell us anything about the DAC part of the units?
  
 What chip is used? Is it the same dac as in the current V800?
  
 I'm also a little curious how the amp looks if you don't order with a dac.
  
 Thanks.


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## magiccabbage

twoears said:


> Can you tell us anything about the DAC part of the units?
> 
> What chip is used? Is it the same dac as in the current V800?
> 
> ...


 
 +1 - will it be a contender?


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## Viper2005

It's too early to tell what the specs are for the dac. .
However in the case of the v200, the dac was just something very basic.. not nearly as good as the v800.


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## N3ox

It's here: http://www.thomann.de/gb/violectric_usb_24_192_add_on_usb_module.htm
  
 And here are specs: "The first news is about the upgraded USB option. Apparently customer feedback indicates that people do want a quality USB input, making the device a viable all-in-one DAC/amp. Fried considers the current 24/96 solution to be pretty good but this new version will be "top notch". It's a 24/192 capable design based on the PCM1798 DAC and the Tenor TE8802 USB chipset (coaxial and optical models will also be available). Fried says they beefed up the analog output circuitry so it's a lot more sophisticated than the current version. Pricing will be higher, maybe double what the current option goes for. The target for release is "hopefully by the end of the year"."
  
 From: http://www.head-fi.org/t/551173/review-violectric-hpa-v200-amp/2325#post_9839397


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## Fegefeuer

just so you know, it's also already in the OP (about the PCM 1798 DAC).


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## TwoEars

PCM1798 is indeed a very good chip.
  
 With good implementation it should be able to compete against the best integrated dac-amp units.


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## daerron

I'm still really surprised they picked the Tenor 8802 USB chipset or have the drivers been sorted? The PCM1798 is a very detailed DAC, but was a bit bright with the PS Audio NuWave. If they can blend Violectric's smoothness with the detail of that DAC it could be a very nice combo. Still no pre-amp functionality though...


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## N3ox

Received the 24/192 USB module yesterday and installed it in my V100.
  
 Can't comment on sound neither post pictures yet (not authorized on the forum, too bad...) but build quality is top-notch.
  
 For those wondering, the module requires drivers to function on Mac OS & Windows.


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## roskodan

feel free to upload the photos elsewhere and link them here


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## N3ox

There you go:
  
 http://n3ox.free.fr/head-fi/photo1.jpg
 http://n3ox.free.fr/head-fi/photo2.jpg
 http://n3ox.free.fr/head-fi/photo3.jpg


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## D4rkst3EL

For some reason I can't find anywhere how these integrated dacs (both the 96 and 192 version) perform.


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## N3ox

Indeed they have not been thoroughly tested as far as I know...
  
 Trying to compare the 24/192 with my Meridian Explorer.


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## Xenophon

It uses the Tenor te8802L for usb translation, that's a reasonable chip but they don't provide p&p, their driver implementation sucks. This is why peachtree eventually stopped considering them in 2012. Wonder about the rest of the setup.


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## N3ox

Have not experienced any problem with the module so far.
  
 Everything seems to be fine with this Tenor TE8802L chip, at least on Mac OS 10.9.
  
 No pop/click/lag. Just the relais on the V100 which works fine.
  
 More on sound later.


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## Fegefeuer

added *preliminary brochure* in the OP


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## Ultrainferno

Interesting@


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## Poladise

surprised they havent stated the power output


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## Xenophon

poladise said:


> surprised they havent stated the power output


 
 +1, that's THE parameter I'm interested in (assuming the basic sound sig etc will remain the same).


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## TwoEars

xenophon said:


> +1, that's THE parameter I'm interested in (assuming the basic sound sig etc will remain the same).


 
  
 I'm guessing somewhere around powering three to five LCD-3's in parallell.
  
 Don't think you need to be too worried...


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## Xenophon

Not worried, I'm sure Vio got the design right, just VERY curious about the numbers.  Don't think we'll be seeing full-blown HE-6 driving power but let's be realistic, what headphone amplifier has the juice to drive these to the max they have to offer?  I still like them with my V200 though, so it's not a deal breaker and compared to 95% of other headphone amps (and to 99% if you discount those who get there by using stratagems that compromise on sound quality) they're plenty powerful, the HE-6 is a niche application and a very small niche at that.    It's been a long ongoing point of debate on the HE-6 thread, until recently I thought the speaker amp guys were just overdoing it.  But during a recent trip to Japan I had the opportunity to connect them to some -low power/low gain- speaker amps and as they say...I heard the sound and now I'm a believer.  
  
 But this is OT, I'm just very curious to learn more about the specs of the new Violectric models. And to try them pout for myself of course, though I don't see an upgrade in my immediate future.


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## Fegefeuer

poladise said:


> surprised they havent stated the power output


 
  
 soon


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## Advent75

"measurements approximately 6 3/4" x 4" x 9" or 170 x 100 x 226 mm (W x H x D)"  Vs Brochure numbers? Which dimensions are correct?


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## trhee

Pretty much the same. Those lengths in mm equates to 6.7"x3.9"x8.9". Off by a few mm's. I would assume the mm lengths are more accurate and the inches were just rounded up since it's a German company.



advent75 said:


> "measurements approximately 6 3/4" x 4" x 9" or 170 x 100 x 226 mm (W x H x D)"  Vs Brochure numbers? Which dimensions are correct?




Sent from my SHV-E300S using Tapatalk


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## trhee

Nevermind. I just saw that the brochure has completely different dimensions.

Sent from my SHV-E300S using Tapatalk


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## Advent75

Believe brochure's depth is stated as 12" which is ~ 3" deeper than initially stated depth.


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## BeyerMonster

I almost snarfed my coffee when I saw this since I just placed an order for a V200/V800 combo _*last Friday*_.
 Then again, despite some previous replies calling for V200's going up for sale, I did an Audiogon search for Violectric and not finding V200s for sale.
  
I love the sound from my Placette Passive Linestage with it's 120+ settings and have passively* been looking for a stepped attenuator that provided more than the 24 positions on a HeadAmp GS-X mk2, so kudos to Lake People for providing this as an option. That being said, I'd have a lot more trouble swallowing the price of their new products sight unseen without wanting to research more comparisons since that starts pushing into range of other highly regarded SS products such as the Auralic Taurus and HeadAmp GS-X mk2.
  
 * - pun intended
  


> To save costs V220 will be the base of V281.


 
I wonder how we should interpret this. IIRC, the balanced V181 and single-ended V200 are pretty similar, but have different output designs and power supply. So maybe this means the V281 will be a strict upgrade from the V220, where the balanced-capable V181 generally seems to be a side-grade or down-grade from the single-ended V200?


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## Xenophon

My advice if you paid full retail and still can (owning the same combo), if you can wait, either cancel the order or request a discount.  You'll be able to get them substantially cheaper in a couple of months.  Don't get me wrong, I like the setup but it's a simple fact that an upgrade was long due and it makes little sense to pay the full price now.


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## BeyerMonster

xenophon said:


> My advice if you paid full retail and still can (owning the same combo), if you can wait, either cancel the order or request a discount.  You'll be able to get them substantially cheaper in a couple of months.  Don't get me wrong, I like the setup but it's a simple fact that an upgrade was long due and it makes little sense to pay the full price now.


 
 I ordered the demo model that was in the specials section of violectric-usa, so it was $250+ off list price. I somehow managed to miss comments about the USB input being subpar until today, but given the discount, I might just give it a try anyway.


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## Xenophon

Yeah, the usb implementation is the weak spot. Only point of criticism I have about the V200 for the rest is that it's not the best in detail retrieval. V800 is really very good, I was looking to different brands for an upgrade but came to the conclusion that in order to do significantly better I'd have to spend at least 3 kUsd on the Dac alone, not worth it for me, especially as DAC technology still evolves fairly quickly.


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## Fegefeuer

beyermonster said:


> I wonder how we should interpret this. IIRC, the balanced V181 and single-ended V200 are pretty similar, but have different output designs and power supply. So maybe this means the V281 will be a strict upgrade from the V220, where the balanced-capable V181 generally seems to be a side-grade or down-grade from the single-ended V200?


 
  
 It sounds kinda negative but it quite isn't and you're spot on. V220 is a clear upgrade from the V200 and the V281 is basically two V220s. It'll outdo the V181 significantly.


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## TwoEars

fegefeuer said:


> It sounds kinda negative but it quite isn't and you're spot on. V220 is a clear upgrade from the V200 and the V281 is basically two V220s. It'll outdo the V181 significantly.


 
  
 Is there anything that can be said about the voicing of these amps? The V200 is quite famous for having a full bodied warm character that paired well with the HD800 for instance.


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## BeyerMonster

beyermonster said:


> I almost snarfed my coffee when I saw this since I just placed an order for a V200/V800 combo _*last Friday*_.


 
 Almost feel bad posting this in a thread about the new Violectric gear, but I got my V200/V800 stack about 2.5 hours ago.
Sounds great. Any buyer's remorse that I may have had is completely gone.
  
If the new stuff is "more of the same, but better", it's going to be great.


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## Xenophon

Well, it IS very good, only question is how much more the new gear might bring by comparison for a bit more cash. Out of curiosity, what other dac/amp combos did you try?


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## BeyerMonster

xenophon said:


> Well, it IS very good, only question is how much more the new gear might bring by comparison for a bit more cash. Out of curiosity, what other dac/amp combos did you try?


 
*tl;dr version:*
 First impressions are that this stuff is great, but I have nothing meaningful to compare it to, in terms of a modern competitor that is for-sale. So feel free to call BS on everything I say. Everything was observed in the span of about 5 hours on headphones that I've only had for about a week, and zero burn-in time on the V200. V800 was a demo model, so presumably it has been broken in already. I'm having too much fun listening to music to really tinker with any more inputs/settings right now.
  
*long version:*
Most of my "critical listening" in the past was with my full-size gear (most of which is listed in my profile), and very little critical listening has been done on my cans. While my can comparison systems are completely outmatched, I'm VERY familiar with the material as I've listened to most of it for years (decades in some cases?) and recently for months on end at work(been too lazy to rip CDs in a while). The following are things that jumped out immediately when using the LCD-XC+Violectric Stack in comparison to a week of LCD-XC+ALO Pan Am and a year+ with my work laptop piping sound into my Beyer stack(no "proper" DAC):

Percussion sounds great. Cymbals are distinct, snares sound like snares, and impact is present in spades. I thought the XCs were bass thin, especially in comparison the LCD-3, but the punch is back (Ex. Sound City Players - You Can't Fix This w/ Stevie Nicks, David Guetta - Nothing But the Beat - Titanium, Foo Fighters - The Colour and the Shape - My Hero)
I felt as though the LCD-XCs had a bit of upper mid/treble harshness which I no longer find present (Ex. Aqua - Aquarium - Barbie Girl*). It was bad enough when driven by a Meridian Prime, that I almost changed my mind completely about the purchase, but since it wasn't there with the ALO Studio Six, I figured I could find a workaround. 
Pianos sound like pianos again  (Ex. Tori Amos - Little Earthquakes - Happy Phantom)
Haven't looked at my Audiophile dictionary in a while, so can't think of the term, but it's much easier to hear performers playing together instead of where one performer/instrument takes turns at the forefront at any given time. (Ex. Metallica - Four Horsemen, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon Soundtrack - A Wedding Interrupted)
  
My non-can gear is in my profile, but it's also located downstairs. My head gear is all upstairs. At some point I'll move some things up or some things down so that I can compare the V800 and Gungnir against my SCD-XA9000ES which is the real test.
  
 Other recent comparisons:
 I originally demo'd the LCD-X, LCD-XC, and LCD-3 with a Meridian Prime and an ALO Audio Studio Six in a noisy environment (~2hrs total at SXSW Music Gear expo), spending the least time with the LCD-X. The Studio Six sounded amazing, but I knew it was out of my budget so I purposely limited my time on it to try and prevent making my budget fit the amp.  The Meridian Prime I felt was OK with the LCD-3, but was kinda harsh with the LCD-XC. In fact, I almost didn't want to buy the XCs anymore after hearing them on the Meridian Prime.
  
 Also recently listened to some LCD-2's driven by a laptop going into a Bryston stack BDA-2/BHA-1 with Kimber Silver Streaks at the Austin Audio Fest in a not-so-loud-not-so-quiet environment. I was generally impressed by that setup, but they also wanted to use that room to demo Kimber cables on some full range speakers, so I only got maybe 15 minutes in. I wanted to go Bryston, but opted to buy the Schiit and Violectric stacks since I need a home and work setup anyway. Didn't want to fall in love with a $3000+ stack and have to buy 2 of em.
  
 On the way are 2 Schiit stacks and a bunch of non-exotic interconnects made with Mogami cabling from proaudiola. So it'll probably be a few weeks before I can reach any meaningful comparisons/conclusions, which are of course still completely subjective.
  
 * - don't laugh, I use it as my harshness test, but yes I like some EuroTrash DancePop mixed in with my Metal and Classical.
  
 P.S. All listening was done with:

stock Audeze headphone cables
10+ year old BetterCables.com unbalanced interconnects (first thing I could find that wasn't already plugged in)
Asus Xonar DX feeding digital data via optical to V800 with Volume Pot maxed and resampling set to Best
V200/V800 dipswitches at defaults where applicable.


----------



## Megalomaniak

Maaaaaaaan, when these will be released


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I am definitely interested in the V281.  I have a V200, and I'm looking at upgrading to something with a similar sound signature, more power, the balanced outputs, etc.  
  
 I won't need the DAC module, but the motorized/stepped volume controls sound like interesting options.  
  
 It sounds so far like this could be a great all around amp for all my headphones.


----------



## Megalomaniak

red jacket mike said:


> I am definitely interested in the V281.  I have a V200, and I'm looking at upgrading to something with a similar sound signature, more power, the balanced outputs, etc.
> 
> I won't need the DAC module, but the motorized/stepped volume controls sound like interesting options.
> 
> It sounds so far like this could be a great all around amp for all my headphones.


 
  
 What Fried told me:
  
  
_"It´s not only about output power, it´s also about output voltage._
_ _
_While V181 offers “only” standard voltage in SE mode because of “standard” operating voltage of +/- 18 V,_

_V281 offers the same voltage like V200 in SE mode._

_In balanced mode the output voltage will exceed 35 Veff which is kind of dangerous )_
_ _
_While owners of V181 only had 2 x  “normal” amp in SE mode,_
_The owners of V281 will have true 2 x V200 in SE mode and an extraordinary amp in balanced mode."_
  
 So yeah, this thing will be a beast.


----------



## roskodan

hm, since i've the conductor i found having a selectable gain from the from panel is a must for it to be usable
  
 can't really see myself using dip-switches again
  
 there must be a reason why it's not implemented in the new violectric amps


----------



## Xenophon

megalomaniak said:


> What Fried told me:
> 
> 
> _"It´s not only about output power, it´s also about output voltage._
> ...


 
 I have to admit that I don't understand what is meant here.  V200 is a SE amp.  It's logical that in a true balanced setup the voltage output will double, no?
  
 Anyway...from what I understood Megalomaniak has a V281 on pre-order.  I salute you for your readiness to take one for the team 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and look forward to you impressions and comparison.


----------



## BeyerMonster

xenophon said:


> I have to admit that I don't understand what is meant here.  V200 is a SE amp.  It's logical that in a true balanced setup the voltage output will double, no?


 
 Disclaimer: I'm not an electrical engineer, but I play on one TV.
  
 Internal voltages:
From the V181 manual, it uses +/-18V rails for everything.
 From the V200 manual, it uses +/-18V rails for the preamp stage and +/-30V rails for the output stage.
  
Output voltages:
 http://www.violectric.de/Pages/en/technical-data.php
  
 So this is one of the many reasons why output/voltage is dependent on load when comparing the V181/V200.
  
 Assuming the page I found on Google is correct, the conversion from Veff to Vpp is as follows:
Veff = (Vpp / 2) * (0.707)^2
  
 For reference, the Schiit Mjolnir puts out 45Vpp into 32Ohms. So I think that would be a Veff of ~11.25V.
  
 I don't know which of these figures are peak vs RMS, and it's been a long time since I've studied this stuff, so take everything I said here with a grain of salt.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Megalomaniak

xenophon said:


> I have to admit that I don't understand what is meant here.  V200 is a SE amp.  It's logical that in a true balanced setup the voltage output will double, no?
> 
> Anyway...from what I understood Megalomaniak has a V281 on pre-order.  I salute you for your readiness to take one for the team
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, sure, this was a little like a "ohmygodletstry", I was tired of researching for a top level solid state amp, too many options, all in the +1600-1700 area and suddenly when I was about to pull the trigger in the V200 amp which I love, I came across this post and "ohmygodletstry" haha.
  
 I hope I dont regret the decision 
  


beyermonster said:


> Disclaimer: I'm not an electrical engineer, but I play on one TV.
> 
> Internal voltages:
> From the V181 manual, it uses +/-18V rails for everything.
> ...


 
  
 Thats pretty much it, I think this V281 will equal the power to the typical Mjolnir or Taurus MKII but with the Violectric sound signature. Dont mind that much about its power, but its resolution and quality.


----------



## Poladise

megalomaniak said:


> Thats pretty much it, I think this V281 will equal the power to the typical Mjolnir or Taurus MKII but with the Violectric sound signature. Dont mind that much about its power, but its resolution and quality.


 
  
 Yeah, having adequate power isnt a concern with this thing. I'm hoping it will have more resolution and work better with the LCD-3, because many say V200's not a good match.


----------



## BeyerMonster

poladise said:


> Yeah, having adequate power isnt a concern with this thing. I'm hoping it will have more resolution and work better with the LCD-3, because many say V200's not a good match.


 
 I haven't seen too many negative opinions on the V200 with LCD-3 which is why I bought it, but I did primarily intend to pair it with my LCD-XC.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Time for some power specs:
  
 V220 (unbalanced mode)

 into *600 ohms load* = 21 Veff = +28,5 dBu = *720 mW*
 into *50 ohms load* = 13 Veff = +24,5 dBu = *3300 mW*
  
 V281 (balanced mode)

 into *600 ohms load* = 40 Veff = +34,2 dBu = *2700 mW*
 into *50 ohms load* = 14Veff = +25 dBu = *4000 mW*


----------



## roskodan

WOW... suddenly a a feeling of regret about selling my he-6
  
 is this Watt per channel or both channels combined?
  
 rms or peak power? i gues it's rms=Veff


----------



## Xenophon

Veff = Vrms and I'm guessing it'll be total, not WPC.  In balanced it looks impressive in 50 Ohm, for 600 Ohm impedance loads it looks downright impressive all across the board.
  
 Still, specifically for the HE-6 I've a feeling it'll be just a bit south of optimal even fully balanced although it won't be such a big issue as even with the V200 it's already very listenable.
  
 Will the sound signature be the same or did something change in that respect?  I'd want to audition it first and do an A/B with my present V800/V200 combo.  Just a bit more clarity would be absolute perfection.  
  
 OK, I'm nitpicking, I know.  But considering that the V281 will come at about 1350 EUR without VAT (so about 1600 EUR  or  the equivalent of 2200 USD taxes included in the EU) for the basic version without remote or DAC-module I think nitpicking is allowed.  That amount of cheddar can already purchase serious competition such as an Auralic Taurus.  Interesting times!


----------



## Poladise

fegefeuer said:


> Time for some power specs:
> 
> V220 (unbalanced mode)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Surprisingly similar output at 50 ohms. Wonder if it'll be worth spending extra to get the balanced version if you're only using LCDs.


----------



## BeyerMonster

poladise said:


> Surprisingly similar output at 50 ohms. Wonder if it'll be worth spending extra to get the balanced version if you're only using LCDs.


 
  
 I guess that means at Audeze impedances, the design is current-limited and the voltage rails are plenty high enough.


----------



## fdg

First data from V220 / V281
  
 V220 (unbalanced mode)

 into *600 ohms load* = 21 Veff = +28,5 dBu = *720 mW*
 into *50 ohms load* = 13 Veff = +24,5 dBu = *3300 mW*
  
 V281 (balanced mode)

 into *600 ohms load* = 40 Veff = +34,2 dBu = *2700 mW*
 into *50 ohms load* = 14Veff = +25 dBu = *4000 mW*
  
*Veff means Vrms, data was taken both channels driven !!*
  
 All transistorized amps from Violectric are current limited.
 This is neccessary because otherwise the output voltage of 40 Veff into an 8 ohms load would mean 200 W !!
 And the power supply should be able to deliver this. 
 To avoid heavy gear and large cases the current limitation ensures that 25 +15 W transformers are more than sufficient for V281.

 It is hard to design an amp which is able to produce a very high output voltage swing for high impedance headphones on one hand,
 and relative high output current for low impedance headphones on the other hand - while additional features like minimum noise, lowest distortion, highest slew rate and widest frequency range are maintained.
 Also I dont think that it is really neccessary to have such high ouput voltage and such high output current to drive a headphone - but there are people out there driving a Dodge Viper in a speed limited country.

 With V220 / V281 we want to show that ONE amp is able to drive ANY headphone to the full, be it HD800 or HE6 or K1000. Gear made for the "Autobahn" cant be wrong on other roads 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .
  
 This is the technical approach - if the sound fits your needs you can only judge by yourself.
  
 If there are additional questions - you´re welcome !
  
 Greetz
  
 Fried Reim


----------



## Xenophon

Hi Fried,
  
 Thanks for the update.  I know it's a stupid question that can only be answered after auditioning and I don't know how you went about the implementation and the transistors etc...but would you say the 'signature' is about the same out of the V281 via the usb module as what you'd get from a V200 fed from a V800?  That's the main thing I'm curious about now that the power specs have been published.  For the rest it'll just be a question of weighing the wallet and deciding I guess, I'd sign with my eyes closed for the engineering part.
  
 Thanks and congratulations, if you managed to squeeze this into a package while keeping the noise floor as low as before with the extra power on board...respect!


----------



## fdg

V220 / V281 share a similar sound signature as V200.
 Although we have new add-on DACs for our headphone amps offering 24/192 technology, a better converter and enhanced analog output circuitry - DAC V800 is still ahead !
 As a result V220 / V281 with one of the new add-on DACs will come closer to the sound signature of V200 + V800 but for my opinion will not meet it.
  
 If you want superb D/A conversion and a (nearly) perfect unbalanced headphone amp stay with HPA V200 + DAC V800
 If you want more flexibility concerning inputs/outputs, some more hopefully helpful features and a perfect headphone amp go for V220 / V281.
 This is also true with the 24/192 add-on DACs which offer a far more than average solution.
 If you want it both, the ultimate DAC and the ultimate heaphone amp the only way to proceed is V220 / V281 + V800 - sorry for your wallet )
  
 The noise floor from V220 / V281 is still outstanding low but 3-4 dB higher as the one from V200.
 This is due to tons of more electronic in the signal path.
  
 Greetz
  
 Fried


----------



## Xenophon

Thanks a lot Fried, to all those reading this:  you see it in the response given above but, being an owner of a V800/V200 combo I can guarantee 2 things if you're considering purchasing a Violectric product:
  
 a) Contrary to many competitors (and I've reviewed/auditioned some, trust me), Violectric and its management are absolutely zero ******** and the specs you read/answers you get are totally on the level and truthful.
 b) Engineering and quality are top notch.  The packaging is nice but the contents/components are truly superior and no corners are cut.
  
 The V800 is imo VERY hard to beat, a lot of functionality in that DAC, I particularly like the hardware implementation of the sampling options available  which gives you total control.  I'm confident in saying that doing better in any way that actually means anything will cost A LOT more money than its price and some people here like Project86 who have reviewed more DAC's than almost anyone will happily confirm that statement.
  
 So I'd say...if you like the sound signature of the range...give that banking account a healthy wring and go for it!


----------



## Megalomaniak

fdg said:


> V220 / V281 share a similar sound signature as V200.
> Although we have new add-on DACs for our headphone amps offering 24/192 technology, a better converter and enhanced analog output circuitry - DAC V800 is still ahead !
> As a result V220 / V281 with one of the new add-on DACs will come closer to the sound signature of V200 + V800 but for my opinion will not meet it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good to hear, I loved the V200 sound signature.
  
 For the money I dont mind going to the V281 over the V220, V281 gives an extra balanced output over the already excelent SE the V220 seems to have.
  
 The output power is incredible, Im pretty sure 99% of the headphones are fine with the SE mode, but I wanna try them both!!
  
 I will post pictures and a review when I get my unit.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I was interested in the V220/281, but the info a few posts back about the noise floor being a bit higher might be a deal breaker; a dead silent background is important to me.  Maybe I'll just keep the V200 I have, for now.


----------



## Xenophon

The difference is mathematical, for practical purposes it doesn't matter as even the 'noisier' background will still sound dead silent.


----------



## Fegefeuer

It'll be dead silent. Don't worry.


----------



## Megalomaniak

red jacket mike said:


> I was interested in the V220/281, but the info a few posts back about the noise floor being a bit higher might be a deal breaker; a dead silent background is important to me.  Maybe I'll just keep the V200 I have, for now.


 
  
 V200 is rated in -100db noise floor, V90 is rated in -102db which seems better but we dont lose ourselves about it.
  
 V220 / V281 will be around -96-98db which is dead silent. I tell you, Matrix M-Stage its -95db at 0 gain, and I run it at +10db which puts it round -80db noise, and I assure you this thing is dead silent too. Even @ +20db gain.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I guess I shouldn't have been concerned.  My V-200 is completely silent, and I would assume that an upgrade by the same company wouldn't change that.  I will be interested in getting one of the new models, with all of the options except the DAC.  I currently use my V200 with a W4S DAC-2, which I'm very happy with also.


----------



## TwoEars

Do you have any prototype pictures or internal shots yet?


----------



## TontonJoK

Black background is also a quality from my lake people G100 and it's so enjoyable


----------



## Fegefeuer

We'll soon have photos, stay tuned.


----------



## roskodan

please tell me there is going to be a front panel gain selector
  
 i mean, it's branded as a universal amp, yet you have to turn off, unplug everything and mess with dip switches on the back to select between gain settings ? really ?


----------



## TwoEars

I have never ever seen the need to change the dipswitches and I've used my V200 with both IEMs and planars.


----------



## i019791

roskodan said:


> please tell me there is going to be a front panel gain selector
> 
> i mean, it's branded as a universal amp, yet you have to turn off, unplug everything and mess with dip switches on the back to select between gain settings ? really ?


 
 A front panel gain selector would be better, but I have found that changing the gain does not really require unplugging everything and is done within a few seconds. No issue, unless perhaps you switch several times per day between very sensitive & very insensitive cans.


----------



## roskodan

twoears said:


> I have never ever seen the need to change the dipswitches and I've used my V200 with both IEMs and planars.


 
  
 what do you mean? because you don't have or use such a feature than it's useless for everyone and nobody should consider or expect such basic and omnipresent, from low to mid to high end, portable to desktop, feature on a 1000+ EUR high end desktop unit?
  


i019791 said:


>


 
  

  
 you can clearly figure out which is more convenient


----------



## i019791

I can figure. It happens that I have easy access to the back of the unit in my desk.


----------



## Xenophon

roskodan said:


> please tell me there is going to be a front panel gain selector
> 
> i mean, it's branded as a universal amp, yet you have to turn off, unplug everything and mess with dip switches on the back to select between gain settings ? really ?


 
 I don't find it to be a big deal to change the switches but then of course I have access to the back of my units, which is handy as I sometimes switch from XLR to RCA between my V800 and either the V200 and my tube amp..  Also, fiddling with gain is not something one does every 2 minutes (I'd hope).  Granted that front panel access would have been easier but this is not a deal breaker by far for me.  Or at least, when I had to choose between my Vio stack and a Burson conductor, the decision was quickly made (and the position of the dipswitches never even was an element, to be honest).


----------



## roskodan

anyway, trust me on this one, if the v200/220/281 had a gain button on the front all of you would enjoy the amp much more
  
 ok, the v200 form factor is restricted, and it came earlier, but now having  5-6 buttons when just 3 (inputs, outputs, gain) would have been enough, including the gain too, which is instead omitted !
  
 i simply do not get it, the amps are clearly not budget, entry level, it clearly is not something that will benefit the user, why defend such an omission?


----------



## Viper2005

It's not gain, it's PRE-gain.   That's why it's beside the inputs.


----------



## roskodan

nice one, i loled


----------



## Xenophon

Not defending it, just saying that it's not essential to me, just like the second headphone out on the V200 is -to me- not a feature I use.  The gain dipswitches only get touched -sometimes- while listening to my HE-6.  For the HE-500 and HD-800 volume pot travel on the standard setting is perfect.  If you want to talk about inconvenient dipswitches then I'd mention the V800 with its internal jumpers.  I'd use those more than the gain on my V200 to be honest.
  
 Anyway, for the foreseeable future I'm set with the V800/V200, got a speaker amp for the 6 (and the rest should I want to), and a separate tube headphone amp, no intention of 'trading up'.  I'm sure quality of the new products will be excellent but the pricing is not cheap by any means and if/when I get another dac/amp for headphones then I think I'll go for something just a bit more neutral, resolving and  'lighter' in sound signature.  No criticism of the V200 but the slightly warm tone and relative lack of resolution are  to me and my tastes  its single points of weakness.


----------



## Fegefeuer

So last night I sent Hans in, a highly-skilled water Ninja from zhe great lake of Bodensee, look what he found:


----------



## Megalomaniak

Seeeeeeeeeeeeeexy


----------



## TwoEars

Beastly!
   
Lots of power under the hood, that's for sure. This thing should drive just about anything!

  
 I see you had to scratch your heads a bit to make everything fit!


----------



## Fegefeuer

41 stepped volume control - will come motorized via remote control and of course in a classic version.


----------



## roskodan

hopefully someone had the chance to attend munich high end 2014 and can give some first impressions


----------



## Fegefeuer

yep, here some impressions from the very well equipped Violectric stand:
  
 Mr. Reim had all the powerhouses from Sennheiser, Hifiman, AKG, Audeze, Fostex, Beyerdynamic etc.
  
  
 Let's take a look at the silver V281
  

  
 Black front
  

  
  
 Black V220
  

  
 HE-560 to listen to via V281/V220
  

  
 back
  

  
 Remote control, could be fully tested and works like a charm.


----------



## Viper2005

Wow the silver looks great.  I was going to get the black 281 but I might reconsider after seeing those pics!  
 But the big question is, How Do They Sound??


----------



## roskodan

IM  -  PRES  -  SIONS !!!!    IM  -  PRES  -  SIONS !!!!    IM  -  PRES  -  SIONS !!!!
  
  
 p.s. i guess the one set to -12db pre-gain is the V281


----------



## TheManko

I owned the V200 and SPL Auditor at the same time for about 2 years. Maybe I'll end up buying both the Phonitor 2 and V281. I like amps too much for my own good.


----------



## TwoEars

I agree, the silver one looks fantastic. Love the black on silver controls.


----------



## Xenophon

My vote also goes to the silver version...but I'd love to hear some impressions.  Was there also a HE-6 to play with?


----------



## project86

Ooooo, silver looks KILLER with those black knobs to set it off. Thanks for the pics..... Drool....


----------



## BeyerMonster

fegefeuer said:


> yep, here some impressions from the very well equipped Violectric stand:
> 
> Mr. Reim had all the powerhouses from Sennheiser, Hifiman, AKG, Audeze, Fostex, Beyerdynamic etc.


 
 Thanks for posting! Very tempting!
  
P.S. Fegefeuer, I notice that you seem to get lots of great info fairly regularly. Are you a Lake People/Violectric employee or just another fan of their products? If so, are you supposed to be tagged as "Member of the Trade"? Confirmation that he's just another fan like me!


----------



## fdg

Hello everybody.
  
 As you can see some posts earlier we managed to show our ready working HPA V220 and HPA V281 during HiEnd show in Munich.
 Good to hear that most american guys here appreciate the silver front panels - because the german / european potential customers seem to pefer the black ones ! 
 Everybody was very impressed about the look and feel and even more about the sound - specially from V281 paired with balanced headphones.
 V281 clearly showed that the V200 amp technology inside a balanced amp is a gigantic step ahead compared to a more simple solution like V181.
 But also V220 was found to be a comfortable solution for those looking for a smart pre-amp with powerful and superior sounding headhone amp.
  
 The setup:
 There was a DAC V800 serving as a D/A converter for digital signals coming from a notebook and a CD player.
 The balanced analog outputs were fed into a Lake People active balanced splitter ANA-TOOL F844 ( 2 x 1 in 4) and than distributed to V100, V181, V200 and V281.
 The V90 was fed from the unbalanced outputs from V800, the pregain from V90 was set to +6 dBu to have nearly matching levels.
 The V220 was fed from V281 which was set to fixed line outputs - as we had to face level mismatches inside V220 and V281 the Pre-Gain from V220 was set to -12 dBu to have matching levels.
  
 Both units operated perfectly, of course V281 was of more public interest and ran with up to 3 headphones connected all day long.
 We feared a little bit a heat problem for V281 with such low impedance loads but it was good to see that no amp under these circustances ever showed a temperature problem or even unusual case temperature.
  
 We had several excellent headphones from major brands to show the performance of our amps independent of the make or the specs of the headphones.
 Unfortunately from Hifi Man we had only the brand new HE560 (brilliant !!) but no HE6.
 But two guests brought their K1000 with them and were very impressed about the ability of V281 to drive this headphone with ease.
 One of them pre-ordered directly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There are few minor things to adjust for the series production:
 1. we had set the balanced control to +/- 2 dB with is far to less and we will change this to +/- 6 dB
 2. the analog line levels on the back outputs have to be adjusted to proper levels 
  
  
 @ BeyerMonster:
  
 Fegefeuer is just fan of Violectric products and purchased several headphone amps in the last years.
 He is no employee or share holder of Violectric or Lake People - simply a big supporter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Greetz,
  
 Fried Reim


----------



## daerron

Looks fabulous both silver and black units, but I'd probably settle for silver! The machining on those face plates are also a work of art and the build looks excellent.
  
 Will Violectric launch a silver faceplate V800 to match the silver V281/V220 look?


----------



## fdg

The manucaturer of the front panels told me that they bought new diamond tools specially for milling our front panels and also that these are made on a totaly new machine purchase for 350.000 Euro 500.000 $ .
  
 We are also thinking of new silver front panels for V800 !


----------



## Megalomaniak

I cant wait to sit in my room with my V281 hooked to my balanced LCD-2 and have a listen!!! Also, I sent an email to change my preorder from black front to silver front panel, I love that Silver panel, absolutely.


----------



## BeyerMonster

Thanks for the update Fried!
  
 P.S. I still prefer the monochrome black.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yeah, I'm just a fan of the design principles and ethos and of course the sound. 
  
 I can tell you that the feel/haptics of these amps is top notch, as familiar as with the V200 and lesser models, only much grander and imposing. The volume knob is one heavy single piece, very firm and secure, and it needs to be. Plenty of High End units I tested on the show have rather loose knobs, for frickin' 1000+ Dollars. Unacceptable. 
 The front panels are strong and heavy and in one piece, cut with finesse and precision like the victims of the Fookin' Legend of Gin Alley. The units are indeed like a V200/V800 combo in height but much deeper. 
  
 Thermal design  is no problem, these amps were running for hours already when I visited with multiple headphones connected and the units were just warm. 
  
 I like to refrain from sound impressions on a well-visited show like this as the ambience level doesn't meet the criteria of a good impression and open headphones like the HD 800 are especially vulnerable. I checked out a few headphones I know and listened to the V281 unit for a while. What struck me was the tight iron grip on the bass of the TH-900. I am very familiar with that phone and though it theoretically belongs to the easier to drive headphones the bass part of it demands a quality amp. It needs tight control and balance and it shone on the V281, effortlessly while the volume knob was laughing at me. IIRC the knob was at 8 o'clock, being loud enough and I'm never the type to drown ambience with the knob, I have a good feeling of volume control with regard to possible hearing damage but I am not a low volume listener.
  
 On another note: The HE-560 is amazingly articulate, well-defined in imaging and the bass does what HE-400/500 didn't - yet having volume, tactile impact and the precision/texture - clearly a winner to me and the only new headphone to create a little wow effect. The built needs to be improved and it will - listened to it both at Hifiman and Violectric and it was impressive. Can't say the same about the Oppo...


----------



## project86

Thanks for the info. I'm envious of your time spent there.... sounds very fun.


----------



## fdg

some more impressions from HiEnd 2014


----------



## roskodan

HAHA classic ! As expected from a German Biker !
  


fdg said:


> some more impressions from HiEnd 2014


 
  
 Mr. Reim must have been a model or actor for sure


----------



## Xenophon

I'll go with the actor part 
Not an American but still prefer the silver look, btw.


----------



## roskodan

i agree the silver is really a nice fresh addition
  
 however getting the black, photo realistic, as it looks in real life, is quite a challenge
  
 http://www.headfonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/vio_94Q1409.jpg
 http://www.headfonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/vio_94Q1424.jpg
 http://www.headfonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/vio_94Q1421.jpg
  
 black with golden feets looks really nice


----------



## Megalomaniak

I changed my order, from black panel to silver one


----------



## roskodan

you can choose the feet color too


----------



## TwoEars

I think they should make a wacky color as well.
  
 The silver and black look great, they really do. The thing is just everyone does silver and black these days.
  
 How about a really crazy color. How about purple? or lime green? or gold?
  
 Something to really stand out from the sea of black and silver components is usually good for attracting customers.


----------



## project86

I like the idea of a gold or "champagne" colored faceplate. Kinda like Marantz does (and some others too). Would I personally buy one in that color? Nope. But that's because it wouldn't match any of my other stuff. If I intended to get the V281 with built in DAC, and use it as my only component aside from headphones and a laptop..... then I'd seriously consider gold.


----------



## roskodan

^^yes but that would be more expensive, usually that's done to attract customers to cheaper products, but maybe they could charge more for such a custom order, i like the idea of gold, hard gold 24k, that would be popular on the arabian peninsula 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 btw i really like the crimson color i saw on the headamp amp
  
 and the v200 finish despite being black, it's of a nice mate fine grainy texture, like some fine stone or marble, which reminds me of the had-maestral tube amps series


----------



## project86

Yep, red can be nice too if it's done right. Same with blue even. Those aren't for everyone but could be great for specific applications. 
  
 And yes, the "body" of the Violectric gear has that nice Nextel coating (fun fact - Nextel was originally developed by 3M for NASA, as an interior surface for the Space Shuttle). It's unique and looks/feels great. I assume the new models have the same thing.


----------



## roskodan

one thing i didn't mention previously, but which was troubling me with the v200/v800 is that even when stacked together, when plugging the cans into the v200 i had to hold it with a hand so it doesn't move backwards, guess the feet were not really gripping, had some kind of cheap sponge underneath, ofc the low weight of the devices probably contributing the most
  
 and the nextel feel and visual appeal was ok, perhaps a little darker shade for the black one would fit better, actually i saw a lot of color option for it on the manufacturer site


----------



## BeyerMonster

roskodan said:


> one thing i didn't mention previously, but which was troubling me with the v200/v800 is that even when stacked together, when plugging the cans into the v200 i had to hold it with a hand so it doesn't move backwards, guess the feet were not really gripping, had some kind of cheap sponge underneath, ofc the low weight of the devices probably contributing the most


 
 IMO, that's a complete non issue. Almost every lightweight device I've ever owned is like that. No reason to purposely make things heavier just for that purpose.


----------



## roskodan

it's hard to believe you prefer the scarce, slippery, cheap padding of the feet that comes with the v200/v800, and having to hold the devices, rather than some better quality with more grip solution that would easily fix the "non issue", especially when stacking the devices, not to mention we are talking about 1k+USD toys


----------



## BeyerMonster

roskodan said:


> btw i really like the crimson color i saw on the headamp amp


 
  I assume you're talking about the red GS-X mk2(http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/04/11/headamp-gsx-mk2/). Definitely not for me as I'd prefer a dark blue, but I agree it looks very pretty. Was hoping I would see it in person at a meet in a few weeks, but alas my plans were foiled.
  
 Quote:


roskodan said:


> it's hard to believe you prefer the scarce, slippery, cheap padding of the feet that comes with the v200/v800, and having to hold the devices, rather than some better quality with more grip solution that would easily fix the "non issue", especially when stacking the devices, not to mention we are talking about 1k+USD toys


 
 I guess I just don't spend that much time plugging and unplugging cans, and when I do, I can still easily do it with one hand. One index finger on the edge of the front plate does the trick quite easily. I realize the Mjolnir is actually a cheaper device (~750 USD), but it has the same problem even thought it's much larger/heavier.
  
 I realized my other post sounded a bit harsher than I had intended. I just don't want to end up with a heavier device with a higher cost purely for more desk stability while plugging/unplugging cables. If it shifted during normal use just from the weight of my cabling, that would be another story entirely.


----------



## Xenophon

If you guys have money to burn you can have it custom Nextel-coated in a range of colours but due to the finish nature forget about glossy.  
  
 I stack my V200 and V800.  Aesthetically I'm not awed by the feet but well, they're feet...gotta draw the line somewhere.  At least they offer a good contact surface area and don't scratch.  They don't bother me as far as 'grip' is concerned but I have to say that I'm careful and exert some pressure on the top when swapping cables/headphones.
  
 With the present V200 I only have 2 'issues'.  Number one is not really an issue but I have absolutely zero use for the 2nd headphone out.  And the other thing which is more a question of taste than anything else is that it's not the ultimate in detail retrieval although I have to add that this is a subjective impression when comparing it with amps that are voiced 'colder'.  I 'd like the reproduction to be a bit crisper.


----------



## Zkadoush

Fantastic, What a nice surprise from Munich, Fried! The V220 looks fabulous, and although it's nice to have a silver front option, I still like the black better  .
 Since you are introducing these fabulous new Amp/PreAmps, a remote control option and optional pots, do you also have plans for upgrading the V800 or a new D/A converter with additional functionalities? 

 When I first saw the pictures I thought you had squeezed the V200 and V800 in a box the size of the V220 (a dream come true those of us who want one box doing it all), but I guess the noise floor being slightly higher as a result of packing more circuitry into one box - as you mentioned above - doesn't make that such a good idea.

 In the High-Resolution debate regarding our ability to distinguish CD audio from High-Resolution formats, there has been quite some discussion about Amps being able to match the digital specs of D/A converters, and thus being able to resolve the 20-21 bit that the better D/A converters are capable of today. Besides the importance of wider bandwidths, SNR is obviously an important element, and the now classic V100/V181/V200 all sport a SNR of 128 dB (A-weighted), which is of course stellar, since they even beat the 120 dB SNR of the V800 (there are of course divided opinions in this debate, and many hold the position that High-Resolution audio is redundant and that our limited hearing abilities won't be able to take advantage of it).

 At the moment there are two Power Amps that can deliver 128 dB SNR (as far as I know), the Benchmark AHB2 Power Amp and Mola-Mola's Kaluga monoblocks, and my question is obviously if you have you ever given thought about building a Power Amp.

 Beyond all the questions, congratulations on the release of all the new goodies, I truly envy all those who got to be there in Munich and give the V220 and V282 a listen.

 Schoene Gruesse aus Neu Zealand


----------



## fdg

@ Zkadoush
  
 … what comes next …

 DAC V800 was meanwhile updated to have a 24/192 USB input. This option is also mountable into existing units !

 Next near will see a downsized V800 which may save some money for those who need not that much comfort V800 is offering.
 The DAC itself (maybe updated to 32 bit) and the analog output circuitry will remain untouched and so the sound will be the same.

 Also there will be an upgraded DAC better than V800 (same case) with a motorized volume control (but still in the digital domain) and other remote controllable features.

 DSD over USB may probably come with another bigger DAC.
 I am not a friend of DSD. In the professional world this format is dead since 10 years.
 Also the input is missing – where are the files ?

 A headphone amp like HPA V220 with a premium DAC inside is conceivable but what about those who like to have HPA V281 with such a DAC.
 The case is full (!!) or the DAC circuitry must become smaller. This is not an easy task but we will think about it.

 Thank you for the link to Benchmarks AHB 2 Power Amp. I was not familiar with it by now.

 Indeed we are thinking about an power amp since a while.
 Our approach is:
 Same Case / form factor like V220 / V281
 This small case requires a cooling tunnel with fan (of course temperature controlled and only about 30 dB silent when in maximum motion) and avoids ugly outside heatsinks.
 Around 2 x 100 W rms into 4 ohms, around 200 W into 8 ohms in BTL mode.

 Bipolar technique, lowest THD, hugh damping factor and highest dynamic /SNR with the same trick Benchmark is using:
 Make the gain as small as possible as most gear in front would be glad to deliver more.
 We have stabilized our headphone amps under any circumstances with only 8 dB gain,
 inside a poweramp we think gain as low as 12-16 dB gain is possible for full output.
 If not, us the Pre-Gain method like we do with our headphone amps ! 
 This measure will care for highest SNR / lowest noise.
  
 Greetz
  
 Fried Reim


----------



## Zkadoush

Hi Fried,

 Thanks a million for sharing the plans for new goodies from Violectric. I really look forward to that Power Amp and the upgrades. When you mention that the upcoming DAC with remote control and motorized digital volume control will be _better_ than the V800, does that mean significant improvements in performance?

 You also mention retrofitable 24/192 USB input for the V800; will there also be a retrofittable 24/192 USB DAC module available for the V100/V181/V200 Amps?

 I agree with you regarding DSD, although many websites have started to sell DSD downloads (http://www.audiostream.com/content/dsd-resources-dsd-download-sites) and the format seems to have a revival. I believe Benchmark only included it in their DAC2 because of the current demand and to support a format that is commercial, not because they believe DSD actually means a qualitative difference or advantage (http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=74).

 A V220 with an onboard premium DAC would be a killer component indeed, especially if it can maintain the original specs of the V200 and a V800i despite the small box. I would not easilly be able to refrain from damaging my wallet a bit for a component like that.

 The ideas for a Power Amp sound really attractive, will certainly be looking forward to that release. You are definitely right about heat sinks, they really are ugly, but they also avoid the noise of fans that can be a nuisance you don't see, but that you can sometimes hear. The low gain feature is of course a good design choice, but I also think Benchmark's AHB2 is benefiting from the new Feed-Forward Error Correction THX Amps (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/18/ca-thx-idUSnBw185045a+100+BSW20131018) they have incorporated: "THX recently patented two new technologies that address crossover distortion, and Benchmark incorporated these innovations into the AHB2 design. These new innovations virtually eliminate crossover distortion while offering opportunities to improve efficiency, damping, and dynamic range. The licensed technology solves the crossover problem by combining a plurality of output stages such that one stage drives the output while another stage enters a crossover region". (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Huw2jNYSk) The recently raved about (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticimagery/1.html) and pretty goundbreaking nCore class-D Amp module from Hypex (http://www.hypex.nl/docs/papers/ncore%20wp.pdf), developed by Bruno Putseys (Mola-Mola/Hypex/Grimm), is of course the direct contender of the Benchmark/THX Amp, but at a much higher price.

 Thanks again for your kind response and for sharing your ideas, and apologies for the additional questions.

 Cheers!


----------



## fdg

The 24/192 USB for V800 as well as the 3 optional USB DACs for the headphone amps are available here: 

 http://violectric-usa.com/accessories
  
 Concerning the Violectric power amp:
 Meanwhile I think that a fan is a smart solution. 
 Those can be temperature controlled and modern designs are hard to hear.
 Ours will be inside the case, absorbing through the front panel and blowing through the tunnel on the back panel.
  
 I totally agree with John Siau´s opinion that SNR is totally overrated and that the real challenge is THD.
 Years ago there was a powerful german company with a proprietary 28-bit converters and outstanding 150 or 160 dB SNR.
 Unfortunately, as this design was a gain stageing converter, THD was very poor and far beyond -100 dB.
 It took a while until the "professionals" realized that maximising SNR is the wrong way to go.
  
 This is the same with DSD.
 It may make sense to record directly in the DSD format.
 Whats acually on display to download is old stuff which was converted to DSD.
 Maybe that there are people claiming it sounds "better", for my opinion it sound only "different".
  
 In the mid 90ties I was invited to a comparison of 48 kHz vs 96 kHz vs DSD in Switzerland, Bern, Music University.
 There was a band playing some contemporary "music" and we had to decide "blind" between live (analog), and the 3 digital formats converted A/D - D/A.
 And one presentation was always the winner - it was DSD !!
 The analog performance together with 48 kHz and 96 kHz where rated nearly equal with small issues against 48 kHz.
 But as DSD can´t be "better" than the real live perfomance it must be "different".
 And it is indeed as most analog equipment cant handle the massive attack of high frequency noise which always come
 with DSD and seems to tend to produce some harmonics - which are nice to hear ...  
  
 I have to read a bit more about the "patented circuitry" inside the benchmark amp.
 But I dont think that there is really a revolutionary approch to that theme as everything about classic amps is invented by now.

 In contrary to Benchmark we like to use a traditional toroidal transformer and tons of smoothing caps.
 This is a very conservative approach but I am sure that it will be apprechiated.
 We also think about class-D amps.
 Here the Hypex approach is worth a try.
  
 Greetz
  
 Fried


----------



## fradoca

from what i've heard at the Violectric booth in Munich the V281 will be a serious contender and a giant killer for many other overpriced headphones amplifiers.
 I've tried it with the Hd800 in balanced mode and with my hd600 also in balanced mode using a reference track from my usb stick.
 The amp is really powerful,goes very deep,it's fast detailed but also neutral.I think it will properly drive the he-6 much much better than the ef-6 by HIfiMan.
  
 I hope to have a review unit soon here to test it and compare with all the other balanced amps i have in my studio. - thank you Fried! 
  
 I think that if you are looking for a serious ss balanced amp the V281 could be your first choice.


----------



## Zkadoush

Thanks a million again for your answers, Fried.

 It is always refreshing to read someone with clear points of view and a direct approach.

 I totally agree regarding the DSD files available, but sadly many are following the market hype and the format is certainly having it's moment of success. I think in the end it will fail, but for now some are making money from it and that sure gives it momentum and earns supporters.

 I am more under the impression that John Siau is advocating an ideal 130 dB SNR in function of the dynamic range of the human hearing, in function of the approxinately 21 Bits that 130 dB represent, and as a conditio sine qua non for accurate reproduction of High-Resolution audio ("Anyone who thinks they can hear the difference between 16-bit and 24-bit digital audio through a "17-bit" power amplifier is fooling themselves."). Of course THD+N is a crucial value for an ideally high SNR to matter, but Benchmark's DAC2 is doing well in that department as well, and their AHB2 Amp is even slightly better then their DAC.

 You are also right that everything has been pretty much invented regarding Power Amps, but this rather "ancient", and at some point abandoned solution of Feed-Forward error correction has payed off. The class-D solution of Bruno Putseys is certainly more attractive, but much more expensive. Also his Mola-Mola dicrete DAC (http://www.mola-mola.nl/index.php/dak) shows values that go through the roof, like: Signal to Noise Ratio: 140 dB (standalone version), 130dB (preamp option board), THD, IMD: not measurable (estimated -150 dB), Integrated jitter: <1 ps from 10 Hz upwards, <300 fs from 1 kHz upwards, Jitter rejection: >80 dB at 1 Hz after 20 seconds of lock, and Bandwidth: Up to 80 kHz. Choice of sharp or slow upsampling filters, minimum or linear phase. But of course all this comes with a price tag, lol.

 Thanks again for your sharp comments and for sharing future ideas for Violectric components.

 Cheers!

 P.S.

 I was reading an interview with John Siau and found the reference you made in the sense that, "I totally agree with John Siau´s opinion that SNR is totally overrated and that the real challenge is THD." The interview is a very interesting one, and the passage referring to the THD vs SNR argument is the following: "

 "Every A/D and D/A converter that Benchmark has produced uses Sigma-Delta conversion with equally weighted 1-bit conversion elements. Benchmark never used multi-level conversion because of the THD issues caused by the linearity errors that are common to all multi-level systems. Benchmark has always placed high priorities on THD and linearity, at the expense of SNR. Sigma-delta 1-bit DACs tend to produce more noise than multi-level systems (such as ladder DACs), but the 1-bit systems achieve near-perfect linearity, which in our opinion is much more important than SNR. Benchmark has overcome the noise limitations of 1-bit conversion through the use of parallel 1-bit conversion systems. Our DAC2 sums the outputs of four balanced converters. Each of these four converters has sixteen equally-weighted balanced 1-bit converters (for a total of 64) that are summed together to improve the SNR of the system. These 64 1-bit converters can be driven from a 32-bit PCM signal, or from a 1-bit DSD signal. Either way, the performance is nearly identical, and none of the multi-bit THD issues exist. In this sigma-delta configuration there is almost no difference between the in-band performance of PCM vs. DSD. The only measurable difference at the output of the DAC2 is that 64x DSD signals produce about 8 dB more noise in-band than96/24 PCM (due to the SNR limitations of DSD). Ultrasonic noise is not an issue at the output of the DAC2 because we are careful to remove the ultrasonic noise produced by DSD noise shaping. These same filters also remove the ultrasonic images that are always produced by D/A conversion (DSD or PCM)."

 Interestingly, regarding the issue of DSD and the advantage of native DSD downloads vs SACD, Siau notes the following:

 "Benchmark introduced 64X DSD on the new Benchmark DAC2 converter family. This gives our customers the ability to play DSD recordings in native format. Existing DSD recordings should not need to be converted to PCM to be enjoyed on a Benchmark converter. 
     Currently there is no practical way to play SACD disks through a high-quality outboard converter. SACD copy protection holds most existing DSD recordings captive to the limited quality of the low-cost conversion systems built into SACD players. It is our hope that many of the fine recordings that exist on SACD disks will be released for purchase as DSD downloads."

 Cheers!


----------



## roskodan

beyermonster said:


>


 
 you can't possibly be serious, your concerns just do not hold water
  
 1. a feet upgrade would increase the price a few bucks, but would make the devices, especially when stacked , more practical, no need to increase weight
  
 2. what about the expensive extra tick case and the nextel and front panel finish and engraving, adds a lot more to the weight and cost but doesn't really make anything more practical or more performing, why not complain about that?
  
 3. improving the feet it could maybe be possible to shave some weight off and still have a better grip
  
 4. i wasn't really giving an opinion or asking for one or any kind of intervention, it's a fact, those feet are not fit for 1k+ devices


----------



## BeyerMonster

Quote:



roskodan said:


> you can't possibly be serious, your concerns just do not hold water
> ...
> why not complain about that?


 
  
I said the following:

  A) I think it's a non-issue, because while I have very lightweight devices that slide around, my V200/V800 stack is not one of them.
 B) I specifically said I hope they don't make it heavier just so it doesn't slide around, because that will increase cost.
 C) I never objected to a change in feet, I just don't think it's necessary.
  
I'm very interested in what an "improved version" sounds like, but I am happy with my V200. As such, I don't have any "complaints", so I'm not going to manufacture one.


  Quote:


roskodan said:


> 4. i wasn't really giving an opinion


 
 That's exactly what you did. You stated your _*opinion*_. I stated my _*opinion*_. We _*agree *_to_* disagree*_. At this point we've both voiced our opinions, and I don't plan to say any more on this topic since we're just polluting the 281 thread now.


----------



## roskodan

it's almost june
  
 hopefully review samples will be rolling out soon (if not already)
  
 what caught my eye is that the v281 looks the same as the v220 but with an added add on amplifier on top of the v220
  
 so kind was wondering how come they have different front panels, as it looks like a v220 could be sent in for upgrade at some point, to the v281


----------



## mordim

Hi,
 Listened v281 to the show in Munich,and wanted to buy it right there,
 Fried dissuaded me but from the fact that it was a prototype.
 But I already pre-order.
 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_bBBnG0qHSA/U4TSqd6kLHI/AAAAAAAAAH4/6g0ldkrVDVc/s213-p/20140517_124332.jpg
 https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-83RqnzazKZA/U4TSwRl6OmI/AAAAAAAAAH8/JbITsjIARaA/w212-h213-p/20140517_124337.jpg


----------



## Xenophon

mordim said:


> Hi,
> Listened v281 to the show in Munich,and wanted to buy it right there,
> Fried dissuaded me but from the fact that it was a prototype.
> But I already pre-order.
> ...


 
 So, what convinced you and what other amps have you tried?  I don't doubt that the product is good, just curious to hear someone who tried it.


----------



## mordim

Hi,
 Xenophon,


I have long been looking for an amplifier for my Sennheiser HD 800,

 I had Eximus DP1, LUXMAN P-1u,
 listening to headphones with several tube amplifiers (Leben CS-600),
 but the sound v281 liked more than others.
 But this is only my personal opinion.


----------



## BeyerMonster

mordim said:


> I have long been looking for an amplifier for my Sennheiser HD 800,


 
 Have you listened to the V200s long enough to offer a comparison?


----------



## mordim

I listened V200 -15 minutes and V281 - 30 minutes in the same place in Munich,
 before Violectric never heard,
 there were SPL Phonitor and other.
 https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-m0un88Ar5uI/U4TsdCf5jHI/AAAAAAAAAIo/6sWlm-r54NM/w346-h195/20140517_131252.jpg


----------



## Pete4412

Looks fantastic!


----------



## Xenophon

mordim said:


> Hi,
> Xenophon,
> 
> I have long been looking for an amplifier for my Sennheiser HD 800,
> ...


 
 Yeah, at the end of the day it's always personal taste that determines most if not everything.  If I've learned anything in audio then it is that enjoyment is not a science thing.  But thanks for your impressions.  Interesting that you have the big Leben, no issues with hiss with the HD-800?
  
 I'm on the fence and have a love/not so perfect thing with the V200.  Depending on my mood and the type of classical music I listen to I prefer a slightly warm-neutral sound or something dead neutral/crisp and airy sounding such as the Antelope Audio.  For the first sound sig. I reach to my tube amp which is a type that sounds very ss-like or for the V200 which is also a little bit warm.  If I like things detailed and a bit more aloof then neither the tube amp nor the V200 will do but my F5 works nicely.  
  
 Fwiw I think there's a very good chance the V281 will better the EF-6 with the HE-6 headphones.  Design and soundwise I've never been extremely impressed with the EF-6, feel it's massively overpriced.  Its one quality is power but the V281 should come close.


----------



## mordim

xenophon said:


> Yeah, at the end of the day it's always personal taste that determines most if not everything.  If I've learned anything in audio then it is that enjoyment is not a science thing.  But thanks for your impressions.  Interesting that you have the big Leben, no issues with hiss with the HD-800?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, you are absolutely right, all a matter of taste,
 but for myself, I have chosen  amplifier to my headphones.


----------



## project86

More pics - I'm too lazy to copy/paste so I'll just LINK.


----------



## daerron

I have to say I really like that silver front panel!


----------



## Megalomaniak

I hope we dont have to wait much longer to have our amps.


----------



## project86

They should be coming really soon. I'll ask Fried about it though.


----------



## madbull

Almost pulling the trigger on the V281... oh God


----------



## Fegefeuer

Which version are you guys getting? Did anyone already pull the trigger on the 128 stepped attenuator edition?


----------



## Megalomaniak

fegefeuer said:


> Which version are you guys getting? Did anyone already pull the trigger on the 128 stepped attenuator edition?


 
  
 Silver front / black feet V281 standard volume control.


----------



## madbull

fegefeuer said:


> Which version are you guys getting? Did anyone already pull the trigger on the 128 stepped attenuator edition?



 


I just did it. V281, silver plates, USB 24/192, volume control level 2.

My poor wallet...


----------



## Armaegis

mordim said:


>


 
  
 I realize it's the perspective playing tricks, but geez the amps look huge in that picture.


----------



## fdg

*Finally we managed to measure V220 and V281.
 For a better comparison we added the data from V200. *
  
  

 Technical Data
 HPA V200
 HPA V220
 HPA V281
 Input impedance
 10 kOhm
 10 kOhm
 10 kOhm
 Amp Gain
 +8 dB
 +8 dB
 +14 dB
 Pre-Gain
 -12 / -6 / 0 / +6 / +12 dB
 -12 / -6 / 0 / +6 / +12 dB
 -12 / -6 / 0 / +6 / +12 dB
  Amp Gain + Pre-Gain
 -4 / +2 / +8 / +14 / +20 dB
 -4 / +2 / +8 / +14 / +20 dB
 +2 / +8 / +14 / +20 / +26 dB
 Frequency Range
 5Hz … 70 kHz (-0,5 dB)
 5Hz … 70 kHz (-0,5 dB)
 5Hz … 70 kHz (-0,5 dB)
 Noise unwtd.
 -98 dB
 -98 dBu
 -92 dBu
 Noise A-wtd.
 -101 dB
 -101 dBu
 -95 dBu
 Dynamic Range
 129 dB
 129 dB
 129 dB
 Output impedance
 < 0,083 Ohm
 < 0,1 Ohm
 < 0,2 Ohm
 Damping Factor                 ( 50 Ohm Load)
 > 600
 > 500
 > 250
 Crosstalk @ 1 kHz
 -122 dB
 -120 dB
 -105 dB
 Crosstalk @ 15 kHz
 -113 dB
 -113 dB
 -103 dB
 THD+N @ 1kHz / 1W
 -100 dB
 -102 dB
 -102 dB
 THD+N @ 1 kHz / 0,5 W
 -103 dB
 -100 dB
 -100 dB

 
 ... and here is the output power (always all channels driven !)
 Please take a closer look to the V281 data @ 600 Ohm.
 40,2 Vrms looks like world record )
  

 Pout max.         V / mW / dB                    @ THD < 0,1 %
  
 HPA V200
 HPA V220
 HPA V281
 RL/Ohm
 Ua/V
 P/mW
 dBu
 Ua/V
 P/mW
 dBu
 Ua/V
 P/mW
 dBu
 600
 19,0
 600
 27,8
 20,0
 670
 28,2
 40,2
 2700
 34,3
 100
 15,3
 2330
 25,9
 17,5
 3050
 27,0
 23,7
 5600
 29,7
 50
 11,5
 2630
 23,4
 11,6
 2700
 23,5
 14,5
 4200
 25,4
 32
 7,9
 1970
 20,2
 9,5
 2800
 21,8
 9,5
 2800
 21,8
 16
 4,2
 1120
 14,7
 4,9
 1500
 16,0
 4,9
 1500
 16,0

  
 Best Regards
  
 Fried Reim


----------



## fradoca

noise and crosstalk values look quite inferior to V200 as well the damping factor.
 but you can't only rely on specs values.Listening tests are the crucial part.
 I hope to have a chance soon with the V281 
  
 What's the power output @300 load?? 
  
 thanks!


----------



## roskodan

fradoca said:


> What's the power output @300 load??


 
 well, at least double that at 600 ohm, 4440mW doing a linear calculation
  
 what i'm wondering...
  
 is the v220 upgradable to the v281? like one buys the v220 and than sends it back for an upgrade to v281?


----------



## Xenophon

At those values, a damping factor of 500 or 600 doesn't make any difference, same for the noise values, you woildn't be able to hear any difference, it's way below human treshold. The power is where it's at...but I'll live happily with my V200.


----------



## Megalomaniak

As Xenophon says, those damping factor values or noise and crosstalk dont make a difference between the newer and the v200, because -90db is dead silent.
  
 Also, if im not wrong, V281 works in SE as the V220 with those values (you got 2 in 1 amps )


----------



## fdg

Some words about noise and crosstalk which may be puzzling on V281.
  
 As there are 4 amps inside V281 for balanced operation the noise figure suffers by 6 dB.
 This is normal !!
 Because on the other hand this amp is twice as powerful and you may reduce the volume by 6 dB to have the same volume like a SE amp.
 Take a look at the dynamic range (129 dB) which is exactly the same on all amps.
  
 The push-pull amp architecture of V281 is also responsible for the doubled output impedance compared to V220.
 Double as much amps = twice output impedance.
  
 Always keep in mind that inside V281 there are two SE amps with the technical data of V220 !
  
 About crosstalk: everything lower than -80 dB is more than any source can deliver !!
  
 @ roskodan:
 Theoretically it is possible to upgrade the V220 to V281.
 Take a look at the inside pictures somewhere here in the post.
 The upper amp PCB, a different font panel PCB, the 4-pin socket and a couple of cables are making the difference.
  
 Fried


----------



## Megalomaniak

fdg said:


> Some words about noise and crosstalk which may be puzzling on V281.
> 
> As there are 4 amps inside V281 for balanced operation the noise figure suffers by 6 dB.
> This is normal !!
> ...


 
  
 Nice, also, when will the shipments start?


----------



## roskodan

also the power figures top at 100ohm so the new 70ohm lcd2 and 110ohm lcd3  kind of fit right there, also 4440mW for the hd800 looks interesting, not to mention the world record 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


fdg said:


> Please take a closer look to the V281 data @ 600 Ohm.
> 40,2 Vrms looks like world record )


 
 which is kind of dangerous :3


----------



## Megalomaniak

HD800s dont need so much power, they benefict directly from the very black background and low distorsion, but HD800s is good in SE mode. For me the XLR output is a perfect match for all the orthos and the K1000.
  
 Anyway, I will test SE vs Balanced with the LCD-2, LCD-X, LCD-3, HE-500, HE-6 and HD800s.


----------



## roskodan

you have to look at it like this
  
 250mW, could suffice for the hd800
  
 but it's not the same if you deliver the 250mW with an amp like the v200 that tops at 18.5Veff or a v281 that can do 40,2Veff in balanced mode
  
 the v281 will probably do it in class A operation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and have a much higher peak current capability, which i found benefits the sound greatly


----------



## fdg

@ Megalomaniak
  
 we will ship the first units to registered customers end of June / beginning of July
  
 ... and as far as I remember you are among these )


----------



## Megalomaniak

roskodan said:


> you have to look at it like this
> 
> 250mW, could suffice for the hd800
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice, anyway, I will listen that by myself 
  


fdg said:


> @ Megalomaniak
> 
> we will ship the first units to registered customers end of June / beginning of July
> 
> ... and as far as I remember you are among these )


 
  
 Great!! Almost by my birthday hahah.


----------



## mordim

fdg said:


> @ Megalomaniak
> 
> 
> we will ship the first units to registered customers end of June / beginning of July
> ...


 

 Come on, Fried, sends ,
 and it is a birthday I have tomorrow,
  and you did not want me to sell V281 in Munich.


----------



## FredrikT92

Where can you pre-order this in europe?


----------



## roskodan

pm sent


----------



## Megalomaniak

Paid, cant wait!


----------



## roskodan

expected delivery date?


----------



## Megalomaniak

By next week!


----------



## third_eye

For any Violectric fans that happen to either live or have an opportunity to be in the Bay Area, we will be showing the V281 and V220 at the upcoming SF Meet on July 19. Link to the meet is in my sig.


----------



## saxelrod92

I'm thinking of getting either the V220 or V200 for my LCD 2. The only thing I can't seem to find is when is the V220 supposed to actually ship?

 I saw earlier in threads it was going to be around the end of june, but obviously it's running just a little past that. Still the US store has both models listed as pre-orders. There also aren't many if at all any impressions of the sound of the V220, so I really have nothing to go on, whether I should wait patiently and get the V220, or just go for the V200 right now. I just want to know what sonic differences the tweaks made to the V220 resulted in, compared to the V200. I saw the specs and numbers, but that doesn't tell me how it sounds in comparison lol.

 So in summary: how does it sound? when does it come out?

 Thank you


----------



## Viper2005

saxelrod92 said:


> I'm thinking of getting either the V220 or V200 for my LCD 2. The only thing I can't seem to find is when is the V220 supposed to actually ship?
> 
> I saw earlier in threads it was going to be around the end of june, but obviously it's running just a little past that. Still the US store has both models listed as pre-orders. There also aren't many if at all any impressions of the sound of the V220, so I really have nothing to go on, whether I should wait patiently and get the V220, or just go for the V200 right now. I just want to know what sonic differences the tweaks made to the V220 resulted in, compared to the V200. I saw the specs and numbers, but that doesn't tell me how it sounds in comparison lol.
> 
> ...


 
 Wait a little bit longer.  Even if you decide not to get the V220, there will be many cheap V200's on the market from the people that did upgrade.. so you'll win both ways  
 And by the way, the V200 sounds amazing with the LCD-2!


----------



## Xenophon

^^ +1
  
 I'm just taking a wild & crazy guess but I don't think the sound signature will be different, except perhaps in the extremes of bass and with headphones that can make use of the extra power the new model delivers.  There won't be too many of those, maybe the LCD 2/3, certainly the HifiMan HE-6 / maybe the 500.  For all other cans I seriously doubt if there will be any significant/audible difference over the V200 which as was said, you'll be able to purchase on the cheap from people making the upgrade.
  
 As a point of reference, with my HE-6 the V200 gets me to (I'd say) 90% of its potential as compared to when I power it either via the headphone out of my vintage SX-1980 (20 Watt) or via the speaker taps of my F5 amp.  Most notable differences are in the bass reproduction, it;s very audible with test tracks such as those on the Chesky binaural album where a tone of progressively lower frequency is generated.  Underpowered amps crap out well before you hit the headphones' limitations, if you supply enough power they really go DEEP and accurate.  I know many other factors come into play but as a rough comparison this makes the point.


----------



## saxelrod92

From the power specs at the start of this thread, the difference will be minor for my LCD 2's, or in general for any headphone between 50-100 ohm. The V200 maxes out at about 2.6 watts in 50 ohms (according to the specs in this thread), and the V220 maxes at about 2.7ish in 50 ohms. the only real difference is the V220 has an increase in power as you go up to 100 ohms, and the V200 has a decrease in power as you go up to 100 ohms. I doubt the difference would be audible. My main question of changes in the sound would be those unrelated to power, since in the marketing descriptions they claim they made some "minor tweaks" to the V220 amp over the V200, but is still essentially the same amp. Besides power, I'd be curious to know what exactly those "minor tweaks" actually do to the sound/what they are specifically. For example the one slight negative I've seen mentioned about the V200 is that it's soundstage isnt the best. thats not to much of an issue for me, and I would be totally fine  and happy with it, but if somehow those "minor tweaks" improved in that area slightly, then you basically have a V200 without it's most talked about negative trait. which is better lol. But if those tweaks are purely power related, and in general they end up sounding the same for the most part, then I'd rather go with he V200 for the cheaper price, as you all say.


----------



## project86

Apparently there were some delays caused by various issues outside Violectric's control. But I guess things are on track now, and amps should be shipping in the next few weeks. I know they intend to send a unit or two out to some upcoming meets, and preorders should start shipping as well. I look forward to hearing the V281 myself soon enough.
  
 As for differences between V220 and V200 - We'll have to wait and see. The obvious thing is the new chassis has more room to fit stuff in. In base form it already seems to offer full preamp functionality with XLR _and _RCA outputs. So that could come in handy. Adding the remote control option makes it even more useful in that regard.


----------



## fdg

We had some problems to face during the last weeks and so the delivery of V220 and V281 was a bit later than June (originally sceduled).
 But now we are busy to ship the preorders to registered customers.
*There is also a V281 (silver face / remote / 192k USB) on its way to John, (project86) for a review.*
 I dont know if he makes a quick and short one for those who are so curious and a detailed one some time later )
 ... or only a detailed one and everbody has to wait a bit longer )
 It´s up to him as we never try to influence the reviewers !
  
 I can say from my experience with V220 that it has a bit more beef compared to V200.
 The sometimes mentioned issues with the sound stage I have never realized myself.
 Generally spoken V220 is very close to V200. Its the same amp by design with a more powerful supply and lots of comfortable features.
 If these are rated to be a "must have" or "negligible", everbody has to assess on his own.
 I myself enjoy it very much sitting in my cosy chair and ruling with the remote over my cans and my speakers. 
  
 V281 is a class of its own as it combines the sound stage of V200 and the power of a balanced amp !
 All those who are scared of the power hungry HE 6 will have an answer.
  
 The 192k DAC´s (coax or opto or USB inputs) with their new designed D/A converter and analog output circuitry are a step in the right direction.
 They are far better than the 96k solutions - but unfortunately still dont reach the DAC V800 performance.
  
 Greetz
  
 Fried


----------



## saxelrod92

fdg said:


> We had some problems to face during the last weeks and so the delivery of V220 and V281 was a bit later than June (originally sceduled).
> But now we are busy to ship the preorders to registered customers.
> *There is also a V281 (silver face / remote / 192k USB) on its way to John, (project86) for a review.*
> I dont know if he makes a quick and short one for those who are so curious and a detailed one some time later )
> ...


 

 Firstly, thank you for the reply! greatly appreciated 

 Secondly I guess I'll have to wait for John's detailed review to get the full impressions lol. I don't really require any preamp functionality, so that will mainly be just extra, but not mean anything to me. For me it will come right down to the differences in the core amp set ups. Basic V220 vs V200, powering LCD 2. I am drawn to the V220's extra power and added "beef" that it supplies, as I love that sound in music. Hopefully a review/impressions of kind will come out soon to flush out some of the details.

 All good problems to be having haha


----------



## Megalomaniak

New beast around here!







You got to hear this... Soon I'll have the balanced cable tho.


----------



## Xenophon

Congrats, looking forward to impressions!  Very curious.  Going by Fried's description of a 'beefier' sound -and provided my idea of what 'beefier' translates to corresponds with his- that's not what I'm really looking for vs what my V200 offers.  If anything, I'd have liked to see a presentation that's a little more lithe, detailed and delicate.  A ballerina rather than a marine.  But that has everything to do with personal taste and music choice rather than quality.  Another highly personal thing is the remote.  I'll never understand why people feel this is useful let alone necessary.  But OK, I don't even own a TV set.
  
 As I said, looking forward to impressions!


----------



## Megalomaniak

xenophon said:


> Congrats, looking forward to impressions!  Very curious.  Going by Fried's description of a 'beefier' sound -and provided my idea of what 'beefier' translates to corresponds with his- that's not what I'm really looking for vs what my V200 offers.  If anything, I'd have liked to see a presentation that's a little more lithe, detailed and delicate.  A ballerina rather than a marine.  But that has everything to do with personal taste and music choice rather than quality.  Another highly personal thing is the remote.  I'll never understand why people feel this is useful let alone necessary.  But OK, I don't even own a TV set.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Im not sure if we understand the "beefier" word in the same way, but for me "beefier" means lively, heavier or with more "muscle".

I have a ton of work right now, but tonight I'll have a listen to some Blues SACDs I have here, I cant compare it with the V200 because I dont have it, but Project86 will do a fine review, read it as soon as he writes it!

But, I can asure you, this thing is as quiet as you can imagine, the sound is full, smooth and very detailed. As soon as I get my Custom made balanced cable with silver like the SE I have, I'll post impressions of the balanced part.

*UPDATE --*

Well, I''ve been listening to the machine for a few hours and normally, it takes me longer to see the full potential of something, but by now, what I hear is awesome. 

The bass part is very controlled, detailed and super deep, Ive been hearing low-frequency resonances Ive never heard from either the LCD-2s or the D7000s, this thing goes deep and deep with no issue. This is the speaker-like punch the LCDs can give you!

Also, I noticed an improvement in the mids section of all my headphones, giving it more presence and realism yet, smoothness/transparency and body, as I say, the amp is warm, and I like that.

The treble section is like the V200 has always been, detailed, airy but smooth, no harsh at all, it doesnt hide any detail, all the information is there, but in a smooth way!

The soundstage may not be as big as in other amps, but the imaging, depth and width is the most precise Ive ever heard. This is not easy to notice with the music I listen (mostly, rock, metal, jazz and blues), but I can asure I noticed it very fast. Also, while gaming to the "Amnesia - Machine For Pigs" which has a very good ambient sounds, I noticed the big improvement as all the sounds came from the exact distance the game wanted them, very precise. I will try some classical music recordings I have with the K701 soon.

This is just in a couple hours of listening, for sure, I will post bigger impressions later but... I had an issue with the amplifier, and I noticed Lake People via e-mail, I hope I get this solved A.S.A.P.! (and Im pretty sure I will )


----------



## project86

Nice! Mine should arrive tomorrow, so hopefully I'll have a bit of time to mess with it. Can't wait.


----------



## saxelrod92

So I just managed to sell some old gear on ebay, which now opens up my options to go for the V281. Very excited haha! But just got a couple sorta noobie questions regarding it:

 1. I will be feeding it RCA single ended input from my dac (it is not balanced) and at least for a good bit of the concievable future that's how it will be. So will the balanced headphone output still work, and give me full use of all that glorious power? even though it's being fed a SE input.
  
 2. Do the single ended outputs on the V281 output that full power spec, or is it just with the balanced output jack? meaning the SE outputs are the same specs of a normal V220. I'm assuming the answer is yes, balanced output only for full power, but just making sure. I plan to get a balanced cable for my LCD 2's so it's not a problem, just curious 

 More important is the answer to question one, because that will determine my choice a lot, as I simply can't afford an amp AND a new dac, just an amp, and my dac is pretty solid as is, just not balanced. I just want to take full advantage of the amp and its full power output into that balanced jack, with my current source set up.

 Thank you greatly in advanced!


----------



## Megalomaniak

@saxelrod92
  
 1) Yes, either you use RCA or XLR inputs, Balanced channel works.
  
 2) Yes, the SE mode uses the V220 power, Balanced mode uses V281 power. This is like having 2 amps in one and I like that, cuz some of my headphones doesnt need that much power.
  
 ------------------
  
 I hope I get a reply from Violectric today with my issue, its a minor thing, but I want to solve this asap!


----------



## saxelrod92

megalomaniak said:


> @saxelrod92
> 
> 1) Yes, either you use RCA or XLR inputs, Balanced channel works.
> 
> ...


 

 Ah, Thank you very much for the answers 

 Just curious what is the minor issue, if you dont mind me asking that is?


----------



## Megalomaniak

saxelrod92 said:


> Ah, Thank you very much for the answers
> 
> Just curious what is the minor issue, if you dont mind me asking that is?


 
  
 Its okey!
  
 The volume knob just came off. It started to bounce withing 1-2 hours of use, and suddenly you could not regulate the volume because it made infinite circles around the regulator.
  
 Initialy I thought that the inner screw just broke, but last night I looked at it closely and found out that doesnt seem to go through the volume regulator, it just adjusts the knob to the regulator by aplying pressure, and this screw may have loosen with the shipping.
  
 What I want from Violectric is to tell me if this works like I just said, if it only applys pressure I can re-adjust it myself with an allen screwdriver, and maybe apply some glue to ensure it. But of course I dont want to void any warranty.


----------



## saxelrod92

megalomaniak said:


> Its okey!
> 
> The volume knob just came off. It started to bounce withing 1-2 hours of use, and suddenly you could not regulate the volume because it made infinite circles around the regulator.
> 
> ...


 

 I see, I think you're correct in figuring out how the volume knob is attached, just with the pressure. Hopefully this is just some "fresh off the line" kinks in a new release, especially considering it has a new, massive volume knob lol. At least it wasn't the balance control, I can imagine not being able to regulate that accurately would make someone go crazy.


----------



## Megalomaniak

saxelrod92 said:


> I see, I think you're correct in figuring out how the volume knob is attached, just with the pressure. Hopefully this is just some "fresh off the line" kinks in a new release, especially considering it has a new, massive volume knob lol. At least it wasn't the balance control, I can imagine not being able to regulate that accurately would make someone go crazy.


 
  
  
 Everything works perfectly but the volume know by this little issue. The balance knob works perfectly, doesnt bounce, its solid as a rock, like the rest of the amp (connectors, chasis and stuff).
  
 Another friend from a Spanish forum told me that the screw always applys pressure (he builds amps, he already built a few full 4pcb beta22s and the KGSShv), never goes throught. What I really think is that this issue is not really a problem from Violectric's quality control, but the package could be a little bit bigger with more foam.


----------



## roskodan

fegefeuer said:


> 41 stepped volume control - will come motorized via remote control and of course in a classic version.


 

 from what i can see it's the same as on the v200 so there is an alan/hex key screw doing all the grip, but it must be aligned to sit in the little dip on the plastic shaft of the alps rk27 attenuator
  
 on the v200 the plastic shaft is half moon and the dip (little hole) is located on the flat side
  
 to easily align the knob, first tighten the hex screw before inserting the knob, so that the knob can barely (but easily) slides onto the shaft, and try to feel that the screw has clicked in position inside the little dip on the flat side of the shaft, then lightly tighten it so it gets a firm hold


----------



## Megalomaniak

Thank you for the feedback, Fried replied me, I'll ask him a couple questions and will post here in case someone finds this usefull in the future.
  
 UPDATE ------------
  
 Fried just replied me to the final message. If anyone has the knob problem just let you know "do not to worry, be happy!". My issue was a disadjustment of the volume knob screw due to the transportation, nothing to really worry about and Violectric replied my emails very fast.
  
 Everything is okey, all problems solved, now its time to listen and enjoy this beast! For sure its sound is astonishing. Will post a review soon as I get my balanced cable with photos and my impressions, but for sure this thing is good, so good.


----------



## saxelrod92

megalomaniak said:


> Thank you for the feedback, Fried replied me, I'll ask him a couple questions and will post here in case someone finds this usefull in the future.
> 
> UPDATE ------------
> 
> ...


 

 Great to hear all is well now! 

 I play drums, and when using a double bass pedal, the left pedal is connected with a driveshaft, and some models are not made that well, and basically what you experienced with the volume knob, I've experienced with bass drum pedals lol. easy fix, not to mention the volume knob engineering is way better than most drum pedals haha.


----------



## project86

V281 in the house now, with the 24/192 USB and motorized volume options. All I can say so far is...... WOW. This thing looks, feels, and sounds, like an absolute beast. In  the best possible way. I'm running HE-6, LCD-3, and HD800 just to break it in, all with balanced cables. So far everything I've thrown at it sounds amazing. Gotta try single-ended and see how that does. Especially with IEMs - I'm hoping for a repeat of the V200 silent blackground. 
  
 For anyone who might have been worried (as I was, sort of) - the balance control has a sort of "stop" in the middle, so it's very easy to center the balance. You could literally do it with your eyes closed. I was worried I might obsess over finding a perfect adjustment but it's really no problem at all.
  
 This thing is BIG though. Like, bigger than a shoebox for my kids. Make some room in your rack for it.


----------



## saxelrod92

project86 said:


> V281 in the house now, with the 24/192 USB and motorized volume options. All I can say so far is...... WOW. This thing looks, feels, and sounds, like an absolute beast. In  the best possible way. I'm running HE-6, LCD-3, and HD800 just to break it in, all with balanced cables. So far everything I've thrown at it sounds amazing. Gotta try single-ended and see how that does. Especially with IEMs - I'm hoping for a repeat of the V200 silent blackground.
> 
> For anyone who might have been worried (as I was, sort of) - the balance control has a sort of "stop" in the middle, so it's very easy to center the balance. You could literally do it with your eyes closed. I was worried I might obsess over finding a perfect adjustment but it's really no problem at all.
> 
> This thing is BIG though. Like, bigger than a shoebox for my kids. Make some room in your rack for it.


 

 Wow sounds like it made one hell of a great first impression lol. I'm glad you mention the balance control thing, because I was also having those same ocd concerns, but it seems like thats not an issue thankfully. I think in general I'm most curious how it compares to something else in it's price range, considering it uses the V200 amp design. and of course balanced vs single ended


----------



## XVampireX

project86 said:


> V281 in the house now, with the 24/192 USB and motorized volume options. All I can say so far is...... WOW. This thing looks, feels, and sounds, like an absolute beast. In  the best possible way. I'm running HE-6, LCD-3, and HD800 just to break it in, all with balanced cables. So far everything I've thrown at it sounds amazing. Gotta try single-ended and see how that does. Especially with IEMs - I'm hoping for a repeat of the V200 silent blackground.
> 
> For anyone who might have been worried (as I was, sort of) - the balance control has a sort of "stop" in the middle, so it's very easy to center the balance. You could literally do it with your eyes closed. I was worried I might obsess over finding a perfect adjustment but it's really no problem at all.
> 
> This thing is BIG though. Like, bigger than a shoebox for my kids. Make some room in your rack for it.


 
 Better than Taurus?


----------



## roskodan

yes, but the schiit lyr still beats it, so you are safe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 btw i knew this one was coming, so i'll add...
  
 better than the CMA800R for HD800?


----------



## XVampireX

roskodan said:


> yes, but the schiit lyr still beats it, so you are safe
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I really doubt Schiit Lyr is better than Taurus or v281 amp, sure, it's cheaper, and sure, it's amazing for the price... but I can hear deficiencies with the amp section of Lyr.
  
 Besides that I'm interested in hearing project86's opinion on v281 vs  auralic taurus, as he has experience with both of them.


----------



## roskodan

i mean seriously? you took seriously the first line of my comment, despite the smiley and tone?
  
 i'm aware you must be in the process of building your chain
  
 btw, i'm also interested in as much comparisons as possible, especially against the two amp we mentioned, but also with some different sources and by others who ordered it too since a review is a review and user feedback is another thing


----------



## Megalomaniak

project86 said:


> V281 in the house now, with the 24/192 USB and motorized volume options. All I can say so far is...... WOW. This thing looks, feels, and sounds, like an absolute beast. In  the best possible way. I'm running HE-6, LCD-3, and HD800 just to break it in, all with balanced cables. So far everything I've thrown at it sounds amazing. Gotta try single-ended and see how that does. Especially with IEMs - I'm hoping for a repeat of the V200 silent blackground.
> 
> For anyone who might have been worried (as I was, sort of) - the balance control has a sort of "stop" in the middle, so it's very easy to center the balance. You could literally do it with your eyes closed. I was worried I might obsess over finding a perfect adjustment but it's really no problem at all.
> 
> This thing is BIG though. Like, bigger than a shoebox for my kids. Make some room in your rack for it.


 
  
 Yes, thats correct, and was my case too, the balance knob's adjustment is as easy as to count to 3. I havent used it yet xD, just tried to see how it works but turning it to the middle "stop" position is as easy as it sounds.
  
 Glad you like it, Ive been like 5 days of high use (as much as my work lets me) and this thing is as you say, just wow, very musical, detailed, no agressive sounding on the harsh side (smooth), awesome.


----------



## project86

It's easily in the same league as Taurus mkII and CMA800R. That's about as far as I'm comfortable going at this early stage. More when I've put a liberal amount of hours on it.


----------



## Icosaeder

@project86: I am super excited about the v281. Please, give us some updates on your opinion about the amp and especially on the pairing HD800 and v281. I am considering the v281, the Bryston bha-1 and the Auralic Taurus as companions for my HD800 (via balanced connection). Any recommendation on that?
  
 Best,
 Matt


----------



## Megalomaniak

Another impression!
  
 Ive been listening the V281 amp via single-ended mode, my Balanced cable will arrive soon and the amp works beautiful with all of my headphones, but, the big surprise is the K701!
  
 Yes! LCD-2 sound awesome out of it, also the Denon AH-D7000, but thats something I expected, what I did not expect at all was the big improvement in the AKG K701s.
  
 The AKG K701 is a headphones that either you love it or hate it, I was in the "love it" side, but there was something I didnt like about the K701, the mid-treble transition. The K701s have a strange, harshy peak around 5-6khz that harsh a little bit, more if the recording isnt a quality one. Also, the bass department, unless you use tubes, always has been a bit thin, I liked it in this way tho, for classical music and OSTs, but for other styles it laked punch and body.
  
 Well, I decided that the time had come to test the K701 with my new amp, and WOW, the K701 just evolved into a new level!!
  
 That harsh area near the treble almost dissapeared, and this is not burn-in related at all, the headphones has up to 2000 hours of use and I know it very very well. But the treble just calmed down a bit in that side, having all the extension the K701 always had, just add the plus of smoothness and a controlled situation and you got it!! Awesome.
  
 Also the mids part has been increased in resolution, clarity and a bit of body, which makes the headphones more fun to listen with rock/blues styles.
  
 The bass department boosted up, the sub-bass area goes very deep and this is easily noticeable, electronic music and the punch of drums sound much better. Also the overall bass has a tighter and punchier feeling, giving drums and percusion instruments more presence.
  
 As I say, this was a total surprise. I tried the K701s with many headphone and integrated amps, and Ive never heard it like this. Not even from tubes (marantz and McIntosh amps). Tubes gave it a smoother sound, but just smoother at all, a bit bassier, but the bass wasnt controlled at all, it was muddy, but the V281 gives very well controlled tight bass while smoothing the treble and increasing transparency and body of mids, and all this with the typical Violectric black background.
  
 Also the soundstage imaging got to another level, now sounds more realism.


----------



## roskodan

did you get the balanced cable for the lcd?
  
 Violectric is back!


----------



## Megalomaniak

roskodan said:


> did you get the balanced cable for the lcd?
> 
> Violectric is back!


 
  
 Is "in the making", a good hand-crafter here has a long queue, but I will have it soon. It will have silver and Neutrik connectors, just as my SE cable for the LCDs.


----------



## Armaegis

megalomaniak said:


> The AKG K701 is a headphones that either you love it or hate it, I was in the "love it" side, but there was something I didnt like about the K701, the mid-treble transition. The K701s have a strange, harshy peak around 5-6khz that harsh a little bit, more if the recording isnt a quality one. Also, the bass department, unless you use tubes, always has been a bit thin, I liked it in this way tho, for classical music and OSTs, but for other styles it laked punch and body.


 
  
 Have you ever tried the K612? I've owned or heard several iterations of the K701/702/etc and felt much the same about them. Then I tried the K612 and found it eliminated most of the gripes I had about the k701 but had the same technical prowess.


----------



## Megalomaniak

armaegis said:


> Have you ever tried the K612? I've owned or heard several iterations of the K701/702/etc and felt much the same about them. Then I tried the K612 and found it eliminated most of the gripes I had about the k701 but had the same technical prowess.


 
  
 No, but I would love to! Im going to try the K712 Pros soon tho


----------



## Xenophon

@Megalomaniac:  When you say 'smoothing' the treble, do you mean -to use a pejorative- 'smearing' the sound?  What I'd like to know is, if you compare it to say, the V200, how is the 'delineation' of the sound:  distinctly separate notes or does it present more 'overflow' so to speak?  With classical I've always found this to be one of the few areas where the V200 performs less good than an amp like for instance the Burson conductor (which comes with its own weaknesses).


----------



## saxelrod92

I have a question about the pre-order status shown on the Violectric USA store. If I were to buy lets say the V281 right now off that online store, does that get counted towards that current list of pre-orders that are seemingly getting shipped out right away? or is it going to put me onto another list that will ship out units after this current list? Just wondering how soon I could expect to have one of these great amps waiting at my door for me lol, if I were to place an order on the online USA store, since it still says pre-order.


----------



## roskodan

@fdg was thinking about pro reviewers like project86, and other, which are mostly (read 'all') from the states, and are featured on many popular hi-fi sites, but also about their European counterparts, and especially hobbyist / community / reviewers which i see are getting quite some audience, like Dan Gheorghe, who is doing a terrific effort as a hobbyist on his http://headmania.org blog site, and facebook page, so perhaps violectric/lakepeople demo/review units touring Europe can make a stop there too, which will be of interest for both us consumers and businesses here on the other side of the pond
  
  


xenophon said:


> @Megalomaniac:  When you say 'smoothing' the treble, do you mean -to use a pejorative- 'smearing' the sound?  What I'd like to know is, if you compare it to say, the V200, how is the 'delineation' of the sound:  distinctly separate notes or does it present more 'overflow' so to speak?  With classical I've always found this to be one of the few areas where the V200 performs less good than an amp like for instance the Burson conductor (which comes with its own weaknesses).


 
  
 i don't think there was any pejorative sense even remotely, it's about giving control and body up on top


----------



## project86

saxelrod92 said:


> I have a question about the pre-order status shown on the Violectric USA store. If I were to buy lets say the V281 right now off that online store, does that get counted towards that current list of pre-orders that are seemingly getting shipped out right away? or is it going to put me onto another list that will ship out units after this current list? Just wondering how soon I could expect to have one of these great amps waiting at my door for me lol, if I were to place an order on the online USA store, since it still says pre-order.




I'd just shoot them an email. Arthur usually responds very quickly.


----------



## Megalomaniak

xenophon said:


> @Megalomaniac:  When you say 'smoothing' the treble, do you mean -to use a pejorative- 'smearing' the sound?  What I'd like to know is, if you compare it to say, the V200, how is the 'delineation' of the sound:  distinctly separate notes or does it present more 'overflow' so to speak?  With classical I've always found this to be one of the few areas where the V200 performs less good than an amp like for instance the Burson conductor (which comes with its own weaknesses).


 
  
 I dont feel it lacks any air, extension or anything, K701s sound all they good can sound, nothing more nothing less. When I say smooth, I mean its a "easy listening trebble", like, if you hook up a Grado 325is, the trebble part is not as harsh as in other amps, but well extended.


----------



## saxelrod92

project86 said:


> I'd just shoot them an email. Arthur usually responds very quickly.


 

 Alright, I'll give them a try.


----------



## GourouLubrik

saxelrod92 said:


> Alright, I'll give them a try.


 
 And please report back if you get an Estimated Time of Arrival


----------



## saxelrod92

gouroulubrik said:


> And please report back if you get an Estimated Time of Arrival


 

 Well Arthur PM'd me, but idk if that means he doesn't want it public wide knowledge yet. but I do have a time frame according to him, he only just found out recently. I'll just PM you.


----------



## preproman




----------



## Jodet

If you're using SE HD800's is there any benefit to the 281 over the 220?


----------



## Megalomaniak

I dont see it, V281 is for balanced mode, SE mode on the V281 is a V220.


----------



## Corlagon

jodet said:


> If you're using SE HD800's is there any benefit to the 281 over the 220?




unlikely




>


----------



## roskodan

well except that you get two v220 for just a ~30% increase in price, and are ready for whenever you decide to go balanced, and makes even more sense if you plan getting, or already have a balanced source


----------



## saxelrod92

roskodan said:


> well except that you get two v220 for just a ~30% increase in price, and are ready for whenever you decide to go balanced, and makes even more sense if you plan getting, or already have a balanced source


 

 or just want to take full advantage of the maximum power output for planars or for just insane headroom lol.


----------



## Megalomaniak

I took the V281 over the V220 because of the Balanced feature for planar magnetic headphones. Even tho they are making them more eficient, I have the option available whenever I need it.


----------



## project86

I follow that same logic. If you can afford it, seems like it makes sense to grab the V281 over the V220 - you then have the balanced capability if you ever want to use it. If it's already a stretch then of course V220 is nothing to sneeze at. Heck, V200 is still a good buy despite the new models. But V281? Yeah, very nice.


----------



## alvinmate

Hey Guys,
  
 As this is a very good thread and dedicated to new flagship AMP from Violectric so I thought to share my thoughts. I am very excited and like some of you I have also placed the order for HPA V281 with silver finish.  Currently I have Audeze LCD X and have also ordered SENN HD 800 with balanced cables and Cardas Quadlink power cables.
  
 I hope this combination will be perfect as after this purchase  I am not planning to upgrade for a while...lets see


----------



## project86

Welcome to the party! Based on my week or so worth of listening, I don't think you'll be disappointed. I've been extremely impressed thus far, with everything I've thrown at the V281. Truly reference caliber in every way. And the USB input is really quite impressive as well - it's no Chord Hugo or anything of that caliber, but as a $240 option..... I've never heard a stand alone $240 DAC this capable. I works perfectly with Linux as well, for all you music server folks out there.


----------



## TooPoor

I know it's early, but can anyone give their opinion on whether the V220 is worth $400+ than the V200? Neither of my cans are that needy (HE-560 & LFF Enigma) so I'm not sure if I want to spend the extra money on the V220 over the V200. Speculation is welcome as well!


----------



## Xenophon

toopoor said:


> I know it's early, but can anyone give their opinion on whether the V220 is worth $400+ than the V200? Neither of my cans are that needy (HE-560 & LFF Enigma) so I'm not sure if I want to spend the extra money on the V220 over the V200. Speculation is welcome as well!


 
 Owning the 200 and purely speculating as I haven't heard the 281 (yet):  for me it would have to be a very significant improvement to a) take a serious hit on selling the 200 and b)paying extra for the 281.  Nothing I read so far seems to indicate radical differences and if -like me- you don't care about the option of remote control and don't need the extra power, then I wouldn't do it unless I had unlimited money to burn, in which case I wouldn't be posting here.  
  
 My 2c:  don't get drawn in by the marketing machine that's the HeadFi community and snatch up a discounted V200 from someone who disagreed with the previous statement


----------



## TooPoor

Xenophon! So I'm actually putting the La Figaro up for sale in order to fund this potential endeavor. Am I crazy?


----------



## Xenophon

I don't know if you're crazy or not but for me  having to choose between getting a V200 used and keeping my 337 or paying extra for the 281 and sell it off --->  no way in hell would I sell the 337, if for nothing else then because if you're not living in China, it's a hell of a lot easier to save up and purchase a V281 later on than it'll be to acquire a La Figaro.
  
 Just my opinion but I've ample amps.  And for the record, I do like my V200.  Solid state amp wise I'd rank what I own as follows:  F5-clone >  SX-1980 > V200 >  O2 > FiiO E09K.  But of course, the F5 is a speaker amp and the SX-1980  a piece of vintage gear, lovely sound though.    
  
 Believe it or not, the most head time goes to my DV-337 tube amp, which is spec wise undoubtably the ugly duckling.  In the end it's a question of taste and there's no debating that.


----------



## saxelrod92

So now that it's been a couple weeks since the new amps have been first heard, how are the ongoing impressions? Anybody been able to compare SE sound vs XLR output yet? and the one comparison I think the V281 will be most commonly put up against is the Auralic taurus mkII, curious how it stacks up. If the ragnarok was out then that would be the third comparison to make, and in general those three amps will probably be the solid state go to choices at that price, so knowing the differences between them is going to be crucial. They seem to each offer something unique that the other doesn't offer, so should be fun haha. I'm personally still pretty set on getting the V281 though, but that taurus mkII seems to keep popping up so I dont know yet for sure.


----------



## Megalomaniak

saxelrod92 said:


> So now that it's been a couple weeks since the new amps have been first heard, how are the ongoing impressions? Anybody been able to compare SE sound vs XLR output yet? and the one comparison I think the V281 will be most commonly put up against is the Auralic taurus mkII, curious how it stacks up. If the ragnarok was out then that would be the third comparison to make, and in general those three amps will probably be the solid state go to choices at that price, so knowing the differences between them is going to be crucial. They seem to each offer something unique that the other doesn't offer, so should be fun haha. I'm personally still pretty set on getting the V281 though, but that taurus mkII seems to keep popping up so I dont know yet for sure.


 
  
 Ive been very busy these days so I can varely give a few minutes a day to the amp, and I will have the balanced cable by next week or the following one, so I cant compare yet.
  
 ATM im listening it with the Senn HD800 via SE mode, and the sound is astonishing. The bass is very powerfull, controlled and deep, with good texture, the best Ive ever heard out of a HD800 and this amp gives even more precision in the treble and mids part, with body and the soundstage improved too. As I said before, this amp may not be the one with the biggest soundstage, but its character about it is to control and position all the things in the recording with perfect precision.
  
 Ive always blamed the HD800 to sound a little thin with all the amps ive tried, no matter if they were tube or SS amps, for me the sound was always a bit thin, not as thin as K701s or DT880 but just thin. I liked a warmer / fuller sound like the LCD-2 or LCD-3, for me, the sound of the LCD-2 is still my favourite by far, but I can asure that this V281 gives a full bodier sound to the HD800 without losing a single tad of precision, transparency and detail.


----------



## project86

I was going back and forth between Taurus mkII and V281 yesterday. Very similar in general capabilities and overall quality. I'm just now starting to get a handle on the unique flavors they have in comparison to one another. But I'm not confident enough yet to discuss it publicly. 
  
 Same deal with balanced versus single ended output on V281. Which I suppose we could call V281 versus V220, if you want to think of it that way. They are different, but describing it confidently will take some more experience on my end. Sorry.


----------



## devhen

project86 said:


> I was going back and forth between Taurus mkII and V281 yesterday. Very similar in general capabilities and overall quality. I'm just now starting to get a handle on the unique flavors they have in comparison to one another. But I'm not confident enough yet to discuss it publicly.
> 
> Same deal with balanced versus single ended output on V281. Which I suppose we could call V281 versus V220, if you want to think of it that way. They are different, but describing it confidently will take some more experience on my end. Sorry.


 
  
 Take your time.  Thanks for the feedback its been very helpful! These new Violectrics sound like winners. Looking forward to more comments & impressions.


----------



## saxelrod92

Yea, all in due time I'm sure 

 it seems though that they definitely hold their own with the competition, which is very good. Looking forward to more later on


----------



## Byrnie

project86 said:


> I was going back and forth between Taurus mkII and V281 yesterday. Very similar in general capabilities and overall quality. I'm just now starting to get a handle on the unique flavors they have in comparison to one another. But I'm not confident enough yet to discuss it publicly.
> 
> Same deal with balanced versus single ended output on V281. Which I suppose we could call V281 versus V220, if you want to think of it that way. They are different, but describing it confidently will take some more experience on my end. Sorry.


 
 Very interesting and looking forward to hearing your impressions, John.  Where will this review be posted once it's complete?  Also does the v281 bring out the same details over SE output as the Taurus does over SE?


----------



## project86

byrnie said:


> Very interesting and looking forward to hearing your impressions, John.  Where will this review be posted once it's complete?  Also does the v281 bring out the same details over SE output as the Taurus does over SE?


 
  
  
 It will post at InnerFidelity, though I'll certainly add a link here.
  
 So far SE output seems on par with Taurus over SE. But they each have a flavor of their own.


----------



## Byrnie

project86 said:


> It will post at InnerFidelity, though I'll certainly add a link here.
> 
> So far SE output seems on par with Taurus over SE. But they each have a flavor of their own.


 
 Nice another review to look forward to


----------



## alvinmate

I am very keen to know how the V281 stacks up with Taurus MKii. hope we can get some impressions soon


----------



## Megalomaniak

Just got balanced cable for the LCD-2 and my first impressions are that seems the soundstage has improved, at least imaging is clearer and soundstage a bit wider. Just a quick impression.


----------



## saxelrod92

megalomaniak said:


> Just got balanced cable for the LCD-2 and my first impressions are that seems the soundstage has improved, at least imaging is clearer and soundstage a bit wider. Just a quick impression.


 

 Seems like what going balanced generally does. I'm curious once you get more time with it of course, if you prefer SE or balanced overall with lcd 2. Because I am considering going with your set up, v281 with balanced cable for the lcd 2. It seems balanced is the better way to go if you have the v281 since you essentially get an entire v220 driving each channel, and have much more power.


----------



## Megalomaniak

saxelrod92 said:


> Seems like what going balanced generally does. I'm curious once you get more time with it of course, if you prefer SE or balanced overall with lcd 2. Because I am considering going with your set up, v281 with balanced cable for the lcd 2. It seems balanced is the better way to go if you have the v281 since you essentially get an entire v220 driving each channel, and have much more power.


 
  
 Balanced channel seems to be a tad more neutral, or at least it works like that with the LCD-2s, giving them a bit more air and soundstage plus separation. I have to decide which one I prefer too, but for the moment Im sticking with the balanced one.
  
 They havent loss a single bit of bass or mids, but the wider soundstage gives it better separation and that improves the overall sound. In fact, I was listening to this CD (Andrew Ridgeley) that I know very well and I felt more texture in the bass guitar due to this better separation, it allows you to perceive more details.
  
 For me, V200/V220 improve the sound of the LCD-2 to the top level, pushing the mids and bass, and clearing the treble with detail. The balanced channel of the V281 gives more air and separation with all that "top level improvement" of before.
  
 Also the balanced channel is not agressive at all, its as refined as the SE mode (if not even more).


----------



## saxelrod92

megalomaniak said:


> Balanced channel seems to be a tad more neutral, or at least it works like that with the LCD-2s, giving them a bit more air and soundstage plus separation. I have to decide which one I prefer too, but for the moment Im sticking with the balanced one.
> 
> They havent loss a single bit of bass or mids, but the wider soundstage gives it better separation and that improves the overall sound. In fact, I was listening to this CD (Andrew Ridgeley) that I know very well and I felt more texture in the bass guitar due to this better separation, it allows you to perceive more details.
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting, from what you're saying it almost seems like going balanced is like a bonus on top of the things it does great with lcd 2. I'll have to choose SE or balanced since I'm getting a custom cable for them, and I don't want to bother with those pigtail type designs where you just swap adapters around, I like having a single cable that does one thing, so I'll need to choose one or the other as a optimum choice. But so far it seems like the original plan of going balanced as I said before is still a good way to go.


----------



## Megalomaniak

saxelrod92 said:


> Interesting, from what you're saying it almost seems like going balanced is like a bonus on top of the things it does great with lcd 2. I'll have to choose SE or balanced since I'm getting a custom cable for them, and I don't want to bother with those pigtail type designs where you just swap adapters around, I like having a single cable that does one thing, so I'll need to choose one or the other as a optimum choice. But so far it seems like the original plan of going balanced as I said before is still a good way to go.


 
  
 You could go Balanced and order a simple XLR to jack adapter. I do have both cables, but thats for me a good option in order to switch quickly.
  
 My balanced cable is also custom made, neutrik connectors and silver wiring.


----------



## saxelrod92

megalomaniak said:


> You could go Balanced and order a simple XLR to jack adapter. I do have both cables, but thats for me a good option in order to switch quickly.
> 
> My balanced cable is also custom made, neutrik connectors and silver wiring.


 

 I actually didn't realize there were adapters to go balanced to 1/4 in lol. I always though it had to be some sort of pigtail set up where the cable ends with a mini xlr and you have to have a short bit of cable that attaches onto it and ends with whatever connector you wanted. those I kinda don't like, but the adapter is good to know about. I was looking at getting a Norne cable, this one in particular http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/Norne-Vanquish-OCC-Litz-Headphone-Cable-Audeze-Hifiman-Sennheiser-AKG-Astell-Kern-AK240 and have it terminate in the 4 pin xlr.


----------



## Megalomaniak

saxelrod92 said:


> I actually didn't realize there were adapters to go balanced to 1/4 in lol. I always though it had to be some sort of pigtail set up where the cable ends with a mini xlr and you have to have a short bit of cable that attaches onto it and ends with whatever connector you wanted. those I kinda don't like, but the adapter is good to know about. I was looking at getting a Norne cable, this one in particular http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/Norne-Vanquish-OCC-Litz-Headphone-Cable-Audeze-Hifiman-Sennheiser-AKG-Astell-Kern-AK240 and have it terminate in the 4 pin xlr.


 
  
 Mine does use a 4-pin XLR too, my cable:
  

  
 And the SE cable is just like that but with 1/4 in jack.
  
 Of course there is a balanced to SE adapter, just a 3 or 4 pin balanced female to a jack male, but you wont use the balanced function of course.


----------



## saxelrod92

megalomaniak said:


> Mine does use a 4-pin XLR too, my cable:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Very nice looking cable 
 I'm planning to probably get a similar color for mine lol, that or just bare where you see the wires. Yea of course if you used the adapter it is no longer balanced, just interesting to me that i never had the thought that theres adapters to go from 3 or 4 pin xlr to 1/4 in, it seems much more obvious now lol. I learned something new haha.


----------



## Armaegis

I just want to reiterate for those who may not know:
 - if your headphone cable terminates in a TRS, *do not *make an adapter to go balanced. Reterminate the headphone.
 - if your headphone cable terminates in anything with a 4-pin, making an adapter to go TRS is usually ok.


----------



## Megalomaniak

"Deep Purple - Machine Head", just wow!


----------



## roskodan

let's get it started 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 what's the source and what pre-gain settings do you use?


----------



## Megalomaniak

roskodan said:


> let's get it started
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sources are:
  
 - Musical Fidelity V-DAC II via coaxial input 24/192 (this DAC uses a DSD1792 chip, high quality here! and its very neutral and transparent with good dynamics, I love it!).
 - Technics MK5 SL1210 Turntable w/ Ortofon Concorde Pro S needle, going through the Technics SU-Z45 vintage amp as preamp (superb transparency), and then to the V281.


----------



## roskodan

what pre-gain settings do you use?


----------



## project86

I'm on -6 and it works well for most stuff. HE-6 needs full volume and even then it's not quite loud enough, but most other headphones are good with -6. Background is nice and quiet for CIEMs. 

I suppose it depends on your DAC though. Something with a low output voltage wouldn't do as well, so a higher pre gain setting would be called for. Nice to have all these options available though!


----------



## Byrnie

armaegis said:


> I just want to reiterate for those who may not know:
> - if your headphone cable terminates in a TRS, *do not* make an adapter to go balanced. Reterminate the headphone.
> - if your headphone cable terminates in anything with a 4-pin, making an adapter to go TRS is usually ok.



Good to know man, thanks.


----------



## Zkadoush

fdg said:


> *Finally we managed to measure V220 and V281.
> For a better comparison we added the data from V200. *
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Hi Fried,

 Nice to see the fantastic specs of these world class Amps!

 Now that the specs are available, I am curious regarding a comment you made earlier in the thread:

 "If you want superb D/A conversion and a (nearly) perfect unbalanced headphone amp stay with HPA V200 + DAC V800
 If you want more flexibility concerning inputs/outputs, some more hopefully helpful features and a perfect headphone amp go for V220 / V281."

 By the specs above, the V200 is clearly the better Amp (higher damping factor, better crosstalk performance, etc.), yet you suggest that the V200 is a "nearly" perfect Amp, while the V281 would be a "perfect" Amp. Do you mean that the superb comfort offered by the features of the V281 (Balanced & SE Amp, PreAmp, remote, balance control pot, I/O, etc.) makes the "perfect" Amp, or do you mean specifically audio performance?

 At the moment I am looking to upgrade my V100, and the obvious upgrade was the V200 until the V220 and 281 came along. I am of course also interested in the balanced Amp as a possible sonic upgrade for my HD 800s, and if the included V220 is also significantly better than the V200, it would of course also be the option to go for. You also mention that the V220 is "beefier" than the V200, and some head-fiers have suggested a larger or more open soundstage. You also mentioned that the V220 has a larger power supply. Is the different power supply responsible for the difference between V200 and V220?

 Another question I always forget asking you: do you have any future plans to make an Amp for electrostatic headphones?

 I am also very intersted in the upcoming DACs that you described, any news on their release?

 Schöne Grüße aus Neu Zealand


----------



## fdg

Hello Zkadoush,
  
 not only you but also some others are a bit puzzled of the specs from V220 / V281 compared with V200.
  
 V200 is a headphone amp with perhaps the best data a headphone amp can have.
 This is because inside the case of V200 there is nothing but a headphone amp and so no additional circuitry may aggravate the performance.
  
 Inside V220 there is about 3 times the components of V200 with lots of nice features and we managed to keep the nearly perfect overall perfomance except the output impedance which was 0,083 Ohms with V200 and no has risen by 0,017 Ohms to 0,1 Ohm for V220.
 There are some minor issues concerning the crosstalk ... to be honest, dont care about crosstalk as long as it is better than 60 dB !!
 There are some people out there prefering "crossfeed" to minimise crosstalk to 10 - 20 dB.
  
 But because of the more powerful supply the output power and output voltage from V220 is better than from V200 !!
  
 Lets talk about sports cars: Yes, the acceleration from the Porsche GT4 is still better than the one from the Mercedes SL AMG.
 But I myself would prefer a car with some remaining suspension to ride more comfortabel on 99.9 % of the roads and forgo some advantages which are perhaps noticeable when driving Indianapolis or Sebring.
  
 V220 versus V281:
 Yes, V281 has double the output impedance compared to V220 but unfortunaltely this is normal physics because you have double the amps.
 And of course the noise figure from V281 is 6 dB worse because of 2 x more noise sources = amps inside !
 But these "issues" are compensated by double the output voltage - so at last the dynamic range (129 dB) from all amps is the same !
  
 By now we dont have plans for electrostatic headphones.
 There is a high dynamic in the developement of new and better dynamic and magnetostatic headphones while the developement efforts for electrostatic headphones seem to be a bit static in the moment (funny sentence).
  
 But we are preparing new DACs - dont know when they will be ready and dont want to promise anything ...
  
 Greetings to Down Under and the rest of the world from rainy South Germany.
  
 Fried


----------



## Megalomaniak

roskodan said:


> what pre-gain settings do you use?


 
 Ops, 0, no one selected.
  
 But I cant go past 12'clock, even less in every headphone.
  
 @Zkadoush From a customer opinion, I can asure you that you wont see a single difference between the crosstalk, damping factor and etc from a V200 to a V220 or V281, these 3 have it very low.
  
 You may see a difference between the V200 and V281 in the most sensitive headphones with low impedance such as IEMs due to the 0.2 impedance, but I wouldnt connect a IEM via balanced mode hahaha, so if you connect them to the SE mode in the V281 is still a V220.
  
 Balanced D7000 for example, which is a very sensitive headphone, doesnt work very well with some balanced amps (expensive ones), but with the V281 works magnificent. Mine is TRS not XLR tho.


----------



## roskodan

fdg said:


> Greetings to Down Under and the rest of the world from rainy South Germany.
> 
> Fried


 
 yup haven't seen a day without rain and/or thunder this summer
  
 btw, are the jumpers for the ac/dc coupling, input and general ground settings available on the V220/281?


----------



## FredrikT92

So, for the avarage guy, like myself, who want a versatile amp, the V220 might be better option then a V281? Or is the V281 still superior for headphones which doesnt require a lot of power like HE-6?


----------



## Megalomaniak

fredrikt92 said:


> So, for the avarage guy, like myself, who want a versatile amp, the V220 might be better option then a V281? Or is the V281 still superior for headphones which doesnt require a lot of power like HE-6?


 
  
 To my ears, SE mode on the V281 (works like the V220) is wonderful with the LCD-2s or HD800s, works superb. Balanced channel improves soundstage and separation, adds a bit of air without losing any body, bass or anything, but both outputs have enough power for everything.
  
 So, if you want to improve what balanced channel can give you, then go balanced. Also, I think that balanced channel is only for power hungry headphones such as LCD, Hifimans, etc. (planar headphones) and maybe HD800, T1 and some other dynamics.


----------



## Jodet

Are the V220's in stock yet?


----------



## saxelrod92

jodet said:


> Are the V220's in stock yet?


 

 If you're using the US store then not yet. I was PM'd by Arthur (the guy who runs it) a couple weeks back asking about this, and I figure by now it's fine to say it on the thread. So he said they will ship mid august. Probably in a week or so from today. Unless something has changed recently of course. This is if you place a pre-order on the site right now.


----------



## Zkadoush

Hi Fried,

 Thanks for your response and patience with all my questions.
 Your kind answers point me to one last little question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





:

 As you mentioned you will be offering a downsized version of the V800 DAC - less versatility and features yet same performance level -, is there a chance you will be offering a balanced Amp like the V281 without the SE V220 on board (a downsized V281)?
 My question comes from understanding the audio performance specs of the V200 being better than V220 and V281 due to less amount of on board components, and thus the logical question would be if it wouldn't be interesting to have a standalone V281 - without the V220 -, to take advantage of the best possible performance for those who only want a Balanced Amp?

 Greetz to good old Germany and rainy Konstanz.

 Cheers!


----------



## fdg

@ roskodan

V220 / V281 are not DC coupled any more - too dangerous for the ears and the headphones as you may damage both accidentially with ease ...
Ground-Lift jumpers for the balanced inputs / outputs are still inside, however partly uncomfortable to set as there may be another PCB on top.
The general ground lift is easy accessible.
Also there is a voltage selector inside to change the AC voltage in a comfortable way.

Tuesday next week I can wave to you from above on my way to Turkey )


@ Jodet

We are working hard to have a stock in the future
By now we are still working on preorders.

We are a real manufacturer, no sub contractor behind who will put several 100 pieces of gear in the stock room.
Every single amp is built in the factory by hand piece by piece and there are about 700 pieces to assemble until a V281 is completed.
This takes its time, specially in times of vacation ...


@ Zkadoush

There will be a upsized and a downsized version of V800 in the future.
If there will be a low feature V281 in the future I can not say in the moment. We must first check what the customers think about V281.

Also, the noise figure and the damping factor will not alter with such an amp, perhaps there will be improvements concerning crosstalk.

In the moment the response for V220 / V281 is amazing but this should stay for several months/years.

Those who own V220 / V281 by now are sort of "pioneers", trusting in our skills to set up remarkable gear.
I expect there will be much more interest when the first reviews are out ... and we will have delivery time like Mercedes in the 70ties )

Greetz

Fried


----------



## Xenophon

fdg said:


> @ Zkadoush
> 
> There will be a upsized and a downsized version of V800 in the future.
> If there will be a low feature V281 in the future I can not say in the moment. We must first check what the customers think about V281.
> ...


 
 Well, don't go to that kind of delivery times is what I'd say.  Nowadays I can just purchase one out of the showroom.  Tested a BMW i8 too, terrific car, incredible technology...but a wait until Q2-Q3 of 2015 to get one.  Choices, choices. 
  
 Looking forward to see what you're going to do with the V800, squeezing more out of it would be a real feat, I especially like the resampling options (the fact that it can be switched off if desired).  Going to include some filter options?


----------



## Megalomaniak

Im interested in a downsized V800 too, beacuse I dont really need all those features the V800 has, I only need usb/coaxial/tosslink inputs and xlr/rca outputs. Nothing more, and oh, of course, the performance of the V800 haha.


----------



## Suopermanni

I'm sure that this has been asked before but I'm only going to be using single ended cables on my HPs, would there be any use for the V280 vs. the 220?


----------



## project86

suopermanni said:


> I'm sure that this has been asked before but I'm only going to be using single ended cables on my HPs, would there be any use for the V281 vs. the 220?


 
  
 Not for the moment. The only thing would be if you eventually plan to recable your headphones (or buy some new ones with a balanced cabled). Then you'd be ready to go with the V281 balanced output. If you don't think that will likely be the case any time soon, then V220 seems like a reasonable choice.


----------



## project86

Just wanted to relate a story about something mildly amusing that happened yesterday. I was messing with the system, moving things in and out, and I ended up getting a bit mixed up (as I sometimes do since the system changes so often). I was using the V281 with balanced LCD-3. Source was an Aurender X100L music server connected via USB to a fairly expensive DAC which will remain nameless (since I'm not sure if I'll be reviewing it or not). The DAC has a four figure price tag.
  
 So I'm listening, having a good time, browsing through some reference tracks, and I'm not noticing anything huge jump out at me - neither amazingly good, nor annoyingly bad. It's just a solid, satisfying performance, perhaps not the best I've heard but definitely respectable. Then I notice the screen says "VIO ASYNCH 24/192". This is where the Aurender tells you what DAC it's paired with. I thought for a second it was a typo, that maybe the DAC uses a USB chipset from VIA.... but then I noticed I was actually using the USB input on the V281 rather than the stand-alone DAC. 
  
 Keep in mind, the USB DAC add on is a $240 option. For it to fool me and not draw attention away from the expensive stand-alone unit, is pretty impressive. Most DACs I've heard in the sub $300 range would have been pretty clearly inferior, to the point where I think I would notice rather quickly.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, Mr.Fried macht keine Gefangenen.


----------



## Zkadoush

> @ Zkadoush
> 
> There will be a upsized and a downsized version of V800 in the future.
> If there will be a low feature V281 in the future I can not say in the moment. We must first check what the customers think about V281.
> ...


 

 Thanks again for your kind answer, Fried.

 I have only recently tried out my HD 800s in balanced mode (well, right now I can afford any Amp up to 3K), and I am pretty much convinced of the benefits. So much that I would not consider necessary an Amp with SE headphone output(s) if I'm already happy with 4pin XLR balanced output. The same goes for a downsized V800. Especially if a standalone V281 (or V282, as you had in mind some time ago) can better the specs of the V181, and if a downsized V800 can maintain and/or better the specs of the current V800.

 Right now, my dilemma is pretty much getting the best Amp possible, and so far I have only been able to audition Auralic's Taurus and Sennheiser's HDVD 800. The other two Amps in mind are of course the V281 and Questyle's CMA800R, which according to project86, pairs exceptionally well with the HD 800s.

 I have to say that I have been impressed by both the Auralic and the Sennheiser, but perhaps especially with the Sennheiser. My experience with the SE output of the Sennheiser is as satisfactory as that with SE of the Taurus, but I heard a greater and more favorable difference between SE and balanced outputs with the Sennheiser. I will have the chance to audition them side by side next week, and that will certainly be an interesting listening. I would of course love to have a 281 for comparison.

 The only downside of the Sennheiser, is that specs are virtually inexistent, which is a big marketing flaw in my opinion, as the Amps sounds great. The specs listed are however bested by the V281. Despite the specs of the V200 being slightly better than those of the V281, the 281 is still ahead of the Taurus specwise, and has more to offer for the same price in my humble opinion. I love the bass of my V100, but the Sennheiser is more refined, detailed and has an airier presentation, and apparently as much power on tap as the Taurus. The Sennheiser might not be as quiet as the Taurus, and perhaps this is due to higher gain, but it's impossible to tell since no specs are offered by Sennheiser regarding gain or output power into different loads.

 I will be writing a couple of impressions when auditioning the Senn with the Auralic, but I might simply be a stubborn and die hard Violectric fan and go for the V281 anyhow, lol.

 Cheers


----------



## Megalomaniak

zkadoush said:


> Thanks again for your kind answer, Fried.
> 
> I have only recently tried out my HD 800s in balanced mode (well, right now I can afford any Amp up to 3K), and I am pretty much convinced of the benefits. So much that I would not consider necessary an Amp with SE headphone output(s) if I'm already happy with 4pin XLR balanced output. The same goes for a downsized V800. Especially if a standalone V281 (or V282, as you had in mind some time ago) can better the specs of the V181, and if a downsized V800 can maintain and/or better the specs of the current V800.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Based on its power consumption, HDVD800 doesnt deilver as much power as the Taurus or V281, the HDVD800 is specifically designed for the HD800, so the combo is a sure-go, but the key of the HDVD800 for the HD800 is the output impedance, which is rated in 16 ohm.
  
 So, as the HDVD800 is a great amp for the HD800, I believe that you wont use it only for Sennheisers, bear in mind, V281, Taurus or CMA800R should be better options.
  
 I can assure you that the HD800 out of XLR output do sound airy, controlled, tight, with muscle and detailed with the V281.


----------



## Fegefeuer

HDVD800's output impedance is 43 Ohms.


----------



## Megalomaniak

Right, 16 ohms is in SE /facepalm.


----------



## project86

16 ohms or 43 ohms are not unreasonable output impedances..... for a tube amp. 
  
 Let's take a look at some of the current top solid state amps on the market. The Auralic Taurus is <1 ohm for SE output and ~3 ohms for the XLR. Questyle CMA800R is <1 ohm. V200, V220, and V281 are <1 ohm. Phonitor 2 is <1 ohm. GS-X 2 is <1 ohm. Do you see the trend?
  
 What was Sennheiser thinking? I suppose it's not too terrible for damping factor on a 300 ohm model like HD800. Not quite ideal, especially with balanced output, but not terrible. But did they think nobody would want to use their own IE800? Or HD598? Or Grado, Audio Technica, Ultrasone, etc?


----------



## Byrnie

project86 said:


> 16 ohms or 43 ohms are not unreasonable output impedances..... for a tube amp.
> 
> Let's take a look at some of the current top solid state amps on the market. The Auralic Taurus is <1 ohm for SE output and ~3 ohms for the XLR. Questyle CMA800R is <1 ohm. V200, V220, and V281 are <1 ohm. Phonitor 2 is <1 ohm. GS-X 2 is <1 ohm. Do you see the trend?
> 
> What was Sennheiser thinking? I suppose it's not too terrible for damping factor on a 300 ohm model like HD800. Not quite ideal, especially with balanced output, but not terrible. But did they think nobody would want to use their own IE800? Or HD598? Or Grado, Audio Technica, Ultrasone, etc?


 
 I believe it's 16 ohm output impedance, they advertise it's supposed to work with the HD700 also and that's 150 ohm.  But yea 16 isn't that bad and perfect for highly impedance headphones.


----------



## saxelrod92

So after some back and forth with Arthur who runs the Violectric USA store, I am now the first person in all of North America who has bought a V281. The other ones are loaners review units. It was a stroke of luck and perfect timing too, because I asked him only today for an update on pre-order status etc, and it just so happens he got the first 4 shipments in from germany just today, didn't even open the boxes yet, and out of those 4 only two of them are V281's and only one of those is in black, with standard volume, and gold feet, which is the version I wanted. The rest are all silver/varying volume options. And it will be 3 more weeks for another shipment after these.
  
 I had no clue how few of these were in North America right now lol. I've never been the first person to buy an electronics product ever, so I feel good that of all things it was something as nice as a V281 made by a wonderful guy.
  
 If everything ships well, I'll be hearing it by the end of the week. now just need to order the balanced cable for my lcd 2's lol.
  
 Edit- I will post a review of the V281 shortly after I receive it and the cable to this thread as well as to the V281 head-fi product page.


----------



## JES

saxelrod92 said:


> So after some back and forth with Arthur who runs the Violectric USA store, I am now the first person in all of North America who has bought a V281. The other ones are loaners review units. It was a stroke of luck and perfect timing too, because I asked him only today for an update on pre-order status etc, and it just so happens he got the first 4 shipments in from germany just today, didn't even open the boxes yet, and out of those 4 only two of them are V281's and only one of those is in black, with standard volume, and gold feet, which is the version I wanted. The rest are all silver/varying volume options. And it will be 3 more weeks for another shipment after these.
> 
> I had no clue how few of these were in North America right now lol. I've never been the first person to buy an electronics product ever, so I feel good that of all things it was something as nice as a V281 made by a wonderful guy.
> 
> ...




I haven't posted in this thread but I've been keeping my eye on it with great interest. Congratulations and good luck. I look forward to reading your impressions.


----------



## saxelrod92

jes said:


> I haven't posted in this thread but I've been keeping my eye on it with great interest. Congratulations and good luck. I look forward to reading your impressions.


 

 Thank you 
  
 I just ordered the balanced cable, so it will arrive in about two weeks worth of business days. So I'll probably post first impressions using SE on here, and write the full review for the product page after the cable arrives and I hear it in balanced mode finally. The amp will be here by the end of the week most likely or first thing next week.


----------



## project86

Excellent! You will not be disappointed. Also, black with gold feet is a handsome choice. I can't decide which one I like more.

And yes, these are slow in coming out of the factory. Violectric does not outsource construction in the way some others do to save time/money. So each one is lovingly hand assembled by workers who earn a good wage, which is always something worth supporting when it comes to a "luxury" product like this.


----------



## saxelrod92

project86 said:


> Excellent! You will not be disappointed. Also, black with gold feet is a handsome choice. I can't decide which one I like more.
> 
> And yes, these are slow in coming out of the factory. Violectric does not outsource construction in the way some others do to save time/money. So each one is lovingly hand assembled by workers who earn a good wage, which is always something worth supporting when it comes to a "luxury" product like this.


 

 Absolutely! The fact it was made by people who were happy and loved what they were doing definitely played a small role in my overall decision vs something else.


----------



## Zkadoush

project86 said:


> 16 ohms or 43 ohms are not unreasonable output impedances..... for a tube amp.
> 
> Let's take a look at some of the current top solid state amps on the market. The Auralic Taurus is <1 ohm for SE output and ~3 ohms for the XLR. Questyle CMA800R is <1 ohm. V200, V220, and V281 are <1 ohm. Phonitor 2 is <1 ohm. GS-X 2 is <1 ohm. Do you see the trend?
> 
> What was Sennheiser thinking? I suppose it's not too terrible for damping factor on a 300 ohm model like HD800. Not quite ideal, especially with balanced output, but not terrible. But did they think nobody would want to use their own IE800? Or HD598? Or Grado, Audio Technica, Ultrasone, etc?





Totally Agree!! That is very disappointing indeed. Why bother making an Amp with the characteristics and price of the HDVD 800 (or HDVA 600) if you're just going to mess it up with such an obvious and avoidable flaw? Well, so much for considering the Sennheiser Amp; Hasta la Vista! At least now I'm down to three, lol.

For now, my impression is that although the Taurus has an airier presentation then than my V100, I feel my Violectric to be more engaging and perhaps a tad more detailed from it's SE output. The Taurus' balanced output takes the lead, though. Anyhow, I'm not in a rush, so I'll keep listening to all Amps I can get my hands on to get more reference points. Next up is the Bakoon HPA-21.

Thanks Megalomaniak and Fegefeur for the valuable info on the HDVD 800's output impedance.


Cheers


----------



## Zkadoush

Trade-offs, Pros & Cons and difficult decisions.

 When you finally have all the money to go and buy yourself a top-tier Amp, the difficulty to find the right Amp can soon take the juice out of your enthusiasm.
 "To have all the money" - in my case - means 3K (I have another amount set aside for a Benchmark DAC2 D, Benchmark AHB2 and a pair of Benchmark SMS1s, if reviews for the monitors prove favorable and once more specs are provided). That rules out the most expensive flagship Amps, like Cavalli, Ray Samuels, Apex and Crayon, and leaves you with a fabulous bunch of Amps below the 3K mark, like the Auralic Taurus, Questyle CMA800R (or two), Headamp GS-XMkII, RedWine Cassabria & Bellina, and of course the mighty Violectric V281.

 The reality is that no Amp is absolutely perfect, in the sense that no Amp will do everything perfectly, so basically you have to work your way through a maze of trade-offs and pros and cons until you reach a conclusion and hit the buy button. Besides that, most of these Amps are relatively esoteric pieces of gear that aren't at the hifi shop around the corner, and many don't even exist before you place an order with a juicy deposit. So, not only do the real-life limitations and vicissitudes of design, implementation, cost and manufacturer's business strategies make your final decision harder, but also real-life availability conspire to rob you of your initial enthusiasm. Then there's of course the new flagship released in the midst of you having managed to narrow it down to a well reasoned shortlist, and there you go again, back into the maze of trade-offs and your checklist.

 I was initially impressed and enthusiastic about the Sennheiser HDVD 800. It includes an apparently decent D/A converter - no digital specs whatsoever provided by Sennheiser - and a fabulous match for my HD 800s. Then a couple of more conscientious and knowledgeable head-fiers drop the truth on me: the SE ouput of the Sennheiser has a 16Ohm output impedance, and the balanced output triples it! As much as I love my HD 800s above every other headphone, I still own a K702, a Q701 - that I want to upgrade for balanced mode - as well as the remote hope to find a decently imaging magnetic-planar headphone in the future (the Audeze LCD-X is the only planar-magnetic headphone I find enjoyable at all). Bad for the great match to my HD 800s, good for the further decantation of my shortlist. Talk about of trade-offs!

 I do fancy the awesome build quality of the Taurus and its dead silent and pitch black background, but the presentation I get from the SE output is something I just simply can't come to terms with. This is most likely due to me being used to the more up close presentation of my V100 than anything else, but I get the feeling that some instruments, or even parts of instruments - being a drummer/percussionist I tend to focus on percussive cues - are drastically more distant. For example, the hi-hat of some tracks - and I'm talking about very good recordings - sounds as if it was being played at a different front to back localization than the drums. My guess is that what I perceive as an airier presentation of the Taurus is more instrument separation, and thus spatial cues are differently presented by the Auralic in comparison to my Violectric. Nevertheless, I sat there for nearly 2 hours and couldn't get used to it, pretty much the way your brain struggles with a new pair glasses the first week. The balanced output is a different story, it appears more coherent and more pleasantly and convincingly spacious than the SE output, and I could certainly live with it. But that's only half the Amp for the whole price.

 I can't say much about the other contenders on my shortlist as I have no chance to audition any of them. But if I have to follow the trade-off balance and the pros and cons on my checklist, the V281 takes the lead in overall measured performance, features and functionality. Questyle and Headamp are a tie in build quality, although the CMA800R takes the lead in measured performance. They are also a relative tie in a matter of functionality, but since I'm looking for a Headamp and not really for a Preamp - despite both CMA800R and GS-XMkII including that functionality -, the dual mono CMA800R pair would probably score the highest in sheer SQ, which _is_ what I'm out for.

 The few dealers here in Auckland, New Zealand, that have serious Headamps (Audio Reference, Reference Audio (really!), NZAudio, Soundline and especially Computer Lounge) do have Headamp (Computer Lounge) and Violectric (NZAudio), but are currently not bringing in the GS-XMkII (which has a extra long waiting time), and anything above the V100. (Perhaps not so few dealers considering Auckland is dwarfed by any larger American city.) Nobody has even heard of Questyle yet, but I have insisted on the great reviews they have already earned, and shared the links in the hope that someone will take the leap. The other more far-fetched - if not outright ridiculous - option would be to grab a cheap $300 ticket to Australia to visit some friends in Melbourne and drive to Addicted to Audio, who are dead serious about their head-fi gear, and perhaps more likely to have the V281 and the CMA800R in store in the relatively near future.

 Anyhow, I took my chances with the V100 without ever listening to it, and based only on measured performance and impressions of fellow head-fiers, and needless to say, it was an absolute bullseye. I could well do the same with the V281, but I can't help but wish for Fried to release a standalone balanced V281 (or V282) with better measured performance than the V181 and without the V220 in the same box. Such an Amp, along with the announced downsized version of the V800 DAC, or a pair of CMA800Rs with a couple of pre-gain settings; or a GS-XMkII with a SNR as good as the Taurus or the V281 would be my bullseye(s) right now. But as I began writing, it's a game of trade-offs and pros and cons, and I'll have to play by the rules no matter how arbitrary and unfriendly they appear to my hard earned bucks.

 Cheers!


----------



## Byrnie

zkadoush said:


> I do fancy the awesome build quality of the Taurus and its dead silent and pitch black background, but the presentation I get from the SE output is something I just simply can't come to terms with. This is most likely due to me being used to the more up close presentation of my V100 than anything else, but I get the feeling that some instruments, or even parts of instruments - being a drummer/percussionist I tend to focus on percussive cues - are drastically more distant. For example, the hi-hat of some tracks - and I'm talking about very good recordings - sounds as if it was being played at a different front to back localization than the drums. My guess is that what I perceive as an airier presentation of the Taurus is more instrument separation, and thus spatial cues are differently presented by the Auralic in comparison to my Violectric. Nevertheless, I sat there for nearly 2 hours and couldn't get used to it, pretty much the way your brain struggles with a new pair glasses the first week. The balanced output is a different story, it appears more coherent and more pleasantly and convincingly spacious than the SE output, and I could certainly live with it. But that's only half the Amp for the whole price.
> 
> I can't say much about the other contenders on my shortlist as I have no chance to audition any of them. But if I have to follow the trade-off balance and the pros and cons on my checklist, the V281 takes the lead in overall measured performance, features and functionality. Questyle and Headamp are a tie in build quality, although the CMA800R takes the lead in measured performance. The CMA800R and the Headamp GS-XMkII are a relative tie in a matter of functionality, but since I'm looking for a Headamp and not really for a Preamp - despite both CMA800R and GS-XMkII including that functionality -, the dual mono CMA800R pair would probably score the highest in sheer SQ, which _is_ what I'm out for.
> 
> ...


 
 I had the same problem with the AURALiC but it grew on my rather quickly after having it for 2 weeks to demo.  Don't get caught up on the specs (SNR in this case) of these amps, the GSX is uber quiet also.  All of the ones you mentioned are very quiet..  Why not see if Fried will let you demo it as someone mentioned he has a bunch out for demo?


----------



## saxelrod92

zkadoush said:


> Trade-offs, Pros & Cons and difficult decisions.
> 
> When you finally have all the money to go and buy yourself a top-tier Amp, the difficulty to find the right Amp can soon take the juice out of your enthusiasm.
> "To have all the money" - in my case - means 3K (I have another amount set aside for a Benchmark DAC2 D, Benchmark AHB2 and a pair of Benchmark SMS1s, if reviews for the monitors prove favorable and once more specs are provided). That rules out the most expensive flagship Amps, like Cavalli, Ray Samuels, Apex and Crayon, and leaves you with a fabulous bunch of Amps below the 3K mark, like the Auralic Taurus, Questyle CMA800R (or two), Headamp GS-XMkII, RedWine Cassabria & Bellina, and of course the mighty Violectric V281.
> ...


 

 As already mentioned don't take specs as the one and only deciding factor. A great example of this is anything using tubes. In the specs tube amps will seem like they should sound not so great compared to solid state, but in reality its those distortions and "bad" specs that end up creating that warmer sound signature that some people like. So same thing with solid state amps, it is much more important how the amp was built, and the design of the circuit, and the parts used, and the overall outcome of that which matters, even if the numbers don't blow everything else out of the water. Also as for a standalone V281 I don't know if it is actually possible to make it without also being capable of going SE simply because the way the V281 does balanced is simply by putting another whole V220 amp board on top of the first one. So you can't really have a balanced V281 without it also being able to go SE, it wouldn't change anything because it would have to be built the same way. Unless you imply for there to be an entirely different design that doesn't use two entire amps stacked on top of each other to achieve balanced operation? because in that case, your request makes sense. but from a business sense that would require creating a whole other third new amp from scratch and for it's balanced sound to match the one coming out of the current V281, even though it would not use two internal amp boards. Which would cost a good bit to figure out and ultimately make, as well as lots of time (these current amps took 2 years).
  
 Otherwise I definitely feel you about the search for the right amp when you actually have the money for it. I just spent the last 6 weeks doing this search for anything 1900 dollars or less to match my lcd 2 and denon d5000 and any future additions. I always wanted a V200 when I first heard of them nearly 2 years ago, but at that time I didnt have the lcd 2, only just got the denons and didn't realize the importance of amps and dacs just yet. So at that time the V200 just seemed like this insane 1000 dollar super amp that everybody loved. Then it just sorta disappeared from my focus until recently when I got to this point of searching for an amp that is well over 1000 dollars, and thats where the idea to see what Violectric had to offer came from. coming full circle. My timing happened to coincide with the announcment/initial release of the V281/220, right as I was going to get a V200. The only other amp I was considering was the Taurus MK II. But after much reading, talking back and forth with a guy who I share a similar sound signature preference with who tried the Taurus, I was able to determine that with my setup, and my song genres that the Taurus could end up being a bit too light/bright/neutral/transparent. So I kept coming back to Violectric. The other potential amp to look at is the Schiit Ragnarok which after todays posts was hinted at being released within the coming 2-4 weeks or so. maybe less, maybe a tad more, but definitely very soon before fall. But for me that amp just might have more features than I actually will ever need, like the fact it can drive speakers with 100 watts in each channel, and come down to 9 watts in each channel for headphones when balanced, or like 4-5 watts SE (maybe less). Plus pre-amp, plus being huge in size, and just capable of doing way more than simply sitting on my desk and powering a pair of planar headphones. So that combined with a potential unknown wait time, led me to commit to the V281 yesterday. I'm the first person in North America to buy it, which totally caught me off guard lol. But thankfully I did, because there was only one unit that was configured the way I wanted it to be, and unless you want the configs of whatever is left right now, there is a 3 week wait time for the next shipment (for the USA store that is, but I figure this is relatively true for any of the international retailers). 
  
 So I'd say if you keep coming back to your V100, then just settle for the V281 because I'm sure it will do all the things you like and more. Or you can wait a few more weeks to see how the schiit ragnarok turns out (if you are capable of receiving it there). Or try the Taurus for a longer period of time and go with that. If I was in your shoes, those would be the options, and considering two of those three options are amps that aren't even fully released yet, I'd say you can feel safe knowing there wont be something else new from these companies that matches this price point/performance point for a good little while. I mean after all the whole point in obsessing over the amp right now is so you can forget about it once it's in your system lol. because then you know it's doing it's job right.
  
 Good luck man, try not to drag it out too long, you'll feel much better once you decide on something, trust me


----------



## Zkadoush

Thanks Byrnie,

 I will consider your idea to ask Fried for a loaner. What has held me back so far is that here in New Zealand, you have to fill in a special form for any online purchase from abroad that is over NZ$1000, go through a specific "import" process and even pay extra fees that apply on top of the VAT, which is calculated including shipping costs! It's a very extreme case of a protectionist economy, and even gifts over NZ$100 will be taxed! That makes it all a bit unattractive and unfriendly, not to mention expensive and perhaps a bit unrealistic. I also think that Fried lends his Amps to guys that have more experience with gear than little me, and to highly experienced and sofisticated reviewers like project86, who also own a ton of gear as reference for realistic comparisons, etc. I guess it's worth a try, posing the questions to customs and doing the math. We'll see.

 The reason I appreciate SNR in an Amp is with the same reasoning Benchmark released their AHB2 Power Amp:

 "...an outboard DAC is only a partial solution to the High-Resolution Audio dilemma. A second key part of the problem is the performance of the audio power amplifier. A 24-bit audio system is useless if it passes through the typical power amplifier. It is nearly impossible to find power amplifiers that can deliver an SNR higher than about 102 dB. This is the equivalent of 17 bits (adequate for CD applications, but definitely not adequate for High-Resolution Audio). Anyone who thinks they can hear the difference between 16-bit and 24-bit digital audio through a "17-bit" power amplifier is fooling themselves." (John Siau http://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/news/13174001-what-is-high-resolution-audio-part-1)

 I'm not absolutely convinced that a well done recording in the limited format of redbook 16/44.1 CD, is distinctively audibly different to a 24/96 recording done with the highest standards, gear and with no ulterior mixing, compression and mastering, and thus preserving the entire dynamic range and bandwith of the original recording. There are few labels really doing anything close to that (like AIX records, MA recordings, and Soundkeeper Records), and I have yet to hear a comparison that offers a real-life and clearly (sufficiently) audible advantages, and of course with gear that can actually reproduce the difference (like a Benchmark AHB2 Power Amp, or a pair of Mola-Mola Kaluga monoblocks). The Violectric Amps, the CMA800R and the Taurus are the few headamps that approach that performance, and that also offer vanishingly low THD+N measurements which are as or more important than SNR, and that approach the very limits of an Audio Precision Analyzer.

 I think I was completely right to follow the measured performance when chosing my V100, and I have only come to confirm that, especially with really good recordings and sources. I think the next step beyond the performance of my V100 - which I bought when I only had my AKGs - is a balanced Amp and more voltage and current for my HD 800s and AKGs respectively, as well as a better D/A converter. Nevertheless, right now I'm trying to open up to the listening experience, as I have a chance to audition some very good Amps and try to form some reference points.

 Thnkas also for your comment about the Taurus.

 Cheers!


----------



## Byrnie

zkadoush said:


> Thanks Byrnie,
> 
> I will consider your idea to ask Fried for a loaner. What has held me back so far is that here in New Zealand, you have to fill in a special form for any online purchase from abroad that is over NZ$1000, go through a specific "import" process and even pay extra fees that apply on top of the VAT, which is calculated including shipping costs! It's a very extreme case of a protectionist economy, and even gifts over NZ$100 will be taxed! That makes it all a bit unattractive and unfriendly, not to mention expensive and perhaps a bit unrealistic. I also think that Fried lends his Amps to guys that have more experience with gear than little me, and to highly experienced and sofisticated reviewers like project86, who also own a ton of gear as reference for realistic comparisons, etc. I guess it's worth a try, posing the questions to customs and doing the math. We'll see.
> 
> ...


 
 The Ragnorak is going to blow your k702 up lol.  I would think given how much wattage it has that if you sneeze while playing with the volume you could melt your low impedance cans lol.  The best advice I've gotten in this hobby is from @purrin and @project86, they were both saying basically the same thing, they were basically saying, "Get whatever gets you into the music the most".  Good luck with your decisions and feel free to shoot me a pm if you wanna chat.  Couldn't you just buy one of these devices in Australia and fly/swim back with it (I'm kidding about swimming of course)?
  
 **Ooops you actually already mentioned taking a trip to Australia**


----------



## Zkadoush

saxelrod92 said:


> As already mentioned don't take specs as the one and only deciding factor. A great example of this is anything using tubes. In the specs tube amps will seem like they should sound not so great compared to solid state, but in reality its those distortions and "bad" specs that end up creating that warmer sound signature that some people like. So same thing with solid state amps, it is much more important how the amp was built, and the design of the circuit, and the parts used, and the overall outcome of that which matters, even if the numbers don't blow everything else out of the water. Also as for a standalone V281 I don't know if it is actually possible to make it without also being capable of going SE simply because the way the V281 does balanced is simply by putting another whole V220 amp board on top of the first one. So you can't really have a balanced V281 without it also being able to go SE, it wouldn't change anything because it would have to be built the same way. Unless you imply for there to be an entirely different design that doesn't use two entire amps stacked on top of each other to achieve balanced operation? because in that case, your request makes sense. but from a business sense that would require creating a whole other third new amp from scratch and for it's balanced sound to match the one coming out of the current V281, even though it would not use two internal amp boards. Which would cost a good bit to figure out and ultimately make, as well as lots of time (these current amps took 2 years).
> 
> Otherwise I definitely feel you about the search for the right amp when you actually have the money for it. I just spent the last 6 weeks doing this search for anything 1900 dollars or less to match my lcd 2 and denon d5000 and any future additions. I always wanted a V200 when I first heard of them nearly 2 years ago, but at that time I didnt have the lcd 2, only just got the denons and didn't realize the importance of amps and dacs just yet. So at that time the V200 just seemed like this insane 1000 dollar super amp that everybody loved. Then it just sorta disappeared from my focus until recently when I got to this point of searching for an amp that is well over 1000 dollars, and thats where the idea to see what Violectric had to offer came from. coming full circle. My timing happened to coincide with the announcment/initial release of the V281/220, right as I was going to get a V200. The only other amp I was considering was the Taurus MK II. But after much reading, talking back and forth with a guy who I share a similar sound signature preference with who tried the Taurus, I was able to determine that with my setup, and my song genres that the Taurus could end up being a bit too light/bright/neutral/transparent. So I kept coming back to Violectric. The other potential amp to look at is the Schiit Ragnarok which after todays posts was hinted at being released within the coming 2-4 weeks or so. maybe less, maybe a tad more, but definitely very soon before fall. But for me that amp just might have more features than I actually will ever need, like the fact it can drive speakers with 100 watts in each channel, and come down to 9 watts in each channel for headphones when balanced, or like 4-5 watts SE (maybe less). Plus pre-amp, plus being huge in size, and just capable of doing way more than simply sitting on my desk and powering a pair of planar headphones. So that combined with a potential unknown wait time, led me to commit to the V281 yesterday. I'm the first person in North America to buy it, which totally caught me off guard lol. But thankfully I did, because there was only one unit that was configured the way I wanted it to be, and unless you want the configs of whatever is left right now, there is a 3 week wait time for the next shipment (for the USA store that is, but I figure this is relatively true for any of the international retailers).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your rich and encouraging comment, saxelrod92. I agree with you, specs are important but being able to listen to an Amp before buying, can be just as important. One good example of that, is that although the Taurus is fabulously well built, dead silent and sports impressive specs, it isn't exactly what I was expecting. This certainly makes me feel stronger about actually getting the chance to listen to Amps before you pull the trigger. I would also agree with you that if I like my V100, it is very likely I will love a V281. Right now, and without chances to get to listen to one, the V281 is probably my safest bet.

 I understand what you say about it being difficult to design an V281 without a V220 in the same box, but I think Fried had something different in mind there, maybe I got it wrong. I mean the following comment/answer he made some posts ago:

 "@ Zkadoush
 There will be a upsized and a downsized version of V800 in the future.
 If there will be a low feature V281 in the future I can not say in the moment. We must first check what the customers think about V281.
 Also, the noise figure and the damping factor will not alter with such an amp, perhaps there will be improvements concerning crosstalk.
 In the moment the response for V220 / V281 is amazing but this should stay for several months/years."

 Right now I'm concentrating on taking the time to listen to as many different Amps as I can with my HD 800s, but in the end I will pull the trigger on one or the other... I think most likely a V281 or a pair of CMA800Rs

 Cheers


----------



## saxelrod92

zkadoush said:


> Thanks for your rich and encouraging comment, saxelrod92. I agree with you, specs are important but being able to listen to an Amp before buying, can be just as important. One good example of that, is that although the Taurus is fabulously well built, dead silent and sports impressive specs, it isn't exactly what I was expecting. This certainly makes me feel stronger about actually getting the chance to listen to Amps before you pull the trigger. I would also agree with you that if I like my V100, it is very likely I will love a V281. Right now, and without chances to get to listen to one, the V281 is probably my safest bet.
> 
> I understand what you say about it being difficult to design an V281 without a V220 in the same box, but I think Fried had something different in mind there, maybe I got it wrong. I mean the following comment/answer he made some posts ago:
> 
> ...


 

 Yea I saw that quote earlier, so I figure he meant a totally different third amp then, which as he also says would be in the not too soon future. Anyways though good luck with the listening trials, and hopefully you'll find just the right amp


----------



## Megalomaniak

saxelrod92 said:


> Otherwise I definitely feel you about the search for the right amp when you actually have the money for it. I just spent the last 6 weeks doing this search for anything 1900 dollars or less to match my lcd 2 and denon d5000 and any future additions. I always wanted a V200 when I first heard of them nearly 2 years ago, but at that time I didnt have the lcd 2, only just got the denons and didn't realize the importance of amps and dacs just yet. So at that time the V200 just seemed like this insane 1000 dollar super amp that everybody loved. Then it just sorta disappeared from my focus until recently when I got to this point of searching for an amp that is well over 1000 dollars, and thats where the idea to see what Violectric had to offer came from. coming full circle. My timing happened to coincide with the announcment/initial release of the V281/220, right as I was going to get a V200. The only other amp I was considering was the Taurus MK II. But after much reading, talking back and forth with a guy who I share a similar sound signature preference with who tried the Taurus, I was able to determine that with my setup, and my song genres that the Taurus could end up being a bit too light/bright/neutral/transparent. So I kept coming back to Violectric. The other potential amp to look at is the Schiit Ragnarok which after todays posts was hinted at being released within the coming 2-4 weeks or so. maybe less, maybe a tad more, but definitely very soon before fall. But for me that amp just might have more features than I actually will ever need, like the fact it can drive speakers with 100 watts in each channel, and come down to 9 watts in each channel for headphones when balanced, or like 4-5 watts SE (maybe less). Plus pre-amp, plus being huge in size, and just capable of doing way more than simply sitting on my desk and powering a pair of planar headphones. So that combined with a potential unknown wait time, led me to commit to the V281 yesterday. I'm the first person in North America to buy it, which totally caught me off guard lol. But thankfully I did, because there was only one unit that was configured the way I wanted it to be, and unless you want the configs of whatever is left right now, there is a 3 week wait time for the next shipment (for the USA store that is, but I figure this is relatively true for any of the international retailers).


 
  
 Wow, you just described myself.
  
 Years ago, I bought the Matrix M-Stage HPA, my first headamp (as before I was using an Integrated Estereo Amp from Technics, which has power but 20-30 of output impedance), one of the very first versions out of ebay when it was almost hidden here in the forums and a few brave ones bought it. I got a nice deal (200€) from ebay and read a review that classified it as a "lehmman bcl clone", so I pulled the trigger.
  
 Back then I only wanted to move mid-fi dynamic headphones such as K701, DT880, HD600, DT770, HD650, etc. so no better amp was wanted. But around 2 years ago I started to read about the mighty planar magnetic LCD-2 headphones and its fabulous sound, and also, the V200 came up in the readings, so I started to dig in how the LCDs performed until I finally tried them and... Bought them.
  
 So of course after that, I needed a new amp and after trying some, going after the V200, found out that the V220 and V281 were coming out in a few months, and now Im a proud owner of the V281.


----------



## saxelrod92

megalomaniak said:


> Wow, you just described myself.
> 
> Years ago, I bought the Matrix M-Stage HPA, my first headamp (as before I was using an Integrated Estereo Amp from Technics, which has power but 20-30 of output impedance), one of the very first versions out of ebay when it was almost hidden here in the forums and a few brave ones bought it. I got a nice deal (200€) from ebay and read a review that classified it as a "lehmman bcl clone", so I pulled the trigger.
> 
> ...


 

 wow that is indeed very similar to my story lol. Back when I was buying the denons (which were my second pair of over ear headphones ever after my now sold dt 990) I too was not looking at powerful/expensive amps because they were sensitive headphones and I didn't fully understand how amps and dacs affected the sound as much yet. So my first amp was actually a fiio e11 and man is that amp bad lol. Like take into consideration that I never heard headphones out of an amp before and yet I still could tell it was bad. it just ruins soundstage and adds tons of harshness. either way after that, one year ago, I finally got a proper amp, the burson soloist SL. which was a massive improvement, and by now I had also gotten the lcd 2, but it just was not cutting it in terms of power and the sound was a bit too dull and lifeless. So my search a couple months ago began, and here I am waiting for a V281 to arrive on friday 

 Also 2 years back when I was originally researching the denon d5000 I came across some sort of very long review/comparison of the Audeze models at the time, and before then I didn't even know such a thing as planar dynamic headphones or electrostatic headphones existed. But the whole idea of a big flat surface just moving back and forth between magnets to create the sound seemed so unique and special and fancy and expensive and true high end lol. Again once I learned how much they cost I quickly ignored them and went back to my 400 dollar denons (i got a good deal on them). Thankfully I was able to save up enough money in the last year to actually get a lcd 2 and now V281. I sometimes think back to how I perceived these products back then, and realize I now own them and can enjoy them any time I want (because back then I seriously thought to myself that I would never be able to hear what a planar dynamic or electrostatic headphone sounds like, not to mention actually own one). Puts things into perspective and really makes me appreciate how awesome these products are, since it can sometimes be very easy to get caught up in the expensive stuff and talk about their minor flaws and we forget how great they actually are and it allows us to just step back and enjoy them instead of feel like we need to upgrade from them all the time.


----------



## Megalomaniak

saxelrod92 said:


> wow that is indeed very similar to my story lol. Back when I was buying the denons (which were my second pair of over ear headphones ever after my now sold dt 990) I too was not looking at powerful/expensive amps because they were sensitive headphones and I didn't fully understand how amps and dacs affected the sound as much yet. So my first amp was actually a fiio e11 and man is that amp bad lol. Like take into consideration that I never heard headphones out of an amp before and yet I still could tell it was bad. it just ruins soundstage and adds tons of harshness. either way after that, one year ago, I finally got a proper amp, the burson soloist SL. which was a massive improvement, and by now I had also gotten the lcd 2, but it just was not cutting it in terms of power and the sound was a bit too dull and lifeless. So my search a couple months ago began, and here I am waiting for a V281 to arrive on friday
> 
> Also 2 years back when I was originally researching the denon d5000 I came across some sort of very long review/comparison of the Audeze models at the time, and before then I didn't even know such a thing as planar dynamic headphones or electrostatic headphones existed. But the whole idea of a big flat surface just moving back and forth between magnets to create the sound seemed so unique and special and fancy and expensive and true high end lol. Again once I learned how much they cost I quickly ignored them and went back to my 400 dollar denons (i got a good deal on them). Thankfully I was able to save up enough money in the last year to actually get a lcd 2 and now V281. I sometimes think back to how I perceived these products back then, and realize I now own them and can enjoy them any time I want (because back then I seriously thought to myself that I would never be able to hear what a planar dynamic or electrostatic headphone sounds like, not to mention actually own one). Puts things into perspective and really makes me appreciate how awesome these products are, since it can sometimes be very easy to get caught up in the expensive stuff and talk about their minor flaws and we forget how great they actually are and it allows us to just step back and enjoy them instead of feel like we need to upgrade from them all the time.


 
  
 Hahah, yeah. My story about Stereo stuff is a bit longer.
  
 My father used to run a small technical workshop with some brands such as Pioneer, Technics, Panasonic, Marantz, Kef and so on. So he repaired and upgraded tons of them, and of course in my house there was always a nice piece of stereo equipment in which we listened to cds and vinyls (most of them classic rock and pop). We always had a good pair of Kef Speakers (broken now) which sound, as far as I remember, was live-like, astonishing.
  
 Also, ive seen a couple of Electrostatic Speakers but didnt create much interest in me, and as you, until I digged deep into the hi-fi headphone world, I didnt know that the technology those speakers had could be installed in headphones. And then the Planar Magnetic or Magnetostatic headphones came across too, and I was wow what the hell.
  
 But yeah, I started to read about the sound of them, and the price was a bit prohibitive but not too much as I used to spend thousands of euros in the PC world, so a $1000 planar headphone vs a $900 SLI card configuration sounded fair to me, since the headphones lasts like 10x the time.
  
 Now, almost 8 years since my first Sennheiser HD555, a long long list of tried headphones, "planars" are for me


----------



## Poladise

Do the new models improve on the rolled treble of the V200?


----------



## Megalomaniak

poladise said:


> Do the new models improve on the rolled treble of the V200?


 
  
 Ive never seen a rolled off treble in the Violectric amps, but they are not bright indeed and V220 / V281 maintain that warmer sound. They dont lose any treble extension tho.


----------



## saxelrod92

megalomaniak said:


> Hahah, yeah. My story about Stereo stuff is a bit longer.
> 
> My father used to run a small technical workshop with some brands such as Pioneer, Technics, Panasonic, Marantz, Kef and so on. So he repaired and upgraded tons of them, and of course in my house there was always a nice piece of stereo equipment in which we listened to cds and vinyls (most of them classic rock and pop). We always had a good pair of Kef Speakers (broken now) which sound, as far as I remember, was live-like, astonishing.
> 
> ...


 

 I too was influenced greatly by my dad when it comes to high end audio. Ever since I could remember he had some sort of stereo set up in the living room, it was not anything super fancy of expensive by it was still pretty good. it was some B&W 808 speakers, something like that, with some Bryston amp and pre-amp, and then just an assortment of source gear. I was always very impressed with all the different pieces of gear required just to make the speakers work. I think thats what got me used to the fact that to get great sound you need more than just a pair of headphones/speakers and a cable hooking them up to your computer. My dad also was the first person ever to show me how getting better headphones, lets you have better sound. I was so stubborn when I was a teenager with my first pair of crappy sony on ear headphones (one of those like 10 dollar things), until it finally broke my dad insisted I get something better, but I was so stubborn thinking how on earth could it sound any better than what I was used to. lol. then I got a pair of Sennheiser px 100 II, and those changed everything to me, which eventually got me to where I am today.
  
 I also just helped my dad set his stereo system back up after we recently moved, which is great because he never had the time in the last few years to really do it, but now he's sorta rediscovering good music and his set up/collection.


----------



## Megalomaniak

saxelrod92 said:


> I too was influenced greatly by my dad when it comes to high end audio. Ever since I could remember he had some sort of stereo set up in the living room, it was not anything super fancy of expensive by it was still pretty good. it was some B&W 808 speakers, something like that, with some Bryston amp and pre-amp, and then just an assortment of source gear. I was always very impressed with all the different pieces of gear required just to make the speakers work. I think thats what got me used to the fact that to get great sound you need more than just a pair of headphones/speakers and a cable hooking them up to your computer. My dad also was the first person ever to show me how getting better headphones, lets you have better sound. I was so stubborn when I was a teenager with my first pair of crappy sony on ear headphones (one of those like 10 dollar things), until it finally broke my dad insisted I get something better, but I was so stubborn thinking how on earth could it sound any better than what I was used to. lol. then I got a pair of Sennheiser px 100 II, and those changed everything to me, which eventually got me to where I am today.
> 
> I also just helped my dad set his stereo system back up after we recently moved, which is great because he never had the time in the last few years to really do it, but now he's sorta rediscovering good music and his set up/collection.


 
  
 Hahaha, yeah, the teenager time is the stubborn time. Im 25 atm but Ive always known that better headphones meant better sound quality as the speakers were, like, some of the speakers my father repaired didnt sound as good as the KEFs we had at home.
  
 Now, whenever I get a new headphone, either for review/test or bought, my father tries it and he usually uses them while Im not 
  
 Also, he loves the "violectric" sound, he describes it as "the old analog style sound", warm and laid-back, but detailed with good bass and body.


----------



## Nomax

In few weeks i will give you my IMPRESIONS about THE ABYSS&V281 combo!

REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## Zkadoush

> @ Zkadoush
> 
> There will be a upsized and a downsized version of V800 in the future.
> If there will be a low feature V281 in the future I can not say in the moment. We must first check what the customers think about V281.
> ...


 

 Hi Fried,

 Me again wanting to bother you with yet another couple of questions:

 Could you provide some info on the second optional motorized potentiometer ("128-step relay attenuator with 0.75 dB per step together with remote input/output control") and its advantages?
 Is this also an ALPS potentiometer?

 You have also mentioned that transformers and power supply in the V220/V281 are different from V200, would it be to much indiscretion to ask you for some details about those differences?

 Will there be some digital specs for the new 24/192 DAC modules in the near future?

 I really like the idea of a standalone balanced V281 Amp (or V282), it would be a great option for those looking for the ultimate Balanced Amp.

 Thanks againg for all your answers, and sorry for all the questions.

 Greetz


----------



## kinger2005

Just pulled the trigger on a v281.
  
 Since fried is active in this thread, I'd like to ask a question. What ever happened to the concept of the v284 and is it still alive?
  
 I'd like to see fried make a competitor to the dark star, that doesn't make my xcs hiss. Something that could even stand on the same leg as the beta 22.


----------



## alvinmate

Hi everyone,
  
 Did anyone had a chance to properly compare the Taurus MK2 vs HPA V281. I am really eager to know what are the biggest differences esp interms of sound signature.
  
  
 Thanks


----------



## saxelrod92

megalomaniak said:


> Hahaha, yeah, the teenager time is the stubborn time. Im 25 atm but Ive always known that better headphones meant better sound quality as the speakers were, like, some of the speakers my father repaired didnt sound as good as the KEFs we had at home.
> 
> Now, whenever I get a new headphone, either for review/test or bought, my father tries it and he usually uses them while Im not
> 
> Also, he loves the "violectric" sound, he describes it as "the old analog style sound", warm and laid-back, but detailed with good bass and body.


 

 Yea I'm 22, and my dad does the same thing lol. Theres definitely a part of me thats just like wanting to make sure everything I get is also approved by him, which so far that has been the case 
  
 Also as a general post I got my V281 yesterday thanks to Arthur from the USA store. I'll give a longer first impressions at the end of the weekend, but for now I want to mention that mine came with the ribbon cable connecting the top amp to the bottom board, loose. I think it constricted from the cold of the airplane during it's travels from Germany to the States and it got unplugged. So I opened up the case, plugged it back in and all was good. The volume knob was all good too. and as for now I'll just say it has been impressing me quite a lot  but for those of you buying these first releases just be aware of the ribbon cable thing. I talked to Arthur bout it already, and he will be telling Violectric about it, he said it was a common issue on the older models and they used to hot glue those connecters because of it, but not stopped, so because of my issue he said they might just start doing it again for future builds. Otherwise it is built like a tank, all the buttons and knobs feel very solid, and they even sent a letter with a hex key attached talking about how the volume knob sometimes can come loose during the long shipping journey. Also my manual is still entirely in German lol, they don't have the English version with these first orders yet. And for those of you who live in North America and are thinking of buying one, theres still a couple V220's in the store, and possibly one V281 (unless the guy who posted above got that one). More will be coming in a few weeks. All in all for having the first bought one in North America I'd say it turned out very well, and I'm glad to be a pioneer as Fried says lol.
  
 Again first impressions on SE sound/overall usage later this weekend from me. I want to give something detailed for those on the fence still.


----------



## Byrnie

alvinmate said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Did anyone had a chance to properly compare the Taurus MK2 vs HPA V281. I am really eager to know what are the biggest differences esp interms of sound signature.
> 
> ...



Project86 is doing a review on the v281 for innerfidelity.com and owns a Taurus so he'll most likely compare the two.


----------



## project86

byrnie said:


> Project86 is doing a review on the v281 for innerfidelity.com and owns a Taurus so he'll most likely compare the two.


 
  
  
 Indeed I will. So far both amps are extremely enjoyable, handling everything I throw at them with ease. Still need to figure out the exact character of V281 and how it differs from the Taurus.
  
So far I'm convinced there's no wrong choice between the two.


----------



## saxelrod92

So just another quick update, I opened it up again because there was a rattling sound whenever the amp was set down/touched, and turns out it was missing 3 screws to hold down the top amp, and was just being held on by two out of five screws. So the entire top amp board was rattling. I sent an email to Arthur already, and am waiting reply (depending on of he checks during weekends or not). So quality control on these first few runs is a bit off, esp taking into account how the ribbon cable to the top amp was also not connected when I got it, makes me think if it instead of it coming loose during shipment, it was just never attached in the first place, just like the 3 other screws were not (theres no way it is supposed to be missing 3 major screws like this). So fair warning for those buying these first few runs, make sure you check to see if everything is all good inside. On the upside all the soldering looks really good, some pieces being slightly off-center as a result of being nicely handmade.
  
 I'll update when I get this all solved.
  
 Edit- Arthur got back to me VERY quickly, greatly appreciated, he said to ship the amp back to him, and he will talk to Fried about all this. I am actually really impressed by the great customer support Violectric is showing me. I love the sound, the amp, and the people working there, hopefully this was just an isolated incident due to one of the workers rushing things (thats what it seems like honestly) and all will be sorted out soon. Don't let what happened to my amp dissuade anyone from pulling the trigger on one of these, because despite everything I can't think of an amp I'd rather have for the same money.


----------



## alvinmate

project86 said:


> Indeed I will. So far both amps are extremely enjoyable, handling everything I throw at them with ease. Still need to figure out the exact character of V281 and how it differs from the Taurus.
> 
> So far I'm convinced there's no wrong choice between the two.






thanks for the update.


----------



## alvinmate

Still torn between the two.... Leaning towards Taurus MK2 but never know


----------



## Xenophon

alvinmate said:


> Still torn between the two.... Leaning towards Taurus MK2 but never know


 
 I had the opportunity to audition the Taurus Mk2 yesterday, though only briefly and with my HE-6 on SE, never listened to the new Violectrics and can only compare with my V200.  
  
 Can imagine you being torn because beyond a doubt, quality of both brands is really good.  I'd have to listen a lot longer to be sure but with the HE-6 I think I might have a slight preference for the Taurus 2 vs the V200, it sounds a bit more neutral and airy to me.  But this was only after a brief audition and using SE only, I'm not sure if the Taurus would have the juice in balanced setups to drive the 6 well (power output in balanced/50 Ohm is a lot lower than in SE).  If all other things were equal between the Taurus and the new Vios then I guess lovers of more heft and slamming bass might go with the Vios.  This fwiw after a very brief audition, most of which was spent while the unit was warming up (it really makes a difference with the sound) .Curious to read other impressions.


----------



## BeyerMonster

zkadoush said:


> Could you provide some info on the second optional motorized potentiometer ("128-step relay attenuator with 0.75 dB per step together with remote input/output control") and its advantages?
> Is this also an ALPS potentiometer?


 
 A stepped relay attenuator is not a potentiometer at all. It's a purpose built device with discrete settings. Think of a potentiometer as being an continuously analog volume control and a stepped attenuator as a stepped digital volume control. If price was no object, I'd have something like a Placette as the volume control for everything I own.
  
 For reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer
http://www.goldpt.com/compare.html
 http://www.dact.com/html/attenuators.html


----------



## Jodet

saxelrod92 said:


> So just another quick update, I opened it up again because there was a rattling sound whenever the amp was set down/touched, and turns out it was missing 3 screws to hold down the top amp, and was just being held on by two out of five screws. So the entire top amp board was rattling. I sent an email to Arthur already, and am waiting reply (depending on of he checks during weekends or not). So quality control on these first few runs is a bit off, esp taking into account how the ribbon cable to the top amp was also not connected when I got it, makes me think if it instead of it coming loose during shipment, it was just never attached in the first place, just like the 3 other screws were not (theres no way it is supposed to be missing 3 major screws like this). So fair warning for those buying these first few runs, make sure you check to see if everything is all good inside. On the upside all the soldering looks really good, some pieces being slightly off-center as a result of being nicely handmade.
> 
> I'll update when I get this all solved.
> 
> Edit- Arthur got back to me VERY quickly, greatly appreciated, he said to ship the amp back to him, and he will talk to Fried about all this. I am actually really impressed by the great customer support Violectric is showing me. I love the sound, the amp, and the people working there, hopefully this was just an isolated incident due to one of the workers rushing things (thats what it seems like honestly) and all will be sorted out soon. Don't let what happened to my amp dissuade anyone from pulling the trigger on one of these, because despite everything I can't think of an amp I'd rather have for the same money.


 
  
 Apparently Violectric thinks its U.S. customers should be unpaid beta testors.   
  
 I expect this from cheap Chinese gear, but an expensive German product built this poorly?    VERY DISCOURAGING.


----------



## roskodan

edit: ops i didn't see the new post, so i retracted the previous one i wrote thinking it was only about the volume knob screw and cable, still i'm including the previous comment in the spoiler cos i think that violectric does not really merit such attacks like the one @Jodet made, just my opinion, i understand and respect even such attacks cos the units are clearly not cheap! but a broader view of the possible causes should be considered, cheers
  


Spoiler: Warning: integral unedite previous post



Quote: previous post 





> big -1 to you  @ jodet,
> 
> your comment is out of proportion, it's not like the units were faulty or malfunctioned or broke, there was a loose screw and a disconnected cable, i had much worse experiences with highly regarded products (made in USA) with years if not decades already in production, but never would dare to make such aggressive and bold statements like your is,
> 
> ...





  
 p.s. also i wonder if violectric is shipping partially assembled units to the usa distributor, so they can be made to be v220 or v281 as per necessity/demand?


----------



## saxelrod92

One more quick update, Fried answered Arthur (while on vacation I might add), and said before they left there was a unit being finished up, and he figures this was mine, and the worker overlooked this last step in the assembly process, which involves attaching the top amp board. As of now my unit should technically be the only one like this. it's basically a series of unlucky events that took place over there. either way I would not attack Violectric for this as they have been more than amazing at responding to this issue and making things right for me.


----------



## Byrnie

saxelrod92 said:


> One more quick update, Fried answered Arthur (while on vacation I might add), and said before they left there was a unit being finished up, and he figures this was mine, and the worker overlooked this last step in the assembly process, which involves attaching the top amp board. As of now my unit should technically be the only one like this. it's basically a series of unlucky events that took place over there. either way I would not attack Violectric for this as they have been more than amazing at responding to this issue and making things right for me.


 
 That's great to hear that they're quickly turning around this error.


----------



## Zkadoush

beyermonster said:


> A stepped relay attenuator is not a potentiometer at all. It's a purpose built device with discrete settings. Think of a potentiometer as being an continuously analog volume control and a stepped attenuator as a stepped digital volume control. If price was no object, I'd have something like a Placette as the volume control for everything I own.
> 
> For reference:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer
> ...


 

 Thanks for that correction, BeyerMonster.

 Cheers!


----------



## Zkadoush

project86 said:


> Indeed I will. So far both amps are extremely enjoyable, handling everything I throw at them with ease. Still need to figure out the exact character of V281 and how it differs from the Taurus.
> 
> So far I'm convinced there's no wrong choice between the two.


 
  
 Hi project86,

 Speaking of comparative refrences, I was wondering if you would maintain the roughly same difference in sound characteristics you describe between the V200 and the CMA800R (Full bodied bass, grunt and more gusto vs more detail, tonal accuracy, wider soundstage and better imaging), while comparing the V281/V220 and the CMA800R?
 Does the V220/V281 allow for listening with IEMs, or do they have an audible noise floor?

 Cheers


----------



## saxelrod92

zkadoush said:


> Hi project86,
> 
> Speaking of comparative refrences, I was wondering if you would maintain the roughly same difference in sound characteristics you describe between the V200 and the CMA800R (Full bodied bass, grunt and more gusto vs more detail, tonal accuracy, wider soundstage and better imaging), while comparing the V281/V220 and the CMA800R?
> Does the V220/V281 allow for listening with IEMs, or do they have an audible noise floor?
> ...


 

 I can help answer your question about noisefloor. I tried my V281 with my denon d5000, which are at 25ohms, and turned the volume all the way up, and honestly there is not a sound that can be heard. like if you wanted to nitpick at full volume you can hear that it no longer is perfectly dead silent, but I'm talking like so little noise that you can barely hear it when everything is dead quiet. and thats only on the last notch of volume, literally any other volume placement is absolute dead silence, I had to check to make sure everything was plugged in still and on lol. Totally black background.


----------



## Zkadoush

saxelrod92 said:


> I can help answer your question about noisefloor. I tried my V281 with my denon d5000, which are at 25ohms, and turned the volume all the way up, and honestly there is not a sound that can be heard. like if you wanted to nitpick at full volume you can hear that it no longer is perfectly dead silent, but I'm talking like so little noise that you can barely hear it when everything is dead quiet. and thats only on the last notch of volume, literally any other volume placement is absolute dead silence, I had to check to make sure everything was plugged in still and on lol. Totally black background.


 


 Thanks for that valuable answer, saxelrod92. 

 Cheers


----------



## fdg

OK, first some (essential) words about volume control:
  
*About different kinds of potentiometers (volume control)*
  
 Think of a simple potentiometer as an open resistor with its resistance increasing from one end to the other.
 One end of the resistor is connected to the analog signal, the other end is connected to ground.
 On the surface of this resistors there is a metalic whiper. By moving this whiper on the surface of the resistor different levels of attenuation may be achieved from no attenuation (whiper on the end where the signal comes in) to maximum attenuation (whiper on the end where ground is connected.
  
 The increasing resistance of the potentiometer may follow different laws.
 A linear law is preferred for balance or tone control.
 A positive logarithm law is good for volume control while a negative logarithm law is best for microphone gain.

 The above resistor may appear in different shapes.
 Most time it is curved with an angele about 300 degrees from on end to the other.
 On mixing consoles you will find straight potentiometers.
 You can pack several channels (resistors) in an enclosure or pack several enclosures with a single resistor inside together and control them with one or more shafts.
  
 But there are several disadvantages to consider when you like to use more than one potentiometer at a time - for stereo you need at least two.
 There is ALWAYS a mismatch between two or more potentiometers as these cann´t be manufactured 100% exact. This mismatch can be heard as a channel imbalance, meaning the center may move a bit to the left or the right whilst turning the potentiometer.
 Also the crosstalk may suffer during attenuation. Therefore better potentiometers have a chamber for each resistor.

 Some potentiometers offer one or more detents to ease operation.
 These detents have NOTHING to do with a stepped attenuator !!!
 A common feature is a center detent for balance control to exactly determine the middle position.
 Other popular detents are 13-detent for tone control,
 31- or 41-detent for volume control to ease the repositioning to a specific value / angle.
  
 To come across the accuracy- and crosstalk-issue several manufacturers offer real stepped attenuators.
 These are realized with 12-step or 24-step turn-switches.
 The limitation to max. 24 steps is due to the fact that there are no affordable turn-switches with more than 24 steps in this world.

 Just imagine that the above mentioned resistor is devided in small portions of high accuracy with 1% or even 0.1 %.
 Instead the whiper the 12-step or 24-step turn-switch acts to come from one resistor to the other.
 Also you may position the switches for left and right far from each other to enhance crosstalk.
 The disadvantage of this idea is that 24 steps often are not enough to meet your specific needs.
  
 The next idea is the electronical attenuation.
 There are some older approaches like the VCA (voltage controlled attenuator) which work quite fine as an attenuator but have high amounts of distortion.
 The better approach is the DCA (digital controlled attenuator), offering 128 or 256 steps of very exact attenuation with good crosstalk. But unfortunately there is still some negative influence on the signal …
  
  
 The final solution is the relay controlled attenuation.
 It is as exact as the 24-step turn-switch solution (but with more steps) because of the use of accurate resistors. There is no noisy or distorting active electronic in the signal chain. There is best crosstalk.
 Instead of the contacts of a turn-switch, here relays are in charge to switch between the resistors and perform the attenuation of the signal.
 We at Violectric voted for a 128-step solution with 0.75 dB per step for a 96 dB attenuation.
  
 To control electronic or relay based attenuators, normally up-down-buttons or incrementals (turn switches without a beginning or an end) are used because this is a cheap solution.
 We voted for a real potentiometer with a beginning and an end so people can check by a simple look at the knob the amount of attenuation. To do so, we again use a RK27 motor driven potentiometer (which would not be nesseccary at this point) to have the same look and feel compared to our other gear. Instead the analog signal attenuation a control voltage is created by this potentiometer which is fed to an A/D converter to form a digital signal which sets the relays.

 There is much light shining on the relay volume control but there is also some shadows:
 You will hear the relays working whilst turning the knob, this is some clicking when turning slow or even sounds like some soft noise coming out of the box when turning fast.
 The other disadvantage is the power consumption ….


----------



## fdg

@ Zkadoush 


You have also mentioned that transformers and power supply in the V220/V281 are different from V200, would it be to much indiscretion to ask you for some details about those differences?
 Inside V200 we are using a 10 W transformer.
 Inside V220 we are using a 25 W transformer because there is much additional circuitry to supply.
 Additionally there is a 15 W transformer for V281 on the upper amp-PCB.

Will there be some digital specs for the new 24/192 DAC modules in the near future?
 There will be some more details when our new site is up ... by now violectric-usa.com is best for competent answers.

I really like the idea of a standalone balanced V281 Amp (or V282), it would be a great option for those looking for the ultimate Balanced Amp.
 First we are working on our current line (specially V220 / V281) to get them out as perfect we and our customers expect )

Thanks againg for all your answers, and sorry for all the questions.
 You´re always welcome !!

 Greetz
  
 Fried


----------



## roskodan

fdg said:


> To come across the accuracy- and crosstalk-issue several manufacturers offer real stepped attenuators.
> These are realized with 12-step or 24-step turn-switches.
> The limitation to max. 24 steps is due to the fact that there are no affordable turn-switches with more than 24 steps in this world.
> 
> ...


 
  
 i got me a khozmo stepped, 48 steps, attenuator, and didn't have any contact or noise issue with it, but i had bad experiences with other stepped attenuators manufacturers
  
 http://www.khozmo.com/
  
 can the new amp work with one of those khozmo attenuators? they have shunt, series, leader types etc.
  
 because it works, has 48 steps and it's cheap for what one gets, the relays upgrade option is just priced fantastically imo, especially if it's not the vacuum relays switches, although specs wise it seems fantastic
  
 another thing i don't get is why is there being offered two amps with different front panels, v220 and v281, rather than one amp with a SE and balanced option available upon ordering/upgrading, so to have the same front panel, lowering costs, just put a cover on the xlr balanced output for those amps that ships only with SE option?


----------



## rx79ez08

fdg said:


> To control electronic or relay based attenuators, normally up-down-buttons or incrementals (turn switches without a beginning or an end) are used because this is a cheap solution.
> We voted for a real potentiometer with a beginning and an end so people can check by a simple look at the knob the amount of attenuation. To do so, we again use a RK27 motor driven potentiometer (which would not be nesseccary at this point) to have the same look and feel compared to our other gear. Instead the analog signal attenuation a control voltage is created by this potentiometer which is fed to an A/D converter to form a digital signal which sets the relays.
> 
> There is much light shining on the relay volume control but there is also some shadows:
> ...


 
  
 Interesting, if I understand correctly the volume control for a standard and volume control solution 1 is actually done by a electronic potentiometer that is controlled by an ADC, which is in turn controlled by a real potentiometer.
  
 The V281 sounds great, very powerful. Your guys have managed to significantly improve the clarity and signature of the amp as compare to the V200. The only slight complain I have is the gain is too high for me. With the pre-amp gain at -12, balance input from a M51 at 0db gain, I rarely go near 9 o'clock for the volume dial. For most headphones I mostly only go to 8 o'clock or even 7 o'clock.
  
 Are all the 24/192 DAC broad regardless of on USB, optical or coaxial input based on the same DAC chip? I am weighting up between the coaxial and the USB version, would be interested in what is the major difference between them beside the input.


----------



## project86

zkadoush said:


> Hi project86,
> 
> Speaking of comparative refrences, I was wondering if you would maintain the roughly same difference in sound characteristics you describe between the V200 and the CMA800R (Full bodied bass, grunt and more gusto vs more detail, tonal accuracy, wider soundstage and better imaging), while comparing the V281/V220 and the CMA800R?
> Does the V220/V281 allow for listening with IEMs, or do they have an audible noise floor?
> ...


 
  
 Yes, I'd say the V281 (and V220) are an evolution of the V200 sound, so the general comparison with CMA800R still holds. However, this time around things are more open sounding with the new Violectric. So advantages that formerly went to the Questyle amp, are less of a difference now.
  
  
 So far I've been using extremely sensitive IEMs like the UM Merlin, with -6dB pregain setting, and it's very quiet. I suppose I could go to -12dB if I had any trouble but thus far there's no need. It's just like V200 which means extremely good with IEMs - the huge volume knob is great for dialing in a precise setting. I have not tried my balanced IEMs yet. 
  
  


rx79ez08 said:


> Interesting, if I understand correctly the volume control for a standard and volume control solution 1 is actually done by a electronic potentiometer that is controlled by an ADC, which is in turn controlled by a real potentiometer.
> 
> The V281 sounds great, very powerful. Your guys have managed to significantly improve the clarity and signature of the amp as compare to the V200. The only slight complain I have is the gain is too high for me. With the pre-amp gain at -12, balance input from a M51 at 0db gain, I rarely go near 9 o'clock for the volume dial. For most headphones I mostly only go to 8 o'clock or even 7 o'clock.
> 
> Are all the 24/192 DAC broad regardless of on USB, optical or coaxial input based on the same DAC chip? I am weighting up between the coaxial and the USB version, would be interested in what is the major difference between them beside the input.


 
  
 Interesting - what headphone is this with? 
  
 The NAD M51 puts out 4.75V through the XLR outputs at the 0dB setting. Which is slightly hotter than the usual 4V but not by a huge margin. So it shouldn't have that problem when pregain is set low. 
  
 Are you sure you aren't reading the pregain settings backwards, and setting it to +12dB instead of -12? You wouldn't be the first person to make that mistake. Start with all switches down. Flip the switch marked -12 (on the far left side) upwards, leaving all others down.


----------



## fdg

@ rx79ez08
  
 There seems to be a little missunderstanding ...
  
 … to make more clear what we are using for volume control inside our Violectric gear:
  
 Inside V90 you can find a nice and small potentiometer with two of the above mentioned resistors in one case.
 It is the RK14 from Alps and works quite fine.

 Inside all other headphone amps and PRE V630 we are using the good reputated ALPS RK 27. Here you can find each variable resistor (2 for stereo) in a separate housing, so crosstalk is very good. Also there is a 41-detent inside.
 We are measuring the channel imbalance at 12 o´clock position. If it is higher than 0.3 dB it will be sorted out.
  
 The first volume control option on V220, V281 and V630 is the remote option.
 Beneath other things the volume can be controlled by pushing a remote button.
 To do so, we are using a motorized RK 27 potentiometer.
 Here a not so little motor through a gearbox turns the potentiometer, visible by the rotating knob. Of course there is a clutch installed so you can turn or stop the knob by hand even when the motor drive is in action.
  
 The second volume control option for V220 and V281 is again made with the motorized RK 27 potentiometer. Same procedure as above. But this time a control voltage is generated and A/D converted to control the 128-step relais attenuator.
  
 Yes, I know, there are more simple and cheaper ways to remotely control the volume.
 But that´s the way we go …
  
 By the way, because the volume is attenuated in the digital domain inside DAC V800 the quality of the potentiometer must not be that good. Here we are using again RK 14 from alps.
 When there will be an updated version of V800 there will be also a motorized RK27 inside.
 In the moment we are seeking the space inside the case to proceed )
  
 Greetz
  
 Fried


----------



## Megalomaniak

Wow, 4.75V on a DAC thats a lot, my DAC does 2V and I usually stand from 8 to 12 of the volume knob, and I dont like it loud. Of course gain setting at 0.


----------



## rx79ez08

Thank you Fried, I understand now. A very interesting way to do volume control.
I have been using HD800 and lcd-x in balance output, mostly TH900 in unbalance output. I am pretty sure I set the attenuation right, but I will check when I get home. 
The 800 required the most output, but even then I for not go pass 9.


----------



## project86

megalomaniak said:


> Wow, 4.75V on a DAC thats a lot, my DAC does 2V and I usually stand from 8 to 12 of the volume knob, and I dont like it loud. Of course gain setting at 0.


 
  
  
 It's a lot for RCA outputs (which are normally 2V) but not so much for XLR (which is generally 4V).


----------



## Zkadoush

fdg said:


> OK, first some (essential) words about volume control:
> 
> *About different kinds of potentiometers (volume control)*
> 
> ...


 


 Thank you Fried for this detailed info on the volume controls used by Violectric. I had to read it a couple of times and do some wikipedia, because I'm not an engineer, but I believe I have a much better understanding of it now.

 Cheers


----------



## Zkadoush

Thanks a ton again, Fried.


fdg said:


> @ Zkadoush
> 
> 
> You have also mentioned that transformers and power supply in the V220/V281 are different from V200, would it be to much indiscretion to ask you for some details about those differences?
> ...


 


 Thanks a ton again, Fried.

 I greatly appreciate your time and all the technical detail provided regarding Violectric's new flagship Amps. I have to say the more I read and the more info I have, the more confident I feel to make a well informed decision about my final purchase. I have recently visited a dealer here in Auckland who clearly knows about the products he's selling, and he's also a passionate head-fier. He's also prepared to bring in a V281 and that would obviously give me a great chance to compare it directly to a Taurus, and to a Bakoon HPA-01 and HPA-21, as he's shortly bringing in those as well. I also received positive feedback from the Addicted to Audio guys in Melbourne, as I'm traveling there at the end of the year, and they will also have a V281 to audition by then.

 Schoene Gruesse


----------



## Zkadoush

fdg said:


> @ rx79ez08
> 
> There seems to be a little missunderstanding ...
> 
> ...


 

 More interesting info, thanks Fried.


----------



## Zkadoush

project86 said:


> Yes, I'd say the V281 (and V220) are an evolution of the V200 sound, so the general comparison with CMA800R still holds. However, this time around things are more open sounding with the new Violectric. So advantages that formerly went to the Questyle amp, are less of a difference now.
> 
> 
> So far I've been using extremely sensitive IEMs like the UM Merlin, with -6dB pregain setting, and it's very quiet. I suppose I could go to -12dB if I had any trouble but thus far there's no need. It's just like V200 which means extremely good with IEMs - the huge volume knob is great for dialing in a precise setting. I have not tried my balanced IEMs yet.


 

 Thanks for your answer, project86. Your valuable impressions certainly make the V281 an even more attractive Amp.
 I recently had another session with the Taurus (along with a Bryston BHA-1 and a Woo Audio WA2), which was far more positive than the last one. My previous listen was with the VEGA and this time it was with a Bryston BDA-1. I can't really attest to the DAC being responsible for any changes, but my impression was certainly different. I also had a go at the newest LCD-3 along with a LCD-X, and I was far more impressed than with my last experience with them, which clearly were older models. This time over I could really enjoy the LCD-3 from the Taurus' both outputs, but I particularly enjoyed the LCD-X. It is also hard to resist the temptation of getting one as a great alternative to my HD 800s.

 The Woo was also an impressive match with the HD 800s, and now I'm pretty much waiting for a the Bakoon HPA-01 and HPA-21 to arrive and give them a comparative listen against the Taurus.

 I know the LCD-X is a lot easier to drive than the LCD-2/3s, and that certainly gives it an advantage, as I wouldn't necessarily have to rule out the CMA800R based on the current both the Taurus and V281 can deliver. Have you compared the LCD-X between the CMA800R, Taurus and V281?  

 Thanks again for your valueble impressions and response.

 Cheers


----------



## Armaegis

Since we're talking about pots, another German amp guy Jan Meier does things slightly differently and uses a pot ADC to control the gain. I know he does this in his portable Stepdance amps, not sure about the desktop ones.


----------



## rx79ez08

project86 said:


> Are you sure you aren't reading the pregain settings backwards, and setting it to +12dB instead of -12? You wouldn't be the first person to make that mistake. Start with all switches down. Flip the switch marked -12 (on the far left side) upwards, leaving all others down.


 
 I just checked, the setting is correct. Maybe the M51 just got a high output.


----------



## project86

rx79ez08 said:


> I just checked, the setting is correct. Maybe the M51 just got a high output.


 
  
 Wow, that's really odd. Seems too high to me, considering the output voltage involved. But NAD has a really good digital attenuation implementation, so you could always drop the volume on that end and go from there. Start at -1dB and go down as needed, things should stay pretty transparent until you go down by 30 or 40 dB.


----------



## PleasantSounds

zkadoush said:


> I also received positive feedback from the Addicted to Audio guys in Melbourne, as I'm traveling there at the end of the year, and they will also have a V281 to audition by then.


 
  
 Just returned from the A2A store: the V281 is already in stock, minus one in the boot of my car  
  
 Listened also to the Auralic Taurus, Luxman p700u and Bryston BHA-1. The Luxman was probably a tad more refined, but it takes too much space (and costs much more). And I don't like the dual XLR headphone sockets. The other two amps failed to really impress me, especially the BHA-1 was not as good a match for the HD800.
  
 More on the V281 performance when I have some experience with it.
  
 Cheers


----------



## madbull

Has anyone ordered a V281 through Aprhodite Cu29? I have been trying to contact Robert but can't get no answer.


----------



## project86

madbull said:


> Has anyone ordered a V281 through Aprhodite Cu29? I have been trying to contact Robert but can't get no answer.




That's the sort of behavior that made Violectric search for a new distributor in the USA. Violectric-USA will respond to emails immediately.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yep, Arthur rocks.


----------



## madbull

project86 said:


> That's the sort of behavior that made Violectric search for a new distributor in the USA. Violectric-USA will respond to emails immediately.


 
  
  
 Yeah, but what am I supposed to do now, considering specially that I have already paid the full price in advance? 
  
 Should I open a dispute at paypal or wait a little more?
  
 I like Robert, have done business with him before, but this is something that really pisses me off.


----------



## saxelrod92

fegefeuer said:


> Yep, Arthur rocks.


 

 Yea he's been really awesome to me over the last week or so since I bought the V281 and had some issues with it (as mentioned in previous posts). He's even personally looking at it, fixing it, listening to it, and making sure all is perfect. He even responded to me on weekends, late at night, and very quickly, since he forwards his business email to his phone. He knows his stuff.


----------



## project86

madbull said:


> Yeah, but what am I supposed to do now, considering specially that I have already paid the full price in advance?
> 
> Should I open a dispute at paypal or wait a little more?
> 
> I like Robert, have done business with him before, but this is something that really pisses me off.


 
  
  
 From what I hear, Robert used to be excellent but something happened, and lately he hasn't been the same. I could be wrong.... but that was the last I heard of the matter. I'd look into a paypal dispute sooner than later, assuming you've already tried emailing multiple times and/or calling (if you even have the number). There's a time limit for that sort of thing, so I'd hate for you to give it too much time and then it's too late.


----------



## Zkadoush

project86 said:


> Yes, I'd say the V281 (and V220) are an evolution of the V200 sound, so the general comparison with CMA800R still holds. However, this time around things are more open sounding with the new Violectric. So advantages that formerly went to the Questyle amp, are less of a difference now.
> 
> 
> So far I've been using extremely sensitive IEMs like the UM Merlin, with -6dB pregain setting, and it's very quiet. I suppose I could go to -12dB if I had any trouble but thus far there's no need. It's just like V200 which means extremely good with IEMs - the huge volume knob is great for dialing in a precise setting. I have not tried my balanced IEMs yet.


 
 Hi project86,

 A few more questions (yeah, I know, I can be a pain... my apologies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





):

 One of the few aspects you had some criticism about, regarding the CMA800R, was the rather high gain - 15.5 dB -, yet the V281 isn't far away with 14 dB. Do you hear the effects of the relatively high gain of the V281 as with the CMA800R? The CMA800R also has a better THD+N performance than the V281, which should give it some advantage despite the higher gain (?). Do you hear a difference between the V281 and Taurus in this respect?

 Is it also possible to listen to IEMs without hiss or noise at the default gain setting of the V281 (14 dB)?

 Have you had a chance to compare the LCD-Xs from the V281 vs the CMA800R?

 Sorry again for all the questions.

 Cheers


----------



## madbull

So, I finally could get in touch with Robert and he's been very responsive now.
  
 Anyway, I have the option of having the Amp delivered now, with Volume control upgrade Level 1 (RK27), or waiting until end of September, for level 2 upgrade (128 stepped attenuator).
  
 Do you guys think this ugrade is worth the wait? I've already paid for the thing anyway, but I'm not so sure if it's really something make me go "wow".


----------



## Armaegis

How much extra for the upgrades? (and what make is the stepped pot?)


----------



## project86

madbull said:


> So, I finally could get in touch with Robert and he's been very responsive now.
> 
> Anyway, I have the option of having the Amp delivered now, with Volume control upgrade Level 1 (RK27), or waiting until end of September, for level 2 upgrade (128 stepped attenuator).
> 
> Do you guys think this ugrade is worth the wait? I've already paid for the thing anyway, but I'm not so sure if it's really something make me go "wow".


 
  
 No idea. I will say this thing sounds phenomenal with the level 1 volume. Could it do better still with the upgrade? Speculation at this point. I'd like to hope it does give some improvement but is it worth the cost? Dunno. Personally I'd rather have it now but that's just me.
  
  


armaegis said:


> How much extra for the upgrades? (and what make is the stepped pot?)


 
  
 Check out the Violectric USA website and you can play with configuration options/see prices. The stepped pot is an in-house creation and is not yet available right this second.


----------



## PleasantSounds

madbull said:


> So, I finally could get in touch with Robert and he's been very responsive now.
> 
> Anyway, I have the option of having the Amp delivered now, with Volume control upgrade Level 1 (RK27), or waiting until end of September, for level 2 upgrade (128 stepped attenuator).
> 
> Do you guys think this ugrade is worth the wait? I've already paid for the thing anyway, but I'm not so sure if it's really something make me go "wow".


 
  
 I dunno if it will make you go "wow" but it will make the amp go "click-click-click" every time you change the volume. The clicking should be very soft though, and you may not hear it anyway while wearing headphones.
  
 For me the Alps standard pot is good enough. I would consider the upgrade if I needed remote volume control, but as it is sitting on my desk I actually prefer to use the knob. I have measured the output of botch channels with pink noise and sine sweeps as a source and the balance in my unit stays within +-0.5dB. I had to resort to the lab approach as listening tests didn't show any discernible differences.
  
 Speaking of balance, I do have one minor gripe: the way the balance control works in my unit. When I turn it to the right, the right channel goes louder, but there's no change in the left. When turning left, it attenuates the right channel but the left remains unchanged. In the end the outcome is the balance shift, but it also impacts the overall volume level. I don't believe it is like that by design, but inspecting the interior failed to unravel any issues with the assembly quality. It's not a big concern as I hardly ever need to touch the balance, but at this price point I'm not too keen to accept anything less than perfect. Can someone please confirm that their unit behaves as expected (i.e. when volume in one channel goes down, it goes up in the other) when using the balance control?


----------



## saxelrod92

pleasantsounds said:


> I dunno if it will make you go "wow" but it will make the amp go "click-click-click" every time you change the volume. The clicking should be very soft though, and you may not hear it anyway while wearing headphones.
> 
> For me the Alps standard pot is good enough. I would consider the upgrade if I needed remote volume control, but as it is sitting on my desk I actually prefer to use the knob. I have measured the output of botch channels with pink noise and sine sweeps as a source and the balance in my unit stays within +-0.5dB. I had to resort to the lab approach as listening tests didn't show any discernible differences.
> 
> Speaking of balance, I do have one minor gripe: the way the balance control works in my unit. When I turn it to the right, the right channel goes louder, but there's no change in the left. When turning left, it attenuates the right channel but the left remains unchanged. In the end the outcome is the balance shift, but it also impacts the overall volume level. I don't believe it is like that by design, but inspecting the interior failed to unravel any issues with the assembly quality. It's not a big concern as I hardly ever need to touch the balance, but at this price point I'm not too keen to accept anything less than perfect. Can someone please confirm that their unit behaves as expected (i.e. when volume in one channel goes down, it goes up in the other) when using the balance control?


 

 Yea when I had mine setup (prior to my issues, look at my older posts for the whole story. its currently "in the shop") the balance control worked perfectly fine. going to the right caused the left channel to get a bit quieter and the right a bit louder, and vice versa when going to the left. I will say though that it is a slightly unusual design in the sense that it is only +/- 6dB, compared to full cut out of the right or left channel when all the way left or right. I personally like it a lot, it makes me feel like the impact it has on the balance is minor and very finely precise, rather than huge sweeps. But I dont think yours is working properly, to be honest. if it's fine at center position, and you dont touch it or need to touch it, then I wouldn't worry. Otherwise you'd have to send it back to get it looked at.


----------



## PleasantSounds

saxelrod92 said:


> Yea when I had mine setup (prior to my issues, look at my older posts for the whole story. its currently "in the shop") the balance control worked perfectly fine. going to the right caused the left channel to get a bit quieter and the right a bit louder, and vice versa when going to the left. I will say though that it is a slightly unusual design in the sense that it is only +/- 6dB, compared to full cut out of the right or left channel when all the way left or right. I personally like it a lot, it makes me feel like the impact it has on the balance is minor and very finely precise, rather than huge sweeps. But I dont think yours is working properly, to be honest. if it's fine at center position, and you dont touch it or need to touch it, then I wouldn't worry. Otherwise you'd have to send it back to get it looked at.


 
  
 Thanks for confirming my fears. I know the balance adjustment range is rather subtle - that's why I confirmed visually with the tools what I was hearing. It's just hard to picture a fault that would cause this kind of behavior, as the sound is perfectly balanced in the center position of the pot.


----------



## saxelrod92

pleasantsounds said:


> Thanks for confirming my fears. I know the balance adjustment range is rather subtle - that's why I confirmed visually with the tools what I was hearing. It's just hard to picture a fault that would cause this kind of behavior, as the sound is perfectly balanced in the center position of the pot.


 

 It's probably a defect inside the volume pot, meaning alps is at fault mainly. As it seems like it would be pretty tough to notice something wrong with quick testing. Sadly the only real solution for internal defects is to get a whole new pot. So you just gotta prioritize everything being perfect, or keeping the amp as it is. Since sending it back will take a while.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Well, I do have other gear to fall back on, so it won't be the end of the world.
 And when I get another attack of upgraditis I'd rather have it in a salable condition.
 I'm not in a hurry though as I'm just starting to enjoy the benefits of the burn in.


----------



## saxelrod92

pleasantsounds said:


> Well, I do have other gear to fall back on, so it won't be the end of the world.
> And when I get another attack of upgraditis I'd rather have it in a salable condition.
> I'm not in a hurry though as I'm just starting to enjoy the benefits of the burn in.


 

 well that works out then 
  
 Interestingly enough though, I actually didn't even notice any burn in. Before I sent it back temporarily, I was had used it for a good 24+ hours and it sounded just as good from the first second I turned it on, and I mean literally lol. I didn't wait for any warm up time either. I had the Burson soloist SL previously and that one definitely had burn in within that same time frame.


----------



## PleasantSounds

saxelrod92 said:


> Interestingly enough though, I actually didn't even notice any burn in. Before I sent it back temporarily, I was had used it for a good 24+ hours and it sounded just as good from the first second I turned it on, and I mean literally lol. I didn't wait for any warm up time either. I had the Burson soloist SL previously and that one definitely had burn in within that same time frame.


 
  
 The first V281 I have heard was the demo unit at the store I purchased it in. It already had a good few hours on the clock even though the paint on it was not quite dry yet.
 My unit at home sounded different. Initially I thought it was due to a different DAC used, but within the first 10-15 hours I started noticing some changes in the sound. By now it has worked about double that and the sound is more or less what I remember from the store. Which is a good thing, may I add. 
 Warm up doesn't seem to have any noticeable impact.


----------



## rx79ez08

pleasantsounds said:


> Speaking of balance, I do have one minor gripe: the way the balance control works in my unit. When I turn it to the right, the right channel goes louder, but there's no change in the left. When turning left, it attenuates the right channel but the left remains unchanged. In the end the outcome is the balance shift, but it also impacts the overall volume level. I don't believe it is like that by design, but inspecting the interior failed to unravel any issues with the assembly quality. It's not a big concern as I hardly ever need to touch the balance, but at this price point I'm not too keen to accept anything less than perfect. Can someone please confirm that their unit behaves as expected (i.e. when volume in one channel goes down, it goes up in the other) when using the balance control?


 
  
 My unit is behaving exactly the same as your. Pretty sure this is intentional and how Violectric decide to implement it. If you look at their phono amp the V600 which have similar balance adjustment function, then it become pretty clear:
  
 http://cdn.head-fi.org/6/62/900x900px-LL-62367098_V6002013Front.jpeg


----------



## PleasantSounds

rx79ez08 said:


> My unit is behaving exactly the same as your. Pretty sure this is intentional and how Violectric decide to implement it. If you look at their phono amp the V600 which have similar balance adjustment function, then it become pretty clear:
> 
> http://cdn.head-fi.org/6/62/900x900px-LL-62367098_V6002013Front.jpeg


 
  
 Thanks. 
 Even though I'm perplexed why they have chosen the "poor man's balance" approach in their flagship unit, it's still reassuring that the unit works as designed.


----------



## Viper2005

pleasantsounds said:


> Speaking of balance, I do have one minor gripe: the way the balance control works in my unit. When I turn it to the right, the right channel goes louder, but there's no change in the left. When turning left, it attenuates the right channel but the left remains unchanged. In the end the outcome is the balance shift, but it also impacts the overall volume level. I don't believe it is like that by design, but inspecting the interior failed to unravel any issues with the assembly quality. It's not a big concern as I hardly ever need to touch the balance, but at this price point I'm not too keen to accept anything less than perfect. Can someone please confirm that their unit behaves as expected (i.e. when volume in one channel goes down, it goes up in the other) when using the balance control?




So what you are saying is, the balance knob is behaving like a volume control for the right channel only?
What an odd implementation...


----------



## setamp

viper2005 said:


> So what you are saying is, the balance knob is behaving like a volume control for the right channel only?
> What an odd implementation...


 

 Like one eyepiece on a pair of binoculars?


----------



## roskodan

viper2005 said:


> pleasantsounds said:
> 
> 
> > Speaking of balance, I do have one minor gripe: the way the balance control works in my unit. When I turn it to the right, the right channel goes louder, but there's no change in the left. When turning left, it attenuates the right channel but the left remains unchanged. In the end the outcome is the balance shift, but it also impacts the overall volume level. I don't believe it is like that by design, but inspecting the interior failed to unravel any issues with the assembly quality. It's not a big concern as I hardly ever need to touch the balance, but at this price point I'm not too keen to accept anything less than perfect. Can someone please confirm that their unit behaves as expected (i.e. when volume in one channel goes down, it goes up in the other) when using the balance control?
> ...


 

 if the amp is fully balanced from gain to power stage, maybe it has something to do with the balance control operating on both single ended (v220) amps inside, one for the left and one for the right channel, independently, so you will have a balance control operating on both channels simultaneous only out of the balanced xlr output, which is again also quite odd, but could make sense, if one wants to avoid using balanced potentiometers for whatever reason


----------



## PleasantSounds

roskodan said:


> if the amp is fully balanced from gain to power stage, maybe it has something to do with the balance control operating on both single ended (v220) amps inside, one for the left and one for the right channel, independently, so you will have a balance control operating on both channels simultaneous only out of the balanced xlr output, which is again also quite add, but could make sense, if one wants to avoid using balanced potentiometers for whatever reason


 
  
 Nope. I'm using mostly the balanced out and it acts the same way as SE.
 Think of balance control as a secondary volume pot, just with one of the sections connected backwards. That's how it is usually done. If you can control volume, you can control balance.


----------



## roskodan

pleasantsounds said:


> roskodan said:
> 
> 
> > ...only out of the balanced xlr output, which is again also quite add, but could make sense, if one wants to avoid using balanced potentiometers for whatever reason
> ...


 
 that was my assumption, in which case you would need a balanced aka 4 channel pot for it to work on both channels simultaneously, or not?
  
 which makes me wonder if the volume pot is balanced aka dual stereo aka 4 channel?


----------



## saxelrod92

roskodan said:


> that was my assumption, in which case you would need a balanced aka 4 channel pot for it to work on both channels simultaneously, or not?
> 
> which makes me wonder if the volume pot is balanced aka dual stereo aka 4 channel?


 

 if you open up the V281 the balance control and volume control use the same alps rk27 pot, and are attached upside down onto a pcb board that is mounted diagonally(so both pots line up externally in their positions). The issues being stated from the balance control are not normal operation. As I mentioned previously normally it just raises the volume of one channel and slightly lowers the other, and vice versa, +/- 6dB. If it is only affecting one channel, then it is not working right. Volume pots are not always perfect, I'm sure it's just a defect inside the pot, and a simply replacement would fix the issue.
  
 edit- When working properly it should give you the sensation of sliding the center image side to side or your head. play a vocal track (which is usually in the center) and move the balance control side to side, the voice should feel as if you are moving a dot in front of your head to the left or right up to a certain degree.


----------



## PleasantSounds

saxelrod92 said:


> if you open up the V281 the balance control and volume control use the same alps rk27 pot, and are attached upside down onto a pcb board that is mounted diagonally(so both pots line up externally in their positions). The issues being stated from the balance control are not normal operation. As I mentioned previously normally it just raises the volume of one channel and slightly lowers the other, and vice versa, +/- 6dB. If it is only affecting one channel, then it is not working right. Volume pots are not always perfect, I'm sure it's just a defect inside the pot, and a simply replacement would fix the issue.
> 
> edit- When working properly it should give you the sensation of sliding the center image side to side or your head. play a vocal track (which is usually in the center) and move the balance control side to side, the voice should feel as if you are moving a dot in front of your head to the left or right up to a certain degree.


 
  
 Well, I've gone a step further. I have played a sine wave from a generator and recorded the output back on the PC. Looking at the signal amplitude in Audacity it is clear that signal in one channel remains unchanged, while the other goes up or down with the pot rotation.
  
 The effect regarding the center of the image is the same - it shifts to one or the other side. But at the same time it gets louder or quieter and I have to compensate with volume.
  
 I have just contacted my vendor and they're going to find out from Violectric what the real story is.


----------



## Megalomaniak

Quick update after almost 3 weeks of balanced listening. (to almost every genre, always with the best recordings I could find).
  
 I finally have come to the conclusion that with the LCD-2, the balanced output doesnt deliver better bass/mids or trebble, the SE output sounds to my ears close to none in differences about this.
  
 BUT, the thing you notice is the soundstage and imaging, overall balance of these 2 things. With the balanced output the LCD-2 opens more with wider recordings and images better with closer recordings, (of course wider ones image is better too) and this, in the very first days made me think that the balanced output sounded more neutral, which I was not very sure about liking it better or not.
  
 But I havent noticed more trebble, or more forward mids, or deeper/punchier bass. All you get from SE (which is very good) you get it from BAL, but with the soundstage and image improvement. And I frikking love that.
  
 This also helps to define the sound better, with vocals, guitars, bass, etc. "It cleans the sound" a little bit.
  
 Conclusion for me is that with this combo I have the sound that allows me to listen with extreme detail and no harsh at all. I dont need more (doh, this is not cheap xD).


----------



## Zkadoush

fegefeuer said:


> So last night I sent Hans in, a highly-skilled water Ninja from zhe great lake of Bodensee, look what he found:


 
 Hallo da Fegefeur,

 Hast du vielleicht auch einige Bilder von der V220 Verstärker?

 Grüße aus Neu Zeland


----------



## roskodan

do not forget to try the balanced xlr output at -6dB pre-gain


----------



## fdg

*About Balance Control inside V220 / V281 / V600*
  
 The standard balance control interacts between both channels and will surely affect the crosstalk in a negative way.
 If you dont want to affect the crosstalk simply give up any balance control - what is made by most manufacturers of high end gear.
  
 Or think about an alternative way to interact between both channels if you think this might be a neccessary feature.
*So did we !!* 
 Our balance control will not affect the crosstalk because it is acting in only one channel.
 The result is the same, the center position will move a bit from left to right or vice versa when turning the knob.
 Also it is intended to do this only by +/- 6 dB
 Because when the imbalances from the source, the cans, the hearing will be greater, a balance control would not help.
 So everbody is invited to decide if this implementation is rather odd or ingenious  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Reading the manual (page 17) would also explain the reason. 
  
 Greetz
  
 Fried


----------



## Zkadoush

fdg said:


> *About Balance Control inside V220 / V281 / V600*
> 
> The standard balance control interacts between both channels and will surely affect the crosstalk in a negative way.
> If you dont want to affect the crosstalk simply give up any balance control - what is made by most manufacturers of high end gear.
> ...


 


 Hi Fried,

 Is it possible to download the V281/V220 manuals as Pdf?

 Cheers


----------



## fdg

Manuals from V220 / V281

 can be found here:   http://violectric-usa.com/downloads


----------



## Zkadoush

fdg said:


> Manuals from V220 / V281
> 
> can be found here:   http://violectric-usa.com/downloads


 

 Thanks Fried,

 Checking them out now.

 Cheers


----------



## Drewligarchy

I just received my silver Violectric V281 on Wednesday from Violectric USA.
  
 First, I just gotta say that Arthur provided some of the best customer service I've received in regards to audio electronics or otherwise. Also, As he is in NJ, and I was in NY - I was fortunate enough to get the amp 1 day after I ordered it! He responded to all of my questions incredibly quickly, and is clearly very knowledgeable and passionate about audio. I can't recommend him enough.
  
 Now onto the amp. The reason I purchased it was to primarily drive my LCD XCs, and any other high-end headphones I buy moving forward. I had been running the XCs from a Woo WA7 with the upgraded electro harmonix tubes - and while this pairing was incredibly detailed, I felt it was recessed in mid-bass and bass extension (though certainly not poor by any means). Anyhow, I just couldn't help feeling like I was missing something when listening to certain music.
  
 While the XCs are very sensitive, and don't necessarily require a very powerful amp, the v281 did exactly what I wanted - bottomless bass extension, more mid-bass heft, more weight overall, without sacrificing detail. What's more is I have never heard bass so hefty yet well controlled - it's fast, it's prominent, it's extremely textured but never boomy and doesn't bleed into the mids. It does miss a tiny bit of air that the WA7 had, but I would gladly make the trade off for the added low end depth.
  
 I absolutely love this pairing, and I feel like it provides the bass that you get from the LCD 2s and 3s with the treble extension you get with the Xs. I am feeding a Chord Hugo into both this amp and my Stax SRM 717 (which drives my 007 mk2), and running the XCs balanced into the v281.
  
 If you have X(Cs) and want an end game set up - plus the ability to drive any new phones you might buy in the future - I can't recommend this setup more highly. And, despite the sensitivity of the XCs the background is completely and utterly black.
  
 Arthur also indicated that I got the absolute last unit before more shipments come in in the next few weeks - so I guess I got very lucky and ordered at the exact right time.
  
 I'm going to the beach for Labor Day weekend, and part of me is upset I can't bring this with me!
  
 My set up is pictured below. My Chord Hugo is behind the surface pro 2 running J River (I'm also runnin XBMCs Qboz plugin for streaming which is great). And, yes, I am very careful not to spill the nice whiskey I have on top onto these expensive electronics. This used to be a bourbon/scotch bar that I converted into a headphone rack.
  
 Congrats to Vioelectric for creating a phenomenal amp and thanks to Arthur for his awesome customer service!


----------



## hennessys

Nice surrundings for the amp, but a bit close call with the drinks to my taste. Does all five botles come with the US Violectric shipments?
  
 Maybe i should get mine from overseas?
  
 Hmmm, fine music with fine wishkey...


----------



## roskodan

@Drewligarchy @hennessys
  
 One just needs to make sure that the liquor is over proofed to navy strength level, or higher 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, so that the gear can still fire in case some of the liquor gets accidentally sloshed onto it during choppy sessions


----------



## project86

Spent the evening alternating between my electrostatic rig (KGSShv driving Stax SR-4070) and the V281 driving Noble K10 (single ended mode, so kind of like a V220 I guess), all driven from a Resonessence Labs Invicta Mirus. Holy cow, not sure which one I actually liked more. Let's just say V281 is.... special.... with CIEMs. I also got in some JH13 and Lear BD 4.2, and even my UM Merlins just for fun. No hiss at all on -6dB pregain setting, and a good amount of usable volume range. Love that big knob they used. 
  
 I need to break out the balanced cable, but for SE use the V220/V281 is already killer.


----------



## saxelrod92

drewligarchy said:


> I just received my silver Violectric V281 on Wednesday from Violectric USA.
> 
> First, I just gotta say that Arthur provided some of the best customer service I've received in regards to audio electronics or otherwise. Also, As he is in NJ, and I was in NY - I was fortunate enough to get the amp 1 day after I ordered it! He responded to all of my questions incredibly quickly, and is clearly very knowledgeable and passionate about audio. I can't recommend him enough.
> 
> ...


 
 You are now the second person in all of North America to own a V281 (I'm the first, theres no way to say that and be humble at the same time lol).
  
 I was dealing with Arthur for the last couple weeks actually because of some minor problems that occurred with my V281 (some missing screws for the top amp, and a loose ribbon cable for that amp, probably due to lack of screws). I sent the amp back to Arthur, who then personally spent hours checking to make sure everything was in perfect order, put in the screws, and even hot glued the ribbon cable connector for extra certainty. then he of course listened to it for a bit. Put it in a new box and shipped it back to me within a couple days of him receiving it. He always answered any email I had within a matter of hours, no matter what time of day or night, and made sure to only send back the amp once to him it was considered perfect. He seriously does his job way above and beyond than anyone else I've ever dealt with. Really nice guy.
  
 I got the amp back today and everything is all in check, and I've been using it for the last couple hours again. It makes me feel like everything just works with it, like any headphone, any source material, it just go through the amp and comes perfectly out the other side in just the right way you would expect it to. Right now I tried with LCD 2s and Denon d5000s, with the LCD 2s I have it set to +6dB when on SE 1/4in jacks. I'm still figuring out if its better that way or not for me, until I can get a cable to use it in balanced, which should be pretty soon.


----------



## saxelrod92

Still catching back with my V281 after getting it back, and I was just curious for you guys using the LCD 2/equivalently hard to drive headphones, what pre-gain settings are you using? I wanna see if I'm seemingly blasting my music or roughly the same as most of you guys  lol.
  
 Currently I'm using +6dB when on the 1/4in jacks. (no balanced cable just yet to try that connection out, which I figure might negate needing the +6dB when I get there).


----------



## project86

Yep, that sounds about right. Depending on the output voltage of the DAC I'm using at the time, I figure anywhere from -6dB, 0dB, or +6dB could work with Audeze and others like that. It also depends on how comfortable you are with cranking the knob way up close to the max. Some people just feel weird doing that for whatever reason, while others fancy that as ideal (essentially taking the potentiometer out if the equation, not that Violectric uses a bad pot or anything). I would probably not use the minimums or max pregain settings very often. I guess if it was my dedicated iem only amp then I'd go -12dB, or HE-6 only then I'd go with the max setting.


----------



## saxelrod92

project86 said:


> Yep, that sounds about right. Depending on the output voltage of the DAC I'm using at the time, I figure anywhere from -6dB, 0dB, or +6dB could work with Audeze and others like that. It also depends on how comfortable you are with cranking the knob way up close to the max. Some people just feel weird doing that for whatever reason, while others fancy that as ideal (essentially taking the potentiometer out if the equation, not that Violectric uses a bad pot or anything). I would probably not use the minimums or max pregain settings very often. I guess if it was my dedicated iem only amp then I'd go -12dB, or HE-6 only then I'd go with the max setting.


 
 I think that sounds pretty logical to me. I'm the schiit bifrost uber, so thats a solid 2v output. I didn't think about the fact that some people prefer the volume knob turned up higher. Even though these amps are dead quiet all the way up, I always figured the less you had to turn up the knob, the better (past the initial first quarter of course). I just figured keeping good volume between 11-1 o'clock was best, and that gain should be set accordingly to achieve that with whatever headphone is being used. Like before I had the V281 I had a Burson soloist SL and it got too noisey past 2-3 o'clock, so keeping it at good volume without turning it up that far was essential.


----------



## Megalomaniak

saxelrod92 said:


> Still catching back with my V281 after getting it back, and I was just curious for you guys using the LCD 2/equivalently hard to drive headphones, what pre-gain settings are you using? I wanna see if I'm seemingly blasting my music or roughly the same as most of you guys  lol.
> 
> Currently I'm using +6dB when on the 1/4in jacks. (no balanced cable just yet to try that connection out, which I figure might negate needing the +6dB when I get there).


 
  
 Since my DAC is RCA and does output 2Vrms, and my LCD-2 run balanced, I use pre-gain at 0dbs. And never go past 13 o'clock for insanely low recorded or high DR recordings.


----------



## saxelrod92

megalomaniak said:


> Since my DAC is RCA and does output 2Vrms, and my LCD-2 run balanced, I use pre-gain at 0dbs. And never go past 13 o'clock for insanely low recorded or high DR recordings.


 

 Yea my dac also does 2v, so I tried going back to 0dB and see how that feels for a bit. So far once you get used to it, I also don't need to go past 1 o'clock or so, even on SE.


----------



## Megalomaniak

saxelrod92 said:


> Yea my dac also does 2v, so I tried going back to 0dB and see how that feels for a bit. So far once you get used to it, I also don't need to go past 1 o'clock or so, even on SE.


 
  
 Yep, not even in SE.


----------



## Frank I

Just  put the V281 i my system. The sound is good right out of the box. Very nice and similar house sound for Violectric that I  amused to.


----------



## project86

saxelrod92 said:


> Yea my dac also does 2v, so I tried going back to 0dB and see how that feels for a bit. So far once you get used to it, I also don't need to go past 1 o'clock or so, even on SE.


 
  
  
 It's funny how initially your brain doesn't like having to crank the knob higher than 12 o'clock. Like you somehow think there's a shortage of power involved (which in this case is most certainly NOT the case). Once you get over that hurdle, it's actually kinda nice to have a really broad range to adjust volume. 
  
  


frank i said:


> Just  put the V281 i my system. The sound is good right out of the box. Very nice and similar house sound for Violectric that I  amused to.


 
  
  
 Nice! Yeah, the single ended outputs are a clear evolution from the V200 sound, with subtle but noticeable improvements. The balanced mode takes it that much farther. Have fun!


----------



## Frank I

I have been listening to the V281 balanced today with the Hd800 and did some single ended listening with the  HE560. The amp has that familiar Violectric house sound. Warmer without any solid state glare. It is well built which is what I come to expect from Freid amplifiers.


----------



## Frank I

I am finding that Freid addressed the soundstage with this new V281. Much wider than the V200 that I had.


----------



## project86

frank i said:


> I am finding that Freid addressed the soundstage with this new V281. Much wider than the V200 that I had.


 
  
  
 Exactly! Even in SE mode I sense a little improvement there, but balanced really shines.


----------



## Frank I

John I can see the differences form the V200 mostly in soundstage and wish i still had one to compare to this V281.  Love the way it is sounding so far both single ended and balanced. it does well at low levels also. I havenot adjusted any of the setting as of yet.


----------



## Zkadoush

project86 said:


> Exactly! Even in SE mode I sense a little improvement there, but balanced really shines.


 

 Would be interesting to know what accounts for a wider or more spacious soundstage in terms of measurable audio performance, when it comes to Amps.

 Cheers


----------



## Zkadoush

fdg said:


> @ rx79ez08
> 
> There seems to be a little missunderstanding ...
> 
> ...




Hi Fried,

Yet another little question:

Does having a volume control like the one of the Benchmark DAC 2 (hybrid gain control) make Violectric's second optional volume control redundant? 

How does the A/D converter of the VC2 affect the audio signal?

Cheers


----------



## Megalomaniak

Thats one thing I noticed while using the LCD-2s via Balanced mode. Soundstage was even better.


----------



## Jodet

frank i said:


> I am finding that Freid addressed the soundstage with this new V281. Much wider than the V200 that I had.


 
  
 Frank, 
  
 Looking forward to your comments on both the V281 and the V220. 
  
 Congrats on the new website, very nice! 
  
  
http://headphone.guru/


----------



## Frank I

Mike,
  
 Thank you and really enjoying it . We have sone great reviews coming this month from a gifted team of contributors.


----------



## Jodet

Some advice here please. 
  
 The V281 has balanced inputs, yes?   So, it's $500 for amp over the V220 (non-balanced) and another $300 for the balanced cables.   
  
 Balanced really make that much of a difference on HD800's? 
  
 All comments, speculation, etc, welcome.


----------



## PleasantSounds

jodet said:


> Some advice here please.
> 
> The V281 has balanced inputs, yes?   So, it's $500 for amp over the V220 (non-balanced) and another $300 for the balanced cables.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not sure where you buying your balanced cables, but I'd look for a different supplier. $40 should be enough to get decent quality XLR cables to connect your DAC with amp.
  
 Whether the benefit justifies the cost difference is up to your own evaluation. But if you consider that to get that benefit you basically have two V220s in one, I don't have a problem justifying the pricing.
  
 I'm using it with the HD800 in balanced mode and this pairing is very good. The difference between SE and balanced is mostly that the sounds feel more "articulate". In SE mode by comparison the impression is that some oomph is missing to deliver that finishing touch, especially with more dynamic sounds.
  
 I have a feeling though that the HD800 are a bit overdampened on this amp - especially the bass does not "sound out" as expected. I'm planning to build a simple impedance adapter and see if it helps.


----------



## fdg

@ Zkadoush
  
 The HGC from Benchmarks DAC 2 seems to adjust the volume of analog and digital sources in different ways.
 The digital sources are controlled in a digital manner like we do it inside DAC V800.
 The analog level seems to be treated by a motorized custom made potentiometer which might also serve to generate the control signal needed for the digital attenuation.
 The "low impedance output attenuation" which provides up to 425 Ohms output impedance is doubtful in my opinion - but as Benchmark is regarded (also by me) as a company with highest engineering skills maybe there is a deeper reason behind.
  
 The "Level 2" or "128-step relay controlled attenuation" of V220 and V281 is totally different from Benchmark´s HGC and unfortunately much more expensive to be produced.
 The only thing they share is that the control voltage is made in a similar way by a motor driven potentiometer and sent to an A/D converter (in case of DAC 2 this concerns the digital volume control).
  
 The A/D converter inside V220 / V281 in charge to generate the control voltage for the 128-step relay attenuator has nothing to do with any analog signal and thus will not affect the quality of the analog signal.


----------



## Zkadoush

fdg said:


> @ Zkadoush
> 
> The HGC from Benchmarks DAC 2 seems to adjust the volume of analog and digital sources in different ways.
> The digital sources are controlled in a digital manner like we do it inside DAC V800.
> ...


 

 Thanks again for the patient explanations, Fried, much appreciated!

 I too noticed that the 425 Ohm of the default 10 dB attenuator (of the DAC 2's balanced analogue outputs) is extraordinarily high. I thought maybe it had something to do with matching their AHB2 Power Amp (that now has fully detailed specs: http://benchmarkmedia.com/products/benchmark-ahb2-power-amplifier).

 Would you recommend using the default 425 Ohm 10 dB attenuator - based on the output impedance - with the V281, or perhaps any of the other options (attenuator off: 60 Ohm; 20 dB attenuator: 135 Ohm)?

 My main concern was that using a DAC 2 would render a V281 with VC2 option redundant, but since they are essentially different can I assume the benefits of both volume controls can be enjoyed?


 Thanks again, Fried.

 Schöne Grüße


----------



## saxelrod92

pleasantsounds said:


> Not sure where you buying your balanced cables, but I'd look for a different supplier. $40 should be enough to get decent quality XLR cables to connect your DAC with amp.
> 
> Whether the benefit justifies the cost difference is up to your own evaluation. But if you consider that to get that benefit you basically have two V220s in one, I don't have a problem justifying the pricing.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm asking this from a relatively basic knowledge of impedance matching, but I thought the only time the impedance of the amp can affect the sound of the headphone is when the amp is too high for the headphones or when the amp is not powerful enough for a higher impedance headphone (hd 800, beyer t1). Otherwise the V281 in balanced mode puts out huge amounts of power into both ohm ratings of those headphones, how can they be overdampened? (genuine question, not a statement of opinion, if overdampening is a thing, I'd love to know how that works).


----------



## project86

In a nutshell, some people find that they enjoy HD800 from an amp with higher output impedance. It sort of loosens up the bass, making it more prominent but also not as well controlled. I have a tube amp (Icon Audio HP8) that allows me to increase output impedance with a knob, and sometimes it's a nice result on certain music.


----------



## PleasantSounds

saxelrod92 said:


> I'm asking this from a relatively basic knowledge of impedance matching, but I thought the only time the impedance of the amp can affect the sound of the headphone is when the amp is too high for the headphones or when the amp is not powerful enough for a higher impedance headphone (hd 800, beyer t1). Otherwise the V281 in balanced mode puts out huge amounts of power into both ohm ratings of those headphones, how can they be overdampened? (genuine question, not a statement of opinion, if overdampening is a thing, I'd love to know how that works).


 
  
 It's not so much about power. High impedance headphones may require higher voltage swing, but draw less current. 1V * 1A or 10V * 0.1A still is 1W.
  
 The amp's output impedance has it's own purpose: to tame the electric impulses generated by the transducers when returning to their idle position. In principle this "backcurrent" is an unwanted effect and the ability to remove it completely sounds like a desirable treat. But as project86 stated, sometimes there can be too much of the good thing and letting some of it to flow through can sometimes have a positive effect on sound.
  
 I have encountered on some recordings bass just going fart-fart-fart on the HD800, but not on my low impedance headphones or speakers. I'm not sure myself if increasing output impedance is going to fix this (and what side effects it's going to bring), but it's a simple experiment so why not.


----------



## saxelrod92

pleasantsounds said:


> It's not so much about power. High impedance headphones may require higher voltage swing, but draw less current. 1V * 1A or 10V * 0.1A still is 1W.
> 
> The amp's output impedance has it's own purpose: to tame the electric impulses generated by the transducers when returning to their idle position. In principle this "backcurrent" is an unwanted effect and the ability to remove it completely sounds like a desirable treat. But as project86 stated, sometimes there can be too much of the good thing and letting some of it to flow through can sometimes have a positive effect on sound.
> 
> I have encountered on some recordings bass just going fart-fart-fart on the HD800, but not on my low impedance headphones or speakers. I'm not sure myself if increasing output impedance is going to fix this (and what side effects it's going to bring), but it's a simple experiment so why not.


 

 Ok, I see how that all works now. Thank you for the useful info! It sounds like it is almost a similar situation to tubes vs. solid state, where the distortion is tubes is what makes them sound warm, just like the less technical ability of an amp to remove "backcurrent" as you say can add a bit more bass. Both are technically engineering "flaws" but are musically correct. Interesting stuff.


----------



## PleasantSounds

saxelrod92 said:


> Ok, I see how that all works now. Thank you for the useful info! It sounds like it is almost a similar situation to tubes vs. solid state, where the distortion is tubes is what makes them sound warm, just like the less technical ability of an amp to remove "backcurrent" as you say can add a bit more bass. Both are technically engineering "flaws" but are musically correct. Interesting stuff.


 
  
 Just to make one thing clear: I'm not saying there's not enough bass for me. The tonal balance is very good, bass goes really deep and is never weak. But I'm not used to the low notes ending so abruptly. Maybe it's me, maybe it's the recordings...


----------



## saxelrod92

pleasantsounds said:


> Just to make one thing clear: I'm not saying there's not enough bass for me. The tonal balance is very good, bass goes really deep and is never weak. But I'm not used to the low notes ending so abruptly. Maybe it's me, maybe it's the recordings...


 

 Gotcha, I'm actually about to get a few weeks time with a hd800 starting later today so I can tell you if I feel the same way or not, or more importantly if I notice it as much or not, compared to everything I have heard previously. Plus I play drums in real life, so I am pretty familiar with the low bass thump tone of a drum kit (bass drum, and the different tunings of toms).


----------



## PleasantSounds

saxelrod92 said:


> Gotcha, I'm actually about to get a few weeks time with a hd800 starting later today so I can tell you if I feel the same way or not, or more importantly if I notice it as much or not, compared to everything I have heard previously. Plus I play drums in real life, so I am pretty familiar with the low bass thump tone of a drum kit (bass drum, and the different tunings of toms).


 
  
 Hope you're getting them with balanced cable - it does make a lot of difference on this amp.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Has anyone tried any of the add-on DACs? 
  
 I have ordered the 24/192 Coax one. Today it has been delivered, but as it turned out, my supplier has sent me the USB version. Out of curiosity I have installed it and... well... it's the first DAC ever that does not play nicely with my setup. 
  
 First thing I noticed not quite to my liking is the fact that the DAC is not powered until you select it as a source. So it's not visible as an available device in my player. Fried will probably say it's an ingenious feature, and to some it may well be. I could live with that if that was the only issue. But it isn't.
  
 What happens is if you break the stream rapidly, the DAC loses the plot. For example in Foobar, trying to advance to the next song in the middle of one leads to Foobar freezing. I have never seen this before with any other DAC. Hope it's just a software driver issue as that would be easiest to fix.
  
 Other than that it sounded really good: plenty of detail, spacious sound with no sign of harshness. Really not bad for it's price.
  
 Well, tomorrow it goes back to the supplier and I hope that the Coax version won't have any stability issues.


----------



## roskodan

it's the same TE8802L chip that came by default with the burson conductor
  
 it needs the driver from violectric to be installed properly to work properly
  
 http://violectric-usa.com/downloads


----------



## project86

I've been using the USB version of the 24/192 DAC. It's pretty dang impressive considering the price. No sub-$300 stand alone DAC I've tried can match what I'm hearing. But, I did have some compatibility problems with my Linux based music server. Plays great with regular 16/44.1 tracks but not so nice with Hi-Res stuff. 
  
 I'll have to try it on a Mac and a Windows machine to see how it does. But for sound quality alone, it is great so far.


----------



## PleasantSounds

roskodan said:


> it's the same TE8802L chip that came by default with the burson conductor
> 
> it needs the driver from violectric to be installed properly to work properly
> 
> http://violectric-usa.com/downloads


 
  
 I had the drivers installed, machine rebooted. I even reinstalled the drivers to make sure.


----------



## roskodan

guess it's up to something else that, a lot of conductor users too complained about all kind of funny behavior, me personally never had a problem, os x, win, amarra, audirvana, foobar wasapi asio ks etc. all worked fine, the previous owner however had a lot of trouble and had to use a third party usb to coax interface, strange stuff this TE8802L


----------



## rx79ez08

pleasantsounds said:


> Has anyone tried any of the add-on DACs?
> 
> I have ordered the 24/192 Coax one. Today it has been delivered, but as it turned out, my supplier has sent me the USB version. Out of curiosity I have installed it and... well... it's the first DAC ever that does not play nicely with my setup.
> 
> ...


 

 If you still have the DAC and you are using Foobar, try this.
  
 Set the output to DS mode, not WASAPI. I found that the DAC is unstable with WASAPI or other output, but it is relatively stable in DS mode.


----------



## PleasantSounds

rx79ez08 said:


> If you still have the DAC and you are using Foobar, try this.
> 
> Set the output to DS mode, not WASAPI. I found that the DAC is unstable with WASAPI or other output, but it is relatively stable in DS mode.


 
  
 Thanks rx but to me the whole point of having a DAC with ASIO drivers is to bypass the Windows sound. I believe that with some determination and effort I would have managed to get it working properly. But that was just a quick trial of something I wasn't intending to use in the long run.
  
 I already got my DAC with Coax interface. No issues with this one whatsoever: syncing perfectly at all speeds. I'll have to spend some time with it to talk about it's sonic properties, but the initial impressions are quite positive.


----------



## roskodan

asio is not supported unless specified by the manufacturer of the dac, that must provide the asio drivers and it needs additional licensing for commercial use
  
 also asio seems not recommended as a personal audiophile streaming protocol
  
 Quote: http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_asio 





> Please note that this component is meant for systems where ASIO is the only available output method. It is highly recommended to use the default output modes instead of ASIO. Contrary to popular "audiophile" claims, there are NO benefits from using ASIO as far as music playback quality is concerned, while bugs in ASIO drivers may severely degrade the performance.


----------



## Remior

If anyone it's having problems with native ASIO there are a solution:
  
 http://www.asio4all.com/
  
 WASAPI (Event Mode) it's at least as good as  native ASIO too. Dont' forget to put high priority process (Real Time) on Windows Task Manager the program you play your music (foobar, Aimp, etc etc)


----------



## Zkadoush

Violectric's New website is up!

http://www.violectric.de/

Congrats!


----------



## TwoEars

zkadoush said:


> Violectric's New website is up!
> 
> http://www.violectric.de/
> 
> Congrats!


 
  
 Very nice! Good works guys, much better than the old one!


----------



## Jodet

Does the HPA V220 have its own thread?  
  
 Surprised there's no reviews on that yet.


----------



## saxelrod92

jodet said:


> Does the HPA V220 have its own thread?
> 
> Surprised there's no reviews on that yet.


 

 it doesn't have one. Also it doesn't really have any reviews because nobody really owns one yet lol. Not to mention if you use the single ended jacks on the V281 you are essentially using it like a V220 so the reviews for it, apply for the V220.


----------



## Frank I

Mike we are working in the V200 as well as the V281 Warren Chi has the V220 and should appear next month as well as I am working on the V281 now


----------



## Frank I

saxelrod92 said:


> it doesn't have one. Also it doesn't really have any reviews because nobody really owns one yet lol. Not to mention if you use the single ended jacks on the V281 you are essentially using it like a V220 so the reviews for it, apply for the V220.


 
 coming soon are the reviews. The V220 will be early October And V281 shortly thereafter.


----------



## Byrnie

frank i said:


> coming soon are the reviews. The V200 will be early October And V281 shortly thereafter.


 
 ^pro


----------



## Nomax




----------



## project86

Looking good in black - the V281 as well as the Alpha Dogs.


----------



## audionewbi

Which one of their amp is good for iem? I already have couple of a dac and honestly tried alot of "high end" portable amps and I think time to experiment with desktop amps.

I already have the Hugo as a dac, thank you un advance guys.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Go for the V281. Honestly, better have flexibility for all kind of uses, unless you strictly stay with IEMs only. Once you don't you'll seriously regret it with the first fullsize. However if you really intend to use IEMs only a V200 will be good enough.


----------



## project86

fegefeuer said:


> Go for the V281. Honestly, better have flexibility for all kind of uses, unless you strictly stay with IEMs only. Once you don't you'll seriously regret it with the first fullsize. However if you really intend to use IEMs only a V200 will be good enough.


 
  
  
 This.
  
 V200 is oh-so-good with IEMs, and quite nice with everything else too. V281 is end-game for any headphone out there. Take your pick.


----------



## Frank I

I am with Project 86 with this. I been listening to the V281 and I could live with this amp as it is really very good with everything I have thrown at it. I think the balanced amp or even single ended this could fulfill most headphone listeners  needs for a very long time.


----------



## setamp

It will be interesting to read comparisons between the V281 and the new Schiit Ragnarok - another end-game amp


----------



## roskodan

i could have sworn i already commented on your post... strange.. i must be getting old
  
 anyway...
  
 now you need expensive furniture and a leica 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 ad vs abyss?
  

  
 the problem i had with iems on violectric amps is you can't easily switch gain, not really an issue if you are ok with setting the volume by means of your source / software
  
 also with the v200 my shure se530 were really mellow and since iems will be very sensible to the amp coloration and power, it can feel like an overkill
  
 other than that, pitch black bg and terrific dynamics works great with sensible iems


----------



## Zkadoush

"V200 is oh-so-good with IEMs, and quite nice with everything else too. V281 is end-game for any headphone out there. Take your pick." 

No more two sentence interventions, you have to go on the record with the full review, project86. Loong overdue.

The thread has almost died out without real and full featured reviews; many relevant questions have been asked to Fried (almost all have been answered), but now it's time for more elaborated impressions, feedback and comparisons.

Cheers!


----------



## Nomax

And the hd 800 with XLR cable Sounds Amazing in balanced Mode 

REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## navigavi

zkadoush said:


> "V200 is oh-so-good with IEMs, and quite nice with everything else too. V281 is end-game for any headphone out there. Take your pick."
> 
> No more two sentence interventions, you have to go on the record with the full review, project86. Loong overdue.
> 
> ...


 

 I second that. People want to know where to empty their wallets


----------



## project86

Sorry everyone - I've been trying to wrap up some other reviews which have taken far too much of my time.
  
 Now, about that V281..... It's breathtaking. Extremely smooth but still has great extension and clarity on the top end. Very organic, or what some might call "analog", without being obviously colored. Soundstage, especially with the balanced out, is impressively wide. But more importantly it has the corresponding image accuracy to make that wide/deep soundstage seem very convincing. This is the mark of a truly great amp - some have accurate imaging, some have a big soundstage, but you really need both of those working _together _in harmony to be highly convincing in a top level system. V281 does it very well indeed, among the best I've heard.
  
 Let's see..... ideal with my CIEMs on -6dB pregain setting. I don't even need to adjust the pregain any higher with most headphones, just crank that big knob further to the right if needed. LCD-3, HD800, Alpha Dogs, HE-500, etc are all perfectly fine for my listening preferences, with the exception of certain quiet music (or when I really want to rock out). HE-6 does usually need more gain though, especially when listening to those quiet recordings. If I didn't use IEMs I'd probably run it on 0 pregain which would be perfect for every headphone out there including HE-6. This assumes a balanced source with the usual 4V output or slightly higher..... I haven't played with feeding it RCA yet, but the lower voltage there would probably mean 0dB or +6dB pregain most of the time. 
  
 Not sure I can go much further than that at this point. I will say I'm using the V281 more often than any other amp these days - including Taurus mkII, Icon Audio HP8, and even the dual mono Questyle CMA800R setup. Is it _better_ than all of those (each of which I absolutely adore)? Not sure yet, but there's definitely potential.


----------



## project86

setamp said:


> It will be interesting to read comparisons between the V281 and the new Schiit Ragnarok - another end-game amp


 
  
  
 Sorry I have not heard the Ragnarok yet, but I intend to when my schedule frees up (which may not happen for a while).


----------



## Nomax

I was Hearing the cavalli liguid Gold(much much higher price)was owner in the past luxman p700u But THIS is ONE of BEST AMPS in the World today beside my PHONITOR 2!
And THE V281 is a real MACHINE and drives my ABYSS very very well 

BIG THANKS AGAIN TO FRIED!!

NOMAX


----------



## zsolt

Great review! What's your impressions about the 24/192 USB add-on?


----------



## BobG55

project86 said:


> Sorry everyone - I've been trying to wrap up some other reviews which have taken far too much of my time.
> 
> Now, about that V281..... It's breathtaking. Extremely smooth but still has great extension and clarity on the top end. Very organic, or what some might call "analog", without being obviously colored. Soundstage, especially with the balanced out, is impressively wide. But more importantly it has the corresponding image accuracy to make that wide/deep soundstage seem very convincing. This is the mark of a truly great amp - some have accurate imaging, some have a big soundstage, but you really need both of those working _together _in harmony to be highly convincing in a top level system. V281 does it very well indeed, among the best I've heard.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for a great review project86.  One question if you don't mind : what attributes would you say the v281 has over the v200 ?


----------



## project86

nomax said:


> I was Hearing the cavalli liguid Gold(much much higher price)was owner in the past luxman p700u But THIS is ONE of BEST AMPS in the World today beside my PHONITOR 2!
> And THE V281 is a real MACHINE and drives my ABYSS very very well
> 
> BIG THANKS AGAIN TO FRIED!!
> ...


 
  
  
 I haven't heard the Liquid Gold yet but the V281 easily outperforms the older Liquid Fire, as well as the Liquid Glass (though I realize the Glass is not necessarily a direct competitor). 
  
 Glad you enjoy the V281 as much as I do.
  
  
  


zsolt said:


> Great review! What's your impressions about the 24/192 USB add-on?


 
  
  
 Thanks! I talked about the USB DAC a few pages ago in this thread, but to summarize - quite good for the price, certainly better than any dedicated $240 USB DAC I've ever heard. It's not the last word in resolution or extension when compared to my usual DACs (normally in the $1k or much higher range) but it's not offensive either. Tonal accuracy is good and it isn't all boxed in like a lot of budget DACs can be. I enjoy it quite a bit. Definitely good enough to start enjoying the amp while saving up for a top tier DAC. 
  
  
  


bobg55 said:


> Thanks for a great review project86.  One question if you don't mind : what attributes would you say the v281 has over the v200 ?


 
  
  
 The biggest step up is soundstage. Even with single-ended headphones, I notice a slight increase, but balanced mode is significantly more spacious. And then the top end seems more articulate while still keeping that killer Violectric house sound. 
  
 I'll have a full review up at InnerFidelity eventually, and I'll explore all this in more detail.


----------



## Shini44

i guess it will be my amp for 2015 >=)


----------



## Zkadoush

project86 said:


> Sorry everyone - I've been trying to wrap up some other reviews which have taken far too much of my time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks a bunch for those preliminary impressions, project86, I'm looking forward to the full review at Innerfidelity. I hope you'll be able to draw clear lines and comparisons between the V281, the Taurus and the CMA800R, and share some of your thoughts and pics of what the Violectric sports under the hood (this aspect of your reviews is one I have been missing over at Innerfidelity). I also hope that Tyll will finally yield and give Violectric Amps the credit they deserve this time, and put the V281 on the test bench (and hopefully in his Wall of Fame).

Thanks again for sharing.

Cheers


----------



## Nhubley

Wow this looks great I want one!


----------



## achristilaw

Nicely built, exquisite to look at and to soft and warm to listen to.


----------



## Armaegis

I don't remember if it was mentioned anywhere, but is there any planned update to the V800 dac?


----------



## Amorgan

armaegis said:


> I don't remember if it was mentioned anywhere, but is there any planned update to the V800 dac?


 
  
 That will be really interesting if they ever do that. Been looking for my next upgrade and Vioelectric makes nice gear.


----------



## Fegefeuer

armaegis said:


> I don't remember if it was mentioned anywhere, but is there any planned update to the V800 dac?


 
  
 Yes.


----------



## Tony1110

Would a balanced DAC be necessary to get the best out of this?


----------



## roskodan

nope


----------



## PleasantSounds

Every DAC will show it's own character, but the differences are very subtle. I have tried 3 different DACs, two of them single ended, and would be happy with any of them.


----------



## navigavi

Does anybody know what's the best place to order the v281? On the Violectric website (http://www.lake-people.de) I suppose?
  
 I'm from the netherlands and I'm wondering what the delivery time is for a HPA V281 with these properties:
  

*Remote Control:* No Remote Control
*Digital Input Option:* No Digital Input
*Feet Color:* Silver
*Front Color:* Front Black


----------



## roskodan

i ordered from http://www.audition6.de/kontakt.htm (by email) in the past, great service, usually have demo stuff too, get a quote, than bargain a little, that's what i usually do, there are discounts for buying more stuff too, perhaps drop violectric an email too, they may have other retailers too, tho didn't see a list on their site


----------



## thomascrown

Does the v281 works with both 110/220v or it needs some soldering work as the v200? 
  
 Thanks


----------



## roskodan

has a switch inside to set the voltage, no soldering required


----------



## macdevign

project86 said:


> Sorry everyone - I've been trying to wrap up some other reviews which have taken far too much of my time.
> 
> Now, about that V281..... It's breathtaking. Extremely smooth but still has great extension and clarity on the top end. Very organic, or what some might call "analog", without being obviously colored. Soundstage, especially with the balanced out, is impressively wide. But more importantly it has the corresponding image accuracy to make that wide/deep soundstage seem very convincing. This is the mark of a truly great amp - some have accurate imaging, some have a big soundstage, but you really need both of those working _together _in harmony to be highly convincing in a top level system. V281 does it very well indeed, among the best I've heard.
> 
> ...


 
  
*project86,*
 How is the sonic characteristic of  this amp compare to the svetlana 2 amplifier that you once have ? Is it better or just different sound signature ?


----------



## macdevign

roskodan said:


> it's the same TE8802L chip that came by default with the burson conductor
> 
> it needs the driver from violectric to be installed properly to work properly
> 
> http://violectric-usa.com/downloads


 
 I wonder why they are still using TE8802 chip especially it requires driver to be installed on the mac. At least burson conductor is upgradeable through c-media board that is driverless in mac. Is violectric v281 upgradeable  ?


----------



## roskodan

perhaps it's downgrade-able, with the 24bit/96kHz module that preceded the TE8802
  
 than there's the option to get the coax/spdif module and eventually use an usb converter if one does not have a coax/spdif output on the pc/mac


----------



## thomascrown

roskodan said:


> has a switch inside to set the voltage, no soldering required


 
 sweet


----------



## project86

tony1110 said:


> Would a balanced DAC be necessary to get the best out of this?


 
  
  
 Not necessarily. The amp will accept balanced or unbalanced signals and can output balanced or unbalanced signal either way - that is, it will generate balanced from unbalanced and vice versa if need be. 
  
 It really comes down to your DAC and which output sounds better (assuming it has both). Some single-ended DACs are excellent. 
  
  


navigavi said:


> Does anybody know what's the best place to order the v281? On the Violectric website (http://www.lake-people.de) I suppose?
> 
> I'm from the netherlands and I'm wondering what the delivery time is for a HPA V281 with these properties:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I'd email Fried Reim and see what he recommends. He's usually prompt with his replies. 
  
  


macdevign said:


> *project86,*
> How is the sonic characteristic of  this amp compare to the svetlana 2 amplifier that you once have ? Is it better or just different sound signature ?


 
  
  
 Good question. Svetlana 2 has more of a delicate touch, very pure and nuanced. Pretty much the classic SET sound signature. The V281 is significantly more powerful in both specs and in tonal character - more bass slam, more thickness of note, just all around more body.
  
 I'd probably go for the Svetlana when listening to solo piano, a capella, singer/songwriter type stuff, while I'd rather have the V281 on more complex material, or music that demands more gusto. V281 is also better at working with pretty much every headphone out there - Svetlana is good with high impedance cans and easy dynamics like Audio Technica, but doesn't have anywhere near the power levels for something like HE-6. 
  
  


macdevign said:


> I wonder why they are still using TE8802 chip especially it requires driver to be installed on the mac. At least burson conductor is upgradeable through c-media board that is driverless in mac. Is violectric v281 upgradeable  ?


 
  
  
 This USB solution with the Tenor chip _is_ the upgrade, compared to the earlier version which used the prior Tenor model (adaptive). I've had good results from the V281 DAC so far, and it seems a lot more stable in this particular design. Still, I did try to sell Fried on going XMOS (as one example) and he seemed to agree.... but that would pertain to some future design down the road.


----------



## PleasantSounds

For a few days now I have been listening to HD800  using a self made high impedance adaptor, which is simply a couple of 27 Ohm resistors soldered into the XLR connector. The result is a little bit richer, fuller, more natural sounding bass. It's still well controlled, but not overdamped any more. As far as I can tell, there's no side effects introduced by this change. 
  
 My HD800 never sounded this good before!


----------



## Llloyd

Oh jesus I wish i hadn't seen this.... I always wanted a v200 and now this really puts me in a pickle.


----------



## Jodet

llloyd said:


> Oh jesus I wish i hadn't seen this.... I always wanted a v200 and now this really puts me in a pickle.


 
  
 I'll sell you my V200.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 I plan on buying a V220, but I always like to wait until something has been in production for at least six months.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm listening to my V281 right now. I sold my V100 for the V200 and now I'm afraid I'll have to do the same with the V200...
 Lovin' it.


----------



## project86

ultrainferno said:


> I'm listening to my V281 right now. I sold my V100 for the V200 and now I'm afraid I'll have to do the same with the V200...
> Lovin' it.


 
  
 Nice! Climbing the Violectric ladder all the way to the top.....


----------



## Ultrainferno

I doubt I'll go for his next reference rig he told me about though. $$$$$


----------



## project86

ultrainferno said:


> I doubt I'll go for his next reference rig he told me about though. $$$$$


 
  
  
 The V284 concept he's had floating around in his head for a while?


----------



## Fegefeuer

project86 said:


> The V284 concept he's had floating around in his head for a while?


 
  
 yes


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Hi all. 

I just ploughed through this whole thread, - thank you all for your contributions - and it very much helped me narrowing down my choices to the following two headamps:
- Auralic Taurus mkii
- Violectric V281
It's a very tough choice :s I don't have a possibility to listen to both at this moment, so I'm down to your advice really. Main HP = HD800, but an LCD-3 might be added to that as I was so stupid to give it a listen and can't stop wanting it now to complement the Senn. 

Project86, forgive me my impatience, but any new or established impressions regarding how both amps stack up to each other would really help me. You can always send a pm if you're not confident enough yet to spill the beans out loud in this thread. Thank you!!

Stijn


----------



## Viper2005

I ordered my silver V281 from Arthur (Violectric USA) and its on its way to me


----------



## Armaegis

project86 said:


> The V284 concept he's had floating around in his head for a while?


 
  
 And what -pray tell- is this?


----------



## project86

coldassault said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I just ploughed through this whole thread, - thank you all for your contributions - and it very much helped me narrowing down my choices to the following two headamps:
> - Auralic Taurus mkii
> ...


 
  
  
 I'll preface this by saying they are both EXCELLENT amps. Nothing either of them does slightly better is enough to invalidate the other as an excellent choice, and honestly I don't think you can go wrong either way. I hate it when reviewers and forum folks rave about some product, only to negate those impressions in the near future by finding something better..... and then do the same thing over and over each time. A good amp is a good amp even years later when something supersedes it.
  
 That said, I think the V281 is my favorite amp at the moment. There are a few small things which seal the deal for me:
  
 *The inky black background combined with plentiful volume control for sensitive headphones/CIEMs. Taurus is nearly as quiet but has a lot of gain, making it difficult to use with my CIEMs as the range from quiet to LOUD is rather small.
  
 *The spacious presentation. It's slightly bigger than Taurus.
  
 *The wonderfully analog sounding top end. It's a little smoother than the Auralic amp, not rolled off in the least but very controlled, very clean and well done. 
  
 *The remote control. I use it as a preamp in my speaker rig, and it works quite well. Auralic gives specific warnings not to keep everything all connected at once, which I've never quite understood from a design perspective. V281 is happy to have every plug in use at all times and switch back and forth with the remote (which Taurus mkII doesn't have).
  
 Now, there _are _times when the Taurus may still remain champion for me. Specifically when I want to bring out more details and high frequency shimmer. I love the V281 treble presentation but with some DACs, headphones, and music, the Taurus is a better match. Again, it's still a brilliant amp and I'd be happy to live with it if V281 was not an option. So you make the call.
  
  


viper2005 said:


> I ordered my silver V281 from Arthur (Violectric USA) and its on its way to me


 
  
  
 Congrats! Let us know what you think.


----------



## shultzee

viper2005 said:


> I ordered my silver V281 from Arthur (Violectric USA) and its on its way to me


 

 Just ordered a black one from Arthur as well.  Lo and behold it was the same Arthur I got my x -sabre from.    Good guy to deal with.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

project86 said:


> I'll preface this by saying they are both EXCELLENT amps. Nothing either of them does slightly better is enough to invalidate the other as an excellent choice, and honestly I don't think you can go wrong either way. I hate it when reviewers and forum folks rave about some product, only to negate those impressions in the near future by finding something better..... and then do the same thing over and over each time. A good amp is a good amp even years later when something supersedes it.
> 
> That said, I think the V281 is my favorite amp at the moment. There are a few small things which seal the deal for me:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Project86 for the quick and clear answer! Much appreciated


----------



## TMY168

Hello all,

Wow! It took me a while to go through all the posts in this thread! Thanks for all the contributors.
I have a quick question... I haven't seen any comparison with Bryston BHA-1. How does V281 cpmpare with BHA-1?

Now I'm seriously consider the V281. You guys were talking about the Violectric "House Sound"... What's that like?

I'm currently using BHA-1 with HE-560 and Nordost Heimdall 2 headphone cable in a balanced mode from my sources (Lindemann Music Book 25 with RCA and Ayre DX5 DSD with Mac Book Pro & Amarra Symphony 3.0 with XLR.) I also own AKG-K702 65th Anniversary with Stephan AudioArt Endorphine, driven by Burson Soloist.

Any comment would greatly appreciated 

Warm regards,
Tommy
Bangkok, Thailand.


----------



## project86

I have only limited experience with the Bryston amp. I thought it was pretty good, but not amazing. Worth the price for sure but not up there with my favorite amps. But perhaps someone else can go in to specifics.


----------



## Frank I

The Violectric house sound  is a warmer sound more of like what you would hear with a tube amplifier.The black background and the fact that it also balanced  ranks up there with some of the best solid state amps in general. There are more expensive amps and favorite of mine is The Cavalli Liquid Gold which at 4200.00 is pricer. The Cavalli excels with low impedance planars while the V281 is good with any headphone and does really well with the  Hd800.  The advantage of the V281 for many it will work well with any headphone out there. The V281 is outstanding with detail as well as extension in the treble and also in bass extension. I could easily live with this amplifier as a solid state reference amp.


----------



## xaval

armaegis said:


> I don't remember if it was mentioned anywhere, but is there any planned update to the V800 dac?


 
 I think I read somewhere about 2 DACs: one lighter but somewhat updated v800 and a "bigger" than v800 model. Is this correct?
  
 Am I also correct assuming that both v220 and v281 are more geared to customers who just need an amp to rule all dynamics? From what I've read, and understood, the lower v200, v100 and v181 would provide almost the same performance if you're running with "simpler" dynamics like Senns, Beyers, AKGs... I'm writing this as I don't see any Hifimans (well, maybe 560...), Audezes, K1000 or Abyss type of cans on my head and that those 3 amps would do the trick just fine. 
  
 I also must say that I find the DAC boards appealing as a concept despite the fact that the performance appears to be not quite on par with the amps.


----------



## TMY168

Thank you very much project86 & Frank I for the info. I think I'll go ahead with V281 with Silver faceplate & black feet.


----------



## Nomax

THE V281 is beside my PHONITOR 2 the best sounding AMP in THIS PRICE CATEGORY

NOMAX


----------



## roskodan

XD you really have all those headphones, listed under your profile, under the same roof !?!
  
 did you try any tube amp? did you consider buying anything else before the v281, or now after you bought it... ?
  
 also did you try the v200 before the v281 came out?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yes, he does. He's kind of crazy but in a good way. Very dedicated to headphones.
  
 Fortunately not as crazy as that other Austrian that came here quite a while ago.


----------



## roskodan

here like on head-fi.org? crazy like a lot of gear?
  
 well i'm in Zagreb, if you guys having, going to a meet, drop me a pm XD


----------



## Fegefeuer

You can come to the next Munich High End Show if you want. I'll be there. Then we can bug Mr.Fried


----------



## roskodan

armaegis said:


> project86 said:
> 
> 
> > The V284 concept he's had floating around in his head for a while?
> ...


 

 they are preparing the masses (and the respective wallets XD) for the next big upgrade release july 3014


----------



## roskodan

fegefeuer said:


> You can come to the next Munich High End Show if you want. I'll be there. *Then we can bug Mr.Fried *


 
  
 yeah, guess he will have to flee farther away than turkey next time XD


----------



## Nomax

My english is to Bad,sorry but i can say to erveryone V281 Sounds Amazing with all my HEADHONES(biggest COLLECTION in EUROPE,the cheap HP'S are not in my Profile)

And the V281 is worth the Money!why Should i spend more in cavalli or woo audio?

THE V281 is best deal for the first Time in a Long while

And Here a Photo with the Genius Fried 






REGARDS NOMAX

And Here my full COLLECTION http://www.open-end-music.de/vb3/showpost.php?p=167140&postcount=947


----------



## Ultrainferno

nomax said:


> biggest COLLECTION in EUROPE,the cheap HP'S are not in my Profile


 
   
 

 I'm pretty sure there are equally large or bigger collections in Europe but people just don't show. That being said, I think you shouldn't be showing it off like that but to each his own of course, no bad feeling. There are so many people on Headfi who don't even have the money to buy a 300$ headphone. Why rub it in? But again, that's my personal opinion, if you're happy, you're happy 
  
 Ok, my rant of the day is over. Back to business.


----------



## plakat

nomax said:


> And Here a Photo with the Genius Fried


 
  
 I was there when you picked up your V281... and, after trying it out and talking to Fried I decided to get one as well.
  
 Did anyone get the stepped attenuator so far? Very tempting as I like the implementation of that concept in the Meier Audio Classic.


----------



## plakat

fegefeuer said:


> Yes, he does. He's kind of crazy but in a good way. Very dedicated to headphones.
> 
> Fortunately not as crazy as that other Austrian that came here quite a while ago.


 
  
 A crazy guy from Austria? In Austria we believe he was from Germany (and Beethoven was Austrian of course


----------



## Savant

Beethoven, an Austrian? Since when? Born in Bonn and of Netherlander (Dutch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) descent....


----------



## Frank I

plakat said:


> I was there when you picked up your V281... and, after trying it out and talking to Fried I decided to get one as well.
> 
> Did anyone get the stepped attenuator so far? Very tempting as I like the implementation of that concept in the Meier Audio Classic.


 
 Great shot Nomax and sorry Freid won't be at the CanJam this year was looking forward to meeting him in person. The V281  going through the paces in my listening room and will enjoy writing this review.


----------



## gradofans

Looks great , but maybe it will be too expensive for me .


----------



## project86

gradofans said:


> Looks great , but maybe it will be too expensive for me .


 
  
  
 Their V200 is still an excellent amp for a lower price ($999). There's also the V100 at $759 and the G109 (using the Lake People brand name, still the same company) starting at $615 for the single ended version. These will all have a portion of the Violectric house sound, and all should be very enjoyable. Even the basic Lake People G103 at $339 is still a great sounding little amp.


----------



## Ultrainferno

The V281 is selling for 1300 + VAT in EU, that makes it around 1600€ total. To me the higher price (over the V200) is fully justified


----------



## roskodan

considering it has double of everything of what the v200 had plus all the new features, the price is right (worth it? that's a more subjective matter)
  
 agree it's justified, especially by today standards, anyhow, 1600EUR is the MSRP, 'street' prices are another story 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, which apply to the other models too


----------



## lunz

Hi Guys,

Avid reader of the Head-fi community for 4 years already, I finally decided to step in and join the lost wallet train.

My poor lcd-2r2 (2012) has always been fed by an O2/ODAC combo. Now it's time to see its real potential.

V281 ordered and on the way, as well as a balanced cable. DAC will be the 24/192 USB additional card implemented in the V281 (I'll have to wait next year before any further purchase, due to hard negotiations with my wife  )

I'll post my impressions once I receive it.

Cheers


----------



## plakat

savant said:


> Beethoven, an Austrian? Since when? Born in Bonn and of Netherlander (Dutch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thats kind of an inside joke... Austrians tend to see the world as 'Adolf was German, Ludwig was Austrian'. And some even seem to believe that. Which is weird.
  


ultrainferno said:


> The V281 is selling for 1300 + VAT in EU, that makes it around 1600€ total. To me the higher price (over the V200) is fully justified


 
  
 Having seen the interior and talking to Fried about the electrical design I consider the price difference more than justified. The more important question is of course, whether one needs the V281... in many cases the V200 will be more than enough I'd say. The existence of the bigger brother does not make it sound less good.
  
 My personal decision is based more on a desire for a state-of-the-art piece of electronic design than on the actual need for its power. I do not even own any balanced headphones. Yet


----------



## Ultrainferno

Congrats! Let us know what you think of it.
 Watch out about saying that about the O2 though, the fanboys might not like it (I use it as a 9V battery charger)


----------



## madbull

Question: where can i find a cheap (or not too expensive) a 4-pin to dual 3-pin XLR adapter?
  
 At MoonAudio they cost around 130 bucks with Neutrix, and have to be 1.5 ft long (which i dont see why).
  
 Way to much for an adapter isnt it??


----------



## lunz

ultrainferno said:


> Watch out about saying that about the O2 though, the fanboys might not like it (I use it as a 9V battery charger)



 


Don't get me wrong, It did exactly what I was expecting it to do: a good job for the price, and it still was better than any gear that I owned 
I bought it in order to save for a better amp, and it helped me during two years. Now that little thingy will join me at work next to my laptop.

Now I'm just eager to receive its replacement


----------



## Poladise

lunz said:


> My poor lcd-2r2 (2012) has always been fed by an O2/ODAC combo.


 
  
 With my LCD2r2 the O2 has superior resolution compared to V200, hopefully not the case with the V281, but one thing I bet you'll notice going from O2 to a flagship Violectric is your songs actaully sound like MUSIC.


----------



## madbull

BTW, mine is soon to arrive!!!!!!!!!!!! just found out it today!!


----------



## Savant

plakat said:


> Thats kind of an inside joke... Austrians tend to see the world as 'Adolf was German, Ludwig was Austrian'. And some even seem to believe that. Which is weird.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Savant

madbull said:


> Question: where can i find a cheap (or not too expensive) a 4-pin to dual 3-pin XLR adapter?
> 
> At MoonAudio they cost around 130 bucks with Neutrix, and have to be 1.5 ft long (which i dont see why).
> 
> Way to much for an adapter isnt it??




Agreed. Way too expensive for what it is and way too long...


----------



## Savant

lunz said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Avid reader of the Head-fi community for 4 years already, I finally decided to step in and join the lost wallet train.
> 
> ...




Welcome to the Forum... From a junior member! Ha ha!


----------



## tuatara

madbull said:


> Question: where can i find a cheap (or not too expensive) a 4-pin to dual 3-pin XLR adapter?
> 
> At MoonAudio they cost around 130 bucks with Neutrix, and have to be 1.5 ft long (which i dont see why).
> 
> Way to much for an adapter isnt it??


 
http://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/4-pin-dual-3-pin-cable
 an option?


----------



## Savant

Certainly more reasonably priced... And sized.


----------



## drgajet

Everyone is comparing this to the v200. How about compared to the v181?

Jim


----------



## project86

drgajet said:


> Everyone is comparing this to the v200. How about compared to the v181?
> 
> Jim


 
  
  
 Good question. It's tricky because from what I've seen (and what Fried has told me) the V181 has not been very popular. V200 did quite well and I think most people went that direction rather than V181, for whatever reason. I enjoyed the V181 but when it came right down to it the V200 was a better sonic fit. 
  
 Unfortunately it's been several years since I heard V181 and thus difficult to compare.


----------



## shultzee

Just got my V281 today.  Need to spend some time with it but first impressions are its ridiculously good.    Need to wipe the smile off my face and get serious about some listening.


----------



## project86

No, the smile is fine.... Don't rush to be too serious.


----------



## drgajet

I have the v181 and I like it but is the only violectric product I have. Thinking I should have Waited for the v281. Maybe I will need to upgrade!

Jim


----------



## Xenophon

drgajet said:


> I have the v181 and I like it but is the only violectric product I have. Thinking I should have Waited for the v281. Maybe I will need to upgrade!
> 
> Jim


 

 'Need to upgrade' depends on what 'need' means of course.  If you're happy with your 181 and unless you're into headphones like some planars that require a lot of power, why let the marketing mammoth that's head-fi take over?  I like this site and the reviews, but hanging around fulltime and getting drawn in can be perilous to your financial health.  Relax, enjoy the music.


----------



## PleasantSounds

xenophon said:


> 'Need to upgrade' depends on what 'need' means of course.  If you're happy with your 181 and unless you're into headphones like some planars that require a lot of power, why let the marketing mammoth that's head-fi take over?  I like this site and the reviews, but hanging around fulltime and getting drawn in can be perilous to your financial health.  Relax, enjoy the music.


 
  
 My experience shows that even very efficient headphones can benefit from a balanced amp. It's not all about sheer power. The statement that only inefficient planars can benefit from a powerful balanced amp like V281 is as true as saying that only fat people need cars with lots of power.
  
 Whether you decide to upgrade or not is mostly a matter of glass half full/half empty point of view. For some their equipment is good enough, for others it's not perfect...


----------



## citraian

Any more impressions vs the Ragnarok, Taurus MKII or Master 9?


----------



## PleasantSounds

I had an opportunity to directly compare the V281 with BHA-1, Taurus mk2 and p700u, using HD800 balanced. In terms of sound quality I would rank them as follows:
  
 1. p700u: very refined and natural, clearly best sounding mids, spacious and precise imaging. 
 2. V281: only a notch behind the p700u. For those favoring the darkish Violectric house sound it might be at the top of this list
 3. Taurus mk2: still excellent, but less tolerant of imperfect recordings, with slight tendency to be bright and harsh
 4. BHA-1: clearly behind the other three, not as smooth and precise, but considering it's price probably the best value for money of this lot


----------



## Revogamer

Which dac was used with the comparison?


----------



## PleasantSounds

revogamer said:


> Which dac was used with the comparison?


 
  
 V800 has been used with all four.
  
 I also had the BHA-1 and V281 running balanced off Hilo with similar impressions.
 In fact I don't see any difference in the way V281 handles SE and balanced input, while BHA-1 has somewhat improved with balanced input.


----------



## Xenophon

pleasantsounds said:


> *My experience shows that even very efficient headphones can benefit from a balanced amp.* It's not all about sheer power. The statement that only inefficient planars can benefit from a powerful balanced amp like V281 is as true as saying that only *fat people need cars with lots of power.*
> 
> Whether you decide to upgrade or not is mostly a matter of glass half full/half empty point of view. For some their equipment is good enough, for others it's not perfect...


 
 You do know that the V181 that was talked about IS a balanced amp, right?
  
 The fat people/powerful cars analogy is interesting and in a sense it relates to upgrade-itis and the head-fi frenzy:  cars run on money and make you fat, bicycles run on fat and save you money.


----------



## Savant

xenophon said:


> You do know that the V181 that was talked about IS a balanced amp, right?
> 
> The fat people/powerful cars analogy is interesting and in a sense it relates to upgrade-itis and the head-fi frenzy:  cars run on money and make you fat, bicycles run on fat and save you money.



 Excellently put!


----------



## Byrnie

pleasantsounds said:


> I had an opportunity to directly compare the V281 with BHA-1, Taurus mk2 and p700u, using HD800 balanced. In terms of sound quality I would rank them as follows:
> 
> 1. p700u: very refined and natural, clearly best sounding mids, spacious and precise imaging.
> 2. V281: only a notch behind the p700u. For those favoring the darkish Violectric house sound it might be at the top of this list
> ...


 
 That's the first time I've heard the Taurus described as harsh but maybe it's the amp + dac combo or something.  I didn't find it harsh myself though but of course everyone's ears are different.  How was the detail retrieval between the v281 and the Taurus?


----------



## PleasantSounds

xenophon said:


> You do know that the V181 that was talked about IS a balanced amp, right?
> 
> The fat people/powerful cars analogy is interesting and in a sense it relates to upgrade-itis and the head-fi frenzy:  cars run on money and make you fat, bicycles run on fat and save you money.


 
  
 Yeah my bad - I forgot that V181 is balanced.
 As to the cars and bicycles I'm not so sure: my pushbike retails for more than many used cars and my 4WD actually keeps me fit more than the bike. Go figure...


----------



## PleasantSounds

byrnie said:


> That's the first time I've heard the Taurus described as harsh but maybe it's the amp + dac combo or something.  I didn't find it harsh myself though but of course everyone's ears are different.  How was the detail retrieval between the v281 and the Taurus?


 
  
 Harsh in comparison to the V281. The differences are really small and as I said I picked it up only on some less than perfect recordings.
  
 Detail retrieval was comparable.Taurus is a tiny wee bit more precise with microdetail (maybe that's what makes it "harsh"), while V281 has more slam and sounds more real to me.
  
 These two amps are really very close in overall performance and on technical merit either of them is an excellent choice. To my ears though the V281 sounded more natural.


----------



## roskodan

pleasantsounds said:


> byrnie said:
> 
> 
> > That's the first time I've heard the Taurus described as harsh but maybe it's the amp + dac combo or something.  I didn't find it harsh myself though but of course everyone's ears are different.  How was the detail retrieval between the v281 and the Taurus?
> ...


 

 i must intervene, my conscience would not let me sleep if i was not to repeat myself for the 1000th time about something here... XD
  
 try to put the V800 main ground jumper to GND instead of LIFT, it will extend the treble and make it more natural, liquid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 true story


----------



## roskodan

also it seems you can try the same with the v281
  


fdg said:


> @ roskodan
> 
> V220 / V281 are not DC coupled any more - too dangerous for the ears and the headphones as you may damage both accidentially with ease ...
> Ground-Lift jumpers for the balanced inputs / outputs are still inside, however partly uncomfortable to set as there may be another PCB on top.
> ...


----------



## Byrnie

pleasantsounds said:


> Harsh in comparison to the V281. The differences are really small and as I said I picked it up only on some less than perfect recordings.
> 
> Detail retrieval was comparable.Taurus is a tiny wee bit more precise with microdetail (maybe that's what makes it "harsh"), while V281 has more slam and sounds more real to me.
> 
> These two amps are really very close in overall performance and on technical merit either of them is an excellent choice. To my ears though the V281 sounded more natural.


 
 Awesome and thank you for expanding on that comparison!


----------



## thomascrown

Any comparison with the sennheiser line of amps? 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## roskodan

no comparison
  
 XD
  
 sry, just had to
  
 jokes aside did you know


ultrainferno said:


> Did you know the Violectric V100 was the Sennheiser's HD800 designer's fav amp to use it with?


----------



## thomascrown

Do you mean that there is no game because the new v281 it's so awesome that it pours gold music in your ears, while the senn it's just a mere volume knob, or you mean: "Meh...I don't know... I don't have them" 
  
 In both cases I appreciate your feedback


----------



## madbull

so I got mine and am already furious. Where's the f. driver to usb 24/192 on that dam site to download????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## madbull

they just tell u to go to violectric.de and find the damn driver but where ***?????????????????


----------



## macdevign

http://violectric-usa.com/downloads
  
 It is a universal driver for their product.


madbull said:


> so I got mine and am already furious. Where's the f. driver to usb 24/192 on that dam site to download????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## madbull

what the f.is worng with that site? I have aready tried to create two logins and and it doesn't accept neither. Where can I f. find these dam proprietary drivers for gods sake? Cant you lake people see how frustrating that is????????????


----------



## madbull

thanks for the info, the manual points to violectric.de and theres no download section there. What a waste of my time.


----------



## madbull

Ok Lake People I take back all I said, except you should adress better the issue with the manual not giving correct instructions to dowload your proprietary drivers.
  
  
 Because now I am listening HE-6 trough single ended output and my jaw LITERALLY dropped. Literally. I could be crying now.
  
 It's the best headphone sound I ever heard in my life in this hobby. I don't think even stats could do better than this.
  
 Thank you so much. Still to try balanced outputs.


----------



## madbull

If you wanna have an idea of what real music can sound, try this version of Wild Horses by Otis Clay from this album with HE-6 on V281:
  

  
 If you don't get sold instantly, then you are definietely deaf.


----------



## madbull

Seriously now people, this amp and HE-6 = End game setup.
  
 With the advantage of not having to deal with more than 2 cables (force and usb, in my case).
  
 Congrats to Lake People for such a piece of high end amp. BTW, this topic should belong to that section and not this.
  
 Mine is the "full version" with all upgrades. The remote control works like a charm on the 128 stepped atennuator.


----------



## Fegefeuer

lol, you really are a mad bull. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Please continue with impressions and reviews/comparisons with your other amps. I'm also interested in your headphone pairings. D7k, T1, HD 800.


----------



## Byrnie

Has anyone paired this amp with the TH900? If so how did it sound?


----------



## madbull

byrnie said:


> Has anyone paired this amp with the TH900? If so how did it sound?


 
  
 You are lucky to have have an answer soon. It's my next can to be "Violectricized".


----------



## Byrnie

madbull said:


> You are lucky to have have an answer soon. It's my next can to be "Violectricized".


 
 Ok cool!  I look forward to your impressions on it.


----------



## madbull

byrnie said:


> Ok cool!  I look forward to your impressions on it.


 

 Sorry buddy I just remembered I have a K1000 waiting for months  to this amp. Foxtex will have to wait a little...


----------



## Nomax

byrnie said:


> Has anyone paired this amp with the TH900? If so how did it sound?




It Sounds Amazing!the V281 sound GREAT with every headphone 

NOMAX


----------



## madbull

Demonstration of the remote control operating the volume pot. The little gasp it seems to get at the beginning is my finger's fault, as I was holding both the control and the cellphone. Hope you all enjoy it. It´s supposed to have 128 steps, but it really feels like there isnt any, its really really as smooth as a regular potentiometer.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Thanks for the video. Good job with the background music.
  
 So you're using it with balance all the way to the right?
 And did you know that the left side TRS socket outputs phase inverted signal? For SE the right one is the default.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## project86

I was going to ask those same questions but I figure you were just messing around with the features and don't normally listen with those settings. It's a nicely done video though, thanks for posting it. Looks like the USA site still doesn't show the level 2 volume option on the menu, but the home site does. I'm sure that will get fixed up soon enough.
  
 I'm listening to the V281 right now and have another observation to make. The balanced output is just a little too noisy for sensitive IEMs. I used it with Noble 4S, UM Merlin, and JH13 FreqPhase, and all had a bit more hiss than I'd like to hear. This is with pre-gain set at -6dB, and I really doubt dropping to -12dB will solve the issue. I think it has to do with the extra gain stage for balanced operation just being too much for IEMs. On the other hand, I've never heard a peep when using any full size headphones via XLR.
  
 The good news? I can confirm that the 1/4" jacks are perfectly silent with IEMs. I use the right jack to keep proper phase, and it's absolutely perfect. I suppose this means the exclusive IEM user can skip V281 and go straight for the V220 - save a few hundred dollars in the process. For me, I think V281 is worth the upcharge and using an HE-6 really confirms it. 
  
 Lastly, this thing makes a killer preamp. I threw it in the speaker rig driving a pair of Ghent Audio Class D monoblocks and Sjofn HiFi monitors and it sounded excellent - easily on par with some of my better dedicated preamps. The conversion from balanced to SE and vice versa comes in handy sometimes, and the remote makes it an actual preamp rather than a headphone amp just pretending. 
  
 Still a ways out from my final review but I can tell you right now - this thing is more and more impressive by the day. Currently listening to Zoe Keating's _Into the Trees_ and the textures are so damn palpable..... my LCD-3 is just dripping with realism. Which sounds gross..... but I'm loving it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I was comparing the balanced to the normal SE out earlier and the balanced is so much more dynamic, musical and balanced 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I've only been using my Audezes and Hifimans with it so far, and my fav is the LCD-XC.
  
 God this amp sounds great, I hope to get to using it as a preamp later this week if time permits. I haven't used the remote yet, have had no use for it till now.


----------



## madbull

pleasantsounds said:


> Thanks for the video. Good job with the background music.
> 
> So you're using it with balance all the way to the right?
> And did you know that the left side TRS socket outputs phase inverted signal? For SE the right one is the default.
> ...


 
 I was just messing around with knobs, outputs etc
  
 Listening to some serious music now still with HE-6: Book of Shadows, from Zakk Wylde. Wonderful.


----------



## lunz

A small question here, in case we would like to upgrade our v281 to the motorized pot level 2 in the future. Would it be possible?

PS: my V281 has now been shipped and is currently on its way, ETA Thursday morning. I think that I've never spend this much time on a forwarder's web tracking page


----------



## sveli

V281 or Phonitor 2? Pros and cons? About same price. Any experience with both?


----------



## madbull

People, when you have the chance you really should give a try on this heavenly combo, V281 e HE-6. Violectric should use this can to demonstrate its abilities. It's a shame I dont have a HD800 anymore, been seriously thinking to get me another just to see the results.
  
 This is definetely a hell of an amp.
  
 PS.: you dont even need to mess with gain settings to get an excellent sound at 60-70% of volume knob range for HE6.. 100% is for deaf people or those who wanna get deaf.
  
 PS 2.: Listening to the the cd that comes with Claptons Sessions for Robert Jonson DVD. Never heard that version of Kind Hearted Woman to sound this way. You feel like you are there.


----------



## mulder01

Can anyone tell me if the usb input card will take an input directly off an ipod? I think I read that it will work with windows and apple but not sure if that includes ipods.


----------



## Tony1110

Is the built in USB DAC module mediocre? I'm thinking of buying this amp but it'll completely blow my budget. Can't afford a good DAC on top of it.


----------



## xaval

tony1110 said:


> Is the built in USB DAC module mediocre? I'm thinking of buying this amp but it'll completely blow my budget. Can't afford a good DAC on top of it.


 
 I'd expect the module to be equivalent to a good DAC within that price range... but without a fancy case and PSU


----------



## madbull

tony1110 said:


> Is the built in USB DAC module mediocre? I'm thinking of buying this amp but it'll completely blow my budget. Can't afford a good DAC on top of it.


 
  
 I think it works very fine. Haven't exactly compared with my other dacs, but on the cd I mentioned above, I was able to hear things I haven't heard before on the track "Rambling on my mind", something that to my ears passes as an annoying background talk (maybe someone downstairs as it was recorded on a hotel?). That noise was already clear before on other systems I have listened, but now I can hear this talking (on a lower level) even in the midlle of the song, at some moments.
  
 Not to mention the other acoustic tracks, where it seems like the the recording team can't just shup up their mouths at the beginning of some songs. That's is something I pretty clearly heard.
  
 But maybe this is not just a dac thing, but the extreme analytic qualities of HE6. I can't really know by now.
  
 I have the 24/192 usb input.
  
 I bought this because I was tired of too much cable (an extra power cable for DAC, interconnection cables) and so I am pretty satisfied.
  
 By the way: to the guy who asked how is it with TH900. Another great match. As good, or even better, than my Phonitor, but I should make a direct comparison still, as Phonitor does wonders also with that can.


----------



## Nomax

sveli said:


> V281 or Phonitor 2? Pros and cons? About same price. Any experience with both?




PHONITOR 2 is GREAT but V281 is also GREAT FOR power hungry headphones 

Keep your eyes open NEW PHONITOR from SPL with build in DAC will come in the near TIME FUTURE

REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Project86, you wouldn't happen to have any experience with the Phonitor 2? I'm also quite curious how it stacks up to the Taurus MK II and the V281...
 Somebody else here who heard two, or preferably all three of 'em? Thanks!


----------



## xaval

madbull said:


> By the way: to the guy who asked how is it with TH900. Another great match. As good, or even better, than my Phonitor, but I should make a direct comparison still, as Phonitor does wonders also with that can.


 
 How about those T1? I'd appreciate your impressionsm, specially if they're unbalanced.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

So if this amp is going to be great with all of my headphones (LCD-X, HD-800 and TH-900) I guess I'm going to have to order one . . .


----------



## rnsto

john/projekt 86,
can you tell how the violectric Hpa V281 stacks on the yulong da8?


----------



## Viper2005

V281 in the house!! 
  

  
  
  
  
 Quote:


rnsto said:


> john/projekt 86,
> can you tell how the violectric Hpa V281 stacks on the yulong da8?


 
  
 Initial impression is that the DA8 / V281 combo is great with both the LCD X and HD800!


----------



## rnsto

Wow Viper thats a nice set up you got there


----------



## madbull

xaval said:


> How about those T1? I'd appreciate your impressionsm, specially if they're unbalanced.


 
  
 I don't have T1s anymore  neither HD800s.
  
 My profile needs to be updated.


----------



## madbull

viper2005 said:


> Initial impression is that the DA8 / V281 combo is great with both the LCD X and HD800!


 

 That's really a nice setup your have there man. Can you specify all its components? I don't know all these dacs/amps/whatever. But they look wonderful together. Enjoy you V281.


----------



## Viper2005

madbull said:


> That's really a nice setup your have there man. Can you specify all its components? I don't know all these dacs/amps/whatever. But they look wonderful together. Enjoy you V281.


 
 Thank you  
  
 The components are
 Left side:  Yulong A28 amp, DA8 DAC, P18 Power Conditioner
 Right side: Violectric V200, V281


----------



## lunz

My V281 is expected to arrive this afternoon !!! Just can't wait.
  
 And I have to say, it took only one week between the order and the reception of the good in South East Asia, I wasn't expecting a delivery this fast !


----------



## Zkadoush

viper2005 said:


> Thank you
> 
> The components are
> Left side:  Yulong A28 amp, DA8 DAC, P18 Power Conditioner
> Right side: Violectric V200, V281



 


Hi Viper2005,

I have a pair of HD 800s and I'm getting a pair of LCD-Xs at the end of November. I'm also quite interested in the V281. I was initially going to upgrade my V100 to a V200, when I found out the V281 was in the works, and of course everything points towards the V281 being Violectric's top Amp. 

Nevertheless, the LCD-Xs are far from needing a power beast like the V281, let alone a V200. The HD 800s should neither need more power than the V200 has on tap. 

Aside from the amazing power the V281 can deliver (for cans that really need it, like the HE-6 or the K1000), the rest of the specs appear to be relatively similar, but giving the V200 the upper hand in THD+N, Noise, and especially when it comes to Crosstalk and Damping factor. (The V200 does of course not have a balanced output like the V281.) With that in mind, and seeing that you have both the V200 and the V281, which are the substantial advantages that you would have in mind when considering the V281 over the V200, specifically for the HD 800s and the LCD-Xs?

Cheers!


----------



## Viper2005

zkadoush said:


> Hi Viper2005,
> 
> I have a pair of HD 800s and I'm getting a pair of LCD-Xs at the end of November. I'm also quite interested in the V281. I was initially going to upgrade my V100 to a V200, when I found out the V281 was in the works, and of course everything points towards the V281 being Violectric's top Amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 281 does have its own character that is a bit different from the v200.  I would not say that the 281 is merely a v200 with more power.
 I find the v281 has a bit more treble energy up top, compared to the v200.  I always felt that the v200 had a tiny bit of treble rolloff at the top but it does not feel that way with the 281. 
 I also find (perhaps as a result of the extra treble energy) that the soundstage is improved with the 281, at least in balanced mode.  Both my HD800 and LCDx are using balanced cables.
 You can also never have enough power  ^^


----------



## Zkadoush

viper2005 said:


> The 281 does have its own character that is a bit different from the v200.  I would not say that the 281 is merely a v200 with more power.
> I find the v281 has a bit more treble energy up top, compared to the v200.  I always felt that the v200 had a tiny bit of treble rolloff at the top but it does not feel that way with the 281.
> I also find (perhaps as a result of the extra treble energy) that the soundstage is improved with the 281, at least in balanced mode.  Both my HD800 and LCDx are using balanced cables.
> You can also never have enough power  ^^



 


Thanks for your honest and above all sober impressions, Viper 2005.

Kind of makes you wish the V281 had justy two balanced outputs. If the balanced will always be an upgrade to the unbalanced outputs, why bother with them. I also believe two balanced outputs would also justify the higher cost of the V281 much better.

Cheers!


----------



## roskodan

zkadoush said:


> viper2005 said:
> 
> 
> > The 281 does have its own character that is a bit different from the v200.  I would not say that the 281 is merely a v200 with more power.
> ...


 

 there are 2 x single ended outputs because there are 2 x v220 single ended amps inside a balanced v281 amp
  
 there are not 2 x balanced v281 amps inside
  
 therefore having 2 x 4 pin xlr balanced output would be just like having a splitter on the one existing xlr out the v281 already has
  
 so just get a 4 pin xlr to 2 x 4pin xlr splitter to drive 2 headphones in parallel and problem solved 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ... or 3 or 4 or 10 if you wish
  
 EDIT: the two single ended outputs on the v200 are also just a splitter that connects two headphones in parallel, made for convenience, guess there was no space for two balanced 4 pin xlr connectors on the new amp


----------



## BALANCEATOR

This is really good this amp sound. Especially balanced. Also it is very powerful and warm.


----------



## plakat

roskodan said:


> there are 2 x single ended outputs because there are 2 x v220 single ended amps inside a balanced v281 amp
> 
> there are not 2 x balanced v281 amps inside
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, I think your first statement was correct: as I interpret the block diagram in the users manual one unbalanced output is inverted, driven by the 'other' V220. I was wondering why one of them was inverted... but its quite obvious in hindsight.


----------



## xaval

I'm toying with the idea of getting a V220, but if what you get from the V281 vs V200 is not that much more I find it hard to justify the investment unless you'd own some of the critically hard to drive headphones where the V281/V220 seem to really shine. I need more feedback


----------



## roskodan

both of my statements are right, if you read better, hehe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


xaval said:


> I'm toying with the idea of getting a V220, but if what you get from the V281 vs V200 is not that much more I find it hard to justify the investment unless you'd own some of the critically hard to drive headphones where the V281/V220 seem to really shine. I need more feedback


 
 have money? get v282
 no money but need input/output flexibility? get v220
 no money, and no real need for anything more than a v200? get a G109


----------



## xaval

roskodan said:


> both of my statements are right, if you read better, hehe
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 New secret model? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have no balanced cans and huge recable task ahead... definetely not going to happen! So no V281 for me.
  
 Now I wasn't expecting your view as making a G109 similar to V200 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Is it your personal experience?
  
 I think I read something from Fried stating that the G100 was not on par in sound quality vs V100. I think G109 replaced G100.
 From viewing online pics of internals they sure are different and G109 has cheaper parts and less powerful specs, except under 600ohm. Case on G109 is also much cheaper looking,
  
 I made this smal cheat sheet table of Violectric powers for reference. All Measurements RMS unwtd., 20 Hz - 20 kHz, Pre-Gain set to 0 dB (as stated by Lake People).
  

*G109*
 600 ohms = 590 mW
 100 ohms = 1900 mW
 50 ohms = 2300 mW
 32 ohms = 1900 mW
 16 ohms = 410 mW*V100*
 600 ohms = 640 mW
 100 ohms = 2100 mW
 50 ohms = 2200 mW
 32 ohms = 1700 mW
 16 ohms = 780 mW*V200*
 600 ohms = 570 mW
 100 ohms = 2200 mW
 50 ohms = 2700 mW
 32 ohms = 2000 mW
 16 ohms = 1000 mW*V220*
 600 ohms = 670 mW
 100 ohms = 3050 mW
 50 ohms = 2700 mW
 32 ohms = 2800 mW
 16 ohms = 1500 mW*V281*
 600 ohms = 2700 mW
 100 ohms = 5600 mW
 50 ohms = 4200 mW
 32 ohms = 2800 mW
 16 ohms = 1500 mW
 Values for V281 are for balanced output (I think). What a freakish monster!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I think that's supposed to be 32Ohm, not twice 50 
  
 Nice overview. thanks!


----------



## xaval

ultrainferno said:


> I think that's supposed to be 32Ohm, not twice 50
> 
> Nice overview. thanks!


 
 Updated. Thanks


----------



## roskodan

did you check the chart fdg posted back in the thread *LINK*
  
 imo go for the new models, more options, and improved over the previous models
  
@xaval PMed


----------



## Stormfriend

Chalk me up as interested.  I can't get the violectric.de site to work properly though, as the 'links' in grey at the bottom don't appear to be links.  Does anyone know if Violectric offer a 30 day returns policy and what the rules are?  I could order from Thomann but they may not have the right combination of inputs/colours.
  
 I'm also wondering what the faceplate looks like if you don't select a digital input.  Does it leave a dummy button there that does nothing, does the button get reassigned to something else, or is there a revised faceplate that removes it?  I guess a follow on question from that is whether the digital inputs are modular and can be added later?
  
 If I did get a digital input where does it draw its power from and how well shielded is it from the analogue electronics?
  
 Not that I'm fussy or anything.   It's potentially a £2000 headphone amp when kitted out so I need to make an informed decision.


----------



## saxelrod92

stormfriend said:


> Chalk me up as interested.  I can't get the violectric.de site to work properly though, as the 'links' in grey at the bottom don't appear to be links.  Does anyone know if Violectric offer a 30 day returns policy and what the rules are?  I could order from Thomann but they may not have the right combination of inputs/colours.
> 
> I'm also wondering what the faceplate looks like if you don't select a digital input.  Does it leave a dummy button there that does nothing, does the button get reassigned to something else, or is there a revised faceplate that removes it?  I guess a follow on question from that is whether the digital inputs are modular and can be added later?
> 
> ...


 

 The faceplate is the same no matter what you get. all the buttons work, light up when pressed, relays click. Just if you dont have a dac inside the digital input button essentially just becomes a glorified mute button. all the lights, inputs, internals that need power but are not part of the amp sections, use the larger bottom transformer. theres two amp boards stacked on top of each other inside, the top one is just an amp and has a smaller transformer (still larger than the one in the V200), and the bottom board has a larger transformer so it can power all the other components inside as well as its amp board. The digital inputs are modular, there are 3 vertical rods that you would screw the digital input board onto, and then just connect the ribbon cable to the already existing slot.
  
 its definitely worth the money, it literally does anything you need it to do, and does it extremely well. theres no messing around, no issues with synergy, no problems with impedances, or different sensitivities. Totally black noise floor, lots of volume control, stays relatively cool-slightly warm, and super sturdy.


----------



## Stormfriend

saxelrod92 said:


> The faceplate is the same no matter what you get. all the buttons work, light up when pressed, relays click. Just if you dont have a dac inside the digital input button essentially just becomes a glorified mute button. all the lights, inputs, internals that need power but are not part of the amp sections, use the larger bottom transformer. theres two amp boards stacked on top of each other inside, the top one is just an amp and has a smaller transformer (still larger than the one in the V200), and the bottom board has a larger transformer so it can power all the other components inside as well as its amp board. The digital inputs are modular, there are 3 vertical rods that you would screw the digital input board onto, and then just connect the ribbon cable to the already existing slot.
> 
> its definitely worth the money, it literally does anything you need it to do, and does it extremely well. theres no messing around, no issues with synergy, no problems with impedances, or different sensitivities. Totally black noise floor, lots of volume control, stays relatively cool-slightly warm, and super sturdy.


 

 Thanks for the feedback, that's very helpful.  I'm still tempted to stick a DAC option in there to complete the buttons, but it would be a bit of a waste.  Do you know what the 24/192 DAC is comparable to (i.e. V800 - probably optimistic)?


----------



## Viper2005

stormfriend said:


> Thanks for the feedback, that's very helpful.  I'm still tempted to stick a DAC option in there to complete the buttons, but it would be a bit of a waste.  Do you know what the 24/192 DAC is comparable to (i.e. V800 - probably optimistic)?




I have the coax 24/192 dac in my 281, and while it's good, it's not as detailed as my Yulong DA8.


----------



## Tony1110

xaval said:


> New secret model?
> 
> I have no balanced cans and huge recable task ahead... definetely not going to happen! So no V281 for me.
> 
> ...




2700mW into 600 ohms. Is there anything else on the market that can do that?


----------



## saxelrod92

stormfriend said:


> Thanks for the feedback, that's very helpful.  I'm still tempted to stick a DAC option in there to complete the buttons, but it would be a bit of a waste.  Do you know what the 24/192 DAC is comparable to (i.e. V800 - probably optimistic)?


 

 Sorry I never used their dac sections before. I would look at what other people have said in this thread about them. Overall based on their impressions, the dacs seem good, but not better than a standalone dac priced more than the internal dac. I guess just look at it like its a roughly 200+ dollar single input dac without a chassis, and will perform at the top of that price range. thats what the general impressions of other people on here seem to be.


----------



## lunz

Hi guys,
  
 Quite of a beginner question here:
  
 I've been playing with the V281 yesterday and have some inquiries regarding the ASIO driver provided by Vio (for the 24/192 kHz USB DAC)
 In the Vio ASIO Control Panel (=CP), you have two options for the "Bits per sample" : either 16 bits or 24 bits.
  
 If my input is Flac 16 bits / 44.1 khz and the *bits per sample* in the CP is on 24 bits, does it mean that will the DAC will "upsample" it ?
 Again, if my input is 24/96 and the *bits per sample* in the CP is on 16 bits, will I lose anything in quality ?
  
 My main concern is to know if I have to fiddle with this option on each music quality change, or if I leave it on a certain setting and not touch it anymore.
  
 Thanks for your help


----------



## PleasantSounds

lunz said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Quite of a beginner question here:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Switching between 16 and 24 bit every time is just not practical. If you have both 16 and 24 bit files, set it permanently to 24 bit.
  
 In case of 16 to 24 bit conversion the driver will just add a 0 byte to each sample. This is very light in terms of CPU usage and totally harmless to the original signal.
  
 The reverse operation (24 to 16 bit) removes the least significant byte from each sample, and that is a potentially meaningful data being chopped off.


----------



## Zkadoush

roskodan said:


> there are 2 x single ended outputs because there are 2 x v220 single ended amps inside a balanced v281 amp
> 
> there are not 2 x balanced v281 amps inside
> 
> ...



 


I understand the splitter concept, but it's great that you clarified it. I think it's a perhaps more technical detail that escapes the average user. I also think that another custom feature Fried could offer, aside from the color of the front plate or the feet, is which output - balanced or unbalaced - you want 2 of (since having 2 balanced and 2 unbalanced outputs - like the Sennheiser HDVA 600 - has not been considered). With the already high cost of the V281, a balanced cable splitter hanging out of the Amp is not the most elegant scenario I would expect. 

Cheers!


----------



## PleasantSounds

zkadoush said:


> [..] another custom feature Fried could offer, aside from the color of the front plate or the feet, is which output - balanced or unbalaced - you want 2 of (since having 2 balanced and 2 unbalanced outputs - like the Sennheiser HDVA 600 - has not been considered). With the already high cost of the V281, a balanced cable splitter hanging out of the Amp is not the most elegant scenario I would expect.
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 I think you're getting hung up on a feature that would not be terribly useful. Most people would want to control the volume individually and for that you need separate amps.
 I can understand providing a 4-pin XLR and 2 x 3-pin XLR to ease connectivity, but having 2 x 4-pin XLR to me is just a marketing gimmick with no practical value.


----------



## Zkadoush

pleasantsounds said:


> I think you're getting hung up on a feature that would not be terribly useful. Most people would want to control the volume individually and for that you need separate amps.
> I can understand providing a 4-pin XLR and 2 x 3-pin XLR to ease connectivity, but having 2 x 4-pin XLR to me is just a marketing gimmick with no practical value.



 


If having 2 single ended outputs is OK, why wouldn't it be OK to have 2 balanced outputs? My understanding is that most people use single ended outputs, but for those that want to take advantage of the benefits of the balanced output of the V281 - which has consistently been said to be better than the single ended output -, it would certainly be a good optional feature to have 2. I listen a lot with some of my friends and with my wife and when watching movies, and it would of course be great to have 2 balanced outputs with the benefits it means for SQ.

I guess most head-fiers don't sit with a friend and listen to often, but I know I do, and at least I would benefit from it. Also, if the balanced output is so obviously better than the single ended, I'll most likely prefer the balanced output over the single ended when listening alone anyway. If there's no technical hassle beyond having 2 different front plates to accomodate this option, I really see no cons, and to me at least, it makes perfect sense. I would also pay an extra fee if that would be necessary.

Cheers!


----------



## Revogamer

I think the main issue is to have the balanced out requires the use of both amplifiers - splitting that signal would cut the power in half i would think as it would have to double the load?
  
 That would in the end make it the same as having single ended outs again..
  
 Plus unfortunately both will be at the same volume so you would need to have two of the same headphone to be able to take use of it without being too loud for someone else.

 I stand to be corrected though..


----------



## plakat

While I can't remember to ever having shared an amp with another person I do find dual output a nice thing to have as I often compare headphones...


----------



## PleasantSounds

zkadoush said:


> If having 2 single ended outputs is OK, why wouldn't it be OK to have 2 balanced outputs? My understanding is that most people use single ended outputs, but for those that want to take advantage of the benefits of the balanced output of the V281 - which has consistently been said to be better than the single ended output -, it would certainly be a good optional feature to have 2. I listen a lot with some of my friends and with my wife and when watching movies, and it would of course be great to have 2 balanced outputs with the benefits it means for SQ.
> 
> I guess most head-fiers don't sit with a friend and listen to often, but I know I do, and at least I would benefit from it. Also, if the balanced output is so obviously better than the single ended, I'll most likely prefer the balanced output over the single ended when listening alone anyway. If there's no technical hassle beyond having 2 different front plates to accomodate this option, I really see no cons, and to me at least, it makes perfect sense. I would also pay an extra fee if that would be necessary.
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 These two single ended outputs make more sense for the following reasons:
 - each one has it's own amp
 - they are not identical: one is in-phase, the other reversed
  
 And I wouldn't think many people buy a balanced amp to listen single ended. 
  
 Regarding having an internal Y-splitter and two sockets.... I'm not sure that would go well with the Violectric's design principles. As far as I can tell, their ambition is to be on the cutting edge of technology and their designs to be considered as an art, while this idea technically is... well... less than ideal. I think the risk of having a $2000 amp criticised for containing dodgy engineering outweighs the benefits from additional sales, if any.


----------



## roskodan

actually the load when driving two identical cans over a Y splitter, aka in parallel connection, halves, *1/Rtotal = 1/Rhp1 + 1/Rhp2 ... + 1/Rhpn*
  
 the v200 has an integrated Y splitter, the two 1/4 TRS outputs, and i'm afraid there is more power per hp when connecting 2 x 600ohm hp, than when having only 1 x 600ohm hp connected


----------



## PleasantSounds

It's not only about the power.
 Think what happens when you listen to one headphone and the second one is being plugged in.


----------



## Byrnie

revogamer said:


> I think
> Plus unfortunately both will be at the same volume so you would need to have two of the same headphone to be able to take use of it without being too loud for someone else.



They wouldn't need to be the same headphone but instead have similar impedances (i.e., HD-650 and the HD-600)


----------



## roskodan

also need to take in account efficiency
  
 Quote:


pleasantsounds said:


> It's not only about the power.
> Think what happens when you listen to one headphone and the second one is being plugged in.


 
 depends what headphones are being plugged in, what did you have in mind?


----------



## Byrnie

roskodan said:


> also need to take in account efficiency



True but to a much lesser extent in my experience (unless you own an HE-6).


----------



## PleasantSounds

roskodan said:


> depends what headphones are being plugged in, what did you have in mind?


 
  
 When you plug in the 2nd HP the overall impedance of the output will significantly change, causing changes in volume and possibly even FR characteristic. Another possible concern is that the back current generated by one headphone will now flow through the other, however that would be an issue only with low impedance cans.
  
 Although these effects are usually small, they would not be seen favorably in a product with flagship status of a reputable company.


----------



## roskodan

reading that it looks like it would be doomsday connecting two hp on a v200, or having an integrated Y split double output or Y extension cable on the new amps, while i'm sure the v200 and the new ones, would performs at it's best with 2 hp connected without any side effect, also having a Y split double output, like the v200 has, without disclaimers, is more of a prestige than something bad, if thinking of hifi stereo amps, usually will state specs for as low as 1 ohm loads, and have dual Y split outputs for biwiring or multiple pair of speakers, so not having such feature may have more to do with 'audiophile' marketing status than being any meaningful sign of reputation/prestige


----------



## PleasantSounds

Arguing over this is pointless. The V281 is what it is and I doubt we're gonna see a revision soon that includes second balanced output. That wouldn't make it any better for 99.9% of the users.
 I tried to explain why one would not include it in a flagship product based on technical merit, but I wouldn't be surprised if the idea hasn't even crossed the designers' minds. Majority of headphone amplifiers have a purpose of powering a single headphone, maybe with exception of studio gear which V281 is not. If you're so fixated on having two balanced outputs then look somewhere else.


----------



## mulder01

Jeez this is crazy.  I mean, from what I've read the balanced output has a better soundstage and a few small differences that an audiophile would notice in music they listen to regularly, but for watching a movie with your friend on a high end amp like this and high end headphones, I seriously doubt your friend would appreciate the difference between the balanced and single ended outputs in this particular case...  But, if you want 2 balanced outputs, buy a different amp.  Easy.


----------



## shultzee

The v281 has an incredible, crisp, and detailed soundstage running balanced.  This much I know.


----------



## madbull

Running K1000 now. This is the BEST I have heard from this amazing "speaker-phone" (or whatever they call it).
  
 Still have to hear HD800's but I don't have them anymore. Probably gonna sound great too, so I guess these are the dynamic cans I will keep for life (HE-6, TH900, K1000 and HD800). I hope this list doesn't get bigger than that (oops, I just remembered LCD-3... and XC) There goes all my money.


----------



## alvinmate

Hi Guys,
  
 I have placed the order for the V281 and considering getting the aftermarket power cable. I have a budget of around $300-$500. Those who already own this amp or have significant experience with cables can you please give me your recommendations and does it make any difference with the upgrade?
  
  
 Thanks


----------



## roskodan

well i tried a Wireworld Silver Electra and Stratus on my v200 and v800 in a session and found it to sound colder with less depth, some sharpness to details perhaps, against the stock tagan pc psu cable i usually use,

  
 and still use, since i didn't hear nor generally believe there is any improvement that couldn't also be seen as a degradation, it's a matter of taste, i like the stock cable that came with my tagan pc psu better


----------



## Viper2005

roskodan said:


> well i tried a Wireworld Silver Electra and Stratus on my v200 and v800 in a session and found it to sound colder with less depth, some sharpness to details perhaps, against the stock tagan pc psu cable i usually use,
> 
> 
> and still use, since i didn't hear nor generally believe there is any improvement that couldn't also be seen as a degradation, it's a matter of taste, i like the stock cable that came with my tagan pc psu better


 
 are you serious?   <insert face palm emote here>


----------



## roskodan

i don't know what do you refer to about being serious, if you could specify would be nice, anyway, true story, i got 4 more of those tagan cables since then


----------



## Viper2005

alvinmate said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have placed the order for the V281 and considering getting the aftermarket power cable. I have a budget of around $300-$500. Those who already own this amp or have significant experience with cables can you please give me your recommendations and does it make any difference with the upgrade?
> 
> ...


 
 I would say, no, don't waste your money on power cables.  Invest instead in better interconnects or headphone cable.  You can at least hear a difference with those  
 If you're really worried the stock cable isn't letting through enough juice, get a 14 AWG cable from Monoprice    That's the same thickness as most standard house wire.


----------



## alvinmate

Thanks for the advice... I was planning on getting the cables from *Toxic Cables* they even make power cables now however not sure at the moment as I am still exploring....


----------



## Savant

roskodan said:


> i don't know what do you refer to about being serious, if you could specify would be nice, anyway, true story, i got 4 more of those tagan cables since then


 
  
  
 Hi there.  Those Tagan cables look quite nice. Where did you buy them? I would be interested to get some myself... and I'm located in Europe.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## madbull

Can I order just a different DAC module, for instance the one with optical input and install it myself? Seriously considering buying a SACD to connect to V281. Or is there an interface USB-Optical around which can make the job satisfactorily enough?


----------



## madbull

PS.: maybe I just should use an external DAC instead anyway...


----------



## Xenophon

alvinmate said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have placed the order for the V281 and considering getting the aftermarket power cable. I have a budget of around $300-$500. Those who already own this amp or have significant experience with cables can you please give me your recommendations and does it make any difference with the upgrade?
> 
> ...


 

 Considering what happens to the electricity and the conditioning that goes on once it reaches the unit, imo power cables are an utterly useless 'investment'. I'll pay a pint to anyone who can reliably identify a difference between one of those gazillian bucks cables and a basic el cheapo model.  Same for headphone cables and interconnects, btw.  Friend of mine owns interconnects costing a couple of thousands a pair.  I tried them extensively:  no audible difference with my 100 EUR pair.  If you feel the need to burn money, I think there are better pyres around.


----------



## PleasantSounds

madbull said:


> Can I order just a different DAC module, for instance the one with optical input and install it myself? Seriously considering buying a SACD to connect to V281. Or is there an interface USB-Optical around which can make the job satisfactorily enough?


 
  
 I have installed the DAC with Coax interface in mine, Toslink is also available.
 Installing is straightforward, although the instruction was not provided with the DAC board. 
  
 Comparing the sound to Lynx Hilo which is a pro grade converter and considered one of the best DACs available, to me they sound very very close. You'll have to spend big time to get something markedly better.


----------



## project86

alvinmate said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have placed the order for the V281 and considering getting the aftermarket power cable. I have a budget of around $300-$500. Those who already own this amp or have significant experience with cables can you please give me your recommendations and does it make any difference with the upgrade?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 To be honest, I would wait until you are extremely familiar with your wonderful new amp before you attempt any sort of cable shenanigans. I personally use reasonably priced (by my standards) quality cables mainly from Cabledyne but also Charleston Cable Co, Toxic Cables, and some other smallish cable houses. But I don't consider them absolutely necessary by any means. If you don't hear a difference or have some philosophic issue with cables then by all means, do not spent more than necessary. Use stock cables or monoprice and be happy, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
  
 If you DO decide to go down the slippery slope of cables, be reasonable and take it one step at a time. Again, if you think you hear a difference, or enjoy the looks/feel of the cable, or just feel more confident knowing you have upgraded every part of the chain, then that's perfectly fine as well. Try a few with good return policies, settle on something, and don't let anyone tell you it was a bad choice or you are crazy for spending more than $5. It works both ways and we need to respect individual choices. 
  
  
  


madbull said:


> Can I order just a different DAC module, for instance the one with optical input and install it myself? Seriously considering buying a SACD to connect to V281. Or is there an interface USB-Optical around which can make the job satisfactorily enough?


 
  
  
 Yes, as someone else mentioned it is possible. Though I have to clarify - SACD players don't normally allow for passing their digital output to an external DAC (except for via HDMI or a few other proprietary connections). So if you have an SACD player you'll want to connect via RCA outputs, and therefore won't need the DAC option.


----------



## lunz

Hi John,
  
 Do you have any ETA for your review on the V281 ?
  
 Rgds


----------



## Ultrainferno

xenophon said:


> Considering what happens to the electricity and the conditioning that goes on once it reaches the unit, imo power cables are an utterly useless 'investment'. I'll pay a pint to anyone who can reliably identify a difference between one of those gazillian bucks cables and a basic el cheapo model.  Same for headphone cables and interconnects, btw.  Friend of mine owns interconnects costing a couple of thousands a pair.  I tried them extensively:  no audible difference with my 100 EUR pair.  If you feel the need to burn money, I think there are better pyres around.


 
  
 I agree on the power cables, but I have heard a lot of differences with headphone cables. That being said, we have very good and clean power where you and I live, maybe it's different in other parts of the world. (but then maybe a power conditioner would be better)
 With interconnects there do was an audible difference when I switched years ago from 1€ cables to some decent hand made cables.
  
 If someone believes his power cords or interconnects make a difference, let them think so and enjoy their purchase.
  
 Absolutely loving my V281 btw, Will be putting the V200 up for sale soon!


----------



## Megalomaniak

xenophon said:


> Considering what happens to the electricity and the conditioning that goes on once it reaches the unit, imo power cables are an utterly useless 'investment'. I'll pay a pint to anyone who can reliably identify a difference between one of those gazillian bucks cables and a basic el cheapo model.  Same for headphone cables and interconnects, btw.  Friend of mine owns interconnects costing a couple of thousands a pair.  I tried them extensively:  no audible difference with my 100 EUR pair.  If you feel the need to burn money, I think there are better pyres around.


 
 +1
  
 Ive tried a couple power cables and never noticed a single difference under blind testing, so at home for my amps I use Antec PSU cables (computer hardware stuff) because they are extremely long and I got 'em for free years ago, my desk is quite wide 
  
 And never had an issue with interferences, background sound, nothing. 
  
 Also loving my V281 each day more!


----------



## plakat

While the cable itself won't matter after countless meters of cheap wall-cabling, the choke on the pictured cable may help if you have high-frequency noise on your power line. But something like that can be added to a cheap cable as well...
  
 What remains is the bad optics of combining a cheap cable with this good looking amp... but if a solution to that is worth 300,-, 500,- or even more is up to each owner I guess.


----------



## TMY168

Interesting discussion about the after-market power cable... 
If one wants to get the feet wet, try Shunyata Venom 3 (entry level Shunyata.) It's not so expensive. Somehow, I do hear the difference between these power cords. But hey, I'm just a newbie here. 

I also replace the fuses in my amps (Burson Soloist & Bryston BHA-1) with Power-House Platinum fuses. It's much better than the Hifi-Tuning. 

BTW, my V281 is arriving in a few days.


Cheers!
- ToMmY -


----------



## roskodan

savant said:


> roskodan said:
> 
> 
> > i don't know what do you refer to about being serious, if you could specify would be nice, anyway, true story, i got 4 more of those tagan cables since then
> ...


 

 well i 'stole' em from a colleague at work who had higher end tagan psus on his pcs and replaced them with the plain cheap black ones XD, i'm sure any 'pro' cable with such specific resemblances will do (gold plated connectors, shielded, higher grade finish, ferrite ring etc.), try to find some at work or uni or somewhere like that XXXD
  
 got some labeling on it:
  
 Best Honour H05VV-F 3G 0.75mm^2 (OVE) (VDE) KEMA-KEUR +S+S+S FIDNS CEBEC
  
 but actually one cold also make its own cables from some OFC PE speaker cable (i have some tasker C288 4x2.5mm i used for biwiring), or some shielded OFC PE cable (0.75mm or more) and see if that makes a difference against the plain black ones, something like these ones with 2 OFC conductors and PE insulation http://www.tasker.it/prodotti/famiglia.php?idCat=132&idFam=85


----------



## alvinmate

Hey everyone thanks for your feedback and honest opinion... I am also not sure whether its going to bring any sonic difference to the sound but hey its a beautiful looking power amp so thinking of making the whole package more '''presentable''..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Anyone has experience with Voodoo cables...?
  
 I am thinking of getting this one... Voodoo Avatar I can get this one for special price at my local dealer..... what do u guys think?


----------



## Xenophon

alvinmate said:


> Hey everyone thanks for your feedback and honest opinion... I am also not sure whether its going to bring any sonic difference to the sound but hey its a beautiful looking power amp so thinking of making the whole package more '''presentable''..
> 
> Anyone has experience with Voodoo cables...?
> 
> I am thinking of getting this one... Voodoo Avatar I can get this one for special price at my local dealer..... what do u guys think?




As long as you realize that what you're paying for is esthetics rather than sound quality, every cable is fair game and you should spend whatever you're comfortable with, same as with cars beyond a normal price point. No accounting for tastes, it's not because it's not my kind of thing that it should be prohibited. Enjoy!


----------



## xaval

Is there any impressions on V220? I'd be interested on gauging sound differences between these two models as I don't own any balance cables. 
  
 I have the impression that V220 is based on V200 but, outside cosmetics, price, a couple nice-to-haves and powah, are there sonic differences between the two? Interested on a bit of warmth, but I can't live without micro / macrodynamics and rolled off highs.


----------



## macdevign

alvinmate said:


> Hey everyone thanks for your feedback and honest opinion... I am also not sure whether its going to bring any sonic difference to the sound but hey its a beautiful looking power amp so thinking of making the whole package more '''presentable''..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Before you purchase any cable or tweak, may be prudent to ask yourself what kind of sound improvement you looking at ?  Better soundstaging, better depth, better layering, warm , bright sound ? forward or laidback sound ?


----------



## Viper2005

alvinmate said:


> Anyone has experience with Voodoo cables...?
> 
> I am thinking of getting this one... Voodoo Avatar I can get this one for special price at my local dealer..... what do u guys think?




All I will say is: at least it's aptly named.


----------



## xaval

viper2005 said:


> All I will say is: at least it's aptly named.


 
 funnyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


----------



## lunz

So after a week with the V281 on SE connected to the LCD2.2, I enjoyed the sound coming from the amp but I didn't feel completely satisfied with it (don't ask me the cause of it, I won't be able to tell why).
  
 I finally received my stock unbalanced (_Edit: Balanced, txs Pleasant Sounds _ ) cable. Might be placebo effect, but I just cannot stop smiling while listening to the music now 
  
 Funny when you are beginning in a hobby, you know that something is good but you don't have the words to describe why: you just feel it.


----------



## PleasantSounds

If you're talking about the difference between SE and unbalanced, it very well may be a placebo


----------



## lunz

Ouch ! I need more coffee ! "Balanced"


----------



## Revogamer

The violectric is quite a bit more powerful through balanced is it not? as it is using both of the amplifiers inside..


----------



## PleasantSounds

revogamer said:


> The violectric is quite a bit more powerful through balanced is it not? as it is using both of the amplifiers inside..


 
  
 The interesting thing is how this extra power affects the sound.
 It's not so much about the ability to go louder with the likes of HE-6, at least not only that.
 What I have observed in balanced mode is much more slam, much improved attack. That's the most striking difference for me. The soundstage is also improved, with more precise imaging.
  
 The result may depend on the headphone though. With my HD800 and T5p I would describe the improvement as incremental, but with Q701 I just couldn't believe the difference: this headphone in balanced mode is completely transformed. The imaging tightens up. Bass becomes rather prominent, so that if I didn't know any better I would qualify this headphone into the fun category. And it goes really deep: at 16Hz I can't hear it any more but I can still feel it vibrating.


----------



## daveyston23

I wish people with opinions about cables (both for and against) would just keep it to themselves. Anybody enquiring about the pros and cons of getting an aftermarket cable should be advised to audition cables and make up their own mind.

Same goes with power related components.


----------



## mulder01

So I'm seeing a bucketload of love for this amp in this thread...
  
 Does anyone NOT like it??  And why?


----------



## project86

lunz said:


> Hi John,
> 
> Do you have any ETA for your review on the V281 ?
> 
> Rgds


 
  
  
 I'm shooting for the end of the year, maybe a bit sooner if I can find more writing time. I'm way backed up though. That's why I come here frequently to post more impressions as I have new things to say - the wait for the final review could be a while. But feel free to ask me anything that comes up.
  
  


xaval said:


> Is there any impressions on V220? I'd be interested on gauging sound differences between these two models as I don't own any balance cables.
> 
> I have the impression that V220 is based on V200 but, outside cosmetics, price, a couple nice-to-haves and powah, are there sonic differences between the two? Interested on a bit of warmth, but I can't live without micro / macrodynamics and rolled off highs.


 
  
 I don't know that anyone actually has a V220 yet. I've only heard from other V281 owners. That said, using V281 through the SE jack does produce a noticeable improvement over the V200. Not a massive, night and day type thing, but more of a building on the already excellent sound. I'm using it right now for some CIEMs I'm reviewing at the moment, and it does a phenomenal job.
  
  


mulder01 said:


> So I'm seeing a bucketload of love for this amp in this thread...
> 
> Does anyone NOT like it??  And why?


 
  
  
 Not that I've heard of. But I'm sure there would be some people who prefer a different sound signature. Maybe those who favor ultra-smooth, lush tube sound, or really crisp and fast sound with a more polite presentation. V281 has major guts and it won't appeal to everyone - no amp will.


----------



## xaval

project86 said:


> I'm shooting for the end of the year, maybe a bit sooner if I can find more writing time. I'm way backed up though. That's why I come here frequently to post more impressions as I have new things to say - the wait for the final review could be a while. But feel free to ask me anything that comes up.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that anyone actually has a V220 yet. I've only heard from other V281 owners. That said, using V281 through the SE jack does produce a noticeable improvement over the V200. Not a massive, night and day type thing, but more of a building on the already excellent sound. I'm using it right now for some CIEMs I'm reviewing at the moment, and it does a phenomenal job.


 
 Thanks! I'll figure the V220 sound by the V281 SE feedback.
  
 I'm leaning more and more towards getting the first V220 around here as the shortlist is getting really small right now.
  
 So, project86 here's another question. I "need" a DAC for this baby. I've heard a lot of praise for the Tobby and your last year review is a testament to that. Here's what I'm looking at:
 - Get a V220 with the internal DAC -> One box solution and cheaper than the Tobby. One type of input only.
 - Get a Tobby and pair it with V220 -> Not a so compact solution for the desk and more expensive. More flexible too with loads of inputs. Resale value :s
  
 I don't know if you sitll have the Tobby around, but I'd appreciate a lot a few liners about how you'd compare both pairing with the V281. There's very little information about the Vio DAC board although it has been asked quite often. I'm sure each DAC will have it's own character but is the Tobby clearly better sounding than de Vio?


----------



## TominJapan

project86 said:


> I'm shooting for the end of the year, maybe a bit sooner if I can find more writing time. I'm way backed up though. That's why I come here frequently to post more impressions as I have new things to say - the wait for the final review could be a while. But feel free to ask me anything that comes up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a quick one: how much better is the V281 over two nuforce HA-200?


----------



## BeyerMonster

madbull said:


> thanks for the info, the manual points to violectric.de and theres no download section there. What a waste of my time.


 
 It's not THAT hard to find on violectric.de:
 Support->Violectric->Software


----------



## Xenophon

project86 said:


> Not that I've heard of. But I'm sure there would be some people who prefer a different sound signature. Maybe those who favor ultra-smooth, lush tube sound, or *really crisp and fast sound with a more polite presentation. V281 has major guts and it won't appeal to everyone - no amp will. *


 
 That's me.  I own the V200 and I'll gladly stipulate that it's a great amp that will certainly satisfy the vast majority of people.  And I guess the V281 will do even more so.  The following is not a critique but rather a question of personal preference and searching for the best of all possible worlds:  I listen almost exclusively to classical music and have a preference for a lighter/crisper/more nimble touch than the Violectric amps (disclaimer, I haven't heard the new generation) seem to offer.  Violectric has this slightly warm and -for lack of a better word- stolid presentation.  
  
 The closest I've gotten so far was by listening to a Nelson Pass F1-J amp (sadly not mine) with my HE-6.  It's even better than my F5 clone.  But unfortunately the Pass amps are meant for speakers and are seriously off-mainstream models, with the F1 being virtually unavailable.
  
 Anyway, I'm still happy with my V200, no mistake..and as Project86 rightly remarks, it's impossible to please everyone 100%.


----------



## project86

xaval said:


> Thanks! I'll figure the V220 sound by the V281 SE feedback.
> 
> I'm leaning more and more towards getting the first V220 around here as the shortlist is getting really small right now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good question. Tobby is a more resolving DAC than the Violectric add-on option. It's noticeable for sure when using a good amp like V281. Is it mandatory? No, but if you want to take full advantage of this killer amp you can spend ever higher amounts of money to get there (I use a $5k DAC myself). The Tobby just has more and better "everything" compared to the built-in option, which again does not underwhelm at all considering the price it adds. For simplicity the build in DAC is a no brainer but for all out performance the Tobby would be a very nice match. 
  
  


tominjapan said:


> I have a quick one: how much better is the V281 over two nuforce HA-200?


 
  
  
 Another good question - I do love the dual mono HA-200, it's excellent for the price. Diminishing returns and all that, the V281 is still a far better amp. Especially when used in balanced mode to make it sort of an apples to apples comparison. HA-200 monoblocks are among the best you can get under $1k, but V281 is among the best you can get regardless of price. Hope that sums it up. Obviously you'd want to have the budget for it, a suitably high quality source, and some top level headphone(s) to use in order to make V281 worth springing for. 
  
  


xenophon said:


> That's me.  I own the V200 and I'll gladly stipulate that it's a great amp that will certainly satisfy the vast majority of people.  And I guess the V281 will do even more so.  The following is not a critique but rather a question of personal preference and searching for the best of all possible worlds:  I listen almost exclusively to classical music and have a preference for a lighter/crisper/more nimble touch than the Violectric amps (disclaimer, I haven't heard the new generation) seem to offer.  Violectric has this slightly warm and -for lack of a better word- stolid presentation.
> 
> The closest I've gotten so far was by listening to a Nelson Pass F1-J amp (sadly not mine) with my HE-6.  It's even better than my F5 clone.  But unfortunately the Pass amps are meant for speakers and are seriously off-mainstream models, with the F1 being virtually unavailable.
> 
> Anyway, I'm still happy with my V200, no mistake..and as Project86 rightly remarks, it's impossible to please everyone 100%.


 
  
 See, this is exactly what I meant. I think V281 would be more satisfying for someone like you compared to the V200, but it's probably still not perfect for your preferences. I might recommend the Questyle CMA800R or even two of them in dual mono mode, to scratch that speed itch you've got going on.


----------



## plakat

alvinmate said:


> Hey everyone thanks for your feedback and honest opinion... I am also not sure whether its going to bring any sonic difference to the sound but hey its a beautiful looking power amp so thinking of making the whole package more '''presentable''..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Visual appearance is of course far ahead of a standard cable. Plus they are honest with their name...


----------



## Savant

roskodan said:


> well i 'stole' em from a colleague at work who had higher end tagan psus on his pcs and replaced them with the plain cheap black ones XD, i'm sure any 'pro' cable with such specific resemblances will do (gold plated connectors, shielded, higher grade finish, ferrite ring etc.), try to find some at work or uni or somewhere like that XXXD
> 
> got some labeling on it:
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for taking the time to look it up and for the suggestions. I will take them into consideration.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## ellevoid

One question here, will internal DAC or remote control module has effect on sound quality of this amp?


----------



## plakat

I guess in case of the internal DAC you mean 'effect if not using it' -- that would be a no I guess, its just another input channel and does not change the existing ones.
  
 regarding the remote options: essentially they add a motor to the potentiometer (plus an IR receiver obviously), so I don't think the simple remote option does in any way change the sound signature. In case of the relay-based upgrade it should have a positive effect, if only to correct any channel imbalance a normal potentiometer might exhibit.


----------



## navigavi

Is anyone using the violectic v800 dac with the v281 amp? Looking for some impressions compared to the internal dac or other external dacs.
  
 I'm owning the v200 and v800 and looking to upgrade the v200 and buy some balanced headphone cables for my hd800. (I'm thinking the 'overpriced' balanced sennheiser cables)
  
 Thanks!


----------



## roskodan

or you can just re-terminate the stock 1/4 trs with a 4 pole xlr, i use these ones, really nice and cheaply available on ebay http://www.neutrik.com/en/xlr/xlr-cable-connectors/xx-series/
  
 there are black and silver color option with either gold or silver plating, gold wont stain


----------



## project86

navigavi said:


> Is anyone using the violectic v800 dac with the v281 amp? Looking for some impressions compared to the internal dac or other external dacs.


 
  
  
 V800 is an excellent DAC and should sound great with V281 - a step up from the internal DAC option, as it should be for the price.


----------



## navigavi

roskodan said:


> or you can just re-terminate the stock 1/4 trs with a 4 pole xlr, i use these ones, really nice and cheaply available on ebay http://www.neutrik.com/en/xlr/xlr-cable-connectors/xx-series/
> 
> there are black and silver color option with either gold or silver plating, gold wont stain


 
  
 I suppose you need 4 pole male connectors (http://www.neutrik.com/en/xlr/xx-series/nc4mxx-b). I just don't have any soldering experience or equipment. I do like the idea though. Thanks roskodan.
  


project86 said:


> V800 is an excellent DAC and should sound great with V281 - a step up from the internal DAC option, as it should be for the price.


 
  
 Thanks project86. I was hoping for that. Have you heard this combo as well?


----------



## project86

navigavi said:


> Thanks project86. I was hoping for that. Have you heard this combo as well?


 
  
  
 I have the V800 out on loan but am extremely familiar with it, having used it for several years with various amps. So I have not used it with my V281 but I'm confident it would pair very well.


----------



## Tony1110

I cannot decide between the V281 with built-in USB DAC module (my budget forbids a standalone DAC on top of a very expensive amp) and a Yulong DA8 with either the A18 or A28 (plus balanced interconnects) to drive my HE-560. Which direction would Project86 go given similar financial constraints?


----------



## Tony1110

Okay. I've joined the V281 club :-/


----------



## PleasantSounds

You won't be sorry.


----------



## project86

Ha! That didn't take long, did it? Thought about it a few hours and made a choice.
  
 I think you made the right move. A top level headphone deserves a killer amp, and that's exactly what you'll get with the V281. The DAC section is "good enough" for some serious enjoyment, and later down the road you can always spring for some high-end unit if you want.


----------



## Tony1110

project86 said:


> Ha! That didn't take long, did it? Thought about it a few hours and made a choice.
> 
> I think you made the right move. A top level headphone deserves a killer amp, and that's exactly what you'll get with the V281. The DAC section is "good enough" for some serious enjoyment, and later down the road you can always spring for some high-end unit if you want.




It's taken quite a while. I've been interested for a few months and have had it in various electronic shopping baskets without ever having the conviction to actually pay for it - until now. At least at this level I should be reassured that there's not a lot out there that can significantly better my amp. Got it at a decent price too.

Now it's just a case of waiting for the balanced cable to arrive.


----------



## shultzee

Congrats. The v281 is amazing running balanced.


----------



## Tony1110

shultzee said:


> Congrats. The v281 is amazing running balanced.




I think the amp will probably arrive from Germany before the cable arrives from America. I've read plenty about how good this amp is in balanced mode; I hope single-ended isn't too underwhelming.


----------



## mulder01

tony1110 said:


> I think the amp will probably arrive from Germany before the cable arrives from America. I've read plenty about how good this amp is in balanced mode; I hope single-ended isn't too underwhelming.


 
 I seriously doubt you will be underwhelmed.  I listened to the Abyss at an audio show on the weekend driven off this amp and the retailer couldn't find the 4pin to 2x3pin balanced adapter but did have the 1/4inch to 2x3pin xlr adapter so I had a listen to it single ended mode and I loved it - so much so I bought one, so if it only gets better off the balanced output I'll be one happy man.


----------



## madbull

navigavi said:


> Is anyone using the violectic v800 dac with the v281 amp? Looking for some impressions compared to the internal dac or other external dacs.
> 
> I'm owning the v200 and v800 and looking to upgrade the v200 and buy some balanced headphone cables for my hd800. (I'm thinking the 'overpriced' balanced sennheiser cables)
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 I'm about to try it, as soon as I can convert my V800 from 230V to 120V.
  
 Although the only reason I'm doing it is to use a CD transport, as my V281 has only USB input.


----------



## Tony1110

madbull said:


> I'm about to try it, as soon as I can convert my V800 from 230V to 120V.
> 
> Although the only reason I'm doing it is to use a CD transport, as my V281 has only USB input.




Did you ever get that USB driver sorted?


----------



## Frank I

The V281 is very interesting balanced. Certainly enough power. The musicality is worthy of flagship status. I am really enjoying this amplifier. It still has that famous black background and is a special piece. Freid really did well with this. The V200 soundstage I always felt was a little congested and restrained. The V281 solved that problem. The recordings  soundstage is veyr good with the V281. The V281 is not embarrassing itself  against my reference Viva Egoista and that is saying much since the Egoista is 10K. The difference I will talk about in my impressions when I finish writing the review.


----------



## daveyston23

Somebody please help me with a noob question: if I'm setting up a balanced setup with the V281, a standalone DAC, and a separate source, do all the connections in the chain have to be be balanced in order to get the most out of a balanced setup? 
  
 At the moment, I have either AK240 or a CD transport going into my DAC via optical, whereas the rest of the connections from DAC>V281>Headphones are all balanced. Am I losing anything here by not having a balanced source? 
  
 Any advice is much appreciated!


----------



## Frank I

I find the differences in balanced well worth it. I using the V281 balanced with Nordost  Blue Heaven Interconnect going into the Oppo BDP 105. It sound better if all are balanced especially headphones.  If you capable of doing it fully balanced you may want to explore it but it works well for me.


----------



## PleasantSounds

daveyston23 said:


> Somebody please help me with a noob question: if I'm setting up a balanced setup with the V281, a standalone DAC, and a separate source, do all the connections in the chain have to be be balanced in order to get the most out of a balanced setup?
> 
> At the moment, I have either AK240 or a CD transport going into my DAC via optical, whereas the rest of the connections from DAC>V281>Headphones are all balanced. Am I losing anything here by not having a balanced source?
> 
> Any advice is much appreciated!


 
  
 The balanced signal is not needed in the digital domain, and all the common standards are single ended. 
 You're not losing anything.


----------



## Tony1110

As far as I can tell, the only benefit to having a balanced DAC is the stronger signal it passes to the amp. I say 'as far as I can tell' because it's always been an aspect that confuses me. I don't know what kind of impact a stronger signal makes when it all comes out the other end.


----------



## roskodan

in fact when comparing balanced and se inputs on the amp one should match the input level by mean of the pre-gain, to avoid the louder to sound different, you can calculate the Vrms to dBu *HERE*
  
 also electronically balanced interconnections will benefit from common noise rejection between the hot and cold phase, some dacs have variable output too, and there is no contamination from the ground, also higher levels can be achieved with less distortion/noise at the source


----------



## Tony1110

roskodan said:


> in fact when comparing balanced and se inputs on the amp one should match the input level by mean of the pre-gain, to avoid the louder to sound different, you can calculate the Vrms to dBu *HERE*
> 
> also electronically balanced interconnections will benefit from common noise rejection between the hot and cold phase, some dacs have variable output too, and there is no contamination from the ground, also higher levels can be achieved with less distortion/noise at the source




Yeah, I forgot to mention all that  Am I correct in saying that your typical SE DAC will have an output level of about 2.4Vrms as opposed to about 4Vrms in a balanced DAC? Other than the hot and cold gain stuff, doesn't pre-gain pretty much eliminate the need for a balanced DAC? Seems to me that the only difference, in most cases, is the point at which the volume dial will be set.


----------



## xaval

frank i said:


> The V281 is very interesting balanced. Certainly enough power. The musicality is worthy of flagship status. I am really enjoying this amplifier. It still has that famous black background and is a special piece. Freid really did well with this. The V200 soundstage I always felt was a little congested and restrained. The V281 solved that problem. The recordings  soundstage is veyr good with the V281. The V281 is not embarrassing itself  against my reference Viva Egoista and that is saying much since the Egoista is 10K. The difference I will talk about in my impressions when I finish writing the review.


 
 How about treble airness and extension as well as micro detail. Some of the weakness that has been pointed out regarding the V200 is the slight treble rolloff and the relative lack of detail, maybe because of the warmness of the amp...


----------



## Frank I

xaval said:


> How about treble airness and extension as well as micro detail. Some of the weakness that has been pointed out regarding the V200 is the slight treble rolloff and the relative lack of detail, maybe because of the warmness of the amp...


 
 Te V281 is actually two V200 in once chassis with a bigger power supply. The difference from when I havd the V200 s it is another amplifier entirely The biggest difference with  the V281 is a wide and detailed soundstage. There Is more separation between instruments with better focus and transparency. the soundstage has evolved.
  
 The amplifier is not embarrassing itself when I switch to to 10K reference Egoista I have.  The V281 had good extension in the upper treble as well as bass. The micro detail is evident when listening to recording. You will Hear What is on the recording with a good source. The better the source the more detail you will hear. The tone of the amplifier is not bright. The sound to me is very similar to what I hear live.  There is no analytical sound to the v281, it is an instrument  and not like an amplifier that is cold and had microscopic detail-live music never sound slike that. the goal here was to get closer to the music and the V281 delivers for me.


----------



## roskodan

tony1110 said:


> roskodan said:
> 
> 
> > in fact when comparing balanced and se inputs on the amp one should match the input level by mean of the pre-gain, to avoid the louder to sound different, you can calculate the Vrms to dBu *HERE*
> ...


 
 no, balanced operation is about common noise rejection and isolation from ground, therefore less crosstalk between left and right channels, the fact that the level is higher is a byproduct of the single ended implementation inside the dac being 'doubled' to achieve balanced effect (basically having two inverted single ended sources/output to achieve one balanced, minus ground wire in the signal path), so out of practicality and common sense not to mess with the signal level more than it's necessary it's left to be twice that of the single ended output, also it's an industry standard for pro gear
  
 pre-gain is used for overall level matching before gain because of the huge difference in sensitivity and impedance between various headphones/iems, basically a fixed resistor (stepped attenuator is you wish) pot before gain stage so to have more (or less, in that case it increases gain by looping) headroom with the main knob pot
  
 but one must be aware that pre-gain value will sum up to the source level, so if like with the v200 the max input level is 21dBu for balanced input and your dac (source) output level is 15dBu (v800 default level for balanced output), than the max pre-gain usable before clipping will be +6dbu (15+6=21), so in that sense, yes, pre-gain is also used to eventually match the levels between source and amp (preamp), but it's hard to find such sources with so high default output levels


----------



## Tony1110

roskodan said:


> no, balanced operation is about common noise rejection and isolation from ground, therefore less crosstalk between left and right channels, the fact that the level is higher is a byproduct of the single ended implementation inside the dac being 'doubled' to achieve balanced effect (basically having two inverted single ended sources/output to achieve one balanced, minus ground wire in the signal path), so out of practicality and common sense not to mess with the signal level more than it's necessary it's left to be twice that of the single ended output, also it's an industry standard for pro gear
> 
> pre-gain is used for overall level matching before gain because of the huge difference in sensitivity and impedance between various headphones/iems, basically a fixed resistor (stepped attenuator is you wish) pot before gain stage so to have more (or less, in that case it increases gain by looping) headroom with the main knob pot
> 
> but one must be aware that pre-gain value will sum up to the source level, so if like with the v200 the max input level is 21dBu for balanced input and your dac (source) output level is 15dBu (v800 default level for balanced output), than the max pre-gain usable before clipping will be +6dbu (15+6=21), so in that sense, yes, pre-gain is also used to eventually match the levels between source and amp (preamp), but it's hard to find such sources with so high default output levels




Brace yourself for lots of PMs and lots of tedious questions from me when I get round to buying a proper DAC


----------



## shultzee

frank i said:


> Te V281 is actually two V200 in once chassis with a bigger power supply. The difference from when I havd the V200 s it is another amplifier entirely The biggest difference with  the V281 is a wide and detailed soundstage. There Is more separation between instruments with better focus and transparency. the soundstage has evolved.
> 
> The amplifier is not embarrassing itself when I switch to to 10K reference Egoista I have.  The V281 had good extension in the upper treble as well as bass. The micro detail is evident when listening to recording. You will Hear What is on the recording with a good source. The better the source the more detail you will hear. The tone of the amplifier is not bright. The sound to me is very similar to what I hear live.  There is no analytical sound to the v281, it is an instrument  and not like an amplifier that is cold and had microscopic detail-live music never sound slike that. the goal here was to get closer to the music and the V281 delivers for me.


 

 I agree totally on the soundstage.  That was the shocker for me.   The separation and detail of the soundstage was a eye opener.  I came from three straight tube amps so I attributed some of it to moving to SS.   Also on my rig there is more punch to the bass and power to spare (in a huge way) .


----------



## Frank I

The amp  has matured after burn In. Freid did a wonderful job with this unit. I will be using the Dac all week next week and see how it responds to USB and lossless files. I also have some high resolution files as well.


----------



## Byrnie

frank i said:


> The amp  has arrived. Freid did a wonderful job with this unit. I will be using the Dac all week next week and see how it responds to USB and lossless files. I also have some high resolution files as well.


 
 Wait I thought you said you already had the amp?  Is this a different one?  Just trying to figure out which amp you're referring to .


----------



## madbull

tony1110 said:


> Did you ever get that USB driver sorted?


 

 Yes, I managed that. Violectric.de didn't have any drivers, but the American site had. Go figure.


----------



## lunz

madbull said:


> Yes, I managed that. Violectric.de didn't have any drivers, but the American site had. Go figure.


 

  
 Isn't the driver available at the following address ? http://www.violectric.de/violectric-others.html


----------



## xaval

byrnie said:


> Wait I thought you said you already had the amp?  Is this a different one?  Just trying to figure out which amp you're referring to .


----------



## Frank I

byrnie said:


> Wait I thought you said you already had the amp?  Is this a different one?  Just trying to figure out which amp you're referring to .


 
 I meant it had  matured. (Burn IN)that it was fully burned in and now has fully opened up some more. Yes the amp is burned in now and sound excellent sorry for the confusion. I meant to edit that word yesterday but got distracted with phone calls.


----------



## Byrnie

frank i said:


> I meant it had  matured. (Burn IN)that it was fully burned in and now has fully opened up some more. Yes the amp is burned in now and sound excellent sorry for the confusion. I meant to edit that word yesterday but got distracted with phone calls.



Oh I see. Very cool and thanks for the clarification!


----------



## xaval

So with all this initial enthusiasm I think this amp needs to go against the SS heavy hitters to see how in the top of the pyramid things go.
  
 V281 vs:
 CMA800R
 GS-X2
 Phonitor 2
 Taurus mkII


----------



## Frank I

I have not heard the phonitor or the others  but I did review the GSX Mk2 and it  stacks up nicely .


----------



## Xenophon

frank i said:


> I have not heard the phonitor or the others  but I did review the GSX Mk2 and it  stacks up nicely .


 

 Did you try the GSX-Mk2 with a HE-6?  I had an extended session (but just one) with it and it and greatly like it with my HE-500 but it didn't convince me with the 6, I could get better results with the 6 plugged into my SX-1980 or to my F5, it sounded a bit shrill and thin in the treble with the Mk2 and that typically indicates lack of power on tap.  Does the V281 do better?


----------



## Frank I

xenophon said:


> Did you try the GSX-Mk2 with a HE-6?  I had an extended session (but just one) with it and it and greatly like it with my HE-500 but it didn't convince me with the 6, I could get better results with the 6 plugged into my SX-1980 or to my F5, it sounded a bit shrill and thin in the treble with the Mk2 and that typically indicates lack of power on tap.  Does the V281 do better?


 
 I dont have an hE6 here to drive on the the V281 but did when i had the GSX and I felt as other have the GSX did not drive the hE6 properly. Dubstep Girl felt the same way and uses the WA5 as I dod to drive the hE6. I heard the HE6 with my Viva and it did well. U fortunately I dont have one here to compare it with but it does drive every planar easily an dis also terrific with the hD800.


----------



## project86

I have an HE-6 here and the V281 does a brilliant job with it. Possibly better than the Taurus which is very high praise indeed. Taurus extracts a little more detail while V281 (balanced mode of course) is more engaging and musical. Neither of them seem strained or lacking power at all. 

I also have CMA800R and a single one of them is not in the same league when it comes to HE-6 performance. Two of them in dual mono mode becomes more competitive but even then I think V281 has the edge. 

Between Taurus, CMA800R, and V281, each of them has at least one headphone it excels with.


----------



## xaval

frank i said:


> I have not heard the phonitor or the others  but I did review the GSX Mk2 and it  stacks up nicely .


 
  
  


project86 said:


> I have an HE-6 here and the V281 does a brilliant job with it. Possibly better than the Taurus which is very high praise indeed. Taurus extracts a little more detail while V281 (balanced mode of course) is more engaging and musical. Neither of them seem strained or lacking power at all.
> 
> I also have CMA800R and a single one of them is not in the same league when it comes to HE-6 performance. Two of them in dual mono mode becomes more competitive but even then I think V281 has the edge.
> 
> Between Taurus, CMA800R, and V281, each of them has at least one headphone it excels with.


 
 Bring it! Counting on your in depth impressions later then.


----------



## navigavi

For people interested in the v281 located in europe, the v281 is now also available on thomann. It's where I bought my v200/v800 combo. They're on stock, so delivery time should be short, depending on your exact location within europe.
  
 http://www.thomann.de/gb/violectric_hpa_v281.htm
  
 I don't see any way to address your desired specifications like digital input, feet color, front color though. I have sent them an email about this.
  
 Will post more on this when I've got an email back.


----------



## JeffMann

This is my first post as I have just joined the forum - although I have been tracking this thread for a long time as a guest.

I have owned a Sennheiser HD800 and Vioelectric V200 amp for about 3 years and I loved the sound quality of that combination - using a Sony XCD5400 CD player as my music source (using Monoprice's balanced interconnect cables between the CD player and Vioelectric V200 amp). I decided to also purchase the V281 amp based on the many positive comments made in this thread. I only have about 15 hours of playing time (using a balanced Sennheiser headphone cable that I had to buy in order to run the combination in balanced mode).

I have two major questions. 

Question number 1: In balanced mode, I have noted that my volume control is usually between 9 - 10 o'clock (when it was previously between 11 - 1 o'clock when using my V200 amplifier) for most recordings when listening at roughly the same sound volume. I noted that there is very little difference in the range of volume control when I tried it out at the -6 and -12 pre-gain setting and it is still no higher than 10:30 o'clock at the -12 pre-gain setting. By contrast, when I plugged my single-ended AKG K701 headphones into the 1/4" single-ended headphone outlet I could see a large difference in volume settings eg. ~10 'clock when set at 0 pre-gain, ~12 o'clock when set at -6 pre-gain and ~2 o'clock when set at -12 pre-gain. Why are these "expected" volume setting changes not seen when I run the amp in balanced mode?

Question number 2:

I only listen to classical music and opera, When I listen to a string quartet using the V281 amp in balanced mode, the dynamic range sounds normal - when compared to my V200 amp. However, when I listen to symphonic music recorded with a large dynamic range, I am having a problem. When I set the softer sounds (eg, when a solo instrument is playing) at a comfortable "hearable" level (that is compatible with my extensive experience with "live" orchestral music) then the music gets too unaturally loud (and raucous) when the orchestra plays full tilt (at fortissimo levels). I have never had this problem with the V200, which can play very loud, while still sounding perfectly controlled and not "unaturally loud". Could this be due to the fact that my V281 amp (and new balanced cable) are not yet "burned-in", or is it due to the over-abundant power that this V281 amp can potentially produce? 

Jeff.


----------



## saxelrod92

jeffmann said:


> This is my first post as I have just joined the forum - although I have been tracking this thread for a long time as a guest.
> 
> I have owned a Sennheiser HD800 and Vioelectric V200 amp for about 3 years and I loved the sound quality of that combination - using a Sony XCD5400 CD player as my music source (using Monoprice's balanced interconnect cables between the CD player and Vioelectric V200 amp). I decided to also purchase the V281 amp based on the many positive comments made in this thread. I only have about 15 hours of playing time (using a balanced Sennheiser headphone cable that I had to buy in order to run the combination in balanced mode).
> 
> ...


 

 I think besides the power increase the main change that occurs when going balanced with the V281 is that the internal gain increases to 14dB, when in single ended its at 8dB. its like using it with +6dB in single ended, and with more power. Thats really all it is.


----------



## xaval

jeffmann said:


> This is my first post as I have just joined the forum - although I have been tracking this thread for a long time as a guest.
> 
> I have owned a Sennheiser HD800 and Vioelectric V200 amp for about 3 years and I loved the sound quality of that combination - using a Sony XCD5400 CD player as my music source (using Monoprice's balanced interconnect cables between the CD player and Vioelectric V200 amp). I decided to also purchase the V281 amp based on the many positive comments made in this thread. I only have about 15 hours of playing time (using a balanced Sennheiser headphone cable that I had to buy in order to run the combination in balanced mode).
> 
> ...


 
 I think question #1 has already been addressed.
  
 As for #2, how does it sound unbalanced on the same recording?
 I enjoy Classical and listen to live concerts frequently. To be honest, and without further feedback, I think you may actually have a wonderful problem which is increased dynamic range into the HD800 that V200 was unable to reach previously.
 In a large concert hall a single instrument can sound a bit faint and distant. A *fortissimo* isn't called a fortissimo by random chance.
  
 I'd rather not get into the burn in thing a lot. From personal perception, all new electronics need to "settle down" and it takes a few hours of play. Leave it on a couple days and see if the sound changes a bit.
  
 Congrats on the "problem" and welcome to HeadFi


----------



## JeffMann

saxelrod92 said:


> I think besides the power increase the main change that occurs when going balanced with the V281 is that the internal gain increases to 14dB, when in single ended its at 8dB. its like using it with +6dB in single ended, and with more power. Thats really all it is.





Thank you for expressing an informed personal opinion regarding my first question. Do you have an opinion as to whether an exaggerated, and uneven, transition from the production of soft musical passages to the production of very loud musical passages could be due a "burn-in" phenomenon. Also, how long does it take for the amp to "burn-in"?

Jeff.


----------



## JeffMann

xaval said:


> I think question #1 has already been addressed.
> 
> As for #2, how does it sound unbalanced on the same recording?
> I enjoy Classical and listen to live concerts frequently. To be honest, and without further feedback, I think you may actually have a wonderful problem which is increased dynamic range into the HD800 that V200 was unable to reach previously.
> ...




Consider this recording of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring - http://www.amazon.com/Stravinsky-Rite-Spring-Pulcinella-Suite/dp/B000003CXF/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1414448807&sr=1-1&keywords=rite+of+spring+levi

It has a very large dynamic range, which my V200 can cope with in the sense that when I set the soft passages (usually an individual instrument playing softly, but distinctly and not faintly) to suit my personal hearing as I recall the same instrument sounding during a "live" performance from a good concert auditorium seat, then the loud passages are very loud but still controlled and undistorted/smeared/congested. The loud passages also sound consistent with what I would likely hear when listening to a "live" performance (presuming a seat that is not too close to the orchestra). When I set the soft passages to the same auditory level using the V281 (rather than the V200) then the loud passages are unnaturally loud, and also slightly distorted. I was wondering whether this problem could disappear when the amp finally complets its "burn in" process. By the way, I define "burn in" as the length of the time period for sound reproduction faults (that are not inherent to a particular piece of audio equipment) to finally disappear. Examples of those "burn-in" faults may be i) a woofy/non-taut bass-end, ii) an exaggerated treble end, and iii) imperfect soundstaging. For example, my AKG710 headphones took between 200-300 hours to "burn-in" while my Sony EA5400ES CD-player took as much as 500 hours to "burn-in" in terms of frequency response faults and non-optimum imaging/sounstaging behavior.

Jeff.


----------



## Viper2005

jeffmann said:


> Thank you for expressing an informed personal opinion regarding my first question. Do you have an opinion as to whether an exaggerated, and uneven, transition from the production of soft musical passages to the production of very loud musical passages could be due a "burn-in" phenomenon. Also, how long does it take for the amp to "burn-in"?
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
 I have the v281 amp which I have been using for several weeks now.  Don't expect any changes from burn-in.  I certainly did not notice any change from day one.
 Also, as Xaval said, that increased dynamic range you hear is a good thing.  Symphonies should range from faint solo to deafening loud during a fortissimo.
 Have you tried using your single ended cable with the v281?


----------



## macdevign

jeffmann said:


> Thank you for expressing an informed personal opinion regarding my first question. Do you have an opinion as to whether an exaggerated, and uneven, transition from the production of soft musical passages to the production of very loud musical passages could be due a "burn-in" phenomenon. Also, how long does it take for the amp to "burn-in"?
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
 Could it be due to the power cord you are using or maybe you can improve it by using a better power cord ? 
  
 In the past when I have a eximus dac running on chord superscreen power cord, the overall sound is soft and bit flat sounding however after switching to Nordost blue heaven power cord, the soundstage becomes larger and holographic,  and the sound is  noticeably louder. So could it be that your power cord is the bottleneck ? And if you could borrow a Nordost power cord to see if that really helps if "burn-in" fails.


----------



## Viper2005

macdevign said:


> Could it be due to the power cord you are using or maybe you can improve it by using a better power cord ?
> 
> In the past when I have a eximus dac running on chord superscreen power cord, the overall sound is soft and bit flat sounding however after switching to Nordost blue heaven power cord, the soundstage becomes larger and holographic,  and the sound is  noticeably louder. So could it be that your power cord is the bottleneck ? And if you could borrow a Nordost power cord to see if that really helps if "burn-in" fails.


 
  
 I bought a Monoprice 14AWG power cord for my v281.  No one needs a thicker cord than that, as regular house wiring doesn't exceed 14awg..  But this will surely eliminate any bottleneck you may have.


----------



## JeffMann

I now think that Xaval and Viper2005 are correct and that I need to adjust to the "fact" that the V281 (with its increased power capability) is significantly increasing the dynamic range of my symphonic recordings and that I need to adjust my volume control setting to accommodate to that "fact". In the past (when using my V200 amp), I first adjusted the volume control to make the softer passages loud (as if I was sitting in the front row of the orchestra hall). I then only lowered the volume setting if the loudest passages were far too loud, and  I didn't need to make a large adjustment very often. When I tried this mental approach with the V281 amp, the loudest passages were far too loud (and I incorrectly blamed the amp for the problem).
  
 I have now tried a different mental approach when listening to symphonic recordings (eg. Mahler's 2nd symphony recorded by Solti or Shostakovich's 4th symphony recorded by Haitink). I have now adjusted the V281's volume control to make the loudest musical passages loud (but not unnaturally loud) and I have discovered that the softest passages are significantly softer than my previous listening experience. The aural sensation is equivalent to moving further back into the concert hall - as if I were moving from a front row seat to a seat in the mid-section of the orchestral hall. That allows me to accommodate to the wider dynamic range without experiencing any sensation of "loud-passage" distortion. This is a "new" aural experience for me and I am now increasingly realizing that the V281 is a wonderfully capable amp that is taking my headphone-based audio system to a higher level of musical fidelity. It is easy to listen to soft musical passages with the Violectric headphone amps (V200 or V281) because they have a very silent (black) background.
  
 Viper255,
  
 You wrote-: "_Also, as Xaval said, that increased dynamic range you hear is a good thing.  Symphonies should range from faint solo to deafening loud during a fortissimo. *Have you tried using your single ended cable with the v281*?_"
  
 I have not tried using my single-ended Sennheiser headphone cable with the V281 because that would defeat my underlying purpose for buying the V281 amp. I didn't choose to buy the V281 amp because I perceived that the V200 lacked enough power to drive my HD800 headphones. I bought the V281 because it would allow me to drive my HD800 headphones using a balanced cable, and I was anticipating that the balanced mode would improve the sound quality of my system. 
  
 Macdevign,
  
 You wrote-: "_Could it be due to the power cord you are using or maybe you can improve it by using a better power cord ? _
  
_In the past when I have a eximus dac running on chord superscreen power cord, the overall sound is soft and bit flat sounding however after switching to Nordost blue heaven power cord, the soundstage becomes larger and holographic,  and the sound is  noticeably louder. So could it be that your power cord is the bottleneck ? And if you could borrow a Nordost power cord to see if that really helps if "burn-in" fails."_
  
 I suspect that you are mischaracterizing my problem.  My problem is not a "bottleneck problem", but the opposite - the sound was perceived to be too loud (too dynamic). 
  
 I am happy with using Vioelectric's power cable, and I have no incentive to upgrade to audiophile power cords. I also own a Monoprice 14g power cord that I could theoretically use - but I suspect that it will not affect the sound.
  
 Jeff.


----------



## xaval

@JeffMann : Regarding the apparent increased dynamic range that you're experiencing with V281 vs V200, I think it would be interesting if you played a bit applying some filters on the transport side.
  
 If you're using a computer as source, playing with a compressor type plugin you can apply a sort of "loudness" control on some recordings. A slight adjustment is sometimes all you need. Some plugins are free so nothing to lose here. I prefer Ozone 5 for everything, but let's not digress.
 If you're using a CD transport, something like a DEQ2496 could also do this (and much more) for a small budget. This equipment is the swiss knife of digital mastering.
 If you're using vynil, you'd need an analog compressor. A nice Rane DEQ 60 would be perfect (but expensive) and a perfect EQ to boot.
  
 I know some people are adverse to this kind of tweakings, but as I'm not one of those purist audiophiles, I care mostly to sound enjoyment and I can perfectly understand how "scary" some dynamic ranges can get. 
 For example, on this recording http://www.allmusic.com/album/igor-stravinsky-the-firebird-suite-nightingale-rite-of-spring-mw0001805307 when you get up to about halfway into the Firebird Suite... if you're not ready for what's coming you WILL jump. On my loudspeakers I spilled my tea the first time I listened to this. No way you can listen to this recording at night with nearby neighbours.
  
 I was debating on getting a new head amp as I has evaluating a few of the usual suspects in this price/performance range and your post (as well as others) made it to me. I ordered a full silver v220 (my headphones are all SE) _panzer_ last night. I think I'm the first with this amp here!


----------



## Xenophon

I'm not a sound tech and stand ready to be corrected, but afaik the dynamic range of a recording won't change if you play it with different amps; it's intrinsic in the way the music was mastered (provided no clipping occurs of course).  I also listen to classical and .although some labels use some compression, some (like BIS) don't and you get the 17-18 dB swings with performances like the Firebird suite.  Being distracted and adjusting volume based on a pianissimo beginning can have disconcerting consequences.
  
 I wonder if what you're experiencing is not rather related to a higher absolute volume with the 281 vs the 200.
  
 Anyway, as I'm also a big fan of classical music and an owner of a V200 I'm following this with a lot of interest and I'll be curious to read about Xaval's experience with the 220.  I'm not getting into the boat as one more amp would make my wife pack her bags and also because -strictly a matter of taste- I prefer a 'lighter' and more detailed touch than the Violectric family seems to offer.


----------



## xaval

You are correct when you state the DR of a recording won't change when playing with different amps. However, the way the system as a whole reproduces that dynamic range can change - for better or worse. Clipping is another matter as the amp cannot provide enough juice and simply starts distorting at certain frequencies/SPL range. The perceived quality of the audio system deteriorates. A better dynamic range reproduction allows you to discern with improved easiness the differences between loud and less louder passages.
  
 The same way the detail in a recording won't improve when you change a component in an audio system. A better component just might retrieve/extract more details out of the recording.


----------



## project86

Jeff,
  
 Quick question - are you connecting the XA5400ES via RCA cables or XLR?


----------



## JeffMann

xenophon said:


> I'm not a sound tech and stand ready to be corrected, but afaik the dynamic range of a recording won't change if you play it with different amps; it's intrinsic in the way the music was mastered (provided no clipping occurs of course).  I also listen to classical and .although some labels use some compression, some (like BIS) don't and you get the 17-18 dB swings with performances like the Firebird suite.  Being distracted and adjusting volume based on a pianissimo beginning can have disconcerting consequences.
> 
> I wonder if what you're experiencing is not rather related to a higher absolute volume with the 281 vs the 200.
> 
> Anyway, as I'm also a big fan of classical music and an owner of a V200 I'm following this with a lot of interest and I'll be curious to read about Xaval's experience with the 220.  I'm not getting into the boat as one more amp would make my wife pack her bags and also because -strictly a matter of taste- I prefer a 'lighter' and more detailed touch than the Violectric family seems to offer.




I agree with your opinion that the dynamic range of a recording is inbuilt into the recording by the recording team, and that it cannot be altered. However, the recording has to be amplified to produce sound from one's headphones, and different amps are obviously reproducing that amplification very differently. My new V281 (in balanced mode) sounds very different to my V200 amp (when driving my HD800 headphones in a single-ended manner), and the differences don't only relate to one's mental perception of the "perceived" dynamic range, but there is also a major change in my HD800's soundstaging ability and frequency balance. 

A number of forum members have commented that the V281, when used in balance mode, significantly widens the soundstage. I can now understand why they harbor that belief. I experienced a revelatory experience last night when I listened to a particular recording of Carl Orff's "Carmina Burana" - EMIs recording by the conductor Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgos (a CD can be purchased for <$10 from Amazon's second-hand dealers). The V281 (in balanced mode) produces a cavernous-sized soundstage (especially from front-to-back) that my V200 cannot reproduce. Feied (of Lake People) should use this particular CD-recording to highlight the ability of the V281 (in balanced mode) to produce a gigantic soundstage (using a CD player that features balanced outputs and also using the HD800 headphones, which are well-known to have an outstanding soundstaging capability).

Jeff.


----------



## JeffMann

project86 said:


> Jeff,
> 
> Quick question - are you connecting the XA5400ES via RCA cables or XLR?




I am using XLR.

Jeff.


----------



## project86

jeffmann said:


> I am using XLR.
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
  
 Thank you. I ask because I recall that particular player having some odd behavior in terms of output stage. The RCA output is a typical 2 Volts, but the XLR is also 2V rather than the customary 4V (or double whatever the single-ended RCA outs are). This tells me Sony did something weird there and it is not a "true" balanced output stage. I seem to recall they took the balanced signal, converted to single-ended, added some buffer stage, then converted back to balanced for XLR output. Also the output impedance is very different from RCA to XLR.
  
 Again, this is several year old information rattling around in my head, so I could be mistaken. But if true, you could be suffering from a bad match - the V281 is listed as having a 10kOhm input impedance, which is not all that high. Bottom line, I'd try the RCA outputs as well, and just see if it changes the performance for the better. Sounds like you are now coming to terms with the dynamic aspect but you did at one point mention "distortion" on the loud passages and that sounds wrong to me. 
  
 I could be totally confused (it happens) and maybe RCA will sound identical or even inferior. But it's worth the minimal effort to explore.


----------



## JeffMann

project86 said:


> Thank you. I ask because I recall that particular player having some odd behavior in terms of output stage. The RCA output is a typical 2 Volts, but the XLR is also 2V rather than the customary 4V (or double whatever the single-ended RCA outs are). This tells me Sony did something weird there and it is not a "true" balanced output stage. I seem to recall they took the balanced signal, converted to single-ended, added some buffer stage, then converted back to balanced for XLR output. Also the output impedance is very different from RCA to XLR.
> 
> Again, this is several year old information rattling around in my head, so I could be mistaken. But if true, you could be suffering from a bad match - the V281 is listed as having a 10kOhm input impedance, which is not all that high. Bottom line, I'd try the RCA outputs as well, and just see if it changes the performance for the better. Sounds like you are now coming to terms with the dynamic aspect but you did at one point mention "distortion" on the loud passages and that sounds wrong to me.
> 
> I could be totally confused (it happens) and maybe RCA will sound identical or even inferior. But it's worth the minimal effort to explore.




I have no insight into the Sony CD-player's internal electronic arrangements. I simply purchased the unit because it got such a favorable review from many reputable sources. I originally used the RCA outlets to connect to the V200. Then one day, I simply decided to use the XLR outputs to see if I could detect a difference, and I found that I much preferred the XLR outputs (even if they are not truly balanced). When I purchased the V281, I had no reason to go back to using the RCA outlets - especially considering the fact that I was enamored of the idea of driving my headphones using a balanced mode. 

