# Gustard U16 - the first USB Interface featuring ESS USB chip



## mtoc

very interested in this new gear, basically I'm done with USB but USB is still by far the most convenient input


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## Whitigir

Is there a homepage for it ?


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## motberg

Whitigir said:


> Is there a homepage for it ?



https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=577443097616
http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2122902

I read through this a few days ago, it seems they will launch with 200 units in China only, before international distribution.
I would order, but the HDMI i2s output does not match Audio-GD. 
I had the previous Gustard DDC and Kingwa changed my DAC at the time to match..
We need find some photos of the finished product.. I am on the road currently but will return Sunday for the holiday week, and will have access to my full-time Chinese language search translator then


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## Whitigir

motberg said:


> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=577443097616
> http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2122902
> 
> I read through this a few days ago, it seems they will launch with 200 units in China only, before international distribution.
> ...


Can it do dsd1024  out from i2s ? Pcm 768KHz?


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## motberg

Whitigir said:


> Can it do dsd1024  out from i2s ? Pcm 768KHz?



The specs seem still very preliminary:
_Highest support for PCM 32bit/768khz and DSD512, with support for DOP and native DSD.
_


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## Whitigir

motberg said:


> The specs seem still very preliminary:
> _Highest support for PCM 32bit/768khz and DSD512, with support for DOP and native DSD._


I cant find the specifications of this ES chip...if the chip is able to do it, the firmware will more likely to be.  Though pcm 768khz is good


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## Fatdoi (Oct 18, 2018)

my concern for these interfaces is the software.... it can be difficult to sync seamlessly with streamer/pc to dac as most chifi companies just punch out the hardware with no support there after


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## motberg

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gusta...512-dop-and-native-dsd-digital-interface.html


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## rafabro

Anybody try it yet?


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## motberg

Seems to me it just started shipping, but I noticed on the Shenzhen Audio site that someone asked if the HDMI i2s pinout can be reconfigured and the answer was positive, see quote below..
_"It is possible to change I2S pins via software."_


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## rafabro

I ordered one and they shipped to me last night.
Will have direct comparison with SU-1 and DIO XLR on Dante protocol 

I2S should be configurable by soft, which is great idea. But most I am interested is SQ. Dedicated audio controller instead of standard one...


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## Chopin75

rafabro said:


> I ordered one and they shipped to me last night.
> Will have direct comparison with SU-1 and DIO XLR on Dante protocol
> 
> I2S should be configurable by soft, which is great idea. But most I am interested is SQ. Dedicated audio controller instead of standard one...


Look forward to hear from your review. If it has a DC power input, would be even better so a LPS can be used.


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## rafabro

Based on available pictures no DC input. But no problem to make it if necessary.

The matter of fact power supply design look very simple. Transformer, rectifying diodes, two caps + 5 pin Linear Technology VR (probably same as used in X20). Too simple...


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## FredA (Nov 7, 2018)

There is something mentioned in the q&a on shenzenaudio’s page as to the hdmi pinout can be configured through sw:


_Hi Pavel, 1. U16 can compatible with Holo Spring. 2. It is possible to change I2S pins via software. 3. U16 can compatibility with Linux (no drivers needed). Thank you!_


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## rafabro




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## rafabro

SU-1 looks like DIY at Gustard now. Realy nice build quality.

I2S pinout, according to pdf file attached is in auto detection mode, so no need to do anything, just plug in

So far plays 27hrs. I dont want judge SQ to early. But is smooth. More like Dante protocol, no grain like with standard USB.


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## FredA

rafabro said:


> SU-1 looks like DIY at Gustard now. Realy nice build quality.
> 
> I2S pinout, according to pdf file attached is in auto detection mode, so no need to do anything, just plug in
> 
> So far plays 27hrs. I dont want judge SQ to early. But is smooth. More like Dante protocol, no grain like with standard USB.


Interesting. Attached pdf?


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## rafabro

Have a look yourself


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## FredA

rafabro said:


> Have a look yourself


I don't see any link, sorry.


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## rafabro

FredA said:


> I don't see any link, sorry.


I added attachment but..is invisible.. 

Now, the link
https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/


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## FredA

rafabro said:


> I added attachment but..is invisible..
> 
> Now, the link
> https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/


Where do you see any reference to the i2s ouptut in the user manual?


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## motberg

rafabro said:


> SU-1 looks like DIY at Gustard now. Realy nice build quality.
> 
> I2S pinout, according to pdf file attached is in auto detection mode, so no need to do anything, just plug in
> 
> So far plays 27hrs. I dont want judge SQ to early. But is smooth. More like Dante protocol, no grain like with standard USB.



Thanks... looking forward to your further impressions...
My SU-1 was overly bright with the stock power supply, I needed to power it with DC direct to get it tamed to a listenable level.
The Tanly was smoother, but lacked some of the detail that the SU-1 offered.
These were both more refined than the former Gustard model, the Melodius, W4S and Audio-GD DDC's I owned..

Gustard looks to have put some innovative engineering into this new U16 model..

Please also comment on the driver integration if you get the chance...


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## ginetto61

motberg said:


> ...   My SU-1 was overly bright with the stock power supply, I needed *to power it with DC direct* to get it tamed to a listenable level....



Hi ! could you elaborate this interesting point ?  what did you use as DC power supply ?  Thanks a lot. gino


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## rafabro

ginetto61 said:


> Hi ! could you elaborate this interesting point ?  what did you use as DC power supply ?  Thanks a lot. gino


There is separate thread about SU-1 and is full of those informations.


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## rafabro

Another day, 49hrs now. Highs are not so sharp anymore, mids still smooth. But lower mids I would expect be fuller. Instruments still doesn't have proper mass. Vocals sounds to high.

Unfortunate Gustard used same Nichicon Muse capacitors (same as with X20) which I don't realy like. They presents to much highs, sound imbalanced. 
Obviously Gustard never listen own devices during development process...as obviously never learned...


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## ginetto61

rafabro said:


> There is separate thread about SU-1 and is full of those informations.


Thanks for the kind reply.  I will have a look immediately.  Kind regards, gino


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## KC-130

motberg said:


> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=577443097616
> http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2122902
> 
> I read through this a few days ago, it seems they will launch with 200 units in China only, before international distribution.
> ...


I have an Augio-GD R2R-1 (upgraded to R1) and use the i2s output of the U12.  The pin-out mapping on the Gustard simply has the L+R channels swapped.
When I use the i2s output of the U12 I just swap the L+R on either the Amp-Out or the Headphones L+R connections and it sounds excellent.
It may be different for your Audio-GD DAC but it's what works with mine.


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## PitBul34 (Nov 24, 2018)

Got the U16 too. Connect it to PC Win10 laptop by usb and to my Denafrips Pontus DAC via I2S. Build like a tank, ES8620 chip is very impressive! Pretty good sounding unit! Sounds better than Amanero interface, imho!


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## PitBul34




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## motberg

KC-130 said:


> I have an Augio-GD R2R-1 (upgraded to R1) and use the i2s output of the U12.  The pin-out mapping on the Gustard simply has the L+R channels swapped.
> When I use the i2s output of the U12 I just swap the L+R on either the Amp-Out or the Headphones L+R connections and it sounds excellent.
> It may be different for your Audio-GD DAC but it's what works with mine.



Wow.. thanks for the post...
Actually I also have a R1 (upgraded at the factory from a R2R-1).. so very helpful info indeed...
If you have time, it would be interesting to better understand the sound difference vs. the Amanero...

Thanks again!


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## rafabro

After all those days I am generally happy to swap SU-1 to U16. It's not perfect but of the shelf it sounds better then modified SU-1 which is impressive.

Build quality pretty good and like design as well.


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## Whitigir

I thought this used ess sabres DSP ? But it is Xmos ?


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## rafabro

Whitigir said:


> I thought this used ess sabres DSP ? But it is Xmos ?


No XMOS in it. It is some new ESS controller.


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## Whitigir

rafabro said:


> No XMOS in it. It is some new ESS controller.


Isn’t it XMOS XU-208 ?


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## rafabro (Nov 27, 2018)

No. For 100% there is no XMOS chip in it. I've checked 

The USB part is built completely different way then other solutions I've seen.


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## Whitigir

rafabro said:


> No. For 100% there is no XMOS chip in it. I've checked


Care to take me a picture of the internal ?

This is from Shenzhen


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## rafabro

Whitigir said:


> Care to take me a picture of the internal ?
> 
> This is from Shenzhen


It's Gustard U12 picture


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## rafabro

And this is U16


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## Whitigir

Oh, You are right !

Can this ES sabres do DSD1024 ? Lol


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## rafabro

I have no way to check it. I have literally only few songs in 256 and few in 128. Majorty DSD music in 64. And JRiver can upsample up to 512 max.

I've tried up-sampling in past and definitely prefer play native.


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## Whitigir

rafabro said:


> I have no way to check it. I have literally only few songs in 256 and few in 128. Majorty DSD music in 64. And JRiver can upsample up to 512 max.
> 
> I've tried up-sampling in past and definitely prefer play native.


Upsampling will only work when you have a very beefy and dedicated PC, otherwise it will be just all negatives


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## rafabro

I have dedicated PC, optimised for audio with LPS, SOTM card, changed motherboard oscillator etc..


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## Whitigir

rafabro said:


> I have dedicated PC, optimised for audio with LPS, SOTM card, changed motherboard oscillator etc..


Then you need to try the HQPlayer.

What exactly is your detailed PC build ? What oscilliators on your MB ?


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## rafabro

Low power 4 core i5 CPU (previously 2 core pentium) + 8GB ram + SOTM USB card + SOTM SATA power filter for SSD + win10 + audiofidelizer

Currently Abracon oscillator with Pulsar power VR with pre regulation on Dexa VR. Sourced on separated transformer 12V line.

But we making OT here


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## Whitigir (Nov 27, 2018)

rafabro said:


> Low power 4 core i5 CPU (previously 2 core pentium) + 8GB ram + SOTM USB card + SOTM SATA power filter for SSD + win10 + audiofidelizer
> 
> Currently Abracon oscillator with Pulsar power VR with pre regulation on Dexa VR. Sourced on separated transformer 12V line.
> 
> But we making OT here



Nothing is OT if it is all related to one another.  May I know where you source and buy your Abracon ? Source is even more important than the Bridge and the DAC itself.  When the source is not up to Par, regardless of what you throw at it, it would sound like ....

You know, chicken poop in = chicken poop out....there is no chicken poop in and chicken soup out...Nope!

Anyways, try the HQPlayer.  I had purchased most software and I can say that Jriver is pretty bad at Upsampling ...only so so in playing back Native DSD.  There is also another saying, hardware is only the bone and the body, software is the soul of it.  So, without a good program, it will be just...souless


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## rafabro

Whitigir said:


> Nothing is OT if it is all related to one another.  May I know where you source and buy your Abracon ? Source is even more important than the Bridge and the DAC itself.  When the source is not up to Par, regardless of what you throw at it, it would sound like ....
> 
> You know, chicken poop in = chicken poop out....there is no chicken poop in and chicken soup out...Nope!
> 
> Anyways, try the HQPlayer.  I had purchased most software and I can say that Jriver is pretty bad at Upsampling ...only so so in playing back Native DSD.  There is also another saying, hardware is only the bone and the body, software is the soul of it.  So, without a good program, it will be just...souless


Most of electronics I buy with Mouser, Farnel, hificollective & audiophonics.

I had a HQPlayer demo and didn't like from user perspective. It's not so intuitive as JRiver. I may give another try if SQ is worth it.

New U16 controller give much more progress than any software or hardware with XMOS before. But need very long burn-in time. I recommend 2 weeks of 24h operation, so over 300h.


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## PitBul34

rafabro said:


> But need very long burn-in time. I recommend 2 weeks of 24h operation, so over 300h.



48hrs, it's enough to understand that U16 is 'breakthrough' converter, imo.


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## rafabro

After 48h is still changing, once play nice, once with sharp highs. Very unstable first 4-5 days and then changes are smaller and slower.
But definitely, definitely I couldn't judge this device after 48hrs. After that period what I heard from U16 wasn't acceptable.


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## Whitigir (Nov 28, 2018)

rafabro said:


> Most of electronics I buy with Mouser, Farnel, hificollective & audiophonics.
> 
> I had a HQPlayer demo and didn't like from user perspective. It's not so intuitive as JRiver. I may give another try if SQ is worth it.
> 
> New U16 controller give much more progress than any software or hardware with XMOS before. But need very long burn-in time. I recommend 2 weeks of 24h operation, so over 300h.


Ah, you had Abracon, I thought it was accusillicon LoL.

Any ideas how I could get this IIS to be compatible to lks004 ?


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## Whitigir

Whitigir said:


> Ah, you had Abracon, I thought it was accusillicon LoL.
> 
> Any ideas how I could get this IIS to be compatible to lks004 ?



Never mind, I found it.  The Pins should be compatible, and since I have upgraded my Clock inside the LKS-004.  It should be scaling up


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## rafabro

Yeah, it should work with 004 and many others without a problem.


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## Whitigir (Nov 28, 2018)

Just ordered it! Honestly...couldn’t stand the Xmos or that stupid freaking Amanero any longer.....Xmos is ok, but especially that Amanero

I especially love Sabres ! LOL


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## Cortes

The only thing refraining me to get the U16 is that I want to wait to see how new sinxger SU-6 performs. 

Anyone using AES?. If so, what cable do you recommend?. I have a pair of XLR built by myself with oyaide plugs and silver occ cables, but I'm sure the impedance is not 110 Ohms.


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## Whitigir

Cortes said:


> The only thing refraining me to get the U16 is that I want to wait to see how new sinxger SU-6 performs.
> 
> Anyone using AES?. If so, what cable do you recommend?. I have a pair of XLR built by myself with oyaide plugs and silver occ cables, but I'm sure the impedance is not 110 Ohms.


What DSP chip will SU-6 be using ? I can’t find info about it


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## rafabro

Whitigir said:


> What DSP chip will SU-6 be using ? I can’t find info about it


Same as SU-1. Changes are related to clocks and power.


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## Whitigir

rafabro said:


> Same as SU-1. Changes are related to clocks and power.



Ah, the old Xmos.  Then without a doubt, I am glad I placed an order for the U16


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## Greg121986

Are you kidding me? I just bought and received a KTE tuned Singxer SU-1. Now there are others on the block? I've had an un-modded SU-1 for a few years and finally got the upgrade bug. I guess I will need an SU-6 and U16 for a shootout.


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## rafabro

I could bet that my modded SU-1 wont be worst than SU-6. Actually I think should be even better.

In this comparison U16 sounds better than my modded SU-1, so...


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## Whitigir (Nov 28, 2018)

rafabro said:


> I could bet that my modded SU-1 wont be worst than SU-6. Actually I think should be even better.
> 
> In this comparison U16 sounds better than my modded SU-1, so...


 No doubt! DSP chip is very important and in this case ES-Sabres ! I love ESS overall.  Modifications can help, but ultimately the DSP is the core of it ( I realized this by comparison between Amanero Vs Xmos)


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## Chopin75

Whitigir said:


> Nothing is OT if it is all related to one another.  May I know where you source and buy your Abracon ? Source is even more important than the Bridge and the DAC itself.  When the source is not up to Par, regardless of what you throw at it, it would sound like ....
> 
> You know, chicken poop in = chicken poop out....there is no chicken poop in and chicken soup out...Nope!
> 
> Anyways, try the HQPlayer.  I had purchased most software and I can say that Jriver is pretty bad at Upsampling ...only so so in playing back Native DSD.  There is also another saying, hardware is only the bone and the body, software is the soul of it.  So, without a good program, it will be just...souless


Agree, I find Linux OS very nice - I have Euphony OS which os Linux kernel and it plays DSD256 really nicely. I think DXD also has improved.  I cannot upsample (using HQplayer embedded) since my current Macbook is too weak, so I may be able to do that later with an upgraded computer.  I am looking for a good way to do M-ch DSD that is not too costly but find none.  Gustard-U16 may potentially be able to link 3 DACs  by using 3 of them + a master clock input.  DSD surround is superb, from my experience with SACD, beats the best 2-Ch DSD256 as the sound stage becomes so natural and instruments perfectly placed, But it is frustrating that I can't do M-ch on my M-ch DSD files,  Exasound DAC that costs $3800 is only one affordable for M-Ch DSD but I am cheap, really want something less costly.


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## Cortes

rafabro said:


> I could bet that my modded SU-1 wont be worst than SU-6. Actually I think should be even better.
> 
> In this comparison U16 sounds better than my modded SU-1, so...



What's your SU-1 mod?. Clocks, PSU?.

The U16 can also be modded: better PSU for sure, and probably an external clock (cybershaft ??) because its clocks are not fantastic. 

We have to wait and hear to compare with the SU-6. However, the SU-6 will be much more expensive than the U16.


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## rafabro

Cortes said:


> What's your SU-1 mod?. Clocks, PSU?.
> 
> The U16 can also be modded: better PSU for sure, and probably an external clock (cybershaft ??) because its clocks are not fantastic.
> 
> We have to wait and hear to compare with the SU-6. However, the SU-6 will be much more expensive than the U16.


Clocks, voltage regulators, capacitors, RF treatment, separated power from USB.

Cybershaft it's a World Clock. Those clocks only synchronise internal clocks, which are still important.
Accusilicon clocks are definitely candidate for swap. Same as voltage regulator or main caps.


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## Cortes

rafabro said:


> Clocks, voltage regulators, capacitors, RF treatment, separated power from USB.
> 
> Cybershaft it's a World Clock. Those clocks only synchronise internal clocks, which are still important.
> Accusilicon clocks are definitely candidate for swap. Same as voltage regulator or main caps.



@RAFA:

_*Those clocks only synchronise internal clocks, which are still important.
*_
This is something I don't get. External World Clock do not remove the internal clocks?. Internal clocks get slaved to the external master clocks.  Low frequency phase noise should be strongly reduced.  Or they still play a role to convert external clock frequencies?. 

*RF treatment,*

What are you using for that?. I recently bought a Tenmars TM-192D and I've got horrified  from the emissions of my valve Amp, my laptops and chargers.  Funnily the emissions of my PC PSUs (all of them expensive of high quality) are pretty decent. 

I purchased a copper strip for guitar shielding and put around some parts of my laptop: zero result.   Proper EMI/RF shielding is probably more difficult than  it seems, and definitvely requires measures to know.  I should probably try mu-metal  or some similar alloy, but it's pretty expensive.


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## rafabro (Nov 29, 2018)

Cortes said:


> @RAFA:
> 
> _*Those clocks only synchronise internal clocks, which are still important.*_
> ...Internal clocks get slaved to the external master clocks.  Low frequency phase noise should be strongly reduced.  Or they still play a role to convert external clock frequencies?.
> ...



Its exactly as you said. *Internal clocks get slaved to the external master clocks.  Low frequency phase noise should be strongly reduced.*
But still, it is clock signal to convert music as only them has proper frequency for music sample. 10M clock, lets say corrects them work.

For RF I use 3M absorbers. Use them with caution.
They may make the sound worst, so test placement and size of piece long time before apply as hard to remove them after 
I used copper tape as well but you have to put a lot and the effect is minimal. Most effective in transformer area.


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## Chopin75

rafabro said:


> Its exactly as you said. *Internal clocks get slaved to the external master clocks.  Low frequency phase noise should be strongly reduced.*
> But still, it is clock signal to convert music as only them has proper frequency for music sample. 10M clock, lets say corrects them work.
> 
> For RF I use 3M absorbers. Use them with caution.
> ...


So would adding external 10Mhz masterclock (I see the 10Mhz clock input) to clock the Gustard, would help by reducing jitter I presume >?? And should improve SQ?


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## Chopin75

Also sold on AMAZON:

https://www.amazon.com/Gustard-U16-PCM32bit-Digital-Interface/dp/B07K14H6H7


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## rafabro (Nov 29, 2018)

Chopin75 said:


> So would adding external 10Mhz masterclock (I see the 10Mhz clock input) to clock the Gustard, would help by reducing jitter I presume >?? And should improve SQ?


Yes, I would expect it so.

The best if you can synchro with your DAC as well as U16 has output option. Unfortunately my Gustard X20 DAC doesn't have WCLK input


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## Chopin75

rafabro said:


> Yes, I would expect it so.
> 
> The best if you can synchro with your DAC as well as U16 has output option. Unfortunately my Gustard X20 DAC doesn't have WCLK input


If the DAC has a Mclock input u may be able to use an external reference clock to sync both the Gustard and the DAC. My DAC, which is audio-gd, has no input clocks at all. I think if you use I2S the sync with DAC is not as important as there is less jitter with the I2S compared with USB input.


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## Whitigir (Nov 29, 2018)

Depends on the DAC design, but the I2S as shown on U16 carry the MClock, so there isn’t any need for extras ?  My LKS004 does not even use Mclock as it only uses it own and for this I had to upgrade the clock within the unit to perceive any changes or upgrades that I have within the chain

I do wonder what the pin 18 does, 3.3-5VDC must give ? What is that ?


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## Whitigir

Wow, I can’t believe they shipped it from China to Us in 2 days ? Free shipping


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## Whitigir (Nov 30, 2018)

Very well built unit, and I confirm that the stock I2S configuration works out of the box with any HDMI cables connecting into LKS004.

I am using HQPlayer and Upsampling on the fly into DSD512 via my I2S by LKS004 and it works !

    

So far I am able to run : Poly-Sinc-XTR-mp-2s by DSD512 which I was never able to run before with *Amanero or Xmos interface of any kinds....
*
_Then I am even able to found DPLL10 that works for other filters, except the very heavy load! Must be my PC limitations
 
_
_I can even run YouTube and online streaming out of Windows and upscaling it all to 384Khz ! _*Wow*!  Technically, this DSP has proven my theory about how important a DSP chip is, by interface and connecting between devices.  It is superior to the rest.

What about that sound performances ? Awesome ! Most noticeable is that upper frequencies energy retentions.  The density of upper frequencies are with great density and weight but extended well and very defined .  The back ground is more quiet, with greater details retrieval, the soundstage hugely benefit and become more immersive (and this is out of the box)...crazy....and only $285 (less than any snake oil cables) LOL! But with huge benefit and real performances gains

Eventhough I have Pinkfaun I2S and OCXO clocks, that thing is only good for PCM.  But if you want anything further, DSD and upscaling and so on, this is the way to go.

Usb Cables is Pangea
I2S-HDMI is Pangea
Power cord is DIY Solid Silver
Source is Built PC on board USB (no upgraded card yet)
DAC is LKS004 (Upgraded OCXO clock)
Toward Stax system T2 and 009S
*
  *


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## rafabro

Whitigir said:


> Wow, I can’t believe they shipped it from China to Us in 2 days ? Free shipping


Damn good courier! Great!


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## Whitigir (Nov 30, 2018)

rafabro said:


> Damn good courier! Great!



Yeah, DHl Express free shipping....even faster than domestic Postal service or UPS LoL.....


It is an awesome investment for $285.  I had been waiting for something else that is not XMOS or FPGA with ugly firmware and algorithm like Amanero for too long X_X, and I had to grab this U16 LOL

The sound quality with PCM is a huge upgrade accross the board, everything from much better bass articulation with greater dynamic, more airy and better upper frequencies


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## Cortes

@*Whitigir,
*
glad to see you are so happy, that's the goal of this hobby . 

I agree with you about the price, nothing ridiculous. It looks solid engineering giving a real upgrade at a decent price.


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## Whitigir

Cortes said:


> @*Whitigir,
> *
> glad to see you are so happy, that's the goal of this hobby .
> 
> I agree with you about the price, nothing ridiculous. It looks solid engineering giving a real upgrade at a decent price.



Comes from my own DIY experiences, the chassis itself is worth $75, the transformer itself is at least $40, the Accusilicon is at least $35 a pieces.....and whatever the heck else...Plus shipping ? I don’t even know how Gustard have this produced for $285 and free shipping

Now, I am starting to think Trade war against the Chinese is pretty stupid .....LoL


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## Cortes

well, take  $285 as a base price. I can't believe you guys won't mod .


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## Whitigir (Nov 30, 2018)

Cortes said:


> well, take  $285 as a base price. I can't believe you guys won't mod .


It is pretty much impossible to even DIY for $285...LOL

Even the clocks, I think it is more expensive than what I assumed....But for it to be able to lock in with DPLL on 07 in my LKS004 and DSD512, that is a huge thing

Found them datasheet on the clocks
http://www.accusilicon.com/AS318BM.pdf

1PPM and -165DB at 10Khz is pretty crazy but only consump 12-13mA, probably not OCXO


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## rafabro

Whitigir said:


> Comes from my own DIY experiences, the chassis itself is worth $75, the transformer itself is at least $40, the Accusilicon is at least $35 a pieces.....and whatever the heck else...Plus shipping ? I don’t even know how Gustard have this produced for $285 and free shipping
> 
> Now, I am starting to think Trade war against the Chinese is pretty stupid .....LoL


Manufacturer like Gustard wont buy one piece and pay full retail price  When you buy 1000 pcs of each item the price is waaaay lower...


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## Whitigir

rafabro said:


> Manufacturer like Gustard wont buy one piece and pay full retail price  When you buy 1000 pcs of each item the price is waaaay lower...


Yeah, I know that pretty much, but it is just crazy to produce such quality at such pricing.  The cheap labors in China is unbeatable...well may be by other countries, but not US for sure


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## fragoulisnaval

I have placed an order and waiting mine approx. December 10th. One question to existing users if I may, does anyone know if it does upsampling of the incoming signal? I have most of my music in 16/44.1, so it will be good to know if I can upsample to 24/192 through gustard….


----------



## Whitigir

fragoulisnaval said:


> I have placed an order and waiting mine approx. December 10th. One question to existing users if I may, does anyone know if it does upsampling of the incoming signal? I have most of my music in 16/44.1, so it will be good to know if I can upsample to 24/192 through gustard….



Upsampling will have to go through your PC and your software of choice.  Gustard doesn’t have a player of it own, and so it will not do so.

The only thing I know is that if you are using WASAPI, you can set upto 384Khz in Windows 10, and so all of my online streaming come out this way.  If I use HQPlayer or Jriver, I will need to set the driver and the sample rate myself


----------



## PitBul34 (Dec 1, 2018)

rafabro said:


> Accusilicon clocks are definitely candidate for swap.



Google translation from chinese: http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2122902&extra=&page=2


----------



## Whitigir

PitBul34 said:


> Google translation from chinese: http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2122902&extra=&page=2



Accusillicon is actually pretty pretty good.  The specs and precisions are about the most expensive OCXO that can do.  That is very true, accusillicon do not make small quality, even Mouser don’t stock them


----------



## Cortes

what cables are you using for the gustard?. I own an old acoustic revive USB and some DIY interconnects with with pure silver 24 gauge, and I don't know if it makes any sense to spend more into interconnects.


----------



## fragoulisnaval

Whitigir said:


> Upsampling will have to go through your PC and your software of choice.  Gustard doesn’t have a player of it own, and so it will not do so.
> 
> The only thing I know is that if you are using WASAPI, you can set upto 384Khz in Windows 10, and so all of my online streaming come out this way.  If I use HQPlayer or Jriver, I will need to set the driver and the sample rate myself



I thought that it would do a hardware upsampling, the same way that the m2tech hiface evo two does. The music software that I use does not do upsampling, furthermore I have noticed that hardware upsampling is better than software upsampling


----------



## Chopin75

Whitigir said:


> Very well built unit, and I confirm that the stock I2S configuration works out of the box with any HDMI cables connecting into LKS004.
> 
> I am using HQPlayer and Upsampling on the fly into DSD512 via my I2S by LKS004 and it works !
> 
> ...


Are u planning to try it on the the R2R7?i want to see if it beats the SU-1 or F1 internal board?!


----------



## Whitigir

Cortes said:


> what cables are you using for the gustard?. I own an old acoustic revive USB and some DIY interconnects with with pure silver 24 gauge, and I don't know if it makes any sense to spend more into interconnects.


I use Pangea, and also have diy silver cables, I will try later


----------



## Chopin75

fragoulisnaval said:


> I thought that it would do a hardware upsampling, the same way that the m2tech hiface evo two does. The music software that I use does not do upsampling, furthermore I have noticed that hardware upsampling is better than software upsampling


I thought the Evo only does upsampling if it is coming from the CD transport, not USB. The Hydra Z does hardeare upsampling


----------



## Whitigir

Chopin75 said:


> Are u planning to try it on the the R2R7?i want to see if it beats the SU-1 or F1 internal board?!


I will, but not anytime soon, since the pins are not compatible.

XMOS is a General USB chip though, where this ESS is dedicatedly made for Audio purposes


----------



## Whitigir

Cortes said:


> what cables are you using for the gustard?. I own an old acoustic revive USB and some DIY interconnects with with pure silver 24 gauge, and I don't know if it makes any sense to spend more into interconnects.



Actually, I have just compared between Pangea USB vs my DIY UP-Silver USB cables (Ultra pure Silver 18AWG per conductor x4).  There are perceived improvement in performances, but Pangea isn’t bad as it cost so very little in comparison to my DIY one.

I was previously loving Pinkfaun I2S into my LkS004 and tucked away this Cables for a while and forgot about it lol...thanks for reminding.

I also have Silver Dragon USB cables too, which is very worth buying instead of DIY, highly recommended


----------



## Chopin75

Whitigir said:


> I will, but not anytime soon, since the pins are not compatible.
> 
> XMOS is a General USB chip though, where this ESS is dedicatedly made for Audio purposes


So one needs to change the pin config, hope it won’t be too hard


----------



## rafabro

Cortes said:


> what cables are you using for the gustard?. I own an old acoustic revive USB and some DIY interconnects with with pure silver 24 gauge, and I don't know if it makes any sense to spend more into interconnects.


I use as with SU-1 so AQ Carbon USB & HDMI.
Power cable Furutech S032, fuse Synergistic Research Red


----------



## Cortes

I don't know whether this would have any benefit, but it is possible an electric isolation PC -> DAC  using  fiber and later converting to USB, with something like the ClearFog Base  https://www.solidrun.com/product/SRM6828S00D01GE008B00CE

The usb from the ClearFog Base could be plug into the Gustard U16?. A complicated way to get electric isolation, and might be even worse than a simple   jitter-prone toslink, but who knows.


----------



## Chopin75

Cortes said:


> I don't know whether this would have any benefit, but it is possible an electric isolation PC -> DAC  using  fiber and later converting to USB, with something like the ClearFog Base  https://www.solidrun.com/product/SRM6828S00D01GE008B00CE
> 
> The usb from the ClearFog Base could be plug into the Gustard U16?. A complicated way to get electric isolation, and might be even worse than a simple   jitter-prone toslink, but who knows.


Fiber meaning optic fiber?


----------



## Cortes (Dec 5, 2018)

yes, optic fiber. The idea is to change from electric propapation of the signal to light propagation in some part of the signal path to completely block  electric issues. This separatation is definitive, something like the usb galvanic isolators but taken to the highest level.

I just checked on amazon, and there is a full range by Startech of usb-> optic fiber converters

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com...=1544012954&sr=8-2&keywords=startech+sfp++usb

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com...=1544012954&sr=8-1&keywords=startech+sfp++usb


So, leaving gremmlings aside, after the optic fiber the usb signal should be with no electric noise, apart from the own  SFP->USB converter, and simply a good usb reclocker/clock should provide an ultraclean signal.


----------



## PitBul34

https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/

Latest firmware update 1.4:

V1.4 firmware update diary:


Optimized the logic of NATVIE DSD playback;


Optimized the compatibility of S/PDIF DOP output, and solved the problem that some decoders can not correctly recognize DOP signals when connecting coaxial or AES;


Solved the problem that running STEAM program may cause NATIVE DSD to be silent;


Fixed the phenomenon that the level meter will be full when the professional decoder is connected without playing music.


Fixed the stability under the MAC system;


Added WCK word clock hold function in PCM sampling state, can continue to output WCK word clock signal without playing music state;


Added the audio signal hold output function in the PCM sampling state, and can continue to output the audio signal without playing music


----------



## rafabro

Great to see they keep hand on the pulse.


----------



## Chopin75

Cortes said:


> yes, optic fiber. The idea is to change from electric propapation of the signal to light propagation in some part of the signal path to completely block  electric issues. This separatation is definitive, something like the usb galvanic isolators but taken to the highest level.
> 
> I just checked on amazon, and there is a full range by Startech of usb-> optic fiber converters
> 
> ...


Is that using USB to ethernet or vice versa? I don't see any fiber optic outpt. Or the conversion to optic is done momentarily inside the device ? There are USB and HDMI made with optical fibers which you can also use for galvanic isolation. There is supposedly some PCle card with toslink ouptput but I can 't find them. 
U need a really nice toslink, not cheap plastic to prevent jitter


----------



## Whitigir

rafabro said:


> Great to see they keep hand on the pulse.


Yeah, software is just as important as hardware.  I am glad they are working on it


----------



## Joong

Did anyone compare U16 against singxer su1?


----------



## rafabro

Joong said:


> Did anyone compare U16 against singxer su1?


Page 3?


----------



## PitBul34

Seems, this is for PS Audio I2S standard:

https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GSD U16 V1.4 0dB/GU16V1_4_PSA_0db_PS_Audio_I2S.rom


----------



## PitBul34

Firmware v.1.4 PS Audio - works pretty good and problemless with Denafrips DAC-8PRO2.

Much much better than Singxer SU-1 !


----------



## PitBul34

MSI laptop (Win7 + JetRiver player + Gustard Audio ASIO driver) to Gustard U16 v1.4 PS Audio firmware to Denafrips DAC-8PRO2 (I2S).