I made a mistake to use the word "distortion" because I have experienced no evidence of electronically-induced sound distortion when using the V281. In the first few hours of use, I was driving the headphones to a very loud level and when I used the term "distortion" I really mean that the sound of the reproduced musical instruments was unaturally loud and unrealistic (distorting/altering the expected sound of the instrument). I am now using the V281-HD800 combo at a more realistic volume level and the sound coming from my headphones is definitely distortion-free. In fact, I am starting to detect more-and-more evidence of many refined musical microdetails that I have never heard before when previously playing some of my best recorded CDs using the V200 amp. I will continue to assess this V281 amp over the next few weeks before I try to summarize my personal impressions of its strengths/weaknesses - although my affection for the amp is growing exponentially with each passing hour of listening.

Jeff.


----------



## xaval

Thanks for the feedback JeffMann. Your feedback is a great testament to improvements over V200, as well as the scaling capability of the Sennies. Keep the feedback coming as you gather further findings.


----------



## Tony1110

Just picked my V281 up from the post office. Installing the USB drivers now. Will there be be any benefit to opening it up and altering the ground lift if I'm using a SE cable and the built in USB DAC?


----------



## roskodan

hehe, just get familiar with the stock sound first, than you can try setting the general ground lift jumper to GND, which i'm sure will yield an audible difference, especially if you find the treble on the hard side when set to the default LIFT position


----------



## shultzee

tony1110 said:


> Just picked my V281 up from the post office. Installing the USB drivers now. Will there be be any benefit to opening it up and altering the ground lift if I'm using a SE cable and the built in USB DAC?


 

 Congrats on a great amp!  Someday listen to it balanced.  Pretty amazing.


----------



## project86

roskodan said:


> hehe, just get familiar with the stock sound first, than you can try setting the general ground lift jumper to GND, which i'm sure will yield an audible difference, especially if you find the treble on the hard side when set to the default LIFT position


 
  
  
 This. Some people report big improvements, others struggle to hear any difference at all..... but you won't know unless you first familiarize yourself with the original sound prior to any changing.


----------



## Tony1110

Yeah I'm going to leave it as it is for the time being and get accustomed to the sound. Listening in SE mode with the pre-gain set to +6. It's leagues ahead of everything else I've heard. It'll be interesting to see how much further it can progress with the addition of a better DAC, a balanced cable and tweaking to the ground jumper. It's a wonderful amp though. I'd be happy with it even if the possibility of those potential upgrades didn't exist


----------



## project86

How high do you have the volume knob cranked? And what headphone? Just curious, as most of us don't find we need +6 on the pregain unless using HE-6 or playing really quiet recordings.


----------



## Tony1110

project86 said:


> How high do you have the volume knob cranked? And what headphone? Just curious, as most of us don't find we need +6 on the pregain unless using HE-6 or playing really quiet recordings.




HE-560 at about 12. I tried it as it came and that gave me a good scope on the volume dial. I tried -12 and that wasn't enough. +6 allows me to deceive myself that I'm not listening too loudly when in fact I am


----------



## shultzee

project86 said:


> How high do you have the volume knob cranked? And what headphone? Just curious, as most of us don't find we need +6 on the pregain unless using HE-6 or playing really quiet recordings.


 

 9:00 To 10:00   .   10:00 Is really pushing it.    Lcd-x running balanced.  Full volume on my mac source.


----------



## Tony1110

Does using the balanced output automatically set the pre-gain at a certain level?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Most headphones in balanced are never louder than 9 o'clock. The HE560 goes to 12 however


----------



## Tony1110

I've set the pre-gain to default and have the volume dial set at 2 o'clock. This really is a stunning amp.


----------



## xaval

Keep posting some feedback guys. Don't even know when my V220 is going to be assembled so this thread is all I have to listen to in this regard


----------



## rx79ez08

Wow, you guys are listening at quite high volume.
  
 I am using a HE560 with balanced output. With my DAC using a balanced output set at 100% volume, Foobar set at 100% volume, I am using a pre-gain of -12 and I rarely go above 9 - 10 o'clock.
  
 With the HE560 in the unbalanced output, I rarely get above 10 - 11 o'clock.
  
 With HD800 balanced, I usually listen at 8 - 9:30. With low impedance unbalanced headphones like TH900 and W3000 I rarely go above 8.


----------



## Revogamer

DAC output can make a big difference depending on the voltage it puts out too 
  
 You are using a VEGA? i have found they have quite high gain on both outputs - compared to most other DAC's i have tried.


----------



## Tony1110

You set it to -12 and use the SE output and rarely get above 10 -11 o'clock? When I was experimening with the pre-gain settings yesterday I tried -12 and decided it was way too quiet even with the volume notch cranked all the way up. Posts like that make me worry about the long-term future of my hearing. I got up to nearly 3 o'clock using the default setting before it started to sound too loud. All with the HE-560.


----------



## Tony1110

Yeah I'm starting to wonder if the DACs you guys use are the reason for such disparity between the volumes we're listening at. I'm using the built-in DAC module (which, incidentally sounds pretty damn good to my ears).


----------



## rx79ez08

The balanced output of Vega is high compare to a single ended DAC, but it is only 4 V compare to something like 2 V which is something like 3 dB.
  
 I do have the a USB build-in DAC fitted to my unit, but my desktop computer generally refuse to play nice with it, so I mainly use an external DAC. The internal DAC does have a weaker output, and I will probably need to go up roughly another 1-2 hours (i.e. if I listen at 9 with external DAC, I would go to 11 with the internal version).
  
 Just wondering, did you set the Windows and player volume to 100%.


----------



## Revogamer

Definately would be;
  
 I am comparing the VEGA to the NAD M51 both on single ended outputs side by side (on the ALO Studio Six) - the VEGA needs to be at around 80/100 volume to be similar to the NAD standard - it is quite a higher on 100; for HD800's it is around 11 o clock on the NAD and then around 8-9 on the Vega (don't need much volume at all)


----------



## Tony1110

rx79ez08 said:


> The balanced output of Vega is high compare to a single ended DAC, but it is only 4 V compare to something like 2 V which is something like 3 dB.
> 
> I do have the a USB build-in DAC fitted to my unit, but my desktop computer generally refuse to play nice with it, so I mainly use an external DAC. The internal DAC does have a weaker output, and I will probably need to go up roughly another 1-2 hours (i.e. if I listen at 9 with external DAC, I would go to 11 with the internal version).
> 
> Just wondering, did you set the Windows and player volume to 100%.




I've not had any problems with the DAC module which is a nice surprise after I learned that it uses the same Tenor chip as the Burson Conductor I owned in the past - that could be a real pain in the arse and the only remedy before they changed it themselves was a USB to SPDIF converter. I use WASAPI rather than ASIO.

Yes, I set JRiver and Windows volume to 100%.


----------



## rx79ez08

revogamer said:


> Definately would be;
> 
> I am comparing the VEGA to the NAD M51 both on single ended outputs side by side (on the ALO Studio Six) - the VEGA needs to be at around 80/100 volume to be similar to the NAD standard - it is quite a higher on 100; for HD800's it is around 11 o clock on the NAD and then around 8-9 on the Vega (don't need much volume at all)


 

 This is because the SE and balanced output of the Vega are both at 4 Vrms. I believe the SE output of the M51 is the standard 2 Vrms. That means you are effectively comparing a SE output of the M51 to that you would see normally expect in a balanced output.
 Which explain why you see the difference. But if you compare the balanced output of a M51 to that of a Vega, the output levels are about the same.


----------



## rx79ez08

tony1110 said:


> I've not had any problems with the DAC module which is a nice surprise after I learned that it uses the same Tenor chip as the Burson Conductor I owned in the past - that could be a real pain in the arse and the only remedy before they changed it themselves was a USB to SPDIF converter. I use WASAPI rather than ASIO.
> 
> Yes, I set JRiver and Windows volume to 100%.


 

 Interesting, your listen level is really quite loud then. Having said that, I think my general listen level is quite low in the first place.


----------



## Revogamer

rx79ez08 said:


> This is because the SE and balanced output of the Vega are both at 4 Vrms. I believe the SE output of the M51 is the standard 2 Vrms. That means you are effectively comparing a SE output of the M51 to that you would see normally expect in a balanced output.
> Which explain why you see the difference. But if you compare the balanced output of a M51 to that of a Vega, the output levels are about the same.


 
 I am aware, just showing a point of difference on a standard single ended output and why people would notice the volume difference compared to the NAD (or any other standard single ended DAC)

 Some may not be aware of the output differences, therefore the different levels of volume they are comparing - only fair to compare when the output voltage is the same.


----------



## uelover

Are there any comparison with other TOTL SS balanced amps such as the Headamp GS-X MK2 and Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold?


----------



## Megalomaniak

rx79ez08 said:


> Wow, you guys are listening at quite high volume.
> 
> I am using a HE560 with balanced output. With my DAC using a balanced output set at 100% volume, Foobar set at 100% volume, I am using a pre-gain of -12 and I rarely go above 9 - 10 o'clock.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Volume knob levels depend directly on how many VRMs does you DAC output.
  
 In my case, HE-560 were between 10 and 12:30 depending on the CD.
  
 And ah, HE-560 sounds impressive with this amp.


----------



## Ultrainferno

> And ah, HE-560 sounds impressive with this amp.


 
  
 The HE560 is actually the only headphone I prefer in SE on the V281, the HE-400i and all the other Hifiman's and Audeze headphones sound better in balanced
 Personal preference I guess


----------



## Tony1110

ultrainferno said:


> The HE560 is actually the only headphone I prefer in SE on the V281, the HE-400i and all the other Hifiman's and Audeze headphones sound better in balanced
> Personal preference I guess




Why is that?


----------



## xaval

Some people can't even find a difference between SE and Balanced... I sometimes wonder if it's the "quality" of the output that is the most determinant factor... as in "which input is better Optical or Coaxial"...


----------



## Frank I

xaval said:


> Some people can't even find a difference between SE and Balanced... I sometimes wonder if it's the "quality" of the output that is the most determinant factor... as in "which input is better Optical or Coaxial"...


 
 I have noticed differences in the  balanced section. Keep in mind therefore two V200 balanced in the V281 with an oversized power supply which gives it the power nandextension. if you use it single ended the amp really  becomes similar to the V200. I see a nice difference using this amp balanced. 
  
  I  prefer using my headphone balance with this amplifier all the time. I been listening daily now and really enjoy what the V281 is capable of doing. Greaat amplifier and well worth an audition.


----------



## Ultrainferno

tony1110 said:


> Why is that?


 
  
 I somehow prefer the "more body" of the SE in stead of the extra detail, sound stage and balanced sound on the HE560.
 It's not really amp related, it's just me and my HE560 relationship, I think it has enough of the before mentioned characteristics already


----------



## project86

I can see that - with the balanced out having more extension, that may sometimes expose aspects of a headphone you might not appreciate. So it makes total sense to me.


----------



## shultzee

xaval said:


> Some people can't even find a difference between SE and Balanced... I sometimes wonder if it's the "quality" of the output that is the most determinant factor... as in "which input is better Optical or Coaxial"...


 

 Trust me, you can tell a difference using se vs.  balanced on the v281/lcd-x combo.


----------



## lunz

shultzee said:


> Trust me, you can tell a difference using se vs.  balanced on the v281/lcd-x combo.


 
 Confirmed for LCD2.2 as well, I wasn't expecting to notice any real change. I'm happy to be wrong 
  
 Regarding the volume power, I am usually between 8 to 11 o'clock at +6dB, using internal DAC at 100%.


----------



## navigavi

navigavi said:


> For people interested in the v281 located in europe, the v281 is now also available on thomann. It's where I bought my v200/v800 combo. They're on stock, so delivery time should be short, depending on your exact location within europe.
> 
> http://www.thomann.de/gb/violectric_hpa_v281.htm
> 
> ...


 

 Response has arrived and the delivery time is 2 to 5 days and can be ordered with all possible options/specifications available. The default v281 (no dig. input option, no remote control) is about 1520 euro's.
  
 I've also decided to go the DIY route for my stock hd800 re-termination for going balanced. I think there's sufficient documentation on the subject on head-fi and youtube on how to do this. This service is also provided by lake people themselves for a very good price. I contacted them about this. If you don't have the tools and equipment for a DIY retermination job for balanced cables on a single ended cable, then it's a very good option to let lake people do your stock cable retermination.
  
 Going to place my order today or tomorrow. I'll post impressions or perhaps a review on a comparison between v200-v800 and v281-v800. Should be fun!


----------



## Tony1110

For EU buyers I recommend Heiko Boss at Audition-6. Great guy to deal with and he allows you to haggle a bit on the price. Very quick delivery too.


----------



## xaval

tony1110 said:


> For EU buyers I recommend Heiko Boss at Audition-6. Great guy to deal with and he allows you to haggle a bit on the price. Very quick delivery too.


 
 Heiko Boss is da BOSS!! He took care of me with the V220 and he's very professional and reasonable. Just got feedback from him and my amp/dac should be shipped to me today or tomorrow after being setup by Lake People team.
  
 I mean, seriously... go to Heiko before doing anything


----------



## JeffMann

I have noted that a number of forum members do not think that there is a significant difference between SE versus balanced mode when it comes to driving headphones with a V281. By contrast, I am discovering that the V281 (in balanced mode) is significantly better than my V200 with respect to my HD800 headphones. Now that my amp is more "burned-in" I can better describe these differences - when using my Sony 5400ES CD-player as my only sound source.
  
 Before I describe the differences in sound production, I will comment on two issues.
  
 When I originally used my new V281 I found that the loud orchestral passages sounded unnaturally loud (and even raucous) when I set the softer orchestral passages at a clearly discernible volume level. That problem has resolved itself - presumably as a result of the "burn-in" process because I have not changed my system. I can now set the softer orchestral sound level louder (which is my preference for a more "sitting in the front row" aural experience rather than a "sitting in the mid-hall" aural experience) and the loud passages are then very loud, but not unnaturally raucous.
  
 Secondly, project86 suggested that my Sony 5400ES is not really a balanced output device because it only produces 2V output at the XLR output jacks. I therefore performed the following experiment. I personally own two 5400ES CD-players so I connected the one (i) to the V281 with RCA connectors and the other one (ii ) with XLR connectors. I then played orchestral music with (i) and set the volume control at a comfortable listening level (with the pre-gain set at -6). I then listened to (ii)  playing the same CD/music with the volume control and pre-gain control at the same setting. The volume level produced by my HD800 phones was very similar suggesting that (ii) is not putting out more power/voltage than (i) - and I suppose that means that my CD-player is not a "pure" balanced CD-player. I was also able to confirm that I personally prefer the sound when using XLR cables between the CD-player and my V281 amp. I am a music-lover, and not an audiophile-expert, and I am looking for advice. Could I get even better sound if I use a fully ("pure) balanced CD-player rather than my Sony 5400ES CD-player? Which fully balanced CD-player would you recommend? As an alternative approach, as I love Vioelectric products, I could buy the V800 DAC and then buy a CD transport. Would this be an even better solution? Which CD transport would you recommend?
  
 Now, here is my *personal impression *of the V281 amp when used to drive my HD800 headphones in *balanced mode* - compared to my V200 amp, which obviously operates as a SE device.
  
 1) The biggest difference relates to the soundstaging. The soundstage is wider and deeper, and therefore more capacious (cavernous). The soundstage also sounds more unconstrained/borderless at its outer limits. Instrument (or voice) location in the soundstage is identical to my V200 and they both image wonderfully well with silent (black) backgrounds. However, the sound produced with the V281 is more full-bodied - presumably because the soundstage is bigger (and because there is no increased amount of "air" surrounding each instrument in the bigger soundstage). I can also discern significantly better clarity of each instrument/voice when playing complex musical passages eg. when listening to opera when a number of individual opera singers are singing at the same time while a male chorus and female chorus are simultaneously singing) with less auditory congestion (smearing of sounds). 
  
 2) The V281 amp also produces a greater dynamic range. When I set the volume control for a desired volume level for softer orchestral passages, then the loud orchestral passages are louder (when compared to my V200 experience). Also, the transition in sound levels from ppp => pf => fff is more seamless/effortless and more reminiscent of "live" orchestral music (when I sit in "front row" seats).
  
 3) The V281 can also produce very soft sounds (eg. plucked harp string, soft triangle strikes, castanet clicks, very soft kettle drum drumbeats) with greater clarity and a faster transient attack. When listening to the Mercury Living Presence "Balalaika Favorites" CD, I can more clearly hear each individual string-pluck with no overhang (no smearing/congestion) that more closely resembles "live" sound.
  
 4) The frequency balance is much better. My HD800 headphones are now very neutral sounding. The HD900 headphones have a reputation of having an over-exuberant treble balance and this is very apparent when I plug the headphones directly into either my Marantz 8001 or Sony 5400ES CD-player's inbuilt headphone jack. When I use the V200 between the CD-player and my headphones, the sound is much improved with much better soundstaging, far less congestion/smearing and a significant taming of the over-exuberant treble range so that there is only a hint of too much treble energy (eg, that produces slight sibilance in the upper range of soprano voices). When using the V281 amp, I can no longer detect any excess treble energy and the sound is very neutral and very natural throughout the frequency range. 
  
 5) The overall sound is very "pure" and less grainy. I listen to a lot of opera music and I have always noted that the sound produced by opera singers is less "pure" and slightly uneven/grainy (using my V200) compared to my considerable personal experience with hearing "live" opera at the Met (where I used to attend about 15-20 performances/year when I lived near NYC). The slight sense of graininess (uneven voice quality) that is still present when I use my V200 is not present when using my V281 amp and this is the first time in my 45 year history of being an ardent audiophile that I have achieved this delightful auditory result.
  
 Jeff.


----------



## shultzee

jeffmann said:


> I have noted that a number of forum members do not think that there is a significant difference between SE versus balanced mode when it comes to driving headphones with a V281. By contrast, I am discovering that the V281 (in balanced mode) is significantly better than my V200 with respect to my HD800 headphones. Now that my amp is more "burned-in" I can better describe these differences - when using my Sony 5400ES CD-player as my only sound source.
> 
> Before I describe the differences in sound production, I will comment on two issues.
> 
> ...


 

 Well done.  I think you nailed it between se and balanced.


----------



## daveyston23

jeffmann said:


> I have noted that a number of forum members do not think that there is a significant difference between SE versus balanced mode when it comes to driving headphones with a V281. By contrast, I am discovering that the V281 (in balanced mode) is significantly better than my V200 with respect to my HD800 headphones. Now that my amp is more "burned-in" I can better describe these differences - when using my Sony 5400ES CD-player as my only sound source.
> 
> Before I describe the differences in sound production, I will comment on two issues.
> 
> ...


 

 Awesome work Jeff.
  
 I've been using the Cyrus CD Transport lately in my chain (Cyrus CDT> DAC > V281 > LCDX) and I think it sounds fabulous. I auditioned the Musical Fidelity M1 CD Transport as well, but I thought the Cyrus was clearly better after only one A/B. If you can, I would recommend auditioning it or other Cyrus CD Players and transports. Too bad I need to return the Cyrus because it is having skipping issues.


----------



## xaval

Nice write up Jeff. Thanks for your input.
 I'm almost beginning to think I should've ordered the V281 instead of V220 and plan a recable process for my cans. This place is cursed 
  
 Just a couple of notes:
  
 1 - You could've used the V281 in SE also which probably would be a more direct comparison than V200 for the purpose of the test: SE vs BAL.
 2 - You already have a transport with the digital out of the Sony (it has them, right?).
  
 As for the DAC, I'm not sure if V800 is the best buy right now since there will be a pair of them coming out, presumably next year from Violectric: a slimmed down version and an upper model to V800. Probably best to wait? Your wallet should know best! Anyway, I'm sure some of the best DAC rollers will chime in with great input as always.


----------



## JeffMann

xaval said:


> Nice write up Jeff. Thanks for your input.
> I'm almost beginning to think I should've ordered the V281 instead of V220 and plan a recable process for my cans. This place is cursed
> 
> Just a couple of notes:
> ...




I could have compared the V281 in balanced mode to the V281 in SE-mode, but that would have required me to frequently change the cable connection to my headphones (or use a special adaptor), which was too great a hassle. Also, my personal opinions aren't intended to be a scientific study, but merely a personal reflection of how I perceive my headphones-sound has changed since getting the V281. I have owned the V200/HD800 combo for 3 years, so I can clearly remember how they sound using different types of music. I simply listened to some of my favorite classical/opera CDs using the V281 (in balanced mode) to drive my HD800 headphones, and I simply compared their sound to the *remembered* sound that I previously obtained when driving my headphones with the V200.

Jeff.


----------



## rx79ez08

Hey guys, is my listening volume very low or something.
  
 I just got a HE-6, with DAC (Auralic Vega, balanced output) and Foobar both at 100% volume, at pre-gain of -12 I am at roughly 11 - 12 o'clock. It is actually quite loud already.


----------



## Xenophon

I assume you're listening balanced on a 281.  Doesn't strike me as overly silent, with my HE-6 and pre-gain at 0 on my V200 I used to be at about 12, that gave me approximately correct reproduction (vs sitting in a concert hall) with classical music.


----------



## Nomax

I use The internal coax input and drive my ABYSS with pre gain setting +6db and Volume At one o clock(it's very loud)

NOMAX


----------



## PleasantSounds

What I find interesting and convenient, the volume from internal DAC (Coax) matches exactly (within 0.05dB) volume from Lynx Hilo, which is calibrated to 0dBV_(+-0.01dB). Makes comparisons very easy.
  
 The listening volume with HD800 at 0dB pregain is for me about 11. 
  
 Note that comparing the listening volume makes sense only if you can calibrate the source volume to the same level, as it can vary from album to album by as much as 15dB.


----------



## Megalomaniak

I also noted pages ago, that the main difference I noticed swapping from SE to BAL with my LCD-2s was the soundstage, clarity and body.
  
 With BAL mode, I get more soundstage and clarity, but the "bad" aspect of this, is you get a tad less body overall, with SE mode, everything sounds heavier as the result of being narrower.
  
 For me after months, I prefer the BAL mode on the LCD-2, I prefer SE mode on the HD800, BAL on HE-560, SE on DT880, K701 and Grados.
  
 Also note, HE-560 and LCD-2 have plenty of body on BAL mode (like crazy for sure), this amps gives them superpower bass/sub extension! HD800 has enough (even more than I would like) soundstage on SE so I want the extra body.
  
 BTW my listening levels are between 8 to 14, depending on the CD/SACD, Movie, etc. and headphone (from Denon AH-D7000 to LCD-2 to K701 to SR325is, etc.)
  
 Pre-gain at -6.


----------



## Tony1110

ultrainferno said:


> The HE560 is actually the only headphone I prefer in SE on the V281, the HE-400i and all the other Hifiman's and Audeze headphones sound better in balanced
> Personal preference I guess




I'm finding with the balanced out that the HE-560 retain most of their fullness. That seems to be a characteristic of the amp as they sounded a bit thin out of the Burson Soloist. It does, however, seem to be a little unforgiving of poorer recordings.


----------



## muah

Order placed.


Now for the hardest part.

 Waiting for the arrival of the brown box!


----------



## Tony1110

The urge to take it apart and mess with the jumpers is going to get the better of me soon. Has anyone done it yet?


----------



## Viper2005

tony1110 said:


> The urge to take it apart and mess with the jumpers is going to get the better of me soon. Has anyone done it yet?


 
 Not I... I'm loving the sound of the amp on default settings


----------



## PleasantSounds

tony1110 said:


> The urge to take it apart and mess with the jumpers is going to get the better of me soon. Has anyone done it yet?


 
  
 Since I had to install the DAC board myself, I had an excuse to open it. It's really easy: all you need is a hexagonal screwdriver. The fit and finish, layout and design really build confidence.
 While there, I also changed the ground lift jumper. I don't think it has changed much for the better, but at least there's no adverse effects either.


----------



## muah

As always during the 'wait' one tend to dream.

I didn't order the remote but was wondering if it is possible to still get a programmable remote control to switch the inputs of the V281 and/or mute?

Or if one doesn't order any remote function, some hardware is not included?


----------



## plakat

muah said:


> As always during the 'wait' one tend to dream.
> 
> I didn't order the remote but was wondering if it is possible to still get a programmable remote control to switch the inputs of the V281 and/or mute?
> 
> Or if one doesn't order any remote function, some hardware is not included?


 

 The actual IR receiver as well as the chip controlling the signals might only be part of one of the remote upgrade boards (or come with them), so not be part of the, so I guess there'll be no remote functionality at all without one of those boards. Just a guess though.


----------



## PleasantSounds

The infrared sensor appears to be installed in the base version, so possible that the logic is there as well.


----------



## plakat

Might be easy to check: the blue power led flickers when IR commands are received, even those that are not mapped. So any IR remote might help checking that.
 The one provided with the V281 remote option is called 'One For All' and looks like an off the shelf multi-device remote. Inputs react to buttons 1-3, so just try any TV remote I'd say.


----------



## xaval

If any of you v281 manage to cave in and open the box, please take some pics of the inside. In particular the back front plate. 
  
 The modder in me is rambling about of getting a "cheap" second hand v200 later (or just ask for a board from Lake People) and install it of my incoming v220 and build a ghetto v281.
 I'd like to have a view of the connectors... maybe I'll have to kill one of the SE outs and just have a bit of wire hanging out to connect the 4 pin XLR for balanced mode 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 edit: upon further analysis, v200 board is different from the top one on v281.


----------



## montanari

what about upgrading from the Burson Conductor with the conceroHD usb/spdif to a Violectric v281+ConceroHD dac..?
 I have lcd3F and I enjoy the Burson/Concero/Audeze combo very much
 but I m addicted
 Is it an improving, upgrade/sidegrade?
 do the HP open even more, with the same bass impact?
 is the same darkish family sound of V200?
  
 confused
 thanks
 D


----------



## plakat

xaval said:


> If any of you v281 manage to cave in and open the box, please take some pics of the inside. In particular the back front plate.
> 
> The modder in me is rambling about of getting a "cheap" second hand v200 later (or just ask for a board from Lake People) and install it of my incoming v220 and build a ghetto v281.
> I'd like to have a view of the connectors... maybe I'll have to kill one of the SE outs and just have a bit of wire hanging out to connect the 4 pin XLR for balanced mode
> ...


 

 Nice idea... but as Fried said the V220 and the main board of the V281 are identical (I think the AC transformer on the V281 base board is bigger though), but not identical to the V200. The upper board in the V281 is another V220 as I understand.
  
 But I think the V220 is a solid SE amp, no need to feel left behind just because the V281 exists.
  
 I did take some photos when I installed my USB board btw (which is giving me problems with both of my Macs tough):

  
  
 And today I cut the cable of my beloved T1, adding a F/M XL4 connector (so that is the original 1/4" connector has 30cm cable left and terminates with a male XL4, the headphone now has a female XL4 connector). Works beautifully and the V281 takes full control of the T1, exhibiting such a nice, kicking, vibrating, controlled bass... lovely. I love headroom.


----------



## fradoca

just doing the burn-in for an upcoming review


----------



## JeffMann

Two questions.
  
 1) I am under the impression that a Vioelectric amp (either V200 or V281) performs best if the pre-gain setting is chosen so that the volume control operates between 12 - 3 o'clock rather than 9 - 12 o'clock. Is that true? If true, how can one adjust the pre-gain setting for the V281 in balanced mode so that the volume control operates in the 12 - 3 o'clock range? If I choose a -12 pre-gain setting, my volume control never gets beyond 11:30 o'clock. Can I set the two negative gain settings simultaneously for a greater than -12 pre-gain setting?
  
 2) My V281 has a Jekyll-and-Hyde character when operating in balanced mode. At times, it sounds very smooth and natural/musical. At other times, it can sound more congested, with a discontinuous (non-smooth) frequency balance and dynamic balance. Does this imply there is something wrong with my V281 amp, or does it suggest a power line problem ("dirty" power)? Would my V281-based system sound better if I use a DC => AC power generator type of power conditioner or a balanced transformer type of power conditioner?
  
 Jeff.


----------



## saxelrod92

jeffmann said:


> Two questions.
> 
> 1) I am under the impression that a Vioelectric amp (either V200 or V281) performs best if the pre-gain setting is chosen so that the volume control operates between 12 - 3 o'clock rather than 9 - 12 o'clock. Is that true? If true, how can one adjust the pre-gain setting for the V281 in balanced mode so that the volume control operates in the 12 - 3 o'clock range? If I choose a -12 pre-gain setting, my volume control never gets beyond 11:30 o'clock. Can I set the two negative gain settings simultaneously for a greater than -12 pre-gain setting?
> 
> ...


 
 From what it sounds, you must have very sensitive headphones? If you are setting it at -12 pre-gain and still set the volume only to 11:30 then either you are extremely sensitive to loud sound, or have incredibly sensitive headphones. Even when I tried my denon d5000, which are my mose sensitive headphones, I can still push them to around 10 on default pre-gain, single ended. with my lcd-2 (and when I tested the hd800 and he-560) I found that if you can get it sounding at your preferred volume level with the knob between 11-2 then you get the most range of quiet end of perfect - loud end of perfect. and for the he-560 I had to use +6 pre-gain to achieve this, but I was only able to use single ended, so in balanced the default gain would be the same thing as +6 on single ended. So going to -12 pre-gain would be making it way too quiet for most full sized headphones.
  
 As for the other issues, I dont know enough about the affects of power to give an answer. I do know that the amps go through a very strict quality control, so the last thing to be causing the problem is the amp. and if it is, then thats a ridiculously rare occurence as far as I have learned from Arthur and Fried.


----------



## project86

jeffmann said:


> Two questions.
> 
> 1) I am under the impression that a Vioelectric amp (either V200 or V281) performs best if the pre-gain setting is chosen so that the volume control operates between 12 - 3 o'clock rather than 9 - 12 o'clock. Is that true? If true, how can one adjust the pre-gain setting for the V281 in balanced mode so that the volume control operates in the 12 - 3 o'clock range? If I choose a -12 pre-gain setting, my volume control never gets beyond 11:30 o'clock. Can I set the two negative gain settings simultaneously for a greater than -12 pre-gain setting?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 1) I don't see that as necessarily being true. If anything, turning the volume knob as high as possible will minimize any potential sonic impact of the attenuator. Violectric uses a nice Alps RK27 pot so there's not much of an issue there, but in theory the wide open volume is possibly better. Are you sure you're reading the instructions right for pre-gain settings? Seems wrong to have that much volume even at -12dB. 
  
 2) This could very well be just the nature of the recordings you play. Also, your source plays into this to some degree. Power conditioners are a touchy subject and I doubt you'll ever get 10 audiophiles to agree on them. I personally feel like some of the better ones (NOT necessarily the most expensive!) make a small improvement, but it's hard to quantify, and it's very hard to say if it will be the same for you - the power grid is different in every area.


----------



## Viper2005

project86 said:


> 1) Are you sure you're reading the instructions right for pre-gain settings? Seems wrong to have that much volume even at -12dB.


 
 Using my Yulong DA8 as pure DAC (Amp off) via balanced cables to V281, and with pre gain at -12, I can't get past 11:30 either with my LCD-X's without ear bleed.


----------



## xaval

plakat said:


> Nice idea... but as Fried said the V220 and the main board of the V281 are identical (I think the AC transformer on the V281 base board is bigger though), but not identical to the V200. The upper board in the V281 is another V220 as I understand.
> 
> But I think the V220 is a solid SE amp, no need to feel left behind just because the V281 exists.
> 
> ...


 
  
 DIY on the cable? Nice. The Sommer cable of the T1 seems to be extremely good, especially because it's also cheap. I like Sommer cables a lot and have an incoming Toslink Octopus to use with my V220.
 As for the conversion to XLR, it's a good practice to cut about 30cm from the 6.5 TRS connector. On the other short side you solder your female XLR connecter and have an instant SE cable to either test SE vs BAL and also to be used on non BAL amps. Saves time and cash 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And don't really feel left behind for the v220. It was a rational decision based on the fact that I don't want to recable all the cans that I have (and I'm yet to buy). But I'd like to settle down with this amp for a long time, though.
  
 What kind of issues are you experiencing with the USB board?
 I ordered the Toslink version because I antecipated some issues with the chip. Also, I prefer any connection to USB if I can help it... it's very rare to hear comments on how better USB is to the others. From recent reviews I remember Project86 commenting on how better the Tobby DAC is on USB, but it's rare to see this. Or maybe Project86 just was more thorough on his review than others, which he always is anyway.
  
 Thanks for the pics. The internal board of a v200 is quite different from any of the v281 boards. I'll see what's inside my V220 later as it just arrived to my office. I want to go home lol!
  


fradoca said:


> just doing the burn-in for an upcoming review


 
  
 Grazie! Looking forward to your impressions vs the Bryston and Phonitor.
  


jeffmann said:


> Two questions.
> 
> 1) I am under the impression that a Vioelectric amp (either V200 or V281) performs best if the pre-gain setting is chosen so that the volume control operates between 12 - 3 o'clock rather than 9 - 12 o'clock. Is that true? If true, how can one adjust the pre-gain setting for the V281 in balanced mode so that the volume control operates in the 12 - 3 o'clock range? If I choose a -12 pre-gain setting, my volume control never gets beyond 11:30 o'clock. Can I set the two negative gain settings simultaneously for a greater than -12 pre-gain setting?
> 
> ...


 
  
 1) Can you attenuate on the transport side? This would sort out the manageability of the attenuator. I'm sure I read Fried saying that ideally you'd have it playing as much closer to max as possible. I think the info is spread around the V200 and V800 threads.
 I use Audirvana on my Mac and that's where I use some attenuation as it's a part of the EQ profiles I build for my headphones.
  
 2) I have a power conditioner (nothing comercial, but well built) and some "audiophile" power cables. Although I don't like to post about this due to the inevitable discussions it originates (and yes, mostly is too expensive to what you get in return), I'll certainly play with them later on.
 I have no idea of the "intensity" of your Mr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde amp, but it's something that just happens. I mean, with a "small" intensity thing. I'm not sure if it's the power quality/stability, if it's the time of day as at night your listening room is a few dB lower than during the day allowing more stuff to be heard, or some kind of psychoacustic phenomena that occurs within ourselves and the hearing "apparatus".


----------



## plakat

xaval said:


> DIY on the cable? Nice. The Sommer cable of the T1 seems to be extremely good, especially because it's also cheap. I like Sommer cables a lot and have an incoming Toslink Octopus to use with my V220.
> As for the conversion to XLR, it's a good practice to cut about 30cm from the 6.5 TRS connector. On the other short side you solder your female XLR connecter and have an instant SE cable to either test SE vs BAL and also to be used on non BAL amps. Saves time and cash
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Regarding the cable: Yes, the Sommer cable is fine, I'm glad Beyerdynamic chose this and made this operation so easy. And yes, I do in fact now have a TRS to XL4 adapter as a byproduct (and to be able to use my A2 with the T1).
  
 The USB board acts like a buffer is running low, i.e. it starts out normal and after ~15sec its stuttering, then going quiet, then some seconds of distorted music / quiet etc. Happened on both my Apple laptops, 10.10 with and without Violectric drivers and on 10.6 with the Violectric driver. Maybe I'll just swap it for the Coax-board... plus I ordered a Benchmark DAC2 today 
  
 Do take some pictures of the V220 insides... as I understood Fried there should just be the upper board missing. Maybe you can more easily take a look at the front to see if the remote eye is installed (you ordered with no remote option, right?).
  
 I don't seem to have any other headphones that are easy to convert to balanced... the Fostexes seem to require a recabling. Maybe the T5p... might change it to the same Sommer cable in the process though as the short default cable is one of the reasons I hardly use it.


----------



## Byrnie

plakat said:


> Regarding the cable: Yes, the Sommer cable is fine, I'm glad Beyerdynamic chose this and made this operation so easy. And yes, I do in fact now have a TRS to XL4 adapter as a byproduct (and to be able to use my A2 with the T1).
> 
> The USB board acts like a buffer is running low, i.e. it starts out normal and after ~15sec its stuttering, then going quiet, then some seconds of distorted music / quiet etc. Happened on both my Apple laptops, 10.10 with and without Violectric drivers and on 10.6 with the Violectric driver. Maybe I'll just swap it for the Coax-board... plus I ordered a Benchmark DAC2 today
> 
> ...



You some headphones that I want to eventually get. I'm curious, of the amps you own what amp do you prefer with the T5P, T1, and TH900?


----------



## plakat

byrnie said:


> You some headphones that I want to eventually get. I'm curious, of the amps you own what amp do you prefer with the T5P, T1, and TH900?


 

 I have yet to test the TH900 with the V281, but that (or the V220 of course) might be a nice amp for a really wide range of headphones and might therefore be my choice if I had to choose one. The Phonitor might be the other option, or, if budget is lower, the Meier Audio Classic.
  
 While I like the A2 very much for all Beyerdynamic headphones I have it's not the cheapest option when looking at the feature set (I don't need a preamp, therefore the A2 is fine. Others might want that though...). The smaller brother A20 does in my opinion not play that nice with lower impedance phones like the TH900.
  
 The HP-A8 is a good companion to the TH900 -- as is to be expected. Did not like the T1 too much with it though, its slightly dry nature that matches well with the robust bass of the TH900 was not the perfect signature for the T1 (or, even more so, the T5p).
  
 I'll try my T5p with the V281 in the next few days and expect them to match well. While the V281 is missing the slightly warm touch the V200 has its still good at presenting bass and might help the T5p there.


----------



## Byrnie

plakat said:


> I have yet to test the TH900 with the V281, but that (or the V220 of course) might be a nice amp for a really wide range of headphones and might therefore be my choice if I had to choose one. The Phonitor might be the other option, or, if budget is lower, the Meier Audio Classic.
> 
> While I like the A2 very much for all Beyerdynamic headphones I have it's not the cheapest option when looking at the feature set (I don't need a preamp, therefore the A2 is fine. Others might want that though...). The smaller brother A20 does in my opinion not play that nice with lower impedance phones like the TH900.
> 
> ...



Great info and thank you!


----------



## xaval

plakat said:


> Regarding the cable: Yes, the Sommer cable is fine, I'm glad Beyerdynamic chose this and made this operation so easy. And yes, I do in fact now have a TRS to XL4 adapter as a byproduct (and to be able to use my A2 with the T1).
> 
> The USB board acts like a buffer is running low, i.e. it starts out normal and after ~15sec its stuttering, then going quiet, then some seconds of distorted music / quiet etc. Happened on both my Apple laptops, 10.10 with and without Violectric drivers and on 10.6 with the Violectric driver. Maybe I'll just swap it for the Coax-board... plus I ordered a Benchmark DAC2 today
> 
> ...


 
 Are you using an external HDD to source the music files? This can cause problems with the data flowing in and out of 2 USB ports simultaneously.
 Sometimes energy saver mode can also generate problems. Uncheck all boxes and reboot.
 I didn't even know that you have Mac drivers? The chipset is even trickier than I expected!
  
 If you also have a coax board (you bought 2 boards??!) I'm not sure you can use it unless you have a converter box.
 The source for the stuttering could be tough to clear assuming it's even fixable. I'm yet to upgrade the SO as I'm still with Mountain Lion... works fine 
  
 I think the Fostexes and the K812 will require a recable for balanced mode operation.
  
 I'll take some internal pics soon. I'll let the amp ride stock for the time required for my brain and the electronics to settle down and then play a bit with the internals.


----------



## plakat

xaval said:


> Are you using an external HDD to source the music files? This can cause problems with the data flowing in and out of 2 USB ports simultaneously.
> Sometimes energy saver mode can also generate problems. Uncheck all boxes and reboot.
> I didn't even know that you have Mac drivers? The chipset is even trickier than I expected!
> 
> ...


 

 No, no other USB devices active... Yes, they offer Mac drivers. I did not verify if the system actually uses it (if installed) as Core Audio seems to recognize it without additional drivers. Not the end of the world, but I'd like to know why it does that.
  
 No, I just ordered the USB board. But maybe I'll get the COAX-Board and swap them. Yes, there is only room for one of those.
  
 I might consider recabling the Fostexes, but not the K812 (which would definitely need a new cable since the Lemo-connector is only 3-pin). I've lived with single ended amps all my life... I think I can get over that


----------



## xaval

These 24-192 boards have only a couple of months of life, maybe Fried can come around and post some details about what possibly could be going on. Apparently the problem is not Yosemite related (which came out after the boards) as per your case it appears to also be an issue with Snow Leopard... I have an SL and ML rigs but no USB board to play with 
  
 Just noticed you ordered and DAC2 also? You're on a roll 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
 I hope to hold on to the internal DAC as the one box solution is very convenient for me. Love the shoebox design as I can sit it aligned with the case of the Mac Pro.
  
 I'll try also some of my remotes at home and check if I have an active sensor. I didn't order any of the pot "upgrades". I'll lol a bit if I can manage to get a "free" remote to work here, although I have 0 need for it.


----------



## JeffMann

project86 said:


> 1) I don't see that as necessarily being true. If anything, turning the volume knob as high as possible will minimize any potential sonic impact of the attenuator. Violectric uses a nice Alps RK27 pot so there's not much of an issue there, but in theory the wide open volume is possibly better. Are you sure you're reading the instructions right for pre-gain settings? Seems wrong to have that much volume even at -12dB.
> 
> 2) This could very well be just the nature of the recordings you play. Also, your source plays into this to some degree. Power conditioners are a touchy subject and I doubt you'll ever get 10 audiophiles to agree on them. I personally feel like some of the better ones (NOT necessarily the most expensive!) make a small improvement, but it's hard to quantify, and it's very hard to say if it will be the same for you - the power grid is different in every area.




I surely cannot possibly be making a mistake in setting the pre-gain settings if I only push the leftmost slider (under the -12) upwards to the on-setting. When I set the pre-gain at 0, then my volume control is roughly between 9-10 o'clock. When I set it at -6, the volume control is roughly between 10-11 o'clock and when I set it at -12, the volume control is roughly between 11-12 o'clock - always using my Sony 5400ES CD-player which has a "fixed" output.

The nature of the recording surely cannot be a significant factor - considering that the *same* CD-recording can sound very differently when I play it at different times of the day at the same volume control level. At times, it sounds superb and at other times the sound is very deficient.

Jeff.


----------



## JeffMann

xaval said:


> DIY on the cable? Nice. The Sommer cable of the T1 seems to be extremely good, especially because it's also cheap. I like Sommer cables a lot and have an incoming Toslink Octopus to use with my V220.
> As for the conversion to XLR, it's a good practice to cut about 30cm from the 6.5 TRS connector. On the other short side you solder your female XLR connecter and have an instant SE cable to either test SE vs BAL and also to be used on non BAL amps. Saves time and cash
> 
> And don't really feel left behind for the v220. It was a rational decision based on the fact that I don't want to recable all the cans that I have (and I'm yet to buy). But I'd like to settle down with this amp for a long time, though.
> ...




I also remember that Fried made that claim in the V200 thread. 

My Sony 5400ES CD-player has a "fixed" output through the analog outputs. 

My listening room is always quiet and I even turn off my gas furnace (which blows heated air through ducts) when I listen to music. I am skeptical regarding the "psychoacoustic phenomenon" theory when it comes to this clearly discernible difference.

Jeff.


----------



## xaval

Jeff,
  
 Concerning problem one, please refer to this link below. No affiliation or whatever. Could be a solution for the high output of your CD player.
 http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0803/rothwell.htm
  
 As for problem two, at the moment I don't think I can help much else. When I talked about the psychoacustic phenomena I wasn't calling you crazy or anything of the sort. My first language is not english and although I like to think I can actually entail a conversation sometimes it may come out "wierd". I meant that the perceived quality of the same system, especially a high resolving one, is not constant, as our hearing is not also the same (our brain sometimes plays tricks on us). If you experience severe alterations of perceived quality, I'd wage that the electronics of the amp are still settling down - I'd wait until at least 100 hours of listening are done before thinking about a defective product. I've had these experiencies myself more than once. It may come out strange or ilogical, but my HFI-780 took 400 hours to finish burn in.


----------



## plakat

xaval said:


> These 24-192 boards have only a couple of months of life, maybe Fried can come around and post some details about what possibly could be going on. Apparently the problem is not Yosemite related (which came out after the boards) as per your case it appears to also be an issue with Snow Leopard... I have an SL and ML rigs but no USB board to play with
> 
> Just noticed you ordered and DAC2 also? You're on a roll
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, I planned for the DAC2 since August, actually longer than contemplating the V281... but after I met Fried in person and heard this fine amp I rearranged the queue a bit  Plus I never intended to use the DAC2 as an all-in-one (I'll still get the HGC version, not the DAC-only), so an amp is welcome anyway.
  
 The internal DAC would nevertheless be nice for a quick solution... might well be solvable with a driver update I guess.
 Let us know how it goes with the remote... switching inputs might well be possible I think. If the IR sensor is present at all.
  
 Just connected my TH900 to the V281 for the first time... this will not become my new standard. Never heard a powerful bass like this, but its a bit too thick for me. Somewhat impressive, deep reaching and massive, but simply too much for my taste. Might qualify as a high-class basshead-system though. I think I'll spare me the work of recabling them for balanced mode...
  
 Edit: the V281 + T5p is much more to my taste, giving the T5p a bit of body, quite impressive actually.


----------



## fradoca

Some early thoughts.I've been using headphones for 17 years for audio mastering,audio satellite broadcasting,quality control and critical listening sessions.So i'm not an audiophile.
 Usually i tend to build a system around a headphone as i did for the hd800 with the hpba2 by qes labs, for the lcd-x with the bryston(they're like bread and butter) all of them driven in balanced mode.
 The V281 is really a fantastic amp especially in balanced mode.Neutral and powerful.Well suited with for orthos like Hifiman or dynamics like the hd600 and hd800 because of its very sligthly warm tone.
 I hope that getting a new power cord from my cable-man the performance steps even higher as it's been with all his other power cables on my dac and other amps i own.
 I've bought it because i needed a more powerful amp than the bryston just to be sure that i can drive headphones like hifiman and abyss if i want to review them for my website.
 I think this is a step up from the V200.So buy it with confidence especially if you need a powerful built like a tank neutral headphone amplifier.


----------



## JeffMann

xaval said:


> Jeff,
> 
> Concerning problem one, please refer to this link below. No affiliation or whatever. Could be a solution for the high output of your CD player.
> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0803/rothwell.htm
> ...




Thanks for the link to the inline attenuator. I empirically prefer to avoid using an additional electronic component in the sound system chain if I can avoid it and I will simply accept the situation that exists. I am willing to wait a few hundred hours for the V281 to become fully "burned-in" and hopefully this problem will disappear.

Jeff.


----------



## xaval

Plakat, re the dac issues, which player are you using?
I use Audirvana+ ans one thing that could help is increasing the buffer size. Allocating more memory for tracks preloads the entire file, or files, into the ram. Maybe this could help 

I had to open the box but the pics were terrible. Quite different from v281. No remote facility also.


----------



## plakat

@xaval To me it sounds like a driver buffer problem... I'll take a look at Audirvana, maybe they do allow to set driver buffer size. I don't think disc access is the problem (*all* other DACs work without showing anything like this problem), so preloading track data might not change anything I guess. But thanks anyway, I'll look into it.


----------



## alvinmate

Hi Guys,
  
 Did anyone had a chance to compare V281 with Ragnarok....how they stack up against each other?
  
  
 Thanks


----------



## mulder01

alvinmate said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Did anyone had a chance to compare V281 with Ragnarok....how they stack up against each other?
> 
> ...


 

 I was wondering the same thing...
 I went out and bought a v281 but wondered if I should have waited for the Ragnarok... Hope not


----------



## Tony1110

There's always something newer around the corner. Schiit seem to have built up a cult-like following around here so you'll probably be reading lots of comments about how great the Ragnarok is once they start shipping. My guess is that the V281 will stack up quite nicely - although I expect this thread will remain relatively quiet.


----------



## navigavi

In the meanwhile I placed my order for a black front v281, gold feet (to match my v800). This weekend I reterminated my hd800 and also made an adaptor so I can keep using my v200 with it.
  
 For anyone looking to reterminate the hd800 stock cable, make sure you have a good wirestripper. The inner wires are so small, none of the openings in my wirestripper where small enough to strip the wire. Also the isolation material in the smalles wires is very hard to separate/cut from the wire. I had to burn it to remove it.
  
 The hd neutrik plugs (male and female) are really solid, a nice piece of quality. All the equipment for the retermination plus the neutrik plugs cost me about 80 euro's. Thats a lot less than the balanced xlr cables from sennheiser (those are about 300 dollars?).
  
 Now it's waiting for the delivery...Good thing I still have the v200


----------



## plakat

tony1110 said:


> There's always something newer around the corner. Schiit seem to have built up a cult-like following around here so you'll probably be reading lots of comments about how great the Ragnarok is once they start shipping. My guess is that the V281 will stack up quite nicely - although I expect this thread will remain relatively quiet.


 

 Yes, I think so too... The V281 (and I guess the Ragnarok) is in a class of equipment where every word looks like an exaggeration. I don't think there is a difference in quality, just preference. And while I very much appreciate what Jason and Schiit are doing, I still like the fact that there are other people working with equal passion, producing excellent equipment.


----------



## Xenophon

tony1110 said:


> There's always something newer around the corner. Schiit seem to have built up a cult-like following around here so you'll probably be reading lots of comments about how great the Ragnarok is once they start shipping. My guess is that the V281 will stack up quite nicely - although I expect this thread will remain relatively quiet.


 

 +1, sometimes you just have to jump (and hope the chute deploys   But I'm also curious about the Rag, will be reading Project86's reviews with a lot of interest, he's seen a lot of gear and is far beyond the 'latest toy' hype.  If it weren't so hard to set up an audition I'd go and test the 281 too even though I don't intend to purchase it and trade up from my V200 or my speaker amps.  Don't think you can go wrong with the Vio amps, it's more of  a chocolate vs strawberry thing at this point.


----------



## xaval

plakat said:


> Yes, I think so too... The V281 (and I guess the Ragnarok) is in a class of equipment where every word looks like an exaggeration. I don't think there is a difference in quality, just preference. And while I very much appreciate what Jason and Schiit are doing, I still like the fact that there are other people working with equal passion, producing excellent equipment.


 
 ... and thinking about desktop listening. The Rag is huge!
  
 edit: user feedback on the Rag indicates that the headphone out in single ended is nothing to write home about. I don't seem to sense this kind of feedback with the V281.


----------



## Byrnie

xaval said:


> ... and thinking about desktop listening. The Rag is huge!
> 
> edit: user feedback on the Rag indicates that the headphone out in single ended is nothing to write home about. I don't seem to sense this kind of feedback with the V281.



Agreed.


----------



## Tony1110

xaval said:


> ... and thinking about desktop listening. The Rag is huge!
> 
> edit: user feedback on the Rag indicates that the headphone out in single ended is nothing to write home about. I don't seem to sense this kind of feedback with the V281.




Yep. I wouldn't know where to put the Ragnarok in my house. The V281 isn't exactly tiny either mind. I'm finding the more I listen that the differences between SE and balanced are pretty significant but not necessarily better one way or the other - at least with the HE-560. For detail, soundstage and separation, balanced is best, but mids can seem somewhat distant and SE is possibly fuller sounding too. Ultrainferno had a point. For some music, SE is better, with these headphones at least. I'm wondering if the benefits of the balanced output would be better illustrated with high impedance headphones like T1 and HD800.


----------



## xaval

Tony, not being V200 tiny, the V220/V220 is not that big. I think the shoe box design is quite fortunate as desktop gear is concerned. It sits nicely either along a desktop computer case or on top of a desk. The latter could be a bit problematic under certain scenarios, though, as the box is deep, but on a desk that sits on a room corner I don't see it being to much of a big deal.


----------



## gebo

Has anyone of the V281 owners critically tested the line-outs yet? I am especially interested in how you judge and describe the sound quality of the XLR (balanced) outs in "post-fader mode".
 This is important to me, as I want to use the V281 not only as headphone-amplifier but also as pre-amp for my active speakers (Neumann KH 120, as DAC I use Violectric's V800).
 I really appreciate your comments on this matter. Thanks!


----------



## alvinmate

Hi Guys,
  
 Thanks for sharing your thoughts and providing some good points as well. I was in a dilemma  which one I should get but I think I will settle for V281 as size wise this is pretty good compared to Rag and I don't intend to run active speakers from this unit either... Reading from all the impressions so far it pairs up very well with all the popular headphones including HD800 which I will be ordering as a bundle. I have Grado RS2e at the moment....great and fun sounding headphone...
  
 I currently have Rega Apollo R CD player as a source and will be getting Pono music player soon as this may become my digital... hope this combo will be perfect with my V281
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.........


----------



## plakat

xaval said:


> ... and thinking about desktop listening. The Rag is huge!
> 
> edit: user feedback on the Rag indicates that the headphone out in single ended is nothing to write home about. I don't seem to sense this kind of feedback with the V281.


 

 As I remember from reading the Schiit-thread the Ragnarok seems to have a quite different circuit design, while the V281 is simply 2x 220. I had the impression (and I hope that I don't mix up two Schiit models here) that the SE output is more a concession than part of the design (as it is with the V281). I think, the Ragnarok is squarely aimed at balanced, while the V281 does both, simply due to design decisions.


----------



## Megalomaniak

gebo said:


> Has anyone of the V281 owners critically tested the line-outs yet? I am especially interested in how you judge and describe the sound quality of the XLR (balanced) outs in "post-fader mode".
> This is important to me, as I want to use the V281 not only as headphone-amplifier but also as pre-amp for my active speakers (Neumann KH 120, as DAC I use Violectric's V800).
> I really appreciate your comments on this matter. Thanks!


 
  
 I do indeed use my V281 as preamp, using passive JBL speakers and the Technics SU-Z45 vintage 75 watt amplifier, which sounds very neutral.
  
 V281's outputs have that full musically live sound too as the front jacks/xlr


----------



## project86

megalomaniak said:


> I do indeed use my V281 as preamp, using passive JBL speakers and the Technics SU-Z45 vintage 75 watt amplifier, which sounds very neutral.
> 
> V281's outputs have that full musically live sound too as the front jacks/xlr


 
  
  
 Agreed! Musical and Live is a great way of describing it, either through the headphone outs or as a preamp. 
  
 I've used mine with Adam Audio F5 active monitors, Serene Audio Talisman powered single-driver desktop speakers, and briefly in my main system with Ghent Audio ICEpower monoblocks driving Sjofn Clue monitors. All sounded great.


----------



## PleasantSounds

megalomaniak said:


> I do indeed use my V281 as preamp, using passive JBL speakers and the Technics SU-Z45 vintage 75 watt amplifier, which sounds very neutral.
> 
> V281's outputs have that full musically live sound too as the front jacks/xlr


 
  
 Trying the XLR outs to feed my speakers (Yamaha HS8) has been on my to-do list ever since I got the V281. Seeing the positive comments here I had to try it, even though I have been quite pleased with Lynx Hilo handling this duty. 
  
 Today I finally did it. The first impression is surprisingly good. The sound seems to have more body, without losing any accuracy or slam. More testing will follow, but I have a feeling that the V281 will have one more duty from now on.


----------



## LFC_SL

Aside from project anyone else compared vio to auralic


----------



## mulder01

So for those of us without active speakers, has anyone tried running a pair of speakers off the headphone outputs?
  
 I watched Currawong's video review of the ALO Studio Six on youtube a little while ago and in it, he says that ALO had been running speakers off an adapter through one of the quarter inch headphone jacks.
  
 Here is a link to the correct point in the video:
  

  
 So I figured since the v281 had plenty of power that this might be an acceptable solution for a small set of bookshelf speakers.  In the V281 manual it says that the load on the amp can vary from 8-2000 ohms and didn't mention any negative effects of driving a load with too lower impedance.
  
 Is there any reason anyone can think of that this SHOULDN'T be done?  Is there a possibility for damage to the amp if the speaker impedance is too low?  Or would it just decrease your maximum volume?  Any thoughts?


----------



## Ultrainferno

So far I like every single bit of the V281. Beyerdynamic's A2 sounds great too but doesn't work as well with all the planars


----------



## plakat

mulder01 said:


> Is there any reason anyone can think of that this SHOULDN'T be done?  Is there a possibility for damage to the amp if the speaker impedance is too low?  Or would it just decrease your maximum volume?  Any thoughts?


 
  
 The V281 has a current limiter, so it should not be damaged by driving rather low impedance loads. However that limiter might have a negative impact on dynamics if engaged, its more to avoid damage to the amp.
  
 If the manual states a minimum load impedance of 8Ohm I would at least not go below that. Plus it should only (if ta all) be tried using the single ended output, balanced needs double that impedance (as each amp "sees" only halve the load impedance). The output power given in balanced mode with 16Ohm load is ~1,5W... you won't get too far with that when driving speakers, dynamics will compress rather soon I guess.
  
 So in short: possible: maybe. good idea: no.


----------



## daveyston23

lfc_sl said:


> Aside from project anyone else compared vio to auralic


 

 I didn't compare them in any great depth, however, I had an issue with a loud noise floor when using the taurus to drive LCD X in balanced mode. My local dealer allowed me to try 3 taurus units and all of them exhibited a noise floor problem with the X. Interestingly, all 3 units (including 2 brand new ones from the same batch) exhibited a problem in different ways, which might say something about auralic's quality control. In the end, I gave up on the taurus and picked up the V281 which has no such issues when driving the relatively sensitive LCD X.


----------



## JeffMann

I was having an occasional problem with distorted sound in my system (Sony 5400ES => V281 => HD800 headphones), which I now believe was due to episodic malfunctioning of my Sony CD-player. I have therefore decided to replace my Sony CD-player with a PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport (which I purchased for 50% of the listed price), which means that I now need a DAC. I originally favored the idea of purchasing a Vioelectric V800 DAC, but the design is outdated (according to some people) and I cannot wait for their "new" V800 unless I temporarily use their coax-based 24/192 adaptor in my V281. How good is that adaptor relative to a V800 (and competitive DACs)? Alternatively, I could purchase an Anedio D2 DAC or Questyle CAS192D DAC (both of these DACs received positive reviews from project 86)? What do you think of these two DACs? I specifically like the fact that the Anedio D2 has an ability to decrease the output voltage even when used in balanced mode because I likely want to use a DAC in balanced mode (which means an output voltage of 4V rather than the 2V put out by my Sony 5400ES) and I already have a problem that I cannot get my V281's volume control beyond 11:30 o'clock using a -12 pre-gain V281 setting. The Questyle CAS192D puts out 4.8 V through its balanced output, which will likely be a problem in terms of matching it with my present setup. Any advice will be appreciated.

Jeff.


----------



## xaval

I believe it was me who didn't advise the V800, however, not because it was outdated, simply because it should be refreshed sometime next year - if target dates don't actually slip as has been the case with the V220/V281 which were anounced to be soon released during 2012.
  
 This said, the V800 should still be a contender, as well as the internal board which, as posted by some users, as well as Fried, is not on par with the V800; as it should be given the price difference. Of course, the internal DAC board does not run balanced, but shouldn't also offer voltage "mismatching".
  
 Personally, I went with the internal DAC board because it would be a one box solution with my Mac Pro playing the transport in the office. However, I do plan next year to upgrade to a highish standard DAC... eventually one of the 2 Vio DACs.
  
 Besides Project86 there's another user with both V800 and 24/192 board. Loads of DACs outhere to chose from.


----------



## mulder01

plakat said:


> The V281 has a current limiter, so it should not be damaged by driving rather low impedance loads. However that limiter might have a negative impact on dynamics if engaged, its more to avoid damage to the amp.
> 
> If the manual states a minimum load impedance of 8Ohm I would at least not go below that. Plus it should only (if ta all) be tried using the single ended output, balanced needs double that impedance (as each amp "sees" only halve the load impedance). The output power given in balanced mode with 16Ohm load is ~1,5W... you won't get too far with that when driving speakers, dynamics will compress rather soon I guess.
> 
> So in short: possible: maybe. good idea: no.


 
  
 The manual doesn't so much specify a minimum impedance load, rather it's just mentioned that headphones can present a load between 8-2000 ohms.  
  
 The v281 manual is kinda a cross between a manual and promotional booklet that explains why everything is made the way it is - this impedance was mentioned in a section explaining why the pre gain switches are there.
  
 Is there a difference (in the amp's eyes) between 8 ohm speakers and 8 ohm headphones?


----------



## PleasantSounds

mulder01 said:


> [..]
> 
> Is there a difference (in the amp's eyes) between 8 ohm speakers and 8 ohm headphones?


 
  
 No difference at all. You can try the speakers if you're so inclined. 
 However a $30 amp may do a better job.


----------



## mulder01

pleasantsounds said:


> No difference at all. You can try the speakers if you're so inclined.
> However a $30 amp may do a better job.


 
 a $30 amp?  really?  why?


----------



## PleasantSounds

mulder01 said:


> a $30 amp?  really?  why?


 
  
 It won't be limiting current at moderate volumes, leading to thin sound and distortions.
 But give it a go: if your speakers are efficient enough, for moderate volume levels you may not need more power than V281 can deliver.


----------



## mulder01

pleasantsounds said:


> It won't be limiting current at moderate volumes, leading to thin sound and distortions.
> But give it a go: if your speakers are efficient enough, for moderate volume levels you may not need more power than V281 can deliver.


 
  
 Ah right, I'm just thinking of a pair of small bookshelf speakers at relatively low volume.  
  
 I used to have an old home stereo with a power output meter on the amp.  Even 1 watt into large floorstanding speakers was really quite loud.  Normal general listening volume was WAY under 1 watt.  I was just thinking of having a pair of speakers on my desk that I could use for general use so I don't have to use my headphones all the time.  I would imagine even 1 watt of power would be ample for what I was thinking of doing.  Only one way to find out I suppose!


----------



## Viper2005

xaval said:


> Of course, the internal DAC board does not run balanced, but shouldn't also offer voltage "mismatching".




Wait, can you please explain? You mean I'm not getting true balanced output when using the internal board?


----------



## PleasantSounds

viper2005 said:


> Wait, can you please explain? You mean I'm not getting true balanced output when using the internal board?


 
  
 As far as I can tell, the pre-amp part of V281 is single ended. Looks like only the power amp is balanced. The giveaway is volume pot having only two sections.
  
 Balanced output out of DAC wouldn't make much sense as it would be promptly converted to single ended signal.


----------



## project86

jeffmann said:


> I was having an occasional problem with distorted sound in my system (Sony 5400ES => V281 => HD800 headphones), which I now believe was due to episodic malfunctioning of my Sony CD-player. I have therefore decided to replace my Sony CD-player with a PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport (which I purchased for 50% of the listed price), which means that I now need a DAC. I originally favored the idea of purchasing a Vioelectric V800 DAC, but the design is outdated (according to some people) and I cannot wait for their "new" V800 unless I temporarily use their coax-based 24/192 adaptor in my V281. How good is that adaptor relative to a V800 (and competitive DACs)? Alternatively, I could purchase an Anedio D2 DAC or Questyle CAS192D DAC (both of these DACs received positive reviews from project 86)? What do you think of these two DACs? I specifically like the fact that the Anedio D2 has an ability to decrease the output voltage even when used in balanced mode because I likely want to use a DAC in balanced mode (which means an output voltage of 4V rather than the 2V put out by my Sony 5400ES) and I already have a problem that I cannot get my V281's volume control beyond 11:30 o'clock using a -12 pre-gain V281 setting. The Questyle CAS192D puts out 4.8 V through its balanced output, which will likely be a problem in terms of matching it with my present setup. Any advice will be appreciated.
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
  
 V800 is by no means outdated in terms of sound quality. In features, well, maybe.... if you used USB for playback, you would maybe want to add on an asynchronous USB to SPDIF converter, giving you more coverage to play high-res music as well as possibly bumping up the sound quality over native USB. But considering the PS Audio PWT in play, you can use XLR or coaxial cable and have no issues there. 
  
 That said, Anedio D2 is a spectacular DAC, very linear and "clean" sounding. You'll get gobs of accuracy and detail, though some find it lacking in warmth (not me).
  
 I might stay away from the Quesyle considering the output voltage.


----------



## Tony1110

project86 said:


> V800 is by no means outdated in terms of sound quality. In features, well, maybe.... if you used USB for playback, you would maybe want to add on an asynchronous USB to SPDIF converter, giving you more coverage to play high-res music as well as possibly bumping up the sound quality over native USB. But considering the PS Audio PWT in play, you can use XLR or coaxial cable and have no issues there.
> 
> That said, Anedio D2 is a spectacular DAC, very linear and "clean" sounding. You'll get gobs of accuracy and detail, though some find it lacking in warmth (not me).
> 
> I might stay away from the Quesyle considering the output voltage.




I was looking at the Matrix X-Sabre but that too seems to have a problematic output voltage.


----------



## rx79ez08

pleasantsounds said:


> As far as I can tell, the pre-amp part of V281 is single ended. Looks like only the power amp is balanced. The giveaway is volume pot having only two sections.
> 
> Balanced output out of DAC wouldn't make much sense as it would be promptly converted to single ended signal.


 

 I disagree that balanced output from DAC is not beneficial. 
  
 The reason you want to go balanced is to reduce the common mode noise that can enter the system through the cable due to EMI and difference in ground potential. If you have balanced input into the system, you will by definition reduce the problem of common mode noise.
  
 Once it is inside the system where with proper design there should be good noise reduction / limitation / handling technique, and usually a solid ground, then noise should be at a minimal. In this case the requirement of balanced or unbalanced circuit is not as critical.
  
 The follow article give some further explanation of the difference between balanced and unbalanced signal:
 http://www.perreaux.com/blog/index.cfm/2012/2/27/Balanced-vs-Unbalanced-Audio


----------



## PleasantSounds

rx79ez08 said:


> I disagree that balanced output from DAC is not beneficial.
> 
> The reason you want to go balanced is to reduce the common mode noise that can enter the system through the cable due to EMI and difference in ground potential. If you have balanced input into the system, you will by definition reduce the problem of common mode noise.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey, don't get too excited. We were talking about the INTERNAL DAC. In that case the benefits of common mode noise rejection disappear. You're dealing with a 10cm connection within a well shielded chassis, not a 30m run along power cables.


----------



## roskodan

jeffmann said:


> I was having an occasional problem with distorted sound in my system (Sony 5400ES => V281 => HD800 headphones), which I now believe was due to episodic malfunctioning of my Sony CD-player. I have therefore decided to replace my Sony CD-player with a PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport (which I purchased for 50% of the listed price), which means that I now need a DAC. I originally favored the idea of purchasing a Vioelectric V800 DAC, but the design is outdated (according to some people) and I cannot wait for their "new" V800 unless I temporarily use their coax-based 24/192 adaptor in my V281. How good is that adaptor relative to a V800 (and competitive DACs)? Alternatively, I could purchase an Anedio D2 DAC or Questyle CAS192D DAC (both of these DACs received positive reviews from project 86)? What do you think of these two DACs? I specifically like the fact that the Anedio D2 has an ability to decrease the output voltage even when used in balanced mode because I likely want to use a DAC in balanced mode (which means an output voltage of 4V rather than the 2V put out by my Sony 5400ES) and I already have a problem that I cannot get my V281's volume control beyond 11:30 o'clock using a -12 pre-gain V281 setting. The Questyle CAS192D puts out 4.8 V through its balanced output, which will likely be a problem in terms of matching it with my present setup. Any advice will be appreciated.
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
 in the past there were folks misinterpreting the illustration in the manual of the pre-gain dip-switch settings, the position of the dip-switches is represented by the black portion (not the white),


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



  


  
 so for -12dB pre-gain all switches down except the -12 one which should be raised toward the ON label
  
 like this for -12

  
 only one dip-swich is allowed to be raised at a time, the same setting must be applied to both left and right channel
  
 all switches down would be the default 0dB pre-gain


----------



## JeffMann

project86 said:


> V800 is by no means outdated in terms of sound quality. In features, well, maybe.... if you used USB for playback, you would maybe want to add on an asynchronous USB to SPDIF converter, giving you more coverage to play high-res music as well as possibly bumping up the sound quality over native USB. But considering the PS Audio PWT in play, you can use XLR or coaxial cable and have no issues there.
> 
> That said, Anedio D2 is a spectacular DAC, very linear and "clean" sounding. You'll get gobs of accuracy and detail, though some find it lacking in warmth (not me).
> 
> I might stay away from the Quesyle considering the output voltage.




Thank you for your advice. I didn't think that the Vioelectric V800 was going to be deficient in terms of sound quality for my CD-playback device, but I was also thinking of subscribing to an online music service (eg. Tidal, which I saw reviewed at Innner Fidelity) and I presume that a more modern DAC design (like the Anedio) would be advantageous. I still don't know how to go about choosing a music serving device that will allow me to use Anedio's asynchronous USB to SPDIF convertor. Anedio also offers a 2-week audition of their DAC for $49, which is very useful and I have decided to try it out. I also read in that long Anedio thread that the builder of Anedio's DAC can custom-modify the unit for less gain if necessary. I will probably discover whether that is necessary when I audition the DAC.

By the way, I must thank you tremendously for your major contribution to equipment reviews, and I would never have even heard of the V200 (which I bought 3 years ago after first discovering the V200 thread) or the Anedio/Questyle companies if I didn't diligently read your equipment reviews. 

Jeff.


----------



## JeffMann

roskodan said:


> in the past there were folks misinterpreting the illustration in the manual of the pre-gain dip-switch settings, the position of the dip-switches is represented by the black portion (not the white),
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...




Good photos and comments. I did initially get that right when I set my V281 for a pre-gain of -12. Interestingly, I am progressively discovering that I can set my V281 volume control to yet higher levels (now to 12 o'clock) with the progressive passage of time. I don't understand why this "burn in" type of phenomenon is happening. I still find that the quality of my headphones output sound is at its best later at night (eg. 10pm to 2am) and I wonder whether I have a "poor" power quality problem at other times of the day. I have empirically decided to purchase an Equitech Son of Q Jr. power conditioner to see whether that has any positive effect. 

Jeff.


----------



## roskodan

i thought so, it was just in case,
  
 also i always notice a substantial change in sound when the gear warm up, v200, soloist, especially discrete designs and tube gear, vs when it's just freshly turned on and still cold,
  
 so much i just have to warm it up before any session else it's just a torture, sitting down for a session and not being there yet XD, like everything coming together when it's nice warm, settled,
  
 it's quite a big deal when it comes to transparency, however it may be the other way around for some as well judging from the feedback i'm getting


----------



## Xenophon

jeffmann said:


> Good photos and comments. I did initially get that right when I set my V281 for a pre-gain of -12. Interestingly, I am progressively discovering that I can set my V281 volume control to yet higher levels (now to 12 o'clock) with the progressive passage of time. I don't understand why this "burn in" type of phenomenon is happening.* I still find that the quality of my headphones output sound is at its best later at night (eg. 10pm to 2am) and I wonder whether I have a "poor" power quality problem at other times of the day*. I have empirically decided to purchase an Equitech Son of Q Jr. power conditioner to see whether that has any positive effect.
> 
> Jeff.


 
 I also experience this and observed a remarkable correlation between perceived sound quality and the level of fluid remaining in my whisky glass, they seem to be inversely proportional.  Currently examining causality 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Joking aside, unless you live in the boonies or know for a fact that you have unreliable (and you would know, trust me, I lived in India for 6 years and you don't want to hear about electricity there) power supply then it's probably not helpful to buy a conditioner as the power gets conditioned in the amp.


----------



## Tony1110

roskodan said:


> i thought so, it was just in case,
> 
> also i always notice a substantial change in sound when the gear warm up, v200, soloist, especially discrete designs and tube gear, vs when it's just freshly turned on and still cold,
> 
> ...




+1. Letting the amp warm up makes quite a difference. The Conductor especially sounded awful if you didn't leave it running for an hour or so prior to listening.


----------



## plakat

mulder01 said:


> Ah right, I'm just thinking of a pair of small bookshelf speakers at relatively low volume.
> 
> I used to have an old home stereo with a power output meter on the amp.  Even 1 watt into large floorstanding speakers was really quite loud.  Normal general listening volume was WAY under 1 watt.  I was just thinking of having a pair of speakers on my desk that I could use for general use so I don't have to use my headphones all the time.  I would imagine even 1 watt of power would be ample for what I was thinking of doing.  Only one way to find out I suppose!


 

 I guess that output meter shows you sustained power, not real peak (which with normal music signal is about 4:1 vs. rated/sustained power). From the V281 manual I can't clearly see if the 1,5W @16Ohm is sustained or peak. If its the latter it might indeed not have enough power.
  
 Try it out but don't stress it, i.e. start out low: a clipping amp can kill a tweeter rather easily with non-harmonic distortion with rather high power. I'd be surprised if it sounded even decent at moderate levels.


----------



## Megalomaniak

daveyston23 said:


> I didn't compare them in any great depth, however, I had an issue with a loud noise floor when using the taurus to drive LCD X in balanced mode. My local dealer allowed me to try 3 taurus units and all of them exhibited a noise floor problem with the X. Interestingly, all 3 units (including 2 brand new ones from the same batch) exhibited a problem in different ways, which might say something about auralic's quality control. In the end, I gave up on the taurus and picked up the V281 which has no such issues when driving the relatively sensitive LCD X.


 
  
 I usually run my Denon AH-D7000, Grado SR80i, Grado SR325is and a friend and I tried the VSD1S plus the Pistons V2, pretty sensitive IEMs. 0 issues with them. Its one thing I love from this amp, connect what you want, its sound will be astonishing.


----------



## JeffMann

roskodan said:


> i thought so, it was just in case,
> 
> also i always notice a substantial change in sound when the gear warm up, v200, soloist, especially discrete designs and tube gear, vs when it's just freshly turned on and still cold,
> 
> ...




I habitually follow the same pattern of always warming up my equipment for 30-60 minutes prior to listening - by playing a CD at a lower listening volume.

Jeff.


----------



## nicooo

To all *Mac *users with the *internal USB-DAC card* installed:
  
 Starting with Yosemite (Mac OS X 10.10) Apple requires all kernel extensions (i.e. your DAC driver) to be signed. Unfortunately, Lake People / Violectric have not updated their driver with the right signature yet. As a consequence the driver will not be loaded by the OS and your music will sound funny to say the least. If you already updated to Yosemite and have no way to roll back to the old OS version you can circumvent the problem by disabling the signature check with the following procedure:
  
 - Open a terminal (open Spotlight and type "terminal", a text console will appear)
  
 - Type the following: *sudo nvram boot-args="kext-dev-mode=1"*
  
 - Press enter
  
 - Type in your admin/root password and press enter.
  
 The next time you plug in your Vio the driver should be correctly loaded (maybe reboot if not). You have to repeat this procedure after resetting the PRAM of the Mac.
  
 HTH,
 nicooo
  
 PS: When you look around the internet you will notice that Violectric isn't the only company without up to date drivers. Apparantly a lot of USB DACs suffer from the same problem since the drivers are usually supplied by the chip manufacturers (Tenor in this case) who can't be bothered to sign their drivers. If you haven't updated to Yosemite yet I suggest you hold off until the situation has cleared.


----------



## xaval

I'm still on Mountain Lion and Snow Leopard. Not by chance... for quite a few bit of things.
 To make it safe on any SO, I ordered the Toslink input!


----------



## plakat

nicooo said:


> To all *Mac *users with the *internal USB-DAC card* installed:
> 
> Starting with Yosemite (Mac OS X 10.10) Apple requires all kernel extensions (i.e. your DAC driver) to be signed. Unfortunately, Lake People / Violectric have not updated their driver with the right signature yet. As a consequence the driver will not be loaded by the OS and your music will sound funny to say the least. If you already updated to Yosemite and have no way to roll back to the old OS version you can circumvent the problem by disabling the signature check with the following procedure:
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for your effort, that seems to work (i.e. the driver does indeed load and no distortion after 10+ sec.). Two things: It seems to be necessary to write the nvram value *after* installing the driver and I'd leave out the '-v', i.e.:
  
 # sudo nvram boot-args="kext-dev-mode=1"


----------



## nicooo

You are right, the "-v" is not needed. It causes a verbose boot of Mac OS, i.e. the whole boot process it's printed out on screen. I updated my post accordingly. From my understanding the order of driver installation and nvram configuration shouldn't matter but whatever works...


----------



## mulder01

jeffmann said:


> I habitually follow the same pattern of always warming up my equipment for 30-60 minutes prior to listening - by playing a CD at a lower listening volume.
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
 Wow really?  That's the first time I've ever heard of anyone waiting for solid state amps to warm up.  Do you have an explanation of what this achieves?  I was under the impression that electronics worked better cooler.


----------



## xaval

I've had dozens of audio equipment for 2 decades and irrespective of tubes or solid state with very few exceptions they sound better once settled down. Some achieve this faster than others. This is ime...


----------



## plakat

nicooo said:


> You are right, the "-v" is not needed. It causes a verbose boot of Mac OS, i.e. the whole boot process it's printed out on screen. I updated my post accordingly. From my understanding the order of driver installation and nvram configuration shouldn't matter but whatever works...


 

 I did not expect that either, but I did set boot-args... after reboot following the driver installation the setting as gone however. Surprising. Setting it again worked and after the next reboot the driver did in fact load (verified by trying it out and looking at the output of kextstat).
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## roskodan

mulder01 said:


> jeffmann said:
> 
> 
> > I habitually follow the same pattern of always warming up my equipment for 30-60 minutes prior to listening - by playing a CD at a lower listening volume.
> ...


 

 lol, common misconception that the 'better' working must be the 'better' sounding, we are talking about listening not measuring performance, there is plenty of scientific literature meticulous explaining every potential effect of temperature on electronic component's performance
  
 what's important for us here is knowing that the temperature of the component will change the sound, then everybody can decide for themselves what sound 'better', cold or warm


----------



## Xenophon

mulder01 said:


> Wow really?  That's the first time I've ever heard of anyone waiting for solid state amps to warm up.  Do you have an explanation of what this achieves?  I was under the impression that electronics worked better cooler.


 

 It's the same with lots of gear.  For instance the FirstWatt speaker amps (using MOSFET/JFETs) sound better after 10 minutes of warmup (and they draw 200 W in pure class A but so no need to buy a room heater but that's another matter).
  
 I once auditioned a Burson Conductor and at the time the official recommendation in the manual was to just leave it on permanently iirc, the reason being that 'warming up' took a REALLY long time and the sound was simply crappy if it hadn't warmed up.  Felt like bad design as it wasn't just a matter of a subtle sound coloration there.  With other amps I don't feel warmup makes a difference (e.g. my V200).


----------



## mulder01

roskodan said:


> lol, common misconception that the 'better' working must be the 'better' sounding, we are talking about listening not measuring performance, there is plenty of scientific literature meticulous explaining every potential effect of temperature on electronic component's performance
> 
> what's important for us here is knowing that the temperature of the component will change the sound, then everybody can decide for themselves what sound 'better', cold or warm


 
 Too bad if you prefer the cold sound.  You can only listen to one song, then back in the fridge it goes


----------



## roskodan

> Originally Posted by *mulder01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Too bad if you prefer the cold sound.  You can only listen to one song, then back in the fridge it goes


 
 yeah, wouldn't want to be that guy tho XD
  
 anyway as previously mentioned by others in various threads, nevertheless of electronics performing better/worse when colder/warmer, there is the issue of thermal balance/coupling inside the equipment, especially when components (pre op amp, power regulator, power stage etc.) are made from discrete elements (not integrated inside one or more silicon chips so to speak), there is difference in temperature among the various parts of the discrete components themselves (since components closer to something that get hot fast will warm up faster) not to talk about difference between various components inside the piece of gear, also between channels, before the piece of gear reaches a more or less homogeneous working temperature back to front, it doesn't matter if it's cold or hot but that everything inside is thermally coupled, in that regard it's easier to let it warm evenly by itself than to keep it in liquid nitrogen XD, especially when it sounds better that way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 also thermal coupling was one of the reasons violectric preferred using integrated opamps rather than discrete ones
  
 basically thermal discrepancies inside the gear makes more of an audible difference that electronic elements (semiconductors, caps, resistors etc.) working better at a certain temperature than other, the linear (as specified) working temperature range of electronic components is far greater than the oscillation in temperature the gear is subject to when operating, at least for audio equipment, when there is no problem with heat dissipation


----------



## Megalomaniak

xenophon said:


> It's the same with lots of gear.  For instance the FirstWatt speaker amps (using MOSFET/JFETs) sound better after 10 minutes of warmup (and they draw 200 W in pure class A but so no need to buy a room heater but that's another matter).
> 
> I once auditioned a Burson Conductor and at the time the official recommendation in the manual was to just leave it on permanently iirc, the reason being that 'warming up' took a REALLY long time and the sound was simply crappy if it hadn't warmed up.  Felt like bad design as it wasn't just a matter of a subtle sound coloration there.  With other amps I don't feel warmup makes a difference (e.g. my V200).


 
  
 Well, in every piece of hi-fi equipment Ive had at home, and Ive had a bunch of them (my father used to repair them), Ive rarely seen improvement in sound after warming up, only in true vintage stuff for speakers with tubes, but just for a few minutes. And the main difference was the distorsion and background noise.
  
 Where Ive seen most improvement is in speaker PA systems, for live performances and that stuff I usually set up, the amplifiers operate at high wattage, delivering like 3000-4000 Watts per amplifier so they have to warm up, and the speakers, usually 450-1200W per speaker and 1000-3000W subs too.
  
 Even, some PA amplifiers do warm up before they "start working".


----------



## plakat

While I personally never came across a PA amp that actually has a warm up phase, many do have a current limitation when switching on to avoid peak current killing any fuses. Acoustically relevant properties of speakers do change with temperature however, that effect *can* be relevant on large PA systems where magnets do get really hot and the temperature in a compression chamber does change over the evening.
  
 Out of habit I never run a PA at full load within the first 10-15min. I don't think its really relevant nowadays with switching power supplies and so-called digital amps that raun fairly cold due to better efficiency. Letting the speakers warm up a bit may on the other hand extend their life span though.
  
 At home I never run equipment anywhere near its limit, so any precautions regarding operating temperature etc. do not apply (I don't own tube amps).


----------



## alvinmate

Hey Guys,
  
 I am super excited today and wanted to share with everyone some photos of my new headphone rig..delivery was done today and I still have to tweak few things and potentially upgrade some components..did a quick test run and simply put this amp is amazing...


----------



## project86

Looking good! I dig the Apollo-R player, nice match with the V281 in terms of size.


----------



## alvinmate

Thanks 86,

I believe the Apollo R are good performers for their price and yes size wise great match with V281.


----------



## project86

I have a thing for smallish CD players or transports..... Haven't owned an Apollo-R yet but have gone through Musical Fidelity CDT, some TEAC models, a Shanling, and am now on a YBA Design WM202 which is a bit wider but still works for my space. The Apollo R looks damn good though, better than their full size model IMHO.


----------



## plakat

project86 said:


> I have a thing for smallish CD players or transports.....


 
  
 You might want to have a look at the Pro-Ject CD Box S then:
 http://www.box-designs.com/main.php?prod=cdboxs&cat=source&lang=en
  
 It has a coax digital out and might pair well with the coax-input option of the V281. Still contemplating to order that board as I own this player.


----------



## project86

Oh yeah, forgot about those. They are hard to come by in the USA compared to others, but do look nice.


----------



## uelover

You guys have made me take a look at those CDPs. Three that particularly caught my attention:
  

Pro-Ject CD Box DS CD Player
MUSICAL FIDELITY M1 CDT
REGA APOLLO R CD PLAYER
  
 Not sure which is better/worse though.


----------



## Megalomaniak

plakat said:


> While I personally never came across a PA amp that actually has a warm up phase, many do have a current limitation when switching on to avoid peak current killing any fuses. Acoustically relevant properties of speakers do change with temperature however, that effect *can* be relevant on large PA systems where magnets do get really hot and the temperature in a compression chamber does change over the evening.
> 
> Out of habit I never run a PA at full load within the first 10-15min. I don't think its really relevant nowadays with switching power supplies and so-called digital amps that raun fairly cold due to better efficiency. Letting the speakers warm up a bit may on the other hand extend their life span though.
> 
> At home I never run equipment anywhere near its limit, so any precautions regarding operating temperature etc. do not apply (I don't own tube amps).


 
  
 Of course Im speaking about open air equipment, or club equipment. The warm up phase usually takes a couple minutes, some models do have fans included for all the wattage. Also its recommended to not run the PA speakers on its full potential on the very first 15 minutes or so, after that, turn it up all the way! (this is for the membranes of the speakers) Membranes and magnets have maintenance thought.
  
 But well, PA equipment always operate at high levels of sound pressure, home equipment doesnt haha.
  
*@alvinmate *Very cool!! Loved the HD800s with my V281.


----------



## daveyston23

uelover said:


> You guys have made me take a look at those CDPs. Three that particularly caught my attention:
> 
> 
> Pro-Ject CD Box DS CD Player
> ...


 
  
 I don't have any experience with the Project CDP so I can't comment on it. But I have previously owned the Rega Apollo R CDP, and I wasn't that impressed with it when used purely as a CD Transport. As for the M1 CDT, I was able to audition it as well as the Cyrus CDT at a local store, but after just one A/B, the Cyrus sounded clearly better to my ears: more transparent, dynamic, and a quieter background. With the Cyrus, it was like having a direct window into the music. If I had to grab a CDT to use with a separate DAC, I would seriously consider the Cyrus. Too bad I'm really enjoying computer audio at the moment


----------



## uelover

daveyston23 said:


> I don't have any experience with the Project CDP so I can't comment on it. But I have previously owned the Rega Apollo R CDP, and I wasn't that impressed with it when used purely as a CD Transport. As for the M1 CDT, I was able to audition it as well as the Cyrus CDT at a local store, but after just one A/B, the Cyrus sounded clearly better to my ears: more transparent, dynamic, and a quieter background. With the Cyrus, it was like having a direct window into the music. If I had to grab a CDT to use with a separate DAC, I would seriously consider the Cyrus. Too bad I'm really enjoying computer audio at the moment


 
  
 Thanks for the input!
  
 I have been on computer audio for the longest time. Sometimes I longed for the act of just inserting a disc and listening to music without the need to face all the other computer processes.


----------



## plakat

megalomaniak said:


> Of course Im speaking about open air equipment, or club equipment. The warm up phase usually takes a couple minutes, some models do have fans included for all the wattage. Also its recommended to not run the PA speakers on its full potential on the very first 15 minutes or so, after that, turn it up all the way! (this is for the membranes of the speakers) Membranes and magnets have maintenance thought.
> 
> But well, PA equipment always operate at high levels of sound pressure, home equipment doesnt haha.


 

 Thats what I was talking about... PA <> Home-Fi, the latter is neither built for nor used at levels that are normal working conditions of the former.
 PA can be a lot of fun though... having an in-room earthquake with an array of infras is *nice*. As long as one wears ear protection that is... otherwise the fun with home-equipment might soon be over.


----------



## plakat

uelover said:


> I have been on computer audio for the longest time. Sometimes I longed for the act of just inserting a disc and listening to music without the need to face all the other computer processes.


 
  
 I still buy CDs of albums I consider to be of special value -- my son needs a starting point for his own music collection I think 
 Plus the simplicity of inserting a CD (selected in an analog fashion by looking at cover art) into a drive and listening has something to it... which is why I'm thinking about combining my Pro-Ject with the coax inputboard of the V281.
  
 Interesting that Cyrus offers a transport-only CDXt:
 http://www.cyrusaudio.com/product-archive/cd-players/cdxt-cd-transport


----------



## uelover

plakat said:


> I still buy CDs of albums I consider to be of special value -- my son needs a starting point for his own music collection I think
> Plus the simplicity of inserting a CD (selected in an analog fashion by looking at cover art) into a drive and listening has something to it... which is why I'm thinking about combining my Pro-Ject with the coax inputboard of the V281.
> 
> Interesting that Cyrus offers a transport-only CDXt:
> http://www.cyrusaudio.com/product-archive/cd-players/cdxt-cd-transport


 
  
 I guess that the listening to LP will be even more special.
  
 The more I look at the Cyrus, the more it looks like those old VCR player to me.


----------



## mulder01

I listen to my music almost exclusively through an ipod, but I only buy my music on CD...  Granted I just rip the contents of the CD onto the computer, but I like to have something I can hold.
  
 That has to be the first time I'd heard anyone comment on the enjoyment of opening a CD and placing it in the player to listen to it.  That used to be the way people would talk about listening to vinyl.  You get the experience of taking it out of it's case, and being able to hold it in your hands and you don't get with digital.  
  
 That comment has kinda made me realise we've hit that turning point now, where CDs will begin to be nearly as uncommon as vinyl over the coming years...


----------



## daveyston23

uelover said:


> Thanks for the input!
> 
> I have been on computer audio for the longest time. Sometimes I longed for the act of just inserting a disc and listening to music without the need to face all the other computer processes.


 

 Yeh I know what you mean. There is also the nostalgia of collecting and playing CDs. Despite the ongoing advances in computer audio, there will probably always be a place for the good old CD player.


----------



## alvinmate

I totally agree with everyone who feel that doing some things traditionally gives you that personal satisfaction and hence the reason of owning the CDP. At the time when I was looking for CDP I could only afford Rega Apollo R which I purchased after auditioning a few within the same price bracket.
  
 Definitely Cyrus is a step up and a very good choice.
  
 Does anyone here own or have experienced the Bel Canto CD2 or even CD3t....and maybe compared this to Cyrus stuff?


----------



## daveyston23

uelover said:


> I guess that the listening to LP will be even more special.
> 
> The more I look at the Cyrus, the more it looks like those old VCR player to me.


 
  
 Yeh the Cyrus aesthetic is kinda retro and I was a bit doubtful about the slot mechanism on the CDT. But the looks kind of grew on me during the week in which I owned it and the slot mechanism worked a treat. It's also really sturdy and feels like quality to the touch.


----------



## xaval

This talk about small transports led me to this question. Is there a SACD player of that size that's good to use it's analog outs into the V220?


----------



## plakat

uelover said:


> I guess that the listening to LP will be even more special.


 
  
  


mulder01 said:


> That has to be the first time I'd heard anyone comment on the enjoyment of opening a CD and placing it in the player to listen to it.  That used to be the way people would talk about listening to vinyl.  You get the experience of taking it out of it's case, and being able to hold it in your hands and you don't get with digital.
> 
> That comment has kinda made me realise we've hit that turning point now, where CDs will begin to be nearly as uncommon as vinyl over the coming years...


 
  
 I'm originally kind of a Vinyl freak: my audiophile career started around the time CDs came up... and they were plagued with sometimes awful mastering, the sound engineers were used to the peculiarities of vinyl mastering which matched badly with CD qualities. So I came to CDs rather late, now I think most CDs are of quite good quality. Still I prefer Vinyl for its feeling... unfortunately Vinyl matches not that well with the presence of a 2-year old 
  
 So for now I'm taking to CDs for my recreational listening. And will look into that nice combination CD transport + V281.


----------



## uelover

xaval said:


> This talk about small transports led me to this question. Is there a SACD player of that size that's good to use it's analog outs into the V220?


 
  
 The Pro-ject CD Players are quite small and support SACD. 
  


plakat said:


> I'm originally kind of a Vinyl freak: my audiophile career started around the time CDs came up... and they were plagued with sometimes awful mastering, the sound engineers were used to the peculiarities of vinyl mastering which matched badly with CD qualities. So I came to CDs rather late, now I think most CDs are of quite good quality. Still I prefer Vinyl for its feeling... unfortunately Vinyl matches not that well with the presence of a 2-year old
> 
> So for now I'm taking to CDs for my recreational listening. And will look into that nice combination CD transport + V281.


 
  
 I can't get past the design of the Cyrus at this moment. Maybe I should go visit the audio shops to get some idea.


----------



## xaval

uelover said:


> The Pro-ject CD Players are quite small and support SACD.


 
 Indeed. Petty no digital out or analog out. But for the price, it sure is an attractive solution.
 The CD Box RS transport also plays SACD... I wonder what the digital pulls off under an SACD playing...must be the Sonic Scrambling technology 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Of course it's not cheap.


----------



## project86

I'm almost positive the Pro-jest player don't do SACD. They mention compatibility with "hybrid SACD" which just means the red book layer.... Which is something every CD player can do anyway.

The SACD spec called for blocking any digital outputs. A few players got around that one way or another, but for the most part that holds true on all payers. With the exception of HDMI since they figure you aren't recording audio from HDMI.


----------



## uelover

project86 said:


> I'm almost positive the Pro-jest player don't do SACD. They mention compatibility with "hybrid SACD" which just means the red book layer.... Which is something every CD player can do anyway.
> 
> The SACD spec called for blocking any digital outputs. A few players got around that one way or another, but for the most part that holds true on all payers. With the exception of HDMI since they figure you aren't recording audio from HDMI.




I see. Specification can be misleading!


----------



## mulder01

Just curious as to why people are interested in running CD transports with the V281 add on DAC board.  It's a pretty cheap DAC, I mean, I hear it's good for it's price but wouldn't a decent CD player probably have a better DAC in it?  
  
 For example, I used to own a Cambridge Audio 840C a few years ago which upsampled CDs to 24 bit 384kHz and had a number of digital inputs so if you had a coaxial or optical digital output from another device, you could use the CD player just in DAC mode and use the XLRs out to your amp.  I thought people only bought CD transports if they had a DAC they really loved - like if you had a $5k DAC and wanted a CD player, you'd just buy the transport and use your own DAC rather than the one built into the player?  Or have I missed the point entirely...


----------



## project86

It depends. The DAC option for V281 is quite good despite the low price. I can name a half dozen CD players in the $500-$1,000 range that don't sound as good. I can also name plenty that do sound better in that same price range. But having the DAC built in means we have the option of using a dedicated transport, even if not that many companies make those types of devices.
  
 I do think a Cambridge 840C or even the 740C are still better than the V281 DAC option. I'd put the add-on DAC right around the same level as the Cambridge 651C or the 751BD universal player. Not bad company I'd say.


----------



## plakat

Yes, of course that's not an upgrade for all CD players. It just opens the possibility to use a rather cheap transport, as @project86 mentioned. If you own a player with a good day there's no point in replacing that


----------



## Zkadoush

Got my V281 a couple of days ago at Computer Lounge in Auckland, New Zealand (SN 0037). I had an epic first session with my HD800s and brand new LCD-Xs - got them with the V281 - and I so enjoyed the Amp and my cans I had to literally force myself to bed and get some sleep. I haven't even bothered taking any pics yet, and unfortunately I will have to part from my Amp during two weeks of vacations. Well, you can't have it all, right? I will certainly share some first impressions and nice pics once back. I'll let my V281 sleep in its well deserved Pelican Storm case while I go catch some sun and beach.

 Big thanks to Computer Lounge for bringing in the V281 for me, and kudos to Fried Reim.

 Cheers!


----------



## plakat

Yesterday my Benchmark DAC2 arrived, now going to XLR in on my V281. Well... thats it for now. No more new toys. Fantastic combination, clear, resolving but not fatiguing, dead silent background. Just lovely.


----------



## Tony1110

plakat said:


> Yesterday my Benchmark DAC2 arrived, now going to XLR in on my V281. Well... thats it for now. No more new toys. Fantastic combination, clear, resolving but not fatiguing, dead silent background. Just lovely.




One of the DACs on my shortlist. Along with the Yulong DA8 and Matrix X-Sabre. Bet it sounds great with V281.


----------



## muah

hi all.  I finally took delivery of my V281.  Thanks to the good people from Lake People!!!
  
  
 This early morning, i had some time and was using the various headphones i have with the amp, and I was able to get sound/music from the balance out (4-in XLR), the 1/4" unbalance jack nearest to the 4-pin balance out XLR, but no sound/music from the right most unbalance jack.  The jack underneath the Balance knob has no sound/music.
  
 this isn't normal, right?
  
 or the right most jack is only used for Balance mode, using 1/4" jacks.
  
 thanks


----------



## xaval

There are 3 active headphone outs and all should be able to work simultaneously, as in, playing 3 different headphones at the same time, 1 of them balanced.


----------



## muah

i can only play 2 simultaneously.
  
 will write to Lakepeople.  maybe a loose connection?
  
 thanks.


----------



## xaval

A loose connection could be sorted opening the case and inspecting if cables and ribbons are all properly seated - check manual on how to do this.
 Otherwise check with your seller or Lake People on how to send your amp for repairs/warranty. Send an email to Lake People and most probably Fried will reply to it.


----------



## muah

darn, just got the amp last friday and so so so enjoying it.
  
 Will write in and ask LakePeople, since i gotten it direct from them.
  
 thanks.


----------



## uelover

muah said:


> darn, just got the amp last friday and so so so enjoying it.
> 
> Will write in and ask LakePeople, since i gotten it direct from them.
> 
> thanks.


 
  
 You have gotten it before me!
  
 I am still waiting for mine to be shipped. Must be the customized DAC configuration.


----------



## xaval

I think all amps are hand assembled by order as there is a bit of configuration options available. My order took about 2 weeks to come in.


----------



## muah

Hahaha......

Musical bliss.....

Just finished making 2 RCA interconnects.

Switchcraft on both ends and ALO cables to connect them up.


----------



## muah

uelover said:


> You have gotten it before me!
> 
> I am still waiting for mine to be shipped. Must be the customized DAC configuration.





Soon my friend. Soon.....

"Do get ready to pay GST. That was how my wife found out about the price as she signed for it and paid the GST when I wasn't home!'

Hahaha


----------



## Zkadoush

"Yesterday my Benchmark DAC2 arrived, now going to XLR in on my V281. Well... thats it for now. No more new toys. Fantastic combination, clear, resolving but not fatiguing, dead silent background. Just lovely." (Plakat) [Forgot to use the quote button and can't delete this one]
  
 Great, would love to hear some more of your impressions. Going for the same combo, but still have to wait for my DAC 2 DX.


----------



## uelover

muah said:


> Soon my friend. Soon.....
> 
> "Do get ready to pay GST. That was how my wife found out about the price as she signed for it and paid the GST when I wasn't home!'
> 
> Hahaha




Oh dear. The thought of that frightens me. I have placed my order one 1st Nov so it's more than a three week wait for me. Not shipped yet.

On the other hand. I am still waiting for my balanced cable to arrive as well.


----------



## FredrikT92

How are the dynamics in the V281 compared to something like a Mjolnir?


----------



## project86

fredrikt92 said:


> How are the dynamics in the V281 compared to something like a Mjolnir?


 
  
  
 Better imho. Mjolnir is pretty good in this area, but due to the somewhat aggressive tonality it seems like it is always "on". It does the peaks very well, but the valleys not as well if that makes any sense. If not, sorry, it's early where I am....


----------



## plakat

tony1110 said:


> One of the DACs on my shortlist. Along with the Yulong DA8 and Matrix X-Sabre. Bet it sounds great with V281.


 
  
 Can't say anoything about DA8 or X-Sabre, but I'm really happy with the DAC2. Using their "Home Theater Output" feature for a somewhat fixed level on the XLR outs.
  


muah said:


> hi all.  I finally took delivery of my V281.  Thanks to the good people from Lake People!!!
> 
> 
> This early morning, i had some time and was using the various headphones i have with the amp, and I was able to get sound/music from the balance out (4-in XLR), the 1/4" unbalance jack nearest to the 4-pin balance out XLR, but no sound/music from the right most unbalance jack.  The jack underneath the Balance knob has no sound/music.
> ...


 
  
 As already mentioned all three jacks do work in parallel, so thats not normal. If your balanced out does work I think its just the internal connection of the right 1/4" jack. Maybe you'll be able to fix it yourself, just check the connection to the amp board. Otherwise contact Lake People.
  


zkadoush said:


> "Yesterday my Benchmark DAC2 arrived, now going to XLR in on my V281. Well... thats it for now. No more new toys. Fantastic combination, clear, resolving but not fatiguing, dead silent background. Just lovely." (Plakat) [Forgot to use the quote button and can't delete this one]
> 
> Great, would love to hear some more of your impressions. Going for the same combo, but still have to wait for my DAC 2 DX.


 
 I'll add some more impressions within the next few days. Listened for a few hours yesterday and did not find anything I did not like so far. But I have to say that I'm an solid state lover, so I'm not after a romantic sound like some tube amps offer. Also my reason to choose studio gear like the DAC2 or, to some degree, the V281, given Lake Peoples background.


----------



## kensonic

Did someone compare the Violectric with the Ragnarok (on HD 800) ?


----------



## xaval

kensonic said:


> Did someone compare the Violectric with the Ragnarok (on HD 800) ?


 
 It would be interesting to hear a few impressions of both, especially because the Rag is Sumit-Fi tier and the Vio is mass market.


----------



## Tony1110

xaval said:


> It would be interesting to hear a few impressions of both, especially because the Rag is Sumit-Fi tier and the Vio is mass market.




I wouldn't read too much into that.


----------



## muah

muah said:


> i can only play 2 simultaneously.
> 
> will write to Lakepeople.  maybe a loose connection?
> 
> thanks.




I am no good with words as most people are here, but I like what I hear with V281. So for an impression of what the V281 sounds like, read the other posts in this thread. That was what I did and the actual audition sealed the deal.

But one thing I can attest to is the after sales service of Lakepeople and Fried is top notch. As I have replied in this thread, I was only have 2 working outputs of the 3 headphone outputs upon receiving my V281. An email to Lakepeople was quickly responded with a remedy and the 3rd missing output was 'found'. The gremlins must have been working overtime during the flight here inside my V281!!! Hahahah.

Kudos to Fried and the Lakepeople team!


----------



## PleasantSounds

muah said:


> I am no good with words as most people are here, but I like what I hear with V281. So for an impression of what the V281 sounds like, read the other posts in this thread. That was what I did and the actual audition sealed the deal.
> 
> But one thing I can attest to is the after sales service of Lakepeople and Fried is top notch. As I have replied in this thread, I was only have 2 working outputs of the 3 headphone outputs upon receiving my V281. An email to Lakepeople was quickly responded with a remedy and the 3rd missing output was 'found'. The gremlins must have been working overtime during the flight here inside my V281!!! Hahahah.
> 
> Kudos to Fried and the Lakepeople team!


 

 Good to see that you were able to resolve your issue without sending the amp back.
  
 As for the Violectric/Lake People service I agree: they are fantastic. When I played with the USB DAC and encountered some issues I reported them here. Next thing I get a PM from their tech rep offering help in resolving it.
  
 Even considering that this is a new product and they may be going an extra mile to make sure it's successful, this was the first time something like that happened to me.


----------



## Megalomaniak

I you read pages ago, I was among the first ones all over the world to have the new Violectrics amplifiers, I'm pretty sure even before any american customer had one since I live in Europe and shipment is faster haha.
  
 But I got one of the very first amplifiers which had problems with the volume knob, the screw loose itself due to the temperatures of the plane and the communication with the SAT was superb, they sent me ASAP an allen key to re-atach the knob and 4 months after, is as solid as it could be!
  
 Top notch quality here.


----------



## alvinmate

Hi Guys,
  
 Need advice and possible recommendations on source upgrade..... Should I go the music streamer route or upgrade to a better CDP?  Budget upto $2K.
  
  
 Currently have Rega Apollo R paired up with V281.
  
  
 Any suggestions would be helpful...
  
  
 Thanks


----------



## Viper2005

alvinmate said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Need advice and possible recommendations on source upgrade..... Should I go the music streamer route or upgrade to a better CDP?  Budget upto $2K.
> 
> ...


 
 I use a Logitech Squeezebox Touch as my source, it's very convenient and is great for playing hi-res audio.  I have it networked to a server downstairs, and control the player with an iPad or iPhone.
 Logitech doesn't make them anymore but there are plenty of used ones on ebay.


----------



## alvinmate

Hi Viper,
  
 Thanks for your suggestion...Will look into Logitech... Anyone have experience with Olive HD streamers...??


----------



## sugarshark

alvinmate said:


> Hi Viper,
> 
> Thanks for your suggestion...Will look into Logitech... Anyone have experience with Olive HD streamers...??


 
  
 if you're looking for a high end solution - which would make sense if you have such a good amp - then i'd suggest using a PC as the source feeding into an external DAC (preferably with a decent USB SPDIF converter)
  
 using a pc gives you heaps of options for an interface. e.g. XBMC, foobar, VLC etc etc


----------



## Viper2005

sugarshark said:


> if you're looking for a high end solution - which would make sense if you have such a good amp - then i'd suggest using a PC as the source feeding into an external DAC (preferably with a decent USB SPDIF converter)
> 
> using a pc gives you heaps of options for an interface. e.g. XBMC, foobar, VLC etc etc




If your listening station is at your computer desk then using a PC would be feasible.
But if you like listening away from your PC, then streaming works well! You can even have multiple listening stations fed by one central server.


----------



## project86

alvinmate said:


> Hi Viper,
> 
> Thanks for your suggestion...Will look into Logitech... Anyone have experience with Olive HD streamers...??


 
  
  
 I'll second the recommendation for a Squeezebox Touch. It's not a lot of money for a nice little streamer. Add an external DAC and you can have very high quality sound.
  
 Olive stuff has always struck me as nice but overpriced for what you get. Seems more like their gear is intended for people who don't know how to rip their own CDs, and just want something to handle it for them. Build is fine, SQ is fine but not amazing for the price, and their UI is just not all that great (considering that's their big selling point).
  
 I'd also look into computer as transport if you are at all handy with a computer. It doesn't take much to set up a laptop and then control it with a tablet.


----------



## alvinmate

Hi 86,

Thanks for your recommendations....Currently I have a chance of securing a demo unit of Aurender X100s at a good price.... Have you got any experience with this model.... I will be heading over to my local dealer for audition however just wanted to get some general feedback......


----------



## project86

Yes! See my profile for a link, I reviewed it at Part Time Audiophile. I covered the X100L but it should be the same idea. I bought the review unit and love it.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Where would the Auralic Aries reside in this regard?


----------



## JeffMann

project86 said:


> I'll second the recommendation for a Squeezebox Touch. It's not a lot of money for a nice little streamer. Add an external DAC and you can have very high quality sound.
> 
> Olive stuff has always struck me as nice but overpriced for what you get. Seems more like their gear is intended for people who don't know how to rip their own CDs, and just want something to handle it for them. Build is fine, SQ is fine but not amazing for the price, and their UI is just not all that great (considering that's their big selling point).
> 
> I'd also look into computer as transport if you are at all handy with a computer. It doesn't take much to set up a laptop and then control it with a tablet.




Could you please advise what laptop you would recommend as a music server where I can place the laptop in my listening room and where the sole function of the laptop would be to act as a music server? Can I then send the signal to an Anedio D2 DAC using its USB port? Also, is there a music streaming service that offers a large selection of high quality classical music and opera recordings? Would a laptop be deficient in sound quality relative to an Aurender x100 music server?

Jeff.


----------



## Xenophon

jeffmann said:


> Could you please advise what laptop you would recommend as a music server where I can place the laptop in my listening room and where the sole function of the laptop would be to act as a music server? Can I then send the signal to an Anedio D2 DAC using its USB port? *Also, is there a music streaming service that offers a large selection of high quality classical music and opera recordings?* Would a laptop be deficient in sound quality relative to an Aurender x100 music server?
> 
> Jeff.


 
 I've been looking for a good one for a long, long time.....
  
 Have a subscription with classicalarchives.com:  lots of artists but unfortunately they tend to go for cheaper editions (Naxos).  Then there's Spotify premium, they seriously enlarged their classical offer and to be fair, it's not bad imo.  Of course lots of mainstream compilations but also quite specialised works.  Only fly in the ointment is the interface that absolutely sucks to organise a library.  
  
 Some people also like Qobuz, I don't know, they don't offer the variety that Spotify premium has.  Tidal's not available where I am.  If you find an interesting one that's not mentioned, please post.


----------



## project86

coldassault said:


> Where would the Auralic Aries reside in this regard?


 
  
  
 Sorry, I haven't heard it so I don't know.
  
  


jeffmann said:


> Could you please advise what laptop you would recommend as a music server where I can place the laptop in my listening room and where the sole function of the laptop would be to act as a music server? Can I then send the signal to an Anedio D2 DAC using its USB port? Also, is there a music streaming service that offers a large selection of high quality classical music and opera recordings? Would a laptop be deficient in sound quality relative to an Aurender x100 music server?
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
  
 On a basic level, pretty much any laptop will do. You want something reasonably current as far as CPU, RAM, and storage (although you can always add external hard drives if needed). I figure any well reviewed laptop that isn't a cut-rate, doorbuster type offering should be pretty good.
  
 The reason I recommend a laptop in the first place (rather than a desktop or something like a Mac Mini) is the convenience of having a display/keyboard/mouse available when you need it. I have run a "headless" dedicated media PC and it's kind of a hassle to lug a screen and keyboard in there whenever something goes wrong or I need to change the configuration. Your mileage may vary in that regard.
  
 There are several good programs you can use which can be controlled via tablet. JRiver Media Center works with JRemote on a tablet, or for a more affordable option go Foobar2000 with MonkeyMote (I tend use this one more than JRiver, both are good). It's great to just sit on the couch and call up your favorite tracks or build a playlist, etc.
  
 Now, you can go farther than that with a dedicated machine. Higher end USB ouput cards, power filters, etc. Imho this stuff matters but isn't crucial at all, and personally I'd rather buy a purpose built machine like Aurender than wrestle with it myself. Even a basic laptop will sound quite good. The Aurender will sound better, but depending on your system, room, and listening habits, it may not be a big enough difference to matter.
  
 Regarding streaming services, see below....
  


xenophon said:


> I've been looking for a good one for a long, long time.....
> 
> Have a subscription with classicalarchives.com:  lots of artists but unfortunately they tend to go for cheaper editions (Naxos).  Then there's Spotify premium, they seriously enlarged their classical offer and to be fair, it's not bad imo.  Of course lots of mainstream compilations but also quite specialised works.  Only fly in the ointment is the interface that absolutely sucks to organise a library.
> 
> Some people also like Qobuz, I don't know, they don't offer the variety that Spotify premium has.  Tidal's not available where I am.  If you find an interesting one that's not mentioned, please post.


 
  
 Classicalarchives.com is a great site, but unfortunately their streaming service is only 160k AAC - which is certainly listenable but does lose some of the magic imho. Same with 320k mp3 from Spotify.
  
 On a budget, I really like OraStream Classical HD which is $7.99 a month. It offers lossless, CD quality streaming of a pretty good catalog, mainly from independent labels - Naxos, Marco Polo, Amadis, Altissimo, Capriccio and Dynamic, Orophone, Proprius and Sittel. They also have some hi-res content in various PCM formats up to 24-bit/192kHz which can be streamed without any extra fees. The user interface is a little hard to work with at times, and I find it better for browsing or music discovery than finding specific releases. They claim to be improving it though so we'll see. The library has a few hundred thousand tracks and they add hundreds or thousands per week, so it's growing fairly quickly.
  
Then there's Tidal, which has a massive library in the many millions. It works well and sounds great (identical to OraStream or just a plain CD for the most part) and the $20/month seems reasonable, assuming it works where you live. 
  
The tricky part on these? You'll have to figure out a way to control them. Tidal supposedly has a way of working with JRiver in which case your JRemote setup would presumably do the trick (I haven't done this yet). OraStream has tablet apps but that's for playing on the tablet itself, not controlling the player on another PC. You'd have to use some type of screen mirroring app to get your desktop duplicated on your tablet, which is doable but the experience may not be as smooth as you'd like.


----------



## Xenophon

@Project86:  Thanks for the tip; I took a look at Orastream but a couple of -admittedly not mainstream- artists such as Graindelavoix (early music) and well known violinist Rachel Podger yielded nothing, nor did Masaaki Suzuki, one of the references for Bach cantatas.  Those are all available on spotify currently, the 320 kbps mp3 encoding is ok for me, I know there's no agreement about this but I can't reliably distinguish between that or CD redbook anyway.  Waiting impatiently for Tidal to arrive.


----------



## JeffMann

project86 said:


> Sorry, I haven't heard it so I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would like to only use a music streaming service that has a very large collection of mainstream classical/opera recordings (and not only a limited number of speciality labels) and I am only interested in high quality streamed material. It would seem from your comments that Tidal is the best choice. I am still not sure what to make of your comment that a laptop-based streaming device may not be as good as Aurender. I have recently purchased a PS Audio Perfect Wave Memory Player CD-transport-and-Anedio D2 DAC combo to replace my Sony 54000ES CD-player, and I want my music streaming device/service to at least be equal to that level of CD-quality. What other music streaming device options (other than Aurender) are available if I want to maximise sound quality? How does an used Logitech Touch Squeeze Box device compare to an Aurender, and are there better alternatives to a Logitech device? 

Jeff.


----------



## project86

Yeah OraStream is definitely not good for searching your favorite artist/band/composer. I think of it more like Pandora where I can't always get specifically what I want, but usually I find stuff I like that maybe I haven't heard in a while or perhaps ever. I typically just browse by the album covers or else pick a genre (orchestral, vocal ensemble, chamber, etc) and let it go from there.


----------



## project86

jeffmann said:


> I would like to only use a music streaming service that has a very large collection of mainstream classical/opera recordings (and not only a limited number of speciality labels) and I am only interested in high quality streamed material. It would seem from your comments that Tidal is the best choice. I am still not sure what to make of your comment that a laptop-based streaming device may not be as good as Aurender. I have recently purchased a PS Audio Perfect Wave Memory Player CD-transport-and-Anedio D2 DAC combo to replace my Sony 54000ES CD-player, and I want my music streaming device/service to at least be equal to that level of CD-quality. What other music streaming device options (other than Aurender) are available if I want to maximise sound quality? How does an used Logitech Touch Squeeze Box device compare to an Aurender, and are there better alternatives to a Logitech device?
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
  
 Sorry Jeff, I was typing my other reply and didn't see your post until afterwards.
  
 The laptop-versus-Aurender comment really comes down to your particular beliefs or experience (or whatever we call it) in transport differences. Some people would describe a huge chasm between them even while using the same DAC. Others would say most transports are pretty much indistinguishable.
  
 I fall somewhere in the middle - I think it's pretty trivial to get very acceptable SQ from most any computer, but difficult to get true reference level quality without some customization. In contrast, a CD based transport can vary wildly from terrible to excellent. So I'd say computers are more consistently good but perhaps have a harder time achieving greatness. I hope that makes sense.
  
 Honestly, I'd start with a Squeezebox Touch and use it as a test drive. It's relatively cheap and sounds very nice. You can connect via coaxial digital or else install the software tweaks to enable USB audio connection (very easy to do). Then spend some time playing with it getting used to the idea of controlling playback through a screen, and having a vast library available but not in physical form. That's actually a bigger change than most people realize and despite the benefits some people end up getting information overload, and end up preferring disc-based playback. 
  
 If you love the Touch but want to go further then you could explore more expensive options.


----------



## xaval

project86 said:


> So I'd say computers are more consistently good but perhaps have a harder time achieving greatness. I hope that makes sense.


 
 You nailed it pretty well!


----------



## ellevoid

Just got my V281 today, 1st impression with HE-6 is very good. Can't wait to pair with HD800.


----------



## daveyston23

ellevoid said:


> Just got my V281 today, 1st impression with HE-6 is very good. Can't wait to pair with HD800.


 

 Congratulations!!
  
 i wonder how the HE6 + V281 pairing compares to HE6 speaker amp pairings...


----------



## mulder01

The thing almost is a speaker amp!
  
 I use this amp with an Abyss and I normally listen to it around 11:00 - 1:00 on +0 gain.  I can't imagine anyone running out of power with this thing.
  
 Does anyone use the +12 gain setting?


----------



## Xenophon

daveyston23 said:


> Congratulations!!
> 
> i wonder how the HE6 + V281 pairing compares to HE6 speaker amp pairings...


 

 Given that a V200 was already powerful enough to get a decent result out of the HE-6, I imagine the 281 balanced will be very good. If I could easily get my hands on one I'd love to compare it with my F5 clone, that's the ruler of the roost with my HE-6 at the moment.  My guesstimate is it'll be a matter of signature preference / footprint / convenience (volume control) and price (an F5 can be built for about 1k EUR, good enclosure included).


----------



## daveyston23

mulder01 said:


> The thing almost is a speaker amp!
> 
> I use this amp with an Abyss and I normally listen to it around 11:00 - 1:00 on +0 gain.  I can't imagine anyone running out of power with this thing.
> 
> Does anyone use the +12 gain setting?


 
  


xenophon said:


> Given that a V200 was already powerful enough to get a decent result out of the HE-6, I imagine the 281 balanced will be very good. If I could easily get my hands on one I'd love to compare it with my F5 clone, that's the ruler of the roost with my HE-6 at the moment.  My guesstimate is it'll be a matter of signature preference / footprint / convenience (volume control) and price (an F5 can be built for about 1k EUR, good enclosure included).


 

 Thanks for the feedback folks!
  
 ....unfortunately, it was not what my wallet wanted to hear lol


----------



## ellevoid

With a little burn-in V281 is very good with HE6 but not so good on HD800. I think HD800 paired with my old Auralic Taurus Mk2 was better. 

But maybe after 200-300 hours of burn-in it might sound better than Taurus (hopefully). 

Has anyone here already pass 300 hours of burn in for v281?


----------



## plakat

ellevoid said:


> With a little burn-in V281 is very good with HE6 but not so good on HD800. I think HD800 paired with my old Auralic Taurus Mk2 was better.
> 
> But maybe after 200-300 hours of burn-in it might sound better than Taurus (hopefully).
> 
> Has anyone here already pass 300 hours of burn in for v281?


 

 I'd not expect anything of that... if you don't like it at first, you might get accustomed over time. But in my experience the first hours are exemplary. Did you sell your Taurus?


----------



## PleasantSounds

ellevoid said:


> With a little burn-in V281 is very good with HE6 but not so good on HD800. I think HD800 paired with my old Auralic Taurus Mk2 was better.
> 
> But maybe after 200-300 hours of burn-in it might sound better than Taurus (hopefully).
> 
> Has anyone here already pass 300 hours of burn in for v281?


 

 I had an opposite impression: V281 / HD800 sounds to me better than Taurus mk2. Perhaps it's a matter of source. Did you compare them balanced?


----------



## JeffMann

pleasantsounds said:


> I had an opposite impression: V281 / HD800 sounds to me better than Taurus mk2. Perhaps it's a matter of source. Did you compare them balanced?




I think that it is so difficult to evaluate whether a specific headamp (eg. V281) is better with a specific headphone (eg. HD800) because of variations in source components. I have a V281/HD800 combo which works very well. It now sounds even much better since I changed my source from a Sony 54000ES CD-player to a PS Audio PWT-Anedio D2 DAC combination. I strongly suspect that the Anedio D2 is the major factor that makes my headphone-based system sound even much better - especially in terms of the transient attack speed of musical sounds (eg. piano) and in terms of micro-detail retrieval. I cannot thank Project86 enough for his positive review of the Anedio D2, because it definitely influenced me into auditioning the Anedio D2, which I instantly loved. 

By the way, the Anedio D2 is now available for $890 because Anedio is running a holiday sale for 1 month.

Jeff.


----------



## maro73

Hello
 I am quite new to the headphone world , and fell short with the HD800
 Then I started searching for an amp which could deliver music without the sort of harshness I was experiencing (especially with badly recorded music)
 I was offered the Hugo for a good price but I don't think that the former is a superb amplifier for the HD800
 I phone Lake People and had a gentlemen there on the phone
 He was simply great in the explanation and really convinced me to buy one
 I took the plunge , and a dealer had one in stock (fully motorised one , the high end model )
 No evaluation of sound till now , but I'll write something soon
 I had the gain set in the upwards at +6db , volume is at 12 for me , with the HD800
 HOWEVER , a thing intrigues me .. when I use the remote control to increase the volume , there is a tac tac tac sound which comes out of the chassis and not the earphone .. is this phenomenon normale ?
 IS this a purely mechanical problem or a defect ?
 Thanks for the reply and comment


----------



## mulder01

maro73 said:


> Hello
> I am quite new to the headphone world , and fell short with the HD800
> Then I started searching for an amp which could deliver music without the sort of harshness I was experiencing (especially with badly recorded music)
> I was offered the Hugo for a good price but I don't think that the former is a superb amplifier for the HD800
> ...


 
  
 If you have the high end model, the volume control switches relays for every step in the volume.  
 It should make the same noise when you turn the knob by hand though.  
 The cheaper models won't make this noise.


----------



## ellevoid

I use NAD M51 in balanced mode as source but I didn't compare them directly because I already sold my Taurus. So I compared to what I recalled from my memory.
  
 My Taurus was burned for 400+ hours before I sold it and it sound very good with HD800 and HE6 after 400 hours.
  
 Another thing was that I used JPS AC+ power cord with Taurus but stock power cord for V281.


----------



## sugarshark

ellevoid said:


> I use NAD M51 in balanced mode as source but I didn't compare them directly because I already sold my Taurus. So I compared to what I recalled from my memory.
> 
> My Taurus was burned for 400+ hours before I sold it and it sound very good with HD800 and HE6 after 400 hours.
> 
> Another thing was that I used JPS AC+ power cord with Taurus but stock power cord for V281.


 
  
 Could you elaborate on your experiencing combining the M51 and V281? were you happy with the sound and consider keeping it long term?
  
 im contemplating getting that combination (have m51 already) so very interested in hearing your opinions


----------



## plakat

maro73 said:


> HOWEVER , a thing intrigues me .. when I use the remote control to increase the volume , there is a tac tac tac sound which comes out of the chassis and not the earphone .. is this phenomenon normale ?
> IS this a purely mechanical problem or a defect ?


 
  
 Yes, thats normal if you have the relay-based volume control. There may even be some clicks through the headphones while changing volume (though never when not moving the volume knob). As Fried mentioned this is a fact of the implementation and can't be avoided.


----------



## xaval

mulder01 said:


> If you have the high end model, the volume control switches relays for every step in the volume.
> It should make the same noise when you turn the knob by hand though.
> The cheaper models won't make this noise.


 
 Cheaper model gets less sound


----------



## roskodan

ellevoid said:


> With a little burn-in V281 is very good with HE6 but not so good on HD800. I think HD800 paired with my old Auralic Taurus Mk2 was better.
> 
> But maybe after 200-300 hours of burn-in it might sound better than Taurus (hopefully).
> 
> Has anyone here already pass 300 hours of burn in for v281?


 
  
 what are the differences that made you enjoy better the taurus mk2 with the hd800? btw, single ended or balanced?


----------



## Tony1110

jeffmann said:


> I think that it is so difficult to evaluate whether a specific headamp (eg. V281) is better with a specific headphone (eg. HD800) because of variations in source components. I have a V281/HD800 combo which works very well. It now sounds even much better since I changed my source from a Sony 54000ES CD-player to a PS Audio PWT-Anedio D2 DAC combination. I strongly suspect that the Anedio D2 is the major factor that makes my headphone-based system sound even much better - especially in terms of the transient attack speed of musical sounds (eg. piano) and in terms of micro-detail retrieval. I cannot thank Project86 enough for his positive review of the Anedio D2, because it definitely influenced me into auditioning the Anedio D2, which I instantly loved.
> 
> By the way, the Anedio D2 is now available for $890 because Anedio is running a holiday sale for 1 month.
> 
> Jeff.




That sounds like a great deal. I'd have jumped on it but they don't ship outside the US


----------



## navigavi

My v281 arrived today. I'm extremely excited about testing it out with my v800 dac and my hd800. The problem is...I can't get it to work.
  
 The v281 leds are all flashing on and off. I have XLR enabled, feeding it from my v800 with balanced cables. The dac is feeding the signal properly, tested it with my v200.
  
 The manual says something about it though:

 Quote:


> _Adverse DC voltage should be kept from your headphones at all_
> _times. If DC is detected, the headphone outputs will be_
> _disconnected, indicated by the red “MUTE” LED flashing and the_
> _green “HEAD” LED lit. The detection interval is about five seconds._
> ...


 
  
 Main difference is that head, mute and line all three are flashing. Does anyone have an idea why this is happening and how I can get my v281 to work? Thanks!


----------



## Xenophon

If I were you I'd leave it disconnected and get touch with Violectric ASAP, something's not right (especially if the XLR feed from V800-->V200 doesn't give problems), don't risk damaging your gear.  Might just be a connection problem/error.  Bummer if this happens when you just receive new gear but better safe than sorry.


----------



## navigavi

Thanks Xenophon, I've disconnected it for now and contacted Fried about the issue. Hopefully he can help me.


----------



## xaval

navigavi said:


> Thanks Xenophon, I've disconnected it for now and contacted Fried about the issue. Hopefully he can help me.


 
 He will. And I'm speaking from personal experience.


----------



## project86

Contacting Fried was the right choice. The only other thing I would have suggested would have been unplug everything, move the unit to a completely different outlet (preferably on the other side of the house), and try it again - this time with nothing else connected, just the AC cable. See if it powers up normally that way or what. But maybe it will be best to wait for Fried at this point.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Reading here how different pre-gain settings people use I decided to play with it a bit, especially as at zero pre-gain my volume knob sits usually between 10 and 11. But...
 In my amp the pre-gain selectors appear not to be working: whichever switch I select makes no difference at all. 
 By default all switches are in down position and lifting any of them changes nothing at all. And yes - I do everything by the book.
  
 Wondering if this is an isolated case - especially as it's hard to believe that people use the same headphones at the two extreme settings.


----------



## navigavi

project86 said:


> Contacting Fried was the right choice. The only other thing I would have suggested would have been unplug everything, move the unit to a completely different outlet (preferably on the other side of the house), and try it again - this time with nothing else connected, just the AC cable. See if it powers up normally that way or what. But maybe it will be best to wait for Fried at this point.


 
  
 Tried your suggestion. Both HEAD and MUTE leds are flashing. Doesn't seem right to me. Still waiting for Fried to respond. But your input on this is highly appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## plakat

pleasantsounds said:


> Reading here how different pre-gain settings people use I decided to play with it a bit, especially as at zero pre-gain my volume knob sits usually between 10 and 11. But...
> In my amp the pre-gain selectors appear not to be working: whichever switch I select makes no difference at all.
> By default all switches are in down position and lifting any of them changes nothing at all. And yes - I do everything by the book.
> 
> Wondering if this is an isolated case - especially as it's hard to believe that people use the same headphones at the two extreme settings.


 

Which input do you use? Pre-gain applies only to the analog in as far as I know, so a digital in (if installed) is not affected by that setting.
 edit: scrap that -- manual diagrams say all inputs are affected by pre-gain.


----------



## Tony1110

plakat said:


> Which input do you use? PRe-gain applies only to the analog in as far as I know, so a digital in (if installed) is not affected by that setting.




I'm pretty sure that is not correct. I've not used the pre-gain much, but upon receiving the amp I set it to -12 and cranked the volume knob all the way up and found the volume to be comfortable. There's no way I could do that on the setting I use now (-6). I use the USB input.


----------



## plakat

Hm, the block diagram does indeed show pre-gain switches positioned after the digital input... which is in contrast to my memory of Fried telling some other guy digital in were not affected by the pre-gain setting.
  
 Anyway -- both block diagrams in the manual does say digital inputs *are* affected by pre-gain.


----------



## PleasantSounds

plakat said:


> Hm, the block diagram does indeed show pre-gain switches positioned after the digital input... which is in contrast to my memory of Fried telling some other guy digital in were not affected by the pre-gain setting.
> 
> Anyway -- both block diagrams in the manual does say digital inputs *are* affected by pre-gain.


 
  
 That's what I read from the diagram too: pre-gain should affect all inputs.
 So far I have tested it with XLR only.


----------



## Tony1110

pleasantsounds said:


> That's what I read from the diagram too: pre-gain should affect all inputs.
> So far I have tested it with XLR only.




Sounds like Fried is going to have a full inbox this morning. Did you switch the amp off, turn the volume all the way down and operate the dip switches one at a time, exactly the same on both sides? I know you said that you'd gone by the book. Just checking.


----------



## PleasantSounds

tony1110 said:


> Sounds like Fried is going to have a full inbox this morning. Did you switch the amp off, turn the volume all the way down and operate the dip switches one at a time, exactly the same on both sides? I know you said that you'd gone by the book. Just checking.


 
  
 Followed the manual to the letter - just to make sure. 
  
 EDIT: OK - I found out what was wrong. I assumed that the pre-gain jumpers would affect the preamp output as well. They don't. And I was testing on speakers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The diagram on page 13 shows a block that controls the output level (but that's controlled by internal jumpers), and indeed the signal for the preamp is taken before the pre-gain block. Something I missed before. So all good.
  
 Just regarding the voodoo related to changing the pre-gain switches: none of that is really necessary. It works without switching the amp off, without turning the volume pot down to zero, and you don't have to switch the channels in sync. This is just to make the procedure idiotproof.


----------



## Tony1110

pleasantsounds said:


> Followed the manual to the letter - just to make sure.
> 
> EDIT: OK - I found out what was wrong. I assumed that the pre-gain jumpers would affect the preamp output as well. They don't. And I was testing on speakers :rolleyes:
> 
> ...




I kind of thought so to be honest. I messed with the pre-gain before reading the manual and I didn't turn the volume down. It worked fine. I'm glad your amp is good.


----------



## plakat

turning volume down is a good idea though, you might get a klicking noise operating the dip switches... and turn your source off and/or disconnect your headphones: a +6dB change is about 4 times the power.


----------



## xaval

I'm yet to get accustomed to the v220 sound sig in default settings so it's good to read all the discussion re the pre-gain idiosyncrasies


----------



## project86

I think there _was _a comment sometime prior about pregain not doing anything to the digital input. But I always took that to mean - no lost bits since the attentuation happens in the analog domain. But now I see how there could be confusion.
  
  
 Quote:


navigavi said:


> Tried your suggestion. Both HEAD and MUTE leds are flashing. Doesn't seem right to me. Still waiting for Fried to respond. But your input on this is highly appreciated. Thanks!


 
  
 Odd, there must be something going on inside the case. Perhaps a connection worked itself loose while in transit, or something like that. I got an email from Fried very recently so I'm sure you will hear from him soon.


----------



## navigavi

project86 said:


> Odd, there must be something going on inside the case. Perhaps a connection worked itself loose while in transit, or something like that. I got an email from Fried very recently so I'm sure you will hear from him soon.


 
  
 I've got a response from him. He told me that the amp has detected DC current which may hurt the headphones, so the headphone sockets are switched off.
  
 Then he asked me a few questions to try figure out what might cause this, my answer on them below:


> *- Will the LEDs flash directly after power-on?*
> Yes, the leds flash directly after the power is on.
> 
> *- What happens without input signal, with unbalanced cables connected or switched to the digital input*?
> ...


 
  
 Hopefully this clears things out. I appreciate his help very much.


----------



## xaval

navigavi said:


> I've got a response from him. He told me that the amp has detected DC current which may hurt the headphones, so the headphone sockets are switched off.
> 
> Then he asked me a few questions to try figure out what might cause this, my answer on them below:
> 
> Hopefully this clears things out. I appreciate his help very much.


 
 Have you visited a friend and plugged the amp on his house just for checking?


----------



## maro73

Hello Folks
Thanks for the reply
I thank also Fried from lake people for the quick reply
Some impressions :
Solid build
Looks nice and massif
Sonically : well i'm still reserved so still experiencing the stuff .. Surprisingly sound is so clear that i hear too much DECAY .. Changed the dac music is same with decay .. Is it the music or dac or violectric
I changed cables : no change
My source is the Auralic Aries sending music to the chord hugo feeding the violectric v281 via RCA
Cheers anf thanks


----------



## muah

Wonder how many people are feeding their V281 via Hugo?!?!

It is my musical bliss now!!!

Have since placed the Hugo on the side of my V281.


----------



## project86

I use that combo as well, quite nice.


----------



## navigavi

xaval said:


> Have you visited a friend and plugged the amp on his house just for checking?


 

 I have not, and I don't know it's worth trying anymore. Yesterday I tried another power outlet in the house, near the ground. By accident I found out that if I lightly touch/press down on the top of the case of the amp, I hear a switch click and both HEAD and LINE leds are on. No flashing. As soon as I release the amp from touching down on the top of the case all three leds are flashing again.
  
 Sounds to me there's something not right inside the amp. No response from Fried yet on the finding, what do you think this could mean? Going to open up the case this afternoon to see if I can detect anything.


----------



## Xenophon

navigavi said:


> I have not, and I don't know it's worth trying anymore. Yesterday I tried another power outlet in the house, near the ground. By accident I found out that if I lightly touch/press down on the top of the cage of the amp, I hear a switch click and both HEAD and LINE leds are on. No flashing. As soon as I release the amp from touching down on the top of the cage all three leds are flashing again.
> 
> Sounds to me there's something not right inside the amp. No response from Fried yet on the finding, what do you think this could mean? Going to open up the cage this afternoon to see if I can detect anything.


 

 My guess is a loose connector somewhere.  Only open the case if you're sure it won't void the warranty.  And although it's not a tube amp, be careful (shock).


----------



## plakat

Yes, sounds very much like a connection problem, maybe something is not seated properly or some part is touching the case etc.
  
 Opening the case should not be a problem since the user manual outlines how to change jumper settings inside. Taking a look should be no problem.


----------



## fdg

Hello Everbody.
  
 I like to inform you about our new (higher) prices for selected models valid from 1st of January 2015
 The listed prices are the European prices without VAT.
 Please aks Arthur Power from   www.violectric-usa.com  for detailed US prices.
  
 New prices from beginning of 2015:
 V200 = 756,30 Euro
 V220 = 1176,47 Euro
 V281 = 1596,64 Euro

 All other Violectric products will have the current prices which are stable since 2010 !
  
 So, if you want to save some money, dont hesitate to order THIS year.
 We expect some delivery delays in the beginning of the new year 
 Please note that in case of an order you will not be charged with any (pre)payment until your unit is ready to be delivered !!
 Also we grant your right of revocation which can be performed by simply not paying the pro-forma invoice which is send to you when your goods are ready to be delivered.
 Of course (in case you changed your mind) it would be more polite to inform us in advance to ease things and not to produce office operations in vain ...
  
 Best Regards
  
 Fried Reim
 (CEO of Lake People and Violectric)


----------



## xaval

navigavi said:


> I have not, and I don't know it's worth trying anymore. Yesterday I tried another power outlet in the house, near the ground. By accident I found out that if I lightly touch/press down on the top of the case of the amp, I hear a switch click and both HEAD and LINE leds are on. No flashing. As soon as I release the amp from touching down on the top of the case all three leds are flashing again.
> 
> Sounds to me there's something not right inside the amp. No response from Fried yet on the finding, what do you think this could mean? Going to open up the case this afternoon to see if I can detect anything.


 
 I assumed you already had opened the box and tried to reseat all plugs/cables/ribbons. Just check the manual on how to do that - it's fool proof and completely safe. If it doesn't work, I suggest you start thinking about packing and resending the box to Lake People. You pay your shipping on the way in, and Lake Peolpe will pay for the shipping cost on the way back to you.


----------



## navigavi

xaval said:


> I assumed you already had opened the box and tried to reseat all plugs/cables/ribbons. Just check the manual on how to do that - it's fool proof and completely safe. If it doesn't work, I suggest you start thinking about packing and resending the box to Lake People. You pay your shipping on the way in, and Lake Peolpe will pay for the shipping cost on the way back to you.


 
  
 Thanks Xaval, that's exactly my plan. When I get home I'm opening the case and reseat all plugs, cables and ribbons. If that doesn't help I'll send the v281 back for repair. That's what Fried also suggested today. He's been very helpful with all this.


----------



## xaval

fdg said:


> Hello Everbody.
> 
> 
> Fried Reim
> (CEO of Lake People and Violectric)


 
 Good to see you around Fried Reim.
  
 A price rise should prove to be a nice incentive on getting one of those bad boys for the Xmas tree!


----------



## navigavi

Alright then. Opened up the cage, inspected the plugs, cables, ribbons, and saw nothing strange or unexpected. Closed up the cage, power on and all is working properly. It's a mistery to me. Perhaps the casing wasn't closed properly and opening and closing it again fixed to problem.
  
 Now it's finally time to enjoy some music with my self re-terminated hd800. Thank you all for the support!


----------



## plakat

navigavi said:


> Alright then. Opened up the cage, inspected the plugs, cables, ribbons, and saw nothing strange or unexpected. Closed up the cage, power on and all is working properly. It's a mistery to me. Perhaps the casing wasn't closed properly and opening and closing it again fixed to problem.
> 
> Now it's finally time to enjoy some music with my self re-terminated hd800. Thank you all for the support!


 

 Glad to hear that 
 Nice stack btw. Enjoy!


----------



## roskodan

in fact i had some issues, btw which were reported to violectric, with the v200 where the nextel finish was isolating the usb input shield/ground and the various plates of the case (which are electrically coupled by the screws holding them together) from being coupled, also had to scratch some of it off where the xlr inputs are because i had no shield to ground contact when setting the xlr ground jumper to shield, so it is titally possible that re-screwing fixed it


----------



## xaval

navigavi said:


> Alright then. Opened up the cage, inspected the plugs, cables, ribbons, and saw nothing strange or unexpected. Closed up the cage, power on and all is working properly. It's a mistery to me. Perhaps the casing wasn't closed properly and opening and closing it again fixed to problem.
> 
> Now it's finally time to enjoy some music with my self re-terminated hd800. Thank you all for the support!


 
 That rig is full of win! Enjoy your music


----------



## project86

I'm glad it is sorted, and hope that's the last you'll see of any issues. My V200 has given me years of trouble-free service and I hope the same for you.
  
 And yes, that stack is killer! I love the silver I chose but everytime I see a black version I second guess myself.... I guess there's no bad choice in this case.


----------



## roskodan

> And yes, that stack is killer! I love the silver I chose but everytime I see a black version I second guess myself.... I guess there's no bad choice in this case.


 
 i'm sure you can order the black front panel from violectric


----------



## sugarshark

xaval said:


> I assumed you already had opened the box and tried to reseat all plugs/cables/ribbons. Just check the manual on how to do that - it's fool proof and completely safe. If it doesn't work, I suggest you start thinking about packing and resending the box to Lake People. You pay your shipping on the way in, and Lake Peolpe will pay for the shipping cost on the way back to you.


 
  
 hmm as a potential buyer, gotta say that doesnt sound attractive - at all.  paying >2000 EUR for a unit not working on delivery, then paying to return it for repair?? At this price things should not be coming loose during shipping.
  
 Seems to be a common issue that these units do not work when they are delivered without users poking around in the case - at least 3 in this thread?
  
 Fried are you planning on making any changes to prevent this happening in future?


----------



## JeffMann

navigavi said:


> Alright then. Opened up the cage, inspected the plugs, cables, ribbons, and saw nothing strange or unexpected. Closed up the cage, power on and all is working properly. It's a mistery to me. Perhaps the casing wasn't closed properly and opening and closing it again fixed to problem.
> 
> Now it's finally time to enjoy some music with my self re-terminated hd800. Thank you all for the support!




I am totally baffled by the "fact" that simply opening and then closing the case solved your problem. Does anybody have a rational explanation?

Jeff.


----------



## Xenophon

jeffmann said:


> I am totally baffled by the "fact" that simply opening and then closing the case solved your problem. Does anybody have a rational explanation?
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
 My guess is that there was some connector somewhere that was improperly seated, made marginal contact and caused the problems.  Or something with the grounding as was mentioned.  If you then open the case and fidlle a bit with the wiring, press on the connections....if only it were always that easy.


----------



## navigavi

xenophon said:


> My guess is that there was some connector somewhere that was improperly seated, made marginal contact and caused the problems.  Or something with the grounding as was mentioned.  If you then open the case and fidlle a bit with the wiring, press on the connections....if only it were always that easy.


 

 I don't even think it was a connector being improperly seated. Honestly, I didn't really touch a thing inside. Everything looked fine, solid and in perfect shape. It even smelled good. Like the inside of a car the first time you ride it. So after some short admiration I closed the case again and everything looked good from the moment I hit the power button.
  
 But enough of that. I have been listening yesterday evening to some various music and my first impression is that it's without a doubt a direct noticable improvement over the v200/v800 stack. The first thing I noticed is the bigger soundstage. It's obvious from the first 10 seconds in a lossless michael jackson track, thriller. Michael Jackson albums have very good recordings I think. Some sounds/instruments feel like to be coming from behind my ears. It's something the v200 always felt a little short on. This is the first time I can compare the v200 with anything else, so now I feel I can say it out of experience, though it has been based on only one night of listening.
  
 The second thing is detail. The v281, on balanced mode, is very detailed. Music I've been listening for a long time even gets more detailed with the v281 compared to the v200. There's things I never recognized earlier in certain tracks with the v200. The soundstage must be contributing to this too I think. More separation and more detail.
  
 Then there's the fact that there's more power. Haven't touched the pre gain settings, it's still all default. Same as with my v200, always used default settings. With the v200 I listened with the volume pot going to max. 12 'o clock on loud listening sessions. Some records sound louder, so for them it might be max 01.00 'o clock. With the v281 I haven't gone over 10.00 'o clock. Again, based on one night. Listening to quite a diverse collection of music.
  
 The lows are slightly improved in my experience as well. There's a bit more slam and more a feeling like when things really go low I get the experience like if things are really shaking. Can't express it very well, it's like with big speakers in the cinema for example. It's quite impressive.
  
 The build quality is very solid. I think I could jump on the case and it still wouldn't make a dent. Also the inside has been thought through very well.
  
 These have been my first impressions so far comparing the v200/v800 to the v281/v800 stack on balanced interconnects, and balanced hd800 cables. I haven't used unbalanced or even other headphones like my hd580, which I really like as well for when I'm not using any amp. The 580 always sounds good without even proper amplification. Thats why it's my office headphone.
  
 It's unforunate about the fact that I had to open and close the case before I could get it to work, but the service provided by Fried and his team is top notch. I think the first thing Fried does when he wakes up in the morning is opening his mail box and answer support mails. I wouldn't let yourself get discouraged by it. The v200 is really good, and the v281 surpasses and sets the bar even higher. It's worth it every euro.


----------



## hoadie

fdg said:


> Hello Everbody.
> 
> I like to inform you about our new (higher) prices for selected models valid from 1st of January 2015
> The listed prices are the European prices without VAT.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the heads-up!  Will Lake People products (G-103/G-109) go up in price, too?


----------



## Jodet

$1670 for a V220?  
  
 That's kiss of death.   Just don't see that product being worth almost two grand. 
  
 If I don't buy one before January I never will.  
  
 A pity to see companies pricing themselves out of the market.


----------



## Mehve

That does seem like a fairly hefty price increase. I'm definitely loving my new V281, but that upcoming price would have made me look harder at some other options out there. On the other hand, if the market is supporting it, can't begrudge success.


----------



## mulder01

hoadie said:


> Thanks for the heads-up!  Will Lake People products (G-103/G-109) go up in price, too?


 
  
 No, just the 3 amps.
  
 You actually quoted the answer to your question


----------



## sugarshark

mehve said:


> That does seem like a fairly hefty price increase. I'm definitely loving my new V281, but that upcoming price would have made me look harder at some other options out there. On the other hand, if the market is supporting it, can't begrudge success.


 
  
 i finally got to demo a V281 today. sounded fantastic. Actually the V200 sounded great as well, but the 281 just had more authority on the balanced output. I came very close to buying it but decided to take the weekend to think it over instead.
  
 i agree re price rise though, it's borderline for me currently, i'm not interested in paying higher. In australia we are about to get hit with another price rise due to currency fluctionations. Don't know how much it will go up exactly but i'd guess vc2 will go from current AUD$3050 to probably close to AUD$3800 when both come into effect...


----------



## saxelrod92

sugarshark said:


> i finally got to demo a V281 today. sounded fantastic. Actually the V200 sounded great as well, but the 281 just had more authority on the balanced output. I came very close to buying it but decided to take the weekend to think it over instead.
> 
> i agree re price rise though, it's borderline for me currently, i'm not interested in paying higher. In australia we are about to get hit with another price rise due to currency fluctionations. Don't know how much it will go up exactly but i'd guess vc2 will go from current AUD$3050 to probably close to AUD$3800 when both come into effect...


 

 Honestly I have been with the amp since it first came out in North America, and after all this time, and using a good selection of the high end headphones out today, I really can't see any logical reason to want another amp for a good long time. Unless you're into tube rolling. I would advise picking it up before the prices go up.


----------



## TomNC

@ saxelrod92
  
 I read that the V281's sound signature is on the warm side. With your LCD-2, do you feel the amp makes it a bit too warm?
  
 Have you ever just got a chance to listen to any Cavalli Liquid amp? I wonder how the V281 differs from the Cavalli in sound.
  
 The upcoming price rise of the v281 makes it more appealing to me now. Thanks.


----------



## Viper2005

tomnc said:


> @ saxelrod92
> 
> I read that the V281's sound signature is on the warm side. With your LCD-2, do you feel the amp makes it a bit too warm?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I find it is quite a bit less warm than the V200 was.    There is definitely more to the top end on the v281.


----------



## TomNC

@ Viper2005
  
 Thanks for your comment. That is a good thing to hear about the V281. Since you got the Ragnarok as well, how would do characterize their differences?


----------



## saxelrod92

tomnc said:


> @ saxelrod92
> 
> I read that the V281's sound signature is on the warm side. With your LCD-2, do you feel the amp makes it a bit too warm?
> 
> ...


 

 I have not heard a cavalli amp yet, but the V281 definitely does not sound warm to me. its pretty much dead neutral, slightly organic. If it was warm then the hd800, and he-560 I tested using this amp would not have sounded the way they are supposed to sound (hd800 bright, but full, he-560 neutral but hollow). and lcd-2 sounds exactly like an lcd-2 sounds. I have the pre-fazor version though, and am selling it because it was too laidback. I either will stick with the alpha primes right now, or return them, and just get the fazor lcd-2. Either way, the amp doesnt feel like it imparts a sound signature at all. I honestly feel like I'm listening to my dac, and then the audio source more than anything. The amp kinda just disappears, but is always effortlessly doing its job with high levels of quality. I'd say, and it seems others have also said, that this is a great all rounder amp. If just want an amp that will do everything, extremely well, no matter what, this is it. Only specific situations, when you want a specific coloration, would warrant some other amp. I will say it definitely gave me piece of mind when I got this amp, and I dont feel any reason to spend more money on anything for a long time. It just works, thats the best praise I can give it lol.


----------



## TomNC

@ Saxelrod92
  
 Thanks for your input, which makes the V281 even more attractive.


----------



## mulder01

sugarshark said:


> i finally got to demo a V281 today. sounded fantastic. Actually the V200 sounded great as well, but the 281 just had more authority on the balanced output. I came very close to buying it but decided to take the weekend to think it over instead.
> 
> i agree re price rise though, it's borderline for me currently, i'm not interested in paying higher. In australia we are about to get hit with another price rise due to currency fluctionations. Don't know how much it will go up exactly but i'd guess vc2 will go from current AUD$3050 to probably close to AUD$3800 when both come into effect...


 
  
 I got my v281 a couple of months ago as part of a package deal and paid in the low 2000's (AUD).  
  
 If you wait until next year and pay the retail price for the top model, all that you'll get for your extra $1500ish is a better volume knob (which is unnecessary IMO).  I'd jump on it now if you can.


----------



## project86

It's never fun to see a price increase, but I gotta say it does make sense. I've thought the V281 was underpriced right from the start. It was slightly less expensive than the Auralic Taurus for example, and now it is slightly more than that device (but not by much). Meanwhile Violectric doesn't have the benefit of cheaper labor - they build it all in Germany. The two units are vaguely similar in complexity so it seems like a fair comparison.


----------



## Xenophon

I don't know but at these price levels and if you think you really need all that power, I'd seriously consider a low power, low noise speaker amp to drive my headphones or efficient speakers.  I still own a V200 but for my HE-6 (and HD-800) I also use a FirstWatt F5 clone speaker amp.  Built for around 1k EUR.  Of course, no volume control on the unit so you'd need a passive pre or good dac volume control and you don't have a remote.  Oodles of power, very low noise floor and a VERY clean, quick sound (in fact more neutral than my V200, perhaps too neutral for enjoyment by some) at a fraction of the price.
  
 Depends of what one wants I suppose.  Anyway, I'd still like to audition a V281 but my last effort stranded when a shop assistant told me they didn't ave the unit (which I booked for auditioning) available.  Unfortunately after I drove 250 km to get there.


----------



## Viper2005

tomnc said:


> @ Viper2005
> 
> Thanks for your comment. That is a good thing to hear about the V281. Since you got the Ragnarok as well, how would do characterize their differences?


 
  
 Still trying to articulate my thoughts on the two.  But my impression so far is, that the Rag is smooth.  Very smooth.  I find the 281's new top end can be strident at times, giving slight sibilance to poorly mastered songs where I don't hear that sibilance on the Rag.  Iggy Azalea's album "The New Classic"  is a prime example of this.  I'm not sure if I can say the very top end of the Rag is rolled off, but it sounds like it.  The 281 seems overall warmer though, there is definitely more there in the lower mids and bass.  The Rag sounds a bit leaner in that regard, but digs deeper into the lowest of the bass, if that makes any sense...  anyways I still need more time to listen, and I will come back with a better comparison!
 (FYI the comparison was done with Yulong DA8 DAC on the Rag, and I tried both the DA8 and the internal DAC (coax) on the V281.  Headphone used was LCD-X.  I've not done any critical listening with the HD800 yet)


----------



## xaval

xenophon said:


> Anyway, I'd still like to audition a V281 but my last effort stranded when a shop assistant told me they didn't ave the unit (which I booked for auditioning) available.  Unfortunately after I drove 250 km to get there.


 
 Wow! I'd have made a very serious row with that. A call back to you saying "We're sorry, but we just sold the unit" or something before travelling would make it all good.
  
 Better luck next time with another dealer! Not sure of Thomann has a restocking fee... but you could just order one and return it if you don't think it's good enough, although I hate doing that, but under your position as you already own a v200 would be justified, imo.
  
 On another note, I'm a bit disappointed with the DAC board - I bought the Optical version. My other DACs are easily overall better.


----------



## Tony1110

xaval said:


> Wow! I'd have made a very serious row with that. A call back to you saying "We're sorry, but we just sold the unit" or something before travelling would make it all good.
> 
> Better luck next time with another dealer! Not sure of Thomann has a restocking fee... but you could just order one and return it if you don't think it's good enough, although I hate doing that, but under your position as you already own a v200 would be justified, imo.
> 
> On another note, I'm a bit disappointed with the DAC board - I bought the Optical version. My other DACs are easily overall better.




I think the on board DAC is adequate but not brilliant. I wasn't expecting world-class performance so it hasn't really disappointed me. I'm starting to think that an amp of the V281's calibre deserves better, though.


----------



## xaval

I'm sorry. When I said disappointed was in a sense that I was looking for a one box solution with the v220 and the DAC board was just perfect.
  
 Looking at it's price, even discounting the fact that you don't buy thinks like an enclosure - and Violectric boxes must be expensive on their own as they are extremely well built and machined - the DAC has no faults.
  
 It's just it is left behind with my other DACs by a good margin. I think I'll need to adjust to a 2 box solution later. To be honest, I'm under a week with only 2 or 3 hours of listening a day with it, so maybe some burn in is required as typical and some things will change, but it these miracles happened I'm sure most of the people who have owned the unit with the internal DAC would have already mentioned it.
  
 For customers looking at a single ended amp, because they don't have or don't plan on getting balanced headphones, the V220 is reference class material. Especially for people who plan on rolling headphones more than amps. This probably has enough "power" to rule everything (I still haven't played with pre-gain or internal jumpers). I don't think I need any more amps with this one - it seems that good and capable for the little time I've spent with IEMs, through the 600ohm Beyers.


----------



## plakat

xaval said:


> On another note, I'm a bit disappointed with the DAC board - I bought the Optical version. My other DACs are easily overall better.


 
  
 I think most companies come from either analog or digital background and have a bit of a problem crossing to the other side... the V281 is a really good analog amp, the digital boards are adequate but a bit of an afterthought. I have yet to find a combination that does both parts equally well, though as I've heard the MOON NEO 430 HA does both parts very well. Haven't heard it myself though.
  
 I'm quite content with a Benchmark DAC2 HGC feeding the V281 via XLR.


----------



## Xenophon

xaval said:


> Wow! I'd have made a very serious row with that. A call back to you saying "We're sorry, but we just sold the unit" or something before travelling would make it all good.
> 
> Better luck next time with another dealer! Not sure of Thomann has a restocking fee... but you could just order one and return it if you don't think it's good enough, although I hate doing that, but under your position as you already own a v200 would be justified, imo.
> 
> On another note, I'm a bit disappointed with the DAC board - I bought the Optical version. My other DACs are easily overall better.


 

 Well, it was simply bad luck.  A couple of years ago I'd have exploded but I mellowed out a bit (thanks to having lived/worked in India for 6 years) and try not to waste energy yelling at people.  I could order one with Thomann, they have it at 1499 VAT in, then send it back risk free after 30 days but like you, I really don't like doing that, especially because if it sounds like the V200 then I'd probably return it anyway.  Not kicking at the Vio products but I prefer a quicker/lighter sound signature.  Before I got my V800 DAC I also used the drop in DAC module with my V200, think it's basically unchanged.  Didn't like it too much either, frankly, my humble ODAC with RCA out did better.  Anyway, lasted only until I got a good deal on a restocked (Thomann  V800 a couple of months later.


----------



## Tony1110

plakat said:


> I think most companies come from either analog or digital background and have a bit of a problem crossing to the other side... the V281 is a really good analog amp, the digital boards are adequate but a bit of an afterthought. I have yet to find a combination that does both parts equally well, though as I've heard the MOON NEO 430 HA does both parts very well. Haven't heard it myself though.
> 
> I'm quite content with a Benchmark DAC2 HGC feeding the V281 via XLR.




The only true one-box solution I've heard is the Burson Conductor. But I think even there the amp outshines the DAC section. 

I'd be quite content with a DAC2 as well. Unfortunately, Xmas is coming up and I have to limit my spending on myself for a little while


----------



## xaval

plakat said:


> I think most companies come from either analog or digital background and have a bit of a problem crossing to the other side... the V281 is a really good analog amp, the digital boards are adequate but a bit of an afterthought. I have yet to find a combination that does both parts equally well, though as I've heard the MOON NEO 430 HA does both parts very well. Haven't heard it myself though.
> 
> I'm quite content with a Benchmark DAC2 HGC feeding the V281 via XLR.


 
 Yes, from the short experience I have with this combo, the amp really deserves a better DAC. Will wait and see what Fried comes up with in the next couple of years with their new DACs as I don't think I'm disclosing anything secret.
  
 The Moon is out of the question for me: too big and ugly for the desk/office decor. As for the aesthetics I asked Fried if I could have matching silver knobs with for the front plate but he politely said no for understandable reasons - having different faceplates and feet color is complex management as it is.
  


xenophon said:


> Well, it was simply bad luck.  A couple of years ago I'd have exploded but I mellowed out a bit (thanks to having lived/worked in India for 6 years) and try not to waste energy yelling at people.  I could order one with Thomann, they have it at 1499 VAT in, then send it back risk free after 30 days but like you, I really don't like doing that, especially because if it sounds like the V200 then I'd probably return it anyway.  Not kicking at the Vio products but I prefer a quicker/lighter sound signature.  Before I got my V800 DAC I also used the drop in DAC module with my V200, think it's basically unchanged.  Didn't like it too much either, frankly, my humble ODAC with RCA out did better.  Anyway, lasted only until I got a good deal on a restocked (Thomann  V800 a couple of months later.


 
  
 I think there's someone a couple pages back with a v281 and a v200. Maybe he can share some single ended performance feedback. To be honest at some point before getting the V220 I was contemplating the V200, but some of the front panel features and flexibility (well, and the fact that the V220 is the new kid on the block ) turned me to the V220. I need to start looking at some really nice looking, sounding and compact active speakers..


----------



## xaval

tony1110 said:


> The only true one-box solution I've heard is the Burson Conductor. But I think even there the amp outshines the DAC section.
> 
> I'd be quite content with a DAC2 as well. Unfortunately, *Xmas* is coming up and I have to limit my spending on myself for a little while


 
 We need to get rid of that inconvenience!


----------



## JeffMann

xenophon said:


> Well, it was simply bad luck.  A couple of years ago I'd have exploded but I mellowed out a bit (thanks to having lived/worked in India for 6 years) and try not to waste energy yelling at people.  I could order one with Thomann, they have it at 1499 VAT in, then send it back risk free after 30 days but like you, I really don't like doing that, especially because if it sounds like the V200 then I'd probably return it anyway.  *Not kicking at the Vio products but I prefer a quicker/lighter sound signature.  Before I got my V800 DAC I also used the drop in DAC module with my V200, think it's basically unchanged*.  Didn't like it too much either, frankly, my humble ODAC with RCA out did better.  Anyway, lasted only until I got a good deal on a restocked (Thomann  V800 a couple of months later.




You state that you prefer a quicker/lighter sound and you are implying that it may not be possible with the V281. I disagree! I purchased the V281 and initially it had the typical Vioelectric-sound, which is not usually described as being quick/light. However, I have since upgraded my CD-player based system from a Sony 5400ES CD-player to a PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport combined with an Anedio D2 DAC, and now my HD800 headphones produce a very quick and light sound that is very neutral. It amazes me that my HD800 can produce such fast and delicate sounds (like heard from a plucked guitar/mandolin/harp or shimmering cymbals) so very well when driven by the Anedio D2 DAC => V281 (balanced mode) combo.

Jeff.


----------



## Xenophon

jeffmann said:


> You state that you prefer a quicker/lighter sound and you are implying that it may not be possible with the V281. I disagree! I purchased the V281 and initially it had the typical Vioelectric-sound, which is not usually described as being quick/light. However, I have since upgraded my CD-player based system from a Sony 5400ES CD-player to a PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport combined with an Anedio D2 DAC, and now my HD800 headphones produce a very quick and light sound that is very neutral. It amazes me that my HD800 can produce such fast and delicate sounds (like heard from a plucked guitar/mandolin/harp or shimmering cymbals) so very well when driven by the Anedio D2 DAC => V281 (balanced mode) combo.
> 
> Jeff.


 

 I don't know if it's possible with the 281 for the simple reason that I couldn't try it yet to hear for myself.  From what I read here in the thread it seems that this is the case in balanced mode but that the basic Violectric sound signature of the V200 is found in the 220 and -though opinions vary a bit- also in the 281 when in SE mode.  I don't know what you exactly describe as 'lighter/quicker', all I can say is that my Violectric reference, ie the V200, does not fully satisfy me there.  When I compare with my F5 amp (and certainly with my F1 which is simply mounted on breadboard now), be it with HD-800 or HE-6, the difference in detail/clarity and speed is very noticeable in the top end.  To me with the V200, the treble sounds a bit 'smudged' and swapping dacs doesn't change that.  Bass is a real slammer though.


----------



## Eternal Phoenix

xenophon said:


> From what I read here in the thread it seems that this is the case in balanced mode but that the basic Violectric sound signature of the V200 is *found in the 220 and -though opinions vary a bit- also in the 281 when in SE mode.*  I don't know what you exactly describe as 'lighter/quicker', all I can say is that my Violectric reference, ie the V200, does not fully satisfy me there.


 
  
 Am unsure quite what you mean here - the V281's SE mode is the V220. Therefore there is no varying of opinion, they are the same, no?
  
 Or am I just missing something obvious here?
 Thanks.


----------



## xaval

eternal phoenix said:


> Am unsure quite what you mean here - the V281's SE mode is the V220. Therefore there is no varying of opinion, they are the same, no?
> 
> Or am I just missing something obvious here?
> Thanks.


 
 No you're not. V220 and V281 are the same amp in SE. At least, they should be, unless the extra transformer is at play in the V281 in SE.


----------



## plakat

xaval said:


> No you're not. V220 and V281 are the same amp in SE. At least, they should be, unless the extra transformer is at play in the V281 in SE.


 

 As far as I know it is not: the second power supply is solely for the second amp (upper) board, with the larger lower transformer, the same as in the V220, powering all the rest (i.e. lower amp board, in- and output boards etc.)


----------



## JeffMann

xenophon said:


> I don't know if it's possible with the 281 for the simple reason that I couldn't try it yet to hear for myself.  From what I read here in the thread it seems that this is the case in balanced mode but that the basic Violectric sound signature of the V200 is found in the 220 and -though opinions vary a bit- also in the 281 when in SE mode.  I don't know what you exactly describe as 'lighter/quicker', all I can say is that my Violectric reference, ie the V200, does not fully satisfy me there.  When I compare with my F5 amp (and certainly with my F1 which is simply mounted on breadboard now), be it with HD-800 or HE-6, the difference in detail/clarity and speed is very noticeable in the top end.  To me with the V200, the treble sounds a bit 'smudged' and swapping dacs doesn't change that.  Bass is a real slammer though.




I have no problem getting my V200 and V281 to produce fast, detailed and clear sounds at the top end with no smudging - presuming that my CD-player (PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport) is providing a good quality digital signal to the Anedio D2 DAC, which is then transmitted to the amps. Project 86 could usefully comment on this issue because he has an Anedio D2 DAC and he has used it with a V200 and V281 amp.

Jeff.


----------



## project86

jeffmann said:


> I have no problem getting my V200 and V281 to produce fast, detailed and clear sounds at the top end with no smudging - presuming that my CD-player (PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport) is providing a good quality digital signal to the Anedio D2 DAC, which is then transmitted to the amps. Project 86 could usefully comment on this issue because he has an Anedio D2 DAC and he has used it with a V200 and V281 amp.
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
  
 This is how I hear it as well, using an Aurender X100L as transport, to an Audiophilleo 1 with PurePower, then into a good DAC like Anedio D2 or Resonessence Labs Invicta Mirus. The V281, to my ears, is fast and very clear. I do agree that it has more "body" than some other amps though, so perhaps that's what the above poster doesn't like? In the end, no amp is perfect for everyone, so I won't argue if someone doesn't love it.


----------



## Tony1110

I bought an Anedio D2 which will sit nicely in my system alongside the V281 and Alpha Prime headphones (may even purchase the HD800 one day, now that I have a worthy setup). All I need now are some interconnects. Is there any reason why I shouldn't go XLR? I can't find the output voltage for the Anedio and I don't want it to be a problem.

I've just noticed that I'm now a 'Headphoneus Supremus' which probably means that I should be giving answers to the kind of question I've just asked. Silly Head-Fi ranking system.


----------



## xaval

tony1110 said:


> I bought an Anedio D2 which will sit nicely in my system alongside the V281 and Alpha Prime headphones (may even purchase the HD800 one day, now that I have a worthy setup). All I need now are some interconnects. Is there any reason why I shouldn't go XLR? I can't find the output voltage for the Anedio and I don't want it to be a problem.
> 
> I've just noticed that I'm now a 'Headphoneus Supremus' which probably means that I should be giving answers to the kind of question I've just asked. Silly Head-Fi ranking system.


 
 From D2 spec sheet, I googled it 
 http://www.anedio.com/index.php/product/d2_specs
  

Line Output Level:2.0 Vrms (unbalanced)
 4.0 Vrms (balanced)
  
 If the Anedio is truly balanced, I'd go with XLR.
  
 The ranking system is what it is... there's loads of users posting more on the misc forums than anyrhing else... just check on the home page the most active threads vs most daily posters and you'll figure out how "funny" it can be to "pull rank". I'm in no hurry to get there lol


----------



## Tony1110

xaval said:


> From D2 spec sheet, I googled it
> http://www.anedio.com/index.php/product/d2_specs
> 
> 
> ...




I don't know how I missed that. I've just been on their home page and I didn't see it. Thanks. They're pretty much standard specs so XLR shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah lol, the most popular threads seem to be about music games and Japanese animation. Why are so many members into Manga?


----------



## xaval

project86 said:


> This is how I hear it as well, using an Aurender X100L as transport, to an Audiophilleo 1 with PurePower, then into a good DAC like Anedio D2 or Resonessence Labs Invicta Mirus. The V281, to my ears, is fast and very clear. I do agree that it has more "body" than some other amps though, so perhaps that's what the above poster doesn't like? In the end, no amp is perfect for everyone, so I won't argue if someone doesn't love it.


 
 One of the things I love about the amp is it's character: overall full & warmish sound. This can give the idea of it sounding slow. OTH I wouldn't rank it as fast either.
  
 Just listened a bit with the internal DAC again. Things are improving and getting tolerable but I still strain to listen to complex music "looking" for air and microdetails. THIS combo does sound slow when the Bushmaster I is super agile and effortless in comparison (a whole lot better in everything else, really). Let's give this little drop in card a few more days to get up to speed with the amp (see what I did back there?).


----------



## project86

tony1110 said:


> I bought an Anedio D2 which will sit nicely in my system alongside the V281 and Alpha Prime headphones (may even purchase the HD800 one day, now that I have a worthy setup). All I need now are some interconnects. Is there any reason why I shouldn't go XLR? I can't find the output voltage for the Anedio and I don't want it to be a problem.
> 
> I've just noticed that I'm now a 'Headphoneus Supremus' which probably means that I should be giving answers to the kind of question I've just asked. Silly Head-Fi ranking system.


 
  
  
 Yep, you might as well take advantage of the fully balanced signal path from the Anedio. Not that I notice a huge difference over SE, but it's worth going all the way just for the heck of it.


----------



## Tony1110

project86 said:


> Yep, you might as well take advantage of the fully balanced signal path from the Anedio. Not that I notice a huge difference over SE, but it's worth going all the way just for the heck of it.




Yeah, I just bought the balanced interconnects from CCC. That is DEFINITELY my self-indulgent spending over for a few months.


----------



## PleasantSounds

project86 said:


> Yep, you might as well take advantage of the fully balanced signal path from the Anedio. Not that I notice a huge difference over SE, but it's worth going all the way just for the heck of it.


 
  
  
 [size=small]As far as I can tell internally the V281 is not fully balanced. So even if you use balanced inputs the signal gets converted to single ended, and only after the volume control it is split again for the power stage. Connecting DAC using XLR input may give you the benefit of noise cancellation, but if you have a noise free RCA connection it would make no difference.[/size]


----------



## CasperBxl

pleasantsounds said:


> [size=small]As far as I can tell internally the V281 is not fully balanced. So even if you use balanced inputs the signal gets converted to single ended, and only after the volume control it is split again for the power stage. Connecting DAC using XLR input may give you the benefit of noise cancellation, but if you have a noise free RCA connection it would make no difference.[/size]


 
  
  
 Why would it not be fully balanced?
  
 Specs:
*HPA V281 Features:*
 -  Balanced inputs with gold-plated Neutrik XLR connectors
 -  Balanced line outputs with gold plated XLR connectors
 ....
 -  Independent channel design
 ...
 -  *Discrete-design power amp* *with 8 transistors per channel
-  4 amplifiers for true balanced headphone output*
 ...
 -  1 gold plated Neutrik 4-pin XLR output
 ...
 -  2 x Large toroidal transformer (15 + 25 W)
  
 http://www.lake-people.de/produktdetails/product/hpa-v281.html


----------



## PleasantSounds

casperbxl said:


> Why would it not be fully balanced?
> 
> Specs:
> *HPA V281 Features:*
> ...


 
  
 Check the volume pot: it only has two sections. One for left and one for right channel.
 If it was balanced all the way through, you would have 4 sections, i.e. 2 for each channel.
  
 Also if you can read the schematic diagram it shows this rather clearly.


----------



## saxelrod92

It is technically a balanced amp though. Because one amp is an in-phase signal, and the other amp is an out of phase signal, and when combined you get a balanced signal. I'm sorry thats a very simplified explanation, my dad who has an engineering background explained this to me much better, but the gist of it is having that in-phase, and out of phase signal combined is essentially the definition of balanced. I guess technically this isnt like a mjolnir where the signal is kept balanced all the way through. but it its by definition a balanced output signal, and uses two amp sections, just like any balanced amp. I'm not sure how this ties in with the single ended volume pot, but it is definitely a balanced output signal.


----------



## mulder01

Wow that's interesting, I was wondering what I was missing out on by not using the balanced inputs.
  
 Looks like I'm not missing out on anything...


----------



## CasperBxl

pleasantsounds said:


> Check the volume pot: it only has two sections. One for left and one for right channel.
> If it was balanced all the way through, you would have 4 sections, i.e. 2 for each channel.
> 
> Also if you can read the schematic diagram it shows this rather clearly.


 
  
 I can agree with that ...
  
 The input->Volume Control is not balanced, AMP sections + output are balanced.
 Is not fully internally balanced!
  
 But VERY few; professional systems even; are fully internally balanced.
 Can you name some consumer fully (internally) balanced headphone amps, I'm curious to see what those will cost, maybe get one.
 (with a schema so we all can check? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
 The Bryston BHA-1 is not, I checked, based on this post, the V281 is not,
 No drawings for Sennheiser HDVD 800, Schiit, Oppo ....   
  
  
  

 Source: User Manual (http://www.lake-people.de/violectric-manuals.html?file=tl_files/Standard_Theme/downloads/Manuals/V281-E%20Manual%202014.pdf)
  
  
 (ps: pity not more makers provide a diagram, I wonder how many are 'fully' balanced ... like the Oppo HA-1...?)
  
  
 For most intends and purposes, it is balanced I would say.
 Balanced AMP Sections + output.


----------



## Xenophon

I'm not sure if *any* consumer grade amps are fully balanced all the way.  Many brands play with words and 'balanced' sells.  Then again, if the basic design is good and you're not in an environment with lots of RF noise and/or running a lot of cable I wonder if there are really audible (as opposed to theoretical) benefits to using a balanced approach.  It makes sense in recording or mastering studios but for home use...I dunno.


----------



## saxelrod92

Isn't the schiit mjolnir supposed to be fully balanced? I always thought that was the selling point for it, that it actually was a legit fully balanced in/out amp. and that it was under a grand. Also I think in regards to sound quality, what the V281 has for balanced is whats needed to achieve the balanced sound. But I dont think balanced is really all that super important. It's just more of a technicality, and in some cases minor improvements or moreso changes in the sound. I think its more like if you're already spending this much on an amp, then might as well get output like the way it is in the recording studio, It's a why not situation.


----------



## xaval

mulder01 said:


> Wow that's interesting, I was wondering what I was missing out on by not using the balanced inputs.
> 
> Looks like I'm not missing out on anything...


 
 Looking at your post and then at your avatar... wow... I serioulsy grinned! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
  
  
 The main selling point of an amp like the V281 is the balanced headphone output, or else, I wouldn't be the only one here with a V220. So I'm sure balanced is a selling point. Let's not also forget the comparison spec table and dismiss how powerful the V281 is on paper in relation to almost anything else in production - it's a monster! And this also sells. In the end, we're talking about a top class amp that seems to be able to control any headphone very well to amazing, except for 'stats.


----------



## xaval

saxelrod92 said:


> Isn't the schiit mjolnir supposed to be fully balanced? I always thought that was the selling point for it, that it actually was a legit fully balanced in/out amp. and that it was under a grand. Also I think in regards to sound quality, what the V281 has for balanced is whats needed to achieve the balanced sound. But I dont think balanced is really all that super important. It's just more of a technicality, and in some cases minor improvements or moreso changes in the sound. I think its more like if you're already spending this much on an amp, then might as well get output like the way it is in the recording studio, It's a why not situation.


 
 Yes. Although I've seen no diagram (which probably I would interpret incorrectly, anyway) it is a fully balanced amp at a great price point also. Don't want to sound like Schiit but the Mjolnir is so balanced that if you try to use XLR to SE plugs for your unbalanced phones you'll burn something. I think QES Labs also builds fully balanced amps.


----------



## saxelrod92

xaval said:


> Yes. Although I've seen no diagram (which probably I would interpret incorrectly, anyway) it is a fully balanced amp at a great price point also. Don't want to sound like Schiit but the Mjolnir is so balanced that if you try to use XLR to SE plugs for your unbalanced phones you'll burn something. I think QES Labs also builds fully balanced amps.


 

 yea, I remember reading in the schiit thread that Jason made it only balanced to keep the price low, because adding in all the circuitry for single ended operation along side balanced would make it twice the price. Which funny enough the ragnarok basically is that, and a little more lol. I think the design of the V281 is actually pretty genius when you look at it's internals. You just take two separate amps, hook them up to their own output single ended jack, so you get single ended operation easily. and then you just invert the phase on one of the amps, combine the signal from both amps, and hook that up to a balanced output jack for your balanced operation (obviously a super simplified, and dumbed down description). but thats pretty simple and straightforward compared to like the ragnarok or anything from audio-gd or bryston or Auralic. Those guys all have great designs, but they're all so complex or technical or intricate. and then the V281 is just like, heres an amp, heres another amp, stick them on top of each other, balanced lol.


----------



## plakat

To me the only important point in a balanced amp (besides my knack for delicious circuit designs) is power: the V281 will be able to drive any headphone relevant to me (think Abyss). Soundwise I'm happy using it single ended with the K812.
  
 Balanced is not win-win after all, output impedance is higher (though still not relevant) and noise level is also higher (still not relevant, too).
  
 The Schiit amp Jason mentioned uses a topology that is balanced by design and one thing I definitely like about Schiit: straying from the beaten paths. What I like about Lake People / Violectric is that they do a clean design and execute it in an excellent fashion. The V281 is more versatile to me and easier to get this side of the ocean


----------



## project86

pleasantsounds said:


> [size=small]As far as I can tell internally the V281 is not fully balanced. So even if you use balanced inputs the signal gets converted to single ended, and only after the volume control it is split again for the power stage. Connecting DAC using XLR input may give you the benefit of noise cancellation, but if you have a noise free RCA connection it would make no difference.[/size]


 
  
 True. I was referring to the balanced output on the DAC side. The Anedio is not all that different between SE and balanced out but some DACs sound quite a bit better from their XLR outputs compared to their SE.
  
 For the balanced amp discussion - it's important to realize that there's different schools of thought about what constitutes a "balanced amp".
  
 *As has already been somewhat discussed, the Bryston BHA-1 has "true" balanced input and outputs (including a 4-gang volume pot) but still converts the signal to single-ended along the way (for reasons which elude me).
  
 *The Violectric V281 and the Auralic Taurus both use a vaguely similar setup in that they have a 2-channel volume pot in the chain. So for the V281 and Taurus it's more about using the pair of (internal) amps to drive your headphones which increased voltage swing and current delivery. This method is good for maximum input/output flexibility - any input can play through any output regardless of type.
  
 *The Woo WA22 is marketed as a "true" balanced amp but internally we see only 3 wires going to the headphone jacks - thus it is not really balanced, and the XLR is just for convenience only. Same deal with XLR on the Yulong A18 (they don't advertise it as being fully balanced).
  
 *There ARE some amps we might call "true" balanced. They don't even have to be all that expensive. The Schiit Mjolnir, the Yulong A28, and the Firestone Bobby all have separate signal paths for the left and right channels, including the 4-gang volume pot. They convert SE inputs to balanced (using a phase splitter). The Schiit is limited to balanced outputs only, while the Yulong and Firestone both provide 1/4" jacks - but using those is essentially like using only half of the amp.
  
 *Then there's the rather new concept of a "balanced" setup using dual headphone amps - such as the Questyle CMA800R or the Nuforce HA200. The concept is essentially the same but instead of having two internal amps with a balanced signal path, they take things even farther by splitting the entire thing into a separate chassis. So the 4-gang volume pot then becomes a pair of stereo pots, and each channel even gets its own dedicated power supply. 
  
 As you can see, there are different ideas floating around regarding what exactly makes a "balanced headphone amp". Most of these designs have at least some merit, and really the only thing I object to is when Woo calls their model a "true" balanced amp when it really isn't. In my mind that's different from Violectric saying "4 (internal) amplifiers for true balanced output". It may be a technicality, but one of those statements is true while the other isn't.


----------



## icemanh

I discussed with Fried about the 2 gang volume pot issue in Oct after I opened my V281 case.  He shared his view point as below.
  
 "We share the opinion that balanced signals INSIDE an item are good for nothing but only generate costs.
The reason for balanced signals is the noise immunity, to ensure this the so called CMRR (common-mode rejection ratio) shall be at least 40 dB (factor 100), otherwise balanced signals make no sense. 
For a minimum of 40 dB CMRR at least 1 % tolerance components are necessary.
This can be achieved with ease for resistors,
with big effort for only few capacitors,
never (!!) for turn-style potentiometers.

So, having balanced signals inside a unit with an attenuator makes no sense, is a waste resources and only a marketing gag."
  
 I was disappointed in the beginning because I was told V281 is a "true balance" amp.  Later on, I am happy with the amp even it is not a "true" one, it works great with my HD800.  "True balanced" or not is no longer my concern now.


----------



## project86

Yeah it's an interesting discussion but really not anything to worry too much about, as was done in the old days around HeadFi where balanced was often discussed as the pinnacle of system configurations. 
  
 For example, Yulong has their A28 amp (fully balanced) positioned lower in the lineup than their A18 which is not balanced. And rightfully so based on my time with each unit.


----------



## plakat

icemanh said:


> Later on, I am happy with the amp even it is not a "true" one, it works great with my HD800.  "True balanced" or not is no longer my concern now.


 
  
 I think Fried has enough experience to avoid just ticking boxes, keeping the overall design reasonable (if 40V max output can be called reasonable 
  
 Point is, the V281 is an excellent amp. Fully balanced or not does not matter in the end, it does what its intended to do: produce very good output with a really wide range of headphones.


----------



## alvinmate

Hi Guys,
  
 I didn't get any response from the other thread so posting over here as I think will get better response. Currently I have changed my mind going down the streamer route so thinking of getting a better dedicated DAC for now.
  
*Current Setup*
 V281
 HD800
 Rega Apollo R
 MacBook with HRT streamer ii
  
  
*DAC options under consideration*
 Rega DAC
 Yulong D18
 Schiit Bifrost Uber
  
  
 I need something that will have an excellent synergy between the gear I possess and any other suggestions that may work best with this setup.
  
  
 Thanks


----------



## Viper2005

alvinmate said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I didn't get any response from the other thread so posting over here as I think will get better response. Currently I have changed my mind going down the streamer route so thinking of getting a better dedicated DAC for now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would avoid the D18 as it is already a very warm amp and lacks that detail up top.   I have the DA8 which is more neutral (but slightly warm still) and pairs nicely with the V281 for the HD800.


----------



## shultzee

alvinmate said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I didn't get any response from the other thread so posting over here as I think will get better response. Currently I have changed my mind going down the streamer route so thinking of getting a better dedicated DAC for now.
> 
> ...


 

 I would add the x-sabre to under consideration.   Outstanding dac but I have no experience with HD800.


----------



## alvinmate

X Sabre looks very tempting....
  
 Anyone have experience with Eastern Electric minimax dac Junior.


----------



## davidespinosa

project86 said:


> ...there's different schools of thought about what constitutes a "balanced amp".


 
  
 Good point !  Also, a true balanced attenuator isn't just two unbalanced attenuators.  The + and - signals are referenced to each other, not to a separate ground.  You can search for "balanced attenuator" and see various designs.


----------



## diamondears

alvinmate said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I didn't get any response from the other thread so posting over here as I think will get better response. Currently I have changed my mind going down the streamer route so thinking of getting a better dedicated DAC for now.
> 
> ...


 

Audiolab 8200CD or M-DAC is my recommendation. Has 7 interchangeable filters, including Minimum Phase filter. Way better than the Rega DAC IMHO.


----------



## navigavi

alvinmate said:


> *DAC options under consideration*
> Rega DAC
> Yulong D18
> Schiit Bifrost Uber


 
  
 Why wouldn't you consider the v800 from Violectric while you own the v281 yourself? I have the combo and it's really good.


----------



## alvinmate

navigavi said:


> Why wouldn't you consider the v800 from Violectric while you own the v281 yourself? I have the combo and it's really good.


 
  
 Thanks for everyone's input.
  
 Good question navi. Well can you please comment on whether you are using HD800 with your V800 setup and hows the synergy with everything in action.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Tony1110

navigavi said:


> Why wouldn't you consider the v800 from Violectric while you own the v281 yourself? I have the combo and it's really good.




A lot of people are saying that it's somewhat dated. Wouldn't put me off though. As long as it's capable of 24/192 over USB - which it is since they updated it - and sounds great, then it's a good DAC. People make too much of all the novelty features that come with today's DACs.


----------



## plakat

alvinmate said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I didn't get any response from the other thread so posting over here as I think will get better response. Currently I have changed my mind going down the streamer route so thinking of getting a better dedicated DAC for now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't consider the V281 overly warm and definitely not missing treble details (as @Viper2005 mentioned), but it pairs really well with my Sabre-based Benchmark DAC2. Other Sabre-based designs might qualify as well.
  


tony1110 said:


> A lot of people are saying that it's somewhat dated. Wouldn't put me off though. As long as it's capable of 24/192 over USB - which it is since they updated it - and sounds great, then it's a good DAC. People make too much of all the novelty features that come with today's DACs.


 
  
 Thats right, the V800 is not outdated just because Violectric will at some time create a new DAC...


----------



## sugarshark

Finally got down off the fence and bought a V281 today. Just enjoying a few tracks at the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 quick question - it's not possible to get less than -12db via the pre-gain switches right? The balanced outputs on the nad m51 dac are really high..


----------



## saxelrod92

sugarshark said:


> Finally got down off the fence and bought a V281 today. Just enjoying a few tracks at the moment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Right -12 is as low as you go. But even with higher voltage from your dac, you really shouldn't need to go to -12db, or lower. The two extremes of the pre-gain are for some really rare and specific situations, because it's usually too much or too little for most situations. Also I guess the only real solution in your case is use a dac with lower output voltage or use a headphone with higher resistance.


----------



## project86

davidespinosa said:


> Good point !  Also, a true balanced attenuator isn't just two unbalanced attenuators.  The + and - signals are referenced to each other, not to a separate ground.  You can search for "balanced attenuator" and see various designs.


 
  
 True - I'm just simplifying my explanation in an already lengthy post. 
  
  


sugarshark said:


> Finally got down off the fence and bought a V281 today. Just enjoying a few tracks at the moment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 NAD M51 has a 4.8V output via XLR, which is only .8V higher than "standard". I can't see why you'd need to go so low on the pre-gain.


----------



## Viper2005

viper2005 said:


> I would avoid the D18 as it is already a very warm dac and lacks that detail up top.   I have the DA8 which is more neutral (but slightly warm still) and pairs nicely with the V281 for the HD800.







plakat said:


> I don't consider the V281 overly warm and definitely not missing treble details (as @Viper2005
> mentioned), but it pairs really well with my Sabre-based Benchmark DAC2. Other Sabre-based designs might qualify as well.




I never meant the V281 was missing detail, rather that the Yulong D18 is lacking upper detail. (I miswrote amp instead of dac). The 281 is not overly warm, and is more neutral than the V200. You are right, though, that most Sabre DACs pair well with the 281. The Yulong DA8 is one such DAC.


----------



## JeffMann

alvinmate said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I didn't get any response from the other thread so posting over here as I think will get better response. Currently I have changed my mind going down the streamer route so thinking of getting a better dedicated DAC for now.
> 
> ...




If you live in the USA, the Anedio D2 DAC at $890 is a great DAC choice. It is very analytical, but it is still neutral when combined with a V281. It also has an advantage over a V800 from two perspectives. i) It is much cheaper and it also includes a headphone amp. 2) It is a 32 bit design (rather than V800's 24 bit design) so its digital volume control doesn't degrade the sound.

Jeff.


----------



## Xenophon

jeffmann said:


> If you live in the USA, the Anedio D2 DAC at $890 is a great DAC choice. It is very analytical, but it is still neutral when combined with a V281. It also has an advantage over a V800 from two perspectives. i) It is much cheaper and it also includes a headphone amp. 2) It is a 32 bit design (rather than V800's 24 bit design) so its digital volume control doesn't degrade the sound.
> 
> Jeff.


 

 +1, to my big regret, they don't ship to Europe with this deal.  I don't think the V800 volume control noticeably degrades the sound quality of good source material though.  Don't know how much the V800 is in the US, and for sure it's a good DAC but given its age and the del on the D2, I'd think very hard.


----------



## plakat

sugarshark said:


> Finally got down off the fence and bought a V281 today. Just enjoying a few tracks at the moment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you need to get lower you could try something like these damping adapters:
 http://www.thomann.de/gb/cordial_cdg_20200.htm
  


viper2005 said:


> I never meant the V281 was missing detail, rather that the Yulong D18 is lacking upper detail. (I miswrote amp instead of dac). The 281 is not overly warm, and is more neutral than the V200. You are right, though, that most Sabre DACs pair well with the 281. The Yulong DA8 is one such DAC.


 
 Sorry, I might have misread/-interpreted your post, I understood you were talking about the V281 (amp vs DAC might have confused me). Yes, I hear the V281 as less warm than the V200 too.


----------



## plakat

jeffmann said:


> It is a 32 bit design (rather than V800's 24 bit design) so its digital volume control doesn't degrade the sound.


 
  
 With the V800 I'd just keep the volume control at max to avoid degrading the digital signal. Otherwise the signal might indeed loose some bits.


----------



## sugarshark

project86 said:


> True - I'm just simplifying my explanation in an already lengthy post.
> 
> 
> 
> NAD M51 has a 4.8V output via XLR, which is only .8V higher than "standard". I can't see why you'd need to go so low on the pre-gain.


 
  
 Hmm so i'm assuming 4.8v is when the dac is set to 0db on the volume control? when the dac is set to fixed volume mode it sets it to -20db
  
 when using 0db output, a comfortable listening level is about 10 o'clock position. It's usable but i'd prefer a bit more range to play with. i could turn it down on the dac i guess, i just worry if it will affect the sound quality at all


----------



## alvinmate

I live in Australia so unfortunately the D2 is out of the equation... So I have narrowed down to V800 and Matrix X Sabre....From a aesthetic point of view and owning V281 my mind says V800 but my heart tells me X Sabre... so yes I'm confused and still thinking


----------



## ellevoid

I use NAD M51 and set pre-gain in V281 to +12 db for HE6 
  
 Btw Is there any electrical theory on way of setting/matching between DAC, Preamp, Amp volume or gain?


----------



## alvinmate

Hey everyone quick update. I just placed the order for the V800 Dac. I thought it made more sense with my current gear and reading from all the feedback that V800 dac is very neutral and some have pulled this combo quite well with HD800. I have read 86's review on Sabre X and in comparison to V800 dac its pretty close possibly little different in character so wouldn't miss out much either way.
  
 I hope this was the right decision however will find out soon
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Thanks


----------



## navigavi

alvinmate said:


> Hey everyone quick update. I just placed the order for the V800 Dac. I thought it made more sense with my current gear and reading from all the feedback that V800 dac is very neutral and some have pulled this combo quite well with HD800. I have read 86's review on Sabre X and in comparison to V800 dac its pretty close possibly little different in character so wouldn't miss out much either way.
> 
> I hope this was the right decision however will find out soon
> 
> ...


 
  
 You won't regret it. I'm using the v281 + v800 + hd800 as well, with desktop setup playing from foobar/asio. Enjoy your setup!


----------



## Greggo

Jumping in with a question as I am too lazy to read through the entire thread at this point...  I take it most of you who have heard the new amp feel that it is less warm sounding than the V200, but is this also true of the V220?  Is anyone posting about V220 impressions?  I was thinking about the Lake People G109S because I am not concerned about balanced connections or balanced headphones and the Lake People products are more in my budget range, but they don't have variable line out so I can use it to drive desktop monitors.  There was mention of new Lake People DACs so I wonder if they might update the amp line as well???
  
 Anyways, I like a warm and punchy bass and some warmth through the mids and highs as well, so everything I have read about the V200 in the past is very appealing.  If I plan on sticking with HD700 and then maybe HE-560 and Grado PS500e as my upper end headphones, but still have a variety of others that I enjoy, is the V200 still the most versatile with different headphones while still maintaining a nice warm signature?  I am still in the "saving up" mode, but wondering if I should wait for a potential Lake People amp with variable output, go with a V200 and maybe a used one from folks upgrading, or save more myself and go for the V220?  And for a DAC I am watching for feedback on the new MiniMax DAC Junior, but open to a built in solution with V220 if the performance is there.
  
 Sorry to ramble, just trying to get a handle on sound signature and performance of the new products and what direction might make the most sense for me.


----------



## Xenophon

Warning:  I own a V200 but have not yet heard the V220/V281.  From what you describe as the kind of sound you like and taking a look at the headphones you wish to use, the V200 looks like  a good match.  I don't see the point of the extra power in its successors unless you intend to use it with inefficient planars.  You can grab a used V200 at a serious discount, several are on sale in the forums right now.
  
 One thing:  some people describe the V220/V281 sound as being more detailed as what the V200 offers.  And that's indeed my personal 'problem' with the V200; to my tastes it lacks detail and resolution, especially in the treble.  Pretty sure the headphones aren't the issue as it also plays with my HD-800.  Not everybody agrees with my impressions though so take this for what it's worth.


----------



## Greggo

Thanks for the reply!  Yes, that is the dilemma for me... I probably want the extra detail if it is there wit the V220, but not if the nice warm punch of the V200 has fallen out of the picture.  I really need to find a way to hear these products for myself I guess.  I was pretty set on the G109 but the more I think about my desktop situation in the future, the more I want to be able to run headphones and powered studio monitors.  I have always assumed that the V200 was a nice step up from the G109, and now curious if the V220 takes it much further again.
  
 The other consideration for me is the internal DAC options... and it looks like the internal DAC for the 200 and 220 are the exact same, and I am interested in hearing from more folks about how those options perform against stand alone DACs in the $500-$1000 US range as that is where I am shopping.


----------



## Xenophon

For the internal DACs (24 bit version) there appears to be a consensus that they're not too great.  My V200 is equipped with one as I got it before purchasing the V800 and it's certainly not as good as that last one.  Frankly, it's good as a stopgap thing but...if I compare it with an ODAC that has RCA outs, I'd be inclined to go with that, especially because it's more versatile in the event (very likely) that you'd purchase a discrete DAC later.  
  
 Or, what I'd do in a heartbeat if only I was in the US:  Get the Anedio D2, it's very good and they have it on sale at 890 USD.


----------



## project86

I actually quite like the USB DAC add on. For the price, it sounds great to me. Is it on the same level as the amp portion? Of course not. But it's very solid IMHO.


----------



## Tony1110

project86 said:


> I actually quite like the USB DAC add on. For the price, it sounds great to me. Is it on the same level as the amp portion? Of course not. But it's very solid IMHO.




I think "solid" is a good word to describe it. I thought it was pretty impressive until I hooked the V281 up to my old Denon CD player and found that the CD player actually sounded a little better - clearer. I'm expecting the D2 to be a significant step up.

Have you tried the Alpha Primes yet?


----------



## Greggo

A different way to phrase my question here and then I will shut up and stop cluttering up this thread...
  
 For anyone that has experience moving from something less capable up to the V200 or V220, here is what I am trying to decide, which of these two options would you expect to be the better performance option with someone who eventually splits there time between HD700, HE-560, and PS500e...
  
 1) V220 with internal DAC
  
 or 
  
 2) G109S with ConceroHD or similar class DAC
  
 I am wondering if it is essentially a toss up, a slightly better amp with a slightly less better DAC would end up performing at about the same level as a slightly better DAC with a slightly less better amp???  It seems like the DAC world is constantly changing, but I am not sure the differences going forward, or even the ones as of late, are really translating into better sound.   Do you still start at the source with your investment priorities or is there some magic happening at the V200 level and up that makes it more important to your end game headphone experience than any subtle details attributed to DACs?  Interested in heading some opinions on this and again, I will stay out of this thread with all my personal questions here for a good while so as not to derail things.


----------



## Xenophon

Source quality is everything.  No amount of gear or money can fix a bad quality recording or bad mastering and imo that's where your priorities should lie.  But don't go over the top, standard redbook CD quality is all one needs.  Then i'd invest most in an amp, if only because basically, amplifier technology is stable and hence depreciation typically lower. Headphones are an important but very personal choice and will to some extent determine which amp you should get.  If you're hell bent on a HE-6 I'd say get a V220/V281 or (better yet) a speaker amp. If all you ever want to drive is a HD-800 or a set of Grados then you don't need all that power and maybe the G109S is all you require.  Nobody can choose for you.


----------



## Megalomaniak

greggo said:


> Jumping in with a question as I am too lazy to read through the entire thread at this point...  I take it most of you who have heard the new amp feel that it is less warm sounding than the V200, but is this also true of the V220?  Is anyone posting about V220 impressions?  I was thinking about the Lake People G109S because I am not concerned about balanced connections or balanced headphones and the Lake People products are more in my budget range, but they don't have variable line out so I can use it to drive desktop monitors.  There was mention of new Lake People DACs so I wonder if they might update the amp line as well???
> 
> Anyways, I like a warm and punchy bass and some warmth through the mids and highs as well, so everything I have read about the V200 in the past is very appealing.  If I plan on sticking with HD700 and then maybe HE-560 and Grado PS500e as my upper end headphones, but still have a variety of others that I enjoy, is the V200 still the most versatile with different headphones while still maintaining a nice warm signature?  I am still in the "saving up" mode, but wondering if I should wait for a potential Lake People amp with variable output, go with a V200 and maybe a used one from folks upgrading, or save more myself and go for the V220?  And for a DAC I am watching for feedback on the new MiniMax DAC Junior, but open to a built in solution with V220 if the performance is there.
> 
> Sorry to ramble, just trying to get a handle on sound signature and performance of the new products and what direction might make the most sense for me.


 
  
 V220/V281 SE is as warm as V200 uses to be, but balanced V281's output is more neutral, which I like very much for my LCD-2s. But that warmth doesnt "damage" the trebble, its there with all the resolution and extension.


----------



## alvinmate

navigavi said:


> You won't regret it. I'm using the v281 + v800 + hd800 as well, with desktop setup playing from foobar/asio. Enjoy your setup!


 
  
 Thanks navi,
  
 I think so too... it will be a great and very enjoyable setup.


----------



## xaval

greggo said:


> A different way to phrase my question here and then I will shut up and stop cluttering up this thread...
> 
> For anyone that has experience moving from something less capable up to the V200 or V220, here is what I am trying to decide, which of these two options would you expect to be the better performance option with someone who eventually splits there time between HD700, HE-560, and PS500e...
> 
> ...


 
 I have never heard the V200 and went straight to V220.
  
 What source are you currently using?
  
 Internal DAC (I have optical) after some burn in is competent and inline about with the price of the board (remember, other more expensive DACs need to factor in on the price the aditional case and power supply) and a bit upwards maybe. Not a great combo if you're used to something really better.
  
 The amp section is world class so, unless you're looking at balanced headphones, I think it's all the amp you'll ever need until something "magical" happens in the way head amps are built sometime in the future. In the end you'll get an unbalanced box: excellent amp with a "nice" DAC inside.
  
 If I could go back in time I wouldn't have bought the DAC board. I needed a one box solution and figured this would be it. It's an unbalanced solution. YMMV, etc.
 I'm now using other DACs with the V220 and looking to buy a new one... 2 box solution 
  
 As for the DAC world's constant changes. It's an illusion. There hasn't happened many revolutions on how DACs sound. In fact, many are rediscovering how great vintage NOS stuff sounds. Don't fall for marketing gimmicks.


----------



## Greggo

xaval said:


> I have never heard the V200 and went straight to V220.
> 
> What source are you currently using?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a NAD D1050 and I am very pleased with it.  I do get the feeling that there is more resolution to be had, but its general signature and balance is nicely done IMHO.  The amp section of the NAD is a nice step up from the Dragonfly and Explorer USB portables I have been using in the past, and there I feel like there is still much to be gained from a dedicated amp that would have more grip and power.
  
 The problem I have is that the G109 seems so wonderfully competent and reasonably priced, but I am thinking that if I spring for a dedicated headphone amp it really should do two things for me: 1) never leave me wanting for yet another step up....and 2) function as a preamp to my powered monitors.  So those two nagging points have me thinking about doubling down on my investment and going with the V220 base model and then using my NAD D1050 as a DAC only until I can upgrade that another 6-12 months later down the road.  I get the feeling that the new MiniMax DAC Junior may be the new killer at the under 1k US dollar price point, but who knows, maybe if I go the V220 route by the time I am ready for a DAC there is a new V800 that is worth the investment and looks nice sitting beside a V220.  I am not above a little vanity in this process as well.
  
 I emailed Arthur at ViolectricUSA and he confirmed that there are no current plans for LakePeople amp upgrades and that he felt a separate DAC around the 1k price point or above is needed to truly leverage the full potential of the V220, and though above my preferred budget, he also felt the V220 was the model that would offer the best preamp performance as well.  I know that is very subjective stuff, but it does seem like a reasonable position to me.


----------



## saxelrod92

greggo said:


> I have a NAD D1050 and I am very pleased with it.  I do get the feeling that there is more resolution to be had, but its general signature and balance is nicely done IMHO.  The amp section of the NAD is a nice step up from the Dragonfly and Explorer USB portables I have been using in the past, and there I feel like there is still much to be gained from a dedicated amp that would have more grip and power.
> 
> The problem I have is that the G109 seems so wonderfully competent and reasonably priced, but I am thinking that if I spring for a dedicated headphone amp it really should do two things for me: 1) never leave me wanting for yet another step up....and 2) function as a preamp to my powered monitors.  So those two nagging points have me thinking about doubling down on my investment and going with the V220 base model and then using my NAD D1050 as a DAC only until I can upgrade that another 6-12 months later down the road.  I get the feeling that the new MiniMax DAC Junior may be the new killer at the under 1k US dollar price point, but who knows, maybe if I go the V220 route by the time I am ready for a DAC there is a new V800 that is worth the investment and looks nice sitting beside a V220.  I am not above a little vanity in this process as well.
> 
> I emailed Arthur at ViolectricUSA and he confirmed that there are no current plans for LakePeople amp upgrades and that he felt a separate DAC around the 1k price point or above is needed to truly leverage the full potential of the V220, and though above my preferred budget, he also felt the V220 was the model that would offer the best preamp performance as well.  I know that is very subjective stuff, but it does seem like a reasonable position to me.


 

 Also about DACs, earlier in the thread it was mentioned that there will be some new Lake People DACs coming out pretty soon, that have good performance, with that lower price point.


----------



## Greggo

Yeah, I would definitely keep an eye on the Lake People DACs for my situation... I will be open to anything in the $800-$1600 range I suppose so long as the form factor is desktop friendly (on a big desk at least) or at least the same as or less of a foot print than the V220.  I am just about 100% decided that I am going to save up another few months and go for the V220.


----------



## plakat

I think the V220 is a very nice option. Regarding the DAC the word seems to be that there will be two models... I guess one below and one above the current V800. So one of them might fit your bill...


----------



## Misterer

Could someone compare V281 with Master 9? Which one do you think would be a better match for LCD-XC? Is Master 9 more neutral?


----------



## lunz

project86 said:


> I'm shooting for the end of the year, maybe a bit sooner if I can find more writing time. I'm way backed up though. That's why I come here frequently to post more impressions as I have new things to say - the wait for the final review could be a while. But feel free to ask me anything that comes up.


 
  
 The end of the year is near  Apart from Head-fi this little v281 is seriously lacking reviews


----------



## Jodet

lunz said:


> The end of the year is near  Apart from Head-fi this little v281 is seriously lacking reviews


 
  
 Once January 1 and the big price jump hits reviews will be kind of moot.


----------



## Xenophon

jodet said:


> Once January 1 and the big price jump hits reviews will be kind of moot.


 

 I don't know if they will be moot but for sure is that at those prices for the base level, I'd pass.  About the only scenario where it still makes sense to get a 281/220 at that price is if you absolutely need a one box solution that plays with all headgear, from iem's to demanding planars.  You could easily get/build a top flight low power/quiet speaker amp to drive planars or cans like the HD-800 with at about half the price, and that's without adding stuff  (which I personally don't require)to the Vio like remote controls etc.  
  
 All of the preceding to be read with 'IMO' in front of each sentence, obviously.


----------



## FredrikT92

Why is the V281 not in the SummitFi section?

 I think it would get more talk if it was there...


----------



## roskodan

because it doesn't have a fancy name and description! (and has cheap feet LOL)
  
 also, why is the thread title in german? doesn't make any sense since 99.99% of us here can't read that !?! not that i really care about it or anything, just wondering


----------



## Xenophon

roskodan said:


> because it doesn't have a fancy name and description! (and has cheap feet LOL)
> 
> also, why is the thread title in german? doesn't make any sense since 99.99% of us here can't read that !?! not that i really care about it or anything, just wondering


 

 My guess is that the thread title is a ripoff of the Audi car slogan 'Vorsprung durch Technik' (Advancement via technology, loosely translated).  The title is not a grammatically 100% correct full sentence in German but never mind that.  As to why it's not in summit-fi, I suppose that's because no one posted a thread about it there


----------



## roskodan

xenophon said:


> roskodan said:
> 
> 
> > because it doesn't have a fancy name and description! (and has cheap feet LOL)
> ...


 
  
 you see, it *was* in summit-fi, then it got 'demoted' (the thread was moved here from summit-fi)
  
 i don't know cos specs wise it should definitely be in summit-fi, yet it isn't anything exotic or really fancy, so you know how it goes...  who cares anyway


----------



## Xenophon

roskodan said:


> you see, it *was* in summit-fi, then it got 'demoted' (the thread was moved here from summit-fi)
> 
> i don't know cos specs wise it should definitely be in summit-fi, yet it isn't anything exotic or really fancy, so you know how it goes...  who cares anyway


 

 Really!?  Didn't know that the 'powers that be' over here engaged in that type of shenanigan.  There goes another illusion.    But I agree that specs wise it should be over there, perhaps the objective admission criterion is the sponsoring budget spent.


----------



## roskodan

well sponsoring could do it, but to tell the truth it's still not an exotic device, in audiophile terms, it's not pure class A, no fancy opamps or discrete opamps, no oversized psu, no fancy design/enclosure, name or description of the architecture, i read it is based (v200) on the nakamichi 420/620 b class power amps
  
 if they made it look like a gsx, big case with separate psu, class a etc., then i'm sure it would be there, but what's the point? i don't really want that XD
  
 btw who knows, maybe when reviews start sprouting and if it ranks high maybe it will be put back


----------



## xaval

Summit Fi subforum is ruled by this sentence:
_*This forum is for discussion of top-of-the-line (TOTL), exclusive headphones (eg: electrostats) and high-end audio and headphone rigs.*​_  
_Maybe V281 is not totl or high-end audio ​_




  
 If I remember correctly, similar discussion ocurred with the T1 also. In the end, the powers that be around here decide where certain products belong.


----------



## PleasantSounds

xaval said:


> Summit Fi subforum is ruled by this sentence:
> _*This forum is for discussion of top-of-the-line (TOTL), exclusive headphones (eg: electrostats) and high-end audio and headphone rigs.*​_
> _Maybe V281 is not totl or high-end audio ​_
> 
> ...


 
  
 This gets me puzzled too.
 As far as I know V281 is top of the line Volievtric product.
 And if a balanced amp with a relay based volume attenuator is not high end gear, then I don't know what is.
  
 Oh wait - I know: it doesn't have any tubes


----------



## LFC_SL

In all these years can count with one-hand the threads with such consistent positive feedback throughout

Where can one demo this in the UK (please do not say can buy and return under the distance selling regs, not quite the same thing)


----------



## Tony1110

lfc_sl said:


> In all these years can count with one-hand the threads with such consistent positive feedback throughout
> 
> Where can one demo this in the UK (please do not say can buy and return under the distance selling regs, not quite the same thing)




I don't think there are any UK stockists. I certainly couldn't find any when I was shopping for the V281. Item Audio used to sell Violectric gear but they don't appear to now.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

Well I decided to take the plunge. I was hoping to wait until later in 2015 but with the pending $400 USD price increase I decided to jump on it now. I ordered the black faceplate with black feet and the remote option. It should be here next week. I'm not sure if I should blame or thank Project86 for this purchase.  

I purchased his V200 to get a feel for the Violetric sound and to see how I would like it. Obviously I like it so much I'm getting the 281. I hope it's worth its weight in gold. I plan on keeping the V200 for use at the office.

I've never heard a balanced set up and ordered a balanced cable from Oppo for my PM-2s. I'll plan on getting a balance cable for my HD800's as well down the road. Interestingly enough, I purchased the V200 primarily for the HD800's, but when I plugged in the PM-2's and heard the difference over my other amps my jaw really dropped. I'm not sure why some people don't think these headphones scale very much. I know they are easy to drive but with each step up on my amps they improve very noticeably. I'll look forward to hearing the impact with both these headphones coupled with the 281, especially using a balanced cable. I have some others including HE-500s but none get as much head time as my two primary pair. I will eventually try out Audeze one day, but I am likely waiting to see what they come up with next. Thanks to everyone who has provided their feedback on this amp. I am expecting it to be my endgame amp for at least the next several years if not longer.


----------



## project86

scottcocoabeach said:


> Well I decided to take the plunge. I was hoping to wait until later in 2015 but with the pending $400 USD price increase I decided to jump on it now. I ordered the black faceplate with black feet and the remote option. It should be here next week. I'm not sure if I should blame or thank Project86 for this purchase.


 
  
  
 You're welcome in advance. Trust me


----------



## scottcocoabeach

project86 said:


> You're welcome in advance. Trust me :wink_face:




Thanks in advance. I've read through this thread and all feedback seems great. Can't wait to take a listen! I'll look forward to your detailed review and appreciate the insights you've provided so far.


----------



## silver333

Hello, trust me !!! I also have the V281 and V800 dac, with my HD800 headphones are fine


----------



## Megalomaniak

pleasantsounds said:


> This gets me puzzled too.
> As far as I know V281 is top of the line Volievtric product.
> And if a balanced amp with a relay based volume attenuator is not high end gear, then I don't know what is.
> 
> Oh wait - I know: it doesn't have any tubes


 
  
 Amen to that.
  
 If someone thinks V281 plus an Audeze headphone or the Senn HD800 (for example) is not top end gear, you sir do have a problem.
  
 BTW, I dont like tubes, and Ive tried way expensive amps (McIntosh for example, some of them). And I cant get what they try:
  
 True tube amps do sound warm or lush or w/e, but the sound is always dirty compared to my V281. And the tube amps that sound neutral, with no "brand tone" or "brand signature", just neutral... Whats the point? You get a Beta22 for way less price and you get that neutral sound.
  
 Ive seen nothing as detailed as V281 does with that "bassy" or "warm" sound or w/e Violectric does to these amps that sound god like, and at the same time it doesnt harsh. Beta22 may be more detailed, or Auralic Taurus MKII, but they harsh and for me the sound is boring (for me).
  
 V281 is a "end of the line" amp.


----------



## project86

Agreed! I like me some tube amps, no doubt.... but given the choice of a DNA Stratus, Eddie Current Zana Deux, or V281 - I'd take the V281 every time. Haven't heard the latest Eddie Current stuff but it tends to cost significantly more than V281 anyway so it's not a good comparison.


----------



## roskodan

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance


----------



## Viper2005

megalomaniak said:


> V281 is a "end of the line" amp.


 
  
 I firmly believed that for the first month I had the V281.   Then I impulse bought the Ragnarok..


----------



## diamondears

viper2005 said:


> I firmly believed that for the first month I had the V281.   Then I impulse bought the Ragnarok..




No such thing as end of line, just honeymoon periods...especially if you read these forums...


----------



## Tony1110

I'd like to read a well thought out comparison between the two, written by somebody who has something useful and informative to say.


----------



## ellevoid

viper2005 said:


> I firmly believed that for the first month I had the V281.   Then I impulse bought the Ragnarok..


 
 Then use Ragnarok as Pre-amp and V281 as headphone amp with pregain -12db 
  
 LOL


----------



## Viper2005

ellevoid said:


> Then use Ragnarok as Pre-amp and V281 as headphone amp with pregain -12db
> 
> 
> LOL




I think the Vio would explode if I tried that lol!
But I did do the reverse, using the built in Coax Input DAC and using the Vio as preamp to Rag.. Didn't sound too bad, actually. Not near as good as my DA8 DAC but still decent!


----------



## Xenophon

tony1110 said:


> I'd like to read a well thought out comparison between the two, written by somebody who has something useful and informative to say.


 

 In the HE-6 thread, member Armaegis had a mini meet where they tried various headphones, among which the Rag and the V281.  He didn't compare them in detail, but at the price, preferred the Rag:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-magnetic-headphone/15375#post_11150289
  
 Obviously there's a hype going on with the Ragnarok, something to keep in mind.  I haven't heard either amp (have yet to hear stuff from Shiit that I'm impressed with) and each situation is different but personally, given the price of the Vio 281 can understand his position.  I'd probably go for a low power speaker amp like my F5, or for a vintage receiver that's been recapped with my harder to drive cans.  The 281 price is just too rich for me, given my sound preference and the gear I own.  But obviously, to each his own.


----------



## ellevoid

The hype around the Rag in head-fi is crazy!!!!!
  
 Might try it compare to V281 someday when dealer here has a demo unit.


----------



## Viper2005

xenophon said:


> In the HE-6 thread, member Armaegis had a mini meet where they tried various headphones, among which the Rag and the V281.  He didn't compare them in detail, but at the price, preferred the Rag:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-magnetic-headphone/15375#post_11150289
> 
> Obviously there's a hype going on with the Ragnarok, something to keep in mind.  I haven't heard either amp (have yet to hear stuff from Shiit that I'm impressed with) and each situation is different but personally, given the price of the Vio 281 can understand his position.  I'd probably go for a low power speaker amp like my F5, or for a vintage receiver that's been recapped with my harder to drive cans.  The 281 price is just too rich for me, given my sound preference and the gear I own.  But obviously, to each his own.


 
  
 Yes that was my Ragnarok and V281 at the meet, and the Rag was the clear winner.
 The Rag was more transparent, the highs were smooth, whereas the 281 had this... glare in the upper treble that really didn't agree with the HD800 treble spike (the v200 didn't have this).  The lows of the Rag were also more detailed, dug deeper and had better impact with the HE6's.


----------



## xaval

viper2005 said:


> Yes that was my Ragnarok and V281 at the meet, and the Rag was the clear winner.
> The Rag was more transparent, the highs were smooth, whereas the 281 had this... glare in the upper treble that really didn't agree with the HD800 treble spike (the v200 didn't have this).  The lows of the Rag were also more detailed, dug deeper and had better impact with the HE6's.


 
 Were you driving the HE6 balanced or single ended? I'm a bit curious about these cans but being a b1atch to drive has akways put me down.


----------



## Viper2005

xaval said:


> Were you driving the HE6 balanced or single ended? I'm a bit curious about these cans but being a b1atch to drive has akways put me down.




it was balanced.
Both the 281 and the Rag has plenty of power drive the HE6. The Rag was on medium gain, and the 281's pregain was set to zero.


----------



## Tony1110

xenophon said:


> In the HE-6 thread, member Armaegis had a mini meet where they tried various headphones, among which the Rag and the V281.  He didn't compare them in detail, but at the price, preferred the Rag:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-magnetic-headphone/15375#post_11150289
> 
> Obviously there's a hype going on with the Ragnarok, something to keep in mind.  I haven't heard either amp (have yet to hear stuff from Shiit that I'm impressed with) and each situation is different but personally, given the price of the Vio 281 can understand his position.  I'd probably go for a low power speaker amp like my F5, or for a vintage receiver that's been recapped with my harder to drive cans.  The 281 price is just too rich for me, given my sound preference and the gear I own.  But obviously, to each his own.




I would go for something more powerful than the V281 if my sole intention was to drive the HE-6. I've no doubt it can drive them, but on the basis of what I've read about that headphone's requirements, it looks to me that V281's output is adequate rather than optimal. The Master 9 and Ragnarok would probably be better headphone amps because of their power, but I'd opt for a speaker amp too.

I've messed around with a few sources and the V281 sounds different with each one. I think it's the kind of amp that lets you listen to your source. To my ears there is no obvious colouration.


----------



## xaval

roskodan said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance


 
 This article is superb and wasn't aware of it. A must read. Thanks!
  


tony1110 said:


> I would go for something more powerful than the V281 if my sole intention was to drive the HE-6. I've no doubt it can drive them, but on the basis of what I've read about that headphone's requirements, it looks to me that V281's output is adequate rather than optimal. The Master 9 and Ragnarok would probably be better headphone amps because of their power, but I'd opt for a speaker amp too.
> 
> I've messed around with a few sources and the V281 sounds different with each one. *I think it's the kind of amp that lets you listen to your source*. To my ears there is no obvious colouration.


 
 Add that to the capacity of powering virtually any headphone and that's why the amp is reference class material.


----------



## Xenophon

xaval said:


> This article is superb and wasn't aware of it. A must read. Thanks!


 
 Yes, it's a challenging read, I came across it a couple of weeks ago.  But it gets some serious and afaik well motivated headwind from Benchmark and another (unnamed) poster who obviously knows his electronics too, check out page 2 of the comments.  For me what's interesting is that the original article offers a plausible explanation about mechanical damping for planars being vastly more significant than electrical damping (which explains why a high output impedance transconductance amp like the FirstWatt F1J plays so well with cans like the HE-6).


----------



## xaval

Yes, voltage driven vs current driven amps get a nice intro on the subject also.
  
 I've ordered 3 impedance adapters for my cans: 100ohm, 33ohm and 15ohm. This should be a revealing experimentation with the V220 and should be fun to redo my parametric EQing on the side with some of the expected changes. So many options to play with all of a sudden.
  
 It should also be interesting to know what kind of equipment Dr. Meier is using for his measurements... but it's probably expensive and too complex to use. My ears will have to do!


----------



## project86

viper2005 said:


> Yes that was my Ragnarok and V281 at the meet, and the Rag was the clear winner.
> The Rag was more transparent, the highs were smooth, whereas the 281 had this... glare in the upper treble that really didn't agree with the HD800 treble spike (the v200 didn't have this).  The lows of the Rag were also more detailed, dug deeper and had better impact with the HE6's.


 
  
  
 Interesting. I don't hear any glare at all on the V281 - in fact that's always been a strength on every Lake People/Violectric design I've encountered. It would certainly be odd that V200 doesn't have it but two combined V200 modules (which is essentially what V281 works out to be) somehow _does _have that issue. 
  
 A friend recently acquired a Ragnarok so I'll try to hear it when I can. So far he thinks it sounds very similar to the Auralic Taurus mkII, slightly lagging behind the V281, and better than the Questyle CMA800.  Ideally we'll be able to directly compare all of them directly soon enough. He still maintains his Apex Peak/Volcano combo is better than every solid state amp he has tried.... which I don't necessarily agree with, but whatever.


----------



## Tony1110

project86 said:


> Interesting. I don't hear any glare at all on the V281 - in fact that's always been a strength on every Lake People/Violectric design I've encountered. It would certainly be odd that V200 doesn't have it but two combined V200 modules (which is essentially what V281 works out to be) somehow _does_ have that issue.
> 
> A friend recently acquired a Ragnarok so I'll try to hear it when I can. So far he thinks it sounds very similar to the Auralic Taurus mkII, slightly lagging behind the V281, and better than the Questyle CMA800.  Ideally we'll be able to directly compare all of them directly soon enough. He still maintains his Apex Peak/Volcano combo is better than every solid state amp he has tried.... which I don't necessarily agree with, but whatever.




Agree. Both the V200 and V281 have been completely free of glare on all the headphones I've used them with. It's a strange complaint to make about a Vio amp.


----------



## Viper2005

tony1110 said:


> Agree. Both the V200 and V281 have been completely free of glare on all the headphones I've used them with. It's a strange complaint to make about a Vio amp.




I hear it mostly with the hd800 (and also a bit when I demoed a modded HE6, I would expect an unmodded HE6 to show more of this). The v200 and to a lesser extent the Rag, both impart a 'laid back' sense to my hd800 treble, but the 281 seems to bring it up front which is somewhat annoying to my ear. Can't explain it. *shrug


----------



## Revogamer

viper2005 said:


> I hear it mostly with the hd800 (and also a bit when I demoed a modded HE6, I would expect an unmodded HE6 to show more of this). The v200 and to a lesser extent the Rag, both impart a 'laid back' sense to my hd800 treble, but the 281 seems to bring it up front which is somewhat annoying to my ear. Can't explain it. *shrug




Have you tried other dacs?

I found that issue with sabre dacs and shouty high mids which made some artists sound like they were shouting at you and a bit harsher I didn't notice it until I had higher end amps to be transparent enough.


----------



## Viper2005

revogamer said:


> Have you tried other dacs?
> 
> I found that issue with sabre dacs and shouty high mids which made some artists sound like they were shouting at you and a bit harsher I didn't notice it until I had higher end amps to be transparent enough.




I did try the internal Dac (coax input) board of the V281, and the glare is a bit less evident. 
But for my comparison I used the Sabre DA8 because it is the same Dac I had used previously with the v200, and is currently the Dac I use with the Ragnarok, both of which didn't show this shouty nature. I had also read that Yulongs implementation of the 9018 in the DA 8 is a bit smoother than some other implementations using the same chip.

Edit: perhaps "glare" might not be right term to describe what I'm hearing, but there is this tizzy treble in some (probably poor) recordings that grate in my ear with the HD800s, that was not evident with the V200 nor the Rag (using the same source and Dac). I may just have a liking for "smooth" treble, which the Vio's were known for. They did say they added some top end to the V281 so maybe that's what it is.


----------



## project86

viper2005 said:


> I did try the internal Dac (coax input) board of the V281, and the glare is a bit less evident.
> But for my comparison I used the Sabre DA8 because it is the same Dac I had used previously with the v200, and is currently the Dac I use with the Ragnarok, both of which didn't show this shouty nature. I had also read that Yulongs implementation of the 9018 in the DA 8 is a bit smoother than some other implementations using the same chip.
> 
> Edit: perhaps "glare" might not be right term to describe what I'm hearing, but there is this tizzy treble in some (probably poor) recordings that grate in my ear with the HD800s, that was not evident with the V200 nor the Rag (using the same source and Dac). I may just have a liking for "smooth" treble, which the Vio's were known for. They did say they added some top end to the V281 so maybe that's what it is.


 
  
  
 Yep, the DA8 is on the smoother side, so I'm at a loss to explain it. Are you setting the DA8 to full scale output (by pressing the volume knob, thus deactivating the volume control)? I wonder if you tried it slightly lower volume on the Yulong, maybe it is some kind of mismatch? Dunno what else to say. Is this in SE mode as well as balanced?


----------



## Megalomaniak

viper2005 said:


> I did try the internal Dac (coax input) board of the V281, and the glare is a bit less evident.
> But for my comparison I used the Sabre DA8 because it is the same Dac I had used previously with the v200, and is currently the Dac I use with the Ragnarok, both of which didn't show this shouty nature. I had also read that Yulongs implementation of the 9018 in the DA 8 is a bit smoother than some other implementations using the same chip.
> 
> Edit: perhaps "glare" might not be right term to describe what I'm hearing, but there is this tizzy treble in some (probably poor) recordings that grate in my ear with the HD800s, that was not evident with the V200 nor the Rag (using the same source and Dac). I may just have a liking for "smooth" treble, which the Vio's were known for. They did say they added some top end to the V281 so maybe that's what it is.


 
 I love smooth trebles too (my main headphone is the LCD-2, I prefer it way over the HD800) and the V281 doesnt have (in either LCD, HD800, K701 or w/e) that tizzy treble or glare. The trebble couldnt be smoother! In fact, Burson Soloist had more harsh up there with the 800's.


----------



## Viper2005

project86 said:


> Yep, the DA8 is on the smoother side, so I'm at a loss to explain it. Are you setting the DA8 to full scale output (by pressing the volume knob, thus deactivating the volume control)? I wonder if you tried it slightly lower volume on the Yulong, maybe it is some kind of mismatch? Dunno what else to say. Is this in SE mode as well as balanced?


 
  
 I'm using the DA8 with Amplifier on OFF mode, I really haven't done much listening on the SE jack as all my phones are balanced.
  
 I was doing some searching to see if anyone else has experienced this treble 'feature' and it appears that Purrin has the same observations as me..
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/667711/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil/2955#post_10906742


----------



## Megalomaniak

viper2005 said:


> I'm using the DA8 with Amplifier on OFF mode, I really haven't done much listening on the SE jack as all my phones are balanced.
> 
> I was doing some searching to see if anyone else has experienced this treble 'feature' and it appears that Purrin has the same observations as me..
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/667711/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil/2955#post_10906742


 
 Those coments doesnt meet at all my perceptions.
  
 Strident sounding? My god, you can plug your HD800s and turn all the volume way up to the sky and never get a tiny sibilande or harsh, thats so strange. In all the months ive been with my V281 never heard that "sibilance" thing, or strident thing. Even a 6000€ McIntosh amplifier I heard was way more strident/sibilant, or the Burson stuff, etc. In fact, is one thing I love about it, I listen to a lot of "not well recorded music" and I could listen at it with the 800's or LCD-2 like heaven, before the vio I couldnt with other Amps. The more volume you have, the better bass it gives and the lesser harshy treble you encounter!
  
 I dont share that perceptions at all. Also V281 has some balls down there to rock the bottom of all headphones you plug. This is nonsense.
  
 Also the Rag is way more expensive here in Europe, 1799€ since my V281 was 1380€, what a joke!


----------



## Tony1110

They don't meet mine either. They do not describe the V281's sound at all. There is no tizzyness whatsoever and there is nothing lacking in the bottom end.

I'm not going to buy the Ragnarok because I've bought Schiit products before on the basis of lots of hype and none of them have particularly impressed me.


----------



## Xenophon

No need to get personal or belligerent....it's just an amp and everyone is entitled to his opinion.  What's smooth to you might sound muddled to me.  Matter of fact, despite it having a couple of crippling defects, one of the things I like about the Burson amps vs the V200 is their speed and crispness.  Preferring one amp over another does not a fool make....


----------



## alvinmate

xenophon said:


> No need to get personal or belligerent....it's just an amp and everyone is entitled to his opinion.  What's smooth to you might sound muddled to me.  Matter of fact, despite it having a couple of crippling defects, one of the things I like about the Burson amps vs the V200 is their speed and crispness.  Preferring one amp over another does not a fool make....


 

 I agree with above comments... no need to bash or criticize any particular product or brand.... At this level it becomes a personal preference and everyone has their own opinion.........Just relax and enjoy the music....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
                                                               Happy holidays to everyone


----------



## Megalomaniak

Im not going personal or anything like that. Someone prefer A amp, others prefer B amp, thats legit.
  
 Whats not legit is the perceptions this guy got from the V281, they dont meet anyones ones. You might like or not the the amp, but saying that it has hard trebble and it doesnt reach bottom bass is nonsense. Just that. It should be problem of the DAC, cuz im running it with a 250€ Musical Fidelity V-DAC II (DSD1792) and a PCM1792A DAC, the Xonar Essence STX. And those DACs extract a lot of detail with no harsh at all and a top level amount of deep bass.
  
 Even my iPhone 4S as DAC offers a hell of a lot of deep bass.
  
 Its like saying that the HD800 is not analytical. Thats not true.


----------



## Tony1110

viper2005 said:


> I hear it mostly with the hd800 (and also a bit when I demoed a modded HE6, I would expect an unmodded HE6 to show more of this). The v200 and to a lesser extent the Rag, both impart a 'laid back' sense to my hd800 treble, but the 281 seems to bring it up front which is somewhat annoying to my ear. Can't explain it. *shrug




I think it was Roskodan who said that the treble can be altered by means of the jumpers inside the amp. If you're hearing tizzyness or glare you might want to give that a shot. Did Purrin hear your amp?


----------



## xaval

System matching.
  
 As said before, the Vio is very true to the source. I hear no lack of bottom end on any of my DACs. I hear no stridency or tizzyness or glare on top end either with the internal Vio DAC or with the Bushmaster. I hear a bit of that glare and sibilance with the Audiolab because it's what this DAC can do under some circumstances and despite that, I love it for what it can do with my speakers and speaker amp.
  
 It's also about relative impressions.
  
 I have no experience with the Rag and I'll admit that listening to both the Rag and Vio under the same DAC (and headphone) to some it may come as the Rag being smoother on top and deeper down there. Purrin is one of the most prolific impressions poster with amps and DACs. He's also very consistent with his impressions and you can easily tell what he likes and dislikes after a couple dozen posts.
  
 As always, imo we're nitpicking with comparisons. And nitpicking is what HF is all about. This new Vio amp is a serious contender and that's a fact for me.


----------



## Viper2005

tony1110 said:


> I think it was Roskodan who said that the treble can be altered by means of the jumpers inside the amp. If you're hearing tizzyness or glare you might want to give that a shot. Did Purrin hear your amp?


 
  
 No it wasn't mine, but his observations about the treble seem to jive with my own experience.   
 Although I do think both the Rag and V281 have comparable deep bass kick, I'm not sure I have any material that goes super low to test the lowest octaves.
 I haven't tried opening up the amp yet, I might give it a try!


----------



## silver333

... try with Rockna Wavedream Platinum balanced, I would say that is fantastic


----------



## Tony1110

xaval said:


> System matching.
> 
> As said before, the Vio is very true to the source. I hear no lack of bottom end on any of my DACs. I hear no stridency or tizzyness or glare on top end either with the internal Vio DAC or with the Bushmaster. I hear a bit of that glare and sibilance with the Audiolab because it's what this DAC can do under some circumstances and despite that, I love it for what it can do with my speakers and speaker amp.
> 
> ...




That's right. I've heard profound changes each time I've switched source. The fact that the amplifier gets out of the way without imposing much of its own character is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. I feel like I'm hearing what my DAC can do in a pure, untarnished kind of way. I suppose it could be a double-edged sword for fussier headphones: you have the advantage of only having to choose the appropriate source but you don't get the sugar coating that a lot of amps offer. Personal preference as to which way you want to do it, I suppose.

But there is definitely no tizz or glare inherent to the V281's sound.


----------



## saxelrod92

Yea I've had the V281 for a few months now, and it's basically neutral with a slight liquid overall tone to it. There was never any burn in, or change to the sound in all these months, and it handled every headphone perfectly. Even without being able to try different dacs I still feel like I'm listening to the dac rather than the amp, pretty cool how it does that. Also no glare or anything like that, unless the song/sound files had it in them/the headphones are prone to it. I think in general the V281 just reminds me of sound is heard naturally, like the way it would sound to you if you heard it live, but not like a concert, like if you were in a room where musicians were playing (Ignoring soundstage). Meaning it sounds the way your ears would interpret it if you weren't listening to a recording, whether its electric guitar through an amp, or acoustic drums, or even EDM before it gets mastered and compressed, music and audio in general don't really sound warm or analytical or neutral in real life, it sounds like whatever the instrument or source of the sound makes it sound like, but our ears will tend to hear it with a high degree of detail, and slight liquid/organic tone, regardless of the instrument. So for an amp to be able to get out of the way like this, is something I really value highly, because I play drums and have played in heavy bands, and a lot of the time I find that amps and headphones and dacs just don't do a great job or recreating what those sounds really sound like if you were in the room they were being made.

 Most audio reproduction gear will make it sound warm, neutral, or bright, and everything in between. but those aren't very good ways to recreate sound, instead those do make for great ways to please someone who wants to hear sound in a certain way, which is fine, dont get me wrong, but I'm just saying the V281 is recreating sounds, in my opinion, the most proper way sound should be recreated. It's hard for me to find good descriptive words to explain this, because its not really neutral, or organic, or liquid, or whatever, it just....correct, to what I'm familiar with in real instruments or music creation sources.
  
 I also experience a similar thing with the Alpha Primes going balanced through the V281.
  
 And I'm just using a schiit bifrost uber as the dac to achieve all this.


----------



## Tony1110

saxelrod92 said:


> Yea I've had the V281 for a few months now, and it's basically neutral with a slight liquid overall tone to it. There was never any burn in, or change to the sound in all these months, and it handled every headphone perfectly. Even without being able to try different dacs I still feel like I'm listening to the dac rather than the amp, pretty cool how it does that. Also no glare or anything like that, unless the song/sound files had it in them/the headphones are prone to it. I think in general the V281 just reminds me of sound is heard naturally, like the way it would sound to you if you heard it live, but not like a concert, like if you were in a room where musicians were playing (Ignoring soundstage). Meaning it sounds the way your ears would interpret it if you weren't listening to a recording, whether its electric guitar through an amp, or acoustic drums, or even EDM before it gets mastered and compressed, music and audio in general don't really sound warm or analytical or neutral in real life, it sounds like whatever the instrument or source of the sound makes it sound like, but our ears will tend to hear it with a high degree of detail, and slight liquid/organic tone, regardless of the instrument. So for an amp to be able to get out of the way like this, is something I really value highly, because I play drums and have played in heavy bands, and a lot of the time I find that amps and headphones and dacs just don't do a great job or recreating what those sounds really sound like if you were in the room they were being made.
> 
> 
> Most audio reproduction gear will make it sound warm, neutral, or bright, and everything in between. but those aren't very good ways to recreate sound, instead those do make for great ways to please someone who wants to hear sound in a certain way, which is fine, dont get me wrong, but I'm just saying the V281 is recreating sounds, in my opinion, the most proper way sound should be recreated. It's hard for me to find good descriptive words to explain this, because its not really neutral, or organic, or liquid, or whatever, it just....correct, to what I'm familiar with in real instruments or music creation sources.
> ...




V281 is outstanding with the Primes. Best combination of amp and headphones I've heard.


----------



## Nomax




----------



## xaval

nomax said:


>


 
 Thanks, but Fried had already made a notice of this a few weeks ago.
  
 Nomax, when is the king coming afterall 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?


----------



## Tony1110

Doesn't look like Thomann have put their prices up yet.


----------



## naimless

No they haven't and they are cheaper than violectric's own website even before the price rise,I've ordered mine from thomann only trouble is they are out of stock at the moment so I now have to wait.


----------



## roskodan

they give 3 years warranty as well as 30 days money back, and sincerely i don't think there will be a street price increase, retailers, third parties have always better prices somehow


----------



## Tony1110

On a different note, I am expecting to take delivery of the LCD-3 next week (a loan). Can't wait to hear them out of this beast.


----------



## mulder01

Maybe some people are good enough to sell the stock they have at the original prices.


----------



## roskodan

tony1110 said:


> On a different note, I am expecting to take delivery of the LCD-3 next week (a loan). Can't wait to hear them out of this beast.


 

 120 ohm fazor drivers or the classic non fazor 50 ohm? loan from uk dealer or?


----------



## Xenophon

mulder01 said:


> Maybe some people are good enough to sell the stock they have at the original prices.


 

 That's what they usually do but even Thomann doesn't keep a large stock.  But they've always been about 10% less expensive than Violectric direct sales, which is always the most expensive option.


----------



## Tony1110

roskodan said:


> 120 ohm fazor drivers or the classic non fazor 50 ohm? loan from uk dealer or?




I'm hoping the latter.


----------



## roskodan

but at 120 ohm it's max power !


----------



## Tony1110

roskodan said:


> but at 120 ohm it's max power !




The V281's max output is at 120 ohm? I didn't know that. I was hoping to get the classic because I think I'd prefer its signature. I'd be happy with either tbh. I feel like my setup would be perfect for the LCD-3.


----------



## roskodan

to tell the truth i preferred the hd800 on the conductor while the v200 was just magic for the lcd3 classic, yes dark and intimate but ultra high res and really killer tonality like you could tell different brands of strings on the instruments kind of feeling, hope you get the fazor XD


----------



## Tony1110

​


roskodan said:


> to tell the truth i preferred the hd800 on the conductor while the v200 was just magic for the lcd3 classic, yes dark and intimate but ultra high res and really killer tonality like you could tell different brands of strings on the instruments kind of feeling, hope you get the fazor XD




I've no experience with the HD800 but tons of people like it out of V200. The Conductor seems to be more divisive. Speaking of Burson, I notice the powers that be have locked all Burson-related threads. Strange.


----------



## Xenophon

tony1110 said:


> ​ I've no experience with the HD800 but tons of people like it out of V200. The Conductor seems to be more divisive. Speaking of Burson, I notice the powers that be have locked all Burson-related threads. Strange.


 

 I own a HD-800 and a V200, also auditioned a conductor.  Both are fine amps* and the HD-800 are great headphones but as always, it all depends on what you prefer.  I found the Conductor to be very 'fast' and crisp/clear, very detailed.  Those are things I tend to like as a matter of personal taste; by comparison I found the V200 to be less detailed and warmer. Especially in the top end I'm not really sold on it.   But I can imagine that for some people, headphones like the HD-800 combined with the conductor might be too much and tend toward a strident, unengaging, clinical rendition of music without 'soul'.  The V200 takes the HD-800 down a notch imo, wether that's a good thing or not is a matter of opinion and taste.  
  
 An analogy with another amp I own (the F5-clone):  it's possible to adjust the bias of that one to lowest distortion (using a signal generator and a scope, not by ear) but the large majority of listeners will prefer the sound that has a bit more distortion in it.  The conductor would be that amp, dialed to minimum distortion, the V200 the same with a bit more 2nd and 3rd harmonic in it.
  
 For me and with the HD-800:
  
 V200:  small ensemble classical; vocal works, jazz
 Burson: large orchestral works, piano recitals, fast-paced music.
  
 *For a reason which I fail to grasp as it's an ss amp, the Burson conductor that I tried only sounded its best after a long warmup (30 minutes or so) time.


----------



## daerron

How is the sound stage on V220 and V281 in comparison to the V100 and/or V200? I'm having difficulty adjusting to the smaller sound stage on the V100 with the HE-500 which I found a noticeable change from my Mini-X which was quite spacious sounding especially on width, though I have to go by memory there having sold it some while ago. It is certainly better sounding than the Mini-X and I like the punchy and slightly warm sound of the V100, its just the presentation that feels slightly odd. Maybe it will just take some time to adjust, otherwise I might have to look at the V220 or V281 if there is a noticeable improvement to be found there?


----------



## shultzee

UGH.   I am going to have to part ways with my 3 month old V281 in black.  Need to fund a high end portable system.  If someone is looking for a good deal , please pm me.


----------



## Tony1110

daerron said:


> How is the sound stage on V220 and V281 in comparison to the V100 and/or V200? I'm having difficulty adjusting to the smaller sound stage on the V100 with the HE-500 which I found a noticeable change from my Mini-X which was quite spacious sounding especially on width, though I have to go by memory there having sold it some while ago. It is certainly better sounding than the Mini-X and I like the punchy and slightly warm sound of the V100, its just the presentation that feels slightly odd. Maybe it will just take some time to adjust, otherwise I might have to look at the V220 or V281 if there is a noticeable improvement to be found there?




From what I remember of the V200, the soundstage is very...intimate. If the single-ended output of the V281 is identical to the V220, then soundstage is, from memory, bigger. Using the V281's balanced out makes a significant difference again, and soundstage - both width and depth - is one of the biggest beneficiaries. It's something I noticed within seconds of plugging in my balanced cable.

If soundstage and imaging capabilities are high on your list of priorities, the V281 would probably be difficult to beat. It's quite incredible sometimes.


----------



## Viper2005

The V281 definately has a larger soundstage than the v200, especially through the balanced output.
The nice yummy warmth of the V200 has been significantly lessened on the v281, though. I think it's a bit brighter than it's predecessor.


----------



## Tony1110

viper2005 said:


> The V281 definately has a larger soundstage than the v200, especially through the balanced output.
> The nice yummy warmth of the V200 has been significantly lessened on the v281, though. I think it's a bit brighter than it's predecessor.




I'd say neutral rather than bright. It's probably not a great choice for those seeking colouration from their amp.


----------



## Viper2005

tony1110 said:


> I'd say neutral rather than bright. It's probably not a great choice for those seeking colouration from their amp.



I can agree with that assessment.
The V200 is definately a colored amp, and I have to admit I was disappointed its successor didn't keep that signature warm sound.


----------



## plakat

viper2005 said:


> I can agree with that assessment.
> The V200 is definately a colored amp, and I have to admit I was disappointed its successor didn't keep that signature warm sound.


 

 One persons loss, another one's gain 
 I skipped the V200 due to that specific trait and am quite happy that the V281 is a bit less warm while retaining that powerful bass... still I found just today that it pairs not so well with a T90 as I'd expected: sounds a bit harsh even, the A2 on high output impedance setting is a better companion to the T90.


----------



## Tony1110

plakat said:


> One persons loss, another one's gain
> I skipped the V200 due to that specific trait and am quite happy that the V281 is a bit less warm while retaining that powerful bass... still I found just today that it pairs not so well with a T90 as I'd expected: sounds a bit harsh even, the A2 on high output impedance setting is a better companion to the T90.




V200 is a good amp for certain headphones, certain genres and certain tastes - it'd probably be a great amp for the T90 - but the V281 trounces it in terms of dynamics, PrAT, resolution, treble extension, soundstage and imaging. I'm curious to hear the Ragnarok, but for my tastes and for my headphones V281 is perfect.


----------



## uelover

plakat said:


> One persons loss, another one's gain
> I skipped the V200 due to that specific trait and am quite happy that the V281 is a bit less warm while retaining that powerful bass... still I found just today that it pairs not so well with a T90 as I'd expected: sounds a bit harsh even, the A2 on high output impedance setting is a better companion to the T90.


 
  
 I think that is the problem with the T90 itself. Needs an amp that will tone down (color) its harshness.


----------



## plakat

tony1110 said:


> V200 is a good amp for certain headphones, certain genres and certain tastes - it'd probably be a great amp for the T90 - but the V281 trounces it in terms of dynamics, PrAT, resolution, treble extension, soundstage and imaging. I'm curious to hear the Ragnarok, but for my tastes and for my headphones V281 is perfect.


 
  
 Yes, T90+V200 might be a combination worth considering. But its fine with the A2, so I'll just use that and enjoy the V281 with the Abyss or the K812, both very nice pairings.
  


uelover said:


> I think that is the problem with the T90 itself. Needs an amp that will tone down (color) its harshness.


 
  
 The T90 is quite treble-happy for sure. I've not found it problematic so far, I was just surprised that it did not pair that well with the V281, which I considered having rather smooth treble. But yes, the V281 is actually excellent in that regard, finding a good balance between smoothness and resolution. And I still admire its bass, strong and effortless while clean and not overblown.


----------



## xaval

Can´t compare to V200 ou V281 but... V220 has quite a large horizontal soundstage, less so vertically (please note, not short, just not as tal). Lets call it oblong 
  
 On another note, I noticed that on my V220, the headphone outs don't sound the same. Facing the device, the better one is on the left. On the right side something is different, as details are smeared and not as imaging correctly... out of phase like... can someone verify this?


----------



## Viper2005

xaval said:


> Can´t compare to V200 ou V281 but... V220 has quite a large horizontal soundstage, less so vertically (please note, not short, just not as tal). Lets call it oblong
> 
> On another note, I noticed that on my V220, the headphone outs don't sound the same. Facing the device, the better one is on the left. On the right side something is different, as details are smeared and not as imaging correctly... out of phase like... can someone verify this?




I know that in the V281, the left SE out is in phase and the right SE out has inverted phase. I am not sure if this is the case with the V220..


----------



## plakat

viper2005 said:


> I know that in the V281, the left SE out is in phase and the right SE out has inverted phase. I am not sure if this is the case with the V220..


 

 No, as the V220 is missing the other 2 amps that make the V281 output balanced. I guess both sockets on the V220 are just parallel, but the block diagram in the manual is not clear on this. Maybe a wiring error...


----------



## saxelrod92

on the V220 both outputs come from the same amp board, so unlike in the V281, there shouldn't be any change in phase between the jacks. When I got my V281 and I was talking to Arthur (who runs the US Violectric store) he said there should not be any difference between the jacks at all, V220 or V281, both should be identical. so if you can objectively hear a difference between the two, like a noticeable one, I'd send an email to whoever you bought it from because then something is off internally.


----------



## xaval

Thanks for the input about the heaphone out... It's a bit tough if I have to return it again.


----------



## ellevoid

viper2005 said:


> I know that in the V281, the left SE out is in phase and the right SE out has inverted phase. I am not sure if this is the case with the V220..


 
  
 I never know that before. What is the difference between the two in term of sound ?


----------



## PleasantSounds

saxelrod92 said:


> on the V220 both outputs come from the same amp board, so unlike in the V281, there shouldn't be any change in phase between the jacks. When I got my V281 and I was talking to Arthur (who runs the US Violectric store) he said there should not be any difference between the jacks at all, V220 or V281, both should be identical. so if you can objectively hear a difference between the two, like a noticeable one, I'd send an email to whoever you bought it from because then something is off internally.


 
  
 Well, at least in V281 there is a difference, even if Arthur says something else. By default they provide SE signal in phase and reversed, as stated before. But it is also possible to configure them through jumper settings to provide balanced output.
 I have no idea if the V220 has some equivalent jumper settings (and what purpose might they serve), but maybe it's worth checking the diagrams in user manual.


----------



## Xenophon

ellevoid said:


> I never know that before. What is the difference between the two in term of sound ?


 

 With this setup, there shouldn't be any difference.


----------



## plakat

pleasantsounds said:


> Well, at least in V281 there is a difference, even if Arthur says something else. By default they provide SE signal in phase and reversed, as stated before. But it is also possible to configure them through jumper settings to provide balanced output.
> I have no idea if the V220 has some equivalent jumper settings (and what purpose might they serve), but maybe it's worth checking the diagrams in user manual.


 

 I've not found anthing indicating any configuratino options for the output on the V220. According to the block diagram the connectors are simply wired in parallel.
  
@xaval maybe you want to peek inside for anything obviously wrong on the second connector before contacting Violectric.


----------



## saxelrod92

on the V281 the only difference is that one is in phase and the other is reversed phase. but that doesnt do anything to the sound. and on the V220 they just run in parallel so there is even less difference. anything other than identical sound coming from both jacks is something that needs to be checked.


----------



## xaval

plakat said:


> I've not found anthing indicating any configuratino options for the output on the V220. According to the block diagram the connectors are simply wired in parallel.
> 
> @xaval maybe you want to peek inside for anything obviously wrong on the second connector before contacting Violectric.


 
 Thx. I'll open the box first, in case it's something I can fix for myself.


----------



## roskodan

viper2005 said:


> xaval said:
> 
> 
> > Can´t compare to V200 ou V281 but... V220 has quite a large horizontal soundstage, less so vertically (please note, not short, just not as tal). Lets call it oblong
> ...


 

 globally inverted phase is not an issue since it's not really something one can hear (means both channels left and right are inverted by 180 in relation to the signal, the leading edge is inverted on both, but between them there is no inversion or deviation, meaning they (L & R), ) are actually in phase, which is the most important thing), on the other hand if the left and right channels (on the same output) are inverted (or deviated), one from the other, then it's gonna sound awful, if you play a bass sinusoid (center imaging, same signal on L & R) it's not gonna sound in the center but like if you had two sources, one in each ear (L & R, not one in the center), like out of head
  
 so check out if the L & R channels are in phase on that output you find sounding strange, http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php , go under 'Wiring' and the 'center' track should portray a waterfall in the center with a lot of nice sub bass extension, while the 'twisted' will sound out of head, like two different sounds L & R, if you find the opposite then the output is wired wrong


----------



## Tony1110

There's a new V281 review on Headphone Guru if anyone's interested. It's very positive.


----------



## Xenophon

tony1110 said:


> There's a new V281 review on Headphone Guru if anyone's interested. It's very positive.


 

 Well, when was the last time you read a negative review about anything on one of those sites?  I scanned the piece but not overly impressed with the quality, to be honest.  He got Fried Reim's name wrong....twice.  Then came a helpful blurb about an excellent pairing of a balanced nordost cable with the HD-800....each his own but I'm not a cable believer and don't tend to associate passionate beleivers with objectivity.
  
 Anyway,  I've read better and more founded impressions of the V281 right here from some of the posters in this thread.


----------



## ellevoid

xenophon said:


> Well, when was the last time you read a negative review about anything on one of those sites?  I scanned the piece but not overly impressed with the quality, to be honest.  He got Fried Reim's name wrong....twice.  Then came a helpful blurb about an excellent pairing of a balanced nordost cable with the HD-800....each his own but I'm not a cable believer and don't tend to associate passionate beleivers with objectivity.
> 
> Anyway,  I've read better and more founded impressions of the V281 right here from some of the posters in this thread.


 
  
 I do paired V281 with HD800+Nordost Heimdall and I also think it is incredibly revealing too.


----------



## plakat

xenophon said:


> Well, when was the last time you read a negative review about anything on one of those sites?  I scanned the piece but not overly impressed with the quality, to be honest.  He got Fried Reim's name wrong....twice.  Then came a helpful blurb about an excellent pairing of a balanced nordost cable with the HD-800....each his own but I'm not a cable believer and don't tend to associate passionate beleivers with objectivity.
> 
> Anyway,  I've read better and more founded impressions of the V281 right here from some of the posters in this thread.


 

 While I can understand that they don't publish negative reviews (in part due to backlash by fans I guess -- many things are a matter of taste after all), its about what I thought after reading over the piece. My interest in a review fades away the moment cables are mentioned...


----------



## project86

To be fair, the key draw of the V281 is balanced operation, which requires..... balanced cables. I know Sennheiser makes their own balanced HD800 cable now but it's so expensive you might as well get a proper aftermarket model instead.
  
 I think as long as people don't beat you over the head with their views on cables, it's not offensive to hear about them in a review - either for or against. Same goes with politics, religion, and many other divisive topics. I've got an article in the works for Headphone.guru discussing this very issue.


----------



## plakat

project86 said:


> To be fair, the key draw of the V281 is balanced operation, which requires..... balanced cables. I know Sennheiser makes their own balanced HD800 cable now but it's so expensive you might as well get a proper aftermarket model instead.
> 
> I think as long as people don't beat you over the head with their views on cables, it's not offensive to hear about them in a review - either for or against. Same goes with politics, religion, and many other divisive topics. I've got an article in the works for Headphone.guru discussing this very issue.


 

 You're correct of course. Thats why I said 'my interest fades' and not 'my interest vanishes' 
 The latter happens if the review happens to center more around the cable than the headphone and/or amp...
  
 Using another cable due to high costs of the original Sennheiser cable is a valid point, but I have to say that the mention of using a balanced cable without further details would even be enough for me. I don't want to bash Frank here in any way and appreciate his long writeup with obviously long listening sessions, but I just did not get into the review.
  
 Maybe a good time to thank you for your balanced postings and reviews btw.


----------



## Megalomaniak

project86 said:


> To be fair, the key draw of the V281 is balanced operation, which requires..... balanced cables. I know Sennheiser makes their own balanced HD800 cable now but it's so expensive you might as well get a proper aftermarket model instead.
> 
> I think as long as people don't beat you over the head with their views on cables, it's not offensive to hear about them in a review - either for or against. Same goes with politics, religion, and many other divisive topics. I've got an article in the works for Headphone.guru discussing this very issue.


 
 +1
  
 I dont believe in cables either, my LCD-2 balanced cable is 66€, neutrik connectors and silver wiring, 1.5m. 14€ cheaper than Audeze's original one and because it uses silver, its very thin which is nice.
  
 But as you say, let it be if someone believes in but doesnt make you to.


----------



## Tony1110

project86 said:


> To be fair, the key draw of the V281 is balanced operation, which requires..... balanced cables. I know Sennheiser makes their own balanced HD800 cable now but it's so expensive you might as well get a proper aftermarket model instead.
> 
> I think as long as people don't beat you over the head with their views on cables, it's not offensive to hear about them in a review - either for or against. Same goes with politics, religion, and many other divisive topics. I've got an article in the works for Headphone.guru discussing this very issue.




Yours is the review we're all waiting for


----------



## gebo

tony1110 said:


> Yours is the review we're all waiting for



+1; exactly.....


----------



## mulder01

I think he was saying he's writing an article on people's review writing techniques not on the v281.


----------



## plakat

That was my impression as well...


----------



## Frank I

xenophon said:


> Well, when was the last time you read a negative review about anything on one of those sites?  I scanned the piece but not overly impressed with the quality, to be honest.  He got Fried Reim's name wrong....twice.  Then came a helpful blurb about an excellent pairing of a balanced nordost cable with the HD-800....each his own but I'm not a cable believer and don't tend to associate passionate beleivers with objectivity.
> 
> Anyway,  I've read better and more founded impressions of the V281 right here from some of the posters in this thread.


 
 I thi


xenophon said:


> Well, when was the last time you read a negative review about anything on one of those sites?  I scanned the piece but not overly impressed with the quality, to be honest.  He got Fried Reim's name wrong....twice.  Then came a helpful blurb about an excellent pairing of a balanced nordost cable with the HD-800....each his own but I'm not a cable believer and don't tend to associate passionate beleivers with objectivity.
> 
> Anyway,  I've read better and more founded impressions of the V281 right here from some of the posters in this thread.


 
 The review was an honest review. The DAC part of my review included my feelings about using a separate more revealing Dac. Have you heard the Nordost Heimdall cable with the hD800?  Perhaps you can find one for  a demo and report your findings here.. The amplifier is excellent but I would use a different dac to get the most out of it.  The review was objective if it was not then I would not have brought out the shortcoming of what I felt  was with the DAC section of the V281.


----------



## Xenophon

frank i said:


> I thi
> The review was an honest review. The DAC part of my review included my feelings about using a separate more revealing Dac. Have you heard the Nordost Heimdall cable with the hD800?  Perhaps you can find one for  a demo and report your findings here.. The amplifier is excellent but I would use a different dac to get the most out of it.  The review was objective if it was not then I would not have brought out the shortcoming of what I felt  was with the DAC section of the V281.


 

 IMO there's no arguing about cables, balanced or other.  No, I didn't try the one you used but to me a cable is a cable...a conductor and a connector on both ends. Signal in-->Signal out.  Hook it to a scope and observe.  With interconnects, I tried a couple of el cheapo (but decent) ones and compared them at his place to a couple owned by a friend who freely admits that he makes more money than what's healthy for him and hence he blows thousands on gear such as interconnects that cost  a couple k EUR for a 1 meter pair.  He switched, I listened, then the other way around.  Result after 25 iterations:  no significant difference.  For honesty's sake:  while we were doing this we were also enjoying a bottle of excellent scotch (liquor wise there does seem to be a positive correlation between price and quality).  This was with my HD-800, I don't recall the amp used at the time but the dac was an MSB diamond dac, the music a high resolution version of Beethoven's Kreutzer sonata.  Some people believe cables make a difference, I don't* and haven't ever seen a technical explanation as to why they should differ so let's leave it at that.  Nothing personal but I wasn't really impressed with the review and again, nothing personal and the following is not aimed at you per se so don't take it wrong but I have a hard time believing that any site that derives a portion of its income from sponsoring or advertising can afford to post negative reviews of gear.  To name one:  on 6moons I sometimes read stuff that is beyond fanciful.  I do, however, agree with your assessment of the USB module that Violectric uses.
  
 *For signals in the audible frequency domain.


----------



## ellevoid

xenophon said:


> IMO there's no arguing about cables, balanced or other.  No, I didn't try the one you used but to me a cable is a cable...a conductor and a connector on both ends. Signal in-->Signal out.  Hook it to a scope and observe.  With interconnects, I tried a couple of el cheapo (but decent) ones and compared them at his place to a couple owned by a friend who freely admits that he makes more money than what's healthy for him and hence he blows thousands on gear such as interconnects that cost  a couple k EUR for a 1 meter pair.  He switched, I listened, then the other way around.  Result after 25 iterations:  no significant difference.  For honesty's sake:  while we were doing this we were also enjoying a bottle of excellent scotch (liquor wise there does seem to be a positive correlation between price and quality).  This was with my HD-800, I don't recall the amp used at the time but the dac was an MSB diamond dac, the music a high resolution version of Beethoven's Kreutzer sonata.  Some people believe cables make a difference, I don't* and haven't ever seen a technical explanation as to why they should differ so let's leave it at that.  Nothing personal but I wasn't really impressed with the review and again, nothing personal and the following is not aimed at you per se so don't take it wrong but I have a hard time believing that any site that derives a portion of its income from sponsoring or advertising can afford to post negative reviews of gear.  To name one:  on 6moons I sometimes read stuff that is beyond fanciful.  I do, however, agree with your assessment of the USB module that Violectric uses.
> 
> *For signals in the audible frequency domain.


 

 You said no arguing about cables but your wrote a lot arguing about cables. LOL


----------



## Xenophon

ellevoid said:


> You said no arguing about cables but your wrote a lot arguing about cables. LOL


 

 What I say is that they don't make one whit of a difference in objective terms.  But I don't want to write more about my opinion here because these discussions degrade in pointless deaf-man arguments.  If you think you can 'prove' that they make a difference, go to the sound science forum and post there, see what happens.


----------



## Tony1110

Cable debates kick off once every five pages or so on pretty much every thread. I like cables, but there's no way I'd pay the money Nordost are asking for their Heimdall headphone cable.


----------



## plakat

@Frank I I don't doubt that the review was honest. Tyll once mentioned he does no negative reviews but decides to keep quiet in cases where he does not like a product but does not see it as some kind of "threat to the average consumer". After all many things are a matter of taste to a certain degree, so what does not please me may well be what another person is actually looking for.
  
 It may be easier to write a scathing review of something and have folks enjoy their schadenfreude than to keep something honestly positive. It may be a good idea to disclose any ties (i.e. if a manufacturer/distributor is a site sponsor or something, how the gear came to review etc.) and be positively critical in those cases also. But I don't think anything of this kind was the problem, I just did not get into the review as such (maybe I could not relate to the selection of music or ... I don't know). Not because I considered it overly positive -- I do like my V281 very much, so I think others might as well.
  
 I think we all agree that the digital inputs are OK (especially given their price) but not the best available and therefore a more potent DAC is obviously a good idea: the amp itself is capable of more.
  
 To me cables are not interesting if a basic quality level is ensured, so instead of mentioning a specific cable the fact that the HD800 was driven balanced would have sufficed for me. I'm more with @Xenophon on that, but I don't care too much as long as cables don't get into the center of a review.
  
 Btw.: a minor glitch regarding the inputs: one set of XLR inputs, one set of RCA inputs, one set of XLR outputs, one set of RCA outputs, all located on the back of the device.
  
 Anyway -- many thanks for your effort, and headphone.guru as a whole. Much appreciated.


----------



## Frank I

plakat said:


> @Frank I I don't doubt that the review was honest. http://headphone.guru/violectric-hpa-v281-balanced-headphone-amp-dac/ may be a good idea to disclose any ties (i.e. if a manufacturer/distributor is a site sponsor or something, how the gear came to review etc.) and be positively critical in those cases also. But I don't think anything of this kind was the problem, I just did not get into the review as such (maybe I could not relate to the selection of music or ... I don't know). Not because I considered it overly positive -- I do like my V281 very much, so I think others might as well.
> 
> I think we all agree that the digital inputs are OK (especially given their price) but not the best available and therefore a more potent DAC is obviously a good idea: the amp itself is capable of more.
> 
> To me cables are not interesting if a basic quality level is ensured, so instead of mentioning a specific cable the fact that the HD800 was driven balanced would have sufficed for me


 
 The review was positive because it was a great amp. I have reviewed items and done reviews in the past that were honest and many considered were negative including the Ibasso DX50 and Audio GD NFB6 in the past. I also had some critical comments regarding the dac in this unit and also on other headphones in past reviews done. That being said we do Honest reviews and sometimes that does include what is not right with certain products. Instead of having readers guess or ask which cable was used with the review it makes sense in mentioning what product was and while you may not make a difference to one reader if not mentioned, another reader may  like to know what balanced cable was used. The cable debate for many is endless and frankly the review was on the amp with the Nordost balancedcable being used on the hd800.Really all subjective with this stuff anyway. Appreciate your comments .


----------



## Drewligarchy

Does anyone have an issue with the Violectric V281 and static electricity? I am having issues - but only with my LCD XC both balanced and unbalanced. The V281 doesn't cause any issues with any of my other headphones, either balanced or unbalanced, just the XC. While it's Winter now, and there is an increase in static electricity, sometime it can get bad enough to trip the v281 relay and shut off the amps output for 5-10 seconds.
  
 Usually it's a minor annoyance but want to ensure I am not in danger of damaging the XC or the v281.


----------



## Frank I

I dont have the V281` here anymore but use the xc with another amp and not noticing any static with the xc. The sometimes has a  static charge.  You may want to shoot Fried an email to ask that question.I would think though it probably an issue with the XC


----------



## Frank I

http://www.head-fi.org/products/violectric-hpa-v281/reviews/12368
  
  
  
 Check out the detailed review I posted in the review section


----------



## Ultrainferno

drewligarchy said:


> Does anyone have an issue with the Violectric V281 and static electricity? I am having issues - but only with my LCD XC both balanced and unbalanced. The V281 doesn't cause any issues with any of my other headphones, either balanced or unbalanced, just the XC. While it's Winter now, and there is an increase in static electricity, sometime it can get bad enough to trip the v281 relay and shut off the amps output for 5-10 seconds.
> 
> Usually it's a minor annoyance but want to ensure I am not in danger of damaging the XC or the v281.


 
  
 It's my most used combination and I haven't noticed anything at all. I would contact Vio if I were you


----------



## mulder01

Dunno how it could even build up a charge if it's earthed - maybe the chassis isn't earthed properly?  Are you using it with a travel adapter without the earth pin maybe?


----------



## Xenophon

mulder01 said:


> Dunno how it could even build up a charge if it's earthed - maybe the chassis isn't earthed properly?  Are you using it with a travel adapter without the earth pin maybe?


 

 Or the ground lift was used to tackle some noise issue (I assume it's basically the same configuration as for the V200, didn't check).  But even then I don't easily see how static electricity could trigger the protection relay.   Anyway, it needs looking into.


----------



## BeyerMonster

drewligarchy said:


> Does anyone have an issue with the Violectric V281 and static electricity? I am having issues - but only with my LCD XC both balanced and unbalanced.


 
 Don't have a V281, but I've been using my XC's quite a bit lately with a Schitt Magni/Modi at work and I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, so I don't think there's any inherent issue with the XC design and static electricity.


----------



## warrenpchi

xenophon said:


> tony1110 said:
> 
> 
> > There's a new V281 review on Headphone Guru if anyone's interested. It's very positive.
> ...


 
  
http://headphone.guru/the-violectric-hpa-v220/
  
 Though, personally, I would classify it as fair rather than negative - but I think you'd agree that I've been critical where I felt it was warranted.


----------



## Tony1110

warrenpchi said:


> http://headphone.guru/the-violectric-hpa-v220/
> 
> Though, personally, I would classify it as fair rather than negative - but I think you'd agree that I've been critical where I felt it was warranted.




That is a fair and balanced review. I took delivery of a single ended cable for my Alpha Prime headphones yesterday and have spent the last few hours comparing the SE and balanced outputs. Quite frankly, there is no comparison. I agree with you that the sound is smaller and more intimate and the 'out of head' sensation you get using the balanced out has pretty much vanished. The treble is indeed significantly rolled off (and you definitely can't say that about the balanced mode). So with these headphones there is only one way to go. The beauty of the V281 however is that it's essentially two amps in one. Ultrainferno said he preferred the SE output with his HE-560 because of the more intimate full-bodied sound you get. I can see others feeling the same about the HD800 l, T1 etc.


----------



## Xenophon

warrenpchi said:


> http://headphone.guru/the-violectric-hpa-v220/
> 
> Though, personally, I would classify it as fair rather than negative - but I think you'd agree that I've been critical where I felt it was warranted.


 

 Warren, just read your review and I have no problem acknowledging that this is what imo a review should read like in terms of information offered, strong/weak points etc.  Congratulations!  I still maintain my viewpoint on the V281 review that was published but I have no problem acknowledging that yes, the one about the V220 was thoughtful, critical and balanced.  It also more or less conforms to my opinion of the V200 that I own:  for me it's a bit too warm and not detailed enough (for my taste even with cans like the HD-800).  I'd like to try one just for kicks with my HE-6 to see what the extra juice does; the sound with the V200 is good but when I hook it up to a speaker amp it becomes clear what a couple extra W can do.
  
 Personally I never had issues with the jumpers (perhaps because I'm part German) and I abhor remotes and have no use for 2 headphone outs but that's a matter of taste.  For the price though I wouldn't get the 220, nor for that matter the V281 I guess (barring a sonic miracle and quicker/more detailed sound signature).  At the price point and if you actually own cans that benefit from the extra power, imo there are other options on the market.


----------



## warrenpchi

> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > http://headphone.guru/the-violectric-hpa-v220/
> ...


 
  
 Thanks guys!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I just wanted to point out that - like any review site - we all have different writing styles, viewpoints, etc.
  


> Originally Posted by *Tony1110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I took delivery of a single ended cable for my Alpha Prime headphones yesterday and have spent the last few hours comparing the SE and balanced outputs. Quite frankly, there is no comparison. I agree with you that the sound is smaller and more intimate and the 'out of head' sensation you get using the balanced out has pretty much vanished. The treble is indeed significantly rolled off (and you definitely can't say that about the balanced mode). So with these headphones there is only one way to go. The beauty of the V281 however is that it's essentially two amps in one. Ultrainferno said he preferred the SE output with his HE-560 because of the more intimate full-bodied sound you get. I can see others feeling the same about the HD800 l, T1 etc.


 
  
 I have yet to hear the V281.  And with all the new gear shown at CES this year, I doubt I'll get to it anytime soon.  But most impressions seem to be favorable so there's that.  If I ever get a chance to try it out, I'll be sure to post impressions.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


> Originally Posted by *Xenophon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It also more or less conforms to my opinion of the V200 that I own:  for me it's a bit too warm and not detailed enough (for my taste even with cans like the HD-800).  I'd like to try one just for kicks with my HE-6 to see what the extra juice does; the sound with the V200 is good but when I hook it up to a speaker amp it becomes clear what a couple extra W can do.


 
  
 Hmm, I don't think you'd be happy with the V220 and HE-6 pairing either.  Likewise, I think you'd enjoy the HE-6 much more with something far more robust.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


> Originally Posted by *Xenophon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Personally I never had issues with the jumpers (perhaps because I'm part German) and I abhor remotes and have no use for 2 headphone outs but that's a matter of taste.  For the price though I wouldn't get the 220, nor for that matter the V281 I guess (barring a sonic miracle and quicker/more detailed sound signature).  At the price point and if you actually own cans that benefit from the extra power, imo there are other options on the market.


 
  
 I didn't think I would have a problem with the jumpers initially.  But once I realized that the procedure involved more than changing switch positions on the fly, I began to get a little annoyed with it... especially after trying every position with every headphone I used for the review, and a few headphones that I didn't mention.  It was just a tiny bit more complicated than I would have preferred.  As for the remote, I didn't think it was necessary, and still don't - though it was fun to use.  Hey, I just thought of something... had I been able to use the remote to change pre-gain on the fly, that would have been AWESOME!
  
 Nonetheless, I agree with you, it's not something I'm inclined to buy at all given its price vs performance ratio.


----------



## PleasantSounds

> I didn't think I would have a problem with the jumpers initially.  But once I realized that the procedure involved more than changing switch positions on the fly, I began to get a little annoyed with it... especially after trying every position with every headphone I used for the review, and a few headphones that I didn't mention.  It was just a tiny bit more complicated than I would have preferred.


 
  
 Actually the procedure described in the manual is just a precaution. You can change the jumpers on the fly and they will work the same as with the amp turned off, volume pot turned to zero. Just be prepared for the jump in volume. You can also have different settings for L and R if that's what you want.


----------



## Ultrainferno

So I come back after a few hundred unread posts and now we suddenly don't like the V281 anymore? What's the deal?


----------



## mulder01

...I like it


----------



## plakat

Me too. Its perfect for some of my headphones (Abyss, T1, K812), fine with most. I only did not like the combination with the TH900...
 Love that massive volume knob. One reason not to use the remote  In fact I only got the relay-based volume option because I like the concept.


----------



## warrenpchi

pleasantsounds said:


> > I didn't think I would have a problem with the jumpers initially.  But once I realized that the procedure involved more than changing switch positions on the fly, I began to get a little annoyed with it... especially after trying every position with every headphone I used for the review, and a few headphones that I didn't mention.  It was just a tiny bit more complicated than I would have preferred.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL, I figured that might have been the case (largely based upon the supposition that no engineer worth his salt would trust an end user to actually read and follow the manual)... but I still didn't want to take the chance of somehow damaging a review unit.


----------



## plakat

warrenpchi said:


> LOL, I figured that might have been the case (largely based upon the supposition that no engineer worth his salt would trust an end user to actually read and follow the manual)... but I still didn't want to take the chance of somehow damaging a review unit.


 

 I think its really just a precaution to protect the users headphones and ears: going from 0 to +12dB might well damage a driver when volume is not turned down or even impair hearing when the headphone is in place.
  
 Of course you're right... those reading the manual will take precautions anyway while the others will not read the manual


----------



## mulder01

So is there any difference between having the pre gain on +0 and the gain (volume knob) at +26 OR having the pre gain on +6 and the volume knob on +20?  I mean, to me it doesn't seem like there would be any difference, but I have heard some people say that certain amp/can combinations sound better with different levels of pre gain.  Dunno if it's a placebo or not.  I mean, I realise that some cans need more power, but does it matter how much of that gain comes from the pre gain and how much from the volume knob?


----------



## Xenophon

mulder01 said:


> So is there any difference between having the pre gain on +0 and the gain (volume knob) at +26 OR having the pre gain on +6 and the volume knob on +20?  I mean, to me it doesn't seem like there would be any difference, but I have heard some people say that certain amp/can combinations sound better with different levels of pre gain.  Dunno if it's a placebo or not.  I mean, I realise that some cans need more power, but does it matter how much of that gain comes from the pre gain and how much from the volume knob?


 

 I'll go out on a limb here because I think in the end it largely depends on the way the volume pot is implemented in the circuit and the overall design quality (neither of which are afaik an issue with the Vio amps).  First of all, working with the pre-gain gives you more usable range and fine-tuning possibilities with the volume pot and sensitive cans; for harder cans it boosts the input signal and allows you to achieve sufficient volume.  If you use a source that outputs other than redbook levels it also comes in handy.  
  
 Theoretically it should/could also be less 'noisy' to use pre-gain than working with the volume.  I don't know if/to what extent there is an *audible* difference regarding the sound, provided the SPL level at the phones reached one way or another is equal, given all the factors involved I don't think really demonstrating this one way or another would be easy without extensive blind testing.


----------



## Tony1110

ultrainferno said:


> So I come back after a few hundred unread posts and now we suddenly don't like the V281 anymore? What's the deal?




A V220 review that wasn't wholly complimentary. I have to say that the Alpha Prime using the SE output did sound a tad...vaginal. The balanced output is a completely different kettle of fish as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## daerron

tony1110 said:


> A V220 review that wasn't wholly complimentary. I have to say that the Alpha Prime using the SE output did sound a tad...vaginal. The balanced output is a completely different kettle of fish as far as I'm concerned.


 
  
 Rofl! You definitely did read the review, certainly made me scratch the V220 entirely.


----------



## Tony1110

daerron said:


> Rofl! You definitely did read the review, certainly made me scratch the V220 entirely.




In all honesty it sounds quite good. Just not good enough to justify the price tag without the balanced option which is going to be the draw for most people.


----------



## warrenpchi

mulder01 said:


> So is there any difference between having the pre gain on +0 and the gain (volume knob) at +26 OR having the pre gain on +6 and the volume knob on +20?


 
  
 Just to satisfy my curiosity... how might we go about discerning what is +26dB versus +20dB for the volume knob?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


xenophon said:


> I'll go out on a limb here because I think in the end it largely depends on the way the volume pot is implemented in the circuit and the overall design quality (neither of which are afaik an issue with the Vio amps).  First of all, working with the pre-gain gives you more usable range and fine-tuning possibilities with the volume pot and sensitive cans; for harder cans it boosts the input signal and allows you to achieve sufficient volume.  If you use a source that outputs other than redbook levels it also comes in handy.
> 
> Theoretically it should/could also be less 'noisy' to use pre-gain than working with the volume.  I don't know if/to what extent there is an *audible* difference regarding the sound, provided the SPL level at the phones reached one way or another is equal, given all the factors involved I don't think really demonstrating this one way or another would be easy without extensive blind testing.


 
  
 Sounds plausible, I'd stretch out on that limb with you.  And for the record, those were simply my subjective observations, nothing more.  So for everyone concerned, please season them with appropriate sodium levels as you see fit.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


daerron said:


> tony1110 said:
> 
> 
> > ultrainferno said:
> ...


 
  
 Lol, with any luck, maybe the term vaginal will catch on around here.


----------



## PleasantSounds

warrenpchi said:


> Lol, with any luck, maybe the term vaginal will catch on around here.


 

 Let's add it to the dictionary!


----------



## Drewligarchy

beyermonster said:


> Don't have a V281, but I've been using my XC's quite a bit lately with a Schitt Magni/Modi at work and I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, so I don't think there's any inherent issue with the XC design and static electricity.


 
  
 What's tough to pin down is whether it is the XC or the V281. I get no static charge when I use the XC with my Woo WA7, and I get no static charge when I use the V281 with any other headphone.


----------



## project86

I enjoyed Warren's review as well. Don't agree with everything he said but I can see the point - V281 makes sense as an upgrade from V200. V220? Not sure about where it falls. I did often wish for more inputs/outputs and a remote when using the V200, but considering the pricing I would probably make the jump to V281 rather than V220. 
  
 As for sonics..... I've often enjoyed the V200 with LCD-2, even the original darker model. HD650 too. So I don't completely agree with Warren's assessment. Which is cool, we all hear differently. I'm curious why he had a hum on the V220 though - my V200, and the SE output on my V281 have both been dead silent for me. I wonder if Warren has a mild ground loop issue or other power related gremlin. Those can cause slight noise and humming on any device and can be very difficult to completely eliminate. I will say that the balanced V281 output does have an ever present noise with IEMs because it has double the amps in play.
  
  
  
 Quote:


drewligarchy said:


> What's tough to pin down is whether it is the XC or the V281. I get no static charge when I use the XC with my Woo WA7, and I get no static charge when I use the V281 with any other headphone.


 
  
 Well that's weird. Must be some tolerance issue between the headphone jack on the V281 and the plug of the XC.... conditions just right on each one that they don't line up quite right. I'd try an extension plug to see what happens.


----------



## PleasantSounds

drewligarchy said:


> What's tough to pin down is whether it is the XC or the V281. I get no static charge when I use the XC with my Woo WA7, and I get no static charge when I use the V281 with any other headphone.


 
  
 Are you by any chance using an aftermarket cable? If so, what brand and moel?


----------



## Drewligarchy

pleasantsounds said:


> Are you by any chance using an aftermarket cable? If so, what brand and moel?




This was happening on both the stock balanced and unbalanced Audeze cable. I bought a Moon Audio Balanced Black Dragon, got it today, and it seems to reduce the issue but still there.

I don't get it when seated, but when I stand up and walk across the carpet, to shut off the amp whether music is playing or not (but amp is on). Thing that's weird is I often wear XC in bed with the Woo on my nightstand, and nothing, and there is so much more potential for static there - but it's fine. It's winter, so obviously with heaters going adds to the dryness of the air, which had made matters worse recently. I've used the XC with a portable DAP and other amps but no problem.

My HD 800 balanced into the v281 is fine. Thought it might have to do with the low ohms and High sensitivity of the XC in comparison to the 800, and that there is more metal on the XC than the 800. Also fine with my RS2, with is low impedance but made of wood.

I'd rather not ship the amp or headphones back, especially if I can't tell which one is to blame! Project86, would trying a different cable as I did essentially be the same as adding an extension cable from a troubleshooting standpoint.

It also sounds so great, I'd hate to give this pairing up


----------



## Drewligarchy

Listening to XC through black dragon to the v281 via Chord Hugo - Star Trek: Into the Darkness score in 96/24. Sounds fantastic! Maybe I could get a plane ticket for Fried to come and take a look so I don't have to be without it.


----------



## mulder01

warrenpchi said:


> Just to satisfy my curiosity... how might we go about discerning what is +26dB versus +20dB for the volume knob?


 
  
 You don't - I'm just picking figures out of the air.  Let me say it like this -
  
 If you normally listen to the volume around 12:00 on zero gain, or normally around say 10:00 on +6 gain, then the pre gain has pre added 2 'hours' worth of volume to the volume pot.  I prefer to have the pre gain down so I get more subtle increments out of the volume knob, but I noticed some people like to have their gain up and volume knob down around, say 9:00.  Just wondered if there was any benefit to having a higher percentage of your power coming from pre gain rather than from the volume knob.  Seems silly to me to have 300 odd degrees worth of rotation in your volume knob and have your minimum and maximum points only 80 degrees apart because each small movement would give a large increase of volume.  But I assumed there was a reason people do it.  Just wondering what it was.
  
 My thoughts were along the lines of what Xenophon said, but yeah, just asking.


----------



## PleasantSounds

drewligarchy said:


> Listening to XC through black dragon to the v281 via Chord Hugo - Star Trek: Into the Darkness score in 96/24. Sounds fantastic! Maybe I could get a plane ticket for Fried to come and take a look so I don't have to be without it.


 
  
This will be cheaper and may prove more effective.


----------



## Tony1110

project86 said:


> Well that's weird. Must be some tolerance issue between the headphone jack on the V281 and the plug of the XC.... conditions just right on each one that they don't line up quite right. I'd try an extension plug to see what happens.




There seems to be a lot of variance in how people hear the amp. I've read that it's too smooth, that it lacks bass, that it's too strident etc... People do indeed hear differently.

Edit: Quoted the wrong bit.


----------



## lime51

I have read with great interest this discussion, also for my situation.
 I own a HD-800 and a Phonitor (first model) with a Bel Canto CD2 and Dac 2.5 as source. I am very happy with the result but there is still something to improve. The overall sound is satisfactory but still with some traces of sibilants or lightening.
 Not sure if it is only a matter of tonal balance but maybe something related to distortion (or power line) because, for example, I noticed that even changing a power chord can reduce sibilants.
 If you really think that Violectric V218 can solve this I can seriously consider a purchase because I mainly love the Hd-800 and I would make the rest of the chain subject to it.
 Do you have any suggestions on this particular situation?  
 Many thanks


----------



## project86

drewligarchy said:


> I'd rather not ship the amp or headphones back, especially if I can't tell which one is to blame! Project86, would trying a different cable as I did essentially be the same as adding an extension cable from a troubleshooting standpoint.
> 
> It also sounds so great, I'd hate to give this pairing up


 
  
  
 If you've already tried multiple cables then my idea won't help beyond that. I'm stumped. Email Fried perhaps?
  
  


mulder01 said:


> You don't - I'm just picking figures out of the air.  Let me say it like this -
> 
> If you normally listen to the volume around 12:00 on zero gain, or normally around say 10:00 on +6 gain, then the pre gain has pre added 2 'hours' worth of volume to the volume pot.  I prefer to have the pre gain down so I get more subtle increments out of the volume knob, but I noticed some people like to have their gain up and volume knob down around, say 9:00.  Just wondered if there was any benefit to having a higher percentage of your power coming from pre gain rather than from the volume knob.  Seems silly to me to have 300 odd degrees worth of rotation in your volume knob and have your minimum and maximum points only 80 degrees apart because each small movement would give a large increase of volume.  But I assumed there was a reason people do it.  Just wondering what it was.
> 
> My thoughts were along the lines of what Xenophon said, but yeah, just asking.


 
  
  
 Seems to me the higher setting on the volume knob helps take the potentiometer out of the equation. For some devices that's a good thing. Violectric uses a nice Alps pot so it may not matter so much.
  
  


lime51 said:


> I have read with great interest this discussion, also for my situation.
> I own a HD-800 and a Phonitor (first model) with a Bel Canto CD2 and Dac 2.5 as source. I am very happy with the result but there is still something to improve. The overall sound is satisfactory but still with some traces of sibilants or lightening.
> Not sure if it is only a matter of tonal balance but maybe something related to distortion (or power line) because, for example, I noticed that even changing a power chord can reduce sibilants.
> If you really think that Violectric V218 can solve this I can seriously consider a purchase because I mainly love the Hd-800 and I would make the rest of the chain subject to it.
> ...


 

  
 Could be the DAC 2.5 - I've heard some mention of sibilance with other Bel Canto models, though I haven't spent enough time with the 2.5 to confirm or deny. Maybe try the CD2 by itself and see if that changes things.


----------



## plakat

project86 said:


> Seems to me the higher setting on the volume knob helps take the potentiometer out of the equation. For some devices that's a good thing. Violectric uses a nice Alps pot so it may not matter so much.


 
  
 One of the reasons I really like the stepped resistor network...


----------



## zhgutov

Does anyone know what the specified maximum undistorted input level of 21 dBu actually means?
 I have successfully connected V800 DAC via balanced output at 24 dBu to balanced inputs of the V281 with -12 dB pre-gain and unable to hear any distortion.
 Does it mean what if I set 0 dB pre-gain the distortion will come up? Is it safe for V281 to experiment with such levels?


----------



## Xenophon

zhgutov said:


> Does anyone know what the specified maximum undistorted input level of 21 dBu actually means?
> I have successfully connected V800 DAC via balanced output at 24 dBu to balanced inputs of the V281 with -12 dB pre-gain and unable to hear any distortion.
> Does it mean what if I set 0 dB pre-gain the distortion will come up? Is it safe for V281 to experiment with such levels?


 

 It means that the maximum signal it will accept is equivalent to 8.69 Vrms coming in.  Standard redbook output is 2 Vrms for 0 dBFS....  The problem is that the standard is really no standard.  Some sources go way below, some are higher (such as broadcasting standard in Germany).  Most gear is designed to handle up to 5 Vrms before things are either limited or go pear-shaped on the receiving end.  I don't see what you're trying to do here by combining such a high output only to dial it back down with regain on the input side.  Imo, unless you have a very good reason to fiddle with the pregain settings (see above) it's better to leave them alone.


----------



## zhgutov

xenophon said:


> It means that the maximum signal it will accept is equivalent to 8.69 Vrms coming in.  Standard redbook output is 2 Vrms for 0 dBFS....  The problem is that the standard is really no standard.  Some sources go way below, some are higher (such as broadcasting standard in Germany).  Most gear is designed to handle up to 5 Vrms before things are either limited or go pear-shaped on the receiving end.  I don't see what you're trying to do here by combining such a high output only to dial it back down with regain on the input side.  Imo, unless you have a very good reason to fiddle with the pregain settings (see above) it's better to leave them alone.


 
  
 My reason to set output to 24 dBu is to transfer the signal with the maximum level possible from DAC to amplifier.
 As I can hear there is no output signal degradation changing output level from 15 dBu to 24 dBu.
 As the result of this change I can notice more defined and clear sound with better transients, clarity and speed.
 I want to understand it, because this was not expected, and looks like the system issue.
 May interconnection cable (XLR Supra EFF-IXLR, 1m) be the cause of this difference?
  
 UPDATE:
 I've tried 24 dBu output with 0 dB gain and this works well too.
 I think that's because the connection is balanced and the amplifiers work independently.
 As the result the level for each amplifier is 6 dB less, which is actually 18 dBu.
 This looks correctly because in other case 15 dBu output with +12 dB pre-gain should not work at all.
 Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## maro73

Hello Folks
 I am really 100% satisfied with the V281
 I started some wrtings here :
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/748651/sennheiser-hd-800-and-headphone-amplifiers-dacs-chord-eximus-violectric-v281-dddac-point-of-view
  
 With some more and more listening , I think that the balanced input of the V281 fed by the balanced output of the Eximus yields to some absolute low ground floor .. no noise at all
 Besides , upper mid range and voices are more realistic than ever , to the point that the Eximus is relegating the Chord Hugo to only portable use
 But again , the only headphone used is the Sennheiser HD800 , and most of are acquainted of its woes
 Cheers


----------



## korzena

Would you recommend V281 for LCD-2/LCD-X to someone who thought V200/LCD-2 pairing wasn't too good due to excessive warmth and too little air/space?


----------



## Ultrainferno

korzena said:


> Would you recommend V281 for LCD-2/LCD-X to someone who thought V200/LCD-2 pairing wasn't too good due to excessive warmth and too little air/space?


 
  
 imo: While the balanced out on the V281 is extremely good (I havent used the SE out anymore), I doubt this is the amp for you. To me the V281 is well, more balanced, has a bigger sound stage and more air. All that with a detailed and smooth delivery, but the sound is still on the warmer side. So it's "half half" (based on LCD-2 and LCD-XC)
  
 Can't you try it out first?


----------



## korzena

ultrainferno said:


> imo: While the balanced out on the V281 is extremely good (I havent used the SE out anymore), I doubt this is the amp for you. To me the V281 is well, more balanced, has a bigger sound stage and more air. All that with a detailed and smooth delivery, but the sound is still on the warmer side. So it's "half half" (based on LCD-2 and LCD-XC)
> 
> Can't you try it out first?


 
 Thank you for your helpful answer!
  
I would love to try out V281 and decide for myself, but it is not easy in my country. Anyway, the things you said about V281 agree with my general impression of this amp (which I have derived from reading many posts and reviews)
  
 This is why I am considering two other amps for the LCD-X:
- Bryston BHA-1 (which gets lots of praise in general and also for this specific pairing; although I     
  sometimes read BHA-1 might be a little bit bright or analytically sounding)
- Auralic Taurus MKII (which is also praised with lcd-x)
  
I wonder how these two amps compare to V281. I'd appreciate any opinions as I probably won't have a chance to audition any of them before my purchase)


----------



## saxelrod92

korzena said:


> Thank you for your helpful answer!
> 
> I would love to try out V281 and decide for myself, but it is not easy in my country. Anyway, the things you said about V281 agree with my general impression of this amp (which I have derived from reading many posts and reviews)
> 
> ...


 

 I dont have any experience with those other amps, but I have tried the V281 with the top under 2000 dollar flagships, a few of them at least, and I wouldn't say that it has a tilt to warm, it's more like an organic tone than a warm tone. I used to have an lcd-2 pre-fazor and it was more than good sounding out of it. I've also used it with the hd800 and it doesnt do much to change the slight brightness and analytical nature of that headphone. So also take into consideration that it is very balanced, and doesn't do much to change the headphone, which is also why i like it so much, you just get a solid example of what you're headphones sound like. Unless you specifically want something on the brighter/analytical side for your amp, versus a warmer more tubey sound. The V281 falls right in between, without being boring.


----------



## PleasantSounds

korzena said:


> [..]
> 
> This is why I am considering two other amps for the LCD-X:
> - Bryston BHA-1 (which gets lots of praise in general and also for this specific pairing; although I
> ...


 
  
 If HD800 performance can be any indication, Taurus sounds very similar to the V281. The only difference I noticed was a slight tendency towards harshness in mids in Taurus, when compared to the V281. Other than that I wouldn't be able to tell them apart. BHA-1 in comparisin was brighter, but I wouldn't call it analytical. Not sure how these observations will translate to LCD-X...
  
 All 3 of them were quite transparent to the DAC changes, so that may be another avenue of fine-tuning the sound.


----------



## Viper2005

korzena said:


> Thank you for your helpful answer!
> 
> I would love to try out V281 and decide for myself, but it is not easy in my country. Anyway, the things you said about V281 agree with my general impression of this amp (which I have derived from reading many posts and reviews)
> 
> ...


 
 I would also strongly consider the Schiit Ragnarok.  I use it with the LCDX and its a nice pairing.  (I also own the V281, and its true, the 281 is still a bit on the warm side, but the highs are another issue entirely).  The Rag treble is not bright and the amp is not what I would consider warm, but rather, smooth.


----------



## ellevoid

korzena said:


> Thank you for your helpful answer!
> 
> I would love to try out V281 and decide for myself, but it is not easy in my country. Anyway, the things you said about V281 agree with my general impression of this amp (which I have derived from reading many posts and reviews)
> 
> ...


 
  
 I tried all 3 amps with HD800 and HE6 and I bought Taurus MK2 instead of Bryston.

 Later on I sold Taurus and bought V281 because it has more power especially in balanced mode.


----------



## korzena

ellevoid said:


> I tried all 3 amps with HD800 and HE6 and I bought Taurus MK2 instead of Bryston.
> 
> Later on I sold Taurus and bought V281 because it has more power especially in balanced mode.


 
  
I suppose V281 may also synergize better with the headphones you have (HD-800, HE-6) as it gives them some warmth.
  
I am looking for an amp for LCD-X so my case might be different.
  
 Why did you choose Taurus over Bryston?
 And what is the biggest difference in sound between Taurus and V281?


----------



## gonzfi

Could anyone offer an opinion on V281 vs HA-1 to drive HE-500 and TH-900? I'm torn between the 2 but cannot try them prior to purchasing....


----------



## Ultrainferno

gonzfi said:


> Could anyone offer an opinion on V281 vs HA-1 to drive HE-500 and TH-900? I'm torn between the 2 but cannot try them prior to purchasing....


 
  
 then buy them both! I kid I kid. Can't help, sorry


----------



## gonzfi

I can't really afford one of them!


----------



## Zkadoush

korzena said:


> I suppose V281 may also synergize better with the headphones you have (HD-800, HE-6) as it gives them some warmth.
> 
> I am looking for an amp for LCD-X so my case might be different.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Korzena,
  
 I very much recognize myself in your dilemma, it was pretty much the one I had a couple of months ago, before I purchased my V281. I fortunately had the chance to listen to the V281, the Taurus and the Bryston at the same place I bought my V281 and LCD-Xs (at Computer Lounge in Auckland NZ). It's not easy to put your finger on the specific differences between the Taurus and the V281 without unpacking quite a portion of your music collection; both are excellent Amps and certainly qualify as endgame Amps if you're out to get the best for your LCD-Xs.

 Nevertheless, and with the exception of the BHA-1, the Taurus and the V281 are serious overkill if you're only wanting an Amp to drive your LCD-Xs. The LCD-Xs are extremely efficient and easy to drive; I can drive to more than desirable levels from my iPhone and and Macbook, but of course not with the quality of a dedicated Amp, such as the V281, the Taurus, the BHA-1 or my good old V100.

 When it comes to driving the LCD-Xs, the BHA-1 has more than enough juice and offers balanced output as well, something the V281 and Taurus will also provide but at a higher cost. The V281 and the Taurus are excellent Amps and certainly among the 10 most capable and versatile out there, but in my humble opinion, a bit too expensive to drive a pair of LCD-Xs. If I were you, I'd seriously consider the BHA-1 for functionality, build quality and the pedigree - Bryston makes really excellent gear.

 If you want the very best performance out there, also consider the V100, the V181 (also with balanced output) and the V200. These last three Amps have analogue specs that put many DAC's digital performance to shame. and they are among very few Amps that will deliver the the full digital performance of your D/A converter to your headphones, and thus fully render High-Resolution audio (129 dB SNR, -109 dB THD and a frequency response of 0-55kHz). The Taurus doesn't really get there (as independent tests have shown), and neither does the Bryston.

 If I only had my LCD-Xs, I would be more than happy with my V100 (or a V181 or V200), but if you have the money to buy the Taurus, the V281 or the BHA-1, there's nothing stopping you. With the V281 you'll be more than covered to drive absolutely any headphones (except electrostatic), past, present or future.

 My impressions with the three Amps is that the Bryston is indeed brighter but not overly so, and I'd say it takes specific recordings to appreciate that. I find the Taurus slightly brighter than the V281, but not by a huge margin. I didn't do a blind test, so I would reserve my opinion here to the status of impressions. When it comes to the soundstage, it is also very subjective, but I find the V281 to be more open and pleasing (but I listen mostly to Classic, Jazz and acoustic music). The LCD-Xs are as neutral as I have heard Planar-Magnetic headphones, and I only considered Planar-Magnetic headphones after the LCD-Xs came out and after Audeze's fazor technology. Before that I always swore by my HD-800s. As far as I'm concerned, the LCD-Xs will do fine and benefit from both the Violectrics or the Taurus, but I would prefer them over the Bryston. I would also prefer the V100, V181 and V200 over the Bryston, for signature, performance and ability to drive virtually any headphone out there, but of course not if you feel they add warmth.

 My guess is that you would be happy with either the V281 or the Taurus, and perhaps with the V100, V181 or V200. You would nevertheless only get the ultimate audio performance from the Violectric Amps. I have unfortunately not been able to audition the Questyle CMA800, but from what reviews and head-fiers say, the Questyle would certainly not add the warmth you dislike from the V200 (although I'd attribute the warmth more to the LCD-2s than the V200, especially if they aren't fazor editions) and it would also be at the top of my list along with the newest Amps from Headamp and the BHA-1. I have also recently found out that Pass Labs is soon releasing a dedicated headamp, and that would certainly be worth considering if waiting isn't an issue.

 For headphones as easy to drive as a pair of LCD-Xs, I would also definitely not exclude a Benchmark DAC 2 DX or an Anedio D2, which both also feature some of the very best headamps out there, yet not with the same output power and voltage, nor with balanced outputs. They are also at the same time state of the art D/A converters and for a fantastic price.

 My idea is not to confuse you by adding more components to your list, but to put your future purchase into perspective considering the real demands that the LCD-Xs pose. They can certainly benefit from Amps as competent as the Taurus and the V281, but they don't by very far need that kind of output power or voltage, and can be easily driven by smaller yet equally well performing Amps and DAC/Amps.

 Personally, if I had no intention of buying headphones that demand more from your Amp in the future, I would go for a Benchmark DAC 2 DX, or if saving almost $800 is a good thing, for the Anedio D2. You would be getting a state of the art D/A converter and a state of the art Amp in one package - when it comes to driving a pair of LCD-Xs and anything else with exceptions like a HE-6 or a K1000. If it came down to the very best performance out there from a dedicated Amp regardless of money, I'd go for the V100, V181 or V200, but that of course means spending some more on a DAC, in which case the two DACs above mentioned would certainly be on my shortlist.

 Again, if money is no issue, you can't go wrong with the V281 or Taurus, and especially if you want to get more demanding headphones in the future. If that's not the case, go for a DAC/Amp solution like the Benchmark or the Anedio, or a separate DAC and Amp, like BHA-1, the CMA800 or the V100/V181/V200 with an Anedio D2 or Benchmark DAC 2L (without headamp).

 Hope to have helped a little.

 Cheers!


----------



## korzena

viper2005 said:


> I would also strongly consider the Schiit Ragnarok.  I use it with the LCDX and its a nice pairing.  (I also own the V281, and its true, the 281 is still a bit on the warm side, but the highs are another issue entirely).  The Rag treble is not bright and the amp is not what I would consider warm, but rather, smooth.




What do you mean by smooth highs in ragnarok? Are they not as extended as in violectric?

What kind of the highs did you mean talking about vio?

I wonder about differences in soundstage between the two, too. Would you be able to compare them?


----------



## korzena

Hi zkadoush!
Thank you for your long post which i find very helpful and which made me thinking.

I will go through it again and see if i still have any questions


----------



## ellevoid

For me Taurus is kind of smoother but BHA-1 is a very good amp as well my friend use it to drive his AKG K1000.
  
 Currently I sold both HD800 and HE6 and using V281 with LCD-3 Fazor. This combo sound amazingly good, highly recommended. 
  
 In my opinion both Taurus and V281 are very neutral and not actually warm sounding. They didn't make my HD800 or HE6 sound warm or less bright like other tube amp or some solid-state amp like HDVD800.


----------



## saxelrod92

ellevoid said:


> For me Taurus is kind of smoother but BHA-1 is a very good amp as well my friend use it to drive his AKG K1000.
> 
> Currently I sold both HD800 and HE6 and using V281 with LCD-3 Fazor. This combo sound amazing good highly recommended.
> 
> In my opinion both Taurus and V281 are very neutral and not actually warm sounding. They didn't make my HD800 or HE6 sound warm or less bright like other tube amp or some solid-state amp like HDVD800.


 

 Yea same experience here, when I tried out the hd800 for two weeks at home the V281 didnt exactly do anything to make the hd800 seem less bright than you would expect it to be. I would say it's more like the V281 is definitely not walking close to that line between neutral and bright, it keeps its distance from that line, well into the neutral territory, and you can tell that you aren't going be crossing that line ever, and it also is the same with the line between neutral and warm/tubey. Combine that with a smooth, very clean, very rock solid sound, and thats the V281 I feel.


----------



## gipsy

If you contact Violectric they may be willing to send you V281 to try before buy...give it try and then decide. Only thing , you have to send them the money and than you got it back if you decide to send the unit back.
 Another thing to consider is to take DAC with swappable opamps like ASUS Essence One or Conductor SL and than suit the sound by changing opamps to your liking.
 I think Asus is to that task...it has separate volume control and balanced output and you can play with opamps on every stage of circuit and even send week signal to Bryston if you plan to use it with IEM-s.
  
 Just idea!
  
 Gipsy


----------



## gipsy

Another thing, as owner of LCD-X I am in same position as you are at the moment;
 I am looking to buy top end Amp for top end headphones and will do it as soon as I decide where to go and collect the money, but at the moment I did try them with:
  
 Fiio X5---------------sounding perfect right out of box, loud enough even with gain on LOW, beautiful sound, portable, big fun.
  
 Asus Essence One original opamps---------sound nice, warm, beautiful heavy bass, can listen as long as my neck can support weight!
  
 Asus Essence One Muses 1 and 2 combo I/V filter...tight, strong precise bass, light blue highs very precise. Can listen for 2 hours in row.
  
 Meier Corda Mk2 from 2003, small amp fed from analog out from Asus, powerful enough, beautiful sound, same as ASUS amp, just little bit more accent on mids, little narrower stage, but not sure if it will be able to distinguish between two on blind. All that without Meier Cross feed.
  
 So I am really having the fun with this 2 cheap dac/amp (Asus got new for 260€, Meier Corda for 100) and I know there is no chance on earth that spending another 1500-2000€ on better/stronger amp will bring any more fun or biger smile on my face while listening my favorite music but real pleasure is in process of reading reviews, imagining those shiny or matte metal boxes on my desktop and slight feeling of guilt all along the process.
  
 After reading a ton of opinions/reviews my logic say to me: buy either Violectic or Bryston, technically superb amps with excellent factory support (5 and 20 years warranty) and one day I should be able to sell it with minimum loss.
  
 My 2 cents
 Gipsy


----------



## plakat

zkadoush said:


> For headphones as easy to drive as a pair of LCD-Xs, I would also definitely not exclude a Benchmark DAC 2 DX or an Anedio D2, which both also feature some of the very best headamps out there, yet not with the same output power and voltage, nor with balanced outputs. They are also at the same time state of the art D/A converters and for a fantastic price.


 
  
 I can only second the suggestion of a Benchmark DAC2. I love the DAC and I think its headphone amp is one of the most overlooked features... While I would maybe not pair it with really bright headphones I use it frequently with the K812, K7XX, Custom Studio etc. Setting the internal output damping to 0dB gives me enough juice to even drive the Abyss to levels I'm not comfortable with.


----------



## roskodan

pleasantsounds said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, with any luck, maybe the term vaginal will catch on around here.
> ...


 
  
 hmmmm... i doubt so... http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141014-monster-leech-swallows-giant-worm


----------



## gipsy

Trigger pulled, HPA V281, standard version, should be in Croatia mid next week.
 Will try to make some unboxing photos with scope of delivery as I could not find any anywhere!
  
 Regards


----------



## plakat

Congratulation @gipsy -- but don't expect too much with regard to packaging... Lake People keep that to a functional level


----------



## gipsy

What is included?? Power cord and amp I suppose?


----------



## plakat

I think the basic package is amp+cord, yes. A printed manual is also included, as well as a tool to tighten the screw of the volume control knob plus an explanation that it might in some cases get loose when shipped via air transport due to temperature.
 Obviously the variants with a remote include the remote control as well as its manual (its a generic remote with unfortunately many unused buttons).


----------



## project86

Let's not forget the rather nice looking USB cable that comes bundled if you buy the USB DAC add-on. Not that it applies to you, but still.
  
 I do think Lake People does a better job than most as far as their packaging materials. I get a lot of stuff coming in each week - most is packed decently well, some is inadequate, and some is really good. Lake People stuff is always the latter.


----------



## gipsy

Remote was tempting but I could not justify 200 extra for remote, where I am anyway tied with headphone cable few feet from amp.
  
 Loose bolts due the differential thermal expansion is unlikely in this case..
 If there was temperature rise it will be more likely than with temp drop..all that in case where bolt inside aluminum knob is steel and pot shaft is aluminum.
  
 Can't wait to get it here!!
  
 Regards


----------



## plakat

project86 said:


> Let's not forget the rather nice looking USB cable that comes bundled if you buy the USB DAC add-on. Not that it applies to you, but still.
> 
> I do think Lake People does a better job than most as far as their packaging materials. I get a lot of stuff coming in each week - most is packed decently well, some is inadequate, and some is really good. Lake People stuff is always the latter.


 
  
 Thats right. Actually I use that USB cable with my DAC2 
 The packaging is functional and well done, but nothing fancy. Which is fine with me, but it was not worth taking photos while unpacking.
  


gipsy said:


> Remote was tempting but I could not justify 200 extra for remote, where I am anyway tied with headphone cable few feet from amp.
> 
> Loose bolts due the differential thermal expansion is unlikely in this case..
> If there was temperature rise it will be more likely than with temp drop..all that in case where bolt inside aluminum knob is steel and pot shaft is aluminum.
> ...


 
  
 I don't use the remote either. I just got the relay-based volume control because I love the concept... I don't use the V281 as a preamp, therefore its always within reach.
  
 They mentioned that said problems with pot knobs becoming loose is on long haul air freight which can get quite cold while in transit. Don't think this applies within EU.
  
 Hope its with you soon. The wait while in transit is always killing me... on the other hand I can take my time contemplating wether to buy something. But once decided it has to get to me fast 
  
 Which headphones are you going to drive with the V281? With which source?


----------



## gipsy

Hi Plakat, hi All
  
 My V281 has left warehouse today....it will spend weekend somewhere with UPS and should be with me mid next week.
 With it, in same package, will be lot of Switchcraft and Neutrik connectors and some quad star cable to play with DIY cables
  
 As I am experienced, read old, gadget lower, so, I bought Tannoy Reveal 402 to replace my old crappy yogurt can like computer speaker to have busy weekend...
 Now I am rearranging cables around desktop....Tannoy connected to balanced out on my ASUS E1 with bunch of MUSES01 and 02 in it.
 When Fried's little power-plant comes, it will get the signal from balanced OUT on ASUS E1 and Tannoy will get it from balanced out on V281.
  
 For volume control on Tannoy I got bundled controller with Tannoy. 
 It will be connected between V281 bal out and Tannoy bal in.
 Short first impression with Tannoy...too much bass...very nice, warm mids and higs. I have even dump the bass ports to lower basses.
 Very good monitors, nice sound, not up to Sonus Faber Concertino, my main stereo rig, but close enough for everyday listening.
  
 Now, for headphones, I have 4 to play with.
  
 My more than 10 years old AKG 240 Studio
 Old good,...... super good, K702.bass mode done.(will try to re-cable it for balanced use at some point in next 2-3 weeks
 Beyer T51P, my outdoor cans, hard to belive, but very close pair to my last and best headphones...
 LCD-X, 1 month old, which are main reason I ordered this mighty amp.
  
 Source is my super silent, almost passively cooled computer with de-lided processor for better thermal transfer  and Foobar.
 Source for testing CD-s is  Marantz 4200.
 Fiio X5 for test is ready as well.
  
 So far, testing LCD-X with Asus E1 and Meier Corda, they shine with both amps so good that I can not belive anything can make them shine even more.
 Will see. Will hear actually. 
  
 As for Mr. Fried Reim I can say only superlatives. He did answer all my questions and fast!!
  
 I can point one, very important fact, where he said that this amp, Violectric V281, is covered with 5 years warranty transferable to following user!!
  
 This is very logical, but  nowadays very gentleman move as you will hardly find any company to offer transferable warranty in electronic business.
  
 Hat down Fried.
  
  
  
 Regards
  
 Gipsy


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have a problem and I hope you can help:
  
 I'm using the XLR IN and XLR out to my Tube amp. However I only get very little and very distorted sound on my headphone amp.
 The internal amp on the V281 is doing just fine, but it seems the Line out just isn't working.
  
 What am I doing wrong here?


----------



## plakat

ultrainferno said:


> I have a problem and I hope you can help:
> 
> I'm using the XLR IN and XLR out to my Tube amp. However I only get very little and very distorted sound on my headphone amp.
> The internal amp on the V281 is doing just fine, but it seems the Line out just isn't working.
> ...


 

 Just to clarify: did you set XLR out to line-out level? Per default its configured to follow the volume control. The manual has instructions on reconfiguring that.
  
 Do you have any other equipment to check the XLR out? active speakers etc (don't set XLR to line-out in that case).
 Is that both channels? If not: Are your XLR cables OK?
 Did you try the RCA out?


----------



## Ultrainferno

plakat said:


> Just to clarify: did you set XLR out to line-out level? Per default its configured to follow the volume control. The manual has instructions on reconfiguring that.
> 
> Do you have any other equipment to check the XLR out? active speakers etc (don't set XLR to line-out in that case).
> Is that both channels? If not: Are your XLR cables OK?
> Did you try the RCA out?


 
  
 I did try XLR and RCA. I also tried both out settings (fixed volume and variable)
 I connected several amps to it, I don't have any speakers I can try though. Yes both channels. Yes I tried other cables
  
 So yeah, I'm pretty clueless for now.


----------



## plakat

ultrainferno said:


> I did try XLR and RCA. I also tried both out settings (fixed volume and variable)
> I connected several amps to it, I don't have any speakers I can try though. Yes both channels. Yes I tried other cables
> 
> So yeah, I'm pretty clueless for now.


 
  
 If the effect is present on both settings and both outputs with different amps... that sounds like the output section is not working correctly. I'd contact Lake People and ask what to do.
  
 Just to be sure: the source is fine? I.e. you hear the signal as intended on the headphone out on the V281? It does sound OK connecting your source directly to any of the other amps?


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's correct. Source is working fine and the SE and balanced out on the front are working too.
 I have emailed Fried, I tried calling him but they're probably not open on Saturdays


----------



## plakat

Yes, almost certainly closed on weekends... they are a manufacturer, not a shop, so I guess they'll answer your mail on Monday.
  
 Sorry to hear that... in case the output board is defective they might be able to send you the board to install yourself, sparing you the roundtrip of the whole amp.


----------



## gipsy

ultrainferno said:


> I have a problem and I hope you can help:
> 
> I'm using the XLR IN and XLR out to my Tube amp. However I only get very little and very distorted sound on my headphone amp.
> The internal amp on the V281 is doing just fine, but it seems the Line out just isn't working.
> ...


 
  
 Just some idea from manual;
  
 Are you using unbalanced and balanced outputs
 simultaneously??
 Do you use balanced-to-unbalanced adapter or vice versa?? Pin out should be checked with multimeter...


----------



## Ultrainferno

I am not mixing them, right now I was trying RCA but nothing. I opened it up but everything seems to be connected ok, that's all I, as tech amateur, can check. I'll just wait and see wat Fried says on monday. thanks!


----------



## gipsy

ultrainferno said:


> I am not mixing them, right now I was trying RCA but nothing. I opened it up but everything seems to be connected ok, that's all I, as tech amateur, can check. I'll just wait and see wat Fried says on monday. thanks!


 

 How do you like the amp/sound so far anyway??


----------



## roskodan

ultrainferno said:


> I am not mixing them, right now I was trying RCA but nothing. I opened it up but everything seems to be connected ok, that's all I, as tech amateur, can check. I'll just wait and see wat Fried says on monday. thanks!


 

 if you did not activate the line outputs, you may be hearing the crosstalk (low and distorted)
  
 MANUAL: http://www.lake-people.de/violectric-manuals.html?file=tl_files/Standard_Theme/downloads/Manuals/V281-E%20Manual%202014.pdf


----------



## Ultrainferno

gipsy said:


> How do you like the amp/sound so far anyway??


 
  
 The balanced out is where the money is, the SE out is hardly if any different from my V200. But yes, the balanced out is very good with all my orthos.
  
 And yes, I did activate the line out


----------



## roskodan

ultrainferno said:


> gipsy said:
> 
> 
> > How do you like the amp/sound so far anyway??
> ...


 

 hehe, one never knows...
  
 check
*PRE-POST FADER or FIXED-VARIABLE *and* Switching between “Pre“ and “Post“ *sections
  
 AND you can try a system reset :
  


> *FACTORY RESET *
> of all software based settings can be done by pushing the “XLR” button during powering up.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Tried all that and did a reset twice. Thanks for trying to help though


----------



## project86

Sounds like everything you could try, has already been tried.
  
 The only other thing I sometimes do is sleep on it and start fresh the next day, going over everything you've already done with fresh eyes. Sometimes I discover that what I thought I did.... I didn't do properly. Happens every once in a while. 
  
 Most likely though you have some loose connection inside, or other defect. Hopefully Fried and crew can troubleshoot it and get you going quickly and easily.


----------



## sandab

mulder01 said:


> does it matter how much of that gain comes from the pre gain and how much from the volume knob?


 
 The gain setting almost certainly adjusts the feedback ratio.  This affects distortion.  From this perspective, less closed-loop gain (= more feedback) is better.
 The volume knob attenuates the input signal, typically outside the closed loop.  Less attenuation is generally better, but this also lowers the input impedance.  (This is true even if it's part of the IPS LTP.)    In some cases, lack of attenuation can cause audible "flattening" due to the source output not being able to drive the amp input.  (Less likely if it's part of the LTP.)
  
 So, reduce the gain until you run out of volume control, or there is an audible loss of dynamics and texture, or an audible shift in frequency response (like muffled highs).


----------



## Fred Hi-Res

Having used the V281 for about a week I can attest to that this amp is a true champion for all music genres that I listen to. 
  
 The amp with all its muscle drives the bass in a very tight and controlled way, it doesn't increase the bass, but rather enhance it. Although, given my limited experience with other amps I do feel that this amp produce the most impactful bass of any amp I've yet listened to.
  
 Mids are super lush and smooth, and at the same time extremely detailed. This is probably the greatest characteristic of this amp. The level of details it produce is astounding. I never really thought that an amp could reveal so many new details in the music, I always thought that this was reserved for the source choice and quality of the recording. Today I listened to one of my favourite recordings, the Gardiner's recording of Vespro della beata vergine, and the layering and separation of the voices in the choir was mesmerising. Of course this has also to do with the HD700 that I used, which by the way are truly excellent HPs for classical music, never heard a better HP for this genre.
  
 Treble is well extended and not bright. It's not an overly analytical amp, just very detailed with great dynamics, and when driven fully balanced produce a very nice soundstage.
  
 Thanks Fried for a great amp, looking forward to the V282


----------



## project86

Thanks for your impressions - sound very similar to what I hear. Listening to V281 right now, fed by a "lowly" Parasound Zdac v2 which is in for review, and driving an LCD-3F. Amazing system! Revealing enough to help spot the differences between this DAC and my reference (which costs 10x as much), yet in the end it's still _very _enjoyabl even without a megabuck source.


----------



## gipsy

The Beauty or the Beast??


----------



## Chik0240

project86 said:


> I'll preface this by saying they are both EXCELLENT amps. Nothing either of them does slightly better is enough to invalidate the other as an excellent choice, and honestly I don't think you can go wrong either way. I hate it when reviewers and forum folks rave about some product, only to negate those impressions in the near future by finding something better..... and then do the same thing over and over each time. A good amp is a good amp even years later when something supersedes it.
> 
> That said, I think the V281 is my favorite amp at the moment. There are a few small things which seal the deal for me:
> 
> ...


 
 so~ may I ask does that means that the Taurus is still more transparent and neutral to you, but the functionality are  better on the V281? cheers


----------



## project86

I'll eventually flesh this out more in my formal review - sorry it is taking forever. But in summary, I'd say the Taurus has a somewhat more energetic top end. I don't know if that makes it more neutral or not.... I suppose that depends on the headphone involved.
  
 Much of the time I'd say the V281 XLR output is the most neutral of all, with the SE output being somewhat darker and the Taurus being a little brighter. Again, Taurus is still a very good amp.


----------



## Chik0240

project86 said:


> I'll eventually flesh this out more in my formal review - sorry it is taking forever. But in summary, I'd say the Taurus has a somewhat more energetic top end. I don't know if that makes it more neutral or not.... I suppose that depends on the headphone involved.
> 
> Much of the time I'd say the V281 XLR output is the most neutral of all, with the SE output being somewhat darker and the Taurus being a little brighter. Again, Taurus is still a very good amp.


 
 I see, thanks project 86
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have been enjoying the Taurus which I bought because of reading your review, and been enjoying the combo with my HE-500, I am sure the V281 is a worthy FOTM amp at least, just curious which one of them add less colour to the sound of HPs, which I suppose is how a good amp should be to allow true versatility to various headphones (which I might purchase and my wallet feels sad)


----------



## Ultrainferno

Edited, sorry.


----------



## lunz

For all people craving for V281 reviews, Headfonia should release their review on the amp by tomorow.
  
 Edit - The review is up and the title says it all, here is the link : http://www.headfonia.com/violectric-v281-masterpiece/


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks for the link!


----------



## gonzfi

Very tempted by one of these mofo's... could someone kindly advise what difference it makes depending on which of the optical input add ons I select? I guess I would go for the 24/192 kHz and then I have all bases covered?


----------



## lunz

I went with this option, waiting to upgrade with a better DAC next year. It is not the best, but still does a fine job for the moment


----------



## ghostchili

I was wondering if this is a fair comparison for a solid state amp under 3k.
  
 Violectric HPA V281
  
 vs
  
 Ray Samuels audio apache
  
http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/products/apache
  
 Trying to decide how to empty my piggy bank.


----------



## Megalomaniak

Just let you know guys this afternoon I balanced my Denon AH-D7000, I had to do it because the original cable was getting too anyoning so I got some good cable & connectors and here is the result:
  

  
 First impresions with V281 of course: Bass is cleaner, mids and highs more neutral than SE and dynamics & soundstage have increased considerably... Totally worth it, and just for 7€ (cable is Tasker C128 balanced microphone cable and connector Neutrik NC4MXX )


----------



## plakat

megalomaniak said:


> First impresions with V281 of course: Bass is cleaner, mids and highs more neutral than SE and dynamics & soundstage have increased considerably... Totally worth it, and just for 7€ (cable is Tasker C128 balanced microphone cable and connector Neutrik NC4MXX )


 
  
 Very nice... You replaced the lower part of the cable, starting at the joint, correct?
 Its rather cheap when one can do that oneself


----------



## project86

gonzfi said:


> Very tempted by one of these mofo's... could someone kindly advise what difference it makes depending on which of the optical input add ons I select? I guess I would go for the 24/192 kHz and then I have all bases covered?


 
  
 The newer 192kHz-capable DAC cards are significantly improved over the older ones. If you have any desire for the internal DAC, I'd make sure it was the newer version. The old models are just for convenience imho, while the 192kHz versions actually sound quite respectable considering their low prices. 
  
 Still, the amp is so good it deserves the best DAC you can afford. 
  


ghostchili said:


> I was wondering if this is a fair comparison for a solid state amp under 3k.
> 
> Violectric HPA V281
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Personally, I find the Apache (and pretty much all of Ray's amps for that matter) to be good looking, but poor sounding, and incredibly overpriced for what they are. Apache is especially bad with low impedance headphones. I know some people like RSA but for me it just doesn't work.
  
  


megalomaniak said:


> Just let you know guys this afternoon I balanced my Denon AH-D7000, I had to do it because the original cable was getting too anyoning so I got some good cable & connectors and here is the result:
> 
> 
> 
> First impresions with V281 of course: Bass is cleaner, mids and highs more neutral than SE and dynamics & soundstage have increased considerably... Totally worth it, and just for 7€ (cable is Tasker C128 balanced microphone cable and connector Neutrik NC4MXX )


 
  
 Looks nice!


----------



## plakat

project86 said:


> The newer 192kHz-capable DAC cards are significantly improved over the older ones. If you have any desire for the internal DAC, I'd make sure it was the newer version. The old models are just for convenience imho, while the 192kHz versions actually sound quite respectable considering their low prices.
> 
> Still, the amp is so good it deserves the best DAC you can afford.


 
  
 Yes, its a nice option if space is of concern. Its very unfortunate though that it requires drivers even on a Mac (and those drivers are unsigned and require disabling a security feature on 10.10 to work at all).
  
 I did get the 192kHz USB board, but got a DAC2 in the end, feeding the V281via XLR.


----------



## project86

plakat said:


> Yes, its a nice option if space is of concern. Its very unfortunate though that it requires drivers even on a Mac (and those drivers are unsigned and require disabling a security feature on 10.10 to work at all).
> 
> I did get the 192kHz USB board, but got a DAC2 in the end, feeding the V281via XLR.


 
  
  
 Yeah, the driver thing is a bummer. Not limited to Violectric but still annoying. 
  
 The DAC2 is more like a "proper" DAC that can help unlock the full potential of V281. Enjoy!


----------



## Tobes

Ordered my V281 this afternoon - silver version with the standard remote option.
 For the moment the DAC will still be my Grace m903 dac/amp (uses the PCM1798 like the Violectric 24/192 card, with arguably more sophisticated support chips/opamps). 
  
 Hoping the balanced output of the v281 will be a significant step up from the 903 driving my HE-500's - the 903 actually sounds quite good with the 500's.
 The Grace puts out around 1.5W into 50ohms (I measured the HE500's at 46.9 ohms) - at that impedance the v281's should offer 4W of (higher?) quality balanced drive. Wonder how it will shape up?
 Also interested to see how the extra grunt via the SE output improves my Q701's.


----------



## PleasantSounds

tobes said:


> [..]
> Also interested to see how the extra grunt via the SE output improves my Q701's.


 
  
 Hmm convert them to balanced. You can thank me later....


----------



## Tobes

pleasantsounds said:


> Hmm convert them to balanced. You can thank me later....


 
  
 Well, I'm converting the cable on the 500's - and also putting a female inline xlr to the TRS plug so I can compare the he-500's on both SE/balanced outputs of the v281.
 The he-500 is easy because they use 2 discrete pairs.
  
 The Q701 has that 3 pin mini xlr - so I'd have to modify the actual headphones. Don't know if I want to do this, especially since the 701's are mainly used for SE listening on my desktop computer.
 FWIW, I find the he-500's much superior to the 701's for extended music listening (with the Grace 903 anyway). But I really like the q701's as well. They're very different HF's.


----------



## Tobes

….I'm listening to the he-500's on the Grace M903 right now - sounding damn good.
 I must be crazy. Hope I've made the right decision dropping all that cash for v281(?)


----------



## project86

tobes said:


> Ordered my V281 this afternoon - silver version with the standard remote option.
> For the moment the DAC will still be my Grace m903 dac/amp (uses the PCM1798 like the Violectric 24/192 card, with arguably more sophisticated support chips/opamps).
> 
> Hoping the balanced output of the v281 will be a significant step up from the 903 driving my HE-500's - the 903 actually sounds quite good with the 500's.
> ...


 
  
  
 M903 is a nice DAC, so that's a good combo. Congrats!


----------



## townes

Just received my V281 today. I have ordered it with the relay-based volume control. The package contains the remote but how can I verify that it has indeed the relay-based option? I am not keen on opening the amp and no possibility to glimpse through some air vents. There's also no sticker on the amp, which would specify anything more than V281
  
 I am still waiting for a balanced cable to connect the Invicta DAC and the V281... therefore the amp will just sit on the shelf for the next few days.


----------



## roskodan

LOL OCD bros everywhere
  
 i guess you should be able to hear/feel 128 steps in volume change as opposed to only 40ihs positions on the regular pot ...


----------



## project86

townes said:


> Just received my V281 today. I have ordered it with the relay-based volume control. The package contains the remote but how can I verify that it has indeed the relay-based option? I am not keen on opening the amp and no possibility to glimpse through some air vents. There's also no sticker on the amp, which would specify anything more than V281
> 
> I am still waiting for a balanced cable to connect the Invicta DAC and the V281... therefore the amp will just sit on the shelf for the next few days.


 
  
  
 When powered on, turn the volume knob. You will hear a moderately loud, fast clicking noise as the knob rotates. That's relays in action. The noise will physically come from the amp itself, not through your headphones. Hard to explain but you'll know it when you hear it. 
  
 The regular volume option is silent as it turns.


----------



## townes

roskodan said:


> LOL OCD bros everywhere


 





 true... though I (try to) keep it limited to this hobby


----------



## townes

project86 said:


> When powered on, turn the volume knob. You will hear a moderately loud, fast clicking noise as the knob rotates. That's relays in action. The noise will physically come from the amp itself, not through your headphones. Hard to explain but you'll know it when you hear it.
> 
> The regular volume option is silent as it turns.


 
 Many thanks, I'll try that


----------



## gipsy

project86 said:


> When powered on, turn the volume knob. You will hear a moderately loud, fast clicking noise as the knob rotates. That's relays in action. The noise will physically come from the amp itself, not through your headphones. Hard to explain but you'll know it when you hear it.
> 
> The regular volume option is silent as it turns.


 

 Nice one Project 86..


----------



## Megalomaniak

plakat said:


> Very nice... You replaced the lower part of the cable, starting at the joint, correct?
> Its rather cheap when one can do that oneself


 
  
 Its all replaced yeah, from connector to the soldering of the driver itself. Opened cups and desolder to solder new cable!


----------



## gipsy

megalomaniak said:


> Just let you know guys this afternoon I balanced my Denon AH-D7000, I had to do it because the original cable was getting too anyoning so I got some good cable & connectors and here is the result:
> 
> 
> 
> First impresions with V281 of course: Bass is cleaner, mids and highs more neutral than SE and dynamics & soundstage have increased considerably... Totally worth it, and just for 7€ (cable is Tasker C128 balanced microphone cable and connector Neutrik NC4MXX )


 
 You inspired me Megalo..., I've ordered some Tasker C128 locally last week and trough the weekend here it is. It is indeed nice cable, and it sounds perfect with my 702.
 It is my first finished DIY cable so far. Next will be balanced for LCD-X and V281..


----------



## Megalomaniak

gipsy said:


> You inspired me Megalo..., I've ordered some Tasker C128 locally last week and trough the weekend here it is. It is indeed nice cable, and it sounds perfect with my 702.
> It is my first finished DIY cable so far. Next will be balanced for LCD-X and V281..


 
  
 Wow! Thats some fine job right there!
  
 The first time I did a litz braid was an adventure with so much cable, but the followings were easier!
  
 Im very glad I inspired you


----------



## gipsy

There was some collateral damage from soldering iron...but nothing major..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
 Braiding was very fast and easy, but soldering that mini XLR took me half day...
 Anyway, pleasure when I finally  connected my old and good AKG 702 with my new cable to Violectric V2∞1 payed it off..
 There was NO any difference to OEM cable that I can tell but at least looks fresh.
 Beauty of this Tasker cable is in different color wire where 1 is tinned and other not.
 I did use tinned one for common ground and copper once for hot port and starboard
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Once braided and mixed light makes all the work by reflecting differently to make pearl like effect.
  
 How did you come after this Tasker cable anyway??
  
 Now looking for some cheap Ohno cooper wire for Audeze.


----------



## plakat

townes said:


> Just received my V281 today. I have ordered it with the relay-based volume control. The package contains the remote but how can I verify that it has indeed the relay-based option? I am not keen on opening the amp and no possibility to glimpse through some air vents. There's also no sticker on the amp, which would specify anything more than V281


 
  
 Besides the clicks out of the amp itself (as project86 mentioned) you'll also hear an occasional click in your headphones while turning the volume knob due to the high-bit relays switching. May sound a bit like static noise. Thats normal and it will be silent as soon as you stop turning the knob.


----------



## Megalomaniak

gipsy said:


> There was some collateral damage from soldering iron...but nothing major..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha, you get used to those injuries after much soldering 
  
 I came across this cable in a local shop by pure chance. I was looking for local/internet dealers of Mogami or Canare cable but every single one I spoke with (and there were many) only sold it in 25 metres pack minimum (some even in 50) which was not nice.
  
 I've worked with Mogami cables before, but I just went to the local shop and asked for microphone balanced cable and there it was, it didnt sound familiar to me at the moment but since it was the same price as Mogami dual microphone cable, I bought a few metres of it for testing. Then I did a little research and it appears to be a very very fine cable (as they told me in the shop, and I couldnt tell the difference from the outside vs a mogami cable in terms of build quality) so profit.
  
 Fun fact: This local shop used to work with Mogami but due to problems with dealers they switched to Tasker.
  
 Also, I dont believe in audio differences between cables if they are pure and fine done, the only cables I believe modify the sound are those with strange impedances or variable ones (or uncommon ones), and I dont like that since thats coloring.
  
 I did use tinned one for ground too


----------



## headfiaddict

I was wondering if anyone has or had a Ray Samuels Dark Star and has heard the V281. I can get a deal on a Dark Star so let's assume I can get it for the same price as the V281. I am trying to decide between the 2. I have a wide range of headphones and might add the HE-6 or the HE-1000 (that one is a big if.) I need a balanced end game amp so i can focus on headphones and music. Should I even be comparing these 2?


----------



## Tobes

My 281 arrived and I've done some listening, comparing the he-500 in SE and balanced modes.  I've also compared with the SE output of my Grace 903 dac/amp. Source is a Mac mini, Audirvana +, iFi usb power/gemini cable into the 903 dac.
  
 Firstly, the 281 (in SE mode) easily betters the Grace 903 HF output. By comparison the 903 sounds tonally flat, less dynamics/impact, less detailed, less spacious - it sounds veiled in comparison. In balanced mode the v281 pulled even further ahead.
  
 Comparing the v281 SE to balanced with the he-500, I agree with previous comments that the SE sounds a bit darker, less lively and spacious.The SE mode sounds fine enough until you start comparing to the balanced - then it's hard to go back.
  
 I also did some brief listening with my Q701's on the SE output. These sounded excellent - punchy, very open and smoother sounding than with the Grace HF output. When going back and forth between the he-500's I still much preferred the latter on the 281 - the richer balance and superb bass is simply more musically realistic. When connected in balanced mode the he-500 gains extra spaciousness, cutting its deficit in this area with the q701. The perspectives are still quite different, the q701 more distant the he500 more up front.
  
 The 281's bass wallop, jumpy dynamics and spacious clarity are what first impresses - but I think it may be the extra layers of fine detail that make this amp such a big step up for me.


----------



## Xenophon

headfiaddict said:


> I was wondering if anyone has or had a Ray Samuels Dark Star and has heard the V281. I can get a deal on a Dark Star so let's assume I can get it for the same price as the V281. I am trying to decide between the 2. I have a wide range of headphones and might add the HE-6 or the HE-1000 (that one is a big if.) I need a balanced end game amp so i can focus on headphones and music. Should I even be comparing these 2?


 

 You'll have to try them and decide for yourself, for the cash involved I believe that's the best strategy.  I don't know the DS and it might very well be a brilliant headphone amp but what always bothered me was the lack of clear technical specs and measurement data.  The massive gain is emphasized but getting gain is not the issue.  My personal philosophy:  if you have esoterics like the K-1000 or HE-6 in your stable then bang/buck and if you have the space for it, a quiet, low power speaker amp is the way to go.  But obviously ymmv.


----------



## Ultrainferno

If all goes well my V281 should be back with me today after reparations, the Line Out L and R were indeed faulty. Don't you just love 5 year warranty


----------



## Xenophon

ultrainferno said:


> If all goes well my V281 should be back with me today after reparations, the Line Out L and R were indeed faulty. Don't you just love 5 year warranty


 

 Yeah but I love it even more if I don't have to make use of a warranty.  Am I getting the wrong impression reading this thread or are there a higher than average number of faults in the V281 units?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I don't get that impression really


----------



## plakat

ultrainferno said:


> If all goes well my V281 should be back with me today after reparations, the Line Out L and R were indeed faulty. Don't you just love 5 year warranty


 

 Glad to hear that! And yes, a no-questions-asked 5-year warranty is a nice thing to have in case something does go wrong. I think I remember its even transferable in case one sells the amp, isn't it?


----------



## mulder01

Yeah, I kinda agree with @Xenophon - I always thought there were quite a few people complaining of faults on this thread.  No real way of telling if the amount of complaints is out of the ordinary for the number of units sold though.  eg. You don't know if there was 1500 of these sold and they have a 1% problem rate and almost every person with a problem posts about it on here (12 or so people complaining), and another amplifier may sell 200 units and have a 5% fail rate but not many people write their complaints on head fi because there's not a very active thread for that particular amp (3 or 4 people complaining even though the failure rate is 5 times higher)... So it's a bit hard to tell.  Of course I have pulled all of these figures out of my arse but I'm just saying... If it helps, there's nothing wrong with mine and it sounds awesome


----------



## plakat

I think its normal that people tend to complain in a forum as happy owners only go here if they use it regularly anyway. Others are often simply looking for help with their problem, that might skew the overall picture.
  
 Another thing is a conceptual error, i.e. the same error occurring on many instances: that might indeed indicate a real problem in the sense of 'many faulty units', not an oversight in a single unit (bad as that is for the respective owner of course).


----------



## Megalomaniak

Well, I think most complains come from pre-order units or first units that had problems while shipping due to temperature and that stuff like my unit. My problem was the volume knob loose itself but the solution was easy and fast by Violectric, no problem here afterwards.
  
 But this unit is built solid as hell, so nobody should worry about it lasting 50 years. German stuff is done well.


----------



## rnsto

Is it me ....have I missed the review of project86 ?
 don't want to hurry you,but am between the ragnorak (rather not) and the violectric!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

rnsto said:


> Is it me ....have I missed the review of project86 ?
> don't want to hurry you,but am between the ragnorak (rather not) and the violectric!!




was he going to review it? Frank and Lieven reviewed the 281 and another guy reviewed the SE one


----------



## rnsto

project86 said:


> I haven't heard the Liquid Gold yet but the V281 easily outperforms the older Liquid Fire, as well as the Liquid Glass (though I realize the Glass is not necessarily a direct competitor).
> 
> Glad you enjoy the V281 as much as I do.
> 
> ...


----------



## project86

Sorry everyone, I'm just way backed up on reviews. Still very much impressed by the V281 though! I'll get around to the full review once I'm caught up. I happen to have here the review loaner with the motorized Alps volume, sitting along side my own unit (that I ordered after falling in love with the loaner) with the maxxed out volume upgrade. I'm trying to nail down the differences and see how much improvement is achieved by the upgrade.


----------



## rnsto

project86 said:


> Sorry everyone, I'm just way backed up on reviews. Still very much impressed by the V281 though! I'll get around to the full review once I'm caught up. I happen to have here the review loaner with the motorized Alps volume, sitting along side my own unit (that I ordered after falling in love with the loaner) with the maxxed out volume upgrade. I'm trying to nail down the differences and see how much improvement is achieved by the upgrade.


 

 thanks John ,
 didn't want to rush you !
 but i am waiting.


----------



## Llloyd

Haven't visited this thread in a while.  Forgot how nice vioelectric gear looks.  Both the brushed silver and the black.  It's hard for me to say what sort of look they are channeling in their design, maybe someone could enlighten me.  The knobs looks very pleasant to use, whatever it is about them, they look very smooth.


----------



## RickDastardly

llloyd said:


> Haven't visited this thread in a while.  Forgot how nice vioelectric gear looks.  Both the brushed silver and the black.  It's hard for me to say what sort of look they are channeling in their design, maybe someone could enlighten me.  The knobs looks very pleasant to use, whatever it is about them, they look very smooth.




You can't beat a nice big, smooth knob. 

Well, you can, and it can be rather fun, but this is not the place for those sorts of antics.

Sorry...couldn't resist...and it seems like it won't be long before my resistance fails and I buy one of these. I'm a bit nervous about the order process though. Anyone got any guidance? I will probably use PayPal.


----------



## Ultrainferno

My V281 is back in and all is working perfectly (LO). This really is one extraordinairy sounding amplifier


----------



## project86

rickdastardly said:


> You can't beat a nice big, smooth knob.
> 
> Well, you can, and it can be rather fun, but this is not the place for those sorts of antics.
> 
> Sorry...couldn't resist...and it seems like it won't be long before my resistance fails and I buy one of these. I'm a bit nervous about the order process though. Anyone got any guidance? I will probably use PayPal.


 
  
  
 If you are in the USA, go HERE and choose your options. Then wait for Arthur to contact you - it's that simple!


----------



## RickDastardly

project86 said:


> If you are in the USA, go HERE and choose your options. Then wait for Arthur to contact you - it's that simple!




Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. However, I'm actually in the UK, so I was intending to order direct from Lake People. Does anyone have experience of the payment process? I've been through the steps in the checkout, and I gather you just send the money through via PayPal or bank transfer...I'm just a bit nervous about it as it's quite a chunk of money for me. Knowing me, I'd fudge the address and send some complete random a nice gift.


----------



## naimless

I got mine through Thomann,they're are actually cheaper than lake people's own website,they don't list all of lake people's options although I think they are available if you contact Thomann directly.Only downside I found was I had to place my order while they were out of stock to avoid the price rise and it was a month before I recieved mine.


----------



## rnsto

is it possible John/project86 ,to take the yulong da8 in the review of the Vio?
 it would really help me to make a up my mind on my next purchase.
 Or if you're willing to enlighten me before the review?
  
 thanks 
 Rnsto


----------



## ellevoid

rnsto said:


> is it possible John/project86 ,to take the yulong da8 in the review of the Vio?
> it would really help me to make a up my mind on my next purchase.
> Or if you're willing to enlighten me before the review?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Which DAC and Amp are you using right now and using with what headphone?


----------



## project86

rnsto said:


> is it possible John/project86 ,to take the yulong da8 in the review of the Vio?
> it would really help me to make a up my mind on my next purchase.
> Or if you're willing to enlighten me before the review?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Sure, I use DA8 often. It pairs well with the V281 - clean, dynamic, very "analog" sounding combo. I push the volume knob to deactivate the preamp option of the DA8 and handle everything on the V281. And I use balanced connection between the two devices because... why not?


----------



## rnsto

project86 said:


> Sure, I use DA8 often. It pairs well with the V281 - clean, dynamic, very "analog" sounding combo. I push the volume knob to deactivate the preamp option of the DA8 and handle everything on the V281. And I use balanced connection between the two devices because... why not?


 

 thanks .
 schiit bifrost /lyr/Beyer T1
 Da8 /Lcd.X as of now i think the Vio 281.
 Any comments on the volume pot?
 that is my last question ,as for the rest i will wait for your review.
  
 Rnsto


----------



## uelover

project86 said:


> Sure, I use DA8 often. It pairs well with the V281 - clean, dynamic, very "analog" sounding combo. I push the volume knob to deactivate the preamp option of the DA8 and handle everything on the V281. And I use balanced connection between the two devices because... why not?




For some reason I prefer the single ended input of the v281 to the balanced input. Am using benchmark dac1 and Sennheiser hd800. On the balanced input the kids seems to take a step back while further widening the soundstage (perhaps too wide) and the vocals just got lost.


----------



## mulder01

uelover said:


> For some reason I prefer the single ended input of the v281 to the balanced input. Am using benchmark dac1 and Sennheiser hd800. On the balanced input the kids seems to take a step back while further widening the soundstage (perhaps too wide) and the vocals just got lost.


 
  
 Really? Because doesn't the balanced input just get used for noise rejection and is immediately converted back to single ended?


----------



## uelover

mulder01 said:


> Really? Because doesn't the balanced input just get used for noise rejection and is immediately converted back to single ended?




What do you think would make me post something that is unreal (at least to my experience)?


----------



## mulder01

uelover said:


> What do you think would make me post something that is unreal (at least to my experience)?


 
 That's a fair call.  I just remember a few pages back people complaining that the balanced input was just converted straight back to single ended.


----------



## rawrster

I'm pretty tempted to get this and go balance with my HE-560 and maybe purchase the HD800 again. I'm assuming short of the HE-6 this amp shouldn't have issues driving anything else but of course correct me if I am incorrect.
  
 Has anyone paired up this amp with the V800 dac? Also does upgrading the volume control make that much a difference? The maxed out volume control puts it at almost 3k which is significantly higher than the Ragnarok which is the other amp I'm tempted. I would save a lot of space with this amp and desk space has a huge premium with my smallish desk.


----------



## mulder01

rawrster said:


> I'm pretty tempted to get this and go balance with my HE-560 and maybe purchase the HD800 again. I'm assuming short of the HE-6 this amp shouldn't have issues driving anything else but of course correct me if I am incorrect.
> 
> Has anyone paired up this amp with the V800 dac? Also does upgrading the volume control make that much a difference? The maxed out volume control puts it at almost 3k which is significantly higher than the Ragnarok which is the other amp I'm tempted. I would save a lot of space with this amp and desk space has a huge premium with my smallish desk.


 
  
 IMO I think it should be able to drive just about anything.  Just look at those specs.  I have an Abyss plugged into mine and on +0 pre gain I listen at about 2:00 MAX (usually around 12:00).  Off a quieter source I might use +6 pre gain, but I don't think I've heard a single person say they use the +12 setting.  If you ran out of power on this thing I'd be pretty shocked.
  
 +1 - I'd like to hear from more people pairing this amp with the v800 dac.  I've been thinking about buying it so I have the matching kit.  I noticed rawrster that you already own it, and from what Fried says about the digital volume control in project 86's review http://www.head-fi.org/t/574418/review-violectric-v800-dac, it sounds like using the digital volume control on your dac would be the way to go.  Would save you having to go the volume control upgrades.  FWIW though, I have the stock volume knob and I think it's flawless anyway.


----------



## rawrster

I never thought about the v800 volume control and forgot all about it until now. I'm not sure why the dac isn't more popular. Outside of DSD it has most of the features that is needed around here. Another bonus with this amp would be I've never had a matched pairing before in same company for dac and amp at the same time before. 
  
 Hopefully project86 can chime in about the pairing.


----------



## navigavi

I'm using the v800 with the v281 (and also keeping my v200 because I like it). I've never really had any other dac besides the v800 connected with the v281 or v200. All I can say is that this combo is really good with the hd800. You should look into my previous posts in this thread for futher impressions. I use the volume control on the v281, not the v800. I always thought one should use the volume control on the amp, not the dac. What's different with the v281+v800 that I should use dac volume control?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Don't you think the V200 basically sounds the same as the SE from the V281? That's exactly the reason I sold my V200


----------



## navigavi

ultrainferno said:


> Don't you think the V200 basically sounds the same as the SE from the V281? That's exactly the reason I sold my V200


 

 It does. But I'm just a fan of violectric products and I like the stack


----------



## Megalomaniak

navigavi said:


> It does. But I'm just a fan of violectric products and I like the stack


 
 Connect it to the pre-amp of the V281 and you have 4 SE outputs to rock with friends!


----------



## Frank I

ultrainferno said:


> Don't you think the V200 basically sounds the same as the SE from the V281? That's exactly the reason I sold my V200


 
  Better balanced with more open soundstage but it is a V200 single ended . Actually it is 2 V200 in  a single chassis.


----------



## hennessys

megalomaniak said:


> Connect it to the pre-amp of the V281 and you have 4 SE outputs to rock with friends!




I love Violectric amps for this. Used it just last night; a listenning session for three with a burrata, speck & a bottle of brunello.


----------



## Tobes

With more extended listening to the v281 I'm growing to love this amp. It really allows an engrossing musical experience.
  
 Even from new it sounded very good. However there was some slight hardness on musical transients that bothered me a little (this was not something I'd previously heard with the he-500).
 This transient hardness has now disappeared and the v281 sounds wonderfully refined - though very revealing and 'open' sounding.
 Acoustic instruments sound so realistic and truthful. Piano sounds so tonally right with the proper weight and balance.
 The noise floor seems to be dropping further away with extended use. I'm hearing subtle details, sensing the space/air of fine acoustic recordings, movments of players and mumblings as they play - sounds external to the recording venue(!) etc. Quiet music sounds so much more interesting/involving.
  
 There may well be better pairings than the v281/he-500 - but it's hard for me to imagine.


----------



## zach915m

tobes said:


> With more extended listening to the v281 I'm growing to love this amp. It really allows an engrossing musical experience.
> 
> Even from new it sounded very good. However there was some slight hardness on musical transients that bothered me a little (this was not something I'd previously heard with the he-500).
> This transient hardness has now disappeared and the v281 sounds wonderfully refined - though very revealing and 'open' sounding.
> ...


 

 I also agree it's an incredible pairing with the HE-500 and it makes me happy I've held on to mine despite the temptation to get a 560 or 400i.  The dynamic range and impact is so right.
  
 I also experienced the same-hardness to musicality factor - as after letting the amp run for a couple days it has really bloomed for me.


----------



## RickDastardly

I placed my order with Fried today for a V281 with black faceplate and gold feet. Now begins the hardest part of this hobby...waiting!


----------



## Xenophon

hennessys said:


> I love Violectric amps for this. Used it just last night; a listenning session for three with a burrata, speck & a bottle of brunello.


 

 Too bad you can't cart the amp to the gym to work all that tasty goodness off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, couldn't resist.
  
 Personally I've never, ever used both outputs on my V200 simultaneously, always gives problems with the volume if you use different cans.


----------



## plakat

xenophon said:


> Personally I've never, ever used both outputs on my V200 simultaneously, always gives problems with the volume if you use different cans.


 
 ... or different people. Yes, for two outputs to be actually useful two separate volume controls (or maybe some kind of offset for one output) would be necessary.


----------



## hennessys

xenophon said:


> Too bad you can't cart the amp to the gym to work all that tasty goodness off
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 No worries, when it comes to good sound & music, wine and food DNAPO no reason to be shy. On the other-hand, gym  should allow you to enjoy the life (what other reason to sweat?)

  
 Fried suggested me to put two amps in the chain to use cans with very different impedance. It’s working like a charm ever since, with no notice of coloration in the sound. Both amps are controlling the headphones connected to the HP out. I’m kinda deaf compared to the rest of the family, so I need some power to enjoy, You were right abt the HE-6 though. It needs to be amped well.


----------



## hennessys

plakat said:


> ... or different people. Yes, for two outputs to be actually useful two separate volume controls (or maybe some kind of offset for one output) would be necessary.


 
 Well, you will need two amps for that, one for each output.
  
 You can try to play with resistor controlled output. Building an independent unit for this can be very challenging and the sound won't be te same.


----------



## plakat

hennessys said:


> Well, you will need two amps for that, one for each output.
> 
> You can try to play with resistor controlled output. Building an independent unit for this can be very challenging and the sound won't be te same.


 

 Thats (part of) my point: the V281 does have two amps... though they are not there for driving two headphones out of one box of course. And I seldom have the need for that as I try to keep away from comparing equipment for the sake of comparisons


----------



## hennessys

Point taken, it's a feature i was hunting for a long time. I usually listen much louder than my wife.


----------



## Ultrainferno

My V281 is in my living room and each time my girlfriend goes up a page in Netflix with the remote of the TV, my selected source on the V281 changes


----------



## Frank I

have that issue with the Burson Conductor that  in here now.


----------



## plakat

ultrainferno said:


> My V281 is in my living room and each time my girlfriend goes up a page in Netflix with the remote of the TV, my selected source on the V281 changes


 

 As I've heard registering ones own range of IR signals is expensive...


----------



## Cobold

Phonitor 2 has the perfect solution concerning remote control.


----------



## plakat

cobold said:


> Phonitor 2 has the perfect solution concerning remote control.


 

 But that only covers volume control... being able to switch inputs can come in handy as well. On the other hand I don't use remotes at all with my headphone amps as I don't use them as preamps, so I don't care too much about that anyway.


----------



## alec66

Black V281 here: coupled with Exasound E22 and LCD3-F;
 DAC is still in burn in stage, but with V281 seems something really out of ordinary....
 I can also confirm that V281 also with HE-560 is a truly fantastic combo!!!
  
 p.s. Just sent an email to Lake People asking for silver front (just to match Exasound silver face) as spare part, hope they will reply me...


----------



## gipsy

Let us know...that option is interesting for me as well..
  
 Thanks


alec66 said:


> Black V281 here: coupled with Exasound E22 and LCD3-F;
> DAC is still in burn in stage, but with V281 seems something really out of ordinary....
> I can also confirm that V281 also with HE-560 is a truly fantastic combo!!!
> 
> p.s. Just sent an email to Lake People asking for silver front (just to match Exasound silver face) as spare part, hope they will reply me...


 
 Let us know...that option is interesting for me as well..


----------



## rnsto

now the waiting begins.
 just placed my order


----------



## gonzfi

You won't be disappointed. Especially if you happen to have an he-500 with a balanced cable.


----------



## rnsto

gonzfi said:


> You won't be disappointed. Especially if you happen to have an he-500 with a balanced cable.


 

 no .i've got the lcd.x /T1
 yulong da8 
 and the bifrost/lyr


----------



## Ultrainferno

gonzfi said:


> You won't be disappointed. Especially if you happen to have an he-500 with a balanced cable.


 
  
 That is a gorgeous combo indeed
  


rnsto said:


> no .i've got the lcd.x /T1
> yulong da8
> and the bifrost/lyr


 
  
 A real amp finally! I kid. You'll love it with the LCD X in balanced


----------



## rnsto

thats the intention to drive it balanced .
 i would also hook my dynaudio's on the balanced  output.
  
 counting off


----------



## bitsnbytes

warrenpchi said:


> http://headphone.guru/the-violectric-hpa-v220/
> 
> 
> Though, personally, I would classify it as fair rather than negative - but I think you'd agree that I've been critical where I felt it was warranted.




Apologies in advance for digging into the past.

From some accounts the v281 is just a balanced version of the v220. 

A review elsewhere (Lieven) suggests that the HD650 is good with the v281, but no specifics on the pairing.

Can anyone report if the HD650 is also --er, suffocating-- with the v281?


----------



## gipsy

I can tell for HD 600...
 breathing like Cetacea with V281 in balanced mode.
 Can't tell for single ended as I did cut my cable as I got them and soldered 4 pin XLR instead.(Funny wires inside that cable dough.)
  
 Bass is amazing as highs and mids. Perfect pairing for me.
 Only when I put my LCD-X I can say there is something more...
  
 Gibo


----------



## project86

bitsnbytes said:


> Apologies in advance for digging into the past.
> 
> From some accounts the v281 is just a balanced version of the v220.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Personally I think even the original V200 is dynamite with HD650. I guess if you had an older version (black drivers, before the silver driver update brought out more top end) it might not pair so well with the warmer, smoother signature..... but a modern HD650 or HD600 will be fine imho. That should translate to the V220 or the SE output of V281 as well. 
  
 Now, add balanced mode from V281 and it's a whole new level. The HD650 scales about as well as any headphone I've ever heard.


----------



## Ultrainferno

project86 said:


> Personally I think even the original V200 is dynamite with HD650. I guess if you had an older version (black drivers, before the silver driver update brought out more top end) it might not pair so well with the warmer, smoother signature..... but a modern HD650 or HD600 will be fine imho. That should translate to the V220 or the SE output of V281 as well.
> 
> Now, add balanced mode from V281 and it's a whole new level. The HD650 scales about as well as any headphone I've ever heard.


 
  
 I fully agree


----------



## bitsnbytes

project86 said:


> Personally I think even the original V200 is dynamite with HD650. I guess if you had an older version (black drivers, before the silver driver update brought out more top end) it might not pair so well with the warmer, smoother signature..... but a modern HD650 or HD600 will be fine imho. That should translate to the V220 or the SE output of V281 as well.
> 
> Now, add balanced mode from V281 and it's a whole new level. The HD650 scales about as well as any headphone I've ever heard.


 
  
 Thanks John for your input. I enjoy your reviews. BTW, it was your IF review of the FSA Bobby that got me onto the balance amp train...haven't looked back except for the occasional flirt with the (SE) tube amp. Curse you. 
  
 I'm seriously thinking of the V281; however, reading Warren's review of the V220 where he had a bad experience with the HD650 pairing gave me a bit of hesitation regarding the signature sound. (I'm not sure which version of the 650 he was using.) My concern is if there's too much warmth--if the V281 is a balanced iteration of the V220 (and should it really be that bad with the 650s), then I'll be using one less headphone on this amp.
  
  
 More troubling is if there are other headphones (650-like or otherwise) that won't be as good on it. The bigger concern is if the signature on the V281 will be too warm, but I think I'm reading many who said that it's more neutral favoring warm than actually warm. And that in balance mode, it's a different beast.


----------



## plakat

bitsnbytes said:


> The bigger concern is if the signature on the V281 will be too warm, but I think I'm reading many who said that it's more neutral favoring warm than actually warm.


 
  
 Thats what I would call it: its nothing more than a touch. Plus I think what makes part of that impression is the high power of that amp, giving a really nice, solid, kicking bass.


----------



## ghostchili

bitsnbytes said:


> I'm seriously thinking of the V281; however, reading Warren's review of the V220 where he had a bad experience with the HD650 pairing gave me a bit of hesitation regarding the signature sound. (I'm not sure which version of the 650 he was using.) My concern is if there's too much warmth--if the V281 is a balanced iteration of the V220 (and should it really be that bad with the 650s), then I'll be using one less headphone on this amp.
> 
> 
> More troubling is if there are other headphones (650-like or otherwise) that won't be as good on it. The bigger concern is if the signature on the V281 will be too warm, but I think I'm reading many who said that it's more neutral favoring warm than actually warm. And that in balance mode, it's a different beast.


 
  
 I just finished burning in my V281, it is an awesome amp. I have some burn-in left on my DirectStream DAC but the combo is more than great. I find the V281 to be transparent, I wouldn't say is warm more than it is full sounding. I think you will love the V281, I feel the DAC you use will change the sound more than the V281 will.
  
 Stay tuned, I will be doing a full review of the V281 with a wide range of high end headphones. I won't be doing an amp vs amp review, it will be how each headphone pairs with the V281. I am still waiting a few new releases and I will update this thread when I have the full list of headphones, I'm guessing early April. I plan to have the review posted just before or immediately after Axpona.


----------



## rawrster

Is this the only amp out there that doesn't take up that much space but still remains a powerful amp? I realize not everything is power but I would like something that potentially sounds good with the he6 if I go that route. Ideally I would like to spend less but all the amps I see are much larger and take up too much space.


----------



## Tobes

rawrster said:


> Is this the only amp out there that doesn't take up that much space but still remains a powerful amp?


 
 While is doesn't have the wide flat form factor of some other amps, just remember the v281 is fairly deep - about 350mm including front knobs and rear connectors. That said, I think the 281's form factor is quite desktop friendly.


----------



## rawrster

The flat form factor like a Schiit Mjolnir or similar amp is too much retail for me. I haven't seen many amps or any other amp in this price range with this form factor. I just was wondering if there's any competition there but I think I'm leaning to the v281 wins by default.


----------



## project86

rawrster said:


> The flat form factor like a Schiit Mjolnir or similar amp is too much retail for me. I haven't seen many amps or any other amp in this price range with this form factor. I just was wondering if there's any competition there but I think I'm leaning to the v281 wins by default.


 
  
 I'll echo what was said above: the V281 is not small. It's got the V200 form factor you are familiar with, but twice as high and deeper too. That said, I can't think of any other top level amps that would take up less space. The competition is Auralic Taurus, Schiit Ragnarok, HeadAmp GSX, and perhaps the SimAudio Moon 430HA (which I have yet to hear). All of those are quite wide compared to V281. I know you aren't a tube guy, and many of the top tube amps are large as well - Balancing Act and the other EC amps, DNA Stratus, etc. So perhaps V281 really IS the default choice for your needs.
  
  
 BTW, I just heard from Arthur, North American distributor of Lake People/Violectric. He tells me that due to the decline in the Euro, he is able to offer 15% off as a sort of "Spring Sale" for those of us in the USA or Canada. No clue if this will last a long time or if it's temporary.... I suppose it depends on what the Euro does, as well as the Dollar.
  
 Anyway, that's a pretty nice little discount. Lake People G109S is almost $100 off. V200 is just over $900 now, and V181 is $850. Nice discount on V281 as well - almost as low as it was before the price bump happened a few months back. As this is temporary, it might be good to buy sooner than later assuming you had your eye on some of this gear.


----------



## rawrster

The price is a bit much at this point even with the discount. However on thomann's site it's much less for me (dollar to euro is pretty good right now). They seem to have two options where one is without the Motor RC and one with it. It looks like I can save quite a bit buying it from them. I'm pretty tempted...
  
 I just need to buy a balanced Hifiman cable too


----------



## townes

I have the V281 (with the relay based volume control) since about a month. It's part of my bedside rig (Resonessence Invicta using SD cards -> balanced connection -> V281 -> HD800 (balanced Sennheiser cable).
 This amp is really excellent! Previously I had a GSX mk2, but because of it's form factor I sold it. The amp needed more space in the depth (case plus the thick powerline between amp and power supply) than I had available on the shelf.
 The current setup has a balanced interconnect with angled Neutrik plugs between the V281 and the DAC. The power line cable has also an angled plug on the amp side. So the footprint is as small as it gets.
 After selling the GSX, I first tried to be happy with just using the build-in headphone amp in the Invicta (in balanced mode, using a Tam Audio adapter cable)... but having had the GSX before, this was a "no go". With the V281 I am back to the same sound quality I had before (at least). Be aware, I sold the GSX two months before I received the V281, therefore the time gap is to big for a precise and fair comparison.


----------



## project86

Hey, we have similar systems! I'm running Invicta Mirus to the V281 (with the relay volume option) via XLR connection, then out to various headphones including the HD800 on a regular basis (via balanced cable). I agree, it's an excellent setup, not cheap but worth every penny when you listen to it. 
  
  
 The good thing is, if you ever want to try any other headphones, the V281 is more than up to the task.


----------



## townes

From reading your (helpful) posts and reviews, which I always appreciate, I know you also like these Invictas (original and Mirus). I have a Mirus in addition, which is part of the desktop setup and connected to a BHSE/Stax. Combining the excellent audio quality with the SD card reader and the rich/useful feature set and build quality makes it an outstanding DAC (completely disagreeing with those - in fact very few - contributers in the thread "Thoughts on a bunch of DACs...").
  
 But this thread is about the V281: even after the price raise, IMO it's worth every Euro/Dollar and can compete successfully with more expensive amps.


----------



## zach915m

ghostchili said:


> I wouldn't say is warm more than it is full sounding. I think you will love the V281, I feel the DAC you use will change the sound more than the V281 will.


 
  
 I think that's the best description of this amp I've heard.  It's just incredibly punchy and vibrant without being overly warm.  The DAC used really is "amplified" by this amp.  I've found my old EAD DSP 7000 is my favorite so far.


----------



## lunz

That is one thing that I would like to know as well: which DAC has for you a good synergy with the V281 ?
 I am currently using the optional USB DAC of the V281, but will certainly upgrade in a near future.
  
 Edit: I am currently aiming for a Mirus, but all other recommendation in the 1000-5000 range that complements well the V281 is good to know.


----------



## navigavi

lunz said:


> That is one thing that I would like to know as well: which DAC has for you a good synergy with the V281 ?


 
  
 What about violectric's own v800? I'm using it with the v281 and it's really good.


----------



## lunz

The form factor is great for the V800 and I always wanted one. But the DAC is starting to date a bit. I might just as well wait for Frieds future DAC that will be released in what...2 to 3 years from now ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Violectric is releasing a new DAC this year


----------



## project86

Not sure how much they want it to be public knowledge at this stage.... but yes, new stuff coming from Violectric sooner than later. The obvious, which we all saw coming (and I believe has been discussed here many pages ago), is a refreshed V800. The other is something altogether different.... 
  
 Expect high-res USB using an XMOS solution rather than the Tenor chip as used by the current USB cards. There was talk of an exchange program to swap out USB cards for those users currently experiencing issues. But I don't have any other details about that. Personally I had zero issues with the 24/192 DAC card in the V281.


----------



## bitsnbytes

Can anyone with a HE-6 provide some impressions with the V281? Thanks.


----------



## JeffMann

lunz said:


> That is one thing that I would like to know as well: which DAC has for you a good synergy with the V281 ?
> I am currently using the optional USB DAC of the V281, but will certainly upgrade in a near future.
> 
> Edit: I am currently aiming for a Mirus, but all other recommendation in the 1000-5000 range that complements well the V281 is good to know.




I am very happy with my Anedio D2 DAC in combination with my V281/HD 800 combo (in balanced mode).

Jeff.


----------



## project86

bitsnbytes said:


> Can anyone with a HE-6 provide some impressions with the V281? Thanks.


 
  
  
 I was just using that combo last night, fed by the Exogal Comet DAC (in a fully balanced setup). V281 drives the HE-6 better than anything else I've tried, including the Taurus and several integrated amps. You get authority, speed, definition, and massive dynamics. Still not as open sounding as an HD800, and probably not as good as my Stax rig either.... but not far behind.


----------



## plakat

lunz said:


> That is one thing that I would like to know as well: which DAC has for you a good synergy with the V281 ?
> I am currently using the optional USB DAC of the V281, but will certainly upgrade in a near future.
> 
> Edit: I am currently aiming for a Mirus, but all other recommendation in the 1000-5000 range that complements well the V281 is good to know.


 

 I use a Benchmark DAC2 HGC and like it quite a bit. There's a DAC-only version available as well under the name "DAC2 L" (i.e. without the headphone amp), but I use the headphone out quite often.


----------



## alec66

lunz said:


> That is one thing that I would like to know as well: which DAC has for you a good synergy with the V281 ?
> I am currently using the optional USB DAC of the V281, but will certainly upgrade in a near future.
> 
> Edit: I am currently aiming for a Mirus, but all other recommendation in the 1000-5000 range that complements well the V281 is good to know.


 

 I run V281 with Exasound E22: amazing combo!
 I tried many well known DAC's but Exa is on another planet...
  
 p.s. all balanced with LCD3-F


----------



## project86

I'm no fan of the Benchmark DAC 1 (too brittle for me), but their DAC 2 is very nice. And I also agree that the Exasound stuff is quite good as well (and under appreciated). Plenty of excellent stuff to choose from.
  
 I've been using the Resonessence Labs Invicta Mirus, the Exogal Comet, and the NuPrime DAC-10H in about equal measure. Also the Parasound Zdac v2, which is a lot of bang for the buck. I like how V281 brings out the subtle differences among all these models.


----------



## Tobes

> Originally Posted by *project86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I was just using that combo last night, fed by the Exogal Comet DAC (in a fully balanced setup). V281 drives the HE-6 better than anything else I've tried, including the Taurus and several integrated amps. You get authority, speed, definition, and massive dynamics. Still not as open sounding as an HD800, and probably not as good as my Stax rig eithauer.... but not far behind.


 
  
 While I love the sound of my he-500's with the v281, I'm curious about the he-6.
 I was thinking of saving for the (unreleased) he-1000, but the pre-order price in Aust has been listed as AU$4,300 - which makes the he-6 attractive (agian) at AU$1400.
  
 Could you describe the he-6 strengths relative to the 500 with the 281? 
 Also interested to hear how the tonal balance of the he-6 fares, since there is some criticism of this vs the 500.


----------



## project86

tobes said:


> While I love the sound of my he-500's with the v281, I'm curious about the he-6.
> I was thinking of saving for the (unreleased) he-1000, but the pre-order price in Aust has been listed as AU$4,300 - which makes the he-6 attractive (agian) at AU$1400.
> 
> Could you describe the he-6 strengths relative to the 500 with the 281?
> Also interested to hear how the tonal balance of the he-6 fares, since there is some criticism of this vs the 500.


 
  
 I obviously can't speak for the HE-1000 yet, but I intend to give that a try at some point. Looks promising, though I'm not thrilled about that price... my expectations rise considerably when you start charging Stax money. 
  
 As far as HE-6, I never really enjoyed it as driven by most amps. Even from V200, it was "good" but never "great". But from the V281 (and Auralic Taurus as well) the HE-6 is one of my favorites.
  
 V281 + HE-500 is great, very solid performance all around, but HE-6 seems to have it beat on a number of levels. First is low end slam. HE-6 has more authority than pretty much any headphone I've heard. Listening to Felix Hell's _Organ Sensation_ (Reference Recordings HRx release) is remarkable on this setup. The sensation of real air movement is palpable. The only thing missing is that full-body pressure you get with big speakers, although I swear my brain tries to "suggest" that sort of thing with the V281/HE-6.
  
 Then there's imaging, and top end resolution.... both improved with HE-6. Talk about a clear window into the music! It's up there with HD800 and LCD-3. 
  
 I don't love the comfort of HE-6, but it's not terrible either, and for this SQ at a relatively sane price, I can deal with it.


----------



## Tobes

project86 said:


> I obviously can't speak for the HE-1000 yet, but I intend to give that a try at some point. Looks promising, though I'm not thrilled about that price... my expectations rise considerably when you start charging Stax money.
> 
> As far as HE-6, I never really enjoyed it as driven by most amps. Even from V200, it was "good" but never "great". But from the V281 (and Auralic Taurus as well) the HE-6 is one of my favorites.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks.
 What about tonal balance?
 Do you find the more emphatic top end of the he-6 fatiguing with the v281 (compared to the 500)?


----------



## Zkadoush

I have a Benchmark DAC2 DX + V281 combo, and the level of detail and refined articulation is simply staggering. Especially with my HD800s.
 Benchmark's DAC2 HGC series is an extremely priceworthy option for a state of the art D/A converter. The DAC2 series has almost unrivaled performance and comes with really solid features, several of which are unavailable with other DACs (such as their Hybrid Gain Control, 3,5 dB extra high headroom 32-bit DSP, etc.), and that clearly put it in a class of its own.

 My only quibble with my DAC2 DX is that, although Benchmark lists "Low-Impedance Passive Output Attenuators" among its features, this is not quite the case. The 10dB attenuation has a 425 Ohm output impedance, and the 20 dB attenuation has a 135 Ohm output impedance. The otherwise great BYPASS mode for the DAC2's volume control, that can be locked using the output bus for the balanced outputs has a default +24 dB output, which is a little high for the V281's max +21 dB balanced input.

 Fried suggested I use the DAC2 - in variable mode - with 20 dB attenuators to avoid hitting the + 24 dB, and to avoid the relatively high 425 Ohm output impedance of the DAC2's 10 dB attenuators, and use the V281's own gain adjustments to compensate. Fried also mentioned that the high output impedance could make the cables more prone to hiss and hum. I tried both attenuators and couldn't detect any hum or noise, so I went with the 10 dB attenuators, which keep the max output of the balanced outputs at +14 dB.

 The balanced inputs of the V281 have a 10k Ohms input impedance, which makes the 425 Ohms output impedance of the DAC2 more than 20 times lower, and going by the rule of thumb 10:1 input/output ratio, I'm still well in the clear with the 10 dB attenuators 425 Ohms output impedance. I also think both components are well grounded and should reject any hum or hiss.

 Fried also mentioned that the +24 dB output of the Benchmark in BYPASS mode won't by any means damage the circuitry of the V281, but that there can be distortion by maximum levels.

 I am currently using the DAC2 in variable mode with the volume pot fully clockwise, and regulating volume with the V281. I have no issues whatsoever with distortion, and I have plenty of headroom for more quiet classical location recordings with little or no compression.

 I definitely recommend Benchmark's DAC2 series, which also - with exception of the DAC2 L - feature Benchmak's excellent HPA2 0 Ohm headphone Amp. I can enjoy my HD800s directly from the headphone outputs of the Benchmark, but even more so from the V281. My LCD-Xs also sound fantastic directly from the DAC2, but better from the V281. The bass of my HD800s from the V281's headphone outputs is just astonishing and keeps surprising me. I almost have a feeling it extends more and more accurately than my LCD-Xs, lol.

 Anyhow, I would highly recommend anyone the Benchmark DAC2 + V281 combination, it's just awesome!

 Cheers!


----------



## Zkadoush

project86 said:


> I'm no fan of the Benchmark DAC 1 (too brittle for me), but their DAC 2 is very nice. And I also agree that the Exasound stuff is quite good as well (and under appreciated). Plenty of excellent stuff to choose from.
> 
> I've been using the Resonessence Labs Invicta Mirus, the Exogal Comet, and the NuPrime DAC-10H in about equal measure. Also the Parasound Zdac v2, which is a lot of bang for the buck. I like how V281 brings out the subtle differences among all these models.


 
 I have a Benchmark DAC2 DX + V281 combo, and the level of detail and refined articulation is simply staggering. Especially with my HD800s.

 Benchmark's DAC2 HGC series is an extremely priceworthy option for a state of the art D/A converter. The DAC2 series has almost unrivaled performance and comes with really solid features, several of which are unavailable with other DACs (such as their Hybrid Gain Control, 3,5 dB extra high headroom 32-bit DSP, etc.), and that clearly put it in a class of its own.

 My only quibble with my DAC2 DX is that, although Benchmark lists "Low-Impedance Passive Output Attenuators" among its features, this is not quite the case. The 10dB attenuation has a 425 Ohm output impedance, and the 20 dB attenuation has a 135 Ohm output impedance. The otherwise great BYPASS mode for the DAC2's volume control, that can be locked using the output bus for the balanced outputs has a default +24 dB output, which is a little high for the V281's max +21 dB balanced input.

 Fried suggested I use the DAC2 - in variable mode - with 20 dB attenuators to avoid hitting the + 24 dB, and to avoid the relatively high 425 Ohm output impedance of the DAC2's 10 dB attenuators, and use the V281's own gain adjustments to compensate. Fried also mentioned that the high output impedance could make the cables more prone to hiss and hum. I tried both attenuators and couldn't detect any hum or noise, so I went with the 10 dB attenuators, which keep the max output of the balanced outputs at +14 dB.

 The balanced inputs of the V281 have a 10k Ohms input impedance, which makes the 425 Ohms output impedance of the DAC2 more than 20 times lower, and going by the rule of thumb 10:1 input/output ratio, I'm still well in the clear with the 10 dB attenuators 425 Ohms output impedance. I also think both components are well grounded and should reject any hum or hiss.

 Fried also mentioned that the +24 dB output of the Benchmark in BYPASS mode won't by any means damage the circuitry of the V281, but that there can be distortion by maximum levels.
 I am currently using the DAC2 in variable mode with the volume pot fully clockwise, and regulating volume with the V281. I have no issues whatsoever with distortion, and I have plenty of headroom for more quiet classical location recordings with little or no compression.

 I definitely recommend Benchmark's DAC2 series, which also - with exception of the DAC2 L - feature Benchmak's excellent HPA2 0 Ohm headphone Amp. I can enjoy my HD800s directly from the headphone outputs of the Benchmark, but even more so from the V281. My LCD-Xs also sound fantastic directly from the DAC2, but better from the V281. The bass of my HD800s from the V281's headphone outputs is just astonishing and keeps surprising me. I almost have a feeling it extends more and more accurately than my LCD-Xs, lol.

 Anyhow, I would highly recommend anyone the Benchmark DAC2 + V281 combination, it's just awesome!

 Cheers!


----------



## project86

I find the audiophile reaction to Benchmark's products a little weird. Many people loved the DAC1 when it first came out. John Atkinson of Stereophile did an extremely positive review and used it as a reference for many years. Tons of other people considered it affordable state of the art. Yet somewhere in there, some of us started noticing it was a bit lean, brittle, and thin sounding. There was a bit of backlash I think, which wasn't helped by Benchmark's views on asynchronous USB.... they essentially called it unnecessary, with lots of technical explanations as to why that was the case. Yet on the DAC2, USB is async, so there you go.
  
 I think the DAC2 is a whole different animal compared to the DAC1. Anyone who found the original somewhat hard to listen to (as I do) should not hold that against the DAC2. It's very, very good.


----------



## LFC_SL

Noticed bias of dac1 on first listen and knew would never want to own, but just goes to show different taste and perception


----------



## Zkadoush

I think that the discourse with which Benchmark positioned itself regarding the whole asynchronous vs adaptive debate, had more to do with debunking the snake oil propagated by audiophile circles, and especially by people like Gordon Rankin - who also had his dog in the fight - that defended async as radically superior to adaptive, and for completely bogus reasons.

 It would appear opportunistic coming from Benchmark to include the asynchronous pitch when listing the features and technologies of the new DAC2 series - just like including DSD capabilities (Fried Reim, for example, couldn't care less about DSD) - , but I wouldn't really read much irony into that, since Benchmark does things for clear reasons that they argue and support very well, and they have consistently been a lot more serious than most of their competitors when it comes to the science and engineering, and thus also towards their customers. You can find Benchmark's position on Asynchronous in several of their application notes and white papers published on their website.

 I totally agree with many that at some point manufacturers cave in to the demands and often false opinions of consumers and audiophile BS, and the fact that Benchmark provided DSD capabilities with their DAC2 series certainly appears to be one of these kind of concessions. They are very consequent and careful about the inclusion of DSD capabilities though, as they've made clear they don't recommend or support DSD as a format for recording, but don't discard it for distribution. None of their A/D converters does DSD, for example.

 This of course goes against the whole DSD craze, which is all about the superiority of native DSD recordings, but it serves the purpose of giving the consumer the option to play native DSD files if that's what he or she wants. Benchmark isn't catering to the snake oil of the DSD community, but considering the versatility of their DACs in the hands of the average user. They don't deny a format that still exists, but that I would agree with Fried Reim, is dead - and much more than vinyl. They include the ability to reproduce native DSD files without necessarily endorsing the DSD snake oil regarding DSD as superior to PCM as a recording format.

 Both DSD and Vinyl formats represent current marketing and sales strategies, nothing else. As market trends, they will both most likely go as quickly as they caught on, once they don't represent more sales.

 For reference about Benchmark's position regarding DSD:

 http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=74
  
 Especially the 1st comment made by John Siau


----------



## Zkadoush

project86 said:


> Not sure how much they want it to be public knowledge at this stage.... but yes, new stuff coming from Violectric sooner than later. The obvious, which we all saw coming (and I believe has been discussed here many pages ago), is a refreshed V800. The other is something altogether different....
> 
> Expect high-res USB using an XMOS solution rather than the Tenor chip as used by the current USB cards. There was talk of an exchange program to swap out USB cards for those users currently experiencing issues. But I don't have any other details about that. Personally I had zero issues with the 24/192 DAC card in the V281.


 

 You're right, I wouldn't be so sure about just how much Violectric would like to be public about their upcoming components at this stage, but I do know about some very interesting and promising new additions to their already great line of products. There's an upgrade of their V800 DAC coming up, but Fried has mentioned this in the past, as well as a less expensive version with less features but with the same performance. It will very much be worth it from the few details that I know. There's another component which I don't recall Fried mentioning in this thread, so I'll just leave it at that and say that it will also be very much worth it. Let's see if Fried himself brings the good news in the near future. I'm sure interested in the V800 upgrade.


----------



## gonzfi

I've just added a NAD M51 into my chain and the output through my V281 is truly amazing. This was instead of waiting for Violectrics new DAC. Highly highly recommended.


----------



## Zkadoush

gonzfi said:


> I've just added a NAD M51 into my chain and the output through my V281 is truly amazing. This was instead of waiting for Violectrics new DAC. Highly highly recommended.


 

 The M51 ia an awesome DAC, it was on my shortlist before I got the Benchmark DAC2 DX; I just got the Benchmark for difference in features, as the NAD costs roughly the same as my DAC2 DX and is also up there with the few state of the art - ENOB 21 - DACs, like the Anedio D2, the Resonessence Mirus, or the Weiss DAC 202.


----------



## fdg

Hello There.
  
 Most of you know that we have to face some problems concerning our 24/192 USB drivers.
 We voted for the “Tenor” Chip-Set for our 24/192 USB solution because we had good
 experience with the 24/96 USB solution from this manufacturer.
 “Tenor” seems to be a chips fab, they got no own web site and the only contact to purchase
 the silicon is (was) through a company called “GFEC”.
 Well, everybody who has the experience knows that dealing with Asian companies is not so easy.
 You need at least 10 times more emails than with companies coming from Europe or the USA to deal with them.
 But finally we got the 24/192 USB chips and also the drivers.
  
 Out of a sudden by the end of 2014 they discontinued the production of the chips and the software support …
 We, as well as many others, had been left outside standing in the rain.

 The current drivers work with Linux, Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, except 8.1 and with all Mac OS except “Yosemite” .

 I am glad to report that there is now a working solution for Mac OS-X “Yosemite” that can be downloaded from the VIOLECTRIC web site.

 I am sorry to tell that there is still no solution in sight for Windows 8.1

 Best regards,

 Fried Reim
 CEO of Lake People


----------



## mulder01

Is this also the case for the 24/96 usb dacs?


----------



## Zkadoush

mulder01 said:


> Is this also the case for the 24/96 usb dacs?


 

 My V100 with TE7022 24/96 DAC module still working fine on Yosemite. Guess the download driver for Mac is for the newer 24/192 DAC chip in the recent V220 & V281 Amps.


----------



## project86

I think the older 24/96 chipset runs on Mac without drivers. Only the newer 24/192 version needs drivers regardless, whether on PC or Mac, and whether it is found on a V200 or V800 or whatever.


----------



## mulder01

I was wondering because I nearly bought a v800 but have just got a surface pro 3 as my new pc which is running Windows 8.1.  
  
 If the 24/96 version runs without drivers but the 24/192 version doesn't, then I'd have to make sure I went for the 24/96 version (not an issue because all my music is 16/44.1).
  
 I just wanted to make sure this was the case, and that the 24/96 version would run on windows 8.1


----------



## project86

I suspect it would be fine - don't recall hearing about issues with the TE7022 USB chip as used in that version. And I think we would hear since that was a very popular chip for a while there. But I could be wrong. Maybe shoot Violectric an email? Surely they will have tested.


----------



## fdg

Again,
  
 the problems we had to face had been the drivers for *24/192 USB* (Tenor 8802).
 By now everything is working fine with Linux, all Mac OS and Windows XP, Vista, 7 and 8 - except Windows 8.1 - here we don´t have any solution.
 Also I fear that there will be no solution for the upcoming Windows 10.
  
 Concerning USB 24/96 (Tenor 7022) we haven´t heard of any issues.
  
 So, when you don´t want to listen to 192k files there is definetely no need for the 192k USB inside V800.
 Due to the resampling feature of DAC V800 the quality of the 96k USB is the same up to 96 kHz.

 Concerning our headphone amps the USB DAC soundcard also carries the D/A converters.
 And the converters from the 192k USB solution are better than the ones from the 96k USB.
 For trouble free operation and no hassle with any drivers I would recommend the 192k soundcard with coaxial input (COAX 24/192).

 Thank you
  
 Fried


----------



## rx79ez08

fdg said:


> Again,
> 
> the problems we had to face had been the drivers for *24/192 USB* (Tenor 8802).
> By now everything is working fine with Linux, all Mac OS and Windows XP, Vista, 7 and 8 - except Windows 8.1 - here we don´t have any solution.
> ...


 
 Hi Fried,
  
 Can you comment on what should people who have the USB DAC installed in their amp do? Should they buy a new DAC if they want to use it with a newer operating system?


----------



## lunz

To Fried and others,
  
 Could you help me find the drivers for Mac OSX ?
 They were previously on this page: http://www.lake-people.de/violectric-others.html , but now I only find the drivers for Windows.
  
  
 I found it on Violectric USA: http://violectric-usa.com/downloads, but not on the main .de site.


----------



## fdg

@ lunz

 Sorry!
  
 Now the new Mac OS-X download is also available on the Voiectric.de web site.

 To all those who feel uncomfortable with the current situation with the Tenor 8022 chip set (like we do):
 There will be new 192k USB interfaces based on X-Mos technology for the DAC converter(s) and the headphone amps coming soon.
 These will be interchangeable with the current makes.
  
 Fried Reim


----------



## FredrikT92

So the Mjolnir is indeed too bright with my LCD-X, I get tired kinda quickly, it actually sort of like listening to HD800 from a SS amp. 
 Will the V281 give me that more warmer sound or?


----------



## project86

fredrikt92 said:


> So the Mjolnir is indeed too bright with my LCD-X, I get tired kinda quickly, it actually sort of like listening to HD800 from a SS amp.
> Will the V281 give me that more warmer sound or?


 
  
  
 That's my complaint about the Mjolnir as well - an otherwise enjoyable amp. V281 is far less fatiguing imho. It's not dark, rolled off, etc, but just smoother in its presentation.


----------



## ghostchili

fredrikt92 said:


> So the Mjolnir is indeed too bright with my LCD-X, I get tired kinda quickly, it actually sort of like listening to HD800 from a SS amp.
> Will the V281 give me that more warmer sound or?




I have the LCD-X and I am not a fan of brightness. The LCD-X is defiantly not too bright on the V281, my HiFiman HE-560s are brighter headphones that the LCD-X and I enjoy those on the V281 as well. I will have the HD800s back in a few weeks, it will be interesting to hear them an the V281. I can't handle the HD800s for long periods and usually only use them for A B comparisons on different gear. I find the V281 pretty transparent so your source and DAC will play a bigger role in the sound your hearing. The V281 won't add brightness, a touch of warmth, maybe.


----------



## FredrikT92

But is it worth almost double the price of a V200?


----------



## project86

ghostchili said:


> I have the LCD-X and I am not a fan of brightness. The LCD-X is defiantly not too bright on the V281, my HiFiman HE-560s are brighter headphones that the LCD-X and I enjoy those on the V281 as well. I will have the HD800s back in a few weeks, it will be interesting to hear them an the V281. I can't handle the HD800s for long periods and usually only use them for A B comparisons on different gear. I find the V281 pretty transparent so your source and DAC will play a bigger role in the sound your hearing. The V281 won't add brightness, a touch of warmth, maybe.


 
  
 To my ears, even HD800 is tolerable for long term listening, when driven by V281. It's a great combo. 
  


fredrikt92 said:


> But is it worth almost double the price of a V200?


 
  
 "Worth it" is always difficult to quantify. It's definitely not twice as good as V200. And the V200 isn't twice as good as the Lake People G109S which is roughly half the price. And the G109 isn't twice as good as the Matrix M-Stage which, again, is roughly half the price.....
  
 So it seems that whenever we double the price we get less bang for the buck, in a manner of speaking. And yet, I suspect most people would enjoy the G109 more than the M-Stage, and the V200 even more, and the V281 even more.
  
 Is it "worth it"? That depends on your financial situation, your associated equipment, the music being played, your listening style, and the headphones you might use. For me the answer is YES!


----------



## FredrikT92

I'm pretty stingy, cause I have alot of hobbies... Motocross, skateboarding, snowboarding... So if there isent easly noticeable difference, I will not bother. 
 LCD-X is my only cans, and most likly it will be my only cans too (I dont like having many options ), so the only reason to get the V281 is because of the balanced mode, and ofc, if the sound is that noticeable more excellent. 
  
 I dont have the "best" DAC, an Arcam irDAC, but then I havent heard a DAC which was worth many times the price. Heck I owned a Audio GD M7 for some months, but sold it cause it simply wasent much difference at all, in fact, the irDAC was better at certain things, like imaging for example.
 And yes I bought the M7 used!  
  
 So if V281 is 100%, V200 is like 90%? 
 Help me out!


----------



## project86

Sorry, still very difficult to answer. It's kinda like asking how much better your LCD-X is compared to an LCD-2..... ask ten people, you'll probably get ten different answers. 
  
 For me, the V200 is maybe 85% of the V200. Sometimes maybe even 90% (with certain easy to drive headphones), but other times dropping a lot lower to below 50% (like driving HE-6). So..... it's really hard to say.


----------



## mulder01

I always thought the LCD-X was a pretty easy can to drive so you may not need a monster amp at all...  If that is your only headphone, they are pretty much Audeze's portable LCD because of their great efficiency.  If money is a major concern, I think you could get away with a lesser amp.  I ended up buying a v281 because I have a power hungry abyss (and it performs brilliantly), but very nearly bought the LCD-X instead so I could comfortably power them off a portable and wouldn't need a big desktop amp.  Just my opinion though - it _is_ a great amp, but maybe not necessary for you?


----------



## FredrikT92

Doesn't Audeze sound better with much power tho? They get more omph down low and dynamics. Atleast that was my impressions from the lcd 2. 
Obviously, I'd like to get the most out of lcd x as cheap as possible


----------



## mulder01

I know the LCD-3 scales a bit more with a better amp but I think the LCD-X is to a lesser extent.  When I auditioned the X, I listened to it on an ALO portable rx mk3.  The salesman told me to put it on high gain and with the volume knob at only about 10:00, I pressed play and it nearly blew my head off.  I found myself using the volume knob well under half way even on medium gain.  And that's off a portable.  
  
 Don't get me wrong, I really like this amp, and I've read a bunch of other people use it with their LCD-X.  It's a great sounding amp, and a great looking amp, and if you ever changed your headphones, you could just keep using the v281 because it's nice and transparent, and can handle pretty much anything you plug into it.  But if you have an LCD-X ONLY and price is a fairly big concern, maybe it's overkill??  I would have bought a lesser amp if I ended up buying the X.  But hey, just my opinion - I am more of a headphone man than an amp man too, so don't necessarily listen to me   (I'm assuming you've already asked the question in the LCD-X thread?)


----------



## Zkadoush

fredrikt92 said:


> I'm pretty stingy, cause I have alot of hobbies... Motocross, skateboarding, snowboarding... So if there isent easly noticeable difference, I will not bother.
> LCD-X is my only cans, and most likly it will be my only cans too (I dont like having many options ), so the only reason to get the V281 is because of the balanced mode, and ofc, if the sound is that noticeable more excellent.
> 
> I dont have the "best" DAC, an Arcam irDAC, but then I havent heard a DAC which was worth many times the price. Heck I owned a Audio GD M7 for some months, but sold it cause it simply wasent much difference at all, in fact, the irDAC was better at certain things, like imaging for example.
> ...


 

 Hi FredrikT92,

 As mulder01 correctly pointed out, the LCD-X is "a pretty easy can to drive so you may not need a monster amp at all." I would tell you exactly the same. I have a pair of LCD-Xs and a V281, and you definitely don't need a V281 to drive a pair of LCD-X, let alone a V200. I still have my V100, which is more than enough to drive my LCD-X; even my Laptop and iPod can drive them to very uncomfortable levels.

 If you want a balanced output you could also consider the V181. I'd say the difference between single ended and balanced with the V281 is there, but it's subtle and I don't know if it's worth the extra money for a pair of LCD-Xs. If you had a HE-6 I'd say go for it, but not with a LCD-X that is so easy to drive.

 You mentioned that the Mjolnir is too bright for your taste, so I'm not so sure I would recommend you something like my Benchmark DAC2 DX - that many complain is too bright - or an Anedio D2. But for the money, the Benchmark and the Anedio D2 give you a state of the art DAC and Headphone Amp, and the Anedio is less than $200 USD more than a V200 without DAC module (unless you get a refurbished one for $990 USD). Also I would wait until Violectric replaces the current Tenor DAC chips until I considered a V200 with a DAC module as an option.

 I do find both my V100 and V281 slightly warmer than my DAC2, but from a volume perspective, the DAC2 is more than enough, and both the Benchmark and the Anedio offer internal jumpers that allow you to set a higher gain in the very unlikely case that you felt they aren't getting loud enough. Nevertheless, I love my LCD-X right out of my DAC2, and just for convenience I sometimes just use my DAC2 to drive them without finding it to be too bright or having any quibbles in that direction. What I feel the Benchmark can't do is the bass that both my Violectrics do, but aside from that, I could totally live with a DAC2 + LCD-X combo if I had no intentions of getting another pair of headphones.

 Depending on where you live, I would recommend you to audition a Benchmark DAC2. Anedio offers a 14 day risk free evaluation if you're in the US. It's hard to get anything better for the money than the Benchmark DAC2 or the Anedio D2. Going for a V200 or V100 + a DAC would set you back a lot more. But if money isn't an issue, I would go for the V200 and a Anedio D2 or Benchmark DAC2 L (withouh headphone Amp) or wait for the upgrade of the V800 DAC.

 Hope to have been of some help.

 Cheers!


----------



## FredrikT92

I dont want to loose the great qualities the Mjolnir give, like dynamics and fun.
 So I dont want to downgrade obviously, I just want less brightness.  But I guess to get such,  V281 and Ragnarok is the only solid options?


----------



## rnsto

fredrikt92 said:


> I dont want to loose the great qualities the Mjolnir give, like dynamics and fun.
> So I dont want to downgrade obviously, I just want less brightness.  But I guess to get such,  V281 and Ragnarok is the only solid options?


 

 as an owner of both the Lcd.Xand the Violectric Hpa 281 i can tell you that you get more of everything with more air and control.
 It's easier to listen ,fuller
 this is also because of running balanced.
 This is  also compared to the mjolnir.
 hope this helped you.
 no regrets here


----------



## project86

I think V281 is _more_ dynamic than the Mjolnir, and certainly more fun (for me) to use! It's just not so glaring up top. 
  
 Of course there are other great options to consider. GSX, Taurus, various tube amps from Eddie Current, DNA, Icon, etc.


----------



## FredrikT92

I can only get the hold of amps from Schiit, Violectric and Auralic, unfortunaly.
 Else I have to order from US and pay tons of taxes and shipping 
  
@project86:
  
 You who have heard both LCD-X and LCD-3F, how do they compare when it comes to engagment/intimate with the V281 or Auralic?
 Althought the LCD-X is better then the LCD-2 overall, I kinda miss getting "dragged" into the music!
 But maybe that will change with a amp swap?


----------



## project86

I think the LCD-3F is mostly balanced (compared to my pre-Fazor LCD-2 for example), with a slight leaning towards lush, dynamic, musical sound.
  
 LCD-X is more analytical and has even less of that slight leaning (practically none, unless you compare directly to H800 for example). 
  
 I'd definitely use the V281 with LCD-X to get a more engaging, inviting sound. LCD-3F I could go either way.... Taurus would be a little more energetic, while V281 would be smoother, more muscular. 
  
 If you aren't loving the LCD-X now, an amp probably won't change it. But if you are on the fence, a different amp might tip the scales just enough to enjoy it.


----------



## Zkadoush

fredrikt92 said:


> I dont want to loose the great qualities the Mjolnir give, like dynamics and fun.
> So I dont want to downgrade obviously, I just want less brightness.  But I guess to get such,  V281 and Ragnarok is the only solid options?


 
 With the LCD-Xs, the V200 will give you the same fun and dynamics as the V281. Not exactly sure what you mean by dynamics, though; SNR is the same in V200 and V281 if that's what you have in mind. The difference between the V200 and the V281 is in the higher output power and output voltage, that's all, you won't get more than that and a balanced output. If you want more gain, you've got plenty of that already in the pre-gain settings of the V100 to blow your brains out on a pair of LCD-Xs.

 There's hence no downgrade whatsoever. The Benchmark and the Anedio are as competent as the other Violectric Amps mentioned above when it comes to driving the LCD-Xs, the difference is in sound signature: where the Violectrics offer more bass and a slight warmth, the Benchmark and Anedio offer more detail retrieval and articulation, as they are also state of the art DACs - an all-in-one solution hard to beat at that price and for your particular headphones.

 The V281 has a lot more output power and voltage, and is a solution for cans like the Abyss, the HE-6, AKG-1000, etc. Not for a pair of LCD-X that are made to be driven by an iPod. More power will not make any difference in sound quality! I would also dare to say that the balanced output of the V181 is - within the same argument - going to give you the qualitative advantage of the balanced output of the V281, as the extra power of the V281 is not at all needed to drive a pair of LCD-Xs.

 I can't get past the 5 first marks of the V281's volume pot with my LCD-Xs (without touching the pre-gain dip switches), and rarely need to go beyond 12 o'clock on my DAC2-DX. I can also not get past 3 o'clock with most recordings using my HD800s on my DAC2-DX. I can't even get to max volume on my iPod with my LCD-Xs! The V200 is a fantastic Amp, with specs that probably make it THE reference out there, and the substantial improvements of the V220 and V281, are in adding a couple of V200s for balanced configuration, a larger power supply and the volume pots. Aside from that, the V200 design is intact. I would say the most significant upgrade are the potentiometers that Violectric has added to the V220 and V281.

 My intention is not to disuade you from buying the V281, it's probably the very best Amp out there in any respect, and it has set the bar impossibly high for anything with any the pretension of rivaling it. My recommendation is very simple: if you absolutely have to have balanced output and an overachieving state of the art headphone Amp, there's way more than enough juice in the V181 to accommodate your LCD-Xs (I can't get past 11 o'clock on my V100 not using any extra gain!). If what you're looking for is a clean Amp and a state of the art D/A converter - and believe me, a good DAC makes ALL the difference - the Anedio or the Benchmark have state of the art headphone Amps as well, yet not with the huge output power and output voltage of the Violectrics, but more than enough for your LCD-Xs, and come at a nearly ridiculous price for the bang they offer. If you don't plan to get any more cans in the future, you're good with the V181, or with the Benchmark or the Anedio. The improvement of the V281 over the V181 and V200 - in my opinion -  come at a very steep price difference for driving just a pair of LCD-Xs. If I had no plans of getting more cans in the future, I would have gone for the V200 + Benchmark DAC2.


 Cheers!


----------



## mulder01

lol there's lots of very valid points over the past dozen or so comments but I feel like we haven't helped you make a decision at all...


----------



## ghostchili

mulder01 said:


> lol there's lots of very valid points over the past dozen or so comments but I feel like we haven't helped you make a decision at all...




The V281 is worth more than double the $ of the V200 as it has 2 improved V200's inside. Since he is only going to be using a LCD-X he doesn't "need" all of the power the V281 has but why buy something that just has enough and strain it all the time. The V281 works well with anything, even IEM's on lower gain settings or the HE-6 on high. It's basically a 1 and done Soild State Amp. And with this hobby, 1 headphone turns into 2 turns into 10. If he truly will only even own the LCD-X and doesn't like the bright sounding amps, and doesn't want the power of the V281, get a balanced tube amp. I wouldn't consider the V200 for my LCD-X after hearing the improvements in the Balanced V281 vs the SE V281 which is basically a single improved V200.


----------



## rnsto

ghostchili said:


> The V281 is worth more than double the $ of the V200 as it has 2 improved V200's inside. Since he is only going to be using a LCD-X he doesn't "need" all of the power the V281 has but why buy something that just has enough and strain it all the time. The V281 works well with anything, even IEM's on lower gain settings or the HE-6 on high. It's basically a 1 and done Soild State Amp. And with this hobby, 1 headphone turns into 2 turns into 10. If he truly will only even own the LCD-X and doesn't like the bright sounding amps, and doesn't want the power of the V281, get a balanced tube amp. I wouldn't consider the V200 for my LCD-X after hearing the improvements in the Balanced V281 vs the SE V281 which is basically a single improved V200.


 

 nicely said !!


----------



## fdg

*Violectric to introduce a new D/A converter: DAC V850*




  

  
  
 Violectric will introduce a new D/A converter during the May 2015 HiEnd exhibition in Munich Germany.
  
 The case and the front panel will share the familiar look of our well known DAC V800.
  
 The DAC V850 features 4 digital inputs: balanced AES/EBU via XLR, coaxial SPDIF via RCA, optical via
 Tos-Link, and Asynchronous USB. All inputs are capable of PCM up to 24 bits at 192 kHz.

*Topology*:

 The digital signal is first routed to re-sampling circuitry where virtually all incoming jitter is eliminated.
 Then up to 4 times up-sampling can be selected from the front panel.
 This process can be completely disabled or set to “best” operation which means that all incoming digital signals will be normalized to 96 kHz.
 We have found this to be the optimal frequency to achieve the best audio quality when re-sampling lower bit rate data.

 A digital output is also provided which mirrors either the active input signal or the digital signal that has been processed by the re-sampler.
 Our design features a 32 bit double mono converter architecture which consists of two 32 bit (PCM1795) converters for each channel.
 This serves to enhance the dynamic range and minimize distortion.

 The analog output circuitry is fully balanced from the D/A converters to the analog outputs.
 This is very similar to the circuitry design we used in the DAC V800 but, with further refinement in the output stage.
 The maximum balanced analog output level may be set internally to +24 / +18 / +15 / +12 / or +6 dBu to ensure a perfect match with your other equipment.
 The unbalanced analog outputs will always be 9 dB lower compared to the balanced output setting.

 The volume control is again all digital just like we used in the DAC V800.
 There is no scratching, no channel imbalance, and no reduced crosstalk which can be the case with an analog volume implementation.
 This is why we prefer digital all the way through our design. Yes, there is some reduced resolution when lowering the volume.
 However since we first up-sample the input to 32 bits we have at least 8 bits with no definitive content.
 This gives us 8 x 6 = 48 dB of gain reduction available to lower the output volume and prevents any degradation of the original digital signal.

 The DAC V850 may be equipped with an optional remote control for volume and input selection.
 A motor driven potentiometer serves to set the attenuation.

 The DAC V850's front panel will be available in *BLACK*  and *SILVER*.

 The estimated price will be around 1175 Euro excl. VAT, the remote control option adds 210 Euro excl. VAT.


----------



## mulder01

So I'm going to ask the obvious question... What is the difference between the V800 and V850?  Same chassis by the look of it
  
 I'm guessing a new chip that we can get drivers for?
 And a usb 24/192 card as standard?  Can the USB card be swapped out if ever a problem like the current driver problem happens again?
 And you say it will be introduced next month - does that mean it's available to buy next month?


----------



## Zkadoush

fdg said:


> *Violectric to introduce a new D/A converter: DAC V850*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 An upgrade is always welcome, especially to an already great performing DAC like the V800. It would be very interesting to know more about the specific differences between the V800 and the V850; both about the technologies that set them apart and the new features. You had also announced a more basic or downsized version of the V800, with less features but with the same performance; will that unit also be coming as a alternative to the V800 DAC?

 You have mentioned before in this thread that both you and John Siau from Benchmark prioritize THD and linearity over SNR. I believe this is an important aspect to understand, could you perhaps elaborate a bit more on that topic?

 Cheers!


----------



## fdg

@ mulder01:
  
 The differences between V800 and V850 are more evolution than revolution.
 I don´t think that there can be a revolution concerning DACs these days.
 But the differences are more than cosmetical.

 First, the base of the USB circuitry is not Tenor any more but X-Mos based.
 So we are sure to have a software support also for upcoming OS like Windows 10.

 Second, we now have a double-mone architecture with two converters per channel.
 This will not be noticeable in therms of THD or SNR but it sharpens our philosophy "no sound".
 V850 is more open, more detailed, has a bigger and deeper soundstage but still retains a maximum neutrality compared with V800.
 For our opinion all this is not due to the 32 bit deep conversion but has its source in the dual converters per channel and our refined analog output circuitry.
 To be honest, 32 bit deep processing is useful in mixing consoles or other equipment where data is merged, filters and equalisers are set or rooms are created.
 In a D/A converter, at the endpoint of digital data, it is nice to have but nothing more.

 Third, there had been lots of customers asking for a remote control in the past because our D/A served to drive (active) speakers directly.
 DAC V850 offers the opportunity to be remote controlled !
  
 And of course there is a better power supply, better signal tracing and much more details.

 Other things which made V800 famous will remain:
 - The compact size
 - The range of digital inputs
 - The selectable range of resampling
 - The volume control in the digital domain
 - Five different analog output voltage settings without affecting the output impedance
 - Balanced and unbalanced outputs which can be used simultaneously because they have their own drivers
  
  
 @ Zkadoush and others
 ... if somebody would be so kind to open a new thread concerning DAC V850 in "dedicated source components", this would be the right place to further discuss about our new gear.
 As a member of trade I am allowed answer to questions but it is not welcome to open a thread.


----------



## Ultrainferno

fdg said:


> ... if somebody would be so kind to open a new thread concerning DAC V850 in "dedicated source components", this would be the right place to further discuss about our new gear.
> As a member of trade I am allowed answer to questions but it is not welcome to open a thread.


 
  
 Done:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761936/violectric-dac-v850


----------



## snip3r77

I'm reading some mixed response regarding V181, V200 and V281. Would V181 be good enough for LCD-X and maybe my CIEM ?
A lot of SQ difference between 3 of them?

Violectric Audio HPA V181
$999.95

Violectric Audio HPA V220
$1,669.95

Violectric Audio HPA V281
$2,299.95


----------



## zach915m

Someone else will have to chime in as I only have the v281, but I do think volume wise out of single ended outputs they all will be very similar in volume level, it's just that with the 281 you will get more Juice out of balanced. 

I also believe with the gain adjustment system on each you'll Be able to run any kind of headphone/iem you want. Though I haven't tried IEMs on my 281


----------



## mulder01

I only have the v281 as well, but LCD-X and CIEMS are easy to drive.  Probably no need for a powerhouse like the v281.  LCD-X doesn't need a super duper amp to shine either do they?


----------



## rawrster

It's nice to have flexibility in an amp where you don't need to upgrade or get another amp for different headphones or if you plan on getting something difficult to drive in the future.
  
 As far as ciem's go when I had the V200 I didn't feel that I needed a more powerful amp to drive them to their potential.


----------



## Zkadoush

snip3r77 said:


> I'm reading some mixed response regarding V181, V200 and V281. Would V181 be good enough for LCD-X and maybe my CIEM ?
> A lot of SQ difference between 3 of them?
> 
> Violectric Audio HPA V181
> ...


 


 Hi *snip3r77,*

 I would agree with the previous responses of @mulder01 and @rawrster:

 1. You definitely don't need a V281 to drive the LCD-X, AND they will definitely shine with a V200, V100 or V181. I own both a V100 and a V281, as well as a pair of LCD-Xs.
 2. If you are planning to get more headphones in the future,and specifically those that are extremely hard to drive (like HE-6 or AKG K1000), I would certainly recommend a V281, but ONLY in that case. If you're sticking to what you've got now a V200, V181 or V100 will do the job flawlessly; a V281 would be overkill and unnecessary spending.

 In my opinion, the manufacturers that don't have their products available in brick and mortar stores should provide a 30 or 45 day trial periods, to avoid forcing customers to buy blindly, and to avoid a bunch of contradictory opinions - no matter how legitimate they are - and endless threads that can easily end up being more confusing than clarifying. I personally read reviews and did my research for over three months before I finally pulled the trigger on my first Amp (the V100), and I'm still really happy with it and definitely NOT selling it despite having a V281. Things would have been a lot easier if I had had the chance to audition it, and in comparison to the other Amps I had in mind at the time.

 When I bought my V281 I was extremely lucky to bump into a place that had the Auralic Taurus, the Sennheiser HDVD800, the Bryston BHA-1, the WOO WA22, the HIFIMAN EF6, etc, and the complete line of Audeze headphones and the top-tier HIFIMAN headphones, etc, Not to mention a great and passionate head-fier who really knows his gear and is there for you with all the answers. I'm talking about Computer Lounge in Auckland, New Zealand. I was interested in the V281 at the time and they brought it in for me with no compromise, to have the chance to audition it before buying. But that's sadly not the usual case of buying a headphone Amp these days. I just happened to be at the right place at the right time, as I only lived in Auckland for a couple of years. Kudos and greetings to Computer Lounge and the mentioned head-fier.

 My recommendation would always be to listen to the gear before buying, and get to ask all the questions, but from my own experience with the LCD-Xs, the V100 and V281, I would stick to my answer and the ones from mulder01 and rawrstr.

 What I nevertheless would add, is that if you're not considering getting more headphones in the future, then you should definitely consider a DAC/Amp solution like the Anedio D2 DAC and the Benchmark DAC2. Both are state of the art D/A converters and both feature some of the most transparent and clean headphone Amps out there. I regularly listen to my LCD-Xs from my Benchmark DAC2, and it's a truly awesome combo. Both the Anedio and the Benchmark Amps are extremely quiet and you will hear no hiss or hum with even the most sensitive CIEMs. The level of detail with a D/A converter of the caliber of a Benchmark or Anedio is simply amazing, and there's more than enough power to drive both your LCD-Xs and CIEMs. The Anedio goes for less than $1300 and the Benchmark for almost $2000, but comes with some more features. Considering the price of a V200 or V281, both the Anedio and the Benchmark are fantastic deals and bang for your buck in my opinion.

 Hope to have contributed to less confusion.

 Cheers!


----------



## plakat

I can only second what @Zkadoush said... while I do like my V281 I got it for those few headphones that really need some serious power to shine. Most of the time I use the excellent headphone amp built into the DAC2, which is still quite powerful (I think I've even reduced the headphone output gain) and a really good compact all-in-one solution.


----------



## lunz

I would however point out that you get an audible difference between the SE output of the V281 and its Balanced one.
 For the differences you can always look at the reviews. 
 It's true that power wise, a V200 is enough for a LCD-X, but I personally prefer my LCD-2.2 in balanced mode with this gear.
  
 Yet again, if it is only for one headphone, it is up to you.


----------



## Zkadoush

lunz said:


> I would however point out that you get an audible difference between the SE output of the V281 and its Balanced one.
> For the differences you can always look at the reviews.
> It's true that power wise, a V200 is enough for a LCD-X, but I personally prefer my LCD-2.2 in balanced mode with this gear.
> 
> Yet again, if it is only for one headphone, it is up to you.


 

 The audible difference between listening to the LCD-X from a single ended or balanced is theoretically there, and in different grades depending on the headphones used, but the V181 will do the exact same job, and with more than enough power to drive CIEMs and a pair of LCD-Xs.

 In my opinion, the difference in sound quality (articulation, detail, etc.) introduced by a top-tier D/A converter like the Benchmark DAC2, is more significant, audible and worthwhile than that of balanced vs single ended.

 Cheers!


----------



## zach915m

zkadoush said:


> The audible difference between listening to the LCD-X from a single ended or balanced is theoretically there, and in different grades depending on the headphones used, but the V181 will do the exact same job, and with more than enough power to drive CIEMs and a pair of LCD-Xs.
> 
> In my opinion, the difference in sound quality (articulation, detail, etc.) introduced by a top-tier D/A converter like the Benchmark DAC2, is more significant, audible and worthwhile than that of balanced vs single ended.
> 
> Cheers!


 

 I actually really enjoy having the option of single ended vs balanced on the 281.  They do have slightly different flavors, and on headphones that are brighter I really like the single ended output for it's smooth powerful sound.  Others who have checked out my amp have agreed, it's kinda cool that they differ in presentation slightly.
  
 Agreed on the DAC though, much more of a change there VS switching between the two jacks on the 281.


----------



## Spamateur

zach915m said:


> I actually really enjoy having the option of single ended vs balanced on the 281.  They do have slightly different flavors, and on headphones that are brighter I really like the single ended output for it's smooth powerful sound.  Others who have checked out my amp have agreed, it's kinda cool that they differ in presentation slightly.
> 
> Agreed on the DAC though, much more of a change there VS switching between the two jacks on the 281.


 
 I had the same experience with an Oppo HA-1 and my LCD-X. The balanced output was noticeably brighter and more detailed, but the single-ended was more linear with better bass response. I didn't realize that the difference would be that significant between balanced and SE, so it was a bit of a shock.


----------



## project86

spamateur said:


> I had the same experience with an Oppo HA-1 and my LCD-X. The balanced output was noticeably brighter and more detailed, but the single-ended was more linear with better bass response. I didn't realize that the difference would be that significant between balanced and SE, so it was a bit of a shock.


 
  
  
 Yeah, it can vary from amp to amp though. Some amps are basically the same exact output rewired for XLR, while others like V281, Taurus, etc have a different character on each jack. It depends on the topology.
  
 Personally I like when both outputs sound a little different.


----------



## Spamateur

project86 said:


> Yeah, it can vary from amp to amp though. Some amps are basically the same exact output rewired for XLR, while others like V281, Taurus, etc have a different character on each jack. It depends on the topology.
> 
> Personally I like when both outputs sound a little different.


 
 Makes sense. I was noticing in several of your reviews that you actually pointed out the differences between the outputs, and I found that quite interesting. Not to get too off-topic here, but it seemed like from your review of the BMC PureDAC it was a huge difference due to how high-impedance the SE output was.
  
 Btw, I've read so many of your reviews that they've been instrumental in helping me choose a new DAC/amp setup. I specifically ended up with a V220 after your V200 review, so thanks for being one of the best reviewers out there in terms of giving a detailed and accurate description of many of the options I was looking at.


----------



## project86

Thanks! Happy to be helpful.
  
 The BMC PureDAC is a prime example. That device has a balanced design which culminates in a balanced headphone out. Great, right? But having _only_ a balanced headphone out would alienate a huge number of users, so they slammed an SE jack on there as well. It's a rather compromised solution (designer told me himself) and is one of the first things they changed when designing the UltraDAC, which is the next model above PureDAC in the lineup. 
  
 Some amps that are truly balanced sound pretty mediocre when used in single-ended mode. It only uses half the amp, and the result just isn't impressive. Thankfully each half of the V281 is essentially a V220, which itself is an improved V200.... so we are starting from a very good foundation. I wouldn't buy a V281 if I ONLY intended to use the 1/4" jacks, as that would be wasteful... but if I need to use it in some cases, I know it sounds excellent.


----------



## leithen

xenophon said:


> I own a HD-800 and a V200, also auditioned a conductor.  Both are fine amps* and the HD-800 are great headphones but as always, it all depends on what you prefer.  I found the Conductor to be very 'fast' and crisp/clear, very detailed.  Those are things I tend to like as a matter of personal taste; by comparison I found the V200 to be less detailed and warmer. Especially in the top end I'm not really sold on it.   But I can imagine that for some people, headphones like the HD-800 combined with the conductor might be too much and tend toward a strident, unengaging, clinical rendition of music without 'soul'.  The V200 takes the HD-800 down a notch imo, wether that's a good thing or not is a matter of opinion and taste.
> 
> An analogy with another amp I own (the F5-clone):  it's possible to adjust the bias of that one to lowest distortion (using a signal generator and a scope, not by ear) but the large majority of listeners will prefer the sound that has a bit more distortion in it.  The conductor would be that amp, dialed to minimum distortion, the V200 the same with a bit more 2nd and 3rd harmonic in it.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for this - very helpful for me.


----------



## snip3r77

zkadoush said:


> Hi *snip3r77,*
> 
> 
> I would agree with the previous responses of @mulder01 and @rawrster:
> ...




I went to the webbie and seems like there isn't a comparator between models.

If one go by dollar and cent, the v281 should be better as compared to v100. Of course I do not mind to pay lesser for the same sound if I'm only using the LCD-X. I don't think I would go for the HE-6 at most I feel it would be HD800 to compliment my LCD-X. What do you guys think?

How do the vioelectric compare to the top dogs like master 9. gs X mk2 etc

Thanks. 

Sorry for so many questions


----------



## Zkadoush

snip3r77 said:


> I went to the webbie and seems like there isn't a comparator between models.
> 
> If one go by dollar and cent, the v281 should be better as compared to v100. Of course I do not mind to pay lesser for the same sound if I'm only using the LCD-X. I don't think I would go for the HE-6 at most I feel it would be HD800 to compliment my LCD-X. What do you guys think?
> 
> ...


 


 Hi snip3r77,

 I have unfortunately not had the chance to audition the Master 9, and only listened to the GS-X - not the Mk II - a couple of years ago.

 When it comes to listed specs, the V100,V200, V220 & V281 all measure better than the Master 9 and the GS-X. There are currently no specs or pics for the GS-X Mk II on the Headamp website. On the other hand, the specs of both Master 9 and GS-X are incomplete and don't show clear relative values for a fair comparison. Violectric's specs are more complete and correctly specify relative values for all measurements and specs.

 There is a comparison chart for the V200, V220 and V281 on the first and eleventh page of this thread, that could be of some help. The difference between the V100 and V200 is output power, damping factor, and crosstalk, the rest is the same. Both the V100 and V200 have better specified performance than the V220 and V281, and the reason why, was explained by Violectric's Fried Reim as follows (when I asked him on page 18 of this thread):

 "Hello Zkadoush,
  
 not only you but also some others are a bit puzzled of the specs from V220 / V281 compared with V200.
  
 V200 is a headphone amp with perhaps the best data a headphone amp can have.
 This is because inside the case of V200 there is nothing but a headphone amp and so no additional circuitry may aggravate the performance.
  
 Inside V220 there is about 3 times the components of V200 with lots of nice features and we managed to keep the nearly perfect overall performance except the output impedance which was 0,083 Ohms with V200 and no has risen by 0,017 Ohms to 0,1 Ohm for V220.
 There are some minor issues concerning the crosstalk ... to be honest, don't care about crosstalk as long as it is better than 60 dB !!
 There are some people out there preferring "crossfeed" to minimize crosstalk to 10 - 20 dB."

 The V100 and V200 are truly some of the best engineered headphone Amps out there, if not THE best, and all the Violectric headphone amplifiers measure better than both Headamp or Audio-GD's Amps with available listed specs. The listed specs provided by Violectric are more detailed, correctly specified, and thus more reliable.

 Going back to my previous suggestion to give the Benchmark DAC2 or the Anedio D2 DAC a chance as a possible D/A Converter AND Amp for your LCD-Xs, the Benchmark DAC 2 is also capable of driving my HD 800s to more than satisfactory levels. My insistent defense of the Benchmark or the Anedio as great all-in-one solutions that include state of the art DACs, certainly begs the question: Why then would I get a V281, why not just a V200 or a Benchmark DAC2 for my LCD-Xs and HD 800s? To which my answer would be that, I do pretend to get more headphones in the future, and because although the Benchmark has more than sufficient oomph for my HD 800s as well, the V281 - and V100 - has a different sound signature, more bass and, well, more power. There are some recordings that just shine more - to my very personal taste of course - with a V100 or V281 than with the Benchmark, and particularly recordings of Classical music, that are a lot more quiet than Jazz or Rock, electronic music, etc., and that can use a little extra output power and voltage.

 Again, the above is my very personal appreciation and personal preference in sound, and it may well not be yours, or that of other head-fiers. This is the reason why I wrote about the inherent difficulties of shopping for a headphone Amp, when the products aren't anywhere to be auditioned and compared, let alone in good conditions:

 "In my opinion, the manufacturers that don't have their products available in brick and mortar stores should provide a 30 or 45 day trial periods, to avoid forcing customers to buy blindly, and to avoid a bunch of contradictory opinions - no matter how legitimate they are - and endless threads that can easily end up being more confusing than clarifying."

 I seriously believe that manufacturers should make a priority to get their gear to brick and mortar stores where it can be auditioned in the proper conditions. It can be fun or distracting to read head-fi forums and threads, ask questions and give some answers, but actually paying for something that is usually expensive, should occur within different conditions. To shop blindly for several thousands of dollars can't possibly be a healthy thing, and both regulations and guarantees should be present when it comes to purchasing from manufacturers who don't offer other choices. I sincerely hope this changes drastically in the future.

 The poor, incomplete and misleading specs provided by Audio-GD and Headamp - despite the prestige and loyalty they have earned among customers - is a very weak and IMHO unacceptable part of their businesses and marketing strategies. This is something that should be regulated to protect customers, and ultimately benefits manufacturers and fair competition. I'm pretty confident that Audio-GD and Headamp make good Amps, but the specs and info they provide doesn't live up to the loyalty their components have been praised with. When shopping blindly, accurate and correctly specified specs are your best bet.

 And regarding the matter of correctly specified specs, a great and concise article was published by Tyll Herstens at Innefidelity, who is doing a monumental and indeed valuable job by measuring both Headphones and Amps; check it out!:

 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/nwavguys-heaphone-amp-measurement-recommendations

 Cheers!


----------



## Nomax

The Man behind one of the BEST SOUNDING HP AMPS in this CRAZY INDUSTRIE

NOMAX&FRIED REIM





REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nomax, 
  
 did you try those white mice goodies they offered? When I visited the Violectric booth with a friend we raided the whole stock. It was a glorious day.


----------



## jark

Hi all,
 
I'm a proud and happy owner of a brand new Violectric V281. I've been enjoying it for a week now and during that time I've been reading this long but entertaining post. I have a couple of questions but first I would like to share my first impressions. (nothing new than anyone had already said really, but anyway). All my listening so far has been done with an HD800 with balanced output.
 
I pretty much agree with the comments in regards to the sound signature. It has a very pleasant smooth warm sound with the perfect amount of detail, a big enough space presentation (in particular with balanced output) and a breathtaking _almost scary_ black background. Someone said the sound is cavernuos (don't remember exactly who did though), and if I've interpreted that correctly I tend to agree, in the sense that reveals the space in which a recording was made, specially when comes to classical music. You can feel the venue, there is an amazing three dimensionality to the sound. Is like you can hear the space _in between_ the instruments and _around _them. One recording that comes to mind to explain what I'm saying is "Barber: Adagio For Strings, by Leonard Bernstein and Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra. DG". The combination of the HD800 and the V281 is simply magnificent.
 
Now there is a couple of things I would like to ask.
 
- First, is it me, or the V281 needs quite some time, lets say 30/45 min to perform at it best? From cold, the bass is not as detailed and controlled as when the amp has warmed up a bit. And the overall sound is Ok but not as spectacular, or is just me adapting to the sound?
 
- I've found the Balanced output is exponentially better than the single ended ones. I've tried the single ended with a LCD2 fazor and I was not as impressed. (Haven't yet with the HD800) So that brings me to ask what balanced cable would you recommend for the LCD2? I live in Australia so there's not to many options locally (and quite expensive as usual) and ordering online can even be more expensive after conversion rate and shipping cost!
 
- One thing that excited me a lot of the V281 was the fact it has both balanced and RCA inputs which means for the first time I was going to be able to listen to my Clearaudio Concept Turntable and Luxman E-200 Phonostage with Headphones (My SPL Phonitor does not have RCA inputs as you may know). But although I like what I've heard it was not as good than when going full balanced from my NAD M51 Dac. So when using the RCA inputs in the back the Headphone balanced output becomes single ended? (technically I have no idea if that makes sense...) Or is "semi balanced"?
 
- My final question is in regards of the pre-gain jumpers on the back. At the moment I've set them to the default 0.0 gain which translate when using the HD800 (fully balanced through the M51 that has a 4.75V output) to a pleasant volume between 8-9 o'clock. But every single step of the volume nob has a massive increase or decrease in volume impact; for instance going from 8:30 to 8:45 is quite a big jump and I've found difficult to achieve the right volume. That was never an issue with my Phonitor, that doesn't have a stepped nob and it seems I've got used to it. So if I set the jumpers, lets say  to -6 or -12  would that give me more "room" in between steps to get the right volume?
 
Finally, a shot of the V281 taken the spot where the Phonitor used to be...I've thought at one point to sell the Phonitor but I couldn't! I'm too attached.
it is an amazing amp, just different flavour,  so I've decided to keep it and "promoted" it to my bedroom...


----------



## JeffMann

I used the term "cavernous" to describe the sounstage in balanced mode. There is definitely a lot of "air" (black space) in certain recordings, which I find a very desirable feature of the V281 in balanced mode.

I agree that it is difficult to get the exact volume desired if the volume control is between 8-10 o'clock. I can only solve the problem by using the volume control of my Anedio D2 DAC to fine-tune the volume level and I always use a DAC because my system is CD-based. Setting the pre-gain to -12 may give you slightly more room (lesser volume level gradation) between click settings.

Jeff.


----------



## plakat

jark said:


> - One thing that excited me a lot of the V281 was the fact it has both balanced and RCA inputs which means for the first time I was going to be able to listen to my Clearaudio Concept Turntable and Luxman E-200 Phonostage with Headphones (My SPL Phonitor does not have RCA inputs as you may know). But although I like what I've heard it was not as good than when going full balanced from my NAD M51 Dac. So when using the RCA inputs in the back the Headphone balanced output becomes single ended? (technically I have no idea if that makes sense...) Or is "semi balanced"?
> 
> - My final question is in regards of the pre-gain jumpers on the back. At the moment I've set them to the default 0.0 gain which translate when using the HD800 (fully balanced through the M51 that has a 4.75V output) to a pleasant volume between 8-9 o'clock. But every single step of the volume nob has a massive increase or decrease in volume impact; for instance going from 8:30 to 8:45 is quite a big jump and I've found difficult to achieve the right volume. That was never an issue with my Phonitor, that doesn't have a stepped nob and it seems I've got used to it. So if I set the jumpers, lets say  to -6 or -12  would that give me more "room" in between steps to get the right volume?


 
  
 The V281 is not balanced end to end, i.e. just use the inputs that match your setup. XLR inputs give you more flexibility with cable length, but thats about it. The balanced output always uses both amps, regardless of inputs in use.
  
 What do you mean by 'stepped'? No version of the V281 uses a stepped volume control I think... Are you talking about the relais-based version? That one has really fine steps... but maybe try to shift to a different range by setting the input gain to -6 or -12dB.
  
 Nice photo btw.


----------



## jark

jeffmann said:


> I used the term "cavernous" to describe the sounstage in balanced mode. There is definitely a lot of "air" (black space) in certain recordings, which I find a very desirable feature of the V281 in balanced mode.



 
JeffMann, I totally agree with you in regards to the "air" / space that the balance mode can reveal with certain recordings, which is probably the reason why I much more prefer it to the single ended mode.
 
Quote:


> I agree that it is difficult to get the exact volume desired if the volume control is between 8-10 o'clock. I can only solve the problem by using the volume control of my Anedio D2 DAC to fine-tune the volume level and I always use a DAC because my system is CD-based. Setting the pre-gain to -12 may give you slightly more room (lesser volume level gradation) between click settings.
> 
> Jeff.




The M51 also has volume control (digitally) because it can be use as a preamp as well, but wouldn't that affect the overall sound quality? For instance, when using and Astell&Kern device (any of them) as a source, don't we always have to set the volume output to "full" in order not to loose quality? 
I'll do a test and report with the -6 and -12 settings to see if there's more room in between steps.
 
 
Quote:


plakat said:


> The V281 is not balanced end to end, i.e. just use the inputs that match your setup. XLR inputs give you more flexibility with cable length, but thats about it. The balanced output always uses both amps, regardless of inputs in use.



 
So, that means when using the RCA input I'll still notice a sound difference between the balanced and single ended headphone outputs? I thought in order to really get the balance "effect" that you have to go full balance, ie. XLR inputs - XLR headphone output.
 


plakat said:


> What do you mean by 'stepped'? No version of the V281 uses a stepped volume control I think... Are you talking about the relais-based version? That one has really fine steps... but maybe try to shift to a different range by setting the input gain to -6 or -12dB.
> 
> Nice photo btw.



 
By "steps" I mean the volume nob does not have a continues smooth movement (as in the Phonitor and other amps) but little incremental steps....for instance you can go from 8 o'clock to 8:15, 8:30, 8:45 and so on, My point is that each step has a very big impact in Volume.
 
Thanks about the photo!


----------



## project86

jark said:


> The M51 also has volume control (digitally) because it can be use as a preamp as well, but wouldn't that affect the overall sound quality? For instance, when using and Astell&Kern device (any of them) as a source, don't we always have to set the volume output to "full" in order not to loose quality?
> I'll do a test and report with the -6 and -12 settings to see if there's more room in between steps.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your M51 (and many other high quality DACs) can do at least a small or medium amount of attenuation without losing any fidelity. The lower you drop that volume, the more likely it is to have sonic consequences, but 10dB or even 20dB is usually fine. That's not always the case with all DACs and once you hear it you can't "un-hear" it if you know what I mean.
  
 For the AK devices, they are concerned with giving a full scale output so your external amp gets the higher voltage signal it expects. That maximizes signal to noise ratio among other things. It's an analog output so it's not really the same as discussing digital attenuation.
  
 I always recommend playing with RCA and XLR to see if your device changes. I don't hear a difference on the V281 but that assumes a source feeding it which is also identical on RCA and XLR. Not sure about your M51 but it very well could have differences, so it's worth playing with. The V281 will convert your signals back and forth with minimal or zero loss so it's fine if you go XLR in and 1/4" out or RCA in and XLR out. But XLR in and XLR out may end up sounding the best to your ears - which are the only ones that matter in this case.


----------



## project86

Also, don't be afraid to drop to -12dB pregain (the lowest setting). That's where I keep mine most of the time. I find that even with my HE-6, I still have plenty of volume most of the time. Using RCA inputs will allow you to crank the volume higher, with most DACs anyway. Not sure what the RCA output voltage is on your M51. But like I said, go -12dB and knock down a bit of volume on the NAD, you'll find a lot mroe usable volume range.


----------



## jark

Thanks project86 for your comments and recommendations!, I'll give it go and report back


----------



## plakat

jark said:


> By "steps" I mean the volume nob does not have a continues smooth movement (as in the Phonitor and other amps) but little incremental steps....for instance you can go from 8 o'clock to 8:15, 8:30, 8:45 and so on, My point is that each step has a very big impact in Volume.
> 
> Thanks about the photo!


 
  
 Still don't get quite it... the V281 uses an analog volume pot without mechanical steps and only the relay-based volume option converts the analog pots value to a control signal to that relay network. Still you won't feel any steps in the movement on the pot (though the relay switching may give that impression). The steps used in that variant are only 0,75dB, so it should still sound quite smooth (except for some intermittent distortion while moving the pot due to the switching relays).
  
 But be that as it may, I think lowering the input sensitivity might help as you move to another part of the volume pot for your desired level.
  
 Enjoy your new amp -- I think its one of the finest one can buy these days.


----------



## jark

plakat said:


> Still don't get quite it... the V281 uses an analog volume pot without mechanical steps and only the relay-based volume option converts the analog pots value to a control signal to that relay network. Still you won't feel any steps in the movement on the pot (though the relay switching may give that impression). The steps used in that variant are only 0,75dB, so it should still sound quite smooth (except for some intermittent distortion while moving the pot due to the switching relays).
> 
> But be that as it may, I think lowering the input sensitivity might help as you move to another part of the volume pot for your desired level.
> 
> Enjoy your new amp -- I think its one of the finest one can buy these days.




Interesting, maybe your version is different to mine? I have the basic option, with no remote control ( I like to get up from my seat and turn the volume nob manually...ha) and you can clearly feel the steps when turning the nob, exactly 3 "small stops" in between full hours, ie. From 8 to 9 o'clock you get 8:15, 8:30 and 8:45. It's subtle but definitely there, in fact you know you are at 9 or 10 or any o'clock because there's a clear bigger stop not like the phonitor nob or my preamp nob which has a continuos smooth movement with no stops at all...

And yes I'm certainly enjoining this amp, the more I listen the more I like it! It's brilliant!


----------



## rx79ez08

The vc and non vc version (normal version) use different volume control. The normal version use a 24 or 28 steps pot I think.


----------



## jark

rx79ez08 said:


> The vc and non vc version (normal version) use different volume control. The normal version use a 24 or 28 steps pot I think.




I've counted exactly 40 steps in my basic - no remote - version simply by turning the volume nob.


----------



## project86

I'm fairly sure it is the Alps RK27 with the 41 detent option, which is one of several variations they offer. The level 1 volume upgrade gets you the volume controlled RK27 - I had it on the review loaner and it is smooth, no detents/steps.


----------



## Tobes

jark said:


> I've counted exactly 40 steps in my basic - no remote - version simply by turning the volume nob.


 

 I could be incorrect here....but wasn't there a previous posting where the manufacturer stated that positions between the detents can be selected to give finer volume graduations and this won't effect sound quality - ie it's a continuous wiper pot with detent positions _not_ a fixed resistor attenuator.
 The v281 version I owned had the motor controlled Alps pot with smooth continuous operation (no detents).
  
 EDIT - from the manual:
   "_the standard manual control incorporates the above mentioned Alps
 RK 27 potentiometer with a 41-detent to ease the repositioning to a
 specific value / angle. Please note that these detents have nothing to do
 with a stepped attenuator !!!_"
  
 As mentioned above, I can't understand why you don't use the lower pre-gain settings to give more adjustment range on the volume control - that's one of the features of this amp.


----------



## jark

tobes said:


> As mentioned above, I can't understand why you don't use the lower pre-gain settings to give more adjustment range on the volume control - that's one of the features of this amp.




I've followed the recommendations and honestly there's not much off a difference, at least with the HD800. Instead of setting the volume at comfortable levels between 8 to 9:30, now I'm setting it between 9 to 10:30 with pretty much the same boost in between steps...I guess it doesn't really matter and I'll adjust volume more precisely with my M51...

In another matter I've gave a second chance to the LCD2 in single ended mode ( unfortunately I don't have a 4 pin XLR cable and I can't wait to get one!) and is a bit of a disappointment. I don't know if is it because I'm so used to the HD800 sound or what, but in comparison the LCD2 with the V281 is like listening inside a 1x1 meter box. It is very dark, lacks dynamics, excitement, air....to me is almost like claustrophobic and I really hope will improve when balanced!... The thing is I absolutely love the LCD2 paired with my portable ALO "the international" in balanced mode ( small balanced connectors) with my AK120II as a source, so I resist to think will not work with the V281. 

Do you guys prefer the LCD2 balanced with the V281?.... What gain do you set in the back?

Cheers


----------



## lunz

For the LCD-2.2 I always use it in balanced mode, as it adds a welcomed bit of air yes. Never used it single ended since. Note that it is still a warmish combo (Others should have a better input than me)

Gain is at 0. Playing at 12 O'clock


----------



## lunz

John, do you know on what day of next week your review will be released ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I am listening to the HE-1000 in balanced mode on the V281 right now. Not too bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I did expect them to have more bass though, will try the SE out later


----------



## project86

lunz said:


> John, do you know on what day of next week your review will be released ?




I do not know for sure. Probably Thursday or Friday if I had to guess.


----------



## project86

ultrainferno said:


> I am listening to the HE-1000 in balanced mode on the V281 right now. Not too bad
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Me too. I've only had the HE-1000 for a few days but thus far really enjoying it. Especially out of the V281. Not sure about how much bass they are supposed to have, but I don't find them particularly lacking at this point.


----------



## Ultrainferno

project86 said:


> Me too. I've only had the HE-1000 for a few days but thus far really enjoying it. Especially out of the V281. Not sure about how much bass they are supposed to have, but I don't find them particularly lacking at this point.




No extra GAIN I suppose?


----------



## project86

Not sure I understand the question. I have the V281 at -12dB on the pre gain switches, and I have to crank volume up fairly high. Might switch pre gain when I get a chance. 

Man the HE-1000 is so much more comfy than my HE-6 though.


----------



## Ultrainferno

it is very comfy indeed. -12?! Waw


----------



## project86

ultrainferno said:


> it is very comfy indeed. -12?! Waw


 
  
 That's what happens when you listen in the middle of the night while everyone in the house is sleeping. Get yourself a completely quiet house, no traffic outside, etc, and you'd be surprised at how little volume you actually need to enjoy the music.


----------



## bugstone

The Authoritative and Potent Violectric V281 Headphone Amplifier - Inner Fidelity
 By John Grandberg • Posted: Jun 19, 2015  
The Authoritative and Potent Violectric V281 Headphone Amplifier | InnerFidelity
  
 Bugs


----------



## jark

bugstone said:


> The Authoritative and Potent Violectric V281 Headphone Amplifier - Inner Fidelity
> 
> By John Grandberg • Posted: Jun 19, 2015
> 
> ...




What a review! Amazing job project86. I've enjoined reading it a lot! 

Congrats mate.


----------



## project86

Thanks for posting it! I wasn't sure when it would go live, so your link was the first I'd seen of it.
  
 V281 users, feel free to comment there for discussion as well. I know we have a nice thing going here, but if people find that review they won't necessarily be up to speed with everything we've discussed already in this thread (even though I did link to it).


----------



## Tony1110

Great review as usual. Reading it made me want to buy the amp again


----------



## DrKC

I read John's review yesterday.  I'm normally not a huge fan of subjective-only reviews, but this one struck a chord.  We all like to see comments and reviews on things we have spent quite a bit of money on that present a positive spin on the product.  It's human nature - we don't want to feel like we made a serious mistake.
 This review, of course, was very positive and having had my 281 for several months, I found myself talking to myself while reading the review - saying things like "Of course, well that should be obvious, it does do that well, etc".
 It seems that quite a few people like amps that color the sound and John made a statement to that issue and I couldn't agree more - yeah, it has it's novelty, but you want your amp to give you an accurate, neutral and transparent presentation of the music and that's just what the 281 does.  I don't want an active tone control for an amp.
 I agree with what John said about the Mjolnir also.  I have one and it's a excellent amp, but not the 281.
  
 It seems to handle everything well.  I don't listen to iems, but I have low impedance, high sensitivity phones, high impedance phones and low sensitivity planars (LCD-3s and HE-560s).  It just makes them all sound great.  I've fallen hard for my 281 and HE-560s.  The 281 places them ahead of the LCD-3s (pre-fazor model).  If I had to give most everything I had up, I'd be keeping the 281 and the 560s.
  
 John your review characterizes all the things I've been thinking to myself these past few months.  Perhaps with your review at Innerfidelity, word will get out about this wonderful amp.  More people will have a chance to hear what has become my end-of-the-trail amp.
 Thanks for a solid look at the 281 and not pulling any punches with regard to more expensive offerings - I found that refreshing.


----------



## Ultrainferno

The V281 simply is a great amp. When reviewers are buying it for themselves that usually means alot. I bought my V281 before I published my review on HFN and it has been my reference amp since.

For the moment I am really loving it with the HE-1000 in balanced mode. But the beauty of the V281 is that is works great with all headphones


----------



## plakat

Very nice review indeed, @project86 . I own the relay-based version as well, don't use it very often nowadays as the DAC2 fulfills all my needs after selling the Abyss (once the reason to get a V281 actually). Reading your review I had to switch it on, using my T1 I had converted to balanced. Indeed  wonderful amp (never use the builtin DAC due to driver problems under OS X). I did not remember it getting so warm though...
  
 Violectric recently switched to a different USB receiver. Now I'm considering getting the updated V850 DAC or a new DAC board for the V281. Should now work with CoreAudio if I understood that correctly.


----------



## project86

drkc said:


> I read John's review yesterday.  I'm normally not a huge fan of subjective-only reviews, but this one struck a chord.  We all like to see comments and reviews on things we have spent quite a bit of money on that present a positive spin on the product.  It's human nature - we don't want to feel like we made a serious mistake.
> This review, of course, was very positive and having had my 281 for several months, I found myself talking to myself while reading the review - saying things like "Of course, well that should be obvious, it does do that well, etc".
> It seems that quite a few people like amps that color the sound and John made a statement to that issue and I couldn't agree more - yeah, it has it's novelty, but you want your amp to give you an accurate, neutral and transparent presentation of the music and that's just what the 281 does.  I don't want an active tone control for an amp.
> I agree with what John said about the Mjolnir also.  I have one and it's a excellent amp, but not the 281.
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Thanks for the kind words - I like to hear that my impressions match that of other experienced listeners. It doesn't always work that way since we all hear differently, but it's nice when it does happen.
  
  


ultrainferno said:


> The V281 simply is a great amp. When reviewers are buying it for themselves that usually means alot. I bought my V281 before I published my review on HFN and it has been my reference amp since.
> 
> For the moment I am really loving it with the HE-1000 in balanced mode. But the beauty of the V281 is that is works great with all headphones


 
  
  
 Agreed!
  
  


plakat said:


> Very nice review indeed, @project86 . I own the relay-based version as well, don't use it very often nowadays as the DAC2 fulfills all my needs after selling the Abyss (once the reason to get a V281 actually). Reading your review I had to switch it on, using my T1 I had converted to balanced. Indeed  wonderful amp (never use the builtin DAC due to driver problems under OS X). I did not remember it getting so warm though...
> 
> Violectric recently switched to a different USB receiver. Now I'm considering getting the updated V850 DAC or a new DAC board for the V281. Should now work with CoreAudio if I understood that correctly.


 
  
  
 Yours gets really warm? Mine stays what I'd call "moderate" where I can feel a temperature increase, but it's not at all what you might think of as "hot". 
  
 If I recall correctly, Violectric is switching to XMOS for the new USB implementations. Which is great news imho.


----------



## plakat

project86 said:


> Yours gets really warm? Mine stays what I'd call "moderate" where I can feel a temperature increase, but it's not at all what you might think of as "hot".
> 
> If I recall correctly, Violectric is switching to XMOS for the new USB implementations. Which is great news imho.


 
  
 I have to add that for some time I had an A4-sized paper catalogue plus an ipad on top of it, before I remembered that it tends to get warm. When I took that off the V281 was much warmer than I expected and did not really cool down for the rest of my listening session. I know it gets warm, moderate may be a good term for the amount of heat. Yesterday it was almost hot on top. It did not activate any protection circuit (and as far as I remember there is a thermal protection).
  
 Today I let it run for some time (2h or something) without anything on top and its just as warm as I remember it getting during use. So I think everything is fine as long as its not covered with anything.
  
 Ad USB: I did not remember the specific chipset, but XMOS sounded familiar. Plus I found a post by Fried that the USB interface of the new V850 is based on that chipset. And as far as I know that should work with CoreAudio without installing a driver. I hope they'll offer boards for the V281 as well.


----------



## rawrster

Nice review as usual.
  
 I as struggling with choosing the V281 or Taurus amps a few months ago. I chose the latter since it is much easier to find it at a discount either from the used market or a dealer display unit. I live in NYC and there are a lot of dealers in Manhattan and I do not know of any that stocks Violectric but the big ones stock Auralic. I am unable to find that with the V281 since Violectric is not very popular and my guess is that they have not sold as many units as the Taurus. 
  
 It does seem the V281 is much more versatile. You can add the option of a dac or the volume control along with the different gains levels which I can't do. If I had a large variety of headphones from easy to difficult to drive the choice may have been extremely difficult since the Taurus although cheaper does not give me the options that a V281 has. 
  
 I wish I had the money to purchase both but I went with the more economical one.


----------



## MP1968

In an earlier post John noted that the Taurus is a little more energetic, while the V281 is a little more muscular and warm, so perhaps he's already more or less answered the question I'm about to pose.  
  
 I have some new LCD3Fs (burned in now), and my amp is an EF6.  Upstream it's a Naim DAC V1 and a laptop.  
  
 So far I've been a little underwhelmed by the LCD3s.  Generally I like their signature, but in my current set up they're sounding a bit 'flabby' (best word I can find).  Not really very dynamic, a bit flat, a bit veiled, lacking in energy. But I do appreciate their warmth and musicality. 
  
 I currently also have HD800s and K812s.  I appreciate that the LCD3 isn't going to have the same precision / definition that the HD800s have, but I do miss some of the details and crispness.  
  
 My understanding is that the EF6 is considered a warmer SS amp.  Hence would a more transparent one improve things?  Here I'm thinking of the Taurus or the V281.  Which of the two is more likely to address the issues I have?
  
 Here in the UK the Taurus can be bought new for £1500, while the V281 is slightly cheaper at £1250.  
  
 Any thoughts appreciated.


----------



## ellevoid

mp1968 said:


> In an earlier post John noted that the Taurus is a little more energetic, while the V281 is a little more muscular and warm, so perhaps he's already more or less answered the question I'm about to pose.
> 
> I have some new LCD3Fs (burned in now), and my amp is an EF6.  Upstream it's a Naim DAC V1 and a laptop.
> 
> ...


 

 I don't understand what is your issue but Taurus MK2 has a brighter / leaner sound compare to V281.


----------



## khollister

I'm very confused after reading this thread - I was set to get a Taurus Mk II, but now I'm torn between it and the V281. My current cans are older HD650's and Oppo PM-3's (purchased primarily to use with my Pono), but I am planning on picking up one or more of PM-1, HD800 or possible LCD-X (concerned about wearability long term). The V281 is probably the clear answer for HD800's, but I'm worried about how it would match the 650's or the PM-1's. 

My source is a Sony HAP-1zES and present interconnects are Cardas Golden Cross. The amp I'm presently using with the Senn's is a Woo WA-2, which I feel is a bit too thick and dark with the tubes I have for the 650's. 

I love the build quality and comfort of the PM-3's and I'm quite pleasantly surprised at the sound quality of them with the Pono. I want to go with the PM-1's due to build, price and comfort but realize they are not the ultimate in neutrality or clarity. I have nowhere to audition any of this stuff where I live, and the frustrating part is the only amp I have (the WA-2), is not suitable for the lower impedance ortho's. I need to pick an amp to even audition cans, but the cans might influence the amp. Of course it is quite possible I could tweak either amp to better match whatever cans I get via cable selection, so maybe I'm over thinking this.

My only hard constraints are solid state, both balanced and single-ended and end-game sound quality. 

Thoughts?

Keith


----------



## Viper2005

khollister said:


> I'm very confused after reading this thread - I was set to get a Taurus Mk II, but now I'm torn between it and the V281. My current cans are older HD650's and Oppo PM-3's (purchased primarily to use with my Pono), but I am planning on picking up one or more of PM-1, HD800 or possible LCD-X (concerned about wearability long term). The V281 is probably the clear answer for HD800's, but I'm worried about how it would match the 650's or the PM-1's.
> 
> My source is a Sony HAP-1zES and present interconnects are Cardas Golden Cross. The amp I'm presently using with the Senn's is a Woo WA-2, which I feel is a bit too thick and dark with the tubes I have for the 650's.
> 
> ...




I find the balanced output of the V281 quite neutral with just a touch of warmth. It is only slightly richer sounding compared to my Ragnarok.
Now, the SE output of the v281 I find quite a bit warmer than the balanced output, almost as warm as my previous v200. So that is the true benefit of the v281, you get two different sounds compared to which type of output you use.
Personally I used the SE out with my HD800s and the Balanced out with my Audeze. And it makes both headphones sound great!
You may need to swap out the Cardas cable though, as I find the cross cables to add quite a bit of warmth and high frequency attenuation to the sound.


----------



## khollister

Yeah, I figured the Cardas cables might have to go.


----------



## Xenophon

viper2005 said:


> I find the balanced output of the V281 quite neutral with just a touch of warmth. It is only slightly richer sounding compared to my Ragnarok.
> Now, the SE output of the v281 I find quite a bit warmer than the balanced output, almost as warm as my previous v200.* So that is the true benefit of the v281, you get two different sounds compared to which type of output you use.*
> Personally I used the SE out with my HD800s and the Balanced out with my Audeze. And it makes both headphones sound great!
> You may need to swap out the Cardas cable though, as I find the cross cables to add quite a bit of warmth and high frequency attenuation to the sound.


 
 Don't own a V281 but I'm not so sure that the part highlighted above is actually a good thing.  Not a cable believer.  The one thing I can tell you, owning a V200 and having tried the Taurus Mk2 (apples and oranges, I agree) is that the Taurus strikes me as more neutral, 'airy' and fast.  All a matter of taste with the cans you own.  Personally I prefer the Taurus (to my V200, to be clear).  It's a bit like the Conductor vs a V800/V200 stack.  Some will prefer one, others the other.  Owning the Vio gear (which I like, don't get me wrong) and for my tastes I think I probably should've gotten the Conductor at the time.


----------



## khollister

Well, I just ordered a V281 to take advantage of the currency discount - hope I don't regret not going with the Taurus. I prefer the McIntosh house sound to say Spectral or Bryston, so I figure I will be happier with the Violectric.


----------



## project86

Sounds like you made the right choice then!


----------



## ellevoid

You made the right choice. For me I don't regret when I sold my Taurus MK2 and bought V281. 
  
 I used it with HE6, LCD3F and HD800. Taurus is very good but I found more enjoyment in music when using V281.


----------



## khollister

Wow - ordered it yesterday (Sunday) and got an email at 5:47 this morning (Monday) with a tracking number! Does Arthur ever sleep?


----------



## galacticsoap

Hey Guys,
  
 Slightly left of field question re: the V281. 
  
 I've got my system chain is:
  
 Aurender N100 > MSB Analog DAC + MSB Analog Powerbase > V281 > Abyss balanced via 4 PIN XLR
  
 I listen to a fair bit of electronica on this rig. I recently picked up a Subpac that I've been using at work and I'm thinking of bringing it home to use in my main system:
  
http://thesubpac.com/order/subpac-s1/
  
 The question I was hoping you guys could answer is if I were to connect the the Subpac to the V281 via one of the Vio's single ended outputs and ran the Abyss via the Balanced 4 pin XLR would I be damaging any thing in my system (extremely important) or in the Subpac (not as important but preferably would like no damage here as well).
  
 Cheers,
 GS


----------



## Revogamer

I can't see you having an issue

The violectric has a big enough psu to allow for all three outputs to be used simultaneously anyway!


----------



## galacticsoap

revogamer said:


> I can't see you having an issue
> 
> The violectric has a big enough psu to allow for all three outputs to be used simultaneously anyway!


 
  
 Thanks mate!  Did i speak to you today on the phone re: the Pavane?
  
 My fear is that the Subpac would present some weird load to the V281 and everything will fall to ****.


----------



## project86

You could also use an RCA to 3.5mm adapter to feed the Subpac from the V281 RCA outputs. That way you could turn it off/on independently from the headphones, using the V281 front panel buttons. It probably doesn't matter either way though, the V281 will handle pretty much anything.


----------



## galacticsoap

Thanks guys - that's exactly what I was going to do. I have a Grado 6.3 to 3.5 adapter which I'll be using with Subpac.


----------



## Revogamer

galacticsoap said:


> Thanks mate!  Did i speak to you today on the phone re: the Pavane?
> 
> My fear is that the Subpac would present some weird load to the V281 and everything will fall to ****.




That is I, hope you like your abyss


----------



## mulder01

Wouldn't the sub pac require a line level input from the unbalanced line out on the back with a 2 x rca to 3.5mm stereo lead?  You wouldn't use an amplified headphone output for that would you?


----------



## galacticsoap

mulder01 said:


> Wouldn't the sub pac require a line level input from the unbalanced line out on the back with a 2 x rca to 3.5mm stereo lead?  You wouldn't use an amplified headphone output for that would you?


 
  
 Mate - I was wondering what damage if any I'd do if I sent the amplified signal from V281 to the Subpac's line-in.
  
 I was effectively doing that from my portable amp (AK240, and later Sony ZX2) but of course the single ended output from the V281 is a different proposition.
  
 Anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## mulder01

I think once it reached a certain volume, the level would be too much for the line in on the sub pac - if you cranked the volume up to say, 1 watt output to power the abyss, I'm sure that's much more than the sub pac wants to receive for a signal.  
  
 I think with the portable players, the maximum output power is around line level anyway, so it doesn't really matter but the vio packs a much bigger punch than that.  I have a aux cable to casette tape thing to plug my ipod into the work van's tape player and if I turn the volume right up on the ipod, it gets really bloated and boomy and cuts out and all sorts of stuff because I guess it's just more signal than the tape head is meant to receive.  It's happy around 2/3 volume.
  
 I may be wrong - someone feel free to correct me, but I'd use the vio's line out if it were me


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Project86,
  
 Any chance you can borrow your fellow Guru's Moon Neo Series 430 HAD Reference and put it up against the V281?
http://headphone.guru/moon-neo-series-430-had-reference-headphone-amplifier-with-optional-dsd32-bit-pcm-dac/
 That thing outputs some serious current if I read the numbers well  looks like a HE-6 favourite? Only listening can tell the real story though. The linked review didn't mention the HE-6, nor a lot of comparisons with other TOTL headphone amps...


----------



## project86

coldassault said:


> Project86,
> 
> Any chance you can borrow your fellow Guru's Moon Neo Series 430 HAD Reference and put it up against the V281?
> http://headphone.guru/moon-neo-series-430-had-reference-headphone-amplifier-with-optional-dsd32-bit-pcm-dac/
> That thing outputs some serious current if I read the numbers well  looks like a HE-6 favourite? Only listening can tell the real story though. The linked review didn't mention the HE-6, nor a lot of comparisons with other TOTL headphone amps...


 
  
  
 I actually just sent my own personal V281 over to Tyll from InnerFidelity. He has assembled a bunch of top amps including the Simaudio 430, Auralic Taurus, Schiit Ragnarok, the big Woo Audio monoblocks, HeadAmp GS-X mkII, and probably a few others which I'm forgetting... should be a fun comparison. We were trying to figure a way for me to fly out there and listen with him but the scheduling is proving difficult. But he might be able to snag some of the other InnerFidelity contributors to get more ears in the mix.


----------



## galacticsoap

/me slaps head - what was I thinking. Here I am trying to figure out all how I could enable the headphone out + run a parallel line out when the answer has been staring at me the whole time. I had no idea the v281 could have the headphone out activated AS WELL AS the line-out. I love this amp - I just head to press the line-out button and it appears I can run both outputs in parallel.
  
 At the risk on erring on the side of caution, I'll seek clarification from @fdg or directly from Lake People's support team to gauge if what I want to do won't strain the amplifier unnecessarily.


----------



## Revogamer

I use it as a line level out to other amplifiers at work for comparisons 

Make sure it is not set as variable out or will act as pre amp. 

Can do line level by pressing and holding the line button for 3 seconds.

You can then switch between variable and fixed by pressing either xlr or Dig above. 

Then press the line for 3 seconds more to set it


----------



## galacticsoap

Thanks mate - I guess what I want to verify is whether I can use it as a line-out + headphone amp i.e. amplified headphone signal to the Abyss and line signal via 2 X RCA to 3.5mm to the Subpac.


----------



## galacticsoap

All good guys - spoke to Fried and he confirmed it's all good. Listening to my AB-1266's + Subpac via the V281 as I type this. Un****ing believable.


----------



## project86

galacticsoap said:


> All good guys - spoke to Fried and he confirmed it's all good. Listening to my AB-1266's + Subpac via the V281 as I type this. Un****ing believable.


 
  
  
 Enjoy!!!!


----------



## jark

When not using it as a pre amp, does the Line out (both either XLR or rca) works even when the V281 is turned off?


----------



## plakat

jark said:


> When not using it as a pre amp, does the Line out (both either XLR or rca) works even when the V281 is turned off?


 

 I don't think so... its not hardwired, so the unit must be switched on I guess.


----------



## jark

plakat said:


> I don't think so... its not hardwired, so the unit must be switched on I guess.




Bummer! not good.... I've just received my new Luxman L-550AX integrated amp which like the V281 requires to be On in order for the "rec out" to works. So let's say I want to listen to my turntable on headphones through the V281, my option are either switch on the L-550AX to use the rec out circuit which is then connected to the V281 input or unplugged from one to connect to the other...both options been very bad... With my old Rotel amp the rec out worked even when the unit was turned off...

Is there other option I've been missing in order to have both units connected but without having to be turned on at the same time?

Cheers


----------



## plakat

jark said:


> Is there other option I've been missing in order to have both units connected but without having to be turned on at the same time?


 
  
 You could use some kind of split cable, but keep in mind that XLR and RCA levels differ. Plus a turntable will not work with the V281 without a phono preamp (except for the few turntables that offer line-level output)


----------



## jark

plakat said:


> Plus a turntable will not work with the V281 without a phono preamp (except for the few turntables that offer line-level output)




Of course...I didn't mentioned that in between I'm using a Luxman E-200 phono...


----------



## plakat

jark said:


> Of course...I didn't mentioned that in between I'm using a Luxman E-200 phono...


 

 In that case I'd try a split cable from your phono preamp to both your amps, something like this one:
 http://www.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_tpy_2003_rcc.htm


----------



## jark

plakat said:


> In that case I'd try a split cable from your phono preamp to both your amps, something like this one:
> http://www.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_tpy_2003_rcc.htm





Interesting! Never seen one of those...thanks for tip. I won't be losing any sound quality though?

Cheers mate


----------



## rx79ez08

Something like this:
  
 http://www.altronics.com.au/p/p0357-dynalink-rca-male-to-2-rca-female-right-angle-adapter/
  
 Should also work.


----------



## plakat

jark said:


> Interesting! Never seen one of those...thanks for tip. I won't be losing any sound quality though?
> 
> Cheers mate


 

 Should be no problem. An output socket that works when the amp is switched off (the Beyerdynamic A2 has that e.g.) is essentially the same: just a direct wire from input to output.
  
 I prefer adapters with some cable in between instead of those longer 1-piece adapters as it takes strain off the sockets on the device.


----------



## Gibsonmac

Is the only way to get the V281 in the states, to go factory direct? I've been going back and forth between the Ragnarok, Taurus mkII, and EF6 for a few weeks now, and after seeing the violelectric on innerfidelity, and a few other reviews, I think I'm sold. Sounds like exactly what I've been searching for. I would have gone with the Rag, because Schiit has STELLAR customer service, but the whole not knowing what outputs are hot at any given time and the actual running temp of the amp were turn offs.


----------



## roskodan

http://www.violectric-usa.com/
  
 http://aphroditecu29.com/
  
 it's a difficult decision, at http://www.innerfidelity.com/ , there will be a big shootout with all of em and more, tho it may take some time till it's out...
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-and-so-it-begins#oCdsKv0brWSIXldR.97
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-lets-light-bird#duvZo4xLmcpBY1Cv.97


----------



## ellevoid

gibsonmac said:


> Is the only way to get the V281 in the states, to go factory direct? I've been going back and forth between the Ragnarok, Taurus mkII, and EF6 for a few weeks now, and after seeing the violelectric on innerfidelity, and a few other reviews, I think I'm sold. Sounds like exactly what I've been searching for. I would have gone with the Rag, because Schiit has STELLAR customer service, but the whole not knowing what outputs are hot at any given time and the actual running temp of the amp were turn offs.


 
 Between those choices, I would definitely choose V281. I owned Taurus MK2 and V281 using them with my HD800, LCD3F and HE6. V281 is a winner.
 I also tried Ragnarok with HD800 and LCD3 at the local shop here, it sounds very good but V281 is better in both sound and build quality.


----------



## MP1968

gibsonmac said:


> Is the only way to get the V281 in the states, to go factory direct? I've been going back and forth between the Ragnarok, Taurus mkII, and EF6 for a few weeks now, and after seeing the violelectric on innerfidelity, and a few other reviews, I think I'm sold. Sounds like exactly what I've been searching for. I would have gone with the Rag, because Schiit has STELLAR customer service, but the whole not knowing what outputs are hot at any given time and the actual running temp of the amp were turn offs.


 
  
  
 Unless you're in a hurry to splash your cash on an amp now, you might want to wait for the Inner Fidelity review.  Though as Roskodan says, it may not be out for a while.
  
 FWIW, I've recently had the chance to compare side-by-side the EF6 and V281, for a good couple of hours.  I swapped back and forth using the standard music tracks I use for assessing 'phones etc. (so I'm very familiar indeed with them).  Upstream DAC was a Naim DAC V1.  My 'phones are LCD3Fs.  
  
 I already own the EF6 as I previously had HE6s.  The EF6 pairs with the LCD3s very well in my view, and I was simply trying to establish whether the V281 offers a significant change.  The conclusion: to my ears I could detect very little difference indeed between the two amps, and in fact I very much doubt whether I could have picked each one out reliably in a blind test.  
  
 Everyone hears these things differently, of course, and the time I had was relatively limited.  Nonetheless it convinced me that there would be no point at all in losing money by selling the EF6, and then investing around £1300 on the V281.
  
 Just my 2 cents.


----------



## ab_ba

I received my V281 and V800 last week from Arthur at violectric-usa.com. After listening long into the night for several nights now, I feel ready to share some impressions. 
  
 Here is the upshot: the balanced output of the V281 is utterly tremendous. 
  
 Some background - Last month I bought a pair of LCD-3F’s. At home, I didn’t quite hear the magic I had heard at the store. Was it psychological? At the store I had been auditioning them with an Audeze Deckard amp. At home, I was using my Schiit stack - Bifrost and Lyr 1. Was that the difference? I decided it was time to try an amp upgrade. I decided to go several rungs up the ladder. That’s right when John Grandberg’s review came out on Innerfidelity. I found this thread, I found the review on headphone.guru, and I found the trash talk. All of it led me to decide the V281 was the way I wanted to go. Yggy/Ragna, Simaudio Moon, GSX, having read about all those, the Violectric just seemed like the right amp for me. 
  
 I placed the order, held my breath for two long days, worked from home the morning it was scheduled to arrive so I could sign for the delivery, plugged everything in, hit “play”, and said, “yup, that’s my music.” I was impressed with the sound of the V281, but it seemed to me like a nice step up from my Lyr. As I listened, I could hear a forward emphasis in the midrange - hi-hat brushwork and strings seemed to emerge from a darker background on the Vio than on the Lyr. Things sounded more dimensional than with the Lyr. I didn’t really know what a high-end amp should sound like, so I figured I was just facing the law of diminishing returns.
  
 After an hour or so, I switched the cables on my LCD-3s to balanced, and gave that a go. My experience was dramatically different. The sound was rich, full, and deep. Details popped out. There was dimensionality to the music. In a song I know well, I could hear differences in fingering on a guitar that I hadn’t heard before. In a live recording I’ve been listening to for twenty years I heard reverbs I had never heard before. The positions of the musicians was more tangible. Now, this was a completely different experience. Airy and dense at the same time, and quite wonderful. I was completely smitten with this amp. 
  
 The next night, I plugged in my HD800s (single-ended), and I went back to feeling a tad underwhelmed. I have yet to be fully impressed with the HD800, on any amp. I mean, I see what they can do, and sometimes it’s fun to hear all the high-frequency information they present so well, but they are not visceral and engrossing the way the LCD-3’s are, and that open-ness they have makes the music feel like it is just out of my reach. Last night I ordered a balanced cable for the 800’s - I’m excited to see if that will make the difference. 
  
 I didn’t really believe in balancing till this experience. One way to do a “balanced” amp is to simply separate the grounds for both drivers. I don’t see this making much difference. I put it up there with bi-amping speakers: it seems like it might make a difference, till you think about what’s happening. The proper way to make a balanced amp is to have separate amps for each driver, and that’s the way the V281 works.  The effect of balancing - done properly, at least - is really remarkable. 
  
 For me, the clearest indication of quality audio gear is when listening is effortless. Once you know a particular detail is there, you can usually go back and hear it on slightly inferior gear. The point is, you didn’t notice it till the better equipment served it up on a platter. That keeps happening with the V281 - listening is an immersive, engrossing experience. It’s hard to multitask - the music draws me back in. The Lyr is a good amp, especially for its price, but music was never as involving with it as the V281 is. A second great test of audio gear for me is how much enjoyment I can get from music I’ve never heard before. Often, it takes me many listens to really fall in love with something, and then you wonder how you could have missed all that your first time through. When I play songs I’m not familiar with on the V281, I find them interesting and compelling right away. For sure, plenty of times I don’t like them, but they always hold my attention. The third thing I notice on good gear is that I can make out the words more clearly. I love it when I realize, "oh is that what's he's singing!" On the Vio, vocals sound closer and more nuanced. I can make out words more distinctly than with other amps.
  
 I purchased mine with the level 2 upgraded volume knob. I did this because I wanted to be able to keep it at a low power for my JH-13fp’s. I can’t tell how much of my enjoyment of the V281 is due to the volume knob, or to the V800 for that matter, but the whole package is simply fantastic.
  
 I find the JH-13’s to be a bit boomy on the V281 (single-ended), so if I have a positive experience with balancing the HD800s next I’ll balance the JH-13’s. In contrast, the HE-500 single-ended is lovely on the Vio. I’ve never really warmed to the HE-500: I appreciate how linear they sound, but it seemed less dynamic and engrossing to me than my LFF Paradox or my HD650’s. On the V281, though, they sound much better. I think there’s a nice pairing between the slightly-warm single-ended output of the V281 and the HE-500. I bought the LCD-3's to replace the HE-500s, but I may keep them after all. 
  
 Till now, I’ve usually been able to picture some way in which my audio experience could be improved. That’s been the biggest source of my upgrade-itis. In this case, though, there’s nothing I feel is lacking, nothing that I’ve heard in other headphone setups that I think I should be hearing here. For me, the V281 is a completely satisfying experience.
  
 Sometimes I give the V281 a volume workout. As I raise the volume, the sound scales uniformly. It is a pleasure to listen at a loud volume briefly - kind of like taking up your car’s speed for a few minutes on an open road. I can’t really do this with my Lyr - the sound gets wincy when things get loud - a harshness (maybe tube distortion) sets in, and I want to back the volume down pretty soon. The Vio hangs together, allowing me to bring up the volume to quite a loud level and still be comfortable - things stay even and under control. It is loud, but it does not develop any harshness anywhere. And yet at normal listening volumes, resolution and detail are there in full force. 
  
 I want to end by reiterating: the balanced output is a very different beast from the single-ended output. The single-ended output is a solid improvement over the Lyr. I find it a tad warm, but still with a lot of detail and resolution. The V281’s balanced output is an utterly phenomenal amp. It sounds powerful, neutral, and resolving. The sound it delivers through my LCD-3F’s is everything I want.


----------



## Gibsonmac

ab_ba said:


> Some background - Last month I bought a pair of LCD-3F’s. At home, I didn’t quite hear the magic I had heard at the store. Was it psychological? At the store I had been auditioning them with an Audeze Deckard amp. At home, I was using my Schiit stack - Bifrost and Lyr 1. Was that the difference? I decided it was time to try an amp upgrade. I decided to go several rungs up the ladder. That’s right when John Grandberg’s review came out on Innerfidelity. I found this thread, I found the review on headphone.guru, and I found the trash talk. All of it led me to decide the V281 was the way I wanted to go. Yggy/Ragna, Simaudio Moon, GSX, having read about all those, the Violectric just seemed like the right amp for me.




Pretty much describes my situation exactly, I think this is the final nail, time to bite the bullet.


----------



## ab_ba

Hey has anybody else taken the plunge after reading John's review? It sounded like a few people were right on the verge... what did you decide?


----------



## Chik0240

ellevoid said:


> Between those choices, I would definitely choose V281. I owned Taurus MK2 and V281 using them with my HD800, LCD3F and HE6. V281 is a winner.
> I also tried Ragnarok with HD800 and LCD3 at the local shop here, it sounds very good but V281 is better in both sound and build quality.


 
 May I ask for a bit more detail on the comparison between the V281 and Taurus Mk2? I am currently enjoying my HE500 very much and would be interesting to learn a bit about where the V281 can be better
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (colour me interested to burn some more hard earned money lol)


----------



## ellevoid

For me V281 has a warmer sound compare to Taurus Mk2 and has a better output power.
  
 At that time, I changed my headphone from HE500 to HE6 and HD800. I found Taurus was a bit brighter when using with them and I had a feeling that it can't drive HE6 to full potential, so I sold it and bought V281.
  
 To me Taurus mk2 is a perfect match with HE500, so if you don't have a plan to change your headphones to HE6 or HD800 or other brighter cans. I think you better spend your money on something else like a better DAC or a music server or maybe Audeze's cans.


----------



## Gibsonmac

ab_ba said:


> Hey has anybody else taken the plunge after reading John's review? It sounded like a few people were right on the verge... what did you decide?


 
  
  
 I ordered the V281 because of that review... I had a *broken in* Taurus mkII for a couple weeks that I rented from The Cable Co. and was more or less sold on it.  It sounded pretty good with most of my cans, though it was just a touch bright and I did NOT like it with the HE6 at all, but since no amp can be all things to all people I accepted the concession, I could always EQ (GASP?!) to fatten things up a bit. 
  
 Enter "The Review Heard 'Round the World"... So an amp that performs as good or better than the Auralic, BUT is not quite as thin/bright???, and sounds killer with the HE6??? YES PLEASE!!! In about 20 minutes, I went from, "going to buy an Auralic" to, "Not anymore!"  At first it did seem a little too good to be true, can one actually have their cake _and_ eat it??  Well, I will certainly find out very soon to come, but its looking good so far.  I ordered the black unit with gold feet, because who doesn't like a bit of bling now and then, and went with the top-end volume control, because, well why not.  After sufficient burn in, I'll post a proper review...


----------



## Ultrainferno

You'll love every single bit of it, I have the same as you.


----------



## Zkadoush

project86 said:


> I actually just sent my own personal V281 over to Tyll from InnerFidelity. He has assembled a bunch of top amps including the Simaudio 430, Auralic Taurus, Schiit Ragnarok, the big Woo Audio monoblocks, HeadAmp GS-X mkII, and probably a few others which I'm forgetting... should be a fun comparison. We were trying to figure a way for me to fly out there and listen with him but the scheduling is proving difficult. But he might be able to snag some of the other InnerFidelity contributors to get more ears in the mix.


 

 What's with Tyll and Violectric?! He keeps praising the 430HA with its cute little red digits on the front panel, and sure it's a nice looking Amp, but the V281 measured better and is almost exactly half the price. He's never been able to say one little positive thing about Violectric and the last time he was in Munich, he failed to interview Fried Reim who was there everyday at the show!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Tyll also failed to measure SNR, which is a significant value to be considered when reproducing 48/88.2/96/176.4/192 kHz 24bit High Resolution Audio, and where the V281 outperforms the 430HA by a 10dB margin!

 Don't know what he's got with Violectric, but he can't bear to make one little compliment to any of the Amps that we all know are the very best built, engineered and performing out there, let alone at their price point. No big deal, really, it just annoys me that he can be so hardheaded and have such nonsense preferences.

 Anyhow, my Violectric "fan-boy" rant of the day!


----------



## Chik0240

And I read from his measurement that the v281 actually rolled off in the bass region a bit, which I didn't expect considering this amp is said to be warm in tonality


----------



## gonzfi

zkadoush said:


> What's with Tyll and Violectric?! He keeps praising the 430HA with its cute little red digits on the front panel, and sure it's a nice looking Amp, but the V281 measured better and is almost exactly half the price. He's never been able to say one little positive thing about Violectric and the last time he was in Munich, he failed to interview Fried Reim who was there everyday at the show!!:basshead:
> 
> Tyll also failed to measure SNR, which is a significant value to be considered when reproducing 48/88.2/96/176.4/192 kHz 24bit High Resolution Audio, and where the V281 outperforms the 430HA by a 10dB margin!
> 
> ...




Tyll 'reviews' certain headphones and amps before he's turned the power on! Bit silly really. However in fairness to Inner Fidelity they did give the V281 a glowing review just not with Tyll as the reviewer.


----------



## project86

zkadoush said:


> What's with Tyll and Violectric?! He keeps praising the 430HA with its cute little red digits on the front panel, and sure it's a nice looking Amp, but the V281 measured better and is almost exactly half the price. He's never been able to say one little positive thing about Violectric and the last time he was in Munich, he failed to interview Fried Reim who was there everyday at the show!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I wouldn't read too much into it. Everything is all very preliminary at this stage, and very little has actually been said about most of the amps so far. Plus I wonder if Tyll isn't overcompensating a little for my having already reviewed the amp in a very positive light - wouldn't want to make it seem like a forgone conclusion, or to give unfair attention. Bob Katz has talked a lot about how he enjoys the Burson, and Tyll hasn't commented on it at all either. 
  
 The measurement routine is still a work in progress anyway. I imagine SNR will show up eventually. I'd also like to see these amps measured at lower volumes.... I suspect Tyll is measuring at full throttle which equalizes the amps in terms of volume control quality. Back them off to 1/4 or 1/2 volume and I bet you'd start seeing channel imbalance showing up more often, among other things.
  
 I'd also like to see balanced mode used. As we know, the V281 is only using half of its potential as measured. So this is more like a V200 or V220 measurement if you want to look at it that way. The Taurus mkII is also very different when using the balanced out, so it would be worth adding that measurement. Not sure how the Simaudio amp differs between balanced and SE, but the measurements would help use figure that out one way or the other.
  
 In short, give it some time, it will all hopefully come out in the end. 
  
  


chik0240 said:


> And I read from his measurement that the v281 actually rolled off in the bass region a bit, which I didn't expect considering this amp is said to be warm in tonality


 
  
  
 Yep, I was surprised to see that as well. It certainly doesn't line up with what I hear at all. But to keep it in perspective, it's only down 1dB below 30Hz, and less than 2dB by 20Hz. That's pretty insignificant. I'd be curious to see if the balanced output measures the same way.
  
  


gonzfi said:


> Tyll 'reviews' certain headphones and amps before he's turned the power on! Bit silly really. However in fairness to Inner Fidelity they did give the V281 a glowing review just not with Tyll as the reviewer.


 
  
 That was me who gave it the glow.
  
 And no, Tyll doesn't typically come into his reviews with preconceived notions. If there was ever a person to cut through hype and price tags to give a bad review, he's the guy. I'm sure, like me, he looks at the design of an amp and thus has some expectations based on that.... but those don't always end up being true.


----------



## Chik0240

project86 said:


> I'd also like to see balanced mode used. As we know, the V281 is only using half of its potential as measured. So this is more like a V200 or V220 measurement if you want to look at it that way. The Taurus mkII is also very different when using the balanced out, so it would be worth adding that measurement. Not sure how the Simaudio amp differs between balanced and SE, but the measurements would help use figure that out one way or the other.
> 
> In short, give it some time, it will all hopefully come out in the end.


 
 That sounds interesting, since at least in the Taurus I'd heard a audible difference in clarity and tonality between the single ended and balanced mode. It'll be interested to compare the Auralic approach of combining the ORFEO modules in single ended mode and separate them when used in balanced mode to the more traditional approach of the V281 that just shuts down half of the amp section in single ended operation as well


----------



## Gibsonmac

chik0240 said:


> And I read from his measurement that the v281 actually rolled off in the bass region a bit, which I didn't expect considering this amp is said to be warm in tonality


the comments said he didn't have his settings right, or some other user error


----------



## ab_ba

Quote: 





project86 said:


> And no, Tyll doesn't typically come into his reviews with preconceived notions. If there was ever a person to cut through hype and price tags to give a bad review, he's the guy. I'm sure, like me, he looks at the design of an amp and thus has some expectations based on that.... but those don't always end up being true.


 
  
 I appreciate what Tyll is doing immensely. My only quibble with his approach to this is that I wish he would listen first, measure second. The concern with measuring first is that you "know" what to listen for, and things that might have gone unnoticed become un-ignorable. You can't un-see those measurements when you listen. I always enjoy it when Tyll says in a review, "I was hearing ___ so then I measured them and  sure enough there was ____ ." Doing it in this order, I fear there's going to be some confirmation bias. 
  
 +1 for measurements (and listening comparisons!) in balanced mode. To my ears, that's where the V281 really differentiates itself.
 +1 for the discrepancy between the measured low-frequency fall-off and the warmish sound I hear in SE mode. I agree those just don't jibe, even if the measured effect is only a few dB.
 +1 for getting more people to Tyll's studio so we can hear a breadth of opinions. There's no other place like that in the world. John, are you going to be able to get out there?


----------



## project86

It's funny because I see where you are coming from, and the flip side is a barrage of comments at IF calling for an even MORE rigorous, objective approach. Seems Tyll is too objective for some and too subjective for others. Oh well.
  
 Unfortunately I won't be able to make it out there. Too many other things going on.


----------



## richard51

i dont know anything about Tyll hence i dont want to comment to  a specific individual.... Just a 2 cents remark.... I i was an engineer designing amp i will scuplted the sound i want with my ears and feed back measurement apparatus...the same for headphones.... But i am only an audiophile ordinary customer searching for the best i will in the first place look for some expert  and experienced ears for advise.... Measurements will only add a marginal weight to the balance of my decision  at the ends... But its Very important that some guy made all this measurements ( thanks to Tyll )
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....But to made decisions based only on that will be illusory at least....


----------



## ab_ba

project86 said:


> Seems Tyll is too objective for some and too subjective for others. Oh well.


 
 Yup, meaning he's probably doing it just about right. At least in my experience, when I've had the chance to compare his reviews to my own listening experience I can usually hear what he describes. For me, same as with movie critics or anything else - when my experience jibes with theirs, that's a reviewer I'll keep going back to.


----------



## plakat

project86 said:


> Seems Tyll is too objective for some and too subjective for others.


 
  
 This is a good sign for a valid middle ground...


----------



## project86

ab_ba said:


> .....when my experience jibes with theirs, that's a reviewer I'll keep going back to.


 
  
  
 Me too.


----------



## Gibsonmac

Anyone know of a decent DAC with balanced out? I'm a vinyl guy, so I don't have much for a DAC, and I want the most out of my v281... Thinking of the Schiit gungnir, or woo wds1.


----------



## project86

gibsonmac said:


> Anyone know of a decent DAC with balanced out? I'm a vinyl guy, so I don't have much for a DAC, and I want the most out of my v281... Thinking of the Schiit gungnir, or woo wds1.


 
  
  
 I wasn't particularly impressed with either of those models. The Woo is attractive but seems especially overpriced given the sound. 
  
 How about a Violectric V800? With the 15% off promo still running, it comes out to under $1100. So it's competitive with the Woo and sounds better imho. Also it will sit above your V281 for a great looking stack.
  
 The only potential downside is the USB drivers have trouble with Windows 8.1 (or so I've heard, I'm sticking with Windows 7 until 10 proves worthy). So that's something to consider.


----------



## Gibsonmac

Yeah, I was looking at the v800, but was a bit weary of the driver issues. It's a few years old now as well, so I would think the chipsets and whatnot that have released since then would be better choices, which I guess is my main concern. I really don't know much about the digital/DAC side of things though, so I could be completely off base. 

In other news, my V281 is STELLAR! The build quality is really something special, as good or better than any Woo product I've had. The sound quality has met and exceeded my expectations in every way, it so far is living up to the hype... 

Does anyone know of a splitter/switching unit for balanced connections that won't degrade the sound quality? I want to have both my turntable and DAC connected via xlr.


----------



## PleasantSounds

gibsonmac said:


> Does anyone know of a splitter/switching unit for balanced connections that won't degrade the sound quality? I want to have both my turntable and DAC connected via xlr.


 
  
 That wouldn't give you any significant advantage, unless you have very long cable runs or live under powerlines.
 The V281 has a single ended preamp and only the power stage is balanced. SE input is as good as the XLR.


----------



## Gibsonmac

pleasantsounds said:


> That wouldn't give you any significant advantage, unless you have very long cable runs or live under powerlines.
> The V281 has a single ended preamp and only the power stage is balanced. SE input is as good as the XLR.


Hey thanks for the info. I was under the impression in order to reap the benefits of balanced amps, it had to have a balanced source as well, at least that's what I was told about the Woo wa22.


----------



## i019791

gibsonmac said:


> Anyone know of a decent DAC with balanced out? I'm a vinyl guy, so I don't have much for a DAC, and I want the most out of my v281... Thinking of the Schiit gungnir, or woo wds1.


 
 You could check the Audio gd NFB-1DAC or DAC-19, with Amanero usb.


----------



## rx79ez08

I quite like the Auralic Vega with the V281.
  
 I think the clarity and detail of the Vega complimented the 281 very nicely. I used to have a NAD M51, which I found to be a great DAC but is a bit too heavy with the 281.


----------



## Gibsonmac

Yeah so the HE-6 and the V281... Mein Gott, can you say impact?! I feel like I'm finally hearing the HE-6 for the first time. Up until now, I've heard a few amps that _could_ drive them(sort of), and a lot of amps that absolutely could not; I just figured, maybe the power hungry beasts weren't for me, they more or less became a check off the list for me, I've owned them. Well, now that I've _finally_ heard them, WOW!!! They hit harder and dig deeper than my LCD2 rev2, and are at the same time very clear and revealing. Anyone who has not heard this pair that owns a V281, you really owe it to yourself to try it out. 

The only critique I have for the V281 at this point is, I kinda wish it had a locking xlr for the headphones, it's a small gripe, I admit, but really the only negative I have for now.


----------



## Chik0240

gibsonmac said:


> Yeah so the HE-6 and the V281... Mein Gott, can you say impact?! I feel like I'm finally hearing the HE-6 for the first time. Up until now, I've heard a few amps that _could_ drive them(sort of), and a lot of amps that absolutely could not; I just figured, maybe the power hungry beasts weren't for me, they more or less became a check off the list for me, I've owned them. Well, now that I've _finally_ heard them, WOW!!! They hit harder and dig deeper than my LCD2 rev2, and are at the same time very clear and revealing. Anyone who has not heard this pair that owns a V281, you really owe it to yourself to try it out.
> 
> The only critique I have for the V281 at this point is, I kinda wish it had a locking xlr for the headphones, it's a small gripe, I admit, but really the only negative I have for now.


 
 May I ask what are the list of the "could drive HE6" amps? so we won't go the wrong way


----------



## Gibsonmac

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but:

Well the Taurus mkII can drive them, but I really didn't like the pairing at all, it was pretty bright for me, and I didn't care for the treble, but some people say they like that sound. A rotel stereo speaker amp, enough power but just no synergy. The EF6, again is supposed to drive it very well, it was designed to drive the HE6 after all, but I really didn't like it much, it was pretty average sounding to me, it had enough power, but was kinda lifeless, lacking dynamics... The schiit lyr and (insert headphone) sounded better in comparison, but cannot drive the HE6 either lol. 

Pretty much every amp I've owned or borrowed I've tried with them, just in case, but as mostly just a power benchmark I guess is what I was checking.

I've heard very good things about the wa5, but I don't have one, though the guy listing his in the classifieds here has nearly been an impulse buy a couple times. But it's a 'stock' version, and I wanted the upgrade package.


----------



## Zkadoush

Not Tyll's Big Sound array, but my own little endgame rig in bliss mode.


----------



## Chik0240

gibsonmac said:


> Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but:
> 
> Well the Taurus mkII can drive them, but I really didn't like the pairing at all, it was pretty bright for me, and I didn't care for the treble, but some people say they like that sound. A rotel stereo speaker amp, enough power but just no synergy. The EF6, again is supposed to drive it very well, it was designed to drive the HE6 after all, but I really didn't like it much, it was pretty average sounding to me, it had enough power, but was kinda lifeless, lacking dynamics... The schiit lyr and (insert headphone) sounded better in comparison, but cannot drive the HE6 either lol.
> 
> ...




Thanks man, I didn't mean to be sarcastic, just always heard about so many people claims some amps can drive it well while others say the other way round, but this time with the v281 seemed nobody are saying it can't drive the he-6, which sounds quite solid to me, so just asking for a reference


----------



## project86

I personally think it has to do with sound sig just as much as ability to drive. I've heard a Schiit Lyr 2 do a reasonably good job, and I've heard a different Lyr 2 sound terrible, so it clearly had to do with the tubes being used along with the associated gear in each system.
  
 The best I've heard from a reasonably affordable amp is the NuForce HA-200 set up in monoblock mode. That's $700 total for both amps and it sounds very impressive. Violectric's V200 does a pretty good job, and Auralic Taurus is very enjoyable imho. V281 is best of all in my experience.
  
 Speaker amps were said to be the best way to go but in my experience they don't guarantee anything at all.


----------



## Gibsonmac

project86 said:


> I personally think it has to do with sound sig just as much as ability to drive. I've heard a Schiit Lyr 2 do a reasonably good job, and I've heard a different Lyr 2 sound terrible, so it clearly had to do with the tubes being used along with the associated gear in each system.



The lyr2 with different tubes did a good job with the HE6? I never would have guessed that would have been possible, it is pretty responsive to rolling though. 

I have very mixed feelings about the HE6's. The craftsmanship, on my pair at least, is God awful considering the price. They do sound killer though through the right amp.


----------



## ghostchili

I just posted a review on the V281 focusing on the amps versatility with different headphones. I planned on having it done sooner but I had to wait on my HE-1000s and the Nighthawks. If you guys have any questions that I didn't answer in the review just ask.
 Let me know what you guys think and thanks for reading!
http://www.head-fi.org/products/violectric-hpa-v281/reviews/13835


----------



## project86

Wow, brilliant write up! Very informative and useful.


----------



## ghostchili

project86 said:


> Wow, brilliant write up! Very informative and useful.




Thanks, That means a lot coming from you!


----------



## ab_ba

Hey Violectric fans, you've got to go check out the latest post on innerfidelity!
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-brian-na-blur#1OyWEEuL851w4XLI.97
  
 Listen to the end. 
  
 I'm hoping soon to post my own impressions of the V281 compared to the other amps in the room at Big Sound 2015, but here's the bottom line: if I had to blind-test the V281 against almost any amp that Tyll had there, I am pretty sure I would not have been able to pick it out consistently. (Note that that was done with the HE1000 - I didn't compare amps with any other headphones. Also, I only listened in balanced mode.) Unblinded, at loud volumes, I preferred the Ragnarok. At normal-listening volumes I preferred the Violectric.  As for interface, I liked the feel of the Moon's volume knob a tad better than the Violectric. I am talking the tactile feel of the volume knob, not its sound - I did not listen quiet enough to compare channel balance.
  
 I will be keeping my Violectric for a long, long time. And more importantly, I won't be buying any other amp either   This thing works beautifully with every headphone I own, plus the ones I might buy...


----------



## project86

Thanks Aaron! I have't had a chance to watch it, will certainly do so in the near future.


----------



## project86

Alright, Big Sound 2015 is over (as far as the listening phase) so my v281 is in the mail headed my way. I've missed it! Should be fun to pair with the HE-1000 again, as I've been running that with other amps in V281's absence. 
  
 On another note, if anyone needs a new DAC.... the V800 v2 can be had for a great price right now. Since V850 is out, V800 v2 got a price drop to $999. That's $440 off the original price. And then that 15% off deal is still going, so effectively $850 for a V800 v2 (v2 means the new 24/192 USB input). A very good deal imho, and should sound great with V281.


----------



## JeffMann

This post is dedicated to V281 owners who use the Sennheiser HD800 as their only (or primary) headphone.
 I have recently modified my HD800 headphones with dramatically positive results, and this post can be conceived to be an altruistic gesture targeted towards other HD800 owners who may also want to improve the sound of their V281-HD800 combo by experimenting with this modification.
  
 Some background. I am not an headphone fanatic (like ghostchili) who owns multiple headphones. I simply want to own the "best" headphone that I can find to listen to classical and opera music.
  
 I previously owned an AKG 701 headphone, but I replaced it with a HD800 headphone about 5 years ago, and I have never listened to the AKG 701 headphones since their replacement. I have only one complaint with respect to the HD800 headphones, and that relates to their excessive treble energy that makes them sound excessively/unaturally bright. I originally purchased a V200 amp about 4 years ago because its was reputed to tame the HD800's tendency to exhibit an exaggerated treble response, and I replaced my V200 amp with a V281 amp about 1 year ago. Although the Vioelectric amps tamed the HD800's exaggerated treble response, it didn't quite eliminate the problem. I was therefore thinking of replacing my HD800 with a more neutral headphone if I could ever discover a headphone that had the positive qualities of a HD800, but with a more neutral treble range. I was thinking that the new HiFiMan HE1000 may be good replacement choice, but there is no dealer in Salt Lake City, so I have never been able to audition them. I was also worried about its quality of construction. My personal inclination to consider replacing my HD800 with another headphone (like the HE1000)  has basically disappeared since I modified my HD800 last week and totally eliminated the exaggerated treble response problem.
  
 I used the Anaxilus-mod as described by Tyll Hersten - see   https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=956&v=NuhZyubY9pI
  
 I read about this Anax-mod about 2 years ago, but I wasn't tempted to try the mod because I was sceptical that it could possibly work. What changed my mind?
  
 I decided to experiment with the Anaxilus mod after recently reading a series of blog posts by Tyll Hersten of innerfidelity.com relating to his Big Sound 2015 experiment where he invited a number of audiophiles to participate in blind testing of headphones and headphone amps, and to also choose their favorite headphones. What really surprised me is that a number of the participants selected the HD800 headphone as the best, or one of the best, headphones - even though it is a 6-year old design that had to compete against two different Stax electrostatic headphones, two different Audeze headphones, the HE1000, the Mr. Speakers Ether and the Abyss. However, I noted that the participants who really liked the HD800 headphone all specified that their positive feelings about the HD800 only applied to Tyll Hersten's Anaxilus-mod version of the HD800. That prompted to perform the Anaxilus-mod (as described by Tyll Hersten in his video). It only cost me $15 to get the needed craft supplies and it only took me 30 minutes to perform the modification. What effect did the modification have on the sound of my V281-HD800 combo?
  
 The audio/sound results were totally stupefying. The Anaxilus-mod completely eliminated my HD800's excessive treble energy problem. I cannot even begin to comprehend why such a simple modification (basically involving a 5mm ring of foam/felt around the perimeter of the driver) can have such a salutary/positive transformative effect. I significantly underestimated how much excessive treble energy still existed in my V281-HD800 combo, and how much better it could sound when this excessive treble energy is eliminated. My V281-HD800 combo now sounds "musically neutral". There was also no negative effects due to the modification eg. bass or mid-range colorations or a decrease in transparency or the speed of transients. In fact the musical soundstage seems to have been "scrubbed even cleaner" as a result of the modification and there is an enhanced level of transparency in the mid-treble range.
  
 I would strongly encourage V281 owners who use the HD800 headphones to perform this modification as an experiment. It only costs $15 to get the necessary craft supplies and it only takes 30-60 minutes of work effort to perform the modification. *Most importantly, the Anaxilus-mod can easily be reversed and the HD800 headphones can be restored to their original (unmodified) state if the sound results are not favorable from the perspective of each individual HD800 owner*.
  
 Jeff.


----------



## JeffMann

Project86,
  
 Have you got a lot of experience of the V281 combined with the HiFiMan HE1000? If affirmative - what do you think of that headphone relative to other headphones that you regard highly?
  
 Jeff.


----------



## Klonk

jeffmann said:


> This post is dedicated to V281 owners who use the Sennheiser HD800 as their only (or primary) headphone...............................................
> I*d the HD800 headphones can be restored to their original (unmodified) state if the sound results are not favorable from the perspective of each individual HD800 owner*.
> 
> Jeff.


 
 After reading Tyll Hersten Big Sound 2015 account I felt the same way about wanting to mod my Sennheiser HD-800. However I am not very handy I must admit, moreover I don't think I can buy the craft supplies needed for the Anax mod in Europe.
 So I was wondering if there is a place/person where you can buy ready made Anax mods item?
  
@JeffMann  enjoy your new headphones, I suppose they feel like a new headphone.


----------



## Ultrainferno

jeffmann said:


> Project86,
> 
> Have you got a lot of experience of the V281 combined with the HiFiMan HE1000? If affirmative - what do you think of that headphone relative to other headphones that you regard highly?
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
 I'm not John but it's my fav amp for the HE1000, in balanced mode. My review should be up in a week or 2


----------



## JeffMann

I don't know of any ready-made supplier of the Anaxilus-mod. I am sure that you get the equivalent craft material in Europe, although the brand name may be different. It only consists of 2mm thick felt and 2mm thick foam, and it requires double stick adhesive sheets to bond them together.
  
 Jeff.


----------



## project86

jeffmann said:


> Project86,
> 
> Have you got a lot of experience of the V281 combined with the HiFiMan HE1000? If affirmative - what do you think of that headphone relative to other headphones that you regard highly?
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
 I'm working on a review of the HE-1000 as we speak (er... type, you get my point). It's not perfect but I love it, and V281 drives it incredibly well. It's the first (full size) headphone I've heard which lets me forget about my Stax rig, for the most part. NOT cheap, but not unreasonable either considering the cost of a top-flight Stax rig.


----------



## hennessys

klonk said:


> However I am not very handy I must admit, moreover I don't think I can buy the craft supplies needed for the Anax mod in Europe.


 
  
 Don’t sweat it. I just walked in into a small office supply store, I picked a two sided tape and three normal felt with different thickness.
  
 I even tried binding different materials together, but felt did the magic for me.
  
 I gave two weeks to each and I put my favorite at the end.


----------



## JeffMann

Ultrainferno and Project86,
  
 I look forward to your review of the HE1000.
  
 Please let us know when the review is publically available.
  
*Anax-mod update:*
  
 After many more listening sessions, I came to realise that the Anax-mod that I constructed didn't really produce a neutral sound. It actually damped the treble energy too much and the treble was too subdued-sounding. I needed to make a new mod that didn't damp the treble so much and that allowed for some treble sparkle without any excessive treble brilliance/brashness. I therefore made the same shaped mod as before, but I only used a single 1mm thick layer of felt, and I didn't add an additional 2mm base layer of foam under the felt layer (as described by Tyll Hersten). This new version of the Anax-mod may result in the desired effect and my initial listening results are very positive, but I need to listen a lot more to confirm my very favorable initial impression.
  
 It is amazing that a 1mm layer of felt, that is only applied over such a small surface area of the inner cup of the headphone, can have such a positive treble-reducing effect. I didn't previously realise how complex the sound wave energy/pattern must be in the enclosed area between the concave surface of the headphone cup and the side of the head/pinna. According to Tyll, the distance between the side of the head/pinna and the HD800 headphone's driver is equivalent to the wavelenth of a 6,500Hz signal and that it is primarily responsible for the increase in treble energy in that frequency range. That explanation sounds oversimplistic, and I could imagine that this issue is much more complex and poorly understood. I don't know why there should be such a clearly discernible difference between the two versions of the Anax-mod that I have tried.
  
 Jeff.


----------



## Klonk

Thanks for your help and replies @hennessys and @JeffMann


----------



## lunz

Hi guys,
  
 For the Mac users, did you encounter any issues by going to OSX 10.11 El Capitan with the integrated USB Dac ?
 I'm having some disconnections from time to time between the DAC and the computer (MBP with OSX 10.11). The sound goes off after a few minutes, and I have to shutdown the Vio and restart it.
 Since I skipped Yosemite and went directly from Mavericks to El Capitan, I was wondering if I was an isolated case or not.
 (I reinstalled the drivers)
  
 Cheers


----------



## plakat

lunz said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> For the Mac users, did you encounter any issues by going to OSX 10.11 El Capitan with the integrated USB Dac ?
> I'm having some disconnections from time to time between the DAC and the computer (MBP with OSX 10.11). The sound goes off after a few minutes, and I have to shutdown the Vio and restart it.
> ...


 

 El Capitan now requires device drivers to be signed and removed the switch to disable that check. The drivers for the standard USB board offered with the V281 are not signed, so they won't load on El Capitan. There's a newer USB receiver in use in the V850, don't know if there's a new version of the board for the V281 available though. Sorry...
  
 Since you own a MBP you could contact Violectric and try to exchange the USB board for either the newer USB receiver if they offer that version for the V281 or an optical input: the MBP has an optical digital out...


----------



## reiserFS

plakat said:


> El Capitan now requires device drivers to be signed and removed the switch to disable that check. The drivers for the standard USB board offered with the V281 are not signed, so they won't load on El Capitan. There's a newer USB receiver in use in the V850, don't know if there's a new version of the board for the V281 available though. Sorry...
> 
> Since you own a MBP you could contact Violectric and try to exchange the USB board for either the newer USB receiver if they offer that version for the V281 or an optical input: the MBP has an optical digital out...


 
 Excuse me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't you be able to fix this with disabling the "rootless" mode? (Whoever thought that was a good idea to introduce.)


----------



## plakat

reiserfs said:


> Excuse me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't you be able to fix this with disabling the "rootless" mode? (Whoever thought that was a good idea to introduce.)


 

 I think the kernel lost the switch to disable the driver signature check altogether... but I may be wrong on that. Still I don't think its a good idea to disable a security feature of such broad range just to load an unsigned driver, even if that check could be disabled in that way. Yes, I do work in network management and security, so aversion to disabling security features is normal for myself 
  
 Its unfortunate that the USB receiver Violectric used is supported so badly... and I'm happy they switched.


----------



## phonomat

Meanwhile on Innerfidelity, Tyll's take on the headamps used for Big Sound 2015 is finally out -- and the Vio does surprisingly well, seeing as it always appeared (to me, at least) like he was sort of biased against it for some reason.
 Okay, what he has to say about it sounds more polite than enthusiastic, and it "only" ranks 6/9, but the five above it are at least double the price (with the exception of the GS-X) and go as high as §15,000 (for the Woo Audio monoblocks). Plus, it outperformed its strong contender, the Ragnarok. Unfortunately, he didn't have an Auralic Taurus to test; I would have liked to see how he thinks they stack up.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-wrap-my-take-headphone-amps#zQIUs7wRuO34wP3d.97


----------



## heyyeh

Hi All,
  
 This is really helpful forum.  Thanks.
 Very interested in getting a V281 for my HE1000.
 But I am wondering if I would get any benefit with the balanced output into the HEK if my source is a Hugo with single ended input to V281.
 Appreciate any advice on this.


----------



## PleasantSounds

With V281 it doesn't matter whether input is SE or balanced. In fact internally the pre-amp is single ended, only the power stage is balanced.
 So you can feed it with Hugo and you won't lose anything.


----------



## heyyeh

pleasantsounds said:


> With V281 it doesn't matter whether input is SE or balanced. In fact internally the pre-amp is single ended, only the power stage is balanced.
> So you can feed it with Hugo and you won't lose anything.


 
 Good to know.  Thanks.


----------



## gonzfi

pleasantsounds said:


> With V281 it doesn't matter whether input is SE or balanced. In fact internally the pre-amp is single ended, only the power stage is balanced.
> So you can feed it with Hugo and you won't lose anything.




Does that mean it's not a 'properly balanced' amp then??


----------



## project86

Depends on your definition of true balanced. IMHO it's something that isn't worth fussing over.... Some amps are fully balanced dual mono designs, others are some variation of partially balanced, and others are totally single ended but with an XLR output for maximum compatibility. They all have potential to sound great, or not, based on a number of factors.


----------



## gonzfi

project86 said:


> Depends on your definition of true balanced. IMHO it's something that isn't worth fussing over.... Some amps are fully balanced dual mono designs, others are some variation of partially balanced, and others are totally single ended but with an XLR output for maximum compatibility. They all have potential to sound great, or not, based on a number of factors.




The reason I ask is that I have just sent my T1's off to be reterminated to a balanced connection with the expectation of an improvement when using with my v281. Hope I haven't wasted my money!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I prefer most of my headphones in balanced on the v281, only a few in SE mode


----------



## Blackrain

On my V281 the balance headphone out is better than the 1/4" output with both my LCD 3 and HE-1000.  Sound stage is larger and backgrounds are quieter.  From the highs to the lows it just sounds a bit clearer.


----------



## PleasantSounds

gonzfi said:


> The reason I ask is that I have just sent my T1's off to be reterminated to a balanced connection with the expectation of an improvement when using with my v281. Hope I haven't wasted my money!


 
  
 In SE mode V281 uses one power amp per channel. By converting your hps to balanced you are allowing it to use all four onboard power amps, i.e. 2 per channel. I have never heard T1s with the V281, but for all my headphones the difference this makes is substantial. 
  
 I wouldn't worry too much about the SE preamp: it's the power stage that makes the difference. Having fully balanced end-to-end amp might feel better, but it would complicate the design and make it more expensive, with negligible impact on sound quality.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Updated and cleaned the starting page.


----------



## Ultrainferno

fegefeuer said:


> Updated and cleaned the starting page.


 
  
 Great job. Very informative.
 I noticed the Violectric balanced IC cables in the pictures in the first post, I'm using them as well. Great set of cables


----------



## phonomat

fegefeuer said:


> Updated and cleaned the starting page.


 

 Good stuff! Looks exemplary. I'm almost tempted to read through all those impressions and reviews again.
 Herzlichen Dank, Fegefeuer!


----------



## project86

Yes, thank you! Keeping an ongoing thread organized is an important but not always exciting task, so I really appreciate your efforts.


----------



## metaldood

How does the V220/281 compare with Schiit Mjolnir 1 for LCD-X and HD800? I wanted to try V220 but only after I sell Mjolnir


----------



## gonzfi

pleasantsounds said:


> In SE mode V281 uses one power amp per channel. By converting your hps to balanced you are allowing it to use all four onboard power amps, i.e. 2 per channel. I have never heard T1s with the V281, but for all my headphones the difference this makes is substantial.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about the SE preamp: it's the power stage that makes the difference. Having fully balanced end-to-end amp might feel better, but it would complicate the design and make it more expensive, with negligible impact on sound quality.




A further question on this if you wouldn't mind....

If I connect my dac (nad m51) to this amp with either balanced xlr cables or standard stereo interconnects, will that make a difference to the balanced output? Thanks.


----------



## PleasantSounds

> Originally Posted by *gonzfi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> A further question on this if you wouldn't mind....
> 
> If I connect my dac (nad m51) to this amp with either balanced xlr cables or standard stereo interconnects, will that make a difference to the balanced output? Thanks.


 
  
 I think it will depend more on the quality of the M51 output - there may be some reason to pick one over the other. I don't know too much about this DAC, so won't make any statements here. 
  
 From my experience the V281 doesn't really care about the input. There may be a difference in loudness, but that's about it. Still, having the choice I would always pick balanced over single ended. IMO it's just a better standard: higher signal levels, symmetrical lines with noise rejection, locking connectors - all that raises my confidence.


----------



## Blackrain

gonzfi said:


> A further question on this if you wouldn't mind....
> 
> If I connect my dac (nad m51) to this amp with either balanced xlr cables or standard stereo interconnects, will that make a difference to the balanced output? Thanks.


 

 In most cases the balance output is always louder and as PleasantSounds has mentioned it will depend on the Quality of the output from the M51.  I have own DACs that sound a tad more revealing from the balance out because of a lower noise floor and I have owned DACs that the SE output seemed more musical and less clinical.  Its best to try both since you have both options.  Just make sure you are sound level matching because many times.... louder can perceive to be better when its just more signal into the amp helping it sound more open and dynamic.


----------



## gonzfi

Thanks for the advice.... So I therefore deduce that if I were to use a Chord Hugo instead of the M51, the fact it doesn't have a balanced output shouldn't make a huge amount of difference? Obviously there will be a difference because it's a different dac.


----------



## Blackrain

gonzfi said:


> Thanks for the advice.... So I therefore deduce that if I were to use a Chord Hugo instead of the M51, the fact it doesn't have a balanced output shouldn't make a huge amount of difference? Obviously there will be a difference because it's a different dac.


 

 Exactly...just the difference in the sound signature between the two DAC's


----------



## ArthurPower

Thought some may enjoy pic's of my new headphones. Audeze LCD-4!


----------



## Blackrain

NICE!!!!!!!
  
 Was there a long wait since they build after receiving your order?
 Tell us what they sound like...your killing me with the beautiful photos and no comment lol.


----------



## ArthurPower

The wait is about a month for a pair after you order.

I just posted a little something on the LCD-4 thread. 

"Now that my LCD-4's are broken in a bit the bass is just incredible! Even better then my LCD-2.2 (pre fazor). You can clearly hear down to 20Hz. Just amazing. So clear and detailed. I am really loving these."

I didn't want to derail this thread away from the Violectric V-281. Of course all my listening so far has been with the V-281.


----------



## gonzfi

Quick question: I have the gain on my v281 set at the third highest setting out of 4. Is there any reason not to do this? It's not bad for the amp I hope?


----------



## project86

If Violectric made a gain option then they intended it to be used. No damage involved - or else why would they do it? The only reason you would use a lower setting is if you find your headphones getting too loud, too fast. Then drop the setting down lower. 
  
 I suppose a higher gain could put your headphones at a higher risk of being blown by waaaaaaaay to much volume. So be careful, don't crank the knob all the way up (on any gain setting actually).


----------



## Blackrain

I just posted a write up of a few different interconnects that I have used with my V281 & V850 DAC.  Since this is the V281 thread some of you might be interested.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/786838/introducing-violectric-by-lake-people-cables#post_12062189


----------



## drgameboy

Just wanted to post and say that Violectric (Arthur) provided me with the best customer service i have ever experienced. I called Arthur and got a great deal on the V281. I literally ordered my Amp on Friday, and got it today in the mail! As for the V281, it actually looks bigger than i imagined. I also got the Violectric balanced cables and they sound great, a little improvement from my previous no name balanced cables. Amp has been burning in now for about 5 hours, and the sound is really opening up. I have been listening with my HD800 and Emotiva DC-1 Stealth DAC. Sound is neutral with a touch of warmth, this really helps tame the harsh highs on the HD800. I wasn't really fond of the single ended output (a little too warm and maybe "liquidy veiled?" is how i will describe the sound single ended with the HD800. This might be due to the fact that the amp is brand new, and hasn't fully burned in yet. The Balanced output also has that creamy sound to it, but with a lot more air that i like, while also taming the highs of the HD800. So far i am very impressed. I will have to say that compared to my previous Auralic Taurus MKII, the bass is not as present on the V281. I actually expected the opposite, and more bass from the Violectric. The Auralic had mega impact in the bass, that was very tight. I am not hearing that with the V281. Bass is a little bit on the leaner side. I sold my HE500 this weekend, so no other headphones to test with the V281, but my brand new TH900 should be delivered hopefully on Thursday, so i will post more impressions later this week. Overall, very impressed, and actually like this a little better than my Auralic Taurus with the HD800, mainly because the Auralic had more harsher highs, while the Violectric tames the highs, while still keeping the treble extended. hopefully with further burn in, the bass response improves and matches what i had with the Auralic Taurus MKII. Good Job on a stellar Amp Violectric, and thanks again Arthur for your Phenomenal customer service and a great deal on the V281.


----------



## Blackrain

drgameboy - I felt the same about the bass when I first got my unit.  I'm pretty sure as the amp and the cable breaks in the bass will become fuller and more tuneful.  The bass will have good slam but it never ever sounds bloated and is very well control.  Sometimes when the bass is controlled it seems that there is less bass but in fact its isa more articulating bass.  It took about 100 hours for my amp to break in completely and the cable took about 50.  Also I found that experimenting with changing the gain switch on the amp did have an effect depending on the output level of the DAC I used.  I keep the gain low enough so that most of my listening level was past 11 O'clock position on the V281 volume pot.  I found that the volume pot past the 11 O'clock position made the amp sound more transparent.  Congrats on the purchase!


----------



## phonomat

drgameboy said:


> I sold my HE500 this weekend, so no other headphones to test with the V281, but my brand new TH900 should be delivered hopefully on Thursday, so i will post more impressions later this week.




Thank you for your impressions, and yes, please keep us posted; I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the Vio/Fostex combo.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I wish the HE500 was more comfy, I'd use it a lot with my V281. Or is there a comfort mod on the HE500 I don't know of?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Probably something like using the Sennheiser HD650 headband cushions


----------



## drgameboy

replacing the stock earpads on the my HE500 with the Focuspad-A made the HE500 just as much as comfortable as my HD800. the headband never really bothered me.


----------



## bazelio

Hi all V281ers... I'm curious to know if anyone has heard both the Audio-GD Master9 and the Violectric V281.  I'd be very interested in a compare/contrast type of feedback on tonality and soundstage.  
  
 One piece of feedback I've heard for both already is "smooth".  Which is .... well.... music to my ears.  The V281 might be a touch warm in comparison.  And in regards to soundstage, I'm not sure about either.
  
 Thanks!
  
  
 (PS This is actually a cross-post; same question asked in the M9 thread - hope that's OK)


----------



## project86

Sorry, I have not had a chance to check out any of the more recent Audio GD models. I really enjoyed their Ref series DACs but I'm way behind on hearing anything of theirs from the past few years. So I'm no help.


----------



## drgameboy

Quick update... so got my TH900 like 10 minutes ago, and tried a couple of songs with the V281...Oh My Effing God, i am in audio Nirvana...Monsta bass, clarity, huge soundstage... are these headphones even closed???!!!! I don't even hear the recessed mids that everyone keeps yapping about! Now this is Summit-Fi... I am enjoying this way more than my HD800. WOW is all i can say. My search is over, i was thinking about eventually getting a HE-6, but with what i am hearing with these TH900s, i think i am done buying headphones for a while...HD800 might go up for sale. I will report back with more detailed comparison between both in a couple of days. But i am utterly impressed with the TH900 and V281 combo.


----------



## project86

Nice! Is that balanced or single ended?


----------



## drgameboy

project86 said:


> Nice! Is that balanced or single ended?




I am running hd800 balanced, and th900 single ended.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, the V281 has the TH-900 in control with a massively tight iron grip.


----------



## plakat

V281 + TH900 was too much for my taste but friends loved the combination as well. I can only stand the TH900 with rather lean amps such as the A8...


----------



## lunz

plakat said:


> V281 + TH900 was too much for my taste but friends loved the combination as well. I can only stand the TH900 with rather lean amps such as the A8...


 
  
 I have to agree with Plakat. Same taste here. I was surprised that it didn't match. The treble was too present for me on this amp for this HP.
 Yet again, I love it with the LCD2.2.... so I might be a bit sensitive on this side.
  
 Love my TH-900 leaner amps as well.


----------



## phonomat

lunz said:


> I have to agree with Plakat. Same taste here. I was surprised that it didn't match. The treble was too present for me on this amp for this HP.
> Yet again, I love it with the LCD2.2.... so I might be a bit sensitive on this side.
> 
> Love my TH-900 leaner amps as well.




Could you define 'lean' as you hear it? I always took it too mean less full-sounding, which I would associate with less bottom end and an all around brighter signature.


----------



## lunz

After a quick look up in the dictionary I believe that I have got the word "lean" wrong indeed :/ in that case it's the other way around.
  
 TH-900 is in the office now, but from memory I was bothered with the highs. I don't recall for the rest of the spectrum.
 Yet again, this comes from a guy with untrained ears, and not a fan of treble oriented cans, so take it as it is 
  
 And the guy in question is even having doubts on his statement now...
 I'll bring it back this week end and give it an other try, if I get the time.


----------



## drgameboy

lunz said:


> After a quick look up in the dictionary I believe that I have got the word "lean" wrong indeed :/ in that case it's the other way around.
> 
> TH-900 is in the office now, but from memory I was bothered with the highs. I don't recall for the rest of the spectrum.
> Yet again, this comes from a guy with untrained ears, and not a fan of treble oriented cans, so take it as it is
> ...


 
  
 I thought the TH900 has great great highs with the V281. It sparkly crystal clear highs with no sibilance. maybe your DAC is the culprit.


----------



## DrKC

drgameboy said:


> Quick update... so got my TH900 like 10 minutes ago, and tried a couple of songs with the V281...Oh My Effing God, i am in audio Nirvana...Monsta bass, clarity, huge soundstage... are these headphones even closed???!!!! I don't even hear the recessed mids that everyone keeps yapping about! Now this is Summit-Fi... I am enjoying this way more than my HD800. WOW is all i can say. My search is over, i was thinking about eventually getting a HE-6, but with what i am hearing with these TH900s, i think i am done buying headphones for a while...HD800 might go up for sale. I will report back with more detailed comparison between both in a couple of days. But i am utterly impressed with the TH900 and V281 combo.


 

 OK, this sounds more like it.  Your first post made me think you got a flaky 281, then I decided you needed some "real" headphones  .
 I have had my 281 for several months now.  I was looking forward to pairing it with my LCD-3s.  I had been enjoying the 3s on a Schiit Mjolnir.  A couple of friends kept telling me I had to listen to some HE560s.  So I finally did.  Now I'm hooked on the 560s (with ALO's Green balanced cable) and the 281.  Like you, I'm just not interested in anything else now.  The LCD-3s sit in their box gathering dust - I haven't even powered up any of my other amps - have 6 others and $8K invested in them.  This combo is it - at least for now - it's going take something that I don't think exists yet to get me to look elsewhere.
 From my biased point of view - fine choice and enjoy, my friend.


----------



## Blackrain

Wow.... just saw that Violectric USA is having a Black Friday Sale.  25% off everything and a free set of IC with any order over $500. If anyone is thinking about buying themselves a nice early Christmas present here is your chance.  http://violectric-usa.com


----------



## project86

blackrain said:


> Wow.... just saw that Violectric USA is having a Black Friday Sale.  25% off everything and a free set of IC with any order over $500. If anyone is thinking about buying themselves a nice early Christmas present here is your chance.  http://violectric-usa.com


 
  
  
 Yep, that makes a V281 (base model) come out to $1725.


----------



## kali77

I currently run my T1's and Lcd-xc from benchmark dac2 hgc. I have a pair of massdrop fostex coming and plan on adding an HD800/s to the stable as well. Anyone think with my current inventory I would benefit from adding a v281 to the chain? I have been very happy with dac2 for the last year or so. Thanks for any input/suggestions.


----------



## plakat

kali77 said:


> I currently run my T1's and Lcd-xc from benchmark dac2 hgc. I have a pair of massdrop fostex coming and plan on adding an HD800/s to the stable as well. Anyone think with my current inventory I would benefit from adding a v281 to the chain? I have been very happy with dac2 for the last year or so. Thanks for any input/suggestions.




I own and love the DAC2 HGC and don't understand why it doesn't get more attention around here. Very capable dace and quite a powerful amp...
Except for maybe the LCD none of the headphones you mention needs the power the V281 offers... I'd suggest to stay with the DAC2 and use the money for one of the headphones you're planning to get.


----------



## kali77

The Lcd-xc is extremely efficient. With that being said, I could not agree more about why the dac2 is never talked about...... I guess no hype "paid reviewers/members" plays a part. I suppose if I move to a more demanding can I'll look at upgrading to a separate amp. 




plakat said:


> I own and love the DAC2 HGC and don't understand why it doesn't get more attention around here. Very capable dace and quite a powerful amp...
> Except for maybe the LCD none of the headphones you mention needs the power the V281 offers... I'd suggest to stay with the DAC2 and use the money for one of the headphones you're planning to get.


----------



## project86

I've never been a big fan of their DAC 1 but agree that the DAC 2 is exceptional. Unfortunately my experiences with it have been primarily as a DAC or sometimes DAC/preamp... I never got a chance to use the headphone section. So I really couldn't say.
  
 I find that the V281 is subtly better than even the excellent integrated headphone outputs of devices like the Anedio D2, BMC PureDAC, Reseonessence Labs Invicta, etc. Certainly not night and day or even what I'd call "obvious" depending on the headphone. But with the right music I do believe you'd hear it even with HD800. However, it is very tough to justify the cost unless you intend to pick up an HE-6 or Abyss or K1000 down the line.


----------



## kali77

Plakat and Project, I appreci the honest and straight forward guidance. I've been here a long time... Although not the most active, always lurking. I came here after losing my dedicated two channel listening room (mini humans). I've listened to almost ever headphone in one setup or another. I've been happy but have also realized I'll never get the same soundstage, presence, etc as I'm accustomed to. Thanks for your input  happy listening.


----------



## PATB

So for lcd-2F use only, the v281 is overkill? V200 good enough? Thinking of taking advantage of the current sale.


----------



## Blackrain

Well I don't think V281 is over kill as then you will be ready for a headphone upgrade sometime down the line : )
 All kidding aside it really depends on your wallet.  The V281 has better transparency, dynamic headroom quieter background if you will be using it balanced.
 If you don't plan to use the balance headphone out I would say the V200 is just as good.


----------



## project86

patb said:


> So for lcd-2F use only, the v281 is overkill? V200 good enough? Thinking of taking advantage of the current sale.


 
  
 I personally like LCD-2F more in balanced mode with V281, as compared to V200 or any integrated DAC/amp I've yet heard. However, I'm not sure the difference would be large enough to justify the price.... that's more of a personal thing. The sale is great though so it's a tough call.


----------



## PATB

I was hoping you guys would say V200 is good enough. I can pobably get the base 281. Hope I will not regret not getting the 128 step attenuator.


----------



## Blackrain

patb said:


> I was hoping you guys would say V200 is good enough. I can pobably get the base 281. Hope I will not regret not getting the 128 step attenuator.


 

 Well one of the really nice thing about Violectric is that the upgrades can be added later.  I don't have the step attenuator but I do have the remote.  The overall consensus is that the 128 step attenuator is a very slight increase in performance.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Lots of us have really enjoyed the LCD-2 on the V200 before upgrading, so I'm pretty sure you will like it. We're just saying now that the balanced connection sounds even better


----------



## project86

ultrainferno said:


> Lots of us have really enjoyed the LCD-2 on the V200 before upgrading, so I'm pretty sure you will like it. We're just saying now that the balanced connection sounds even better


 
  
  
 This.


----------



## ab_ba

I’ve been enjoying keeping up with this thread, but I haven’t posted anything in a while. I figured it was time. I’m about four months into owning my Vio, using it every day, and loving it only more and more. 
  
 A month ago I set up my V281/V800 stack as my stereo preamp. It’s working great! When I bought the gear I felt a little silly paying for connectivity and options I was pretty sure I’d never use. Now I’m using almost every input and output for something!
  
 I started using my old laptop as a makeshift music server. It sits near my stack so if I’m ever without my main laptop, I’ve still got music. That runs into the optical port on my V800. I plug my main laptop into the USB. FWIW I prefer the USB sound over optical. I play the same file on both computers. Through USB I hear more distinct notes in the bass, and a little more crispness in the treble. It’s not an apples-to-apples comparison because the old laptop is on optical and the new one is USB. I really should do the proper experiment and run the newer laptop on optical and the old one on USB. Too lazy for now. Someday. 
  
 I found an old Technics turntable on Craigslist, and an Emotiva phono preamp. It’s been a joy to revitalize my vinyl collection. Plus, my friends all say, “here, you want these?” so I’ve amassed a pretty sizable vinyl collection in just a few months. I run the phono preamp into the RCA jacks on the V281.
  
 The best part is I send the balanced out from the V281 to my Parasound A23 stereo amplifier. It’s driving a pair of Polk LSI9 speakers. (Both also Craigslist finds - the V281 is the most expensive component in my whole setup.) They sound terrific. 
  
 So putting it all together, on the input side, I’ve got my main laptop with my full music library (FLAC and iTunes) running Audirvana plugged into USB. I’ve got my old laptop / new music server plugged into optical, so there’s always music on hand. I’ve got my turntable via RCA. On output side, I’ve got balanced headphones (HD800 and LCD-3), a couple other unbalanced headphones that just aren’t seeing much use these days, and a pretty decent starter-kit speaker setup. A press of a button or two, and I can switch seamlessly between these sources and outputs. I can send music to headphones, to the stereo, or (kinda fun) to both.
  
 Yeah, my Vio stack is utilized to the max, and in retrospect I’m glad I got a system with so much flexibility. Even the remote, which I thought I’d never use, has become indispensable when I’m listening through speakers. Now if only I could come up with a way to use the digital out on the V800...


----------



## naimless

Just wondered if anyone here knows if there was any reason I couldn't use RCA to XLR cables/adapters in the XLR inputs on the V281?


----------



## Ultrainferno

naimless said:


> Just wondered if anyone here knows if there was any reason I couldn't use RCA to XLR cables/adapters in the XLR inputs on the V281?




Really? I have done it before with the v281 without any issues


----------



## naimless

Thanks that's what I needed to know as I haven't tried it, I need to get some adapters first.


----------



## project86

Not sure about that causing issues but I have to ask what the benefit might be? Or maybe you have two sources, both with RCA outs, so you need to convert?


----------



## naimless

I think I should have phrased my question better as I'm not having any issues I just wasn't sure if I could use the XLR inputs that way. I just want to see if the amp sounds any better from the XLR inputs as I was a bit underwhelmed at the sound quality from the rca inputs.
A change of dac to a single ended one made me ask the question originally.


----------



## PleasantSounds

naimless said:


> I think I should have phrased my question better as I'm not having any issues I just wasn't sure if I could use the XLR inputs that way. I just want to see if the amp sounds any better from the XLR inputs as I was a bit underwhelmed at the sound quality from the rca inputs.
> A change of dac to a single ended one made me ask the question originally.


 
  
 The V281 preamp is internally single ended, only the power stages of the amp are balanced.
 Converting signal from SE to balanced seems pointless as the first thing the V281 will do is convert back to SE.
 What DAC are we talking about?


----------



## ArthurPower

naimless said:


> I think I should have phrased my question better as I'm not having any issues I just wasn't sure if I could use the XLR inputs that way. I just want to see if the amp sounds any better from the XLR inputs as I was a bit underwhelmed at the sound quality from the rca inputs.
> A change of dac to a single ended one made me ask the question originally.


 

 Actually the XLR and RCA inputs do sound slightly different on the Violectric V281. The difference is very small but, I find the XLR is a bit smoother and less fatiguing with headphones that tend to be shouty.
  
 Even though the pre-amp signal internally is unbalanced (as most equipment is) the path it travels is very short. However, there is always less signal loss connecting gear together with a balanced connection externally. This may be considered by some as insignificant if the cables are under 20 feet long but, a balanced cable is also less susceptible to RF interference.


----------



## naimless

pleasantsounds said:


> The V281 preamp is internally single ended, only the power stages of the amp are balanced.
> Converting signal from SE to balanced seems pointless as the first thing the V281 will do is convert back to SE.
> What DAC are we talking about?




I have replaced my v850 dac with a chord 2cute.





arthurpower said:


> Actually the XLR and RCA inputs do sound slightly different on the Violectric V281. The difference is very small but, I find the XLR is a bit smoother and less fatiguing with headphones that tend to be shouty.
> 
> Even though the pre-amp signal internally is unbalanced (as most equipment is) the path it travels is very short. However, there is always less signal loss connecting gear together with a balanced connection externally. This may be considered by some as insignificant if the cables are under 20 feet long but, a balanced cable is also less susceptible to RF interference.




I thought I had read somewhere that there was a slight difference in sound quality between the two inputs,that's why I wanted to give it a try just couldn't remember whether it was in a review or someone's post on this thread.


----------



## 13713

Yes the first few hands on reviews stated a difference. Johns was one of them.


----------



## mboerma

What is the preferred way to connect the V281 with the v850? And why? I have RCA cables and COAX. Also, what are the best settings for the combo? Volume, resampling? Just bought this great set but need to figure out what is the best setup.
  
 Many thanks!


----------



## plakat

mboerma said:


> What is the preferred way to connect the V281 with the v850? And why? I have RCA cables and COAX. Also, what are the best settings for the combo? Volume, resampling? Just bought this great set but need to figure out what is the best setup.
> 
> Many thanks!


 

 I'd say connect them by XLR (XLR out on the V850 to XLR in on the V281), use the max position of the volume knob on the V850. Personally I don't like resampling, so I'd keep that off. Get some good XLR cables from a local music equipment store, shouldn't cost too much.
 Of course connecting by RCA will be fine at home as well (I guess you won't put them too far apart).


----------



## mboerma

plakat said:


> I'd say connect them by XLR (XLR out on the V850 to XLR in on the V281), use the max position of the volume knob on the V850. Personally I don't like resampling, so I'd keep that off. Get some good XLR cables from a local music equipment store, shouldn't cost too much.
> Of course connecting by RCA will be fine at home as well (I guess you won't put them too far apart).


 

 Thanks. I'll look for the XLR cables. Currently using RCA cables and the units are next to each other.


----------



## plakat

mboerma said:


> Thanks. I'll look for the XLR cables. Currently using RCA cables and the units are next to each other.


 

 RCA is fine, XLR is some kind of personal fetish I have to admit. It does help with longer interconnects and/or electrically noisy environments though.
  
 Enjoy your new devices, the V281 is an excellent device which I hold in high esteem. Looking into the V850 myself... so I'm interested in comments on the combination as well.


----------



## Wurstteppich

plakat said:


> Enjoy your new devices, the V281 is an excellent device which I hold in high esteem. Looking into the V850 myself... so I'm interested in comments on the combination as well.




Received the V850 yesterday, but didn't have a chance to compare it to the Sabre DACs yet. Right now I've connected the V850 via XLR and the U-05 via RCA to the V281 feeding one with my laptop and one with my phone playing the same songs. Hopefully I will have some more timw tomorrow or on Sunday. First impression is that the V850 is indeed a little bit smoother than the Sabre, not hiding the details, bit not being ao painful in the highs with some headphone combinations. But honestly...that's just the impression from 5 or 6 songs.

The odd thing...I always want to have the new stuff before the holidays, because I think I will have some spare time...and I never learn from that


----------



## plakat

wurstteppich said:


> The odd thing...I always want to have the new stuff before the holidays, because I think I will have some spare time...and I never learn from that


 
  
 I know exactly what you mean


----------



## mboerma

Yes, exactly the same for me


----------



## alvinmate

Happy New Year to everyone!

Hope everyone enjoying their V281 to the max...

HD800 has proved to be a great match with V281 however have an itch to get something different now.

Therefore I'm looking at HIFIMAN edition X... can anyone comment who has experienced HEX with V281 and if this combo would be an upgrade from HD800?

Thanks


----------



## Ultrainferno

alvinmate said:


> Happy New Year to everyone!
> 
> Hope everyone enjoying their V281 to the max...
> 
> ...


 
  
 My X should arrive in January after CES


----------



## phonomat

> Looking into the V850 myself... so I'm interested in comments on the combination as well.


 
  
 Same here. I have V200, but also very interested in the combo.
  


wurstteppich said:


> The odd thing...I always want to have the new stuff before the holidays, because I think I will have some spare time...and I never learn from that


 
  
 What do you mean, that you don't have as much spare time as you thought you would? I managed to squeeze in quite a lot of quality time this Christmas with my loved ones
 ... my headphones and little black boxes.


----------



## Fido2

.


----------



## alvinmate

ultrainferno said:


> My X should arrive in January after CES





Exciting...
Will wait for your impressions on the HEX and V281 combo.....thanks


----------



## Wurstteppich

phonomat said:


> What do you mean, that you don't have as much spare time as you thought you would? I managed to squeeze in quite a lot of quality time this Christmas with my loved ones
> ... my headphones and little black boxes.


 
  
 I always think I would have some time, but either I end up doing the things I didn't get done before, which needs to be done for preparation (like when we have guests) or spend some time with my fiancée. I guess the last two points could be called "quality time" as well.
  
 Well...enough crying...I will try to sit down and enjoy in the next days, maybe I will be able to give some feedback on the comparison of the V850 to my Sabre DACs.


----------



## phonomat

wurstteppich said:


> I always think I would have some time, but either I end up doing the things I didn't get done before, which needs to be done for preparation (like when we have guests) or spend some time with my fiancée. I guess the last two points could be called "quality time" as well.
> 
> Well...enough crying...I will try to sit down and enjoy in the next days, maybe I will be able to give some feedback on the comparison of the V850 to my Sabre DACs.




All right, gotcha. And yeah, any info on the V850 would be great!


----------



## TonyNewman

Just placed my order for a V281 with relay volume control (no DAC).
  
 What I am hoping for is an amp with similar detail, punch, power and extension as my Taurus Mk2, but also with a slightly warmer presentation and less top end sparkle. Best I can gather from this thread and elsewhere, that is pretty much what the V281 is.
  
 I really like my Taurus, but with my preferred headphones (HD800S and Ether C) the top end can get a little fatiguing and the overall presentation a tad bright.


----------



## PleasantSounds

tonynewman said:


> Just placed my order for a V281 with relay volume control (no DAC).
> 
> What I am hoping for is an amp with similar detail, punch, power and extension as my Taurus Mk2, but also with a slightly warmer presentation and less top end sparkle. Best I can gather from this thread and elsewhere, that is pretty much what the V281 is.
> 
> I really like my Taurus, but with my preferred headphones (HD800S and Ether C) the top end can get a little fatiguing and the overall presentation a tad bright.


 
  
 In direct comparison of these two (with HD800) they were very close to each other. The only difference I noticed was the V281 producing slightly smoother highs. I didn't notice any differences in the bottom end.
  
 Wondering what your impressions will be, as I only had a few hours with them both together.


----------



## Fido2

tonynewman said:


> Just placed my order for a V281 with relay volume control (no DAC).
> 
> What I am hoping for is an amp with similar detail, punch, power and extension as my Taurus Mk2, but also with a slightly warmer presentation and less top end sparkle. Best I can gather from this thread and elsewhere, that is pretty much what the V281 is.
> 
> I really like my Taurus, but with my preferred headphones (HD800S and Ether C) the top end can get a little fatiguing and the overall presentation a tad bright.




I absolutely LOVE my V281. So clean and pure great depth, imaging and insrument seperation. Instrumental music is just competely joyous on the HD800. I usually go to the HE6 for vocal music, rock, metal etc. Im sure you'll enjoy your new amp. Congrats!!


----------



## TonyNewman

pleasantsounds said:


> In direct comparison of these two (with HD800) they were very close to each other. The only difference I noticed was the V281 producing slightly smoother highs. I didn't notice any differences in the bottom end.
> 
> Wondering what your impressions will be, as I only had a few hours with them both together.


 
  
 My V281 ships very soon (excellent service from the folks at Lake People). I will give both amps an extended listen over the coming weeks and keep one and sell the other. Very likely to keep the V281, otherwise I have wasted quite a bit of cash.
  
 Smoother highs are the #1 improvement I am looking for. The top end sparkle from the Taurus is a big part of the fatigue issue for me, I think.


----------



## TonyNewman

fido2 said:


> I absolutely LOVE my V281. So clean and pure great depth, imaging and insrument seperation. Instrumental music is just competely joyous on the HD800. I usually go to the HE6 for vocal music, rock, metal etc. Im sure you'll enjoy your new amp. Congrats!!


 
  
 Thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The Taurus does a pretty good job also with classical and instrumental. For vocal and rock I find the treble gets a little strident / sparkly and the overall presentation a little bright. Not hugely, but enough to cause listening fatigue after about an hour or so with the HD800S. If the V281 can smooth the treble and dial back the brightness, even by a small amount, then that should be enough to make me a very happy customer.
  
 I will post my impressions on Taurus vs V281 in this thread on the coming weeks. I read the comments on the V281 earlier in the thread - very helpful info that steered me onto the V281 as a replacement for the Taurus (I hope).
  
 These are from some of the esteemed gents on this thread:
  


project86 said:


> ... *The wonderfully analog sounding top end. It's a little smoother than the Auralic amp, not rolled off in the least but very controlled, very clean and well done.
> ...


 
  
  


frank i said:


> The Violectric house sound  is a warmer sound more of like what you would hear with a tube amplifier.The black background and the fact that it also balanced  ranks up there with some of the best solid state amps in general. There are more expensive amps and favorite of mine is The Cavalli Liquid Gold which at 4200.00 is pricer. The Cavalli excels with low impedance planars while the V281 is good with any headphone and does really well with the  Hd800.  The advantage of the V281 for many it will work well with any headphone out there. The V281 is outstanding with detail as well as extension in the treble and also in bass extension. I could easily live with this amplifier as a solid state reference amp.


----------



## TonyNewman

double post - sorry.


----------



## 13713

tonynewman said:


> Just placed my order for a V281 with relay volume control (no DAC).
> 
> What I am hoping for is an amp with similar detail, punch, power and extension as my Taurus Mk2, but also with a slightly warmer presentation and less top end sparkle. Best I can gather from this thread and elsewhere, that is pretty much what the V281 is.
> 
> I really like my Taurus, but with my preferred headphones (HD800S and Ether C) the top end can get a little fatiguing and the overall presentation a tad bright.




I am looking forward to your first impressions. I picked up the V281 because it matches well with a wide variety of headphones but the reviews for the pairing with the HD800 are phenomenal. 

The Taurus was one of the 3 headphone amps I was looking at but decided to go with Violectric as Johns review was amazing and after reading head-fi for a few years I respect his opinion a lot. Also I wanted to match my dac and pre-amp and I was going with Violectric for those two things. 

Violectric USA really gave me amazing customer service and support so from that standpoint the company is stellar! Welcome to the club I hope you enjoy your amp as much as I enjoy mine.


----------



## TonyNewman

13713 said:


> I am looking forward to your first impressions. I picked up the V281 because it matches well with a wide variety of headphones but the reviews for the pairing with the HD800 are phenomenal.
> 
> The Taurus was one of the 3 headphone amps I was looking at but decided to go with Violectric as Johns review was amazing and after reading head-fi for a few years I respect his opinion a lot. Also I wanted to match my dac and pre-amp and I was going with Violectric for those two things.
> 
> Violectric USA really gave me amazing customer service and support so from that standpoint the company is stellar! Welcome to the club I hope you enjoy your amp as much as I enjoy mine.


 
  
 Will do. Happy to post my A / B impressions once I have some hours with the V281.
  
 I have never heard the Violectric DACs. I have an Auralic Vega that I am very happy with. Any impressions of the Violectric DAC that you can share? Any comparisons with other DACs you can make? (apologies for going a little OT here, but I do think the Violectric DACs are worth of discussing briefly in the V281 thread).


----------



## gonzfi

tonynewman said:


> Will do. Happy to post my A / B impressions once I have some hours with the V281.
> 
> I have never heard the Violectric DACs. I have an Auralic Vega that I am very happy with. Any impressions of the Violectric DAC that you can share? Any comparisons with other DACs you can make? (apologies for going a little OT here, but I do think the Violectric DACs are worth of discussing briefly in the V281 thread).




I can only compare the V850 to a Nad M51 as they are the only dacs I've had chance to pair with my v281. I would say the v850 is warmer, has a touch more bass and seems more musical. It manages to retain a brilliant level of clarity and I am extremely happy with the combination. I have found that the usb input offers the best results.

I use the Beyer t1 v2 and itching to try a hd800S.


----------



## TonyNewman

gonzfi said:


> .... and itching to try a he800S.


 
  
 Big recommendation on the HD800S from me. Quite a step up from the modded HD800 IMHO. Treble peak is gone and the bass response is better (quality and quantity) without being overdone. Sound feels 'meatier', but the great detail and sound staging of the original HD800 remains (this is my impression anyway). Comfort is the same as the original - superb.
  
 Only downside is that the treble gets a little hot / sparkly with the Taurus - pushing me to the V281.


----------



## gonzfi

It sounds from everything I've read that the v281 is the ideal amp for the hd800/800s. Shame I haven't got the dosh currently!!


----------



## Fido2

gonzfi said:


> It sounds from everything I've read that the v281 is the ideal amp for the hd800/800s. Shame I haven't got the dosh currently!!



Save up. They're not goin anywhere. I would like Vio to make a preamp/HP amp. I need just a couple more balanced inputs.


----------



## Madeupword

tonynewman said:


> Just placed my order for a V281 with relay volume control (no DAC).
> 
> What I am hoping for is an amp with similar detail, punch, power and extension as my Taurus Mk2, but also with a slightly warmer presentation and less top end sparkle. Best I can gather from this thread and elsewhere, that is pretty much what the V281 is.
> 
> I really like my Taurus, but with my preferred headphones (HD800S and Ether C) the top end can get a little fatiguing and the overall presentation a tad bright.


 

 Can't wait!


----------



## Cenacheros

What type of PSU is used with the V281? I don't seem to be able to find any info. even on the Violectric site.-Thanks.


----------



## project86

cenacheros said:


> What type of PSU is used with the V281? I don't seem to be able to find any info. even on the Violectric site.-Thanks.


 
  
 It's a linear power supply with substantial filtering capacitance and dual shielded toroidal transformers.


----------



## TomNC

@TonyNewman
  
 Looking forward to your impressions. I have the same issue with Taurus and HD800 and want to know about a good alternative to the Taurus. Other than the brightness in trebles, I am pretty satisfied with the Taurus in speed, imaging precision, and transparency.


----------



## TonyNewman

The Taurus is a good unit, but that treble can get a little much with the headphones like the HD800/HD800S/Ether C/HE6.
  
 I am hoping the V281 can inject some warmth, not a lot, just enough to take the edge off, and smooth the treble a little. If it can do that it will be a much better match for the 'close to neutral' headphones I like (listed above).
  
 A headphone with a darker presentation and rolled off treble might be a better match for the Taurus (anything LCD-whatever) but they all sound veiled to me.
  
 I tried the 430HA, and it certainly had warmth and tamed treble, but at the expense of dynamics and punch to the point where it sucked the life out of some music.
  
 V281 might just be the answer - some warmth and smoothed treble without crushing the dynamics and punch.


----------



## stvn758

Did someone from the Company mention there would be a replacement for the Violectric 181 in a few months on here?
  
  
 The 281 is a big jump in price. I am looking for a balanced amp for my new Senn 800's and it's between the Violectric and the new Donald North Sonett replacement he said was coming soon. The Violectric being German is closer to home and avoids import duties and such, but both seem highly recommended.
  
 How much do you spend on a new amp before you think a better DAC would be the way to go, Woo Audio, Little Dot and Donald North Stratus, all costly and need to be imported. 
  
 What's the next giant leap up from the Audiolab MDAC anyway - we into diminishing returns territory then?


----------



## TonyNewman

New baby is home and well. V281 with the relay attenuator (no DAC).
  

  
*First impressions:*
 Build quality is very good. Knobs have a nice 'feel' and the unit reeks of tank-like robustness.
 Sound vs Taurus - want to put at least 100 hours on this unit and then do some careful A/B testing vs my Taurus, but my first impression is that the V281 is doing what I had hoped it would do - darken the sound a little and smooth the treble without stomping on the dynamics and punch like the 430HA did. Matched with the HD800S it is performing admirably right out of the box.
  
 I am going to run this baby 24/7 until the weekend, and then do some extended A/B against the Taurus (as an amp and preamp).
  
 My first thought of keeping the Taurus for classical / instrumental listening might be the way to go. Is anyone else doing this (using a brighter amp for classical / instrumental and the V281 for everything else)?


----------



## NZheadcase

Just a general comment about the state of things in my setup. The V281 has been with me close to a month now, and I am seriously enjoying it so far. I am THISCLOSE to saying I have finally found my end game. If I ever am able to tear myself from listening and enjoying this thing (and of course work and all that other stuff in real life) I will post a full narrative report. 
  
 Man, the balanced out on this thing is a beast!


----------



## NZheadcase

tonynewman said:


> My first thought of keeping the Taurus for classical / instrumental listening might be the way to go. Is anyone else doing this (using a brighter amp for classical / instrumental and the V281 for everything else)?


 
  
 Kinda in the same boat, but not the Taurus, specifically. 
  
 I'm leaning towards keeping my Burson Soloist for Classical, orchestral, Film scores and themes, etc. as a back-up. Need to do more A/B listening as well as extended listening sessions before I decide. My other gear will definitely be on the market soon.


----------



## TonyNewman

nzheadcase said:


> Just a general comment about the state of things in my setup. The V281 has been with me close to a month now, and I am seriously enjoying it so far. I am THISCLOSE to saying I have finally found my end game. If I ever am able to tear myself from listening and enjoying this thing (and of course work and all that other stuff in real life) I will post a full narrative report.
> 
> Man, the balanced out on this thing is a beast!


 
  
 Have to give the HE6 a test in the V281. I am told it packs the juice to drive this power hungry beastie.
  
 EDIT: Bugger me! It very much does have the juice to drive this headphone. The Taurus doesn't quite have enough to deliver the sort of bass punch that the HE6 is capable of. The V281 does. Oh my - that is very, very good. Driven from the speaker taps of my power amp will give *slightly *better bass performance, but the overall tonality from the V281 is so much better to my ears that I will take that compromise any day of the week.
  
 I will be packing up my speaker tap rig shortly. Don't need it anymore with the V281 in the house.


----------



## NZheadcase

tonynewman said:


> Have to give the HE6 a test in the V281. I am told it packs the juice to drive this power hungry beastie.


 
  
 Heard the same, but unfortunately could not source an HE6 where I'm at. Importing it would be a bit too much with duties right now, even at the discounted prices I see on Amazon. Still recovering from the V281-sized dent on my card.


----------



## TonyNewman

nzheadcase said:


> Heard the same, but unfortunately could not source an HE6 where I'm at. Importing it would be a bit too much with duties right now, even at the discounted prices I see on Amazon. Still recovering from the V281-sized dent on my card.


 
  
 Just did it with my HE6. Comments above. It's a winner.
  
 EDIT: Been listening to K.D.Lang's 'Hallelujah' on my HE6 and HD800S from the V281. SQ is wonderful. A high end tube amp - like my Glenn 300B with TA300B tubes - will do it better - but not by a huge amount - and for twice the price. Really great amp with the vocals. As good as the Taurus is, after about an hour the brightness and sparkly treble does my head in with vocal/pop/rock.
  
 Thank you to the folks that recommended the V281 + HD800S pairing. It works. Very well.


----------



## TonyNewman

I spent a couple of hours doing some A/B testing with the Taurus vs V281. I know my V281 is fresh out of the box, however a number of forumites have stated that the V281 doesn't change significantly during burn in, so I don't think an early comparison is invalid. Some folks might find these amateur observations interesting.
  
*DISCLAIMER - THESE ARE EARLY IMPRESSIONS OF A FRESH AMP I HAVE SPENT ABOUT 4 HOURS TOTAL WITH.* Take all this with suitable caution - I will do more testing and report back in a few weeks. I don't expect my first impressions to change much, but you never know...
  
*As a Preamp:*
  
 Setup has the V281 fed from the Vega (via XLR) and the Taurus also from the Vega (via RCA). Both then feed the XLR and RCA inputs on the Accuphase P-4200 power amp. One set of speaker taps is wired up to my HE6 via a HiFiMan adapter box. This adapter box has had all the internal resisters and circuitry removed - it is a 'straight thru' device. I use it as it allows me to plug any headphone into the speaker taps via an XLR socket (but only doing this with the HE6 makes any sense for me - perhaps if I had an Abyss?). When I repeat this testing in the coming weeks I will swap the V281 vs Taurus with the XLR vs RCA connections and see if that makes any difference.
  
 Here's a pic of the setup:
  

  
 The important thing with this rig is that I can swap the preamp source between the V281 and Taurus almost instantly with the press of an input selector button on the power amp. It takes a fraction of a second to swap over - no changing headphones or unplugging anything. You can also do solo blind testing by not looking at the setting and pressing the button several times so that you lose track of which input is selected. More about that later.
  
 As an aside, this is the rig I used to confirm my suspicions regarding the 430HA. It's lack of dynamics, speed and punch compared to the Taurus becomes rapidly apparent when testing like this. Picking the difference in blind testing between the 430HA and Taurus was comparatively easy.
  
 Some observations on the V281 vs Taurus as preamps driving the HE6 via the P-4200.

Both amps are _*excellent *_pieces of kit. The sound from these amps are far, far, far more alike than different. Only certain parts of certain tracks, using my most revealing headphones (HD800S / HE6) could I tell much difference. That 2% difference, but a very important 2% for my needs (more on that later).
Detail - plankton aplenty from both. The slightly brighter presentation of the Taurus might give an impression of greater detail, but I think that is more an audio illusion than a real difference. If you like detail, either amp is going to do it for you.
Soundstage, separation and imaging - slight edge to the V281. It's close. Both are very good. I will do this again later on with the XLR and RCA feeds reversed and see if that changes things.
Tonality. It would be easy to make too much of this. I keep coming back to the fact that these amps are far more alike than different. Trying to tell these amps apart in blind testing purely on tonality isn't easy. Put a gun to my head and make me commit myself and I would describe the Taurus as slightly on the bright side of neutral and the V281 as slightly on the dark side of neutral. Both are neutral amps to my ears, with each having a slightly different take on what 'neutral' is (if that makes sense to folks).
Bass / mids / speed / punch... both are excellent. Not going to waste too many words here.
Treble - now this is the killer issue for me. The Taurus combined with the HD800S / HE6 can get a little too much for my tastes in the top end. After about an hour (or less) I get fatigued and have to quit. Too much sparkle gets distracting and pulls me away from enjoying the music. The V281 renders the treble in a way that I find much more pleasant and natural - it is smoother and loses that aggressive edge that can be there with the Taurus. The treble is still there - this is not treble roll off. The different treble rendition is the only difference in these amps that is significant enough for me to pick the difference in blind testing most of the time (and sometimes I got it wrong).
  
*As a Headamp:*
  
 Same rig, but using the XLR output of each headamp to drive the HD800S. I use XLR extension cables so I can easily change headphones and these cables can also be used to solo blind test (face away from the amps and randomly move the connectors around in your hand so you don't know which connector is hooked up to which amp - as long as your XLR extension cables are identical this will work).
  

  
 All the comments above regarding the differences as preamps apply when using these amps as headamps. Again, it is the treble rendition that makes the critical difference for my needs.
  
 When using this rig to drive the Ether C the differences became essentially irrelevant to me. As good a headphone as the Ether C is, and I like it a lot, it is simply not in the same league as the HD800S or HE6 when it comes to revealing minor differences in the upstream gear. This was after only a brief test of a few tracks - I will spend more time with the Ether C and these 2 amps later on and see if I change my mind.
  
*Driving the HE6:* The V281 can do this with authority and strong bass that comes close to what my power amp can do via the speaker taps. The Taurus cannot. Enough said.
  
 My initial thinking was that it might be worth keeping the Taurus alongside the V281 for classical / instrumental. I don't think that idea stands up after the testing above. What is the Taurus going to do that the V281 cannot do at least as well, if not better? Nothing I can think of. Might be selling it soon.
  
*Some questions that folks might want some feedback on:*
  
_*I am contemplating getting a V281 or a Taurus - which should I buy?*_ To me that is an easy one - if you can afford the (relatively) small price difference, get the V281. Mine has the relay attenuator and the remote. I am lazy slob by nature and I *LIKE *having a remote. Note that a remote is not an option on the Taurus. Throw in better treble rendition and slightly better sound staging and I am pushing V281 all the way.
  
_*I already have a Taurus, should I upgrade to the V281? *_Probably not. Your audio dollars might be much better spent elsewhere. The Taurus is a very, very fine amp and there isn't much the V281 will do that the Taurus cannot. Exceptions would be if you are experiencing treble fatigue with the Taurus and/or you want to drive the HE6 close to the limit of its capability with a headamp. I ticked both those boxes and got a V281 and I am happy with my choice.
  
  
 My closing comment is regarding blind testing. There is no substitute for it. Do it - I promise you will learn more about your gear than you thought you would.


----------



## frankraindog

Many thanks for your detailed sharing of your findings.This helps me a lot.


----------



## plakat

tonynewman said:


> _*I am contemplating getting a V281 or a Taurus - which should I buy?*_ To me that is an easy one - if you can afford the (relatively) small price difference, get the V281. Mine has the relay attenuator and the remote. I am lazy slob by nature and I *LIKE *having a remote. Note that a remote is not an option on the Taurus. Throw in better treble rendition and slightly better sound staging and I am pushing V281 all the way.


 
  
 First of all thanks for the writeup. I once considered getting a Taurus, did not do it but remained a bit indifferent about that decision. I think I'll now be able to finally cross that one off.
  
 Regarding price difference I might add that the version you have (which is the one I also bought, but for the simple reason of liking the relay volume) is the most expensive one. Taking the simpler pot-based version (without remote) it costs substantially less, skewing the decision even more in the direction of the V281.


----------



## gonzfi

tonynewman said:


> I spent a couple of hours doing some A/B testing with the Taurus vs V281. I know my V281 is fresh out of the box, however a number of forumites have stated that the V281 doesn't change significantly during burn in, so I don't think an early comparison is invalid. Some folks might find these amateur observations interesting.
> 
> *DISCLAIMER - THESE ARE EARLY IMPRESSIONS OF A FRESH AMP I HAVE SPENT ABOUT 4 HOURS TOTAL WITH.* Take all this with suitable caution - I will do more testing and report back in a few weeks. I don't expect my first impressions to change much, but you never know...
> 
> ...




Great review/comparison. I'm gonna try some comparisons of the V281 versus a Chord Hugo TT over the weekend. I'll also compare the dac side of the TT against my V850 feeding the amp to see what gives the best results. Shame all this great gear is so dam expensive!


----------



## TonyNewman

gonzfi said:


> ... Shame all this great gear is so dam expensive!


 
  
 Yep. Buying the something you aren't happy with gets expensive very quickly in this hobby.
  
 Gotta mention again the great pairing of the V281 and HD800S. This is the best I have heard solid state sound, ever. The touch of warmth and smooth treble of the V281 is just what the HD800S needs to bring out its best. Having bags of power on tap also helps.


----------



## TonyNewman

gonzfi said:


> ...I'll also compare the dac side of the TT against my V850 feeding the amp to see what gives the best results...


 
  
 Really interested in this. Lake People / Violectra make such great amps I am wondering what their DACs are like.


----------



## NZheadcase

@TonyNewman, excellent write up. Very enjoyable read. Looking forward to more. 
  
 Celebrating end-game with my V281, whilst I read your post.


----------



## TonyNewman

nzheadcase said:


> @TonyNewman, excellent write up. Very enjoyable read. Looking forward to more.
> 
> Celebrating end-game with my V281, whilst I read your post.


 
  
 With an excellent beer choice I see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It's hard to tell in the picture, but is that a HD800 lurking next to the Audeze headphone? How do you find the HD800 vs Audeze with the V281?


----------



## NZheadcase

tonynewman said:


> With an excellent beer choice I see
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, yes that is the finest Belgian Ale in my experience.  Limited though it may be. 
  
 That is indeed the HD800, sharing the night with an LCD 2 rev 2. The HD800 on the balanced out is currently the most enjoyable I have experienced. There is a very palpable grip and control on the drivers that enhances all the HD800's strengths. The treble is indeed tamed just a little bit, which helps, though I have to state that I've never had an issue with the treble even on the Burson Soloist. At least not with the music selection I put them through.
  
 Balanced out, the LCD 2 rev 2 is showing me that it still has hidden talents I have not heard. I believed that I had maxed it out with the Burson Soloist - after the first day of owning the V281, I realised it was still capable of scaling higher. It's been back in my rotation since. 
  
 Mayhap I am overly gushing. You know, new toy syndrome. We'll see what happens three months down the line, but for now, I am well and truly satisfied - and I haven't tried half my gear on the V281 yet!


----------



## Fido2

Nice review Tony. I feel the same. The HE6 is just sublime on the V281. I only have HD800 no S model but I cant imagine classical/instrumental sounding better at anywhere even remotely close to the price of V281/HD800 combo. I have been listening more now than ever and buying lots more music. Done worrying about gear. V281 is a winner.


----------



## TomNC

@TonyNewman
  
    Thanks for the comparative impressions. Very informative. Hope you will do a follow-up report in a month or two. I've the old HD800 and am wondering if the V281 is still a good match. But I will have it modded for some control of trebles and increase in warmth.


----------



## TonyNewman

tomnc said:


> @TonyNewman
> 
> Thanks for the comparative impressions. Very informative. Hope you will do a follow-up report in a month or two. I've the old HD800 and am wondering if the V281 is still a good match. But I will have it modded for some control of trebles and increase in warmth.


 
  
 I have a modded HD800 (about to get it back after repairs). The mod helps tame the treble peak, but doesn't do anything for the bass response. The HD800S does both. It is a significantly better headphone IMHO and I really like the balanced cable that comes with it.
  
 I would rather listen to the modded HD800 on a V281 than any other solid state amp that I have tried, but would much prefer to pair the V281 with a HD800S than a modded HD800.


----------



## TonyNewman

fido2 said:


> .... Done worrying about gear. V281 is a winner.


 
  
 Yep - kinda getting onto the same page. Doubt I will be buying another solid state amp for a very long time.


----------



## 13713

Thanks Tony for your initial impressions. I am glad that you had the chance to compare it to another amp. I jumped into headphones way at the deep end with the V281/V850 combo feeding into the HD800. This was a few months ago and all I can say is I am in love. I know a lot of people get into this hobby and go from amp to amp to amp looking for the "one". This happens to be the same with DACS and everything else in this hobby. I was fortunate enough to come in right when the 850 was shipping and so I just grabbed the two immediately with no test gear.
  
 The options were a Schiit stack or Violectric and with all the praise the V281 was getting I decided to go that route. There is a lot to say hearing a person's thoughts on equipment I purchased knowing they have had other gear and the impressions they have towards the hobby. I appreciate you taking the time to give us your initial impressions.
  
 From reading what you have said I need to get a hold of the 800S and see if I can notice the difference. It also looks like it is high time to track down some HE-6 phones for myself.
  
 Happy listening.


----------



## TonyNewman

13713 said:


> Thanks Tony for your initial impressions. I am glad that you had the chance to compare it to another amp. I jumped into headphones way at the deep end with the V281/V850 combo feeding into the HD800. This was a few months ago and all I can say is I am in love. I know a lot of people get into this hobby and go from amp to amp to amp looking for the "one". This happens to be the same with DACS and everything else in this hobby. I was fortunate enough to come in right when the 850 was shipping and so I just grabbed the two immediately with no test gear.
> 
> The options were a Schiit stack or Violectric and with all the praise the V281 was getting I decided to go that route. There is a lot to say hearing a person's thoughts on equipment I purchased knowing they have had other gear and the impressions they have towards the hobby. I appreciate you taking the time to give us your initial impressions.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sounds like you pretty much nailed it right away with the V281/V850 stack. I wish I had done the same - would have saved me quite a bit of cash and frustration.
  
 I was lucky with my initial DAC purchase - Auralic Vega. That unit continues to hold its own very well.
  
 I got it almost right with the Auralic Taurus Mk2, but I am not sure the V281 was on the market when I purchased the Taurus about 3 years ago, so the Taurus might have been the best choice available (apart from maybe the V200 - but I had no idea that amp even existed at the time).
  
 Had my share of disappointments along the way, but I think my SS rig is now about where I want it to be:
 Vega->V281->HD800S/HE6
 That's a very nice setup. Maybe a DAC upgrade in a few years time - that's about it.
  
 I highly recommend giving the HD800S a try with the V281. This amp makes the HD800S sing beautifully.


----------



## alvinmate

Congrats and welcome to the V281 family...and great insight on your experience with V281 vs Taurus


----------



## alvinmate

Guys need help......I just sold my Rega CDP which was paired with V281 and V800 Dac and it sounded great..however I decided I needed a change and hence the reason for sale...m.looking at options now....should I just stick to Macbook or get a media server/streamer? Or playing out off the Macbook using a good USB to my V800 Dac good enough?


What are the other options that is really good?

Thanks


----------



## 13713

alvinmate said:


> Guys need help......I just sold my Rega CDP which was paired with V281 and V800 Dac and it sounded great..however I decided I needed a change and hence the reason for sale...m.looking at options now....should I just stick to Macbook or get a media server/streamer? Or playing out off the Macbook using a good USB to my V800 Dac good enough?
> 
> 
> What are the other options that is really good?
> ...




For digital my source is a MacBook Pro to the 850. It is a workhorse.


----------



## alvinmate

Thanks how are you connecting your pro to V850?

I may go the same route for digital as I managed to get all my CDs ripped...


----------



## 13713

alvinmate said:


> Thanks how are you connecting your pro to V850?
> 
> 
> 
> I may go the same route for digital as I managed to get all my CDs ripped...




USB


----------



## TonyNewman

I have been freaking out on some classics with the Vega + V281 + HD800S.
  
 Something about the rendition of the V281 reminds me of tube amps. Really lovely stuff.
  
 As good as the Taurus is, it just can't do this. I didn't pick up on this when I first got the amp - I wonder if putting about 30 hours on it has changed the SQ in some way?
  
 Anyway, some of these titles should ring some bells. If you don't have many/most of these tracks in your collection, then shame on you!


----------



## Fido2

I know there are many deniers but I firmly believe my V281 opened up and sounded deeper, more open and more detailed/textural after running for a day or two.


----------



## musicbuff

tonynewman said:


> I have been freaking out on some classics with the Vega + V281 + HD800S.
> 
> Something about the rendition of the V281 reminds me of tube amps. Really lovely stuff.
> 
> ...


----------



## project86

Good impressions everyone, keep 'em coming. For my part I'll say this: I've got the SimAudio 430HAD here, as well as the dual mono Questyle CMA800R setup, and of course the Taurus mkII. Guess which one I still use most? V281.


----------



## TonyNewman

fido2 said:


> I know there are many deniers but I firmly believe my V281 opened up and sounded deeper, more open and more detailed/textural after running for a day or two.


 
  
 +1. I really do think my V281 sounded smoother and more dynamic after approx 30 hours. Vocals sounded significantly better - a tube type of sound (almost).
  
 EDIT - had some more listening this morning with some more hours on the V281. Up to about 40 now and I am convinced that some good things have happened.


----------



## TonyNewman

project86 said:


> Good impressions everyone, keep 'em coming. For my part I'll say this: I've got the SimAudio 430HAD here, as well as the dual mono Questyle CMA800R setup, and of course the Taurus mkII. Guess which one I still use most? V281.


 
  
 Sold my 430HA. Will either be selling or keeping my Taurus as a backup unit. Prefer the V281 to either of them.
  
 Never seen or heard the Questyle.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicbuff said:


> Very nice album selections.  Do you have all those on vinyl?  I'm familiar with most of this music. I own about 7 of these but unfortunately most are mp3 downloads. I've found the V281 to be a perfect match for both my HD 800 and 650 (both running XLR balanced). My DAC is a Calyx Femto.  I'm contemplating buying the 800S to replace the 800 + 650 combo. I've also got an Audeze X but find the V281 makes them sound veiled. Weird thing, I experimented and found the X's had treble (if you ignore the graininess there's some sparkly highs with the satisfying Audeze bass, though mids are greatly lacking) straight from the headphone jack on my desktop.  Obviously music without the midrange is no music at all. This is a great thread, glad I stumbled across it.


 
  
 I have no vinyl, unfortunately. Those are all grabs from Google. All my music is digital - either rips from my CDs or downloads from iTunes.
  
 I sold my LCD-X. Heavy, cumbersome, and the sound was like listening through a sock compared to the HE6 / HD800. They had excellent bass - but that wasn't enough.
  
 I have found the HD800S a nice step up from the modded HD800 and a great pairing with the V281. Highly recommended.


----------



## musicbuff

tonynewman said:


> I have no vinyl, unfortunately. Those are all grabs from Google. All my music is digital - either rips from my CDs or downloads from iTunes.
> 
> I sold my LCD-X. Heavy, cumbersome, and the sound was like listening through a sock compared to the HE6 / HD800. They had excellent bass - but that wasn't enough.
> 
> I have found the HD800S a nice step up from the modded HD800 and a great pairing with the V281. Highly recommended.


 
  
 LOL, love the "like listening through a sock" example.  Guess I'll have to get the 800S.  Then I can retire the 800, 650 and X.  Maybe I'll sell all 3 and get rich...


----------



## TonyNewman

musicbuff said:


> LOL, love the "like listening through a sock" example.  Guess I'll have to get the 800S.  Then I can retire the 800, 650 and X.  Maybe I'll sell all 3 and get rich...


 
  
 Perhaps Audeze could use that phrase in their marketing material?
  
 "_LCD-whatever. It's just like listening through a sock_".
  
 Some folks love the things - I detest them. To each their own


----------



## gonzfi

Gave the Hugo tt a blast this evening on its own and as a dac for the v281... impressive piece of kit but the v850 + v281 is the winner. The tt sounds more 3 dimensional but the violectric pairing wins on clarity and smoothness. I also find the vio pairing manages to retain a very consistent sound at all volume levels which is good for late night listening with open headphones!

I expected to be more impressed with the tt than I was but that probably just speaks volumes about the vio pair. Good news for the wallet as well.


----------



## 13713

gonzfi said:


> Gave the Hugo tt a blast this evening on its own and as a dac for the v281... impressive piece of kit but the v850 + v281 is the winner. The tt sounds more 3 dimensional but the violectric pairing wins on clarity and smoothness. I also find the vio pairing manages to retain a very consistent sound at all volume levels which is good for late night listening with open headphones!
> 
> I expected to be more impressed with the tt than I was but that probably just speaks volumes about the vio pair. Good news for the wallet as well.




V850/V281 with HD800 is amazing. Some say clinical. But I believe it's pure.


----------



## 13713

tonynewman said:


> I have no vinyl, unfortunately. Those are all grabs from Google. All my music is digital - either rips from my CDs or downloads from iTunes.
> 
> I sold my LCD-X. Heavy, cumbersome, and the sound was like listening through a sock compared to the HE6 / HD800. They had excellent bass - but that wasn't enough.
> 
> I have found the HD800S a nice step up from the modded HD800 and a great pairing with the V281. Highly recommended.




I just saw that you have no vinyl. You are lucky stay away. I just moved last year and 5200 and change in records is a giant pain to move. Record players are also a dangerous hobby. If you do ever go vinyl check out the PPAV600 it is a critical part of my rig.


----------



## swjones3

anyone have experience with the v281 with the integrated DAC?


----------



## project86

swjones3 said:


> anyone have experience with the v281 with the integrated DAC?


 
  
  
 Yep, the integrated DAC option is pretty good but not amazing on the same level as the amp portion. I tried the USB 24/192 version and it was certainly competitive for the extra $240 it adds to the bundle. I can't think of another DAC I'd prefer in that price range. But if we start comparing it to stuff like the $399 Grace Design M9XX, well... it's just not as transparent.
  
 I happily recommend grabbing the integrated DAC if you are saving for a V850 or other top level DAC. It would serve as a very enjoyable "in-between" solution until you can upgrade down the road.


----------



## 13713

swjones3 said:


> anyone have experience with the v281 with the integrated DAC?




It is an add on DAC. It will be the weakest link in your system unless you are using MP3 files.

As stated above. If you are using it while saving or waiting for a better DAC it is with it.


----------



## TonyNewman

13713 said:


> I just saw that you have no vinyl. You are lucky stay away. I just moved last year and 5200 and change in records is a giant pain to move. Record players are also a dangerous hobby. If you do ever go vinyl check out the PPAV600 it is a critical part of my rig.


 
  
 Thought about going vinyl - but having another audio system to throw dollars at would destroy me financially.
  
 Solid state 2 channel + solid state headphone + tube headphone - that is plenty enough to shrink my bank balance


----------



## 13713

Yeah vinyl is a religion on its own. Do you think burn in has made the unit better? I noticed you like it more after 30 hours.


----------



## TonyNewman

13713 said:


> .... Do you think burn in has made the unit better? I noticed you like it more after 30 hours.


 
  
 I think so. A little smoother, slightly richer sound. Noticeably better with vocals. The more I use this amp the more I like it.


----------



## JeffMann

13713 said:


> V850/V281 with HD800 is amazing. Some say clinical. But I believe it's pure.


 

 I owned a HD800 for 5 years and my V281 for >1 year, and I have therefore used that combo for > 1 year, and I used to think that the sound combo was "pure" (musically accurate). Now that I have replaced my HD800 with a HE 1000, I realize that the sound was really "clinical". The V281-HE 1000 combo is much more "pure" (musically accurate) to my ears.
  
 Jeff.


----------



## 13713

jeffmann said:


> I owned a HD800 for 5 years and my V281 for >1 year, and I have therefore used that combo for > 1 year, and I used to think that the sound combo was "pure" (musically accurate). Now that I have replaced my HD800 with a HE 1000, I realize that the sound was really "clinical". The V281-HE 1000 combo is much more "pure" (musically accurate) to my ears.
> 
> Jeff.




I will have to try that combination. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Fido2

jeffmann said:


> I owned a HD800 for 5 years and my V281 for >1 year, and I have therefore used that combo for > 1 year, and I used to think that the sound combo was "pure" (musically accurate). Now that I have replaced my HD800 with a HE 1000, I realize that the sound was really "clinical". The V281-HE 1000 combo is much more "pure" (musically accurate) to my ears.
> 
> Jeff.




The HE1000 is just as good if not better than HD800 with classical? I can definitely believe the HE1000 is better with vocals across all the freq range


----------



## TonyNewman

fido2 said:


> The HE1000 is just as good if not better than HD800 with classical? I can definitely believe the HE1000 is better with vocals across all the freq range


 
  
 If only that headphone wasn't $3,000 USD. The V281, even with the relay volume control option (but not the DAC) was significantly less expensive than the HE1000.


----------



## Fido2

Lol....RIGHT!!! Not quite ready to drop that kinda $$ right now.


----------



## lime51

I don't know your experience but I thought that my 281 was burned-in at 100 hours, but now, when it has approximately 200 hours of life I realized that it is again changed... more rich midrange and more warmth...


----------



## TonyNewman

lime51 said:


> I don't know your experience but I thought that my 281 was burned-in at 100 hours, but now, when it has approximately 200 hours of life I realized that it is again changed... more rich midrange and more warmth...


 
  
 Good to know. Running mine 24/7 for the first 2 weeks - that will put 300+ hours on it.
  
 Definitely some improvement for me in the first 50 hours.


----------



## JeffMann

fido2 said:


> The HE1000 is just as good if not better than HD800 with classical? I can definitely believe the HE1000 is better with vocals across all the freq range


 

 I only listen to classical music and opera and my HE1000 sounds significantly more accurate (more musical-sounding) than my HD800 (whether unmodded or Anax-modded) - when both headphones are used in balanced mode with my V281.
  
 Jeff.


----------



## Fido2

Thanks Jeff. I guess I need to audition a pair soon.


----------



## TonyNewman

Any fans of the Ether / Ether C + V281 combination out there?
  
 I have been putting my various headphones through their paces on the V281 and the Ether C is performing extremely well.
  
 The HD800S has a bigger soundstage (as always), and slightly better detail, but the Ether C is better presented down low and up top. Using the V281 definitely improves the treble through the HD800S over the Taurus, but I am still getting some harshness in the top end that can bother me after a while. The Ether C delivers very clean treble without the harshness I am getting from the HD800S.


----------



## TonyNewman

My V281 has been running 24/7 for the past week and now has around 140 hours on it. Over that time the sound has become smoother and developed more 'body' to it. Not sure that is the right audio term, but I think fellow V281 owners will know what I am talking about.
  
 With that many hours on my V281, it is probably the right time for some serious comparative listening between my favorite cans [Ether-C, HD800S, HD800C (mod), HE6 (mod)].
  

  
*The audio chain is:*
 PS Audio P3 -> Auralic Vega DAC (exact mode, filter 4) -> Violectric V281 (balanced output).
 Digital signal is supplied from a PC to the Vega via USB. No EQ used.
  
*All cables are stock. All headphones are stock except as noted below:*
 Ether C - has the manufacturer supplied 'light' filter material applied under the ear pads.
 HD800C - has an 'Anaxilus' mod applied. LINK
 HE6 - BluTak mod, Vegan pads, seatbelt protector over the headband, felt "rings" under the earpads, 'partial fuzor' applied. Full details of these types of mods can be found in the HE6 thread.
  
 A note on the HE6 mods - after having some issues with the treble going 'steely' and 'glassy' I applied a 'partial fuzor'. This involves carefully applying the absorbing material (adhesive felt / foam ... whatever) very gradually and carefully. As soon as the treble issue is fixed, STOP. Applying further damping material risks strangling the wonderful bass these headphones can provide. Again, the HE6 thread has an abundance of detail and discussion on all this. Getting the damping 'just right' transforms this headphone into something very special, as will be shown below.
  
*The test tracks.*
 These represent my tastes and preferences, all picked to test some characteristic across the 4 headphones. Each track was played a number of times per headphone. Once all headphones had been cycled through, I then did it all again and compared notes from the first run. Some tracks got a 3rd or 4th cycle to confirm some results. This takes a few hours to complete and can be tiring - some breaks are needed to keep focus. After dong all this my respect for Tyll (and his review colleagues) went up several notches - this isn't a "Beer and Skittles" activity.
  
*Female Vocals / Bass*
 Roberta Flack, "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face"
 Wendy Matthews, "The Day You Went Away"
 Both these tracks feature beautiful female vocals with a strong bass backing.
  
*Bass / Punch / Slam*
 Robert Palmer, "Some Like It Hot"
 This track should jolt you if the headphone is doing it's job (and the amp / DAC etc ... behind it).
  
*Sibilance / Treble / Female Vocals*
 Shirley Bassey, "Goldfinger"
 This track pushes the top end hard. If there is a problem up there then this track is likely to show it.
  
*Male Vocals*
 Loreena McKennitt, "Carrighfergus"
 Billy Paul, "Me and Mrs, Jones"
 Superb male vocals on both tracks. Deep and rich. Yummy.
  
*Speed / Clarity*
 The Who, "Baba O'Riley"
 The first minute or so of this track can be a challenge for some gear to keep 100% organised (while beyond the scope of this exercise, it is interesting that my Taurus stumbled a little here getting slightly muddy and unorganised compared to the V281). Some of headphones did a little better at this than others.
  
*Engagement / Overall rating*
 Johnny Cash, "Hurt"
 K.D. Lang, "Hallelujah"
 To me these tracks are the answer to the question "Why are we here?" These tracks are powerful and emotionally engaging. The gear should enable the listener to become "lost in the music" and ride that emotional wave. This is my take on how well each headphone does that, taking into account the factors discussed earlier to fudge an overall number.
  
*The numbers:*

  
 Notes:
*Detail* - HD800C/HD800S remain kings here. I can't pick a difference between them on the level of plankton provided - either give it in abundance. Modded HE6 is only slightly behind.
*Bass* - Is there another headphone that can beat a well driven, modded HE6 down low? Perhaps the Abyss can - never heard it so can't say. HD800S does a credible job here. Ether C is very good. HD800C is just not in the game - "limp" is the word I used in my testing notes.
*Speed* - all these headphones are lightning fast.
*Soundstage* - HD800C / HD800S remain supreme here. I did notice that the placement in the HD800C was slightly more precise than the HD800S and also had more air around each source. Not a huge difference, but noticeable. The Ether C does remarkably well for a closed headphone, but really can't compete with the others for soundstage and separation.
*Treble* - Ether C and modded HE6 excel here. Truly excellent treble, even when pushed with my "Goldfinger" test track. HD800S is almost as good, but is _slightly _prone to sibilance and a touch of harshness. Nothing major, but it is noticeable. The HD800C showed both sibilance and harshness in a way that I found unpleasant at times. The mod fixes the treble spike, but not the sibilence or the lingering harshness.
*Punch / Slam* - I would have expected the Ether C to outperform the HD800S/HD800C on this, but they didn't. I repeated this test a number of time to confirm. The HE6 stood tall here - another testament to the power the V281 can feed into this beast.
*Comfort *- The Ether C would have scored much higher here if my ears weren't of elephantine proportions. The cushion opening is relatively  small so I have some comfort issues. Those with 'normal' sized ears should have no problem and treat that number as '8' or '9'. The HE6 is relatively heavy, but I use the Vegan pads and also a seatbelt protector pad on the headband. Taken together this creates a 'pillow effect' and spreads the load across my bald pointy noggin very nicely. Only downside is that it can get a little warm (it is the peak of summer in my part of the world).
*Vocals* - all these cans are very good for male and female vocals. HE6 preferred, but all do a fine job.
*Engagement / Overall* - I found the HD800S to be a significant improvement over the HD800C. The Ether C is a fine headphone, especially for a closed design. The extra level of isolation inbound and outbound is nice to have. The winner is the modded HE6. This headphone is a hassle to mod and the amps that can power it properly are relatively few. The V281 is definitely one of them IMHO. Get the mods 'right' and this headphone can do amazing things.
  
 Taking this a step further, I took my modded HE6 and hooked it up to my new 2 channel setup. The results were spectacular, to say the least. The V281 does great things with the HE6, but it still does not show everything that this headphone can do.
  
*This is the best solid state headphone rig I have ever heard:*

  
 Auralic Vega -> Hegel P20 preamp -> Accuphase P-4200 -> HiFiMan adapter box (rewired for direct connection) -> modded HE6
 This setup takes what the V281 can do with the HE6 and raises it a notch or two. I was using the Taurus as my preamp, but recently bought the Hegel P20 as I wanted a dedicated preamp. The difference this has made in the dynamics and clarity that I am getting out of the HE6 is quite significant. And the bass - oh my - it is so good the temptation is to crank the volume to get more, but that will risk blowing the drivers. Must ... exercise ... restraint ...
  
 I hope folks have found this interesting. I came away with new respect for the V281. It is a stunningly good amp. In my first impressions post a few days ago I was lukewarm on the value in upgrading to the V281 for existing owners of a Taurus - now I am not so sure.
  
 EDIT - the 2 channel setup of Auralic Vega->Hegel P20->Accuphase P-4200->HE6 is technically stunning, but lacks the treble attenuation that dedicated headamps have. Result is that it can get a little bright with extended listening and some fatigue can kick in. So, despite the amazing technical abilities of a HE6 driven this way, I find myself drifting back to the V281 to drive the HE6. Call me fickle.


----------



## Fido2

Thanks Tony for putting in the time! "Elephantine" LMAO. 
Im with you. For the first few hours I was like "Oh no, this amp is not all that." So I let it run for a day or so and when I came back to it it was noticably less strangled or dark. It was way more open, textural, detailed, deep sounding. I literally listen as much as I can now.
My HE6 modded sound fantastic as well on the V281. Im hesitant to try the speaker amp route with HE6 due to my tendancy to "let er rip". Im sure I'll blow something up.


----------



## TonyNewman

fido2 said:


> Thanks Tony for putting in the time! "Elephantine" LMAO.
> Im with you. For the first few hours I was like "Oh no, this amp is not all that." So I let it run for a day or so and when I came back to it it was noticably less strangled or dark. It was way more open, textural, detailed, deep sounding. I literally listen as much as I can now.
> My HE6 modded sound fantastic as well on the V281. Im hesitant to try the speaker amp route with HE6 due to my tendancy to "let er rip". Im sure I'll blow something up.


 
  
 My V281 has changed a lot in the first 150 hours. It might even improve some more - I hope so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (but it is plenty good as is).
  
 Wiring the HE6 to a power amp speaker taps (or an integrated amp speaker taps) is something every HE6 owner should do, just to satisfy themselves on taking the headphone to the limit if nothing else. Definitely need to take care with that volume knob, but the sound!!! Glorious.


----------



## gonzfi

Great to hear how well the amp performs with the HE-6, shame I sold my pair last year. I am currently using the T1 V2 and find it to be a stunning combination with the V281/V850.


----------



## TonyNewman

gonzfi said:


> Great to hear how well the amp performs with the HE-6, shame I sold my pair last year. I am currently using the T1 V2 and find it to be a stunning combination with the V281/V850.


 
  
 I have heard great things about the T1. If I didn't already have the HD800S I would be giving it serious thought.


----------



## mulder01

Also a good combo


----------



## 13713

mulder01 said:


> Also a good combo




I would love to try those headphones sometime. At that amount I would get a Stax setup though...


----------



## TonyNewman

13713 said:


> I would love to try those headphones sometime. At that amount I would get a Stax setup though...


 
  
 I can't get past the looks. Kinda reminds me of...


----------



## mulder01

^ yeah they're weird-lookin'
  
 Man, they sound good though
   
  
 Quote:


13713 said:


> I would love to try those headphones sometime. At that amount I would get a Stax setup though...


 
  
 Don't be so sure until you've tried them!  I didn't care about them before I tried them but then I had a listen and all that changed.  This amp is more than suitable for them too.


----------



## TonyNewman

> Don't be so sure until you've tried them!  I didn't care about them before I tried them but then I had a listen and all that changed.  This amp is more than suitable for them too.


 
  
 Any amp that drive the HE6 as well as this amp does can also do the business on the Abyss.
  
 Best info I can find on the Abyss is that it has fantastic bass - perhaps the best ever from a headphone + excellent mids - but let down in the treble. Kinda like an Audeze on steroids. Not my thing. I like more balanced/neutral headphones - HD800S / HE6 / Ether C.


----------



## plakat

I used to own the Abyss and drove it with the V281. More than enough power... But I don't hear them as anything like Audeze LCD2/3. Ultimately sold the Abyss because it's rather impractical and I simply did not use it anymore. Kept the V281 though.


----------



## zikarus

Thinking about an upgrade to my setup. Can anyone judge by own experience how the V281 compares to a Jan Meier Cordia HA-2?


----------



## musicbuff

tonynewman said:


> Any fans of the Ether / Ether C + V281 combination out there?
> 
> I have been putting my various headphones through their paces on the V281 and the Ether C is performing extremely well.
> 
> The HD800S has a bigger soundstage (as always), and slightly better detail, but the Ether C is better presented down low and up top. Using the V281 definitely improves the treble through the HD800S over the Taurus, but I am still getting some harshness in the top end that can bother me after a while. The Ether C delivers very clean treble without the harshness I am getting from the HD800S.


 
 Totally agree with the "harshness in the top end that bothers me after a while." I get that through my HD 800 classic sometimes. Contemplated getting the "S" but just ordered a Hifiman HE-6 instead. I must say your comparative listening analysis had a lot to do with my decision. I love sparkle in my highs, but not shrieky, sibilant highs that cause discomfort and disruption in my listening pleasure. Seems like the HE-6 will tick all my boxes. You say the Violectric can drive them well. If I love them as much as I hope, the HD 650 will be relegated to TV and movies (they're awesome in that capacity) and the HD 800 will more than likely be sold off. Depends on how good the HE-6 is with jazz, acoustic instruments and classical (the HD 800 almost never disappoints me in those genres except when there's a vocalist who may go sibilant). The HE-6 should be here Thursday, can't wait.
  
 One last thing, some folks talk about turning the volume up around 11 o'clock.  I can barely stand my knob turned between 7 and 8. Anything past that would blow my brains out. At what volume do you listen?


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

musicbuff said:


> One last thing, some folks talk about turning the volume up around 11 o'clock.  I can barely stand my knob turned between 7 and 8. Anything past that would blow my brains out. At what volume do you listen?




Not all DACs output the same voltage, some even differ SE vs balanced. That might explain why those people's brains are still inside


----------



## TonyNewman

coldassault said:


> Not all DACs output the same voltage, some even differ SE vs balanced. That might explain why those people's brains are still inside


 
  
 Spot on,. I use an Auralic Vega which has very hot output of 4.2V RMS. The average is around 2.0 to 2.5V RMS, so the Vega throws a lot of juice.
  
 I have never bothered with the gain settings on the V281 because I don't need to. I never have the gain knob beyond the 12 o'clock position with the HE6 for music. Louder than that is going to give me a concussion and a nose bleed.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicbuff said:


> ... Depends on how good the HE-6 is with jazz, acoustic instruments and classical (the HD 800 almost never disappoints me in those genres except when there's a vocalist who may go sibilant). The HE-6 should be here Thursday, can't wait...


 
  
  
 HE6 performance is very dependent on modding it correctly. The HE6 thread has lots of info and pictures on how to do it. I would recommend the BluTak mod + Fuzzor (of some form) + felt rings under the earpads + remove the grills completely + vegan pads. Experiment and find what works for you - that is part of the fun (and sometimes frustration). Get it right and the HE6 is amazing. The V281 is one of the few headamps with the nuts to drive it really well. Once modded it still retains some basic HE6 characteristics - slightly recessed mids being one of them - but overall a great headphone.
  
 Spent more time with the HD800S + V281 combination and put a bunch more hours on my new V281. The treble harshness is still there but much, much less of a problem than it was before. Not so for the HD800C - sibilance and treble harshness are much more pronounced for this headphone vs the HD800S. Whatever magic Sennheiser have done with the HD800S in the top end doesn't just address the treble peak - it reduces harshness and sibilance also IMHO.


----------



## musicbuff

tonynewman said:


> HE6 performance is very dependent on modding it correctly. The HE6 thread has lots of info and pictures on how to do it. I would recommend the BluTak mod + Fuzzor (of some form) + felt rings under the earpads + remove the grills completely + vegan pads. Experiment and find what works for you - that is part of the fun (and sometimes frustration). Get it right and the HE6 is amazing. The V281 is one of the few headamps with the nuts to drive it really well. Once modded it still retains some basic HE6 characteristics - slightly recessed mids being one of them - but overall a great headphone.
> 
> Spent more time with the HD800S + V281 combination and put a bunch more hours on my new V281. The treble harshness is still there but much, much less of a problem than it was before. Not so for the HD800C - sibilance and treble harshness are much more pronounced for this headphone vs the HD800S. Whatever magic Sennheiser have done with the HD800S in the top end doesn't just address the treble peak - it reduces harshness and sibilance also IMHO.


 
 I modded my 800 Classic so I guess I'll be modding the HE-6, too. I may eventually trade the Classic in for the S since you say the harshness and sibilance of the S is greatly reduced. Those 2 things are what's most disruptive about the Classic for me. I could deal with the soft (at times) bass response and be happy, but that "ice-pick-to-the-brain-out-of-nowhere" characteristic is a big drawback. Maybe a cotton ball stuffed in some strategic spot around the Classic's driver might be a cheap solution to the absorber they've placed in the S to cut back on sibilance...just joking.


----------



## 13713

tonynewman said:


> HE6 performance is very dependent on modding it correctly. The HE6 thread has lots of info and pictures on how to do it. I would recommend the BluTak mod + Fuzzor (of some form) + felt rings under the earpads + remove the grills completely + vegan pads. Experiment and find what works for you - that is part of the fun (and sometimes frustration). Get it right and the HE6 is amazing. The V281 is one of the few headamps with the nuts to drive it really well. Once modded it still retains some basic HE6 characteristics - slightly recessed mids being one of them - but overall a great headphone.
> 
> Spent more time with the HD800S + V281 combination and put a bunch more hours on my new V281. The treble harshness is still there but much, much less of a problem than it was before. Not so for the HD800C - sibilance and treble harshness are much more pronounced for this headphone vs the HD800S. Whatever magic Sennheiser have done with the HD800S in the top end doesn't just address the treble peak - it reduces harshness and sibilance also IMHO.




Thanks this is great info. One of the great things about the 800 is that it has dropped in price now that the S has come out. The 800 now can be a great entry level into the hi end tier that was not accessible before to many people. I need to research mods for the HE-6 as that will be my next headphone purchase and a lot of people in the community have a lot of suggestions for modding this particular headphone.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicbuff said:


> ... that "ice-pick-to-the-brain-out-of-nowhere" characteristic is a big drawback. ...


 
 I hear you. I found the only way I could enjoy the modded HD800C was from a tube amp. Anything solid state, particularly a bright-ish amp like my Taurus, was "ice-pick-through-the-scrotum" territory.
  
 The HD800S can still go a little harsh or sibilant in the treble, but not so often and not so severely, particularly from the V281. I could live with the HD800S + V281 combination with no major problems. It's rather good


----------



## JeffMann

tonynewman said:


> HE6 performance is very dependent on modding it correctly. The HE6 thread has lots of info and pictures on how to do it. I would recommend the BluTak mod + Fuzzor (of some form) + felt rings under the earpads + remove the grills completely + vegan pads. Experiment and find what works for you - that is part of the fun (and sometimes frustration). Get it right and the HE6 is amazing. The V281 is one of the few headamps with the nuts to drive it really well. Once modded it still retains some basic HE6 characteristics - slightly recessed mids being one of them - but overall a great headphone.
> 
> Spent more time with the HD800S + V281 combination and put a bunch more hours on my new V281. The treble harshness is still there but much, much less of a problem than it was before. Not so for the HD800C - sibilance and treble harshness are much more pronounced for this headphone vs the HD800S. Whatever magic Sennheiser have done with the HD800S in the top end doesn't just address the treble peak - it reduces harshness and sibilance also IMHO.


 

 I am not surprised that the treble harshness is still present with the HD800S because they have only added a resonator to try to decrease the treble peak problem that definitely exists in the original HD800.  My Anax-modded HD800 helped tame the treble harshness to a small degree, but I only got good (neutral) treble with the V281 when I purchased a HE1000 headphone. I cannot praise the HE 1000 enough - it is an outstanding headphone. I was originally worried (before I purchased the HE 1000 without first auditioning it)  that is may be too "soft-sounding" and lack a fast transient attack, but I don't have that problem. I actually think that it has a faster transient attack than my HD800 headphones, and the treble never sounds slow or too smooth.
  
 Jeff.


----------



## TonyNewman

jeffmann said:


> I am not surprised that the treble harshness is still present with the HD800S because they have only added a resonator to try to decrease the treble peak problem that definitely exists in the original HD800.  My Anax-modded HD800 helped tame the treble harshness to a small degree, but I only got good (neutral) treble with the V281 when I purchased a HE1000 headphone. I cannot praise the HE 1000 enough - it is an outstanding headphone. I was originally worried (before I purchased the HE 1000 without first auditioning it)  that is may be too "soft-sounding" and lack a fast transient attack, but I don't have that problem. I actually think that it has a faster transient attack than my HD800 headphones, and the treble never sounds slow or too smooth.
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
 Good to know. I would be unlikely to get a chance to audition the HE1000 either - so would have to purchase blind as well.


----------



## JeffMann

tonynewman said:


> Good to know. I would be unlikely to get a chance to audition the HE1000 either - so would have to purchase blind as well.


 

 If you purchase the HE1000 directly from the HiFiMan company, you can return it within 30 days if you do not like its sound quality and you will receive a full refund (minus shipping costs).
  
 Jeff.


----------



## Fido2

jeffmann said:


> If you purchase the HE1000 directly from the HiFiMan company, you can return it within 30 days if you do not like its sound quality and you will receive a full refund (minus shipping costs).
> 
> Jeff.




Whoa!!  man this place will absolutely wreck a wallet. ..haa!


----------



## musicbuff

Anybody know if the Hifiman HE-6 is more detailed than the Audeze LCD-X?


----------



## TomNC

musicbuff said:


> Anybody know if the Hifiman HE-6 is more detailed than the Audeze LCD-X?


 
 Yes. IMHO, the HE-6 sounds more detailed than the LCD-X. Though I only owned the HE-6 for about 8 months but only listened to the LCD-X at a meeting. I also had the LCD-3 for about 6 months. HE-6 is more resolving than the LCD-3 too.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicbuff said:


> Anybody know if the Hifiman HE-6 is more detailed than the Audeze LCD-X?


 
  
 Frankly, a pair of Beats is going to be more detailed than the LCD-X.
  
 OK, I exaggerate, but you get the idea. My modded HE6 is slightly, and I mean slightly, behind my HD800C/HD800S for detail retrieval.
  
 EDIT - I am a former owner of the LCD-X, current owner of HE6/HD800C/HD800S.


----------



## musicbuff

tomnc said:


> Yes. IMHO, the HE-6 sounds more detailed than the LCD-X. Though I only owned the HE-6 for about 8 months but only listened to the LCD-X at a meeting. I also had the LCD-3 for about 6 months. HE-6 is more resolving than the LCD-3 too.


 
 Was your HE-6 modded and if so in what way(s) and what headphone amp did you use with it? If the HE-6 is paired with the EF-6 HP amp does it still need mods?


----------



## TomNC

Yes. My HE-6 was modded as follows.
  
  
 "Removing the original grill and some fibers inside. Bought a pair of laser cut computer fan grill from Amazon. I had to remove the edges with a file and other tools. To bad they were very easier to break. Therefore you are seeing those ugly super glued traces. But they are doing their job.

 I noticed some of the surfaces of the plastic grill were relatively large. I thought they might reflect sounds in one direction, causing undesired distortion. So I attached thin felt inside those surfaces. You can see or feel the felt. This is the only part unique to this pair of phones."
  
 I used it with Taurus Mk2 and some vintage receivers including the Rotel RX-1603.
  
 I do not have experience with EF-6. But I believe, as many head-fiers may testify to,  the HE-6 can benefit from mods, regardless of the amps and DACs.
  
 The mod is simple and reversible. It significantly opens the phones and removes the nervousness in trebles. Other people also mod to improve bass, but I am not a basshead and did not have the desire to alter the bass from the original.


----------



## project86

jeffmann said:


> If you purchase the HE1000 directly from the HiFiMan company, you can return it within 30 days if you do not like its sound quality and you will receive a full refund (minus shipping costs).
> 
> Jeff.


 
  
  
 This, or you can also try the headphone lending library option from The Cable Company. They should have most headphones available and if you don't buy it doesn't cost too much. But if you do buy the rental fee counts towards the purchase.


----------



## novaca

Has anyone had a chance to compare v281 with some Cavalli amplifier?


----------



## musicbuff

tonynewman said:


> Frankly, a pair of Beats is going to be more detailed than the LCD-X.
> 
> OK, I exaggerate, but you get the idea. My modded HE6 is slightly, and I mean slightly, behind my HD800C/HD800S for detail retrieval.
> 
> EDIT - I am a former owner of the LCD-X, current owner of HE6/HD800C/HD800S.


 

  
  


tomnc said:


> Yes. My HE-6 was modded as follows.
> 
> 
> "Removing the original grill and some fibers inside. Bought a pair of laser cut computer fan grill from Amazon. I had to remove the edges with a file and other tools. To bad they were very easier to break. Therefore you are seeing those ugly super glued traces. But they are doing their job.
> ...


 
 My HE-6 is nearing 200 hours burn-in and sound incredible with the Violectric V281.  TonyNewman, how did you mod your 6's to make them so incredibly close to the HD 800's in detail retrieval? TomNC, are there pictures of your modded HE-6 and what "nervousness in the trebles" did you experience? I'm just enjoying the 6's so much over the LCD-X for the 6's detail retrieval and balance, and HD 800 for the 6's full sound and bass impact. It's hard to imagine it can get even better.


----------



## project86

novaca said:


> Has anyone had a chance to compare v281 with some Cavalli amplifier?


 
  
 Only their older Liquid Fire which I really didn't care for much. The V281 is quite a bit better in my opinion... I'd take a V220/V200/V181 over the Liquid Fire as well. No clue on the more recent Cavalli models.


----------



## novaca

project86 said:


> Only their older Liquid Fire which I really didn't care for much. The V281 is quite a bit better in my opinion... I'd take a V220/V200/V181 over the Liquid Fire as well. No clue on the more recent Cavalli models.


 
 Thanks for your insights. I have a short time together v200 and Liquid Carbon and I'm starting to prefer LC.
 ...and interested me as it is with the higher models.


----------



## phonomat

Interesting; could you specify why you liked the LC over the V200?


----------



## novaca

phonomat said:


> Interesting; could you specify why you liked the LC over the V200?


 
 First impression:
 V200 is slower.
 LC is more dynamic, has a tighter and clearer bass.
 LC can also be operated balanced even if you have just SE DAC (v200 has balanced input but output is SE).
 Balanced does LC indeed another step better
 I'll see over time if my preferences will shift...


----------



## Jimmy6

Hi all!

Just wanted to get your opinion on whether it's worth grabbing the V281 despite already having the chord Hugo.

I'll be running the HD800S and few of my Ciems.

I did get a chance to demo the HD800S balanced out of my chord Hugo to the V281 and the sound was breath taking! The signal was coming out my iPhone 6 connected to the Hugo but it was good!

Would it be a waste of money only using the Hugo as a dac for the V281?

The sound with my current setup is pretty good! But now that I've heard the V281, that is in another league.

Is it worth splurging the extra $$ for a desktop (non-portable amp) or am I just indulging now??

Cheers!
James


----------



## Fegefeuer

The V281 eats the Hugo's amp alive.
  
 The guy who bought my HD800 brought a Hugo with him and "even" my Valhalla 2 already beat it with the HD800.


----------



## frankraindog

fegefeuer said:


> The V281 eats the Hugo's amp alive.
> 
> The guy who bought my HD800 brought a Hugo with him and "even" my Valhalla 2 already beat it with the HD800.


 
 If this is true, Rob Watts must be lying in his post, over in the hugo thread


----------



## Fegefeuer

frankraindog said:


> If this is true, Rob Watts must be lying in his post, over in the hugo thread


 
  
 Why? Where exactly in which context?
 Plus why should he not regard his own product higher than others? I mean, isn't it natural for a vendor/creator? 
  
 What I offer you is my own experience and that of the guy who bought my HD800. He also bought my TH-900 btw.


----------



## project86

Hugo has an exceptionally "clean" sound to the headphone out. Sometimes that's desirable. Other times not as much. Where it falls short imho is musicality, and drive with some of the more difficult headphones. V281 has both (musicality and drive) in spades which is why it works so well for me.


----------



## Jimmy6

So would the "clean" sound of the Hugo being sent to the V281 be wasted? Or would that be complimenting the V281?



project86 said:


> Hugo has an exceptionally "clean" sound to the headphone out. Sometimes that's desirable. Other times not as much. Where it falls short imho is musicality, and drive with some of the more difficult headphones. V281 has both (musicality and drive) in spades which is why it works so well for me.


----------



## mulder01

jimmy6 said:


> So would the "clean" sound of the Hugo being sent to the V281 be wasted? Or would that be complimenting the V281?


 
  
 Sorry to state the obvious here, but if you are in Sydney couldn't you just pop down to a2a and bring your headphones and hugo and demo the v281 for yourself?


----------



## Jimmy6

I did actually demo it there, but my question was would having such an expensive DAC (Chord Hugo) be wasted if it was only going to be used in conjunction with the V281.

Seems like a waste as the chord Hugo does alright on its own as a DAC/AMP combo.

A friend told me that that it is kind of a waste to dilute or polute the clean signal of the chord into an AMP.

So I was wanting to get an opinion on whether it'd be a waste of money buying the V281 in addition to the chord Hugo.

Otherwise I may be better off selling the chord Hugo and grabbing the V281 and a less expensive DAC if that makes sense ?


----------



## mulder01

That is a weird question... You're saying it like the Hugo deserves a better amp, in which case I think you don't give the vio enough credit. What amp does your friend think would be worthy of being plugged into the almighty Hugo?

Anyway my 2c -

Firstly - don't worry about what other people think is a 'waste' or not - go by what you hear and like. In some people's system the dac is the most expensive part.

If it was me in your position I would compare the hugo+v281 which you already tried vs v850 (or v800) + v281 and see if you think there's much difference between the dacs. If not, sell the hugo and put the money toward the new system to make it more affordable. But also consider the difference between those and the hugo by itself - if you're happy with the hugo, it costs you $0 in system upgrades and you have the advantage of portability - the moment you buy one piece of desktop gear you're anchored to the desk - is the fact that you have to sit in one spot from now on a concern? If the difference between the hugo and vio gear isn't massive to you, and you use the hugo anywhere else besides your computer desk, it seems like you'd be crazy to get rid of it...

I would have thought that since the hugo is a pretty analytical piece of gear and so is the hd800, the sound might be a bit sterile when combined so maybe replacing the hugo with the v281 will bring a bit more musicality to the system? 

A little while ago I was trying the v850 vs yggy into the v281 and since the v850 has a volume control, you can match the volume levels of the two dacs by using the XLR out of the v850 with the volume dialled back a bit and the rca's out of the hugo and instantly switch between XLR and RCA on the v281. You can loop the spdif in and out of the v850 or whatever so that the one source can output digital to both dacs at the same time and both dacs can output into the v281 at the same volume at the same time to make the comparison easier - you can just switch back and forward between xlr and rca and instantly compare the 2 dacs at the same volume at the same part of the song. If you don't think you'd miss the hugo dac too much you can comfortably sell it then knowing that you're comfortable with the comparison...


----------



## PopcornAddict

mulder01 said:


> That is a weird question... You're saying it like the Hugo deserves a better amp, in which case I think you don't give the vio enough credit. What amp does your friend think would be worthy of being plugged into the almighty Hugo?
> 
> Anyway my 2c -
> 
> ...


 

 Did you make notes/compare the 850 vs Yggy? Please post if so, I'm very curious of their differences and characteristics


----------



## project86

I think perhaps what was implied is that the "purity" of the Hugo system is lost when using an external amp. Which I don't find to be the case at all. I like the Hugo in the right context but for me the biggest weak spot is the headphone out.... I just can't handle it with HD800 or similar analytical headphones. V281 sounds better and works with everything so it's worth it for me. If all I ever listened to was something like a TH900 I might stick with Hugo alone.


----------



## mulder01

popcornaddict said:


> Did you make notes/compare the 850 vs Yggy? Please post if so, I'm very curious of their differences and characteristics


 
  
 I honestly heard nothing.  Not a damn thing, sorry...  
  
 Though that has been my experience with every dac I've tried so far so I'm probably the wrong person to ask.


----------



## Jimmy6

Hi Mulder,
  
 Thanks for your reply. 
  
 I was able to get a longer demo session with the Hugo, V281, HD800S as well as my CIEMs. 
  
 In the end, I figured it sounded maybe a little bit better than just using the Hugo on it's own. There's a bit more body, but the sound signature is essentially the same. I couldn't justify spending that much more money for a slight improvement, whilst being tethered to my desk. 
  
 My friend ended up purchasing the V281 and I was able to demo them with a different dacs (IFI and Apogee). With the Apogee one the sound was a lot better. More rich and 3D sounding. Then again, that DAC was purchased about 4 grand used for studio use. 
  
 At this stage, I'm not prepared to spend that much to purchase an expensive DAC to go with the V281. So I'll just save up for now, and maybe something better will come along, or good DACs will be better priced. 
  
 Cheers
 James
  
 Quote:


mulder01 said:


> That is a weird question... You're saying it like the Hugo deserves a better amp, in which case I think you don't give the vio enough credit. What amp does your friend think would be worthy of being plugged into the almighty Hugo?
> 
> Anyway my 2c -
> 
> ...


----------



## Jimmy6

Perfect and Spot on project86.
  
 That was what I meant about the purity of the Hugo system. I also found the HD800 a bit boring paired with the Hugo. 
  
 However, with the HD800S it sounds a lot better, so it's still works for me at the moment. 
  
 I'm pretty sure the V281 would sound good with most headphones, but as I only have one Full-size headphone, and mostly iems, then I'll just wait till I amass a bigger collection. 
  
 Quote:


project86 said:


> I think perhaps what was implied is that the "purity" of the Hugo system is lost when using an external amp. Which I don't find to be the case at all. I like the Hugo in the right context but for me the biggest weak spot is the headphone out.... I just can't handle it with HD800 or similar analytical headphones. V281 sounds better and works with everything so it's worth it for me. If all I ever listened to was something like a TH900 I might stick with Hugo alone.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicbuff said:


> ... TonyNewman, how did you mod your 6's to make them so incredibly close to the HD 800's in detail retrieval? ...


 
  
 Blutak mod + vegan pads + grid removal + under earpad felt rings + fuzzor.
  
 I tried running the HE6 without the fuzzor - the treble was nasty - had to put the fuzzor back. I am using a partial fuzzor with adhesive sorbothane. I would get laughed out of the HE6 thread for doing that - don't care - it works for me.
  
 As good as the modded HE6 is with the V281, I am finding the HD800S only a short distance behind it for performance. Throw in the amazing comfort factor of the HD800S and I am finding myself torn between these 2 cans. V281 drives them both superbly.
  
 I am running my V281 with full boost - the '4' setting for +12dB gain. This works for me when driving the HE6 and HD800S. I don't notice any SQ change for doing this, but it is hard to tell with the delay in shutting down the amp to change the settings. Anyone have any comments on the gain settings regarding SQ?
  
 EDIT - I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the bass response of my HE6 is better with the gain at +12dB. Really getting some punch and slam. Liking it.


----------



## Fido2

I think the long process of turning the amp off etc is to "dummyproof" any possible mishaps. Just turn the volume all the way down and flip the switches...


----------



## musicbuff

tonynewman said:


> Blutak mod + vegan pads + grid removal + under earpad felt rings + fuzzor.
> 
> I tried running the HE6 without the fuzzor - the treble was nasty - had to put the fuzzor back. I am using a partial fuzzor with adhesive sorbothane. I would get laughed out of the HE6 thread for doing that - don't care - it works for me.
> 
> ...


 

 Are you using Hifiman vegan pads or some other brand?  I did the grill removal mod replacing the stock grill and inside fuzz with wire from a stainless steel mesh strainer and covering it with black knee high panty hose.  Wow talking about air and wide soundstage  I tried the fuzzor mod with open beaded shelf liner then self adhesive felt.  They're both very good at taming the treble.  Just that the self adhesive felt adheres better where as I had to glue the shelf liner which got brittle after drying and didn't hold (should've tried double sided tape). I've got blutak on the way and will do that mod when available. Got pics of your sorbothane?
  

  


 I've also got hifiman vegan pads on the way (I destroyed the original pair experimenting).


----------



## TonyNewman

I think my vegans are from Audeze. It is a couple of years since I purchased them so I don't really remember.
  
 The blutak mod really helps tighten up the bass response.


----------



## TonyNewman

fido2 said:


> I think the long process of turning the amp off etc is to "dummyproof" any possible mishaps. Just turn the volume all the way down and flip the switches...


 
  
 I won't be doing that anytime soon. I'm happy to follow the manufacturer's recommendation on this one. Besides, I have found my preference with the '4' setting with the HE6 (also works fine with the HD800S). I will be sticking with that.


----------



## Fido2

tonynewman said:


> I won't be doing that anytime soon. I'm happy to follow the manufacturer's recommendation on this one. Besides, I have found my preference with the '4' setting with the HE6 (also works fine with the HD800S). I will be sticking with that.




I just turned the volume all the way down and tried mine this morning. Tried the +6db and the +12db then back to 0. Just more volume at a lower pot setting IMO...absolutely no problems with the amp doing it that way.


----------



## Xanthos

Hello everyone,
  
 New owner here with a V281 on the way! I have one question. I have a balanced DAC and would prefer to hook the amplifier up as balanced. However, I only have a single ended cable at the moment. Do the non-balanced outputs work when the V281 is set up as balanced?


----------



## sandalaudio

xanthos said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> New owner here with a V281 on the way! I have one question. I have a balanced DAC and would prefer to hook the amplifier up as balanced. However, I only have a single ended cable at the moment. Do the non-balanced outputs work when the V281 is set up as balanced?


 
  
 Yes. Both the single ended and the balanced headphone outputs will work simultaneously regardless of whether you have an RCA or XLR connection from the DAC.
  
 It would be better to get hold of a pair of balanced headphones to make full use of the V281 though single ended also sounds very good.


----------



## Xanthos

sandalaudio said:


> Yes. Both the single ended and the balanced headphone outputs will work simultaneously regardless of whether you have an RCA or XLR connection from the DAC.
> 
> It would be better to get hold of a pair of balanced headphones to make full use of the V281 though single ended also sounds very good.


 

 I definitely am, I just need to procure some extra funds. Do all three outs work simultaneously?


----------



## ken6217

sandalaudio said:


> Yes. Both the single ended and the balanced headphone outputs will work simultaneously regardless of whether you have an RCA or XLR connection from the DAC.
> 
> It would be better to get hold of a pair of balanced headphones to make full use of the V281 though single ended also sounds very good.


 

 When using a balanced headphone cable, you are getting two V220 amps.


----------



## sandalaudio

xanthos said:


> I definitely am, I just need to procure some extra funds. Do all three outs work simultaneously?


 
  
 Yes, so you have to be careful not to leave stuff plugged in that could potentially blow up at high volumes.
  
 Also, something that's hard to tell, but the left hand side 6.35mm socket is inverted output, while the right hand side is non-inverted.
 That means you can potentially drive two headphones without each impedance affecting one another.
  
 There is also a special jumper switch inside that can turn the two 6.35mm sockets into L/R balanced outputs, kind of like Resonessence Invicta or Sony PHA-3 style balanced, or converted to 2 x 3pin XLR with an adaptor.
  
 They think of everything...


----------



## musicbuff

xanthos said:


> I definitely am, I just need to procure some extra funds. Do all three outs work simultaneously?


 

 Bought my V281 during the after holiday sale and was offered free XLR or RCA Violectric cable (chose the XLR and it's a great cable).  If you bought your amp from Violectric you might inquire if they're still offering the free cable.


----------



## Xanthos

So I bit the bullet and purchased a balanced headphone cable to go with my new amplifier. Something that keeps jumping out at me is the widening soundstage. I didn't listen to the amp single ended, but compared to my DAC, it seems huge. Has anyone else noticed this? It plays with my mind when I hear an unbalanced stereo audio signal such as Iheartradio, or some YouTube videos. I have to look over at my DAC meter for reassurance that yes one channel is louder than the other. I'll gladly live with that.


----------



## whill

Hi!
  
 I read some reviews that Violectric sounds a little warm as compared to typical sound of a solid state amplifer. Does anyone here uses Violectric with HD800s (in balanced connection)
  
 Any impressions?
  
 If its also allowed in this thread, how do you compare the Violectric to the Bryston BHA1? Mainly because these two are on my list.  
  
 Thank you so much!


----------



## PleasantSounds

whill said:


> Hi!
> 
> I read some reviews that Violectric sounds a little warm as compared to typical sound of a solid state amplifer. Does anyone here uses Violectric with HD800s (in balanced connection)
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you're considering these two for the HD800, then in my view the V281 is a better choice. It is warmer then the BHA-1, but actually it feels more right. The warmth associated with the Violectric amps is mostly due to the V800. V281 is a bit like that in the SE mode, but when you run balanced it is actually quite neutral.


----------



## whill

Thank you Mr. PleasantSounds on your input. I will try to have a demo of the Violectric and the BHA-1.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## yc1204

Ok. Time for me to join this thread. Just returned my Auralic Taurus mk2 and bought the V281 VC2 with silver feet and silver panel. Still waiting for the balanced DHC Silver Complement 4 to ship out for my Ether. Gonna connect it to my Zodiac Platinum DAC by XLR. Can't wait to try them out!


----------



## whill

Hi Mr. YC1204

May i kindly ask why did you return the Auralic? 

Thank you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## yc1204

whill said:


> Hi Mr. YC1204
> 
> May i kindly ask why did you return the Auralic?
> 
> ...




Simply because it sounds better with my Ether to my ear. No point to keep both amps so i just return it.


----------



## ken6217

whill said:


> Hi Mr. YC1204
> 
> May i kindly ask why did you return the Auralic?
> 
> ...


 

 As an aside, before I got my V281, I had messaged a few different people that had owned both amps and they all sold the Taurus.


----------



## whill

yc1204 said:


> Simply because it sounds better with my Ether to my ear. No point to keep both amps so i just return it.


 
  
 Thank you Mr. yc1204
  


ken6217 said:


> As an aside, before I got my V281, I had messaged a few different people that had owned both amps and they all sold the Taurus.


 
  
 Thank you Mr. ken6217, i am still confused to whether choose Violectric or the Bryston BHA1. hehehe.
  
 I will do some more research because in the place where i am at, they don't sell both that is why i cannot demo it.


----------



## sandalaudio

whill said:


> Thank you Mr. yc1204
> 
> Thank you Mr. ken6217, i am still confused to whether choose Violectric or the Bryston BHA1. hehehe.
> 
> I will do some more research because in the place where i am at, they don't sell both that is why i cannot demo it.


 
  
 Just my 2 cents worth, I spent about a year looking around for a good solid amp (to replace my Grace Design m903), and had very serious listening sessions with Taurus II, BHA-1 and V281, fortunately all sitting side by side in a same shop.
  
 I also listened to around a dozen other analogue headphone amps along the way, but I eventually ended up buying the V281 (with volume option 1 and no DAC), because I ultimately preferred it over the Taurus and Bryston.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The V280 has been announced
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/803271/violectric-hpa-v280-slim-and-powerful-balanced-hpa
  
 a little yet still powerful brother of the V281.


----------



## yc1204

Looking forward to try the V281 with LCD4 soon couple weeks later, will share my impression by then.


----------



## Mortalcoil

We cant wait


----------



## Ty89m

So, worth moving to V281 over my new V200 that arrived last week? Wondering if I'd be better off upgrading Bifrost 4490 to the V850 instead of spending so much on V281, my HD800S have the balanced cable, but is the 281 worth the significant invesment if I just purchased the V200 (which I like quite a lot)?


----------



## yc1204

ty89m said:


> So, worth moving to V281 over my new V200 that arrived last week? Wondering if I'd be better off upgrading Bifrost 4490 to the V850 instead of spending so much on V281, my HD800S have the balanced cable, but is the 281 worth the significant invesment if I just purchased the V200 (which I like quite a lot)?


 
 If you run balance headphones, the V281 is a huge step improve from the V200.


----------



## Ty89m

yc1204 said:


> If you run balance headphones, the V281 is a huge step improve from the V200.




Damn, so sticking with the Bifrost and swapping to 281 would be a better choice vs sticking with V200 and uprgrading dac to V850 etc?


----------



## yc1204

ty89m said:


> Damn, so sticking with the Bifrost and swapping to 281 would be a better choice vs sticking with V200 and uprgrading dac to V850 etc?


 
 With your situation I would say upgrade the amp 1st for balance output. The price range of your DAC selections won't make huge diference until you chose a better amp to drive your headphones.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## sandalaudio

ty89m said:


> Damn, so sticking with the Bifrost and swapping to 281 would be a better choice vs sticking with V200 and uprgrading dac to V850 etc?


 
  
 I think there is a big improvement going for a balanced amp V281 compared to upgrading the DAC.
  
 DAC will change the flavour of the sound which you may or may not enjoy, whereas going from V200 to V281 will give an objective power increase which a lot of headphones can benefit from.
  
 Also, there is no need to buy a balanced DAC and interconnect, because the XLR balanced input on V281 turns single-ended internally anyway. It's not a fully balanced operation end-to-end, so it doesn't matter too much about whether the DAC you are using is balanced or single ended, unless you are running a 10m cable or something.
  
 It's important to make the distinction clear about balanced connection for line level signals (e.g. from a DAC) vs. balanced driving of headphones.
 The reason why V281 is praised is because of the good sounding balanced headphone amplifier circuit, which both the balanced and single ended line input can benefit from.


----------



## ken6217

ty89m said:


> So, worth moving to V281 over my new V200 that arrived last week? Wondering if I'd be better off upgrading Bifrost 4490 to the V850 instead of spending so much on V281, my HD800S have the balanced cable, but is the 281 worth the significant invesment if I just purchased the V200 (which I like quite a lot)?


 

 Using the V281 with balanced headphones = two V220's.


----------



## Ty89m

Excellent, sounds like there's still a benefit to running my HD800S balanced via 281, if I wait on DAC investment. Would any of you consider the V281 end game for solid state, or at least nice enough to not gimp the HD800?


----------



## project86

ty89m said:


> Excellent, sounds like there's still a benefit to running my HD800S balanced via 281, if I wait on DAC investment. Would any of you consider the V281 end game for solid state, or at least nice enough to not gimp the HD800?


 
  
 It's end game for me as far as SS amps go. Right up there with the HeadAmp GS-X mkII, Simaudio 430HA, and dual mono Questyle CMA800R. I have two of those three here now (and have had the other extensively) and V281 is definitely in the running for top honors.
  
 I agree with whoever it was that suggested upgrading the amp first and then maybe the DAC down the road. Or just spend time enjoying the V200 as it is still a very nice amp!


----------



## Fegefeuer

project86 said:


> It's end game for me as far as SS amps go. Right up there with the HeadAmp GS-X mkII, Simaudio 430HA, and dual mono Questyle CMA800R. I have two of those three here now (and have had the other extensively) and V281 is definitely in the running for top honors.
> 
> I agree with whoever it was that suggested upgrading the amp first and then maybe the DAC down the road. Or just spend time enjoying the V200 as it is still a very nice amp!




It will be my endgame as well. One day. 

Then i only need a successor to the TH-900


----------



## mulder01

I've had my v281 for a year or so and don't really feel any need to upgrade. I think any upgrade is going to mean a lot of money and very small improvement.


----------



## ken6217

project86 said:


> It's end game for me as far as SS amps go. Right up there with the HeadAmp GS-X mkII, Simaudio 430HA, and dual mono Questyle CMA800R. I have two of those three here now (and have had the other extensively) and V281 is definitely in the running for top honors.
> 
> I agree with whoever it was that suggested upgrading the amp first and then maybe the DAC down the road. Or just spend time enjoying the V200 as it is still a very nice amp!


 
  
 The V281 has much more impact than the 430HA in my listening.


----------



## yc1204

Decided to get the V281. Still thinking about which end game headphones I need to get. Thinking about 2 in between the Abyss and LCD4...
  
 Anyone heard both can share some opinion? Mainly piano violin musics and female vocal etc.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

project86 said:


> It's end game for me as far as SS amps go. Right up there with the HeadAmp GS-X mkII, Simaudio 430HA, and dual mono Questyle CMA800R. I have two of those three here now (and have had the other extensively) and V281 is definitely in the running for top honors.
> 
> I agree with whoever it was that suggested upgrading the amp first and then maybe the DAC down the road. Or just spend time enjoying the V200 as it is still a very nice amp!




I feel sad to not see the Taurus mk2 up there in your post


----------



## Ty89m

Thanks guys, I sold the V200, as I'm committed to stepping up to something a bit higher up the chain - have considered the GSX MkII but a wee bit more than I'm wanting to spend, and have been looking the Taurus MK II as well. Really fond of the Violectric stuff though, really dig the looks (which I know aren't to everyone's tastes).


----------



## ken6217

I had both the Taurus mk2 and the Sim 430HA in my house along with the V281. Only the V281 remains. 

I know 3 other people on Headfi that sold the Taurus for the V281. 

I haven't heard the GSX mk2 but I think it is brighter than the V281.


----------



## Cobold

No doubt for  me V281 is definetly better than the Taurus MKII.
 Single ended and Balanced.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

cobold said:


> No doubt for  me V281 is definetly better than the Taurus MKII.
> Single ended and Balanced.


 
 Can you elaborate please? 
  
@project86: My earlier impression was that you preferred the V281's tonal characteristics over the Taurus MK2. Are you now saying, after owning them both a lot longer, that the V281 is technically the better device? 
 (so technical capabilities vs tuning, of which the latter might be possible to correct with EQ - or am I getting this wrong?)


----------



## Cobold

I came from V200 to Bryston BHA-1.
  
 I made the Comparision between V281, BHA-1 and Taurus.
 Taurus in my ears had maybe more detail than Bryston but no pleasure to listen.
 I sure would have stayed with the Bryston.
 V281 is more musical and shows more room and fine information to me than the others.
 Got the V281 end of 2014. Just made the update to the big remote because I think this is the one to keep.
 At least for now. 
  
 Headphones are K812 unbalanced and T1 balanced.


----------



## ken6217

I did not hear the Taurus single ended. But I believe that the Taurus balanced versus the V281 single ended is better. Idk about single ended versus single ended. 

It is the V281 balanced where it shines as it then is basically 2 V200 amps in one. Maybe someone else can shine some light on the single ended versus single ended.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

ken6217 said:


> I did not hear the Taurus single ended. But I believe that the Taurus balanced versus the V281 single ended is better. Idk about single ended versus single ended.
> 
> It is the V281 balanced where it shines as it then is basically 2 V200 amps in one. Maybe someone else can shine some light on the single ended versus single ended.


 
  
 I'm running balanced. So how would Taurus mk2 balanced compare to V281 balanced according to your experience?


----------



## ken6217

coldassault said:


> I'm running balanced. So how would Taurus mk2 balanced compare to V281 balanced according to your experience?


 

 What I had been referring to in my earlier posts that V281 balanced is better than the Taurus balanced.
  
 When it comes to single ended, I have no experience.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

ken6217 said:


> What I had been referring to in my earlier posts that V281 balanced is better than the Taurus balanced.
> 
> When it comes to single ended, I have no experience.




Yes I got that. But please define/elaborate "better". There are so many aspects that can be affected by better: tonality, detail extraction, soundstage, dynamics, transient response,...


----------



## ken6217

coldassault said:


> Yes I got that. But please define/elaborate "better". There are so many aspects that can be affected by better: tonality, detail extraction, soundstage, dynamics, transient response,...


 

 When I get my new job as a hifi reviewer, I can answer all those points. I will say that it has more slam and not as forward sounding as the Taurus.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Over the weekend I have rearranged my setup to see how the V281 performs as a speaker preamp.
  
 Result? I'm not going back to the previous arrangement, in which Lynx Hilo was doing the honors! The sound is more organic, more fun, while not losing any of the clarity, detail or spatial precision. If anything, the soundstage has gained some depth.
  
 Definitely worth trying!


----------



## ab_ba

Hey PleasantSounds, I agree! My V281 works wonderfully as a preamp. I just figured out that you can configure it to bypass the volume knob and provide a line-level output, if your amp has a volume knob. To do it, hold down the "line" button for a couple seconds till it flashes. Then, press "XLR" to bypass the volume knob (and "Dig" to re-activate the volume knob.) A cool feature!


----------



## ab_ba

> Originally Posted by *yc1204* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Thinking about 2 in between the Abyss and LCD4...
> 
> Anyone heard both can share some opinion? Mainly piano violin musics and female vocal etc.


 
 I've heard the Abyss, and I have LCD-3's. I have not heard the LCD-4. I would not get the Abyss if you are interested in female vocals. Get the Abyss if you're into 80s hair metal. I do like vocals on the LCD-3, but I prefer them on my HD800. I'll bet they'd be even better on the HD800S. I believe the 800S comes with a balanced cable, too, which you will want with your Vio. Have fun!


----------



## TonyNewman

mulder01 said:


> I've had my v281 for a year or so and don't really feel any need to upgrade. I think any upgrade is going to mean a lot of money and very small improvement.


 
  
 It's endgame for me as far as SS amps go. Sold my 430HA and Taurus - grew to be unhappy with both of them. The V281 goes from strength to strength. Love this brutish shoe box of an amp. I can't think of anything it doesn't do well.
  
 No amp upgrade from the V281 for me, but did it did prompt me to upgrade my DAC. Jumped form the Vega to the Hegel HD30. For the first 200 hours I was wondering where my money went. It was a 5% improvement, if that. To differentiate the DACs in a blind test would have been difficult, if not impossible. From 200 to 400 hours the HD30 has changed and improved markedly. First the treble, and now the mids, are wonderfully smooth, detailed and dynamic. That lingering hint of treble harshness that seems to haunt many Sabre DACs, including the Vega, is gone. Bass is just stunning. Sound stage is 3D, large and has precise positioning with the HD800S with plenty air around each source. Where the Vega sound stage could be 'fuzzy' and indistinct for sources, the HD30 is laser-like precise.
  
 Not a cheap DAC, but to me it represents good value as the improvement over the Vega is significant. The V281 is good enough to take advantage of such an excellent DAC and showcase what it can do. I think the HD30 + V281 combination has improved my setup by about 20% over the Vega + V281. That is huge at this level.
  
 Here's a pic of the setup with my favorite headphone - a heavily modded HE6 - which the V281 drives superbly.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Tony, did you listen to the V850 yet?


----------



## TonyNewman

fegefeuer said:


> Tony, did you listen to the V850 yet?


 
  
 Nope - not seen or heard it. Not sure it would be a step upwards from the Vega (but I don't know).
  
 I live in New Zealand, so the chance to go 'hands on' with high end gear is limited. Folks don't stock much of it, for obvious reasons, so unless you have a buddy who has the gear you are left buying blind. That can be risky. I have had some wins (V281 / Accuphase P-4200 / Hegel P20 / Hegel HD30 / HE6 / HD800S) and some losses that will remain unnamed to protect the guilty.
  
 The Hegel P20 preamp performs so well that I have become a bit of a Hegel fanboi - so when the HD30 became available it got my interest. After replacing my previous SS amps with the V281, the weakest link in my setup was my DAC, so I took a bet that the HD30 would give my system a lift. It surely has done that. Quite a boost. I had no idea what I was missing. The Vega is a very good DAC, but the V281 is good enough to take advantage of a better DAC unit.
  
 On the topic of the V281 - what an excellent amp. If I had to nitpick (and I am getting petty here, so bear with me) the bass is perhaps not quite as sharp and well defined as the Taurus. Just a touch of "boominess" in there. Not much, just a fraction. Happy to make that trade anytime for everything else that the V281 does so very, very well.


----------



## zeissiez

Has anyone compared the V281 to the Audio-GD Master 9?


----------



## Thenewguy007

tonynewman said:


> It's endgame for me as far as SS amps go. Sold my 430HA and Taurus - grew to be unhappy with both of them. The V281 goes from strength to strength.


 
  
 What did you not like with the 430HA & Taurus compared to the V281?


----------



## TonyNewman

thenewguy007 said:


> What did you not like with the 430HA & Taurus compared to the V281?


 
  
 430HA - slow, veiled, lacking dynamics and punch. Perhaps the most over rated product in HeadFi at the moment.
  
 Taurus - a little bright and could get a little muddled in complex music. Lacks the oomph to drive the HE6 properly. Otherwise a very good amp. This was my "go to" SS amp for a couple of years before I decided to "upgrade" to the 430HA (mistake), then went to the V281 (bang on the money).
  
 As always, these are my impressions. YMMV.


----------



## project86

I really quite like the Simaudio. It reminds me of a nicer Bryston BHA-1... solid performing headphone amp from a "mainstream" high-end brand, perhaps not the _best _available at the price but certainly no slouch either, and easy to find/buy for those audiophiles who aren't knowledgeable about smaller/more focused brands.
  
 I do prefer the V281 as a better value but the 430HA is excellent in its own way.


----------



## TonyNewman

I found it had strayed much too far from the "wire with gain" model for my tastes. My view is that an amp should, above all else, but true to the source material in terms of speed, dynamics, punch, detail. Both the Taurus and the V281 do this very well, but differently. The 430HA does not - it is slow, veiled and soft. It can be very engaging and entertaining with the right genres of music, but it just fails as am amp for me. Build quality and functionality are superb, but that was irrelevant to me as the primary function of the unit as an amp was compromised. As always, YMMV.
  
 After being disappointed in the 430HA, and unhappy with the brightness of the Taurus and its inability to drive the HE6 properly, I did some more research and took a chance on the V281 and have been very happy with it. Powerful, detailed, dynamic and with a touch of warmth that the Taurus lacked. Perhaps not quite the same level of iron control of the bass as the Taurus - it can get a little bit "boomy" - otherwise an excellent amp.


----------



## casper3127

Hi there!

Has anyone have the chance to compare an Audio-gd Master11 with the Violectric monster?

Thx in advance.


----------



## zeissiez

Audio-GD's big boys like Master 9 or Master 11 should be considered too, as Dan of Headfonia pointed out that in most aspects it's a better amp than 430HA. Comparison here: https://headmania.org/2015/03/08/simaudio-moon-430ha-headphone-amplifier-review/
  
 At USD1550, it looks like a bargain too. http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/Master-9/Master-9EN.htm
  
 It would be good to hear from someone who have compared the V281 and Master 9, particularly in driving cans like HE6 and HE1000.


----------



## Ultrainferno

zeissiez said:


> Audio-GD's big boys like Master 9 or Master 11 should be considered too, as Dan of Headfonia pointed out




There is no Dan in my staff


----------



## zeissiez

ultrainferno said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > Audio-GD's big boys like Master 9 or Master 11 should be considered too, as Dan of Headfonia pointed out
> ...




Oops, sorry, I mean Headmania, lol ....


----------



## manpowre

€'s sent to the lakish people, and in 3 days they will ship it once money arrived.. can't wait with Hegel HD25 Nordost cables, and LCD3.


----------



## yc1204

manpowre said:


> €'s sent to the lakish people, and in 3 days they will ship it once money arrived.. can't wait with Hegel HD25 Nordost cables, and LCD3.


 
 I believe you gonna love them. Recommend to drive your LCD3 with balance tho, balance out is the strong point of V281


----------



## manpowre

yc1204 said:


> I believe you gonna love them. Recommend to drive your LCD3 with balance tho, balance out is the strong point of V281


 
 yep, already running balanced here.. just missing that last punch..


----------



## TonyNewman

I never run my V281 using anything other than the balanced output. That wonderful 'holographic" effect of the V281 doesn't seem to happen for me when using single ended output. I am guessing the dual amps is what is making that magic happen. I don't know of any other SS amp that does this (my previous SS amps - Taurus and 430HA - did not do it). Something that better tube amps seem to do.
  
 I am enjoying the heck out of this amp. Current rig is Hegel HD30->V281->HD800S. Really nice setup. I can't get over the bass improvement in the HD800S over the modded HD800 - great headphone. Only my modded HE6 beats it, and not by much, and that after many hours spent modding and re-modding the HE6. The HD800S you can take out of the box, attached the balanced cable, plug it into the V281 and enjoy the music.
  
 Here's a pic of my V281 setup.


----------



## project86

Agreed on balanced, though I do use SE with IEMs and it works well (obviously the extra power from balanced mode is not needed). 
  
 I've been meaning try try some Hegel gear. I like their philosophy.


----------



## manpowre

tonynewman said:


> I never run my V281 using anything other than the balanced output. That wonderful 'holographic" effect of the V281 doesn't seem to happen for me when using single ended output. I am guessing the dual amps is what is making that magic happen. I don't know of any other SS amp that does this (my previous SS amps - Taurus and 430HA - did not do it). Something that better tube amps seem to do.
> 
> I am enjoying the heck out of this amp. Current rig is Hegel HD30->V281->HD800S. Really nice setup. I can't get over the bass improvement in the HD800S over the modded HD800 - great headphone. Only my modded HE6 beats it, and not by much, and that after many hours spent modding and re-modding the HE6. The HD800S you can take out of the box, attached the balanced cable, plug it into the V281 and enjoy the music.
> 
> Here's a pic of my V281 setup.


 
  
  
 Why not use the Hegel bypass and allow the Amp do the volume adjustment ?


----------



## TonyNewman

manpowre said:


> Why not use the Hegel bypass and allow the Amp do the volume adjustment ?


 
  
 I am. The display on the HD30 is the source information (USB/44).
  
 I don't use the digital volume control at all - it is set to bypass "101" - the volume control is via the V281.
  
 I do the same thing with my 2 channel system - the volume control is via the preamp (Hegel P20).
  
 If they offered a version of the DAC with no digital volume control at all I would have bought that. Not sure why manufacturers feel the need to offer the digital volume control.


----------



## project86

tonynewman said:


> I am. The display on the HD30 is the source information (USB/44).
> 
> I don't use the digital volume control at all - it is set to bypass "101" - the volume control is via the V281.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Because it can be useful, and if you don't need it just set to max volume. That's the same as not having it in the first place (or at least it should be on a well designed component).


----------



## TonyNewman

project86 said:


> Because it can be useful, and if you don't need it just set to max volume. That's the same as not having it in the first place (or at least it should be on a well designed component).


 
  
 It was useful on the Vega with its off-the-wall 4.2V RMS output. The HD30 has a much more sane output of 2.6V RMS - not sure I can see a need to ever want to mess with that.
  
 Does make it possible to run the HD30 direct to a power amp, but that isn't something I would ever want to do. I would be quite happy if the DAC didn't have it.


----------



## Thenewguy007

tonynewman said:


> I never run my V281 using anything other than the balanced output. That wonderful 'holographic" effect of the V281 doesn't seem to happen for me when using single ended output. I am guessing the dual amps is what is making that magic happen. I don't know of any other SS amp that does this (my previous SS amps - Taurus and 430HA - did not do it). Something that better tube amps seem to do.


 
  

 So you are getting better imaging from the V281 in comparison to the others?


----------



## TonyNewman

thenewguy007 said:


> So you are getting better imaging from the V281 in comparison to the others?


 
  
 Yes. On par with better tube amps that I have heard.


----------



## yc1204

People who use V281 to power the LCD4, could you please let me know what is the gain setting and volume of your V281 at balanced out? Should I raise the gain to +6db or even +12db? 
  
 Cheers


----------



## mulder01

Personally I think you don't need to increase pre-gain unless your are close to running out of gain on your volume knob... Otherwise you're just hitting your preferred listening volume earlier on the volume dial.


----------



## TonyNewman

I mostly use the HE6, and with quieter source material like the audio on some downloaded TV and movies the extra gain is an absolute necessity. I set mine to the max setting and left it there. Works fine with the HE6 and HD800S for me.


----------



## Mortalcoil

tonynewman said:


> 430HA - slow, veiled, lacking dynamics and punch. Perhaps the most over rated product in HeadFi at the moment.
> 
> Taurus - a little bright and could get a little muddled in complex music. Lacks the oomph to drive the HE6 properly. Otherwise a very good amp. This was my "go to" SS amp for a couple of years before I decided to "upgrade" to the 430HA (mistake), then went to the V281 (bang on the money).
> 
> As always, these are my impressions. YMMV.


 
  
  
 I realize that this is the v281 appreciation thread and all but with all due respect Tony not long ago you were singing the praises of both mentioned amps as if they were the second coming of the Lord All Mighty.
  
 Countless posts prove how you once felt the "Tauras nailed it" or the "430HA reigned supreme" so on and son and so on........to FANBOY Supreme levels of enthusiasm.  And now here we are with the v281 and its "God like" amp holiness.
  
 If I was a betting man I would bet that in a few weeks if not a few months you will find something else that destroys the v281 on all accounts.
  
 You Sir go through amp infatuation like candy.


----------



## ken6217

mortalcoil said:


> I realize that this is the v281 appreciation thread and all but with all due respect Tony not long ago you were singing the praises of both mentioned amps as if they were the second coming of the Lord All Mighty.
> 
> Countless posts prove how you once felt the "Tauras nailed it" or the "430HA reigned supreme" so on and son and so on........to FANBOY Supreme levels of enthusiasm.  And now here we are with the v281 and its "God like" amp holiness.
> 
> ...


 

 There's nothing wrong with trying new equipment and finding out that it surpasses what you already own. Isn't that part of the fun of the hobby?
  
 I actually tried that same path (except the Taurus first) and I have the same findings as he did. So he's guilty of being loving what he has until he finds something else that he likes better. I think I also did that with women.


----------



## TonyNewman

mortalcoil said:


> I realize that this is the v281 appreciation thread and all but with all due respect Tony not long ago you were singing the praises of both mentioned amps as if they were the second coming of the Lord All Mighty.
> 
> Countless posts prove how you once felt the "Tauras nailed it" or the "430HA reigned supreme" so on and son and so on........to FANBOY Supreme levels of enthusiasm.  And now here we are with the v281 and its "God like" amp holiness.
> 
> ...


 
  
 And I wonder what motivates you to post this? A financial imperative of some description? It seems that HEadFi is stalked by those wanting to push certain products, ready to pounce on anyone that has something negative to say.
  
 Rather address the characteristics (flaws) of the 430HA you would rather attack me. Why? Have I hit on something real here? And what is a 430HA pusher doing in the V281 thread? *Do you even own a V281?* Or are you just here to push/protect the 430HA?
  
 Getting back to what you raised - I have been quite kind to the Taurus. It has some limitations compared to the V281, but is still a good amp. I said that above.
  
 The 430HA is musical and warm. Build quality and functionality are excellent. I was infatuated with it at first - yes. It took me a while, and some serious A/B blind testing, to realize it is also deeply flawed (IMHO).
  
 Am I going to be stalked on every thread whenever the 430HA comes up? Are there folks searching HeadFi for any mention of the 430HA, ready to leap to its defense, using whatever tactics suit their purpose? Sure feels like it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Funny discussion actually. People tend to rave about certain gear till they hear better/other gear. Typical headfi to conclude things (too?) quickly 
(Not saying Tonyxxx is one of those guys, but it is a general trend. Nothing new)


----------



## mulder01

I suppose you don't know how good something can be until you hear it though - I find the most difference is discovered when you go BACK to something. Back in the day I thought my Ultrasone Edition 8's plugged into my ipod was the best thing since sliced bread. Then I tried the LCD 2/3/X and was like holy crap these are so much better - these are the best things ever. Then I heard the Abyss and I was like holy crap everything else is rubbish except for these. And when you go back to something you previously loved the crap out of, you turn your nose up at yourself thinking "I can't believe I thought these sounded good"

Of course, YMMV


----------



## Badas

mortalcoil said:


> I realize that this is the v281 appreciation thread and all but with all due respect Tony not long ago you were singing the praises of both mentioned amps as if they were the second coming of the Lord All Mighty.
> 
> Countless posts prove how you once felt the "Tauras nailed it" or the "430HA reigned supreme" so on and son and so on........to FANBOY Supreme levels of enthusiasm.  And now here we are with the v281 and its "God like" amp holiness.
> 
> ...




That's harsh. Have you never heard anything better than what you have got?

It happens all the time. :rolleyes:


----------



## manpowre

mortalcoil said:


> I realize that this is the v281 appreciation thread and all but with all due respect Tony not long ago you were singing the praises of both mentioned amps as if they were the second coming of the Lord All Mighty.
> 
> Countless posts prove how you once felt the "Tauras nailed it" or the "430HA reigned supreme" so on and son and so on........to FANBOY Supreme levels of enthusiasm.  And now here we are with the v281 and its "God like" amp holiness.
> 
> ...


 
 Offcourse there will be a new unit competing as the makers compete in a commercial market with us being the customers. Some like Tony can afford purchasing unit after unit, and can give the rest of us some good user-reviews than the commercial counterparts can give us. If Tony finds something better, he might change. and in a few months I do hope something that kicks one of the best amps for head fi down.. and this vendor can compete again with a new unit.
  
 My V281 will arrive monday


----------



## ken6217

mulder01 said:


> I suppose you don't know how good something can be until you hear it though - I find the most difference is discovered when you go BACK to something. Back in the day I thought my Ultrasone Edition 8's plugged into my ipod was the best thing since sliced bread. Then I tried the LCD 2/3/X and was like holy crap these are so much better - these are the best things ever. Then I heard the Abyss and I was like holy crap everything else is rubbish except for these. And when you go back to something you previously loved the crap out of, you turn your nose up at yourself thinking "I can't believe I thought these sounded good"
> 
> Of course, YMMV




I had a similar experience like that years ago. I had a good 2 channel amp and had borrowed a Levinson amp for an afternoon to hear how it sounded. I listened and liked it but wasn't sure how much better it was until I returned it and hooked my amp back up. The first thing I immediately thought was "where's the bass"?

Btw, if you look through the profiles of members you will see a list of current gear as well a long list of past gear. I'm sure they loved all of those at one time.


----------



## Mortalcoil

I stick to my opinion .....in a few months the v281 will be yesterdays news to make room for the current FOTM.
  
 My post was not meant as an attack more as an observation.  Some people suffer from extreme New Toy Syndrome and gush about it to the extreme.


----------



## ken6217

mortalcoil said:


> I stick to my opinion .....in a few months the v281 will be yesterdays news to make room for the current FOTM.
> 
> My post was not meant as an attack more as an observation.  Some people suffer from extreme New Toy Syndrome and gush about it to the extreme.


 

 Yea but why the observation? It's unnecessary. Sounds more like you're upset that he doesn't love the amp that you both once had. Seems more personal than anything. We should keep the forum about the equipment.


----------



## Mortalcoil

I am entitled to my opinion as well as my obesrvations, as you are.


----------



## manpowre

I think attacking someone that personal is out of bonds! yes, your observations about equipment sure, but not personal attacks..
  
 I think a moderator should look into this now.


----------



## ken6217

mortalcoil said:


> I am entitled to my opinion as well as my obesrvations, as you are.


 

 But your opinion and observation is on the person and not the equipment.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Your strong insecurity and flamboyant anger towards someone who doesn't value your gear anymore is telling. I just flew over your post history and it confirmed everything to me. Please leave this thread alone and stop claiming to have an opinion because it clearly does not meet the topic of this thread: the V281.


----------



## mulder01

I suppose nobody posts about it on this thread, but I wonder if anyone who had a v281 went to something else in a similar price range (or even a bit above) and claims it is a v281 killer... I don't think I've seen that yet...


----------



## Badas

No TonyNewMan post since being attached. That's a pity. Not a really good way of gathering multiple impressions.


----------



## manpowre

mulder01 said:


> I suppose nobody posts about it on this thread, but I wonder if anyone who had a v281 went to something else in a similar price range (or even a bit above) and claims it is a v281 killer... I don't think I've seen that yet...


 
  
 I think with LCD4 being 200 ohms, we will probably soon see more powerful Amps coming to the market.


----------



## yc1204

manpowre said:


> I think with LCD4 being 200 ohms, we will probably soon see more powerful Amps coming to the market.




The V281 has more than enough power for the 200ohm LCD4. My V281 at normal gain and single end out to the LCD4, volume sits at 9 oclock and its so loud already. The balance out would be even a lot stronger.


----------



## project86

Wow, some excitement while I was away!
  
 I will say, there's nothing wrong with someone expressing their opinions either for or against a component, whether it is in a thread dedicated to that component or not. You have experience? I don't mind hearing it. It's then up to me to determine how much weight I place on that experience, based at least in part from your other posts around here.
  
 I also don't see anything wrong with pointing out someone's history. Maybe it could be done in a more tactful way.... but still.


----------



## TonyNewman

project86 said:


> Wow, some excitement while I was away!
> 
> I will say, there's nothing wrong with someone expressing their opinions either for or against a component, whether it is in a thread dedicated to that component or not. You have experience? I don't mind hearing it. It's then up to me to determine how much weight I place on that experience, based at least in part from your other posts around here.
> 
> I also don't see anything wrong with pointing out someone's history. Maybe it could be done in a more tactful way.... but still.


 
  
 This situation was something different. A 430HA fan taking a personal shot at someone for daring to say something critical of their pet device. Classic case of playing the man, not the ball. Does this person own a V281? Unlikely - not on their gear list. Have they ever heard one? Not sure - doubt it. If they had they might begin to realise that the 430HA is not so special.
  
 You can have some warmth and musicality in an amp without sacrificing speed, punch and detail - something Simaudio seem to have overlooked. I really think that their proprietary "transconductance circuit topology" is a great idea that just doesn't work - to my ears the results are inferior to a traditional amp circuit design. YMMV on that, as always.
  
 As far as my "history" goes - I owned and enjoyed the Taurus for 2 years. It was, and is, a fine amp. The V281 is better - I think significantly better - but that doesn't stop the Taurus from still being a good piece of gear. The 430HA I was very disappointed in.
  
 To each their own. By all means voice any disagreements you might have with my views - that is what the forum is for - but that is different to hurling slurs at people.


----------



## ken6217

tonynewman said:


> This situation was something different. A 430HA fan taking a personal shot at someone for daring to say something critical of their pet device. Classic case of playing the man, not the ball. Does this person own a V281? Unlikely - not on their gear list. Have they ever heard one? Not sure - doubt it. If they had they might begin to realise that the 430HA is not so special.
> 
> You can have some warmth and musicality in an amp without sacrificing speed, punch and detail - something Simaudio seem to have overlooked. I really think that their proprietary "transconductance circuit topology" is a great idea that just doesn't work - to my ears the results are inferior to a traditional amp circuit design. YMMV on that, as always.
> 
> ...




 My take on it is that this guy probably followed Tony's posts and saw that he liked the 430 HA and then purchased it. He then saw that Tony was onto a new amp. Now he's questioning his purchase.


----------



## TonyNewman

ken6217 said:


> My take on it is that this guy probably followed Tony's posts and saw that he liked the 430 HA and then purchased it. He then saw that Tony was onto a new amp. Now he's questioning his purchase.


 
  
 If I misled anyone with my initial enthusiasm - then Mea Culpa. My initial thoughts on the 430HA were very positive. It took me quite a while to realise that the warmth and musicality of the 430HA came at the cost of speed / punch / detail. 
  
 I doubt I am the first or the last person to get wrapped up in a new piece of kit, only to realise later on that it wasn't quite the wonder machine it seemed to be.


----------



## Mortalcoil

ken6217 said:


> My take on it is that this guy probably followed Tony's posts and saw that he liked the 430 HA and then purchased it. He then saw that Tony was onto a new amp. Now he's questioning his purchase.


 
  
 I assure you I was'nt following TonyNewman and his posts and as a matter of fact I have had some complimentary things to add to some of his postings. In some instances giving him props for his       
 system and so on.
  
 Having been a member here since 2005 I tend not to follow trends, I audition gear first and purchase based on what my ears find pleasing not someone elses.
    
    
  


tonynewman said:


> This situation was something different. A 430HA fan taking a personal shot at someone for daring to say something critical of their pet device. Classic case of playing the man, not the ball. Does this person own a V281? Unlikely - not on their gear list. Have they ever heard one? Not sure - doubt it. If they had they might begin to realise that the 430HA is not so special.
> 
> You can have some warmth and musicality in an amp without sacrificing speed, punch and detail - something Simaudio seem to have overlooked. I really think that their proprietary "transconductance circuit topology" is a great idea that just doesn't work - to my ears the results are inferior to a traditional amp circuit design. YMMV on that, as always.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 No slurs were used against you Tony and I did refer to the term "with all due respect" which I meant.  Unfortunately posting my critique was taken the wrong way and other peoples remarks only added fuel to the fire
  
 causing much drama.  Lets leave it at that and just enjoy your v281 Tony as I will my 430.  Apologies for the tone that the post was taken.
  
 Water under the bridge as they say


----------



## TonyNewman

Great - lets all move on


----------



## manpowre

My unit is stuck in clearance in Oslo norway  I was hoping for it to arrive today, but its gonna be monday as UPS stated on their website hehe.. 
 It is interesting you write about speed Tony. Its the same I read bout yggdrassil dac, and Im working on a method to try to measure the dac's speeds.. Together with the V281 it must be amazing where HIFI is going. to high resolution DACs with very very accurate amplifiers like the V281.
  
 Wonder how a cymbal sounds on your setup. what I read is that the reproduction of a cymbal has a small after echo on normal DAC's and amplifiers. But with chips like the on ygdrasil uses together with eg. the V281 that has got reviews for being very accurate the sound must change specifically and should be able to measure the after echo after an instrument as a cymbal ?


----------



## Xyfas

Good day folks. Im considering getting this amp and was hoping if someone can chime in on how it sounds compared to the Woo Audio WA7+tp. I have a HE1000 and love how the wa7 sounds through it, seems I love the tube warm/fat sound. I'd love to audition this amp but I would have to go out of country to do so.
  
 TIA


----------



## yc1204

I found either the V281 or my Zodiac Platinum are very sensitive to cables (Have not tried power cables yet). I was using a $150 Furutech USB cable and a $280 Oyaide Tunami Tzero interconnect to feed signals from the Zodiac to the V281. Yesterday i received my newly purchased Kimber KS2436 AG USB cable and the Audience AU24 SX interconnect XLR cable (which worth $1100 and $2200). Plug them on and initially i found the sound changed, on a very positive side. I have already put 10 hours on these new set up, and now i have to conclude that cable do able to bring significant change to sound, especially when your system is sensitive to them. 

Also another thing i found is, i adjusted the pregain setting from original +-0db to -6 and then to -12db, i found the sound become more and more musical when the gain gets lower. And even at -12db, the volume of my 200ohm LCD4 single end out from the V281 never go over 50% (12o'clock)!!!! I can't wait to receive the XLR balanced cable from DHC and try the balance out now. Such a powerful monster amp......


----------



## yc1204

xyfas said:


> Good day folks. Im considering getting this amp and was hoping if someone can chime in on how it sounds compared to the Woo Audio WA7+tp. I have a HE1000 and love how the wa7 sounds through it, seems I love the tube warm/fat sound. I'd love to audition this amp but I would have to go out of country to do so.
> 
> TIA




Personally im not a fan of tube amps. But their WA5 sounds very good. I have not heard the WA7 yet but if you like neutral to warm sounding, i would recomend the V281. A very powerful SS amp and beats all tube amps in its price range imo.


----------



## thomascrown

Hi, I've just bought a used v281, more to satisfy my curiosity than for actual need (I own a taurus as Tony). I won't write anything about the sound quality as it's too early, still I've found the volume pot the weakest point of the amp: mine it's the stepped one with the remote and with the gain at 0 db I found the remote useless (source gumby xlr) and barely able to find a sweet spot by hand, at -6db it starts getting reasonable, but the remote it's still jumping from quiet to loud in a click, at -12 the volume starts behaving as it's supposed to. Now, the Taurus hasn't this problem at all but some minor unbalance at lower volumes. It's weird as I remember a reviewer claiming +12db as ideal to drive the xc.


----------



## yc1204

thomascrown said:


> Hi, I've just bought a used v281, more to satisfy my curiosity than for actual need (I own a taurus as Tony). I won't write anything about the sound quality as it's too early, still I've found the volume pot the weakest point of the amp: mine it's the stepped one with the remote and with the gain at 0 db I found the remote useless (source gumby xlr) and barely able to find a sweet spot by hand, at -6db it starts getting reasonable, but the remote it's still jumping from quiet to loud in a click, at -12 the volume starts behaving as it's supposed to. Now, the Taurus hasn't this problem at all but some minor unbalance at lower volumes. It's weird as I remember a reviewer claiming +12db as ideal to drive the xc.




+12db of V281 for XC? I don't think it would work that way. Even -12db the V281 already too loud at 12 o'clock...

Unless you mean +12db of Taurus to drive the XC?


----------



## thomascrown

Crazy eh? The Taurus doesn't have input gain. 
http://headphone.guru/violectric-hpa-v281-balanced-headphone-amp-dac/


----------



## Poladise

xyfas said:


> Good day folks. Im considering getting this amp and was hoping if someone can chime in on how it sounds compared to the Woo Audio WA7+tp. I have a HE1000 and love how the wa7 sounds through it, seems I love the tube warm/fat sound. I'd love to audition this amp but I would have to go out of country to do so.
> 
> TIA


 
  
 I also love "tube warm/fat sound". With V281 I get more of a tube warm/ thin sound though. Was quite surprised how much less body there is compared to V200. The V281 is about the same as my o2 amp for fatness. I've been comparing the two quite a bit:
  
 o2 has more clarity in the bass and a little stronger undercurrent of sub bass. 
 V281 seems slightly out of focus in comparison. Reminds me of what TonyNewman posted before "not quite the same level of iron control of the bass as the Taurus"
  
 o2 has slightly cooler and harder midrange.
 V281 has the tube tone/warmth that makes it more musical sounding. 
  
 o2 is a clearer picture overall, but V281 has this wide and vivid upper mid/low treble detail/presence that's not heard on the o2.
 Quite impressed with the V281, but I might still move onto something more full sounding.


----------



## Xyfas

poladise said:


> I also love "tube warm/fat sound". With V281 I get more of a tube warm/ thin sound though. Was quite surprised how much less body there is compared to V200. The V281 is about the same as my o2 amp for fatness. I've been comparing the two quite a bit:
> 
> o2 has more clarity in the bass and a little stronger undercurrent of sub bass.
> V281 seems slightly out of focus in comparison. Reminds me of what TonyNewman posted before "not quite the same level of iron control of the bass as the Taurus"
> ...


 
 Thank you kind sir. Good on comparing with the O2 since I'm familiar with is as well.


----------



## yc1204

poladise said:


> I also love "tube warm/fat sound". With V281 I get more of a tube warm/ thin sound though. Was quite surprised how much less body there is compared to V200. The V281 is about the same as my o2 amp for fatness. I've been comparing the two quite a bit:
> 
> o2 has more clarity in the bass and a little stronger undercurrent of sub bass.
> 
> ...




Not sure why you use O2 to compare with the V281 but V281 is completely different level compares to O2. The O2 good at its own price range, but sounds too thick, lack of clearity and detail compares to many solid state amps that even lower price than the V281. Also the O2 is not neutral at all because of its fatty boomy sounding. 

Also you can only compare the single end output as the O2 has no balance output. Which imo balance out of V281 is a lot more stronger than its single end out.


----------



## manpowre

Would it be fair to compare Oppo HA-1 analogue part (same Hegel HD25 dac) with the V281 ?


----------



## project86

thomascrown said:


> Hi, I've just bought a used v281, more to satisfy my curiosity than for actual need (I own a taurus as Tony). I won't write anything about the sound quality as it's too early, still I've found the volume pot the weakest point of the amp: mine it's the stepped one with the remote and with the gain at 0 db I found the remote useless (source gumby xlr) and barely able to find a sweet spot by hand, at -6db it starts getting reasonable, but the remote it's still jumping from quiet to loud in a click, at -12 the volume starts behaving as it's supposed to. Now, the Taurus hasn't this problem at all but some minor unbalance at lower volumes. It's weird as I remember a reviewer claiming +12db as ideal to drive the xc.


 
  
 That is very odd. Each step on the volume control is .75dB so there should be plenty of room to dial it in just right.


----------



## Poladise

yc1204 said:


> Not sure why you use O2 to compare with the V281 but V281 is completely different level compares to O2. The O2 good at its own price range, but sounds too thick, lack of clearity and detail compares to many solid state amps that even lower price than the V281. Also the O2 is not neutral at all because of its fatty boomy sounding.
> 
> Also you can only compare the single end output as the O2 has no balance output. Which imo balance out of V281 is a lot more stronger than its single end out.


 
  
 I can't think of any reason not to compare amps you own, even if they're in vastly different price ranges. Not sure if you read all my post before, but I said I noticed the V281 thickness of sound is more like my o2 rather than my V200. That's why I started comparing the o2. I found it pretty easy to compare o2 SE to vio balanced using a female 4pinxlr to jack adapter connected to the o2. Could quicky swap between until volume was matched.
  
 Ive never heard anyone describe o2 as too thick and lacking clarity tbh, I've heard lots of people say it's very transparent, but clinical though. Could there have been an issue with yours?.

 I expected the V281 to best it at everything, but discovered the o2 actually edges the V281 at bass definition and sub bass. In terms of control and resolution they are very similar, but the vio manages to still sound warm and musical, unlike the o2.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That certainly is one hell of an opinion


----------



## thomascrown

project86 said:


> That is very odd. Each step on the volume control is .75dB so there should be plenty of room to dial it in just right.




What do you suggest could be the reason? BTW as the Taurus the vio is never completely quiet at the lowest volume, more it keeps "clicking" if you just touch the knob at min, while it stops at 95% (no music of course)


----------



## PleasantSounds

thomascrown said:


> What do you suggest could be the reason? BTW as the Taurus the vio is never completely quiet at the lowest volume, more it keeps "clicking" if you just touch the knob at min, while it stops at 95% (no music of course)


 
  
 One possible reason is that some DACs output signal way higher than the common standard (Matrix X-Sabre comes to mind). While the V281 can handle it without clipping, it may lead to lowering the usable volume control range.


----------



## thomascrown

pleasantsounds said:


> One possible reason is that some DACs output signal way higher than the common standard (Matrix X-Sabre comes to mind). While the V281 can handle it without clipping, it may lead to lowering the usable volume control range.




Yep gumby xlr it's at least 6db louder than my nad connected to the s.e. so a lower gain pretty helps. Still I don't get the advantage of such volume pot over the Taurus one.


----------



## Suopermanni

Hello Head-Fi!
  
 I'm thinking of buying a Violectric V220/281 or the Schiit Hybrid Tube + Solid state amp that I can't spell with the LSST option but I don't know which to go for. Just wondering if any of you Head-Fiers out there could help me? I can say that I didn't exactly like the V200 that much, it sounded a bit too slow and warm for my tastes. The G109S was more to my strange preferences.


----------



## project86

thomascrown said:


> What do you suggest could be the reason? BTW as the Taurus the vio is never completely quiet at the lowest volume, more it keeps "clicking" if you just touch the knob at min, while it stops at 95% (no music of course)


 
  
  
 As mentioned, using a source with a more standard output level will help. And use lower gain settings on the V281. Aside from that I'm at a loss as to why .75dB steps would be too large for you.


----------



## thomascrown

project86 said:


> As mentioned, using a source with a more standard output level will help. And use lower gain settings on the V281. Aside from that I'm at a loss as to why .75dB steps would be too large for you.


 
 I'll switch the xlr input with the nad or the hrt hd and see if it's the gumby is the culprit (I start suspecting it may be).


----------



## Drewligarchy

Random question: i am using the v281 as a pre-amp for my Stax 717 so I have remote control volume control, therefore I have the v281 setup to run as a pre-amp pre-fader so it's volume pot controls the 717.

I recently purchased some LCD-4s which are power hungry and I've found sound best with pre-gain set to +12db. But, if the v281 is set up pre-fader as a pre-amp, does the pre-gain affect the line level outputs I'm sending to the stax717? Concerned the signal would be too hot if it did, and worried about trying it and overloading the Stax.

If anyone has experience with a setup in a similar configuration and can advise, it would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## PleasantSounds

I tried it and changing the pre-gain settings does not appear to have any impact on the preamp output levels.
  
 When you do that start with the volume on the V281 muted to zero and increase slowly - just in case I'm wrong...


----------



## sandalaudio

drewligarchy said:


> Random question: i am using the v281 as a pre-amp for my Stax 717 so I have remote control volume control, therefore I have the v281 setup to run as a pre-amp pre-fader so it's volume pot controls the 717.
> 
> I recently purchased some LCD-4s which are power hungry and I've found sound best with pre-gain set to +12db. But, if the v281 is set up pre-fader as a pre-amp, does the pre-gain affect the line level outputs I'm sending to the stax717? Concerned the signal would be too hot if it did, and worried about trying it and overloading the Stax.
> 
> If anyone has experience with a setup in a similar configuration and can advise, it would be greatly appreciated!


 
  
 The pre-gain jumper only affects the front headphone outputs. The line output splits off before the pre-gain, as shown on Page 13 of the manual.
 http://violectric-usa.com/download/Violectric V281 Manual.pdf
  
 Inside the V281 chassis there is a "Line Output Gain level adaption" jumpers that can be adjusted between -12, -6, 0, +6, +12 dB.
 You shouldn't need to change that, since the factory default is 0dB, which means it is unity gain on the line output.
  
 That means the volume knob acts as an attenuator only, so if you crank up the volume knob all the way to the max, it should achieve a level that is equivalent to the input RCA signal. You just have to be careful that you don't accidentally blow up any headphones connected to the front of V281....
  
 Whether the Stax gets overloaded or not will depend on what RCA output voltage is pushed out from the upstream source that connects into the V281.


----------



## goobicii

can anyone tell me why is everybody buying V281 when V220 is better amp? I bet 99% dont even utilize the extra power 281 has over 220


----------



## ken6217

goobicii said:


> can anyone tell me why is everybody buying V281 when V220 is better amp? I bet 99% dont even utilize the extra power 281 has over 220


 

 How do you know that? if you are listening to balanced headphones its not close. Just because a headphone has a minimal power rating, doesn't mean it sounds better with a less powerful amp. In balanced mode it is two V220's. More power will always sound better.
  
 I have speakers that sound good using my 250 watt mono blocks for each speaker. However they sound even better using 1000 watt mono blocks. The minimal power rating required is about 90 watts.


----------



## manpowre

goobicii said:


> can anyone tell me why is everybody buying V281 when V220 is better amp? I bet 99% dont even utilize the extra power 281 has over 220


 
 With 300 ohm or even 200 ohm headphones you DO need the extra power to drive them and to open them up.
 V220 better than V281 ?? Users been reporting to use the LCD4 you have to use Gain to +12db to drive them properly on the V281.
  
 V220 doesnt even have balanced XLR4 out. There is a huge difference with jackplug and the XLR4 output for headphones. Even on my Oppo HA-1 its a big difference. I also heard Pioneer SE Master-1 balanced/jackplug on the Pioneer headphone amplifier, and theres a huge difference. Also the Sennheiser HD800 on the Sennheiser top model balanced Amp there is a big difference.
  
 You dont need V281 to drive headphones where people use a jackplug. And this is where V220 comes in, its possible to equip it with a dac, and the oter features for the price of starting version of V281.


----------



## fradoca

zeissiez said:


> Audio-GD's big boys like Master 9 or Master 11 should be considered too, as Dan of Headfonia pointed out that in most aspects it's a better amp than 430HA. Comparison here: https://headmania.org/2015/03/08/simaudio-moon-430ha-headphone-amplifier-review/
> 
> At USD1550, it looks like a bargain too. http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/Master-9/Master-9EN.htm
> 
> It would be good to hear from someone who have compared the V281 and Master 9, particularly in driving cans like HE6 and HE1000.


 
  
 Hi,
 i have both master 9 and v281. I prefer the v281 with the he6 because the v281 is a little bit on the warmer side and it helps the he6 to have a more neutral sound.The dac used with the v281 and the he6 is the Tobby by Firestone Audio and my v281 has the pregain set at +6 dB.The master 9 is a monster amp and for me it's one of the top 3 solid state balanced amps along with the headamp Gs-x mk2 and the Headtrip by wells audio.
 The master 9 is literally a wire with gain and i use it with my lcd-x and a mytek dac as the main reference system for critical listening sessions and audio mastering jobs.All the amps and the headphones are connected through balanced connections.The master 9 is a little bit faster, more powerful, more transparent, and neutral compared to the v281 which remains an very very good amp.The he1000 pairs better with the master 9 than with the v281.I've used headphones in the last 20 years for audio mastering, audio broadcasting ,quality control so my opinion could be biased by the fact that i'm not an audiophile but i see and hear things from a professional audio point of view.So my taste for amps could be quite different from yours.Not better just different.Just my two cents.


----------



## 13713

goobicii said:


> can anyone tell me why is everybody buying V281 when V220 is better amp? I bet 99% dont even utilize the extra power 281 has over 220




Balanced alone is worth it.


----------



## goobicii

13713 said:


> Balanced alone is worth it.


 
  
 lol V220 is balanced
  
 I think what happened is people were thinking,V220 have only unbalanced output like V200 so they buy V281 becose they were thinking its better when in reality they wasted extra money on amp that is inferior in crosstalk and noise with only advantage being power,power that they will never use becose V220 is extremly powerfull alone


----------



## goobicii

manpowre said:


> With 300 ohm or even 200 ohm headphones you DO need the extra power to drive them and to open them up.
> V220 better than V281 ?? Users been reporting to use the LCD4 you have to use Gain to +12db to drive them properly on the V281.
> 
> V220 doesnt even have balanced XLR4 out. There is a huge difference with jackplug and the XLR4 output for headphones. Even on my Oppo HA-1 its a big difference. I also heard Pioneer SE Master-1 balanced/jackplug on the Pioneer headphone amplifier, and theres a huge difference. Also the Sennheiser HD800 on the Sennheiser top model balanced Amp there is a big difference.
> ...


 
 from Lake-People.de
  
 V220
  
 Features :
  
   Balanced inputs with gold-plated Neutrik XLR connectors
 -  Unbalanced inputs with gold-plated RCA connectors
 -  Balanced line outputs with gold plated XLR connectors


----------



## yc1204

goobicii said:


> lol V220 is balanced
> 
> I think what happened is people were thinking,V220 have only unbalanced output like V200 so they buy V281 becose they were thinking its better when in reality they wasted extra money on amp that is inferior in crosstalk and noise with only advantage being power,power that they will never use becose V220 is extremly powerfull alone




No. Balance line out is not balance headphone out. The V281 is built in 4 amp system with 2 amps (V220 amp board) for each chanel. Which make it become true balanced headphone output. The V220 only has 2 amps inside, 1 for each chanel for SE headphone output. 

Do your homework 1st before you announce your words that mislead other people.


----------



## 13713

yc1204 said:


> No. Balance line out is not balance headphone out. The V281 is built in 4 amp system with 2 amps (V220 amp board) for each chanel. Which make it become true balanced headphone output. The V220 only has 2 amps inside, 1 for each chanel for SE headphone output.
> 
> Do your homework 1st before you announce your words that mislead other people.




I will re-read the manuals and sheets but this is what I meant.


----------



## manpowre

goobicii said:


> from Lake-People.de
> 
> V220
> 
> ...


 
  
 Umm dont know what to say if you dont know the difference between balanced LINE output and balanced headphone XLR4 output.. 
 Also as mentioned the v281 has 2x V220 amp boards inside to drive each of the two channels.
  
 Better sound as you stated ? where did you read that and with what kind of equipment ?


----------



## YugiRider2

Joining the club.
 Just ordered one from A2A in Australia.


----------



## mulder01

yugirider2 said:


> Joining the club.
> Just ordered one from A2A in Australia.


 
  
 They've got pretty awesome prices on Vio gear at the moment.  Just bought their phono pre amp a few weeks ago.


----------



## alvinmate

Welcome to the V281 club.....bought mine from A2A too....great service and great prices as always....




yugirider2 said:


> Joining the club.
> Just ordered one from A2A in Australia.


----------



## yc1204

I bought both LCD4 and V281 from A2A as well. Ash is a nice guy to deal with.


----------



## manpowre

yc1204 said:


> I bought both LCD4 and V281 from A2A as well. Ash is a nice guy to deal with.


 
  
  
 Thats awesome, how does LCD4 sound on V281 ? 
  
 Mine LCD3 is in for RMA, so now Im without headphones for a few weeks atleast. Considering a low cost headphone, since I already have super cables, with mini-xlr3 and also my Centrance Mini-m8 has silver cables with mini-xlr3, I am looking for a low cost but excellent sound headphone to plug in to my DAC's balanced.. any suggestions ?


----------



## project86

mulder01 said:


> They've got pretty awesome prices on Vio gear at the moment.  Just bought their phono pre amp a few weeks ago.


 
  
 Nice! V600 doesn't get enough love around here, I guess because HeadFi demographic includes more computer audiophiles than vinyl spinners. Let us know your thoughts when you've spent some time with it.
  
  
  


manpowre said:


> Thats awesome, how does LCD4 sound on V281 ?
> 
> Mine LCD3 is in for RMA, so now Im without headphones for a few weeks atleast. Considering a low cost headphone, since I already have super cables, with mini-xlr3 and also my Centrance Mini-m8 has silver cables with mini-xlr3, I am looking for a low cost but excellent sound headphone to plug in to my DAC's balanced.. any suggestions ?


 
  
 Not sure your definition of "low cost" but LCD-2 can often be had on the forums here for good prices. Same with HE-500 which is still a really enjoyable headphone.


----------



## 13713

V600 is amazing. Not a lot of us v600 owners in existence. Welcome to the small following.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Well my V281 has a new fan


----------



## gonzfi

Looks warm and comfy. Pop some iems in


----------



## YugiRider2

I agree, A2A has some killer prices at the moment for Violectric stuff.


----------



## Sinarca

ultrainferno said:


> Well my V281 has a new fan


 
  
 Very nice


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm updating the links on the impressions for the front page so people can jump easily to the postings. If anyone feels missed out on her/his impressions just PM me with the link to the post.


----------



## 3083joe

Well. Ordered the v281. 
Will be head tomorrow hopefully!


----------



## 13713

3083joe said:


> Well. Ordered the v281.
> Will be head tomorrow hopefully!




Do you have balanced cables and balanced headphone cables? 

Stupid question I know but if you do then use them. Welcome to the club the V281 is amazing.


----------



## yc1204

Waiting for my LCD4 balance cable to be delivered from Audeze. Can't wait to hear the improvement!


----------



## ken6217

13713 said:


> Do you have balanced cables and balanced headphone cables?
> 
> Stupid question I know but if you do then use them. Welcome to the club the V281 is amazing.




Actually not a stupid question. To get most out of the V281 you need both.


----------



## 13713

ken6217 said:


> Actually not a stupid question. To get most out of the V281 you need both.




I meant it as stupid for asking someone that purchased the unit... Buying the V281 the balanced is one of the factors. I just hope they have the balanced cables ready for maximum enjoyment. 

What source are you using for your new V281 Joe?


----------



## 3083joe

Wow. It's here and it puts the woo audio wa22 to shame!


----------



## 13713

3083joe said:


> Wow. It's here and it puts the woo audio wa22 to shame!




It really is reasonable end game solid state. Enjoy.


----------



## phase0

3083joe said:


> Wow. It's here and it puts the woo audio wa22 to shame!


 
  
 Shhh. My V281 is supposed to arrive on Monday. Then you still need to sell your WA22 and I'll probably need to sell my WA5. I've not heard the V281 yet.


----------



## 3083joe

Wa22 sold.


----------



## Khragon

phase0 said:


> Shhh. My V281 is supposed to arrive on Monday. Then you still need to sell your WA22 and I'll probably need to sell my WA5. I've not heard the V281 yet.




Let us know how V281 compared to WA5, I doubt any Woo including the WA234 can beat SS at bass punchiness and sparkling highs, it's the sweet midrange that is hard to beat.

If the V281 can do that I see an exodus of Woo'er migrating over, look like it's already started.


----------



## 13713

I actually reall want a WA5. I have always been interested in getting a Woo amp and that one is really something. I am also interested in the comparisons.


----------



## ken6217

13713 said:


> I meant it as stupid for asking someone that purchased the unit... Buying the V281 the balanced is one of the factors. I just hope they have the balanced cables ready for maximum enjoyment.
> 
> What source are you using for your new V281 Joe?




For me there is no comparison. I had both amps and sold the WA5 last weekend.


----------



## 13713

ken6217 said:


> For me there is no comparison. I had both amps and sold the WA5 last weekend.




When I came into headphones last year I started with the V281, V850, V600 (SOTA TT source) connected to HD800. I honestly went into the headphone game pretty hardcore but I regret nothing. 

I went to a headfi meet here in Phoenix this past January. First chance I had to demo other equipment. I have reached endgame for SS. Other gear sounded good but there is something amazing about Violectric. 

Time to get into tube amps.


----------



## 3083joe

13713 said:


> Do you have balanced cables and balanced headphone cables?
> 
> Stupid question I know but if you do then use them. Welcome to the club the V281 is amazing.



Yeah. Running custom 8 wire litz to my HD 800 S 
Thanks to PETEREK


----------



## 3083joe

13713 said:


> I meant it as stupid for asking someone that purchased the unit... Buying the V281 the balanced is one of the factors. I just hope they have the balanced cables ready for maximum enjoyment.
> 
> What source are you using for your new V281 Joe?



Clearaudio performance DC with magnify arm and DV karat 17D3 cartridge. Using pro-ject phono box RS at the moment but picking up the Ayre Phono preamp next week.


----------



## mulder01

13713 said:


> When I came into headphones last year I started with the V281, V850, V600 (SOTA TT source) connected to HD800. I honestly went into the headphone game pretty hardcore but I regret nothing.


 
  
 Hey, we've almost got the same setup!
  
 I'm feeling pretty much the same - like I don't need to buy anything else.  (Except maybe get something tubey sometime)...


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## manpowre

mulder01 said:


> Hey, we've almost got the same setup!
> 
> I'm feeling pretty much the same - like I don't need to buy anything else.  (Except maybe get something tubey sometime)...


 
  
  
 Did you try different DAC's ? could be worth doing that.


----------



## S Crowther

I am thinking of buying the 281 to drive LCD3 balanced, feeding the 281 from the balanced output of AK240 DAP.
Does that make sense?


----------



## mulder01

manpowre said:


> Did you try different DAC's ? could be worth doing that.


 
  
 Haven't been able to hear a difference between dacs so far so it would be a bad investment for me.  I am a headphone man all the way.


----------



## 3083joe

Midrange warmth is for missing in comparison to wa22. Hope some break in time will help improve it. 

But Bass makes me look around sometimes not realizing its from the music.


----------



## 13713

manpowre said:


> Did you try different DAC's ? could be worth doing that.




At this point in his setup it makes more sense to go in a different direction. He is at high end ss already. Tube amps would be awesome.


----------



## mulder01

ken6217 said:


> For me there is no comparison. I had both amps and sold the WA5 last weekend.


 
  
  


13713 said:


> At this point in his setup it makes more sense to go in a different direction. He is at high end ss already. Tube amps would be awesome.


 
  
 I always liked the look of the WA5 and it seems to get a lot of good impressions (except this one).  What do you feel the WA5 doesn't do that the v281 does?  Or is it just a general preference for SS over tubes.


----------



## 13713

mulder01 said:


> I always liked the look of the WA5 and it seems to get a lot of good impressions (except this one).  What do you feel the WA5 doesn't do that the v281 does?  Or is it just a general preference for SS over tubes.




I was responding about the setup you had and why perhaps tube would be a good direction instead of another DAC. I meant that you have an amazing SS setup and that perhaps a different sound would be the path to go down next.

At this point it's really hard to want to keep going upwards in solid state.


----------



## 3083joe

mulder01 said:


> I always liked the look of the WA5 and it seems to get a lot of good impressions (except this one).  What do you feel the WA5 doesn't do that the v281 does?  Or is it just a general preference for SS over tubes.


 
  
  


13713 said:


> I was responding about the setup you had and why perhaps tube would be a good direction instead of another DAC. I meant that you have an amazing SS setup and that perhaps a different sound would be the path to go down next.
> 
> At this point it's really hard to want to keep going upwards in solid state.


 

 I enjoy tubes and there warmth, but the issues with noise is beyond what i wanted to deal with, using TT and Tube was just to much background noise. with the V281 dead silent


----------



## ken6217

mulder01 said:


> I always liked the look of the WA5 and it seems to get a lot of good impressions (except this one).  What do you feel the WA5 doesn't do that the v281 does?  Or is it just a general preference for SS over tubes.


 
 I was going to start of by saying "For me" the V281 has more dynamics, more definition, and better bass, but then I realized that it is just a fact and there's no reason to personalize it. 
  
 The V281 is a very good solid state amp, but also this solid state in comparison to tubes as well.


----------



## mulder01

13713 said:


> I was responding about the setup you had and why perhaps tube would be a good direction instead of another DAC. I meant that you have an amazing SS setup and that perhaps a different sound would be the path to go down next.
> 
> At this point it's really hard to want to keep going upwards in solid state.


 
  
 Yeah maybe I wasn't real clear in that post - I was agreeing with you, saying that I always liked the idea of the WA5, but the part where I was asking what was wrong with it was aimed at ken.  Not keen on spending big $ on a tube amp though just because it's cool - especially if it doesn't sound as good...  Pretty keen to hear phase0's opinion on that one when his 281 arrives...


----------



## 13713

mulder01 said:


> Yeah maybe I wasn't real clear in that post - I was agreeing with you, saying that I always liked the idea of the WA5, but the part where I was asking what was wrong with it was aimed at ken.  Not keen on spending big $ on a tube amp though just because it's cool - especially if it doesn't sound as good...  Pretty keen to hear phase0's opinion on that one when his 281 arrives...




Major issue with this hobby is chasing the dragon. That's why I went all in with Violectric for my setup. But I would be lying if I said I was not interested in the WA5.

Tubes seem interesting but the rolling people do is crazy.


----------



## 3083joe

13713 said:


> Major issue with this hobby is chasing the dragon. That's why I went all in with Violectric for my setup. But I would be lying if I said I was not interested in the WA5.
> 
> Tubes seem interesting but the rolling people do is crazy.



Wa5 is great, being 300b and all but to do it right you have to give 2359glenn 's 300b a try truly a game changer. 

And as for rolling that's half the reason I left tubes. I would be ashamed to say how much I've spent rolling.


----------



## 13713

3083joe said:


> Wa5 is great, being 300b and all but to do it right you have to give 2359glenn 's 300b a try truly a game changer.
> 
> And as for rolling that's half the reason I left tubes. I would be ashamed to say how much I've spent rolling.




Yeah... Tube rolling seems neat but I am already down the vinyl rabbit hole adding another outlandish aspect of the hobby would be idiotic.


----------



## 3083joe

13713 said:


> Yeah... Tube rolling seems neat but I am already down the vinyl rabbit hole adding another outlandish aspect of the hobby would be idiotic.



Agreed 100%. 
Which is why I sold the wa22 to move to the v281


----------



## 1974

I've heard the WA5 at headphone meets, and it blows me away every time. It's unfortunately too expensive for me at this stage, or I would buy one today.
  
 I once owned the V281, and personally (no disrespect to Violectric or V281 owners who enjoy it) found it maybe a *little* better than some of the mid-range gear I own. I came to the conclusion that it's too expensive for what you get and somewhat over-hyped.
  
 I just wanted to put that out there for people who may follow this thread and get excited about the V281 (as did I) like it's some god-like end game amp, only to be let down. Try before you buy, if possible.


----------



## PleasantSounds

1974 said:


> [..]
> 
> I once owned the V281, and personally (no disrespect to Violectric of V281 owners who enjoy it) found it maybe a *little* better than some of the mid-range gear I own. I came to the conclusion that it's too expensive for what you get and somewhat over-hyped.
> 
> I just wanted to put that out there for people who may follow this thread and get excited about the V281 (as did I) like it's some god-like end game amp, only to be let down. Try before you buy, if possible.


 
  
 That's not surprising - the law of diminishing returns does its job in this price range.
 Just curious: have you heard any SS amp that would be *much* better that your mid-range gear?


----------



## 1974

pleasantsounds said:


> That's not surprising - the law of diminishing returns does its job in this price range.
> Just curious: have you heard any SS amp that would be *much* better that your mid-range gear?


 
  
 If price isn't a factor, sure - the Cavalli Liquid Gold springs to mind.


----------



## yc1204

1974 said:


> If price isn't a factor, sure - the Cavalli Liquid Gold springs to mind.


 
 V281 is a very sensitive amp. Its more or less relevant to the cables and headphone you used to pair with. I did a lot of experiment and concluded this in my mind. 
  
 Also some of the people tried the LG and V281 and preferred the V281, not surprising as headfi can never judge by price tag. LG is not an amp that pairs well with every headphone too. I tried it with Ether and it's amazing, but when I used it with the LCD3 it's too dark and didn't please my ears.


----------



## sandalaudio

yc1204 said:


> V281 is a very sensitive amp. Its more or less relevant to the cables and headphone you used to pair with. I did a lot of experiment and concluded this in my mind.
> 
> Also some of the people tried the LG and V281 and preferred the V281, not surprising as headfi can never judge by price tag. LG is not an amp that pairs well with every headphone too. I tried it with Ether and it's amazing, but when I used it with the LCD3 it's too dark and didn't please my ears.


 
  
 I also ended up buying the V281 because it was the least "charactered" amp I found after countless demos. I was quite happy with how it didn't mask what's upstream or downstream. Other headphone amps I tried tended to sound more like listening to the amp's flavour rather than the music.
  
 I think Cavalli Liquid Gold is a nicely designed amp and it certainly doesn't feel overpriced for what it is. However I felt that it was more of a tasty hobbyist headphone amp than an everyday workhorse.
  
 Also I think a lot of people including myself uses the V281 as a preamp for speaker power amps. It sounds great, and with remote control, it's pretty convenient. I thought it's quite affordable in that sense. Anyhow I'm quite happy with it even after several months of ownership.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Did anyone in here try the Violectric cables? If yes, in which form and how do you like them?


----------



## Ultrainferno

fegefeuer said:


> Did anyone in here try the Violectric cables? If yes, in which form and how do you like them?


 
  
 Yes
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/786838/introducing-violectric-by-lake-people-cables
  
 I'm using their balanced cables between the V850 and the V281, but it's a purple non sleeved version


----------



## mulder01

ultrainferno said:


> Yes
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/786838/introducing-violectric-by-lake-people-cables
> 
> I'm using their balanced cables between the V850 and the V281, but it's a purple non sleeved version


 
  
 Didn't even realise they made cables.  The link to their cables on violectric.de is broken


----------



## Fegefeuer

ultrainferno said:


> Yes
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/786838/introducing-violectric-by-lake-people-cables
> 
> I'm using their balanced cables between the V850 and the V281, but it's a purple non sleeved version


 
  
 wow, they look nice. If it wasn't for the linked thread I'd at least seem them come Friday, but still...the purple sleeved cables are really beautiful. Build quality wise I expect nothing less than stellar.


----------



## 13713

1974 said:


> I've heard the WA5 at headphone meets, and it blows me away every time. It's unfortunately too expensive for me at this stage, or I would buy one today.
> 
> I once owned the V281, and personally (no disrespect to Violectric or V281 owners who enjoy it) found it maybe a *little* better than some of the mid-range gear I own. I came to the conclusion that it's too expensive for what you get and somewhat over-hyped.
> 
> I just wanted to put that out there for people who may follow this thread and get excited about the V281 (as did I) like it's some god-like end game amp, only to be let down. Try before you buy, if possible.




Very good points and completely fair. Gear should be tried if at all possible. This is a crazy expensive hobby.


----------



## zeissiez

I know the WA5 very well, it has some qualities that many other tube amps don't, mainly that lush and rich mid range that even top tube amps like the ECBA is lacking. So I'm surprised that some people are comparing it with SS amps. To me, the WA5 sounds so different from any SS amp. It's true that the bass control and tightness is no match for good SS amps, but no SS can give that LUUUUSSSSSHHHH mid range and that glowing mid range bloom, not even close.


----------



## project86

Bottom line, we all have different experiences with amps based on various factors. I'm not personally a fan of the Cavalli amps. I know some who are. I have a pal who doesn't care for the V281 all that much, while I love it to death. Several people around here like their V281 more than the WA5. Others disagree. 
  
 In the end, we talk about this stuff and take it personal at times but there's really no reason to. Enjoy the gear you end up with, and most of all enjoy the music.


----------



## manpowre

project86 said:


> Bottom line, we all have different experiences with amps based on various factors. I'm not personally a fan of the Cavalli amps. I know some who are. I have a pal who doesn't care for the V281 all that much, while I love it to death. Several people around here like their V281 more than the WA5. Others disagree.
> 
> In the end, we talk about this stuff and take it personal at times but there's really no reason to. Enjoy the gear you end up with, and most of all enjoy the music.


 
 This is so true.
  
 When I got my V281 I had used the Oppo HA-1 AMP part for about 1 month with my Hegel HD25 DAC, and that sounded great. The punch was there and high details (LCD3 2015 ver and Heimdall Nordost2 analogue cable's).
  
 I had expectations of the V281, more punch, more bass, more control of lower tones, but instead I got more precision in slam, cymbals and snare's were more accurate more air around them on the V281. It was like breathing easyer. 
  
 But the soundstage didnt change drastically. It just became more high detailed, and my DAC really came to shine. Apparently also bad recordings came out to not fun to listen to!! Also the 3d effect became more apparent on V281, something the HA-1 didnt produce. I could place people in the room easyer.
  
 But I enjoyed my Oppo HA-1 AMP part just as much on my setup. On evenings with some wine, I even changed back to Oppo HA-1 amp as I experienced a little more oumpha. not sure why.
  
 Now I do hope with LCD4 to get the last punch I was missing with the LCD3 and the whole setup just shine to another level above what I had.
  
 But atm, it doesnt feel like it as LCD3 is sent for RMA, and my Hegel HD25 dac sent for warranty repair. I just have a broken system atm.. 
  
 cant wait to get all back to start listening.


----------



## zeissiez

project86 said:


> Bottom line, we all have different experiences with amps based on various factors. I'm not personally a fan of the Cavalli amps. I know some who are. I have a pal who doesn't care for the V281 all that much, while I love it to death. Several people around here like their V281 more than the WA5. Others disagree.
> 
> In the end, we talk about this stuff and take it personal at times but there's really no reason to. Enjoy the gear you end up with, and most of all enjoy the music.


 

 I'm not saying WA5 is a better amp. This is how I see the diff between the WA5 and a SS amp. The sound from a typical good SS amp is like RAW files from a digital camera, it's neutral, accurate, linear with lots of details etc.. The sound from WA5 is like a post-processing template, which applies heavy color saturation, vignetting, contrast to the image. While this template may work for some scenes, for example portraiture, it may not work for others like landscape. When it works, it looks much better than the plain RAW output. When it doesn't, it looks awkward. We cannot compare a RAW file to a heavily processed JPEG template. Similarly, we cannot say a SS amp sounds better than a classical tube amp, or vice versa.


----------



## 3083joe

zeissiez said:


> I'm not saying WA5 is a better amp. This is how I see the diff between the WA5 and a SS amp. The sound from a typical good SS amp is like RAW files from a digital camera, it's neutral, accurate, linear with lots of details etc.. The sound from WA5 is like a post-processing template, which applies heavy color saturation, vignetting, contrast to the image. While this template may work for some scenes, for example portraiture, it may not work for others like landscape. When it works, it looks much better than the plain RAW output. When it doesn't, it looks awkward. We cannot compare a RAW file to a heavily processed JPEG template. Similarly, we cannot say a SS amp sounds better than a classical tube amp, or vice versa.



Agreed. But wow is the v281 dead quiet with my turntable which is why I left the wa22. Tubes can be so loud it's distracting. But to each there own. May go back one day.


----------



## ken6217

zeissiez said:


> I'm not saying WA5 is a better amp. This is how I see the diff between the WA5 and a SS amp. The sound from a typical good SS amp is like RAW files from a digital camera, it's neutral, accurate, linear with lots of details etc.. The sound from WA5 is like a post-processing template, which applies heavy color saturation, vignetting, contrast to the image. While this template may work for some scenes, for example portraiture, it may not work for others like landscape. When it works, it looks much better than the plain RAW output. When it doesn't, it looks awkward. We cannot compare a RAW file to a heavily processed JPEG template. Similarly, we cannot say a SS amp sounds better than a classical tube amp, or vice versa.


 

 That sounds real nice and pretty but it is not accurate. If you want to go down that road, the WA5 has really bad black level (read- bass) and will never match a solid state amp when it comes to that. 
  
 I have owned the WA5 LE and the V281 and the bass and dynamics are so much better, as they should be. Your not going to get a tube amp that is going to match a good solid state amp in certain categories, and vice versa. It's ridiculous to compare them.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Unfortunately I only had my fixed length lense with me and my photo skills are terrible as I'm practically never using it (which shows with the abysmal focus shift) but I made a picture of the beautiful purple XLR cables at the Munich High End Fair today. 
  
 I met Fried and he was cool as ever. Also seen Jude (but couldn't exchange a few words as he was surrounded all the time) and listened to the Hifiman Shangri La.


----------



## leftside

ken6217 said:


> That sounds real nice and pretty but it is not accurate. If you want to go down that road, the WA5 has really bad black level (read- bass) and will never match a solid state amp when it comes to that.


 
 For sure the black level of a high-end tube amp won't match that of a high-end solid state amp. But, does it matter? I tested my WA22 last night. I had my preamp set to the max of 100 and had the WA22 also set to the max. With a digital source, I had absolutely zero hum and could only hear a small hissing noise. At these volume levels I'd probably destroy my headphones and most certainly my hearing. That's why I'm asking if it matters? Disclaimer: this is with very high end tubes in the WA22.
  
 With a turntable and a tube phono preamp it's a little different, but any noise is coming from the turntable and the tube phono preamp - not from the WA22. All the WA22 seems to do is to amplify any noise from the turntable and/or phono preamp, but with the correct volume level set on the preamp and on the WA22 these noises are not noticeable at all when listening. The combination of turntable -> tube phono preamp -> solid state preamp -> tube amp (WA22) -> headphones produces a glorious sound.
  
 I haven't tried the V281, but I'd really like to. I've been around long enough to know that no matter how "good" you think your system sounds, there can always be an improvement. Hence my slow but sure process of upgrading my system(s) over the last few decades.


----------



## ken6217

leftside said:


> For sure the black level of a high-end tube amp won't match that of a high-end solid state amp. But, does it matter? I tested my WA22 last night. I had my preamp set to the max of 100 and had the WA22 also set to the max. With a digital source, I had absolutely zero hum and could only hear a small hissing noise. At these volume levels I'd probably destroy my headphones and most certainly my hearing. That's why I'm asking if it matters? Disclaimer: this is with very high end tubes in the WA22.
> 
> With a turntable and a tube phono preamp it's a little different, but any noise is coming from the turntable and the tube phono preamp - not from the WA22. All the WA22 seems to do is to amplify any noise from the turntable and/or phono preamp, but with the correct volume level set on the preamp and on the WA22 these noises are not noticeable at all when listening. The combination of turntable -> tube phono preamp -> solid state preamp -> tube amp (WA22) -> headphones produces a glorious sound.
> 
> I haven't tried the V281, but I'd really like to. I've been around long enough to know that no matter how "good" you think your system sounds, there can always be an improvement. Hence my slow but sure process of upgrading my system(s) over the last few decades.




When I said black level, I was using photo developing (RAW) terminology. I didn't mean in terms of quietness. I was referring to bass.


----------



## leftside

If you want more bass, just turn it up on your preamp


----------



## ken6217

leftside said:


> If you want more bass, just turn it up on your preamp





leftside said:


> If you want more bass, just turn it up on your preamp




Ain't the same thing. Plus why have a preamp with the headphone amp and 2 volume controls? Sell tube amp and preamp and put the money towards a better DAC or headphones.


----------



## leftside

ken6217 said:


> Ain't the same thing. Plus why have a preamp with the headphone amp and 2 volume controls? Sell tube amp and preamp and put the money towards a better DAC or headphones.


 

 My preamp drives three different amps (two being headphone amps - so that I can do easy comparisons, and another to my main amp driving speakers). I also have multiple sources. If you just have a DAC, then you indeed might not need a preamp.


----------



## phase0

I got a new V281 with the fancy motor volume knob to demo. I'm wondering if you guys have any thoughts or advice. This seems a little off/wrong too me.
  
 1) With the V281 volume set to zero, I still hear sound. Shouldn’t zero be black/nothing/full attenuation? Is there something wrong here?
 2) If I manually turn the knob to adjust sometimes I can hear a somewhat nasty pop (aside from some audible clickyness there too with manual adjustment) For such a premium volume knob is this considered normal? If I use the remote control I don’t hear the clicks in the adjustment nor the occasion pop as often but it still can occur. For something that costs an additional $580 this seems kind of janky. I'm not talking about the audio clicking when the motor moves the knob.
 3) It also seemed to be pretty hot on the sound for me so I adjusted the dip switches on the back to -6. I found it funny since some of what I read said with the Audeze LCD-XC that some feel it can benefit from +6. I don’t think the Mytek Line out is unduly hot.
  
 I'm using balanced XLR from DAC to Amp. I checked the Mytek docs on their outputs and this is what it says briefly:
  
 XLR output DEFAULT :
 Average level (0 VU) = +4dBu= 1.228 VRMS on XLR (between pin 2 and 3) Output trim (adjustable in menu) = -18dBFS
  
 This is the typical professional recording setting well handled by professional and some hi-fi equipment typically powered by +/-15V power rails (or larger)
 It's recommended for Hi-Fi systems with well designed high headroom preamps and amps.
  
 Anyways, the V281 sounds pretty good to me, but but.... is this normal? I don't think the output from the DAC is abnormally hot. At least my other amp doesn't have this anomaly.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm wondering how you don't find the Mytek bright. It's the brightest DAC I ever heard. Interestingly many who have the Mytek pair it with warmer tubes. Not sure about yours though.


----------



## Advent75

Fegefeuer, pairing Mytek w/Lake People G109 Amp and loving the energy. Considering high grading to the Violectric HPA V281...how will my experience change?


----------



## 3083joe

phase0 said:


> I got a new V281 with the fancy motor volume knob to demo. I'm wondering if you guys have any thoughts or advice. This seems a little off/wrong too me.
> 
> 1) With the V281 volume set to zero, I still hear sound. Shouldn’t zero be black/nothing/full attenuation? Is there something wrong here?
> 
> ...



This doesn't sound like mine. 
I have the same one (no dac) 
Clicks yes as its a 128 step relay nob
I did hear a little sound with volume on zero with my dads phono stage but the gain was set to high for it. 
No sound at zero with my project phono stage and no pops at all! 
Also had to go to +6 gain for my hd800 S to sound best.


----------



## phase0

fegefeuer said:


> I'm wondering how you don't find the Mytek bright. It's the brightest DAC I ever heard. Interestingly many who have the Mytek pair it with warmer tubes. Not sure about yours though.


 
  
 Yea maybe it is a bit bright now that you mention it. It sounds pretty good with my WA5. I bought the Mytek DAC based on reading reviews on gearslutz. It seemed like a lot of people loved it and for pro/con it generally had some of the highest praise. Regardless it was a huge step up from the RME I had before. Now as far as synergy and what is best is all very subjective and debatable. I'm just not sure what's next or what's best.
  


3083joe said:


> This doesn't sound like mine.
> I have the same one (no dac)
> Clicks yes as its a 128 step relay nob
> I did hear a little sound with volume on zero with my dads phono stage but the gain was set to high for it.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the feedback here. I didn't think my output would be considered too hot but I wonder if it is. There's the Auralic Vega (IIRC) was over 4 volts and abnormally hot. The Mytek is around 1.2v and I thought around or up to 2v is normal. I have a firmware attenuation of -4 Db I can do and there is a jumper I can set internally to drop the output by an additional -6 Db for the DAC while it is in bypass mode which gives the purest line out sound quality after the conversion so that is really what I want to stick with. Otherwise I can enable volume control in the DAC and set it to something quieter if need be. I'm kind of hesitant cause my WA5 had no issues with it. I'm hoping it turns out to be a bad volume knob. I've heard they can be problematic (in general not anything specific about the Violectric).
  
 Anyways it feels like something may be wrong with the relay control so I'm going to return it and have them check it out. I'm going to downgrade to a normal volume control. I don't really have any issue with the weird physical clicking of the relays since I have headphones on but all the audible in the signal clicking/popping was making me mad. IMO the most high-end expensive volume knob upgrade should do what the cheap/default option does plus more. The regular knob won't have that issue. It's totally smooth I'm told. I'll get this out the door soon and wait to hear if they find any problems with the unit. If they don't find anything wrong then the only place I can think to point the finger is at Mytek and the output running too hot. If that's the case, then I also wonder is that potentially harmful? Cause I would not want to attenuate for the WA5, but I would for the V281. I can't have both ways when the control is an internal jumper. And even then is an additional -6 on the Mytek + the -12 on the Violectric jumpers enough?


----------



## 3083joe

Well I hope you get it sorted. I have to say I also have been disappointed in the 500+ nob but what can I do now. Sold the wa22. But it's all good. Just use remote and don't notice it. 
I believe the -12 will be enough tho. 
Keep us posted. 
Thanks.


----------



## thomascrown

3083joe said:


> Well I hope you get it sorted. I have to say I also have been disappointed in the 500+ nob but what can I do now. Sold the wa22. But it's all good. Just use remote and don't notice it.
> I believe the -12 will be enough tho.
> Keep us posted.
> Thanks.


 
 Same here, good for me I bought the v281 used, so overall I'm not too disappointed, still that volume pot it's a design mistery to me, but lowering the input gain helped a lot.


----------



## PleasantSounds

With the base version pot down to zero there's nothing leaking to my headphones (using -6dB gain, haven't checked at other settings). My DAC is set to 2V.
 1.2V VU would be roughly equivalent to 1.8V peak, so these two may be actually the same value.
 I would rather set the gain on the amp to -12dB than lowering the DAC output, provided that the volume range is sufficient. 
 No need to worry about overloading the V281 inputs - if memory serves they can take up to +21dBu, which is 24.6V peak to peak.


----------



## archeryc

Been a long time of V281 owner, recently finally decided to upgrade my amp from V281 to the Moon 430HA. It's a hard decision, but time to end my game...


----------



## YugiRider2

archeryc said:


> Been a long time of V281 owner, recently finally decided to upgrade my amp from V281 to the Moon 430HA. It's a hard decision, but time to end my game...


 

 Please do some comparisons when you have both - I also have the V281 and the 430HA is also my end-game.


----------



## mulder01

?
 Have you both tried the 430HA and preferred it?
  
 PS.  This game has no end


----------



## archeryc

mulder01 said:


> ?
> Have you both tried the 430HA and preferred it?
> 
> PS.  This game has no end


 

 Both V281 and 430HA are awesome head amp, the reason I chose 430HA is because I prefer its treble presentation than the V281. With my LCD4 the V281 sounds too dark to my taste. The 430HA sounds just right and nice synergy with My LCD4. 
  
 With HD800, both V281 and 430HA able to do a great job on them. This is just personal opinion and I need more time of listening to justify of course.


----------



## Fegefeuer

advent75 said:


> Fegefeuer, pairing Mytek w/Lake People G109 Amp and loving the energy. Considering high grading to the Violectric HPA V281...how will my experience change?


 
  
 Well, that's kinda unfair. The G109 is a good amp but the Vio is just better in everything, "alone" through its sheer clean power overhead..In any case harder slam/punch, dynamics, more detail. Soundstage is not a strength of the LCD-2 though.  
  
 The brightness of the Mytek will prevail of course.


----------



## Advent75

Well Fegefeur, not much experience w/numerous DACs. Mytek/G109/LCD-3C are keepers for over three years. My ears look forward to the treat they provide during every listening experience. Thank you for your input and all of the information on the Violetric 281.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Looking forward to your impressions once you can compare both the G109 and the V281. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Always interesting to see how such upgrades are perceived.


----------



## 3083joe

V281 is opening up. Pushing 50hrs now. 
Hd800 S are near 100 hrs and also beginning to sound more open/dynamic. 
Curious if 100hr will bring bigger change..... Guess we will see in the next few weeks.


----------



## manpowre

archeryc said:


> Both V281 and 430HA are awesome head amp, the reason I chose 430HA is because I prefer its treble presentation than the V281. With my LCD4 the V281 sounds too dark to my taste. The 430HA sounds just right and nice synergy with My LCD4.
> 
> With HD800, both V281 and 430HA able to do a great job on them. This is just personal opinion and I need more time of listening to justify of course.


 
 Interesting, as I have V281, but I listened to it with LCD3, and now waiting for LCD4.
 I found my setup not to be too dark, on the contrary. But thats with LCD3, will be interesting to see how the sonic changes with LCD4 and the bass slam will be.Atleast I still have my Oppo HA-1 to compare amps with.


----------



## archeryc

manpowre said:


> Interesting, as I have V281, but I listened to it with LCD3, and now waiting for LCD4.
> I found my setup not to be too dark, on the contrary. But thats with LCD3, will be interesting to see how the sonic changes with LCD4 and the bass slam will be.Atleast I still have my Oppo HA-1 to compare amps with.


 
 Recently tried the Moon 430HA with LCD4 combo multiple times and finally decided to change my mind and bought the GSX MK2. I have to say the V281 and Moon 430HA is very close performance, the 430HA is slightly more musical and have better soundstage. But the treble part didn't satisfy me like the GSX MK2...


----------



## S Crowther

Just received V281 from Fried Reim.
Very good service I have to say.
Trying it with LCD3 with stock balanced cable and SAA endorphin unbalanced. Need an SAA balanced cable now!
Also tried AKG 812 with SAA cable and Ultrasone Ed.10. 
The AKG sounds really good as expected but I am surprised by how well the Ed.10 sounds. That phone is really difficult to drive without the treble going crazy. Not so much here.

Previously was using Pro-ject headbox RS and CI audio amps.

Need to see how things improve after burning in.


----------



## 13713

Welcome to the awesome world of Violectric.


----------



## 3083joe

s crowther said:


> Just received V281 from Fried Reim.
> Very good service I have to say.
> Trying it with LCD3 with stock balanced cable and SAA endorphin unbalanced. Need an SAA balanced cable now!
> Also tried AKG 812 with SAA cable and Ultrasone Ed.10.
> ...



Congrats. 
Let the fun begin.


----------



## 13713

Feeding HD800 headphones... Sounds great. 

I have had this stack since September of last year I am still amazed at the build quality.


----------



## project86

Very nice!


----------



## 3083joe

13713 said:


> Feeding HD800 headphones... Sounds great.
> 
> I have had this stack since September of last year I am still amazed at the build quality.



Nice


----------



## leftside

13713 said:


> Feeding HD800 headphones... Sounds great.
> 
> I have had this stack since September of last year I am still amazed at the build quality.


 
 KMFDM doin' it again... Seen them a few times here in Vancouver.


----------



## phonomat

No doubt about it, KMFDM sucks!


----------



## musicbuff

13713 said:


> Feeding HD800 headphones... Sounds great.
> 
> I have had this stack since September of last year I am still amazed at the build quality.


 
 Nice rig!


----------



## 13713

musicbuff said:


> Nice rig!




Thanks. I would have gone down the tube amp route but with vinyl as my love that was just one additional rabbit hole I did not want to go down. 

So after lurking for a few years and really liking what I was reading about Violectric especially after Project86 did a review of the 281 I decided to take the plunge. Picked up the 281 and 600 for my just ordered HD800 headphones. When I placed the order Violectric USA just put the 850 up on their page and with the discount they had at that time I figured I would purchase it as well I am apparently the first American order for the 850 I really should post a review of it. 

There were two issues purchasing the gear. 

1- they didn't have black feet options at the time
2- I had to get a balanced headphone cable. 

The first issue was solved with a simple email. The second one was much harder... I had to spend twenty minutes researching cables. (First world problems) 

Violectric USA customer service is absolutely brilliant. This of course was my first jump into headphones and as you can see it was a major one. I only had a little bit of doubt about maybe being a little bit crazy until there was a headfi meet in Phoenix earlier this year. I had the pleasure of listening to a lot of different gear and setups. I was looking for a pretty pure exact studio sound and I got that with my setup. Are there better things out there? Yes. But I honestly have exactly what I was looking for with this purchase. Not many people can state that with their first foray into something.


----------



## 3083joe

13713 said:


> Thanks. I would have gone down the tube amp route but with vinyl as my love that was just one additional rabbit hole I did not want to go down.
> 
> So after lurking for a few years and really liking what I was reading about Violectric especially after Project86 did a review of the 281 I decided to take the plunge. Picked up the 281 and 600 for my just ordered HD800 headphones. When I placed the order Violectric USA just put the 850 up on their page and with the discount they had at that time I figured I would purchase it as well I am apparently the first American order for the 850 I really should post a review of it.
> 
> ...



I understand completely. 
And the tube game is quite a rabbit hole. 
Switch to v281 and couldn't be happier. 
Vinyl and tubes can be frustrating. 
New Ayre phono stage is loving the v281.


----------



## S Crowther

This is the first amp I have come across (admittedly not having owned many) that drives the Ultrasone edition 10 without treble "tizz" or distortion.
Gain set at +12 and flat equalization from the balanced out of my AK240 produces the results. Pure and silvery but with body and plenty of punch.


----------



## musicbuff

3083joe said:


> I understand completely.
> And the tube game is quite a rabbit hole.
> Switch to v281 and couldn't be happier.
> Vinyl and tubes can be frustrating.
> New Ayre phono stage is loving the v281.


 

 Vinyl playback can get pretty expensive (vinyl record cleaner, turntable, phonoamp, cartridge, etc.)  I own maybe 30 LP's, most bought 30 to 50 years ago. With a Pioneer turntable bought 36 years ago, I've converted many albums to FLAC files on my computer with Audacity,  Other albums I've found and bought their CD version and stored them as FLAC files on my computer.  I had a brief experience with tubes when I had the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball HP amp.  Didn't have the patience (or wallet) for tube rolling.  The sound of different tube combinations was too unpredictable for me. I've even seen a few articles about the return of reel to reel. But that's the great thing about music, its variety. And no matter what your fancy Violectric V-281 is going to make it sound it's best!


----------



## galacticsoap

Greetings all any Headfi'rs looking for a 240v V281 let me know as I'll be selling my one soon!


----------



## S Crowther

Thinking of buying a new headphone for the v281.
Already have Ultrasone Ed.10, LCD3F and AKG 812.

Any suggestions what would suit the amp?


----------



## phonomat

If money = no object, try the Pioneer SE-Master1. I'm listening to the TRON LEGACY soundtrack right now via this combination, and I honestly can't imagine that audio could get much better than this. Boy, oh boy.


----------



## Ultrainferno

s crowther said:


> Thinking of buying a new headphone for the v281.
> Already have Ultrasone Ed.10, LCD3F and AKG 812.
> 
> Any suggestions what would suit the amp?


 
  
 HD800, HE-1000 and why not the Abyss
  


phonomat said:


> If money = no object, try the Pioneer SE-Master1. I'm listening to the TRON LEGACY soundtrack right now via this combination, and I honestly can't imagine that audio could get much better than this. Boy, oh boy.


 
  
 I listened to the Master1 a couple of times but it doesn't do anything to me, maybe for half the price


----------



## mulder01

1 more vote for the abyss
  
 Honestly though, is there any headphone that _doesn't_ really go with the v281?  HE-6 maybe?  The list would be short...


----------



## phonomat

ultrainferno said:


> HD800, HE-1000 and why not the Abyss
> 
> 
> I listened to the Master1 a couple of times but it doesn't do anything to me, maybe for half the price


 
  
 Same here with the HD800!


----------



## TonyNewman

mulder01 said:


> 1 more vote for the abyss
> 
> Honestly though, is there any headphone that _doesn't_ really go with the v281?  HE-6 maybe?  The list would be short...


 
  
 I *love *my modded HE6 with my V281. Beats my HD800S, modded HD800, Ether C and anything else I have plugged into it. Drives it easily with the gain ramped up to maximum. Not many amps can do that.
  
 I should point out that my HE6 is heavily modded (blutak, fuzzor, felt, vegan pads, grill removal - the works).
  
 One thing I am curious about - I never bothered with the DAC option for the V281 since I had a Vega when I ordered the V281 (since upgraded to a Hegel HD30). The V281 seems to scale with better DACs very well. My thinking is that it is a much better amp then the built in DAC option would suggest (or even paired with a V800/V850 DAC). It seems to suffer in some reviews / customer feedback due to the built-in DAC? Any comments from folks that have used the built-in DAC option vs high end external DAC?
  
 My V281 takes off spectacularly with the HD30 DAC + HE6 combination.


----------



## TonyNewman

archeryc said:


> ... I have to say the V281 and Moon 430HA is very close performance...


 
  
 As a former owner of the 430HA and a current owner of the V281 I have to respectfully disagree with this statement.
  
 Both amps have warmth and musicality and oodles of power - the V281 does not sacrifice bags of detail, punch and speed to do it - the 430HA does.
  
 As always, YMMV.
  
_Now awaiting the obligatory intervention of the defender of all things 430HA (who AFAIK does not even own a V281, but jumps into any thread where the 430HA is referred to in anything less than glowing terms ... you know who you are)._


----------



## mulder01

tonynewman said:


> I *love *my modded HE6 with my V281. Beats my HD800S, modded HD800, Ether C and anything else I have plugged into it. Drives it easily with the gain ramped up to maximum. Not many amps can do that.
> 
> I should point out that my HE6 is heavily modded (blutak, fuzzor, felt, vegan pads, grill removal - the works).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was going to buy the add on dac board for my v281 and the salesman pretty much said I would be an idiot to buy one.  Not exactly in those words, but yeah - very much steered me away from it.  I'm sure it's not that bad...


----------



## TonyNewman

mulder01 said:


> I was going to buy the add on dac board for my v281 and the salesman pretty much said I would be an idiot to buy one.  Not exactly in those words, but yeah - very much steered me away from it.  I'm sure it's not that bad...


 
  
 The V281 amp certainly seems to make the most of being fed from better DACs.
  
 I threw my cash at the upgraded volume pot. Not sure that makes much difference (never heard the base model).


----------



## mulder01

Personally I think the volume pot upgrade is just a luxury.  Kinda like leather seats in a car.  They don't actually do anything, you just have leather seats, just 'cause.
  
 I know they talk about channel imbalance but if anyone can pick a stock volume knob v281 vs an upgraded volume knob v281, blind, I will give them my hat.


----------



## sandalaudio

I ended up getting the remote control volume option (super handy and smooth), but not the relay volume.
  
 I did compare the relay v.s. pot option, but frankly I couldn't tell them apart. The main reason why I went with the remote pot option was because the relay felt very clunky and not very nice to operate. Whenever I adjusted the volume, the distinct jumps in volume were felt as "blip" sound, which was quite annoying. I guess it's nice that V281 gives you the option for one or the other.
  
 The internal DAC module for the V281 felt quite outdated and "off the shelf" design. I was a bit disappointed when I looked at it, because it is pretty basic with not much going for it, in terms of USB isolation, reclocking, jitter reduction, D/A, I/V etc. The sound is very straightforward and clean. Nothing wrong with it but other external DACs could bring out more from the V281 amp.
  
 S/PDIF and USB DACs from other companies have moved on a long way over the past few years, not just the D/A chip itself (ESS, AKM, whatever), but in terms of care and attention put in to ensure the data and power input is as clean as possible. The add-on DAC module for V281 doesn't live in this day and age, so I am hoping that Violectric can release some modern up-to-date DAC modules to keep up to date.
  
 I'm currently using an iFi micro iDAC2 to go with the V281, because it sounded nice to my ears.


----------



## 13713

I really want an HE-6. I have heard the 1000 but there is something magical about the 6.

I have the enhanced knob and volume controller but honestly they are not needed.


----------



## project86

For the DAC option, I'd say it is worth it as a sort of backup. For example, if you are looking for a new expensive DAC in the future but aren't sure what you'll want, you can use the integrated DAC in between demo units. It's not a terrible DAC by any means and if sold alone I think it would be competitive for $300-400 or so. Maybe not top of the heap in that price range, but not lagging too far behind either. It's neutral and inoffensive which is more than I can say for many affordable DACs or sub-$500 CD players.
  
 Problem is, it's paired with one of the best amps available, so being decent or slightly above average is not enough. Then again, it does not cost all that much so expectations must be kept in check. I do wonder how the SPDIF version would sound when fed by a nice DDC - something good but cheap like the Breeze Audio U8.
  
 As for the volume upgrade, I'm probably one of the few people to have spent time with both versions concurrently. For me, I chose the relay option because it _does _offer a tad more clarity. It's subtle, but that's often the order of the day when trying to improve on an already very good device. Is it worth the fairly significant price increase? That's a personal decision and I would certainly not argue with someone who decided to skip it. The money may very well be better spent on another aspect of your system.


----------



## TonyNewman

project86 said:


> ...Problem is, it's paired with one of the best amps available, so being decent or slightly above average is not enough....


 
  
 Thank you - exactly what I was trying to say (and not doing it all that well).
  
 The V281 amp is a much, much better unit than the built-in DAC (apples and oranges there, but I hope folks get what I mean - the amp sits pretty high up the amp pecking order, while DAC isn't in the same league of goodness for DACs).
  
 Trying to review / assess the V281 with the built in DAC is not giving the amp an opportunity to show what it can do.
  
 My experience is that the V281 amp scales like crazy with a better DAC. From the Vega to the Hegel HD30, the V281 lifted its game accordingly, and the Vega is definitely not a mediocre DAC to start with.
  
 I'm glad you noticed a SQ lift from the relay volume control. I got mine with this option - but have never had a chance for A/B testing to see if I could pick a difference.


----------



## sandalaudio

I guess the most important thing is that this DAC add-on card is only 200 euro (so about $220 USD). It's a bit unfair to compare that against some of the very musical high end units out there.
  
 As a convenient all-in-one solution, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. There's certainly no need to take it out if it's already installed.
  
 To me, it kind of reminds me of what Lehmann Audio did with their Black Cube Linear headphone amp many years ago. The amp itself was fantastic and class leading for the time, but then they later chucked in a tiny generic USB DAC board which didn't sound very good. It ended up being the weak link in the system.
  
 I think V281 is a fantastic headphone amp that really reveal every little detail from what's connected upstream. I don't think any DAC or whatever source will be considered an overkill for V281.


----------



## lunz

I am set as well to go into the DAC course for the V281, as I was previously using the internal USB 24/192, but due to intensive use, it stoped working. Sending the unit back would cost too much for where I live so now is the time to find an End Game contender.
  
 Just wondering if I should look into the V850 or should I consider aiming higher (max 3000USD) to complement our Amp.


----------



## 13713

lunz said:


> I am set as well to go into the DAC course for the V281, as I was previously using the internal USB 24/192, but due to intensive use, it stoped working. Sending the unit back would cost too much for where I live so now is the time to find an End Game contender.
> 
> Just wondering if I should look into the V850 or should I consider aiming higher (max 3000USD) to complement our Amp.


 
 DAC's are a personal preference. I have the V850 and absolutely love it but if you have a chance to audition some DAC's I would do that. Another one to consider is Schiit Audio's Yggdrasil. A lot of people love it and the small session I had with it I was impressed. Three thousand USD is a lot of breathing room so you will have a ton of options. 
  
 I went with the V850 for the following reasons: 
  
 I already was ordering the V281
 I needed a phono pre-amp as well so had to take that cost factor into consideration as my main source is vinyl.
 I wanted balanced outputs
 I do not need DSD capabilities
 I wanted it to match my stack (stupid reason really and should not be taken into consideration as it does not affect the audio chain)


----------



## phase0

lunz said:


> I am set as well to go into the DAC course for the V281, as I was previously using the internal USB 24/192, but due to intensive use, it stoped working. Sending the unit back would cost too much for where I live so now is the time to find an End Game contender.
> 
> Just wondering if I should look into the V850 or should I consider aiming higher (max 3000USD) to complement our Amp.


 
  
 I spent a lot of time reading everything I could about Schiit and the Yggdrasil. I've got a Yggy that is past 200 hrs of burn in. It sounds amazing. There's a whole argument Schiit makes about bit-perfect sample preservation that their R2R DAC does versus most other DAC implementations which are sigma-delta. My understanding is still fairly shallow if I'm honest with myself. Regardless the net result for my is a noticeable step up in quality from my Mytek DAC. Some of the treble harshness is cleaned up. I'm quite happy with that choice. There's another thread called 'Life After Yggdrasil?' you should check out. That is a no cost ceiling search for something better than Yggy. Opinions and goals being all personal and subjective standard caveats apply. My takeaway from it all was go buy a Yggy I don't have budget for a $4k+ DAC and it will be hard to find anything in the Yggy price range that is better.
  
 I also just plugged in the V281 (just got it back). Volume knob is fixed. They said electrically the unit was fine. There was also a problem with one of the board's mounting so I had a few gold washers and nuts loose in the back because they didn't thread. Also got confirmed the annoying popping in the relay wasn't just me being an idiot. I'm back with the first volume upgrade which gives me a smooth knob and remote control functionality. I haven't tried it with the Mytek to check volume level at zero which was a previous complaint, but with the Yggy and V281 at zero volume it's totally quiet. The V281 behaves like what I would expect it to behave like. A couple casual songs from the collection it sounds good. I also need a volume control with the Yggy so maybe the V281 will become my $2k volume knob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I could get a passive pre-amp or something from Schiit for much cheaper but I also think I want an instant-on amp sometimes without having to wait for the tube amp to warm up. Anyways informally I am enjoying V281 + Yggy. I also don't think I'm as picky as some of the most discerning audiophiles out there so I think I'm easier to please. I'll warm up my Woo WA5 a bit later and try to A/B with the V281 later.


----------



## sandalaudio

phase0 said:


> I also need a volume control with the Yggy so maybe the V281 will become my $2k volume knob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think Yggdrasil is a great DAC. It's a perfect example of how there is no such thing as an overkill.
  
 Using the V281 as a line out volume knob for your Yggdrasil, the sound will change somewhat compared to a passive pre, so you will have to listen and see whether you like it or not.
 Particularly for XLR in/out, V281 puts the input signal through a single ended summing amp then to the volume knob, then back to balanced again, so there is active buffer amplification happening even for the rear XLR output.
  
 Same reason why we shouldn't care too much about whether the DAC is balanced or not, since it's independent of the balanced headphone amp section. Best to just choose the DAC based on how it sounds.


----------



## phase0

sandalaudio said:


> I think Yggdrasil is a great DAC. It's a perfect example of how there is no such thing as an overkill.
> 
> Using the V281 as a line out volume knob for your Yggdrasil, the sound will change somewhat compared to a passive pre, so you will have to listen and see whether you like it or not.
> Particularly for XLR in/out, V281 puts the input signal through a single ended summing amp then to the volume knob, then back to balanced again, so there is active buffer amplification happening even for the rear XLR output.
> ...


 
  
 Right now I'm doing (1) Yggy balanced out ->  V281, and (2) Yggy RCA out -> WooAudio WA5. I heard the WA5 isn't truly balanced anyways and RCA might even sound better than the XLR. I can't really tell any difference TBH. I haven't tried routing the signal out of the V281 but I was hoping to do that for my Powered Monitors. That would prevent the accidents I had with the Mytek where I forget to switch from bypass back to internal volume control and get a blast at 100% out of the monitors. IIRC the V281 also has the option to bypass the volume circuitry for the output but then I did say $2k volume knob. Right now I'm sick of shopping. I'm probably not going to try the passive-pre option unless for some reason I decide I don't want to keep the V281 in the next week. Really it's pretty good and on it's own I'm quite enjoying it (not trying to compare to things and do A/B right now).


----------



## thomascrown

phase0 said:


> There was also a problem with one of the board's mounting so I had a few gold washers and nuts loose in the back because they didn't thread. Also got confirmed the annoying popping in the relay wasn't just me being an idiot. I'm back with the first volume upgrade which gives me a smooth knob and remote control functionality.


 
 I'm kinda tempted to send back my v281 as well to check the same issue.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

tonynewman said:


> As a former owner of the 430HA and a current owner of the V281 I have to respectfully disagree with this statement.
> 
> Both amps have warmth and musicality and oodles of power - the V281 does not sacrifice bags of detail, punch and speed to do it - the 430HA does.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tony, you mostly talk about the V281 as opposed to the 430HA as it's your latest change I guess. Could you (try to) place the Taurus Mk2 in the equation? I think I'm more interested in the technicality domain than the tonality domain (though don't let that refrain you from commenting on both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). You can adjust for tonality by better pairings or equalizing, but you can't bring back sacrificed bags of detail, punch and speed...
  
 Thanks!


----------



## TonyNewman

coldassault said:


> Tony, you mostly talk about the V281 as opposed to the 430HA as it's your latest change I guess. Could you (try to) place the Taurus Mk2 in the equation? I think I'm more interested in the technicality domain than the tonality domain (though don't let that refrain you from commenting on both
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Taurus is technically excellent. Detailed, fast, punchy, dynamic. It can get slightly bright and doesn't pack the power to fully drive the HE6. Note that I like neutral-ish headphones (HE6 / HD800S ...etc). With darker headphones - like LCD-whatever - the match would probably be better. I did notice the Taurus lose its composure *slightly* on some complex passages of music - but this is nitpicking. It is an excellent amp. I replaced it because I wanted more power to drive the HE6 and the tonality was a little bright for the headphones I like to use. I thought the 430HA would be the answer - it wasn't. Than I found the V281 and happiness. As always, YMMV.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

tonynewman said:


> Taurus is technically excellent. Detailed, fast, punchy, dynamic. It can get slightly bright and doesn't pack the power to fully drive the HE6. Note that I like neutral-ish headphones (HE6 / HD800S ...etc). With darker headphones - like LCD-whatever - the match would probably be better. I did notice the Taurus lose its composure *slightly* on some complex passages of music - but this is nitpicking. It is an excellent amp. I replaced it because I wanted more power to drive the HE6 and the tonality was a little bright for the headphones I like to use. I thought the 430HA would be the answer - it wasn't. Than I found the V281 and happiness. As always, YMMV.




Thanks a bunch  That leaves the GS-X Mk2 as an upgrade option...


----------



## project86

I totally agree with that assessment of the Taurus. It's a beautiful piece of equipment but these days there are plenty of good alternatives to consider.
  
 I suspect the V280 would be a good choice for a similarly priced, similarly powerful amp that gives a somewhat less bright signature.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

project86 said:


> I totally agree with that assessment of the Taurus. It's a beautiful piece of equipment but these days there are plenty of good alternatives to consider.
> 
> I suspect the V280 would be a good choice for a similarly priced, similarly powerful amp that gives a somewhat less bright signature.




You make me curious for some other alternatives...


----------



## zeissiez

I hope this is as high fidelity as the v281, fully balanced solid state amp<->tube amp at a flick of a switch, priced at USD1699 is very reasonable

 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/pro-ican/


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## mulder01

I had the idsd micro.  Was fairly respectable next to the v281.  Just a bit more fatiguing for me.  A bit brighter.


----------



## Mist3rLao

Better late than never! This thing turned my HE-500 into a completely different beast! 

Hoping a good burn-in and the incoming Level 5.2 AntiCables would take it a notch higher.


----------



## YugiRider2

Anyone know how I can measure the loudness (in DB) of the music I'm listening to?
 Apparently I listen to music too loud and so I fear for my hearing.


----------



## project86

coldassault said:


> You make me curious for some other alternatives...


 
  
  
 Cayin iHA-6 is very, VERY close to the Taurus. Like 95% of the sound signature. For $999. More power too, despite the smaller size. It has a few drawbacks in comparison but they aren't sound related. My review should be up at InnerFidelity in the next week or so.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

project86 said:


> Cayin iHA-6 is very, VERY close to the Taurus. Like 95% of the sound signature. For $999. More power too, despite the smaller size. It has a few drawbacks in comparison but they aren't sound related. My review should be up at InnerFidelity in the next week or so.




Looking forward to it. Gonna be an entertaining read as usual. You spoke in plural... any other amps that come to mind?


----------



## project86

Potentially but I'm still on my initial listening, so I want to be sure before I make any declarations.


----------



## phonomat

yugirider2 said:


> Anyone know how I can measure the loudness (in DB) of the music I'm listening to?
> Apparently I listen to music too loud and so I fear for my hearing.




There are apps that you can download on your phone and place it inside your headphone's cups. While presumably not the most precise form of measurement, it might give you a general idea about how loud you really listen.


----------



## Mist3rLao

I currently have a Hugo feeding my V281, do you guys think that pairing it with either the Hugo TT, Auralic Vega, or Violectric V850 provide a significant improvement?


----------



## mulder01

yugirider2 said:


> Anyone know how I can measure the loudness (in DB) of the music I'm listening to?
> Apparently I listen to music too loud and so I fear for my hearing.


 
  
 I suppose you'd need to buy an SPL meter to get an accurate figure


----------



## Sinarca

And the threshold to avoiding ears damage is.... .I don' know..


----------



## phonomat

Like with all good things in life, it's the length that matters. Or shall we say the amount. Sola dosis facit venenum. If you listen loudly, do so for a short timespan. There are charts on the web that demonstrate reasonable ratios as a rough guide.


----------



## project86

phonomat said:


> Like with all good things in life, it's the length that matters. Or shall we say the amount. Sola dosis facit venenum. If you listen loudly, do so for a short timespan. There are charts on the web that demonstrate reasonable ratios as a rough guide.


 
  
 This.
  
 Here's a link to my article from InnerFidelity a few years back, covering the basics. Personally, I use a Radio Shack SPL meter to get a decent idea of what my levels are.


----------



## xxx1313

I am extremely satisfied with Vega und V281 with good source files. The V281 is for me simply the best headamp at its price! A friend also just bought a V281 after listening to many solid-state headamps, Bryston, SPL and even Moon 430ha included. Of course, it is also a matter of taste, but I simply like the very slight warm (nearly tube-like) touch of the V281 without losing neutrality and any details. In my opinion the Vega is very picky concerning many factors: the quality of source files, digital input quality and cables (power cable and especially XLR-cable make a real difference to my ears). So it scales very well, too! I feed the Vega with an Astell & Kern AK240 (via toslink), which sounds considerably better my previos computer sources (with Regen etc.).
  
  
 Quote:


tonynewman said:


> My experience is that the V281 amp scales like crazy with a better DAC. From the Vega to the Hegel HD30, the V281 lifted its game accordingly, and the Vega is definitely not a mediocre DAC to start with.


  
@TonyNewman
 ​Could you please elaborate on the differences between the Vega and Hegel HD30 in combination with the V281? I am extremely satisfied with my Vega, but at some point in the future the time for another trade-up may come! 
  
 Cheers,
 Bernie (xxx1313) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





​


----------



## TonyNewman

xxx1313 said:


>


 
  
 Initially, not a lot. It took quite a while for the HD30 to settle down and do it's best work.
  
 Once it had 300+ hours on it the differences were subtle, but significant. Highlights were:
  
 1) Treble rendering. The Vega can get a little harsh and "steely" at times with the treble. Not sure if this is related to the Sabre chipset or not. The treble via the HD30 is detailed, smooth, and lovely. Really, really nice in a way that the Vega just couldn't deliver. This is, by far, the best thing about the DAC upgrade for me.
  
 2) Soundstage size and positioning. Soundstage is bigger and has a depth that the Vega did not. If the source material is good enough, you get much more precession in the positioning of each source, particularly with the HD800/HD800S. For instrumental or classical music the difference can be quite stark.
  
 3) Background is quieter. This is a subtle one - not sure if it is real or just inside my head - but the perception is that the background is "blacker", if that makes sense.
  
 4) Overall smoothness without sacrificing detail or dynamics. Vega can get a little rough at times (comparatively).
  
 Keep in mind that this is all comparative. The Vega remains a highly capable DAC in itself. My audio buddy that I sold it to is thrilled with it - it has lifted his system by several notches. The upgrade from the Vega to the HD30 did lift my system significantly, but was it worth the considerable cost? That's a subjective question - for me it was, but YMMV. The HD30 is getting into the high end DACs where pricing really starts to take off to insane levels. Not quite crazy, but definitely on the path to crazy.
  
 I was fortunate to have both DACs for a few weeks to A/B test before letting the Vega go to its new home, so I do feel comfortable in stating the above differences.


----------



## Mist3rLao

For those using their V281 with a Hugo, is there an ideal output signal level setting on the Hugo to properly match the V281?

I currently have the Chord Hugo in default volume bypass mode, which is supposed to be 3Vrms, and the V281 in +6db pre gain, powering an HE-500.


----------



## manpowre

mist3rlao said:


> For those using their V281 with a Hugo, is there an ideal output signal level setting on the Hugo to properly match the V281?
> 
> I currently have the Chord Hugo in default volume bypass mode, which is supposed to be 3Vrms, and the V281 in +6db pre gain, powering an HE-500.


 
 I dont know the chord hugo specifically, but with other DAC's the max output is preferred to bypass the pre-amp circuits in the DAC. I use the Hegel HD25, which bypasses the pre-amp circuit at max sound level. This is why I also put my Oppo HA-1 to 3/4th turn on the volume knob as when I measured with a ADC I found that was identically sound level as the Hegel HD25 output to 100 bypassing the pre-amp circuits. 
 Using a gain doesnt sound like something that should be done, it increases noise level on the DAC output, and rather use the great V281 as the signal amplifier.
  
 Just my thoughts though.


----------



## manpowre

s crowther said:


> Thinking of buying a new headphone for the v281.
> Already have Ultrasone Ed.10, LCD3F and AKG 812.
> 
> Any suggestions what would suit the amp?


 
 Pioneer SE-Master1 is definetely a good option, but the LCD3F you have is a match for SE-Master1. 
  
 After I got LCD4, it was a step up by a few notches in many ways, more bass control, deeper tones than LCD3 (2015) and more balanced soundstage through mid-tone to treble once used on-ear and listening to eg. female vocals.
  
 When I listened to SE-Master1 I compared it to HD800S. and SE-Master1 didnt have the treble control and highs as the HD800S. I got the treble control with the LCD3, but it was a little of the uncomfortable female vocals and mid-range violin that made me think, hmm,, seems like it can get better.
  
 Then LCD4 arrived. man. first impression is the combination of HD800S, the SE-Master1 and the LCD3. LCD4 complements the 3 different headphones Ive heard and a bit more. Just more details and air than I heard on HD800S, together with the deep bass and punch with no uncomfortable tones even playing loud. But LCD4 draws alot of power, so V281 is recommended as it can drive them by any means!
  
 I listened to my Oppo HA-1 as amp too, I just switched back to V281, with LCD4 its very very obvious which is the better amp of those two (this test used the HA-1 as dac in both cases, the difference was the HA-1 amp part only compared to V281).


----------



## xxx1313

@TonyNewman​
  
 Many thanks for your detailed description! Yes, the Vega can be a bit harsh, but the culprit is bad or mediocre source material, most of the times. It seems the upgrade has been a good decision for you. Have much fun with the HD30! Maybe I can get a used HD30 for a reasonable price at some point in the future.
  
 Thanks,
 Bernie


----------



## TonyNewman

xxx1313 said:


> @TonyNewman​
> 
> Many thanks for your detailed description! Yes, the Vega can be a bit harsh, but the culprit is bad or mediocre source material, most of the times. It seems the upgrade has been a good decision for you. Have much fun with the HD30! Maybe I can get a used HD30 for a reasonable price at some point in the future.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Bernie,
  
 I am running the same source material (hardware and files) with the HD30 as I was with the Vega. To my ears there is a noticeable and consistent improvement in smoothness, without sacrificing detail or dynamics, in the HD30 over the Vega - this is much more noticeable in the treble than the mids or bass. Usual caveat applies - the Vega is an excellent unit for the money and the differences are relatively small.
  
 Going from the Vega to the HD30 is spending significant bucks for a 10 or 15% SQ improvement. I thought it was worth it, but not everyone will agree. Both my amps scaled very well with the improved DAC (V281 for solid state and Glenn 300B for tube).
  
 Lots of great DAC options in a similar price range of the HD30. I went with Hegel mostly because I was very happy with the P20 preamp and I like the company approach (true to source, especially the dynamics). Many, many great DACs out there around the 5K mark.


----------



## xxx1313

Yeah, thanks for the clarification. Especially the Metrum Pavane might also be a DAC to consider. However, I prefer a DAC with a pre-amp, so the Hegel HD30 seems to be a better option for my needs. Of course I will try to test both, but they are not easily available for a listening session in Austria or southern Germany. So let's wait and see...


----------



## manpowre

xxx1313 said:


> Yeah, thanks for the clarification. Especially the Metrum Pavane might also be a DAC to consider. However, I prefer a DAC with a pre-amp, so the Hegel HD30 seems to be a better option for my needs. Of course I will try to test both, but they are not easily available for a listening session in Austria or southern Germany. So let's wait and see...


 
 Dont forget that HD30 has the streamer too!! which is great running music from a phone or tablet. Once you add a computer, USB cable to the mix with other DAC's you can easily scale that up to HD30 price difference.
  
 Im getting a loaner HD30 for review this weekend. well see if its worth the price difference for me as I got the HD25.


----------



## phonomat

manpowre said:


> Pioneer SE-Master1 is definetely a good option, but the LCD3F you have is a match for SE-Master1.
> 
> After I got LCD4, it was a step up by a few notches in many ways, more bass control, deeper tones than LCD3 (2015) and more balanced soundstage through mid-tone to treble once used on-ear and listening to eg. female vocals.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmmm, LCD-3 and Master1 are veeery different animals. Nigh impossible to compare, I'd say. I don't personally own an LCD-3, but from memory it sounded significantly darker and more closed in than the Master-1; soundstage and resolution are worlds apart, IMHO. So is the LCD-3, in whatever incarnation, a "match" for the Master1? I really don't think so. Would it be suited as a complementary headphone? Maybe.
 Perhaps it might be more fitting to describe the SE-Master1 as a crossbreed btw. HD800 and LCD-3 or indeed, as many have said, HD800 and TH-900. Don't know how the LCD-4 fits in the picture, since I haven't heard it yet. Your description certainly makes it sound nice, so that might be interesting, however I'm a little wary of Audeze for numerous (not necessarily sound-related) reasons.


----------



## TonyNewman

manpowre said:


> Dont forget that HD30 has the streamer too!! which is great running music from a phone or tablet. Once you add a computer, USB cable to the mix with other DAC's you can easily scale that up to HD30 price difference.
> 
> Im getting a loaner HD30 for review this weekend. well see if its worth the price difference for me as I got the HD25.


 
  
 I haven't used the streaming feature yet. I run my HD30 from my PC via USB, and from an Onkyo iPod dock via SPDIF. As per the Vega, I find that USB gives a slightly better SQ than SPDIF.
  
 The balanced output I send to the V281. RCA output I split to the Glenn 300B amp and the Hegel P20 preamp. The P20 then feeds my Accuphase P-4200 power amp.
  
 PS Audio P3 provides the juice. I had a custom rack made to accommodate all the hardware (with some space left over for a KGSSHV Carbon - maybe, one day).


----------



## xxx1313

manpowre said:


> Im getting a loaner HD30 for review this weekend. well see if its worth the price difference for me as I got the HD25.


 
  
 Would be great if you could post or PM some impressions then. Especially the sound quality of the toslink input would be interesting for me, if you have the possibility to test it.
  
 Thanks in advance, Bernie.


----------



## manpowre

xxx1313 said:


> Would be great if you could post or PM some impressions then. Especially the sound quality of the toslink input would be interesting for me, if you have the possibility to test it.
> 
> Thanks in advance, Bernie.


 
 I actually dont have a tosling out unit  unless I use the Chrome Audio unit but that has proven itself to have jittter so that wouldnt be a valid test. Im going to review the DAC itself with USB and the streamer, and high resolution files to consider if its worth it for me to invest in one HD30 or keep my HD25.


----------



## project86

tonynewman said:


> I haven't used the streaming feature yet. I run my HD30 from my PC via USB, and from an Onkyo iPod dock via SPDIF. As per the Vega, I find that USB gives a slightly better SQ than SPDIF.
> 
> The balanced output I send to the V281. RCA output I split to the Glenn 300B amp and the Hegel P20 preamp. The P20 then feeds my Accuphase P-4200 power amp.
> 
> PS Audio P3 provides the juice. I had a custom rack made to accommodate all the hardware (with some space left over for a KGSSHV Carbon - maybe, one day).


 
  
  
 Very nice setup! What is that Accuphase driving?