----------



## Whitigir

PitBul34 said:


> Seems, this is for PS Audio I2S standard:
> 
> https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GSD U16 V1.4 0dB/GU16V1_4_PSA_0db_PS_Audio_I2S.rom



Do you know where to download IIS for AudioGD compatible ?


----------



## FredA

Whitigir said:


> Do you know where to download IIS for AudioGD compatible ?


It's the same as ps-audio AFAIK.


----------



## Whitigir

FredA said:


> It's the same as ps-audio AFAIK.


Oh, so I download the above and straight plug ? Sound good! Thank you


----------



## FredA

Looking forward to getting  your listening impressions!


----------



## Whitigir

FredA said:


> Looking forward to getting  your listening impressions!


It won’t happen soon as I am in the process of moving >.<...literally a big move


----------



## FredA

Whitigir said:


> It won’t happen soon as I am in the process of moving >.<...literally a big move


Leaving your country? Just curious.


----------



## Whitigir

FredA said:


> Leaving your country? Just curious.


More like the city , no I am not a part of the Caravan ....jk


----------



## PitBul34

Gustard U16 vs Singxer SU-1. Gustard win, imo





Signal path: Asus laptop (Win10 + Foobar2000 in DSD native mode via ASIO driver) - > USB - > Converter - > I2S - > Denafrips Pontus Dac


----------



## PitBul34

Gustard U16 in PCM176 mode via I2S:


----------



## Whitigir

Yeah, no doubt U16 wins.  It is an very obvious improvement.

Xmos to me sounded much better than Amanero, and yet the U16 is an immediate upgrade in performances over Xmos.

I can’t wait for the day where these dedicated DSP chips are implemented inside flagship DAP, and expensive DAC....you know...those 20k and so on...still using Brass Pins and ribbon cables LoL!


----------



## rafabro (Dec 6, 2018)

PitBul34 said:


> Gustard U16 vs Singxer SU-1. Gustard win, imo


Can you write couple words as i am curious, are your observations similiar to my ones?

But in my case difference is not that huge as my SU-1 sounds really really good.


----------



## FredA

Dam... another 300$ down the drain! I have to get one.


----------



## PitBul34

rafabro said:


> Can you write couple words as i am curious, are your observations similiar to my ones?
> 
> But in my case difference is not that huge as my SU-1 sounds really really good.



SU-1 sounds a bit flat, less micro- & macrodynamic.


----------



## Chopin75 (Dec 6, 2018)

I am about get another R2R DAC from audio-gd for multi-channel setup. Currently I am doing R2R7 (front channel) + 2 other DAC of different brands, which still work quite nicely. I think if I use all Audio-gd DACs eventually will blend in the sound more, becoming more homogenous.  I am wondering if 3 Gustard-U16 can be used for this by clocking them all with an external master clock, and so they will sync all 3 DACs together. (I do know the Gustard is not compatible with Audio-gd)


----------



## motberg

FredA said:


> Dam... another 300$ down the drain! I have to get one.



Yep... I just placed a U16 order to try with my R1....
Thanks to everyone who has been reporting their observations.....

Has anyone seen any reference to using an external power source with the U16? (similar to the Ghent adapter for the SU-1)


----------



## rafabro

Chopin75 said:


> I am about get another R2R DAC from audio-gd for multi-channel setup. Currently I am doing R2R7 (front channel) + 2 other DAC of different brands, which still work quite nicely. I think if I use all Audio-gd DACs eventually will blend in the sound more, becoming more homogenous.  I am wondering if 3 Gustard-U16 can be used for this by clocking them all with an external master clock, and so they will sync all 3 DACs together. (I do know the Gustard is not compatible with Audio-gd)


You can choose only one audio output in time. How you gonna resolve this?


----------



## FredA

motberg said:


> Yep... I just placed a U16 order to try with my R1....
> Thanks to everyone who has been reporting their observations.....
> 
> Has anyone seen any reference to using an external power source with the U16? (similar to the Ghent adapter for the SU-1)


From the pictures, the whole power supply is on board. So it is not as simple as with the su-1. There seems to be a single rectification bridge. So one could apply the required voltage passed it. Or even before rectification i suppose, but it is not ideal. There is an optimal place where to apply the voltage TBD and maybe it would be better to chop off some components.


----------



## slex

Interesting DDC. Anyone  here own a Etir for comparison?

Love to see a future ESS dac with its own ESS USB chip.


----------



## rafabro (Dec 7, 2018)

FredA said:


> From the pictures, the whole power supply is on board. So it is not as simple as with the su-1. There seems to be a single rectification bridge. So one could apply the required voltage passed it. Or even before rectification i suppose, but it is not ideal. There is an optimal place where to apply the voltage TBD and maybe it would be better to chop off some components.


Ya, there are rectifying diodes. It would work when provide DC through them, but better avoid in this case - no need for additional noise if can be avoided.

Possibly Linear Technology regulator could be replaced with something different with lower noise and higher PSRR.


----------



## Whitigir (Dec 7, 2018)

To properly replace or upgrade the PSU in the U16....it is better if we can have a schematic, which I heavily doubt ...lol

Single board is good stuff, no pins connector

Linear tech is good stuff, Wima and Nichicon are also good stuff....I can’t find anything bad in U16


----------



## Whitigir (Dec 7, 2018)

Ok, an interesting observation now from DSD512 Upsampling vs PCM with Pinkfaun I2S and OCXO clock (Built Pc).  Using LKS004 with upgraded OCXO

1/ major problems, the DSD left and right channel is swapped on the U16....I had notified Shenzhen Audio to ask for a firmware to fix this.

2/ Pinkfaun PCM+OCXO is superior: micro dynamic, extensions, resolutions of the edges, depth projection, soundstage presentation, timbres....etc....the Pinkfaun I2S and PCM is fuller, more authentic and authoritative on dynamic slam, density of energy.  Hence the Pinkfaun I2S is ultimately more realistic than U16

If I thought Delta Sigma had this Oversaturated feeling, then using a DDC such as U16 and USB interface has vastly increased this over saturated feelings.  It is now all about the details, sharpness but not harsh or sibilant, a lot of good and fine treble without grain, but is lacking the smoothness, the fluidity and realism of depth or density and musicality of realism.

*Anyways*, *U16* *is* *still* *the* *best* *DDC* I had heard up until now

It is all could be a result of me not building or buying a Pinkfaun USB card (onboard usb now)? I am debating myself should I buy a Pinkfaun UsB card and further enlighten myself...or stick with Pinkfaun PCM...going with this option, it will be another expensive build as I will need OCXO option too....Damn this hobby...

Or I could just sell this U16 back to someone who is interested  within the US.  Any taker ?


----------



## rafabro

Whitigir said:


> To properly replace or upgrade the PSU in the U16....it is better if we can have a schematic, which I heavily doubt ...lol
> 
> Single board is good stuff, no pins connector
> 
> Linear tech is good stuff, Wima and Nichicon are also good stuff....I can’t find anything bad in U16


Nichicon Muse sound signature is the problem here. Too bright, lack of timbre and dynamics.
U16 can be even better.


----------



## FredA

Whitigir said:


> Ok, an interesting observation now from DSD512 Upsampling vs PCM with Pinkfaun I2S and OCXO clock (Built Pc).  Using LKS004 with upgraded OCXO
> 
> 1/ major problems, the DSD left and right channel is swapped on the U16....I had notified Shenzhen Audio to ask for a firmware to fix this.
> 
> ...


You have to have a clean usb signal. A usb card sure would help and perhaps the gap with your i2s board would be reduced to not much.


----------



## Whitigir

FredA said:


> You have to have a clean usb signal. A usb card sure would help and perhaps the gap with your i2s board would be reduced to not much.


Yeah, I know...I just need to decide whether sticking to I2S interface or usb ...lol


----------



## Whitigir

rafabro said:


> Nichicon Muse sound signature is the problem here. Too bright, lack of timbre and dynamics.
> U16 can be even better.


Elna will work, or even blackgate


----------



## Chopin75

rafabro said:


> You can choose only one audio output in time. How you gonna resolve this?


I just need 1 I2S output from each unit, I would need to use 3 units and clock them together with external clock


----------



## Chopin75

Whitigir said:


> Yeah, I know...I just need to decide whether sticking to I2S interface or usb ...lol


The USB allows DSD and DXD where as I2S only works on PCM. USB with OcXo clock + galvanic isolation should work very Well. Did you compare PCM only or DSD512 vs PCM?
Try doing only PCM at same rate without upsampling and see the difference.


----------



## rafabro

Chopin75 said:


> I just need 1 I2S output from each unit, I would need to use 3 units and clock them together with external clock


Physically yes. But software players run only one output in time.


----------



## Whitigir

Chopin75 said:


> The USB allows DSD and DXD where as I2S only works on PCM. USB with OcXo clock + galvanic isolation should work very Well. Did you compare PCM only or DSD512 vs PCM?
> Try doing only PCM at same rate without upsampling and see the difference.



I compared pcm vs pcm ...yeah, it is confusing...only way for sure is to compare both at it best myself..lol


----------



## FredA

Whitigir said:


> Elna will work, or even blackgate


It would be a quick an easy swap.

Were you able to fix the channel inversion issue?


----------



## Whitigir

FredA said:


> It would be a quick an easy swap.
> 
> Were you able to fix the channel inversion issue?


Nope, that is firmware issues...I don’t think they released new firmware yet


----------



## soumya.banerjee




----------



## soumya.banerjee

Received mine today after almost a month of hold by customs. Anyways, the difference even from my puny SMSL M8A via TOSLINK/Coaxial was outright mind numbing. I am not going back to USB again.
I will test out the I2S output to Holo Spring tomorrow. That will be some fun!


----------



## DACLadder

I hope the best for the U16.  But looking at U16 pictures on Ama$on its HDMI I2S connector pinout is not “PS Audio” compatible.  This affects many DACs like Audio GD.  You will hear music but L-R channels are swapped and absolute audio phase is 180 deg. out of phase for PCM audio.  Maybe there is a switch or jumper but U16 owner’s manual does not mention.  The Gustard U12 is the same in this regard.

Also does the U16 provide galvanic isolation?  Can’t tell from the pictures....


----------



## peteg

DACLadder said:


> I hope the best for the U16.  But looking at U16 pictures on Ama$on its HDMI I2S connector pinout is not “PS Audio” compatible.  This affects many DACs like Audio GD.  You will hear music but L-R channels are swapped and absolute audio phase is 180 deg. out of phase for PCM audio.  Maybe there is a switch or jumper but U16 owner’s manual does not mention.  The Gustard U12 is the same in this regard.
> 
> Also does the U16 provide galvanic isolation?  Can’t tell from the pictures....



You download an AUTO I2s software.
https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GSD U16 V1.4 0dB/


----------



## DACLadder

@peteg Thanks!  Had to been an easy solution.


----------



## newtophones07

Can someone explain what the difference is between the two settings for the BNC output (OMODE); Option A is for the BNC to operate  "world clock" mode, and Option B is  for the BNC to operate in "s/pdif" output.

I have a male BNC to 2 pole mini 3.5mm coaxial, already in my stash.  I want to make sure this cable will function off the BNC OUTPUT of the U16,  to send a input signal to the coaxial end, and I don't quite understand what these two settings mean.


----------



## FredA

newtophones07 said:


> Can someone explain what the difference is between the two settings for the BNC output (OMODE); Option A is for the BNC to operate  "world clock" mode, and Option B is  for the BNC to operate in "s/pdif" output.
> 
> I have a male BNC to 2 pole mini 3.5mm coaxial, already in my stash.  I want to make sure this cable will function off the BNC OUTPUT of the U16,  to send a input signal to the coaxial end, and I don't quite understand what these two settings mean.


Just means you can output a clock signal or spdif. If you intent is to send music to a dac, choose spdif. The world clock can be used combined with another digital output if you own a dac that can accept both types combined. This allows synching both devices.


----------



## myshush

Whitigir said:


> I compared pcm vs pcm ...yeah, it is confusing...only way for sure is to compare both at it best myself..lol


Is the U16 as good as Pinkfaun I2S?


----------



## Whitigir

myshush said:


> Is the U16 as good as Pinkfaun I2S?


I don’t have the best for usb interface yet, but so far....no


----------



## batfier (Dec 9, 2018)

PitBul34 said:


> https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/
> 
> Latest firmware update 1.4:
> 
> ...



below some experiences with different firmware versions on U16, incl. HDMI/I2S on AudioGD R2R/R7

Firmware GSD U16V1.4 0db was installed on delivered unit. It's the only working FW for all output at the same time!


HDMI/I2S (max 768khz output)

Firmware GSD U16V1.2 0db
works fine AudioGD R2R/R7 until 384kHz (max input)
left/right output are reversed (you need to swap analog L/R on DAC or AMP)


Firmware GSD U16V1.4_0db
works fine AudioGD R2R/R7 until 384kHz (max input)
left/right output are reversed (you need to swap analog L/R on DAC or AMP)


Firmware GU16V1_4_PSA_0db_PS_Audio_I2S
works fine AudioGD R2R/R7 until 384kHz (max input)
*left/right output is correct *


Coax/SPDIF (max 384khz output) / BNC(Coax)/SPDIF (max 384khz) / Optical/SPDIF (max 192khz) / XLR/AES3 (max 384khz)
Firmware GSD U16V1.2 0db
works fine with Hugo2 until 384kHz (max single input) (coax, optical)
works fine with NAD C510 until 192kHz (max input) (coax, optical, XLR)
works fine with AudioGD R2R/R7 until 192kHz (max input) (coax, optical, bnc, XLR)



Firmware GSD U16V1.4_0db
works fine with Hugo2 until 384kHz (max single input) (coax, optical)
works fine with NAD C510 until 192kHz (max input) (coax, optical, XLR)
works fine with AudioGD R2R/R7 until 192kHz (max input) (coax, optical, bnc, XLR)


Firmware GU16V1_4_PSA_0db_PS_Audio_I2S
*disorderd/crackling sound with Hugo2 (coax, optical)*
*disorderd/crackling sound with NAD C510 (coax, optical, XLR)*
*disorderd/crackling sound with AudioGD R2R/R7 (coax, optical, bnc, XLR)*

edit: reflashed GSD U16V1.4_0db, now all outputs seems to work, updated above​


----------



## Whitigir

Oh, I see.  So for PCM, everything is fine.  However, on DSD, the channel is reversed per the Pin-out terminals.  Given that Gustard claims the firmware can change the Pins out.  Then that will be what we need to make U16 pins compatible in DSD for LKS004


----------



## batfier (Dec 9, 2018)

deleted pls see above


----------



## soumya.banerjee

GU16V1_4_PSA_0db_PS_Audio_I2S is absolutely unusable with other (than Holo Spring)  DACs using Coax/TOSLINK. Get loud static/crackling sound.

Firmware GSD U16V1.4_0db:
1. Works fine with PCM content both using Coax and Optical
2. DoP does not work (DSD64) for Coax or Optical
3. I2S for Holo Spring - PCM channels are swapped. DSD is fine - both native or DoP


----------



## allhifi

rafabro said:


> Another day, 49hrs now. Highs are not so sharp anymore, mids still smooth. But lower mids I would expect be fuller. Instruments still doesn't have proper mass. Vocals sounds to high.
> 
> Unfortunate Gustard used same Nichicon Muse capacitors (same as with X20) which I don't realy like. They presents to much highs, sound imbalanced.
> Obviously Gustard never listen own devices during development process...as obviously never learned...





rafabro said:


> Another day, 49hrs now. Highs are not so sharp anymore, mids still smooth. But lower mids I would expect be fuller. Instruments still doesn't have proper mass. Vocals sounds to high.
> 
> Unfortunate Gustard used same Nichicon Muse capacitors (same as with X20) which I don't realy like. They presents to much highs, sound imbalanced.
> Obviously Gustard never listen own devices during development process...as obviously never learned...



Hmmmm ..... " ... Unfortunate Gustard used same Nichicon Muse capacitors (same as with X20) which I don't realy like"   (????????)

Interesting you claim the  SQ 'problem to be the "Nichicon Muse capacitors", when in fact it's far more likely that the SQ "imbalance" you observe may be (and in fact is most likely) issues within your ancillary gear/or cabling ? 

pj


----------



## rafabro

allhifi said:


> Interesting you claim the  SQ 'problem to be the "Nichicon Muse capacitors", when in fact it's far more likely that the SQ "imbalance" you observe may be (and in fact is most likely) issues within your ancillary gear/or cabling ?


No as I own also SU-1 and Dante DIO XLR. And had many times my friends SU-1 so my test bench is quit wide to compare what device can do. Direct comparison tells you much more.

You can get used to to the sound it presents but when you switch you know, it could be better.
Besides I know those caps very well and them sound signature.


----------



## newtophones07

@batfier

Can you show me the cable you used to connect to the Hugo2.  Also are you able to playback Native DSD512 through the Hugo2 using the U16, and if so is through the BNC output?  Thanks


----------



## batfier (Dec 9, 2018)

newtophones07 said:


> @batfier
> 
> Can you show me the cable you used to connect to the Hugo2.  Also are you able to playback Native DSD512 through the Hugo2 using the U16, and if so is through the BNC output?  Thanks



Didn't found a perfect cable, so just using a normal digital cable  (75 Ohm) RCA-to-RCA plus an adapter RCA-to-3,5mm (mono) on Hugo 2 side.

Hugo 2 coax port is 3,5mm and can take up to two coax connections.

One Hugo2 coax connection in "limited" to 384khz (which is more than usual) so I doubt DSD512 will work this way. You could use Hugo 2 USB port for that. An alternative would be an additional M-Scaler (USB port also) and use dual coax out to dual coax in on Hugo 2. This way 768khz are possbile, but only with Chord upscaling stuff.

However I don't see a way to get DSD512 from a U16->Hugo2 combo.

I think the only way you can output DSD512 from U16 is HDMI/I2S. So you need a DAC with this kind of inputs and hopefully the right version of this non standardized HDMI/I2S interface


----------



## newtophones07

batfier said:


> Didn't found a perfect cable, so just using a normal digital cable  (75 Ohm) RCA-to-RCA plus an adapter RCA-to-3,5mm (mono) on Hugo 2 side.
> 
> Hugo 2 coax port is 3,5mm and can take up to two coax connections.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight!!!


----------



## PitBul34

https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GSD U16 V1.4 0dB/

Firmware update for Holo Audio & LKS DACs.


----------



## Whitigir

PitBul34 said:


> https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GSD U16 V1.4 0dB/
> 
> Firmware update for Holo Audio & LKS DACs.


Awesome!!, didn’t think they would make it so quickkkk woaaaaaa!!

I can’t believe it, these guys are the best


----------



## soumya.banerjee (Dec 10, 2018)

EDIT: DoP works fine with Topping D50 and Spring over Coax/Optical. So something not right with FiiO Q5/SMSL M8A. All in all things look perfect now.

GU16V1_4_HOLO_0dB.rom solves problems for me wrt Holo Spring. No channel swap issue with 
either PCM or DSD.
Btw, Spring sounds heavenly - so analog like with such a deep soundstage via I2S.

The only issue remains is DoP (DSD64) does not work over Coax or Optical.


----------



## batfier

PitBul34 said:


> https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GSD U16 V1.4 0dB/
> 
> Firmware update for Holo Audio & LKS DACs.



Please for AudioGD also


----------



## rafabro

batfier said:


> Please for AudioGD also


PSA is same as AudioGD? Is in it?


----------



## batfier

rafabro said:


> PSA is same as AudioGD? Is in it?



yes, but current PSA firmware version only works for HDMI/I2S output. all other outputs have a strange/crackling sound,  see my posts above.

so, to be more precise:

a working firmware for PSA/AudioGD please


----------



## PitBul34

Gustard U16 and Totaldac d1 Core:


----------



## allhifi

rafabro said:


> After all those days I am generally happy to swap SU-1 to U16. It's not perfect but of the shelf it sounds better then modified SU-1 which is impressive.
> 
> Build quality pretty good and like design as well.



Wow ! Thank you for sharing. 

(BTW: If using i2s (HDMi), I've very recently purchased/connected Audioquest 'Chocolate' 1.0m HDMi cable (from Cinnamon 1.0m) and OMG -Speed/Clarity, dimensionality/realism (3-D literally) incredibly impressive low-end depth with control without sacrificing, (NOT interfering) with the so,so important amazing upper bass/lower-midrange performance; definition, nuance, articulation. 
This cable, single-handily elevated performance/SQ to genuine 'high-end, highly resolving calibre. And this was first noted immediately after plug-in. (72-100 Hours settling time. )

Anyone out there that can give impressions on Gustard X-22  (9038-chip) DAC ? Better than X-20PRO ?

Cheers,

pj


----------



## allhifi

rafabro said:


> Most of electronics I buy with Mouser, Farnel, hificollective & audiophonics.
> 
> I had a HQPlayer demo and didn't like from user perspective. It's not so intuitive as JRiver. I may give another try if SQ is worth it.
> 
> New U16 controller give much more progress than any software or hardware with XMOS before. But need very long burn-in time. I recommend 2 weeks of 24h operation, so over 300h.





rafabro said:


> Most of electronics I buy with Mouser, Farnel, hificollective & audiophonics.
> 
> If using HDMi (i2s) try Audioquest 'Chocolate' HDMi cable -OMG, astonishing SQ
> 
> ...


----------



## allhifi

Whitigir said:


> Very well built unit, and I confirm that the stock I2S configuration works out of the box with any HDMI cables connecting into LKS004.
> 
> I am using HQPlayer and Upsampling on the fly into DSD512 via my I2S by LKS004 and it works !
> 
> ...



Wonderful pic's/U-16.

If you can, try Audioquest 'Chocolate' HDMi -as I just connected to my U-12/X-20PRO (after trying 'Pearl', 'Forest, 'Cinnamon' (HDMi) and OMG: Stunning SQ.
(Likely the most impressive 'snake-oil' you are likely to find at such a reasonable price ! I couldn't believe the SQ transformation. Incredible.)

pj
(P.S> Also purchased a DH Labs USB cable that destroyed the WW 'Starlight 7' -it is in another league entirely (the DH Lab USB). And it's priced very reasonably -less than Wireworld Starlight 7.)


----------



## allhifi

Whitigir said:


> Actually, I have just compared between Pangea USB vs my DIY UP-Silver USB cables (Ultra pure Silver 18AWG per conductor x4).  There are perceived improvement in performances, but Pangea isn’t bad as it cost so very little in comparison to my DIY one.
> 
> I was previously loving Pinkfaun I2S into my LkS004 and tucked away this Cables for a while and forgot about it lol...thanks for reminding.
> 
> I also have Silver Dragon USB cables too, which is very worth buying instead of DIY, highly recommended



Try Audioquest 'Chocolate' HDMi (for i2s). Incredible !

(U-12, Gustard X-20 PRO, AQ 'Carbon' USB, Raspberry Pi-3, Rune Audio)

All Digital (and other sources) powered via Balanced AC Power Supply (Blue Circle MR-800).

pj


----------



## allhifi

Cortes said:


> what cables are you using for the gustard?. I own an old acoustic revive USB and some DIY interconnects with with pure silver 24 gauge, and I don't know if it makes any sense to spend more into interconnects.



It will when you hear a pair (of IC's) that turns your listening room into a 3-D panoramic sound-field !  (RE. I don't know if it makes any sense to spend more into interconnects.)

Sometimes it's a genuine, premium (pure-silver) design of 'engineered' design (winding topology, insulation, connector quality ) while other times  a synergistic complement.

Bottom line: No one wishes/likes to spend money unnecessarily, but when/if we hear something special (repeatedly), very obvious performance improvement, we ultimately find a way to get it.

pj


----------



## allhifi

PitBul34 said:


> Gustard U16 vs Singxer SU-1. Gustard win, imo
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The first video (Singxer SU-1 ?) sounds waaaaay better !

Same cables, power cord ?

pj


----------



## allhifi

PitBul34 said:


> Gustard U16 vs Singxer SU-1. Gustard win, imo
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Test # 6 = so much better (sounding) !

pj


----------



## allhifi

soumya.banerjee said:


> Received mine today after almost a month of hold by customs. Anyways, the difference even from my puny SMSL M8A via TOSLINK/Coaxial was outright mind numbing. I am not going back to USB again.
> I will test out the I2S output to Holo Spring tomorrow. That will be some fun!



And, find/use an Audioquest 'Chocolate' HDMi/i2s for even more fun ! 

pj


----------



## rafabro

batfier said:


> yes, but current PSA firmware version only works for HDMI/I2S output. all other outputs have a strange/crackling sound,  see my posts above.
> 
> so, to be more precise:
> 
> a working firmware for PSA/AudioGD please


But if you use other than I2S outputs you don't need use PSA firmware. You can use Gustard option and should work fine, right?


----------



## Whitigir

Using U16 with LKS004 now! Excellent !  DSD512 is a good thing to have.  I may be just so greedy and buy another PCI-E USB card to own both interfaces ? LoL


----------



## soundlogic

Hello; I have reached out to a few, via PM asking this question, which I will now pose to the group: 
Has anyone compared a highly modified SU1 to a stock U16? I have a “Kitsune Tuned” SU1. Info here: https://kitsunehifi.com/product/kte...6-dop-free-shipping-with-coupon-code-singxer/
With all the talk here about the difference in chip designs, I was wondering just how/what sonic differences...if any...were heard between the two units? Thanks in advance for your contributions.
Tim


----------



## asaifa

Just a heads up for those with the Job Integraged amp. I have had it with the U16 for about a week now and the improvement is significant, using the Job's inbuilt dac. I had the Schiit Eitr before and it made little difference with the Job but this is completely different. The soundstage is much better and there is more clarity. It was a bit rough in the trebble initially, but that is wearing off, and I am using a PC with the Jcat USB card but no extra isolation.


----------



## batfier

rafabro said:


> But if you use other than I2S outputs you don't need use PSA firmware. You can use Gustard option and should work fine, right?



beside of the audiogd have other dacs to feed... so it should work in parallel for me. 

fw 1.4 plain at least works, beside off swapping l/r on the amp, not sure about other side effects. so having a firmware for audiogd, where all other output works as expected,  would be great.


----------



## Whitigir

With LKs004 firmware, it is now great again!!


----------



## peteg

I have a modded Singxer U1 but looking for a silver Gustard U16, have they come out yet.


----------



## DACLadder

I received the Gustard U16 (black) today.  Ordered on Ebay, saved over 10%, and arrive in the USA in only 5-days after ordering.  Updating firmware to v1.4 PSA and loading the driver which took about 5 minutes.

I have a SIngxer SU-1 that is modified for external +5V power supply (not Kitsune though).  And use HDMI I2S on Input 5 of both my AGD R7 and M7S DACs.  I also have Singxer F1s mounted internally for Input 6 on both DACs.  So I am flush with SIngxers on multiple inputs.  Essentially the SU-1 and F1 sound and perform the same on my AGD DACs.

The Gustard U16 has potential soundwise.  With HDMI I2S I can immediately hear more dynamic bass with the U16.  Vocals and trebles seem smoother and with less grain.  Midrange is very good.  But I don't yet have the same depth and soundstage as the well used SIngxers.  So U16 has some breaking in to do but, so far, pleased with the sound quality.

Now the bad news...  The U16 has some operational issues.  I realize the U16 firmware (v1.4 PSA) is freshly minted with minimal bake time but DSD64 had some noise until I started and stopped playback a few times.  Also jumping from PCM 88kHz to 192kHz I had a lot of noise.  But later played 192kHz OK.  Also heard a few squeaks and squawks at the beginning of some songs with sampling rate changes.  At 176kHz I can detect dropouts in the audio like samples are missing??  44.1, 88.2, and 96Khz file seems just fine.  Anyway, more firmware to come I am sure. The old Gustard U12 had similar issues when jumping around random tracks.  In comparison the SIngxers work flawlessly and never any issues.  So if Gustard is monitoring this thread please note the operational issues.


----------



## rafabro

U16 doesn't make any noise for me. I use Gustard DAC and obviously standard V1.4. As I read about similar observations with U16 I am assuming issues are with other than standard firmwares.
Su-1 makes noise when switch from DSD to pcm and other way 

But so far our conclusions and observations are mostly the same.


----------



## DACLadder

176kHz PCM files sound OK after changing Foobar output "buffer length"  from 1900 ms to 3300 ms.  So working through configuration and start up issues.


----------



## Whitigir

The clocks is very important to these devices, and the clocks inside the U16 is much superior to the one in Singxer


----------



## DACLadder (Dec 16, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> The clocks is very important to these devices, and the clocks inside the U16 is much superior to the one in Singxer



I agree.  ESS USB implementation versus Xmos as well perhaps.

The U16 and my PC have settled down and called a truce.  I remembered I have a similar issue with the older Gustard U12 where switching between dedicated sound file playback via Foobar and Windows soundmapper (games, news, Spotify, Youtube, etc) is not so smooth.  So now, like the U12, Foobar HDMI I2S goes in one input on the DAC and only used for this purpose.  Windows stuff is used with the another internal  USB input.  Keeping  these functions separated and now have consistent music file playback with the U16. And I just simply switch inputs on the DAC for Windows or Foobar.  It is a quirk of my PC, Windows, and the Gustard drivers maybe for whatever reasons.  The U16 front panel showing mode (PCM/DSD) and sampling rate is a nice feature and helped me localize this issue with my system.

Gustard U16 sounds great with the Audio GD R7 DAC (HDMI I2S).  AGD's latest firmware V3A sounded on the bright side and a little grainy with the Singxers SU-1 and F1 (I2S).  Swapping to the U16 and better balance. Sound is crisp with excellent pace and rhythm.  Grain/ glare is much less.  Vocals are good with the right amount of sibilance.  Bass and treble dynamics/ attack increased (a lot).  With just a few days run-in depth and width have improved so hopefully those will continue positive as well.  Enjoying the changes brought by the U16!


----------



## FredA (Dec 16, 2018)

DACLadder said:


> I agree.  ESS USB implementation versus Xmos as well perhaps.
> 
> The U16 and my PC have settled down and called a truce.  I remembered I have a similar issue with the older U12 where switching between dedicated sound file playback via Foobar and Windows soundmapper (games, news, Spotify, Youtube, etc) is not so smooth.  So like the U12 Foobar HDMI I2S goes in one input on the DAC and only used for this purpose.  Windows stuff is used with another USB input.  Keeping  these functions separated and now have consistent music file playback with the U16. And I just simply switch inputs on the DAC for Windows or Foobar.  It is a quirk of my PC, Windows, and the Gustard drivers maybe for whatever reasons.  The U16 front panel showing mode (PCM/DSD) and sampling rate is a nice feature and helped me localize this issue with my system.
> 
> Gustard U16 sounds great with the Audio GD R7 DAC (HDMI I2S).  AGD's latest firmware V3A sounded on the bright side and a little grainy with the Singxers SU-1 and F1 (I2S).  Swapping to the U16 and better balance. Sound is crisp with excellent pace and rhythm.  Grain/ glare is much less.  Vocals are good with the right amount of sibilance.  Bass and treble dynamics/ attack increased (a lot).  With just a few days run-in depth and width have improved so hopefully those will continue positive as well.  Enjoying the changes brought by the U16!


Any channel inversion with the u16? What Hdmi cable do you use?


----------



## DACLadder

FredA said:


> Any channel inversion with the u16? What Hdmi cable do you use?



With the U16 "v1.4 PSA" firmware L-R channels are correct with the AGD R7.  I don't know about absolute audio phase but sounds good with PCM files.

For HDMI cable I am using my trusty Wireworld Silver Starlight 6 0.3m length.  Today, you could probably get a cheaper cable that is perhaps better.  Whatever cable stock use the shortest cable length for best signal integrity of the clocks.  I used a generic 2m HDMI cable when de-bugging issues yesterday and could hear a difference (with AGD DAC).


----------



## batfier

FredA said:


> Any channel inversion with the u16? What Hdmi cable do you use?



its depending on firmware version. for audio gd  fw 1.4 psa works for hdmi/i2s with correct channels. 

but with this fw all other u16 outputs have a problem. 

if you want to have all outputs usable,  use fw1.4 standard, but then you need to swap channels on you amp or dac.


----------



## FredA

batfier said:


> its depending on firmware version. for audio gd  fw 1.4 psa works for hdmi/i2s with correct channels.
> 
> but with this fw all other u16 outputs have a problem.
> 
> if you want to have all outputs usable,  use fw1.4 standard, but then you need to swap channels on you amp or dac.



I see. I would just use i2s anyway.


DACLadder said:


> With the U16 "v1.4 PSA" firmware L-R channels are correct with the AGD R7.  I don't know about absolute audio phase but sounds good with PCM files.
> 
> For HDMI cable I am using my trusty Wireworld Silver Starlight 6 0.3m length.  Today, you could probably get a cheaper cable that is perhaps better.  Whatever cable stock use the shortest cable length for best signal integrity of the clocks.  I used a generic 2m HDMI cable when de-bugging issues yesterday and could hear a difference (with AGD DAC).


Maybe just a .5m hdmi 2.0 would bo a great job.


----------



## FredA

Dam it, just pulled the trigger on it. I will have to make room somehow on my rack.


----------



## Chopin75

rafabro said:


> Physically yes. But software players run only one output in time.


an aggregate device is needed to like e DAC as one device.  Mac can do that with J river media and I tried it. Linux supposedly can be done foo, but a bit more complex. The sound out of Mac coreaudio sucks,  so I am hoping audiolonux can do that


----------



## littlexx26

so it can output dsd1024 now?


----------



## Whitigir

littlexx26 said:


> so it can output dsd1024 now?