----------



## xxx1313

manpowre said:


> I actually dont have a tosling out unit  unless I use the Chrome Audio unit but that has proven itself to have jittter so that wouldnt be a valid test. Im going to review the DAC itself with USB and the streamer, and high resolution files to consider if its worth it for me to invest in one HD30 or keep my HD25.


 

 ​Perfect, thank you!


----------



## TonyNewman

project86 said:


> Very nice setup! What is that Accuphase driving?


 
  
 A pair of Brodmann F2s. Very nice speaker for vocal-centric or classical/instrumental listening.


----------



## S Crowther

Silly question I am sure but can someone explain why setting the gain at +6 or +12 alters the sq making it brighter and more edgy?


----------



## TonyNewman

Not silly at all.
  
 I didn't notice any SQ difference when increasing the gain settings, but I didn't A/B test it all that much. It is a pain to test as you have to power down the amp to adjust the settings.
  
 Anyone else A/B test the gain settings and can comment?


----------



## YugiRider2

Didn't even know such a phenomenon existed. May I ask where you found out that information?


----------



## S Crowther

Just by experimenting.


----------



## manpowre

s crowther said:


> Silly question I am sure but can someone explain why setting the gain at +6 or +12 alters the sq making it brighter and more edgy?


 
 Well, interesting question as I found something with my V281 that is quiet interesting, only after I recieved the Audeze LCD4.
  
 So when I recieved the LCD4 I had to turn the knob to 3 and 4 o clock to make them sound somehow loud and get punch, as with the 100 ohm LCD3 it was quiet loud at 11 o clock with max 12 o clock for low sounding recordings.
  
 The first impression, was amazing soundstage, but I felt it was some warm sound, not the correct bass punch, so I started running LCD4 for run-in, and 2 days ago I changed the jumper on back of my V281 to +6db gain on the pre-signal. Then I just had to turn the volume knob to 12 o clock for it to sound loud but not too loud. at 1 o clock with +6db gain its loud (the limit I will use not to risk hearing damage).
  
 What I felt was more correct lower tones, and bass was more tight with +6 db gain. Less warm sound and more accuracy and control.
  
 Then I wondered what the heck was going on ? and I found the answer in the V281 manual:
 "The frequency range covers 5 Hz ... 70 kHz (-0.5 dB) or 3 Hz…200 kHz respectively (-3 dB), in order to ensure fully linear performance within the entire audible range"
 "Too loud ? Too soft ? The PRE-GAIN method "
  
 So in other words, when volume knob is turned too high eg. on gain setting to 0db the amp passes the -3 db point when volume knob is turned too high for instance at 3 and 4 o clock, and the sound gets soft according to the manual. The -3 db mark is to ensure linear reproduction of sound below -3db.
  
 So this is why the gain can be changed, to increase pre-signal +6 or +12db depending on impedance on our headphones to ensure we stay below the amp's -3db mark when listening to our favourite music.
  
 I hope I understood this correctly. please adjust me if its not.
  
 Here is the manual:
 http://violectric-usa.com/download/Violectric%20V281%20Manual.pdf


----------



## xxx1313

s crowther said:


> Silly question I am sure but can someone explain why setting the gain at +6 or +12 alters the sq making it brighter and more edgy?


 
  
  
 I also had that impression when I tried it. The volume knob was around 12 o'clock, not at or past 3 o'clock, so the gain seems to slightly change the sound signature in general. I am no technician, but I would expect that pre-gain uses another (additional) circuit that apparently has some impact on the sound. At least to my ears the V281 sounds best without pre-gain, which is easily possible in my setup with every headphone, because my DAC (Auralic Vega) has an integrated digital pre-amp.


----------



## molto1

Hallo ,

how does the V 281 works with an ifi iDSD micro as DAC ?


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, good enough as an interim solution.


----------



## mulder01

ifi iDSD micro dac is very capable indeed - does every bitrate you can imagine, bit perfect and everything. What's the concern?


----------



## molto1

will it be a big difference between wifi iDSD micro and the Violectric V 850 ?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, I know they are liked a lot around here but I actually didn't like the iDSD micro at all. Too harsh in the treble, a lot of glare, not particularly good in resolving. Anedio D2, Schiit Gungnir Gen 2 and V850 are simply much better. Still just use it as an interim solution until you can and WANTto  afford something better. Don't buy because somebody says so. Listen to it first. Get a loaner maybe? Ask in a HiFi shop?


----------



## molto1

the question is : i find the Original DAC in the V 281 not good enough and ask me
 if there is a big difference if i would take the ifi iDSD micro as a DAC or the Violectric V 850 as a DAC
 with the V 281 ?


----------



## molto1

@Fegefeuer   Thank you for the answer . Twill test the V 850.


----------



## manpowre

fegefeuer said:


> Well, I know they are liked a lot around here but I actually didn't like the iDSD micro at all. Too harsh in the treble, a lot of glare, not particularly good in resolving. Anedio D2, Schiit Gungnir Gen 2 and V850 are simply much better. Still just use it as an interim solution until you can and WANTto  afford something better. Don't buy because somebody says so. Listen to it first. Get a loaner maybe? Ask in a HiFi shop?


 
 The V281 can be a little bright too, so having a DAC thats also bright is not a good combo. I have the Oppo HA-1 which has a Sabre chipset and its not a good combo as a DAC feeding V281 at its pre-out to Pre-in on V281. If the IDSD micro is bright and harsh, it might not be a good combo. I found Schiit Yggdrasil to be a really good DAC with V281, its just perfect and V281 amplifies its output just with pure musicality Ive never heard before. 
  
 I also reviewed Hegel HD25 and HD30, being HD25 the better one for V281. THe HD30 is too crisp and sharp even though it goes deep, not harsh. HD25 is like the Schiit Yggdrasil.
  
 I do believe the other Schiit DACs will be paired with V281 just fine too.
  
 Mabye look for AMK chipset, which is known to be well balanced even to the deeper end of the spectrum. Sabre chipsets might be too bright.


----------



## project86

I'm always hesitant to use such generalizations - devices using Sabre chips can sound wildly different, as can those with AKM DAC chips. There are good and bad examples of each.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

manpowre said:


> The V281 can be a little bright too, so having a DAC thats also bright is not a good combo. I have the Oppo HA-1 which has a Sabre chipset and its not a good combo as a DAC feeding V281 at its pre-out to Pre-in on V281. If the IDSD micro is bright and harsh, it might not be a good combo. I found Schiit Yggdrasil to be a really good DAC with V281, its just perfect and V281 amplifies its output just with pure musicality Ive never heard before.
> 
> I also reviewed Hegel HD25 and HD30, being HD25 the better one for V281. THe HD30 is too crisp and sharp even though it goes deep, not harsh. HD25 is like the Schiit Yggdrasil.
> 
> ...




I pair the V281 with the Gunginir Multibit and think it's outstanding. I am tempted to try Yggdrasil in the future, but it's actually hard to imagine how it could sound better than it does now. But the imagining will probably get to my wallet eventually


----------



## ken6217

manpowre said:


> The V281 can be a little bright too, so having a DAC thats also bright is not a good combo. I have the Oppo HA-1 which has a Sabre chipset and its not a good combo as a DAC feeding V281 at its pre-out to Pre-in on V281. If the IDSD micro is bright and harsh, it might not be a good combo. I found Schiit Yggdrasil to be a really good DAC with V281, its just perfect and V281 amplifies its output just with pure musicality Ive never heard before.
> 
> I also reviewed Hegel HD25 and HD30, being HD25 the better one for V281. THe HD30 is too crisp and sharp even though it goes deep, not harsh. HD25 is like the Schiit Yggdrasil.
> 
> ...




You might be the only person that thinks the V281 is bright.


----------



## mulder01

ken6217 said:


> You might be the only person that thinks the V281 is bright.


 
  
 I was thinking the same thing - the general concensus on this forum seems to be that the 281 is fairly neutral.  A friend of mine was saying to me the other day that on another forum (can't remember which one) the general opinion was that it was very much on the warm side.  So I am definitely surprised to read that you considered it bright.


----------



## TonyNewman

Neutral-warm I would say, when compared to the Auralic Taurus, which I would call neutral-bright.
  
 If someone thinks the V281 is bright I wonder how they would describe the Taurus or GSX-Mk2 etc? Ultra-super-bright? The V281 is not bright.


----------



## phonomat

I second, nay fourth this emotion.


----------



## manpowre

Hehe, well I wrote "can" be a little bright, and some dac's "might" not be paired well with v281 and might be somehow bright. I think my norwegian native is talking a little here as we have it saying like this understood in a slightly little differet way.
  
 So let me elaborate. As Ive tested a bunch of different DACs I found the HD25 and Yggdrasil to be paired at its best out of those DACs Ive tested. (I havent tested bricasti, totaldac or hugo dac's). The V281 is so well made that it enhances the richness of the type of sound, like the Oppo HA-1 sabre chip that sounds too bright and sometimes make cutting upper mid-range somehow uncomfortable, at the same time sloppy bass. V281 enhances this and with that sound bright and not paired with the amp at its best.
 Then you have the HD25 which goes deep down and well balanced from bass through mid-range with nice accurate high notes. Unfortunately the reason I didnt keep the HD25 was due to an issue with USB but thats another story.
 The HD30 was crisp, too accurate and didnt sound natural, and some instruments were uncomfortable. V281 reproduced this extreme richness to an extent where it wasnt musical anymore.
  
 The Yggdrasil, reaches further deep down in the register than I heard on HD25, and also very controlled throughout the whole spectre. V281 reproduces this and amplifies this to a great extent.
  
 So what I meant was that V281 paired with a bright dac might not be the best as it enhances those specific audio quality parts and can sound un-natural. V281 paired with a rich sounding dac neutral throughout the sound spectre enhances this and makes it sound great.
  
 So what you feed the V281 you also get out amplified. That brings me back to people really have to review dac before purchase. Also it depends on type of headphone and to some extent analogue cables.


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

I got my v281 two days ago, does anyone else find it to have reduced highs/peaks. To me the music sounds almost smoothed out.
  
 Its good in the sense that it doesn't cause fatigue, I've listened to it for a whole day straight. But it feels as if the music is missing something, there are no peaks or harsh sounds that should sometimes be present in music such as heavy metal with bright distorted electric guitar.
  
 I'm not the best at audiophile terms but this is what i hear and it's been bothering me quite a bit since i really love every other aspect of the amp.


----------



## manpowre

chrisisawesome said:


> I got my v281 two days ago, does anyone else find it to have reduced highs/peaks. To me the music sounds almost smoothed out.
> 
> Its good in the sense that it doesn't cause fatigue, I've listened to it for a whole day straight. But it feels as if the music is missing something, there are no peaks or harsh sounds that should sometimes be present in music such as heavy metal with bright distorted electric guitar.
> 
> I'm not the best at audiophile terms but this is what i hear and it's been bothering me quite a bit since i really love every other aspect of the amp.


 
 In respect to what I wrote just above, what kind of DAC are you using, and type of headphone ?


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

AK100II and AKG 7xx.
 I'm able to comparing listening straight from the Dap where the treble is really sharp and clear whereas the v281 sound smoothed out, almost tinted. As I've read other say, it could be interpreted as warm.


----------



## JeffMann

chrisisawesome said:


> I got my v281 two days ago, does anyone else find it to have reduced highs/peaks. To me the music sounds almost smoothed out.
> 
> Its good in the sense that it doesn't cause fatigue, I've listened to it for a whole day straight. But it feels as if the music is missing something, there are no peaks or harsh sounds that should sometimes be present in music such as heavy metal with bright distorted electric guitar.
> 
> I'm not the best at audiophile terms but this is what i hear and it's been bothering me quite a bit since i really love every other aspect of the amp.


 
  
 I definitely don't think that the V281 has a reduced treble energy problem and that it is too smooth!!!
  
 Jeff.


----------



## zeissiez

jeffmann said:


> chrisisawesome said:
> 
> 
> > I got my v281 two days ago, does anyone else find it to have reduced highs/peaks. To me the music sounds almost smoothed out.
> ...




This is my concern with the v281 driving the HE1000. The HE1000 need special treatment to the leading edges. With some warm sounding amps, like the Teac UD-503, the leading edges were grossed over and the images lack outline. The GSX II amp which has a very slight upward tilt in the treble response, and has sharp transient edges, and is said to be the perfect match for the HE1000. So can someone comment on how the v281 and He1000 pairing fair in transient edge performance?


----------



## project86

chrisisawesome said:


> AK100II and AKG 7xx.
> I'm able to comparing listening straight from the Dap where the treble is really sharp and clear whereas the v281 sound smoothed out, almost tinted. As I've read other say, it could be interpreted as warm.


 
  
  
 The AK devices don't have what is usually called a "true" line-out. The output is placed after the volume stage, and at that point there's some degredation from running it through essentially two amplification stages (the AK, then the V281). That could result in some bad behavior.
  
 Also are you listening via the 1/4" output on the V281? Because the single ended output is also slightly darker or less resolving than the balanced out.


----------



## S Crowther

chrisisawesome said:


> AK100II and AKG 7xx.
> I'm able to comparing listening straight from the Dap where the treble is really sharp and clear whereas the v281 sound smoothed out, almost tinted. As I've read other say, it could be interpreted as warm.


 Also don't forget the amp needs about 50 hours to burn in. There is a noticeable improvement after that.


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

I'm running from single ended at the moment and continuing to burn in.
 I've run the AK through other amps, also I've tried both line out function and 85%volume as i know it doesn't bypass the internal amp. Along side my old iPod touch. 
  
 Since I'm only running single ended at the moment, does that mean only one of the amp sections is burning in not both?


----------



## JeffMann

zeissiez said:


> This is my concern with the v281 driving the HE1000. The HE1000 need special treatment to the leading edges. With some warm sounding amps, like the Teac UD-503, the leading edges were grossed over and the images lack outline. The GSX II amp which has a very slight upward tilt in the treble response, and has sharp transient edges, and is said to be the perfect match for the HE1000. So can someone comment on how the v281 and He1000 pairing fair in transient edge performance?


 

 I use my V281 with a HE1000 headphone as my primary headphone. I don't have a problem with leading edges that are too tamed. By contrast, if I use my HD800 headphone with my V281 then I have a problem with too much treble brightness and a slightly brittle leading edge problem. I blame the HD800 and not the V281, which I think is an amazingly neutral headphone amp.
  
 Jeff.


----------



## TonyNewman

manpowre said:


> ... The HD30 was crisp, too accurate and didnt sound natural, and some instruments were uncomfortable. ...


 
  
 Gotta agree 100% with this statement. The HD30 works quite fine with floor standers, but in the more intimate world of HeadFi the sound has a hard leading edge that becomes fatiguing and irritating fairly quickly. A rushed purchasing decision that I have come to regret.
  
 The interesting thing is that the V281 does a better job of smoothing out the hard leading edge than my Glenn 300B tube amp - so the 300B amp is more transparent in this case - so the V281 is definitely doing something with those harsh sounds (something good, in this case).
  
 I have stretched my audio budget way beyond the pain barrier and am replacing the HD30 with a Bricasti M1. Anyone tried the Bricasti + V281 combination?


----------



## mulder01

chrisisawesome said:


> Since I'm only running single ended at the moment, does that mean only one of the amp sections is burning in not both?


 
  
 The input doesn't matter, the output does - balanced out uses all 4 amps and single ended uses 2 - essentially you are listening to a v220 if you use the single ended out.  In which case, you may as well have bought a v220.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

tonynewman said:


> The interesting thing is that the V281 does a better job of smoothing out the hard leading edge than my Glenn 300B tube amp - so the 300B amp is more transparent in this case - so the V281 is definitely doing something with those harsh sounds (something good, in this case).
> 
> I have stretched my audio budget way beyond the pain barrier and am replacing the HD30 with a Bricasti M1. Anyone tried the Bricasti + V281 combination?


 
  
 This is what i hear. It's not transparent like the wa22 was, instead much smoother.
  
 Mulder, i got it on sale for a lot less than the v220 retail 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I figured it would only be using the bottom amp section, but what do you mean by input doesn't matter, unless it has a phase splitter you cant run true balanced out with SE inputs.


----------



## PleasantSounds

chrisisawesome said:


> AK100II and AKG 7xx.
> I'm able to comparing listening straight from the Dap where the treble is really sharp and clear whereas the v281 sound smoothed out, almost tinted. As I've read other say, it could be interpreted as warm.


 
  
 I have no direct experience with the AK100, but my suspicion is that it may not drive the 7XXs properly. It takes quite a lot of power and very low output impedance to do them justice.When underpowered, they tend to sound shrill and lean. So possible that only now they sound as they should.
  
 As others have stated, running the V281 single ended does not really show what you have bought. I'd recommend converting the AKGs to balanced - they really come to life with V281 balanced, however the conversion is somewhat more involved than with other headphones. Or just get different headphones that are more "balanced-friendly".
  
 Don't worry about burning in only one part of the amp - it really only matters that the components are powered and output load will not matter that much. If you're not convinced then alternate between the two SE outputs every few hours.


----------



## mulder01

chrisisawesome said:


> This is what i hear. It's not transparent like the wa22 was, instead much smoother.
> 
> Mulder, i got it on sale for a lot less than the v220 retail
> 
> ...


 
  
 AFAIK, it was mentioned earlier in this thread and explained by Fried somewhere along the line, it goes something like this:
  
 The balanced input is for noise rejection (it's intended purpose) so when the balanced signal enters the amp, it is converted to a clean single ended signal.  It then goes through some other electronics in the amp like volume knob etc (yes very technical terms I know - anyone feel free to correct me if this is wrong) and then it sends that signal to two of the amps and sends an inverted signal to the other two amps and there is your balanced output.  If you used single ended in, you just skip that noise rejection bit at the start, but get the same balanced output (possibly with some noise - if you run your interconnect from your AK it's whole length in parallel with a power cable for some reason 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 I think there are some amps like the Mjolnir? that don't actually do the noise rejection bit at the start, but rather amplify the noisy signal and an inverted noisy signal so that the noise is cancelled out at your headphones?  I think?  For some reason that method has earned the name "true balanced" here on head fi which makes it sound more impressive but the advantages of doing things that way are questionable IMO.
  
 If anyone wants to explain that better than I just did, feel free...


----------



## S Crowther

chrisisawesome said:


> I got my v281 two days ago, does anyone else find it to have reduced highs/peaks. To me the music sounds almost smoothed out.
> 
> Its good in the sense that it doesn't cause fatigue, I've listened to it for a whole day straight. But it feels as if the music is missing something, there are no peaks or harsh sounds that should sometimes be present in music such as heavy metal with bright distorted electric guitar.
> 
> I'm not the best at audiophile terms but this is what i hear and it's been bothering me quite a bit since i really love every other aspect of the amp.




Have you tried using the gain setting switches on the back of the v281 set at +6 or +12? It may be the input signal from your AK is too low. You may get reduced highs/peaks if the volume control on the v281 has to be set much beyond 12 O'clock.


----------



## manpowre

s crowther said:


> Have you tried using the gain setting switches on the back of the v281 set at +6 or +12? It may be the input signal from your AK is too low. You may get reduced highs/peaks if the volume control on the v281 has to be set much beyond 12 O'clock.


 
 Im really glad you pointed this out, with higher impedance headphones 200+ impedance, you need to change the gain setting to +6 or even +12 on the back of the V281.
 Also, using jackplug only half of the amplifier is being used, so xlr4 is necessary too.
  
 The manual of V281 points out warmer sound if the volume knob is turned too high. On my LCD4 I use +6 gain, and it stays at 11 o clock. This is where I feel I can listen max comfortable with foobar and pc volume on max. This is where I feel the LCD4 opens up at most.


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Thanks for the explanation Mulder.
  
 I played around with the gain switches a little, +6 seems to be the best option and helped a bit.
 I'm sure its a characteristic of the amp itself which doesn't need changing, It just doesn't suit my preference for something completely neutral transparent.
  
 This hobby is like chasing the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.


----------



## emptymt

I search a bit in the thread bout people using hugo as DAC, I only have the mojo, is it a good idea to use it as the DAC? or do I need to upgrade the DAC also?
  
 I'm planning to upgrade my setup into the desktop one, atm I'm using chord mojo to power mrspeakers ether, however since the ether is so efficient already I'm not sure about its scalability with a very powerful amp such as the v281, will the sound upgrade worth the money?
  
 I basically want a significant upgrade in every area as possible, but the main are that needs upgrade from the mojo setup IMO is the dynamic and soundstage.
  
 there is a sale going on here in melbourne, and again I got hooked like a fish.


----------



## manpowre

emptymt said:


> I search a bit in the thread bout people using hugo as DAC, I only have the mojo, is it a good idea to use it as the DAC? or do I need to upgrade the DAC also?
> 
> I'm planning to upgrade my setup into the desktop one, atm I'm using chord mojo to power mrspeakers ether, however since the ether is so efficient already I'm not sure about its scalability with a very powerful amp such as the v281, will the sound upgrade worth the money?
> 
> ...


 
 The Mojo is not a good dac to feed the v281. it doesnt have xlr3 out. The different DAC's have so different sound signature, so you should review different ones. I landed at Schiit Yggdrasil, but I reviewed Hegel HD25, HD30, Oppo HA-1 dac and amp. Alot of high end sales shops let you borrow a unit for home listening for a weekend.


----------



## emptymt

manpowre said:


> The Mojo is not a good dac to feed the v281. it doesnt have xlr3 out. The different DAC's have so different sound signature, so you should review different ones. I landed at Schiit Yggdrasil, but I reviewed Hegel HD25, HD30, Oppo HA-1 dac and amp. Alot of high end sales shops let you borrow a unit for home listening for a weekend.


 
 ooo, so I can't use the mojo with it?
  
 hmm in that case what is the best option for the v281, I'm a little interested with the gungnir multibit to pair with the v281.
  
 final set-up will be
  
 pc -> GMB -> v281 -> ETHER


----------



## TokenGesture

I have the Pioneer Master 1 and am thinking about going balanced. Would this be a good match with the Vio?  Any owners able to comment? Dac would be the Metrum Menuet (balanced out)


----------



## S Crowther

I think you can use the Mojo with the V281. You just connect them using RCA cables instead of XLR.
I have the Hugo TT (which has XLR output) and the V281. I have tried connecting them with both XLR and RCA cables and there is very little if any difference. It depends on the relative quality of the cables.


----------



## Wurstteppich

manpowre said:


> I landed at Schiit Yggdrasil, but I reviewed Hegel HD25, HD30, Oppo HA-1 dac and amp.


 
  
 I am using the V850 DAC at the moment.
  
 What are your conclusions for the other DACs you tested with the V281? Pros and cons. I am just curious.


----------



## sandalaudio

emptymt said:


> ooo, so I can't use the mojo with it?
> 
> hmm in that case what is the best option for the v281, I'm a little interested with the gungnir multibit to pair with the v281.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mojo would work fine with V281, provided that you ensure that you have set the mojo to line level voltage (e.g. +4 dBu) and don't crank it up.
  
 Mojo does have a "line out" mode by pressing the button combination on startup, but one annoying thing about Chord is that their "line out" voltage is 3Vrms (+11.7dBu), which is quite high compared to other brands, and may make the V281 volume knob feel too sensitive, so you might want to set the rear input gain switch down a bit.
  
 V281 can handle up to +21dBu, so it is one of the most tolerant amps out there for input voltage, but you should still be careful not to accidentally crank up the Mojo and overload the V281 input circuit. Other headphone amps are not as tolerant as V281, so I've seen a few Hugo/Mojo users unknowingly clipping the input stage of some headphone amps, making the amp distort and sound "hot".
  
 Anyhow Mojo doesn't have a dedicated high impedance (e.g. 100 ohm) line output per se, and the 3.5mm jack is not be the best thing around for the sake of crosstalk.
 If you have limited budget then I'm sure Mojo will serve well for the time being, but you might eventually want to buy a good dedicated line level DAC. Chord also makes 2Qute for that purpose.


----------



## emptymt

s crowther said:


> I think you can use the Mojo with the V281. You just connect them using RCA cables instead of XLR.
> I have the Hugo TT (which has XLR output) and the V281. I have tried connecting them with both XLR and RCA cables and there is very little if any difference. It depends on the relative quality of the cables.


 
 Could you kindly explain what the differences in?
  


sandalaudio said:


> Mojo would work fine with V281, provided that you ensure that you have set the mojo to line level voltage (e.g. +4 dBu) and don't crank it up.
> 
> Mojo does have a "line out" mode by pressing the button combination on startup, but one annoying thing about Chord is that their "line out" voltage is 3Vrms (+11.7dBu), which is quite high compared to other brands, and may make the V281 volume knob feel too sensitive, so you might want to set the rear input gain switch down a bit.
> 
> ...


 
 I have a plan to buy a desktop DAC, however if I do I'd rather save up and buy the best possible, so while I save up I was planning to use the mojo as DAC as it is certainly better than the optional DAC that Violectric has.
  
 so I just connect using those cable from the headphone out of the mojo to it right?


----------



## S Crowther

Emptymp>I believe so, but as I said I do not have the Mojo.I have a cable with at one end a headphone jack and the other with RCA cables so they certainly exist. I used to use it to connect my AK240 to the V281.


----------



## sandalaudio

emptymt said:


> Could you kindly explain what the differences in?
> 
> I have a plan to buy a desktop DAC, however if I do I'd rather save up and buy the best possible, so while I save up I was planning to use the mojo as DAC as it is certainly better than the optional DAC that Violectric has.
> 
> so I just connect using those cable from the headphone out of the mojo to it right?


 
  
 Yeah you just need to switch on the Mojo in "line out" mode (hold both volume buttons while turning it on) to ensure it is 3Vrms.
 You need a 3.5mm stereo to RCA cable to connect it to V281's line input.
  
 It's worth trying some decent quality cables to see if it makes any difference, but there's no point going crazy if you think Mojo is only a temporary solution.
  
 If you end up buying a DAC that has balanced XLR line output (most expensive ones do), then XLR is better than RCA since it carries higher voltage (more signal over noise) and resistant to common mode noise (like hum from interference) so it's particularly beneficial for longer lengths (like 5-10m).
  
 I tend to find that even with shorter (< 2m) cables, XLR cables cause less influence to the sound, while RCA cables tend to be more varied depending on what cable I use.  For V281, both RCA and XLR gets converted to single ended internally, so you don't have to be too picky about it, unlike some other amps where RCA and XLR takes totally different paths internally.


----------



## xxx1313

manpowre said:


> The Mojo is not a good dac to feed the v281. it doesnt have xlr3 out. The different DAC's have so different sound signature, so you should review different ones. I landed at Schiit Yggdrasil, but I reviewed Hegel HD25, HD30, Oppo HA-1 dac and amp. Alot of high end sales shops let you borrow a unit for home listening for a weekend.


 

 ​@manpowre
 Curious too about your impressions with those different DACs in combination with the V281. What does the Yggy better than the HD30 for example?
  
 Did anybody have the chance to audition the V281 with the Metrum Pavane?
 I have an Auralic Vega, a very good DAC too, also combined with the V281. But the more I listen to the Vega, the less I like its treble sparkle.


----------



## xxx1313

tokengesture said:


> I have the Pioneer Master 1 and am thinking about going balanced. Would this be a good match with the Vio?  Any owners able to comment? Dac would be the Metrum Menuet (balanced out)


 
  
  
 I have the Vio V281 and had the Master 1 about two hours here to audition (DAC: Auralic Vega). I did not really like the price/value ratio of the Master 1, but it was a spectacular combination with the V281, in my opinion. Not really neutral (the Master 1 never is), much ooomph in the low frequencies, also good quality there. Quite good soundstaging, very realistic placement of voices in instruments. I listened to the Master 1 once again a few months later at the "High End" in Munich, and it did not impress me at all there.


----------



## TonyNewman

> I have an Auralic Vega, a very good DAC too, also combined with the V281. But the more I listen to the Vega, the less I like its treble sparkle.


 
  
 +1. After a while I found the "glassy" and sometimes "steely" treble of the Vega to be fatiguing, even with the V281 or a 300B tube amp. Then I went to a Hegel HD30 DAC - a very strong DAC technically, but lacking in any warmth or musicality for me. There is a hard edge to the sound that I also find fatiguing. Next step is the M1 Bricasti. Hopefully that will end my search for a non-fatiguing DAC.


----------



## mulder01

You can definitely use the mojo. Especially if it's only temporary - heck, you could use the headphone out of an ipod with the volume turned right up if you were all out of options. No reason why it wouldn't work for now even if it's not the ideal endgame solution.


----------



## xxx1313

tonynewman said:


> +1. After a while I found the "glassy" and sometimes "steely" treble of the Vega to be fatiguing, even with the V281 or a 300B tube amp. Then I went to a Hegel HD30 DAC - a very strong DAC technically, but lacking in any warmth or musicality for me. There is a hard edge to the sound that I also find fatiguing. Next step is the M1 Bricasti. Hopefully that will end my search for a non-fatiguing DAC.


 
  
  
 The Bricasti M1 is definitely one of the best DACs available, but it is too expensive for me, to be honest. Next week I will go to a hifi dealer 400 km away in order to listen to a Metrum Pavane. Then I will decide if I will upgrade once again (hopefully the end of my search, too) or downsize to an AK380 with external amp instead (it is not much worse than my desktop setup).


----------



## TonyNewman

xxx1313 said:


> The Bricasti M1 is definitely one of the best DACs available, but it is too expensive for me, to be honest. Next week I will go to a hifi dealer 400 km away in order to listen to a Metrum Pavane. Then I will decide if I will upgrade once again (hopefully the end of my search, too) or downsize to an AK380 with external amp instead (it is not much worse than my desktop setup).


 
  
 Too expensive for me too. I _*should *_have used the cash to replace my rubbish 2001 car, but ended up buying a DAC instead as the HD30 did not work out for me.
  
 This hobby is nuts and so am I for blowing so much cash on a freaken DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I did a bunch of research before settling on the Bricasti. Some of this might be helpful to other V281 owners.
  
 Living at the end of civilization I rarely get the change to try high end gear before committing to a purchase, so it is mostly semi-educated guesswork. Sometimes I get it right (V281) and sometimes I get it very wrong (HD30, 430HA).
  
 At the Bricasti price bracket there are a bunch of great options - best I can gather the balance between warmth/musicality and detail/dynamics goes something like this (from warmest/smoothest to most detailed/digital):
 1) MSB Analog
 2) Meitner MA-1
 3) Bricasti M1
 4) Berkeley Audio DAC 2
  
 I am looking for a detailed + technically proficient DAC with a touch of warmth / musicality - so the Bricasti is what I went for. Thought long and hard about the Meitner / MSB options.


----------



## xxx1313

@TonyNewman
  
 Thanks for your opinion, quite helpful!


----------



## TonyNewman

Once I have the Bricasti run in and working as best I can get it to work (filter settings ... etc) I will report back on the results with the V281.
  
 I am expecting great things, but I have been wrong before.


----------



## xxx1313

Wisdom comes with time - and sometimes only after a long trial an error process, as most of us know  Your report is highly appreciated!


----------



## sandalaudio

With all these DAC talk, I hope Violectric is watching the thread and working hard on some new high quality USB DAC product.
  
 It seems like a lot of people have their mind set on V281 (like me), but wandering around to find a DAC that's worthy of connecting to it.
  
 V850 is great, but a lot has moved on in the DAC products over the last couple of years, and it certainly needs a good update.
 For example I have too many DSD albums so native DSD256 support became a must-have. Other people would have other wishes.
  
 Also for some people the V850 is a bit of an overkill (since majority of the cost is the hefty metal chassis and the power supply).
 An updated onboard DAC card for V281 would be great.
  
 For example, I recently tried a Simaudio MOON 430HAD headphone amp, which has a similar tiny onboard DAC card as an optional addition, and that sounded pretty good to me, that I felt no need to buy an external DAC.


----------



## 13713

I don't see DSD being a part of a Violectric product unless they change their minds. Fried has made comments on how he feels about DSD.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## emptymt

socks mk2 said:


> DSD itself is irrelevant. The only appeal of DSD is that nobody is going release something in that format without it being mixed/mastered very well. At least those are my thoughts on the matter. If the exact same track was released in both DSD and HQ PCM wav formats, I don't think anyone would care.


 
 +1 on this,
  
 I myself don't really care bout the format as long as the mastering is good, and is enjoyable through the gear I use. I think 16 bit & 24 bit is good enough for music enjoyment.
  
 btw man, how's your opinion about the v281 & ether combo?


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## emptymt

socks mk2 said:


> I have the _now discontinued_ V181. Not made the leap to a V280 or V281 as of yet. My understanding is that the V181 is less warm than a V200 and more transparent than a V100. V280 or 281 (balanced) _should be_ a clear upgrade to my V181 though; particularly due to the PSU and more premium components.
> 
> That said, I do think highly of the pairing with my Ether Open. Very balanced and coherent. Nothing really stands out or comes across as glaring. e.g. no grating treble, rolled off highs, sibilance, over/underwhelming bass, recessed mids, vocals that are too forward, etc.
> 
> It doesn't leave me yearning for more. If I hear the V280 or V281 myself, maybe my mind would change after the fact. Jump start the upgraditis itch. Lol.


 
 yeah man, I feel that my current set-up is fine as it is, however I feel that with the mojo although the sound quality is very good, I'm itching for upgrades mainly in the soundstage, dynamic, and bass impact, although upgrades in the other area is desirable too.
  
 v281 seems like it will fix my need for soundstage, dynamic upgrade and also the bass impact.


----------



## sandalaudio

socks mk2 said:


> DSD itself is irrelevant. The only appeal of DSD is that nobody is going release something in that format without it being mixed/mastered very well. At least those are my thoughts on the matter. If the exact same track was released in both DSD and HQ PCM wav formats, I don't think anyone would care.


 
  
 The situation with DSD is important for jazz and classical listeners. There is not much merit of justifying DSD in the modern recordings, but it's been used for analogue tape transfers extensively over the past decade (I have around 400 albums). There are so many great classical and jazz recordings mastered/transferred onto DSD exclusively that deserves good native playback, until somebody decides to do a decent PCM transfer in the future (unlikely).
  
 Whatever the preferences of the DAC designer, I don't want to pick and choose what albums I listen to based on the format. 
  


emptymt said:


> yeah man, I feel that my current set-up is fine as it is, however I feel that with the mojo although the sound quality is very good, I'm itching for upgrades mainly in the soundstage, dynamic, and bass impact, although upgrades in the other area is desirable too.
> 
> v281 seems like it will fix my need for soundstage, dynamic upgrade and also the bass impact.


 
  
 I think DACs are the sort of product that are constantly improving year after year (and lose value just as fast too, because too many new models keep coming out), while a good solid powerful reliable headphone amp like the V281 lasts for years and years without losing its appeal. 
  
 It's funny to think that it's not that long ago that people were using isochronous USB Class 1 DACs with horrible sonic artifacts and dropouts. (and they were saying that FLAC is just a hype and a waste of hard drive space, while the MP3 is a much more sensible choice...). Those days are long gone, but I still have my Lehmann BCL headphone amp from back then, that's still sounding amazing and rock solid as ever (it's left turned on 24/7).
  
 I think the V281 is that kind of amp, which will give me enjoyment for decades to come, just like my Lehmann continues to do so.


----------



## phonomat

tokengesture said:


> I have the Pioneer Master 1 and am thinking about going balanced. Would this be a good match with the Vio?  Any owners able to comment? Dac would be the Metrum Menuet (balanced out)


 
  
 The V281 + Master1 (or Vio-Pio, as I jokingly call it) is my main setup (with Hugo as DAC), and it's spectacular! However, I couldn't yet bring myself to buy the balanced cable, so I'm running SE at the moment. People seem to agree that the sound becomes more neutral and the soundstage widens in balanced mode, but I actually like a bit of warmth to my sound, so I'm kind of afraid to lose that. I'm a sucker for soundstage though, so sooner rather than later I think curiosity will get the better of me. I'm so pleased with the combo that this is actually the only option I can imagine, upgrade-wise.
  


sandalaudio said:


> With all these DAC talk, I hope Violectric is watching the thread and working hard on some new high quality USB DAC product.
> 
> It seems like a lot of people have their mind set on V281 (like me), but wandering around to find a DAC that's worthy of connecting to it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Aren't you thinking of the V800 by chance? The V850 actually _is_ the update that came out last year. DSD won't happen with Violectric.
  
 Edit: It's true though that the Violectric DACs have never gotten the same amount of love as their amps.


----------



## manpowre

xxx1313 said:


> ​@manpowre
> Curious too about your impressions with those different DACs in combination with the V281. What does the Yggy better than the HD30 for example?
> 
> Did anybody have the chance to audition the V281 with the Metrum Pavane?
> I have an Auralic Vega, a very good DAC too, also combined with the V281. But the more I listen to the Vega, the less I like its treble sparkle.


 
 Hey, sorry I didnt read this until now, Ive been hiking since monday literally.. lost 3 kilos too!!
  
 The HD30 is very very crisp. It reveals the songs to a level where its just not musical anymore and it attacks the instruments very hard. Its more detailed than the Yggdrasil. Also it has a very dark background. silent is really silent.. I didnt test the streamer part, only USB. I also tested HD25 (owned it) 2 times different units. What I found across all the 3 Hegel DACs was that Hegel has an issue with USB inputs. The HD25s both had issue with just moving the usb cable slightly and the driver would drop out of windows, and not come back until I plugged it into a usb port. I believe handshake isnt done correctly on hegel side. the DACs do have galvanized inputs, so using purifier or Intona usb isolator isnt needed and users also reported issues with purifier, and the Intona doesnt work either.
  
 Of HD25 and HD30 I found HD25 to be more a good fit for headfi listening. It is just more musical, it doesnt attack the instruments so hard, but still revealing and great soundstage. I would have kept the HD25 if it wasnt for the issue with USB input.
  
 We have some great prices for Hegel products here in Norway, as they import them from the factory at build cost, add its revenue and sell them to local stores without being taxed to death and reduced shipping cost aswell. So HD30 for me wouldnt be more than 3700 dollars. But the HD30 had the same issue with USB driver dropping out even though it wasnt as sensitive to moving the cable.
  
 I did actually consider to invest in a good pre-amp to reduce the attack part and the crispiness. I listened to 1 hour and I got tired of listening. That told me, HD30 was wrong for me.
  
 So I reviewed a Yggdrasil, and found it much better for headfi listening with my LCD4 and V281.. Just a perfect match really.. Now I dont even think of the gear, just listen a few hours every evening when I get home. And its awesome. Yggdrasil is a keeper for sure, and it just tells me that V281 is very flexible when it comes to DAC choice. It amplifies the true nature of the dac. 
  
 I also heard vega users I know personally complained about treble sparcle. That is also what I experience with Oppo HA-1 feeding the V281 directly from pre-out. More or less the same as the oppo analogue part itself. So it must be the DAC. I have connected the Yggdrasil to Oppo, and it does a good job amplifying, but the 3d perspective isnt really there, and the soundstage is somehow compressed with the Oppo compared to V281 as amp.


----------



## TonyNewman

As a former Vega owner, and a current HD30 owner, I agree with everything stated above. Absolutely spot on regarding the HD30 sound signature and the Vega treble.
  
 HD30 works for driving floor standers, but the more intimate listening experience of headphones requires something warmer / smoother and without that aggressive attack. Fatigue sets in within about 20 or 30 minutes with the HD30 and I don't want to listen anymore. This is a pity, as the HD30 is technically stunning, just not a match for headphone listening IMHO.
  
 I thought about the Yggy quite a bit as an alternate DAC, but I wanted to be 100% sure of getting something that combined uber technical prowess with enough smoothness and musicality for headphone listening, and that led me to the Bricasti / Meitner / MSB Analog choice. Went with Bricasti, but any of those 3 would probably float my boat.


----------



## sandalaudio

phonomat said:


> Aren't you thinking of the V800 by chance? The V850 actually _is_ the update that came out last year. DSD won't happen with Violectric.
> 
> Edit: It's true though that the Violectric DACs have never gotten the same amount of love as their amps.


 
  
 Hey! 2015 is sooo last year, man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Sorry, I didn't realize that V850 was so new.. Since I had seen V800 in the shops for a while, I thought that was the V850. The only time I listened to the V850 was when I did a demo to buy the V281.
  
 Anyhow it looked like a lot of people are hunting around for a good DAC, so I just thought this is where Violectric could pay more attention to and expand on, considering that V281 is already so amazing.


----------



## leftside

tonynewman said:


> +1. After a while I found the "glassy" and sometimes "steely" treble of the Vega to be fatiguing, even with the V281 or a 300B tube amp. Then I went to a Hegel HD30 DAC - a very strong DAC technically, but lacking in any warmth or musicality for me. There is a hard edge to the sound that I also find fatiguing. Next step is the M1 Bricasti. Hopefully that will end my search for a non-fatiguing DAC.


 
 Maybe you need to forget DACs and get a turntable


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> Maybe you need to forget DACs and get a turntable


 
  
 It is kinda weird - the amount of cash audiophiles can throw at DACs chasing an analog type of sound.
  
 Thought about it. The crackles and pops don't really work with headphones for me and I like the convenience of digital source files.  My problem was in poor choice of DAC to upgrade to after the Vega.


----------



## leftside

I know what you mean in regard to the convenience of digital files. I listen to digital more than I do vinyl.
  
 On a clean piece of vinyl, the cracks and pops can only really be heard at the beginning of the LP.


----------



## Wurstteppich

manpowre said:


> That is also what I experience with Oppo HA-1 feeding the V281 directly from pre-out. More or less the same as the oppo analogue part itself. So it must be the DAC. I have connected the Yggdrasil to Oppo, and it does a good job amplifying, but the 3d perspective isnt really there, and the soundstage is somehow compressed with the Oppo compared to V281 as amp.


 
  
 Since I also have the Oppo HA-1 and the Violectric V281, I tried to connect them and came to the same conclusion. The HA-1 is a perfect match for darker headphones, which miss some treble. It's made for the PM-1, which is really a great match with the HA-1 (suprise...). I tried other headphones from my collection with the HA-1, but some of them just don't pair up with that amp, so I just use it for the PM-1 and to drive my Canton AM5 active speakers, which can be adjusted (switches for treble, mids and bass). Pairing it with my HD800s is OK, but the K812 simply doesn't work with it for example. The K812 however is a very good match with the V281.
  
 I also tried to connect the Pioneer U-05 (which I use to listen to the Pioneer Master 1 balanced) as a DAC to the V281, however in my opinion this combo didn't match either.
  
 So I stopped the experiments lately and simply use the V281 with the V850. In my opinion the V850 adds some warmth to the music, which fits very well with most of my headphones, since they are not really dark sounding (HD800s, K812, T1 or Ether C). However it also works very well with the Master 1.
  
 I didn't try the mobile options (ifi iDSD or Mojo) yet, but I didn't feel the need to try them out, since they are battery driven and not a permanent option in my opinion.
  
 It would't be interesting to check out on the Yggy (which many people seem to like as a DAC), but I didn't the urge up till now, since form factor and color doesn't match very well in my living room and to each other. I know...silly reason and probably the last one to be considered when checking up on rigs, but this one does a fine job keeping me from spending even more money  Right now the most interesting thing I wan't to check up on is maybe to feed the V281 with a AK320 or AK380, which would replace the need for extra mobile amps like the iDSD and Mojo for me. xxx1313 did a fine job talking me into that, so thanks


----------



## Wurstteppich

phonomat said:


> However, I couldn't yet bring myself to buy the balanced cable, so I'm running SE at the moment.


 
  
 I can borrow the balanced cable for the Pioneer Master 1 to you as I remember you are living somewhere near the Essen area? However it's the one from Pioneer, which has two 3-pin connectors.


----------



## thecrow

xxx1313 said:


> The Bricasti M1 is definitely one of the best DACs available, but it is too expensive for me, to be honest. Next week I will go to a hifi dealer 400 km away in order to listen to a Metrum Pavane. Then I will decide if I will upgrade once again (hopefully the end of my search, too) or downsize to an AK380 with external amp instead (it is not much worse than my desktop setup).


Perhaps have a look at the recently discontinued metrum hex if the pavane dealer still has it. 

The hex might work in a bang for buck way if the pavane is too much $

My hex has definitely a natural feel with detailed but not sharp upper end.

 Having said that i have not heard any other dacs at a higher price point to compare


----------



## ken6217

tonynewman said:


> Gotta agree 100% with this statement. The HD30 works quite fine with floor standers, but in the more intimate world of HeadFi the sound has a hard leading edge that becomes fatiguing and irritating fairly quickly. A rushed purchasing decision that I have come to regret.
> 
> The interesting thing is that the V281 does a better job of smoothing out the hard leading edge than my Glenn 300B tube amp - so the 300B amp is more transparent in this case - so the V281 is definitely doing something with those harsh sounds (something good, in this case).
> 
> I have stretched my audio budget way beyond the pain barrier and am replacing the HD30 with a Bricasti M1. Anyone tried the Bricasti + V281 combination?




How about PS Audio DirectStream. Great DAC and not bright or harsh. You can get used for about 50% off retail.


----------



## TokenGesture

If the dealer has a Menuet compare that to the Pavanne.


----------



## TonyNewman

ken6217 said:


> How about PS Audio DirectStream. Great DAC and not bright or harsh. You can get used for about 50% off retail.


 
  
 I am already committed to the Bricasti.


----------



## project86

The Bricasti is very nice - better than DirectStream imho, which itself is very good but not the world-beater some make it out to be. The DS is a bit steep at full MSRP but as mentioned it can be found for significant discounts.
  
 I just got my Resonessence Labs Invicta Mirus back. It has been updated to the new ES9028Pro DACs (2 of them in the Mirus) so is now called the Invicta Mirus Pro. Looking forward to spending some quality time with it, driving my V281 as well as a Pass Labs HPA-1 and KGSShv. 
  
 Bottom line, there are many excellent DACs to choose from once your budget grows large enough. But there are also many which cost way more than they should, so be careful.


----------



## TonyNewman

This being my 3rd try at an "end game" DAC I wanted to be sure of not chucking more cash at something that doesn't work for me. Keep in mind I live in a remote location and the chance to try before I buy is minimal to non-existent. 
  
 Thought about the Yggy, but it feels "over-hyped" to me (Yggy owners - please don't take offence, this is just my impression) - so I stretched my budget to the BADA2 / Bricasti M1 / Meitner MA-1 / MSB Analog level. I think either Bricasti or Meitner would be a great fit for me. There is a local dealer for Bricasti here in Auckland, so that sealed the deal.


----------



## gonzfi

With my v281 I have tried Chord Hugo, NAD m51 and v850. I borrowed a Chord Hugo TT for a weekend as well. The v850 won hands down. It offers clarity plus a hint of warmth and is never too clinical or boring. Paired with the v281 it's end game for me. T1 v2 with a balanced cable is seriously good through this combo.


----------



## xxx1313

thecrow said:


> Perhaps have a look at the recently discontinued metrum hex if the pavane dealer still has it.
> 
> The hex might work in a bang for buck way if the pavane is too much $
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks for your tips. I fear the Hex is only a side-grade from the Vega. But let's see which DACs are available there. I will report.


----------



## JeffMann

xxx1313 said:


> Thanks for your tips. I fear the Hex is only a side-grade from the Vega. But let's see which DACs are available there. I will report.


 

 I would strongly recommend auditioning an Anedio D2 DAC (which I own) if you live in the USA. Anedio offers an audition time period of a few weeks for $49, which is refundable if one purchases the DAC. It may not be an end-game DAC, but I suspect that it is still very close in sound quality to end-game DAC's (which are ultra-expensive). I was originally going to purchase a PS Audio Perfect Stream DAC to pair with my PS Audio Memory Player, but I lost interest in that idea when I discovered how good the Anedio D2 DAC is when paired with the V281. 
  
 Jeff.


----------



## xxx1313

@JeffMann
  
 ​Thanks for your tip, but I live in Austria/Europe. The audition of the Metrum Pavane will decide if another upgrade will be worth it for me (I am quite sure that I will like its sound signature). If the sound difference is only small, an AK380 + AK380 amp will probable replace my desktop DAC (and maybe the V281 too, some time in the future). Then I would also test AK380 => Cradle => XLR out => V281 vs. AK380 => AK380 amp. I will get my AK380 in September (now I will feed the Pavane with my AK240), but I wanted to know before, if there is enough headroom soundwise to justify a DAC-upgrade.


----------



## TokenGesture

Looks like I will be rejoining the Vio club with the V280 shortly!


----------



## Fegefeuer

nice, make sure to post your impressions in the V280 thread.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

How well does the Sennheiser HD 800 S pair with the V281?
  
 [I've had two pair of the original HD 800 but never tried either with V281. I did a search, also within this thread, but would appreciate updates and/or new input -- thanks!]


----------



## 4Point

Hi all
  
 Just plowed through this long thread. I am interested in getting a complete headphone setup as a "replacement" for my Naim/Neat stereo setup. I just find myself listening to music much more while sitting at my PC desk so it would make sense to invest more into headphone gear.
  
 So I am basically almost starting from scratch. I have a Hegel USB/DAC and a DT770 Pro so practically anything I get will be better than this.
  
 Sadly it's a confusing experience reading forums and filtering out good information. I've spent this whole week doing this.  One product could get all the hype in one thread and then the next thread it's the worst ever. It's really annoying and makes it very difficult for head-fi newcomers like me.
  
 Anyway...I'm sorry for the whining. 
  
 The reason I am here is that I am interested in Violectric, but of course I am still on the fence due to conflicting opinions. I do have a positive impression of Violectric regardless. Their products look solidly built with a no nonsense approach.
  
 I have a couple of options.
  
 1. V281 with USB DAC and get the V850 later
 2. V200 + V850
  
 I have an AKG 7XX on the way from massdrop. This is more meant as a temporary headset and maybe getting a HD800S. HE-400i also looks interesting.
  
 I am open to any suggestions and advice for both electronics and headphones. It's getting quite boring sitting on the fence so I would be very grateful if someone could push me over.


----------



## Wurstteppich

Hi,
  
 I use the V281 + V850 combo with the HD800S and it's a perfect match, however I use the balanced cable coming with the HD800S, didn't try SE yet (and don't see any reason to try it at the moment). Actually that combo is a perfect match for most headphones I own, except for the TH900 maybe, where the bass can be too powerful for some music.


----------



## project86

4point said:


> Hi all
> 
> Just plowed through this long thread. I am interested in getting a complete headphone setup as a "replacement" for my Naim/Neat stereo setup. I just find myself listening to music much more while sitting at my PC desk so it would make sense to invest more into headphone gear.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I'd say focus on your headphone search first and foremost. The new amp/DAC part is important but nowhere near as much as the difference made from finding the right headphone. 
  
 Also have you considered the other Violectric models? Not that I would talk anyone out of the wonderful V281, but there's also the V280 for $650 less. That's a significant difference and depending on which headphone you settle on the V280 might be plenty for your needs.
  
 The integrated DAC options are certainly good if not great. For $300 the XMOS version is very competitive with what you'd get spending similar money on a CD player (think NAD, Cambridge, and Marantz in the sub-$500 class). That said, it isn't on the same level as the amp and will definitely hold you back.
  
 Personally I might be inclined to go V280 plus a high bang-for-buck DAC such as the Grace m9XX or Resonessence Labs Concero. I'd look at used as well, those can sometimes be had for not much more than the $300 Violectric DAC add-on price.


----------



## 4Point

Thanks for the advice Wurstteppich, Project86.
  
 It's good to know that the Violectric combo can be a good fit for other headphones.
  
 Regarding the 280, I feel that it's not that far up to the 281. I have some active monitors so it would be good to use it as a pre amp as well but mostly I like the big volume knob.... 
  
 I'll probably use the integrated DAC as a to begin with. It's hard to part with this amount of money all at once. It's easier step by step...haha
  
 My plan is to get to know the setup and then upgrade the DAC. Then I also have something to look forward to. I'll look into those DACs you've mentioned. I live in a smaller country so there is almost no used marked. It's very hard to find good equipment.
  
 At the moment the headphones I'm looking at are HD800S, Master 1, HE-400i/560 or Ether.


----------



## TokenGesture

I have the Master 1 and am looking at the V280!


----------



## Mist3rLao

I currently have the following setup: V850 -> V281 (0 pre-gain) -> HEK. 

To get an average SPL of around 85dB, give or take, my volume knob is between 10am-11am for most songs. 

Is this how it usually is?


----------



## Khragon

Joined the V281 club about a week ago... really enjoy the warmish signature of this amp, matched very well with HD800S, very musical.


----------



## 13713

mist3rlao said:


> I currently have the following setup: V850 -> V281 (0 pre-gain) -> HEK.
> 
> This is how it is for me.
> To get an average SPL of around 85dB, give or take, my volume knob is between 10am-11am for most songs.
> ...


----------



## supabayes

Folks,
  
 My setup right now: Yggdrasil > Ragnarok(balanced in) & V181 (unbalanced in)  > HEK balanced & HD800S balanced and KEF LS50 speakers. I am fairly happy with the set up except for the need to get up and adjust volume on the Ragnarok for speaker listening. 
  
 So I am thinking about upgrading V181 to V281. Part of my motivation to get V281 is to add the motorised remote option, so that the V281 can double as a preamp with remote volume control for the XLR feed to Ragnarok. Before I order the V281, my reasons are:
  
 1. More power (based on manual spec) and improved sound qualities (?) This may have been asked before and I have read some elsewhere for V181 compared to V200. I am not sure what to expect - larger soundstage, layering, timbre, speed? I know that with the Violectric house sound, there are more similarity than difference between the V281 and V181 in balanced mode. I will expect V281 to punchy for its bass, more musical and slightly warm like V181 compared to the Ragnarok.
  
 I use my Ragnarok more for listening with the LS50 rather than headphones listening and V181 for headphones because I like the warmth and more musical presentation for Jazz music that I listen more to. The only time I prefer Ragnarok to V181 is classical music, for the more neutral presentation with a larger soundstage.
  
 2. Remote pre-amp for speaker listening using the Ragnarok. This will make listening really more enjoyable, not having to get off the chair to adjust the volume when my wife talks to me from across the room. Just curious, will the pre-amp XLR out from V281 carry some of the Violectric warmth to the Ragnarok?
  
 I am open to comments from V281 owners/reviewers who have compared V181 and V281. Also if you have any suggestion for good XLR cables to use with V281 to the Yggy/Ragnarok. I am currently using Schiit PYST XLR and DH Lab unbalanced RCA cables.
  
 Thanks


----------



## PleasantSounds

I use the V281 as a preamp for active monitors, and it does add some flavour to the sound, compared to Lynx Hilo for example. 
 The difference is quite subtle but to me subjectively it makes the sound more enjoyable.


----------



## musicbuff

Violectric sells XLR cables and to my ears they are very Very good.  Got mine free over the Christmas holiday when they were offering a discount for the V281. Looks like they've got a summer discount sale going on now.  Check it out at
  
 https://violectric-usa.com/


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## sahmen

I have a question which may have been addressed previously, but I cannot wade through the entire thread looking for an answer, so kindly bear with me. When purchasing the V281, you are offered 3 volume control options: standard, remote control, and relay with remote control (the most expensive one)... What exactly does the feature "relay with remote control" do, and how useful is that function? I figure it must be quite important to cost as much as it does.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## sahmen

socks mk2 said:


> Most expensive option is in 1 dB steps.


 
 Okay, thanks, but I do not exactly follow...My expertise in audio lingo is not among the sharpest I know, so could you kindly elaborate a little more?  Are you saying the "relay with remote control" allows a more refined control of the volume?


----------



## 13713

sahmen said:


> Okay, thanks, but I do not exactly follow...My expertise in audio lingo is not among the sharpest I know, so could you kindly elaborate a little more?  Are you saying the "relay with remote control" allows a more refined control of the volume?




Yes. It is an option to have more direct smaller changes.


----------



## project86

The relay option means you have a relay-based system with 128 steps, each .75dB apart from the previous step. So it's easy to dial in the exact same level every time. It also sounds ever so slightly better imho, since it has less "stuff" in the signal path compared to the regular potentiometer. 
  
 The standard and motorized options both use a very nice Alps RK27 pot and it works very well. The upgrade is for us crazy folks who want that last little bit of transparency. For the best value per dollar the regular volume is better.


----------



## phase0

sahmen said:


> Okay, thanks, but I do not exactly follow...My expertise in audio lingo is not among the sharpest I know, so could you kindly elaborate a little more?  Are you saying the "relay with remote control" allows a more refined control of the volume?


 
  
 My experience might not be representative as there may have been something wrong with my unit but I hated the relay. I settled on the middle option with remote control, it's totally smooth. With the relay you're going to hear some audible clicks and noise as it moves (audible in the sense that you can hear it mechanically moving, not inline in the audio stream). On mine there were also excessive clicks and pops in the audio stream which people assured me was not normal. In theory you're supposed to get fine grained control and it's supposed to have better audio quality. I couldn't tell a difference in sound quality when I got my unit back with the mid-level volume knob. IMO if you like throwing away your money get the relay option.


----------



## Khragon

phase0 said:


> My experience might not be representative as there may have been something wrong with my unit but I hated the relay. I settled on the middle option with remote control, it's totally smooth. With the relay you're going to hear some audible clicks and noise as it moves (audible in the sense that you can hear it mechanically moving, not inline in the audio stream). On mine there were also excessive clicks and pops in the audio stream which people assured me was not normal. In theory you're supposed to get fine grained control and it's supposed to have better audio quality. I couldn't tell a difference in sound quality when I got my unit back with the mid-level volume knob. IMO if you like throwing away your money get the relay option.


 

 I have the relay unit and did not hear any clicks or pops during usage, there are clicks during volume transition, but perfectly silence other wise.


----------



## PleasantSounds

project86 said:


> The relay option means you have a relay-based system with 128 steps, each .75dB apart from the previous step. So it's easy to dial in the exact same level every time. It also sounds ever so slightly better imho, since it has less "stuff" in the signal path compared to the regular potentiometer.


 
  
 Not sure if a resistor ladder together with switching relays is really less stuff than a single pot, but what it can achieve is much better consistency between L and R channel volume levels at any loudness.
  
 With pots it is much harder to get exactly the same resistance at every point of turn, while discrete resistors can be easily matched. This causes that the signal might mildly float between left and right as you turn the pot, but usually it's noticeable only at very low volume levels.
  
 128 steps is really state of the art, as some high end amps offer stepped volume control with only ~30 steps.


----------



## Khragon

Relays are good for sensitive IEMs since the operating range is most likely going to be down low.  The only problem I see with the relay volume is that it's hard to change one step at a time, remote control doesn't help either since it's simply move the volume knob too much.  You have to turn the knob by hand very little at a time.  Typically this isn't a problem, but with IEM sometime one press of the remote control button rotation is too much and you just need to manually dial it back down by hand.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

khragon said:


> I have the relay unit and did not hear any clicks or pops during usage, there are clicks during volume transition, but perfectly silence other wise.


 

 Are the clicks through the audio stream (i.e., headphones) or can you just hear/feel them externally during volume transition?


----------



## TonyNewman

birdmanofct said:


> Are the clicks through the audio stream (i.e., headphones) or can you just hear/feel them externally during volume transition?


 
  
 Through the headphones for me. Not objectionable in terms of volume. It's just a clicking noise


----------



## redstar

Hey all, may I ask, how does the LCD-X sound from the 850 paired with the v281?

How do IEMs sound also with the pair? Specifically the Noble K10u and if any one has tried, the new Noble Katanas

Also may I ask, if one opts for the additional digital-in on the v281, for example x-mos usb, how to you switch to the usb input? There doesnt appear to be a corresponding button on the front pannel.

Thanks again


----------



## mulder01

Haven't tried anything high sensitivity with the v281 but the digital input is selected by pressing the digital input button (labelled "dig")


----------



## redstar

Cheers 

Anyone else tried IEMs with the v281?


----------



## Khragon

I am using U12 with V281, you got to set it at -12dB, no worries since even at that setting I power my HD800S just fine, volume never goes past 12 o'clock.  For U12 the volume setting is a bit finicky, you got to stay down low and there the relay volume is a bit hit or miss since Violectric doesn't let you easily change volume one step at a time, it's based on the knob position instead, so what I usually do is go over the desire volume using the remote then dial it back down.  No problem with L/R balance, but a bit annoying sometime.  At -12dB setting with the U12 connected to the XLR output, if you listen very very very carefully you can hear some noise, zero noise using the single ended output.  In fact recently I haven't heard noise even on the XLR output, it's that low.


----------



## redstar

Thanks so much for the reply, may i ask whats the difference between motor and relay remote upgrades?

Regarding the -12db, is that the red switch area on the back, labled pre-gain? 

Regarding your setting, You only have the -12 on both left and right moved to the up position? You keep this setting for both full size and iems?
I guess this is not something that can be changed by the remote?

Cheers.


----------



## sahmen

Is it ideal to use the XLR analogue line-outs of the V281 to another Pre amp processor in order for the signal to be fed to another amp and speakers?
  
 My headphone systems is set up as follows:
  
 Emotiva ERC 3/Mac Mini music server ==>Schiit Yggrasil==>> V281 ===>> Headphones
  
 Currently, I am only feeding the V281 from the yggdrasil using the RCA unbalanced analog connections, because the XLR balanced connections on the yggy are connected to my Emotiva XMC-1 pre pro, for regular speaker listening.  Now  I would prefer to have the same XLR outputs on my Yddrasil feeding the V281, and since the V281 has XLR line outputs, I am wondering whether I should connect the Yggy to it (the V281) via the XLR, and then connect the V281 via its XLR Line outs to the pre pro, so that that the Yggy can now service alternatively when needed, both the V281 and the Emotiva XMC-1 via the XLR balanced connections?
  
 Will the XLR balanced signal to the XMC-1 pre pro be compromised if it has to be interfaced through the V281 like this:
  
 Yggdrasil ==balanced XLR==>> V281 ==balanced XLR==>>Emotiva XMC-1 pre pro ==>> External power amps  ==>> Polk LSIM stereor speakers? 
  
 Any helpful thoughts would be welcome.
  
 Thanks.
  
 Patrick


----------



## PleasantSounds

sahmen said:


> Is it ideal to use the XLR analogue line-outs of the V281 to another Pre amp processor in order for the signal to be fed to another amp and speakers?
> 
> My headphone systems is set up as follows:
> 
> ...


 
  
 It will work, but what do you need the XMC-1 in this chain for? The V281 can be used as a preamp for the speakers as well. In fact that's exactly what I am doing and am very happy with this configuration.


----------



## sahmen

pleasantsounds said:


> It will work, but what do you need the XMC-1 in this chain for? The V281 can be used as a preamp for the speakers as well. In fact that's exactly what I am doing and am very happy with this configuration.


 
 The XMC-1 does 7.2/1 HT, and shall soon be upgraded Atmos/DTS-X related enhancements to make it capable of handling,  7.2.4 channels  as well as HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2  compatibility. The
 2-channel rig to which the yggy and V281 are hooked uses the same two front LR speakers as that main XMC-1 driven HT system, so you could say I have an integrated 2.1/7.1/2 system.  The
 XMC-1 has a reference stereo setting which enables it to receive an analog stereo signal from another component and pass it on to the amps and speakers without any processing, so I can send the analog stereo signal from the Yggy/V281 combo directly to my two monoblock amps and the front L/R speakers through the XMC-1, which can also allow me to harness my two subs for stereo music if needed.
  
 If I was dealing simply with a two channel stereo rig, I wouldn't bother at all with the XMC-1.  I would use the V281 both as headphone amp, and as a stereo preamp for my two front speakers, as you're doing.  I actually have a near field desktop computer/headphone stereo rig which is set up exactly that way.


----------



## PleasantSounds

That looks logical. 
 Your intended config should work just fine. 
  
 If you intend to control the speakers volume through the XMC-1 then I'd recommend to make sure that the V281 will output fixed signal (i.e. not affected by its volume pot setting). Check page 22 of the manual for the relevant procedure.


----------



## sahmen

pleasantsounds said:


> If you intend to control the speakers volume through the XMC-1 then I'd recommend to make sure that the V281 will output fixed signal (i.e. not affected by its volume pot setting). Check page 22 of the manual for the relevant procedure.


 
 Excellent!  This is exactly the question I was going to ask next.  I'll check out p.22 in the manual.  Thanks for the great anticipation


----------



## sahmen

Ok, here we go again: what are "pre fader" and "post fader" modes, and how does each of these settings affect play and sound?  But the more serious question is whether, in order to  make sure that the V281 will output a fixed signal to my pre pro, I will have to mess with the internal DIP switches on the line-out circuit board that is shown in the illustration on page 33?  If so what will be the best fixed setting if I am using Balanced XLR connections all around, both to and from the V281?


----------



## PleasantSounds

sahmen said:


> Ok, here we go again: what are "pre fader" and "post fader" modes, and how does each of these settings affect play and sound?  But the more serious question is whether, in order to  make sure that the V281 will output a fixed signal to my pre pro, will I have to mess with the internal DIP switches on the line-out circuit board that is shown in the illustration on page 33?  If so what will be the best fixed setting if I am using Balanced XLR connections all around, both to and from the V281?


 
  
 You want pre-fader to get the fixed level signal. All you need for that is press a few buttons, as described in the manual.
 Mucking around the dip switches shouldn't be necessary unless the signal will be too strong or too weak for the XMC-1. Try it first as is.


----------



## sahmen

pleasantsounds said:


> You want pre-fader to get the fixed level signal. All you need for that is press a few buttons, as described in the manual.
> Mucking around the dip switches shouldn't be necessary unless the signal will be too strong or too weak for the XMC-1. Try it first as is.


 
 I think the instructions for engaging the pre-fader mode are rather simple... I just did not know what the expression meant (as in, why is it called a "fader," and what "fades" when it is engaged?).  I am certainly glad to hear this does not necessarily have to involve tinkering with any dip switches...  In fact, I would rather not open the chasis at all, and would be quite a happy camper if I never have to.
  
 Thanks for all your help.


----------



## redstar

Hi, hope someone can point me in the right direction. Im thinking of ordering both the v281 and v850, what balanced cables would one suggest to connect the amp and dac together? Are there any cables that have a small enough length to neatly connect when stacked. Something under a grand preferably.

Also what usb cable does one suggest?

Cheers.


----------



## mulder01

I don't suppose you're open to the suggestion of "Don't buy expensive cables - spend your money on something else"?...

Though Violectric makes some nice looking cables to connect these two. 0.5m is long enough and looks nice and neat if they are stacked or side by side. If you are buying the DAC/amp it would be no extra postage either I would think. $170 USD at the moment.

http://violectric-usa.com/accessories/pi-xlr-pair

There is no pics on the website but someone posted some here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/1935#post_12561094


----------



## PleasantSounds

mulder01 said:


> I don't suppose you're open to the suggestion of "Don't buy expensive cables - spend your money on something else"?...
> 
> Though Violectric makes some nice looking cables to connect these two. 0.5m is long enough and looks nice and neat if they are stacked or side by side. If you are buying the DAC/amp it would be no extra postage either I would think. $170 USD at the moment.
> 
> ...


 
  
 With balanced cables the difference they make is even less than with SE. Really not worth spending a lot on these, and $30 generic cables are all that is needed. The Violectric ones are probably at the top end of what makes sense. Good call @mulder01 !


----------



## redstar

Im totally on board with dont spend more thats needed on cables.

The photo confuses me somewhat, in the top image of the dac shows a black and white cross hatched type sleeving from the balanced outs, yet the below image of the amp shows a pink sleeving to the balanced in. 

Which is the violectric cable thats being refered to?

It seems as if that the photo of the dac, shows a pink coax cable connected to the digital input and a white/black cross hatched cables from the analogue balanced outs.
However the photo below of the amp, shows a pair of pink cables entering the balanced in.

Does the black and white cables change to a pink colour? Or are they different cables?

Im a bit of a newby, so maybe im understanding the concept wrong, but in order to listen to music balanced, does the dac and amp have to be connected via balanced cables? Balanced xlr out from the dac, to balanced xlr in on the amp. Then balanced 4pin xlr headphone cables from the front.

Thanks


----------



## S Crowther

I use short Moon Audio Blue Dragon XLR cables to connect my DAC to the V281 and also a Moon Audio USB cable to connect my MBP to the DAC.

I am very satisfied with the result. Also tried connecting the DAC to the V281 using SE but preferred the sound from the XLRs.


----------



## redstar

s crowther said:


> I use short Moon Audio Blue Dragon XLR cables to connect my DAC to the V281 and also a Moon Audio USB cable to connect my MBP to the DAC.
> 
> I am very satisfied with the result. Also tried connecting the DAC to the V281 using SE but preferred the sound from the XLRs.





Amazing, thank you ever so much for the reply. Are all XLR cables balanced? Does the cable need to be made in a specific way to be balanced? 
Cheers


----------



## S Crowther

redstar said:


> Amazing, thank you ever so much for the reply. Are all XLR cables balanced? Does the cable need to be made in a specific way to be balanced?
> Cheers




Yes, XLR means balanced. The connections/pins are standard. Nothing special required for the Violectric.


----------



## redstar

s crowther said:


> Yes, XLR means balanced. The connections/pins are standard. Nothing special required for the Violectric.





Thanks for clearing that up


----------



## project86

For quality XLRs that don't break the bank, I can recommend these from Surfcables as well as the Signal Cable Analog Two. You'd have to email Signal and see if they can do a shorter version, I'm sure it would not be a problem.


----------



## Fegefeuer

project86 said:


> The relay option means you have a relay-based system with 128 steps, each .75dB apart from the previous step. So it's easy to dial in the exact same level every time. I*t also sounds ever so slightly better imho*, since it has less "stuff" in the signal path compared to the regular potentiometer.
> 
> The standard and motorized options both use a very nice Alps RK27 pot and it works very well. The upgrade is for us crazy folks who want that last little bit of transparency. For the best value per dollar the regular volume is better.


 
  
 Imo the clicking is tolerable for the slight boost in overall clarity which you get. Maybe it was the latte macchiato that led to my conclusion but I listened back and forth like a madman (with the original HD800). Auditatory memory can be misleading though.


----------



## phonomat

wurstteppich said:


> I can borrow the balanced cable for the Pioneer Master 1 to you as I remember you are living somewhere near the Essen area? However it's the one from Pioneer, which has two 3-pin connectors.


 
  
 Hi Wurstteppich, I took a little vacation from Head-Fi, so I just saw this now. Thank you very much for your generous offer! I'm based in Munich, but I'll be in Essen next month. Do you live there? Anyhow, I'm afraid the 3-pin cable would indeed do me no good, I'd need an adapter which I don't have. Also, I'm tending more towards an aftermarket cable at the moment, since my stock cable has done this:
  

(anyone notice the amp in the background? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 with no apparent reason and I'm afraid the balanced one might do the same number on me. Also, the price is really quite steep.
  
 Well, thanks anyway, and perhaps we'll meet sometime in Essen!


----------



## deafdoorknob

I was planning on getting the v281 for my LCDX until I saw this... did anyone else pick up on the rather alarming bass roll off that Tyll measured? 

Even if the v281 sounds full bodied subjectively, the roll off concerns me 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/ViolectricV281.pdf


----------



## xxx1313

You will not hear anything below 20 Hz. So, even if measurements are correct, this is far from alarming.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





​


----------



## ken6217

Even if went to 20hz, you're not going to hear it on your headphones most likely anyway.


----------



## PleasantSounds

deafdoorknob said:


> I was planning on getting the v281 for my LCDX until I saw this... did anyone else pick up on the rather alarming bass roll off that Tyll measured?
> 
> Even if the v281 sounds full bodied subjectively, the roll off concerns me
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/ViolectricV281.pdf


 
  
 It’s -1dB at 30Hz and -2dB at 20Hz.
 What’s so alarming in that?


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## Drewligarchy

deafdoorknob said:


> I was planning on getting the v281 for my LCDX until I saw this... did anyone else pick up on the rather alarming bass roll off that Tyll measured?
> 
> Even if the v281 sounds full bodied subjectively, the roll off concerns me
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/ViolectricV281.pdf


 
  
 I can personally attest to the fact that the v281 is an absolute perfect match for the LCD XC. As the LCD X sound signature is somewhat similar, I think it would have to be good on the X (I have also used with LCD-3F and 4s with great results).
  
 I get the best bass response on my XC with the v281 when compared to any of my other amps - including a Auralic Taurus mk2, Marantz H Dac-1 and a Wadia 121 - if that alleviates any of your concerns. I actually upgraded to the v281 for the XC from a Woo WA7 specifically because I wasn't getting the level of bass response I wanted with the Woo.
  
 I use the Marantz HDac-1 primarily with the XC now only because its in my bedroom and that's where I need closed headphones. The V281 is better, but the HDac-1 is a fantastic match for the XC as well for the price if that's a factor. (Use v281 primarily for my 4s as they need the juice)
  
 As far as DACs, I've used both a Chord 2Qute and a NAD M51 with the v281 similar results in regards to bass.


----------



## deafdoorknob

Fried replied my email, "only the 182 relay option" has the roll off, those with regular and those with motorised volume control are unaffected.


----------



## zhgutov

deafdoorknob said:


> I was planning on getting the v281 for my LCDX until I saw this... did anyone else pick up on the rather alarming bass roll off that Tyll measured?
> 
> Even if the v281 sounds full bodied subjectively, the roll off concerns me
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/ViolectricV281.pdf


 
 This measurements are strange because there are another measurements without this roll off.
 Here they are: http://www.reference-audio-analyzer.pro/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v220.php.
 This is V220, but this does not matter, I think, because they both were made for SE outputs.


----------



## redstar

Would one suggest the Relay upgrade if its in budget? Or just go with the motor?


----------



## Khragon

I'm selling my V281 relay one if anyone is interested.


----------



## zhgutov

deafdoorknob said:


> Fried replied my email, "only the 182 relay option" has the roll off, those with regular and those with motorised volume control are unaffected.


 
 If so, it is very interesting, which part in this volume control may produce such roll off. And why this option is considered better. I wanted to upgrade, but now this option becomes mistrusted in my eyes.


----------



## thomascrown

zhgutov said:


> If so, it is very interesting, which part in this volume control may produce such roll off. And why this option is considered better. I wanted to upgrade, but now this option becomes mistrusted in my eyes.



I have just sent back to lake people my v281 to check the functionality of the relay volume pot. I now wonder if I should ask for a downgrade as well (as kindly offered by Fried).


----------



## mulder01

I'm fairly sure my hearing only goes down to about 25hz anyway.  
 Would I have ever known that I am losing a decibel in the lowest bass I can possibly hear?  Noo...


----------



## zhgutov

mulder01 said:


> I'm fairly sure my hearing only goes down to about 25hz anyway.
> Would I have ever known that I am losing a decibel in the lowest bass I can possibly hear?  Noo...


 

 You can try the following to check it: http://www.primefan.ru/pt1.html
 1. Pink noise at -12 dB FS - Third-octave band 20 Hz (17.83 - 22.43 Hz)
 2. Pink noise at -12 dB FS - Third-octave band 25 Hz (22.30 - 28.03 Hz)
  
 (be careful with the volume)
  
 I'm sure, you can hear it. Maybe not as clear tone, but... I think this has impact on the sound.
  
 The words used here to describe the difference between the volume control options remind me the words, in which I can describe the difference between V100/V200's low-cut filter turned on or off.
 So, I'm not sure, what exactly am I buying for almost $700: better sound or just low-cut filter, which probably makes the signal slightly less busy?
 And I can not estimate the difference using any other way, because the measurements look the same.


----------



## mulder01

What the heck is an .ape file...

Surely if you were buying a headphone amplifier on objective measurements, you would get something like a JDS Element, or something entry level from Schiit?


----------



## zhgutov

.ape is Monkey's Audio =)
http://www.monkeysaudio.com/
  
Foobar with the corresponding component can play this, for example.
  
 I don't know what is more significant in this case: measurements or something behind them.


----------



## deafdoorknob

from the horses mouth:

"The low frequency roll-off which you can see in the inner-fidelity plots is due to the 128-step relay option.

For all amps with the standard volume control or the motorized ones (including V281 !) the frequency range is as denoted in the specs. 

Best regards

Fried Reim"

A) the specs and the measurements (by innerfidelity) didn't match, I was seeking clarity.

B) and yup, I am paying for it out of my pocket, I would prefer for a product to perform as advertised.


----------



## redstar

So is one suggesting, not not opt for relay? Just go with motor?


----------



## zhgutov

redstar said:


> So is one suggesting, not not opt for relay? Just go with motor?


 
 Or to ask Fried Reim to implement the relay-based unit with the flat frequency response


----------



## redstar

zhgutov said:


> Or to ask Fried Reim to implement the relay-based unit with the flat frequency response


 
  
 Can that be a thing?


----------



## zhgutov

I don't know, it's just a thought uttered aloud


----------



## Mist3rLao

The HD650 balanced with the V281 is a different animal! Kind of got me wondering if HEK was really a good idea afterall. Lol! 

As is usually the case, project86 was really spot-on on this one:

_"The higher end of the pricing scale is never the best in terms of value, so you really have to ask yourself if you wouldn’t be just as happy spending less on a slightly inferior (but still excellent) headphone. I’d even go so far as to recommend hunting down a second-hand example of the recently discontinued HiFiMAN HE-500 — one of my all time favorites — which can likely be had for a comparative pittance these days. And don’t forget the Sennheiser HD650, ever the crowdpleaser, which is on sale for under $400 brand new. No, none of these are as good as the HE-1000, yet all have the potential to satisfy for a lot less cash. Seriously, give it some thought."_

Here's the setup:


----------



## ken6217

I have the HD650 and the HEK. They don't even be long in the same sentence, let alone a comparison.


----------



## Mist3rLao

ken6217 i agree, and I'm not trying to say that they are... What I'm trying say is that, for a fraction of the cost, the HD650, in the right system, could be considered a good end-game for a lot of folks. 

As Project86 puts it, "have the potential to satisfy for a lot less cash."

I was just amazed at how well the HD650 scaled up, since it was the first time I tried them balanced after purchasing adapters for it together with the balanced Norne Solv X cables i got for the HEK. 

The adapter is pretty cool though, I get to use my cable with two HPs. Here's how it looks:


----------



## project86

Yes, HEK is certainly a lot better than HD650, HE-500, LCD-2, etc. My point in that paragraph was that people shouldn't flock to the most expensive, latest and greatest releases merely because they exist. 
  
 This is not all that different from recommending a speaker. We could start off with Magico, Wilson, Raidho, Avantgarde, Marten Design, YG Acoustics, etc, spending the big bucks and (hopefully) getting amazing sound. BUT it's not absurd to consider less obscene options from Salk, Usher, KEF, Tannoy, Penaudio, Totem, Aerial Acoustics, Harbeth... potentially some _very _good results and certainly more value.
  
 Does it mean I think a Salk Songtower is better than a Marten Coltrane Supreme? Of course not.


----------



## xxx1313

I also have both HD650 and HEK. You are absolutely right, HD650 with V281 is good, really good. But V281 with HEK is still much much better. Trying the HD650 with the V281 is a nice experiment and a nice easy to listen combination with more detail and greater soundstage you would have expected from the HD650 before! The infamous veil is gone nearly completely. However, in general, it does not make much sense to combine an a headamp of 2k USD/EUR with a headphone of 300-400 USD/EUR. The other way round you will still get a better combination (ifi iDSD Micro with HEK/HEX/HD800S etc.). So even though the HD650 shines with the V281, the Vio is made for the greatest cans availabe!


----------



## project86

xxx1313 said:


> I also have both HD650 and HEK. You are absolutely right, HD650 with V281 is good, really good. But V281 with HEK is still much much better. Trying the HD650 with the V281 is a nice experiment and a nice easy to listen combination with more detail and greater soundstage you would have expected from the HD650 before! The infamous veil is gone nearly completely.* However, in general, it does not make much sense to combine an a headamp of 2k USD/EUR with a headphone of 300-400 USD/EUR*. The other way round you will still get a better combination (ifi iDSD Micro with HEK/HEX/HD800S etc.). So even though the HD650 shines with the V281, the Vio is made for the greatest cans availabe!


 
  
  
 True. The quote Mist3rLao posted earlier was from my review of the HEK. So the context was not about using V281 with affordable cans, but rather - some people will be perfectly happy with excellent gear that isn't top of the line gear. V200 is a great amp, V220 and V181... all great options for less than top dollar. Heck, I love the Lake People G109 paired with an HE500, which is pretty damn affordable in the grand scheme of things. For a lot of people who aren't totally crazy like me, that setup is plenty. 
  
 I still like V281 and HEK more though.


----------



## 3083joe

project86 said:


> True. The quote [COLOR=6A6A6A]Mist3rLao [/COLOR]posted earlier was from my review of the HEK. So the context was not about using V281 with affordable cans, but rather - some people will be perfectly happy with excellent gear that isn't top of the line gear. V200 is a great amp, V220 and V181... all great options for less than top dollar. Heck, I love the Lake People G109 paired with an HE500, which is pretty damn affordable in the grand scheme of things. For a lot of people who aren't totally crazy like me, that setup is plenty.
> 
> I still like V281 and HEK more though.



Love my v281 and HD800 S


----------



## xxx1313

3083joe said:


> Love my v281 and HD800 S


 
 Yeah, a great combination, I know. You can be happy with it!


----------



## TokenGesture

V280 has landed


----------



## 13713

tokengesture said:


> V280 has landed




Impressions?


----------



## TokenGesture

13713 said:


> Impressions?




I can raise my eyebrow like Roger Moore if that helps? 

(Too soon - not had enough time with it yet)


----------



## sahmen

*Okay NOOB question (sort of) : So how much help are the pre gain settings on the back of the V281?:*
  
 At unity gain, this unit (v281) has enough juice to drive all my cans with aplomb, but this question is particularly about the *Hifiman He-6*. Most of you are aware of just how inefficient and power-hungry it is. The apparent good news is that I can get it to play loudly enough to my ears when the volume dial is set on 1-2 o'clock at unity gain.
  
 I have been toying with the idea of setting the pre gain switches in the back to either +6DB OR +12 DB when using the He-6, but I haven't since I can get enough loudness from the unit with these cans at 1-2 o'clock at unity gain, as I have mentioned. However, I am wondering whether I am getting optimal performance from the v281 with these settings, which brings me to my question... Are the gain settings simply about loudness levels, or are they able to contribute to further optimization when switched to more "appropriate" settings for a particular set of cans? With the He-6's impedance and sensitivity ratings (50 ohms/83db), will I be able to squeeze better sq performance (better, as in better dynamics, better "air," instruments separation, sound stage etc. etc) by setting pre gain switches to +6 or +12db or will switching simply enable me to get desired loudness levels at lower volume dial settings than I am using now (1-2 o'clock)? If it just a matter of switching loudness levels, then the lazy part of me does not want to bother messing with the pre gain switches, since I can get the He-6 to play loudly enough at unity gain...
  
 Any helpful insights would be welcome.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Judging from the circuit diagrams, the pre-gain is just another signal attenuation stage just past the volume pot.
 Based on that I'd be very surprised if it had any other effect than adjusting the usable volume pot range.


----------



## 3083joe

pleasantsounds said:


> Judging from the circuit diagrams, the pre-gain is just another signal attenuation stage just past the volume pot.
> Based on that I'd be very surprised if it had any other effect than adjusting the usable volume pot range.



Agree


----------



## 3083joe




----------



## Smileyko

Hi Dear fan of Vio: I am in. I bought all my gear this year from reading Head Fi, impulse buyer. I am now living in HCMC Vietnam and I only go SE and never balanced so which model is best for me? Money no concern and I will also get the dac that they have with either the V280 or the V220? Any thoughts from you experts? Thanks so much. I will also get the Ether Flow to go with the Vio.


----------



## Fegefeuer

If money is no concern then make that Ether Flow balanced and get the V281 or V280. Definitely get balanced cables for all your headphones.


----------



## mulder01

Well if money is no concern, you would just get the higher model, right?  The 280?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I seriously know a guy that is going to buy the V280 because he prefers the form factor to the V281's


----------



## reklov

I bought the V280 because I don't need the extra features a V281 offers - it sits right on my desk and fits nicely under my 2015 Mac (I use my AK240 as DAC). So the form factor (lower height) IS a plus. I'm eying the RS 06 (Lakepeople brand) as stationary DAC, optics don't match the V280 as nicely as the V850 does but it's has the same performance without features the features of the 850 that I don't need anyway. If money no problem I would match 280 with 850 though. And I also agree that balanced is betterfin SQ and soundstage. I tested it with my T1P.


----------



## TokenGesture

I went 280 as I don't need the 281 features. Still early days but loving it - neutral with a hint of warmth, allows all the detail and space in the recording to alcove through. Haven't had an opportunity to use ballanced out yet need some cables


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, the V280 is slightly warmer up top than the V281 from what I could hear with the HD800.
  
 I really loved the transparent cover of the V280 they showed at the HE 2016 but it was purely for letting you see the insides. I wish it was offered with that design as it had HDVD800 vibes just more menacing and powerful.


----------



## reklov




----------



## Fegefeuer

nice, did you buy the XLR cable for the T1v2 or mod the existing SE one yourself?


----------



## reklov

i bought it from beyerdynamic


----------



## mulder01

The v280 would probably suit most people - is the main difference the power output? Which I assume nobody is close to reaching on their 281 anyway?


----------



## zhgutov

mulder01 said:


> The v280 would probably suit most people - is the main difference the power output? Which I assume nobody is close to reaching on their 281 anyway?


 
 With the exception of Abyss AB-1266, probably


----------



## 3083joe

mulder01 said:


> The v280 would probably suit most people - is the main difference the power output? Which I assume nobody is close to reaching on their 281 anyway?



Is the V280 balanced?


----------



## Fegefeuer

3083joe said:


> Is the V280 balanced?


 
  
 yes


----------



## reklov

here you find a dedicated thread for the V280:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/803271/violectric-hpa-v280-slim-and-powerful-balanced-hpa


----------



## mulder01

zhgutov said:


> With the exception of Abyss AB-1266, probably


 
  
 Actually 3.1w into 50 ohms is still pretty powerful! (I think the v281 is closer to 6w though).  
  
 I've had the Abyss running off an amp at about 0.8w before and it's been enough so the v280 should more than capable.  HE-6 is the most power hungry I think so maybe not ideal for that?  Should still go pretty hard though.  Sahmen mentioned on the last page that the 281 had more than enough power for his HE6 so the 280 could probably even handle that I would say - especially since some portable amps claim to be suitable and don't reach that level of power output.  Though some people like to have massive headroom for that particular can for whatever reason.


----------



## zhgutov

mulder01 said:


> Actually 3.1w into 50 ohms is still pretty powerful! (I think the v281 is closer to 6w though).
> 
> I've had the Abyss running off an amp at about 0.8w before and it's been enough so the v280 should more than capable.  HE-6 is the most power hungry I think so maybe not ideal for that?  Should still go pretty hard though.  Sahmen mentioned on the last page that the 281 had more than enough power for his HE6 so the 280 could probably even handle that I would say - especially since some portable amps claim to be suitable and don't reach that level of power output.  Though some people like to have massive headroom for that particular can for whatever reason.


 
 I haven't heard HE-6, so I don't know. But I heard Abyss in SE mode (strange, but this was the only option in the shop). It's enough power for relaxed listening, but you cannot get loud without clipping on V281. Maybe in balanced mode this is not the case.


----------



## mulder01

zhgutov said:


> I haven't heard HE-6, so I don't know. But I heard Abyss in SE mode (strange, but this was the only option in the shop). It's enough power for relaxed listening, but you cannot get loud without clipping on V281. Maybe in balanced mode this is not the case.


 
  
 I am using mine with an Abyss and something doesn't sound right there - maybe the source was clipping and the pre gain was right down or something?  I come _nowhere near_ running out of power on the 281.


----------



## zhgutov

mulder01 said:


> I am using mine with an Abyss and something doesn't sound right there - maybe the source was clipping and the pre gain was right down or something?  I come _nowhere near_ running out of power on the 281.


 

 The source was V800 connected via RCA (ex-works, 6 dBu) to V281, which was running with the default pregain settings. Abyss were connected using it's own cable via adapter to 6.3 jack (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). Hard clipping was after about 2 or 3 o'clock on bass in Linkin Park song. Until this level everything was alright. Maybe it's the headphones position on the head (I mean the distance), which may affect the perceptual loudness. But maybe something else... adapter, for example. It was surprising for me when I measured the schulz + neutrik (!) xlr cables (assembled in a shop), and found that they produce very large distortions similar to clipping (another cables worked well). Maybe that was the case, but I don't understand then, why there was that hard bound like in THD vs level graphs.
  
 UPD. Anyway, I think you're right. It should be about 120 105 dB SPL from Abyss to have the clipping via V281 in SE mode.


----------



## Smileyko

Very Thankful for all your advice. The Vio are nice folks tops in customer service. They send me to Kingsound Audio of HK. I am there every month. Bens Lau is now in contact with me by email and I am about to dive in to the Vio Club with the V220 and build in DAC. I love the huge volume control on the front so powerful just looking at it. Now the wait and wait and wait........


----------



## mulder01

Im sure anyone in Australia interested in this amp is already aware of this, but you can get the v281 for AUD $1999 incl. shipping which is about 1350 euros (about 550 euros cheaper than the European price). Only available within Aus though...
http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/violectric-audio-hpa-v281-balanced-headphonepre-amplifier


----------



## casper3127

1350€ is an attractive price... Wish we had had these here in the EU 

Enviado desde mi H1


----------



## mulder01

zhgutov said:


> The source was V800 connected via RCA (ex-works, 6 dBu) to V281, which was running with the default pregain settings. Abyss were connected using it's own cable via adapter to 6.3 jack (
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I would wonder if this has something to do with the fit of the Abyss rather than the performance of the amp. AFAIK the Abyss is normally demoed with the headband fully extended which may leave a large air gap on some people which will cause the bass to clip when the volume is turned up. A lot of people walk away fairly underwhelmed from an Abyss audition at a show and I wonder if this is the reason. Another member recently bought an Abyss even though he said he preferred his LCD-4 by a fair margin. Once he got the Abyss home and adjusted properly to his head, the LCD-4 was up for sale the next day. The fit can affect the sound that much. Just a theory, but I probably wouldn't blame the Vio for the bad demo..


----------



## 3083joe

mulder01 said:


> zhgutov said:
> 
> 
> > The source was V800 connected via RCA (ex-works, 6 dBu) to V281, which was running with the default pregain settings. Abyss were connected using it's own cable via adapter to 6.3 jack (
> ...



Agreed.


----------



## zhgutov

mulder01 said:


> zhgutov said:
> 
> 
> > The source was V800 connected via RCA (ex-works, 6 dBu) to V281, which was running with the default pregain settings. Abyss were connected using it's own cable via adapter to 6.3 jack (
> ...


 

 Yes, there was a small gap. But the bass response was still okay. It was not a bad demo, the sound was good. Just limited performance caused by something (maybe by this gap).


----------



## mulder01

Yeah it's hard to say, was just a theory as I haven't heard anyone complaining about the 281 behaving that way in the past.  I'll link you to this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/666765/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread/4230#post_12685395 and the Abyss CEOs response is after it.  Well, this was the reason I suggested fit as possibly being the problem anyway... Who knows...


----------



## zhgutov

mulder01 said:


> Yeah it's hard to say, was just a theory as I haven't heard anyone complaining about the 281 behaving that way in the past.  I'll link you to this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/666765/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread/4230#post_12685395 and the Abyss CEOs response is after it.  Well, this was the reason I suggested fit as possibly being the problem anyway... Who knows...


 

 Wow. This means the distortion may come earlier from Abyss when you leave the gap from the head and turn the volume up?
 I cannot find the power handling capability specs for Abyss, but it's easy to calculate the maximum SPL until clipping for V281.
 So, this theory looks reasonable, because ~120 dB is too much even with the gap.
  
 UPD. My fault, I used the wrong numbers. It's about 105 dB SPL in SE mode for V281 to get clipping with the Abyss.


----------



## mulder01

Yeah I have never had clipping with mine and I do have it quite loud from time to time. You just can't have a very sloppy fit. Not sure why you would use single ended mode when both the headphone and amp have balanced connectors though.


----------



## zhgutov

mulder01 said:


> Yeah I have never had clipping with mine and I do have it quite loud from time to time. You just can't have a very sloppy fit. Not sure why you would use single ended mode when both the headphone and amp have balanced connectors though.


 
 It was the only way to connect them all in the shop. It's strange, I agree. Of course I use the balanced mode in my home setup.


----------



## Gonzi

How well does V281 pair with Sennheiser HD650?
 I've tried V100 some time ago and it was boring, lack of dynamics etc. Cheaper tubes like Valhalla2 or Laconic NBM (own it at the moment) drive HD650 much better.
 Thinking of one all-purpose amp instead of several amps / combos one for its own headphones...
 Looking at V281, Mjolnir2 or may be Jotunheim now... hm.


----------



## Mist3rLao

My only gripe with the V281 as an all-around amp is that it does not pair well with my IEMs (Shure SE846/64 Audio A12).


----------



## John Willett

pleasantsounds said:


> Judging from the circuit diagrams, the pre-gain is just another signal attenuation stage just past the volume pot.
> Based on that I'd be very surprised if it had any other effect than adjusting the usable volume pot range.


 
  
 Looking at the block diagram in the owner's manual it looks as if you are setting the gain staging in an amplifier. 
  
 There are two amplification stages, according to the diagram, before the main amplifiers - so it looks as is it is a gain control in 5 preset steps to deliver the crrect level to the main amplifier.
  
 So it's a boost or cut, depending on your requirements.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

mist3rlao said:


> My only gripe with the V281 as an all-around amp is that it does not pair well with my IEMs (Shure SE846/64 Audio A12).




I agree with this regarding my 64 Audio A12's. I recently picked up the 64Audio U6 and it's an excellent pairing. I'm not getting the hiss I have with the A12's. I get noise on the A12's even with the volume turned to zero (and I am using the -12 db adjustment on the back). With the U6 I don't notice it at all. The treble is much better with the U6 and V281 using the MAM modules from what I recall, but I only had a couple of days with the A12's and MAMs as I had to send my A12's in for a reshell as the fit is off. 

If anyone knows of a solution I'd love to find one. Oddly I don't have this issue with the V200 and A12's.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## zhgutov

scottcocoabeach said:


> I agree with this regarding my 64 Audio A12's. I recently picked up the 64Audio U6 and it's an excellent pairing. I'm not getting the hiss I have with the A12's. I get noise on the A12's even with the volume turned to zero (and I am using the -12 db adjustment on the back). With the U6 I don't notice it at all. The treble is much better with the U6 and V281 using the MAM modules from what I recall, but I only had a couple of days with the A12's and MAMs as I had to send my A12's in for a reshell as the fit is off.
> 
> If anyone knows of a solution I'd love to find one. Oddly I don't have this issue with the V200 and A12's.


 
 V200 has better SNR than V281.
 It looks like the noise floor is constant, and comes from the amplifier.
 So, it remains the same with the different volume levels or pregain settings.
 Noise level is specified in dBu (absolute) in the specs: -100 dBu for V200, and -95 dBu for V281.
 The measurements confirm that.
  
 P.S. I don't know how to make the noise inside the amp lower.


----------



## sahmen

Don't hear any noise from my v281 whatsoever, with any of my cans--Zero, zilch, rien, nada!


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## phonomat

sahmen said:


> Don't hear any noise from my v281 whatsoever, with any of my cans--Zero, zilch, rien, nada!




You mean zip?


----------



## zhgutov

socks mk2 said:


> Adding a Power Conditioner to your chain? Again, that's assuming it's wall power noise.


 
 IMHO, it will not change anything. Look at the noise spectrum of V281 measured by innerfidelity:
  

  
 They used power conditioners and good cables for Big Sound 2015 event.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## zhgutov

socks mk2 said:


> I made a big rant post about this on the LCD-4 thread. Tyll doesn't measure balanced. Only single ended afaik. That doesn't represent the V281 at its best.


 

 Yes, it is for SE mode, but:
 1. We don't know if this noise is in phase at the balanced output.
 2. I think SE mode will be used for the sensitive IEM's (correct me if I am wrong, I don't have any of them).
  
 Anyway, I don't think this noise is the problem for big headphones, because the noise is constant, and I don't hear it at all.
 I think the IMD (without noise) or something in this area is much more important, and this is the area in which this amp works well.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## zhgutov

socks mk2 said:


> "A V220 or V200 is a stereo amp with one power supply. The V281 is two stereo amps each with its own power supply. Two stereo amps or four mono amps are needed for a balanced headphone connection. Each stereo amp is bridged, one in phase, one 180 degrees out of phase. In phase is + on the driver and out of phase is - on the driver."


 
 If I use balanced source, the signal comes to the amplifiers as is without splitting, inverting, or something else.
 So, almost for sure, the noise is in phase and will be virtually subtracted. Maybe you're right in this case.
 Now I want to get the corresponding cables and make my own measurements to check that...
  
 Another thing what is interesting to me is the balanced<->single ended jumper.
 Does it change the 6.3 jacks mapping only, or it makes something more (maybe changes the amps mapping), and what can it do with crosstalk, for example.


----------



## mulder01

Why are you looking at a powerful desktop amp for sensitive IEMs? I think you'll find most big powerful amps have the same noise floor problem. Maybe look into the new Schiit amp if you need lots of juice but also to power sensitive IEMs. Well, Jude's video made it seem suitable for both the very sensitive and very power hungry ends of the market anyway. Or if you specifically want a Violectric product, just email Fried and tell him what gear you have and he may be able to suggest a product from their range to suit your requirements.


----------



## sahmen

phonomat said:


> You mean zip?


 
 Yup!  that too, and all the others.


----------



## phonomat

That is quite a lot.


----------



## zhgutov

socks mk2 said:


> A V220 or V200 is a stereo amp with one power supply. The V281 is two stereo amps each with its own power supply. Two stereo amps or four mono amps are needed for a balanced headphone connection. Each stereo amp is bridged, one in phase, one 180 degrees out of phase. In phase is + on the driver and out of phase is - on the driver.


 
 I made some measurements with the E-MU 0404 USB. Please note, what this is not the Audio Precision 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Test chain: E-MU 1010 PCI > TOSLINK > Violectric V800 > XLR > Violectric V281 > 6.3 stereo to XLR > E-MU 0404 USB microphone inputs > coax > E-MU 1010 PCI
  
 Everything is grounded. Jumpers inside V800 / V281 are set to GND.
  
 I changed the channel mapping for 6.3 jacks via jumpers in V281 to be able to use the existing cables.
 That's it:
  

  
  
 The noise floor of the E-MU 0404 USB:
  

  
  
 Now I turn on the V281 with 0 dB pregain, and the volume at 12 o'clock:
  

  
 0 dB in this graph is somewhere near 8 dBu.
 The different position of the volume pot changes the noise floor slightly.
  
  
 That's because I want to see the graph for -12 dB pregain (volume at 12 o'clock):
  

  
 Pregain changes the noise floor! Maybe that's why I personally prefer 24 dBu / -12 dB mode with the V800 / V281.
  
  
 Now I can turn V800 on to get some signal with this settings (volume turned down to about 8 o'clock, or even lower):
  

  
 So, it looks like the balanced connection does not affect the noise (at least in the 100-500 Hz area), measured by innerfidelity.
  
 P.S. Please note what I use 220V / 50 Hz power source.


----------



## musicbuff

gonzi said:


> How well does V281 pair with Sennheiser HD650?
> I've tried V100 some time ago and it was boring, lack of dynamics etc. Cheaper tubes like Valhalla2 or Laconic NBM (own it at the moment) drive HD650 much better.
> Thinking of one all-purpose amp instead of several amps / combos one for its own headphones...
> Looking at V281, Mjolnir2 or may be Jotunheim now... hm.


 

 Very well! I found the improvement was even more exceptional when connected with a balanced cable. YMMV The V-281 Improved the HD 650's imaging and clarity on all levels; highs were more pronounced and extended, mids were oh, so, rich, and the lows were present and tight. IMHO the V-281 will bring out the best the HD-650 has to offer.


----------



## senator52

Hi everyone,
  
 I've been trying to understand the difference between the volume control options. I will be using the V281 within arms length if I buy it. 99% of use will be via the pc (currently tossing up between this and the ifi Ican Pro) and was thinking that the no remote option is likely sufficient for my uses since I won't ever use a remote. Am I correct in assuming that the higher options will have minimal sonic impact and it's just implementing the remote control in a polished fashion? 
  
 Thanks for your help in advance, the amp is going to be my first step in upgrading my rig significantly (looking at a v850 in a few months as well).


----------



## project86

The base option with no remote is essentially the same as the remote version, except for the motor which gives it remote capability. Then there's the relay-based upgrade which is a very slight audible improvement. Honestly even though I went for it, I wouldn't recommend it for most people. If you've got an uber-expensive DAC, music server, cables, power conditioner.... then yeah, get the relay option. Other than that, and if you don't need remote, the basic volume is fine.


----------



## senator52

project86 said:


> The base option with no remote is essentially the same as the remote version, except for the motor which gives it remote capability. Then there's the relay-based upgrade which is a very slight audible improvement. Honestly even though I went for it, I wouldn't recommend it for most people. If you've got an uber-expensive DAC, music server, cables, power conditioner.... then yeah, get the relay option. Other than that, and if you don't need remote, the basic volume is fine.


 
  
 Thanks very much, sounds like I can put the $500 towards the v850.


----------



## Eruditeswine

What about V281 with V850 against V280 with (Lake People) DAC RS 06? Especially on a desk and within reach.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## Fegefeuer

V281 is less warm than the V280 with a slightly bigger soundstage, you also have the power advantage. Can't say anything about those DACs in comparison though. However if you have the money then go for the V850. Much more sophisticated build and a superior PSU.


----------



## senator52

Well took the plunge and got the base model V281, excited to give it a run when it arrives.
  
 Thanks to everyone in this thread as I read almost the whole thing =p


----------



## TonyNewman

fegefeuer said:


> V281 is less warm than the V280 with a slightly bigger soundstage, you also have the power advantage. Can't say anything about those DACs in comparison though. However if you have the money then go for the V850. Much more sophisticated build and a superior PSU.


 
  
 Having run a V281 with an Auralic Vega, then a Hegel HD30, and now a Bricasti M1, I can confirm that this amp scales nicely with better DACs. I have never heard the V850 - might be great for all I know - but if your budget can stretch to an Uber-ish DAC, the V281 will reward you.
  
 My original V281 was damaged in a power spike and is under repair. I missed it so much I picked up a replacement unit on a recent trip to Melbourne to visit family. The price was too good to miss. Only downside is that only the silver face plate option was available, but it has the TOTL relay volume control. Since I don't look at the DAC while listening to music I really don't care all that much about the colour. Not sure what to do with the extra V281 once the repair is complete. Might just keep it as a spare since I don't like to be without a working V281.
  
 Some folks have asked about running a HE6 from the V281 and the gain switches at the back. My 2 cents on this - the V281 drives the HE6 _*superbly*_. I am using my V281->HE6 rig right now. The volume control is at 12 o'clock and putting it higher will start listening fatigue for me. The XLR outputs on my Bricasti throw about 3V, so the DAC feed is slightly warm, but there is plenty of head space on the amp. This is with the gain switches in the default position (no extra gain at all). It just isn't necessary IMHO, even with the HE6.
  
 A DAC with a 2V output would need the volume pot cranked a little more, but messing with the gain switches still shouldn't be necessary. This is using the balanced output on the V281, of course. I think the single ended outputs throw half the power? Whatever - pointless with the HE6. Go balanced or go home 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Running the HE6 from a power amp does give _*slightly *_more bass and body to the music to my ears, but not hugely so in my experience. Maybe a 5 or 10% difference, if that. I think it would not be a simple task to tell them apart in a blind test. My HE6 slams hard from the V281.
  
 I have gone through the Auralic Taurus MK2, then Simaudio 430HA and finally the V281. My amp search has ended with the V281. I love this amp.


----------



## mulder01

tonynewman said:


> Not sure what to do with the extra V281 once the repair is complete. Might just keep it as a spare since I don't like to be without a working V281.


 
  
 Wow you REALLY love your 281!


----------



## Eruditeswine

@TonyNewman Do you prefer M1's direct balanced out or V281? Could you elaborate the differences? Finally, have you heard the Headamp GS-X MkII? If so, what are your thoughts on it?
  
 Always anticipate your discerning view. Thank you.


----------



## TonyNewman

mulder01 said:


> Wow you REALLY love your 281!


 
  
 It's a bromance kind of thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 V281 is the only amp I have heard that combines detail, dynamics, punch with a touch a of warmth.
  


eruditeswine said:


> @TonyNewman Do you prefer M1's direct balanced out or V281? Could you elaborate the differences? Finally, have you heard the Headamp GS-X MkII? If so, what are your thoughts on it?


 
  
 Never heard the GS-X Mk2. Given my penchant for neutralish headphones a neutral-bright amp like the GS-X is unlikely to work for me. Everything I have read about it points to it being a suped-up Taurus. I'll pass on that. Combining neutral-bright amps with neutral-bright headphones makes my skin crawl. Might work great with an Audeze or Abyss type of headphone. I don't like Audeze products and the Abyss makes me shudder (for price and looks).
  
 Only headphone I have now that can be well driven direct from the Bricasti is the Ether C. The Ether C is a little bright for that and benefits from the extra warmth of the V281. Once I get the Ether C upgraded to an Ether Flow (open) then all this could change. I would expect the Flow to work great direct from the Bricasti. I'm looking forward to trying that.
  
 The 3V output from the Bricasti does drive the HE6 very nicely for everything except the bass - which fails badly. Not that different to driving a HE6 from the Taurus in that respect. Needs more juice.
  
 Driving direct from the DAC output does increase transparency, dynamics, detail a tad. Not huge, but noticeable. The XLR harness was relatively cheap, so an easy experiment to try it. Tonality is the issue with the Ether C. Flow could tick the box nicely. A focal product might also be another candidate, but my budget is so shredded that it will be a while before I can try that.


----------



## sahmen

Here's a question about the "Pre-fader" and "Post-fader" settings which I have sent to Violectric Customer service:  The short version is that in "Pre-fader" settings, in which the volume level of the V281 is supposed to be fixed, I can still control volume levels of my speakers with the V281, which seems to indicate that the volume level is still "variable" rather than fixed.  I want to know if I am not doing something correctly, or whether my unit is faulty.
  
 Here's the full question:
  

I have a question for you, regarding the use of the "Pre-fader and "Post-fader" settings" on the v281. I have my V281 connected to an external processor (Emotiva XMC-1, which services my entire HT system)...  My Schiit Yggdrasil feeds the V281 using the balanced connections, mostly for Headphone amping duties, but there are times when I want to listen to the Yggy through the front L, R speakers attached to the XMC-1 processor, and the V281 provides a great interface for that, through the line-out XLR connections (to the XMC-1)...

Now Because I want to control the volume of the speakers with the XMC-1 in this mode, it would be ideal for the signal feeding it from the v281 to be fixed...  Incidentally, the v281's the manual says something similar on Page 21:

"PRE-POST FADER or FIXED-VARIABLE

The line-out signal can be tapped at two different points within the
V281’s signal path.
If you wish to make use of the input signal without any level change –
for a device with its own level controls or recording purposes e.g. – the
Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader path (prior to level control) is the right choice:
In this case, the unaltered INPUT signal (prior to level control) is
forwarded to the line output."

The problem I seem to be having is that when my V281 is on the Fixed/Pre fader setting (Green "Line" led, and "XLR" led lights illuminated), the volume of the speakers still remains very sensitive to the volume level of the V281, and I can control the volume of the speakers with both the V281 Dial and the volume dial of the XMC-1, which is not ideal, because I'd rather have the level on the V281 fixed (as described by the manual) and only the XMC-1 doing the actual volume control.  Besides, it seems to me, if I have understood the manual correctly, that this behavior reflects that "Post Fader/Variable volume level" mode, and not the "pre-fader/Fixed" mode I am looking for.

There is also how the manual describes the process of switching between modes:


"Switching between “Pre“ and “Post“
is effected via software:
Press and hold the “LINE“ pushbutton
for about two seconds until the green
LED starts flashing. The present status
is displayed by the “XLR” LED (pre
fader) or the “DIG” LED (post fader)."

When I press the "Line Button", however, the flashing of the green light seems to occur only in the DIG setting (or leading to the selection of that DIG setting), which is actually intended for the selection of the "Post-fader/Variable", and not in the "Prefader/fixed level setting.

I wonder whether there is something I am doing wrong in negotiating these settings, or whether my V281 is faulty.

The unit is otherwise performing very well, interfacing between the Yggy and the XMC-1 processor, and enabling me to hear the sound from the Yggy in my speakers.  It is just that the volume level is acting "variable" rather than "fixed."

Any helpful thoughts you can provide about this matter would be highly appreciated.


----------



## Smileyko

Hey guys and gals don't hammer me I am a rookie in Head Fi. I did end up with the V220 without the inhouse DAC 10 days ago. Just 2 days ago the Violectric lovefest cause me to run out in the rain here in Saigon to get the Senn DH 800S just to try it with the Vio. Now just burn in for 40 hours and I am watching the NFL on season pass and man, sounds like I am AT the game. I will try music maybe tomorrow. I have also gotten a Labkable power cord that will be deliver today here at the house to go with the Vio V220. I know this is the V281 thread so just dropping in to say the lovefest is in high swing here this amp just sound so awesome!!!


----------



## zhgutov

sahmen said:


> "Switching between “Pre“ and “Post“
> is effected via software:
> Press and hold the “LINE“ pushbutton
> for about two seconds until the green
> ...


 
 You need to push the LINE button for about two seconds, _then you can select between pre and post fader by pressing XLR or DIG_.
 You need to push the LINE button for about two seconds again to finish.


----------



## sahmen

zhgutov said:


> You need to push the LINE button for about two seconds, _then you can select between pre and post fader by pressing XLR or DIG_.
> You need to push the LINE button for about two seconds again to finish.


 
 Thanks for the tutorial... It was my fault... I didn't realize I had to push the XLR too, so no matter what I did, it was operating in the post fader mode.  It is working as it should now.  The Pre-fader position gives me a fixed volume level now, and the music sounds much much better, because now, I can feel the full effects of the dynamics, the instrument separation, the depth and the 3d layering of my Yggy's soundstage--Wonderful!


----------



## jjthorn

Hi project86,
  
I am about to return my Resonessence Labs DAC to have it upgraded to the Mirus Pro version.
  
 I normally listen to music through my DAC/Preamp/Amp/Speakers and have decided to extend my music listening with good quality headphones.
  
 I would be using my upgraded DAC with unbalanced outlets to Preamp/Amp/speakers and the balanced outlets to a new headphone amp.
  
 I listened to the HD800 headphones several years ago and was very impressed, although the HD800 and HD800 S are both in my price range, so I shall check out both.
  
 I am considering either the Auralic Taurus MKII or Violectric V281 Headphone Amplifiers which appear to work well with the HD800/HD800 S and when my DAC is returned to me I will audition both of them.
  
Selection of headphone cables appears very confusing, I will probably listen to the the stock cables for a while so I have some reference when auditioning replacement cables.
  
Have you arrived at an opinion on how the Mirus Pro DAC drives the V281?
  
If you have used the HD800 or HD800 S headphones with your Mirus Pro and V281 could you advise how the headphones compare?
  
Do you have the 2nd Volume Control Option and if so do you consider this an essential upgrade?


----------



## 3083joe

zhgutov said:


> If I use balanced source, the signal comes to the amplifiers as is without splitting, inverting, or something else.
> So, almost for sure, the noise is in phase and will be virtually subtracted. Maybe you're right in this case.
> Now I want to get the corresponding cables and make my own measurements to check that...
> 
> ...



My v281 with my ie800's works great. Gain at +6 no noise floor. Like my 800 S better but they are nearly 3 times the money.


----------



## 3083joe

jjthorn said:


> [COLOR=000000]Hi project86,[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can speaker on your dac as I'm using a turntable but the v281 is a beast pretty much a killer of most other headphones above and below my 800 S. Do not go 800 unless you mod them lacks bass and harsh highs. IMHO


----------



## zhgutov

3083joe said:


> My v281 with my ie800's works great. Gain at +6 no noise floor. Like my 800 S better but they are nearly 3 times the money.


 
 IE800 have 103 dB/mW, this is not as much as 115 or greater 
 But it is possible what some persons, which have the noise, have another problems (maybe bad power source, ground loops, etc.).
 It is also possible what the noise from the amp is "lower" because the SPL of the headphones is different at the different frequencies.
 Personally, I have no any noise in my setup, which I can hear.


----------



## jjthorn

Are there any optimum settings for the output volume of a DAC or V281 when connecting from the DAC to the balanced or un-balanced signal inputs on a V281?
  
 I could use the volume control on the DAC, but would use the channel balance control on the V281.
  
 My DAC produces maximum Balanced 4.6 Vrms @ 0dB Volume – Impedance 78 ohm and Un-balanced 2.3 Vrms @ 0dB Volume – Impedance 39 ohm.
  
 I will probably be using DAC and V281 with HD800 S headphones.
  
 If using a Resonessence Mirus Pro DAC with the V281 could anyone suggest suitable Balanced interconnects between the DAC and V281 (max 1.5m long cable)?
  
 Does the 128-step relay attenuator upgrade provide an increase in sound quality?
  
 Has anyone used the two unbalanced phone jacks as left and right channels Balanced mode by re-setting the internal jumpers?


----------



## scottcocoabeach

jjthorn said:


> Are there any optimum settings for the output volume of a DAC or V281 when connecting from the DAC to the balanced or un-balanced signal inputs on a V281?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would recommend reading up on the new Focal Elear and Mr Speakers Ether Flow and getting demos before you purchase HD800S. I have modded HD800's but based on early impressions one of the new offerings may be a better option depending on the sound signature you like. 

Based on most of the feedback if there is a sound difference between the volume controls it is very small. I have the remote control option and have been very happy with it.


----------



## zhgutov

jjthorn said:


> Are there any optimum settings for the output volume of a DAC or V281 when connecting from the DAC to the balanced or un-balanced signal inputs on a V281?
> 
> I could use the volume control on the DAC, but would use the channel balance control on the V281.
> 
> ...


 

 It is better to use the balanced connection everywhere in your case, because your DAC produces balanced signals, V281 is balanced, and your headphones may be connected to the balanced outputs.
 I use 4-pin XLR with the internal jumpers set to BAL. I don't use 6.3 mm outputs for that, but I tried both options (jumper settings) and in my oppinion the BAL setting produces slightly better scene. The difference is small, but I always prefer BAL option setting jumpers back and forth. But I think you can make this experiment by yourself and make your own decision 
 It would be interesting to me if you can share your impressions on that.


----------



## reklov

This is what Fried, CEO of Lake People says about optimal position of volume control on V800/850:

We thought a bit about this 3.5 dB headroom from Benchmark ...
Well, it is theroretically possible that because of the interpolation processes an overshoot may occur between two full-scale samples.
With 44.1 kHz sample rate this overshoot is as long as 23 microseconds ... with 96 kHz sample rate it is about 12 micro secondes and so on.
When its is longer (3 samples or more) there is no overshoot because it is integrated.
If this "long term overshoot" is really a problem for somebody we recommend the volume of DAC V800 / V850 to be turned to the 4 o´clock position which equals to about 2-3 dB attenuation = digital headroom as the volume is reduced before any interpolation respectively D/A conversion.
The more you attenuate the more digital headroom you will win - at the expense of reduced dynamic range.
Just another nice aspect from the digital volume control we never thought about before 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## reklov

If your buying any product of Violectric/Lake People, ask for their cables as well, I think they're very good value for money.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## project86

jjthorn said:


> Hi project86,
> 
> I am about to return my Resonessence Labs DAC to have it upgraded to the Mirus Pro version.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Mirus Pro is spectacular. I love it..... definitely worth the upgrade. It's the most excited I've been about a DAC in a long time.
  
 I still like the Taurus but if that's the sound you want (super neutral) I'd recommend the Cayin iHA-6 instead. It's smaller, significantly more affordable, has more power,  and sounds pretty much identical in terms of signature.
  
 V281 is better than both though, with a more "meaty" signature and presentation overall. Paired with Mirus Pro is crazy good.
  
 I use HD800 a lot, very familiar with the signature. I haven't had time to mess with HD800S yet. Whichever one you end up with, be sure to get a balanced cable if you go with V281.
  
 I have the relay volume upgrade and it adds a small degree of transparency. But honestly it's probably not worth the cost.... the regular volume is very nice too.


----------



## TonyNewman

project86 said:


> Mirus Pro is spectacular. I love it..... definitely worth the upgrade. It's the most excited I've been about a DAC in a long time.
> 
> I still like the Taurus but if that's the sound you want (super neutral) I'd recommend the Cayin iHA-6 instead. It's smaller, significantly more affordable, has more power,  and sounds pretty much identical in terms of signature.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd go further and call the Taurus Mk2 somewhat bright and thin sounding. Paired with the HD800, or even the HD800S, caused me some discomfit. Putting a bright-ish and somewhat thin sounding amp with a bright and thin headphone doesn't work for me. Unless you are a massive treble head I would avoid that pairing like the plague. V281, being neutral-warm, works MUCH better with neutral / neutral-bright headphones IMHO. I would pair the Taurus with darker headphones, if that were your thing, like the Audeze range.
  
 +1 on the "meaty" sound signature of the V281. I don't know how Violectric do it, but it makes the V281 sound rather "tube-like" while retaining all the detail and dynamics of a high end solid state amp. It also has plenty of power to drive the HE6 or anything else. I have an excellent custom 300B tube amp and the V281 has rendered it almost irrelevant. I use it occasionally for the glow - but SQ-wise there isn't much it does that the V281 doesn't do better.


----------



## Smileyko

Hey guys and gals friends of Vio. I just went to the HiFi show here in Saigon yesterday and picked up the Chord 2Qute DAC. My HD800s has now over 150 hours on them and the sound with the Vio is so much better then the Mojo driving it it's like night and day. Cheers.


----------



## 3083joe

zhgutov said:


> It is better to use the balanced connection everywhere in your case, because your DAC produces balanced signals, V281 is balanced, and your headphones may be connected to the balanced outputs.
> I use 4-pin XLR with the internal jumpers set to BAL. I don't use 6.3 mm outputs for that, but I tried both options (jumper settings) and in my oppinion the BAL setting produces slightly better scene. The difference is small, but I always prefer BAL option setting jumpers back and forth. But I think you can make this experiment by yourself and make your own decision
> It would be interesting to me if you can share your impressions on that.



Are you talking jumpers in v281 or dac?


----------



## zhgutov

3083joe said:


> Are you talking jumpers in v281 or dac?


 

 I am talking about jumpers inside V281, which may be used to change the mapping for 6.3 jacks.


----------



## 3083joe

zhgutov said:


> I am talking about jumpers inside V281, which may be used to change the mapping for 6.3 jacks.



Thanks


----------



## jjthorn

Thanks for the advice reklov, they appear very good XLR interconnects.
  
Does the selection of balanced interconnects from DAC to headphone amp determine the quality of the headphone cable that can be used? 
  
Would the Violectric XLR Audio Premium interconnects between my DAC and headphone amp degrade sound quality from a high quality silver litz headphone cable?


----------



## reklov

Sorry, I'm no expert, I just read a lot about Violectric and decided they offer a good value for money on all their products. They sent me a long introduction about their cables (in German), and I think they're good enough for me - I use stock OFC cables for my HP. There seems to be no limit to what you can spend on cables, but for me it's the whole system that counts. I paid roughly the same price each for DAC, AMP and HP and 5% of their total price for these cables. In short if you have a great DAC, AMP and HP, you maybe can also spend more money on cables, though after reading and listening for some time, I think less on USB connection, a little more on the XLR cable, and maybe most on the HP cable. I bought a silver cable for my IEMs (crystal cable next, 700 USD) and never regretted it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jjthorn

The advice and comments provided by members on Head-Fi are extremely useful for someone like me who has to date only used speakers and has very limited knowledge of using headphones.
  
I will get my DAC back in about 4 weeks so will not be able to audition V281 through DAC for a while, although it appears a real bargain at the price. 
  
I would be interested in any opinions as to sound quality from V281 if any one is using the V281 with power amplifier/speakers. 
  
I could replace my excellent pre-amp with the V281 or connect the V281 to pre-amp unbalanced out (signal would not travel through pre-amp circuitry) with straight through signal to V281.
  
 I was advised by my DAC manufacturer that I can only connect both the V281 (balanced) and preamp (unbalanced) at the same time to my DAC outputs if neither puts noise back into the line.
  
I do not understand what puts noise back into the line is.
  
Obviously when either the V281 or preamp is turned on, the other would be turned off.
  
Does the V281 put noise back into the line?
  
It would greatly simplify the setup of my system if my preamp and V281 could be connected directly to my DAC.


----------



## FumblingFoo

Hi everybody, new V281 / V850 combo owner here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I wish I could offer some detailed impressions upgrading from the Schiit Bifrost Uber / Lyr 2, but I'm both a newbie when it comes to impressions and don't have my AB switch in yet. I might better yet leave the impressions in the Lyr 2 thread because they'd be more useful there.
  
 Just a question: Would you guys consider the V281 / V850 an end-game setup? I was kinda disappointed that the V281 wasn't ranked more highly by others at the Big Sound 2015 event on Inner Fidelity.


----------



## TonyNewman

fumblingfoo said:


> ...
> 
> Just a question: Would you guys consider the V281 / V850 an end-game setup? I was kinda disappointed that the V281 wasn't ranked more highly by others at the Big Sound 2015 event on Inner Fidelity.


 
  
 Welcome to the world of hype and individual preferences that is HeadFi. About the only audio review or impression you can really trust is your own ears, listening to gear in your rig, in your environment, with your music. Unless you can get loaner equipment it is often not possible to do that without committing to a purchase, so we have to rely on the views of others quite often. That has been hit and miss for me, to say the least.
  
 I have found many of the Violectric haters out there, and they do exist, have heard the V281 using the cheapo DAC option that can be built into the unit. That isn't doing justice to the V281 amp. The amp section is very much a high end device and deserves pairing with a much better DAC unit. I haven't heard the V281 paired with the V850, but I have paired the V281 with the Auralic Vega / Hegel HD30 / Bricasti M1. Each time as I have stepped up my DAC that V281 has also lifted along with it.
  
 I have compared the V281 with the Auralic Taurus Mk2 and Simaudio 430HA (owned both) and I prefer the V281 by quite a margin. Is the V281 perfect? No - it can get *slightly* loose in the bass and a _*touch *_hard in the treble - not quite as smooth up top as I would prefer - but it sure as heck beats the pants off everything else I have tried. Taurus is technically great, but the sound signature is bright and thin - not so bad with Audeze type cans, but pretty awful with the HD800, for example. The 430HA has warmth and musicality, but sacrifices bags of detail, speed and punch to do it, leaving it with an overly polite and boring sound.
  
 V281 is also one of the few headamps around that can drive the HE6 with authority. 430HA can too. The Taurus cannot.
  
 You wouldn't have to search too hard to find a bunch of folks that disagree strongly with my impressions above, and that's OK. It all comes back to individual preferences and setups. Pair the Taurus with an Audeze headphone and a warmish DAC (V850?) and it might be a winner. "YMMV" rules.
  
 "End Game" gets thrown around quite a lot. A very subjective term. Only you can figure out what it means to you, and the biggest limiting factor is usually your budget. The Bricasti M1 is absolutely my "end game" DAC because to go further would involve spending crazy dollars that I don't have. My goal is to hook up the Ether Flow and Focal Utopia direct to the DAC XLR outputs and bypass a headamp altogether. That is "End Game" for me (if I can get it to work).
  
 Trust your ears and take the views of others (including me) with a large sack of salt.


----------



## fdg

@ jjthorn

 What you DAC manufacturer means is that it is critical to connect both devices to you DAC´s output(s) in a passiv way (y-adaptor).
 If one of them is unbalanced and the other is balanced it is even more critical.
 There are not many DACs in the market with dedicated drivers for both, balanced and unbalanced outputs to use them simultaneously.
 If you are looking for one: Violectric DAC V800 and V850 have !
  
 The simple solution to your problem is to connect your pre-amp to the V281 as it offers balanced and unbalanced line-outputs.
 Further more these can be de/activated by means of a front panel button and they can be configured to a fixed level (unattenuated from the souce) or an attenuated level (with the front attenuator).
 Many users love the V281 to also act as a premium pre-amp - so maybe your current pre-amp is needless  afterwards because V281 can do it all.
 Just load the manual of V281 from the web site to learn more about the features V281 offers.
 Best regards
 Fried Reim (CEO of Lake People / Violectric)


----------



## jjthorn

fdg
  
Thanks for the advice Fried.
  
You mentioned using balanced and unbalanced outputs simultaneously.
  
I do not want to use balanced and unbalanced outlet simultaneously.
  
Although the balanced cable (to V281) and unbalanced cable (to preamp) would be permanently connected to the DAC, only one of these would be operating at one time: -
  

 V281 switched on operating and preamp switched off not operating.
  
 Preamp switched on operating and V281 switched off not operating.
  
 If the above is not possible I can try each option in my previous posting to see which provides the best outcome.


----------



## FumblingFoo

tonynewman said:


> Welcome to the world of hype and individual preferences that is HeadFi. About the only audio review or impression you can really trust is your own ears, listening to gear in your rig, in your environment, with your music. Unless you can get loaner equipment it is often not possible to do that without committing to a purchase, so we have to rely on the views of others quite often. That has been hit and miss for me, to say the least.
> 
> I have found many of the Violectric haters out there, and they do exist, have heard the V281 using the cheapo DAC option that can be built into the unit. That isn't doing justice to the V281 amp. The amp section is very much a high end device and deserves pairing with a much better DAC unit. I haven't heard the V281 paired with the V850, but I have paired the V281 with the Auralic Vega / Hegel HD30 / Bricasti M1. Each time as I have stepped up my DAC that V281 has also lifted along with it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, at the very least it sounds great to my ears, thx for the reply Tony 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, I feel very happy now to have chosen the V281. To my embarrassment and frustration, its unfortunate that either because of my "newbieness" or cheap testing setup (I have a rather poorly implemented AB switch with a lot of background hiss, I couldn't find anything bettter), I can't hear barely any difference in sonic quality between either of my amps and even the on-board audio of my computer. My ears just aren't trained, and all I end up noticing myself is that everything sounds good enough to my ears that I enjoy all the same the music playing through my headphones :/. So, I reckon that at least for me the V281 is an end-game solution because it has all the features I need and I doubt that even if i bought a $20,000 amp I'd hear a difference.


----------



## Fegefeuer




----------



## mulder01

fumblingfoo said:


> I can't hear barely any difference in sonic quality between either of my amps and even the on-board audio of my computer. My ears just aren't trained, and all I end up noticing myself is that everything sounds good enough to my ears that I enjoy all the same the music playing through my headphones :/. So, I reckon that at least for me the V281 is an end-game solution because it has all the features I need and I doubt that even if i bought a $20,000 amp I'd hear a difference.


 
  
 Sometimes I feel the same way - where I wonder if even the v281 was an overkill - even more than is needed for an end game setup, but I still like it for other reasons like the fact that I can drive studio monitors off it if I choose, it's a fairly neutral sound so it should pair well with just about any headphone, it's got more than enough power to plug in anything I have, or anything I choose to buy in the future, it has a nice small footprint, not too many bells and whistles and things to go wrong, it looks extremely well made if you take off the cover (like all Violectric stuff), Fried offers really good after sales support, I'm sure there are other reasons I can't think of at the moment, but I look at amps costing double the price or more and just don't see any reason to "upgrade".   The only reason I can think of to buy another amp would be if you specifically wanted a tube amp, but as far as solid state goes, I can't see me ever wanting anything more.


----------



## TonyNewman

Overkill is good kill.
  
 V281 is one of the few headamps that can drive the HE6 with real authority. Not many can do that.


----------



## project86

fumblingfoo said:


> Hi everybody, new V281 / V850 combo owner here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 As was already eloquently mentioned by TonyNewman above - it's all subjective. You can read reviews and forum discussion until your eyeballs melt and still not come any closer to some objective truth. That said, I do recommend finding some reviewers and forum folks who seem to hear similarly to you, and then following them more closely than others.
  
 As one example: Many people love the 430HA. Personally I do not... the V281 is far better imho. If you read the Big Sound 2015 you'll see that some very much enjoy the V281, and others don't have much to say about it. I suspect some were just overwhelmed by the amount of gear and only had time to focus on the stuff they found most interesting. But I'm sure there were some who did try it and felt underwhelmed. That's just how things go.


----------



## fdg

@ jjthorn
  
 Passive electronic circuitry will still be present, independent if you gear is switched on or off.
 This will be no safe solution to your problem.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

jjthorn said:


> [COLOR=000000]fdg[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I split my DAC output to my V281 and Schiit Jotenheim and I have to have both AMPs on simultaneously or I get distortion on the Jotenheim. I believe the reasons for it are explained earlier in this thread. I'm in the habit of always turning them both on most of the time. I can have the Jotenheim off and just the V281 on and I don't get any distortion.


----------



## sandalaudio

fumblingfoo said:


> Just a question: Would you guys consider the V281 / V850 an end-game setup? I was kinda disappointed that the V281 wasn't ranked more highly by others at the Big Sound 2015 event on Inner Fidelity.


 
  


tonynewman said:


> Trust your ears and take the views of others (including me) with a large sack of salt.


 
  
 Yes. Don't trust the reviews. Just listen to the V281 and trust your ears. Then write a review. Then tell people not to trust the reviews! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously, I ended up buying my V281 after listening to so many headphone amps over and over.
 I am a totally happy owner, but at the same time, I can't say anything flamboyant about the V281, because it just sounds so "right" and "normal".
  
 I guess a good amp is something that sounds so normal that I don't get annoyed or fed up with it after countless hours of use.
 Some other fancy amps have their own strong character that can turn lame music sound exciting, but it ends up being a one-trick-pony after a while.
  
 By the way I also really liked the Moon 430HAD  (nice package with a capable onboard DAC). I would have struggled to pick a preference if it was available back when I bought the V281, though V281 is a lot cheaper so that makes it a winner.
  
 The new V280 looks great too, if you don't need the extra input/output and remote control volume option.


----------



## zappazappazappa

New to this thread. Considering the V281  as a replacement amp for Sennheiser HDVD amp for use with Chord Hugo TT as dac (much prefer balanced headphone use to single ended). Will be used with Sennheiser HD800/Oppo PM-1 and Ether Flow's (when they arrive). Any opinions V281 vs Sennheiser HDVD amp. Anyone used V281 with Chord Hugo or Hugo TT? Impressions?
 One slight concern. The Inner Fidelity review which sparked my interest mentioned that it was sensitive to ground loop issues, and I noticed in the manual that it is possible to alter the earthing arrangements. Anyone have any hum issues with this amp?


----------



## jjthorn

fdg
Scottcocoabeach
  
  
Shows my limited knowledge, I assumed the problem was caused when one unit was operating and other one was turned off.
  
As I do not want to damage my DAC, headphone amp or preamp I will take a safe option either using the headphone amp to supply headphones and speakers or connecting headphone amp from preamp.
  
Thanks to you both for the advice.


----------



## Badas

Thanks to my mate Tony (a valued member on this forum) I'm now the proud owner of a V281.

What a stunning amp.


----------



## mulder01

^Nice setup!  
 How do tubes go as a fertilizer?


----------



## zhgutov

badas said:


> Thanks to my mate Tony (a valued member on this forum) I'm now the proud owner of a V281.
> 
> What a stunning amp.


 
  
 How this headphones sound?)


----------



## NZheadcase

badas said:


> Thanks to my mate Tony (a valued member on this forum) I'm now the proud owner of a V281.
> 
> What a stunning amp.


 
  
 Indeed it is. Does this mean your Oppo HA-1 has gone bye-bye?


----------



## project86

Very nice!
  
 Is that a pair of identical Oppo players I see there? What's the story?


----------



## Badas

zhgutov said:


> How this headphones sound?)




Auralic Vega > V281 > LCD3C sounds sublime. Brang a smile to my face all afternoon. 



nzheadcase said:


> Indeed it is. Does this mean your Oppo HA-1 has gone bye-bye?




That was the plan. Unfortunately the V281 started faulting after a few hours use. So I will need to get it looked at. I was going to sell the Oppo however I will hold off on that for a while. 

When the V281 got warm after a few hours use the Head and XLR LED would flash and the music would stop. After flashing it will go back to normal. Like the unit was rebooting. Once it starts doing that it would carry on doing it intermittently. It's like a power spike and the unit reboots.
Has anyone else had this?



project86 said:


> Very nice!
> 
> Is that a pair of identical Oppo players I see there? What's the story?




Yes. Two identical Oppo BDP103D's. Darbee versions both zone changeable. 
Blu-rays zoning is harder to crack than DVD. You can only set it to one particular zone at a time. Although I can change the zone to both of my player by hitting a sequence of buttons I find that too much work. So I prefer two players. One set to Zone A the other to Zone B. Then I just open and use whatever player the disc is labeled up. Easy.

It comes in handy for audio as well. The top unit is setup for multichannel SACD, DVDAudio and blu-audio. The bottom one is set to do those formats in 2 channel for headphone listening. 

Full story here:

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Badas


----------



## zhgutov

badas said:


> Auralic Vega > V281 > LCD3C sounds sublime. Brang a smile to my face all afternoon.





> Unfortunately the V281 started faulting after a few hours use. When the V281 got warm after a few hours use the Head and XLR LED would flash and the music would stop. After flashing it will go back to normal. Like the unit was rebooting. Once it starts doing that it would carry on doing it intermittently. It's like a power spike and the unit reboots.
> Has anyone else had this?


 
  
 My question was about headphones from your photo. Is it AudioQuest Nighthawk?
 Hmm.. Why your LCD-3 is "C"? =)
  
 The behaviour you described for V281 is strange. Looks like the fault. My instance never behave this way.


----------



## Badas

zhgutov said:


> My question was about headphones from your photo. Is it AudioQuest Nighthawk?
> Hmm.. Why your LCD-3 is "C"? =)
> 
> The behaviour you described for V281 is strange. Looks like the fault. My instance never behave this way.




Yes. Those are the AudioQuest NightHawks. I really like them. However they are very polarising. Either love or hate. They treat treble very differently than most HP's. That's what I like most about them. On the flip side some members find the treble veiled. It depends on your poison. I don't mind and actually prefer that the treble doesn't go so high.

My LCD-3's are the older version. Before they added the fazor. So they are commonly referred to as a LCD-3C. C for classic version.


----------



## zhgutov

Today I measured V281 again and realized what I was completely wrong.
 The ground-lift jumpers inside both V800 and V281 were set to GND (general and XLR).
 That was a mistake _in my case_. The manual tells the following about this jumpers:
  
 "Unfortunately there is no general recommendation how to solve hum and jitter problems - or even minimize them.
 The best way to succeed is to check different options"
  
 So, I changed the jumper settings (both general and XLR) inside both units to LIFT.
 I also disconnected the shield of the cable (pin 1) from the case of the connector, according to manual.
  
 This changed the whole picture. This is the old graph:
  

  
 This is the new one:
  

  
 Pregain for both graphs is set to -12 dB in V281.
 Pregain still affects the noise floor.
  
 Now I think it is possible to minimise or eliminate the noise spuria measured by innerfidelity, at least for balanced connection.
 Original post with the old measurements: http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/2250#post_12836128


----------



## PetarCV

Guys, how would you describe the difference between the sonic signatures of Violectric and Simaudio Moon. I've noticed some people here saying they prefer V281/220 to 430HAD, so I was wondering if someone can point out the divergences in their respective sound characteristics. Is Mood overly warm and smooth compared to Vio, and not as neutral and transparent? I haven't heard any Vio amp/dac yet, but I did recently audition the 230HAD (as well as 430HAD briefly before), and I do find it very smooth and full-sounding (rich mids and lots of bass). Are V200, V220 and V281 generally less warm than the Moon amps?


----------



## sandalaudio

petarcv said:


> Guys, how would you describe the difference between the sonic signatures of Violectric and Simaudio Moon. I've noticed some people here saying they prefer V281/220 to 430HAD, so I was wondering if someone can point out the divergences in their respective sound characteristics. Is Mood overly warm and smooth compared to Vio, and not as neutral and transparent? I haven't heard any Vio amp/dac yet, but I did recently audition the 230HAD (as well as 430HAD briefly before), and I do find it very smooth and full-sounding (rich mids and lots of bass). Are V200, V220 and V281 generally less warm than the Moon amps?


 
  
 I really liked them both, and if they were the same price (without DAC), then I would really struggle to decide which one.
  
 I ended up buying the V281 because it felt more like a good all-round revealing headphone amp that responds well to the choice of source component and headphones you are using. In that regard, I thought the V281 is powerful but characterless, in a good way.
  
 This worked well for me, because I prefer my amp to be as invisible as possible, and rather play around with the sonic colour by using a different DAC (or different headphones, obviously). I wanted to avoid the situation where the amp colours the sound too much, which is usually a sign of inadequacy.
  
 I personally really like the Moon as an all-in-one unit with the DAC module. It felt like a good complete package with a certain sense of character. I thoroughly enjoyed it in both S/PDIF and USB input. It's also been very solid and glitch-free even for DSD256 or PCM352.8kHz, which means they must have got the design right (a lot of DACs fail this despite what they claim).
  
 Basically Moon feels powerful yet more velvet-ish and smooth, a little bit more mid-range tone focused than V281. I appreciate every note being smooth and well-rounded, without becoming edgy or honky, but the 3D projection and localisation of sources is not as precise as the V281. I wouldn't call Moon a high speed, analytical amp, but more like an established high-end setup that someone will buy simply because of how it sounds. Some people prefer a brighter, more edgier amp because it gives a perception of being "revealing", but that gets old after a while. Really good amps like V281 or Moon can have all the detail without sounding forward and bright.
  
 I liked the V281 better as an analogue only amp. Moon using analogue line input (i.e. without the DAC) tended to add some character of the Moon amp itself, and masks out the differences in the source component (what DAC you are using upstream). It always sounded like I am using the Moon, which might end up becoming annoying after a while.
  
 I think some people want the amp to be heavily coloured (something that makes their usual headphones become exceptional), while others prefer the amp to be as invisible as possible. I wouldn't call the Moon to be heavily coloured (certainly compared to the other amps I tried), but it is more in that direction while V281 is the latter.


----------



## project86

I agree with the above. My review of the Moon will go live eventually (already submitted at Part Time Audiophile) but for now I'll just say it does seem more colored than the V281. I prefer the Violectric sound signature which is slightly warm and smooth while retaining a sense of clarity and excitement, and not losing significant details. The 430HA seems a little boring overall.... I do enjoy it plenty but not enough considering the price. Wonderful build quality though, with dynamite volume solution. And the optional DAC truly is exceptional, much better than the Violectric option (which is priced accordingly so I guess it makes sense).


----------



## TonyNewman

project86 said:


> ...The 430HA seems a little boring overall.... I do enjoy it plenty but not enough considering the price. Wonderful build quality though, with dynamite volume solution. ...


 
  
 Sold mine after about 6 months. Got a V281 and been happy ever since.
  
 430HA has fantastic build quality and great features - but that can't save it if the sound is so warmed over that the speed, slam and dynamics get castrated. I also think that detail suffers too, but many will disagree with me on that.
  
 I like to think of the V281 as combining most of the best features of my 2 previous amps (Auralic Taurus Mk2 and 430HA) in one package:

Technical agility of the Taurus - speed, punch, detail, dynamics
Power of the 430HA - can make the HE6 dance
A splash of the 430HA warmth and musicality - but not overdone (as I think the 430HA is). The V281 is a neutral amp with a touch of warmth IMHO.
  
 If only it looked more like the GS-X Mk2, and less like a shoe box with knobs stuck on it, it would probably have a much greater market share 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 A very under-rated piece of kit, I think.


----------



## PetarCV

Thanks for your very insightful replies, sandalaudio, project86, and TonyNewman. I definitely noticed the prominent sound signature of the Moon amps that you guys pointed out. The warm, smooth tonality of the Moon seems appealing to me, but I also wonder if I'd like it as much in the long run or whether I'd prefer the more subtly warm Violectric.


----------



## hypersonic club

Just received my V281 yesterday with the 128 relay and remote… This was an upgrade from an Oppo HA-1 amp. I am using a set of Sennheiser HD 800 phones with the balanced out. The V281 definitely restores a lot of the fun and musicality that was missing from the Oppo (which now sounds way too aggressive and forward by comparison) and tames the treble issues with the HD 800. With the Oppo, I was always struggling a bit to get lost in the music, but the V281 is smooth and just laid back enough to get me where I want to be. With this combo, you can focus on the details of individual instruments or let it all wash over you. Sorry if I’m not able to present my impressions in more technical terms, but that’s what I am hearing. And I like it enough to claim I've found my endgame.


----------



## 13713

hypersonic club said:


> Just received my V281 yesterday with the 128 relay and remote… This was an upgrade from an Oppo HA-1 amp. I am using a set of Sennheiser HD 800 phones with the balanced out. The V281 definitely restores a lot of the fun and musicality that was missing from the Oppo (which now sounds way too aggressive and forward by comparison) and tames the treble issues with the HD 800. With the Oppo, I was always struggling a bit to get lost in the music, but the V281 is smooth and just laid back enough to get me where I want to be. With this combo, you can focus on the details of individual instruments or let it all wash over you. Sorry if I’m not able to present my impressions in more technical terms, but that’s what I am hearing. And I like it enough to claim I've found my endgame.




Half to see that you like it. Truly solid state end game for me.


----------



## sahmen

Any reliable sq comparisons of the V281 and the Schiit Ragnarok that anyone can point me to?  I'm a proud owner of the V281 (and the Yggy), but I saw some offhand remarks comparing the two (v281 and Ragnarok) that I would like to verify via a more authoritative review. On the other hand, first hand comparative impressions, as well as any related helpful thoughts would also be appreciated.  Thanks.


----------



## Badas

hypersonic club said:


> Just received my V281 yesterday with the 128 relay and remote… This was an upgrade from an Oppo HA-1 amp. I am using a set of Sennheiser HD 800 phones with the balanced out. The V281 definitely restores a lot of the fun and musicality that was missing from the Oppo (which now sounds way too aggressive and forward by comparison) and tames the treble issues with the HD 800. With the Oppo, I was always struggling a bit to get lost in the music, but the V281 is smooth and just laid back enough to get me where I want to be. With this combo, you can focus on the details of individual instruments or let it all wash over you. Sorry if I’m not able to present my impressions in more technical terms, but that’s what I am hearing. And I like it enough to claim I've found my endgame.




I've come to V281 from the Oppo HA-1 as well. No contest. V281 is a different level. I never did get comfy with the Oppo tho. It was just off. 

Unfortunately my V281 is on its way back to Germany (Lake People). It has some kind of overloading fault. I should be back to the Violectric party in a few weeks.


----------



## Mist3rLao

Anyone paired these with the Focal Utopia? Your thoughts?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I don't know why it wouldn't work as the V281 powers through voltage swing hungry beasts like the HD800, T1 with ease and also through current demons like the HE-6. Everything driven with authority and focus. 
  
 The Utopia is less "imperfect" than the HD800 and that thing is driven very well, though I'd never use a stock HD800 anymore. Why should it not work?


----------



## Mist3rLao

I agree, but I am just wondering how the synergy is between the two.


----------



## sandalaudio

mist3rlao said:


> I agree, but I am just wondering how the synergy is between the two.


 
  
 The fact that the official Focal demo booth at CanJam chose Naim NAC as the amp worthy of driving the Utopia, means that it must have the best "synergy"...
 Oh by the way those two brands are owned by the same company.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 http://www.modernhifi.de/focal-utopia-elear-listen/
  
 Anyhow I would be curious to hear how the Utopia sounds, and the V281 is my first pick for that job.


----------



## Fegefeuer

very hard to get a loaner for these unfortunately (for me)


----------



## Mist3rLao

Can anyone suggest a good cd player that would neatly stack on top of the V281?


----------



## RichardJefan

The smallest CD player I would recommend is the new Marantz HD-CD1. It has the same depth as the V281. But of course the Violectric would have to sit on top.


----------



## Mist3rLao

RichardJefan Thank you, will check it out.


----------



## project86

For small CD players, check out this thread. Some of them are transport only but many are also full CD players. You might skip the initial few pages as those older models are hard to find now.


----------



## Mist3rLao

@project86 The Olasonic Nano CD1, at 6x6", should stack nicely with the V281/V850. This is exactly what i was looking for! Plus, your response was very timely, I was able to score the last readily available stock that is shipped and sold by Amazon. THANKS A LOT!


----------



## project86

mist3rlao said:


> @project86 The Olasonic Nano CD1, at 6x6", should stack nicely with the V281/V850. This is exactly what i was looking for! Plus, your response was very timely, I was able to score the last readily available stock that is shipped and sold by Amazon. THANKS A LOT!


 
  
  
 Great, hope it works out well for you. Olasonic makes nice looking stuff, always wanted to try it. There's a matching DAC with headphone out, and also an integrated DAC with speaker amp for desktop monitors. Pretty neat stuff that hasn't had much exposure that I've noticed.
  
 I came close to buying the CD1 a number of times but never quite pulled the trigger. Enjoy, and please post pics of your stack when you can!


----------



## Mist3rLao

@project86 Will definitely do! Thanks again!


----------



## Bones13

Holy Carp Batman! The V281 just arrived today. I have dual XLRs on my HD800, and having to use an adapter to 1/4" to listen. Previous amp HeadRoom Balanced Ultra headphone amp.
  
 I have been cruising to upgrade my office system. I prefer not to have tubes here at the office, I was looking at the Mjolnir II, and settled on the V281 due to the great reviews, and being 1K less than the GSX. I already have a BHSE/SR009 at home. Keeping the W4S DAC2 -DSD for now.
  
 I have ordered a Focal Utopia with balanced Silver Dragon cable from Drew, so I have yet another jaw dropping moment coming I suspect. If not, I will just get a decent cable for my aging HD800s.
  
 The HD800s sound fresh and new with this amp, probably due to the increased power available. Currently listening at the 10 o'clock position.
  
 Still a bit heavy and thick compared to the BHSE/SR009, but then I would expect so. We will see what proper balanced cables and the similarly priced dynamic headphones do with a burned in V281.
  
 No clue when the Utopia's are coming in stock at Moon-Audio.


----------



## Badas

I miss my V281. It has just made it to Germany. Hopefully they fix and get it coming back soon.

 My mate Tony has been playing around with the V281 as a pre-amp into a XLR harness. Then using a Ether Flow that way. He says it sounds even better. I will likely try that as well.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I miss my V281. It has just made it to Germany. Hopefully they fix and get it coming back soon.
> 
> My mate Tony has been playing around with the V281 as a pre-amp into a XLR harness. Then using a Ether Flow that way. He says it sounds even better. I will likely try that as well.


 
  
 To expand on that, I was getting some treble roughness on the V281 using the balanced output. Nothing huge, just a bit much with the Ether Flow - which is a touch on the bright side IMHO.
  
 I tried running the V281 via the XLR harness I normally use to direct drive headphones from my DAC - using the V281 in preamp mode - and the treble roughness went away. Just sounds smoother and "better" to my ears. Slightly less output power than the balanced headphone output, but still plenty of grunt to drive the HE6 without having to adjust the switches on the back of the unit.
  
 Wondering if others have tried the using the V281 in preamp mode to drive headphones, and if they have, if they have found that it works for them too.


----------



## sandalaudio

tonynewman said:


> Wondering if others have tried the using the V281 in preamp mode to drive headphones, and if they have, if they have found that it works for them too.


 
  
 Not using the V281's power amp and just letting the rear line level opamp to do the driving job is essentially like turning the V281 into a good old fashioned O2 headphone amp.
  
 I'm not sure what the output impedance of the rear line outs are (it's not written in the manual), but for a low impedance headphones like Ether Flow (23 ohms), I'm sure it could sound a bit more warm and loose (less harsh), which is not a bad thing, particularly for something like Ether Flow which might be better to let it ring naturally without much damping.
  
 It's kind of like saying a car with a small engine feels more interesting because you can really feel the steep hills, and doesn't respond as well to the foot on the pedal.


----------



## TonyNewman

sandalaudio said:


> Not using the V281's power amp and just letting the rear line level opamp to do the driving job is essentially like turning the V281 into a good old fashioned O2 headphone amp.
> 
> I'm not sure what the output impedance of the rear line outs are (it's not written in the manual), but for a low impedance headphones like Ether Flow (23 ohms), I'm sure it could sound a bit more warm and loose (less harsh), which is not a bad thing, particularly for something like Ether Flow which might be better to let it ring naturally without much damping.
> 
> It's kind of like saying a car with a small engine feels more interesting because you can really feel the steep hills, and doesn't respond as well to the foot on the pedal.


 
  
 Thanks for that - makes it a bit more sensible why I can hear the differences that I can hear.
  
 It does work out better with the Flow - it has a bright edge to it up top that can grate with a less than baby bottom smooth treble.


----------



## Fegefeuer

bones13 said:


> Holy Carp Batman! The V281 just arrived today. I have dual XLRs on my HD800, and having to use an adapter to 1/4" to listen. Previous amp HeadRoom Balanced Ultra headphone amp.
> 
> I have been cruising to upgrade my office system. I prefer not to have tubes here at the office, I was looking at the Mjolnir II, and settled on the V281 due to the great reviews, and being 1K less than the GSX. I already have a BHSE/SR009 at home. Keeping the W4S DAC2 -DSD for now.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 One thing the Mjolnir 2 really does well is slam and kick, however the rest did not stand out positively in comparison. For instance the soundstages is really lacking depth, being elliptic. Treble is less refined and the overall impression lesser in detail. Imaging and soundstage are truly grand with the V281 (HD800 modded, balanced), being bigger than the picture if that makes sense. I really love that. 
  
 If you're only at SE right now then you'll be in for a treat once you go fully balanced.


----------



## novicez1

Anyone here tried to compare this against the newer V280? I've been contemplating to get one together with my 800S, but I feel the extra features the V281 has are unnecessary for me and would be more than willing to give them up to save some cash. But as all things in this hobby, sound quality cuts through everything. Thanks!


----------



## 13713

novicez1 said:


> Anyone here tried to compare this against the newer V280? I've been contemplating to get one together with my 800S, but I feel the extra features the V281 has are unnecessary for me and would be more than willing to give them up to save some cash. But as all things in this hobby, sound quality cuts through everything. Thanks!




The balance out of the 281 is nice. If you don't need it then no reason to get it. 

I view the 281 as end game ss so it was worth it for me.


----------



## JeffMann

13713 said:


> The balance out of the 281 is nice. If you don't need it then no reason to get it.
> 
> I view the 281 as end game ss so it was worth it for me.


 

 I think that balanced output is essential, and not just nice! I find it to sound much better than my V281's SE output.
  
 Jeff.


----------



## thomascrown

13713 said:


> The balance out of the 281 is nice. If you don't need it then no reason to get it.
> 
> I view the 281 as end game ss so it was worth it for me.


 
 v280 has the balanced output, but it misses the balanced preamp output. The v220 is the s.e. version.


----------



## 13713

jeffmann said:


> I think that balanced output is essential, and not just nice! I find it to sound much better than my V281's SE output.
> 
> Jeff.




I agree but many people are fine with single input. On everything I went balanced with my HD800 I won't ever go back.


----------



## novicez1

The V280 also has balanced output. I'm only concerned if whether paying a few hundred more bucks with the V281 will yield "better" sound quality than the V280 when comparing their balanced output.


----------



## Badas

novicez1 said:


> The V280 also has balanced output. I'm only concerned if whether paying a few hundred more bucks with the V281 will yield "better" sound quality than the V280 when comparing their balanced output.


 

 Yeah it will. V281 is like having two V200's squished together. So 4 individual amps. It's like a amp on each pin of balanced mode.
  
 V280 has just two amps. So a amp for each side. A amp for every two pins in balanced mode.
  
 I've listened to the V181 and have a V281. Similar sound signatures but the V281 is a lot more holographic.


----------



## thomascrown

badas said:


> Yeah it will. V281 is like having two V200's squished together. So 4 individual amps. It's like a amp on each pin of balanced mode.
> 
> V280 has just two amps. So a amp for each side. A amp for every two pins in balanced mode.
> 
> I've listened to the V181 and have a V281. Similar sound signatures but the V281 is a lot more holographic.


 
 Nope, v280 has 4 v200 based  amps
 http://www.lake-people.de/produktdetails/HPA_V280.html


----------



## Badas

thomascrown said:


> Nope, v280 has 4 v200 based  amps
> http://www.lake-people.de/produktdetails/HPA_V280.html


 

 Well crap. Teach me a lesson. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That is cool. It will likely sound very similar.


----------



## thomascrown

badas said:


> Well crap. Teach me a lesson.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I wish I had them side by side for a comparison: I received my v280 as replacement of a (defective) v281 for office use, unfortunately I regret that choice, the v280 is only thinner but still too big for an office desktop and to my memory sounds a little more congested, more with the jotunheim out, it doesn't offer any advantage for the price and offers even less options.  
 I wouldn't consider it anymore as a cheaper option to the v281.


----------



## Badas

One thing to keep in mind with the V281 is the pre-out. My mate swears it is even smoother connecting a HP using a XLR harness.
 Something I haven't tried yet. But will.
  
 V280 doesn't have a pre-out so you wouldn't be able to do it. Might be something worthwhile especially with the HD800s.


----------



## Smileyko

novicez1 said:


> Anyone here tried to compare this against the newer V280? I've been contemplating to get one together with my 800S, but I feel the extra features the V281 has are unnecessary for me and would be more than willing to give them up to save some cash. But as all things in this hobby, sound quality cuts through everything. Thanks!


 

 I bought a lots of gear this as a rookie to the party. I did get the V280 just 10 weeks ago. Since then I have gotten the 2Qute and the 800S to go with it. Then the Grado GS 2000e showed up 12 days ago in my line up. I am all SE and I can tell you even if you drive the V280 with the Mojo it still sounds great with the 800S. I am not going to re cable and staying with the SE setup so I think the 280 is just a tank of a machine.


----------



## thomascrown

badas said:


> One thing to keep in mind with the V281 is the pre-out. My mate swears it is even smoother connecting a HP using a XLR harness.
> Something I haven't tried yet. But will.
> 
> V280 doesn't have a pre-out so you wouldn't be able to do it. Might be something worthwhile especially with the HD800s.


 
 sorry to correct you again, but the v280 has a pre out, only single ended though, not both s.e. and balanced as the v281.


----------



## TonyNewman

Dono - give it up. You 0 for 2 and counting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 As the poster (sandalaudio) with a much bigger brain than me was kind enough to spell out above, the preamp mode on the V281 has good reason to sound different than the balanced headphone output. "warm and loose" is exactly right. Also my favorite attributes in females, but that is another story for another forum.
  
  
  
 Originally Posted by *sandalaudio* 


  
  
 Not using the V281's power amp and just letting the rear line level opamp to do the driving job is essentially like turning the V281 into a good old fashioned O2 headphone amp.
  
 I'm not sure what the output impedance of the rear line outs are (it's not written in the manual), but for a low impedance headphones like Ether Flow (23 ohms), I'm sure it could sound a bit more warm and loose (less harsh), which is not a bad thing, particularly for something like Ether Flow which might be better to let it ring naturally without much damping.
  
 It's kind of like saying a car with a small engine feels more interesting because you can really feel the steep hills, and doesn't respond as well to the foot on the pedal.


----------



## Badas

thomascrown said:


> sorry to correct you again, but the v280 has a pre out, only single ended though, not both s.e. and balanced as the v281.




Can you put a HP harness on single ended? I thought you could only do it on XLR (I'm not sure on this).


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Dono - give it up. You 0 for 2 and counting :wink_face:
> 
> As the poster (sandalaudio) with a much bigger brain than me was kind enough to spell out above, the preamp mode on the V281 has good reason to sound different than the balanced headphone output. "warm and loose" is exactly right. Also my favorite attributes in females, but that is another story for another forum.
> 
> ...






Yeah. Not doing well today. A bit of a dork head actually.

I am looking forward to giving the XLR harness a go tho. It sounds (pun intended) very interesting.


----------



## Fegefeuer

thomascrown said:


> I wish I had them side by side for a comparison: I received my v280 as replacement of a (defective) v281 for office use, unfortunately I regret that choice, the v280 is only thinner but still too big for an office desktop and to my memory sounds a little more congested, more with the jotunheim out, it doesn't offer any advantage for the price and offers even less options.
> I wouldn't consider it anymore as a cheaper option to the v281.


 
  
 V280 pairs very well with the HD800, especially unmodded. Can't say the same for the Jotunheim which pairs very very well with the HD 650 though. 
  
 Yes, you have less soundstage and air with the V280 compared to the V281.


----------



## sandalaudio

I think V280 is a great amp, basically a V281 cut down to the fundamental core of why it sounds so good. Main reason for the reduced price is the fact that it's on a single printed circuit board (rather than a double-decker on V281).
  
 I personally don't regret buying the V281 because it does have some added bonuses that I really appreciate, such as the remote control volume and XLR preamp out.
  
 V281 is essentially acting as my preamp for my main speaker setup (XLR pre out to my Jeff Rowland power amp), so it does justify the high cost for me because I could get away with not having to buy another expensive preamp.
  
 If it is just for the sole purpose of headphones enjoyment on the desktop then V281 is probably a much more sensible option. The maximum output voltage is capped slightly for high impedance side on V280, but I would be happy that there is less chance of accidental death of precious headphones.


----------



## TokenGesture

Fried told me there was no discernible difference between them as headamps.


----------



## novicez1

fegefeuer said:


> Yes, you have less soundstage and air with the V280 compared to the V281.


 
  
 This is something I would really like confirmed. One last thing, how's the treble extension of the V281 compared to the V100/G109? I'm a little bit concerned because I've read reviews that the V220/V281 has slightly rolled off treble.


----------



## Badas

novicez1 said:


> This is something I would really like confirmed. One last thing, how's the treble extension of the V281 compared to the V100/G109? I'm a little bit concerned because I've read reviews that the V220/V281 has slightly rolled off treble.


 

V281 doesn't have rolled off treble. I have a test track that I use. The Chieftains - The Foggy Dew. If you can hear tape hiss in the background (it is such a high toned hiss, not all amps, HP's or DAC's reproduce it) then there is no treble roll. If you can't hear the hiss then it is most definitely treble rolled. V281 plays it with all detail.


----------



## phonomat

I did quite a bit of back-and-forthing between V280 and V281 and could hear no differences whatsoever. That was a couple of months ago, but I seem to remember that Fried confirmed my findings. In any case, if you can do without the additional functions V281 offers, I'm sure you will be more than fine going with V280. Hth.


----------



## jjthorn

If 0.25A time-lag fuse is soldered in place on the circuit board does this mean the V281 has to be returned to manufacturer in Germany to replace time lag fuse or can it be replaced in Country of purchase (Australia)?
  
 If not owner replaceable what is approximate cost to replace the fuse?


----------



## sandalaudio

jjthorn said:


> If 0.25A time-lag fuse is soldered in place on the circuit board does this mean the V281 has to be returned to manufacturer in Germany to replace time lag fuse or can it be replaced in Country of purchase (Australia)?
> 
> If not owner replaceable what is approximate cost to replace the fuse?


 
  
 I think it will be sent back to Germany if it's under warranty repair, unless the distributor has some special arrangement.
  
 It's just a standard $2 radial lead fuse placed next to the power transformer, so there's nothing particularly hard about replacing it, but any good electronics repairman would probably spend at least several hours trying to find out why it blew, before deciding to replace the fuse. I would be fairly suspicious of anyone willing to just replace the fuse.
  
 V281 has so much protection and headroom that it's pretty impossible for the fuse to blow, unless the owner does something pretty dangerous and stupid, or had a lightning strike etc.
  
 Just as the manual says, a blown fuse probably indicates something broken internally, and I would seriously worry about just replacing the fuse.


----------



## Mist3rLao

Noticed that almost no mention of a Hugo TT pairing with the V281, for those who've tried it, how is it?


----------



## Drewligarchy

mist3rlao said:


> Noticed that almost no mention of a Hugo TT pairing with the V281, for those who've tried it, how is it?


 
  
 I didn't love the pairing. I had a loaner TT from my dealer for a couple days to evaluate it and I listened to it balanced to my LCD-4s and single-ended with my LCD-XCs. To me, the TT leans a bit darker compared to the Hugo and Chord 2qute, and the V281 leans warm - even through the balanced output - it was too dark/warm to me.
  
 I have been trying to find the best amp/dac for my LCD-4s, and IMHO the best paring I've found is a DAC that leans neutral/slightly brighter. I like the Chord 2qute the best out of the Chord lineup (though I haven't tried the Mojo or Dave), but the absolute best pairing I've found with the v281 is the Auralic Vega. The v281's power and tone provides great bass on the LCD-4s, and the Vega brings it to life, so to speak, and makes it lively and dynamic in the higher frequencies.


----------



## Badas

drewligarchy said:


> I didn't love the pairing. I had a loaner TT from my dealer for a couple days to evaluate it and I listened to it balanced to my LCD-4s and single-ended with my LCD-XCs. To me, the TT leans a bit darker compared to the Hugo and Chord 2qute, and the V281 leans warm - even through the balanced output - it was too dark/warm to me.
> 
> I have been trying to find the best amp/dac for my LCD-4s, and IMHO the best paring I've found is a DAC that leans neutral/slightly brighter. I like the Chord 2qute the best out of the Chord lineup (though I haven't tried the Mojo or Dave), but the absolute best pairing I've found with the v281 is the Auralic Vega. The v281's power and tone provides great bass on the LCD-4s, and the Vega brings it to life, so to speak, and makes it lively and dynamic in the higher frequencies.


 

 My setup is also a Vega > V281. Sounds bang on to me.
  
 What filter do you use on your Vega? I use 3.


----------



## Drewligarchy

badas said:


> My setup is also a Vega > V281. Sounds bang on to me.
> 
> What filter do you use on your Vega? I use 3.


 
  
 I use 4 mostly, and 1 for classical/chamber etc. I love the synergy of this DAC/Amp combo - especially with tough to drive phones like the LCD-4. What headphones do you use on this combo - that you think really bring out its best?


----------



## Badas

drewligarchy said:


> I use 4 mostly, and 1 for classical/chamber etc. I love the synergy of this DAC/Amp combo - especially with tough to drive phones like the LCD-4. What headphones do you use on this combo - that you think really bring out its best?


 

 I only own a couple of HP's. LCD-3C and AudioQuest NightHawks. Both sound great.
  
 I have heard a bunch on the V281 tho. Ether C, Ether Flow, HE-6 and Focal Utopia. All sound fantastic. Ether Flow and Utopia would have to be my fav.


----------



## zappazappazappa

mist3rlao said:


> Noticed that almost no mention of a Hugo TT pairing with the V281, for those who've tried it, how is it?


 
 I really like the combo. I can appreciate it may be too warm sounding for the LCD 4 but having heard this headphone at a couple of shows in the last year I would say its one of the richest/warmest phones I've heard - too rich and syrupy sounding for me, so I can appreciate that it would need' lighting up', maybe with brighter sounding electronics to get the best of it.( It was being used with Dave at one show and Audeze's top amp at another).Funny how we all hear/react to hifi  differently but I certainly would not describe the TT/Violectric combo as too warm sounding. To me using HD800's, it is a very neutral and revealing high resolution amp. I previously used the TT as a DAC with the Sennheiser amp to drive the HD800's in balanced mode ,which is a good combo, but I was surprised by how much more detail and space I was hearing using the TT/Violectric - it really does let me hear stuff on CD's which I didn't think had anything more to reveal.


----------



## S Crowther

mist3rlao said:


> Noticed that almost no mention of a Hugo TT pairing with the V281, for those who've tried it, how is it?


 
one thing is that the default output of the TT through its XLR and RCA jacks is a little too high for the V281. I asked Fried about this and he recommended about a 10% cut in the TT output from its default which is easily done with the TT volume control. I find the best setting is green. Fried suggested putting the V281 volume at 12o'clock and then setting the TT volume control to suit it.


----------



## Mist3rLao

Interesting how people seem to be divided with the pairing. Maybe down to differences in preference?


----------



## sandalaudio

s crowther said:


> one thing is that the default output of the TT through its XLR and RCA jacks is a little too high for the V281. I asked Fried about this and he recommended about a 10% cut in the TT output from its default which is easily done with the TT volume control. I find the best setting is green. Fried suggested putting the V281 volume at 12o'clock and then setting the TT volume control to suit it.


 
  
 The default "line level" mode on Hugo/TT/Mojo is 3V rms, which is one of the highest we've seen on the market. I am not sure why Chord decided to use such a high voltage, but it does give some people a perceived sense of excitement and superiority because it "sounds louder therefore better".
  
 The recommended industry standard is +4dBu (1.23V rms) for pro gear and -10dBV (0.32V rms) for consumer gear, but most brands tend to aim for 1-2V rms so it sounds a bit louder than other brands i.e. more exciting, and also gives better measured specs (louder signal v.s. noise floor, so better on paper S/N).
  
 V281 says it can handle maximum line input of +21dBu (8.7 Vrms), so Hugo TT's 3V should be fine, but it will sound quite loud and you won't be able to benefit from the full range of the volume knob. I guess that's why V281 has pre-gain adjustment switch, so you can effectively drop it by -6dB to compensate for Hugo TT's hot output.
  


mist3rlao said:


> Interesting how people seem to be divided with the pairing. Maybe down to differences in preference?


 
  
 Isn't it all about personal preference?


----------



## Badas

sandalaudio said:


> The default "line level" mode on Hugo/TT/Mojo is 3V rms, which is one of the highest we've seen on the market. I am not sure why Chord decided to use such a high voltage, but it does give some people a perceived sense of excitement and superiority because it "sounds louder therefore better".
> 
> The recommended industry standard is +4dBu (1.23V rms) for pro gear and -10dBV (0.32V rms) for consumer gear, but most brands tend to aim for 1-2V rms so it sounds a bit louder than other brands i.e. more exciting, and also gives better measured specs (louder signal v.s. noise floor, so better on paper S/N).
> 
> V281 says it can handle maximum line input of +21dBu (8.7 Vrms), so Hugo TT's 3V should be fine, but it will sound quite loud and you won't be able to benefit from the full range of the volume knob. I guess that's why V281 has pre-gain adjustment switch, so you can effectively drop it by -6dB to compensate for Hugo TT's hot output.


 
  
 Auralic Vega is 4.2 volts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I don't know why they do that.
  
 My V281 is on the way back from being repaired (Germany). Hopefully I should be back to having fun soon.


----------



## sandalaudio

badas said:


> Auralic Vega is 4.2 volts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Vega's maximum output voltage of 4 Vrms is when the digital volume is cranked up to the maximum, so realistically they would expect the user to turn it down a bit. Vega doesn't seem to have a "fixed volume" mode, so it could get somewhat confusing when paired with their own Auralic Taurus headphone amp, because they each have independent volume knobs.
  
 In Hugo's case, Chord could have easily set the "fixed volume" mode to 1~2V, yet they insist on 3V which is traditional for Chord gear (like Qute series). It's fine for V281, but some lesser amps with not as much input headroom (particularly those battery operated amps) does end up getting saturated and end up sounding distorted.
  
 There's funny stories about people saying Hugo makes music sound richer, and later find out that the amp is clipping and distorting by as much as 10% (like turning it into a guitar amp).
  
 The bottom line is, V281 is one of the most tolerant amps for these kinds of strange circumstances that people could call "pairing" or "synergy". That's one of the big reason why I like it so much and put a lot of trust in it.


----------



## Badas

sandalaudio said:


> Vega's maximum output voltage of 4 Vrms is when the digital volume is cranked up to the maximum, so realistically they would expect the user to turn it down a bit. Vega doesn't seem to have a "fixed volume" mode, so it could get somewhat confusing when paired with their own Auralic Taurus headphone amp, because they each have independent volume knobs.
> 
> In Hugo's case, Chord could have easily set the "fixed volume" mode to 1~2V, yet they insist on 3V which is traditional for Chord gear (like Qute series). It's fine for V281, but some lesser amps with not as much input headroom (particularly those battery operated amps) does end up getting saturated and end up sounding distorted.
> 
> ...


 

 So would you recommend the volume control on the Auralic Vega be turned down a little? To reduce the voltage input.
 I did strike one amp before that distorted from too much voltage from the Vega. The Woo WA5. It had noticeable distortion at volume 100 but was fine at volume 63. Interestingly my Woo WA22 didn't suffer from this. No difference I could hear from the different volumes.
 I tried this test with the V281. I also didn't really have a issue.
  
 I've had a issue with the V281 having the Overload fault. Violectric has just put in new amps and asked me to check my HP cables (no issues with other gear). However now I'm wondering if the Vega going hot into the inputs has something to do with it?


----------



## sandalaudio

badas said:


> So would you recommend the volume control on the Auralic Vega be turned down a little? To reduce the voltage input.
> I did strike one amp before that distorted from too much voltage from the Vega. The Woo WA5. It had noticeable distortion at volume 100 but was fine at volume 63. Interestingly my Woo WA22 didn't suffer from this. No difference I could hear from the different volumes.
> I tried this test with the V281. I also didn't really have a issue.
> 
> I've had a issue with the V281 having the Overload fault. Violectric has just put in new amps and asked me to check my HP cables (no issues with other gear). However now I'm wondering if the Vega going hot into the inputs has something to do with it?


 
  
 I was not going to name names, but the brand you mentioned was what I had experience with as being easily overloaded and distorted, which makes the amp "sound like no other" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 I'm not sure at what point the V281 overload protection relay kicks in, but in any case the Vega at max volume should not trip the V281 unless you had the V281 pre-gain cranked up, or had something shorting at the headphone jack (e.g. a faulty XLR grounding or 3.5mm to 6.35mm adapter etc), or there was some strange DC offset from Vega's output. (Trying RCA v.s. XLR might isolate the problem).
  
 I guess the best way to check if it's Vega causing the overload is to adjust the Vega's internal volume to something reasonable like 1-2Vrms ballpark. Maybe a good handy reference is to use an iPhone as a source since that's about 1Vrms at max volume. i.e. play a same song and match the Vega volume to iPhone at max volume.
  
 There's always a chance that V281 was simply broken.


----------



## Badas

sandalaudio said:


> I was not going to name names, but the brand you mentioned was what I had experience with as being easily overloaded and distorted, which makes the amp "sound like no other"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah! I don't think Woo products are all that. Nice cases. However not so great underneath. I've had silly problems with them. My WA22 is working okay now and looks pretty so I might as well stick with it.
  
 I was using XLR input and balanced output. HP's are fine on other equipment. So I'm really guessing V281 fault. Violectric have replaced all the internal amps. I'm just hoping that the input is not damaged and causing the fault. My gear works on a mates V281 and his faults on mine. So it does suggest a V281 fault.
  
 However I should find out soon. It's on the way back.


----------



## supabayes

Are there any V281 owners who have considered/compared the V281 vs ALO Studio 6?


----------



## Badas

Well. Round 2 for the V281. I've got the V281 back from Germany and installed back in my rack. It seems to be all fixed.
 I didn't get off to a good start. I only had it for a few days before sending it back for repair.
  
 I have to say Fried from Violectrics is exceptional. Top service. I actually suspect he provided a new unit. The unit I sent back had a tiny scratch on the case which has gone and the feet have gone from black to silver. Can't ask for better than that.
  
 Now I can look forward to getting grips with this amp. So far I'm really impressed. Both my HP's are sounding their best.
 I've adjusted the gain pins at the back down 12db so I can have more range on the volume control. I've heard this effects the sound a little??? Is it for the better, worse or just a little?


----------



## zhgutov

badas said:


> I've adjusted the gain pins at the back down 12db so I can have more range on the volume control. I've heard this effects the sound a little??? Is it for the better, worse or just a little?


 

  
 It was me who talked about that. These are my personal observations, so they may be subjective.
 Anyway I was talking about that like this is my personal preference, not like anything is better or worse.
 I can describe my impressions in detail, but I think it may be interesting if you get your own impressions first.
 I think, this impressions may also be different, depending on the DAC, headphones, and other possible conditions.
  
 Can you describe your own impressions first?


----------



## Badas

zhgutov said:


> Can you describe your own impressions first?


 
 I've only tried 0db and down -12db. I won't use +db. Too powerful.
  
 -12db gives me an excellent range on the volume control. On the Hawks volume gets near half way. On the LCD-3 it gets near the top with room to spare.
 With 0db I don't have much volume control. Hawks are a few clicks up from the bottom. LCD-3 is one third up. A little adjustment on the volume can take the volume from just about right to blasting my ears.
  
 My first sound impressions from the different positions. Not a lot of difference. Hawks I can't pick up anything. LCD-3 does sound just a tad leaner on -12db. In the mid-range. Not a lot tho.
  
 So 0db sounds best so far. However I think I like the Hawks best on the V281 so far. So I would probably prefer to have more volume range (the -12db position). I'm thinking of keeping the LCD-3's for tube amp duties only as the LCD-3's beat the Hawks on tubes.


----------



## zhgutov

badas said:


> I've only tried 0db and down -12db. I won't use +db. Too powerful.
> 
> -12db gives me an excellent range on the volume control. On the Hawks volume gets near half way. On the LCD-3 it gets near the top with room to spare.
> With 0db I don't have much volume control. Hawks are a few clicks up from the bottom. LCD-3 is one third up. A little adjustment on the volume can take the volume from just about right to blasting my ears.
> ...


 

 Yeah, this looks like the difference in personal preferences.
  
 I use LCD-3F and Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250.
 This headphones are from different price points, but I cannot actually tell if one is better than other.
 They both have the strengths and weaknesses, and have different tonal balance.
 Anyway, I have the same impressions from both about the pregain settings.
  
 The sound @ -12 dB _seems_ to be more precise or accurate.
 @ 0 dB it seems to have more so-called fullness (I think this is that some people talked about V281 in the reviews, and probably you talk about the same thing).
 @ 0 dB the sound is concentrated more on each instrument and its environment, @ -12 dB it is more about the global scene.
 That difference is not like day and night. It may be described like fine tuning of the sound.
  
 I used this setup with LCD-3 in relatively noisy environment, and I preferred -12 dB.
 Now I have quiet environment, and this changed my preference to 0 dB (maybe temporarily).
 0 dB seems to be more about music =)
  
 I use Violectric V800 with 24 dBu outputs, so, I don't turn the volume higher than 12 o'clock.
 I don't see the problem here, because the sound remains the same at the different positions of the volume knob.


----------



## Badas

zhgutov said:


> Yeah, this looks like the difference in personal preferences.
> 
> I use LCD-3F and Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250.
> This headphones are from different price points, but I cannot actually tell if one is better than other.
> ...


 
  
 Yes. That is what my ears are hearing also. Well explained.
  
 I will experiment with this over the next few weeks.
 My environment is 100% quiet. Gear is located in a soundproof purpose built home theater. So no ambient noise.


----------



## Badas

I also have to do a very big shout out to Violectric and especially Fried.
  
 Their help, advise, attitude and eventual repair was world class. Top of the game. 10/10.
  
 Anyone considering Violectric gear keep this in mind.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## thomascrown

badas said:


> I also have to do a very big shout out to Violectric and especially Fried.
> 
> Their help, advise, attitude and eventual repair was world class. Top of the game. 10/10.
> 
> Anyone considering Violectric gear keep this in mind.


 
 Absolutely


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> I also have to do a very big shout out to Violectric and especially Fried.
> 
> Their help, advise, attitude and eventual repair was world class. Top of the game. 10/10.
> 
> Anyone considering Violectric gear keep this in mind.


 
  
 Stateside +1 for Arthur and all that.


----------



## novicez1

Just splurged and bought an HD800S and the V281. All the impressions in this thread are spot on. Really enjoying it!


----------



## project86

novicez1 said:


> Just splurged and bought an HD800S and the V281. All the impressions in this thread are spot on. Really enjoying it!


 
  
  
 Nice! Congrats.


----------



## Fegefeuer

What DAC are you using with it, what did you have before and what improved especially?


----------



## 13713

novicez1 said:


> Just splurged and bought an HD800S and the V281. All the impressions in this thread are spot on. Really enjoying it!




Welcome to the club. I absolutely love mine.


----------



## Badas

novicez1 said:


> Just splurged and bought an HD800S and the V281. All the impressions in this thread are spot on. Really enjoying it!


 

 Nice combo. Congrats.
  
 Fairly new to the V281 myself. I'm still trying to get to grips with it. Coming from tubes I'm puzzled how a SS amp can compete. I've had a few SS amps and they have always been behind tube amps.
  
 Not anymore.
  
 I keep looking at my tube amp and think with the V281 being this good do I need tubes? Not sure of that answer yet. However the tube amp has not been turned on for two weeks.


----------



## novicez1

@Fegefeuer
  
 I'm using the Lake People RS06 as my DAC paired with the Lake People G109A, still using the unbalanced outs since I'm waiting for my DIY 3 pins to come out.
  
  
 As far as improvements go, I've only tested my 600's with the 1/4 inch, I'm enjoying the HD800S on balanced too much that I can't be bothered to A/B them vs the G109A yet.
  
 on HD600's 1/4 jack output:
  
 1.) Bass Dynamics and Speed - Definitely better compared to the G109A, added bass quantity might give off an impression that the bass is somewhat loose on the V281, but is not the case.
  
 2.) Decay Image - Much resolving than the G109A, decay notes don't just fizzle out like how it is in the G109A
  
 3.) Resolution - V281 hands down, there are micro-details in some of my tracks that I never noticed before that popped out. 
  
 4.) Soundstage - Considerable increase in layering and depth, width increase is also there, but not that much. (HD600's don't really have that good width to begin with)
  
  5.) Tonal Balance - I personally prefer my music to have a touch of sparkle, and since the V281 is considered a warm amp, it kinda rolled off some of the top end. I have yet to test the 600's on balanced so I will reserve my judgement here on whether the G109A is superior tonally than the V281, but as far as 1/4" outputs are concerned, I prefer the tonality of the G109A vs the V281.
  
 Settings:
 G109A - 0db Gain (default)
 V281 - 0db Gain (default)
 RS06 - +9db, Sharp Roll-off, Re-sampling On, USB-XMOS on Foobar WASAPI.
  
 Balanced cables for my HD600's are also on the way, I'll post my findings as soon as I can get a considerable head time with them. 
  
 As for the HD800S...... I still can't wipe off that grin whenever I'm listening on it. 
  
 UPDATE:
  
 Anyone noticed the change in tonality as you change gain settings? I find lowering the gain gives it more brilliance. (Might be just placebo, but I will continue observing/listening)
  
 EDIT:
  
 Seems like some of the owners in this thread are also experiencing the same thing... If that's the case, paired with a DAC that has adjustable volume and/or gain, one can customize the final sound this amp is outputting without worrying about lack of volume control.


----------



## Badas

novicez1 said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Anyone noticed the change in tonality as you change gain settings? I find lowering the gain gives it more brilliance. (Might be just placebo, but I will continue observing/listening)
> 
> ...




What do you mean about brilliance when lowering the gain? I found it was leaner. On 0db it was fuller. More midrange. I felt lowering the gain added a little more dynamics. I leave mine on 0db as I like fuller more.


----------



## Badas

I'm finding it difficult to find a reason to keep my tube amp. I'm rolling lots of tube to give the amp a point of difference to the V281. I think I've got a reason to like and keep the tube amp then I go and listen to the V281 again and it shatters the tube amp.

I have been a tube guy for a long while and the V281 is the first SS amp I've heard that makes me think I don't need or could live without a tube amp. 

Incredible amp.


----------



## novicez1

badas said:


> What do you mean about brilliance when lowering the gain? I found it was leaner. On 0db it was fuller.


 
  
 Exactly, Leaner = Less Dark and more Bright. I feel that -6db on V281 matches the tonality of the G109A(0db) while keeping all the improvements. Then again, still needs further listening and observation.
  


badas said:


> I felt lowering the gain added a little more dynamics. I leave mine on 0db as I like fuller more.


 
  
 On some tracks I prefer the gain to be at -6db as it gives the sparkly trebles more breathing room. On cold tracks, 0db definitely to smooth out those rough edges.


----------



## zhgutov

> Originally Posted by *novicez1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Anyone noticed the change in tonality as you change gain settings? I find lowering the gain gives it more brilliance. (Might be just placebo, but I will continue observing/listening)
> 
> On some tracks I prefer the gain to be at -6db as it gives the sparkly trebles more breathing room. On cold tracks, 0db definitely to smooth out those rough edges.


 
  
 I think you need to be sure that you make the comparison at the equal loudness.
  
 Anyway you can look at this in the different way.
 Lowering the gain leads to slightly less resolution - that's because you hear more sparkles, and less colors.
 Setting gain to 0 dB gives you that colors, which make the music lifelike.
  
 You can find more different points of view, but I think what the equal loudness is the key to be less subjective.
 The results of such comparison may surprise you


----------



## novicez1

zhgutov said:


> I think you need to be sure that you make the comparison at the equal loudness.
> 
> Anyway you can look at this in the different way.
> Lowering the gain leads to slightly less resolution - that's because you hear more sparkles, and less colors.
> ...




I did volume match when making the comparisons. I'll buy a pair of XLR interconnects later so as to be able to a/b the G109A and V281 on simultaneous output off the RS06.

Shouldn't it be lesser gain = more resolution as adding more gain will inadvertently add more distortion in the final sound?


----------



## zhgutov

novicez1 said:


> Shouldn't it be lesser gain = more resolution as adding more gain will inadvertently add more distortion in the final sound?


 
  
 As I know, there are two steps: pre-gain, and amplifier gain.
 Amplifier gain is 8 dB for each amplifier.
 It is 14 dB for balanced outputs because of two amplifiers per channel.
 So, if this is true, this works in the opposite way: 0 dB = less "gain" in total.
 Personally, I changed my preferences a couple of times changing pre-gain within -14..0 dB.
 That's why I suggested the different point of view


----------



## davidespinosa

FYI, Violectric USA is having a 25% off Black Friday sale:
  
http://violectric-usa.com/
  
 The Lake People RS 08 is also balanced and has a really good price right now.
 It's made by the same people, but it's less fancy than the V281.


----------



## project86

Good deals to be had with the 25% off - RS 08 is $635, V280 is $1237, and V281 is $1725.


----------



## 13713

davidespinosa said:


> FYI, Violectric USA is having a 25% off Black Friday sale:
> 
> http://violectric-usa.com/
> 
> ...







project86 said:


> Good deals to be had with the 25% off - RS 08 is $635, V280 is $1237, and V281 is $1725.




Wow... That's a great deal. Violectric V281 is an excellent end game SS amp for a lot of people. This is a killer deal.


----------



## jmac1516

Is it accurate to say that the v280 will have the same performance as the v281 but less features?


----------



## novicez1

jmac1516 said:


> Is it accurate to say that the v280 will have the same performance as the v281 but less features?


 
 Just by reading at the spec sheet, I would say no as the V281 has more power than the V280. 
  
 For sonic differences, I'll leave that to the people who had the chance to own both chime in.


----------



## 13713

jmac1516 said:


> Is it accurate to say that the v280 will have the same performance as the v281 but less features?




The price between the two of them is small enough that the 281 is the way to go.

Go big!


----------



## Badas

13713 said:


> The price between the two of them is small enough that the 281 is the way to go.
> 
> Go big!




Absolutely. When I looked at the different models and pricing I thought the same.


----------



## davidespinosa

From the manuals:
  

Impedance (ohms)RS08 (mW)V280 (mW)V281 (mW)60017001800270030025702650<unknown>10031005300560050168031004200321200260028001660015001500


----------



## jmac1516

For efficient 300 Ohm cans like the Senn 800S, the question (for me) is if that is a meaningful enough power difference for the cost. I'm sure the v280 would power the 800S with ease.
  
 I know its a personal decision for us all!  I would love to get the best (v281), but tradeoff is I can use the extra cash for a decent dac!
  
 Thanks all.


----------



## 13713

jmac1516 said:


> For efficient 300 Ohm cans like the Senn 800S, the question (for me) is if that is a meaningful enough power difference for the cost. I'm sure the v280 would power the 800S with ease.
> 
> I know its a personal decision for us all!  I would love to get the best (v281), but tradeoff is I can use the extra cash for a decent dac!
> 
> Thanks all.


 
 The less than $500 in savings is not really a push towards a decent DAC. 
  
 Build your chain in blocks if you need to but with the sale all I can say is that with the difference being less than half a thousand dollars it makes a lot more sense to go with the V281 then with the V280 and a slightly better DAC.
  
 But for the sake of hobby and having a good general discussion what DAC options are you looking at?
  
 Edit: In this hobby I found the DAC the hardest component to research and pick. I am a vinyl guy so a DAC wasn't as high as a priority for me as other components. But I do understand the plight of what is the best bang for my buck build. This hobby is an absolute beast to get through and throwing money at it isn't always the best or most reasonable option for us. 
  
 I cheated with the DAC because when I ordered the V281 and V600 I decided to go all the way and just get the newly released V850 to keep my newly purchased headphone stack looking the same. I am the worst person to have an in depth DAC discussion with as the majority of my purchasing decision was in support of Violectric as a company and wanting to keep components in the same company.


----------



## Badas

13713 said:


> The less than $500 in savings is not really a push towards a decent DAC.
> 
> Build your chain in blocks if you need to but with the sale all I can say is that with the difference being less than half a thousand dollars it makes a lot more sense to go with the V281 then with the V280 and a slightly better DAC.
> 
> ...




I was thinking this as well. I wouldn't want to put a $500 DAC with the V281. To me the DAC was the biggest improvement. It is so important.


----------



## jmac1516

I agree regarding lower end DACs with either v281/v280.  I meant the extra $500 would go towards a solid DAC.
  
 In the price range I am considering, looking at either Gungnir MB or v850.  Thoughts?  Any others?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## 13713

jmac1516 said:


> I agree regarding lower end DACs with either v281/v280.  I meant the extra $500 would go towards a solid DAC.
> 
> In the price range I am considering, looking at either Gungnir MB or v850.  Thoughts?  Any others?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 Ah and with the sale the 850 would be a little over 400 dollars saved. That is actually quite the situation. Save the cash to go with a DAC that actually can be purchased with the difference saved of sticking with the V280.
  
 I guess look at it in the context of is this going to be possibly your only SS amp? If you dabble with different gear the 280/850 combo might actually be wicked. I only suggested the V281 as a good choice as the discount makes it quite the steal. I can't answer those questions for you. I can say that the 850 is really amazing and I am not let down with it the flipside of that statement is that this is the V281 thread and all of us V281 owners really love the amp to death.


----------



## novicez1

The Lake People RS06 is also a decent choice. I use it to pair with my V281 and sounds really great. It's just the V850 minus the potentiometer, multiple upsampling modes and a smaller power supply.


----------



## davidespinosa

novicez1 said:


> It's just the V850 minus the potentiometer, multiple upsampling modes and a smaller power supply.


 
  
 Exactly.  The RS06 is closer to the V850 than most people realize.  As long as you can tolerate the difference in appearance.
  
 It has a switching power supply, instead of the linear supply on the V800/V850, but Fried says switching is actually quieter for this application.


----------



## Badas

I had a war on everything last night. Decided to try everything I owned. Also calibrate everything so I had good volume control scope.
  
 I tested the following:
  
 Vega DAC: Which filters sounded the best (I have 4 to choose from), also what volume setting worked best for both amps.

 V281: Pin controls to give the best volume range.
  
 Woo WA22: High and Low sensitivity. Plus volume range. I have a pet hate on the WA22. A stepped volume control. Which gets clicky when going above half way. So I like to keep under half. So Vega level needed to pumped up.
  
 Then the best HP's. AudioQuest NightHawks or Ether Flow.
  
 Like I said War. It was filters, volumes, pins, sensitivity and HP's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 As far as amps go the V281 was a clear winner over the Woo WA22. Outstanding. The first SS amp that I believe beats my tube amp.
  
 My winning best combo was Vega filter 3 > V281 pins -12db > Ether Flow.
 I'm going to have so much fun with this combo over the Xmas holidays.
  
 Rock on V281.


----------



## jmac1516

badas said:


> As far as amps go the V281 was a clear winner over the Woo WA22. Outstanding. The first SS amp that I believe beats my tube amp.
> 
> My winning best combo was Vega filter 3 > V281 pins -12db > Ether Flow.
> I'm going to have so much fun with this combo over the Xmas holidays.
> ...




Nice to hear! I just pulled the trigger on the V281. I don't have Ether Flows (yet) but Senn 800S and Senn 650 (all German chain!). I considered a tube amp to pair with the 800S but I'm a SS guy and don't want to deal with rolling. I'm sure I'd get addicted to trying all the best tubes I can find.

So V281 it is!


----------



## zeissiez

badas said:


> I had a war on everything last night. Decided to try everything I owned. Also calibrate everything so I had good volume control scope.
> 
> I tested the following:
> 
> ...




Bring on WA5


----------



## Badas

jmac1516 said:


> Nice to hear! I just pulled the trigger on the V281. I don't have Ether Flows (yet) but Senn 800S and Senn 650 (all German chain!). I considered a tube amp to pair with the 800S but I'm a SS guy and don't want to deal with rolling. I'm sure I'd get addicted to trying all the best tubes I can find.
> 
> So V281 it is!


 
 Congrats!

 You are going to be very happy.
  
 I have heard the V281 > HD800S combo. Very, very nice.
  
 V281 is the first SS amp I have heard that has convinced me I don't desire or need tubes.


----------



## novicez1

V281 and HD800S owner here, as much as I wanted to keep this thread circlejerk free, I cannot deny the synergy between those two.


----------



## 13713

jmac1516 said:


> Nice to hear! I just pulled the trigger on the V281. I don't have Ether Flows (yet) but Senn 800S and Senn 650 (all German chain!). I considered a tube amp to pair with the 800S but I'm a SS guy and don't want to deal with rolling. I'm sure I'd get addicted to trying all the best tubes I can find.
> 
> So V281 it is!


 
 Very nice. Welcome to the club I am looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## boomtube

How does the V281 match with sensitive IEM's? I'm looking for an amp to jump back and forth between IEM's and HP's.


----------



## Mist3rLao

That's part of the allure of this amp as it is so versatile. Although, IME, only SE output for IEM (SE846, A12) at -12db pre-gain. Using the balanced ouput produces some kind of noise.


----------



## boomtube

mist3rlao said:


> That's part of the allure of this amp as it is so versatile. Although, IME, only SE output for IEM (SE846, A12) at -12db pre-gain. Using the balanced ouput produces some kind of noise.


 
 Do you have any experience with an amp with similar qualities at half the price?


----------



## Mist3rLao

@boomtube The Cavalli LC comes to mind. Although, please take it with a grain of salt since I'm not really in a position to provide credible answers. I am merely sharing my experience however shallow it maybe.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm using -12 pre gain for the HD800SD and prefer it to 0db as there's a noticable difference you could spot blindly. 
  
 in comparison to +0db the sound has less body fat with more definition and delicacy, it's Dancer of the Boreal Valley vs. Yhorm the Giant. Both have their qualities but here I prefer the more gracile, agile and sharp approach.


----------



## jmac1516

fegefeuer said:


> I'm using -12 pre gain for the HD800SD and prefer it to 0db as there's a noticable difference you could spot blindly.
> 
> in comparison to +0db the sound has less body fat with more definition and delicacy, it's Dancer of the Boreal Valley vs. Yhorm the Giant. Both have their qualities but here I prefer the more gracile, agile and sharp approach.


 
 I'll be getting my v281 within the next couple weeks and will test your gain preferences.  I have the 800S.
  
 Thanks for providing your perspective!


----------



## Audioscope

I have been following this thread with some interest, especially because of all the glowing reviews.
  
 Some of my previous amps have been good, but have always left me wanting for more.  I had several tube amps, including a Zana Deux Transformer, which I felt was amazingly clear and neutral, with lots of power.  However, the dynamic range and details fell short of my other amps which were solid state.
  
 Most recently, I picked up a Questyle CMA800R, which is excellent with my HD800, but it sees little use because I prefer my T1, which it does not pair well with.
  
 In general, I really enjoy a resolving headphone like the T1 with a nice soundstage, but with a touch of warmth and body in the presentation.  It feels as though the V281 is that amp, but unfortunately I have no way to audition it.  I believe I am looking for the clarity of a solid state amp with the punch, dynamics, and warmth of a tube amp.
  
 If anyone can share their experience with the V281 vs. other high end amps paired with the T1, HD800, and LCD2, I would be very happy!


----------



## Fegefeuer

I heard the Zana Deux in a special version and thought it was a excellent amp, among the best I heard in tonality and soundstage (the imaging). Just not as versatile as the v281 and lacking its grand soundstage and current hungry headphone satisfaction.

The Questyle is below both. By far to be honest.

All my listening was done with the HD800. You can tweak the sound slightly to your liking by adjusting gain settings. You have to try for yourself in the end though.

What's your DAC?


----------



## novicez1

@Fegefeuer

Im presuming the Questyle you are describing are the Questyle mono stack?


----------



## Audioscope

fegefeuer said:


> I heard the Zana Deux in a special version and thought it was a excellent amp, among the best I heard in tonality and soundstage (the imaging). Just not as versatile as the v281 and lacking its grand soundstage and current hungry headphone satisfaction.
> 
> The Questyle is below both. By far to be honest.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The v281 has my attention for sure but I just don't understand why there are some less positive reviews of it
  
 Currently I am using the Audiolab 8200CDQ as a DAC via USB from my PC.  I have no other comparisons in terms of the DAC.


----------



## Mist3rLao

Audioscope I think the "for $800 less" part is a dead giveaway that Marv was referring to the V200 on that. Also, I just asked Marv something that involved the V281 recently to which he said that the V281 is "pretty good" but find its strident nature a deal breaker for him. Although, he did state in his comment in the link you posted that he thinks this with most ss amp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

audioscope said:


> The v281 has my attention for sure but I just don't understand why there are some less positive reviews of it
> 
> Currently I am using the Audiolab 8200CDQ as a DAC via USB from my PC.  I have no other comparisons in terms of the DAC.


 
  
 well, you get that with a lot of high end stuff, also with almost universally acclaimed hardware like the HD 800. 
  
 Marv is very experienced and has a no BS attitude with hardware when it doesn't meet his standards (it wastes time and people's money), so he's pickier than 99% of others, also very price conscious in his suggestions (also one criteria he doesn't like about the V281). He prefers the HD 650 to the very best modded 800, cares less about soundstage in headphones than others (like me). So while I agree with the spot on tonality of the (modded) 650 I still prefer the HD 800 as I can't give up its staging, bass and detail, trading it for a brighter nature and less compatibility with my music collection.


----------



## sanjeewasam

Here is some info that may interest you re volume levels, gain and balanced mode- from Fried Reim CEO Vio
  
 Me:  ". I bought V281 mainly based on inner fidelity review and the comment on HD800 with V281. I am a fan of HD800 and is my favorite. I also have AKG K812 which I like, Focal Elear and Philips X2. I have sold LCD-2 and K712 and also Burson conductor.
  
 Before V281 I was using V850-> Luxman P-200-> HD800 and I loved it very much. Before V850 arrived Chord Mojo-> Luxman-> HD800. I have to agree that V850-> Luxman-> HD800 was very good (smooth, laid back sound/relaxing and excellent sound stage and HD800 was tamed. However. it was thin and base was tight but not boomy). 
  
 When I added V850->V281-> HD800 I realized that with factory dip settings I need to turn the volume higher than Luxman to get the same level of sound. Now the question is Luxman being 2W per channel at 32O with no gain switches seems to be louder compared to V281 (much much powerful per spec). Why is that I need to pump up more volume in V281? What are the suggested gain settings for Hd800, K812 and Elear?. I tried HD800 with +6 gain but I did not like what I was hearing that much.
  
 I am still using HD800 single ended mode (both Luxman and V281) and when compared to Luxman I noted that Hd800 has more body (thinker), Slightly more impactful in base but smaller in sound stage with V281. Has anyone noted this? I am wondering if this is because HD800 when powered via V281 that has 40v swing in to 600O give HD800 enough W/V within the full range as such it becomes thicker sounding. So my guess is that the bigger sound stage of HD800 is partly created by illusion when thinner sounding? Any comments? "
  
Fried Reim 
"The position of the volume knob has nothing to do with the power of an amp.
 The position of the gas pedal of a car has nothing to do with the power or the speed of the car.
It is more a questions of circuit design.
 We suggest to have the volume control round 12 ´clock for “normal” listening.
 To achieve this we created the “Pre-Gain” to shift the gain of our amps according to the power of the source and the sensitivity of the headphones.
Amps without that feature have to take weak sources and low sensitivity headphones into account and so it will happen in the majority of cases that you have satisfying volumes at 9 o´clock position – what means that you have to face unlinearities from the volume control.

Again:
 - Our amps offer much more output voltage swing than most competitors due to 60 V internal supply – what is good for high impedance headphones
 - Our amps feature sensational low output impedance what is necessary for low impedance headphones
 - Our amps offer the Pre-Gain feature to enable low gain when it is useful to achieve a black background noise and operating the volume control at reasonable positions.   
  
Anyway you should modify your HD 800 and Focal Elear to balanced mode to take advantage of the wider sound stage.
Unfortunately K812 cannot be modified, and I don´t know if it is possible with X2. "


----------



## novicez1

@sanjeewasam

You should be using the balanced output. I dont even go past 10 oclock on mine... and thats at -12db on the dip switches and +15db on my RS06.


----------



## Fegefeuer

frequency masking and tonality also take part in the illusion of soundstage, air etc.
  
  
 Not going balanced with the V281 is a total waste. Go balanced for better soundstage, detail, kick/power/guts. 
 Balanced is not per se better with amps but it is with this design.


----------



## project86

fegefeuer said:


> frequency masking and tonality also take part in the illusion of soundstage, air etc.
> 
> 
> Not going balanced with the V281 is a total waste. Go balanced for better soundstage, detail, kick/power/guts.
> *Balanced is not per se better with amps but it is with this design. *


 
  
  
 This!


----------



## 13713

fegefeuer said:


> frequency masking and tonality also take part in the illusion of soundstage, air etc.
> 
> 
> Not going balanced with the V281 is a total waste. Go balanced for better soundstage, detail, kick/power/guts.
> Balanced is not per se better with amps but it is with this design.


 
 This cannot be stated enough. Balanced out is the way to go for the 281.


----------



## Badas

This is interesting about the V281 and the excellent Fried sent me a reply.
  
 I ordered a few of these to extend my cable run. 4 meter lengths.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Audeze-AKG-extension-cable-4-pin-XLR-M-to-4-pin-XLR-F-Van-Damme-/142206523760?var=&hash=item211c2b5970
  
 and I had the overload fault occur. So I contacted Fried with this:
  
_Hi Fried,

 Amp is performing well. So nice sounding.

 Can you tell me a bit more about that overloading fault?
 I've had a few. Just 3 or so with many hours clocked on the amp (about 50).

 I have changed things since we last talked tho. I have changed Audeze LCD-3
 to the Ether Flow and I purchased a few of these at 4 meters long:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Audeze-AKG-extension-cable-4-pin-XLR-M-to-4-pin-XLR-F-Van-Damme-/142206523760?var=&hash=item211c2b5970

When I add two of these together in a chain then plug in the Ether Flow cable after an hour or so the
 sound goes harsh then I get the overload fault.

 If I just plug in one extension then the Ether Flow everything seems okay. That is what I'm doing now.

 With the overload fault if I add too much cable is it hard (overloading) on the amp?

 Regards

 Dono_
  
 His response:
  
_Hello Dono._
  
_Long cable run will add large capacity load to the amp._
_And I think in your case V281 cannot handle this large added capacity load and begins to oscillate.
 Meaning, the amp itself will generate a high frequency (most times not audible) which leads to overload.
 This cannot be avoided due to the circuit design !!  

 We have made some long cables 5 – 10 m for special clients and tested them in house.
 With these cables we did not face those overloads.
 That means that the amp is reacting to this specific cable.
 Using other cables it might work. _
  
_Best regards_
  
_Fried_
  
So guys. Keep those cable lengths down. I'm tempted to get Violectric to make me a 5 meter cable.


----------



## boomtube

Curious...is there an amp that's fairly close to the v281 in it's ability to drive hungry HP's and sensitive IEM's?


----------



## sahmen

boomtube said:


> Curious...is there an amp that's fairly close to the v281 in it's ability to drive hungry HP's and sensitive IEM's?


 
 The Ifi Pro ican?


----------



## project86

Yep, if there's one amp that matches the V281 in versatility, it's the Pro iCan. I still like my V281 more, but damn if I wasn't severely tempted to buy the iFi amp anyway. I recently sent back the review unit and I find myself missing it.... very solid amp.


----------



## zeissiez

project86 said:


> Yep, if there's one amp that matches the V281 in versatility, it's the Pro iCan. I still like my V281 more, but damn if I wasn't severely tempted to buy the iFi amp anyway. I recently sent back the review unit and I find myself missing it.... very solid amp.




Hi John, how do u compare the V281 and the iCan Pro in soundstage width/depth, separation, imaging, detail retrieval and naturalness, particularly for the HE1000?

Thanks


----------



## project86

zeissiez said:


> Hi John, how do u compare the V281 and the iCan Pro in soundstage width/depth, separation, imaging, detail retrieval and naturalness, particularly for the HE1000?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
  
 That's not easy to answer because the iCan has so many variables. SS mode, Tube mode, and Tube +, all sound different. Then there's the bass enhancer and the crossfeed-like feature they have..... you can really tweak the sound to your liking. 
  
 For HE1000 I prefer SS mode, while Tube is better with HD800 and HE-6. See where I'm going with this? It's very possible one of the configurations iFi offers will sound better to your ear than the V281 does. That didn't quite happen for me, but it still made a big impression, enough to where I miss it already.


----------



## novicez1

@project86

That said,how does the V281 stack up against the pro ican SS mode?

Edit: my bad, you already stated your verdict.


----------



## Mist3rLao

project86 What's your ideal headphone pairing with the V281?


----------



## project86

Hard to say. Probably my favorites are the HD800 (the original, I'm still forming an opinion on the HD800S), as well as the Dharma and LCD-3. All balanced of course.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm also with the balanced HD800, though french flavoured mes amis. It really improves upon an already masterful headphone, really recommended. Just be careful when performing the mod, do a clean install.
  
 Other headphones I really love are the TH-900, HD 650, HE-6 (don't own them).


----------



## project86

Yes, forgot about the good old HD650 - I use the Massdrop HD6XX but still, same result. It's quite good via the 1/4" jack but knocks my socks off with balanced mode. And HE-6 balanced is very very good too.


----------



## Badas

project86 said:


> Yes, forgot about the good old HD650 - I use the Massdrop HD6XX but still, same result. It's quite good via the 1/4" jack but knocks my socks off with balanced mode. And HE-6 balanced is very very good too.


 

 Are balanced cables for the HD6XX easy to get?


----------



## 13713

badas said:


> Are balanced cables for the HD6XX easy to get?




Custom or make your own.


----------



## Badas

13713 said:


> Custom or make your own.


 

 Custom. I can't make anything.


----------



## ab_ba

I have been VERY happy with the balanced cable I bought from ebay seller Venus Audio:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/usr/venus_audio
  
 The price was great, it has a nice weight and texture, and it's been really durable. Just be aware they can be slow sometimes.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## ecva

Hi guys,
  
 Wanted to get your opinions.  I currently have a good old Lake People G103 powering my HD800.  Do you think it would be a good step up to the V281? Or at least is it justifiable for the price jump?  I want an option to go full balanced down the road and from what I was reading about the V281 is that it pairs well with HD800.  I am using Chord Mojo btw as a DAC.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## PleasantSounds

I have no experience with the G103, but your intended chain Mojo -> V281 -> HD800 (balanced) is what I have been using for nearly a year and it sounds fantastic.Whether the upgrade is justifiable to you only you can decide. But this is definitely one of very few SS amps that can be really considered end-game.


----------



## ecva

Thanks for the response.  Do you find the combination not too overly warm?


----------



## PleasantSounds

Too  warm? Not to my taste anyway. Feels pretty much just right. 
 Just make sure you go balanced asap - it really makes a huge difference, especially in dynamics.


----------



## ecva

pleasantsounds said:


> Too  warm? Not to my taste anyway. Feels pretty much just right.
> Just make sure you go balanced asap - it really makes a huge difference, especially in dynamics.


 
  
 Awesome.  Thanks again.


----------



## archeryc

Has anyone try V281 with Utopia combo? How do u feel?


----------



## Badas

archeryc said:


> Has anyone try V281 with Utopia combo? How do u feel?




I've heard it on a mates rig. Bloody lethal. To my ears they are endgame.


----------



## 13713

archeryc said:


> Has anyone try V281 with Utopia combo? How do u feel?




I have on my 281 they are amazing.


----------



## sahmen

archeryc said:


> Has anyone try V281 with Utopia combo? How do u feel?


 
 How about a DAC?  Wouldn't that matter too?  The optional DAC that comes with the V281 is not one of the best, I hear. So I did not order one with mine, which is currently attached to an Yggy.  Just wondering.


----------



## phase0

sahmen said:


> How about a DAC?  Wouldn't that matter too?  The optional DAC that comes with the V281 is not one of the best, I hear. So I did not order one with mine, which is currently attached to an Yggy.  Just wondering.


 
  
 I'm running a Yggy w/ V281 and Utopia. It's great. I've heard some people say they can't tell a difference with DACs. I'm pretty happy with the setup. I felt like the Yggy made a difference and was worth it. I don't think I'm missing anything at this point. So I suppose that's end game. What Badas said back there


----------



## Yoga

Nice to know (V281). I have one arriving next week and will be auditioning the Utopia.


----------



## Badas

Can anyone recommend a good XLR extender cable to use with the V281?

I have a cable 4 meters long that works great with my Woo WA22 but screws the circuit on the V281. Causes overload fault and if you remove one input signal it still makes music on both sides. It gets really screwy. Remove the extender and everything is fine.


----------



## mulder01

Didn't Fried offer to make you something suitable?  At least you're guaranteed it will work, and Violectric doesn't charge excessive amounts for their cables.


----------



## Badas

mulder01 said:


> Didn't Fried offer to make you something suitable?  At least you're guaranteed it will work, and Violectric doesn't charge excessive amounts for their cables.




Yes he did. However I live on the other side of the world. Shipping made it crazy.


----------



## zhgutov

badas said:


> Can anyone recommend a good XLR extender cable to use with the V281?
> 
> I have a cable 4 meters long that works great with my Woo WA22 but screws the circuit on the V281. Causes overload fault and if you remove one input signal it still makes music on both sides. It gets really screwy. Remove the extender and everything is fine.


 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Audeze-AKG-extension-cable-4-pin-XLR-M-to-4-pin-XLR-F-Van-Damme-/142206523760?var=&hash=item211c2b5970&rmvSB=true
 Is this your cable?
  
 Your specs:

 *Wiring Specification:*​ *HEADPHONE CABLE BALANCED** - STEREO*​ 4-pin XLR



4-pin XLRPIN 1



PIN 1: +LIFE / LEFT CHANNELPIN 2



PIN 2: GROUND / SHIELDPIN 3



PIN 3: +LIFE / RIGHT CHANNELPIN 4



PIN 4: GROUND / SHIELD
  
 As I can see, there are two pins connected together: pin 2 and pin 4.
 This is not correct, you need four independent wires, and the shield/case should not be connected to any pin!
 I think, this is the main reason of your problem. Just get correct cable and be happy 
  
 Wiring specs from V281 manual:


----------



## Badas

zhgutov said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Audeze-AKG-extension-cable-4-pin-XLR-M-to-4-pin-XLR-F-Van-Damme-/142206523760?var=&hash=item211c2b5970&rmvSB=true
> Is this your cable?
> 
> Your specs:
> ...




Yip. You guessed right. That's the cable I have. It screws the left and right signals. Interestingly it doesn't screw the Woo WA22 signals so I can carry on using the cables with that amp.

I can't find any one local to make me a cable. I may just pay the price from Violectric. Is there any other options on eBay that would work?


----------



## zhgutov

badas said:


> Interestingly it doesn't screw the Woo WA22 signals so I can carry on using the cables with that amp.


 
  
 Maybe that's because Woo has ~70 Ohm output impedance. V281 has much less than 1 Ohm. Maybe this is because of circuitry design... I don't know exactly.
  
 Somehow I am afraid of eBay solutions. There are microphone cables or something without any specs which I want to see.
 The first thing I changed in my system was the XLR microphone cable (Schultz).
 The second cable was Supra EFF-IXLR. It was made with pin1 connected to the case of the connector.
 I disconnected the case from pin1, and finally I changed it too. I'm telling about 3-pin XLR from DAC to AMP.
 With the 4-pin XLR there are much less variants to choose from.
 And I think there are much more ways to buy something wrong.
  
 I think, in this case, guys from Violectric can make correct and, maybe, the best thing for you.
 But maybe someone else knows something what I don't know.


----------



## project86

For those who were interested in my thoughts on the Simaudio 430HA (I think there were a few of you), and why I prefer the V281 - http://www.head-fi.org/products/simaudio-moon-neo-430ha/reviews/17692


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> Nice to know (V281). I have one arriving next week and will be auditioning the Utopia.


 
  
 Good work man - hope you like it!
 Well, hope you like both!


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Good work man - hope you like it!
> Well, hope you like both!


 

 Holy ****!
  

  
 V281 arrived today. Straight off the bat it's blown my mind with the HD800. Posted this in the HD800 thread:
  
_"Effortless sound! Soundstage is wide, bass is ridiculously tight, deep and fast (I'm using SWR3 of course). Edges are clear without any 'crunch' to them; definition and resolution is off the charts. All while being coherent and organic!"_
  
 Thanks @project86 for making me get this amp.

 Time to try the Abyss :¬)


----------



## Fegefeuer

What's SWR3? It's a German radio station.

Which balanced hd 800 cable did you get? V281 shows its true colors once you go balanced on it. Looking forward to your experience.


----------



## Yoga

fegefeuer said:


> What's SWR3? It's a German radio station.
> 
> Which balanced hd 800 cable did you get? V281 shows its true colors once you go balanced on it. Looking forward to your experience.


 

 Sonarworks Reference 3. _Completely_ transforms the HD800 for the better.
  
 http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/
  
 I've gone for Lavri Cables this time around:
  
 http://www.lavricables.com/cables/master-silver-sennheiser-hd800-upgrade-cable/

 On its way to me as we speak :¬)


----------



## Yoga

Update - drives the Abyss with authority and control with tons of headroom, even at my loudest listening levels (75dB).
  
 I have found my reference SS amp! Here to stay.


----------



## SuperDuke

My V281 is on the way.  I'll report back w/ Utopia impressions.  Also be interesting to hear how my HE6 sounds - glowing review from Inner fidelity w/ that combo.


----------



## Yoga

superduke said:


> My V281 is on the way.  I'll report back w/ Utopia impressions.  Also be interesting to hear how my HE6 sounds - glowing review from Inner fidelity w/ that combo.


 

 Look forward to your impressions dude. I've read a few very good things about Utopia + V281. Can't wait to try myself!


----------



## Kramer01

Hi
  
 How much power does it output into 300 Ohm headphones?? I can't seem to find that statistic anywhere.


----------



## Kramer01

Has anyone tried the T1v2 and the HD650 with this amp??


----------



## sahmen

kramer01 said:


> Hi
> 
> How much power does it output into 300 Ohm headphones?? I can't seem to find that statistic anywhere.


 
 I do not know for sure, but it does output more than enough power, and that's guaranteed. You can check out some more technical specs on the left bottom half of *this page* (you will have to scroll down the page)


----------



## sahmen

kramer01 said:


> Has anyone tried the T1v2 and the HD650 with this amp??


 
 I tried it with the T1v1 (600 ohms), and it was brilliant. I have never had the chance to try it with the HD650, but from the viewpoint of power output, the v281 has more than enough, and I am sure it will do very well with it.


----------



## project86

I use it with the Massdrop HD6XX and the original HD650 as well (same sound, slightly different appearance). Excellent sound. Very open compared to a lot of other amps which seem to reinforce the old "Sennheiser Veil" concept.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## mulder01

kramer01 said:


> Hi
> 
> How much power does it output into 300 Ohm headphones?? I can't seem to find that statistic anywhere.


 
  
 Well, if it does 5.6w into 100 ohms and 2.7w into 600 ohms, you can be pretty sure it has enough power to blow your ears off into 300 ohms.


----------



## jmac1516

v281 is a fantastic performer with 650 and a few other cans I have tried it with. Including 800S. Never fails to put a smile on my face.


----------



## Kramer01

sahmen said:


> I tried it with the T1v1 (600 ohms), and it was brilliant. I have never had the chance to try it with the HD650, but from the viewpoint of power output, the v281 has more than enough, and I am sure it will do very well with it.




I'm assuming you used the balanced out??


----------



## sahmen

kramer01 said:


> I'm assuming you used the balanced out??


 
 Yes, balanced out.  I had the cable on my T1 v1 detachable-modded and re-terminated with a 4-pin XLR connector for that.


----------



## sanjeewasam

Has anyone compared V281/V850 with Audio GD NOS11?.
  
 I have V281/V850 fully balanced all the way (well passed break in period). Before this I was using Mojo-> Luxman P200 for HD800. My listening is mainly for HD800. Whilst V281/V850 is slightly better (sound stage of V850> Mojo but for Dynamics Mojo> V850) and Luxman is more smooth vs V281 and V281 has other good qualities so the overall improvement is marginal and nothing much to talk about when compared to money spend including to get balanced cables.
  
 I am wondering if Audio GD NOS11 (master 9 AMP+ NOS7 DAC) be significant improvement. Money-wise NOS11 is cheaper but there are many reviews to say NOS7 and Mater 9 are top class. Most people agree that Vio units does not delivery value for money compared to units like Audio GD so I do not want to take more money is better


----------



## ab_ba

Hey all,
  
 I've just undertaken some MAJOR rig upgrades. I bought a Clearaudio Concept turntable, a Violectric PPA V600 phono stage, AND, a pair of Focal Utopias. 
  
 My V281 is still the centerpiece, but these updates have brought me to a whole new level of musical delight. 
  
 I just posted my review of the Focal Utopia. I can say that the synergy with the V281 is absolutely phenomenal.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/focal-utopia/reviews/17726
  
 -Aaron


----------



## jmac1516

ab_ba said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I've just undertaken some MAJOR rig upgrades. I bought a Clearaudio Concept turntable, a Violectric PPA V600 phono stage, AND, a pair of Focal Utopias.
> 
> ...


 
 Looks awesome and I'll bet it sounds even better!


----------



## Fegefeuer

yoga said:


> Sonarworks Reference 3. _Completely_ transforms the HD800 for the better.
> 
> http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/
> 
> ...


 
  
 So, what are your impressions once you went balanced?


----------



## Yoga

fegefeuer said:


> So, what are your impressions once you went balanced?


 

 The cable only arrived this morning...
  


 ... however the upgrade is significant. More so than I anticipated. Extra control, air and dynamic punch. Lavri recommend 150 hours burn in for this silver (pure 12 core 6N) cable, so I look forward to further improvements.

 I've also had more time to spend with the V281 + Abyss (balanced), and again, it's been stellar. 
  
 Thoroughly happy with this amp, best I've heard to date. Bear in mind transparency is key for me being a music producer/mixer.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Did you play around with the pre-gain? 0db vs -12db? Curious about your findings. Take your time though, there's plenty to hear now.


----------



## Yoga

fegefeuer said:


> Did you play around with the pre-gain? 0db vs -12db? Curious about your findings. Take your time though, there's plenty to hear now.


 

 Not yet. I will do however as I'm hitting my personal maximum volume (around 75dB) rather quickly (9:30 to 10 o'clock). A bit more fine control of volume is needed.
  
 I'll spend more time with it as it is so my ears are fully used to it. I'll likely wait for the cable to burn in also as that could potentially skew the experience.


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> Thoroughly happy with this amp, best I've heard to date.


 
  
 Better than the 600i though?


----------



## project86

mulder01 said:


> Better than the 600i though?


 
  
  
 Speakers versus headphones - not really a fair comparison.


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Better than the 600i though?


 
  
 I think it's close. I'm not able to directly A/B at the moment as the headphone rig is setup in the study, the V281 is in the studio. _If_ my memory serves me correctly, the 600i has better mids (although I think that's the combination of the 600i + Lumin A1, my monitoring DACs are more transparent). I've since started using a custom EQ with the V281 and Abyss which is rather delicious however! I'd be happy with the V281 as my Abyss amp. 
  


project86 said:


> Speakers versus headphones - not really a fair comparison.


 
  
 I have a custom cable for Abyss to 600i.


----------



## gonzfi

yoga said:


> The cable only arrived this morning...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I spy an RME ADI 2 PRO in your setup... is that your main DAC? Care to comment on it as I am considering getting one myself.


----------



## Yoga

gonzfi said:


> I spy an RME ADI 2 PRO in your setup... is that your main DAC? Care to comment on it as I am considering getting one myself.


 

 Well spotted! Auditioning it as we speak. Takes a little while to burn in, and the Slow filter is much nicer (smoother) than the default Fast filter. 
  
 It's _incredibly_ good. DA and AD ability competes with much more expensive single units. Headphone amp is very capable too. Not sure how RME managed to do it. I won't be keeping it though as I need a monitor controller (going for the Avocett IIA as the new Quantum DAC is consistently reported as sublime).

 If you're building a studio and need a single centrepiece, this thing cannot be beaten. And it's tiny!


----------



## gonzfi

yoga said:


> Well spotted! Auditioning it as we speak. Takes a little while to burn in, and the Slow filter is much nicer (smoother) than the default Fast filter.
> 
> It's _incredibly_ good. DA and AD ability competes with much more expensive single units. Headphone amp is very capable too. Not sure how RME managed to do it. I won't be keeping it though as I need a monitor controller (going for the Avocett IIA as the new Quantum DAC is consistently reported as sublime).
> 
> ...



It certainly looks very capable and reasonably priced. I may sell my Hugo TT and replace it with one of these and spend the difference on some new cans!


----------



## Yoga

gonzfi said:


> It certainly looks very capable and reasonably priced. I may sell my Hugo TT and replace it with one of these and spend the difference on some new cans!


 
  
 If you're able to get a 30 day return window on a purchase let it burn in for a few days before undertaking any critical listening. Harsh out of the box.

 The filters make subtle but significant changes to the sound. A few people over at Gearslutz are preferring the Slow (or even NOS) filters.


----------



## SuperDuke

More praise for the V281.  I have never heard the HE6 sound as good. I am using balanced configuration w/ COS H1 DAC.  It's remarkable.  I've used many speaker amps including Pass clone, Class D,  Bottlehead 2A3, 6L6 and EL34 w/ the HE6 and none of them had this kind of control and detail and musicality.   Earth shaking but tight accurate bass and the widest stage I've heard from the HE6 yet with delicate beautiful detail.  I keep seeing the HE6 revisited in reviews of other equipment where the authors state they had forgotten what a world class HP it is.  I'd have to agree but with the caveat "only w/ the right amp" and  the V281 seems to be one hec of an AMP for the HE6. 
  
 I hope I'm not a victim of "new equipment" euphoria. To me this amp sounds so different (w/ balanced output) from what I've previously heard It seems there is something unique going on.
 (perhaps the hi voltage output which seems to be multiple times what is commonly used in headamps -I'm not knowledgeable enough to  comment accurately on that though)
  
 More to follow w/ the HD800S and Utopia.


----------



## gonzfi

yoga said:


> If you're able to get a 30 day return window on a purchase let it burn in for a few days before undertaking any critical listening. Harsh out of the box.
> 
> 
> The filters make subtle but significant changes to the sound. A few people over at Gearslutz are preferring the Slow (or even NOS) filters.



1 quick question (not the right thread really).... is the usb galvanically isolated do you know?
Ta


----------



## Yoga

superduke said:


> More praise for the V281.  I have never heard the HE6 sound as good. I am using balanced configuration w/ COS H1 DAC.  It's remarkable.  I've used many speaker amps including Pass clone, Class D,  Bottlehead 2A3, 6L6 and EL34 w/ the HE6 and none of them had this kind of control and detail and musicality.   Earth shaking but tight accurate bass and the widest stage I've heard from the HE6 yet with delicate beautiful detail.  I keep seeing the HE6 revisited in reviews of other equipment where the authors state they had forgotten what a world class HP it is.  I'd have to agree but with the caveat "only w/ the right amp" and  the V281 seems to be one hec of an AMP for the HE6.
> 
> I hope I'm not a victim of "new equipment" euphoria. To me this amp sounds so different (w/ balanced output) from what I've previously heard It seems there is something unique going on.
> (perhaps the hi voltage output which seems to be multiple times what is commonly used in headamps -I'm not knowledgeable enough to  comment accurately on that though)
> ...


 
  
 You're in luck, V281 is reported to be amazing with the Utopia also. Certainly is with the HD800! 
  


gonzfi said:


> 1 quick question (not the right thread really).... is the usb galvanically isolated do you know?
> Ta


 
  
 No idea buddy!


----------



## Fegefeuer

superduke said:


> More praise for the V281.  I have never heard the HE6 sound as good. I am using balanced configuration w/ COS H1 DAC.  It's remarkable.  I've used many speaker amps including Pass clone, Class D,  Bottlehead 2A3, 6L6 and EL34 w/ the HE6 and none of them had this kind of control and detail and musicality.   Earth shaking but tight accurate bass and the widest stage I've heard from the HE6 yet with delicate beautiful detail.  I keep seeing the HE6 revisited in reviews of other equipment where the authors state they had forgotten what a world class HP it is.  I'd have to agree but with the caveat "only w/ the right amp" and  the V281 seems to be one hec of an AMP for the HE6.
> 
> I hope I'm not a victim of "new equipment" euphoria. To me this amp sounds so different (w/ balanced output) from what I've previously heard It seems there is something unique going on.
> (perhaps the hi voltage output which seems to be multiple times what is commonly used in headamps -I'm not knowledgeable enough to  comment accurately on that though)
> ...


 
  
 Unfortunately I can only relate to the HD800 experiences as I never owned a HE6 long enough with an adequate amp. Looking forward to further impressions.


----------



## phase0

yoga said:


> It's _incredibly_ good. DA and AD ability competes with much more expensive single units. Headphone amp is very capable too. Not sure how RME managed to do it. I won't be keeping it though as I need a monitor controller (going for the Avocett IIA as the new Quantum DAC is consistently reported as sublime).
> 
> If you're building a studio and need a single centrepiece, this thing cannot be beaten. And it's tiny!


 
  
 I did a couple searches and skimmed a thread on Gearslutz someone summarized a review:
http://headfonics.com/2016/12/the-adi-2-pro-by-rme/
  


> 1. The ADI-2 Pro sounded better on the DA-side than the Chord Hugo DAC (retails for $2000.00). 2. The ADI-2 Pro was slightly *inferior* (though very close) to the *Lake People RS 08 headphone amp* (retails for around $1000.00).


 
  
 An assumption on my part but I'm extrapolating that the V281 is sounds better based on that comment since Violectric and Lake People are the same people. It does look like a good replacement for the RME Babyface which I sold and now the V281 is filling that void (along with the Yggdrasil for the DA portion).


----------



## Yoga

phase0 said:


> I did a couple searches and skimmed a thread on Gearslutz someone summarized a review:
> http://headfonics.com/2016/12/the-adi-2-pro-by-rme/
> 
> An assumption on my part but I'm extrapolating that the V281 is sounds better based on that comment since Violectric and Lake People are the same people. It does look like a good replacement for the RME Babyface which I sold and now the V281 is filling that void (along with the Yggdrasil for the DA portion).


 
  
 The V281 beats the ADI2P hands down with my main cans (Abyss and HD800). Still can't believe how good this amp is, and for the price it's a relative bargain in the high end headphone world. I bet the Yggy is a great partner for it. If not for my hub being a studio I'd probably try that again.


----------



## zhgutov

yoga said:


> Thoroughly happy with this amp, best I've heard to date. Bear in mind transparency is key for me being a music producer/mixer.


 
  
 Have you tried V281 as preamp for your monitors?


----------



## Yoga

zhgutov said:


> Have you tried V281 as preamp for your monitors?


 

 Using it as we speak. Sounds great. I'll be able to A/B properly when my monitor controller arrives (next month now unfortunately).


----------



## Kramer01

Thank You for the reply.
@jmac1516 What is the name/brand name of the XLR interconnect?


----------



## Kramer01

sahmen said:


> Yes, balanced out.  I had the cable on my T1 v1 detachable-modded and re-terminated with a 4-pin XLR connector for that.


 
  
 Cool.
 I think the T1 requires some break/burn in to sound its best. Haven't listened to the T1v1 but the v2 is a mighty fine HP IMHO. I will go for an inexpensive aftermarket XLR cable when I buy the V281


----------



## Kramer01

sahmen said:


> I do not know for sure, but it does output more than enough power, and that's guaranteed. You can check out some more technical specs on the left bottom half of *this page* (you will have to scroll down the page)


 
  
@sahmen Yes I know the V281 has more than enough power but still its fun to know the exact figure. I have been looking for a no compromise amp and I know the V281 is it.
 I have read a lot of user reviews and every expert review out there on it and I know this amp will fit my needs perfectly.
 
I emailed violectric and got a reply from Fried 
 
"V281 will deliver 3000 mW into 300 Ohm load.
V281 will deliver 1200 mW into 300 Ohm on each of both phone jack sockets !! "


----------



## Kramer01

Has anyone tried powering two 650's or two HD800's from the SE jacks at the same time? Since the V281 has 4 amps can it should be able to drive 2 HPs of the same model in one go. Or is only 1 jack "on" when using either SE jack?


----------



## PleasantSounds

You can use two headphones simultaneously and they don't need to be the same model - as long as you can deal with differences in loudness.


----------



## Kramer01

project86 said:


> I use it with the Massdrop HD6XX and the original HD650 as well (same sound, slightly different appearance). Excellent sound. Very open compared to a lot of other amps which seem to reinforce the old "Sennheiser Veil" concept.


 
@project86 Thanks for the reply. I never found the HD650 to be veiled, slightly lacking clarity compared to the best out there, yes and a polite top end but never veiled. I use it with the Burson Conductor 1st gen and that was an improvement over the HA160D. Did you use the HD650/6XX in balanced mode? Does balanced mode provide a significant improvement over SE? I have only listened to the 650 on SE amps.


----------



## Kramer01

@PleasantSounds
  
 Thanks for the reply.  I'm assuming If they are the same model then the volume would be equal as well. This would be great for me personally since my friend also has a 650 and we both can listen at the same time. No more waiting.


----------



## Kramer01

@PleasantSounds
  
 Have you used the MoJo as a DAC with the V281? does it perform well?


----------



## Yoga

kramer01 said:


> @PleasantSounds
> 
> Thanks for the reply.  I'm assuming If they are the same model then the volume would be equal as well. This would be great for me personally since my friend also has a 650 and we both can listen at the same time. No more waiting.


 

 V281 will drive 2x HD650 without lifting a finger :¬)


----------



## Kramer01

@socks mk2 @mulder01 Thanks for the reply guys.
  
 Yes I know the V281 has more than enough power but still its fun to know the exact figure. I have been looking for a no compromise amp and I know the V281 is it.
 I have read a lot of user reviews and every expert review out there on it and I know this amp will fit my needs perfectly. 
  
I emailed violectric.de and got a reply from Fried 
  
"V281 will deliver 3000 mW into 300 Ohm load.
V281 will deliver 1200 mW into 300 Ohm on each of both phone jack sockets !! "


----------



## Kramer01




----------



## PleasantSounds

kramer01 said:


> @PleasantSounds
> 
> Have you used the MoJo as a DAC with the V281? does it perform well?


 
  
 I have tried Mojo with the V281 but haven't done any direct comparisons with other DACs. The combo performed quite admirably with no issues whatsoever.


----------



## project86

kramer01 said:


> @project86 Thanks for the reply. I never found the HD650 to be veiled, slightly lacking clarity compared to the best out there, yes and a polite top end but never veiled. I use it with the Burson Conductor 1st gen and that was an improvement over the HA160D. Did you use the HD650/6XX in balanced mode? Does balanced mode provide a significant improvement over SE? I have only listened to the 650 on SE amps.


 
  
  
 It's good on SE and even better on balanced. Not as large of a difference as with some other headphones though.


----------



## jmac1516

These are Violectric XLRs. Only ones I have used on the v281 set up so can't comment on any differences to more mainstream cables. But the build quality is excellent and they look cool!


----------



## Kramer01

Thanks .


----------



## Kramer01

pleasantsounds said:


> I have tried Mojo with the V281 but haven't done any direct comparisons with other DACs. The combo performed quite admirably with no issues whatsoever.


 
 Nice to know. I don't have a full size DAC but it looks like the mojo will do for now.


----------



## Kramer01

@jmac1516
  





 HaHa. It was the purple color that attracted me to the cables in the first place.


----------



## SuperDuke

Has anyone tried the optional Burr Brown DAC (24/192) in their V281?  Maybe not as nice as many standalone DACs.  I really like the one box units now.  May give it a go


----------



## Yoga

superduke said:


> Has anyone tried the optional Burr Brown DAC (24/192) in their V281?  Maybe not as nice as many standalone DACs.  I really like the one box units now.  May give it a go


 

 I've not tried it myself, but from what I've read online it's not up to par with the amplification. You're much better off pairing it with a capable DAC.


----------



## project86

superduke said:


> Has anyone tried the optional Burr Brown DAC (24/192) in their V281?  Maybe not as nice as many standalone DACs.  I really like the one box units now.  May give it a go


 
  
  
 It's not terrible, but not amazing either. I'd say it's actually pretty good if judged by the price alone - not many sub-$300 DACs sounds halfway decent like the add-on card does. However, for the capabilities of this amp, it's not up to the level you need to take full advantage.


----------



## PleasantSounds

project86 said:


> superduke said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone tried the optional Burr Brown DAC (24/192) in their V281?  Maybe not as nice as many standalone DACs.  I really like the one box units now.  May give it a go
> ...


 
  
 I have the coax input version in mine and I would completely agree: for the price there's nothing wrong with this DAC card.
 On the other hand, the amp scales very well right up to the top of the ladder, so to do it justice you're looking at Yggy, M1, Pavane or something in that range.


----------



## sanjeewasam

kramer01 said:


> @PleasantSounds
> 
> Have you used the MoJo as a DAC with the V281? does it perform well?


 
 Yes I have done extensive checks Mojo->Vio V281 and Vio V850->Vio V281 with HD800 
  
 The difference is say <5%. Sound stage is slightly better with V850 connected Balanced to V281. And V850 laid back vs Mojo more dynamic
  
 I am not sure but V850 also very slightly more clearer /detailed but for all fairness I am using cheap RCA cable to connect Mojo not the decent XLRs from V850
  
 So I say Mojo is very good comparing the price and does perform very well. So do you need a dedicated like V850- depending on output options etc in V850 but very difficult to justify 2x price purely on sound improvement


----------



## sanjeewasam

Can anyone suggest gain settings for HD800 and HE6 out of V281 balanced mode that they found good. I am using V850 DAC from Vio that has volume controller and use 3 Clock for my listnings with no gain adjustments as of now


----------



## zhgutov

sanjeewasam said:


> Can anyone suggest gain settings for HD800 and HE6 out of V281 balanced mode that they found good. I am using V850 DAC from Vio that has volume controller and use 3 Clock for my listnings with no gain adjustments as of now


 

 I use XLR outputs of V800 @ 24 dBu, and V281 with -14 dB pre-gain.
 I think it is better to use the lowest possible level of pre-gain to get more precise/delicate sound.
 Measurements confirm that. In this case you get the lowest possible noise floor relative to the signal at normal listening levels.
  
 But you can check this by yourself and find the best settings.
 My guess is that with the HE6 you will find less or even no difference because the output levels are high anyway.
 It would be interesting if you can confirm my guess, I can not check this by myself.
  
 Also, Fried Reim recommends ~12 o'clock for normal listening levels.


----------



## sanjeewasam

zhgutov said:


> I use XLR outputs of V800 @ 24 dBu, and V281 with -14 dB pre-gain.
> I think it is better to use the lowest possible level of pre-gain to get more precise/delicate sound.
> Measurements confirm that. In this case you get the lowest possible noise floor relative to the signal at normal listening levels.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks. How to get 24dbu in V800/V850. What should I change? Do I have to open the cover? Not sure what the default settings are
  
 In V281 gains are as per -12,-6,0,+6 and +12 so not sure how you get -14db?. I think default being 0. Isn't - gains meant for IEMs?
  
 from the manual
 Nominal input sensitivity:  +6 dBu
 Amplifier gain:  +8 dB unbal. / 14 dB bal.
 PRE-GAIN:  -12 / -6 / 0 / +6 / +12 dB
  
 Thanks


----------



## phonomat

(-12) + (-6) = -14

I know it sounds strange, but in this case it's true.


----------



## mulder01

I thought you were only meant to use one set of gain dip switches at a time?


----------



## zhgutov

sanjeewasam said:


> How to get 24dbu in V800/V850. What should I change? Do I have to open the cover? Not sure what the default settings are
> 
> In V281 gains are as per -12,-6,0,+6 and +12 so not sure how you get -14db?


 
 You need to open V850 to get 24 dBu. The default level for XLR outputs is 15 dBu.
 Yes, you need to turn both -12 dB and -6 dB switches up to get -14 dB.
  
 I think pre-gain for the negative values works the same way as the volume control.
 Just another attenuator with the op-amp to get low impedance.
 And I think this way you can get the maximum level through the unit because you turn the volume up.
 At the 12 o'clock you have ~ -18 dB attenuation (for the default volume control option).


----------



## Yoga

You should not be flipping more than one dip switch at a time.
  

 The pre gain only seems to work for headphones (not the preamp outs) so it's rendered useless if you also use monitors/speakers.
  
 I prefer to leave things at unity gain (0) anyway for SPL calibration.


----------



## zhgutov

yoga said:


> You should not be flipping more than one dip switch at a time.
> 
> 
> The pre gain only seems to work for headphones (not the preamp outs) so it's rendered useless if you also use monitors/speakers.


 
  
 You can use more than one switch at a time. Look at this:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/551173/review-violectric-hpa-v200-amp/2790#post_11953757
http://www.head-fi.org/t/551173/review-violectric-hpa-v200-amp/2790#post_11956030
  
 This pre-gain affects the headphones only, but you have almost the same thing on the line out PCB.
 The same DIP switches, but the different op-amps.


----------



## Yoga

zhgutov said:


> You can use more than one switch at a time. Look at this:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/551173/review-violectric-hpa-v200-amp/2790#post_11953757
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/551173/review-violectric-hpa-v200-amp/2790#post_11956030
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks. I won't be opening it up though, unity gain is essential in a studio environment.
  
 Strange that the V281 manual and CEO contradict each other.


----------



## zhgutov

yoga said:


> unity gain is essential in a studio environment.
> 
> Strange that the V281 manual and CEO contradict each other.


 
  
 Why unity gain is essential in this case if another settings can make the noise floor lower? Especially if you have the volume control anyway.
  
 I think the manual tells that for safety, and to prevent usage of the strange settings.
  
 And... I have another thing to say about your monitors.
 They are completely digital, right? So, they have ADC and DAC inside.
 In this case the preamp is useless, because you should have the volume control on the monitors.
 And your monitors work like the ADC - you feed the level as close as possible to 0 dBFS to get the best.
 So, I think you can set the appropriate level on the line out PCB and disable the volume control for the pre-amp at all.
 But I think, it may be hard to feel the difference in your case, because every peace of equipment is very high quality.
  
 I don't have the expensive monitors, just two different, cheap "computer" speakers.
 In my case it's easy to find that for the speakers with the analog implementation V281 has much better pre-amp.
 In this case it is better to use the volume control on the V281, and turn the volume to the maximum on the speakers.
 But for the speakers with the digital implementation, like in your case, it is better to use the level close to 0 dBFS.


----------



## Yoga

zhgutov said:


> Why unity gain is essential in this case if another settings can make the noise floor lower? Especially if you have the volume control anyway.
> 
> I think the manual tells that for safety, and to prevent usage of the strange settings.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Noise floor is completely black throughout the range.
  
 Volume control on the monitors - are you serious? No pro studios in the world do that, they use monitor controllers and match the gain for each set as to swap between them at identical sound levels. Controlling each speaker separately would be a workflow nightmare.
  
 I have the Crane Song Avocett IIA (monitor controller) coming for that very reason. The V281 is a stand-in preamp until it arrives next month.


----------



## zhgutov

yoga said:


> Noise floor is completely black throughout the range.
> 
> Volume control on the monitors - are you serious? No pro studios in the world do that, they use monitor controllers and match the gain for each set as to swap between them at identical sound levels. Controlling each speaker separately would be a workflow nightmare.
> 
> I have the Crane Song Avocett IIA (monitor controller) coming for that very reason. The V281 is a stand-in preamp until it arrives next month.


 
  
 Yes, there is no audible noise, but I think it has something to do with the signal. Or maybe there is another reason.
  
 I know, it is not the useful solution in the studio. That's why I can not understand the digital implementation inside the speakers at all.
 Why to use DAC > preamp > ADC > DSP > DAC > preamp chain? Isn't it overcomplicated?


----------



## Yoga

zhgutov said:


> Yes, there is no audible noise, but I think it has something to do with the signal. Or maybe there is another reason.
> 
> I know, it is not the useful solution in the studio. That's why I can not understand the digital implementation inside the speakers at all.
> Why to use DAC > preamp > ADC > DSP > DAC > preamp chain? Isn't it overcomplicated?


 

 It depends on the quality of the monitors. Those with DSP have integrated amplifiers which are meticulously tuned to the software and transducers. The IO of the signal is easily measured and calibrated (null testing for example) pre and post DSP.
  
 You can use AES also, direct from monitor controllers to the speakers or amp.

 Also worth noting: audiophiles can be obsessive and packed with subjective ideas, beliefs and biases. Anyone worth their salt performs double blind A/B (and preferably null) testing with gear. Power cables for example. Don't tell me how they sound different, show me the damn null test! A transducer can only work with the fed signal. A zero null test = identical sound. Anything else you really should not accept as fact. You'd be surprised how easy it is for the mind to persuade itself that X is better than Y.
  
 Been there and done it myself :¬)


----------



## Kramer01

sanjeewasam said:


> So I say Mojo is very good comparing the price and does perform very well. So do you need a dedicated like V850- depending on output options etc in V850 but very difficult to justify 2x price purely on sound improvement


 
 Thanks for the reply.
  
 I will buy something like a Yggy or used Hugo TT(if I get a good deal on it) and go fully balanced as soon as the wallet allows it but I know the Mojo is a great DAC so I don't think I'll lose out on a lot of performance.


----------



## SuperDuke

sanjeewasam said:


> Can anyone suggest gain settings for HD800 and HE6 out of V281 balanced mode that they found good. I am using V850 DAC from Vio that has volume controller and use 3 Clock for my listnings with no gain adjustments as of now


 
 I used +12 db on the V281 for my HE6 and found I had plenty of range w/ the volume.  For my HD800S I think the +12db setting was too much for useful range on the volume.


----------



## 3083joe

I have found that the v281 with most all headphones aside from HFman and others like it. Level to +6 is perfect. I also notice that you have to get above 1/4 of the volume to get even consistent sound.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Recently we have seen many posts relating to the recommended gain settings for specific headphones, and the recommendations vary quite wildly. It is important to realise that there's no one universal setting that will suit everyone, as there are several more variables that impact it, e.g.:
 - strength of the input signal
 - listening volume preference
  
 The best approach is to set it to one's own preferences, taking the following into consideration:
 - if your input signal can be regulated, you should keep it relatively high. This will ensure that noise and interferences picked up by the cables as well as the noise level of the amp will be kept to the minimum. V281 is quite tolerant of strong signals, so there's minimal risk of overloading the input.
 - keep the gain settings as low as possible, while ensuring that the volume pot has enough of useful range. Ideally your regular listening volume should be around 12 o'clock. If you have several headphones with varying sensitivity, set it so that the more sensitive hp (i.e. the one requiring less power) is around 12 o'clock and crank up the volume for the other one (of course if there's not enough volume for the more power hungry hp, you will have to increase the gain). You should avoid using very low volume pot settings - below 9 o'clock you won't have enough range to precisely set the volume, and channel imbalance is more likely to occur.


----------



## Badas

That is the best advise I have seen for the setting up of a V281.


----------



## Fegefeuer

indeed. added to the first page


----------



## Yoga

I wish those back dip switches were applicable to the XLR out also.


----------



## ArthurPower

yoga said:


> I wish those back dip switches were applicable to the XLR out also.




Internally there are gain switches on the output board if you need to adjust the XLR and RCA output level.


----------



## ArthurPower

*PleasantSounds* Customers ask me all the time how the gain switches should be set. It's a constant source of confusion. Thank you for the excellent instructions and explanation. I couldn't of said it better myself.


----------



## PleasantSounds

arthurpower said:


> *PleasantSounds* Customers ask me all the time how the gain switches should be set. It's a constant source of confusion. Thank you for the excellent instructions and explanation. I couldn't of said it better myself.


 
  
 My pleasure.
 All I wanted to show was that the gain switch settings don't have to be hit or miss affair and there's a method to do it so that you maximize the potential of the amp. Hopefully it will help someone.


----------



## zappazappazappa

I have the manual volume version of the V281 but am wishing I'd bought a remote volume version. Is it possible to have the amp upgraded to the remote volume version (preferably stepped ladder)?


----------



## 13713

zappazappazappa said:


> I have the manual volume version of the V281 but am wishing I'd bought a remote volume version. Is it possible to have the amp upgraded to the remote volume version (preferably stepped ladder)?




I do not see why not. I can imagine they would be able to upgrade for parts and service fee. Contact Violectric directly or the company you purchased it from.


----------



## phonomat

Yes, I'm quite positive it's possible. Fried Reim will sort you out.


----------



## Mist3rLao

My V281 is actually with ArthurPower right now, since I got the upgraded relay volume installed. Plus, he was also gracious enough to hook me up with a good powder coating company, since I want that all black finish, but didn't want to have it painted. Pretty excited with the finished product since the quality of the finish is supposed to look better than the original one!


----------



## phonomat

So you bought the silver V281 and have it coated in black?


----------



## Mist3rLao

I got the black one, but I want it to look all black so I'm having the gray parts powder coated.


----------



## phonomat

Aaaah, gotcha! Now that makes sense.


----------



## zappazappazappa

Thanks for your replies. I'll contact Violectric  for a quote.


----------



## 13713

mist3rlao said:


> I got the black one, but I want it to look all black so I'm having the gray parts powder coated.




Now I have to do this. I didn't even think of that.


----------



## Badas

mist3rlao said:


> I got the black one, but I want it to look all black so I'm having the gray parts powder coated.


 

 That's not as easy as it looks. You have to remove the front and back panels to separate the covers. Risk of doing damage.


----------



## Mist3rLao

Violectric USA is taking care of everything, so I trust that they know their stuff pretty well.


----------



## Badas

mist3rlao said:


> Violectric USA is taking care of everything, so I trust that they know their stuff pretty well.


 

 Okay. That makes more sense.
  
 I've pulled apart a V281 before and I know that the frames are not easy to pull apart. Well built.
  
 Some pics from when I pulled it apart. Look how thick the frame is:
  

  

  
  
  
  
 I've thought about changing the colour as well. However I thought I would just vehicle wrap it.
  
 Post some pics when you get it.
  
 Lov mu V281. So much so I wonder why I have a tube amp.


----------



## Mist3rLao

Since I'm located halfway across the globe, it'll be a while before I get my hands on it. But, @ArthurPower said he's gonna post some pictures of what's gonna be the V(ader) 281! ha ha!


----------



## Khragon

I got a spare silver face plate, pm mr if interested in buying.


----------



## fonna

ordered this amp a few days ago, should be coming tomorrow.. so excited!


----------



## 13713

fonna said:


> ordered this amp a few days ago, should be coming tomorrow.. so excited!




I. Can't wait to hear how you like it. It is a truly amazing amp.


----------



## zhgutov

badas said:


> I've pulled apart a V281 before and I know that the frames are not easy to pull apart.


 
  
 You just got the relay volume control option?
 How do you find it?


----------



## Badas

zhgutov said:


> You just got the relay volume control option?
> How do you find it?


 

 I don't know because I haven't tried the other options. Works great for me. I sit 7 meters away and adjust the volume remotely. I programmed the remote codes into my universal remote so I can run everything off one remote. Works well.
  
 My whole system: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Badas
  
 You hear little clicks as you adjust the volume with no sound. With sound you don't tend to hear it. Clicks are kinda cool. Not loud.


----------



## 13713

Those clicks took me forever to get over. I thought I was crazy, then I thought it was broken... nothing is worse than when you have convinced yourself that the equipment you just purchased is broken and you start to believe you somehow broke it. I am used to the clicking now but it was quite the experience. 
  
 I just spent the weekend with a WA22 and although I liked it I think I am going to stay with my stack and just put that Woo money towards more music.


----------



## mulder01

badas said:


> I don't know because I haven't tried the other options. Works great for me. I sit 7 meters away and adjust the volume remotely. I programmed the remote codes into my universal remote so I can run everything off one remote. Works well.
> 
> My whole system: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Badas
> 
> You hear little clicks as you adjust the volume with no sound. With sound you don't tend to hear it. Clicks are kinda cool. Not loud.


 
  
 That is a cool mancave my friend.


----------



## Badas

13713 said:


> Those clicks took me forever to get over. I thought I was crazy, then I thought it was broken... nothing is worse than when you have convinced yourself that the equipment you just purchased is broken and you start to believe you somehow broke it. I am used to the clicking now but it was quite the experience.
> 
> I just spent the weekend with a WA22 and although I liked it I think I am going to stay with my stack and just put that Woo money towards more music.




In my opinion you aren't missing anything. To me the V281 outperforms the WA22 (even with Nos tubes installed).




mulder01 said:


> That is a cool mancave my friend.




Thanks. It is well used.


----------



## zhgutov

badas said:


> My whole system: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Badas


 
  
 Wow, New Zealand... Now I understand why you did not want to order the cable with delivery from Germany =)


----------



## Fegefeuer

Very nice room, you can sense and see all the passion and love, attention for detail.

I'm using the relais remote and I feel you 13713. It's so very unusual at first.


----------



## Badas

zhgutov said:


> Wow, New Zealand... *Now I understand why you did not want to order the cable with delivery from Germany* =)


 
  
 I did. I paid for it yesterday. There wasn't a lot of options for me here and in the end I figured it was best that I purchased the cable from the same company who makes the amp.


fegefeuer said:


> *Very nice room, you can sense and see all the passion and love, attention for detail.*
> 
> I'm using the relais remote and I feel you 13713. It's so very unusual at first.


 
 Thanks.
  
 I knew ahead of time that the volume control made clicks. So it didn't freak me out. If I hadn't of know it would have. I probably would have turned it off thinking there was a fault.


----------



## sanjeewasam

*Can anyone clarify what type of power supply that V281 has- Linear or switching.* I know V850 has linear power supply.
  
 Why I am asking is that I did follow audio hygiene series by The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel (you tube series on this). Hans recommend Linear power supplies.and as I know only component I am not sure having LPS is V281 
  
 After following the audio hygiene series I now have a decent chain
 a) power conditioner (BADA LB 3300)
 b) shielding power cables for V281/V850 (AU IEC Plug red copper adio OFC)
 c) V850->V281 via balanced  shielded cables (after market but oked by Fried Reim).
 d) Auralic Aries Mini Streamer With Jay's Audio LPS
 e) shielded 75ohms coax cable (oked by Fried Reim)
 f) Source- Sinology NAS 213j Flac collection and Tidal streaming via Aries mini connected wifi mode to my router
 g) HD800 ( balanced cable -  FURUKAWA PCOCC cable with black color Teflon sleeving, Swiss made Neutrik XLR stereo plug and 24k gold-plated connector pins).
 Sound good with impactful base and not fatiguing highs


----------



## ArthurPower

The Violectric V281 has a linear power supply with two toroidal transformers and a ton of filtering caps.


----------



## sanjeewasam

arthurpower said:


> The Violectric V281 has a linear power supply with two toroidal transformers and a ton of filtering caps.




Thanks mate for the info


----------



## mulder01

Does it sound better now that you know that?


----------



## sanjeewasam

mulder01 said:


> Does it sound better now that you know that?


 

 ​Of course not. I was just doing small tweaks and I know that audit is done and I have closed the small gaps. I have not spent a lot of money but thought about each component and used money more effectively- not going over the limit to get say $1k cables but leave other items unattended , Just ensured that I have some decent components in the full chain. I would consider spending much more on cables etc only if I ever decide to go for $10k+ Dac and similar amp etc as then I am going for the last say 1-2%.
  
 I was very skeptical about the audio hygiene thing first but it does make sense. If I moved to another house (say older one with not so good power cabling etc) then the system that I put in place now may still preform equally good - why leave doubts on small things


----------



## fonna

hey guys, the v281 came in yesterday, I'm using it with my Cambridge 851C DAC, running fully balanced with my HE-1000 v2's. I've listened for about 8-10 hours, and you guys were not wrong, this is a special amp. the touch of warmth that this amp adds to the music is just magical, I have never heard my HE-1000 v2's this good. great detail, very nice bass presentation, seems to be a really great combination for longer listening sessions aswell, no fatigue at all. I will continue to listen and post some more impressions, so far I'm very impressed!!


----------



## 13713

fonna said:


> hey guys, the v281 came in yesterday, I'm using it with my Cambridge 851C DAC, running fully balanced with my HE-1000 v2's. I've listened for about 8-10 hours, and you guys were not wrong, this is a special amp. the touch of warmth that this amp adds to the music is just magical, I have never heard my HE-1000 v2's this good. great detail, very nice bass presentation, seems to be a really great combination for longer listening sessions aswell, no fatigue at all. I will continue to listen and post some more impressions, so far I'm very impressed!!


 
 It really truly is crazy how good the amp is. I know those of us that own devices are usually very bias towards them but I am actually shocked how great the amp is. What do you like to listen to mostly?


----------



## fonna

13713 said:


> It really truly is crazy how good the amp is. I know those of us that own devices are usually very bias towards them but I am actually shocked how great the amp is. What do you like to listen to mostly?


 

 ​hey 13713, I listen to mostly old hip-hop music, rnb / funk and I also enjoy classical. yesterday I was listening to The Weeknd, the new album Starboy and the album Beauty Behind The Madness, was also listening to the new SOHN album, Rennen. Starboy is a very well recorded album IMO, specifically the songs "Secrets" and "I Feel It Coming". if you have any albums you can recommend me, please do. gonna be having some long listening sessions over the next few days.


----------



## project86

13713 said:


> It really truly is crazy how good the amp is. I know those of us that own devices are usually very bias towards them but I am actually shocked how great the amp is.


 
  
  
 Agreed. At any given moment I've got a half a dozen or more amps in my system. And at any given moment the V281 tends to be my favorite.


----------



## fonna

Yeah, my search is definitely over for now, this is such a great amplifier. the sound is so musical, easy to listen to. I sold off my HD800's a few months back because they sounded very bright on my EF-6, now I kinda wish I still had them here to test with the V281, can imagine it being a great pairing.


----------



## Badas

project86 said:


> Agreed. At any given moment I've got a half a dozen or more amps in my system. And at any given moment the V281 tends to be my favorite.




Yeah! Everytime I use the V281 I wonder why the heck I have an expensive tube amp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

That beautiful glow in the dark. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 at this year's High End Show I will try convince Fried again to build a tube amp.


Spoiler: :|



LIKE EVERY YEAR IT WON'T HAPPEN.


----------



## Yoga

fonna said:


> Yeah, my search is definitely over for now, this is such a great amplifier. the sound is so musical, easy to listen to. I sold off my HD800's a few months back because they sounded very bright on my EF-6, now I kinda wish I still had them here to test with the V281, can imagine it being a great pairing.


 

 V281 + HD800 + Balanced cable + Sonarworks Reference 3 = _incredible_ sound.

 Seriously. Completely transforms the HD800 into an absolute beast. Nothing can come close for that money (especially if you get the HD800 second hand).


----------



## zeissiez

yoga said:


> fonna said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, my search is definitely over for now, this is such a great amplifier. the sound is so musical, easy to listen to. I sold off my HD800's a few months back because they sounded very bright on my EF-6, now I kinda wish I still had them here to test with the V281, can imagine it being a great pairing.
> ...




How does SR3 work? What are the available host applications?


----------



## sanjeewasam

yoga said:


> V281 + HD800 + Balanced cable + Sonarworks Reference 3 = _incredible_ sound.
> 
> 
> Seriously. Completely transforms the HD800 into an absolute beast. Nothing can come close for that money (especially if you get the HD800 second hand).




Could u please explain how u use Sonarworks Reference 3. I did a trial with foorbar and jriver on win10 laptop and used Sonarworks Reference 3 standard hd800 calibration and it was not impressive at all. It just eq the thing which i could do with other add ons availble. I did not play with it much.


----------



## Yoga

zeissiez said:


> How does SR3 work? What are the available host applications?


 
  


sanjeewasam said:


> Could u please explain how u use Sonarworks Reference 3. I did a trial with foorbar and jriver on win10 laptop and used Sonarworks Reference 3 standard hd800 calibration and it was not impressive at all. It just eq the thing which i could do with other add ons availble. I did not play with it much.


 
  
 In the pro audio world, flat/neutral sound is the holy grail for production, mixing and mastering (especially the latter). Hence SW was born. It was initially designed to calibrate studio monitors within your own room (each room having individual sound characteristics / reflections etc). The SW then took multiple versions of the same headphone and took specific measurements of their frequency curves, giving them a very good average reading for each headphone. This allowed them to produce a curve that, when applied to the stock HD800 sound, would flatten it so the desired reference level.

 The HD800 in particular is _especially_ responsive to EQ, it scales like no other headphone. Quite remarkable. It's known for being bass light with a 6kHz treble peak, when you run it through SWR3 that character is completely changed to one that is very, very accurate. The bass it can produce is mind blowing! You still retain the massive soundstage and accurate tonality.

 The stock HD800 is not an accurate sounding headphone. You may be used to it, but that's as far as it goes. When you apply SWR3, it will at first sound a but dull in comparison as you've normalised those high frequencies. Stick with it for a few hours (days preferably) and then pop back to stock to see how bright it really is.

 For the record, I have a high end studio monitor setup in an acoustically treated room. The balanced SWR3 V281 HD800 combo is very close. Crazy good.

 Some tips: Under the Advanced tab, make sure you're in Linear phase more. More accurate. Also make sure 'Avoid Clipping' is enabled. You'll have to turn your volume up to compensate, but it stops the audio from being clipped (bad). Think of your stock HD800 frequency as a full glass of water. When you start to remove/add additional frequency via EQ, you're essentially tipping out or adding more water. If you add so much as to make it overflow (clip) you lose data/quality.

 If you're using Mac, the Audirvana music app is the best choice, and you can add plugins via the settings. If you're on Sierra OSX, you'll need to disable Direct Mode in Audirvana for the best sound quality (bug in that version of OSX). You can also use Audio Hijack, more complicated, but let's you run SWR3 across your whole system, or specific apps (such as Safari, Spotify, Tidal, VLC, PLEX etc). 
  
 The sound 'flows' from left to right. You place stuff in specific orders and can toggle inputs on/off easily. The Ghz plugins you see between SWR3 and the DAC output are also fantastic, they let you emulate a speaker sound via headphones. Another great tweak to make the sound that much better.


 Foobar lets you use plugins in Windows, if I'm not mistaken.

 If you have the V281 nd the HD800, get yourself a nice balanced cable too. Makes a big difference! 
  
 The official thread is here:
  
Sonarworks Headphone Calibration software


----------



## phonomat

fonna said:


> ​hey 13713, I listen to mostly old hip-hop music, rnb / funk and I also enjoy classical. yesterday I was listening to The Weeknd, the new album Starboy and the album Beauty Behind The Madness, was also listening to *the new SOHN album, Rennen. Starboy is a very well recorded album IMO, specifically the songs "Secrets" and "I Feel It Coming". if you have any albums you can recommend me, please do. gonna be having some long listening sessions over the next few days.
> *


*


Nice, I just recommended that on the SE-Master1 thread. Love the production, so spacious and so much going on.
And yeah, the V281 is great. *


----------



## sanjeewasam

yoga said:


> In the pro audio world, flat/neutral sound is the holy grail for production, mixing and mastering (especially the latter). Hence SW was born. It was initially designed to calibrate studio monitors within your own room (each room having individual sound characteristics / reflections etc). The SW then took multiple versions of the same headphone and took specific measurements of their frequency curves, giving them a very good average reading for each headphone. This allowed them to produce a curve that, when applied to the stock HD800 sound, would flatten it so the desired reference level.
> 
> The HD800 is particular is _especially_ responsive to EQ, it scales like no other headphone. Quite remarkable. It's known for being bass light with a 6kHz treble peak, when you run it through SWR3 that character is completely changed to one that is very, very accurate. The bass it can produce is mind blowing! You still retain the massive soundstage and accurate tonality.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks a lot for this info
  
 My set up is as follows. Yes I do have balanced cable
  
 a) power conditioner (BADA LB 3300)
 b) shielding power cables for V281/V850 (AU IEC Plug red copper adio OFC)
 c) V850->V281 via balanced  shielded cables (after market but oked by Fried Reim).
 d) Auralic Aries Mini Streamer With Jay's Audio LPS
 e) shielded 75ohms coax cable (oked by Fried Reim)
 f) Source- Sinology NAS 213j Flac collection and Tidal streaming via Aries mini connected wifi mode to my router
 g) HD800 ( balanced cable -  FURUKAWA PCOCC cable with black color Teflon sleeving, Swiss made Neutrik XLR stereo plug and 24k gold-plated connector pins).
  
 Last time when I tried I noted that HD800 become more neutral across the spectrum with SWR3 and had to increase the volume quite a bit. I do not have a mac but can run Android (on a tab) or Linux. So I will try is again on windows with foorbar
  
 What I did not like is SWR3 killed the dynamics, sound stage of HD800 and was much more boring. With limited listening as I said I thought it  made HD800 something else but did not like it at all. My set up is mainly geared to cater to HD800 which I think is the best and that is why I selected Vio 850 which is a darker, laid back dac and V281.
  
 Thanks again. I will give it a go and revert back


----------



## Yoga

sanjeewasam said:


> Thanks a lot for this info
> 
> My set up is as follows. Yes I do have balanced cable
> 
> ...


 

 Solid setup you have there. Certainly not dark enough to combat the HD800 treble though, you'd need *really* warm tubes for that with a high treble rolloff.

 Don't mistake brighter treble for a bigger soundstage. Listen purely for positioning, rather than volume. Anything that sounds louder sounds better.

 Yes you will have to compensate volume.

 If you're a fan of the stock HD800 sound that's all good. Just don't think it's accurate or representative of what the music _should_ sound like. Have fun with the wet/dry knob, you can blend stock/SWR3 curve to your exact desire. Handy!


----------



## 13713

Alright... As a diehard of the HD800 sound I will try SW. 

Mind you almost all of my music is on vinyl I will try this out.


----------



## Yoga

13713 said:


> Alright... As a diehard of the HD800 sound I will try SW.
> 
> Mind you almost all of my music is on vinyl I will try this out.


 

 Interested to hear your thoughts! Do spend some time with it enabled to adjust your ears.


----------



## Trance_Gott

I want to buy Shure SE846 Inears for my V281. Does anybody knows if the background is dead silent even balanced?


----------



## Yoga

trance_gott said:


> I want to buy Shure SE846 Inears for my V281. Does anybody knows if the background is dead silent even balanced?


 

@project86 's review included sensitive IEMs. Completely black background if I recall correctly.


----------



## project86

yoga said:


> @project86 's review included sensitive IEMs. Completely black background if I recall correctly.


 
  
  
 It's pretty quite or even silent with a lot of IEMs but I have found a few that show mild hiss. Not sure if that was the case at the time of my review, so I may  have claimed complete silence back then. It's generally listenable though, even when there is a bit of hiss.
  
 For contrast, I've owned lots of portable amps which were presumably intended for use with IEMs, but had worse hiss than the big V281.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Have you tested SE846? Which IEs are silent with V281?


----------



## Fegefeuer

project86 said:


> It's pretty quite or even silent with a lot of IEMs but I have found a few that show mild hiss. Not sure if that was the case at the time of my review, so I may  have claimed complete silence back then. It's generally listenable though, even when there is a bit of hiss.
> 
> For contrast, I've owned lots of portable amps which were presumably intended for use with IEMs, but had worse hiss than the big V281.


 
  
 Did you try setting the pre-gain to -12db?


----------



## ab_ba

Edit: don't do what I did! I've heard from enough people that I probably fooled myself into hearing what I wanted to hear, and also the point was made in the long run this could possibly even do some damage to the V281. I'm leaving this post intact (lightly edited) for the sake of the record. 

Problem: The V281 sounds way better through the balanced out. But, I can't afford to buy balanced cables for all my headphones.
 
Solution: An adapter from 4-pin XLR to a 1/4" headphone plug. I commissioned mine from an ebay vendor of cables..
 
To me, this gives most of the benefits of the balanced out without needing to buy new cables for all of your headphones. It sounds clearly better than the single-ended output, and just a little less good than a dedicated balanced cable. Pretty sweet.


----------



## mulder01

ab_ba said:


> *snip*


 
  
 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but is that not the same as plugging it into a 1/4inch socket on the front of the amp?


----------



## manpowre

mulder01 said:


> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but is that not the same as plugging it into a 1/4inch socket on the front of the amp?


 
 The balanced out has more power than the jackplug.


----------



## Badas

manpowre said:


> The balanced out has more power than the jackplug.




Yes. That's because it has four amps running. That adapter can't handle that so it will have a wire bridge. Essential turning it back to two signals. So no benifit. 

That adapter would produce essentially the same thing as the single end output. No advantage using balanced output.


----------



## sanjeewasam

badas said:


> Yes. That's because it has four amps running. That adapter can't handle that so it will have a wire bridge. Essential turning it back to two signals. So no benifit.
> 
> That adapter would produce essentially the same thing as the single end output. No advantage using balanced output.


 

  
[color=windowtext]ab_ba is claiming that he is hearing a difference with that adapter. That means his mind is tricking him to believe that it is better!![/color]
 I have been using HD800 single and also via balanced cable with V281. The difference for me is not what I was believed to expect. Balanced mode does have more power but sonic improvements are subtle


----------



## ab_ba

Hey folks, I am fully prepared to be wrong on this, but I want to dwell on it a bit longer. First of all, it wasn't a blind test. It's certainly possible I was a little too impressed with my "clever" solution, and heard what I wanted to hear. Also, I didn't perfectly volume-match - I just did it by ear.
  
 However, it's pretty clear the topologies are different. For the single-ended jacks, you've got two amplifiers working (one for each channel) and the return is ground. For balanced, all four amps are driving the signal. In this case, I'm tying together the right and left the negative-polarity signals, and not just passive returns to ground. 
  
 I hope someone from Violectric catches this post, and can comment. The topologies seem to me to be different, but who knows, they might tell me what I've done is sonically inferior to even the single-out, let alone the balanced-out.
  
 In any event, I'll give a closer listen later tonight, volume-match with an SPL meter, and see if I can talk myself out of hearing a difference...
  
 By the way, Badas, that is a teriffic mancave. Very cool!


----------



## zhgutov

ab_ba said:


> However, it's pretty clear the topologies are different. For the single-ended jacks, you've got two amplifiers working (one for each channel) and the return is ground. For balanced, all four amps are driving the signal. In this case, I'm tying together the right and left the negative-polarity signals, and not just passive returns to ground.


 
  
 You can use TRS outputs to get balanced signal for your headphones.
 Just by changing BAL-STEREO jumpers (see manual).
 This jumpers change channel (pins) mapping only (Fried Reim confirms this).
 So, this outputs are the same in theory.


----------



## ab_ba

Cool. Thanks zhgutov and all. That's a cool feature I was unaware of.
  
 I'll continue to learn, and in the meatime, I've learned my lesson here: listen, then listen again, before you post. 
  
 (I edited my original post to note the ensuing information.)


----------



## zhgutov

ab_ba said:


> I've learned my lesson here: listen, then listen again, before you post.


 
  
 It is very important to match the volume level, it is too easy to make wrong conclusions because of "stepped" volume control.


----------



## fdg

@ ab-ba
  
 It is really no good idea to operate the balanced output with an unbalanced to TRS adaptor.

 See what happens:
 Balanced means that there are 4 independent amps for 4 relatively independent signals,
 these are:
 - left in phase
 - left out of phase
 - right in phase
 - right out of phase

 With such balanced to unbalanced adaptor you are shorting the left and right out of phase signals
 and both amps are working against each other.
 Distortions will follow, massive heat problems and more crosstalk.
 Also there will be no more power as the current from the out-of-phase amps is instantly transferred into heat !
 There are dedicated sockets on the amp to connect unbalanced headphones !

 Think of a 4-track road which is sudenly reduced to 3 tracks without any signalisation.
 Guess what´s the result ??

 So, if you want to have a damaged amp with no warranty on it - proceed !!

 Best regards
  
 Fried


----------



## Badas

^

I think that settles that. 

Freid, do we have to be careful of any HP wiring? In and out of phase?

Is there a test that everything is okay?


----------



## manpowre

fdg said:


> @ ab-ba
> 
> It is really no good idea to operate the balanced output with an unbalanced to TRS adaptor.
> 
> ...


 
 Excellent read that explains it well ! love how this thread picked up  we have to tolerate that some people doesnt have all electric knowledge, and we seek to get more. thanks FDG for this explanation.


----------



## zhgutov

fdg said:


> With such balanced to unbalanced adaptor you are shorting the left and right out of phase signals
> and both amps are working against each other.


 
  
 Wow! Looks like I missed the way in which the pins are connected inside this connector.
  
 Cannot find the description for them, but it looks like this is at least the second time in this thread when someone points to such a solution _in production_.
 Is there any real (other) application of 4-pin XLR with two pins connected together? Why anyone would even make such wires?


----------



## ab_ba

fdg said:


> @ ab-ba
> 
> It is really no good idea to operate the balanced output with an unbalanced to TRS adaptor.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Fried. That makes perfect sense (of course). The adapter has been tossed in my bin of bad ideas.
  
 And, for the low price of $15 and a little public embarassment, I've learned firsthand the principles of audio comparisons:
 (1) Volume-match with an SPL and a test tone before you try to compare anything. Louder things sound better.
 (2) Test blind. Have somebody else switch the cables around, and see if you can guess it right better than 50/50.
 (3) Make the switches quickly! Audio memory lasts only a few seconds.
 (4) And, of course, talk to your manufacturer before you do anything crazy.
  
 One last thing, so it's clear - this nutty idea was all mine. The vendor only built a cable as I requested. It's not like there's somebody out there marketing these things.


----------



## jelt2359

fdg said:


> @ ab-ba
> 
> It is really no good idea to operate the balanced output with an unbalanced to TRS adaptor.
> 
> ...


 
 Will this do any damage to the headphones? Or is it mainly bad for the amp?


----------



## fdg

@ Badas

 According to some AES (Audio Engineering Society) investigations there is only a very small minority
 about 0,1 % of the population who can tell apart an in-phase signal from an out-of-phase signal.
 And this has nothing to do with training or so, it´s got something to do with the brain.
 I personally can not - and in 30 years of pro-audio experience I only met two guys who could !

 Of course the polarity on both earpieces must be the same.
 An in-phase connected earpiece for one channel and an out-of-phase connected earpiece for the other channel is instantly perceived.

 And again the pin-out of the 4-pin XLR, not only on our amps but the world wide de-facto standard:
 Pin 1 = left channel, in-phase
 Pin 2 = left channel, out-of-phase
 Pin 3 = right channel, in-phase
 Pin 4 = right channel, out-of-phase

 If there is any shielding on the cable ( which is absolutely not necessary for headphones !!! )
 this should be cut or connected to the case of the connector and must not be connected to any of the four pins.
 The reason for the shielding is that there is lots of shielded "microphone" cable in the market 
 which is taken by the headphone manufacturers - I guess out of costs reasons 
  
 Cheers, Fried


----------



## fdg

@jelt2359
  
 Well, basically it´s bad for the amp.
 But when the amp fails and produces large amounts of DC during passing away
 there might be some colateral damage !


----------



## zhgutov

fdg said:


> And again the pin-out of the 4-pin XLR, not only on our amps but the world wide de-facto standard:
> Pin 1 = left channel, in-phase
> Pin 2 = left channel, out-of-phase
> Pin 3 = right channel, in-phase
> ...


 
  
 Pin 1 to Tip, Pin 3 to Ring, Case (of the connector) to Sleeve. Other pins are not connected to anything.
 Is this the same as to plug the headphones to the right TRS socket (in STEREO mode)?
  
 Pin 2 to Tip, Pin 4 to Ring, Case to Sleeve. Other pins are not connected to anything.
 Is this the same as to plug the headphones to the left TRS socket?
  
 I mean, is the case of the 4-pin XLR connector the same as Sleeve of the TRS jacks?
  
*UPD*
 Looks like 4-pin XLR cannot be used for SE output at all.
 The case of the connector is not the same as sleeve of the TRS sockets.


----------



## fdg

@zhgutov
  
 We got 4 amps in our balanced headphone amps.
 These serve for
 - left channel, in-phase
 - left channel, out-of-phase
 - right channel, in-phase
 - right channel, out-of-phase

 But there is not only balanced headphone in this world.
 So - for unbalanced connection - we thought it is a good idea that the left and right in-phase amps feed one TRS socket (the right one)
 and the left and right out-of-phase amps feed the other TRS socket, the left one.
 When you connect 2 unbalanced headphones to our balanced amps they will not bother each other as they are driven by dedicated amps.

 If you would make adapter from 4-pin XLR back to TRS like you mentioned it:  
"Pin 1 to Tip, Pin 3 to Ring, Case (of the connector) to Sleeve. Other pins are not connected to anything.
Is this the same as to plug the headphones to the right TRS socket (in STEREO mode)?"
 or
"Pin 2 to Tip, Pin 4 to Ring, Case to Sleeve. Other pins are not connected to anything.
Is this the same as to plug the headphones to the left TRS socket?"
 chances are high that you will not hear anything as only one pin from the ear pieces is connected and the other remains open.
  
"I mean, is the case of the 4-pin XLR connector the same as Sleeve of the TRS jacks?"
 It depends on the wiring of the headphones:
 As I mentioned earlier the shielding of the headphone cable (if there is any) is good for nothing.
 In contrary, it reduces the chances of having thicker useful wires.
 On most headphones cables the shield is connected to the out-of-phase wires on the TRS connector side.
 But not necessarily on the earpieces end !

 An adaptor from 4-pin XLR back to TRS will only make sense when you connect
 Pin 1 to Tip,
 Pin 3 to Ring,
 Pin 2 and 4 to Sleeve
 If there is a shield you may connect it also to the Sleeve - but you must not.

 Now you will hear the in phase signal from the right TRS socket or the out-of-phase signal from the left socket.

 If you like to you may also connect
 Pin 2 to Tip,
 Pin 4 to Ring,
 Pin 1 and 3 to Sleeve
 Now - as your headphone is completely phase reversed - you will hear the the in-phase signal from the left socket and the out-of-phase signal from the right socket.

 What I want to say is that with more than one balanced signal you should always pay attention to the correct treatment of the phases.
 It is simple with only two channels.
 But imagine a recording session with 50 or more microphones ...
 That´s why mixing consoles have phase switches for each channel.

 Cheers, Fried


----------



## zhgutov

fdg said:


> If you would make adapter from 4-pin XLR back to TRS like you mentioned it:
> "Pin 1 to Tip, Pin 3 to Ring, Case (of the connector) to Sleeve. Other pins are not connected to anything.
> Is this the same as to plug the headphones to the right TRS socket (in STEREO mode)?"
> or
> ...


 
  
 Oh, looks like I mean something different (my english is bad, sorry). I am talking about headphones with TRS plug inserted into the 4-pin XLR socket.
 So, Tip (on headphones) to Pin 1 (on amp), Ring (on headphones) to Pin 3 (on amp), and Sleeve (on headphones) to Case (on amp).
 Is this the same as to plug the headphones to the right TRS socket in STEREO mode?
 I know, it is not so useful, because I can just plug the headphones to the right TRS socket.
 My question is just to clarify everything.
 Is the case of the 4-pin XLR (on amp) the same as Sleeve of the TRS jacks (on amp)?
  
*UPD*
 Looks like 4-pin XLR cannot be used for SE output at all.
 The case of the connector is not the same as sleeve of the TRS sockets.


----------



## Badas

I know it's not a V281 but it's for a V281.
  
 I received this today from Violectrics:
  

  
 XLR extender (7 meters long) made at the V281 specification. Thanks to Fried.
  
 So well built.
  
 I will test tonight. I'm in my happy place. I can go back to using the NightHawks and V281 combo.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Fried modded my HD800 cable to XLR and built an adapter with the rest. Top notch work for "simply" modding an existing cable. You could slay a demon with this cable now, it's like a grim whip that would force a galleon full of Mordor Orcs to retake Umbar all by themselves. The XLR cable that came with the HD800S (which I sold) in comparison is a joke. I wonder if the default HD800 cable meets the optimum minimal electrical requirements.
  
 Imo Violectric should offer headphone cables as well, though I guess some connectors are a pain in the ass to modify. Like making a K812 balanced etc. Plus it would add a lot of manhours and their portfolio is much bigger than Vio alone. 
  
 I'll be ordering some extension cables as well someday.


----------



## novicez1

Fegefeuer said:
			
		

> The XLR cable that came with the HD800S (which I sold) in comparison is a joke. I wonder if the default HD800 cable meets the optimum minimal electrical requirements.




The connector is gold plated, but I do agree the cable itself is flimsy.


----------



## ProfFalkin

I just got the ZMF Eikon headphones, and I'm absolutely floored by how good these sound out of a Jotunheim.   I have a Feliks Elise, and it's a bad pairing imo.   The situation is pushing me into either considering a Wells Milo, an AURALiC Taurus MKII, the V281, or perhaps a Schiit Ragnarok.  Overall feature wise, I'm liking the V281 (on paper) more.  It's smaller than the Rag, seems to have more creature comforts than the Taurus, and the Milo seems overkill power wise.   The volume pot/remote upgrade lets me use balanced out to the monitors on my desk remotely, which is another plus.   By all the reviews I've read, the Taurus compares the best.  
  
From someone who recently heard the V281 on the Eikons, there is a feeling that some warmth and color is presented by the V281.   Any thoughts on this?  The Taurus is more inside my price bracket, but I'd rather hand my $ to a company in Europe than China, and the extra features would be cool.  I just don't know how well the Eikon pairing will go.
  
 Thanks all


----------



## Badas

proffalkin said:


> I just got the ZMF Eikon headphones, and I'm absolutely floored by how good these sound out of a Jotunheim.   I have a Feliks Elise, and it's a bad pairing imo.   The situation is pushing me into either considering a Wells Milo, an AURALiC Taurus MKII, the V281, or perhaps a Schiit Ragnarok.  Overall feature wise, I'm liking the V281 (on paper) more.  It's smaller than the Rag, seems to have more creature comforts than the Taurus, and the Milo seems overkill power wise.   The volume pot/remote upgrade lets me use balanced out to the monitors on my desk remotely, which is another plus.   By all the reviews I've read, the Taurus compares the best.
> 
> From someone who recently heard the V281 on the Eikons, there is a feeling that some warmth and color is presented by the V281.   Any thoughts on this?  The Taurus is more inside my price bracket, but I'd rather hand my $ to a company in Europe than China, and the extra features would be cool.  I just don't know how well the Eikon pairing will go.
> 
> Thanks all


 

 I've heard both the Taurus and V281 often. Teamed up with the Auralic Vega DAC.
  
 Taurus is neutral cold with no holographics. Very Fatiguing but detailed.
  
 V281 is neutral warm with holographics that equal my tube amp. V281 can be listened to all day.


----------



## Fegefeuer

the link about the ZMFs talks about the V280 (not the V281) which has a slight touch of warmth compared to the V281.


----------



## ProfFalkin

fegefeuer said:


> the link about the ZMFs talks about the V280 (not the V281) which has a slight touch of warmth compared to the V281.


 
 Oh, good catch, thank you.


----------



## FumblingFoo

I'm back finally and finally I am starting to hear a difference between my v281 / v850 and Schiit Lyr 2 / Bifrost. The difference is like night and day now. The Lyr 2 with the warm tubes that I have in it does sound a bit warmer and fuller in the bass but muddy compared to the violetric. The lyr 2 is veiled and muddled compared to the viloetric setup. I know its not a fair comparison between a ~$900 setup and a ~$4000 setup, but finally I can see that the money is starting to pay off. Yay!

Edit: I used my beyer T90's instead of the Hifiman HE-1000's. I know planars react differently to amps than dynamic headphones because of the impedance curve.


----------



## sanjeewasam

fumblingfoo said:


> I'm back finally and finally I am starting to hear a difference between my v281 / v850 and Schiit Lyr 2 / Bifrost. The difference is like night and day now. The Lyr 2 with the warm tubes that I have in it does sound a bit warmer and fuller in the bass but muddy compared to the violetric. The lyr 2 is veiled and muddled compared to the viloetric setup. I know its not a fair comparison between a ~$900 setup and a ~$4000 setup, but finally I can see that the money is starting to pay off. Yay!
> 
> Edit: I used my beyer T90's instead of the Hifiman HE-1000's. I know planars react differently to amps than dynamic headphones because of the impedance curve.


 
 Can you please *elaborate* on what you mean by "The difference is like night and day now". I also have the same set up fed by Aries Mini via Coax and paired with HD800 (balanced), K812 and Elears. I also had HE6 for few days which was nice. My set up is over 200hrs used so well over burning period and is fed by power conditioners and shielded cables. I previously had PC via USB-> MOJO-> Luxman P200-> SE HD800 and the difference was subtle (I would say +5-10% max) then I paired Mojo->V281 and also Aries Mini Dac with Jays Linear Power Supply->V281 instead of V850 DAC and there also difference are very minimal. I say minimum by 5-10% better and nothing to say night & day. I am not saying I am unhappy but then come to realise that the improvements in DAC/AMP bring is very very minimal and people just use words that mislead many people. I am currently testing Aries mini-> Chord Mojo-> AKG K812 vs Aries mini-> V850 (Balanced cable)-> V281-> Balance HD800 and see which I like. For me AKG812 is better via Mojo direct so just want to see as I got Vio set up to see how good HD800 go. I was certainly happy with   MOJO-> Luxman P200-> SE HD800 before and can say it still is after listing to Vio set up.
  
 I know of another headfier  who had Schitt Valhalla 2 and Schiit  GUNGNIR multibit and then he was saying multibit was more detailed but the amp was bit drier than V281. Then he sold the entire thing V850/V281 via Headfi forum as he says the money he spent was nothing compared to improvement he got and went back to Schiit gear. He also used HD800 balanced and V850 to V281 via balanced cable
  
 I am not here to start an argument or anything. Just for my understanding and for other's benifit as there is very limited comparison between Schiit products vs Vio. I have never had listed to Schiit products and I am not going that way either but may down size my gear as improvements are minor with Amps and DACs where you have taken care of pairing of Brighter HP with warmer gear or Warmer headphone with brighter DAC/AMP which I do believe is the most important (but improvement in sound quality and characteristics from $500 gear to $2500 DAC is very very minimal once you do brighter and warmer pairing like Mojo with K812 and not LCDs and LCDs with Hugo which is bit brighter kind)


----------



## FumblingFoo

sanjeewasam said:


> Can you please *elaborate* on what you mean by "The difference is like night and day now". ...
> I am not saying I am unhappy but then come to realise that the improvements in DAC/AMP bring is very very minimal and people just use words that mislead many people. ...
> 
> Just for my understanding and for other's benifit as there is very limited comparison between Schiit products vs Vio. I have never had listed to Schiit products and I am not going that way either but may down size my gear as improvements are minor with Amps and DACs where you have taken care of pairing of Brighter HP with warmer gear or Warmer headphone with brighter DAC/AMP which I do believe is the most important (but improvement in sound quality and characteristics from $500 gear to $2500 DAC is very very minimal once you do brighter and warmer pairing like Mojo with K812 and not LCDs and LCDs with Hugo which is bit brighter kind)


 
  
 I can try, but I'm a n00bish reviewer and just starting to come to trust my ears. No prob on calling me out on this, with this, you've moved me a bit to try harder  and I think I've grown a bit in my audiophilia with this exercise. I didn't know that the comparisons between Schiit gear and Violetric gear was so rare.
  
  
 First off, I'm not using any power conditioners, just relying on the internal power conditioning of my gear. And, so before when I was evaluating my gear I did:
  
 Bifrost Uber unbal -> Lyr 2 min gain with Amperex 7308 vintage gold pin tubes -> T90
 v850 bal -> V281 -12db gain -> T90 (unbalanced of course)
  
 I made an earlier post in this thread lamenting that I couldn't hear any differences in this equipment comparison. The night and day difference to me that I heard this time was indeed subjective, I was simply surprised at the difference that I was noticing. The main differences that I noted was the the Schiit stack sounded warmer but less detailed and murkier. Before I go into the details, let me clarify that I've also now compared:
  
 Bifrost Uber unbal -> v281 -> balanced HE-1000
 v850 balanced -> v281 -> balanced HE-1000
  
 I attenuated the volume control on the v850 to about halfway between 2 and 3 o'clock to match it to the Bifrost Uber. Since I haven't been able to hear any differences in prior tests, I just used Carmina Burana： O Fortruna from the London Philharmonic Orchestra as the test track. Try as I may, I was unable to identify any difference in the sound either in tone or detail or soundstage between the Bifrost and the v850. Both seemed flawless and the same to each other. So the difference I was hearing must have been between the Lyr 2 and v281.
  
  
 For this test, to be fair, I did:
 v850 unbal -> Lyr 2 same tubes -> T90
 v850 bal -> v281 -> T90 unbal
  
 and I restored the volume of the v850 to max. I equalized the audio between the two amps with the online tone generator and a spl meter. I used more test tracks from the London Philharmonic Orchestra for this test. This comparison with further critial listening was very difficult; before wasn't nearly as indepth of a test but was just casual listening. For the first part of the test I continued with the London Philharmonic Orchestra recordings. For the second part of the test I listened to rock music.
  
 I noticed a touch more presence and fullness of the mid and upper bass from the Lyr 2 and it was overall warmer than the v281, but the v281's had better extension into the lower seismic region. The Lyr 2 had an overall a slightly veiled characteristic, while the v281 was more transparent. The mids and treble punched through the bass on the v281, maybe this is a better transient response and attack. The treble was noticeably more detailed and more clearly rendered on the v281 too, with better extension.  
  
 In the busier parts of the tracks, there were also better dyanmics of volume on the v281 vs Lyr 2, and the separation of the instruments was superior on the v281 as well. As far as soundstage goes, I'm a really poor judge here, even with orchestral recordings. For this aspect of sound I whipped out the HE-1000's with the unbalanced cable. All I can say is that it felt more like I was in the room with the music with the v281 than it did with the Lyr 2. Perhaps the Lyr 2 seemed more intimate and less airy than the v281.
  
 Overall, I preferred the v281 to the Lyr 2 for the orchestra tracks.
  
 I found that the Lyr 2 provided an easier listen to many of the rock songs I tried, loud and compressed. I listened to Foo Fighters, A Perfect Circle, A Flock of Seagulls, and Rush songs. The v281 was colder, more analytical, had greater attack, and was less forgiving than the Lyr 2. Bass had slightly more thump and faster decay on the v281, but again mid and upper bass was warmer and louder on the Lyr 2. Male vocals seemed slightly clearer and more distinct on the v281 than the Lyr 2 (I been back and forth on this one a two or three times), especially in the presence of other loud instruments, and the vocals were also slightly more natural on the v281. Treble was more clearer and crisper more rendered on the v281 but sometimes earsplitting on the cymbals.
  
 Which do I prefer for rock? It depends on the track. The more compressed and louder the recording, the more I prefer the Lyr 2. Overall, the difference was more slight than I initially thought, but with an edge towards the v281. Keep in mind that for the entire test I only used the left unbalanced output with the v281.


----------



## project86

In my experience - a smallish difference that may indeed be quantified as 5-10% in specific terms, can nonetheless be a real game changer when it comes to the total experience. If I now enjoy solo violin or piano (or whatever music) and it keeps me engaged, or inspires me to listen in ways I otherwise would not/could not, doesn't that sound like the game has been changed? 
  
 Imagine going from an old video card with choppy/unpredictable frame rate in games, to a slightly faster card that allows a fairly consistent 30 fps. Maybe not a huge difference on paper but if 30 fps is your personal threshold for enjoyment and the upgrade puts you over the edge, that's significant. Not a perfect analogy but you get the point.
  
 Now imagine upgrading from a card that averages 40 fps to another that gets you around 48 fps. That may not feel like much of an improvement at all - you already passed the significant 30 fps mark but aren't yet hitting the magic 60 fps, so it might feel like a waste. 
  
 My point is that differences can be small yet transformative if they unlock some previously unattainable enjoyment. It's not always "veils lifted". And the improvement that really impacts your enjoyment might do very little for someone else.
  
 Just food for thought.


----------



## FumblingFoo

Agreed. I'm glad to be at the point where I can hear a difference now; I'm surprised that I was able to get as analytical as I did on the sound. The small differences do add up .


----------



## sanjeewasam

project86 said:


> In my experience - a smallish difference that may indeed be quantified as 5-10% in specific terms, can nonetheless be a real game changer when it comes to the total experience. If I now enjoy solo violin or piano (or whatever music) and it keeps me engaged, or inspires me to listen in ways I otherwise would not/could not, doesn't that sound like the game has been changed?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I do agree. My request was to explain what is meant by "Night and Day: difference. I am not saying 5% difference does not make difference when we try to get last bit of the hear and recording. Again that is subjective- for Recording/Mastering engineer it would be more relevant to a hobbyst who would listen casually. 

But when words like "Night and Day" used for every thing including describe power cables, conditioners, USB cables, headphone cables, DACs and AMPs and streamers we become jokers and lot of people burn money with great expectation to find out either headfi guys are sponsored by manufactures or people with no objectivity. That is why most of the head-fi guys have become laughing matter in other places (I read many sources). When we see comments like this we need to challenge to re-examine and to re-word as required. At least that is my 2C.


----------



## sanjeewasam

I need some help with safe listening levels. Someone with knowledge on Vio gear can help I belive

I was commenting on Elear forum. I did not like Elear and was to sell it but then accidentally discovered that at high volumes Elear does become much much better and open up Mids and Highs to my liking. I posted volume levels direct out of Mojo and V850 ->V281-> SE Elear. I have V850 $24db <12 clock and V281 around 11-12. Most of the people have not experienced Vio gear but for the volume I mentioned for Mojo lead to controversy and lot of comments posted saying that volume too high and will damage hearing. 

Some experienced people have suggested EQ 5K band and advise not to listen to at above double green level in Mojo. The following guideline was posted by one person. http://dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/ 

Now my question is in Vio forums it is suggested that at Factory gain settings use 12 clock vol in V850 and V281. What Db is that say for 80Ohms Elear or 300Ohms HD800. Of course I need much less volume for HD800. 

What would it be if I have V850 @24DB setting at say 12Clock and V281 at 11 Clock?. I use Aries Mini to stream at default setting assuming my recording is at normal level


----------



## FumblingFoo

sanjeewasam said:


> But when words like "Night and Day" used for every thing including describe power cables, conditioners, USB cables, headphone cables, DACs and AMPs and streamers we become jokers and lot of people burn money with great expectation to find out either headfi guys are sponsored by manufactures or people with no objectivity. That is why most of the head-fi guys have become laughing matter in other places (I read many sources). When we see comments like this we need to challenge to re-examine and to re-word as required. At least that is my 2C.


 
  
 I didn't think anybody would take me too seriously because it was just a quick couple of words about how I was able to hear a difference for the first time. That's definitely a culture that I would not like to be a part of; I had no idea such was the case. So advice definitely taken .


----------



## FumblingFoo

sanjeewasam said:


> I need some help with safe listening levels. Someone with knowledge on Vio gear can help I belive


 
  
 For that I recommend a sound pressure meter. They can be gotten on the cheap at amazon. An excellent one is the American Recorder Technologies SPL meter, which I have, but is only available as used on amazon.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/American-Recorder-Technologies-Sound-Pressure/dp/B000I4ZVHU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1487377378&sr=8-4&keywords=sound+pressure+meter
  
  
 They can be bought new at the guitar center
  
 http://www.guitarcenter.com/American-Recorder-Technologies/Sound-Level-Meter-1273887987091.gc
  
  
 Edit: After a few trail runs with getting the SPL meter to 85dba and then listening, you'll get a good idea of safe listening volume where you won't have to be whipping out the meter all the time to check.


----------



## buzzlulu

What about iPhone iOS sound meter apps?  I have seen a few people on this forum recommend them


----------



## FumblingFoo

I wonder, is it safe to run +24db from the v850 into the v281? Will I need to reduce the vol from max on the v850 for more headroom? Is it entirely unnecessary to do so (meaning the v281 already maxes out in power @ +15db from the v850).


----------



## Yoga

buzzlulu said:


> What about iPhone iOS sound meter apps?  I have seen a few people on this forum recommend them


 

 They're actually quite good. Make sure you get one with C-weighting.


----------



## FumblingFoo

yoga said:


> They're actually quite good. Make sure you get one with C-weighting.


 
  
 So is C-weighting better than A-weighting for determining safe listening levels?


----------



## buzzlulu

yoga said:


> They're actually quite good. Make sure you get one with C-weighting.




Any particular iOS app you know of? I am looking at this - SPLnFFT Noise Meter - which I seem to recall seeing somewhere on this forum. 

I'm looking for something uncomplicated


----------



## Yoga

fumblingfoo said:


> So is C-weighting better than A-weighting for determining safe listening levels?


 
  
 Yes, it's the recommended method. Set to Slow (better for averages) and use pink noise to determine the SPL. Don't use music.
  


buzzlulu said:


> Any particular iOS app you know of? I am looking at this - SPLnFFT Noise Meter - which I seem to recall seeing somewhere on this forum.
> 
> I'm looking for something uncomplicated


 
  
 Yes, *dB Volume* seems to get very close to my actual SPL meter, so much in fact I never bother to use it :¬)


----------



## buzzlulu

yoga said:


> Yes, it's the recommended method. Set to Slow (better for averages) and use pink noise to determine the SPL. Don't use music.
> 
> 
> Yes, *dB Volume* seems to get very close to my actual SPL meter, so much in fact I never bother to use it :¬)




Thanks. I will check that app out


----------



## Yoga

Most welcome :¬)


----------



## zhgutov

sanjeewasam said:


> I need some help with safe listening levels. Someone with knowledge on Vio gear can help I belive
> 
> I was commenting on Elear forum. I did not like Elear and was to sell it but then accidentally discovered that at high volumes Elear does become much much better and open up Mids and Highs to my liking. I posted volume levels direct out of Mojo and V850 ->V281-> SE Elear. I have V850 $24db <12 clock and V281 around 11-12. Most of the people have not experienced Vio gear but for the volume I mentioned for Mojo lead to controversy and lot of comments posted saying that volume too high and will damage hearing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Why do you use 24 dBu outputs in V850 reducing the volume in digital signal back by ~10 dB?
 Isn't it better to go to the factory defaults (15 dBu) and set the volume level close to the maximum?
 I think, your choice just lead to the reduced dynamic range.
  
 For V281 the recommended position of the volume control is 12 o'clock for the normal listening levels.
  
 SPL will change with the different pre-gain settings, and the type of the volume control in your case.
 Let's assume you use -12 dB pre-gain with basic (not relay-based) volume control.
 You use 24 dBu settings @ 12 o'clock on V850, and 12 o'clock on V281.
 And you use SE outputs for Elear and HD800 on V281.
 In this case SPL will be ~100 dB @ 0 dB FS @ 1 kHz.
 It will be slightly less for the musical signal, maybe ~90 dB for "loud" tracks.
 SPL for HD800 will be lower by 5-7 dB.
 SPL for the balanced connection will be higher by 6 dB.
  
 There are good recommendations for adjusting levels at the first page of this thread.
  


fumblingfoo said:


> I wonder, is it safe to run +24db from the v850 into the v281? Will I need to reduce the vol from max on the v850 for more headroom? Is it entirely unnecessary to do so (meaning the v281 already maxes out in power @ +15db from the v850).


 
  
 I think, it is safe to run @24 dBu. The only exception is the last three steps of the volume control on the V281. At this level the clipping occurs for the signal @ 0 dB FS.
 This happens with the phones output only, not with the line output. I think, this is input limitation of the stage after the volume control.
 Nothing bad with that if you don't need these last three steps. It is strange if you need them.


----------



## FumblingFoo

v281 measurements @ http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v281.php
  
 I had fun playing with the graphs, especially seeing the "Spectrum of Total Harmonic Distortion vs Level the headphone amplifier" measurements _improve_ by 30db when increasing power, and noise improving by 20db when doing the same.


----------



## ArthurPower

It looks like the measurements were done using the unbalanced headphone output.


----------



## FumblingFoo

Interesting. How would that affect the results vs balanced?


----------



## ArthurPower

There would be twice as much power when using the balanced headphone output. There would also be a little more measurable distortion.


----------



## FumblingFoo

Kk thanks !


----------



## FumblingFoo

Found the balanced version of the measurements @ http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v281-balance.php
  
 I was kinda crestfallen to see the THD and noise plots so laden with peaks and graph noise compared to the unbalanced measurements 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Are these real distortions or something like measurement error like the first huge peak found on all THD graphs?


----------



## ArthurPower

I can't say for sure but it looks like some weird anomaly with the oscilloscope. I can tell you Fried Reim is all about measurements when he designs gear. I have never seen a manufacturer so obsessed with measurements, especially very small amounts of measurable distortion which is never audible to most humans. So although I always find measurements of audio gear and headphones interesting it's often very hard to interpret unless you're an electronics engineer. 

If you've ever seen the measurements of a tube amplifier, your first reaction would probably be there's no way I could listen to this and not hear distortion. Measurable distortion like this is often very difficult to discern, and it's not always something negative it's just part of audio reproduction.

The most important thing to keep in mind with any high quality amplifier, is not necessarily the total harmonic distortion, but the ratio of the individual harmonics that make up that total. Every amplifier regardless of design, produces 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th harmonics. The key is the ratio of these harmonics that are produced together.

The odd harmonics (3rd and 5th) are the most fatiguing to the human ear. So keeping those two as low as possible is very important. However, the ratio between all these distortion figures is the art of using a quality transistor and designing circuitry around it that strikes a nice balance of these combined harmonics. So it's not just low distortion as a total combined figure, since there will always be some distortion in every amplifier, but ensuring that the distortion that is present is pleasing to your ears or at least less offensive.


----------



## FumblingFoo

That's great to hear; I'm very welcoming of Fried's obsession . And when it comes to interpreting measurements I'm indeed a simpleton (with many other things too audio-related, lol), but its nice to know that at least part of what I was seeing was anomalous. Very informative btw!  The v281 sounds wonderful to me balanced or unbalanced , so props to Fried 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I'd like to ask two questions about this amp.
  
 - Is the satandard volume control a potentiometer or stepped attenator?
 - what are the differences in sound between the V200, V220, V280, V281? I read there is a difference in warmth?
  
  
  
 EDIT: A third question actually. Did anyone have a chance to compare this to the Sony TA-ZH1ES?


----------



## zhgutov

fumblingfoo said:


> Found the balanced version of the measurements @ http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v281-balance.php
> 
> I was kinda crestfallen to see the THD and noise plots so laden with peaks and graph noise compared to the unbalanced measurements
> 
> ...


 

 This is not the real distortion. This is hum (distortion+noise). If you make an experiment with the headphones, you can hear the white noise. Actually the distortion in balanced mode is much lower than in SE. Look at the graphs with more power - there are no visible harmonics at any reasonable level at all.


----------



## FumblingFoo

That's great to know, but when I play the headphones in unbalanced mode with the music off and crank up the volume all the way @ 0db pre-gain, the noise is about twice as quiet as in balanced mode (but still pretty faint), but that's to be expected because the balanced out has about 10db more power, right?


----------



## FumblingFoo

appleheadmay said:


> - Is the satandard volume control a potentiometer or stepped attenator?


 
  
  
 Stepped attenuator. The other questions IDK.


----------



## zhgutov

fumblingfoo said:


> That's great to know, but when I play the headphones in unbalanced mode with the music off and crank up the volume all the way @ 0db pre-gain, the noise is about twice as quiet as in balanced mode (but still pretty faint), but that's to be expected because the balanced out has about 10db more power, right?


 

 Yes, 6 dB higher (twice) for balanced mode.


----------



## AppleheadMay

fumblingfoo said:


> Stepped attenuator. The other questions IDK.


 
  
  
 Hmm, weird. I asked because someone in a for sale post said the same as you, saying it's the 42 steps attenuator.
 Strangly their webite claims the stock volume control is an Alps RK27 potentiometer.
 Have they switched to pots now?


----------



## FumblingFoo

Strange, I thought that the v281 only changed volume via the stepped attenuator, either the 42 step or 128 step relay version. What you mentioned comes with the remote control upgrade, no stock, which is the 42 stepped attenuator. Maybe the motorized control is just that, and it just adjusts the stepped attenuator mechanically. I heard somewhere that the motorized control works via friction, so the volume can be adjusted via remote and manually at the same time (for the curious masochistic).


----------



## davidespinosa

The standard volume control uses an ALPS RK27 pot with 41 _detents_ (I think it's 41).  The detents are little bumps that you feel when turning the pot.  It's NOT a stepped attenuator.  In fact, Violectric doesn't offer a stepped attenuator option.
  
 The basic motorized volume control also uses an RK27 pot, but without the detents.  The pot turns smoothly, to make it easier for the motor.  You can also adjust the pot by hand.
  
 The relay volume control also uses an undetented RK27 pot, but in this case, an A2D converter reads the pot position and adjusts the relays accordingly (in 128 steps).  The audio only goes through the relays -- never through the pot.  So the control path is:
  
   Remote -> Motor -> Pot -> A2D -> Relays
  
 If manual adjustment wasn't necessary, the remote could directly control the relays.  But the indirect approach allows both manual and remote adjustment.


----------



## AppleheadMay

davidespinosa said:


> The standard volume control uses an ALPS RK27 pot with 41 _detents_ (I think it's 41).  The detents are little bumps that you feel when turning the pot.  It's NOT a stepped attenuator.  In fact, Violectric doesn't offer a stepped attenuator option.
> 
> The basic motorized volume control also uses an RK27 pot, but without the detents.  The pot turns smoothly, to make it easier for the motor.  You can also adjust the pot by hand.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the detailed info, it finally makes sense now!
 I'd actually be fine with standard as I don't need one more remote and I prefer a pot to an attenuator.
  
 Still looking into the offered options: V200, V220, V280 and V281. Balanced isn't something I'm after, I'm fine with SE and I don't need the balance control and ouput/preout options as well so on paper the V200 would be fine for my intended use. I just wonder how they differ sonically.


----------



## mulder01

Well the v220 is this exact amp minus the balanced feature, so if you don't want balanced, then you can get the flagship amp minus the balanced plug for $600-odd less than the v281.

If you compare the v220 to v281 both on single ended outputs they should, in theory, sound identical.


----------



## AppleheadMay

mulder01 said:


> Well the v220 is this exact amp minus the balanced feature, so if you don't want balanced, then you can get the flagship amp minus the balanced plug for $600-odd less than the v281.
> 
> If you compare the v220 to v281 both on single ended outputs they should, in theory, sound identical.


 
  
  
 Good to know. But what if I have no need for the balance control and output options of the V220 as well, how does the V200 compare then?


----------



## zhgutov

appleheadmay said:


> But what if I have no need for the balance control and output options of the V220 as well, how does the V200 compare then?


 

 I compared V200, V181 in balanced, and V281 in SE directly. All connected from V800 via RCA. V200 and V181 (in balanced) sounded very close to me. But V281 had more natural sound stage, and was more open sounding, with deeper punch. The difference was not subtle. But some people here or in reviews tell that there is no significant difference within V200 and V281 in SE. For me V200 sounds more flat.
  
 When I compared V200 and V220 I had the same difference, but the most noticeable was the sound stage and openness.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I owned the V200 twice and the V280/281 are simply much better, also and especially over the SE (can't compare balanced as V200 doesn't offer that and you don't need it - else the comparison would end in: don't get the V200):
  
 what they do better:
  
 -better clarity and transparency, the window into the sound is clearer and you can see farther and deeper into it, make out nuances and contours better. Not saying the V200 is like a milk glass where you can't to see a lot of the world that the music builds outside, it just doesn't compare in finer detail, noticing textures and seeing the dynamic of fast pace direction changes or movements of butterflies, birds aka microdetails (I can't describe audio good I hope you don't mind this colorbook description). That's the most important difference.
  
 -soundstage/imaging: some people do not care about this since they know that these traits are superior on loudspeakers but to those that care this category is also one where the new gen simply is superior. I mentioned the V281 having a grand soundstage (tall, fantastic width, depth). You won't get that with the V200 at all in comparison. This will be the first thing you'll notice.
  
 -I owned the TH-900 too and found the V200 pairing really enjoyable. I thought it would make the sometimes hot treble of the TH-900 a bit more forgettable and make it a fire and forget headphone deluxe but the clarity of the TH-900 is so amazing that this trait should be supported by a better amp.


----------



## Yoga

The v281 via balanced increases upon the SE soundstage and clarity too. Very impressive.


----------



## FumblingFoo

My bad about saying the v281 has a stepped attenuator, thought it was because of the "indents/stops". Sorry.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thank you all for the useful info and detailed comparisons!
 Surely things to take into account when deciding.
 Maybe I should give balanced another thought even though my experiences with balanced vs. SE on the GS-X tuned out to be unnoticeable. But I wasn't a fan of a bright amp like that aznyway.
 Wll be expensive again though since I'd have to reterminate a few and recable some other cans.


----------



## mulder01

I suppose at least if you got a v281, it should serve you well as an endgame amp through any headphone upgrades (many people including myself use it with top tier HPs), even if you don't use the balanced out right now...


----------



## PleasantSounds

appleheadmay said:


> Wll be expensive again though since I'd have to reterminate a few and recable some other cans.


 
  
 Start with the hardest to drive headphones, as that's where the impact of going balanced will be most beneficial.
  
 I have done this over time with all my headphones and the results vary from bewildering to hardly noticeable. The one that benefited most was the humble Q701.


----------



## fixated

Finally pulled the trigger and got myself a V281 which is currently driving my Ether Flows, and I gotta say this is in a whole new league compared to the G109S that I previously owned, It's not as warm as I was expecting it to be, or maybe that's just because I'm using the Ether Flows  which aren't the warmest headphones around. Still loving the combo


----------



## Yoga

lonerboy13 said:


> Finally pulled the trigger and got myself a V281 which is currently driving my Ether Flows, and I gotta say this is in a whole new league compared to the G109S that I previously owned, It's not as warm as I was expecting it to be, or maybe that's just because I'm using the Ether Flows  which aren't the warmest headphones around. Still loving the combo


 

 Enjoy! I'd like to hear the Flow's (open).


----------



## zhgutov

@Yoga
  
 As I remember, you have non stock cable for HD800 with silver wires.
 Do you have something like this for your LCD2, or you use the stock cable?
 What the difference is? Especially in combination with V281.


----------



## manpowre

mulder01 said:


> I suppose at least if you got a v281, it should serve you well as an endgame amp through any headphone upgrades (many people including myself use it with top tier HPs), even if you don't use the balanced out right now...


 
 What is endgame really ? Im still looking for ways to improve my system  Even change sonically. Or save up for the 50k usd hp system ?


----------



## mulder01

manpowre said:


> What is endgame really ? Im still looking for ways to improve my system  Even change sonically. Or save up for the 50k usd hp system ?


 
  
 Well, nothing makes me crave another amp.  I guess it's endgame for me.
  
 I understand that people have the never ending urge to tweak or buy different gear or build a collection or whatever.  I added vinyl to my setup.  Not because it sounds better, but because it's a nice toy to have.  Would also like some speakers.  Wouldn't mind one of those smyth realisers... I would rather add elements to my system rather than change existing parts.  Especially when you have an amp like the 281, I feel like I would just be buying 'different' rather than 'better'.


----------



## phonomat

Same here. I went for the V281 instead of the other models so I could go balanced _and add some studio monitors to my desktop setup, which I've yet to acquire. Apart from that, I'm good. Very, very good._


----------



## Yoga

zhgutov said:


> @Yoga
> 
> As I remember, you have non stock cable for HD800 with silver wires.
> Do you have something like this for your LCD2, or you use the stock cable?
> What the difference is? Especially in combination with V281.


 

 Yes, from Lavricables. It's an excellent cable indeed, for an incredible price (comparatively). I have the Silver Widow (Toxic) for the LCD2.2. Similar beasts.

 Moving to balanced sounds incrementally tighter, wider and deeper. It's not night and day, but it adds to my enjoyment of the music and worth the price of admission. I cannot, of course, attribute how much of that is due to the silver cables. You'd need Sennheiser's own balanced cable for a proper A/B comparison.


----------



## boomtube

Curious about a tube-preamp that pairs well with the v281?


----------



## Stevell57

I recently bought a V280 in preference to the V281 for the following reasons:
  
 * I wanted a TOTL amp with balanced output and more power than my Chord Hugo to optimally drive my Hifiman HE1000 v1
 * No need for preamp functions as all my digital and analogue sources are connected to an excellent Naim Audio preamp with tape pass through to the headphone amp.
 * The rack with the headphone amp is at arm's length, so no need for headphone remote volume control. 
 * It has been said, in this thread, that the V280 sounds the same as or marginally warmer than the V281. The Chord Hugo DAC is neutral/bright and makes a perfect match,
  
 I also think the V280 looks nicer and is a little cheaper.


----------



## PleasantSounds

stevell57 said:


> I recently bought a V280 in preference to the V281 for the following reasons:
> 
> * I wanted a TOTL amp with balanced output and more power than my Chord Hugo to optimally drive my Hifiman HE1000 v1
> * No need for preamp functions as all my digital and analogue sources are connected to an excellent Naim Audio preamp with tape pass through to the headphone amp.
> ...


 
  
 It is important that it does everything you need it to do. No doubts it's a great amp and you'll be happy with it.
 Congrats on the purchase!


----------



## freedom04

I'm looking for a decent DAC to pair up with my V281. I currently have the HE1000 and planning to get either an Elear or HD800. Been using Stoner Acoustics End Game DAC for now, quite satisfied with it but I would like to try new one. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## robi20064

First maybe you should share how much you willing to spend on a DAC before anyone could recommend you one. There are many options from $500 to $20k and above...


----------



## watchdog507

freedom04 said:


> I'm looking for a decent DAC to pair up with my V281. I currently have the HE1000 and planning to get either an Elear or HD800. Been using Stoner Acoustics End Game DAC for now, quite satisfied with it but I would like to try new one. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!


 
 If you go over to the Mytek Brooklyn thread that I started, you will find a few of us have the Brooklyn/V281 set up.  I'm very pleased with it so far.


----------



## sanjeewasam

freedom04 said:


> I'm looking for a decent DAC to pair up with my V281. I currently have the HE1000 and planning to get either an Elear or HD800. Been using Stoner Acoustics End Game DAC for now, quite satisfied with it but I would like to try new one. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!


 

 I am having V281 and V850 Dac. I also have Mojo and have done some tests with it on V281. Improvement marginal for the price gap like for the case of many high end gear. Believe better to spend on different HPs that give different perspective of the same song and cater to different moods rather than different dacs unless you are willing to go to very high end like M1 or Dave or Paveen understanding very well very high diminishing returns (and the fact that for casual listening it does not make much sense  unless you are listening for  differences). This is my view
  
 I also have HD800, Elear, HE560 and K812 and getting HE1000 with Moon audio silver dragon but I will settle down to He1000 if that fit most of my requirements ( I just listen at nigh to relax and enjoy)
  
 I was planning to get Hugo 2 or Holo Audio Spring R2R but I am not convinced that they are any better for the price difference and loss I have to make in disposing my existing gear. Holo Audio Spring R2R seems to be in the same level as Yoggy and version 3 even compare ok with Metrum Acoustics Pavane that is 3x.


----------



## phase0

freedom04 said:


> I'm looking for a decent DAC to pair up with my V281. I currently have the HE1000 and planning to get either an Elear or HD800. Been using Stoner Acoustics End Game DAC for now, quite satisfied with it but I would like to try new one. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!


 
  
 I sold my Mytek Stereo 192 and got a Yggdrasil. It was a nice little upgrade. That's pretty much end game for me.


----------



## Yoga

phase0 said:


> I sold my Mytek Stereo 192 and got a Yggdrasil. It was a nice little upgrade. That's pretty much end game for me.


 

 Yes, I would recommend the Yggy to pair with the V281 at that price range.


----------



## robi20064

I'm using my V281 with a DiDiT DAC212SE and being more than satisfied with what I hear, however it's even more pricey than the Yggy (also a bit different set of features).


----------



## project86

My experience with DACs is that they make a more subtle difference than swapping out headphone amps. I think that difference can still be _very_ worthwhile in the long run, but I also wouldn't fault somebody who spent a bunch of money on a nice DAC and feels underwhelmed by the difference (or lack of difference) they initially hear. 
  
 It doesn't help that price isn't necessarily a good indicated of quality on a DAC. Nor is popularity. Like everything else around here, there is flavor of the month, and hype, and it's often hard to know what might actually be best for your needs. I also think there are very legitimate differences in what people enjoy, and therefore how they perceive a DAC. So a truly heartfelt positive review could still end up steering you the wrong way if your sonic preferences differ from the author.
  
 In the end I still think finding a great DAC that does everything you need it to do is a very worthwhile goal. That might be an expensive model or a modest one, might be R2R or the latest Sabre or a Wolfson that isn't really popular any longer....


----------



## PleasantSounds

For those who are considering Yggy: have a look at the Metrum Menuet if you have a chance. 
 I have compared the two side by side and liked the Menuet much better. They are on a similar level in terms of detail, but to me Menuet sounds more natural.


----------



## sanjeewasam

pleasantsounds said:


> For those who are considering Yggy: have a look at the Metrum Menuet if you have a chance.
> I have compared the two side by side and liked the Menuet much better. They are on a similar level in terms of detail, but to me Menuet sounds more natural.


 
 Thanks and Metrum Menuet is more clostlier that Yoggy and does Metrum Menuet need  to be on all the time like Yoggy tto get the best sound out of it?
  
 I noted that you have Mojo with you. Can I ask the impossible and give some details of Metrum Menuet vs Mojo connected to V281 say with HD800. I am sure Metrum Menuet is better but just want to understand by what marging without using word "night and day" which people use loosely even to describe differences of different cables. For me night and day could be like listening to $100 radio vs $20K system. My expereince was V850 and Mojo difference is very subtle -bit more air, sound stage and clarity in V850's favour.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Pricing may depend where you are based. In Australia Menuet is $4,300 and Yggy is 3,850 - not that much of a difference if you're shopping in that bracket.
 Some people who compared Menuet with Pavane claim that they are hard to tell apart.
  
 I had the Mojo connected to V281 as a DAC for a couple of months just before I got the Menuet. The difference was quite noticeable, much more than between other DACs I had experience with.
  
 With the Menuet I'm getting more clarity and more sub bass. Also imaging is more precise and there's more content in the far left and right of the image (not necessarily a good thing if you listen to 60's recordings). The sound is very natural.


----------



## freedom04

Thank you for all of you inputs! My budget would most probably lie between $500 to $1500. Currently checking the Lake People DAC RS06, a used V850, and hopefully a used Mytek Brooklyn. I live in the Philippines so I do have a limited number of options here..


----------



## fixated

I have my V281 paired with the RS06 and it sounds great. I can't really compare it to the V850 but based from the reviews it seems that the RS06 isn't too far off from the V850 just less features and just below in the V850 in terms of sound quality but having only read about it I don't know how much of a difference there might be. But the RS06 is way cheaper compared to the V850 and is great for its price.


----------



## Fegefeuer

freedom04 said:


> Thank you for all of you inputs! My budget would most probably lie between $500 to $1500. Currently checking the Lake People DAC RS06, a used V850, and hopefully a used Mytek Brooklyn. I live in the Philippines so I do have a limited number of options here..


 
  
 Definitely consider the Gungnir Multibit


----------



## Yoga

Hmm. That new Metrum has piques my interest.


----------



## freedom04

I forgot to include that as much as possible, I would like a balanced DAC. Would an Emotiva DC-1 suffice as well?


----------



## jmac1516

V281 paired with V850 is incredible!!  Can it get better?  Maybe, but you would really be splitting hairs.  I'm also confident that you can spend much less on a dac and the pairing would still sound amazing.  The v281 is a beast!!


----------



## Audio-Mark

jmac1516 said:


> V281 paired with V850 is incredible!!  Can it get better?  Maybe, but you would really be splitting hairs.  I'm also confident that you can spend much less on a dac and the pairing would still sound amazing.  The v281 is a beast!!




Very nice set-up. Have you tried other DAC's? I'm thinking about the V850 as well, in combination with the V280. But I'm also looking into the Chord 2Qute.


----------



## jmac1516

audio-mark said:


> Very nice set-up. Have you tried other DAC's? I'm thinking about the V850 as well, in combination with the V280. But I'm also looking into the Chord 2Qute.


 
 I acquired the two together (V281+V850) and have not messed with or tested other dacs.  After spending time with this set-up, I have not had any need or urge to test other dacs.  Like I stated previously, I'm sure their are dacs that may improve it a small amount and also cheaper dacs that perform nearly as well or better.  But I am very content.
  
 Pic of the rear (sorry--I posted these previously):


----------



## boomtube

Curious if anyone here has paired the Chord 2Qute with the v281? If so, what are your thoughts about synergy?


----------



## Audio-Mark

boomtube said:


> Curious if anyone here has paired the Chord 2Qute with the v281? If so, what are your thoughts about synergy?




I've been testing the V280 (which should sound the same as the V281) with the 2Qute for a few days. It sounds better than the Mojo, but I haven't compared it with other DAC's yet. I hope to test the V850 in the next weeks. 

I could be happy with the 2Qute for the rest of my life, and maybe that will be my conclusion.


----------



## AppleheadMay

If anyone wants to part with their V280 in Europe, gimme a yell!


----------



## 13713

audio-mark said:


> I've been testing the V280 (which should sound the same as the V281) with the 2Qute for a few days. It sounds better than the Mojo, but I haven't compared it with other DAC's yet. I hope to test the V850 in the next weeks.
> 
> I could be happy with the 2Qute for the rest of my life, and maybe that will be my conclusion.




Let me know how you feel about the V850. I am curious as to other peoples impressions.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Does it actually matter if you use the xlr or rca inputs when you want to connect a balanced pair of phones?


----------



## novicez1

To a certain extent, as the higher gain offerred by the balanced DAC allows you to set the pregain on your amplifier to a lower level, hence possibly avoiding distortion from higher amplifier gain.


----------



## shea

13713 said:


> Let me know how you feel about the V850. I am curious as to other peoples impressions.




I have the v281 with the lake people rs06. My understanding is the latter is the same internal components as the v850 but without line out volume control or manual selection of up-sampling multipliers, neither of which I'd want, anyway. You save about us$500 by foregoing those options. The combo is amazing to my ears. That said, the only other dac I've tried with the v281 is one of the little portable Fostex things, and you'd expect the rs06 to sound significantly better at ~2x the price and power from the mains. The v281/rs06 combo takes a lot of the edge off even the hd700's considering the v281 is a solid state amp. For me, the hd700's become usable for just about everything except for tambourine heavy tracks. That's unbalanced, too, by the way. I'm waiting on a balanced cable to compare with the hd800's.


----------



## AppleheadMay

novicez1 said:


> To a certain extent, as the higher gain offerred by the balanced DAC allows you to set the pregain on your amplifier to a lower level, hence possibly avoiding distortion from higher amplifier gain.


 
  
  
 But otherwise you get no improvement in the signal path when using balanced in for balanced out?
 And the amp will keep using it's 2 boards for the balanced output?
 I am asking because I am trying to figure out how I will connect my setup in case I'd buy a V281.
 I'd prefer to connect it unbalanced if it doesn't matter.
  
 I also wonder how many wires there are in a balanced headphone cable with dual 3-pin xlr connectors, 4 or 6? If I'd cut a cable like that and connect it to a 4-pin xlr connector, would that work? Or would I need a 1/4 terminated cable to reterminate it to 4-pin xlr?


----------



## mulder01

Yeah you can use balanced output with single ended in - that's what I'm doing with mine. Balanced input is only used for noise rejection.

You can buy a 4 pin xlr to 2x 3pin xlr adapter cable, so they've obviously connected 2x 3 pin xlr cables into a 4 pin xlr connector, so yeah.


----------



## novicez1

@AppleheadMay 
  
 There's quite a handful of headfier's experience (mine included) that the V281 sounds leaner/faster as you lower the gain from unity down to -12 while it sounds more meatier/lusher as you increase the gain to +12. The sonic changes are quite perceivable, but not really a day and night difference. If you want the leaner/faster presentation, I think going XLR would be the best route so that you'd still have plenty of headroom volume for really quiet masters. (+4db replay gain and above).
  
 As long as you can both satisfy your sonic tweaks and volume range using RCA's then there's really no need to chase XLR connections from your DAC.
  
 4 pin XLR Balanced cables have a minimum of 4 wires, 2 each channel. You can have your unbalanced stock cable reterminated to 4pin XLR if buying a custom one is out of your budget. For dual 3 pin XLR, you'll need a minimum of 6 wires, 3 each channel.


----------



## ArthurPower

A balanced​ headphone connection only consists of 4 wires. Just like a pair of stereo speakers, 2 wires left & 2 wires right.

In a balanced headphone system each channel (L & R) has its own ground isolated from one another. There are a total of 4 actual amplifiers in use. A pair of amps are bridged together, one in phase & one 180 degrees out of phase for the left channel and anther pair for the right channel. 

Dual 3 pin XLR connectors were used years ago because they were very common. Only 2 pins on each connector were actually used for balanced headphone connections. Someone then discovered the 4 pin XLR (used mostly in the video market as a power connector). This has now become the standard and is obviously more convenient. Dual 1/4" plugs were also used on some early balanced headphone systems. 

Many portable players are using a TRRS 4 contact (tip, ring, ring, sleeve) 2.5 mm connector. Why? I have no idea as this is a horrible choice for a portable balanced system! They are to small and intermittent not to mention fragile. The mini 4 pin XLR would be perfect for this application. Maybe that will become​ the standard years from now. One can only hope.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thank you very much guys, that was exactly the kind of info I was looking for, I know how to recable now and I see I have a choice concerning the inputs.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Well, my V281 is ordered. Standard volume control and no dac, black with silver feet. Should have it in a week or so from what the dealer told me.
 Looking into reterminating some of my phones now and getting new cables for two others.
  
 I didn't take the remote control volume since I believe it''s the same volume control with a remote? Don't really need a remote.
 And the stepped attenuator option? Might be better but I don't like stepped that much, had it on an amp once and never could find the exact volume I wanted. Wonder if it's that much better ...


----------



## phonomat

Cool, congratulations! Looking forward to your thoughts about how it pairs with SEM1 balanced.


----------



## AppleheadMay

phonomat said:


> Cool, congratulations! Looking forward to your thoughts about how it pairs with SEM1 balanced.


 
  
 I ordered the Pioneer balanced cable and will reterminate it with a 4-pin plug. I thnik the stock cable is of good quality and it's a pain to find the connectors for the headphone side anyway.
 What cable are you using by the way?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Got the XLR cable from Beyerdynamic's T1 2G/T5P 2G line for an excellent price to match with the AH-D7200 from DENON and as expected it proves that to make full use of this amp you gotta go balanced. Surely it's logical per design but experiencing the "upgrade" is simply another (joyful) matter. I wish headphone makers would go 4-PIN balanced with included adapters to 6,3mm but alas - that'll never happen when there's more money to make from those that cannot build themselves. DENON doesn't offer one so I had to look for one that fits the female plugs. These are it and are also lighter than the original cables, cutting the luxurious sleeve down to reasonable levels, wired with the same 7N OFC.
  
 So how does the AH-D7200 improve when running balanced? First it improves slam and kick. The headphone hits harder now, the bass is held even more with an iron grip. Some tracks I got used to before now kick so hard - it's a another form of deep satisfaction I have to be careful about. I'm watching the volume levels of course. Soundstage gains width and height (typical for the V281), more breathing room for the 7200 to shine (details, separation). Depth is unfortunately not the strongest trait of these DENONs, at least compared to the HD800 - which of course are another level in that matter.
  
 At 9 o'clock the D7200 is already at maximum levels for my taste. I need 32 Bit volume control. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (sometime next year)


----------



## shea

You can also consider lowering the pre-gain on the back of the v281, which should give you more increments of control with the volume pot.  The instructions are in the manual.


----------



## AppleheadMay

fegefeuer said:


> Got the XLR cable from Beyerdynamic's T1 2G/T5P 2G line for an excellent price to match with the AH-D7200 from DENON and as expected it proves that to make full use of this amp you gotta go balanced. Surely it's logical per design but experiencing the "upgrade" is simply another (joyful) matter. I wish headphone makers would go 4-PIN balanced with included adapters to 6,3mm but alas - that'll never happen when there's more money to make from those that cannot build themselves. DENON doesn't offer one so I had to look for one that fits the female plugs. These are it and are also lighter than the original cables, cutting the luxurious sleeve down to reasonable levels, wired with the same 7N OFC.
> 
> So how does the AH-D7200 improve when running balanced? First it improves slam and kick. The headphone hits harder now, the bass is held even more with an iron grip. Some tracks I got used to before now kick so hard - it's a another form of deep satisfaction I have to be careful about. I'm watching the volume levels of course. Soundstage gains width and height (typical for the V281), more breathing room for the 7200 to shine (details, separation). Depth is unfortunately not the strongest trait of these DENONs, at least compared to the HD800 - which of course are another level in that matter.
> 
> At 9 o'clock the D7200 is already at maximum levels for my taste. I need 32 Bit volume control. h34r:  (sometime next year)




Good tip on the cable, a more affordable solution, thanks for that!

But what do you mean by 32-bit volume control? The stepped attenuator option on the V281?


----------



## Fegefeuer

shea said:


> You can also consider lowering the pre-gain on the back of the v281, which should give you more increments of control with the volume pot.  The instructions are in the manual.


 
  
 I'm already at -14db. 
  
  
  
 Quote:


appleheadmay said:


> Good tip on the cable, a more affordable solution, thanks for that!
> 
> But what do you mean by 32-bit volume control? The stepped attenuator option on the V281?


 
  
  
 A DAC like the V850 where I can adjust/lower the volume to get more volume control out of the V281 (past/towards 12 o'clock) and not worry about losing bits.


----------



## shea

"I'm already at -14db."
  
 The pre-gain switches on the v281 are only for -6 and -12 dB (and +6/12), so I assume you mean you've already selected -12 dB for both channels.  The headphones you're using are remarkably easy to drive at just 25 Ohm impedance and 105dB/mW sensitivity, though, so I guess I'm not surprised the v281 can drive them without breaking into a trot.


----------



## Fegefeuer

you can get -14db out of -12 and -6.


----------



## robi20064

Was it ever confirmed that we shall be adjusting more than one switch at a time? I recall the manual stating otherwise.


----------



## phonomat

robi20064 said:


> Was it ever confirmed that we shall be adjusting more than one switch at a time? I recall the manual stating otherwise.




It's perfectly fine to use more than one switch at a time, and IIRC, Fegefeuer is right that -12 + -6 = -14, as strange as it sounds.


----------



## phonomat

appleheadmay said:


> I ordered the Pioneer balanced cable and will reterminate it with a 4-pin plug. I thnik the stock cable is of good quality and it's a pain to find the connectors for the headphone side anyway.
> What cable are you using by the way?






(Pioneer balanced cable reterminated to 4-pin XLR; original dual 3-pin plugs on the right)


----------



## AppleheadMay

phonomat said:


> (Pioneer balanced cable reterminated to 4-pin XLR; original dual 3-pin plugs on the right)


 
  
  
 Looking good, thanks.
  
 I have the Neutrik connector incoming as well plus a few Eidolic ones for use with other phones.


----------



## Fegefeuer

robi20064 said:


> Was it ever confirmed that we shall be adjusting more than one switch at a time? I recall the manual stating otherwise.


 
  
 the manual doesn't mention this to prevent people playing piano with the switches and wondering why it sounds off. I checked back with Fried and -12 and -6 together result in roundabout -14,5db


----------



## robi20064

Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## vortrex

What's the feeling regarding burn in with the v281? This is my first SS amp.


----------



## 3083joe

vortrex said:


> What's the feeling regarding burn in with the v281? This is my first SS amp.



Around 100 hrs


----------



## socks mk2

Gotta let those power supplies break in.


----------



## boomtube

WTB a V281 if anyone is wanting to let go of theirs.


----------



## vortrex

I currently use a Gungnir MB balanced which has a max output of 4.0v RMS. Is that a bad match for the v281? I have the gain set at -12 and can't get to the 12 o'clock position.


----------



## zhgutov

vortrex said:


> I currently use a Gungnir MB balanced which has a max output of 4.0v RMS. Is that a bad match for the v281? I have the gain set at -12 and can't get to the 12 o'clock position.


 
 Nothing wrong, I suppose, but... Which headphones do you use? Do you have simple or relay-based volume control?


----------



## vortrex

Simple volume with Pioneer SE Master1 and Ether Flow. I did not try the Flow yet.


----------



## phonomat

I have the same "problem" with the SE-Master1. It's just too darn efficient.  
As mentioned, you can reduce gain to -14 by flicking the -6 switch in addition to the -12 one (that's where I'm at), but it won't make too much of a difference.


----------



## watchdog507

phonomat said:


> I have the same "problem" with the SE-Master1. It's just too darn efficient.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I found that changing the dip switches didn't make a huge difference to my volume control. I have the relay stepped control.  My Edition X's are efficient so I'm rarely past 9:00 oclock.  I just live with it.


----------



## zhgutov

vortrex said:


> Simple volume with Pioneer SE Master1 and Ether Flow. I did not try the Flow yet.


 
  
 I have almost the same SPL with LCD-3F and ~12V RMS input with -14 dB pre-gain.
 I can use 9-11 o'clock range easily. And 12 o'clock or more with quiet tracks or movies.
 When I attenuate the input and turn the volume up on V281 simultaneously I can not notice any difference in sound.
 Is there any reason why you want to strictly follow the recommendation about 12 o'clock position for normal listening levels?


----------



## vortrex

No real reason, only following the suggestion to be above 12 o'clock for the best sound.

It did seem like I was getting some clipping last night with it straight from the box. That's why I wondered if the output from the Gungnir was too much.


----------



## watchdog507

vortrex said:


> No real reason, only following the suggestion to be above 12 o'clock for the best sound.


 
 The whole point of decreasing gain is to allow you to have a greater control of incremental volume adjustments to give the "perfect" volume for whatever passage of music you are listening to.  I find there is a range that requires volume adjustments between recordings.


----------



## zhgutov

watchdog507 said:


> The whole point of decreasing gain is to allow you to have a greater control of incremental volume adjustments to give the "perfect" volume for whatever passage of music you are listening to.  I find there is a range that requires volume adjustments between recordings.


 
  
 I think you can use positions between detents of the "simple" volume control. But personally, I don't have such necessity.
 Probably, this recommendation is originated because of possible non-linearities for positions below 9 o'clock.
 And because guys from Violectric filter potentiometers with the channel mismatch greater than 0.3 dB at 12 o'clock.
 In my case this is the first 3 dentents only, with the slight shift towards the right channel.
 For the relay-based volume control there should not be such problem at all.
 And as I know relay-based volume control attenuates the signal by 0.75 dB per step, not like "simple" volume control.


----------



## zhgutov

vortrex said:


> No real reason, only following the suggestion to be above 12 o'clock for the best sound.
> 
> It did seem like I was getting some clipping last night with it straight from the box. That's why I wondered if the output from the Gungnir was too much.


 
  
 You can check this by swapping input channels or by changing the input level, or something like this.
 The clipping may disappear or change it's character if it is caused by equipment.
 The clipping should sound the same if it is in the music (not the rare case).
 It is easy to detect such things with the V281.


----------



## mulder01

The unbalanced input will be quieter and give you more range with the volume control if you want it.


----------



## vortrex

I did the -6 and the -12, that's working well. 

Figured out the clipping issue. I was using Roon for the first time when I got the amp and didn't have the settings totally correct. 

It's amazing the amount of detail this amp provides compared to my Moljnir 2 with holy grail Telefunken tubes.


----------



## boomtube

Anyone have experience with iFi iCan Pro?...if so, how does it compare with v281?


----------



## novicez1

@boomtube
  
 Try contacting @project86. He had reviewed both.


----------



## Khragon

boomtube said:


> Anyone have experience with iFi iCan Pro?...if so, how does it compare with v281?


 
 I used to have v281, but sold it because it was too dark for my taste, iFi Pro iCan has similar dynamism as v281 but is with warm signature but not as warm as v281.  If you are OK with voiding the warranty, replacing the tube with WE396A will give a more neutral presentation compared to the solid state mode of the iCan Pro, so you get two amps in one.


----------



## Fegefeuer

boomtube said:


> Anyone have experience with iFi iCan Pro?...if so, how does it compare with v281?


 
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ifi-pro-ican-mixed-tube-and-solid-state-headphone-amplifier#5smDOtdt5BqxYTDy.97
  
 That's his review with a comparison to other amps including the V281


----------



## AppleheadMay

fegefeuer said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ifi-pro-ican-mixed-tube-and-solid-state-headphone-amplifier#5smDOtdt5BqxYTDy.97
> 
> That's his review with a comparison to other amps including the V281


 
  
  
 Really decent review!


----------



## boomtube

fegefeuer said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ifi-pro-ican-mixed-tube-and-solid-state-headphone-amplifier#5smDOtdt5BqxYTDy.97
> 
> That's his review with a comparison to other amps including the V281



Thanks! I'm torn between the two...I can audition them, so if don't like the first one I buy I'll have sell and get the other.


----------



## boomtube

khragon said:


> I used to have v281, but sold it because it was too dark for my taste, iFi Pro iCan has similar dynamism as v281 but is with warm signature but not as warm as v281.  If you are OK with voiding the warranty, replacing the tube with WE396A will give a more neutral presentation compared to the solid state mode of the iCan Pro, so you get two amps in one.


warm might be what I need as I'm trying to match an amp with Focal Utopia's...everyone I ask suggests copper cables and warmer amps.


----------



## watchdog507

boomtube said:


> warm might be what I need as I'm trying to match an amp with Focal Utopia's...everyone I ask suggests copper cables and warmer amps.


 
 One of my setups is Solid State a V281 and I don't know about "dark" per se as much as very accurate.  If your source is a poor recording or very bright, that's what you're going to hear!  I was running Lavricables XLR silver HP cables and I went to Black Dragon copper XLR.  I prefered the presentation. My DAC is a Mytek Brooklyn and it can present bright at times so I found the the V281/Brooklyn combo worked well with copper. Since you're going to invest a fair amount of money, I would suggest auditions and let your ears tell you what t buy.


----------



## sanjeewasam

watchdog507 said:


> One of my setups is Solid State a V281 and I don't know about "dark" per se as much as very accurate.  If your source is a poor recording or very bright, that's what you're going to hear!  I was running Lavricables XLR silver HP cables and I went to Black Dragon copper XLR.  I prefered the presentation. My DAC is a Mytek Brooklyn and it can present bright at times so I found the the V281/Brooklyn combo worked well with copper. Since you're going to invest a fair amount of money, I would suggest auditions and let your ears tell you what t buy.


 

 I know of a guy who had Moon audio Neo 430 AMP then AURALiC Taurus MKII then V281 and Master 9 now. At one point he was saying I do not recommend any SS and he also have custom built tube amp. After many Dacs he had Bricasti Design M1. He said Master9 AMP was the better one for Utopias but he could not stand the highs with M1 (M1 is about GBP6500) and got the cheaper Schitt Yoggy. With yoggy it was better for him and then decided to sell his Utopias as he was not still satisfied (Mind you he was advocating HE6 users to try Utopia when he first got it). Now back to his good old Hifiman HE6 with power amp/speaker amp and considering HE1000v2.
  
 So if you are having problems with Utoipia may be audition some pairing before spending heaps of money on cables which for many does not make any difference. If nothing works then look for different HPs


----------



## sanjeewasam

boomtube said:


> warm might be what I need as I'm trying to match an amp with Focal Utopia's...everyone I ask suggests copper cables and warmer amps.


 
 Many be try Moon Audio Neo 430 as Tyll use it as his review amp and he love Utopia with that


----------



## 13713

khragon said:


> I used to have v281, but sold it because it was too dark for my taste, iFi Pro iCan has similar dynamism as v281 but is with warm signature but not as warm as v281.  If you are OK with voiding the warranty, replacing the tube with WE396A will give a more neutral presentation compared to the solid state mode of the iCan Pro, so you get two amps in one.




Could you possibly explain dark for me. I understand that you didn't like the V281 but the term dark does not make sense to me. Sorry in advance for the confusion on my part.


----------



## socks mk2

13713 said:


> Could you possibly explain dark for me. I understand that you didn't like the V281 but the term dark does not make sense to me. Sorry in advance for the confusion on my part.


http://www.stereophile.com/reference/50/
*dark* A warm, mellow, excessively rich quality in reproduced sound. The audible effect of a frequency response which is clockwise-tilted across the entire range, so that output diminishes with increasing frequency. Compare "light."


----------



## 13713

socks mk2 said:


> http://www.stereophile.com/reference/50/
> *dark* A warm, mellow, excessively rich quality in reproduced sound. The audible effect of a frequency response which is clockwise-tilted across the entire range, so that output diminishes with increasing frequency. Compare "light."




Thank you.


----------



## fixated

I haven't found the V281 dark at all, more neutral-warm than being overall dark. But that's just for my setup, I'd imagine having different setups would greatly affect how dark you would perceive the V281.


----------



## zappazappazappa

lonerboy13 said:


> I haven't found the V281 dark at all, more neutral-warm than being overall dark. But that's just for my setup, I'd imagine having different setups would greatly affect how dark you would perceive the V281.


 

 +1. The V281 is a very neutral but natural sounding amp, i.e it does not sound edgy or bright unless used with components which are edgy or bright. The rest of my system is Oppo BDP-105D used as transport and Chord Hugo TT used as DAC, main headphones are Mr Speakers Ether Flow though I also use Sennheiser HD800's and Oppo PM-1's (which can be dark sounding!). I only use the balanced headphone input.


----------



## zappazappazappa

I've noticed that Audio Sanctuary in the UK now stock Violectric. Does anyone know who distibutes Violectric in the UK? I cant find the information on the Lake People website.


----------



## Yoga

Another agreement here that the V281 isn't dark. Musical doesn't imply a lack of definition.


----------



## fixated

zappazappazappa said:


> +1. The V281 is a very neutral but natural sounding amp, i.e it does not sound edgy or bright unless used with components which are edgy or bright. The rest of my system is Oppo BDP-105D used as transport and Chord Hugo TT used as DAC, main headphones are Mr Speakers Ether Flow though I also use Sennheiser HD800's and Oppo PM-1's (which can be dark sounding!). I only use the balanced headphone input.


 
  
 I use the Ether Flow's too as my main HP running it through a balanced cable, I haven't found it overly bright as compared to other amps that I've tried. Although one thing that I've noticed is that it sounds different when I use a lower gain setting, I still prefer having it with no gain switches flipped whatsoever.


----------



## novicez1

The unbalanced headphone out of the V281 does indeed sound "dark", at least for me, coming from the Lake People G109A. Going balanced, that darkness is gone.


----------



## Anatidae

When the V200 first came out and started becoming more popular, it was labelled as "dark" by a few people in the headphone world. The label has somehow been recycled for every single one of their amps. It's total crap - they reveal exactly how the transducer was tuned and add nothing to it with full control.


----------



## 3083joe

anatidae said:


> When the V200 first came out and started becoming more popular, it was labelled as "dark" by a few people in the headphone world. The label has somehow been recycled for every single one of their amps. It's total crap - they reveal exactly how the transducer was tuned and add nothing to it with full control.



Agree 100%!


----------



## Pharmaboy

novicez1 said:


> The unbalanced headphone out of the V281 does indeed sound "dark", at least for me, coming from the Lake People G109A. Going balanced, that darkness is gone.


 
  
Just picked up a mint/used V281 & installed in system today. It has the 128-step upgrade pot + remote, but no DAC (an Audio GD NOS 19 covers that). I have it at the default/lowest gain setting. Pictures to follow.
  
With V281 as system preamp (driving powered speakers + sub), I listened ~30 minutes--then another 30" listening to SE output into a good-sounding budget headphone, the Marantz MPH-2 (balanced cable hasn't arrived yet, so didn't try the Ori yet). 
  
A few preliminary observations: 

This is a rather amazing amp/preamp. The design & construction are so well thought out, so purposeful. There are controls for virtually every operational/sonic feature. My one & only complaint is that I can't see the little hash-mark on the big black dial, indicating setting of the volume pot (but that's easy enough to remedy). This unit gives the impression of great solidity & competence. I even like how it looks (silver faceplate/black feet)...just as I like the looks of the G109-A.
As preamp, the V281 is overall the best sounding of any I've used (Matrix M Stage HPA-1; Burson Soloist; Audio GD SA-31SE)--depth & impact of the bass are spectacular. Notes seem to jump out of the speakers, even at low volumes (which means the dynamics are top-notch). While the SA-31SE is slightly more convenient as preamp (you can see exact volume settings via alphanumeric display & adjust easily w/remote), the V281 betters it sonically in terms of bass & dynamics. However, the SA-31SE has its version of sonic greatness (spectacular soundstaging, midrange finesse & note separation). More comparisons needed in those areas (in which the V281 is very good also). 
For headphones, the V281 has the best bass I've yet heard. Everything you could want from bass--impact, depth/reach, note texture/timbre--is here in spades. I've only done preliminary listening on 1 HP, but already I hear the widest soundstage of any unit on hand + great dynamics, top to bottom. The SA-31SE provides just a bit more finesse in the midrange, note separation, reproduction of space, etc. Then again, those qualities supposedly get even better when the V281 is used in balanced mode.
  
I also own the Lake People G109-A (a wonderful amp that does everything well). I'll do more comparisons between it & the V281 soon. I wouldn't call either amp "dark" -- IMO neither has rolled off treble, though both convey a richness in upper bass/lower midrange that matches what I hear in live music (many amps are voiced for "accuracy," more treble detail, etc, and usually that comes w/o lower range richness/solidity). 
  
I would characterize both units as _slightly_ warm, euphonic, "friendly," etc, only because they don't emphasize treble or upper midrange & fully convey the bass & lower midrange impact.


----------



## jmac1516

pharmaboy said:


> Just picked up a mint/used V281 & installed in system today. It has the 128-step upgrade pot + remote, but no DAC (an Audio GD NOS 19 covers that). I have it at the default/lowest gain setting. Pictures to follow.


 
  
 Congrats on a fantastic addition to your speaker and HP systems!!


----------



## watchdog507

pharmaboy said:


> Just picked up a mint/used V281 & installed in system today. It has the 128-step upgrade pot + remote, but no DAC (an Audio GD NOS 19 covers that). I have it at the default/lowest gain setting. Pictures to follow.
> 
> With V281 as system preamp (driving powered speakers + sub), I listened ~30 minutes--then another 30" listening to SE output into a good-sounding budget headphone, the Marantz MPH-2 (balanced cable hasn't arrived yet, so didn't try the Ori yet).
> 
> ...


 
 Congratulations on your acquisition!  I find my V281 to be a joy to turn on and it never disappoints me with it's flexibility and competence.  I've been a serial equipment flipper at times but I think that between the V281 and the WA5-LE I'm just going to enjoy the music.


----------



## boomtube

What's the practical difference between v220 and v281?


----------



## Pharmaboy

boomtube said:


> What's the practical difference between v220 and v281?


 
  
 from Violectric USA website:
  
 "*V281* incorporates 4 times the award winning famous 8-transistor (per channel) amps from V200 for a smooth and relaxed sound stage and true balanced headphone outputs.​"
  
 The V281 has a balanced output. The V220 does not. I'm pretty sure the V220 is the amp/preamp upgrade of the V200 amp-only model (single-ended); whereas the V281 is the amp/preamp upgrade of the V280 model (balanced)
  
 In balanced mode, the V281 has over 4X the output power @600 ohms than the V220. @100 ohms, it has double the output power.
  
 I'm not sure, but I think there are more SS output devices in the V281 (there must be to account for all that add'l power).
  
 Those are pretty big differences. But the similarities are also quite evident:

the use identical cases
the front panels are nearly identical, except for XLR output on V281, not on V220
both can be used as a preamp
both have options for a motorized R27 Alps pot + remote (this is the std stepped pot w/I believe 43 steps); or a 128-step pot + remote.
  
 So both V281 and V220 are extremely versatile, powerful amp/preamps...but the V281 is balanced throughout and has considerably more power for ~$500 more (comparing the base models w/o remote control and/or upgrade stepped pot on either).


----------



## Pharmaboy

Forgot 1 point about V281 vs V220: both have XLR inputs on the back. That's pretty confusing, since the V281 has a balanced/XLR output, while the V220 has just single-ended/TRS output.
  
 I believe the explanation is that both units were designed to be used in professional environments (as well as consumer), and in pro settings, signals are often routed via XLR cables. So the V220 allows connection to either SE or balanced inputs--but the headphone out in it is only SE/TRS.
  
 What's really confusing is that both units also allow balanced preamp outputs via the back panel (ie, the input run through the volume pot, thus volume-controlled, in preamp mode). I guess that indicates the volume pots on both are capable of either balanced or SE operation. In other words, the V220 can pass a balanced signal to an amp, powered speakers, etc; but it can only output a balanced/XLR signal via the headphone out. Hard to get one's mind around this, but I'm looking at the specs, and it is so.


----------



## watchdog507

Here are the differences:
  
 http://aphroditecu29.com/Violectric/V220V281.aspx


----------



## 3083joe

pharmaboy said:


> Forgot 1 point about V281 vs V220: both have XLR inputs on the back. That's pretty confusing, since the V281 has a balanced/XLR output, while the V220 has just single-ended/TRS output.
> 
> I believe the explanation is that both units were designed to be used in professional environments (as well as consumer), and in pro settings, signals are often routed via XLR cables. So the V220 allows connection to either SE or balanced inputs--but the headphone out in it is only SE/TRS.
> 
> What's really confusing is that both units also allow balanced preamp outputs via the back panel (ie, the input run through the volume pot, thus volume-controlled, in preamp mode). I guess that indicates the volume pots on both are capable of either balanced or SE operation. In other words, the V220 can pass a balanced signal to an amp, powered speakers, etc; but it can only output a balanced/XLR signal via the headphone out. Hard to get one's mind around this, but I'm looking at the specs, and it is so.



Agreed. And confusing in lots of ways.


----------



## watchdog507

The V281 has a balanced output/bypass on the back.  I was originally running a balanced input to the V281 from my Mytek Brooklyn.  Then I was cascading a balanced cable output to my WA5-LE.  I was not really pleased by what I was hearing.  I then reconfigured the Mytek to provide a balanced signal directly to the WA5-LE and I then used the remaining Single Ended Mytek output to the V281.  This gave me a compromise but the sound was still exceptional.  I would keep this in mind when using the V281 output/bypass to another device.


----------



## Pharmaboy

watchdog507 said:


> Here are the differences:
> 
> http://aphroditecu29.com/Violectric/V220V281.aspx


 
  
 Damn! That's the perfect explanation...


----------



## davidespinosa

If you want to understand how the V281 works, look at the block diagram in the manual.


----------



## Pharmaboy

davidespinosa said:


> If you want to understand how the V281 works, look at the block diagram in the manual.


 
  
 I can't make sense of that diagram. Guess it doesn't matter, since I _can_ make sense of the manual (& have the V281).


----------



## sandalaudio

pharmaboy said:


> I can't make sense of that diagram. Guess it doesn't matter, since I _can_ make sense of the manual (& have the V281).


 
  
 The diagrams explain that both V220 and V281 converts balanced XLR to single ended (using a summing opamp) as soon as the signal enters the chassis.
  
 According to the diagram the volume knob works in singled-ended regardless of V220 or V281.
  
 The rear XLR output and front XLR headphone output (for V281 only) are generated by the single-ended signal being converted to balanced once again.
  
 Some people may argue that this is not "pure" etc, but the whole aim of balanced connection in the professional sector is to improve resilience to noise along the long cable lengths, and to have more headroom against noise.
  
 Since the  V220/V281 has a "balanced to single-ended to balanced" conversion internally (with active circuits), it does make sense that it affects the sound when used as a balanced preamp. It is really a pre"amp", not a passive attenuator box.


----------



## Pharmaboy

More listening on the V281 today--as preamp, not HP amp (have been limited in HP use recently). And this unit is impressing the hell out of me...
  
 I have a decent pair of powered speakers (Swan M200 MKIIIs) + a quality sub (SVS SB-1000). They sound pretty good, especially at low volume. But for some time I've felt the urge to upgrade: the Swans' 5.25" woofer just couldn't seem to give the mid- & upper-bass impact I want. So I've been researching various studio monitors for months.
  
 But listening to these speakers today w/V281 as preamp (wav files/JRiver), I'm hearing things I never heard from them before. The entire bass range is now solid as a rock & hits hard. Dynamics are extremely good, better than I've ever heard on the desktop. Another big change is imaging/soundstaging: there's now a rock-solid center image (haven't had that before--at least not to this degree), and sounds are placed above and to the outsides of each speaker. When I turn up the volume, everything gets big is a hurry.
  
 Listened to well recorded jazz cuts, where it's easy to isolate each instrument's contribution--string bass, drums, vibraphones, etc.; also a number of exceedingly well recorded studio pop cuts by Steely Dan & Donald Fagen. Volume was medium, at most, but sounds just jump out of the speakers now. It's suddenly very easy to hear different reverb characteristics on each cut.
  
 I've only used the V281 for 2 days, with a little HP listening & the rest in preamp mode--and it's clearly in different league entirely from other amp/preamps (I have several good ones, too, such as the Audio GD SA-31SE).
  
 This is turning into one of the rare & exciting audio products where there's a lot of "upside," many new performance aspects to explore and new ways to hear familiar music. I can't wait to hear the Ori via balanced cables on the V281.
 I'll still likely upgrade the speakers, but now I know the V281 will push the limits of any studio monitor I select.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sandalaudio said:


> The diagrams explain that both V220 and V281 converts balanced XLR to single ended (using a summing opamp) as soon as the signal enters the chassis.
> 
> According to the diagram the volume knob works in singled-ended regardless of V220 or V281.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your post is really interesting. I can't read block diagrams and have, at best, a rudimentary understanding of the whole SE vs balanced thing--not to mention there are many ways balanced operation can be implemented in an amp (very confusing).
  
 I have SE inputs only (DAC is SE) w/no plans to get a balanced DAC. Still, I got the V281, as well as the LC, primarily because a number of reviewers of each said these units sound different, and in some ways, better via balanced HP out. Apparently in each unit, the balanced HP output utilizes more output power devices than the SE HP output does.
  
 And re the V281, I was very interested to see whether its performance as a preamp would be an upgrade. As expressed in my post above, that question has been answered resoundingly & positively...


----------



## sandalaudio

pharmaboy said:


> Your post is really interesting. I can't read block diagrams and have, at best, a rudimentary understanding of the whole SE vs balanced thing--not to mention there are many ways balanced operation can be implemented in an amp (very confusing).
> 
> I have SE inputs only (DAC is SE) w/no plans to get a balanced DAC. Still, I got the V281, as well as the LC, primarily because a number of reviewers of each said these units sound different, and in some ways, better via balanced HP out. Apparently in each unit, the balanced HP output utilizes more output power devices than the SE HP output does.
> 
> And re the V281, I was very interested to see whether its performance as a preamp would be an upgrade. As expressed in my post above, that question has been answered resoundingly & positively...


 
  
 As a preamp, V281 could influence the sound because it is not a simple pass-through with a volume knob. Regardless of whether you are using XLR or RCA (I guess RCA for your Swan), the signal goes through a buffer opamp at the input, then the volume knob, then the buffer opamp at the output. V281 acts as a current buffer amp to condition the signal.
  
 Some people will object to this, and will say a straight wire with a volume knob is the best, but it depends on what you are connecting to what, and most importantly, what sounds good for you.
  
  
 As for the balanced headphone connection, like you mentioned, single ended headphones would only use half the amplifier circuit that inside the V281's huge box (effectively making it a V220), so it does feel like a waste of money. There are pros (reduced crosstalk) and cons (higher output impedance) of balanced headphone connection, so once again it is subjective. Basically, buying the V281 allows you to make that choice, case-by-case, which is not to say that balanced is always better in all cases.
  
 Anyhow, technical facts are not as important as what sounds good for you, provided that the amp is not distorting significantly. This is where V220 and V281 excels at. It would be embarrassing to say that a particular amp sounds "hot and exciting" when it is actually distorting the original signal by 10% etc.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sandalaudio said:


> As a preamp, V281 could influence the sound because it is not a simple pass-through with a volume knob. Regardless of whether you are using XLR or RCA (I guess RCA for your Swan), the signal goes through a buffer opamp at the input, then the volume knob, then the buffer opamp at the output. V281 acts as a current buffer amp to condition the signal.
> 
> Some people will object to this, and will say a straight wire with a volume knob is the best, but it depends on what you are connecting to what, and most importantly, what sounds good for you.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Again, a very interesting post. I'm learning from this. Your first paragraph really hits home because I have a long & tangled history w/passive volume controllers. I had one good experience (inexpensive box) & one bad experience (expensive box), finally deciding that in a system where interconnects & speakers occasionally change, I couldn't easily control the impedance & capacitance variables that affect passives. I turned to SS preamps/amps last year and never looked back.
  
 1/2 the V281's power circuits = a V200, so even "just" single-ended, this amp is a monster, unfazed by any load. That's easy to hear via SE output (haven't yet heard balanced). The balanced cable I ordered (Forza AudioWorks HCP Noir) will have a "pigtail" made of the same wire (4-pin female XLR/headphone side & 1/4" TRS/amp side). So I'll be able to quickly/easily compare the SE vs balanced sound of the V281 using my ZMF Ori (an experiment I'm really looking forward to).
  
 Subjective experience of sound doesn't always correlate to design of the audio component in question--but what I hear coming from the V281, both on SE headphone output and RCA-outs to speakers, is undistorted, dynamic & effortless (at all volume settings).


----------



## boomtube

Anyone use a tube preamp with their v281?


----------



## fzman

Just thought I'd ask.  If I were to sell my Taurus and 430HAD, should I buy the ifi pro iCan, or the 280?  Don;t really need the preamp function, this is just to cennect to my Directstream Jr, playing Roon via the ethernet input, using my Utopias.  USB into the Dac for compuert stuff too.
  
 I listen to acoustic jazz, prog rock, and numetal, and am pretty eclectic.  I want natural timbre, dynamics, and that 3-D, palpable, the musicians are in front of you sound.
  
 OK, go!


----------



## mulder01

Well, I had the ifi idsd and I have the 281, so it's not really the same as the question you're asking, but if you're comparing house sound with house sound, I sold the ifi because I found it too fatiguing - the vio has a bit more of a relaxed sound. At first I found the ifi to be more forward with the detail which seems more immediately impressive, but I found over a listening session I would continually be turning the volume down and getting 'over it' whereas the vio I can just keep listening to and want to turn it up rather than down. Is the ican the one with the tube mode? That might give you the option to take the edge off a bit, but it wasn't my cup of tea.


----------



## Yoga

fzman said:


> Just thought I'd ask.  If I were to sell my Taurus and 430HAD, should I buy the ifi pro iCan, or the 280?  Don;t really need the preamp function, this is just to cennect to my Directstream Jr, playing Roon via the ethernet input, using my Utopias.  USB into the Dac for compuert stuff too.
> 
> I listen to acoustic jazz, prog rock, and numetal, and am pretty eclectic.  I want natural timbre, dynamics, and that 3-D, palpable, the musicians are in front of you sound.
> 
> OK, go!


 

 You can't go wrong with either really (running the V281 balanced).
  
 Do you want the option of tubes? Do you want some control over the sound (bass/treble) direct on the amp? That should be your deciding factor. 

 I wanted reference sound with no tinkering, and hence opted for the V281.


----------



## boomtube

yoga said:


> You can't go wrong with either really (running the V281 balanced).
> 
> Do you want the option of tubes? Do you want some control over the sound (bass/treble) direct on the amp? That should be your deciding factor.
> 
> ...


...option of tubes? I just picked up a v281 and was looking for tube preamp recommendations. Can you give some insight on preamp's that compliment the v281?


----------



## fixated

Just wanted to share how amazingly versatile the V281's are. Recently got the Angie's and they seem to drive them pretty well, was expecting some hiss but was quiet the whole time.
  

  
 Now just gotta find a portable setup to match it, as I can't really bring the V281 to the office


----------



## Yoga

boomtube said:


> ...option of tubes? I just picked up a v281 and was looking for tube preamp recommendations. Can you give some insight on preamp's that compliment the v281?


 

 I was referring to iCan Pro vs V281. The former has an internal tube stage you can engage/bypass.


----------



## Pharmaboy

(reactions to various recent posts)
  
 Re iFi iCan, I had one last year and found it to be competent and flexible, but not impressive in any one area. It sounded OK but left me kind of unexcited. So I sold it.

Never heard the iFi DAC, but have repeatedly heard the "black" version of the DAC/HP amp is something special.
  
 Re V281, my new (used) V281 continues to completely blow my mind. I bought it primarily for balanced headphone use (ZMF Omni/Ori, an amazing headphone)--but while waiting for the new balanced cable to arrive, I've repeatedly been shocked at how great the V281 is SE w/good-sounding, inexpensive headphones (Fidelio X2s; Marantz MPH-2's). The biggest surprise has been the V281's spectacular performance as a preamp for my powered speakers + sub...I've never heard this system sound so good.
  
 I have 2 Violectric amps now, the Lake People G109-A & the V281. While neither strikes me as especially "warm," in the sense of having overt, tube-like colorations, what both have is:

A listenable, humane SS sound that never pushes treble. No ears bleeding, extreme/clinincal "accuracy" here, though every single note is present & accounted for throughout the entire frequency range.
Really solid, impactful bass and lower midrange, sounding much like real live music does in those registers.
The V281 in particular has the best bass I've ever hear -- not hyped, not "bumped," just extremely dynamic, hitting hard, and "present." Moreover, bass instruments like string or electric bass, marimbas, massed cellos, actually sound like they do IRL.
  
 And then there's soundstaging. The V281 is in a class by itself there, from what I can tell. It throws a wide soundstage and gives very clear cues re instrument placing. True, it doesn't do "depth" w/in the soundstage as tube amps can do--but no SS amp really can match tubes there.


----------



## Fegefeuer

oh, you'll be in for a shock once your headphones run balanced from this amp and activates all engines.  
 I love the bass part and how tight, tactile (though this is much more the trait of the headphone) and hardhitting it gets, together with the grand stage and "insight" into the music.
 It made me appreciate the Denon's much more. Despite losing out in a few technicalities compared to the HD800 they're fire and forget headphones, offering better compat. with music, especially all kinds of electronic. EDM is pure joy with them now that they are beastly amped and don't have the peaks of the TH-900 I used to own.


----------



## Pharmaboy

fegefeuer said:


> oh, you'll be in for a shock once your headphones run balanced from this amp and activates all engines.
> I love the bass part and how tight, tactile (though this is much more the trait of the headphone) and hardhitting it gets, together with the grand stage and "insight" into the music.
> It made me appreciate the Denon's much more. Despite losing out in a few technicalities compared to the HD800 they're fire and forget headphones, offering better compat. with music, especially all kinds of electronic. EDM is pure joy with them now that they are beastly amped and don't have the peaks of the TH-900 I used to own.


 
  
 Damn. You're saying exactly what others have said about balanced mode from the V281. I can't wait to hear it. The Ori is IMHO a subtle yet spectacularly good HP, and the best way to hear it is balanced.
  
 Just checked w/Forza AudioWorks, from whom I ordered the balanced cable--to see when I can expect it.
  
 Re Denon HP (just checked your profile)--are you referring to DENON AH-D2000? I've been curious about various Denons, but a bad experience w/one of the spinoff models (mahogany TH-X00's) kind of shut me down re Denons. At the moment I'm very interested in another spinoff design, the E-MU Teak.
  
 If you're up for a cheap but really good-sounding HP for electronic music (any music, really)-- try any of the ISK MDH9000 clones (4-5 look-alike/sound-alike designs based on that platform). My pick of that litter is the Marantz MPH-2's, which BTW sound ridiculously good on the V281 run SE. Terrific bass and good tonal balance, top to bottom.
  
 There's an entire thread on inexpensive chinese headphones here, and I've often contributed regarding the Marantz' and another clone I owned, the LyxPro HAS-30.
  
 (sorry to hijack this thread for that)


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm talking about the new Denon AH-D7200. 
  
 When will your cable arrive? Looking forward to your impressions after listening to them balanced.


----------



## Pharmaboy

fegefeuer said:


> I'm talking about the new Denon AH-D7200.
> 
> When will your cable arrive? Looking forward to your impressions after listening to them balanced.


 
  
 Ahh, the AH-7200. Haven't heard much about that. Are they good? Better than the 7000?
  
 Just learned that my cable will ship in 1-2 days, probably get here by weekend, Monday at latest.
  
 I'll use it to burn in my new Liquid Carbon (which Head-Fi posts indicate is best done balanced, not SE). That takes ~6 days 24/7. With that done, I'll finally be able to hear my Ori on both the LC & the V281.
  
 Funny how things work out. I was desperate to find a mint/used V281 w/128-step pot & remote, but as of ~1 month ago, just couldn't find one. So I gave up & ordered the LC (kinda shocked Cavalli still had stock on this final run). So of course, a day after the LC showed up, a Head-Fi'er PM'd me, offering his V281 (mint condition w/upgraded pot) F.S. It was insane to buy 2 not-so-cheap amps (especially the V281!) in close succession like that.
  
 (birds gotta swim & fish gotta fly)


----------



## Yoga

The V281 needs more love. If it were a U.S. amp and more readily available to most there I'm sure it would have it :¬)


----------



## Pharmaboy

yoga said:


> The V281 needs more love. If it were a U.S. amp and more readily available to most here I'm sure it would have it :¬)


 

 So true! You're in the UK, right? Are V281s low profile there, like they are in the U.S.?
  
 From what I can tell from the pattern of F.S. listings, here and elsewhere, Violectric in general has a fairly high profile (or at, least somewhat higher than here) in Germany and nearby central European countries.
  
 What's odd about the U.S. situation (IMO) is that Violectric maintains a rather well-operated & regarded U.S. operation. I dealt w/them when buying my Lake People G109-A...it was a terrific experience. So why so little love here?
  
 Part of the answer is no doubt due to a low profile on their part. I don't know if they're represented at shows (here or in EU)--but I don't ever remember seeing advertisements in audio magazines (I get most of them)...and certainly no actual reviews or product profiles. There's a lot of exposure being given to headphone audio in the mainstream audio press right now, but it seems triggered by a combination of ads placed in those mags, plus review samples/loaners being freely offered to reviewers.
  
 (ie, you gotta be in it, to win it)


----------



## watchdog507

yoga said:


> The V281 needs more love. If it were a U.S. amp and more readily available to most here I'm sure it would have it :¬)


 
 I bought mine from a dealer who had it on consignment. It was as new and had the stepped attenuator and remote.  There are very few of them available in Canada. I like my V281 so much that when I added a WA5-LE, I decided to keep it.  I have no regrets and it's interesting to switch back and forth from tubes to Solid State to see how music is rendered differently.


----------



## MattRG

yoga said:


> The V281 needs more love. If it were a U.S. amp and more readily available to most there I'm sure it would have it :¬)


 
 It isn't that they are hard to come by in the USA but man are they pricey if purchased new.  You can go right to the violectric usa website and order your V281 at pretty much anytime.  I've done my fair share of window shopping on their website and try to keep up with what they are doing.  Notice I'm not making a value judgement.  They may very well be worth every penny.  But when you have a two grand (minimum) buy-in it certainly limits the amount of exposure that the product is going to get in the personal audio space.
  
 I would love to be able to hear one and afford one someday and I wish Lake People much success with their products here in the USA.


----------



## Pharmaboy

fegefeuer said:


> oh, you'll be in for a shock once your headphones run balanced from this amp and activates all engines.
> I love the bass part and how tight, tactile (though this is much more the trait of the headphone) and hardhitting it gets, together with the grand stage and "insight" into the music.
> It made me appreciate the Denon's much more. Despite losing out in a few technicalities compared to the HD800 they're fire and forget headphones, offering better compat. with music, especially all kinds of electronic. EDM is pure joy with them now that they are beastly amped and don't have the peaks of the TH-900 I used to own.


 
  
 Yesterday a nice piece of luck happened: a very helpful local Head-Fi'er loaned me his balanced cable purchased from ZMF for his Eikon. So all of a sudden, I can listen to my ZMF Ori (wonderful headphone!) in balanced mode on the V281, also on a new Liquid Carbon I just started burning it. I've been on a crazy deadline for days, so just managed 5" ear-time on each amp via balanced out.
  
 DAMN!! The Ori sounded really good via SE, but it's quite different (better in just about every way) via balanced. The V281 is a pure monster amp--endless power & finesse at the same time. It's going to take me quite awhile to figure all the good things it does for my Ori balanced (more listening tomorrow night, hopefully).
  
 The biggest surprise came from the LC. It sounded terrible via balanced cable when I first turned it on yesterday (cold & not burned in at all). But just 20 hours later it sounds totally different. This hot little box (it does run hot) controls the power-hog Ori like it was nothing, and the bass is shockingly good--right up there w/the V281 (the bass champ in my experience). If the LC sounds this good at 20 hrs burn-in (Cavalli recommends 150 hrs), I'm in for quite a thrill-ride...
  
 (balanced is really amazing)


----------



## davidespinosa

mattrg said:


> It isn't that they are hard to come by in the USA but man are they pricey if purchased new.


 
  
 You could buy a Lake People HPA RS 08.  It's balanced.


----------



## MattRG

davidespinosa said:


> You could buy a Lake People HPA RS 08.  It's balanced.


 
 I have actually considered that but from what I have read the V280 and V281 have a warmer sound (which I would probably prefer) over the more neutral, reference Lake People version.


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## mulder01

A used v281 is not that expensive when you consider that many prefer it to amps with double or more the retail price. In Australia they were being sold for $1999 AUD (on sale) so would sell second hand for around the $1k - $1.5k AUD mark I would imagine. Which is around the $1k USD mark depending on condition. If you could ship a second hand one over from down under and get a sound that rivals amps with a $4k USD price tag, it's really quite good for the money.


----------



## Badas

mulder01 said:


> A used v281 is not that expensive when you consider that many prefer it to amps with double or more the retail price. In Australia they were being sold for $1999 AUD (on sale) so would sell second hand for around the $1k - $1.5k AUD mark I would imagine. Which is around the $1k USD mark depending on condition. If you could ship a second hand one over from down under and get a sound that rivals amps with a $4k USD price tag, it's really quite good for the money.


 

 Watch out for the different power requirements.


----------



## 13713

Used is actually a great way to get into tgis hobby and still have some money.


----------



## novicez1

I think you can change the voltage by accessing the voltage switch inside the case.


----------



## Badas

novicez1 said:


> I think you can change the voltage by accessing the voltage switch inside the case.




Yes you can. I've seen the switch before. However I thought it was important to note that you can't import straight from Aussie and plug it in the US or any other 110V country without changing it first.


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## Pharmaboy

novicez1 said:


> I think you can change the voltage by accessing the voltage switch inside the case.


 
  
 true. it says so right in the manual...


----------



## emptymt

I'm using the Z1R with Cavalli Liquid Carbon now and it is possibly slightly too dark for some occasion, I want to increase the mids a bit in volume and forwardness.
 This is also due to the Z1R being super accurate with room acoustics(some vocal seems a bit far at times, and sometimes it is alright, I like intimate vocals)
  
 I heard that the V280 is neutral but has a little bit of warm in it, can anybody who has both the LC and V280/V281 make a comparison especially in tonality department?
  
 The DAC will be chord Mojo, but I'll definitely upgrade in the future, I just decided that I want to upgrade my amp first.
  
 I also need to buy balanced cable if I go this way I guess (Norne Draug 2C comes to mind, silver cable is just too expensive for me).
  
 Thanks a lot.


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## novicez1

@emptymt
  
 The Z1R are very dark headphones, if you check the FR graph you can see a 7.5db bump on bass frequencies (20~100hz range) tapers down to 0 db when it reaches 500 hz, then dips 7.5db as it approaches 5k.
  
 I seriously doubt there would be a headphone amp that will "fix" its characteristics other than heavily EQing it.


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## emptymt

novicez1 said:


> @emptymt
> 
> The Z1R are very dark headphones, if you check the FR graph you can see a 7.5db bump on bass frequencies (20~100hz range) tapers down to 0 db when it reaches 500 hz, then dips 7.5db as it approaches 5k.
> 
> I seriously doubt there would be a headphone amp that will "fix" its characteristics other than heavily EQing it.


 
 I know that.
 I'm not looking for neutrality or anything like that, in fact, I actually like the coloration (used to like neutral headphone, however my preference has changed), I just want to change it a bit to better suit my taste, had the mid has more quantity and a little bit more forward, it would be perfect for me.
  
 I think the combo of Mojo, LC, Z1R (all has warm) is the cause here, if the V280/1 is a lot more neutral than the LC, my problem should be fixed by changing the amp from LC to either of them.
  
 Auditioning is preferable however the Z1R has no balance cable so I can't try it balance mode.


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## mulder01

Crazy question, but if you live in Melbourne, why not just pop down to a2a and there are dozens of amps there you can try, and then make a purchase you're sure you'll be happy with.

In regard to the 281, some call it neutral, some call it warm. I would call it warm. If you need a brighter amp I don't know that the 281 is the best way to go.


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## emptymt

mulder01 said:


> Crazy question, but if you live in Melbourne, why not just pop down to a2a and there are dozens of amps there you can try, and then make a purchase you're sure you'll be happy with.
> 
> In regard to the 281, some call it neutral, some call it warm. I would call it warm. If you need a brighter amp I don't know that the 281 is the best way to go.


 
 alright, thx man.
 I may need to call them first to see if they have an xlr terminated Z1R cable so that I can try it on in balanced mode.


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## Yoga

I've been producing and mixing late at night recently using the Abyss and V281. Stellar combo. 
  
 I'll be getting that Phi upgrade for sure.


----------



## Pharmaboy

emptymt said:


> I'm using the Z1R with Cavalli Liquid Carbon now and it is possibly slightly too dark for some occasion, I want to increase the mids a bit in volume and forwardness.
> This is also due to the Z1R being super accurate with room acoustics(some vocal seems a bit far at times, and sometimes it is alright, I like intimate vocals)
> 
> I heard that the V280 is neutral but has a little bit of warm in it, can anybody who has both the LC and V280/V281 make a comparison especially in tonality department?
> ...


 
  
 I have the LC (nearly finished 150 hrs burn-in); also the V281; but not the Z1R. I've listened to various HPs on each (ZMF Ori/balanced; Fidelio X2's & Marantz MPH-2's/SE). I am still learning about each amp, but so far have had fascinating experiences:
  
*Liquid Carbon*

It's a tiny little box. It runs quite hot. It's kind of handsome, but nothing about it inspires great confidence. It sure doesn't look powerful...
But it IS powerful. It drives the ZMF Ori like a big dog on a steel leash. I was really shocked how much power comes out, even on the low gain setting (I see no need for high gain switch here).
It sounds flat-out amazing balanced: big/wide/spacious soundstage; very deep & hard-hitting bass (another big surprise from this little box); and a roundness & "purity" to notes that is very pleasing.
It also sounds crazy good SE, which I had no expectation of. I had a mind-blowing experience listening to the X2's off the LC the other night, single-ended.
The X2's illustrate a weird but wonderful thing about the LC: you would think, "Well, this warm, bassy, expansive LC must sound like crap w/a warm, bassy, expansive headphone"--and you'd be wrong. It sounds amazing with headphones like that. Just amazing.
However, the LC is definitely not a "treble cannon" amp. It's does treble in a way I find quite luscious/satisfying, but if you seek an amp that gives forensic detail, bright arc-light revealing of tiny little sounds in every recording, etc...well, you'll be disappointed.
  
*Violectric V281:*

This is not a little box. It runs only mildly warm. It has just about every feature & control one could ask for (mine has the 128-step volume pot w/remote). It's a big, confident, utterly self-assured piece of audio gear: competent, composed, limitless power. There is nothing the V281 cannot do at least very well, and a few things it does spectacularly well.
Power: insane. I wouldn't dream of using higher gain (I don't want to be deaf), even on my power-hog ZMF Ori. I can't imagine a pair of headphones that wouldn't be driven to complete satisfaction by this beat.
Dynamics: extreme. No kidding...I've never heard notes jump out of headphones & speakers like they do w/the V281. I'd be afraid to play Tchaikovsky's 1812 overature w/the big cannon blast...I'd probably get a concussion & face sheet-rock repairs in the office.
Bass: State-of-the-art. The bass on the V281 goes all to the center of the earth. It reveals all the subtle tonal/timbral shadings of bass instruments. I keep hearing low frequency qualities w/the V281 that I'm not expecting, and I don't mean in some dry/forensive manner (edgy). It's 100% relaxed while it gives you a bass thumping.
Warm vs neutral: The V281 is my 2nd Violectric amp (the other is the very fine SE Lake People G109-A). I wouldn't call either one truly "warm" ...they don't sugar-coat,  filter, or sweeten music to any real degree. However, both are fully capable of relaying the bigness/thickness/impact of lower midrange & bass, whatever's in the recording--sounding just like music IRL (some amps won't do this); and the do treble in a very relaxed, real-sounding way, with plenty of detail but no brightness. Rather than "warm," I consider both amps relaxed, spacious, & big-sounding. Not treble-cannons at all.
Soundstaging: It's just amazing on the V281, best w/balanced output, but also wonderful w/SE. I know tube amps have a 3D quality SS don't, but IMO this is about as good as SS gets for soundstaging and rendition of space. The V281 is tied w/another great SS amp, the Audio GD SA-31SE, for best soundstaging & "space around notes." Actually, the SA-31SE is even better w/subtle percussion & spatial cues, but doesn't have the towering bass & powerful/relaxed quality of the V281.
Pre-amp: another huge surprise. I have 3 headphone amps that are also preamps (V281; SA-31SE; M Stage HPA-1), and just sold a 4th, the Burson Soloist. I thought I knew what my powered speakers (Swan M200 MKIII's) + sub (SVS SB-1000) sounded like--but then I plugged in the V281 as a system preamp and REALLY heard this setup. Amazing. Easily the best bass I've ever heard on the desktop...I had no idea where was so much energy in the upper bass/lower midrange on some of my recordings. And again, soundstaging; utter/total confidence in tonal/timbral rendition of music.
  
 At this point, I can't imagine ever not having the LC or the V281...


----------



## Gondwana

Hey guys,
  
 So how much in Mw in total does this amp puts out in a 32 ohm load running balanced ?
  
 I saw 2800 MW, so is this per channel ? x2 ? so 5600 MW total ? Or X4 because its balanced ?


----------



## emptymt

pharmaboy said:


> I have the LC (nearly finished 150 hrs burn-in); also the V281; but not the Z1R. I've listened to various HPs on each (ZMF Ori/balanced; Fidelio X2's & Marantz MPH-2's/SE). I am still learning about each amp, but so far have had fascinating experiences:
> 
> *Liquid Carbon*
> 
> ...


 

 Thx a lot for the comparison man, from what you say, The LC sugar coat but the V281, bit bpth has warm in it but LC more so.
 Is the difference in warmthness something you would call a big difference?
  
 I might actually get a balance XLR cable/adapter first before going into a store to try the v280/1.


----------



## Pharmaboy

emptymt said:


> Thx a lot for the comparison man, from what you say, The LC sugar coat but the V281, bit bpth has warm in it but LC more so.
> Is the difference in warmthness something you would call a big difference?
> 
> I might actually get a balance XLR cable/adapter first before going into a store to try the v280/1.


 
  
 The difference in warmth is significant, not so much in degree (ie, LC super-warm vs V281 slightly-warm), but in quality top-to-bottom: these 2 amps don't sound all that much alike, and they react differently to different headphones.
  
 The warmth in the LC is global--all frequencies--but IMO is not excessive at all. Instead, it sound luminous, dramatic...beautiful (to use an emotionally charged word). Notes swell up & decay much like tube amps, but then there's that terrific bass (you wouldn't get that kind of bass from a tube amp). It's a somewhat "wet" sound overall, certainly not dry & clinical. Maybe others here would hate the LC's sonic approach, but I really like it.
  
 In the V281, that little bit of warmth is just one ingredient (though a very welcome one) in the overall sound quality, which is full, clear, black background, hard hitting in lower midrange + entire bass range, extremely dynamic, great treble--but zero brightness. The V281 is slightly "warm" ("friendly" sounding) in the sense that it could blow your brains out if it wanted--but it never does. It all pulls together in a very suave, persuasive sound concept.
  
 IMO there's more to all this than "warm" vs "neutral." The "warmth" of the LC definitely doesn't function as a "filter" that lays on top of every note, making it sound one way/one way only. The surprising synergy between the LC & the Fidelio X2's really has me trying to figure this out.
  
 A review of the LC by a really talented reviewer, @Aornic, discussed the LC taking what's good about a warm pair of headphones (in his case, the warm, bassy, "friendly" ZMF Omni) and making sound it even better. That's surprising because you'd expect an additive effect (warm/bassy/friendly amp + warm/bassy/friendly HP  = maple syrup)--but instead, you get terrific synergy. The LC does this over & over w/different headphones. I haven't quite figured it out yet.
  
 If you can get a balanced cable, that's the ideal way to audition the V281. It's really good SE, but it's crazy good balanced.


----------



## zhgutov

gondwana said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So how much in Mw in total does this amp puts out in a 32 ohm load running balanced ?
> 
> I saw 2800 MW, so is this per channel ? x2 ? so 5600 MW total ? Or X4 because its balanced ?


 

 It is ~1300 mW per channel @ 32 Ohm until clipping. At this level the signal is clean.
 Look here: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v281-balance.php#rw13
  
 It is not so much more than in SE mode for low impedances, but in balanced mode it has less distortion.
 Looks like the current limiter.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> It is ~1300 mW per channel @ 32 Ohm until clipping. At this level the signal is clean.
> Look here: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v281-balance.php#rw13
> 
> It is not so much more than in SE mode for low impedances, but in balanced mode it has less distortion.
> Looks like the current limiter.


 
  
 That sounds right. Violectric USA's website quotes max output = 2,800 mW @32 ohms, both channels driven (balanced output).
  
 Here's something interesting:

The Violectric feels like it has limitless power, balanced, into 32 ohm headphone (ZMF Omni/Ori, a planar that likes power). Even at the lowest possible gain setting, I can't get the volume pot near 12 o'clock w/o going deaf [DAC is Audio GD NOS 19/RCA output, stated to be 2.5V, which is average/not excessive].
By comparison, the Audio GD SA-31SE amp (single-ended) outputs 10 mW @40 ohms (no spec given for output @32 ohms). That should feel/sound much bigger/stronger than the V281, but it doesn't. To me, the V281 sounds/acts more powerful. Sure there are differences in gain stages/settings available--but I'm using minimum gain w/both amps and the same DAC.
  
 (still trying to figure out the whole power specs thing w/headphones)


----------



## zhgutov

pharmaboy said:


> That sounds right. Violectric USA's website quotes max output = 2,800 mW @32 ohms, both channels driven (balanced output).
> 
> Here's something interesting:
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, I think this specs need some additional clarification.
  
 I suppose, 2800 mW @ 32 Ohm are specified by Violectric for each channel.
 And there is condition: THD+N < 0.1%. So, looks like this is true.
  
 But there are some things to consider.
 If you just have 0.1% THD with, for example, second and third harmonics, this may sound good.
 But if you have even small clipping you will not like such sound.
 So, 1300 mW looks like the real, usable power.
  
 On the other hand, this is already too much power.
 And if you look at the distortion figures, you will notice that this amp has very low distortion even at high power.
 So, this limit is not the limit in practice =)
 Probably this limitation is caused by the protection circuit.
  
 Another important thing is how low the distortion can be at the high output level.
 Look at this:

  
 THD under the load goes down to 0.0002%, which is DAC level.
 And the distortion for the complex signal looks similar.
 I can not find another amp with the similar properties.
  
 I think the reason why this amp is so good and transparent to the source is at least somewhere in this area.


----------



## Fegefeuer

it's why you gotta make sure your chain is up to the task
.
I recommend avoiding USB into DACs and going in either via a converter/reclocker into coax, from a CD transport into coax or building your own transport through Raspberry Pi. You might not want to put belief in this, but you might try it and then see for yourself. High end DACs profit as well and even more. Avoiding USB is now my fetish.


----------



## manpowre

emptymt said:


> I might actually get a balance XLR cable/adapter first before going into a store to try the v280/1.


 
 Smart move going for XLR4 and get used to the increased dynamics with XLR4 before going for a V281, as the XLR4 output of V281 vs the big jackplugs is a wow experience. 
  
 I do actually love to listen to the 1812 Overture though I chose the Moscow version with Valery Gergiev which has amazing soundquality of the recording with fireworks instead of the canons and it slams like crazy every time.
 When I listen to the track that is about 15 minutes long, I close my eyes as its amazing being transported to the orchestra standing straight in front of them. The brass section of the Moscow version is amazing, it really really makes a brawl, just the way I remember it when I played in orchestra 30 years ago as a lead trumpeist. The dynamics of V281 really gets this track to its full potential.


----------



## Pharmaboy

fegefeuer said:


> it's why you gotta make sure your chain is up to the task
> .
> I recommend avoiding USB into DACs and going in either via a converter/reclocker into coax, from a CD transport into coax or building your own transport through Raspberry Pi. You might not want to put belief in this, but you might try it and then see for yourself. High end DACs profit as well and even more. Avoiding USB is now my fetish.


 
  
 Your 2nd paragraph is pure truth...
  
 I started using an S/PDIF converter ~10 years ago and found that toslink (used briefly) then most of all, coax input to the DAC simply sounded better than USB. This held true across 3 different DACs. I should say that USB sounded marginally better on 1-2 DACs compared to on a 3rd, but coax always sounded better than USB. I've upgraded my converter to the Musical Fidelity V192 Link (soon to upgrade to Singxer SU-1); and coax cable to Oyaide R-510 (not cheap, but really fine-sounding). Nothing changed except that coax sounds even better--more relaxed, smoother, less digital.
  
 When I got my Audio GD NOS 19 DAC, I went through the usual Audio GD driver-tango (can't find it on AGD website...where's the GD driver?...found it on Amenero website...installed...works OK). Then I connected the Oyaide cable and switched from USB to Coax (these DACs let you switch inputs from front-panel). Well, OK--coax wins once again.
  
 Interesting side-note about the V281 vs my NOS 19:

I'd read that non-oversampling R2 D DACs aren't for everyone...treble is restrained, if not rolled off; bass is "wetter," more rounded, etc (sometimes at cost of ultimate extension), blah-blah-blah.
It's all true--sort of/maybe/a little bit--but once this DAC burned in (took forever...>400 hrs!), I no longer cared because it sounded so natural & organic.
BUT--the V281, which IMHO is the audio equivalent of "The Hammer of Thor" (it brings immense power/finesse to every situation) may be showing me, for the first time, how the NOS 19 actually sounds, both through headphones & powered speakers + sub. That is to say, I've tried over 5 HP amps, 4 of which were also pre-amps, and the V281 is the first one that allowed me to hear that either my particular powered monitors (Swan M200 MKIII's) or my NOS 19 is somewhat muted on the very top. I'm highly averse to elevated treble, so "somewhat muted on the very top" is hardly a problem for me. But it wasn't until I used the V281 that I could perceive that.
On the other hand, the entire bass spectrum, up through lower midrange, is state-of-the-art through the V281 (HP amp & preamp functions). I've never heard such deep, impactful, powerful bass on my desktop.
  
 The V281 is a continuing source of amazement to me...I'm not even close to "taking its full measure."


----------



## mulder01

emptymt said:


> alright, thx man.
> I may need to call them first to see if they have an xlr terminated Z1R cable so that I can try it on in balanced mode.



 


Well, I am pretty sure they don't have the v281 anymore - it looks like they are phasing out Violectric. But I doubt it matters - every time I've gone into a hifi shop with a solid idea in my head of what I want, but just have the intention of having a quick listen before I buy, I have ended up walking out of there with something I never expected, and feeling glad I didn't buy what I was going to.

I'm not saying not to get a v281, but if you can listen to a bunch of amps, you can be 100% sure you've bought the one that suits your situation best.


----------



## emptymt

thx for all the help people.
 I'm gonna get XLR cable first and use the balance on the LC first before I decide if I really need to upgrade to v280/1.
  
 gotta stop spending money, LOL.


----------



## manpowre

It seems that 2017 will get some products that is going after the Amp need for heavy-to-drive headphones like LCD4, Abyss, etc.. The Amp Cavali Liquid Gold. What interest me vs the V281 is that if a IEM is plugged in to the amp, it hits the noise floor. I tried this on my V281 and didnt hear the noise floor. I guess this is because there is 2 amps missing from the big jackplug on V281 that helps for easyer to drive headphones.
  
 Offcourse I would love to review and hear the Cavali Liquid Gold. For 6500 dollars ? Im keeping my V281.


----------



## Arniesb

manpowre said:


> It seems that 2017 will get some products that is going after the Amp need for heavy-to-drive headphones like LCD4, Abyss, etc.. The Amp Cavali Liquid Gold. What interest me vs the V281 is that if a IEM is plugged in to the amp, it hits the noise floor. I tried this on my V281 and didnt hear the noise floor. I guess this is because there is 2 amps missing from the big jackplug on V281 that helps for easyer to drive headphones.
> 
> Offcourse I would love to review and hear the Cavali Liquid Gold. For 6500 dollars ? Im keeping my V281.


Cavali brand is super overpriced in my opinion. They offer nothing more than V281 or head amp gsx 2 solid state from what i read.


----------



## manpowre

arniesb said:


> Cavali brand is super overpriced in my opinion. They offer nothing more than V281 or head amp gsx 2 solid state from what i read.


 
 totally agree with that statement.


----------



## Pharmaboy

manpowre said:


> totally agree with that statement.


 
  
 I don't really agree. Then again, I only know part of the Cavalli vs Violectric story.
  
 I"m running a brand new, fully burned-in Liquid Carbon vs a used/mint condition V281. I can hear each balanced via ZMF Ori, or SE through other HPs.
  
 I had no expectations for the LC. It's small, runs hot, doesn't look like a big-league amp, especially viewed side-by-side with the V281 (like comparing a skinny 12-hr old to Superman).
  
 But...reality is surprising. The LC sounds HUGE; what I hear from it in no way matches its appearance. It has way more power than the Ori needs (not all amps do). But this is about more than just gain. What the LC does with its power is very pleasing sonically. I'm still getting to know this little amp. Just heard it for a few minutes on a real endgame amp (ZMF Eikon), and it sounds crazy/good. Big, somewhat warm, w/a ton of soundstaging. And the bass is the biggest surprise--it's right up there w/the V281 in depth, impact, and overall bass presentation (I never saw that coming).
  
 By contrast, the V281 really is Superman--endless confidence, power, black background, effortless authority top-to-bottom, really state-of-the-art bass (quanity/quality/impact). I'm crazy about the V281; it sounds like it looks...big, authoritative, friendly, not at all oppressive.
  
 I suppose the more rational comparison would be betw the V281 (which retails for ~$2,900) with one of the higher/more expensive Cavalli models. I'm just not able to do that comp, sadly.


----------



## Arniesb

pharmaboy said:


> I don't really agree. Then again, I only know part of the Cavalli vs Violectric story.
> 
> I"m running a brand new, fully burned-in Liquid Carbon vs a used/mint condition V281. I can hear each balanced via ZMF Ori, or SE through other HPs.
> 
> ...


Liquid Carbon is exception like Chord mojo is.


----------



## project86

fegefeuer said:


> it's why you gotta make sure your chain is up to the task
> .
> I recommend avoiding USB into DACs and going in either via a converter/reclocker into coax, from a CD transport into coax or building your own transport through Raspberry Pi. You might not want to put belief in this, but you might try it and then see for yourself. High end DACs profit as well and even more. Avoiding USB is now my fetish.


 
  
 In my experience, it really depends on the devices in question. After having many dozens of DACs and streamers and transports etc roll through my system over the last couple years... I really have no solid conclusions to draw on this topic. There are some generalities though, but unfortunately they don't line up with any single approach.
  
 The one constant I have found is that dedicated devices seem to outperform the PC/MacBook approach every time. My expensive custom built silent PC (not customized for audio, just general use) is easily bettered by the little $450 SOtM sMS-200, and that's before any linear PSU tweaks are added. Even the affordable Sonicorbiter SE is better than my PC, and my MacBook Pro as well. 
  
 My only advise is to try things for yourself and don't be afraid of any one implementation just because it is theoretically inferior. USB can sound amazing. So can coax SPDIF and even humble Toslink in some cases. It all comes down the implementation and, to some degree, the elusive "synergy". I hate that word, but there it is. 
  


arniesb said:


> Cavali brand is super overpriced in my opinion. They offer nothing more than V281 or head amp gsx 2 solid state from what i read.


 
  
 I probably should keep quiet on this, but I totally agree as well, based on personal experience.


----------



## novicez1

project86 said:


> The one constant I have found is that dedicated devices seem to outperform the PC/MacBook approach every time. My expensive custom built silent PC (not customized for audio, just general use) is easily bettered by the little $450 SOtM sMS-200, and that's before any linear PSU tweaks are added. Even the affordable Sonicorbiter SE is better than my PC, and my MacBook Pro as well.


 
  
 In what instance though? Lower noise floor? Different Tonality?


----------



## Fegefeuer

project86 said:


> In my experience, it really depends on the devices in question. After having many dozens of DACs and streamers and transports etc roll through my system over the last couple years... I really have no solid conclusions to draw on this topic. There are some generalities though, but unfortunately they don't line up with any single approach.
> 
> The one constant I have found is that dedicated devices seem to outperform the PC/MacBook approach every time. My expensive custom built silent PC (not customized for audio, just general use) is easily bettered by the little $450 SOtM sMS-200, and that's before any linear PSU tweaks are added. Even the affordable Sonicorbiter SE is better than my PC, and my MacBook Pro as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 well, I guess with PCs the C-states and tons of circuits, fluctuating load variances create more noise than in a tiny device like the SOtM. 
  
 For me as a PC user direct USB never reached coax levels even when the device was the only USB device hanging on the controller with stable 5V. No dropouts, no noise, no artefacts, nothing. Simply inferior in sound. Edgy, less refined in the highs, slightly fuzzy imaging and bass looser. Not only with this DAC but my former D2 as well. 
  
 The irony is that I'm still on the USB port but using a dedicated USB/SPDIF-Converter with its own PSU and it turned out to be noticably better. Blacker background, finally the coarsy highs are gone, the slight midbass accentuation of the DAC now hits hard like a giant's mace. Everything's much more in control and cleaner, the ceiling/limits of the DAC is now clear. 
  
 So far the only upgrade I'm longing for is a DAC that plays in the league of the V281.


----------



## manpowre

fegefeuer said:


> well, I guess with PCs the C-states and tons of circuits, fluctuating load variances create more noise than in a tiny device like the SOtM.
> 
> For me as a PC user direct USB never reached coax levels even when the device was the only USB device hanging on the controller with stable 5V. No dropouts, no noise, no artefacts, nothing. Simply inferior in sound. Edgy, less refined in the highs, slightly fuzzy imaging and bass looser. Not only with this DAC but my former D2 as well.
> 
> ...


 
 Have you heard Schiit Yggdrasil ? Alot of TOTL HP owners use this DAC and praises it for its damn accuracy for live instruments and drums!


----------



## Fegefeuer

yes, I've heard it. It's a damn good DAC but it's a bit too expensive for me and I'm not a friend of always on devices - which is a must for the Yggy. Other than that I'd have owned one by now.


----------



## Pharmaboy

fegefeuer said:


> well, I guess with PCs the C-states and tons of circuits, fluctuating load variances create more noise than in a tiny device like the SOtM.
> 
> For me as a PC user direct USB never reached coax levels even when the device was the only USB device hanging on the controller with stable 5V. No dropouts, no noise, no artefacts, nothing. Simply inferior in sound. Edgy, less refined in the highs, slightly fuzzy imaging and bass looser. Not only with this DAC but my former D2 as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have an Audio GD NOS 19 (true non-oversampling version of DAC-19)--and IMO it plays extremely well with the V281. Listening to the combo now.
  
 I'm told NOS DACs are not for everyone. Apparently I'm the someone they_ are_ for...love this sound, completely un-DAC like. It's as non-digital as digital gets.
  
 I'm on the hunt for a new or used DAC-19, motivated by long-time curiosity about its sound (much praised on Head-Fi) as well as awareness this model's run is just about over @Audio GD (replaced by the new "Singlarity" R2 R DAC).
  
 And yes, USB straight from the PC sounds deficient in subtle ways to me. For past 10 yrs I've had S/PDIF devices outputting coax to the DAC. And no matter which DAC I did it with, coax routinely sounded fuller, more open, slightly warmer, and altogether less strained than USB straight in. Upgrading the coax cable from BJ to Oyaide DR-510 was totally worth the cost--good coax sound got better. Since I have no high-rez files and like the sound of coax so much, I have no incentive to play w/USB from the S/PDF. BTW, I have a USB Regen on the input side of the S/PDIF converter. I can't hear any difference from its presence (not every tweak or upgrade is audible).


----------



## zhgutov

Well, my two cents about digital inputs. I have two DACs: Violectric V800 and TEAC UD-501.
  
 TEAC sounds better via USB. The quality of the sound via coax/toslink depends on the source. Even with upsampling which should remove jitter!
  
 On the other hand, V800 does not depend on the source or cable via coax/toslink in "Best"/upsampling mode.
 I can not compare this with USB. I removed this PCB because TENOR implementation was buggy/unstable.
  
 So, according to this, I can only support @project86, saying you need to check how it actually works in your case, with your equipment.
 But I don't support the idea, what PC or Mac as a source sound worse. I think it depends on implementation.


----------



## MattRG

pharmaboy said:


> I have an Audio GD NOS 19 (true non-oversampling version of DAC-19)--and IMO it plays extremely well with the V281. Listening to the combo now.
> 
> I'm told NOS DACs are not for everyone. Apparently I'm the someone they_ are_ for...love this sound, completely un-DAC like. It's as non-digital as digital gets.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am a fellow NOS DAC fan.  I purchased a Metrum Musette earlier in the year and I absolutely love it.  I have an ESI Juli@ pci-x sound card that has an RCA S/PDIF connection via breakout cable and it is pairs nicely with the Musette (and also worked well with the Mimby I owned before it).


----------



## novicez1

project86 said:


> The one constant I have found is that dedicated devices seem to outperform the PC/MacBook approach every time. My expensive custom built silent PC (not customized for audio, just general use) is easily bettered by the little $450 SOtM sMS-200, and that's before any linear PSU tweaks are added. Even the affordable Sonicorbiter SE is better than my PC, and my MacBook Pro as well.


 
  
 I think this is much more evident on heavily overclocked systems.


----------



## project86

novicez1 said:


> In what instance though? Lower noise floor? Different Tonality?


 
  
 Yes to both, along with superior treble reproduction and imaging/soundstage. It's not absolutely night and day... but I've heard bigger differences going fro basic laptop to dedicated server than I have going from good DAC to great DAC. Obviously depending on the devices in question. 
  


novicez1 said:


> I think this is much more evident on heavily overclocked systems.


 
  
  
 That's probably true, but I find improvements even from standard systems as well.


----------



## armymanhaha

I only have a RCA output on my DAC (Marantz HD DAC1) and plan to send signal to the v281 via RCA only. I'm just curious if its really a big advantage if i switch to a DAC with XLR outputs.

I must note that my DAC is already tonally excellent so I am hesitant to lose this DAC just because its missing XLR outputs...


----------



## zhgutov

armymanhaha said:


> I only have a RCA output on my DAC (Marantz HD DAC1) and plan to send signal to the v281 via RCA only. I'm just curious if its really a big advantage if i switch to a DAC with XLR outputs.
> 
> I must note that my DAC is already tonally excellent so I am hesitant to lose this DAC just because its missing XLR outputs...



I don't think there is something wrong with that.
Just note what your signal will be converted to balanced to feed to 4 amplifiers inside V281.


----------



## ArthurPower

The V281 sounds nearly the same using the RCA or XLR inputs. If you're happy with your current DAC I see no need to change it.


----------



## armymanhaha (May 8, 2017)

Awesome thanks for the assurance. I just got my v281 and partnered it with the Marantz DAC. It truly is a great match.
*
Now onto the next question.* I have observed that the balance knob (?) on my unit is acting weird. If i twist the knob to the right, the right channel (either via HD800S or via amplified hifi speakers) does get louder as expected, and I hear the left channel a lot less. Now when I twist the knob to the left, its another story: the left channel does not get louder as much as the right channel did, and I do not hear the right channel losing much gain as well. Is this a defect on my unit?

I did reset the knob to its default position and checked for channel balance. It seems alright when everything is at default. Its just weird that twisting the knob to the left does not give me the expected resulting sound. Can somebody here try it on their v281 and let me know if it does anything different? Obviously I'd like to know how yours perform before I breathe onto somebody's neck down there at my local distributor's.

Addendum: I used different songs, as well as dual mono pink noise to establish a hypothesis.


----------



## zhgutov

armymanhaha said:


> Awesome thanks for the assurance. I just got my v281 and partnered it with the Marantz DAC. It truly is a great match.
> *
> Now onto the next question.* I have observed that the balance knob (?) on my unit is acting weird. If i twist the knob to the right, the right channel (either via HD800S or via amplified hifi speakers) does get louder as expected, and I hear the left channel a lot less. Now when I twist the knob to the left, its another story: the left channel does not get louder as much as the right channel did, and I do not hear the right channel losing much gain as well. Is this a defect on my unit?
> 
> ...



This is by design. The balance control changes the level for right channel only to not affect crosstalk.


----------



## armymanhaha

zhgutov said:


> This is by design. The balance control changes the level for right channel only to not affect crosstalk.



If what you said is true, then it seems like it's a weird implementation don't you think? I got so used to Integrated amplifiers doing it correctly, I cant help but think that Violectric's decision to do that is quite pointless. Why put it there if only the right channel is going to follow suit?


----------



## thomascrown

armymanhaha said:


> If what you said is true...


V281 manual, page 17: 

"BALANCE CONTROL is provided to compensate moderate level differences between left and right channel. These may root in the recorded material itself, noticeable differences between left and right headphone system, or differences in the user’s individual hearing. All of the above can be carefully compensated. The balance control offers a precise center detent in case no adjustment is necessary. In order not to impair the V281’s perfect crosstalk specs, it takes effect on the right channel only"


----------



## armymanhaha

Thanks for the spoon-feed. You just saved me a trip to the distributor.


----------



## 13713

ArthurPower said:


> The V281 sounds nearly the same using the RCA or XLR inputs. If you're happy with your current DAC I see no need to change it.



There is no need to go in and start changing things up if it works. I agree with ArthurPower.


----------



## watchdog507

13713 said:


> There is no need to go in and start changing things up if it works. I agree with ArthurPower.


My Mytek Brooklyn has an XLR and and a Single Ended out. I run the XLR to my WA5-LE and the single ended to my V281.  I'm really amazed at the resolution and dynamics.  I've used both in the V281 and I can't hear a world of difference if any.


----------



## armymanhaha

Thoroughly impressed by this unit. I also use it as a preamp to a NAD 375 (power amp mode) connected to a Wharfedale Jade 5, and everything sounds more 'correct'. I am an audiophile that has no care for audio poetry but the V281 outperformed the NAD class A built-in preamp in transparency and ease of flow. It made me feel like as if I am using a Hegel H160. I am seriously thinking of getting a separate power amp in the near future and utilize the V281 as a preamp.

This brings me to the question: is it possible to DIY a remote control for the V281? I will just say that it is impossible to send the amp to Germany for them to install the a new pot.


----------



## zhgutov

armymanhaha said:


> Thoroughly impressed by this unit. I also use it as a preamp to a NAD 375 (power amp mode) connected to a Wharfedale Jade 5, and everything sounds more 'correct'. I am an audiophile that has no care for audio poetry but the V281 outperformed the NAD class A built-in preamp in transparency and ease of flow. It made me feel like as if I am using a Hegel H160. I am seriously thinking of getting a separate power amp in the near future and utilize the V281 as a preamp.
> 
> This brings me to the question: is it possible to DIY a remote control for the V281? I will just say that it is impossible to send the amp to Germany for them to install the a new pot.



Maybe it is possible to buy upgrade kit with instructions? Have you asked this @ violectric?


----------



## watchdog507 (May 15, 2017)

armymanhaha said:


> Thoroughly impressed by this unit. I also use it as a preamp to a NAD 375 (power amp mode) connected to a Wharfedale Jade 5, and everything sounds more 'correct'. I am an audiophile that has no care for audio poetry but the V281 outperformed the NAD class A built-in preamp in transparency and ease of flow. It made me feel like as if I am using a Hegel H160. I am seriously thinking of getting a separate power amp in the near future and utilize the V281 as a preamp.
> 
> This brings me to the question: is it possible to DIY a remote control for the V281? I will just say that it is impossible to send the amp to Germany for them to install the a new pot.



I have the remote and stepped attenuator on mine.  I don't think that it's a field serviceable modification.  The best you could is possibly do is to have a US service centre do the conversion.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I have the 128-stepped pot (a big upgrade from the standard, stepped pot) + remote control. 

What you suggest about DIY remote is kind of logic trap:

If you really know what you're doing in electronics, you might be able to open the case of the V281 and identify certain on/off functions that might be controllable by DIY remote (a lot of work)

But the one function that matters most to everybody--control of volume--is pretty complicated to control via remote. Violectric does it by installing a small electrical motor that turns the big pot, and that motor is remote-controlled.
This really isn't the kind of thing most people wouldn't attempt on a DIY basis.


----------



## Kramer01

@Pharmaboy 
"I have the 128-stepped pot (a big upgrade from the standard, stepped pot) + remote control." What sort of improvements does it offer??


----------



## Pharmaboy

Well, I've never heard the stock V281, so not sure if there are any sonic differences. I wouldn't expect so...they use really excellent stepped ALPS pots (the non-motorized kind) throughout the Violectric & Lake People lines. The one in my Lake People G109-A is just about as good as a stepped pot gets IMO sonically (ie, apart from the "number of steps" issue).

The improvements w/the 128-step, motorized/remote-controlled stepped pot come down to functionality:

There are finally "enough steps" so that even this behemoth of a power-amp can be controlled when feeding low-impedance, efficient headphones. I always manage to "find the right step," which is would be more difficult if the stock 41-step pot was there (or 43-step? I forget the spec).
And of course, remote control is very user-friendly in the sense that you can be 2-3 feet away and still get it done.
The upgrade pot also makes the preamp function of the V281 (insanely good IMO, in terms of bass, dynamics, and "jump factor") even more useable/useful. It's just easier to find the right step for volume, making the V281 easier to control even on low-impedance/efficient headhones.
But it's not a perfect world. IMO, the best volume control I've ever encountered is that on the Audio GD SA-31SE, another power amp that basically sounds nothing quite like the V281 and is not quite in its league. The SA-31SE, also remote-controllable, uses 100, relay-controlled steps to moderate volume. Instead of a trad volume knob, this unit uses an UP and DOWN button (on the display & on the remote) that dials in volume, up or down, 1 step at a time, There is also some level of PLC-control of these relays, in the sense that more "steps" are allocated between zero and medium-low volume, vs fewer to medium-to-loud (up to "deafness") volumes. That turns out to be very well chosen, since I rarely get above "55" even for a planar HP on lowest gain.

When I first got the SA-31SE, I hated this volume system, thought it insane you can't just press continuously on UP or DOWN button to make the volume rapidly ramp up or down. You have to go 1 step at a time (meaning you must press the button repeatedly to turn it way up or down). But I soon came to really appreciate this system. I can ultra-precisely "dial in" any volume, and because the # of steps is displayed on the alphanumeric, front-panel display, I know from experience what volume "works" for any given situation.

The V281 isn't quite as controllable, and there's no apparent logic/loading of steps happening in this pot. Even w/discrete taps on the up/down volume rocker-switch, it's rather easy to "jump steps." And w/headphones in particular, I sometimes hear little anomalies, such as a lower step sounding louder than a higher one (briefly). For all I know, this pot is dirty & needs attention (I bought it used)--so don't put a lot of faith in the comments in this paragraph.

*Net/net:* I highly recommend the upgrade pot for the V281 & wouldn't want to do without it. The V281 s an extremely powerful and dynamic amp; it's way too easy to hurt yourself (on headphones or speakers) by thoughtless over-pressing of that rocker. But if you keep you wits about you, that power is very controllable w/128 steps at your fingertips.

PS: I use the V281 at the lowest gain setting & it's still so powerful. I never opened it up to check "pre-gain" (internal jumpers that set gain differently from the external gain settings). Maybe mine is at a higher gain that I realize. Either way, this thing is incredibly powerful and should be treated with respect.


----------



## Pharmaboy

PS-2: another quirk of the very large volume pot dial on the V281 (which I believe is the same for stock volume pot vs 128-step upgrade pot) is that you literally can't see what the current volume setting is. There's an indented hashmark in dial, but it's black on black & really only useful if you're physically turning the dial (which I never do--preferring to use the remote). I got around this by pasting a thin piece of gummed paper (cut from an address level) across the side-to-front of the dial, over where that indented hashmark is. This helps incredibly well to "see the volume" setting.


----------



## sanjeewasam

Anybody interested in V281 Black. Less than 1 year old and in as new condition.  Comes with all that was included in the box and with invoice. Selling because I no longer in to this hobby with other priorities. Excellent price 

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/violectric-audio-v281-balanced-headphone-amplifier.852340/


----------



## Svatopluk (Jun 11, 2017)

Pharmaboy said:


> PS-2: another quirk of the very large volume pot dial on the V281 (which I believe is the same for stock volume pot vs 128-step upgrade pot) is that you literally can't see what the current volume setting is. There's an indented hashmark in dial, but it's black on black & really only useful if you're physically turning the dial (which I never do--preferring to use the remote). I got around this by pasting a thin piece of gummed paper (cut from an address level) across the side-to-front of the dial, over where that indented hashmark is. This helps incredibly well to "see the volume" setting.





Pharmaboy said:


> PS-2: another quirk of the very large volume pot dial on the V281 (which I believe is the same for stock volume pot vs 128-step upgrade pot) is that you literally can't see what the current volume setting is. There's an indented hashmark in dial, but it's black on black & really only useful if you're physically turning the dial (which I never do--preferring to use the remote). I got around this by pasting a thin piece of gummed paper (cut from an address level) across the side-to-front of the dial, over where that indented hashmark is. This helps incredibly well to "see the volume" setting.


When you get my age, being able to see the mark on any volume knob is a problem. One trick I've been using is to cut a very thin piece of painters masking tape and put it over the marker on the knob. Unlike standard masking tape, the painters grade tape leaves no residue even after years of being stuck on something.

If you use the blue stuff it will kind of match the Violectric power on indicator light.


----------



## Svatopluk

Svatopluk said:


> When you get my age, being able to see the mark on any volume knob is a problem. One trick I've been using is to cut a very thin piece of painters masking tape and put it over the marker on the knob. Unlike standard masking tape, the painters grade tape leaves no residue even after years of being stuck on something.
> 
> If you use the blue stuff it will kind of match the Violectric power on indicator light.


----------



## Pharmaboy

With age comes wisdom...

Necessity is the mother of invention...

(etc)

I like those big puffy footers you put under the unit.


----------



## Svatopluk

The big puffy footers are actually furniture sliders from Walmart. Nine bucks for a pack of sixteen.


----------



## Asteron70

This is a rather long thread!
I tried my best to search & find comparisons... but have yet to find impressions that directly compares the v281 against the Headamp GSX MkII and the SimAudio Moon 430HA (though I note one poster who traded away a 430HA for a v281 is staunchly defensive of that decision).
Would appreciate any suggestions/views, as I am considering trading in my v281 for one of these two other amps. I use a HD800S and Utopia at the moment, but at some point in the future would like to add an Audeze or Abyss to the collection...
Also, if there are other solid state amps I should be considering, would be great to know


----------



## fixated

Asteron70 said:


> This is a rather long thread!
> I tried my best to search & find comparisons... but have yet to find impressions that directly compares the v281 against the Headamp GSX MkII and the SimAudio Moon 430HA (though I note one poster who traded away a 430HA for a v281 is staunchly defensive of that decision).
> Would appreciate any suggestions/views, as I am considering trading in my v281 for one of these two other amps. I use a HD800S and Utopia at the moment, but at some point in the future would like to add an Audeze or Abyss to the collection...
> Also, if there are other solid state amps I should be considering, would be great to know



I'm surprised you didn't find any posts about the v281 vs the 430HA as there was a large amount of posts about them, but I do believe @TonyNewman has made a couple of posts about the V281 vs 430HA and how much he prefered the V281 over the 430HA. Here's an example post:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/v...-durch-balanced.705318/page-121#post-12488990

You'll find more if you do a quick search at the search bar at the upper right


----------



## mulder01

Why do you want to get rid of your 281?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Well, I just learned my V281 can do some tricks I was unaware of. 

*Background:* I have a complicated desktop system, and gain matching has been a challenge. Both DACs that I use, in alternating fashion, have dual RCA output pairs (Audio GD NOS 19; and AGD DAC-19). This allows me to run one RCA output pair to a headphone amp/preamp (I have 3), usually the Audio GD SA-31SE or the V281; while the 2nd output pair connects to another HP amp or amp/preamp of interest to me (typically the Liquid Carbon). Whether the SA-31SE or V281 are doing preamp duty, the output RCA pair goes from it to an SVS SB-1000 sub, and from there, an RCA output pair comes off the high-pass crossover and goes to a unbalanced-to-balanced converter (Aphex Alpha 124A). From its , a pair of XLR-to-XLR cables finally connect to a pair of Yamaha HS7 powered monitors. 

At any given time, there are 3 independent volume gain setting available to me, since the amp/preamp has one; the 124A has one gain setting per channel; and each powered monitor has a rotary "sensitivity adjustment" (ie, pot).
Obviously I want to use the amp/preamp's volume pot to control system gain, assuming the other gain stages are set for best sound

(I know--confusing)

Anyway, the V281 has outstanding capabilities as a preamp--tons of I/O switching, independent on/off of line out vs headphone out, and that big, motorized, remote-controlled. 128-step volume pot--but from day-1 with this used V281, I found its gain to be uncomfortably high. Even w/gain setting optimized on the powered monitors & balanced-to-balanced converter, the V281 was just too strong. I ended up listening to low-volume music at ~7:30 o'clock on the dial; medium volume at ~9:00 o'clock on the dial; and really loud music at ~10 o'clock on the dial.

Like many volume pots, even the best stepped ones, the V281's pot doesn't operate as smoothly or in as linear a fashion at the extreme low end (~7:00 o'clock - 9 o'clock on the dial). Since that's where I am for most of my system listening, and also for all headphones except the power-hungry planar ZMF Ori...well, I wasn't getting good/consistent operation from the pot. Volume sometimes would "jump a step," then restore to the intended 1-step up or down level, etc.

I had read the manual and believed the gain settings to be a minimum. What to do? I contacted the extremely helpful Arthur at Violectric USA. I had purchased a Lake People G109-A from him last year and knew him to be great to deal with. Then again, I'd purchased the V281 used & wasn't sure how he would react. 

I needn't have worried. Arthur was a font of helpful information, as before. He advised me on minimum dip-switch settings on back of the unit; also on the internal dip-switches, if needed (you have to remove the case to get at those). I started on the back of the unit and found (surprise) gain was set at default position w/all 4 dip-switches "Off" -- translating to medium gain. I set each channel down by 14 dB, then did a bunch of listening. The v281 clearly had somewhat less overall system gain, but still more than I wanted.

I just opened the case & found those dip-switches, too, were set to default/medium gain. I set each down by 12 dB, and am listening now. BIG CHANGE! I can now listen with comfort up to ~12 o'clock on the dial, and my preferred low-level setting is ~9 o'clock on the dial, give or take 1 step.

Why do I go on and on about this? Because I'm realizing that the V281 has a truly INSANE degree of gain setting flexibility. I talked about "medium gain" being default, but in reality, you can set the V281's overall gain up or down by as little as 2 dB/channel (by combinations of internal + external dip-switch settings). I have it now set to -26 dB, and I could still go down 2 dB more if I changed 1 internal dip-switch setting. On the flip side, the overall gain can be increased to a similiar degree (max 28 db over "medium." That means the total gain setting range of this device is 54 dB. That is NUTS!!

(I had read the manual, and still didn't understant this epic gain flexibility).

It's just one of many adjustable/selectable features on this amazing device. And I haven't said a word about the sound in this post (hint: it's _extremely_ good). 

(another day in paradise w/the V281...)


----------



## 13713

The biggest night and day difference I found with my 281 was dropping the gain. Like you, I found the entire situation to be night and day difference with volume control. I sound like a complete fanboy but the amp really is quite brilliant.


----------



## Badas

Pharmaboy said:


> Well, I just learned my V281 can do some tricks I was unaware of.
> 
> *Background:* I have a complicated desktop system, and gain matching has been a challenge. Both DACs that I use, in alternating fashion, have dual RCA output pairs (Audio GD NOS 19; and AGD DAC-19). This allows me to run one RCA output pair to a headphone amp/preamp (I have 3), usually the Audio GD SA-31SE or the V281; while the 2nd output pair connects to another HP amp or amp/preamp of interest to me (typically the Liquid Carbon). Whether the SA-31SE or V281 are doing preamp duty, the output RCA pair goes from it to an SVS SB-1000 sub, and from there, an RCA output pair comes off the high-pass crossover and goes to a unbalanced-to-balanced converter (Aphex Alpha 124A). From its , a pair of XLR-to-XLR cables finally connect to a pair of Yamaha HS7 powered monitors.
> 
> ...



What internal dip switches???? Is there even more control? 

I'm on the lowest gain on the back switches and my volume is at 9'O'clock. 
I would like to lower the gain even more.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Badas said:


> What internal dip switches???? Is there even more control?
> 
> I'm on the lowest gain on the back switches and my volume is at 9'O'clock.
> I would like to lower the gain even more.



Yes, there definitely is more gain control--it's under the case. First get the manual, if you don't already have it.

http://violectric-usa.com/downloads

The download will start when you click the "*Violectric Audio HPA V281*" line.​
There are are 2 general tactics available to you, to further decrease gain on the V281

*External dip switches: *

Can I assume you have already flipped to "ON," the -12 dB dip-switch on each channel? That gives 12 dB less gain overall.

If yes, then also switch to "ON" the -6 dB switch (ie, result is that both -12 & -6 dB switches are now "ON"), the result is an additional -2 dB gain, for a total -14 dB reduction in gain.

*Internal dip switches:*

Per pg-31 of the manual, first unplug the power cable. I found it expedient to unplug all input/output cables, then relocate the V281 under a watchmaker's flourescent lamp w/4.5X diopter clear glass magnifier (very handy).
Then...
1. screw off both upper screws on the front panel
2. screw off both upper screws on the back panel.
3. unscrew both lower screws on the front panel by a few turns in order to tilt the front panel a bit
4. now lift the upper lid
5. make your personal jumper settings
6. reassemble the unit in reverse order​
Your "personal jumper settings" are made per the diagram on bottom of pg-33 ("GAIN ON THE LINE INPUT")
Again, you can start by switching to "ON" the dip-switch for -12 dB (that's what I did on the internal dip switches for each channel)
Or for absolute max gain, you could switch to "ON," both the -12 dB & -6 dB dip-switches for each channel. 

However, I recommend you start w/-12 dB on each channel for internal settings. You can always come back for more later.

I suppose there's such a thing as "too little gain"--but I haven't found it yet with the V281. This thing is a 2-stage rocket. It bristles with power...

My system is sufficiently complicated that it would be unfair to hold the V281 solely responsible for the system gain mismatches I've experienced--especially since switching to powered monitors recommended to be run in balanced mode only (Yamaha HS7's). Balanced operation typically is 6-12 dB higher output gain than unbalanced...that's at least part of my problem.

Still, for the first time, I'm now using the V281 for listening via the monitors, where my effective range (lowest typical volume to highest comfortable volume) is ~9 o'clock to ~12 o'clock on the volume pot. And that is a tremendous difference. In effect, I have twice the steps (out of the 128-stepped volume pot) to adjust volume with now.


----------



## Pharmaboy

13713 said:


> The biggest night and day difference I found with my 281 was dropping the gain. Like you, I found the entire situation to be night and day difference with volume control. I sound like a complete fanboy but the amp really is quite brilliant.



The V281 is one of 2 components that I feel I haven't even scratched the surface with (in terms of what they can really do), despite months of playing around with them. For example, while I've just dropped the gain by a total of 14 additional dB from where it had been, I've only listened for a couple hours on the monitors (it sounds great). But the decrease in gain will no doubt also affect headphones--tomorrow or the next day I'll check that out. If history is any guide, the far more personal and "up-close" quality of headphone listening may show me that lower gain really affects the sound in ways other than volume (hopefully beneficial ways). I wouldn't be surprised one bit if that's what I find.

And even with all that, I still haven't directly connected the XLR outputs of the V281 to the monitors. That would mean bypassing the sub--but the benefit would be hearing the monitors in their full glory, whatever they really can or cannot do, with less circuitry in between. 

I am a complete fanboy for Violectric. The Lake People G109-A remains my best, most natural and yet revealing single-ended amp (it's a killer amp). And now I'm playing around with the V281, which I previously stated is like having Superman on your desktop. It can do anything.

PS: the other component I'm not even close to figuring out yet is the ZMF Ori, a power-hungry, inefficient planar design that to me, sounds beautiful and quietly spectacular. It's also beautiful to look at (ormosia henryi wood). Every amp I use with these headphones makes them sound noticeably different. And they reproduce my beloved music/music genres as well as I could possibly hope for.


----------



## fixated

Pharmaboy said:


> Yes, there definitely is more gain control--it's under the case. First get the manual, if you don't already have it.
> 
> http://violectric-usa.com/downloads
> 
> ...



I never knew that there were internal switches inside the amp, although I've always know about the -14db gain trick which comes in handy when I want to listen to IEMs using the V281 (and yes I listen to IEMs since the V281 works wonderfully with them, even if it feels like overkill). But that being said, I don't think I would be touching the internal switches anytime soon, I'm not the type to mess around the inside of some electronics, don't wanna break anything! Thanks for the info though


----------



## Pharmaboy

lonerboy13 said:


> I never knew that there were internal switches inside the amp, although I've always know about the -14db gain trick which comes in handy when I want to listen to IEMs using the V281 (and yes I listen to IEMs since the V281 works wonderfully with them, even if it feels like overkill). But that being said, I don't think I would be touching the internal switches anytime soon, I'm not the type to mess around the inside of some electronics, don't wanna break anything! Thanks for the info though



well--all that stuff about the manual and following steps makes it sound difficult. But it's not hard at all to adjust the internal dip-switches. 

If you have a 2.5mm metric hex-wrench, it will take all of 5 minutes to drop the overall gain up to 14 additional dB. 

At least in my case, it made a big difference. My comfortable range of adjustment is now larger, and further up the range of the 128-step dial. Net/net: I have more steps to adjust, and the big system gain mismatch w/the V281 is >90% gone.

Can't get over how many adjustments and connection scenarios are possible with the V281.


----------



## sahmen

So with regard to dropping or increasing gain on the unit, what is the best approach to take with a difficult to drive pair of cans such as the Hifiman He-6 (Sensitivity - 83.5 db ; Impedance - 50 Ohms)?  I've always kept my v281 at unity gain, and it has performed adequately with many of my cans, but if some messing with the gain system can improve performance with the power-hungry He-6, I wouldn't mind trying it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> So with regard to dropping or increasing gain on the unit, what is the best approach to take with a difficult to drive pair of cans such as the Hifiman He-6 (Sensitivity - 83.5 db ; Impedance - 50 Ohms)?  I've always kept my v281 at unity gain, and it has performed adequately with many of my cans, but if some messing with the gain system can improve performance with the power-hungry He-6, I wouldn't mind trying it.



The HE-6 is legendary for being difficult to drive. Not sure if my experience with other headphones on the V281 will have much relevance to that one... 

How does the unity gain V281 do with the HE-6? Does the sound live up to your expectations? I guess what I'm asking (based on my own uniformly positive experiences w/the V281 on 3-4 headphones, including ZMF Ori [planar] & Eikon [300 ohm dynamic])--does the V281 do as much good for the sound of the HE-6 as it probably does for your other headphones?

Here is what I can tell you at this point:

Until yesterday my V281 was at unity gain, like yours.
That was clearly too much gain for the powered monitors; it also was too much for relatively efficient, low-impedance headphones like the Fidelio X2. They sounded wonderful on the V281 (sounding good is never the issue w/the V281). The real issue is I had to keep the volume pot very low in its range (ie, 7:30-9:00 o'clock on the dial). That meant I had relatively few steps available, and each step caused a relatively large/coarse change in volume.

My power-hungry planar (ZMF Ori), of course, played by different rules on the V281, like every other amp on hand. At unity gain I could run it comfortably between 9-10:30 on the dial, but pushing it up to 11:00 o'clock produced too-loud volume.
Yesterday I reduced the overall gain (via external & internal dip-switch settings) by 26 dB below unity gain. The effect on listening to the powered monitors at lower gain has been 100% good--better gain match across the system, more steps available to adjust volume, listening done at a higher portion of the dial, and no change in the basic sound of the V281 that I can detect.

Tomorrow I'll listen in depth to the Ori at the lower gain. My hope is the V281 will be in the 10:00-2:00 o'clock range for moderate-to-loud listening w/the Ori. I expect these headphones will sound at least as good w/the lower gain than they did at unity gain. As Arthur from Violectric USA put it, "The less resistance in the circuit the better. This goes for all volume controls" (ie, higher up on the volume pot dial is better). I doubt the sound would be noticeably less good at lower gain, and it may be a bit better. I'll report back w/whatever I hear. In my expeirence, headphones, way more than monitors, allow me to disciminate relatively small sonic differences.

Getting back to the HE-6...if they sound good at unity gain on the V281, you win--in the sense that plenty of other above-average SS designs are said to not really be up to driving it. I somehow doubt lower gain would benefit the HE-6 (though it's not impossible it would); and that higher gain would only help the HE-6. In fact, it's just the only headphone I can think of that might need above-unity gain on the V281.


----------



## sahmen

On Unity gain, the He-6 gets loud enough for me between the 11 o'clock and 12 o'clock mark on the volume dial, and I can't tolerate higher than that...  The sound is good in every respect, except that it seems to lack very slightly in bass impact/extension as compared to the He-6 driven by my Bryston 2b-LP, and hooked up with speaker taps.  I am talking about a difference that is very slight, without being entirely inaudible, and not implying that the He-6's bass on the v281 is "thin" or anything like that. 

The Bryston 2b LP is a 60 wpc into 8 ohms speaker amp, of course, so there is that. It is only in relation to the bass impact/extension of the He-6 when hooked to the Bryston, that  it sounds very slightly less impactful on the V281.  In fact, if I didn't know about the Bryston experience, I would most likely find nothing to complain about regarding the way the v281 handles the He-6, especially since the v281 also drives all my other cans (incl. the HD600, Hd700, HD 800, the Hifiman He-k, and the He-500) very well without giving me the impression that anything is missing.  

In fact I could probably even resolve the minor bass impact issue of the He-6 with some EQing, but I thought I should investigate the gain change solution first.  With that being said, I am not sure what good upping the gain on the v281 will do in this case though, since the v281's power seems more than adequate when it comes to getting the He-6 to play loudly... At unity gain, 12 O'clock on the volume dial begins to sound much too loud for me with the He-6...With all of my other cans, the dial does not go beyond the 10 O'clock mark...  In short, I do enjoy my v281 a lot, when all is said and done, but I am curious about what, if anything, the gain-adjustment thing can do for the He-6.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> On Unity gain, the He-6 gets loud enough for me between the 11 o'clock and 12 o'clock mark on the volume dial, and I can't tolerate higher than that...  The sound is good in every respect, except that it seems to lack very slightly in bass impact/extension as compared to the He-6 driven by my Bryston 2b-LP, and hooked up with speaker taps.  I am talking about a difference that is very slight, without being entirely inaudible, and not implying that the He-6's bass on the v281 is "thin" or anything like that.
> 
> The Bryston 2b LP is a 60 wpc into 8 ohms speaker amp, of course, so there is that. It is only in relation to the bass impact/extension of the He-6 when hooked to the Bryston, that  it sounds very slightly less impactful on the V281.  In fact, if I didn't know about the Bryston experience, I would most likely find nothing to complain about regarding the way the v281 handles the He-6, especially since the v281 also drives all my other cans (incl. the HD600, Hd700, HD 800, the Hifiman He-k, and the He-500) very well without giving me the impression that anything is missing.
> 
> In fact I could probably even resolve the minor bass impact issue of the He-6 with some EQing, but I thought I should investigate the gain change solution first.  With that being said, I am not sure what good upping the gain on the v281 will do in this case though, since the v281's power seems more than adequate when it comes to getting the He-6 to play loudly... At unity gain, 12 O'clock on the volume dial begins to sound much too loud for me with the He-6...With all of my other cans, the dial does not go beyond the 10 O'clock mark...  In short, I do enjoy my v281 a lot, when all is said and done, but I am curious about what, if anything, the gain-adjustment thing can do for the He-6.



By dropping the gain on your V281, as I have done on mine, the main effect would be that you would be running the HE-6 in (I would guess) the 12:00-2:00 o'clock area of the dial. I suppose this could theoretically affect the sound, as the resistors used at each step in that range are lower value than in the 10:00-12:00 o'clock range. 

Clearly the V281 has more than enough power to do this for you. I'd be interested to learn if you could hear any difference...


----------



## S Crowther

sahmen said:


> On Unity gain, the He-6 gets loud enough for me between the 11 o'clock and 12 o'clock mark on the volume dial, and I can't tolerate higher than that...  The sound is good in every respect, except that it seems to lack very slightly in bass impact/extension as compared to the He-6 driven by my Bryston 2b-LP, and hooked up with speaker taps.  I am talking about a difference that is very slight, without being entirely inaudible, and not implying that the He-6's bass on the v281 is "thin" or anything like that.
> 
> The Bryston 2b LP is a 60 wpc into 8 ohms speaker amp, of course, so there is that. It is only in relation to the bass impact/extension of the He-6 when hooked to the Bryston, that  it sounds very slightly less impactful on the V281.  In fact, if I didn't know about the Bryston experience, I would most likely find nothing to complain about regarding the way the v281 handles the He-6, especially since the v281 also drives all my other cans (incl. the HD600, Hd700, HD 800, the Hifiman He-k, and the He-500) very well without giving me the impression that anything is missing.
> 
> In fact I could probably even resolve the minor bass impact issue of the He-6 with some EQing, but I thought I should investigate the gain change solution first.  With that being said, I am not sure what good upping the gain on the v281 will do in this case though, since the v281's power seems more than adequate when it comes to getting the He-6 to play loudly... At unity gain, 12 O'clock on the volume dial begins to sound much too loud for me with the He-6...With all of my other cans, the dial does not go beyond the 10 O'clock mark...  In short, I do enjoy my v281 a lot, when all is said and done, but I am curious about what, if anything, the gain-adjustment thing can do for the He-6.


It has often been noted that changing the gain on the V281 changes the SQ slightly also. I think it was suggested due to change in impedance.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Well, last night I listened to the lower-gain V281 through an efficient, low impedance dynamic HP (Yenona Adapter-Free DJ Headphone); and for most of that time through the ZMF Ori (inefficient planar design). 

They both sounded really good, as good I ever recall. I really didn't notice a change in SQ, though. Beyond the volume pot operating at a different range at lower gain, I couldn't reliably say the sound was any different.

As for V281's output impedance changing at at low gain, I hadn't heard that. Does output imedance go up at lower gain, or down?

This raises the related issue of how certain headphones respond to somewhat higher output impedance in HP amps. I've read in various HF threads that the Ori is not particularly sensitive to an amps's output impedance. It is said, however that ZMF's 2 new dynamic designs, Eikon and Atticus, are somewhat sensitive to this, particularly the Atticus, which reported "opens up comsideraby in midrange presence/dynamics when output impedance is over ~30 ohms.  The Atticus was the topic of an experiment by several technically adept Head-Fi'ers to insert resisters  of variouis values in an adapter (1/4" output of amp to 1/4" headphone jack). Results from that haven't been reported yet.

Either way, the Atticus is said to sound its best w/OTL tube amps, which usually have higher output impedance than SS designs.


----------



## Badas

Pharmaboy said:


> Yes, there definitely is more gain control--it's under the case. First get the manual, if you don't already have it.
> 
> http://violectric-usa.com/downloads
> 
> ...



While listening to my tube amp this morning I took the lid off my V281 and lowered the gain using the internal dip switches as suggested.
Thanks for the info. 

I had to use -12 and -6 on the internal and external switches. It doesn't really make much difference. 
I've got the volume position from about 9.30 to 11.00 O'clock position on my Ether Flows. Night Hawks
Are at about 9.00 O'clock. 

I think my DAC (Yggy) overdrives the amp inputs. My last DAC (Auralic Vega) was excellent as you could control the volume so it 
could be set to allow good volume control on the amps.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Badas said:


> While listening to my tube amp this morning I took the lid off my V281 and lowered the gain using the internal dip switches as suggested.
> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I had to use -12 and -6 on the internal and external switches. It doesn't really make much difference.
> ...



You know, I'm glad you mentioned your DAC. That's something I've been meaning to comment on in posts above, but forgot.

There is quite a variation in the voltage coming out of DACs. Most of them seem to fall in the 2.0v range (+/- .1 volt). For example, the DAC I ran up to ~1 year ago, the Peachtree Audio DAC iTx, has a rated output of 1.9v. And that was pretty much what I was used to in my desktop system, where the volume pot on my Swan M200 MKIIIs could be run at 90-100%, and system volume would be controlled by a passive volume controller or 1 of several headphone amps/preamps on hand. Whatever device I used as a system preamp, the volume pot settings were comparable: a touch below 9 o'clock on the dial for low-volume classical streaming; all the way up to ~12:00 o'clock for loud stuff. And when listening to headphones, the volume of whatever amp I used acted predictably, similar to the same volume pot controlled speakers (ie, lower range for efficient/sealed HPs, higher for ZMF Ori/inefficient planar design).

Then I got the Audio GD NOS 19, which outputs 2.5v (more than 25% more voltage than the DAC iTx), and those system volume controls inched up somewhat. But still not to a point where I felt there was a real gain mismatch in the system...ie, I wasn't at or near the bottom-most gain setting w/any amp/preamp.

But when I got the V281, all that changed. It had way too much gain, forcing me into the bottom-most portion of its volume control, both for system (powered monitors) and headphones. That troubled me, since the V281 is the best amp/preamp I have.

Thankfully, dropping the V281's gain by  26 dB has pretty much restored stability & balance to my system.

I can't find the line-out voltage for either the Vega nor the Yggy. But you're quite right that the Vega's onboard pot could moderate gain for you. 

The only other solution I can think of (was going to try this in my system 'til I managed to drop the gain on the V281) is to pick up a good quality passive volume controller (w/or w/o additional inputs/outputs) and put that in line between Yggy & your V281. Yes, it's an additional device (albeit passive) + 1 set of interconnects. But that would create way more flexibility in adjusting system (or just headphone out) gain.


----------



## Badas

Pharmaboy said:


> You know, I'm glad you mentioned your DAC. That's something I've been meaning to comment on in posts above, but forgot.
> 
> There is quite a variation in the voltage coming out of DACs. Most of them seem to fall in the 2.0v range (+/- .1 volt). For example, the DAC I ran up to ~1 year ago, the Peachtree Audio DAC iTx, has a rated output of 1.9v. And that was pretty much what I was used to in my desktop system, where the volume pot on my Swan M200 MKIIIs could be run at 90-100%, and system volume would be controlled by a passive volume controller or 1 of several headphone amps/preamps on hand. Whatever device I used as a system preamp, the volume pot settings were comparable: a touch below 9 o'clock on the dial for low-volume classical streaming; all the way up to ~12:00 o'clock for loud stuff. And when listening to headphones, the volume of whatever amp I used acted predictably, similar to the same volume pot controlled speakers (ie, lower range for efficient/sealed HPs, higher for ZMF Ori/inefficient planar design).
> 
> ...



Yeah! The range in output voltage between DAC's is annoying. Vega had a crazy 3.5 volts. Fortunately being a preamp it had volume control so you could set it at 2/3's volume and it would be at that 1.9 volts. Which to me is about right. 
I don't know the volts on the Yggy however from my listening and system experiences I would guess it is very high. It would be nice if they built a function into DACs to set output from high to a standard 1.9 volts. 

I do have one thing in my system to help me out. I don't use computer. I use a iPod classic (I know terrible) with everything ripped at red book CD standard in a Arcam dock. The dock has volume control. So I can lower the volume to allow volume control on the V281. Unfortunately when I turn the dock off and on it defaults to full volume. So I need to adjust every session. However it is helpful when using the V281. I don't have issues when using my tube amp. The tube amp volume has enough scope.


----------



## JacquesDewitt

Hello, that dac would be a good companion for this amp?
I am evaluating Yggdrasil, 2qute, gungir multibit, V850 and hugo2

Best regards


----------



## PleasantSounds

Pharmaboy said:


> [..]
> The only other solution I can think of (was going to try this in my system 'til I managed to drop the gain on the V281) is to pick up a good quality passive volume controller (w/or w/o additional inputs/outputs) and put that in line between Yggy & your V281. Yes, it's an additional device (albeit passive) + 1 set of interconnects. But that would create way more flexibility in adjusting system (or just headphone out) gain.



One more option you may have (if you don't do that already) is lower the volume at your source. It won't affect the resolution if your DAC is receiving 24-bit signal.
Generally most of the digital material is mastered too hot anyway and many DACs don't cope with this too well. The result may be not only better range of the volume pot, but less clipping.


----------



## Pharmaboy

JacquesDewitt said:


> Hello, that dac would be a good companion for this amp?
> I am evaluating Yggdrasil, 2qute, gungir multibit, V850 and hugo2
> 
> Best regards



My vote would be an Audio GD DAC-19. It's not only one of the cheapest R2 R DACs around, but sounds absolutely terrific, praised by many here. They retail for a little over $900 + shipping. I just checked Magna Hifi in the Netherlands, where I bought both my Audio GD DACs. Shocked to find they still have stock on the DAC-19 (it won't last/product being phased out by Audio GD):
http://www.magnahifi.com/en/webshop/product/audio-gd-dac-19

Also very surprised they also have stock on the non-oversampling version of the DAC-19, the NOS 19 (same story--it won't last long): 
http://www.magnahifi.com/en/webshop/product/audio-gd-nos-19

You should be able to get a quality used DAC-19 for $600-$700. Here's a typical Head-Fi listing (not shilling this Head-Fi member or his F.S item...just illustrating availability):
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/for-sale-audio-gd-dac19-600-usd.853426/#post-13561021

You might see a used NOS 19 come up every 18 months or so. Historically, just a fraction of Audio GD DACs sold are the NOS. Most are DAC-19s.

I own both the DAC-19 and NOS 19. The latter is my favorite DAC and the least "digital" sounding digital device I've ever heard. But they're both terrific DACs, in a class by themselves IMO. 

And if you buy new, you can configure it w/o the ACCS connection--just ask them to convert it to a 2nd RCA output pair. And let me tell you, having 2 outputs on your DAC is when things really get interesting (ie, run two completely different HP amps; or 1 HP amp for headphones and a HP/preamp for speaker system + 2nd HP amp listening option). 

Yes, I'm a total Audio GD fanboy, R2 R digital fanboy, and lover of non-oversampling R2 R (proud to be all 3, because now digital files/CDs, etc sound like real music).


----------



## fixated

Hi Ya'll,

Seeing as there are discussions about gain and how much voltage the DAC should output via lineout, I'm curious to see if anyone is using a Hugo TT with their V281 and at what setting they have it on? I believe when the Hugo TT is on lineout mode it's at 3V so it might be "too much" for the V281. I'm waiting for my Hugo TT purchase and I'm just doing some research for later usage! TYIA.


----------



## novicez1

@lonerboy13

That will largely depend on your listening volume and the track's gain. Personally, I use +15db on my RS06 with -12db on my V281 and my listening volume's around 10~11 oclock for -6 to -3db tracks and 12 oclock for 0~+3db tracks.


----------



## S Crowther

lonerboy13 said:


> Hi Ya'll,
> 
> Seeing as there are discussions about gain and how much voltage the DAC should output via lineout, I'm curious to see if anyone is using a Hugo TT with their V281 and at what setting they have it on? I believe when the Hugo TT is on lineout mode it's at 3V so it might be "too much" for the V281. I'm waiting for my Hugo TT purchase and I'm just doing some research for later usage! TYIA.


I have this set up. Violectric advised me to reduce the output from the TT by 10%. Luckily the TT has a volume control so this is no problem.


----------



## Pharmaboy

S Crowther said:


> I have this set up. Violectric advised me to reduce the output from the TT by 10%. Luckily the TT has a volume control so this is no problem.



I sorta get the feeling based on comments here about Auralic Vega & Hugo, that DAC/amps w/volume pots are designed to have high output voltage (3-4v or more). 

(possibly to allow maximum system and/or HP volume at full rotation of volume dial?)

I've only owned 2 DAC/amps v/volume pots:

FiiO E10K, which I still have. It's hardly a powerhouse amp & I've only used it on headphones, where it never struck me as "too hot" in output.

Audio GD NFB 15.32 (since sold): Now that I think about it, it _was_ very difficult to get the volume over ~10:30 o'clock, either w/powered speakers or any headphones. It struck me as way more powerful sounding that its specs suggested. So perhaps this DAC/amp was set up w/higher output voltage.


----------



## fixated

S Crowther said:


> I have this set up. Violectric advised me to reduce the output from the TT by 10%. Luckily the TT has a volume control so this is no problem.



Ohh, that sounds interesting. Would you happen to remember the color for that? I have the mojo which I'm temporarily using while I'm waiting for the hugo tt but that has two colored balls which indicates the volume while the Hugo TT only has one.


----------



## zhgutov (Jul 9, 2017)

Pharmaboy said:


> For example, while I've just dropped the gain by a total of 14 additional dB from where it had been, I've only listened for a couple hours on the monitors (it sounds great). But the decrease in gain will no doubt also affect headphones--tomorrow or the next day I'll check that out.



Back DIP-switches and internal DIP-switches work independently.
Back switches affect the headphone outputs only.
Internal switches affect the line outputs only.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> Back DIP-switches and internal DIP-switches work independently.
> Back switches affect the headphone outputs only.
> Internal switches affect the line outputs only.



I respectfully disagree about back dip-switches affecting only HP out vs internal dip-switches affecting only line out. That's definitely not what I experienced:

I did all my gain testing via RCA line out to powered studio monitors + sub, at least initially
1st step was lowering gain by 14 dB/channel on the back panel's dip-switches. There was a noticeable reduction in gain of the line out, though not quite enough (ie, through monitors + sub)

2nd step was to lower gain by 12 dB/channel on the internal dip-switches. The result was a noticeable, additional drop in line-out gain, which satisified me and works well in my system (again, through monitors + sub)

Only after all that, did I finally do headphone listening, and found that all headphones I tested were getting a lessening of gain from the V281's outputs (SE & Balanced) roughly equivalent to what I heard via line-out to monitors + sub.
*Note: *what I call "line out" can actually be configured differently via buttons on the upper left of front panel--for example, to remove the volume pot from control of RCA outputs (say, if you wanted to run the RCA outputs to a preamp or stereo receiver). I'm pretty sure that can be done completely independently of what the headphone output does (ie, where you must have the volume pot in the circuit).

I mention this only to say that my gain-dropping experience pertains only to the lIne out setting where the volume pot controls output. For all I know, the external and/or internal dip-switches may have somewhat different effects if the line out setting is other that what I use.

*Note-2:* I never tested the gain reduction via XLR outputs, though I plan to. I fully expect the balanced outs will behave similarly to the RCA outs, but just haven't had the time to check.

(the V281 is actually rather complicated operationally due to the multitude of I/O switching scenarios.


----------



## zhgutov

Pharmaboy said:


> I respectfully disagree about back dip-switches affecting only HP out vs internal dip-switches affecting only line out. That's definitely not what I experienced



This is strange. I think this is only possible if you have the unit with the different behaviour.
I'm not at home right now to check everything again, but this is what I remember.
I have a DAC with 24 dBu (12.3 V RMS) outputs via XLR.
Both DIP-switches (internal and external) are set to -14 dB.
In that case I have ~10 dBu for the maximum level at line out.
I can be sure about that, because I have ADC with 8.5 dBu inputs, and I can reach this level.
Anyway, it is strange again, because the line out PCB is optional, so the signal should not go through it for headphones.
Another thing is when I change the line out mode from "as is" to controlled via volume pot.
At the maximum position there is no any change in the level/sound.
So, in this case internal DIP-switches always affect the line out.


----------



## zhgutov

sahmen said:


> The sound is good in every respect, except that it seems to lack very slightly in bass impact/extension as compared to the He-6 driven by my Bryston 2b-LP, and hooked up with speaker taps.  I am talking about a difference that is very slight, without being entirely inaudible, and not implying that the He-6's bass on the v281 is "thin" or anything like that.



Which version of the volume control do you have? Standard or relay-based?


----------



## sahmen

zhgutov said:


> Which version of the volume control do you have? Standard or relay-based?



Standard... I have the standard remote, if that is what you mean.


----------



## S Crowther

lonerboy13 said:


> Ohh, that sounds interesting. Would you happen to remember the color for that? I have the mojo which I'm temporarily using while I'm waiting for the hugo tt but that has two colored balls which indicates the volume while the Hugo TT only has one.


I try and keep thecolour ongreen


lonerboy13 said:


> Ohh, that sounds interesting. Would you happen to remember the color for that? I have the mojo which I'm temporarily using while I'm waiting for the hugo tt but that has two colored balls which indicates the volume while the Hugo TT only has one.


I try and keep the colour on green.
Interestingly Violectric did not suggest using the DIP switches to lower the gain.


----------



## fixated

S Crowther said:


> I try and keep thecolour ongreen
> 
> I try and keep the colour on green.
> Interestingly Violectric did not suggest using the DIP switches to lower the gain.



Will give it a try when my Hugo TT arrives. Thanks for the info!


----------



## zhgutov (Jul 11, 2017)

sahmen said:


> Standard... I have the standard remote, if that is what you mean.



Hmm... My guess is not confirmed. Interesting...)



S Crowther said:


> Interestingly Violectric did not suggest using the DIP switches to lower the gain.



I think, that's because Chord DACs go beyond 0 dBFS at maximum level. So, this may lead to clipping.
Proof is here: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/chord-hugo-tt-rca.php
"The signal level while playing: Optimal (none maximum) level"
There are comments in russian talking about that too.
They suggest to set output level to 15-20 dB below the maximum.


----------



## jermaink

I've got a naive question: Are there any issues when simultaneously using the 6.3 mm output jack at the same time as XLR headphone port? Basically, powering 2 headphones at the same time?


----------



## fixated

jermaink said:


> I've got a naive question: Are there any issues when simultaneously using the 6.3 mm output jack at the same time as XLR headphone port? Basically, powering 2 headphones at the same time?



Tried that before, shouldn't have any problems aside from the volume being too loud for one of the headphones/iems you might be using.


----------



## zhgutov (Jul 13, 2017)

jermaink said:


> I've got a naive question: Are there any issues when simultaneously using the 6.3 mm output jack at the same time as XLR headphone port? Basically, powering 2 headphones at the same time?



First of all this may affect the crosstalk. I think this is the weak point.
Especially if you use low impedance headphones or 3-wire 6.3mm connection.
Will you notice that? I don't know actually. It depends.

[UPD. Looks like I made wrong conclusion. Surprisingly simultaneous connection does not affect the crosstalk. This becomes much more interesting to research.]


----------



## watchdog507 (Jul 15, 2017)

jermaink said:


> I've got a naive question: Are there any issues when simultaneously using the 6.3 mm output jack at the same time as XLR headphone port? Basically, powering 2 headphones at the same time?



The balanced headphone jack will have 6db more gain than the 6.3 mm jack so it will be louder.


----------



## tunes

watchdog507 said:


> The balanced headphone jack will have 6bd more gain than the 6.3 mm jack so it will be louder.


For seemingly power hungry TOTL headphones such as the Hifiman 1000 V2 that may need more than the CHORD Hugo 2 can supply for larger sound stage, dynamics, improved bass impact/slam, I have come across several reasonably priced amps that others have reported good synergy with the HEK V2 in this regard including the MicroZOTL2 tube amp, the Violectric HPA V281, the Trilogy 931 (special order from England), the very inexpensive Schiit Jotunheim, and  finally the Wells Audio Milo.  Has anyone heard any of these with the HEK V2 and also with the Focal Utopias??  At the moment I am mostly considering the Vioelectric vs Milo.


----------



## watchdog507

tunes said:


> For seemingly power hungry TOTL headphones such as the Hifiman 1000 V2 that may need more than the CHORD Hugo 2 can supply for larger sound stage, dynamics, improved bass impact/slam, I have come across several reasonably priced amps that others have reported good synergy with the HEK V2 in this regard including the MicroZOTL2 tube amp, the Violectric HPA V281, the Trilogy 931 (special order from England), the very inexpensive Schiit Jotunheim, and  finally the Wells Audio Milo.  Has anyone heard any of these with the HEK V2 and also with the Focal Utopias??  At the moment I am mostly considering the Vioelectric vs Milo.



I don't have the HEK V2's but I do have the V1's.  and I do like the V281 in terms of synergy.  There is power, control and detail albeit with a fairly sterile if accurate presentation.  The detail and resolution is the V281's strong point.  It also has a huge amount of flexibility as a device in any system that you add it to.


----------



## project86

Agreed, V281 is my go-to with HE1000. I tried HE1000 v2 which also paired well, but in the end I prefer the original. Either way, v281 in balanced mode is killer, better than my other favorite amp which is the Pass HPA-1. The Pass has its moments where it edges out the Violectric, but in this case V281 is the clear winner.

The Utopias I heard were bright and a tad lean imho, so I ultimately preferred something warmer/smoother than the Violectric for those. V281 was fine but after a while it became fatiguing. I actually think I liked the Elear better than Utupia - again, with the specific examples I heard, not saying that carries across all of them.


----------



## Pharmaboy

The V281 in balanced mode is really something special. I've heard it balanced with just 2 headphones (ZMF Ori; ZMF Eikon) and really was wowed.

I've given a lot of though to the "tonality" of the V281. I've now heard it extensively through 2 pairs of powered monitors; and with 4-5 headphones; all on a wide range of material. Here's what I conclude:

The V281 doesn't seem to highlight/spotlight any particular frequencies...there's no overt glare or grain, and the upper midrange and treble are not hyped or fatiguing
The entire bass range is concussive, totaly world-class, the best I've ever heard (quality & quantity)
What the V281 DOES do in a borderline-spectacular manner is *dynamics*. Maybe it's those black backgrounds, the good S/N ratio, low THD, great power supply (not sure of details)--whatever it comes from, this amp has really extreme "jump factor." Sometimes it actually surprises me & makes me jump (particularly via headphones).
It's easy to mistake this for "brightness" (if the notes that jump are upper midrange & treble), but it's really not that at all.

The other obvious trait of this mega-power amp is soundstaging, particularly in balanced mode. It's very wide, with notes anchored in rock-solid fashion in space. Soundstaging is pretty deep compared to many SS amps, though not in the 3D category of tubes.
I like to contrast the V281 to the Lake People G109-A; they share a certain sonic "family resemblance," primarily in the cleanness, black backgrounds, and freedom from glare. But the G109-A is subtly warm (just a few degrees in that direction)--even more telling, it has a somewhat softer (though still impactful) way of delivering notes, up & down the frequency range. It's just a question of degree, but this makes the G109-A a little more relaxing. Then again, the soundstaging of the G109-A is not in the same class as the V281's (it's average at best), and neither is its power.

I've said before that having the V281 in my system is like having Superman on the desktop. At any second it can break away & take off.

BTW, had a chance to hear the balanced outputs of the V281 yesterday. I wired it direct to my powered monitors (ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7's, which mfr recommends receive only balanced inputs). Despite the absence of my sub (no way to connect in that config), the Yamaha's sounded the best this way of any wiring scheme I've heard. The V281 is a sensational preamp, as if all the rest weren't enough.


----------



## Svatopluk

project86 said:


> Agreed, V281 is my go-to with HE1000. I tried HE1000 v2 which also paired well, but in the end I prefer the original. Either way, v281 in balanced mode is killer, better than my other favorite amp which is the Pass HPA-1. The Pass has its moments where it edges out the Violectric, but in this case V281 is the clear winner.
> 
> The Utopias I heard were bright and a tad lean imho, so I ultimately preferred something warmer/smoother than the Violectric for those. V281 was fine but after a while it became fatiguing. I actually think I liked the Elear better than Utupia - again, with the specific examples I heard, not saying that carries across all of them.


I've been using the Utopia with the V280 which as I understand, fundamentally shares it's amp section with the V281. I do not find the Utopia to be bright, lean or fatiguing with the V280 > Gumby combo, at least that's my opinion.

 Perhaps the DAC was responsible for the lackluster pairing of the Utopia and V281.


----------



## project86

That's the funny thing, I was using an older AudioLogic tube DAC which was quite warm and smooth already.... No, I suspect it was just the particular pair of Utopias I had on hand. Sounds like I got a bad pair, and yours might be better.


----------



## Thenewguy007

project86 said:


> Agreed, V281 is my go-to with HE1000. I tried HE1000 v2 which also paired well, but in the end I prefer the original. Either way, v281 in balanced mode is killer, better than my other favorite amp which is the Pass HPA-1. The Pass has its moments where it edges out the Violectric, but in this case V281 is the clear winner.



What did you not like about the V2? I searched your web reviews & didn't see any reviews for the V2.
I was thinking of upgrading to the V2 on the 281, but would always love to hear other peoples opnions.


----------



## project86

Thenewguy007 said:


> What did you not like about the V2? I searched your web reviews & didn't see any reviews for the V2.
> I was thinking of upgrading to the V2 on the 281, but would always love to hear other peoples opnions.



I haven't really mentioned it much, but I definitely prefer the original. 

First off, comfort. The new V2 design just doesn't feel as good on my head. I didn't need the reduced weight, nor did I benefit from the new strap or added range of adjustment. I have a large head and I can see why some people had trouble with the V1 but for me it was perfect. Also my ears come dangerously close to touching the inside of the cup on V2 - it makes me nervous. That's not a problem on the original.

As for sound, the V2 is a little brighter and more forward, which is not something I want from the HE1000. V1 has better tonality to my ears - slightly darker than V2, more liquid and smooth, while at the same time being suitably fast and nimble as a whole. Bass sounds more realistic on the V1 as well.... V2 might have a quicker attack but V1 sounds more accurate to my ears. 

V2 sounds like they are trying to sound lighter, faster, more HD800-like, and it just doesn't sound as pleasing to me. I still like V2 but given the choice I prefer the original. I suppose you could build a great system around either one though.


----------



## UntilThen

I have Yggdrasil as DAC and I am about to buy Ragnorak.

Before I commit, anyone heard both Rag and V281 and what their opinions might be.

My headphone is primarily HD800 although I also have T1 and HD650. Also thinking of getting a Eikon or Atticus.


----------



## Topspin70

UntilThen said:


> I have Yggdrasil as DAC and I am about to buy Ragnorak.
> 
> Before I commit, anyone heard both Rag and V281 and what their opinions might be.
> 
> My headphone is primarily HD800 although I also have T1 and HD650. Also thinking of getting a Eikon or Atticus.



I was considering these two as well. Check out this post #2968 from way back: 
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil.667711/page-198


----------



## UntilThen

Topspin70 said:


> I was considering these two as well. Check out this post #2968 from way back:
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil.667711/page-198



Thanks. I read all of that.

I first heard V281 at a Sydney meet in 2016 with a T1 in balanced mode. It sounded warm and nice, unlike an ss amp. If I had no other choice I would buy it because I like what I heard.

However, recently I audition Yggdrasil with Ragnarok with HD800 at Addicted To Audio in Newton Sydney. That day I walk away with Yggy and HD800, making a mental note to myself that I will be back to buy the Rag. I definitely like / love what I heard in Yggy Rag and HD800. I wish there was a LCD3 around.

Thanks again Topspin. Wish you all the best in your eventual amp choice.


----------



## UntilThen

The reason I ask is because there's a delay in A2A order of the Rag from USA and the dealer suggested V281 if I didn't want to wait. I could walk out of the store with the V281 tomorrow if I wanted to.

I will wait now....


----------



## Topspin70

UntilThen said:


> The reason I ask is because there's a delay in A2A order of the Rag from USA and the dealer suggested V281 if I didn't want to wait. I could walk out of the store with the V281 tomorrow if I wanted to.
> 
> I will wait now....



My feeling is that sonically they are quite different, warmish vs neutral, each has its own appeal. I'm sure V281 fans on this thread would talk you out of waiting. For me, I'm waiting to hit lottery so I can own both. ; )


----------



## UntilThen

Agree agree. Which is why I said I did enjoy V281 with T1 too.

It's not day and night difference in sonic enjoyment. Just different as you say.

Personally I could be happy with either.


----------



## project86

Purrin didn't really care for the V281 all that much, and to my knowledge has never enjoyed any other Violectric product. Contrast that with his seemingly undying love for (almost) all things Schiit, and his personal friendship with Jason/Mike. Make of that what you will. I certainly don't think there's anything shady going on there but I also don't think he is judging purely on sound in most cases. 

My position on the Ragnarok is that it's a great integrated but not the best headphone amp in the world if you don't need the speaker portion. While very enjoyable, I feel it is a bit lacking in realism compared to the best amps out there. I'd much rather use the V281 or the Pass Labs HPA-1, without question. It's counterpart, the Yggdrasil, seems to be a more significant contribution to its category, if that makes any sense. 

If you head over to InnerFidelity and search for the Big Sound 2015 series, you can read more impressions. Tyll assembled a world-class rig with many top level amps and DACs (plus an expensive Aurender and major power conditioning/cabling) including both the Ragnarok and the V281, and had a bunch of headphone enthusiast come over for listening sessions. Impressions were all over the map - some thought V281 was among the best amps there, others found it mediocre. Ragnarok didn't seem to do as well and I don't recall anyone liking it the most, but it did win some fans depending on the headphone being used. 

Tyll summarized the Ragnarok as being "really good" and "a beast of an amp" but then said "To my ears it fell a bit behind some of the other amps in terms of finesse and air, however; I did feel it as a bit lifeless relative to the best amps of the bunch." And also "I'd consider this amp a pretty damned good solution if you've got balanced planar magnetic headphones and need to drive some small-ish speakers, but I don't feel it's the best solution for HD 800 owners looking for world class resolution."

About V281, he concluded "The sound of the V281 was solid and right down the middle. Plenty of weight in the bass, and good balance and evenness broadly; the feature set is very good (it even has a balance control); and the build quality seemed quite good. The only problem I had with it was a modest lack of engagement relative to the other amps; it didn't sound as smooth and liquid to my ears.

None the less, it showed itself as competent, and even a favorite for some of the Big Sound participants. I certainly would feel pretty good about having one of my own were I your average headphone enthusiast. The Violectric is a very versatile and competent headphone amp."

Clear as mud, right? My enjoyment of the V281 is well known and plenty of people here agree - but some don't. And that's fine. That's why it's great to have so many quality options to choose from - something for everyone.


----------



## UntilThen

project86 said:


> That's why it's great to have so many quality options to choose from - something for everyone.



Thanks for the detailed reply. In choosing either of these 2 amps, I wasn't expecting it to be the best headphone amp in the world. That's not my criteria. That would be a tall order.  I just wanted a capable ss amp to contrast with my tube amp and initially my thought is to get a planar magnetic to pair with my HD800, T1 and HD650.

I have read those impressions but I am also a believer in listening to them for myself. Fortunately I have been able to do so, albeit only at a meet and a store. It's not sufficient to draw any conclusion but it's still better than not trying it at all. In fact I will be going to A2A in the morning to audition the V281 with Yggdrasil again.

I did not come here with a preconceived mind. If I wasn't keen on V281, I wouldn't be asking the questions here. I'm not solely a Schiit fan. Yggdrasil is the only Schiit gear I've bought. The decision on the amp will not be based on brand, form factor or even price. It's just a $300 price difference. What matters is how I like it's sound with my current headphones and the impending planar or a ZMF new range of dynamic headphone. I don't have ears of a dedicated reviewer but I do know what I like when I hear it.

Which leads to your last statement which I quoted. Too true. As audio enthusiasts, it can only be good for us. I for one would not complain about too many good quality options.


----------



## project86

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply. In choosing either of these 2 amps, I wasn't expecting it to be the best headphone amp in the world. That's not my criteria. That would be a tall order.  I just wanted a capable ss amp to contrast with my tube amp and initially my thought is to get a planar magnetic to pair with my HD800, T1 and HD650.
> 
> I have read those impressions but I am also a believer in listening to them for myself. Fortunately I have been able to do so, albeit only at a meet and a store. It's not sufficient to draw any conclusion but it's still better than not trying it at all. In fact I will be going to A2A in the morning to audition the V281 with Yggdrasil again.
> 
> ...




Just to be clear, I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned preconceptions/biases.  But yeah, you have the right idea - listen for yourself, with your music, your gear (if possible), and most importantly - your ears. That's by far the best way to know for sure.


----------



## UntilThen

project86 said:


> Just to be clear, I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned preconceptions/biases.  But yeah, you have the right idea - listen for yourself, with your music, your gear (if possible), and most importantly - your ears. That's by far the best way to know for sure.



Understood.  I was just stating that I have to keep an open mind when deciding on either of these 2 amps. I won't be buying another such amp again.  I do have a preference for a slightly warmer tone.

In 3 hours time, I'll make my way to A2A. To say that I'm excited is an understatement.  A2A has all the gear there so I don't need to bring anything. They have a black Yggdrasil, black Violectric V281 and I'll make sure they hooked me up with a balanced HD800 and LCD2.2


----------



## Arnold Schwartz

Would love to hear your thoughts, I was contemplating pairing the V281 with Yggdrasil and my stock HD800. Unfortunately where I live I can't demo any equipment.


----------



## UntilThen

Arnold Schwartz said:


> Would love to hear your thoughts, I was contemplating pairing the V281 with Yggdrasil and my stock HD800. Unfortunately where I live I can't demo any equipment.



Hi Arnold, the short answer is just get the V281. It is really good with Yggy and HD800. I was very impressed. Great synergy here. 

Read my impression here...
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/feliks-audio-tube-amps.854783/page-22#post-13615100


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 22, 2017)

Brian seems to think that the V281 is a great pairing with the HD800 too. I agree, esp in balance mode.

Skip to 10:47 for HD800 and 11:43 for LCD3.


----------



## project86

Sounds like a great trip! Thanks for the write up. 

That black Yggdrasil looks great, too bad their V281 was actually silver and thus didn't match. I normally prefer silver in general but the Schiit stuff looks killer in black.


----------



## Levanter

UntilThen said:


> Thanks. I read all of that.
> 
> I first heard V281 at a Sydney meet in 2016 with a T1 in balanced mode. It sounded warm and nice, unlike an ss amp. If I had no other choice I would buy it because I like what I heard.
> 
> ...



Ahh did you get the HD800 during their year end sales? They were going mad cheap at A$999. I actually placed an order for 2 units, but had to change my order to 1 HD800S instead since they were out of stock and the restocking delivery was delayed. As i'm no longer in Australia, I had to send them to my friend as he was returning for a visit so I had a short time frame. Wished I managed to get the HD800 though, get to save more cash to pump into other stuffs.


----------



## UntilThen

Levanter said:


> Ahh did you get the HD800 during their year end sales? They were going mad cheap at A$999. I actually placed an order for 2 units, but had to change my order to 1 HD800S instead since they were out of stock and the restocking delivery was delayed. As i'm no longer in Australia, I had to send them to my friend as he was returning for a visit so I had a short time frame. Wished I managed to get the HD800 though, get to save more cash to pump into other stuffs.



Unfortunately I paid $1284 for my HD800 and that was 3 weeks before the EOF year sale. I didn't know about the sale. However I did get further discount on both Yggy and HD800 as a package. Tom is superb to deal with.


----------



## UntilThen

project86 said:


> Sounds like a great trip! Thanks for the write up.
> 
> That black Yggdrasil looks great, too bad their V281 was actually silver and thus didn't match. I normally prefer silver in general but the Schiit stuff looks killer in black.



I know. Things are not going well for me colour wise. My Yggy is silver but when I saw that black version, it is so striking. I want it. 

Also they only have V281 in silver atm for their standard version. They have a version 2 in black but the price jumps to $3399. Version 1 is $2999 and standard is $2699. I think it's a different volume pot. Must be fancy ones. 

However with sound that good, I don't care what colour they come in.


----------



## project86

The relay-based volume pot upgrade makes a small difference. I could spot the increased transparency when I had one of each on hand for direct comparisons, but I don't normally recommend it based on the cost. It's only for those who demand the absolute best - on a conceptual level if nothing else - to the point where knowing they missed out on the slightest improvement would reduce their enjoyment.


----------



## Pharmaboy

project86 said:


> The relay-based volume pot upgrade makes a small difference. I could spot the increased transparency when I had one of each on hand for direct comparisons, but I don't normally recommend it based on the cost. It's only for those who demand the absolute best - on a conceptual level if nothing else - to the point where knowing they missed out on the slightest improvement would reduce their enjoyment.



There's another, quite significant advantage to the motorized pot upgrade: it has 128 steps, approximately 3X the 43 steps of the standard pot. This allows more accurate, fine-tuning of volume, whether listening to headphones or speakers via line outputs. 

Also, as a number of recent posts (mine among them) will attest, the rather extravagant gain of the V281, when set to unity gain, can be lowered using internal & external dip-switches for that purpose--in effecting, moving the effective range of volume control further up the dial. In my case, after dropping the V281's gain by 26 dB overall, the effective range went from ~7:30 - 9:00 o'clock on the dial (low volume to medium loud volume) up to ~9:00 - 12:00 o'clock on the dial, where I have approximately 1/4 of those 128 steps to work with now--in other words, about 75% of all the volume steps available on the entire stock, stepped pot.


----------



## Badas (Jul 22, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I know. Things are not going well for me colour wise. My Yggy is silver but when I saw that black version, it is so striking. I want it.
> 
> Also they only have V281 in silver atm for their standard version. They have a version 2 in black but the price jumps to $3399. Version 1 is $2999 and standard is $2699. I think it's a different volume pot. Must be fancy ones.
> 
> However with sound that good, I don't care what colour they come in.



Is there any pics of the black Yggy?

My silver one looks like a pimple in my rack. It also sits in a top shelf home Theater and reflections off the projection screen reflect off the silver surface causing distraction while viewing films.

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Badas

I wonder if a black case can be shipped and the user can switch out the case. . I've even debated getting it painted. Best sounding DAC I've heard tho.


----------



## UntilThen

@Badas  how do you like all your gear together at Addicted To Audio? 

 

A better picture of the black Yggdrasil with the silver v281.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 22, 2017)

Badas said:


> I wonder if a black case can be shipped and the user can switch out the case. . I've even debated getting it painted. Best sounding DAC I've heard tho.



I don't know if you can get it painted as well as what Schiit does. It's a very nice coarse black powder coating. Agree on the sound of Yggy.

Yggy sounds dynamic and lively, with details galore. I think it paired beautifully with v281, the latter controlling, taming the HD800 to brilliance. I do wish to hear a Audeze LCD2.2 or 3 on it or any planar magnetic or one of ZMF new range of dynamic headphones.


----------



## senator52

I don't profess to be much of an audio expert but I have the v850/v281 combo (in black) which I got from A2A (for those Aussies I see discuss in the thread above, A2A is expensive but the online service and shipping is excellent, never made it to a store) and I love the combo with my HD800S (balanced) or R70X (unbalanced). I have to say I didn't notice how much I liked them until I used some lesser kit recently and really noticed the difference. The main difference the v281 brings is the completely silent background and full bodied sound, you can hear the power (even with the Senns). 

Very happy with my setup though I'd love to add a tube amp at some point just because I've never tried one.


----------



## UntilThen (Jul 23, 2017)

I imagine the v850/v281 combo to be good in sound and looks. A2A is indeed more expensive but they do have sales regularly. Plus being able to audition gear before purchase is great. An in store experience is worth it. You can listen to any of the high end headphones there.  The store price are the same as the online price. Plus if you are a repeat customer, they will discount those items even lower than the online price. 

You are the opposite of me. I had several tube amps but now I want to get an ss amp to go along with it.


----------



## senator52

I picked up the v281/v850 for just under 3.5 about this time last year, so ironically from everything I've seen about Violectric being expensive, in Australia they were actually quite at the affordable end of the high end(ish) audio market.


----------



## UntilThen

I believe you about the price. I would have been given a good discount if I wanted to go for the v281. Some gear prices are the reversed here. Ragnarok is selling at Schiit Audio USA for $1699. Violectric v281 price overseas is $2299. US dollars here.

However here at A2A, Rag is $2950 and v281 is $2699. Aussie dollars here. So in Australia, prices for these 2 items are the opposite.


----------



## Liu Junyuan (Jul 23, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> I believe you about the price. I would have been given a good discount if I wanted to go for the v281. Some gear prices are the reversed here. Ragnarok is selling at Schiit Audio USA for $1699. Violectric v281 price overseas is $2299. US dollars here.
> 
> However here at A2A, Rag is $2950 and v281 is $2699. Aussie dollars here. So in Australia, prices for these 2 items are the opposite.



That's too much for a Rag. One of its appeals is its competitive price. The Vio is overpriced in US as well, but if it's less than the Rag there, you have less of an incentive to go with the Rag.

Honestly, if I were you I'd also look into the Audio-GD Master 9 as a serious competitor to both. It can be shipped to your side of the world for a reasonable price, and if you look back at Tony Newman's posts here, also an Australian, he jumped from the v281 to the M9, and while he really liked the former, he ended up preferring the latter.

This is not to slander against the Rag or the v281 at all but just to give you another option beyond the two. The Schiit amp loses a lot of its appeal when it's priced like that because dealers mark it up. Relative to it, the pricing of the v281 becomes less of an issue. The M9, however, can still be purchased directly just as Schiit can be in the US.


----------



## UntilThen

Liu Junyuan said:


> That's too much for a Rag. One of its appeals is its competitive price. The Vio is overpriced in US as well, but if it's less than the Rag there, you have less of an incentive to go with the Rag.
> 
> Honestly, if I were you I'd also look into the Audio-GD Master 9 as a serious competitor to both. It can be shipped to your side of the world for a reasonable price, and if you look back at Tony Newman's posts here, also an Australian, he jumped from the v281 to the M9, and while he really liked the former, he ended up preferring the latter.
> 
> This is not to slander against the Rag or the v281 at all but just to give you another option beyond the two. The Schiit amp loses a lot of its appeal when it's priced like that because dealers mark it up. Relative to it, the pricing of the v281 becomes less of an issue. The M9, however, can still be purchased directly just as Schiit can be in the US.



Interesting. Not wanting to hijack this thread with another amp discussion but I appreciate your suggestion. I did a quick read of the Audio Gd 9 and I get the impression it's very revealing, very hot and neutral bright. v281 on the other hand is neutral warm.

I think one's setup is an important consideration and also one's preference for sound signature. Personal preference is a big factor.

I'll never be able to roll gear like Tony does. I don't intend to get any deeper. I noticed that he's using Metrum Pavane > Audio Gd 9 > He-6. That might explain his preference.

However when I heard v281 with Yggdrasil and HD800 in balanced mode, I thought that it had great synergy. Really good here. 

It's true that Audio Gd 9 is cheaper for me but that's a 16kgs beast and shipping by DHL is a whopping $200.  However when shopping for an ss amp, slight price variation isn't going to influence my decision. I have to like what I hear. I will have a listen to Ragnarok again on Sunday but my memory of it with Yggy and HD800 is one of neutral. I don't know if I will like that in the long term.

Personally I like what I hear with Yggy > v281 > HD800 and have intention to purchase a LCD2.2 or 3 in future. I think I have a preference for neutral warm especially partnering gear like Yggy and HD800.

I won't close my mind though. In the next few days, I'll do a lot more reading. Who knows what amp I will eventually be getting but as of now, v281 seems to be the front runner.

Oh another consideration is heat. I will be using the amp with Yggy on my big L-shaped office desk. Does the v281 feel hot after several hours of usage? I believe it will be cooler than Rag and Audio Gd 9.


----------



## project86

Mine was in use for hours yesterday, and it got only moderately warm to the touch, at worst. Nowhere near as warm as some of my other amps, or even some DACs for that matter.


----------



## UntilThen

project86 said:


> Mine was in use for hours yesterday, and it got only moderately warm to the touch, at worst. Nowhere near as warm as some of my other amps, or even some DACs for that matter.



Thanks. That's good to know. That's my experience too at A2A. in the 2 hours session, the v281 was barely warm. The built is solidly constructed for such a small foot print shoe box shape amp. I like the volume control. It felt very smooth to turn and was very precise.


----------



## Badas

UntilThen said:


> @Badas  how do you like all your gear together at Addicted To Audio?
> 
> 
> 
> A better picture of the black Yggdrasil with the silver v281.



Black Yggy looks great. I want.


----------



## Asteron70

I've truly enjoyed my last 12 months with the v281 - definitely the best SS amp I've heard, and I've tried the GSX Mk2 and 430HA. But it HAS to be heard in XLR balanced mode (and via the 4pin out); the single ended mode is not as good.

I happen to be selling my fully upgraded v281, so let me know if interested (can ship to anywhere, the unit is in perfect condition, 4 years warranty left) - detailed ad is here:
http://www.aussieaudiomart.com/deta...violectric-v281-dac-preamp-hp-amp-rrp-us3290/


----------



## UntilThen

Asteron70 said:


> I've truly enjoyed my last 12 months with the v281 - definitely the best SS amp I've heard, and I've tried the GSX Mk2 and 430HA. But it HAS to be heard in XLR balanced mode (and via the 4pin out); the single ended mode is not as good.
> 
> I happen to be selling my fully upgraded v281, so let me know if interested (can ship to anywhere, the unit is in perfect condition, 4 years warranty left) - detailed ad is here:
> http://www.aussieaudiomart.com/deta...violectric-v281-dac-preamp-hp-amp-rrp-us3290/



Unfortunately I cannot justify a fully upgrade model. Standard is more than sufficient for me.

Agree that it's best in balanced mode. I will get the Cardas 4pin xlr cable for my hd800. Sounds absolutely awesome.


----------



## senator52

UntilThen said:


> Standard is more than sufficient for me.



I have the 'base' version, I've heard lots of people talking about the sonic upgrades of the different volume pots but I certainly have no issue with the base volume pot. I actually struggle to understand why a volume pot impacts the sound quality but I digress.


----------



## project86

I heard an older clone of a V200 back in the day. It was terrible. Not sure what they did wrong, but it sounded like nails on a chalkboard. I wouldn't trust a clone manufacturer to get quality control right, nor to accurately reproduce the design with the same quality. Especially not for $999 which still ain't cheap.


----------



## project86

Interesting. I guess I've never seen the insides of a V281 with regular volume option. Mine (relay version) looks like this:


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## fixated (Jul 29, 2017)

I'm a bit in a panic as my V281 went to an "Overloading" error where the MUTE and LINE are just blinking and I'm not sure what to do. I've tried turning it off and leaving it off for a couple of minutes but it does not seem to work. I've also had the hugo TT's volume lower than the line out mode so it won't output 3V, but that doesn't seem to work. Strangely enough I didn't have this issue previously when I had it setup the way it is right now. Anyone had this problem before?


----------



## fixated

lonerboy13 said:


> I'm a bit in a panic as my V281 went to an "Overloading" error where the MUTE and LINE are just blinking and I'm not sure what to do. I've tried turning it off and leaving it off for a couple of minutes but it does not seem to work. I've also had the hugo TT's volume lower than the line out mode so it won't output 3V, but that doesn't seem to work. Strangely enough I didn't have this issue previously when I had it setup the way it is right now. Anyone had this problem before?



Ok, false alarm. But still curious as to what might have caused it, it seemed to went back to normal after keeping it on without anything plugged for 10 mins.


----------



## project86

What were you doing prior to the error activation?


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## fixated (Jul 29, 2017)

project86 said:


> What were you doing prior to the error activation?



Just listening through the one of the SE outs and then it went quite and when I checked it was in that state already.

I think I first waited for maybe a minute or two just to see it I had the volume on the hugo TT too high but didn't seem to fix it. So I tried turning it off, unplugging it and then turning it on and then waiting for another minute or so. After that I tried checking the manual and decided to try turning it on without the XLR inputs and waited for a few minutes and that seems to have fixed it. What stumps me is that the volume on the hugo TT was set to a lower volume (at around green or the next shade of green after that) which is a suggestion from a previous post in this thread I think.

Although how I set the hugo TT's volume is that I start out at Line Level and then lower the volume that way, which I believe should still work fine.


----------



## project86

Weird. I'm at a loss as to what may have caused it. Were you listening at extreme volumes, or was your room particularly hot at the time? Do you have a power conditioner of any type, and if not have you ever had trouble with brownouts or other gremlins? Just grasping at straws here....


----------



## fixated

project86 said:


> Weird. I'm at a loss as to what may have caused it. Were you listening at extreme volumes, or was your room particularly hot at the time? Do you have a power conditioner of any type, and if not have you ever had trouble with brownouts or other gremlins? Just grasping at straws here....



No worries, It's the first time that's actually happened ever since I've gotten my v281 so I'm also at a loss as well as to what might have caused it. I'll probably keep it under observation and check to see if it happens again and try to pin point what might be causing it by then. Better to try to see where the problem might be if it happens for a second time. Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## PleasantSounds

If it happened to me, I would thoroughly examine the headphone cable that was plugged in at the time.
Don't look at the input overload i.e. Hugo, but the output. Most likely you had an intermittent short there.


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## AppleheadMay

I am selling my V281 here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/violectric-v281-black-mint-eu-uk-sale-trade.856567/#post-13629548


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## LCMusicLover

Well, I ended up finding a lightly used v280 for a reasonable price on eBay.  Looking forward to enjoying an upgrade from my Matrix.  Of course, if it's not a notable upgrade ...


----------



## Audio-Mark

tunes said:


> For seemingly power hungry TOTL headphones such as the Hifiman 1000 V2 that may need more than the CHORD Hugo 2 can supply for larger sound stage, dynamics, improved bass impact/slam, I have come across several reasonably priced amps that others have reported good synergy with the HEK V2 in this regard including the MicroZOTL2 tube amp, the Violectric HPA V281, the Trilogy 931 (special order from England), the very inexpensive Schiit Jotunheim, and  finally the Wells Audio Milo.  Has anyone heard any of these with the HEK V2 and also with the Focal Utopias??  At the moment I am mostly considering the Vioelectric vs Milo.



I use a Violectric V280, Chord 2Qute and a HEK V2 and I'm totally happy with the music my set makes.


----------



## AppleheadMay (Aug 1, 2017)

LCMusicLover said:


> Well, I ended up finding a lightly used v280 for a reasonable price on eBay.  Looking forward to enjoying an upgrade from my Matrix.  Of course, if it's not a notable upgrade ...



If the V280 sounds anything like the V281 it will definitely be a big upgrade.
Mine is sold by the way.

I see you have the HD6XX coming, same here. 
I do have a HD600 and HD650 already but can't get enough of them.
And for $199 for a spare 650 it won't hurt my wallet that bad.
These phones are such great value and beat many phones sold at multiples of their price.


----------



## Pharmaboy

LCMusicLover said:


> Well, I ended up finding a lightly used v280 for a reasonable price on eBay.  Looking forward to enjoying an upgrade from my Matrix.  Of course, if it's not a notable upgrade ...



I have a Matrix M Stage HPA-1 (w/o DAC). The Matrix is a real overachiever (warm, expansive sound, but not a ton of resolution); I upgraded the opamp and it got better in terms of pinpoint soundstaging and more resolution, but I'm not sure it's as much fun as before.

Anyway, the V281, particularly in balanced mode, walks all over the Matrix. The V280 is a non-preamp version of the V281; it can output either SE or balanced and should sound the same as the V281. I haven't hard the 3rd iteration of the Matrix (it's said to sound more neutral than mine), but I suspect the V280 will walk all over it, anyway.

In fact, I predict the V280 will really blow your mind. This design is VERY powerful, emphatic: the best bass I've ever heard through headphones + amazing soundstaging via balanced (and not bad at all via SE). The dynamics are nuts, truly state-of-the art. Some say the V281/280 is slightly warm; I hear it as pretty much dead-nuts neutral, no elevated treble or upper midrange. It has so much impact in the lower frequencies + those great dynamics, top to bottom, that it sounds the polar opposite of "thin" or "threadbare," as neutral amps sometimes can sound.

I often "change up" by listening to HPs through my Liquid Carbon, which has a beautiful, warm sound, also strong bass & soundstaging, but quite different...somewhat less dynamic than the V281 (_everything_ is less dynamic than the V281), but very satisfying in other ways.

I have 3 other amps, but between these 2, I'm a happy camper.


----------



## tunes

Pharmaboy said:


> I have a Matrix M Stage HPA-1 (w/o DAC). The Matrix is a real overachiever (warm, expansive sound, but not a ton of resolution); I upgraded the opamp and it got better in terms of pinpoint soundstaging and more resolution, but I'm not sure it's as much fun as before.
> 
> Anyway, the V281, particularly in balanced mode, walks all over the Matrix. The V280 is a non-preamp version of the V281; it can output either SE or balanced and should sound the same as the V281. I haven't hard the 3rd iteration of the Matrix (it's said to sound more neutral than mine), but I suspect the V280 will walk all over it, anyway.
> 
> ...



Not questioning the benefit of amp but in general Rob at CHORD is more against than for using one with the DAVE or HUGO2 because it adds distortion and coloration to the signal.  The HUGO2 and DAVE have ample power to drive the majority of TOTL cans.


----------



## fixated

tunes said:


> Not questioning the benefit of amp but in general Rob at CHORD is more against than for using one with the DAVE or HUGO2 because it adds distortion and coloration to the signal.  The HUGO2 and DAVE have ample power to drive the majority of TOTL cans.



Having tried the both the DAVE and the Hugo TT by themselves and with a dedicated amp, I would say that yes they did drive the headphones I was using just fine, I still found the usage of an external amp to be necessary as it made the listening experience much more enjoyable.

Although that being said, I have no idea why people keep having this debate whether or not the DAVE, Hugo TT, etc. need an external amp when its all up to the listener to discern whether they actually like the sound more with or without one.


----------



## project86

Agreed that Hugo etc can drive most cans well on their own. You might not always love the results (I don't) but it's not really a question of whether or not it can _drive them well_ - more like will you _enjoy _the presentation it gives. 

I guess it's a petty distinction if you really think about it.... but Rob Watts and others have claimed their presentation is sort of the default, and any other sound you might get with a different amp is colored. I'm not sure I agree but it doesn't matter. Certainly TRY the integrated headphone amp if you intend to use a Chord device. You might love it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

(watching this Hugo sub-thread w/interest)

I have owned 2 amp/DAC units: 

the FiiO E10K, which I use strictly for travel and/or burn-in these days (so it's not a factor, day-to-day)
and the Audio GD NFB 15.32 (since sold). It had a strong amp section (surprising power), but also a bit of typical delta-sigma glare in the upper midrange and treble. I would've loved to take the signal out of its DAC and run it to an external amp (or 2, or 3)--or input signal from a separate DAC to its amp (the only ways I know to isolate sonic signatures w/a combined unit). But no such RCA I/O were available on rear panel.
These days I run a separate DAC (usually Audio GD NOS 19; sometimes the DAC-19) + 2 amps at any given time, courtesy of 2 X RCA outputs on each DAC. Usually it's the V281 + the LC, but sometimes it's the Audio GD SA-31SE + LC, or Lake People G109-A (ie, many flavors & combinations).

I find it kind of hard to imagine going backwards to a locked-in DAC+Amp combo. As for mfrs deciding not to put convenience RCA I/O on combined units, I totally get it if the unit is compact (like the Hugo). But if the combo unit is large enough to accomodate RCA in's & out's, but does not--I tend to think they're letting their users down in the belief their unit is better than any other possible combinations (it may well be, but I'd like to find that out for myself).

Especially when the combo unit in question costs multiple-$1000s, IMO there's no reason not to let users use the DAC by itself, driving another amp; or the amp by itself driving another DAC.

An example of 1 pricey combo unit that _does_ offer I/O flexibility is the Mytek Brooklyn (I respect the designer for that).


----------



## project86

I think the reason for at least some of the limitations - many of these designers think of their unit as a DAC first, with headphone amp functionality being treated as an add-on. So you'll typically get RCA outputs and maybe XLR outs, and then the headphone out. Some devices are even available with or without the headphone section (see NuPrime DAC10/DAC10H or the Vinnie Rossi LIO. 

This reflects their attitude that you might use the device as a DAC only, or might use the headphone amp sometimes, or maybe both. They don't really consider the headphone stage as being on the same level as the DAC, so they don't anticipate anyone keeping it around after they upgrade to a better DAC. In my experience this is almost universally true. Some DACs have a good or even great amp stage on board, but it's rarely on the same level as their DAC (synergistic matches aside).


----------



## ostewart

Mmmmm this loaner just landed for review, and to use in my Susvara review too.


----------



## LCMusicLover

ostewart said:


> Mmmmm this loaner just landed for review, and to use in my Susvara review too.



Sweet!  Built-in DAC, or will you only test it fed from other DACs?


----------



## ostewart

LCMusicLover said:


> Sweet!  Built-in DAC, or will you only test it fed from other DACs?



No DAC in this one, unfortunately I don't have a balanced DAC on hand but will be using my trusty JDS Labs EL DAC which no doubt will be the bottleneck but its a really good DAC in its own right.


----------



## project86

Not a huge deal, the V281 does a great job with SE or balanced input independent of which output you end up using. It's extremely versatile!


----------



## Pharmaboy

ostewart said:


> Mmmmm this loaner just landed for review, and to use in my Susvara review too.



I'm looking at this picture of a black V281 (mine, purchased used, is silver), and I'm struck by the "volume pot conundrum" of this design:

My silver V281 has nearly invisible hash-marks on the faceplate, surrounding the volume pot (without shining a task-light directly on the faceplate, these hash-marks are invisible)

By contrast, your black V281 has rather visible hash-marks on the faceplate, which seems like a good idea

*EXCEPT* that both black & silver models have that truly invislble black-on-black hash-mark on the volume pot itself, wrapping around the surface and ending near the faceplate. There are no conventional light conditions, day or night, where this hash-mark can be seen by anyone except bats & owls
I got around the whole thing by sticking very thin slices of glued labels on top of the hash-mark on the volume pot. Even though the paper is less than 2mm thick, it's white and stands out from the black volume pot--problem solved.

Violectric made very few mistakes in this design, but these invisible hash-marks have to count as one...


----------



## ostewart

I believe this is the model with stepped attenuator volume as there are distinctive notches when changing volume, would I be correct in assuming this?


----------



## AppleheadMay

You can feel notches with the normal pot as well but it isn't really stepped from what I understood.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ostewart said:


> I believe this is the model with stepped attenuator volume as there are distinctive notches when changing volume, would I be correct in assuming this?



I haven't used a stock V281, just the one w/128-step, motorized volume pot. The stock volume pot is fundamentally different: though it looks the same, it's (if I'm not mistaken), the same excellent 43-step alps pot used in my Lake People G109-A. 

So the upgrade/motorized pot has roughly 3 times the # of steps as the stock volume pot. That would not be needed with a less powerful amp, but the V281 is a true monster. It sounds way more powerful than it's ratings suggest. Also, if you've been following this thread, I and others wrote about the need to lower the gain on the V281 to get it into parity with other devices in the system--particularly important when using as amp only w/efficient, low-impedance HPs; or when using it w/powered monitors as a preamp (I do both).

So if you're using a stock V281 with gain higher than it needs to be, your functional/usable steps on the stock volume pot would be (guessing) 7:30-8:30 on the dial...just a few steps, in reality. That's why the 128-step pot really matters. The motorized remote-control feature is not earth-shaking, but it's very very useful if the V281 is further away than arm's length, as mine is.


----------



## AppleheadMay

The 43 steps of the srock pot were plenty even though I used mainly low impedance high-efficency closed phones with it.
I used the standard 0db gain.


----------



## ostewart

Mainly using with the Susvara so 0dB gain and volume between 10 and 2 o'clock depending on the track 

It really is a powerful amp


----------



## phase0

ostewart said:


> Mmmmm this loaner just landed for review, and to use in my Susvara review too.



So any rough first impressions of Susvara on the V281? I haven't been too interested in it as it's just too expensive for me to care and I like what I have already. (Even if Susvara was clearly the best HP ever I still wouldn't buy it but we still like to compare and imagine...)

Also just in general does anyone have any thoughts about the integrated DACs available for the V281? I've thought about getting it sometimes as a convenience and backup option but I already have the Yggy and that might just be throwing money away..


----------



## AppleheadMay

phase0 said:


> So any rough first impressions of Susvara on the V281? I haven't been too interested in it as it's just too expensive for me to care and I like what I have already. (Even if Susvara was clearly the best HP ever I still wouldn't buy it but we still like to compare and imagine...)
> 
> Also just in general does anyone have any thoughts about the integrated DACs available for the V281? I've thought about getting it sometimes as a convenience and backup option but I already have the Yggy and that might just be throwing money away..



Mine didn't have the dac option but the consensus from what I read about it before I bought it was that their separate dac wasn't bad but nothing special, their dac board even a bit below that.
So if you have an Yggy that would indeed be a waste of koney from what I read.

How's the Yggy by the way? 
Sometimes I read that it's one of the best dacs out there, reminiscent of the old Philips dacs in Cd players, soetimes I read it's too bright.
Any thought on how someone that fears brightness might percieve it?


----------



## tunes (Aug 3, 2017)

Still can decide which amp to get. 
Anyone have a chance to compare the Wells Audio Milo Headphone Amplifier with the Vioelectric V281 and Macintosh MHA 100??

The Macintosh can drive speakers so if I decide one day to get small powered monitors or efficient horn speakers, this would be versatile.  I was also curious about the amps that have dual SE outputs for simultaneously driving two headphones like the Milo or Vioelectric.   How does one adjust the volume with two different headphones with very different impedances?   I always wanted my wife to be able to listen with me at times.


----------



## tunes (Aug 3, 2017)

Sorry about duplicate post


----------



## fixated

tunes said:


> Still can decide which amp to get.
> Anyone have a chance to compare the Wells Audio Milo Headphone Amplifier with the Vioelectric V281 and Macintosh MHA 100??
> 
> The Macintosh can drive speakers so if I decide one day to get small powered monitors or efficient horn speakers, this would be versatile.  I was also curious about the amps that have dual SE outputs for simultaneously driving two headphones like the Milo or Vioelectric.   How does one adjust the volume with two different headphones with very different impedances?   I always wanted my wife to be able to listen with me at times.



For the V281, you only have the single volume knob to adjust the volume during usage for both the SEs and Balanced headphone outs. So I wouldn't call it great when using different pairs of headphones with different impedance, or at least you're going to have a difficult time finding the optimal volume so that both are within a comfortable listening volume. I haven't tried the other amps you've listed though, so I can't give any input on them.


----------



## project86

phase0 said:


> Also just in general does anyone have any thoughts about the integrated DACs available for the V281? I've thought about getting it sometimes as a convenience and backup option but I already have the Yggy and that might just be throwing money away..



It's pretty decent for such an affordable little add-on DAC. Nothing fancy, it won't blow away a dedicated device, but it's not terrible either. I prefer it to some of the older HRT Music Streamer devices I used to have, which sold for a couple hundred dollars when new. That's the level of performance we're talking about - is it better to just grab an affordable iFi DAC? Maybe, maybe not.


----------



## zek4u

tunes said:


> Still can decide which amp to get.
> Anyone have a chance to compare the Wells Audio Milo Headphone Amplifier with the Vioelectric V281 and Macintosh MHA 100??
> 
> The Macintosh can drive speakers so if I decide one day to get small powered monitors or efficient horn speakers, this would be versatile.  I was also curious about the amps that have dual SE outputs for simultaneously driving two headphones like the Milo or Vioelectric.   How does one adjust the volume with two different headphones with very different impedances?   I always wanted my wife to be able to listen with me at times.



Sold my McIntosh MHA100 for an Ayre Codex. Could never get my DSD files to play right with their internal dac when converting to PCM. Also would have to reset my microRendu every time I shut off the MHA100 or maybe it was when I switched between DSD and PCM files. Would just lock up. I bet the microRendu hardware update or an ultraRendu would solve that issue. The biggest problem was the dac. My Chord 2qute just sounded so much better when hooked up the MHA100. Thought about upgrading to the MHA150 for DSD capabilities but was told the software/dac was basically the same in terms of sound and I could still have the microRendu issues. Just couldn't deal with my 2qute being better, the resetting of of my microRendu or the fact I wasn't using the internal dac when using the 2qute. Moved on to an Ayre Codex for my HD800S headphones.  More punch and was alive but the V280 was even better! Less grunge and more resolution. Wow!  Now moving to either a V281 or a BMC Ultradac because I want balanced outputs. 

Anyone compare their existing DACs to a Hugo 2 when paired with a V280/V281?  I'm between a used Invicta Mirus, Mytek Brooklyn, Chord Hugo TT or Hugo 2. Also want to research the VERITAS. Sorry, the Mojo, Codex and Yggy run too hot for my tastes. 

Also wondering about good balanced interconnects. I'm a big fan of Chord Company's Anthem 2. Think my Signature USB is much better then the Wireworld Starlite Platinum 7 it replaced so I'm tempted with either a balanced Anthem 2 or splurge on a Signature Tuned Array or save some bucks and go Blue Jean or Mogami.


----------



## fixated

zek4u said:


> Anyone compare their existing DACs to a Hugo 2 when paired with a V280/V281?  I'm between a used Invicta Mirus, Mytek Brooklyn, Chord Hugo TT or Hugo 2. Also want to research the VERITAS. Sorry, the Mojo, Codex and Yggy run too hot for my tastes.



Can't say anything about the Hugo 2 but I do have the Hugo TT that's feeding my V281 through its balanced out. I had upgraded from the RS-06 which I loved for its sound signature but I ultimately sold because I found it wasn't resolving enough when compared to the Hugo TT. I would go for the used Hugo TT instead of the Hugo 2 for a few reasons, (1) it has balanced XLR out (which I thought was a better choice of inputs for the V281), and (2) the Hugo TT itself is more or less built to be used in a desktop setting as opposed to the Hugo 2 which is more geared for transportable purposes.

I'm not commenting on any sound differences as I have not tried the other DACs that you've mentioned and I'm just going off their given features.


----------



## project86

Regarding balanced cables - I'm _highly _satisfied using the BetterCables Blue Truth II XLR interconnects. They are relatively affordable, especially compared to many others I've used for much more $$$, but are good enough to serve in my ~$20K system. BetterCables is a no-nonsense firm who makes excellent stuff at real-world prices. They aren't all that well known but have been around for ages. 

I also recommend Cabledyne and C3 Audio for excellent cables that don't break the bank - I use these around the house as well, and am very pleased with the results. 

As someone who has spent far too much over the years, buying the big name brands, I definitely suggest you try some of these out before overspending on something else.


----------



## Svatopluk

phase0 said:


> So any rough first impressions of Susvara on the V281? I haven't been too interested in it as it's just too expensive for me to care and I like what I have already. (Even if Susvara was clearly the best HP ever I still wouldn't buy it but we still like to compare and imagine...)
> 
> Also just in general does anyone have any thoughts about the integrated DACs available for the V281? I've thought about getting it sometimes as a convenience and backup option but I already have the Yggy and that might just be throwing money away..


If you already have the V281 and Utopia you should be good to go for a long time. Pay no attention to pricey new planar headphones, diminishing returns will be involved.


----------



## zek4u

Chord TT over balanced seems like the way to go. I just wonder how much better it will be over my 2Qute. Everything in my chain is pretty good: dedicated circuit, power conditioning, etc. Do think my 2Qute is getting close to TT performance with the Anthem 2 interconnect and MCRU power supply which also grounds the 2Qute. The ground supposedly gives you a big increase in performance according to MCRU. FYI, a PSU on a 2Qute is not supported by Chord! Guess the big advantage will be balanced, more space between the performers but will a piano really start sounding like a piano without everything else being etched. Will I get a larger sense of sound stage width and depth out of my HD800S headphones while retaining what I already love about the V280. The Yggy was pretty amazing in that regard but I don't have the tabletop real estate and can't handle the heat.  Also assume I'll have to upgrade my microRendu so that it doesn't lock up every time the TT is powered down. Maybe the TT can be left on all the time without killing its internal battery or degrade the sound when it starts recharging. I've owned the 2Qute three times now so I can't but think I should move on. Sorry, can't afford a Dave. 

I'll definitely look into the BetterCables Blue Truth II, Cabledyne and C3 Audio XLR cables. I think having everything cabled with Chord Company Signature Tuned array would be cool but you are right project86, is it necessary. That will be my final step. Evaluate a few options and this is after I compare a Audioquest Niaga to my Audience AR1p power conditioner. Maybe I should even upgrade to an ultraRendu before doing my headphone amp/DAC comparisons. From the review on DAR, probably so.


----------



## JacquesDewitt

Hello, again in this post.
Unfortunately where I live there is no way to test equipment for which appeal to import. Reading various review and comments, I decided to go for v281, but still I decide not to the dac.
I thought about going by yggdrasil but by the reviews that highlight his holographic and analog sound I think that would not be my taste and not think left connected for 24 hrs.
So the following would be V850, would have another option of similar price? (up to 2500)

Best regards


----------



## zek4u

JacquesDewitt said:


> Hello, again in this post.
> Unfortunately where I live there is no way to test equipment for which appeal to import. Reading various review and comments, I decided to go for v281, but still I decide not to the dac.
> I thought about going by yggdrasil but by the reviews that highlight his holographic and analog sound I think that would not be my taste and not think left connected for 24 hrs.
> So the following would be V850, would have another option of similar price? (up to 2500)
> ...


Think I would try a V850 or a RS06 if it wasn't for the loss of DSD functionality. I have too many ripped SACDs and am starting to rip vinyl in DSD format. I'll start that A2D conversation later. Just think a microRendu/ultraRendu wouldn't keep up well with the on the fly DSD to PCM conversion.


----------



## phase0

AppleheadMay said:


> How's the Yggy by the way?
> Sometimes I read that it's one of the best dacs out there, reminiscent of the old Philips dacs in Cd players, soetimes I read it's too bright.
> Any thought on how someone that fears brightness might percieve it?



Yggy is the best DAC I've heard. I'm comparing against things like Mytek which has an ESS Sabre chip in it. I felt like the ESS chip had some treble issues (people say there is some kind of glare with delta sigma). For me the Yggy is clear but not too bright, and it resolved the fatigue I got from the Mytek DAC. When I originally got my Mytek I was just blown away as it was a huge step up from lower end. The leap to the Yggy was less profound but still noticeable and appreciated. It felt like it removed some harshness, even more detailed/revealing, and maybe a little more spatially precise w/ imaging.


----------



## zek4u (Aug 3, 2017)

Had a Mytek Stereo 192 running off the SOtM card FireWire in my CAPs server years ago. It killed the Benchmark DAC1 but was replaced by a Concero HD then a Naim DAC-V1. Recently compared that V1 to my 2qute and it's amazing how fast technology is changing.

I see you had the 192. My friend's Brooklyn is pretty amazing and it seems like there are many Brooklyn/V281 fans on this thread


----------



## fixated

zek4u said:


> Chord TT over balanced seems like the way to go. I just wonder how much better it will be over my 2Qute. Everything in my chain is pretty good: dedicated circuit, power conditioning, etc. Do think my 2Qute is getting close to TT performance with the Anthem 2 interconnect and MCRU power supply which also grounds the 2Qute. The ground supposedly gives you a big increase in performance according to MCRU. FYI, a PSU on a 2Qute is not supported by Chord! Guess the big advantage will be balanced, more space between the performers but will a piano really start sounding like a piano without everything else being etched. Will I get a larger sense of sound stage width and depth out of my HD800S headphones while retaining what I already love about the V280. The Yggy was pretty amazing in that regard but I don't have the tabletop real estate and can't handle the heat.  Also assume I'll have to upgrade my microRendu so that it doesn't lock up every time the TT is powered down. Maybe the TT can be left on all the time without killing its internal battery or degrade the sound when it starts recharging. I've owned the 2Qute three times now so I can't but think I should move on. Sorry, can't afford a Dave.
> 
> I'll definitely look into the BetterCables Blue Truth II, Cabledyne and C3 Audio XLR cables. I think having everything cabled with Chord Company Signature Tuned array would be cool but you are right project86, is it necessary. That will be my final step. Evaluate a few options and this is after I compare a Audioquest Niaga to my Audience AR1p power conditioner. Maybe I should even upgrade to an ultraRendu before doing my headphone amp/DAC comparisons. From the review on DAR, probably so.



Not sure how the 2Qute sounds but it not having any RCA outs was a bummer for me when I originally considered it, and not being able to change the Line Level volume. I guess an advantage of the Hugo TT over the 2qute is just that, I can adjust the volume of the DAC itself which gives me more flexibility when feeding it to the V281.


----------



## tunes (Aug 4, 2017)

See next


----------



## tunes

So what is the purpose of having two separate headphone jacks if you need two identical headphones to drive using a single volume control. This makes no sense whatsoever as most people want to hear two different headphones.[/QUOTE]


----------



## fixated

tunes said:


> So what is the purpose of having two separate headphone jacks if you need two identical headphones to drive using a single volume control. This makes no sense whatsoever as most people want to hear two different headphones.


[/QUOTE]

I have to somewhat agree with you're sentiment but it might be based on your usage, as I primarily use the V281 for the balanced out since it's what you're really buying the V281 for (if your using it for headphones at least). I wouldn't say it is impossible to use two different headphones, I'm simply stating that it can be challenging to use them at the same time but once you get the volumes at a comfortable level then I would think its not too bad. I'd let other people chime in on this as they might have used the SE output simultaneously and have gotten better results.


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## project86

I listen with my 5 year old using the dual headphone jacks on a regular basis. 

Some people are not as demanding with their preferred volume level - as long as it's not blasting, or whisper-quiet, it's fine for many listeners. You just have to somewhat match headphones a little. So I'll do HD800 and HD650, for example, and volume works out just fine. I wouldn't do an AKT5P plus an HE6 though, as that would obviously product extreme volume differences.


----------



## Pharmaboy

project86 said:


> I listen with my 5 year old using the dual headphone jacks on a regular basis.
> 
> Some people are not as demanding with their preferred volume level - as long as it's not blasting, or whisper-quiet, it's fine for many listeners. You just have to somewhat match headphones a little. So I'll do HD800 and HD650, for example, and volume works out just fine. I wouldn't do an AKT5P plus an HE6 though, as that would obviously product extreme volume differences.



That sounds like an excellent "dad" move.

If you don't mind my asking, what music/content do you listen to w/your 5 yr old? What do 5 yr olds like?

When I was 5 I was crazy for any music I managed to hear...indiscriminate, but also very passionate about it.


----------



## project86

My little guy likes anything with rhythm that he can feel. Loves funk like Gap Band, Ohio Players, etc. Loves Thriller. One of his recent favorites is Royksopp/Robyn's EP "Do It Again" - specifically the tracks Monument and Every Little Thing (which he has named the "Fighting Song", not sure why). Note that a few tracks on that release are not so kid friendly, but those two are fine. He's scared of dynamic orchestral works but likes "ballet music" which is almost anything that sounds light and happy. 

My 8 year old girl is a big fan of Twenty One Pilots. Also loves pop/electro such as LIGHTS, CHVRCHES, BT's Electronic Opus, Foxes, and Chairlift. She doesn't typically like rock very much but I've got her digging Pinback's Summer in Abaddon. It's a start. 

My 12 year old son is probably the most diverse. He likes most of what his sister and little bro enjoy, plus some metal/hardcore - Meshuggah, Animals As Leaders, Narcissus, Spoken, Project 86. Other favorites of his are Purity Ring, Mutemath, Rameses B, Kye Kye, Crystal Castles, Yellowcard, Moleman, Lindsey Stirling, All American Rejects, Lecrae, and Aesop Rock. Gotta be careful with some of these bands but typically you can find at least _some _albums or tracks that aren't too bad for someone his age. 

The key, I think, is just exposing them to a bunch of genres... not as a chore, just music I like and want to listen to anyway. We listen in the car, listen on headphones, and play it on the big system when mom's not home (dance party!). Then we discuss what they like and why, or sometimes what the lyrics are about with the older ones. 

I grew up listening to classic rock and jazz almost every day and I want to give them all that and more. Funny thing is, they don't really like those two genres.... but I'm working on it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

project86 said:


> My little guy likes anything with rhythm that he can feel. Loves funk like Gap Band, Ohio Players, etc. Loves Thriller. One of his recent favorites is Royksopp/Robyn's EP "Do It Again" - specifically the tracks Monument and Every Little Thing (which he has named the "Fighting Song", not sure why). Note that a few tracks on that release are not so kid friendly, but those two are fine. He's scared of dynamic orchestral works but likes "ballet music" which is almost anything that sounds light and happy.
> 
> My 8 year old girl is a big fan of Twenty One Pilots. Also loves pop/electro such as LIGHTS, CHVRCHES, BT's Electronic Opus, Foxes, and Chairlift. She doesn't typically like rock very much but I've got her digging Pinback's Summer in Abaddon. It's a start.
> 
> ...



Wow! I'm impressed. Your kids have quite a range of musical tastes (don't know many of the names/groups listed, but I can get the drift). 

Most parents are inclined to expose their children to various "activities," including sports, dance, play stuff. But what you're doing IMO is just as valuable. Knowing music & appreciating it in different contexts is right up there with reading for brain development and a more rounded awareness of the world of cultural things.

Classic rock tends to be era-specific (not always, but often), thus may take longer for them to "get." Jazz is a different matter. I found it to be like learning a certain swimming stroke: at first you have no idea what's happening--then once you find you way in, start getting it, it's as if you've always known. Jazz is complicated (but in a good way!).


----------



## project86

Yeah sometimes I still feel like I'm struggling to break in to jazz... despite listening to it for many years.


----------



## PleasantSounds

tunes said:


> So what is the purpose of having two separate headphone jacks if you need two identical headphones to drive using a single volume control. This makes no sense whatsoever as most people want to hear two different headphones.



Not all balanced headphones have the 4-pin XLR connector: some have 2x 3-pin XLR, some also 2x TRS. 
The V281 can be reconfigured through internal jumper to use the two TRS sockets to output balanced signal. This just adds to the flexibility.


----------



## zek4u

project86 said:


> Regarding balanced cables - I'm _highly _satisfied using the BetterCables Blue Truth II XLR interconnects. They are relatively affordable, especially compared to many others I've used for much more $$$, but are good enough to serve in my ~$20K system. BetterCables is a no-nonsense firm who makes excellent stuff at real-world prices. They aren't all that well known but have been around for ages.
> 
> I also recommend Cabledyne and C3 Audio for excellent cables that don't break the bank - I use these around the house as well, and am very pleased with the results.
> 
> As someone who has spent far too much over the years, buying the big name brands, I definitely suggest you try some of these out before overspending on something else.



project86: So many less expensive options out there. I want one that is a giant killer    Need a 40' run between my Headphone AMP/DAC to power amp. Yeah, I could run down to Guitar Center and get a 50 footer. Blue Jeans Cable Belden 1800F with Neutrik NC3-B series XLR connectors also look interesting. They all seem to be around the same price.  Right now, I'm amazed with cheap $10 1/4" to RCA adapter to Anthem 2 coming out of the V280 straight to a Proceed AMP2 then to Magnepan MMGs. Listening now to vinyl rip now of a MOFI Sinatra at the Sands you said you loved. Wow!

Some of my new favorites you or your kiddos might like: Sylvan Esso, Maggie Rogers, TV on the Radio, The XX, Glass Animals, Miike Snow, Spoon, BØRNS, Jamie xx. 

phase0 - JacquesDewitt: Who knows, maybe I should try another Yggy. Forget about it getting so hot I could fry an egg on the thing. Okay, know I'm being a bit extreme. They say the Yggy and Codex are designed that way but that stupid OCD part of me still worries about long term reliability. I'm just such a Chord fan. Just sounds so liquid, analog. That piano I just heard in Jacintha's Moon River sure did sound like a real piano. 

lonerboy13: Didn't have a hard time matching the gain between the 2Qute and the V280. Need to write down the gain anyway so I can set the V281 to the same settings. Looks like it set to -6. Actually not knowing the exact level the TTs volume is set to scares me. It accidental moving to a different setting. Would assume you could set the balanced out on the TT to a static/set setting. Maybe not. My 2Qute/MCRU is just so good. Maybe I'll need to move beyond a TT to really improve things or maybe just the move to balanced on a v281 will be huge.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Well, I ended up finding a used v280 for $850 on ebay.  Just received -- very happy. Paired w/ my modded Sonica DAC, I've got an end-game home unit -- for now anyway 

I suppose I'll go nuts looking for a headphone upgrade, although I can't imagine what I'll have to spend to get a significant upgrade to my HE-560s.  I'll probably hold fast until my Massdrop 6xx arrive in December. I'm not expecting them to be an upgrade, but rather a 'side-grade'.  But then I'll have 2 well known and widely reviewed/compared sets to use as a basis for judging other possibilities.

I guess it's time to try to get to some meet-ups and listen to some other rigs.I missed the Portland meet-up this spring.


----------



## zek4u

Great deal on the V280! I paid $1100 for mine used and just sold it for a v281. Really loved my V280/Chord 2Qute combo with HD800S headphones. Just hope they sound as good when the V281 arrives. Hope to try my V281 with a Chord Dave and a Mytek Brooklyn soon.


----------



## lcasadonte

That sounds like a nice combination zek4u!


----------



## fixated

zek4u said:


> Great deal on the V280! I paid $1100 for mine used and just sold it for a v281. Really loved my V280/Chord 2Qute combo with HD800S headphones. Just hope they sound as good when the V281 arrives. Hope to try my V281 with a Chord Dave and a Mytek Brooklyn soon.



Wow! That's a great deal, bought mine brand new but don't regret the purchase even if I had to pay premium for the price. Haven't tried a v281 with the DAVE as the store that I've auditioned it had run out of V281s (yeah, its really popular here, even the demo unit was sold), I do currently use my V281 with the Hugo TT and that's a blast of a combo. Adds some sound stage as well as reduces some of the peaks I get from my Hugo TT (I do consider myself as sometimes sensitive to treble) and adds some body to the sound, overall the V281 made my Hugo TT more enjoyable for me. I can't imagine how breathtaking the DAVE would be with an amp such as the V281!


----------



## LCMusicLover

Up reeeeaaaallllly late listening to my new rig.  v280 fed by my modded Sonica (which arrived today), takes my 560s to a new level.  Bass is so deep it actually seems visceral, as if listening to speakers. I know it's not really creating a physical sensation, but it's fooling my brain.

I honestly feared that I wouldn't find that much of a difference vs my x5iii/Algorhythm Duet portable rig or the Sonica with my Matrix. Fears laid to rest 

Also highlights differences between my 560s and m1060s.

Couple example tracks: 

'Primitive' off Annie Lennox' Diva -- lots of very deep bass which neither overwhelms nor hides behind the vocals
'Hard Sun' by Eddie Vedder off  Into the Wild soundtrack -- very busy track with lots of bass, but also clangy guitar, and everything in between. All present in great balance.
'Beneath a Phrygian Sky' from Loreena McKennit's An Ancient Muse -- just gorgeous with a substantial bass underpinning I never really heard before.

In all, system is wonderfully detailed and revealing, yet very musical.


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## zek4u (Aug 11, 2017)

I remember the premiums and limited selection of high end watches when I was in the Philippines.

My cousin's Chord Blu Mk. 2 is also about to arrive. He's been off the media server kick for a while and has been exclusively listening to CDs. A lot of XRCDs. I stepped out of the Chord Demo when what I believe the Chord gang switched the Blu Mk. 2 to some kind of upsampling mode. Cousin said the Blu Mk. 2 with the Dave was unreal but in that mode, it completely shocked him. Sound stage grew, space between performers, all that stuff. I might take my 2Qute/HD800S/V281 with me when I visit him in a few weeks. Start with a 2Qute/MCRU, move to a Dave then Blu Mk. 2. Also might compare my Audience power conditioner to his AQ Niagra 1000. Wish I had a Hugo TT to add to the mix.


----------



## Gozi

Hi there my name is  alex  and  i am absolute newbie  in using headphones  and  amps  ,  
and   please forgive my bad english , i am from austria .
Over  the  years  i have   used  loudspeakers  and   amp  and  cd  player  and so   but  i am falling  in love  with  headphones  by now    and  have  selled   all my  other  stuff loudpeakers   and  so .  

I have a question about  the  v281  

i own it for 2 weeks now  and   i enjoy  it   with  every  minute  i can listen to  them  the  build  quality  and  the  sound  are  awsome 

my  chain is    pc-t+a dac 8-violectric v 281 -   sennheiser hd 800 (balanced) 

i have got as  a present  a akg k 812     which i also like  very much  in sound 


the question is    how  should i set  the  pregain  settings   for  optimal performance 

with  the sennheiser  hd  800   i think   0 db    is   ok ?

with  the  akg k812   i am not  shure     0 db   or   -6  db    or  + 6    ??


or  is  the  pregain settings  only how  loud  the  headphone  will go  with  volumeknob   ??

i think i read  somewhere    the  pregain  should  be  set  so  that   the  volume is   good  at  12  o clock  high  or  something  near .


and  maybe  i  sell my  t+a dac  8     and  buy  another  one    if  is  a  better  out  there   foir  my  violectric  281   any tips   someone  can give  me ??   Price  shoulkd  be  arroound  max   2000.-  euro   better  less 


thank  you  for  your   time  and  tips

Greats

Alex/Gozi


----------



## zhgutov

Gozi said:


> the question is    how  should i set  the  pregain  settings   for  optimal performance
> 
> or  is  the  pregain settings  only how  loud  the  headphone  will go  with  volumeknob   ??
> 
> i think i read  somewhere    the  pregain  should  be  set  so  that   the  volume is   good  at  12  o clock  high  or  something  near .



There is recommendation about that at the first page of this thread:


> Recently we have seen many posts relating to the *recommended gain settings* for specific headphones, and the recommendations vary quite wildly. It is important to realise that there's no one universal setting that will suit everyone, as there are several more variables that impact it, e.g.:
> - strength of the input signal
> - listening volume preference
> 
> ...


----------



## fixated

Gozi said:


> Hi there my name is  alex  and  i am absolute newbie  in using headphones  and  amps  ,
> and   please forgive my bad english , i am from austria .
> Over  the  years  i have   used  loudspeakers  and   amp  and  cd  player  and so   but  i am falling  in love  with  headphones  by now    and  have  selled   all my  other  stuff loudpeakers   and  so .
> 
> I have a question about  the  v281



Welcome Alex! Don't worry about your english as people here aren't picky about it. 

In any case having fiddled around with my V281 before to find the "best" pre-gain setting for my previous DAC(Lake People RS-06) and my current DAC (Hugo TT), I've ended up with just sticking with the -6 db gain. The main reason is that the Line Level output for the Hugo TT is plenty loud when using 0 db and I can't get the volume just "right" because a single step would go from being too soft to too loud. So the trick is to find the pre-gain setting that allows you to fine tune the volume to your liking.

Now I'm not sure how high the Line Level volume for your DAC is but I would suggest trying out all the pre-gain settings first on the V281 and deciding which pre-gain setting helps you get that "perfect" volume setting for which headphone or IEM you're going to use on the V281. Sometimes I even go -14 db on the pre-gain when I'm using IEMs with my v281 since I wouldn't need the insane amount of power the v281 can dish out.


----------



## Gozi (Aug 20, 2017)

@zhgutov AND IONERBOY13

Thanks a lot  for  you  reply  very  helpful , i set the pregain now  to -6db  and  i think it fits perfekt 

Any  recomentions  for  a  new dac  maybe   the  violectric 850  ? i want very good  details and bass  and great soundstage  with  a big room  and depth so  like 3d    if this is  possibly with changing  the dac ?  or  is there no  change  how different  dacs  sounds?

Greetings to all
Alex/Gozi


----------



## Pharmaboy

Gozi said:


> Hi there my name is  alex  and  i am absolute newbie  in using headphones  and  amps  ,
> and   please forgive my bad english , i am from austria .
> Over  the  years  i have   used  loudspeakers  and   amp  and  cd  player  and so   but  i am falling  in love  with  headphones  by now    and  have  selled   all my  other  stuff loudpeakers   and  so .
> 
> ...



Different people have different ideas of the ideal gain settings for the V281. For me, it was -14 dB on the external jumpers and -12 on the internal jumpers. I use the V281 as a line stage (controlling speakers + sub), in addition to headphone listening.

The objective of raising or lowering gain is to get the effective range of the volume control closer to the center of the volume dial. For example, compared to a clockface, my volume setting were all between 7:30 (low volume listening) and ~9:00 (high volume listening) before lowering gain. That meant I had relatively few volme "steps" to control soft- to loud-volume; plus all my volume was in the bottom 25% of the dial.

I found it better to lower overall gain. After that, my listening is all ~9:00 to 12:00. My planar headphones are higher up in that range (because they take a lot of power to get the same volume as dynamic designs); and my low-impedance dynamic headphones are lower in that range. This is a good thing, since volume pots generally sound better with less resistance in line (ie, higher up the dial), Plus in my case, I got more volume steps to work with once gain was lower.


----------



## fixated

Gozi said:


> @zhgutov AND IONERBOY13
> 
> Thanks a lot  for  you  reply  very  helpful , i set the pregain now  to -6db  and  i think it fits perfekt
> 
> ...



Different DACs definitely have different sounds. Haven't had the chance to hearing the v850 as there are no demo units in my local audio shop but I did have the RS-06 before which from what I've read was close to the v850 sound with less frills. I always found the violectric house sound to be somewhat close to neutral but leaning a little to the darker side with good soundstage, but I wouldn't say it has incredible detail retrieval, it sounds more natural than hyper realistic in terms of detail retrieval if I had to describe it.

I would let others suggest DACs that they've tried with the V281 but if you have a local audio shop that allows you to demo different DACs you should definitely demo them first, that will give you the feel for which DAC would be suited to your liking.


----------



## Slow_aetk

Gozi said:


> and  maybe  i  sell my  t+a dac  8     and  buy  another  one    if  is  a  better  out  there   foir  my  violectric  281   any tips   someone  can give  me ??   Price  shoulkd  be  arroound  max   2000.-  euro   better  less
> 
> 
> 
> Alex/Gozi



The Denafrips Ares R2R DAC is very good for the price (around $650).


----------



## zek4u

Gozi said:


> Hi there my name is  alex  and  i am absolute newbie  in using headphones  and  amps  ,
> and   please forgive my bad english , i am from austria .
> Over  the  years  i have   used  loudspeakers  and   amp  and  cd  player  and so   but  i am falling  in love  with  headphones  by now    and  have  selled   all my  other  stuff loudpeakers   and  so .
> 
> ...



Have my V281 set to -6. Seems about the perfect gain for my Chord 2Qute playing on HD800S headphones.


----------



## zek4u (Aug 22, 2017)

Sold the V280 and have had my V281 since Friday. Wow! Maybe it lost the tiniest amount of warmth but it seems a bit more cohesive in the bass and maybe I'm hearing a little more resolution, more texture. Just more solid. Bigger transformer?  It also really shines running balanced to an amplifier for my Magnepans. I'm done. I'm not even going to upgrade my Chord 2Qute/MCRU.

Think I'm going to upgrade my MMGs to some .7s. Steve Guttenberg really liked the .7s with the PS Audio Stellar S300. V281 balanced to the S300. Hummmm. Wish I could afford some active ATCs. Am sure that would be a winning combo with the V281.  Guess it never really stops.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zek4u said:


> Sold the V280 and have had my V281 since Friday. Wow! Maybe it lost the tiniest amount of warmth but it seems a bit more cohesive in the bass and maybe I'm hearing a little more resolution, more texture. Just more solid. Bigger transformer?  It also really shines running balanced to an amplifier for my Magnepans. I'm done. I'm not even going to upgrade my Chord 2Qute/MCRU.
> 
> Think I'm going to upgrade my MMGs to some .7s. Steve Guttenberg really liked the .7s with the Stellar S300. V281 balanced to the S300. Hummmm. Wish I could afford some active ATCs. Am sure that would be a winning combo with the V281.  Guess it never really stops.



Interesting post. IMO the V281 is the most dynamic, bass-competent preamp I've ever used in the desktop system. I no longer have a big living room system, but it would be quite interested to try the V281 as a preamp in such a system.

Using it as a preamp, I hear so much resolution, soundstaging, and bass--yet it's not accompanied by exaggerated transients or big frequency dips/spikes. It's the best bass I ever heard from my speakers. And yes, the balanced output is really fine-sounding. To use it, I temporarily abandoned use of my subwoofer (SVS SB-1000), and ran the Zenpro modded Yamaha HS7s directly from the balanced outputs of the V281. The result was the best sound I've heard from these monitors--good resolution, frequency balance, plenty of subtle ambient cues. Excellent bass, too.


----------



## zek4u (Aug 23, 2017)

Have had many pairs of Harbeth P3ESRs in the past....too many and crazy me, I'm going to get one more set just to see how good they sound using the V281 running balanced to an old Proceed AMP2 amplifier. Maybe I should have just gotten a pair of active monitors but don't have a lot of desk space and want to avoid stands behind the desk. In the past, thought a Benchmark DAC2 HGC lost a bit of character/soul when hooked straight to a Croft 7 RS amplifier. Based on what I hear out of my Magnepan MMGs and what others have said, this is not the case when using a V281 as a pre-amplifier for a 2 channel system. It sounds like a true high performance active preamp.

Anyone pair Harbeth with Violectric? Amp suggestions?  I really liked the Belles Aria integrated I had last. Maybe Bellles makes a straight Aria amplifier now. Don't think Harbeth plays nice with class D amplifiers. Think I want to stay away from tubes.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zek4u said:


> Have had many pairs of Harbeth P3ESRs in the past....too many and crazy me, I'm going to get one more set just to see how good they sound using the V281 running balanced to an old Proceed AMP2 amplifier. Maybe I should have just gotten a pair of active monitors but don't have a lot of desk space and want to avoid stands behind the desk. In the past, thought a Benchmark DAC2 HGC lost a bit of character/soul when hooked straight to a Croft 7 RS amplifier. Based on what I hear out of my Magnepan MMGs and what others have said, this is not the case when using a V281 as a pre-amplifier for a 2 channel system. It sounds like a true high performance active preamp.
> 
> Anyone pair Harbeth with Violectric? Amp suggestions?  I really liked the Belles Aria integrated I had last. Maybe Bellles makes a straight Aria amplifier now. Don't think Harbeth plays nice with class D amplifiers. Think I want to stay away from tubes.



Very interesting. I'm so interested in Harbeths. Can't fit an amp anywhere in my desktop environment, so only seriously considered powered desktop/speaker monitors (have had 3 such systems in past 20 yrs or so). But there are certainly issues w/powered monitors used for audio enjoyment. It's safe to say none of them, except possibly the ATCs (too large & too expensive for my application--but fascinating) are actually voiced for music listening/appreciation. Power monitors tend to have a forensic listening objective, leading to elevated midrange and/or treble.

Every review I've ever read about any Harbeth model comments quite specifically on their "natural" sound. That is very interesting to me. Wish I could use them in my system...


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## zek4u (Aug 23, 2017)

Pharmaboy said:


> Very interesting. I'm so interested in Harbeths. Can't fit an amp anywhere in my desktop environment, so only seriously considered powered desktop/speaker monitors (have had 3 such systems in past 20 yrs or so). But there are certainly issues w/powered monitors used for audio enjoyment. It's safe to say none of them, except possibly the ATCs (too large & too expensive for my application--but fascinating) are actually voiced for music listening/appreciation. Power monitors tend to have a forensic listening objective, leading to elevated midrange and/or treble.
> 
> Every review I've ever read about any Harbeth model comments quite specifically on their "natural" sound. That is very interesting to me. Wish I could use them in my system...



I'm completely obsessing right now about desktop real estate. Router that look like something out of Aliens. Spectrum modem, 13" printer, CAPs server, my cool Nakamichi I just found for $25, turntable. All the power supplies. Just ordered another walnut cutting board to protect my fabricated wood desk from any kind of heat coming off the V281. Already have some IsoAcoustics stands I'll use for now until I find something better. I'm probably going to need another audio rack since I sold the last Quadraspire.  I'll keep you posted on how well the P3s pair with V281. Nothing analytical for me. I had 30.1s at one point on stands behind the desk. Now that looked crazy and I'm not a recording engineer.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zek4u said:


> I'm completely obsessing right now about desktop real estate. Router that look like something out of Aliens. Spectrum modem, 13" printer, CAPs server, my cool Nakamichi I just found for $25, turntable. All the power supplies. Just ordered another walnut cutting board to protect my fabricated wood desk from any kind of heat coming off the V281. Already have some IsoAcoustics stands I'll use for now until I find something better. I'm probably going to need another audio rack since I sold the last Quadraspire.  I'll keep you posted on how well the P3s pair with V281. Nothing analytical for me. I had 30.1s at one point on stands behind the desk. Now that looked crazy and I'm not a recording engineer.



Our respective details differ quite a lot--but the common thread is "desktop real estate." I had so many devices crowded onto a small side table that it became impossible to add another amp (I have 5 headphone amps/preamps, and 3 are wired in on that side-table to the desktop at any time).

I ended up building 2 small tables that allowed me to "go vertical" by adding devices on top of, or below, others. For example, the V281 now stands above the Audio GD SA-31SE.

Love that V281, but sooner or later I'll have to have the big motorized pot replaced. It tends to jump between steps, with big/uneven volume increases or drops. I doubt it's the remote; think it's the pot. I could rotate the pot by hand just to test whether the cause is the pot vs the remote (tho it's really not convenient to do that in my case)...but I'm reluctant to hand-operate the pot. It strikes me as not a good idea, somehow.


----------



## zhgutov

zek4u said:


> Just ordered another walnut cutting board to protect my fabricated wood desk from any kind of heat coming off the V281.



Heat from V281? O_o


----------



## zek4u

zhgutov said:


> Heat from V281? O_o



The V281 doesn't get too hot but it's definitely warmer then the V280. It's nothing like the Ayre Codex. I have this beautiful wood desk that isn't stained. All it's treated with is a coating of linseed oil and another of beeswax. I just don't want anything making it fade.


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## zek4u (Aug 24, 2017)

Pharmaboy said:


> Our respective details differ quite a lot--but the common thread is "desktop real estate." I had so many devices crowded onto a small side table that it became impossible to add another amp (I have 5 headphone amps/preamps, and 3 are wired in on that side-table to the desktop at any time).
> 
> I ended up building 2 small tables that allowed me to "go vertical" by adding devices on top of, or below, others. For example, the V281 now stands above the Audio GD SA-31SE.
> 
> Love that V281, but sooner or later I'll have to have the big motorized pot replaced. It tends to jump between steps, with big/uneven volume increases or drops. I doubt it's the remote; think it's the pot. I could rotate the pot by hand just to test whether the cause is the pot vs the remote (tho it's really not convenient to do that in my case)...but I'm reluctant to hand-operate the pot. It strikes me as not a good idea, somehow.



I've also got my grandparents old book case that I also have a reel to reel sitting on and a record cleaner. Would love to go digital only minimalist to save real estate but I've been having fun digitizing records to DSD files. Amazing stuff on the V281. I'll probably just have to pick up another audio stand to tidy things up. I'm sticking with just the one desktop headphone rig and and one portable.

My V281 just has the standard pot. Love the feel of turning that big sexy big pot with its graceful curves, I mean indents.  It's like a V280 but mature. Know it's crazy but it's also one of the main reasons I skipped getting the BMC Ultradac to compare to the V281. I just don't like push button volume controls.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zek4u said:


> I've also got my grandparents old book case that I also have a reel to reel sitting on and a record cleaner. Would love to go digital only minimalist to save real estate but I've been having fun digitizing records to DSD files. Amazing stuff on the V281. I'll probably just have to pick up another audio stand to tidy things up. I'm sticking with just the one desktop headphone rig and and one portable.
> 
> My V281 just has the standard pot. Love the feel of turning that big sexy big pot with its graceful curves, I mean indents.  It's like a V280 but mature. Know it's crazy but it's also one of the main reasons I skipped getting the BMC Ultradac to compare to the V281. I just don't like push button volume controls.



Funny you'd mention push button volume controls. My V281 sits on top of a mini-table I built to place it above the Audio GD SA-31SE amp, which is wider/deeper, but not as tall. Anyway, the SA-31SE uses up/down buttons (same on remote), and when I first got it (used), thought I'd hate it. But I've grown to love that feature. It is far more useful when the SA-31SE is used in preamp mode than just amplifier mode: those push buttons allow me to ultra-precisely dial in the volume of speakers + sub.

This up/down button thing is quite a contrast to the V281 w/motorized 128 stepped pot. I find the remote control actuation of the V281 to be far less precise. In fact, even discrete up/down pushes of the remote's rocker switches cause the V281's pot to "jump steps" (bigger volume decreases or increase than I expect). Even going up or down a single step sometimes causes volume jumps. My V281's pot may be defective.

Anyway, big thumbs up to UP/DOWN buttons for volume.

PS: I have 1 other amp w/a stepped pot, the Lake People G109-A. The pots is very smooth & positive-feeling in use. However, I find that 43 total steps just isn't quite enough, particulalry when driving efficient/low impedance headphones. Great amp--don't mean to single it out for this criticism. Any stepped pot tends to have too few steps, in my experience.


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## zhgutov (Aug 24, 2017)

Pharmaboy said:


> PS: I have 1 other amp w/a stepped pot, the Lake People G109-A. The pots is very smooth & positive-feeling in use.



This pot is not truly stepped like your relay-based pot on V281.
It is like the pot of standard version of the V281 (ALPS RK27 with detents).
You can set intermediate state if you want.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> This pot is not truly stepped like your relay-based pot on V281.
> It is like the pot of standard version of the V281 (ALPS RK27 with detents).
> You can set intermediate state if you want.



There are many different Alps RK27 models. Most are not stepped; 1 is stepped (31 detents). 

Are you saying the non-motorized V281 volome pot has no steps? Just smooth turn of dial to go up/down in volume?


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## zhgutov (Aug 24, 2017)

Pharmaboy said:


> There are many different Alps RK27 models. Most are not stepped; 1 is stepped (31 detents).
> 
> Are you saying the non-motorized V281 volome pot has no steps? Just smooth turn of dial to go up/down in volume?



I have standard non-motorized version with detents (41?). It may be set to the state between detents, but it is smooth.
There is motorized version with the same ALPS RK27, but with no detents. It is smooth in any aspect.
Your version should be smooth RK27 too, but relays switch the resistors, so it is really stepped.

I think that's why you can not set the position exactly via your remote control. It is practically impossible to align smooth RK27.
But in your case the steps itself are most valuable because you can set the level more precisely, so, I think, it does not matter.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> I have standard non-motorized version with detents (41?). It may be set to the state between detents, but it is smooth.
> There is motorized version with the same ALPS RK27, but with no detents. It is smooth in any aspect.
> Your version should be smooth RK27 too, but relays switch the resistors, so it is really stepped.
> 
> ...



OK, I understand. Pots get kind of confusing...

I think your stepped alps pot is the same one used in my Lake People G109-A (Lake People & Violectric are the same)--except mine has a smaller knob (~35mm diameter) than the large knob used for V281.

This stepped pot (regardless of different sized knobs for different amps) has either 41 or 43 actual steps (I never counted). That's usually enough, though w/really efficient, low-impedance headphones, actual volume control (lowest to highest reasonable volume w/that headphone) is confined to ~9-10 steps (a little bit crude for fine volume control w/in that range).


----------



## zhgutov

Pharmaboy said:


> OK, I understand. Pots get kind of confusing...
> 
> I think your stepped alps pot is the same one used in my Lake People G109-A (Lake People & Violectric are the same)--except mine has a smaller knob (~35mm diameter) than the large knob used for V281.
> 
> This stepped pot (regardless of different sized knobs for different amps) has either 41 or 43 actual steps (I never counted). That's usually enough, though w/really efficient, low-impedance headphones, actual volume control (lowest to highest reasonable volume w/that headphone) is confined to ~9-10 steps (a little bit crude for fine volume control w/in that range).



Yes, I think it is the same. I suppose the reason why it is not so easy in LP G109-A is because of smaller knob.
It is easy to set the value between detents with the big knob of V281.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> Yes, I think it is the same. I suppose the reason why it is not so easy in LP G109-A is because of smaller knob.
> It is easy to set the value between detents with the big knob of V281.



I don't understand--how can you set to a value between the steps on that big knob? 

Of course, the mfr can print any number of visual "hashmarks" all around the dial. But if there are just 41 or 43 actual steps in the potentiometer, I don't know of any way to set volume between 1 step and the next step.

?


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## zhgutov (Aug 24, 2017)

Pharmaboy said:


> I don't understand--how can you set to a value between the steps on that big knob?
> 
> Of course, the mfr can print any number of visual "hashmarks" all around the dial. But if there are just 41 or 43 actual steps in the potentiometer, I don't know of any way to set volume between 1 step and the next step.
> 
> ?



This pot is actually smooth. But it has detents. You can turn it for half step for example, and it will be between the detents.
You can try this on your LP amp. This may be tricky in your case, but I believe you can do it.
I had V100 some time ago with the same small knob. With its knob I never tried to set the intermediate state, but it is possible!
Just try to turn it slowly.


----------



## zek4u

My trip to go visit my cousin got delayed a week and I'm still tempted to take my V281/HD800S with me to hook up to his Dave. Friday I'll have my P3ESR speakers to try with my old Proceed AMP2 amplifier and will be getting a little Belles amp to try next week. Also will be comparing Tellurium, Chord Company and Kimber cables with the V281 acting as a preamp. Fun times. I really think a Violectric V281 can be a center piece for a great headphone/2 channel system. I'll know for certain shortly. I've had some very good pre/amps/integrateds in the past with the P3s and think my memory is good (SimAudio, Hegel, Naim, Croft, Rega, Mcintosh, etc).


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## Furch (Sep 3, 2017)

As an owner of V281, she do excellent job no matter headphone are Planar, Dynamic or Balance except Electrostatic.
If it possible I want to have one box solution Violectric Vxxx that can drive any headphone in this world beautifully even Electrostatic headphone. Hope I can listen to her someday in the future.

PS: I'm searching for integrated amplifier that sound similar or identical to V281 for my bookshelf speaker, if anyone ever heard something like that please tell me, thank you in advance.


----------



## stemiki

Tidal HI FI - Metrum Menuet - Violectric V281 volume 128 step relay attenuator (Pre Gain -14 db) Pioneer SE Master1  balanced cable FAW copper     very happy


----------



## zhgutov

Just got the top black unit for that stack.
I expected small difference or no difference at all.
But actually the difference is somehow LARGE.
Much better transparency.
I am surprised by significance of clock generation.


----------



## 13713

What was the deciding factor in the purchase?


zhgutov said:


> Just got the top black unit for that stack.
> I expected small difference or no difference at all.
> But actually the difference is somehow LARGE.
> Much better transparency.
> I am surprised by significance of clock generation.



What was the deciding factor in the purchase?


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## zhgutov (Sep 5, 2017)

13713 said:


> What was the deciding factor in the purchase?



It was intuition partially. And the measurements of V800 on RAA, where jitter is the most visible problem (it is quite small actually).
I had some hesitations about that because in theory ~10 ps jitter (of V800) should not be audible.
But in fact there is something what makes sense. I don't have the corresponding device to measure the difference, unfortunately.

Now I want to "revisit" all my collection of music, because that difference is on every track.
The overall sound signature is the same, but everything is more fast, detailed and deep/transparent.
Seems like I listen to the same track, but at the same time to the different track.
This is the second time I have such wow factor.
The first time was long time ago, when I heard LCD-3 paired with V90 for the first time.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> Just got the top black unit for that stack.
> I expected small difference or no difference at all.
> But actually the difference is somehow LARGE.
> Much better transparency.
> I am surprised by significance of clock generation.



Excuse my ignorance--but what is the top unit?

I know the bottom unit is a V281; and assuming the middle unit is the Violectric DAC.


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## 13713

Pharmaboy said:


> Excuse my ignorance--but what is the top unit?
> 
> I know the bottom unit is a V281; and assuming the middle unit is the Violectric DAC.



Lake People DAT RS 05 femto The middle unit is the V800.


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## zhgutov

Pharmaboy said:


> Excuse my ignorance--but what is the top unit?



This is Lake People DAT RS 05 with femto clock option.


----------



## Badas

zhgutov said:


> This is Lake People DAT RS 05 with femto clock option.



What does it do????


----------



## fixated

Badas said:


> What does it do????



I am interested as well to what it does


----------



## Fegefeuer

Basically it gives you the cleanest, purest, lowest jittery digital signal while also doing important electrical stuff like isolation of the USB etc, thus letting your DAC shine like never before .... What it really does in proper terms is a bit hard to explain for me.
You think these things don't work? Well, they do for me and I'm using a cheap DU-U8 whose performance has also been covered in measurements by the great Bob.


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## zhgutov

Actually, V800 has its own reconstruction circuitry which is activated when the resampling is turned on.
In this case everything depends on the quality of the internal clock generation.

For example, I can feed the signal from MacBook Pro or RS 05 in this mode, and there will be no any audible difference.

But when the resampling is turned off in the DAC, it follows the external clock.
In that case, for example, when I feed the signal from MacBook Pro, the sound becomes thin.

But RS 05 has much better clocks, according to what I hear.


----------



## fdg

*DAT* (*D*igital *A*udio *T*ool) *RS 05* is a unit which is available since middle of 2017.
Basically DAT RS 05 is a sample rate converter with an excellent internal clock base (some pico-seconds phase jitter) or an outstanding internal clock base (some femto-seconds jitter) as an option. 
*Jitter reduction or jitter elimination is the key to perfect digital to analogue conversion.*
And we believe that this can only be done by a sample rate converter, not by asynchronous USB or other more or less “magic” measures.
A sample rate converter will extract the digital audio data from a data stream and recombine it using its own clock source. Afterwards a remaining jitter is only caused by the accuracy of the internal clock.
Assuming a perfect digital source, perfect cables and other perfect circumstances it may be that a sample rate conversion can negatively affect the digital audio data – but in 99,9 % of all cases the internal clock source - notably when it is the optional femto clock of DAT RS 05 - the results will be (much) better.
DAT RS 05 offers 3 digital inputs, balanced via XLR, unbalanced via RCA and optical TOS link.
Further you can chose 1 out of 3 optional USB inputs.
The range of digital outputs is the same as above.
The input sample rate is displayed by LEDs, the output sample rate can be chosen between 44.1 and 192 kHz and is also displayed by LEDs.
Sending the digital audio data through DAT RS 05 will unjitter, resample, reclock it and expand it to 24 Bit length.
Further DAT RS05 can be used to digitally attenuate the digital audio data which can be useful when you want to drive active speakers with digital inputs.
DAT RS 05 also offers a Wordclock (WCLK) in- or output.
When the internal clock source is active, the BNC socket serves as a WCLK source to feed other digital devices.
Doing so, DAT RS 05 can act as a (nearly) perfect house clock !
The BNC socket can also be arranged as an input when “WCLK” is selected as the clock source.
Another option is the remote control of the volume attenuator (motor driven), the input selection and the clock selection.
Drop me an email when you are interested in the manual !

Cheers, Fried Reim


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## FumblingFoo (Sep 6, 2017)

Seems like the RS 05 would be an awesome addendum to my v850 / v281 stack (very beautiful stack btw zhgutov  ). Can't wait to buy the RS 05 probably around thanksgiving or Christmas. The thing is, I can't find it on the USA Violectric website. Will it ever be available here? I tried adding it to cart on the lake people website but couldn't get the cart / website to work, plus I'm not sure how to add the femto clock option because I didn't see a menu for that (simply an add to cart button, which didn't work for me).


----------



## zek4u

or get a better DAC. Wish I had a V850 to compare to my Chord 2Qute. Quickly compared the 2Qute to the XMOS 24/192 card and it only took one swap for me to sell the DAC card. I'm waiting for a something comparable to a Chord Dave with balanced outputs at the old retail price of the 2Qute, $1795. Might be a while right.   My microRendu with external PSU seems to have taken care of any of my jitter/EMI/RFI problems.


----------



## zhgutov

FumblingFoo said:


> The thing is, I can't find it on the USA Violectric website. Will it ever be available here? I tried adding it to cart on the lake people website but couldn't get the cart / website to work, plus I'm not sure how to add the femto clock option because I didn't see a menu for that (simply an add to cart button, which didn't work for me).



I think you can write an e-mail @ synthax.de
They are official distributors of Lake People / Violectric gear.

Or write an e-mail @ lake-people.de
They will forward your request to synthax.de

At least that's how I get this unit in Russia.



zek4u said:


> Quickly compared the 2Qute to the XMOS 24/192 card and it only took one swap for me to sell the DAC card.



Do you mean DAC option for V281? These cards are not as good as standalone DACs like V800.


----------



## ArthurPower

I knew I forgot to do something, add these new products to our USA site! Thank you for the reminder. They shall be available for ordering this week.


----------



## zek4u

zhgutov said:


> I think you can write an e-mail @ synthax.de
> They are official distributors of Lake People / Violectric gear.
> 
> Or write an e-mail @ lake-people.de
> ...



Yes, one of the DAC options for the V281. I know these cards also act as power vampires and having separate toroidal power supplies must be the better option. I was thinking of getting a V800/V850 but I've been doing a lot of DSD and vinyl ripping. Don't think Violectic has added that option and my low power CAPs server/microRendu doesn't really have enough horsepower to do the conversion.


----------



## FumblingFoo (Sep 6, 2017)

zek4u said:


> or get a better DAC. Wish I had a V850 to compare to my Chord 2Qute. Quickly compared the 2Qute to the XMOS 24/192 card and it only took one swap for me to sell the DAC card. I'm waiting for a something comparable to a Chord Dave with balanced outputs at the old retail price of the 2Qute, $1795. Might be a while right.   My microRendu with external PSU seems to have taken care of any of my jitter/EMI/RFI problems.



I really am less familiar with how well the v850 stacks with the competition. Some love the v850; some say cheaper options sound just as good and similarly priced options sound better. Personally, my current Violectric combo beats to hell and back my Fiio Olympus 2 (I can really hear a difference in the sound) and there are otherwise no real problems with the sound (maybe a touch more attack would be more pleasing). I suppose I could opt for a yggdrasil but I don't know if it would be an upgrade, and I would rather wait until they can get at least 24 bits r2r. There's also the Hugo 2 with its extremely impressive impulse response graph, but I think its NOS and it shows on the Hugo 1 with the aliasing graph. So, my best bet now is to stick with what I got and take advantage of the DAT RS 05 femto clock as a virtual upgrade to the v850.



ArthurPower said:


> I knew I forgot to do something, add these new products to our USA site! Thank you for the reminder. They shall be available for ordering this week.



Awesome! I'll try to get the new unit as soon as I can!


Edit: its my choice of headphones that leave me desiring more attack. T90 SE >> HD 600 SE/Balanced in this regard.


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## zhgutov (Sep 7, 2017)

FumblingFoo said:


> I suppose I could opt for a yggdrasil but I don't know if it would be an upgrade, and I would rather wait until they can get at least 24 bits r2r. There's also the Hugo 2 with its extremely impressive impulse response graph, but I think its NOS and it shows on the Hugo 1 with the aliasing graph.



Actually I think the digital filters affect the sound less than better clock source (like RS 05 over V800).
I can tell that for sure because I have TEAC UD-501 near V800 and can choose different filters, or disable them at all.
And I experimented with the different custom filters (yes, I am software developer) with oversampling.
This filters (if implemented correctly) change the sound "flavor" for 44-48 kHz sources.
Moreover, for such sources you will probably have downsampled data with low-pass filter, which has the impulse response like in attached image.
With the source at the higher sampling rates it does not matter which filter is used, IMO.
I think, the most valuable difference lives in other areas.

But I think someone may disagree with me. This seems to be some kind of holy war theme


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## ardilla (Sep 7, 2017)

Dropping by to share my review of this friendly beast of an amp:

*THE VIOLECTRIC V281 REVIEW | The Headphoneer *


----------



## 13713

ardilla said:


> Dropping by to share my review of this friendly beast of an amp:
> 
> *THE VIOLECTRIC V281 REVIEW | The Headphoneer *


Interesting review... This quote seems forced and out of place though.

The Violectric V281 is that type of amplifier that makes you feel that the only thing you can hold against it is that it is “too good”


----------



## ardilla

13713 said:


> Interesting review... This quote seems forced and out of place though.
> 
> The Violectric V281 is that type of amplifier that makes you feel that the only thing you can hold against it is that it is “too good”



Hmm. I don't like writing stuff that people perceive that way. I tried to explain my feeling of the V281's "weak spot" being that some might find it too clean, to neutral etc. Like when a place can be too clean and tidy to feel cozy, music without flaws can feel soulless.. I have even heard people being described as "too beautiful" to be really attractive.. Did that make more sense to you?


----------



## Arniesb

ardilla said:


> Hmm. I don't like writing stuff that people perceive that way. I tried to explain my feeling of the V281's "weak spot" being that some might find it too clean, to neutral etc. Like when a place can be too clean and tidy to feel cozy, music without flaws can feel soulless.. I have even heard people being described as "too beautiful" to be really attractive.. Did that make more sense to you?


Makes sense. Rly liked your reviews, always like when people compare amp against other amp. Easier to understand how particular amp can sound when comparisons are in the mix.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I understand Ardillas point very well. I think this is a German thing. Absolute control, clean, ultra detailed, revealing, like a romantic winter night on the Bodensee where you freeze to death smiling, while admiring the fantastically aligned crystalline structure of the ice and the geometric wonders of it under a beautifully clear sky full of stars.

And I like it that way. transparency, separation, clarity, the clean, tight, well-controlled sound with a very well-defined soundstage and the ability to slam, kick and punch until the end of days. Romantik ist tot.


----------



## ardilla (Sep 8, 2017)

Arniesb said:


> Makes sense. Rly liked your reviews, always like when people compare amp against other amp. Easier to understand how particular amp can sound when comparisons are in the mix.



Thnks - yes - since all is relative I need something to relate to. I I tend to find my audiophile memory heavily biased - side by side comparisons ftw.. 



Fegefeuer said:


> I understand Ardillas point very well. I think this is a German thing. Absolute control, clean, ultra detailed, revealing, like a romantic winter night on the Bodensee where you freeze to death smiling, while admiring the fantastically aligned crystalline structure of the ice and the geometric wonders of it under a beautifully clear sky full of stars.
> 
> And I like it that way. transparency, separation, clarity, the clean, tight, well-controlled sound with a very well-defined soundstage and the ability to slam, kick and punch until the end of days. Romantik ist tot.



Yup, you got it. Thanks for a very nicely formulated elaborate metaphor


----------



## FumblingFoo (Sep 8, 2017)

Thank you very much for this and your other reviews, ardilla. I'm very happy to see the v281 as the top solid state amp on your list and second place over all . I get the curious impression that although the v281 is near-perfect in its clarity, tone, and soundstage (with some highlights where it can clearly be a bit better, e.g. perhaps a bit less polite in the midrange), it is indeed possible to be better than perfect with the introduction of the fun factor found in some other (tube) amps. But by no means is the v281 a boring or thin amp, its just very good at presenting the music "as-is" without any noticeable flaws or Achilles heels. I feel that the Violectric brand is highly underrated in the audiophile community at large, especially with my own listening to the v281 / v850 and impressions of others. Its like a niche audiophile product with world-class sound. I feel that I've made one of the best possible choices to go with Violectric as my end-game setup, and I'm very glad to have stumbled upon Violectric.


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, Violectric will go higher than the V281 with their portfolio so ardilla's EAR4 will get a massively sexy challenger.


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## FumblingFoo (Sep 26, 2017)

Fegefeuer said:


> well, Violectric will go higher than the V281 with their portfolio so ardilla's EAR4 will get a massively sexy challenger.



Yes, I also stumbled upon the plans announced back in 2011 .


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, apart from the internal changes I'm mostly curious about the new design :]


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## FumblingFoo (Sep 8, 2017)

Ooh but the current design is already so sexy . I hope the new design meshes with the v850, if not then I'll just have to spend $$$$ on what's beyond the v850 .

Edit: pic







The meter in the background is an American Recorder Technologies SPL-8810


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## 13713 (Sep 8, 2017)

ardilla said:


> Hmm. I don't like writing stuff that people perceive that way. I tried to explain my feeling of the V281's "weak spot" being that some might find it too clean, to neutral etc. Like when a place can be too clean and tidy to feel cozy, music without flaws can feel soulless.. I have even heard people being described as "too beautiful" to be really attractive.. Did that make more sense to you?



That makes sense.

Actually this description is really on point. The very reason I bought my V281 and V850. People like a bit of fun in their listening but I was looking for something that was spot on music in music out and this stack gave that to me. 

I am sorry if I came off rude with the previous statement I did enjoy the review a lot. I appreciated the comparison sections and music list and even went and listened to the songs you listed. Keep up the good work!


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## ardilla (Sep 8, 2017)

13713 said:


> That makes sense.
> 
> Actually this description is really on point. The very reason I bought my V281 and V850. People like a bit of fun in their listening but I was looking for something that was spot on music in music out and this stack gave that to me.
> 
> I am sorry if I came off rude with the previous statement I did enjoy the review a lot. I appreciated the comparison sections and music list and even went and listened to the songs you listed. Keep up the good work!



No offense taken, you pointed out something that I had not communicated good enough, and I am glad you did! But I must admit that your latest post was a lot more encouraging than the first one  Thanks for the kind words - And I hope you liked some of the music! Good test music is hard to find, it shall not only work as a tool to identify differences, but also be a nice listen - again and again..


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## FumblingFoo (Sep 12, 2017)

DAT RS 05 out on the USA Violectric website now! Just ordered mine .

http://violectric-usa.com/digital-audio-converters/DAT_RS_05

Edit: For some reason the product listing says ADC RS 05 (analog to digital converter?) instead of DAT RS 05 (Digital Audio Tool), but by the description page it is indeed the *DAT RS 05*.

Edit: Its fixed now  .


----------



## zhgutov

FumblingFoo said:


> DAT RS 05 out on the USA Violectric website now! Just ordered mine .



Tell us your impressions when it arrive. It is very interesting how it stacks with V850!


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## FumblingFoo

zhgutov said:


> Tell us your impressions when it arrive. It is very interesting how it stacks with V850!



Sure thing . My critical listening skills have slowly been improving so I hope to hear some interesting differences .


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## FumblingFoo

DAT RS 05 impressions *HERE*!


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## Fegefeuer

Interesting. 

Curious to see how the RS 05 fares against my 2nd hand USB Meister Proper Setup consisting of Schiit WYRD, DU-U8 Level 3 from an USB PCIe Card.


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## zhgutov

Fegefeuer said:


> Curious to see how the RS 05 fares against my 2nd hand USB Meister Proper Setup consisting of Schiit WYRD, DU-U8 Level 3 from an USB PCIe Card.


I think this might work with other devices too. Probably with most of them, because this is the state-of-the-art device.
At least, it works the same way with TEAC UD-501 via TOSLINK. But TEAC is not as good as V800 in direct comparison.


----------



## Dvdlucena

boomtube said:


> Curious about a tube-preamp that pairs well with the v281?


Did you try schiit freya with Sylvania tubes? Could be a good match


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Dilemma... please help me out here.

I have a possibility to exchange my trusted Taurus Mk2 (and some cash) for a V281 motorised stepped attenuator version (with DAC module, but that won't be used being inferior to both my Vega and my Mojo I suspect)

I have a hard time parting with my Taurus, which not only visually matches my Vega so beautifully, but just sounds damn good too imho. 

Would you guys think this is a good deal/a solid upgrade? 

Thanks!


----------



## Pharmaboy

Never heard the Taurus, though I've read pretty extensively about it (reviews, user comments, etc). A lot of people really like it as both HP amp & system preamp.

I have a V281 sans DAC (I have other DACs that I'm nuts about, so wouldn't use a built in DAC in V281 even if it was present). I bought my V281 used; it has the motorized 128-stepped pot.

All I can say about sound is this is truly an endgame amp/preamp. It's very powerful, and sounds every bit as powerful as it is (some powerful amps don't sound powerful, but this one does). It's impressive in just about every way, including the best bass of any of my amps (just ahead of another Violectric design, the Lake People G109-A, which also has terrific bass). It has the best soundstaging I've ever heard...a little different (wider, taller) than the very good soundstaging of the Liquid Carbon. It has unusual control & I/O flexibility. It's child's play to change inputs, volume, whether line is on/off vs headphone on/off (independent control of each). There's also extensive, granular control of gain, both the line out section and the headphone amp section. It's an amazing preamp--producing the best bass & soundstaging I've ever heard from 2 different pairs of powered speakers. Finally, the balanced output is pretty amazing (on 3 different headphones)...but the SE outputs sound quite good, as well.

I'm having subtle issues w/my motorized pot & will send it for service eventually. However, this being a used unit w/multiple past owners, it may have been abused or negligently handled in the past. For example, it's probably not wise to manually "twirl" this big motorized pot a lot, since it could affect the motorized portion (just a guess).

All to say that my little issue is almost certainly sample-specific. In all my reading about the V281, I never saw any comments about this.

Other than that, from what I can tell, Violectric products are utterly bulletproof. Both the V281 & G109-A are extremely practical, smooth, competent designs that sound great.


----------



## 13713

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> Dilemma... please help me out here.
> 
> I have a possibility to exchange my trusted Taurus Mk2 (and some cash) for a V281 motorised stepped attenuator version (with DAC module, but that won't be used being inferior to both my Vega and my Mojo I suspect)
> 
> ...



I do not see people in a Violectric thread telling you to not do it. If you like your set up I cannot with good conciseness tell you to jump ship without at least testing and having a listening session with the V281. Chasing that imaginary dragon for the best listening experience ever is dangerous and if you enjoy what you have then you should at least have good reasons why you think the change of setup is worth it. 

Also try to give the V281 a listen. Blind purchases in this hobby are always a bad idea.


----------



## sahmen

13713 said:


> I do not see people in a Violectric thread telling you to not do it. If you like your set up I cannot with good conciseness tell you to jump ship without at least testing and having a listening session with the V281. Chasing that imaginary dragon for the best listening experience ever is dangerous and if you enjoy what you have then you should at least have good reasons why you think the change of setup is worth it.
> 
> Also try to give the V281 a listen. Blind purchases in this hobby are always a bad idea.



+1



Pharmaboy said:


> Never heard the Taurus, though I've read pretty extensively about it (reviews, user comments, etc). A lot of people really like it as both HP amp & system preamp.
> 
> I have a V281 sans DAC (I have other DACs that I'm nuts about, so wouldn't use a built in DAC in V281 even if it was present). I bought my V281 used; it has the motorized 128-stepped pot.
> 
> ...




I agree with 13713 :  If you can audition the V281 for some days within your own chain of components, with your own cans, and then let your own ears decide, that would be your best option.   now. There is nothing anyone here will tell you that can top the decision you yourself will make after auditioning the unit and comparing it with the Taurus you already have... My two cents


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## FumblingFoo (Sep 28, 2017)

Before I offer some review material, again, as 13713 says, nothing beats demoing. I also own the v281 but haven't heard the Taurus, and I'm inherently biased (but I will try to be fair), so I will be brief but take what I say with a huge grain of salt (I'm doing this at the risk of sounding completely uninformed about the Taurus).

Tyll does some comparisons on innerfidelity.

"
.. As good as the Taurus is, when I remove my reviewer hat and just listen for fun, I find myself using the V281 more often. *I end up not wanting to analyze what I'm hearing at all, but rather just get lost in the music. ...*
"
So the v281 has a bit more "musicality" and flow to it (it has a thicker note presentation and is full-bodied), while the Taurus is more analytical and lean. The v281 is warm-neutral and relaxed/smooth (yet detailed). So these two amps seem to have opposite-leaning sound signatures. So, if you love how the Taurus sounds, the v281 will do what it does very well, but differently, so it would be an excellent choice for diversifying your sound but not necessarily an evolution of what you currently have. Its like the v281 and Taurus are on different paths sound signature wise with the v281 being further down its own path, rather than the v281 being further down strictly the Taurus path.

Even though Tyll goes on to say that the v281 surpasses the Taurus in at least some ways, how you like the different sound signature compared to the Taurus is crucial.


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## ardilla (Sep 28, 2017)

FumblingFoo said:


> So the v281 has a bit more "musicality" and flow to it (*it has a thicker note presentation and is full-bodied*), while the Taurus is more analytical and lean. The v281 is warm-neutral and relaxed/smooth (yet detailed). So these two amps seem to have opposite-leaning sound signatures.



The V281 feels more relaxed and smooth, yes. But I wouldn't call the V281 thicker and more full bodied overall - the Taurus has a thicker and warmer/more up front midrange, to my ears. The V281 is a tad tighter and more polite, feels a bit darker. It also feels slightly more at ease, in control. Or as John Grandberg at innerfidelity writes in the above mentioned review: "The Taurus seems slightly more lit up, while the V281 is smoother, more dynamic, with a greater sense of musical ease". I can agree on that. I posted some impressions here, if interested


----------



## FumblingFoo

ardilla said:


> The V281 feels more relaxed and smooth, yes. But I wouldn't call the V281 thicker and more full bodied overall - the Taurus has a thicker and warmer/more up front midrange, to my ears. The V281 is a tad tighter and more polite, feels a bit darker. It also feels slightly more at ease, in control. Or as John Grandberg at innerfidelity writes in the above mentioned review: "The Taurus seems slightly more lit up, while the V281 is smoother, more dynamic, with a greater sense of musical ease". I can agree on that. I posted some impressions here, if interested



+1, I haven't heard the Taurus so my impressions so I probably shouldn't even bother trying to compare the two. @ardilla has a comparison of the v281 and Taurus in the review.

One thing I'm confused on is if politeness equates with less attack and dynamics, or if it something to do with presence or something else entirely. Myself I've noticed that sharp transients sound sharp on the v281, like an acoustic guitar or the slam of drums amidst a black background, but then again I have nothing else in that price range to compare it to. I thought maybe the opposite of polite would be authoritative, but tyll says the v281 is authoritative (and I think others have too), but others have also commented on the v281's politeness, so maybe the two characteristics aren't related?


----------



## ardilla

FumblingFoo said:


> +1, I haven't heard the Taurus so my impressions so I probably shouldn't even bother trying to compare the two. @ardilla has a comparison of the v281 and Taurus in the review.
> 
> One thing I'm confused on is if politeness equates with less attack and dynamics, or if it something to do with presence or something else entirely. Myself I've noticed that sharp transients sound sharp on the v281, like an acoustic guitar or the slam of drums amidst a black background, but then again I have nothing else in that price range to compare it to. I thought maybe the opposite of polite would be authoritative, but tyll says the v281 is authoritative (and I think others have too), but others have also commented on the v281's politeness, so maybe the two characteristics aren't related?



The politeness described isn't the one that implies lack of dynamics and attack at all. Maybe politeness even is a bad term to use, it's like a kind of "Martial Arts Politeness"


----------



## novicez1

IMO, polite is opposite of being "upfront". Polite sounding makes certain notes sound further back, while Aggressive/Upfront sounding makes certain notes sound closer.


----------



## ardilla

I agree - so I can put it like this: The V281 is a bit more polite, mostly in the midrange, than the Taurus. - and hence the Taurus is a bit more upfront in the midrange than the V281. But it is a small difference, they are both quite neutral.


----------



## FumblingFoo

Ok thx guys !


----------



## PleasantSounds

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> Dilemma... please help me out here.
> 
> I have a possibility to exchange my trusted Taurus Mk2 (and some cash) for a V281 motorised stepped attenuator version (with DAC module, but that won't be used being inferior to both my Vega and my Mojo I suspect)
> 
> ...



Having heard both quite extensively (before settling for the V281), I would not consider this move as an upgrade.
These amps have very similar presentation, and the only thing separating them is a bit more smoothness in V281.
If I had both Taurus and Vega, I wouldn't be tempted at all by the V281.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

sahmen said:


> +1
> I agree with 13713 :  If you can audition the V281 for some days within your own chain of components, with your own cans, and then let your own ears decide, that would be your best option.   now. There is nothing anyone here will tell you that can top the decision you yourself will make after auditioning the unit and comparing it with the Taurus you already have... My two cents



I'm afraid that's not an option... would be awesome though.



PleasantSounds said:


> Having heard both quite extensively (before settling for the V281), I would not consider this move as an upgrade.
> These amps have very similar presentation, and the only thing separating them is a bit more smoothness in V281.
> If I had both Taurus and Vega, I wouldn't be tempted at all by the V281.



Actually, my interest is twofold. The second reason, I should be probably have said earlier - my apologies for that.

1) First reason is a bit lame, and very secondary to audio quality: the remote seems just so convenient for the bedtime listen. My audio rack is in the bedroom, though not next to the bed (no space for that). I don't like digitally dropping volume on my Vega too much. (100% volume for a pleasing level in classical music (some recordings are quite silent) can well be only 50% for comfortable/safe pop music listening)

2) Second reason is more important:
I'm planning on buying LCD-4. My LCD-3 played right into the Taurus' peak power of 4500mW at 120 Ohm in balanced mode. The LCD-4 though is less efficient and 200 Ohm... Planars love current, so I'm hoping to "max out" the LCD-4's potential if I make this big a dent in my wallet. I know the V281 has more power on tap. No clue however how (or if) that translates to sound.

Does anybody have experience with the LCD-4? Is it very power hungry?


----------



## 13713

If you are looking for a catch all amp then yes the two companies I would recommend are Violectric and Schiit. This is a Violectric thread so of course we are all biased. But for solid state amplifiers it is hard to come up with anything better than either of the two companies I mentioned earlier. When I started my journey I started it with the idea that I would purchase one almost end game SS stack and eventually get one end game tube stack. The v281/V850 combo has been nothing short of brilliant. With that said Schiit makes equally impressive equipment. 

Your question originally was in reference to a possible trade for the V281. If you are looking for an amp that will handle IEM's as well as hard to drive headphones then yes the V281 is and will be a solid choice. I suggested sampling one as you seem happy with your current setup but that was before you mentioned introducing different headphones into the mix. If you are looking for a SS amp that will handle a lot then the V281 is really hard to beat.


----------



## ardilla

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> I'm afraid that's not an option... would be awesome though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is, indeed. I haven't heard LCD-4 with neither the Taurus nor the V281, but with the HE-6, the V281 was in another league. You should maybe ask around in a LCD-4 thread?

With regards to the volume control, are you experiencing that the Vega is doing a bad job, or is it just by principle?


----------



## zek4u

zek4u said:


> I'm completely obsessing right now about desktop real estate. Router that look like something out of Aliens. Spectrum modem, 13" printer, CAPs server, my cool Nakamichi I just found for $25, turntable. All the power supplies. Just ordered another walnut cutting board to protect my fabricated wood desk from any kind of heat coming off the V281. Already have some IsoAcoustics stands I'll use for now until I find something better. I'm probably going to need another audio rack since I sold the last Quadraspire.  I'll keep you posted on how well the P3s pair with V281. Nothing analytical for me. I had 30.1s at one point on stands behind the desk. Now that looked crazy and I'm not a recording engineer.



All my speakers sounded better going through Belles Aria. Tried using V281 as a preamp to Aria in AV pass through. Also ran full gain from the Aria's unbalanced output to a regular input on the Aria. Speakers always sounded better when I used the Aria alone. On a whim, I hooked up my HD800S headphones to the Aria. Wow. This is my second Aria and I don't remember it's headphone amp sounding this good. Know this isn't what you Violectic folks want to hear but think I'm going to sell my V281. Has presence, doesn't seem as colored, maybe its just great synergy with the HD800S running unbalanced on the stock cable. Not sure why it sounds this good.  Maybe Dave Belles is a genius. I'm hearing the PRAT of NAIM and tube like highs with my Chord 2Qute. Think the first headphones I tried with my first Aria were Momentum 2s. Too bass heavy on real headphone amps I've since discovered.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zek4u said:


> All my speakers sounded better going through Belles Aria. Tried using V281 as a preamp to Aria in AV pass through. Also ran full gain from the Aria's unbalanced output to a regular input on the Aria. Speakers always sounded better when I used the Aria alone. On a whim, I hooked up my HD800S headphones to the Aria. Wow. This is my second Aria and I don't remember it's headphone amp sounding this good. Know this isn't what you Violectic folks want to hear but think I'm going to sell my V281. Has presence, doesn't seem as colored, maybe its just great synergy with the HD800S running unbalanced on the stock cable. Not sure why it sounds this good.  Maybe Dave Belles is a genius. I'm hearing the PRAT of NAIM and tube like highs with my Chord 2Qute. Think the first headphones I tried with my first Aria were Momentum 2s. Too bass heavy on real headphone amps I've since discovered.



Very interesting post. This doesn't happen very often: in your post, trad high end audio collides head-on w/desktop audio/headphone audio. These are very different worlds: high end audio is littered w/$10K preamps, $25K amps, and $50K speaker systems; desktop audio has some killer headphones at $2K and up,plus some endgame amps in the $4-5K range and up. Some of the desktop audio/headphone amps also serve as preamps, but IMO they're almost never "voiced" in the way high end audio preamps/amps are, using high end speakers as a combination resolution test & voicing tool.

I remember reading praise-filled reviews of Belles amps back in the mid-1980s, when my insane audiophile habit was hitting its stride. People always said these are SS amps that sound like tubes, not in the sense that they fall off at the frequency range extremes & push mids--but that they somehow convey the beauty of music better than SS usually can.

The Violectric "house sound" comes out of a totally different design aesthetic & audio experience (more tilted toward pro audio & desktop). I love the V281 for what it does in desktop audio (the Lake People G109-A, another Violectric design, also sounds very good IMO). Still, if I could get in my time machine w/the V281 and compare it to my VTL "Ultimate" preamp of 1986, playing through tube amps & a large, resolving speaker system--well, I wouldn't expect it to win that contest.

But on my desktop, compared to 2 other amp/preamps on hand & one that I've since sold (Burson Soloist, the big 4W/Ch, amp/preamp model)--the V281 takes 1st prize. I've heard it w/3 different pairs of powered speakers, and it clearly has the best full range sound & impact, top to bottom; also the best dynamics & bass I ever heard on any of these monitors. 

I'd love to hear the Belles, but to really get full mileage out of them, I'd have to sacrifice the powered monitors and go w/passives.


----------



## sahmen

*Are line-out audio signals processed in any way when the V281 is set to the Fixed/Pre fader mode?*

Here's what the manual says:

"If you wish to make use of the input signal without any level change – for a device with its own level controls or recording purposes e.g. – the Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader path *(prior to level control)* is the right choice: In this case,_ *the unaltered INPUT signal *_(prior to level control) is forwarded to the line output." 

I have my Yggdrasil feeding the V281 for headphone listening, but the V281 also functions as a pre amp sometimes for live 2-channel stereo speakers listening, by passing the signal from the Yggdrasil to my Emotiva XMC-1 pre processor. The 2 front speakers need to be hooked to the XMC-1 (rather than directly to the V281) because they are the same ones I also use for 5.1/7.1 surround sound (movies/music), and the XMC-1 does a good job interfacing and alternating between the three formats of playback.  

I am asking the above question because I want to really make sure that there isn't any (over)processing of the analogue music signals coming out of the Yggy before the reach the speakers for purely 2-channel music listening.  The XMC-1 has a "Reference Stereo" setting which passes received analogue sounds through to the speakers without any processing, except simple passive volume control (or so it is claimed)...  It seems to me that the V281 manual is making the same claim for the V281 operating in the "Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader part (prior to level control)" which simply forwards "the unaltered INPUT signal" to the line output.    

I am just trying to make sure that the analog sound coming out of the Yggy is therefore not altered in anyway (except by the passive volume control in the XMC-1) before reaching the speakers, and that if I were to remove the V281 from the signal path, the SQ of two channel audio from the Yggy will stay the same...

So are the assumptions I have made about the analogue sound staying pure along the ff path accurate?:  Yggy==>>V281 (pre fader) ==>> XMC-1 (Reference Stereo) ==>> speakers...??  Thanks for your input.


----------



## zhgutov

sahmen said:


> *Are line-out audio signals processed in any way when the V281 is set to the Fixed/Pre fader mode?*
> 
> Here's what the manual says:
> 
> ...



I suppose, you can get the output signal if the unit is turned off in the case if you have passive output.
You have such option with the HPA RS 08, for example. But not with V281.
It has active preamp even when you select the pre-fader mode.
But anyway, they tell what the active outputs are better (see http://lake-people.de/produktdetails/HPA_RS_08-E.html).

You can feed the signal to XLR or RCA inputs and you will get the signal with the same level on RCA outputs.
XLR outputs will be 6 dB higher.

After reading the latest posts I want to tell you my story (I am not trying to tell what anyone is wrong in its observations).
I have a cheap desktop speakers (Edifier 1800) which I connect to V281 outputs (RCA).
Some time ago I used Supra EFF-IXLR cable to connect my DAC to V281.
And when I compared RCA outputs of my DAC with the outputs of V281 I noticed the difference. It was not a subtle difference.
I know, this speakers are cheap, but until now they somehow can show me the difference if I have it in my signal path.
I was thinking this was V281 who alters the signal. I used this cables to measure DAC outputs and they don't add any distortion or something like this.
But I could not believe what it is V281 who alters the signal, so I started to research that.
I checked the pins of the cable and found what they have pin1 connected to the case of the connector.
I disconnected this pin, but the difference was still there.
Finally I decided to change the cable. And after this the difference has gone!
This was quite surprising to me. Now I have the outputs from DAC and amp which sound the same to me.

All I want to tell is what it is good to check everyting.


----------



## sahmen

zhgutov said:


> I suppose, you can get the output signal if the unit is turned off in the case if you have passive output.
> You have such option with the HPA RS 08, for example. But not with V281.
> It has active preamp even when you select the pre-fader mode.
> But anyway, they tell what the active outputs are better (see http://lake-people.de/produktdetails/HPA_RS_08-E.html).
> ...


Thanks for the thoughtful input.  I have indeed checked this morning, by routing the Yggy directly to the XMC-1 and comparing the results with the sound of the same chain with the V281 included. And I heard no unwanted "veils" or "colorations" introduced by the V281.  I actually prefer to have the V281 in the chain, because it enables me also to connect my two subs (via the single ended RCA line outputs), which adds some much needed low-end "oomph" to the proceedings (bass management, in this case, is done by the subs themselves). The V281 seems to be perfect for me in this secondary role.


----------



## zek4u

All my equipment is pretty top notch and I can easily hear differences. Both my interconnects are Chord Anthem 2s. Thought I could hear a difference between using the "Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader path". Have to move things around a bit but I'll try it again, DAC > V281 (Fixed-Out unbalanced) > Aria regular input vs DAC straight to Aria. I would much rather use the V281 because the volume knob of my Aria is too far away and to me, using a remote control is just strange when using headphones. Also don't like that my headphones are always on when playing speakers through the Aria unless unplugged. I'm lazy. 

Do think my latest Gallo Reference Strata desktop speakers sound better using the preamp of the Aria vs. the v281. Preamps to me are what shapes the sound and gives it character. I went with an REL sub so I didn't have to worry about using a variable pre-out. Using the Neutrik speaker level input. RELs also seem to work faster with electrostatics, tweeter on Strata. 

Pharmaboy, I would totally have tubes somewhere in my man cave but it already gets too hot in here when I close it up from the ball and chain and her kids. One of which can't stand loud music. I know, very strange. The Heed and LFD gear I had did sound a lot like tubes. Just a little thin sounding though and had reliability issues with the LFD NCSE. Had a Burson Conductor v1 hooked up to a Naim NAP 100 then to Harbeth Compact 7s. Was okay and wasn't into headphones at the time. Sold that system pretty quick.


----------



## sahmen (Oct 2, 2017)

zek4u said:


> "but I'll try it again, DAC > V281 (Fixed-Out unbalanced) > Aria regular input vs DAC straight to Aria..



The expression 'fixed-out unbalanced' introduces a new wrinkle in these evaluations of which I was not aware before.  I know that when using headphones, using all balanced connections (from DAC ==>>V281==>> Headphones) definitely impacts the sound one hears.  The sound coming out of the balanced 4-pin XLR jack is definitely different, in good way, from the one coming from the single-ended jack when using the same pair headphones.  I have verified that with the HD800. Normally, I use balanced XLR interconnects (Norne Audio Silvergarde SCIC) to link the Yggy to the V28I, the 281 to the XMC-1, and the XMC-1 to my XPA-1 Gen 2 monoblock amps, and that ensures that I have a balanced signal path, right from source to the Speakers, but also from source to headphones, when using the latter.

I am saying all this, because I am wondering how or whether things might sound different were you to use the "fixed out balanced" connectors on the V281 rather than the unbalanced (if that option is possible in your chain of components--I am not sure about this, to be honest, as I am not familiar with the other components you have referred to). I have never tried using the "fixed out" line output in unbalanced mode, but I wish I had the time to experiment with that in order to see how it shakes out in my own chain of components.  Maybe someone who has can chime in


----------



## zek4u (Oct 2, 2017)

zek4u said:


> All my equipment is pretty top notch and I can easily hear differences. Both my interconnects are Chord Anthem 2s. Thought I could hear a difference between using the "Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader path". Have to move things around a bit but I'll try it again, DAC > V281 (Fixed-Out unbalanced) > Aria regular input vs DAC straight to Aria. I would much rather use the V281 because the volume knob of my Aria is too far away and to me, using a remote control is just strange when using headphones. Also don't like that my headphones are always on when playing speakers through the Aria unless unplugged. I'm lazy.
> 
> Do think my latest Gallo Reference Strata desktop speakers sound better using the preamp of the Aria vs. the v281. Preamps to me are what shapes the sound and gives it character. I went with an REL sub so I didn't have to worry about using a variable pre-out. Using the Neutrik speaker level input. RELs also seem to work faster with electrostatics, tweeter on Strata.
> 
> Pharmaboy, I would totally have tubes somewhere in my man cave but it already gets too hot in here when I close it up from the ball and chain and her kids. One of which can't stand loud music. I know, very strange. The Heed and LFD gear I had did sound a lot like tubes. Just a little thin sounding though and had reliability issues with the LFD NCSE. Had a Burson Conductor v1 hooked up to a Naim NAP 100 then to Harbeth Compact 7s. Was okay and wasn't into headphones at the time. Sold that system pretty quick.



Working from home today so went ahead and rewired the system. Desktop speakers still sound great using the "Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader path". In a way, it might sound just a little more relaxed. Just the slightest bit. Maybe this is because of the extra cable in the chain and it still has to be going through some kind of circuit in the V281. I actually prefer this as I'm use to the relaxed/organic Harbeth sound. Gallo's are very resolving and accurate but not bright. Know I said that I could sell the V281 being that the Belles headphone amp was surprisingly good. It's very good but on second thought, the bass is a little strong and I'm not hearing as much nuance. Not hearing the same level of fine textures in voices, etc. Maybe the later is the difference between running the HD800S unbalanced cable on the Belles versus the Cardas Clear balances cable on the V281. Easy access to the nice V281 volume knob, having the 2Qute close to switch inputs and quick muting from the front of the V281. All those advantages plus being the V281's headphone listening is so darn wonderful and the desktop speakers perform just as well now in fixed-out mode, I can live with this setup!

I think Pharmaboy is definitely right in that active pre-amps in headphone amplifiers are voiced differently. At least that seems to be the case with the V281 in post-fader mode to my Belles Aria's AV pass through input. It just didn't work out for me, loss in resolution and too much energy. It's all about synergy. With active monitors, post-fader mode might work out perfectly.

sahmen, from what I read, the V281 can only run "Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader path" using the unbalanced outs, not the balanced. My Belles doesn't have balanced connections. Wish I could afford a Dave or used Hugo TT. Also would take too much of a hit on my 2Qute/MCRU PSU. Used prices have really dropped with the introduction of the Hugo 2.


----------



## zhgutov (Oct 2, 2017)

zek4u said:


> I think Pharmaboy is definitely right in that active pre-amps in headphone amplifiers are voiced differently. At least that seems to be the case with the V281 in post-fader mode to my Belles Aria's AV pass through input. It just didn't work out for me, loss in resolution and too much energy. It's all about synergy. With active monitors, post-fader mode might work out perfectly.


The difference may be caused by the different level in post-fader mode (there are lots of things which may be altered _after_ the outputs because of that).
Because you have the same output circuitry in both cases (pre- and post-).
The only difference is the volume control before output PCB.
Try to compare pre- and post- fader modes with the volume control at the maximum level.

I don't know if there is any degradation with the volume control turned down.
Thats why I want to try relay option, which does not have potentiometers in the signal path.
All I know is what when I turn the digital volume control down on my DAC, and the volume up on the amp, the sound remains pretty the same. At least in a 20-30 dB range. I have not tried more.


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## sahmen (Oct 2, 2017)

"from what I read, the V281 can only run "Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader path" using the unbalanced outs"

zek4u :  That must be an error, because I personally run the "Fixed-Out/Pre-fader path" only in balanced mode, by which I mean, using the balanced XLR connectors, between the V281 and the XMC-1.  It is the very mode in which it is running now, and the pre fader/fixed function is fully engaged, as it should... I have no single-ended RCA connectors between those two components.  Of course, we could be mis-communicating regarding the meaning of what we are calling "balanced."  You could be saying that the signal sent out through the balanced XLR-connectors on the V28, when functioning in Pre fader/fixed mode, is itself not balanced, but I do not get the sense that this is the case, since you're referring to the balanced XLR outputs themselves, which I am currently using. If I am getting something wrong let me know, how and where.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Just reading the last batch of posts by @sahmen, @zhgutov, and @zek4u -- my head is spinning. These posts describe a wide range of functional & sonic results from using various combinations of input/output features of the V281, which has by far the most flexible I/O & gain functions I've ever seen. A couple related observations:

1. While the V281 doesn't sound identical to/indistinguishable from high end preamps--it's also not usually the culprit when one searches for the source of unwanted sonic effects in the system. IMO the V281 is so over-built & over-spec'd from an engineering standpoint, and has such wide S/N ratio w/so little distortion, that is rarely "adds something" or "subtracts" something from the sound of one's desktop system.

FYI, I had quite a love affair w/passive volume controllers/preamps, finally purchasing a rather expensive stepped passive pot that also converted 1 RCA input to 2 RCA outputs. I find that passives as a group can add/subtract sonically far more than a well designed active circult like the V281, primarily because the passive device exposes the user to any impedance/gain mismatches that exist in his/her system. If you're not lucky & the passive has to drive highly capacitative cables and/or interface w/an unfavorable input impedance in the downstream device, bad sound may result.
2. Re balanced vs RCA/S.E. outputs, I would love to be able to run these outputs simultaneously: with balanced output pair directly connecting to my balanced-input powered monitors; and SE/RCA outputs going to the SVS SB1000 sub. However, the Violectric manual advises against this, saying sound may be degraded as a result.

Have any of you used the balanced + SE outputs simultaneously? If yes, could you hear any degradation from doing so?


----------



## zek4u

zhgutov said:


> The difference may be caused by the different level in post-fader mode (there are lots of things which may be altered _after_ the outputs because of that).
> Because you have the same output circuitry in both cases (pre- and post-).
> The only difference is the volume control before output PCB.
> Try to compare pre- and post- fader modes with the volume control at the maximum level.
> ...



zhgutov, don't know why I didn't think of doing that versus re-wiring my system to use the AV pass through. When I switch to post-fader and pushed the volume control all the way up, I immediately hear a loss in quality. Less resolution, sounds a bit muddled and hear less nuance though my Belles/Gallos. Note, I just have the standard Alps pot on my V281.

sahmen, I did make a mistake. Sold my V280 and you reconfigure the RCA inputs to be RCA outputs. That must have been what confused me. Good to know you can use the balanced outputs in a pre-fader situation. I used the V281 in a balanced post-fader situation with a Proceed AMP2 and Magnepan MMGs. Sounded great actually.

Pharmaboy, would love to do some balanced/unbalnced comparisons but need a decent balanced DAC. Maybe one day the Chord TTs will drop even more. I'm just addicted to the Chord sound. Did just get a Sony NW-WM1A DAP. I'm tempted to order a Black Dragon TRRS 4.4 balanced to two 3-pin XLR adapter. Run that into the V281 to compare. Humm.


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## zhgutov

zek4u said:


> When I switch to post-fader and pushed the volume control all the way up, I immediately hear a loss in quality. Less resolution, sounds a bit muddled and hear less nuance though my Belles/Gallos. Note, I just have the standard Alps pot on my V281.


Well, this looks like you have overloaded _inputs_ on your Belles at the higher levels.
Do you know which maximum level it can accept without distortion?
Which level do you have at the inputs of the V281/from your DAC?

I had the same issue, but with V281. The manual tells what the maximum input level for V281 is 21 dBu.
I was thinking this corresponds to RCA inputs only. But actually, the maximum input level for V281 is 21 dBu for both XLR and RCA!
My DAC was set to 24 dBu and I always turned the volume down slightly because I heard "less resolution, sounds a bit muddled..."
This difference occurred with the "loud" recordings mastered close to 0 dBFS (Celldweller, for example).
I was thinking this is probably something like "Benchmark"-feature, and I need this 3.5 dB headroom.
But actually the problem was in another area, this was just overloaded inputs of V281, lol.
I measured the outputs and found what I have distortion when I feed input signal at ~23 dBu or higher.
So, I just lowered the output level in my DAC and the problem has gone.


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## sahmen (Oct 2, 2017)

2. Re balanced vs RCA/S.E. outputs, I would love to be able to run these outputs simultaneously: with balanced output pair directly connecting to my balanced-input powered monitors; and SE/RCA outputs going to the SVS SB1000 sub. However, the Violectric manual advises against this, saying sound may be degraded as a result.

Have any of you used the balanced + SE outputs simultaneously? If yes, could you hear any degradation from doing so?[/QUOTE]

I have done this, but only when the V281 is operating in Pre fader/fixed mode. Because I want the sound from the Yggy (DAC) to remain in the balanced/analogue domain through the V281 and the XmC-1 processor without any processing (such as bass management) being done by the XMC-1 upstream, I assign the XMC-1 to the all analogue Reference Stereo setting, and allow the RCA output from the V281 to forward the same_* unaltered INPUT signal *_(prior to level control)  in full range mode to the subs (which do the bass management)...  

True, I have read the part of the manual which warns about the possible slight degradation of the sound when both balanced and unbalanced line outputs are engaged at the same time.  However, I have also assumed (rightly or wrongly) that since the v281 is hardly doing any processing to alter the sound when operating in that Pre fader/fixed mode, and all the heavy lifting is being done upstream by the Pre pro and the powered subs (bass management) and downstream by the DAC, there is little to no risk of the forwarded signal from the V281 being compromised.  I have not tested this hypothesis in any rigorous way by AB'ing the results in SQ, but from what little testing I have done, I know that I definitely prefer the sound of the system with the V281 hooked to the subs.

Today, I removed the V281 from the chain so that the Yggy can feed the pre pro directly, and noticed no marked improvement in the sound, except for the fact that I was missing the low end that the V281's connection to the sub makes possible.  Next I am going to compare the sound with and without the sub connected to the SE/RCA output of the V281 in "pre fader/fixed" mode and find out if I can hear any difference beyond the missing low end sounds contributed by the subs.  

Of course, I am sure I am going to prefer the sound with the sub engaged via the SE/RCA outputs, but I wish I could be more rigorous in my testing methods than that...  For example, I am making all the performance evaluations by ear, but it  could be that the "possible degradation" they're referring to is the kind that is easier to see through measurements and graphs, rather than actually hearing.  That is always possible.  I shall also send an email inquiry about this to Violectric/Lake people in order to find out what they say.


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## zek4u

zhgutov said:


> Well, this looks like you have overloaded _inputs_ on your Belles at the higher levels.
> Do you know which maximum level it can accept without distortion?
> Which level do you have at the inputs of the V281/from your DAC?
> 
> ...



Don't think my inputs are distorting. Synergy just isn't there with my Belles Integrated/Gallo speakers when using the V281 as a preamp, "Variable-Out or Post-Fader" mode. The same goes with my Harbeth P3ESRs. Seems to be less manipulation going on when using the V281 in "Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader" mode as it sounds very close to running my DAC straight into integrated. I also tried running the V281 off the tape/monitor out from the Belles. V281 takes hit in quality when the dac isn't plugged straight in. Seems to me there is less manipulation using the V281's pre-fader which is another feather in the cap for Violectric. 

My 2Qute's outputs are quite high. Might be 3V and can't be adjusted. The thing is, nothing sounds overloaded using heapdhones or speakers. I just think the Violectric's active preamp is tuned to be fairly lively which makes the V281 work so well with the HD800S headphones. That's just my opinion.


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## ostewart

I've just been writing up my review, it's really hard to sum up as it just does what it says on the box and works, crystal clear yet also a tiny bit smooth with very natural and effortless sound.


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## zhgutov

zek4u said:


> Don't think my inputs are distorting. Synergy just isn't there with my Belles Integrated/Gallo speakers when using the V281 as a preamp, "Variable-Out or Post-Fader" mode. The same goes with my Harbeth P3ESRs. Seems to be less manipulation going on when using the V281 in "Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader" mode as it sounds very close to running my DAC straight into integrated. I also tried running the V281 off the tape/monitor out from the Belles. V281 takes hit in quality when the dac isn't plugged straight in. Seems to me there is less manipulation using the V281's pre-fader which is another feather in the cap for Violectric.
> 
> My 2Qute's outputs are quite high. Might be 3V and can't be adjusted. The thing is, nothing sounds overloaded using heapdhones or speakers. I just think the Violectric's active preamp is tuned to be fairly lively which makes the V281 work so well with the HD800S headphones. That's just my opinion.


3 V RMS is okay for V281, it is somewhere near 12 dBu.
It is hard to say for sure about your preamp, this was just my guess, but in my case this was not sound like distortion too.
Maybe it is not the distortion in your case. But I'd check that to know for sure.


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## FumblingFoo (Oct 2, 2017)

ostewart said:


> I've just been writing up my review, it's really hard to sum up as it just does what it says on the box and works, crystal clear yet also a tiny bit smooth with very natural and effortless sound.



Awesome, I look forward to your impressions ! I've been slowly working on reviews for my equipment (including the v281), but my progress is limited because the v281 is the only TOTL amp I have experience with :/.


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## sahmen (Oct 2, 2017)

sahmen said:


> 2. Re balanced vs RCA/S.E. outputs, I would love to be able to run these outputs simultaneously: with balanced output pair directly connecting to my balanced-input powered monitors; and SE/RCA outputs going to the SVS SB1000 sub. However, the Violectric manual advises against this, saying sound may be degraded as a result.
> 
> Have any of you used the balanced + SE outputs simultaneously? If yes, could you hear any degradation from doing so?





sahmen said:


> I have done this, but only when the V281 is operating in Pre fader/fixed mode. Because I want the sound from the Yggy (DAC) to remain in the balanced/analogue domain through the V281 and the XmC-1 processor without any processing (such as bass management) being done by the XMC-1 upstream, I assign the XMC-1 to the all analogue Reference Stereo setting, and allow the RCA output from the V281 to forward the same_* unaltered INPUT signal *_(prior to level control)  in full range mode to the subs (which do the bass management)...
> 
> True, I have read the part of the manual which warns about the possible slight degradation of the sound when both balanced and unbalanced line outputs are engaged at the same time.  However, I have also assumed (rightly or wrongly) that since the v281 is hardly doing any processing to alter the sound when operating in that Pre fader/fixed mode, and all the heavy lifting is being done upstream by the Pre pro and the powered subs (bass management) and downstream by the DAC, there is little to no risk of the forwarded signal from the V281 being compromised.  I have not tested this hypothesis in any rigorous way by AB'ing the results in SQ, but from what little testing I have done, I know that I definitely prefer the sound of the system with the V281 hooked to the subs.
> 
> ...




Here's a first response from Violectric USA to this query... He doesn't think the deterioration always occurs, but he needs to crosscheck my case with Fried and get back to me:

*************
*"...I'm not sure I'll have to ask Fried who designed it.

Keep in mind he said "slight sound deterioration might occur depending on the following devices connected". He is saying 'might' with 'some' devices. If there is miss match in the combined load there could possibly be small degradation in sound quality.

A lot of very picky audiophiles use the V281 in the same fashion with speakers and subwoofers simultaneously utilizing both your RCA and XLR outputs at the same time. No one has ever noticed any degradation in sound quality. I really wouldn't be overly concerned about this.

I'll let you know what Fried says.*
*******************

I shall post the follow-up response from Fried, if/when I receive it.


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## Pharmaboy

zek4u said:


> zhgutov, don't know why I didn't think of doing that versus re-wiring my system to use the AV pass through. When I switch to post-fader and pushed the volume control all the way up, I immediately hear a loss in quality. Less resolution, sounds a bit muddled and hear less nuance though my Belles/Gallos. Note, I just have the standard Alps pot on my V281.
> 
> sahmen, I did make a mistake. Sold my V280 and you reconfigure the RCA inputs to be RCA outputs. That must have been what confused me. Good to know you can use the balanced outputs in a pre-fader situation. I used the V281 in a balanced post-fader situation with a Proceed AMP2 and Magnepan MMGs. Sounded great actually.
> 
> Pharmaboy, would love to do some balanced/unbalnced comparisons but need a decent balanced DAC. Maybe one day the Chord TTs will drop even more. I'm just addicted to the Chord sound. Did just get a Sony NW-WM1A DAP. I'm tempted to order a Black Dragon TRRS 4.4 balanced to two 3-pin XLR adapter. Run that into the V281 to compare. Humm.



I should clarify several points (there's so much to talk about w/this hyper-flexible amp!):

Both of my DACs (Audio GD NOS 19 & DAC-19) have single-ended outputs only--each has 2 pairs of RCA outs. This is super convenient, allowing me to have 2 HP amps up and running at all times; but it means I have not yet heard the V281 driven by balanced cables.
Re line level outputs of the V281, I typically use the RCA outs, when then go to my SVS SB-1000 sub, the high pass crossover of which goes to an unbalanced-to-balanced converter (which actually sounds good), then on the ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7 powered monitors, which take only balanced inputs.
Once I wired the balanced outputs of the V281 direct to these monitors (w/no signal going to or through the sub). I got the best sound I've ever heard from the HS7s. If nothing else, this proves that in addition to all its other strengths, the V281 is a terrific single-ended-to-balanced converter.
And re the headphone outputs, I typically listen only the balanced outputs, which IMO sound somewhat better than the single-ended output in all the predictable ways (ie, more power; somewhat more soundstaging/space around notes; etc). But I've listened a lot through the SE outputs w/my non-balanced headphones, and it just sounds great...
And as discussed weeks ago in this thread, the extensive gain adjustments on the V281 allowed me to very precisely "tune" the output to suit my system. Without that granular, step-wise gain adjustment capability, this amp/preamp would overdrive my desktop system and all headphones except the planar (ZMF Ori) to an alarming degree.


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## zek4u (Oct 2, 2017)

Now I regret spending the money for the budget Sprout/vintage TT system the girlfriend and others can use. Should have just take that money, sold the 2Qute, gotten a Hugo TT and a good balanced cable. I'm so darn OCD about this stuff. I want to run balanced from the TT to my V281 and unbalanced to my Belles Aria. It just seems like the smallest amount of the magic disappeared even going fixed-out. Urghhhh. It's probably just something I'm imagining.

My old neighbor had some old Yamaha monitors running off some soundboard and a crappy subwoofer. I would come downstairs from listening to my expensive Naim SN2/Harbeth 30.1 system and be amazed how enjoyable it was. Kind of pissed me off. Lol. Have always loved paper drivers. Maybe each driver has it's own crossover and amp, true active monitor. Maybe I should get a pair of ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7 or some Neimann KH 100As. Then I'm thinking how would I run the subwoofer. Do it just like you do it Pharmaboy but then how do I run my integrated amp. I need to just listen to a group of songs again and go back and forth with the DAC hooked straight to the integrated amp versus fixed-out out of the V281.

I shouldn't care as much about my near field listening but for some reason I do.


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## Dvdlucena

zek4u said:


> I'm so darn OCD about this stuff.


 Maybe you should treat your OCD before changing anything in our chain!


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## Pharmaboy

Dvdlucena said:


> Maybe you should treat your OCD before changing anything in our chain!



What you suggest is an impossibility: if @zek4u's OCD were treated, his head would explode; his audio gear would disappear into a different dimension; and the audio industry (here and in the EU) would be bankrupt in days.

(OK, maybe the exploding head part is guesswork--but the rest is solid)

Hell, if somebody made my audio OCD go away, a lot of my personality & memories would go with it (not an improvement)

PS: I care way too much about nearfield listening, too. I'm a freelance writer, in this office 8-12 hrs/day whether I have work or not. Nearfield audio is my "secret ingredient" my sanity maintenance (my wife would laugh hysterically at that). Besides, if it weren't for nearfield audio, I'd still be OCD, broke & crazy over midfield audio (high end audio (tube preamp, amps, speakers, subs, blah-blah). So in a sick way, nearfield audio saved my *ss!


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## Dvdlucena

Pharmaboy said:


> What you suggest is an impossibility: if @zek4u's OCD were treated, his head would explode; his audio gear would disappear into a different dimension; and the audio industry (here and in the EU) would be bankrupt in days.
> 
> (OK, maybe the exploding head part is guesswork--but the rest is solid)
> 
> ...


Just one word:
Clomipramine

LOL

Cheers


----------



## ostewart

FumblingFoo said:


> Awesome, I look forward to your impressions ! I've been slowly working on reviews for my equipment (including the v281), but my progress is limited because the v281 is the only TOTL amp I have experience with :/.



Yeah same here, I don't really have anything on hand to compare it to


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## zek4u

To be honest Dvdlucena put me in a bad mood about this thread. A guy can't even try to be funny.  Thank you Phamaboy for defending me. I might rant about things I'm trying to figure out but who knows, maybe what I'm going through could be useful for others. All I'm trying to do is make my near field listening as enjoyable as my headphone listening.


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## CoLdAsSauLt (Oct 4, 2017)

Thank you all guys for chiming in!

I got an answer to my question about the Taurus' power output at 200 Ohm:



> Hi Stijn:
> 
> We finished a physical test this week. Here is the test result, (it may various from machine to machine)
> 
> ...



Looks quite good to me on paper for the LCD-4. Now I'm waiting until the latter arrives, probably today 



ardilla said:


> With regards to the volume control, are you experiencing that the Vega is doing a bad job, or is it just by principle?



I think both... I feel uncomfortable "loosing information" when all we do nowadays is add information through hi-rez or DSD stuff. But to be honest, I think I only hear some loss in dynamics, and even that may well be expectation bias. It's hardly possible to A/B test this, let alone a blind test. Volume matching is just too difficult. But Auralic states themselves that the digital attenuation is only inaudible up to a certain %... and when you're this much invested in audio and hi-tech stuff, you simply don't want any €/component underperforming - probably more a mental thing than a real world problem, buy hey...


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## Pharmaboy

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> Thank you all guys for chiming in!
> 
> I got an answer to my question about the Taurus' power output at 200 Ohm:
> 
> ...



This is going to sound strange, coming from someone who's having low-level/annoyance type issues w/the big stepped pot of the V281--but I'm seriously put off by digital volume controllers. I know that the more evolved/better digital volume designs don't have nearly the "lossy" potential of early designs (which literally shaved off "bits" as they went). Maybe it's just ignorance or prejudice on my part, but I don't welcome a digital pathway at the front end of my preamp. Sorry if I'm offending any engineers out there.

The thing is: it took 30+ years for me to find a DAC that really "moved the needle" for me (sonically) in the direction of the organic, relaxed, somewhat warm tonality I hear in the concert hall & in analog/vinyl--that's a multi-bit design, the Audio GD NOS 19 (also have the DAC-19, also very good IMO). While a digital volume controller is very different in form & function from a DAC, still, I'd rather not have it. Guess I fear that I'd hear it & be stuck with it. I feel pretty much the same about DSP in powered monitors.

It's not as if analogue volume pots are perfect. Clearly, they are not. But I'll take a competent, well-designed & built analogue pot any day.


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## FumblingFoo (Oct 5, 2017)

I have a quick question about the amount of power the v281 is able to deliver. Obviously I don't plan to listen any where near the max power the v281 is rated to deliver; I'm simply curious about what the testing is showing. So, the maximum input level for the amp is +21dbu, right? My v850 is set to deliver +18dbu balanced into the v281. For the test I had the amp set to +14.5db gain (6db + 12db pre-gain set). I used the Beyerdynamic T90 headphones 250ohm with a sensitivity of 102db/mw.

So, the v281 is rated to deliver I'm guessing around 4000mw per channel @ 250ohms balanced, right? That translates to about 2000mw per channel unbalanced, right? Well, at 2000mw the max spl should be around 135db, but by running the headphones with the volume at -30db in foobar2000 and the volume pot cranked all the way up on the v281, I was getting compensated max db figures around 140db (up to about 142db) out of my spl meter, which puts the per channel power at about 6300 - 10,000mw. I think I'm getting accurate measurements positioning the meter right next to the transducer, because listening levels become slightly unpleasant for me right at around 85db measured volume (the threshold for potential hearing loss) in the same position, and listening at 110db measured volume is *EXTREMELY *loud and very uncomfortable (120 db spl is supposed to be the threshold of discomfort, but a chainsaw at 1m is pretty uncomfortably loud too) . Also, even though the inner part of my ear canal is further away than the measurement instrument, the mass of my ear and skull are capturing a wider field of sound more efficiently than air from the transducer and concentrating that on my eardrum. Still, though, my methodology could be flawed and the actual spl a couple or so db lower.

I'm not about to field test that amount of power into my headphones, but the data presents a bit of a contradiction. Even with the extra 2.5db of power over what the manual specifies for the pre-gain, technically the v281 is running .5db within its limits because the signal I'm feeding into it via the v850 is 3db below max spec. So, the question is, will the v281 indeed deliver 6300mw per channel unbalanced @ 250ohms, or will the amp clip / severely distort or are my measurements just too loud?


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## zhgutov (Oct 5, 2017)

FumblingFoo said:


> I have a quick question about the amount of power the v281 is able to deliver. Obviously I don't plan to listen any where near the max power the v281 is rated to deliver; I'm simply curious about what the testing is showing. So, the maximum input level for the amp is +21dbu, right? My v850 is set to deliver +18dbu balanced into the v281. For the test I had the amp set to +14.5db gain (6db + 12db pre-gain set). I used the Beyerdynamic T90 headphones 250ohm with a sensitivity of 102db/mw.
> 
> So, the v281 is rated to deliver I'm guessing around 4000mw per channel @ 250ohms balanced, right? That translates to about 2000mw per channel unbalanced, right? Well, at 2000mw the max spl should be around 135db, but by running the headphones with the volume at -30db in foobar2000 and the volume pot cranked all the way up on the v281, I was getting compensated max db figures around 140db (up to about 142db) out of my spl meter, which puts the per channel power at about 6300 - 10,000mw. I think I'm getting accurate measurements positioning the meter right next to the transducer, because listening levels become slightly unpleasant for me right at around 85db measured volume (the threshold for potential hearing loss) in the same position, and listening at 110db measured volume is *EXTREMELY *loud and very uncomfortable (120 db spl is supposed to be the threshold of discomfort, but a chainsaw at 1m is pretty uncomfortably loud too) . Also, even though the inner part of my ear canal is further away than the measurement instrument, the mass of my ear and skull are capturing a wider field of sound more efficiently than air from the transducer and concentrating that on my eardrum. Still, though, my methodology could be flawed and the actual spl a couple or so db lower.
> 
> I'm not about to field test that amount of power into my headphones, but the data presents a bit of a contradiction. Even with the extra 2.5db of power over what the manual specifies for the pre-gain, technically the v281 is running .5db within its limits because the signal I'm feeding into it via the v850 is 3db below max spec. So, the question is, will the v281 indeed deliver 6300mw per channel unbalanced @ 250ohms, or will the amp clip / severely distort or are my measurements just too loud?



Your T90 can accept up to 200 mW according to specification. Haven't they exploded yet?

The manual tells what when you set the pre-gain to "+" values, the maximum level becomes less.

When you have 18 dBu at the inputs and +14.5 dB pre-gain you also have the amplifier gain, which is 8 dB in unbalanced mode, and 14 dB (8 + 6) in balanced mode.
So, you can get in theory 46.5 dBu = 163 V RMS = 107 W = 152 dB SPL in balanced mode. It is impossible in practice, because V281 has 40 VA for everything.
So, to prevent such conditions it has (at least) the current limiter. It also has half of the amplifiers in unbalanced mode, which may have it's own limits.

Anyway, taking in account 8 dB amplifier gain, you can get your ~142 dB, as measured with compensation.
Please note what the sensitivity of the headphones is not flat, and depends on the frequency.


----------



## FumblingFoo

zhgutov said:


> Your T90 can accept up to 200 mW according to specification. Haven't they exploded yet?


LOL! They didn't explode but they were vibrating intensely (I only drove them to 110db spl @ 10mw).



zhgutov said:


> The manual tells what when you set the pre-gain to "+" values, the maximum level becomes less.


Bummer, I was hoping to get a little extra juice into the amp without the risk of overloading it. But still the risk is negligible for me because such a level is far beyond my preferred listening volume. Still potentially useful for quieter music though.



zhgutov said:


> When you have 18 dBu at the inputs and +14.5 dB pre-gain you also have the amplifier gain, which is 8 dB in unbalanced mode, and 14 dB (8 + 6) in balanced mode.
> So, you can get in theory 46.5 dBu = 163 V RMS = 107 W = 152 dB SPL in balanced mode. It is impossible in practice, because V281 has 40 VA for everything.
> So, to prevent such conditions it has (at least) the current limiter. It also has half of the amplifiers in unbalanced mode, which may have it's own limits.
> 
> Anyway, taking in account 8 dB amplifier gain, you can get your ~143 dB, as measured with compensation.



Thanks . According to my calculator at 140db for the T90 the load on the v281 would be 158.9 milliamps RMS @ 39.72 volts RMS, so I reckon that's still within the limits. My primary points of curiosity were that the Lyr 2 is quite a powerful amp, but the v281 on higher gain is not just a _bit _but a *LOT *more powerful than even the Lyr 2. Also, with 25W + 15W at, say, 70% efficiency for a class A/B amplifier (I believe the v281 is, right?), that leaves about up to 28,000mw of peak power (I know this isn't the same as RMS obviously, but I wonder if that translates to being what the peak db can be). All very interesting stuff, the v281's quite a bit more powerful than I thought it could be.


----------



## zhgutov

FumblingFoo said:


> Bummer, I was hoping to get a little extra juice into the amp without the risk of overloading it. But still the risk is negligible for me because such a level is far beyond my preferred listening volume. Still potentially useful for quieter music though.


As I understand, the pre-gain stages are situated _after_ the volume control, which only decreases the input signal.
So when you set the pre-gain higher to "get more juice", you also decrease the volume by the volume pot to get the same loudness.
In this case you have a smaller signal in the chain. And this brings the noise floor up (measurements confirm that).
I think that's why the general recommendation (which may be found at the first page of this thread) is to prefer lower pre-gain levels when possible.



FumblingFoo said:


> Also, with 25W + 15W at, say, 70% efficiency for a class A/B amplifier (I believe the v281 is, right?), that leaves about up to 28,000mw of peak power (I know this isn't the same as RMS obviously, but I wonder if that translates to being what the peak db can be).


There are more things to power. Not only the power amp itself. And how can you get such large peaks?


----------



## FumblingFoo

zhgutov said:


> As I understand, the pre-gain stages are situated _after_ the volume control, which only decreases the input signal.
> So when you set the pre-gain higher to "get more juice", you also decrease the volume by the volume pot to get the same loudness.
> In this case you have a smaller signal in the chain. And this brings the noise floor up (measurements confirm that).
> I think that's why the general recommendation (which may be found at the first page of this thread) is to prefer lower pre-gain levels when possible.



Yes, I almost always use -14dbu in normal listening, which leaves the volume at about 11 - 2 o'clock except for quiet recordings . 



zhgutov said:


> There are more things to power. Not only the power amp itself. And how can you get such large peaks?



Yeah, I'm definitely no electrical engineering expert, so I don't know how much power gets dissipated by the other circuitry (even when given a schematic). But as far as large peaks go, I think if, say, an amp has 1000mw RMS, then the necessary peak power is generally something like 2000mw. So if I was driving the v281 at 1400mw or 6300mw RMS, it would have to have to have enough reserve power to deliver 2800mw or 12600mw instantaneously for the peaks of the signal to avoid clipping. I'm sure that with the voltage at voltage and current RMS in spec, then the amp is designed for higher instantaneous values in peak loads.


----------



## zhgutov

FumblingFoo said:


> Yeah, I'm definitely no electrical engineering expert, so I don't know how much power gets dissipated by the other circuitry (even when given a schematic). But as far as large peaks go, I think if, say, an amp has 1000mw RMS, then the necessary peak power is generally something like 2000mw. So if I was driving the v281 at 1400mw or 6300mw RMS, it would have to have to have enough reserve power to deliver 2800mw or 12600mw instantaneously for the peaks of the signal to avoid clipping. I'm sure that with the voltage at voltage and current RMS in spec, then the amp is designed for higher instantaneous values in peak loads.


I am not an electrical engineer too. Maybe someone will disagree with me, and will explain why.

HE-6 need ~500 mW to get 110 dB SPL. It is hard to get peaks higher than 3 dB above 0 dBFS.
So, it is enough even in the case when we have a movie set to 106 dB SPL.
It will be able to play the loudest, explosive parts of the movie easily, with power and transparency, because it has low THD, IMD, etc. at this levels.
And it plays such fragments exactly this way, but this is much much less than 10 or 20 W!


----------



## sahmen

zhgutov said:


> I am not an electrical engineer too. Maybe someone will disagree with me, and will explain why.
> 
> HE-6 need ~500 mW to get 110 dB SPL. It is hard to get peaks higher than 3 dB above 0 dBFS.
> So, it is enough even in the case when we have a movie set to 106 dB SPL.
> ...


Since you bring up the extraordinarily hard to drive He-6 (50 ohms, 83.5db sensitivity), I wonder if you can help me determine what pre-gain setting would be ideal to drive it optimally.  Currently, I use mine on the unity gain setting, and get to comfortable loudness levels at 11-12 o'clock on the volume dial.  I like the way the he-6 sounds overall with these settings except for the bass, which sounds ever-so-slightly underextended, as compared to when the He-6 is playing either on my Bryston 2b LP via speaker taps, or on my Audiogd NFB1 amp.  It is not really a problem I can't live with, as the bass is adequate at that level, and the rest of the frequency spectrum sounds sufficiently balanced.  However, given the power and quality of the V281, I wonder whether I can draw a slightly more weighty bass response from it if I were to tweak the pre-gain settings a bit, either by increasing or reducing them by a few decibels.  Up to this point, I have only ever used the V281 at unity gain.


----------



## sahmen

sahmen said:


> Here's a first response from Violectric USA to this query... He doesn't think the deterioration always occurs, but he needs to crosscheck my case with Fried and get back to me:
> 
> *************
> *"...I'm not sure I'll have to ask Fried who designed it.
> ...



I have been told that Fried might post a response to this inquiry on this thread, and I can't wait to read what he has to say.


----------



## zhgutov

sahmen said:


> Since you bring up the extraordinarily hard to drive He-6 (50 ohms, 83.5db sensitivity), I wonder if you can help me determine what pre-gain setting would be ideal to drive it optimally.  Currently, I use mine on the unity gain setting, and get to comfortable loudness levels at 11-12 o'clock on the volume dial.  I like the way the he-6 sounds overall with these settings except for the bass, which sounds ever-so-slightly underextended, as compared to when the He-6 is playing either on my Bryston 2b LP via speaker taps, or on my Audiogd NFB1 amp.  It is not really a problem I can't live with, as the bass is adequate at that level, and the rest of the frequency spectrum sounds sufficiently balanced.  However, given the power and quality of the V281, I wonder whether I can draw a slightly more weighty bass response from it if I were to tweak the pre-gain settings a bit, either by increasing or reducing them by a few decibels.  Up to this point, I have only ever used the V281 at unity gain.


Looks like you have perfect gain settings already.

As I remember, you have standard volume control on V281, right?

Unfortunately, I have not heard Bryston 2b LP or Audiogd NFB1.
What do you mean about underextended bass?
What do you mean about more weighty bass?

Have you tried to localize the problem?
Do you use the same DAC/outputs when you compare this units?
Do you have the same bass with both units, and different bass with V281?
Do you have the same loudness when you compare this units?


----------



## sahmen

zhgutov said:


> Looks like you have perfect gain settings already.
> 
> As I remember, you have standard volume control on V281, right?
> 
> ...


By "underextended," I simply mean that the bass on the He-6/V281 combo sounds just a wee bit thinner, and hits with slightly less impact when compared to either the He-6/NFB1amp or He-6 Bryston 2b LP combos. The NFB1amp is paired with an Audiogd Reference 5.32 DAC with the Amanero combo USB module installed on it, and the Amanero seems to have given the bass more enhancement, although the Audiogd DAC/Amp combo's bass with the He-6 has always been satisfactory.

The Bryston 2b LP is a 60 WPS speaker amp, which I often pair with my Emotiva DC-1 for use with the He-6, using the amp's speaker taps.  The sound from the speaker taps has more weight and impact than the sound which comes out of the amp's headphone jack for the He-6.  In this combination, I think the He-6 derives much of its viscerally impactful characteristics from the Bryston.

I do not mean to suggest that the V281 is inadequate for the job, as it drives the He-6 very well in all other respects.  I'd probably not think anything was amiss, if I was not familiar with the way the He-6 sounds on the two other amps.  Consciously or unconsciously, I tend to compare the He-6's bass impact on the V281, with its impact on the Bryston and the Audiogd amps, and that is what creates that effect of slightly light bass.  Sometimes, I wish that tendency to compare didn't exist, frankly, but I can't help it.


----------



## zhgutov

sahmen said:


> By "underextended," I simply mean that the bass on the He-6/V281 combo sounds just a wee bit thinner, and hits with slightly less impact when compared to either the He-6/NFB1amp or He-6 Bryston 2b LP combos. The NFB1amp is paired with an Audiogd Reference 5.32 DAC with the Amanero combo USB module installed on it, and the Amanero seems to have given the bass more enhancement, although the Audiogd DAC/Amp combo's bass with the He-6 has always been satisfactory.
> 
> The Bryston 2b LP is a 60 WPS speaker amp, which I often pair with my Emotiva DC-1 for use with the He-6, using the amp's speaker taps.  The sound from the speaker taps has more weight and impact than the sound which comes out of the amp's headphone jack for the He-6.  In this combination, I think the He-6 derives much of its viscerally impactful characteristics from the Bryston.
> 
> I do not mean to suggest that the V281 is inadequate for the job, as it drives the He-6 very well in all other respects.  I'd probably not think anything was amiss, if I was not familiar with the way the He-6 sounds on the two other amps.  Consciously or unconsciously, I tend to compare the He-6's bass impact on the V281, with its impact on the Bryston and the Audiogd amps, and that is what creates that effect of slightly light bass.  Sometimes, I wish that tendency to compare didn't exist, frankly, but I can't help it.


So, it looks like you have different sources for the different amps, right?
Can you compare this amps with the one source and outputs (for example, the same RCA out and the cable for everything)?
And with the same loudness.
If you don't have a measurement equipment to match loudness, you can make a series of comparisons with the slightly different volumes, where one of the amps achieves slightly more loudness, then another amp achieves slightly more loudness, and so on..


----------



## ostewart

My review is up, I'll post it on head-fi in a couple of days: http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2017/10/review-violectric-v281-fully-balanced.html


----------



## FumblingFoo (Oct 6, 2017)

ostewart said:


> My review is up, I'll post it on head-fi in a couple of days: http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2017/10/review-violectric-v281-fully-balanced.html



Awesome review @ostewart, especially with the Hifiman Susvara headphones . It nice to see more reviews on the v281 rolling in; it's indeed a really nice amp .


----------



## ostewart

FumblingFoo said:


> Awesome review @ostewart . It nice to see more reviews on the v281 rolling in; it's indeed a really nice amp .



It's a shame I don't have any higher end amps on me. I was listening to the Sennheiser HDVD 820 today, and the Violectric it better, but the Sennheiser is more flexible.

Violectric doesn't really colour the sound, it has a black background and very transparent sound yet still sounds superbly natural.

The Sennheiser is slightly smoother sounding and not quite as transparent.


----------



## FumblingFoo (Oct 6, 2017)

ostewart said:


> It's a shame I don't have any higher end amps on me. I was listening to the Sennheiser HDVD 820 today, and the Violectric it better, but the Sennheiser is more flexible.
> 
> Violectric doesn't really colour the sound, it has a black background and very transparent sound yet still sounds superbly natural.
> 
> The Sennheiser is slightly smoother sounding and not quite as transparent.



Yeah, same here. The next best thing I have to compare it to is the Lyr 2 / Bifrost Uber, which is still a killer combo especially with nice tubes, but the v281 is still in another league imo (I used to think the two sounded the same until I got more practice listening). I notice with the v281, probably because of its transparency, low distortion, and excellent overall performance, it seems to be able to bring out the particular character very well of each headphone I try. This was a lot more noticeable when I added the DAT RS 05 to the stack.


----------



## Fegefeuer

This thread really exploded recently, nice to see users going very indepth, also about their personal preferences. Will update this thread in the next few days and link impressions and important info onto the main page.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ostewart said:


> My review is up, I'll post it on head-fi in a couple of days: http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2017/10/review-violectric-v281-fully-balanced.html



Nice review!!


----------



## 13713

Fegefeuer said:


> This thread really exploded recently, nice to see users going very indepth, also about their personal preferences. Will update this thread in the next few days and link impressions and important info onto the main page.



We are a passionate bunch of oddballs that have spent a lot of time with this equipment. An updated OP would be very welcome indeed.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ostewart said:


> It's a shame I don't have any higher end amps on me. I was listening to the Sennheiser HDVD 820 today, and the Violectric it better, but the Sennheiser is more flexible.
> 
> Violectric doesn't really colour the sound, it has a black background and very transparent sound yet still sounds superbly natural.
> 
> The Sennheiser is slightly smoother sounding and not quite as transparent.



I have compared the V281 extensively over the months vs:

Liquid Carbon v2.0
Audio GD SA-31SE
Lake People G109-A
M Stage HPA-1
Burson Soloist (the big amp/preamp model with 4W/Ch), since sold
It has easily the most flexible & configurable I/O + gain features I've ever seen. And the very granular gain adjustments (both for headphones & line out) became extremely useful, given that unity gain was far too much gain for my system in every way.

I won't run down the whole laundry list of comparisions & respective strengthsf/weakness. Suffice to say the V281 really has no weaknesses. I'm extremely impressed w/it in just about every way. I'm having some annoyance issues w/the stepped pot that will fairly soon prompt to sent it to Violectric U.S. for repair or replacement. It's an essential audio tool--I can't be without it, even though I have other amps.

Also, based on some recent comments in this thread, I will soon experiment w/running balanced line outputs direct to my powered monitors (ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7s) + the RCA line outs to my SVS SB-1000 sub. The manual subtly discourages concurrent use of these outputs, but apparently some people do that anyway, w/good results.


----------



## 13713

Pharmaboy said:


> Also, based on some recent comments in this thread, I will soon experiment w/running balanced line outputs direct to my powered monitors (ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7s) + the RCA line outs to my SVS SB-1000 sub. The manual subtly discourages concurrent use of these outputs, but apparently some people do that anyway, w/good results.


I am interested in your results and eagerly anticipate the write-up.


----------



## ostewart

Fegefeuer said:


> This thread really exploded recently, nice to see users going very indepth, also about their personal preferences. Will update this thread in the next few days and link impressions and important info onto the main page.



Feel free to link my review, now on Head-Fi: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/violectric-hpa-v281.20048/reviews#review-19288


----------



## zek4u (Oct 9, 2017)

I ended up separating out my 2 channel from my headphone listening as my room was really the issue. Bay windows are never good.  To me, "Fixed-Out/Pre-fader path" sounded the best but maybe if I had the upgraded volume pot, things would have been different. When I hooked up my dac to my integrated amp and used the tape outs to the V281, the loss in quality was noticeable when listening to headphones on the V281.

I've been experimenting with Sony's NW-WM1A walkman to my V281. Unbalanced over a decent Wireworld Eclipse 3.5mm to the V281s RCA jacks has been really good. Couldn't stop listening to it for 3+hours! Not quite as organic as the 2Qute but more resolution. Read in a few reviews that the balanced output on the NW-WM1A is way better. Have a balanced Black Dragon 4.4mm Pentaconn to dual XLR cable on the way for the V281. Only issue with the NW-WM1A is you can't use it as a USB DAC. Nuts. Have to transfer all my music to the unit but as least it's battery powered and I don't have to worry about buying another media server/expensive USB cable/power supplies. I already bought a Black Dragon 4.4mm Pentaconn balanced cable to 4pin XLRs adapter. With this adapter, the HD800S sound really nice directly out of the NW-WM1A but running unbalanced to the V281 is quite a bit better. Can't wait to run balanced. NW-WM1A only does native DSD over the balanced output. Did you know that Sony is using FPGA DACs in their NW-WM1A DAP and Sony TA-ZH1ES headphone amp (field-programmable gate array).  Chord, you better watch out   Lake People product request: +1 for a FPGA DAC card and/or stand alone DAC with DSD/MQA capabilities.


----------



## fdg

*About line in- and outputs, levels, impedances and cables between.*

The past days this thread experienced a lively discussion amongst other things about the line outputs of HPA V281, their quality and if they are about to alter the sound – and if yes to the better or to the worse.
My opinion is that the line outputs from V220 / V281 are altering the sound by at least a very very small fraction (if any) because we worked hard to amend the signals as little as possible.

The key to unaltered sound is to take care about the impedances.
The output impedance of every electronic output shall be kept as low as possible, about 30 ohms or less. The input impedance of the following input shall be reasonably high, about 5 kOhm or more.
By doing so, all involved components – output circuitry, cable, input circuitry - will act as transparent as possible.
Also the overall gain should be as low as possible, the output level should be reasonable and preferably match the following stage and of course the frequency range should be sufficiently wide.
A low output impedance can only be made electronically with some active circuitry, mostly an op-amp or a discrete circuitry similar to an op-amp.
Any resistor in the output line will increase the output impedance and so make the output signal and the cable to the following unit sensitive for frequency alterations, EMC problems and other issues. 

Remember: The higher the output impedance the higher the influence of the cable.
Don’t waste money for “sophisticated” cables but invest in low impedance outputs.

As a result from the above a passive attenuator will not work (never !!), because its output is variable and high impedance state.
Yes, some may claim that it sounds better - but its only sounding different !

Also, splitting cables should be avoided (driving two inputs from one output) as the generated impedance mismatches cannot be controlled.    

To deal with high levels, the analog circuitry needs an appropriate operating voltage: 
For about +21 dBu (approx. 9 Veff) analog level a supply voltage of +/- 15 volt is needed
For about +23 dBu (approx. 11 Veff) analog level a supply voltage of +/- 18 volts is needed
For about +24 dBu (approx. 12 Veff) analog level a supply voltage of +/- 20 V is needed.
Unfortunately many of the “sophisticated” op-amps and transistorized op-amp supplements are only suited for +/- 15 V. Also, the distortions will rise noticeably the closer the signal comes to the limits defined by the operating voltage. 

Now you may ask yourself: why there are these high levels from (professional) D/A converters while my (consumer) CD player outputs about +4/+6 dBu.

An answer is the different (professional) conversion standards from digital levels to analog levels.
The US standard (SMPTE RP 155) define the digital full scale level (0 dBFs) to be translated into +24 dB analog level.  The European Broadcasters (EBU R68) are translating 0 dBFs to be +18 dBu while the German Broadcasters (IRT) are converting the same digital level to be +15 dBu.

So, some equipment claiming to be made to “professional” standards will output +24 dBu analog level which may perhaps override the inputs of the subsequent (consumer) equipment or is on the edge to considerable distortion.

Some of these units/manufacturers don´t care for “consumer” needs and do nothing.
Some are adding passive attenuators to lower the level – what is the wrong measure because 
it scales up the output impedance (see above).
Some are adapting the analog level in an active way, preserving the low output impedance.
Guess what we do at Lake people / Violectric.

Please note that all D/A converter chips are powered from 5 V or less single supply voltage. So the maximum output level of such chips is +8 dBu or lower.
When a D/A converter outputs +24 dBu this means that the signal is boosted by at least +16 dB inside the unit, raising probably hiss and noise - to be unnecessarily attenuated in an appropriate way to fit the following equipment …  

Coming back to HPA V281 and most other lake People and Violectric gear and the treatment of the line output signals I want to make clear that we had the above problems in mind and engineered our input/output circuitry as optimal and variable as possible.
Our line outputs have very low impedances ( < 1 Ohm).
The output levels are adaptable by dip-switches or multi-turn attenuators to match the subsequent gear. This circuitry is found in front of any output circuitry.
Of course it is imaginable that a power-amp and speaker or active speaker will sound different through other devices – but if this is “better” or “worse” are personal preferences.
We do our best not to change anything !


----------



## Badas

^

Nice post. 

The more I use the V281 the more I realize it is a masterpiece. 
I use Ether Flow (with elctro pads) and V281 with all switches (external and Internal) set to their lowest gains. 
Volume goes to the 10-11 O'clock position. Wonderful sound.


----------



## sahmen

Thanks Fried : That is indeed a tour-de-force in well thought out explications, one which seems to break everything down about line level inputs and outputs, related questions of input/output impedance, and interconnects.  There is a wealth of information in that post about these particular features that far exceeds what one can find in the manuals of the two units mentioned. Thanks, and much obliged!  Yet, because of my own lack of technical expertise, I feel there are parts of the post that have gone over my head, and wish there were someone else who could explicate/translate those parts to me in simpler more layman terms.

Still, this is me expressing my appreciation, rather than being un ungrateful pain...  I truly feel lucky to own a machine like the V281. Thanks again.


----------



## Pharmaboy

fdg said:


> *About line in- and outputs, levels, impedances and cables between.*
> 
> The past days this thread experienced a lively discussion amongst other things about the line outputs of HPA V281, their quality and if they are about to alter the sound – and if yes to the better or to the worse.
> My opinion is that the line outputs from V220 / V281 are altering the sound by at least a very very small fraction (if any) because we worked hard to amend the signals as little as possible.
> ...



Thanks for a comprehensive post! There is so much information here, that I keep reading & re-reading it. 

Besides the amazing sound, the best thing about the V281 IMO is its very flexible & diverse input/output features, adjustments, etc. Also the very granular gain adjustments, separate for headphone outs vs line outs. Never saw another line level audio product with this much flexibility.

Now I have to ask you a question that has been on my mind ever since I got powered monitors w/balanced inputs (Zenpro modded Yamaha HS7s): *can I use the XLR outputs simultaneously w/the RCA outputs to power the Yamahas (XLRs) and powered SVS SB-100 sub (RCAs)?* 

The manual suggests this may result in degraded sound; but I understand some users use these outputs simultaneously w/good results & no apparent sonic degradation.

I powered the Yamahas directly from the XLR outs one time (w/the sub not connected), and got the best sound I've heard so far w/the Yamahas. So I'd love to be able to do that 24/7, but w/the RCAs driving the sub.

No matter what your answer is, I'm a very happy V281 user!


----------



## sahmen (Oct 11, 2017)

zhgutov said:


> So, it looks like you have different sources for the different amps, right?
> Can you compare this amps with the one source and outputs (for example, the same RCA out and the cable for everything)?
> And with the same loudness.
> If you don't have a measurement equipment to match loudness, you can make a series of comparisons with the slightly different volumes, where one of the amps achieves slightly more loudness, then another amp achieves slightly more loudness, and so on..


Sorry that these questions escaped my attention.  Yes I do have different sources for the different amps.  I normally use the V281 with the Schiit Yggdrasil, the Audiogd NFB1amp, with an Audiogd Reference 5.32 with the Amanero USB module installed, the Bryston 2b LP with an Emotiva DC-1, and a Cavalli Liquid Carbon with a Metrum Acoustics Hex.  You're indeed right that switching and doing different Amp/DAC permutations within these four pairings might generate some different interesting results for the He-6.  For example, I tried pairing the Audiogd Ref. 5.32 with the Bryston once, and the results were pretty bad, not just for the He-6, but for some of my other cans as well.  I do not know whether it was caused by a mismatched input/output impedance between the two units, or by some other technical deficiency, but I was convinced after about 5 minutes that this particular pairing was a bad idea.  I would really like to experiment with different pairings, but that is going to take a lot of spare time I do not have yet.  I am still keeping these experiments on my to-do list for the future.t  In the meantime, the V281 pairs very well with the Yggdrasil for my all other needs, including listening other cans and to live speakers, so I do not think I am missing out on much with my present set ups.


----------



## simomat

I am selling my unit with stepped attenuator and XMOS USB. 
It's on the classifieds.

PM if interested.


----------



## fdg

Pharmaboy said:


> Now I have to ask you a question that has been on my mind ever since I got powered monitors w/balanced inputs (Zenpro modded Yamaha HS7s): *can I use the XLR outputs simultaneously w/the RCA outputs to power the Yamahas (XLRs) and powered SVS SB-100 sub (RCAs)?*



While Violectric V630, V800 and V850 offer dedicated drivers for the balanced and unbalanced outputs,
V600, V220 and V281 do not. Here the unbalanced outputs are derived (connected in parallel) from the In-Phase signals of the balanced outputs.
According to my post concerning the structure of line outputs this may lead to problems - but it must not.
The issues are not that much based on the line outputs as these are very low impedance types.
The are more caused by the input impedances of the following equipment which may interact between each other.
My recommendation: check it out and hear what´s happening. 
Normally the influences a so small that they won´t be heard.
You can´t destroy anything electrical, only the sound may be affected.
Cheers, Fried


----------



## Ultrainferno

Our interview series continues. This week we chatted with Fried Reim. CEO of Violectric and LakePeople

https://www.headfonia.com/q-n-a-saturday-violectric/


----------



## Pharmaboy

fdg said:


> While Violectric V630, V800 and V850 offer dedicated drivers for the balanced and unbalanced outputs,
> V600, V220 and V281 do not. Here the unbalanced outputs are derived (connected in parallel) from the In-Phase signals of the balanced outputs.
> According to my post concerning the structure of line outputs this may lead to problems - but it must not.
> The issues are not that much based on the line outputs as these are very low impedance types.
> ...



Thanks for a most informative & even-handed reply! I will try it. Ears never lie...

I have a sneaking suspicion the V281 could power an arc welding & industrial hair-dryers while simulteously driving everything on my desktop to perfection. However, I won't be testing those "extreme applications" anytime soon!


----------



## Pharmaboy

Ultrainferno said:


> Our interview series continues. This week we chatted with Fried Reim. CEO of Violectric and LakePeople
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/q-n-a-saturday-violectric/



Terrific interview w/one of my favorite company's top man in the U.S. This is a must-read for anyone who's interested in quality headphone amplification.

My favorite part: "When you attend classic concerts you will recognize that live sound is far from being as bright as the recording and the headphone manufactures make us believe."

Such a relief to see this said out-loud/in print. Overly bright gear has dogged me for decades, first in the big living audiophile systems, and now in desktop audio & headphone systems. The great popularity of overly "accurate," "clinical" gear has always mystified me. It sounds nothing like what the symphony or chamber orchestra sounds in a well-designed, acoustically sound hall. 

On the other hand, Violectric & Lake People equipment (I own the V281 and the G109-A) sound *very much like the real thing*. This is visionary & courageous on the part of Mr. Reim--to be truthful to the real thing, despite the popularity of an opposite/paradoxical sonic preference in transducers...


----------



## davidespinosa (Oct 14, 2017)

Pharmaboy said:


> Terrific interview w/one of my favorite company's top man in the U.S.



Violectric is located in Germany:
http://www.violectric.de/contact.html

Some info about the city:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstanz


----------



## Pharmaboy

Didn't that...

Just realized I got him confused w/Arthur from Violectric USA. Sorry Fried & Arthur!


----------



## sahmen

fdg said:


> While Violectric V630, V800 and V850 offer dedicated drivers for the balanced and unbalanced outputs,
> V600, V220 and V281 do not. Here the unbalanced outputs are derived (connected in parallel) from the In-Phase signals of the balanced outputs.
> According to my post concerning the structure of line outputs this may lead to problems - but it must not.
> The issues are not that much based on the line outputs as these are very low impedance types.
> ...




Now that's a relief!  With my V281's Balanced XLR line outputs operating in Pre Fader/Fixed mode and feeding a pair of external monoblock amps via a pre pro,  I hear no difference/deterioration in SQ when I use the RCA/SE line outputs to feed, simultaneously, a couple of Power Sound Audio powered subwoofers.  All bass management is done on the subs themselves, and I get glorious and well-balanced full range 2.1 channel stereo music from my L/R front speakers and subs with bass management.  I was a bit anxious about this set up owing to the warning in the V281 manual about using both balanced and unbalanced line outputs simultaneously, and am now very pleased to find out that the anxiety is unfounded, as the current set up enables me to exploit the versatility of the unit as an awesome SS headphone amp, and as an extremely transparent pre amp of sorts for 2-channel speaker listening, with an excellent workaround for getting Subwoofer bass functionality with bass management...  What more could I guy want?


----------



## ardilla

Ultrainferno said:


> Our interview series continues. This week we chatted with Fried Reim. CEO of Violectric and LakePeople
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/q-n-a-saturday-violectric/



Thanks - A great read! 

I like that he is using the LCD-2 rev.1 - It's something special about that one - will be exiting to see how it compares to the "relaunched" LCD-2C


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## Badas

For the first time I've used the V281 as a pre-amp. 
Why haven't I done this before????

Sounds incredible.

I wanted remote volume control into my tube amp (Woo WA22). 
So I had a light bulb moment and decided to wire the V281 as a pre-amp and use the V281's volume control.
I wasn't expecting it to make the WA22 sound even smoother and clearer. Woo WA22 has never sounded so great.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Badas said:


> For the first time I've used the V281 as a pre-amp.
> Why haven't I done this before????
> 
> Sounds incredible.
> ...



I couldn't agree more. The V281 is a superb preamp. I have 3 headphone amp/preamps to choose from, but the V281 is the best: my powered studio monitors + sub never sounded so strong in the lower registers, clean & dynamic, top to bottom.

When I get out of the sling from upcoming shoulder surgery, I'll do a preamp experiment I've been wanting to try: connect the powered monitors directly from the L/R XLR outputs; and the sub directly from the L/R RCA outputs. Sub gain balancing vs monitors is done by the sub's controls to begin with; the V281's volume pot will adjust the entire system up/down. 

I already tried the direct XLR connection once before, but w/the sub out of the system. It was the best sound I ever got from these monitors (Zenpro modded Yamaha HS7s). And I've already used the abundant gain controls on the V281 (separate banks for line out vs headphone) to gain-balance the whole, rather complicated system.

The V281 is an amazing example of audio engineering. It sounds great and can do just about anything you want it to do...


----------



## shapeshifter44

I know there are many threads talking about pairing with HD800/HD800S. Just wondering, in summary, how would you guys rank the V281, Woo WA22 and Woo WA5 pairing with HD800/800S. Thanks


----------



## shapeshifter44

Badas said:


> Congrats!
> 
> You are going to be very happy.
> 
> ...


For HD800S, how is V281 compared to WA5LE? Thanks.


----------



## 13713

shapeshifter44 said:


> For HD800S, how is V281 compared to WA5LE? Thanks.



At this point you are comparing apples and oranges. SS and Tubes are very different beasts. Have you listened to the WA5LE? What components are in it? Is it upgraded?


----------



## shapeshifter44

13713 said:


> At this point you are comparing apples and oranges. SS and Tubes are very different beasts. Have you listened to the WA5LE? What components are in it? Is it upgraded?


I only have WA22. Want to buy either V281 or WA5LE as my next amp.


----------



## 13713

shapeshifter44 said:


> I only have WA22. Want to buy either V281 or WA5LE as my next amp.



Have you listened to a V281 I mean honestly I cannot recommend blind purchases in this price range without an audition or a great return policy. The WA5LE is pure magic and I personally own a V281/V850 stack. With that said my bias of course is with the V281 as I purchased it and have used it since late 2015. It is paired with HD-800 connected with a Forza balanced cable. I enjoy my setup a lot and would recommend it to anyone but I really do suggest an audition with the equipment before purchase. The amps you mentioned are in completely different price ranges as well... What is your end goal? What are you looking for? Is this a transition to something greater or are you keeping it? What other headphones will you be using with the setup?


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## 13713

double post.


----------



## Badas

shapeshifter44 said:


> For HD800S, how is V281 compared to WA5LE? Thanks.



It was far too long ago to comment now. 

At the time I liked the V281 better. However the WA5 was fitted with what I call lean tubes. A little on the dry side. 
I might have liked the WA5 better with different tubes.


----------



## attmci

Badas said:


> It was far too long ago to comment now.
> 
> At the time I liked the V281 better. However the WA5 was fitted with what I call lean tubes. A little on the dry side.
> I might have liked the WA5 better with different tubes.


nice to see u still around. 

u move to a WA5?


----------



## shapeshifter44

13713 said:


> Have you listened to a V281 I mean honestly I cannot recommend blind purchases in this price range without an audition or a great return policy. The WA5LE is pure magic and I personally own a V281/V850 stack. With that said my bias of course is with the V281 as I purchased it and have used it since late 2015. It is paired with HD-800 connected with a Forza balanced cable. I enjoy my setup a lot and would recommend it to anyone but I really do suggest an audition with the equipment before purchase. The amps you mentioned are in completely different price ranges as well... What is your end goal? What are you looking for? Is this a transition to something greater or are you keeping it? What other headphones will you be using with the setup?


I use HD800S only and I listen to classical music only (symphony and piano). I found that I am very lazy about finding quality tubes (with reasonable price) for my WA22 currently. I don't want to spend much on tubes for WA22 because I think even with awesome tubes, WA22 still cannot be as good as WA5LE. So, for now, I am deciding either take V281 as my final amp and stop spending time/money searching tubes or take WA5LE as my final amp and then spend more money on tubes in the future.


----------



## Badas

attmci said:


> nice to see u still around.
> 
> u move to a WA5?



Still around. Read all the time and comment less. 

I still have WA22 and V281. 
I really like the V281 as a pre-amp to the WA22.
It sounds cleaner, smoother and warmer. 

V281 by itself is stunning.


----------



## shapeshifter44

Badas said:


> Still around. Read all the time and comment less.
> 
> I still have WA22 and V281.
> I really like the V281 as a pre-amp to the WA22.
> ...


Thanks. I guess I may only keep one due to economic condition.


----------



## phase0

shapeshifter44 said:


> Thanks. I guess I may only keep one due to economic condition.



If I could only have one amp, I'd take the V281. I'm not the best to comment on the HD800 as I never owned them. I never really liked them anyways. I just got the Abyss Phi today. From my vague memory I'd say ditch the HD800 immediately and buy an Abyss right now.

The V281 all the amp you need. I love the WA5 but for the amount of money you need to spend (factor in need to upgrade tubes and experiment a bit to find what you like), it's not an economically efficient solution. You also get press the "on" button and a couple seconds later you're ready to go w/ the V281. Tube amps need a little time to warm up. If you are crazy or rich enough (I think I fall into crazy camp), a good tube system is a beautiful thing to have at the ready.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> If I could only have one amp, I'd take the V281. I'm not the best to comment on the HD800 as I never owned them. I never really liked them anyways. I just got the Abyss Phi today. From my vague memory I'd say ditch the HD800 immediately and buy an Abyss right now.
> 
> The V281 all the amp you need. I love the WA5 but for the amount of money you need to spend (factor in need to upgrade tubes and experiment a bit to find what you like), it's not an economically efficient solution. You also get press the "on" button and a couple seconds later you're ready to go w/ the V281. Tube amps need a little time to warm up. If you are crazy or rich enough (I think I fall into crazy camp), a good tube system is a beautiful thing to have at the ready.



+1

Yeah. If I had one amp it would be the V281. So close to a tube amp sound without the tube hassle.


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## gonzfi

Some help if possible.... I have a line out function from my dell monitor which I use straight to the rca inputs of my v281. In turn the v281 is a pre amp to my power amp which has no volume control. The volume seems to be set incredibly high when using the amp despite the volume on the v281 being set to zero and I cannot change it. It is zero when using headphones strangely and I can then increase the volume as I see fit. Any idea how I can control the volume through the power amp?


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## PleasantSounds

check the PRE-POST FADER or FIXED-VARIABLE section in the manual, page 21


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## gonzfi

Thanks all now sorted.


----------



## Furch

Anyone ever heard V281 pairing with Benchmark ahb2? I live in country there is no Benchmark's dealer so I can't test it with my own ears.
I plan to use int.amp or power amp with V281 for my Dynaudio S40 or should I go for another amp?
Please educate me.


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## chungjun

Silly question but if you have the 128-step attenuator with remote, would adjusting the volume knob manually (i.e. by hand and 90% of the time) have an adverse effect?


----------



## chungjun

By the way, I'm on a look out to buy a V281... if anyone has one to let go, drop me a PM please. Thanks!

Listed as wanted:-
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wanted-violectric-hpa-v281-singapore-wtb.863875/


----------



## fdg

chungjun said:


> Silly question but if you have the 128-step attenuator with remote, would adjusting the volume knob manually (i.e. by hand and 90% of the time) have an adverse effect?


It does not matter if you turn the volume control by hand or by motor/remote.
There is a clutch in between so you may even stop the motorized action or reverse the rotation by hand.
You cant harm the mechanism !!
Unfortunately it is not made in Germany but in Japan ... 
Cheers, Fried


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## zhgutov (Nov 5, 2017)

[offtopic - answered]


----------



## PHC1

How well does the V281 pair with Focal Utopia?


----------



## watchdog507

PHC1 said:


> How well does the V281 pair with Focal Utopia?



Great! Super detailed with crisp treble effortless midrange and bass


----------



## JeffMann (Nov 9, 2017)

My present audio system is as follows-: PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport => Matrix Sabre-X Pro DAC => Violectric V281 headphone amplifier => HE1000 headphone (via a balanced XLR cable).

I am thinking of upgrading my HE1000 to a Susvara headphone model and I am wondering whether the V281 has enough power to effortlessly drive that more insensitive headphone. Also, what would be the best setting? I presently have my Matrix X-Sabre Pro DAC volume control set at -18db and my V281 set at zero gain and that allows me to have the volume control at ~12 o-clock. If I use the more insensitive Susvara headphone, should I set the DAC volume control to zero or should I set the V281's pre-gain setting to +12db - presuming that I want to optimize the sound quality?

Jeff.


----------



## zhgutov

JeffMann said:


> My present audio system is as follows-: PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport => Matrix Sabre-X Pro DAC => Violectric V281 headphone amplifier => HE1000 headphone (via a balanced XLR cable).
> 
> I am thinking of upgrading my HE1000 to a Susvara headphone model and I am wondering whether the V281 has enough power to effortlessly drive that more insensitive headphone. Also, what would be the best setting? I presently have my Matrix X-Sabre Pro DAC volume control set at -18db and my V281 set at zero gain and that allows me to have the volume control at ~12 o-clock. If I use the more insensitive Susvara headphone, should I set the DAC volume control to zero or should I set the V281's pre-gain setting to +12db - presuming that I want to optimize the sound quality?
> 
> Jeff.


I think it is good to set your DAC to "DAC" mode with the maximum output level, which is 4.5 V RMS or ~15 dBu via XLR, according to specification.
In this case you should get the perfect match with Susvara @ 0 dB pre-gain. @ostewart has written the review with V281 and Susvara. We can ask him about the impressions.


----------



## Pharmaboy

*V281 update: *just rewired my desktop system to test a feature of the V281 that's been discussed here -- its ability (or maybe not so able) to drive the L+R RCA outputs at the same time as the L+R 3-pin XLR outputs. This is how it's wired as of this morning:

RCA L+R outputs from the DAC (Audio GD NOS 19) connected to RCA L+R inputs on V281
RCA L+R outputs from V281 connected to inputs of subwoofer (SVS SB-1000 w/crossover set to 80Hz)
3-pin XLR L+R outputs from the V281 connected to the L/R inputs of the monitors (Zenpro modded Yamaha HS7s)

I know going into this experiment that the sub vs monitors balancing may be out of whack (ie, their respective volume levels). We'll see how far off it is (if at all) when I crank the system later today. The other way the balancing may be out of whack is that the HS7s are now run full-range (before they were getting line level signal from the crossover >80Hz). Full-range sound out of the HS7s + regular subwoofer output may put a "hump" in the bass below 80Hz. Or not: the HS7s are described as losing volume below ~80 Hz, with the falloff per octave in the manner of any ported design.

There is one theoretical benefit of this rewiring scheme that I may already be hearing--fewer electronics in the chain. Before today, I obtained a balanced signal for the HS7s by running the RCA L+R outputs through a single ended-to-balanced converter (Aphex 124A, well regarded by music studio types). I believe that converter sounds pretty good to begin with--I wired the HS7s direct from its balanced outputs once & got the best sound I've yet heard from them--but now that the Aphex 124A is out of the chain, the HS7s' sound may improve a little. Listening to classical music low-volume now; definitely hearing that midrange clarity & details these monitors are known for. 

(more to follow)


----------



## denwenz

I would like to purchase a V281.  I will be using the amp with sennheiser hd-800 headphones. I am still undecided about whether to purchase the amp with the standard volume control or the $589 option of the relay with remote control.  My only concern is if I will be able to hear sonic differences with the upgraded option-would appreciate any feedback folks have about the sonic differences between the upgraded volume control and the standard one-thanks


----------



## Ekul61 (Nov 15, 2017)

through all my research to upgrade my Asgard 2 paired with the sennnhieser 800S. It always comes back to the 281 or 280. 
The Asgard 2 is a very cold amp. I definitely need more warmth. 
Sorry but I have too ask 1 more time as $2g on a amp is a big decision ..
Can I achieve substantial warmth upgrade of my Asgard (inexpensive solid state)  with the purchase of the 281?
Thanks.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Ekul61 said:


> Most likely will make the move in the next couple days of a 281 or 280.  One last question. I've never read a review of a inexpensive amp vs an expensive amp.   The purchase will immediately be used with the hp800S ,fiiox5 ( dac and source). Flac files.
> The Asgard 2 is a little cold.  Will the 281 warm the sound  much?



I wouldn't call my v280 'warm', more like neutral.  I haven't heard the Asgard, but from reviews, I'm surprised to see you describe it as 'cold'.  Every review or impression I read calls it 'neutral/warmish', or 'warm'.  Mind you, I love my Violectric, but... that's a lot of coin to spend if it doesn't improve the sound of your rig.  I wonder if the cold you're hearing is coming from a different part of your chain.

I believe you have HD-800.  That could be where the of coldness you're hearing is coming from.  You might add some warmth with copper cables.  I picked up some copper cables for my Utopia, which seems to have taken a bit of brightness out vs stock cables. Subtle but noticeable to my ears. Although the after market cables are balanced, and the stock are SE, so that;'s very likely a bigger source of the difference.

Just my 2 cents worth (and probably over-priced at that).


----------



## Pharmaboy

Ekul61 said:


> through all my research to upgrade my Asgard 2 paired with the sennnhieser 800S. It always comes back to the 281 or 280.
> The Asgard 2 is a very cold amp. I definitely need more warmth.
> Sorry but I have too ask 1 more time as $2g on a amp is a big decision ..
> Can I achieve substantial warmth upgrade of my Asgard (inexpensive solid state)  with the purchase of the 281?
> Thanks.



I've never heard the Asgard, so can't contrast V281 to that...

I have the V281 & am totally familiar with it; have heard w/multiple headphones on it, including a couple very good ones; also used it extensively as a preamp. Like many, I would call the V281 "slightly warm," but exactly why that is may interest you:

Some amps and headphones tilt towards a sound that's "clinical," "accurate," "revealing," and yes--bright or cold--so when you run into one that does not to that at all, like the V281, it can sound warm by comparison
But the other reasons are that the V281 has world class bass, top to bottom of the bass spectrum. It also has world class dynamics. And since great dynamics in an amp are often felt most strongly in the bass/lower midrange, these qualities tend to strongly anchor the whole tonality/"voicing" of the V281. 
Actually, the V281 also has really fine treble, but nobody would describe it as "airy" or "delicate" when it's shaking your head.

The treble also exhibits pretty special dynamics. But the effect of a level/not-elevated, and dynamic treble usually isn't brightness or coldness--it sounds to me like a pleasing, soft-to-loud sonic impact that parallels what's happening in the lower ranges.

That's how I hear it (YMMV). But consider this: when you go to see the symphony orchestra or any unamplified ensemble of instruments in a well-designed acoustic space, you'll feel, as well as hear, the impact of bass & lower midrange--and treble doesn't sound cold or bright, just loud or soft. So the V281 nicely mirrors how music sounds/behaves IRL (IMO).


----------



## watchdog507

Pharmaboy said:


> I've never heard the Asgard, so can't contrast V281 to that...
> 
> I have the V281 & am totally familiar with it; have heard w/multiple headphones on it, including a couple very good ones; also used it extensively as a preamp. Like many, I would call the V281 "slightly warm," but exactly why that is may interest you:
> 
> ...



As a V281 owner for almost a year with a Remote and Stepped Volume, I'll concur up to a point.  I find the V281 to be very detailed and comprehensive in presentation.  I don't find it warm.  I find my Woo WA5-LE to be warm.  What you will get is the old adage "garbage in and garbage out"  If you have a poor recording you will be unimpressed with the music.  It's very faithful to the quality of the content. If you have control over the source you should be OK.  I still think that the V281 is one of the relative bargains in the headphone world.  When you look at price/performance.


----------



## Ekul61

Thx above. I have the 800S model.


----------



## zhgutov

watchdog507 said:


> If you have a poor recording you will be unimpressed with the music. It's very faithful to the quality of the content. If you have control over the source you should be OK.


Can not agree with that statement. Probably this depends on the DAC too.
In my case it sounds pretty well with low quality recordings.
You can hear the bads, no masking or added "silky" layer here, but they are not in the front of everything.



Pharmaboy said:


> the V281 also has really fine treble, but nobody would describe it as "airy" or "delicate" when it's shaking your head


I can not agree with that too. It depends on the recording. If it has such qualities, you will perceive it.


----------



## watchdog507

zhgutov said:


> Can not agree with that statement. Probably this depends on the DAC too.
> In my case it sounds pretty well with low quality recordings.
> You can hear the bads, no masking or added "silky" layer here, but they are not in the front of everything.
> 
> ...



This highlights the beauty of our hobby.  Each pair of ears is different.  To get to the posters codicil regarding DAC's.  I use great DAC's with strong resolution.  A Mytek Brooklyn or a PS Audio Directstream with Bridge II and a PS Audio memory player.  I don't find the V281 to add a prominent layer of anything to the music.  There have been many times where I skip a track because it just doesn't sound right to  me. This isn't amp dependant.  I skip the same track when they are played through my WA5.


----------



## zhgutov (Nov 16, 2017)

watchdog507 said:


> There have been many times where I skip a track because it just doesn't sound right to  me.


This is probably different thing than what I mean.
Well, it is hard to explain. It's easier to show an example.
Let's take a low quality recordings from youtube (AAC 128 kbps 44.1 kHz with 15 kHz filter, or even worse).
1. This sounds good in my case, but it is awful in terms of sound quality:

2. This has better sound quality, but is overcompressed near the end:

The first case is what I mean, the second is probably what you mean.
Is it so?

Oops, is there any way not to transform links to "media" automatically?


----------



## watchdog507

I think that we were addressing two different sound quality issues.   If the recording is in a "lossy" format nothing will help it.  You can't recover what is missing.  However I was referring to poor sound engineering. Or just bad decisions by a sound engineer or a producer.  Where the DAC presents it to the amp.  It still sounds terrible.  In this instance, the V281 just amplifies something that sounds like crap.  The other issue that is addressed by some amps is the "smoothing" of a harsh presentation.  I think that DAC design nowadays has taken a lot of the fatigue out of the music.  If you have a fatiguing source the V281 will still amplify it faithfully.


----------



## zhgutov

watchdog507 said:


> I was referring to poor sound engineering. Or just bad decisions by a sound engineer or a producer. Where the DAC presents it to the amp. It still sounds terrible.


Well, I don't know any equipment, which is able to fix this automatically. Does anyone know?


----------



## watchdog507

zhgutov said:


> Well, I don't know any equipment, which is able to fix this automatically. Does anyone know?



My point is that the V281 is true to the source.  It will not add noticeable colouration to the music.


----------



## PHC1

Ekul61 said:


> through all my research to upgrade my Asgard 2 paired with the sennnhieser 800S. It always comes back to the 281 or 280.
> The Asgard 2 is a very cold amp. I definitely need more warmth.
> Sorry but I have too ask 1 more time as $2g on a amp is a big decision ..
> Can I achieve substantial warmth upgrade of my Asgard (inexpensive solid state)  with the purchase of the 281?
> Thanks.


I have the Asgard 2, Valhalla 2 and Bryston BHA-1 that I am currently using with Senn HD600, 650, Focal Elear and Utopia. If you think the Asgard 2 is somehow a cold amp, I would suggest you listen to other headphones as the 800s may be the culprit of your unsatisfaction and chasing "warm" amps may prove futile. The Asgard 2 is a very smooth and slightly laid back Class A headphone amp by comparison to even the Valhalla 2 Triode OTL and Bryston BHA-1


----------



## LCMusicLover

PHC1 said:


> I have the Asgard 2, Valhalla 2 and Bryston BHA-1 that I am currently using with Senn HD600, 650, Focal Elear and Utopia. If you think the Asgard 2 is somehow a cold amp, I would suggest you listen to other headphones as the 800s may be the culprit of your unsatisfaction and chasing "warm" amps may prove futile. The Asgard 2 is a very smooth and slightly laid back Class A headphone amp by comparison to even the Valhalla 2 Triode OTL and Bryston BHA-1



Similar to my opinion earlier.

Key point is that if you really are looking for a warmer amp, v280/281 probably isn't it.  You could try a Liquid Carbon relatively cheaply.  That would give you sense of where you might end up if you travel the 'warmer amp' road. However, it seems unlikely that _any_ amp is going to get you to a 'warm' sound in front of the 800s.  _Warmer_, yes.  _Warm_, probably not.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> Well, I don't know any equipment, which is able to fix this automatically. Does anyone know?



I've never heard of any equipment that's in the consumer realm that could process low bit-rate/low quality music to sound better. There are devices used for similar purposes in recording studios (complex 10+ octave EQ, de-click & other noise shaping digital devices), but these would probably be too expensive & large for the average home office/studio environment.

If you are able to actually download the low bitrate mp3 in question, you maybe be able to use a desktop app (not free) to upsample it--though I kind of doubt this would make a lot of difference (the old "garbage in/garbage out" principal).


----------



## zhgutov

Pharmaboy said:


> I've never heard of any equipment that's in the consumer realm that could process low bit-rate/low quality music to sound better. There are devices used for similar purposes in recording studios (complex 10+ octave EQ, de-click & other noise shaping digital devices), but these would probably be too expensive & large for the average home office/studio environment.


I think more true to source devices may lead to better sound even with low quality recordings when there is no flaws like in the case 2.
There is no simple correlation between signal degradation during recording / mixing / mastering / lossy compression, and signal degradation in different playback systems.

I don't know, may be this is my own bias, but I don't think what hiss, clicks or something like this will always be an issue, and will lead to bad sound.
But I know what some equipment may be harsh or can put such things to your face, and this does not mean greater resolution or quality.
Another equipment may put music to the front. In this case people say that such peace of equipment is "musical", and this does not mean less resolution or quality.



Pharmaboy said:


> If you are able to actually download the low bitrate mp3 in question, you maybe be able to use a desktop app (not free) to upsample it--though I kind of doubt this would make a lot of difference (the old "garbage in/garbage out" principal).


I have hardware resampler, but the resampling itself will not make it sound better.


----------



## zek4u

zhgutov said:


> I think more true to source devices may lead to better sound even with low quality recordings when there is no flaws like in the case 2.
> There is no simple correlation between signal degradation during recording / mixing / mastering / lossy compression, and signal degradation in different playback systems.
> 
> I don't know, may be this is my own bias, but I don't think what hiss, clicks or something like this will always be an issue, and will lead to bad sound.
> ...



My Chord 2Qute doesn't sound bright with my V281/HD800S headphones and sounds great even playing slightly compressed 16/44 redbook. Don't laugh but I've watching Stranger Things via Netflix from my noisy PC to my V281/HD800S headphones using a Peachtree Audio X1 Asynchronous 24/192 USB to SPDIF converter. Not sure what the bit rate is but I'm shocked how good it sounds! It's way better then any surround sound system I've heard. I hear every little detail without it ever sounding irritating or harsh. It's scary good!


----------



## zek4u

Pharmaboy said:


> *V281 update: *just rewired my desktop system to test a feature of the V281 that's been discussed here -- its ability (or maybe not so able) to drive the L+R RCA outputs at the same time as the L+R 3-pin XLR outputs. This is how it's wired as of this morning:
> 
> RCA L+R outputs from the DAC (Audio GD NOS 19) connected to RCA L+R inputs on V281
> RCA L+R outputs from V281 connected to inputs of subwoofer (SVS SB-1000 w/crossover set to 80Hz)
> ...



I ended up with a flatter sounding sealed Vandersteen VLR Wood speakers to use with my Belles Aria integrated amplifier. This is in a near field computer configuration. It seemed to integrate better then my Harbeth P3ERs with its elevated mid bass. First time ever I've ever gotten a subwoofer to blend perfectly. I'm using an REL sub off my speaker taps and the V281s fixed-out or pre-fader outputs feeding my integrated amplifier. Just sounds better to me then all the other combinations I've tried: post-fader into the integrated's A/V pass through or running off the tape outs to the V281. I still wish I had a Chord TT to run balanced to my V281 and unbalanced to my integrated but I'm content for now. Would rather spend the money improving my vinyl rig or getting a better A2D converter.


----------



## armymanhaha

Aside from being a headphone amplifier, I use my V281 as a preamp to my Musical Fidelity M6 PRX power amplifier for multimedia duties (ie movies, netflix, gaming). My power amp understandably goes hot in my country's hot weather although it dissipates heat quite well thanks to the fact that it has large heatsinks on its side.

However, I am concerned about my V281's longevity. It goes warm even when ventilated well (not hot as the power amp, duh) even on idle. This amp has been out for years now so I am wondering if you guys have had reliability issues? Do you think the V281 can last for decades if it stays on for 10-12 hours a day? Should I just turn it off when not in use, even though my next usage will just be in the next 20 mins? I know Violectric / Lake People devices are designed for professional use, but I dont know if in their world they do this sort of abuse to their equipment and if Violectric had longevity in mind.

At this point, I am thinking of getting a digital integrated amp (ala NAD 388) for multimedia usage instead not unless somebody can tell me what I am doing is fine. Let's not talk about power consumption differences to make replies to this inquiry short.


----------



## PleasantSounds

I would not recommend switching the amp off for short breaks in listening. That can do more harm than good.
Regarding the reliability - mine is early production (2014) and still going strong, with use between 6 and 12 hours per day. I can't say it gets too warm, at least when compared to some other gear I have. Looks like it has the potential to last for years.


----------



## zhgutov (Nov 19, 2017)

armymanhaha said:


> My power amp understandably goes hot in my country's hot weather although it dissipates heat quite well thanks to the fact that it has large heatsinks on its side.
> However, I am concerned about my V281's longevity. It goes warm even when ventilated well (not hot as the power amp, duh) even on idle. This amp has been out for years now so I am wondering if you guys have had reliability issues? Do you think the V281 can last for decades if it stays on for 10-12 hours a day?


My amp is almost always on. It is hot, like you described (warm, but not hot as the power amp). Even in idle. Looks like it is normal condition. It works this way more than 2 years already.
UPD. The temperature in my room is about 20°C.


----------



## watchdog507

PleasantSounds said:


> I would not recommend switching the amp off for short breaks in listening. That can do more harm than good.
> Regarding the reliability - mine is early production (2014) and still going strong, with use between 6 and 12 hours per day. I can't say it gets too warm, at least when compared to some other gear I have. Looks like it has the potential to last for years.



I would concur about the switching your gear off.  It's not a great idea.  One solution that could work is laptop cooling pads. They are cheap and  I've used them before and they are effective.  The only potential issues are RFI/EMI and vibration..  You would need to make sure your cooler is low emission.  You would need to use some anti vibration supports/feet. There are many choices.


----------



## Pharmaboy

armymanhaha said:


> Aside from being a headphone amplifier, I use my V281 as a preamp to my Musical Fidelity M6 PRX power amplifier for multimedia duties (ie movies, netflix, gaming). My power amp understandably goes hot in my country's hot weather although it dissipates heat quite well thanks to the fact that it has large heatsinks on its side.
> 
> However, I am concerned about my V281's longevity. It goes warm even when ventilated well (not hot as the power amp, duh) even on idle. This amp has been out for years now so I am wondering if you guys have had reliability issues? Do you think the V281 can last for decades if it stays on for 10-12 hours a day? Should I just turn it off when not in use, even though my next usage will just be in the next 20 mins? I know Violectric / Lake People devices are designed for professional use, but I dont know if in their world they do this sort of abuse to their equipment and if Violectric had longevity in mind.
> 
> At this point, I am thinking of getting a digital integrated amp (ala NAD 388) for multimedia usage instead not unless somebody can tell me what I am doing is fine. Let's not talk about power consumption differences to make replies to this inquiry short.



I don't use my V281 every single day (I have other amp/preamps and sometimes switch it out). But when I do use it, such as right now, it's on ~12-14 hrs/day, acting as both pre-amp & headphone amp.

Just checked, and it's very slightly warm (the old "hand-on-the-case" test). I'm not even sure it's as warm as body temp.

Hard to be sure about the future w/my (purchased used) V281, but it's giving every indication of being as bullet-proof as an amp gets.


----------



## armymanhaha

I also have a musical fidelity a3.2 preamp here but it is not in the same league as the v281. The a3.2 makes music sound full but hollow at the same time. Thats why i use the v281 because everything sounds 'right' with it when paired with my power amp, so you can see my concern because it is not designed to be one's main preamp in the first place. 

But with that being said, I appreciate all your inputs here. It does feel like the V281 is built like a tank so maybe my worries are unfounded.


----------



## 13713

On the discussion of heat and operating temps I have my stack on for about 9-12 hours a day and it gets warm but not hot. Operating temps like this seem normal I use mine in my PC chain at the moment so when I work or play games it is on and running.


----------



## Badas

V281 doesn't operate hot. My Yggy DAC gets hotter. 

I also have many Home Theater products that get super hot compared to the V281. 
They have been in operation for 5 years with no issues. 
If they are designed to take the heat then it's okay. 

My HT components get waaaaaay hotter:


----------



## 13713

Badas said:


> V281 doesn't operate hot. My Yggy DAC gets hotter.
> 
> I also have many Home Theater products that get super hot compared to the V281.
> They have been in operation for 5 years with no issues.
> ...



Actually in that entire stack I can safely and sarcastically say that the PS4 gets hotter. Depending on situation I would be correct. Nice setup.


----------



## Badas

13713 said:


> Actually in that entire stack I can safely and sarcastically say that the PS4 gets hotter. Depending on situation I would be correct. Nice setup.



PS4 and PS3 are fan heaters.  They get loud and hot. 

Close. The Marantz gear gets the hottest. If you look closely the top Marantz has a AC Infinity
fan cooling system. It sucks the air out of the cabinets and throws the hot air out the back. 
Works well. These have worked solidly for 5 years with not one single glitch. Heat doesn't matter. 

Pic is older pic. I have Yggy now. Like this:


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

armymanhaha said:


> Aside from being a headphone amplifier, I use my V281 as a preamp to my Musical Fidelity M6 PRX power amplifier for multimedia duties (ie movies, netflix, gaming). My power amp understandably goes hot in my country's hot weather although it dissipates heat quite well thanks to the fact that it has large heatsinks on its side.
> 
> However, I am concerned about my V281's longevity. It goes warm even when ventilated well (not hot as the power amp, duh) even on idle. This amp has been out for years now so I am wondering if you guys have had reliability issues? Do you think the V281 can last for decades if it stays on for 10-12 hours a day? Should I just turn it off when not in use, even though my next usage will just be in the next 20 mins? I know Violectric / Lake People devices are designed for professional use, but I dont know if in their world they do this sort of abuse to their equipment and if Violectric had longevity in mind.
> 
> At this point, I am thinking of getting a digital integrated amp (ala NAD 388) for multimedia usage instead not unless somebody can tell me what I am doing is fine. Let's not talk about power consumption differences to make replies to this inquiry short.



Depends what you define as warm. My Taurus Mk2 gets warm too, but it only sounds at its best when properly warmed up. Analog to a car, you could call it its operating temperature. Okay, it doesn't have a radiator to regulate that temperature, but it's designed to run warm within a fair margin.

If I understand technology well, there is no such thing as idle with class A amplifiers. They run at full power spec, whether music is flowing through them or not... which guarantees their explosive dynamics and speed, as all the power is always readily available when called for.


----------



## armymanhaha

Did not know that the V281 operates at Class A. That could explain it then.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

armymanhaha said:


> Did not know that the V281 operates at Class A. That could explain it then.



Class AB actually, no idea where exactly its bias is set.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Yes, V281 must be class A/B. It doesn't get nearly warm enough to be pure class A.


----------



## zhgutov

According to RAA, this amp can achieve at least 105 dB SPL with HE-6 or Susvara in class A. Or it works like it is still in class A.
Not sure about higher levels, looks like they switched the sensitivity or made something like this in their measurement system at this point.


----------



## davidespinosa (Nov 20, 2017)

The Violectric USA Black Friday sale starts Friday -- 25% off and free shipping !

http://violectric-usa.com/


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## PHC1

davidespinosa said:


> The Violectric USA Black Friday sale starts Friday -- 25% off and free shipping !
> 
> http://violectric-usa.com/


Well, I guess now would be the time to order the V281.  Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Pharmaboy

PHC1 said:


> Well, I guess now would be the time to order the V281.  Thanks for the tip.



It certainly would.

The brand new equivalent of the V281 I bought used for $2K USD (w/relay+remote & 128 stepped pot) cost ~$2,175 w/this discount.

If I didn't already own one, I'd be getting the V281 right now...

The same discount seems to apply to other terrific products, like the Lake People G109-S.


----------



## lcasadonte

It looks like a great sale.


----------



## BLacklWf

How do you like WA 22 vs V281?  They happened to be about the same price for this particular season of the year, and I'm thinking one of them as my first high end desktop amp.  Thanks.




Badas said:


> V281 doesn't operate hot. My Yggy DAC gets hotter.
> 
> I also have many Home Theater products that get super hot compared to the V281.
> They have been in operation for 5 years with no issues.
> ...


----------



## Badas

BLacklWf said:


> How do you like WA 22 vs V281?  They happened to be about the same price for this particular season of the year, and I'm thinking one of them as my first high end desktop amp.  Thanks.



V281 buddy. 
WA22 beats it occasionally (with expensive nos tubes). However V281 is always so close behind. 
So close it is almost not worth mentioning. 
The flexibility and ease of use makes the V281 better. For example: My Ether Flow sounds like dog
on the WA22. Sounds wonderful on V281. V281 makes all HP's sound their best. WA22 is picky.


----------



## BLacklWf

Badas said:


> V281 buddy.
> WA22 beats it occasionally (with expensive nos tubes). However V281 is always so close behind.
> So close it is almost not worth mentioning.
> The flexibility and ease of use makes the V281 better. For example: My Ether Flow sounds like dog
> on the WA22. Sounds wonderful on V281. V281 makes all HP's sound their best. WA22 is picky.



Thanks!  I just ordered V281!!  My Christmas is coming early this year.


----------



## Badas

BLacklWf said:


> Thanks!  I just ordered V281!!  My Christmas is coming early this year.



Congrats. The V281 is the only amp you will ever need. Built like a tank. 
I do occasionally marvel at it's engineering.


----------



## Shureman

Has anyone experience on their USB DAC? I want to use it with a DAP out to USB. I initially thought about getting the Hugo 2 to drive my Focal with my DAP as source, but with discount, the V281 or V280 is within the same price range of Hugo 2. Any comment would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## BLacklWf

Shureman said:


> Has anyone experience on their USB DAC? I want to use it with a DAP out to USB. I initially thought about getting the Hugo 2 to drive my Focal with my DAP as source, but with discount, the V281 or V280 is within the same price range of Hugo 2. Any comment would be greatly appreciated.



I haven't heard their on-board DAC.  I ordered V281 yesterday without it.  From what I've read V850 DAC is comparable to or better than Hugo 1, but the on-board DAC is not.  I thought V281 deserves a better DAC.  However, the on-board DAC is a great value especially with Black Friday saving, and I was very tempted to order it to use until I buy a better DAC.  I'm actually still thinking of calling them to change my order to include it..


----------



## project86

The onboard DAC option is surprisingly decent. It won't challenge a V850 or anything of that sort, but it's not terrible by any means. 

People tend to be disappointed by it and I think that's due to it not being of the same caliber as the amp itself... to which I say "duh". What did you expect? For the price, though, I think you'd have a hard time finding anything significantly better.

You have to remember - this is primarily a dedicated headphone amp. The DAC option is an add-on, not the main event. 

In any case, I was just thinking the 25% off sale makes the V280 a particularly good option. With the discount ($441 off) it comes in at well under $1400. If, as folks claim, it sounds similar to V281 minus some options.... that's a phenomenal value. As Pharmaboy said though, V281 is an excellent value as well considering the discount.


----------



## Diehard9er (Nov 23, 2017)

Hi folks,

I have almost no experience with amps. I have basically had one for many years. I have the Sennheiser HDVA 600. It has served me well with a pair of Senn 700s. My source was Oppo 105 for many years as well.

My headphone rig is part of a HT set-up. I just totally revamped the stereo side of things. I now have NAD Masters M50.2 music server and NAD Masters M12 digital preamp/DAC. Prior I had just used my HT prepro and Oppo.

This upgrade made such a difference with my headphones I got on a kick and ordered Senn 800S. It’s has been a revelation so much so I just ordered a pair of Audeze LCD-3s.

I spent a good chunk of the evening looking for amp reviews compared to my current Senn 600 amp. I found one in particular that compared around 10 amps using Senn 800 as the primary can.

The V281 came out as winner best overall while an EAR won for best overall sound but almost $6K. Yikes.

Throughout the testing a constant was that the 281 was on the warm side of neutral. I’d be up to trying the 281 but afraid this signature with NAD Masters and perhaps the Audeze might be too much on the other side of neutral on the warm side. I’m okay with this just don’t want to get bored as not engaged after 30 minutes of listening.

Will this perform well with the Audeze LCD-3? I think the Senn 800S will be fine.

In this paticular review the Senn 600 amp I have came in like 6 or 7 out of ten. I am surprised as it sounds pretty good to me but as stated I don’t have a lot of other can amp experience. Now I’m curios.

With the sale price and no DAC or volume I can about reach it. I use the M12 for volume and DAC. Do you think this is a good amp for me to try and move into with my gear and cans? Coming from Senn HDVA 600. I run fully balanced in and out.

Appreciate your thoughts and Happy Thanksgiving.


----------



## zhgutov (Nov 23, 2017)

Diehard9er said:


> Will this perform well with the Audeze LCD-3?


This amp sounds amazing with LCD-3, IMO. I have Fazor version from 2014.
I can not call this setup as warm sounding. It is smooth, but with good detail, texture etc.
Probably it depends on the DAC (my DAC is neutral).
Actually, it just puts you into the music, so you don't think about such things until someone ask about them


----------



## Diehard9er

zhgutov said:


> This amp sounds amazing with LCD-3, IMO. I have Fazor version from 2014.
> I can not call this setup as warm sounding. It is smooth, but with good detail, texture etc.
> Probably it depends on the DAC (my DAC is neutral).
> Actually, it just puts you into the music, so you don't think about such things until someone ask about them



Thanks for the reply. I continued to read thru this thread and did more web searches and decided to order the 281 in silver. I didn’t plan on buying an amp until next spring but the sale got me. 

I have a small bedroom set-up so will move the Sennheiser amp in there. That helped with the decision as I have a use for it and don’t need to give it away via Audiogon.

Can’t wait to try it out. My LCD-3s should be shipping soon and I had ordered a Silver Dragon silver XLR from Moon and that shipped yesterday so I can run the LCD-3 balanced. I was going to do that with the Senn amp so it was already ordered.

This should be awesome. Need to restrain from all sites now as two high end cans, a cable and an amp are about all my wallet can take right now.

Not sure of amp lead time but will provide some feedback after I get set-up. The LCD-3 should be here too.

Fun!!


----------



## zhgutov

Diehard9er said:


> I had ordered a Silver Dragon silver XLR from Moon and that shipped yesterday so I can run the LCD-3 balanced.


I don't know if the current delivery include both XLR and TRS cables, but mine has both of them.
It would be interesting if you share your impressions about the cables too.
I still use the stock XLR cable (it should be good according to specs, but who knows).


----------



## Diehard9er (Nov 23, 2017)

zhgutov said:


> I don't know if the current delivery include both XLR and TRS cables, but mine has both of them.
> It would be interesting if you share your impressions about the cables too.
> I still use the stock XLR cable (it should be good according to specs, but who knows).



I had read on-line somewhere Audeze stopped shipping with an XLR cable as they felt most people did not use it. The Senn 800S I just received a couple weeks back had both included.

I think for the money Audeze should ship both. I would have saved the money for now and used stock. Oh well, the Silver Dragon shipped. I’ll be all ready to go with new amp. I’ll let you know but I will have no stock cord to compare.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Diehard9er said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I have almost no experience with amps. I have basically had one for many years. I have the Sennheiser HDVA 600. It has served me well with a pair of Senn 700s. My source was Oppo 105 for many years as well.
> 
> ...



I & a few others went back & forth in this thread some weeks ago about exactly how "warm" the V281 is. To summarize:

My feeling is that the slight "warmth" of the V281 is not because it makes everything sound "warm" (it definitely does not)--but more because it lacks the overly clinical/"revealing" upper midrange & treble of so many amps mentioned on Head-Fi. 
Let's just say there's is a wide opinion/perception gulf (in headphone audio, as well as big living room system "audiophile" audio) between those that want accuracy/revealing/details vs those (like me) who want organic/musical/natural/relaxing. 
The V281 is probably more in the latter camp, but not by much--it also has tons of resolution...no details are MIA w/this amp

A related perception is two other impressive strengths of the V281--tremendously impactful/deep bass; and state-of-the-art dynamics--tend to really anchor the low registers in a way I find quite natural, like real, life music. This, in turn, tends to take the spotlight off upper midrange & treble. So indirectly, the V281 seems less centered on treble because you have so much to listen to in the lower registers, as well the upper ones.
I have the V281, know it extremely well, and have zero difficulty recommending it to just about anyone w/any type of hardware. It is enormously flexible and has tremendous power (can drive any headphone)--while sounding very good, indeed.

For comparison, I also have (and just love) the Liquid Carbon--which really is a warm amp. But even there, calling it "warm" (implying it "filters" everything & imposes a fixed sound signature on everything) doesn't begin to describe what it can do.

ie, "warm" is kind of curse here, at least w/some. but it's often not a simple thing IMO.


----------



## zhgutov

Diehard9er said:


> I will have no stock cord to compare.


Oh, nothing wrong with that.


----------



## fixated

Pharmaboy said:


> I & a few others went back & forth in this thread some weeks ago about exactly how "warm" the V281 is. To summarize:
> 
> My feeling is that the slight "warmth" of the V281 is not because it makes everything sound "warm" (it definitely does not)--but more because it lacks the overly clinical/"revealing" upper midrange & treble of so many amps mentioned on Head-Fi.
> Let's just say there's is a wide opinion/perception gulf (in headphone audio, as well as big living room system "audiophile" audio) between those that want accuracy/revealing/details vs those (like me) who want organic/musical/natural/relaxing.
> ...



Ah, the old "is the V281 warm?" debate at the earlier parts of this thread.

I used to think it was warmish neutral but after having it for a while and having tested it with a couple of DACs (Hugo 2 and Hugo TT), I have to say that the V281 never got close to warm, or at least to what I define as being warm. It's weird because I used to think it had a hint of warmth but now I think the V281 just adds more weight to everything, I would call it weighty rather than warm if that makes any sense.


----------



## donato

Badas said:


> Congrats. The V281 is the only amp you will ever need. Built like a tank.
> I do occasionally marvel at it's engineering.



I just ordered mine too.  Couldn't resist any longer with that black friday deal.

Badas, I kinda blame you.  My equipment progression has many similar waypoints as your path (HA-1, LCD-X, Auralic Vega, WA-22, Ether Flow, probably more).  Many of your experiences have mirrored my own and so I've found your feedback very useful.  So I think you're partially to blame for my most recent acquisition 

As much as I've enjoyed the WA22 and tube rolling, it can get expensive and it will be nice to have a TOL solid state amp that I can just optimally without having to think much about it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

lonerboy13 said:


> Ah, the old "is the V281 warm?" debate at the earlier parts of this thread.
> 
> I used to think it was warmish neutral but after having it for a while and having tested it with a couple of DACs (Hugo 2 and Hugo TT), I have to say that the V281 never got close to warm, or at least to what I define as being warm. It's weird because I used to think it had a hint of warmth but now I think the V281 just adds more weight to everything, I would call it weighty rather than warm if that makes any sense.



"...I used to think it had a hint of warmth but now I think the V281 just adds more weight to everything,"

That's a very good way to describe what we apparently both hear from the V281. 

I remember reading in one of the audiophile magazines that when we listen to an audio component, we're really listening to its power supply. I wasn't always sure that's true--or that it explained as much about sound as it purports to. But w/the V281, that statement seems on target. 

The V281 has bottomless reserves of power...and the dynamics are crazy/good. All the frequencies from the midrange down are so solid & impactful. That foundation, combined w/a "black background" (ie, little or no noise) makes this amp sound somewhat different from others IMO.


----------



## Diehard9er (Nov 24, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback guys on the V281. I’m sure it’s going to be awesome. I already received tracking Id from Arthur! That was quick.

My LCD-3 are on the FEDX truck for delivery today. Yippee!

I’m kind of glad I have until next week for delivery of the V281. I can really put the 800S and LCD-3 thru some time on my Sennheiser amp and have a fresh feel sonically/power of how the V281 behaves vs. my Sennheiser amp. With two  weeks in with 800S I’m fairly confident there but I think the LCD-3 will be a bit more challenging for the Sennheiser amp.

Anyway, my Friday night is planned with a couple of drinks and the new LCD-3. Now to tell some friends I’m canceling plans for a date with my headphones. (-:

Thanks for the feedback on the V281. I’ll provide some feedback after it arrives and I have some time with it.

Rick


----------



## Diehard9er (Nov 28, 2017)

Wow Guys,

I’m several days into the LCD-3 and they are magnificent. I’m really enjoying them. It’s a tough call as I keep going back and forth between the Senn 800S. There are times I’m rooting for the 800S and then back to LCD-3. The bass on the LCD-3 is awesome. No matter how loud I go it’s in total control. At times I like the bit more forward vocal on 800s.

Anyway, this isn’t a can review thread so I’ll jump over there in time but my point is the Sennheiser HDVA 600 is handling both of these cans wonderfully to my ears. And I tell you maybe I purchased too many things too quickly but this NAD Masters M12 digital pre/amp DAC is amazing. Running fully balanced into the Sennheiser sounds wonderful.

I hope my ears will be able to pick up on differences when I insert the 281. Another nice, two XLR out on Senn. I can have both the 800S and LCD-3 balanced and drop one and pick up the other for quick compares. That is a huge nice and I’m going to miss it.

I hope the 281 improves on this experience as it’s pretty damn good right now. If things even get better I’m all for that.

Later this week I should know..

Cheers
Rick


----------



## Asteron70

I had the HD800S/V281 setup for a long time, and it was just amazing. I suspect though the V281 is a better match for the LCD3 than it is for the HD800S.
In hindsight, I would recommend a tube amp (such as the WA22) for the HD800S.

The one major gripe I have with the V281 is that the MAGIC out of the XLR out is not matched in the SE out. It HAS TO be in balanced mode to sound like itself. It only has 1 XLR, and 2SE. Why not the other way around??

WB


----------



## zhgutov (Nov 30, 2017)

Diehard9er said:


> Another nice, two XLR out on Senn.


V281 has four amplifiers for single 4-pin XLR output. Does Senn have eight amplifiers to drive two XLR outputs?
SE outputs in V281 use outputs from different amplifiers (but they are the same amplifiers, which used to drive XLR output).
In this case the left output is out of phase, and the right output is in phase by default.
You can switch SE/TRS outputs to balanced mode with the jumpers inside the amp.
In this case you can connect the headphones in balanced mode with the corresponding cables to TRS sockets.
See manual for details.

There is interesting thing which may affect the comparison when both headphones are driven simultaneously.
According to my experience, LCD-3 may be affected by reflections of the room when the playback volume is high.
This may happen when you have reflective room, and this will at least reduce detail, making the sound "cheaper".
This may be your case too, when you compare two open headphones, which may affect each other.



Asteron70 said:


> The one major gripe I have with the V281 is that the MAGIC out of the XLR out is not matched in the SE out.


Actually, I think you can minimize the difference for some/most headphones.
SE outputs (on any amplifier) have one major drawback. When you have 3-wire connection, the impedance of the cable (common wire) will increase the crosstalk.
For example, I have relatively cheap Shure SRH840. The stock cable has 1.5-2 Ohm on the common wire.
This increases the crosstalk to -25 dB (!). When I changed the cable to something like 0.1 Ohm on the common wire (thick cable) the crosstalk reduced to -60 dB for one channel.
Another channel shill has -50 dB crosstalk, because of internal connections of the headphones, but this is not bad already.
The crosstalk increased to such levels (-25..-35 dB) may lead to more harsh sound (especially in the areas where the headphones itself have some problems).
For Shure SRH840 this is 6-7 kHz area. But finally, after changing the cable, the overall transparency is increased too.
I think this is especially important with the "true to source amps", which have no added smooth, liquid, pleasant layer or some other kind of coloration.


----------



## BLacklWf (Nov 28, 2017)

Diehard9er said:


> Wow Guys,
> 
> I’m several days into the LCD-3 and they are magnificent. I’m really enjoying them. It’s a tough call as I keep going back and forth between the Senn 800S. There are times I’m rooting for the 800S and then back to LCD-3. The bass on the LCD-3 is awesome. No matter how loud I go it’s in total control. At times I like the bit more forward vocal on 800s.
> 
> ...



Just wondering.  Did LCD-3 come with the balanced cables like good old days?


----------



## Fegefeuer

lonerboy13 said:


> Ah, the old "is the V281 warm?" debate at the earlier parts of this thread.
> 
> I used to think it was warmish neutral but after having it for a while and having tested it with a couple of DACs (Hugo 2 and Hugo TT), I have to say that the V281 never got close to warm, or at least to what I define as being warm. It's weird because I used to think it had a hint of warmth but now I think the V281 just adds more weight to everything, I would call it weighty rather than warm if that makes any sense.



That's a great description which matches mine. I never understood the warm part of how people perceive the V281. Maybe in comparison with strident treble of the Ragnarok, BHA-1 and a few others (all with HD 800).


----------



## BLacklWf

I only received v281 Tuesday and only used SE outs (my balanced cables are on their way).  As the person who is not used to v281 sound, I feel the amp is neutral and yet very well extended to both ends.  With SE outs, I feel there is just a hint of warmness.  But, my reference point is KSE1500 which I think is a bit analytical.  So, I agree with others that perhaps the rest of TOTL are on the cold side?  I have not yet heard anything absolutely neutral by the way.  It's always either analytical or warm.  V281 is by far the perfect on the balance scale when it comes to neutral-ness for me. 

However, I won't call it a natural sounding amp.  My point is that I have never heard a natural sounding amp or dac or headphone yet.  Every equipment has its own sounding.  With that in mind, v281 comes to so far what I consider as having one of the best equipment sounding even at this very early break-in process.  It's almost dead neutral with maybe just a hint of warmness?  I'm sure it will sound even better with the balanced out.


----------



## Diehard9er

BLacklWf said:


> I only received v281 Tuesday and only used SE outs (my balanced cables are on their way).  As the person who is not used to v281 sound, I feel the amp is neutral and yet very well extended to both ends.  With SE outs, I feel there is just a hint of warmness.  But, my reference point is KSE1500 which I think is a bit analytical.  So, I agree with others that perhaps the rest of TOTL are on the cold side?  I have not yet heard anything absolutely neutral by the way.  It's always either analytical or warm.  V281 is by far the perfect on the balance scale when it comes to neutral-ness for me.
> 
> However, I won't call it a natural sounding amp.  My point is that I have never heard a natural sounding amp or dac or headphone yet.  Every equipment has its own sounding.  With that in mind, v281 comes to so far what I consider as having one of the best equipment sounding even at this very early break-in process.  It's almost dead neutral with maybe just a hint of warmness?  I'm sure it will sound even better with the balanced out.



Good to know your early impressions.

Mine is on UPS truck for delivery today. UPS here locally sometimes does not come until 8PM. That will probably be my luck today.

Looking forward to getting it set-up tonight. I don't think I will try any compares for the first week. Just enjoy for now then perhaps I can try a more detailed compare to the Senn HDVA 600.

To answer your question about XLR cable with LCD-3. No XLR version with cans. The SE that came with it was also a little short for where my listening chair is. I ordered and received the Silver Dragon XLR from Moon. A little pricey but oh well.


----------



## BLacklWf

Diehard9er said:


> Good to know your early impressions.
> 
> Mine is on UPS truck for delivery today. UPS here locally sometimes does not come until 8PM. That will probably be my luck today.
> 
> ...




I ordered Black Dragon XLR from Moon.   Like you said, a little pricey but oh well..

By the way, you may be tempted to play with the pre-gains.  For me, I thought the default set up was the best.  I tried -6db and -12db and I felt as if both altered the impedance of the input signal which I didn't like.


----------



## Pharmaboy

BLacklWf said:


> I ordered Black Dragon XLR from Moon.   Like you said, a little pricey but oh well..
> 
> By the way, you may be tempted to play with the pre-gains.  For me, I thought the default set up was the best.  I tried -6db and -12db and I felt as if both altered the impedance of the input signal which I didn't like.



I think you'll both like balanced once you hear it from the V281--and once the units are fully burned in, if purchased new (I know that's controversial sometimes, but I've found it to have significant benefits on occasion).

Re pre-gain, I'm one of those that was compelled to adjust it downward. Set at unity gain, the V281 simply overpowered my dynamic headphones (though not the planar Ori); and as a preamp, it also overpowered my powered monitors (Zenpro modded Yamaha HS7s + SVS subwoofer). The effect in both cases was the dreaded "not enough volume knob" syndrome, with all listening being done from ~7:30 to 8:30 on the dial. The practical effect of that was that too few of those steps on the potentiometer were available for adjusting volume.

After dropping the gain significantly, both in headphone outs & pre-outs, I heard nothing negative in the quality of sound. But I did gain a more of that volume knob for practical, day-to-day volume adjusting.


----------



## BLacklWf

Pharmaboy said:


> I think you'll both like balanced once you hear it from the V281--and once the units are fully burned in, if purchased new (I know that's controversial sometimes, but I've found it to have significant benefits on occasion).
> 
> Re pre-gain, I'm one of those that was compelled to adjust it downward. Set at unity gain, the V281 simply overpowered my dynamic headphones (though not the planar Ori); and as a preamp, it also overpowered my powered monitors (Zenpro modded Yamaha HS7s + SVS subwoofer). The effect in both cases was the dreaded "not enough volume knob" syndrome, with all listening being done from ~7:30 to 8:30 on the dial. The practical effect of that was that too few of those steps on the potentiometer were available for adjusting volume.
> 
> After dropping the gain significantly, both in headphone outs & pre-outs, I heard nothing negative in the quality of sound. But I did gain a more of that volume knob for practical, day-to-day volume adjusting.



Your source signal must been HOT that reducing pre-gain reduced volume as well as matched the impedance.  For me, my input signals were OK volume wise that my normal listening was round 10pm - 11pm position.  Still I wanted to make it 12pm position by reducing pre-gain.  For me, not only it reduced the volume but sounds became noticeably softer indicating impedance changed as well.  My source signal must been too weak. 

I also believe in burn-in, and I have a sense v281 will require a tremendous amount of burn-in right?


----------



## Pharmaboy

BLacklWf said:


> Your source signal must been HOT that reducing pre-gain reduced volume as well as matched the impedance.  For me, my input signals were OK volume wise that my normal listening was round 10pm - 11pm position.  Still I wanted to make it 12pm position by reducing pre-gain.  For me, not only it reduced the volume but sounds became noticeably softer indicating impedance changed as well.  My source signal must been too weak.
> 
> I also believe in burn-in, and I have a sense v281 will require a tremendous amount of burn-in right?



Gain matching is apparently an art, not a science:

I experienced none of the negative effects of gain reduction on the V281 that you mention (either via headphones or pre-out). 
I suspect this may be correct: "My source signal must been too weak."

My DAC outputs 2.5 volts via RCA outs. That's well within the expected range (some DACs go as high as 4.0 volts out).


----------



## Pharmaboy

BLacklWf said:


> Your source signal must been HOT that reducing pre-gain reduced volume as well as matched the impedance.  For me, my input signals were OK volume wise that my normal listening was round 10pm - 11pm position.  Still I wanted to make it 12pm position by reducing pre-gain.  For me, not only it reduced the volume but sounds became noticeably softer indicating impedance changed as well.  My source signal must been too weak.
> 
> I also believe in burn-in, and I have a sense v281 will require a tremendous amount of burn-in right?



Forgot to answer question about burn-in. I purchased my V281 used, so burn-in was not an issue. However, my experiences with it on headphones and other electronics, especially DACs, is that burn-in never hurts & sometimes helps a lot (ie, sound changes significantly, always for the better, after ~100-150 hrs continuous burn-in). 

Both my Audio GD DACs (NOS 19; DAC-19) didn't really stop changing sonically until ~400 - 500 hrs of use. That may seen crazy, but a number of users on the DAC-19 thread mentioned this, and they were right.


----------



## zhgutov

BLacklWf said:


> sounds became noticeably softer indicating impedance changed as well


Where do you think impedance is changing?


----------



## BLacklWf

Well said!



Pharmaboy said:


> Gain matching is apparently an art, not a science:



My source out must been under 2 volts and reducing pre-gain must have dipped it further.  Need to save for a new DAC.


----------



## BLacklWf

zhgutov said:


> Where do you think impedance is changing?



Not an exact science, but when the overall sounds (especially bass) becomes softer, I take it a good sign the source signal gain is too weak.  It may not apply if your source has enough gain.


----------



## novicez1

BLacklWf said:


> Your source signal must been HOT that reducing pre-gain reduced volume as well as matched the impedance.  For me, my input signals were OK volume wise that my normal listening was round 10pm - 11pm position.  Still I wanted to make it 12pm position by reducing pre-gain.  For me, not only it reduced the volume but sounds became noticeably softer indicating impedance changed as well.  My source signal must been too weak.
> 
> I also believe in burn-in, and I have a sense v281 will require a tremendous amount of burn-in right?



No, The amp has no moving components and as such no burn in is required.


----------



## PHC1 (Dec 2, 2017)

My V281 came in this morning straight from Germany. I ordered it loaded, it made sense at 25% off. Remote+24/192 XMOS USB. Fantastic amp. Using with Utopia, Elear, HD650. I have the Bryston BHA-1, Schiit Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2 to compare to. The V281 stands head and shoulders above the others. Well the BHA-1 in balanced is much closer but the V281 with balanced Utopia edges out the BHA-1 with smoother mids and highs. Not a night and day difference but noticeable. The optional 24/192 USB module is quite good for the money. Compared to Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC, it will not make me want to sell the Gungnir but it actually has very good synergy with the amp itself. Obviously they worked/voiced their DAC modules to compliment the amp itself and as such, it is quite enjoyable. No glaring faults from the DAC module.  I am thrilled with the V281 so far. Cold and straight from the box, it sounds amazingly balanced, engaging and musical. The remote control is nice but it I find the quick press of the volume button will typically still overshoot where I want to be volume wise. Wish it was just a bit more resolving in steps on the volume pot.


----------



## jessnie

PHC1 said:


> My V281 came in this morning straight from Germany. I ordered it loaded, it made sense at 25% off. Remote+24/192 XMOS USB. Fantastic amp. Using with Utopia, Elear, HD650. I have the Bryston BHA-1, Schiit Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2 to compare to. The V281 stands head and shoulders above the others. Well the BHA-1 in balanced is much closer but the V281 with balanced Utopia edges out the BHA-1 with smoother mids and highs. Not a night and day difference but noticeable. The optional 24/192 USB module is quite good for the money. Compared to Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC, it will not make me want to sell the Gungnir but it actually has very good synergy with the amp itself. Obviously they worked/voiced their DAC modules to compliment the amp itself and as such, it is quite enjoyable. No glaring faults from the DAC module.  I am thrilled with the V281 so far. Cold and straight from the box, it sounds amazingly balanced, engaging and musical. The remote control is nice but it I find the quick press of the volume button will typically still overshoot where I want to be volume wise. Wish it was just a bit more resolving in steps on the volume pot.


Wondering if the 25% off is still valid??


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

PHC1 said:


> The remote control is nice but it I find the quick press of the volume button will typically still overshoot where I want to be volume wise. Wish it was just a bit more resolving in steps on the volume pot.


I don't own a V281 (unfortunately), but this sounds like playing with the gain switches would solve this inconvenience for you.

Where did you buy it?


----------



## PHC1

PHC1 said:


> My V281 came in this morning straight from Germany. I ordered it loaded, it made sense at 25% off. Remote+24/192 XMOS USB. Fantastic amp. Using with Utopia, Elear, HD650. I have the Bryston BHA-1, Schiit Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2 to compare to. The V281 stands head and shoulders above the others. Well the BHA-1 in balanced is much closer but the V281 with balanced Utopia edges out the BHA-1 with smoother mids and highs. Not a night and day difference but noticeable. The optional 24/192 USB module is quite good for the money. Compared to Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC, it will not make me want to sell the Gungnir but it actually has very good synergy with the amp itself. Obviously they worked/voiced their DAC modules to compliment the amp itself and as such, it is quite enjoyable. No glaring faults from the DAC module.  I am thrilled with the V281 so far. Cold and straight from the box, it sounds amazingly balanced, engaging and musical. The remote control is nice but it I find the quick press of the volume button will typically still overshoot where I want to be volume wise. Wish it was just a bit more resolution in steps on the volume pot.





jessnie said:


> Wondering if the 25% off is still valid??


They have a 10% coupon now. Maybe another 25% X-Mas sale?


----------



## PHC1

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> I don't own a V281 (unfortunately), but this sounds like playing with the gain switches would solve this inconvenience for you.
> 
> Where did you buy it?


Bought it from Violectric USA. Yes, I'll have to try the -6dB setting on PRE-GAIN dip switches. Thanks


----------



## Pharmaboy

I bought my V281 used; it has the remote + 128-step pot. I'm running both pre-outs & headphone outs @-12 dB set on gain switches (because at unity gain the V281 was overpowering my speakers &/or headphones).

I, too, have experienced "over-shoot" with the remote. There may actually be a malfunction of the pot, since sometimes at low volume listening, when I press the remote's rocker switch to go down 1 step in volume, the volume shoots up (or the reverse). I keep meaning to send the unit to Violectric USA for a check-out, though it works so well in so many ways, I always get side-tracked...


----------



## PHC1 (Dec 3, 2017)

Pharmaboy said:


> I bought my V281 used; it has the remote + 128-step pot. I'm running both pre-outs & headphone outs @-12 dB set on gain switches (because at unity gain the V281 was overpowering my speakers &/or headphones).
> 
> I, too, have experienced "over-shoot" with the remote. There may actually be a malfunction of the pot, since sometimes at low volume listening, when I press the remote's rocker switch to go down 1 step in volume, the volume shoots up (or the reverse). I keep meaning to send the unit to Violectric USA for a check-out, though it works so well in so many ways, I always get side-tracked...


Since I can compare directly my outboard Gungnir Mutlibit DAC which puts out 4.0V in Balanced which I am using, to the internal XMOS DAC module, the volume from the 4.0V source is substantially higher at the 9 o'clock setting on the pot. I have to turn the volume down when switching between the DIG to Balanced input. I find myself listening to the XMOS DAC quite a bit, I like the ease, the flow, the smooth, organic and warmish tonal balance/timbre of the XMOS DAC module. Nicely done Violectric. Makes me want to explore their outboard DACs out of curiosity.


----------



## JeffMann (Dec 4, 2017)

I have owned a V281 for 3 years and I recently purchased a V280 for a 2nd headphone-based audio system.

When I plugged my headphone cable's XLR male connector into the V280 I heard a click and the connector was solidly held in place in the V280's female connector. However, that doesn't happen with my V281 unit where the connection is very loose and it is very easy to pull the headphone cable's XLR male connector out of the V281's female XLR connector.

The one possibility is that Vioelectric has changed the XLR connector's functional behaviour on their V280 (and possibly more recent V281) amplifiers *or* the second possibility is that I have always had a defective XLR female connector on my V281 unit.

What are the "true facts"?

Jeff.


----------



## zhgutov

JeffMann said:


> What are the "true facts"?


I have early version of the amp, and I don't have a click on XLR connector.
It is easy to pull the headphone cable, but I can't call it loose.


----------



## fdg

In the beginning we had the "B-series" Neutrik 4-pin connectors (look: http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/xlr/nc4fbh) on the front of HPA V281.
These have partly a metal case and the look and feel is better than the "A-series".
However, we always had to extract the locking mechanism as it would not fit the front panel of V281.
As a result the plug from the headphone cable was quite loose in the socket.
This had nothing to do with the perfect electrical match - so it was OK.
With the introduction of HPA V280 we switched over to the "A-series" connectors which offered
a locking mechanism realized by an internal spring (look: http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/xlr/a-series/nc4fah-0) as there was no such connector to be found in the B-series from Neutrik.
Now the plug is better fixed in the socket at the expense of a cheaper looking connector 
Cheers, Fried


----------



## fixated

JeffMann said:


> I have owned a V281 for 3 years and I recently purchased a V280 for a 2nd headphone-based audio system.
> 
> When I plugged my headphone cable's XLR male connector into the V280 I heard a click and the connector was solidly held in place in the V280's female connector. However, that doesn't happen with my V281 unit where the connection is very loose and it is very easy to pull the headphone cable's XLR male connector out of the V281's female XLR connector.
> 
> ...



I don't know if I have the early version since I just bought my V281 just this year but mine does seem to have a noticeable click when I plug in my XLR cable to it. Its not a loud "click" or anything, I feel a click when I plug in the cable, its still easily to pull out the cable but it doesn't wiggle around which indicates that its not "loose" parse.


----------



## zhgutov

XLR sockets with "click" should have black outer ring (according to links provided by Fried Reim above).


----------



## PHC1

Just got my factory new V281 a few days ago. Correct, the XLR connector has a black outer ring. I would not describe it as a "click" but a bit of "resistance" when the balanced male connector goes all the way in. Stays nice and tight with no play once fully in.


----------



## JeffMann

PHC1 said:


> Just got my factory new V281 a few days ago. Correct, the XLR connector has a black outer ring. I would not describe it as a "click" but a bit of "resistance" when the balanced male connector goes all the way in. Stays nice and tight with no play once fully in.



You must have the type A series Neutrik connector, which I prefer because it securely locks the XLR male connector in place. My V281 has the older type B series connector, and it is easy for the XLR male connector to be pulled out of the female connector unit - especially if one uses a heavy aftermarket headphone cable.

Jeff.


----------



## JeffMann

project86 said:


> Yep, if there's one amp that matches the V281 in versatility, it's the Pro iCan. I still like my V281 more, but damn if I wasn't severely tempted to buy the iFi amp anyway. I recently sent back the review unit and I find myself missing it.... very solid amp.



I purchased the iCan Pro amplifier as part of this kit deal - https://www.adorama.com/hmhe1000v2a...t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905 - because I wanted to buy the HE1000v2 headphone anyway, and the deal for the kit was fantastic from a price perspective. I was thinking of using the iCanPro as a headphone amplifier for a 2nd headphone-based audio system. However, I found the iCanPro very deficient in terms of musical sound quality and soundstaging and I therefore purchased a V280 for my 2nd headphone-based audio system. I cannot understand why John Grandberg had such a positive opinion re: the iCanPro amplifier, which I found to be far inferior to my V281 headphone amplifier.

Jeff.


----------



## PHC1

JeffMann said:


> You must have the type A series Neutrik connector, which I prefer because it securely locks the XLR male connector in place. My V281 has the older type B series connector, and it is easy for the XLR male connector to be pulled out of the female connector unit - especially if one uses a heavy aftermarket headphone cable.
> 
> Jeff.


I doubt that would bother me unless it was falling out by itself but if it bothers you, perhaps Violectric can make the change for you?


----------



## BLacklWf

My balanced cable with Neutrik adapter has subtle but discernible clicks with v281.  It's not super tight, but it still feels secure.


----------



## BLacklWf

On every angle and perspective v281 is a beast of an amp.  A very well behaved beast that is!  I burned-in my v281 over 200 hours with real music and so far I'm loving what I hear with HD6XX on the balanced out.  I thought it's SE out was superb at the first, but oh man the balanced out is entirely in a different league.  I'm loving the non-harsh but well extended high and the bass is just simply the best I have ever heard.  I never knew the bass of HD650/XX can be layered/soundstaged with such definition.  Speaking of the soundstage, the depth is outstanding and it's most 3D imagery I heard so far except some very high end tube amplifiers.  But, I have a sense that HD600 will be even be a better match than HD650/6XX depending on the cable choices.  I'm expecting LCD-2 Classic in a week, so hopefully I can contribute more detailed listening impression in a couple weeks or so.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Dec 14, 2017)

ok, had a lot of stuff to do in the recent months, thus being unable to update. Next week Christmas vacations start, then I will finally catch up reformatting this thread with linked user impressions since there have been quite a few very good ones that shouldn't be missed by new users and those interested in the V281 in general.


----------



## chungjun

A little late to the party... jumped on the V281 bandwagon recently and have been trying to find time to enjoy it.

Enjoying the amp very much at the moment. V281 drive and pair with the cans I have, HD800S and Clear very well.

V281 is a power beast indeed for a headphone amp. Good control and versatile too. Currently have the jumper on -12 dB, listening on XLR out - which is plenty to run my HD800S and allow some room to navigate the volume pot.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Just wanted to contribute a recent V281 story...something that happened today: I have a balanced headphone on order and expect it to arrive tomorrow. So as usual, I set up a "burn-in" station in a separate room: a nearly 30 year old (but pretty good) CD player that will play various discs on endless "repeat"; and my V281. It'll take ~6 days (24/7) to burn in the new headphones.

So after setting up this gear I used my least expensive headphone (Marantz MPH-2, an overachieving Chinese closed back design) to sound-check that it even works. CD player & V281 were cold as ice, hadn't been played in days. I put one of my burn-in CDs (Sly & the Family Stone's greatest hits) in the player & hit "play."

20 minutes later I finally managed to tear the headphones off my head. That CD sounded RIDICULOUSLY good on the V281! Somehow I never heard this music through the V281. Even cold, it put out amazingly solid, tuneful bass & plenty of spatial cues. Hearing Larry Graham play funk bass on the V281 w/that group's tight vocals...an unexpected pleasure.

FYI, this CD is definitely not audiophile quality. It was recorded 45+ years ago & was never remastered. And yet, it was sounded so good!


----------



## BLacklWf

Pharmaboy said:


> Just wanted to contribute a recent V281 story...something that happened today: I have a balanced headphone on order and expect it to arrive tomorrow. So as usual, I set up a "burn-in" station in a separate room: a nearly 30 year old (but pretty good) CD player that will play various discs on endless "repeat"; and my V281. It'll take ~6 days (24/7) to burn in the new headphones.
> 
> So after setting up this gear I used my least expensive headphone (Marantz MPH-2, an overachieving Chinese closed back design) to sound-check that it even works. CD player & V281 were cold as ice, hadn't been played in days. I put one of my burn-in CDs (Sly & the Family Stone's greatest hits) in the player & hit "play."
> 
> ...



I used to have either Sony or Pioneer 25 CD changer/player.  I miss it dearly...  It was a solid machine and even had digital out.  It was just to bulky that I had to give to a friend when I was moving to Manhatthan like.. over a decade and some.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Well, this CD player is bulky, too. I'm guessing ~25 lbs...at least 20"W X 14" D X 7"H. 

It's a Phillips CD-80 player from early- to mid- 1980s. This was something of an audiophile model at the time due to 4X oversampling.

I bought mine used from a then-reviewer for STEREOPHILE magazine. He'd had it modified in several ways (recapped; plus installed a disc damping system). I never actually heard it w/my big living room system. Now that I think of it, never heard it w/any speaker system, which is kind of bizarre.

It sounded awfully good on a bad CD today w/the V281. Then again, what I heard was the same things I've heard w/the V281 often before: authoritative bass, BIG dynamics, great soundstaging. 

I've said this before, and it bears repeating: having the V281 in one's system is like having Superman on the desktop. Nothing fazes this unit, either as amp or preamp. I haven't tried welding with it...maybe someday!


----------



## BLacklWf

Pharmaboy said:


> Well, this CD player is bulky, too. I'm guessing ~25 lbs...at least 20"W X 14" D X 7"H.
> 
> It's a Phillips CD-80 player from early- to mid- 1980s. This was something of an audiophile model at the time due to 4X oversampling.
> 
> ...



Wow, 25 lbs!  4X oversampling at that long ago is stunning as well.   I'm in total agreement. I have never heard anything this level (TOTL) which is not picky with the source or materials but V281.  I know it's idiosyncratic but it's extremely transparent yet forgiving.


----------



## zmhaha

Got my V281 today, gonna do some A/B tonight with senn HDVA600. I'd expect the difference on HD800s is not much.
PC --> Chord Hugo TT --> V281 --> HD800s, MDR-Z1R, Elear. 
all through balanced ins and outs.


----------



## Pharmaboy

BLacklWf said:


> Wow, 25 lbs!  4X oversampling at that long ago is stunning as well.   I'm in total agreement. I have never heard anything this level (TOTL) which is not picky with the source or materials but V281.  I know it's idiosyncratic but it's extremely transparent yet forgiving.



"extremely transparent yet forgiving" (you nailed it!)

It's quite an accomplishment for any SS amp to have such impressive bass, dynamics & clarity/transparency, without ever crossing that "brightness" line. This is the "Violectric house sound" in all its glory...I get a variation of the same thing w/the Lake People G109-A, another fine amp (SE only).


----------



## eysikal (Dec 14, 2017)

Anyone else having issues with their Violectric setup since Apple updated to macOS High Sierra?

I have an add-in USB DAC board from Violectric based on the Tenor chip. (http://violectric-usa.com/accessories/usb-24-192-tenor)

It does not play nicely with High Sierra at all. As soon as I power up my amp my wired keyboard locks up and my bluetooth mouse loses connectivity. I've spoken with Arthur of violectric-usa.com and he says the solution is to use the XMOS board instead. (http://violectric-usa.com/accessories/usb-24-192-xmos) Violectric does not have a driver that is supported on macOS High Sierra.

Anyone want to buy my Tenor board for cheap? Verified with Arthur that it still works great on Windows.


----------



## zhgutov

eysikal said:


> Anyone else having issues with their Violectric setup since Apple updated to macOS High Sierra?


My USB board (TENOR 24/192 for DAC) does not work on High Sierra too (it was fine on Sierra).
It installs the driver successfully, but does not show the corresponding devices at all.
I started to hate Apple. They made too much strange things in the last few OS updates.


----------



## BLacklWf

eysikal said:


> Anyone else having issues with their Violectric setup since Apple updated to macOS High Sierra?
> 
> I have an add-in USB DAC board from Violectric based on the Tenor chip. (http://violectric-usa.com/accessories/usb-24-192-tenor)
> 
> ...



Maybe    PM sent.


----------



## armymanhaha

I am encountering issues with my V281 where I noticed that when I press the "HEAD" button to engage/disengage the connected headphone it would make a popping sound in the headphone, along with the V281's usual click. Long pressing the "HEAD" button will make the "HEAD" LED blink. I have not noticed this before. The manual only says this should occur with the "LINE" button, but nowhere does it say it should do the same for HEAD. Is this common?

I am more interested in the popping sound when engaging/disengaging though, so please V281 users let me know.


----------



## armymanhaha (Dec 20, 2017)

addendum: the pop's audibility is affected by the volume knob's position. and the pop is more prevalent on the single ended output when connected to the left.


----------



## Pharmaboy

armymanhaha said:


> addendum: the pop's audibility is affected by the volume knob's position. and the pop is more prevalent on the single ended output on the left.



As it happens, I just did this today w/my V281. As usual when I press either "Head" or "Line" buttons, I get dead silence/no noise.

If this switch is an open/contact type, perhaps you can clean w/degreaser spray? I've had my V281 open, but never thought to look at these particular switches.

BTW, I've had problems w/my (used) V281 from day-1, but different from yours: my motorized/stepped volume pot is quite noisy & unpredictable: sometimes sound level jumps up when I press down 1-step on remote, or the reverse. One of these days I'll send it in for service.

It's an amazingly good amp/preamp, this operational issue aside: once I get it to the desired level, it sounds very good, indeed...


----------



## armymanhaha

Yeah it still works and plays music. But I've had numerous issues with electronics before and I am on a keen lookout for symptoms that might lead to future failure. So my unit might need servicing based on these symptoms yes? It still is under warranty as it is only a few months old.


----------



## Pharmaboy

armymanhaha said:


> Yeah it still works and plays music. But I've had numerous issues with electronics before and I am on a keen lookout for symptoms that might lead to future failure. So my unit might need servicing based on these symptoms yes? It still is under warranty as it is only a few months old.



Maybe yes, maybe no. Sometimes electrical switch noise is easily banished just by switching on/off repeatedly; blowing out contacts w/air cleaner (like you'd use on a keyboard); or degreaser on contacts.

Then again, if you're not comfortable w/electronics & doing that stuff, it might be a candidate for service.


----------



## BLacklWf

armymanhaha said:


> I am encountering issues with my V281 where I noticed that when I press the "HEAD" button to engage/disengage the connected headphone it would make a popping sound in the headphone, along with the V281's usual click. Long pressing the "HEAD" button will make the "HEAD" LED blink. I have not noticed this before. The manual only says this should occur with the "LINE" button, but nowhere does it say it should do the same for HEAD. Is this common?
> 
> I am more interested in the popping sound when engaging/disengaging though, so please V281 users let me know.


I wonder what blinking HEAD button means.


----------



## zhgutov (Dec 20, 2017)

armymanhaha said:


> I am encountering issues with my V281 where I noticed that when I press the "HEAD" button to engage/disengage the connected headphone it would make a popping sound in the headphone, along with the V281's usual click. Long pressing the "HEAD" button will make the "HEAD" LED blink. I have not noticed this before. The manual only says this should occur with the "LINE" button, but nowhere does it say it should do the same for HEAD. Is this common?
> 
> I am more interested in the popping sound when engaging/disengaging though, so please V281 users let me know.


I think this is not normal behaviour.
My amp never pops or clicks (in headphones) when I switch "HEAD", no matter which output I use.
And there is no blinking when I press and hold HEAD button.
Have you tried to switch options (XLR, RCA, DIG) while HEAD is blinking?


----------



## armymanhaha (Dec 21, 2017)

Can anybody else test the scenario? Hold the "HEAD" button for 2 secs on your V281 and let me know if it blinks.

While the HEAD LED blinks, i cannot select other inputs like XLR, DIG, RCA. It just blinks until I hold down the button again.


----------



## armymanhaha

Wow really no reply to help out a guy in need? Okay nevermind it seems that headfi peeps are only good for highly subjective reviews, hype, and glorifying gears. Not much technical people here I guess but no worries. I appreciate the replies of the few though.

I have declared that this is an issue with my unit. It produces a radio-ish sound (?) through the headphone like an electrical interference that I could only imagine is some kind of electronic leak within the circuit whenever I have the HEAD and LINE toggled on at the same time. Really weird and the jury is still out if it is for RMA, depends on my local distro. I have isolated to an electric outlet with hospital-grade conditioner.


----------



## fdg

@ armymanhaha
Pressing the "Head" Botton will cause a flashing of the green "Head" LED.
This means nothing, it is just a measure for further softeware enlargement.

*BUT !!!*
loud popping noise or other sounds (radio ?) when switching is far from being normal.
Please check if there is still noise when there is no source connected.
Also, please tell me about your headphone(s) and if you use any adaptors.

*@ everybody:*
All switching inside V281 is made by sealed relays.
These are controlled by the best possible push buttons (except the power switch).
You must not and can not service the contacts in any way !!

finally, Lake People / Violectric wishes a merry christmas and a successful 2018


----------



## armymanhaha (Dec 21, 2017)

Hello Fried

I have used a Shure 1540 and Beyer DT770 in SE mode to check for the pops. The adaptor is a screw-on that came with both units. My troubleshooting and isolation led me to the conclusion that it is not the fault of the headphone that is connected. I have no balanced headphone to test it with though, since I have already sold my HD800S (love/hate relationship with it) and I am awaiting for the Clear to be available here.

I have also removed my NAD M51 DAC in the equation. Everything I have mentioned here is with the V281 isolated by itself from other electronics. I have taken precaution to avoid ground loops in my system as it exists along side a home stereo setup.

The radio-ish high frequency noise happens when both HEAD and LINE are lit, and then I hold the LINE button down (or even the input switches) it will make some popping, repetitive noises along with the high frequency, radio-ish sound.


----------



## zhgutov (Dec 21, 2017)

fdg said:


> Pressing the "Head" Botton will cause a flashing of the green "Head" LED.
> This means nothing, it is just a measure for further softeware enlargement.


Just wondering which feature do you want to implement here?


----------



## fdg

@zhgutov 
In the moment we don´t have ideas for more software.
But, pre prepared


----------



## BLacklWf

fdg said:


> @ armymanhaha
> Pressing the "Head" Botton will cause a flashing of the green "Head" LED.
> This means nothing, it is just a measure for further softeware enlargement.
> 
> ...


Merry Christmas and Healthy and Prosperous 2018 to Fried and Arthur and all current, past and future owners of Violectric/Lake People family!!


----------



## PHC1

USA customers are in very good hands with Arthur of Violectric USA. Customer service is top notch and Arthur goes above and beyond to take care of his customers if there is ever a need.


----------



## jmac1516

PHC1 said:


> USA customers are in very good hands with Arthur of Violectric USA. Customer service is top notch and Arthur goes above and beyond to take care of his customers if there is ever a need.


I agree!  I had a very positive purchase experience last year when I purchased by Violectric gear.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I agree! I purchased my first serious headphone amp, the G109-A, from Violectric USA in 2016. This involved much email back & forth w/Arthur. He's very helpful & knowledgeable...I was very well treated, though the value of my purchase was probably just a fraction of what others were buying.

I get the feeling the whole company is like that...


----------



## zhgutov

Yeah, it seems like they love what they do, and they proud of it. This is cool, I think.


----------



## BLacklWf

Same here.  Arthur was above and beyond!


----------



## BLacklWf

PHC1 said:


> USA customers are in very good hands with Arthur of Violectric USA. Customer service is top notch and Arthur goes above and beyond to take care of his customers if there is ever a need.


Have you had a chance to try LCD-2 Classic with v281?  I read LCD phones have great synergy with v281.  Mine was scheduled for today but it's now delayed till Tuesday.


----------



## PHC1 (Dec 22, 2017)

BLacklWf said:


> Have you had a chance to try LCD-2 Classic with v281?  I read LCD phones have great synergy with v281.  Mine was scheduled for today but it's now delayed till Tuesday.


The LCD-3 and V281 is a match made in heaven. Phenomenal synergy. I have not spent much time with the LCD-2C yet as I am driving those with a SPL Phonitor 2730. I'll give it a try over the weekend and get back to you on that.


----------



## PHC1

The LCD-2C, just like the LCD-3 and V281 is a fantastic match. Liquid, engaging and seductive midrange with velvety smooth highs and the V281 brings out the very "analog" sounding bass qualities in both. A music lover's delight. Delicious sound.


----------



## emptymt

Hi Guys,

I was thinking of purchasing one with sales and all, i was thinking of going stock without the options, but i thought it's best if i ask around a bit.

I saw options such as vc1, vc2 which i think means volume control, how useful is it and do i really need it?

It will be paired with Schiit Gungnir Multibit and Focal Utopia, and I listen in medium to high volume.

Other than that, this amp is has been in the market for a while, is it a good idea to wait for the successor? but I guess it will be more expensive when it comes out..

thx.


----------



## Pharmaboy

emptymt said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I was thinking of purchasing one with sales and all, i was thinking of going stock without the options, but i thought it's best if i ask around a bit.
> 
> ...



[background: I own a V281, purchased used, which has both a remote & a 128-step volume pot]

Prompted by your post, I checked Violectric USA to figure out what "v1" and "v2" mean. I'm guessing v1 (@~$295 add'l) = just remote control (of non-stepped/std volume pot); and v2 (@~$590 add'l) = remote control of the upgrade, 128-stepped pot.

You would only really "need" these:

(remote) if your V281 would be out of arm's reach or in an awkward place to be constantly adjusting volume by hand
(remote+stepped pot) if you're into pursuing ultimate sonic quality...stepped pots are said to have somewhat better channel balance and tracking across their range than non-stepped pots. They also cost more to make, and this is reflected in their price.

If I "had it to do all over again" (ie, was ordering the V281 new), I'd get the remote option (my V281 is just out of arm's reach) but not the stepped pot. Why no stepped pot? Because my stepped pot has been glitchy from day-1 in ways only a stepped pot can be glitchy. It really needs diagnostics & repair (I keep meaning to send it to Violectric USA for that). Anyway, take my comments about the stepped pot w/a grain of salt. 

In fairness, there's a stepped pot on my other Violectric product (Lake People G109-A...I believe it has 43 steps), and it works extremely well. True, I sometimes wish there were more steps, but that's the nature of stepped pots.

As for waiting for a new top model, can't advise you there. Not aware of any scuttlebutt concerning an upgraded V281. I will say the V281 is the most competent, powerful, well built, flexible/easily adjusted desktop product I possess. Its sound is never less than excellent, and in some ways is spectacularly good...


----------



## PHC1

emptymt said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I was thinking of purchasing one with sales and all, i was thinking of going stock without the options, but i thought it's best if i ask around a bit.
> 
> ...


I have a very similar setup with Gungnir Multibit, Focal Utopia and Audeze headphones. I ordered the V281 with the remote/relay upgrade and X-MOS internal DAC. I don't regret loading it up and the special sale at the time certainly made that decision easier.  The remote relay volume is convenient and adds a bit of transparency but adds complexity and potential source of problems down the road. The internal X-MOS DAC module is great for taking the edge off the lesser quality recordings which are loudness mastered and compressed. It is a warmer, more forgiving sounding DAC by comparison to Schiit Gungnir. The V281 stripped of options is still an outstanding headphone amp that pairs very nicely with Focal, Audeze and other headphones. I listen to V281 more often than any of my other amps. All in all, the basic model is the more rational purchase. Good luck and happy listening.


----------



## ajreynol

Hello folks and happy holidays.

I sort of forgot this amp existed, so I thought I'd ask for thoughts. I'm considering a few amps to pair with my Chord 2Qute DAC and Audeze LCD-4's:

iCAN Pro
Wells Milo
Woo WA6-SE

I listen to a lot of Jazz, pop, hip-hop, electronic, etc. so low end performance is as important to me as detail and clarity. My budget is around $2k.

Am I in the right place? Or are the others better options? (Hoping someone has experience with any of the above along with this V281).

Thanks!


----------



## emptymt

Pharmaboy said:


> [background: I own a V281, purchased used, which has both a remote & a 128-step volume pot]
> 
> Prompted by your post, I checked Violectric USA to figure out what "v1" and "v2" mean. I'm guessing v1 (@~$295 add'l) = just remote control (of non-stepped/std volume pot); and v2 (@~$590 add'l) = remote control of the upgrade, 128-stepped pot.
> 
> ...





PHC1 said:


> I have a very similar setup with Gungnir Multibit, Focal Utopia and Audeze headphones. I ordered the V281 with the remote/relay upgrade and X-MOS internal DAC. I don't regret loading it up and the special sale at the time certainly made that decision easier.  The remote relay volume is convenient and adds a bit of transparency but adds complexity and potential source of problems down the road. The internal X-MOS DAC module is great for taking the edge off the lesser quality recordings which are loudness mastered and compressed. It is a warmer, more forgiving sounding DAC by comparison to Schiit Gungnir. The V281 stripped of options is still an outstanding headphone amp that pairs very nicely with Focal, Audeze and other headphones. I listen to V281 more often than any of my other amps. All in all, the basic model is the more rational purchase. Good luck and happy listening.



These are the ultimate reply that I've been looking for, thx guys.

I'm currently using the Liquid Carbon, but I've been itching to upgrade for a while together with the DAC, the v281 seems like an excellent upgrade path


----------



## emptymt (Dec 26, 2017)

ajreynol said:


> Hello folks and happy holidays.
> 
> I sort of forgot this amp existed, so I thought I'd ask for thoughts. I'm considering a few amps to pair with my Chord 2Qute DAC and Audeze LCD-4's:
> 
> ...



I would think twice of going with the Wells Milo if I were you(at least do some research), it seems like a "you get it or you don't" kinda amp, I've seen people praising these amp but also seen people say that they don't like it, especially for the price.
The v281, Ican Pro and the woo has excellent reputation here in headfi.

I was actually thinking of getting either the v281/v280 or the Ican pro, but from what people say Ican Pro is a good option if you like to taylor the sound a lot, while overall performance is slightly behind the v281, but if you value flexibility, you may like the iCan pro.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I have the V281 as well as the LC...each does certain things the other does not. V281 is uber-competent & solid with just about every headphone, plus has a degree of operational flexibility I've never encountered before. The LC is smaller, less powerful, no bells & whistles--but makes certain headphones sing in unique ways. They're both essential in my system...

A pal just got a used iCan Pro, which he likes a lot. He's pretty familiar w/my V281 and told me the iCan isn't quite a match for it. Still, I'm looking forward to hearing the iCan. It has pretty far-reaching controls/flexibility, from what I can tell.


----------



## PHC1

ajreynol said:


> Hello folks and happy holidays.
> 
> I sort of forgot this amp existed, so I thought I'd ask for thoughts. I'm considering a few amps to pair with my Chord 2Qute DAC and Audeze LCD-4's:
> 
> ...


Audeze recommends 1-4W for LCD4. Woo WA6-SE is no where near that.
Not familiar with the other two amps you mentioned but the V281 will drive the LCD4 with plenty of headroom in reserve. I love the V281 with my Audeze LCD3 and LCD2C.


----------



## BLacklWf (Dec 25, 2017)

I received LCD-2C on Saturday and been burning-in last 48 hours with v281 using stock XLR cables, which I think is a great cable by by the way.  First impression on the synergy with v281 is superb all the way and on every corners.  I thought HD6XX was a great match with v281, but I think LCD-2C (perhaps the entire LCD line up) maybe even better match made in heaven with v281.  Or, v281 so just play nicely with any headphone?  Hopefully I will have time to do some serious listening tomorrow.


----------



## 3083joe

Merry Christmas Everyone.
Been a while. 
Still rocking the HD800S with V281 

Happy


----------



## JeffMann

emptymt said:


> I would think twice of going with the Wells Milo if I were you(at least do some research), it seems like a "you get it or you don't" kinda amp, I've seen people praising these amp but also seen people say that they don't like it, especially for the price.
> The v281, Ican Pro and the woo has excellent reputation here in headfi.
> 
> I was actually thinking of getting either the v281/v280 or the Ican pro, but from what people say Ican Pro is a good option if you like to taylor the sound a lot, while overall performance is slightly behind the v281, but if you value flexibility, you may like the iCan pro.



I own the iCanPro and also a V281 and V280, which I use to drive my HD800/HE1000/Susvara headphones. The two Vioelectric headphone amplifiers are identical in terms of sound quality, and they are much better than the iCanPro by a wide margin in terms of soundstaging and tonal balance. I personally cannot tolerate the sound of the iCanPro amp, so I loaned them to a friend to use with my HD800 headphones (which I also no longer use).