I don’t think so....what makes you think that it can ? I hope it can lol


----------



## motberg

I just installed a U16 onto my Audio GD NOS7... used a .5 m DHLabs Silversonic HDMI... updated with the PS Audio firmware and R/L OK.
But I only have ASIO driver output available (Windows Server 2012 w/ AO) . Previously with SU1, Tanly, etc. I always had KS and WASAPI drivers available with Kernal Streaming the clearest.... 

Anyone have KS working ?


----------



## DACLadder (Dec 20, 2018)

@motberg  With Windows 10 Foobar lists two "KS::Audio Output" selections.  I don't know the differences between the two but one works and the other I get no sound.  The 2nd may be for SIngxer F1 wihich is also installed on my system.  ASIO and WASAPI:event also work OK. 

U16 operation is not perfect in my system (unlike the Singxers).  At first boot I get no sound output until I attempt play on a few tracks then seems to work from that point on.  Foobar will give an error message on occasion and no sound.  Yesterday I had to restart the computer to get sound after working OK for 6 hours.  176kHz files are good sometimes and other times choppy.  But when working the U16 will play for hours without any issue.

The U16 sounds great though.  Just seems the Windows driver/ firmware handshake needs some additional development work.


----------



## rafabro

WASAPI, Direct Sound & ASIO. That's all I have. 

And all working but WASAPI sounds the best for me.


----------



## FredA (Dec 22, 2018)

Just got my Gustard.

Flashing the fw from my windows 8 pc  did not work.  Had to go my my parents’, who have windows 10.

Then i got back home after an easy fw update to the ps audio version. I intented to use the same setup as with my f-1, that is:

rpi3b+ -> wyrd -> intona -> u16 -> r2r-7.

Had to remove the wyrd, it would not work with it. After this, It worked almost right away i.e. as soon i remembered hdmi is input 4 on my dac.

Then i had the idea  to feed the intona using with the zerozone lps i used to feed the f-1. Got an instantaneous sound upgrade it seemed to me.

So far so good. The sound is relaxed and the bass is tuneful. Promising. Maybe too much bass as it is. I will burn it for a week before making a judgement. The sound is very laid back now, too much so.


----------



## FredA

Just wondering, any hdmi cable suggestion for 100$? Dhlabs, wireworld, audioquest, ?.


----------



## FredA

Just ordered a bluejeans belden f28 after reading a positive feeback on audiogon. 35$ inluding fedex shipping. 

The u16 sounds already as good as the f-1. It did not during the first hour.

 It is very smooth, that’s for sure. Resolution is already excellent.


----------



## DACLadder

Congrats Fred and give it a few days to settle in.  More bass is the first item noticed followed by better vocals and less grain.  This hopefully evolves with more balance.  Width and depth took a few more days to develop.

I am just amazed how well 16-bit CD audio sounds using the U16 with R7.  Really good!


----------



## Chopin75

FredA said:


> Just wondering, any hdmi cable suggestion for 100$? Dhlabs, wireworld, audioquest, ?.


I use DH lab toskink and Usb cables, both excelent, sure their HDMI won’t disappoint but I never tried it


----------



## FredA

DACLadder said:


> Congrats Fred and give it a few days to settle in.  More bass is the first item noticed followed by better vocals and less grain.  This hopefully evolves with more balance.  Width and depth took a few more days to develop.
> 
> I am just amazed how well 16-bit CD audio sounds using the U16 with R7.  Really good!


I am getting a taste of what you describe already, and i am sure things will get better.


----------



## FredA

Chopin75 said:


> I use DH lab toskink and Usb cables, both excelent, sure their HDMI won’t disappoint but I never tried it


The dhlabs is interesting. I will resort to it if things don’t work out with any of the three very cheap cables i ordered. Thanks.


----------



## FredA

THe u16 is heavy and well finished. Very impressive at this price point. And with all high-quality connectors. Very well spent money it seems.


----------



## FredA

And it is quite amazing how diffirent from the f-1 it sounds. Like some mentioned, the r-7 sounds almost like a different dac with it. It’s so fluid.


----------



## DACLadder

DHLabs HDMI cables are currently on sale at 20% off.  0.5m cable is only $56.00 US.  1m length $8.00 additional.  www.silversonic.com


----------



## FredA

DACLadder said:


> DHLabs HDMI cables are currently on sale at 20% off.  0.5m cable is only $56.00 US.  1m length $8.00 additional.  www.silversonic.com


Great bargain. Thanks for the tip. I am not sur i will need it, the sound is already quite amazing.


----------



## PitBul34

FredA said:


> Flashing the fw from my windows 8 pc did not work


It works on 64-bit systems only.


----------



## Chopin75

PitBul34 said:


> It works on 64-bit systems only.


Hmm, dumb question, is the 64 bit determined by the computer OS only, not the computer itself ?


----------



## PitBul34

Chopin75 said:


> is the 64 bit determined by the computer OS


I think, yes


----------



## Chopin75

DACLadder said:


> DHLabs HDMI cables are currently on sale at 20% off.  0.5m cable is only $56.00 US.  1m length $8.00 additional.  www.silversonic.com


Nice! I also notice somewhere there is fiberoptical HDMI cable, wonder if that would good for audio.


----------



## bwcgrx

Chopin75 said:


> Hmm, dumb question, is the 64 bit determined by the computer OS only, not the computer itself ?



Windows 8 is available in both 32bit and 64bit variants.

Unless your CPU is quite old or a not so old low end CPU it should be 64bit capable.  Having said that you can generally run 32bit Windows OSes on 64bit hardware and for a time it was not unusual to see 32-bit Windows loaded on to 64-bit hardware due to better software and driver compatibility for 32-bit back in the day.

Pull up the system icon in the control panel.  You should see something similar to the screen below, my system is running Windows 10 but the basic info screen is pretty much the same back through windows XP.  You should see if you are running 32-bit or 64-bit Windows.


----------



## DACLadder

Chopin75 said:


> Nice! I also notice somewhere there is fiberoptical HDMI cable, wonder if that would good for audio.



The fiber optic HDMI cables are intended for long cable runs up to 328ft.  Expensive and requires +5V on both sides to power the optic chips. The AGD DACs do not supply HDMI-type power. Compared to a short, regular cable fiber seems to add an unnecessary signal conversion layer.  But one benefit with fiber is galvanic isolation.


----------



## batfier (Dec 23, 2018)

Chopin75 said:


> Hmm, dumb question, is the 64 bit determined by the computer OS only, not the computer itself ?



by both and also by the application.

each "foundation" must be at least the same Bit architecture or higher:
Hardware > OS > Application

Meaning, if you want to run a 64bit application, a 64bit OS is required,  which requires a 64bit HW.

If you want to run a 32bit application, either 32bit or 64bit OS is fine and a 32bit OS either runs on 32 or 64 bit hardware.


----------



## FredA

DACLadder said:


> The fiber optic HDMI cables are intended for long cable runs up to 328ft.  Expensive and requires +5V on both sides to power the optic chips. The AGD DACs do not supply HDMI-type power. Compared to a short, regular cable fiber seems to add an unnecessary signal conversion layer.  But one benefit with fiber is galvanic isolation.


The conversion to optical and back to voltage introduces jitter. I think it is a reallly bad idea.


----------



## rafabro

FredA said:


> Just wondering, any hdmi cable suggestion for 100$? Dhlabs, wireworld, audioquest, ?.


I was comparing Wireworld, Audioquest and few other in similar price range and I stayed with AQ Carbon. Most natural and detailed sound.


----------



## motberg

DACLadder said:


> DHLabs HDMI cables are currently on sale at 20% off.  0.5m cable is only $56.00 US.  1m length $8.00 additional.  www.silversonic.com


I think that is the same model I am using, mine is a very stiff cable but the cable stayed in place at the required position (the connectors are 90 degrees to each other).


----------



## DACLadder (Dec 23, 2018)

The flat Wireworld cables are also difficult to fit.  Extremely stiff especially with the required 90 deg. twist going from U16 to AGD DAC.


----------



## FredA

rafabro said:


> I was comparing Wireworld, Audioquest and few other in similar price range and I stayed with AQ Carbon. Most natural and detailed sound.



THanks!


----------



## FredA (Dec 23, 2018)

After 24hours, the u16 sounds rather dull. It’s lacking dynamics. And imaging is not there yet, no depth. But it sounds smooth.

Plus the soundstage is narrow compared to the f-1. Cheap hdmi cable contributing to this? Maybe. Needs more burn in, for sure.


----------



## motberg

DACLadder said:


> The flat Wireworld cables are also difficult to fit.  Extremely stiff especially with the required 90 deg. twist going from U16 to AGD DAC.


This looks like a Starlight 0.3M.. I have one of these also (on the SU-1/R1) and a while ago I compared to the Silversonic 0.5M.
I ended up sticking with the Starlight 0.3M at the time... 
Also, an older model Ultraviolet 5.2 at 0.3M to me was indistinguishable from the 0.3M Starlight.

I also tried a 1M Starlight. I sensed some confusion in the soundfield, but that could surely have been 100% expectation bias as even at 1M I did not notice any dropouts or similar.


----------



## rafabro

FredA said:


> After 24hours, the u16 sounds rather dull. It’s lacking dynamics. And imaging is not there yet, no depth. But it sounds smooth.
> 
> Plus the soundstage is narrow compared to the f-1. *Cheap hdmi cable contributing to this*? Maybe. Needs more burn in, for sure.


Could be part of this. But as I said before, you need to wait around 200h to have this settled.


----------



## FredA

Ordered this chinese hdmi 2.1 cable. On paper, it’s top notch and looks very good on pcitures, plus tons of good feebacks on aliexpress:



https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Enthusiast-...var=492856460603&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

The u16 sounds better this morning after 36 hours. Better dynamics, more detaisl.


----------



## DACLadder

motberg said:


> This looks like a Starlight 0.3M.. I have one of these also (on the SU-1/R1) and a while ago I compared to the Silversonic 0.5M.
> I ended up sticking with the Starlight 0.3M at the time...
> Also, an older model Ultraviolet 5.2 at 0.3M to me was indistinguishable from the 0.3M Starlight.
> 
> I also tried a 1M Starlight. I sensed some confusion in the soundfield, but that could surely have been 100% expectation bias as even at 1M I did not notice any dropouts or similar.



That is correct WW Starlight 5.2 (red).  My first HDMI cable that I picked it as it was the shortest cable I could find at 0.3m. And even using it today with the U16.  Sounds the same as the Silver Starlight 6 in the same length.  In generally, but not always, cables 0.5m and below sound good.  Get over 1m in length and I can tell a difference.  Understandable as jitter increases as signals deteriorate propagating down the wires.

Somewhere out there is a new HDMI 2.0 that is cheap and sounds OK.  And use only enough cable length to get the job done.


----------



## DACLadder

@FredA  Going forward HDMI 2.1 spec cables may be the way to go.  Impedance control has to be extremely accurate to transfer data at 48Gbs for 8K video.  These cables will loafing along with 24Mhz audio data.


----------



## FredA (Dec 24, 2018)

DACLadder said:


> @FredA  Going forward HDMI 2.1 spec cables may be the way to go.  Impedance control has to be extremely accurate to transfer data at 48Gbs for 8K video.  These cables will loafing along with 24Mhz audio data.



My primecables mamba series .5m sounds great today.

As for the 2.1 above, i a ordered a 1m but was tempted to go 1.5m as recommended by offramp. 0.5 was not available from this seller.


----------



## FredA (Dec 24, 2018)

This is what i call making room for the u16. On the left, of course, the guest of honor, in the middle, from bottom to top, a lps to feed the intona (on the shelf below), a lps to feed the rpi, and the rpi itself, secured with an elastic band to its lps. On the right, the nfb-1amp.


----------



## peteg

Bought one on ebay will be a little while before I get it, has anyone listen to the new Singxer su-6 yet. I'm using a modded Singxer su-1 now but had a Gustard u12.


----------



## FredA

peteg said:


> Bought one on ebay will be a little while before I get it, has anyone listen to the new Singxer su-6 yet. I'm using a modded Singxer su-1 now but had a Gustard u12.


The su-6 is ridiculously expensive imo, although it features a super capacitor psu. The u16 is most likely a better value. Even with the top notch psu, i find the asking price of the su-6 unjustified. The u16 seems to have been designed from a clean sheet and gives you your money worth and more, like the f-1 did when introduced. Given how fast things evolve with these ddcs, the su-6 is not an interesting deal, to me at least.


----------



## rafabro

Another good thing about U16. If you cut the power in USB socket, the SQ will increase even more. Cleaner, deeper sound stage.


----------



## FredA (Dec 25, 2018)

rafabro said:


> Another good thing about U16. If you cut the power in USB socket, the SQ will increase even more. Cleaner, deeper sound stage.


I am starting to get a taste of how the u16 can sound after 90 hours of run time. The imaging is begining to be holographic. The sound is also very resolved and analog. The depth is now much improved. I feel the soundstage can still widen and bass extension can also improve. Otherwise, it is impressive. Again, very analog. I am VERY happy with it so far.


----------



## FredA (Dec 25, 2018)

rafabro said:


> Another good thing about U16. If you cut the power in USB socket, the SQ will increase even more. Cleaner, deeper sound stage.


I use a usb cable with two trunks so the power line is perfectly isolatated from the data line.


----------



## FredA

Got to give it to you @Whitigir , thr r-7 really is over the top with a high-quality hdmi i2s source. I just can’t believe my ears. It is so smooth, detailed and with great soundstaging and imaging. It was already all this with the f-1, but things have stepped up one notch or two, it’s not subtle. Best sound out of the r-7 yet! I will soon improve the usb signal, so i should get yet another upgrade. So much delicacy in the highs, there are silky.


----------



## DACLadder (Dec 25, 2018)

rafabro said:


> Another good thing about U16. If you cut the power in USB socket, the SQ will increase even more. Cleaner, deeper sound stage.



Forgot about that!  Thanks for the reminder...


----------



## DACLadder

Audio GD R2R DACs have always responded well to better HDMI I2S sources - from Master 7 to R7.  The U16 driving I2S is no exception and definitely makes the R7 sound differently versus the Singxers.  And that difference is more enjoyable sound.  Tighter bass, less grain, smooth vocals, and great rhythm.  The Gustard U16 is the best audio tweak I have had in a long while!  

@FredA Let us know what you find in way of HDMI cables....  thanks


----------



## FredA (Dec 25, 2018)

DACLadder said:


> Audio GD R2R DACs have always responded well to better HDMI I2S sources - from Master 7 to R7.  The U16 driving I2S is no exception and definitely makes the R7 sound differently versus the Singxers.  And that difference is more enjoyable sound.  Tighter bass, less grain, smooth vocals, and great rhythm.  The Gustard U16 is the best audio tweak I have had in a long while!
> 
> @FredA Let us know what you find in way of HDMI cables....  thanks


I will for sure. I am very confident about the chinese 2.1 cable. I anticipate it will ve as good or better than anything out there. And one should never forget that close to 100% of the hdmi cables out there, whatever the brand, are made in China.


----------



## PitBul34

rafabro said:


> Another good thing about U16. If you cut the power in USB socket, the SQ will increase even more. Cleaner, deeper sound stage


You can use similar 2-head USB cable for "cutting" the USB power line, this one handmaded by me:


----------



## rafabro

PitBul34 said:


> You can use similar 2-head USB cable for "cutting" the USB power line, this one handmaded by me:


My SoTm USB card has a switch to turn off the power. JCAT card also has a jumpers to do same thing.


----------



## wwmhf

PitBul34 said:


> You can use similar 2-head USB cable for "cutting" the USB power line, this one handmaded by me:



You cable looks great! Very good idea. I assume the black type-a connector is for signal, the red is for power. 

I want to make one like your myself. I know where to buy type-a connector. Would please provide a source for that type-b connector?


----------



## PitBul34 (Dec 26, 2018)

Тhank you! Yes, red line used for power. Both lines (power & data) are isolated from each other by braided copper screen. There are a lot of USB connectors for DIY on Ebay, f.e.:


----------



## darren700

After reading through this thread yesterday I decided to purchase a U16 to use with my Audio-GD R2R7 since it seems several of you have had such good success with the combo.

Based on what is stated here it sounds like the U16 I2S HDMI works with the Audio-GD R2R7 well?
Did i understand correctly and the pinout is correct for Audio-GD I2S HDMI as long as I flash to newest V1.4 PSA Firmware?

I also ordered one of those HDMI cable's FredA Linked to try and am currently trying to decide what other HDMI's to order to try.

Im hoping the U16 is a step up from my current chain:

Jriver PC  -----> 2 Port Intel Ethernet Bridged ----> SOTM sMS-200 (Uptone LPS-1) -----> Audio Sensibility Statement Silver USB Cable 0.7m -----> Uptone ISOREGEN (Uptone LPS-1) -----> Uptone USPCB A>B Adapter -----> Amanero Combo 384 -----> Audio-GD R2R7

thinking my new chain with Gustard U16 will be:

Jriver PC  -----> 2 Port Intel Ethernet Bridged ----> SOTM sMS-200 (Uptone LPS-1) -----> Audio Sensibility Statement Silver USB Cable 0.7m -----> Gustard U16 -----> HDMI Cable  -----> I2S HDMI Audio-GD R2R7


----------



## FredA

darren700 said:


> After reading through this thread yesterday I decided to purchase a U16 to use with my Audio-GD R2R7 since it seems several of you have had such good success with the combo.
> 
> Based on what is stated here it sounds like the U16 I2S HDMI works with the Audio-GD R2R7 well?
> Did i understand correctly and the pinout is correct for Audio-GD I2S HDMI as long as I flash to newest V1.4 PSA Firmware?
> ...


The hdmi 2.1 cable should do a fine job. The primecables mamba series i use now is not bad at all. The only thing i am missing is some low end extension and it could come later on with burn in. I am at just over 100 hours. I will get the black mamba cable within the next few days.

You are right. If you flash the ps-audio fw, you will be able to use the hdmi connection without any issue. Note however that there will be issues with the spdif ouputs with this fw according to another member. I for one don’t care as i prefer going hdmi.

You should enjoy a very clear upgrade coming fron the amanero.

A few minutes ago, i did not like the sound so much. It had become a bit edgy. The rpi had been running 24/7 for 3-4 days. After rebooting it, sound quality became better, almost as good as it ever was. Burn in can also cause temporary regressions.


----------



## FredA

Yep, the reboot did it. Listening to John Coltrane Bahia, i am getting quite emotional. Coltrane’s albums are tough to reproduce but when you get them right, they are just awesome. It’s not just Coltrane, the whole band is just splendid.


----------



## darren700

FredA said:


> The hdmi 2.1 cable should do a fine job. The primecables mamba series i use now is not bad at all. The only thing i am missing is some low end extension and it could come later on with burn in. I am at just over 100 hours. I will get the black mamba cable within the next few days.
> 
> You are right. If you flash the ps-audio fw, you will be able to use the hdmi connection without any issue. Note however that there will be issues with the spdif ouputs with this fw according to another member. I for one don’t care as i prefer going hdmi.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply, im not worried about spdif anyways as like you i plan to use I2S Only.
I actually ordered 2 Primecables Mamba (0.5m and 1.0m) to try also (surprised they were so cheap), this will be my first entry into I2S and I want to make sure I have several HDMI options on hand.
I am excited to try something different with my R2R 7!
Actually, I still have to stop being lazy and flash V3 firmware to my R2R7, running V2S currently but it sounds sooo good already! cant imagine it getting better but I know it can and will with V3 firmware and U16


----------



## DACLadder

darren700 said:


> Thanks for the reply, im not worried about spdif anyways as like you i plan to use I2S Only.
> I actually ordered 2 Primecables Mamba (0.5m and 1.0m) to try also (surprised they were so cheap), this will be my first entry into I2S and I want to make sure I have several HDMI options on hand.
> I am excited to try something different with my R2R 7!
> Actually, I still have to stop being lazy and flash V3 firmware to my R2R7, running V2S currently but it sounds sooo good already! cant imagine it getting better but I know it can and will with V3 firmware and U16



Try the U16 with the R2R 7 firmware you are familiar with first.  That way you will know what is happening with the sound.  And actually V2S OS = V3S OS (no changes) as only NOS mode changes for V3S.  However for V3A OS and NOS both change so give this one a try when comfortable.


----------



## FredA

darren700 said:


> Thanks for the reply, im not worried about spdif anyways as like you i plan to use I2S Only.
> I actually ordered 2 Primecables Mamba (0.5m and 1.0m) to try also (surprised they were so cheap), this will be my first entry into I2S and I want to make sure I have several HDMI options on hand.
> I am excited to try something different with my R2R 7!
> Actually, I still have to stop being lazy and flash V3 firmware to my R2R7, running V2S currently but it sounds sooo good already! cant imagine it getting better but I know it can and will with V3 firmware and U16


The u16 is quite remarkable, there is such ease in the top end, and a rich medium. At first, it will be too soft, be advised. Things will get better within the first 24 hours. It pairs really well with v3a imo.


----------



## darren700

DACLadder said:


> Try the U16 with the R2R 7 firmware you are familiar with first.  That way you will know what is happening with the sound.  And actually V2S OS = V3S OS (no changes) as only NOS mode changes for V3S.  However for V3A OS and NOS both change so give this one a try when comfortable.



Thanks for that info, much appreciated. I will try try the U16 with V2S firmware first as I am using OS anyways.



FredA said:


> The u16 is quite remarkable, there is such ease in the top end, and a rich medium. At first, it will be too soft, be advised. Things will get better within the first 24 hours. It pairs really well with v3a imo.



Great to hear, my speakers have a very accurate ribbon tweeter (Monitor Audio GX300) so the smooth top end of the U16 should compliment them perfectly. just have to decide whether to use smooth or accurate firmware once the U16 is broken in.

I did expect plenty of break-in will be required for optimal performance. I plan to leave it on 24/7 with my R2R7 and SMS-200

Thanks for the advice all!


----------



## Thenewguy007

rafabro said:


> Another good thing about U16. If you cut the power in USB socket, the SQ will increase even more. Cleaner, deeper sound stage.



How do you do that?

Anyone opened their U16 & see if the the generic Kitsune DC kit would plug in to bypass the power supply?

https://kitsunehifi.com/product/singxer-su-1-dc-power-conversion-kit-kitsunehifi-2-1mmx5-5mm/


----------



## yolop (Dec 29, 2018)

Hi,
i have made my own adapter to bypas the power of the USB completely.
Once i have synced to my DDC i simply get off the switch.
regrds
Jürgen


----------



## rafabro

Thenewguy007 said:


> How do you do that?
> 
> Anyone opened their U16 & see if the the generic Kitsune DC kit would plug in to bypass the power supply?
> 
> https://kitsunehifi.com/product/singxer-su-1-dc-power-conversion-kit-kitsunehifi-2-1mmx5-5mm/


It is not generic PSU. Its for SU-1 with 2pin plug. 
Gustard use 4 pin. Exactly the same as in Gustard DAC's.

SU-1 has separate PSU and socket on main pcb is *DC*. U16 has whole power supply on one pcb so the input is *AC*. Changing power source require some modifications.

How I cut the USB power? SOtM USB card has a switch on the back bracket.


----------



## FredA (Dec 30, 2018)

Hi guys.

I am at 180 hours with the u16. Except for a brief episode of harshness at around 140 hours, the break-in went smoothly. The soundstage and bass response gradually improved to equal the  f-1’s.

The bass now extends down low. And the sounstage has the proper width and depth. 

The signature is quite similar to that of the singxer f-1 now. The differences with the f-1 are:

1. Better overall clarity and definition
2. Better smoothness
3. Richer mid range
4. Blacker background

I would say it is significant, but not a night and day difference. But it is very much appreciated. It’s a better version of the same thing, to sum it up, except for the richer mid range. Keep in mind i used the i2s out of the f-1, which maximizes its performance IMO.

One note, using my he-560, i now can detect a lot more recording defects, these have become so clear i can really understand the exact nature of them. So i found out for instance that Woman Child (Cecile Salvant McLorin), was full of them. I thought this album was a top notch recording!

Worth the investment? Yes! At this price point, the Gustard is highly recommended. Fed with a clean usb signal, it will make your r-7 sing. It sounds high-end really. The build quality is excellent and using the i2s out combined to the psa fw, i have no stability issue.


----------



## Asimov-kln

FredA said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I am at 180 hours with the u16. Except for a brief episode of harshness at around 140 hours, the break-in went smoothly. The soundstage and bass response gradually improved to equal the  f-1’s.
> 
> ...



Nice review!
I had the Singxer F-1 but replaced with Schiit Eitr.
Do you have any experience with Schiit Eitr, if so how it compared with Gustard U16?
Have you tried Spdif of Gutard U16, I need to know this as my DAC has no option for HDMI.
TIA


----------



## FredA

Asimov-kln said:


> Nice review!
> I had the Singxer F-1 but replaced with Schiit Eitr.
> Do you have any experience with Schiit Eitr, if so how it compared with Gustard U16?
> Have you tried Spdif of Gutard U16, I need to know this as my DAC has no option for HDMI.
> TIA


No experience with the eitr. I had a Breeze u8 upgraded with Crystek oscillators, and a di2014 before the u8. I haven’t tried the spdif out of the u16 either. I can easily recommend the u16 for someone with an audio-gd dac wanting to use hdmi i2s, that’s all for now.


----------



## asaifa

I had the Eitr feeding a Job Integrated before I had the U16 and though I have not gone back and forth between them (have now sold the Eitr), I would say the U16 is much better, more detailed and clear, better separation.


----------



## Asimov-kln

asaifa said:


> I had the Eitr feeding a Job Integrated before I had the U16 and though I have not gone back and forth between them (have now sold the Eitr), I would say the U16 is much better, more detailed and clear, better separation.



Thanks for the response.
Which output you are using with U16?
Have tried Spdif or AES(XLR) input?


----------



## asaifa

I use the spdif output, as the Job only has spdif input (apart from USB), so I cannot compare it with other outputs, unfortunately.


----------



## motberg

FredA said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I am at 180 hours with the u16. Except for a brief episode of harshness at around 140 hours, the break-in went smoothly. The soundstage and bass response gradually improved to equal the  f-1’s.
> 
> ...



Thanks..
Are you using any type of mains power conditioning into the U16 ?


----------



## darren700 (Dec 30, 2018)

motberg said:


> Thanks..
> Are you using any type of mains power conditioning into the U16 ?



great question, to add to that, have power cables made a difference with the U16 at all @FredA?

I am planning on feeding my Gustard U16 with my Audio-GD HE-350 regenerator, but am debating if I should buy an Audio Sensibility Testament (OCC Copper) Power cable to feed it. (I already have a Audio Sensibility Impact SE Power Cable (HPOFC Copper) for burn in and testing.)


----------



## FredA (Dec 30, 2018)

motberg said:


> Thanks..
> Are you using any type of mains power conditioning into the U16 ?


i have a balanced isolation transfo, shared with the r-7, master-1, and nfb-1amp, not sure how much it helps..
[edit]
Also, the balanced transfo is connected to a qlshifi f-1000 that use some sort of voodoo to clean-up the mains. This power distributor has a positive effect, i know for sure, without restraining current, which is very important as my power amps are plugged to it.


----------



## FredA

darren700 said:


> great question, to add to that, have power cables made a difference with the U16 at all @FredA?
> 
> I am planning on feeding my Gustard U16 with my Audio-GD HE-350 regenerator, but am debating if I should buy an Audio Sensibility Testament (OCC Copper) Power cable to feed it. (I already have a Audio Sensibility Impact SE Power Cable (HPOFC Copper) for burn in and testing.)


i don’t think it’s worth investing a ton of money for a 300$ digital device. I have an ebay furutech imitation right now on mine, great looking cable nonetheless, i paid 120$ for. Frankly, besides with the master-1 pre and r-7, and don’t do much cable matching. The cheaper equipment end up using the cables i found too bright for either the pre or dac. I use the cable with greater awg on the power distributors and power amps.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Anyone with the modded SU-1 & burned in U16 still think the SU-1 is better with soundstage & the top end?

The "smoother" sound signature of the U16 can be a big plus to some systems, but also a negative to other systems that may already sound smooth as they are.


----------



## rafabro

Smooth doesn't mean flat. It means fluid. I can't imagine any system this wouldn't match. It's like good CD player. They always more smooth then USB interface in general. U16 is changing this. Is bringing naturalness.
Like I said before, U16 is better than modded SU-1.

About power cable. I use Furutech S032 & FI28/38 G. I tried also DH Labs Black and was OK, better than standard cable but Furutech improved timber and balans.


----------



## FredA

rafabro said:


> Smooth doesn't mean flat. It means fluid. I can't imagine any system this wouldn't match. It's like good CD player. They always more smooth then USB interface in general. U16 is changing this. Is bringing naturalness.
> Like I said before, U16 is better than modded SU-1.
> 
> About power cable. I use Furutech S032 & FI28/38 G. I tried also DH Labs Black and was OK, better than standard cable but Furutech improved timber and balans.


Fluid is the word. You don’t loose anything in exchange. No tradeoff. Just a more analog yet more resolved sound. The u16 is an outstanding value.


----------



## jimmychan

Smooth & Fluid simply translates into less jitter.


----------



## darren700 (Dec 31, 2018)

FredA said:


> i don’t think it’s worth investing a ton of money for a 300$ digital device. I have an ebay furutech imitation right now on mine, great looking cable nonetheless, i paid 120$ for. Frankly, besides with the master-1 pre and r-7, and don’t do much cable matching. The cheaper equipment end up using the cables i found too bright for either the pre or dac. I use the cable with greater awg on the power distributors and power amps.



Thanks, i was wondering the same thing about diminishing returns on the power cable. i have already sunk a decent amount of money into HDMI cables anyways.... just ordered a Audioquest 0.5mm Chocolate HDMI to try!



rafabro said:


> Smooth doesn't mean flat. It means fluid. I can't imagine any system this wouldn't match. It's like good CD player. They always more smooth then USB interface in general. U16 is changing this. Is bringing naturalness.
> Like I said before, U16 is better than modded SU-1.
> 
> About power cable. I use Furutech S032 & FI28/38 G. I tried also DH Labs Black and was OK, better than standard cable but Furutech improved timber and balans.



the Furutech cable you use should be at a similar level as the  Audio Sensibility Impact SE Power Cable (HPOFC Copper) i  plan to use, (but yours has better connectors). so that's good news to me! Thanks


----------



## MarkR7

Read thru the entire thread folks, and learned a lot about the U16. Great info!

Has anyone compared the U16 to the Matrix X-SPDIF2? I use one with an Uptone LPS1.2 power supply, and I like it a lot. Just wondering if I can improve on my system by incorporating the U16, and by what aspects?

Happy New Year!!


----------



## wwmhf

I got mine today. 

1. I bought it from the bay on Dec. 26 with free shipping. I am still in amazement how the seller could ship it so fast from China to Virginia. There was even a weekend in between. 
2. I think the firmware in this unit is 1.58
3. I am using it with a Gustard X20 DAC. The configuration of U16 + X20 can upsample my CD wave files to DSD256 through forbar2000 well. But it has some difficulty when upsampling to DSD512, there are some random noise/pops once in while. I am not 100% sure whose problem is, but I think X20 itself cannot handle DSD512 well.


----------



## rafabro

Increase buffer size in player, may help with pops.


----------



## wwmhf

Thanks for the suggestion, and I am experimenting it. However, I believe the problem is more on the X20 DAC.


----------



## wwmhf

My U16 came with no power cable, but it came with an USB cable.


----------



## batfier

wwmhf said:


> I got mine today.
> 
> 1. I bought it from the bay on Dec. 26 with free shipping. I am still in amazement how the seller could ship it so fast from China to Virginia. There was even a weekend in between.
> 2. I think the firmware in this unit is 1.58
> 3. I am using it with a Gustard X20 DAC. The configuration of U16 + X20 can upsample my CD wave files to DSD256 through forbar2000 well. But it has some difficulty when upsampling to DSD512, there are some random noise/pops once in while. I am not 100% sure whose problem is, but I think X20 itself cannot handle DSD512 well.



are you sure with the firmware version?  only know 1.4 so far.


----------



## wwmhf

It also came with a small CD containing the following stuffs: 

1. User's manual V1.2.pdf
2. Firmware upgrade tutorial V0.1.pdf
3. USB driver
4. Firmware Rom V1.2 and Rom V1.4
5. Some files related with forbar2000


----------



## wwmhf

batfier said:


> are you sure with the firmware version?  only know 1.4 so far.



I used the firmware update software to check the firmware version, and it reported that the current version is:

GSD U16 V1.58 STD Dec 12 201810:35:00

by which I think the firmware in this U16 is 1.58


----------



## darren700

wwmhf said:


> I used the firmware update software to check the firmware version, and it reported that the current version is:
> 
> GSD U16 V1.58 STD Dec 12 201810:35:00
> 
> by which I think the firmware in this U16 is 1.58


hmm that is very interesting,
If they are now shipping with V 1.58 I wonder when they will provide the other versions of the firmware for download.
Since I am connecting to an Audio-GD R2R7 I2S I will need to flash to V1.4 PSA when my unit arrives... I wonder if there is a newer V1.58 "PSA" Firmware also but its just not uploaded yet??

I just checked the linked firmware download page from shenzhen audio and it still only shows V1.4.


----------



## wwmhf

I agree that it is a little confusing. Because CD in the package contains the firmware V1.4, I thought I should upgrade the firmware to that version. But after I started the firmware update software, it indicated that the firmware in this U16 is newer. So, I ended with doing nothing.


----------



## wwmhf

U16 seems not to have a screen saver...