Jeff.


----------



## ajreynol

Thanks for the insights on the v281 vs the iCAN, guys. Getting close to scratching the iCAN off my list. I'll just need to decide how much the flexibility it offers is worth to me (admittedly, the potential option to use it in a tube mode or solid state is intriguing).

I'm also replacing the WA6-SE on my list with a WA22, which offers more power and was recommended on a recent blog post from Audeze.


----------



## zmhaha (Dec 26, 2017)

As for SS head amp goes, I guess V281 is pretty much end game for me and many others.

For tube amps, I really like the idea and think they are fun to play around with. However I know myself well enough that if I go that route,  it will quickly become an endless quest of seeking for perfection that I would not even know what it is.
plus constantly keeping a bunch of spare tubes,  warming up before listening, and remembering turning it off are also a bit of annoying to me...
If I were to get a tube amp, I'd just skip all the entry to lower middle levels, and get a WA22 as start.


----------



## 3083joe

zmhaha said:


> As for SS head amp goes, I guess V281 is pretty much end game for me and many others.
> 
> For tube amps, I really like the idea and think they are fun to play around with. However I know myself well enough that if I go that route,  it will quickly become an endless quest of seeking for perfection that I would not even know what it is.
> plus constantly keeping a bunch of spare tubes,  warming up before listening, and remembering turning it off are also a bit of annoying to me...
> If I were to get a tube amp, I'd just skip all the entry to lower middle levels, and get a WA22 as start.



I started with wa6 then wa22. Both lovely amps but as you said endless game of tube rolling. Spent $5000+ on getting the best tubes and always looked for me. 
This is the reason I went with the v281. Best sound out there without all the continuous searching.


----------



## project86

emptymt said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I was thinking of purchasing one with sales and all, i was thinking of going stock without the options, but i thought it's best if i ask around a bit.
> 
> ...



I've had a pair of V281's here in the past - one with the standard volume pot, and one with the maxxed out relay/remote. I listened back and forth quite a bit. I would explain it like so: 

The remote may be useful depending on your needs. But you can get that without the relay-based volume control if that part is all you need. So don't upgrade all the way just because you want a remote. 

The relay-based option is very subtly better sounding than the regular version. It's something I didn't really notice until I used my best DACs, excellent source material, etc. There's certainly something to be said for getting the best possible (no regrets, YOLO, whatever) and being done with it. However, if I'm honest, the improvement is very small in the grand scheme of things.

To put it another way - it's a $600 upgrade over stock, or $300 if you were going to get the remote anyway. I can think of more rewarding ways to spend $600... tube rolling (assuming you have a tube-based device), Wyred 4 Sound Recovery, lifetime subscription to Roon, SD mods for an HD800, even <gasp!> cable upgrades in some instances. So while I don't discourage it, I also want people to feel comfortable buying the "base" model and not feeling like they are missing out.


As for new models, Violectric is not what I'd call a "trendy" company. I've spoken to Fried in the past about potential new designs and for sure he has some ideas kicking around in his head. But he's not the type to drop a new design every year just to keep the market buzzing. When you make stuff as good as V281, you really shouldn't have to go that route anyway...




ajreynol said:


> Hello folks and happy holidays.
> 
> I sort of forgot this amp existed, so I thought I'd ask for thoughts. I'm considering a few amps to pair with my Chord 2Qute DAC and Audeze LCD-4's:
> 
> ...



I have heard all of those amps. I liked the iCAN Pro (though some people can't stand it, perhaps quality control issues? Mine sounded great) and it has tons of fun controls if that would be useful to you. The amp, by itself, is not in the same league as V281 though.

Wells Milo? No thanks. I'll just leave it at that.

WA6 (standard) is actually better than the SE version imho. Can be had used for a great price. But it's not a good match with planars for the most part. I wouldn't bother.


----------



## project86

Btw, I keep meaning to post this but always forget. 

Please DO NOT use an adapter to run single-ended headphones from the balanced output of a V281. Or _any _Violectric headphone amplifier. Or any _other _brand of headphone amp, for that matter. Those adapters can DESTROY your amplifier. This is not a theoretical "maybe it's a bad idea...." type of thing. This is a DANGEROUS and very real way to kill your amp, and it's happened before on several occasions that I know of. Don't be tempted! 

Balanced headphones can use an adapter to run from a 1/4" jack. That's fine. But the other way around is a big problem!


----------



## Pharmaboy

project86 said:


> Btw, I keep meaning to post this but always forget.
> 
> Please DO NOT use an adapter to run single-ended headphones from the balanced output of a V281. Or _any _Violectric headphone amplifier. Or any _other _brand of headphone amp, for that matter. Those adapters can DESTROY your amplifier. This is not a theoretical "maybe it's a bad idea...." type of thing. This is a DANGEROUS and very real way to kill your amp, and it's happened before on several occasions that I know of. Don't be tempted!
> 
> Balanced headphones can use an adapter to run from a 1/4" jack. That's fine. But the other way around is a big problem!



_(rueful laughter)_ You are so right! 

Before I wised up & realized "Balanced headphones can use an adapter to run from a 1/4" jack" -- but SE headphones CANNOT use an adapter to run from 4-pin XLR output -- I searched high & low for just such an adapter to let me do this dangerous thing (ie, create short-circuit, blow up amp).

I was saved from my own ignorance by "the marketplace" ... I could only find one such "adapter," a dinky thing w/stringy wire linking a male 4-pin connector to female 1/4" connector. Underneath, prominently displayed in "Reviews," were user comments to the effect that, "If you want to blow up the amp & set your hair on fire, this adapter is for _*you*_!"

(I got the message)


----------



## 3083joe

project86 said:


> Btw, I keep meaning to post this but always forget.
> 
> Please DO NOT use an adapter to run single-ended headphones from the balanced output of a V281. Or _any _Violectric headphone amplifier. Or any _other _brand of headphone amp, for that matter. Those adapters can DESTROY your amplifier. This is not a theoretical "maybe it's a bad idea...." type of thing. This is a DANGEROUS and very real way to kill your amp, and it's happened before on several occasions that I know of. Don't be tempted!
> 
> Balanced headphones can use an adapter to run from a 1/4" jack. That's fine. But the other way around is a big problem!


Thanks.


----------



## fdg (Dec 28, 2017)

Just for illustration, picture taken from Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/SX-T-3-Balanced-Headphone-Cable-Adapter/dp/B01MYS8DG8

*The above adapter is the best way to cook ANY balanced headphone amp.*

What happens:
A true balanced amp has 4 amp sections, left inphase, left out of phase, right in phase, right out of phase.
Using this adapter will shorten the left and right out phase amps in a way that they will act against each other.
They will get hot because of overload.
With some luck only fuses will blow.
With less luck the transformer and/or both amps will be blown.
Further damages may also ruin the remaning amps.
Please note that all this is not a design issue.
You will also have no garantee repairs when filling diesel in your car instead of gas.
Cheers, Fried


----------



## jmac1516

fdg said:


> Just for illustration, picture taken from Amazon
> https://www.amazon.com/SX-T-3-Balanced-Headphone-Cable-Adapter/dp/B01MYS8DG8
> 
> *The above adapter is the best way to cook ANY balanced headphone amp.*
> ...


Hi Fried,  what if the female was a 2.5mm TRRS.  So balanced to balanced.  I assume there are no inherent risks here?


----------



## LCMusicLover

jmac1516 said:


> Hi Fried,  what if the female was a 2.5mm TRRS.  So balanced to balanced.  I assume there are no inherent risks here?



I'll let Fried answer for himself, but I have been using such an adapter for years with a couple different balanced amps (including my v280) without any issues.  As you message implies, the 2.5mm TRRS does not short two channels together.

All of my headphone cables are short with male 2.5mm TRRS termination for portable use with my balanced DAPs.  I use the adapter (which is 6' long) to listen to my desktop system.


----------



## jmac1516

LCMusicLover said:


> I'll let Fried answer for himself, but I have been using such an adapter for years with a couple different balanced amps (including my v280) without any issues.  As you message implies, the 2.5mm TRRS does not short two channels together.
> 
> All of my headphone cables are short with male 2.5mm TRRS termination for portable use with my balanced DAPs.  I use the adapter (which is 6' long) to listen to my desktop system.


Thanks.  That's what I assumed but wanted to confirm with some people much more expert than myself!


----------



## zhgutov

LCMusicLover said:


> I'll let Fried answer for himself, but I have been using such an adapter for years with a couple different balanced amps (including my v280) without any issues.  As you message implies, the 2.5mm TRRS does not short two channels together.
> 
> All of my headphone cables are short with male 2.5mm TRRS termination for portable use with my balanced DAPs.  I use the adapter (which is 6' long) to listen to my desktop system.


TRRS may be okay if you connect it by 4 cables to the headphones _correctly_. But TRS is not.
And you should know exactly what you do, because it is easy to put TRS into TRRS socket, which will connect two pins.
Actually, I don't understand the reason to connect TRS to 4-pin XLR at all. This can not make the connection balanced.


----------



## LCMusicLover

zhgutov said:


> TRRS may be okay if you connect it by 4 cables to the headphones _correctly_. But TRS is not.
> And you should know exactly what you do, because it is easy to put TRS into TRRS socket, which will connect two pins.
> Actually, I don't understand the reason to connect TRS to 4-pin XLR at all. This can not make the connection balanced.



That's the beauty of my system -- I don't have any 2.5mm male TRS terminated ... anything.  And it's physically impossible to plug a 3.5mm male TRS  plug into the 2.5mm female TRRS socket.

As far as someone trying to use such an adapter to make headphones balanced, I can only assume a lack of understanding of the difference between balanced and single-ended amplifiers and circuits.

I do own one of *these* to allow me to use my balanced IEMs with my Cowon Plenue D, which is only single-ended.


----------



## project86

I think people read about how V281 and other balanced amps sound best via their 4-pin XLR output. Without any warnings on the adapter, or knowledge about possible consequences, these folks probably assume this is a safe way to tap the superior balanced output. I guess I understand on some level.... why would such an adapter exist if it was inherently dangerous? And yet, there it is, selling on ebay and amazon and probably other places.


----------



## zmhaha

project86 said:


> I think people read about how V281 and other balanced amps sound best via their 4-pin XLR output. Without any warnings on the adapter, or knowledge about possible consequences, these folks probably assume this is a safe way to tap the superior balanced output. I guess I understand on some level.... why would such an adapter exist if it was inherently dangerous? And yet, there it is, selling on ebay and amazon and probably other places.



Yea the amp manufactures really should put a very big warning on their websites and user manuals about this. 
I personally don't know much about the wirings and stuff... but my understanding is:
OK: balanced out --> adapter --> balanced in
OK: unbalanced out --> adapter --> balanced in
NOT OK: balanced out --> adapter --> unbalanced in  (possibly damaging the output device)


----------



## emptymt

Hi Guys, 

I just purchased the v281 today, really happy with the auditions in the shop, it was it against the iCan Pro using the Gumby, which I'm happy to elaborate if someone is interested.

I had to use my DAP which is the Fiio X7 II as the DAC for now, so I'm planning to buy Coax to RCA cable to connect to the v281, is this correct?

like this:
https://www.jbhifi.com.au/tv-home-e...-stereo-rca-to-3-5mm-audio-cable-2-0m/357294/
https://www.jbhifi.com.au/headphone...dioline-3-5mm-to-2-rca-cable-pro35rc2/888810/

I had though of getting the Audioquest tower, but I thought that it wouldn't make a notice-able difference and its only temporary until I get the Gumby.

From what I read, the v281 will convert single ended signal to balance in the end, is this also correct?

thx


----------



## zhgutov (Dec 29, 2017)

emptymt said:


> I had to use my DAP which is the Fiio X7 II as the DAC for now, so I'm planning to buy Coax to RCA cable to connect to the v281, is this correct?


This is not correct if you want to connect coax (digital!) out of your player to RCA analog inputs of V281.
You can connect line output (which is 3.5mm jack, I suppose) to RCA analog inputs (2xRCA) of V281.
Or if you have a DAC option with coax input in your V281, you can connect your player with the supplied cable from coax output to coax input of V281.

But... Why don't you want to use your Chord Mojo as a good source for a good amp?



emptymt said:


> From what I read, the v281 will convert single ended signal to balance in the end, is this also correct?


In this case you can use the balanced output for the headphones.


----------



## emptymt

zhgutov said:


> This is not correct if you want to connect coax (digital!) out of your player to RCA analog inputs of V281.
> You can connect line output (which is 3.5mm jack, I suppose) to RCA analog inputs (2xRCA) of V281.
> Or if you have a DAC option with coax input in your V281, you can connect your player with the supplied cable from coax output to coax input of V281.
> 
> ...



right, thx for being very clear, so I think the cables posted in the links i provide will work, thx.


----------



## 3083joe

zhgutov said:


> This is not correct if you want to connect coax (digital!) out of your player to RCA analog inputs of V281.
> You can connect line output (which is 3.5mm jack, I suppose) to RCA analog inputs (2xRCA) of V281.
> Or if you have a DAC option with coax input in your V281, you can connect your player with the supplied cable from coax output to coax input of V281.
> 
> ...



Question from your post. 
How would you use a chord mojo as a source to feed v281. I don’t see anyway to come out of the mojo into the v281?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## zhgutov

3083joe said:


> How would you use a chord mojo as a source to feed v281. I don’t see anyway to come out of the mojo into the v281?


There are two 3.5mm jacks. So, you can use 3.5mm TRS to 2xRCA cable to connect Mojo to V281.
See manual at the page 4: https://chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Mojo-Manual-28072016.pdf


----------



## 3083joe

zhgutov said:


> There are two 3.5mm jacks. So, you can use 3.5mm TRS to 2xRCA cable to connect Mojo to V281.
> See manual at the page 4: https://chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Mojo-Manual-28072016.pdf


Thanks so much for this, I was told by the dealer I purchased from told me it wasn't possible!


----------



## Kio635 (Dec 29, 2017)

I’ve followed this thread for some time now. Your positive reviews make me want to upgrade from my V200, which is already pretty good with my HD800 and LCD-3 (Fazor). I’ve got the opportunity to buy a new V220 (remote-controlled) for around 1,600 USD or a new V281 (also rc) for around 2,450 USD. As I have only standard 6.3mm jack cables for my headphones I would also have to buy balanced xlr-cables to get the full potential out of the V281. That would add maybe around 400-500 USD to the V281 bill. So, it would be 1,600 $ for V220 or around 2,900 for V281 incl. xlr cables.

I understand from this thread that V220 and V281 are basically identical except the balanced headphone output. Is the balanced output of the V281 really worth the additional cost – or, in other words - how much better is the balanced connection of the V281 than the normal 6.3mm jack connection of the V220?


----------



## 3083joe

Kio635 said:


> I’ve followed this thread for some time now. Your positive reviews make me want to upgrade from my V200, which is already pretty good with HD800 and LCD-3 (Fazor). I’ve got the opportunity to buy a new V220 (remote-controlled) for around 1,600 USD or a new V281 (also rc) for around 2,450 USD. As I have only standard 6.3mm jack cables for my headphones I would also have to buy balanced xlr-cables to get the full potential out of the V281. That would add maybe around 400-500 USD to the V281 bill. So, it would be 1,600 $ for V220 or around 2,900 for V281 incl. xlr cables.
> 
> I understand from this thread that V220 and V281 are basically identical except the balanced headphone output. Is the balanced output of the V281 really worth the additional cost – or, in other words - how much better is the balanced connection of the V281 than the normal 6.3mm jack connection of the V220?



From my experience, the balanced output makes the most difference and is well worth the extra money tho I'm sure you will enjoy either amp. But if you can swing the v281 go for it. and if you have to wait for the balanced cable at least you have the amp already.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Kio635 said:


> I’ve followed this thread for some time now. Your positive reviews make me want to upgrade from my V200, which is already pretty good with HD800 and LCD-3 (Fazor). I’ve got the opportunity to buy a new V220 (remote-controlled) for around 1,600 USD or a new V281 (also rc) for around 2,450 USD. As I have only standard 6.3mm jack cables for my headphones I would also have to buy balanced xlr-cables to get the full potential out of the V281. That would add maybe around 400-500 USD to the V281 bill. So, it would be 1,600 $ for V220 or around 2,900 for V281 incl. xlr cables.
> 
> I understand from this thread that V220 and V281 are basically identical except the balanced headphone output. Is the balanced output of the V281 really worth the additional cost – or, in other words - how much better is the balanced connection of the V281 than the normal 6.3mm jack connection of the V220?



Yes, the balanced connection of the V281 is absolutely worth the additional cost...but only so long as you have 1 or more headphones which permit balanced cables.

V220 is not basically identical to the V281. Instead, it's basically identical to your V200, but w/addition of preamp outs, different volume pot options, and capability to have the built-in Violectric DAC board. Despite those differences, the V200 & V220 should sound identical, or very close to it.

The V281 is basically identical to another Violectric option: the V280. It's ~$600 cheaper than the V281 and lacks preamp function, options for remote  only; or remote + 128-stepped pot; and capability of having the built-in Violectric DAC board.  Again, despite their differences, the V280 & V281 should sound identical, or close to it.

I have the V281 w/remote + stepped pot. It's a real beast: an endgame amp that sounds amazing and can do nearly anything you want it to...it's has the most flexible I/O controls I've ever encountered.

Coming from the V200, I would think either the V280 or V281 would be quite an upgrade sonically, if not also operationally--but only if you plan to listen to its balanced output. The SE outputs are really excellent (I use them all the time), but these designs are optimized for balanced output.

As for aftermarket balanced cables, the cost varies widely, depending on what headphones you have. I've discovered a really solid, good-sounding cable maker for SE &/or balanced cables--a quality 2M balanced cable can be ordered for ~$100 US. And if you happen to have headphones w/mini-XLR input jacks (Audeze or ZMF), ZMFHeadphones now offers an excellent OFC cable that's quite affordable by aftermarket cable standards (believe it's ~$160 for 2M). I have this cable and like its sound.

I also can recommend an inexpensive but very good-sounding SE cable (hardly the topic of your post!) from Ghent Audio...I use it for my Fidelio X2s.


----------



## novicez1

Skip the V220.


----------



## zhgutov

Some time ago I made the direct comparison between V200 and V220, and then between V200 and V281 with LCD-3.
Both V220 and V281 with SE outputs sound at least (in short) more open than V200. The difference is not subtle.
But yes, skip the V220, especially because you have the headphones which may be used with balanced output.


----------



## 3083joe

zhgutov said:


> There are two 3.5mm jacks. So, you can use 3.5mm TRS to 2xRCA cable to connect Mojo to V281.
> See manual at the page 4: https://chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Mojo-Manual-28072016.pdf



so with this its one 3.5 to the dual male rca?


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

emptymt said:


> I just purchased the v281 today, really happy with the auditions in the shop, it was it against the iCan Pro using the Gumby, which I'm happy to elaborate if someone is interested.



I sure am. Feel free to share here or pm me.


----------



## zhgutov

3083joe said:


> so with this its one 3.5 to the dual male rca?


Yes. Try to find the cable which has separate four wires right from the jack 3.5.

They look like this:






The following cable is probably (you can't be sure) splitted closer to RCA:





Such thing _may_ harm the crosstalk because of impedance of the common wire.


----------



## emptymt (Dec 30, 2017)

zhgutov said:


> Yes. Try to find the cable which has separate four wires right from the jack 3.5.
> 
> They look like this:
> 
> ...



thx mate,

I've already bought this one, but the 4m length one:
https://www.jbhifi.com.au/tv-home-e...-5mm-plug-to-2x-rca-stereo-plugs-1-5m/672754/

so far it performs very well and the amp sounds excellent, even with my fiio x7 ii as DAC!

interestingly enough i think this combo sounds better than the Gumby that i use to audition the v281 in the shop, but that Gumby is cold and has no warm up time at all, it sounds more shrilling and sharper than the DAC in my X7 II.
I think this is due to Schiit DACs needs to warm up to sound its best, just like other Schiit DAC users say in other threads.


----------



## zhgutov (Dec 30, 2017)

emptymt said:


> I've already bought this one, but the 4m length one


Unfortunately, I can see your link only via proxy, and I cannot load the picture for some reason.
But when I "google" the name of the cable I can see it _may be_ 3-wire, splitted closer to RCA.
And you have 4 meters of such cable! Not sure you have the best possible result.


----------



## emptymt

zhgutov said:


> Unfortunately, I can see your link only via proxy, and I cannot load the picture for some reason.
> But when I "google" the name of the cable I can see it _may be_ 3-wire, splitted closer to RCA.
> And you have 4 meters of such cable! Not sure you have the best possible result.



yeah, i actually tried to look for cables like this online before going out to buy one, i'm not really keen on spending big money on it since it will only be temporary, most of the cables i found looks to be split near the RCA, i also found some that is split from the 3.5mm jack, but the cable quality is questionable and will take longer to arrive, but at that time i only care about the quality rather than where it should split simply because i didn't know that it would affect the sound quality.

I want to my local electronic store chain called Jb Hi-fi and just buy one that looks well built and has OFC copper for the cable, in the end, I bought one cable made by the company Soniq (a company specializing in audio and home cinema in Australia), i thought i would buy the 2m ones, but the only available length at the time was 4m! it cost about $15 so i just went for it.

there is no description on where the cable is split but there are some descriptions about the material.

The set up sounds excellent though and since it is only temporary i think i'll be happy with it. The DAp kinda function like remote control now and i can sit a bit more far away from the amp.


----------



## emptymt (Dec 31, 2017)

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> I sure am. Feel free to share here or pm me.



Ok, here I go.

Set up:
Fiio X7 II  -->  Schiit Gumby  --> Violectric V281  ---> Norne Audio Arcane (Balance XLR)  --> Focal Utopia
Fiio X7 II  -->  Schiit Gumby  --> Ifi iCan Pro  ---> Norne Audio Arcane (Balance XLR)  --> Focal Utopia

Both the v281 and ican pro are connected to the same DAC unit and is volume matched as close as I can by ear. Basically i just need to plug in and out the cable to the amp that I want to hear, to minimize the time to change the set up while retaining auditory memory of the same tracks in the same song part.
I listen to metal and I chose songs that begins in vocal (clean and harsh), technical fast guitar solos, drum cymbals and blast beats accompanied by guitars, silent phases with guitar openings.
This is because it is quick to rewind to the beginning of the songs by pressing previous after changing amps.
This went down for about an hour with other guys auditioning other gears just right next to me.

Tracks chosen will compare how the 2 amps differ in bass, treble, mids and vocal liquidity, sibillance, etc.

I'll only elaborate the solid state and tube mode since i don't like the tube+ mode.

*iCan Pro Solid State mode and comparisons in general*

From what I can hear when comparing apples to apples between the v281 and iCan pro in solid state mode, I can hear that the v281 has more natural body in the bass thickness while having stronger dynamics and attacks, the sub-bass rumble is also more apparent, the bass just makes more memorable impression on the songs for me when using the v281, i would say that it has more physicality to it, but i'm not sure it this is the correct word. V281 is also tonally warmer than the iCan and I like that.
After that i feel that i need to kick up the bass a notch by using the 10 hz xbass, I could hear something happening there with the iCan, it has more rumble down low now and the bass has a very slight increase in the bass thickness, but it still does not have the attacks and dynamics that the v281 does.
Going to the 20hz xbass, again, i feel some difference going on here, I feel that this increase the thickness even more and the bass feel louder across the board now, but it still does not have the attack, in fact i feel that it is softer in attack now because the bass is thicker and a bit louder now but the punchi-ness stays the same as if it wasn't boosted.
I also tried the 30hz xbass, I didn't like this one, i feel that it muddies the bass slightly and didn't spend much time on it.

Moving onto the guitars and vocals, I feel that the iCan is dryer while the v281 is more liquid, guitar solos sounds thinner in the iCan and i could see that this could be a problem for some people, because the v281 has more natural body to its thickness and its liquidity, i feel that the v281 is more musical in this department, both are detailed and fast sounding, resolving every notes and guitar flicks excellently, you can hear when the finger hits the string and those raw guitar distortions very well.
On the Vocals, I feel that clean vocals both sounds natural on these, maybe a little bit more forward in presentation on the iCan pro, it also has faster decay than the v281 I feel. Even though it is less forward in the v281, I feel that the music is being represented very well, i feel like those guitars and drums are wrapped around the singer, who is slightly behind but the vocal never get buried in the mix, everything has its own place and is not trying outdone each other instead everything is in harmony. the ican is more 2 dimensional i feel, you have the singer in the middle with other instruments on the side having more width than depth.
Cymbals sounds crisp on both but i feel that the iCan is a little bit brighter than the v281 in presentation, both are smooth and not being offensive at all.

What's amazing about the iCan is that the xbass function only affects the bass and does not change the mids and treble at all, which is excellent and what we want, from what i hear the mids in the iCan is excellent and has great detail retrieval, so we don't want to mess with that, but if you want to make the overall tonality warmer, you can use the amp in tube or even tube+ mode.

*iCan Pro Tube mode (what changes happen)*
The tube makes the iCan pro warmer in overall tonality and its representation is closer to the v281 now, for my taste, this is the best mode for the iCan along with 10hz xbass as it has better definition on the body, it has a bit more wetness to the guitars and vocals but it is done very tastefully, the detail retrieval and technicalities stay that same as in solid state mode. It still does not has the attack and dynamic of the v281 but it does not get softer either so a win-win for me comparing to the solid state.
I think that soundstage is reduced very slightly in this mode compared to the solid state, but this could be my imagination.

*Summary (and notes for me)*
The iCan pro gives flexibility to alter it's sound that offers a chance to modify the music due to mastering, etc.
The V281 gives flexibility in power and pre-amp function.
Both are powerful units but the v281 even more so, although most of these power is unusable for most headphone.
Technicalities, Clarity and micro details is probably similar and at the same level, it's hard to give a straight answer to this due to audition environment.
V281 is more musical than the iCan, even in tube mode although it's still musical.
V281 soundstage is more spherical than iCan Pro which is more Oval on horizontal axis.
V281 outclass the iCan Pro very clearly in attacks and dynamics.

*What sways me to buy the v281 instead of the iCan Pro*
1. I listen to music not only for enjoyment but also while i'm working, the iCan has a lot of options to modify the sound, I don't want this to bother me instead of working.
2. I like the tonality better on the v281, in fact i like the iCan pro in tube mode because it becomes warmer, why not get one that is warmer from the beginning.
3. V281 has better attacks and dynamics, biggest win over the iCan pro for me, it is more dynamic and more physical across the board, the guitar sounds more daring and bass feel more immediate feeling.
4. Build quality seems better on the v281, it feels heavy and solid, fitted very well just like German car.
5. the features being offered in the iCan pro is not very useful to me, I like the Xbass only in 10hz and 20 hz, the 3d soundstage makes music sounds weird for me, at least for metal music.
6. At the time of purchase the v281 is discounted and is cheaper than the iCan pro, provided that it was a demo unit, but it looks brand new and has same warranty so i went for it.
7. iCan pro has tube, but it's not replaceable using other tubes, so you can't tube-roll, which is something i'm interested to try but simply can't on this amp.
8. the pre-amp function in the v281 could be useful for me in the future, when i move out to my own place and wants a good speaker set-up.
9. v281 has been known to be able to drive IEMs well despite its power, this could be useful because sometimes i got in a review tour, in Australia it's mostly IEMs.
10. Other reviews online about the iCan pro seems to indicate that it's slightly below amps such as GSX, v281, etc, to which I agree after hearing both.

hmm i think these could serve as base for a review when i feel like it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

emptymt said:


> Ok, here I go.
> 
> Set up:
> Fiio X7 II  -->  Schiit Gumby  --> Violectric V281  ---> Norne Audio Arcane (Balance XLR)  --> Focal Utopia
> ...



RE "hmm i think these could serve as base for a review when i feel like it" -- for real! This is a pretty extensive comparison of these 2 amps. 

I have (& really like) the V281; a pal has (and likes) the iCan Pro. I look forward to comparing these 2 amps... 

PS: the "german car" analogy is dead-on. V281 feels/acts like one of the 1st BMWs I ever rode in: tight, fast, responsive, strongly put together.


----------



## 3083joe

emptymt said:


> Ok, here I go.
> 
> Set up:
> Fiio X7 II  -->  Schiit Gumby  --> Violectric V281  ---> Norne Audio Arcane (Balance XLR)  --> Focal Utopia
> ...




Impressive review. 
Thanks.


----------



## BLacklWf (Jan 5, 2018)

Kio635 said:


> I’ve followed this thread for some time now. Your positive reviews make me want to upgrade from my V200, which is already pretty good with my HD800 and LCD-3 (Fazor). I’ve got the opportunity to buy a new V220 (remote-controlled) for around 1,600 USD or a new V281 (also rc) for around 2,450 USD. As I have only standard 6.3mm jack cables for my headphones I would also have to buy balanced xlr-cables to get the full potential out of the V281. That would add maybe around 400-500 USD to the V281 bill. So, it would be 1,600 $ for V220 or around 2,900 for V281 incl. xlr cables.
> 
> I understand from this thread that V220 and V281 are basically identical except the balanced headphone output. Is the balanced output of the V281 really worth the additional cost – or, in other words - how much better is the balanced connection of the V281 than the normal 6.3mm jack connection of the V220?


I suppose V281 is two V220s (*correction V200, not V220) slapped together.  So, I'd assume V281 SE out is similar to V220 SE out.  I like balanced out on V281 MUCH better than SE out on V281 - not even comparable with HD6XX or LCD-2 Classic for my ears - a different in class of its own. YMMV.


----------



## PHC1 (Jan 3, 2018)

May sound a bit strange, may sound a bit hard to believe but here goes.. Perhaps power conditioning is not something that is as popular with the headphone community as it is in 2 channel audio. I have been into 2 channel audio much longer than headphones (almost 30 years now) so to me a good power conditioner is a must for any 2 channel system. So here is an interesting story for the Violectric fans. I have a V281 and a few other amps plugged into a Richard Gray Power Conditioner that I have been using for the past 8-9 years. It has always been "pretty good" at what it does. Certainly there is a noticeable difference when I plug anything in my headphone audio chain straight into the wall vs a power conditioner. It always manifests itself as a smoother, silkier treble, typically better resolution in the bass and micro detail retrieval increases. As the noise floor drops, the blacks become blacker and it is easier to hear deeper into the soundstage. This is a fact with any decent power conditioner. Now, just the other day I started noticing a change in sound quality with my other 3 amps except the V281 at certain times. I could not put my finger on it but I finally figured it out this evening. Whenever I turned my V281 OFF, the sound got worse from the other amp that I was listening to. I was able to duplicate the results by carefully listening to any other amp and just by turning the V281 on or off, the sound was always better with the V281 being ON! What the??? I would understand the opposite, noise from another amp dirtying the AC line but OFF??? Well, turns out the power supply of the V281 has very good filtering and conditioning, so much so, that in this case was actually filtering the AC coming in and out. Don't forget, AC moves both ways... I have to say in all my years being involved with audio, this is a new one for me. I would have never believed it if I did not witness this first hand and was able to duplicate it each and every time. Kudos to Violectric for building such an outstanding power supply that actually affects everything downstream from it in a positive way. Learn something new every day.


----------



## zhgutov

PHC1 said:


> Whenever I turned my V281 OFF, the sound got worse from the other amp that I was listening to. I was able to duplicate the results by carefully listening to any other amp and just by turning the V281 on or off, the sound was always better with the V281 being ON! What the???


Secret feature?
Violectric should add this to the list.

Well, I use simple AC filter with the shielded power cables.
It seems that the whole system sound better (in the similar way).
But I am not 100% sure about that.
I have not had A/B this.
Just set it and forgot about that.

Is there anybody who made A/B with power cables/conditioners?


----------



## PHC1

zhgutov said:


> Secret feature?
> Violectric should add this to the list.
> 
> Well, I use simple AC filter with the shielded power cables.
> ...


I have. Many times. Ranging from rather inexpensive to rather outrageously priced and the results have been from barely noticeable to outstanding. As with anything else in audio, the key is finding a good power conditioner that offers value to performance ratio you are comfortable with.


----------



## PHC1

As far as power cables. I found the best synergy with Wireworld Silver Electra 7 power cord so far. Also tried Shunyata Venon HC and it was better than the stock power cord but not quite as good as the Wireworld. Again, this is something that is up to each individual to determine and figure out the price to performance ratio they are comfortable with.


----------



## Pharmaboy

PHC1 said:


> May sound a bit strange, may sound a bit hard to believe but here goes.. Perhaps power conditioning is not something that is as popular with the headphone community as it is in 2 channel audio. I have been into 2 channel audio much longer than headphones (almost 30 years now) so to me a good power conditioner is a must for any 2 channel system. So here is an interesting story for the Violectric fans. I have a V281 and a few other amps plugged into a Richard Gray Power Conditioner that I have been using for the past 8-9 years. It has always been "pretty good" at what it does. Certainly there is a noticeable difference when I plug anything in my headphone audio chain straight into the wall vs a power conditioner. It always manifests itself as a smoother, silkier treble, typically better resolution in the bass and micro detail retrieval increases. As the noise floor drops, the blacks become blacker and it is easier to hear deeper into the soundstage. This is a fact with any decent power conditioner. Now, just the other day I started noticing a change in sound quality with my other 3 amps except the V281 at certain times. I could not put my finger on it but I finally figured it out this evening. Whenever I turned my V281 OFF, the sound got worse from the other amp that I was listening to. I was able to duplicate the results by carefully listening to any other amp and just by turning the V281 on or off, the sound was always better with the V281 being ON! What the??? I would understand the opposite, noise from another amp dirtying the AC line but OFF??? Well, turns out the power supply of the V281 has very good filtering and conditioning, so much so, that in this case was actually filtering the AC coming in and out. Don't forget, AC moves both ways... I have to say in all my years being involved with audio, this is a new one for me. I would have never believed it if I did not witness this first hand and was able to duplicate it each and every time. Kudos to Violectric for building such an outstanding power supply that actually affects everything downstream from it in a positive way. Learn something new every day.



Fascinating post!

Whenever my V281 is in the system and powered up (75% of the time), another amp is always on at the same time (dual RCA outputs from DAC allow this). I have a desktop UPS powering all audio gear, so consider that a big/bad power conditioner of sorts.

The only interaction I've ever noticed is when one of the amps is the Audio GD SA-31SE (as preamp as well as amp). Only then will I notice distortion in lower frequencies when volume is above low-level. But I'm pretty sure that has to do w/AGD amp having shorted input plugs (it has 5 inputs; previous owner shorted 4 of the 5). Anyway, I've learned whenever I hear that distortion, just torn on the 2nd amp (doesn't matter which one it is)--back to perfect sound.

That pretty obviously a different phenomenon that what you described, though.

But I can believe anything about the V281. It's built like a NASA rocket ship.


----------



## zhgutov

Pharmaboy said:


> I have a desktop UPS powering all audio gear, so consider that a big/bad power conditioner of sorts.


I don't know which UPS do you use, but I tried two different UPS with so called modified sine output (square wave or something similar).
In this case this gear always sounded slightly muddy. Finally, I removed such devices from the chain.


----------



## reklov

FumblingFoo said:


> Seems like the RS 05 would be an awesome addendum to my v850 / v281 stack (very beautiful stack btw zhgutov  ). Can't wait to buy the RS 05 probably around thanksgiving or Christmas. The thing is, I can't find it on the USA Violectric website. Will it ever be available here? I tried adding it to cart on the lake people website but couldn't get the cart / website to work, plus I'm not sure how to add the femto clock option because I didn't see a menu for that (simply an add to cart button, which didn't work for me).


Hi FumblingFoo, I own the HPA280 and DAC850 (besides the PRE630 and PPA600 to connect my Rega to active speakers and HPA at the same time), and I‘m very curious how much the RS05 can contribute to even better SQ. Did you get one as you announced above?


----------



## PHC1

zhgutov said:


> I don't know which UPS do you use, but I tried two different UPS with so called modified sine output (square wave or something similar).
> In this case this gear always sounded slightly muddy. Finally, I removed such devices from the chain.


Yes, these types of products hardly ever do any good for audio. Unless it is a power conditioner that is designed with audio use in mind, I don't bother with them and it is not for the lack of trying. The muddy bass and overall lean sound that lacks body and meat on the bones as well as making the upper end sound harsh and brittle is the pretty typical result. I have yet to come across one that does not have that effect. Stick to "audio grade" power conditioners, they can and do make a rather noticeable and appreciable difference in sound quality.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> I don't know which UPS do you use, but I tried two different UPS with so called modified sine output (square wave or something similar).
> In this case this gear always sounded slightly muddy. Finally, I removed such devices from the chain.



My UPS is APC BR1500. It was the most powerful compact/desktop model available 8-9 yrs ago, rated for 1500V/865W output & ~30" runtime on battery (battery time is load-dependent) + automatic voltage regulation (useful during brown-outs) & impressive surge protection on all outlets. 

One advantage of using this lower-tier APC model is there's no circuitry to "rebuild" the sine wave or regenerate output power w/in specs needed by medical equipment or powerful servers. Thus there's zero audible effect of having this UPS between all my audio gear & incoming power.

BTW, I use this UPS in a somewhat different manner than when I first purchased it. Then I was solely dependent on it to permit "orderly shut-down" of my computers. But 5-6 yrs ago I got a propane-fired standgy generator + automatic transfer switch (system is more than large enough to drive the entire house & all elec. systems). It takes ~8 seconds for the ATS to kick the generator on during a power outage--so now it's only during those 8 seconds that the UPS proves its value--keeping my computer & audio gear continue operating as if nothing was happening.

Back to the V281--I have on various occasions heard it powered by just regular power outlets here (no UPS). If there's a difference between that and the sound powered by UPS, I can't hear it.


----------



## PHC1 (Jan 3, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> Back to the V281--I have on various occasions heard it powered by just regular power outlets here (no UPS). *If there's a difference between that and the sound powered by UPS, I can't hear it*.


I've been down that road with all kinds of UPS and audiophile grade power conditioners over the last 30 years. A well designed audio grade power conditioner is not something you will NOT notice.  Of course everything else should be in order such as decent power cable, interconnects and of course the headphone cable itself. The audio chain is only as strong as the weakest link. By comparison to 2 channel audio, with headphones, the biggest obstacle to good sound which is the room itself and how your speakers interact in that acoustic environment is removed from the equation. That is both great and bad. Great because you are not dealing with all kinds of frequency anomalies of speaker to room interaction but bad because the headphones are also so revealing of upstream components. These differences in cabling and other components are sometimes lost or overshadowed by bigger problems with 2 channel audio but not in headphones. So it is very important that the whole chain of headphone playback is top notch. What "top notch" means is up to you and your budget to decide of course.  One thing I can tell you with certainty, the amount of money one spends on a great headphone rig would cost 10-20x as much to even remotely come close to same sound quality and that is not taking acoustic treatments for the room into consideration. Great speakers do not come cheap and neither do great amplifiers, preamplifiers and DACs to drive it all.


----------



## PHC1

Getting back to Violectric V281. The reason I instantly fell in love with the V281 sound signature. Being into 2 channel, high end audio for so long, I've had many an amplifier grace my system over the years. The most elusive and coveted quality in 2 channel audio is an amplifier that can pull off the balancing act of sounding dynamic, transparent, resolving, having a great grip on speakers it is driving and at the same time to be smooth, grain-less, to have proper weight, body and soul. Being engaging and musical. These are the criteria for the long term listening satisfaction. This is a difficult task for the designer. Many amplifiers tend to nail some aspects but miss the others. Being dynamic but sterile, being smooth but boring and uninvolving, sounding extremely resolving and fast but missing the musicality and soul mark. Yes, I have come across, owned and auditioned many amplifiers and some of them cost as much as a new BMW. That is what it takes sometimes to nail the mark, perfection does not come cheap. I was grinning ear to ear when I received my V281, plugged in my headphones and instantly recognized all the sonic qualities I would have loved to carry over from my 2 channel audio days. Yes, the V281 nails it solid when it comes to all the sonic qualities coveted by seasoned audiophiles. How great is that to find such a product at multiples less than a comparable 2 channel amp? Love the V281.


----------



## zhgutov

Pharmaboy said:


> My UPS is APC BR1500


Oh, it seems that your UPS has _stepped approximation_ to a sine wave.
This should be better than just square wave.
But I have not tried anything like that yet.


----------



## PHC1

Guys, those UPS very often have terribly noisy power supplies. It is a crapshoot and often they do more harm then good when it comes to audio.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Apparently I'm winning this particular crap-shoot. 

Luck + ignorance (of electronics details) go together nicely.


----------



## zhgutov

reklov said:


> Hi FumblingFoo, I own the HPA280 and DAC850 (besides the PRE630 and PPA600 to connect my Rega to active speakers and HPA at the same time), and I‘m very curious how much the RS05 can contribute to even better SQ. Did you get one as you announced above?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...pressions-thread.761936/page-20#post-13732478
Sorry for interference


----------



## BLacklWf

PHC1 said:


> May sound a bit strange, may sound a bit hard to believe but here goes.. Perhaps power conditioning is not something that is as popular with the headphone community as it is in 2 channel audio. I have been into 2 channel audio much longer than headphones (almost 30 years now) so to me a good power conditioner is a must for any 2 channel system. So here is an interesting story for the Violectric fans. I have a V281 and a few other amps plugged into a Richard Gray Power Conditioner that I have been using for the past 8-9 years. It has always been "pretty good" at what it does. Certainly there is a noticeable difference when I plug anything in my headphone audio chain straight into the wall vs a power conditioner. It always manifests itself as a smoother, silkier treble, typically better resolution in the bass and micro detail retrieval increases. As the noise floor drops, the blacks become blacker and it is easier to hear deeper into the soundstage. This is a fact with any decent power conditioner. Now, just the other day I started noticing a change in sound quality with my other 3 amps except the V281 at certain times. I could not put my finger on it but I finally figured it out this evening. Whenever I turned my V281 OFF, the sound got worse from the other amp that I was listening to. I was able to duplicate the results by carefully listening to any other amp and just by turning the V281 on or off, the sound was always better with the V281 being ON! What the??? I would understand the opposite, noise from another amp dirtying the AC line but OFF??? Well, turns out the power supply of the V281 has very good filtering and conditioning, so much so, that in this case was actually filtering the AC coming in and out. Don't forget, AC moves both ways... I have to say in all my years being involved with audio, this is a new one for me. I would have never believed it if I did not witness this first hand and was able to duplicate it each and every time. Kudos to Violectric for building such an outstanding power supply that actually affects everything downstream from it in a positive way. Learn something new every day.


Their power cord is also very nice. I want to buy like 5 power cords from Arthur.


----------



## 3083joe

zhgutov said:


> Yes. Try to find the cable which has separate four wires right from the jack 3.5.
> 
> They look like this:
> 
> ...



Good morning 

I am getting no sound with this setup 
iPhone to mojo
Single 3.5 out
dual rca
Into v281. 
Any help?

Thanks in advance


----------



## zhgutov (Jan 5, 2018)

3083joe said:


> Good morning
> 
> I am getting no sound with this setup
> iPhone to mojo
> ...


Do you have a sound in the headphones in this case (from Mojo, not in the line level mode)?
Do you set Line level mode with your Mojo when it is connected to V281 (see manual)?
Do you have a sound with 3.5 to 2xRCA with other gear?


----------



## 3083joe

zhgutov said:


> Do you have a sound in the headphones in this case (from Mojo, not in the line level mode)?
> Do you set Line level mode with your Mojo when it is connected to V281 (see manual)?
> Do you have a sound with 3.5 to 2xRCA with other gear?


Ok. Mojo is auto on imput etc. 
and yes with the other gear.


----------



## fixated

3083joe said:


> Ok. Mojo is auto on imput etc.
> and yes with the other gear.



Curious, do you have the inputs set to RCA?


----------



## zhgutov

3083joe said:


> Ok. Mojo is auto on imput etc.
> and yes with the other gear.


Do you have a sound when you connect something else to RCA inputs of the V281?


----------



## 3083joe

zhgutov said:


> Do you have a sound when you connect something else to RCA inputs of the V281?


Yes. Just nothing with mojo from the 3.5


----------



## 3083joe

lonerboy13 said:


> Curious, do you have the inputs set to RCA?


Yes on the v281.


----------



## zhgutov (Jan 5, 2018)

3083joe said:


> Yes. Just nothing with mojo from the 3.5


But you have a sound with the headphones from the 3.5 in that case?
If so, how do you set the output level on your Mojo when it is connected to V281?


----------



## 3083joe

zhgutov said:


> But you have a sound with the headphones from the 3.5 in that case?
> If so, how do you set the output level on your Mojo when it is connected to V281?


You can’t set the output it, auto selects (no selector)
And coming out of the 3.5 does nothing except when headphones are attached to it.


----------



## 3083joe

3083joe said:


> You can’t set the output it, auto selects (no selector)
> And coming out of the 3.5 does nothing except when headphones are attached to it.


This is why I was told it doesn’t work as a source (dac only)


----------



## zhgutov (Jan 5, 2018)

3083joe said:


> This is why I was told it doesn’t work as a source (dac only)


Rob Watts does not think so. He tells it does not matter is it used as a headphone output or as a line level output. You can google that with ease.

According to manual you can set the line level output with the following:

_To set the output level to 3V ( line level ) for connection to a preamplifier press both volume buttons together when switching on the unit. Both volume balls will illuminate light blue. This mode is not remembered so when you switch off it will reset back to the previous volume stored for safety reasons._

Have you tried this (don't use the headphones with the Mojo in this "mode")?


----------



## fixated

3083joe said:


> This is why I was told it doesn’t work as a source (dac only)



Actually tried that setup before so I'm confused to see what seems to be the issue with how you're setting it up. I used an AQ cinnamon 3.5mm to RCA cable before and that seems to work fine, had to put the mojo in Line Level (where you hold both buttons while turning it on) and then pressing the volume down with 4 (or 3) clicks to get to 1.9V. You'll have to check over at the mojo thread as I've not had the mojo for a while.


----------



## 3083joe

lonerboy13 said:


> Actually tried that setup before so I'm confused to see what seems to be the issue with how you're setting it up. I used an AQ cinnamon 3.5mm to RCA cable before and that seems to work fine, had to put the mojo in Line Level (where you hold both buttons while turning it on) and then pressing the volume down with 4 (or 3) clicks to get to 1.9V. You'll have to check over at the mojo thread as I've not had the mojo for a while.



I haven’t tried the line level, didn’t see it in manual. I’ll also look over there 
Thanks


----------



## 3083joe

zhgutov said:


> Rob Watts does not think so. He tells it does not matter is it used as a headphone output or as a line level output. You can google that with ease.
> 
> According to manual you can set the line level output with the following:
> 
> ...


I haven’t tried line level will do this and let you all know.  Thanks


----------



## PleasantSounds (Jan 5, 2018)

I have used Mojo as a DAC with the V281, with the source being either a phone (Android) or a PC. There's really no tricks to that - just plug the right cables in the right holes and it works.
The line mode on Mojo is just a preset for output volume, so don't expect miracles.
If Mojo outputs sound through headphones and the V281 works fine with the RCA input, then there's only one suspect between them: you should try a different 3.5mm to RCA cable.

Edit: Also make sure that the 3.5mm plug goes all the way in. Sometimes small variances in size cause that a bit of force has to be applied.


----------



## 3083joe

PleasantSounds said:


> I have used Mojo as a DAC with the V281, with the source being either a phone (Android) or a PC. There's really no tricks to that - just plug the right cables in the right holes and it works.
> The line mode on Mojo is just a preset for output volume, so don't expect miracles.
> If Mojo outputs sound through headphones and the V281 works fine with the RCA input, then there's only one suspect between them: you should try a different 3.5mm to RCA cable.
> 
> Edit: Also make sure that the 3.5mm plug goes all the way in. Sometimes small variances in size cause that a bit of force has to be applied.


Ok. I will try this also and report back. 

Thanks.


----------



## zhgutov (Jan 6, 2018)

PleasantSounds said:


> The line mode on Mojo is just a preset for output volume, so don't expect miracles.


As I know, the output level may be set higher than 3V (line level).
In most cases with the headphones nobody will go higher.
But with line out it is possible and easy, and the signal may be clipped (Chord feature).
So, probably, @lonerboy13 made the best recommendation to start with the "line level".
And then to save this level with the volume buttons.
Maybe just press down and up once.
I don't think there is any reason to go to 1.9 V or something like this, at least with V281.
As I can see, this measurements are made with the 3V (11.5 dBu) output:
http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/chord-mojo.php
In this case it is probably better to use pre-gain on V281 to adjust the volume pot range.


----------



## FumblingFoo

reklov said:


> Hi FumblingFoo, I own the HPA280 and DAC850 (besides the PRE630 and PPA600 to connect my Rega to active speakers and HPA at the same time), and I‘m very curious how much the RS05 can contribute to even better SQ. Did you get one as you announced above?



Been a while since I've been around on the forums, sorry for the long delay reklov . Looks like zhgutov beat me to it lol .


----------



## PHC1

We were discussing power conditioners earlier. I found one that I absolutely love with the V281 and my DAC. I posted my findings on it. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/keces-balanced-power-conditioner.869377/

I highly recommend using this Balanced Power Conditioner and Surge Suppressor. Hear what your V281 is really capable of. I got the 2 outlet BP-600 as it is all I need for my amp and DAC. http://keces-audio-usa.com/products


----------



## Badas (Jan 9, 2018)

PHC1 said:


> We were discussing power conditioners earlier. I found one that I absolutely love with the V281 and my DAC. I posted my findings on it. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/keces-balanced-power-conditioner.869377/
> 
> I highly recommend using this Balanced Power Conditioner and Surge Suppressor. Hear what your V281 is really capable of. I got the 2 outlet BP-600 as it is all I need for my amp and DAC. http://keces-audio-usa.com/products



I have always used power conditioners. I don't think I have had audio equipment plugged straight into walls since the early 2000's.

I currently use a Belkin Pure AV. The thing is a beast. The bottom component on this rack. Old pic. I have Yggy now.








Power conditioners are vital to home Theater. This one is nice that you can set modes. So I have a HP mode that only leaves HP
Equipment powered and cuts the power to everything else.
When using home Theater mode it cuts power to all HP equipment.
I also have a gaming mode and music speakers mode.


----------



## tonyxiaoz

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I've been looking at the V281 and V280 for my HD800S, and I'm wondering if anyone can confirm that there's no sonic differences between these two amps when connected with headphones. Is the difference mainly just the preamp function of the V281? Thanks.


----------



## SaddleSC

tonyxiaoz said:


> Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I've been looking at the V281 and V280 for my HD800S, and I'm wondering if anyone can confirm that there's no sonic differences between these two amps when connected with headphones. Is the difference mainly just the preamp function of the V281? Thanks.



I just ordered my V281 last week after going back and forth between it and the V280. From what I have been told (by Arthur) and read on the forums, they should sound virtually identical. You should choose the V281 if you want the preamp functionality OR the volume control options (with remote or stepped attenuator) OR the balance function. I don't really have a use for the preamp functions right now and I selected the standard volume control, but still chose the V281 because I just liked the looks of the bigger amp better and I also like the idea of the bigger knob


----------



## tonyxiaoz

SaddleSC said:


> I just ordered my V281 last week after going back and forth between it and the V280. From what I have been told (by Arthur) and read on the forums, they should sound virtually identical. You should choose the V281 if you want the preamp functionality OR the volume control options (with remote or stepped attenuator) OR the balance function. I don't really have a use for the preamp functions right now and I selected the standard volume control, but still chose the V281 because I just liked the looks of the bigger amp better and I also like the idea of the bigger knob



For the balance function, doesn't V280 also have a balanced out?


----------



## SaddleSC

tonyxiaoz said:


> For the balance function, doesn't V280 also have a balanced out?



Yes...I was referring to the balance control knob in the upper right of the V281 that allows the user to control the balance between L/R channels.


----------



## tonyxiaoz

SaddleSC said:


> Yes...I was referring to the balance control knob in the upper right of the V281 that allows the user to control the balance between L/R channels.


Oh I see. My bad


----------



## PHC1

SaddleSC said:


> I just ordered my V281 last week after going back and forth between it and the V280. From what I have been told (by Arthur) and read on the forums, they should sound virtually identical. You should choose the V281 if you want the preamp functionality OR the volume control options (with remote or stepped attenuator) OR the balance function. I don't really have a use for the preamp functions right now and I selected the standard volume control, but still chose the V281 because I just liked the looks of the bigger amp better and I also like the idea of the bigger knob


Congrats, you will love it.


----------



## tonyxiaoz

Did you buy the V281 from the official website or is there a seller you recommend?


----------



## SaddleSC

PHC1 said:


> Congrats, you will love it.



Thanks...it should be arriving at the end of the week so I will post impressions soon!



tonyxiaoz said:


> Did you buy the V281 from the official website or is there a seller you recommend?



Yes sir, I ordered directly through violectric-usa. Arthur is the proprietor and he is absolutely fantastic. He and I communicated back and forth via email for a couple weeks before I made my final decision...just a great guy all around. Very patient and very knowledgeable about the product...I highly recommend dropping him an email if you have any questions that you can't find the answer to on the forum.


----------



## tonyxiaoz

Thanks for the help. I will definitely check the site out.


----------



## Pharmaboy

SaddleSC said:


> Thanks...it should be arriving at the end of the week so I will post impressions soon!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes sir, I ordered directly through violectric-usa. Arthur is the proprietor and he is absolutely fantastic. He and I communicated back and forth via email for a couple weeks before I made my final decision...just a great guy all around. Very patient and very knowledgeable about the product...I highly recommend dropping him an email if you have any questions that you can't find the answer to on the forum.



I predict the V281 will impress you greatly. And Arthur is tops, great to deal with...


----------



## PHC1

SaddleSC said:


> Thanks...it should be arriving at the end of the week so I will post impressions soon!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes sir, I ordered directly through violectric-usa. Arthur is the proprietor and he is absolutely fantastic. He and I communicated back and forth via email for a couple weeks before I made my final decision...just a great guy all around. Very patient and very knowledgeable about the product...I highly recommend dropping him an email if you have any questions that you can't find the answer to on the forum.


Yes, Arthur is great. Very knowledgeable and a pleasure to deal with.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Sorry for the repeat. I don't have a lot of luck with the search engine.
Do most on here think the balanced output is a more enjoyable sound?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Single-ended outputs are quite good (everything about the V281 is)--but the balanced output is a few degrees away, in endgame territory.


----------



## Luke Thomas

I've been going back and forth. I'm picking up a little more detail from the rythem guitar and key board. . The balanced might give a smidge more detail


----------



## PHC1

Luke Thomas said:


> Sorry for the repeat. I don't have a lot of luck with the search engine.
> Do most on here think the balanced output is a more enjoyable sound?



Yes but some headphones sound noticeably better while some just barely so.


----------



## fixated

Luke Thomas said:


> Sorry for the repeat. I don't have a lot of luck with the search engine.
> Do most on here think the balanced output is a more enjoyable sound?



I haven't used the SE output in a while so just basing it from memory, I remember thinking that the balanced output had more weight and better instrument separation.

I think most of the people who get the V281 get it for the balanced so it's probably a good indicator that the balanced is superb (at least that's what I think).


----------



## zhgutov

PHC1 said:


> Yes but some headphones sound noticeably better while some just barely so.


Can you tell which headphones sound noticeably better in your case, and which just barely so?


----------



## PHC1

zhgutov said:


> Can you tell which headphones sound noticeably better in your case, and which just barely so?


Audeze LCD3, LCD2C, Focal Utopia, Elear were clearly better. Sennheiser HD600/650 not a significant but still appreciable difference. Mr. Speakers Aeon Open Flow not so much but it is a 13 ohm headphone. Fostex TH-X00Ebony only has a SE cable so no choice there. I think any headphone that is laid back sounding in general may mask some of the benefits of balanced drive. In terms of a balanced drive benefit, clearly more dynamic with an increase in detail/perceived resolution, better focused imaging.


----------



## 3083joe

Badas said:


> I have always used power conditioners. I don't think I have had audio equipment plugged straight into walls since the early 2000's.
> 
> I currently use a Belkin Pure AV. The thing is a beast. The bottom component on this rack. Old pic. I have Yggy now.
> 
> ...


Sweet my friend.


----------



## PleasantSounds

PHC1 said:


> Audeze LCD3, LCD2C, Focal Utopia, Elear were clearly better. Sennheiser HD600/650 not a significant but still appreciable difference. Mr. Speakers Aeon Open Flow not so much but it is a 13 ohm headphone. Fostex TH-X00Ebony only has a SE cable so no choice there. I think any headphone that is laid back sounding in general may mask some of the benefits of balanced drive. In terms of a balanced drive benefit, clearly more dynamic with an increase in detail/perceived resolution, better focused imaging.



You should consider re-terminating the TH-X00 with an XLR plug. Makes a massive difference!


----------



## PHC1

PleasantSounds said:


> You should consider re-terminating the TH-X00 with an XLR plug. Makes a massive difference!


Will give it a try thanks.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Indeed. When I ran the AH-D7200 balanced on the V281 after a week of using the SE output I was borderline careless about volume (just exaggerating a bit) because the improvements were oustanding. Quoting myself:

"So how does the AH-D7200 improve when running balanced? First it improves slam and kick. The headphone hits harder now, the bass is held even more with an iron grip. Some tracks I got used to before now kick so hard - it's a another form of deep satisfaction I have to be careful about. I'm watching the volume levels of course. Soundstage gains width and height (typical for the V281), more breathing room for the 7200 to shine (details, separation). Depth is unfortunately not the strongest trait of these DENONs, at least compared to the HD800 - which of course are another level in that matter."


----------



## WilliamWykeham

Some impressions on headphone and amp combos, mostly confirming what others have said -- I recently switched out a Bryston BHA1 for the V281. The BHA1 had excellent synergy with the HE1000, a slightly bright/analytical amp and warm cans. Now I'm connecting the V281 mostly to the HD800, where bright/warm characteristics are reversed compared to the BHA1 and HE1000. I'm loving this combo and the HD800 is like totally different headphone. 

Unfortunately I'm not liking the HE1000 paired with the V281; there's just for me too warm and dark a sound.  So I've ordered silver headphone cables and am hoping the upper mids improve, and if they don't I may sell the HE1000. With the V281 the only genre where I'm finding the HE1000 to best the HD800 is hip hop and maybe R&B. For everything else I listen to, classical, world, indie, I'm liking the HD800 much more. 

Lastly, I'm using a Yggy. I really do not like the sound of the V281 single-ended (I would stick with the BHA1 if I only had single-ended cables). With balanced cables, the V281 provides a soundstage and imaging unlike any other amp I've heard.


----------



## LCMusicLover

WilliamWykeham said:


> ...Unfortunately I'm not liking the HE1000 paired with the V281; there's just for me too warm and dark a sound.  So I've ordered silver headphone cables and am hoping the upper mids improve, and if they don't I may sell the HE1000...
> 
> ...Lastly, I'm using a Yggy....



I’ve got a V280 and Utopia, HEKv2 and Ether Flow. I purchased a silver cable from Lavricables for the HEK, and I really like that combination — brightens the sig up slightly vs stock. At the same time I’ve got an OCC copper cable for my Utopias, which adds a little warmth, or maybe just reduces the brightness.

Ether Flows also have a slightly warm sig, but I don’t find it too warm/dark at all — haven’t felt urge to replace MrSpeakers DUM cable to change the sig.

I wonder if the Yggy isn’t a contributor to the warmth you hear from the V281/HEK combo? I suspect my 9038-based Sonica DAC isn’t the best for my Utopias, but may be helping with the HEKs and Ether Flows.


----------



## WilliamWykeham

LCMusicLover said:


> I wonder if the Yggy isn’t a contributor to the warmth you hear from the V281/HEK combo? I suspect my 9038-based Sonica DAC isn’t the best for my Utopias, but may be helping with the HEKs and Ether Flows.



Could be part of it. Also back when I had the BHA1 connected I was using a cheapo USB cable, probably came with a printer, and after replacing that with an Audioquest Carbon the sound was much smoother and warmer, in a very good way (once was a cable skeptic, no longer). 

I might actually replace the HEK with the Utopia if the Silver Dragon cable doesn't lighten things up enough for me.


----------



## PHC1

Utopia and V281 is a great match. I have the Black Dragon V2 cable and it all balances out nicely.


----------



## LCMusicLover

WilliamWykeham said:


> ...I might actually replace the HEK with the Utopia if the Silver Dragon cable doesn't lighten things up enough for me.



I really like the Utopia — gets more than half my head time. The soundstage isn’t huge (HEK & HE560 both are bigger), but it’s way more precise. Combined with the tremendous detail retrieval, the effect is quite striking.

I do wonder how the Utopias will compare to the HD-800 for you. In the Utopia impressions thread there seems to be a split between ‘so much better’ and ‘not nearly 2.5X better’ opinions. There is universal agreement that the HD-800 has a MUCH bigger stage.


----------



## S Crowther

WilliamWykeham said:


> Some impressions on headphone and amp combos, mostly confirming what others have said -- I recently switched out a Bryston BHA1 for the V281. The BHA1 had excellent synergy with the HE1000, a slightly bright/analytical amp and warm cans. Now I'm connecting the V281 mostly to the HD800, where bright/warm characteristics are reversed compared to the BHA1 and HE1000. I'm loving this combo and the HD800 is like totally different headphone.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm not liking the HE1000 paired with the V281; there's just for me too warm and dark a sound.  So I've ordered silver headphone cables and am hoping the upper mids improve, and if they don't I may sell the HE1000. With the V281 the only genre where I'm finding the HE1000 to best the HD800 is hip hop and maybe R&B. For everything else I listen to, classical, world, indie, I'm liking the HD800 much more.
> 
> Lastly, I'm using a Yggy. I really do not like the sound of the V281 single-ended (I would stick with the BHA1 if I only had single-ended cables). With balanced cables, the V281 provides a soundstage and imaging unlike any other amp I've heard.


For the HE1000 have you tried changing the  V281 gain settings to +5 or +10? You may find that the sound is brighter. I did.


----------



## Arniesb

S Crowther said:


> For the HE1000 have you tried changing the  V281 gain settings to +5 or +10? You may find that the sound is brighter. I did.


Mine is Not 281 but 280 and i have same results. On 0 gain in comparison to -5 i feel more impact, nore dynamism, air and overall slightly more vivid sound.
I know it sound like big difference... Well not as big as it sound, but certainly noticable and make my listening more engaging.


----------



## zhgutov

Some time ago there was a lot of talking about better sound with the lower pre-gain.
Now this goes to the opposite direction 
Try to match the volume level precisely before comparison.


----------



## Arniesb

No matter how much i turned wolume on -5 setting, it never sound as good as 0 db setting.


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## zhgutov (Jan 22, 2018)

Arniesb said:


> No matter how much i turned wolume on -5 setting, it never sound as good as 0 db setting.


Oh, you have V280 instead of V281. It seems like these amps have slightly different implementation of pre-gain.
According to the scheme in manual, the pre-gain section in V280 is placed before the volume control, while the pre-gain section in V281 is placed after.
This might be due to the pre-amp inside V281, which has it's own gain switches, but shares the volume control.
So, it is possible that you can have different effect of the pre-gain in your amp.

In my experience with the V281 when I just switch the pre-gain it seems like I have a difference which is easy to notice.
This is because the standard volume control, which I have, has the "steps", which change the volume by the different value.
So, it is easy to think that the level is nearly the same, but actually it is not. This lead to the perceived difference in sound.
But when I try to match the volume the difference becomes less noticeable when the volume levels are closer.

This is interesting effect when the starting volume, and the sequence affect the result.
You need to start with the same loudness trying the different sequences in comparison.
Otherwise it is easy to fool yourself.


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## Pharmaboy

I wasn't aware the V280 has a different pre-gain implemention than V281 (I have the V281). Also never heard the HE1000 or Utopia.

Comments about gain on the V281:

I have both the headphone & pre-gain adjusted to -12dB. Even so, my system gain (powered monitors + sub) falls below 9AM on the big dial for low level listening & never even gets near 11AM for loud listening.
For efficient, low-impedance headphones, I can't get near 10AM w/o blowing brains/eardrums out. My power-hogging planar (Ori) can get near 12 o'clock on the dial before emergency services get the "bleeding from eardrums" call... 
It seems that I'm in no position to explore different sound at different gain on the V281...it's too powerful even at low gain to allow it.

However, I did play around with gain on 2-3 other amps (Burson Soloist, the bigger pre-amp capable 4W/ch version); Audio GD SA-31SE; M Stage HPA-1. Hardly a scientific experiment, but w/hit-or-miss gain-matching at each gain level, I could not detect qualitative/subjective differences in sound at different gain on any of the 3 amps w/a given headphone.
A couple times I did hear _slightly_ more noise distortion (very efficient headphones)...not sure whether I was hearing the amp, the headphones, or both.

*Net/net: *this "better sound at higher/lower" gain idea is quite appealing ("my amp has a sonic "secret weapon" in the gain switch!"). But my own listening has never borne this out....


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## zhgutov (Jan 22, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> I wasn't aware the V280 has a different pre-gain implemention than V281 (I have the V281).


I am not sure about that. This is just according to the manual.



Pharmaboy said:


> I have both the headphone & pre-gain adjusted to -12dB. Even so, my system gain (powered monitors + sub) falls below 9AM on the big dial for low level listening & never even gets near 11AM for loud listening.


You have the different volume control (stepped relay), which increments equally by 0.75 dB per click.
So, if you don't use the remote control, you can set the volume with the same accuracy with any pre-gain, but probably you need to turn the volume knob with more care in the case of the higher pre-gain.
In my case I need to go between the steps, and I still don't know exactly how much gain I get. But you can count the clicks and multiply by 0.75


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## Pharmaboy

You're correct about the stepped relay, which can be adjusted manually or by remote. However, the "clicks" are pretty subtle--not as easy to hear or feel as w/other stepped pots, such as the one on Lake People G109-A 

Another confounding factor in my case is that the pot on my V281 seems to be malfunctioning (I won't bore you with the various symptoms). The amp sounds amazing, as always--but adjusting volume is an uncertain exercise w/mine. I really need to send it in for service...

Final point: what happens w/higher gain settings on the V281 (at least for me), is there are very few "clicks" to play with, soft-to-loud, for a given headphone. At higher gain settings, I'm forced to listen at ~7:30 on the dial, @Near complete attenuation--w/"loud" is only 3-4 clicks above that.


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## zhgutov (Jan 22, 2018)

I agree, with +12 dB (for example) I need to go to the similar volume pot positions too.
With 15 dBu input level I use -14 dB pre-gain, and this allows me to use LCD3 with the volume pot close to 12 o'clock (11 o'clock in the most cases, higher with the quiet recordings).
With more sensitive headphones (like Shure SRH940) I live between 9 and 11 o'clock with such settings.
What is your DAC output level?


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## Pharmaboy

I use either the Audio GD NOS 19 or DAC-19 (right now it's the DAC-19). Both output 2.5v.

I have another DAC (Peachtree Audio DAC iTx) that outputs 2.1v, which would probably work better w/V281. But that DAC, though very good for the price, isn't in the same league as either of the multi-bit DACs.


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## PHC1

The new Chord Qutest DAC will offer a 1V, 2V, 3V selectable output. With all the pre-gain settings on the V281, that combo should allow for ultimate range of preference on the volume pot. I also suspect the Chord Qutest would pair up very nicely with the V281. I am enjoying my Gungnir Multibit but may be tempted to try the Qutest.


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## Pharmaboy

Re: "The new Chord Qutest DAC will offer a 1V, 2V, 3V selectable output." If we're collectively obsessing about the sound of V281 & other amps at different gain settings, imagine the tsunami of audio navel-gazing the Qutest will unleash!

Seriously, besides my appreciation of multi-bit sound (a total relief to my ears vs any d-s design I've heard), there's another reason I won't be changing DACs any time soon: each of my AGD DACs was modified by addition of a 2nd RCA output pair on back (an upgrade at time of purchase, converting ACSS pair to RCA). This has transformed my desktop system. At any given time:

I always have 1 of the 3 pre-amp capable HP amps in the system as pre-amp + amp
And 1 other HP amp running off the 2nd (sonically equal) DAC output
I can easily compare headphones on 1 or 2 amps; change/rotate amps; listen to powered monitors only, headphones only, or both.

There are other multi-bit DACs that interest me, but lack of a 2nd RCA output (and high purchase price) mean I never get very far w/the idea...


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## PHC1 (Jan 22, 2018)

The multiple DAC outputs is a nice feature indeed. My Gungnir Multibit has 1 XLR and 2 RCA outputs and they are all being used. V281, Audeze Deckard and SPL Phonitor are all hooked up, powered up and ready to go. I also have the built in DAC in the V281 and the Audeze lol. All of them are selectable through Roon, can be zoned together or play separate.

One thing I recently discovered and have not been able to confirm from Violectric yet, is that the V281 seems like it shorts/mutes the inputs when turned OFF! What this does is overloads the DAC outputs and causes distortion in all the outputs. I was not able to figure this out for quite some time, why some of my amps sounded like they were distorting at different times and actually sent a Schiit Lyr 2 back because I thought it was defective! Nope, when I discussed this problem with Schiit tech support, we came to the same conclusion, must be the V281 shorting its inputs when OFF. Go figure... Now I make sure it is on when I listen to any other amp.


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## Pharmaboy

very interesting...didn't know that. I probably haven't discovered this because when the V281 is in my system, it's usually the preamp, not a 2nd HP amp; and it's always on while amp #2 is on.

one of my other amps (Audio GD SA-31SE) was set by 1st owner to short all inputs but #4 while ON. This led to interesting sonic discoveries; when the SA-31SE is my preamp, any 2nd amp must be on for power monitors to sound best at normal volume....also for HP output of SA-31SE to sound best. 

Sometimes I forget and listen to headphones or powered monitors on the SA-31SE while 2nd amp is powered off. Result is always the same:

It starts with "Why is the bass distorting? This sounds like dogsh*t!"
(then I remember--gotta turn on the 2nd amp). Instantly the sound elevates noticeably. "Ahhhh....that's more like it."


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## PHC1

I'll be adding a pair of XLRs to piggyback from V281 to SPL Phonitor since it only has XLR inputs. Then I can use the V281 as a pass through and have 2 amps on the XLR DAC output and have 2 more amps from the DAC RCA outputs.


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## zhgutov

PHC1 said:


> One thing I recently discovered and have not been able to confirm from Violectric yet, is that the V281 seems like it shorts/mutes the inputs when turned OFF! What this does is overloads the DAC outputs and causes distortion in all the outputs.


Just measured impedance of the inputs.
When it turned on XLR inputs have 10 kOhm between pin 2 and 3.
When it turned off it has couple of MOhms between pin 2 and 3 (not sure how much exactly).
RCA inputs always have 47 kOhm.
No short circuit here.


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## Pharmaboy

PHC1 said:


> I'll be adding a pair of XLRs to piggyback from V281 to SPL Phonitor since it only has XLR inputs. Then I can use the V281 as a pass through and have 2 amps on the XLR DAC output and have 2 more amps from the DAC RCA outputs.



My god, that's an epic system...I thought mine was complicated!

BTW, I have used simultaneous RCA outputs + XLR outputs from my V281 w/no detectable sonic consequences.


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## PHC1

zhgutov said:


> Just measured impedance of the inputs.
> When it turned on XLR inputs have 10 kOhm between pin 2 and 3.
> When it turned off it has couple of MOhms between pin 2 and 3 (not sure how much exactly).
> RCA inputs always have 47 kOhm.
> No short circuit here.


Then I don't understand why my other amps would distort when I switch the V281 OFF. That's a mystery...


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## PHC1

Pharmaboy said:


> My god, that's an epic system...I thought mine was complicated!
> 
> BTW, I have used simultaneous RCA outputs + XLR outputs from my V281 w/no detectable sonic consequences.


It is fun!


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## PHC1

I wonder if the remote relay pot 


zhgutov said:


> Just measured impedance of the inputs.
> When it turned on XLR inputs have 10 kOhm between pin 2 and 3.
> When it turned off it has couple of MOhms between pin 2 and 3 (not sure how much exactly).
> RCA inputs always have 47 kOhm.
> No short circuit here.


I wonder if the remote relay acts differently when OFF? I mean something has to be loading my DAC output section when the V281 is OFF.


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## zhgutov

PHC1 said:


> I wonder if the remote relay acts differently when OFF? I mean something has to be loading my DAC output section when the V281 is OFF.


I have the standard volume control, can't check this. Do you have relay?
But anyway, it is hard to believe it works this way.
Maybe it generates something back when it is turned off (just a guess, need to check this).


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## PHC1

zhgutov said:


> I have the standard volume control, can't check this. Do you have relay?
> But anyway, it is hard to believe it works this way.
> Maybe it generates something back when it is turned off (just a guess, need to check this).


Yes I have the remote relay. I’ll pull the amp from the rack and measure inputs out of curiosity.


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## zhgutov (Jan 22, 2018)

PHC1 said:


> I’ll pull the amp from the rack and measure inputs out of curiosity.


Have you tried not just to switch the power off, but also to unplug the power cord from V281 and check your effect again?


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## PHC1

zhgutov said:


> Have you tried not just to switch the power off, but also to unplug the power cord from V281 and check your effect again?


Yep, I just tried it. Listening to the Audeze amp, V281 ON, no problem. V281 OFF, big bass distortion. Pulled the cord from the V281, still distortion. Something about the V281 loading down the DAC while OFF. Strange.


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## zhgutov

PHC1 said:


> Yep, I just tried it. Listening to the Audeze amp, V281 ON, no problem. V281 OFF, big bass distortion. Pulled the cord from the V281, still distortion. Something about the V281 loading down the DAC while OFF. Strange.


This amp has large capacitors, so when it is powered off it probably still can do something.
Does this effect remain after some time?

As I remember, you use the balanced power conditioner.
Have you tried to use regular power source?


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## PHC1

zhgutov said:


> This amp has large capacitors, so when it is powered off it probably still can do something.
> Does this effect remain after some time?
> 
> As I remember, you use the balanced power conditioner.
> Have you tried to use regular power source?


The balanced power conditioner has nothing to do with it. This happens with or without it. At first I could not figure out what was happening with my other amps since sometimes I had the V281 ON, sometimes OFF and of course the other amps only sound distorted when the DAC output section is loaded down by the OFF condition V281. I have not tried to see if this goes away if the V281 has been off for some time. Hmm... Will try that. I'm thinking the V281 shorts the inputs when the power goes OFF for whatever reason. There is no other explanation.


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## zhgutov (Jan 22, 2018)

PHC1 said:


> The balanced power conditioner has nothing to do with it. This happens with or without it. At first I could not figure out what was happening with my other amps since sometimes I had the V281 ON, sometimes OFF and of course the other amps only sound distorted when the DAC output section is loaded down by the OFF condition V281. I have not tried to see if this goes away if the V281 has been off for some time. Hmm... Will try that. I'm thinking the V281 shorts the inputs when the power goes OFF for whatever reason. There is no other explanation.


In the case of the overload you will probably hear everything distorted, but you are talking about the distorted bass only.
My guess is this may probably point to the strong 50 or 60 Hz hum (maybe with the harmonics) from the inputs.
Hmm... I am still thinking how to make a good experiment to confirm if this is true.
My DAC has separately driven outputs, so I cannot see the effect here.
And my experiment with the ADC may be incorrect too (it is weird in terms of grounding, cannot trust it).


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## PHC1

zhgutov said:


> In the case of the overload you will probably hear everything distorted, but you are talking about the distorted bass only.
> My guess is this may probably point to the 50 or 60 Hz hum (maybe with the harmonics) from the inputs.
> Hmm... I am still thinking how to make a good experiment to confirm if this is true.


Bass and the mids are distorted. Of course the deep bass draws the most current from the overloaded DAC output section which distorts the bass and the mids. I doubt it has anything to do with hum at all since the v281 is not affected and neither are the other amps when the V281 is ON. Turning the other amps OFF, does not affect the V281 itself.


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## PHC1 (Jan 22, 2018)

Another experiment. Audeze amp playing. Set the Audeze DAC and Gungnir DAC to play the same track through Roon. Simply flipping the source switch on the Audeze  lets me hear the Gungnir and the Audeze DAC. Switched the V281 OFF and of course the same problem. Switch to Audeze DAC problem gone and everything is clean. It is obvious there is nothing else going on but the V281 loading the Gungnir output section when the V281 goes OFF.


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## zhgutov (Jan 22, 2018)

In the case of overloads everything will be distorted, because the whole spectrum will be on the bass peaks (tops of the wave).
But if it just sums with the strong hum, it will distort the signal partially, which looks more like your case.
Your experiment still shows the possibility of both problems.
Do you have simple multimeter to confirm or exclude your guess about the shorten inputs?


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## PHC1

Yes, I will check with an ohm meter. I need to pull the amp out and measure.


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## zhgutov

Oh, you told about the rack.
Do you have the rack stand in which V281 may be placed?
Or was this just about the units connected to each other?


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## zhgutov (Jan 22, 2018)

This is the spectrum of the noise normalized to 0 dBFS (click to enlarge):




It is captured from the RCA inputs of the *V281 turned off* using Zoom H2N running from the battery.
The hum is not so high, but it is here. The noise floor belongs to the Zoom H2N.

Don't know how much the relatively small hum from the inputs when the amp is turned off can affect another outputs of your DAC.
Don't know how much different the hum can be for the balanced inputs.
Don't know how much different this hum can be in the different environment.
Don't know if the ground-lift switches may affect this.


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## PHC1

zhgutov said:


> This is the spectrum of the noise normalized to 0 dBFS (click to enlarge):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great info. I still think it is a matter of the inputs being shorted (by design or less likely a problem with my unit?) I will get the amp out of my rack and measure the RCA inputs tomorrow when I have more time to look at it. It's not a big problem, I just leave the V281 ON when I listen to any other amp.


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## Pharmaboy

I certainly know less about electronics than you guys--but I agree it has to be shorted inputs on V281 (or something equivalent in electrical/interactive  effect).

I hear exactly the same distortion @PHC1 describes, though not with my V281. I get it w/my Audio GD SA-31SE used as preamp/amp, so long as a second amp is connect and not turned on. When I hear that distortion through headphones (iparticularly evident in bass/lower midrange), then turn on the 2nd amp--distortion gone!

(there certainly are parallels here)

I'll have to recreate the V281 distortion by doing something I've never done--turn off the V281 while listening to the other amp.


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## PHC1

This could be a clue. http://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/raqs/raq-issue-39.html


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## Pinkfloyd0

Hello,

I a new owner of V281. I came from a V200 and am now using V281 with V800 dac and NAD M50 streamer/cd. My cans are: Senn. HD 800 / Audeze LCD 2 fazor & AKG K712.

I am now reading this thread for the second time and I was wondering if somebody has had the same experience like Jark and me? His question back in 2015 was;

"First, is it me, or the V281 needs quite some time, lets say 30/45 min to perform at it best? From cold, the bass is not as detailed and controlled as when the amp has warmed up a bit. And the overall sound is Ok but not as spectacular, or is just me adapting to the sound?"

I have the same experience, but only with the balanced output! And I have the feeling that it's taking even more time to warm up, like 90 minutes. I did not have this with the (SE) output of the V200 (not with SE output of V281 also!).

I am curious if somebody else has had the same experience or if it's me being crazy or getting used to the new sound out of balanced output?

Thanks!


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## zhgutov

@Pinkfloyd0, I have seen recommendation (cannot find it now), where someone (probably Fried Reim) tells about ~30 minutes of the warm up time for the amp and the DAC.
In my experience, it seems like the sound may be _slightly_ different after the warm up, but I am not 100% sure about that at all.


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## Fegefeuer

That's pretty normal. Amps, DACs and converters need half an hour up to many many hours more to reach thermal equilibrium. Multibit DACs are the worst of all. 
My DU-U8 for instance has been measured to reach its peak after 90 mins. I just keep it always on since all my music runs through it.

V281 starts to sound best after an hour or so, it's why I turn it on immediately when I am at home after work even if I end up doing something else. Can't waste precious Feierabend hours.


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## Pinkfloyd0

zhgutov said:


> @Pinkfloyd0, I have seen recommendation (cannot find it now), where someone (probably Fried Reim) tells about ~30 minutes of the warm up time for the amp and the DAC.
> In my experience, it seems like the sound may be _slightly_ different after the warm up, but I am not 100% sure about that at all.



@zhgutov; Do you still use v800 with max. output voltage +24? And v281 with pre gain set to -12? If so, can you tell what do you gain in quality of the sound? If not, which settings are you currently using and why?

Thanks!


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## zhgutov (Jan 23, 2018)

Pinkfloyd0 said:


> @zhgutov; Do you still use v800 with max. output voltage +24? And v281 with pre gain set to -12? If so, can you tell what do you gain in quality of the sound? If not, which settings are you currently using and why?


I used 24 dBu until I found what at this level V281 can distort the signal when the input level exceeds ~23 dBu.
This is because the maximum input level of the V281 is 21 dBu (according to specification) for all inputs.
I was thinking this is because of the intersample peaks, because it was noticeable primarily with the music mastered close to 0 dBFS (I was wrong).
And I decreased the volume slightly in digital. But finally I measured the signal from the line out of V281 and found it distorted at 23+ dBu.
That's why I decreased the output level to 15 dBu. I also tried 18 dBu. With the accurate volume matching it sounds very close.
Some time ago I was thinking this pre-gain changes may lead to better sound (and I am sure they can with some equipment).
But finally I found that I used incorrect method to pick the best settings.
There may be some subtle difference between the settings, but it is hard to pick the best if the comparison is made accurately.

But I still use V281 @ -14 dB pre-gain, because it allows me to change the volume smoothly (provides optimal range for my headphones/usecases).

For the last few years with the LP/Vio gear I made tons of experiments, which lead me to thinking this gear is pretty linear.


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## musicmaker

I pulled the trigger on a V281 with relay remote in black with gold feet. So excited !

Arthur is the one of the very best in the business. Very knowledgable and so customer oriented. My first experience with Violectric has been fantastic.


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## PHC1

musicmaker said:


> I pulled the trigger on a V281 with relay remote in black with gold feet. So excited !
> 
> Arthur is the one of the very best in the business. Very knowledgable and so customer oriented. My first experience with Violectric has been fantastic.


Congrats, you will love it


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## Pharmaboy

musicmaker said:


> I pulled the trigger on a V281 with relay remote in black with gold feet. So excited !
> 
> Arthur is the one of the very best in the business. Very knowledgable and so customer oriented. My first experience with Violectric has been fantastic.



Hard to predict sonic tastes, but odds are good this amp will rock your world. It's said to "play nice" w/even the most efficient IEMs...and I know from experience that it's crazy/good w/headphones--the more horsepower a given pair of headphones has in terms of design & sonics, the higher the V281 can drive it. This is pretty much top of the heap in SS...


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## WilliamWykeham (Jan 27, 2018)

I took some notes comparing the HE1000 and HD800 through the Violectric on 0 gain. HD800 came out on top on nearly every recording except for Fleetwood Mac and Mozart. My gear is a Yggy connected to a Mac with an Audioquest Carbon, and using a Niagara 1000 power conditioner. Silver Dragon balanced cable with the HE1000 and Venus balanced cable with the HD800.

It's possible that the greater emphasis on treble with the HD800 makes it sound better on A/B testing, and that you really have to settle into the HE1000s. Nevertheless over extended listening sessions I'm still preferring the HD800. The HE1000 had a lot of synergy with my prior amp, the BHA1, which was brighter than that V281 (I didn't like the HD800 through that setup). Now have to decide whether to keep the HE1000 or get a brighter amp light the GS-X. Or trade up for Focal Utopias (anybody interested in trading HE1000 with Silver Dragon cables for Focal Utopia let me know).

Fleetwood Mac, Tusk - HE1000, although the HD 800 is not far behind. Nice round, balanced sound with the HE1000. HD800 might actually be slightly bright on this one.
REM, Murmur - HD800. Tons of bass, excellent balanced sound. Not a hint of brightness on this. HE1000s are just a sludge of force and bass. Strongly prefer HD800 on this.
M83, Junk  - HD800. Everything nicely balanced. HD1000 was too dark and bassy.
Fiery Furnaces, EP - HD800 (barely). Interestingly there was an odd high frequency boost on the vocals that was slightly annoying with the HE1000, but not with the HD800.
Modest Mouse, The Lonesome Crowded West - tie. On Teeth Like God’s Shoeshine, HD1000 - guitars sound awesome. Not too dark. HD800 sounds a little thin, guitars sound not as great as the HE1000. On Trailer Trash the HD800 won out.
WHY?, Ooh Lhean - HD800. This headphone has a ton of punch and low end with the V281 while maintaining excellent high frequencies. HE1000 is too dark.
Frank Ocean, channel ORANGE and Blonde - HD800. Clear winner. Everything sounds excellently balanced.
Kelela, Take Me Apart - HD800.
D’Angelo, Black Messiah - HD800. Not surprising. This is already a dark bassy recording. HE1000 isn’t too far behind.
The Beatles, Help! - HD800.
Ryhe - HD800 (barely).
Run the Jewels 3 - HD800. People who complain about a lack of bass with HD800 need to hear it through the V281 Tons of bass. HD1000 was actually too bass heavy on this.

Isabelle Faust, Bach: Sonatas & Partitas - HD800 (barely). Deciding on a winner with solo classical pieces is tougher, but I give the edge to HD800.
Teodor Currentzis, Mozart: Don Giovanni - HE1000. One of the few classical works that sounds better with the HE1000. All the instruments sound more fleshed out, 3D. Balance is excellent. Not sure why the HE1000 excels here but this could be a highly engineered album which just happens to by symbiotic. The HD800s sounded a little thin and brittle.
Concerto Italiano - Bach: Brandenburg Concertos - HD800. Clear winner. HD1000 was not pleasant at all. Instruments poorly separated. Wider soundstage of the HD800 helps a lot with this one.
Musica Antiqua Köln, Bach: Brandenburg Concertos - HD800. HE1000 wasn’t far behind on this, but I still thought it was too dark and bass heavy. HE1000 really excels with brass, whereas the HD800 is better with strings.
Tokyo String Quartet, Brahms String Quartet Nos. 1-3 - HE800. Clear winner. Again HE1000 is too dark and bass heavy.
Herreweghe, Mahler: Symphony No. 4 - HD800. This recording is highly symbiotic with the HD800. Everything sounds right. HD1000 just doesn’t cut it.
Benvenue Fortepiano, Schumann: Piano Trio No.2 - HD800. Clear winner.
La Petite Bande, Bach: Matthaus-Passion - HD800. Clear winner


----------



## S Crowther

WilliamWykeham said:


> I took some notes comparing the HE1000 and HD800 through the Violectric on 0 gain. HD800 came out on top on nearly every recording except for Fleetwood Mac and Mozart. My gear is a Yggy connected to a Mac with an Audioquest Carbon, and using a Niagara 1000 power conditioner. Silver Dragon balanced cable with the HE1000 and Venus balanced cable with the HD800.
> 
> It's possible that the greater emphasis on treble with the HD800 makes it sound better on A/B testing, and that you really have to settle into the HE1000s. Nevertheless over extended listening sessions I'm still preferring the HD800. The HE1000 had a lot of synergy with my prior amp, the BHA1, which was brighter than that V281 (I didn't like the HD800 through that setup). Now have to decide whether to keep the HE1000 or get a brighter amp light the GS-X. Or trade up for Focal Utopias (anybody interested in trading HE1000 with Silver Dragon cables for Focal Utopia let me know).
> 
> ...


I have the HE1000 and also HD800S playing out of the V281. They are fed from AK1000 via Chord TT.
I find that the HE1000 sound a lot better/brighter with the gain dip switches set to +5 or even +10. The HD800S is fine at neutral.
With these settings I prefer the HE1000 for say the Goebbels Brandenburgs, which I also have.


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## ajreynol

Well I went with this amp and I'm glad I did. It was a small nightmare getting it over from Germany (quite a bit of BS), but Arthur over at Violectric NA was good about it. 

While waiting to receive this amp, I picked up a iCan Pro to eventually A/B test against the Violectric. Yea, the iCan really wasn't much of a competitor. Nice device, but with a lot of features that really felt like after-thoughts or otherwise throw-away in their usefulness. I ended up packing it up the same day after A/B'ing them for a couple of hours. 

Good to be here, folks. Someone pass me a wine flute.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ajreynol said:


> Well I went with this amp and I'm glad I did. It was a small nightmare getting it over from Germany (quite a bit of BS), but Arthur over at Violectric NA was good about it.
> 
> While waiting to receive this amp, I picked up a iCan Pro to eventually A/B test against the Violectric. Yea, the iCan really wasn't much of a competitor. Nice device, but with a lot of features that really felt like after-thoughts or otherwise throw-away in their usefulness. I ended up packing it up the same day after A/B'ing them for a couple of hours.
> 
> Good to be here, folks. Someone pass me a wine flute.



I own the V281 (a fine amp/preamp)--and a friend has a Pro iCan. Hope to compare them someday. 

He's heard my V281 at length on multiple occasions (usually via his Eikon), also put in lots of time on the Pro iCan...says it's not really a contest (V281 is better in almost every way), but still, the Pro iCan has very good power, above average sound, and interesting/unique features--especially the switchable tube mode & bass boost (each works very well on certain headphones/not as well on others).


----------



## ajreynol

Pharmaboy said:


> I own the V281 (a fine amp/preamp)--and a friend has a Pro iCan. Hope to compare them someday.
> 
> He's heard my V281 at length on multiple occasions (usually via his Eikon), also put in lots of time on the Pro iCan...says it's not really a contest (V281 is better in almost every way), but still, the Pro iCan has very good power, above average sound, and interesting/unique features--especially the switchable tube mode & bass boost (each works very well on certain headphones/not as well on others).


Yea. The problem was most of those features aren't very useful.

The Bass boost after maybe the first setting makes bass turn into mud for 90% of the songs I tried. The 3D knob did something but nothing I'd call "useful" or otherwise want to pay money for over other things. SS and Tube options were fine but didn't really stand out. Power was sufficient to be sure, however. 

All I can really say is that you aren't missing anything. I picked up the iCan with the hope that maybe I could send the V281 back (it was unacceptably late to ship). I very quickly realized that wasn't how things were going to go.


----------



## emptymt

ajreynol said:


> Yea. The problem was most of those features aren't very useful.
> 
> The Bass boost after maybe the first setting makes bass turn into mud for 90% of the songs I tried. The 3D knob did something but nothing I'd call "useful" or otherwise want to pay money for over other things. SS and Tube options were fine but didn't really stand out. Power was sufficient to be sure, however.
> 
> All I can really say is that you aren't missing anything. I picked up the iCan with the hope that maybe I could send the V281 back (it was unacceptably late to ship). I very quickly realized that wasn't how things were going to go.



pretty much my impression the last time I audition these, went out the shop with v281 and not regretting it.


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## chungjun (Jan 30, 2018)

For my V281, I have the USB XMOS DAC / interface. A good piece of DAC and I have no complains but am wondering...

For DAC, what would one consider an "upgrade" or good pairing for the V281?
For someone who prefers fuss free listening source (e.g. streaming / offline download on Spotify / Tidal - setting on best available file quality), how much improvement can one expect to hear say from the scale of 1 to 10 (10 being "Wow! This is truly night and day!)?

Based on memory, the last I switch from iDSD (BL) to the V281 USB XMOS DAC, I don't recall being able to tell much difference if at all.


----------



## PHC1

chungjun said:


> For my V281, I have the USB XMOS DAC / interface. A good piece of DAC and I have no complains but am wondering...
> 
> For DAC, what would one consider an "upgrade" or good pairing for the V281?
> For someone who prefers fuss free listening source (e.g. streaming / offline download on Spotify / Tidal - setting on best available file quality), how much improvement can one expect to hear say from the scale of 1 to 10 (10 being "Wow! This is truly night and day!)?
> ...


I have a Schiit Gungnir Multibit to compare to the XMOS DAC module. The Gungnir does sound different, most would say better but I do find the XMOS DAC very musical if slightly laid back in presentation. Depends on your taste and it is definitely not a huge difference. When I listen to the Utopia, I can appreciate the difference more so than my other headphones. One thing that really awakes the XMOS DAC module is using a USB reclocker/buffer such as Wyred4Sound recovery module, iFi or similar. Then the difference is really marginal and comes down to the fundamental difference of R/2R vs Delta-Sigma topology of these two DACs. One thing for sure, the XMOS DAC module is a great bang for the buck.


----------



## chungjun

PHC1 said:


> The Gungnir does sound different, most would say better



Thanks for sharing. Can't say I have experience with R2R topology DACs. If we have to quantify your impression on Gumby, how much difference would you rate from a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being "Wow! This is truly night and day!)?

Thought I sit down and do another quick listen on the V281 with HD800S, switching between V281 USB XMOS DAC and iDSD(BL).

Switching via V281 front panel button (i.e. RCA for iDSD(BL) or DIG for USB XMOS DAC). Volume pot unchanged. Listening on Spotify (best available quality setting) with EQualify installed (to 'route' / 'select' preferred audio device) on PC.

The iDSD(BL) (via RCA out and on "Direct" mode) have an added component of iFi iUSB3.0 in between (i.e. PC > *iUSB3.0* > iDSD(BL) > V281 > HD800S) whereas the V281 / USB XMOS DAC is on its own (i.e. PC > V281 USB XMOS > HD800S).

I can't say I can hear much difference, if at all. I was expecting the iDSD(BL) setup with an 'advantage' or additional component of iUSB3.0 in its chain might yield a more discernible difference (i.e. I wasn't listening for 'better' or 'worse' sound, just anything different that is worthy of a note and I can't say I've spotted anything distinctive).


----------



## PHC1

chungjun said:


> Thanks for sharing. Can't say I have experience with R2R topology DACs. If we have to quantify your impression on Gumby, how much difference would you rate from a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being "Wow! This is truly night and day!)?
> 
> Thought I sit down and do another quick listen on the V281 with HD800S, switching between V281 USB XMOS DAC and iDSD(BL).
> 
> ...


It would be hard to quantify on a scale from 1-10 as it really depends on the recording quality. With high resolution, well recorder material, Gumby stands out with resolution and dynamics that I would say are a 4-5 on a scale from 1-10 over XMOS DAC module. If the recording is dynamic range compressed or loudness mastered, I prefer the XMOS DAC module because it is a bit more forgiving and laid back where the extra resolution and dynamics are working against the enjoyment of that particular recording. What I would suggest is that you try the iFi iUSB3.0 on the XMOS!
That will really wake things up and then the added expense of Gumby over the XMOS becomes questionable when the recording quality is good. I use Roon by the way and Tidal HiFi for best results.


----------



## WilliamWykeham

S Crowther said:


> I have the HE1000 and also HD800S playing out of the V281. They are fed from AK1000 via Chord TT.
> I find that the HE1000 sound a lot better/brighter with the gain dip switches set to +5 or even +10. The HD800S is fine at neutral.
> With these settings I prefer the HE1000 for say the Goebbels Brandenburgs, which I also have.



I tried the both of the higher gain settings with the V281 and HE1000. Agree I got a brighter sound.  For me personally though the HD800 is still winning out in overall presentation, when comparing the higher gain settings for the HE1000 to 0 gain with the HD800.  I plugged the BH1 back up and am rediscovering how excellent the HE1000 is with that, so much so I'm keeping the BHA1. For me that amp has huge synergy with the HE1000.


----------



## zhgutov

WilliamWykeham said:


> I tried the both of the higher gain settings with the V281 and HE1000. Agree I got a brighter sound.


Just checked two extreme settings: -14 dB and +12 dB. It seems like they sound the same.
The only thing which is different is the noise, which may be heard with more sensitive headphones (Shure SRH940 for example) @ +12 dB.
The difference in your case may be caused by some kind of overloading/clipping due to high input level with the higher gain, or by the loudness mismatch.
I used 15 dBu inputs for -14 dB pre-gain, and lowered the input level for +12 dB pre-gain to achieve the same loudness. In this case I can not find any difference in sound.
Moreover, there should be no headphone-dependent difference, because the pre-gain affects the input signal of the power amp section.


----------



## Badas (Feb 3, 2018)

Hey guys.

Those switches inside the V281. Do they just effect the pre-amp operation? The outputs?

I use the V281 as a pre-amp to my tube amp and I needed more volume. Tube amp and V281 was near full volume.
I had the inside switches to maximum lowest setting. Switched them to normal again and the pre-amp side is working a lot
better. Two thirds volume on tube amp and only half volume on V281. Excellent stuff.

Now however I'm curious how those switches the HP output of the V281. Does it effect?

Sorry about the terminology I use. I'm not actually the most technically minded.
Lol. I still don't know what sensitivity or impedance is. I just like using stuff and I know if I like the sound.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Badas said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> Those switches inside the V281. Do they just effect the pre-amp operation? The outputs?
> 
> ...



The 2 banks of switches (1 bank/channel) on the back of the V281 are strictly dedicated to headphone gain. Settings on these switches shouldn't affect the gain of the V281 when used as a preamp.

However, if you open the case, you'll find 2 more gain banks (1 bank/channel) decicated to adjusting the line-out gain. 

This highly flexible arrangement lets the user (for example) have high gain for headphones (if only low efficiency headphones are used), while simultaneously having lower gain for downstream amp/speakers...or any other combination of headphone-gain & line-out-gain the user needs.

In my case, unity gain setting produced way too much gain both for my powered monitors & most headphones. I now have each pair of switch banks (internal & external) set to -12 dB, which happens to work best for each application. However, in the next week I'll be replacing my powered monitors with a big amp + passive speakers. When I do, I may find more gain is required--it's all about the input sensitivity of this amp, and the only way to find out is to hook it all up and go.

I have 3 headphone amps that double as preamps. But the V281 is the only one that allows separate gain settings for headphones & line-out.


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## Badas (Feb 4, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> The 2 banks of switches (1 bank/channel) on the back of the V281 are strictly dedicated to headphone gain. Settings on these switches shouldn't affect the gain of the V281 when used as a preamp.
> 
> However, if you open the case, you'll find 2 more gain banks (1 bank/channel) decicated to adjusting the line-out gain.
> 
> ...



Excellent. Exactly what I thought.

Yes. I was playing with the internal switches.

So now I have the internal switches set to normal to give me volume on the pre-amp.

External on maximum DB decrease to control the HP volume.

The best of both worlds. Clever flexible design.


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## PHC1 (Feb 6, 2018)

If anyone is interested in like new, loaded V281 with remote volume relay and XMOS DAC module, PM me. My work schedule is busy and I am spending most of my free time listening to my speaker system and the headphones are not seeing much play time. Black/Black feet with remote. Like new.


----------



## project86

Anyone attending CanJam NYC next weekend? Fried Reim will be there, along with Arthur from Violectric USA. I imagine they will have a full line of headphones to support the Violectric gear, so stop by and have a listen if you'll be at the show.


----------



## zhgutov

It will be interesting if they launch something new there.


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## PHC1 (Feb 11, 2018)

I have my V281 listed for sale but in the interim of also selling my main "speaker" system DAC, I am using the V281 with the built in XMOS DAC to drive my PrimaLuna Dialogue HP EL34 tube amp and Harbeth speakers. Really musical and great sounding DAC module in the V281. Makes me wonder why I want to sell it and not keep using it as my main system DAC! LOL


----------



## project86

zhgutov said:


> It will be interesting if they launch something new there.



Not that I know of. Fried could surprise us all, but I doubt it. V281 isn't that old, and the V280 launched even more recently.


----------



## Fegefeuer

HA!


Oh btw, updating this thread tomorrow. If you have beautifully shot pictures of your V281 then send them to me please via PN. Want to freshen up the starting page a bit along with user impressions that I promised a good time ago.


----------



## musicmaker

My V281 is scheduled to arrive today. I plan to do some product shots over the next week along with the new dac (Holo Spring L3 Kitsune) that is also arriving today. It feels like Christmas !


----------



## project86

Sounds like a lot of fun!


----------



## Pinkfloyd0

zhgutov said:


> I used 24 dBu until I found what at this level V281 can distort the signal when the input level exceeds ~23 dBu.
> This is because the maximum input level of the V281 is 21 dBu (according to specification) for all inputs.
> I was thinking this is because of the intersample peaks, because it was noticeable primarily with the music mastered close to 0 dBFS (I was wrong).
> And I decreased the volume slightly in digital. But finally I measured the signal from the line out of V281 and found it distorted at 23+ dBu.
> ...


@zhgutov ; can you tell me what position you have chosen for the inside jumpers for both v281 & v800 (general ground / lift jumper & xlr)? Can you also explain why you chose for these settings? I remember from v200 it made a huge difference changing the ac to dc jumper (dc) and also general jumper (ground) with my HD 800. It made a huge difference, but I always had the idee, this was mostly because of switching to dc! (V281 doesn't have the possibillity to switch to dc!) I am very much interested in your and other peoples findings! Thanks!!!


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## zhgutov (Feb 12, 2018)

Pinkfloyd0 said:


> @zhgutov ; can you tell me what position you have chosen for the inside jumpers for both v281 & v800 (general ground / lift jumper & xlr)? Can you also explain why you chose for these settings? I remember from v200 it made a huge difference changing the ac to dc jumper (dc) and also general jumper (ground) with my HD 800. It made a huge difference, but I always had the idee, this was mostly because of switching to dc! (V281 doesn't have the possibillity to switch to dc!) I am very much interested in your and other peoples findings! Thanks!!!


Well, this is probably not so easy to choose the right settings.

Quote from manual:
_Unfortunately there is no general recommendation how to solve hum and jitter problems - or even minimize them. The best way to succeed is to check different options !! _

Some time ago I made some measurements which showed me that when I set everything to LIFT (including XLR connectors) I can minimize the hum from the headphone outputs.
I cannot hear anything similar to this measurements when I check this with the headphones. The noise seems to be "white".
But it was there on the measurements with my E-MU 0404 USB (probably because this is active equipment unlike the headphones).
But I leaved everything in that position. Another point to use LIFT positions is to avoid the ground loops which may be caused by different ground potentials if I use bad power source (or use some strange equipment).
So, there is more possibility to succeed with no changes if I will temporarily move this equipment to another place.

I think the effect of AC/DC switch depends on the headphones you use. If your headphones have more distortion in the low end it is probably better not to switch to DC.
V281 does not have such switch, but it has relay volume control with the similar filter (for headphone outputs only), which should not harm the low end, but probably can improve this range minimising the distortion.
I think it is hard to be affected by this with Audeze (for example), which have very low distortion in this area. But this may affect (and improve) things when you use most of the dynamic headphones.


----------



## zhgutov (Feb 13, 2018)

@Pinkfloyd0,

There is another thing about GND-LIFT switches. Some people told here (it was long time ago), that when they switched to LIFT they had more "harsh" or more "hot" sound.
I think this may be caused by improper connection with the XLR. The manual tells that XLR cables should not have connection between the case and the pin 1.
Unfortunately, some cables are made with such connection (even relatively expensive). I had such cable and it showed the similar effect.
If I understand this correctly (I am not an electrical engineer), this forces the connection of the internal ground to the case.
Probably in a wrong place, ignoring the ground-lift settings. This is especially important if you use LIFT position for XLR.
I don't have any audible difference with the proper cables (but probably the difference may appear in the different environment).

The following is not related to the V800-V281, but anyway. When I switch XLR inside V800 to LIFT it works fine with V281.
But when I connect it to E-MU 0404 USB it shows the strong hum. This should illustrate the sentence from the manual about the general recommendations.

And... AES/EBU does not have GND-LIFT switch at all, probably because it is transformer balanced.
I expect somebody to correct my sentence if I am wrong.


----------



## zhgutov

Finally, I think it would be great if Fried Reim can tell something about that.
And then @Fegefeuer can add this to the first page, like he already did with the pre-gain/volume control adjustments.
Because such questions appear here from time to time, and I can actually have much less knowledge and experience in that area.


----------



## fixated

All this talk about switches inside the V281 and V800 (or V850 in my case) makes me want to re-read that portion of the manual and give it a try myself. Although I've been holding off opening anything as I don't want to accidentally break anything. Might give it some thought first


----------



## zhgutov

fixated said:


> All this talk about switches inside the V281 and V800 (or V850 in my case) makes me want to re-read that portion of the manual and give it a try myself. Although I've been holding off opening anything as I don't want to accidentally break anything. Might give it some thought first


I think it should work fine with the default settings in the most cases (general switch is set to LIFT, XLR switches are set to GND).
Especially if you connect everything with the proper cables. Otherwise, why Violectric use this settings by default.
I started such experiments only because I noticed hum in the measurements (thank you, innerfidelity).
I think it is better to check your cables first with the Ohm meter if you think something is going wrong.


----------



## zhgutov

fixated said:


> or V850 in my case


What do you think about V850 after RS 06 and Chord?


----------



## Pinkfloyd0

Thanks Zhugov, 
 I Just finished changing all the jumpers inside v281 & v800 to the lift position. For other readers, it's all very simple except for the xlr jumpers inside of v281! There are two of them (left & right) for headphone use. One was relatively easy to reach, but for the other one I needed to remove the main pcb board and still the jumper was difficult to reach! (you are going to need small pliers for this in order to lift and move the jumper to the other position). 

I Will try these settings for a couple of weeks and see if I hear a difference. 

Indeed it would be nice if Fried Reim could tell us a little bit about these jumper settings also in relation to possible sound quality improvement!

Zhugov, thanks again for taking your time to give your insight on these jumper settings!


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## zhgutov (Feb 13, 2018)

Pinkfloyd0 said:


> remove the main pcb board


Main PCB board??? O_o
You are talking about line out PCB, I hope?
Actually, I changed the position of this jumper just with the tweezers (but it's a bit tricky).
They are not for the headphone use. They are for the inputs.
There are no such jumpers for the headphone outputs.
And there is no need for them at all.


----------



## Pinkfloyd0 (Feb 13, 2018)

zhgutov said:


> Main PCB board??? O_o
> You are talking about line out PCB, I hope?
> Actually, I changed the position of this jumper just with the tweezers (but it's a bit tricky).
> They are not for the headphone use. They are for the inputs.
> ...





zhgutov said:


> Main PCB board??? O_o
> You are talking about line out PCB, I hope?
> Actually, I changed the position of this jumper just with the tweezers (but it's a bit tricky).
> They are not for the headphone use. They are for the inputs.
> ...



@Zhugov
_"You are talking about line out PCB, I hope?" _
No, I did it with removing the main pcb board (so to other people reading this, don't do like me! Because this was a bit difficult and can be done easier apparently!)
_"They are not for the headphone use. They are for the inputs." _
You are right! I talk about these also and not the other xlr jumpers for line output to go to active speakers or amp.

I Just read in the manual that I removed the 2nd amplifier board instead of the main pcb board! This gave more room to handle my small pliers in order to change xlr jumper settings. Again, don't do like I did, because apparently this can be done simpler by removing line out pcb.


----------



## WilliamWykeham

I've got a one month old base model V281 available on Audiogon for $1,750


----------



## WilliamWykeham

project86 said:


> Not that I know of. Fried could surprise us all, but I doubt it. V281 isn't that old, and the V280 launched even more recently.



Agree but you never know


----------



## fdg

About ground-lift and other jumpers.

Decades ago we developed our system of ground-lift jumpers.
This was based on our experiences with broadcasters and other large scale installations,
some of them more, some less professional.
If every item from all manufactures was made with a metal case and equipped with a 3-pin mains cord,
all these efforts would not be necessary. But real life is not that perfect.

Let´s begin with some words about the electrical power.
Standard AC voltage all around the world is about 115 V or (more reasonable) around 230 V.
Both these voltages are dangerous for your health if touched.

The wall outlet shows two or three connectors.
1. The dangerous one is called L = Life, the color of the associated wire is black or brown
2. The other one is called N = Neutral, the wire color is blue or white.
Those both are in charge when there is some apparatus with a 2-pin plug like small (plastic) appliances or wall plug adaptors. 
Please note that with such 2-pin plugs the case of an apparatus may be unsafe when a high voltage is connected
accidentally to the case and you touch it or another item which is connected to it.
3. To make an item with a metal case absolutely safe for the user there is a third wire
called E = protective earth with the color yellow/green or only green.

In some countries the relationship between these 3 contacts is mechanically fixed so that a mains plug can only be inserted in one way.
But there are also AC outlets where the mains plug may be inserted reversed and so the relationship between N and L is also reversed.

The best way for trouble-free operation is to use exclusively items with a metal case and 3-wire mains cords.
These should be operated from one mains outlet. They should have balanced inputs and outputs and shall be interconnected with balanced cables.
As soon as there are one or more unbalanced items in the chain with unbalanced (RCA) connectors and unbalanced cables a complex system
of different earth/ground levels is formed which results in currents flowing around to compensate the different ground levels.
These currents always have the frequency of you mains voltage (50 or 60 Hz) and multiples of it.
When they are high enough you can hear them as hum or buzz, long before you can measure them !

An electronic item is not powered directly from the AC mains voltage but there is something in between to generate one or more lower DC voltages.
This may be a combination of a transformer/rectifier/capacitor/voltage regulator or a switch mode supply. The latter sounds simple but may not only generate hum or buzz but additional high frequencies.  


Also the internal voltage generation will form an internal reference  = ground  which has not necessarily something to do with the external protective earth = yellow/green wire.

Concerning professional gear with balanced ins and outs the internal ground reference is connected most time to protective earth !
But this will lead to ground loops, hum and buzz in 90 % of all cases when “consumer” gear with unbalanced ins and outs is part of the system.

So it can be helpful to modify the protective earth / ground / case relationship in order to minimize hum and buzz.

Most Lake People and Violectric gear offer more than one option.
The most effective one is the “general – ground – lift” which cuts the interconnection between the case (protective earth) and the ground potential which was formed by the internal operating voltages.
This jumper is set to “lift” position ex works as this turned out to be the best option.
If you are facing hum or you think that something may perform better, this is the key.

The jumpers associated to the XLR connectors should be left in their default position and only be moved in really hard cases of hum and buzz.
It may be that it sounds even better after some modification but this is never due to our gear (namely a headphone amp) but maybe due to the interaction with the source.

Again:
The best way to trouble free operation is:
- one mains outlet for all items in the signal chain because the effect of earth level differences is minimized
- 3-wire mains cords with proper phase indication
- metal cases for all items in the signal chain what minimizes the chances of getting hum and buzz from the outside
- balanced ins and outs and balanced interconnection

Cheers, Fried


----------



## Ragnar-BY

@fdg 

Fried, can you tell about the amp section in V281, please? Is it the same, comparing to V200? I mean it just have 4 V200 amps inside, or it have improved and/or tweaked design? In different reviews I saw different opinions. Innerfidelity, for example, called it "upgraded V200 circuit". Official site does not state clearly if it is the same, or was upgraded.

Thank you.


----------



## fdg

For our opinion we developed with the amp design of V200 something hard to beat and hard to improve further.
This is what we call the V200 class.
The start is V200 with two amp sections for stereo operation.
If you like to have some bells and whistles you may chose V220.
All friends of balanced amps will go for V280 which offers 4 amps for stereo push-pull action.
A V280 with some bells and whistles amp is our current flagship amp V281. 
All the above amps share a nearly identical amp circuitry which is handmade in Germany with standard high quality thru-hole components. 
The future of Violectric will feature exclusively this kind of amp.
The earlier models V90, V100 and V181 are discontinued.

One class below our so called V100 amp design can be found.
These amps are sometime built with thru-hole components, sometime with surface mount components (SMC). 
So the amps G100, G105, G107, G109, RS 02 and RS 08 share nearly identical amp circuitry.
They differ in features according to their specific intended use.

Another class below G103 can be found.
Here a very well reputated small integrated speaker amp is on duty. 

Our 19" models F388 S/D are made with power op-amps.
In total we offer today 15 headphone amps for different needs - who offers more


----------



## musicmaker

Love your amps. The packaging and shipping, not so much. Speaking from personal experience. Ordered the V281. In addition to all the shipping screw ups by UPS (which I wont get into here), I was very disappointed to see the amp shipped in a single box, one side of which was completely destroyed in transit and the amp showing with its plastic wrapper when it was delivered to me. I paid over $2500 for it and find it ridiculous that it wasn't even double boxed and packaged carefully.


----------



## Badas

musicmaker said:


> Love your amps. The packaging and shipping, not so much. Speaking from personal experience. Ordered the V281. In addition to all the shipping screw ups by UPS (which I wont get into here), I was very disappointed to see the amp shipped in a single box, one side of which was completely destroyed in transit and the amp showing with its plastic wrapper when it was delivered to me. I paid over $2500 for it and find it ridiculous that it wasn't even double boxed and packaged carefully.



Mine went back to Germany then back to me in New Zealand and it was fine. 
Basically mine has traveled the planet.


----------



## musicmaker

Badas said:


> Mine went back to Germany then back to me in New Zealand and it was fine.
> Basically mine has traveled the planet.



That doesn't make it right.
I know the amp is built like a tank but that doesn't mean it can be packaged carelessly.


----------



## zhgutov

My Lake People device was in double package (small product box and additional box with tons of damping). This is how synthax.de works.


----------



## 3083joe

musicmaker said:


> That doesn't make it right.
> I know the amp is built like a tank but that doesn't mean it can be packaged carelessly.



Strange mine shipped double boxed!


----------



## Ragnar-BY

fdg said:


> For our opinion we developed with the amp design of V200 something hard to beat and hard to improve further.


I have to agree with that. V200 was my first good headphone amp. I was playing with different amps after that, but V200 is still on my desk. I think my amp rolling would end up buying V281 sooner or later 

Also, can you tell if there should be any difference in sound quality with balanced and unbalanced source for V280 or V281? I understand that balanced connection has it`s benefits, but with short interconnect wires those benefits are usually small. And the amp itself would do the same job in both cases to make a balanced headphone output? Or using balanced input for balanced output could have any SQ benefits?


----------



## Pharmaboy

The point has been made on this tread before (and elsewhere): any amp that has been designed to be balanced in terms of circuit layout & power section redundancy, will probably sound somewhat better in balanced mode than in SE mode. And that is what I hear on the V281. It's not a dramatic thing, but there are some subtle sonic differences (involving distortion/signal purity, soundstaging, dynamics & sometimes bass) between balanced & SE outputs on the same headphones (adjusting to any degree possible for the 6 dB louder output via balanced).

Occasionally an amp will be SE in design, but have a 4-pin XLR (convenience) output--ie, the output is SE, but conveyed via 3 of the 4 pins of the XLR jack. My Audio GD SA-31SE is like that. As you might expect, I can't hear any difference between the 1/4" output vs XLR.

I have compared good SE amps (Lake People G109-A) to good balanced amps (V281 & Liquid Carbon) many times. It's obviously not an exact science, since some variation in wires used is inevitable. And of course, it's pretty hard to single out the SE vs balanced factor as cause for any sonic differences heard between amps, when there are so many other things that make the amps different.

I've concluded that well designed SE amps sound wonderful; and well designed balanced amps sound wonderful + a little bit more.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

Pharmaboy said:


> The point has been made on this tread before (and elsewhere): any amp that has been designed to be balanced in terms of circuit layout & power section redundancy, will probably sound somewhat better in balanced mode than in SE mode. And that is what I hear on the V281. It's not a dramatic thing, but there are some subtle sonic differences (involving distortion/signal purity, soundstaging, dynamics & sometimes bass) between balanced & SE outputs on the same headphones (adjusting to any degree possible for the 6 dB louder output via balanced).


Well, maybe my English isn`t good enough. I was asking different thing 

I understand difference between SE and balanced outputs. I want to know if it would be any difference for V281 (driving headphones via balanced output) with balanced or single ended input from DAC. I know some amps are making balanced outputs only with balanced sources. Such amps would obviously have a difference. V280 and V281, as far I know, do not require balanced source to drive headphones in push-pull mode. Or I am wrong and V281 needs balanced source to be a balanced amp?


----------



## zhgutov

Ragnar-BY said:


> V280 and V281, as far I know, do not require balanced source to drive headphones in push-pull mode.


Both XLR and RCA inputs may be used with the headphones connected with the balanced or unbalanced cable.
The same is true for the preamp outputs. In this case the input level will be on RCA outputs, and the XLR outputs will be 6 dB higher (with unity gain via internal DIP-switches and the volume control set to "post").


----------



## Pharmaboy

Ragnar-BY said:


> Well, maybe my English isn`t good enough. I was asking different thing
> 
> I understand difference between SE and balanced outputs. I want to know if it would be any difference for V281 (driving headphones via balanced output) with balanced or single ended input from DAC. I know some amps are making balanced outputs only with balanced sources. Such amps would obviously have a difference. V280 and V281, as far I know, do not require balanced source to drive headphones in push-pull mode. Or I am wrong and V281 needs balanced source to be a balanced amp?



OK, now I understand. Sorry for the misdirect...

Unfortunately, this issue you write about (is balanced input necessary "true balanced" HP output) is one of the most argued topics on Head-Fi & elswhere. Some people insist that true balanced can only result from balanced inputs.

I would love to hear the Violectric response to that question...

All I can tell you is that I do not have any DACs with balanced outputs. I feed signal to my V281 from either an Audio GD DAC-19 or NOS 19 DAC. Despite that, I'm pretty sure the signal coming out of the V281's 4-pin XLR output is truly balanced; it's somewhat higher in level than from SE outputs, also sounds somewhat different. 

I can also tell you that, wired as described from the SE DAC, my V281 outputs true balanced L & R signals through the 2 X 3-pin XLR jacks on the back. I have used it that way to power studio monitors that prefer balanced inputs, and it sounded very good indeed.


----------



## Morimoriya 62

Hi guys 

Please guide me 

Do you thinking V281 or Ican pro better for HD800S?
Can anyone comparison two amplifiers ?


Regards Mori


----------



## acguitar84

Has anyone compared a V281 to a Schiit Jotunheim? Any impressions?


----------



## emptymt

Morimoriya 62 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Please guide me
> 
> ...



Hi Mori, 

You should check out my audition impression v281 vs iFi Pro Ican, I was using focal Utopia though, but can give you some ideas.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-224#post-13945508

I have reviewed the HD800S in the past, as far as the headphone pairing go with the amps, based from my experience of the 2 amps, it will come down to 2 things for you.
Bass and body of the sound.
If you wish to up the bass and increase the body of the tone quite a bit, the iFi will help you with that a little bit better, as the tube+ will make it more like that.

The v281 also has a little bit of warmth in it, but not as mush as the tube+ mode in the iFi.

for other technicalities, use case, etc, check out my impressions.
I decided to buy the v281 for a variety of different factors, not only the sound.


----------



## Fegefeuer

acguitar84 said:


> Has anyone compared a V281 to a Schiit Jotunheim? Any impressions?



They are in completely different price leagues but as it seems you own the Yggy (or even 2 ) I think an upgrade in the amp department is long overdue and there's nothing I could say in favor of the Jotunheim except it's price. I found the Jotunheim to be creating fatigue, having glary treble and not being clean/clear, being unrefined in comparison. It was hailed as having competent synergy with the HD 650 but the best HD 650 are modded anyway and those reveal the Jotunheim's weakness even more.

I'd rather have a Vali 2 or a Valhalla 2 by far, however as hinted above: V281 all the way. Make sure to experiment with pre-gain settings from -14db, -12db,-6db etc.


----------



## ArthurPower

A big thank you to everyone who visited us at the NYC CanJam show. A few pics...


























Cheers!


----------



## 3083joe

ArthurPower said:


> A big thank you to everyone who visited us at the NYC CanJam show. A few pics...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome.  

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## zhgutov

ArthurPower said:


> A big thank you to everyone who visited us at the NYC CanJam show. A few pics...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting what is the function of RS 05 _without femto clock_ here?


----------



## ArthurPower

Even without the femto clock option the RS 05 (standard clock) still makes a very noticeable improvement with most DAC's. The difference between the standard clock and the optional femto clock is much smaller but still a further improvement non the less. We were demonstrating that even in standard form it makes an audible difference that is easy to discern. To me it really doesn't make sense to buy the RS 05 without the femto clock option. If you're using it as just a format converter and want to save a few bucks then maybe it makes sense to skip the femto clock. Violectric / Lake People likes to give users a lot of options to choose from.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

ArthurPower said:


> A big thank you to everyone who visited us at the NYC CanJam show. A few pics...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Had a great time listening to the V281 at CanJam and talking with you about all the Lake People and Violectric products on display. One of these days I’ll bite the bullet and sell my Phonitor 2 to upgrade to the V281 but it will be bittersweet! Anywhere in NYC I can listen to this bad boy to make the parting easier?


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, you could visit Arthur and have a listen there I guess. Not sure how far it is for you but would be worth it. 

Violectric Audio
Power Holdings Inc
Wall Township, New Jersey
USA


----------



## ra990

Found a pretty decent Chinese knock-off of the V281. Gotta hand it to them, they sure know how to copy something. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fully-Bala...RCA-Stereo-Amp-HiFi-Audio-Preamp/252981603332


----------



## ArthurPower

With lots of really poor quality parts inside from the capacitors all the way to the relays. And you can be sure it doesn't come with a 5-year warranty.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Bizarre!

The only was to kinow hos decent it really is...is to listen to it. I don't volunteer...


----------



## ra990

ArthurPower said:


> With lots of really poor quality parts inside from the capacitors all the way to the relays. And you can be sure it doesn't come with a 5-year warranty.


Definitely. You can see the differences in the pictures of the internals. I'm sure it doesn't compare with the real thing, but they really got the look down.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ArthurPower said:


> With lots of really poor quality parts inside from the capacitors all the way to the relays. And you can be sure it doesn't come with a 5-year warranty.



You can also be reasonably sure there won't be a version of the manual in German (maybe not in _any_ language).


----------



## ra990 (Mar 16, 2018)

I've been listening to the V281 being fed by the Hugo 2. While the Hugo 2 can drive the Utopia really really well by itself, I have to admit that the V281 seems to add a slight hint of smoothness over the Hugo 2 directly. I'm sure purists would describe that smoothness as degradation of the audio signal, but sometimes it takes the edge off less than stellar recordings, which the Hugo 2 presents very transparently.

I have it listed for sale, but I wouldn't mind keeping it since it will really be the only solid state amp I'll probably ever need. Don't have to worry what kind of headphones I might get down the line.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Re: "I'm sure purists would describe that smoothness as degradation of the audio signal" -- why would you say that. I think you're looking through the wrong end of the telescope here...putting the V281 uber-amp on the output of the Hugo's DAC is a classic way to build in something good to get something even better. 

It takes a lot of well-chosen electronic components, design time, and quality construction to get that smoothness you mention.

If that smoothness is degradation, I'm enjoying the hell out of the degradation I get from my V281...


----------



## ra990

Pharmaboy said:


> Re: "I'm sure purists would describe that smoothness as degradation of the audio signal" -- why would you say that. I think you're looking through the wrong end of the telescope here...putting the V281 uber-amp on the output of the Hugo's DAC is a classic way to build in something good to get something even better.
> 
> It takes a lot of well-chosen electronic components, design time, and quality construction to get that smoothness you mention.
> 
> If that smoothness is degradation, I'm enjoying the hell out of the degradation I get from my V281...


Well, that's kind of the idea behind the Hugo 2 headphone output, right? You're getting the most purest signal directly from the DAC. According to Rob Watts, any amplification after that only degrades the audio signal and takes away from the transparency. I agree with you that it can be enjoyable, especially with lesser quality source material.


----------



## ArthurPower

The Chinese no doubt can do a fantastic job of cloning something and making it look alike. The problem is the use of cheap parts and longevity. Is it worth $1,000 if it only lasts a couple years and has no resale value? 

I have nothing against Chinese products as I also represent Matrix audio who makes fantastic gear. But how can you have any respect for a company like 'Inaccurate Audio' that just blatantly rips something off. It's one thing to copy someone else's circuit design but then to go to the extent of making it cosmetically look like the original, it's just deplorable.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ra990 said:


> Well, that's kind of the idea behind the Hugo 2 headphone output, right? You're getting the most purest signal directly from the DAC. According to Rob Watts, any amplification after that only degrades the audio signal and takes away from the transparency. I agree with you that it can be enjoyable, especially with lesser quality source material.



The idea behind the Hugo 2's headphone output is the same as with any well-designed & executed combination unit (DAC+HP amp): that ideal/optimized interface & matching between the DAC & HP amp in this unit will result in optimal sound. 

But that doesn't mean one can't better the output of the Hugo's HP amp. And despite Rob's comments, it does not mean that alternate uses of his product diminish transparency. Sorry, but that's too global, pre-emptive, and conclusory a statement. It doesn't make sense on logical grounds, and I don't think it's born out by experiments w/alterative equipment groupings.

By doing something like route the Hugo's DAC output to the input of an endgame HP amp like the V281, one trades that ideal/optimized interface (now the interface is an RCA interconnect cable, a variable unto itself): but the amp part (the V281 should be at least as good as the Hugo's amp...maybe better. 

I've heard the Chord Hugo; also the Chord TT. Both were good in their own ways. But I much prefer having multiple high-level DACs and HP amps to mix & match. The results range from "nice" to "wow!"


----------



## musicmaker

I owned the Hugo2 and V281 at one point. The gain stage in the Hugo 2 is not a separate discrete module that can be bypassed but is integral by intent. So in essence you are double amplifying the signal when you pair it with an external amp. The H2 sounds cleanest when used without additional amplification. Having said that, if you like what you hear from the H2 and the V281, that's all matters and enjoy the music


----------



## Pharmaboy

Well, looks like I misunderstood capabilities of the Hugo. I assumed it would output digital from the DAC to another headphone amp. 

If not, apologies for the misinformation & misdirect in posts above...


----------



## LCMusicLover

ra990 said:


> Found a pretty decent Chinese knock-off of the V281. Gotta hand it to them, they sure know how to copy something. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fully-Bala...RCA-Stereo-Amp-HiFi-Audio-Preamp/252981603332



Yes, I looked at that as well before I found my v280.


----------



## musicmaker

ra990 said:


> Found a pretty decent Chinese knock-off of the V281. Gotta hand it to them, they sure know how to copy something. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fully-Bala...RCA-Stereo-Amp-HiFi-Audio-Preamp/252981603332



Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. 

They copied the look alright. But I'm willing to bet the similarity ends there and it sounds nowhere close to the real thing. The V281 is one of the nicest SS amps and you get the best customer service from Arthur.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Pharmaboy said:


> ...I assumed it would output digital from the DAC to another headphone amp...



Hunh?


----------



## Pharmaboy

damn--another misstatement on my part.

...I meant that in the manner of other combo units, where the output of the DAC can be routed to an external headphone amp, rather than having the built-in amp in the combo unit do the honors.

If' I'd said "audio signal" instead of "digital," it would have made more sense (sorry)


----------



## donato

musicmaker said:


> Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.
> 
> They copied the look alright. But I'm willing to bet the similarity ends there and it sounds nowhere close to the real thing. The V281 is one of the nicest SS amps and you get the best customer service from Arthur.



For the sake of being provocative, how do we know this knockoff sucks (i don't know/understand enough about the internals of both)?  Sadly, someone could reverse engineer a product at a much lower price point - just look at the PCB, look at the parts, and duplicate without all the R&D and overhead of a larger company.  I'm not saying that the V281 isn't worth it...quite the contrary...I spent my hard earned dollars to buy one last year and have found it easily worth it, but it doesn't mean someone couldn't make a decent knockoff in China at a much lower price.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Pharmaboy said:


> ...If' I'd said "audio signal" instead of "digital," it would have made more sense (sorry)



Yes, you really have to be careful — Friday night after a hard week & several beers, a statement like that could make my head explode


----------



## sahmen

donato said:


> For the sake of being provocative, how do we know this knockoff sucks (i don't know/understand enough about the internals of both)?  Sadly, someone could reverse engineer a product at a much lower price point - just look at the PCB, look at the parts, and duplicate without all the R&D and overhead of a larger company.  I'm not saying that the V281 isn't worth it...quite the contrary...I spent my hard earned dollars to buy one last year and have found it easily worth it, but it doesn't mean someone couldn't make a decent knockoff in China at a much lower price.



Personally, I am willing to agree that everything is possible in theory, and that someone could make a "knock off" that is as good as the original, or even better... but only in theory...

It is, however, an entirely different question whether I'd be willing to invest my "hard earned dollars" (to use your expression, and $999 of them, in this particular case) in such a product, sight unseen, and without any reliable warranty, or any guarantee that I'd get my money back if the unit turns out to be inferior (which to be frank, most knock-offs often are)... Will you do that if you can afford the "genuine article"?  Personally, I'd rather place my bet on the real thing, even if I have to buy one from the used market.

Case in point : I'm staying away from Massdrop's Gustard H20 right now, because I learnt that it does not come with any warranty, even though there is a lot I admired about it when it was first announced.  I may need another V281-like amp for a second system in the near future, and the Gustard's specs and features seem to check all the right boxes, apart from being much cheaper than the V281, but I have not been able to bring myself to get it, because of this uncertainty about "knock-offs" and lack of a warranty... YMMV


----------



## musicmaker

^ Completely agree with that.

Firstly I would not spend money on an unethically produced product. But that's me. If I just look at the rational side of it, $999 is still a significant amount of money to pay for something you have not heard, has no reviews/reputation, questionable warranty. Violectric amps carry a 5 year warranty and I dont know of another amp manufacturer that offers that.


----------



## zhgutov

Those who buy something like this support such behaviour.
This chinese guys cannot develop it's own good equipment.
They can only copy something with the questionable result.
But the real guys get less support instead.
I think they should get that support to be able to develop something new, at least.
Personally, I would not buy such clones.
But actually, this is a good sign when you have a clones.
This can tell something good about the original devices.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I agree. Better wait on used (or new) deals if you don't want to splash out so much cash. Those 1000 dollars for a knockoff could go right down the toilet in a matter of a very short amount of time. Violectric's service doesn't end with the warranty, they'll help you out years after it. That stuff also costs money and storage (spare parts etc.)

Let's continue to discuss the V281 though. 

Anyone else excited about the High End 2018 show in Munich?


----------



## zhgutov

Fegefeuer said:


> Anyone else excited about the High End 2018 show in Munich?


I want to go there. Not sure it will happen actually, but I hope it will.


----------



## DamageInc77

Anyone here who has purchased the upgrade 128 step volume pot for their V281? Was it worth it?


----------



## 3083joe

DamageInc77 said:


> Anyone here who has purchased the upgrade 128 step volume pot for their V281? Was it worth it?



I got the fully loaded v281 and I like the 128 step but I’ve never heard without so can’t confirm the worth of it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

3083joe said:


> I got the fully loaded v281 and I like the 128 step but I’ve never heard without so can’t confirm the worth of it.



same comment

but I recall a post several months ago by someone who owned a fully tricked out V281, getting opportunity to hear one w/o stepped pot. he said it sounded good, but subtly inferior to the stepped pot. sorry can't recall more detail.

suspect the answer is, yeah it's worth it (but not cheap...chasing perfection never is)


----------



## noplsestar

DamageInc77 said:


> Anyone here who has purchased the upgrade 128 step volume pot for their V281? Was it worth it?





3083joe said:


> I got the fully loaded v281 and I like the 128 step but I’ve never heard without so can’t confirm the worth of it.





Pharmaboy said:


> same comment
> 
> but I recall a post several months ago by someone who owned a fully tricked out V281, getting opportunity to hear one w/o stepped pot. he said it sounded good, but subtly inferior to the stepped pot. sorry can't recall more detail.
> 
> suspect the answer is, yeah it's worth it (but not cheap...chasing perfection never is)



Also look here what John Grandberg wrote at innerfidelity:
„Going one step further will cost you $580. This replaces the RK27 with a custom made 128-step relay-based unit, with .75dB intervals between each step. This one is also motorized and uses the same remote. Designer Fried Reim tells me this version "produces the best channel balance, step precision, absence of distortion, and minimized crosstalk." This is the option I chose for my own personal V281, which allowed me to handily compare with the motorized RK27 in my review loaner. Any differences to be heard? Nothing drastic, but after extensive back and forth I did hear an improvement in transparency and focus—especially at lower volumes with sensitive IEMs. At this high of a level I don't believe there are any major gains left to be had. A small improvement may sound trivial for the price, yet is more of a big deal than it might initially seem. I'll put it this way—I'm used to my electrostatic system using a KGSShv driving the Stax SR-007 or SR-4070. The "basic" V281 paired with LCD-3 or HE-6 seems like a step down from my Stax rig, while using the upgraded V281 feels closer to a sidestep. Again, absolutely nothing wrong with the stock volume solution but if you can swing the extra dough I really do recommend the upgrade.“

It’s on the second page:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/authoritative-and-potent-violectric-v281-headphone-amplifier


----------



## DamageInc77

I read that review, but I tend to be rather skeptical of reviewer-recommended upgrades. I asked here to hear from customers who might have had theirs for a while. I feel like reviewers tend to love fully decked out upgraded items with little reservation, new toy syndrome-like.

Of course, as observed, most haven't experienced both the standard ALPS pot and the 128 step relay pot. 600 dollars just seems a bit excessive for such an upgrade. The standard pot is a really nice one to begin with. I'll think about it I guess. Does anyone know if you can install it yourself if you decide to upgrade post-purchase, or if it has to be installed by Violectric/Lake People?


----------



## 3083joe

noplsestar said:


> Also look here what John Grandberg wrote at innerfidelity:
> „Going one step further will cost you $580. This replaces the RK27 with a custom made 128-step relay-based unit, with .75dB intervals between each step. This one is also motorized and uses the same remote. Designer Fried Reim tells me this version "produces the best channel balance, step precision, absence of distortion, and minimized crosstalk." This is the option I chose for my own personal V281, which allowed me to handily compare with the motorized RK27 in my review loaner. Any differences to be heard? Nothing drastic, but after extensive back and forth I did hear an improvement in transparency and focus—especially at lower volumes with sensitive IEMs. At this high of a level I don't believe there are any major gains left to be had. A small improvement may sound trivial for the price, yet is more of a big deal than it might initially seem. I'll put it this way—I'm used to my electrostatic system using a KGSShv driving the Stax SR-007 or SR-4070. The "basic" V281 paired with LCD-3 or HE-6 seems like a step down from my Stax rig, while using the upgraded V281 feels closer to a sidestep. Again, absolutely nothing wrong with the stock volume solution but if you can swing the extra dough I really do recommend the upgrade.“
> 
> It’s on the second page:
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/authoritative-and-potent-violectric-v281-headphone-amplifier


Thanks.


----------



## zhgutov (Mar 20, 2018)

DamageInc77 said:


> Does anyone know if you can install it yourself if you decide to upgrade post-purchase, or if it has to be installed by Violectric/Lake People?


You can install it by yourself, but this is not as easy as to install USB PCB, for example.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The rumors of an even higher lineup of amps are becoming true, and sooner than most of us expected they will actually ship this year. Yep, looks like we will get to see them at the High End Show in Munich. 
Positioned above the Violectric series to improve upon the design even further (also in build/aesthetics), they will have their own name/branding and thus not be called Violectric Vxx or anything similar.

I'll be creating a new thread for them very soon. Very excited about their build, design and of course how they sound.


----------



## Pharmaboy

well...WOW. 

Like an Easter bunny, "I'm all ears" for these new amp designs...


----------



## musicmaker (Mar 30, 2018)

Great strategy if this is true. Gimme V281 sound in a GS-X mkII like case. Goosebumps.....


----------



## Fegefeuer

oh, it'll be even better not only in sound but also technicalities like noise. Compared to the V281 for instance it will have about -12db less noise under max power/load. Much bigger PSU, 52.800 uF Nichikon caps, reed-relais volume control etc..


----------



## Fegefeuer

Pharmaboy said:


> well...WOW.
> 
> Like an Easter bunny, "I'm all ears" for these new amp designs...



I created the corresponding thread now. Let's keep this for the V281.


----------



## noplsestar

Fegefeuer said:


> I created the corresponding thread now. Let's keep this for the V281.


Can you please post a link to the new thread? Thanks!


----------



## andromeda1954

noplsestar said:


> Can you please post a link to the new thread? Thanks!


Tomorrow is April fools day?


----------



## weebull

andromeda1954 said:


> Tomorrow is April fools day?


haha nice catch! (i hope)


----------



## davidespinosa

noplsestar said:


> Can you please post a link to the new thread? Thanks!



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nii...us4-us4-headphone-amps-by-lake-people.876018/


----------



## musicmaker

I have a relay with remote V281.

Does the cracking noise during volume adjustments bother anyone else or is it just me ? Its super annoying. But the unit sounds terrific otherwise.


----------



## Pharmaboy

musicmaker said:


> I have a relay with remote V281.
> 
> Does the cracking noise during volume adjustments bother anyone else or is it just me ? Its super annoying. But the unit sounds terrific otherwise.



I don't get a "cracking" noise, exactly...what I get are 2 other annoying symptoms:

The volume will overshoot, even with a single discreet click on remote (getting muchy louder or softer than wanted--a bad thing w/headphones in particular). Other times, the volume seems not to change, despite me clicking the remote--then a 2nd click on the remote will suddenly boost or attenuate volume more than anticipated
Even when I'm not using the remote & not touching the pot, it often makes "racking sounds" as if it's being adjusted upwards or downwards (sometimes for minutes on end).
I spoke to Arthur about it at CanJam and he said the pot may be defective/need replacement. I need to send it to him for repair.

But yes, it sounds great (always).


----------



## Fegefeuer

musicmaker said:


> I have a relay with remote V281.
> 
> Does the cracking noise during volume adjustments bother anyone else or is it just me ? Its super annoying. But the unit sounds terrific otherwise.



It kinda shook me at first because I never heard something like that before, but you will get used to it until you totally forget about it.


----------



## musicmaker

It not a clicking noise, almost like static when adjust the volume. Doesn't seem normal to me. Brand new unit.


----------



## stemiki

musicmaker said:


> I have a relay with remote V281.
> 
> Does the cracking noise during volume adjustments bother anyone else or is it just me ? Its super annoying. But the unit sounds terrific otherwise.



If you adjust the volume manually, without using the remote control, by moving the potentiometer slightly but quickly, the click almost disappears.


----------



## noplsestar

But this shouldn’t happen at this pricepoint, should it? I hope they manage to get rid of such problems with the Niimbus.


----------



## stemiki

Volume control with relay has many advantages that have already been discussed in the past.
The only drawback is this light click during rotation.

The new Niinbus amp I seem to have read that uses red relay which
they should be less prone to noise.


----------



## townes

musicmaker said:


> It not a clicking noise, almost like static when adjust the volume. Doesn't seem normal to me. Brand new unit.


Yes, you can describe it as static noise. As it's only during volume adjustment, it doesn't disturb me (much), but it would be nicer, without. Anyway: it's normal for the relay-based volume control in this amp.


----------



## musicmaker

Its not a deal breaker but I expect an amp that costs as much as this (add $550 for the relay option) to be not popping and cracking during a volume adjustment. Apart from that annoyance, this is a terrific amp. It holds its own against the GS-X mark II which I own. Both are jaw dropping in their own way. The GS-X mII amazes me with its transparency, open airy sound and awesome dynamics. Switch over to the V281. A different perspective that's equally amazing with tasteful warmth & weight while still being dynamic and detailed. This is also an amp you can listen to for hours without fatigue. I cannot pick one over the other. The V281 is that good !


----------



## 13713

musicmaker said:


> I have a relay with remote V281.
> 
> Does the cracking noise during volume adjustments bother anyone else or is it just me ? Its super annoying. But the unit sounds terrific otherwise.



I have the same issue it is a nightmare. I kept questioning if I should send it back but after looking into it a little it is supposedly normal.


----------



## fdg

These words had been posted by me earlier but it seems to be necessary to bump them from time to time ...

*About different kinds of potentiometers (volume control)*

Think of a simple potentiometer as an open resistor with its resistance increasing from one end to the other.
One end of the resistor is connected to the analog signal, the other end is connected to ground.
On the surface of this resistors there is a metalic whiper. By moving this whiper on the surface of the resistor different levels of
attenuation may be achieved from no attenuation (whiper on the end where the signal comes in) to maximum attenuation (whiper on the end where ground is connected).

The increasing resistance of the potentiometer may follow different laws.
A linear law is preferred for balance or tone control.
A positive logarithm law is good for volume control while a negative logarithm law is best for microphone preamps.

The above resistor may appear in different shapes.
Most time it is curved with an angele about 300 degrees from on end to the other.
On mixing consoles you will find straight potentiometers.
You can pack several channels (resistors) in an enclosure or pack several enclosures with a single resistor inside together and control them with one or more shafts.

But there are several disadvantages to consider when you like to use more than one potentiometer at a time - for stereo you need at least two.
There is ALWAYS a mismatch between two or more potentiometers as these can´t be manufactured 100% exact.
This mismatch can be heard as a channel imbalance, meaning the center may move a bit to the left or the right whilst turning the potentiometer.
Also the crosstalk may suffer during attenuation. Therefore better potentiometers have a dedicated chamber for each resistor.

Some potentiometers offer one or more detents to ease operation.
These detents have NOTHING to do with a stepped attenuator !!!
A common feature is a center detent for balance control to exactly determine the middle position.
Other popular detents are 13-detent for tone control,
31- or 41-detent for volume control to ease the repositioning to a specific value / angle.

To come across the accuracy- and crosstalk-issue several manufacturers offer real stepped attenuators.
These are realized with 12-step or 24-step turn-switches.
The limitation to max. 24 steps is due to the fact that there are no affordable turn-switches with more than 24 steps in this world.

Just imagine that the above mentioned resistor is devided in small portions of high accuracy with 1% or even 0.1 %.
Instead the whiper of a standard potentiometer, the 12-step or 24-step turn-switch acts to come from one resistor to the other.
Also you may position the switches for left and right far from each other to enhance crosstalk.
The disadvantage of this idea is that 24 steps often are not enough to meet your specific needs.

The next idea is the electronical attenuation.
There are some older approaches like the VCA (voltage controlled attenuator) which work quite fine as an attenuator but have high amounts of distortion.
The better approach is the DCA (digital controlled attenuator), offering 128 or 256 steps of very exact attenuation with good crosstalk.
But unfortunately there is still some negative influence on the signal …

The final solution is the relay controlled attenuation.
It is as exact as the 24-step turn-switch solution (but with more steps) because of the use of accurate resistors.
There is no noisy or distorting active electronic in the signal chain. There is best crosstalk.
Instead of the contacts of a turn-switch, here relays are in charge to switch between the resistors and perform the attenuation of the signal.
We at Violectric voted for a 128-step solution with 0.75 dB per step for a 96 dB attenuation.

To control electronic or relay based attenuators, normally up-down-buttons or incrementals (turn switches without a beginning or an end) are used because this is a cheap solution.
We voted for a real potentiometer with a beginning and an end so people can check by a simple look at the knob the amount of attenuation.
To do so, we again use a motor driven potentiometer (which would not be nesseccary at this point) to have the same look and feel compared to our other gear.
Instead the analog signal attenuation a control voltage is created by this potentiometer which is fed to an A/D converter to form a digital signal which sets the relays.

There is much light shining on the relay volume control but there is also some shadows:
You will hear the relays working whilst turning the knob, this is some clicking when turning slow or even sounds like some soft noise coming out of the box when turning fast.
The other disadvantage is the power consumption ….


----------



## 13713

The clicking has always been there. But there is some crackling "lack of a better descriptive word" when I adjust it as well. Still it is a brilliant amp and I would not change it for the world.

Also thank you for the in depth explanation.


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## musicmaker

Exactly, clicking I can live with. But this is like a static cracking/popping noise. I'm sure there are technical reasons. I get very precise channel matching etc, but doesn't change the fact that from a user experience point of view, its very annoying and takes away from the overall enjoyment.


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## Justin_Time

musicmaker said:


> It not a clicking noise, almost like static when adjust the volume. Doesn't seem normal to me. Brand new unit.



As it has been discussed several times before, this is not a defect.  It is the compromise they made to give you the very best volume control without channel imbalance. You should not worry about it as the noise is normal and not a defect.  But I can understand if it bothers you.  It is a lot like the surface noise with LP except that it happens only when you change the volume.  Some people can completely ignore it, some cannot. 

Personally, once I set the volume to the level I like, I leave it alone and re-start the music from the beginning, sit back to really enjoy it, so the noise during the change is basically irrelevant to me. But on inferior volume control, the slight imbalance messes up the center image and annoys the heck out of me, especially with amps that do not have the balance adjustment.


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## Justin_Time

Have any of you guys (and girls) made an in-depth comparison of the V281 and GS-XMk2, allegedly one of the best solid-state head amp available?

The GS-X Mk2 is a wonderful amp for the Focal Utopia. _I_t also works very well with the HD800S, Grado PS2000 and Fostex TH900Mk2 but, to my ears, is not the best amp for these cans--the Apex Teton is but sadly, being an OTL, it is a very poor amp for the Utopia due to impedance mismatch.

Just wondering what you think about pairing the V281 with the HD800S, Grado PS2000 or Fostex TH900Mk2.


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## Justin_Time

musicmaker said:


> Exactly, clicking I can live with. But this is like a static cracking/popping noise. I'm sure there are technical reasons. I get very precise channel matching etc, but doesn't change the fact that from a user experience point of view, its very annoying and takes away from the overall enjoyment.



Interesting how we respond so differently to the same thing.

I do not seriously listen to music until the volume has been perfectly adjusted to the level I want so I barely notice the crackling noise during the adjustment, especially when the manufacturer told me the noise is normal--BTW, these Lake People folks are incredibly nice and very responsive to customers! The V281 is the third product  I bought from them.


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## musicmaker (Apr 7, 2018)

Justin_Time said:


> Interesting how we respond so differently to the same thing.
> 
> I do not seriously listen to music until the volume has been perfectly adjusted to the level I want so I barely notice the crackling noise during the adjustment, especially when the manufacturer told me the noise is normal--BTW, these Lake People folks are incredibly nice and very responsive to customers! The V281 is the third product  I bought from them.



I adjust volume all the time in my office at work, people walking in etc. At home, I dont as much once I set it. Different use cases. We all hear and respond differently. I totally agree, Arthur is one of the best in the business. Best customer service ever and he also his stuff.

I own the Focal clear and it sounds fantastic out of both the GS-X mkII and V281. Heard the Utopias and they sounded really good out of the v281 (the subtle warmth complements it). I do own the TH900mk2 but have not tested it with the V281. Can do that and let you know.


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## Arnaldo (Apr 9, 2018)

musicmaker said:


> ... Heard the Utopias and they sounded really good out of the v281 (the subtle warmth complements it)...



As a new owner of this same combo, I found the Utopia to sound incredibly powerful out of the surprisingly quiet V281, with plenty of detail and placement, even via their stock cable. The issue now is finding a suitable balanced cable to connect the two...


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## Ragnar-BY

Justin_Time said:


> Just wondering what you think about pairing the V281 with the HD800S, Grado PS2000 or Fostex TH900Mk2.


TH-900Mk2 are my primary cans. I own V200 and I think Violectrics 2XX are best amps for these. I`ve tried various other amps (even bought some of them for long-term listening) and always return to Violectric to find that it sounds better. I`ve never had a V281, but it should sound like a better version of V200, so I think it have to be a great match.


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## 13713

Ragnar-BY said:


> TH-900Mk2 are my primary cans. I own V200 and I think Violectrics 2XX are best amps for these. I`ve tried various other amps (even bought some of them for long-term listening) and always return to Violectric to find that it sounds better. I`ve never had a V281, but it should sound like a better version of V200, so I think it have to be a great match.



My primary headphones are HD-800 but the TH-900 is something special. When you get into the level of headphones at a certain price point there are very few that interest me but I will eventually own a pair of the TH-900's as they are unique and special in so many ways.


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## noplsestar

Why do you guys think the GS-X mkII is listed on the innerfidelity wall of fame but the V281 is „just“ „stuff we like“. Maybe because of the „clicking noise“? Haha. No, serious, I know the WoF is not to be seen as a non plus ultra, I‘m just curious what you think.


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## Justin_Time

Ragnar-BY said:


> TH-900Mk2 are my primary cans. I own V200 and I think Violectrics 2XX are best amps for these. I`ve tried various other amps (even bought some of them for long-term listening) and always return to Violectric to find that it sounds better. I`ve never had a V281, but it should sound like a better version of V200, so I think it have to be a great match.


Thanks!


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## Arnaldo (Apr 9, 2018)

noplsestar said:


> Why do you guys think the GS-X mkII is listed on the innerfidelity wall of fame but the V281 is „just“ „stuff we like“. Maybe because of the „clicking noise“? Haha. No, serious, I know the WoF is not to be seen as a non plus ultra, I‘m just curious what you think.



I wouldn't put too much thought into InnerFidelity's Drywall of Fame. One has to wonder how long it will be left standing...

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/stereophile-and-related-sites-sold-layoffs-have-begun.744070/


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## Violent_Sneeze

Ragnar-BY said:


> TH-900Mk2 are my primary cans. I own V200 and I think Violectrics 2XX are best amps for these. I`ve tried various other amps (even bought some of them for long-term listening) and always return to Violectric to find that it sounds better. I`ve never had a V281, but it should sound like a better version of V200, so I think it have to be a great match.



I have the TH900s as well and can't wait to pair them with the V280.


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## zhgutov (Apr 9, 2018)

noplsestar said:


> Why do you guys think the GS-X mkII is listed on the innerfidelity wall of fame but the V281 is „just“ „stuff we like“. Maybe because of the „clicking noise“? Haha. No, serious, I know the WoF is not to be seen as a non plus ultra, I‘m just curious what you think.


Well, I think they used this amp incorrectly.

Take a look at the quote:
_Coming in third is the LCD-3 fazor paired with the Violectric V281.
I noticed some noise issues using the V281's 4-pin balanced out and quickly switched to single ended._
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-participant-report-brian-na-blur
I have LCD-3 and V281, and there is no any hint of the noise in _any_ mode.
It is really hard to get noise from this pair, but they somehow succeeded in that regard.
The only case when I can get very quiet noise is when I set the gain higher
and turn the volume knob to the maximum position!

The second thing is the input level. V281 can accept up to 21 dBu for both XLR and RCA.
If you use something like Benchmark DAC with 24 dBu by default, you can have overloaded signal.
This is especially noticeable with the highly compressed music, which will be clipped above 22-23 dBu.
I don't know how they set things up, but this may lead to slightly bright/harsh/busy sound signature.
The best thing you can do here is not to exceed 20 dBu (7.75 V RMS).
But in the case of the Big Sound I cannot see the device which may produce such a high level.

The third thing is the pairing. V281 is a transparent amplifier. It does not make the sound sweeter, liquid etc.
It can sound good with a good DAC. It can sound worse with worse DACs or with incorrect setup.

When you have something which make the sound sweeter, more pleasant, you can be more careless about the accurate setup.
When you have something accurate, you should be accurate too, otherwise you can get strange result.
It is too easy to make something wrong, much easier than most people think.
Especially when you have lots of things to change.

And, finally, this may be personal preference of reviewer.

This is what I think about that


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## 13713 (Apr 9, 2018)

noplsestar said:


> Why do you guys think the GS-X mkII is listed on the innerfidelity wall of fame but the V281 is „just“ „stuff we like“. Maybe because of the „clicking noise“? Haha. No, serious, I know the WoF is not to be seen as a non plus ultra, I‘m just curious what you think.



Head Amp makes great amps. Honestly I have yet to read any actual review discuss the noise when adjusting the volume on a unit with the modified pot(speaking about the v281). When you get into a level of amps that are in a niche arena It really is hard to pick one above the others as they all seem to merge and do great things. Perhaps the Head Amp won out because you can order it in different color options /sarcasm.


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## musicmaker (Apr 9, 2018)

.


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## noplsestar

13713 said:


> Perhaps the Head Amp won out because you can order it in different color options /sarcasm.


That’s what I thought, too


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## Justin_Time

Unlike home speakers where the nominal impedance varies between only 4 and 8 ohms, headphone impedance can vary from as low as ~ 80 ohm (Focal Utopia) to as high as ~ 600 ohms.  It is hard to design an amp that works perfectly with all headphones.  It is just as hard to find a pair of headphones that sound good with all amps. Part (not all) of the problem is dynamic damping--the rule of thumb (backed by an analysis I won't bother you with) is to keep the impedance ratio (HP over amp) above 8. That is not always possible with all amp designs and all HPs.

My Apex Teton sounds great with the HD-800S but not so much with the Utopia (too much bloom in the bass).  On the other hand, my GS-X Mk2 sounds great with the Utopia but was a little too analytical with the HD-800S.  I have not had enough time yet to try the V281 with all my headphones--I have had it for just a couple of months.  But so far, there are hits and misses as with the other two amps.  I would say it is in the same league as the Teton and the GS-X. Good amp!


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## Pharmaboy

(the following is not based on theory or measurements...just listening)

Some amps, even ones without a dramatic/noticeable sonic signature, seem to impose their sound on headphones. Out of the 5 solid state amps I have,  only 1 seems to do this at all: the Audio GD SA-31SE. Despite its considerable power (10 wpc), this amp has a self-effacing, somewhat muted sound:  relatively quiet, not big in dynamics, down-the-middle-bass, and (best quality) black background + lots of space between notes (great for percussion). Out of the 8-10 headphones I've tried on this amp, all but 1 _didn't _sound (to at least some extent) more or less what I just described. 

The V281 is just the opposite. It does have a sound signature vs other amps (very slight warmth; concussive bass; big soundstage; insane dynamics). Yet all the headphones I've heard it on just sounded more like themselves--not the V281. So for any given headphone, whatever I hear on the V281 will probably come through on other amps. This makes the V281 useful for analyzing & comparing headphones. It's as close as I've heard to a "one size fits all" headphone amp--greatly enhanced by its extreme input/output & switching flexibility.

Of course, the one OTL/tube amp--the Woo WA3--plays by totally different rules. On low impedance designs, it boosts bass; but on high impedance designs it locks in to a startling degree. IMO you get an OTL precisely because it will lock in w/high impedance HPs (while not really being the best choice for low impedance ones).


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## zhgutov

Pharmaboy said:


> Yet all the headphones I've heard it on just sounded more like themselves--not the V281. So for any given headphone, whatever I hear on the V281 will probably come through on other amps. This makes the V281 useful for analyzing & comparing headphones.


Very interesting observation, in my opinion.

Recently I purchased Lake People ADC RS 04 and since that I made a couple of loopback recordings.
I found some ADC shootouts @ gearslutz forum and made loopbacks with their source tracks too.
After that I compared the source tracks with their recordings, and with my own recording.
I used different playback systems with different DACs to compare tracks (to be sure my DAC does not affect the observations).

I've found that I can easily pick the other DACs and ADCs in that shootouts.
But I cannot pick the original track or my recording, no matter is it A/B comparison or not.
Yes, I expected my system to be very transparent, but I didn't expect what I will not be able to hear the difference at all.

Surprisingly, even so called "mastering" converters have their sound signature, which is easy to hear.
And such converters may cost much more, even more than $10000.
This is okay if you want to "color" the sound, no matter is it audiophile device or pro audio device.
But I don't think it is good when you want to control the sound.

I don't know how to make the same test for the headphone amp, and probably there may be more difference with that kind of gear,
but I think all Lake People / Violectric devices share the same thing: they are true to source.


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## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> Very interesting observation, in my opinion.
> 
> Recently I purchased Lake People ADC RS 04 and since that I made a couple of loopback recordings.
> I found some ADC shootouts @ gearslutz forum and made loopbacks with their source tracks too.
> ...



Now it's your post that is interesting! 

It seems to me that underneath all our comparisons of amps & HPs is a verity of audio (in general):

It's rather easy for audio gear to "interpret" or color the incoming signal...to "editorialize" & impose a "flavor" on the input/signal
It's extremely difficult for audio gear to convey the input/signal w/complete transparency to the downstream equipment. Correction: complete transparency is impossible
A related thought: the impossibility of microphones, mixing decks, other recording gear to completely/transparently "capture" live performance. 

Another: "Transducers" (speakers & headphones), no matter how well engineered, remain assemblages of electrical/electronics + vibrating components + vibration control agents. We talk about "voicing" speakers or headphones. While that's a real art (my favorite "voicing" in headphones is by ZMF), it's is also an admission that genuine transparency to input/source is not possible...

Years ago when I had a big 2-channel "audiophile" system dominating my living room...eventually I realized no audio system, no matter how good or expensive, could really reproduce a live performance (even something like 1 singer w/acoustic guitar). People react to this in different ways. Some chase equipment they believe to be more accurate, revealing, and detailed (sort of like those who confuse high resolution w/quality in photography, when resolution is just 1 ingredient). Others chase warmth, musicality, "organic" sound (I'm in that group). 

These distinctions are always present in desktop & headphone audio...the "facts of life"


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## zhgutov (Apr 28, 2018)

Yes, the headphones and amps (especially headphones) should have more difference than the currently available DACs and ADCs.
But... Just try it by yourself: https://zhgutov.online/dropfolder/wandlertest.zip (~ 400 MB).
Maybe the playback systems I used and/or my ears limit the comparison.
I'm not trying to tell the source and the recording have no difference at all.

One of my track have "glitch" in the second half, but I think it's okay, and you can compare the first half of the track.
The source tracks ("referenz") are taken from here: Acousence, Andiamo, Lake People, Lavry, StageTech ADC shootout.


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## Justin_Time

Pharmaboy said:


> (the following is not based on theory or measurements...just listening)
> 
> Some amps, even ones without a dramatic/noticeable sonic signature, seem to impose their sound on headphones. Out of the 5 solid state amps I have,  only 1 seems to do this at all: the Audio GD SA-31SE....
> 
> ...






Pharmaboy said:


> (the following is not based on theory or measurements...just listening)
> 
> Some amps, even ones without a dramatic/noticeable sonic signature, seem to impose their sound on headphones. Out of the 5 solid state amps I have,  only 1 seems to do this at all: the Audio GD SA-31SE. Despite its considerable power (10 wpc), this amp has a self-effacing, somewhat muted sound:  relatively quiet, not big in dynamics, down-the-middle-bass, and (best quality) black background + lots of space between notes (great for percussion). Out of the 8-10 headphones I've tried on this amp, all but 1 _didn't _sound (to at least some extent) more or less what I just described.
> 
> ...



I have no experience with the Audio GD, so I can’t comment on that.

But I agree with your description of the “sound”of the V281 completely.

On a related topic, I do not believe that an audio equipment can be completely transparent, or not "have a sound" of its own.  That is just a dream some of us have.  If a simple cable can change the sound of headphones--we all have experienced that--then a complicated equipment like an amp will certainly add a sound,.More accurately, a piece of equipment within a system will INTERACT with that system to produce a specific sound.  Because of that, it is very hard to isolate just the "sound" of a piece of equipment. But with a large number of systems, a lot of painstaking comparison and a healthy dose of patience, the persistent sound of an particular amp or HP can be recognized. 

The V281 consistently produces a tighter, more dynamic bass than the GS-X Mk2 and the Apex Teton.  Both amps have very fast transient attacks with minimal overshoots, but the GS-X Mk2 has a slightly slower decay which leads to a euphonic mid-range and rather sweet treble--the GS-X Mk2 is surprisingly similar to a tube amp in that respect but with much tighter bass.  If the V281 has a small shortcoming--and I am being very picky here--it is in the treble. With HP like the HD-800S or the Grado PS2000, the sound can be slightly edgy sometimes. The GS-X Mk2 and Apex Teton (and the Woo WA5 as well) do not show that same tendency.  Overall, the V281 holds its own among the big boys costing a lot more and represents very good value--I cannot believe I said that about a $2900 head-amp!


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## Pharmaboy

"If the V281 has a small shortcoming--and I am being very picky here--it is in the treble. With HP like the HD-800S or the Grado PS2000, the sound can be slightly edgy sometimes."

I think you're right. The slight warmth I hear in this amp is from the midrange on down; above that the V281 is rather neutral. 

I don't often hear that edginess, no doubt because I'm treble averse, so headphones I acquire tend to lack the sharp upper midrange & treble that would spotlight that in an amp.

BTW, my amp w/a "family resemblance" to the V281 (Lake People G109-A) is not edgy in the treble at all. It manages to be slightly warm, yet relatively  level across frequencies. I've never heard a headphone sound bad on it. But its bass & dynamics, while very good, don't match the V281.


----------



## musicmaker

Pharmaboy said:


> (the following is not based on theory or measurements...just listening)
> 
> Some amps, even ones without a dramatic/noticeable sonic signature, seem to impose their sound on headphones. Out of the 5 solid state amps I have,  only 1 seems to do this at all: the Audio GD SA-31SE. Despite its considerable power (10 wpc), this amp has a self-effacing, somewhat muted sound:  relatively quiet, not big in dynamics, down-the-middle-bass, and (best quality) black background + lots of space between notes (great for percussion). Out of the 8-10 headphones I've tried on this amp, all but 1 _didn't _sound (to at least some extent) more or less what I just described.
> 
> ...



Agree with almost everything except soundstage. In my tests, I did not hear the V281 as having a big soundstage. In fact it was smaller compared to my GS-X mk2 and Moon 430HA. Imaging was great and precise. To me imaging is more important than perceived soundstage in a headphone.


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## zhgutov (Apr 16, 2018)

musicmaker said:


> Agree with almost everything except soundstage. In my tests, I did not hear the V281 as having a big soundstage. In fact it was smaller compared to my GS-X mk2 and Moon 430HA. Imaging was great and precise. To me imaging is more important than perceived soundstage in a headphone.


This is another interesting thing. I found that there are converters which can do the following two things.
One thing is artificially enlarged soundstage (this was really surprising, I was thinking this is directly related to the converter quality, and the fake soundstage is more related to the headphones).
Another thing is lack/altering of finest/deep details, microtextures (I cannot find the right word here), which may increase the instrument separation, and make the individual instruments more pronounced.
But they are not closer to original. And the indirect sign of the altered signal (if there is no reference) may be found in imaging (in the meaning of imaginable depth, not only positioning).

Unfortunately, I cannot imagine a good test, which can show such things for the amps (don't know how to get the reference for sure), but I think this is even more related to the amps than to the DACs and ADCs.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> This is another interesting thing. I found that there are converters which can do the following two things.
> One thing is artificially enlarged soundstage (this was really surprising, I was thinking this is directly related to the converter quality, and the fake soundstage is more related to the headphones).
> Another thing is lack/altering of finest/deep details, microtextures (I cannot find the right word here), which may increase the instrument separation, and make the individual instruments more pronounced.
> But they are not closer to original. And the indirect sign of the altered signal (if there is no reference) may be found in imaging (in the meaning of imaginable depth, not only positioning).
> ...



Yes--both DACs & amps can exaggerate soundstage (in somewhat different ways). "Microtexture" is a great observation (ie, very small amplitude--yet critically important--spatial cues embedded in the audio signal). And of course, headphones can use cup resonance & sound attenuation/reinforcement materials to directly alter soundstage.

I like that you continue to think of testing to reveal some of these really small (but important) sonic events. 

Sadly, testing usually lags behind other innovations in audio. Good example: early digital sound. It measured as perfect, but usually sounded terrible. The measurement-obsessed "objectivists" went nuts on people like me, who heard this & openly talked about it ("bit are bits!" "measurements don't lie!" "your ears don't have the resolution of an oscilloscope"). Of course, later all kinds of reasons were found to explain why early digital sounded bad (crappy analog/output sections; brick-wall filters required w/16-bit conversion; jitter; delta-sigma vs multibit; etc).


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## zhgutov (Apr 16, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> I like that you continue to think of testing to reveal some of these really small (but important) sonic events.
> 
> Sadly, testing usually lags behind other innovations in audio. Good example: early digital sound. It measured as perfect, but usually sounded terrible. The measurement-obsessed "objectivists" went nuts on people like me, who heard this & openly talked about it ("bit are bits!" "measurements don't lie!" "your ears don't have the resolution of an oscilloscope"). Of course, later all kinds of reasons were found to explain why early digital sounded bad (crappy analog/output sections; brick-wall filters required w/16-bit conversion; jitter; delta-sigma vs multibit; etc).


Yeah, this is like any theory. It is based on observations anyway, and follows the reality.
But both worlds have their own strengths. I like to use them all (those to which I am able to pay attention).

Moreover, I like to listen to some subjectively biased gear, they may sound very cool.
But for some reason I notice such things after the time, and because they usually remain the same, I want to change the corresponding gear finally.
Well, maybe this is what all audiophiles from the subjectivists camp are usually do 

This approach reminds me the way of the mastering engineers (or maybe I think they work this way).
They have transparent equipment to control the result, and they have tons of devices and plugins, which may be used to color/adjust the sound.
This is where the both worlds crosses, in my opinion.
Maybe I should try such thing, but I don't know how to start at the present time.


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## Pharmaboy

musicmaker said:


> Agree with almost everything except soundstage. In my tests, I did not hear the V281 as having a big soundstage. In fact it was smaller compared to my GS-X mk2 and Moon 430HA. Imaging was great and precise. To me imaging is more important than perceived soundstage in a headphone.



Thought-provoking comment...it seems accurate, but I'll have to do some quality listening to check.

This makes me realize I only hear soundstaging in a general way (ie, as good, bad, or indifferent)--but haven't distinguished between the space vs imaging. Perhaps because I don't own reference HPs (ie, HD800) that can expose these fine points clearly. I also don't listen to as much classical music on headphones as I should; those recordings often have a great deal of spatial information.

I had this "space vs image" thing totally mapped out w/speakers, but really haven't done so w/headphones. Easier to focus on frequencies...more to hear & learn.


----------



## Justin_Time

Pharmaboy said:


> Yes--both DACs & amps can exaggerate soundstage (in somewhat different ways). "Microtexture" is a great observation (ie, very small amplitude--yet critically important--spatial cues embedded in the audio signal). And of course, headphones can use cup resonance & sound attenuation/reinforcement materials to directly alter soundstage.
> 
> I like that you continue to think of testing to reveal some of these really small (but important) sonic events.
> 
> Sadly, testing usually lags behind other innovations in audio. Good example: early digital sound. It measured as perfect, but usually sounded terrible. The measurement-obsessed "objectivists" went nuts on people like me, who heard this & openly talked about it ("bit are bits!" "measurements don't lie!" "your ears don't have the resolution of an oscilloscope"). Of course, later all kinds of reasons were found to explain why early digital sounded bad (crappy analog/output sections; brick-wall filters required w/16-bit conversion; jitter; delta-sigma vs multibit; etc).




You made many good points that I agree with wholeheartedly.

In the scientific community where I work, we understand the limitations of the numerical (digital) approach, digitizing mathematical equations. There are always small numerical errors that can propagate non-linearly and lead to the wrong results in unexpected areas—we call some of these errors numerical dispersion.

Yes, as you mentioned, dearly CD could not live up to the hype—I agree, they did sounded terrible—and the hype continues even to these days about the perfection of things digital.  As we learn more about any new advanced technology, we begin to understand the new problems and correct them as we go. The challenge is not what we know, understand and can measure, or what we don’t know, but what we don’t know what we don’t know—the unknown unknown to quote Donald Rumsfeld. We can measure only what we want and know how to measure but not what we do not suspect—or even willing to admit—exists.

In short, it would be helpful to be just a little more humble about what we can understand and measure, and thus encourage continuously improvement of  things as we go. Back to the V281, after different combinations of sources, DAC, amps and HPs, and at the risk of antagonizing some folks here, I firmly believe that there is still a small inherent SS edginess or harshness (that may be too strongg a word) with the V281;that can be mitigated with HP like the Utopia, in combination with a DAC with tube analog section like the ModWright Oppo 205, or with analog source And a tube phono stage and preamp. But that is usually what we do with any system, matching equipments to take advantage of their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.


----------



## Arnaldo (Apr 18, 2018)

Justin_Time said:


> ... Back to the V281, after different combinations of sources, DAC, amps and HPs, and at the risk of antagonizing some folks here, I firmly believe that there is still a small inherent SS edginess or harshness (that may be too strongg a word) with the V281;that can be mitigated with HP like the Utopia, in combination with a DAC with tube analog section like the ModWright Oppo 205, or with analog source And a tube phono stage and preamp. But that is usually what we do with any system, matching equipments to take advantage of their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.



Pairing the V281 with the Utopia does indeed produce a powerful and warm sound. So much so that I've been considering silver cables with the intent of introducing a bit of "SS edginess" into mix. Rather than "harshness," I associate good solid-state amps - such as the V281 - with resolution and articulation, as opposed to tube-induced euphonic distortion anywhere in the audio chain.


----------



## Justin_Time

Arnaldo said:


> Pairing the V281 with the Utopia does indeed produce a powerful and warm sound. So much so that I've been investigating aftermarket silver cables with the intent of introducing a bit of "SS edginess" into mix. Rather than "harshness," I associate good solid-state amps - such as the V281 - with resolution and articulation, as opposed to tube-induced euphonic distortion anywhere in the audio chain.



I have done it. I used a pair of silver Litz cables.  I get more presence in the voice, more detail and a slight shimmer in the treble but no more edginess or harshness from the Utopia than I got from the stock cables.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Arnaldo said:


> Pairing the V281 with the Utopia does indeed produce a powerful and warm sound. So much so that I've been investigating aftermarket silver cables with the intent of introducing a bit of "SS edginess" into mix. Rather than "harshness," I associate good solid-state amps - such as the V281 - with resolution and articulation, as opposed to tube-induced euphonic distortion anywhere in the audio chain.



I wouldn't guess the Utopia + V281 would be a great match (never heard Utopia...only Focal & Clear).

Then again, the V281 would certainly pound the Utopia's entire frequency range below, say, upper midrange, with lots of impact & dynamics. If the result was slightly bringing all that up vs treble, it might = warmth. 

This thing called "warmth," at least in SS amps, is pretty complicated, covering synergies/interactions of all kinds. It need not be a simple "warm amp colors ever signal put through it" thing at all. In fact, sometimes quite the opposite. 

Even my warmest SS amp, the Liquid Carbon, sometimes breaks rank w/its own coloration and drives this or that HP spectacularly well--not causing it be even more warm, but instead giving it better bass, or dynamics, or soundstage, or some combination.


----------



## Arnaldo (Apr 18, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> I wouldn't guess the Utopia + V281 would be a great match (never heard Utopia...only Focal & Clear).
> 
> Then again, the V281 would certainly pound the Utopia's entire frequency range below, say, upper midrange, with lots of impact & dynamics. If the result was slightly bringing all that up vs treble, it might = warmth.
> 
> ...



In comparison to my old Staxes' silvery tone, I'd define the V281/Utopia's warmth as a golden hue, aided by (1) foreground precision, (2) background presence, and (3) control throughout the audio spectrum. And while both soundstage about the same in terms of width, the dynamic-duo's definitely expands it deeper than the stats. I do miss the electrostatic's delicacy though...


----------



## Fegefeuer

I have a LCD-2C in the house and currently listening in SE Mode. While the Audeze bass quality is clearly to be heard the headphone overall isn't exciting or let's say wowing me, it has its own attractive characteristics though. Kinda expected it. The HD800 Superdupont modded running balanced on the V281 clearly spoilt me. HD 800 technicalites are unmatched for the Audeze except in a few areas. Subbass quality (it doesn't roll off like the HD 800 and remains extremely low in distortion) for instance and the fact that the SDR improves the 6khz problem but doesn't eliminate it as much as the HD800S. I don't EQ at all and don't want to outside of the PC.

However the Audeze has its own strengths. Less fatiguing overall when unEQed and in comparison a more relaxing sound, though being that dark as its father.
Kinda surprised how open they sound, definitely didn't sound that open years ago, though those were the LCD-2 pre fazor. Still I don't believe in such a drastic change between the original and this derivate. My gear changed tremendously though over the years. That's the deciding factor. 

Now I'll be listening in SE mode until I get a XLR cable to make the V281 run in Be(a)st Mode and judge that headphone properly.

I built myself a transport btw to get away from my PC when I'm not watching a movie at night or playing games and it was worth it. No more fan noise, cleaner overall.

RBPI3+ALLO DigiOne + iPower LPS -> BNC -> DAC and SPDIF into my Denon AVR.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Fegefeuer said:


> I have a LCD-2C in the house and currently listening in SE Mode. While the Audeze bass quality is clearly to be heard the headphone overall isn't exciting or let's say wowing me, it has its own attractive characteristics though. Kinda expected it. The HD800 Superdupont modded running balanced on the V281 clearly spoilt me. HD 800 technicalites are unmatched for the Audeze except in a few areas. Subbass quality (it doesn't roll off like the HD 800 and remains extremely low in distortion) for instance and the fact that the SDR improves the 6khz problem but doesn't eliminate it as much as the HD800S. I don't EQ at all and don't want to outside of the PC.
> 
> However the Audeze has its own strengths. Less fatiguing overall when unEQed and in comparison a more relaxing sound, though being that dark as its father.
> Kinda surprised how open they sound, definitely didn't sound that open years ago, though those were the LCD-2 pre fazor. Still I don't believe in such a drastic change between the original and this derivate. My gear changed tremendously though over the years. That's the deciding factor.
> ...



Recommend that you withhold judgement on your LCDs until you can listen balanced.  There have been several posts here suggesting that the v281 (and 280 of course) are 'designed for balanced operation' and that SE performance is not up to the same standard.

Note I'm not suggesting that 'balanced is better', only that the v281 design favors balanced performance over SE performance.


----------



## Fegefeuer

That's what I was saying though. 



Fegefeuer said:


> Now I'll be listening in SE mode until I get a XLR cable to make the V281 run in Be(a)st Mode and judge that headphone properly.



V281 is always best when balanced.


----------



## armymanhaha

I've had the stock V281 for a while now. I was recently able to borrow a stepped relay v281 and this is the first time I am able to use a device with stepped relay.

I know about the pops the switches make inside the chassis when turning the knob. However I don't know if that pop is supposed to be okay to be heard inside the headphones, or in my case since I also use it as a preamp to my dual mono blocks, I hear the pops on the speakers too when changing levels. So is this normal?


----------



## Pharmaboy

armymanhaha said:


> I've had the stock V281 for a while now. I was recently able to borrow a stepped relay v281 and this is the first time I am able to use a device with stepped relay.
> 
> I know about the pops the switches make inside the chassis when turning the knob. However I don't know if that pop is supposed to be okay to be heard inside the headphones, or in my case since I also use it as a preamp to my dual mono blocks, I hear the pops on the speakers too when changing levels. So is this normal?



yup

maybe it's just my stepped V281 (which may need service), but I get all kinds of bizarre things happening in lower 1/4 of the dial's range. I press the remote once/quickly, and get a huge volume jump (up or down, depending on what I'm trying to do). Press it again, no change in volume. 

However, on those occasions where I can get volume up into the middle 1/3 of the pot's range (this is w/both HP & line dip switches set to -14 dB), it seems to smooth out a lot.


----------



## Justin_Time

armymanhaha said:


> I've had the stock V281 for a while now. I was recently able to borrow a stepped relay v281 and this is the first time I am able to use a device with stepped relay.
> 
> I know about the pops the switches make inside the chassis when turning the knob. However I don't know if that pop is supposed to be okay to be heard inside the headphones, or in my case since I also use it as a preamp to my dual mono blocks, I hear the pops on the speakers too when changing levels. So is this normal?



Yes. To get perfect balance when the volume is changed, they selected a specific design that makes the noise when the volume is changed.

To get more information, read the write-up about the V281 and that particular volume pot in their website (Lake People).


----------



## musicmaker

My headamp GS-X and Moon 430HA also give me perfectly balanced LR channels but are completely noiseless from the headphone while adjusting.


----------



## zhgutov

musicmaker said:


> My headamp GS-X and Moon 430HA also give me perfectly balanced LR channels but are completely noiseless from the headphone while adjusting.


You have 24 steps only with the DACT attenuator, right?


----------



## musicmaker

Yes correct. 
The moon 430ha’s evol2 control has 530 steps i believe. 
No cracks and pops turning either


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## zhgutov (May 1, 2018)

musicmaker said:


> The moon 430ha’s evol2 control has 530 steps i believe.


Oh, I missed 430ha. evol2 - is it electronic volume control? As I know, they don't like such solution.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705318/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced/315#post_10807716
_"The next idea is the electronical attenuation.
There are some older approaches like the VCA (voltage controlled attenuator) which work quite fine as an attenuator but have high amounts of distortion.
The better approach is the DCA (digital controlled attenuator), offering 128 or 256 steps of very exact attenuation with good crosstalk. But unfortunately there is still some negative influence on the signal …"_

This may be interesting to measure such things. Personally I don't have any kind of stepped volume control.
Just simple ALPS RK27 with impedance matching after it. It has 0.5 dB tolerance from 10-11 o'clock and up.
And it has ~1 dB tolerance from 9 o'clock.
IMO, this is enough for listening when we are talking about the whole spectrum imbalance.
I cannot hear negative effect of that channel mismatch.
I think they have some thoughts about the sound quality, that's why they use resistors with relay control.
Channel imbalance is easily measurable thing, but has minor effect.
Most headphones have greater channel imbalance (and it affects the spectrum partially!), and the music itself is often mixed/recorded with imbalance too.
This channel imbalance does not affect the relative imbalance inside the mix/recording (which is more important thing).
So, "cracks and pops" while changing the volume level is the cost of (probably) better sound quality.


----------



## Pharmaboy

"So, "cracks and pops" while changing the volume level is the cost of (probably) better sound quality."

That pretty well sums up the V281+stepped pot experience...

A couple years ago I owned the big Burson Soloist--the amp/preamp version w/4wpc power. It has a miserable 21 step pot...impossible to find the right volume during low- to medium-volume listening. After a lot of back & forth, I obtained a specially configured Alps RC27 from Burson (configured to fit the weird wiring layout of this device). I found it immediately better than the old stepped pot. That is to say, the sound was no better or worse (hard to be sure given vagaries of sonic memory)--but the useability of the amp was *greatly* improved (ended up selling it, regardless).

The V281 is a very different animal, though. I'm not about to "go backwards" by downgrading to a non-stepped pot. Even w/the PITA popping & volume issues, this amp sounds so good that I'm not tempted to mess with it...


----------



## musicmaker

zhgutov said:


> So, "cracks and pops" while changing the volume level is the cost of (probably) better sound quality.



Probably, being the keyword there. I'm not comparing this with a simple alps pot. Instead I am comparing it with the stepped attenuator of the GS-X and the unique volume control of the Moon 430HA. If there are advantages to the v281's volume control compared to these, it probably exists only on paper and I cannot hear it. All these amps are TOTL with precise channel balancing. But the cracks and pops is an annoyance to me. Especially with a premium amp in this price bracket.


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## zhgutov (May 1, 2018)

musicmaker said:


> it probably exists only on paper and I cannot hear it


Yes, this thing is hard to check. Especially taking in account the people "subjectivity" in audiophile world (maybe even just subjectivity, because we are not a measurement instruments).
And taking in account probably more difference between these amps because of other factors.
Personally, I cannot hear the difference between digital attenuation (which is perfect if the DAC has good linearity) and ALPS pot.
But maybe the ALPS pot is the bottleneck itself (it cannot be bypassed for the headphones), and I can get something (slightly?) better with the relay control. Fortunately, there is US4+ on horizon.

What volume pot range do you use? If I understand this correctly, it should produce louder cracks and pops when you use it in "low" range (9 o'clock of less, or something like that).


----------



## musicmaker

I dont have my V281 anymore. But it was into the 12 clock range. Depends on gain setting as well.


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## zhgutov

Hmm.. does anyone have ADC here? It is interesting to hear the effect. Can anyone record the music fragment from line out in 96 kHz, for example, and put the link here?


----------



## jerick70

Interesting discussion on the stepped attenuator. I purchased a used V281 and installed the attenuator upgrade. Very nice improvement in sound to my ears.


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## musicmaker (May 3, 2018)

What was the improvement you heard with the stepped vs the regular volume pot ?


----------



## ra990

jerick70 said:


> Interesting discussion on the stepped attenuator. I purchased a used V281 and installed the attenuator upgrade. Very nice improvement in sound to my ears.


Can you elaborate on the differences? I used to have a fully loaded V281 with the stepped attenuator and now I have a base model. Don't really notice any difference, but I'm not A/Bing. Actually might even prefer the feel and no-noise factor of the alps control.


----------



## Justin_Time

jerick70 said:


> Interesting discussion on the stepped attenuator. I purchased a used V281 and installed the attenuator upgrade. Very nice improvement in sound to my ears.



Thank you for sharing your positive experience with the V281stepmattenuator.

Since the introduction of their first headphone amp, these nice Lake People who design the Violectric series seem to be careful at providing a step improvement for each new model or option they offered. I am sure they were well aware of the noise of the step,attenuators so this option must add a sufficient sound improvement to balance out its shortcoming.  

I am glad you were in a position to find out the sonic improvement. I bought the V281 with the stepmattenuator option already in so it would be hard for me to do the reverse .  Actually, the little noise does not bother me in the least bit since it is not an indication of defect or poor quality. And I seldom mess around with the volume.  I set it once and often listen to the whole symphony without messing with it again.  I am also used to the clicks and pop of LP so this is no big deal.

While the V281 has just a slight remnant of the so called transistor sound—a touch of hardness in the high frequencies than can lead to fatigue in long listening—it does have an unusual warmth in the midrange (for a SS design) that pleasantly balance out the slightly analytical sound of the HD800S.  In this regard, the V281 works better than the GS-X Mk2 with the HD800S. The reverse is true with the Utopia , which does not need more warmth.

Overall, I think the V281 is a very successful design and you just helped confirm that the step-attenuator was a good option.


----------



## zhgutov (May 3, 2018)

Actually, I like the idea of the volume/gain control which is used in Lake People F355.


 

This device has coarse stepped attenuator (6 dB per step), and fine attenuator (1 dB per step).
Such implementation cannot be found in any headphone amp (I don't know any), so this may be slightly unusual.
But V281 and upcoming US4+ have balance control, which may be (probably) replaced with the fine attenuator.
Moreover, US4 has no balance control, so this looks like the possible option.
P.S. This is just an idea, which I personally like


----------



## Fegefeuer

Will you be in Munich, zghutov?


----------



## zhgutov

Unfortunately, not this year. Sad thing, I really wanted to be there.


----------



## andromeda1954

ra990 said:


> Can you elaborate on the differences? I used to have a fully loaded V281 with the stepped attenuator and now I have a base model. Don't really notice any difference, but I'm not A/Bing. Actually might even prefer the feel and no-noise factor of the alps control.


I also didn’t hear any difference in sound between the V281 with the stepped attenuator and the basic one .I had both for about a week to compare .I decided to keep the basic V281 because I did not need a remote control . If I would have heard a improvement in sound quality, I would have kept the one with the stepped attenuator for shure


----------



## Fegefeuer

zhgutov said:


> Unfortunately, not this year. Sad thing, I really wanted to be there.



ah, that's a pity. Next year then.


----------



## Justin_Time

andromeda1954 said:


> I also didn’t hear any difference in sound between the V281 with the stepped attenuator and the basic one .I had both for about a week to compare .I decided to keep the basic V281 because I did not need a remote control . If I would have heard a improvement in sound quality, I would have kept the one with the stepped attenuator for shure



I wish I had the same opportunity to own both and compare.  

Could you elaborate a little on the associated components you used while comparing the two versions? Especially the headphones and the DAC?

Thanks!


----------



## jerick70 (May 3, 2018)

ra990 said:


> Can you elaborate on the differences? I used to have a fully loaded V281 with the stepped attenuator and now I have a base model. Don't really notice any difference, but I'm not A/Bing. Actually might even prefer the feel and no-noise factor of the alps control.


@musicmaker I'm replying to you too.  I haven't figured out how to double quote in replies....

I think the stepped volume control makes a HUGE difference in my listening case. The sound is more refined, focused, balanced, and revealing.  There is a microscopes view into the micro detail that wasn't there previously.  I have a pair of Audeze LCD-3s that were unlistenable on the V281, at times, with the basic volume control.  The sound was bloated and muddy at times.  After installing the stepped attenuator the 3s SING!!!!!  I'm really impressed.  Arthur from Violectric told me that the results very from person to person and not to expect night and day changes.  IMO the upgrade brought the V281 to another level.

FYI I did a faceplate and the stepped volume control upgrade myself.  Very easy and strait forward upgrade.


----------



## andromeda1954

Justin_Time said:


> I wish I had the same opportunity to own both and compare.
> 
> Could you elaborate a little on the associated components you used while comparing the two versions? Especially the headphones and the DAC?
> 
> Thanks!


I used the Sennheiser HD800S with Cardas clear cable and the Violectric connected by a Cardas Clear Beyond interconnect to a Chord Qutest  Dac. Ifi Audio Gemini Dual Headed usb cable ,Ifi  Audio iUSB micro 3.0 ,Audio Quest Diamond USB cable. Mac Computer . IPad Pro, IPhone X.


----------



## ra990

jerick70 said:


> @musicmaker I'm replying to you too.  I haven't figured out how to double quote in replies....
> 
> I think the stepped volume control makes a HUGE difference in my listening case. The sound is more refined, focused, balanced, and revealing.  There is a microscopes view into the micro detail that wasn't there previously.  I have a pair of Audeze LCD-3s that were unlistenable on the V281, at times, with the basic volume control.  The sound was bloated and muddy at times.  After installing the stepped attenuator the 3s SING!!!!!  I'm really impressed.  Arthur from Violectric told me that the results very from person to person and not to expect night and day changes.  IMO the upgrade brought the V281 to another level.
> 
> FYI I did a faceplate and the stepped volume control upgrade myself.  Very easy and strait forward upgrade.


Thanks for the info. Sounds like you saw a much greater benefit than you should have with a volume control upgrade. If anything, I would expect better stereo image due to less crosstalk, more even balance, etc. But for the amp to go from "bloated and muddy" to your headphones now singing is a bit much for just a volume control upgrade. It's not like the amplification stage changed at all. Maybe there was something wrong with your amp before that got fixed when you did the volume control upgrade.


----------



## jerick70

Anything is possible. The upgrade was just unplugging the old ribbon cables and plugging in the new cables, and of course replacing the faceplate and old volume control. The difference is definitly there. I asked Violectric about it and they didn't think it was an issue with the unit.  They said that some people see this change with the upgrade. I'm glad the money was well spent.


----------



## ra990

jerick70 said:


> Anything is possible. The upgrade was just unplugging the old ribbon cables and plugging in the new cables, and of course replacing the faceplate and old volume control. The difference is definitly there. I asked Violectric about it and they didn't think it was an issue with the unit.  They said that some people see this change with the upgrade. I'm glad the money was well spent.


Cool, I'm glad it was a worthy upgrade for you. Was it difficult to do by yourself or pretty straight forward?


----------



## jerick70 (May 3, 2018)

ra990 said:


> Cool, I'm glad it was a worthy upgrade for you. Was it difficult to do by yourself or pretty straight forward?


The most difficult part for my install was getting the volume and balance knobs centered so the indicator cut matched the correct adjustment.  The other thing that throws a curve ball into the install is drilling out the volume control hole on the face plate to fit the new volume control.  I didn't have to do that because I upgraded the face plate and it was already done.  Other than those two items it is very simple and strait forward.

Remove the top of the unit -> Remove ribbon cable connections from volume control to mainboard on main board end-> Remove the face plate -> Remove volume and balance knobs -> Detach old volume control (Just a few screws) from face plate -> Drill the volume control hole on face plate larger -> Install new volume control (Pretty much the same as when removing old control but with a few more ribbon cables) -> Test remote control

I would say this is a low skill DIY project.


----------



## zhgutov

ra990 said:


> I would expect better stereo image due to less crosstalk


Standard volume control has excellent crosstalk (taken through line out post):



(this measurements are limited by the noise floor primarily)

I think the crosstalk (which is worse under the load, and this is not because of the volume control)
does not affect the stereo image when it is below -60 dB (probably even -40 dB).

Better stereo image is caused by something else.


----------



## jerick70

zhgutov said:


> Standard volume control has excellent crosstalk (taken through line out post):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Intriguing.  I'm not an expert with audio measurements, but would like to be.  What do you think we can measure to track down the changes I'm hearing between volume controls?  I imagine this being a really interesting experiment.


----------



## Justin_Time

zhgutov said:


> Standard volume control has excellent crosstalk (taken through line out post):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If as you said crosstalk is not part of the benefit, would you care to speculate as to why these Lake People went through the trouble of offering a rather expensive option with the potential—now a reality for some—of bothering customers with irritating noises?

From a purely a layman viewpoint, I thought that intuitively the small and variable  differences between the left and right would cause the center image to slightly shift, which would be audible. But I fully realize that intuition can be completely wrong.

Any explanation to shed more light on the benefit or lack thereof these relay attenuators would be much appreciated.


----------



## zhgutov (May 3, 2018)

jerick70 said:


> Intriguing.  I'm not an expert with audio measurements, but would like to be.  What do you think we can measure to track down the changes I'm hearing between volume controls?  I imagine this being a really interesting experiment.


Maybe the difference in THD and IMD between the measurement setup itself (!) and the whole setup with the V281 (in my case it makes distortion _very slightly_ higher, 2nd harmonic primarily).
Maybe the difference in phase over frequency, but in the case of relay volume control this may be different for line out and phones out.
Maybe something else... Everything which may show the difference, I suppose. It is possible to produce more interesting custom test signals.

All this may show the difference, but it is possible, that you will not find anything meaningful in such measurements.

Maybe it is even better to make "loopback" recording with the different music, match the volume and compare the following using the different playback systems:
- original
- measurement system only
- standard line out
- relay line out
- standard phones out with no load
- relay phones out with no load

This should be working, because the volume control is situated before the output stages (and this is easy to use in A/B comparison when you have only one V281).
But probably you need very transparent setup to estimate the difference, not only to hear it is different.

But I don't have relay volume control option to do such experiment.



Justin_Time said:


> From a purely a layman viewpoint, I thought that intuitively the small and variable  differences between the left and right would cause the center image to slightly shift, which would be audible. But I fully realize that intuition can be completely wrong.


This is not about crosstalk, this is about channel imbalance. This may be useful in mastering tasks.
This can make you happy because you know for sure that you have 0.1 dB tolerance.
This can make me happy, I want US4+, not US4. And I don't care about possible noise during the volume adjustment. But this is me.
This is what I think does not have a negative effect on the sound quality in the given range (1 dB), but I don't know about other people, maybe somebody can hear that and consider the effect as negative.



Justin_Time said:


> If as you said crosstalk is not part of the benefit, would you care to speculate as to why these Lake People went through the trouble of offering a rather expensive option with the potential—now a reality for some—of bothering customers with irritating noises?
> 
> Any explanation to shed more light on the benefit or lack thereof these relay attenuators would be much appreciated.



It is possible that the relay volume control has even better crosstalk. Why not?
But I think the crosstalk importance is overestimated (by the community) when we are talking about such numbers, when the crosstalk is flat over the frequency range, and when its phase is flat too.

The crosstalk is not the only thing!

Just for example, there is RS05 (clock) which makes my V800 (DAC) better sounding in terms of imaging/depth.
This is easy to hear, but it is really hard to see in measurements clearly. Nothing wrong with that.
P.S. I'm talking not about the effect of the resampling vs bad source. Particularly this is very easy to see in measurements.


----------



## zhgutov (May 4, 2018)

Well, after this discussion I found myself measuring this amp 

Looks like the crosstalk becomes worse when the volume (standard RK27) is turned down.




The whole graph for 12 o'clock is higher because I reached the limits of my ADC (noise floor).
The most interesting thing is the 3 kHz .. 20 kHz range. This is where some degradation happens.
Pre and post look pretty similar here when the volume set to maximum.

Another thing is... let it be SMPTE (IMD).




Pre accurately repeats the harmonics.
Post shows slightly higher second harmonic.
The difference in THD looks very similar.

So, there is some room for improvements, at least according to that measurements.
The most interesting thing is to compare that (Post) with the relay volume control.

Maybe there is something else, what can be measured too.
And this is still interesting, what exactly we can hear.


----------



## ra990

zhgutov said:


> Well, after this discussion I found myself measuring this amp


Really interesting zhgutov! That makes a lot of sense and is what I would expect. Otherwise, they wouldn't offer a superior volume control option that would improve on this at very low volumes. The relay stepped attenuation always has that benefit, but at what point on the base volume control do these issues basically become negligible? I normally listen to it around the 12 o'clock position and at that point the volume control should result in pretty good numbers, I would expect.


----------



## zhgutov (May 5, 2018)

ra990 said:


> Really interesting zhgutov! That makes a lot of sense and is what I would expect. Otherwise, they wouldn't offer a superior volume control option that would improve on this at very low volumes. The relay stepped attenuation always has that benefit, but at what point on the base volume control do these issues basically become negligible? I normally listen to it around the 12 o'clock position and at that point the volume control should result in pretty good numbers, I would expect.


Ha! Thank you for asking 

This looks like the ALPS pot nonlinearity. I will show my case here, but you can have different results.
This nonlinearity exists in my case between 11 and 4 o'clock.
This is my own test signal, but it is very similar to the signal which is used in RMAA for the crosstalk test.
Green is signal, blue is crosstalk. It is slightly different for Left and Right channels, but the whole picture remains the same.

Max level:




4 o'clock:




12 o'clock (your favorite):




11 o'clock:




10 o'clock:




There is even more interesting thing. The graphs shown above are not using the whole digital range.
I will show three volume pot positions which are close to each other.
Normally, the crosstalk of V800 > RS04 is below -120 dB at 20 kHz.
Blue is signal, green is crosstalk here.

Max level:




4.5 o'clock (two detents lower):




4 o'clock (another two detents):




What else can we expect from the ALPS RK27?

But actually I think, that the levels of this crosstalk (in my case) are negligible.
Despite that, now I want to upgrade to the relay option more.


----------



## ra990 (May 5, 2018)

zhgutov said:


> Ha! Thank you for asking


That's amazing, thanks for running these tests! Can you elaborate on the results? It looks to me like there is the least amount of crosstalk at the 4.5-max volume setting, is that correct?


----------



## zhgutov (May 5, 2018)

ra990 said:


> Can you elaborate on the results? It looks to me like there is the least amount of crosstalk at the max volume setting, is that correct?


Yes, this is true in my case. This is likely to be the same in your case too.
But the crosstalk becomes lower not only at the maximum level.
It becomes lower when the volume is below 11 o'clock (again, _in my case_).


----------



## fdg

@ zhgutov (Dimitry) and the measurements.

Crosstalk is always measured by every manufacturer with the volume potentiometer fully open (right or CW position).
As a matter of facts and by design a potentiometer will drive the signal to high(er) impedance state
– thus makes the signals more sensitive to hum, noise, the other channel(s) - when turned lower (to the left, CCW).
Also, the signal traces to the next stage will suffer from these higher impedances.

This is one of the reasons why passive attenuators will not make anything better!

There are some measures to lower these negative side effects but you will never totally eliminate them:
1. Chose a potentiometer as big as possible (as long as you can afford it) to achieve some space between the signals.
This is the advantage of the Alps potentiometers RK27, RK40 or RK50.
They are big and have separate chambers for the channels and so have lower side effects compared to
miniature potentiometers like RK16, RK14, RK11 or RK9 and of course the makes of other manufacturers.
2. Design an op-amp as close as possible to the potentiometer acting as a buffer amp to achieve low impedances after the buffer.
3. Chose electronic attenuators instead of mechanical potentiometers. Those will have less crosstalk issues but the sound will suffer.
4. Invest in alternative electronic designs like relay controlled attenuators


----------



## zhgutov (May 5, 2018)

fdg said:


> As a matter of facts and by design a potentiometer will drive the signal to high(er) impedance state


Always wanted to ask about the balance control.
This is another potentiometer (RK27) with the different parameters. This potentiometer exists in the relay-based implementation too.
Is my understanding correct, and it is not in the signal path directly, but its impedance controls the corresponding op-amp which is responsible to make low impedance after the volume control?


----------



## zhgutov (May 5, 2018)

ra990 said:


> It looks to me like there is the least amount of crosstalk at the 4.5-max volume setting, is that correct?


No, I don't think so, not 4.5 o'clock. This looks like there is another source of the crosstalk (maybe this is V800 and RS04, maybe something else), and it has different phase, so they can compensate each other partially.


----------



## depthgrammar

Long shot I know, but wondering if anyone can compare v280/281 to RS 08 with HD650? I realize these amps are probably overkill for the Senns, but I'm looking for optimal performance. Reading opinions about V100 vs V200, it seems many (if not all) felt V100 is a better pairing with HD650 because of its more neutral tuning. I wonder if this carries over to the successors, as RS08 is based on V100 and V281 on V200, or if this is no longer a case with the new amps.


----------



## Pharmaboy

depthgrammar said:


> Long shot I know, but wondering if anyone can compare v280/281 to RS 08 with HD650? I realize these amps are probably overkill for the Senns, but I'm looking for optimal performance. Reading opinions about V100 vs V200, it seems many (if not all) felt V100 is a better pairing with HD650 because of its more neutral tuning. I wonder if this carries over to the successors, as RS08 is based on V100 and V281 on V200, or if this is no longer a case with the new amps.



I can partially reply, for what it's worth. I have a modded pair of HD650s, and have tried them at some length on 4 SS amps, including the V281; 2 of the amps are balanced & 2 are single-ended...and a couple are twice the power of the others.

I actually found relatively little difference in sound on these HPs, amp to amp. Despite one of the amp being described as "warm" (Liquid Carbon) and a couple others being considered "slightly warm" (V281 & G109-A)--I didn't hear any noteworthy differences on tonality, amp to amp. The dynamics & soundstaging might have been a bit better on the V281, which is epic in both category, but differences are still small. Overall, these modded HD650s sounded very good/very interesting on all my SS amps.

Now, when I put them on my only OTL/tube amp, the Woo WA3--that's when the real magic happened. Bass (which had a little mid-bass hump on SS) smoothed out perfectly; mids became richer & more nuanced; highs to die for; detail/resolution everywhere; best soundstaging of all the amps.

I concluded that impedance is the main factor in amping these HPs. Don't get me wrong--they sound really good on low impedance amps. But they sound even better on a high impedance amp.


----------



## fdg

zhgutov said:


> Always wanted to ask about the balance control.
> This is another potentiometer (RK27) with the different parameters. This potentiometer exists in the relay-based implementation too.
> Is my understanding correct, and it is not in the signal path directly, but its impedance controls the corresponding op-amp which is responsible to make low impedance after the volume control?


Normally the balance control is a potentiometer between the left and right channel.
Most time it features a so called tap, a forth contact on the 50 % position.
As the potentiometer is between the channels it will harm the crosstalk.
This in mind we found another way to have a function similar to a balance control.
Also, we don´t wanted a "full" balance control ( left off <-> right off) but only a fraction to
compensate channel missmatches caused by bad recordings, headphones with imbalances, hearing issues.

So, in one channel there is a buffer amp after the volume control (remember: low impedance).
In the other channel there is the buffer amp together with the balance potentiometer which is able to control the signal gain by +/- 3 dB. In doing so also the phase was matched as there is the same amount of amps in the left and right channel.
The effect is similar to a "standard" balance control but without affecting the crosstalk. 
As only one channel is altered, a RK27 potentiometer was not nesseccary from the quality.
The only reason for the RK27 balance control was to have the same feel whilst turning it.


----------



## Justin_Time

Pharmaboy said:


> I can partially reply, for what it's worth. I have a modded pair of HD650s, and have tried them at some length on 4 SS amps, including the V281; 2 of the amps are balanced & 2 are single-ended...and a couple are twice the power of the others.
> 
> I actually found relatively little difference in sound on these HPs, amp to amp. Despite one of the amp being described as "warm" (Liquid Carbon) and a couple others being considered "slightly warm" (V281 & G109-A)--I didn't hear any noteworthy differences on tonality, amp to amp. The dynamics & soundstaging might have been a bit better on the V281, which is epic in both category, but differences are still small. Overall, these modded HD650s sounded very good/very interesting on all my SS amps.
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing your finding.


I arrived at basically similar conclusions after trying several amps.  Both the GS-X Mk2 and the V281 work great with the HD800S.  The former is slightly sweeter at the top end and the latter slighter fuller in the upper bass. But, like in the case of the HD650, the HD800S started to really sing with my OTL amp, the Apex Teton. The high impedance of the OTL seems to be what creates the magic. I wish I had another OTL on hand to compare.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Justin_Time said:


> Thank you for sharing your finding.
> 
> 
> I arrived at basically similar conclusions after trying several amps.  Both the GS-X Mk2 and the V281 work great with the HD800S.  The former is slightly sweeter at the top end and the latter slighter fuller in the upper bass. But, like in the case of the HD650, the HD800S started to really sing with my OTL amp, the Apex Teton. The high impedance of the OTL seems to be what creates the magic. I wish I had another OTL on hand to compare.



This post is interesting. I had no idea what the impedance of the HD800S is, so I looked it up: 300 ohms. And I found INNER FIDELITY measurements that said 374 ohms.

No wonder this headphone sounds good on an OTL amp! That's a pretty high impedance...


----------



## depthgrammar

Thanks for the insight! I'm aware the consensus is OTL tube for HD 650. I've listened extensively out of an old Fisher integrated tube amp and I like the tonality a lot, but i found that i lose much by way of control and detail as compared against my dedicated SS amp (Meier Corda Jazz ff). The Fisher wows you at first, but after extended listening, I prefer the Jazz. However I still find I miss a bit of the fullness/body that the tube amp (and the headphone outs on vintage SS receivers) provides, which I suspect also has to do with their higher output impedance, as you suggest. I guess I'm looking for the best of both worlds, which led me to Violectric/Lake People, as I see these amps described as full bodied and holographic, but with precision and detail. Even the comparatively narrow but well layered/separated soundstage appeals to me, as I'm not generally a fan of exaggerated soundstage. Perhaps a dedicated tube amp would improve upon the performance of the Fisher, but the only comparison I was able to find has the Fisher coming out on top against the Bottlehead Crack, which is the most common recommendation for HD650. So I thought I'd stick with SS. From your observations it sounds like I might not hear a world of difference going from RS08 to V281 - good to know. I might have a chance to listen to a Woo amp locally before deciding, but I'm still leaning towards Lake People.


----------



## Pharmaboy

depthgrammar said:


> Thanks for the insight! I'm aware the consensus is OTL tube for HD 650. I've listened extensively out of an old Fisher integrated tube amp and I like the tonality a lot, but i found that i lose much by way of control and detail as compared against my dedicated SS amp (Meier Corda Jazz ff). The Fisher wows you at first, but after extended listening, I prefer the Jazz. However I still find I miss a bit of the fullness/body that the tube amp (and the headphone outs on vintage SS receivers) provides, which I suspect also has to do with their higher output impedance, as you suggest. I guess I'm looking for the best of both worlds, which led me to Violectric/Lake People, as I see these amps described as full bodied and holographic, but with precision and detail. Even the comparatively narrow but well layered/separated soundstage appeals to me, as I'm not generally a fan of exaggerated soundstage. Perhaps a dedicated tube amp would improve upon the performance of the Fisher, but the only comparison I was able to find has the Fisher coming out on top against the Bottlehead Crack, which is the most common recommendation for HD650. So I thought I'd stick with SS. From your observations it sounds like I might not hear a world of difference going from RS08 to V281 - good to know. I might have a chance to listen to a Woo amp locally before deciding, but I'm still leaning towards Lake People.



I also have (and really love) a Lake People amp, the G109A. It's single-ended, slightly warm, as good an amp as you could hope for (listening to it right now). It managed to sound slightly warm, yet not colored (a neat trick).


----------



## depthgrammar

Pharmaboy said:


> I also have (and really love) a Lake People amp, the G109A. It's single-ended, slightly warm, as good an amp as you could hope for (listening to it right now). It managed to sound slightly warm, yet not colored (a neat trick).



Good to know! So you didn't feel that balanced vs single ended ss made a huge difference with your modded HD650? A lot of people seem to swear by HD650 in balanced mode


----------



## novicez1

Justin_Time said:


> Both the GS-X Mk2 and the V281 work great with the HD800S.  The former is slightly sweeter at the top end and the latter slighter fuller in the upper bass.



I've had the privilege to demo the GSX Mk2 yesterday with a handful of cans and I would say that as an HD800S owner, the GSX mk2 is something you want to steer away from. For HD600 and HD650, they sound amazing. V281 is still my go to amp for HD800S.


----------



## DamageInc77

Pharmaboy said:


> I also have (and really love) a Lake People amp, the G109A. It's single-ended, slightly warm, as good an amp as you could hope for (listening to it right now). It managed to sound slightly warm, yet not colored (a neat trick).


Second. I had the G109P and I now have the RS02. Couldn't tell a difference between them regarding sound, but the RS02 is nice if you want active/passive passthrough or active preamp. Really great little amp.


----------



## chungjun

Not sure if this has been asked before...

If the V281 comes with "remote controlled with 128-step relay attenuator"... the remote is best option to adjust the volume rather than by hand-twisting the knob?


----------



## townes (May 7, 2018)

chungjun said:


> Not sure if this has been asked before...
> 
> If the V281 comes with "remote controlled with 128-step relay attenuator"... the remote is best option to adjust the volume rather than by hand-twisting the knob?


The answer to your question is a clear "no". It's harder to adjust the volume to your liking via the remote control. Pushing the remote volume button a bit too long, results in a volume increase you might not really want.


----------



## Fegefeuer

some photos from the High End Show in Munich

Violectric Tower of Power


----------



## dbq5anlxj

hey guys I want to pull the trigger for one v281 to pair it with my hd800s. I just wonder should I add the dac module in or I better off buy a separate dac instead? I don't have any dedicate dac right now. I mainly use it with my pc (it's not ideal but that what I use most of the time) thanks in advance


----------



## Fegefeuer

What do you use in your PC? Onboard audio? Dedicated Sound Card? Which type?

You could get a Modi Multibit as an interim DAC (as I do, just buy one used) and save up for a bigger DAC or you can indeed use the DAC module until you go bigger.


----------



## dbq5anlxj (May 12, 2018)

Fegefeuer said:


> What do you use in your PC? Onboard audio? Dedicated Sound Card? Which type?
> 
> You could get a Modi Multibit as an interim DAC (as I do, just buy one used) and save up for a bigger DAC or you can indeed use the DAC module until you go bigger.




thanks for the reply. I might go for the same route(get the modi). I only have a dragon fly red on my pc for now. I do have two daps pawgold and ak380. I don't know the ak380 can be a dedicate dac or not. I'll read the instruction. thanks again


----------



## Fegefeuer

dbq5anlxj said:


> thanks for the reply. I think I might go for the same route(get the modi). I only have a dragon fly red on my pc for now. I do have two daps pawgold and ak380. I don't is the ak380 can be a dedicate dac or not. I'll read the instruction. thanks again



From the AK380 manual: 

"*Line Out * Turn Line Out on or off.* Enabling Line Out* and *pressing [Line Out] in the volume control* window *will lock the volume level at maximum* and therefore cannot be adjusted. Do not use earphones with the Line Out feature enabled. Doing so may cause permanent hearing loss."

Just need to buy a proper cable.


----------



## Badas

Fegefeuer said:


> some photos from the High End Show in Munich
> 
> Violectric Tower of Power


Gee, that stand is nice.


----------



## dbq5anlxj

I just ordered the v281 with the upgrade option today. I hope it performs better than my dragonfly red Lol


----------



## Fegefeuer

Are you ordering a(n interim) DAC with it?


----------



## dbq5anlxj

Fegefeuer said:


> Are you ordering a(n interim) DAC with it?


No. I ordered one without the build in dac.So I still searching for the dac. The ak380 gets so hot during time.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Anyone have experience using one of these bad boys with a tube and/or NOS dac? I have an RME ADI-2 dac right now which I love, but I’ve been thinking of getting  something like a Border Patrol, MHDT, Metrum, or Soekris dac to mix things up a bit. To me it seems like it’d be fun to have 2 dacs to use with the V281 but maybe that’s overkill? Feels like a totl amp with 2 inputs should get taken advantage of. Don’t think I’ve seen too many other users with a similar setup though, no matter what 2 input amp we’re talking about.


----------



## jerick70

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Anyone have experience using one of these bad boys with a tube and/or NOS dac? I have an RME ADI-2 dac right now which I love, but I’ve been thinking of getting  something like a Border Patrol, MHDT, Metrum, or Soekris dac to mix things up a bit. To me it seems like it’d be fun to have 2 dacs to use with the V281 but maybe that’s overkill? Feels like a totl amp with 2 inputs should get taken advantage of. Don’t think I’ve seen too many other users with a similar setup though, no matter what 2 input amp we’re talking about.


I've used my V281 with an MHDT Atlantis in the past. I thought the pairing was so so.  That doesn't mean that another tube DAC won't sound good with the V281 though.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Anyone have experience using one of these bad boys with a tube and/or NOS dac? I have an RME ADI-2 dac right now which I love, but I’ve been thinking of getting  something like a Border Patrol, MHDT, Metrum, or Soekris dac to mix things up a bit. To me it seems like it’d be fun to have 2 dacs to use with the V281 but maybe that’s overkill? Feels like a totl amp with 2 inputs should get taken advantage of. Don’t think I’ve seen too many other users with a similar setup though, no matter what 2 input amp we’re talking about.



I have a lot of experience driving the V281 w/multibit DACs. I bought my used V281 in April of 2017. Since then, 90% of the time my DAC has been the Audio GD NOS 19 (the non-oversampling version of their well-regarded DAC-19 multibit). For ~1 month of that time, I used the V281 with the DAC-19, which I also own. 

I've posted many positive statements about the V281, an amazing sounding (and amazingly flexible) amp/preamp. Of course, I have no real way of knowing how much of that is due to the DACs vs the amp itself. Regardless, I can strongly/confidently recommend this combination.

I also hear my NOS DAC through multiple other headphone amps, several of which I also heard at length with delta-sigma DACs (the only kind I used before 2016). It's not as if I did serious listening comparisons between D-S DACs and NOS 19 or DAC-19. Still, I can't imagine going back to D-S DACs. Just about everything multibit, and especially NOS DACs do is positive, in my experience.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Anyone have experience using one of these bad boys with a tube and/or NOS dac? ...



I’ve got a v280 & several DACs— 9038-based Sonica DAC and R2R  Denafrips Pontus are my main DACs. I also have a Denafrips Ares and  an Ultra-fi FAC-41.

The Pontus can switch between OS &NOS. Honestly, I can’t hear _ANY_ difference when I switch between the two modes.


----------



## dbq5anlxj

anyone tried v281 with chord qutest? is this a good combo?


----------



## armymanhaha

I lost the remote of my V281. I cannot find the all-for-one model here. I am thinking of getting a logitech harmony remote so i can control my NAD m51 dac too.

Do you guys think the Logitech is that gonna work with the V281? what do you think i need to do to set up the remote with it?


----------



## ra990

dbq5anlxj said:


> anyone tried v281 with chord qutest? is this a good combo?


I used it with a 2Qute and now a Hugo2, both sound amazing on it. I'm sure the qutest would be no different.


----------



## zhgutov (May 23, 2018)

LCMusicLover said:


> The Pontus can switch between OS &NOS. Honestly, I can’t hear _ANY_ difference when I switch between the two modes.


The audible difference should be there, at least for 44.1 kHz. For 96+ kHz source files the difference should be negligible (if the DAC is nearly perfect).
And of course this is true if you don't do anything with that signal (upsample, run through something like HQPlayer or Roon with custom filters, etc.).
If you have no difference at 44.1 kHz, you probably have non-NOS DAC, which is called "NOS" (or the opposite).
Or maybe it has some analog "postprocessing" like in Schiit Gungnir Multibit, which can hide the difference (and introduce its own sound).


----------



## LCMusicLover

zhgutov said:


> The audible difference should be there, at least for 44.1 kHz. For 96+ kHz source files the difference should be negligible (if the DAC is nearly perfect).
> And of course this is true if you don't do anything with that signal (upsample, run through something like HQPlayer or Roon with custom filters, etc.).



Well, some of my source files are 96 kHz flac files.  In fact, it may be that all my test files are in that format -- I'll have to check.

Also, I'm feeding my DACs with a Singxer SU-1 -- the Pontus via AES/EBU.  Is that what you mean by doing something with the signal?

Thanks


----------



## Fegefeuer

armymanhaha said:


> I lost the remote of my V281. I cannot find the all-for-one model here. I am thinking of getting a logitech harmony remote so i can control my NAD m51 dac too.
> 
> Do you guys think the Logitech is that gonna work with the V281? what do you think i need to do to set up the remote with it?



IIRC it's a Philips TV code that is used for the remote. Unfortunately I don't know the exact model.


----------



## zhgutov

LCMusicLover said:


> Also, I'm feeding my DACs with a Singxer SU-1 -- the Pontus via AES/EBU. Is that what you mean by doing something with the signal?


This should not affect the NOS DAC qualities if there is no upsampling inside or something like this (something what may change the digital data).
Clock source may be better or worse, this may affect the sound quality, but this is from the different area. Here I am talking about the digital filters/interpolation (or about its absence - NOS).
When you have 96 kHz source (or when you do upsampling) you already have interpolated signal in the audible range, so NOS architecture (and most of the digital filters) has negligible effect in this case (IMO).


----------



## dbq5anlxj

ra990 said:


> I used it with a 2Qute and now a Hugo2, both sound amazing on it. I'm sure the qutest would be no different.


thanks for the reply. I just ordered chord quest today can't wait


----------



## dbq5anlxj

hey guys. I just recived my v281 today but still wait for the dac to arrive. I just wonder can I leave the amp on 24/7 or it better to turn it off when not using it?


----------



## zhgutov

dbq5anlxj said:


> can I leave the amp on 24/7


It's okay to use it this way. I don't turn my amp off. It works this way since 2014 with the exception when I go to trip or something like this


----------



## townes

dbq5anlxj said:


> hey guys. I just recived my v281 today but still wait for the dac to arrive. I just wonder can I leave the amp on 24/7 or it better to turn it off when not using it?


I turn it off, when I don' t use it. My ears don't mind and mother earth says: "thank you!".


----------



## Fegefeuer

I turn it off as well. Doesn't take too long to sound best. Same with DS DACs, It's different with Multibit DACs. They should stay always on to sound best or to reach/maintain thermal equilibrium.


----------



## 13713

dbq5anlxj said:


> hey guys. I just recived my v281 today but still wait for the dac to arrive. I just wonder can I leave the amp on 24/7 or it better to turn it off when not using it?



There is really no technical reason to keep it on. Some prefer to leave equipment on but at the end of the day electronics that stay on pull power and well unless you love using power for items not being used it makes little to no sense to leave it on. 

If someone has a tech writeup or explanation that differs from this view when it comes to this particular amp I am always eager to read more documents and or writeups.


----------



## zhgutov

Oh, just forgot about that. I don't turn it off just because I can do it. Not because it makes anything better or something like this.
It seems like V281 needs couple of minutes to warm up, but it sounds good right from the start. So, nothing to worry about here, IMO.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Also, the V281 is not one of those hot-running components where you wonder if it will set the curtains on fire. Quite the opposite. It gets slightly warm at most...just sits there & does its thing.

This is one component I wouldn't hesitate to leave on.


----------



## dbq5anlxj (Jun 6, 2018)

Finally here. so far so good.


----------



## dbq5anlxj (Jun 8, 2018)

Today I tried the v281 with my se5way iem using the se port.There are two se ports on the v281. When I plug it to the right port it have more buzze noise than the port on the left.is this normal? Or it's something wrong with my unit? I also notice there are a tiny bit noise when I run the hd800s using the balance port. I tried something but the noise still there (turn off the dac , turn off the computer).The noise wasn't there when I first go the v281. do I need a power conditioner or something ? thanks


----------



## novicez1

dbq5anlxj said:


> Today I tried the v281 with my se5way iem using the se port.There are two se ports on the v281. When I plug it to the right port it have more buzze noise than the port on the left.is this normal? Or it's something wrong with my unit? I also notice there are a tiny bit noise when I run the hd800s using the balance port. I tried something but the noise still there (turn off the dac , turn off the computer).The noise wasn't there when I first go the v281. do I need a power conditioner or something ? thanks



Sounds like a ground loop issue or iffy power line... I experienced this in a meet when one quirky fellow plugged his plethora of iFi snake oil (mercury, idefender, ipower) laden hugo2 on the same power strip and caused exact same issue as you are experiencing. When he unplugged them all, the problem was gone.


----------



## dbq5anlxj (Jun 8, 2018)

.


----------



## rhern213

I have a question about the XLR vs SE inputs. I just picked up a Chord Qutest which is only SE outputs. I was wondering has anyone tried testing if there's a difference connecting a SE DAC using an RCA to XLR cable plugged into the XLR inputs on the amp? As opposed to regular RCA to RCA SE cables into the amp?

Of course the signal going into the amp is SE regardless of the cable or input used since it's coming from a SE DAC.

I just don't know if there would be a difference to letting the amp do it's phase conversion from the SE inputs, or using a cable that's already going into the XLR inputs?

I'm asking just in case their could be some gain in audio quality from using one or the other?

For reference I'm using the balanced HP output of the amp.


----------



## zhgutov

rhern213 said:


> I have a question about the XLR vs SE inputs. I just picked up a Chord Qutest which is only SE outputs. I was wondering has anyone tried testing if there's a difference connecting a SE DAC using an RCA to XLR cable plugged into the XLR inputs on the amp? As opposed to regular RCA to RCA SE cables into the amp?
> 
> Of course the signal going into the amp is SE regardless of the cable or input used since it's coming from a SE DAC.
> 
> ...


RCA and XLR inputs sound very similar, IMO.
If your DAC has RCA outputs (only) it is probably better to use RCA to RCA connection.


----------



## rhern213

zhgutov said:


> RCA and XLR inputs sound very similar, IMO.
> If your DAC has RCA outputs (only) it is probably better to use RCA to RCA connection.



Thanks, right now I only have RCA's anyway, I'm curious to buy some RCA to XLR cables just to try it out but wanted to see if there's a technical reason that it wouldn't be a good idea to spend money on it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

rhern213 said:


> Thanks, right now I only have RCA's anyway, I'm curious to buy some RCA to XLR cables just to try it out but wanted to see if there's a technical reason that it wouldn't be a good idea to spend money on it.



You don't need special cables to try this. You can use your existing RCA cables if you add one of these adapters to each end before plugging into DAC (or amp, or anything else w/XLR mono inputs):

https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-GXM-133-RCA-XLR3M-Adaptor/dp/B000068O4D


----------



## zhgutov

Pharmaboy said:


> You don't need special cables to try this. You can use your existing RCA cables if you add one of these adapters to each end before plugging into DAC (or amp, or anything else w/XLR mono inputs):
> https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-GXM-133-RCA-XLR3M-Adaptor/dp/B000068O4D


You need to test if pin 1 is NOT connected to the case of the connector!



rhern213 said:


> I'm curious to buy some RCA to XLR cables just to try it out but wanted to see if there's a technical reason that it wouldn't be a good idea to spend money on it.


I don't see a reason to use XLR inputs when you have RCA source in the case of V281. But you can try it


----------



## armymanhaha

I have a NAD M51 DAC with both Balanced XLR and SE outputs, both are active at the same time not running parallel.
Of course I have a V281 so I have tested the XLR vs SE.

No obvious SQ difference other than the volume difference in the inherent advantage of the XLR.


----------



## PleasantSounds

dbq5anlxj said:


> Today I tried the v281 with my se5way iem using the se port.There are two se ports on the v281. When I plug it to the right port it have more buzze noise than the port on the left.is this normal? Or it's something wrong with my unit? I also notice there are a tiny bit noise when I run the hd800s using the balance port. I tried something but the noise still there (turn off the dac , turn off the computer).The noise wasn't there when I first go the v281. do I need a power conditioner or something ? thanks



If all else fails, you can try the onboard weaponery: there is a ground lift jumper on the main board, which may help eliminating these noises. Check the manual for settings.


----------



## madbull

Hi folks,

Has anyone experienced any trouble with the USB drivers for PC? Sometimes it crashes and I have to turn it off and on again. I'm using Win 10.

Using with my MacBook, it's solid as a rock.


----------



## ra990

V281 converts balanced inputs to a high quality single ended signal before amping. So if you have an unbalanced source, there's no point in using rca to xlr.


----------



## Fegefeuer

madbull said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Has anyone experienced any trouble with the USB drivers for PC? Sometimes it crashes and I have to turn it off and on again. I'm using Win 10.
> 
> Using with my MacBook, it's solid as a rock.



Did you try turning off the power management for the corresponding root hub?


----------



## madbull

Fegefeuer said:


> Did you try turning off the power management for the corresponding root hub?




I've updated the drivers and the problem seems to have been solved.

Thanks.


----------



## Fegefeuer

alright, great to hear.


----------



## chungjun

Have been holding up and finally pulled the trigger on a RME-ADI-2 DAC to hook it up with my V281. Shipment is en-route.
Hope they play well together.

Setup will be PC > ADI-2 DAC > Violectric V281 > HD800S 

Thank you all who have previously assisted with my queries and sharing your insights / experience. Much appreciated.


----------



## dbq5anlxj (Jun 27, 2018)

chungjun said:


> Have been holding up and finally pulled the trigger on a RME-ADI-2 DAC to hook it up with my V281. Shipment is en-route.
> Hope they play well together.
> 
> Setup will be PC > ADI-2 DAC > Violectric V281 > HD800S
> ...



Before I got the chord qutest. I really want to get the RME dac as well but they are out of stock everywhere. My previous setup is reagular pc > chord qutest > v281 > hd800s now I get rid of the pc and use a allo usbridge instead.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

chungjun said:


> Have been holding up and finally pulled the trigger on a RME-ADI-2 DAC to hook it up with my V281. Shipment is en-route.
> Hope they play well together.
> 
> Setup will be PC > ADI-2 DAC > Violectric V281 > HD800S
> ...


I have this setup (minus the pc) and it is pretty mind-blowing. There is such good synergy between the adi-2 dac, the V281 and the HD800S’s that having other open-back cans is starting to feel like an indulgence and not a necessity. In fact, I’d argue that there are only a handful of competitors out there for a better TOTL delta-sigma dac/solid state amp/dynamic headphone experience under $5000.


----------



## koven

Using Yggy as DAC and fully balanced, I think Utopia and V281 is a fantastic match. I've been comparing vs the Liquid Gold and the V281 is not far behind at all. 
Compared to my recent past amps. I feel it is superior to Hugo2/GSX2/Taurus2/Rag.


----------



## jerick70

koven said:


> Using Yggy as DAC and fully balanced, I think Utopia and V281 is a fantastic match. I've been comparing vs the Liquid Gold and the V281 is not far behind at all.
> Compared to my recent past amps. I feel it is superior to Hugo2/GSX2/Taurus2/Rag.


Nice comparison.  I have to agree on the GSX2.  The V281 is more organic and pleasant to listen to.  

What do you think the Liquid Gold does better over the V281?


----------



## koven (Jun 30, 2018)

jerick70 said:


> Nice comparison.  I have to agree on the GSX2.  The V281 is more organic and pleasant to listen to.
> 
> What do you think the Liquid Gold does better over the V281?



Yeah definitely more organic than GSX2 which I'd recall as a bit sterile and clinical. I think Rag and GSX2 signature are quite similar, except Rag lacks the benchmark resolution/transparency of GSX2. All in all it's hard to fault GSX2 on technical proficiency but not my cup of tea personally,

As for the Liquid Gold, it's definitely not a clear cut winner over V281 but I am finding the overall sound more musical and holographic, I slightly prefer the mids and tonality over V281 as well. It's even more lush sounding than the V281 which is already relatively tubey for an SS. However the treble and bass extension seems just a hair behind the V281. Again, ultimately splitting hairs here as I'd be happy w/ either of these, but the Cavalli is twice the price so I'd have to say the V281 is really a great value end game SS.


----------



## jerick70

koven said:


> Yeah definitely more organic than GSX2 which I'd recall as a bit sterile and clinical. I think Rag and GSX2 signature are quite similar, except Rag lacks the benchmark resolution/transparency of GSX2. All in all it's hard to fault GSX2 on technical proficiency but not my cup of tea personally,
> 
> As for the Liquid Gold, it's definitely not a clear cut winner over V281 but I am finding the overall sound more musical and holographic, I slightly prefer the mids and tonality over V281 as well. It's even more lush sounding than the V281 which is already relatively tubey for an SS. However the treble and bass extension seems just a hair behind the V281. Again, ultimately splitting hairs here as I'd be happy w/ either of these, but the Cavalli is twice the price so I'd have to say the V281 is really a great value end game SS.


Something that I've been tossing around in the DIY half of my brain is rolling opamps in the V281. I used to roll Burson V5 opamps in my since sold V200 and Gustard H10. It made a huge difference in the sound quality.  Rolling brought both amps up to a whole new level of performance. 

Burson released their V6 opamps recently and those look pretty nice. The NewClassD discrete opamps look really interesting too.

Food for thought....


----------



## dbq5anlxj

jerick70 said:


> Something that I've been tossing around in the DIY half of my brain is rolling opamps in the V281. I used to roll Burson V5 opamps in my since sold V200 and Gustard H10. It made a huge difference in the sound quality.  Rolling brought both amps up to a whole new level of performance.
> 
> Burson released their V6 opamps recently and those look pretty nice. The NewClassD discrete opamps look really interesting too.
> 
> Food for thought....


did anyone tried put the v6 in v281?


----------



## 111MilesToGo (Jul 21, 2018)

For a little while now, I have been contemplating to complement my Chord Hugo 2 plus Sennheiser HD 800 S setup with the HPA V281 in order to run the HD 800 S in balanced mode. Not auditioned yet, and I wouldn‘t know how the balance of gains and losses might end up. The Hugo 2 has single-ended RCA outputs, which can either be adjustable via its volume knob or be a fixed line-out type at s.th. like 3 Volts.

I have a question for you about the V281 design. Following the categories as in





EagleWings said:


> I am going to over-simplify a little bit. It depends on the amp's design itself. Amps that have a SE input and have a Balanced output port can be broken down into these 3 categories:
> 
> 1. Amps that are Fully Balanced (Differential) in design, which can take in SE input and output a Balanced Output via a Balanced port
> 2. Some amps can be Balanced in design, but are Fully Balanced only if fed with a Balanced signal. But they can take a SE input and output a Balanced output. Its just that, they are not Fully Balanced, when being fed an SE signal. eg: Cayin HA6
> ...



My question is: Which category would describe the V281 best?


EagleWings said:


> From what I understand, V281 is a fully balanced amp (Type 1). But you probably want to ask in the V281 thread to confirm.


Thanks a lot for providing your insight.


----------



## lithiumnk (Jul 21, 2018)

111MilesToGo said:


> For a little while now, I have been contemplating to complement my Chord Hugo 2 plus Sennheiser HD 800 S setup with the HPA V281 in order to run the HD 800 S in balanced mode. Not auditioned yet, and I wouldn‘t know how the balance of gains and losses might end up. The Hugo 2 has single-ended RCA outputs, which can either be adjustable via its volume knob or be a fixed line-out type at s.th. like 3 Volts.
> 
> I have a question for you about the V281 design. Following the categories as in
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for this post. @111MilesToGo @EagleWings
This has cleared many doubts.
I have Hugo 2.
I was looking for an external headphone amp.
Violectric v281 drives iems to headphones(low sensitivity) with a black background which is rarely seen.
I am aware that v281 is an old hp amp (arnd 4yrs). But, I am impressed by its flexibility & measurements. There is no announcement regarding v282/v284 as of now.
I had briefly tried cayin iha6 & Bryston bha-1.The sound was cold, analytical & fatiguing.(not my preference)
Headamp gs x mk2 is difficult to import & more expensive than v281 & the impression that I got from v281 thread is that the gsxmk2 excels the v281 by a hair in the treble dept.
I'll be using audeze lcd i4 (scales beautifully with desktop amps) with v281 & ch2 via balanced 4 pin male xlr to 2.5mm double helix ultrashort adapter.
I have ordered v281 silver. It will be delivered in few days.
Thanks


----------



## noplsestar

lithiumnk said:


> Thanks a lot for this post. @111MilesToGo @EagleWings
> This has cleared many doubts.
> I have Hugo 2.
> I was looking for an external headphone amp.
> ...


This is the „new“ v281 (double the price)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nii...us4-us4-headphone-amps-by-lake-people.876018/


----------



## 111MilesToGo

Thanks for your kind words, @lithiumnk. Would love to hear about your experiences.

Yet, I am still looking for an answer / a confirmation for my technical question regarding the V281 design principle when taking a single-ended input to the balanced headphone output. Cf. the categories by EagleWings quoted above.


----------



## EagleWings

lithiumnk said:


> Thanks a lot for this post. @111MilesToGo @EagleWings
> This has cleared many doubts.
> I have Hugo 2.
> I was looking for an external headphone amp.
> ...



And thanks to you for sharing this man. Would you say the IHA6 and BHA1 are brighter than the Hugo2 without the iFi setup? 

Btw, from what I hear, the GSX MK2 is brighter than both iHA6 and BHA 1.


----------



## lithiumnk

EagleWings said:


> And thanks to you for sharing this man. Would you say the IHA6 and BHA1 are brighter than the Hugo2 without the iFi setup?
> 
> Btw, from what I hear, the GSX MK2 is brighter than both iHA6 and BHA 1.


I have not tried bha-1 & iha6 with Hugo 2 or with ifi setup.
I had tried the idap6 & iha6 combo. There was a noticeable dip in SQ( transparency, micro detailing , noise floor, soundstage & natural sound) as compared to my Hugo 2 & ifi setup. Yes, they were on a brighter side & lacked the meatier sound that I was looking for.
I had tried bha-1 with hd 650 (unbalanced).. not with lcd i4. I really liked the mids... not happy with bass & treble.
Dac - Amp - HP pairing has a lot to do with the final perceived sound.
I have high hopes from v281. (Fingers crossed)
Cheers


----------



## lithiumnk (Jul 22, 2018)

111MilesToGo said:


> Thanks for your kind words, @lithiumnk. Would love to hear about your experiences.
> 
> Yet, I am still looking for an answer / a confirmation for my technical question regarding the V281 design principle when taking a single-ended input to the balanced headphone output. Cf. the categories by EagleWings quoted above.


One of the early adopters of v281 in 2014 has partially answered your question.
Check this :
1. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...g-durch-balanced.705318/page-14#post-10718784

2. Post #460 by project86.


----------



## Pharmaboy

lithiumnk said:


> One of the early adopters of v281 in 2014 has partially answered your question.
> Check this :
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...g-durch-balanced.705318/page-14#post-10718784



I sorta remember this post. FYI, balanced vs SE in general is one of the more contentious/often argued topics in this hobby. Specific to V281, there have been occasional posts by the mfr in Germany on this or that sub-thread. The answer to these questions may be in one of his posts.

Top on my upgrade list is to get a new Audio GD amp that has a balanced output (R2R 1, a new model). That way I can feed a balanced output pair from the DAC to the V281, thus utilizing all 4 of its amplifiers.

Scary to think that the already very impressive V281 (run w/SE inputs) actually has more gas in the tank & more tricks to show me w/a balanced input...


----------



## rhern213 (Jul 23, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> I sorta remember this post. FYI, balanced vs SE in general is one of the more contentious/often argued topics in this hobby. Specific to V281, there have been occasional posts by the mfr in Germany on this or that sub-thread. The answer to these questions may be in one of his posts.
> 
> Top on my upgrade list is to get a new Audio GD amp that has a balanced output (R2R 1, a new model). That way I can feed a balanced output pair from the DAC to the V281, thus utilizing all 4 of its amplifiers.
> 
> Scary to think that the already very impressive V281 (run w/SE inputs) actually has more gas in the tank & more tricks to show me w/a balanced input...



But if you connect your HP's through the balanced output of the V281 you will get the full power of the V281 either way, there's no need for balanced inputs. Not sure why you would need a balanced amp in the middle?


----------



## LCMusicLover

rhern213 said:


> But if you connect your HP's through the balanced output of the V281 you will get the full power of the V281 either way, there's no need for balanced inputs. Not sure why you would need a balanced amp in the middle?


Pretty sure he meant DAC, not amp. Audio-GD R2R-1 is a DAC only.


----------



## 111MilesToGo (Jul 23, 2018)

Yes, seems like an often discussed and in part cloudy topic. My original question was concerned with a USB DAC with single-ended outputs only (Chord Hugo 2) being hooked up to the SE inputs of the Violectric HPA V281 amp, then taking its balanced output to feed the Sennheiser HD 800 S.

The question was whether the V281 is a fully balanced amp as per category 1 in the a.m. posts by @EagleWings, which should make full use of the four amps in the V281. Unfortunately, there are not many DACs with balanced out (@Pharmaboy), especially not among the quasi-mobile ones; for sure Hugo 2 is to be seen as a TOTL DAC. Hints as referred to above (@lithiumnk, @Pharmaboy) do indeed indicate the V281 to be category 1. Thanks also to the other contributors (@rhern213, @LCMusicLover).

I used the words hints, indicate etc with a purpose - no clear-cut statement yet. Took a look at the V281 manual, too. Guess auditioning = musicality will have to decide over technicalities before a purchase ...


----------



## zhgutov

111MilesToGo said:


> Yes, seems like an often discussed and in part cloudy topic. My original question was concerned with a USB DAC with single-ended outputs only (Chord Hugo 2) being hooked up to the SE inputs of the Violectric HPA V281 amp, then taking its balanced output to feed the Sennheiser HD 800 S.
> 
> The question was whether the V281 is a fully balanced amp as per category 1 in the a.m. posts by @EagleWings, which should make full use of the four amps in the V281. Unfortunately, there are not many DACs with balanced out (@Pharmaboy), especially not among the quasi-mobile ones; for sure Hugo 2 is to be seen as a TOTL DAC. Hints as referred to above (@lithiumnk, @Pharmaboy) do indeed indicate the V281 to be category 1. Thanks also to the other contributors (@rhern213, @LCMusicLover).
> 
> I used the words hints, indicate etc with a purpose - no clear-cut statement yet. Took a look at the V281 manual, too. Guess auditioning = musicality will have to decide over technicalities before a purchase ...



Seems like cross-thread discussion here 
V281 is "1". It can take SE or balanced input signal, and output both balanced and unbalanced.


----------



## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> Seems like cross-thread discussion here
> V281 is "1". It can take SE or balanced input signal, and output both balanced and unbalanced.



The real question in this discussion is whether all 4 amp sections of the V281 (which the manual describes as "4 Discrete-design power amps with 8 transistors per channel") are used when a single-ended input feeds signal to the V281 (whether the SE or balanced output is used by the headphone).

One possibility is that 2 of 4 internal amp sections are used when the SE input is connected; and all 4 internal amp sections are used only when a balanced input feeds signal to the V281. If this is true, than the V281 w/2 amp sections would be equivalent to the single-ended V220 in power output and sound quality.
The other possibility is that all 4 amp sections are in use regardless of which input (SE or balanced) is used. 

I can't find the answer in the manual...


----------



## zhgutov

Pharmaboy said:


> The real question in this discussion is whether all 4 amp sections of the V281 (which the manual describes as "4 Discrete-design power amps with 8 transistors per channel") are used when a single-ended input feeds signal to the V281 (whether the SE or balanced output is used by the headphone).
> 
> One possibility is that 2 of 4 internal amp sections are used when the SE input is connected; and all 4 internal amp sections are used only when a balanced input feeds signal to the V281. If this is true, than the V281 w/2 amp sections would be equivalent to the single-ended V220 in power output and sound quality.
> The other possibility is that all 4 amp sections are in use regardless of which input (SE or balanced) is used.
> I can't find the answer in the manual...



All 4 amps are used if you use balanced headphone output.
2 amps are used when you use SE headphone output.
It does not matter if you feed balanced or unbalanced signal.


----------



## Pharmaboy

How do you know this? Do the circuit diagrams in the manual support this? 

(I can't read them...that's why I ask)


----------



## zhgutov

Pharmaboy said:


> Do the circuit diagrams in the manual support this?


Yes.

Moreover, you can feed the same level to the balanced and unbalanced input and get the same level output.
And in all cases you can use both SE output. One is in phase, another is out of phase.
That's why it should work like I described. No way to be different.


----------



## EagleWings (Jul 23, 2018)

Then, the amp falls in the category 2 in my list. Meaning, it is not a differential design, where in it would take a SE signal and use all 4 amps and output a BAL signal. Instead, it seems to use a circuit at the output stage to split the signal to create a Balanced output.


----------



## zhgutov

EagleWings said:


> Then, the amp falls in the category 2 in my list. Meaning, it is not a differential design, where in it would take a SE signal and use all 4 amps and output a BAL signal. Instead, it seems to use a circuit at the output stage to split the signal to create a Balanced output.


http://violectric-usa.com/download/Balanced Headphone Amplifier Explained.pdf


----------



## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> http://violectric-usa.com/download/Balanced Headphone Amplifier Explained.pdf



Thanks, but I struggle to understand the pdf. This why I ask dumb questions (my IQ is apparently allocated to different topics/areas, not electrical engineering!).


----------



## zhgutov

Pharmaboy said:


> Thanks, but I struggle to understand the pdf. This why I ask dumb questions (my IQ is apparently allocated to different topics/areas, not electrical engineering!).



I suppose, this means V281 is fully balanced ("1" in @EagleWings classification).
It can use 4 amps for both SE and balanced input signals.


----------



## BLacklWf (Jul 23, 2018)

I think there is a confusion on what 'Balanced' means for the rest of the audio world vs the Headphone world, so let me take a bite at it.  TLDR - please go to the last paragraph directly.

Balanced signal input is about the signal purity.  Unbalanced inputs have 1 signal and 1 ground per Channel while as Balanced inputs have 2 signals and 1 ground per Channel.  With Balanced, one of the signal has inversed (negative/reversed) polarity. The fact it involves the inversed polarity seems to confuse people - but the function of inversed polarity is totally different between Signal Input vs Amp Output. I won't be able to explain all the physics behind it for my lack of my knowledge, but the inversed polarity on Signal reduces electromagnetic noise.  Also, 2x the signal = 2x the power which helps when a cable is over 50 feet.  That's why the pro-aduio cables are almost always balanced because they tend to run long plus there are typically many electromagnetic nosie inducing equipments nearby. In the headphone world, due to the fact our input cables are much shorter (a few feet vs 50-100 feet) and typically not surrounded equpments using a couple hundreds or thousands watts, there isn't much difference as far as the signal quality wise on Balanced vs Unbalanced inputs. That's why some of the best audio engineers in the world are keep saying there isn't much difference between balanced vs unbalanced because they do not recognize 'Balanced' actually means something entirely different when it comes to Headphone output - that on the 3rd paragraph.

Balanced (or differential) amp output for speaker is about controlling the diaphragm better.  It's not about signal integrity anymore.  Using inphase and inversed polarities, the amp can push and pull the speaker diaphragm rather than push only/pull only - the difference is passively letting diaphragm return to its original position vs actively controlling diaphragm return - which in my opinion has bigger effect as the diaphragm gets heavier/bigger.  Headphone diaphragms are much much lighter/smaller than speaker diaphragms and therefore some of the best audio engineers in the world again says there isn't much difference when it comes to headphones.  But, clearly some headphones such as Sennheiser HD6XX benefit greatly from push & pull more than others in my experience.  Inversed polarity is involved here but this actually has nothing to do with the inversed signal above.  I will discuss it on the last paragraph.

On Headphone, Balanced outputs means one more thing. That is fixing one fundamental flaw of Unbalanced/SE headphone out.  SE Headphone outputs have has *2* signals and *1* return per stereo. Which means the return paths are actually electrically shorted!!  In my humble opinion, Headphone SE/Unbalanced output is just a purely stupid design which is just lazy, sucky, inferior, and just totally doesn't make any sense at all kinda of design. Why would anyone spend over $5,000+ on a headphone system and decide to short the wires together - that is beyond me!  Ex) I spent $1,000+ on my input/USB cables so that they will totally shield out any electrical noise at the most microscopic level making my signal pure! Now, let's celebrate it by physically shorting two wires together!! *F#%$!!  *Really... that's is totally beyond me...  Again, sometimes even the best of the audio engineers are confused on what Balanced means for Headphone out and keep saying there is no difference between Headphone SE Out vs Headphone Balanced Out. One is Shorted and Other is Not!!! Duh!!!  For Headphone, Balanced output means it's finally a proper engineering. On top of that a true balanced amp like V281 has differential design - therefore there is Push & Pull effect in driving the headphone diaphragm, but that's not what I'm trying to say here.

I just want people to know that Balanced Amp Output *really has nothing* to do with Balanced Signal Input. The inversed polarity for input is about the signal integrity. The inversed polarity of amp is about Push & Pull in order to control diaphragm better. On top of it, balanced outputs for headphone fixes the fundamental problem where the return paths are shorted otherwise.  Someone may ask V281 has four amps (two amps for inphase and two amps for inversed), how does it then works with Unbalanced signals - where do inversed signals come from? The truth is that it flips and generate the inversed signals on its own - just like any non-headphone stereo amps do. Most audiophile solid state stereo amplifiers also have four amps, and they work perfectly fine with 'unbalanced' inputs just like V281 because the inverted signal is flipped by the amp regardless the input is Balanced or Unbalanced. Even when fed with Balanced signals, the amp only takes inphase signals and generate inversed signals on its own. The inversed input signal is only used to cancel the noise but not fed into the inversed amp. I said 'most' because there are amps which actually take the inversed signals from the balanced inputs, but to my knowledge those are rare and actually defeats the whole purpose of the balanced input design. The polarity inversion of the balanced signal input is about cancelling the noise and it was never meant to carry four signals to feed four separate amps - it was meant to carry two signals 'better'.


----------



## EagleWings (Jul 24, 2018)

@BLacklWf , ^^^ this here is probably the best explanation I have come across on the subject. Thank you much.

*Key-points from your post:*
- The balanced signal that is fed as the input to an amp, is not the same as the balanced signal that the amp operates with (at least in most cases, as there are some exceptions, where the amp actually uses the inverted input signal)
- Regardless of the type of input signal (Balanced or SE), a fully balanced (differential) amp creates an inverted signal, which it works with in the amplification stage
- V281 is a fully balanced (differential) amp, regardless of the input signal (SE or Balanced), and so it belongs to the Category 1 in my list, as @zhgutov said in his recent post

*Which brings us to the following key-points regarding DACs for the V281:*
- When using Hugo 2 as a DAC to feed V281, the amp is operating as a fully balanced amp
- The performance of V281 depends on the quality of the input signal, regardless of whether it is SE or Balanced. So a DAC with a Balanced output is not completely necessary to get the best out of the V281
- Some DACs like Yggy, are known to output analog signal of better quality via the Balanced, than the SE output. In such cases, it makes sense to choose Balanced connection over the SE connection on the same DAC


----------



## BLacklWf (Jul 23, 2018)

EagleWings said:


> @BLacklWf , ^^^ this here is probably the best explanation I have come across on the subject. Thank you much.
> 
> *Key-points from your post:*
> - The balanced signal that is fed as the input to an amp, is not the same as the balanced signal that the amp operates with (at least in most cases, as there are some exceptions, where the amp actually uses the inverted input signal)
> ...


EagleWings - yes you've nailed my points!  I could not have summarized it better myself.  Just to add a few interesting tidy bits..  I have read V281 actually converts Balanced signals into Unbalanced signals, which is perfectly fine in my book because at the end of the day there are only Left vs Right signals. The purpose of Balanced signal is to send signals with less noise NOT to send extra signals. Fred who designs both amps and DACs clearly understands the both applications of the signal generation vs the signal amplification.  I'm saying this because..

The other very well known amp designer made his balanced amp not to work with SE signals. I suppose he may think SE signal is not adequate for his balanced amp which makes me wonder if ever the inphase vs inversed signals differ for any reason (for most home application they would be spot on since signals travel like 3 feet in non-electromagnetic intense space) he would rather take the signals distorted as they are as his amp pushes and pulls the diaphragm.. rather than flip the inversed signals by the amp, which will sync both inphase vs inversed push and pull.  Well.. some harmonic distortion may add to the sounds.. maybe he tried both and decided his ears like some harmonic distortion..  who knows?

The other very well known DAC designer refuses to have the internal balanced headphone output to his DACs saying his DAC is not balanced by design. I don't have expertise as to know if there is actually a balanced DAC by design.. So I'm not sure what his DAC lacks in order to have balanced headphone outs.  But, most interestingly he has the balanced signal-outs but refuses the balanced headphone-outs!  Perhaps.. he thinks amps use both inphase and inverse signals separately to drive the speakers... well regardless he already has both the signals!  It really puzzles me because he is the best DAC designer of all time.. so who knows?

If someone starts to mention about the balanced grounds.. then the topic can get more complex.. but in my humble opinion the ground doesn't matter much vs how actual inphase/inverse polarity works (it doesn't even matter when the source is battery powered). But, I suppose someone can bring that or something else minuscules to say everything I ever said here is totally wrong.


----------



## fdg

*Again some words about unbalanced and balanced signal.*

In general it can be said that balanced signals are the better signals.
This is because of their nature.
Feeding unbalanced signals from one item to the other means that an electric signal is pushed from the transmitter to the receiver.
But the electrons which are in charge for this task like to go back to the transmitter because they are missing there.
And they do by using the screen of the cable.
That means that there is always traffic on the screen to accomplish equal potentials ( = ground) among all connected items.
And if some of these items are connected to different wall outlets with slightly differing potentials chances are high that his can be heard as hum.
Now imagine the same situation with balanced signals.
There is no need for the electrons to go back to the transmitter through the screen of the cable because they have a dedicated wire ( = out of phase signal) to do so.
And that means that there is no traffic on the screen – the cardinal reason for low(ered) hum !
Of course these effects are maximized for long cables – therefore professionals will exclusively use balanced signal lines, but also for 1-2 feet distances it is useful to drive them balanced.
*Keep in mind:*
  - Only balanced lines will enable proper ground potentials
  - Improper ground will generate crosstalk issues and hum

*The features of HPA V281 concerning unbalanced and balanced signals:*
The internal signal processing of V281 is unbalanced !
This is the only way to feed unbalanced and balanced input signals and generate balanced and unbalanced output signals.
The line-out circuitry and the headphone amps inside V281 are totally independent from each other and driven by a dedicated circuitry. That means that they will not affect each other.
For example you can feed an unbalanced signal and generate an unbalanced line-out signal and a balanced headphone signal simultaneously.
Or you can feed a balanced input signal and generate an unbalanced line-out signal and an unbalanced headphone signal.
Special function:
There are 4 headphone amps inside V281. These are left in-phase, left out-of-phase, right in phase, right out-of-phase.
They are connected to the 4-pin XLR headphone socket.
Further one phone jack socket is connected to the left and right in-phase signals and the other phone jack socket is connected to left and right the out-of-phase signals.
That means that two SE headphones will be driven by their own amps so there is no impedance mismatch.

*Fully balanced amps:*
These are amps where the internal structure is balanced, meaning they have two internal stereo paths: in-phase and out-of-phase.
They feature 4-way volume control and other 4-channels features.
If such gear is treated with unbalanced input signals only 50 % of the amp is active.
True “fully balanced” equipment is rare as there is no real profit to do so but lots of disadvantages.

*Fully balanced D/A converters:*
Such is simple as every better D/A converter chip offers balanced outputs.
This is an easy measure by the chip manufacturers to raise S/N ration.
All a designer has to do is to feed the signals coming from the D/A chip through some more or less complex electronics to the balanced outputs.
If the circuitry is a bit more complex (like inside Violectric / Lake People converters  )
  - a volume control is possible
 - or different analog outputs levels whilst maintaining low output impedances
 - or active unbalanced outputs which are derived from the balanced lines by using differential amps.

Cheers, Fried


----------



## Fegefeuer

I've referenced Fried's insight and explanations on the starting page. Will add the others as well. Please check page 1: *technical insight and explanations by Fried Reim*


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## 111MilesToGo (Jul 24, 2018)

Wow, what a lovely and lively discussion here, which started two pages back at https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-248#post-14372270 and actually at 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...official-thread.831345/page-898#post-14370938.

Thanks to all and esp. @fdg Fried Reim. Will have to digest first, being not a major in electronics...


----------



## BLacklWf (Jul 24, 2018)

fdg said:


> *Again some words about unbalanced and balanced signal.*
> 
> In general it can be said that balanced signals are the better signals.
> This is because of their nature.
> ...


Thanks for chiming in Fried! 
"Full Balanced" that's the word hanging but I could not muster.   In my humble non-engineer opinion - doesn't the fully balanced amp defeat the purpose of the balanced signal transmission in some way? I get that an engineer can get overly technical in pursuing the perfection and try to balance the entire circuit board of which the internally generated the inversed signal may be viewed as a breaking point. But, to my limited knowledge the purpose of the balanced signal is *not* to transmit 4 signals but to transmit the stereo signals better. I worked in telecommunication a couple decades ago, and I could be wrong but the balanced (inverted) signal transmission was innovated for/by telecom or military industry. At least as far as the telecom application goes, the inverted signal does nothing but to reduce the noise - it's not used as a signal itself. But some audio engineers try to use it. Again I get that if the entire amp circuit board is balanced - theoretically it will be more immune to noise - but practically something always crosses and furthermore achieving perfect balanced ground is almost impossible unless you have separate power generators. Like you said there really isn't real benefit/profit. Additionally, an overly complicated circuit can actually sound inferior - that of course depending on the pedigree of the engineer. Anyway to an uneducated outsider like me, it almost seems as if some audio engineers do not get the whole point of the balanced signal transmission and pursue a wrong unicorn. Just my humble opinion.

By the way I always thought 'balanced headphone amp' isn't a good term, but it should rather be called 'fully differential headphone amp'.  Just my two cents.


----------



## 3083joe

Excellent stuff here lately! Keep it up learning a lot!


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## fdg

BLacklWf said:


> In my humble non-engineer opinion - doesn't the fully balanced amp defeat the purpose of the balanced signal transmission in some way? I get that an engineer can get overly technical in pursuing the perfection and try to balance the entire circuit board of which the internally generated the inversed signal may be viewed as a breaking point.


Indeed ! The problem is about having identical 4 channels which is hard to do with 1% tolerance resistors and 5% tolerance caps. Also the signal tracing will be hard ... 


> But, to my limited knowledge the purpose of the balanced signal is *not* to transmit 4 signals but to transmit the stereo signals better.


1. left channel in-phase / 2. left channel out-of-phase / 3. right channel in-phase / 4. right channel out-of-phase = 4  channels


> I worked in telecommunication a couple decades ago, and I could be wrong but the balanced (inverted) signal transmission was innovated for/by telecom or military industry. At least as far as the telecom application goes, the inverted signal does nothing but to reduce the noise - it's not used as a signal itself.


Balanced signals had been present by chance at a time when there was no electronics.
The telephone from Mr. Bell or Mr. Reis (preferences are depending on your location ) would not work without balanced lines which were called "twisted cables" at that time ...! 
The inverted signal carries the same information like the original non-inverted signal.
But it is 180 degrees phase shifted - that´s the trick !
To learn more read this: http://violectric-usa.com/index.php?route=faq/faq 
topic: "*What are the different kinds of balanced applications and their advantages"* and even more if you like *...*


> By the way I always thought 'balanced headphone amp' isn't a good term, but it should rather be called 'fully differential headphone amp'.


The headphone out IS balanced in a basic pyhsical meaning. But you can also call it "push-pull technique" or "BTL" = bridge-transformerless.
Maybe it is called balanced because *balance* is fashion:
you should eat balanced
your bank account should be balanced
you must charge your LI battery using a balancer
your life-style should be balanced


----------



## BLacklWf

fdg said:


> Indeed ! The problem is about having identical 4 channels which is hard to do with 1% tolerance resistors and 5% tolerance caps. Also the signal tracing will be hard ...
> 
> 1. left channel in-phase / 2. left channel out-of-phase / 3. right channel in-phase / 4. right channel out-of-phase = 4  channels
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot again for taking care of the rest of us! . It’s great to learn the origin of the balanced by the way. And, please note that I love V281. One of the best purchases I made ever regardless of the categories!!


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## bluenight

Is this a very good amp for the HD800 S?
Better choice then Sennheisers own HDV 820?

I would use a SE hugo 2 as dac with unbalanced rca. Would i still get a fully balanced output from the 4 pin xlr then? At least the full output power?

How about bass peformence,  Strong and impactful and not lacking?

Mids: good and articulate voices?

And treble not to bright and harsh but still sparkley?


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## LCMusicLover

bluenight said:


> ...I would use a SE hugo 2 as dac with unbalanced rca. Would i still get a fully balanced output from the 4 pin xlr then? At least the full output power?...


The last 20 or so posts in this thread cover that exact topic.


----------



## Pharmaboy

No idea about HD800S. Never heard it or HD800 on my V281. Also never heard the HDV 820.

The HD800S is a high impedance (300 ohms) headphone, so I suppose a high impedance amp (such as an OTL tube amp) could have certain advantages. 

I've done a lot of listening to stock & modded HD650s on my V281--it was superb, the best of my amps on these high impedance headphones (also 300 ohms). Actually preferred SS to my OTL tube amp, the Woo WA3.
The rest of your questions are easy to answer:

"How about bass peformence, Strong and impactful and not lacking?" 

V281 has jackhammer bass--tons of impact and depth. It will go as low and far as any headphones I know of. Plus the tonality/timbre/accuracy of the bass is top-notch (very easy to tell bass instruments apart)

"Mids: good and articulate voices?"

Yes & yes. I listen to a lot of choral music, and the V281 easily distinguishes between all those different voices, sections of singers, subtle sound of the recording venue, etd. I have 5 SS amps; this is the best. I can't recall ever hearing better mids from a SS amp.

"And treble not to bright and harsh but still sparkley?"

That's an accurate description of the V281's treble. There's no editorial treble here (receeded or boosted)--you get whatever is on the recording. I find the treble to be very high in resolution but not shouty or hyped.

You didn't ask about soundstaging, but your HP is a soundstaging champ--so you might be interested to know that the V281's soundstaging is the best I've heard from any non-tube amp. It gets rather spectacular when you have headphones that also can really soundstage...


----------



## 3083joe

bluenight said:


> Is this a very good amp for the HD800 S?
> Better choice then Sennheisers own HDV 820?
> 
> I would use a SE hugo 2 as dac with unbalanced rca. Would i still get a fully balanced output from the 4 pin xlr then? At least the full output power?
> ...



Good afternoon.  

I have to say I’ve listen to the HD 800 non modded, sounded great on v281

The 800S which I have now sound even better. 

I haven’t heard the 820. 

I did listen with a WA22 for a while but once I got the V281 I sold the wa22 no comparison in my opinion. Sounded good but the V281 just did everything else right. Quieter soundstage transparency grain everything was just better


Cheers


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## 3083joe

I do have a question for anyone that has used the 281 for a preamp to two channel speakers. How is it as a preamp? As good as it is for a headphone amp? Anyone’s thoughts would be greatly appreciated. 

Tia


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## bluenight

R


3083joe said:


> Good afternoon.
> 
> I have to say I’ve listen to the HD 800 non modded, sounded great on v281
> 
> ...


Less grain you say? Thats always welcome.


----------



## bluenight

I have the Lake people RS 02 amp. I think it was based on V100 if i remmeber correct or maybe on same level as G109.

If one is familiar with those how much of an improvement could i excpect going to V281? I can say that i find bass alittle lacking on RS 02 with HD800 S.


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## jerick70

bluenight said:


> I have the Lake people RS 02 amp. I think it was based on V100 if i remmeber correct or maybe on same level as G109.
> 
> If one is familiar with those how much of an improvement could i excpect going to V281? I can say that i find bass alittle lacking on RS 02 with HD800 S.


I had a V200 in the past and recently purchased a V281.  It is a huge upgrade from the V200.  Not sure about the RS 02, but I'm guessing that the V200 is an upgrade from the RS 02.


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## bluenight

Pharmaboy said:


> No idea about HD800S. Never heard it or HD800 on my V281. Also never heard the HDV 820.
> 
> The HD800S is a high impedance (300 ohms) headphone, so I suppose a high impedance amp (such as an OTL tube amp) could have certain advantages.
> 
> ...


How about the dynamic and attack? And engagment in music? Its not dull?


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## jerick70 (Jul 26, 2018)

One other thing I wanted to mention.  My V281 had the standard volume control when I purchased it.  I upgraded my V281 to the stepped volume control a few weeks later.  IMO That was an even larger upgrade.


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## bluenight

jerick70 said:


> One other thing I wanted to mention.  My V281 had the standard volume control when I purchased it.  I upgraded my V281 to the stepped volume control a few weeks later.  IMO That was an even larger upgrade.


Is that the most expensive one with remote control?


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## jerick70

bluenight said:


> Is that the most expensive one with remote control?


Yes it is. $2,645.91 with Violectric's current discount.


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## zhgutov (Jul 26, 2018)

3083joe said:


> I do have a question for anyone that has used the 281 for a preamp to two channel speakers. How is it as a preamp? As good as it is for a headphone amp? Anyone’s thoughts would be greatly appreciated.



I use V281 as a preamp with Acoustic Energy AE1 Active. It works very well.
I think in most cases it is better to set line out gain (inside V281) to -14 dB to achieve good volume pot range.
IMO, it is better not to use volume control/gain on your monitors (if they have), because V281 works better here.


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## Pharmaboy

zhgutov said:


> I use V281 as a preamp with Acoustic Energy AE1 Active. It works very well.
> I think in most cases it is better to set line out gain (inside V281) to -14 dB to achieve good volume pot range.
> IMO, it is better not to use volume control/gain on your monitors (if they have), because V281 works better here.



I agree with your comment about gain. At unity gain (on the line out, which has separate gain settings from the headphone output), I find the V281 to be rather "hot," too much gain. At -14 dB the system is much better matched. 

The gain controls on the V281 are very flexible and high quality. I also would assume they are more transparent than a gain pot on monitors.

I also find the control flexibility of the V281 to be unusually good in other ways--such as separate muting of line out, headphone out, or both (from front panel as well as remote control). Really a fine design.


----------



## Pharmaboy

bluenight said:


> How about the dynamic and attack? And engagment in music? Its not dull?



The V281 is the complete opposite of "dull." It's the most dynamic SS device I've ever heard. Attack is high-level and consistent. But you should understand, the V281 is also smooth. Not a treble cannon. Not "pushing" music down your ears. It's quite capable of finesse & subtlety.

I hear all this on the line out as well as the headphone out BTW.


----------



## 3083joe

zhgutov said:


> I use V281 as a preamp with Acoustic Energy AE1 Active. It works very well.
> I think in most cases it is better to set line out gain (inside V281) to -14 dB to achieve good volume pot range.
> IMO, it is better not to use volume control/gain on your monitors (if they have), because V281 works better here.



Thanks so much for this. 

I’m going to be trying this out with my Martin Logan’s and ayre amp


----------



## Pharmaboy

bluenight said:


> I have the Lake people RS 02 amp. I think it was based on V100 if i remmeber correct or maybe on same level as G109.
> 
> If one is familiar with those how much of an improvement could i excpect going to V281? I can say that i find bass alittle lacking on RS 02 with HD800 S.



I never heard the RS 02, though I remember a review described it as more neutral than (if memory serves) the Lake People G-109A, which I have. I also have the V281. Those are two very fine, but also very different amps:

G109A is single-ended only; 43 step pot; less power than V281 but plenty for every headphone I have. Sound is slightly warm and very musical. Bass is excellent. Every part of this amp is excellent except the soundstaging, which is good, but not on the level of the V281. I tend to use the G109-A for new/unfamiliar headphones because it's so straightforward in sound.

V281 is very powerful, SE and balanced out, 128-step pot. Sound is very slightly warm, extremely dynamic, but also rather musical. Bass is crushing. Soundstaging is world-class for SS IMHO. 

I wouldn't sell either one of these amps. They're both wonderful IMO.


----------



## 3083joe

Pharmaboy said:


> I agree with your comment about gain. At unity gain (on the line out, which has separate gain settings from the headphone output), I find the V281 to be rather "hot," too much gain. At -14 dB the system is much better matched.
> 
> The gain controls on the V281 are very flexible and high quality. I also would assume they are more transparent than a gain pot on monitors.
> 
> I also find the control flexibility of the V281 to be unusually good in other ways--such as separate muting of line out, headphone out, or both (from front panel as well as remote control). Really a fine design.



Awesome. Excited to try it out. Save money on buying another preamp and has quality that would be hard to match...


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## BLacklWf

I can only compare preamp quality of V281 to Emotiva USP-1 preamp I used to have. It was like $500 and people paraded it as being one of the best value preamp before. It was good but V281 preamp smoked it to the ashes. 

I’m a bass lover not for bass quantity but bass quality. Bass is one of the reasons I got V281 for. Sure would be even better if it went even deeper but it’s my headphones that do not go as deep as my 5 feet tall speakers. V281 bass wise, I have zero complaints.


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## 111MilesToGo

Awesome! Thanks for all the recent posts here. Seems like a no-brainer purchase. I will definitely audition the V281 with my Hugo 2 (SE outs) and Senn HD 800 S (on balanced). Not sure yet whether a comparison with and without theV281 is enough; but what other headphone amp to compare to? One that a dealer in Germany has easy access to, so all those American OTL tube amps are not readily available.

And one more question: Should I opt for the stepped volume control right away?


----------



## Fegefeuer

None. The only other headphone amp that would be viable is one of the rarer EU Black Widow 2 amps. Or maybe an updated Ragnarok sometime but that's speculation. I'm not really fond of Schiit amps but their DACs are amazing.
Other than that all other "here to get" headphone amps didn't compare as well. (GSX2, doesn't count as well I know but I've heard it), Taurus, Ragnarok, Phonitor etc.. If you get your V281 just go for the stepped volume control and never look back. 

Sennheiser HD 800 S(D, in my case) is a magnificient pairing with the V281. Spacious, huge and tall soundstage, good depth, layering and cohesion (Not TOTL tube style 3D but still really great.), tight and well controlled bass, very clean, great dynamics. 
HD800 can kick and stomp like mad, it would be shocking to a lot of people who only know it as bright and thin.

Best I've heard the V281 with was the Yggdrasil DAC (v1) but listening to the GumBy right now I'm not so sure anymore (hard to rely on memory).
V281 and GumBy made me regret getting the LCD-2C. Yes, the bass extends better and is cleaner from let's say 20-50Hz but this combo is so superlative right now there is no reason to have any other headphone. :C


----------



## BLacklWf

111MilesToGo said:


> Awesome! Thanks for all the recent posts here. Seems like a no-brainer purchase. I will definitely audition the V281 with my Hugo 2 (SE outs) and Senn HD 800 S (on balanced). Not sure yet whether a comparison with and without theV281 is enough; but what other headphone amp to compare to? One that a dealer in Germany has easy access to, so all those American OTL tube amps are not readily available.
> 
> And one more question: Should I opt for the stepped volume control right away?


On the volume knob, I have the most basic one because I’ve read that the more expensive options sounds better yet may be more prong to mechanical failure. But if you need a remote control then you may not have much option.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 27, 2018)

111MilesToGo said:


> Awesome! Thanks for all the recent posts here. Seems like a no-brainer purchase. I will definitely audition the V281 with my Hugo 2 (SE outs) and Senn HD 800 S (on balanced). Not sure yet whether a comparison with and without theV281 is enough; but what other headphone amp to compare to? One that a dealer in Germany has easy access to, so all those American OTL tube amps are not readily available.
> 
> And one more question: Should I opt for the stepped volume control right away?


 I have the same setup as you. HD800 S and Hugo 2.

You could consider Sennheisers own HDV 820. I did an audition with it and it was really great sounding with HD800S. Compared to Lake People RS 02 It delivered much more bass ,depth and details, and voices was really clearer and strong, coming more from both sides, i guess its the balanced thing working its magic. The only thing i can fear is that it might lack the dynamic attack and be to smooth and cant get gritty with rock. I would love to read your comparision thougths of V281 and HDV 820 .

V281 seems like it have no week points.

HDV 820 is warmer so it might have better synergy with HD 800 S.

I havent heard V281 my self. But i am deciding between those two if i uppgrade amp.

Lake people RS 02/Hugo2/HD 800 S is still very good. I can really enjoy music.

And i also wonder how a volume pot can make so much diffrence in sound?
What does it improve?


----------



## lithiumnk

Can anyone share the international list of authorised distributor / retailer of Violectric amps?
I cannot find the link on their website. 
Thanks


----------



## sahmen

Fegefeuer said:


> None. The only other headphone amp that would be viable is one of the rarer EU Black Widow 2 amps. Or maybe an updated Ragnarok sometime but that's speculation. I'm not really fond of Schiit amps but their DACs are amazing.
> Other than that all other "here to get" headphone amps didn't compare as well. (GSX2, doesn't count as well I know but I've heard it), Taurus, Ragnarok, Phonitor etc.. If you get your V281 just go for the stepped volume control and never look back.
> 
> Sennheiser HD 800 S(D, in my case) is a magnificient pairing with the V281. Spacious, huge and tall soundstage, good depth, layering and cohesion (Not TOTL tube style 3D but still really great.), tight and well controlled bass, very clean, great dynamics.
> ...




If I may ask, what makes the stepped volume remote so superior to the cheaper one?  I am asking because there are some posters who make it sound as if the stepped volume control, somehow gives the V281 a sound quality boost that is superior to what it provides with the cheaper remote volume control option, and that is what I am having a hard time wrapping my head around.  I mean this equation : stepped remote volume control = higher sound quality?? In my own personal case,  I went for the cheaper version of the two remotes, because my impression was that the advantage of the more expensive one simply lay or lies in providing access to a wider range/variety of volume levels; an access, if you will, to a more finely calibrated process of volume control, as opposed to providing an improvement in sq per se (which I still do not understand).

That said, it was never a problem for me to find the appropriate volume level on the V281 in any situation by simply controlling the volume manually.  The remote control was simply to enable me to do that same manual controlling from my listening position without having to make any unnecessary trips to the unit itself. The funny thing is that once the ideal volume is set for a particular headphone (which is never a difficult task to start with), I rarely find myself needing to alter that volume level, so the remote actually sees very little use time,  (as compared to say my tv remote) , especially, since I can't even use it to power on the V281 or power it off after use.  The only time I need to switch volume levels or settings on the v281 is when I change headphones (which I do not do very often), or when I have to set it in pre fader fixed gain mode.  For such a relatively limited frequency of use, I thought the cheaper remote version was more than enough for my needs, which is why I did not go for the more expensive one.

With all that said, I still do not understand why some people seem to associate the superior volume control ability of the more expensive remote with superior sq.  I am genuinely interested in knowing the reason, because if it is indeed true (and I confess to being profoundly skeptical about that), then I would want to upgrade the quality of my sonic enjoyment by getting the more expensive one.

Any further light you or other forum members can shed on this question would be highly appreciated.


----------



## jerick70 (Jul 27, 2018)

@sahmen when adding the relay volume control to the V281 you are actually changing the electronics behind the manual volume knob.  Also, you are adding the electronics to allow it to be remote controlled.  I'm pretty sure that Violectric uses the same remote for both remote controlled volume controls.  So its just not the ir remote that you are adding.

Technically, in audio, a relay network for volume control is superior in many ways.  A few areas that a relay volume control is superior are very important in audio reproduction.  These include, but are not limited to, transparency and channel balance. When I first received my V281, with standard volume control, it was muddy with my LCD-3s.  After I upgraded to the relay volume control the audio performance changed considerably and there was no more muddiness.  These qualities that I mention, I think, would account for the change I heard.  Of course YMMV.    

Here is a good read from Benchmark on why they choose a relay attenuator for their TOTL products.  It explains the different types of volume controls also.  https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/benchmarks-256-step-relay-controlled-attenuator


----------



## andromeda1954

sahmen said:


> If I may ask, what makes the stepped volume remote so superior to the cheaper one?  I am asking because there are some posters who make it sound as if the stepped volume control, somehow gives the V281 a sound quality boost that is superior to what it provides with the cheaper remote volume control option, and that is what I am having a hard time wrapping my head around.  I mean this equation : stepped remote volume control = higher sound quality?? In my own personal case,  I went for the cheaper version of the two remotes, because my impression was that the advantage of the more expensive one simply lay or lies in providing access to a wider range/variety of volume levels; an access, if you will, to a more finely calibrated process of volume control, as opposed to providing an improvement in sq per se (which I still do not understand).
> 
> That said, it was never a problem for me to find the appropriate volume level on the V281 in any situation by simply controlling the volume manually.  The remote control was simply to enable me to do that same manual controlling from my listening position without having to make any unnecessary trips to the unit itself. The funny thing is that once the ideal volume is set for a particular headphone (which is never a difficult task to start with), I rarely find myself needing to alter that volume level, so the remote actually sees very little use time,  (as compared to say my tv remote) , especially, since I can't even use it to power on the V281 or power it off after use.  The only time I need to switch volume levels or settings on the v281 is when I change headphones (which I do not do very often), or when I have to set it in pre fader fixed gain mode.  For such a relatively limited frequency of use, I thought the cheaper remote version was more than enough for my needs, which is why I did not go for the more expensive one.
> 
> ...


 The stepped remote control is only useful if you  listen to a HP not nearby the v281.It will give 
you barely audible difference in sound quality. In a blind test you you will not hear a difference. I had the opportunity to listen to a V281 with and without the stepped remote control for a week .I decided  to keep the one without because in a blind test I could hear a difference and I didn’t need a remote control .If you don’t need a remote control   You better spend the extra money in better cabling the v281 .It will give a much greater audible difference.


----------



## jerick70

lithiumnk said:


> Can anyone share the international list of authorised distributor / retailer of Violectric amps?
> I cannot find the link on their website.
> Thanks


Here is an international distributor that Lake People links to from their website.  I don't see any authorized resellers.

http://www.cma.audio/


----------



## 111MilesToGo

Indeed, @Fegefeuer has linked to technical explanations by Fried Reim in the first post of this thread, one on volume control. Plus, many questions are answered in the FAQ on the Violectric website. Currently, I can‘t reach their German site (under renewal), but their U.S. seems to work. What an amazing amount of literature!


----------



## lithiumnk

jerick70 said:


> Here is an international distributor that Lake People links to from their website.  I don't see any authorized resellers.
> 
> http://www.cma.audio/


Thanks for the link.
I am looking for authorized resellers in south east Asia.


----------



## jerick70

lithiumnk said:


> Thanks for the link.
> I am looking for authorized resellers in south east Asia.


I found this in Singapore.  I'm not sure if they are authorized resellers.  I would send Violectric an email and ask.

https://www.sgshop.com/taobao/tao-bao/searchlist?searchKey=violectric


----------



## JazzVinyl

My v281 and a "dual mono" balanced DAC and proven to sound remarkably better then any single ended rig I have ever tried.
There are details being retrieved from files I am very familiar with that I never dreamed was there to BE decoded.

Has been a real eye (ear) opener.


----------



## LCMusicLover

JazzVinyl said:


> My v281 and a "dual mono" balanced DAC and proven to sound remarkably better then any single ended rig I have ever tried.
> There are details being retrieved from files I am very familiar with that I never dreamed was there to BE decoded.
> 
> Has been a real eye (ear) opener.


Can you tell us what DAC you're using?  Also, what cans you're driving with this chain?

Thanks.


----------



## lithiumnk

jerick70 said:


> I found this in Singapore.  I'm not sure if they are authorized resellers.  I would send Violectric an email and ask.
> 
> https://www.sgshop.com/taobao
> 
> ...


There is munkonggadget in Bangkok, Thailand.
I have opted for the silver one with basic feature ( as it was the last unit).
My shipment is stuck in customs. I hope it clears in few days.
I have selected audioquest water rca-rca interconnect cable between hugo2 & v281.
Let's hope for the best.
Thanks


----------



## JazzVinyl

LCMusicLover said:


> Can you tell us what DAC you're using?  Also, what cans you're driving with this chain?
> 
> Thanks.



XiangSheng DAC-05A and Sennheiser HD600's w/an aftermarket silver cable.


----------



## jerick70

lithiumnk said:


> There is munkonggadget in Bangkok, Thailand.
> I have opted for the silver one with basic feature ( as it was the last unit).
> My shipment is stuck in customs. I hope it clears in few days.
> I have selected audioquest water rca-rca interconnect cable between hugo2 & v281.
> ...


I'm glad you found one!  You are in for a treat!


----------



## sahmen

jerick70 said:


> @sahmen when adding the relay volume control to the V281 you are actually changing the electronics behind the manual volume knob.  Also, you are adding the electronics to allow it to be remote controlled.  I'm pretty sure that Violectric uses the same remote for both remote controlled volume controls.  So its just not the ir remote that you are adding.
> 
> Technically, in audio, a relay network for volume control is superior in many ways.  A few areas that a relay volume control is superior are very important in audio reproduction.  These include, but are not limited to, transparency and channel balance. When I first received my V281, with standard volume control, it was muddy with my LCD-3s.  After I upgraded to the relay volume control the audio performance changed considerably and there was no more muddiness.  These qualities that I mention, I think, would account for the change I heard.  Of course YMMV.
> 
> Here is a good read from Benchmark on why they choose a relay attenuator for their TOTL products.  It explains the different types of volume controls also.  https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/benchmarks-256-step-relay-controlled-attenuator



Thanks for your input and the link. I just learnt a few things I did not know...  I'd probably had done things differently if I had read that information before going for my first remote volume upgrade two years ago...  Now I am not so sure, but thanks again.



andromeda1954 said:


> The stepped remote control is only useful if you  listen to a HP not nearby the v281.It will give
> you barely audible difference in sound quality. In a blind test you you will not hear a difference. I had the opportunity to listen to a V281 with and without the stepped remote control for a week .I decided  to keep the one without because in a blind test I could hear a difference and I didn’t need a remote control .If you don’t need a remote control   You better spend the extra money in better cabling the v281 .It will give a much greater audible difference.



Thanks for your incisive assessment of the SQ performance of the two forms of remote volume upgrades, and especially for reporting the result of your first-hand weeklong comparison of the sonic performances of the two remotes.  I am now realizing that I did not understand completely the differences between the two remote models, when I purchased my first remote upgrade. If I had, I would probably have sprung for the relay remote, just for the theoretically claimed slightly superior SQ enhancements it is supposed to provide.  Now that I have used the standard remote for two years, and thoroughly enjoyed the v281 for those two years, I do not find the idea of sending my unit back to Violectric for another--rather expensive-- upgrade  to be too appealing, especially since the pay-off in real SQ improvement doesn't promise to be exactly and earth-shakingly self-evident, and I wouldn't know what to do with my already existing remote, which I do not want to make simply redundant...

Incidentally, I also sent an inquiry to Arthur at Violectric, and as he usually does, he sent me a very prompt and helpful response, which I am pasting below:
***************
"The standard remote control option uses the same alps potentiometer as the basic V281 with no options, but adds a motor to control the volume level when using the remote.

    The relay version is very different. Instead of using a simple potentiometer to add or remove resistance to change the volume level, the relay option use 14 relays each of which have a fixed resistor attached to them. When you turn the volume knob it uses an algorithm to combine combinations of these resistors by engaging or disabling the associated relay to achieve 128 precise volume steps. You will hear clicking sounds from the unit when you adjust the level since the electro mechanical relays are turning on and off until you reach the desired volume level.

    So the big question, does this offer any advantage? Honestly it is not a huge difference over the standard volume. It does however improve detail and imaging. It's not a night and day difference but an improvement non the less that many are willing to pay for.

    The volume board needs to be changed to a totally different unit for the relay option. So the cost would be the same if you had the remote or not. You may be able to sell the remote board to someone on head-fi looking to upgrade to a remote.

    We install this upgrade to the relay volume for free when you purchase the relay option. You just have to pay for shipping to send the unit to us. You can install it yourself if you're handy but it requires a lot of disassembly and drilling out one hole large.

   I can not say the improvement with the relay volume is superior in performance. Much more precise volume adjustments yes, less crosstalk and better left to right level matching yes, some audible improvement in sound stage and detail yes, a night and day improvement no. "

*******************
Again, as I mentioned very helpful and informative, and I especially like the idea that he does not overpromise on the payoff.


----------



## jerick70

JazzVinyl said:


> XiangSheng DAC-05A and Sennheiser HD600's w/an aftermarket silver cable.


Very nice!  How does the XiangSheng compare to other DACs?


----------



## jerick70

sahmen said:


> Thanks for your input and the link. I just learnt a few things I did not know...  I'd probably had done things differently if I had read that information before going for my first remote volume upgrade two years ago...  Now I am not so sure, but thanks again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Arthur told me the exact same thing about the potential of the relay volume control upgrade when I inquired about it.  I wasn't expecting much.  But when I installed the upgrade I was pleasantly surprised.  It was a huge upgrade.  A few caveats that I thought about with the results... 1) Maybe I had a bad standard volume control?!?!  2) Maybe I'm over sensitive to detail and instrument separation? 3) Maybe I screwed something up when I did the upgrade? Then I spoke with Arthur about my results and he said that some people have had this exact experience when they did the upgrade.  I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.  

I've owned a lot of gear and I have noticed that gear with relay volume controls tend to exhibit the characteristics that I experienced with the upgrade of my V281.  Of course the gear with this type of volume control is TOTL usually.  I didn't listen to that gear with a standard pot, but who knows..... This is a very subjective hobby and everyone has very different instruments between their ears.... So to each their own.

I do know that I *LOVE* the V281 with the relay volume control.  I'm the type of person that buys and sells gear quickly because I want to try the next best thing.  But the V281 has stayed on my desk pretty close to the longest any solid state amp has. I'm a tube guy at heart but the V281 is so convenient and sounds fantastic.  

Now on to rolling some Burson and NewClassD opamps to see if I can squeeze that last little bit of performance out of the venerable V281.


----------



## JazzVinyl

jerick70 said:


> Very nice!  How does the XiangSheng compare to other DACs?



The balanced dual mono DAC gets details I never heard before in music I am very familiar with...

The sound of the chair the musician is sitting in, creaking a bit as they shift positions.  A singers mouth opens, hear the saliva part.
There is texture/space/air/details in, around, above and below each instrument.  Lesser DAC's sound like a flat field, this one sounds like the sound is in context of 
a "space" (a room) where the music is being played.  

Pretty dramatic improvement actually.  I bought the XS not expecting much and was pleasantly surprised at how much I like it.

And of course the V281 just bring that goodness forth in fine form.


----------



## jerick70

I have to say this pairing is excellent with Zu Audio Omen IIs.  So detailed, nuanced, and impactful.  I love the 10" full range drivers. it's a huge upgrade from 6" drivers in my old Sierra IIs.  The Pass ACA power amp is an amazing little performer with only 8 watts and pairs superbly with the V281.  The ACA was a super fun build too, I highly recommend doing a build if you like putting together electronics.


----------



## novicez1 (Jul 29, 2018)

bluenight said:


> Is this a very good amp for the HD800 S?
> Better choice then Sennheisers own HDV 820?
> 
> I would use a SE hugo 2 as dac with unbalanced rca. Would i still get a fully balanced output from the 4 pin xlr then? At least the full output power?
> ...



800S and V281 owner here. They're very good together. Bass is very punchy and extends well.

I demoed the HDV820 with an HD800S back when I was in Japan last month and found that the combo's alright. Not really worth the price IMO.


----------



## bluenight

novicez1 said:


> 800S and V281 owner here. They're very good together. Bass is very punchy and extends well.
> 
> I demoed the HDV820 with an HD800S back when I was in Japan last month and found that the combo's alright. Not really worth the price IMO.


 Do you have the standard volume pot or the most expensive relay steped one?

What did you think V281 does better? 

V281 with HD800 S is not fatiguing in the highs?

Did you listen to the internal dac of the HDV 820? i would be using hugo 2 as dac. 

Maybe you have a better dac when you listen at home with V281 then HDV820s internal dac?


----------



## astrostar59

ardilla said:


> Dropping by to share my review of this friendly beast of an amp:
> 
> *THE VIOLECTRIC V281 REVIEW | The Headphoneer *



Nice review. Can I ask, did you use the balanced 4 pin output or SE on the 6.3mm. I suspect the SE as you found the 200 so similar to the 281?


----------



## astrostar59

fdg said:


> *About line in- and outputs, levels, impedances and cables between.*
> 
> The past days this thread experienced a lively discussion amongst other things about the line outputs of HPA V281, their quality and if they are about to alter the sound – and if yes to the better or to the worse.
> My opinion is that the line outputs from V220 / V281 are altering the sound by at least a very very small fraction (if any) because we worked hard to amend the signals as little as possible.
> ...


----------



## ardilla

astrostar59 said:


> Nice review. Can I ask, did you use the balanced 4 pin output or SE on the 6.3mm. I suspect the SE as you found the 200 so similar to the 281?



Thanks  I used the balanced output all the time. "Similar" is of course a relative term. But since the V281 basically is a dual mono V200 amp module with different PSU and volume control, they are expectede to sound somewhat similar.


----------



## astrostar59

*GOT MINE ORDERED - WHOAAA!*




 


 
So just went ahead and ordered this beast. I have the little Metrum Aurux HP amplifier which is a very simple impedance corrector using 2 x small Lundhai transformers and the optional 6x gain to 6v output. I run it on Unity to my LCD4s. The amp is only 6.3mm jack single ended. 

My DAC is the Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref II, and has a rare 10v output (tube gain stage single ended). So we shall see how it sounds when the amp arrives. I have a Norne Audio Draug all silver balanced cable coming to run to the 4 pin output on the V281. I may have to set some pre-reduction on the V281, not sure yet. Maybe not though, it depends what gain the V281 provides when on 0 setting (default) on the back switches.

The other aspect I am excited about is the positives on here about using it as an active pre-amp feeding a power amp. Currently I use a passive with a very good 48 step pot to feed my Plinius SA-103.It worlds very well, but maybe an active pre in the V281 will beat it. But primarily I am after a top HP amplifier. The LCD4s are hungry, and I am thinking even though I have enough gain on the Aurix the sound quality of the Violectric will surpass it..... will report back in a week or so. If all goes pear shaped I have 30 days to return it (shipping my cost).


----------



## jlbrach

one thing you will never have any problem with is power especially in the balanced mode....the 281 is a beast and unlike most beasts it is also quite delicate sounding...great detail and fine soundstage.....i am a big fan of the pregain settings as well


----------



## 111MilesToGo

I feel a need to ask another technical question wrt the V281 here. It has been indicated a couple of times in this thread, but maybe @fdg could answer with his authority. What is the operating principle, class A or class A/B? Please, Mr. Fried Reim, could you comment on what was chosen for the V281 and why?

PS: My other question regarding the “balanced“ topic was answered VERY satisfactorily. Thanks again.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I think that the V281 should be demoed with the pre-gain setting@-14db as I think it sounds best with that position. 
And if people doubt the power then you can always raise the DIPs.


----------



## astrostar59

Fegefeuer said:


> I think that the V281 should be demoed with the pre-gain setting@-14db as I think it sounds best with that position.
> And if people doubt the power then you can always raise the DIPs.



This is music to my ears (sorry for the pun) as I will probably need to set max defeat with my 10v line out on my DAC. I am unsure if it is to avoid overload on the V281, more to have a usable pot control i.e. not too loud at only 1/4 turn.
ideally I guess loud listing should be at 12'oclock I imagine, so you have fine adjustment and dynamic headroom?

On a typical 2v output DAC and say the LCD2-C, where is the pot when the default pre-fades are all off (0db)? On my little Metrum it is at 2 o'clock for loud listening. If the V281 is at 12 o'clock with the LCD2-C then I reckon my 10v DAC and the LCD4 will be bang on the same thinking how they compare now on the little Metrum amp. i.e the LCD4 is 6dB less loud than the LCD2-C.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 30, 2018)

ardilla said:


> Thanks  I used the balanced output all the time. "Similar" is of course a relative term. But since the V281 basically is a dual mono V200 amp module with different PSU and volume control, they are expectede to sound somewhat similar.


 I read your great and fun to read comparisions as well the other day. And this makes me question the value of the V281 if you sometimes barely here a diffrence from V200 with HD800.

If you added Sennheiser HDV820 in the HD800 comparision one day, i would love to read that.


----------



## astrostar59

bluenight said:


> I read your great and fun to read comparisions as well the other day. And this makes me question the value of the V281 if you sometimes barely here a diffrence from V200 with HD800.
> 
> If you added Sennheiser HDV820 in the HD800 comparision one day, i would love to read that.



I dunno. I have read from members on here, and other reviews, there is a more marked differences on the balanced 4 pin v the 6.3mm SE output jack. But anyway, I will know in a weeks time when my V281 lands coupled to the Norne Draug all Silver balanced cable. I have an SE 6.3 adapter for it as well, so can A/B.

The other things is, the V281 has the later modified V200 boards, so anyone who had the older V200 should see a difference _and some_.

I am a bit nervous about having to use the full pre-fade switches, I hope it isn't going to reduce sound quality? 

I am actually wondering if I might get away without it, as my LCD4 is 6dB less efficient than my LCD2-C, which on my little Aurix amp on 2v input from my other DAC, the LCD2 is on 10 o'clock for loud listening, and the LCD4 is on 2 o'clock. 

On my 10v DAC the LCD4 is back on 10'oclock. In other words the 10v input is 6db difference. Might get away with no pre-fade at all? We shall see.


----------



## jlbrach

I am currently using the -12 setting in balanced mode with the susvara to give you an idea of just how much power the 281 has....


----------



## Fegefeuer (Jul 30, 2018)

you don't lose anything with pre-gain at -14db. On the contrary, you have more room for the volume control which both HD800 and LCD-2 certainly could need as they are easy to drive for the V281.

I'm at 11 o'clock with the HD800 balanced on the track "In Search of Life", Stellaris OST and that's a borderline volume for me. Same for "Africa" by Toto, "Bette Davis Eyes", "China Girl, 1999 remastered"

It's certainly too loud for "nothing's gonna stop us now", "under pressure", "billie jean"

Tracks like "Hotel California" from "Hell freezes over" can take 12 o'clock but I wouldn't recommend it. That amazing bass at the beginning though.


----------



## ardilla

bluenight said:


> I read your great and fun to read comparisions as well the other day. And this makes me question the value of the V281 if you sometimes barely here a diffrence from V200 with HD800.
> 
> If you added Sennheiser HDV820 in the HD800 comparision one day, i would love to read that.



Hm. I definetly find the V281 worth its price. But sometimes good amps are hard to differentiate with certain songs, especially with similarly tuned amps. I try to be honest about that in my track by track comparisons. But over all, the V281 is quite a big improvement, especially in the treble and bass regions.


----------



## jerick70 (Jul 30, 2018)

ardilla said:


> Hm. I definetly find the V281 worth its price. But sometimes good amps are hard to differentiate with certain songs, especially with similarly tuned amps. I try to be honest about that in my track by track comparisons. But over all, the V281 is quite a big improvement, especially in the treble and bass regions.


I have to agree.  I've owned quite a few amps.  IMO the V281 is at the top of all the amps I've listened to and owned.  Especially with the relay attenuator upgrade.  Worth every penny I've spent on it.  I've owned the V200, and the V281 far exceeds the V200 in every way.  I've also own / owned a Woo WA5, MZ2, ModWright LS 100, Many Bursons, Feliks Elise, iFi, Headamp GSX MKII (this was more of a voicing preference), ect...  The only amps that I have listened to that exceeds the V281 is the Apex Pinnacle2 and the First Watt J2 with the Pinnacle2 doing preamp duties.  The Pinnacle2 is hands down incredible, and IMO is the best headamp that I've listened to, but at $12K it far exceeds my budget.    

One other thing that you should take into account is the ability to roll opamps with the V281.  I'm a tweaker and love to upgrade my gear.  I've upgraded opamps in most of my SS gear that allows it.  I'm in the process of purchasing / testing out some Burson discreet v6 opamps.  In my previous SS amps it has made a huge difference in the personality of the amp.  More so than tube rolling in my previous tube amps....


----------



## astrostar59

jlbrach said:


> I am currently using the -12 setting in balanced mode with the susvara to give you an idea of just how much power the 281 has....



Thanks for that info. The Susvara is 83dB and 60ohms, so is less efficient than the 95dB 200 ohms LCD4, which you used to own as well I think? I wonder if the pre-fade is simply switchable resistors? It seems bonkers having a headphone amp to amplify a signal that is already fairly loud / high level. But as we know the output impedance is a big deal, mine is 55ohms so even though it is low for a tube gain stage is way too high for driving a HP. The 1-10 rule applies more or less. Then you need she loads of current and headroom to drive the headphone with maximum control. Then if we drive it with balanced it has even more control over the drivers. This also applies to speakers amps I have found, especially SS amps.

My amp should land end this week, I will report back how if fairs. Need to run it in, and also my Norne Draug all silver won't be here till the end of the following week.

Am hoping this all blow my socks off!!!!


----------



## novicez1 (Jul 31, 2018)

bluenight said:


> Do you have the standard volume pot or the most expensive relay steped one?
> 
> What did you think V281 does better?
> 
> ...



Mostly would be the dynamics, resolution and width. The HDV820 is a little bit hazy relative to the V281, I suspect it has to do with the 20(40 for balanced) ohm output impedance if any.

As for the DAC, I have a Lake People RS06 in balanced mode. I also have some ear time with the Hugo 2(2-3 hours) with V281 and find that the Hugo sounds a bit more aggressive and intimate relative to the RS06.

As for the internal DAC of the HDV820, I have yet to hear a "proper" sabre implementation that will match the 800/800S. I'd probably stay away from them for the time being.(at least according to my ears)

V281 is generally not fatiguing, but it also helps if the characteristics of your DAC is also not too aggressive or bright.

I also have the standard volume pot as I don't think $500++ justify small sound improvements(if there is any), remote control(my setup is beside my PC) and an added annoyance(audible clicking when adjusting volume).


----------



## astrostar59

bluenight said:


> I read your great and fun to read comparisions as well the other day. And this makes me question the value of the V281 if you sometimes barely here a diffrence from V200 with HD800.
> 
> If you added Sennheiser HDV820 in the HD800 comparision one day, i would love to read that.



On your question about brightness. I have found with my setup the choice of USB cable is a definite tuner option. I have the *Curious silver USB cable and the Phasure Lush USB cable*, and they are opposite ends of the spectrum. I favour the Lush at the moment, it's character is warmish, smooth and great body. So that would IMO be a better way to 'tune' you system after you get a new amplifier, not look for an amplifier that is overtly coloured or will tame the energetic treble of the HD800s. Then if you changed HPs later or own a different HP at the same time, it could work with both. These USB cables are much cheaper than selling an amp and buying another at this level.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

novicez1 said:


> ... As for the DAC, I have a Lake People RS06 in balanced mode. I also have some ear time with the Hugo 2(2-3 hours) with V281 and find that the Hugo sounds a bit more aggressive and intimate relative to the RS06.
> 
> As for the internal DAC of the HDV820, I have yet to hear a "proper" sabre implementation that will match the 800/800S. I'd probably stay away from them for the time being.(at least according to my ears)
> 
> ...


Very interesting. Could you please explain what "a bit more aggressive and intimate" means in your evaluation of the Hugo 2?

I agree with your being disappointed by all Sabre DAC implementations. Each one I heard had some faults, some more, some less.


----------



## novicez1

111MilesToGo said:


> Very interesting. Could you please explain what "a bit more aggressive and intimate" means in your evaluation of the Hugo 2?
> 
> I agree with your being disappointed by all Sabre DAC implementations. Each one I heard had some faults, some more, some less.



Aggressive and Intimate = usually the vocals sounds(3~5khz range) more upfront and sound-stage is a bit more narrower. This is with Ultimate filter setting on the Hugo 2 BTW, haven't tried the Hugo HFR, Mojo and Mojo HFR filters on the Hugo 2.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I agree. Very few sabre implementations really work. What I dislike about them is the fuzzy rendering of instruments and their "bodies" and the etched, edgy treble. Bass rendering is one notish as well and lacks punch/slam (not volume)

I favor a DAC like the RS06 before all Sabres.


----------



## novicez1 (Aug 1, 2018)

@Fegefeuer

AK's implementation of the Sabre on its SE100 futura is probably the closest "analogue" sounding sabre I've ever heard. Then again, it does suffer when it comes to note decay and still sounfd a bit "artificial". (Notes play really solid with body, but still comes off unnatural, if that makes any sense. And no, it's not timbre issues.)


----------



## sahmen

If anyone has ever compared the sound of the V281 with the Gustard H20, please share your impressions.   I am contemplating getting another HP amp for a different rig, and considering 3 options : either the Gustard H20, the Monoprice Cavalli Monolith Liquid Platinum (Liquid Crimson), or another V281. The big relative advantage of the H20 and the Liquid Platinum is their prices, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice too much sound quality for that (... If the Liquid Platinum rises to the level of rhe older Liquid Crimson, as it promises to do, for example, I shall go for it, but it is not coming out until October)...

For now, I am interested in how the H20 stacks up against the V281, which I absolutely love.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'd rather opt for a Black Widow 2 even though it's probably very very hard to get. I was recently told the following, and I trust this man a lot. 

"The BW2 has the V281's speed, black background, and liveliness, but is more organic or romantic, moreso in the bass. Where the BW2 fails is driving planars."


----------



## sahmen

Fegefeuer said:


> *Where the BW2 fails is driving planars*."



Well, that rules it out for me, as I have many planars


----------



## 111MilesToGo

111MilesToGo said:


> I feel a need to ask another technical question wrt the V281 here. It has been indicated a couple of times in this thread, but maybe @fdg could answer with his authority. What is the operating principle, class A or class A/B? Please, Mr. Fried Reim, could you comment on what was chosen for the V281 and why?
> 
> PS: My other question regarding the “balanced“ topic was answered VERY satisfactorily. Thanks again.


Please, may I bump this question from two pages back? Thanks for your comments and insight.


----------



## FumblingFoo

I don't know, and I don't think the manual says (could be some kind of custom design), but by process of elimination: 

*Class A?* No, because the v281 doesn't get hot but marginally warm.

*Class B*? Possibly, it has two amps per channel. Depends on if these do push-pull action. Also possible because v281 gets warm but not hot. However, the v281 has a very low THD, lower than some other class A amps like the Schiit Lyr 2 (class A / AB), so it may not be class B either.

*Class AB*? Again, the amp doesn't get hot so it's never operating in class A mode I'm sure.

*Class D*? Most likely not. Lower audio quality and seem to be used for subwoofers in speaker setups.


----------



## LCMusicLover

111MilesToGo said:


> ...What is the operating principle, class A or class A/B?...





> Please, may I bump this question from two pages back? Thanks for your comments and insight.


This review:

Headphone Guru Violectric HPA V281 review

...mentions that the v200 is Class AB.  Since the 281 is supposed to be four v200 amps, I assume that means that the v280/281 are also Class AB.


----------



## jerick70

sahmen said:


> If anyone has ever compared the sound of the V281 with the Gustard H20, please share your impressions.   I am contemplating getting another HP amp for a different rig, and considering 3 options : either the Gustard H20, the Monoprice Cavalli Monolith Liquid Platinum (Liquid Crimson), or another V281. The big relative advantage of the H20 and the Liquid Platinum is their prices, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice too much sound quality for that (... If the Liquid Platinum rises to the level of rhe older Liquid Crimson, as it promises to do, for example, I shall go for it, but it is not coming out until October)...
> 
> For now, I am interested in how the H20 stacks up against the V281, which I absolutely love.





sahmen said:


> If anyone has ever compared the sound of the V281 with the Gustard H20, please share your impressions.   I am contemplating getting another HP amp for a different rig, and considering 3 options : either the Gustard H20, the Monoprice Cavalli Monolith Liquid Platinum (Liquid Crimson), or another V281. The big relative advantage of the H20 and the Liquid Platinum is their prices, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice too much sound quality for that (... If the Liquid Platinum rises to the level of rhe older Liquid Crimson, as it promises to do, for example, I shall go for it, but it is not coming out until October)...
> 
> For now, I am interested in how the H20 stacks up against the V281, which I absolutely love.


I've not heard the H20 but I did own an H10. With Burson opamps it was a beast in sound, drive, and power. Gustard makes very nice kit. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the H10 to someone looking for an excellent low cost headamp. Now the H20 is most likely just as good. I don't see a lot of reviews out there though.


----------



## jerick70

Fegefeuer said:


> I'd rather opt for a Black Widow 2 even though it's probably very very hard to get. I was recently told the following, and I trust this man a lot.
> 
> "The BW2 has the V281's speed, black background, and liveliness, but is more organic or romantic, moreso in the bass. Where the BW2 fails is driving planars."


The other thing that most hi end tube amps fall flat on their face in is affordability. When you have to spend as much or more than the amp is worth on tube replacements to bring out the best in the amp that is a no go in my book. This is exactly why I sold my WA5-LE. I was going to have to shell out well over $3K to get the best tubes. I only paid $2400 for the amp.....


----------



## sahmen

jerick70 said:


> I've not heard the H20 but I did own an H10. With Burson opamps it was a beast in sound, drive, and power. Gustard makes very nice kit. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the H10 to someone looking for an excellent low cost headamp. Now the H20 is most likely just as good. I don't see a lot of reviews out there though.



Thanks.  I used to own the H10, and sold it, not because I did not like the sound but because at that time I was particularly interested in an amp which could drive my He-6 well, and I wound up getting a speaker amp for it. Now the solution I am considering is one that should have all the connectivity options of the V281 and the H20, as seen from the photos, seems to have those, which is mostly what makes the H20 preferable to the H10, and even the Liquid Platinum to me.  On the other hand, I find the Liquid Platinum attractive for its Tube/hybrid construction, and for its status as a Cavalli endorsed "clone-implementation" of his Liquid Crimson, which has an intriguing reputation on Head-fi as a great sounding amp. I expect the competition between the H20 and the Liquid Platinum to be quite intense, but I am looking forward to it.  I wish there were more H20 reviews though.


----------



## jerick70

sahmen said:


> Thanks.  I used to own the H10, and sold it, not because I did not like the sound but because at that time I was particularly interested in an amp which could drive my He-6 well, and I wound up getting a speaker amp for it. Now the solution I am considering is one that should have all the connectivity options of the V281 and the H20, as seen from the photos, seems to have those, which is mostly what makes the H20 preferable to the H10, and even the Liquid Platinum to me.  On the other hand, I find the Liquid Platinum attractive for its Tube/hybrid construction, and for its status as a Cavalli endorsed "clone-implementation" of his Liquid Crimson, which has an intriguing reputation on Head-fi as a great sounding amp. I expect the competition between the H20 and the Liquid Platinum to be quite intense, but I am looking forward to it.  I wish there were more H20 reviews though.


The H10 was mediocre with the stock opamps. But with Burson v5s it was incredible. Lifted the veil and kicked some major a$$. It's only downfall was the SE only output. 

I feel your frustration mate. Exotic head-fi kit is a pita sometimes when you are trying to decide what to get and you can't listen anywhere.  

What I've done in the past is just take the plunge and buy the piece of gear that intrigues me the most. You can usually sell it if you don't like it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Fegefeuer said:


> I agree. Very few sabre implementations really work. What I dislike about them is the fuzzy rendering of instruments and their "bodies" and the etched, edgy treble. Bass rendering is one notish as well and lacks punch/slam (not volume)
> 
> I favor a DAC like the RS06 before all Sabres.



V281 owner/fanboy here. The V281 is the best amp/preamp I've ever heard (I have 4 other amps, 2 of which are also preamps). Each has its positive points, but as a total solution, there's no contest vs the V281...

My first DAC was a sabre implementation (Stello DA100)...could never ameliorate the brightness/edginess of it, no matter what tweaks I tried. 2nd DAC was an inexpensive Sabre implementation (Peachtree Audio DAC iTx) that sounded more natural & less edgy. Was happy with that for awhile.

And then I got the Audio GD NOS 19. End of Story. Later got the AGD DAC-19, more out of curiosity than anything else. 90%+ of what the NOS 19 does, and still way better than any other DAC I'd heard. IMO short of an extreme cost sabre implementation (some are said to sound extremely good), I need multibit for good digital, and NOS multibit for the best sound.j

I've never heard any digital that equals really good analogue, but NOS multibit produces a true alternative version of musical truth IMO.


----------



## 111MilesToGo (Aug 2, 2018)

111MilesToGo said:


> I feel a need to ask another technical question wrt the V281 here. It has been indicated a couple of times in this thread, but maybe @fdg could answer with his authority. What is the operating principle, class A or class A/B? Please, Mr. Fried Reim, could you comment on what was chosen for the V281 and why?
> 
> PS: My other question regarding the “balanced“ topic was answered VERY satisfactorily. Thanks again.





FumblingFoo said:


> I don't know, and I don't think the manual says (could be some kind of custom design), but by process of elimination:
> 
> *Class A?* No, because the v281 doesn't get hot but marginally warm.
> 
> ...





LCMusicLover said:


> This review:
> 
> Headphone Guru Violectric HPA V281 review
> 
> ...mentions that the v200 is Class AB.  Since the 281 is supposed to be four v200 amps, I assume that means that the v280/281 are also Class AB.


Thank you very much for your indicative though indirect answers. There had been a few others with similar outcome in this thread (I tried the Search function, but to little avail only).

Thus, I would like to ask @fdg for an answer. Please forgive me for maybe duplicating older things, and a Big Thank You in advance.

PS: I‘m hoping to audition the V281 at my dealer sometime in the next two or three weeks ... looking forward to it a lot.


----------



## astrostar59

*






Violectric V281 review*

_(Apologies, not my photo, I will take some in a day or so.)_

This amp landed today. I was using the little Metrum Aurix to this point on both my LCD2-C and LCD4s. On the LCD2-C I had the Aurix set to no gain (unity) to more or less it should be straight through albeit with an impedance 'fixer' down to 2 ohms via the Lundhai transformer it uses for that. So dead simple signal path.

No test with the LCD4 yet, as I am on my second system without them at the moment. Also using the standard LCD2 cable which is SE 6.3mm plug.

Right away I can hear more detail and transparency. The soundstage has also expanded, much more 3D and wider, higher and deeper. The instruments are more separated v the Aurix, it is less confused when things get busy. The bass has more authority, is more tuneful and textured. Vocals are smooth and realistic, very detailed, on female vocals never sharp or thin / edgy especially.

Mids are still classic Audeze, but this time more detail and the layering is superb, placement is very easy to work out in the head stage. It is so unfettled, so on the job, seems to be coasting along. Things are not slow or muddy, lack of textures or details, the amount of information is incredible, and I can pick things out that were lost before, masked by other instruments. The best way to describe the mids is to view an old painting, and try to see what is going on, then to see it cleaned and there, it is all there to see. But it is all there without a penalty, harshness or lack of realism in doing it.

The control over the drivers is one olf the most remarkable aspects to this amp, it feels like they are hard wired to the output, really kicking their butt here. The LCD2-C is no slough, but it does sound like it has woken up from it's slumber, like the drivers are going to fly out the frames. In fact it feels like the LCD2-C has just caught up my my LCD4 out of the Aurix, maybe surpassed it. The other odd thing is the transparency has increased, but the treble level seems only marginally higher than the Aurix. It is as though the detail level of what is going on is greater, without an attention of it. Hard to describe.

Track swopping, I notice a bigger difference between music styles and the quality of the recording, acoustics of the venue / studio ect. I leads me to believe the V281 is not colouring or 'beautifying' the incoming signal, really only supercharging it and flinging it out at the headphone, take that you sucker! Ha Ha. This is all good stuff.

*Wow, I like this thing A LOT.*

The little Metrum Aurix is still a great little amp and bear in mind it's then price at about 650 euros. It's soundstage is more intimate, everything is closer together, and it may be struggling a bit to drive my LCD2 and the LCD4s. On the LCD4 in my other system, I have a 10v line out from my DAC, which does wake up the Aurix a bit more to then drive the LCD4s, but.....

It is only the first few hours, and already the sound is changing, the amp heating up. It sounds better even after 3 hours switch on than cold. I think it will have some burn in, this stuff nearly always does, all those capacitors. My DAC took a month of being on 24/7.





_Kassandra DAC with my LCD4s._

Well, I learnt over the last few years a better DAC makes a HUGE difference to the final sound, both on my speaker rig and HPs. Bits are *not* bits. Now I can hear how a better HP amp in the chain has an impact too. I still put the source as tantamount, first to building a good system, the first thing to resolve.

Once the source is correct, great balance has been achieved, then the HP and amp choice follows IMO. I used to have various artificial or brittle sounding DACs that then had to be 'controlled' up stream. That meant favouring a coloured sounding HP or amp. So maybe by chance I end up getting a decent HP amp last, who knows. It seems to be the icing on the cake, completing a nicely balanced system.

Anyway, my thoughts, will shut up now and listen to more music. 

Very very very happy with this V281. If you are after a different amp I would look at this for sure. Especially on the LCD HPs which are already warm and fairly forgiving. I considered a tube amp around the same budget, but was not sure it would add too much to the sound, get too coloured? I wanted to wake things up in the dynamics, really control the LCD4 - Max it Out. 

My DAC is a tube based unit already. I do think it is good to have tubes somewhere in the chain, either in the DAC or the amp, and have used that method for 20 years or more.

So more to come I think. And running it balanced next week when the Draug silver cable lands - to be continued..... big smile on my face.


----------



## astrostar59 (Aug 2, 2018)

[QUOTE="

I've never heard any digital that equals really good analogue, but NOS multibit produces a true alternative version of musical truth IMO.[/QUOTE]

I believe *it is possible* to equal a top TT. My choice to do that would be the Aries Cerat Kassandra Signature Limited Edition. It's an all out assault on digital. An all tube design with 24 AD1865 NOS chips, no filter, fantastic gain stage and tube regulated power supply. It is 2 chassis and weighs 120 kilos. Having met the Designer of it at Munich Hi-End and spoken to a guy who owns one plus the TechDAS AirForce 1 Premium Turntable, it on that same level, right at the top of what digital can do. He told me he used to have the MSB Select II and the Kassandra S LE was better.

You can get close for less by careful choices. I have had quite a few NOS DACs inc the Audio Note (UK) DAC 5 Special, and now the Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref II version. R-2R done well is the answer I am convinced of it, and preferably sans filter i.e straight through, no messing with the data.


----------



## fdg

@ 111MilesToGo
... and others who like to know what class our amps work, if it is A - A/B - B.
Most SS amps work in class-A/B as this is a good measure to avoid zero-crossing distortions compared to class-B.
In former times, when electronics had been not so good, class-A was "invented" to avoid those
zero-crossing distortions by simply raising the idle current to the max.
Those amps showed very good linearity at the expense of dissipating masses of heat.
Well, not so bad in winter, but in Europe - where air condition is not so common - a bad idea in summer 
With modern components it is possible to come across the class-B issues between around -1 V to +1 V voltage swing.
Class-A/B means that there is some idle current and for small signals (little output voltage around 0 to +1 dB = 0,5 to 1V) it is possible that they get through the amp in class-A mode. The larger the amplitude, the more it is class-B.
We at Lake People / Violectric / Niimbus are designing amps with the best available components in Class-A/B.
These are 0,1 and 1% metal film resistors, best PP and PS capacitors, fast and low noise video transistors.
We buy from reliable sources to avoid fake components which can be found in most asian gear !
We achieve lowest possible distortion figures - so there is no need for class-A.

Cheers, Fried


----------



## 111MilesToGo

fdg said:


> @ 111MilesToGo
> ... and others who like to know what class our amps work, if it is A - A/B - B.
> Most SS amps work in class-A/B as this is a good measure to avoid zero-crossing distortions compared to class-B.
> In former times, when electronics had been not so good, class-A was "invented" to avoid those
> ...


Thank you very much indeed for another reasoning and transparency, @fdg! Your amps are transparent, and so are you / is your company.

Cheers, and keep on going strong!
111MilesToGo


----------



## Pharmaboy

astrostar59 said:


> [QUOTE="
> 
> I've never heard any digital that equals really good analogue, but NOS multibit produces a true alternative version of musical truth IMO.



I believe *it is possible* to equal a top TT. My choice to do that would be the Aries Cerat Kassandra Signature Limited Edition. It's an all out assault on digital. An all tube design with 24 AD1865 NOS chips, no filter, fantastic gain stage and tube regulated power supply. It is 2 chassis and weighs 120 kilos. Having met the Designer of it at Munich Hi-End and spoken to a guy who owns one plus the TechDAS AirForce 1 Premium Turntable, it on that same level, right at the top of what digital can do. He told me he used to have the MSB Select II and the Kassandra S LE was better.

You can get close for less by careful choices. I have had quite a few NOS DACs inc the Audio Note (UK) DAC 5 Special, and now the Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref II version. R-2R done well is the answer I am convinced of it, and preferably sans filter i.e straight through, no messing with the data.[/QUOTE]

I'd love to try this DAC--but @~$21K, it's hopelessly expensive for me. I'll have to make do with less expensive options. My next DAC will be the Audio GD R2R 1...with V281 as preamp from its XLR output.

BTW, in response to your experience with the V281 driving the LCD-2Cs...I recently acquired vintage pre-fazor (early) versions of the LCD-2 and LCD-3. The LCD-2 strikes me as more of an all-rounder, doing justice to pretty much any genre of music; while the LCD-3 is more of a specialist, favoring classical/choral/small group jazz genres. But there's no doubt the the V281 drives each one with authority and control that none of my other amps (including some quite good ones) can quite match.


----------



## astrostar59

fdg said:


> @ 111MilesToGo
> ... and others who like to know what class our amps work, if it is A - A/B - B.
> Most SS amps work in class-A/B as this is a good measure to avoid zero-crossing distortions compared to class-B.
> In former times, when electronics had been not so good, class-A was "invented" to avoid those
> ...


Thanks Fried, and may I say (arrived today) got your fabulous V281 hooked up to my Audio Note DAC and the LCD2-C. Hell, it sounds marvelous. So yeah, Class A/B is cool. I have a big Plinius power amp that runs either 200 watts full class A or class A/B switchable to my speakers. In A/B mode it is about 5 watts of pure class A, then moves to A/B. It seems to work well. In full class A the heatsinks get really hot, almost too hot to touch. And it eats about 850 watts of mains on 230v.

In class A is sounds a bit softer (very slightly) and more tube amp style, more organic and real? In A/B the bass is more controlled amongst other things. I prefer class A for serious listening on it. If your amp was pure class A, it would pump out a LOT of heat, so it would need big heatsinks on the side and the chassis would need to be twice as big I think. Also even though amps on class A are designed for it, it is inevitable the parts inside will get hotter, so capacitor life and other components will have a shorter life span.

I love this V281, can't wait till I can try out as balanced output for the HP. And later on my LCD4s and better DAC. And pitch it against my passive pre amp in my speaker system. Might be interesting?
This amp is well worth the money IMO, I can't fault it to be honest. I like the looks ad well, chunky facia, small width and height but deep, works well in a rack.

Does the V281 use any feedback?


----------



## jerick70

astrostar59 said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful DAC.  Is it worth the asking price?


----------



## astrostar59

jerick70 said:


> Beautiful DAC.  Is it worth the asking price?



Hell yes! It is the absolute best analogue / natural sound I have ever heard from a DAC. Before I got it I had the Audio Note (UK) DAC 5 which is also an R-2R chip with great tube regulated power supply and tube gain stage, no filtering, no up sampling. But the Kassandra is on another level, huge dynamics, wide open gate for detail and micro detail (it has no coupling caps in the signal path). Bass that is the best digital bass I have ever heard, one thing digital can lag behind good vinyl. And super smooth natural treble. Then the liquid midrange, I could go on.

Before I ordered it, I demoed other top DACs, inc the Chord DAVE, CH Precision C1, Naim CD555 (used), MSB Platinum IV with Signature Power Base, Lampizator Golden Gate with discrete digital board, various Meridian DACs. I can't recommend the Kassandra highly enough. It just works, so so right....


----------



## Fegefeuer

huh

once your headphones run balanced on the V281 this thread might explode given the current summer's heat here in Germany.


----------



## astrostar59

Fegefeuer said:


> huh
> 
> once your headphones run balanced on the V281 this thread might explode given the current summer's heat here in Germany.



Indeed. In Spain it is 47°C in Madrid, ouch....

Here is the Norne Draug All Silver that I will use on the LCD4s balanced.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Aug 3, 2018)

Beautiful.

What does it cost and when will it arrive? I've seen a "Violectric" silver cable for the LCD series and it was much better than any stock including the official expensive option. Very thick wires as well.


----------



## astrostar59 (Aug 3, 2018)

The Norne Draug all silver is a special order. Trevor makes quite a few very high standard cables. There is a dedicated thread on here for those interested, plenty of glowing reports on them. For the all silver balanced 2m with LCD4 plugs it is about 700 USD depending on the choice of plugs both ends. I believe it is a very good price for a silver cable. Will report back on how it sounds.

More models here:


----------



## astrostar59

*Sound level on SE v Balanced output to the headphone*
I am curious, what sound level change is there (if any) from using the SE 6.3mm output v the single 4 pin XLR output? If the V281 uses both amplifiers, not just one, does that mean you need to reduce the volume pot for the same music level? I am looking forward to trying my LCD2-C and LCD4 on balanced, it has always been on SE only.


----------



## jlbrach

yes,using balanced you will need a lower volume level


----------



## astrostar59

Ok thanks for that.


----------



## lithiumnk (Aug 4, 2018)

Hello
After almost reading the entire v281 thread. (250 pages)
I have learnt a lot.
I would like to share my journey in acquiring my first desktop grade amp briefly.
I am cross  posting from audeze lcd i4 thread.
I have seen many people (including me) seeking for iem and hugo2 pairing with v281.

Let's begin.
My lcd i4 is almost a year old and still they never cease to amaze me.
They scale very well with desktop grade dac/amps due to their maximum power handling up to 3 watts as well as a low sensitivity of 100 dB/1mw at 30 ohms as compared to other high end iems.

I am into portable audio gear and slowly trying to build a good desktop setup .
I was searching for good desktop grade amp which pairs with my hugo2 and lcd i4.
My main aim was to find such an amp that did not affected the transparency, imaging, airiness,black background or induce any type of coloration etc. of my small yet powerful ch2 /lcdi4 setup.
After a lot of search and suggestions by fellow headfiers including @EagleWings  , I decided to take a dive in an ever expanding ocean of desktop amps.
(FYI I am planning to buy a headphone in near future.)
My sound preference is neutral with hint of warmth, good bass quantity/ quality and well extended non sibilant trebles and forward, lush midrange , 3D soundstage,black background, full and non fatiguing sound.
There are few amps in the range of usd2k - 3k which met my criteria .( which I know of)

They are as follows (random list)(SS amps)

1. Head amp gsxmk2
2. Violectric v281
3. Bryston bha-1
4. Taurus mk2

Btw none of the amps are available in my country.

So no chance of any audition. It was going to be a sort of blind purchase. But there is lot to read about the above mentioned amps on headfi.

After reading about them and their comparison I went ahead and bought violectric v281 silver faceplate/feet basic model with no dac / relay option.

I like the flexibility of v281 and the sound signature which matched my preference.
They pair with iems to low sensitivity headphones very well and can act as preamp to my speakers.



Double helix ultrashort adapter 4 pin xlr to 2.5 mm balanced with eidolic parts








Hugo 2 rca out connected to v281 via audio quest water rca cables.( I believe in cables )



V281 balanced out to 2.5mm EA Horus + lcd i4.

I will be describing the impressions in detail after few weeks (complete burn in).

I can say one thing for sure that there is no hiss .
The dynamics ,bass slam, imaging and transparency are very good . No coloration.
Most important a black background .

I urge lcd i4 owners to try a desktop grade amp.
You will be amazed to know the limits of a 12 gm in ear headphone and how it can compete with the best open back headphones .

Thanks

EDIT : I am at 0 gain. No hum/noise. I will try other pregain settings.


----------



## astrostar59

My Norne Druag all Silver balanced cable for my LCD4s arrives tomorrow, so will post impressions of finally trying the V281 on both amps (dual amp output).

Sounds damb good already on SE 6.3mm plug.


----------



## astrostar59

*Norne Draug All Silver Balanced headphone cable & the V281









*
My cable arrived today. 2 days from USA to UK, incredible. Anyway, much more incredible is the way it sounds. In my second system at the moment, with my Audio Note DAC and the Audeze LCD2-C 2018 model.

Over stock cable which is SE and 6.3mm plug and using the balanced out of the V281

*1. First thing you notice is the dynamics. *
Much bigger, faster, more direct, as though the planers are now hard wired to the source. More horsepower going on here. The LCD2-C are really moving up a notch, coming alive from a slumber on SE connection and with stock cable. It takes you by surprise when the music has a big dynamic swing, it certainly is very realistic.

*2. Transparency.*
Oh my, this is much more transparent, a veil has been pealed away here. So much so I defeated the 2dB 6kz-12khz lift I had set in Roon. Don't need that now. Not only that, tiny details and multiple detail is coming through at once, that was slightly masked or confused before. This is all good, still super smooth and zero fatigue as you would expect from the Audeze and this amp. This is a really good setup. I can't believe I paid 700 USD for the LCD2-C on the sale at Audeze earlier his year, this level of sound has no place in a sub 2K headphone, never mind 1K IMO. The decay and detail reminds me of my Stax 009, though in this case it feels more in place and planted in the whole image as opposed to floating over the top of everything.

*3. Midrange*
This has increased in 3 dimensions, depth, width and height. And very complex passages re easy to understand, pick out separate instruments, understand the way it was recorded more than before. No hint of edge to female  vocals, and Rammstein's screaming guitars sound spot on to my ears, enough bite without shutting my ears down.

*4. Bass*
The bass is a bit more tuneful and as the detail has gone up in the treble and mids, it also has more texture here. It goes just as deep as the stock cable, can't hear a change there yet, but I can pick out more detail here.

*5. Construction*
I am not a fanboy for the looks of any audio gear. But it is nice when it sounds better than your previous gear AND looks better as well. The build quality trevor is getting here is fantastic, a work of art. The cable looks thick in the photos, but it is very light and super flexible. Think grass snake, light, bendy and no wire memory. It also came with a nice slip bag, useful if you are into portable solutions.

This is marvellous, the sound signature has shifted slightly up into more detail, but there is no price to pay that I can hear. In other words have your cake and eat it too. I think this cable will upgrade any amp and HP combination TBH, it seems to get right down to what is going on, removed the distance between you and the source if you like. Unless you are after specific tone control effect (some form of masking) I would say it is a win win here. 

Note, some of my gains may be also down to the V281 now firing on both amps via the balanced output. Note I am feeding it Single Ended from my DAC, which I was told is fine to still get the benefit of both of the V200 amps working in the V281. Now I am wondering what my main DAC and my LCD4s will sound like. Later......


----------



## lithiumnk

astrostar59 said:


> *Norne Draug All Silver Balanced headphone cable & the V281
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice pics.
The cable looks like a gem in itself.
Silver really shines with warm planar headphones especially audeze lcd2.
Waiting for your lcd 4 impression.
Btw I am surprised to see v281 still going strong even after 4 years. Stellar SS amp.
Cheers


----------



## FumblingFoo (Aug 9, 2018)

lithiumnk said:


> Btw I am surprised to see v281 still going strong even after 4 years. Stellar SS amp.



Yes, I've noticed a recent surge in interest. Perhaps Niimbus won't market cannibalize the Violectric brand like a v282 or 284 would the v281 .


----------



## bluenight

lithiumnk said:


> .
> Btw I am surprised to see v281 still going strong even after 4 years. Stellar SS amp.
> Cheers


Isnt the most advancement in audio coming from dacs? As number cruncing computing always goes forward fast. 

Is there much new to innovate in analog amps?


----------



## Pharmaboy

bluenight said:


> Isnt the most advancement in audio coming from dacs? As number cruncing computing always goes forward fast.
> 
> Is there much new to innovate in analog amps?



Don't forget/leave out class D amplifiers, which from what I can tell have yet to make inroads into high end headphone audio. Their advantage would be miniaturization of headphone amplifiers--and/or the provision of greater power output per component size than would otherwise be available.

I recently purchased a high quality used stereo class D amp (Wyred4Sound ST500) which I used to power my equally high quality passive monitors (ATC SCM12 Pro's). Before making this purchase I read for quite awhile on class D amps and their gradual development, refinement/improvement, and increasing acceptance in high-end 2-channel audio. 

Imagine a DAC/amp with great power output that's no bigger than a pack of cigarettes--that isn't a Hugo and doesn't cost that much.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Will my Violectric amp benefit from a better dac than the dragonfly red. If so what would the cost be?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Luke Thomas said:


> Will my Violectric amp benefit from a better dac than the dragonfly red. If so what would the cost be?



Probably yes--but the answer depends at least in part on your headphones and genres of music you listen to.

If you look for high resolution and natural tonal representation of music that shows those things off, then you can spend as much on a DAC as on the Violectric (so many possibilities for DAC).


----------



## FumblingFoo (Aug 9, 2018)

Luke Thomas said:


> Will my Violectric amp benefit from a better dac than the dragonfly red. If so what would the cost be?





Pharmaboy said:


> Probably yes--but the answer depends at least in part on your headphones and genres of music you listen to.
> 
> If you look for high resolution and natural tonal representation of music that shows those things off, then you can spend as much on a DAC as on the Violectric (so many possibilities for DAC).



Speaking of which, I've only come across a couple of in-depth reviews about the v850. It sounds even better with the DAT RS 05 IMO, but does anyone have an opinion on how the v850 itself performs? Does it perform at its price range? Above? What does it compete with now? The v850 topic here is a lot shorter and seems to draw a lot less interest than the v281. A disappointment, I'm a happy customer at least.


----------



## jerick70

Luke Thomas said:


> Will my Violectric amp benefit from a better dac than the dragonfly red. If so what would the cost be?


I would have to say absolutely it will. 

What are you looking to have your dac do better?

FYI... The XMOS DAC upgrade board that Violectric sells for the V281 is outstanding.  If you listen to  DSD or MQA it will not do those formats though.


----------



## Pharmaboy

FumblingFoo said:


> Speaking of which, I've only come across a couple of in-depth reviews about the v850. It sounds even better with the DAT RS 05 IMO, but does anyone have an opinion on how the v850 itself performs? Does it perform at its price range? Above? What does it compete with now? The v850 topic here is a lot shorter and seems to draw a lot less interest than the v281. A disappointment, I'm a happy customer at least.



Never heard any Violectric DAC so can't directly answer.

But IMO the DAT RS 05 is most interesting. Finally met Arthur of Violectric USA at NYC CanJam...he had one hooked up to the DAC + V281 system there (which I didn't hear--way too crowded for listening). But he told me some who own other endgame DACs use them w/the DAT RS 05.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Luke Thomas said:


> Will my Violectric amp benefit from a better dac than the dragonfly red. If so what would the cost be?


The answer to that is an emphatic yes. I’m actually really surprised that anyone would find their way to owning an amp as expensive as the V281 while still having a Dragonfly. Not to knock the Dragonfly at all—I used to have one and it’s an excellent product—but if you want to maximize the potential of an amp as badass as the V281 you gotta kick your dac game up accordingly. I’d say at least the internal Violectric dac module or a Schiit Modi Multibit. V800 dacs are pretty cheap used nowadays as well. You do raise an interesting question about how much to spend on components to maximize your dollars/sound quality ratio. If I had about $1800 to spend on a dac and amp I don’t know if putting $1600 towards the amp alone is the way I’d go, but others might disagree.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Malcolm Riverside said:


> The answer to that is an emphatic yes. I’m actually really surprised that anyone would find their way to owning an amp as expensive as the V281 while still having a Dragonfly. Not to knock the Dragonfly at all—I used to have one and it’s an excellent product—but if you want to maximize the potential of an amp as badass as the V281 you gotta kick your dac game up accordingly. I’d say at least the internal Violectric dac module or a Schiit Modi Multibit. V800 dacs are pretty cheap used nowadays as well. You do raise an interesting question about how much to spend on components to maximize your dollars/sound quality ratio. If I had about $1800 to spend on a dac and amp I don’t know if putting $1600 towards the amp alone is the way I’d go, but others might disagree.


Yes I might find out, many say dacs are over rated


----------



## apollogreed

Hey guys, I need some help. Currently I'm running Line outs from my RME UFX into my V281 then into my HD800s, and I've been thinking of getting the V281 it's own dedicated DAC. Can anyone recommend me a good DAC? I'm looking to spend between 1000 - 3000$. Since I use my headphones for mixing I tend to value more neutral sound signatures. I'm hoping the new set up with the DAC would be better then my current set up


----------



## zhgutov

apollogreed said:


> Hey guys, I need some help. Currently I'm running Line outs from my RME UFX into my V281 then into my HD800s, and I've been thinking of getting the V281 it's own dedicated DAC. Can anyone recommend me a good DAC? I'm looking to spend between 1000 - 3000$. Since I use my headphones for mixing I tend to value more neutral sound signatures. I'm hoping the new set up with the DAC would be better then my current set up


Hmm, Violectric V850 or Lake People DAC RS 06? I use V800 with RS 0*5*.
This combination is pretty neutral, natural and musical.
It has very good linearity, so it can be used both to control sound and to enjoy music.


----------



## 111MilesToGo (Aug 16, 2018)

I auditioned the Violectric HPA V281 yesterday at my dealer, using my Chord Hugo 2 DAC and my Sennheiser HD 800 S headphone. (Remark: Cables were AudioQuest RCA Golden Gate from Hugo SE output into the V281 SE input, and both the SE and balanced Sennheiser stock cables into the 800 S.)

In short - wow! I am truely amazed at what the V281 can do for a Hugo 2 / HD 800 S combo, given that both the DAC and the HP are just among the very capable ones. The V281 leaves all - ever so often lauded - technical features of the Hugo 2 intact or even betters them, in particular power and authority, and in particular again in the bass department. Please forgive me for not going into more details here.

Plus, what was most amazing: Going up the ladder

SE 6.3 mm headphone out from the Hugo 2 to the 800 S,
Hugo 2 RCA SE output in fixed voltage (3 V) line-out mode into the V281 SE input (-12 dB or -6 dB input gains, resp.) , and then
SE 6.3 mm headphone output from V281 into 800 S, or
balanced headphone output from V281 into 800 S,

made the smile on my face broader and broader with every step. The entire presentation did transcend more at every step, ending up with a very "musical", organic entity. Great soundstage, every instrument / hands on the piano etc could be clearly identified without spending even the slightest effort on it. It is this magic of a "musical", organic entity (words do fail me to describe this) that makes the whole effort worth it. I can just vote here (okay, just my 2 cents) for the Hugo 2 as a DAC combined with the HD 800 S, which is a combo where every good characteristics is brought to a maximum (well, probably not THE maximum, whatever that might be to every individual) when the V281 is inserted into the chain. It takes the balanced input to the 800 S to work best. And my gut feeling is to go for the stepped relais volume attenuator, @Fegefeuer ... Furthermore, I consider this a "balanced" chain given that the price points of each of the three components are roughly in the same range, plus cables.

Well, I'll think it all over and recap my experiences in my head...

I listened to acoustic music only, symphonic, small jazz ensemble, solo piano, since I think such recordings should be among the natural ones.

@apollogreed, you might read this as a recommendation regarding your question right above.

PS: Two more remarks. Probably, the AudioQuest Golden Gate RCA cable maybe is not on a similar footing as the other components. And I did compare the V281 to another headphone amp at approx. 2/3 of the price point - too bad for that device, no match to the V281 (don't like to say what  brand, please).


----------



## Luke Thomas

apollogreed said:


> Hey guys, I need some help. Currently I'm running Line outs from my RME UFX into my V281 then into my HD800s, and I've been thinking of getting the V281 it's own dedicated DAC. Can anyone recommend me a good DAC? I'm looking to spend between 1000 - 3000$. Since I use my headphones for mixing I tend to value more neutral sound signatures. I'm hoping the new set up with the DAC would be better then my current set up


 im looking for a dac also. A few have suggested i need to spend over $1000 on a dac to beat my $200 dragon fly red.. I might do the Shiit product since they have a return policy.


----------



## jerick70

apollogreed said:


> Hey guys, I need some help. Currently I'm running Line outs from my RME UFX into my V281 then into my HD800s, and I've been thinking of getting the V281 it's own dedicated DAC. Can anyone recommend me a good DAC? I'm looking to spend between 1000 - 3000$. Since I use my headphones for mixing I tend to value more neutral sound signatures. I'm hoping the new set up with the DAC would be better then my current set up


For neutral sounding DACs here are a few DACs you may want to look at:

1) RME ADI-2 DAC or Pro
2) Wyred4Sound DAC-2V2
3) Exasound E32 MKII
4) Benchmark DAC3 HGC


----------



## FumblingFoo

zhgutov said:


> Hmm, Violectric V850 or Lake People DAC RS 06? I use V800 with RS 0*5*.
> This combination is pretty neutral, natural and musical.
> It has very good linearity, so it can be used both to control sound and to enjoy music.



Yes I'd like to vouch for the DAT RS 05 as well. Playing around with the up and down sampling can yield some interesting sonic results. After software upsampling a 176khz stream to 192khz, I then downsampled back to 176khz with the DAT RS 05 and the music sounded clearer and crisper than being stuck with the 192khz out. Again, I discovered that the sound gets a bit thinner and, well, maybe not lifeless but clinical when 4x upsampling, a good plus for pairing headphones. IIRC downsampling a 192khz stream to 96khz seems to do something too. Very interesting piece of equipment the DAT RS 05 is.


----------



## zhgutov (Aug 16, 2018)

FumblingFoo said:


> Yes I'd like to vouch for the DAT RS 05 as well. Playing around with the up and down sampling can yield some interesting sonic results. After software upsampling a 176khz stream to 192khz, I then downsampled back to 176khz with the DAT RS 05 and the music sounded clearer and crisper than being stuck with the 192khz out. Again, I discovered that the sound gets a bit thinner and, well, maybe not lifeless but clinical when 4x upsampling, a good plus for pairing headphones. IIRC downsampling a 192khz stream to 96khz seems to do something too. Very interesting piece of equipment the DAT RS 05 is.


This is probably due to different added jitter level at the _input side_ of the DAC.
It seems like the resampling algorithm itself does not affect the sound.
At least, my expiriments confirm that.
The best possible jitter for V800+RS05 is @ 88.2 kHz sample rate.
It sounds slightly more transparent and precise, IMO.
I think the different DACs, even V850 or RS06 can have different effect here.
This is a complex system, there are lots of variables, so you need to expirement here.


----------



## FumblingFoo (Aug 16, 2018)

Yeah. Actually today is the first day I started trying this lol . I'm starting to notice a bit more keenness in my hearing for say low vs high bitrate songs and some other sonic qualities too, especially with some of the music from hdtracks. Really surprised me that I was hearing a difference, looks like I wasn't too far off the mark at least .


----------



## Fegefeuer

For anyone curious. John Grandberg's Niimbus US4 review is up, with comparisons to the V281.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rev...r-includes-large-high-end-amp-roundup.886668/


----------



## jerick70

Fegefeuer said:


> For anyone curious. John Grandberg's Niimbus US4 review is up, with comparisons to the V281.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rev...r-includes-large-high-end-amp-roundup.886668/


Ooooohhhhh This looks tasty.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Fegefeuer said:


> For anyone curious. John Grandberg's Niimbus US4 review is up, with comparisons to the V281.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rev...r-includes-large-high-end-amp-roundup.886668/



just WOW


----------



## astrostar59

Fegefeuer said:


> For anyone curious. John Grandberg's Niimbus US4 review is up, with comparisons to the V281.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rev...r-includes-large-high-end-amp-roundup.886668/



Nice. But it has now pushed into a very high price bracket, so really has to come out all fighting IMO. The V281 is so good and for the price, the options and the way it powers almost any headphone with ease. My view, unless the Niimbus is totally off the scale better, is spend that 5K on a better front end, unless you already have a world class DAC. I find big changes came when I upgraded my DAC. Most DACs I find have a very poor gain stage and weak power supplies, aside from the digital conversion methods. Top HPs are like a 50K+ speaker, so require a top source. In other words, I think once you get to a V281 level the next thing to consider is what is feeding it, not necessarily change the amp.


----------



## jlbrach

chord dave and 281


----------



## jerick70

Taking about dacs and the V281. The Matrix X-Sabre Pro is a nice match with the newest firmware.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I've used both the Audio GD NOS 19 (my fave) & the DAC-19 w/the V281.

IMHO multibit is essential to synergize with the slightly warm, weighty tonality out of this terrific amp.


----------



## jerick70

I have a R-28 coming in this next week.  We will see how it compares to my other DS DACs.


----------



## 13713

I have a V850 that has been great with the 281 for a few years. If you want to keep within the same company you cannot go wrong with that combo.


----------



## Pharmaboy

jerick70 said:


> I have a R-28 coming in this next week.  We will see how it compares to my other DS DACs.



I look forward to your comments! That's a really nice AGD box, there.

Its DAC section is said to be identical to the new, balanced FPGA-controlled R2R 1 DAC (which I'll get this fall). The advantage of that design, from what I read, is that you can get 3 different, true NOS modes + various oversampling/multibit modes (a couple of which are switchable from the front panel).

The other BIG advantage to this design is that, assuming the ACSS output is switched to an RCA output pair (I always do this)...there's a total of 3 live outputs (2 X RCA; 1 X balanced/XLR) that can operate simultaneously. For one such as me, who routinely uses 1 amp/preamp as system preamp and another amp as a second HP amp, this opens up exciting operational possibilities...


----------



## jerick70

13713 said:


> I have a V850 that has been great with the 281 for a few years. If you want to keep within the same company you cannot go wrong with that combo.


I have the XMOS DAC board in my V281.  It's very good with the V281.  The V850 looks like it would be a monster DAC.


----------



## jerick70

Pharmaboy said:


> I look forward to your comments! That's a really nice AGD box, there.
> 
> Its DAC section is said to be identical to the new, balanced FPGA-controlled R2R 1 DAC (which I'll get this fall). The advantage of that design, from what I read, is that you can get 3 different, true NOS modes + various oversampling/multibit modes (a couple of which are switchable from the front panel).
> 
> The other BIG advantage to this design is that, assuming the ACSS output is switched to an RCA output pair (I always do this)...there's a total of 3 live outputs (2 X RCA; 1 X balanced/XLR) that can operate simultaneously. For one such as me, who routinely uses 1 amp/preamp as system preamp and another amp as a second HP amp, this opens up exciting operational possibilities...


I'm looking forward to it.  We will see how it fairs. This will be my second R2R DAC.  The first wasn't to my liking.  That was an R2R on a chip though and this is a discrete monster so we will see.  I have high hopes.


----------



## Fegefeuer

FumblingFoo said:


> Yes, I've noticed a recent surge in interest. Perhaps Niimbus won't market cannibalize the Violectric brand like a v282 or 284 would the v281 .



Well, their respective price brackets do have quite a gap between them so even if there might be overlap it surely will be very small. Not easy to fork out 4 to 5k instead of 2-2,5.

Sooner or later V281 and V280 will get successors as well but that is surely very far away and a good thing since other exciting stuff is ahead and Niimbus needs DACs and a few other interesting entries. 
There's no hurry to change these amps in the near future but there will be changes.



jerick70 said:


> Ooooohhhhh This looks tasty.





Pharmaboy said:


> just WOW



The review aligns very well with my impressions from Munich. The US4+ is a really nice step up from the V281. As the saying goes: "Das Bessere ist des Guten Feind"

This is for you Fried:


----------



## smodtactical (Sep 10, 2018)

Anyone compare the V281 to the HE-9?


----------



## smodtactical

project86 said:


> I've had a pair of V281's here in the past - one with the standard volume pot, and one with the maxxed out relay/remote. I listened back and forth quite a bit. I would explain it like so:
> 
> The remote may be useful depending on your needs. But you can get that without the relay-based volume control if that part is all you need. So don't upgrade all the way just because you want a remote.
> 
> ...



Sorry for quote/question... but whats wrong with Milo? In the milo thread its praised to the high heavens as being a step up from Master 9, 430HA and V281! :O


----------



## project86

Without going too far in depth, I just find it overly warm and soft. Plus from a design perspective it is just a chassis stuffed with crap, with seemingly little concern for best design practices. Plus the Bybee Quantum Purifiers, the massive amount of gain, the questionable specs (output at various ohms doesn't make sense)... There's more, but this is enough already.

If someone listened to it and loved it, more power to them. I'll just say it's not a good fit for me and move along.


----------



## smodtactical

project86 said:


> Without going too far in depth, I just find it overly warm and soft. Plus from a design perspective it is just a chassis stuffed with crap, with seemingly little concern for best design practices. Plus the Bybee Quantum Purifiers, the massive amount of gain, the questionable specs (output at various ohms doesn't make sense)... There's more, but this is enough already.
> 
> If someone listened to it and loved it, more power to them. I'll just say it's not a good fit for me and move along.



Which headphones did you use with it? How does it compare to v281, moon 430ha and m9 ?


----------



## koven

I think V281 is the best amp under $2K. It is so good for the price and pairs well w/ every headphone.


----------



## smodtactical

koven said:


> I think V281 is the best amp under $2K. It is so good for the price and pairs well w/ every headphone.



What other amps have you heard ?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Does this amp produce live remixes due to all that cabling? Abysmal workmanship and wiring.


----------



## apollogreed

Has anyone here picked up and experimented with aftermarket power cords for their V281?


----------



## Pharmaboy

I sorta/kinda did. Just due to component confusion on desktop, pretty sure the V281's stock cable is plugged into something else now, and a Magic Power  cable (by Signal Cable) is plugged into the V281. I never noticed any difference.

Then again, the V281 is so over-engineered & -built that it may be more impervious to subtle power cable distinctions than other audio gear.


----------



## Fegefeuer

You have "trash" lines running through your house, building and suddenly a power cable should make a difference? How is that supposed to happen?

If you want better, cleaner power then try power conditioning. Helped in my case for instance and made a difference. Not for the V281 but for the GumBy.


----------



## Cobold

apollogreed said:


> Has anyone here picked up and experimented with aftermarket power cords for their V281?



I use Isotek Aquarius with Isotek Elite cable.
For me this shows the quality of V281 even better.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Heard a lot of good things about the Isotek but it surely has its price. Separate filters for each connector is mandatory.

I'm using the Furman AC-210 El Cheapo method and it worked. However I recommend only one device per Furman. Two devices go through the same filtration (since it's shared) and ultimately suffer.


----------



## Cobold

I recently had the chance to try the Pass HPA-1 in my chain.
To make it short. Fairly disappointing to my ears.
I did the comparision to V281 with different headphones but always the V281 showed more dynamics more clarity more subtleties in the music.
This was absolutely not what I expected. 
V281 has remote control, balanced in and output and the lower price tag.
I really expected more from the big name Pass.


----------



## koven

Cobold said:


> I recently had the chance to try the Pass HPA-1 in my chain.
> To make it short. Fairly disappointing to my ears.
> I did the comparision to V281 with different headphones but always the V281 showed more dynamics more clarity more subtleties in the music.
> This was absolutely not what I expected.
> ...



I had a similar experience.. except it was with the Moon 430HA instead of HPA-1. V281 is a bargain, superb bang for buck.


----------



## jlbrach

agreed,the 281 is as good as it gets unless you spend far more money...i use it with my dave/blu2 combo and my susvara and occasionally my abyss phi


----------



## sahmen

jlbrach said:


> agreed,the 281 is as good as it gets unless you spend far more money...i use it with my dave/blu2 combo and my susvara and occasionally my abyss phi



Nice to hear... Do you consider the V281 to be optimal, or near-to-optimal for the Susvara and the Abyss Phi, as compared to other amps you're familiar with?


----------



## jlbrach

I had moon 430 and the 281 is better. The 281 is the equal of anything I have heard less than 5k. Others may disagree


----------



## sahmen

Good to know...  I have both the Susvara and the Abyss Phi on my wishlist, so it encouraging to know I wouldn't need to go amp-hunting were I to acquire one of those two eventually.


----------



## Badas

jlbrach said:


> I had moon 430 and the 281 is better. The 281 is the equal of anything I have heard less than 5k. Others may disagree


I found the 430 was seriously rolled off. I could hear hiss recording tape on the V281 and it wasn't there on the 430. Hell I could hear the hiss of the tape even on my tube amp. So the 430 was seriously scrubbing off treble detail. Not good for a SS amp.


----------



## Badas

jlbrach said:


> I had moon 430 and the 281 is better. The 281 is the equal of anything I have heard less than 5k. Others may disagree


I found the 430 was seriously rolled off. I could hear hiss recording tape on the V281 and it wasn't there on the 430. Hell I could hear the hiss of the tape even on my tube amp. So the 430 was seriously scrubbing off treble detail. Not good for a SS amp.


----------



## jlbrach

i think you are being too hard on the 430 which i thought was good but the 281 is better...it has tons of power and i love the pre gain feature which really makes it easy to adjust to the HP you are using


----------



## Badas

It wasn't just me. I had a mate and we listened to the same track on 4 different amps. Woo WA22, 430, 230 and V281. 430 was scrubbing treble detail. Both of us heard it. We were floored that the tube amp was letting the detail through and the 430 was not.
Seriously flawed the 430 was sold the next week.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Badas said:


> It wasn't just me. I had a mate and we listened to the same track on 4 different amps. Woo WA22, 430, 230 and V281. 430 was scrubbing treble detail. Both of us heard it. We were floored that the tube amp was letting the detail through and the 430 was not.
> Seriously flawed the 430 was sold the next week.



Did the 230 let the detail through? Never having heard a Moon amp, I suspect that might have been just an iffy 430 maybe?


----------



## Badas

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> Did the 230 let the detail through? Never having heard a Moon amp, I suspect that might have been just an iffy 430 maybe?



Yes. The 230 did. That baffled us. We wondered why the flagship amp didn't let the detail through. The conclusion we came to was the engineers had designed the 430 to sound like a tube amp sacrificing detail. Not really what a SS amp should be. Our opinion is a SS amp should be transparent.


----------



## Mediahound

Anyone know how many watts the V281 uses when on (and not playing)?


----------



## astrostar59

I would say about 20 watts looking at my P10 power regenerator read outs. 
It is class A so same when on and playing music. I leave mine on 24/7. It doesn't get that warm. BTW sound amazing!


----------



## astrostar59

Badas said:


> Yes. The 230 did. That baffled us. We wondered why the flagship amp didn't let the detail through. The conclusion we came to was the engineers had designed the 430 to sound like a tube amp sacrificing detail. Not really what a SS amp should be. Our opinion is a SS amp should be transparent.



My opinion is a good tube amp can be as transparent as it needs to be for realism. If an SS amp is more transparent than that, it is going to become fatiguing for sure. With good modern design tube amps and transformers up to the task, you get FR up to 100kz but no treble coldness or artificial edges. The old story of warm, slow and rosy glow tube amp sound is not where they are nowadays (as long as they are designed right). Most failings in tube amp design is poor capacitor quality and too small transformers.


----------



## Mediahound

astrostar59 said:


> I would say about 20 watts looking at my P10 power regenerator read outs.
> It is class A so same when on and playing music. I leave mine on 24/7. It doesn't get that warm. BTW sound amazing!



Thanks. 



> I leave mine on 24/7.



Is that recommended?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Sure, why not? As long as your room temperature isn't something of maybe 40°C you should be fine. I don't see any musical benefits though, only if you want to save an hour or two warming up when you come home. Time is scarce nowadays.

However I see always-on much more critical with DACs where I recommend to leave them fully on, 24/7. Even Delta-Sigma ones. I've been seeing the Lake People RS06 become best after a whole day. From there on it's always prime time.
Schiit DACs or Multibit DACs are much more "painful".


----------



## rgs9200m

Is the V281 relay stepped volume control much better than the continuous one?
Are the steps of the relay one small enough for sensitive headphones?
Thanks.


----------



## Pharmaboy

rgs9200m said:


> Is the V281 relay stepped volume control much better than the continuous one?
> Are the steps of the relay one small enough for sensitive headphones?
> Thanks.



I have the big stepped pot that's remote controlled. It has 128 steps. I haven't compared sound of the V281 w/this relay stepped pot vs the continuous non-relay one, though several others in this thread have. The 3-4 comments I've seen, including one by a trusted INNER FIDELITY reviewer, John Grandberg, suggest the relay-stepped pot _does_ make an audible difference--not a huge/extreme difference, but an audible difference in favor of the relay-stepped pot.

The steps of the relay-stepped pot should be sufficient for any headphone--but only if the V281's gain settings are optimized to match the gain of your system. For example, if your DAC feeding signal to the V281 has the typical nominal output voltage of 1.8-2.0v, you can get away with unity gain or something a bit lower on the V281 (which has dipswitch gain setting separate for headphone amp output vs line out...extremely convenient). But if your DAC outputs 2.5v, as mine does, you might need to knock down those gain settings even more. I have both the headphone amp out and line out dipswitch arrays set to -12 dB (out of a maximum of -14dB), which works fine. Sensitive headphones are well controlled in the 8AM-10AM range on the dial; planars and less sensitive designs are 10AM-12PM on the dial.


----------



## Mediahound

Is the default volume stepped at all, or totally smooth to turn?


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks Pharmaboy. 128 is an insanely great number of steps. I had real trouble with the DACT 23 stepper.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Mediahound said:


> Is the default volume stepped at all, or totally smooth to turn?



Smooth/non-stepped.


----------



## Mediahound (Oct 18, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> Smooth/non-stepped.



Thanks. I got mine used and it is stepped but doesn't seem to have 128 steps. Mine seems to have 40 steps. Any ideas what did I get?


----------



## Pharmaboy

rgs9200m said:


> Thanks Pharmaboy. 128 is an insanely great number of steps. I had real trouble with the DACT 23 stepper.



Yes, I've experienced that, too. I had a Burson Soloist--one of the big amp/preamp models, not the cheaper one w/same name (confusing). Anyway, this amp/preamp had a stepped pot that had maybe 23 steps, total. Way too few steps, leaving just 2-3 to control effective volume IMS. It annoyed me so much that I went to considerable trouble to replace the stepped pot with an equivalent non-stepped one, which made it so much better.

My Lake People G109-A has a stepped pot with 43 or 47 steps (forget which). Great amp, but even that occasionally will feel like too few steps.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Mediahound said:


> Thanks. I got mine used and it is stepped but doesn't seem to have 128 steps. Mine seems to have 40 steps. Any ideas what did I get?



No idea. The smaller Violectric amps use stepped pots that have either 43 or 47 steps. But as far as I know, the V281 is either non-stepped pot or 128 step/relay controlled pot.


----------



## Mediahound (Oct 18, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> No idea. The smaller Violectric amps use stepped pots that have either 43 or 47 steps. But as far as I know, the V281 is either non-stepped pot or 128 step/relay controlled pot.



I guess i have this one. Looks like it's an upgrade from the standard one, but not quite the 128 stepped one. Maybe they did a soft change to the default one at some point. 

"
_The volume control was changed to a 41 detent from Alps which is only made on demand. We like the detent feeling whilst turning because it has something to do with precision and eases repositioning to a specific level. Also the 41 detent matches the layout on the frontpanel. Every two steps a mark is hit. Please note that this is NOT a stepped volume control but still analog with infinite resolution. The new knob is an original Violectric design and manufactured only for us. It is solid aluminium as before but sightly bigger (25 to 23,5 mm) and higher (20 to 16 mm) thus using more material. It is glas blasted and the anodising quality is much better as it was before”._

"

from: https://www.headfonia.com/violectric-v200-the-german-solid-state/


----------



## Pharmaboy

Mediahound said:


> I guess i have this one. Looks like it's an upgrade from the standard one, but not quite the 128 stepped one:
> 
> "
> _The volume control was changed to a 41 detent from Alps which is only made on demand. We like the detent feeling whilst turning because it has something to do with precision and eases repositioning to a specific level. Also the 41 detent matches the layout on the frontpanel. Every two steps a mark is hit. Please note that this is NOT a stepped volume control but still analog with infinite resolution. The new knob is an original Violectric design and manufactured only for us. It is solid aluminium as before but sightly bigger (25 to 23,5 mm) and higher (20 to 16 mm) thus using more material. It is glas blasted and the anodising quality is much better as it was before”._
> ...



Oh, that link leads to a V200, not a V281. A lot of people here have the V200 and love it; it's single-ended only. The V281 is 2-3X larger than the V200 and is balanced as well as SE.


----------



## Mediahound

Pharmaboy said:


> Oh, that link leads to a V200, not a V281. A lot of people here have the V200 and love it; it's single-ended only. The V281 is 2-3X larger than the V200 and is balanced as well as SE.



Right. Maybe they did a soft change on the V281at some point.


----------



## Pharmaboy

So you have the V281, not the V200? And it has that big dial, but w/only 41 steps (that aren't even steps)? That's pretty confusing. 

But if 41 steps (or whatever they really are) aren't enough, then it seems to me that you have 2 options:

Work with Violectric to get a non-stepped version of this Alps pot--which you could almost certainly swap out yourself. You would need 1.5mm and 2.5mm hex wrenches, if memory serves. The only reason you'd have to go through Violectric is to make sure that the new pot has the necessary impedance rating (pots come in a wide range of ratings).
Or if you're flush, pay Violectric to install the 128 step relay-controlled pot. Actually, that's probably user installable, as well.
I know this because my V281's relay-controlled pot developed problems, so Violectric send me an identical replacement and I swapped them out. It was a little hair-raising (I'm not exactly adept in electronics), but definitely do-able.


----------



## Mediahound

Pharmaboy said:


> So you have the V281, not the V200? And it has that big dial, but w/only 41 steps (that aren't even steps)? That's pretty confusing.
> 
> But if 41 steps (or whatever they really are) aren't enough, then it seems to me that you have 2 options:
> 
> ...



Yeah, I have a v281. I think probably at one point they had the 41 step one they were using, or it was in for repair at one point and they replaced it with that one, something like that.

At any rate, it sounds like an upgrade from the smooth one, so I'm not concerned. It's still Alps.


----------



## jerick70

I wanted to put my 2 cents in about the relay volume control.  I noticed a huge difference in fidelity after doing the upgrade.  Very much worth the price of admission.  I've changed the volume controls back and forth a few times to verify and there is definitely a large difference.  I was using Audeze LCD-3s with 2018 drivers to test from the XLR output.   

I did the swap of the volume control myself.  It was very strait forward.  The most difficult part was drilling the hole larger on the face plate.  Oh and lining up the volume knob so it registers the correct volume setting can be a chore.  Everything else is unplugging ribbon cables and unscrewing the old volume control. Then replacing the new volume control in reverse order.  Pretty simple in my eyes.


----------



## Mediahound

jerick70 said:


> The most difficult part was drilling the hole larger on the face plate.




I'd be scared doing that myself.


----------



## jerick70

Mediahound said:


> I'd be scared doing that myself.


It's not as difficult as it sounds.  If you use a stepped drill bit it's easy peasy.  

Another option is Violectric will do it for you for free.  You have to ship your V281 in though.  I'm a little possessive of my audio gear so shipping it in was a no go for me.


----------



## Mediahound

jerick70 said:


> It's not as difficult as it sounds.  If you use a stepped drill bit it's easy peasy.
> 
> Another option is Violectric will do it for you for free.  You have to ship your V281 in though.  I'm a little possessive of my audio gear so shipping it in was a no go for me.



Back to Germany? Or to their usa distributor?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Mediahound said:


> Back to Germany? Or to their usa distributor?



Pretty sure it would go to Violectric USA--a very nice/helpful fellow named Arthur (last name escapes me). I bought my Lake People G109-A from him a couple years back; and 2-3 months ago he was the one who helped me swap out the defective stepped relay pot in my V281.

I'll give you his contact info if you like.


----------



## jerick70

Mediahound said:


> Back to Germany? Or to their usa distributor?


Yes Arthur at Violectric USA is the one that would do the upgrade for you.  Excellent to work with.  He gave me the instructions on the upgrade when I did my V281.


----------



## rgs9200m

OK, I'm going to try the V281 with the relay volume. Thanks.


----------



## sahmen

Personally, when I sent my v281 in to get the remote volume control, I asked for the normal smooth volume control, because it never occurred to me that a simple volume control could make a difference in sq.  Now that I have learnt my lesson and know better, I would like to have the superior volume control, but I am feeling foolish to do a "double dipping" on the volume control, since I can neither sell the older remote/control nor trade it in to get the better one at a reduced cost...

So either way, I am feeling foolish and, worse, trying to console myself sometimes that I am not losing much SQ by using the standard non-relay remote/volume control, but who am I kidding?  This labor of self-consolation is not working!  The bottomline is I do love the V281, and I hate to think that I might be keeping it from performing to the best of its abilities by using a substandard remote volume control...  So what is there to do? This situation just sucks!


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> Personally, when I sent my v281 in to get the remote volume control, I asked for the normal smooth volume control, because it never occurred to me that a simple volume control could make a difference in sq.  Now that I have learnt my lesson and know better, I would like to have the superior volume control, but I am feeling foolish to do a "double dipping" on the volume control, since I can neither sell the older remote/control nor trade it in to get the better one at a reduced cost...
> 
> So either way, I am feeling foolish and, worse, trying to console myself sometimes that I am not losing much SQ by using the standard non-relay remote/volume control, but who am I kidding?  This labor of self-consolation is not working!  The bottomline is I do love the V281, and I hate to think that I might be keeping it from performing to the best of its abilities by using a substandard remote volume control...  So what is there to do? This situation just sucks!



So your options are to do nothing and feel a nagging doubt that your V281 could be even better than it is; or spend nearly $600 to upgrade the V281 to the best volume pot, then be stuck with the non-stepped pot you already upgraded to? Yes, that's a difficult spot.

2 thoughts:

If you ask Violectric USA, you might get a credit of some kind for the non-stepped volume pot (a kind of trade-in against the new one). No idea if that's possible, but it never hurts to ask...
And after looking at your equipment list, I'm struck by the evident quality of some of your gear, sources, amps, and headphones. That tells me that you would almost certainly hear & appreciate the upgrade the stepped pot represents for the V281.

It might just be worth the $$ to push your V281 to the next level...


----------



## rgs9200m

Will the line outs send any signal if the amp is switched off? Thanks. (I only ask because some amps do this, like my current one. Just curious.)


----------



## Pharmaboy

rgs9200m said:


> Will the line outs send any signal if the amp is switched off? Thanks. (I only ask because some amps do this, like my current one. Just curious.)



My V281's line outs definitely don't pass signal if the amp is switched off:

Listening right now to headphones & speakers/sub at the same time
Just shut off the amp, and all sound vanished (didn't touch the on/off buttons of anything else, just the V281)


----------



## Mediahound

rgs9200m said:


> Will the line outs send any signal if the amp is switched off? Thanks. (I only ask because some amps do this, like my current one. Just curious.)





Pharmaboy said:


> My V281's line outs definitely don't pass signal if the amp is switched off:
> 
> Listening right now to headphones & speakers/sub at the same time
> Just shut off the amp, and all sound vanished (didn't touch the on/off buttons of anything else, just the V281)



Right. It does not have line out pass thru.


----------



## rgs9200m

Thx again for the quick answer!


----------



## sahmen

Pharmaboy said:


> 2 thoughts:
> 
> If you ask Violectric USA, you might get a credit of some kind for the non-stepped volume pot (a kind of trade-in against the new one). No idea if that's possible, but it never hurts to ask...
> And after looking at your equipment list, I'm struck by the evident quality of some of your gear, sources, amps, and headphones. That tells me that you would almost certainly hear & appreciate the upgrade the stepped pot represents for the V281.
> ...



Yes I would ideally like to optimize the performance of the unit, as I consider that to be worth it for peace of mind.  However, I have already inquired about the possibility of the type of trade-in you have mentioned.  It is the very first thing I did after learning about the sq difference the relay volume/remote can make.  Unfortunately, Arthur explained to me, in his usual nice and calm style, that such a trade-up arrangement was not possible. Otherwise I would have done the upgrade a long time ago.

I might still wind up doing it at some point in the near future.  I just have to convince myself to pay the nearly $600 upgrade fee, and accept the loss of the original non-stepped upgrade payment.  I do not know why that is proving to be so difficult.


----------



## Fegefeuer

jerick70 said:


> Yes Arthur at Violectric USA is the one that would do the upgrade for you.  Excellent to work with.  He gave me the instructions on the upgrade when I did my V281.



@Mediahound: @ArthurPower  is the man.


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, Arthur is great to work with and generous with his time. I've never dealt with Violectric before but they seem like a great company and easy to deal with.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Arthur has been great to work with. He really helped me last time I dealt with him. Also was able to meet & talk w/him a bit at CanJam NYC. I've been obsessing a little over one of the Violectric products, and there it was...


----------



## andromeda1954

sahmen said:


> Yes I would ideally like to optimize the performance of the unit, as I consider that to be worth it for peace of mind.  However, I have already inquired about the possibility of the type of trade-in you have mentioned.  It is the very first thing I did after learning about the sq difference the relay volume/remote can make.  Unfortunately, Arthur explained to me, in his usual nice and calm style, that such a trade-up arrangement was not possible. Otherwise I would have done the upgrade a long time ago.
> 
> I might still wind up doing it at some point in the near future.  I just have to convince myself to pay the nearly $600 upgrade fee, and accept the loss of the original non-stepped upgrade payment.  I do not know why that is proving to be so difficult.


The difference in sound quality between the stepped and the non stepped volume control is minimal and barely noticeable and in a blind test you will probably hear no difference .I had  both the non stepped and stepped v281 for 10 days and decided to keep the non stepped .I followed the advice of my dealer to put the extra money into better cableling the v281 (better power cord and interlinks ) which will  have a far better audible result unless you are in the need of a remote control of course.