----------



## batfier

wwmhf said:


> I used the firmware update software to check the firmware version, and it reported that the current version is:
> 
> GSD U16 V1.58 STD Dec 12 201810:35:00
> 
> by which I think the firmware in this U16 is 1.58



thanks.

after some googling found some infos:

"...I installed the latest v1.58 firmware that supports switch I2S signal from the UI (GUSTARD, PS audio, LKS and Holo standard).."

and a link from
https://m.facebook.com/GustardAudio/

to v1.58

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1GZcdzkL9f6Ajfa8snryEI8l7ccff97Zi?usp=drive_open

will test it next year, as only 13 min left in 2018.

happy new year to all of you.


----------



## FredA

My u16 is now at over 200h. Combined to the r-7, it sounds as grainless as a turntable, no joke, yet still lively. Oh yeah, and we change year number so have a good one!


----------



## Chopin75

Happy New Year Everyone here, wherever  you guys are from all over the world!  This is a truly international forum. Question about the U-16. Does it have anything special with the PS, is it toroidal? Is it made such that AC noise is minimum? I am surprised it surpasses the other DDC that has DC LPS, at least according to this forum feedback, though I am not entirely sure if the singxer-SU and F-1 being compared all have DC LPS.  Usually the DC LPS trumps everything. IS the clock of Gustard way superior than that of SIngxer ?


----------



## Chopin75

FredA said:


> My u16 is now at over 200h. Combined to the r-7, it sounds as grainless as a turntable, no joke, yet still lively. Oh yeah, and we change year number so have a good one!


Would love to try this Gustard on my R2R7 to see how analogue and grainless it can get! I am listening to vinyl again the last few days, the fluid analogue feel is still stunning and soundstage is still the best (for stereo, excluding Surround; Digital surround is another  world that is really beyond comparison in terms of realistic sound stage). But so far DSD/DXD on R2R7 has been really quite close to vinyl. I would think Gustard would give stunning results with these super-high RES. Someone here is already doing DSD and not sure anyone doing DXD ?


----------



## PitBul34

darren700 said:


> very interesting,
> If they are now shipping with V 1.58 I wonder when they will provide the other versions of the firmware for download.


And the Oscar goes to.. 
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GZcdzkL9f6Ajfa8snryEI8l7ccff97Zi


----------



## PitBul34 (Jan 1, 2019)

Oh, yeah! And Happy New Year to all of you!


----------



## FredA

Chopin75 said:


> Happy New Year Everyone here, wherever  you guys are from all over the world!  This is a truly international forum. Question about the U-16. Does it have anything special with the PS, is it toroidal? Is it made such that AC noise is minimum? I am surprised it surpasses the other DDC that has DC LPS, at least according to this forum feedback, though I am not entirely sure if the singxer-SU and F-1 being compared all have DC LPS.  Usually the DC LPS trumps everything. IS the clock of Gustard way superior than that of SIngxer ?


The u16 does not have the best power supply it seems but uses multiple fpgas to avoid clock signal contamination by other signals, and by business logic processing. And it is based on the ESS chip. So it is a whole new design intended to minimise jitter. And from what i hear, it is a superior one. The Accusilicon are also excellent oscillators and most certainly contribute to the excellent sound. If i were you, i would just order one.


----------



## batfier (Jan 1, 2019)

batfier said:


> thanks.
> 
> after some googling found some infos:
> 
> ...



v1.58 is working (HDMI/I2S and SPDIF in parallel)

with v1.58 you can switch between I2S modes.

current HDMI/I2S output selection you can see in upper right corner (GSD=GUSTARD, PSA=PS audio, LKS=LKS and Holo=Holo standard)

to change, "press AND HOLD" the "OSCSEL" button. After few sec is changing to next selection. So you can cycle through the I2s modes.

In the lower left corner, there is now a "0 db" information. You can toggle to "STD"  with "press AND HOLD" a few seconds the "OMODE" button. Not sure what it changes. Anyone knows?


----------



## Whitigir

Woaaa, happy new year! And I love this news ! Switching IIS at the flick of a finger !


----------



## rafabro

It was advertised by Gustard 2 months before firmware was ready


----------



## wwmhf

batfier said:


> v1.58 is working (HDMI/I2S and SPDIF in parallel)
> 
> with v1.58 you can switch between I2S modes.
> 
> ...



Happy New Year!

Thanks for the info provided by batfier. So V1.58 provides some convenience for using U16 with a variety of DACs


----------



## DACLadder (Jan 1, 2019)

batfier said:


> In the lower left corner, there is now a "0 db" information. You can toggle to "STD"  with "press AND HOLD" a few seconds the "OMODE" button. Not sure what it changes. Anyone knows?



Good question!  What is the difference between '0dB' and 'STD' output?

Thanks for posting the latest firmware...


----------



## DACLadder

The Gustard U16 1.58 f/w in 'STD' mode rocks the house with AGD R7 DAC over HDMI I2S.  More open, dynamic, and holographic versus '0 dB' - slight but noticed on several tunes.  Jeez, when I thought it could not get any better!

Would be nice to know the technical reason for '0dB' and 'STD' modes....


----------



## Whitigir

Ugh* STD mode ? That word ...LoL...UGh


----------



## DACLadder

The unprotected mode... that's why I like it better perhaps. Makes sense!  LOL

The U16 uses Accusilicon oscillators.  Anyone know a vendor that sells Accusilicon oscillators?  I would like to modify my DAC if I can find the right type. 

I have called Accusilicon sales offices in California several times and only get a recording.  Never a returned call.  Just want to know where and how these oscillators can be purchased.


----------



## rafabro

Someone on this or another forum said already that they sell to manufacturers only. No retail. He contacted with them by mail.


----------



## FredA

DACLadder said:


> The unprotected mode... that's why I like it better perhaps. Makes sense!  LOL
> 
> The U16 uses Accusilicon oscillators.  Anyone know a vendor that sells Accusilicon oscillators?  I would like to modify my DAC if I can find the right type.
> 
> I have called Accusilicon sales offices in California several times and only get a recording.  Never a returned call.  Just want to know where and how these oscillators can be purchased.


Well now i got to try this! This standard mode is calling me!


----------



## Whitigir

rafabro said:


> Someone on this or another forum said already that they sell to manufacturers only. No retail. He contacted with them by mail.



Yeah, and they only sell by thousands of unit and not only hundreds ...it is crazy,  BUt their oscilliators are the top of the line for it specs and parameters.  Unless OCXO.

It is possible to upgrade U16 into OCXO if you modify regulator ? But that would be very invasive


----------



## wwmhf

a non-invasive option: external clock?


----------



## Chopin75

DACLadder said:


> The Gustard U16 1.58 f/w in 'STD' mode rocks the house with AGD R7 DAC over HDMI I2S.  More open, dynamic, and holographic versus '0 dB' - slight but noticed on several tunes.  Jeez, when I thought it could not get any better!
> 
> Would be nice to know the technical reason for '0dB' and 'STD' modes....


What does ST Stand for ? ( I know it is not "sexually transmitted disease"!? )


----------



## Chopin75

Whitigir said:


> Yeah, and they only sell by thousands of unit and not only hundreds ...it is crazy,  BUt their oscilliators are the top of the line for it specs and parameters.  Unless OCXO.
> 
> It is possible to upgrade U16 into OCXO if you modify regulator ? But that would be very invasive


Any resellers on Ebay or from Taiwan/Hong Kong?  But may be hard to confirm origin.


----------



## DACLadder

@Chopin75 I believe ‘STD’ on the U16 implies “standard” vs 0 dB.  But could be wrong (not the first time).

I can’t find any information describing the differences.


----------



## FredA

DACLadder said:


> @Chopin75 I believe ‘STD’ on the U16 implies “standard” vs 0 dB.  But could be wrong (not the first time).
> 
> I can’t find any information describing the differences.



You are right about the std mode. I think it’s more raw, more lively. Whatever it is. The 0db can be a little too polite for specific albums. But I still have to try others hdmi cables. The f-1, on the best nights would be as good if not a tad better. But on average, the u16 is safely on top.

So far, what i like the most about the u16 is the fact that the sound is pretty much the same from one night to the other, and it’s more laid back.


----------



## rafabro

Whitigir said:


> Yeah, and they only sell by thousands of unit and not only hundreds ...it is crazy,  BUt their oscilliators are the top of the line for it specs and parameters.  Unless OCXO.
> 
> It is possible to upgrade U16 into OCXO if you modify regulator ? But that would be very invasive


All you need to do is provide clock signal to pcb. New (any) clock can be powered from separate voltage regulator.

Are the Accusilicone so good? I dont know that and have no prove or someone opinion after test even. Datasheet never says anything about sound quality.

I know one thing. In my Gustard X20 was Accusilicone clock and I replaced it


----------



## Thenewguy007

How do you guys replace the clock? Does it just pry/snap off or is it soldered on


----------



## FredA (Jan 2, 2019)

I check my settings this morning and realized that i was in 0 db mode. Maybe the perceived impression of change i got was from the fact the gustard was cold.or just the new fw.

Anyway, i switced to the std mode to find out what it was: it allows hw volume control. The 0 dB makes the volume fixed.i had a clue from the fact that the volume was not at 100% but much attenuated. I activacted hw volume control in volumio and was able to change the gustard’s volume level from volumio. But in the end, just disabled all this and set the u16 to 0dB.

Just received my 1 meter black mamba hdmi cable. So far, i would say it sounds more dynamic compared to the primecables mamba series .5 meter. Enjoyable sound, even cold out of my frozen mail box.


----------



## FredA

Just realize the new fw does not play 192/24 file properly. Square-wave-like sound. Anyone else with the same issue?


----------



## Albrecht

MarkR7 said:


> Read thru the entire thread folks, and learned a lot about the U16. Great info!
> 
> Has anyone compared the U16 to the Matrix X-SPDIF2? I use one with an Uptone LPS1.2 power supply, and I like it a lot. Just wondering if I can improve on my system by incorporating the U16, and by what aspects?
> 
> Happy New Year!!


Hi,
Happy New Year
Yes, - I had and sold the Matrix2. I gave the Matrix more than 2 months of run-in and found it to be significantly worse than the F-1. The Gustard u16 blows the Matrix away. I am going to compare the u16 to the F-1 this weekend. I am loving the u16.


----------



## Albrecht

FredA said:


> The u16 does not have the best power supply it seems but uses multiple fpgas to avoid clock signal contamination by other signals, and by business logic processing. And it is based on the ESS chip. So it is a whole new design intended to minimise jitter. And from what i hear, it is a superior one. The Accusilicon are also excellent oscillators and most certainly contribute to the excellent sound. If i were you, i would just order one.


I really have to agree with all of that. I loved the F-1 and thought that it blew-away the SU-1 and the Matrix2 and several other USB to SPDIF Converters that I have tried. This weekend I will do a shootout. Unlike the SU-1, modifying the u16 with a DC LPS would be a PITA and I wouldn't even consider doing it myself.


----------



## FredA (Jan 2, 2019)

Albrecht said:


> I really have to agree with all of that. I loved the F-1 and thought that it blew-away the SU-1 and the Matrix2 and several other USB to SPDIF Converters that I have tried. This weekend I will do a shootout. Unlike the SU-1, modifying the u16 with a DC LPS would be a PITA and I wouldn't even consider doing it myself.


I think there is no need to mod it.

I confirm there is indeed an issue woth the latest fw, playing 192/32 through i2s with the psa format. I flashed back the psa fw and 192/32 is fine, but 176/32 emits some whistleling noise though the music. Quite loud. So all is not perfect...


----------



## FredA

I am with  Volumio on a pi 3b+ and using an  intona. I set the audio buffer to 8mb and all is fine now using the psa fw. Go figure...


----------



## wwmhf

FredA said:


> Just realize the new fw does not play 192/24 file properly. Square-wave-like sound. Anyone else with the same issue?



I would like to follow FredA's comment and let you all know that this 1.58 FW seems to have a few shortcomings. I am using it together with a Gustard X20 connected with a HDMI cable. I use forbar2000 to play music on a Windows 10 computer. 

Here is the list of concerns with 1.58 FW:

1. It does not have a software control for the buffer, the Singxer SU-1's driver has one
2. Upsampling CD wave files to DSD512 works only for a couple of minutes, then noise appears. When noise appears, the sampling rate display on X20 DAC flicks which suggests some kind of synchronization issue between U16 and X20. Maximizing the buffer size in forbar2000 does no help. I had this kind of issue when using SU-1 with X20, but it was resolved by increasing the buffer size via the software of SU-1. 
3. Upsampling CD wave files to DSD256 works acceptably, noise/pop appears once in a long while, but it does appear.

Now, I flashed the U16 back to the 1.4 FW. The issue listed in 2. is mitigated obviously so that listening to my CD wave files up-sampled to DSD512 seems to be doable (no comments on the quality of the music, "doable" simply means no issues with noise/pop or synchronization). The issue in 3. above almost disappears.


----------



## FredA

wwmhf said:


> I would like to follow FredA's comment and let you all know that this 1.58 FW seems to have a few shortcomings. I am using it together with a Gustard X20 connected with a HDMI cable. I use forbar2000 to play music on a Windows 10 computer.
> 
> Here is the list of concerns with 1.58 FW:
> 
> ...



I still have issues with  176/32 going back to 1.4 as well, but i can live with it. They need to do more testing i guess.


----------



## wwmhf

I have to admit that the way I want to use U16 may have pushed its envelop too much


----------



## DACLadder

@FredA  Thanks for explaining ‘std’ and ‘0 db’ mode. 

I occassionally have issues when starting to play 176khz and 192khz files.  If i start and stop the track or briefly go to a track with a different sampling rate and return to the noisy track it will play fine.  And continues to play all tracks OK until sampling rate changes. 176khz is worse of the two speeds.  Windows 10 machine.


----------



## jimmychan (Jan 3, 2019)

I have same problem on 176 & 192KHz files with V1.58 FW.

But I can live with it and don't want to fall back lower versions.


----------



## batfier (Jan 3, 2019)

FredA said:


> Just realize the new fw does not play 192/24 file properly. Square-wave-like sound. Anyone else with the same issue?



Same here 

Already emailed to support:

Using "Auralic Aries Femto" as a source and several Dac's (RME ADI-2 Pro Fs BE; Audio GD R7; Chord Hugo 2)

Trying to isolate the problem and making sure it really the U16:

Using a direct USB connection between "Aries Femto" and "RME ADI-2 pro", there are no issues at all, even when I upsample in "Aries Femto" up to 768khz.

Putting the U16 in between (same USB Cable as before now connecting to U16 and using digital coax cable (75ohm) to RME ADI 2, I'm getting the problems with 176/192khz/16 and 24 bit.

I also tested with HDMI/I2S (PSA mode) and XLR connection from U16  to AudioGD R7, same problem. And also Hugo2 via coax (U16>BNC) same issue.

Just exchanging U16 with "Sinxger SU-1" (same cables, etc), everything works perfect.

Furthermore the RME ADI-2 pro has a feature to detect a bit perfect transfer, for some special files, with different sampling rates and bit depth (see their website for: Bit Test Wav files for ADI-2 Pro, ADI-2 AE and ADI-2 DAC, includes 16 / 24 / 32 bit test at 44.1, 96 and 192 kHz sample rate.):
With direct USB connection from Aries, the RME ADI 2 detects all files as bit perfect transfer. Putting the U16 in the middle, RME detects bit perfect transfer only for 44.1 and 96 kHz sample rate (16 and 24 bit), but not for 192 kHz (even in the time before the distortions starts). While distortions is ongoing the RME shows "invalid SPDIF signal", seems to reconnect for a fraction of a second and loses sync again, reconnect, loses again...


----------



## Albrecht

FredA said:


> I think there is no need to mod it.
> 
> I confirm there is indeed an issue woth the latest fw, playing 192/32 through i2s with the psa format. I flashed back the psa fw and 192/32 is fine, but 176/32 emits some whistleling noise though the music. Quite loud. So all is not perfect...



I agree. I just mentioned because not having an external DC output LPS is one thing that people site as a "problem" and reason for not buying it. But as has been mentioned, the processing through the FPGA chips and Sabre processor mitigate this. Also, - I know that the SU-1 is a totally different XMOS based box, - but it's internal power supply was/is quite easily circumvented with a simple mod, and that significantly improves the performance. In the case of the U16, - (as you say), - performing this much more challenging mod would likely not affect it.

I just am running AIFF files from a Sonore ultraRendu at the 16/44 level and output via the humble SPDIF COAX connector, - so I am grateful to you all who are mentioning some of these issues with the firmware upgrades. Best for me to wait.

Cheers, and thank you.


----------



## rafabro

Albrecht said:


> ..In the case of the U16, - (as you say), - performing this much more challenging mod would likely not affect it...



Well, we don't know this until someone try to make some changes. For the moment nobody can say anything 'for sure'.

It looks like I will stay with fw1.4 as everything works perfect for me and I'm gonna hold until they fix latest firmware.


----------



## Albrecht

rafabro said:


> Well, we don't know this until someone try to make some changes. For the moment nobody can say anything 'for sure'.
> 
> It looks like I will stay with fw1.4 as everything works perfect for me and I'm gonna hold until they fix latest firmware.



Hi, I agree..... (I guess I was just simply speculating on the speculations).  
I am not sure what ver of the firmware I have, - I was one of the first to order & receive as soon as it became available. And, AFAIK, the only way to tell what version you have is start the process of the upgrade? Is that correct?
Anyway, - I'm not trying to run DSD, DOP, or am using anything but the RCA/SPDIF/COAX connector. So, - I likely will not perform the firmware upgrade until I hear of a later update that people say enhances the SQ even more. 
Besides, - I'm really enjoying my U16 just as is.....


----------



## darren700 (Jan 3, 2019)

Just got my U16 running. Came with old firmware, so I had to flash to V1.58
My computer wouldn't detect the current firmware no matter what USB port I plugged it into, so I tried with my older laptop and it worked right away. (USB 2.0 Ports Required)
I translated the Chinese in the upgrade instructions and it said:
"If the following picture is abnormal, you need to replace the USB port that U16 is connected to. Please try to use the native 2.0 USB port. Because the USB interface priority on the computer is different, some USB ports are not suitable for firmware upgrade."

After flashing to V1.58 and setting firmware to PSA everything worked right away, even with my complex setup. Chain below:

Jriver PC -----> 2 Port Intel Ethernet Bridged ----> SOTM sMS-200 (Uptone LPS-1) -----> Audio Sensibility Statement Silver USB Cable 0.7m -----> Uptone ISOREGEN (Uptone LPS-1) -----> Uptone USPCB A>B Adapter -----> Gustard U16 ----->  0.5m Prime Cables Mamba HDMI ----> Audio-GD R2R7

sounds great so far, but lots of burn in to go.
Just PCM for now as I am having an issue with DSD on my R2R-7 (static, no sound). I think the R2R7 V2 firmware caused this as it was working with V1. Will try DSD again after I flash to V3 in a week or 2.

Some pictures below:
Full size pics here: 
https://imgur.com/a/b3AGQYY


----------



## FredA

batfier said:


> Same here
> 
> Already emailed to support:
> 
> ...


Thanks for  notifying them, as it is even the 1.4 version has issues.


----------



## FredA

darren700 said:


> Just got my U16 running. Came with old firmware, so I had to flash to V1.58
> My computer wouldn't detect the current firmware no matter what USB port I plugged it into, so I tried with my older laptop and it worked right away. (USB 2.0 Ports Required)
> I translated the Chinese in the upgrade instructions and it said:
> "If the following picture is abnormal, you need to replace the USB port that U16 is connected to. Please try to use the native 2.0 USB port. Because the USB interface priority on the computer is different, some USB ports are not suitable for firmware upgrade."
> ...


The he350 is HUGE!


----------



## darren700

FredA said:


> The he350 is HUGE!


haha yes it is, it's like a space heater too, very hot to the touch, i love it though and will never sell it. I also replaced the stock outlets with Furutechs for good measure.

Back on topic, with the U16:
I tested 96khz and 192khz and it played ok. 
176khz did not. 

90% 44khz so far and it has been rock solid. sounds good but I can tell it needs some time to burn in.


----------



## FredA

darren700 said:


> haha yes it is, it's like a space heater too, very hot to the touch, i love it though and will never sell it. I also replaced the stock outlets with Furutechs for good measure.
> 
> Back on topic, with the U16:
> I tested 96khz and 192khz and it played ok.
> ...


It definitlely needs 200 hours. And by the way, the one meter hdmi cable by yellow-price really beats the primecables you have. They call it the black mamba in the description page. Got it two days ago, it should even get better.


----------



## FredA (Jan 3, 2019)

My setup now sounds really really well. Best sound ever. The new hdmi cable brought better dynamics and bass extension. Imaging is also better. I am now expecting a hdmi 2.1 cable within two weeks, should probably be even better.

The sound i get has such definition now and smoothness, it is ridiculously good. The u16 is a great sounding unit at a very raisonable price.


----------



## darren700

FredA said:


> It definitlely needs 200 hours. And by the way, the one meter hdmi cable by yellow-price really beats the primecables you have. They call it the black mamba in the description page. Got it two days ago, it should even get better.



Thanks,
Is this the cable you are talking about? (ebay link) (i'm having trouble finding it)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3ft-1M-Sho...ARC-For-PS3-PS4-XBOX-ONE-SKY-TV-/142715680597

I have 2 other cables on the way to try also: Audioquest 0.6m Chocolate and the same ebay 1M HDMI 2.1 cable you linked earlier in this thread


----------



## FredA

darren700 said:


> Thanks,
> Is this the cable you are talking about? (ebay link) (i'm having trouble finding it)
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3ft-1M-Sho...ARC-For-PS3-PS4-XBOX-ONE-SKY-TV-/142715680597
> 
> I have 2 other cables on the way to try also: Audioquest 0.6m Chocolate and the same ebay 1M HDMI 2.1 cable you linked earlier in this thread


Yep. That’s the one.

Don ‘t forget, longer can be better. 0fframp recommends 1.5 meters as optimal length. I went 1m for the 2.1 cable as well. 1 meter is certainly not a bad value. Right now, i am listening to Sonny Rollins. This record never sounded so good (A night at the Village Vanguard)

 The difference is not huge but big enough to be heard and enjoyed.


----------



## darren700

FredA said:


> Yep. That’s the one.
> 
> Don ‘t forget, longer can be better. 0fframp recommends 1.5 meters as optimal length. I went 1m for the 2.1 cable as well. 1 meter is certainly not a bad value. Right now, i am listening to Sonny Rollins. This record never sounded so good (A night at the Village Vanguard)
> 
> The difference is not huge but big enough to be heard and enjoyed.



Thanks. I was under the impression that for I2S shorter is better? or is LVDS a different type of signal that can travel further?


----------



## FredA (Jan 3, 2019)

darren700 said:


> Thanks. I was under the impression that for I2S shorter is better? or is LVDS a different type of signal that can travel further?


The new cables have much better consistancy so will cause less reflexions due to inconsistant impedance thoughout the length of the cable. Attenuation figures are also better. So what happens is the reflexions happening at the interfaces (connectors) can have less impact because they will tend to add themselves in phase with more optimal cable lengths.

  On the other hand, if there are no reflection caused by mismatched impedances at the connectors, a shorter cable is better. Hdmi-i2s is also a balanced transmission so it is not as sensitive to length as rj45 cause the most of the noise caught during the signal travel will be rejected by the differential input,

[ edit]

Or it could be that the reflexion after getting back to the source and back again to destination gets attenuated to a larger extent and has less impact. I am not a practicing ee so i am quite rusted.


----------



## yolop

Hi,
you should try this one :
https://www.ebay.de/itm/HDMI-CABLE-...f2591a7a3:m:mMyLcGxPSQ7M8JAGJnCqSlA:rk:8:pf:0

it is from MPS
top of the line
regards
Jürgen


----------



## darren700

FredA said:


> The new cables have much better consistancy so will cause less reflexions due to inconsistant impedance thoughout the length of the cable. Attenuation figures are also better. So what happens is the reflexions happening at the interfaces (connectors) can have less impact because they will tend to add themselves in phase with more optimal cable lengths.
> 
> On the other hand, if there are no reflection caused by mismatched impedances at the connectors, a shorter cable is better. Hdmi-i2s is also a balanced transmission so it is not as sensitive to length as rj45 cause the most of the noise caught during the signal travel will be rejected by the differential input,
> 
> ...



Wow, thanks for the quite detailed explanation. I did not realize that HDMI was balanced!


----------



## rafabro

Albrecht said:


> ...the only way to tell what version you have is start the process of the upgrade? Is that correct?..


No, you can just read fw version without updating. Just run software provided for fw update and will display what you have.


----------



## FredA

yolop said:


> Hi,
> you should try this one :
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/HDMI-CABLE-...f2591a7a3:m:mMyLcGxPSQ7M8JAGJnCqSlA:rk:8:pf:0
> 
> ...


I saw this one but then saw the 2.1 flat cable. Might try it after...

Just received it by the way. It’s a beefy cable with really massive and impressively built connectors. So far so good. But i can’t compare with the black mamba yet cause i just received the allo usbrigde, and this made my sound different. The allo  needs to burn in for at least 100 hours. Then i will compare the newest cable with the black mamba. Right now, my pref would go to the black mamba but just a guess. Not sure whatsoever. And the cable needs to burn as well.


----------



## Thenewguy007

FredA said:


> I saw this one but then saw the 2.1 flat cable. Might try it after...
> 
> Just received it by the way. It’s a beefy cable with really massive and impressively built connectors. So far so good. But i can’t compare with the black mamba yet cause i just received the allo usbrigde, and this made my sound different. The allo  needs to burn in for at least 100 hours. Then i will compare the newest cable with the black mamba. Right now, my pref would go to the black mamba but just a guess. Not sure whatsoever. And the cable needs to burn as well.



Can you post the link to the flat 2.1 cable?


----------



## FredA

Thenewguy007 said:


> Can you post the link to the flat 2.1 cable?


That’s the one:


´https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Enthusiast-...var=492856460603&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## Sage Encore

Hi Guys,
Can the unit be used with Pontus DAC? I am currently using Singxer SU-1. Thank you for taking the time.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Sage Encore said:


> Hi Guys,
> Can the unit be used with Pontus DAC? I am currently using Singxer SU-1. Thank you for taking the time.



Yeah, if it works with a Singxer SU-1, it will work with a U16.


----------



## FredA

Thenewguy007 said:


> Yeah, if it works with a Singxer SU-1, it will work with a U16.


The su-1 uses the ps audio i2s convention, which is supported by the u16.


----------



## Sage Encore

Thenewguy007 said:


> Yeah, if it works with a Singxer SU-1, it will work with a U16.


Thank you so much buddy, much appreciated.


----------



## Sage Encore

FredA said:


> The su-1 uses the ps audio i2s convention, which is supported by the u16.


Thank you bud, will it be a good upgrade in terms of SQ or a side grade? Inputs are welcome before I pull the trigger.


----------



## FredA

Sage Encore said:


> Thank you bud, will it be a good upgrade in terms of SQ or a side grade? Inputs are welcome before I pull the trigger.


From the f-1, it’s an upgrade and a clear one. Smoother. More resolved as well.


----------



## motberg

+1 on the smoother comment (compared to modded SU-1 using Uptone LPS-1)

So far (I have only been listening to the U16 seriously a couple days), I think U16's inner resolution and layering in the midrange bands is amazing, I have already had quite a few moments just shocked on the additional midrange information the U16 can pull out of the recording. Also the U16 bass overall quality seems to be superior to the SU-1.

As of now, with only about 50 hours break-in time, the U16 seems not so "airy" (or maybe described as not so "grainy") in the highs yet.. ultimate soundstage depth and width seems maybe 90% of the SU-1, but I made some software adjustments (changed the AO OS processing filters from 4A to 4D) which expanded the image somewhat. My high-frequency hearing starts dropping off around 12K, so that may be cause for this observation.  

I am using the U16 feeding (via i2s - 0.5M Silversonic HDMI cable) an Audio-GD NOS7 DAC (both powered by HE-350). In my case the U16 was definitely an upgrade over the stock SU-1 (w/HE-350). Comparison to a modded SU-1 may be more dependent on personal preference and associated equipment, but if my initial observations are correct, it would be hard for someone to give up the U16 midrange, bass and darker background attributes once they have been experienced.


----------



## rafabro

Sage Encore said:


> Thank you bud, will it be a good upgrade in terms of SQ or a side grade? Inputs are welcome before I pull the trigger.


Go ahead. It is worth to do it.


----------



## FredA (Jan 6, 2019)

motberg said:


> +1 on the smoother comment (compared to modded SU-1 using Uptone LPS-1)
> 
> So far (I have only been listening to the U16 seriously a couple days), I think U16's inner resolution and layering in the midrange bands is amazing, I have already had quite a few moments just shocked on the additional midrange information the U16 can pull out of the recording. Also the U16 bass overall quality seems to be superior to the SU-1.
> 
> ...


The soundstage will vastly improve between 100 and 200 hours and bass will go lower.


----------



## Sage Encore

rafabro said:


> Go ahead. It is worth to do it.


Thank you sir, will I need to adjust any setting on the Pontus DAC. I am not sure if you can help but it would be much appreciated.

 Looks like I will have one more item for an upcoming sale then. LOL


----------



## Sage Encore

FredA said:


> The soundstage will vastly improve between 100 and 200 hours and bass will go lower.


Noted sir, thank you very much


----------



## batfier (Jan 6, 2019)

Sage Encore said:


> Thank you bud, will it be a good upgrade in terms of SQ or a side grade? Inputs are welcome before I pull the trigger.



depending on how golden your ears are and if you like to "tinker around" more than enjoing music 

The display of the sample rate is very nice.
The "dip" less change for IIS setup for HDMI as well.
Also ability to output 384khz over coax is pretty nice for upsampling and connection to Hugo2,
additonal toslink output too.

But, so far Gustard has not been able to provided a firmware for the U16, thats entirely works for all outputs and sample rates / bits. Really hope, it only about software not hardware issues.

The SU-1 has no display, dip's to change IIS setup (not a big deal, as not changed often), coax output "limited" to (standard conform) 192khz (except for IIS/HDMI), no toslink. SU-1 has galvanic isolation for USB, not sure about the U16.

But SU-1 simply works *reliable and with no bad surprise*, for all it's specified!!! Never ever had any problem.

Differences in SQ are very subtle (if any), at least to "SU-1 magna edition" which I use for comparation.

May be, feeding it from Aries (Femto Clocks) incl. upgraded LPS, already provides a pretty good USB signal in comparision to other some sources, which may be benefit from a DDC more.

At least SU-1 and U16 (currently limited to the working sample rates) provides a bit-perfect transport to the DAC (Tested for RME ADI-2 Pro Fs). This even works with a "un-burned out"  10 EUR cordial 75 ohm digital coax cable, as well as with more expensive wireworld or viablue cables, e.g.

When all bits are coming through it's a "solid foundation" and it's depends on your DAC, if he can benfit from a clock signal even more accurate then required, for "just" transfering the bits correctly.

Also the effect of galvanic isolation depend on your other components and how well they e.g. manage HF influences already.


----------



## rafabro

Sage Encore said:


> Thank you sir, will I need to adjust any setting on the Pontus DAC. I am not sure if you can help but it would be much appreciated.
> 
> Looks like I will have one more item for an upcoming sale then. LOL


Have your Pontus hdmi or RJ45 I2S input socket?
Nothing to do on Pontus side. On U16 you will change I2S config, see latest firmware.


----------



## FredA (Jan 6, 2019)

batfier said:


> depending on how golden your ears are and if you like to "tinker around" more than enjoing music
> 
> The display of the sample rate is very nice.
> The "dip" less change for IIS setup for HDMI as well.
> ...



The su-1 magna version costs twice as much! I would go u16 all the way. They will fix the fw at some point.


----------



## batfier (Jan 6, 2019)

FredA said:


> The su-1 magna version costs twice as much! I would go u16 all the way. They will fix the fw at some point.



right, when looking for the "first DDC", the pricepoint of the U16 is a big advantage.

when considering an upgrade of an exstings DDC like SU-1, question is how big will be to improvement even to the standard SU-1 version.

Regarding fixing the firmware, I have currently limited hope, if that will be soon. After exchanging several emails with the support, explaining the issue in detail and things done to isolated the problem, last message was, if it works with Apple system:

"If the U16 working well with Apple system,perhaps the U16 is in good condition.
And please you can change another USB port and try it again with Windows system."

So just in case someone had tried latest fw with apple, pls let me know the results.

thanks

p.s. unitl U16 fw is fixed, I will "survive", without any problems with the SU-1


----------



## darren700 (Jan 6, 2019)

So im really enjoying my U16 so far, still lots of burn in to go but sounds great, definitely a step up from the amanero in my R2R-7.

I have noticed that sometimes it will stop in between tracks and i have to select a new one to start playing, but that may be due to my complex setup.
(DLNA via Jriver to SMS-200, then Uptone ISOREGEN before U16)
but note I never had this problem before the U16 was inserted into the chain, but its not a huge issue.

Cant wait to play around with some other HDMI cables when they arrive. (1M Flat Ebay HDMI 2.1, 1M Yellowprice Black Mamba and  0.5m Audioquest Chocolate on the way)

I listen to 99.9% 44khz PCM via I2S HDMI so the fact that 176khz or other outputs aren't working right for me hasn't bothered me at all, but im still hoping future firmware's solve these issues.

I actually just placed an order for a second U16 to use in my headphone system with my Audio-GD R2R-1 (soon to be R1).
im hoping to see the same improvements with my R2R1 that I am experienceing with my R2R-7


----------



## Thenewguy007

Good news, looks like http://www.ghentaudio.com can make a DC adapter for the U16, so people can use a linear power supply like the Uptone LPS-1 to get a improvement in sound.
_
They said this:_
_"Basically, I think we could make this kit for Gustard U16, but we need to know something first._

_Do you have the detail picture inside the DAC, especially near the power inlet? Also the the detail picture once removing the power inlet from rear-plate._
_And, do you know the exact size of cut-hole for power inlet in rear-plate? "_

Unfortunately, my order from Shenzhen Audio still hasn't shipped (been over a week). 
Can anyone help with this? Can you guys open the case & take pics near the power inlet, maybe see what manufacture it is from & maybe a close up shot of the 5 pin connectior?


----------



## Ludique

Shenzhen audio seems to be out of stock, because they haven't shipped mine either, I ordered last Tuesday.

Inputting dc won't help at all unless you remove the five pin regulator (and possibly some resistors) on board. So it's not just about an adapter.


----------



## wwmhf

Agree. 

Substituting the power supply of U16 is far more demanding than those devices using an external power supply or independent power supply module.


----------



## Ludique

The regulator is LT1764 and clearly those two resistors are for setting the voltage.


----------



## Whitigir

Ludique said:


> The regulator is LT1764 and clearly those two resistors are for setting the voltage.



LT1764 is pretty respectable for hi-fi PSU as well


----------



## Albrecht

rafabro said:


> No, you can just read fw version without updating. Just run software provided for fw update and will display what you have.



thank you very much!

Cheers,


----------



## rafabro

Whitigir said:


> LT1764 is pretty respectable for hi-fi PSU as well


Exactly. I wouldn't change it.


----------



## FredA

batfier said:


> right, when looking for the "first DDC", the pricepoint of the U16 is a big advantage.
> 
> when considering an upgrade of an exstings DDC like SU-1, question is how big will be to improvement even to the standard SU-1 version.
> 
> ...


They better wake up cause most people owning the u16 have issues they did not have before introducing the u16 in their setup. I had the f-1 before and no issue whatsoever.  

192k works the first time out, 176k does not, and after a 176k attempt, 192k becomes garbage. There are obvious bugs in this firmware (1.4). The latest is even worst. Too bad cause all other rates play just fine. Also to be considered is most people use pcs. So the mac argument does not hold. Get back to work, Gustard! The job is incompete.


----------



## darren700 (Jan 7, 2019)

FredA said:


> They better wake up cause most people owning the u16 have issues they did not have before introducing the u16 in their setup. I had the f-1 before and no issue whatsoever.
> 
> 192k works the first time out, 176k does not, and after a 176k attempt, 192k becomes garbage. There are obvious bugs in this firmware (1.4). The latest is even worst. Too bad cause all other rates play just fine. Also to be considered is most people use pcs. So the mac argument does not hold. Get back to work, Gustard! The job is incompete.



I wonder if it would make a difference if more of us sent emails to customer support complaining of these issues? maybe only a couple people are emailing support about these issues and therefore they are underestimating the importance of getting these issues fixed?
I think it might help if all of us having these issues emailed gustard support, maybe it will kick their ass into gear fixing these problems in future firmware updates?? what is the support email? I will send them one explaining my issues.  I did more testing tonight and 192khz and DSD do not sound proper at all, they work but there is pops in the sound and it sounds like bass is sucked out, like the square wave sound others were describing earlier. 176khz does not work at all.


----------



## jimmychan

Please summarize the firmware problems here.
I can send direct to Mr. Huang, the owner of Gustard.


----------



## wwmhf (Jan 8, 2019)

So far, I like U16/firmware 1.4 better than Singxer SU-1 with the newest firmware. This comparision is based on up-sampling CD wave files to DSD256


----------



## jimmychan

U16 is definitely better than SU1. Just how is it compared to SU6?


----------



## FredA (Jan 8, 2019)

jimmychan said:


> Please summarize the firmware problems here.
> I can send direct to Mr. Huang, the owner of Gustard.



1. 176/24 is played with heavy noise
2. 196/24 becomes noisy skipping from a 176/24 file

I am able to reproduce those issues on both a rpi 3b+ and a Allo Usbridge running Volumio.


----------



## rafabro

I am still using 1.4 and have zero (0!) problems. Music flows, full nirvana with any type of file resolution...


----------



## darren700

FredA said:


> 1. 176/24 is played with heavy noise
> 2. 196/24 becomes noisy skipping from a 176/24 file
> 
> I am able to reproduce those issues on both a rpi 3b+ and a Allo Usbridge running Volumio.



I have very similar issues with my U16, fed by SOTM SMS-200 and connected to Audio-GD R2R-7

176/24 will not play at all
192/24 plays but does not sound correct, bass sucked out and becomes worse as song progresses, and song cuts out midway


----------



## allhifi

wwmhf said:


> So far, I like U16/firmware 1.4 better than Singxer SU-1 with the newest firmware. This comparision is based on up-sampling CD wave files to DSD256



Wow; that's impressive that U-16 'beats' (superior to) SU-1 Singxer (a respected Spdif Bridge). How it compares to something 250% more expensive (SU-6), is almost irrelevant -as $699. US$ is a fair chunk-of-change !

And at that price (SU-6),  a missing  LP/S and absent display window (i.e. Input Selected/Fs/etc.) is disappointing.

I'm using the excellent U-12 ($150 US$!) with AQ Carbon USB (1.5m) -and AQ 'Chocolate' HDMi i2S Out) and it sounds spectacular ! (Tried the AQ 'Vodka' HDMi -for i2S duties and it was a terrible 'match')

(My digital is powered by a separate (8-AC Outlet) 800W Balanced Power Supply/Transformer,while Pre/Power on a 1.2KVa BPS/T; essential for extracting high-resolution  performance from a hi-fi.
 The improvements in clarity, dynamics, resolution, signal speed/articulation; musicality, is considerable. )

I suspect the U-16 may be 'clearly' superior (to the U-12?
I'll order one is someone can provide a decent comparison compared to U-12, or SU-1 Singxer. Without question I'll order another AQ Chocolate' for i2S duty.

(BTW, a recent DH Labs USB cable (1.5m) purchase simply annihilated a 3m WW Starlight 7 USB -that although "rich/analog" sounding is ultimately deeply veiled/colored in comparison.
If speed, resolution/articulation -accuracy- is preferred, the DH Labs USB or AQ 'Carbon' wold be recommended. 
Currently, I've evaluating the AQ 'Coffee' (0.75m) USB -with near 100-hours logged, it's proving disappointing.) 

The  U-12 -with Carbon USB/Chocolate i2S- sounds much, much better. (Don't bother with Shunyata (Venom) USB if 'speed/resolution' is desired -it is one of the worst I've heard.) 

I remain and continue to be mightily impressed with computer audio (via a simple SBC 'player' no less) -and Internet Radio !
The days of crappy sounding 128-320 kb/s streams is over, and nothing short of impressive -when transmitted using the best, current "Converters/Compression Algorithms". 

I can't wait to store my CD's on a various Hard-Drives/SS Drives (WAV of course) -and listen in this manner. Today's 'digital' can be brilliant !  

Sooooo .... if anyone has some interesting 'insight' into the U-16 Gustard, please share -it would be appreciated. Thx,
(Standard 'performance'/ Fs is all that is of interest to me with the U-16; DoP, DSD matters not.) 

Thanks in advance,

pj


----------



## allhifi

motberg said:


> +1 on the smoother comment (compared to modded SU-1 using Uptone LPS-1)
> 
> So far (I have only been listening to the U16 seriously a couple days), I think U16's inner resolution and layering in the midrange bands is amazing, I have already had quite a few moments just shocked on the additional midrange information the U16 can pull out of the recording. Also the U16 bass overall quality seems to be superior to the SU-1.
> 
> ...





motberg said:


> +1 on the smoother comment (compared to modded SU-1 using Uptone LPS-1)
> 
> So far (I have only been listening to the U16 seriously a couple days), I think U16's inner resolution and layering in the midrange bands is amazing, I have already had quite a few moments just shocked on the additional midrange information the U16 can pull out of the recording. Also the U16 bass overall quality seems to be superior to the SU-1.
> 
> ...



Hi Motberg: I just asked/posted a reply/question about the U-16 regarding the very thing you speak-of (and that was of interest to me), namely, SQ:

"  I think U16's inner resolution and layering in the midrange bands is amazing, I have already had quite a few moments just shocked on the additional midrange information the U16 can pull out of the recording. 

THAT"S precisely the SQ 'descriptors' of interest to me; precision mid-band resolution/layering ! Count me in. (BTW, better than U-12 ?)

Regarding: " ....Also the U16 bass overall quality seems to be superior to the SU-1." -How would you qualify 'superior' ?

Many thanks,

peter


----------



## allhifi

rafabro said:


> I am still using 1.4 and have zero (0!) problems. Music flows, full nirvana with any type of file resolution...



rafabro: Using the Gustard U-16 ?

pj


----------



## FredA

allhifi said:


> Wow; that's impressive that U-16 'beats' (superior to) SU-1 Singxer (a respected Spdif Bridge). How it compares to something 250% more expensive (SU-6), is almost irrelevant -as $699. US$ is a fair chunk-of-change !
> 
> And at that price (SU-6),  a missing  LP/S and absent display window (i.e. Input Selected/Fs/etc.) is disappointing.
> 
> ...



There is a thread on xu208 ddcs started by rb2013 two years ago. He went from the Gustard u12 to the di-u8 to the f-1 and stated he prefered the singxer f-1 to the di-u8, which itself he prefered to the u12. And it’s been stated that when fed optimally, the su-1 and f-1 are pretty much equal,  @DACLadder did mention this.

The singxer offerings are reputed since their original release as beating the u12 by a clear margin.

As for the u16 vs the f-1, IMHO: the f-1 is clearly beaten.

See the xu208 thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xmo...gen-has-arrived.803111/page-234#post-12867965


----------



## allhifi

Whitigir said:


> Yeah, DHl Express free shipping....even faster than domestic Postal service or UPS LoL.....
> 
> 
> It is an awesome investment for $285.  I had been waiting for something else that is not XMOS or FPGA with ugly firmware and algorithm like Amanero for too long X_X, and I had to grab this U16 LOL
> ...



Oh man, those are the words that speak magic to me ! 

(RE: " ....everything from much better bass articulation with greater dynamic, more airy and better upper frequencies". 

The bass articulation/resolution being particularly telling -of an excellent/accurate design !

Ever go on sale (U-16), say for $249-$269 ?
 (I realize $299. (US$) is VERY fair, but converted to the crappy/weak CA$ currency, it adds about another $100..... Argghh )

pj


----------



## allhifi

FredA said:


> There is a thread on xu208 ddcs started by rb2013 two years ago. He went from the Gustard u12 to the di-u8 to the f-1 and stated he prefered the singxer f-1 to the di-u8, which itself he prefered to the u12. And it’s been stated that when fed optimally, the su-1 and f-1 are pretty much equal,  @DACLadder did mention this.
> 
> The singxer offerings are reputed since their original release as beating the u12 by a clear margin.
> 
> ...


----------



## rafabro

allhifi said:


> rafabro: Using the Gustard U-16 ?
> 
> pj


Yes I am


----------



## FredA

The allo usbridge together with the u16 and the mentioned chinese hdmi 2.1 cable sound splendidly together. I feed the usbridge with a pair of ultra-low noise chinese lps i got off ebay. I run Volumio. My dac is the audio-gd r-7. We are talking first grade transport IMO. I also have an intona between the usbridge and  u16, i should try without at some point out of curiosity,

If the sounds remains as it has been for the last 3 nights, i would say my setup won’t change for a very long while, not for the basic ingredients at least. I now hear distinctly details that were muffled before. The sound is smooth, relaxed, dynamic. Imaging is accurate, bass, piano and drums, listening to Bill Evans, are all awesome! For the Bill Evans’ fans, this is it! He is in the room as i like to say. Creating this illusion is my reason for having this hobby.


----------



## hontored (Jan 10, 2019)

Hello !
I am very interested in the U16.

I have a few questions :

Is it working with android ? I use my phone as a digital source. Do you need the 5v tension for the U16 to work ? I mean : do you need a powered usb connection to U16 for it to work as is the case with SU1.

Do you know what is the connection convention for denafrips products ? Do you have to reverse L/R on a denafrips DAC with standard firmware V1.4 on U16?

Thanks for any information.


----------



## rafabro

hontored said:


> Hello !
> I am very interested in the U16.
> 
> I have a few questions :
> ...


Phone as a source? 

U16 doesn't need USB power as stated few posts before.
I2S is fully configurable so no reversed LR channels. Also cleared before in thread.


----------



## hontored

rafabro said:


> Phone as a source?
> 
> U16 doesn't need USB power as stated few posts before.
> I2S is fully configurable so no reversed LR channels. Also cleared before in thread.



Yes phone as a source . If I understand well upsampling can be done by my dac and in this situation the source is not important once the reclocking has been done by U16.
Also a phone has an advantage on a computer : low voltage operation meaning less noise...

From what I understood in previous posts denafrips uses the same hdmi cabling as ps audio (not so sure) in this case v1.4 firmware means reversed L/R.
I don't intend to flash another firmware unless it corrects the reported problems in this topic. Firmware V1.4 seems to be the most stable.

So has someone tried to connect an android device to the U16 ?


----------



## PitBul34 (Jan 10, 2019)

hontored said:


> Is it working with android ? I use my phone as a digital source.


Works problemless in PCM & DSD Native modes with my Honor 10 (via Hiby Music player), but sound isn't so good as for Gustard ASIO driver for Windows, imo.


----------



## hontored

Great !

Thanks for testing.

I believe the sound quality should not be lesser in android if you send bitperfect signal to the U16 and let the dac do the oversampling.


----------



## motberg

rafabro said:


> I am still using 1.4 and have zero (0!) problems. Music flows, full nirvana with any type of file resolution...



+1 on the "full nirvana" 
after reading of these problems I specifically retried a few 176k and 88k PCM playlists (within the same album, no switching file types within the playlist). 
WIN Server 2012, JPlay with KS, i2s HDMI to NOS7
No problem using the original PS Audio configured firmware.
Display on the U16 corresponds to the file resolution.


----------



## motberg

FredA said:


> ........ I now hear distinctly details that were muffled before......



Yep... this is the exact way to describe what I am hearing.. 
I previously used; modded SU-1, Tanly, U12, Melodious , W4S, and 3 different Audio-GD model DDC's.
It is actually easy to compare - even from years back - because some of these low level musical elements layered in the soundfield (especially in the midrange) I am definitely hearing for the first time in songs I have listed to hundreds of times... prior they must have been mashed together in the mix and not noticed. 
And it is not like hitting a few DB EQ in the specific band, it is more like pulling apart the sound elements and isolating them within a front/back layer so that they can be understood within the relationship to the other stuff...


----------



## rafabro

hontored said:


> Great !
> 
> I believe the sound quality should not be lesser in android if you send bitperfect signal to the U16 and let the dac do the oversampling.


You wrong. The source matters for sound quality. It doesn't matter if it's digital. 
You may just accept, is what it is, and that's fine. But it wont be the hi-end sound.


----------



## hontored

rafabro said:


> You wrong. The source matters for sound quality. It doesn't matter if it's digital.
> You may just accept, is what it is, and that's fine. But it wont be the hi-end sound.



Bits are bits though I admit there may be high end ones 

For people wondering about hdmi cables quality :
http://archimago.blogspot.com/search?q=hdmi

But there may also be high end sounding ones...


----------



## motberg

allhifi said:


> Hi Motberg: I just asked/posted a reply/question about the U-16 regarding the very thing you speak-of (and that was of interest to me), namely, SQ:
> 
> "  I think U16's inner resolution and layering in the midrange bands is amazing, I have already had quite a few moments just shocked on the additional midrange information the U16 can pull out of the recording.
> 
> ...



From memory, In my system, I would say the U12, Melodious, and last version of Audio GD DDC's were approximately in the same level..
The Tanly/HE-350 was a clear jump up from these offering a less digital sound and more accurate detail (like on cymbals) and better sound stage.
When I first got the SU-1 (before mods), I noticed lots of extra detail, but after 3 days break-in I could not take the harshness anymore and went back to the Tanly. (My speakers have a couple peaks after 10K)
Then I had the SU-1 PS mod and used 2 separate sets "Uptone LPS-1's with iFi DC iPurifier"  (one set on SU-1 USB input side and one set on SU-1 output side) .. this removed the stock SU-1 harshness and then I could appreciate the extra detail of the SU-1 over the Tanly..
To me, the modded SU-1 sound was similar but superior to the stock U12.. a clear step up within the same sound environment...
To me, the U16 offers a different environment than any of the above (Tanly would be the closest), kind of like tubes vs SS, or analog vs. digital. 

For bass, I notice that the bass lines are now sometimes distinctly within their own envelope, easier to discern, and maybe more correctly balanced against the midrange. Also tone and attack seems slightly more accurate. 
I listen to mostly 70-80's rock and prog and worked in bands during that time so have a burned-in memory of standing aside various bass guitar cabinets and keyboard synths almost nightly over about 6 years.. the U16 ability to isolate and clarify the bass sounds from the rest of the mix helps bring the overall playback presentation closer to what I remember - but still within the limitations of my home stereo system.


----------



## rafabro

hontored said:


> Bits are bits though I admit there may be high end ones
> 
> For people wondering about hdmi cables quality :
> http://archimago.blogspot.com/search?q=hdmi
> ...


Is no such thing like bits in electricity. It's only IT term. Logical term, not physical.


----------



## DACLadder

I reverted back to 1.4 PSA firmware.  With 1.58 f/w anything above 44.1kHz sampling rate sounds hollow and sucked out.  CDs though sounded great with 1.58.  HDMI I2S output. 

And think I have better operational performance with 1.4 f/w so will stick with it until something else comes along.


----------



## FredA

hontored said:


> Bits are bits though I admit there may be high end ones
> 
> For people wondering about hdmi cables quality :
> http://archimago.blogspot.com/search?q=hdmi
> ...


A digital transmission does not imply error correction. Usb audio, i2s and spdif will all be affected by noise as it causes jitter. That is easily demonstated and was proven a long time ago.

The problem with people with subpar hearing is they have to rely on measurements to tell if a device is good. It defeats the purpose. Some things just can't be measured, or there exist no protocol to measure them. Yet.

Or else, something in the setup is subpar.


----------



## hontored

FredA said:


> A digital transmission does not imply error correction. Usb audio, i2s and spdif will all be affected by noise as it causes jitter. That is easily demonstated and was proven a long time ago.
> 
> The problem with people with subpar hearing is they have to rely on measurements to tell if a device is good. It defeats the purpose. Some things just can't be measured, or there exist no protocol to measure them. Yet.
> 
> Or else, something in the setup is subpar.


My point is from source to gustard u16 there can be errors in the form of jitter comming from the source and thats why the gustard u16 is useful with its high precision clock.

From u16 to dac through hdmi as you can see from the link I posted jitter is basically the same on all tested cables.

Consider my hearing subpar if you wish...


----------



## FredA

hontored said:


> My point is from source to gustard u16 there can be errors in the form of jitter comming from the source and thats why the gustard u16 is useful with its high precision clock.
> 
> From u16 to dac through hdmi as you can see from the link I posted jitter is basically the same on all tested cables.
> 
> Consider my hearing subpar if you wish...


I agree with that the diff. with hdmi cables, being especially made for digital transmission and studied in depth for that purpose, are rather minimal. Still, they don't sound exactly the same cause some are obviously faster and better shielded. I agree it's very subtle and i admit I most often could not pick a cable in a blind test. Did no mean to offfend you.


----------



## FredA

However, the website you linked from and its author seems to imply pretty much all high-end cables, including speaker cables, are snake oil. That is where i strongly disagree, even hookup wires sound different. Whether or not it can be measured is another story. Nobody seems to own the recipe for measuring good sounding gears and cables anyway.

 The s/n and noise measurements in general correlate to the actual listening experience. Most other measurement don’t most of the times and they are pretty much useless AFAIC. One has to study how humans perceived and interpret sound. So the listening test overrides any other sort of test in the mean time. The measurements are mostly snake oil, basically, and one who relies solely on them is being taken advantage of.


----------



## hontored

My point was only for digital over cable so hdmi or usb or something else. I believe the cable is not the greatest source of error. 

When the signal is analog, for instance speaker cable I think it is a whole different matter. I play guitar and I can actually hear a difference between some cables. Also I bought vovox shieldless cables to link my dac to my amp because of this.


----------



## FredA (Jan 11, 2019)

hontored said:


> My point was only for digital over cable so hdmi or usb or something else. I believe the cable is not the greatest source of error.
> 
> When the signal is analog, for instance speaker cable I think it is a whole different matter. I play guitar and I can actually hear a difference between some cables. Also I bought vovox shieldless cables to link my dac to my amp because of this.



Again, with usb, differences can be subtle, or not so subtle depending on the match and overall setup. If there is a limiting factor, meaning a component not fully transparent somewereh downstream to the cable you are evaluating, you won’t perceive much of a change. For instance, i can hear the difference between most power cables i tried on my r-7 dac. But everything downstream is perfectly transparent.

As for spdif cables used to hook up a dac, obvious differences can be observed between cables, especially with bass and how resolved it is. But to hear that, everything downstream has to be up to the task including yourself.


So when a guy like the one you put a link to makes the statements he makes, i just ask : who does he think he is? I will tell you: just a guy in his basement with an ordinary setup that sound pretty much ordinary who thinks he knows it all because he performs measurements with most likely ordinary equipement.  And with average hearing.

There is a major flaw in his reasoning: that we can measure everything that we hear and that we can hear everything that we measure.

I am surprised sometimes by what people refer to as sounding good, like my friend demonstrating the audio system in his new tesla model 3. To my ears, it was sounding very average, with very obvious flaws.

I will tell you some experience that does not lie: a delivery man coming to you home and wondering if there is a band in the basement.


----------



## rafabro (Jan 11, 2019)

hontored said:


> My point was only for digital over cable so hdmi or usb or something else. I believe the cable is not the greatest source of error.
> 
> When the signal is analog, for instance speaker cable I think it is a whole different matter. I play guitar and I can actually hear a difference between some cables. Also I bought vovox shieldless cables to link my dac to my amp because of this.


In all non optical cables signal is analog because electricity is analog. We call them "digital" cables but physically it's still same electricity.


----------



## hontored (Jan 11, 2019)

Sure there is no such thing as "real" bits. It is always something analog that is understood as bit by the system... So in that sense optical is also analog.

Nonetheless the way the analog signal is understood as bits makes the signal more robust to noise. It's easier to distinguish between ones and zeros than a continuum of values.

What I mean by differences with analog signal are things like impedance and capacity of cables which act as filters on the signal and directly affect it as it is reproduced by the audio device.

Ok maybe it's time to return on the subject : gustard U16. I feel that we are going circles...


----------



## wwmhf

FredA said:


> There is a major flaw in his reasoning: that we can measure everything that we hear and that we can hear everything that we measure.



We have to face the gap between what we can measure and what we can hear!


----------



## FredA

wwmhf said:


> We have to face the gap between what we can measure and what we can hear!


Yep.


----------



## FredA (Jan 11, 2019)

Tonight, what i hear with my usbridge -> intona -> u16 -> r-7 setup is sort of, just like, i hesitate to say it, don’t want to jinx it: mind-blowing.

The soundstage has expanded in all direction and the illusion of the band being here in my room has become even more convincing.

I am a little sad as the journey to where i got was as fun as being at what seems to be the final destination. I am afraid there is not much i could do to improve what i hear.

Maybe one of those crazy expansive tubulus usb cables? Audio Sensibility Testament? A used he-350? Not sure any of these would help. I think i am just gonna buy some new records....


----------



## FredA

I forgot: i ordered a couple of dc cables from Ghentaudio. Maybe another sound upgrade? Not that i need any but i will take it anyway if it’s the case.


----------



## darren700 (Jan 12, 2019)

FredA said:


> I forgot: i ordered a couple of dc cables from Ghentaudio. Maybe another sound upgrade? Not that i need any but i will take it anyway if it’s the case.


ive been really happy with the Ghent DC01 cables, i have one on each of my Uptone LPS-1 LPSU's, the Oyaide connector is really nice and the canare cable makes for awesome flexibility.
Based on this explanation from the designer of the Uptone ISORegen i don't think there would be much benefit from cables more exotic than the Ghent DC01 ones, and the ghent cables use the exact Canare cable he recommends.

is the DC01 the same ghent cable you purchased? or did you opt for one of the other Ghent cables? this one looks nice too: DC-7N16C Neotech UPOCC 7N Copper 16AWG DC(JSSG360) Cable but its double the price of the Canare cable.

 Audio Sensibility makes 2 DC cable options ($239 CDN Signature Silver DC Cable and $159 CDN OCC Statement SE DC Cable) but they seem to much money to invest in a simple DC cable and i am weary i would be able to tell the difference from the Ghent cables.


----------



## PitBul34

I do all cables myself and use pre-war vintage Western Electric single core wires. F.e., 2,5x5,5 Oyaide DC - to - GXx12x2 connector. 2 discrete shielded braided lines (6x WE D0,5mm single core copper wires total, 3x each line) :


----------



## FredA

darren700 said:


> ive been really happy with the Ghent DC01 cables, i have one on each of my Uptone LPS-1 LPSU's, the Oyaide connector is really nice and the canare cable makes for awesome flexibility.
> Based on this explanation from the designer of the Uptone ISORegen i don't think there would be much benefit from cables more exotic than the Ghent DC01 ones, and the ghent cables use the exact Canare cable he recommends.
> 
> is the DC01 the same ghent cable you purchased? or did you opt for one of the other Ghent cables? this one looks nice too: DC-7N16C Neotech UPOCC 7N Copper 16AWG DC(JSSG360) Cable but its double the price of the Canare cable.
> ...


Yes, i got the Canare. I don’t think i had a choice with the terminations i needed.


----------



## FredA

Very nice cable!


----------



## BernieB (Jan 12, 2019)

FredA said:


> Tonight, what i hear with my usbridge -> intona -> u16 -> r-7 setup is sort of, just like, i hesitate to say it, don’t want to jinx it: mind-blowing.
> 
> The soundstage has expanded in all direction and the illusion of the band being here in my room has become even more convincing.
> 
> ...



Wow Fred, i am glad you found fulfillment in your audio journey. I am sure it is not over yet  I am waiting for Gustard to be back in stock to order. I just took the plunge for the Audio Sensibility Testament usb cable. I'll be able to report back in a few weeks. I have their Impact SE Headphone Cable for my HE560 and have been quite impressed by the improvement over the stock cable. Are you still using that Ebay 2.1 Hdmi cable or stayed with the Black Mamba ?


----------



## FredA

A@


BernieB said:


> Wow Fred, i am glad you found fulfillment in your audio journey. I am sure it is not over yet  I am waiting for Gustard to be back in stock to order. I just took the plunge for the Audio Sensibility Testament usb cable. I'll be able to report back in a few weeks. I have their Impact SE Headphone Cable for my HE560 and have been quite impressed by the improvement over the stock cable. Are you still using that Ebay 2.1 Hdmi cable or stayed with the Black Mamba ?


Hi Bernie.

I guess you mean the Statement usb cable? That’s what i meant anyway, cause they don´t seem to do a Testament usb cable. The top of the line is the Signature.

Yes. I still use the 2.1 cable. Haven’t done a/b with the Black Mamba. Not sure which one is best. They are excellent.

As for usb cable, i have an ms-audio/valab silver usb between the usbridge and intona, very fast cable, and an ab-system mkii (cable with two separate trunks but just one head) between the usbridge and the u16. The latter is my best usb cable.


----------



## batfier

New Firmware:

GSD U16_V1.61

https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GSD U16 V1.4 0dB/


----------



## Thenewguy007

Hope it doesn't mess with the sound.
Seems firmware changes sometimes do more than just fix bugs when dealing with audio.


----------



## FredA

Thenewguy007 said:


> Hope it doesn't mess with the sound.
> Seems firmware changes sometimes do more than just fix bugs when dealing with audio.


No bug fix as far as i am concerned: same exact issues with and 176k and 192k. Think i will flash back 1.4psa.


----------



## wwmhf

Thanks for 


batfier said:


> New Firmware:
> 
> GSD U16_V1.61
> 
> https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GSD U16 V1.4 0dB/



Thanks for letting us know this update. 

I understand that, as usual, when a software/firmware is updated, the company will tell us as less as possible. But Gustard tells nothing in this 1.61 fw update, impossible to beat that.

However, I am sure that Gustard must have done something in this 1.61 fw. To confirm my conjecture, I found that "push and hold the left button" will change the upper right display to

GSD->PSA->LKS->HOLO->LRCK->GSD->......

LRCK is not available in 1.59 fw

What is LRCK for?


----------



## batfier

FredA said:


> No bug fix as far as i am concerned: same exact issues with and 176k and 192k. Think i will flash back 1.4psa.


 
same here


----------



## soumya.banerjee

Thankfully for Holo I2S configuration, ver 1.58/1.61 work fine, so no qualms there.

After marathon tussle with Jplay Trial activation, I finally see the light. This is unbelievable - how a software can unlock so much potential from same hardware.
Using Jplay with KS at 5Hz link is pure bliss even on my modified Topping D50 (with OPA 2209) and just K712 Pro.
I am yet to check it with Spring and my better headphones.
I am definitely getting a license for JPlay!


----------



## jimmychan

With R7, ver 1.58/1.61 problem still exist. 176.4/192/352.8/384KHz does not work properly.

Has to fall back to V1.4


----------



## PitBul34

wwmhf said:


> What is LRCK for?


 Flip left & right channels.


----------



## FredA (Jan 13, 2019)

i did a quick comparison this morning between the black mamba and the 2.1 chinese hdmi cables.

Both cables were burned for at least a week. I used Waltz For Debby from Bill Evans to pick the differences. It is a recording that is rich in spatial and ambiant cues.

To sum it up: the 2.1 brings more life to the party. The sense of depth, and micro-details are quite obviously better with it. It is smoother and more transparent. Bass is similar.

When i got it last week, the 2.1 did not sound so good and things were slightly in favor of the black mamba, as it had been burned for at least a week.

But now it is a different story. The 2.1 is clearly above. It needed around 100 hours to fully develop. This makes me wonder about high-end offering like the Tubulus. But this chinese cable is an excellent performer.


----------



## BernieB (Jan 13, 2019)

Thanks Fred for the update on those cables.  I'll probably order the 2.1 too. Can't wait for the gustard to be back in stock. Orders are not possible on shenzhen, aliexpress and amazon.


----------



## FredA

BernieB said:


> Thanks Fred for the update on those cables.  I'll probably order the 2.1 too. Can't wait for the gustard to be back in stock. Orders are not possible on shenzhen, aliexpress and amazon.


Pm me if you need an ebay seller recommendation.


----------



## darren700

BernieB said:


> Thanks Fred for the update on those cables.  I'll probably order the 2.1 too. Can't wait for the gustard to be back in stock. Orders are not possible on shenzhen, aliexpress and amazon.



hmm I wonder if that is why I am having issues with my second order from Shenzhen. I placed an order for my Second U16 on Jan 6. Their website says that it was shipped via DHL Express on Jan 9, however the tracking number still does not work 4 days later. usually it only takes a day or two to show up in the system. 
I have a ticket in with Shenzhen that i submitted today but no answer yet. 
I am starting to get frustrated. the first order went perfectly smooth, no duty or import fees either. Im really hoping they just messed up the tracking number input..... hope im not out $400 cdn... that would suck!


----------



## darren700

Just got an answer from Shenzhen, see below, hopefully they hold up to their word.

"Dear Darren, Thanks for your message. The tracking information may be delayed. We will track the status with courier company when we go back work tomorrow. Please don't worry about it. If it still has no any updated information within one week,we will resend a new one to you. Thanks for your understanding. Best regards!"


----------



## wwmhf

PitBul34 said:


> Flip left & right channels.



Really?! But it seems to be a reasonable option to implement. I will try it out. Thanks


----------



## MarkR7

Same issue here with waiting for my new U16 that I ordered about 2-3 weeks ago... I got the DHL tracking number, but no shipping updates as of yet, and it’s been over a week or so since I got the tracking info.


----------



## peteg

I got a good deal on mine on ebay but will pay the price with shipping (speedPak). I ordered on 12/21/18 and I'm guessing I have two more weeks to go, lucky it's in the states now.


----------



## PitBul34

Seems they ship faster, than produce


----------



## darren700

MarkR7 said:


> Same issue here with waiting for my new U16 that I ordered about 2-3 weeks ago... I got the DHL tracking number, but no shipping updates as of yet, and it’s been over a week or so since I got the tracking info.



Thanks, reassuring to know that I am not the only one with this issue.


----------



## Thenewguy007

darren700 said:


> hmm I wonder if that is why I am having issues with my second order from Shenzhen. I placed an order for my Second U16 on Jan 6. Their website says that it was shipped via DHL Express on Jan 9, however the tracking number still does not work 4 days later. usually it only takes a day or two to show up in the system.
> I have a ticket in with Shenzhen that i submitted today but no answer yet.
> I am starting to get frustrated. the first order went perfectly smooth, no duty or import fees either. Im really hoping they just messed up the tracking number input..... hope im not out $400 cdn... that would suck!



What I ordered in late December & it still shows processing & not shipped from Shenzhen. Why did you get yours shipped before mine.


----------



## darren700

Thenewguy007 said:


> What I ordered in late December & it still shows processing & not shipped from Shenzhen. Why did you get yours shipped before mine.



well it doesn't seem like mine is actually shipped yet anyways. maybe try opening a ticket and see what they say? the other option would be to cancel the order and order one through ebay.


----------



## Ludique

Me too, marked shipped by Shenzhen Audio but DHL hasn't received anything. Ordered 1/1.


----------



## rafabro

It looks like Gustard can't fully satisfy market demand  Well, with this SQ and price is just the best device on the market..