----------



## sahmen

andromeda1954 said:


> The difference in sound quality between the stepped and the non stepped volume control is minimal and barely noticeable and in a blind test you will probably hear no difference .I had  both the non stepped and stepped v281 for 10 days and decided to keep the non stepped .I followed the advice of my dealer to put the extra money into better cableling the v281 (better power cord and interlinks ) which will  have a far better audible result unless you are in the need of a remote control of course.



This is certainly nice and comforting to hear, not to mention very calming for my wallet, and the "upgraditis nervosa" that occasionally haunts and perturbs my enjoyment of the fine V281.  Strangely, when I inquired about the upgrade, Arthur at Violectric gave a description of the sq difference between stepped and non-stepped volume control that resembles the one you have just provided, and that made me less anxious about swapping my non-stepped  for the stepped volume control... However, occasionally, I read someone else's interpretation of that same sq difference here on head-fi, and then it gets my "upgraditis nervosa" all inflamed again.

Having experienced this head-fi forum for more than 4 years now, I should be able recognize such variable assessments as normal, and not allow it to trouble me, but I guess it is my own unsatisfied curiosity regarding how the stepped volume control actually sounds, that gets the better of me sometimes...

FWIW, my non-stepped remote/volume control is still firing on all cylinders, although it does not get to see much action since I do not typically need to mess with the volume or balance controls on the V281 all that often.


----------



## Youry

New owner here and love it so far.
Question: how does the balance knob work? I mean, I know it would compensate between the left and the right side in case the sound is not balanced but mine doesn't do a thing. I'm running balanced and single ended cable headphones. Is there something I am missing? Does it work under certain circumstances?


----------



## project86

sahmen said:


> This is certainly nice and comforting to hear, not to mention very calming for my wallet, and the "upgraditis nervosa" that occasionally haunts and perturbs my enjoyment of the fine V281.  Strangely, when I inquired about the upgrade, Arthur at Violectric gave a description of the sq difference between stepped and non-stepped volume control that resembles the one you have just provided, and that made me less anxious about swapping my non-stepped  for the stepped volume control... However, occasionally, I read someone else's interpretation of that same sq difference here on head-fi, and then it gets my "upgraditis nervosa" all inflamed again.
> 
> Having experienced this head-fi forum for more than 4 years now, I should be able recognize such variable assessments as normal, and not allow it to trouble me, but I guess it is my own unsatisfied curiosity regarding how the stepped volume control actually sounds, that gets the better of me sometimes...
> 
> FWIW, my non-stepped remote/volume control is still firing on all cylinders, although it does not get to see much action since I do not typically need to mess with the volume or balance controls on the V281 all that often.



Don't worry too much about it. I had one of each version here together for quite some time, and the difference is not massive by any means. 

When I'm in full "reviewer mode" and listening to a Reference Recordings SACD release via my ModWright Instruments Oppo 205, using the V281 to drive a modded HD800, with fancy cables and power conditioning throughout the chain.... then yes, the volume upgrade is worth it to me. When I'm just listening for fun, with less than perfect music or DAC or headphones etc, it's probably not worth the extra money. 

Really a matter of perspective as to whether or not the money would be better spent elsewhere but I can tell you this - the V281 with standard volume still sounds excellent. So no need to worry about it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Youry said:


> New owner here and love it so far.
> Question: how does the balance knob work? I mean, I know it would compensate between the left and the right side in case the sound is not balanced but mine doesn't do a thing. I'm running balanced and single ended cable headphones. Is there something I am missing? Does it work under certain circumstances?



I just checked the usually dependable V281 manual. No real answer there.

FYI, the V281's balance adjustment is unusual--it raises or lowers the level of only the right channel. Weird, but it totally works. On the other hand, you say you get no effect from it, and that's something I can't explain. The +/- adjustment is not huge, but it still should be audible...


----------



## Mediahound (Oct 22, 2018)

musicmaker said:


> I owned the Hugo2 and V281 at one point. The gain stage in the Hugo 2 is not a separate discrete module that can be bypassed but is integral by intent. So in essence you are double amplifying the signal when you pair it with an external amp. The H2 sounds cleanest when used without additional amplification. Having said that, if you like what you hear from the H2 and the V281, that's all matters and enjoy the music




Not quite a true statement. The H2 has a line-out mode that can be set. Setting it to this mode, it then outputs the same line level as any DAC does. Chord achieves this via their super well-engineered digital volume control.

While technically true that listening directly out of the H2 will by nature always be closer to the source (the DAC) and therefore cleaner, if you have an external amp like the V281 that you like, there is no harm in using it. In fact, the v281 can provide a much better damping factor and therefore can sound more engaging with many if not most headphones (especially hard to drive ones and running them balanced)  than the H2 direct output, which maxes out at around just 1w max.


----------



## Mediahound

Pharmaboy said:


> I just checked the usually dependable V281 manual. No real answer there.
> 
> FYI, the V281's balance adjustment is unusual--it raises or lowers the level of only the right channel. Weird, but it totally works. On the other hand, you say you get no effect from it, and that's something I can't explain. The +/- adjustment is not huge, but it still should be audible...



Indeed. I feel I don't need this knob, and I never use it. I guess it could come in handy in a pro studio environment however.


----------



## hifimckinney

Is it a wise idea to replace my current (expensive) passive preamp with V281? Alternatively, those who are using V281 as preamplifier, could you please share your thoughts?


----------



## Pharmaboy

hifimckinney said:


> Is it a wise idea to replace my current (expensive) passive preamp with V281? Alternatively, those who are using V281 as preamplifier, could you please share your thoughts?



Your question is simple enough, but possible answers are anything but simple. The reason is that sound produced by a passive preamp is rather different from that produced by an active device--because the passive device will "sound" like the impedance & wire capacitance ahead of it, and even more, on the output of it; whereas the active device will "sound" more like the sum of its electronic components & power supply. 

I had a long love affair w/passives, but it came crashing to a halt when I realized (after spending ~$600 on the wrong device)--that the good sound I heard from my first passive, an NHT PVC, derived from its use of a transformer...and to get anything more complicated, w/more inputs/outputs, required spending really serious $$. I bagged it and returned to active devices and have been very happy ever since.

One significant advantage of going active is that a single device (amp/preamp) like the V281 combines are high-quality active preamp with a high-quality & powerful amp. No passive preamp can do that. And the V281 has the most flexible, full-featured I/O set up & gain matching capability of any preamp/amp I've ever seen (it's far and away the best of the 3 amp/preamps I have in that regard).

There are other factors in this conversation, having to do with greater dynamics & damping factor in active devices, that IMO skew the answer towards actives.


----------



## KcMsterpce

I love my V281 as a standalone amp. It's got the juice to power all my headphones, AND it sounds spectacularly clean and resolving.
Then again, it's fun to plug into the Bottlehead amps using the V281 as a go-between from the DAC to the amp... I don't know if most of my friends would notice a difference, but I like how the notes feel a little bit more 'rounded', and the tubes do add a _slight hint_ of wetness and tangibility to the aural proceedings.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I agree with these impressions. The preamp is so clean, detalied and resolving it makes my fingers itch to get better studio monitors again. Something like the APS Klasik, hypothetical (but surely incoming) Neumann KH120 DSP or Focal Shape Twin.
However there is Niimbus on the Horizon. Maybe. Maybe not. Must resist.


----------



## MC242 (Oct 25, 2018)

Hallo to all V281ers! I'm new here and I just got myself a used V281. This thread is awesome and it's stuff to read for months to come... 
But I also have a question to the experts. Actually I don't know if the unit I got has a remote control option inside or not. There was no remote that came with it.
But the volume knob seems to be stepped and there's a remote receiver under the volume knob. So maybe I'm lucky. 

I have a little picture here from the inside of my unit and maybe someone here knows by looking at it if its remote controllable or not.
Any help would be highly appreciated. 

https://ibb.co/k2cCAq


----------



## Mediahound

MC242 said:


> Hallo to all V281ers! I'm new here and I just got myself a used V281. This thread is awesome and it's stuff to read for months to come...
> But I also have a question to the experts. Actually I don't know if the unit I got has a remote control option inside or not. There was no remote that came with it.
> But the volume knob seems to be stepped and there's a remote receiver under the volume knob. So maybe I'm lucky.
> 
> ...




How many steps does your volume have?


----------



## Badas

hifimckinney said:


> Is it a wise idea to replace my current (expensive) passive preamp with V281? Alternatively, those who are using V281 as preamplifier, could you please share your thoughts?



I use mine as a stand alone for listening sessions under 2 hours.
If I listen longer I use mine as a pre-amp to my Woo WA22 tube amp.
As a pre-amp it is fantastically clean and I have the remote volume option so it is great for control.
Highly recommended.


----------



## MC242

Mediahound said:


> How many steps does your volume have?


Actually it’s hard to count them because they are so fine at the beginning and get more apart from each other at the end of the volume. But I would say around 110-130.


----------



## Pharmaboy

MC242 said:


> Actually it’s hard to count them because they are so fine at the beginning and get more apart from each other at the end of the volume. But I would say around 110-130.



Interesting. My internals didn't look much like yours, but I could be mistaken; there also could be changes year-to-year.

But if you really have 128 steps (which I'm pretty sure is only available w/remote control) + you see a remote receiver, then it sounds like you're just missing the remote. 

My advice is to contact Violectric in Germany; give them your SN and ask to check that it's remote-operated (almost certainly it would be). Then just order a remote control from them.


----------



## zhgutov (Oct 25, 2018)

MC242 said:


> Hallo to all V281ers! I'm new here and I just got myself a used V281. This thread is awesome and it's stuff to read for months to come...
> But I also have a question to the experts. Actually I don't know if the unit I got has a remote control option inside or not. There was no remote that came with it.
> But the volume knob seems to be stepped and there's a remote receiver under the volume knob. So maybe I'm lucky.
> 
> ...



This should be remote controllable.
As I know, you can use widely available remote controllers (for TV, etc.).
Not sure about the models, but I think you can ask Violectric directly.


----------



## MC242

Okay, thank you for your help!  I already wrote to Violectric parallel to my post and today I received a message from Fried Reim himself. He confirmed that it's the relay remote controlled version.
So I have ordered a One For All URC7140. Hope it comes tomorrow or on Saturday.  Let's see if I'm so lucky because it was sold to me as the standard version for a steal then.


----------



## jerick70

MC242 said:


> Hallo to all V281ers! I'm new here and I just got myself a used V281. This thread is awesome and it's stuff to read for months to come...
> But I also have a question to the experts. Actually I don't know if the unit I got has a remote control option inside or not. There was no remote that came with it.
> But the volume knob seems to be stepped and there's a remote receiver under the volume knob. So maybe I'm lucky.
> 
> ...


That circuit board is the relay attenuator.  The black boxes are the relays.  My V281 looks exactly like that.


----------



## MC242

jerick70 said:


> That circuit board is the relay attenuator.  The black boxes are the relays.  My V281 looks exactly like that.



Fantastic! Yes, I guess I am a lucky one right now.


----------



## jerick70

MC242 said:


> Fantastic! Yes, I guess I am a lucky one right now.


Yes very lucky.  New that would cost $2880.  I'm guessing that you purchased for quite a bit less?


----------



## MC242

jerick70 said:


> Yes very lucky.  New that would cost $2880.  I'm guessing that you purchased for quite a bit less?



Yes, indeed. I purchased it for half of that.


----------



## KcMsterpce

Congratulations on an amazing deal for a spectacular amp!


----------



## MC242

KcMsterpce said:


> Congratulations on an amazing deal for a spectacular amp!


Oooh yeeah!  It is indeed! Thank you!!


----------



## MC242

By the way, I got the remote working again. This is for everyone who has problems with the remote: 
Just press the XLR button when powering on your V281 and you should be all set.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The HE-500 is my old Love. Many years ago it was the first headphone that really led to an absolute stunning wow moment. Visceral, slamming, that "dreamy" mid range and outstanding timbre. 
What followed was a mess of headphone choices for the sake of curiousity. Only the HD800 stood strong and remains wit me until today. Still the best reference can to own imo.

Now years later with much better gear the HE-500 is like back in the days, only even more amazing, articulate, especially in the bass part, soundstage and detail retrieval.


----------



## diabelli

Fegefeuer said:


> I agree with these impressions. The preamp is so clean, detalied and resolving it makes my fingers itch to get better studio monitors again. Something like the APS Klasik, hypothetical (but surely incoming) Neumann KH120 DSP or Focal Shape Twin.
> However there is Niimbus on the Horizon. Maybe. Maybe not. Must resist.



Hi to all,
I know that's probably a little bit OT since it's an headphone forum, but what do you think about using it mainly as a pre-amp with active loudspeakers (ATC SCM40A, Me Geithain RL 906 ...)?
We say 75% of the time as a pre-amp and 25% of the time as a headphone amp?
Is it an overkill?
I'm thinking about the version with relay stepped volume control if I can have a good trade-in.
Thanks!


----------



## Pharmaboy

diabelli said:


> Hi to all,
> I know that's probably a little bit OT since it's an headphone forum, but what do you think about using it mainly as a pre-amp with active loudspeakers (ATC SCM40A, Me Geithain RL 906 ...)?
> We say 75% of the time as a pre-amp and 25% of the time as a headphone amp?
> Is it an overkill?
> ...



I have used the V281 always as both pre-amp & headphone amp. It does a superb job in both applications. I mean _really_ superb. I hear deeper, more authoritative bass as well as the best dynamics, top-to-bottom, when I have the V281 in the system as preamp (slight but noticeable differences vs the 2 other amp/preamp units I sometimes use). 

However, using the V281 as a preamp only, you should know the benefits of gain-matching it to the downstream components. Your objectives:

To have the gain coming out of the V281 adjusted so that the powered monitor's gain (+/- volume knobs, if any, on each powered monitor) aren't "pinned" at highest point (ie, amp in each monitor working hardest)--or, if you use a separate amp + passive speakers, to not have that amp working too little or too hard to get the volumes you typically use
And to have the gain on V281 adjusted so that that big stepped volume pot is not typically set too low (7:30-8AM on dial) or too high (3-4PM on dial) so the V281's preamp circuits aren't loafing along at minimal output, or are straining to keep up. 
Luckily, the V281 has the most extensive & flexible gain adjustments I've ever seen: separate dipswitch panels for the headphone amp output vs the preamp output. I have both dipswitch panels adjusted to -12dB (which happens to work best in my system). But everybody's system is totally different, so adjust as you see fit.


----------



## Pharmaboy

diabelli said:


> Hi to all,
> I know that's probably a little bit OT since it's an headphone forum, but what do you think about using it mainly as a pre-amp with active loudspeakers (ATC SCM40A, Me Geithain RL 906 ...)?
> We say 75% of the time as a pre-amp and 25% of the time as a headphone amp?
> Is it an overkill?
> ...



(2nd reply) I just noticed the powered monitors you mention. Those are both superb transducers. Obviously you're in the high-end of 2 channel audio there, particularly w/the ATC (I have passive ATC SCM12 Pro speakers + a 250wpc class D Wyred4Sound ST-500 amp...I know how good ATCs are).

If you compare the V281 to high-end preamps, you may/may not hear certain limitations in subtle qualities such as micro-dynamics, transparency, ultimate soundstaging. I wouldn't know because I no longer have my big audiophile living room system set up--so I can't test the V281 against trad high end preamps. Still, I suspect you'll like the V281 as a preamp. Whether it meets xtreme high end sonic standards, it has 3 very distinct advantages:

Remote control of a stepped pot
Gain adjustments that are critical to the interface w/either of your powered monitors in a real-world system
And the ability to use the V281 as an exemplary headphone amp, should you ever go in that direction (it's one of the best SS HP amps around)
I suspect the ATCs in particular would fully convey the slam & dynamics of the V281, as well as its reach into deep bass...


----------



## bluenight

sahmen said:


> Personally, when I sent my v281 in to get the remote volume control, I asked for the normal smooth volume control, because it never occurred to me that a simple volume control could make a difference in sq.  Now that I have learnt my lesson and know better, I would like to have the superior volume control, but I am feeling foolish to do a "double dipping" on the volume control, since I can neither sell the older remote/control nor trade it in to get the better one at a reduced cost...
> 
> So either way, I am feeling foolish and, worse, trying to console myself sometimes that I am not losing much SQ by using the standard non-relay remote/volume control, but who am I kidding?  This labor of self-consolation is not working!  The bottomline is I do love the V281, and I hate to think that I might be keeping it from performing to the best of its abilities by using a substandard remote volume control...  So what is there to do? This situation just sucks!


I you dont have a great cable. You can put money on that instead. 

Like for exe 
*Tellurium Q Ultra Black rca or xlr.*
*Been reading alot of good user comments about it. So i reccomend that. *


----------



## Luke Thomas

Do most use a laptop as the source for their digital music with the 281?


----------



## LCMusicLover

Luke Thomas said:


> Do most use a laptop as the source for their digital music with the 281?


Do you mean USB out to a DAC, and then to V281?  Probably some do, but most do not.

If you mean the headphone out straight to the v281, probably none do.  You'd be using the V281 to amp a very poor signal.


----------



## bluenight

Mediahound said:


> Not quite a true statement. The H2 has a line-out mode that can be set. Setting it to this mode, it then outputs the same line level as any DAC does. Chord achieves this via their super well-engineered digital volume control.
> 
> While technically true that listening directly out of the H2 will by nature always be closer to the source (the DAC) and therefore cleaner, if you have an external amp like the V281 that you like, there is no harm in using it. In fact, the v281 can provide a much better damping factor and therefore can sound more engaging with many if not most headphones (especially hard to drive ones and running them balanced)  than the H2 direct output, which maxes out at around just 1w max.


I did some a-b listening with hugo 2 set to line out mode compared to non line out mode connected to lake people rs 02 HPA. And line out mode sounds a bit more crisper amd more detailed i especially heard it in the highs.


----------



## Luke Thomas

LCMusicLover said:


> Do you mean USB out to a DAC, and then to V281?  Probably some do, but most do not.
> 
> If you mean the headphone out straight to the v281, probably none do.  You'd be using the V281 to amp a very poor signal.


What u said first
USB out to dac to 281.
What do most use for the source?


----------



## MC242

My source is a RME ADI Pro FS connected to a Mac Pro. There is hardly anything better. I could only maybe spend a bit more on the XLR cables. But that’s a completely different discussion.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Luke Thomas said:


> What u said first
> USB out to dac to 281.
> What do most use for the source?


There's nothing inherently wrong with using a laptop.  Depending on the DAC, the USB connection might be jittery or have other problems.  But that really has nothing to do with the Amp your're using, unless you're using the V280/281 with a built-in DAC.

This probably isn't the right thread for this discussion.  You might try here:

https://www.head-fi.org/forums/computer-audio.46/

or here:

computeraudiophile dot com


----------



## MC242

As for cables I'm thinking about these here:
https://www.hifi-zubehoer.shop/card...MIqcHKvqWv3gIVhbTtCh0PGwGkEAQYASABEgKkyPD_BwE
Does anyone have experience with them?


----------



## Luke Thomas

LCMusicLover said:


> There's nothing inherently wrong with using a laptop.  Depending on the DAC, the USB connection might be jittery or have other problems.  But that really has nothing to do with the Amp your're using, unless you're using the V280/281 with a built-in DAC.
> 
> This probably isn't the right thread for this discussion.  You might try here:
> 
> ...


Thx, as a owner of the Violectric.  Trying to get some input,from other, their choice of digital source.


----------



## diabelli

Pharmaboy said:


> (2nd reply) I just noticed the powered monitors you mention. Those are both superb transducers. Obviously you're in the high-end of 2 channel audio there, particularly w/the ATC (I have passive ATC SCM12 Pro speakers + a 250wpc class D Wyred4Sound ST-500 amp...I know how good ATCs are).
> 
> If you compare the V281 to high-end preamps, you may/may not hear certain limitations in subtle qualities such as micro-dynamics, transparency, ultimate soundstaging. I wouldn't know because I no longer have my big audiophile living room system set up--so I can't test the V281 against trad high end preamps. Still, I suspect you'll like the V281 as a preamp. Whether it meets xtreme high end sonic standards, it has 3 very distinct advantages:
> 
> ...




Thanks for the feedback!
The advantages you listed so clearly are exactly what I was thinking of bringing at home the V281.
Let's hope to have a good trade-in...


----------



## bluenight

MC242 said:


> As for cables I'm thinking about these here:
> https://www.hifi-zubehoer.shop/card...MIqcHKvqWv3gIVhbTtCh0PGwGkEAQYASABEgKkyPD_BwE
> Does anyone have experience with them?


Search the net for reviews and buyers comments. 
Found this 
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/art...ection-interconnect-and-speaker-cable/?page=2


----------



## MC242

Thank you bluenight! Actually if anyone opened that link I posted, it's an XLR cable for over $3000. It was more like a provocation and I wanted to hear what you say to this. But anyway. Maybe I get some Violectric cables.


----------



## Pharmaboy

MC242 said:


> Thank you bluenight! Actually if anyone opened that link I posted, it's an XLR cable for over $3000. It was more like a provocation and I wanted to hear what you say to this. But anyway. Maybe I get some Violectric cables.



I did open that link. Upon seeing the price, I briefly lost consciousness and had to be revived with smelling salts. 

Seriously, I've been in audio a long time, purchased many interconnect cables in that time. I tend to hear differences between cables, though the difference is rarely large (unless the cable run is long, in which case capacitance can really pile up & mess w/sound).

I only own 1 XLR cable. Did quite a bit of reading and found, even w/in the lower levels of the audio press (people who tend to support pricey ICs) that many said XLR cables play by different rules & don't really contribute to sound. That was interesting, but incomplete. Then I looked into the pro audio community and found many there who comment only briefly/parenthetically about sound (they're way more focused on function & cost). Still, there was some preference for certain configurations of mogami cables and the like.

What I haven't really seen is much audio press on high end XLR cables. RCA or BNC cables, yes--lots of comments.

I wouldn't spend $3K on any cable, so in my mind this discussion is less about pure cost than benefit: ie, what would I gain by jumping up from the usual $20-$30 for a pair of XLR cables, to 3-5X that cost?


----------



## 13713

No one needs 3k cables when we can purchase:
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Good to see the thread going and welcome to the new owners as I have not been on in a while to say welcome earlier.


----------



## AxelCloris

We've removed some of the recent posts in the thread since we don't allow discussion of clone or knock-off products on the forums. Thank you everyone, we appreciate the assistance.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Niimbus amps are in stock, in Germany at least. USA should be in stock a few hours later. Who's making the jump? @astrostar59 ?


----------



## astrostar59

Pharmaboy said:


> I did open that link. Upon seeing the price, I briefly lost consciousness and had to be revived with smelling salts.
> 
> Seriously, I've been in audio a long time, purchased many interconnect cables in that time. I tend to hear differences between cables, though the difference is rarely large (unless the cable run is long, in which case capacitance can really pile up & mess w/sound).
> 
> ...



I agree. But with care you can gain sound quality trying out different cables. I went up to about 600K per cable, I wouldn't want to go further. And at that level I did get a better sound. My interconnects as silver RCA cables made by Audio Note. I run short lengths, 1.5m max, so that probably helps.

I Also found different headphone cables make a big difference. It is great for system tuning, so if you want more detail, or more warmth, cables can do that for you. I went from a standard SE LCD4 cable to a balanced all silver Norne Druag and the improvement was dramatic. This was also partly affected by the Viollectric 281 using all it's amps at that point, as opposed to half. But I would guess even if the amp used was not true balanced, there would still be an improvement.

Back to your point, I would never spend beyond 15% of the system cost on cables.


----------



## astrostar59

I would add to the post above. IMO I think you need an amp and HP roughly the same budget. Otherwise the HP will never realise it's true potential. It is not just about power, also about timbre and sound quality that you get with a better amplifier.

Also there are way to many iPhone and portable DAC users on this forum IMO using a them with a top HP. Today's top HPs can embarrass many 50K speakers, and nobody would suggest having a budget or compressed data source for those. My own view is you need to be on something like the Chord DAVE and upwards to realise the best performance from the LCD4, Abyss, Susvara, 009 etc. You can get an ok sound with lesser DACs, but after hearing a top DAC as a source I would never want to go back.


----------



## jlbrach

chird dave and UPWARDS?...i would say with a chord dave any HP will sound fantastic


----------



## 13713

Fegefeuer said:


> Niimbus amps are in stock, in Germany at least. USA should be in stock a few hours later. Who's making the jump? @astrostar59 ?



I see them taunting me on the US site but honestly the stack I have now for just the HD800 is perfect for me. I would love to see how many of the v281 users make the upgrade.


----------



## rlXX

13713 said:


> I see them taunting me on the US site but honestly the stack I have now for just the HD800 is perfect for me. I would love to see how many of the v281 users make the upgrade.



Are you using the SDR mod with the HD 800? Curious, because the person I bought my HD 800 from told me, it is not needed with the V281. Interested in your opinion.


----------



## 13713

rlXX said:


> Are you using the SDR mod with the HD 800? Curious, because the person I bought my HD 800 from told me, it is not needed with the V281. Interested in your opinion.



No they are bone stock minus the cable. I have heard the mod and its neat but I honestly love the unmodified sound of the HD-800. I might be in the minority with that opinion here at Head-Fi.


----------



## marhol

Hi folks, does anyone have experience with Lumin A1 network player + V281 combo ? Or possibly other Lumin models e.g. D1, D2 or S1 ? I know head fi member @Yoga used to have v281 + Lumin A1, but he hasnt been here (on head fi) from Jule 2018... 
Thanks


----------



## Yoga

marhol said:


> Hi folks, does anyone have experience with Lumin A1 network player + V281 combo ? Or possibly other Lumin models e.g. D1, D2 or S1 ? I know head fi member @Yoga used to have v281 + Lumin A1, but he hasnt been here (on head fi) from Jule 2018...
> Thanks



Busy times!

Yes, I still use the V281. I'll be selling the Lumin since I've not used it for a while now (have a 2CH studio). It's a *great* pairing though, very complimentary.


----------



## 13713

marhol said:


> Hi folks, does anyone have experience with Lumin A1 network player + V281 combo ? Or possibly other Lumin models e.g. D1, D2 or S1 ? I know head fi member @Yoga used to have v281 + Lumin A1, but he hasnt been here (on head fi) from Jule 2018...
> Thanks



If you go this direction I would love to hear your impressions.


----------



## marhol (Nov 20, 2018)

Yoga said:


> Busy times!
> 
> Yes, I still use the V281. I'll be selling the Lumin since I've not used it for a while now (have a 2CH studio). It's a *great* pairing though, very complimentary.



Thanks a lot for a very quick reply Yoga ! I bought Lumin A1 in late 2017 and it has been my favourite audio device. Indeed very analogue sounding with added weight in low end, very smooth but still detailed and dynamic, especially in upsampling mode. I was wondering if Lumin + V281 would go well together...  I´ve heard V281 only with Moon 260 D (cd player and DAC) and LCD 2 and LCD-X. It sounded very dynamic, detailed, 3D, airy, with excellent bass but a little bit harsh in treble with LCD-X in balanced mode. With LCD-2 the sound was great, plenty of bass slam, very nice midrange and smooth non-fatiguing treble. Soundstage was great, particularly expanded in balanced settings with fantastic airiness between vocals and instruments. Nevertheless V281 impressed me most from all headphone amps I´ve auditoned so far ( Oppo HA-1, Audio GD HE-9, Hifiman EF-6, Beyerdynamic A20, Marantz HD-DAC1,  although all were on completely different rigs so take it with a grain of salt )
So I´m glad that you consider Lumin + V281 combo great and complimentary. Nice to see you around btw.,  Ross !



13713 said:


> If you go this direction I would love to hear your impressions.


Well, I´m thinking about  V281 as an amp for my HE1000 V2. I´ve seen a lot of people praised HEK +V281 combo so it looks tempting right now... Other options are Gilmore Lite mk2 or GSX mini. Or to save some more money and buy (second hand) Chord TT2 or even Dave but I´m not convinced its the right way as I am satisfied/ confident with Lumin as my main source and I havent been a fan of PC+DAC combos. If I eventually buy V281 I will let you know my impressions, thats for sure !


----------



## Yoga

marhol said:


> Thanks a lot for a very quick reply Yoga ! I bought Lumin A1 in late 2017 and it has been my favourite audio device. Indeed very analogue sounding with added weight in low end, very smooth but still detailed and dynamic, especially in upsampling mode. I was wondering if Lumin + V281 would go well together...  I´ve heard V281 only with Moon 260 D (cd player and DAC) and LCD 2 and LCD-X. It sounded very dynamic, detailed, 3D, airy, with excellent bass but a little bit harsh in treble with LCD-X in balanced mode. With LCD-2 the sound was great, plenty of bass slam, very nice midrange and smooth non-fatiguing treble. Soundstage was great, particularly expanded in balanced settings with fantastic airiness between vocals and instruments. Nevertheless V281 impressed me most from all headphone amps I´ve auditoned so far ( Oppo HA-1, Audio GD HE-9, Hifiman EF-6, Beyerdynamic A20, Marantz HD-DAC1,  although all were on completely different rigs so take it with a grain of salt )
> So I´m glad that you consider Lumin + V281 combo great and complimentary. Nice to see you around btw.,  Ross !



I believe the V281 to be (well, since I was last here anyway!) a very underrated HP amp around here. I think it's due to it being an EU model (the US brands tend to get a lot more hype as they're more readily available). I agree with your findings, and that's exactly why it's a perfect fit for the organic/analogue Lumin A1. I had the DAC version of the Moon HP amp (430 HAD) and there is no comparison; the A1 smokes the DA. Even with the new releases from Lumin, I feel the A1 still hits the sweet spot of clarity and musicality. You need to audition the V281 with it :¬)

As you're in the EU, perhaps check out Thomann. That's where I bought my V281 (no questions asked 30 day return policy). You won't send it back though


----------



## marhol

Yoga said:


> I believe the V281 to be (well, since I was last here anyway!) a very underrated HP amp around here. I think it's due to it being an EU model (the US brands tend to get a lot more hype as they're more readily available). I agree with your findings, and that's exactly why it's a perfect fit for the organic/analogue Lumin A1. I had the DAC version of the Moon HP amp (430 HAD) and there is no comparison; the A1 smokes the DA. Even with the new releases from Lumin, I feel the A1 still hits the sweet spot of clarity and musicality. You need to audition the V281 with it :¬)
> 
> As you're in the EU, perhaps check out Thomann. That's where I bought my V281 (no questions asked 30 day return policy). You won't send it back though




Thanks for the tip.


----------



## astrostar59

Yes, and the V281 is fabulously flexible. I don't know of any there amp in this price range with variable gain on the input and output, line out, line out with gain, line out with volume pot in circuit. And it can do +18dB gain or minus 12dB it believe.

I run mine as unity gain, so no decrease on the input, and no increase on the amp stage, and my pot is set at 7 o'clock for loud listening on the LCD4. My DAC has a high 6-10v output though. AND it has a very useful balance control for ear adjustment, that is a BIG thing on headphones IMO.

This combo smoked my Stax 009 and Carbon amp, no question. It was like a tinny transistor v a speaker tower LOL. The bass and mids, oh my.... the treble, well sounds realistic to my ears, not a plankton overload in the stats.
Though I am probably one of the few who has moved in that direction.


----------



## lithiumnk

V281 is a very versatile amp. Very beautifully explained by @astrostar59

I upgraded my DAC from Hugo2 to Metrum Acoustics Pavane Level 3 fee weeks back.

All I can say is that v281 pairs very well with pavane.

I am using lcd i4 on -12db pregain and tbh this the closest sound to analogue I have ever heard.( really close).

V281 is for life imho.

Cheers


----------



## Pharmaboy

I love my V281. It pairs with everything. I can't say I've ever heard a headphone sound less than excellent with it. 

The I/O & gain flexibility of this device is astonishing. I've never run across another audio device that does so much so well.

As if all that weren't enough, the V281 makes a superb system preamp. I use it that way, also for HP listening (of course). The soundstaging, bass, and overall dynamics are absolutely first rate.


----------



## fdg

We are proud to annouce that our amps Niimbus US 4 and Niimbus US 4+ are finally ready.

For more deteilas see 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nii...us4-us4-headphone-amps-by-lake-people.876018/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rev...r-includes-large-high-end-amp-roundup.886668/

The first series had been shipped to our general distributor  www.cma.audio
The delays had been caused by the guys machining the front panels who shocked us with 14 weeks delivery time ...
The first exhibition where the new amps had been on display was the "DEUTSCHE HIFI TAGE 2018" November 3rd + 4th in Darmstadt, Germany.
The second exhibition is the upcoming "Audiovista 2018" in Krefeld, Germany, November 24th + 25th.   

Thank you, Fried Reim


----------



## astrostar59

Pharmaboy said:


> I love my V281. It pairs with everything. I can't say I've ever heard a headphone sound less than excellent with it.
> 
> The I/O & gain flexibility of this device is astonishing. I've never run across another audio device that does so much so well.
> 
> As if all that weren't enough, the V281 makes a superb system preamp. I use it that way, also for HP listening (of course). The soundstaging, bass, and overall dynamics are absolutely first rate.



Have you third it as a pre-amp pass through? I have an integrated amplifier coming and need to feed my DAC line out to the V281 for my LCD4s and then press Line to send it to my new amp. It says in the manual you can set it to no pot in the circuit, but I haven't tried it yet. I guess when in that mode the headphone output would still has the pot which I would need.


----------



## astrostar59

fdg said:


> We are proud to annouce that our amps Niimbus US 4 and Niimbus US 4+ are finally ready.
> 
> For more deteilas see
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nii...us4-us4-headphone-amps-by-lake-people.876018/
> ...



You fancy sending me one as a demo / review item? I will pay for the shipping back. I will give it an in-depth review if it beats my V281 which I bought new 3 months ago.


----------



## Pharmaboy

astrostar59 said:


> Have you third it as a pre-amp pass through? I have an integrated amplifier coming and need to feed my DAC line out to the V281 for my LCD4s and then press Line to send it to my new amp. It says in the manual you can set it to no pot in the circuit, but I haven't tried it yet. I guess when in that mode the headphone output would still has the pot which I would need.



I just read the manual and find that it says nothing about whether the LINE out (when set to "Pre-Post Fader," which = unaffected by volume pot) has any effect on the headphone output. I doubt it would (all settings described seem to occur w/in the separate line out circuitry, not connected to HP out). But if you get it wrong, you blow up headphones + ears. So probably worth an email to Violectric for clarification.

I've used the V281 extensively as a pre-amp w/volume pot controlling both outputs--but never as preamp w/o volume control.


*PRE-POST FADER or FIXED-VARIABLE*
The line-out signal can be tapped at two different points within the V281’s signal path.

If you wish to make use of the input signal without any level change – for a device with its own level controls or recording purposes e.g. – the
Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader path (prior to level control) is the right choice:

In this case, the unaltered INPUT signal (prior to level control) is forwarded to the line output.

If you want to feed a power amplifier or active loudspeakers, Variable-Out or Post-Fader (including level control) should be used.

In this case, the line output provides the signal at the level set by the volume control.

The V281’s line output offers further possibilities:
- balanced-in to balanced-out
- unbalanced-in to balanced-out
- balanced-in to unbalanced-out
- unbalanced-in to unbalanced-out​
[AND]

Switching between “Pre“ and “Post“ is effected via software:
Press and hold the “LINE“ pushbutton for about two seconds until the green LED starts flashing. The present status is displayed by the “XLR” LED (pre fader) or the “DIG” LED (post fader). The setting can be altered now by pressing the corresponding button. To complete the setting procedure, just press and hold the “LINE” button again until the green LED stops flashing.​


----------



## astrostar59

Many thanks for that Pharmaboy. I pressed my Line button and I have the XLR lighting up, so I am good I think, set to fixed line out. This is cool, as I currently use a passive pre-amp with a selector from my DAC to either the V281 (fixed line) or my power amp (variable line). I have the Aries Cerat SET Genus integrated coming in 6 weeks, so I can take the passive pre out of the circuit, and have one less set of interconnects in the HP feed chain. Nice!

Here is my SET amp, it is a beast, 67 kilos!


----------



## Pharmaboy

astrostar59 said:


> Many thanks for that Pharmaboy. I pressed my Line button and I have the XLR lighting up, so I am good I think, set to fixed line out. This is cool, as I currently use a passive pre-amp with a selector from my DAC to either the V281 (fixed line) or my power amp (variable line). I have the Aries Cerat SET Genus integrated coming in 6 weeks, so I can take the passive pre out of the circuit, and have one less set of interconnects in the HP feed chain. Nice!
> 
> Here is my SET amp, it is a beast, 67 kilos!



That is just beautiful. And immense.


----------



## koenoe

Is it easy to replace the faceplate of the V281? Currently got a silver one, but I'd like a black one.


----------



## lithiumnk

koenoe said:


> Is it easy to replace the faceplate of the V281? Currently got a silver one, but I'd like a black one.


Hi
Congrats for empyrean.
How is the pairing with v281?
I am interested in buying empyrean.
Thanks


----------



## 13713

koenoe said:


> Is it easy to replace the faceplate of the V281? Currently got a silver one, but I'd like a black one.



I would imagine so. The hardest part is actually getting one and so to do that you would need to contact either Violectric directly or Violectric America depending on your location. Shoot them an email and see about getting the part first.


----------



## koenoe

13713 said:


> I would imagine so. The hardest part is actually getting one and so to do that you would need to contact either Violectric directly or Violectric America depending on your location. Shoot them an email and see about getting the part first.


That would have been my next question indeed. I'll drop them an email and I'll share their reply in this topic. Thanks!


----------



## chungjun

I can chip in on this. As I was considering replacing my front panel, I've reached out to Lake People / Violectric before and asked if it is something I can do on my own. Fried kindly took the time to reply:-

_"If you have some skills in screwing it should not be a big problem to change the front panel yourself. You need some tools like an Allen (hex) key 2,5 mm and 1.5 mm,  a Torx T10 and a tool (can be a pliers) for the hex nut of the potentiometers."_



koenoe said:


> Is it easy to replace the faceplate of the V281? Currently got a silver one, but I'd like a black one.


----------



## koenoe

chungjun said:


> I can chip in on this. As I was considering replacing my front panel, I've reached out to Lake People / Violectric before and asked if it is something I can do on my own. Fried kindly took the time to reply:-
> 
> _"If you have some skills in screwing it should not be a big problem to change the front panel yourself. You need some tools like an Allen (hex) key 2,5 mm and 1.5 mm,  a Torx T10 and a tool (can be a pliers) for the hex nut of the potentiometers."_


Thanks for sharing that! Why didn't you do it eventually? And did they tell you where you could get one?


----------



## 13713

It looks like just 4 hex screws as posted above with the correct dimensions. You can find a single driver with the right size at any tool store so that is not hard. WHen I ordered my V850 originally they only had gold feet and Violectric America was cool enough to swap them out before they sent my order out so I imagine parts like feet and front plates exist as spares and they just throw those parts together per order request and send them out the door. Three years later I still rock the same stack and honestly there are other things out there but this setup for me is really quite brilliant and headache free. The only thing that has ever made me a little jealous was a Eddie Current Balancing Act and of course Electrostatic offerings.


----------



## chungjun

koenoe said:


> Thanks for sharing that! Why didn't you do it eventually? And did they tell you where you could get one?



It was a 'to-do' that somehow got sidelined due to various reasons and your earlier post just piqued the interest to do the replacement all over again. 

I reached out to Lake People (Europe) directly. You can try reach out to them too via their Contact Us (info@lake-poeple.de) for availability.


----------



## koenoe

chungjun said:


> It was a 'to-do' that somehow got sidelined due to various reasons and your earlier post just piqued the interest to do the replacement all over again.
> 
> I reached out to Lake People (Europe) directly. You can try reach out to them too via their Contact Us (info@lake-poeple.de) for availability.


Thank you!


----------



## jerick70

koenoe said:


> Is it easy to replace the faceplate of the V281? Currently got a silver one, but I'd like a black one.


Yes very easy.  I've switched mine a couple of times.


----------



## Pharmaboy

lithiumnk said:


> Hi
> Congrats for empyrean.
> How is the pairing with v281?
> I am interested in buying empyrean.
> Thanks



 +1 !!


----------



## Fegefeuer

I've written down a few listening impressions of the new Edition Eleven via the V281.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/upcoming-ultrasone-edition-11-and-pro-1480i.888800/#post-14634473


----------



## astrostar59 (Dec 9, 2018)

*


 
V281 v Woo Audio WA5LE anyone?*
I am curious how the WA5LE performs on the LCD4 mainly. Has anyone here heard that and an idea how it compares to the V281? The LCD4s need plenty of drive to sound there best, and the WA5LE apparently manages to drive the 87dB Abyss well.....


----------



## jerick70

astrostar59 said:


> *
> V281 v Woo Audio WA5LE anyone?*
> I am curious how the WA5LE performs on the LCD4 mainly. Has anyone here heard that and an idea how it compares to the V281? The LCD4s need plenty of drive to sound there best, and the WA5LE apparently manages to drive the 87dB Abyss well.....


I've owned both. Still own the V281. Very different sound. I prefer the WA5. I'm a tube guy though. 

The WA5 is brighter but more euphoric. The V281 is a bit darker and precise.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

astrostar59 said:


> *
> V281 v Woo Audio WA5LE anyone?*
> I am curious how the WA5LE performs on the LCD4 mainly. Has anyone here heard that and an idea how it compares to the V281? The LCD4s need plenty of drive to sound there best, and the WA5LE apparently manages to drive the 87dB Abyss well.....


This probably belongs on the LCD-4 forum but I was just reading this review of the LCD-4 today—http://www.hdphonic.com/en/headphones/audeze-lcd-4/— and they have this to say about it with the WA5LE: 
“The thrust and the yield of transients was good, just as the reconstruction of the sound scene was precise. The voices and the acoustic instruments take on a realism that gives us almost the distinct sensation of being in the same studio where the recording took place. There is a lack of materiality in the low register, but the musicality that was missing in the two previous combinations, here comes to life, giving rise to that very pleasant, warm sound full of harmonics that is typical of tubes.”
They don’t compare it to the V281 but they do seem to prefer the LCD-4’s with powerful solid state amps over tube amps. I finally bit the bullet myself and sprung for a pair of the LCD-4’s (not at full price, don’t be silly!) which I should be getting this week. Gotta say one of the great virtues of owning the V281 is that I never have to worry if it’ll power my headphones adequately or be a good match for any cans I want to try. It sounds great with everything I’ve thrown at it—probably almost 10 headphones since I bought it. Some headphones I’ve found preferable on my tube amp but it is nowhere near as versatile overall as the V281.


----------



## jmac1516

Malcolm Riverside said:


> This probably belongs on the LCD-4 forum but I was just reading this review of the LCD-4 today—http://www.hdphonic.com/en/headphones/audeze-lcd-4/— and they have this to say about it with the WA5LE:
> “The thrust and the yield of transients was good, just as the reconstruction of the sound scene was precise. The voices and the acoustic instruments take on a realism that gives us almost the distinct sensation of being in the same studio where the recording took place. There is a lack of materiality in the low register, but the musicality that was missing in the two previous combinations, here comes to life, giving rise to that very pleasant, warm sound full of harmonics that is typical of tubes.”
> They don’t compare it to the V281 but they do seem to prefer the LCD-4’s with powerful solid state amps over tube amps. I finally bit the bullet myself and sprung for a pair of the LCD-4’s (not at full price, don’t be silly!) which I should be getting this week. Gotta say one of the great virtues of owning the V281 is that I never have to worry if it’ll power my headphones adequately or be a good match for any cans I want to try. It sounds great with everything I’ve thrown at it—probably almost 10 headphones since I bought it. Some headphones I’ve found preferable on my tube amp but it is nowhere near as versatile overall as the V281.


Do you prefer the V281 or the Pendant for your Eikons?


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

jmac1516 said:


> Do you prefer the V281 or the Pendant for your Eikons?


Well the Pendant was made to go with ZMF headphones and I think specifically the Eikon and Atticus, so it’s pretty hard to top the synergy it has with those cans. The Pendant adds some lushness that the Eikons lack with the V281 without sacrificing the speed, imaging and clarity that are the Eikon’s strengths. But Zach from ZMF told me he had a V281 for a while himself and regretted parting with it, so I think he’d agree it is also a great pairing with the Eikon. 
I will say that I had the ZMF Auteur for a while and preferred that headphone with the V281 over the Pendant. The Auteur has a more languid sound signature compared to the Eikon and it needed the extra power and precision the solid state offered to sound its best to me. 
Don’t sleep on using the V281 as a preamp with other headphone amps either. I often use it as a preamp with the Pendant (and vice versa) to lend a slightly drier tonality when I feel that’s called for. When I used the V281 as a preamp with the Massdrop CTH i felt it vastly improved that amp, which already sounded pretty good to begin with.


----------



## jmac1516

I agree with your assessment of the V281 and Atticus. Excellent!  I am curious to try a solid tube amp as well but always hesitate as the V281 is so versatile with all my phones.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Gotta say one of the great virtues of owning the V281 is that I never have to worry if it’ll power my headphones adequately or be a good match for any cans I want to try.



Great post. I own 6 solid state amps, each with its own personality & sonic profile. The V281 actually isn't the most powerful (that title goes to the Audio GD SA-31SE, which outputs 10WPC @40 ohms (insane power). Still, the V281 sounds & acts like the most powerful of all. And it clearly is the most flexible & adaptable, both sonically & operationally. Of all the headphones I've heard on the V281 (some near-endgame quality), I've only had 1 sound less than wonderful (the very source-finicky ZMF Atticus). But it sounded no better on any of the other 5 SS amps, so one can hardly lay that on the V281.

I have yet to hear the LCD-4, but I own pre-fazor versions of the LCD-2.1 (an early example) & LCD-3. Both sound superb on the V281.

I've also had the interesting experience of comparing sonic results w/3 X 300 ohm headphones (ZMF Eikon & Auteur, HD650) on the V281 vs an OTL, the Woo WA3 (all using V281's SE output to match the SE WA3). The WA3 sounds somewhat different from the V281, but certainly not better. 

The V281 is also my day-to-day preamp in this desktop audio system--a job it does superbly well.

"A bit darker and precise" ... well said. I would add that dynamics (macro & micro) and bass depth/impact are world-class on the V281.

There is very little this amp cannot do...


----------



## stemiki

Happy Holidays!


----------



## raoultrifan

project86 said:


> Btw, I keep meaning to post this but always forget.
> 
> Please DO NOT use an adapter to run single-ended headphones from the balanced output of a V281. Or _any _Violectric headphone amplifier. Or any _other _brand of headphone amp, for that matter. Those adapters can DESTROY your amplifier. This is not a theoretical "maybe it's a bad idea...." type of thing. This is a DANGEROUS and very real way to kill your amp, and it's happened before on several occasions that I know of. Don't be tempted!
> 
> Balanced headphones can use an adapter to run from a 1/4" jack. That's fine. But the other way around is a big problem!





fdg said:


> Just for illustration, picture taken from Amazon
> https://www.amazon.com/SX-T-3-Balanced-Headphone-Cable-Adapter/dp/B01MYS8DG8
> 
> *The above adapter is the best way to cook ANY balanced headphone amp.*
> ...



If this cable adapter has only the non-inverting pins from the XLR connected to Left & Right from the jack and the other XLR 2 pins remain not connected, and the ground from the jack gets connected to the XLR metallic plug, which is connected to amplifier's ground, then it might work actually...or at least amplifier will not get blown away. Something similar is inside my Matrix HPA-3B that is fully balanced, from head to tail (there are 4 little amplifiers inside connected to the XLR-output and 2 of these amplifiers are connected to the 6.3mm output-jack). By XLR metallic plug connector I mean a plug having the 5'th pin that needs to get soldered to GND, like this plug https://ro.farnell.com/productimages/standard/en_GB/250752-40.jpg.

However, if at least one of the 4 XLR pins gets connected to the ground, then amp probably dies or fuses get blown or output resistors (if any) will get smoked instantly.

The above assertion can be verified with a multimeter (ohm-meter to measure the cable/adapter, volt-meter while playing a sinewave and then measure the voltage directly on the XLR's amplifier's plug relative to GND/case) or scope.


----------



## jerick70

raoultrifan said:


> If this cable adapter has only the non-inverting pins from the XLR connected to Left & Right from the jack and the other XLR 2 pins remain not connected, and the ground from the jack gets connected to the XLR metallic plug, which is connected to amplifier's ground, then it might work actually...or at least amplifier will not get blown away. Something similar is inside my Matrix HPA-3B that is fully balanced, from head to tail (there are 4 little amplifiers inside connected to the XLR-output and 2 of these amplifiers are connected to the 6.3mm output-jack). By XLR metallic plug connector I mean a plug having the 5'th pin that needs to get soldered to GND, like this plug https://ro.farnell.com/productimages/standard/en_GB/250752-40.jpg.
> 
> However, if at least one of the 4 XLR pins gets connected to the ground, then amp probably dies or fuses get blown or output resistors (if any) will get smoked instantly.
> 
> The above assertion can be verified with a multimeter (ohm-meter to measure the cable/adapter, volt-meter while playing a sinewave and then measure the voltage directly on the XLR's amplifier's plug relative to GND/case) or scope.


When I see an adapter like this I usually say this is a big no no.  Excellent info.  But I'm still just going to buy a balanced cable instead.  It will cost much more to replace your headphones or get your amp fixed, than buying a balanced cable, if the adapter does go sideways on you....


----------



## DrWhite (Dec 27, 2018)

Hi,

Does the clicking noise on the relay control cause harm to the equipment? Heaphone or active speaker?


----------



## 13713

DrWhite said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does the clicking noise on the relay control cause harm to the equipment? Heaphone or active speaker?



No, it takes some getting used to but it is fine. The clicking is from the unit nothing else.


----------



## raoultrifan

jerick70 said:


> When I see an adapter like this I usually say this is a big no no.  Excellent info.  But I'm still just going to buy a balanced cable instead.  It will cost much more to replace your headphones or get your amp fixed, than buying a balanced cable, if the adapter does go sideways on you....



Risk with adapters like these is huge and chances to blow up the headamp is high, indeed. However, it's good that many headamps today are able to drive natively both single-ended and balanced headphones.


----------



## DrWhite

Anyone compared v281 and benchmark hpa4?


----------



## cj3209

lithiumnk said:


> ...I am using lcd i4 on -12db pregain and tbh this the closest sound to analogue I have ever heard.( really close).
> 
> V281 is for life imho.
> 
> Cheers


@lithiumnk:  I too, thought the V281 would pair very well with my i4s.  Can't wait to try it out!

Happy New Year, everyone!


----------



## commtrd

I imagine i4 does sound sweet with that amp. They sound pretty darn good with Hugo2 and GLMk2 also. Basically they scale up real well. Amazing really.


----------



## bluenight (Jan 3, 2019)

@Malcolm Riverside
I see you have the Thx 789. How does it stand up to the V281?  I have one Thx coming my way. Got really great specs on paper.


----------



## kanter

What is the difference on the PreAmp Out stage comparing the v281 to the v220 - does the v281 use 4 amplifiers to output on its XLR outputs, and does the v220 only use 2, or does it not work like that, can someone explain?


----------



## kanter

Looking at the circuit diagrams for them I would assume both use the same outputs on the XLR and the v220 vs v281 is not affected between models?


----------



## ArthurPower

kanter said:


> What is the difference on the PreAmp Out stage comparing the v281 to the v220 - does the v281 use 4 amplifiers to output on its XLR outputs, and does the v220 only use 2, or does it not work like that, can someone explain?



The pre-amp output stage is identical for both the V220 and V281. The only functional difference between the two models is the balanced headphone output (V281) which requires a second stereo amplifier board.


----------



## kanter

ArthurPower said:


> The pre-amp output stage is identical for both the V220 and V281. The only functional difference between the two models is the balanced headphone output (V281) which requires a second stereo amplifier board.


Thanks, that's good to know!


----------



## kanter

I now have the V220, I use it as a preamp, connected to my Neumann KH 80 monitors, which are just for listening, the big volume knob is great and love the sound signature of this thing in preamp mode


----------



## kanter

Also I purchased the built in DAC but now I am looking for a V850 for a decent price.....


----------



## kanter

shea said:


> I have the v281 with the lake people rs06. My understanding is the latter is the same internal components as the v850 but without line out volume control or manual selection of up-sampling multipliers, neither of which I'd want, anyway. You save about us$500 by foregoing those options. The combo is amazing to my ears. That said, the only other dac I've tried with the v281 is one of the little portable Fostex things, and you'd expect the rs06 to sound significantly better at ~2x the price and power from the mains. The v281/rs06 combo takes a lot of the edge off even the hd700's considering the v281 is a solid state amp. For me, the hd700's become usable for just about everything except for tambourine heavy tracks. That's unbalanced, too, by the way. I'm waiting on a balanced cable to compare with the hd800's.



Thanks for this, good to know this could be a viable alternative to the V850


----------



## Mediahound

So I finally got around to doing a video review of this great amp:


----------



## jlbrach

no doubt the 281 is a classic, i am using it with both the susvara and abyss and love it


----------



## cj3209

Mediahound said:


> So I finally got around to doing a video review of this great amp:



Great video.  One comment was that if you reduce the pregain via the switches in the back (I reduced mine by 12 on both channels based on a recommendation by @lithiumnk), my iems work really really great.  Of course I use the RHA CL2 and Audeze i4 which scale very well.


----------



## Fegefeuer

added your review to the front page

on the topic of pre-gain I find -14db/-12db already highly mandatory if you run headphones like the TH-900 from it. My TH-900 doesn't even have a balanced XLR mod yet and it already has the lowest volume control range out of all my headphones.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I, too, find it mandatory to lower gain by 12dB on both the headphone output & line output. Had I not done so, that big volume pot would barely get about 8AM for any headphone (or the amp+monitors+sub pathway).


----------



## fenstr

Has anyone compared Violectric's dedicated preamp, the V630, to the V281's preamp? 

I'd love to hear any impressions of the V630 if anyone has any experience with it.

Thanks.


----------



## cj3209 (Feb 1, 2019)

fenstr said:


> Has anyone compared Violectric's dedicated preamp, the V630, to the V281's preamp?
> 
> I'd love to hear any impressions of the V630 if anyone has any experience with it.
> 
> Thanks.


I would venture a guess that separates usually sound 'better' than a "all in one."  I asked violectric whether the separate DACs were better than the add-on DACs for the HP amps and he said they do sound better albeit not by a whole lot.  The point of separates, IMHO, is the added flexibility along with slightly better sound.  The V630 has 3 analog inputs while the V281 has one.

Not sure if the V630 will sound a lot better than the preamp section of the V281; the sound differences may just be minimal; a good preamp shouldn't add anything to the sound.

Just my 2 cents worth.


----------



## 13713

fenstr said:


> Has anyone compared Violectric's dedicated preamp, the V630, to the V281's preamp?
> 
> I'd love to hear any impressions of the V630 if anyone has any experience with it.
> 
> Thanks.



As a stand alone pre-amp it will be a little better. Do you need a stand alone pre-amp? What does your chain look like? Sourcce-DAC-AMP (?) - ? Always with audio equipment it is situational.


----------



## fenstr (Feb 1, 2019)

13713 said:


> As a stand alone pre-amp it will be a little better. Do you need a stand alone pre-amp? What does your chain look like? Sourcce-DAC-AMP (?) - ? Always with audio equipment it is situational.



My chain is as follows:
Fiio X3 > coaxial out (bypassing its dac) > Schiit modi multibit > Schiit Jotunheim > Yamaha HS8 powered monitors.
Or Jot > Sennheiser HD600s
Vinyl: Rega RP6 > Jot phono module > HS8s or HD600s

I'm currently using the Jot as both a headphone amp and the preamp to my powered monitors via balanced outs. I read in a review that using Schitt Saga is significantly better than the Jot as a preamp so was considering getting one mainly for use with my monitors but then I stumbled onto the Violectric PRE V630 for a very good price - I ended up ordering one after researching Violectric/Lake People and after asking their CEO Fried some questions. He was most helpful.

The V281 seems to get good reviews as a preamp but there isn't much info on the V630.


----------



## jerick70

The Elekit TU-8500 tube preamp looks like a big winner.  The only issue is it's SE only.  If you need a balanced preamp look elsewhere.  

http://www.elekit.co.jp/en/product/TU-8500


----------



## Ragnar-BY

fenstr said:


> My chain is as follows:
> I stumbled onto the Violectric PRE V630 for a very good price - I ended up ordering one


It would be interesting to hear your impressions.

By the way, I suggest you to think about Violectric amp. Can`t say anything about their preamps, but all V2xx amplifiers are really great.


----------



## 13713

fenstr said:


> My chain is as follows:
> Fiio X3 > coaxial out (bypassing its dac) > Schiit modi multibit > Schiit Jotunheim > Yamaha HS8 powered monitors.
> Or Jot > Sennheiser HD600s
> Vinyl: Rega RP6 > Jot phono module > HS8s or HD600s
> ...



Nice let me know what you think of it. Good to see a fellow vinyl user! 

My vinyl setup is: Sota Nova > VP600 > V281 > HD800 (originals no mod). I absolutely love it but it is an aquired taste for sure. How do you like your Rega? I was lookng at Rega or a Project as a secondary TT.


----------



## fenstr

Ragnar-BY said:


> It would be interesting to hear your impressions.
> 
> By the way, I suggest you to think about Violectric amp. Can`t say anything about their preamps, but all V2xx amplifiers are really great.



I would seriously consider a Violectric headphone amp if I didn't already own the Jotunheim.  It's a great amp and the phono module that came with it is exceptional value.

V281 owners may have all the preamp / headphone amp qualities that they need in one little box without need for separates.


----------



## fenstr

13713 said:


> Nice let me know what you think of it. Good to see a fellow vinyl user!
> 
> My vinyl setup is: Sota Nova > VP600 > V281 > HD800 (originals no mod). I absolutely love it but it is an aquired taste for sure. How do you like your Rega? I was lookng at Rega or a Project as a secondary TT.



I love my Rega - I've had no problems with it and no complaints. I can only recommend them based on my positive experience.  I thoroughly enjoy the music that comes from it. I may upgrade the cartridge in it one day as a relatively inexpensive upgrade. Aside from that I get the feeling that I'd have to spend a whole lot more for minor gains in sound quality.

Your Sota Nova looks like a serious piece of equipment. Do you use the V281 only for headphones or do you also utilise its preamp for speakers?


----------



## 13713

fenstr said:


> I love my Rega - I've had no problems with it and no complaints. I can only recommend them based on my positive experience.  I thoroughly enjoy the music that comes from it. I may upgrade the cartridge in it one day as a relatively inexpensive upgrade. Aside from that I get the feeling that I'd have to spend a whole lot more for minor gains in sound quality.
> 
> Your Sota Nova looks like a serious piece of equipment. Do you use the V281 only for headphones or do you also utilise its preamp for speakers?



Only for headphones.


----------



## Luke Thomas

On a different note. Could someone suggest a reasonably priced dac to pair with the violectric amp. Im afraid my dragonfly red does not do the amp justice.


----------



## 13713

Luke Thomas said:


> On a different note. Could someone suggest a reasonably priced dac to pair with the violectric amp. Im afraid my dragonfly red does not do the amp justice.



It would help if there is a price range. The definition of reasonably priced varies widely especially in niche hobby communities.


----------



## Luke Thomas

13713 said:


> It would help if there is a price range. The definition of reasonably priced varies widely especially in niche hobby communities.


Oh so true. Id like to say the least expensive one worth buying, I don't believe id spend more than $1000.


----------



## 13713

Luke Thomas said:


> Oh so true. Id like to say the least expensive one worth buying, I don't believe id spend more than $1000.



At that price point there are options. Schiit is always good and you can even look around and with a little patience you could possibly find a V850 used at the top of that budget.


----------



## jerick70

Luke Thomas said:


> Oh so true. Id like to say the least expensive one worth buying, I don't believe id spend more than $1000.


The RME ADI-2 paired really well with my V281.  If you don't need DSD the XMOS addin DAC was by far the best match of all the DACs I tried with the V281.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Thx, MQA option could be nice.


----------



## jerick70

Luke Thomas said:


> Thx, MQA option could be nice.


All of the MQA capable DACs that I own didn't sound to my liking with the V281.  I have an iFi Micro iDSD BL.  The rest of the DACs under $1000, that do MQA,  I'm not familiar with so couldn't tell you what pairs well or not.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I don't have MQA files & have no real interest in upgrading hardware to accommodate MQA (just my 2 cents).

Having said that, all the MQA-capable DACs I know of are delta-sigma designs. Which would be an issue for me, since my preference is multi-bit, specifically NOS multi-bit (I have 2 multi-bit DACs, one of them NOS).

And the V281 w/either of those DACs sound _so_ fine

Even if I had any interest in MQA, I'd probably choose the manifest sonic qualities of multibit & NOS over a new file variant.

(priorities)


----------



## cj3209

jerick70 said:


> All of the MQA capable DACs that I own didn't sound to my liking with the V281.  I have an iFi Micro iDSD BL.  The rest of the DACs under $1000, that do MQA,  I'm not familiar with so couldn't tell you what pairs well or not.


I use my SP1000 Cu (MQA-capable) balanced out to the V281 XLR inputs and the sound is very good to my ears.  Digital out via the SP1000 to the V281 DAC is hit or miss for me...


----------



## Malcolm Riverside (Feb 7, 2019)

bluenight said:


> @Malcolm Riverside
> I see you have the Thx 789. How does it stand up to the V281?  I have one Thx coming my way. Got really great specs on paper.


         Much to my chagrin I’ve had too much else going recently on to reply to this in a timely fashion, but here is my long overdue write-up on these two amps:
Firstly, the THX 789 definitely lives up to its specs. In fact when I first got it and plugged in my Utopias I actually had a moment of wondering if I still needed the V281! The THX has lots of power, clarity, spaciousness, and a linear, uncolored sound. I find the Utopia to be a great pairing because it shares a lot of those characteristics with the amp. I currently use the THX 789 as the amp in my “B” rig so obviously, I will not be replacing my V281 with it, but in terms of quality sound reproduction the two amps are not so far apart as you’d imagine based on the vast price differential between the two (and I have the relay volume control V281 model.) The V281 has more grip on the music if that makes sense, just that little extra oomph and palbable feeling to the notes that I really like in this amp. I found the Massdrop THX amp to have a little more brightness that sometimes gave it an edge in clarity over the V281 with some recordings but other times became a bit grating to me and meant I had to turn my music down or switch amps in the middle of listening sessions. So there can be a listener fatigue factor that I don’t ever get with the Violectric amp.

The V281 is also more versatile in terms of headphone pairings for my money. Despite its impressive power specs I found the THX a bit too polite when paired with my more demanding headphones, like the HE6se and the LCD-4. That said, it is more than capable of handling those beasts and it is nice to have a gain knob on the front to make adjustments, it’s just that the V281 added some real juice to the dynamic swings that I feel are the strength of those headphones while the THX was a bit more of neutral observer. I haven’t given the THX AAA 789 much of a run out with my HD800S or Eikon headphones since they see almost exclusive use with my tube amp nowadays, but I do enjoy listening to my Sony MDR-Z1R’s on it. So you can see that for such a cheap amp the THX AAA scales well with totl headphones, but is still bested in my opinion by the V281’s flexibile, supple sound signature.

In terms of other features besides sound the V281 shows its quality (and price) pretty quickly. It’s build quality is such that I imagine you could drop it from a moving vehicle and have it still work, while the THX 789 would probably explode all over the pavement (though it is well-built). The pre-amp functionality of the V281 is very well implemented and a big plus, the volume knob and power button have a much more quality feel, there’s a 5 year warranty, remote, etc etc. Given the fully upgraded V281 costs about 9 times as much as the THX AAA 789, it damn well better wipe the floor with the cheaper amp on those factors! So from that perspective you get what you pay for, but if we’re just talking about sound... the THX holds its own. Now if anyone has heard the Benchmark HPA4 ($3000 msrp) w/THX AAA technology and can compare it to the V281 I’d love to know what you think.


----------



## bluenight (Feb 7, 2019)

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Much to my chagrin I’ve had too much else going recently on to reply to this in a timely fashion, but here is my long overdue write-up on these two amps:
> Firstly, the THX 789 definitely lives up to its specs. In fact when I first got it and plugged in my Utopias I actually had a moment of wondering if I still needed the V281! The THX has lots of power, clarity, spaciousness, and a linear, uncolored sound. I find the Utopia to be a great pairing because it shares a lot of those characteristics with the amp. I currently use the THX 789 as the amp in my “B” rig so obviously, I will not be replacing my V281 with it, but in terms of quality sound reproduction the two amps are not so far apart as you’d imagine based on the vast price differential between the two (and I have the relay volume control V281 model.) The V281 has more grip on the music if that makes sense, just that little extra oomph and palbable feeling to the notes that I really like in this amp. I found the Massdrop THX amp to have a little more brightness that sometimes gave it an edge in clarity over the V281 with some recordings but other times became a bit grating to me and meant I had to turn my music down or switch amps in the middle of listening sessions. So there can be a listener fatigue factor that I don’t ever get with the Violectric amp.
> 
> The V281 is also more versatile in terms of headphone pairings for my money. Despite its impressive power specs I found the THX a bit too polite when paired with my more demanding headphones, like the HE6se and the LCD-4. That said, it is more than capable of handling those beasts and it is nice to have a gain knob on the front to make adjustments, it’s just that the V281 added some real juice to the dynamic swings that I feel are the strength of those headphones while the THX was a bit more of neutral observer. I haven’t given the THX AAA 789 much of a run out with my HD800S or Eikon headphones since they see almost exclusive use with my tube amp nowadays, but I do enjoy listening to my Sony MDR-Z1R’s on it. So you can see that for such a cheap amp the THX AAA scales well with totl headphones, but is still bested in my opinion by the V281’s flexibile, supple sound signature.
> ...


This post have nothing to do with V281. I cant compare with it.

I have had the Thx 789 for some time now and its certainly great for its price. I have listened with it exclusively with HD800S tried HD 650 quick with it. I am a one system guy. I can only compare it with Lake People RS 02 (€583) or from memory  Sennheiser HDV 820. I cant say Thx 789 is better then RS 02.

What i like with the Thx 789 is the clarity and transparent sound, here i think it wins over RS 02. Thx has better articulation and less congestion and less confussion of sounds. I consider RS 02 very transparent still though. Thx can be slightly thin with HD800S imo.

RS 02 wins with more fullbodied sound, warmer bass lines, more powerfull sound, i think it has better synergy with HD800S, more tube like and less fatiguing, i can play it louder. Thx can be to harsh on certain recordings with HD800S, with HD 650 it was less harsh. So maybe a headphone like Focal Clear would pair better with Thx 789. Or just a warmer headphone.

I will know the true outcome when i will switch back to RS 02 as amp in my system in a month or two. Will i miss the clarity and articulation then too much? Or just think i am home. I will probebly switch between these amps now and then and have them running for some months. Both are great.


----------



## Sound Eq (Feb 8, 2019)

can i ask how the v281 compares in sound signature to ifi ican pro, i will use my chord qutest with it

especially details, bass, and mids, i am looking for an euphoric full bodied and detailed amp that pairs well with audeze cans. Something tonally did not play well with my cans when using ifi ican pro, it was lack of details and musicality. If v281 will not fit the my criteria, what else can I look into. I like amps that can provide great full bodies sound and are at the same time detailed but not harsh or cold sounding


----------



## cj3209

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask how the v281 compares in sound signature to ifi ican pro, i will use my chord qutest with it
> 
> especially details, bass, and mids, i am looking for an euphoric full bodied and detailed amp that pairs well with audeze cans. Something tonally did not play well with my cans when using ifi ican pro, it was lack of details and musicality. If v281 will not fit the my criteria, what else can I look into. I like amps that can provide great full bodies sound and are at the same time detailed but not harsh or cold sounding


Violectric pairs well with Audeze cans.  Sound via my i4s and previous LCD-2s were rich and full bodied.  Haven't heard the ican pro.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Anyone paired the 281 with Focal Clear headphones? Could this amp be to strong for a 55 ohm headphone? Thanks


----------



## Fegefeuer

That’s what the pre-gain setting is for. So you can use a broad selection of headphones with different requirements. At - 14db pre-gain (the lowest setting) I can use He-500 (89db), He-4 (86db), HD 800 (102db), TH-900 (100db), Hd650 (103db) without having to raise a dip or go beyond 2 o'clock. Not even with the Th-900 will you run even nearly into any channel imbalance unless you listen to the air inside their cups. 
So even when I ignored sensivity vs efficiency the TH-900 should be a clear (ha!) indicator that you will not run into any problems.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Fegefeuer said:


> That’s what the pre-gain setting is for. So you can use a broad selection of headphones with different requirements. At - 14db pre-gain (the lowest setting) I can use He-500 (89db), He-4 (86db), HD 800 (102db), TH-900 (100db), Hd650 (103db) without having to raise a dip or go beyond 2 o'clock. Not even with the Th-900 will you run even nearly into any channel imbalance unless you listen to the air inside their cups.
> So even when I ignored sensivity vs efficiency the TH-900 should be a clear (ha!) indicator that you will not run into any problems.


Thx,  With experimentation. The low impedance Clears. Sound best with +12.  Better bass. I would think low impedance headphones needs -12


----------



## jlbrach

I have listened to the susvara balanced with the chord dave with the 281 set to -12 without an issue.....this amp can drive anything without issue although i will say i would find it difficult to use the amp balanced with any efficient HP like the Utopia or LCD-4Z which both are driven easily by the dave alone


----------



## Pharmaboy

cj3209 said:


> Violectric pairs well with Audeze cans.  Sound via my i4s and previous LCD-2s were rich and full bodied.  Haven't heard the ican pro.



I had a pre-fazor LCD-3 (recently sold) & a pre-fazor LCD-2.1, an early one. Both sound(ed) terrific on the V281. Just about everything sounds at least very good on the V281...authoritative, dynamic, great bass--a big sound that's not tiring/fatiguing.

A friend has the iCan Pro. I have yet to hear that, but he tells me it's good, but not quite V281-good. On the other hand, it has some real flexibility for tonal adjustment (bass boost, 3D simulator, 3 blends of SS+/- tubes). Depending on your setup, that could be an endgame amp.


----------



## jlbrach

281 is better but the ican is quite good and is small and versatile


----------



## Anaz (Feb 12, 2019)

Luke Thomas said:


> Anyone paired the 281 with Focal Clear headphones? Could this amp be to strong for a 55 ohm headphone? Thanks



I listen to Clears via *balanced* headphone output from a V281 with the volume pot around 3 o’clock. Here’s my chain:
ADI-2 DAC @ +13dB >>XLR>> V281 @ -6dB

I could reduce the dB to get more movement in the volume pot, but I’m content with the sound as things stand.


----------



## chimney189

Does anyone know the difference between this and the Violectric brand?

https://www.chinahao.com/Product/52...mplifier_with_preamp__germany_lakers_hpa_v281


----------



## cj3209

It's a Chinese knock-off.  Buyer beware.


----------



## chimney189

cj3209 said:


> It's a Chinese knock-off. Buyer beware.



Hmmm, but has anyone here actually tried it?


----------



## cj3209

Why would you want to waste $800 buying something that's clearly a copy with no design initiative?


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

chimney189 said:


> Hmmm, but has anyone here actually tried it?


I think if you have $800 to spend and you want a Chinese amp wait for Massdrop to drop the Gustard H20 or see if you can get a used V280 or Bryston BHA-1 for less than $1000. I can’t understand why you’d spend that kind of money on a crappy knockoff when there are plenty of genuine, quality headphone amps available for the same price. Also someone asks about that clone amp every few months on this forum and they always get the same response: don’t do it!


----------



## chimney189

Malcolm Riverside said:


> I think if you have $800 to spend and you want a Chinese amp wait for Massdrop to drop the Gustard H20 or see if you can get a used V280 or Bryston BHA-1 for less than $1000. I can’t understand why you’d spend that kind of money on a crappy knockoff when there are plenty of genuine, quality headphone amps available for the same price. Also someone asks about that clone amp every few months on this forum and they always get the same response: don’t do it!



Note taken!
Have you heard the Gustard A20H by any chance?  Compared to the H20 by any chance?
I'm just using an HE-1000 V2 headphone.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Malcolm Riverside said:


> ...Also someone asks about that clone amp every few months on this forum and they always get the same response: don’t do it!


I'm guilty of asking this.


> I think if you have $800 to spend ... see if you can get a used V280 or Bryston BHA-1 for less than $1000...


Yep -- I actually got both (BHA-1 & V280) for about $900 each.  Ended up re-selling the V280 as the SQ for the two were too close for it to make sense to keep both amps.

BTW, I've never seen a single review or impression of the knock-off 281, although there seems to be some discussion of it on some Russian boards (per google search).  I imagine that something that sounds _similar_ to a V281 at 1/3 the price would be irresistible to folks where the price of the V281 represents half a year's salary (or more).


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

chimney189 said:


> Note taken!
> Have you heard the Gustard A20H by any chance?  Compared to the H20 by any chance?
> I'm just using an HE-1000 V2 headphone.


I used to have the A20H actually. It’s very capable and has a nice dac section. As an amp it’s not in the same league as the V281. I think the HE1000’s couldn’t reach their full potential with the A20H but if you can find it for a cheap price it’s a good option for an all-in-one solution. I haven’t heard the H20 but I’d like to! It’s got tons of power and classy looks.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Malcolm Riverside said:


> I think if you have $800 to spend and you want a Chinese amp wait for Massdrop to drop the Gustard H20 or see if you can get a used V280 or Bryston BHA-1 for less than $1000. I can’t understand why you’d spend that kind of money on a crappy knockoff when there are plenty of genuine, quality headphone amps available for the same price. Also someone asks about that clone amp every few months on this forum and they always get the same response: don’t do it!



Exactly. Also, the discussion of clones is not allowed as stated by a moderator. 

If by all means people really want to possibly burn their money with this pos, then please do it, but take the discussion elsewhere. We've had an encounter a few months ago and while it's always to fun to mock the laughable cheapass build it only pollutes the thread. 
For 900 Dollars you can get a Mjolnir 2, used V280 maybe, BHA-1 (as stated in this thread) and many more. All very good amps for the money.


----------



## 13713

Fegefeuer said:


> Exactly. Also, the discussion of clones is not allowed as stated by a moderator.
> 
> If by all means people really want to possibly burn their money with this pos, then please do it, but take the discussion elsewhere. We've had an encounter a few months ago and while it's always to fun to mock the laughable cheapass build it only pollutes the thread.
> *For 900 Dollars you can get a Mjolnir 2, used V280 maybe, BHA-1 (as stated in this thread) and many more. All very good amps for the money*.



There are so many great used gear options at this price point. 

I don't understand the blip in the knock off discussion as it pretty clearly is a thread dedicated to the amp and not the clones.


----------



## chimney189 (Feb 13, 2019)

Sorry for bringing it up.. 

The V200 sounds interested, and I've found a listing of a V181 for around $600.  However, I did try and match up the Cavalli Liquid Carbon with the HE-1000 V2 and it seemed too warm.  I have a feeling that the V181 has a somewhat similar coloration to sound.

I'm kind of leaning towards the Jotunheim.


----------



## LCMusicLover

chimney189 said:


> ...However, I did try and match up the Cavalli Liquid Carbon with the HE-1000 V2 and it seemed too warm.


I concur.  V280 & Bryston are/were better with HEKv2.  I don't care for the sound of HEKv2/LCX pairing.  Biggest problem with HEKv2 for me is the 'laid-backness'.  Oppo Sonica DAC vs Pontus is an improvement. Also, Silver Dragon cable.


> ...I'm kind of leaning towards the Jotunheim.


I suspect this might be a very good pairing.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Do we prefer our DBs setpoint  down with the volume pot up, or the DBs up with the volume pot down?


----------



## Anaz (Feb 13, 2019)

Luke Thomas said:


> Do we prefer our DBs setpoint  down with the volume pot up, or the DBs up with the volume pot down?



This is an oversimplification, but theoretically and all things being equal, the the higher the output voltage (or dBu) from the source (e.g. DAC), the higher the SNR* - this assumes the voltage is within the input specs of the amp. I generally go with the highest source voltage that gives me sufficient movement on the volume pot.

* In practice, I think most people (myself included) can't hear the difference between a SNR of 100 dB vs. 110 dB so take this with a grain of salt.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Anaz said:


> This is an oversimplification, but theoretically and all things being equal, the the higher the output voltage (or dBu) from the source (e.g. DAC), the higher the SNR* - this assumes the voltage is within the input specs of the amp. I generally go with the highest source voltage that gives me sufficient movement on the volume pot.
> 
> * In practice, I think most people (myself included) can't hear the difference between a SNR of 100 dB vs. 110 dB so take this with a grain of salt.


Thx. Somewhere I heard that amps to better at higher volumes. With the thought that low db with the amp volume pot cranked would be good. I  have played wit this, will have to give it more time.


----------



## Anaz

Luke Thomas said:


> Thx. Somewhere I heard that amps to better at higher volumes. With the thought that low db with the amp volume pot cranked would be good. I  have played wit this, will have to give it more time.



Agreed, see what sounds best to you and let us know.

Regarding amp volume, I think what you heard is true for tube amps in order to increase the gain and (desirable) distortion from the tube.


----------



## Badas

Anaz said:


> Agreed, see what sounds best to you and let us know.
> 
> Regarding amp volume, I think what you heard is true for tube amps in order to increase the gain and (desirable) distortion from the tube.



Yes. That is true of my tube amp. I use the V281 as a pre-amp so have remote volume control.
However my tube amp sounds way better cranked with low volume input.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Anaz said:


> Agreed, see what sounds best to you and let us know.
> 
> Regarding amp volume, I think what you heard is true for tube amps in order to increase the gain and (desirable) distortion from the tube.


With simple tests. I’m thinking the +12 adds bass to the Focal Clears


----------



## Pharmaboy

Badas said:


> Yes. That is true of my tube amp. I use the V281 as a pre-amp so have remote volume control.
> However my tube amp sounds way better cranked with low volume input.



The V281 is a superb preamp--effortless, dynamic, and smooth (like everything else it does)

Your main amp is a WA22? Why don't you use that as a preamp?

I'm very interested in the WA22 as an amp, and would be even more interested if it had unbalanced outputs for preamp use, as well as balanced. 

I have 3 or 4 amp/preamps and change up now and then. Though the V281 is the best.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Anaz said:


> Agreed, see what sounds best to you and let us know.
> 
> Regarding amp volume, I think what you heard is true for tube amps in order to increase the gain and (desirable) distortion from the tube.



Very interesting. Had no idea tube & SS amps differed in this way.

Given the gain issues in my system (typically too much), I consider it a win when I can do headphone listening in the 10AM-12PM range on the V281's big pot...which means I can do my low-volume classical streaming on monitors/sub @~8:45AM on the pot.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Luke Thomas said:


> With simple tests. I’m thinking the +12 adds bass to the Focal Clears



You are using +12 pregain with the Clears? How is your volume range?


----------



## Luke Thomas

Fegefeuer said:


> You are using +12 pregain with the Clears? How is your volume range?


not much. 25%


----------



## ara1 (Mar 7, 2019)

Have a dilemma. Moon 430 or v281 combined with LCD-3F. Anyone to help me. The Dac in the Moon is good, But my Oppo 105D(upgraded) sound better so no must have there. Anyone? Listens mostly to classical, vocals, violin, piano etc.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ara1 said:


> Have a dilemma. Moon 430 or v281 combined with LCD-3F. Anyone to help me. The Dac in the Moon is good, But my Oppo 105D(upgraded) sound better so no must have there. Anyone? Listens mostly to classical, vocals, violin, piano etc.



I never heard the Moon 430--and I do own the V281, so can't compare their sound. BTW, also owned a pre-fazor LCD-3, so I'm familiar w/the sonic profile there.

IMO your choice boils down to design & features:

*Power: *it looks like the V281 has 4-5X the total power of the Moon. The Moon is rated at .667 WPC @32 ohms; V281 is rated at 2.8WPC @32 ohms, with double that power (oddly) at 100ohms.
_Power isn't everything, but with planars, power matters a lot. Not just sufficient power to get acceptable volume (may or may not be possible w/the Moon). But also excess power that somehow improves the "technicalities" of any HP. _
_V281 is the clear choice for power_

*Sonics:* Can't comment on the Moon, but I can tell you that the V281 (especially run in balanced mode) has 3 outstanding attributes that match up very well w/the LCD-3: terrific bass reproduction; state-of-the-art dynamics (better than any other SS I've heard); and very expansive, immersive soundstage. The LCD-3 has exceptional bass & soundstaging, but in my experience, needs help w/dynamics. So the V281 is a great match.
_Your sonic preferences matter here. The V281 is slightly warm (far from a goo-fest, but also far from the accentuated detail & "accuracy" of some designs). Some people prefer accuracy/detail above all else; for them, V281 is not ideal._

*I/O flexibility:* I've never used a Moon product, so can't be sure how they stack up. But the V281 is easily the most flexible, user options-rich amp I've ever used. You can listen to headphones alone; speakers alone; both together, with ability to mute either HP or line/preamp pathway via remote. You can also adjust the V281's line stage and HP stages separately to perfectly match both system gain & specific HP gain preferences (big adjustment range, too...+/- 14 db). And if you have the relay-stepped pot, you get perfect channel matching, top to bottom, 128 steps of volume adjustment (again, the best I've used).
I'm partial to the V281, as you can tell. But you can learn a lot about the Moon from others who use it; also from reviews here and in the audio press.


----------



## jlbrach

ara1 said:


> Have a dilemma. Moon 430 or v281 combined with LCD-3F. Anyone to help me. The Dac in the Moon is good, But my Oppo 105D(upgraded) sound better so no must have there. Anyone? Listens mostly to classical, vocals, violin, piano etc.



i have had both...the 281 is better and the dac in the moon isnt particularly good


----------



## ara1

I have v200 today. The Moon has så much more headroom and calm. Much more seperation of the instruments. Its not dark but somwhat laidback in å good sence. But the v200 is more on the edge. Has the 281 the same headroom as the Moon. I guess this is the main drawback of the v200. But tonality, bass, is good on the v200 but not in the same liege as the Moon. But i think i miss the tempo in the Moon.


----------



## jlbrach

the 281 balanced is a monster in terms of power and it is a very versatile amp with its pre gain functions


----------



## KcMsterpce

Here are my impressions on the V281:


----------



## Fegefeuer (Mar 13, 2019)

Luke Thomas said:


> not much. 25%



Have you compared your experiences (more bass) to lower gain?

I am using the HE-500 balanced on the V281 (GumBy has 4V output, RS06 set to the same) at lowest pre-gain possible and the bass it pumps out is hitting very clean and very hard, authorative. I wouldn't want more for the sake of my ears. Same with the HE-5LE and HE-4, all three much more demanding than the Clear.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I use my V281 w/-12 dB set on both line out/preamp and headphone out. Get much better system matching that way.

A little anecdote about bass of V281. For various reasons, in past couple weeks I had switched the V281 w/another amp/preamp, Audio GD's SA-31SE. It's a very competent preamp in particular, remote controlled & a very fine/granular digital volume design. I listened a lot to speakers that way, only occasionally on HPs.

Then yesterday I switched back to the V281 as preamp/amp. Turned up volume, and immediately could hear the low end fill in on the speakers--everything from lower mids on down became more present & impactful, plus the entire frequency range sounded more tangible/real and definitely more dynamic. It really wasn't subtle.

Like @Fegefeuer, I really don't need more bass than what the V281 gives me at these settings. Another way to say this: if it gave me more bass, the whole system might verge on too-bassy. As it is, it's just about perfect. This is pretty much how music sounds IRL in a good space: natural weight in lower registers & everything has dynamic impact.


----------



## cj3209

I tried +6 when connected to my 1266s and I was listening at around 8-oclock.  0 pregain works better for me.

The V281 is powerful.  The 1266 is out of this world and I only have the Phi CC and not the TC.

I digress but I look like I'm in a torture device
..lol


----------



## lithiumnk

V281 is still a superb amp. I have no complaints at all. I am very happy with it. 
It pairs with all type of HPs/iems with no problem and drives every HP out there with authority and dynamics. 

I know Niimbus is better on both paper & performance(user reviews) but still i feel that i've not completely explored v281. So, no more hunting SS amps for time being.

Btw V281 is a keeper. There are very few amps in the market which match its versatility.
Cheers


----------



## Pharmaboy

I just love the V281. It does everything extremely well, sonically & operationally. 

And I, for one, totally appreciate that "shoebox" shape some complain about. If you saw my desktop (extremely crowded) you'd see why: 

I actually built platforms to "go vertical" w/add'l components. 
My V281 sits on a platform above the Audio GD SA-31SE (it's the only way both could fit). V281's shape couldn't be better for my particular needs.


----------



## fdg

Today we hit the 500.000 mark.
Thank you all for your interest in our products.
We will continue and work hard to not disapoint you.


----------



## cj3209

fdg said:


> Today we hit the 500.000 mark.
> Thank you all for your interest in our products.
> We will continue and work hard to not disapoint you.


Is that 500,000 or just 500?

Lol


----------



## Ragnar-BY

fdg said:


> Today we hit the 500.000 mark.
> Thank you all for your interest in our products.
> We will continue and work hard to not disapoint you.


Congratulations!


----------



## 13713

fdg said:


> Today we hit the 500.000 mark.
> Thank you all for your interest in our products.
> We will continue and work hard to not disapoint you.



That is a great milestone.Congrats to the hard work and dedication of your team and company. I hope you bring joy to many more for many more years to come.


----------



## RobertSM (Mar 28, 2019)

I'm a new owner of V281 and was hoping to ask a question for those who own V281 with more experience.

I will be using V281 & Violectric DAC V850 together. My question is, should I run my tube headphone amp, Icon Audio HP8 MKII, from V281 lineout? Or should I just use DAC V850 rca cables straight into my tube headphone amp? My plan is to run V850 with XLR into V281 balanced. I could use V281 unbalanced out into my tube headphone amp. Basically using V281 as a preamp. Or is it preferred to just run V850 rca cables straight into tube headphone amp? My goal is to achieve what will give me the most sonic benefit. Thank you.


----------



## Pharmaboy

That's an interesting tube amp. Is it good? Do you like it?

I use the V281 as a preamp 99% of the time. The extremely flexible input/output design of the V281 makes it super-easy to use it as preamp & headphone amp at the same time: listen to HP + preamp out at same time; or just HP out; or just preamp out.

But your tube amp has a secret weapon: a pair of RCA outputs labeled "Loop Out." To me, that means the full-voltage signal that enters the amp, exits via Loop Out w/no influence of the volume pot. If so, just connect your DAC to the input of the Icon; then connect the Loop out to the RCA/single-ended input of the V281. Now you can listen to either amp at any desired volume--a most interesting setup, allowing you to easily switch from one headphone/amp to the other headphone/amp. 

Alternatively, you could reverse the V281 & Icon: connect DAC to V281 via balanced cable (if it's a fully balanced DAC, it may well sound better via balanced output than SE); then connect the SE output of the V281 to the input of the Icon. It's kind of a PITA, but you can actually set the output of the V281 to be strictly line out, unaffected by the volume pot. If you go to the trouble (it means opening the case), you get the exact same set up as in para above, but w/amps switched.

You have a lot of ways to play this. I have a lot of fun doing stuff like that...


----------



## RobertSM (Mar 28, 2019)

Thank you @Pharmaboy . Sounds like I have a couple of options, which is good.

Edit:

About the tube amp. Yes, I like it. It's simple in design and uses some of the most common tubes, allowing for tube rolling.


----------



## Anaz

Pharmaboy said:


> That's an interesting tube amp. Is it good? Do you like it?
> 
> I use the V281 as a preamp 99% of the time. The extremely flexible input/output design of the V281 makes it super-easy to use it as preamp & headphone amp at the same time: listen to HP + preamp out at same time; or just HP out; or just preamp out.
> 
> ...



You can set a fixed line-out using the front buttons. From pp. 21-22 of the V281 user manual:
*PRE-POST FADER or FIXED-VARIABLE*
The line-out signal can be tapped at two different points within the V281’s signal path.
If you wish to make use of the input signal without any level change – for a device with its own level controls or recording purposes e.g. – the Fixed-Out or Pre-Fader path (prior to level control) is the right choice: In this case, the unaltered INPUT signal (prior to level control) is forwarded to the line output.
If you want to feed a power amplifier or active loudspeakers, Variable- Out or Post-Fader (including level control) should be used.
In this case, the line output provides the signal at the level set by the volume control.

*Switching between "Pre" and "Post" *is effected via software:
Press and hold the “LINE“ pushbutton for about two seconds until the green LED starts flashing. The present status is displayed by the “XLR” LED (pre fader) or the “DIG” LED (post fader). The setting can be altered now by pressing the corresponding button. To complete the setting procedure, just press and hold the “LINE” button again until the green LED stops flashing.​
You need to open the V281 to change the line output level. Again, from p. 22 of the user manual:
*LINE-OUTPUT LEVEL *can be set by means of internal DIP switches located on the line-out circuit board. See page 33 for further details.
Generally, the level at the unbalanced output will equal the input level in pre-fader mode, or with the level control set fully clockwise in post-fader mode. By means of the DIP switches however, relative attenuation/gain can be set to –12, -6, 0, +6 or +12 dB.

Please note that output level at the balanced output is generally +6 dB higher than at the unbalanced output.​


----------



## RobertSM

Thanks for the tips to all those that have shared. I'm excited about this new addition and getting to know my new V281 to enjoy the music.


----------



## NDonchev (Sep 1, 2019)

I have the v281 for a few days, so I'm new to it. My impressions so far are that it is amazingly good technically - separation, clarity, soundstage, dynamics, detail, you name it... I've never heard music sound so real. It's like every sound is physically there. And there are a lot more positive things to be said here.

However, sometimes I feel like something is missing and I think that is emotional impact and engagement. I don't get goosebumps as often as I would expect and often I feel the emotional impact is somewhat missing. The thing is I don't have experience with other amps in this class. I still have the Teac HA-501, which is a great amp. Back then I preferred it to the v200 and on top of it it was cheaper.

So, do you have similar experience with the v281? Also, can you point me to similarly priced amp which offers more engagement? Maybe I'll have to go to tube amps... Woo audio WA22? I have never heard tube amp, so no idea how different it can be from solid state. Or maybe I just expect too much from audio as a whole 

I'm using HD800S balanced.

And don't get me wrong, I love the v281's sound and it will be really hard for me to decide to return it. It brought my audio setup to a whole new level and I think it will not be easy to find another amp with such superior characteristics. I'm just wondering if there are better options in terms of engagement. Maybe in some cases sacrificing technical superiority for more engagement is a good trade-off. Also, it definitely gets better and better with time. Probably I'm adjusting to the new sound and/or it's the amp's burning in.

EDIT: It turned out the DAC was the problem and not the v281. After getting a good DAC, nothing is missing while listening with the v281. The sound is engaging, colorful and brings more emotions in me.


----------



## 13713

NDonchev said:


> I have the v281 for a few days, so I'm new to it. My impressions so far are that it is amazingly good technically - separation, clarity, soundstage, dynamics, detail, you name it... I've never heard music sound so real. It's like every sound is physically there. And there are a lot more positive things to be said here.
> 
> However, sometimes I feel like something is missing and I think that is emotional impact and engagement. I don't get goosebumps as often as I would expect and often I feel the emotional impact is somewhat missing. The thing is I don't have experience with other amps in this class. I still have the Teac HA-501, which is a great amp. Back then I preferred it to the v200 and on top of it it was cheaper.
> 
> ...



So if you feel that something is lacking the only other suggestion, I can make is to look at tube amps. After reading what you posted I came to the V281 from a completely different direction and I appreciate seeing a different view on what it sounds like to another owner. I wanted technical and analytical and so was directed after reviews and listening to various products to the V281. If you have a chance and I know this is hard to do I would look into trying to listen to an EC Balancing Act or options by Woo as tube amps are brilliant but much different compared to SS.


----------



## Arniesb

NDonchev said:


> I have the v281 for a few days, so I'm new to it. My impressions so far are that it is amazingly good technically - separation, clarity, soundstage, dynamics, detail, you name it... I've never heard music sound so real. It's like every sound is physically there. And there are a lot more positive things to be said here.
> 
> However, sometimes I feel like something is missing and I think that is emotional impact and engagement. I don't get goosebumps as often as I would expect and often I feel the emotional impact is somewhat missing. The thing is I don't have experience with other amps in this class. I still have the Teac HA-501, which is a great amp. Back then I preferred it to the v200 and on top of it it was cheaper.
> 
> ...


Dont expect fun from HD800S even on warm amp like violectric. Besides what Dac you are using?


----------



## 111MilesToGo

NDonchev said:


> I have the v281 for a few days, so I'm new to it. My impressions so far are that it is amazingly good technically - separation, clarity, soundstage, dynamics, detail, you name it... I've never heard music sound so real. It's like every sound is physically there. And there are a lot more positive things to be said here.
> 
> However, sometimes I feel like something is missing and I think that is emotional impact and engagement. I don't get goosebumps as often as I would expect and often I feel the emotional impact is somewhat missing. The thing is I don't have experience with other amps in this class. I still have the Teac HA-501, which is a great amp. Back then I preferred it to the v200 and on top of it it was cheaper.
> 
> ...


A few thoughts of mine since I have the same components. Guess you have achieved a lot already with a V281 plus HD 800S balanced!

Question 1: What‘s your source (DAC)? Mine is a Chord Hugo 2.
Question 2: I think a good burn-in is a must. I usually run them for >100 hours without listening along the way, only at hour 0 and in the end in order to avoid a creeping brain adjustment.

I agree with all positives you mentioned. As you say, it is all about what a specific person desires. The Hugo 2 and HD 800S are designed to cater for transparency and good analytics, not the ”fun“ aspects. I felt big jumps forward came when (1) putting the V281 in between H2 and HD 800S, and (2) when running the HD balanced out of the V281. Now, I am neither missing any musicality nor any power, and I don‘t feel transparency to get compromised.

Since so wanted to have a slightly ”looser“ presentation at times, I got a Beyerdynamic T1 2nd gen as my second headphone, also run balanced. This one makes for a bit more impressiveness without crossing the boundary to boom and bang and bliss, but it is a bit less transparent.

Coming to your question: Yes, maybe a tube amp could get you towards your goal. No, I haven‘t heard the HD 800S on tubes. Currently, my ultimate goal would be very different: It would be a TOTL Stax electrostat with a top driver unit, maybe one from Iceland (Mjolnir). I have owned a not-so-TOTL Stax with Stax tube driver a long time ago, and I auditioned Stax recently. But that would be a long way, in particular when considering that a Hugo 2 is not the end of the road either - that would be a Chord TT2 with an MScaler.


----------



## NDonchev (Mar 31, 2019)

It will be interesting experience to try good tube amp. I heard very good things about the EC Balancing Act, also it's listed on the InnerFidelity's wall of fame as one of the best in the world. The thing is not only I don't have the possibility to try it, but also I don't know how to buy it in Europe if I want it. Some info on this will be useful. As for the WA22, I have the possibility to travel about 6 hours to a neighboring country to hear it and I'm tempted to do it. Also, I'm willing to travel in Europe if there is a possibility to try more interesting gear.

Maybe the DarkVoice 336SE would be a nice amp to introduce me to the tube world. But on the other hand it will be cheaper to just go and hear the WA22.

I might write more detailed impressions of the v281, but I definitely need more time with it. I have a lot to say, but at the same time it's hard to put into words and in non-native language.

As for the DAC, I''m currently using the Fiio X3 II DAP. I'm considering an update to the v850 or Matrix Sabre-X Pro. Also, maybe second set of differently sounding headphones will be a great addition.

Well, it seems this audio obsession is bottomless. I though that I will just build a great system and that's it. It seems my curiosity won't stop there... I guess now I'm officially one of you guys - crazy about audio with never ending interest and curiosity. Literally, a lot of people around me think I'm crazy paying such money for this


----------



## Arniesb

NDonchev said:


> It will be interesting experience to try good tube amp. I heard very good things about the EC Balancing Act, also it's listed on the InnerFidelity's wall of fame as one of the best in the world. The thing is not only I don't have the possibility to try it, but also I don't know how to buy it in Europe if I want it. Some info on this will be useful. As for the WA22, I have the possibility to travel about 6 hours to a neighboring country to hear it and I'm tempted to do it. Also, I'm willing to travel in Europe if there is a possibility to try more interesting gear.
> 
> Maybe the DarkVoice 336SE would be a nice amp to introduce me to the tube world. But on the other hand it will be cheaper to just go and hear the WA22.
> 
> ...


This dap is a joke for HD800S no sugar coating. Buy good dac like Qutest or rme adi 2 then comeback.


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## sahmen (Mar 31, 2019)

NDonchev said:


> It will be interesting experience to try good tube amp. I heard very good things about the EC Balancing Act, also it's listed on the InnerFidelity's wall of fame as one of the best in the world. The thing is not only I don't have the possibility to try it, but also I don't know how to buy it in Europe if I want it. Some info on this will be useful. As for the WA22, I have the possibility to travel about 6 hours to a neighboring country to hear it and I'm tempted to do it. Also, I'm willing to travel in Europe if there is a possibility to try more interesting gear.
> 
> Maybe the DarkVoice 336SE would be a nice amp to introduce me to the tube world. But on the other hand it will be cheaper to just go and hear the WA22.
> 
> ...



With that DAP acting as your DAC, I think you need to take everything you have heard from the V281 with a big grain of salt, because the DAC is every bit as important as the amp, in determining how that Amp sounds. My V281 is fed by a Schiit Yggdrasil A2, and I am betting you would be surprised at how the sound of your V281 would be transformed, if you were to feed it with a Yggdrasil instead...

Which is why I wouldn't go doing an helter-skelter buying and tinkering with other Amps too quickly, Tubes/or SS, if I were you, until I have determined what the V281 can really give you with a more appropriate DAC, that can bring out its best performance...  A good DAC is a must, because without one, every other Amp (and there are indeed great ones out there) you try out might also underperform, and you might come off with the same "something is missing" feeling you're having right now, regardless of how great the amp might be on its own... That sounds to me like a rather inefficient and ultimately pricey way to experiment your way to audio-nirvana, even if you're blessed with unlimited supplies of funds. A more patient, and carefully calibrated path of experimentation would certainly be in order here...  Bear in mind that no matter how great an amp, or headphone, or any single component might be in its own right, what counts in the end, and trumps everything else is *system synergy.* Without "system synergy" you would be selling each component short, and you might wind up blaming your dissatisfactions on component after component, accusing each of sins they have probably not committed....  Sadly, this happens on head-fi all the time....

So please proceed with patience and caution, and do not rush to judgment about any component, until you're sure you've deployed it in the chain of components that are apt to make it perform at its best.  My humble two cents. 

Oh, and I agree with you that the audio obsession could be "bottomless." But who really wants to be traveling on a "bottomless" road, when all is said and done?  Fortunately, there are wonderful oases of delight along the way to audio nirvana in each of which a cornucopia of endgame delights in audio bliss are to be had, provided one chooses one's components with care, and is always mindful of the requirements for system synergy.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

sahmen said:


> With that DAP acting as your DAC, I think you need to take everything you have heard from the V281 with a big grain of salt, because the DAC is every bit as important as the amp, in determining how that Amp sounds. My V281 is fed by a Schiit Yggdrasil A2, and I am betting you would be surprised at how the sound of your V281 would be transformed, if you were to feed it with a Yggdrasil instead...
> 
> Which is why I wouldn't go doing an helter-skelter buying and tinkering with other Amps too quickly, Tubes/or SS, if I were you, until I have determined what the V281 can really give you with a more appropriate DAC, that can bring out its best performance...  A good DAC is a must, because without one, every other Amp (and there are indeed great ones out there) you try out might also underperform, and you might come off with the same "something is missing" feeling you're having right now, regardless of how great the amp might be on its own... That sounds to me like a rather inefficient and ultimately pricey way to experiment your way to audio-nirvana, even if you're blessed with unlimited supplies of funds. A more patient, and carefully calibrated path of experimentation would certainly be in order here...  Bear in mind that no matter how great an amp, or headphone, or any single component might be in its own right, what counts in the end, and trumps everything else is *system synergy.* Without "system synergy" you would be selling each component short, and you might wind up blaming your dissatisfactions on component after component, accusing each of sins they have probably not committed....  Sadly, this happens on head-fi all the time....
> 
> So please proceed with patience and caution, and do not rush to judgment about any component, until you're sure you've deployed it in the chain of components that are apt to make it perform at its best.  My humble two cents.


+1

My post above says that I love the V281 + HD 800S for musicality and technical achievements. Nothing (almost nothing) to be missed if - sic! - the source is up to it.


----------



## jerick70

NDonchev said:


> I have the v281 for a few days, so I'm new to it. My impressions so far are that it is amazingly good technically - separation, clarity, soundstage, dynamics, detail, you name it... I've never heard music sound so real. It's like every sound is physically there. And there are a lot more positive things to be said here.
> 
> However, sometimes I feel like something is missing and I think that is emotional impact and engagement. I don't get goosebumps as often as I would expect and often I feel the emotional impact is somewhat missing. The thing is I don't have experience with other amps in this class. I still have the Teac HA-501, which is a great amp. Back then I preferred it to the v200 and on top of it it was cheaper.
> 
> ...


I didn't think the V281 lacked engagement.  It could be the synergy with the transport your using.

If you're going to go to tube amps, look at Elekit gear.  I prefer it over Woo.  Though the WA5 was amazing i think the Elekit TU-8600 is better. I thought the Woo WA22 was only so so.  The TU-8200DX / TU-8500 combo trumps it in every way.


----------



## 13713

I completely missed you were using a DAP as your DAC. I would look into a dedicated DAC you already mentioned the V850 and I will shill out that my stack since purchase a few years ago has been the V281, V850, PPA V600 all those feed into HD800 (The original non modded) and the only change to that entire thing is a Forza cable. I have had zero reason to change my setup as it is brilliant. I will say this though there is something magical and special about tubes but honestly at the end of the day source is 100% the most important part of the entire chain.


----------



## NDonchev (Apr 1, 2019)

First of all, I want to say that the feeling that something is missing is quicky fading and instead I feel happier and happier with the v281. Maybe in some cases it takes some time to adjust and appreciate the sound from new gear. It seems I will not be looking for amp change anytime soon. At the same time I'm tempted to attend CanJam London 2019 in July to try more gear. Bad thing is it will be a little late as probably I'll finish building my system by bying a DAC in a month. Probably the v850.

I see most of you point to the DAP I'm using being a significan weak point in my system. However, I'm a bit sceptical about how much a better DAC will make a hearable difference in the sound. For example, I did blind tests with a friend assisting between the Fiio X3 II and my Galaxy S6 phone on the Audio Technica MSR7 headphones. To my surprise, on a blind test neigher of us could distingush between the two despite reading on the reviews that the Fiio is a significant improvement compared to a phone. Well, it is significant improvement over my old laptop's audio. However, later I compared the two with the Teac HA-501 and HD800S and with this gear I think there is obvious difference in sound, although this was not a blind test. On top of that there are always some people on the Internet saying there is no difference between a good cheap DAC aka Fiio X3 II and a better and significantly pricier one.

Even more - @Arniesb says a few posts back that the Fiio DAP is a joke for the HD800S and pointed me to the Qutest DAC. I went to read some info about the Qutest and found the Z-Reviews video about it in which he says he couldn't distinguish between the Qutest and a 200$ DAC in AB tests. I express these concerns further in the v850 thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...pressions-thread.761936/page-30#post-14863675
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...pressions-thread.761936/page-31#post-14865036

Despite all of this, I still hope you guys are right and with such top level system (v281 and HD800S) a better dedicated DAC will make a difference. Probably when I buy a new DAC I will blind test it agains the Fiio and see. Even better will be if the difference is obvious and there is no need for blind testing. Such is the case with the upgrade from Fiio X3 II as a DAC/amp to Teac HA-501 and from Teac HA-501 to v281. Just a few seconds are enough to be sure there is a big difference.

As for tube amps, probably the idea for getting a world-class one will stay with me and I will do it at some later point, but no rush to do it now. As I said already, I'm getting more and more satisfied with the v281. Actually the idea of getting a v281 was coming back to me over and over again since the first time I heard it and was very impressed by it about a year ago. So, it's a big think finally having it at home


----------



## lithiumnk

NDonchev said:


> First of all, I want to say that the feeling that something is missing is quicky fading and instead I feel happier and happier with the v281. Maybe in some cases it takes some time to adjust and appreciate the sound from new gear. It seems I will not be looking for amp change anytime soon. At the same time I'm tempted to attend CanJam London 2019 in July to try more gear. Bad thing is it will be a little late as probably I'll finish building my system by bying a DAC in a month. Probably the v850.
> 
> I see most of you point to the DAP I'm using being a significan weak point in my system. However, I'm a bit sceptical about how much a better DAC will make a hearable difference in the sound. For example, I did blind tests with a friend assisting between the Fiio X3 II and my Galaxy S6 phone on the Audio Technica MSR7 headphones. To my surprise, on a blind test neigher of us could distingush between the two despite reading on the reviews that the Fiio is a significant improvement compared to a phone. Well, it is significant improvement over my old laptop's audio. However, later I compared the two with the Teac HA-501 and HD800S and with this gear I think there is obvious difference in sound, although this was not a blind test. On top of that there are always some people on the Internet saying there is no difference between a good cheap DAC aka Fiio X3 II and a better and significantly pricier one.
> 
> ...


Borrow/home audition a desktop DAC...try it yourself... HD800S & V281 deserve a better DAC.... also always run v281 in balanced to get the most of it. I have tried v281 with hugo2, Dave, HMSDave, Metrum Acoustics Pavane L3 ...the upgrade in SQ is easily audible....
Cheers


----------



## Fegefeuer

I tried a lot of DACs with the V281, ranging from the Asus Xonar Essence Muses over the Anedio D2, Modi Multibit, RS06 to the Gungnir A2 while having loaned or listened to quite a few others. The better the DAC the more it supercharged the V281 or let's say: let it it shine for what it was designed. An amp of this class simply requires a great DAC.
However there is nothing wrong with starting "low" and saving up for a better DAC. Just don't sidegrade or take too long to upgrade while making losses like I did. 

Take your time, appreciate what you have right now. it will get even better. The V281 made me hunt for the "oldies" again instead of buying those kilobuck headphones. HE-500 for instance never sounded so magnificient before and is still a very unique untouchable headphone with its signature and strengths. And it came pretty cheap (all my used headphones did). Plenty of good headphones of the used market because some people still run for the latest and supposedly greatest.


----------



## Anaz

Fegefeuer said:


> I tried a lot of DACs with the V281, ranging from the Asus Xonar Essence Muses over the Anedio D2, Modi Multibit, RS06 to the Gungnir A2 while having loaned or listened to quite a few others. The better the DAC the more it supercharged the V281 or let's say: let it it shine for what it was designed. An amp of this class simply requires a great DAC.
> However there is nothing wrong with starting "low" and saving up for a better DAC. Just don't sidegrade or take too long to upgrade while making losses like I did.
> ...



+1


----------



## NDonchev (Apr 2, 2019)

Thanks for all the answers. It's being very helpful.

I would definitely look into headphones in the future, but for now I think the focus should be to complete my current system.

So, based on your experience which DAC would you recommend for the v281? Is the RS 06 / v850 a really good option? What about the Gungnir or the Matrix Sabre-X Pro?


----------



## 111MilesToGo

NDonchev said:


> Thanks for all the answers. It's being very helpful.
> 
> I would definitely look into headphones in the future, but for now I think the focus should be to complete my current system.
> 
> So, based on your experience which DAC would you recommend for the v281? Is the RS 06 / v850 a really good option? What about the Gungnir or the Matrix Sabre-X Pro?


Guess it‘s the other way round, not DAC for V281, but one should start with selecting a DAC, since the V281 is most versatile and has the most prowess. My experience is that combining the right DAC and headphone is most important; the V281 fits in easily.

So, with HD 800s, I can strongly recommend the Hugo 2, if budget permits (cf. the dedicated thread here). I have no recommendation at lower budget. I auditioned the Mojo, too, but knowing myself I went for the big guy immediately. With respect to your remark above on comparing  various DAPs and DACs, I must say the difference between Mojo and Hugo 2 can easily by heard on appropriate headphones. Side remark: Myself, I started the whole venture with an AudioQuest DragonFly Red, but merely as a little playground to get acquainted with the various computer operating systems (esp. Linux) and audio applications.

On adding an internal DAC to the V281: I guess everybody will admit these are not the best solutions. They seem to be inferior to the V281 as an amp. So, I recommend to go for an external DAC.


----------



## Anaz

NDonchev said:


> Thanks for all the answers. It's being very helpful.
> 
> I would definitely look into headphones in the future, but for now I think the focus should be to complete my current system.
> 
> So, based on your experience which DAC would you recommend for the v281? Is the RS 06 / v850 a really good option? What about the Gungnir or the Matrix Sabre-X Pro?



ADI-2 DAC or Chord Qutest


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## Pharmaboy (Apr 2, 2019)

NDonchev said:


> Thanks for all the answers. It's being very helpful.
> 
> I would definitely look into headphones in the future, but for now I think the focus should be to complete my current system.
> 
> So, based on your experience which DAC would you recommend for the v281? Is the RS 06 / v850 a really good option? What about the Gungnir or the Matrix Sabre-X Pro?



You have a wide array of choices for an external DAC. You can spend anything from ~$100 USD to $10,000 USD. The goal is usually to get a really good DAC for your system that doesn't bankrupt you.

The 1st big choice is:

*The types of music files you listen to: *
_If you don't use DSD files or plan to in future, DACs that lack this feature, or only permit it via PCM, become possible for you (my favorite DACs are in this group, for what it's worth)_
_Similarly, if you don't use MQA files, DACs that lack this feature (most of them) become possible_

*The sound you prefer:* do you value accuracy & detail above all else? Highest of the highs, lowest of the lows, etc? Or do you favor a more musical, organic, life-size sound (sounding like a real symphony orchestra)?
The 2nd big choice IMO will be type of digital design selected:

*Delta-sigma digital *(most DACs are d-s). Many of those allow high-speed DSD; a few also allow MQA decoding. Most have a number of filters for limited sonic shaping. Some of these DACs sound amazing, but IMHO, some sound bad. Typical sins of poorly/inexpensively implemented delta-sigma designs are brightness, edginess, "thin" note bodies, lacking tonal/timbral realism.
*Multibit digital* (my preference): These DACs are a little harder to find but IMO it's worth the trouble, since in many cases the sound is more lifelike, real, and less edgy. But multibit can also sound bad if it's done cheaply/not rigorously.
_The ultimate form of multibit is NOS (non oversampling multibit)--my favorite._


You can rather easily find "combination" units (DAC+headphone amp, w/ or w/o preamp outputs)--these can be used as system DACs, but allow use of headphones should you eventually need that. Many also allow preamp use, which can be very convenient.

You have a lot of choices.


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## lithiumnk

Pharmaboy said:


> You have a wide array of choices for an external DAC. You can spend anything from ~$100 USD to $10,000 USD. The goal is usually to get a really good DAC for your system that doesn't bankrupt you.
> 
> The 1st big choice is:
> 
> ...


I agree with you.
I had hugo2 & v281. I was happy with my setup(chord fanboy) then I listened(home auditioned) to Metrum Acoustics Onyx R2R NOS DAC for 3 weeks... I was shocked...I couldn't believe my ears.... the tonality, instrument timbre, rich & natural vocals just blew me away....the resolution was top notch...trebles had more coherency & articulation..they were never harsh, edgy or sibilant (not rolloff)... then compared pavane level 3 & hmsdave...I was surprised by the results... sold my hugo2 & few other gears..took some loan.. got Pavane (level 3)....THE END!


----------



## NDonchev (Apr 2, 2019)

Thanks for the suggestions and the summary of the DAC options.

Thing is, the choice gets harder and harder the more I read. I think the main problem is I don't have the opportunity to try a variety of different DACs. I might have the option to try only Chord Mojo and V800 locally.

On top of that, for every positive opinion about a DAC I find equally negative one. For example, I might save some more money and probably buy Schiit Yggdrasil on the multibit side, although that's a big stretch for my budget. As you probably know a lot of people say it's one of the best DACs. At the same time measurements of the DAC are showing poor performance and also some people say it doesn't sound so good. Is the Schiit Yggdrasil NOS? As I'm writing this a new very positive impression was posted by @lithiumnk - the Metrum Acoustics Onyx R2R NOS DAC. Never heard of it, maybe it's also a good choice.

Top sound quality is my top priority so I could sacrifice some extras like DSD support.

As for the type of sound as I started this journey I was all for the analytical and detailed sound. However, with time my preferences seem to shift towards engaging, musical sound. I don't think anymore that absolute accuracy is the most important thing. Currently, I think emotional enjoyment is more important than intellectual one, at least when listening to music. Anyway, a combination between the two is probably best.


----------



## jerick70

@NDonchev I've tried quite a few DACs with the V281.  In my experience the V281 is very dependent on synergy.  Here are the DACs I've tried....

1) Matrix X Sabre Pro - Meh.  Great DAC but not with the V281.  It's good to fantastic with all of my other Preamps and amps.
2) Audio GD R-28 - Two thumbs up!!!  This is a great pairing.
3) iFi iDSD Micro Black Label - Another two thumbs up!!!  This DAC continues to amaze me.  For $350 it was a steal.  This is the best budget DAC that I've tried with the V281.
4) MHDT Lab Atlantis - Meh, Meh, and more Meh.  This does not pair well with the V281 at all.  Skip it for the V281 but good to outstanding with other pres and headphone amps.
5) Violectric XMOS addon DAC - This DAC is made for the V281.  I thought the pairing was excellent.  The use is limited in this day and age though.
6) RME ADI-2 Pro - Another two thumbs up!!!!  Very good pairing and has endless features including EQing that actually works.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Honestly, the thing to do when swamped by DAC confusion is simple: read everything you can find about DACs. Read about high-level delta-sigmas, multibits, and NOS multibits. Read a lot of user/listener impressions. Sure, they're all over the place & contradictory. But eventually you start to triangulate the truth (apparent truth) from all this stuff.

Schiit Yggdrasil is a top-of-the-line multibit (not true NOS, I don't think). Many here love the sound. Some describe it as slightly bright & dry (the Schiit "house sound"). But there's little doubt it's an endgame, non-delta-sigma design of high level implementation.

Metrum Acoustics Onyx is a high-level, well-regarded NOS design. It uses FPGA (field programmable gate array) programming to refine the output of the resistor ladder, a technique I'm curious about (ie, it's NOS, but manages to have some sound shaping post-conversion). My next DAC will likely be of this type.

These 2 DACs are equivalent in price & features. Both have a single RCA output & single balanced output. Useful if (like me) you would use both outputs simultaneously (balanced out to Violectric V281 for headphone+system preamp. It's not clear to me whether you could even use a balanced DAC...that depend on the input design/configuration of the device you send the DAC's output to.

I do have on odd-ball suggestion. Rather than try to assess sonic value of these high-level/cost DACs (big commitment financially), why not experiment by purchasing (for example) an inexpensive NOS DAC that many here say nice things about? I'm talking about the Audio GD R2R 11 (link below). Besides the fact it has a very useful headphone amp & separate preamp capabilities (which can be useful in their own rights)--it is the absolute cheapest NOS DAC about which people say nice things.

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R11/R2R11EN.htm

This would cost ~$400 including shipping...not sure if that is also true for Bulgaria. 

Why suggest such a thing? Because you'd get to hear NOS digital--not top-of-the-line/best available, but NOS that many people praise for natural, organic sound quality--for very little money. And if you didn't like it, you could sell and get back most of your $$.

The other tactic, if you know other audio types, is try to borrow a DAC to audition (not easy).


----------



## Pharmaboy

Just reading @jerick70's post above...the iFi iDSD Micro Black Label is another classic/no-brainer inexpensive DAC, roughly the same price as Audio GD R2R 11, but this design is delta-sigma. Many people like it; it also has a headphone amp & preamp capability.

(good recommendation!)


----------



## jerick70

Pharmaboy said:


> Just reading @jerick70's post above...the iFi iDSD Micro Black Label is another classic/no-brainer inexpensive DAC, roughly the same price as Audio GD R2R 11, but this design is delta-sigma. Many people like it; it also has a headphone amp & preamp capability.
> 
> (good recommendation!)


@NDonchev just an FYI my listening preferences lean to the warm smooth side of the audio spectrum.  

The iDSD BL is a great DAC.  Fully discreet with dual dacs.  It is warm though.


----------



## OctavianH

Guys, I have some questions since this thread is quite extensive.

1) Are there any technical differences between V281 and V220 besides the balanced output? Are there any sound signature differences?

2) Has anyone tried V281 (or V220) with Chord Qutest and Beyerdynamic T1.2? I wonder if the sound signature is not overly dark (warm)?

Many thanks in advance. I might want to add a second SS amp to my headphone line which currently uses a tube amp.


----------



## hifimckinney

I too have a question on V281, if anybody could help.

The fact that V281 comes with relay volume control is to cause least disturbance to the the signal but since v281 also has a balance control, the signal travels through it too. Is that too done with any special hardware?


----------



## NDonchev (Apr 6, 2019)

Based on your posts and additional reading on the Internet here is my options for a DAC for the v281:
*1. Violectric V850*
    + Good synergy and visually matching with the v281
    + Neither too analytical, nor too musical
    + Polite and smooth sounding
    - Not as lively, rich and realistic sounding as good implemented R2R (Multibit) DACs
*2. Chord Qutest*
    + Lots of positive reviews
    + More musical then the RME ADI-2 and just a DAC (no extra features I will not use)
    + Better aesthetics compared to the RME ADI-2
    + Exceptional measurement results
    - Missing balanced outputs
    - USB input may not be the best
*3. Schiit Gungnir Multibit*
    + Characteristic sound - may be counted as a negative
    + Realistic sound, a bit warm, airiness, openness, soundstage
    - Poor measurment results
    - Needs time (maybe days) to stabilize and reach the peak of it's abilities
    - USB input may not be the best
*4. Metrum Acoustics Onyx*
    + Very lifelike presentation, realistic timbre, rich and beautiful sound
    + Good R2R implementation, but still has some of the limitations of R2R
    - Poor soundstage, atmosphere and airiness. Some prefer the Schiit Gungnir Multibit or even Schiit Bifrost Multibit (much cheaper)
    - A bit of treble roll off
    - Expensive

Keep in mind that these summaries just express (partly) my current feelings towards the DACs and it's very hard to summarize in a few points. I seem to be leaning to the objectivist camp as poor measurements bother me (at least when I haven't heard the DACs).

 It is possible to save some more money and go for the *Metrum Acoustics Onyx*, but if it lacks soundstage and atmosphere, that's a problem. I'm using the H800S, so soundstaging is important for me. Also, some people saying they prefer the much cheaper Schiit Bifrost Multibit is a problem. Why not buy the Schiit Bifrost Multibit then... Generally, the Metrum Acoustics Onyx seems like the riskier choice.

As for the *Schiit's DACs*, there are a lot of mixed opinions - some love them and some hate them.

The *Qutest*... it bothers me a bit that it seems like the Apple of audiophile gear. I feel like I will be paying a lot for their marketing, packaging, etc. Generally a lot of fanboysm.

@Pharmaboy's suggestion to first go for a good budget R2R NOS DAC and then probably upgrade is an interesting one. However, I want to get over with this audio choosing journey relatively fast as it is consuming a lot of time and energy and at the end it's not the most important thing in life. Besides I spend my time reading about audio instead of listening to my new v281 which is a shame...

It would be nice if there are people who have experience with some of these DACs to share more impressions and compare them.

I think realistic, musical, rich sound is what I'm after but I don't want to sacrifice too much details, cleanliness, air or soundstaging (or money).

Thanks again.


----------



## Pharmaboy

OctavianH said:


> Guys, I have some questions since this thread is quite extensive.
> 
> 1) Are there any technical differences between V281 and V220 besides the balanced output? Are there any sound signature differences?
> 
> ...



I own the V281 but am not an electrical engineer or expert in amp design. Nevertheless, I can tell you:

The V220 is the amp/preamp version of the V200 amp-only. It has input/output & gain adjustment flexibility similar to the V281
The V220 is single-ended only for headphone use
The V281 is both single-ended and balanced for headphones. That requires a different circuit topology than the V220--in essence, 2 X V200 w/a bigger/better power supply
I pretty sure both the V281 and V220 offer the same remote control upgrade pot, a 128-stepped design, said to sound somewhat better than the non-stepped Alps stock pot. I have this stepped pot with the V281 and find it to be excellent.
A note about "warmth." All the amps I end up getting are said to sound at least somewhat warm. I prefer that simply because I tend to hear amps described as "neutral" to be bright, edgy, or hard to tolerate. The V281 is what I would call very slightly warm. 

But if you focus only on this tonality (probably more pronounced in the V220, based on the warm V200), you'd overlook the real assets of the V281: big power, crushing bass (deep & impactful), endgame dynamics & the best soundstaging I've heard from SS. 

I regard the V281 as a truth-teller amp. It doesn't sugarcoat or editorialize the sound. If I want to hear how a given headphone really sounds, I turn to V281.


----------



## lithiumnk

NDonchev said:


> Based on your posts and additional reading on the Internet here is my options for a DAC for the v281:
> *1. Violectric V850*
> + Good synergy and visually matching with the v281
> + Neither too analytical, nor too musical
> ...


Just ask the dealer for showcase units of Onyx... the ones used at HiFi shows/review purposes.. 
Few of my friends have recently purchased Onyx, Pavane and Adagio. They got an excellent deal...especially on Pavane/Adagio...
They all migrated from schiit, chord, holo spring... 
Btw the so called "treble roll off" with NOS DACs is wrong imo. 
We are used to OS based DACs which portray the trebles is a different manner.(unnatural)

Try to listen to a live instrument in person and then compare the instrument timbre, tonality and treble response on the NOS vs OS DACs... for me NOS have a more natural treble presentation...
Artificially crisp/extended treble response on OS DACs gives a false sense of airiness and expansion of Soundstage.. 
So, my advice would be to audition the DACs yourself to get a more accurate idea of their sound.
YMMV


----------



## NDonchev

lithiumnk said:


> Just ask the dealer for showcase units of Onyx... the ones used at HiFi shows/review purposes..
> Few of my friends have recently purchased Onyx, Pavane and Adagio. They got an excellent deal...especially on Pavane/Adagio...
> They all migrated from schiit, chord, holo spring...
> Btw the so called "treble roll off" with NOS DACs is wrong imo.
> ...



So, do you feel like making a sacrifice with soundstage and airiness? Is it like you miss the bigger soundstage and does it detract from the enjoyment in your case? Others have described the soundstage as enveloping.

Actually, the dealer is Metrum Acoustics' online shop as I'm in Europe and they are Dutch company. I may ask them if they have showcase units, that's a good idea. Also, they accept returns, but with 10% fee.


----------



## sahmen

NDonchev said:


> Based on your posts and additional reading on the Internet here is my options for a DAC for the v281:
> *1. Violectric V850*
> + Good synergy and visually matching with the v281
> + Neither too analytical, nor too musical
> ...



One conspicuous absence on your list is the Schiit Yggy A2, especially since you have the Gungnir Multibit on your list... May I know if there is any special reason for that?   Yes, price-wise one might find the Yggy A2 to be relatively expensive, but its price is roughly within the range of that of the Metrum Onyx, so I wonder (The Yggy A2 maybe a little more expensive than the Onyx, but it is much closer to the price of the Onyx than the Gungnir, which is why I find the question about the absence of the Yggy2 to be pertinent). Plus if you are willing to try the used market, you could find extremely great deals on the Yggy v1, for example.  If I did not already have my Yggy A2, I would consider getting a Yggy v1 at a reasonable price on the used market, and sending it in to Schiit Audio for the Analog 2 upgrade, which will get you a brand spanking new 3-year warranty on your A2, no questions asked...  It is actually the path I have followed myself. I bought my Yggy A1 used.  I have since sent it back to Schiit Audio twice, once for the USB 5 upgrade, and the the time, subsequently, for the Analog 2 upgrade.  Each time it went back, Schiit Audio voluntarily replaced other parts of the Yggy, without my asking, either as part of regular servicing, or to bring it up to date and make it more future proof, following their own progressive upgrade policy. I guess they deemed such upgrades worth it given that I became like an original buyer in my own right, with my own warranty in my name, as soon as I sent my unit back for the USB5 upgrade.  I got another bump in the upgrade cycle when I sent the unit back for the Analog 2, so I consider a Yggy in any of its incarnations to be a sweet deal indeed, whenever, and wherever you get it.

With all that said, however, the best part of it all is how the Yggy 2 sounds, and how well it pairs with the Violectric V281, to my ears. In fact, all I have said about upgradability and switchable warranties would amount to nought in my estimation, were it not for the heavenly and ethereal sound of the Yggy, especially the A2 version, as it combines with the V281, which is currently my main "reference-grade" headphone amplifier, and also doubles as a pre-amp, positioned in the interface between the Yggy A2 and my main 2-channel-stereo/HT speaker system.

I also currently use a metrum onyx/metrum ambre (roon-endpoint) combo paired with a Cavalli-Monoprice Liquid Platinum as a near-field HP listening system, which is no slouch at all, although I consider the product of the Yggy A2/V281 combo to be slightly sonically superior at times, because, for some reason, that combo can scale up some of the more demanding HPs I use, such as the LCD-4 to heights of audio delight that I did not even expect were possible.  Mind you the LCD-4 is also excellent on the Metrum Onyx/Liquid Platinum combo, and until you do a side-by-side with the Yggy A2/V281 rig, it will not be obvious to you that the Onyx/Liquid Platinum has any limitations.  Still, I have never paired the Onyx with the V281 to find out how the sound will shake out, so I am not sure how it compares directly with the Yggy A2, or  what is responsible for the "limitations" in relative scaling power that I occasionally hear when the Onyx is paired with the Liquid Platinum.  The sound of Liquid Platinum also changes depending on the tubes one is using on them, and this also introduces another set of variables one has to take into account in any comparisons...  Still, I can say with confidence that both the Yggy A2 and Metrum Onyx are world-class performers in the category of DACs to my ears, and that I could live with both as my endgame choices, even though if someone were to force me at gunpoint to choose only one of them "or else," I'll probably give the edge to the Yggy A2, because of what I perceive currently to be its slight technical superiority over the Onyx, although parting with the Onyx would be quite emotionally difficult too. To be fair, I still have to repeat that I have never used the the Onyx with my Violectric V281, and hence, never played it through my speaker system, which would finally show me all it is capable of, and definitely confirm how it stacks up against the Yggy A2.   I have really not been in any hurry to find out, because I am quite content with how the Yggy and Onyx are performing right now in the places they're deployed, and that is what counts to me now.  And that is the state of play, as regards the Yggy A2 and the Onyx, at the moment.


----------



## sahmen

lithiumnk said:


> Artificially crisp/extended treble response on OS DACs gives a false sense of airiness and expansion of Soundstage..
> 
> YMMV



Hmm... Interesting... That sounds like the difference I hear sometimes between my Onyx rig/LP rig and the Yggy A2/V-281 rig.  A wider and deeper soundstage, more airiness and more extension, and maybe detail at both ends of the spectrum, although I have never had any reason to think that the Onyx is rolling off any of the treble or its details.

I still have to combine the Onyx with the V281 in order to find out how that would comparatively work out though.


----------



## NDonchev

sahmen said:


> One conspicuous absence on your list is the Schiit Yggy A2, especially since you have the Gungnir Multibit on your list... May I know if there is any special reason for that?   Yes, price-wise one might find the Yggy A2 to be relatively expensive, but its price is roughly within the range of that of the Metrum Onyx, so I wonder (The Yggy A2 maybe a little more expensive than the Onyx, but it is much closer to the price of the Onyx than the Gungnir, which is why I find the question about the absence of the Yggy2 to be pertinent). Plus if you are willing to try the used market, you could find extremely great deals on the Yggy v1, for example.  If I did not already have my Yggy A2, I would consider getting a Yggy v1 at a reasonable price on the used market, and sending it in to Schiit Audio for the Analog 2 upgrade, which will get you a brand spanking new 3-year warranty on your A2, no questions asked...  It is actually the path I have followed myself. I bought my Yggy A1 used.  I have since sent it back to Schiit Audio twice, once for the USB 5 upgrade, and the the time, subsequently, for the Analog 2 upgrade.  Each time it went back, Schiit Audio voluntarily replaced other parts of the Yggy, without my asking, either as part of regular servicing, or to bring it up to date and make it more future proof, following their own progressive upgrade policy. I guess they deemed such upgrades worth it given that I became like an original buyer in my own right, with my own warranty in my name, as soon as I sent my unit back for the USB5 upgrade.  I got another bump in the upgrade cycle when I sent the unit back for the Analog 2, so I consider a Yggy in any of its incarnations to be a sweet deal indeed, whenever, and wherever you get it.
> 
> With all that said, however, the best part of it all is how the Yggy 2 sounds, and how well it pairs with the Violectric V281, to my ears. In fact, all I have said about upgradability and switchable warranties would amount to nought in my estimation, were it not for the heavenly and ethereal sound of the Yggy, especially the A2 version, as it combines with the V281, which is currently my main "reference-grade" headphone amplifier, and also doubles as a pre-amp, positioned in the interface between the Yggy A2 and my main 2-channel-stereo/HT speaker system.
> 
> I also currently use a metrum onyx/metrum ambre (roon-endpoint) combo paired with a Cavalli-Monoprice Liquid Platinum as a near-field HP listening system, which is no slouch at all, although I consider the product of the Yggy A2/V281 combo to be slightly sonically superior at times, because, for some reason, that combo can scale up some of the more demanding HPs I use, such as the LCD-4 to heights of audio delight that I did not even expect were possible.  Mind you the LCD-4 is also excellent on the Metrum Onyx/Liquid Platinum combo, and until you do a side-by-side with the Yggy A2/V281 rig, it will not be obvious to you that the Onyx/Liquid Platinum has any limitations.  Still, I have never paired the Onyx with the V281 to find out how the sound will shake out, so I am not sure how it compares directly with the Yggy A2, or  what is responsible for the "limitations" in relative scaling power that I occasionally hear when the Onyx is paired with the Liquid Platinum.  The sound of Liquid Platinum also changes depending on the tubes one is using on them, and this also introduces another set of variables one has to take into account in any comparisons...  Still, I can say with confidence that both the Yggy A2 and Metrum Onyx are world-class performers in the category of DACs to my ears, and that I could live with both as my endgame choices, even though if someone were to force me at gunpoint to choose only one of them "or else," I'll probably give the edge to the Yggy A2, because of what I perceive currently to be its slight technical superiority over the Onyx, although parting with the Onyx would be quite emotionally difficult too. To be fair, I still have to repeat that I have never used the the Onyx with my Violectric V281, and hence, never played it through my speaker system, which would finally show me all it is capable of, and definitely confirm how it stacks up against the Yggy A2.   I have really not been in any hurry to find out, because I am quite content with how the Yggy and Onyx are performing right now in the places they're deployed, and that is what counts to me now.  And that is the state of play, as regards the Yggy A2 and the Onyx, at the moment.


Yes, I have come across Yggy many times in my search and it showed a few times. The reasons for omitting the Yggy from the list are several:

*1.* The main one - sound. I saw several people say they like the Gymby better and that the Yggy can sound dry, harsh and too analytical and lean and that Gymby is warmer and fuller sounding compared to the Yggy. Given that I use the HD800S which are relatively analytical already, I'm not sure if the combination with the Yggy will be good. You say you use the LCD-4, which to my knowledge are warmer and fuller sounding headphones then the HD800S. Maybe that's part of the reason you liked the Yggy a bit more? You say that it sounds "heavenly and ethereal"... well, I would like that, but it seems like an opposite to dry, lean and analytical. Does it sound lean to you? Nevertheless, I'm happy to hear that Yggy and v281 are a good match. Also, it's nice to hear opinion of someone that has both DACs in his stack.

*2. *The time needed for the Yggy to warm up. I have heard it takes at least few days always on for the Yggy to reach it's potential. That's not a big problem, but is inconvenient. Additionally, the big form factor.

*3. *Bad measurement results at audiosciencereview. I know many people say this is not a good indication of how a DAC sounds, but given that I haven't auditioned the DACs, that bothers me a bit.

I guess you are right that the Yggy and the Onyx are both exceptional DACs and I will probably will be vary happy with either of them. Basically, I got the impression that the Onyx has fuller, more textured and realistic sound with accurate timbre and that the Yggy is leaner and analytical compared to both the Onyx and Gumby. Also, that Yggy has smaller soundstage then Gumby.

As for the used market, problem is I'm a bit impatient to finish my stack with a matching DAC and probably finding Yggy used in Europe will take a lot of time. So, if I'm buying it will probably be a new unit. I don't know if you read the previous posts, but currently I'm using Fiio X3 II DAP as a DAC. Which a lot of people say is not the optimal DAC for the V281/HD800S combo.


----------



## sahmen (Apr 6, 2019)

NDonchev said:


> Yes, I have come across Yggy many times in my search and it showed a few times. The reasons for omitting the Yggy from the list are several:
> 
> *1.* The main one - sound. I saw several people say they like the Gymby better and that the Yggy can sound dry, harsh and too analytical and lean and that Gymby is warmer and fuller sounding compared to the Yggy. Given that I use the HD800S which are relatively analytical already, I'm not sure if the combination with the Yggy will be good. You say you use the LCD-4, which to my knowledge are warmer and fuller sounding headphones then the HD800S. Maybe that's part of the reason you liked the Yggy a bit more? You say that it sounds "heavenly and ethereal"... well, I would like that, but it seems like an opposite to dry, lean and analytical. Does it sound lean to you? Nevertheless, I'm happy to hear that Yggy and v281 are a good match. Also, it's nice to hear opinion of someone that has both DACs in his stack.
> 
> ...




All Points are well taken...  I've just two more rejoinders:

1.  Regarding the alleged "dryness" of the sound of the Yggy, I couldn't disagree more (and ditto "lean", "analytical," or "harsh," actually double ditto for "harsh", that is if it is possible to disagree twice, or exponentially) although I have never heard nor owned the gumby.  Also the A2 upgrade has very much revolutionized the sound of the original Yggy v1, to the point where the improvements have to be heard to be believed, after it has warmed up enough to reach the stage of its optimal performance level.  And yes, it takes a while (maybe days, maybe a couple of weeks, depending...) to get to its peak of performance, but since you can leave it on forever without turning it off, you only need to live through that process once, unless you voluntarily opt to repeat it, but that is really not necessary, under normal circumstances.  Besides, it is not as if a newly minted Yggy A2 sounds remotely "bad" fresh out of the gate.  It just gets better with time, and the evolution itself is a thing of beauty to behold.  With all that said, there is the crucial issue of individual preferences, and the usual caveat of YMMV.  Still, what I will say to that is this :  Audition the units before buying, so that you can be sure that what you end up buying is really what you personally prefer over the others.  Personally, if I was ever misled by reviews into buying, say a bimby or gumby, and found out later that the Yggy A2 is what I really prefer, it wouldn't sit well with me at all... But then again, YMMV.

2. Bad measurements at Audiosciencereview.  I really wish I did not need to comment on these since, I am completely indifferent to them, and wouldn't want to grant them more publicity by even talking about them.  However, what I have mostly heard about them smacks of a lack of integrity, and that alone would be sufficient to deter me from paying them any serious attention.  However, the even better reason for ignoring them lies in allowing my own ears to be my guide.  That is really where the buck stops, and in the end, that is what counts most, in my view.  The end product in sonic performance will always trump measurements for me, regardless of where the measurements are coming from. If measurements had any meaningful relationship with how the end product sounds then the schiit magni would be the best DAC in the schiit line-up, because word on the street (according to rumors I have heard) is that the magni measures the best of them all... So go figure! (Mind you, I haven't actually confirmed the veracity of these claims about the Mimby or magni myself, but I really don't need to because they will be inconsequential to me, either way)

That's all I have got to say for now, except that, once again, YMMV.


----------



## lithiumnk

NDonchev said:


> So, do you feel like making a sacrifice with soundstage and airiness? Is it like you miss the bigger soundstage and does it detract from the enjoyment in your case? Others have described the soundstage as enveloping.
> 
> Actually, the dealer is Metrum Acoustics' online shop as I'm in Europe and they are Dutch company. I may ask them if they have showcase units, that's a good idea. Also, they accept returns, but with 10% fee.


The soundstage on my adx5000 is not as wide as hd800/800s but its enough for my taste. Airiness is a different matter. Sound can be airy in a small stage as well.I personally feel if instruments are too wide then the texture/imaging takes a hit which is not acceptable. I thoroughly enjoy my hps with v281 & pavane. V281 pairs well with almost every hp/iem in the market. That's why its called a legend.

You can try for 30 days and still return back the unit without any charge. One of the best thing about Metrum is that if you want to upgrade to pavane/adagio form onyx/jade they will charge some exchange fee depending upon various factors (not too much). That's really nice.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

lithiumnk said:


> One of the best thing about Metrum is that if you want to upgrade to pavane/adagio form onyx/jade they will charge some exchange fee depending upon various factors (not too much). That's really nice.



That's great and I wish more high end audio shops did the same. Sort of like Google's and Apple's phone buyback program.


----------



## hifimckinney

Those who use V281 as preamplifier, what price range of preamplifiers have you compared it with and what all cases you found V281 to be better and the cases where it could not match up to?


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> Hmm... Interesting... That sounds like the difference I hear sometimes between my Onyx rig/LP rig and the Yggy A2/V-281 rig.  A wider and deeper soundstage, more airiness and more extension, and maybe detail at both ends of the spectrum, although I have never had any reason to think that the Onyx is rolling off any of the treble or its details.
> 
> I still have to combine the Onyx with the V281 in order to find out how that would comparatively work out though.



I'd be very interested in your impressions of the Onyx/V281 combination--because that's what I would use an Onyx for if I got one. 

The V281 is my main preamp/headphone amp (I have others, but it's the very best).


----------



## sahmen

Pharmaboy said:


> I'd be very interested in your impressions of the Onyx/V281 combination--because that's what I would use an Onyx for if I got one.
> 
> The V281 is my main preamp/headphone amp (I have others, but it's the very best).



Cool. Will let you know when I've had the chance to swap things around for an Onyx + V281 audition.  Oh, and i find the preamp stage of the V281 to be superb in its sonic output too.


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## RobertSM (Apr 8, 2019)

My V281 just arrived.

A very quick first impressions on the V281 paired with V850.

Very clean & musical, euphoric sound signature. A slight hint of warmth but very slight. Very pleasing to the ear.

Im coming from the SPL Phonitor X w/ V850. The Phonitor to me has a more analytical signature. I've been very happy with it. But my quick 10mins with the V281 has be happier with the V281.

More time needed to really get into the V281


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> Cool. Will let you know when I've had the chance to swap things around for an Onyx + V281 audition.  Oh, and i find the preamp stage of the V281 to be superb in its sonic output too.



For real. I have 4 headphone amp/preamps, and the one I always use is the V281. It does everything--and it does everything really well.


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## RobertSM (Apr 9, 2019)

As I'm a very new owner of the V281, I did have a question for the seasoned V281 owners.

1. Am I correct in thinking the goal with the pre-gain DIP switches is to keep them turned off and to the lowest setting to keep the noise floor quiet?

I'm trying to get everything dialed in using a variety of feed sources, CD player, laptop computer and to my ears the pre-gain set at +6dB seems to do the trick. Is this setting too much?  Will I be inviting distortion into the sound?

Please note my DAC is Violectric V850.


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## Svatopluk (Apr 9, 2019)

I see no reason whatsoever to worry. I've tried +6dB with the 300 ohm HD800S, everything was fine.


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## Pharmaboy (Apr 9, 2019)

RobertSM said:


> As I'm a very new owner of the V281, I did have a question for the seasoned V281 owners.
> 
> 1. Am I correct in thinking the goal with the pre-gain DIP switches is to keep them turned off and to the lowest setting to keep the noise floor quiet?
> 
> ...



Actually, the real ideal in setting both the pre-gain & headphone amp gain settings is achieving a _system gain level_ that works best with one's downstream amp/speakers when preamp out is used; and with one's various headphones when headphone outputs are used.

By ideal, I mean that the V281's volume pot is more centered from lowest to highest setting (ie, 10AM to 1PM) vs all volume setting crammed on low end (ie, 8AM-11AM) or high end (2PM-5PM), where the pot is less linear. Note that if you have the 128 stepped pot, this is much less of a factor.

System gain is a product of the voltage output of one's DAC & the power/volume range of one's preamp/amp; it also interacts with the sensitivity and impedance of headphones when the headphone output is used (ie, more gain needed for high impedance/low sensitivity HPs). My DAC is rather "hot" (2.5v output rather than the usual 1.8-2.0v out), so I had to reduce both the pre-gain and headphone output gain on the V281 to keep the volume pot from cramming on the low end of the dial.

There are occasional posts here about higher gain settings working with headphone amps, incl. the V281. However, I can't hear any sonic benefits to higher gain on the V281 or any of my amps. Can't say I experimented rigorously w/any of them, but I did play with gain to know if there's a sonic difference, I'd have to put in a lot more time & effort to hear it....


----------



## Svatopluk

I'm using the -6dB setting with both HD800S and  the 80ohm Utopia. The Utopia's bass clarity definitely suffers with higher gain settings, being a characteristic of the headphones regardless of the amp they are paired with. I was quite surprised after discovering how much I enjoyed the HD800S using the lower setting.


----------



## RobertSM

Pharmaboy said:


> Actually, the real ideal in setting both the pre-gain & headphone amp gain settings is achieving a _system gain level_ that works best with one's downstream amp/speakers when preamp out is used; and with one's various headphones when headphone outputs are used.
> 
> By ideal, I mean that the V281's volume pot is more centered from lowest to highest setting (ie, 10AM to 1PM) vs all volume setting crammed on low end (ie, 8AM-11AM) or high end (2PM-5PM), where the pot is less linear. Note that if you have the 128 stepped pot, this is much less of a factor.
> 
> ...



This is exactly why I knew I should ask the question. Agreed, I should be looking for system gain and a balanced gain as a whole. Currently with a variety of headphones with different impedances and in my longer term plan, with a pair of powered/active speakers. I also ultimately have a goal of adding a phono stage into the mix. I've looked at the Violectric one. And at this point, I'm happy with the brand and indeed a fan of the neo-modern/utilitarian styling of the case work. Good chance I'll go with their model.

Alot of factors involved in system gain and whole system sound. And I've not even gotten into the differences in digital record material. Hi-res digital and whatnot...

On a side note, thank goodness my DAC V850 doesn't do DSD. That would only add another layer to try to unravel. No, I'll keep simple and contrarian and be very happy with my many PCM files and web streaming.



Svatopluk said:


> I'm using the -6dB setting with both HD800S and  the 80ohm Utopia. The Utopia's bass clarity definitely suffers with higher gain settings, being a characteristic of the headphones regardless of the amp they are paired with. I was quite surprised after discovering how much I enjoyed the HD800S using the lower setting.



A good point and just a reminder to me not to rush the process of listening closely to how my headphones perform as I experiment with pre-gain and headphone gain settings. 

I'm now realizing that this isn't something that can be rushed and may indeed change as my equipment changes over time. Ultimately, it's nice to have the flexibility of being able to make tweaks to our individual systems. A micro real-time sound engineering experience.


----------



## hifimckinney

Is it normal to hear very light screechy sound when volume control is turned on V281?

Is knob so sensitive that as soon as you touch with very very light pressure, it acts up the relays inside?

Hope I am not being too paranoid. Please help.


----------



## 13713

hifimckinney said:


> Is it normal to hear very light screechy sound when volume control is turned on V281?
> 
> Is knob so sensitive that as soon as you touch with very very light pressure, it acts up the relays inside?
> 
> Hope I am not being too paranoid. Please help.



Ah the infamous volume relay sound. I have been paranoid about it but was told its fine and after a while it won't bother you. It really is hard to do research on it as not many really talk about it.


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## RobertSM (Apr 11, 2019)

I've had my V281, with volume relay for 3 days now and have logged about 30 hours with it. On day one it was something that I very much noticed. Day 2 less so. And I had today a day long listening session and have to say that I didnt really pay much, if any attention to it.​
More than anything, is my growing love for the sound the V281 produces. Regards of genre, this thing just sounds so darn good. For example, I've recently found this Irish public radio station, out of Limerick, Ireland. The station is called RTE Lyric FM. They web stream. There is a DJ named Bernard Clake, he has a 3 hour show called 'The Blue of the Night', every night. Anyway, this DJ plays the most diverse and well curated, mix of eclectic good music that I've heard in a very long time. I've heard a few songs I know. But by in large, he plays great music that I would never seek out myself. For example, today he played Traditional African Pygmy, melodic chanting, that was inspired by some of colonizing Western countries that have historically had a hand in this area of Africa. This is newly recorded and freshly produced music. And, I sat there listening and just had my mind wide opened to these sounds that I have never heard. And I thought to myself, damn, this amp can do it all! Because these vocals, these chants had so much power and emotion to them. I mean, this was just a great moment for me. And I was just gobsmacked and happy that this V281 was allowing this 4 min track to transport me.

So, I digress....yeah the volume relay thing. I guess it's there. But I dont really pay much attention to it.


----------



## OctavianH

Anyone tried it (or the V220) with Beyerdynamic T1.2 (600 Ohm)? I wonder if it can properly amplify such high impedance models.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I did, both T5p 2nd gen and T1.2 2nd gen on both SE and balanced out. No reason to worry at all as the V281 laughs in their face. 

The T1 actually spikes up to 1400 Ohms.


----------



## OctavianH

Fegefeuer said:


> I did, both T5p 2nd gen and T1.2 2nd gen on both SE and balanced out. No reason to worry at all as the V281 laughs in their face.
> 
> The T1 actually spikes up to 1400 Ohms.



Thanks! I just checked V220 vs V281 on the violectric.de and it seems there is a big difference:

V281 - 2700 mW (600 Ohm) _ 5600 dBu (100 Ohm) _ 4200 mW (50 Ohm) _ 2800 mW (32 Ohm) _ 1500 mW (16 Ohm)

V220 - 670 mW (600 Ohm) _ 3050 dBu (100 Ohm) _ 2700 mW (50 Ohm) _ 2800 mW (32 Ohm) _ 1500 mW (16 Ohm)

So for T1.2 V281 its a must... or at least much better.


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## Fegefeuer

At 300mw the max SPL@500hz is 126db. Go beyond that and the headphone is going to explode.

As you can see the V220 has enough headroom left. It's just that the V281 is the better amp, especially when you are using the balanced output which I consider mandatory.


----------



## OctavianH

Fegefeuer said:


> At 300mw the max SPL@500hz is 126db. Go beyond that and the headphone is going to explode.
> 
> As you can see the V220 has enough headroom left. It's just that the V281 is the better amp, especially when you are using the balanced output which I consider mandatory.



I agree with that but I would say that a balanced AMP without a balanced DAC does not provide such a big improvement. At the moment I use Chord Qutest which is not balanced.


----------



## Ultrainferno

The question now is: Sell the V281 and keep the Niimbus, or not... Soon!


----------



## cj3209

I noticed that when I use the balance knob and play with it, the right side is slightly louder than the left side.  It's this way with two of my headphones.  Not really a biggie though.


----------



## fdg

... it maybe your source, it may be your headphones, it maybe your cables, it maybe your ears.
But chances are very low that it is the amp.
Anyway, that is the reason for the balance control.


----------



## cj3209

fdg said:


> ... it maybe your source, it may be your headphones, it maybe your cables, it maybe your ears.
> But chances are very low that it is the amp.
> Anyway, that is the reason for the balance control.


Lol...getting old sucks...but thx for your response.  It may be my balanced cable I'm using with my SP1k.

Joon


----------



## Anaz (Apr 12, 2019)

RobertSM said:


> My V281 just arrived.
> 
> A very quick first impressions on the V281 paired with V850.
> 
> ...



After you've had time with the V281, please post a comparison of it vs. the Phonitor X if you wouldn't mind.  I sometimes listen to old Bebop Jazz recordings and often the L-R separation is too much and I need crossfeed for the sound - I'm currently using an ADI-2 DAC to achieve this and thought the Phonitor X might be suitable which would allow me to change DACs in the future. (I have a Corda Jazz-ff amp which has crossfeed but it doesn't compare to the V281 of course).


----------



## 13713

Ultrainferno said:


> The question now is: Sell the V281 and keep the Niimbus, or not... Soon!



I see the Nimbus and at first glance I just want to pull the card out and order it. Then I realize that at the end of the day what I have right now headphone stack wise is way overkill and I just cannot justify the Nimbus. I really would love to read your take on the amp as it seems wicked.

The issue with this hobby is there are too many avenues of how to get to the music. Headphones, speakers... it all add's up to living in a van down by the river and stealing someones power.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Anaz said:


> After you've had time with the V281, please post a comparison of it vs. the Phonitor X if you wouldn't mind.  I sometimes listen to old Bebop Jazz recordings and often the L-R separation is too much and I need crossfeed for the sound - I'm currently using an ADI-2 DAC to achieve this and thought the Phonitor X might be suitable which would allow me to change DACs in the future. (I have a Corda Jazz-ff amp which has crossfeed but it doesn't compare to the V281 of course).


I’ve previously owned the Phonitor 2 (which is the predecessor to the Phonitor X), and the ADI-2 dac, and I can say that the Phonitor had far superior crossfeed implementation. The Phonitor does crossfeed in the analog realm while the ADI-2 does it digitally. Not sure if that’s why the former does it better but it was great with old stereo recordings with total channel separation like you’re talking about.  That said, I found the V281 to be a better amp than the Phonitor 2. More dynamic and less relaxed than the Phonitor, better bass, better imaging, more power... Maybe use the V281 as a pre-amp for the Phonitor X and see if you can get the best of both worlds?


----------



## Relaxasaurus (Apr 12, 2019)

13713 said:


> Headphones, speakers... it all add's up to living in a van down by the river and stealing someones power.



Don't talk about Tyll like that



> Maybe use the V281 as a pre-amp for the Phonitor X and see if you can get the best of both worlds?



One can dream. I think the Phonitor is a gorgeous piece of kit, with a better form factor for placing on a desk.


----------



## 13713

Relaxasaurus said:


> Don't talk about Tyll like that



This made me start to laugh and then I got really sad. I hope he is having the time of his life right now.


----------



## Anaz

Malcolm Riverside said:


> I’ve previously owned the Phonitor 2 (which is the predecessor to the Phonitor X), and the ADI-2 dac, and I can say that the Phonitor had far superior crossfeed implementation. The Phonitor does crossfeed in the analog realm while the ADI-2 does it digitally. Not sure if that’s why the former does it better but it was great with old stereo recordings with total channel separation like you’re talking about.  That said, I found the V281 to be a better amp than the Phonitor 2. More dynamic and less relaxed than the Phonitor, better bass, better imaging, more power... Maybe use the V281 as a pre-amp for the Phonitor X and see if you can get the best of both worlds?



Thank you for the comparison. It seems the Phonitor would be downgrade from the V281 then.


----------



## PleasantSounds

cj3209 said:


> I noticed that when I use the balance knob and play with it, the right side is slightly louder than the left side.  It's this way with two of my headphones.  Not really a biggie though.


That's actually by design: only one channel is connected through the balance pot. Don't look for a fault in your equipment.


----------



## PleasantSounds

OctavianH said:


> I agree with that but I would say that a balanced AMP without a balanced DAC does not provide such a big improvement. At the moment I use Chord Qutest which is not balanced.


No need to upgrade the DAC if all that bothers you is the single ended connection. In the V281 the preamp section is single ended, only the power stages are balanced. Signal from the balanced input is first converted to SE anyway.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

PleasantSounds said:


> Signal from the balanced input is first converted to SE anyway.


I didn't know that. So the V281/280 are not fully balanced topologies?


----------



## donato

Relaxasaurus said:


> I didn't know that. So the V281/280 are not fully balanced topologies?



It's linked on the first page of this thread 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-249#post-14378632


----------



## Relaxasaurus

donato said:


> It's linked on the first page of this thread
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-249#post-14378632


Thank you, I've been clicking last page :<

I've also been looking at getting a Qutest. Currently have an RME ADI-2 and an SMSL SU-8 I'm not really satisfied with either. Was thinking of going Chord but the Q is unbalanced and thought it would be a downside in my chain. Good to hear this news.


----------



## cj3209

I've been looking at the Metrum Acoustics DACs as an alternative to Chord.  I had both Mojo and Hugo 2 and they didn't really do it for me; I preferred the AK SP1000.


----------



## PleasantSounds

cj3209 said:


> I've been looking at the Metrum Acoustics DACs as an alternative to Chord.  I had both Mojo and Hugo 2 and they didn't really do it for me; I preferred the AK SP1000.


If my experience counts, you're on the right track. I have the Metrum Menuet and to me it's a fantastic match for the V281. I have tried a couple of Chord models as well as the Yggy and ended up preferring the Menuet. The latest Metrum generation may be a further improvement over that, but I haven't tried any of them and do not intend to upgrade any time soon.


----------



## stemiki

Me too V281 combined with Metrum Menuet updated with dac two. Great quality. Soon I add the Lumin U1 mini streamer.


----------



## lithiumnk

V281 balanced with Metrum pavane is just breathtaking...add dynamic hp like utopia or adx5000 ... that's TOTL sound...


----------



## Fegefeuer

@Pharmaboy

As far as I remember you have listened to the JAR 650 a lot and know it very well by now. I've managed to get one to listen to for a while and while I find it to be a slightly better defined and refined and overall superior, the bass sticks out more compared to the regular HD 650. 
I don't think it's the elevation itself (I am very sure there's more bass with the JAR 650) or alone that's sticking out to me but the combination of more bass and the technical downside of the HD650 itself as I'm simply used to much better controlled bass over the years. 

Did you find yourself to be experiencing the same?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Fegefeuer said:


> @Pharmaboy
> 
> As far as I remember you have listened to the JAR 650 a lot and know it very well by now. I've managed to get one to listen to for a while and while I find it to be a slightly better defined and refined and overall superior, the bass sticks out more compared to the regular HD 650.
> I don't think it's the elevation itself (I am very sure there's more bass with the JAR 650) or alone that's sticking out to me but the combination of more bass and the technical downside of the HD650 itself as I'm simply used to much better controlled bass over the years.
> ...



No, that's not the way I heard it when I compared the JAR-650 to stock HD650. That was months ago and I can no longer make the comparison. But I certainly didn't (and don't) hear the J-Mod/JAR650 bass as "sticking out" or uncontrolled. If anything, it sounded more precise, controlled, and distinct than stock. 

I liked both headphones a lot, bass included. But I definitely thought the JAR-650's bass was better qualitatively.


----------



## NDonchev (Apr 21, 2019)

Hi guys! We were talking earlier about choosing a DAC for the v281. So here is an update on the situation which you may find interesting.

I went to local shop today to compare the v800 DAC against my current DAC (the Fiio X3 II DAP).

*THE SETUP*
I set the following two audio chains:
1. Fiio X3 II DAP -> RCA Cable -> v281 -> HD800S
2. Windows PC -> USB Cable -> v800 DAC -> XLR Cable -> v281 -> HD800S

I used the same audio files on a Flash drive for the Windows PC and on the Fiio DAP's SD Card.

Volume was matched by ear by adjusting it on the v800 DAC. The volume knob of the v800 ended up being at about 1-2 o'clock.

In this setup I was able to change between DACs only by changing the input on the v281 between RCA and XLR.

Most of the time I managed to sync the song timing of the two sources perfectly.

*THE RESULTS*
Absolutely identical sound from the two audio chains. There was no way I could distinguish between the two. It was to the point where I started to feel like the source switching buttons don't work. It was the same as if I was pressing some random button on some unrelated audio gear in the shop, just no difference. I tried hard to distinguish between the two DACs and I did this for more than an hour with variety of different songs from different genres and recording quality.

*FINAL THOUGHTS*
If I was there in the shop trying only the v800 without comparing it with my current DAC I was probably going to conclude it is better. And it sounds amazing by itself. The thing is the Fiio sounds just as amazing.

As a result of this now I'm more sceptical regarding DAC differences. What I can say for sure is that in my case paying about 1000 euro for the v800 is not justified. For me this means I'll have to pass on the v850 as well as it should be similar to the v800. It is very much possible that this conclusion will be the same for at least some other people too. In that case, you could save your money and do something with it that gives you more value.

I know DACs measure differently, but it seems in some cases that difference is not audiable. Also, I'm not saying all DACs sound the same. I'm curious to try higher-end DACs and also ladder NOS DACs.

I'll probably travel to another audio store to try more stuff in the coming 1-2 weeks, including the Hugo 2, Hegel HD30, iFi Audio Pro iDSD, iFi Audio Micro iDSD Black Label. Also, I'm very curious to try some tube amps like the Woo Audio WA6-SE and see if it is much more engaging and musical than the v281.

As for the v281 it seems it's true TOTL amp and the difference with other less refined amps is obvious.


----------



## S Crowther

NDonchev said:


> Hi guys! We were talking earlier about choosing a DAC for the v281. So here is an update on the situation which you may find interesting.
> 
> I went to local shop today to compare the v800 DAC against my current DAC (the Fiio X3 II DAP).
> 
> ...


Interesting.  My immediate thought was that the HD800s does not sound at its best with the V281. I have one but much prefer the HD800s through my Pro-Ject Head Box which is a hybrid amp.  I use a Denafrips Terminator as my DAC. I can tell you it makes a night and day difference compared to the Chord TT I was using before.


----------



## RobertSM (Apr 21, 2019)

NDonchev said:


> Hi guys! We were talking earlier about choosing a DAC for the v281. So here is an update on the situation which you may find interesting.
> 
> I went to local shop today to compare the v800 DAC against my current DAC (the Fiio X3 II DAP).
> 
> ...



Wondering if not having the volume of V800 fully turned up didn't allow for all the digital information to be fully expressed.

On a positive note, happy that you finally got a chance to audition the V281 and V800.


----------



## 13713

NDonchev said:


> Hi guys! We were talking earlier about choosing a DAC for the v281. So here is an update on the situation which you may find interesting.
> 
> I went to local shop today to compare the v800 DAC against my current DAC (the Fiio X3 II DAP).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the write up. Curious as to why you did not have the volume pot on the 800 all the way up? 100% out the DAC and do volume control via the amp... honestly volume should be 100,100, whatever (whatever being the amp)


----------



## hifimckinney

NDonchev said:


> Hi guys! We were talking earlier about choosing a DAC for the v281. So here is an update on the situation which you may find interesting.
> 
> I went to local shop today to compare the v800 DAC against my current DAC (the Fiio X3 II DAP).
> 
> ...


I don't know how you can but for real comparison, run v800 with AES input and volume set at max. Please read about Dante to run V800 through AES, most probably will change your perception.

If not Dante, try Schiit Eitr to use coax


----------



## NDonchev (Apr 21, 2019)

Yea, I also thought that setting the volume knob to max on the v800 might make a difference. Although, I highly doubt it that this will be a significant one.

I don't intent to try other inputs on the DAC as that would mean I have to buy some additional gear. I don't think it is justified to put even more money on signal converters when I don't hear any difference with USB. To my knowledge the USB input on the v800 is good. And if I go in that direction, I might want to buy expensive cables and even pricier signal purifiers and I don't think that is a good direction to go in this situation.

On a previous visit to the shop I could compare the v281's inner DAC with my Fiio x3 II and I also couldn't hear any difference. Although, it was with unfamiliar music and back then I thought maybe that's the reason.

The volume on the v800 wasn't on max because I wanted to volume match it with the Fiio's output. The Fiio was significantly quieter (maybe partly due to different cables used - RCA vs XLR), so I had to put the v800's volume knob at about 1-2 o'clock.


----------



## hifimckinney

NDonchev said:


> I don't intent to try other inputs on the DAC as that would mean I have to buy some additional gear. I don't think it is justified to put even more money on signal converters when I don't hear any difference with USB. To my knowledge the USB input on the v800 is good.



What I can tell is that I did not merely type whatever came to my mind; I have been through this route of USB to coax/AES. With USB, you listen to more of USB implementation and less of DAC. When you have top of the line headphone amp and headphones, spend couple of hundreds on Eitr, and feel what lower noise floor can do to your music.


----------



## NDonchev

S Crowther said:


> Interesting.  My immediate thought was that the HD800s does not sound at its best with the V281. I have one but much prefer the HD800s through my Pro-Ject Head Box which is a hybrid amp.  I use a Denafrips Terminator as my DAC. I can tell you it makes a night and day difference compared to the Chord TT I was using before.


The Pro-Ject Head Box I found on the Internet has some crappy reviews, doesn't seem to be hybrid and costs about 150 euro. Maybe I'm looking at a different unit?


----------



## NDonchev

hifimckinney said:


> What I can tell is that I did not merely type whatever came to my mind; I have been through this route of USB to coax/AES. With USB, you listen to more of USB implementation and less of DAC. When you have top of the line headphone amp and headphones, spend couple of hundreds on Eitr, and feel what lower noise floor can do to your music.


That may be true, but generally I'm a bit discouraged right now. To try the setup you suggest I have to buy the v800 and the Eitr and that seems too much of a hassle at this point.


----------



## NDonchev (Apr 22, 2019)

Here are some more thoughts on the v800 sounds the same as Fiio X3 II matter with the v281 and HD800S.

The reviews I read about the v800 are reviewing it with the USB input usually. Here is a quote from the Headfonia review, although it's for the v850, but it should be fairly similar with the v800:
"Before the V850 arrived I was constantly switching between DACs like the Chord Hugo, Resonessence Labs, ALO CDM, Stoner EGD, Chord Mojo and even DAPs like the AK240 and Fiio X7 which have excellent DAC chips. While I quite like several of those – and especially the Sabre based DACs – the V850 *plays in a different league*, both in versatility and sound quality."

Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here, but the v850 being in a "different league" from the Fiio X7 and the Fiio X7 being significantly better then the Fiio X3 II (judging from other reviews), I would expect to hear at least some improvement of the v800 over the Fiio X3 II, no matter if I use the USB input of the DAC or an alternative one.

By the way, I'm not alone in this conclusion. Here is a quote from the comment secion of the same v850 review on Headfonia:
"Mojo->V281 and V850/V281 have very minimal sound differences which is difficult to identify (even when there was are absolutely no interferences and very concentrated listening)"

And on the "Chord Qutest _(Z Reviews)_" video from Z-reviews on Youtube he makes basically the same conclusion at about 17:42.

Again, I'm not saying that all DACs sound the same and for all people. But I think making a side by side AB (ideally blind) testings should be encouraged.


----------



## Arniesb

why violectric dac? because its same company as your amp from?


NDonchev said:


> Here are some more thoughts on the v800 sounds the same as Fiio X3 II matter with the v281 and HD800S.
> Dont be fanboy on any company. Doesnt matter if its Violectric dac its aint gonna sound as good as chord dacs for example.
> 
> The reviews I read about the v800 are reviewing it with the USB input usually. Here is a quote from the Headfonia review, although it's for the v850, but it should be fairly similar with the v800:
> ...


----------



## NDonchev

Arniesb said:


> why violectric dac? because its same company as your amp from?


Mainly because that is the one that my local store have, so I could audition it. Also, it has good reviews overall.


----------



## Arniesb

NDonchev said:


> Mainly because that is the one that my local store have, so I could audition it. Also, it has good reviews overall.


Didnt heard much recommendations from friends or from reviews besides Violectric fanboys.


----------



## NDonchev (Apr 22, 2019)

Arniesb said:


> Didnt heard much recommendations from friends or from reviews besides Violectric fanboys.


What would you suggest instead? Also, do you have similar impressions about the v281?


----------



## S Crowther

NDonchev said:


> The Pro-Ject Head Box I found on the Internet has some crappy reviews, doesn't seem to be hybrid and costs about 150 euro. Maybe I'm looking at a different unit?


Pro-Ject Head Box RS


----------



## S Crowther

S Crowther said:


> Pro-Ject Head Box RS





S Crowther said:


> Pro-Ject Head Box RS


Pro-ject Headbox RS is about £700. Here is a link:
https://www.analogueseduction.net/headphone-amplifiers/pro-ject-head-box-rs-headphone-amplifier.html


----------



## Relaxasaurus

NDonchev said:


> Here are some more thoughts on the v800 sounds the same as Fiio X3 II matter with the v281 and HD800S.
> 
> The reviews I read about the v800 are reviewing it with the USB input usually. Here is a quote from the Headfonia review, although it's for the v850, but it should be fairly similar with the v800:
> "Before the V850 arrived I was constantly switching between DACs like the Chord Hugo, Resonessence Labs, ALO CDM, Stoner EGD, Chord Mojo and even DAPs like the AK240 and Fiio X7 which have excellent DAC chips. While I quite like several of those – and especially the Sabre based DACs – the V850 *plays in a different league*, both in versatility and sound quality."
> ...


All this goes to show how much stock I put into online reviews vs my own ears. Personally, as much as I like my RME ADI-2 I miss elements of my old Sabre-based budget dac. I really liked what I heard from the Mojo and want to try the Qutest but then I would need to go back to software EQ'ing again which I'm not the biggest fan of.

And while on the topic I'm so curious to try a NOS dac as I've yet to hear one aside from YouTube comparison videos.


----------



## BobG55

After a couple of months of research, reading reviews and perusing this thread, I purchased a V281 yesterday from a Canadian distributor located in Vernon, British Columbia.  It's a large sum to pay, especially in Canadian currency but I'm pretty sure I've made a good move.  One of the advantages of buying from this distributor is avoiding the large sum charged by Canada Customs had I bought it from the US.  

I already own the V100 and love it's sound signature though I know that the V281's sound signature is different.  During my journey I've come to prefer SS amps over tube ones.  Can't really explain why save to say, I simply prefer the sound of an SS amp.  Looking forward to sharing my views on this thread.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Make sure to get balanced cables (or make them yourself if you're able to) to fully utilize the V281. Is the headphone inventory in your profile up to date? You will love the HE-500 out of it. The classic line really loves power and rewards you for it.


----------



## BobG55 (Apr 25, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> Make sure to get balanced cables (or make them yourself if you're able to) to fully utilize the V281. Is the headphone inventory in your profile up to date? You will love the HE-500 out of it. The classic line really loves power and rewards you for it.



Thanks Fegefeure.  Yes the HP inventory in my profile is up to date.  I have a friend who's a retired audio repairman.  He'll alter the cables with XLR connectors for me and keep the SE at the end of the cable.  I had it done in the past by him with other HPs when I owned XLR amps back then.


----------



## Pharmaboy

NDonchev said:


> Hi guys! We were talking earlier about choosing a DAC for the v281. So here is an update on the situation which you may find interesting.
> 
> I went to local shop today to compare the v800 DAC against my current DAC (the Fiio X3 II DAP).
> 
> ...



Interesting comments. I never compared DACs w/the matching & precision you describe. Think my head might explode if I tried to "play scientist" like that. 

All I can say is that I've had 2 occasions where I dropped in a new DAC (into a long-term/stable system w/o other stuff changing at same time) and really noticed a difference:

After several delta-sigma DACs that I really didn't care for (glassy/glarey sound), I got the humble & inexpensive Peachtree Audio DAC iTx and installed it. Went through my whole 100+ hr burn-in routine, but w/this DAC, it immediately sounded better than what I'd heard and stayed that way. Less glare & "digititis."
Finally became curious about Audio GD multibit & NOS DACs, so purchased the NOS 19 several years ago. Its sound fluctuated wildly for a good 400 hrs (yes, what others said was true--it really did that long to burn in). And again, the sound was significantly different, mostly in subtle ways, but in every case, better ways.
A little later I got the Audio GD DAC-19 and burned that in (another 400 hrs!). I think I hear differences between that and the NOS 19, but they're very subtle, harder to detect. 

These DACs all had slightly different output voltages, so I suppose my perceptions could be due to improper volume matching. But the way I do things here is mostly low volume classical during the day, and I tend to find the same volume regardless of any new component, just by comfort level. Similarly, I have a kind of target volume for the moderate loudness listening I do, and I tend to get right there no matter what gear is installed. All to say I discount the volume factor to some degre--though if I were doing fast sequence comps w/switching I would take volume dead seriously.


----------



## Pharmaboy

NDonchev said:


> Yea, I also thought that setting the volume knob to max on the v800 might make a difference. Although, I highly doubt it that this will be a significant one.
> 
> I don't intent to try other inputs on the DAC as that would mean I have to buy some additional gear. I don't think it is justified to put even more money on signal converters when I don't hear any difference with USB. To my knowledge the USB input on the v800 is good. And if I go in that direction, I might want to buy expensive cables and even pricier signal purifiers and I don't think that is a good direction to go in this situation.
> 
> ...



Have to tell you, I've used S/PDIF converters for years because without exception, every DAC I've had sounded better via coax out of the Musical Fidelity V-Link 192/24 (and before it, the V-Link 92/24). I also clearly heard better sound going from a solid Billy Jeans coax cable (1.5M) to a far more expensive silver cable (Oyaide R-510, 1.3M). 

This whole digital experience is filled with surprises.


----------



## buzzlulu

Can the 281 be fed single ended and then internally convert to balanced?


----------



## donato

buzzlulu said:


> Can the 281 be fed single ended and then internally convert to balanced?



Yes.  In fact the internal circuitry is unbalanced until you get to the output amps.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-249#post-14378632


----------



## buzzlulu

Thank you for that informative link.  I may have to revisit this amplifier.  I last heard it two years ago at CanJam NY.  I have a GSX Mini on preorder because it will allow me to connect to my two channel system and user my unbalanced sources

Who is carrying the 281 these days with a return policy?  I know Arthur is no longer the distributor


----------



## cj3209

buzzlulu said:


> ... I know Arthur is no longer the distributor


Where did you hear this?  Is Arthur retiring?


----------



## RobertSM

I placed an order with Violectric USA last week. Very easy to deal with and quick shipping. They are certainly conducting business.


----------



## buzzlulu

cj3209 said:


> Where did you hear this?  Is Arthur retiring?



Old news.  Jason at The Source AV is the new distributor for Violectric and Nimbus since Dec/January.  Arthur is now just a dealer rather than distributor.


----------



## chungjun

Is it just me or, this is worth commemorating, V281 at Page 281 on HeadFi...


----------



## cj3209

Just had a great session with the V281 late last night:  phenomenal sound:  SP1000cu to Ariolus BA300 tube amp to V281 (XLR in) using my Audeze i4s via balanced headphone out.


----------



## Pharmaboy

buzzlulu said:


> Thank you for that informative link.  I may have to revisit this amplifier.  I last heard it two years ago at CanJam NY.  I have a GSX Mini on preorder because it will allow me to connect to my two channel system and user my unbalanced sources
> 
> Who is carrying the 281 these days with a return policy?  I know Arthur is no longer the distributor



What? Where did you hear that?


----------



## buzzlulu

Pharmaboy said:


> What? Where did you hear that?



From Arthur and from TSAV


----------



## Fegefeuer

So, who's going to be at the Munich's High End Show this week?


----------



## RobertSM

Fegefeuer said:


> So, who's going to be at the Munich's High End Show this week?



No, I'm not able to make it. Will you be attending? Any others?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yes, I'll be there. There won't be anything new for the Violectric line I think. This year should be all about Niimbus. The US4 amps will get their corresponding DACs.

Of course all the Vio stuff will be there to listen to as well.


----------



## RobertSM

Fegefeuer said:


> Yes, I'll be there. There won't be anything new for the Violectric line I think. This year should be all about Niimbus. The US4 amps will get their corresponding DACs.
> 
> Of course all the Vio stuff will be there to listen to as well.



Keep us updated. Excited to hear about the new Niimbis DACs. Maybe there will have to be a new thread created too?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Once I have enough info and a few pictures I'll do it. There is a good reason to be excited as the top DAC does a few really nice things.


----------



## phonomat

It's high time for a new Violectric DAC. I need something with the footprint of my V281, but the 850 lacks that certain "freshness" by now. Unfortunately (for me), the focus seems to lie on Niimbus atm.
I used to go to the show every year, but won't be able to make it this time around. Oh well.


----------



## cj3209

I would love a modular DAC, ie, same chassis as V850 but ability to swap out the DAC component.  Prob won't be as profitable but it would sure be great for us folks that like to have the latest DAC tech.


----------



## phonomat

Well, I'm all for it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The Violectric line will get updates as well. Just not this year.


----------



## cj3209

cj3209 said:


> I would love a modular DAC, ie, same chassis as V850 but ability to swap out the DAC component.  Prob won't be as profitable but it would sure be great for us folks that like to have the latest DAC tech.


Or even allowing us to change the DAC component at will so we can get specific types of sound that we want based on headphones or speakers.

If I was 20 years younger I'd start this project...but I digress...


----------



## NDonchev (May 11, 2019)

Hi again. We discussed DACs for the v281 earlier. I'm the guy that couldn't detect a difference between Fiio X3 II DAP as a DAC and a Violectric v800. Some of you suggested RME ADI-2 or Chord Qutest for the v281.

My exploration of DACs for the v281 got weirder and even more controversial. I had the opportunity to travel to a another shop recently hoping to hear some tube amps and super high-end DACs - mainly DAC Hegel HD30. That didn't happen as they didn't have the unit in stock. I also brought my v281 with me to test with and they had the HD800S which are the headphones I have at home. I tried some other headphones and the Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies.

Then I hooked the HD800S directly into a Chord Hugo 2 expecting nothing very different. And... Wow! No more then 5-10 seconds were needed to start thinking that I want that sound and I'm probably willing to sell the v281 and get this very small Hugo 2 amp + DAC device instead. And then I hooked the Hugo 2 to the v281 and things got even better! The same amazing sound, but even more clear and refined and with better soundstage and authority.

So the final setup was:
Tidal on Apple PC => USB => Hugo 2 DAC => v281 Amp => Unbalanced => HD800S

Also, from time to time I would swap the RCA cables on the v281 for the following setup, for comparison:
Fiio X3 II DAP => USB => v281 Amp => Unbalanced => HD800S

Clear difference and significantly better sound from the Hugo 2. The missing ingredient to my setup was found. The different sounds had a lot more character and taste and were superbly separated and at the same time sounding connected and cohesive. It was sounding fuller, more tangible and with more texture while at the same time very detailed. The music felt alive and full of emotion. The sound from the v281 and the HD800S was transformed for the better. On a slight negative note, I felt that on Ulver's Kveldssanger album (almost exclusively acoustic guitars music), it lost some sparkle. Nevertheless, that's something I'm definitely willing to sacrifice for the joy the Hugo 2 brought to the listening experience as a whole. It was very strong experience and in two occasions I almost shed a tear just from listening to this setup. And this was with the inferior unbalanced headphone output on the v281.

So, at this point I wanted to buy the Qutest as I don't need the amp in Hugo 2 (the two use the same DAC section and should sound very similar or identical). However, they didn't have the Qutest in stock.

I read a lot on the Internet and a lot of people say the RME ADI-2 is very similar to the Qutest, but at the 2/3 of the price. So the plan was to buy both and return the one I liked less (feeling a bit guilty about that...). Ordered both and the RME is here for two days now. On the other hand my order for the Qutest from an UK store was canceled yesterday. Turns out Chord have some weird policy. If there is an official Chord distributor in your country, you can't buy Chord product from elsewhere. So they pointed me to the Bulgarian Chord distributor and refunded me.

Here is the controversial part. I hooked the RME ADI-2 and started listening - with integrated amp, then with v281 unbalanced, then with v281 balanced. So the final setup was:
Volumio Mini PC => USB => RME ADI-2 DAC => 2 x Balanced XLRs => v281 Amp => Balanced XLR => HD800S

First impression was not good, I didn't liked it much. I thought there is more detail retrieval in a bad way and brighter, leaner sound compared to the Fiio X3 II. Listened more and more and continued to be unimpressed by what I hear. I did direct AB switching between the Rme and the Fiio by changing the v281 inputs and guess what... couldn't detect any difference. I tried again on the next day with the Rme running all night and still... no difference to my ears. Also tried to listed to a full song on one of the chains and then the same song on the other... still the same.

People all over the Interned say that the Adi-2 DAC and the Quest (Hugo 2) DAC sound very similar. Some people have slight preference for the first and some for the second. Some say they can't distinguish between the two. And as you can see my experience with the Hugo 2 was very positive and transformative while I found the Adi-2 a disappointment by a big margin.

So, at this point I'm really confused. Sometimes I even start to question my experience with the Hugo 2 at that shop a week or two ago. I know sound can be subjective, but that is way out of what I would expect. So it seems the Adi-2 is going back soon and I hope to get a Qutest in it's place. Things is, I'm a bit worried if it will give me the same experience that the Hugo 2 gave me. Yea, people say they sound the same or very similar, but they do so for the Adi-2 vs the Qutest also and in my experience that can't be further from the truth.

If you have some comments or ideas it will be interesting to hear from you.


----------



## Anaz (May 11, 2019)

NDonchev said:


> Hi again. We discussed DACs for the v281 earlier. I'm the guy that couldn't detect a difference between Fiio X3 II DAP as a DAC and a Violectric v800. Some of you suggested RME ADI-2 or Chord Qutest for the v281.
> 
> My exploration of DACs for the v281 got weirder and even more controversial. I had the opportunity to travel to a another shop recently hoping to hear some tube amps and super high-end DACs - mainly DAC Hegel HD30. That didn't happen as they didn't have the unit in stock. I also brought my v281 with me to test with and they had the HD800S which are the headphones I have at home. I tried some other headphones and the Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies.
> 
> ...



...Allow time to adjust to the sound - the ADI-2 should be a definite upgrade to the Fiio. If it's worth anything I have a Chord Mojo and hear a difference between it and the ADI-2 when both are connected to the V281 (ADI-2 has more detail, but Mojo has more air). Can you hold on to the ADI-2 until you get the Qutest to compare them?

Edit: I found Mojo > rHead > Elex to be amazing for _Eric Clapton Unplugged_ so take my opinion with a grain of salt if you thought the Hugo 2 wasn't good for acoustic guitar LOL


----------



## S Crowther

NDonchev said:


> Hi again. We discussed DACs for the v281 earlier. I'm the guy that couldn't detect a difference between Fiio X3 II DAP as a DAC and a Violectric v800. Some of you suggested RME ADI-2 or Chord Qutest for the v281.
> 
> My exploration of DACs for the v281 got weirder and even more controversial. I had the opportunity to travel to a another shop recently hoping to hear some tube amps and super high-end DACs - mainly DAC Hegel HD30. That didn't happen as they didn't have the unit in stock. I also brought my v281 with me to test with and they had the HD800S which are the headphones I have at home. I tried some other headphones and the Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies.
> 
> ...


I fed my V281 for some time from a Chord TT and did not like the result at all. I replaced the TT with a Terminator. Much better imo. Now I am trying the Terminator with a much cheaper amp: Xduoo TA-20. Initial impressions are good driving HD800s and HEK v2 balanced. Preferring it to the V281 especially for the Sennheiser.


----------



## bluenight (May 11, 2019)

NDonchev said:


> Hi again. We discussed DACs for the v281 earlier. I'm the guy that couldn't detect a difference between Fiio X3 II DAP as a DAC and a Violectric v800. Some of you suggested RME ADI-2 or Chord Qutest for the v281.
> 
> My exploration of DACs for the v281 got weirder and even more controversial. I had the opportunity to travel to a another shop recently hoping to hear some tube amps and super high-end DACs - mainly DAC Hegel HD30. That didn't happen as they didn't have the unit in stock. I also brought my v281 with me to test with and they had the HD800S which are the headphones I have at home. I tried some other headphones and the Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies.
> 
> ...


Try a audio optimised streamer connected to the V281, might be better then a dac connected to a computer. If not to expensive maybe this https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/naim-nd5-xs-2.


----------



## 111MilesToGo (May 12, 2019)

NDonchev said:


> Hi again. We discussed DACs for the v281 earlier. I'm the guy that couldn't detect a difference between Fiio X3 II DAP as a DAC and a Violectric v800. Some of you suggested RME ADI-2 or Chord Qutest for the v281.
> 
> My exploration of DACs for the v281 got weirder and even more controversial. I had the opportunity to travel to a another shop recently hoping to hear some tube amps and super high-end DACs - mainly DAC Hegel HD30. That didn't happen as they didn't have the unit in stock. I also brought my v281 with me to test with and they had the HD800S which are the headphones I have at home. I tried some other headphones and the Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies.
> 
> ...


I feel like giving a little contribution from my own path.

Regarding DACs, I experienced that heart-opening and convincing ”wow“ when I auditioned the Chord Hugo 2 for the first time - quite similar to what you said, even though I was at a dealer shop and with good but to me unknown headphones as well as with my old and thoroughly known though lesser headphone. I had auditioned the Chord Mojo before - a no, and the Hugo 1 with Sennheiser HD800 and top Grado‘s - even a double-no back then.

So I thought: Just trust that moment when the Hugo 2 just clicked and the music really fell in place. Remember, getting to the heart of the music in a musical BEGINofEDIT way ENDofEDIT (I don‘t know any better word) is what it‘s all about.

From there on, the Hugo 2 always was the cornerstone, it didn‘t let me down in any way. Every step I took then did open my heart even wider: First I got the Sennheiser HD 800S (single-ended directly out of the H2), then the V281. Running the HD 800S balanced out of the V281 was my last step, providing the next ”wow“ moment.

So, if you would like to hear my suggestion: Trust your heart for the Hugo 2 ”clicking wow“ moment. Looking further all the time is an action of the brain, Not so much one of the heart.

To be honest: I had fallen for the same looking further and further some 20 years ago. All that did for me was to let my head explode, get more and more unhappy until I put this audio hobby to hibernation for some 15 years.

Hope you don‘t mind my writing, hope you might get some reassurance regarding those few magic moments when things just get right and fall into place.

Wrt Hugo 2 versus Qutest: The volume pot of the H2 might come in handy for mobility at some later point in time, even when your current habit is purely desktop at home.

EDIT: Of course, I am talking about the few real, moving and lasting ”wow“ moments, not the superficial boom-bang-gone ones.


----------



## NDonchev (May 12, 2019)

Anaz said:


> ...Allow time to adjust to the sound - the ADI-2 should be a definite upgrade to the Fiio. If it's worth anything I have a Chord Mojo and hear a difference between it and the ADI-2 when both are connected to the V281 (ADI-2 has more detail, but Mojo has more air). Can you hold on to the ADI-2 until you get the Qutest to compare them?
> 
> Edit: I found Mojo > rHead > Elex to be amazing for _Eric Clapton Unplugged_ so take my opinion with a grain of salt if you thought the Hugo 2 wasn't good for acoustic guitar LOL



I will definitely listen to the ADI-2 more. Actually, today it seems to sound better for some reason. Nevertheless, the unpleasant harsh bright treble is still there depending on the song.

I think Qutest and ADI-2 will meet at my place as the return period for the ADI-2 is 30 days (still 27 days left).


----------



## NDonchev (May 12, 2019)

111MilesToGo said:


> I feel like giving a little contribution from my own path.
> 
> Regarding DACs, I experienced that heart-opening and convincing ”wow“ when I auditioned the Chord Hugo 2 for the first time - quite similar to what you said, even though I was at a dealer shop and with good but to me unknown headphones as well as with my old and thoroughly known though lesser headphone. I had auditioned the Chord Mojo before - a no, and the Hugo 1 with Sennheiser HD800 and top Grado‘s - even a double-no back then.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for this response. It's nice to hear someone else had similar experience.

I also often feel that my head will explode and not feeling particularly happy in this journey anymore. It's starting to take too much effort and time. On some occasions I wonder if it will be better just to sell everything and forget about audio. I'm mainly stress over it instead of being happy with it.

The reassurance is helpful. There are so many different opinions and always presumably better and better gear. But I also think that trusting my own experience is the better choice. Nevertheless, I continue to read on the forums and that confuses me even more as often what I read is very different from my personal experience.

Anyway, tomorrow I will contact my local Chord distributor and see what will come of it. Ideally, I'll have the opportunity to hear the Hugo 2 / Qutest again and make a final decision.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

NDonchev said:


> Thank you very much for this response. It's nice to hear someone else had similar experience.
> 
> I also often feel that my head will explode and not feeling particularly happy in this journey anymore. It's starting to take too much effort and time. On some occasions I wonder if it will be better just to sell everything and forget about audio. I'm mainly stress over it instead of being happy with it.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your kind words. Always happy to contribute. Rest assured, I am perfectly happy with my H2, V281, HD800S Setup - and with my music!


----------



## donato

NDonchev said:


> Thank you very much for this response. It's nice to hear someone else had similar experience.
> 
> I also often feel that my head will explode and not feeling particularly happy in this journey anymore. It's starting to take too much effort and time. On some occasions I wonder if it will be better just to sell everything and forget about audio. I'm mainly stress over it instead of being happy with it.
> 
> ...



At the end of the day, there's only one opinion and set of ears you need to satisfy.  It is tricky with all of the reviews and opinions out there, but ultimately everyone's experience is valid to themselves.  The best you can do is build some experience on your own and listen to a variety of gear, understand what you value, and pick the equipment you like and can afford.  If you're lucky, you find out who's tastes align with your own and you can lend more weight to those reviews and recommendations and start to tune out others.  Be sure to enjoy the process and what you're listening to.


----------



## cj3209

This is off topic but I agree that everyone's ears are different.  I owned the H2 and preferred the sound of my AK SP1000 which is currently driving my V281; it just sounded more natural and pleasing to my ears.  Putting some tubes in-between made the sound even better, especially for voices.  But that's my opinion. 

As Paul of iBasso always says, "ENJOY THE MUSIC!"


----------



## commtrd

Not sure how Hugo2 compares to other dacs like Yggy etc but can say I am not stressing over it at all. I think that to get substantially better SQ out of a dac may entail spending A LOT more money but Yggy could prove me wrong. Very interested in V281 if it can take a single-ended input (Hugo2) and output balanced. Other option is the new GSX mini when it becomes available. 

H2 sounds so good I am not really motivated to swap it out any time soon if ever.


----------



## donato

commtrd said:


> Not sure how Hugo2 compares to other dacs like Yggy etc but can say I am not stressing over it at all. I think that to get substantially better SQ out of a dac may entail spending A LOT more money but Yggy could prove me wrong. Very interested in V281 if it can take a single-ended input (Hugo2) and output balanced. Other option is the new GSX mini when it becomes available.
> 
> H2 sounds so good I am not really motivated to swap it out any time soon if ever.



V281 can take single ended and output balanced.  Internally, the V281 is unbalanced until the balanced outputs.


----------



## bluenight (May 12, 2019)

NDonchev said:


> Thank you very much for this response. It's nice to hear someone else had similar experience.
> 
> I also often feel that my head will explode and not feeling particularly happy in this journey anymore. It's starting to take too much effort and time. On some occasions I wonder if it will be better just to sell everything and forget about audio. I'm mainly stress over it instead of being happy with it.
> 
> ...


Same here. I am tired of spending more money on audio. And i am happy now with the gear i have in my signature. Dont need better. Final touch is finding a Rca interconnect i really like because i have heard much diffrence when trying different once.

Hugo 2 is a great dac with very enjoyable sound, i have it connected to my LG oled TV for entertaining sound for movies and television. Cambridge Streamer for music playing sounds great too.


----------



## buzzlulu

Now with the change in distributorship who else besides TSAV (distributor) and Arthur is selling the Violectric line these days?


----------



## BobG55

buzzlulu said:


> Now with the change in distributorship who else besides TSAV (distributor) and Arthur is selling the Violectric line these days?



In Canada, Hifi Shop Direct in Vernon, BC.  Contact guy is named Perry.


----------



## commtrd

What is a ballpark purchase price for a new Violectric V281 lately?


----------



## BobG55

commtrd said:


> What is a ballpark purchase price for a new Violectric V281 lately?



On the Violectric USA site : $2,199.95 US.


----------



## buzzlulu

BobG55 said:


> In Canada, Hifi Shop Direct in Vernon, BC.  Contact guy is named Perry.



Thanks however my inquiry was for USA shops?


----------



## commtrd

Thanks I did not think of looking for a US distributor for the amp. Thinking it was a German product etc.


----------



## BobG55 (May 15, 2019)

It was delivered this morning.  I'm not very good at describing sound so I'll just say that it's an excellent HPA; probably the best I've owned but memory is not entirely reliable.  It sure sounds dynamic and detailed though, two HPA qualities that are essential for me.  So far I've used the HD600, HE500 & Q701/ made in Austria, all SE/ RCA.  The Q701 sounds really, really good with this amp.  I listen to CDs, no downloaded music.  My vintage Pioneer PD-91 does not have balanced outputs nor does my TEAC PD-H600.  I'm in no hurry to find/ buy either a Blu-Ray player or CD player w/ XLR outputs.  During the last year and a bit I've slowed almost to a crawl when it comes to selling my headphones and/ or amps to try something new or the FOTM.  I've pretty much owned the headphones in my collection right now for the longest period of time since I've started this hobby.  They're good enough, I'm happy w/ my set up and the excellence of the sound it provides me with.  The V281 is going to stick around for quite a while also.  I doubt I can find much better unless I needlessly spend thousands more and for what ... minute improvements.  Another important thing to remember is the quality of the recording/ production.  For example, albums by Steely Dan and Paul Simon are top notch production gems.  With a first class set up, the quality and incredible sound their music produces is truly on another level.  It's a joy to listen to and being transported by it. Ok, I digress ... in closing : very satisfied w/ this purchase, no regrets whatsoever on the money I spent here.  Enjoy your V281 and your music everyone.


----------



## rean1mator

Hugo 2 and Yggy both great dacs.  You aren't really missing much choosing one over the other IMO.  

I would say the Yggy is more neutral sounding, Hugo 2 slightly more detail with sort of glossy sheen to the sound(not necessarily in a bad way as it's subtle).

You get the added benefity of being able to take the hugo 2 with you.  I've been running both and if I had to pick one over the other it would be a coin toss.  I keep both as I want a portable dac as a second dac and to use with my headphones.



commtrd said:


> Not sure how Hugo2 compares to other dacs like Yggy etc but can say I am not stressing over it at all. I think that to get substantially better SQ out of a dac may entail spending A LOT more money but Yggy could prove me wrong. Very interested in V281 if it can take a single-ended input (Hugo2) and output balanced. Other option is the new GSX mini when it becomes available.
> 
> H2 sounds so good I am not really motivated to swap it out any time soon if ever.


----------



## Fegefeuer

BobG55 said:


> It was delivered this morning.  I'm not very good at describing sound so I'll just say that it's an excellent HPA; probably the best I've owned but memory is not entirely reliable.  It sure sounds dynamic and detailed though, two HPA qualities that are essential for me.  So far I've used the HD600, HE500 & Q701/ made in Austria, all SE/ RCA.  The Q701 sounds really, really good with this amp.  I listen to CDs, no downloaded music.  My vintage Pioneer PD-91 does not have balanced outputs nor does my TEAC PD-H600.  I'm in no hurry to find/ buy either a Blu-Ray player or CD player w/ XLR outputs.  During the last year and a bit I've slowed almost to a crawl when it comes to selling my headphones and/ or amps to try something new or the FOTM.  I've pretty much owned the headphones in my collection right now for the longest period of time since I've started this hobby.  They're good enough, I'm happy w/ my set up and the excellence of the sound it provides me with.  The V281 is going to stick around for quite a while also.  I doubt I can find much better unless I needlessly spend thousands more and for what ... minute improvements.  Another important thing to remember is the quality of the recording/ production.  For example, albums by Steely Dan and Paul Simon are top notch production gems.  With a first class set up, the quality and incredible sound their music produces is truly on another level.  It's a joy to listen to and being transported by it. Ok, I digress ... in closing : very satisfied w/ this purchase, no regrets whatsoever on the money I spent here.  Enjoy your V281 and your music everyone.



Q701 can be modded to balanced. Rob Robinette wrote a pretty well documented guide. Would lead to an even better experience. 

https://robrobinette.com/HeadphoneMods.htm


----------



## BobG55

Fegefeuer said:


> Q701 can be modded to balanced. Rob Robinette wrote a pretty well documented guide. Would lead to an even better experience.



Thanks.


----------



## MolecularMark (May 21, 2019)

After some strange overload issues, I am getting a replacement unit - Fried has been ever so helpful (as has Gerardo from PlayStereo in Italy). Can't wait to get it back up and running.

I thought I was happy with the V200...which is brilliant, but the V281 is just better in every way. Detailed, not overly analytical and very musical. Just my kind of sound...

I am not going to try and explain how it sounds but I just love it with my LCD-3's - a real end game headphone amp (also sounds fantastic as a preamp for my Naim Power Amp).

Still hankering after a pair of Focal Utopias and wondering whether I should swap my Qutest DAC for something else...maybe an RME ADI-2 PRO or even an Yggdrasil but am going to wait and enjoy what I have for now.

That said, you know how it is when you get 'upgraditis'... 

I am reading through all 283 pages of this thread on DAC pairing with the v281 but would love to hear from anyone with more DAC recommendations - especially on how the RME ADI-2 PRO or Yggdrasil sound with the V281.


----------



## Pharmaboy

MolecularMark said:


> After some strange overload issues, I am getting a replacement unit - Fried has been ever so helpful (as has Gerardo from PlayStereo in Italy). Can't wait to get it back up and running.
> 
> I thought I was happy with the V200...which is brilliant, but the V281 is just better in every way. Detailed, not overly analytical and very musical. Just my kind of sound...
> 
> ...



The V281 has been my primary headphone amp/system preamp for 2 years. It does everything well & sounds extremely good. I remain impressed by its dynamics & bass (both are epic) & "voicing" that manages to combine resolution w/slight warmth & a musical sound.

I use only multibit or NOS multibit DACs w/the V281 (Audio GD DAC-19; NOS 19); I prefer their more natural tonality and relaxed quality  vs delta-sigma digital. There may be a bigger/badder multibit or NOS DAC in my future...if so, it will drive the V281 in my main system.


----------



## Ichos

Pharmaboy said:


> ......I remain impressed by its dynamics & bass (both are epic) & "voicing" that manages to combine resolution w/slight warmth & a musical sound.......


Exactly what i am hearing with it's little brother the V280.
A great TOTL amp and a great match with HD800s.


----------



## RobertSM (May 27, 2019)

I'm now also using V281 as a preamp for a pair of Genelec active speakers. I can confirm the same sonic character we all know and love in the headphone stage is present in the line stage of V281.


----------



## phonomat

You, Sir, are a man after my own taste. 
I use my V281 as a pre-amp for the Genelec 8331's on my desk (but with Hugo for DAC), and I can't really imagine a better desktop setup. Honestly, the only gripe I have is that the Vio and the Chord don't look good together, so I'm waiting for a new Vio Dac to exchange it. Soundwise, zero complaints.


----------



## Fegefeuer

MolecularMark said:


> After some strange overload issues, I am getting a replacement unit - Fried has been ever so helpful (as has Gerardo from PlayStereo in Italy). Can't wait to get it back up and running.
> I thought I was happy with the V200...which is brilliant, but the V281 is just better in every way. Detailed, not overly analytical and very musical. Just my kind of sound...
> I am not going to try and explain how it sounds but I just love it with my LCD-3's - a real end game headphone amp (also sounds fantastic as a preamp for my Naim Power Amp).
> Still hankering after a pair of Focal Utopias and wondering whether I should swap my Qutest DAC for something else...maybe an RME ADI-2 PRO or even an Yggdrasil but am going to wait and enjoy what I have for now.
> ...



@sahmen has the Yggdrasil A2 as far as I know. He already provided impressions of it with the V281 but maybe he wants to chime in again.


----------



## 3083joe

RobertSM said:


> I'm now also using V281 as a preamp for a pair of Genelec active speakers. I can confirm the same sonic character we all know and love in the headphone stage is present in the line stage of V281.


Very nice. Thinking of trying it in my setup


----------



## sahmen

@MolecularMark and @Fegefeuer , the V281 and the Yggy A2 just make a fantastic pairing, for both headphone and speaker listening. The versatility of the V281 allows it to do double duty as an extremely capable headphone amp, and as a preamp serving my front Tower speakers via a prepro which simply passes the Analog sound through without any processing...  I have commented several times about the sonic performance of this combo, so I won't belabor it.... Let's just say that after three years of enjoying the combo, I still do not have any wish for changing anything...  The Yggy A2 has undergone two major upgrades in that period--the USB-5 and the Analog 2 upgrades--, and each time, the V281 has interpreted and translated the sonic improvements superbly, and with a lot of aplomb.  

I could sing the praises of this combo all day, and might still wind up feeling that I haven't said enough. Still, I want to make clear that I am not at all implying that one cannot find a better combo, which would be rather silly...  I myself often dream of the Niimbus US4+, which is a unit I would like to audition in my system one day, along with a number of DACs, new and old, that I have been curious about for a while (the Chord Dave, the Denafrips Terminator, the Metrum Acoustics Pavane L3, among others come to mind), but all that dreaming remains abstract whenever I'm listening to the v281 and Yggy A2 combo, which I am not thinking of replacing any time soon.


----------



## BobG55 (May 28, 2019)

From Buzzlulu : Who is carrying the 281 these days with a return policy? I know Arthur is no longer the distributor



cj3209 said:


> Where did you hear this?  Is Arthur retiring?



Just to let members of this thread know, Arthur is once again the sales representative/ distributor for Violectric USA.  I spoke with him on the phone about a sales matter & I brought up the subject.  Arthur told me he was reinstated as the sales representative.  So if anyone needs to contact Violectric USA for any reason, Arthur's your man, again.


----------



## 3083joe

BobG55 said:


> From Buzzlulu : Who is carrying the 281 these days with a return policy? I know Arthur is no longer the distributor
> 
> 
> 
> Just to let members of this thread know, Arthur is once again the sales representative/ distributor for Violectric USA.  I spoke with him on the phone about sales matter & I brought up the subject.  Arthur told me he was reinstated as the sales representative.  So if anyone needs to contact Violectric USA for any reason, Arthur's your man, again.


Thanks for the info


----------



## tholt (Jun 8, 2019)

chimney189 said:


> Does anyone know the difference between this and the Violectric brand?
> 
> https://www.chinahao.com/Product/52...mplifier_with_preamp__germany_lakers_hpa_v281



When I clicked on this link I couldn't believe it. There's 'being influenced by' but this is outright copying! Wow. I've seen some Chi-fi knock offs of well-known audio products, but this wins the Clone of the Year award. Wonder if Violectric has seen this and considered legal action. Probably not, Chinese knock offs are a dime a dozen and probably not worth the hassle. I'm still floored.

I just bought a V281 and running it with Abyss 1266 Phi CC. So far seems to be a terrific pairing. A couple questions (I've done some searching in this thread but thought I'd just ask directly...)

Is there a noticeable difference with burn in? If so, what is the recommended time?
Are there any negatives/sonic penalties to using the pre-gain dip switches?


----------



## cj3209

tholt said:


> I just bought a V281 and running it with Abyss 1266 Phi CC. So far seems to be a terrific pairing. A couple questions (I've done some searching in this thread but thought I'd just ask directly...)
> 
> Is there a noticeable difference with burn in? If so, what is the recommended time?
> Are there any negatives/sonic penalties to using the pre-gain dip switches?


The Chinese hi-end audio companies have come a long way:  HiFiMan, iBasso, Shanling, Cayin, among others that I can think of.  But that last knock-off was pretty bold and you know the saying:  caveat emptor.

I use the V281 pre-gain switches on the back when I switch between my i4s and 1266 (-12 and +6, respectively).  Its used to accommodate different headphones; very useful if you ask me.


----------



## phonomat

According to Fried Reim, the dip switches should have no effect on sound, IIRC.


----------



## S Crowther

phonomat said:


> According to Fried Reim, the dip switches should have no effect on sound, IIRC.


In my experience the dip switches alter the sq noticeably. It is easy enough to try it and see.


----------



## tholt

cj3209 said:


> The Chinese hi-end audio companies have come a long way: HiFiMan, iBasso, Shanling, Cayin, among others that I can think of. But that last knock-off was pretty bold and you know the saying: caveat emptor.
> 
> I use the V281 pre-gain switches on the back when I switch between my i4s and 1266 (-12 and +6, respectively). Its used to accommodate different headphones; very useful if you ask me.



Agreed. I wasn't speaking about legitimate Chinese companies who are making true innovations and running respectable companies. I have a Cayin iHA-6 which is a wonderful amp for the 1266 and built very well. But that thing... I've never seen such blatant copying.

Interesting -- you have the V281 at +6 for the 1266? You must not be able to turn the volume knob very high before it gets loud. I'm finding if anything I'm going the opposite way: setting the pre-gain to -6 or even -12 gives me much more volume play.



phonomat said:


> According to Fried Reim, the dip switches should have no effect on sound, IIRC.


Cool. I'll do my own experiments, just posing the question to see if there is a consensus from the group and just getting others' experience.


----------



## tholt

S Crowther said:


> In my experience the dip switches alter the sq noticeably. It is easy enough to try it and see.



Agreed, I'll prob play around a bit. Briefly doing so yesterday, I felt that unity gain (no pre gain) seemed a tad more transparent? What did you find that noticeably changed?


----------



## jlbrach

when i owned my 281 i was able to listen at -12 balanced with the abyss 1266 phi and even the susvara


----------



## Pharmaboy (Jun 9, 2019)

jlbrach said:


> when i owned my 281 i was able to listen at -12 balanced with the abyss 1266 phi and even the susvara



This is all about system gain. I use my V281 both for headphones & as a system preamp.

If the component upstream of the V281 (ie, a DAC) has high gain--or components downstream want higher gain (ie, planar headphone like the Ori; inefficient amp for speakers)--the best tactic is to dial in gain as needed for system gain-matching 
The V281 has separate dip-switchs for headphone out vs line out. IMS the ideal setting is -12 dB for both. But if I need to have one output higher or lower, I can easily make it happen

Add in the separate muting for headphone out vs line out, and you see just how flexible the V281 is...


----------



## S Crowther (Jun 10, 2019)

tholt said:


> Agreed, I'll prob play around a bit. Briefly doing so yesterday, I felt that unity gain (no pre gain) seemed a tad more transparent? What did you find that noticeably changed?


Higher voltages seemed to me to produce a brighter edgier sound and the lower ones a duller smoother sound. I noticed also that the change was more noticeable with my Chord TT DAC than with my Terminator DAC. Not sure why or whether that was just illusion.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I use -12 dB on both the line outs & headphone outs. It gives me optimal gain matching in my rather complicated desktop system. 

I don't know of any other amp/preamp that offers this much gain matching control & flexibility. Hard to imagine ever doing w/o the V281, not just sonically (wonderful sound), but also operationally.


----------



## Pharmaboy

BobG55 said:


> From Buzzlulu : Who is carrying the 281 these days with a return policy? I know Arthur is no longer the distributor
> 
> 
> 
> Just to let members of this thread know, Arthur is once again the sales representative/ distributor for Violectric USA.  I spoke with him on the phone about a sales matter & I brought up the subject.  Arthur told me he was reinstated as the sales representative.  So if anyone needs to contact Violectric USA for any reason, Arthur's your man, again.



Glad to hear this! Arthur is a very solid audio citizen, quite helpful in the 2-3 contacts I've had with him.


----------



## Luckbad

Has anyone used both the V281 and SPL Phonitor X/XE/2?

I'm after a transparent solid state headphone amp/preamp. I was originally hoping to trade my ECP L-2 for the SPL Phonitor X but the V281 seems to be a contender.

Does anyone know if the Violetric also works well with IEMs? I need zero background noise/hiss and reasonable play in the volume knob (for normally sensitive earphones, not Andromedas).


----------



## tholt

Luckbad said:


> Has anyone used both the V281 and SPL Phonitor X/XE/2



Interested in this too. I liked the 281 but it was a little warm and laid back for my tastes. Looking at something like the SPL X or XE for a little more drive and bite...without being harsh?


----------



## RobertSM (Jun 20, 2019)

@Luckbad, I own both the SPL Phonitor X & V281.

The Phonitor X is a a very very good HP amp. It's extremely powerful and to my ears very linear in sound. If I was only going to listen to chamber and orchestra music then this would be the way I would go.

V281, leans in the direction of a slightly warmer signature to my ears. I use it everyday and it is always up for the job, regardless of what music style I throw at it. I love it so much that I have added studio monitors to it and use it as the center piece of my two channel system. V281 has a very musical presentation that I am always in the mood for.


----------



## Luckbad

Thanks, @RobertSM! That's good to hear. I'd probably like both, then. I actually prefer my ECP Audio L-2 to the SPL Phonitor XE with Sennheiser HD650s because of the slight musicality. Hmm...


----------



## tholt

@RobertSM , would you character the Phonitor X as a fast sounding amp? I need something with good PRaT and bass extension. I listen to a lot of electronica. The 281 was good, but not the best amp for that IMO. or was a tad too warm and slow for that genre.


----------



## Fegefeuer

How is the V281 too slow? 

What headphones are you using and how do you define "slow" in the context? I listen to a lot of electronic music myself and slow is not something I'd attest this amp, quite the contrary, if at all. I don't notice the blurring or smearing of textures and detail/transients etc.. It's always, sharp, focussed, separated, especially for grand orchestra, ensembles etc. 

For some people the V281 can even be a bit overly sharp.
Slow is when I have the JAR 650 on my head after having listened to a good session of acoustic music and decide to fire up electronic music and notice: yeah, this is the wrong headphone, the bass part is simply overwhelmed even though the HD650 can slam pretty well (kickbass). 
Time for the HD800 or TH-900!

I don't get these warm impressions either. The V200 is noticably warm, that's its universal impression, the V281 isn't at all in comparison. It's definitely not a warm amp per se, in fact if you compare it with the Niimbus US4+ it's more zippy, unrestrained and the US4+ isn't a generally warm amp. It just renders the treble the most natural of any SS amp I ever heard. However I have been reading people calling that amp rolled off so there is definitely a subjective part in it. 

What generelly stands out for the V281 is its liveliness, speed, driver control, slam, the total absence of a dead presentation (this is the worst). The only other amp in the price range I'd ever consider would be the BW2. That amp gets the romanticism the best.


----------



## S Crowther

Fegefeuer said:


> How is the V281 too slow?
> 
> What headphones are you using and how do you define "slow" in the context? I listen to a lot of electronic music myself and slow is not something I'd attest this amp, quite the contrary, if at all. I don't notice the blurring or smearing of textures and detail/transients etc.. It's always, sharp, focussed, separated, especially for grand orchestra, ensembles etc.
> 
> ...


I have had this amp for a couple of years now and to my ears it is on the warm side of neutral.
Which is to say nothing much at all: it all depends on the other parts of your system and the biggest variable in any system is your ears; not just the physical ear drums etc. but how your brain interprets the signals it is getting getting from the nerve endings. Just like everyone sees the same colour just slightly differently.


----------



## Ichos

I have the V280 which is the same amp section as V281.
From the balanced output this is a lighting fast amp and neutral and natural.
It's not a warm amp but it's an amp with treble done right.
There is no roll off or coloration it's just that the treble does not exhibit any ringing or other artifacts.
When compared with other amps that have treble done wrong this may sound warm.
But it isn't , it is just done right.


----------



## S Crowther (Jun 21, 2019)

Ichos said:


> I have the V280 which is the same amp section as V281.
> From the balanced output this is a lighting fast amp and neutral and natural.
> It's not a warm amp but it's an amp with treble done right.
> There is no roll off or coloration it's just that the treble does not exhibit any ringing or other artifacts.
> ...


To me it is not the treble but the mids sound just a little honeyed. That is no problem for me: I have put the 821 aside in favour of XDduoo TA-20, a hybrid headphone amp that is definitely warm!


----------



## Ichos

As always frequency response doesn't show the whole truth but we can see that the amp is dead flat
More info at https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v281-balance.php#rw9


----------



## zhgutov

S Crowther said:


> To me it is not the treble but the mids sound just a little honeyed. That is no problem for me: I have put the 821 aside in favour of XDduoo TA-20, a hybrid headphone amp that is definitely warm!


This is probably caused by source / DAC, or even the connection / setup details.
This amp "shows" the source very well.


----------



## RobertSM (Jun 21, 2019)

Agreed, V281 may measure flat, but we dont only use V281 by itself. We have things like laptops,computers,music streamers,turntables DACs, EQs, interconnect cables made of copper, silver clad copper, 100% silver cables, headphones that have every frequency curve that can be made. We also have headphone cables.

In my case I run a two channel system, so I have more issues, speaker fire time, delay, reflections and reverb and the list goes on and on... all of these factors account for how we perceive the music before it hits our ears and allows us to interpret it.

Just for fun, I'm adding a picture of the measurements of my room, using V281 as a preamp before and after room correction.

Note: The red line is how the room measures.

The blue line is frequency spectrum correction applied.

The green line is how the room measures after correction.

One final thought. I'm just a casual listener. I'm not formally trained and I spend my time here on this Head-Fi community board to learn and be apart of people that share my interests. To me all of this gear is only just a vehicle that allows me to enjoy the music. It's all about the music.

@tholt, Phonitor X does have amazing speed! If you listen to alot of electronic music then this would work very well for you. Very linear. To my ears moreso than V281. I value and have a place for both.


----------



## tholt (Jun 21, 2019)

All this is subjective, bc in the end (despite what measurements say) our ears are the final arbiters. I've owned the V200 and the V281, and while the former is definitely on the warmer side of neutral (and a fantastic amp in its own right if someone is looking for something like that w/o getting into tubes) the V281 has the same house sound. Someone else mentioned that a lot has to do with other components up the chain. Of course, that's true as well. I really enjoyed the V281, but compared to other amps I had previously and currently a Cayin iHA-6 for direct comparison, the 281 was certainly the warmer of them to my ears. Another word that I would use is 'smooth'. The V281 is quite smooth, which is to say that while it's highs may not be rolled off, they are not the most incisive to my ears. Someone else mentioned 'honeyed' mids. I would concur with that as well.

By 'slow', I didn't mean to imply the V281 _is_ slow, but comparatively slower again to the Cayin. Electronic music is all about drive and PRaT. The Cayin had more of both, IMO. I'd switch from the V281 to the Cayin and immediately start tapping my feet and bouncing my head. To each his own. I use the Abyss 1266 Phi, so it's not the headphones giving me these impressions.


----------



## Ichos

I was given the chance to have at home the Cayin before i bought the V280.
Cayin was an excellent amp in it's own right but finally i rejected it and returned the demo unit 
because sometimes the treble was definitely north of neutral not necessarily exhibiting frequency  bumps
but definitely ringing / sounding harsh at certain frequencies with some material.
This never happens with V280.
I found both amps equally fast though the V280 from the balanced out as the single ended is a bit more slow.
Both amps are equally resolving with the same amount of detail rendering.
My cans are HD800s and i listened only to classical.


----------



## RobertSM (Jun 21, 2019)

@Ichos, I agree, I was listening to Stravinsky Agon preformed by the Berlin Philharmonic, 2010 earlier this week and I was having one of those moments. You know, the moments you have when the music transports you and in this case, gave me goose bumps on my arms. It's these moments in time with music that I cherish. V281 can do it all!!


----------



## Ichos

Agon is a great ballet although over shadowed by it's brothers.
Which exact recording have been listening to?


----------



## RobertSM (Jun 21, 2019)

@Ichos, I heard this played as a web stream from a radio station in Limerick, Ireland. The station is called RTE Lyric FM and this was on a radio show called 'The blue of the night" hosted by Bernard Clarke. So I dont know the exact recording. But it was special, no doubt.


----------



## Ichos

This is a kind of trilogy with Greek based themes ballets.
You should also search for Apollo and Orpheus!


----------



## tholt

Ichos said:


> I was given the chance to have at home the Cayin before i bought the V280.
> Cayin was an excellent amp in it's own right but finally i rejected it and returned the demo unit
> because sometimes the treble was definitely north of neutral not necessarily exhibiting frequency  bumps
> but definitely ringing / sounding harsh at certain frequencies with some material.
> ...



I admit, the Cayin can be a bit 'hot' on certain recordings/passages. Esp so for electronica, when that programmed hi-hat sound is super bright! SQ depends largely on the recording. Equipment can either balance out or exacerbate any given trait. The Abyss don't do bright tendencies any favors -- they can tend toward bright as well. Perhaps I find the Cayin more engaging because it isn't as smooth as the V281. It's a bit sharper. Personal tastes for sure; I get why people like the full-bodied smoothness of the V281.

I don't own the 800s but I've heard them and of course read much more about them. From what I understand, the V280/281 would be a much more synergistic amplifier vs the Cayin for those headphones.


----------



## Ichos

Of course at the end all comes down to personal preferences.
We all hear differently and like different gear.
Both amps are good with different sound signatures and the V280 is a far better match for the HD800s.


----------



## RobertSM (Jul 4, 2019)

Finally got a balanced pure copper(Moon Audio black dragon) headphone cable for my Sennheiser HD-6XX for V281. Sublime! As has been stated, even deeper than SE. Loving this amp more than ever!


----------



## JPlaquia (Aug 7, 2019)

Hello, I am using RS06 but with no USB INPUT, and I am currently looking at the USB TO SPDIF converter and so far, I've come up with 2 choices

1) Schiit Eitr - 179 USD
2) Topping D10 - 65 USD

I was actually leaning towards the Schiit one, due to feedbacks and reviews, but would it really matter on what USB to SPDIF converter I choose? given that the RS06 has a separate oscillator or clock that works when the RESAMPLE is ON?

Any opinion is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## Pharmaboy (Aug 7, 2019)

JPlaquia said:


> Hello, I am using RS06 but with no USB INPUT, and I am currently looking at the USB TO SPDIF converter and so far, I've come up with 2 choices
> 
> 1) Schiit Eitr - 179 USD
> 2) Topping D10 - 65 USD
> ...



I've used a S/PDIF converter for years. Currently it's the Musical Fidelity V-Link 192/24. This allows me to avoid the USB board of whatever DAC I use; and I can use my extremely good/musical sounding coax cable (Oyaide R-510, a silver cable that was totally worth the money). I tried a converter said to sound even better (Ideon USB Reclocker). But unfortunately I have a ground loop in my system, and I had to return the unit. Still working on eliminating the ground loop. When I do, I'll get an Eitr to hear if what everyone says is true.

To answer your question: if the RS06's separate clock for resampling is switchable ON/OFF; and if that resampler works w/inputs other than just USB: then IMHO you should get the best, easily obtained S/PDIF converter out there (the Eitr) and try it connected to the RS06 w/a coax cable. Try it resampling ON and OFF. See which sounds better. You may end up liking both.

Assuming that all works, you have a highly flexible digital system that will suit pretty much any DAC (many of which sound better via coax than USB input). And you have an upgrade path to a really good coax cable, representing another chance at sonic goodness.

In my experience, the more chances for sonic goodness built into the system, the more options I have to tailor the sound to my tastes. It's even true for digital...


----------



## jerick70 (Aug 7, 2019)

JPlaquia said:


> Hello, I am using RS06 but with no USB INPUT, and I am currently looking at the USB TO SPDIF converter and so far, I've come up with 2 choices
> 
> 1) Schiit Eitr - 179 USD
> 2) Topping D10 - 65 USD
> ...


There are big differences in converters.  I've tried quite a few.  I haven't tried either of these though.  My favorite so far is the Matrix SPDIF 2.  It's the most refined of the converts I've used. There are more expressive ones too but not tried these.


----------



## Pharmaboy

jerick70 said:


> There are big differences in converters.  I've tried quite a few.  I haven't tried either of these though.  My favorite so far is the Matrix SPDIF 2.  It's the most refined of the converts I've used. There are more expressive ones too but not tried these.



Very interesting. Never heard of this one. Can it be used w/o the external power supply (ie, using USB bus power only)?

How is it better than other converters? And do you mean "expensive," not "expressive"?

(thanks)


----------



## Ichos

I am successfully using a Fiio K3 as a usb to coax converter with an Atlas cable and it sounds very good.
My unit is a CD player + Dac and i get exactly the same sonic quality with both inputs (CD & Coax) so
i suppose that the Fiio is getting the job done right.
(PS - The dac is upsampling everything it is fed)


----------



## Fegefeuer (Aug 7, 2019)

I've tried a lot of all that USB stuff, from the EITR to Allegro to EITR, to Matrix, Singxer, Mutec etc and it's simply not worth it. No Matrix, Singxer, Mutec will ever beat a multichannel card.
*Get the EITR and be happy with it *or go big and get a true interface card. Anything else can be a terribly deep rabbit hole full of nervosa.

The EITR does a lot of good things for its price and handles USB properly. True Isolation, reclocking, independant power from the source aka self-powered.

Of course I'd be curious to see how the DAT RS05 improves the chain as an external femtoclock.


----------



## JPlaquia

@Pharmaboy - well unfortunately there is no way for me to test both devices I mentioned, that is why I am trying to gather some opinions .



jerick70 said:


> My favorite so far is the Matrix SPDIF 2.  It's the most refined of the converts I've used.



The matrix is out of my budget so I that is automatically off of my list hehe, and I think the difference it has with the eitr is the AES/EBU which will not really matter to me as I am planning to get the RS05 (sorry forgot to mention this earlier).



Ichos said:


> I am successfully using a Fiio K3 as a usb to coax converter with an Atlas cable and it sounds very good.



Didn’t know that the K3 has a usb to coax functionality, will check this out, thank you!


----------



## jerick70

Pharmaboy said:


> Very interesting. Never heard of this one. Can it be used w/o the external power supply (ie, using USB bus power only)?
> 
> How is it better than other converters? And do you mean "expensive," not "expressive"?
> 
> (thanks)


Yes it can be used without a power adapter.  You can buy a power adapter for it too.  Yes I mean expensive not expressive.  Auto-correct is the bane of my existence....

A few things that I find superior to other adapters I've used....

1) It has been the easiest to use technically, I've had no problems with disconnect and show stoppers like that.  
2) It has and I2S output.
3) It is much more refined sounding.  More transparent.  It doesn't change the sound like others I've used.  

That's a few I can think of.


----------



## jerick70 (Aug 7, 2019)

JPlaquia said:


> @Pharmaboy - well unfortunately there is no way for me to test both devices I mentioned, that is why I am trying to gather some opinions .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So I did a little Googling and it seems the D10 is as good as the Matrix.  This link has measurements. One thing about measurements is they don't tell the whole story but go with the D10 I think you'll be happy.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...of-matrix-audio-x-spdif-2-usb-converter.6597/


----------



## Pharmaboy

jerick70 said:


> So I did a little Googling and it seems the D10 is as good as the Matrix.  This link has measurements. One thing about measurements is they don't tell the whole story but go with the D10 I think you'll be happy.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...of-matrix-audio-x-spdif-2-usb-converter.6597/



But we don't listen to measurements...and sometimes a device that measure less well than another device is reported to sound better.

Example: all other things being equal, a tube amp will measure less well than a solid state amp. But many of the tube amps I've heard sound the voice of god (and I don't even believe in god).


----------



## jerick70

Pharmaboy said:


> But we don't listen to measurements...and sometimes a device that measure less well than another device is reported to sound better.
> 
> Example: all other things being equal, a tube amp will measure less well than a solid state amp. But many of the tube amps I've heard sound the voice of god (and I don't even believe in god).


I agree.  I'm guessing the D10 isn't as good.  The SPDIF 2 is custom engineered and does reduce noise.  I've heard it first thing.


----------



## George Hincapie

Just saw this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hi-End-F...718360?hash=item41ca86fc98:g:BwgAAOSwqVBZaBn0

Made in the same factory or a clone?


----------



## Pharmaboy

George Hincapie said:


> Just saw this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hi-End-F...718360?hash=item41ca86fc98:g:BwgAAOSwqVBZaBn0
> 
> \
> 
> ...



Clone, all the way. This clone V281 thing keeps popping up from time to time in this string. 

There is no free lunch. No copy can do what a V281 does. If you aspire to own a V281, save your $$ and buy one. Don't mess w/clones.


----------



## hifimckinney

Fegefeuer said:


> I've tried a lot of all that USB stuff, from the EITR to Allegro to EITR, to Matrix, Singxer, Mutec etc and it's simply not worth it. No Matrix, Singxer, Mutec will ever beat a multichannel card.
> *Get the EITR and be happy with it *or go big and get a true interface card. Anything else can be a terribly deep rabbit hole full of nervosa.
> 
> The EITR does a lot of good things for its price and handles USB properly. True Isolation, reclocking, independant power from the source aka self-powered.
> ...



Just curious if yo have given Dante a try? Totally different and perfect (if I may say so). I too have been through those you mentioned and Audiophilleo but Dante connectivity by Audinate is so benign, it just does not do anything with the signal, signal remains pristine clean.


----------



## George Hincapie

Pharmaboy said:


> Clone, all the way. This clone V281 thing keeps popping up from time to time in this string.
> 
> There is no free lunch. No copy can do what a V281 does. If you aspire to own a V281, save your $$ and buy one. Don't mess w/clones.



Nice, thanks.


----------



## ajreynol

Has anyone run into an issue where their V281 switches inputs on its own volition? I don't have any IR-enabled equipment near by and the batteries are not in the remote control. It does this maybe a couple of times a month. I'll just notice my music isn't playing on my headphones, look over, and notice it's not on the right input.


----------



## Anaz

ajreynol said:


> Has anyone run into an issue where their V281 switches inputs on its own volition? I don't have any IR-enabled equipment near by and the batteries are not in the remote control. It does this maybe a couple of times a month. I'll just notice my music isn't playing on my headphones, look over, and notice it's not on the right input.



I've never had that happen...have you tried a factory reset? (Factory reset: press the “XLR” button when turning on the V281)


----------



## Pharmaboy

Anaz said:


> I've never had that happen...have you tried a factory reset? (Factory reset: press the “XLR” button when turning on the V281)



what's the purpose of a factory reset? does it simply revert the unit to factory settings (hard to imagine, since some of those settings are via physical dipswitches)? or is there some kind of operating system software involved?


----------



## Fegefeuer

It resets all software based settings like pre/post fader to the default setting.


----------



## Christoph

ajreynol said:


> Has anyone run into an issue where their V281 switches inputs on its own volition? I don't have any IR-enabled equipment near by and the batteries are not in the remote control. It does this maybe a couple of times a month. I'll just notice my music isn't playing on my headphones, look over, and notice it's not on the right input.



To exclude any other IR source interferences, you could tape the small round window in front of the IR sensor (with a non transparent tape of course) and the see if it happens again.


----------



## ajreynol

thanks for the suggestions. I'll try them out. Since it's so random, it'll probably be a month or more before I know if the suggestions worked. It's a really small issue, but annoying and potentially a sign of other issues, so hopefully these suggestions work.


----------



## astrostar59

TV remote?


----------



## fonna (Oct 3, 2019)

just posting some impressions / thoughts of a pretty stressful week, I own a HD800S and have been using it for a while with just the RME ADI-2 DAC, which imo is a wonderful little combination on its own, however upgraditis struck me recently to go back to balanced.

I heard a lot of great things about the Cayin iHA-6, a very well priced amplifier at 699 euro, I decided to just take the plunge and buy it. few days later the amp arrived in my home, I connect the amp balanced to my RME ADI-2 DAC, plug my HD800S into the 4pin XLR, first impressions were not bad, but not great either, soundstage seemed a little less wide, kinda presented like a "ball of sound"  rather than the usual very wide staging of the HD800S on my RME ADI-2, the Cayin generally sounded a little more closed in, surprisingly the vocals were a little warmer than my RME ADI-2 but the treble had a bit of an edge to it at the same time, I listened to the amp for a few hours, went to bed, woke up, started listening a little again, and suddenly the amp developed a horrible screechy high pitched noise, that would change its tone depending on if I touched the cable on my HD800S or not, and depending on volume. Immediately contacted Cayin about this, now I should mention that with the amp sitting on "high gain" my HD800S had a slight background noise aswell, kind of like a windy sound, not really noticeable when listening to music, but still kind of bothered me.

Cayin immediately replied to my e-mails and told me that I can send the amplifier back and get a replacement (amazing customer service), so I did that, and after a day orso I was thinking of how I used to have a Violectric V281 and I kind of missed the amp, I sold it at the time because of personal reasons, financial reasons and kind of being done with the hobby (always chasing the next upgrade), I remember the amp was always quiet no matter what I plugged into it, and the kinda neutral signature with the slight "touch of warmth" was always pleasing to my ears. So anyways I decided to ask Cayin for a refund instead of a replacement, and I had my mind set on getting a Violectric V280 this time, to pair with the RME and the HD800S in balanced.

 I managed to get a great deal on a demo model that is pretty much in mint condition. Next day the V280 arrives, I plug everything in, obviously very excited to listen to it, after about a hour orso I was horribly fatigued, the HD800S sounded super bright, mids were shouty and just generally forward, everything sounded way too dynamic. Felt awful for another hour orso, not really understanding why everything sounded so bad, returned to my RME ADI-2 DAC and just using its amp, and everything sounded quite nice and pleasant again, super disappointed with the V280, not really knowing what was going on, so I contact the dealer saying I want to refund it, basically just had enough of constantly being disappointed, the iHA-6 pretty much came DOA and sounded good but wasn't particularly impressive, V280 sounded horribly sharp and mid-forward. Now my dealer just said I could return it, no problem, I already packed everything up again, now about an hour later I get an e-mail from him asking if I have my RME connected via balanced to the V280, which is exactly  what I was doing, he told me to try an unbalanced connection.

at first I didn't really think it would make a difference, kinda hesitant to open the box again and go through the process of setting up it after all the disappointment, I eventually decided to try it, plugged in the RCA's, volume was immediately quite a bit less than through the balanced connections, but the brightness / shouty mids were completely gone. the same dynamics were present, the V280 hits pretty hard, bass is very tight, everything just sounded really good. Incredibly happy now, I however saw someone in this thread saying the RME ADI-2 DAC in combination with the V281 / HD800S sounded bright and unpleasant aswell, try switching to just regular RCA's and see what happens. anyways super long post, sorry guys, just happy everything is resolved now, and the V280 is an excellent amplifier, and a great pairing with the RME ADI-2 DAC and the HD800S.


----------



## Ichos

Hi , I think that the problem lies to the RME.
May be you need to adjust the gain at the XLR out it's too hot for the V280.
Then you should take care to set the pre gain at the V280 so as you do not have too much gain.
You have to get the pot around 2 o clock to listen loud.
As a v280 owner with HD800S I have to assure you that this is a hell of combo.
It's dead neutral with the slightest hint of warmth always using the XLR in XLR out.
There is no way that there are forward mids or annoying highs etc.
This is one of the best ss amps in existence.
So please check your RME.


----------



## fonna

I dont know if you read my post, but I already mentioned that everything sounds wonderful now.


----------



## zhgutov

@fonna 
RME ADI-2 DAC has 19 dBu (max) at XLR outputs. V280 accepts up to 21 dBu (both, XLR and RCA).
Your description (horribly sharp and mid-forward) seems like the inputs of V280 was overloaded.
XLR should be working the same way. Something strange, anyway.


----------



## Ichos

fonna said:


> I dont know if you read my post, but I already mentioned that everything sounds wonderful now.



Yes I have read it and you mentioned that this works good from the RCA input.
It should be working the same from the XLR input if you care for that.


----------



## fonna

What could the problem be? Something with the RME or maybe the cables?


----------



## Ichos (Oct 3, 2019)

If you have lowered the output of RME and the problem persists then maybe you should try another set of cables.
Ideally you need to have 4volt output at the XLR but I don't know how this translates to dbu.


----------



## zhgutov

Try different XLR cable (or check existing). They should be made like this:

https://zhgutov.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/bal-xlr.png






Some XLR cables have pin 1 connected to shield (I had such cable!).
RME and Violectric use different grounding concept, I suppose.
This may be the case.


----------



## zhgutov (Oct 3, 2019)

Ichos said:


> If you have lowered the output of RME and the problem persists then maybe you should try another set of cables.
> Ideally you need to have 4volt output at the XLR but I don't know how this translates to dbu.


4V is ~14 dBu. Everything is fine up to 20 dBu, at least with the V281, which has the same input specs.
https://zhgutov.online/measurements/rmaa/reports/v281-line-pre-diff/

The only difference in V280 is the pre-gain stage placed before the volume control, according to the block circuit diagram.
So probably you need to check the pre-gain if XLR inputs (with 19 dBu!) are used (make it 0 or lower).


----------



## Ichos

When I was using it with the HD800 , with 4volt input the 0gain setting was just fine.


----------



## RobertSM (Oct 3, 2019)

zhgutov said:


> Try different XLR cable (or check existing). They should be made like this:
> 
> https://zhgutov.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/bal-xlr.png
> 
> ...




On the subject of XLR cables and Violectric V281/V280.

I think it's very much forgotten but Violectric does produce a fantastic line of German made XLR and RCA cables.

I've spent a fair amount of time over the last 8-9 months trying 4 and 5 different brands cables in my V850-->V281 system. I've tested and listened. My results and opinion is for my system and to my ears the Violectric brand cables offer the best audio performance regardless of price. I tested cables from some of the biggest names. Many claimed to twist the internal wires in many ways. For me this trend of twisting wires(many companies claim one form of another of this method) has proven to be a not allow the energy to flow freely. It seems to me that it's a bottleneck and congestion in this crazy matrix of twisted wires. Trust me, I tested wires that sold for $800.00 USD per .5m.

But after looking back into an old thread, either it was an old V281 or old DAC V850 post. I read that Violectric made a line of high quality cables.

So, I started with one...I ordered a 1.5m XLR cable. This first test was from my V281 to my powered Genelec speakers. Instant success! 10 times improvement in every notable category we desire and hold true as music lovers. So long story short, I have also been running a .5m Violectric XLR cable from V850 to V281. Also, I'm running a Violectric 1.5m RCA from my tube phono preamp to V281. My last cable replacement will be a Violectric RCA cable from V850 to my tube headphone amp.

If you dont know about the Violectric brand cables, I would strongly recommend seeking them out. I give them my highest endorsement.

One final note. Yesterday, I received back to me from Lake People aka Violectric my DAC V850 from Germany.

I had an issue arise that required my V850 to be sent into Lake People. All of the communications with Lake People was very efficient. They stand by their work and have earned my respect for this. I'm more so impressed with the customer service of Lake People. Top notch!

I digress.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Oct 3, 2019)

I agree. Had tons of XLR cables myself. Audioquest, Summer Cable Epilogue, Wireworld. The Violectric cables are not only going all in on specs (gauge, wiring, shielding etc.) they are also very well built and pretty tough physically. Simply proper pro audio cables that also serve audiophile nervosa. 












Did you ever see Fried's all silver Audeze cable? Afair he has to remake them for each audio show/fair because there's always someone buying it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

fonna said:


> just posting some impressions / thoughts of a pretty stressful week, I own a HD800S and have been using it for a while with just the RME ADI-2 DAC, which imo is a wonderful little combination on its own, however upgraditis struck me recently to go back to balanced.
> 
> I heard a lot of great things about the Cayin iHA-6, a very well priced amplifier at 699 euro, I decided to just take the plunge and buy it. few days later the amp arrived in my home, I connect the amp balanced to my RME ADI-2 DAC, plug my HD800S into the 4pin XLR, first impressions were not bad, but not great either, soundstage seemed a little less wide, kinda presented like a "ball of sound"  rather than the usual very wide staging of the HD800S on my RME ADI-2, the Cayin generally sounded a little more closed in, surprisingly the vocals were a little warmer than my RME ADI-2 but the treble had a bit of an edge to it at the same time, I listened to the amp for a few hours, went to bed, woke up, started listening a little again, and suddenly the amp developed a horrible screechy high pitched noise, that would change its tone depending on if I touched the cable on my HD800S or not, and depending on volume. Immediately contacted Cayin about this, now I should mention that with the amp sitting on "high gain" my HD800S had a slight background noise aswell, kind of like a windy sound, not really noticeable when listening to music, but still kind of bothered me.
> 
> ...



Amazing tale. Also scary. I've never managed to make my V281 sound anything less than amazing, but obviously some combinations are asking for trouble. Glad you found the path back to that satisfying Violectric sound!

PS: I also own & love the Lake People G109-A. It has the same "house sound," which = very satisfying, even, and predictably good on every headphone. It doesn't have quite the bass impact or overall dynamics of the V281...but then, few amps do.


----------



## RobertSM

Fegefeuer said:


> Did you ever see Fried's all silver Audeze cable? Afair he has to remake them for each audio show/fair because there's always someone buying it.



No, I never knew Fried made a headphone cable.  And in silver nonetheless?


----------



## zhgutov

Badas said:


> I know it's not a V281 but it's for a V281.
> 
> I received this today from Violectrics:
> 
> ...



Moreover, they can do special purpose cables on request ^ ^ ^


----------



## astrostar59

Interesting. I had no issues with my V281 and my Kassandra DAC and that has 10v on RCA, maybe touch less, but is hot. It sounded great, no distortion or any issues. I ran it like that with no pre or post gain or reduced gain. I had the pot at about 10 oclcok on the LCD4 for normal to loudish level.


----------



## Pharmaboy

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I had no issues with my V281 and my Kassandra DAC and that has 10v on RCA, maybe touch less, but is hot. It sounded great, no distortion or any issues. I ran it like that with no pre or post gain or reduced gain. I had the pot at about 10 oclcok on the LCD4 for normal to loudish level.



10V on RCA from a DAC? That's so high!

For 3 yrs I ran an Audio GD NOS 19 DAC w/2.5V output on the RCAs. Going from my previous DAC (w/1.8V on RCAs) to the AGD caused gain/mismatch havoc in my rather complicated desktop system. But thanks to the V281's operational flexibility & the presence of an electronic crossover w/its own gain pots, I was able to quickly adapt to this 39% bump in system gain.


----------



## zhgutov (Oct 3, 2019)

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I had no issues with my V281 and my Kassandra DAC and that has 10v on RCA, maybe touch less, but is hot. It sounded great, no distortion or any issues. I ran it like that with no pre or post gain or reduced gain. I had the pot at about 10 oclcok on the LCD4 for normal to loudish level.



Even 24 dBu is okay in most cases (For V281! Not sure about V280).
But the measurements will show the distortion.
The signal will be affected at the highest peaks only.
And in the case of the ladder DAC such distortions are even less important.


----------



## Bonddam

I joined the club just emailing back an forth between Author was planning to meet and pick up the amp but didn't feel like driving. I got the v281 coming was wondering about the gain switches.


----------



## RobertSM

Bonddam said:


> I joined the club just emailing back an forth between Author was planning to meet and pick up the amp but didn't feel like driving. I got the v281 coming was wondering about the gain switches.



The gain switches are one of the strengths of V281. They allow you to match headphone impedance. Any headphone you have can be easily driven by V281. Even 600 ohm headphones & planars.


----------



## Bonddam

So I have Verite which are 300 ohms how would I choose the right gain switch? Would it just be volume control or something to do with just sounding better?


----------



## RobertSM

Bonddam said:


> So I have Verite which are 300 ohms how would I choose the right gain switch? Would it just be volume control or something to do with just sounding better?



The gain DIP switches on the back on the V281 is where you will control this.


----------



## RobertSM

I think there is a general consensus that using the balanced headphone output really allows V281 to shine and strut it's stuff. That said, the single ended headphone output is also very very good.


----------



## Ichos

Bonddam said:


> So I have Verite which are 300 ohms how would I choose the right gain switch? Would it just be volume control or something to do with just sounding better?



Ideally you need to be around 3 o'clock on the pot to listen really loud.
You can test and find what is to your liking.


----------



## Ichos

RobertSM said:


> I think there is a general consensus that using the balanced headphone output really allows V281 to shine and strut it's stuff. That said, the single ended headphone output is also very very good.



Balanced is the way to go to enjoy it in it's full glory both amp stages working together.
Single ended is like listening to a V200 exactly.
Not bad at all!


----------



## Fegefeuer

1) Always go balanced with the V281 to fully utilize all 4 amps inside.

2) Start with 0db (default) and listen for a few days, acclimate to the sound, get a feel for it, dive into it. Afterwards try -12db and see how that works out for you


----------



## Bonddam

Fegefeuer said:


> 1) Always go balanced with the V281 to fully utilize all 4 amps inside.
> 
> 2) Start with 0db (default) and listen for a few days, acclimate to the sound, get a feel for it, dive into it. Afterwards try -12db and see how that works out for you


So its more of a SQ thing then getting the right amount of volume like using a high low gain on other amps.
Thanks


----------



## Ichos

No it's about getting the right amount of volume so you don't get loud very early or run out of headroom.
SQ is the same with all gain options.
SQ is slightly different between the balanced and the single ended out with the latter being more dark.


----------



## mixman

Bonddam said:


> So its more of a SQ thing then getting the right amount of volume like using a high low gain on other amps.
> Thanks


Would like to hear your Mini vs V281 impressions once you get it.


----------



## Bonddam

Okay that clears it up. I'll be using balanced connection only.


----------



## Bonddam

mixman said:


> Would like to hear your Mini vs V281 impressions once you get it.


I'll post impressions.


----------



## RobertSM (Oct 6, 2019)

I use V281 not only as a headphone amp but also as a pre-amp to a pair of powered speakers.

I just recently added a Technics SL-1200 MK2 into a Eddie Current Classic tube phono pre-amp(40db of gain) into V281's RCA inputs.  It's an incredibly flexible and mighty powerful unit!


----------



## Pharmaboy

Fegefeuer said:


> 1) Always go balanced with the V281 to fully utilize all 4 amps inside.
> 
> 2) Start with 0db (default) and listen for a few days, acclimate to the sound, get a feel for it, dive into it. Afterwards try -12db and see how that works out for you



So what exactly is the relationship between the dipswitch arrays on the outside/back ("Pre Gain") vs the "Line Output Level" switches inside the case? I ask because when I use the Pre Gain to optimally set system gain (ie, to speakers & sub), the headphone outputs have much less volume knob rotation/play. 

Should I try setting the system gain via Line Output Level (after setting headphone levels via Pre Gain)?


----------



## RobertSM (Oct 5, 2019)

Pharmaboy said:


> So what exactly is the relationship between the dipswitch arrays on the outside/back ("Pre Gain") vs the "Line Output Level" switches inside the case? I ask because when I use the Pre Gain to optimally set system gain (ie, to speakers & sub), the headphone outputs have much less volume knob rotation/play.
> 
> Should I try setting the system gain via Line Output Level (after setting headphone levels via Pre Gain)?



I could be wrong and I dont have V281 owners manual is front of me...

But I thought the rear DIP switches were for headphone outputs and the internal switches controlled the line outputs(XLR & RCA).

Edit.

Or do the internal switches control both line inputs and outputs?  I need to get out my owner's manual and read up on this again.


----------



## Pharmaboy

RobertSM said:


> I could be wrong and I dont have V281 owners manual is front of me...
> 
> But I thought the rear DIP switches were for headphone outputs and the internal switches controlled the line outputs(XLR & RCA).
> 
> ...



My confusion stems from the fact that something called "Pre Gain" would presumably adjust the input voltage that goes to the amps inside, whether outputed for headphones or as Line Outs. So I assumed Pre-Gain would affect both, and it appears to do that. 

But there are separate line out setting inside the case...confusing.


----------



## RobertSM

@Pharmaboy,

While not an answer to your question. Here is official text from the owner's manual regarding line-outputs.


----------



## Bonddam

Opening the case doesn’t void warranty?


----------



## Pharmaboy

RobertSM said:


> @Pharmaboy,
> 
> While not an answer to your question. Here is official text from the owner's manual regarding line-outputs.



Yes, I have the manual & have studied that section. 

Frankly, it's confusing as hell (no doubt it's translated from German, and it shows). 

Maybe I'm just easily confused while others easily grasp all the nuances (one never knows).


----------



## S Crowther

Ichos said:


> No it's about getting the right amount of volume so you don't get loud very early or run out of headroom.
> SQ is the same with all gain options.
> SQ is slightly different between the balanced and the single ended out with the latter being more dark.


I disagree. Changing the gain settings makes a big difference to the sound signature. Higher gain produces a brighter sharper sound and the lower gain a softer, warmer, flatter sound. This is so for all the headphones I have tried with it.


----------



## 111MilesToGo (Oct 6, 2019)

Pharmaboy said:


> So what exactly is the relationship between the dipswitch arrays on the outside/back ("Pre Gain") vs the "Line Output Level" switches inside the case? I ask because when I use the Pre Gain to optimally set system gain (ie, to speakers & sub), the headphone outputs have much less volume knob rotation/play.
> 
> Should I try setting the system gain via Line Output Level (after setting headphone levels via Pre Gain)?





RobertSM said:


> I could be wrong and I dont have V281 owners manual is front of me...
> 
> But I thought the rear DIP switches were for headphone outputs and the internal switches controlled the line outputs(XLR & RCA).
> 
> ...





Pharmaboy said:


> My confusion stems from the fact that something called "Pre Gain" would presumably adjust the input voltage that goes to the amps inside, whether outputed for headphones or as Line Outs. So I assumed Pre-Gain would affect both, and it appears to do that.
> 
> But there are separate line out setting inside the case...confusing.



@Pharmaboy : Yes, me too, I find the manual a tad confusing. I had always read your posts as one of the great advocates of the V281, knowing it in and out.

So maybe a little help: Looking at the block circuit diagram (page 13 in the German manual) clarified things for me. Where Pre-Gain sits and why it‘s named that way, and where the two variants of line-out are taken off, and how the line-out dip switches come in. The only additional info from the text on page 22 is that the post-fader line-out is taken from the last tap of the main volume fader.

EDIT, cf. next post: That sentence on page 22 really seems to be misleading!!!

Maybe that diagram helps. Remark: For me, that is theory only, haven‘t used line-our yet.


----------



## 111MilesToGo (Oct 6, 2019)

111MilesToGo said:


> @Pharmaboy : Yes, me too, I find the manual a tad confusing. I had always read your posts as one of the great advocates of the V281, knowing it in and out.
> 
> So maybe a little help: Looking at the block circuit diagram (page 13 in the German manual) clarified things for me. Where Pre-Gain sits and why it‘s named that way, and where the two variants of line-out are taken off, and how the line-out dip switches come in. The only additional info from the text on page 22 is that the post-fader line-out is taken from the last tap of the main volume fader.
> 
> Maybe that diagram helps. Remark: For me, that is theory only, haven‘t used line-our yet.


Continuing, but still without access to my V281:

Pre-gain (outside) DIP switches change the signal right in front of the main headphone amps. According to the block diagram, they don‘t act on the line-outs.

The line-out DIP switches (inside) act on line-out only. In pre-fader mode, nothing else acts on the line-out level, which thus is fixed level; and the block diagram names it ”fixed“.

Yes, the confusion relates to the so-called post-fader line-out mode. The block diagram reads like it is naming this ”variable“, and the text on page 21 confirms this. Post-fader means the main volume pot acts on line-out. The text on page 22 is misleading, also in German! The internal line-out DIPs do act the same in both modes.


----------



## Bonddam

RobertSM said:


> I use V281 not only as a headphone amp but also as a pre-amp to a pair of powered speakers.
> 
> I just recently added a Technics SL-1200 MK2 into a Eddie Current Classic tube phono pre-amp(40db of gain) into V281's RCA inputs.  It's an incredibly flexible and might powerful unit!


I love that turntable. I have same one had to change out the tracking device which was fun. Though my son decided to step on it causing it to skip at the center of the records. I was moving stuff around and mistakenly put on the floor and left for work. I miss using it. If there was place that fixs them i'd send it out.


----------



## Bonddam

111MilesToGo said:


> Continuing, but still without access to my V281:
> 
> Pre-gain (outside) DIP switches change the signal right in front of the main headphone amps. According to the block diagram, they don‘t act on the line-outs.
> 
> ...


Is this amp confusing or what? You can change switches inside and outside for better results. I’m going to be stumped reading that manual due to my Dyslexia. I hope I don’t ever need to touch the internal switches.


----------



## RobertSM (Oct 6, 2019)

Bonddam said:


> I love that turntable. I have same one had to change out the tracking device which was fun. Though my son decided to step on it causing it to skip at the center of the records. I was moving stuff around and mistakenly put on the floor and left for work. I miss using it. If there was place that fixs them i'd send it out.



My Technics SL-1200 MK2 is stock. I have found a pretty passionate engineer/tech who takes stock 1200 turntables and does a variety of upgrades(depending on your budget)to get them to audiophile level.

I'm actually hoping to send mine out to him next year for upgrades.  Even though this turntable gets looked down by some audiophiles it's actually a worthy and capable unit.

Link to the business that does the upgrades.

https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/


----------



## Bonddam

RobertSM said:


> My Technics SL-1200 MK2 is stock. I have found a pretty passionate engineer/tech who takes stock 1200 turntables and does a variety of upgrades(depending on your budget). To get them to audiophile level.
> 
> I'm actually hoping to send mine out to him next year for upgrades.  Even though this turntable gets looked down by some audiophiles it's actually a worthy and capable unit.
> 
> ...


It gets looked down on because it’s direct drive. I have a Pro Ject carbon which is good but I hate having to change between 45 and 33. The Technics is just so simple and fun. I’ll be contacting that company to get mine fixed.


----------



## Bonddam

The guy is less then an hour from me. Good thing I messaged you I was about to throw it out.
Thank you for the help.


----------



## Pharmaboy

111MilesToGo said:


> @Pharmaboy : Yes, me too, I find the manual a tad confusing. I had always read your posts as one of the great advocates of the V281, knowing it in and out.
> 
> So maybe a little help: Looking at the block circuit diagram (page 13 in the German manual) clarified things for me. Where Pre-Gain sits and why it‘s named that way, and where the two variants of line-out are taken off, and how the line-out dip switches come in. The only additional info from the text on page 22 is that the post-fader line-out is taken from the last tap of the main volume fader.
> 
> ...



I can't make sense of that line diagram either. I'm borderline stupid when it comes to electronics.

Hope you get a chance to use the line outs. I've used them on my V281 since day-1. It's a truly accomplished system preamp. Great sound that way...that slight warmth, deep/impactful bass & top-notch dynamic capability comes through 100% on speakers. In fact, the V281's pre-amp outputs helped push me in the path of 2 very fine sealed 2-way speaker systems now on hand.


----------



## Bonddam

Pharmaboy said:


> I can't make sense of that line diagram either. I'm borderline stupid when it comes to electronics.
> 
> Hope you get a chance to use the line outs. I've used them on my V281 since day-1. It's a truly accomplished system preamp. Great sound that way...that slight warmth, deep/impactful bass & top-notch dynamic capability comes through 100% on speakers. In fact, the V281's pre-amp outputs helped push me in the path of 2 very fine sealed 2-way speaker systems now on hand.


Are the internal switches just for pre amp section?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Bonddam said:


> Are the internal switches just for pre amp section?



Per post Post #4348 of 4355 on previous pg (by @111MilesToGo), the internal dipswitches affect only the preamp outputs, not the headphone outputs; while the dipswitches on the back panel affect only the headphone outputs.

This makes sense. I recently changed the dipswitch setting on back panel (to increase gain), thinking it would affect the line outs. It didn't affect the line outs at all, but the gain on my headphone outputs increased.


----------



## zhgutov

S Crowther said:


> I disagree. Changing the gain settings makes a big difference to the sound signature. Higher gain produces a brighter sharper sound and the lower gain a softer, warmer, flatter sound. This is so for all the headphones I have tried with it.



Try to compare with the same loudness.


----------



## S Crowther (Oct 6, 2019)

zhgutov said:


> Try to compare with the same loudness.


Of course I did.
If you go back over the years in this thread you will see various people noticing the same thing.


----------



## zhgutov

S Crowther said:


> Of course I did.
> If you go back over the years in this thread you will see various people noticing the same thing.



I was one of these people, until I matched the volume precisely using the same input level from the DAC


----------



## 111MilesToGo

Pharmaboy said:


> Per post Post #4348 of 4355 on previous pg (by @111MilesToGo), the internal dipswitches affect only the preamp outputs, not the headphone outputs; while the dipswitches on the back panel affect only the headphone outputs.
> 
> This makes sense. I recently changed the dipswitch setting on back panel (to increase gain), thinking it would affect the line outs. It didn't affect the line outs at all, but the gain on my headphone outputs increased.


Glad to help and clarify this. Great amp, beautiful sound; but the manual has room for slight improvements.

BTW 1: It is actually not 100% true that I didn‘t use the V281 line-out. Did it once for no more than a minute: Hooked up my 30-yr old Stax SR-Lambda Signature with its T1 tube amp/energizer, only to find out that I still hate this Stax for its overly bright and harsh sound after many years of not using them; loving the speed and resolution, though, but their SQ price is too high.

BTW 2: What are the speakers you were referring to a few posts back? The Wharfedale 225s as per your signature? Would like to hear more.


----------



## Pharmaboy

111MilesToGo said:


> Glad to help and clarify this. Great amp, beautiful sound; but the manual has room for slight improvements.
> 
> BTW 1: It is actually not 100% true that I didn‘t use the V281 line-out. Did it once for no more than a minute: Hooked up my 30-yr old Stax SR-Lambda Signature with its T1 tube amp/energizer, only to find out that I still hate this Stax for its overly bright and harsh sound after many years of not using them; loving the speed and resolution, though, but their SQ price is too high.
> 
> BTW 2: What are the speakers you were referring to a few posts back? The Wharfedale 225s as per your signature? Would like to hear more.



I've tried the V281 on 4 pairs of speakers by now. It totally kills on each/all:

*Swan M300 MKIIs: *a humble but very nice-sounding powered 2-way. I have 2 other amp/preamps, but the V281 sounds better & more expressive than either: that slight warmth, crushing bass, strong soundstaging for a SS amp & big dynamic range really come through. I upgraded after this, but the Swans are now set up w/big OLED TV & still sound good.
*ATC SCM12 Pro: *big adventure going from powered to passive. I picked up a well reviewed class D amp to do the heavy lifting. These ATCs are rather amazing--physically large sealed 2-ways w/a very large sound, jack-hammer bass, high resolution but still musical. Again, the V281 only accentuates everything that's good about the ATCs.
*Wharfedale Diamond 225s:* I was curious & they weren't much $$, even new. I liked their slightly diffuse, musical sound, and they worked well in my nearfield setup. Ultimately they didn't hold my interest like the ATCs do, so I'm selling them for cheap $$. I'm guessing these would sound even better in a trad room array (not nearfield) w/more space behind/around each speaker.
*Aerial Acoustics 5B: *just got a gently used pair of this legendary sealed 2-way. Besides being drop dead pretty, their sound is really excellent: refined, musical, lots of soundstage, even in the nearfield, and solid bass. I may end up selling these for life reasons, also because the ATCs remain the best sound I've ever heard in a nearfield array (though the 5Bs make it a horse race).
Believe me when I say the V281 is an extremely capable, good-sounding preamp. It doesn't hurt one bit that it has so much/so flexible gain adjustment capability; also that it's remote controlled; also that it's an amazingly musical headphone amp. I love my V281!


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## NDonchev (Oct 7, 2019)

Hi guys!

Just received the last peace of my audio equipment puzzle - the PI2AES transport. I have hooked it to the Yggy A2 through AES/EBU XLR and then to the V281 with XLR cables (Grimm TPR). I can't believe how well the V281 scales with better and better source signal. I could easily hear how the sound changes even when switching the power of PI2AES from normal PSU to battery.

Although I have a problem with the loudness of the signal. PI2AES's AES output made the Yggy A2 output even louder signal through the XLRs and then the V281 outputs to the HD800S headphones also through XLR. I have switched the pre-gain on the back of the V281 to -18db. Yesterday I read around here that there is another pair of pre-gain switches inside the unit so I switched them also to -18db. Not a big change - still normal listening volume is at about 9 - 9:30 on the volume knob. Do you have some suggestions for how to improve the situation?

It's strange to me that the Yggy's output signal is with different loudness based on what digital signal it's being fed. I though digital signal shouldn't have loudness and impact the output volume of a DAC. For example, when feeding the Yggy with the optical output of a PlayStation 4 (which sounds surprisingly good by the way) the v281 is at normal listening volume when the volume knob is at about 12-13 o'clock. Also I have tried to use a very cheap RCAs for interconnects and that makes the signal quieter, but the sound quality also suffers.

So, any suggestions on how to tame the v281 beast a bit?

EDIT: Went through the latest posts on the matter, however not helped much. At least I now know the internal pre-gain switches affect the line-out only.

EDIT2: The Yggy's manual says:
Output: One pair XLR balanced and two pairs RCA single-ended
Output Impedance: 75 ohms
Maximum Output: 4.0V RMS (balanced), 2.0V RMS (single-ended)

My interconnect XLR cables are 110 ohms, does this matter?

EDIT3: I found that there are devices called XLR attenuators. Do you have experience with them? It seems they can solve the issue. So I guess now the main question is if the v281 will sound better when listened with the pot at at least 12 o'clock and will the XLR attenuators degrade sound quality.

Example of such devices are:
JTS MA-123
Shure A15AS
Audio-Technica AT8202


----------



## Pharmaboy

NDonchev said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Just received the last peace of my audio equipment puzzle - the PI2AES transport. I have hooked it to the Yggy A2 through AES/EBU XLR and then to the V281 with XLR cables (Grimm TPR). I can't believe how well the V281 scales with better and better source signal. I could easily hear how the sound changes even when switching the power of PI2AES from normal PSU to battery.
> 
> ...



4.0V output via XLR (from Yggy) is 2X the nominal 2.0V output via RCA. Loudness of signal coming from an XLR cable is 6 dB higher than loudness of signal coming out of RCA, and this is why that happens. It's totally normal to have a hotter signal coming off XLR than RCA.

I know there are all kinds of arguments for w/staying XLR out of Yggy to XLR in on the V281. But I also remember reading more than once in this thread that XLR signal into the V281 is turned into single-ended to route through amps. Have no way to check that, but remember reading it.

If that's true (and for reason below), if I were you, I'd try a high-quality RCA interconnect from Yggy to V281. I remember comments about Yggy that it didn't sound notably superior through XLR out vs RCA, unlike some DACs (though again, could be wrong).

I've only used the RCA inputs to my V281, never XLR. And I'm getting terrific sound out of it. I could have switched to XLR, but when switching DACs in September, I decided not to because I already wrestle with system gain being high (both on preamp outs & HP outs on V281) as it is ... and doubling the voltage coming in wouldn't exactly help. Just as you describe, that would tend to overwhelm those very flexible gain controls on back & internal of V281.


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## Fegefeuer (Oct 7, 2019)

You could go for the Jensen transformer PO-2XR https://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/po-2xx/ and connect the XLR out of the Yggy to the Line out of the V281. That way you retain the qualities of Yggys XLR output. Yggy and GumBy definitely sound best over XLR. That "flaw" will be fixed with the new generation. Bifrost 2 already is part of that.

V281 is great on ALL inputs and it scales high indeed. I sold my GumBy to make space for a new DAC in 2020 and I have withdrawal symptoms like I never experienced before. I tested a friend's ADI-2 on it, forget about it. GumBy dynamics, staging, detail, tonality is quite superior and the V281 rewards it very much.
Had my Hifiman headphones reshelled, modded/dampened and the V281 now shows every nuance of it and proves how relevant they are still today, especially a lost and forgotten headphone like the HE-4.


----------



## Bonddam

Just received my v281 today liking it very much. I was trying to find out what class of amps the v281 belongs to? I kinda think it's not class A as it runs with slightest warmth. Only which it might not be an issue is the fader as it doesn't completely fade left or right. Is that how it is or is there a problem with mine? When I fade right the right side gets louder and when I fade left it stays at same volume.


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## Fegefeuer

It only affects the right channel. That's how it's supposed to work. Else you'd have to compromise crosstalk attenuation if you'd go with a full classic balance circuit.


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## Bonddam (Oct 10, 2019)

So I got email telling me this is AB topology amplifier. I'm liking the amp more and more I listen to it. I don't know how to describe the difference between the V281 and HeadAmp GSX-mini. I'll say I'm happy owning both. If I try my hardest the gsx is more about the upper end and V281 is warm.
My favorite headphone on the gsx is the Verite. Still haven't tested the Verite on v281.I switched back to the mini and bass was the same. It comes down to warm sound or not. I like both equally.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I need some help. My question may/may not have been discussed in the 291 previous pages here, but I can't find it. 


I've been told that there are opamps in the back of the V281, near the inputs, which (unlike other opamps elsewhere in the circuit) can actually affect the sound. I've also been told that Sparkos SS360s opamps (URL below) can be used in the V281 in those positions.
https://sparkoslabs.com/product/dual-discrete-op-amp-ss3602/
This is very interesting because I've read much praise of these opamps in connection w/a class D amp (Nord NC500, which allows opamp rolling on input board).

Before I take the cover off and try to identify the opamps, I can tell this will be challenging. Has anyone rolled opamps in the V281? 

These 2 shots are from a very comprehensive post by @Fegefeuer 5 years ago. They show what appear to the conflicting views of the back of the V281. Perhap the 1st is w/o a PCB in place & the 2nd is w/that PCB in place? Are the opamps the white rectangular components?


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## Geezer Rock 001

I believe they are under the dac deck. You may have to loosen it to get to the op amps that you are looking for.

  Maybe someone can give you a tip on loosening the deck. My V100 does not have the dac.

  The Sparkos op amps really improve the performance on my V100!


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## Pharmaboy

FYI, my V281 does not have an internal DAC. So maybe that 2nd-level board is not even there?


----------



## Geezer Rock 001

Here is a picture of my V100 with no dac deck.  The Sparkos 3602 is on the left and the stock Texas Instrument op amp is on the right.


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## Ichos

@Pharmaboy 
Why not email Mr. Fried Reim and ask him directly?
He always responds and is very helpful.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

Pharmaboy said:


> I need some help. My question may/may not have been discussed in the 291 previous pages here, but I can't find it.
> 
> 
> I've been told that there are opamps in the back of the V281, near the inputs, which (unlike other opamps elsewhere in the circuit) can actually affect the sound. I've also been told that Sparkos SS360s opamps (URL below) can be used in the V281 in those positions.
> ...


@Pharmaboy: Are you into DIY modding now? Interesting topic, and in particular that opamp rolling.

A personal story of mine: I had a friend some 25 years ago, who did this for my then audio gear. All the beefing up of power transformers and power supply buffer capacitors, and assorted mods where deemed necessary including opamps, capacitors etc. It was a nice experience in that every step could be auditioned separately. In the end, it wasn‘t so nice because (a) we got apart from each other due to jobs, moving etc, leaving the final touches to my then preamp undone, and because (b) it caused a certain restless and unhappy state of mind which was the DIY kind of upgraditis.

Just my personal historical story from 25 years back.

Expanding on that: The main reason to sort of hibernate the audio hobby was not being able to overcome room effects with traditional (too) big speakers. Many years later, I am now more than happy to have computer audio with a USB DAC (Hugo 2), the V281 and headphones (Sennheiser HD800S, Beyer T1.2) as a ”minimalistic“ system.


----------



## phonomat

^ Have you thought about adding some nearfield spekers to your setup? My Genelecs monitors helped me take the room more or less out of the equation, and they play great with Hugo/V281. It's a nice alternative when I get tired of wearing headphones all the time.
But I realize this is *Head*-Fi, so I'll shut up now.


----------



## RobertSM

Pharmaboy said:


> I need some help. My question may/may not have been discussed in the 291 previous pages here, but I can't find it.
> 
> 
> I've been told that there are opamps in the back of the V281, near the inputs, which (unlike other opamps elsewhere in the circuit) can actually affect the sound. I've also been told that Sparkos SS360s opamps (URL below) can be used in the V281 in those positions.
> ...



A very interesting set of questions. I'll be following this one closely as the idea of further improvement to V281 is of interest.

The suggestion of reaching out to Violectric/Lake People is a good one. I was in communication with Fried last month regarding my DAC V850. I found him to very approachable and a pleasure to deal with. I'm sure, if you decide to seek him out, you'd have similar results. Please keep us posted.


----------



## Pharmaboy

RobertSM said:


> A very interesting set of questions. I'll be following this one closely as the idea of further improvement to V281 is of interest.
> 
> The suggestion of reaching out to Violectric/Lake People is a good one. I was in communication with Fried last month regarding my DAC V850. I found him to very approachable and a pleasure to deal with. I'm sure, if you decide to seek him out, you'd have similar results. Please keep us posted.



@RobertSM, do you have Freid's email?


----------



## RobertSM

The email address I used for my communication with Fried is:

info@lake-people.de


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## Pharmaboy

RobertSM said:


> The email address I used for my communication with Fried is:
> 
> info@lake-people.de



thanks!


----------



## Pharmaboy

111MilesToGo said:


> @Pharmaboy: Are you into DIY modding now? Interesting topic, and in particular that opamp rolling.



I'd never heard of "opamp rolling" until 2-3 years ago when I got the humble but nice-sounding M Stage Matrix HPA-1 headphone amp. It was reputed to sound way better w/any of several aftermarket opamps. I got the ones everybody raved about and they sounded awful. Never even made to full burn-in...way too bright. Then I got a highly praised, more expensive opamp, which proved to interesting: good sound, not bright, but the soundstage collapsed to the center. Finally I got a 3rd set that people rave about--and the 3rd time was the charm. Beautiful sound, less boomy bass, all sonic changes positive. A real success story IMO.

All to say I know how much opamp rolling can improve sound--depending, of course, on the circuit involved.

The opamp thing w/the V281 comes as a surprise: the sound of the V281 is already so fine that opamp rolling never occurred to me. But @Geezer Rock 001 swears by the benefits of Sparkos SS3602 opamps w/his Violectric V100. And as it turns out, that the very opamp I read so many positive things about in connection with a Nord class D amp that allows opamp rolling...and apparently one that fits the V281.

Now if I can only figure out where the stock opamps live in the V281...


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## Ichos

Please keep us informed and if you contact Mr. Reim please be kind enough to ask about V280 too?


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## Fegefeuer

Remember the warranty though. It's not covered. Good to contact him before.
Anyway. Fried is obviously aware of "better" opamps and how much they really affect the sound.


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## Joao Paulo Martins (Oct 19, 2019)

Hello guys, does any of you have a interference on the right channel output using the pre outs ?

Thanks

Joao


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## Bonddam

no mine works perfect. send it out for warranty.


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## Pharmaboy

*OPAMP ROLLING THE V281 - Initial Progress & Impressions*

It has been a busy couple weeks soliciting advice/comments from various helpful people; getting the new Sparkos SS3602 opamps; and installing them. Many thanks to Arthur of Power Holdings (a very responsive & helpful Violectric rep in the U.S.); Fried Reim, CEO of Lake People/Violectric (most knowledgeable & helpful, well known on this thread); Andrew Sparks of Sparkos; and @Geezer Rock 001, who brought this opamp rolling for the V281 idea to my attention & has given me helpful feedback throughout. Since I last posted here:

I opened the V281's case, located the stock opamps, and per Fried's suggestion, measured heat from an associated transformer & heatsink (90 degrees F after 10"-15" initial warm-up) -- as a baseline/reference point for the new opamps
Yesterday I replaced the stock opamps w/the somewhat larger Sparkos opamps. A chip-puller was needed to remove the stock opamps (thanks for the suggestion, Arthur!). I measured heat from the same transformer & heatsink for ~6 hrs w/the V281 under headphone load: 90 degrees F after initial warm-up), an encouraging sign of stability/viability of the Sparkos opamps in the V281
Then today I returned the V281 to the desktop system, where it's both line preamp (an extremely good one) & headphone amp 
_*Note:* I plan to re-measure internal temp w/the V281 in the desktop system, where conditions are somewhat different than in the headphone-only side system where I measured temps initially. In the desktop system, the V281 is my day-to-day preamp & receives signal from the MHDT Labs Orchid, which has 25% lower output voltage than the Audio GD DAC-19 used in the side system _

*Listening: *
When the opamps were first installed, w/zero warmup (listening through the Fidelio X2s), I heard a relatively closed in treble and somewhat elevated (though obviously taut & dynamic) bass.The soundstaging seemed somewhat wider & better defined than usual. The X2s sounded even better than usual, which surprised me. 

Today I heard the V281 w/new opamps at length via speaker system as well as my borrowed Aeolus w/balanced cable -- this after ~12 hours total burn-in. I heard pretty much the same sonic changes from both -- adding up to very encouraging initial sonic impressions. Bear in mind any comparisons to the stock V281 opamps is by memory only:

The treble opened up quite a bit & may have a bit left to go
The mids seem even detailed than usual, though not at all fatiguing...I kept hearing subtle new things in familiar music
Overall, there's greater focus & precision to the sound. Notes seem more distinct & dimensional; it's easier to distinguish voices and instruments in the mix. Resolution seems higher, but the sound remains quite natural. This quality is subtle, but welcome IMO
Backgrounds seem distinctly "blacker" -- surprising, as that's one of the strengths of the V281 to begin with
The biggest changes are in the bass (another strength of the V281): there's a new qualilty of tautness & dynamic precision to bass notes from all instruments. Bass notes really "pop" & seem to have more texture & "roundness" than usual. The V281 had truly fine bass to begin with, but now it's even better. With the Sparkos opamps installed, I'm consistently hearing "planar bass" (w/its  characteristic explosive, dense quality) from speakers & headphones alike
The only fly in the ointment is a slightly "clangy" quality to the upper mids. Not edgy or bright, _per se_--but less resolved & precise than the other frequencies
There are many more hours of burn-in ahead. Based on many comments I've read about these opamps (in connection with a Nord class D amp for which they're an input board option), I expect at least some sonic changes until >100 hrs of burn-in. Some reported significant improvement up to 200 hrs (!). I'm OK w/it; this is how burn-in goes sometimes. I'll post add'l impressions through multiple headphones, incl. a couple planars, after at least 100 hrs burn-in. I may do a full review instead. So far, these Sparkos opamps justify that.

*Net/net:* With little burn-in, the Sparkos opamps managed to produce sonic gains in the V281, something I wouldn've thought impossible (it sounds amazing w/stock opamps). @Geezer Rock 001 told me when he rolled these Sparkos opamps into his Violectric V100, it kicked up the sonics by 10%-15% to his ears; when he rolled them into the V200 (which shares much circuitry w/the V281), he heard  sonic gains of 5% to 7%. I think I'm getting at least a 5% to 7% sonic bump already, with more possibly on the horizon.


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## Ichos

Great and very detailed.
Thank you for sharing and please keep us informed after the burn in time.
Now to be realistic 7-10% improvement isn't that much but it should be enough if someone wants to squeeze out every bit of this already great amp.
You got me tempted....


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## Geezer Rock 001 (Nov 4, 2019)

Phramaboy,
  Great post and outstanding details. One note to all V281/280/200 and 100 owners interested in the Sparkos op amp upgrade. The op amps are located in the "floor" of the amp at the rear. If you have a dac installed in your V series, the dac " deck" is covering the two op amps.

 I do not know the difficulty or risk of loosening the dac deck to access the op amps. I will leave that to the long term V series amps owners to advise you on that aspect.


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## Christoph

@Pharmaboy
Great post, thanks for sharing!
Do i understand it right, the opamps are not soldered and are located in chip sockets, therefore the change is easy to reverse and not a high risk for the guarantee (as soldering would be).

It would be perfect if you could share also a photo where the opamps are located, would this be possible?

Anyway, if the tighter bass response / texture is really noticeable, i'm definitve tempted to try it with my v281.
Please share also further impressions.

Cheers!


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## cj3209

The things we do for questionable and marginal improvements...lol.

I'm guilty as well...so I'll just be quiet...


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## Geezer Rock 001 (Nov 4, 2019)

Christoph said:


> @Pharmaboy
> Great post, thanks for sharing!
> Do i understand it right, the opamps are not soldered and are located in chip sockets, therefore the change is easy to reverse and not a high risk for the guarantee (as soldering would be).
> 
> ...



  They are push in connectors. Check my Sparkos post in this forum for pictures in a V100.


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## Pharmaboy

Christoph said:


> @Pharmaboy
> Great post, thanks for sharing!
> Do i understand it right, the opamps are not soldered and are located in chip sockets, therefore the change is easy to reverse and not a high risk for the guarantee (as soldering would be).
> 
> ...



photos on the way tomorrow (hopefully)


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## Pharmaboy (Nov 5, 2019)

OK, time for before & after photos of V281 & my recent swap to Sparkos SS3602 opamps:

*BEFORE: *Showing position of the 2 stock opamps on input board at rear of the V281. Also note the heat fins associated with a nearby transformer that Fried suggested I measure temps of. Note that I don't have a DAC board in my V281, so have clear/easy access to the entire input board. Also note how little space there is between the stock opamp and the nearby (red) component at the front of the input board. This is why a simple/cheap chip-puller suitable for 8 pin chips is so helpful in removing the stock opamps.






*AFTER:* Showing the Sparkos opamps in place. They fit well in all dimensions and are easy to install.





As mentioned in a previous post, I'm now measuring the temp of those heat fins w/the V281 (top removed) installed in its usual place in full desktop system, where it functions as both line preamp & headphone amp. After 1.5 hours under preamp & headphone loads, the temp is 91 degrees F. That's either .5 degrees higher than my previous measurements in side system--or essentially the same, since this is an analogue/dial type thermometer used in darkrooms, and it's awfully easy to misread.

The DAC in the desktop system is the MHDT Labs Orchid. I thought its output voltage was 2V, but just rechecked the specs. It's 3V!! So I misstated that in a previous post. That means that the Orchid's output voltage is 20% higher than that of the Audio GD DAC-19 I did initial test/temp on (it has 2.5V output). I have no idea if that matters concerning opamp performance.

I'll continue measuring temps all day & will update here if any instability is seen. Not expecting that, though. So far these opamps have been very well behaved.

*SOUND:*
After ~25 hrs burn-in, the sound continues to be very good. The treble and upper midrange continue to open up noticeably through the Aeolus, and the bass remains noteworthy in quality & quantity. It's so easy now to hear every note from the electric bass--and better appreciate the force with which it's plucked, pulled, or stretched.

I'm hearing more apparent detail & resolution--and maybe a bit of remaining clanginess in the upper mids--but the musical/organic nature of the overall sound is unchanged. One of the cuts I use for roughly gauging sonics is a live-in-the-studio performance by Scary Pockets on youtube covering Sheryl Crowe's "All I Want to Do." The group's guitarist, Ryan Lerman, is a gifted colorist; he plays few notes, but whatever he plays highlights & accentuates the harmony or rhythm. I'm hearing his spare, modestly amped playing (never forward in the mix) way better than I remember hearing on the V281 before swapping opamps. Mainly, I'm hearing more clarity, not more brightness.

Of course, all this comparing is by sonic memory (of stock opamp sound)--so all these comments might just be smoke blowing through the hole in my head. We'll see how things sound after 100-200 hrs burn-in, complete w/a switch back to stock opamps for the final test.


----------



## Ichos

Great , respect for your detailed guide and info.


----------



## Christoph

@Pharmaboy
Thanks for the pics and additional infos.
Then the swap is easy as i assumed.
The Sparkos SS3602 is declared especially for a high quality audio performance.
I have to admit, I'm not very familiar with different types of opamps for audio. Was there a specific reason to pick exact this opamp type?
Just for my curiosity, do you know the type of the stock opamps?
Anyway, great post, makes me curious about the upgrade.

Sound comparsions from sonic memory are always a bit difficult when the difference is not big or obvious.
It would be ideal if you could find another v281 to compare them side by side, but i know this is also difficult.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I had 2 reasons to choose the Sparkos SS3602:

I recently became interested in a British class D amp that's getting some love on audio boards (Nord NC500DM). Buyers can choose between Sparkos SS3602 or Sonic Imagery opamps on the input board. I've read many comments about both types and was struck by things people said about the Sparkos, usually describing them as musical, organic/natural, weighty in lower registers (in the way live music is), not bright, etc (all qualities that align w/my sonic preferences). I have yet to get a Nord amp, but I've heard many good things about these Sparkos opamps.
Then a Head-Fi pal, @Geezer Rock 001, told me he'd rolled the SS3602 opamps, 1st in his Violectric V100, and later in his V200. He suggested I try them in the V281. That got me started down this path.
I don't know what the stock opamps are. @Geezer Rock 001 says the ones in his V100 are Texas Instruments, but I can't verify this (the legend on each opamp is miniscule). 

I also had very good results opamp rolling a smaller/older HP amp/preamp, the M Stage Matrix HPA-1. I tried 3 sets of opamps & the 3rd was the charm. It significantly improved the overall sound, making an already musical/pleasing amp even more so. That was my first experience rolling opamps.


----------



## Bonddam

I put my order in for the Sparkos.


----------



## mightytison

As did I for my V280. Looking forward to trying this out. Thanks for all the detailed information!


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## Ichos

When you try it please post impressions and some photos as I am an owner of V280 too.


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## mightytison

Will do


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## Pharmaboy

I have embarrassing news about my opamp-rolling experiment with the V281. In email with Fried Reim, he pointed out I have swapped opamps in the line-out PCB of the V281--not the the input PCB, as I thought I was doing. 

The embarrassing part is this: any sonic changes I've heard through my (very revealing) studio monitors are probably real, but any sonic changes I thought I heard through headphone cannot be real. In short, I got nailed by my own confirmation bias.

So I just attempted to remove the line-out PCB in order to gain access to the input PCB, where I hoped I could put the Sparkos opamps in place of the stock opamps. But this proved impossible:

I lack the tools necessary to remove certain screws & nuts. The screws require a type of screwdriver unknown to me: it's not anything I've ever seen before nor have on hand.
Worse yet, I can visualize enough of the opamps on this lower/input PCB to know the Sparkos opamps would almost certainly not fit there. Their height would probably be OK, but their greater width/depth would not fit in the cramped space on the front-facing side of the stock opamps, where they bump up tightly against another device (2nd picture below).
So I'm done with this experiment. I'll leave the Sparkos in the line-out PCB because I like their sound so far on my studio monitors. 

Still, I know many V281 owners are more interested opamp rolling for the headphone output--something that seems impossible based on what I'm seeing.

I'm very sorry to mislead any of you about opamp rolling the V281...


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## Ichos

Oh , that is bad news indeed.
The only thing  you can do is to stick with the positive point of the whole matter
and enjoy the better sound from the line out.
Still very great of you to admit everything and keep us informed.
I big like from me.


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## Bonddam

I’ll take it apart if anything 10 years installing alarm circuit boards should help me place the opamps in right place. Good thing is top board is using star screws and buying the tool is at car parts store even Home Depot has them. I just hope the opamps have enough room. I’ll post picks.


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## Geezer Rock 001

The Sparkos will fit between the red resistors if you use the 8 pin adapters/extenders. I will post a couple of pictures in a bit. I use them for all of my op amp rolls to keep from damaging the flimsy little spider legs.


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## mightytison

Am I safe in assuming I won't have to worry on the V280 as it doesn't have the additional layer for the line outs. They are still just right on top for mine, correct? I haven't pulled the cover off to look inside of mine yet.


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## Geezer Rock 001

Here is a picture of the Sparkos in adapters in a V100.  The stock op amp is on the right.  The V100 does not have the red resistors on either side of the op amps.  My V200 does have the resistors and with one 8 pin extender It clears with plenty of room for heat dispersal.

 .


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## Geezer Rock 001

Here is a picture of the stock op amps on the bottom and a Sparkos single ( for illustration purposes ) on the top.  The 8 pin adapter that I mentioned is on the right.  Note: the stock and the Sparkos are mounted in one single 8 pin adapter.  I put the gold dot on the stock for my identification of pin one and to log what it is and what it came out of.  Note the tiny vendor marks that Pharamaboy mentioned on the stock op amp on the lower left.


----------



## mightytison

Thanks for the extra info. Any chance you could share the brand and or part number of extender you used? Just want to make sure I get something that I know is solid and will work. Thank you.


----------



## sahmen

To those who have opened their V281s, can you locate any fuse somewhere in the box that one could change/replace in the hopes of enhancing sound quality?  I have been looking at the pictures to see if I can locate one, but I am not having any success.  BTW, I am no expert at these things, but I thought i should ask, just in case.  Thanks.


----------



## phonomat

Pharmaboy said:


> I have embarrassing news about my opamp-rolling experiment with the V281. In email with Fried Reim, he pointed out I have swapped opamps in the line-out PCB of the V281--not the the input PCB, as I thought I was doing.
> 
> The embarrassing part is this: any sonic changes I've heard through my (very revealing) studio monitors are probably real, but any sonic changes I thought I heard through headphone cannot be real. In short, I got nailed by my own confirmation bias.
> 
> ...



Lol. The mind is a powerful thing indeed.


----------



## Bonddam

I need Fried’s email. Trying to find opamp location on v281.


----------



## Geezer Rock 001

Check the picture in post 4409. The signal path for the headphone side is on the lower deck. The top deck is the line out signal path based on Pharmaboy's findings and correspondence.


----------



## Ichos

info@lake-people.de


----------



## Bonddam

This is inside shot. Being I don’t use the preamp I am going to add extenders until it clears.


----------



## Bonddam

I put one in just need to know if it’s in right way. One extender used but I’d say do two because the bottoms of the op amp touches the red thing. I had to use a paper clip to remove stock op amp


----------



## Bonddam (Nov 10, 2019)

In the pic I painted the indent white to remember placement.


----------



## Bonddam

Is indent pin one? Is gold corner on op amp pin one?


----------



## Bonddam

123356 count it out. It WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t know if it changed anything. Kinda don’t remember. The preamp has enough clearance to go back on


----------



## Bonddam

123356 count it out. It WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t know if it changed anything. Kinda don’t remember. The preamp has enough clearance to go back on


----------



## Bonddam (Nov 10, 2019)

Tools used all husky brand from Home Depot.  Only one support arm didn’t go back in, not needed as there is no pressure issues unless it is part of a ground system I’ll never know as I don’t use preamp as I have separate system for my two channel setup.


----------



## Bonddam

It sounds good using Diana v2 got good bass midrange and treble. Don’t ask for imaging or soundstage as I listen to edm off iTunes.


----------



## Christoph

@Bonddam 
Nice idea of stacking the extenders.
The top extender belongs to the opamp, the bottom is soldered on the v281 PCB, the two in the middle you have added.

However you have now 3 points of contact without solder per pin, asking me if this could be reduced to 1 pin.

Nevertheless, please post your impressions about the mod, well done.


----------



## Bonddam

Christoph said:


> @Bonddam
> Nice idea of stacking the extenders.
> The top extender belongs to the opamp, the bottom is soldered on the v281 PCB, the two in the middle you have added.
> 
> ...


I added one extender and no more. The extender is gold which was $1.90 for 2. I figure gold is better conductor. The op amp pins are gold if I remember. This of course voids warranty and do it at your own risk. Sound is amazing I’d hate be told to listen to it stock. I’ve only listened hour and  a half so not long enough to see or hear any issues.


----------



## Christoph

I see, its only one extender. The pic was misleading when i saw it in small size on my mobile.
Gold is not used, because its a better conductor, copper or silver are better conductors for example.
The only reason Gold is used that it doesn't tend to oxidation which would cause a contact resistance.

Maybe i wait until my warranty is expired, but a nice easy to apply mod.


----------



## Geezer Rock 001

Sparkos roll update.

One V281 and one V 280 owner rolled them in their lower deck signal path. Both rolls produced more heat than either owner remembered when the stock op amps were in. There was a positive sonic change but the risk of damage was not warranted at this point.

I apologize for hijacking the V281 thread with my enthusiasm for my assumption that what worked in a V200 would work in a V280/281.

I will go back to under the rock where the V200 people live.

 Sorry!


----------



## Christoph

Geezer Rock 001 said:


> Sparkos roll update.
> 
> One V281 and one V 280 owner rolled them in their lower deck signal path. Both rolls produced more heat than either owner remembered when the stock op amps were in. There was a positive sonic change but the risk of damage was not warranted at this point.
> 
> ...



No need to apologize 
One question before you hide under the mentioned rock:

Did you measure the temperature (if yes, where?),
or was this a subjective impression?


----------



## Geezer Rock 001 (Nov 13, 2019)

The V280 and V281 owners can give you their impressions.

 Pharamboy installed his in the line out signal path. He did an excellent temperature study with no appreciable increases. But that was on the top deck of the amp.

 I did a test yesterday with a thermometer on the top cover of a V200. Three hours at idle and then 3 1/2 hours at load the temperature went from 68°F to 82°F and felt cool to my fingers. The temperature felt the same in all area of the top cover.


----------



## Bonddam

I measured by touch. With the stock op back in it feels a little warm. When I had Sparkos in at idle it got really warm. Being that Fried has never measured a op roll to give us fact that this increase won't hurt the amp, I'm not going to be the guinea pig who does. It's a shame because there was a difference in sound that I liked.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

Geezer Rock 001 said:


> Sparkos roll update.
> 
> One V281 and one V 280 owner rolled them in their lower deck signal path. Both rolls produced more heat than either owner remembered when the stock op amps were in. There was a positive sonic change but the risk of damage was not warranted at this point.
> 
> ...


@Pharmaboy and @Geezer Rock 001, and to all others contributing to this topic of op-amp rolling: Thank you so much for all your ideas and efforts, and in particular for sharing your experiences in as cautious a way as is needed.

I'd like to put in my "less than 1 cent". Out of mere speculation, I think

that due to the higher power dissipation of the Sparkos op-amps,
one might find oneself considering to beef up the power transformers in order to make the new op-amps really shine,
which in turn might lead to an even higher power dissipation and temperature rise inside the V281 case which (at least mine) has no vents at the top.
So op-amp rolling might lead us towards a vicious circle in this instance.

Myself, I am so very happy with the V281 as-is.


----------



## sahmen

111MilesToGo said:


> @Pharmaboy and @Geezer Rock 001, and to all others contributing to this topic of op-amp rolling: Thank you so much for all your ideas and efforts, and in particular for sharing your experiences in as cautious a way as is needed.
> 
> 
> Myself, I am so very happy with the V281 as-is.



And here's my own less than 1 half, errr, less than 1 quarter of a cent : "me too"


----------



## Geezer Rock 001

sahmen said:


> And here's my own less than 1 half, errr, less than 1 quarter of a cent : "me too"


  The results in the V100 were stunning.  The results in the V200 were significant to my ears.  That is why I tempted my friend Pharmaboy with it.

With the cost of a V281 in the equation, the additional heat is not worth the risk until someone can determine how much heat is too much heat. 

Back to the rock pile for me. I will be sticking with the V100 and the Sparkos roll.


----------



## Christoph

> With the cost of a V281 in the equation, the additional heat is not worth the risk until someone can determine how much heat is too much heat.



Fully agree.
Upgrading the heat sinks might be more difficult and to get the additional heat out of the enclosure without ventilation slits or holes. And I don't want to cut the lid for this.

However, the exact temperature increase would be interesting. Pharmaboy measured 90°C at the heatsink of the stock version in idle. His measurements after the opamp rolling are not useable as the opamps on the lower deck were not changed.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Nov 16, 2019)

Geezer Rock 001 said:


> The results in the V100 were stunning.  The results in the V200 were significant to my ears.  That is why I tempted my friend Pharmaboy with it.
> 
> With the cost of a V281 in the equation, the additional heat is not worth the risk until someone can determine how much heat is too much heat.
> 
> Back to the rock pile for me. I will be sticking with the V100 and the Sparkos roll.



No rock pile at all. V100 and V200 are legends and the foundation of today's LP amps, even if the performance jumps don't tell because they are huge and designs improved a lot over time. Look how far everything came, up until the Niimbus line.


----------



## 3083joe

Hey guys. I just have a question. I tried using my v281 as preamp and is unbalanced in sound. Concentrated on the right side. 

balance on front is level and dip switches on back are level, any thoughts. Purchased in 2016 but never used as preamp just HPA

thanks. joe


----------



## Pharmaboy

3083joe said:


> Hey guys. I just have a question. I tried using my v281 as preamp and is unbalanced in sound. Concentrated on the right side.
> 
> balance on front is level and dip switches on back are level, any thoughts. Purchased in 2016 but never used as preamp just HPA
> 
> thanks. joe



Can we assume you did all the logical stuff already--ie, unplugging/replugging the interconnect from V281 to next device downstream? Make sure the balance in front is actually working (vs somehow not working properly)?

Beyond the simple stuff, I can only think of 4 possibilities:

There's something wrong w/either the interconnect coming out of the V281, or a channel imbalance in the next device downstream (ie, amp, integrated amp, powered speaker pair, etc). The latter is possible if the next device has its own balance controls
There's something wrong w/either the interconnect coming into the V281, or a channel imbalance in the next device upstream (ie, DAC). That's unlikely, since you would've heard that via headphones
There's a malfunction of the V281's line-out function
Or for some reasons, the internal/line-out dipswitches (entirely separate from the ones on the back, which control headphones only) are not in alignment.
I know it's a PITA, and you need a 3.0mm hex wrench to do it, but this means removing the top cover and checking the 2 internal dipswitches. From pg-22 of the V281 manual:

"*LINE-OUTPUT LEVEL*
can be set by means of internal DIP switches located on the line-out circuit board. See page 33 for further details.

Generally, the level at the unbalanced output will equal the input level in pre-fader mode, or with the level control set fully clockwise in post-fader mode. By means of the DIP switches however, relative attenuation/gain can be set to –12, -6, 0, +6 or +12 dB.
Please note that output level at the balanced output is generally +6 dB higher than at the unbalanced output."​The 4th scenario is pretty unlikely, too. But you wouldn't know unless you checked.


----------



## sahmen

Fegefeuer said:


> No rock pile at all. V100 and V200 are legends and the foundation of today's LP amps, even if the performance jumps don't tell because they are huge and designs improved a lot over time. Look how far everything came, up until the Niimbus line.


So now, by all rough estimates, what is the delta of sq/performance between the niimbus line and the v281, formulated as carefully as one can in words? I have always thought of the Niimbus as something outside my budget range, at least for purposes of making any instant purchase, but, like almost every component in this hobby, the purchase of the niimbus as a long term goal is always doable.  i have been wondering for some time now, whether I should place the niimbus on my mid-to-longterm to-buy list, and have not been able to make a firm decision about it, which is why I need a clearly formulated sense of just what the delta in performance and SQ is... It is difficult to decide, since I already enjoy my v281, both as an HPA, and a preamp, not to mention also enjoying the "safe" ignorance of not knowing what I am missing, not having ever heard a niimbus.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Nov 16, 2019)

It will take a few weeks until I can give you more info in how the Niimbus ascends from the V281 but from tonality alone the Niimbus distinguishes itself as being more liquid unlike the more square V281 and is overall more refined, especially in the treble and bass. The amazing feat of the US4+ is how it can be both powerful, visceral, hard hitting and yet effortless and composed at all times, especially in the treble. I never heard the HD 800 so good before (on a solid state) and so detached from its reputation of being dry and square.

Now the HD800 was great and powerful from the V281 already of course, sure: Extension to both sides, fast, tactile transients, grand soundstage great punch and kick which the HD800 can do very well.
The *US4+ goes further than here* though and this is where the *key difference* comes into play. I could talk about bass lines, breath, the smacking of lips and the tiniest details but that's something for another time. *Let me just mention the most important feat that the US4+ brings to the table*:

Where the V281 has a slight inner warmth at hand to support its strong technical foundation and presentation, the Niimbus "counters" with liquidness from its very core. This does not mean the following: soft, warm, subdued, rolled off, smearing or even forgiving. It's simply effortless, it leaves no gaps, it simply flows and runs. I think Bruce Lee would understand me best right now.
The V281 tries to overachieve starts and stops like the best solid states, the US4+ knows better how to transition (or let's say dance) from one move to the next, yet never blur at all or decay unnaturally. 

To me that's the most important difference.


----------



## sahmen

Fegefeuer said:


> It will take a few weeks until I can give you more info in how the Niimbus ascends from the V281 but from tonality alone the Niimbus distinguishes itself as being more liquid unlike the more square V281 and is overall more refined, especially in the treble and bass. The amazing feat of the US4+ is how it can be both powerful, visceral, hard hitting and yet effortless and composed at all times, especially in the treble. I never heard the HD 800 so good before (on a solid state) and so detached from its reputation of being dry and square.
> 
> Now the HD800 was great and powerful from the V281 already of course, sure: Extension to both sides, fast, tactile transients, grand soundstage great punch and kick which the HD800 can do very well.
> The *US4+ goes further than here* though and this is where the *key difference* comes into play. I could talk about bass lines, breath, the smacking of lips and the tiniest details but that's something for another time. *Let me just mention the most important feat that the US4+ brings to the table*:
> ...


Now that's what I call a mouthwatering presentation of an HPA, especially, since you mention the "liquidity" of the niimbus US4+ more than once. The pun couldn't be more appropriate.  At any rate, you have almost single handedly persuaded me to place the US4+ on my to-buy list, as my end-game HPA. Now I can't wait to hear how my HD800, my Audeze LCD-4, LCDi4, and LCD-X, not to mention my Hifiman he-1000SE might all sound on the US4+. Admittedly, I have considered other options before in pondering end-game HPAs, but it now appears that the US4+ is a strong, unavoidable contender, if not the only contender.  Ironically, it is the fact I already have and know the v281's performance so well, which makes the US4+ so irresistibly attractive. So talking about "mouthwatering,"  I would like to hear more about the US4+, but when you get the chance to do more listening to nail down the differences even more.  No rush necessary. I have a lot of time to strategize about how to get the US4+.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Nov 16, 2019)

Do you have the Yggdrasil Analog 2? My absolute dream combo as of right now would be PI2AES/Lynx AES -> Yggdrasil Analog 2 -> US4+.

Yeah, obviously I've also looked at other amps but the vast requirement differences of my headphone collection (like yours) don't fit in with most amps on the basis of superseding the V281's qualities. The only amp that I would really consider would be a DNA Stellaris but that's simply impossible and insecure from a European perspective. Huge customs bill, probably warranty issues, sending back and forth (in the worst case of course). A nightmare. Other than that none other than the US4+. Or I would go passive preamp and a high gain First Watt, but then I'd miss the HD800 and the 650. Impossible. That's why I will stay here.

Anyway, being a refined V281 is too simple of a description, it could serve as a warning though not to expect universes in difference. There's a saying by Voltaire though: "le mieux est l'ennemi du bien" meaning the best is the enemy of good and it never applied so well like here. Most of the users that are still active in this thread have their V281 for years and hold it very dear for its qualities:

The V281 has a very black background, strong macro- and microdynamics, gets you involved with the music and invites you deep into it. It's the tiniest differences, refinements and the very drive of the US4+ where the differences are. Where the V281 simply wants to punch through by all means, the US4+ knows how to conserve its energy and use of it through better technique.
The US4+ is a seasoned veteran, a silver shield of Alexanders Army, the finest of all Hoplites, the V281 is a young hoplite who while highly trained, chosen and disciplined by those very silver shields, is not on the same rank because he has yet reach the experience, the same finesse and the awareness of the veteran.


----------



## sahmen

Yes, I have the Yggy A2, and I have been pairing it with the V281 for a long time.  I have called the pairing my "reference" system (especially since they were both servicing my main HT 2.1/5.1/7. speaker system).  I do not have the US4+ yet, but I already feel the needle moving toward it...  So to Voltaire's "le mieux est l'ennemi du bien,"  I feel like responding "le mieux vaut bien la peine," exclusively in hommage to the US4+, of course


----------



## Fegefeuer

That's a terrific system already. V281 hugely rewards DACs and scales off them.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> Yes, I have the Yggy A2, and I have been pairing it with the V281 for a long time.  I have called the pairing my "reference" system (especially since they were both servicing my main HT 2.1/5.1/7. speaker system).  I do not have the US4+ yet, but I already feel the needle moving toward it...  So to Voltaire's "le mieux est l'ennemi du bien,"  I feel like responding "le mieux vaut bien la peine," exclusively in hommage to the US4+, of course



Great quotations! 

I couldn't do without my V281. I have a number of other amps, but the V281 stands above all others, both as preamp (it's my day-to-day preamp) and headphone amp (same comment). I paired it with an NOS DAC (MHDT Labs Orchid), which is a very good match, indeed. An arranged marriage that became a love match...

My only doubt regarding your second quote ... (I google-translated it to French for the occasion): 
"Le meilleur aujourd'hui est juste moyen l'année prochaine"

(an idea that hovers over all my obsessive audio moves)


----------



## 3083joe

Pharmaboy said:


> Can we assume you did all the logical stuff already--ie, unplugging/replugging the interconnect from V281 to next device downstream? Make sure the balance in front is actually working (vs somehow not working properly)?
> 
> Beyond the simple stuff, I can only think of 4 possibilities:
> 
> ...




Thanks for all this. 
The interconnects in and out are no problem as my classe preamp is balanced coming out on sound.  
Not issue with amp as again it’s balanced in sound as well. Only time problem occurs is when I swap the v281into the mix. 
Balance control on front does work and is centered. 

so with that I’m going to open it up and see what those dip switches look like. 
Thanks. 
Joe


----------



## RobertSM

3083joe said:


> Thanks for all this.
> The interconnects in and out are no problem as my classe preamp is balanced coming out on sound.
> Not issue with amp as again it’s balanced in sound as well. Only time problem occurs is when I swap the v281into the mix.
> Balance control on front does work and is centered.
> ...



I was just looking at your signature line and the gear you're running.

I wonder if your problem is related to your turntable and phono pre. Is it possible that the phono out impedance isn't matched for V281 input?


----------



## Pharmaboy

3083joe said:


> Thanks for all this.
> The interconnects in and out are no problem as my classe preamp is balanced coming out on sound.
> Not issue with amp as again it’s balanced in sound as well. Only time problem occurs is when I swap the v281into the mix.
> Balance control on front does work and is centered.
> ...



Good luck w/internals.

By any chance, do you also have the RCA output pair from V281 engaged/going to something else? If yes, the manual advises against running both balanced and single-ended outputs simultaneously.

Like other suggestions, this is unlikely to be the culprit. Just running down all the possibilities...


----------



## ken6217

Has anyone heard or own a V281 Abyss 1266 combo? 

I was thinking of complimenting my Empyrean with this but wanted to get feedback on how it sound together. Also can the V281 drive the the 1266 to its potential.


----------



## Bonddam

ken6217 said:


> Has anyone heard or own a V281 Abyss 1266 combo?
> 
> I was thinking of complimenting my Empyrean with this but wanted to get feedback on how it sound together. Also can the V281 drive the the 1266 to its potential.


I've got all three. How much you gonna pay me for the info?


----------



## Bonddam

It sounds good. The hardest thing was setting up the Abyss I spent a good number of hours finding best fit and sound. As far as potential it does drive it. One thing you notice is low end on the Abyss the detail imaging soundstage its all there well it should for 5 g's. I guess you can compliment the Empyrean, but the honeymoon last a long time, I'm trying to put the Empy's back on but no luck.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> I've got all three. How much you gonna pay me for the info?



Hmmmm. Well I can give you my mother in law. Since were both in Jersey, I can drive her there.  She’s living with us now. Good cook but a royal pain in the ass.


----------



## Bonddam

Hmmm. Naaaaa I've got the old ball and chain.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Ken6217, didn't you get yourself a US4+?


----------



## project86

Quick note - V281 will be on sale for Black Friday thru Cyber Monday for $1699. That's a great deal imho.  

Also V280 and V200 Anniversary both on sale, as well as some Lake People gear (and Matrix, and Keces).


----------



## ken6217

If anyone is interested, I received this Black Friday sales announcement from Violectric.

https://mailchi.mp/d82e06d13f81/black-friday-cyber-monday-audio-gear


----------



## RobertSM (Dec 1, 2019)

Loving my V281 more than ever. I opened my amp up per owners manual yesterday and added 12 db to the line outputs. Just what I needed! More horsepower added to the overall system. I also use my V281 as a 2-channel preamp so this new muscle is welcomed. More life and energy to the system.  Once again V281 proves to be incredibly flexible and nearly limitless.


----------



## phonomat (Dec 2, 2019)

RobertSM said:


> Loving my V281 more than ever. I opened my amp up per owners manual yesterday and added 12 db to the line outputs. Just what I needed! More horsepower added to the overall system. I also use my V281 as a 2-channel preamp so this new muscle is welcomed. More life and energy to the system.  Once again V281 proves to be incredibly flexible and nearly limitless.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it recommended by Violectric for the volume knob to be situated at 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock or something at a comfortable listening volume for best sound?
Like you, I also use it as a preamp for my Genelec monitors, and I was about to open the case and do the exact opposite, lol. With headphones, I hardly get to go over 9 o'clock, and I'm on -16 already. If anything, I feel this beast is grossly overpowered for my system (which can be remedied, of course).

Edit: Or do you just listen very, very loudly?


----------



## RobertSM

phonomat said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it recommended by Violectric for the volume knob to be situated at 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock or something at a comfortable listening volume for best sound?
> Like you, I also use it as a preamp for my Genelec monitors, and I was about to open the case and do the exact opposite, lol. With headphones, I hardly get to go over 9 o'clock, and I'm on -16 already. If anything, I feel this beast is grossly overpowered for my system (which can be remedied, of course).
> 
> Edit: Or do you just listen very, very loudly?



I needed the 12 db of gain mostly due to the fact that I'm not listening to and playing alot of vinyl. My tube phono preamp is set to a fixed 40 db of gain. It has no volume knob just a simple on/off switch. I run this signal into the V281 RCA inputs, then like you into a pair of Genelec 8350a monitors. So yes, I needed and welcomed the extra muscle.

In terms of headphone listening, this is all dialed in with pre-gain via DIP switches on the back of V281. That is just dependent on that headphones you typically use. For me I usually use a pair of Sennheiser HD650s in balanced mode through V281 XLR. I think these headphones, though modest, punch way above their weight class.

As with anything I think all the customization on does with their system is of course strictly dependent upon their preferences and unique system.


----------



## Pharmaboy

phonomat said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it recommended by Violectric for the volume knob to be situated at 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock or something at a comfortable listening volume for best sound?
> Like you, I also use it as a preamp for my Genelec monitors, and I was about to open the case and do the exact opposite, lol. With headphones, I hardly get to go over 9 o'clock, and I'm on -16 already. If anything, I feel this beast is grossly overpowered for my system (which can be remedied, of course).
> 
> Edit: Or do you just listen very, very loudly?



I used my V281 both as preamp (for amp + passive studio monitors) and for headphones. I have the dip-switches on the back dialed in for -12 dB gain on headphones. That may seem low, but my DAC outputs nearly 3volts, which raises gain at the headphones quite a bit. Even with -12 dB gain on headphones, most of my listening is in the 9:30-10:30 range.

I opened the case and dialed in the same -12 dB gain on the line-out. That works pretty well...when I really crank the speakers, I can get that big pot almost up to 12:00.

The I/O gain flexibility of the V281 has saved my ass since day-1.

I'm lusting after a new/different HP amp/preamp that (if I get one) will be used as both preamp & HP amp. But it has no gain adjustments, and the amp is described as "hot" (30 dB overall gain)...so the volume pot would probably be 7:00-8:00AM. Maybe that amp/preamp probably isn't a wise idea.


----------



## RobertSM

Pharmaboy said:


> I used my V281 both as preamp (for amp + passive studio monitors) and for headphones. I have the dip-switches on the back dialed in for -12 dB gain on headphones. That may seem low, but my DAC outputs nearly 3volts, which raises gain at the headphones quite a bit. Even with -12 dB gain on headphones, most of my listening is in the 9:30-10:30 range.
> 
> I opened the case and dialed in the same -12 dB gain on the line-out. That works pretty well...when I really crank the speakers, I can get that big pot almost up to 12:00.
> 
> ...



I agree. I don't really know if any manufacturers take into account the needs of users as much as Violectric/Lake People does. I mean they are extremely well designed and thought out products.

A few months ago when I was corresponding with Fried he was telling me about a new chip from Asahi Kasei that he was very very excited about. This was the reason the Niimbus DAC was being delayed. He was already showing the Niimbus DAC at shows but hadn't gone into production yet. Apparently AK had sent him a truly stunning and groundbreaking prototype DAC chip that they were working on. Fried told me via email, this prototype chip was so impressive to him that he totally halted the release of the Niimbus DAC that was scheduled to go into production. He mentioned that the new chip he had from AK was going to be used for a new product that he was just developing. It was to be a DAC and Preamp. Of course I was excited and I thought I'd better save my money and hold tight before I upgraded. I can't think of any other manufacturers that offer the flexibility that Fried does with his products. I'm pretty excited and just waiting to see that Lake People have up their sleeves.


----------



## RobertSM

Ok, I just reread the email with Fried. He called this chip the AK 4499 and was floored because of what this chip was going to allow him to do and design. He said the chip had a theoretical dynamic range of 180 db!


----------



## Pharmaboy

Interesting story about the AKM chip. Remarkable that Fried would pause a launch to consider incorporating the new chip (sometimes it pays to be a company of manageable size).

I can't say enough positive things about the way I've been treated re service/technical issues by Arthur & by Fried himself. This is a class company (and their products please me to no end).

PS: do human beings even have 180 dB of hearing perception? That stat is insane!


----------



## Ichos

Let me chime in to also add that my experience communicating with Fried is top notch.
It is remarkable how easy is to discuss with the CEO of Lake people.


----------



## phonomat

Yeah, top guy and really approachable.


----------



## Viszla

Did someone use DAP like Sony WM1A direkt to HPA V281?


----------



## Anouk

Hi everyone, Planning to build a new system and need a balanced headphone amp. I already would have a dac so would not need all the extra i/o just xlr in and 4pin xlr headphone amp. So i guess this amp would be overkill for my situation. But which one in their lineup would then work best? So many choices...
Thanks in advance for any info since I am new to this brand.
Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hi, What do you guys think of the below frequency reports/roll off reported in the below thread?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...surements-of-violectric-hpa-v281-hp-amp.9331/


----------



## Ichos

You should check V280 or Lake people RS 08.


----------



## sahmen (Dec 17, 2019)

Anouk said:


> Hi, What do you guys think of the below frequency reports/roll off reported in the below thread?
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...surements-of-violectric-hpa-v281-hp-amp.9331/


Nothing! I completely ignore everything I see or hear from the site, and never visit it. But I am just speaking for myself, and my attempt to protect my own sanity. Your mileage and those of other enthusiasts may vary.

Full disclosure:  I never clicked the link you posted, and that I guess, should be expected.

Btw if I want measurements, I shall always contact Fried. I have more confidence in whatever he will have to say, in this particular case.


----------



## Ichos

V280/V281 is one of the few TOTL ss amps that does everything right.


----------



## 13713

Ichos said:


> V280/V281 is one of the few TOTL ss amps that does everything right.



I have had this setup since 2015. No lies detected.


----------



## zhgutov

Anouk said:


> Hi, What do you guys think of the below frequency reports/roll off reported in the below thread?
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...surements-of-violectric-hpa-v281-hp-amp.9331/



This roll off corresponds to the relay-based version only (headphone output only).
Other versions have flat response.

I have a version with flat response and tried to simulate such roll off with parametric equalizer.
Cannot notice any difference in headphones.

This is frequency response of V281 with ALPS RK27 (standard version):


----------



## 111MilesToGo

Anouk said:


> Hi, What do you guys think of the below frequency reports/roll off reported in the below thread?
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...surements-of-violectric-hpa-v281-hp-amp.9331/





sahmen said:


> Nothing! I completely ignore everything I see or hear from the site, and never visit it. But I am just speaking for myself, and my attempt to protect my own sanity. Your mileage and those of other enthusiasts may vary.
> 
> Full disclosure:  I never clicked the link you posted, and that I guess, should be expected.
> 
> Btw if I want measurements, I shall always contact Fried. I have more confidence in whatever he will have to say, in this particular case.





Ichos said:


> V280/V281 is one of the few TOTL ss amps that does everything right.





13713 said:


> I have had this setup since 2015. No lies detected.





zhgutov said:


> This roll off corresponds to the relay-based version only (headphone output only).
> Other versions have flat response.
> 
> I have a version with flat response and tried to simulate such roll off with parametric equalizer.
> ...


I just would like to point out that Fried Reim has been dealing with those measurements, starting at post #85 on that thread:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...f-violectric-hpa-v281-hp-amp.9331/post-246798

I own the V281 with relay stepped attenuator, and I admit to have clicked on that link ...


----------



## 111MilesToGo

111MilesToGo said:


> I just would like to point out that Fried Reim has been dealing with those measurements, starting at post #85 on that thread:
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...f-violectric-hpa-v281-hp-amp.9331/post-246798
> 
> I own the V281 with relay stepped attenuator, and I admit to have clicked on that link ...


Oh, I forgot to insert a @fdg in that post. Cheers!


----------



## RobertSM (Dec 18, 2019)

I read that thread on the other forum...

Those poor souls have it all wrong. In my humble opinion, the gear is a vehicle to enjoy the music. I worry not about specs and measurements. I respect and choose to spend my money on products and designs that I trust. As a happy owner of 2 peices of Violectric/Lake People gear(DAC V850 and HPA V281). I am a believer in what my ears hear, not on what my eyes read on a graph.

With that said, I am looking forward to and already setting aside my money to budget for the new Niimbus DAC/Preamp that is being designed. I will always put my money and trust into what I believe in. And I believe in Fried and his products.

Now, that I've said my piece, I have some new John Lee Hooker 180 gram vinyl that I shall listen to. And I will listen via V281 acting at my preamp.

Have a great night folks.


----------



## Ichos

Another story to prove how ASR is manipulating measurements.
It is already known ( for those that have their eyes wide open ) that this guy's are not to be trusted.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Dec 19, 2019)

Well, at least it got a recommendation.  Let zealots enjoy their SINAD and you enjoy your V281. And expect many more good things to come over the next years.


----------



## Ichos

Yeap right now i am enjoying the V280 with my new Focal toy....


----------



## Fegefeuer

Which Focal did you get?


----------



## Ichos

The Clear pro edition.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Was the Clear ever revised? I remember reading about the diaphragm bottoming out during stronger bass sections, don't know if it happened at healthy listening levels.


----------



## Ichos (Dec 19, 2019)

I don't know about revisions but there was surely some early faulty units.
I have demoed one about one and a half year ago which was one of the first batches that the official
dealer had at his disposal and i found that the headphone was exhibiting some kind of mid - high frequency ringing when i was
raising the volume but at safe listening levels.
This is not happening with the unit i have now.
As for bass i am listening now at the Ozone percussion group loud really loud and my only comment is
that this headphone slams and slams very hard without side effects except my hearing loss!

Edit  - testing with Kodo , same thing.


----------



## Viszla

New Toy. Today I drive the 281 with Sony Wm1A. Next Year i ‚m Looking for a new DAC!


----------



## Luke Thomas

I’m back to using my 280 again. Took some time off while using easy to drive headphones.  I was just curious as to what setting is popular in regards to the db +16 thru -16 on the back of the amp.  ( with the Sennheiser 800s )
Thx


----------



## Ichos

When I owned the HD800S with the balanced out I was using 0db with single ended in and -6db with balanced in.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Ichos said:


> When I owned the HD800S with the balanced out I was using 0db with single ended in and -6db with balanced in.


 I was just questimating that +16. Would be the way to go since the 800s are power hungry.  Thanks


----------



## Ichos

No way!!!
The amp is very powerful and the HD800 are not power hungry.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Ichos said:


> No way!!!
> The amp is very powerful and the HD800 are not power hungry.[/QUOTE
> Thx will try all options


----------



## 111MilesToGo

Luke Thomas said:


> I’m back to using my 280 again. Took some time off while using easy to drive headphones.  I was just curious as to what setting is popular in regards to the db +16 thru -16 on the back of the amp.  ( with the Sennheiser 800s )
> Thx





Ichos said:


> When I owned the HD800S with the balanced out I was using 0db with single ended in and -6db with balanced in.





Luke Thomas said:


> Thx will try all options


I have -6dB and the V281 volume pot at 10–11 o‘clock with my setup: Hugo 2 single-ended fixed-volume output (which is a bit hot at 3 Volts) into V281 RCA, then balanced out to HD800S.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Luke Thomas said:


> I’m back to using my 280 again. Took some time off while using easy to drive headphones.  I was just curious as to what setting is popular in regards to the db +16 thru -16 on the back of the amp.  ( with the Sennheiser 800s )
> Thx



I have -12 dB on both the back dipswitches for the headphone output. This puts me between 10 - 11:30 o'clock on that big pot/dial for all my headphones, from the most efficient to least efficient (ZMF Ori, a real power hog). I seriously doubt an HD800S takes more power than the Ori's Fostex planar driver.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Thx some have said it take a powerful amp, to drive the


Pharmaboy said:


> I have -12 dB on both the back dipswitches for the headphone output. This puts me between 10 - 11:30 o'clock on that big pot/dial for all my headphones, from the most efficient to least efficient (ZMF Ori, a real power hog). I seriously doubt an HD800S takes more power than the Ori's Fostex planar driver.


Thanks. I thought the settings should be +12 for hard to drive and - 12 for easy to drive headphones. Looks like the best thing to do is play with all settings


----------



## Fegefeuer

+12 is too much indeed. You can easily enjoy -14db. V281 has tons of voltage swing waiting for the HD 800, don't worry about that aspect.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Thx above. Would using single ended vs balance cable change your thought.
Also do we like a balanced cable out of the 280 ?  Sorry for the repeat but worthy of rehashing from time to time


----------



## Fegefeuer

Definitely go balanced to make use of all 4 amps inside.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Fegefeuer said:


> Definitely go balanced to make use of all 4 amps inside.


Thx for the input. One more question lol.
My new digital player ibasso 160 dap has a 4.4 balanced output option. Should I get a cable, that is 4.4 to  xlr so I can input a so called balanced signal into the back of the 280 amp?


----------



## Fegefeuer

No, use the dedicated line out. Avoid possible double amping, impedance issues and other shenanigans.

Don't worry about not going full balanced at all.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Both are dedicated line out. One non balanced, one balanced.


----------



## Ichos

If we are talking about the DX160 then it is not.
The 4.4mm out is ONLY headphone balanced out and the 3.5mm out is shared headphone/line out and spdif out.


----------



## Super Angulon (Dec 29, 2019)

I'm going to connect my AK SP1000 to V281 to drive my HD800s. Anybody knows if there is a difference sound-wise between 3.5SE to RCA and 3.5SE to XLR cable?


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Dec 29, 2019)

I don't think there is a way to get a 3.5 balanced connection.

You're going to need a 2.5 to XLR cable. Not sure if that is a standard item or not.


----------



## Super Angulon

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't think there is a way to get a 3.5 balanced connection.
> 
> You're going to need a 2.5 to XLR cable. Not sure if that is a standard item or not.



I mean 3.5mm SE output from SP1000


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Super Angulon said:


> I mean 3.5mm SE output from SP1000



I know and that doesn't make sense given XLR is for balanced connections.


----------



## Super Angulon

gimmeheadroom said:


> I know and that doesn't make sense given XLR is for balanced connections.



You mean no need for XLR in this case?


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Dec 29, 2019)

Super Angulon said:


> You mean no need for XLR in this case?



Your DAP has a 2.5mm balanced output. If your amp has balanced input then yeah, you should have somebody make up a cable if it isn't a stock item.

If your amp doesn't have balanced input then this is not an option. 

Just checked, it does have balanced input. To reduce noise it will help to have as much drive as you can get, especially from a DAP. So yeah, find a 2.5mm to 2xXLR female or have somebody make one for you.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I'm sorry, it looks like the XLR plugs should be female, not male. In my defense, I've been up all night but I'm proud to say I have not tripped over a single empty beer bottle


----------



## gimmeheadroom

double post


----------



## S Crowther

gimmeheadroom said:


> Your DAP has a 2.5mm balanced output. If your amp has balanced input then yeah, you should have somebody make up a cable if it isn't a stock item.
> 
> If your amp doesn't have balanced input then this is not an option.
> 
> Just checked, it does have balanced input. To reduce noise it will help to have as much drive as you can get, especially from a DAP. So yeah, find a 2.5mm to 2xXLR female or have somebody make one for you.


I don't think it will work. The output from the AK is not grounded. AK used to sell a grounded cable using both outputs from the AK and terminated in a pair of RCA connectors to connect to the amp.
I have one that was made for me in the UK.


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> I'm sorry, it looks like the XLR plugs should be female, not male. In my defense, I've been up all night but I'm proud to say I have not tripped over a single empty beer bottle



I would be proud of that, too.

IMO it's better to trip over empty beer bottles than full beer bottles. And if one does this while wearing X2s...it may get ugly.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Hey guys, been wondering if theres a way to get the v281 new or is used the only way at this point?
also, alternatively, despite the v281 being fantastic, are there very close alternatives to this amp that would be worthy ?


----------



## Bonddam

Tsukuyomi said:


> Hey guys, been wondering if theres a way to get the v281 new or is used the only way at this point?
> also, alternatively, despite the v281 being fantastic, are there very close alternatives to this amp that would be worthy ?


The Headamp gs-x mini is around $1800 brand new. It's made to order so a few weeks to get one but well worth it. It as 4 watts around 50 ohms so powers all my headphones even the He6se with no problem.


----------



## Ichos

Tsukuyomi said:


> Hey guys, been wondering if theres a way to get the v281 new or is used the only way at this point?
> also, alternatively, despite the v281 being fantastic, are there very close alternatives to this amp that would be worthy ?



The V281 is currently being produced so no problems to buy a new one.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/violectric_hpa_v281_black.htm
Isn't any retailer in Canada?


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Tsukuyomi said:


> Hey guys, been wondering if theres a way to get the v281 new or is used the only way at this point?
> also, alternatively, despite the v281 being fantastic, are there very close alternatives to this amp that would be worthy ?


New V281’s can be found here:
https://power-holdings-inc.com/Violectric-c34633356
Too bad you missed out on the Black Friday  sale when the base model price was $1699! That said, the V281 is such a robust and well built product that I wouldn’t hesitate much before buying one used from an established trader. Plus the faceplate is user-replaceable if its damaged. 
I’ve heard good things about the GS-X mini but I’ve also seen folks rate the (upgraded) V281 above the original GS-X mk2. So I’d be surprised if the mini beats out the V281, but I’d love to hear them and compare.


----------



## Ichos

@Tsukuyomi

If you don't need the preamp function then the V280 is the same sounding amp (a little less power) with a better price.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Ichos said:


> The V281 is currently being produced so no problems to buy a new one.
> https://www.thomann.de/gb/violectric_hpa_v281_black.htm
> Isn't any retailer in Canada?


No violecteic retailer at all in canada. Which is terrible, since the euro conversion will kill my wallet. Im leaning slightly towards the headamp model mentioned above. Unless i can get some deal :X


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Ichos said:


> @Tsukuyomi
> 
> If you don't need the preamp function then the V280 is the same sounding amp (a little less power) with a better price.


Id be connecting it to my rme adi-2 dac, would you recommend the v280 at that point ? Im not sure which would be better. Also, the v280 doesnt have balanced does it ?


----------



## Ichos (Jan 9, 2020)

If you don't have powered speakers or a power amp i don't see why you need the V281 (well except if you want the remote or the stepped attenuator).
The V280 is of course balanced and exactly the same amp as the V281 but just a little more powerful due to larger transformers.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/violectric_hpa_v280_black.htm
Can't you buy from USA?


----------



## Fegefeuer

@ArthurPower do you know a Canadian reseller of Violectric amps?


----------



## Super Angulon

Malcolm Riverside said:


> New V281’s can be found here:
> https://power-holdings-inc.com/Violectric-c34633356
> Too bad you missed out on the Black Friday  sale when the base model price was $1699! That said, the V281 is such a robust and well built product that I wouldn’t hesitate much before buying one used from an established trader. Plus the faceplate is user-replaceable if its damaged.
> I’ve heard good things about the GS-X mini but I’ve also seen folks rate the (upgraded) V281 above the original GS-X mk2. So I’d be surprised if the mini beats out the V281, but I’d love to hear them and compare.



Are there 2 versions of V281, upgraded and standard? AFAIK, there is only one.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Super Angulon said:


> Are there 2 versions of V281, upgraded and standard? AFAIK, there is only one.


I’m referring to the standard, remote controlled and relay volume options. So of the 3 options, I consider the V281 with relay volume control to be a fully upgraded unit and it has been noted by users to sound best of the 3 options. Is there a better way to refer to/understand the different options? If each one is better than the last and costs more money I‘d call those upgrades.


----------



## RobertSM

V281 can also be upgraded with the DAC module.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Ichos said:


> If you don't have powered speakers or a power amp i don't see why you need the V281 (well except if you want the remote or the stepped attenuator).
> The V280 is of course balanced and exactly the same amp as the V281 but just a little more powerful due to larger transformers.
> https://www.thomann.de/gb/violectric_hpa_v280_black.htm
> Can't you buy from USA?


I could be inporting from the u.s. would add extra fees. Id wanna avoid that.

I think the v280 would be better since i wont be using them for speakers. I'd be using it exclusively with my rme adi 2 dac and with headphones.


----------



## Ratephi

Anybody who owns (or has owned) both the V281 and the Benchmark HPA4 and who could share some impressions? I'd be extremely interested.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Ratephi said:


> Anybody who owns (or has owned) both the V281 and the Benchmark HPA4 and who could share some impressions? I'd be extremely interested.



Interesting you mention this. I have a V281 for years and just bought an HPA4 a couple weeks ago with the 30 day trial.

I am listening to the V281 as we speak, and I sent back the HPA4 this morning. Source is Chord Dave / M Scaler. I use LCD 4 and Abyss TC (though I also have a Formula S for my Abyss).

The HPA4 is a great amp, however in the quality that's most important to me - it beats the HPA4: smoothness. This contributes a lot to musicality. I found the HPA4 slightly dry.

When I compare the Dave out to the Violectric out it retains the smoothness of Dave/Mscaler. It's slightly darker, whereas the HPA4 is not. But the HPA4 is drier. As a result the V281 sounds much more musical to me.

The Dave out is more neutral AND smooth AND transparent. The V281 gives up a little on the neutrality (slight) and transparency. The HPA4 gives up a little on smoothness but not neutrality or transparency.

Demoing the HPA4 has given me a new appreciation for how much I like the V281 - especially with my LCD4. It's really a great amp: powerful, musical, and just ever so slightly south of neutral.


----------



## Ratephi

Appreciate your feedback, very much aligned with my expectations. I see you won the Formula S too (which is the other alternative I am looking at). Do I understand correctly that the Formual S is your amplification of choice with the TC? The TC is my main headphone and I'm trying to figure out what the best option among V281 (which I currently own), the HPA4, Dave and Formula S could be. Where does the amplification of the Dave fall short, in your view?


----------



## Ratephi

Drewligarchy said:


> Interesting you mention this. I have a V281 for years and just bought an HPA4 a couple weeks ago with the 30 day trial.
> 
> I am listening to the V281 as we speak, and I sent back the HPA4 this morning. Source is Chord Dave / M Scaler. I use LCD 4 and Abyss TC (though I also have a Formula S for my Abyss).
> 
> ...




Appreciate your feedback, very much aligned with my expectations. I see you won the Formula S too (which is the other alternative I am looking at). Do I understand correctly that the Formual S is your amplification of choice with the TC? The TC is my main headphone and I'm trying to figure out what the best option among V281 (which I currently own), the HPA4, Dave and Formula S could be. Where does the amplification of the Dave fall short, in your view?


----------



## Drewligarchy

I really like the TC out of Dave and Formula S. They are different. Dave is scary transparent and smooth. Formula S really improves the bass and depth of the sound stage (and it's not subtle), while adding an ever so slight even harmonic tilt to the sound. It all depends on what you'd like.

You really can't go wrong with Formula S and TC, but I'd demo first.


----------



## Ratephi

Drewligarchy said:


> I really like the TC out of Dave and Formula S. They are different. Dave is scary transparent and smooth. Formula S really improves the bass and depth of the sound stage (and it's not subtle), while adding an ever so slight even harmonic tilt to the sound. It all depends on what you'd like.
> 
> You really can't go wrong with Formula S and TC, but I'd demo first.




Interesting. As far as bass is concerned, I would expect the V281 to have an edge over the Formula S. Is that not the case in your experience? Have you fed the combo V281 and Dave into the TC?


----------



## jlbrach

I had the 281 and loved it but now have the formula s/ powerman combo....I find the combo to have a blacker background and wider soundstage....


----------



## Drewligarchy (Jan 27, 2020)

Yes.


Ratephi said:


> Interesting. As far as bass is concerned, I would expect the V281 to have an edge over the Formula S. Is that not the case in your experience? Have you fed the combo V281 and Dave into the TC?



Yeah - I understand why you would think that. I think quantity is about even but Formula S has better quality. It's tighter and has better texture.

I agree that Formula S is better for the TC specifically. I go back and forth with the LCD 4, but I think I lean toward the v281.


----------



## MariusValentin

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Much to my chagrin I’ve had too much else going recently on to reply to this in a timely fashion, but here is my long overdue write-up on these two amps:
> Firstly, the THX 789 definitely lives up to its specs. In fact when I first got it and plugged in my Utopias I actually had a moment of wondering if I still needed the V281! The THX has lots of power, clarity, spaciousness, and a linear, uncolored sound. I find the Utopia to be a great pairing because it shares a lot of those characteristics with the amp. I currently use the THX 789 as the amp in my “B” rig so obviously, I will not be replacing my V281 with it, but in terms of quality sound reproduction the two amps are not so far apart as you’d imagine based on the vast price differential between the two (and I have the relay volume control V281 model.) The V281 has more grip on the music if that makes sense, just that little extra oomph and palbable feeling to the notes that I really like in this amp. I found the Massdrop THX amp to have a little more brightness that sometimes gave it an edge in clarity over the V281 with some recordings but other times became a bit grating to me and meant I had to turn my music down or switch amps in the middle of listening sessions. So there can be a listener fatigue factor that I don’t ever get with the Violectric amp.
> 
> The V281 is also more versatile in terms of headphone pairings for my money. Despite its impressive power specs I found the THX a bit too polite when paired with my more demanding headphones, like the HE6se and the LCD-4. That said, it is more than capable of handling those beasts and it is nice to have a gain knob on the front to make adjustments, it’s just that the V281 added some real juice to the dynamic swings that I feel are the strength of those headphones while the THX was a bit more of neutral observer. I haven’t given the THX AAA 789 much of a run out with my HD800S or Eikon headphones since they see almost exclusive use with my tube amp nowadays, but I do enjoy listening to my Sony MDR-Z1R’s on it. So you can see that for such a cheap amp the THX AAA scales well with totl headphones, but is still bested in my opinion by the V281’s flexibile, supple sound signature.
> ...


I totally agree with everything you said. I also have the thx 789 and the violectric 281 to power my moded hifiman He-6 4 screws.
The difference between the two is not significant. I think the hpa 281 offers more body to the sound ,the bass is more precise and tight and it sounds darker overall. Where as the thx 789  sounds a bit thin and bright in comparison. I also noticed that is more neutral than V281. 
I think the THX 789 is a killer for the money.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nice 4 screw. Why did you keep the SMC connectors though?


----------



## MariusValentin (Feb 9, 2020)

I didn't had the patience to do it at the time. But yes when I look back I should've done it. Not big deal
I also glued the sandwich where the extra 2 screws are missing .It will be nearly impossible to take the drivers out without breaking them


----------



## Matt-Helm

I joined the club today. The codex is out and i'm waiting for the Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro MQA to show up.... and a balanced cable from my HD 800's.
So far so good.


----------



## paul30d

Hi

I recently bought a v281. Very happy with it. I have one basic question regarding the volume. Should I return the volume knob to the zero setting before turning on the unit? I suspect not, given that the manual says "On power-up and power-down, the outputs are cut from the amplifier circuitry by relay".

I just want to be sure. Having set the jumpers, I would prefer just to leave the volume knob at my preferred listening level when powering down and powering up. Anyone heard of any problems with this (headphones will stay connected to the unit as well)?

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Fegefeuer

No need for that at all. Just leave the knob at your favorite position and comfortably turn the V281 on (and off.)


----------



## paul30d

Fegefeuer said:


> No need for that at all. Just leave the knob at your favorite position and comfortably turn the V281 on (and off.)


Thanks! Was a little nervous given the power available and what it might do to the headphones. But I guess that's what the relays are for.

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, all is well protected.


----------



## Pharmaboy

paul30d said:


> Hi
> 
> I recently bought a v281. Very happy with it. I have one basic question regarding the volume. Should I return the volume knob to the zero setting before turning on the unit? I suspect not, given that the manual says "On power-up and power-down, the outputs are cut from the amplifier circuitry by relay".
> 
> ...



It never occurred to me to adjust volume before shutting down. I wouldn't bother with that if I were you.

BTW, I routinely leave headphones connected to my V281. I've never had a problem shutting down and turning on w/headphones connected.

I used mine as a system preamp as well as headphone amp. If there were any turn-on transients, I would surely know about it, but nothing like that ever happens. This unit is basically bulletproof!


----------



## Arniesb

paul30d said:


> Hi
> 
> I recently bought a v281. Very happy with it. I have one basic question regarding the volume. Should I return the volume knob to the zero setting before turning on the unit? I suspect not, given that the manual says "On power-up and power-down, the outputs are cut from the amplifier circuitry by relay".
> 
> ...


No, just dont play with gain settings when its on. You need to turn off amp for that.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Mar 2, 2020)

I got used to turning amps all the way down from tube gear in the 1970s and I still do it with solid state gear. If anybody else shares your gear it's a good practice either way so one of you doesn't get your brains blown out.

That said my V280 is dead silent when powering up/down. No clicking, unlike certain other amps I have... I'm sure it's safe to do whatever you want with your 281.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

MariusValentin said:


> I totally agree with everything you said. I also have the thx 789 and the violectric 281 to power my moded hifiman He-6 4 screws.
> The difference between the two is not significant. I think the hpa 281 offers more body to the sound ,the bass is more precise and tight and it sounds darker overall. Where as the thx 789  sounds a bit thin and bright in comparison. I also noticed that is more neutral than V281.
> I think the THX 789 is a killer for the money.



That's a very cool pic. The headphones look like they're lit because of the reflection from your keyboard.

You said HE-6 but the headphones say HE-560. I'm not knowledgable in Hifiman. They aren't the same model, are they?


----------



## Fegefeuer

It's a modded HE-6 with classic cups and a HE-560 headband system.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Fegefeuer said:


> It's a modded HE-6 with classic cups and a HE-560 headband system.



Cool!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Highly recommend this headphone and the HE-500 with the V281.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Mar 7, 2020)

If you haven't discovered it yet. This was shown at a few recent fairs. This is how future Violectric products in the same range will look. As you can see the case is much wider and deeper so there is place for more electronics. This of course bodes especially well for the V280/281 successors.

Relais volume control editions will sport the same volume control as the Niimbus devices. 

The old casing will remain with the current generation. All upcoming devices will have either this case or a smaller version of it depending on the model.



Here you see an upcoming DAC/AMP from Lake People in its full size. The DAC inside is a full blown DAC, no small add on card.
I have no idea about a release but I will open up a thread once I have more info.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> If you haven't discovered it yet. This was shown at a few recent fairs. This is how future Violectric products in the same range will look. As you can see the case is much wider and deeper so there is place for more electronics. This of course bodes especially well for the V280/281 successors.
> 
> Relais volume control editions will sport the same volume control as the Niimbus devices.
> 
> ...


Is this a prototype or a commercial unit ?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Prototype, nothing released yet.


----------



## Ichos

We better start saving...


----------



## Fegefeuer (Mar 7, 2020)

Relax and enjoy the V280. DAC/AMPs will come first and then some time later standalone amps. 

Also plenty of other stuff finally coming, especially cables. No need to look out for overbraided cables with 50kg midichlorian bathed connectors, enclothed in lovecraftian tentacle alien tissue with tomato sauce that glow in the dark if you come near your stack.

Pro Audio stuff. Robust, well built yet also flexible. Of course naturally "oversized" in terms of materials, satisfying all kinds of nervosa.


----------



## phonomat

I'm a little sad because that means I won't get a next generation Violectric DAC to pair with my V280 (atleast not with amtching footprint), but it certainly looks nice.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> Prototype, nothing released yet.


It looks so good even as a prototype. This is likely the next gen V850/V280 combo unit with 32 bits. Any idea if this includes a Femto clock inside too?


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Ichos said:


> We better start saving...


LOL. Indeed. Wallets will not be happy but ears will be.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> Relax and enjoy the V280. DAC/AMPs will come first and then some time later standalone amps.
> 
> Also plenty of other stuff finally coming, especially cables. No need to look out for overbraided cables with 50kg midichlorian bathed connectors, enclothed in lovecraftian tentacle alien tissue with tomato sauce that glow in the dark if you come near your stack.
> 
> Pro Audio stuff. Robust, well built yet also flexible. Of course naturally "oversized" in terms of materials, satisfying all kinds of nervosa.


I can attest to the high quality of their cables as I own their Violectric balanced interconnects and AES. Nothing fanciful but they provide excellent signal transmission.


----------



## Fegefeuer

phonomat said:


> I'm a little sad because that means I won't get a next generation Violectric DAC to pair with my V280 (atleast not with amtching footprint), but it certainly looks nice.



Understandable. The case work had to be different now to improve performance, thermal design and offer more options. 

e.g. a full combo in one package/enclosure like this. 




AudioPowerHead said:


> It looks so good even as a prototype. This is likely the next gen V850/V280 combo unit with 32 bits. Any idea if this includes a Femto clock inside too?



This is more of a V281 successor with a full DAC board. No idea about Femto. We will find out soon.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Some of you have speaker/monitor setups with w/subs (I have both). For any interested in better integrating sub w/speakers, a really high-quality solution just went F.S. on US Audiomart: the Marchand XM44 electronic crossover:

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649608350-marchand-xm44-crossover-balanced-option/

I have the Marchand XM66 with variable crossover frequency capability and can't praise it highly enough. I can detect zero audible effect of having this crossover in the system, and believe me, I tried to find some...

Highly recommended--plus the price is excellent. 

The fact that this particular unit can do either SE or balanced connections is pure gravy IMO.


----------



## sahmen

So what does the V281 do to a signal it has received from a dac when it is operating in fixed pre fader (pre amp) mode?  I know that the volume is fixed in pre fader mode, but does the V281 process, and alter the sound ii anyway before passing it on to the speakers, or does it keep it intact and neutral?  Another way lf asking the same question, is if my amps powering my two front speakers would sound the same, if I were to connect them directly to the Yggy A2 directly, without. interfacing them through the V281, as I am currently doing.

 Lastly, for those who have first hand familiarity with both, does the analog preamp section of the Niimbus US4+ sound the  same as, different from, or better than the preamp section of the Violectric V281 when they're both hooked up to amps and speakers in fixed volume pre fader mode?


----------



## Christoph

Pharmaboy said:


> Some of you have speaker/monitor setups with w/subs (I have both). For any interested in better integrating sub w/speakers, a really high-quality solution just went F.S. on US Audiomart: the Marchand XM44 electronic crossover:
> 
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649608350-marchand-xm44-crossover-balanced-option/
> 
> ...



How does it work? 
Put this crossover between the DAC and the amp in the signal path and connect an active subwoofer additionally to it?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Christoph said:


> How does it work?
> Put this crossover between the DAC and the amp in the signal path and connect an active subwoofer additionally to it?



There are 2 general scenarios:

*1. DAC has no volume control:* Here the output of the DAC (whether RCA or 2 X 3-pin balanced) must be connected to a line level component (ie, preamp or headphone amp/preamp) that has a volume pot. Then:

the output of the line level component connects to the input of the Marchand
the high-pass output of the Marchand (containing all frequencies above the crossover point) gets connected to either the power amp that drives speakers; or to the line-in of powered speakers
and the low-pass output of the Marchand (containing all frequencies below the crossover point) gets connected to the active subwoofer; or if the sub is passive, it's connected to the separate amp that powers the sub
My system is like this. One of my DAC's single-ended outputs is connected to the Violectric V281 amp/preamp, set up to serve as a line level preamp in addition to headphone amp. The single-ended output of the V281 is connected to the Marchand XM66, which then splits the signal to a high-pass output connecting to a class D amp that powers my passive monitors; and a low-pass output that goes to the powered subwoofer (with its own crossover bypassed). I'm currently using a crossover point of 70 Hz, after starting out w/80 Hz.

*2. DAC has a volume control:* In this case, the output of the DAC (whether RCA or 2 X 3-pin balanced) must be connected directly to the input of the Marchand. Then:

the high-pass output of the Marchand (containing all frequencies above the crossover point) gets connected to either the power amp that drives speakers; or to the line-in of powered speakers
and the low-pass output of the Marchand (containing all frequencies below the crossover point) gets connected to the active subwoofer; or if the sub is passive, it's connected to the separate amp that powers the sub

*Re crossover point:* The crossover frequency of some Marchand electronic crossover is fixed (ie, XM9, XM44); for example, the XM44 in the listing I linked to has a crossover of 80 Hz. Note that with such fixed-crossover boxes, the crossover frequency can be changed to any desired frequency by purchasing and installing crossover cards set to 70 Hz, 60 Hz, whatever you want.

One Marchand electronic crossover (my XM66) have variable crossover frequencies that are set via a front panel interface for this purpose. BTW, those volume pots for high- and low-pass on the front panel of the crossover? They're not to adjust system volume (the lack the full bottom-to-top range of a preamp volume control); instead, these are for adjusting the relative levels of high- and low-pass outputs.

If you have some other system configuration not discussed above, just PM me or indicate what it is & I'll try to address it.

BTW, there are other, cheaper crossover options available. There are number of professional/studio crossovers costing $200-$400 that can be used in music systems. However, these often are balanced only; and/or are said to sound pretty bad in a quality music system (the sonic objectives of pro systems are rather different than audiophiles'/music lovers' systems). And finally, there are inexpensive digital boxes that digitize the input and divide the signal to high- and low-pass in the digital domain before converting back to analog & sending to amp + sub. But...inserting a ADA component in the system may have sonic consequences...your ears will be the judge.


----------



## lcasadonte

Nice descriptions


Pharmaboy said:


> There are 2 general scenarios:
> 
> *1. DAC has no volume control:* Here the output of the DAC (whether RCA or 2 X 3-pin balanced) must be connected to a line level component (ie, preamp or headphone amp/preamp) that has a volume pot. Then:
> 
> ...


. Nice description.  I use the XM 66 as well for the purpose of integrating 2 subs with a pair of quad esl 63's.  In my case I crossover at 100.  I'm curious how you set your powered sub to negate the internal crossover?  I like the Marchand crossover and think its pretty a flexible device.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Apr 12, 2020)

lcasadonte said:


> Nice descriptions
> . Nice description.  I use the XM 66 as well for the purpose of integrating 2 subs with a pair of quad esl 63's.  In my case I crossover at 100.  I'm curious how you set your powered sub to negate the internal crossover?  I like the Marchand crossover and think its pretty a flexible device.



My sub (JL Audio e110) has some very handy features, including a top-mounted array of electronic controls, one of which switches the internal crossover in/out of line. When using the Marchand XM66, I switch the sub's crossover out, so that it has no effect on sound. This method is ideal because the sub's crossover is not active & thus cannot impart any sonic character (however slight) on the sound of the sub (we're talking tiny sonic differences here).

Subs that lack this feature can still be easily adjusted for an external crossover--just find the potentiometer that selects low-pass crossover point desired (ie, 80 Hz, 100 Hz, whatever); then rotate the pot to a much higher crossover point, well above whatever frequency you set on the Marchand. Technically this means that the sub's crossover is still in-line & active, but cannot interfere w/the Marchand.


----------



## lcasadonte

Pharmaboy said:


> My sub (JL Audio e110) has some very handy features, including a top-mounted array of electronic controls, one of which switches the internal crossover in/out of line. When using the Marchand XM66, I switch the sub's crossover out, so that it has no effect on sound. This method is ideal because the sub's crossover is not active & thus cannot impart any sonic character (however slight) on the sound of the sub (we're talking tiny sonic differences here).
> 
> Subs that lack this feature can still be easily adjusted for an external crossover--just find the potentiometer that selects low-pass crossover point desired (ie, 80 Hz, 100 Hz, whatever); then rotate the pot to a much higher crossover point, well above whatever frequency you set on the Marchand. Technically this means that the sub's crossover is still in-line & active, but cannot interfere w/the Marchand.


Thanks.


----------



## Christoph

Pharmaboy said:


> There are 2 general scenarios:
> 
> *1. DAC has no volume control:* Here the output of the DAC (whether RCA or 2 X 3-pin balanced) must be connected to a line level component (ie, preamp or headphone amp/preamp) that has a volume pot. Then:
> 
> ...



Thanks for your detailed explanations, do i get it right that both options have two volume pots? 
Or which solution would provide just one volume pot?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Christoph said:


> Thanks for your detailed explanations, do i get it right that both options have two volume pots?
> Or which solution would provide just one volume pot?



Actually, my outline assumed that there would be just one volume pot to control system volume: 

In the "*DAC has no volume control*" option, that volume pot would be on the preamp, HP amp/preamp, or other line level device that receives the output of the DAC & sends it on to the electronic crossover; 
For this option I totally forgot to mention that a passive volume controller of some kind could just as well take care of system volume (instead of a preamp or HP amp/preamp)

And in the "*DAC has a volume control*" option, it's the DAC that has a volume pot to control whole-system volume. 
In real-world systems, there sometimes are more than 1 volume pot that can control system volume, or the volume of part of a system. I left out that variable because it becomes pretty confusing to lay out how such a system would be configured...


----------



## Christoph

Pharmaboy said:


> ...
> In real-world systems, there sometimes are more than 1 volume pot that can control system volume, or the volume of part of a system. I left out that variable because it becomes pretty confusing to lay out how such a system would be configured...



Yes, that was the reason why i have asked, more than one volume pot is confusing and could affect the sound quality when configured in the wrong way. 

One of your options was to connect it to an active subwoofer and the integrated amp in the subwoofer usually has also a volume control (the second in the whole setup) 
This were my thoughts... 
Anyway, thanks for the details.


----------



## rmsanger

Does anybody have experience with:

Rupert Neve RNHP (~$500 new)
Phonitor 2 ($1k Used)
Violectric HPA V281 ($1k Used)

I have LCD3, LCDX, and HP3s... Looking to add a solid state amp to the mix and wondering which offers the best performance at their respective price levels.


----------



## Pharmaboy

rmsanger said:


> Does anybody have experience with:
> 
> Rupert Neve RNHP (~$500 new)
> Phonitor 2 ($1k Used)
> ...



I have a V281 w/full remote & 128-step pot (no experience w/the other amps you mention). I had a pre-fazor LCD-3 (since sold). Still have an LCD-2.1/pre-fazor; ZMF Ori, Eikon, Aeolus; heavily modded HD650, the Jupiter Audio JAR650; and a Hifiman Edition X v2.

All these headphones sound at least very good on the V281. Some sound spectacular. I've had & sold other headphones, also had a number on loan--none sounded even just "average" on the V281.

BTW, I use the V281 as my daily system preamp, as well as #1 HP amp...a task it is extremely well suited for due to extremely flexible I/O layout & separate gain settings for HP vs preamp path.


----------



## musicmaker

I've been through several amps - including a GS-X mk2, Moon 430HA and a few others. Listening to a v281 with the 128 step and remote now and I consider it to be one of the best ss amps I've heard. There's isnt a headphone i've owned that doesn't sound good with the v281. Its got a touch of warmth and an awesome bottom end. I've heard good things about the Phonitor 2/xe/x as well. Haven't listened to one but have read its extremely neutral with a very low noise floor. I dont think you can go wrong with either of these german amps.


----------



## Pharmaboy

musicmaker said:


> I've been through several amps - including a GS-X mk2, Moon 430HA and a few others. Listening to a v281 with the 128 step and remote now and I consider it to be one of the best ss amps I've heard. There's isnt a headphone i've owned that doesn't sound good with the v281. Its got a touch of warmth and an awesome bottom end. I've heard good things about the Phonitor 2/xe/x as well. Haven't listened to one but have read its extremely neutral with a very low noise floor. I dont think you can go wrong with either of these german amps.



I have 7 amps currently (V281 being one of them): 6 are SS (1 has a tube buffer on the output); and 1 is an OTL tube amp. I owned 4-5 other amps over the years, including a powerful Burson amp/preamp & a big, excellent tube amp, the Woo WA22.

I like all the amps I have. There's no question certain amps can do certain things a little better, or at least a little differently, than the V281. But the V281 has been top of the heap since the day I installed it IMS. It does everything at least very well, and a couple things (bass & dynamics) spectacularly well.  

People often call SS amps that aren't etched, bright, or harmonically parched "tube-like." I don't hear it that way. I just hear a SS amp being musical--in other words, faithful to the ebb & flow of music, with a natural weight in the lower registers, full rendition of the timbre of instruments, and space around the notes.


----------



## rmsanger

Pharmaboy said:


> I have a V281 w/full remote & 128-step pot (no experience w/the other amps you mention). I had a pre-fazor LCD-3 (since sold). Still have an LCD-2.1/pre-fazor; ZMF Ori, Eikon, Aeolus; heavily modded HD650, the Jupiter Audio JAR650; and a Hifiman Edition X v2.
> 
> All these headphones sound at least very good on the V281. Some sound spectacular. I've had & sold other headphones, also had a number on loan--none sounded even just "average" on the V281.
> 
> BTW, I use the V281 as my daily system preamp, as well as #1 HP amp...a task it is extremely well suited for due to extremely flexible I/O layout & separate gain settings for HP vs preamp path.



Thanks this is very helpful!   I'm looking at a V281 base so no remote and 128-step pot.  Would you consider it a deal breaker to only having the base version?


----------



## Pharmaboy

No remote would be a deal breaker for me, but that's just the way my system is configured--also my habit of using the remote.

The stepped pot is a more subtle thing. Some reviewers said they could hear a small difference between standard/non-stepped pot & stepped pot. That does make sense considering the different design/parts/construction of each. 

I've only heard this unit w/the stepped pot. I have another Violectric product--actually a Lake People product, the G109-A single ended HP amp. It has a standard analog pot & sounds terrific.

Even w/o the remote & stepped pot, you would get all the same extremely flexible input/output features, separately adjustable headphone gain vs preamp output gain, etc.

I guess if remote doesn't matter much, you'd still be getting one hell of a base amp/preamp...


----------



## Ichos

Pharmaboy said:


> People often call SS amps that aren't etched, bright, or harmonically parched "tube-like." I don't hear it that way. I just hear a SS amp being musical--in other words, faithful to the ebb & flow of music, with a natural weight in the lower registers, full rendition of the timbre of instruments, and space around the notes.



Can't agree more with this sentence.


----------



## Fegefeuer

rmsanger said:


> Thanks this is very helpful!   I'm looking at a V281 base so no remote and 128-step pot.  Would you consider it a deal breaker to only having the base version?



No, but I recommend upgrading to the Bifrost 2 for this amp. The jump from the Bifrost 1 to the Bifrost 2 is huge and the V281 rewards it very much.


----------



## project86

Just started a thread over in the "source" section but I wanted to cross post it here for relevance. It's the new Violectric V590 all-in-one unit. Supposedly a tweaked/improved V281 plus a new AKM-based DAC in one chassis. Comes with remote and relay-based volume, no other options. Should be shipping around June and priced well under $4k US, which seems like a good value to me. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-violectric-all-in-one-v590.930529/

There may, down the road, be a spin-off version without the digital section. But that's all conceptual at this point.


----------



## Kozwoz (Apr 28, 2020)

deleted


----------



## Kozwoz

I heard the V200 has more bass body and punch compared to the V281 and with a more rolled off treble response. Is this accurate?


----------



## Ichos

Inside the V281 / V280 you find two V200 amps working together for the balanced out.
So the single ended out of V281 is exactly a V200 amp.
And yes the V200 sound is a little more , warm with less clarity  , less stage and separation.
So you may perceive this as more body.
It is more thick , tubey sounding.
Punch of the V281as bass performance is at least two times better than the V200.


----------



## AudioPowerHead (Apr 29, 2020)

Ichos said:


> Inside the V281 / V280 you find two V200 amps working together for the balanced out.
> So the single ended out of V281 is exactly a V200 amp.
> And yes the V200 sound is a little more , warm with less clarity  , less stage and separation.
> So you may perceive this as more body.
> ...


Am glad that I bought the V280 last year and not the V200 AE instead 

And for me, balanced is better than SE. I have since re-terminated my HP cables to balanced.


----------



## Ichos

Balanced is way better than single ended.
To tell you the truth I don't find the V200 much to my liking.
I would prefer an RS 02 for single ended use.


----------



## Kozwoz

Ichos said:


> Inside the V281 / V280 you find two V200 amps working together for the balanced out.
> So the single ended out of V281 is exactly a V200 amp.
> And yes the V200 sound is a little more , warm with less clarity  , less stage and separation.
> So you may perceive this as more body.
> ...


So single ended the  V281 / V280 and the V200 are similar? I don't intend to re-terminate my headphones so V200 would be a good option I guess. Unless single ended on V281 / V280 provides a leap in sound quality?


----------



## Ichos

They sound exactly the same.
So for your case go for V200 or RS02 if you need more sparkle and speed with a little loss in body.


----------



## project86

There are some minor changes to the amp circuit, plus power supply differences etc. So in theory there could be an audible difference even for single ended listening.

Personally, I've always felt using V281 single ended does in fact sound a bit more neutral, quick, and airy than V200. But I would not recommend the added cost just for that minor difference. Balanced is a whole different experience and really the only way to fully enjoy V281.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Kozwoz said:


> So single ended the  V281 / V280 and the V200 are similar? I don't intend to re-terminate my headphones so V200 would be a good option I guess. Unless single ended on V281 / V280 provides a leap in sound quality?



Before getting my own V281, I read many contradictory comments about its sound, SE vs balanced. Some people claimed a huge, easily heard difference in favor of balanced; others felt there was a small difference, but still good sound w/SE.

I'm in the latter camp. I do most listening on the V281 using balanced headphones & cables--but every now & then I try SE & get the same wonderful V281 sound I'm familiar with, just a little less ballistic in terms of dymamics & soundstage. 

Then again, the V281 has dynamics & soundstage to spare.


----------



## Fegefeuer

V281 SE is different to the V200 indeed. Superior too.


----------



## Ichos

I don't know for 281 but comparing my V280 single ended with V200 at my home I couldn't tell a difference.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Very interesting discussion.

If the SQ on SE for V281/V280 is supposed to be the same, theoretically it should either be V281/V280=V200 or V281/V280 >V200.

I’m seeing feedback of V281>V200 while V280=V200. Somehow the equation does not hang together. I know this hobby is subjective. 

I remember reading Fried mentioning somewhere that “V200 amp tech” is already at its summit and this “V200 amp tech” is very much inherent in the design of V281/280, so while there could be very subtle but noticeable sound improvements due to implementation changes in analogue circuit, power treatments etc, the V281/280’s key strength IMHO is its balanced output addition. For anyone wanting to use only SE should just get the V200.


----------



## paul30d

AudioPowerHead said:


> I’m seeing feedback of V281>V200 while V280=V200. Somehow the equation does not hang together. I know this hobby is subjective.


I was wondering about that too. I have the V281, so it's a bit academic. But it seems to me is that hard-to-drive headphones with a balanced connection to the v281 or v280 would be better than an SE connection to a v200. But an easy-to-drive headphone might sound the same on a v281 and v200. But having never heard a v200 I would not really know.


----------



## Kozwoz

Anyone here tried the LCD4 with the V281 in single ended? Couldn't get an answer over at the V200 thread with this matching. Wondering if either amp in single ended would have enough power to drive the LCD4 at 200 Ohm. As stated before would prefer not to go balanced for the sake of the V281.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Kozwoz said:


> Anyone here tried the LCD4 with the V281 in single ended? Couldn't get an answer over at the V200 thread with this matching. Wondering if either amp in single ended would have enough power to drive the LCD4 at 200 Ohm. As stated before would prefer not to go balanced for the sake of the V281.



Never heard an LCD-4. I have a V281 & every now & then try it in S.E. mode. I did that w/LCD-3 once, if memory serves; also once w/my pre-fazor LCD-2.1; also once (at least) with the ZMF Ori, a power-hog planar that requires way more power than any other headphone I've had in my system. Zero problem with power for any of them.

I've also driven all these same headphones (and others) very well via an excellent Violectric-designed single-ended amp, the Lake People G109-A (which has somewhat less power than the V281). Again, no problem at all w/sufficient power.

Ignorant question: what's stopping you from considering a balanced connection? The LCD-4 is a big-league headphone that may well sound incrementally better via balanced connection to a quality balanced amp like the V281. If you have a balanced amp, or if you end up getting one, I would think it's a logical upgrade path to at least try balanced connection.

Good balanced cables for Audeze/ZMF headphones cost $$, of course. The least expensive good cable I know is by Periapt. You could get a 2M balanced cable for these headphones for under $100. I have 2 balanced Periapt cables and they get the job done. And if you were willing to spend 2-3X that, you could get a killer cable.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Kozwoz said:


> Anyone here tried the LCD4 with the V281 in single ended? Couldn't get an answer over at the V200 thread with this matching. Wondering if either amp in single ended would have enough power to drive the LCD4 at 200 Ohm. As stated before would prefer not to go balanced for the sake of the V281.


I’d say that if you have a V281, commit to maximizing the potential of the amp and go balanced, no matter what headphones you’re using with it. I think anyone who has spent time with the amp will tell you it sounds better in balanced mode as that’s how it was designed. If you’re committed to single-ended cables it’s probably wiser to go all in on an amp that excels with that output and has lots of power—like a Pass Labs HPA-1—to run your LCD-4. And I’m with @Pharmaboy; compared to the cost of an LCD-4 and the sonic improvements it can offer with a V281, it’s relatively inexpensive to buy a quality balanced cable. You don’t have to spend a grand to see worthwhile sonic improvements.


----------



## Kozwoz (May 5, 2020)

Everyone here will think me mad for wanting to go the V200 route. This is a case that I prefer the tonality. The V281 in balanced is more neutral, accurate, detailed and powerful. But the V200 tonality is what I'm after, it has slightly rolled off treble, a smoother presentation, a fuller bodied punchier low end. I find the LCD4 a tad bright at times when listening to electronic music and I love my bass. The fact that its going to be a bit less detailed as a result of acquired tonality is a tradeoff I'm willing to accept. I guess I could get V281 and always have the option to go either balanced or single ended. I understand some here think that V281 in SE is the V200 as its the same amp. 

A couple more questions... anyone here using the V281 as pre-amp to studio monitors? What I want to know is does the V281 add it's own character to the output signal or is it literally passing through the DAC signal being fed unaltered? I wouldn't mind adding a bit of character to my flat studio monitors. Or at least have that option.


----------



## Fegefeuer

What DAC are you using?


----------



## Kozwoz

Fegefeuer said:


> What DAC are you using?


Benchmark DAC3 HGC. The amp section on the DAC3 isn't great. Sounds a bit thin at times with power hungry cans but it does have great resolution. It does do something special to my Shure 846 that I've heard no other amp do though, its an amazing combo if anyone gets a chance. As a DAC though it is very good and detail retrieval is up there with something like Chord Hugo but provides better flexibility with 3 analogue outs and 2 in and usb obviously and acts as pre-amp.. Currently run the DAC3 out into 2 pairs of studio monitors and one sub each on individual output on the back. It has one XLR out and 2 RCA out. 

So I could do XLR out on DAC3 to XLR in on the V281 and then run the the XLR out on V281 to my mid field studio monitors but this would probably give me a different sound to the Benchmark DAC3 out straight to my main monitors. I imagine V281 wouldn't give me the same reference quality sound the Benchmark DAC3 does as pre-amp but possibly something a bit warmer and musical?


----------



## RobertSM (May 5, 2020)

I use V281 as a preamp to a studio level Genelec 8350a speaker. The speakers are tuned to be absolutely flat.

I believe the V281 in this configuration doesn't add it's own character in terms of frequency response. What I would say it adds it's dynamic nature. It's wide and deep soundstage.

I've actually done frequency spectrum measurements using the very powerful Gelelec GLM hardware and software kit. I've measured from my DAC (DAC V850) straight out to the speakers. I've also measured DAC to V281 to speakers. The results have been very very little change from one to another. My speakers also do a AD-->DA conversation. With all of this back and forth and the signal being treated twice and ran through V281 I see very little changes. Again, the sonic impact being increased soundstage depth and height and increased dynamic performance.


----------



## Pharmaboy (May 5, 2020)

Kozwoz said:


> Everyone here will think me mad for wanting to go the V200 route. This is a case that I prefer the tonality. The V281 in balanced is more neutral, accurate, detailed and powerful. But the V200 tonality is what I'm after, it has slightly rolled off treble, a smoother presentation, a fuller bodied punchier low end. I find the LCD4 a tad bright at times when listening to electronic music and I love my bass. The fact that its going to be a bit less detailed as a result of acquired tonality is a tradeoff I'm willing to accept. I guess I could get V281 and always have the option to go either balanced or single ended. I understand some here think that V281 in SE is the V200 as its the same amp.
> 
> A couple more questions... anyone here using the V281 as pre-amp to studio monitors? What I want to know is does the V281 add it's own character to the output signal or is it literally passing through the DAC signal being fed unaltered? I wouldn't mind adding a bit of character to my flat studio monitors. Or at least have that option.



I've used the V281 as system preamp since the day I got it. During that time, I've had 2 pairs of powered monitors; followed by 2 pairs of high quality passive speakers/monitors, for which I use a powerful class D amp (Wyred 4 Sound ST-500). Including the V281, have 3 HP amp/preamps to compare in preamp mode...which I did casually, not lots of time & effort (V281; Audio GD SA-31SE; M Stage Matrix HPA-1). I also have a nice-sounding, inexpensive passive volume controller/preamp I used to use F.T., and used for test purposes now & then in this system (NHT PVC-1). With all that, here's what I conclude:

All 4 units used as preamp sound quite good to me. Each sounds slightly different (not unexpectedly), but I could live w/any of them. Note that each HP amp/preamp unit sounds just like itself whether used as preamp or HP amp (meaning their preamp circuits are as well implemented as their amplification circuits)
_All active preamps add some character (however slight) to the output signal. Still, I prefer active preamps by a very wide margin to high $$ passive controllers, which I've also tried (and hated)_

The V281 is my clear favorite of the group--I love its sound both as amp & preamp (*very *dynamic; expansive soundstaging for a SS unit; terrific bass in every way; slight warmth, not nearly enough to obscure detail).
_The musical character of the V281 isn't nearly enough to = EQ. Still, it makes the more neutral of the speakers I've used sound a bit more musical (a welcome effect IMO)._

V281 is also my favorite because it has the most input/output flexibility I've ever seen in any preamp, including separate gain adjustments (+/- an astounding 14 dB) for headphone output vs preamp output.
Even if I'd never heard the V281 as a headphone amp (it's my favorite there, too)--I would never part with it based on how good it is as a preamp.


----------



## Law87

me and Robertsm traded amp earlier in the weeks, I gotta say, its extremely hard for me to let go of the Woo Audio WA6-se I had, but my susvara needed more power. I hope it doesnt disappoint me.


----------



## RobertSM

Law87 said:


> me and Robertsm traded amp earlier in the weeks, I gotta say, its extremely hard for me to let go of the Woo Audio WA6-se I had, but my susvara needed more power. I hope it doesnt disappoint me.




Welcome to the V281 owners club. Tons and tons of information here. Also, I noticed the owners are usually very willing to help and answer questions and give advice.

Also, I think you'll learn that with V281 flexibility with DIP switches for headphone gain and output flexibility to act as a preamp, this bad boy is in the hall of fame for amps!


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## Fegefeuer

goodbye RobertSM


----------



## Kozwoz

I reached out to Violectrics and would like to post this here to clear this up once and for all. The internal amp circuitry of V200, V220, V280, V281 are identical. According to them all these amps sound identical with unbalanced headphones, when driven with the same source. Also the preamp quality of V220 and V281 is identical.


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## Fegefeuer

Only the V281 can blast this album with the LCD-4 as it's meant to be though

https://tidal.com/browse/album/125917739


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## AudioPowerHead (May 7, 2020)

RobertSM said:


> Welcome to the V281 owners club. Tons and tons of information here. Also, I noticed the owners are usually very willing to help and answer questions and give advice.
> 
> Also, I think you'll learn that with V281 flexibility with DIP switches for headphone gain and output flexibility to act as a preamp, this bad boy is in the hall of fame for amps!


I see you have traded this for the Woo Audio WA6-se. If I remember correctly, you also own the SPL Phonitor 2.
Sad to see you leaving the Violectric/LP bandwagon though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

He's going for the new gen.


----------



## Ichos

Kozwoz said:


> I reached out to Violectrics and would like to post this here to clear this up once and for all. The internal amp circuitry of V200, V220, V280, V281 are identical. According to them all these amps sound identical with unbalanced headphones, when driven with the same source. Also the preamp quality of V220 and V281 is identical.



Well I have stated that thousand times in this thread....


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## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> He's going for the new gen.


Or Niimbus perhaps...


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## RobertSM (May 11, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> goodbye RobertSM



Thank you.

But you're all not getting rid of me so easily. I still own the Violectric V850. And @Fegefeuer and @AudioPowerHead are both correct. I will be without a Violectric amp only for a short time. My plan this Summer will be to either have a new gen Violectric or maybe the Niimbus. To be 100% honest the Niimbus is probably too much of a stretch with my budget. So most likely the next gen.

I'll still be around in the forums. My praise and appreciation for Violectric hasn't changed. But as we all know in life...nothing stays the same.