----------



## soumya.banerjee

soumya.banerjee said:


> Thankfully for Holo I2S configuration, ver 1.58/1.61 work fine, so no qualms there.
> 
> After marathon tussle with Jplay Trial activation, I finally see the light. This is unbelievable - how a software can unlock so much potential from same hardware.
> Using Jplay with KS at 5Hz link is pure bliss even on my modified Topping D50 (with OPA 2209) and just K712 Pro.
> ...



So now I am having second thoughts about Jplay.
Currently on linux kernel-lowlatency v 4.18 with ALSA direct access at 192 ~ 256 samples from DeadBeef. Definitely sounds better than Jplay. No need to compare with crappy Thesycon USB drivers.
Next steps will be to compile pre-emptive aka Realtime kernel, install mpd. That should settle down in to a high performance audio server for my U-16.

Funny thing is with low latency kernel + ALSA direct, even direct USB connection to DACs sound so much better!


----------



## bruiselee

Does this work with Audio GD Master 7??

I have not used such an DDC before. what should i be aware of before making the purchase?
Can i just use a regular HDMI cable to connect my dac to this U16?


----------



## rafabro

bruiselee said:


> Does this work with Audio GD Master 7??
> 
> I have not used such an DDC before. what should i be aware of before making the purchase?
> Can i just use a regular HDMI cable to connect my dac to this U16?


Ya, the cables are the regular HDMI cables. Difference is in devices.


----------



## MarkR7

darren700 said:


> Thanks, reassuring to know that I am not the only one with this issue.



Well, it appears that they are still waiting for the U16s to arrive from Gustard. They told me another 3 days or more before they start to ship out (even though some of us already have DHL tracking numbers). Oh well, the wait continues...


----------



## DACLadder (Jan 15, 2019)

bruiselee said:


> Does this work with Audio GD Master 7??



It works fine if you have the HDMI I2S adapter board in the Master 7.  Most M7s shipped with the RJ45 I2S input.

Best advice on HDMI cables and the AGD DACs is to use the shortest HDMI cable for your need.  These DACs like low jitter sources   And at 0.5m lengths and below it is hard to distinguish between cheaper and expensive cables.  But it is fun to compare cables and find what you like best.  I have 1.4, 2.0, and 2.1 HDMI cables and they all work and sound good (short lengths).


----------



## bruiselee

i bought my AGD M7 second hand, the previous owner was using it with a Singxer su-1 and recommended me to get one DDC as well.

So i reckon if it worked with the Singxer su-1, it should work with this u16 too?


----------



## DACLadder

I second @FredA 's enthusiasm for the Allo Usbridge driving the USB input on the U16 (w/ 1.4 psa f/w).  Sounds exceptionally well using the AGD R7 DAC and its 'V3A' f/w (HDMI I2S input).

But I think I may have a defective U16.  Always and never any exception after a power-on start I get static noise on the first playback.  To correct I attempt play at a few different sampling rates and then suddenly all is OK.  This happens connected to Windows or the Usbridge USB.  I tried both 1.4 and 1.58 f/w on the U16.  It's like the U16 has to warm up for a few minutes before it functions properly.


----------



## rafabro

Did you try to play from PC to see is it same effect?


----------



## DACLadder (Jan 15, 2019)

rafabro said:


> Did you try to play from PC to see is it same effect?



The U16 functions the same way whether connected to Windows or the Usbridge.  I've had the U16 since late Nov. 2018 and use it every day.  Same static noise on first play attempts.

But I tolerate the initial noise and flaky 176/192khz play because my system never sounded better!   I wish the U16 operated like the Singxers in my system.  They never give me one bit of issue.


----------



## FredA (Jan 15, 2019)

DACLadder said:


> I second @FredA 's enthusiasm for the Allo Usbridge driving the USB input on the U16 (w/ 1.4 psa f/w).  Sounds exceptionally well using the AGD R7 DAC and its 'V3A' f/w (HDMI I2S input).
> 
> But I think I may have a defective U16.  Always and never any exception after a power-on start I get static noise on the first playback.  To correct I attempt play at a few different sampling rates and then suddenly all is OK.  This happens connected to Windows or the Usbridge USB.  I tried both 1.4 and 1.58 f/w on the U16.  It's like the U16 has to warm up for a few minutes before it functions properly.


The depth is excellent with this setup and the hdmi cable you use will make a difference.

Anyone has any thoughts about the pi audio group UberBuss power conditioner? Still experiencing some annoying sound quality fluctuations.


----------



## motberg

bruiselee said:


> i bought my AGD M7 second hand, the previous owner was using it with a Singxer su-1 and recommended me to get one DDC as well.
> 
> So i reckon if it worked with the Singxer su-1, it should work with this u16 too?



As mentioned above, best to double check that your Master 7 has the HDMI style i2s connection in the rear panel... 
(It is doubtful, but if the prior owner was using some SU-1 SPDIF connection then you may have other DDC options to consider...)


----------



## motberg

Just a comment I bought this; http://www.hdtracks.com/arnesen-magnificat at 352kHz/24bit WAV and did a quick test.
Plays fine; U16->NOS7, (WIN2012 server, AO, JPlay Mini, Hibernate, dedicated fanless i5 PC with ATX LPS, PPA stuff, etc...)

I ordered another U16 for my R1...


----------



## batfier

motberg said:


> Just a comment I bought this; http://www.hdtracks.com/arnesen-magnificat at 352kHz/24bit WAV and did a quick test.
> Plays fine; U16->NOS7, (WIN2012 server, AO, JPlay Mini, Hibernate, dedicated fanless i5 PC with ATX LPS, PPA stuff, etc...)
> 
> I ordered another U16 for my R1...



what fw do you use?

how long was the test?
for some seconds it seems to work fine for me,  with sample rates of 176/192 and higher, but than suddenly to sound starts to disturb heavily.
and even during the seconds it seems to work, the data transfer through the u16 is not bit perfect, according to the RME ADI-2 Pro. for sample rates up to 96khz it is.


----------



## motberg

batfier said:


> what fw do you use?
> 
> how long was the test?
> for some seconds it seems to work fine for me,  with sample rates of 176/192 and higher, but than suddenly to sound starts to disturb heavily.
> and even during the seconds it seems to work, the data transfer through the u16 is not bit perfect, according to the RME ADI-2 Pro. for sample rates up to 96khz it is.


Hi,
I am using the PSAudio 1.4 firmware.
I only played about half the Magnificat album, maybe 4 tracks total ...
But I have played a few full albums at 176 and 192 PCM... no problem, files work as expected without stuttering, hiss, etc..


----------



## FredA (Jan 16, 2019)

With  Volumio and 1.4, 176 and 192 seem to work when maxing the output buffer to 12Mb.

I listened to a 96k album earlier. Best rendition ever of this album (Stanley Turrentine Sugar).

However, the transition from 176 to. 192 is problematic. When doing so, the 192 track is full of artefacts.


----------



## jimmychan

V 1.61 is available now.
Has anybody tried yet?


----------



## wwmhf

Several people here have tried it, including myself. But I went back to 1.4 because 1.61 has similar issues I had with 1.58.


----------



## wwmhf (Jan 18, 2019)

FredA said:


> With  Volumio and 1.4, 176 and 192 seem to work when maxing the output buffer to 12Mb.



Your experience of increasing the buffer corroborates my opinion that U16 or its driver software has a shortcoming in utilizing/controlling the buffer for it to work better in demanding situations. SU-1 can control its buffer in a wide range via its driver software.


----------



## zeid2

My new U16 produces audible distortion even from 16/44 files. I feed it music data either from Fidata NAS or SOtM SMS-200 neo and the sound is distorted both from its I2S and AES/EBU outputs (never used simultaneously). I would appreciate any idea of what might be wrong. Firmware issue? My Singxer SU-1 as well the USB input of my Auralic Vega behave exemplary in the same conditions.


----------



## zeid2

Further to my previous remarks. I installed the new 1.61 firmware (the original was 1.4). Distortion in low res recordings disappeared but high res (176 and 192) recordings through HDMI output are heavily distorted (I tried all output settings to no avail) and through AES/EBU the sound goes for 20 to 40 seconds and then mutes. I have never experienced problems like this with any other similar product. U16 has a good potential with unbeatable price/performance ratio but it is an unfinished product which has been launched prematurely. I only hope that the next firmware update will correctly address all remaining weak points.


----------



## FredA

zeid2 said:


> My new U16 produces audible distortion even from 16/44 files. I feed it music data either from Fidata NAS or SOtM SMS-200 neo and the sound is distorted both from its I2S and AES/EBU outputs (never used simultaneously). I would appreciate any idea of what might be wrong. Firmware issue? My Singxer SU-1 as well the USB input of my Auralic Vega behave exemplary in the same conditions.


The u16 will reveal any recording distorsion. Any recording defect becomes obvious with it. Like with old jaz records, Does it do it with all recordings?


----------



## zeid2

No, it definitely was not in recordings. It was, I'd say, analog character of the distortion and I heard it best on audiophile recordings on voices (Jacintha, Norah Jones), it was rather prominent. I checked it on two totally independent rigs. When Gustard was removed from either chain and replaced by Singxer or by USB convertors in-built in my DACs, the distortion was not there.


----------



## FredA

zeid2 said:


> No, it definitely was not in recordings. It was, I'd say, analog character of the distortion and I heard it best on audiophile recordings on voices (Jacintha, Norah Jones), it was rather prominent. I checked it on two totally independent rigs. When Gustard was removed from either chain and replaced by Singxer or by USB convertors in-built in my DACs, the distortion was not there.


It seems like the u16 is fussy with computers. It has some timing related issues which will manifest more with higher rates.


----------



## zeid2

I use no computers in either of my two chains. USB convertor is fed either directly from Fidata NAS USB output or from SOtM SMS-200 neo USB output which is preceded by Synology 216 NAS. No comps, only for control through Linn Kazoo or Kinsky.


----------



## zeid2

After several hours of careful listening I must admit that, with 1.61 firmware and from I2S output, the U16 mops the floor with anything I could put against it. Both on PCM and DSD. The sound is now crystal clear, detailed, dynamic, expansive, colourful, with "see through" quality. Just hope the 176/24 and 192/24 issue will be solved soon.


----------



## wwmhf

FredA said:


> It seems like the u16 is fussy with computers. It has some timing related issues which will manifest more with higher rates.





zeid2 said:


> I use no computers in either of my two chains. USB convertor is fed either directly from Fidata NAS USB output or from SOtM SMS-200 neo USB output which is preceded by Synology 216 NAS. No comps, only for control through Linn Kazoo or Kinsky.



I think Fred's "computer" is in generic sense, "computer" can any device that reads/receives/processes data files of music. Or we can consider a "computer" just as a digital course.


----------



## motberg

I am using Windows and no problem (so far) at any PCM sample rates.
Could this distortion be Linux and macOS related? (I am pretty sure SOtM SMS-200 is Linux based..)


----------



## PitBul34

motberg said:


> I am using Windows and no problem (so far) at any PCM sample rates.


Me too. No problem at any sample rates.


----------



## rafabro

Same here, Win10, no problems


----------



## batfier

@motberg, PitBul34, rafabro

what fw you are using?

thx


----------



## Ludique

Let's hope these Linux/osx problems are not the reason ESS is so silent about the chip.


----------



## rafabro

batfier said:


> @motberg, PitBul34, rafabro
> 
> what fw you are using?
> 
> thx


1.4


----------



## motberg

batfier said:


> @motberg, PitBul34, rafabro
> 
> what fw you are using?
> 
> thx


1.4 PS Audio


----------



## PitBul34

batfier said:


> what fw you are using?


Any 1.2 1.4 1.5 1.6


----------



## PitBul34 (Jan 18, 2019)

Ludique said:


> Let's hope these Linux/osx problems are not the reason ESS is so silent about the chip


_My friend Magelan wrote them an e-mail and got following reply_:

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your mail. We are aware that a particular customer in China is using the ES8620 in a new DAC.
This device was originally designed for Soundbar applications and has been non-preferred for new designs for several years.
We do not recommend this device for new designs and we are not supporting it here in Europe.
Sincerely,

David B***** "
---
They don't recommend this device, but it sounds awesome


----------



## rafabro

PitBul34 said:


> but it sounds awesome



And that's what is important here


----------



## zeid2

motberg said:


> I am using Windows and no problem (so far) at any PCM sample rates.
> Could this distortion be Linux and macOS related? (I am pretty sure SOtM SMS-200 is Linux based..)


SOtM SMS-200 is Linux based, the other source I use is Fidata NAS (Japanese IO Data's high-end brand) - I have no idea about its software, it might also be Linux based. The problems could be caused by some incompatibility with Linux.


----------



## batfier (Jan 20, 2019)

zeid2 said:


> The problems could be caused by some incompatibility with Linux.



Looks like U16 currently has a problem with sample rates higher 176 and linux, this includes embedded linux devices like e.g. sotm, aries, etc.

Gustard is working on it.

Did some more testing. until new fw arrives AudioGD users can also try fw v1.4 for Holo:
- HDMI/IIS works with correct L/R, 176/192 sometimes causing problems sometimes not, like v1.4 psa as well. 352khz works so far.
- all other outputs working fine for PCM, up to 352khz for coax into Hugo2, but DSD is not working.

so v1.4 Holo seems to combine more or less working hdmi from v1.4 psa fw with working other output from plain v1.4 fw.

According to singxer Su-1 documentation the HDMI pin layout from Holo and AudioGD is the same.


----------



## FredA (Jan 21, 2019)

batfier said:


> Looks like U16 currently has a problem with sample rates higher 176 and linux, this includes embedded linux devices like e.g. sotm, aries, etc.
> 
> Gustard is working on it.
> 
> ...



As a matter of fact, i have the 176/192 problem with volumio, which is based on Raspbian linux. Great news! In the mean time, all other formats sound awesomely.


----------



## Asimov-kln

Just placed order in Amazon.
Could anybody please tell me how long it takes to reach at USA from Shenzen Audio?


----------



## FredA

Asimov-kln said:


> Just placed order in Amazon.
> Could anybody please tell me how long it takes to reach at USA from Shenzen Audio?


Shenzen audio had it back ordered not so long ago. So, it could take a while. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## MarkR7

I ordered U16 on Jan 2nd (via EBay), and it finally shipped out yesterday via DHL. We’ll see how long it takes to get here...!


----------



## BernieB

MarkR7 said:


> I ordered U16 on Jan 2nd (via EBay), and it finally shipped out yesterday via DHL. We’ll see how long it takes to get here...!



Similar to me. I ordered on Ebay last week and got notified 3 days ago that DHL shipping info has been received. Item has not shipped yet though.


----------



## rocky500 (Jan 24, 2019)

This is total conjecture on my part.
Could they be working on revised circuit board for the U16 that could be causing the delays?
I have noticed other products sneak in revised boards (don't mention it), even the SU-1 has different ones as it is printed on the circuit board. I think Schiit mentioned they do it too, as revise there boards and don't mention it at the time.
So maybe these delays on shipping could be a good thing for you guys.


----------



## rafabro

rocky500 said:


> This is total conjecture on my part.
> Could they be working on revised circuit board for the U16 that could be causing the delays?
> I have noticed other products sneak in revised boards (don't mention it), even the SU-1 has different ones as it is printed on the circuit board. I think Schiit mentioned they do it too, as revise there boards and don't mention it at the time.
> So maybe these delays on shipping could be a good thing for you guys.


Every manufacturer of every product on whole planet do revision changes time to time. Cars, blenders, TV's...everything


----------



## batfier

rafabro said:


> Every manufacturer of every product on whole planet do revision changes time to time. Cars, blenders, TV's...everything


as long, as the product completely fulfills its specification, optimizations in the production process are ok. 

but it would be a different story, 
if the product need modifications to be able to fulfill the specification it was sold with.


----------



## MarkR7

BernieB said:


> Similar to me. I ordered on Ebay last week and got notified 3 days ago that DHL shipping info has been received. Item has not shipped yet though.



Well, I just received my new U16 yesterday via DLH.  Ordered on 1/2, got the DHL tracking no. on 1/7, DHL picked it up on 1/21, and they delivered it to me yesterday, 1/23.

I am pleased to say that cold, out of the box, it sounds better than my X-SPDIF2 / LPS1.2 combination, which I thought to be a really excellent combination. I now get a more holographic soundstage with better instrument / voice separation in the mix, and overall, the sound is just a bit smoother too, but I do notice a little more sibilance now, but hey, the U16 is brand new, and it needs some hours on it.  I did play some 24/192 files from my MacBook Pro (2012, running Mojave) thru Roon to my Metrum Onyx DAC via AES/EBU, and I had no issues whatsoever. This U16 is definately worth it I think!


----------



## Chopin75

So AES can do 24/192. Is the issue with Hi-Res/DSD mainly with I2S? Has anyone sucessfully played DSD256 via I2S?


----------



## wwmhf

PitBul34 said:


> _My friend Magelan wrote them an e-mail and got following reply_:
> 
> Dear Sir,
> Thank you for your mail. We are aware that a particular customer in China is using the ES8620 in a new DAC.
> ...



A few days ago, after reading PitBul34's post above, I had conjecture about the shortage of U16 in the market: The chip maker did not want/encourage Gustard to make U16, so ....

My conjecture was not optimistic so I did post it. Now, I think that "the Gustard is revising U16" is a better guess.


----------



## rafabro

Chopin75 said:


> So AES can do 24/192. Is the issue with Hi-Res/DSD mainly with I2S? Has anyone sucessfully played DSD256 via I2S?


Ya,it plays everything for me. I use I2S only


----------



## wwmhf

Chopin75 said:


> So AES can do 24/192. Is the issue with Hi-Res/DSD mainly with I2S? Has anyone sucessfully played DSD256 via I2S?



I tried to upsample CD wave files to DSD256 by foobar2000 + U16 connected to a DAC via I2S cable. 
The results were good but this configuration had some glitches, the DAC unlocked once in while and generated light crack/noise. I felt that firmware 1.4 worked better than 1.58 and 1.61

In last few days, I have been upsampling CD wave files to DSD128 by foobar2000 + U16 connected to a DAC, and I have no complains so far.


----------



## Ludique (Jan 24, 2019)

I received mine yesterday as well, on the third day after shipment to the Nordics.

It certainly sounds wonderful already but does not play 192 from Auralic Aries and spdif. Actually... it does, but for 15 seconds at a time. As reported by many.


----------



## batfier

Chopin75 said:


> So AES can do 24/192. Is the issue with Hi-Res/DSD mainly with I2S? Has anyone sucessfully played DSD256 via I2S?



did some testing with Aries -> U16 (different FW versions) -> AudioGD R7 (IIS input):


----------



## batfier (Jan 24, 2019)

batfier said:


> did some testing with Aries -> U16 (different FW versions) -> AudioGD R7 (IIS input):



Same testing with Aries -> U16 (different FW versions) (BNC out)-> Hugo 2 (coax in)


----------



## Whitigir

Oh goodness, someone should pay you for that .  I appreciate it a lot !


----------



## batfier

batfier said:


> Same testing with Aries -> U16 (different FW versions) (BNC out)-> Hugo 2 (coax in)



Same testing with Aries -> U16 (different FW versions) (XLR/coax/toslink output)-> RME ADI-2 pro (XLR/coax/toslink input)

XLR/coax/toslink results are the same:


----------



## batfier

Whitigir said:


> Oh goodness, someone should pay you for that .  I appreciate it a lot !



Some days ago, Gustard support had ask, if I could try another FW version.

so, trying to help and did it on the weekend and sent the xls back to support. no feedback yet.

FYI, testing was done only with Aries as a source (based on Linux). So test results for Win PC would probably be different.


----------



## DACLadder

batfier said:


> Some days ago, Gustard support had ask, if I could try another FW version.
> 
> so, trying to help and did it on the weekend and sent the xls back to support. no feedback yet.
> 
> FYI, testing was done only with Aries as a source (based on Linux). So test results for Win PC would probably be different.



Thanks for sending the data to Gustard support...  

Hopefully the playback issues are not with the ESS USB chip.  Obsolete chips usually have no support on field problems.  The big question is can this be fixed via a future firmware upgrade?.


----------



## wwmhf

batfier said:


> Some days ago, Gustard support had ask, if I could try another FW version.
> 
> so, trying to help and did it on the weekend and sent the xls back to support. no feedback yet.
> 
> FYI, testing was done only with Aries as a source (based on Linux). So test results for Win PC would probably be different.



Thank you very much!!! 

Your data indicate that the configuration "U16 (different FW versions) -> AudioGD R7 (IIS input)" has more OKs sans "Ch swapped"


----------



## batfier (Jan 24, 2019)

wwmhf said:


> Thank you very much!!!
> 
> Your data indicate that the configuration "U16 (different FW versions) -> AudioGD R7 (IIS input)" has more OKs sans "Ch swapped"



I repeating testing using same playlist with test files.

Please keep in mind that IIS can support all bit rates, but other interfaces AES/SPDIF (XLR/coax/toslink/bnc) are limited. This is *not *an issue of the U16, rather a "limitation/standard" on Dac input side.

Typically AES/SPDIF (XLR/coax/toslink/bnc) are limited to 192khz/DSD64. In case above the limit of the DAC, I put "not playing (OK)".

However Hugo2 even supports PCM 352khz and DSD128, but only on coax input.

One more thing, testing was done only 1 or 2 times per test. Unfortunally some samplerates seems to produce unreliable results, e.g. 176khz, meaning sometime it plays fine, sometimes not....


----------



## Whitigir

I wonder if ES8620 is capable of dsd1024


----------



## batfier

FYI, with all U16 fw versions file with 192khz seems not be <BitPerfect> transfered, at least on XLR/coax/toslink/bnc.

When Aries is connect directly to the RME (without U16 in between) all bit test are working!

Here some background for the RME results for TestType = BitTest, from the handbook:

https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2profs_e.pdf
"34.21 Bit Test

A bit test is used to check the playback path for unwanted changes in the playback data. Playback software can cut bits, add dither, or change the level - without these changes becoming noticed easily. A poorly programmed driver can manipulate bits, and a playback hardware could be both badly designed and defective (hanging bits, swapped bits). Even such features as proper channel assignment, left/right synchronicity and polarity can be tested by a well-made bit test. With a bit test, such errors can be detected and - more importantly - excluded.

How does it work?

Most bit tests take some time and are loud and unpleasant when playing through headphones or speakers. RME uses a unique bit pattern, with defined levels and pauses. This consists of only 400 samples (<10 ms), and sounds like a dull, medium-loud click - harmless for ears and equipment. The short, but efficient test sequence allows to check for the following changes and errors: Level changes, equalization, dynamic processing, polarity, channel swapping, sample offset, hanging or twisted bits, dither, bit reduction. The signal reaches the ADI-2 Pro via USB, AES or SPDIF/ADAT. The unit has three continuously running check circuits. If the test signal is detected correctly, the device's display shows a message: Bit Test 16 bits, 24 bits or 32 bits passed, depending on the detected signal. If the transmission path is not bit-transparent or bit-accurate, the signal only minimally changed, the message is not shown, the bit test failed. There is no error notice.

RME provides several audio files as free download: 44.1, 96 and 192 kHz in 16 bit, 24 bit and 32 bit. These files in WAV format can be played easily on Windows, Mac OS X and Linux. For ease of use (looping, players with fade in/out), the files contain the bit pattern several times. Runtime is about 4 seconds."


----------



## JaMo

So, 
I got the G U16 delivered yesterday eve. Powered it up and after some minutes got it sounding through HDMI. .. Out of the box it sounded more than ok. I will investigate further around Your findings regarding firmwares and format issues.. Well, so far thing are fine. Solid box. Good feeling about it.
/Jan


----------



## zeid2

New U16 firmware appeared on the Gustard web site. No version number indicated, only 'U16 firmware upgrade'. Has anybody tried?


----------



## rafabro

What www adres?


----------



## zeid2

https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GUSTARD U16 USB Driver/

Sorry, a false alarm, there is no new rom file. However, when I tried to install the new firmware and was looking for a new rom, I noticed that the current firmware in my U16 was clearly indicated as 1.61 *96k*, dated 3 Jan 2019. Hence probably the problems experienced with 192/24 files. I decided then to try to revert to firmware 1.4, this time with PSA I2S rom (I have a Denafrips Terminator R2R DAC fed through I2S input). Lo and behold, everything seems to be working as it should now - DSD 2,82 MHz, PCM 192/24 (I have no higher resolution files). The sound is clean, beyond any reproach. I decided not to touch the U16 anymore, now it works as I hoped for. I am sorry for my previous confused reporting.


----------



## rafabro

Oh, so shenzenaudio. Not the Gustard web side. I thought they finally made one


----------



## peteg

zeid2 said:


> https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GUSTARD U16 USB Driver/
> 
> Sorry, a false alarm, there is no new rom file. However, when I tried to install the new firmware and was looking for a new rom, I noticed that the current firmware in my U16 was clearly indicated as 1.61 *96k*, dated 3 Jan 2019. Hence probably the problems experienced with 192/24 files. I decided then to try to revert to firmware 1.4, this time with PSA I2S rom (I have a Denafrips Terminator R2R DAC fed through I2S input). Lo and behold, everything seems to be working as it should now - DSD 2,82 MHz, PCM 192/24 (I have no higher resolution files). The sound is clean, beyond any reproach. I decided not to touch the U16 anymore, now it works as I hoped for. I am sorry for my previous confused reporting.


Good to know about the Terminator, on the U16 did you try the I2s default setting (gustard) going into the Terminator.


----------



## Ludique (Jan 25, 2019)

Did you notice this:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gustard-x26-dual-es9038pro-dac-with-ess-usb-chip.898368/

A logical step to implement it in a dac, but if they want to sell plenty of those, they really need to fix the usb fw.


----------



## Thenewguy007

zeid2 said:


> https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GUSTARD U16 USB Driver/
> 
> Sorry, a false alarm, there is no new rom file. However, when I tried to install the new firmware and was looking for a new rom, I noticed that the current firmware in my U16 was clearly indicated as 1.61 *96k*, dated 3 Jan 2019. Hence probably the problems experienced with 192/24 files. I decided then to try to revert to firmware 1.4, this time with PSA I2S rom (I have a Denafrips Terminator R2R DAC fed through I2S input). Lo and behold, everything seems to be working as it should now - DSD 2,82 MHz, PCM 192/24 (I have no higher resolution files). The sound is clean, beyond any reproach. I decided not to touch the U16 anymore, now it works as I hoped for. I am sorry for my previous confused reporting.



So 1.4 is the firmware to get?
Anyone have a download link to it with instructions to install it?


----------



## zeid2

https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GSD U16 V1.4 0dB/


----------



## zeid2

peteg said:


> Good to know about the Terminator, on the U16 did you try the I2s default setting (gustard) going into the Terminator.


I finally reverted to 
GSD U16V1.4_0db.rom 
everything seems to be working correctly incl. hi-res files 192/24 and DSD 2,84 with the Termnator (through I2S). I do not have any 176/24 or higher DSD files.


----------



## BernieB (Jan 26, 2019)

Just got my Gustard  Sound quality so far is incredible, a real step up from amanero usb with isolators on my Audio-Gd R2R-2 dac.

My main issues so far ( tested with all firmwares ):

For S/PDIF output, using HQPlayer with Roon is not pratical because switching tracks in Roon makes loud glitches and noise distortion, even if every tracks coming from HQPlayer are upsampled to PCM 192KHz. Upsampling in Roon at the same rate, leaving HQplayer out of the loop, works perfectly. I wish i could still use HQPlayer, i find its upsampling algorithms much superior to Roon's.

With I2S output, i get a layer of loud distortion on top of the music played, no matter the PCM sample rate. When Gustard is feeded with DSD files from my PC windows 10, music is coming though fine to my dac (except with small pop / noises / glitches in quiet passages, but that is Audio Gd R2R dacs having issues with DSD). Tried with 2 different normal hdmi cables (will receive a new 2.1 soon).

My question : Is Gustard supposed to convert any feeded PCM sample rate to I2S / HDMI output ? I get the distortion only when feeded with PCM.
Thx


----------



## DACLadder

@BernieB   My understanding HDMI I2S output supports everything.  What version firmware are you using and do you have the U16 set for "PSA"?  I have better luck on HDMI I2S with "1.4 PSA".  But S/PDIF does not work with "1.4 PSA".  And I did experience very inconsistent audio using 1.58 f/w with sampling rates above 96kHz.   44.1kHz CD rate always sounded great though.  So went back to "1.4 PSA".

With 1.4 PSA my experience with U16 issues has dropped considerably.  Rarely do I get distorted audio but generally listen to 44.1kHz CDs to 96Khz PCM.


----------



## BernieB

DACLadder said:


> @BernieB   My understanding HDMI I2S output supports everything.  What version firmware are you using and do you have the U16 set for "PSA"?  I have better luck on HDMI I2S with "1.4 PSA".  But S/PDIF does not work with "1.4 PSA".  And I did experience very inconsistent audio using 1.58 f/w with sampling rates above 96kHz.   44.1kHz CD rate always sounded great though.  So went back to "1.4 PSA".
> 
> With 1.4 PSA my experience with U16 issues has dropped considerably.  Rarely do I get distorted audio but generally listen to 44.1kHz CDs to 96Khz PCM.



Thanks for your feedback, i have standard "1.4" since "1.4 PSA" isn't working for S/PDIF. In both cases HDMI has loud distortion and is not listenable. From what i understand,  it could be 3 things, 

My HDMI cable
Audio Gd R2R-R HDMI input ( should i get latest firmware maybe ? i have the stock one)
The Gustard internal converter that has issues converting PCM to I2S
It is strange because Roon upsampled DSD works fine through PC > Gustard > HDMI > R2R-2 Dac.
At least i can use it with S/PDIF, but i would have liked testing I2S on my dac.


----------



## wwmhf

I am up-sampling CD wav files to DSD in the following configuration

Windows 10 + foobar2000 -> USB to U16 -> I2S to Gustard X20 DAC -> amp

and I do not have issues for DSD64, DSD128. Playing DSD256 works but there are minor issues. Playing DSD512 works but with many issues so that music cannot be enjoyed anymore.


----------



## wwmhf

Ludique said:


> Did you notice this:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gustard-x26-dual-es9038pro-dac-with-ess-usb-chip.898368/
> 
> A logical step to implement it in a dac, but if they want to sell plenty of those, they really need to fix the usb fw.



I wish Gustard does not go ahead with this DAC project yet because I think they still have a lot to learn about this ESS USB chip.


----------



## BernieB (Jan 26, 2019)

wwmhf said:


> I am up-sampling CD wav files to DSD in the following configuration
> 
> Windows 10 + foobar2000 -> USB to U16 -> I2S to Gustard X20 DAC -> amp
> 
> and I do not have issues for DSD64, DSD128. Playing DSD256 works but there are minor issues. Playing DSD512 works but with many issues so that music cannot be enjoyed anymore.



No issues for me too in this configuration :

Windows 10 + Roon (upsampled to DSD128) -> USB to U16 -> I2S to Audio Gd R2R-2 -> amp

I would just not prefer to upsample everything to DSD, since i prefer the snappier sound of PCM, and PCM distort heavily with I2S on U16.


----------



## DACLadder (Jan 26, 2019)

@BernieB  Does the R2 HDMI I2S input work OK with another DDC?  Try a different HDMI cable as well and, in general, keep HDMI I2S cable short (< 1m).  Process of elimination.

"Regular 1.4" firmware will just reverse I2S data phase and L/R channels versus the "PSA" polarity.  HDMI I2S clocks are the same.  Should play OK but should hear only L-R cnannels swapped (plus absolute audio phase 180 out)....

And try 1.61 firmware as a test.  It may make a difference with your U16 in your system.


----------



## BernieB

@DACLadder I don't have access to another DDC unfortunately. I am waiting for a new high-speed 1m 2.1 HDMI cable (same as the one @FredA has ) and hope it will fix the issue. I just don't understand why DSD > Gustard > HDMI > Dac would work fine on my system but not PCM (any sample rates) > Gustard > HDMI > Dac. Isn't the job of the DDC to convert different input signals to one same output signal ? 

Thanks for your time guys, once i get that cable i'll report back, in the meantime i still can enjoy it in S/PDIF 192KHz and HDMI DSD128


----------



## darren700 (Jan 26, 2019)

wwmhf said:


> I wish Gustard does not go ahead with this DAC project yet because I think they still have a lot to learn about this ESS USB chip.



I agree, I received my second U16 that is paired with a windows 10 computer  and Uptone ISO Regen.
there seems to be bugs with the USB driver. crossfading between songs in Jriver causes loud static after a couple songs.
After disabling crossfading the problem only happens after like 10 hours, but any windows ding or notification causes it to happen again.
I have to re-install the driver and reboot the U16 for it to stop the static noise when trying to play a song.
I tried other usb ports and eliminating the ISO Regen with no resolution to this issue.
HDMI is 0.5mm Audioquest Chocolate
for now I have reconnected the R1''s USB input to the computer also to function as default sound device in windows and use the U16 I2S input for Jriver only. it works but is frustrating...
I purchased an SOTM SMS-200 Ultra Neo for my main setup and may move my SMS-200 to the second setup instead of feeding the U16 with my Win10 computer. The U16 has been great with the SMS-200 so far other than the 176/192k issues.


----------



## PitBul34 (Jan 27, 2019)

Welcome Gustard DAC-X26 with 2xES9038 and ESS8620 USB module onboard!!


----------



## FredA (Jan 26, 2019)

BernieB said:


> Thanks for your feedback, i have standard "1.4" since "1.4 PSA" isn't working for S/PDIF. In both cases HDMI has loud distortion and is not listenable. From what i understand,  it could be 3 things,
> 
> My HDMI cable
> Audio Gd R2R-R HDMI input ( should i get latest firmware maybe ? i have the stock one)
> ...