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## Simple Man

Well Robert, if you also want to say goodbye to your v850, please let me know. 😉


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## actionfinger

Hello,

I run my V280 with the internal DAC. I can think of an upgrade to the new V380 to get a better dac, but in Germany you will only get around 800€ for a used V280. So I don’t want to loose 1000€ in one year. So.. to upgrade my Amp, I am thinking about update my dac section. Are there any recommendations? 
And what will the new lineup mean for the price of the old series?


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## Fegefeuer

The new generation will mark the end of the current, only a selected few will reappear in new form factors.

V281 and 280 will go into EOL

If you are happy with the v280, wait it out until you are much more comfortable to upgrade. The listening experience will not get worse in the meanwhile.

Upgrading your DAC is a good idea. What are you using right now? Which headphones do you use? Are they all balanced?


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## actionfinger

Now I am using the xmos chip in my V280. 
Currently, i am using the Focal Clear, Denon 9200. I sold my Sundaras for upgrading to a bigger planar. But this is an other story. I always get custom balanced cables for my headphones.


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## Fegefeuer (May 8, 2020)

My DAC recommendations are

Bifrost 2 - best value, very good tone/timbre, extension

Gungnir Multibit - lively, jumpy, emphasizes transients, more punch and slam as BF2 but tonally colder. 

Matrix X-Sabre Pro - most neutral, very clear, images rather flat


V850 - no nonsense DAC, politer than the rest, more rounded than most, no digititus at all

Convert-2 - for the crazy and bold, very hardhitting and jumpy, very exciting and good tone, kinda polished like Ubisoft's Antialiasing, not the very best in microdetails but still very good, 19" format and not the best build/design.

Yggdrasil Analog 2 - amazing tone and timbre, hard hitting bass, warmer than Gungnir but still great attack

Never heard Hugo 2 or Qutest.


----------



## actionfinger

So, you didn’t leave much worlds for the 850. Do you prefer the other over the Violectric DAC? 
The V850 is the only one with resampling option. Do you think it’s something you need to have?
I will explain what i expect from a new dac.. 
the Clear for example is by far not the widest and deepest headphone. I hope that I can create a better room and imaging. 
I heard a stax L700.. o boy what an experience. I hope there is a planar on the marked that can do nearly the same.
But for now, i want my headphones that I own to do better.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Focals have precise imaging but the image is small. It's why I never wanted one.

If you want bigger go for the HD800, Arya, HEKSE (@Empyah could say something) etc

With the Focal I would pick Bifrost 2, V850, Yggdrasil Analog 2 as they have the best tone for it.

I like the V850 but I like the Bifrost 2 more. I wish the Bifrost 2 had the same features, VXCO, AES in etc,  but then it would need a bigger case, board etc and would be over 1k.


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## actionfinger (May 8, 2020)

Perhaps I have to wait till the new lineup is available. The V800 dropped around 500€ when the 850 came out. 
Did you hear any of those good measured DACs at audiosciencereview and compared them to the much higher priced ones?


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## Fegefeuer

Yes, and I don't like them. Only the Matrix as stated above. Don't like the RME either. I don't find analog design to be somewhat their forté. Matrix is great. They put a lot of effort into their designs.

I would never buy these memey me-too DACs and all the topping I heard was not worthy. Edgy, stripped off sound, lacking nuances. I guess it's easy to convince people that only listen to anime music and weird electronica. This stuff falls apart once real instruments kick in. And yes, I listen to a lot of electronic music.

Also all these DACs are designed "by paper". There is not much afterthought. It sells though and it measures very well, at least within the methodology 

Got quite a few fanatics of them in my surroundings. People get easily attention with DAC Chip naming and buzzwords. 

As for THX amps. I find all these amps dead sounding and without character. I'd only consider the Benchmark HPA4 because their approach is always outstanding and highly evolved.

However either Niimbus US4+ or HPA V5XX will get my attention. Looking forward to compare V590 vs. V281.


----------



## Simple Man

I wait, for now, , till I find a nice priced v850. 
Difficult yo find at this moment. 
someone maybe?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Here is one

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/violectric-dac-v850/1181588092-172-8046


----------



## project86

Also keep en eye out for the older V800, I feel like they maybe they are (or were) out there in greater numbers than V850. And being older, the price generally goes lower on the second hand market. They still have excellent sound, very neutral and clean without being shouty, overly dry, or boring.

V800 is obsolete as far as USB goes, but great USB to SPDIF conversion gets cheaper by the month, so it's easy to bridge that gap. I've seen V800 go for around $500, and with a good DDC being another $100-200.


----------



## Simple Man

Fegefeuer said:


> Here is one
> 
> https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/violectric-dac-v850/1181588092-172-8046


Thanks!
seen them cheaper but see what he want to do.


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## Simple Man (May 8, 2020)

project86 said:


> Also keep en eye out for the older V800, I feel like they maybe they are (or were) out there in greater numbers than V850. And being older, the price generally goes lower on the second hand market. They still have excellent sound, very neutral and clean without being shouty, overly dry, or boring.
> 
> V800 is obsolete as far as USB goes, but great USB to SPDIF conversion gets cheaper by the month, so it's easy to bridge that gap. I've seen V800 go for around $500, and with a good DDC being another $100-200.



older dacs ment, in the old days, seriously worse, old technics etc?
If this is not the case it could be a good option.
I didn’t understand the usb/ddc part. Can you explain?
thanks.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Simple Man said:


> older dacs ment, in the old days, seriously worse, old technics etc?
> If this is not the case it could be a good option.
> I didn’t understand the usb/ddc part. Can you explain?
> thanks.


Simplest way to explain the problem with dacs and USB is that USB transmits a lot of electrical noise (aka jitter) from one’s computer, which can make its way subtly but noticeably into the analog output of a dac, thus degrading audio quality from an amp. It’s easy to get deeeeeppp in the weeds on this topic! Folks much, much more knowledgable than me have weighed in on this for years all over the internet if you want to go down that rabbit hole. But don’t say I didn’t warn you!


----------



## Simple Man

Ok jitter. I remember, those where the days, first cd player, Sharp, 1/2 sampling etc, drama.
usb is nice to have but not the main connection so not really to worry about.
but sound/stage/detail wise, is the 800 less, really less, than the 850?


----------



## project86

Yes V800 is similar to V850 in many ways, as far as I recall the entire analog stage is nearly identical, as is much of the digital section. V800 used a single Texas Instruments PCM1792 DAC chip while the V850 used a pair of PCM1795 chips - which are newer but also lower in the TI range. The 1792 was their flagship chip and has superior specs (signal to noise, distortion, stop band attenuation, etc). Since V850 uses two of the "lesser" chips in dual mono mode, it's probably a wash, but the point is they aren't far in performance.

The main upgrade was the USB section, which was substantially improved in V850. But if you use SPDIF from your transport, or an external DDC, then it doesn't matter.

DDC stands for Digital to Digital Converter, also sometimes called USB Bridge or other names. Basically they allow one to benefit from the newest USB receiver technology, and convert that signal to SPDIF which any old DAC can make use of. So even an ancient but fun DAC from the 1990's can be used with USB audio, using a DDC to bridge the gap. Hence adding one to the V800 would negate the main improvement brought by V850. Or, you could just use coaxial etc and skip USB if you wish. 

Not trying to talk you out of a V850 by any means, just throwing out another option. There's also the less expensive Lake People DAC RS 06 which is another similar option to look for.


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## Fegefeuer

You could also just build a Raspberry Pi with various HATS to choose from and create your own transport


----------



## Simple Man

project86 said:


> Yes V800 is similar to V850 in many ways, as far as I recall the entire analog stage is nearly identical, as is much of the digital section. V800 used a single Texas Instruments PCM1792 DAC chip while the V850 used a pair of PCM1795 chips - which are newer but also lower in the TI range. The 1792 was their flagship chip and has superior specs (signal to noise, distortion, stop band attenuation, etc). Since V850 uses two of the "lesser" chips in dual mono mode, it's probably a wash, but the point is they aren't far in performance.
> 
> The main upgrade was the USB section, which was substantially improved in V850. But if you use SPDIF from your transport, or an external DDC, then it doesn't matter.
> 
> ...



THANK YOU for the explanation. Very helpful. 
makes it worth looking for an 800. Even een RS06.


----------



## Simple Man

Fegefeuer said:


> You could also just build a Raspberry Pi with various HATS to choose from and create your own transport


Sorry. No. I can’t.


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## AudioPowerHead (May 8, 2020)

Simple Man said:


> THANK YOU for the explanation. Very helpful.
> makes it worth looking for an 800. Even een RS06.


The RS06 is value-for-money (although subjectively less attractive in looks vs Vio). Re-sampling is only on/off (this should be the equivalent of "best" option in the V800/850).


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## AudioPowerHead (May 8, 2020)

project86 said:


> Yes V800 is similar to V850 in many ways, as far as I recall the entire analog stage is nearly identical, as is much of the digital section. V800 used a single Texas Instruments PCM1792 DAC chip while the V850 used a pair of PCM1795 chips - which are newer but also lower in the TI range. The 1792 was their flagship chip and has superior specs (signal to noise, distortion, stop band attenuation, etc). Since V850 uses two of the "lesser" chips in dual mono mode, it's probably a wash, but the point is they aren't far in performance.
> 
> The main upgrade was the USB section, which was substantially improved in V850. But if you use SPDIF from your transport, or an external DDC, then it doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


Interesting sharing. Didn't know that the PCM1792 is the superior chip to the relatively newer PCM1795. I had impression that it's the other way round. In my case, I own the V850 and had considered getting the Schlit Eitr for USB to SPDIF but changed my mind and took a path less travelled with the RS05(with Femto) for jitter elimination/re-clocking. So far am very happy with my purchase decision.


----------



## Music Path

AudioPowerHead said:


> Interesting sharing. Didn't know that the PCM1792 is the superior chip to the relatively newer PCM1795. I had impression that it's the other way round. In my case, I own the V850 and had considered getting the Schlit Eitr for USB to SPDIF but changed my mind and took a path less travelled with the RS05(with Femto) for jitter elimination/re-clocking. So far am very happy with my purchase decision.



Would have thought the same but from the specs it is true, at least the values are better on the PCM1792. Assuming the V800 has a similar construction in terms of analog design, its probably true that they have similar performance like project86 said. Wonder if the iUSB3.0 or the ipurifer3.0 from ifi would work to improve the usb performance on the v800?
Note that besides that v800 doesn´t allow to change filter, while on the v850 you can change from slow to sharp and vice versa. Don´t if makes big difference, but it shows on the manuals.

Links for chips performances:
https://www.ti.com/product/PCM1795
https://www.ti.com/product/PCM1792


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## AudioPowerHead (May 9, 2020)

Music Path said:


> Would have thought the same but from the specs it is true, at least the values are better on the PCM1792. Assuming the V800 has a similar construction in terms of analog design, its probably true that they have similar performance like project86 said. Wonder if the iUSB3.0 or the ipurifer3.0 from ifi would work to improve the usb performance on the v800?
> Note that besides that v800 doesn´t allow to change filter, while on the v850 you can change from slow to sharp and vice versa. Don´t if makes big difference, but it shows on the manuals.
> 
> Links for chips performances:
> ...


Thanks for sharing the specs. Before I bought the V850, I asked Fried the difference vs V800, he told me that they had "put more effort" in the analogue circuitry, power supply etc which resulted in subtle but noticeable improvement in sound. Although I did not have the chance to compare them, I do believe him. Other than the dac chip, the implementation is equally; if not arguably more; important.

I do not own the iUSB/ipurifier but I think they do help. I still have a Totaldac USB Filter in my chain to help with 1st level jitter filter on the signal before having it go into the RS05>V850>V280.


----------



## project86

I sometimes use an iPurifier3 for USB and it can make a big difference in certain situations. Same thing with the BMC PureUSB which seems similar to the Totaldac product. I imagine any of these would help out with the V800 but you'd still be stuck with an old Tenor adaptive USB solution topping out at 24/96, so I would think a USB to SPDIF converter would be more beneficial. 

The RS05 has always intrigued me. I bet it does a great job.


----------



## AudioPowerHead (May 9, 2020)

IMHO, the RS05 is a critical piece in the chain for effective jitter elimination to give the dac the purest signal possible. Did simple A/B (with & without) test some time back, there was audible improvement.


----------



## Law87

guys a little confuse by this statement


"The frequency range covers 5 Hz ... 70 kHz (-0.5 dB) or 3 Hz...200 kHz
respectively (-3 dB), in order to ensure fully linear performance within
the entire audible range"

what is this mean?


----------



## RobertSM

@Law87 

The German to English translation of the owners manual is a little rough.


----------



## Law87

RobertSM said:


> @Law87
> 
> The German to English translation of the owners manual is a little rough.




O I thought that meant if I reduced the gain to -6db it would cover from 3hz to 200kHz


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## Pharmaboy (May 9, 2020)

Law87 said:


> guys a little confuse by this statement
> 
> 
> "The frequency range covers 5 Hz ... 70 kHz (-0.5 dB) or 3 Hz...200 kHz
> ...



It means this is an exceptionally wideband amplifier, with outputted frequencies remaining under control/within specs well below & above the human threshold of hearing. That suggests a robust power supply, highly spec'd output devices, and a clean, low noise & distortion circuit...with the result being "fully linear performance within the entire audible range."

This has nothing to do with user-selectable gain settings. Instead it presumably describes the amp's performance under test-load conditions.


----------



## Pharmaboy

(sorry double post)


----------



## D P C

Well having just got myself a lovely V281 from a forum member, i must say i am very happy with the pairing of it along with my hd800s, adds a nice bit of warmth and bass, without losing any top end or the ridiculous huge sound stage the hd800s have.
Being feed directly from my rossini and clock on its balanced outputs, very revealing and just a lush sound to it all


----------



## Kozwoz

I wonder if someone knowleagble here could tell me if they think the V281 listed at around £1600 and V220 at £1300 are worth buying at these prices brand new? Have these prices been inflated as of late or have they always stayed as high as this? I'm not asking if these amps are subjectively worth the asking price but the price compared to when these amps were first released. The V200 brand new for example is about €1000 yet when it first came out it was less I believe. Would of thought it would be cheaper now.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I paid 1500 euros for a new V280 several months ago. I don't know what your prices for the V280 are but it seems it would cost little more than the V200 (I think you meant 200, not 220) and the V280 is twice the amp the V200 is, so no-brainer to go for the V280. I didn't like the form-factor of the V281 but the amp is even stronger than the V280 because of its power supply, but I believe other than that it is the same topology as the V280 (which in turn is 2xV200).


----------



## sahmen

So what are the main advantages of messing with the gain settings on the V281? I'm asking because ever since I got mine, I have taken a kind of minimalist "if-not-broke-don't-fix-it" approach to it, and left those settings alone at the default "unity gain," where they were when I purchased the unit, about 4 years ago. Of course, it has also been easy for me to take that approach, because the unit has been able to drive all the cans I have thrown at it since then, from that unity gain setting, without my having to over-stress or under-stress it in any way.

 I mean that it has driven notoriously hard to drive, or "amp-picky" cans, from the Audeze LCD-4 (200 ohms), through the Sennheiser HD800, to even the  Hifiman He-6, on the one hand, and on the other, more efficient (and easier to please) cans/iems, such as the Hifiman Edition X V2, or the HeKSE, not to mention the Audeze LCDi4 or LCD-X, and done so also quite comfortably, without generating any unwanted noise, or any side effect I need to worry about.  I will not go into its service as a pre-amp for driving a 2-channel speaker system, which I have also loved from day one.  Suffice it to say that leaving gain settings untouched has really served me well, providing a level of versatility, reliability, and stability in performance for 4 straight and flawless years, without a single hiccup, 4 years, for which I am very grateful, and will always be.

Lately, however, I have been asking myself whether the unit's performance could have been any better if I had experimented with different gain settings for some of these different headphones, and I have not been able to answer definitively in the negative, simply because I have not really done any experiments myself to eliminate either an affirmative or negative answer to that question...   Still, I wanted to pose the question to the forum and find out if anyone has, and found a response either way.... The question is relatively simple:

Can any pair of headphones, which plays or performs acceptably well at unity gain on the V281, up its game in sound quality and performance, if played at a different gain settings on this same amp? If so, can the results of the experiment be repeatable to others in controlled circumstances, in order to eliminate the influence of typical illusions produced by well-known factors such as placebo or confirmation bias? Any helpful contributions or thoughts would be welcome.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> So what are the main advantages of messing with the gain settings on the V281? I'm asking because ever since I got mine, I have taken a kind of minimalist "if-not-broke-don't-fix-it" approach to it, and left those settings alone at the default "unity gain," where they were when I purchased the unit, about 4 years ago. Of course, it has also been easy for me to take that approach, because the unit has been able to drive all the cans I have thrown at it since then, from that unity gain setting, without my having to over-stress or under-stress it in any way.
> 
> I mean that it has driven notoriously hard to drive, or "amp-picky" cans, from the Audeze LCD-4 (200 ohms), through the Sennheiser HD800, to even the  Hifiman He-6, on the one hand, and on the other, more efficient (and easier to please) cans/iems, such as the Hifiman Edition X V2, or the HeKSE, not to mention the Audeze LCDi4 or LCD-X, and done so also quite comfortably, without generating any unwanted noise, or any side effect I need to worry about.  I will not go into its service as a pre-amp for driving a 2-channel speaker system, which I have also loved from day one.  Suffice it to say that leaving gain settings untouched has really served me well, providing a level of versatility, reliability, and stability in performance for 4 straight and flawless years, without a single hiccup, 4 years, for which I am very grateful, and will always be.
> 
> ...



One of the more tempestuous topics here & elsewhere is whether sound differs qualitatively at low vs high gain settings. You'll find passionate commentary on both sides of the debate. I myself have never heard any substantive difference, and in fact tend to prefer the low/standard gain setting on all amps that have switchable gain--simply because all my headphones except for the ZMF Ori are relatively sensitive designs. Even the high impedance dynamics on hand (Aeolus, Eikon, JAR650) don't need huge power to get going. 

In practice this means at low/std gain, I'm more towards the middle of the volume pot's range, not down at the very bottom (7:30AM on the dial) as I would be at higher gain settings. The typical volume pot range is 9:30AM to 11:00AM on the dial for all HPs except Ori; and for the Ori (a power hog planar) it's more like 10:30AM to 12:00 on the dial. I have 5 SS amps & 1 OTL tube amp--and this applies to all of them, even the lowest power example (M Stage Matrix HPA-1).

The V281 (my #1 HP amp/preamp) is very powerful. I found a gain setting of -12dB to be perfect for the headphone output...it allows all my headphones to get out of the lowest volume settings on that big 128-step volume pot. When I first had the V281, before I figured out how to set gain, I was using it unity gain. That was terrible, as all my headphones were somewhere in the bottom 4-5 clicks on that dial...and a couple were almost too loud even there.

As it happens, -12dB is also an optimal gain setting for the preamp output in my rather complex desktop system (preamp outputs to Marchand electronic crossover, which separately outputs to amp+desktop monitor & subwoofer).


----------



## phonomat

sahmen said:


> So what are the main advantages of messing with the gain settings on the V281? I'm asking because ever since I got mine, I have taken a kind of minimalist "if-not-broke-don't-fix-it" approach to it, and left those settings alone at the default "unity gain," where they were when I purchased the unit, about 4 years ago. Of course, it has also been easy for me to take that approach, because the unit has been able to drive all the cans I have thrown at it since then, from that unity gain setting, without my having to over-stress or under-stress it in any way.
> 
> I mean that it has driven notoriously hard to drive, or "amp-picky" cans, from the Audeze LCD-4 (200 ohms), through the Sennheiser HD800, to even the  Hifiman He-6, on the one hand, and on the other, more efficient (and easier to please) cans/iems, such as the Hifiman Edition X V2, or the HeKSE, not to mention the Audeze LCDi4 or LCD-X, and done so also quite comfortably, without generating any unwanted noise, or any side effect I need to worry about.  I will not go into its service as a pre-amp for driving a 2-channel speaker system, which I have also loved from day one.  Suffice it to say that leaving gain settings untouched has really served me well, providing a level of versatility, reliability, and stability in performance for 4 straight and flawless years, without a single hiccup, 4 years, for which I am very grateful, and will always be.
> 
> ...


IIRC, Fried Reim has said that theoretically the sound should be optimal when the volume knob is set between the 12 o' clock and three o' clock position or something along these lines. (Don't remember the exact numbers, somebody correct me if they're wrong.


----------



## phonomat

Pharmaboy said:


> One of the more tempestuous topics here & elsewhere is whether sound differs qualitatively at low vs high gain settings. You'll find passionate commentary on both sides of the debate. I myself have never heard any substantive difference, and in fact tend to prefer the low/standard gain setting on all amps that have switchable gain--simply because all my headphones except for the ZMF Ori are relatively sensitive designs. Even the high impedance dynamics on hand (Aeolus, Eikon, JAR650) don't need huge power to get going.
> 
> In practice this means at low/std gain, I'm more towards the middle of the volume pot's range, not down at the very bottom (7:30AM on the dial) as I would be at higher gain settings. The typical volume pot range is 9:30AM to 11:00AM on the dial for all HPs except Ori; and for the Ori (a power hog planar) it's more like 10:30AM to 12:00 on the dial. I have 5 SS amps & 1 OTL tube amp--and this applies to all of them, even the lowest power example (M Stage Matrix HPA-1).
> 
> ...


I thought the gain settings on the back only affected the headphone outs while the lineout was addressed by internal switches, but I might be wrong.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

The gain is supposed to be set so that you have a good range of control with the volume knob. That's all.

I found the stock settings too hot for the headphones I use out of it so I am running it at -12dB.


----------



## Pharmaboy

phonomat said:


> I thought the gain settings on the back only affected the headphone outs while the lineout was addressed by internal switches, but I might be wrong.



You are correct. Violectric prioritized ease-of-access to the HP output gain switches, I suppose because many people would use the V281 solely (or more often) for headphones than preamp functions.

It's more of a PITA to get at the internal ones--but I'm not complaining. Having separate switchable gain setting for HP out vs preamp out is a genius design move IMO, so I'm not quibbling convenience details.


----------



## jlbrach

whwn I owned the 281 I also had to set it to -12 to be able to turn the gain up between 12-3 as I also like it....I do not like to listen to my amps at 9 oclock


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Agree with all. No sound difference at various pre gain levels, just more room on the volume pot if move from +12 to -12. Even at -12db, I am at 9.30AM to 11.00AM max for comfortable listening on the V280.


----------



## sahmen (May 12, 2020)

So it appears -12db is repeatedly showing up, as if it is a magic number. Is that a mere coincidence? I am inclined to doubt it, since such coincidences tend to be rare in this enthusiast community.

One thing I am not understanding is why there is almost a consensus regarding the idea that somehow playing high efficient cans at, say, level 9 o'clock amounts to something "terrible"? I am saying this without meaning to be disrespectful or rude to anyone,  but it surprises me to hear that, since, as I have already mentioned, i have been using cans such as the LCD-X, the LCD-i4, the Hifiman HeKSE, and the Hifiman Edition X V2 (when I used to own it) on the V281, around the 9 o'clock zone without feeling that anything was particularly amiss.  Yes I have to bump it up to the 11 o'clock region when playing the LCD-4, and to the 1 o'clock region with the He-6, when it was here.  But all those changes, and habits appeared pretty normal, and after 4 years, you could say I have become pretty used to handling my V281 this way...

But, when all is said and done, I'll rather approach this with an open mind than any kind of strong headedness, especially if there are SQ and performance benefits to be had by experimenting with different approaches.

Tomorrow, I shall also try the -12db and see what newness that would bring to the table. There's after all nothing to lose, and, perhaps, something to gain here.  If there are no performance-related benefits to be had, I shall just return to my "old normal," and no harm done. Thanks to all for your helpful responses.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

AudioPowerHead said:


> Agree with all. No sound difference at various pre gain levels, just more room on the volume pot if move from +12 to -12. Even at -12db, I am at 9.30AM to 11.00AM max for comfortable listening on the V280.



This aligns with my preferences and experiences. It really depends on the headphones you use with it most often and what level of volume you're comfortable with.


----------



## Fegefeuer (May 12, 2020)

I don't have the V281 anymore but I remember that 0db made the HD 800 fuller, more bold, and the lesser I went with the gain the less fleshy it became. Sorta like a powerful skeleton vs. a powerful muscle man. @Relaxasaurus is the latter of course.

I'd like to test this more thoroughly since chains changed and I want to make sure I did not fall prey but I gotta grab a V281 again. Then I will repeat the test.

I also found that this behaviour could not be replicated with other headphones (mainly Hifiman, planars) expecting the same results of the HD 800.

With the Hifiman headphones it was all about range of motion with the volume control.

With the US4+ I compared various gains UPWARDS from 0db to 36db for the 4 screw HE-6, HE-6SE, HE-500 etc. and could not find any gains except motion range of the volume control. +36db was insane though as I could not move the volume control much. 7W@50 Ohms are no joke.

Haven't done the same with the HD 800 though this time. Can't be bothered. HD 800 sounds sublime on 0db and there is enough volume motion since this amp and the future Violectrics are quieter by default.

HD 800 does a leap forward, don't sleep on that headphone because of new shiny things. Expecting the same from the V590 and V5XX standalone amp, and also V280's successor.


----------



## Simple Man

When listening at 9 o’clock I noticed some/a bit of distortion in music this weekend. First I thought it was in the lp/record, but ig was never there before. 
Later also in flas’s from my network. 
I a lucky 281 owner with the 127? Steps volume control.
I feed the 281 with a Classé Audio Five preamp for now, I need the phonepre, and after turning down the volume from the Five A bit, I noticed the distortion was gone. 
my idea is that this is a complete different matter but it has influence.


----------



## phonomat

Fegefeuer said:


> HD 800 does a leap forward, don't sleep on that headphone because of new shiny things. Expecting the same from the V590 and V5XX standalone amp, and also V280's successor.


I tried this headphone several times (certainly not underdriven and more than once out of a V281) and was baffled by the complete absence of lower frequencies every single time. The HD 800 S seemed marginally better in that regard, if at all. I don't consider myself a basshead, but somehow I got zero out of it. Maybe I just don't "get" this sound, it seems so entirely insubstantial to me. It's a shame because I love a huge soundstage, and I really wanted to like that headphone since it gets so much praise, but its sound is a total enigma to me.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> So it appears -12db is repeatedly showing up, as if it is a magic number. Is that a mere coincidence? I am inclined to doubt it, since such coincidences tend to be rare in this enthusiast community.
> 
> One thing I am not understanding is why there is almost a consensus regarding the idea that somehow playing high efficient cans at, say, level 9 o'clock amounts to something "terrible"? I am saying this without meaning to be disrespectful or rude to anyone,  but it surprises me to hear that, since, as I have already mentioned, i have been using cans such as the LCD-X, the LCD-i4, the Hifiman HeKSE, and the Hifiman Edition X V2 (when I used to own it) on the V281, around the 9 o'clock zone without feeling that anything was particularly amiss.  Yes I have to bump it up to the 11 o'clock region when playing the LCD-4, and to the 1 o'clock region with the He-6, when it was here.  But all those changes, and habits appeared pretty normal, and after 4 years, you could say I have become pretty used to handling my V281 this way...
> 
> ...



I believe the "good" vs "terrible" characterization of volume pot setting arises from channel tracking errors (& sometimes higher noise levels) associated w/inexpensive volume pots, which typically aren't linear at the extremes of their range. That's probably where the recommendation of "use volume pot in middle of its range" (ie, 10AM to 2PM on dial) comes from.

That doesn't really apply with resistor-based stepped pots, which are more linear top to bottom. Even so, if it's a high gain amp & there's no gain switching capability, you might be forced into using the extreme lowest steps on the pot with more sensitive, low impedance headphones...and maybe not be able to get the volume as low as desired for low volume listening.

The V281 is a special case. I can't find a spec for overall amplifier gain HP & preamp outputs. I'm guessing overall gain is high: it's a powerful amp, and the range of gain adjustment provided for both output is an astounding -14 dB to + 14 dB.

_Note there's +6 dB difference between gain of the single-ended HP output vs balanced (as with any balanced design). If you use balanced headphone connections, unity gain is sky-high & you appreciate that wide range of _/+ gain settings_.
With all that gain adjustment--and the V281's linear resistor-based stepped pot -- your main concern is getting average usable range of the volume pot away from the very bottom & top, so you have the maximum # of steps to adjust volume.

Net/net: the only thing "magical" about the -12 dB gain setting in both HP & preamp outs, for me, is that it lets me dial in volume closer to them middle of the volume pot's range. Beyond that very important convenience issue, there's no particular sonic benefit from -12 dB that I can detect.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, that's the beauty of the (reed)relais volume pots, they are pretty much linear all the way up and down. Pretty good neurosa killer too. Makes worrying about volume pot position more a matter of comfort and ergonomics and not a matter of performance. You don't wanna drive a balanced Fostex TH-900 with +36db pre-gain for instance. 

Btw, I often heard that amps screech in pain and agony when the dial is about 90% and upwards. 
When I played around with gain settings up to +36db, the 0db setting with the HE-6 had the utmost volume position and yet there was no sign of it at all. It was effortless.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Fegefeuer said:


> yeah, that's the beauty of the (reed)relais volume pots, they are pretty much linear all the way up and down. Pretty good neurosa killer too. Makes worrying about volume pot position more a matter of comfort and ergonomics and not a matter of performance. You don't wanna drive a balanced Fostex TH-900 with +36db pre-gain for instance.
> 
> Btw, I often heard that amps screech in pain and agony when the dial is about 90% and upwards.
> When I played around with gain settings up to +36db, the 0db setting with the HE-6 had the utmost volume position and yet there was no sign of it at all. It was effortless.



I keep hearing that the HE-6 brings otherwise strong/good amps to their knees. I'd love to hear that one sometimes. 

As for amps howling at the top of their range, I've read comments like that before. Maybe it's my aversion to high volume these days (headache & tinnitus rule out party volumes), but I've never gotten any of my amps, even the least powerful, over ~1:30PM on the dial.


----------



## Fegefeuer (May 12, 2020)

HE-6's can measure down to 77db sensivity. They really make amps come crashing down. The V281 handle's them pretty good, amps that provide more or similar wattage like the THX amps and the Mjolnir 2 were noticably worse. There's more than pure watts to power delivery of course.
With -12 or -14db of the V281 you would be able to bring the pot to the end, depending on the track of course. That way you can safely do the above "experiment".

Since the US4+ is by default quieter at unity gain, you already have a very big range of motion with the HE-6. That's the only reason why I experimented.

Imo, the HE-6 like the HD 600/650 or 800 is a must-have headphone. It slams like no other headphone and as a great feel of tactility and "physicality".



phonomat said:


> I tried this headphone several times (certainly not underdriven and more than once out of a V281) and was baffled by the complete absence of lower frequencies every single time. The HD 800 S seemed marginally better in that regard, if at all. I don't consider myself a basshead, but somehow I got zero out of it. Maybe I just don't "get" this sound, it seems so entirely insubstantial to me. It's a shame because I love a huge soundstage, and I really wanted to like that headphone since it gets so much praise, but its sound is a total enigma to me.



Hm.

For me the HD 800 only lacks in overall volume very down low and its rolloff at the 30hz range. Other than that it can kick and slam pretty hard. Just not HE-6 levels. Also I found having the Gungnir MB, BF2 and the Yggdrasil v1 to lead to a better bass experience than DACs like the ADI-2. That great "Moffat Bass".
The stellar staging and imaging of those DACs also support the HD 800's strengths. 

Now I want to see how the new gen handles it.


----------



## project86

Some people claim noticeable improvement with changing the gain settings higher or lower. Others feel it only impacts your use of the volume control, and the relative sound is identical once you adjust for matching levels. I recommend messing with it yourself see what conclusion you come to.


----------



## project86

Btw I just heard that Violectric is has a sort of special model which they are calling V281FE for Final Edition. Basically same amp, in black only but with a silver accent on the faceplate trim and Final Edition badging. Same $2199 price and Arthur is throwing in the XMOS USB option for free.

There were less than 100 of these made and most have already been spoken for by dealers around the globe. Arthur has access to 20 of them though, along with a single standard version left in stock. After that I guess V281 will only be around on the second hand market.


----------



## Pharmaboy

project86 said:


> Btw I just heard that Violectric is has a sort of special model which they are calling V281FE for Final Edition. Basically same amp, in black only but with a silver accent on the faceplate trim and Final Edition badging. Same $2199 price and Arthur is throwing in the XMOS USB option for free.
> 
> There were less than 100 of these made and most have already been spoken for by dealers around the globe. Arthur has access to 20 of them though, along with a single standard version left in stock. After that I guess V281 will only be around on the second hand market.



Thanks for the heads' up. If I didn't already have a V281, I'd jump on this with both feet. 

It will be a sad day when V281s are no longer made...


----------



## project86

Yep, the XMOS DAC section is surprisingly good for the original ask and downright amazing for the price of "free" on this latest version. Not reference class but nice to have as a backup if nothing else.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

project86 said:


> Btw I just heard that Violectric is has a sort of special model which they are calling V281FE for Final Edition. Basically same amp, in black only but with a silver accent on the faceplate trim and Final Edition badging. Same $2199 price and Arthur is throwing in the XMOS USB option for free.
> 
> There were less than 100 of these made and most have already been spoken for by dealers around the globe. Arthur has access to 20 of them though, along with a single standard version left in stock. After that I guess V281 will only be around on the second hand market.


Arthur always have a way to sweeten the deal for his customers. Kudos to him. His service is 1st-class.

The FE V281 certainly is very tempting but the next gen IMO is even more tempting. And for those who can wait will likely be rewarded with improved sonic benefits. Of course this is easily said than done. I; for one; do not have such virtue of patience. That's why I bought the V850/280 late last year despite the fact that these models are already few years old.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Pharmaboy said:


> Thanks for the heads' up. If I didn't already have a V281, I'd jump on this with both feet.
> 
> It will be a sad day when V281s are no longer made...


Hahaha... I know this is your favorite SS amp


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, at least it'll get parts and service for many many years to come


----------



## Pharmaboy

More proof of model changes at the top of Violectric's headphone amp line: Drop just listed the V280 F.S. ($1199 vs $1700 list). That's a great deal IMO...

I'm sad to see these excellent models getting (eventually/soon) DQ'd, but life moves on.


----------



## sahmen

Don't know what folks think about the V280 for $1199, but that's what it is selling for at Massdrop now. Here it is, in case anyone is interested :

https://drop.com/buy/violectric-v28...ontent=1590127479604.289799922164718594255826


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> Don't know what folks think about the V280 for $1199, but that's what it is selling for at Massdrop now. Here it is, in case anyone is interested :
> 
> https://drop.com/buy/violectric-v280-headphone-amp?utm_placement=1&referer=9US2ZN&mode=guest_open&utm_campaign=Automated Daily Promotional 2020-05-22&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Daily Promotional&utm_content=1590127479604.289799922164718594255826



If I didn't already have a V281, I'd get this in a heartbeat (it's exactly the same amp circuit). I am never disappointed by the sound of the V281, and quite often am elevated & entertained by it.


----------



## mixman

Pharmaboy said:


> If I didn't already have a V281, I'd get this in a heartbeat (it's exactly the same amp circuit). I am never disappointed by the sound of the V281, and quite often am elevated & entertained by it.



Have seen a few V281’s used for sale not far from that price. As a matter of fact didn’t Violectric have a sale on the V281 around BF for $1,499?

Wondering if I should just wait for a used V281?


----------



## bildar

1199 screaming deal.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> well, at least it'll get parts and service for many many years to come


Just curious to know typically how long can Violectric products last before parts start failing and need replacements/repairs.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Can't say really. You should be way into the gen after the upcoming. And then just be standing there empty-handed because nothing comes crushing down. Of all stuff I have this is the least I worry about. These things are very well engineered and tested, they will last you a very long time. And if something happens the support is there.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Fegefeuer said:


> Can't say really. You should be way into the gen after the upcoming. And then just be standing there empty-handed because nothing comes crushing down. Of all stuff I have this is the least I worry about. These things are very well engineered and tested, they will last you a very long time. And if something happens the support is there.



Exactly. These boxes are built to last.


----------



## Shane D

Happy to announce that I have joined the Violectric family! I bought an 18 month old V220 last night. Hoping to have it for next weekend. 
My only slight disappointment is not having a balanced headphone out. However, the unit is mint and the price was good. I guess my Liquid Platinum will be for balanced out and the 220 will be for SE out.

Pretty excited!


----------



## Fegefeuer

The V220 is not a balanced amp thus it doesn't offer a 4-PIN XLR out. Should have gone V280 which goes for 1199 Dollars at the moment but of course that's probably way more than you paid.

Looking forward to you sharing your experience.


----------



## Shane D

Fegefeuer said:


> The V220 is not a balanced amp thus it doesn't offer a 4-PIN XLR out. Should have gone V280 which goes for 1199 Dollars at the moment but of course that's probably way more than you paid.
> 
> Looking forward to you sharing your experience.



That V280 works out to just about $2K, all in,landed in Canada. And that is with the large Drop discount.
I paid half that.

I am Really looking forward to it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

This is how the FE looks. This marks the end of life of the V281. It has been quite a good run.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Interesting, Thomann is holding the line on price. I feel less bad now. I still feel bad, just less...


----------



## Fegefeuer

Why do you feel bad?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Fegefeuer said:


> Why do you feel bad?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...ns-and-discussion-thread.803271/post-15630364


----------



## Shane D

i


Fegefeuer said:


> This is how the FE looks. This marks the end of life of the V281. It has been quite a good run.



Big and chunky aren't they? I would have preferred the balanced output and the slimmer form factor of the V280. But not to the tune of $1,000.00.

Maybe if the V220 blows me away, I will move the LP and V220 and get a V281.
But that would have to be some kind of great.  

It's funny but I started out with one amp and have gone up six amps at a time. Now I am down to three. I wonder if I will maybe end up at one amp again? Maybe I will find the one amp that can do it all. For an outrageous price of course.


----------



## Fegefeuer

gimmeheadroom said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...ns-and-discussion-thread.803271/post-15630364



I see. Don't feel bad, the performance will not degrade and the successor isn't out anyway. Plus drop.com to EU isn't exactly feasible after a certain amount



Shane D said:


> Big and chunky aren't they? I would have preferred the balanced output and the slimmer form factor of the V280. But not to the tune of $1,000.00.
> 
> Maybe if the V220 blows me away, I will move the LP and V220 and get a V281.
> But that would have to be some kind of great.
> ...



Remember that the V281 is basically two V220's in one package. It's also why 4-PIN XLR is essential to make use of all 4 amps inside or the full design.

V281 has bigger PSU section than the V280 and makes total use of them actually. V280 could actually be designed with one PSU in mind. I listened to both before they came out to the market and found the V281 better. However V281 also has the option of relais volume control which also makes a difference.

It was actually the Niimbus US4+ which proved best to me how important volume controls are post-"great enough". I compared it thoroughly with a prototype volume control type which unfortunately will never make it to the market. Would have been fun to have such an option but alas the performance wasn't good in comparison.


----------



## sahmen (May 24, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> Why do you feel bad?



Maybe because the expression "final edition" sounds like a "good bye" edition and therefore tends to remind one of sad things, such as hearses and grave yards?  

Don't know, but personally, I am looking forward to the V281's direct descendant or successor, since it seems  as if they seem bent on officially turning it into some kind of "ancestral" or Museum artefact of the violectric line...  That is what the expression "final edition" says to me personally...  I know that mileages would vary on this one.  Some might consider a "final edition" as an ideal collector's item, for example, which for me, only emphasizes the museum artefact concept even more  

Okay, I shall keep quite about this. i can feel my thoughts getting a little too morbid about this for my liking.


----------



## Pharmaboy (May 24, 2020)

Shane D said:


> Big and chunky aren't they?



I happen to love the looks & form factor of the V281. It's ideal for my crowded desktop...couldn't be better.

Let's not forget the larger case houses features not found on the V280: circuit boards for remote control of volume & for the stepped pot.

Those are options--but if you get a V281, you might as well go all the way (both options are totally worth having IMO).


----------



## Shane D

Pharmaboy said:


> I happen to love the looks & form factor of the V281. It's ideal for my crowded desktop...couldn't be better.
> 
> Let's not forget the larger case houses features not found on the V280:
> 
> ...


I get it about the options, but I have a bit of a shelving thing going on. My tube amp needed to be on top due to height and clearance. Then my LP needed to be on top due to height clearance. Now this will need to be on the top shelf due to the size. There is only so much top shelf available.  

I will have to get creative.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Shane D said:


> I get it about the options, but I have a bit of a shelving thing going on. My tube amp needed to be on top due to height and clearance. Then my LP needed to be on top due to height clearance. Now this will need to be on the top shelf due to the size. There is only so much top shelf available.
> 
> I will have to get creative.



You actually have more room than I do--and 2 shelves to my 1.


----------



## Shane D

Pharmaboy said:


> You actually have more room than I do--and 2 shelves to my 1.


That is cozy!


----------



## Music Path

Fegefeuer said:


> V281 has bigger PSU section than the V280 and makes total use of them actually. V280 could actually be designed with one PSU in mind. I listened to both before they came out to the market and found the V281 better. However V281 also has the option of relais volume control which also makes a difference.



They should sound similar according to Violectric. You said one post back that the V280 sounds a bit warmer.
I´m interested in those amps.
Heard the V280 in a store with the HD800 and i liked it, though if the V281 is similar that would be an option too.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Just go for the V281, never go without a pre. Can come in handy even if you don't want speakers (which you should though).

@Empyah for instance will use his V281 in pre-fader mode to passthrough the signal from his Yggdrasil to his upcoming EC Studio JR. That way he can make use of the Yggdrasil's superior XLR outs (compared to the SE) for both amps.

V281 will convert to SE out in this case.


----------



## Music Path (May 25, 2020)

I´m not using speakers, and not much into it, if chosing the V281 would be because of the input selector in the front and extra power. Don´t know if the extra power makes a big difference though, using Sennheiser or Beyers, and i like using the knob from 12-3 comfortably.
So in which other aspects is a preamp usefull, when using with HPs? I thought it was just a function to use with speakers if you want to.


----------



## mixman

Wonder if anyone here happen to have or compare the GSX Mini to the V281 or V280?


----------



## Shane D

Got my V220 today. Man, the box is big. Sounds great! I will just listen for a few days and then start doing some comparisons.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

mixman said:


> Wonder if anyone here happen to have or compare the GSX Mini to the V281 or V280?



I have not. I can't find specs listed on the manufacturer's website. 

If you don't need pre out than you can save 500 bucks if the V280 is still available on drop for 1200 USD.


----------



## Fegefeuer

If you put gsx on the search a few posts pop up, haven't posted all

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-244#post-14221802

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-292#post-15238460

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-254#post-14392366

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-197#post-13617964


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Fegefeuer said:


> If you put gsx on the search a few posts pop up, haven't posted all
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-244#post-14221802
> 
> ...



Yeah but who has the guts to post defamatory comparisons of our beloved V28X in our own thread!


----------



## Fegefeuer

If it's well written I'm fine with it.


----------



## mixman

Fegefeuer said:


> If you put gsx on the search a few posts pop up, haven't posted all
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...-durch-balanced.705318/page-244#post-14221802
> 
> ...


I have seen those and most reference the GSX MK2 which is a more expensive and supposedly brighter amp. The GSX mini is supposedly less bright and $600 more than the Drop V280 and less than a new V281. The thing that held me back from going for the V280 was the understanding because of it’s warm nature it may not work as well with some warmer cans as other amps.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I've heard good things about the GSX mini but not easy to listen to in Germany so no chance to give it a review.
You can also wait for the HPA V340. Shouldn't be far off. In the meanwhile you can create the difference in costs.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

mixman said:


> I have seen those and most reference the GSX MK2 which is a more expensive and supposedly brighter amp. The GSX mini is supposedly less bright and $600 more than the Drop V280 and less than a new V281. The thing that held me back from going for the V280 was the understanding because of it’s warm nature it may not work as well with some warmer cans as other amps.



I have a V280 and I don't consider it warm. It seems pretty neutral to me. So far I have used it with Sennheiser 600, 800, and LCD-3F, all balanced.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Jun 2, 2020)

I have 7 amps, incl. V271 & Lake People G109-A. My warmest amp is the Liquid Carbon v2--which unlike all the others, actually sounds somewhat warm to me. Yet it is with the LC v2 that 3-4 headphones (also somewhat warm) had unexpected & noteworthy synergy, producing some of the most neutral sound I've yet heard from those HPs. Why did this happen? No idea...

This whole "warm" & "cold" thing is fraught with subjective mysteries. One is expectation bias: for example, someone who adores the sound of amps known to sound "neutral" or "bright" or "revealing" or "clinical" (pick your adjective) may well hear an amp that is none of those things--but is also not sugary/syrupy warm in the least--as warm. Another is relative tonality: for example, an amp with sensational bass & mid-bass (ie, the V281) may sound "warm" to someone merely because the low registers have natural weight (as they do IRL), which many are not used to hearing in headphone audio. The list goes on.

Other factors unrelated to tonality may drive amp sound: power; output & imput impedance; SE vs balanced; gain settings (or lack of them); and of course, the connected headphone, which may interact w/the amp in some non-linear manner due to things like impedance matching, sensitivity & power requirements, etc.

For what it's worth, I find my V281 to sound "slightly warm," but IMO that's really the result of an absence of any emphasis in upper mids & highs (and that terrific bass). The characteristics I hear all the time from the V281 that deserve way more notice than tonality are:

dynamics--large & in charge at all times
bass--deep, impactful, conveying full timbre of different low-pitched instruments
soundstage--big & spacious for a SS amp
clarity/resolution--a clear sound, not veiled/muffled in any part of the range
power--lots of it


----------



## project86

Totally agree with the above post regarding the complexities and describing sound, and the over simplification we get when summarizing the sonic character of a device with a single, temperature-based word. 

I have not heard the GS-X mini. I loved the GS-X mk2, it has excellent resolution and a very spacious presentation. I can see why that leads some people to find it "cold" or "bright". As with anything, system matching is essential. Given the choice between GS-X mk2 and V281, I would have a tough time deciding, but ultimately would go with V281 - yet I could easily configure a system where the GS-X would work better. 

Honestly when we are dealing with really exceptional amps (or DACs, or streamers, etc) it usually comes down to nuances rather than massive differences.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I agree with the above two posts.

What I love about my V281 is the controlled treble, never gets out of hand / fatiguing.  And the deep "clear timbre" of the bass. You enjoy details and textures in the bass that other amps just don't clarify as well.

Also the sound stage is just right to my ears.  Plenty wide, tall and deep, but also intimate enough for "deep study" sessions.

Cheers...


----------



## koven

Yes GS-X is cold.. too sterile, etchy treble from my experience, similar to original Ragnarok. Much prefer V281 for it's smoothness. Probably the best SS amp to buy at it's second-hand price tier. Sadly I recently sold mine, it proved great with just about any headphone except Susvara which needed more power to reach potential.


----------



## jlbrach

koven said:


> Yes GS-X is cold.. too sterile, etchy treble from my experience, similar to original Ragnarok. Much prefer V281 for it's smoothness. Probably the best SS amp to buy at it's second-hand price tier. Sadly I recently sold mine, it proved great with just about any headphone except Susvara which needed more power to reach potential.


one can certainly suggest there might be better matches for the susvara but certainly the 281 has more than ample power for the susvara or any other HP...


----------



## koven

jlbrach said:


> one can certainly suggest there might be better matches for the susvara but certainly the 281 has more than ample power for the susvara or any other HP...



It was inadequate from my experience, I listen on the louder side though, the HPA4 does much better w/ Susvara than V281.


----------



## jlbrach

not due to a lack of power the 281outputs a fair bit more power than does the HPA4...I suggest you didnt use the 281 balanced out perhaps or you didnt use the gain slider on the back


----------



## koven (Jun 2, 2020)

I believe HPA4 is 6W into 16 ohms. Not sure about V281 but I would guess it's lower just by listening to both.

You're right I didn't use the rear gain though, maybe that was the difference maker.


----------



## jlbrach

281 balanced is a fair bit more powerful


----------



## Ichos

It is not.
V281 balanced is
2700 mW (600 Ohm) | 5600 dBu (100 Ohm) | 4200 mW (50 Ohm) | 2800 mW (32 Ohm) | 1500 mW (16 Ohm)


----------



## gimmeheadroom

JazzVinyl said:


> What I love about my V281 is the controlled treble, never gets out of hand / fatiguing.



Well, try listening to Joni Mitchell over a pair of 800s. No amp in the world is going to help


----------



## S Crowther

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well, try listening to Joni Mitchell over a pair of 800s. No amp in the world is going to help


Maybe the wrong headphone? Try Joni Mitchell on LCD3 or Ultrasone Ed.15. on the V281 or on  the HD800 via a tube or hybrid amp. I use an Xduoo TA-20 with the HD800S.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

S Crowther said:


> Maybe the wrong headphone? Try Joni Mitchell on LCD3 or Ultrasone Ed.15. on the V281 or on  the HD800 via a tube or hybrid amp. I use an Xduoo TA-20 with the HD800S.



I know, it was a joke about the V281 controlling treble enough... hence the smiley joke face


----------



## jlbrach

Ichos said:


> It is not.
> V281 balanced is
> 2700 mW (600 Ohm) | 5600 dBu (100 Ohm) | 4200 mW (50 Ohm) | 2800 mW (32 Ohm) | 1500 mW (16 Ohm)


now do the hp4a at the same levels....


----------



## Ichos

Hp4a is a whole 6watt at 16 Ohm and the Sundaras we are talking about is 60 Ohm.
The hpa4 should be more powerful at 60 Ohm load than the V281.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The power output is not linear though. V281 should output 3,5W into 60 Ohms, the HPA-4 1,6 Watts.


----------



## Ichos

How do you calculate?


----------



## Fegefeuer (Nov 27, 2020)

P=V²/R  - V281 is 4,2W=V²/50 -> 4,2Wx50=V² -> V²=210 -> V=14,49 -> @60Ohm=3,5W

The V281 successor is 6,4@50 Ohms and 5,3W at 60 Ohms, however the current delivery is better with the new generation.
US4+ is 7W@50 Ohms and 5,8W at 60 Ohms. Drives the HE-6 very very well.

Also: Use the gain switches people.


----------



## koven

Guess I missed out on the gain switches, just felt kind of sluggish vs HPA4 at least w/ Susvara.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Fegefeuer said:


> P=V²/R  - V281 is 4,2W=V²/50 -> 4,2Wx50=V² -> V²=210 -> V=14,49 -> @60Ohm=3,5W
> 
> The V281 successor is 5,5W@50 Ohms and 4,6W at 60 Ohms, however the current delivery is better with the new generation.
> US4+ is 7W@50 Ohms and 5,8W at 60 Ohms. Drives the HE-6 very very well.
> ...


Yes!! V281 is designed to power a wide range of headphones specifically through the use of gain switches!! Can’t imagine not using them for the likes of Susvara, HE6, LCD4, etc, not to mention lowering them for high efficiency headphones. Using V281 without gain switches and saying it’s underpowered is like ordering a vodka martini and complaining that your drink has no flavor. 

The HPA4 takes a different approach w/out gain switches. With that amp you gotta turn it way the hell up to hear your headphones, but it also has a digital volume interface and an incredibly clean signal which keeps noise and distortion at inaudible levels even when the amp is pushed to the max. For V281 Fred Reim has recommended setting the volume knob at 12 and adjusting gain and other settings around that to optimize performance. So there are different approaches evident in the design of these amps and they need to be used with that in mind.


----------



## koven

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Yes!! V281 is designed to power a wide range of headphones specifically through the use of gain switches!! Can’t imagine not using them for the likes of Susvara, HE6, LCD4, etc, not to mention lowering them for high efficiency headphones. Using V281 without gain switches and saying it’s underpowered is like ordering a vodka martini and complaining that your drink has no flavor.
> 
> The HPA4 takes a different approach w/out gain switches. With that amp you gotta turn it way the hell up to hear your headphones, but it also has a digital volume interface and an incredibly clean signal which keeps noise and distortion at inaudible levels even when the amp is pushed to the max. For V281 Fred Reim has recommended setting the volume knob at 12 and adjusting gain and other settings around that to optimize performance. So there are different approaches evident in the design of these amps and they need to be used with that in mind.



Touché. Honestly gain switches slipped my mind because I never needed them w/ any other headphone, so my fault for forgetting to try that.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Reality note: gain switching aside, power output by itself does not necessarily equate to better sound. 

My most powerful amp by far is the Audio GD SA-31SE amp/preamp, rated 10W @40 ohms. But both the V281 (w/a little over 1/3 the AGD's power) and the humble M Stage Matrix HPA-1 (w/~1/20th the AGD's power) sound better to me in any number of small ways that actually matter. 

It's an interesting conundrum: while the SA-31SE gets stunningly loud if I crank it--way louder than I or any of my headphones can tolerate--at my usual low-to-medium listening volume, it sounds "quieter" than the V281, for lack of a better word. I think that's down to the V281's epic dynamic capability, but as with all subjective observations, it's hard to be sure.


----------



## Shane D

The pre-gain controls on my V220 are great for using my Grado's. Next up in my testing is the Meze 99 Classic's and I suspect I will be using the same settings (-12).

The Sundara's and the Elex also sound Wonderful out of this amp. I also tried my Fostex TR-610's. They cleaned up as well as any amp could.

One question for you Violectric experts: Does the Balanced in offer any advantage besides increased voltage from the DAC (in my case the DAC is SMSL SU-8)?


----------



## sahmen

Shane D said:


> The pre-gain controls on my V220 are great for using my Grado's. Next up in my testing is the Meze 99 Classic's and I suspect I will be using the same settings (-12).
> 
> The Sundara's and the Elex also sound Wonderful out of this amp. I also tried my Fostex TR-610's. They cleaned up as well as any amp could.
> 
> One question for you Violectric experts: Does the Balanced in offer any advantage besides increased voltage from the DAC (in my case the DAC is SMSL SU-8)?


i'm really glad that the V220 is working out for you.


----------



## Ichos

Shane D said:


> The pre-gain controls on my V220 are great for using my Grado's. Next up in my testing is the Meze 99 Classic's and I suspect I will be using the same settings (-12).
> 
> The Sundara's and the Elex also sound Wonderful out of this amp. I also tried my Fostex TR-610's. They cleaned up as well as any amp could.
> 
> One question for you Violectric experts: Does the Balanced in offer any advantage besides increased voltage from the DAC (in my case the DAC is SMSL SU-8)?



Regarding the amp no because single ended has priority.
It will convert from balanced to single ended always the same applies even for V281.

But if you can then yes use the xlr out from the dac to avoid the extra convertion inside the dac.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Shane D said:


> One question for you Violectric experts: Does the Balanced in offer any advantage besides increased voltage from the DAC (in my case the DAC is SMSL SU-8)?



I shouldn't answer since you directed the question to experts  However I still love my V280.

Balanced does offer advantage on paper of lower noise. And Violectric makes a point to design the circuit correctly and explains a bit in the manual. I'm using balanced. I didn't compare and I don't claim to hear the difference but I like the extra power. And I like using the best things as a general principle.

Balanced cables were not expensive and they are a nice inexpensive upgrade in appearance and handling sometimes.


----------



## Shane D

gimmeheadroom said:


> I shouldn't answer since you directed the question to experts  However I still love my V280.
> 
> Balanced does offer advantage on paper of lower noise. And Violectric makes a point to design the circuit correctly and explains a bit in the manual. I'm using balanced. I didn't compare and I don't claim to hear the difference but I like the extra power. And I like using the best things as a general principle.
> 
> Balanced cables were not expensive and they are a nice inexpensive upgrade in appearance and handling sometimes.



I usually always go the balanced route, if available. However, the V220 does not have balanced out, so I was wondering if the balanced input serves any actual purpose?

Most people will say that XLR is only a true advantage on long runs. And of course most XLR outs have more power. Outside of added voltage from the DAC does XLR bring anything else?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Shane D said:


> I usually always go the balanced route, if available. However, the V220 does not have balanced out, so I was wondering if the balanced input serves any actual purpose?
> 
> Most people will say that XLR is only a true advantage on long runs. And of course most XLR outs have more power. Outside of added voltage from the DAC does XLR bring anything else?



I see. Maybe you could contact Violectric and ask about it. Certainly, noise rejection is better regardless of length of the cable. The debate is whether you need it or not.  In the manual Violectric makes the case that a balanced headphone amp is beneficial and important. If it's not in yours take a look at the PDF of the V280.

BTW XLR is just the type of connector. It does not guarantee a balanced connection or more power etc. Unfortunately many of the THX amps have XLR output but they are not balance. A lot of people are misled.


----------



## Shane D

gimmeheadroom said:


> I see. Maybe you could contact Violectric and ask about it. Certainly, noise rejection is better regardless of length of the cable. The debate is whether you need it or not.  In the manual Violectric makes the case that a balanced headphone amp is beneficial and important. If it's not in yours take a look at the PDF of the V280.
> 
> BTW XLR is just the type of connector. It does not guarantee a balanced connection or more power etc. Unfortunately many of the THX amps have XLR output but they are not balance. A lot of people are misled.



I was just curious. I will probably do an A-B test down the road. I was just wondering about the extra gain an XLR would bring, I assume, by being a higher voltage.

The balanced input actually works better for me physically. I run split cables out my DAC so that I can feed four amps simultaneously and never have to change cables around.


----------



## Shane D

sahmen said:


> i'm really glad that the V220 is working out for you.



It really is very impressive. I have gone through a lot of amps in the last 18 months. I have two for sale and another about to be (SMSL SP200). And the Liquid Spark was relegated to the office. I just can't see selling it.

It appears that my end game amp solution is:

1) Monolith Liquid Platinum. Hybrid and balanced out.

2) Violectric V220. Solid state and SE out.

3) Mapletree Audio Design Ear+ HD II. Amazing tube amp with the right headphones.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Shane D said:


> It really is very impressive. I have gone through a lot of amps in the last 18 months. I have two for sale and another about to be (SMSL SP200). And the Liquid Spark was relegated to the office. I just can't see selling it.
> 
> It appears that my end game amp solution is:
> 
> ...



I need another amp like another hole in the head. But...I'm curious about the Liquid Spark. Do you like it?


----------



## Shane D (Jun 7, 2020)

Deleted - Duplicate


----------



## Shane D

Pharmaboy said:


> I need another amp like another hole in the head. But...I'm curious about the Liquid Spark. Do you like it?



I really do like it. HUGE bang for the buck! I bought an open box for $80.00. My landed cost in Canada was about $155.00, all in. IMO, nothing close to it quality and value wise. Of course if I didn't have an office to delegate it to, then I would probably sell it. It can't outdo my current amps but I love that little guy.

I have said it many times, but I will say it again. If you want a nice system, but don't have any money (young person starting out, single parent or just have more pressing priorities), the Liquid Spark, HD58X's and a D10/D30/E30, new or used would be a Great little system on a budget.


----------



## Ichos

@Shane D 
Balanced only for long runs is an old myth valid for studio stuff but now things have changed.
If your dac or amp is designed to operate fully balanced from the scratch then the sound is going to be better.
Now for the the V220 I explained that it is not necessarily as it is a single ended out.
But your dac is (I think) a fully balanced design so it is going to sound better from the xlr out.
For the single ended it converts so you are loosing something in the process.
Maybe it is not worth it or maybe you can't hear it but it is there.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Shane D said:


> It really is very impressive. I have gone through a lot of amps in the last 18 months. I have two for sale and another about to be (SMSL SP200). And the Liquid Spark was relegated to the office. I just can't see selling it.
> 
> It appears that my end game amp solution is:
> 
> ...



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ic-violectric-v280.934266/

You know you want to


----------



## Shane D

gimmeheadroom said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ic-violectric-v280.934266/
> 
> You know you want to



Want and afford are two different things.

The V280 would have just about $2K, all in, landed in Canada.
I got my used V220 for $1K.
Really enjoyed it all day today with my Grado's!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Shane D said:


> Want and afford are two different things.
> 
> The V280 would have just about $2K, all in, landed in Canada.
> I got my used V220 for $1K.
> Really enjoyed it all day today with my Grado's!



Believe me, I know. We get ripped off all the time here on everything. It's great to be able to buy European gear hear with less hassle though we pay more than Americans for things built in our neighboring countries.


----------



## Shane D

gimmeheadroom said:


> Believe me, I know. We get ripped off all the time here on everything. It's great to be able to buy European gear hear with less hassle though we pay more than Americans for things built in our neighboring countries.



And the above price was only available for a short time through Drop (formerly MassDrop). Regular price for this would be about $2,700.00 for me! The V281 would roll in at $3,600.00.

So, while $1K seemed like a lot of money for a used amp (I had just paid that for a new Liquid Platinum), it was definitely the cheapest option to get into a Violectric.
Which I am enjoying right now with my Meze 99 Classic's. Pre-gain at -12 and volume at 9:30.

This and the Platinum are "end game" for me.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, there's always the Final Edition but today I heard they are selling out very fast and are already at half.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

The V280 is already gone from the German site


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yeah. The last devices go through Drop and that's the end of it.


----------



## Music Path

gimmeheadroom said:


> The V280 is already gone from the German site



Didn't expected it so soon.


----------



## Shane D

Well this was new…


Sitting and listening to my music and it goes quiet. This has happened before and I have to push the XLR input button in as it has changed to RCA input.
This happened like 4 times today and the volume has been going up randomly.
Anybody have any ideas…? (See answer below.)


I emailed the guy I bought it from and a guy named Arthur at Power Holdings Inc.
Arthur has no idea but says he will get back to me in a couple of days.


My seller gets back to me and says that yes that happened to him once.
( I should jump in here and mention that Violectric amps come with a remote).
The previous owner found that his Samsung remote was also talking to his amp! I thanked him and asked my wife, who was on the couch watching TV, to start flicking buttons.
In 60 to 90 seconds my input had changed and the volume had gone up. However, she had not touched the input or volume buttons on the remote (cable company remote). Just a weird sharing of frequencies.
I have Bell coming by Wednesday to install a new system and I can’t wait to get back to Fibreop. However now I am wondering if their remote will do the same tricks.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Shane D said:


> Well this was new…
> 
> 
> Sitting and listening to my music and it goes quiet. This has happened before and I have to push the XLR input button in as it has changed to RCA input.
> ...



OK, this is amazing. It's remarkable that you figured out this occult sonic behavior.  

If there was an award for bizarre audio tales, you would win it!


----------



## Shane D

Pharmaboy said:


> OK, this is amazing. It's remarkable that you figured out this occult sonic behavior.
> 
> If there was an award for bizarre audio tales, you would win it!



I would never have figured it out if the previous owner hadn't pointed me in the right direction. At first I thought a remote was kind of useless. Then I thought it was really cool due to the amps placement in my system. Now the remote seems a like a pain in the ass.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

This is an amazing story, @Shane D . Great job of diagnosing it. I feel you and your wife have a future in tech support


----------



## Shane D

gimmeheadroom said:


> This is an amazing story, @Shane D . Great job of diagnosing it. I feel you and your wife have a future in tech support



My wife did work in a call centre helping people use their insurance apps.  
I have been into computers for 30 years.
But I NEVER would have thought of remote interference if I hadn't been pointed in that direction. I was starting to think I had bought a used lemon and that I was screwed. Very happy with the outcome.


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Jun 12, 2020)

Never heard v281, but had V200 many years ago (7 years I guess?). What I remember is smooth, pleasing warmish sound that never sound muddy.

Currently thinking about create a separate DAC + Amp set up, and start to wondering V281, V280, and Milo (with kozmo vishay upgrade). I'm familiar enough with Milo, liking the sound, but could be too impactful sometimes, especially in asian vocal songs (Eriko Ishihara, Chie Ayado, Emi Fujita, etc). However, I also listen pop, instrument and rock sometimes. Mainly for ZMF, Abyss Diana, Audeze headphones.

Violectric is about 6 years old this year, even they already release new model line up. Is it still a good choice to obtain V281/280 these days?


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jun 12, 2020)

The V280 is a very flexible and clean amp with huge power. I like it a lot for Sennheisers and almost anything else. I have not heard the V281. If you can get either one cheap I don't think it would be a mistake. I bought mine within the past 6 months for full price and I'm disappointed that elsewhere it went for 50% less than I paid, but I still don't feel ripped off.


----------



## Pharmaboy

TheMiddleSky said:


> Is it still a good choice to obtain V281/280 these days?



Yes--absolutely. A solidly engineered & built amp like the V281 -- that also is quite powerful & sounds great -- doesn't really go out of style.

I have 7 amps currently; also had-then-sold another 2-3. The V281 is my clear favorite. I say this not just based on my subjective personal taste (everyone hears things differently)--but also for 3 practical reasons:

I've used the V281 with many headphones, over 10 by now. Most of the time I get sound that is at least well above average; often the sound is spectacular. So the V281 works well with just about every headphone.
The V281 has an unusual degree/extent of input/output flexibility & gain adjustment. It's not just my best headphone amp--but also is my favorite preamp for the entire desktop system.
Finally, the form factor is compact & practical. My desktop system is crowded but the V281 fits in w/no trouble. Other TOTL Violectric amps, including the Nimbus & new V590, are considerably wider & less tall. I couldn't fit either of those designs on my desktop (also couldn't afford either). 
(just my 2 cents, for what it's worth)


----------



## Shane D (Jun 14, 2020)

TheMiddleSky said:


> Never heard v281, but had V200 many years ago (7 years I guess?). What I remember is smooth, pleasing warmish sound that never sound muddy.
> 
> Currently thinking about create a separate DAC + Amp set up, and start to wondering V281, V280, and Milo (with kozmo vishay upgrade). I'm familiar enough with Milo, liking the sound, but could be too impactful sometimes, especially in asian vocal songs (Eriko Ishihara, Chie Ayado, Emi Fujita, etc). However, I also listen pop, instrument and rock sometimes. Mainly for ZMF, Abyss Diana, Audeze headphones.
> 
> Violectric is about 6 years old this year, even they already release new model line up. Is it still a good choice to obtain V281/280 these days?



I am late to the game, but I just picked up a used V220 recently and the sound is Really nice. I have gone through several amps recently (I currently have 2 up for sale), but I think I am at end game status now. I have a Liquid Platinum for great balanced output and a V220 for great SE output. Perhaps with a balanced V280/V281 that would truly be all you need. Tons of power and lots of flexibility with pre-gain options.
I also have a nice, newish tube amp which might just turn out to be a bit too specialized.

I didn't know anything about Violectric (I'm in Canada), but I am Really impressed. A balanced unit, with pre-gain, could certainly be your one amp solution to cover all bases.


----------



## Fegefeuer

V281 is only available in FE if you want it new. Else wait for successor then go for a used one in hope of someone letting theirs go for it.


----------



## musicus

Fegefeuer said:


> V281 is only available in FE if you want it new. Else wait for successor then go for a used one in hope of someone letting theirs go for it.



What is FE?


----------



## AudioPowerHead

musicus said:


> What is FE?


Final Edition.


----------



## Pharmaboy

The G109-A was my very 1st serious amp...until I bought it, I'd been powering my Fidelio X2s with the humble but competent FiiO e10k (which I still use for travel).

The 1st time I fired up the G109 driving the X2s from an inexpensive d/s DAC, it was one of those "*WT**F**!*" moments of audio bliss. For the first time I heard some of the clarity & dynamics I'd gotten used to w/2-channel speaker/sub systems.

By the time I got the V281, I'd already stocked up w/another 3-4 amps (I was an amp 'ho before ever losing my mind on multiple headphones). Anyway, the virtues of the V281 were revealed to me gradually, first via speakers + sub, then headphones. It really is the same basic sonic profile as the G109--but balanced, even more dynamic, and bigger overall.

Obviously I'm a fan of the Lake People/Violectric "house sound." BTW, never managed to hear the G103. I'm told it's a little more flat/neutral sounding than the G109.


----------



## Simple Man

I’ve tried a few other amps and these were all not what I expected from a good headamp. Too much base, less control, fake and tight soundstge. After listening to the Chord Dave at my local HeadFi shop I found what I want, but.....
this was a bit pricey for me, I think for most of us. I wish I could afford it but I cannot.
A few days later the owner let me listen a HD800s with the V280 and when I went home this was also what I seriously enjoyed. So later I came back with money. 
Never regreted this purchase and I think I never will.
some time later I had the change to buy a motorized V281 for a fair price. This one sounds even better, more control and a better sounsstage with some more details, not much and definitely not with all recordings. Maybe best notable with great 70’s records!
I listen often to vinyl and I use the the V281 for it. It has analog inputs which I’m most happy with.
These two amps are gonna stay, both. The V280 has the coax Violectric DAC built in now and is used next to my computer and is just the way I like it. 
so, if you have the change to grab one of these amps if you want one, DO IT, and enjoy your music in a new way!!


----------



## Fegefeuer

V281 and V280 have reached EOL.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> V281 and V280 have reached EOL.


Think they certainly are legendary classics in Violectric’ amp history; just like the HD600 and 650. Of course, the next gen is likely to surpass them, let’s see(hear).


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> It's all relative. If I hadn't stumbled onto the V281 as the ideal desktop amp/preamp for me, I would be delighted to have a V280.



Stumbled is the right word! Those 281s look like


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Fegefeuer said:


> V281 and V280 have reached EOL.



The king is dead, long live the king!


----------



## Swisshead (Jun 17, 2020)

Yes, soon the new models should come! What I would be very interested in then would be the V380! Does anyone know more about when they will appear and what they will cost?

I would like to have an upgrade to the iFi micro iDSD BL at my 2nd workstation! I would also like to have a 4-pin XLR connector! Bluetooth and other unnecessary stuff I don't need.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Swisshead said:


> Yes, soon the new models should come! What I would be very interested in then would be the V380! Does anyone know more about when they will appear and what they will cost?



Open your wallet, sit down, and be quiet


----------



## Simple Man

I’m interested in the new stuff as new stuff, just curious about the new steps and/or development they made.
For me my amps are End Game.
I think.


----------



## S Crowther

gimmeheadroom said:


> Open your wallet, sit down, and be quiet


Why not get the Niimbus?


----------



## Fegefeuer (Jun 17, 2020)

Swisshead said:


> Yes, soon the new models should come! What I would be very interested in then would be the V380! Does anyone know more about when they will appear and what they will cost?
> 
> I would like to have an upgrade to the iFi micro iDSD BL at my 2nd workstation! I would also like to have a 4-pin XLR connector! Bluetooth and other unnecessary stuff I don't need.



Yes, it will have 4-PIN XLR. No idea about the release. Safe guess is autumn and the price should be around 2XXX.


----------



## buzzlulu

If the V281 is fed single ended with RCA's will the amplifier internally convert to fully balanced?
The GSX MK2 will not (and effectively only 1/2 the amp will be used) while the new GSX Mini can do this (which is why I bought it)


----------



## Ichos

The V281 converts single ended to balanced.
To be more precise it even converts balanced to single ended and then again to balanced.
That is it's working principle.
Single ended in has priority.


----------



## buzzlulu

Thank you


----------



## Hooster

Fegefeuer said:


> Yes, it will have 4-PIN XLR. No idea about the release. Safe guess is autumn and the price should be around 2XXX.



Looks ok, but why in the world would they put a dac in there that will be obsolete in a few months?


----------



## Ichos

Because there are a lot of users nowadays that prefer all in one solutions.
Good dac implementations they not become obsolete in a few months rather they are future proof.
My dual AD1955 dac can easily compete with recent sabres and AKMs.


----------



## Hooster

Ichos said:


> Because there are a lot of users nowadays that prefer all in one solutions.
> Good dac implementations they not become obsolete in a few months rather they are future proof.
> My dual AD1955 dac can easily compete with recent sabres and AKMs.



There will always be someone who wants this, but people who buy hifi gear in this price category normally value flexibility and future proofing more than the kind of convenience offered by an all in one solution. This will be very hard to sell once the DAC is considered to be obsolete, something that may happen very soon after this product is launched. I have had a headphone amplifier with a built in DAC but these days I avoid that kind of product since keeping up to date is of more value to me than convenience.

I suppose this discussion is moot since Violectric will surely produce another version with no on board dac.


----------



## Ichos

I believe that they have done their marketing research.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Lake People are thankfully not into meme dacs but great analog design/outputs. It's not for the Topping crowd who chase after chips like it's a new GPU.


----------



## Ichos

As I wrote two posts above

"Good dac implementations they not become obsolete in a few months rather they are future proof"

And surely Fried and his team are up to this task.


----------



## phonomat

Hooster said:


> Looks ok, but why in the world would they put a dac in there that will be obsolete in a few months?


So you switch DACs every few months?


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Ichos said:


> As I wrote two posts above
> 
> "Good dac implementations they not become obsolete in a few months rather they are future proof"
> 
> And surely Fried and his team are up to this task.



Agree, it's ridiculous judge sound quality of DAC only based on chip inside. It's way way more complex than just a chip. We talk about matching hundred/thousand components to create one beautiful sound. DAC is not smartphone, or CPU processor.


----------



## Hooster

Fegefeuer said:


> Lake People are thankfully not into meme dacs but *great analog design/outputs*. It's not for the Topping crowd who chase after chips like it's a new GPU.



I could not have said it any better. They should stick to what they are good at.


----------



## buzzlulu

Is Arthur the only place to buy in the US? I’ve been trying to get in touch for the last two days however no answer. Are there any other dealers perhaps someone with a return policy?


----------



## Fegefeuer

buzzlulu said:


> Is Arthur the only place to buy in the US? I’ve been trying to get in touch for the last two days however no answer. Are there any other dealers perhaps someone with a return policy?



@TSAVAlan


----------



## TSAVAlan

Hey, unfortunately TSAV is no longer a Violectric dealer. Still have just a few demo pieces around we have left we are still looking to sell off.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

buzzlulu said:


> Is Arthur the only place to buy in the US? I’ve been trying to get in touch for the last two days however no answer. Are there any other dealers perhaps someone with a return policy?


I had experienced the best in customer service from Arthur. Suggest you give him bit of time to get back to you.


----------



## ArthurPower

Most of you are probably aware by now the V281 is being discontinued. This model has been hugely successful and I'm sure will carry a legacy for many years to come. I just want to thank everybody who's purchased one over the years. There are only a few Final Edition V281 left. I hope they go to a good home.


----------



## buzzlulu

I purchased the second to last V281 from Arthur yesterday and a friend in California purchased the remaining one.
I guess after the FE's go they will be done.  Quite a few of us on the Naim 2 channel forum are using these.

Kudos to Arthur.  A gentleman and excellent and attentive provider of fine service!


----------



## Fegefeuer




----------



## Pharmaboy

buzzlulu said:


> Kudos to Arthur. A gentleman and excellent and attentive provider of fine service!



+1 to that!


----------



## Scutey

Go a V 281 on the way, hopefully tomorrow, didn't realise production had ceased, looking forward to giving it a go!.


----------



## Law87

not a V850 thread but does anyone know a similar DAC sound signature to the V850 that will pair well with V281?


----------



## bluecar

It will be a real shame when this is discontinued - being able to buy a V281 is a bit like having access to heavy-calibre artillery - you don't always need it, but it's reassuring to have the option just in case...looking forward to what Lake People do next..


----------



## Lucky87

ArthurPower said:


> Most of you are probably aware by now the V281 is being discontinued. This model has been hugely successful and I'm sure will carry a legacy for many years to come. I just want to thank everybody who's purchased one over the years. There are only a few Final Edition V281 left. I hope they go to a good home.



I am glad I purchased mine and thank you for a outstanding amp.


----------



## Shane D

ArthurPower said:


> Most of you are probably aware by now the V281 is being discontinued. This model has been hugely successful and I'm sure will carry a legacy for many years to come. I just want to thank everybody who's purchased one over the years. There are only a few Final Edition V281 left. I hope they go to a good home.



Any info on it's replacement? Specs? Launch date? Anything?


----------



## Law87

Shane D said:


> Any info on it's replacement? Specs? Launch date? Anything?




its already out....

https://power-holdings-inc.com/Violectric-V590-Headphone-Amp-DAC-p202322694


----------



## Shane D

Law87 said:


> its already out....
> 
> https://power-holdings-inc.com/Violectric-V590-Headphone-Amp-DAC-p202322694



Thank you! I saw that recently, but for some reason it didn't register.


----------



## Fegefeuer

V590 is the successor with a fullsize dac in one case. The standalone amp should release in autumn.


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Fegefeuer said:


> V590 is the successor with a fullsize dac in one case. The standalone amp should release in autumn.


Do open new threads for new V5XX standalone amp when they become available in Autumn


----------



## Kim Kiddo

I got one of the FE editions! Looks nice with the silver trim and on the front beneath the volume knob it says "Final Edition". As far as I know, That's the only difference I know of. If there are others, spill the beans please! Yes, it came with the usb XMOS DAC which doesn't sound bad at all. But the best part of this amp is buying it from Arthur


----------



## Pharmaboy

Kim Kiddo said:


> I got one of the FE editions! Looks nice with the silver trim and on the front beneath the volume knob it says "Final Edition". As far as I know, That's the only difference I know of. If there are others, spill the beans please! Yes, it came with the usb XMOS DAC which doesn't sound bad at all. But the best part of this amp is buying it from Arthur



Buying an amp from Arthur is definitely a good experience. But I suspect you'll find the best part of all is hearing the V281 (it's a killer amp). 

Don't forget to burn it in. Kind of a controversial subject here, but I've always found electronics sound better after burn-in.


----------



## Shane D

I am loving my V220 more all the time. I recently picked up another set of headphones and used them on the V220 to get a feel for them. The sound is so clear and clean. And the bass is substantial, when called upon. And that is with Senn HD660's.

Today I want to see if they can "scale up" with a tube amp. I volume matched the V220 and the tube amp to within 1/10th of a decible. Only one problem: I can not find one single song where the tube amp sounds better.

I am so glad that I took the advice of someone I trust and bought this used amp. I might even start thinking about selling my tube amp. This amp just does Everything so well.

Very curious to hear what Drop users think about their V280's.


----------



## Ichos

What is your tube amp?


----------



## Shane D

Ichos said:


> What is your tube amp?



It is an Ear+ HD II by Mapletree Audio Design, a small company in Canada.


----------



## thecrow

buzzlulu said:


> Is Arthur the only place to buy in the US? I’ve been trying to get in touch for the last two days however no answer. Are there any other dealers perhaps someone with a return policy?


Fyi: There’s a v280 Now on the classifieds at a great price that i saw


----------



## elisiX

My V281 FE just arrived today! Keen to get it home and fire it up.

I'd been using a friends modded V281 for the past week, but it's nice to finally have my own.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nice, looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## elisiX (Aug 10, 2020)

Well i've just setup the V281 FE and I'm just blown away by this device. The aesthetics alone have me excited, but the sound with the Empyrean is just amazing.

Something I didn't realise about the Final Edition is that the body casing is done in black - like an anodised black aluminium. The regular V281 has a dark grey rough surface which when borrowing a friends unit recently, I wasn't that keen on. This black finish on the FE matches the RME ADI-2 perfectly and they look amazing together (I've paired my RME with V281 and Hugo 2 with WA2).

I've immediately plugged in my Empyrean as I haven't heard them in a few days and it's such a nice contrast to the Utopia/WA2/Hugo 2 and Stellia/Hugo 2 combinations i've been listening to this past weekend and at work today. The Empyrean just sounds so calm and easy and I am really happy I went with the Utopia/Empyrean pairing, even more so that i've found an AMP that works for both.

I haven't yet given the V281 DAC a go but I will get to that this week.


----------



## thecrow

Simple Man said:


> I wait, for now, , till I find a nice priced v850.
> Difficult yo find at this moment.
> someone maybe?


on drop now


----------



## Pharmaboy

elisiX said:


> Well i've just setup the V281 FE and I'm just blown away by this device. The aesthetics alone have me excited, but the sound with the Empyrean is just amazing.
> 
> Something I didn't realise about the Final Edition is that the body casing is done in black - like an anodised black aluminium. The regular V281 has a dark grey rough surface which when borrowing a friends unit recently, I wasn't that keen on. This black finish on the FE matches the RME ADI-2 perfectly and they look amazing together (I've paired my RME with V281 and Hugo 2 with WA2).
> 
> ...



I heard the Empyrean at length on my V281. It was the best sound I got from that headphone...

Love my V281. It's so exceptional IMO that I don't have a back-up plan...can't find anything else in its category, certainly nothing with the V281's flexible I/O & gain settings.


----------



## elisiX

Pharmaboy said:


> I heard the Empyrean at length on my V281. It was the best sound I got from that headphone...
> 
> Love my V281. It's so exceptional IMO that I don't have a back-up plan...can't find anything else in its category, certainly nothing with the V281's flexible I/O & gain settings.



What cable were you using?

Also which DAC did you pair it with?

Finally, leather or alcantara?


----------



## Simple Man

thecrow said:


> on drop now


Thanks.
yes I’ve seen that. I seems I need to make an account first before I can see the price.
I live next to Germany and hope they can send it from there to my homeadres and not twice trough customs.


----------



## Pharmaboy

elisiX said:


> What cable were you using?
> 
> Also which DAC did you pair it with?
> 
> Finally, leather or alcantara?



At the time I had 2 DACs (2 systems): Audio GD NOS 19 in main system; Audio  GD DAC-19 in secondary system. 

I used both sets of pads and liked each set for slightly different reasons. 

The cable was my favorite aftermarket cable: 2M ForzaAudioWorks HCP Noir MKII (balanced). For SE amps, I attached the handy FAW "pigtail" (4-pin XLR female jack on HP side; 6.35mm jack on amp side). 

I suppose it's possible these DACs were all wrong for the Empyrean. Perhaps it would still be in my stable if I'd had sharper-sounding delta-sigma DAC. Then again, I never liked the D/S sound and don't wish to go back...


----------



## Shane D

elisiX said:


> Well i've just setup the V281 FE and I'm just blown away by this device. The aesthetics alone have me excited, but the sound with the Empyrean is just amazing.
> 
> Something I didn't realise about the Final Edition is that the body casing is done in black - like an anodised black aluminium. The regular V281 has a dark grey rough surface which when borrowing a friends unit recently, I wasn't that keen on. This black finish on the FE matches the RME ADI-2 perfectly and they look amazing together (I've paired my RME with V281 and Hugo 2 with WA2).
> 
> ...


That looks like a near perfect set-up!


----------



## Shane D

Simple Man said:


> Thanks.
> yes I’ve seen that. I seems I need to make an account first before I can see the price.
> I live next to Germany and hope they can send it from there to my homeadres and not twice trough customs.



I don't think Drop does Europe. There has been MUCH discussion on the topic.


----------



## Simple Man

I’ve send an email to Violectric on their website to ask if it possible to send from Germany or via my local seller but No answer yet.


----------



## Music Path

Simple Man said:


> I’ve send an email to Violectric on their website to ask if it possible to send from Germany or via my local seller but No answer yet.


Drop won´t allow that, it´s improbable. IMO


----------



## 340519

elisiX said:


> Well i've just setup the V281 FE and I'm just blown away by this device. The aesthetics alone have me excited, but the sound with the Empyrean is just amazing.
> 
> Something I didn't realise about the Final Edition is that the body casing is done in black - like an anodised black aluminium. The regular V281 has a dark grey rough surface which when borrowing a friends unit recently, I wasn't that keen on. This black finish on the FE matches the RME ADI-2 perfectly and they look amazing together (I've paired my RME with V281 and Hugo 2 with WA2).
> 
> ...


Very pretty!


----------



## Viszla

Simple Man said:


> I’ve send an email to Violectric on their website to ask if it possible to send from Germany or via my local seller but No answer yet.


I had a question And send an email to - i think lakepeople - and got 1 day later a answer. I dont know if the FE is selling here in Germany. Maybe you ask Mr. Boss Vipexclusive - i bought my 281 from him. Full adress see on Ebay de when you search for meze Emphi.


----------



## jamesng45678

I have just bought the V281 FE. It is such a great amplifier with lots of control to the overall sound. I have the mytek brooklyn dac + connected to the V281 and the sound is just magnificent.




I use my V281 as a preamp to feed my Wells audio Milo and the sound is amazing too. There is a Lehmann audio linear usb that uses the Mytek Brooklyn Dac + rca output too. The V281 is really build like a tank and output an amazing sound to all my headphones. ( HD800, HD800S, LCD3 and T90)


----------



## elisiX

jamesng45678 said:


> I have just bought the V281 FE. It is such a great amplifier with lots of control to the overall sound. I have the mytek brooklyn dac + connected to the V281 and the sound is just magnificent.
> 
> I use my V281 as a preamp to feed my Wells audio Milo and the sound is amazing too. There is a Lehmann audio linear usb that uses the Mytek Brooklyn Dac + rca output too. The V281 is really build like a tank and output an amazing sound to all my headphones. ( HD800, HD800S, LCD3 and T90)



I’m considering replacing my RME ADI-2 with the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ for my V281, so it’s nice to hear your impressions. I’ll be taking my RME to a local shop to try back to back with the DAC+ first. I wonder what is the better DAC pairing with the V281?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

jamesng45678 said:


> I have just bought the V281 FE. It is such a great amplifier with lots of control to the overall sound. I have the mytek brooklyn dac + connected to the V281 and the sound is just magnificent.
> 
> I use my V281 as a preamp to feed my Wells audio Milo and the sound is amazing too. There is a Lehmann audio linear usb that uses the Mytek Brooklyn Dac + rca output too. The V281 is really build like a tank and output an amazing sound to all my headphones. ( HD800, HD800S, LCD3 and T90)



Your setup is similar to mine somewhat 



elisiX said:


> I’m considering replacing my RME ADI-2 with the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ for my V281, so it’s nice to hear your impressions. I’ll be taking my RME to a local shop to try back to back with the DAC+ first. I wonder what is the better DAC pairing with the V281?



For me the difference is not sound although if I really push myself I can imagine the RME is *tiny* bit more musical and the Brooklyn is *tiny* bit more analytical. But most of the time no difference appears to me except in build quality and UI.

I love the RME but it is a bit fiddly and it is light so it moves around on the table or rack when you push the buttons. That's very annoying. Compared to it the Brooklyn is a brick, it stays where you put it. It feels like it is something special. I love the build quality and the display and the UI is much simpler and faster to use for me. It does MQA which the RME does not, but the RME has EQ which is very important but the Brooklyn does not. So I'm keeping both. Another thing I like about the Brooklyn is the display has both sample rate and bit depth while the RME displays only sample rate.


----------



## elisiX

gimmeheadroom said:


> For me the difference is not sound although if I really push myself I can imagine the RME is *tiny* bit more musical and the Brooklyn is *tiny* bit more analytical. But most of the time no difference appears to me except in build quality and UI.
> 
> I love the RME but it is a bit fiddly and it is light so it moves around on the table or rack when you push the buttons. That's very annoying. Compared to it the Brooklyn is a brick, it stays where you put it. It feels like it is something special. I love the build quality and the display and the UI is much simpler and faster to use for me. It does MQA which the RME does not, but the RME has EQ which is very important but the Brooklyn does not. So I'm keeping both. Another thing I like about the Brooklyn is the display has both sample rate and bit depth while the RME displays only sample rate.



I was hoping someone who owns both would reply 

I don't really have a need for both the RME and Brooklyn, and while I initially thought the EQ features mattered a lot to me on the RME, I find I don't use them. I was using low/high shelf on the front of the RME from time to time with my Utopia to boost/flatten them with my old Audio GD D28.38, but moving to the V281 and WA2 I feel has removed the need to do this anymore. The RME being a 5 band EQ with low/high shelf, I always felt like it wasn't really going far enough to EQ properly. Oratory1990's Utopia presets did nothing for me, but the HD650 presets were great. 

Brooklyn having MQA, while I know this is a touchy subject, is a nice feature of the Brooklyn. I'd be happy to make the switch, though I just want to be sure hat the Brooklyn is at least as good from a sound quality perspective.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

elisiX said:


> I was hoping someone who owns both would reply
> 
> I don't really have a need for both the RME and Brooklyn, and while I initially thought the EQ features mattered a lot to me on the RME, I find I don't use them. I was using low/high shelf on the front of the RME from time to time with my Utopia to boost/flatten them with my old Audio GD D28.38, but moving to the V281 and WA2 I feel has removed the need to do this anymore. The RME being a 5 band EQ with low/high shelf, I always felt like it wasn't really going far enough to EQ properly. Oratory1990's Utopia presets did nothing for me, but the HD650 presets were great.
> 
> Brooklyn having MQA, while I know this is a touchy subject, is a nice feature of the Brooklyn. I'd be happy to make the switch, though I just want to be sure hat the Brooklyn is at least as good from a sound quality perspective.



For me the RME EQ is very helpful. If I had only the Brooklyn I would probably not be able to use my Fostex and I would have to be even more selective with my 800s. If you set it up and save the settings it reduces the annoyance of twiddling. I don't EQ anything else.

The Brooklyn MQA is superb, I never get dropouts of MQA songs or albums, but I also experience no dropouts over my Oppo 205 or node 2i. I have read of problems with every other affordable DAC, so if you want good MQA support it is a top choice in the price range. The screen and UI is beautiful, and the build quality makes you feel like you didn't waste your money. The Brooklyn is easily as good as the RME in terms of sound, maybe just a tiny bit different. I don't listen to my gear critically but I do pick up things sometimes while listening.


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 12, 2020)

elisiX said:


> I’m considering replacing my RME ADI-2 with the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ for my V281, so it’s nice to hear your impressions. I’ll be taking my RME to a local shop to try back to back with the DAC+ first. I wonder what is the better DAC pairing with the V281?


I will also throw in a word for the superb Musical Fidelity MX-DAC, which is cheaper than all of the above DACs but throws a superb soundstage with incredibly precise sound without being harsh [important to me as an hd8xx fan]; best reproduction of neutral I have heard to date.  No MQA, but does the most important stuff pcm24/192 & DSD64/128.  No frills features, all about the sound quality. Built like a tank.


----------



## Ichos

I have reviewed it for the magazine and i can contribute that it is a very good linear sounding dac.
Highly recommend.


----------



## ruinedx

Ichos said:


> I have reviewed it for the magazine and i can contribute that it is a very good linear sounding dac.
> Highly recommend.


Which are you referring to?


----------



## Ichos

The Musical Fidelity MX Dac.
Unfortunately the review isn't available online.


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 12, 2020)

Ichos said:


> The Musical Fidelity MX Dac.
> Unfortunately the review isn't available online.


Ah ok. Yes its my favorite DAC, the only dac I've ever sold and then re-bought out of regret for losing its fantastic sound and functional design.

IMO MX-DAC is better than Musical Fidelity's current stuff which is much larger, more expensive, and doesn't sound better despite having better paper specs. The way MF implemented the BB PCM1795 in the mx dac is something special and the form factor is spectacular for a desktop setup


----------



## Ichos

One last of topic.
My conclusion of MX DAC (Google translated)

"
Music Fidelity with the MX DAC has made a device that perfectly combines sound quality, construction, size and price.
It is the golden section for those who are looking for something to get away from the introductory series of the market and want a sound that is actually better at a friendly price but without being deprived of much quality.
We were particularly impressed by the sound and it is one of the few two or three DACs that really stand out in this price range.
We highly recommend it and you should definitely listen to it as it offers a sound much higher than the price it asks for.'


----------



## Simple Man

I’ve been searching for a fair priced V850 for a few months now. 
now drop has a nice offer but I live in Europe and my queen wants a bit of my wallet when I buy something for my hobby. So it will bribg me back about €250-300 with this offer. 
Now my dealer made me a very attempting offer. 
A Chord Qutest!
I’ve heard the Chords before, Dave, Hugo and I was very impressed. Also by the price. The biggest con imho. Ugly/not pretty also but...
So I think I go for this one, I can’t wait forever 😉
I never heard the V850 live but I thought it looks nice with the 280 and 281. 
Is one of you familiar with these amps with the Qutest?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

You already have an amp?


----------



## Simple Man

Both. The 280 is including the Violectric dac


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Simple Man said:


> Both. The 280 is including the Violectric dac



I would recommend the RME but I have not heard the Qutest.


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 14, 2020)

Simple Man said:


> I’ve been searching for a fair priced V850 for a few months now.
> now drop has a nice offer but I live in Europe and my queen wants a bit of my wallet when I buy something for my hobby. So it will bribg me back about €250-300 with this offer.
> Now my dealer made me a very attempting offer.
> A Chord Qutest!
> ...



IMO both the Qutest and V850 have some pretty notable disadvantages given both are over $1000. The Qutest lacks balanced output (for noise rejection) and the V850 lacks DSD (DSF downloads seem to be a little more popular now).  

While the v850 is the obvious visual match to the v280/v281, it's not always the best idea to lock yourself into such an odd form factor no other devices remotely come close to. If one of the two units breaks you'd be stuck trying to replace with something in same form factor which only violectric uses to maintain the look - note violectric new product 590 does not use this form factor, and current line going out of production

IMO a better buy is either Musical Fidelity MX DAC [pcm1795] or RME DAC [akm4493] . The former is cheaper and a bit more visually appealing while the latter is a bit more expensive but has more features. Both produce great sound though and support pcm&dsd decoding + balanced output. Monolith Cavalli liquid platinum DAC using akm4499 and balanced out coming out later in year also for $499 which seems a great value but could be a long wait


----------



## Simple Man

gimmeheadroom said:


> I would recommend the RME but I have not heard the Qutest.


I’ve heard the RME but was not impressed, good, but not the “i need to heve this” factor. 
Chord is the brand I don’t want cause it’s ugly, but it keeps ‘chewing your mind’


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 14, 2020)

Simple Man said:


> I’ve heard the RME but was not impressed, good, but not the “i need to heve this” factor.
> Chord is the brand I don’t want cause it’s ugly, but it keeps ‘chewing your mind’



Try the MX DAC then. It's $750-$850 street price brand new,  not a huge investment. Musical Fidelity invented the outboard DAC in 1989 so you can be confident they know what they are doing

Also keep in mind the v280/v281 is going to impart its own color on the audio since they lean warmer and this won't necessarily sound the same with the chord as when you heard the chord demo through another system. Sometimes layering too much color and the sound is veiled.

The RME and MX DAC are a bit closer to neutral than the chord, so you'll hear more of the violectric sound sig and less of the DAC sound sig.


----------



## gonzfi

What about the Musical Fidelity M1 dac? Old but decent?


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 14, 2020)

gonzfi said:


> What about the Musical Fidelity M1 dac? Old but decent?


M1dac - No DSD support and no 24/192 support over USB . Max 24/96 PCM over usb. also might have a tough time with windows drivers given its age. Also much larger than MX DAC without much functionality gain. -119db SNR technically better than -116db on mx dac since uses 2 dacs in differential but more likely to lose sound quality on file format downconversion due to M1dac not supporting all the major download formats (no 24/192pcm, DSD64, dsd128) over usb 

MX dac is USB audio class 2 and works with windows 10 Microsoft drivers. Supports up to 24/192 PCM over usb and up to dsd128 over usb.


----------



## Simple Man

I never seriously listened to these dac’s. 
But tbh I don’t think they reach the same level in SQ as the Chord will. Not only because of the price but also the r&d of Chord which is on a very high level and more recent.


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 14, 2020)

Simple Man said:


> I never seriously listened to these dac’s.
> But tbh I don’t think they reach the same level in SQ as the Chord will. Not only because of the price but also the r&d of Chord which is on a very high level and more recent.


TBH the process of digital to analog conversion was mastered a long time ago. There has really been no new discoveries. All they have done is upped the sampling rate in DAC chips to 384khz, when 192khz was already overkill. No other manufacturer has more experience with DACs than musical fidelity - they were literally the first company to release one.

Re: "newer tech," ironically the most expensive DACs these days have went back to using old R2R ladder technology, not newer tech, with some believing this sounds more natural than newer delta sigma technology.

If chord sounds significantly different its probably because they are altering the output in a way they believe is sonically pleasing, though likely less accurate. While there is a decent argument for doing this, it's questionable whether the DAC is really the component to do this with. For instance , violectric had already done this with the v281. So now you are going to take chords coloring and mix it with violectrics coloring... and then the coloring of your headphones/speakers. Will all the coloration sound good? I have no idea. The MX DAC and RME are born relatively neutral so it's one less layer of coloration for the system.  If your amp and headphones were both neutral it might be a good idea to buy a DAC with coloration, but v281 isnt neutral

It bothers me chord didn't put balanced out on qutest. Seems like they did on purpose as a differentiator for their higher priced stuff, but just comes off as poor value.


----------



## Simple Man

I think your right at a few points.
In the beginning of the digital music recordings, the digital parts in a CD player changed really fast because they were getting better and better.
My understanding is/was this was still going on but not sa fast anymore.
The coloration thing was for me the main reason to choose for te V850. Not because I know it is way better than.... the others.
The V850 has the XLR connection which I would like to have, I believe in it but never noticed it is really better sounding in all situations.
Yes, this is a miss on the Chord!
TBH I never liked the looks of Chord. Still don't do, but I was so impressed by the sound that it keeps me busy. 
Before I buy, I need to try it again, see how I think about it now. But, I have to say, the Dave is for me the ultimate headphone dac/amp. Dave has another problem so I know this will not be mine soon......
When I'm gonna try the Qutest I'll make sure it can be done in my own set up.


----------



## ruinedx (Aug 15, 2020)

Simple Man said:


> I think your right at a few points.
> In the beginning of the digital music recordings, the digital parts in a CD player changed really fast because they were getting better and better.
> My understanding is/was this was still going on but not sa fast anymore.
> The coloration thing was for me the main reason to choose for te V850. Not because I know it is way better than.... the others.
> ...



The main advantage of XLR is the noise rejection properties, so you often get a lower noise floor. If you ever plan to connect the DAC to a PC at any point in time, XLR is head and shoulders better than RCA (far better than any coloration could be). Sucks to have a $1000+ DAC with buzzing/hissing because it lacks XLR. Then again for non PC setups it may not be as critical, but still very disappointing it doesn't have it

Re coloration the RME is the most neutral of the group. The MF is slightly warmed up to take the digital edge off but not massively. The chord is more colored than the MF, tho as a result MF has slightly more detail.  I haven't heard the v850 and don't know where it falls but I've heard reports like yours that it has color, don't like it lacks DSD as I've found programs that do internal dsd conversion to pcm don't sound as good as DACs that decode it.

I guess one thing in the v850 favor is the coloration should synergize well with the v281 since designed to use together. Plus it has XLR. Sucks no DSD. But i personally would take the v850 over the qutest solely for the XLR if I could only pick between those two


----------



## godmax

So you think the v281 is still worth picking up, even it has reached EOL and there might be a direct successor appear soon (not the v590 or v380)?
Even I already have a GS-X mini, I consider buying the v281 FE as an additional setup.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Aug 19, 2020)

godmax said:


> So you think the v281 is still worth picking up, even it has reached EOL and there might be a direct successor appear soon (not the v590 or v380)?
> Even I already have a GS-X mini, I consider buying the v281 FE as an additional setup.



Not just yes...HELL YES!. Here's why I say that:

I love the sound of the V281. It's very distinctive: slight warmth, great bass, epic dynamics. Maybe the most musical SS amp I've yet heard (and I've heard many)
The input/output flexibility & separate/granular gain adjustments for headphone vs preamp outputs is unlike anything I've seen in any other amp/preamp
And the form factor is ideal for my space-constrained desktop. The successor model has the more traditional flatter/wider dimensions & would be hard for me to fit IMS (even if I could afford it).
I've read scattered comments to the effect that the 2 TOTL amp/preamps above the V281 (the next one up the model line being the new replacement for V281) sound more "neutral" and resolving than the V281. Without hearing either of those models, I can only speculate. But my experience in this hobby is that more "neutrality" & greater resolution very often = a less musical, ear-friendly sound.

BTW, I'm a big Violectric fanboy--I own 2 of their products, love them both, and am very impressed w/Fried & Arthur--so what I _really_ want is to hear that these higher models best the V281 in every category--meaning I should sell a kidney and get one. I'm very interested in reading full-scale reviews & many more user comments about both big/bad newer models


----------



## jcoldrey

Hi all, just received my v281 Final Edition and it's sounding great. One niggle: this unit has the regular volume pot and sometimes (not always) when I turn it, there's a light scratching sound. Not through the headphones - on or inside the unit itself, as if a couple of things are lightly rubbing against one another. Only happens sometimes, not always, and does not seem to affect the sound at all. 

Does anyone else have this issue? Sounds like something's not quite fitted properly.


----------



## elisiX

jcoldrey said:


> Hi all, just received my v281 Final Edition and it's sounding great. One niggle: this unit has the regular volume pot and sometimes (not always) when I turn it, there's a light scratching sound. Not through the headphones - on or inside the unit itself, as if a couple of things are lightly rubbing against one another. Only happens sometimes, not always, and does not seem to affect the sound at all.
> 
> Does anyone else have this issue? Sounds like something's not quite fitted properly.



FE here and mine is fine. Very smooth.


----------



## jcoldrey

elisiX said:


> FE here and mine is fine. Very smooth.


Thanks man - sounds like something is wrong with mine. Incredibly irritating.


----------



## elisiX

godmax said:


> So you think the v281 is still worth picking up, even it has reached EOL and there might be a direct successor appear soon (not the v590 or v380)?
> Even I already have a GS-X mini, I consider buying the v281 FE as an additional setup.



I'd be interested to know if having GSX-Mini and V281 make sense. 

Are they not both powerful, slightly warm leaning? Why would you need both?

As for whether one should buy the V281 - YES.


----------



## elisiX

gimmeheadroom said:


> I would recommend the RME but I have not heard the Qutest.





Simple Man said:


> I’ve heard the RME but was not impressed, good, but not the “i need to heve this” factor.
> Chord is the brand I don’t want cause it’s ugly, but it keeps ‘chewing your mind’



I've run both the Hugo 2 and RME ADI-2 (4493) into my V281 and I prefer the RME with this amp. 

Instead I pair my Hugo 2 with my WA2 as the clarity, separation and detail works nicely with the WA2's tube. 

The RME/V281 are a great match as the RME hits hard and remains neutral, while the V281 brings the body and hint of warmth. 

Neither are bad pairings with the V281. This amp is really quite impressive. 

I am considering selling my RME and adding the TT2, but I would still pair that with my V281.


----------



## Lucky87 (Aug 21, 2020)

elisiX said:


> I've run both the Hugo 2 and RME ADI-2 (4493) into my V281 and I prefer the RME with this amp.
> 
> Instead I pair my Hugo 2 with my WA2 as the clarity, separation and detail works nicely with the WA2's tube.
> 
> ...



Yeah watch out because I made the mistake of taking my V281 along with my Utopia and Empyrean to my local high end store trying that combo with the TT2. I was very impressed with the overall sound and the sales guy says let's try it with the Chord Dave to the mix and I was blown away.  Chord Dave > V281 > Empyreans are outstanding gives you more impact compared to the Dave SE side. But with the Chord Dave > Utopia > and Euforia with 4 x KT88's quad is another great match. You can find great deals on the V281 selling very cheap and I was lucky enough to contact a vendor from here to buy the Silver Face plate for it to match my Silver Dave. Planning on swapping out the from Black to Silver with a slight upgrade to it as well pictures coming tomorrow.


----------



## thecrow

Lucky87 said:


> Yeah watch out because I made the mistake of taking my V281 along with my Utopia and Empyrean to my local high end store trying that combo with the TT2. I was very impressed with the overall sound and the sales guy says let's try it with the Chord Dave to the mix and I was blown away.  Chord Dave > V281 > Empyreans are outstanding gives you more impact compared to the Dave SE side. But with the Chord Dave > Utopia > and Euforia with 4 x KT88's quad is another great match. You can find great deals on the V281 selling very cheap and I was lucky enough to contact a vendor from here to buy the Silver Face plate for it to match my Silver Dave. Planning on swapping out the from Black to Silver with a slight upgrade to it as well pictures coming tomorrow.


Ahh yes....the ol’ “let's try it with the Chord Dave to the mix” trick


----------



## elisiX (Aug 21, 2020)

Lucky87 said:


> Yeah watch out because I made the mistake of taking my V281 along with my Utopia and Empyrean to my local high end store trying that combo with the TT2. I was very impressed with the overall sound and the sales guy says let's try it with the Chord Dave to the mix and I was blown away.  Chord Dave > V281 > Empyreans are outstanding gives you more impact compared to the Dave SE side. But with the Chord Dave > Utopia > and Euforia with 4 x KT88's quad is another great match. You can find great deals on the V281 selling very cheap and I was lucky enough to contact a vendor from here to buy the Silver Face plate for it to match my Silver Dave. Planning on swapping out the from Black to Silver with a slight upgrade to it as well pictures coming tomorrow.



I think you just sold me on the TT2..  damn you.

Funnily enough, my friend whom I bought this V281 FE from bought the TT2/MScaler and didn't feel the need to keep the V281.

He runs Utopia, D8000 Pro and Empyrean (which he sold).

Isn't the Utopia/Empyrean an amazing ying/yang combination? Almost makes me feel like I don't need anything else.

I'm also curious about your Empy/Euphoria pairing. I've heard great things!



thecrow said:


> Ahh yes....the ol’ “let's try it with the Chord Dave to the mix” trick



This made me spit my drink


----------



## jcoldrey

elisiX said:


> FE here and mine is fine. Very smooth.


Turns out it was just a loose knob. A tickle with a 1.5mm allen key and all is well. Back to listening. This amp is wildly dynamic. It's almost shocking how much.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

jcoldrey said:


> Turns out it was just a loose knob. A tickle with a 1.5mm allen key and all is well. Back to listening. This amp is wildly dynamic. It's almost shocking how much.



It takes a special sort of man to admit a loose knob. Welcome aboard, matey


----------



## jcoldrey

gimmeheadroom said:


> It takes a special sort of man to admit a loose knob. Welcome aboard, matey


There's no shame in hifi


----------



## elisiX

Actually I think in the manual (who ever reads those things..), they specifically mention the loose knob?


----------



## jcoldrey

elisiX said:


> Actually I think in the manual (who ever reads those things..), they specifically mention the loose knob?


Possibly - I found the answer on another forum. So I guess I'm not the only one with a screw loose


----------



## Fegefeuer

What headphones are you listening to with your V281?


----------



## elisiX

Utopia and Empyrean. 

I haven't tried with my Stellia yet (as I typically only use them for my office with Hugo 2).


----------



## Simple Man

elisiX said:


> I've run both the Hugo 2 and RME ADI-2 (4493) into my V281 and I prefer the RME with this amp.
> .......
> I am considering selling my RME and adding the TT2, but I would still pair that with my V281.



Thanks
But does this mean you’ll choose the TT2 over both the RME and Hugo2?


----------



## thecrow

thecrow said:


> Ahh yes....the ol’ “let's try it with the Chord Dave to the mix” trick


And then “let’s see if the mscaler has any effect when paired with the Dave”


----------



## elisiX

Simple Man said:


> Thanks
> But does this mean you’ll choose the TT2 over both the RME and Hugo2?



Rather than RME/V281, switch to TT2/V281.

Hugo 2 is my transportable for the office, though when at home, paired with WA2.

RME out
TT2 in

Everything else remains as it was.

This also doesn’t account for M Scaler.


----------



## jcoldrey

It's been so long since I bought a new amp (I know, I know) that I'd forgotten how much fun it is to rediscover my headphone collection through a new component. 

This is kind of full circle for me. I enjoyed a v200/v800 combo for many years (now in storage, as I moved to another country in the interim) and I've always missed the way it paired with my HD800 headphones. After a few years of a "this'll do" Audeze Deckard (what was I thinking?) I've gone back to Violectric. Man, what a homecoming. 

I've only had the v281 FE for a couple of days, but it has immediately impressed with its rocking dynamics, clarity and spaciousness. This does sound better to me than the v200 (although it's been a while), with greater grip and punch, albeit with less plush warmth, too.

I bought a couple of Audeze headphones (LCD-3 and LCD-X) back when I bought the Deckard and, listening to them both today through the v281, the real revelation is the LCD-X via a balanced cable. Talk about fun! The v281 exerts incredible control over these already-taut headphones and seems to bring out an extra dimension of finesse compared to the Deckard. The sound has less grain and more punch. The LCD-X had always slightly disappointed me but not any more. 

The LCD-3s also pair well, their weighty character meshing nicely with the v281's dynamism and detail. I'm hearing things on some tracks with this combo I've never heard before; the top end seems more vivacious, the bass far tauter compared to when they are driven by the Deckard. Seductive combo.

One interesting thing is that I'm having to adjust to the superb dynamic range of the v281 compared to the Deckard. It has taken me by surprise a number of times already. I find I listen at comparatively lower levels with the v281 because the transient peaks are so punchy, there's no need to dial up quite as high.

At the moment, I'm just listening via the built-in DAC unit, but I've got an RME ADI-2-DAC FS on order, so that should shake things up even more.


----------



## elisiX

I’ve tried my V281 FE with the in built DAC and RME (4493), and I prefer the RME.


----------



## jcoldrey

elisiX said:


> I’ve tried my V281 FE with the in built DAC and RME (4493), and I prefer the RME.


That's good to know. I'm looking forward to it arriving.


----------



## Pharmaboy

jcoldrey said:


> Turns out it was just a loose knob. A tickle with a 1.5mm allen key and all is well. Back to listening. This amp is wildly dynamic. It's almost shocking how much.



I love a happy ending!


----------



## Pharmaboy

jcoldrey said:


> superb dynamic range



what he said!


----------



## JazzVinyl

I love the incredible amount of details you get out of this amp.  Details that are barely hinted at, in lesser amps,

Long Live: Fully Balanced Amps...


----------



## thecrow

if listening to hps (particularly the susvaras in this case) with close to maximum pre gain on the amps, do the v280 and v281 give half the max power when using a single ended cable v balanced cable or is it not quite that simple? 
I ask that as i need more power than what i got with the v280 using a single ended cabe that was the only one cable at the demo


----------



## TheMiddleSky

elisiX said:


> I’ve tried my V281 FE with the in built DAC and RME (4493), and I prefer the RME.



rme is a huge improvement actually

the built in dac sound somewhat bright and uninvolving for me


----------



## elisiX

TheMiddleSky said:


> rme is a huge improvement actually
> 
> the built in dac sound somewhat bright and uninvolving for me



Yup, i'd agree. Bright and pulled some odd details in a few tracks I tried.


----------



## Fegefeuer

SE only uses 2 of 4 amps inside, it's not only a matter of power but of performance and sonic improvements


----------



## Simple Man

Just to make you all, some, jealous:
I’m enjoying an LP, you know vinyl, at the moment, so nice, detailed, stagewide, rhythm and pace correct etc.
like I’m on stage in this 1973 concert of Wishbone Ash.

No, the source doesNOT has to be digital to disappear into the music!!

just for your info.


----------



## fiiom11pro

just dropping by to say, V281 is an outstanding amp. V281 owner here. Ciao!


----------



## gonzfi

Had my final edition through and the one I've received doesn't have the black anodised surface. It has the standard gray finish. Slightly disappointed based on other ones I've seen.


----------



## elisiX

gonzfi said:


> Had my final edition through and the one I've received doesn't have the black anodised surface. It has the standard gray finish. Slightly disappointed based on other ones I've seen.



That's odd. I thought the FE only came with the black faceplate, though with a silver trim?


----------



## gonzfi

The faceplate is black with silver trim as expected but with some other units the main body of the amp is finished in black not the original gray. Mine is gray.


----------



## elisiX

gonzfi said:


> The faceplate is black with silver trim as expected but with some other units the main body of the amp is finished in black not the original gray. Mine is gray.



Right, sorry I misunderstood.

Yes, I was very pleased when I saw my FE had the black case as i'd been testing a friends non-FE which had the grey. 

Seems odd to be using different cases unless they're just getting down to the last units and had to use up stock?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Well the proof is in the listening. As it was the V280/281 are not the most beautiful amps ever built. They remind me of a box of dynamite in an office filing cabinet 

As soon as you plug in an expensive set of headphones using a balanced cable, and start turning the volume knob, all your dissatisfaction with the outward appearance will melt away.


----------



## elisiX

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well the proof is in the listening. As it was the V280/281 are not the most beautiful amps ever built. They remind me of a box of dynamite in an office filing cabinet
> 
> As soon as you plug in an expensive set of headphones using a balanced cable, and start turning the volume knob, all your dissatisfaction with the outward appearance will melt away.



Indeed.

I’ve been borrowing a friends Black Dragon cable for my Utopia this week, and paired with the RME/V281 ‘stack’, I couldn’t be happier. The V281 is just a brick but it has so much confidence in its delivery.


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well the proof is in the listening. As it was the V280/281 are not the most beautiful amps ever built. They remind me of a box of dynamite in an office filing cabinet
> 
> As soon as you plug in an expensive set of headphones using a balanced cable, and start turning the volume knob, all your dissatisfaction with the outward appearance will melt away.



Apparently beauty is only case-deep. 

My V281 has a grey case & I think it's gorgeous (mainly because the sound is gorgeous).

Note: in an actual box of dynamite in the office filing cabinet, there's no volume pot & no place to plug in headphones.


----------



## Shane D

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well the proof is in the listening. As it was the V280/281 are not the most beautiful amps ever built. They remind me of a box of dynamite in an office filing cabinet
> 
> As soon as you plug in an expensive set of headphones using a balanced cable, and start turning the volume knob, all your dissatisfaction with the outward appearance will melt away.



I have a V220 amp, but its looks have really grown on me and now it is my favourite amp for sound AND looks.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> Note: in an actual box of dynamite in the office filing cabinet, there's no volume pot & no place to plug in headphones.



That's before the dynamite goes off.

Afterwards there are more places to plug in headphones than you can swing a balanced cable at


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> That's before the dynamite goes off.
> 
> Afterwards there are more places to plug in headphones than you can swing a balanced cable at



Looking into the giant hole where the house used to be...

"That's the biggest headphone jack I ever saw"


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> Looking into the giant hole where the house used to be...
> 
> "That's the biggest headphone jack I ever saw"



Deep bass, but can be muddy without the right amp.


----------



## JazzVinyl

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well the proof is in the listening. As it was the V280/281 are not the most beautiful amps ever built. They remind me of a box of dynamite in an office filing cabinet





Heard a lot of people say:  Looks like a shoebox!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

JazzVinyl said:


> Heard a lot of people say:  Looks like a shoebox!



Tastes like chicken!


----------



## Pharmaboy

JazzVinyl said:


> Heard a lot of people say:  Looks like a shoebox!



No shoebox has the dynamics & bass of the V281.


----------



## fiiom11pro

You know how beautiful a Violectric amp is. 

Let us see your entire system with the *Violectric HPA V281*.


----------



## Pharmaboy

fiiom11pro said:


> You know how beautiful a Violectric amp is.
> 
> Let us see your entire system with the *Violectric HPA V281*.



To whom do you address this request?


----------



## ruinedx

Pharmaboy said:


> No shoebox has the dynamics & bass of the V281.


I dunno u put some nice woofers in a shoebox and a port bet u could get some decent bass out of it :]


----------



## fiiom11pro

Pharmaboy said:


> To whom do you address this request?




oh to everybody who owns it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

OK, 3 pix. The DAC shown in 2nd & 3rd (black Audio GD NOS 19 on top of small table) has been replaced by an MHDT Labs Orchid w/rolled NOS tube. Otherwise it's all the same as in these pix (BTW, all the other HPs are stored out of sight, so aren't in these pix):


----------



## fiiom11pro

Pharmaboy said:


> OK, 3 pix. The DAC shown in 2nd & 3rd (black Audio GD NOS 19 on top of small table) has been replaced by an MHDT Labs Orchid w/rolled NOS tube. Otherwise it's all the same as in these pix (BTW, all the other HPs are stored out of sight, so aren't in these pix):




dang, they're gorgeous..


----------



## Pharmaboy

Do you mean that V281? Actually, I love its looks, shape, all of it. 

The only criticism I can say about this amp is that the line on front of the volume knob (medium gray line against black volume pot) is basically invisible, impossible to see. I added a line cut from an address label & now it's perfect.


----------



## godmax

Here my little stack, after the V281 has arrived!




Currently I pair the V281 with the Audiophonics Evo-Sabre Balanced DAC


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nice, bring on the comparisons!


----------



## Ichos

That's not a little stack it's rather an uber stack!


----------



## elisiX

godmax said:


> Here my little stack, after the V281 has arrived!
> 
> 
> Currently I pair the V281 with the Audiophonics Evo-Sabre Balanced DAC



Very cool!

How would you describe the GSX-Mini vs. V281?

I have the V281 but have been wanting the Mini.

Headphone pairings for each amp would be amazing also.

Thanks.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

godmax said:


> Here my little stack, after the V281 has arrived!
> 
> 
> Currently I pair the V281 with the Audiophonics Evo-Sabre Balanced DAC



How do you like the Aeres II? I was thinking about getting one but went for the audio-gd R2R-11 instead.


----------



## fiiom11pro

godmax said:


> Here my little stack, after the V281 has arrived!
> 
> 
> Currently I pair the V281 with the Audiophonics Evo-Sabre Balanced DAC


a stack of hiend amps


----------



## fiiom11pro

godmax said:


> Here my little stack, after the V281 has arrived!
> 
> 
> Currently I pair the V281 with the Audiophonics Evo-Sabre Balanced DAC




may i know the name of the stack stand and where can we buy it? thanks


----------



## godmax

Fegefeuer said:


> Nice, bring on the comparisons!


Will take some more time to make a profund comparison  


elisiX said:


> How would you describe the GSX-Mini vs. V281?
> Headphone pairings for each amp would be amazing also.


From my current inital impression they tend to be in a similar category regarding build, soundstage, noise level, etc., but I need some more time and comparision with both to make an qualified statement. From my first impression paired with the Audiophonics Evo-Sabre Balanced DAC combined with the Quad ERA-1, I liked the V281 a little more than the GS-X mini with this specific combination.


gimmeheadroom said:


> How do you like the Aeres II?


Yes, I like the Ares II very much, especially for the expanded soundstage capability. For now I only paired the Ares II with the GS-X mini. But probalby will also try with the V281 soon. 
I also want to try Audio-gd products at some point in the future. Even I personally did not hear any of them yet, I guess these are also very good choice from what I read so far.


fiiom11pro said:


> may i know the name of the stack stand and where can we buy it?


This was created by myself using 4mm aluminum sheets and 3d printed parts for the lateral construction, since I did not find anything with a small foodprint.


----------



## fiiom11pro

This was created by myself using 4mm aluminum sheets and 3d printed parts for the lateral construction, since I did not find anything with a small foodprint.
[/QUOTE]

thanks.


----------



## godmax

After more then 2 month of use the V281 I can now clearly understand why many people here praise the engaging sound presentation of this amplifier! It magically adds some volumetric depth to the image that draws you in.

On certain headphones this quality is more apparent than others, especially with my Elegia and A2C I enjoy this very much.
I still like to listen to my GS-X mini, but the V281 definitely gets more play time currently.
As an DAC I use the Audiophonics Evo-Sabre Balanced DAC (ESS) and the Questyle CMA 400i(AKM) with the V281 depending on mood and music, but I might want to try an AKM 4499 based DAC soon.

With my Elegia using balanced connection I get some minor hum when the volume knob is before noon position, at max this is gone (but can't play music at that level!) , when I use them unbalanced the hum does not exist. Does not matter if a source is connected by RCA/XLR or not. Anyone else experienced this behaviour?


----------



## Pharmaboy

godmax said:


> After more then 2 month of use the V281 I can now clearly understand why many people here praise the engaging sound presentation of this amplifier! It magically adds some volumetric depth to the image that draws you in.
> 
> On certain headphones this quality is more apparent than others, especially with my Elegia and A2C I enjoy this very much.
> I still like to listen to my GS-X mini, but the V281 definitely gets more play time currently.
> ...



Glad to find another convert to the V281 school of sound.

Does your V281 have the standard analog pot--or the 128 step motorized pot? And is it near/on top of any other device?

Hum is famously a bitch to figure out. On my desktop system I have a longstanding, seemingly impossible to eradicate ground loop (I've tried many things to eradicate it, but it's always there). Certain components' operation is affected by the ground loop, but luckily my V281 is immune.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Since it's there in XLR and gone in SE, which is kinda unimaginable, I suspect the balanced cable is faulty, incipient short etc.


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> Since it's there in XLR and gone in SE, which is kinda unimaginable, I suspect the balanced cable is faulty, incipient short etc.



That's interesting. A bad cable (blinky soldering or grounding) might explain it.

Did you buy this new or used? I ask because the least likely thing is that there's a problem in the V281 itself (very unlikely, though).


----------



## sahmen

Quick question about using the "Pre gain" settings on the v281. To drive a power hungry can like the Susvara or the LCD-4, is it possibly better to set the Pre gain lower than unity, for example at -6 db? By the way, I am aware that the V281 can drive those two comfortably from the unity gain setting, I am just wondering whether the lower setting might help bring more refinement or enhancement to the table.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

sahmen said:


> Quick question about using the "Pre gain" settings on the v281. To drive a power hungry can like the Susvara or the LCD-4, is it possibly better to set the Pre gain lower than unity, for example at -6 db? By the way, I am aware that the V281 can drive those two comfortably from the unity gain setting, I am just wondering whether the lower setting might help bring more refinement or enhancement to the table.


Run it at 0 dB. Minus values are intended to give you more range on the volume knob with headphones that are too loud with no attenuation.


----------



## godmax

Pharmaboy said:


> Does your V281 have the standard analog pot--or the 128 step motorized pot? And is it near/on top of any other device?
> 
> Hum is famously a bitch to figure out. On my desktop system I have a longstanding, seemingly impossible to eradicate ground loop (I've tried many things to eradicate it, but it's always there). Certain components' operation is affected by the ground loop, but luckily my V281 is immune.


I got the standard analog pot version. I got device(s) above the V281 in my self-made rack.
I suspect in this case its not a ground loop issue, since this happens also, when no source device at all is physically connected and only with the Elegia on the V281, not with other headphones or amplifiers. Besides that I already use an Intona USB 3.0 isolator to seperate my sources from the noisy PC (without it I had a ground loop in the CMA400i headphone output).


gimmeheadroom said:


> Since it's there in XLR and gone in SE, which is kinda unimaginable, I suspect the balanced cable is faulty, incipient short etc.


I use Hart Audio Cables modular cables, so I can switch the inter-connector from SE to XLR without changing the headphone cable. But maybe its worth to try a completly different cable.


Pharmaboy said:


> That's interesting. A bad cable (blinky soldering or grounding) might explain it.
> 
> Did you buy this new or used? I ask because the least likely thing is that there's a problem in the V281 itself (very unlikely, though).


I did buy the V281 brand new, but had it already in for repair at Violectric, since the unit did switch on the protection mode randomly after some hours play time. But I guess they also checked everything before sending it back to me. Maybe the cable is faulty, even it works with all my other gear without flaws.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I would definitely try a normal non-gadgety cable.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> Quick question about using the "Pre gain" settings on the v281. To drive a power hungry can like the Susvara or the LCD-4, is it possibly better to set the Pre gain lower than unity, for example at -6 db? By the way, I am aware that the V281 can drive those two comfortably from the unity gain setting, I am just wondering whether the lower setting might help bring more refinement or enhancement to the table.



I use the pre-gain settings on the V281 (both for HPs/back of unit & for preamp out/inside case) to adjust overall system gain--reflecting the fact that my DAC has a rather "hot" fixed output of 3V. I do not adjust pre-gain of either output for different headphones or to get potentially better sound...it's not all that easy to do this on the V281, vs amps w/front switchable HP gain (admittedly w/way less granularity of gain choices than the V281's dipswitch array).

I have tried different gains settings on several other amps and never could hear any qualitative difference in the sound, once the volume levels were matched by ear. You can find any number of detailed, informative, occasionally argumentative posts in various threads here about gain vs sound quality--but I just can't hear any sonic differences that make me want to chase gain settings for each headphone.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

The V280/281 have such huge power it's hard to match them to all the headphones anybody might have. I figured out recently that I could run my Brooklyn DAC+ with -3 dB trim and that kinda helped since even at -12 dB the V280 is bordeline too much for some of my cans.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Nov 3, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> The V280/281 have such huge power it's hard to match them to all the headphones anybody might have. I figured out recently that I could run my Brooklyn DAC+ with -3 dB trim and that kinda helped since even at -12 dB the V280 is bordeline too much for some of my cans.



I love my DAC (MHDT Labs Orchid w/2 X RCA outputs & rolled buffer tube), but feel cursed that it has that fixed 3V output. So even w/my V281 set at -12 dB, the system is borderline high gain, especially the DAC output that drives the entire 2 channel amp + passive monitors + sub.

But the same -12 dB setting on the HP output works out pretty well. I can get my powerhog ZMF Ori up to ~10-10:30 tops on the dial; the high impedance HPs like ZMF Aeolus and JAR650 can go up to 11:30 or so, tops.

PS: Given that balanced DACs output something like double the voltage, I can't even imagine using a balanced DAC IMS. Even if I just used the balanced outputs for one leg (ie, HPs) and the SE output for another (say, the speakers/sub leg), whichever leg got the balanced output would be severely overdriven.


----------



## Giru (Nov 29, 2020)

------ edited-------


----------



## gimmeheadroom

It's odd, most people seem to be running their Violas at -12 dB. We better hope Fried doesn't read the posts and start shipping low power amps for girly-men


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> It's odd, most people seem to be running their Violas at -12 dB. We better hope Fried doesn't read the posts and start shipping low power amps for girly-men



I must be a girly man--one of my favorite amps is low power (M Stage Matrix HPA-1).

I suspect the reason that many run their V281s at reduced gain is due to 2 factors:

There seem to be more relatively efficient, high sensitivity headphones out there. You can readily see this (for example) in the high-end offerings from Audeze, Hifiman, Final, Meze, etc.
I also suspect that more DACs are departing from the nominal output voltage of 2V that used to be standard. It would be very hard to prove this, admittedly. But reading DAC specs, I come across higher-than-usual outputs fairly often.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I think you're right, the standard for lineout voltage seems to be changing. But I think some amps really sound better when driven harder. When I got my junior R2R DAC recently I noticed it didn't sound nearly as good through a headamp I was using before with a Chord Mojo running plugged in. And I realized it's because lineout mode on the Mojo is pretty hot. When I cranked up the R2R's output, the sound filled out, the bass came back, and it sounded like it wasn't 2nd to the Mojo anymore.

This and some other things I observed recently make me convinced driving amps hard is a good thing for sound quality. But there are some pieces of hifi gear that come from pro audio companies that probably push things more than expected and maybe one unintended consequence is that running headphones at the end of the chain can be challenging as far as range of volume control goes.


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think you're right, the standard for lineout voltage seems to be changing. But I think some amps really sound better when driven harder. When I got my junior R2R DAC recently I noticed it didn't sound nearly as good through a headamp I was using before with a Chord Mojo running plugged in. And I realized it's because lineout mode on the Mojo is pretty hot. When I cranked up the R2R's output, the sound filled out, the bass came back, and it sounded like it wasn't 2nd to the Mojo anymore.
> 
> This and some other things I observed recently make me convinced driving amps hard is a good thing for sound quality. But there are some pieces of hifi gear that come from pro audio companies that probably push things more than expected and maybe one unintended consequence is that running headphones at the end of the chain can be challenging as far as range of volume control goes.



Did that R2R have a volume pot? If not, how did you crank up its output?

Your R2R story has me wondering whether you proved that amps need to be driven harder; or whether one particular amps needs to be driven harder.

I'm also wondering whether this R2R might have the same results w/a different amp (ie, higher DAC output voltage = better sound).

This whole gain thing is complicated: 1st because sonic benefits from higher gain are so subjective; 2nd because more complicated systems contain >1 volume pot (making it harder to identity where the sonic benefits, if any, are really coming from).


----------



## AudioPowerHead

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think you're right, the standard for lineout voltage seems to be changing. But I think some amps really sound better when driven harder. When I got my junior R2R DAC recently I noticed it didn't sound nearly as good through a headamp I was using before with a Chord Mojo running plugged in. And I realized it's because lineout mode on the Mojo is pretty hot. When I cranked up the R2R's output, the sound filled out, the bass came back, and it sounded like it wasn't 2nd to the Mojo anymore.
> 
> This and some other things I observed recently make me convinced driving amps hard is a good thing for sound quality. But there are some pieces of hifi gear that come from pro audio companies that probably push things more than expected and maybe one unintended consequence is that running headphones at the end of the chain can be challenging as far as range of volume control goes.


What is your “junior R2R dac”? Just curious.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Nov 4, 2020)

Pharmaboy said:


> Did that R2R have a volume pot? If not, how did you crank up its output?
> 
> Your R2R story has me wondering whether you proved that amps need to be driven harder; or whether one particular amps needs to be driven harder.
> 
> ...


Yeah the Audio-gd seem to have standardized on offering line out mode (which was kinda anemic) and variable out mode. I did try it with several amps to compare to the way the Mojo sounded.

The setup was Chord Mojo or R2R-11 into a headamp and into a mini stereo stack. In both cases the Chord sounded much better. It took me a while to figure out what was going on.



AudioPowerHead said:


> What is your “junior R2R dac”? Just curious.


Audio-gd R2R-11. There are a couple of threads here about it. It's a wonderful little unit and the transaction was much better than expected. Really, Audio-gd exceeded my expectations end to end. Super little dacamp, even not considering the price.


----------



## Sound Eq

who represents vioelectric here on head fi, as I want to send them a message


----------



## gimmeheadroom

As far as I know, nobody. You can find contact info on the websites.


----------



## Fegefeuer

info@lake-people.de


----------



## Pharmaboy

Sound Eq said:


> who represents vioelectric here on head fi, as I want to send them a message



The U.S. rep for Violectric & Lake People is a very nice & knowledgeable fellow, Arthur from Power Holdings. There's a "Contact" pop-up (= email) on the website:
https://power-holdings-inc.com/Violectric-HPA-V280-Headphone-Amplifier-p136295539#zbwid-2e5d3573


----------



## vkenz

Anyone here uses the Plixirpower Elite BAC 400 with the V281?


----------



## jamesng45678

vkenz said:


> Anyone here uses the Plixirpower Elite BAC 400 with the V281?


I do! Omg it is perfect haha


----------



## sahmen

Has anyone swapped the caps in the V281 just to hear the results, or know someone who has?  If so, could you share your impressions?


----------



## Justin_Time

No information about this. Sorry.


----------



## Slim1970

I just took deliver of my first Violectric product. I’m a little late to the party, but I guess it’s better late than never. What a great sounding amp the V281 is!


----------



## Fegefeuer

What did you pair it with so far and what do you particularly or generally like about it?


----------



## sahmen (Dec 23, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> What did you pair it with so far and what do you particularly or generally like about it?


Looks like he has got a Hugo 2 or TT2 on it, but I am just judging from the picture.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Oh, true, I just meant headphone wise.


----------



## sahmen

Fegefeuer said:


> Oh, true, I just meant headphone wise.



Ooops! Okay sorry about that.


----------



## Slim1970

Fegefeuer said:


> What did you pair it with so far and what do you particularly or generally like about it?


Right now, I have my Kennerton Wodan’s hooked to it. The dynamics, resolution, imaging are very, very good with this combo. The Wodan’s sound so spacious out of the V281. Bass, midrange and treble sound spot on as I’m hearing no flaws in the frequency spectrum. Geese, the V281 is fast.

 I’m going to try other headphones later, namely my Susvara’s and TC’s, to see how the V281 handles them. Right now, the Wodan’s are sounding superb!


----------



## Slim1970

Just tried my Abyss TC's on the V281. Originally, I had the gain set at -6 dB. That proved not to be enough to properly power them to a suitable volume levels. I moved to +6 dB and now we're talking. Incredible, crazy dynamics and slam. The soundstage was way outside my head. The resolution and air the TC's had being driven by the V281 seemed infinite. Great extension on both ends of the frequency spectrum while providing a very full sounding midrange. The V281 is giving the TC's drivers a serious workout. Next up the Susvara's.....


----------



## Pharmaboy

And I've been getting great sound out of my new silkwood Verite Open on the V281. It's not just my #1 headphone amp, but also a very flexible system preamp. My system has gain issues, so the pre-amp gain switches inside the case save the day (currently set to -12 dB, same as the headphone output's gain).

The V281 has just about the best SS sound I've heard: dynamics, bass impact/depth, and soundstage are exemplary IMO.


----------



## Slim1970

Pharmaboy said:


> And I've been getting great sound out of my new silkwood Verite Open on the V281. It's not just my #1 headphone amp, but also a very flexible system preamp. My system has gain issues, so the pre-amp gain switches inside the case save the day (currently set to -12 dB, same as the headphone output's gain).
> 
> The V281 has just about the best SS sound I've heard: dynamics, bass impact/depth, and soundstage are exemplary IMO.


+1, I'm haven't experienced such depth from a solid state amp since I've been in this hobby. The sound space of the V281 rivals that of a good tube amp. It's extremely wide and deep with outstanding sonics to go along with it.


----------



## vkenz

Slim1970 said:


> +1, I'm haven't experienced such depth from a solid state amp since I've been in this hobby. The sound space of the V281 rivals that of a good tube amp. It's extremely wide and deep with outstanding sonics to go along with it.



True, and it even gets more tubish sounding when used with those 300V halogen power cables.  And more neutral silver plated power cables.  This is the most sensitive amp I tried for changes in your power cables.


----------



## Slim1970

vkenz said:


> True, and it even gets more tubish sounding when used with those 300V halogen power cables.  And more neutral silver plated power cables.  This is the most sensitive amp I tried for changes in your power cables.


I have a VH Audio Flavor 4 power cord heading my way. I'll see what kind on changes it brings to the V281.


----------



## vkenz

Slim1970 said:


> I have a VH Audio Flavor 4 power cord heading my way. I'll see what kind on changes it brings to the V281.


This AMP also just brings out the best mids emotions in my Chord Qutest.  It pairs so well with a qutest you will probably damaged you ears for listening so much.


----------



## Slim1970

vkenz said:


> This AMP also just brings out the best mids emotions in my Chord Qutest.  It pairs so well with a qutest you will probably damaged you ears for listening so much.


I have a Chord TT2/HMS combo hooked up to mine at the moment. Before that I was using my Hugo 2, which has the same DAC as your Qutest. But you're right, not only are the mids good on the V281, but the entire frequency range from top to bottom is outstanding.


----------



## Fegefeuer

vkenz said:


> True, and it even gets more tubish sounding when used with those 300V halogen power cables.  And more neutral silver plated power cables.  This is the most sensitive amp I tried for changes in your power cables.



Yep. Now Niimbus is even more reactive and thus harder to match or let's say there are more steps to go before you are settled.


----------



## PrTv

Have been using this amp for nearly 3 years and still pleased with the sound/performance. I bought it almost 3 years ago to use with LCD-X and HD650 with great result (now I still have those 2 headphones but not use them much anymore).

My current setup with this amp is Utopia and Empyrean, with QB9 Twenty Dac (thanks Ayre for providing this upgrade solution to re-vitalize this almost 10 years old DAC).








elisiX said:


> Well i've just setup the V281 FE and I'm just blown away by this device. The aesthetics alone have me excited, but the sound with the Empyrean is just amazing.
> 
> Something I didn't realise about the Final Edition is that the body casing is done in black - like an anodised black aluminium. The regular V281 has a dark grey rough surface which when borrowing a friends unit recently, I wasn't that keen on. This black finish on the FE matches the RME ADI-2 perfectly and they look amazing together (I've paired my RME with V281 and Hugo 2 with WA2).
> 
> ...



Since you also have Utopia and Empy, and you seemed to be happy with this amp with the Empy, do you feel that the low end is a bit lacking? 

I now use Empy with Meze's Silver Plated cable through XLR output of the amp, and feel that low end lacks impact and slam. It's almost night and day comparing with Utopia with Lazuli Ref. 

I tried Silver Dragon XLR with the Empy and the low end was improved slightly but not to my satisfaction. Dont know if this is just due to the Empy sound signature or there is something I can do to improve this area. What's your finding mate?


----------



## elisiX

Hey mate - I’m JS who you’ve been chatting with today on your FB post.

I’m not sure what’s lacking in the bottom end for you? Can you describe this more? Empy isn’t as dynamic as Utopia, low end or otherwise, but it’s bass is fuller and warmer. Are you hoping for more of a dynamic sound with your Empy?

I’ve been trying my HD800S with a friends Black Dragon cable and it’s amazing how ‘in the middle of Empy and Utopia’ it now sounds.


----------



## PrTv (Jan 5, 2021)

elisiX said:


> Hey mate - I’m JS who you’ve been chatting with today on your FB post.
> 
> I’m not sure what’s lacking in the bottom end for you? Can you describe this more? Empy isn’t as dynamic as Utopia, low end or otherwise, but it’s bass is fuller and warmer. Are you hoping for more of a dynamic sound with your Empy?
> 
> I’ve been trying my HD800S with a friends Black Dragon cable and it’s amazing how ‘in the middle of Empy and Utopia’ it now sounds.



Hi JS... I've just been aware that you also have the same amp from your post in this thread.

What I mean by lacking is not in terms of quantity but more in terms of impact and punch. Maybe I was spoiled by Utopia's (and even LCD-X) mid-bass, and I cant help but wishing Empy's bass has tad more slam. Like I said in my FB post, I will give this cable more time, but I highly doubt I will see improvement the direction I wish for.

For the Black Dragon, if you like the sound, you should also try Cardas Clear. IMO it's better than the BD. But if you decide to go with the BD, I dont think you can go wrong. Moon-Audio cables are of great quality. I have my Silver Dragon for more than 3 years and now the cable still looks pristine. Comparing with Lazuli Ref that uses mesh sheathing material, which I can notice minor deformity in some areas with only 1 month of use (it still sounds great though).


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

PrTv said:


> Hi JS... I've just been aware that you also have the same amp from your post in this thread.
> 
> What I mean by lacking is not in terms of quantity but more in terms of impact and punch. Maybe I was spoiled by Utopia's (and even LCD-X) mid-bass, and I cant help but wishing Empy's bass has tad more slam. Like I said in my FB post, I will give this cable more time, but I highly doubt I will see improvement the direction I wish for.
> 
> For the Black Dragon, if you like the sound, you should also try Cardas Clear. IMO it's better than the BD. But if you decide to go with the BD, I dont think you can go wrong. Moon-Audio cables are of great quality. I have my Silver Dragon for more than 3 years and now the cable still looks pristine. Comparing with Lazuli Ref that uses mesh sheathing material, which I can notice minor deformity in some areas with only 1 month of use (it still sounds great though).


If you’re looking for bass slam ditch the Empyreans and get an LCD-4. It’s a fantastic pairing w/V281 and they’re selling for less on the used market than the Meze cans. LCD-4 is also a good complementary headphone to the Utopias


----------



## elisiX (Jan 6, 2021)

I have my V281 matched with the RME, and for the Empyrean I just don't find it lacking in bass impact.

Again it's not as dynamic as the Utopia on this same DAC/AMP pairing, but I don't feel it's an issue.

Interesting that you are finding this with the use of a silver cable whereas I am only using the standard XLR.

I do play around with the EQ on my RME which allows for quick B/T adjustments.


----------



## PrTv (Jan 6, 2021)

Malcolm Riverside said:


> If you’re looking for bass slam ditch the Empyreans and get an LCD-4. It’s a fantastic pairing w/V281 and they’re selling for less on the used market than the Meze cans. LCD-4 is also a good complementary headphone to the Utopias



Thanks for the suggestion. I actually gave the LCD4 a listen some time ago (back to back with LCD-X). Whilst the LCD4 sounded better and more refined in all areas, I didnt find it vastly different (dare I say superior?) to the LCD-X. Since I already own the LCD-X I did not buy the LCD4 at that time.

In any case, with this economy, I may not buy additional headphones until I can sell some of my current ones (LCD-X and/or HD650... or maybe the Empy too!).



elisiX said:


> I have my V281 matched with the RME, and for the Empyrean I just don't find it lacking in bass impact.
> 
> Again it's not as dynamic as the Utopia on this same DAC/AMP pairing, but I don't feel it's an issue.
> 
> ...



If I didn't have the Utopia, I might not "feel" that the Empy is lacking. You might be right about the Empy's bass (that it might not be as bad as I said). Maybe it's just me and my preference. Will give it some more time to consider whether I will keep this. If I am to sell it, it would be at substantial discount, else it might take forever to sell.

Anyway, I will stop this annoying babbling! I have learnt from this discussion that the amp and headphones seem to have good synergy, and cable should not be a problem... must be my preference then haha.


----------



## Lucky87 (Jan 6, 2021)

PrTv said:


> Have been using this amp for nearly 3 years and still pleased with the sound/performance. I bought it almost 3 years ago to use with LCD-X and HD650 with great result (now I still have those 2 headphones but not use them much anymore).
> 
> My current setup with this amp is Utopia and Empyrean, with QB9 Twenty Dac (thanks Ayre for providing this upgrade solution to re-vitalize this almost 10 years old DAC).
> 
> ...



I think you are not getting the BASS you want do to the Alcantara pads you need the Leather pads to get more impact. I am running my Empyreans with Norne Audio 8-Wire SILVER LITZ Custom and it really helps the Empyreans open up and get tighter and faster bass slam.  I am going Chord Dave > V281 > Empyreans and this is number #2 go too vs the Chord Dave > Euforia > Utopia's

I have tried to listen to the LCD4 at the store with the TT2 and Chord Dave but for some reason it sounded very bad like turning the volume the highest and only hearing 40% of the music something was holding the LCD4 back.   But I think there are just some people that want 90% bass then the rest the is headphone. But for me I want detailed fast and tight bass nothing bloated or over the top. My Sony Z1R does a awesome job with the BASS but is very source defendant.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Lucky87 said:


> I think you are not getting the BASS you want do to the Alcantara pads you need the Leather pads to get more impact. I am running my Empyreans with Norne Audio 8-Wire SILVER LITZ Custom and it really helps the Empyreans open up and get tighter and faster bass slam.  I am going Chord Dave > V281 > Empyreans and this is number #2 go too vs the Chord Dave > Euforia > Utopia's
> 
> I have tried to listen to the LCD4 at the store with the TT2 and Chord Dave but for some reason it sounded very bad like turning the volume the highest and only hearing 40% of the music something was holding the LCD4 back.   But I think there are just some people that want 90% bass then the rest the is headphone. But for me I want detailed fast and tight bass nothing bloated or over the top. My Sony Z1R does a awesome job with the BASS but is very source defendant.



Good point about Empy pads. When I owned one, I loved the feel of the alcantara pad but much preferred the sound of the leathers. Better bass, for one thing, though the Empyrean isn't (nor was it designed to be) a basshead design. 

After I got my ZMF Ori 4+ years ago, my 1st planar, I just assumed all planars had bass as good as that (the Ori has exceptional bass in every way). But in the years since, with various planars I've owned (empyrean; pre-fazor LCD-2.1; pre-fazor LCD-3; HEX v2), I found that some really bring the bass, while others are about other sonic things. In other words, the usual headphone heterogeneity prevails.

One thing is for sure: the V281 will help ANY headphone achieve its greatest & most satisfying bass output, quantitatively and qualitatively. The V281 just slams like crazy when given the opportunity...


----------



## elisiX

I didn’t even think about the pads. Recently I’ve been using the Alcantara but I normally use leather as I find it keeps everything more controlled. I can add bass with the RME but the leather pads ensures a clean slate to work from. Alcantara is I smoother sounding.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

@PrTv have you EQ'ed at all? I miss the RME ADI-2 for how easy it was to bump up the lower frequencies but you can do it in software too such as Roon


----------



## PrTv

Relaxasaurus said:


> @PrTv have you EQ'ed at all? I miss the RME ADI-2 for how easy it was to bump up the lower frequencies but you can do it in software too such as Roon



Sorry I missed your post. No... I did not EQ at all. In the past I had that "misconception" that EQing the sound is like tainting the pureness of the sound from the source, which is a No No. Now we all know that what I believed is not true!

Anyway, short answer is no. Now it's even more complicated since I moved to a dedicated streamer like an Aurender, which, to my understanding, does not support EQ.


----------



## Sound Eq

I think I will post this here as still the 590 thread is not as active as this thread

So where I live we have the socket in the pic and the 590 power cable  came with the plug in the pic

Would Violetcirc benefit from a different power cord, as the sockets where I live are different than other countries

If it matters does anyone know where to buy a proper power cord


----------



## Delta9K (Jan 28, 2021)

After a while of wanting to step up my amplifier game a bit and doing research with regard to my existing source gear and headphones and considering what I might want to do later I have sought out and found a v281 and it is shipping to me now.
I will be going though this thread to learn more but I suspect that I will have some questions for the group in the weeks to come.

The v281 I purchased has a USB DAC module and the volume control is smooth - not the stepped version.

My current primary DAC is a Bifrost 2 - I understand that the warmer leaning coloring of the v281 and the softness of the Bf2 may not be the best synergy but, that is what I will be using while I narrow down a more optimal DAC to pair with the v281.
I am leaning towards a Soekris dacXXXX.

Headphones I currently own are Hex V2, LCD-2pf (2.2), Elegia, Lawton modded d5000 and a stock th610 that I have a Lawton mod in the works.
Other amps I own include A3, Liquid Platinum, and a Jotunheim 2.

I would like to build up a source that will allow me eventually to justify the purchase of a Hek v2. Or, at least that is my current end-game goal.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I loved the A2 version of the Gungnir or the one you would get if you bought it sometime starting at the end of 2017 (iirc) until  today. That was my favorite pairing despite me liking the Bifrost 2 a lot as well. Remember that the Bifrost 2 is slightly warmer, softer over UNISON. I recommend getting a good transport like the PI2AES and go towards the SPDIF and see how that matches up for you (and in general for any other future DAC as it's such an outstanding transport). 

Gungnir A2 has a cooler tonality overall with lots of macro/microdynamics, popping transients and as expected: Moffat's superb bass slam and character.


----------



## Slim1970

Delta9K said:


> After a while of wanting to step up my amplifier game a bit and doing research with regard to my existing source gear and headphones and considering what I might want to do later I have sought out and found a v281 and it is shipping to me now.
> I will be going though this thread to learn more but I suspect that I will have some questions for the group in the weeks to come.
> 
> The v281 I purchased has a USB DAC module and the volume control is smooth - not the stepped version.
> ...


The V281 is an awesome amp. I love it's slightly warm, detailed, and spacious sound. It has outstanding power and I think you're going to be very happy with its sound. My has the USB DAC module as well. I did try it out and it will serve in a pinch, but my Hugo 2 run circles around it. So experiment with the DAC options you have. I feel the V281 is transparent enough to let you hear their differences.


----------



## elisiX

V281 works brilliantly off both my Hugo 2 or RME as DAC’s. I too have the DAC included with my V281 (I have the FE), but it doesn’t come close to the RME/H2 for me.


----------



## godmax

Yes, the integrated DAC in the V281 works and produces sound, but almost every decent external DAC will outperform it. I pair the RME and Burson Composer with the V281 and I am very happy with both combinations.


----------



## fiiom11pro

what dac chip is included in the integrated dac?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Delta9K said:


> After a while of wanting to step up my amplifier game a bit and doing research with regard to my existing source gear and headphones and considering what I might want to do later I have sought out and found a v281 and it is shipping to me now.
> I will be going though this thread to learn more but I suspect that I will have some questions for the group in the weeks to come.
> 
> The v281 I purchased has a USB DAC module and the volume control is smooth - not the stepped version.
> ...



I hope you love your new/used V281. I certainly love mine.

Characterizing the V281 as warm is sorta true (it sounds slightly warm to me). But what you tend to focus on when using it w/a reasonably transparent headphone (or speakers) instead is:

Dynamics, which can get ridiculous (jump-out-of-chair dynamics)
Bass power & depth
Power (it goes and goes)
Resolution - It's not a detail monster or forensic neutrality cannon...but it's quite resolving, plenty for me
And soundstaging, really fine for a SS design
The real magic of the V281 is that it's the whole package, and brings pretty much the same mojo to every headphone (and pair of speakers--I've tried a few and all do well w/V281 as preamp).


----------



## Malcolm Riverside (Jan 28, 2021)

Delta9K said:


> After a while of wanting to step up my amplifier game a bit and doing research with regard to my existing source gear and headphones and considering what I might want to do later I have sought out and found a v281 and it is shipping to me now.
> I will be going though this thread to learn more but I suspect that I will have some questions for the group in the weeks to come.
> 
> The v281 I purchased has a USB DAC module and the volume control is smooth - not the stepped version.
> ...


Stick with the Bifrost 2 for a while and see how you like it! Soekris may offer a leaner/cooler sound but that doesn’t mean it’ll be an upgrade over the Bifrost. Also you’re paying for the amplifier section in their pricier dacs which you don’t need with the V281. Nice thing about the Bifrost is it punches above its weight and there’s no waste in terms of design or resources. It’s just a great balanced dac for a good price. Save your money, sell some of that extra gear you got and get the HEKSE and/or a Stellia to replace the Elegia and D5000 is my advice. Once you get a couple of top of the line pieces of gear the lesser stuff starts to gather dust anyway, in my experience.


----------



## vkenz (Jan 28, 2021)

having both the v281 and the v590, I still love the v281 sound.  the holographic sound of the v590 for now make me feel dizzy. it coould be the v590 dac. they are both apex amps.


----------



## Slim1970

vkenz said:


> having both the v281 and the v590, I still love the v281 sound.  the holographic sound of the v590 for now make me feel dizzy. it coould be the v590 dac. they are both apex amps.


Interesting, I had a feeling that was the direction Violectric was headed with their new sound. Based on what you’re hearing, would you say the V590 is an upgraded sound or that there is a place for both amps in a collection?


----------



## vkenz

Slim1970 said:


> Interesting, I had a feeling that was the direction Violectric was headed with their new sound. Based on what you’re hearing, would you say the V590 is an upgraded sound or that there is a place for both amps in a collection?



For me, definitely both are for keeps.  My V590 experience was like using the Oculus Rift VR for the first time.  It can feel  nauseating at first, specially with headphones that are already very holographic like the Rad 0. I guess my brain is just not used to it that is why.


----------



## Delta9K

The vio v281 has landed .

Are there any best practice advices for first time setup and operations? The unit I purchased came from a seller in the US so the internal settings for mains voltage are correct.
Should I remove the cover and verify that the ground settings are correct? If so what should they be set to, the manual is confusing me. Should it be Ground or Lift position? 
Also, the Pre-Gain switches on the back of the unit came with both -12 & -6 set to the ON position on both Left and Right. I set all the dip switches to OFF. For my phones this seems to be OK. I have a fair amount of control range - though I do not ever get much past 9:30 - 10:00 before it gets to be bordering uncomfortable loud. Should I leave them all set to off, or should I experiment a bit with for example setting to -6 or -12 ?

I have not been here long enough to create a signature depicting my source/chain and phones in use so for this conversation:
Bifrost 2 > v281; Phones HEX V2, LCD-2pf, Elegia, AH-D5000 (Latwon modded), TH-610 (stock)

Thanks to all of you, who have been so welcoming of a new-comer to the forum and offered feed-back already.


----------



## godmax (Jan 30, 2021)

Delta9K said:


> Should I leave them all set to off, or should I experiment a bit with for example setting to -6 or -12 ?


Ex works it should have been set to 0dB(all switches off). If you use your headphones balanced with the V281, than you might want to reduce the gain (-6/-12dB). Especially with your Elegia and Foster variants. I did have some noise picked up on these efficient headphones, so I set the gain to -6dB and everything was fine.


----------



## Fegefeuer

-12 and -6 is -14db pre-gain

Don't worry too much.

1) Make sure you use balanced cables or connections for your headphones to make use of all 4 amps inside the V281. This is important to get the most out of it.
2) Start with 0db or default pregain and just listen for a good while, assess the amp and then find a pregain which gives you a broader control range. e.g. -6db
3) LIFT is default.

One day once you're done with 1) and 2) and know how this amp performs you can worry about the GND/Lift part and do the comparisons.

Don't mix too much, take it slow and appreciate what the amp gives to you (or not).


----------



## Delta9K

Fegefeuer said:


> -12 and -6 is -14db pre-gain
> 
> Don't worry too much.
> 
> ...


Thanks!

I failed to mention that yes, I am running bal/xlr out from Bifrost 2 into the bal/xlr input on the v281, and that all phones are using the bal/xlr hp out.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Delta9K said:


> The vio v281 has landed .
> 
> Are there any best practice advices for first time setup and operations? The unit I purchased came from a seller in the US so the internal settings for mains voltage are correct.
> Should I remove the cover and verify that the ground settings are correct? If so what should they be set to, the manual is confusing me. Should it be Ground or Lift position?
> ...



I use my V281 both as my main headphone amp & system preamp. The dipswitches on the back panel adjust gain of the headphone output only; and the dipswitches inside adjust the preamp output only.

How you adjust each (or just the headphone gain, if you only use for HP amp'ing) is a personal choice. I used -12dB on both HP out & preamp out, because this gives me more volume plot play from 9AM to max 12 on the dial. Lower gain settings push both outputs uncomfortably high, so I can barely get the pot above ~10AM at the loudest.

I also use primarily balanced headphone cables (which has a 6 dB higher signal). I use the single-ended output for preamping.

BTW, I own the HEX v2 also...you will appreciate how the V281 lets this rather relaxed planar pound a bit. I also had a pre-fazor LCD-2.1 for a year or so, and it also sounded quite nice on the V281. Actually, all my headphones sound terrific on this amp, one of the reasons I like it so much.


----------



## PrTv

Hi

I have a question about OPAMP rolling. I read in this thread before about replacing the stock OPAMP of V281 (Pharmaboy's post), and I just wanna check:
1. In addition to Pharmaboy, has anyone tried this and how do you like the sound?
2. If I want to try, I understand I have to remove the analog output of the amp (upper deck) to get access to the OPAMP. If so, it is difficult? I don't have high electronic skill but can do basic stuff like building a computer from parts, basic use of multi-meter, etc.
3. I also read that the amp got hot with the replacement OPAMP. Is this true? Is there any OPAMP that does not generate excessive heat (comparing with the stock one).
4. Which are compatible OPAMPs for this? Which are the best? Is discrete better and if so, can it fit?
5. Are there anything to concern about long-term use e.g. current draw, heat, etc?

Sorry for these extensive questions. I read this thread for a while but couldn't find exact answers to the above.

Thanks


----------



## Pharmaboy

PrTv said:


> Hi
> 
> I have a question about OPAMP rolling. I read in this thread before about replacing the stock OPAMP of V281 (Pharmaboy's post), and I just wanna check:
> 1. In addition to Pharmaboy, has anyone tried this and how do you like the sound?
> ...



What I discovered the hard way w/the V281, was that the most accessible board, the one on top in back/left of the amp (viewed from above) is the output board. Changing opamp in the output board doesn't affect headphone sound--only the preamp output. Swapping the stock opamp to a Sparkos SS6502 produced a small but meaningful change in the sound via amp+speakers (ATC SCM12 passive monitors, which are very revealing). Space is wide open above the output board, so I could have easily used a larger/taller opamp there (like any of the Burson opamps--though heat may/may not be an issue w/them).

However, to go one step further and replace the opamp in the input board (directly below the output board--and affecting the headphone output) was too much disassembly for me. I just didn't have the stomach for it. I could see that even w/disassembly of the upper/output board, space between the 2 boards is tight. The Sparkos would fit, but none of the Burson opamps I've ever seen would fit.

Regarding heat, I measured the heat inside the case/near the opamp on output board, both before & after replacing the opamp (minimum 15" of measuring time well after the amp had already been on for hours). I saw something like 1/2 a degree F higher w/the Sparkos opamp after several hours' time, which is benign, no trouble. And I've had zero operational issues w/the V281 since bailing on the opamp of the input board & putting the case back together. That was all many months ago & the case now seems no hotter than it was before all this.

But my temperature observations apply only to rolling the opamp in the output board to a Sparkos SS3602. I have no idea if replacing the opamp on the input board w/another Sparkos SS3602 would case a heat issue (possible, but not likely)--and no idea at all how any other opamp would react this installation thermally.

Re other opamps, I knew a couple names of possible candidate at one time, but have forgotten all that. It's buried in the thread somewhere and I don't feel like doing a deep dive to find it...(sorry).


----------



## PrTv

Pharmaboy said:


> What I discovered the hard way w/the V281, was that the most accessible board, the one on top in back/left of the amp (viewed from above) is the output board. Changing opamp in the output board doesn't affect headphone sound--only the preamp output. Swapping the stock opamp to a Sparkos SS6502 produced a small but meaningful change in the sound via amp+speakers (ATC SCM12 passive monitors, which are very revealing). Space is wide open above the output board, so I could have easily used a larger/taller opamp there (like any of the Burson opamps--though heat may/may not be an issue w/them).
> 
> However, to go one step further and replace the opamp in the input board (directly below the output board--and affecting the headphone output) was too much disassembly for me. I just didn't have the stomach for it. I could see that even w/disassembly of the upper/output board, space between the 2 boards is tight. The Sparkos would fit, but none of the Burson opamps I've ever seen would fit.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for your swift and detailed reply. So if I can manage to disassemble the top board, I can get access to the Headphone OpAmp section. I will do more research on compatible OpAmp both spec-wise and physical-wise (as the space is so tight). 

In my understanding, if I have no plan to use the pre-out, I can just remove the top deck from the amp?


----------



## Pharmaboy

PrTv said:


> Thanks very much for your swift and detailed reply. So if I can manage to disassemble the top board, I can get access to the Headphone OpAmp section. I will do more research on compatible OpAmp both spec-wise and physical-wise (as the space is so tight).
> 
> In my understanding, if I have no plan to use the pre-out, I can just remove the top deck from the amp?



That question is better directed at the designer, Fried (sometimes he peeks in here). I don't know the answer.

The only opamp I tried was the Sparkos SS3602, and it worked. I had good reasons for trying this opamp: it has a reputation as a "musical" and slightly warm opamp. A class D amp I'm following offers it as an opamp choice on their input board, and a number of users weighed in on their satisfaction with/preference for its sound vs the other option, a Sonic Imagery opamp.

And this is important, too: the SS3602 should fit on the input board, as it does on the output board. Among the opamps I looked at were several Bursons, which I ended up not proceeding with based on size (even the smallest is quite a bit larger than the Sparkos); also on various user comments about their detail & neutrality (I've learned the hard way that to my ears, "detail" and "neutrality" often translate to "bright").


----------



## mammal

Hello fellow V281 owners. Just got myself this amp, based on head-fiers recommendation. Pairing it with my Chord Hugo 2 and Abyss Diana V2. I wanted to order this amp for a while but did not know where from so I contacted local dealers, they had them at different prices. Neither knew details about the amp, as it would be shipped directly from Germany. Two different prices as well, but I convinced the dealer to match the price of the other one (wanted it from them as they could ship faster). And today, to my surprise I received the Final Edition. Reading here, apparently it was limited run? Did they give it to me at the price of the base, yet Final Edition includes a DAC? All of this with 3 years of warranty? I feel incredibly happy right now. The bass control is out of this world.


----------



## Delta9K

mammal said:


> Hello fellow V281 owners. Just got myself this amp, based on head-fiers recommendation. Pairing it with my Chord Hugo 2 and Abyss Diana V2. I wanted to order this amp for a while but did not know where from so I contacted local dealers, they had them at different prices. Neither knew details about the amp, as it would be shipped directly from Germany. Two different prices as well, but I convinced the dealer to match the price of the other one (wanted it from them as they could ship faster). And today, to my surprise I received the Final Edition. Reading here, apparently it was limited run? Did they give it to me at the price of the base, yet Final Edition includes a DAC? All of this with 3 years of warranty? I feel incredibly happy right now. The bass control is out of this world.


Wow, your diligence really paid off to allow you to score a new V281 and with warranty!  Mine came by way of the pre-owner market and is awesome but, I like things new whenever possible...
Very happy for you. The amp is a game changer for sure, a wonderful piece of kit. I have mine matched with a Soekris dac1541, its a great pairing.


----------



## Pharmaboy

mammal said:


> I feel incredibly happy right now. The bass control is out of this world.



This is the "V281 state of mind" in a nutshell. 

The following is an example of how thoroughly the V281 influences me in this headphone hobby:

I recently rec'd & burned in a new (hopefully, endgame for me) planar headphone, the Kennerton Odin Thridi
The amp I used for burn-in is the Audio GD SA-31SE w/>2X the power of the V281 (10 wpc @40 ohms, which is NUTS)
People asked what I thought of the Odin's sound. I tell them that this insanely powerful Audio GD amp is rather polite in the bass & overall dynamics--so I think they sound good...I think it has that juicy planar bass
...but until I get the Odin connect to the V281, I won't have a clue how it _really_ sounds
(truth)


----------



## vkenz

the V281 should be in the headphone amps hall of fame as TBE.


----------



## mammal

I haven't been in this hobby as long as many of you, so haven't experienced the "what if / hmm this other gear" syndrom yet. But have auditioned my fair share of (overhyped / legendary / romantic-ed) gear and the first amplifier ever I am not feeling I want to replace or even compare is V281. What a pity they have stopped making this one, as I read their new amp (more powerful and everything) isn't the same tonality and sound signature.


----------



## mammal (Mar 16, 2021)

Can someone try something on their V281 for me? Listen to a song that has center imaging and turn the balance knob completely to the left, then completely to the right. How is the volume/spacial presentation? Does it stay the same volume and forwardness between when you are completely left and right?

When I do this, and turn balance completely left, the volume does not change, just the balance moves left (feels like left behind me). However, when I turn the knob to the right, it goes significantly louder and more forward. One could assume it's my ears (them not being equal) which is possible, but I hear the same thing even when I put my headhones in reverse (right pad on left ear, left pad on right ear).

Anyone with the same issue? My amp has not yet fully burned in (I am at around 40 hours mark). Normally, this strange behavior of the balance knob wouldn't bother me (as I wouldn't be listening on left or right), but I noticed that many songs (like Never Did This Before" by "Black Saint" on Tidal) just sound a bit to the right even with centered balance knob.

I am confused, is my brain broken, or is it the amp? Tried with another amp, there the same song is dead center, but no way to try shift the balance, as that amp does not have a knob for that. In both cases I feed the amps from Hugo 2 with RCA cables. I haven't tried V281 yet with Balanced out (waiting on balanced headphone cable) but tried V281 with both SE outputs and they behave the same way.

EDIT: I even tried changing the pre-gain, from -6 to 0 (unity) and observe the same.


----------



## Fegefeuer

That's by design:

"The balance control offers a precise center detent in case no adjustment 
is necessary. In order not to impair the V281’s perfect crosstalk specs, it 
takes effect on the right channel only."


----------



## mammal

Aaaand now I feel like I should have read the manual, haha. Thank you @Fegefeuer


----------



## Fegefeuer

No worries, I wondered the same many years ago and even wrote them a mail about it. Ehehehe 

Thankfully Fried forgot about this and refrained from sneaking into my apartment at night to replace the balance knob of my unit with a parental control version.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Fegefeuer said:


> No worries, I wondered the same many years ago and even wrote them a mail about it. Ehehehe
> 
> Thankfully Fried forgot about this and refrained from sneaking into my apartment at night to replace the balance knob of my unit with a parental control version.



I made some clearly incorrect comments about my V281 some time ago--not concerning its normal function, which is superb, but concerning my opamp rolling experiments w/it. Anyway, I will always appreciate the way Fried let me down gently (here and via personal email), failing to label me a moron who couldn't hear sonic differences if they bit me in the ass. Instead, he pointed out the error of my ways in an evenhanded manner, which I appreciated. The fact that he would take time from his busy days to weigh on in my silliness illustrated his concern for Violectric customers. 

In other words, Fried refrained from sneaking into my house at night to place the "You're a moron!" sign on my V281.


----------



## mammal

So I have been doing further testing and I realised why I felt that V281 balance knob "does not go as much left as it goes right". What I mean is that if it operates only on the right channel, let's say adds or subtracts 6db volume, then it should sound the same volume difference when the knob is max left or right. That sounds good in theory right? Well, I just did a hearing test and learned that I have around 3db hearing loss on my left ear compared to my right hear on frequencies above 4kHz. That would explain why going max left sounded different than max right, as already the middle spot is more towards the right (for my ears).


----------



## mammal

Upgrading to my DAC to Hugo TT 2 (which has also powerful enough AMP for my Diana's), so in case anyone wants to purchase V281 FE with 3 years warranty, lemme know.


----------



## Ratephi

Thought I'd let you guys know that I'm selling my V281 and you can find the relevant classified here: LINK

Reach out in case of questions!


----------



## Trance_Gott

Hi, I'm selling my V281 if someone located in EU is interested.
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/violectric-v281-with-relais-volume-control-remote.4047/


----------



## sahmen

I'm also about to sell mine now on the US market, but do not know what to reasonably ask by way of pricing:  It was originally purchased in 2016, in perfect working order and comes with the remote and standard volume control. It has the black face plate. Looking inside the classifieds, pricing is all over the place, so I'm kind of stumped about what a reasonable asking price ought to be.  Any ideas?  For the moment I am considering pricing as "negotiable," which means next to nothing to me.. lol    

I'm selling only because I want to upgrade, probably to one of the Niimbus models.


----------



## mammal

sahmen said:


> I'm also about to sell mine now on the US market, but do not know what to reasonably ask by way of pricing: It was originally purchased in 2016, in perfect working order and comes with the remote and standard volume control. It has the black face plate. Looking inside the classifieds, pricing is all over the place, so I'm kind of stumped about what a reasonable asking price ought to be. Any ideas? For the moment I am considering pricing as "negotiable," which means next to nothing to me.. lol


I sold mine for $1750, it was the final edition model, that came with integrated DAC, but no remote/relay stepped volume control. When I sold it, it was one or two months old, and I sold it within 3 days. So perhaps the pricing strategy you want to employ is what is your current competition, do you ship and pay for fees and how long are you willing to find a buyer. I wanted to sell fast, so I priced it appropriately.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> I'm also about to sell mine now on the US market, but do not know what to reasonably ask by way of pricing:  It was originally purchased in 2016, in perfect working order and comes with the remote and standard volume control. It has the black face plate. Looking inside the classifieds, pricing is all over the place, so I'm kind of stumped about what a reasonable asking price ought to be.  Any ideas?  For the moment I am considering pricing as "negotiable," which means next to nothing to me.. lol
> 
> I'm selling only because I want to upgrade, probably to one of the Niimbus models.



By "standard volume control" do you mean the analogue/not-stepped volume control? If yes, that's worth somewhat less than the same model w/the 128-stepped volume control + remote. That factor probably mattered more before the V281 was DQ'd.

If I were in your shoes, I'd list for ~$1750 and be willing to accept $100 less. In your favor is the fact the V281 is now unobtanium and still prized by many headphone people (and few come up F.S.)


----------



## tholt

Pharmaboy said:


> That factor probably mattered more before the V281 was DQ'd


What is 'DQ'd'?


----------



## mammal

tholt said:


> What is 'DQ'd'?


De-commissioned


----------



## Fegefeuer

"Dodo Quetzalcoatlused", meaning, extinct, EOL.


----------



## tholt

^ I presumed the meaning, but wasn't clear on the actual words behind the initials. Never heard that term before, but


----------



## Pharmaboy

tholt said:


> What is 'DQ'd'?



It means discontinued. 

Maybe I'm the only one who uses that particular acronym. Or maybe it could also mean "Dairy Queen'd"?  I probably should stop using it.


----------



## jonathan c

Pharmaboy said:


> It means discontinued.
> 
> Maybe I'm the only one who uses that particular acronym. Or maybe it could also mean "Dairy Queen'd"?  I probably should stop using it.


In golf, it is disqualified (signing a scorecard with an incorrect score on it)


----------



## Pharmaboy

jonathan c said:


> In golf, it is disqualified (signing a scorecard with an incorrect score on it)


True. Never thought of that. This is another reason I'll stop using that particular acronym...


----------



## tholt

DQ to me meant disqualified as well. But didn't make sense in the context of an amp, thus my interpretation. But if you're meaning Dairy Queen'd, that opens up a world of possibilities.... good and bad


----------



## sahmen (Jun 1, 2021)

Pharmaboy said:


> It means discontinued.
> 
> Maybe I'm the only one who uses that particular acronym. Or maybe it could also mean "Dairy Queen'd"?  I probably should stop using it.


Personally, I do not think you should stop using it, especially since it has just proven itself to be such an excellent conversation starter   

I personally think I can live with all interpretations of "DQ," with the exception "discombobulated," at which point  everything might start going haywire..


----------



## tholt (Jun 9, 2021)

Have a question on the balance control. Anyone use theirs? I know it only adds or subtracts from the R channel. What's interesting is that when I turn it a little to the R -- say 2-3 marks -- instead of the sound and imaging obviously moving more toward the R, it actually seems like the soundstage gets a bit wider but the imaging/voice still stays in the middle.

To be clear, turning it significantly to the R definitely skews the sound that way. I'm only referring to turning it a few notches.

I think I might actually prefer the bal knob turned a couple marks to the R for the expanded soundstage. What are others' experiences? Does turning the knob a bit to the R obviously skew the sound R or is your experience similar to mine? I'm trying to figure out if my R ear is actually a bit worse than my L or if it's just the particular way this balance control works.


----------



## Delta9K (Jun 8, 2021)

@tholt  Check this out, you can scroll up several messages to get the context of the conversation.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced.705318/post-10832913


----------



## tholt

Delta9K said:


> @tholt  Check this out, you can scroll up several messages to get the context of the conversation.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/violectric-hpa-v281-vorsprung-durch-balanced.705318/post-10832913


Super helpful! Thanks!


----------



## J Mirra (Jul 3, 2021)

I have bought a used V281 with the 24/196 USB DAC. I do have other DAC's but I would like the Windows 10 driver to try it.
I have read it is not as good as standalone but I would like to hear it anyway.

Would anyone be as kind to show me where I can find it? I have spent a while now looking online to no avail and the seller never used the DAC so does not have the driver.

Edit : I do not know if it is the Tenor or X-Mos chipset that is installed.

Fingers crossed, thanks in advance.


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 3, 2021)

I think your best bet may be to try Violectric and asking.
You can use this link, and fill out the form. https://www.violectric.de/en/technical-enquiry

I can tell you what you've already heard, keeping in mind that mine is just the 96KHz version.  It plays music, but there is not much more to say about it...

Also, if you do have the 24/192 version I think it will still be recognized by Windows as a USB 1.1 or 2.0 audio device, only limited to 96KHz


----------



## J Mirra

Delta9K said:


> I think your best bet may be to try Violectric and asking.
> You can use this link, and fill out the form. https://www.violectric.de/en/technical-enquiry
> 
> I can tell you what you've already heard, keeping in mind that mine is just the 96KHz version.  It plays music, but there is not much more to say about it...


I had emailed shortly after I had posted on here but thank you.


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 5, 2021)

Deleted


----------



## J Mirra (Jul 6, 2021)

Fried replied to my email 

Spending a few days with this amp I can say this is the sound I have been looking for, I am very happy.
I am using it with a music production DAC the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 while I wait for the Gustard X26 Pro to arrive. It already sounds amazing, such a big enveloping sound like I am in the middle of the music as it is feed to me from the outside.

I would not call it dark or smooth like I have read, to my ears I would call it correct.

Edit : I forgot to add for gaming this is the best directional imaging I have heard.
Xbox Series X > Dolby Atmos app > USB > Astro Mix amp TR > v281 > XLR > HD800 Dupont


----------



## Fegefeuer

I don't know if the BlasterX G6's USB is accepted by the Series X for passing through the Atmos for Headphones via USB.

Would be great to go XSX -> G6 optical through the Gustard to the v281 and should be a significant leap.

It works for the PS5, thus I am using PS5 USB -> G6 optical -> V590


----------



## J Mirra

I like the sound of your set up, very nice.

I know with mine in the past I did not have great vertical imaging, I knew someone was either upstairs or downstairs but I couldnt tell which one and would guess (Cold War) 
The RNHP or SA-1 could not give me in sound information I needed. Now i can tell up or down and the distance they are in said room. Same goes for the horizontal positioning it is outstanding.
So pleased.


----------



## ctrlm

In a moment of madness I just pulled the trigger on a V281 Final Edition, that will arrive later next week. I probably won't use the DAC but it was the same price as the standard edition so why not?

My three DACs are Bifrost 2, Topping D70 and Chord Qutest. It will be interesting to see how they all go with it.


----------



## J Mirra

ctrlm said:


> In a moment of madness I just pulled the trigger on a V281 Final Edition, that will arrive later next week. I probably won't use the DAC but it was the same price as the standard edition so why not?
> 
> My three DACs are Bifrost 2, Topping D70 and Chord Qutest. It will be interesting to see how they all go with it.


You will be very happy I am sure.


----------



## Simple Man

ctrlm said:


> In a moment of madness I just pulled the trigger on a V281 Final Edition, that will arrive later next week. I probably won't use the DAC but it was the same price as the standard edition so why not?
> 
> My three DACs are Bifrost 2, Topping D70 and Chord Qutest. It will be interesting to see how they all go with it.


Great choice. Congratulations!!
I use the 281 with the Qutest, a great combi. 
The bifrost2 was also a dac I was interested in but I never had the change to try it.
Have fun with it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ctrlm said:


> In a moment of madness I just pulled the trigger on a V281 Final Edition, that will arrive later next week. I probably won't use the DAC but it was the same price as the standard edition so why not?
> 
> My three DACs are Bifrost 2, Topping D70 and Chord Qutest. It will be interesting to see how they all go with it.


I love my V281, which has the 128-stepped pot & remote but no DAC. I've used it with 3 or 4 DACs, the best of which is an NOS design (MHDT Labs Orchid w/pricey NOS tube rolled into output buffer). Sound is wonderful.

I seriously doubt the V281 could manage to sound bad (or even "eh") with any source component.


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 10, 2021)

Pharmaboy said:


> I seriously doubt the V281 could manage to sound bad (or even "eh") with any source component.


Well, I currently pair my V281 with a Soekris 1541, but I have ordered a Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE, so I will find out how those two synergize soon. The question lingers in the back of my mind if they will work well together, or lean a little too much towards the warmer side so I am prepared to source another amp to pair with it, if it comes to that. I won't make any decisions until after I get a chance to hear the Spring 3 first hand, and I'll go from there.

The V281 I have does have the 24/96 onboard DAC - but I only tried it once. It plays music and I hear things - I'll leave it at that.


----------



## musicus

Delta9K said:


> Well, I currently pair my V281 with a Soekris 1541, but I have ordered a Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE, so I will find out how those two synergize soon. The question lingers in the back of my mind if they will work well together, or lean a little too much towards the warmer side so I am prepared to source another amp to pair with it, if it comes to that. I won't make any decisions until after I get a chance to hear the Spring 3 first hand, and I'll go from there.
> 
> The V281 I have does have the 24/96 onboard DAC - but I only tried it once. It plays music and I hear things - I'll leave it at that.



Stating the obvious but nevertheless: if variations in headphones are in the thousands and variations in amps are in hundreds, then variations in DACs are in tens and therefore there's no point chasing one DAC or another before one is fully done with the first two, IMHO of course...


----------



## monkey4054

What's everyone's opinion on the new V550 compared to the V281?

Currently deciding between the V550 and V281 Final Edition for driving the Focal Clear, Final D8000, and Fostex TH-900.
Looking to add an Abyss AB1266 and/or HE6SE in the future.

Also, anyone have any suggestions for a good DAC pairing with the Violetric amps?

Thanks.


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## ctrlm (Jul 15, 2021)

My V281 FE has arrived and I got to play with it for a few hours last night. I have the Chord Qutest hooked up via RCA using the Qutest's 3V output, which I think is around 12dB into the V281 and the Topping D70 (original model) hooked up via XLR.

So far I have set the V281 pre-gain to -6dB with my easiest to drive headphones being the Denon D9200 and the hardest to drive being the Hifiman Sundara. I think I could even go to -12dB pre-gain to accommodate a bit more volume range for the very sensitive Denons and I might try that this weekend.

I also have the Focal Clear, Hifiman Ananda & HD650 so there is plenty to try. I use balanced cables on all my headphones.

The difference so far between the Qutest and the D70 is very obvious, with each contributing it's own particular advantages depending on the type of music and the particular headphone used. I also have the Bifrost 2 that I tried briefly but I think I'll leave that in my main speaker setup for now.

I won't comment too much yet on overall performance and sound impressions as it's way too early, other than so far so good 

Oh, and I love the industrial look of this amp. It's a beast and I'm expecting some "what the hell is that?" comments when I have visitors.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ctrlm said:


> It's a beast and I'm expecting some "what the hell is that?" comments when I have visitors.


Visitors are so over-rated...


----------



## Simple Man

ctrlm said:


> My V281 FE has arrived and I got to play with it for a few hours last night. I have the Chord Qutest hooked up via RCA using the Qutest's 3V output, which I think is around 12dB into the V281 and the Topping D70 (original model) hooked up via XLR.
> 
> So far I have set the V281 pre-gain to -6dB with my easiest to drive headphones being the Denon D9200 and the hardest to drive being the Hifiman Sundara. I think I could even go to -12dB pre-gain to accommodate a bit more volume range for the very sensitive Denons and I might try that this weekend.
> 
> ...


Did you try the Qutest on 2v as well?  I’ve done some tests with it and found out this was the best, a bit less ‘forced’. Gain was somewhere in the middle.
Y ou have some nice headphones to try. 
Good luck and have lotsvof fun!


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## ctrlm (Jul 16, 2021)

Simple Man said:


> Did you try the Qutest on 2v as well?  I’ve done some tests with it and found out this was the best, a bit less ‘forced’. Gain was somewhere in the middle.
> Y ou have some nice headphones to try.
> Good luck and have lotsvof fun!


I had the Qutest on 2V to start and then switched it to 3V, I can't say I noticed an appreciable difference other than the volume but I'll check it out some more later. I like the higher voltage to narrow the volume difference between RCA and XLR when switching between the Qutest & D70.

I've now settled on -12dB pre-gain on the amp as it creates a near perfect volume range for my headphone collection - between 10 o'clock 3 o'clock for most listening.


----------



## tholt

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere, but is there a difference between the final edition and the 281s before it, other than cosmetics and the inclusion of a DAC?


----------



## ctrlm

tholt said:


> Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere, but is there a difference between the final edition and the 281s before it, other than cosmetics and the inclusion of a DAC?


No published difference apart from those you mentioned.....same specs everywhere else.

I had no intention of buying the Final Edition but my retailer had it on sale at AU $500 less than the standard model without DAC, so I purchased the FE purely as a money saving exercise.


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## ctrlm (Jul 17, 2021)

Does anyone know any details of the DAC used in the Final Edition ie. chip used etc? I found some scattered info that suggests it might be the Burr Brown PCM1798?

Just curious.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ctrlm said:


> No published difference apart from those you mentioned.....same specs everywhere else.
> 
> I had no intention of buying the Final Edition but my retailer had it on sale at AU $500 less than the standard model without DAC, so I purchased the FE purely as a money saving exercise.


It may have been purely a money saving exercise, but you scored one of the really excellent headphone amp/preamps around. There are any number of people jonesing for this recently discontinued model and wishing they were in your shoes.

The V281 is my favorite HP amp & preamp by a country mile (I have 5 or 6 others, and have bought & sold 3-4 others).


----------



## ctrlm

ctrlm said:


> Does anyone know any details of the DAC used in the Final Edition ie. chip used etc? I found some scattered info that suggests it might be the Burr Brown PCM1798?
> 
> Just curious.


I finally tried the USB DAC in my Final Edition, with NAS content via my iMac and using Audirvana 3.5 as the player.

The first thing I did was feed it 24/192 content to see if if it was the 24/192 module and not the 24/96.....and it is in fact 24/192. I listened to a few more well known tracks using my Supra USB cable. It was not great - a little edgy and lacking definition as well as a reduced soundstage compared to the Qutest (which is very good in this particular aspect). I then inserted the best 12 Euros I've ever spent, a USB adapter cable that takes external 5V power and blocks the power from the computer:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dc-p...e-for-55-21mm-female-power-supply-p-8332.html

With 5V power coming from an LPS, the internal DAC sounded much better. The bass was better defined, deeper & impactful and the slight edginess was gone, overall it was a smoother presentation. It is probably a safe bet to assume that the internal DAC in the V281 does not have galvanic isolation. 

So with the external 5V power it's a very decent DAC, it reminds me a bit of the AKM DACs I have with that touch of warm mid bass bloom, especially compared to the Qutest.


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 30, 2021)

Delta9K said:


> I currently pair my V281 with a Soekris 1541, but I have ordered a Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE, so I will find out how those two synergize soon.


With just under 160 hours listening with the Holo Spring 3 feeding signal into the V281, I can say IMO these 2 pieces work nicely with each other. I did adjust the input gain to -6db on the 281 to account for the higher output voltage of the Spring. The system sounds good and the DAC isn't even fully run in yet so I expect it will continue to improve. It's not too warm or overly smoothed and I've no sense of exaggerated or unnatural staging. I was enamoured with Soekris/281 pair up but the Holo takes it next level.

At this point I am now wondering to myself what the heck would I even look at as an upgrade from the V281?


----------



## jonathan c

Delta9K said:


> With just under 160 hours listening with the Holo Spring 3 feeding signal into the V281, I can say IMO these 2 pieces work nicely with each other. I did adjust the input gain to -6db on the 281 to account for the higher output voltage of the Spring. The system sounds good and the DAC isn't even fully run in yet so I expect it will continue to improve. It's not too warm or overly smoothed and I've no sense of exaggerated or unnatural staging. I was enamoured with Soekris/281 pair up but the Holo takes it next level.
> 
> At this point I am now wondering to myself what the heck would I even look at as an upgrade to the V281?


Niimbus 5?…


----------



## tholt (Jul 30, 2021)

I just saw that Violectric is releasing the 340 and 380, the latter has a DAC. Seems that is the direction Vio is going as the 550 is sans DAC while the 590 has one. The 340/80 look to be based on the 550 but with less power (I'm simplifying). They note '8db less noise than the 281' in the specs so that's something. This is good news and fills a nice slot in the lineup. Exciting Vio is releasing some new and improved gear.

Edit, better link: https://www.violectric.de/en/shop/headphone-amps/violectric-hpa-v340


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## musicus (Jul 30, 2021)

The Violectric vast product range of headphone amps is getting even bigger, frankly that is a bad move from marketing point of view and even more confusing than 6 months ago when I dropped the idea of getting one because I couldn't decide on which one - and got a pass labs instead! They only have one model since the launch in 2015, but it's a well sorted flagship item. I think I'm done with amps for the next decade! 😺


----------



## vkenz

musicus said:


> the violectric vast product range of headphone amps is confusing. i considered one but couldnt decide on which one, so i bought a pass labs - they only have one model since the launch in 2015, a well sorted flagship amp, and I think I'm done with amps for the next decade! 😺


You might wanna consider to upgrade to amps with 4.4mm jack or at least an XLR jack for balanced.


----------



## musicus (Jul 30, 2021)

I'm not sure about going balanced, certainly not for increased power as both my amps are single ended and have more power than what is needed for the lcd-x and hd800s. And going balanced for noise rejection is bollocks in my opinion. The remaining reason is perhaps reduced cross talk but - I used to have a Headamp amp with x-feed function (gimmick if you ask me) and from that perspective I'm, not worried about cross talk much. A simplicity of a single ended class A is the sweet spot for me, long term. Don't get me wrong though, I am a fan of Violectric and their V-200 was my end game amp for good 6 years.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The HPA-1 is a fine amp. No need for change.


----------



## S Crowther

musicus said:


> I'm not sure about going balanced, certainly not for increased power as both my amps are single ended and have more power than what is needed for the lcd-x and hd800s. And going balanced for noise rejection is bollocks in my opinion. The remaining reason is perhaps reduced cross talk but - I used to have a Headamp amp with x-feed function (gimmick if you ask me) and from that perspective I'm, not worried about cross talk much. A simplicity of a single ended class A is the sweet spot for me, long term. Don't get me wrong though, I am a fan of Violectric and their V-200 was my end game amp for good 6 years.


I believe the V281 is only balanced at its output stage. A balanced input is converted to SE for amplification and then converted back to balanced for output?


----------



## Ichos

S Crowther said:


> I believe the V281 is only balanced at its output stage. A balanced input is converted to SE for amplification and then converted back to balanced for output?


Yes that is correct.
The single ended input has a priority.


----------



## Giru

musicus said:


> The Violectric vast product range of headphone amps is getting even bigger, frankly that is a bad move from marketing point of view and even more confusing than 6 months ago when I dropped the idea of getting one because I couldn't decide on which one - and got a pass labs instead! They only have one model since the launch in 2015, but it's a well sorted flagship item. I think I'm done with amps for the next decade! 😺


I liked the Pass a lot but it was a bit syrupy for my tastes. The V281 on the other hand has a similar organic sound but blends in transparency and musicality that I couldn't hear with any other amps that I tried. That said, the build quality and aesthetics of the pass are really second to none. I'm sure it will serve you for a long time


----------



## Terriero

ctrlm said:


> My V281 FE has arrived and I got to play with it for a few hours last night. I have the Chord Qutest hooked up via RCA using the Qutest's 3V output, which I think is around 12dB into the V281 and the Topping D70 (original model) hooked up via XLR.
> 
> So far I have set the V281 pre-gain to -6dB with my easiest to drive headphones being the Denon D9200 and the hardest to drive being the Hifiman Sundara. I think I could even go to -12dB pre-gain to accommodate a bit more volume range for the very sensitive Denons and I might try that this weekend.
> 
> ...


Have you notice an improvement in sound with this amp and the 9200s? Most people in it's thread use cheap amps with them, but other have noticed that they scale. I don't know if I will notice a considerable improvement with a Vio amp (I'm using now an Asus Xonar Essence One and I'm considering to change it soon).


----------



## tholt

musicus said:


> The Violectric vast product range of headphone amps is getting even bigger, frankly that is a bad move from marketing point of view and even more confusing than 6 months ago when I dropped the idea of getting one because I couldn't decide on which one - and got a pass labs instead! They only have one model since the launch in 2015, but it's a well sorted flagship item. I think I'm done with amps for the next decade! 😺


The prior product range had more models, but the current product range has essentially only 2 models -- the 340 and the 550. Both are available w/DACs as separate models but still not too hard to figure out.


----------



## godmax

Terriero said:


> Have you notice an improvement in sound with this amp and the 9200s? Most people in it's thread use cheap amps with them, but other have noticed that they scale. I don't know if I will notice a considerable improvement with a Vio amp (I'm using now an Asus Xonar Essence One and I'm considering to change it soon).


IMHO the D9200 may improve with better amplification slightly, but not to extend as other headphones do - they sound fabulous on almost everything! Even on my ZEN DAC or Hiby R3 Pro Sabre they can unfold many of their qualities already.
On the V281 I rarely use them, but that is rather a matter of indiviual preference due to the minor smoothening of the bass frequencies by the Violectric, maybe the newer upstream models might do this a little different. I personally prefer the D9200 the most on the Questyle CMA 400i.
Other than that the V281 is still a great amp to use.


----------



## Delta9K

Delta9K said:


> At this point I am now wondering to myself what the heck would I even look at as an upgrade from the V281?


I've ordered a v550 - time will tell.


----------



## Ichos

Delta9K said:


> I've ordered a v550 - time will tell.


Great choice.
I wish I could afford one.


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## milkdudd (Aug 28, 2021)

Greetings all. First post on this particular thread. Purchased a V281 FE a month ago or so. Before I purchased this I thought I would be using one set of components for my stereo room and one set for my headphone station. I knew I needed a really good preamp with balanced XLR in and out for my stereo room. But I also wanted a really good headphone amp. The V281 has been terrific at each task. Having adjustable gains for headphone and XLR outputs is a real plus. A couple of days ago I purchased an Ether 2 online with a 10-ft balanced cable. That cable reaches to my regular listening location in my stereo room. I have remotes for everything. If I knew how good the V281 was as a do-it-all component, I would have purchased one years ago. Only thing I don't see using is the built-in dac, but it doesn't hurt anything to have it there


----------



## tdx

Hi everyone, I'm considering getting one of these units soon and had a few questions:
- I'm planning to use it to drive hard to drive cans (Susvaras, maybe LCD-5s). I've read varying reports on whether they are powerful enough to drive those, but i think they are. Can someone confirm? 
- Except for the lack of preamp, are there other differences between the V280 and the V281? Is the V281 more powerful/better for hard to drive cans?
- Do these get hot during operation? I have an amp right now that gets super hot during playback and it annoys me.

Thanks!


----------



## Lucky87 (Oct 12, 2021)

I tried it with the Susvara and yes it will power them but not to the fullest of there capability. My favorite headphone with the V281 was the Meze Empyrean made it have great speed with authoritative impact with the headphone.


----------



## tdx

Lucky87 said:


> I tried it with the Susvara and yes it will power them but not to the fullest of there capability. My favorite headphone with the V281 was the Meze Empyrean made it have great speed with authoritative impact with the headphone.


Thanks for confirming. Do you know a similarly priced/sized amp that would work with the Susvaras?


----------



## Pharmaboy

tdx said:


> Hi everyone, I'm considering getting one of these units soon and had a few questions:
> - I'm planning to use it to drive hard to drive cans (Susvaras, maybe LCD-5s). I've read varying reports on whether they are powerful enough to drive those, but i think they are. Can someone confirm?
> - Except for the lack of preamp, are there other differences between the V280 and the V281? Is the V281 more powerful/better for hard to drive cans?
> - Do these get hot during operation? I have an amp right now that gets super hot during playback and it annoys me.
> ...


My V281 handles every headphone I own or tried here with great ease. Then again, the Susvara is one of the very few headphones (HFM HE6/SE; big Abyss; Susvara) that really benefit from a mega amp, one having greater power than the very powerful V281.

My hardest to drive headphone is the ZMF Ori (a very extensive/creative Fostex mod); that's a true power hog, but it lights up like a Christmas tree on the V281.

Your other questions:

Main differences between V280 & V281 are:
_V281's bigger case_
_V281's bigger/stronger power supply_
_V281's extensive gain adjustment, separate for headphones (external dip switches) vs preamp/line out (internal dipswitches)_
_V281 models included those that are remote controlled + non-stepped Alps pot; or remote controlled + 128-step pot (mine is the latter)_
_The V281 is a superb preamp, in a class by itself...I don't believe the V280 can be operated as a preamp, at least not without changing internal settings that may preclude its use as a HP amp (would have to check the manual to verify that). In any case, the V280 cannot be remote controlled_

The V281 never gets noticeably hot
*Note about sound: *IMO the V281 represents the peak expression of the Lake People/Violectric "house sound," solid state sound done perfectly well: very deep, hard hitting bass; big, expressive midrange; musical, flowing musical treble, not enhanced or edgy at all; more than enough resolution, but not SOTA resolution (a good thing in my view); spectacular dynamics overall; and spectacular soundstaging overall.


----------



## tdx

Pharmaboy said:


> My V281 handles every headphone I own or tried here with great ease. Then again, the Susvara is one of the very few headphones (HFM HE6/SE; big Abyss; Susvara) that really benefit from a mega amp, one having greater power than the very powerful V281.
> 
> My hardest to drive headphone is the ZMF Ori (a very extensive/creative Fostex mod); that's a true power hog, but it lights up like a Christmas tree on the V281.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for all this info, very helpful. TBH I would go for a V550/Niimbus if I could but I'm looking not to break the bank and the V280/281 can be had for a bargain, esp. used. Sounds like the 281 is better equipped for the Suvaras, will go that route.


----------



## tholt

tdx said:


> Hi everyone, I'm considering getting one of these units soon and had a few questions:
> - I'm planning to use it to drive hard to drive cans (Susvaras, maybe LCD-5s). I've read varying reports on whether they are powerful enough to drive those, but i think they are. Can someone confirm?
> - Except for the lack of preamp, are there other differences between the V280 and the V281? Is the V281 more powerful/better for hard to drive cans?
> - Do these get hot during operation? I have an amp right now that gets super hot during playback and it annoys me.
> ...


FWIW I've been using a 281 to drive Abyss TCs and it's been very enjoyable. I agree with above post, V281 has a special signature that is always firmly in the 'musical' side of the spectrum. It's a great amp, esp at current used prices.


----------



## tdx

tholt said:


> FWIW I've been using a 281 to drive Abyss TCs and it's been very enjoyable. I agree with above post, V281 has a special signature that is always firmly in the 'musical' side of the spectrum. It's a great amp, esp at current used prices.


Thanks. I researched and researched and it seems to be the best bang for buck right now when it comes to amps for hungry HPs. My other two options are the Soundaware P1 and the Kinki THR-1 but they have gotten very few reviews and they're hard to find.


----------



## Pharmaboy

tdx said:


> Thanks. I researched and researched and it seems to be the best bang for buck right now when it comes to amps for hungry HPs. My other two options are the Soundaware P1 and the Kinki THR-1 but they have gotten very few reviews and they're hard to find.


I got very interested in the Kinki THR-1, based on reviews/comments about its power & sound--and the price is right. What killed it for me was:

No remote (I need a remote if using as preamp, which I would want to do); and
Preamp out is balanced only. Not a complete dealbreaker, but would need to spend more $ to get 2 adapters


----------



## tholt

tdx said:


> Thanks. I researched and researched and it seems to be the best bang for buck right now when it comes to amps for hungry HPs. My other two options are the Soundaware P1 and the Kinki THR-1 but they have gotten very few reviews and they're hard to find.


It's a fantastic amp deserving of its 'classic' status IMO. At used prices, it's kind of a no-brainer. There's one that's for sale for like $1300 something. I'm amazed nobody has snapped that up. FWIW I demo'd the Soundaware briefly. Nothing special to me.


----------



## tdx

Pharmaboy said:


> I got very interested in the Kinki THR-1, based on reviews/comments about its power & sound--and the price is right. What killed it for me was:
> 
> No remote (I need a remote if using as preamp, which I would want to do); and
> Preamp out is balanced only. Not a complete dealbreaker, but would need to spend more $ to get 2 adapters


Got it thanks. These are not deal breakers in my usage. Do you think in that case the THR-1 is a better buy than the V281? They can be had for about the same price...


----------



## tdx

tholt said:


> It's a fantastic amp deserving of its 'classic' status IMO. At used prices, it's kind of a no-brainer. There's one that's for sale for like $1300 something. I'm amazed nobody has snapped that up. FWIW I demo'd the Soundaware briefly. Nothing special to me.


Thanks for the info. Only reason I was considering the P1 was it was highly talked about by early owners of the Susvara. But then talk died down and no one talks about it anymore. Maybe that's why. Looks like the V281 is the better buy.


----------



## Pharmaboy

tdx said:


> Got it thanks. These are not deal breakers in my usage. Do you think in that case the THR-1 is a better buy than the V281? They can be had for about the same price...


Maybe if you look strictly as money-out-of-pocket the THR-1 is slightly better (new THR-1 vs used V281). Also, it might have greater power for high impedance headphones than the V281 (would have to compare manuals to pin that down). Also, it's a very handsome design that looks well made and actually could fit in my crowded desktop. 

But keep the following points in mind:

Violectric/Lake People actively support their products. They have U.S. support and of course, home office support in Germany. I got help with an issue on my V281 from Violectric's USA rep, Arthur/Power Holdings, even though I had purchased mine used. I don't think the support Kinki offers would be in the same league, though I admit I never tried and haven't read a word about their support
The V281 has an unusual degree of gain adjustment flexibility. That may or may not matter to you, but it's extremely important to me with my borderline too-high gain system. I have the gain of both the headphone outputs & preamp outputs set down by 12 dB. Pretty amazing I could do that.


----------



## Slim1970

tholt said:


> It's a fantastic amp deserving of its 'classic' status IMO. At used prices, it's kind of a no-brainer. There's one that's for sale for like $1300 something. I'm amazed nobody has snapped that up. FWIW I demo'd the Soundaware briefly. Nothing special to me.


Agreed the Soundaware P1 was not match for the V281. I don't have neither any longer but I would rate the V281 higher.


----------



## tdx

Pharmaboy said:


> Maybe if you look strictly as money-out-of-pocket the THR-1 is slightly better (new THR-1 vs used V281). Also, it might have greater power for high impedance headphones than the V281 (would have to compare manuals to pin that down). Also, it's a very handsome design that looks well made and actually could fit in my crowded desktop.
> 
> But keep the following points in mind:
> 
> ...


Thanks. I'll check both units and try to figure out which works better, if so I'll update this thread.


----------



## tdx

Slim1970 said:


> Agreed the Soundaware P1 was not match for the V281. I don't have neither any longer but I would rate the V281 higher.


Thank you.


----------



## milkdudd (Oct 12, 2021)

Pharmaboy, I completely agree with you that the V281 is a superb preamp. In fact if that's all it did I would still feel like I got my money's worth and then some. The fact that it's a TOTL headphone amp with remote control, and in my case has a built-in Dac to use in a pinch puts it over the top. One thing I would bring to your attention. If you're using the single ended outputs, make sure you never have the xlr outputs also connected at the same time. It's one little sentence in the manual. Lucky I noticed it. I tried it both ways just to prove it to myself and sure enough when single ended and balanced outputs are connected at the same time there's a noticeable loss in sound quality. I realize you probably already know this I thought I would just be sure

Edit: forgot to mention that mine is the F.E. version. That might not matter to some people but to me knowing I have one of less than 100 in existence is yet another reason I wouldn't sell it for any price. Not that I need another reason not to sell, the sound quality is enough for that


----------



## Pharmaboy

milkdudd said:


> Pharmaboy, I completely agree with you that the V281 is a superb preamp. In fact if that's all it did I would still feel like I got my money's worth and then some. The fact that it's a TOTL headphone amp with remote control, and in my case has a built-in Dac to use in a pinch puts it over the top. One thing I would bring to your attention. If you're using the single ended outputs, make sure you never have the xlr outputs also connected at the same time. It's one little sentence in the manual. Lucky I noticed it. I tried it both ways just to prove it to myself and sure enough when single ended and balanced outputs are connected at the same time there's a noticeable loss in sound quality. I realize you probably already know this I thought I would just be sure
> 
> Edit: forgot to mention that mine is the F.E. version. That might not matter to some people but to me knowing I have one of less than 100 in existence is yet another reason I wouldn't sell it for any price. Not that I need another reason not to sell, the sound quality is enough for that


Yes, I know that sentence in the manual. Knowing how conservative Violectric in their designs, I took that sentence as gospel and never attempted simultaneous use of balanced vs single-ended output. 

Having the F.E. version is pretty cool! Picking that up was a smart move IMO.


----------



## squadgazzz

Has anyone got a chance to compare 281 with 181?


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## ivan1973

ciao a tutti, ho un V281 ormai da anni e ne sono pienamente soddisfatto un amplificatore incredibile, il mio è la versione con controllo volume a 128 step con telecomando, ormai da una settimana uso un V850 senza telecomando, volevo chiedere se qualcuno sa se posso usare il telecomando V281 per il V850 anche se quest'ultimo non è dotato di volume motorizzato, mi interessa solo cambiare gli ingressi del V850 tramite il telecomando V281, è possibile e come e' grazie molto


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## Fegefeuer

squadgazzz said:


> Has anyone got a chance to compare 281 with 181?



There's no argument for the v181 here except for the price for a used model. Everything else is a transformative experience and there's no going back.


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## Giru

Over the past few weeks I've had the pleasure of using the V281 as a pre. I bought the V281 solely based on the SQ of it's headphone output. Little did I know what this thing was capable of when put into preamp duties.

So about a month ago I got a full specced Odyssey Stratos Extreme Power amplifier (with the Kismet Boards and all possible upgrades). Initially used one of my tube preamps with it but I wasn't very happy with the sound. I thought let's give the Vio a try and I plugged it in. It sounded fine: detailed, transparent but was not very dynamic. The sound was okay but something was clearly missing. At the time I had completely forgotten about the internal gain settings. Interestingly, the preamp gain settings can be changed from the dip switches located on the preamp board but one has to open the unit to accomplish this. And so I did.

(If anyone who owns a V281 hasn't opened/unbolted their unit until now, I highly; HIGHLY recommend you do it! The sheer quality of the parts used here😍😍😍.....Peerless. I haven't held something as well put together as this. The thing is so well made that this might as well be the mascot for the term "German Engineering". The moment you pop out the first screw, you know you've got something for your money. Opening up the 281 was the most techgasmic thing I've experienced in the recent years.)

Anyway, I set the gain to +6db and put the unit back together. Connected my amp and boy oh boy!!! I haven't put on headphones for two weeks now. Need I say more?

The sound is clean, detailed, spacious, full bodied and very dynamic. The Vio and Stratos combo just disappear when the music is playing. It is perhaps the best my stereo system has ever sounded. The 281 is clearly a very capable preamplifier as well. This is indeed a keeper! Kudos to Fried and his team!!


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## milkdudd

Giru said:


> Over the past few weeks I've had the pleasure of using the V281 as a pre. I bought the V281 solely based on the SQ of it's headphone output. Little did I know what this thing was capable of when put into preamp duties.
> 
> So about a month ago I got a full specced Odyssey Stratos Extreme Power amplifier (with the Kismet Boards and all possible upgrades). Initially used one of my tube preamps with it but I wasn't very happy with the sound. I thought let's give the Vio a try and I plugged it in. It sounded fine: detailed, transparent but was not very dynamic. The sound was okay but something was clearly missing. At the time I had completely forgotten about the internal gain settings. Interestingly, the preamp gain settings can be changed from the dip switches located on the preamp board but one has to open the unit to accomplish this. And so I did.
> 
> ...


If I just shift around a few words here and there this whole post could just as well be mine. A preamp unlike anything I've heard. Separate adjustments for headphone gain and preamp output gain is a godsend. So sick of preamps that have my volume knob between 7:00 and 9:00 o'clock. With gain adjustments I now have mine between 10:00 and 2:00 give or take to get my desired volume. Mine is hooked up to an ATC P1 Pro amplifier. Also I have come up with some amazing interconnects that aren't cheap but they're not outrageous either. Big difference from my generic XLR cables that I started with. I will admit this is my first fully balanced preamp with XLR outputs so that might be part of it but that's not all of it. I agree when removing the cover it's really something to see. I would ask how long you've had it plugged in? When I first hooked mine up the initial listen had a slightly sibilant, hot treble. Words starting with s slightly even irritated me. Within a day or two that went away completely. So if by chance you just started using it yesterday or so it should get even better if you can imagine that. It stays warm even when you're not using it so that tells me keeping it plugged in and powered on is the way to go. I'm the same as you, bought it mostly for headphone and have used it about 95% for stereo speaker listening. When the time comes however I'm ready to go with headphones too


----------



## Pharmaboy

Giru said:


> Over the past few weeks I've had the pleasure of using the V281 as a pre. I bought the V281 solely based on the SQ of it's headphone output. Little did I know what this thing was capable of when put into preamp duties.
> 
> So about a month ago I got a full specced Odyssey Stratos Extreme Power amplifier (with the Kismet Boards and all possible upgrades). Initially used one of my tube preamps with it but I wasn't very happy with the sound. I thought let's give the Vio a try and I plugged it in. It sounded fine: detailed, transparent but was not very dynamic. The sound was okay but something was clearly missing. At the time I had completely forgotten about the internal gain settings. Interestingly, the preamp gain settings can be changed from the dip switches located on the preamp board but one has to open the unit to accomplish this. And so I did.
> 
> ...


I used my V281 as main system preamp from the day I got it--replacing the Audio GD SA-31SE that had done preamp duties before then. This turned out to be a great move for 2 reasons:

*The V281's sound*, both as headphone amp & preamp, is really special. I consider it solid state sound done exactly right. The musical tonality, powerful bass & wide dynamic range are the best I've heard IMS. The AGD's sound was OK, not something I was unhappy with--but the V281 is clearly better.
*And the V281's unusual flexibility of gain adjustment* (separate for preamp output/internal & for headphone outputs/back panel) helps me tame excessive gain in my desktop system, courtesy of DACs with 25%-50% more output voltage than the nominal 2.0v I was used to with earlier DACs. I set both internal & external DIP switches to -12 dB, which allows me use far more of the volume pot's rotational range than if the V281 was set to unity gain.*
*The Audio GD SA-31SE's most useful feature IMO is its logarithmic stepped relay volume pot--which, set to low gain, gives the user many "clicks" for low-volume adjustment (for both headphones & preamp output). This is how I tamed excessive gain before the V281's arrival, and why I keep the AGD around as a backup preamp.


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## tholt

This just opened up another very interesting possibility for me. I had briefly experimented with using regular stereo (integrated) amps to power my 1266 TC as many do. However, the gain was always too much. Never thought about using the 281 as a pre in front of a regular power amp to try since I didn't even know about the internal DIP switches. Dang! Might be something to look into.


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## Giru

milkdudd said:


> If I just shift around a few words here and there this whole post could just as well be mine. A preamp unlike anything I've heard. Separate adjustments for headphone gain and preamp output gain is a godsend. So sick of preamps that have my volume knob between 7:00 and 9:00 o'clock. With gain adjustments I now have mine between 10:00 and 2:00 give or take to get my desired volume. Mine is hooked up to an ATC P1 Pro amplifier. Also I have come up with some amazing interconnects that aren't cheap but they're not outrageous either. Big difference from my generic XLR cables that I started with. I will admit this is my first fully balanced preamp with XLR outputs so that might be part of it but that's not all of it. I agree when removing the cover it's really something to see. I would ask how long you've had it plugged in? When I first hooked mine up the initial listen had a slightly sibilant, hot treble. Words starting with s slightly even irritated me. Within a day or two that went away completely. So if by chance you just started using it yesterday or so it should get even better if you can imagine that. It stays warm even when you're not using it so that tells me keeping it plugged in and powered on is the way to go. I'm the same as you, bought it mostly for headphone and have used it about 95% for stereo speaker listening. When the time comes however I'm ready to go with headphones too


Seperate gain settings are indeed a godsend. Initially, I mistook the "input gain" to be the only gain setting possible and was quite disappointed as changing it did not affect the performance much. The preamp gain change literally turned this into something else. The best part is that having this flexibilty means you can match the Vio to a variety of power amps; and knowing how this sounds; why wouldn't you??😅😁😁

I think even I noticed the highs to be a bit hot initially but I chalked it to me not having used the preamp section at all previously and that it was part of the "break in". Anyway, this has been running since quite a few days and the highs are not at all hot anymore. Just the right amount of shimmer and glitter with the same smooth sound that I get from the balanced headphone out. Infact I find the pre-out to be slightly more detailed too (or maybe its just the speakers). My 800S has been snoozing in the case for weeks now. 

I can only imagine the balanced pre out will be even better since my observations are based on the SE output (the manual says that the balanced out is 8db hotter compared to the SE output, so maybe I'll have to dial down the gain if I used balanced). Unfortunately the Stratos balanced input is not "truly balanced" so no point going bal from the Vio here. I'll surely give it a try when I do get my hands on some good bal interconnects. Nevertheless, the quality of sound that I'm getting currently is just phenomenal.

I should've gotten the remote!! Damn!!!😓😅


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## milkdudd

I see there's a final addition unit up for sale here on the forum. 1200 GBP=1650 US. I can't believe nobody has snatched it up after about a full day for sale. Shipping to great Britain and Ireland only however. Seller doesn't show or mention a remote but I think it should come with one. I know mine came with the real nice metal remote


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## tholt

milkdudd said:


> I see there's a final addition unit up for sale here on the forum. 1200 GBP=1650 US. I can't believe nobody has snatched it up after about a full day for sale. Shipping to great Britain and Ireland only however. Seller doesn't show or mention a remote but I think it should come with one. I know mine came with the real nice metal remote


There has been a 281 for sale for weeks and weeks here, price keeps dropping, now at $1320 or something crazy like that. I'm shaking my head wondering why nobody has bought it long before now.


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## tholt

Question for those using it as a preamp -- is there a sound quality difference using RCA vs XLR out?


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## Pharmaboy

tholt said:


> Question for those using it as a preamp -- is there a sound quality difference using RCA vs XLR out?


Never tried XLR out, so can't answer this one...


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## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> Never tried XLR out, so can't answer this one...


Curious if anyone has ever listened to both the V281 and the Benchmark HPA4. Currently using the V281 with Ether 2 headphones but actually 95% of my use is a preamp in my stereo room. I'm not sure but I don't think they Benchmark has adjustable gains which (if true) right there alone gives the nod to the Vio. I do like the two sets of balanced inputs with the Benchmark which would let me keep two different dacs hooked up and powered up all the time. Only relevant if I find that different dacs sound better with different sources. Jury still out on that. Opinions anyone?


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## Pharmaboy (Nov 26, 2021)

milkdudd said:


> Curious if anyone has ever listened to both the V281 and the Benchmark HPA4. Currently using the V281 with Ether 2 headphones but actually 95% of my use is a preamp in my stereo room. I'm not sure but I don't think they Benchmark has adjustable gains which (if true) right there alone gives the nod to the Vio. I do like the two sets of balanced inputs with the Benchmark which would let me keep two different dacs hooked up and powered up all the time. Only relevant if I find that different dacs sound better with different sources. Jury still out on that. Opinions anyone?


I own (and love) the V281, as well as 6 other amps. I've heard the Benchmark HPA4 at shows, but under conditions that made it difficult to hone in on the amp vs the headphones (all were unfamiliar). So all I really have to go on are reviews and user comments for the Benchmark, which is greatly liked by many users.

The separately adjustable gain for headphones and line output make the V281 incredibly valuable to me in my desktop system with excessive gain due to higher than usual voltage output from the DAC (3 volts vs the more typical 2 volts for single-ended DACs). I also appreciate the compact dimensions of the V281, very welcome on my cramped desktop.

But I/O & design differences aside, I think the real choice here is between the V281's meaty, musical, dynamic, bassy* sound (which I love & find perfect for all genres of music) vs the Benchmark's sound, often described as cooler, more focused on detail retrieval and accuracy. Of course, the very same choice exists with headphones, DACs, all audio gear. So if you've owned and heard much audio gear, I'm guessing you're well acquainted with this sonic dichotomy and have some idea of where your preferences lay.

IMO the V281 stands at the peak of the smooth, organic, musical sound heap. I would be hard pressed to live without it.

It's a standard recommendation: if you can possibly get to a show with your own headphones and audition the Benchmark (the V281 has been discontinued), you'll at least get to hear what it sounds like & whether it suits your sonic preferences.

*That word is unfair, as it implies elevated bass. not the case with the V281. What it does is powerful, controlled, tight and punchy bass with excellent detail and accurate timbre. I have a number of amps that do bass well; the V281 is top of the list.


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## Drewligarchy

milkdudd said:


> Curious if anyone has ever listened to both the V281 and the Benchmark HPA4. Currently using the V281 with Ether 2 headphones but actually 95% of my use is a preamp in my stereo room. I'm not sure but I don't think they Benchmark has adjustable gains which (if true) right there alone gives the nod to the Vio. I do like the two sets of balanced inputs with the Benchmark which would let me keep two different dacs hooked up and powered up all the time. Only relevant if I find that different dacs sound better with different sources. Jury still out on that. Opinions anyone?



I have had a V281 for years and had the HPA-4 on home demo. The Vio sounds more liquid and wet, whereas the HPA-4 sounds dry both in the analytical sense and in the sound itself I noticed some grain. I think the HPA-4 sounds better with certain headphones that don’t match well with the V281, but it didn’t sound great to me with anything - and I think there are better options in that price range - unless the absolute lowest distortion figures are your preference. This is all, IMO.


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## jonathan c

Drewligarchy said:


> I have had a V281 for years and had the HPA-4 on home demo. The Vio sounds more liquid and wet, whereas the HPA-4 sounds dry both in the analytical sense and in the sound itself I noticed some grain. I think the HPA-4 sounds better with certain headphones that don’t match well with the V281, but it didn’t sound great to me with anything - and I think there are better options in that price range - unless the absolute lowest distortion figures are your preference. This is all, IMO.


The audio dichotomy: figures or sound? I’ll just say that I don’t listen to sine waves with notches in them…


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## Giru

milkdudd said:


> Curious if anyone has ever listened to both the V281 and the Benchmark HPA4. Currently using the V281 with Ether 2 headphones but actually 95% of my use is a preamp in my stereo room. I'm not sure but I don't think they Benchmark has adjustable gains which (if true) right there alone gives the nod to the Vio. I do like the two sets of balanced inputs with the Benchmark which would let me keep two different dacs hooked up and powered up all the time. Only relevant if I find that different dacs sound better with different sources. Jury still out on that. Opinions anyone?


Oh dear dont get me started again😅

All I can say is: Stay away from the HPA-4. Find a used V281 or get a new V590. Thank me later😎


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## PrTv (Nov 26, 2021)

I also tried the Benchmark HPA4 once with the Empyrean / HD800s and Hifiman HE1KSe and I couldn't finish a song with it as it sounded so bright and piercing (I'm extra sensitive to sibilant).

Of course, when I check... it measures superbly! ASR even gave "Strongest recommendation... It doesn't get better than this".
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-benchmark-hpa4-headphone-amp-pre.8141/

Don't know why, but gears that measure well or perfect usually don't sound the best.


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## jonathan c

PrTv said:


> I also tried the Benchmark HPA4 once with the Empyrean / HD800s and Hifiman HE1KSe and I couldn't finish a song with it as it sounded so bright and piercing (I'm extra sensitive to sibilant).
> 
> Of course, when I check... it measures superbly! ASR even gave "Strongest recommendation... It doesn't get better than this".
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-benchmark-hpa4-headphone-amp-pre.8141/
> ...


Jason Stoddard of Schiit Audio has stated that he could design a headphone amplifier with zero distortion but that “it would sound terrible” (words of JS).


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## PrTv

jonathan c said:


> Jason Stoddard of Schiit Audio has stated that he could design a headphone amplifier with zero distortion but that “it would sound terrible” (words of JS).


Irony, isn't it? In general sense, things that measure well should also perform well technically, but when it comes to audio(phile), many things don't seem to work as expected. This is also true with DACs and many headphones I've tried. Maybe it's the way we perceive sound?


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## jonathan c

PrTv said:


> Irony, isn't it? In general sense, things that measure well should also perform well technically, but when it comes to audio(phile), many things don't seem to work as expected. This is also true with DACs and many headphones I've tried. Maybe it's the way we perceive sound?


The old adage in audio: “if a component sounds good but measures poorly, the wrong thing is being measured.”


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## milkdudd

jonathan c said:


> The old adage in audio: “if a component sounds good but measures poorly, the wrong thing is being measured.”


Well I certainly appreciate all of the responses. I knew I could count on you guys as always. What got me even discussing this was seeing a pre-owned Benchmark for sale on another forum. I think a couple of you didn't notice that I already have the V281 FE which I am extremely fond of. I knew the HPA4 would sell quickly and it already has sold when I checked back. A couple of hours after the original post I started thinking, what am I thinking here? No matter how good the Benchmark is, there's no way I could ever sell my V281. I started thinking what do I do then, put it on a shelf? That would be ridiculous, it's far too good for that. All of your learned opinions have reinforced to me that I've had the right headphone amp/preamp in the Violectric all along. Many thanks to all


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## fiiom11pro

i got both. cant choose which is better but v281 is slightly on the warmer side with good slam on the bass section while hpa4 are more linear, transparent. I didn't sell my v281 as I love it dearly. the only way to go is to go nimbus etc but v281 is still one of the best amps ever made period.


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## Drewligarchy

PrTv said:


> Irony, isn't it? In general sense, things that measure well should also perform well technically, but when it comes to audio(phile), many things don't seem to work as expected. This is also true with DACs and many headphones I've tried. Maybe it's the way we perceive sound?



I agree. You want some type of pleasing distortion profile. Whatever that is that you like. It’s almost like the complete absence of distortion sounds artificial. I also thing there is something to feedback (or feed forward in this case) smearing transients. The thing I liked about the benchmark was you could listen as low or loud as you want and it sounded exactly the same, and to me - wasn’t fatiguing at all - probably because of absolutely no distortion. That doesn’t matter much if you don’t like the sound to begin with.


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## jonathan c

One more _thought_ on the audio issue of specifications vs sound:  Specifications are, to me, descriptors of how a component will function _electrically._


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## Drewligarchy

One more point. A lot of people like the Benchmark, and it’s gonna depend on your headphones as well. I didn’t like the sound, but that doesn’t mean you won’t. Benchmark has a 30 day trial which I very much appreciate. You can look for other people opinions directionally regarding what sound you are looking for - but as always - I’d recommend demoing if you can - to see what you like. At the very least you’ll learn something about your preferences, I have with both gear I liked and gear I didn’t. Also, you could try one of the cheap THX amps to see if you like that flavor.


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## project86

Totally agree with the above suggestion - try out the Drop THX AAA 789 to get a huge portion of the Benchmark experience for a far lower price. It's not quite as good, but close enough to tell you whether you will enjoy that type of signature or not. 

For me, I find that I quite like the 789 for what it is, but do not think the Benchmark is worth the significant increase in price. The 789 is great to have in an arsenal of several different amps for variety, though I personally wouldn't want it to be my _only_ option.


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## Pharmaboy (Nov 27, 2021)

PrTv said:


> Irony, isn't it? In general sense, things that measure well should also perform well technically, but when it comes to audio(phile), many things don't seem to work as expected. This is also true with DACs and many headphones I've tried. Maybe it's the way we perceive sound?


IMHO the idea our currently available audio measurements actually measure the sound of music is pure confirmation bias.

It's more likely any measurements that capture the subtle characteristics of music that please human ears don't yet exist.

Reality reminder:

In the early 1980s the first CD players came out and CD audio was hawked under Philips' ludicrous slogan, "Pure, perfect sound--forever."
In truth, early players & discs sounded terrible, most of all when played on big, well-designed 2-channel systems with above average resolution (I had one such). Those early CD vs LP contests were painful to listen to.
Anyone with the nerve to state the obvious ("CDs sound like s**t') was drummed out of the corps by the measurement crowd's big gotcha, "Bits are bits."
Only years later was jitter measured & correlated to bad digital sound. Decades of tech development have largely removed jitter from the equation & digital sound has improved. But the haunting thought remains that _any timing irregularities anywhere in the digital chain_ can corrupt digital sound--and current jitter reduction technologies might not actually erase jitter, just greatly reduce it.
Plus jitter is only one of the factors that can degrade a digital chain...
The X-Files famously stated, "The truth is out there." The important part in that is "out there" -- as in "not here, not yet."


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## Pharmaboy

Drewligarchy said:


> One more point. A lot of people like the Benchmark, and it’s gonna depend on your headphones as well. I didn’t like the sound, but that doesn’t mean you won’t. Benchmark has a 30 day trial which I very much appreciate. You can look for other people opinions directionally regarding what sound you are looking for - but as always - I’d recommend demoing if you can - to see what you like. At the very least you’ll learn something about your preferences, I have with both gear I liked and gear I didn’t. Also, you could try one of the cheap THX amps to see if you like that flavor.


Let's not forget that the big Benchmark amp is physically beautiful. I've seen & heard them at shows. Each time I badly want them to sound as good as they look...


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## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> IMHO the idea our currently available audio measurements actually measure the sound of music is pure confirmation bias.
> 
> It's more likely any measurements that capture the subtle characteristics of music that please human ears don't yet exist.
> 
> ...


I'm sure all of this makes perfect sense and I'm think I'm absorbing most of it. However I watched some three stooges episodes only a few hours before reading this, so it is a bit of a transition


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## jonathan c

milkdudd said:


> I'm sure all of this makes perfect sense and I'm think I'm absorbing most of it. However I watched some three stooges episodes only a few hours before reading this, so it is a bit of a transition


I think of digital, sometimes, as akin to: Bullwinkle pulling everything but a rabbit out of the hat whereupon Rocky says “that trick never works”.


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## Pharmaboy

jonathan c said:


> I think of digital, sometimes, as akin to: Bullwinkle pulling everything but a rabbit out of the hat whereupon Rocky says “that trick never works”.


Brilliant!

(asking for a friend) So Road Runner would be the digital signal about to crash into a brickwall output filter?


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## jonathan c

Pharmaboy said:


> Brilliant!
> 
> (asking for a friend) So Road Runner would be the digital signal about to crash into a brickwall output filter?


And Wil E. Coyote would be the listener about to have a sigma-delta anvil land on him off a cliff…


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## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> Brilliant!
> 
> (asking for a friend) So Road Runner would be the digital signal about to crash into a brickwall output filter?


So that's what the term brickwalled means. It's all starting to make sense now


----------



## Giru

project86 said:


> Totally agree with the above suggestion - try out the Drop THX AAA 789 to get a huge portion of the Benchmark experience for a far lower price. It's not quite as good, but close enough to tell you whether you will enjoy that type of signature or not.
> 
> For me, I find that I quite like the 789 for what it is, but do not think the Benchmark is worth the significant increase in price. The 789 is great to have in an arsenal of several different amps for variety, though I personally wouldn't want it to be my _only_ option.


Completely agree to this. I'll say one more time: THX AAA is pure hype, Period.

Also what many don't know (and the so called "reviewers" don't point out) is that the HPA-4 does not have a true balanced output. Infact I'm not sure if any of the THX amps have a true voltage balanced output. Benchmark discloses the same in their article on "busting audio myths". If you're looking for some chuckles you can read the article here:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better

Needless to say that most of the content here is BS. What intrigues me though is that how well the marketing team at Benchmark works with these "reviewers" in keeping this fact hidden in plain sight. Check out this review on ASR: 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-benchmark-hpa4-headphone-amp-pre.8141/

See how there is no clear mention of the fact that the HPA4 is not a true balanced amp at all? Just "the TRS is the same as XLR" and thats it. For a site that focuses on objectivity over subjective opinions, this raises eyebrows. The plot thickens when you actually read the V281 review on the same site:


https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...surements-of-violectric-hpa-v281-hp-amp.9331/

Again, no points for guessing which review seems sponsored. Although the 281 comes recommended as well, there was nothing the reviewer could do to put it down (although his posse does try. Read the whole thread); speaking volumes on how good the 281 actually is: both on paper and in real life.

What I'm emphasizing here is that the HPA4 (much like it's "THX AAA" bretheren) is just overhyped stuff. Not saying that the measurements are not good but I don't care if the same does not translate to performance.


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## Fegefeuer

Fun fact. Fried played around with THX too but didn't like the sound.


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## Shane D (Dec 13, 2021)

I also tried THX out a while ago. It was the SMSL THX SP200. Super clean sounding, but I just found it kind of boring.

After that I went to a Liquid Platinum which I found to be a lot more fun. Then I took the advice of someone I trusted and bought a used Violectric V220. It is essentially a stripped down V281 (less power and no balanced out). It formed a perfect yin and yang with the LP. High gain via  balanced out vs lower impedance headphones via SE out. Both amps had their strengths.

Then I ended up buying a used iFi Pro iCAN. Even used, it was most expensive purchase of any headfi gear ever, for me. Tons of power and I love the features (especially bass boost!), but it didn't blow me away at first. But now months later, I am thinking about slimming the collection down. I just shipped out a Little Dot MKIII that I wasn't even using.

I think the iFi can do practically anything the LP can, unless you want to spend a ton on different tubes.

But the V220 adds warmth to my Grado's and others that nothing else can. I hate the huge, long box, but that sound is something else. It really does add something special.

I think I could live just fine with my iFi as long as I had my V220 in the system too.


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## PrTv (Dec 14, 2021)

Has anybody tried MIT Vero 50EX?

I used to think V281 was among the best headphone amplifiers, until I had a chance to home demo the MIT Vero 50EX, Battery Powered amplifier. This amp has very simple circuitry and only accepts RCA input, also, it has quite audible noise floor (more like high-bias). Tried the low gain setting but the background noise was still audible faintly even with my 300Ohm VC.

That background noise aside (not audible when music was played), with only the RCA input, all my headphones (Utopia+Dana Ref / VC+SR cable / Empyrean+Lavri Grand) sounded better with the Vero, comparing with the V281 with balance connection (with very good XLR cable). This shocked me a bit as I went a great length with wall plug / isolation transformer / power cable and high end audio grade fuses... but all these mean nothing when comparison was made against the Vero with its mere battery.

With the Vero, vocal/mid is better (fuller with more dynamic). I can hear more minute details and head-stage seemed a bit wider. Mid bass also seems a tad better too.


----------



## PrTv

Sorry for double post... but the Vero 50Ex made me itch to upgrade... 

How about Luxman P-750u Vs V281? I know the Luxman is more expensive (and should be better), but I'd like to hear from those of you who tried them both. How is the Luxman comparing with the 281? Is it warmer or more analytical? Given my 3 main headphones in sig, would it be a better match comparing with the V281?


----------



## project86

That MIT amp is weird. I've heard it twice in the past few years - once sounded surprisingly great, the other time sounded terrible. Neither was in my own system though so hard to draw any conclusions. I did note the background noise and found it distracting - a deal breaker for me, especially when battery operation should lead to an inky black background in theory.

A friend of a friend told me the internal design was extremely simplistic for the price, basically a beefed up version of the old DIY CMOY amp. Not sure what to make of that and I never verified it myself so who knows. It does seem quite powerful and capable of driving most any headphones though. Still, not really my cup of tea.

The Luxman is another that I've heard in unfamiliar systems but never spent enough time with to really nail it down. In my limited experience it seemed dark and pretty rich, which is the typical Luxman sound for the most part. I liked what I heard but also thought it was overpriced, which again is not uncommon for Luxman (at new pricing). I do like their stuff, have owned a few CD players and amps and find them very enjoyable. I do think they can be a good value on the used market (particularly the older stuff which is beautifully warm and smooth).


----------



## Pharmaboy

"dark and rich" is where I live. I'd be scuffling around in search of a gently used Luxman if not for its dimensions, way too big for my desktop system. 

So I'm "making do" with the V281 (not exactly a hardship!)...


----------



## project86

Haha yes their signature is very enjoyable, and pretty easy to pair with other brands/signatures as it doesn't go extreme with the coloration. 

It certainly is big/bulky/heavy stuff though. Well made, but somewhat polarizing looks (I love it but can see why some wouldn't).


----------



## Pharmaboy

project86 said:


> Haha yes their signature is very enjoyable, and pretty easy to pair with other brands/signatures as it doesn't go extreme with the coloration.
> 
> It certainly is big/bulky/heavy stuff though. Well made, but somewhat polarizing looks (I love it but can see why some wouldn't).


Actually, I find Japanese high-end audio (different brands) to be strikingly handsome. Years ago I had a big Denon DD turntable with high-gloss mahogany base that was a knockout; then there are those terrific-looking Onkyo power amplifiers with the big meters on front. So many examples.


----------



## Delta9K

Pharmaboy said:


> "dark and rich" is where I live. I'd be scuffling around in search of a gently used Luxman if not for its dimensions, way too big for my desktop system.
> 
> So I'm "making do" with the V281 (not exactly a hardship!)...


Yeah, making do... you're breaking my heart, lol

Many a fond memory of my V281. That Industrial look is rather sexy. It looks like it belongs in a naval vessel war room - especially when mated up with a Soekris DAC. Also, that sound signature...


----------



## PrTv (Dec 16, 2021)

project86 said:


> That MIT amp is weird. I've heard it twice in the past few years - once sounded surprisingly great, the other time sounded terrible. Neither was in my own system though so hard to draw any conclusions. I did note the background noise and found it distracting - a deal breaker for me, especially when battery operation should lead to an inky black background in theory.
> 
> A friend of a friend told me the internal design was extremely simplistic for the price, basically a beefed up version of the old DIY CMOY amp. Not sure what to make of that and I never verified it myself so who knows. It does seem quite powerful and capable of driving most any headphones though. Still, not really my cup of tea.
> 
> The Luxman is another that I've heard in unfamiliar systems but never spent enough time with to really nail it down. In my limited experience it seemed dark and pretty rich, which is the typical Luxman sound for the most part. I liked what I heard but also thought it was overpriced, which again is not uncommon for Luxman (at new pricing). I do like their stuff, have owned a few CD players and amps and find them very enjoyable. I do think they can be a good value on the used market (particularly the older stuff which is beautifully warm and smooth).


Yes... it looks so empty inside. Maybe the argument that it's a beef up CMOY may have some ground.


Despite the look, the sound is very good in my setup, with my gears.

I did further search and found that Luxman stopped selling the P-750u a while ago, and currently only P-750u MKII is available only in Japan.

I really want to have the Luxman, but with the current state, even if I can find once (used/from Japan), it's 110V (where I live it's 220), so I also have to get a good quality step down transformer. A good quality one for audiophile use costs around 900$.


----------



## PrTv

Anyone hear the V281 with the LCD5?

Is this pairing on the warmer or brighter side?


----------



## TheMiddleSky

PrTv said:


> Anyone hear the V281 with the LCD5?
> 
> Is this pairing on the warmer or brighter side?



definitely not bright for me, but midrange is kind of forward (lcd-5 character)


----------



## Pharmaboy

PrTv said:


> Anyone hear the V281 with the LCD5?
> 
> Is this pairing on the warmer or brighter side?


Can't help you with the LCD 5. 

I did own a vintage pre-fazor LCD-2.1, also a pre-fazor early LCD-3. Both really lit up on the V281, as do my 2 current planars, the Final D8000 and ZMF Ori. 

The V281 is one of those solid state amps that suits nearly every headphone I throw at it. I've never heard any headphone, planar or dynamic, sound less than its best on this amp.


----------



## fiiom11pro

I don't have lcd5 but almost all uf not ALL sounds great on v281. Even if you visit hiend hp forums, they are always in use.


----------



## PrTv

Thanks, TheMiddleSky, Pharmaboy, fiiom11pro.

Yesterday I did have a chance to listen to the LCD-5 with Woo WA33 in store. The demo V281 was dead and the store has not yet replaced it, so I couldn't listen to this pair.

The source is only Earmen Toretto, into WA33's RCA input. This is less than ideal, but even with this inferior source, I liked what I heard. LCD-5 seems to have great dynamic and micro detail (similar feeling I had with my Utopia with V281). I feel that the LCD-5 is "less bright" than my Utopia (with Lazuli Ref). Songs that are prone to sibilant seemed to be tamer... but then again... I couldn't tell for sure since this is with a very expensive amp. Will bring in the V281 to pair with the LCD5 and will also bring along my Utopia to do a proper comparison.

If the LCD-5 performs at the same level with my V281, I think I can get rid of my Utopia + ZMF VC and just own the LCD-5 along with the Empy (non Elite).


----------



## Ichos

The King is dead - Long live the King!


----------



## Fegefeuer

V226=official V280 successor + Chronos DAC


----------



## Arniesb

Fegefeuer said:


> V226=official V280 successor + Chronos DAC


I thought V340 is successor...


----------



## Fegefeuer

no, 340 is more like a V280 Super or V280++ but none of them sound like it anyway.


----------



## Ichos

The V226 is the sweet spot in Vioelectric line of products.
Tons of great performance for the least money.
The included DAC is a free bonus, for the lazy or the minimalist or the broke after buying it!!!


----------



## Shane D

Ichos said:


> The King is dead - Long live the King!


Are you using it? I see the power specs are about the same as my V220. Are these warmer like the old style (V220/V281)?


----------



## Ichos (Jan 14, 2022)

Shane D said:


> Are you using it? I see the power specs are about the same as my V220. Are these warmer like the old style (V220/V281)?


It is the good old tubey like V280 but with slightly enhanced technicalities, more controlled, expansive, better detail and clarity.
Can't touch the V550 technicalities but it is more musical. (yes I said it!)
Best overall value SS amp I have tested up to 2K.
I am listening now with a nos DAC - magic!


----------



## Fegefeuer

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/violectric-dha-v226.960929/


----------



## Empyah (Jan 14, 2022)

The v226 is pure joy. With my modded 6XX, modded HE500 or LCD2.1 pre fazor, what ever I throw at it it rewards me with musical bliss.


----------



## Shane D

Trivia question. I have the V220 which shares many features with the V281. If I use a pre-out to power a small tube amp, can I then use my Vio to control the volume on the tube amp?

Thanks.


----------



## Delta9K (Jan 15, 2022)

@Shane D  The v220 can be set to have fixed output level (mirrored from the input) or variable output level from the volume control.
It is software selectable for using Pre-Post fader (fixed - variable) You should see the details for doing that on @ page 22 of the manual.
Here's a link to the manual < https://manualzz.com/doc/8091573/violectric-audio-hpa-v220 >


----------



## Pharmaboy

Shane D said:


> Trivia question. I have the V220 which shares many features with the V281. If I use a pre-out to power a small tube amp, can I then use my Vio to control the volume on the tube amp?
> 
> Thanks.


I'm reasonably sure your V220 is the single-ended output brother/design of the V281--in the same case with the same I/O & connectivity. 

Assuming that's true, there's no doubt your V220 can be used as a preamp out. I believe you just hit the "Line" button on the vertical array of buttons on left/front of amp.


----------



## Shane D (Jan 15, 2022)

Delta9K said:


> @Shane D  The v220 can be set to have fixed output level (mirrored from the input) or variable output level from the volume control.
> It is software selectable for using Pre-Post fader (fixed - variable) You should see the details for doing that on @ page 22 of the manual.
> Here's a link to the manual < https://manualzz.com/doc/8091573/violectric-audio-hpa-v220 >


I had to read that over several times, but I think I have it now. Thanks! I do have the manual in a drawer somewhere. Seems pretty straight forward.
Press Line button. Then hold button for 2 seconds until it starts flashing. XLR is pre-fader and DIG is post fader, which is the one I want.
Now I really want to hit the buy button that MT-604. 
I can also try it off the iFi and see if there is any notable difference. I LOVE these forums!!


----------



## Godwyn88

New owner of V281 FE (with the internal dac XMOS).  Simply astonishing, I'm stunned. 

Very good pairing with Hifiman Arya Stealth Magnets, the warm tonality of the amp fits very good with neutrality of the Hifiman.


----------



## Godwyn88

In your opinion guys, waht would be a perfect pairing for a V281 in terms of DAC? 

Price quality, obviously.  

Something extremely neutral, because i like the warm tonaly of the amp. Benchmark DAC3? RME Pro? Chord Hugo 2? 

Many thanks guys


----------



## Empyah

Godwyn88 said:


> In your opinion guys, waht would be a perfect pairing for a V281 in terms of DAC?
> 
> Price quality, obviously.
> 
> ...


Gungnir A2 + V281 was one of the best combos I ever heard (with an HE1000).


----------



## Fegefeuer

Agree, had the same combo once


----------



## Delta9K

Godwyn88 said:


> In your opinion guys, waht would be a perfect pairing for a V281 in terms of DAC?


I really enjoyed the Soekris dac1541 with the v281.


----------



## Ichos

I have thoroughly enjoyed the V280 with the Gugnir multibit OG.


----------



## Pinkfloyd0

I am using it with a Calyx Femto DAC. I compared it to some other dacs and consider it better (more refined). Other dac's I use(d) are Violectric V800, NAD M51, Antelope audio Zodiac gold and platinum. Nice combination!


----------



## elisiX

Godwyn88 said:


> In your opinion guys, waht would be a perfect pairing for a V281 in terms of DAC?
> 
> Price quality, obviously.
> 
> ...


Been running the V281 with the RME ADI-2 for well over a year now and I can't really fault it.

I've considered selling both and moving to TT2 with a view that I will/might get an increase in DAC performance, but the V281 as an AMP is just too good.

TT2 + V281 maybe...


----------



## fiiom11pro

Godwyn88 said:


> In your opinion guys, waht would be a perfect pairing for a V281 in terms of DAC?
> 
> Price quality, obviously.
> 
> ...



well probably perfect pairing would be its own vio dac like v850. imho


----------



## Empyah (Jan 27, 2022)

elisiX said:


> Been running the V281 with the RME ADI-2 for well over a year now and I can't really fault it.
> 
> I've considered selling both and moving to TT2 with a view that I will/might get an increase in DAC performance, but the V281 as an AMP is just too good.
> 
> TT2 + V281 maybe...


Best thing since sliced bread I have heard with the V281 was a Gungnir A2, Yggdrasil GS should be even more epico (judging by how well it pairs with my V226).


----------



## Godwyn88

Anyone with Benchmark DAC3 or Chord Qutest? 

Because I don't have so much space and I need something as small as possible. (and well, I need also to please my wife, who can't stand my hifi products )


----------



## jonathan c

Empyah said:


> Best thing since sliced bread I have heard with the V281 was a Gungnir A2, Yggdrasil GS should be even more epico (judging by how well it pairs with my V226).


What does sliced bread sound like?…🤔


----------



## Empyah (Jan 29, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> What does sliced bread sound like?…🤔


It doesn't, it just is... *sliced*.


----------



## Fegefeuer

simply gooooood


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Godwyn88 said:


> Anyone with Benchmark DAC3 or Chord Qutest?
> 
> Because I don't have so much space and I need something as small as possible. (and well, I need also to please my wife, who can't stand my hifi products )


RME is as small as it gets. I have not heard the Benchmark but the Benchmark is supposed to be colder than the Brooklyn, and the RME is more musical than my Brooklyn.


----------



## Pharmaboy

jonathan c said:


> What does sliced bread sound like?…🤔


All the notes are tall, wide, with equal/narrow width. They get stale if left out too long.


----------



## jonathan c

Pharmaboy said:


> All the notes are tall, wide, with equal/narrow width. They get stale if left out too long.


That could be description by analogy of sigma-delta DAC sound…🙁…with NOS / R2R, aroma, taste and texture come to the fore…


----------



## Godwyn88

Anyone tried the Violectric V281 with IEM? I'm interested especially with sensitive IEM like Campfire Audio. 

Which cable did you use? Balanced or unbalanced? 

Thanks guys


----------



## gimmeheadroom

<DON'T DO IT, BUDDY>


----------



## Godwyn88

Aahahah why?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Godwyn88 said:


> Aahahah why?


Too much power, especially balanced. It seems unlikely you could control the volume enough with IEMs. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't try it.


----------



## Godwyn88

Thanks man


----------



## Fegefeuer

Try it with pregain@-12db


----------



## masabueno (Jan 30, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Too much power, especially balanced. It seems unlikely you could control the volume enough with IEMs. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't try it.



The V281 does support IEMs.



Godwyn88 said:


> Anyone tried the Violectric V281 with IEM? I'm interested especially with sensitive IEM like Campfire Audio.



Just starting at -12dB, SE outputs (or balanced, and that's ok).


----------



## gimmeheadroom

A lot of guys run -12 dB for headphones like HD 600. I hope you guys are not busting his chops!


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> Too much power, especially balanced. It seems unlikely you could control the volume enough with IEMs. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't try it.


One of the many things I love about this amp is its HUGE gain adjustment capabilities--separate +/- (up to) 14 dB adjustments for headphone outputs (via dipswitches on the back panel) and line-out (internal dipswitches).

I know exactly nothing about IEMs. But it seems to me that the real test of the V281 vs IEMs is with the HP output dialed down 12-14 dB. 

Note that this gain adjustability will be even more effective if one's DAC is single-ended (balanced DACs often output >4 volts to the amp/preamp, which is very high)--and the DAC isn't outputting much above the nominal 2.0 volt standard for S.E. line outputs from DACs.

I still know exactly nothing about IEMS...but just had to get that off my chest.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> One of the many things I love about this amp is its HUGE gain adjustment capabilities--separate +/- (up to) 14 dB adjustments for headphone outputs (via dipswitches on the back panel) and line-out (internal dipswitches).
> 
> I know exactly nothing about IEMs. But it seems to me that the real test of the V281 vs IEMs is with the HP output dialed down 12-14 dB.
> 
> ...


I remember we had a discussion about what we use for settings. You said you use -12 dB for your Ori and I said I use the same thing for my Sennheiser 600s and 800s. I think a few other guys chimed in and said they also run -12 dB.

So it seems hard to believe anybody could get a range of volume with any IEMs and I certainly wouldn't want anybody to burn up his gear or damage his hearing. I guess if you have to try it, you should try it with a throw-away pair of IEMs and the volume knob 1 click from the bottom, and don't put them in your ears until you're in the middle of a song and then do it slowly. 

I know several people who became deaf from various noise sources and it's terrible, especially for audio guys. So, just be careful. The V280/281 is already a bomb with headphones. It's too easy for somebody to twist knobs in both places or miss some detail of the setup.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Jan 30, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I remember we had a discussion about what we use for settings. You said you use -12 dB for your Ori and I said I use the same thing for my Sennheiser 600s and 800s. I think a few other guys chimed in and said they also run -12 dB.
> 
> So it seems hard to believe anybody could get a range of volume with any IEMs and I certainly wouldn't want anybody to burn up his gear or damage his hearing. I guess if you have to try it, you should try it with a throw-away pair of IEMs and the volume knob 1 click from the bottom, and don't put them in your ears until you're in the middle of a song and then do it slowly.
> 
> I know several people who became deaf from various noise sources and it's terrible, especially for audio guys. So, just be careful. The V280/281 is already a bomb with headphones. It's too easy for somebody to twist knobs in both places or miss some detail of the setup.


It's been a long time since I had a DAC that output 2.0 volts or less. If I did, I wouldn't have to reduce the gain on the V281 to 12 dB (you remembered correctly).

My current DAC in the main system, for which the V281 is the main preamp/headphone amp, outputs 3.0 volts (MHDT Labs Orchid). That 50% bump over the 2.0 nominal voltage accounts for most of my gain reduction on the V281.* Perceived loudness and +/- dB are not directly/linearly related, but I suspect if I had a DAC that output 2.0 volts, I'd have the gain on the V281 set between -2 to -4 dB. Just a guess.

BTW, I will soon get the chance to test this, albeit imprecisely. I'm currently burning in a new NOS DAC that has a volume control. Just like my Orchid, it has 2 x RCA outputs and thus can slot right into my main system in place of the Orchid. I can set the output level by hand on the volume pot--which means I can certainly lower it below the Orchid's 3.0 volts output. The only problem is there is no reading of output voltage on this DAC (not sure it's available on any DAC), so it will all be guesswork. But I'll play around with it anyway.

*This also illustrates why I could never use a balanced DAC here (cabling & compatibility issues aside). Many balanced DACs will output ~2.2 volts single-ended and ~4.4 volts balanced. I don't even have to try such a DAC to know that 4.4 volts output would blow up the already high gain in my desktop system--far exceeding the V281's capacity for downwards gain adjustment. The system would be loud even at the minimum setting of the V281's 128-stepped pot &  there'd be no real adjustment range there unless I wanted to blow out my ears/speakers/headphones in the process.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> It's been a long time since I had a DAC that output 2.0 volts or less. If I did, I wouldn't have to reduce the gain on the V281 to 12 dB (you remembered correctly).


I'm running mine V280 off my Brooklyn DAC+ and I had to back off from 0 dB or I didn't have enough range on my Sennies.



Pharmaboy said:


> My current DAC in the main system, for which the V281 is the main preamp/headphone amp, outputs 3.0 volts (MHDT Labs Orchid). That 50% bump over the 2.0 nominal voltage accounts for most of my gain reduction on the V281.* Perceived loudness and +/- dB are not directly/linearly related, but I suspect if I had a DAC that output 2.0 volts, I'd have the gain on the V281 set between -2 to -4 dB. Just a guess.


I'll take that money- at stake is a cold Czech beer 



Pharmaboy said:


> BTW, I will soon get the chance to test this, albeit imprecisely. I'm currently burning in a new NOS DAC that has a volume control. Just like my Orchid, it has 2 x RCA outputs and thus can slot right into my main system in place of the Orchid. I can set the output level by hand on the volume pot--which means I can certainly lower it below the Orchid's 3.0 volts output. The only problem is there is no reading of output voltage on this DAC (not sure it's available on any DAC), so it will all be guesswork. But I'll play around with it anyway.
> 
> *This also illustrates why I could never use a balanced DAC here (cabling & compatibility issues aside). Many balanced DACs will output ~2.2 volts single-ended and ~4.4 volts balanced. I don't even have to try such a DAC to know that 4.4 volts output would blow up the already high gain in my desktop system--far exceeding the V281's capacity for downwards gain adjustment. The system would be loud even at the minimum setting of the V281's 128-stepped pot &  there'd be no real adjustment range there unless I wanted to blow out my ears/speakers/headphones in the process.


Audio-gd gear also runs hotter than normal. I believe you have a few of his pieces also.


----------



## hikaru12

Hey guys - what's the closest to the V281 in terms of bass impact and tonality that's still in production? It would be getting paired with a Yggy LiM if anyone is wondering.


----------



## Ichos

hikaru12 said:


> Hey guys - what's the closest to the V281 in terms of bass impact and tonality that's still in production? It would be getting paired with a Yggy LiM if anyone is wondering.


€?


----------



## hikaru12

Ichos said:


> €?


$2k-$3k max is my budget.


----------



## Ichos

hikaru12 said:


> $2k-$3k max is my budget.


If you need to stay balanced then the V550 is the obvious choice.
More linear than the 281, better technicalities, same organic house sound, great dynamic swings and bass impact.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Definitely V550.

message @ArthurPower if he still has that discount unit.


----------



## hikaru12

From initial reviews folks are saying the 550 sounds a bit more neutral? Does that mean the bass slam isn't as good as the 281?


----------



## Fegefeuer

It's a tradeoff - still slammy, just more controlled and textured than the V281's. With an Yggdrasil bass would be my smallest concern. From what I read about the LIM gaining precision, texture and clarity over the A2 while still having a good amount of that Moffat Bass I'd definitely built on top of it and use the superior technical foundation of the V5XX line to reap the benefits.


----------



## hikaru12

Fegefeuer said:


> It's a tradeoff - still slammy, just more controlled and textured than the V281's. With an Yggdrasil bass would be my smallest concern. From what I read about the LIM gaining precision, texture and clarity over the A2 while still having a good amount of that Moffat Bass I'd definitely built on top of it and use the superior technical foundation of the V5XX line to reap the benefits.


Fair enough I’m just afraid that because the LiM is more balanced and has less bass slam than the OG than pairing it with a more neutral amp would cause it to start sounding boring and less dynamic. I’m contemplating adding a Lokius to the mix to ensure that if I do need to add a little bit of a bass shelf I don’t have to sacrifice on the amp to do so.


----------



## Empyah

hikaru12 said:


> Hey guys - what's the closest to the V281 in terms of bass impact and tonality that's still in production? It would be getting paired with a Yggy LiM if anyone is wondering.



Definitely the V226, I would even say it is more musical, tubelike and euphonic, has a bigger stage, better center image, better blackground, is more detailed through all registers and is a good bit closer to neutral than the V281 (which I like alot). It has a good integrated DAC(Chronos) and fits on every desktop with its much smaller footprint.
Since it even has almost as much power as the 281 I would say this is endgame material with something like a Bifrost 2 or a Soeakris 2541 together with an Arya, Clear, LCD-X 2021 for example, and just enjoy the music and call it a day.


----------



## hikaru12

Empyah said:


> Definitely the V226, I would even say it is more musical, tubelike and euphonic, has a bigger stage, better center image, better blackground, is more detailed through all registers and is a good bit closer to neutral than the V281 (which I like alot). It has a good integrated DAC(Chronos) and fits on every desktop with its much smaller footprint.
> Since it even has almost as much power as the 281 I would say this is endgame material with something like a Bifrost 2 or a Soeakris 2541 together with an Arya, Clear, LCD-X 2021 for example, and just enjoy the music and call it a day.


How do you like the bass on it? Are the dynamics similar to the 281? Doesn’t hurt that it’s cheaper


----------



## Empyah (Feb 3, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> Fair enough I’m just afraid that because the LiM is more balanced and has less bass slam than the OG than pairing it with a more neutral amp would cause it to start sounding boring and less dynamic. I’m contemplating adding a Lokius to the mix to ensure that if I do need to add a little bit of a bass shelf I don’t have to sacrifice on the amp to do so.


Nothing about that combo would sound boring and less dynamic. The 550 ist still a Violectric and the LiM is defintiely still an Yggdrasil.


----------



## Empyah (Feb 3, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> How do you like the bass on it? Are the dynamics similar to the 281? Doesn’t hurt that it’s cheaper



Dynamics are at least as good or better (I remember how Mountains from Interstellar almost blasted of my temple on the V281 with my LCD2 - this one repeats that easily on a much harder to drive HE500). Bass is as present but better defined.
I find everything about this amp to be better than the V281 as good as it may have been. An improvement on almost all fronts.
Fried has outdone himself with this one. As I stated earlier, to this amp is instant joy(to me) with everything I threw at it so far, and gets even better with a better DAC.


----------



## Ichos

I have reviewed the 550 and now I am in the process of reviewing the 226.
Yes it is great and a touch more warm than the 550 but oh boy the 550 is end game stuff.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Feb 3, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> $2k-$3k max is my budget.


Do you need a balanced amp? Or would S.E. do?

Just based on descriptions of its sound, I'm very interested in the Kinki Studio THR-1 amp. If this thing had a remote control, I'd already own one (held in abeyance should my V281 ever tank). The cost is downright reasonable.

Below are links to the product page and a review:

https://www.kinki-studio.com/thr-1

https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/kinki-studio-vision-thr-1-review-a-gentle-giant/

It has a few operational issues (the only preamp output is XLR; gain is rather high), but I could work around those. It would even fit my cramped desktop (few really good amps can).


----------



## Ichos

Pharmaboy said:


> Do you need a balanced amp? Or would S.E. do?
> 
> Just based on descriptions of its sound, I'm very interested in the Kinki Studio THR-1 amp. If this thing had a remote control, I'd already own one (held in abeyance should my V281 ever tank). The cost is downright reasonable.
> 
> ...


I have one that I bought at a discounted price for a review but I haven't unpacked yet, very busy in the past three months...


----------



## Empyah (Feb 3, 2022)

Ichos said:


> I have reviewed the 550 and now I am in the process of reviewing the 226.
> Yes it is great and a touch more warm than the 550 but oh boy the 550 is end game stuff.


Yeah, by that analogy I would call the V226 "early end game" being definitely high-end but still not too expensive and more than "good enough",
ie. way above midfi in all aspects and supremely musical.
Sometimes I wish I would have just paired one with a BF2 and Arya stealth and finally stopped to smell the flowers.


----------



## hikaru12

Empyah said:


> Yeah, by that analogy I would call the V226 "early end game" being defintiely high-end but still not too expensive and more than "good enough",
> ie. way above midfi in all aspects and supremely musical.
> Sometimes I wish I would have just paired one with a BF2 and Arya stealth and finally stopped to smell the flowers.


I actually use cheaper gear myself to form a baseline so that when I get the more expensive stuff I can see whether it’s better by inches or miles. Sometimes in this hobby you’re paying a fortune for very little improvement and I’m not one of those folks who likes to spend a bunch extra to get something that’s maybe 5% better than cheaper alternatives. I’ll definitely be checking out the 226.


----------



## Ichos

Exactly, the V226 is early end game, a great taste of the Violectric sound and one of the best solid state amplifiers.
Treat the DAC as a bonus.


----------



## Shane D

Shane D said:


> I had to read that over several times, but I think I have it now. Thanks! I do have the manual in a drawer somewhere. Seems pretty straight forward.
> Press Line button. Then hold button for 2 seconds until it starts flashing. XLR is pre-fader and DIG is post fader, which is the one I want.
> Now I really want to hit the buy button that MT-604.
> I can also try it off the iFi and see if there is any notable difference. I LOVE these forums!!


I wanted to follow up my own post here. Today was my first day using the V220 as a pre-amp. Or any pre-amp for that matter.
It is working great!

I just had to double check the instructions. I understood the line-out button and setting fixed or variable output. But then I had to open the case and set line out gain via jumpers. I set it at -12Db's. I could use -6Db's, but I don't think it would get the wide rangs of volume that i have now.

Today was Laptop to Schiit Bifrost 2 to Schiit Loki EQ to V220 and line out to XDuoo MT-602. I set the 602 at 12:00 and run the V220 at about the same. With all three pieces in the chain, the Grado GH2's sound Very full and bassy. It was a great day!


----------



## milkdudd

Up until a few months ago I thought the V281 would be my end game as a headphone amp and even more importantly as a preamp in my stereo room. That was until I upgraded my dac to a Gustard A22 that uses dual akm 4499 chips. I find significantly improved sound going directly from the A22 into my power amp. However if I could use the V281 as a preamp it solves several problems for me. I would have one system that does everything rather than a separate stereo room and headphone listening rig. It would allow me to run a turntable without any plugging and unplugging each time. With that said does anyone know any tips to get the most out of the V281 as a preamp. When I got it I opened it up and set the gain for preamp and -6 if I remember right. It allowed me to use more of the range on the dial for volume. I would be willing to go the extra mile and if I had to spend some money on fuses or other upgrades it would be worth it to me. I am preamps with multiple inputs and dual XLR outputs seem few and far between and are very expensive. And I wouldn't know until I installed it if it was even an improvement. Perhaps I should send this inquiry to Lake People directly. All advice appreciated


----------



## Pharmaboy

milkdudd said:


> Up until a few months ago I thought the V281 would be my end game as a headphone amp and even more importantly as a preamp in my stereo room. That was until I upgraded my dac to a Gustard A22 that uses dual akm 4499 chips. I find significantly improved sound going directly from the A22 into my power amp. However if I could use the V281 as a preamp it solves several problems for me. I would have one system that does everything rather than a separate stereo room and headphone listening rig. It would allow me to run a turntable without any plugging and unplugging each time. With that said does anyone know any tips to get the most out of the V281 as a preamp. When I got it I opened it up and set the gain for preamp and -6 if I remember right. It allowed me to use more of the range on the dial for volume. I would be willing to go the extra mile and if I had to spend some money on fuses or other upgrades it would be worth it to me. I am preamps with multiple inputs and dual XLR outputs seem few and far between and are very expensive. And I wouldn't know until I installed it if it was even an improvement. Perhaps I should send this inquiry to Lake People directly. All advice appreciated


I own a V281 with 128-stepped volume pot & remote. I use it as my system preamp and main headphone amp for my desktop system. The V281 is my favorite audio device, both for its excellent sound and extensive operational flexibility. 

Does your V281 have the remote control & 128-stepped volume pot? I ask because the remote obviously helps with preamp use; and the stepped pot has often been characterized as sounding somewhat better than the non-stepped Alps pot.

A few points to make about using the V281 as a preamp:

It has 2 inputs, one balanced & one single-ended. 
The balanced input can be used for single-ended/RCA sources by using the appropriate SE-to-balanced adapters
You can switch between inputs using the remote control (or the controls on front panel)
The fuse is not user replaceable per the manual: "*MAINS FUSE*: The 0.25A time-lag fuse is soldered in place on the circuit board. In case, it must be replaced with a fuse of the same type only."
The preamp gain is controllable via a separate L & R dipswitch array located inside the case. You can set the preamp's output gain level to anything desired for best results with the downstream devices (ie, amps and/or powered speakers). Note that because headphones outputs have separate gain settings, the headphone & preamp outputs' gain can be set separately. I don't know of any other headphone amp/preamp that allows this.
A couple years ago I went through a phase of trying out opamps. I purchased a pair of recommended/praised opamps that could replace the V281's line-out outputs (located on the upper/output card inside the case. I swapped out the stock opamps for these aftermarket ones and heard small but welcome changes in the sound via the outputs of the V281. I was interested in doing the same for the headphone outputs, but found it impossible to access those outputs due to the stacking of output card over input card inside the case. 

These are the opamps I'm referring to: *Sparkos SS3602*
https://sparkoslabs.com/product/dual-discrete-op-amp-ss3602/


----------



## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> I own a V281 with 128-stepped volume pot & remote. I use it as my system preamp and main headphone amp for my desktop system. The V281 is my favorite audio device, both for its excellent sound and extensive operational flexibility.
> 
> Does your V281 have the remote control & 128-stepped volume pot? I ask because the remote obviously helps with preamp use; and the stepped pot has often been characterized as sounding somewhat better than the non-stepped Alps pot.
> 
> ...


Thanks Pharmaboy I knew I could count on you. I have the Final Edition version of the V281 that comes with the remote controlled volume adjustment but not the stepped attenuator. Can I ask is this stepped attenuator and the opamps you link to something I could swap out myself or would I have to send it to a pro. Sending it from the USA to Germany would make me a little nervous that it could get lost, damaged or severely delayed in shipping. Did you find adjusting the gain on the pre-outs affected sound quality or just the range of the volume control knob. Thanks again, I really don't want to give up on this device and I'm willing to go the extra mile to get the maximum out of it


----------



## Pharmaboy (May 25, 2022)

(deleted)


----------



## fiiom11pro

milkdudd said:


> Thanks Pharmaboy I knew I could count on you. I have the Final Edition version of the V281 that comes with the remote controlled volume adjustment but not the stepped attenuator. Can I ask is this stepped attenuator and the opamps you link to something I could swap out myself or would I have to send it to a pro. Sending it from the USA to Germany would make me a little nervous that it could get lost, damaged or severely delayed in shipping. Did you find adjusting the gain on the pre-outs affected sound quality or just the range of the volume control knob. Thanks again, I really don't want to give up on this device and I'm willing to go the extra mile to get the maximum out of it


they have a local distributor here in the USA and are very responsive and very helpful. One thing I like about Vio aside from its outstanding sonic characteristics are their after market support. I had a problem with the USB input before and they immediately sent me a spanking bnew one and very easily replaceable. 

https://power-holdings-inc.com/


----------



## Pharmaboy

fiiom11pro said:


> they have a local distributor here in the USA and are very responsive and very helpful. One thing I like about Vio aside from its outstanding sonic characteristics are their after market support. I had a problem with the USB input before and they immediately sent me a spanking bnew one and very easily replaceable.
> 
> https://power-holdings-inc.com/


+1 re Arthur Power. 

I bought my Lake People G019-A from Arthur ~6 years ago...a very good experience. Then a couple years ago he helped me repair an issue w/my V281. He's great to deal with.

I met both Arthur and the V281's designer, Fried Reim, at CanJam/NYC 3-4 yrs ago. These are true audio solid citizens in my book.


----------



## Fegefeuer

shoutout to @ArthurPower for being responsive and very supportive


----------



## Luke Thomas

I also had great experience with Arthur Powers Violectric rep.    Class act


----------



## jerick70

I owned a V281 at one time, and wanted to change the faceplate and upgrade to the stepped volume control.  Arthur sold me the parts and walked me through the process. Excellent customer service and a great guy to talk to.


----------



## Pharmaboy

jerick70 said:


> I owned a V281 at one time, and wanted to change the faceplate and upgrade to the stepped volume control.  Arthur sold me the parts and walked me through the process. Excellent customer service and a great guy to talk to.


I had no idea it was even possible to upgrade from std. volume pot to stepped pot.

Another interesting fact about my favorite amp ... live and learn!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> I had no idea it was even possible to upgrade from std. volume pot to stepped pot.



Sure it is! You just step up to it


----------



## UntilThen

I’ve 4 tube amps and that’s my preference. On a recent visit to my son’s place, I brought along He1000se and I must say pretty impressed with what the v281does and how it make Hekse sing.


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> Sure it is! You just step up to it


thanx for a pun-ishing post...


----------



## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> thanx for a pun-ishing post...


If all else fails perhaps you guys could attenuate your opinions


----------



## jonathan c

I would rather that they XLR-ate the puns…🤪🤦🏻👎…


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Exactly, attenuate the positive.


----------



## Pharmaboy

milkdudd said:


> If all else fails perhaps you guys could attenuate your opinions


Sorry, no can do--I'm an opinion attenuation resistor.


----------



## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> Sorry, no can do--I'm an opinion attenuation resistor.


I've heard about your kind. But I remain non-judgmental........ At least for now


----------



## gimmeheadroom

milkdudd said:


> I've heard about your kind. But I remain non-judgmental........ At least for now


People try to put us down....just because we get get get get get around...


----------



## jonathan c

gimmeheadroom said:


> People try to put us down....just because we get get get get get around...


….talkin’ ‘bout my amplification….🤣


----------



## milkdudd (Jun 7, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> ….talkin’ ‘bout my amplification….🤣


I would opine further on this subject, but in reality I would only be putting up an Eminence Front.

On a less serious note, I have been using my V281 is a preamp for the last week or two with the XLR outputs set to fixed volume. I plugged my DAC into it using XLR. Soon I will plug my phono preamp into it using RCA. With both my DAC and my phono preamp having volume controls this way I'm not having double controls of volume anywhere. I now leave the V281 powered up continuously and it gets quite warm, actually hot when I'm listening but that might be a good thing for SQ. I did bypass the V281 last night and plugged my DAC directly into my stereo amplifier to see if the SQ improved. I think it did slightly but the difference has become less now that it's fully warmed up and I'm bypassing the volume control. So I think I'll keep it in my chain as it makes my system so much more versatile. I could occasionally unplug the V281 if I think there are times I need that final couple of percent clarity in the sound


----------



## M-83

Hi all,

I am excited to be expecting delivery today of a V281 to pair with my Musician Pegasus (1250 ohm output impedance) and LCD-3.

I would be grateful for some advice on recommended V281 settings.

Thx


----------



## Fegefeuer

Most important is using the 4-PIN XLR headphone output to make use of all 4 amplifiers inside.

Play with pregain if you want more volume control range

Use xlr from the Pegasus to the v281


----------



## M-83

Fegefeuer said:


> Most important is using the 4-PIN XLR headphone output to make use of all 4 amplifiers inside.
> 
> Play with pregain if you want more volume control range
> 
> Use xlr from the Pegasus to the v281


Thanks. Using an iPad into Pegasus, should I set volume on iPad at highest?

Also, I noticed that there is clicking on headphones when adjusting volume. I read this is common?


----------



## M-83

Fegefeuer said:


> Most important is using the 4-PIN XLR headphone output to make use of all 4 amplifiers inside.
> 
> Play with pregain if you want more volume control range
> 
> Use xlr from the Pegasus to the v281


Gain settings are all off at the moment.


----------



## M-83

M-83 said:


> Thanks. Using an iPad into Pegasus, should I set volume on iPad at highest?
> 
> Also, I noticed that there is clicking on headphones when adjusting volume. I read this is common?


crackling not clicking. Just makes me jump lol. 

Not anything wrong with the amp at all. 

I’ve stuck gain at -12 to begin with.


----------



## M-83

will adjusting gain change things like bass presence etc?


----------



## Pharmaboy

M-83 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am excited to be expecting delivery today of a V281 to pair with my Musician Pegasus (1250 ohm output impedance) and LCD-3.
> 
> ...


Besides using the 4-pin XLR headphone output for best sound, I would advise you to adjust the V281's gain as needed (taking into account the Musician Pegasis' output voltage, which I can't find anywhere) using the dip switches on the back of the unit.

If you also plan to use the V281 as a preamp (it does superbly well in that role), you can also adjust the separate dipswitch array for preamp gain found inside the case.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Jun 10, 2022)

M-83 said:


> will adjusting gain change things like bass presence etc?


There has been endless speculation on this issue--audible/sonic effects of different gain settings--in this and other headphone amplifier threads.

I personally have never heard any qualitative sonic differences between different gain settings. But what I do hear are gross gain mismatches at higher gain settings--meaning the volume pot is stuck almost all the way counterclockwise, with very little "play" to adjust headphone volume.

For me at least, the primary reason to adjust gain is to push the usable volume pot "play" into the sweet spot--from ~10AM on the dial (for the most sensitive/low impedance HPs) to ~2PM on the dial (for the least sensitive/highest impedance HPs).


----------



## M-83

Pharmaboy said:


> Besides using the 4-pin XLR headphone output for best sound, I would advise you to adjust the V281's gain as needed (taking into account the Musician Pegasis' output voltage, which I can't find anywhere) using the dip switches on the back of the unit.
> 
> If you also plan to use the V281 as a preamp (it does superbly well in that role), you can also adjust the separate dipswitch array for preamp gain found inside the case.


I am using the XLR headphone output on V281, and XLR interconnects from Pegasus to V281.

Pegasus output voltage on xlr is 3.55Vrms, though I am not sure what this means in terms of selecting the most appropriate regain setting on the back of the unit.

Not planning to use V281 as a preamp into anything else.


----------



## Pharmaboy

M-83 said:


> I am using the XLR headphone output on V281, and XLR interconnects from Pegasus to V281.
> 
> Pegasus output voltage on xlr is 3.55Vrms, though I am not sure what this means in terms of selecting the most appropriate regain setting on the back of the unit.
> 
> Not planning to use V281 as a preamp into anything else.


I can only respond in terms of my own situation:

My DAC (MHDT Labs Orchid) is connected to the V281 via RCA interconnect. 
It outputs 3.0 volts, slightly less than your DAC's 3.55 volts output
To get my V281's gain set properly (ie, so the volume pot isn't pinned counterclockwise, allowing little rotation for actual volume adjustment on most headphones), I have the dipswitches on the back set to -12 dB.
Another big factor here is the type of headphones you use. If you use headphones that are very inefficient or high impedance, you may get away with less gain reduction than me. Conversely, if your headphones tend toward efficiency and low impedance, you'll need all of the -12 db setting if not a little more.

To repeat--setting gain is 100% about optimizing your range of volume settings available on that big volume pot of the V281. The objective is the use the middle 1/2 of the pot, rather than just the bottom 1/4.


----------



## M-83

Pharmaboy said:


> I can only respond in terms of my own situation:
> 
> My DAC (MHDT Labs Orchid) is connected to the V281 via RCA interconnect.
> It outputs 3.0 volts, slightly less than your DAC's 3.55 volts output
> ...


Okay thanks for the further insight. 

Headphones I’ll be using are 

Audeze LCD-3 - 110 ohms (main headphone)

Mrspeakers Alpha Prime - 50 ohms

Both planar and hard to drive. 

Primes are particularly hard to drive and enjoy wattage and current.


----------



## Pharmaboy

M-83 said:


> Okay thanks for the further insight.
> 
> Headphones I’ll be using are
> 
> ...


Interesting pair of planars. I owned a pre-fazor version of the LCD-3 several years ago (lovely sound), but never managed to hear the Primes.

With those 2 headphones and the DAC you describe, I recommend starting the V281 at 0 dB attenuation, just to establish a baseline. Even with these planars and their higher-than-usual capacity for power, I suspect you'll find yourself confined to the lower/counterclockwise portion of the volume pot with no attentuation. If so, try -6 dB attenuation...if that isn't enough, try -12 dB. 

Beyond attenuation, I found the V281 to be a superior and reliably good-sounding amp for any/all planars I've owned. I own 2 planars at the moment: the somewhat efficient Final D8000 & the very inefficient/power-hog ZMF Ori. I love the sound of both, and both sound terrific on the V281.


----------



## M-83

Pharmaboy said:


> Interesting pair of planars. I owned a pre-fazor version of the LCD-3 several years ago (lovely sound), but never managed to hear the Primes.
> 
> With those 2 headphones and the DAC you describe, I recommend starting the V281 at 0 dB attenuation, just to establish a baseline. Even with these planars and their higher-than-usual capacity for power, I suspect you'll find yourself confined to the lower/counterclockwise portion of the volume pot with no attentuation. If so, try -6 dB attenuation...if that isn't enough, try -12 dB.
> 
> Beyond attenuation, I found the V281 to be a superior and reliably good-sounding amp for any/all planars I've owned. I own 2 planars at the moment: the somewhat efficient Final D8000 & the very inefficient/power-hog ZMF Ori. I love the sound of both, and both sound terrific on the V281.


Okay cool. If I want to set -12 for example, assuming I only push up the -12 switch and not the -6 too? Just to be clear- I haven’t done that (yet). 

-12 barely gets me to 9 o clock on the vol pot and I can’t get past 10 I clock as getting too loud. 

I’ve no idea which variant of vol pot I have. 

I have a universal remote mapped to it, though it seems like it’s not consistent in how many clicks it changes with each remote control press, so I’m manually changing volume for greater control to begin with. 

I’m going to leave at -12 initially I think as I need to get used to it. 

I think it sounds great but for whatever reason I’m in a bit of an adjustment/learning curve (not a moan). 

Ah I love lcd-3. It’s awesome.  Primes are fantastic too, they’re very musical and generate a deep emotional connection to the music. 

The models you have are vert good too from what I’ve read. I’ve not heard either though.


----------



## M-83

One thing I noticed is that the volume on my iPad Air 4 is still adjustable when using Pegasus (it wasn’t using Burson C3R) so should I be leaving The iPad volume on maximum? 

I assume I should,,,


----------



## Pharmaboy

M-83 said:


> Okay cool. If I want to set -12 for example, assuming I only push up the -12 switch and not the -6 too? Just to be clear- I haven’t done that (yet).
> 
> -12 barely gets me to 9 o clock on the vol pot and I can’t get past 10 I clock as getting too loud.
> 
> ...


I was afraid of this. Your DAC's voltage is relatively high/"hot," which makes even the -12 dB setting of the "Pre-Gain" dipswitches on the back panel, not sufficient.

FYI, you can squeeze another -2 dB attenuation out of the dipswitches (for a total of -14 dB) by pressing upward the -6 and -12 switches together on each channel. That may help a little bit.

There is another tool that can help: Rothwell attenuators. I have the single-ended version rated at -10 dB. They are very transparent sonically (I use them with a different amp that has extreme power and no gain settings at all):

http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html

Note that 1/3 of the way down the page, they show the -10 dB balanced attenuators. These are not cheap (I think they're $135 US/pair), but they would absolutely change your gain situation. If you used a pair of these on the balanced input, you could almost certain get away with only setting -6 dB on the "Pre-Gain" input switches.

As for type of volume pot, if you hear no sound at all when using the remote to increase/decrease volume, then you probably have the standard Alps potentiometer (non-stepped). But if you hear a very low volume sound a little bit like tumblers clicking in a lock, then you have the 128-stepped version (that's what I have). You really should get an original remote for the V281. Even with that there tends to be a little overshoot or undershoot in volume setting; but very delicate touches on the rocker switch for volume help control that. 

As for the LCD-3, I found my pre-fazor LCD-3 to have one of the prettiest tones ever for any headphone on classical music (orchestral; chamber; choral; recital). The only headphone that is its equal w/classical is the ZMF Verite Open, but that's a whole other story (a top-of-the-line dynamic headphone w/novel driver material). 

I hope I'm helping you...


----------



## M-83

Pharmaboy said:


> I was afraid of this. Your DAC's voltage is relatively high/"hot," which makes even the -12 dB setting of the "Pre-Gain" dipswitches on the back panel, not sufficient.
> 
> FYI, you can squeeze another -2 dB attenuation out of the dipswitches (for a total of -14 dB) by pressing upward the -6 and -12 switches together on each channel. That may help a little bit.
> 
> ...


Firstly and most importantly I want to thank you for your time, you most certainly have helped me enormously. 

Having been spending quite a bit of time and energy thinking about pregain settings and considering your advice, I’ve been able to settle for now at 0 gain. I think some adjustment to the voicing of the system was needed, so I can better process what I’m hearing. 

At 0 gain, I’m around 9 o clock now, and it’s bordering on the loud side so I may adjust to -6dB and get more control and I can possibly get to 10-11 o clock without being too loud. 

The vol pot is motorised when using the remote control and does click with movement, so looks like I have the preferred vol pot option.

I do get a little static when changing volume occasionally so perhaps I should reach out to Violectric to ask if a service is required?

Yes I agree that an OEM remote control is preferable, so I will look into picking one up from Violectric (or elsewhere if needed). 

But blimey this amp rocks. I can already appreciate why it’s so universally loved. 

Even though Pegasus is new and has only just started getting some use (4 hours listening time and 5 days standby but had to unplug today when setting V281 up), the combo i think is better than anything else I’ve previously owned. 

The dynamic range is astounding and the brittle highs (to my ears) of the C3R ESS sabre are gone. It’s beautifully voiced, and the bass is fuller and more articulate than C3R. 

This is a keeper.

Regarding LCD-3, I think it’s exquisite and with C3R at least I preferred it over LCD-4. 

Tbh I always felt with C3R that LCD-3 was under powered and didn’t receive the current it wanted. I know opinions differ on wattage requirements (do you really need higher wattage  etc) but I get the impression that the wattage and current provided by V281 will be very welcome. 

I can’t say I listen to a lot of those types of classical music, but I really do love Vangelis (Antarctica and Bladerunner ost), Sarah Brightman, Hans Zimmer, and Jan Garbarek. I cannot wait to listen to them on this system. 

I also recommend you listen to Blackmill and Clem Leek (both a bit different to those you listed above but an incredible listen anyway). 

I had ZMF VO a while back but ultimately I much prefer planar to dynamic headphones.


----------



## M-83

Pharmaboy said:


> I was afraid of this. Your DAC's voltage is relatively high/"hot," which makes even the -12 dB setting of the "Pre-Gain" dipswitches on the back panel, not sufficient.
> 
> FYI, you can squeeze another -2 dB attenuation out of the dipswitches (for a total of -14 dB) by pressing upward the -6 and -12 switches together on each channel. That may help a little bit.
> 
> ...


Also give M83 and port-royal a listen.


----------



## M-83

Pharmaboy said:


> I was afraid of this. Your DAC's voltage is relatively high/"hot," which makes even the -12 dB setting of the "Pre-Gain" dipswitches on the back panel, not sufficient.
> 
> FYI, you can squeeze another -2 dB attenuation out of the dipswitches (for a total of -14 dB) by pressing upward the -6 and -12 switches together on each channel. That may help a little bit.
> 
> ...


I’ve just switched to -6 gain and I’m at 10 o clock and I’m not sure it makes a big difference. 

V281 power output is at its highest at 100 ohms - 5.3 or 5.6 watts- so that’s huge peak  power for LCD-3 (110 ohms) even if that’s not possible to reach due to volume levels Etc.


----------



## M-83

Pharmaboy said:


> I was afraid of this. Your DAC's voltage is relatively high/"hot," which makes even the -12 dB setting of the "Pre-Gain" dipswitches on the back panel, not sufficient.
> 
> FYI, you can squeeze another -2 dB attenuation out of the dipswitches (for a total of -14 dB) by pressing upward the -6 and -12 switches together on each channel. That may help a little bit.
> 
> ...


Having looked at the Violectric website, it appears that actually I do have the remote control that comes with the 128 step attenuator.

Tbh I just assumed it was aftermarket! Oops 🤦🏻‍♂️


----------



## M-83

Is it possible / advisable / recommended to leave the volume set at a preferred volume (say 9-10 o clock) when you power down or power up V281 a long as no music is playing at the time?

Or could that damage headphones?


----------



## ctrlm

M-83 said:


> I am not sure what this means in terms of selecting the most appropriate regain setting on the back of the unit.


As Pharmaboy says above - choose a gain setting that has you listening somewhere between 10am & 2pm on the volume dial.


----------



## M-83

More of a general question, but is it okay to "daisy chain" XLR interconnects to provide a longer cable reach?  Will this adversely affect dac or amp operations (cause damage and/or degradation of SQ)?

I would like a little more room to play with in cable length for positioning Pegasus and V281, and with a spare set of interconnects I didn't want to buy longer ones needlessly.


----------



## Fegefeuer

M-83 said:


> Is it possible / advisable / recommended to leave the volume set at a preferred volume (say 9-10 o clock) when you power down or power up V281 a long as no music is playing at the time?
> 
> Or could that damage headphones?



No need to turn down the volume, leave it as it is. Circuit is protected.


----------



## M-83

Fegefeuer said:


> No need to turn down the volume, leave it as it is. Circuit is protected.


Thanks very much


----------



## M-83

I am enjoying V281 and Pegasus for the first time with Alpha Primes plugged in

What fantastic synergy. 

Prime is darker than LCD-3, but it has a lovely tone, gorgeous vocals, and L-R imaging is still the best I’ve encountered in any headphone so far. 

Has more bass weight than my previous dac/amp combinations with far more impressive layering. Prime now has the bass presence I was previously looking for. 

Very very musical and fun. Not really a critical listen. It’s amazing how the dynamics have subtly changed with the dac and amp change. 

Prime with C3R by comparison was brighter, harsher and no where near as lush as this. 

Might need pregain at 0 instead of -6 though we will see. Having to push the volume up higher with Prime, but perhaps it’s also because it’s darker than lcd-3?

Also helps that it’s closed back for when my wife is watching TV in the lounge 😂


----------



## M-83

Is V281 known to benefit from warm up before sounding is best? 

It seems like it to me, though I wondered if others think this or am I just imagining it?


----------



## milkdudd

M-83 said:


> Is V281 known to benefit from warm up before sounding is best?
> 
> It seems like it to me, though I wondered if others think this or am I just imagining it?


At least a couple of days (weeks?)


----------



## M-83

milkdudd said:


> At least a couple of days (weeks?)


Ah sorry I don’t mean burn in from new, I meant reaching an optimal operating temperature after being powered up.


----------



## Pharmaboy

M-83 said:


> Ah sorry I don’t mean burn in from new, I meant reaching an optimal operating temperature after being powered up.


Most solid state amps get up to operating temp pretty quickly. A fast SS amp in that regard would be ~10 minutes; a slow one would be 2-3X that. I have a couple of each type. 

The V281 is a fast warmup amp. It sounds its usual amazing/goodness very soon after turn-on...


----------



## M-83

Pharmaboy said:


> Most solid state amps get up to operating temp pretty quickly. A fast SS amp in that regard would be ~10 minutes; a slow one would be 2-3X that. I have a couple of each type.
> 
> The V281 is a fast warmup amp. It sounds its usual amazing/goodness very soon after turn-on...


Yeah cool. I thought perhaps after about 20-25 mins V281 was sounding better. 

Could just be adjustment to how Alpha Prime sounded during a first listen.


----------



## M-83

Having just switched back from Prime to LCD-3 and I’m deeply impressed again. 

Both models of HP are fantastic. 

I think Pegasus is continuing to open up during its burn in phase. 
@Pharmaboy this is one of my all time favourite tracks and it sounds sublime


----------



## Pharmaboy

M-83 said:


> Having just switched back from Prime to LCD-3 and I’m deeply impressed again.
> 
> Both models of HP are fantastic.
> 
> ...


I'm not a fan of these particular artists, but I am a huge fan of the human voice. It's easily the hardest "instrument" for any headphone to convincingly reproduce. If you're getting really good voice reproduction via these headphones, it means the DAC and amp are both transparent & musical.

FWIW, I've read many fine things about the Pegasus (and I know how good the V281 can be).


----------



## milkdudd

M-83 said:


> Yeah cool. I thought perhaps after about 20-25 mins V281 was sounding better.
> 
> Could just be adjustment to how Alpha Prime sounded during a first listen.


My V281 is very much broken in I believe. I bought it pre-owned so I can't be sure how many hours on it. While I agree it sounds great all the time, I meant to hear it at it's very best I think it takes a couple of days or more powered up. I have many variables, as I live in a very industrial area. So the quality of the incoming power is probably not the most consistent. I seem to hear my best sound very late on a Sunday night when the industrial companies are mostly shut down. I think it's undisputed that Schiit Yggdrasil dac takes a full 2 weeks to sound its best. I should also say that I use mine about 98 to 99% as a preamp to my stereo system, so headphone listening sound quality could be entirely different relative to how long it's been powered up. Anyway we all have a really sweet unit in the V281!


----------



## nieveulv

I currently have a wooaudio wa2 as my amp. Thinking to get a v281 as well and using the wa2 as a tube preamp. Is there a way to disable the v281 preamp (volume control) and using the wa2 as the preamp instead?


----------



## Pharmaboy

nieveulv said:


> I currently have a wooaudio wa2 as my amp. Thinking to get a v281 as well and using the wa2 as a tube preamp. Is there a way to disable the v281 preamp (volume control) and using the wa2 as the preamp instead?


If it were me, I'd just rotate that big pot all the way clockwise, then let the WA2 control volume.

But typical of Violectric's/Lake People's design thoroughness, there's a setting inside the case for "Pre Fader," which sets the outgoing volume to line level, not modulated by the volume pot. The manual is attached; Pre-Fader is discussed on pp. 21-22. 

You have to be careful when doing this setting. Don't have anything downstream of the V281 powered up...


----------



## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> If it were me, I'd just rotate that big pot all the way clockwise, then let the WA2 control volume.
> 
> But typical of Violectric's/Lake People's design thoroughness, there's a setting inside the case for "Pre Fader," which sets the outgoing volume to line level, not modulated by the volume pot. The manual is attached; Pre-Fader is discussed on pp. 21-22.
> 
> You have to be careful when doing this setting. Don't have anything downstream of the V281 powered up...


Pharmaboy, can I ask why you have a preference of turning the volume to full rather than setting the line output to fixed? Is it just your personal preference or are you convinced it will output better sound?


----------



## Pharmaboy

milkdudd said:


> Pharmaboy, can I ask why you have a preference of turning the volume to full rather than setting the line output to fixed? Is it just your personal preference or are you convinced it will output better sound?


I have the 128 stepped pot, which has next to zero channel imbalance regardless of setting. So for me, it would simply be easier to rotate the pot to full-on, than to open the case & mess w/the pre-fader.

(confession: sometimes I'm lazy)

But I have to admit that setting the Pre-Fader would probably be the most sonically transparent method of all, since it completely bypasses the pot (as I understand it).


----------



## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> I have the 128 stepped pot, which has next to zero channel imbalance regardless of setting. So for me, it would simply be easier to rotate the pot to full-on, than to open the case & mess w/the pre-fader.
> 
> (confession: sometimes I'm lazy)
> 
> But I have to admit that setting the Pre-Fader would probably be the most sonically transparent method of all, since it completely bypasses the pot (as I understand it).


Okay, sorry I forgot you have the stepped attenuator. Shame on me as I believe we discussed that topic ad nauseam recently (meant in a good way, by the way) 😁


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I guess setting the internal jumper is much safer than cranking the volume knob up. Isn't it?


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> I guess setting the internal jumper is much safer than cranking the volume knob up. Isn't it?


I just went back and re-read the post by @nieveulv that started all this. I should have done this earlier:
"I currently have a wooaudio wa2 as my amp. Thinking to get a v281 as well and using the wa2 as a tube preamp. Is there a way to disable the v281 preamp (volume control) and using the wa2 as the preamp instead?"​
Forget my earlier reply, which missed something. The correct answer to this would be in 2 parts:

*The WA2 has 4 RCA inputs but no RCA outputs that I can discern. Therefore it can only be used as an amp--not a preamp*
So the only way a V281 and WA2 could be connected is for the RCA output of the V281 to one of the RCA inputs of the WA2--in effect, using the V281 as a preamp. But as the balanced & single-ended/RCA outputs of the V281 should not be used simultaneously, that would mean the V281-as-preamp would control only the WA2--it could not also be used to control any other downsteam devices. 
OK, with that out of the way, the question would still remain whether to use the Pre-Fader of the V281 to bypass its volume control. Doing so would make the WA2's volume control the only one in the circuit.

BTW, I've never used a WA2. Maybe I'm missing something here that all WA2 owners know. If so, please enlighten me...

That might be slightly more desirable technically--but it's also crazy, since use of Pre-Fader would effectively rule out use of the V281 as a headphone amp, in addition to the WA2.

So the whole idea is a bit screwy, now that I think of it.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Well, at some point in WA2 history it did ship with a preamp feature but that was removed a few years ago to the outrage of many fans and would-be fans.

I just meant, if there is an option for the V281 to disable volume control when acting as a preamp I think that would be a lot safer than cranking the volume, since presumably pre-out is expected to be line level and should not be controlled with the knob- and at the same time, the headamp outputs would surely remain on the variable output circuit.

Yeah, I believe volume should always be controlled at the amp, not at the preamp. A fully driven amp works as designed. Changing the end of the line volume by increasing the drive implies leaving the amp on max which is horribly dangerous and leads to inconsistence performance based on drive level.

That said, I really don't know what pre-fader is but I doubt very much that the amp has any surprising behavioral options.


----------



## milkdudd (Jun 16, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I guess setting the internal jumper is much safer than cranking the volume knob up. Isn't it?


Actually the internal jumpers are for adjusting the gain for the line outputs. That affects how high you have to turn the volume knob of the V281 to get your desired volume out. Setting line out to fixed volume is done by pressing buttons on the upper left of the front panel. If you look in your manual it's a very simple procedure

Edit: I see now there were a couple of posts that I didn't see before I posted this but I still think the above information is correct, whether or not it's still relevant to you I'm not sure


----------



## nieveulv (Jun 16, 2022)

> Pharmaboy said:
> 
> 
> > If it were me, I'd just rotate that big pot all the way clockwise, then let the WA2 control volume.
> ...





> At the moment im using this method with the cayin iha-6, however when the volume pot of the cayin is at full, theres a loud hissing noise even when the wa2 is 0 volume.  Using the Wa2 at full volume, there is a high screeching noise therefore not possible as well. For now im using the cayin at 12 oclock fixed volume and adjusting with pots of Wa2, Im liking this but using 2 preamps volume does not seem right and on the cayin theres no way to bypass the preamp
> Nice info regarding the prefader, thats exactly what im looking for! Wondering if line out and the headphone balanced out is the same fixed volume bypass.


----------



## nieveulv (Jun 16, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> Actually the internal jumpers are for adjusting the gain for the line outputs. That affects how high you have to turn the volume knob of the V281 to get your desired volume out. Setting line out to fixed volume is done by pressing buttons on the upper left of the front panel. If you look in your manual it's a very simple procedure
> 
> Edit: I see now there were a couple of posts that I didn't see before I posted this but I still think the above information is correct, whether or not it's still relevant to you I'm not sure


Will line out by pass the volume on the Headphone jack as well? Im afraid doing line out will disable the headphones output which i need.



Pharmaboy said:


> I just went back and re-read the post by @nieveulv that started all this. I should have done this earlier:
> "I currently have a wooaudio wa2 as my amp. Thinking to get a v281 as well and using the wa2 as a tube preamp. Is there a way to disable the v281 preamp (volume control) and using the wa2 as the preamp instead?"​
> Forget my earlier reply, which missed something. The correct answer to this would be in 2 parts:
> 
> ...



The OG Wa2 have preamp output, wherelse the current ones dont, Understandable how many will be confused. So for now my system
PC -> ares 2 -> Wa2 -> caying iha-6 (low gain, volume at 12pm untouched) -> verite open.

Adding the WA2 as preamp adds some euphonic qualities to the system compared to only using the IHA6, while adding the iha6 instead of just wa2 adds some extension of both ends and bass punch/slam.

Trying to replace the iha-6 with an amp that can disable the headphones out volume control and using Wa2 as preamp volume. Im hoping v281 is the one for this

So im not trying to use the V281 a a preamp for the Wa2 but the other way around.

Thanks All for the feedback!!


----------



## Pharmaboy

nieveulv said:


> Will line out by pass the volume on the Headphone jack as well? Im afraid doing line out will disable the headphones output which i need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK, if your WA2 can act as a preamp--if it has a L/R pair of RCA outputs--then you can definitely use it as a preamp with the V281. Assuming you have an input sending signal to the WA2 (ie, a DAC or streamer), you would do this as follows:

1. With both amp units being off, connect the RCA outputs of the WA2 to the RCA inputs of the V281
2. Just to be safe, rotate the volume pot on each unit all the way left (no volume)
3. Then turn on both units--as well as the DAC or streamer
4. On the V281, look at the upper left corner of the front panel--a series of 3 black buttons side-by-side. Press the middle one labelled "RCA," which tells the V281 that the input signal is coming via the RCA inputs, not balanced inputs
5. Next, plug a headphone into the V281 (any headphone output will do)
6. Now you can carefully adjust each volume control, just as a test to make sure you get sound via the headphone. This is just a basic test of the connection. With the volume control of the WA3 set to, say, 9:00AM on the dial, turn up the volume pot on the V281 until you hear sound via the headphones.

Assuming you get sound in the headphones, now you face the choice that most the recent posts describe--how to set the V281 to let the WA3 completely control the volume (not the V281). You have 2 choices:

Turning up the V281's volume pot all the way, or nearly all the way clockwise. Don't do this until you again turn down the volume pot of the WA2 first. You should now be able to set the volume of the headphone plugged into the WA2, by rotating the volume pot of the WA2 until the desired sound is reached.
OR...you can follow instructions in the manual on pp.21/22 to set the "Pre-Fader" of the V281 (again, first, turn down the WA2's volume control all the way). This will bypass the V281's volume control completely, so that any volume setting you make on the WA2, will come through the V281 to the headphone
Note that you can also connect other things (powered speakers, or amp + speakers) to the V281, and still use the WA2 as a preamp. 

What I don't know in this connection scenario is what happens when you plug a headphone into the WA2. I think the preamp is bypassed and only the signal to the headphone is amplified, but that may not be true. What happens there is a function of the design of the WA2...


----------



## nieveulv (Jun 16, 2022)

Pharmaboy said:


> OK, if your WA2 can act as a preamp--if it has a L/R pair of RCA outputs--then you can definitely use it as a preamp with the V281. Assuming you have an input sending signal to the WA2 (ie, a DAC or streamer), you would do this as follows:
> 
> 1. With both amp units being off, connect the RCA outputs of the WA2 to the RCA inputs of the V281
> 2. Just to be safe, rotate the volume pot on each unit all the way left (no volume)
> ...


Thanks for thisss. I dont need the headphone output of my WA2 (to answer the question, yes the output works even after rca out)
Once again this is very helpful

1st choice of turning headamp volume up does not work in the cayin IHA-6 due t the loud hiss when i did that. Hope v281 works


----------



## gimmeheadroom

milkdudd said:


> Actually the internal jumpers are for adjusting the gain for the line outputs.



Usually that's done at the dip switches. The internal jumpers are to change functionality, not gain AFAIK.



Pharmaboy said:


> [*]Turning up the V281's volume pot all the way, or nearly all the way clockwise.


This is the part that's dangerous and a worst-practice


----------



## Giru

Sorry I'm changing the subject but yesterday I had what I can decidedly call the best audio experience of my life. 

I recently got the Heddphone on loan from a friend and had been toying with it for a few days. First impressions were positive but I knew I was missing something. I was running it with the stock single ended cable but I wasn't able to kick the heddphone from "impressive" to "mind-blowing" category even as I could clearly hear the potential was there.

Gents, switch to a balanced cable for the hedd and I can assure you it will blow your socks off. This is a match made in heaven with the Vio. The dynamics, detail, resolution, speed, imaging, almost everything is nearly summit-fi. I've heard so many setups over the years and I am pretty confident that this is probably the best synergy I've ever experienced between an amp and a headphone. Yesterday's session was just emotional for me. To have that kind of performance from my own rig was just moving. Estat like highs and ethereal midrange with the punch of planar bass; I literally had goosebumps on multiple tracks. To hear new details in tracks that you've heard over a 1000 times is just nuts. Can't recommend this pairing enough✌


----------



## milkdudd

gimmeheadroom said:


> Usually that's done at the dip switches. The internal jumpers are to change functionality, not gain AFAIK.


1000 pardons. I meant to say internal dip switches. In my mind I was picturing them when I said jumpers. Obviously a big difference. I think in the future I will refer folks to a certain page in the manual 🙄


----------



## milkdudd

milkdudd said:


> 1000 pardons. I meant to say internal dip switches. In my mind I was picturing them when I said jumpers. Obviously a big difference. I think in the future I will refer folks to a certain page in the manual 🙄


Guru, happy to hear about your game changing experience. Just curious, I see they are for sale everywhere for $1,500. Each retailer lists normal price as $1900. Do you happen to know if $1,500 is a revised price or a temporary sale? Might consider getting these in the fall but if the price goes back up I'd be mad that I waited


----------



## jonathan c

Giru said:


> Sorry I'm changing the subject but yesterday I had what I can decidedly call the best audio experience of my life.
> 
> I recently got the Heddphone on loan from a friend and had been toying with it for a few days. First impressions were positive but I knew I was missing something. I was running it with the stock single ended cable but I wasn't able to kick the heddphone from "impressive" to "mind-blowing" category even as I could clearly hear the potential was there.
> 
> *Gents*, switch to a balanced cable for the hedd and I can assure you it will blow your socks off. This is a match made in heaven with the Vio. The dynamics, detail, resolution, speed, imaging, almost everything is nearly summit-fi. I've heard so many setups over the years and I am pretty confident that this is probably the best synergy I've ever experienced between an amp and a headphone. Yesterday's session was just emotional for me. To have that kind of performance from my own rig was just moving. Estat like highs and ethereal midrange with the punch of planar bass; I literally had goosebumps on multiple tracks. To hear new details in tracks that you've heard over a 1000 times is just nuts. Can't recommend this pairing enough✌


….ahem, the ladies too?….


----------



## gimmeheadroom

milkdudd said:


> 1000 pardons. I meant to say internal dip switches. In my mind I was picturing them when I said jumpers. Obviously a big difference. I think in the future I will refer folks to a certain page in the manual 🙄


The DIP switches are external. So I'm waitin' for the next thousand pardons, Pard


----------



## thecrow

I have a wa2 with the preamp function. i tried that with my jbl speakers but did not like the sound when using the wa2 preamp function.

ymmv

on the other hand i love having the pass through/ preamp function available on the v280 (previously) and now the niimbus. That works great especially as my previous main dac was best when using xlr outs. (Xlr outs from dac to v280/niimbus and rca from that amp to woo wa2)


----------



## gimmeheadroom

thecrow said:


> on the other hand i love having the pass through/ preamp function available on the v280 (previously) and now the niimbus. That works great especially as my previous main dac was best when using xlr outs. (Xlr outs from dac to v280/niimbus and rca from that amp to woo wa2)



I was using that also on my V280, but it would have been better to have switchable inputs. So I added an amp from another company to my headstation that has multiple inputs and the V280 is back to running only XLR off my Brooklyn. The lack of multiple switchable XLR inputs is the biggest shortcoming of Violectrics. I love the heavy duty build and sound quality. I don't want an internal DAC. I wish Fried would have come out with an amp with a bunch of XLR inputs instead of the models we saw recently.


----------



## thecrow

gimmeheadroom said:


> I was using that also on my V280, but it would have been better to have switchable inputs. So I added an amp from another company to my headstation that has multiple inputs and the V280 is back to running only XLR off my Brooklyn. The lack of multiple switchable XLR inputs is the biggest shortcoming of Violectrics. I love the heavy duty build and sound quality. I don't want an internal DAC. I wish Fried would have come out with an amp with a bunch of XLR inputs instead of the models we saw recently.


A second set of xlr inputs would have been great in the niimbus for me too. Alas……


----------



## Giru

milkdudd said:


> Guru, happy to hear about your game changing experience. Just curious, I see they are for sale everywhere for $1,500. Each retailer lists normal price as $1900. Do you happen to know if $1,500 is a revised price or a temporary sale? Might consider getting these in the fall but if the price goes back up I'd be mad that I waited


I think it's temporary coz the prices in India have actually gone up. Regardless, 1500 is just nuts for this headphone. Grab it if you're looking to get one. Balanced off the 281 is sick!!


----------



## Giru

jonathan c said:


> jonathan c said:
> 
> 
> > ….ahem, the ladies too?….
> ...


----------



## milkdudd

Ever since Giru's glowing report on the combination of V281 and Heddphone it's been in the back of my mind. I'm curious if any of you have ever listened to both the Dan Clark Ether 2 and the Heddphone connected with a balanced cable to the V281. The Ether 2 is what I'm using now and I'm pleased with it but I think it's likely that the Heddphone would be a big step up. If I don't wait too long I think I can still get them for $1,500. Just like to convince myself it's going to be a significant upgrade before I commit. Thanks


----------



## FinHifi

Does someone have experience how Topping A90 or Singxer SA-1 compare with V281?
Thinking of upgrading my singxer to this, but dont know if it is worth it :S


----------



## gimmeheadroom

FinHifi said:


> Does someone have experience how Topping A90 or Singxer SA-1 compare with V281?
> Thinking of upgrading my singxer to this, but dont know if it is worth it :S


The build quality is magnitudes better. Whether you like the sound or not is a personal thing.

The V280/281 are just very slightly not cold.


----------



## Shane D

FinHifi said:


> Does someone have experience how Topping A90 or Singxer SA-1 compare with V281?
> Thinking of upgrading my singxer to this, but dont know if it is worth it :S


I have a V220, which is a stripped down version of the V281 (less power and no balanced out).
The sound is very soft and warm. I love it but you need, IMO, to have a more neutral, more exact amp to spell it off. I find it is a great match with my iFi amp.
It also makes a phenomenal pre-amp, if you're into that.

I would think it has a Lot more warmth than the A90.

In the very near future I am going to run the V220 head to head with my Little Dot MK9 and see if the tube amp is even worth keeping.


----------



## Law87

FinHifi said:


> Does someone have experience how Topping A90 or Singxer SA-1 compare with V281?
> Thinking of upgrading my singxer to this, but dont know if it is worth it :S




I had the topping A90...its a very thin sound in comparison, V281 had weight to it, warmth sort of tube like but quicker transient like a solid state, A90 seems more narrow in sound stage in comparison more sterile sound than V281. I returned the A90 right away when I had it.


----------



## jonathan c

Law87 said:


> I had the topping A90...its a very thin sound in comparison, V281 had weight to it, warmth sort of tube like but quicker transient like a solid state, A90 seems more narrow in sound stage in comparison more sterile sound than V281. I returned the A90 right away when I had it.


“Sterile” is the most apt description of Topping A90 sound - uninvolving, a world apart from the classic Vioelectric ‘house’ sound.


----------



## FinHifi

Law87 said:


> I had the topping A90...its a very thin sound in comparison, V281 had weight to it, warmth sort of tube like but quicker transient like a solid state, A90 seems more narrow in sound stage in comparison more sterile sound than V281. I returned the A90 right away when I had it.





jonathan c said:


> “Sterile” is the most apt description of Topping A90 sound - uninvolving, a world apart from the classic Vioelectric ‘house’ sound.


I agree, i did not like A90, it was too harsh and caused fatigue for my ears. But if you prefer clinical sound, i can see the appeal


----------



## Fegefeuer

If you don't like music and enjoy audio gear like your GPU cycle then Topping is actually extremely good.


----------



## Ichos

It is like comparing apples to oranges.
The one plays music and the other reproduces sounds.


----------



## Angel III

I recommend trying the Lake People G111 MKIl. I've been buying it for about a month and every time I plug it into my headphones, it sounds incredibly good. Low frequencies are reproduced perfectly crisp and prominent when needed. This amplifier is characterized by a neutral and faithful sound. Absolutely not tired in the acute peaks. The musical soundstage and instrumental separation is perfectly reproduced.


----------



## Kozwoz

Anyone know what the direct successor is to the V281. The new Violectrics amps I tested aren’t as warm or bassy as the old ones which is a shame. The 500 series have sort of lost they’re tube like quality.


----------



## Ichos

Kozwoz said:


> Anyone know what the direct successor is to the V281. The new Violectrics amps I tested aren’t as warm or bassy as the old ones which is a shame. The 500 series have sort of lost they’re tube like quality.


It is the V222.


----------



## Empyah

Kozwoz said:


> Anyone know what the direct successor is to the V281. The new Violectrics amps I tested aren’t as warm or bassy as the old ones which is a shame. The 500 series have sort of lost they’re tube like quality.


Get a V226 or V340/80, you'll love them.


----------



## Shane D

Ichos said:


> It is the V222.


Wasn't that for V280? Or do you consider the V280/V281 the same?


----------



## Arniesb

Shane D said:


> Wasn't that for V280? Or do you consider the V280/V281 the same?


It is the same, Before buying V280 some time ago, Fried told me that both are are the same - preamp capability.


----------



## Kozwoz

The V222 is not being produced anymore. At least I can’t find it new online. Anything in the current lineup?


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 26, 2022)

Kozwoz said:


> The V222 is not being produced anymore. At least I can’t find it new online. Anything in the current lineup?


It is about to be brought out. It is a new model which was scheduled for a “mid-October” arrival. See:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/violectric-v222-and-v202.963504/post-16974519 .


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Shane D said:


> Wasn't that for V280? Or do you consider the V280/V281 the same?


The V280 and 281 are the same except for preamp capability on the V281 as @Arniesb mentioned, and the power supply on the V281 is a bit more robust.

Both have add-in DAC cards but I think the V281's is also better. I haven't seen anybody use the DAC card on a V280.


----------



## Kozwoz (Oct 26, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> It is about to be brought out. It is a new model which was scheduled for a “mid-October” arrival. See:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/violectric-v222-and-v202.963504/post-16974519 .


Do you know if either of these will have pre-amp capability. As in XLR out?

Edit: Ok just checked... no it doesn’t. I’ve had a look at their forthcoming lineup and they don’t have an amp with pre-amp capability that has balanced in and out - which is what I need. Don’t need a DAC... The V340 does have balanced out though but a shame no balanced input.

You would need to go all the way up to V590 for balanced in and out but eye watering price.


----------



## Pharmaboy

FinHifi said:


> But if you prefer clinical sound, i can see the appeal


_(longtime V281 owner here)_

Many people actually _do_ prefer forensic, clinical-sounding audio gear. One of the 1st things I learned about audio years ago was I'd better check for myself whether a contemplated audio purchase sounded like music (or a dental drill) before buying.

Nothing about human perception is surprising because nothing about human nature is surprising, either. Some people hire other people to inflict pain on them, and neither party is insane (I rest my case).


----------



## Ichos

Shane D said:


> Wasn't that for V280? Or do you consider the V280/V281 the same?


From what I remember the V281 was slightly more powerful but the internal amplifier circuit was the same.

The V222 is the successor but of course not the same amplifier.
Now there is only one transformer and the circuit from what I know is slightly improved/tweaked.

The V551 is the amplifier with two transformers but the sound is definitely different than the V280/281.


----------



## Ichos

Kozwoz said:


> Do you know if either of these will have pre-amp capability. As in XLR out?
> 
> Edit: Ok just checked... no it doesn’t. I’ve had a look at their forthcoming lineup and they don’t have an amp with pre-amp capability that has balanced in and out - which is what I need. Don’t need a DAC... The V340 does have balanced out though but a shame no balanced input.
> 
> You would need to go all the way up to V590 for balanced in and out but eye watering price.


V550 is what you are looking, not cheap though.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> Some people hire other people to inflict pain on them, and neither party is insane (I rest my case).



Two ways I could read that:

1. Thank you, but more than we needed to know 
2. Yes, this is most managers these days. The jury is still out as to whether those managers are insane but my money says yes, yes they are!


----------



## Shane D

Arniesb said:


> It is the same, Before buying V280 some time ago, Fried told me that both are are the same - preamp capability.


I have always wondered about that. I would be curious to compare a V200 to my V220. I find my V220 very warm and almost tube-like.


----------



## jonathan c

Shane D said:


> I have always wondered about that. I would be curious to compare a V200 to my V220. I find my V220 very warm and almost tube-like.


The V200 _to my ears_ is likewise.


----------



## Empyah

Kozwoz said:


> Do you know if either of these will have pre-amp capability. As in XLR out?
> 
> Edit: Ok just checked... no it doesn’t. I’ve had a look at their forthcoming lineup and they don’t have an amp with pre-amp capability that has balanced in and out - which is what I need. Don’t need a DAC... The V340 does have balanced out though but a shame no balanced input.
> 
> You would need to go all the way up to V590 for balanced in and out but eye watering price.


To the V550.*


----------



## FinHifi (Oct 30, 2022)

Previous V281 owners, what was the next Step or what did you switch to and why?
Trying to get some other options to v281 or v280, which is a strong candidate to be my next amp


----------



## Pharmaboy

FinHifi said:


> Previous V281 owners, what was the next Step or what did you switch to and why?
> Trying to get some other options to v281 or v280, which is a strong candidate to be my next amp


To get the equivalent of the V281 (balanced amp/preamp), you'll have to migrate to Violectric's next-to-highest new model, the V550 (which can be had w/a built-in DAC as the V590). These are not cheap; they're wider than the V281; and are described as sounding somewhat "more neutral" than the V281 (everyone interprets that differently...I don't welcome it).

But if you could settle for the preamp-less V280 before, Violectric is now selling a new amp that's very similar (in design and allegedly, also in sound), the V222. See Head-Fi thread on the V222 and single-ended variant, V202, below. These are priced very aggressively:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/violectric-v222-and-v202.963504/


----------



## tezla7

Hi all,

V281 came up for sale here in England.  Now mine.  I've only got about 3 hours on it so far but loving it.  I'm running it with a balanced headphone cable obviously.  This amp is fantastic.  Moderat track just came on and I had to stop typing.  Bass is huge when it should be, but somehow never over done, everything effortless, lovely frequency presentation, excellent staging, great resolution.  Feels right in all the good ways and none of the bad.

Four things:

Currently I'm running a Mojo 2.  I'm waiting on Bifrost 2/64 coming back in stock as there hasn't been any in the country for, err, maybe a year.  Question- am I best to run out of BF2 balanced into HPA V281 or single ended?  Might seem like a daft question, but, if the signal flips inside the V281 unit and prioritises SE, and BF2 outputs are not gimped either way then...dunno.  My instinct is of course to run out balanced but, thought I'd ask as internally- V281 seems to do things a bit different.

Second is, I'm not actually sure if I've got the stepped attenuator or not as there are notches, or bumps.  Doesn't make a loud noise or loud clicks as it moves, but definitely not a completely fluid alp pot.

Third is- power cables.  Believe I read in the 100s of pages someone say this amp is pretty susceptible to different power cords.  Anyone got any feedback on that?  Good results?  Ideas?  What I'm wondering is- types of cable, conductor, connectors etc.  I've got tinnitus so I don't want anything brighter.

Fourth- power consumption.  Only figure I could get was I think 40VA or something like that.  I don't know what that means.  I'm wondering how many watts it uses.  Just because if I can I prefer not to leave things on all day and energy bills aren't exactly getting any cheaper.  If it's not too high then, I'll feel better leaving it on longer.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

tezla7 said:


> V281 came up for sale here in England.  Now mine.  I've only got about 3 hours on it so far but loving it.  I'm running it with a balanced headphone cable obviously.  This amp is fantastic.  Moderat track just came on and I had to stop typing.  Bass is huge when it should be, but somehow never over done, everything effortless, lovely frequency presentation, excellent staging, great resolution.  Feels right in all the good ways and none of the bad.



Never saw any unfavorable comments about these.



tezla7 said:


> Currently I'm running a Mojo 2.  I'm waiting on Bifrost 2/64 coming back in stock as there hasn't been any in the country for, err, maybe a year.  Question- am I best to run out of BF2 balanced into HPA V281 or single ended?  Might seem like a daft question, but, if the signal flips inside the V281 unit and prioritises SE, and BF2 outputs are not gimped either way then...dunno.  My instinct is of course to run out balanced but, thought I'd ask as internally- V281 seems to do things a bit different.



My preference is to use balanced whenever possible.



tezla7 said:


> Second is, I'm not actually sure if I've got the stepped attenuator or not as there are notches, or bumps.  Doesn't make a loud noise or loud clicks as it moves, but definitely not a completely fluid alp pot.



The standard version has detents.



tezla7 said:


> Third is- power cables.  Believe I read in the 100s of pages someone say this amp is pretty susceptible to different power cords.  Anyone got any feedback on that?  Good results?  Ideas?  What I'm wondering is- types of cable, conductor, connectors etc.  I've got tinnitus so I don't want anything brighter.



I have never read that about these amps at all.



tezla7 said:


> Fourth- power consumption.  Only figure I could get was I think 40VA or something like that.  I don't know what that means.  I'm wondering how many watts it uses.  Just because if I can I prefer not to leave things on all day and energy bills aren't exactly getting any cheaper.  If it's not too high then, I'll feel better leaving it on longer.



VA means volts times amps (amperes). But that value of 40 seems kinda low. Anyway, it's a solid state amp, there is no need for a long warmup. When you're done using it, turn it off.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Nov 17, 2022)

tezla7 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> V281 came up for sale here in England.  Now mine.  I've only got about 3 hours on it so far but loving it.  I'm running it with a balanced headphone cable obviously.  This amp is fantastic.  Moderat track just came on and I had to stop typing.  Bass is huge when it should be, but somehow never over done, everything effortless, lovely frequency presentation, excellent staging, great resolution.  Feels right in all the good ways and none of the bad.
> 
> ...


Glad you got a V281 and like it. It's by far my favorite amp/preamp of all.

I'm no electrical engineer, but I've read that the SE input signal is turned into a balanced signal in the V281, such that there is no real advantage to using a balanced input from the DAC. In fact, there is a real drawback to using a balanced input: you have typically double the voltage coming in vs what you would w/a SE input (example: 2 volts/SE vs 4.2 volts balanced). That excess gain is definitely felt on the volume pot. It can be adjusted away using the gain dipswitches (the headphone output dipswitches are on the back panel; the preamp output's dipswitches are inside the case)....but why add gain when it doesn't help you.

Re power cables, I never experimented--but I really should. Note-to-self: score a good/robust power cable for this amp.

Re power use, it's not a hog, but it warms up relatively quickly, so there's no need to leave it on 24/7 IMO.

PS: I'm in midst of buying a used Audio Art Classic I power cable (1.5M). I already have 2; they're my "upgrade" cable I use for amps/DACs. It's high time the V281 has one of these.


----------



## PrTv

Anybody compare V281 with Soloist 3X GT with Super Charger 5A PSU?

Now with black Friday sale, this combo is at 2,240$ on Burson's website. Wondering if there will be major improvement if I replace the V281 with the Soloist 3X. 

In particular, is the Burson has warmer tone than the V281? Which one fares better in terms of Pre-Amp functionality (XLR in / XLR Out)?


----------



## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> Glad you got a V281 and like it. It's by far my favorite amp/preamp of all.


It's taken me 16 months to realize it but now I completely agree with that statement. I was impressed with my V281 as a headphone amp and preamp but never thrilled with it. About 2 weeks ago I bought some pre-owned DH labs Revelation solid silver conductor XLR interconnects. I have them between my Gustard A22 dac and the V281. It has completely transformed both my stereo room and headphone listening. Those interconnects are so good I'm going to buy a second set to go from the V281 to my power amp, even if I have to pay full price. It's such a win-win-win for me. Now I can plug my phono preamp into the V281. And now I can use that awesome Violectric aluminum remote instead of the Roku-like piece of junk that came with the dac. And now I no longer have to squint to read the microscopic volume level on the dac. A few weeks ago I emailed the top guy at Lake People/Violectric (I think his name is Freid) and told him I love the unit but was not entirely pleased as a preamp. Even offered to send it to him if there was some kind of an upgrade available. Imagine how surprised he was to hear complaints about the preamp function. I was probably the first one that ever did. I'm going to email him back and tell him how thrilled I am now with his product. When I think now how much better listening I could have had for the last 16 months, all because of a substandard and possibly damaged set of interconnects! In my mid-60s now, I could have even gone the rest of my life not knowing what I was missing


----------



## Pharmaboy

milkdudd said:


> It's taken me 16 months to realize it but now I completely agree with that statement. I was impressed with my V281 as a headphone amp and preamp but never thrilled with it. About 2 weeks ago I bought some pre-owned DH labs Revelation solid silver conductor XLR interconnects. I have them between my Gustard A22 dac and the V281. It has completely transformed both my stereo room and headphone listening. Those interconnects are so good I'm going to buy a second set to go from the V281 to my power amp, even if I have to pay full price. It's such a win-win-win for me. Now I can plug my phono preamp into the V281. And now I can use that awesome Violectric aluminum remote instead of the Roku-like piece of junk that came with the dac. And now I no longer have to squint to read the microscopic volume level on the dac. A few weeks ago I emailed the top guy at Lake People/Violectric (I think his name is Freid) and told him I love the unit but was not entirely pleased as a preamp. Even offered to send it to him if there was some kind of an upgrade available. Imagine how surprised he was to hear complaints about the preamp function. I was probably the first one that ever did. I'm going to email him back and tell him how thrilled I am now with his product. When I think now how much better listening I could have had for the last 16 months, all because of a substandard and possibly damaged set of interconnects! In my mid-60s now, I could have even gone the rest of my life not knowing what I was missing


I have to chuckle at the idea of you complaining about the V281 to Fried. Turns out he's a patient, composed type person who doesn't over-react to things. 

I put him over a few hurdles several years ago when I was on an opamp-rolling mission w/my V281. Some of what I did (or wanted to do) was misguided. But he stayed polite and patiently answered question/comment in this thread about it. I was impressed: the last thing a designer wants to hear is that someone's going to "improve" his design using aftermarket opamps. That must be a total PITA...but he took it well & didn't blow me up. 

I think highly of Fried, Violectric/Lake People, and their U.S. distributor, Arthur Power. Collectively a class act IMO. It certainly doesn't hurt that their products are like money in the bank, operationally & sonically.


----------



## tezla7

milkdudd said:


> It's taken me 16 months to realize it but now I completely agree with that statement. I was impressed with my V281 as a headphone amp and preamp but never thrilled with it. About 2 weeks ago I bought some pre-owned DH labs Revelation solid silver conductor XLR interconnects. I have them between my Gustard A22 dac and the V281. It has completely transformed both my stereo room and headphone listening. Those interconnects are so good I'm going to buy a second set to go from the V281 to my power amp, even if I have to pay full price. It's such a win-win-win for me. Now I can plug my phono preamp into the V281. And now I can use that awesome Violectric aluminum remote instead of the Roku-like piece of junk that came with the dac. And now I no longer have to squint to read the microscopic volume level on the dac. A few weeks ago I emailed the top guy at Lake People/Violectric (I think his name is Freid) and told him I love the unit but was not entirely pleased as a preamp. Even offered to send it to him if there was some kind of an upgrade available. Imagine how surprised he was to hear complaints about the preamp function. I was probably the first one that ever did. I'm going to email him back and tell him how thrilled I am now with his product. When I think now how much better listening I could have had for the last 16 months, all because of a substandard and possibly damaged set of interconnects! In my mid-60s now, I could have even gone the rest of my life not knowing what I was missing


Cool.  Great to hear.  I love hearing stories like this.  That is a lot of money for interconnects but, hey, if it does the trick then it does the trick.  I hear lots of stories about silver and, beyond the cost, I am a bit wary of it because I do have tinnitus and some say it can make things brighter.  Others argue it does not, etc etc.  I expect a lot is in the brand, implementation, dialectic and system.  We do have someone in Manchester, England who makes these at a relatively reasonable cost and only in silver so, I might have a look.

You've made me super more curious about the whole balanced vs single ended interconnect question now in terms of if there is a signal/quality difference.  Although Pharmaboy made excellent points about extra gain and not wanting it for the sake of it, if you have the choice.  I have always only had single ended gear.  I buy my first amp with balanced inputs and the idea of not using them because the SE is "better" is a bit awkward but c'est la vie.  And thank you all for your comments.  Maybe I should send Freid an email asking about SE vs Balanced.  Or maybe I should read the instructions!  But they do seem very technical and beyond me.

I've had maybe, 15 hours+ on the amp now and I like it even more, it's a real- leave the music on amp.  In fact I do find it hard to turn the music off when I've got it on.  And that's absolutely what I'm looking for.  I listen to a massive range of music and it seems to nail it all- the hectic and the slow and sonorous.  I went down the rabbit hole on DACs and found lots of debate about the new Bifrost 2/64 vs old.  I missed a good deal on a Gungnir over here.  Now I'm thinking a Gungnir might be the way to go for smoother treble.  Sorry it's not a DAC thread, but at the moment with the Mojo 2, it does have a built in EQ which helps.  I got told to use EQ by someone else with tinnitus in the UK, I think I'd always been stubborn about not using it and just trying to get the gear to sound right without it.  So I setup parametric EQ in Roon and it sounded fantastic.  Then I started to notice digital noise in the music, and bad noise, digititus.  And it's not CPU load as my laptop is running it fine, I checked that.  And I'm running a Zen Stream, so that should be sorting hardware noise issues for the most part.  Switched the Roon EQ off and it was gone so... it would be costly to buy a good DAC and then have to buy a preamp to attenuate any issues or buy another DAC.  Maybe I should try and figure out what's causing the Roon EQ issue.


----------



## borkenarrou

Anyone have any experience ordering from Thomann, is import taxes charged for tax free state like Oregon, I know power-holding will be better for warranty and post warranty service, but I'll ultimately take it out of the US so its not too benefical for me and I can take advantage of slightly lower price at Thomann.


----------



## milkdudd

I haven't had a chance to read all the posts yet, I'll do that later. But for now I can tell you I keep my V281 powered on all the time. To me it seems to take two days or more to sound it's best. For that matter I think it keeps sounding better even after that, even as much as a week or two. I admit that part could be my imagination. But as they say, perception is reality!


----------



## jonathan c

milkdudd said:


> I haven't had a chance to read all the posts yet, I'll do that later. But for now I can tell you I keep my V281 powered on all the time. To me it seems to take two days or more to sound it's best. For that matter I think it keeps sounding better even after that, even as much as a week or two. I admit that part could be my imagination. But as they say, perception is reality!***


*** Take note, Amir !


----------



## gshyoung

I’m planning to connect my Hugo2 to the V281 when it arrives.

In terms of volume control, which device should I be using to set the volume?  I plan to use the V281 to drive headphones exclusively.

Should I set line out 3V on the H2 into the V281 and use the latter’s volume control exclusively?


----------



## milkdudd

gshyoung said:


> I’m planning to connect my Hugo2 to the V281 when it arrives.
> 
> In terms of volume control, which device should I be using to set the volume?  I plan to use the V281 to drive headphones exclusively.
> 
> Should I set line out 3V on the H2 into the V281 and use the latter’s volume control exclusively?


The following is taken from an email that Fried (the top guy at Lake People/Violectric as I understand it) sent me a couple of months ago on this subject

"The overall quality of the V281 used as a preamp is praised by may users.
However, care should be taken concerning the input/output level of the different devices in the chain.
You should adjust the output level from the DAC in a way that is matches the capabilities of V281 and the power amp.
I would suggest to try differing output levels of the DAC so that the volume control of V281 is positioned around 12 o´clock for “normal” listening.
You can also vary the line output level from V281 by internal dip-switches.
Please see the manual to learn more"


----------



## gshyoung

milkdudd said:


> The following is taken from an email that Fried (the top guy at Lake People/Violectric as I understand it) sent me a couple of months ago on this subject
> 
> "The overall quality of the V281 used as a preamp is praised by may users.
> However, care should be taken concerning the input/output level of the different devices in the chain.
> ...


Thanks so much, this is very helpful


----------



## milkdudd

gshyoung said:


> Thanks so much, this is very helpful


With the above from my previous post said, in my case I have a Gustard A22 dac and I leave it at the full volume it can produce. By pure luck that has my volume control on the V281 at 12 o'clock as he suggested when producing optimum volume for my stereo room. I use my V281 mostly as a preamp in my stereo system. However I do some headphone listening and soon will adjust the dip switches so the volume knob is also at 12 o'clock for headphone listening


----------



## Shane D

milkdudd said:


> The following is taken from an email that Fried (the top guy at Lake People/Violectric as I understand it) sent me a couple of months ago on this subject
> 
> "The overall quality of the V281 used as a preamp is praised by may users.
> However, care should be taken concerning the input/output level of the different devices in the chain.
> ...


It really is a great pre-amp. I used it to make my XDuoo MT-602 more listenable. After adjusting the dip switches inside. 
The XDuoo has really high gain.


----------



## joseG86

Shane D said:


> It really is a great pre-amp. I used it to make my XDuoo MT-602 more listenable. After adjusting the dip switches inside.
> The XDuoo has really high gain.


Hi there!

I've started to read this amazing thread, I'm looking for a V281 230v, I could trade for Sparkos Aries

If you wanna get rid of your unit or try something like the Sparkos Aries let me know!

Thanks to @Pharmaboy for his inestimable help <3


----------



## Shane D

joseG86 said:


> Hi there!
> 
> I've started to read this amazing thread, I'm looking for a V281 230v, I could trade for Sparkos Aries
> 
> ...


To clarify, I don't have a V281. I have a V220, which is a stripped down version (less power and no balanced out).

I will be keeping it for the long haul. In the coming weeks, I am going to compare my tube amp head to head and I think the (much cheaper) tube amp will likely lose and I will likely move it on.

Also, I am in Canada so the voltage is 115/120V.

Happy hunting though!


----------



## mcgo

I have the V280 paired with stock HD800 and a nice Neutrik XLR4 plug. The pairing is one of those “cold dead hands” situations.

Where the fun is for me is swapping sources and going deeper down the rabbit hole of DSD and specifically transfers from tape… DSD256 from analogue tape - OMG.


----------



## Pharmaboy

mcgo said:


> The pairing is one of those “cold dead hands” situations.


(funny!)


----------



## jonathan c (Dec 5, 2022)

_Die Gotter haben gelachelt !  _I have found / purchased a Violectric HPA V281 (black, no DAC) from a highly-rated seller, as original owner, who has only logged a few hours use. A wondrous sibling to my HPA V200 (at ‘mountain abode’). A long time in coming! I foresee _some_ h/p/a culling ‘chez moi’. 🤣🤪🤣  EDIT:  culling in part to fund the purchase; but more to trim the h/p/a ‘topology roster’: HYB vs OTC vs OTL vs SS vs ZOTL…🤔


----------



## Shane D

jonathan c said:


> _Die Gotter haben gelachelt !  _I have found / purchased a Violectric HPA V281 (black, no DAC) from a highly-rated seller, as original owner, who has only logged a few hours use. A wondrous sibling to my V200 (at ‘mountain abode’). A long time in coming! I foresee _some_ h/p/a culling ‘chez moi’. 🤣🤪🤣


That must have been a pretty penny! Congrats.


----------



## Pharmaboy

jonathan c said:


> _Die Gotter haben gelachelt !  _I have found / purchased a Violectric HPA V281 (black, no DAC) from a highly-rated seller, as original owner, who has only logged a few hours use. A wondrous sibling to my V200 (at ‘mountain abode’). A long time in coming! I foresee _some_ h/p/a culling ‘chez moi’. 🤣🤪🤣


Bombshell news! I couldn't make do w/o my V281...


----------



## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> Bombshell news! I couldn't make do w/o my V281...


If anybody wanted mine, we're right back at that cold dead hands expression!


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Long live the V281/V280 ! The unique sound signature from these models are so good and popular among people like us that Violectric has recently decided to bring them back in the form of V222/V202.


----------



## jonathan c

milkdudd said:


> If anybody wanted mine, we're right back at that cold dead hands expression!


You must have _big _cold dead hands! Lots of stuff to hang onto…💀🧤…🤣


----------



## milkdudd

jonathan c said:


> You must have _big _cold dead hands! Lots of stuff to hang onto…💀🧤…🤣


Fairly big, often cold, but not quite dead yet! 🥴


----------



## milkdudd

Like many, she's even prettier topless!


----------



## tezla7

Pharmaboy said:


> Glad you got a V281 and like it. It's by far my favorite amp/preamp of all.
> 
> I'm no electrical engineer, but I've read that the SE input signal is turned into a balanced signal in the V281, such that there is no real advantage to using a balanced input from the DAC. In fact, there is a real drawback to using a balanced input: you have typically double the voltage coming in vs what you would w/a SE input (example: 2 volts/SE vs 4.2 volts balanced). That excess gain is definitely felt on the volume pot. It can be adjusted away using the gain dipswitches (the headphone output dipswitches are on the back panel; the preamp output's dipswitches are inside the case)....but why add gain when it doesn't help you.
> 
> ...


Did you try any different power cables on the V281 my good man?

I tried out a latest spec Schiit Gumby MB with balanced cables.  Superior DAC to the Mojo 2- more detail, better layering.  However, bass felt softer, less kick, transients not quite right and too much shoulder- bit too harsh in the upper midrange (I have tinnitus and can't handle it too much around 4k).  I really like the EQ on the Mojo 2, bit more bass, bit less 3k/4k.  Works great.  And when I used EQ in Roon, it sounded better but I got digititus in the music, digital artifacts, so, I didn't like that, maybe I've got the settings wrong or it was a software issue .  I do think Chord will be putting an EQ in future stuff as their previous filters didn't really do much to the sound.  The snob in me thinks I should have a desktop DAC in a desktop system, but my wallet and my ears are trying to tell me to stop being silly.

I also got an email back from Fried- who is as fantastic to correspond with as everyone has already said.  Lovely guy, makes me feel even better about owning a V281.  Fried did confirm that there is a BAL/SE flip inside the amp but he said it is good to use balanced connections for input/output if you can do- for grounding issue reasons.

When I've got some spondoolies I do have to look at some headphones- I tend to get pre-occupied with DACs, amps and power and not cans.  I like cans that are dynamic, a bit warmer and easy in the 4k region.  Something like the Focal Elear but better would be great.  Read good things about Kennerton Gjallarhorn.  Sadly they're not well known in the UK though so if they didn't work out, it'd be hard to sell.  Meze Empyrean look very interesting- I've heard some complain they are a bit _too_ laid back.  Also the Meze 109 Pro, except there are a few people saying they can be a bit bright.  I did enjoy the Meze 99 Classics.  I do like the timbre of dynamic drivers.  The one type of planars I listened to years ago was some Mr Speakers Aeons and, something about the timbre I didn't like as much as the Focal drivers/dynamic drivers.  But I think planars have come a long way since then and there's lots of different types of planars.


----------



## Monsterzero

jonathan c said:


> _Die Gotter haben gelachelt !  _I have found / purchased a Violectric HPA V281 (black, no DAC) from a highly-rated seller, as original owner, who has only logged a few hours use. A wondrous sibling to my HPA V200 (at ‘mountain abode’). A long time in coming! I foresee _some_ h/p/a culling ‘chez moi’. 🤣🤪🤣  EDIT:  culling in part to fund the purchase; but more to trim the h/p/a ‘topology roster’: HYB vs OTC vs OTL vs SS vs ZOTL…🤔


So you're the one who snagged it! Urgghhh, well at least it went to a good home.

I'm in the market for a clean v281. If anyone here is looking to move theirs drop me a message.


----------



## Pharmaboy

tezla7 said:


> Did you try any different power cables on the V281 my good man?
> 
> I tried out a latest spec Schiit Gumby MB with balanced cables.  Superior DAC to the Mojo 2- more detail, better layering.  However, bass felt softer, less kick, transients not quite right and too much shoulder- bit too harsh in the upper midrange (I have tinnitus and can't handle it too much around 4k).  I really like the EQ on the Mojo 2, bit more bass, bit less 3k/4k.  Works great.  And when I used EQ in Roon, it sounded better but I got digititus in the music, digital artifacts, so, I didn't like that, maybe I've got the settings wrong or it was a software issue .  I do think Chord will be putting an EQ in future stuff as their previous filters didn't really do much to the sound.  The snob in me thinks I should have a desktop DAC in a desktop system, but my wallet and my ears are trying to tell me to stop being silly.
> 
> ...


"The snob in me thinks I should have a desktop DAC in a desktop system, but my wallet and my ears are trying to tell me to stop being silly." 

IMO listen to your inner snob. The right desktop DAC makes a real difference. Once I got a non-Schitt multibit and then several NOS DACs, I never looked back. NOS is my happy place. 

As for power cables, I just picked up my 3rd gently used Audio Art Classic power cable to usieit with the V281. I _may_ be hearing a little more authority in the sound via speakers (KEF 103.2 ... an amazing vintage design) at low volumes after swapping out the thick but generic power cable for this very robust Audio Art cable. Hard to be sure. Headphone would be a better test, but I haven't done any listening that way through the V281 since getting the cable.

The power supply in the V281 is very well designed/built, also well-isolated galvanically, so I wouldn't expect transformative experiences w/power cords. But of course anything is possible.  

Had to google "spondoolies." Quite a word!


----------



## tezla7

Pharmaboy said:


> IMO listen to your inner snob.


This made me laugh out loud.  Thank you.  I do need to shift priorities to headphones next though.  Hear you on the NOS and R2R but I don't know, I think I might actually be discovering that I just like Chord DACs- blasphemous as that might sound to some.  Plus Chord are significantly cheaper here in the UK on the second hand market and very often traded.

Thank you for the feedback on power cables.  Like you've said, it may be that it's not a huge factor on the V281, but good to hear someone test that.  I think I'll try a different power cable at some point.  The standard generic one that comes with the amp is thicker than usual, I noticed that too.

Spondoolies and smackeroonies.


----------



## milkdudd (Dec 10, 2022)

tezla7 said:


> Spondoolies and smackeroonies.


I have to confess. Not knowing what either of these words meant had me feeling like a Slubberdegullionous Poltroon

Edit: perhaps I should have said a Poltroonish Slubberdegullion

Any English majors out there know which is correct?


----------



## tezla7

Bravo.  Hats off to that- nice words, nice digging.  I enjoyed searching for what they meant, although poltroon did have a somewhat familiar ring to it, but I had no idea what it meant.  Feels like it derives from the word buffoon and French word poulet.  They sound out of the lexicon- old.  Internet says: slubberdegullion- 1610s, poltron- 1520s https://www.etymonline.com/word/poltroon#etymonline_v_17591 fair play to you my good man for digging back 400 years.  Impressive.
I'd guess the adjective before the noun in most cases in which case- poltroon slubberdegullion being more likely grammatically correct.  Wow what a phrase that is.

What a wonderful tangent.

Despite the fact that I've got a good £2000 to pay off from my V281 and power conditioner, and energy prices in England are getting comical, I might try and leapfrog a Qutest on the next upgrade and go for a Chord TT2 if one turns up second hand for a good price.  Probably look for headphones first though.  My habit is too big for my wallet.  Loving the Chord Mojo 2 back into the V281.  The digital EQ works great and being able to attenuate the gain on the Mojo knowing it's not a signal degradation- is also great.


----------



## milkdudd

tezla7 said:


> Bravo.  Hats off to that- nice words, nice digging.  I enjoyed searching for what they meant, although poltroon did have a somewhat familiar ring to it, but I had no idea what it meant.  Feels like it derives from the word buffoon and French word poulet.  They sound out of the lexicon- old.  Internet says: slubberdegullion- 1610s, poltron- 1520s https://www.etymonline.com/word/poltroon#etymonline_v_17591 fair play to you my good man for digging back 400 years.  Impressive.
> I'd guess the adjective before the noun in most cases in which case- poltroon slubberdegullion being more likely grammatically correct.  Wow what a phrase that is.
> 
> What a wonderful tangent.
> ...


See post # 5,278 for advice on setting the volume of each device. It has information that came directly from Fried in Germany (the Grand Poobah of Violectric)


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Dec 10, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> See post # 5,278 for advice on setting the volume of each device. It has information that came directly from Fried in Germany (the Grand Poobah of Violectric)


If you can provide a link that would be helpful. 

updated, ok I found it. Anyway that information has nothing to with sound quality, but how to get the amp to live with sensitive headphones.

Sources running at 0 dB and controlling volume at the amp are the best, safest way to operate.


----------



## milkdudd

gimmeheadroom said:


> If you can provide a link that would be helpful.
> 
> updated, ok I found it. Anyway that information has nothing to with sound quality, but how to get the amp to live with sensitive headphones.
> 
> Sources running at 0 dB and controlling volume at the amp are the best, safest way to operate.


That's exactly how I do it. And by pure dumb luck it has my V281 volume knob straight up at 12:00 at my normal listening volume. If it didn't I would adjust the internal dip switches until that happened


----------



## gimmeheadroom

milkdudd said:


> That's exactly how I do it. And by pure dumb luck it has my V281 volume knob straight up at 12:00 at my normal listening volume. If it didn't I would adjust the internal dip switches until that happened


The V280 has so much power I don't have a good range of control on most of my cans even running -12 dB. It's hard to run a pair of HE6SE V2 and TH900 MK2s off the same amp 

I need to rework my desktop setup...


----------



## Pharmaboy

milkdudd said:


> I have to confess. Not knowing what either of these words meant had me feeling like a Slubberdegullionous Poltroon
> 
> Edit: perhaps I should have said a Poltroonish Slubberdegullion
> 
> Any English majors out there know which is correct?


I just have to point out that when your screenname is "Milkdudd," you don't have to know what any of these words mean. You exist on a higher plane!


----------



## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> I just have to point out that when your screenname is "Milkdudd," you don't have to know what any of these words mean. You exist on a higher plane!


Well if I think I'm brilliant but I'm not, is that artificial intelligence? And to stay on topic, with all the success the SR purple fuses have had with my Gustard dac, DDC and external clock I was surprised when Fried said the V281 will not benefit from a "sophisticated fuse" as he called it


----------



## jonathan c

More than settling in…🙂🥲🤪…:


----------



## Pharmaboy

milkdudd said:


> is that artificial intelligence?


No. It's artificial self-esteem. I have both, so I can say dumbass stuff like this.


----------



## jonathan c

…is it me, or… does the occurrence of artificial intelligence pale versus that of natural stupidity?… 🤔 vs 🥴 …


----------



## jonathan c

Pharmaboy said:


> No. It's artificial self-esteem. I have both, so I can say dumbass stuff like this.


….and with that artificial self-esteem, be _proud _of that ‘stuff’…🤣


----------



## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> No. It's artificial self-esteem. I have both, so I can say dumbass stuff like this.


With all of that in your favor you could be a president, prime minister, emperor or even a game show host


----------



## gimmeheadroom

milkdudd said:


> With all of that in your favor you could be a president, prime minister, emperor or even a game show host


Now now, let's keep it friendly


----------



## milkdudd

gimmeheadroom said:


> Now now, let's keep it friendly


Sorry, I spoke without thinking it through. Game show host is probably still out of reach


----------



## jonathan c

milkdudd said:


> Sorry, I spoke without thinking it through. Game show host is probably still out of reach


…don’t rule out amazing talent judge!…🙂


----------



## jonathan c

After a mix of intensive and of relaxed listening sessions via V281 with a variety of headphones, my solid-state search is over! The V281 dynamics, ease, finesse, power, rhythm & staging are plainly evident. ‘Nuff said!


----------



## Pharmaboy

jonathan c said:


> After a mix of intensive and of relaxed listening sessions via V281 with a variety of headphones, my solid-state search is over! The V281 dynamics, ease, finesse, power, rhythm & staging are plainly evident. ‘Nuff said!


I couldn't agree more. The V281's sound is solid state done right (IMHO).


----------



## AudioPowerHead

jonathan c said:


> After a mix of intensive and of relaxed listening sessions via V281 with a variety of headphones, my solid-state search is over! The V281 dynamics, ease, finesse, power, rhythm & staging are plainly evident. ‘Nuff said!


My search for SS amp was done long ago with the V280. Think we all had make the right choice with the V281/280; regardless of price.

I have recently ventured into tube amps and while I am learning and discovering new sound signatures, I never get tired of the familiar and organic sweet tubey sound from my powerful Violectric.


----------



## tezla7

Good hearted group this one, with interesting tangents.


jonathan c said:


> After a mix of intensive and of relaxed listening sessions via V281 with a variety of headphones, my solid-state search is over! The V281 dynamics, ease, finesse, power, rhythm & staging are plainly evident. ‘Nuff said!


Could be wrong but have I seen your setup in the Gilmore Lite MK2 thread?  Only ask because I came directly from a Gilmore Lite MK2 to the V281 after putting in a power conditioner that made things more lean.  Love the Gilmore, but the V281 is in a completely different league.


AudioPowerHead said:


> I have recently ventured into tube amps


I love tube amps but after the last time I said, never again....(until next time!) incredibly intoxicating magic, but I also had lots of issues, noise, tube issues, more to mess about with...  Close as I can get to tubes, with all the solid state benefits is my current direction.


milkdudd said:


> with all the success the SR purple fuses


I smile when people mention fuses, last time I dabbled and realised it was yet another rabbit hole and I was looking at £120 (SR) fuses, I sold my whole system as things felt like there were really getting out of hand.  5 years later and I'm back at it, but, think I'll leave the fuses till last.

I was chatting with a well known power conditioning engineer/designer here in England and asked what fuse he had in his really expensive cable he was selling.  He answered that he was an engineer.  He was politely trying to tell me that I was an idiot and fuses don't make any difference.  Several years later I noticed their company specifically mentioning that their new fancy cable uses a specific fuse.  And now I can see he's upgraded his cable connectors to decent ones, rather than only focusing on the cable material and design.  In my experience, fuses can almost make as much difference as the actual cable, in my very limited experience, in my system, with my cables.

The part that makes me smile is, it seems to me if you really want to wind up the objectivists, the measurement obsessives, a plug is a plug, all cables are the same, everything I haven't tried doesn't make any difference- make them really go nuts, fuses gotta be one of the best subjects.  Having said all that, there are plug fuses (which I have dabbled with) and internal fuses (which I haven't), and I'm sure that's another aspect that adds variability/influence.

I don't know how many hours I've got on my V281 now but more than enough for the honeymoon period to be over.  100s of hours, maybe 3 weeks of use.  I still feel the same.  It's fantastic.  And that's the sound quality.  The actual using of the amp, the tactility, how solid it is, the switches etc- it's fantastic.


----------



## jonathan c

I have a Gilmore Lite II with the Golden Reference psu. That is at our ‘mountain abode’ with Violectric V200.


----------



## Pharmaboy

tezla7 said:


> It's fantastic. And that's the sound quality. The actual using of the amp, the tactility, how solid it is, the switches etc- it's fantastic.


+++

Every word is true.


----------



## milkdudd

As I have mentioned here a few times, I use my V281 F.E. at least 95% of the time as a preamp. Occasionally for headphones. If it was only a preamp I would still think it's more than worth the price. The fact that it comes with a terrific headphone amp, a beautiful machined aluminum extremely responsive remote (and a usable if needed DAC) makes this a ridiculously good purchase. And on top of that it looks beautiful and doesn't take up a lot of space. Viva la Violetric! (lebe lang und in Frieden?)


----------



## jonathan c

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/grado-fan-club.530965/post-17305169


----------



## Koren

I really don't understand something... as it turned out in the past few days, because I misinterpreted the manual, the output of the dac line was all turned on, in the above position, because I thought it was turned off, but a few days ago it turned out that it was turned on... actually, now my problem is the fact that I turned them all off, so the preamp is turned off at the moment, and my active speakers, which are on the xl output, started humming... and it never hummed before, it didn't make any noise... how is this possible? and if we set all the switches in the program to the above position, i.e. on, what actually happens??? because the MANUAL does not write anything about this. there can be no ground loop because it was not connected to any of the power distributors, nor was it connected to any of the power cables.. I am sure that this phenomenon depends on the setting of the preamp... I just can't understand that since they are all switched off now, it is in off mode and right now my system is behaving badly... here is a picture of the current setup.(dha v590 mk2


----------



## Shane D (Dec 25, 2022)

Koren said:


> I really don't understand something... as it turned out in the past few days, because I misinterpreted the manual, the output of the dac line was all turned on, in the above position, because I thought it was turned off, but a few days ago it turned out that it was turned on... actually, now my problem is the fact that I turned them all off, so the preamp is turned off at the moment, and my active speakers, which are on the xl output, started humming... and it never hummed before, it didn't make any noise... how is this possible? and if we set all the switches in the program to the above position, i.e. on, what actually happens??? because the MANUAL does not write anything about this. there can be no ground loop because it was not connected to any of the power distributors, nor was it connected to any of the power cables.. I am sure that this phenomenon depends on the setting of the preamp... I just can't understand that since they are all switched off now, it is in off mode and right now my system is behaving badly... here is a picture of the current setup.(dha v590 mk2


I have an older amp with no DAC, the V220. And they make great pre-amps.

According to your pictures, your headphone out gain is set at 0 and your pre-amp output is set at +6. Then you just have to set, using the front panel, whether to send the pre-amp output through SE or XLR ports.

At least that is I how I do it on my older, DAC-less amp.

PS: you might get more specific help on threads for the newer models.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

A lot has been said previously, but let me confirm or refute nevertheless, please.

I am interested in the line-out. My questions:

Is it good enough to drive power (“main“) amps, even when these are monos located at the loudspeakers, i.e. a standard (1/2 stereo base) distance away from the V281? Even more so when there are two monos on either side (bi-amping, cabled with y-splitter)? Good enough meaning to preserve dynamics, resolution, imaging etc.
How about active speakers?
Related: The manual calls it a line buffer. Anybody know what driving capability it has? Better use balanced line-out?
Do the line-out gain switches provide a sufficient setting such that there is not much of a difference in the volume pot settings between headphone out and line-out post-fader?
Any other recommendations regarding the line-out?

Thanks a lot in advance.


----------



## 111MilesToGo

111MilesToGo said:


> A lot has been said previously, but let me confirm or refute nevertheless, please.
> 
> I am interested in the line-out. My questions:
> 
> ...


Addendum:

Can the V281 be considered a ”real“ preamp for a home stereo, except for missing a versatile source selector?


----------



## milkdudd

111MilesToGo said:


> Addendum:
> 
> Can the V281 be considered a ”real“ preamp for a home stereo, except for missing a versatile source selector?


Quick answer, absolutely. That's what I use mine for. You will need very good interconnects between your source (dac in my case) and the V281. I recently upgraded to DH labs Revolution XLR's. A bit pricey but worth every penny. I even bought a second set to go between the V281 and my power amp. They do come up on the used market from time to time. In fact there's a 2m long set right now that I saw somewhere. As you mentioned it's limited as to inputs, but if you can live with that I doubt you'll do better for a preamp. And having the internal dip switches to adjust gain is nice. As for the volume control, mine is the non-stepped one with the aluminum remote. I'm a fanatic for getting the exact volume I want. The quickest I can push the button on the remote and release it (probably about a tenth of a second) and it responds. Even if I spent several thousand for a different preamp I wouldn't expect anything more than additional inputs and outputs. It's my end game preamp


----------



## Pharmaboy (Jan 6, 2023)

111MilesToGo said:


> A lot has been said previously, but let me confirm or refute nevertheless, please.
> 
> I am interested in the line-out. My questions:
> 
> ...


FWIW, for nearly 6 years I've used my V281 as a preamp ~12 hrs/day, 7 days/week. While it's a home office/desktop system, it's a very elaborate one that has electronics of the quality I would use in a 2-channel system in my living room:

Marchand XM44 electronic crossover to split the preamp's output to the speaker amp [>70 Hz] and the powered sub [<70 hz]
Wyred4Sound ST-500 class D amplifier (250 wpc/8 ohms; 500 wpc/4 ohms)
Vintage KEF 103.2 speakers (8" woofer, 1" silk dome tweeter)
JLAudio e110 subwoofer
While it's true the V281 has limited switching capability (I run RCA interconnect to it from the DAC, so there's a single source), the sound is perfectly in line with other high-end gear I used in the past. All I can tell you is that when I crank this system, it revs up like a Maserati and sounds terrific at higher volumes.

That's just the current system. I've also had a series of powered speakers here, and the V281 did just as well with those -- though none of them could compare to the passives I've had here (KEFs; ATC SCM12 Pro's; Aerial Acoustics 5Bs).

I've never used this with balanced out. Theoretically balanced cables can be driven longer than single-ended. Then again, the conventional wisdom always was "go long on interconnects and short w/speaker cables." In past systems I had RCA interconnect runs of 30 ft  with no audible degredation. Unless you'll have extremely long runs, I doubt choice of balanced vs single-ended preamp output interconnect matters much (though it certainly matters more when those wires reach the amplifier). 

*Net/net:* If you don't need to switch other source devices, go ahead and use the V281 as a preamp. It's plenty good for that.

PS-1: Re "line buffer," IMHO you have to grade the manual on a curve--it's translated from German. And if you're really concerned about this, just drop Violectric an email with your question.

PS-2: I never obsessed much over pricey interconnects. I have a mix of well-reviewed but not extreme $$ interconnects from various vendors (Signal Cable; Transparent Wire; Audioquest). The speaker cables are Audioquest Type 4 (soon to be upgraded).


----------



## AudioPowerHead

Pharmaboy said:


> All I can tell you is that when I crank this system, it revs up like a Maserati and sounds terrific at higher volumes.


Wow what a description ! Makes me love my Violectric amp even more now 😉


----------



## 111MilesToGo

milkdudd said:


> Quick answer, absolutely. That's what I use mine for. You will need very good interconnects between your source (dac in my case) and the V281. I recently upgraded to DH labs Revolution XLR's. A bit pricey but worth every penny. I even bought a second set to go between the V281 and my power amp. They do come up on the used market from time to time. In fact there's a 2m long set right now that I saw somewhere. As you mentioned it's limited as to inputs, but if you can live with that I doubt you'll do better for a preamp. And having the internal dip switches to adjust gain is nice. As for the volume control, mine is the non-stepped one with the aluminum remote. I'm a fanatic for getting the exact volume I want. The quickest I can push the button on the remote and release it (probably about a tenth of a second) and it responds. Even if I spent several thousand for a different preamp I wouldn't expect anything more than additional inputs and outputs. It's my end game preamp





Pharmaboy said:


> FWIW, for nearly 6 years I've used my V281 as a preamp ~12 hrs/day, 7 days/week. While it's a home office/desktop system, it's a very elaborate one that has electronics of the quality I would use in a 2-channel system in my living room:
> 
> Marchand XM44 electronic crossover to split the preamp's output to the speaker amp [>70 Hz] and the powered sub [<70 hz]
> Wyred4Sound ST-500 class D amplifier (250 wpc/8 ohms; 500 wpc/4 ohms)
> ...


Thank you to you both, very reassuring and providing good advice. Great answers!

What I dubbed ”Line-out buffer“ actually is called ”Line-out signal conditioning & -12/-6/0/+6/+12 dB level adaption“ in the original German manual.


----------



## 111MilesToGo (Saturday at 5:51 AM)

Here‘s my little story behind my question about the Line-out: I‘m trying to find out which remnants of my 2-channel living room system I could sell and which I could keep for later use.

There‘s a ”real“ preamp (German AVM V3 from the 1990s) - the V281 is better and can substitute it as a preamp as per your answers. So I think I can let it go.

There are four mono power amps (two AVM M3 from the 1990s with 300 W @ 4 Ohms, and two M4 Class-A with 40 W @ 4 Ohms). I feel I shouldn‘t part with them yet, but keep them for some time in the future when I might get loudspeakers again. Best option for my old money …

Unfortunately, I cannot try a 2- channel system, since I sold my loudspeakers two years ago after I got into head-fi territory - they had grown too big on me, and room effects had taken any joy away. Unless I would borrow a pair for testing …

What I could test though is: Run the line signal from my two source branches through the V281 to my pure IEM/HP amp Cayin C9 and see how that fares. My sources are (1) digital via Chord Hugo 2, (2) vinyl LP12 via Aurora Vida phono stage; both have RCA outputs.

Just a little story …


----------



## milkdudd

111MilesToGo said:


> Here‘s my little story behind my question about the Line-out: I‘m trying to find out which remnants of my 2-channel living room system I could sell and which I could keep for later use.
> 
> There‘s a ”real“ preamp (German AVM V3 from the 1990s) - the V281 is better and can substitute it as a preamp as per your answers. So I think I can let it go.
> 
> ...


111, a couple of things I would like to comment on. While I'm convinced the V281 is a phenomenal preamp, I should say that I haven't compared it to a lot of other ones. I just know it's much better than anything else I've ever used. Have you actually done a listening test between your AVM V3 preamp and the V281? I assume you already have but if not I would do that before selling anything. The other thing I would mention (although I don't think it applies to you right now) there's a warning in the V281 manual that says you shouldn't use the XLR and RCA outputs at the same time. It mattered to me because I wanted to use XLR to my power amp and RCA to a subwoofer until I found out that wasn't a good idea. That's probably just something you might want to know for the future


----------



## 111MilesToGo

milkdudd said:


> 111, a couple of things I would like to comment on. While I'm convinced the V281 is a phenomenal preamp, I should say that I haven't compared it to a lot of other ones. I just know it's much better than anything else I've ever used. Have you actually done a listening test between your AVM V3 preamp and the V281? I assume you already have but if not I would do that before selling anything. The other thing I would mention (although I don't think it applies to you right now) there's a warning in the V281 manual that says you shouldn't use the XLR and RCA outputs at the same time. It mattered to me because I wanted to use XLR to my power amp and RCA to a subwoofer until I found out that wasn't a good idea. That's probably just something you might want to know for the future


Thanks for your additional great advice!

Comparison between V281 and my old AVM V3: Too bad I can‘t do a like-for-like comparison right now. I have headphones only (Senn HD800S and IEMs), that‘s what my V281 is for. Headphone out from the V3 merely is one of those little add-on 6.3 mm ones from the old days. So that too would lead me to borrow some decent loudspeakers and recreate a 2-channel system with all my remnants before selling anything. Fortunately, I have a local dealer who would bear with me when I ask ”can I borrow speakers, but … hmm … I won‘t buy right now.“

And yeah, I read that warning in the manual. Thanks!


----------



## 111MilesToGo

111MilesToGo said:


> Thanks for your additional great advice!
> 
> Comparison between V281 and my old AVM V3: Too bad I can‘t do a like-for-like comparison right now. I have headphones only (Senn HD800S and IEMs), that‘s what my V281 is for. Headphone out from the V3 merely is one of those little add-on 6.3 mm ones from the old days. So that too would lead me to borrow some decent loudspeakers and recreate a 2-channel system with all my remnants before selling anything. Fortunately, I have a local dealer who would bear with me when I ask ”can I borrow speakers, but … hmm … I won‘t buy right now.“
> 
> And yeah, I read that warning in the manual. Thanks!


Addendum: There‘s one thing I tried previously - use the AVM V3 as an RCA input selector in front of the V281 by running the ”rec out“ or ”aux out“ (old time terminology) from the V3 into the V281; but not the amplified out from the V3 as that would be double-amping. Result: An easily audible degradation as compared to sending my source line signals directly to the V281; I don‘t know for sure why (inferior active components in that path in the V3?).

This lead me to put a passive RCA selector box in front the V281 when I like, short interconnects. In a thorough comparison with and without that box I could not detect anything bothering me. (Although I could hear the fanboys cry ”sacrilege“ … think of Chord  …)


----------



## Pharmaboy

RE "This lead me to put a passive RCA selector box in front the V281" -- the things that really matter here are:

The quality of this RCA selector box (not just cost, but quality of parts & design)
Capacitance of the interconnects connected to the passives outputs;
And input impedance of the downstream device(s) it connects to.
I played around with passives (mainly passive volume controllers) and know how variable the sonic results can be, even w/best possible parts used, because of impedance issues. The best passive I ever used is one that uses a transformer--that resolves impedance mismatches and sounds great.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Saturday at 3:25 PM)

Pharmaboy said:


> RE "This lead me to put a passive RCA selector box in front the V281" -- the things that really matter here are:
> 
> The quality of this RCA selector box (not just cost, but quality of parts & design)
> Capacitance of the interconnects connected to the passives outputs;
> ...



Fried recommended the Little Bear (I think) from Douk which I eventually bought, but have not yet tried. It switches from balanced to RCA and verse vica.


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> Fried recommended the Little Bear (I think) from Douk which I eventually bought, but have not yet tried. It switches from balanced to RCA and verse vica.


Around here, "little bear" means something totally different.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> Around here, "little bear" means something totally different.


----------



## jonathan c

🥲


----------



## milkdudd

gimmeheadroom said:


> Fried recommended the Little Bear (I think) from Douk which I eventually bought, but have not yet tried. It switches from balanced to RCA and verse vica.


Let us know your opinions of that little box when you get a chance


----------



## gimmeheadroom

milkdudd said:


> Let us know your opinions of that little box when you get a chance


Yeah sorry about being vague. I put it in the closest when the box arrived since I have other stuff going on.

When I send my Phonitor 2 back for repair I'll have more space and need the switchbox, so I should set it up in the next few weeks.


----------



## 111MilesToGo (Monday at 10:58 AM)

Progress report here:

Yeah, I used the V281 line-out for the first time. Works as it should. I did some comparisons with my Hugo 2 as source. One comparison was with the V281 LO feeding my Cayin C9 (SE) versus straight out from the Hugo 2 into the C9. These comparisons also included having my passive RCA switchbox in the signal path between Hugo 2 and V281 versus leaving it out of the game.

All these first-impression comparisons lead me to be impressed and really satisfied, nothing to complain about for now. Of course, more time is needed to arrive at an ultimate conclusion for my ears.

FWIW, my passive RCA switchbox is made by Dodocus here in Germany. It‘s the 6:1 box with remote control HERE. Nothing bad to be said about it. My interconnects are Transparent Cable (Plus Gen 6); I arrived at them not too long ago after Straight Wire (in the 1990s), a few Siltech, and a few AudioQuest. As you can see, I don‘t like to spend $,$$$‘s on one interconnect pair …

Thanks again for your support, @milkdudd and @Pharmaboy, as well as to the others coming in.

BTW: What a beauty - the inside of the V281!


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## milkdudd

111MilesToGo said:


> BTW: What a beauty - the inside of the V281!


It sure is. I'm actually getting an idea here. So many computers have a window where you can see all the gorgeous components inside. Would be cool to make a plexiglass shroud so everything inside the V281 would be visible. Or if Fried would sell me a replacement one that I could cut some windows in it. I have the F.E. model with the semi glossy finish, I don't want to butcher that one up. Then top it off with some LED lighting inside. Will probably end up another project that I never get to


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## Pharmaboy

111MilesToGo said:


> Progress report here:
> 
> Yeah, I used the V281 line-out for the first time. Works as it should. I did some comparisons with my Hugo 2 as source. One comparison was with the V281 LO feeding my Cayin C9 (SE) versus straight out from the Hugo 2 into the C9. These comparisons also included having my passive RCA switchbox in the signal path between Hugo 2 and V281 versus leaving it out of the game.
> 
> ...


Man, I had a TON of Straight Wire cables in the '80s! Still have a few shorties hanging around.

Glad you're liking the V281!


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## jonathan c

milkdudd said:


> It sure is. I'm actually getting an idea here. So many computers have a window where you can see all the gorgeous components inside. Would be cool to make a plexiglass shroud so everything inside the V281 would be visible^^ Or if Fried would sell me a replacement one that I could cut some windows in it. I have the F.E. model with the semi glossy finish, I don't want to butcher that one up. Then top it off with some LED lighting inside. Will probably end up another project that I never get to


^^ Wonderful idea!


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## gimmeheadroom

jonathan c said:


> ^^ Wonderful idea!


RME did this a while back.


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## milkdudd

gimmeheadroom said:


> RME did this a while back.


I wonder if Fried monitors this forum? Perhaps he'd be willing to build a few for our V281 "fan club"


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## DMITRIY R

milkdudd said:


> It sure is. I'm actually getting an idea here. So many computers have a window where you can see all the gorgeous components inside. Would be cool to make a plexiglass shroud so everything inside the V281 would be visible. Or if Fried would sell me a replacement one that I could cut some windows in it. I have the F.E. model with the semi glossy finish, I don't want to butcher that one up. Then top it off with some LED lighting inside. Will probably end up another project that I never get to


I saw several Burson amplifiers that were made with a transparent acrylic cover. These instances overheated very much, due to the fact that the metal surface of heat dissipation was reduced. This had a negative effect on the sound. I would prefer not to see the internal device of the amplifier, but to be sure that it has sufficient cooling and works correctly.


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## gimmeheadroom




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## DMITRIY R

gimmeheadroom said:


>


A similar window was made for the Questyle CMA600i back in 2016. But since the device was not very hot, it worked quite well with such a modification. Included with the device from the factory were two covers at once, one metal, the second made of acrylic. The user could use them alternately, depending on the mood.
Here is a link to an overview of this device -


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## gimmeheadroom

DMITRIY R said:


> A similar window was made for the Questyle CMA600i back in 2016. But since the device was not very hot, it worked quite well with such a modification. Included with the device from the factory were two covers at once, one metal, the second made of acrylic. The user could use them alternately, depending on the mood.
> Here is a link to an overview of this device -




The RME uses an external A/C adapter and vents to the sides. It doesn't seem to run hot. My Brooklyn DAC+ vents to the top, has an onboard PSU, and runs very hot.


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## milkdudd

The Best of both worlds? Transparent and slotted for cooling like this Acoustic Research preamp. Lots of possibilities. Perhaps transparent top with slots on the sides, and yes I do realize that heat rises so thanks in advance to those who would bring that to my attention


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## milkdudd

Maybe whoever talks to Fried next can ask what he thinks of this idea. I'm sure it's at least crossed his mind


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## jonathan c

milkdudd said:


> The Best of both worlds? Transparent and slotted for cooling like this Acoustic Research preamp. Lots of possibilities. Perhaps transparent top with slots on the sides, and yes I do realize that heat rises so thanks in advance to those who would bring that to my attention


Audio Research. Acoustic Research was a Cambridge, Mass. company that gave us the AR-XA turntable and the acoustic suspension sealed loudspeaker.


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## milkdudd

jonathan c said:


> Audio Research. Acoustic Research was a Cambridge, Mass. company that gave us the AR-XA turntable and the acoustic suspension sealed loudspeaker.


Thanks, I knew I should have played it safe and just referred to them as AR like everyone else does. They are known to make some quality components that's for sure. Weather worth the asking price I'm not so sure


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## Pharmaboy

milkdudd said:


> It sure is. I'm actually getting an idea here. So many computers have a window where you can see all the gorgeous components inside. Would be cool to make a plexiglass shroud so everything inside the V281 would be visible. Or if Fried would sell me a replacement one that I could cut some windows in it. I have the F.E. model with the semi glossy finish, I don't want to butcher that one up. Then top it off with some LED lighting inside. Will probably end up another project that I never get to


Great idea! 

And I still say "Milkdudd" is a terrific screen name...


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## milkdudd

Pharmaboy said:


> Great idea!
> 
> And I still say "Milkdudd" is a terrific screen name...


Thanks, it started as a little bit of a joke and took on a life of its own over the last 25 years or so. Pharmaboy is a good one too


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