Try the 1.4 psa to see if it fixes hdmi. Be careful conecting/disconnecting as both the u16 and dac should be turned off before proceeding.


----------



## rafabro

PitBul34 said:


> Welcome Gustard DAC-X26 with 2xES9038 and ESS8620 USB module onboard!!
> More photos here


Could you post your photos in dedicated thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gustard-x26-dual-es9038pro-dac-with-ess-usb-chip.898368/


----------



## BernieB

FredA said:


> Try the 1.4 psa to see if it fixes hdmi. Be careful conecting/disconnecting as both the u16 and dac should be turned off before proceeding.



Hi @FredA , all firmwares gave me distortion regarding of sample rates except for this solution i found : 

Now i upsample PCM to 384 KHz with firmware 1.61, and it works with HDMI  !!! I let DSD64 and DSD128 as is. DSD, 384 KHz and 96 KHz are the only sample rate that work on my system with this fw (through HDMI).

The good thing for me is it also works with HQPlayer + Roon, though switching songs takes a little longer but i don't mind.
I am really happy and can now start enjoying the wonderful sound of this U16


----------



## FredA

BernieB said:


> Hi @FredA , all firmwares gave me distortion regarding of sample rates except for this solution i found :
> 
> Now i upsample PCM to 384 KHz with firmware 1.61, and it works with HDMI  !!! I let DSD64 and DSD128 as is. DSD, 384 KHz and 96 KHz are the only sample rate that work on my system with this fw (through HDMI).
> 
> ...



Stereo imaging. mids and bass are jut splendid. Enjoy!


----------



## Thenewguy007

Can anyone clarify the firmware update process?
When I open up the  USB_SPI_downloader.exe

The menu that pops up shows the current version is: GSD U16 V1.61 96k Jan  3 201915:08:46

There are two files within the firmware folder, a _"U16V1.2 0db.rom"_ & a "_U16V1_4 0db.rom"_ file.

Should I select the upgrade option & use one of those files or is the current factory installed one the latest?


----------



## Thenewguy007

Also, will the front screen always be on when the U16 is on, can it be dimmed or turned off independently?

Is there no way to have the unit burn in without having to worry about the screen burning in?


----------



## JaMo (Jan 28, 2019)

Hi again,
First. Thanks @batfier for the firmware-function tables! They have been very useful to not getting lost when trying out this.

Now, monday morning I have about 3,5 days of power on. I started by trying to get a working connection between a PiCorePlayer (Linux) and the U16. I am a loyal PiCore-user. The LMS running on the NAS along with the players works very good. Think I was lucky I guess...the third try got a hit. At that time I still had the 1.61-fw as the U16 was delivered with. I wanted to use HDMI to a R2R-7 and based on @batfier 's listings and other comments here guided me to use the "1.4 IIS PSA"- fw. First hours strange noises appeared some times when changing between formats but after playing 16/44.1 approx 30hrs the oscillators seemed to have settled enough to lock on every tested format (16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48, 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4, 24/192, 24/352.8 (could not find any 24/384... I have a few but I they seems to be well hidden...hmm) DSD 64,128).

The sound: I have had a hard time to keep the Accurate firmwares in the R2R-7. Too harsh on my ears on some tracks.. But with this U16 it is not problem any more. Superresolving and nice.. ..And this already after 80hrs. I think this is a very good investment to the audio-chain. I use decent cables but have ordered better ones... But I can live with these ; )

The maturing is ongoing. Imaging and stagesize, positioning of instruments are getting clearer by playinghours.. Bass is coming and going... This is a real pleasure and a joy to experience. A high moment of higher end performance. I sure look forward to the 2 weeks of  burned in-performance...

Really good performance for small money, this Gustard U16

/Jan


----------



## rafabro

Thenewguy007 said:


> Also, will the front screen always be on when the U16 is on, can it be dimmed or turned off independently?
> 
> Is there no way to have the unit burn in without having to worry about the screen burning in?


You just get your device and worrying about screen burning in?  It's not OLED


----------



## motberg

BernieB said:


> Thanks for your feedback, i have standard "1.4" since "1.4 PSA" isn't working for S/PDIF. In both cases HDMI has loud distortion and is not listenable. From what i understand,  it could be 3 things,
> 
> My HDMI cable
> Audio Gd R2R-R HDMI input ( should i get latest firmware maybe ? i have the stock one)
> ...





BernieB said:


> Hi @FredA , all firmwares gave me distortion regarding of sample rates except for this solution i found :
> 
> Now i upsample PCM to 384 KHz with firmware 1.61, and it works with HDMI  !!! I let DSD64 and DSD128 as is. DSD, 384 KHz and 96 KHz are the only sample rate that work on my system with this fw (through HDMI).
> 
> ...



My initial testing here... Audio GD R1 DAC with i2s HDMI U16 is somewhat similar to yours. .
So far, all natural rate PCM except 16/44 is severely distorted with i2s HDMI U16>R1 using PSAudio 1.4 firmware. (SPDIF seemed OK for all rates I tested)
0.5M SilverSonic HDMI cable
Only 16/44 PCM seems OK so far using my older U16*.
(This R1 DAC worked perfectly with all PCM file resolutions from a SU-1 via i2s HDMI)

*I have 2 U16's, one on my Audio GD NOS7 working perfectly with all PCM rates via i2s HDMI, and just received the second U16 for the R1.
Thinking maybe a problem with the newer U16, I tried using the older U16 with the R1.. the older unit is the one that plays 16/44 OK on the R1 and distorts everything else
(the newer U16 unit on the R1 played only hiss at 16/44 with both the original factory firmware and the PSAudio 1.4 firmware)

I replaced the newly received U16 into the NOS7 i2s and everything OK.. all PCM plays fine (though the lack of break-in is evident compared to the older unit).
Both  a 0.3M Wireworld Starlight and and 0.5M SilverSonic work fine with the U16>NOS7.

Then I noticed a newer driver at the shenzhenaudio site, so installed the latest driver (I think 1-25-2019 is the date) and also the latest firmware 1.61.
All PCM distorted except 24/96... 
This firmware has R/L reversed for the Audio-GD DAC... so I reversed the preamp to amp R/L interconnects...

Next up.... try upsample PCM to 384 KHz with firmware 1.61 as per your suggestion... I load HQPlayer.. find some good settings that will allow the 384 to stick through various input rates.
*Brilliant !  Works very well indeed... super many thanks for posting this idea. *
I feed the ASIO HQPlayer output to JPlay which seems to be clearer than HQPlayer direct to the U16 ASIO driver.


----------



## BernieB

motberg said:


> Next up.... try upsample PCM to 384 KHz with firmware 1.61 as per your suggestion... I load HQPlayer.. find some good settings that will allow the 384 to stick through various input rates.
> *Brilliant !  Works very well indeed... super many thanks for posting this idea. *
> I feed the ASIO HQPlayer output to JPlay which seems to be clearer than HQPlayer direct to the U16 ASIO driver.



Nice !! Glad my solution worked for you too 
It is strange that the U16 is working without issues on your Audio GD NOS7 but not R1. I was wondering myself if the problem was with my dac or the U16 itself. At least now we have a solution. Enjoy !


----------



## FredA

JaMo said:


> Hi again,
> First. Thanks @batfier for the firmware-function tables! They have been very useful to not getting lost when trying out this.
> 
> Now, monday morning I have about 3,5 days of power on. I started by trying to get a working connection between a PiCorePlayer (Linux) and the U16. I am a loyal PiCore-user. The LMS running on the NAS along with the players works very good. Think I was lucky I guess...the third try got a hit. At that time I still had the 1.61-fw as the U16 was delivered with. I wanted to use HDMI to a R2R-7 and based on @batfier 's listings and other comments here guided me to use the "1.4 IIS PSA"- fw. First hours strange noises appeared some times when changing between formats but after playing 16/44.1 approx 30hrs the oscillators seemed to have settled enough to lock on every tested format (16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48, 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4, 24/192, 24/352.8 (could not find any 24/384... I have a few but I they seems to be well hidden...hmm) DSD 64,128).
> ...


You bet. The r-7 with  v3a shines with it. Hearing the results, I am sure Kingwa tunes his dacs with a state-of-the-art transport. When Bill Evans sounds right, i am happy.  

But it’s not just Bill Evans, it’s an overall improvment, pretty much all records sound better. 

Wait, you will get a great depth and bass improvment after 200h. 

I will try removing the intona from my setup at some point. This could fix the issue with 176 and 192k. Otherwise, the sound sometimes cut when going to 96k, but it’s rare,


----------



## FredA (Jan 28, 2019)

@BernieB : Depends on how demanding a dac is with timing. You can try deactivating the « high exact » mode, this should help if you use i2s. Any lag with the usb source seems to affect the u16.


----------



## BernieB

FredA said:


> @BernieB : Depends on how demanding a dac is with timing. You can try deactivating the « high exact » mode, this should help if you use i2s. Any lag with the usb source seems to affect the u16.



Thx for the tip @FredA , i forgot about that option. I am currently playing music with the new ebay 2.1 HDMI cable i received this morning. No dropouts so far and i enjoy my setup very much. In 100-200 hours i'll have a better idea of the final sound. I have that cable + new usb audio sensibility cable + U16 who are all burning at the same time


----------



## FredA

BernieB said:


> Thx for the tip @FredA , i forgot about that option. I am currently playing music with the new ebay 2.1 HDMI cable i received this morning. No dropouts so far and i enjoy my setup very much. In 100-200 hours i'll have a better idea of the final sound. I have that cable + new usb audio sensibility cable + U16 who are all burning at the same time


Both cables need over 100 hours. My friend got an impact se and loves it.


----------



## DACLadder

Seems we all have different but somewhat similar problems with the U16.  My main issue is 44.1kHz files play with noise immediately after power on.  If I first play 96kHz and then all OK with 44.1kHz files going forward.  I have a similar issue with 176kHz files where the first attempt may be bad, then try 96kHz (OK), and go back the 176kHz file and all OK.  So my daily routine is to play 96kHz files and afterward the U16 performs pretty well. 

I would like to try another U16 but do not plan to buy another.  I'll wait for the next generation of DDCs which will hopefully function better and be more stable.  Interesting that I have a similar stability issue with the older Gustard U12.  The first U12 I had would dropout after playing OK for hours and no sound would be heard.  I purchased a 2nd U12 and it performed much better in my system. 

The big question is, when working correctly, why does the U16 sound so great?  Is it all about the clocks?  Novel circuit design?  ESS vs Xmos USB chip?  Combo of all?  It may just boil down to the U16 outputs lower jitter compared to its predecessors.


----------



## rafabro

DACLadder said:


> Combo of all?


Definitely!


----------



## Chopin75

DACLadder said:


> Seems we all have different but somewhat similar problems with the U16.  My main issue is 44.1kHz files play with noise immediately after power on.  If I first play 96kHz and then all OK with 44.1kHz files going forward.  I have a similar issue with 176kHz files where the first attempt may be bad, then try 96kHz (OK), and go back the 176kHz file and all OK.  So my daily routine is to play 96kHz files and afterward the U16 performs pretty well.
> 
> I would like to try another U16 but do not plan to buy another.  I'll wait for the next generation of DDCs which will hopefully function better and be more stable.  Interesting that I have a similar stability issue with the older Gustard U12.  The first U12 I had would dropout after playing OK for hours and no sound would be heard.  I purchased a 2nd U12 and it performed much better in my system.
> 
> The big question is, when working correctly, why does the U16 sound so great?  Is it all about the clocks?  Novel circuit design?  ESS vs Xmos USB chip?  Combo of all?  It may just boil down to the U16 outputs lower jitter compared to its predecessors.


Probably the clock matters the most! I recently just started using pink faun USB audio bridge which has a dedicated toco clock. I took out the iFIgalvanic device which reclocks the USB signal because that makes it sound worse!  Now I connect my PC to DAC without any galvanic isolation or reclocking. I think the clock closest to the DAC is most important. Placing an inferior clock further down the chain would worsen the sound. So improving the clock on the DDC may be the key.


----------



## wwmhf

My hunch for now is the Clocks used in U16 that play a key role


----------



## Thenewguy007

Chopin75 said:


> Probably the clock matters the most!



Never underestimate power supplies either. A separated, beefier power supply will always sound better than any internal small power supply.


----------



## Seegs108 (Jan 29, 2019)

Just got my Gustard U16 today.







 I'm having some odd quirks with it though. I have a PS Audio Directstream DAC and want to use the I2S port on the U16. I'm getting a pre-emphasis flag with any PCM signal sent to the Directstream DAC. With DSD I'm getting constant artifacts in the sound such as ticks, pops and what sounds like dynamic compression. When the sound gets loud it seems the dynamic range of the audio is being compressed. Has anyone else experienced these issues? I ordered through Shenzhen Audio. Where can I provide feedback to Gustard? This device is advertised to be compatible with PS Audio's I2S implementation. Unfortunately it seems there are a lot of bugs with this device still. Unless they can resolve them, I might be forced to return this. I have a Singxer SU-1 and it has been flawless with it's Windows 10 drivers and I have no issues with PCM or DSD. The Windows driver for the U16 is very buggy. Doing something as simple as trying to adjust the volume in Windows or pressing the mute button makes the U16 unstable momentarily. No such issues with the Singxer. Here you can see the issue where a pre-emphasis flag is incorrectly being sent:


----------



## darren700

Seegs108 said:


> Just got my Gustard U16 today.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having some odd quirks with it though. I have a PS Audio Directstream DAC and want to use the I2S port on the U16. I'm getting a pre-emphasis flag with any PCM signal sent to the Directstream DAC. With DSD I'm getting constant artifacts in the sound such as ticks, pops and what sounds like dynamic compression. When the sound gets loud it seems the dynamic range of the audio is being compressed. Has anyone else experienced these issues? I ordered through Shenzhen Audio. Where can I provide feedback to Gustard? This device is advertised to be compatible with PS Audio's I2S implementation. Unfortunately it seems there are a lot of bugs with this device still. Unless they can resolve them, I might be forced to return this. I have a Singxer SU-1 and it has been flawless with it's Windows 10 drivers and I have no issues with PCM or DSD. The Windows driver for the U16 is very buggy. Doing something as simple as trying to adjust the volume in Windows or pressing the mute button makes the U16 unstable momentarily. No such issues with the Singxer. Here you can see the issue where a pre-emphasis flag is incorrectly being sent:



i would suggest flashing a different firmware. the stock firmware probably isn't correct for PS Audio.
my second U16 that I received from Shenzhen had V1.2, they are up to 1.61 now.
1.4 seems to be the most stable though. Make sure you flash the PSA version for correct output to your DAC. 
download them here, instructions included also: https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/


----------



## Seegs108 (Jan 29, 2019)

darren700 said:


> i would suggest flashing a different firmware. the stock firmware probably isn't correct for PS Audio.
> my second U16 that I received from Shenzhen had V1.2, they are up to 1.61 now.
> 1.4 seems to be the most stable though. Make sure you flash the PSA version for correct output to your DAC.
> download them here, instructions included also: https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/



I've already flashed the 1.4 PSA rom onto the U16 and am still experiencing the same issues.


----------



## Seegs108 (Jan 29, 2019)

Okay, so the issues with DSD seem to be resolved if you use the ASIO output option within Foobar or JRiver. DSD with WASAPI output is totally broken with the U16 and a PS Audio Directstream DAC with the 1.4 PSA ROM and current driver. However, I'm still hearing some problems within Windows. Adjusting the volume and mute within Windows makes the U16 fairly unstable. It seems the Windows driver needs some work and the pre-emphasis flag needs to be removed with PCM signals.


----------



## rafabro (Jan 29, 2019)

Seegs108 said:


> The Windows driver for the U16 is very buggy.


No is not. More likely you have some conflict in your system.

Why you use system to adjust volume? It's the worst possible option. Use amplifier attenuator.


----------



## Seegs108

rafabro said:


> No is not. More likely you have some conflict in your system.
> 
> Why you use system to adjust volume? It's the worst possible option. Use amplifier attenuator.



I'm aware that using Windows volume control is less than ideal, but when you're just browsing the internet it's more than fine to use. I use WASAPI or ASIO output when listening to music. You're also wrong about the driver being buggy. I have it installed on three devices and have the same exact issues on all three devices. I've also tried different USB cables, power cables, and HDMI cables.


----------



## FredA

Seegs108 said:


> I'm aware that using Windows volume control is less than ideal, but when you're just browsing the internet it's more than fine to use. I use WASAPI or ASIO output when listening to music. You're also wrong about the driver being buggy. I have it installed on three devices and have the same exact issues on all three devices. I've also tried different USB cables, power cables, and HDMI cables.


The u16 also has built in volume control. It’s another option.


----------



## Seegs108

FredA said:


> The u16 also has built in volume control. It’s another option.


Normally I only use the Directstream's volume control as it is lossless. However for non-critical listening, for things such as YouTube, I don't mind using the software volume control inside Windows. Again though, the Windows driver needs work. Or it is a specific issue with how the U16 interacts with PS Audio's I2S interface. But seeing how this is one of the 3 advertised supported I2S protocols it seems odd to me that both pre-emphasis is enabled at all times and it seems unstable with the other things previously mentioned. The Singxer SU-1 has absolutely none of these issues by comparison. Gustard needs to work on the software. It's not ready for primetime.


----------



## Seegs108 (Jan 29, 2019)

The pre-emphasis issue seems to be reoccuring with components from Gustard. The U12 seems to have the same issue. I hope someone from Gustard reads this thread and will fix it because without the fix, the U16 doesn't actually fully support PS Audio's I2S protocol:

https://forum.psaudio.com/t/ds-i2s-input

This isn't just an issue with PS Audio products but many others as PS Audio's protocol is free to use and a ton of other products from other companies are using it for their I2S ports.


----------



## FredA

Seegs108 said:


> Normally I only use the Directstream's volume control as it is lossless. However for non-critical listening, for things such as YouTube, I don't mind using the software volume control inside Windows. Again though, the Windows driver needs work. Or it is a specific issue with how the U16 interacts with PS Audio's I2S interface. But seeing how this is one of the 3 advertised supported I2S protocols it seems odd to me that both pre-emphasis is enabled at all times and it seems unstable with the other things previously mentioned. The Singxer SU-1 has absolutely none of these issues by comparison. Gustard needs to work on the software. It's not ready for primetime.



We pretty much all agree on this. Gustard has some issues with its software and needs to fix them ASAP.


----------



## darren700 (Jan 29, 2019)

So it seems there is a compatibility issue on the Audio-GD R1 with the U16. The only thing that plays correctly is 44khz
Anything else upon sample rate change i get loud static. I tried the synchronizer setting on my DAC but that didn't help unfortunately, made it static for everything lol

I have 2 U16's. one with Audio-GD R2R7 and one with R1. (one has 1.4 PSA firmware, the other 1.61)

I tried both U16's on the R2R7 and it plays 44, 48, 96, DSD perfect, with some issues on 192khz and 176khz.

On the Audio-GD R1 I tried the following sources (and multiple HDMI Cables):
SOTM sMS-200
SOTM sMS-200 Ultra
Windows 10 Computer

All have the exact same issue with the Audio-GD R1 (V3 Firmware):  static with any sample rate other than 44khz
For now i limited jriver to output 44khz to prevent the static.
However this is frustrating because windows keeps defaulting to 48khz for sound, So i have to run another USB input into my R1 for windows audio/gaming/movies etc. and now I have to switch inputs back and forth on my R1.
I am undecided on whether I am going to keep the second U16 for my R1.

This really is a shame as this little unit sounds amazing in my main system with R2R-7. Just integrated the SOTM sMS-200 Ultra Neo today and my jaw dropped..... without any break-in it is already a huge step up from the sMS-200 which is no slouch and I was perfectly happy with... but you know how this hobby is, gotta try the new gear!


----------



## soundlogic

Seegs108 said:


> The pre-emphasis issue seems to be reoccuring with components from Gustard. The U12 seems to have the same issue. I hope someone from Gustard reads this thread and will fix it because without the fix, the U16 doesn't actually fully support PS Audio's I2S protocol:
> 
> https://forum.psaudio.com/t/ds-i2s-input
> 
> This isn't just an issue with PS Audio products but many others as PS Audio's protocol is free to use and a ton of other products from other companies are using it for their I2S ports.



I am using the U16 with 1.4 firmware, unit was delivered just before Xmas 2018. Source is an Auralic Aries streamer, usb into Gustard U16, I2S out of U16 into PS Audio Directstream. Other than the pre-emphasis flag in the dac's window as you have... I have zero issues similar to yours, or any of the previous poster's complaints of certain files not playing, or noise issues. Go figure. Like many of the posters in the beginning of this thread, my experience has been that my U16 is a huge sonic bang for the buck, and plays well with the Aries and Directstream.


----------



## Seegs108 (Jan 29, 2019)

soundlogic said:


> I am using the U16 with 1.4 firmware, unit was delivered just before Xmas 2018. Source is an Auralic Aries streamer, usb into Gustard U16, I2S out of U16 into PS Audio Directstream. Other than the pre-emphasis flag in the dac's window as you have... I have zero issues similar to yours, or any of the previous poster's complaints of certain files not playing, or noise issues. Go figure. Like many of the posters in the beginning of this thread, my experience has been that my U16 is a huge sonic bang for the buck, and plays well with the Aries and Directstream.



Its not that files don't play, its that there was odd noise with DSD playback. But that is resolved with ASIO output. WASAPI output with DSD seems broken. Have you tried USB direct from a PC? From your posts it seems your source is an Aries. If you have the chance to, connect a laptop or desktop PC and try adjusting the volume in Windows. See if you hear any noise when the chime occurs when you adjust the volume. There is some lag due to what seems like a bug and the chime sound is noisey. This occurs on 3 seperate Windows PCs.

Pre-emphasis is the bigger issue because it forces an EQ in the DAC and rolls off the high frequencies. So you're actually missing out on audio data when this flag is sent.


----------



## BernieB

darren700 said:


> So it seems there is a compatibility issue on the Audio-GD R1 with the U16. The only thing that plays correctly is 44khz
> Anything else upon sample rate change i get loud static. I tried the synchronizer setting on my DAC but that didn't help unfortunately, made it static for everything lol
> 
> I have 2 U16's. one with Audio-GD R2R7 and one with R1. (one has 1.4 PSA firmware, the other 1.61)
> ...



I was in the same boat with my Audio-GD R2R-2, all firmwares and sample rates gave me distortion until i found this only solution that worked on my system. If you haven't try it, it is worth a shot. See posts #503 and #509.


----------



## BernieB

Chopin75 said:


> Probably the clock matters the most! I recently just started using pink faun USB audio bridge which has a dedicated toco clock. I took out the iFIgalvanic device which reclocks the USB signal because that makes it sound worse!  Now I connect my PC to DAC without any galvanic isolation or reclocking. I think the clock closest to the DAC is most important. Placing an inferior clock further down the chain would worsen the sound. So improving the clock on the DDC may be the key.



I always wondered if that pink faun USB bridge would make a noticeable difference vs usb cable straight from pc usb port. From your experience, does it bring any improvements ?


----------



## darren700 (Jan 29, 2019)

BernieB said:


> I was in the same boat with my Audio-GD R2R-2, all firmwares and sample rates gave me distortion until i found this only solution that worked on my system. If you haven't try it, it is worth a shot. See posts #503 and #509.




I saw that post but just realized you were using V1.61 firmware, I flashed back to V1.61 and I am using SOX to re-sample to 384khz in Jriver and success!!! Thanks for making me take a second look at that post! 384khz actually works great in windows settings also!. maybe I will be able to keep both U16's afterall...


 I emailed Kingwa at Audio-GD describing my issues, so I will see what he says, below is what I sent him:

Dear Kingwa.
I purchased 2 Gustard U16 DDC's to use with my R2R-7 and R1 I2S inputs.
They both work great with I2S into my R2R-7 but I am having problems with I2S into my R1.
On the R1  (V3 Firmware) with any sample rate higher than 44hkz I get a loud static noise (only 44khz works).
On the R2R-7 I tried both Gustard U16's without any problem. (44, 48, 96, DSD, all work ok)
With the R1 I tried multiple sources (Windows 10, SOTM sMS-200, SOTM sMS-200 Ultra)
all sources had the same problem with the Gustard U16 on the R1, static with any sample rates over 44khz
I also tried turning on the synchronizer setting on the R1 but that caused nothing to work, static on all sample rates.

Do you have any advice on how to solve this? It is strange that the U16 works great on R2R-7 (V3S) but not on the R1 (V3)

Thank You


----------



## soundlogic

Seegs108 said:


> Its not that files don't play, its that there was odd noise with DSD playback. But that is resolved with ASIO output. WASAPI output with DSD seems broken. Have you tried USB direct from a PC? From your posts it seems your source is an Aries. If you have the chance to, connect a laptop or desktop PC and try adjusting the volume in Windows. See if you hear any noise when the chime occurs when you adjust the volume. There is some lag due to what seems like a bug and the chime sound is noisey. This occurs on 3 seperate Windows PCs.
> 
> Pre-emphasis is the bigger issue because it forces an EQ in the DAC and rolls off the high frequencies. So you're actually missing out on audio data when this flag is sent.



I don’t own ANYTHING Windows...and honestly, I don’t notice any roll-off high frequencies. But i’ll Take your word for it. At any rate, Gustard needs to address their software. I wonder if they are monitoring this thread?


----------



## Seegs108 (Jan 29, 2019)

soundlogic said:


> I don’t own ANYTHING Windows...and honestly, I don’t notice any roll-off high frequencies. But i’ll Take your word for it. At any rate, Gustard needs to address their software. I wonder if they are monitoring this thread?



When you see that pre-emphasis icon show up on your Directstream's screen that means it recognizes the flag but also that the EQ is being used. This means that there will be a roll off of high frequency audio. While you might not notice it, it's definitely happening when that icon is there.


----------



## BernieB

darren700 said:


> I saw that post but just realized you were using V1.61 firmware, I flashed back to V1.61 and I am using SOX to re-sample to 384khz in Jriver and success!!! Thanks for making me take a second look at that post! 384khz actually works great in windows settings also!. maybe I will be able to keep both U16's afterall...
> 
> 
> I emailed Kingwa at Audio-GD describing my issues, so I will see what he says, below is what I sent him:
> ...


Very nice ! Glad i could help you with this. Yeah i also let my windows 10 sound settings to 384khz so youtube and others can play music correctly.


----------



## FredA

To the least, the u16 is not fully compliant to the ps audio i2s format. The devil is in the details.

It seems like the audio-gd r-1 and r-7 do not lock the signal the exact same way. But i assume both would work pefectly with a perfectly compliant signal, as it does with the singxer and amanero offerings.


----------



## darren700

BernieB said:


> Very nice ! Glad i could help you with this. Yeah i also let my windows 10 sound settings to 384khz so youtube and others can play music correctly.



So now I am running V1.61 on both my U16's.

In post #509 *motberg *stated that with V1.61 the L/R channels are swapped with Audio-GD DAC's. Which confused me because testing posted earlier in this thread claimed no issue with V1.61 and channels on R7 (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...ing-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-32#post-14738080)

So I tested the channels on both my R2R7 and R1, here is where it gets strange:

On my R2R7 the channels are not swapped with V1.61. (44khz)
On my R1 the channels are swapped! (384 khz)
how weird is that. I swapped the interconnects on my Master 9 to compensate for the R1 but it is strange that 2 audio-gd dac's have different results with I2S.


----------



## batfier

darren700 said:


> So now I am running V1.61 on both my U16's.
> 
> In post #509 *motberg *stated that with V1.61 the L/R channels are swapped with Audio-GD DAC's. Which confused me because testing posted earlier in this thread claimed no issue with V1.61 and channels on R7 (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...ing-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-32#post-14738080)
> 
> ...



just in case...

in 1.61 you need to select the I2S mode via button.

if psa mode doesn't work you could try gsd.

in any case, if you use the same mode for both AGD devices it should be the same.


----------



## batfier

soundlogic said:


> I am using the U16 with 1.4 firmware, unit was delivered just before Xmas 2018. Source is an Auralic Aries streamer, usb into Gustard U16, I2S out of U16 into PS Audio Directstream. Other than the pre-emphasis flag in the dac's window as you have... I have zero issues similar to yours, or any of the previous poster's complaints of certain files not playing, or noise issues. Go figure. Like many of the posters in the beginning of this thread, my experience has been that my U16 is a huge sonic bang for the buck, and plays well with the Aries and Directstream.



interesting. 

you are using 1.4 plain or 1.4_psa?

are you l/r channels swapped?

have you tried 176khz and 192khz files? 

have you tried the non I2S outputs?


----------



## darren700

batfier said:


> just in case...
> 
> in 1.61 you need to select the I2S mode via button.
> 
> ...



I did select the PSA setting, both my U16's are set the same.



batfier said:


> interesting.
> 
> you are using 1.4 plain or 1.4_psa?
> are you l/r channels swapped?
> ...



1.61 set to PSA for both my U16's.
L/R swapped on R1 but not on R2R-7
176 and 192 still have problems on my R2R-7
Everything is up-sampled to 384khz on my R1
No I have not tried non I2S outputs, the whole point of this DDC is for me to use the I2S Outputs.


----------



## rafabro

Seegs108 said:


> I'm aware that using Windows volume control is less than ideal, but when you're just browsing the internet it's more than fine to use. I use WASAPI or ASIO output when listening to music. You're also wrong about the driver being buggy. I have it installed on three devices and have the same exact issues on all three devices. I've also tried different USB cables, power cables, and HDMI cables.


I believe I am right for my usage. It's connected to my audio server and DAC purely for music. And it does work as suppose to.
To watch YT or anything like that I have separate PC.


----------



## soundlogic

batfier said:


> interesting.
> 
> you are using 1.4 plain or 1.4_psa?
> 
> ...



1.4 PSA
I only use I2s so no I have not tried other outs
L&R channels are normal
all files play with no distortion


----------



## Seegs108

FredA said:


> To the least, the u16 is not fully compliant to the ps audio i2s format. The devil is in the details.
> 
> It seems like the audio-gd r-1 and r-7 do not lock the signal the exact same way. But i assume both would work pefectly with a perfectly compliant signal, as it does with the singxer and amanero offerings.



I haven't spent enough time with the U16 to make any judgement on sound quality over the the Singxer SU-1. But if I decide that it definitely sounds better, I might consider keeping the U16 despite some of these odd software issues.


rafabro said:


> I believe I am right for my usage. It's connected to my audio server and DAC purely for music. And it does work as suppose to.
> To watch YT or anything like that I have separate PC.



The issue is that you're claiming it works fine but you don't have the same setup as I do so it doesn't make sense to me for you to claim that it works fine. In general the U16 works, but on occasion there is distortion in the audio and some hiccups elsewhere. Normally the distortion happens when switching between PCM, DSD and bit depth/sample rates. In Windows there is also distortion when changing the software volume control. All of this indicates that the Windows 10 driver needs work and/or ROM needs further development. The PS Audio I2S implementation the U16 is trying to meet also has an issue where it's sending a pre-emphasis flag at all times with a PCM signal. This is the issue I'd like to see fixed first as I think it's the most detrimental to the audio.


----------



## Ludique (Jan 30, 2019)

Anyone with 1.61 and i2s experiencing that only one channel plays at 44.1? Sometimes right, sometimes left.


----------



## henkeman

Have anyone tried to connect to the U16 through an Icron/Startech or similar LAN or fiber USB extender?
I have just bought an Icron 2224 USB over fiber extender that really displays theese distortions.  
There is no problems at all with distortions when connecting direct to the computers (tried four) win 10


----------



## Seegs108

batfier said:


> just in case...
> 
> in 1.61 you need to select the I2S mode via button.
> 
> ...



With v1.61 what button(s) are you pressing to switch between I2S output modes?


----------



## Thenewguy007

Seegs108 said:


> I haven't spent enough time with the U16 to make any judgement on sound quality over the the Singxer SU-1. But if I decide that it definitely sounds better, I might consider keeping the U16 despite some of these odd software issues.



Haven't fully burned it in yet, but the U16 is definitely on the more full bodied/warmer side. I wouldn't say it is all around better, just a good alternative with a different sound so far.


----------



## batfier

Seegs108 said:


> With v1.61 what button(s) are you pressing to switch between I2S output modes?


press and hold the left button. 
in right upper corner you can see the mode, repeat until you see psa


----------



## Cortes

Doing the first tests with my U16, but the screen only shows 48khz, irrespective of the sampling rate in foobar.  That's happening in a laptop with Windows 8 and another with Windows 10.


----------



## FredA

Cortes said:


> Doing the first tests with my U16, but the screen only shows 48khz, irrespective of the sampling rate in foobar.  That's happening in a laptop with Windows 8 and another with Windows 10.


I could be normal with windows. All sound sources are converted to 48k, to be mixed, by default.

In foobar, you have to check the exclusive access option if not done already.


----------



## DACLadder (Jan 31, 2019)

@Cortes  What device are you selecting in Foobar Output->Device?  Appears it could be set to the primary Windows output which always re-samples everything to the rate selected in Windows sound settings (48kHz could be the default).

With Foobar I always use WASAPI (event) to play the native sampling rates.  And the rates are indicated correctly on the U16 display as different songs are played.

If you are sure Foobar is set correctly the U16 could just not be displaying the right info but playing back OK.  If so you are the first to report.


----------



## FredA

DACLadder said:


> @Cortes  What device are you selecting in Foobar Output->Device?  Appears it could be set to the primary Windows output which always re-samples everything to the rate selected in Windows sound settings (48kHz could be the default).
> 
> With Foobar I always use WASAPI (event) to play the native sampling rates.  And the rates are indicated correctly on the U16 display as different songs are played.
> 
> If you are sure Foobar is set correctly the U16 could just not be displaying the rightt info but playing back OK.  If so you are the first to report.


I did not remember if wasapi had to be installed. Thanks for correcting my post. 

Wasapi brings a nice sound improvement. I did install it at the office for my r2r-11 setup.


----------



## wwmhf

Cortes said:


> Doing the first tests with my U16, but the screen only shows 48khz, irrespective of the sampling rate in foobar.  That's happening in a laptop with Windows 8 and another with Windows 10.



I just tried the following with a Windows 10 computer:

foobar2000/WASAPI (event) -> USB to U16 -> I2S to Guastard X20 dac 

The display on U16 for CD wav files is correct


----------



## DACLadder

@FredA Thanks, I forgot that WASAPI is an installed Foobar component and not available with the standard release.  Same with _.dsf_ DSD file support.  And the these components are is easily found, downloaded, and installed.  To find just Google search 'foobar wasapi component' and 'foobar dsdiff component'.


----------



## Cortes

DACLadder said:


> @Cortes  What device are you selecting in Foobar Output->Device?  Appears it could be set to the primary Windows output which always re-samples everything to the rate selected in Windows sound settings (48kHz could be the default).
> 
> With Foobar I always use WASAPI (event) to play the native sampling rates.  And the rates are indicated correctly on the U16 display as different songs are played.
> 
> If you are sure Foobar is set correctly the U16 could just not be displaying the right info but playing back OK.  If so you are the first to report.




you're right!. I didn't have the wasapi installed. I installed it and now the display shows the correct frequency. That was silly on my side.

Thanks!


----------



## motberg

batfier said:


> press and hold the left button.
> in right upper corner you can see the mode, repeat until you see psa



This corrected the R/L inversion problem I was having with R1 DAC and U16 1.61.
I changed the mode to PSA and now the right and left channels are correct. (44.1 is still hisssss however..)
Thanks for the post - I do not remember this information in the formal instructions...


----------



## DACLadder (Feb 1, 2019)

Cortes said:


> you're right!. I didn't have the wasapi installed. I installed it and now the display shows the correct frequency. That was silly on my side.
> Thanks!



Excellent!  Also with Foobar make sure ReplayGain is turned off for bit perfect playback.  On new installs this is turned on automatically.  You can find the setting under Preferences->Playback.  Just set 'Source Mode' and 'Processing' to 'none'.

ReplayGain is a loudness control attempting to keep all file playback volume levels uniform.  I went nuts trying to figure why my system did not sound as good when changing computers and reinstalling Foobar.


----------



## DACLadder

motberg said:


> This corrected the R/L inversion problem I was having with R1 DAC and U16 1.61.
> I changed the mode to PSA and now the right and left channels are correct. (44.1 is still hisssss however..)
> Thanks for the post - I do not remember this information in the formal instructions...



It is so new it is not documented in U16 literature.  These button push mode changes are included for U16 firmwares 1.58 and 1.61 (and up presumably).   The other button also does a mode change for fixed 0dB output or ability to scale volume with a player (like 'volumio' for instance).

Besides L-R swaps 'PSA' mode will correct the absolute audio phase in both channels.


----------



## henkeman

Im repeating my question, has anyone got the U16 to work with Icron/Startech/Lanrover etc USB over ethernet/fiber extenders?


----------



## Cortes

Funny, I was looking for a DAC, and found that RME realsed recently  the  RME ADI-2 FS, a stripped down version of the Pro version at half price.  It has not USB input, it's obviously geared towards professionals, and more likely the DAC section is the same in both. Now with the U16 I'm seriously tempted, since RME is serious company with real engineering.


----------



## Ludique (Feb 3, 2019)

I opened my U16, it has a couple added components compared to the photos available and says V6.1_2.0, NOV 5 2018. Right behind the hdmi jack is a "DSD flag" switch with two possible settings.


----------



## JaMo

Ludique said:


> I opened my U16, it has a couple added components compared to the photos available and says V6.1_2.0, NOV 5 2018. Right behind the hdmi jack is a "DSD flag" switch with two possible settings.



Very interesting. Did You take a photo of of the interal?
/Jan


----------



## Ludique (Feb 3, 2019)

Detail of the pins behind the hdmi. Looks like it has three positions.


----------



## JaMo

Thanks for the picture. I don't undastand what the switch/jumpers does... Maybe somebody here can have an idea..
Besides that I can spot the better isolation transformer för the SDPDIF (RCA) and propably also on the AES XLR output.  DA101C is better than the Pulse ones use earlier.
/Jan


----------



## soumya.banerjee (Feb 3, 2019)

Finally got Thesycon driver configuration working for U-16. Can now adjust ASIO buffer size amongst other things.

The volume tab makes it possible to adjust volume if U-16 is set to 'STD mode'. In 0 dB mode, it has NO effect! Just as advertised.


----------



## wwmhf

Very interesting!!! Where did you get that Thesycon driver?


----------



## henkeman

That is great! How did you get Thesycon driver to work? Did it solved any problem with distortion if you had any to begin with?


----------



## soumya.banerjee (Feb 3, 2019)

So the U16 drivers are version 4.47 of Thesycon drivers. That's the same version as FiiO's latest Q5/X7 drivers. So I copied the CplApp.exe, the Xml file and the ini file.
Rename them to GustardAudioUSBAudioCpl.exe, GustardAudioUSBAudioCpl.xml.
Insert the InterfaceGUID = {0A5FD377-0EF8-4380-AD47-F0B86D4796E0} in xml file where it says
<DriverInterfaceGUID>{0A5FD377-0EF8-4380-AD47-F0B86D4796E0}</DriverInterfaceGUID>.

Make all Auto or Hidden options set to Visible. And you are good to go.


Gosh U16 sounds fab with 8 samples (44.1/48k fs) latency on jRiver!


----------



## Seegs108

soumya.banerjee said:


> So the U16 drivers are version 4.47 of Thesycon drivers. That's the same version as FiiO's latest Q5/X7 drivers. So I copied the CplApp.exe, the Xml file and the ini file.
> Rename them to GustardAudioUSBAudioCpl.exe, GustardAudioUSBAudioCpl.xml.
> Insert the InterfaceGUID = {0A5FD377-0EF8-4380-AD47-F0B86D4796E0} in xml file where it says
> <DriverInterfaceGUID>{0A5FD377-0EF8-4380-AD47-F0B86D4796E0}</DriverInterfaceGUID>.
> ...



Is there anyway you could make the modifications to these files and upload a zip file for us to download? I just want to be sure everything is set properly.


----------



## henkeman

Yes I think many of us specially with distortion problems would be very much interested if that was possible. What was the original asio buffer size and what is the maximum value?


----------



## soumya.banerjee

Seegs108 said:


> Is there anyway you could make the modifications to these files and upload a zip file for us to download? I just want to be sure everything is set properly.



There you go...
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=56543198757744070629
https://uploadfiles.io/206ob

Copy the contents to C:\Program Files\Gustard USB Audio Driver\W10_x64


----------



## wwmhf

Soumya, Thank your very much!!!


----------



## wwmhf

Soumya's files work for me! Thanks again. I am experimenting with U16 with this new control/interface....


----------



## rafabro

soumya.banerjee said:


> So the U16 drivers are version 4.47 of Thesycon drivers. That's the same version as FiiO's latest Q5/X7 drivers. So I copied the CplApp.exe, the Xml file and the ini file.
> Rename them to GustardAudioUSBAudioCpl.exe, GustardAudioUSBAudioCpl.xml.
> Insert the InterfaceGUID = {0A5FD377-0EF8-4380-AD47-F0B86D4796E0} in xml file where it says
> <DriverInterfaceGUID>{0A5FD377-0EF8-4380-AD47-F0B86D4796E0}</DriverInterfaceGUID>.
> ...


Every time I change buffer size it goes back to 2048 samples. Do I need reboot or something else?


----------



## soumya.banerjee

wwmhf said:


> Soumya's files work for me! Thanks again. I am experimenting with U16 with this new control/interface....


Happy to help! Glad things work for you as I intended. Enjoy!


----------



## soumya.banerjee

rafabro said:


> Every time I change buffer size it goes back to 2048 samples. Do I need reboot or something else?



Depends on your player. Are you using HqPlayer or have Hardware buffer enabled in ASIO setting of Jriver, If so either disable it or set it to default (for HQPlayer).
In other words don't let the application control the hardware buffer.


----------



## wwmhf

where did you change the buffer size?


----------



## rafabro

soumya.banerjee said:


> Depends on your player. Are you using HqPlayer or have Hardware buffer enabled in ASIO setting of Jriver, If so either disable it or set it to default (for HQPlayer).
> In other words don't let the application control the hardware buffer.


Great suggestion as make sense. I disabled Hardware buffer in JRiver and now I can choose buffer size as I want. Thanks!


----------



## wwmhf

To be clear, here is my setup:

Windows 10 + foobar2000 -> USB to U16/1.4 firmware -> I2S to Gustard X20

In foobar2000, I am using foo_dsd_asio to upsample my CD wav files to DSD128 or DSD256, or DS512. The Buffer length in foobar2000 is now set to 20020 ms, but, in this Gustard U-16 Interface Soumya brought to us, I set the Buffer Settings to the largest possible value + checking Safe Mode

Now, I have played upsampling to DSD512 for a few songs, so far no issues. I could not do this before without hearing noise or minor pops


----------



## rafabro

wwmhf said:


> where did you change the buffer size?


Those files contains small app - a control panel from previous page


----------



## wwmhf

Using the largest possible buffer value in this Gustard U-16 Interface Soumya brought to us, the following set also seems to work fine now:

Windows 10 + foobar2000 -> USB to U16/1.61 firmware -> I2S to Gustard X20

Upsampling CD wav files to DSD512 seems to work fine


----------



## henkeman

Thank you Soumya.
Unfortunately it did not solve my issue with Icron 2224.

What is really weird is if I plug an wireless reciever for an logitech k400 into the icron the distortions gets much lesser, do anyone got any idea about that? Maybe something with frequency, clocks? Frustrating no sample rate works for me.


----------



## GENiX

Hello,
I have this situation:
- I send a signal in the format "DSD64 DoP" to the input U16 (USB)
- I get a signal in the format "DSD64 Native" from the output of the U16 (AES and Coax)

Maybe you know how to get a signal in the format "DSD64 DoP" (at the outputs - AES / Coax)?

Maybe something needs to be changed in the ASIO driver files? (I use Windows 10 and the Gustard_USBAudio_v1A_2018-10-15_setup.exe driver)

I would be very grateful for the help ... otherwise my DAC does not understand "DSD Native"


----------



## rafabro

But what is your DAC?


----------



## GENiX

My DAC - Exogal Comet DAC ...


----------



## GENiX

rafabro said:


> But what is your DAC?


My DAC - Exogal Comet DAC ...


----------



## rafabro

GENiX said:


> My DAC - Exogal Comet DAC ...


So I don't get it. Manufacturer web page says dsd only on USB http://www.exogal.com/products/comet-dac
In this case U16 can be connected only by AES or BNC. Then there is no dsd at all...


----------



## wwmhf (Feb 3, 2019)

Using the largest possible buffer value in this Gustard U-16 Interface Soumya brought to us, the following set up work well when upsampling CD wav files to DS512:

Windows 10 + foobar2000 -> USB to U16/1.4 firmware -> I2S to Gustard X20

This is the first time I can use this Gustard X20 DAC for DSD512 upsampling satisfactorily.


----------



## DACLadder

@*soumya.banerjee*  Thanks for posting the Thesycon ASIO drivers.  Sounds very good with Foobar2000 (Win 10) into the AGD R7 DAC HDMI I2S.  I was getting ticks and pops until I adjusted the buffer sample size to the suggested lowest setting (8 samples 44.1khz, 16 samples 88.1kHz, etc).  Works fine up to 384 khz sampling rates PCM.  And still using U16 firmware 1.4 PSA.


----------



## soumya.banerjee

DACLadder said:


> @*soumya.banerjee*  Thanks for posting the Thesycon ASIO drivers.  Sounds very good with Foobar2000 (Win 10) into the AGD R7 DAC HDMI I2S.  I was getting ticks and pops until I adjusted the buffer sample size to the suggested lowest setting (8 samples 44.1khz, 16 samples 88.1kHz, etc).  Works fine up to 384 khz sampling rates PCM.  And still using U16 firmware 1.4 PSA.



Thanks @DACLadder , glad it helped you and I assume many other U-16 owners in any imaginable way!
Assuming there were no repeat downloads, I see 23 as of this writing. Didn't know Gustard sold these many units in such a short time - given this is just a USB interface and more so, when SU-1 has held dominance for so long.
I thought something around 10 units since November launch would be a good enough reception for a little known and such niche product.


----------



## soumya.banerjee

One thing I would like to clarify, since there is Thesycon licensing model involved :

What I provided in that upload is not the real driver but merely the control panel interface for Thesycon drivers licensed to VID/PID of Gustard U16. It still makes use of the drivers originally provided by Gustard and duly licensed by Thesycon and Microsoft WDDM.
Ideally, per Thesycon page, this control panel comes along with the customised driver and no separate license fee is incurred to OEM by Thesycon for this. So it beats me why Gustard didn't provide this at first place.

I dropped PM to Gustard Audio rep on Facebook on two different occasions and they never responded to my request for including the control panel app! They however did respond to my bug report about Holo Spring I2S configuration. Not sure what's the picture here...


----------



## DACLadder

@soumya.banerjee  I see.  The Thesycon control panel is a nice tool otherwise for adjustments.  Thanks again.  I'm sure Gustard wants to steer clear of any application that potentially requires licensing fees.  These upfront fees can be expensive. 

The ASIO drivers work best on my Win 10 PC when no other application is running.  For instance, when loading a web page for viewing in a browser I can hear ticks and pops in the ASIO audio until the web page has completely loaded.  So it seems ASIO with the lowest buffer sample size works best when the PC is dedicated for audio only. 

Sounds good when working!


----------



## soumya.banerjee

DACLadder said:


> The ASIO drivers work best on my Win 10 PC when no other application is running.  For instance, when loading a web page for viewing in a browser I can hear ticks and pops in the ASIO audio until the web page has completely loaded.  So it seems ASIO with the lowest buffer sample size works best when the PC is dedicated for audio only.



Yeah, we have to be mindful about low latency, ideally it's recommended to keep the system running in High Performance mode and disable any CPU clock throttling like Intel Speed Step etc. The thing with low latency (small buffer sizes) is that makes CPU calls very frequently so if the CPU is busy doing something else or scheduler priority tells to keep player process or ASIO thread at lower priority than the other tasks performed, there will be drops. But then big buffer sizes screw up the speed and spatial information of the music being played. I will rather have bigger buffer in player followed by smaller buffer for driver.

Another thing, Thesycon by default keeps shared model between ASIO and Windows Direct Sound enabled. What that means is if you are playing a 44.1 k stream from player via ASIO and simultaneously also play a 44.1 k stream from Direct Sound player or from a browser for instance, Thesycon will do software mixing of both streams and play them together. So it's no longer truly bit perfect as far as your ASIO client is concerned at least.
What I do is I completely uninstall Windows KS, Direct Sound drivers of Thesycon - Gustard in this case. Just the USB Audio 2 drivers and ASIO drivers are left behind. Again, this is my personal line of usage - but assures me bit perfect playback - directly between the end-points from ASIO client to hardware.


----------



## rafabro

On Saturday my friend visited me with his slightly moded SU-1 and the result is he ordered U16 for himself


----------



## Quadman

A friend who I built a nice music server for has the U16 from the most recent shipments and a LKS 004 dac.  Yesterday through a team viewer session I attempted to flash his firmware.  Wow was it frustrating.  I downloaded the appropriate Firmware tool and it took over 30 minutes to get that tool to see the current firmware version of the U16.  I closed HQP and Roon, disabled any output zones in roon and went into sound panel and disabled U16 driver as instructions said.  Actually I ended up toggling between disable and enable.  He had to try every USB port on his PC almost twice before the firmware tool reported the current FW version it was 1.61 96K then I aimed it at the Fw 1.4 LKS rom file and hit upgrade it for 15 minutes FW tool reported downloading.  Eventually I closed the program and we started again, another 20 minutes to find a USB port that reported the current FW version, that port was different than first attempt.  Again aimed it at the 1.4 LKS rom file and it flashed pretty quickly this time and then reported current FW as 1.4 LKS.

Then I went about getting his system back up and running for DSD512.  In roon I was able to enable the ASIO U16 output and set it for DSD512 upsampling.  But now HQP would not upsample to DSD512, it upsampled everything to PCM 384.  No matter what I tried (and I am a 3 year user of HQP), I could not get it to upsample to DSD.  So I left his system with Roon upsampling to DSD512.

Has anyone else experienced such issues with FW flash or the U16 in general?  It appears extremely fussy about which USB port you use.  His MB is a real nice Gigabyte AMD Based X470 gaming 7.  I run the same board but X370 with my T+A dac and have zero such issues.  Man this about drove me crazy.  Beginning to think it is Chinese equipment that has these type of issues.  Another friend's SU-1 also is acting up.  I was a huge supporter of Gustard, in fact I was the first one to get DSD512 playback with the old X20u via a third party USB to I2S card.


----------



## DACLadder (Feb 6, 2019)

@Quadman  Most users report operational issues with the U16.  Myself included.  On reprogramming the U16 firmware I cannot use the USB port on a JCAT PCIe board.  I have to switch to a regular PC USB port for programming purposes.  And then switch back to JCAT for music play which is not perfect by any stretch.  But tolerate the minor issues because it sounds really good.  Hoping a future firmware release fixes playback issues.


----------



## Quadman

@DACLadder so it appears, what was strange was to even get Roon set up to upsample to DSD512 We had to run through the various USB ports again on the back of the PC, some ports the driver looked like it was gone others only PCM upsampling available, then finally one allowed DSD512 Roon only upsampling.  Before the new flash he was able to upsample to DSD512 with HQP using various ports on the PC but Roon would even see the u16.  Issue then was after 20 minutes music would stutter.  With 1.4 LKS no more stuttering but no HQP.  Frustrating.


----------



## music is (Feb 7, 2019)

Hi,

To those lowfi-heads and other interested out there like me whom use only oldschool highres files (max. 24-192) stored at home (no streaming) and connect the DDC with a good spdif coax to their DACs:

The Gustard U16 plays without any problems just fine and 100% reliable.
The 'MUSIC' which comes out of this item after aprx. 200h of playing is incredible good; clean, neutral, transparent, full of details and on the other hand very involving, musically and 'warm'.

For those, whom don't need too much comfort because its all about the music: probably the best result you will get using the new *wtfplay* linuxbased playerOS - I can strictly recommend.

Greetings,
Thomas


----------



## rafabro

music is said:


> whom use only oldschool highres files


What you mean by *old shool* here?


----------



## batfier

rafabro said:


> What you mean by *old shool* here?



as he wrote, all which are using 24/196 files.

the new school ones using 24/192 files...



however would be interesting what firmware it used


----------



## wwmhf

My experience corroborates Thomas' observation. Last week end, I played a few rips made from vinyl records. They are 24-96, 24-192, etc, I did not have any problem to play them in the following set up:

windows 10 + foobar2000/wasapi -> USB to U16 -> I2S to Gustard X20 dac

I remember it correctly, I think foobar2000 with U16's ASIO driver also worked well


----------



## wwmhf

"Old school" = "music on vinyl"?


----------



## JaMo (Feb 7, 2019)

wwmhf said:


> "Old school" = "music on vinyl"?



Na, that's new and modern stuff... phonograph, recordings on waxroles are old school hardcore ; )

/J


----------



## Ludique (Feb 7, 2019)

I think the bnc spdif connection sounds much better than the rca. Even though I have to use rca at the dac end.


----------



## music is

wwmhf said:


> My experience corroborates Thomas' observation. Last week end, I played a few rips made from vinyl records. They are 24-96, 24-192, etc, I did not have any problem to play them in the following set up:
> 
> windows 10 + foobar2000/wasapi -> USB to U16 -> I2S to Gustard X20 dac
> 
> I remember it correctly, I think foobar2000 with U16's ASIO driver also worked well



Hi,


And thank you.

This is what I tried to say: if you have a simple setup with local stored musicfiles up to 24-192 (oldschool hires ) and you'd like to play these with foobar or jriver on windows or any player linux the Gustard U16 as normal as delivered is a best buy and reliable and sounds, as mentionend, especially with an audiophile tuned computer which runs with wtfplay incredibly good.


If you play DSD files streamed from elsewhere with a 'modern' streaming app you'd like to connect your ddc to a ps-style dac it might be better to wait or having a highfrustration tolerance level.


----------



## MINORISUKE

Ludique said:


> I think the bnc spdif connection sounds much better than the rca. Even though I have to use rca at the dac end.


Thank you for this tip.  There is a huge difference between the RCA and the BNC.  The BNC is with much more clarity and wider sound stage.

As this BNC output is configurable either for S/PDIF or Word Clock output, it means it may have something to do with the firmware.
I use the Gustard mode (displayed as GSD) in 1.61, as it must be the default and cannot be worse than any other modes.


----------



## wwmhf

If I remember it correctly, the difference between RCA and BNC has something to do with the impedance. BNC is easier to maintain the 75 ohm impedance than RAC. 

I might be wrong since it was a long time ago when I was interested making cables.


----------



## Ludique

There is the question of correct 75 ohm impedance, slightly higher output voltage and it may also bypass the isolation transformer which the rca output uses.


----------



## kristeva01

wwmhf said:


> If I remember it correctly, the difference between RCA and BNC has something to do with the impedance. BNC is easier to maintain the 75 ohm impedance than RAC.
> 
> I might be wrong since it was a long time ago when I was interested making cables.



That is correct. Its impossible for the RCA architecture to carry the 75 ohm required for BNC, so a BNC cable with RCA phono connections on the end aren't strictly any different to any other RCA cable.


----------



## henkeman

What how does one aquire an bnc cable? No audiophiles ones to get? What bnc cables are you who mentioned it using?


----------



## DACLadder

Are your coax cables and BNC connectors truly 75 ohm versus 50 ohm?  Here's how to visually verify BNC connectors.  50 ohm connectors (and cables) employ more Teflon dielectric material around the center conductor.  75 ohm BNC connectors do not have the added Teflon dielectric material.  Take a look at the diagram below...


----------



## MINORISUKE

Ludique said:


> There is the question of correct 75 ohm impedance, slightly higher output voltage and it may also bypass the isolation transformer which the rca output uses.


In the manual,
COAX 同轴接口： 输出阻抗75 Ohm，输出电平500mV P-P @75 Ohm 负载
多功能BNC 接口：输出阻抗75 Ohm，输出电平750mV P-P @75 Ohm 负载


----------



## Articnoise

wwmhf said:


> If I remember it correctly, the difference between RCA and BNC has something to do with the impedance. BNC is easier to maintain the 75 ohm impedance than RAC.
> 
> I might be wrong since it was a long time ago when I was interested making cables.



You remember it correctly, it’s easier to make a true 75 ohm impedance BNC connector than a RCA.

The question is how big of a deal is it for SQ if the connectors would be 77 Ohm instead of 75 for an S/PDIF signal.


----------



## henkeman

Well the real fking question is where does one buy one good aint interested in the theoretical masturbation.


----------



## JaMo

@henkeman: Search/google for Stereovox

I have a HDXV that does a really good job. It's also possible to make Your own. High quality parts are easy to find

/Jan


----------



## wwmhf (Feb 8, 2019)

henkeman said:


> Well the real fking question is where does one buy one good aint interested in the theoretical masturbation.



I bought a couple of BNC cables from Blue Jeans cable and I am satisfies with them:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/


----------



## Chopin75 (Feb 8, 2019)

henkeman said:


> Well the real fking question is where does one buy one good aint interested in the theoretical masturbation.



Oyaide from Japan makes excellent silver BNC cables. I have one but I am not able to use the actual BNC on one  side where I need to use an adaptor to RCA.


----------



## peteg

Anyone see a silver one for sale.


----------



## henkeman

Thank you all tired of searching google and finding bunch of promoted crap all the time


----------



## henkeman

My u16 has broken I did not get to experience it fully so I continue with my su-1 til reserve is coming but if you tame su1s edges and hardness it is beautiful.


----------



## Seegs108

henkeman said:


> My u16 has broken I did not get to experience it fully so I continue with my su-1 til reserve is coming but if you tame su1s edges and hardness it is beautiful.



My U16 is broken too. It continually power cycles. I've put in an RMA request with Shenzhen Audio but haven't heard back in almost a week. I don't know if it's due to the Chinese New Year or not, but we'll see. Luckily I paid with PayPal so I have some recourse should I receive no response.


----------



## henkeman

My wont power on. I think so they seem legit. If it broke within 30 days they pay for return shipping


----------



## Thenewguy007

henkeman said:


> My wont power on. I think so they seem legit. If it broke within 30 days they pay for return shipping



Any idea on how it broke?

Did it happen when you were using the U16 or did it just not turn on when you tried to turn it on?


----------



## henkeman

I turned it on. It lighted up then just went dark and I couldnt get it on again. Checked the fuse toggled the voltage selector etc


----------



## Whitigir

henkeman said:


> I turned it on. It lighted up then just went dark and I couldnt get it on again. Checked the fuse toggled the voltage selector etc


That is sad to hear, if u happened to be opening up the unit and trace down the problem, please keep us updated


----------



## henkeman

I opened it up and the power switch is ok with connection through the 4-pin connector to transformer. Shenzen instructed to fix the solder joints near said connector (common problem?). It was not a solution for my u16 though.


----------



## Whitigir

Probably a diode is blown somewhere


----------



## Chopin75

henkeman said:


> I opened it up and the power switch is ok with connection through the 4-pin connector to transformer. Shenzen instructed to fix the solder joints near said connector (common problem?). It was not a solution for my u16 though.


Can u mail it back to get fixed? Should be under warranty


----------



## henkeman

Yeah I think this will be sent to shenzen so as to not void any warranty. Not my skill set to fix also.


----------



## Ludique

If you are having powering problems, have you tried switching the voltage to the other setting and then back to your voltage? With the power off and disconnect from the mains of course.


----------



## henkeman

Yes I have toggled the voltage selector. Didnt help though


----------



## henkeman

What haha the u16 got back to life. I dismounted it to trouble-shoot it and take pictures to shenzen then it vainly started working again when I put it together a bit for the photo session. Must have been a loose connection somewhere probably. Happy days


----------



## DACLadder

I looked in the back of my U16 today.  LOL!  I put it back together and it it working better than ever.  I did tighten chassis and power supply GNDs and may sure the cables were connected securely.  My main  issue has always been, after powering up, 44.1kHz files do not play until a higher sampling rate file is first played and then 44.1kHz files worked fine.  After inspection 44.1Khz sampling rates worked initially as well as 88.1 up to 384 Khz. 

This U16 is a funny beast but sounds great when working OK....


----------



## batfier

DACLadder said:


> I looked in the back of my U16 today.  LOL!  I put it back together and it it working better than ever.  I did tighten chassis and power supply GNDs and may sure the cables were connected securely.  My main  issue has always been, after powering up, 44.1kHz files do not play until a higher sampling rate file is first played and then 44.1kHz files worked fine.  After inspection 44.1Khz sampling rates worked initially as well as 88.1 up to 384 Khz.
> 
> This U16 is a funny beast but sounds great when working OK....



in this case waiting for a new firmware don't make any sense, as hardware topics can not solved this way.


----------



## wwmhf

DACLadder said:


> I looked in the back of my U16 today.  LOL!  I put it back together and it it working better than ever.  I did tighten chassis and power supply GNDs and may sure the cables were connected securely.  My main  issue has always been, after powering up, 44.1kHz files do not play until a higher sampling rate file is first played and then 44.1kHz files worked fine.  After inspection 44.1Khz sampling rates worked initially as well as 88.1 up to 384 Khz.
> 
> This U16 is a funny beast but sounds great when working OK....



That was a unusual fixed for such as subtle issue!


----------



## DACLadder (Feb 12, 2019)

wwmhf said:


> That was a unusual fixed for such as subtle issue!



This issue seems to be isolated to my U16.  But could be a thermal issue with my unit.  Find out tomorrow morning after being off during the night.


----------



## DACLadder

batfier said:


> in this case waiting for a new firmware don't make any sense, as hardware topics can not solved this way.



That is worse case and far too early to make that judgement.  But most agree the firmware could be improved a lot!


----------



## DACLadder

Opening up the U16 and inspecting the U16 circuit board found it was well soldered and clean.  For DSD I2S users there is an internal jumper that lets you select which pin on the HDMI connector is used for DSD signalling.  I can't remember what was default.  So if your DAC requires DSD signalling then you may want to check it out.  The jumper (red) is on the U16 circuit board and near the HDMI I2S connector.  You can gain access to the board from the rear by removing four hex screws (H2) on the back and two more on the bottom.  The circuit board will slide out partially from the rear.  Do pull too hard as there is a ribbon cable connected to the faceplate.  

I still had the 44.1kHz noise on first song this morning.  I then let the U16 warm up for one hour and still had noise on 44.1kHz tunes.  If I then play higher sampling rates and go back to 44.1kHz they play fine.  Same whether the PC or Allo Usbridge is driving the USB port.  Has been this way for 3 months since owning the U16.  I feel no firmware fix will correct this issue with my unit.


----------



## PLGA

Hello guys
Ive just received my U16 and (with factory firmware) Ive made it work fine with Audinirvana plus on Windows 10, upsampling PCM x2, streaming Tidal and going through my W4S USB Reclocker and then into my Audio-gd R8 DAC.
If I play PCM on its original sample rate, or higher than x2, it doesnt work well. 
MQA upsampled x2 does not work well. I will have to change the sample rate to see, but I dont care much as I dont listen much to MQA. 
As for the sound, eventhough the U16 only has a couple of hours running, I can asure it sounds better than my W4S USB Reclocker going alone to the Amanero board. I would say most of all it sounds cleaner and more detailed. We will see where we will end, but Im very excited!! 
Thank you all for the advices, specially Scott!!


----------



## motberg

PLGA said:


> Hello guys
> Ive just received my U16 and (with factory firmware) Ive made it work fine with Audinirvana plus on Windows 10, upsampling PCM x2, streaming Tidal and going through my W4S USB Reclocker and then into my Audio-gd R8 DAC.
> If I play PCM on its original sample rate, or higher than x2, it doesnt work well.
> MQA upsampled x2 does not work well. I will have to change the sample rate to see, but I dont care much as I dont listen much to MQA.
> ...



I am pretty sure the sound will improve even more after a couple hundred hours..
Can Audinirvana plus on Windows 10 upsample to a set fixed PCM rate, like 384KHz ?
(My R1 really sounds good with a 384 input using the R1 NOS3 setting... best upsampling result I have ever had personally)
If you get time, please let us know which sample rates are successfully working with your U16/R8..
TIA !
PS: just a reminder to set that button on the front panel to indicate PSA..  I assume you are using i2s input..


----------



## PLGA

motberg said:


> I am pretty sure the sound will improve even more after a couple hundred hours..
> Can Audinirvana plus on Windows 10 upsample to a set fixed PCM rate, like 384KHz ?
> (My R1 really sounds good with a 384 input using the R1 NOS3 setting... best upsampling result I have ever had personally)
> If you get time, please let us know which sample rates are successfully working with your U16/R8..
> ...



The sample rate that works flawlessly with my R8 is 88.2 kHz.
Ive tried some others, but they make poping noises mixed in the audio signal or are all noise, not sound at all. 
I have some lists on Tidal with MQA songs mixed with hifi ones (44.1 kHz) and, with Audinirvana set to upsampling x2, the MQA songs are pure noise and the hifi songs sound perfect.
Im also using NOS3 on my DAC, my favorite.


----------



## PLGA (Feb 13, 2019)

I forgot to mention that I havent tried all sampling rates and other set up options included in Audinirvana (there are many), but the one I found today works fine and sounds superb.
And yes, Im using the I2S connection with a 0.5 m long chinese HDMI cable, 2.1 specs.


----------



## PLGA




----------



## Quadman

New U16's recently purchased most likely have firmware 1.61 96K installed and that have proven to be buggy.  I flashed a friends back to 1.4 and his music is now stable during playback at DSD512.  Flashing was a pain, and it should have been easy, but PC would not see the u16 and we tried numerous USB ports on back of the PC until finally they saw each other then we completed the flash.  1.4 is the better firmware.


----------



## PLGA

Quadman said:


> New U16's recently purchased most likely have firmware 1.61 96K installed and that have proven to be buggy.  I flashed a friends back to 1.4 and his music is now stable during playback at DSD512.  Flashing was a pain, and it should have been easy, but PC would not see the u16 and we tried numerous USB ports on back of the PC until finally they saw each other then we completed the flash.  1.4 is the better firmware.



Hello Quadman,
I have no idea wich firmware my U16 brought from factory, but, as I said, it works flawlessly streaming Tidal with Audinirvana Plus with Windows 10 at a rate of 88.2 Khz. 
Did you find any difference in sound quality between the firmwares? I mean, working both flawlessly of course.


----------



## Quadman

If you just received it recently then most likely 1.61 96K.  I helped someone whom I built a server for through team viewer so I have not actually heard the U16.  But 1.61 FW would play DSD512 for 20 mins and then stop, He had to reboot PC to get back then 20 mins later repeat.  With 1.4 LKS FW (he has LKS dac) and DSD512 no more issues and he reports the sound is wonderful.  He also liked the 1.61 sound but issues made us switch.  If you are happy with what you are getting then all is good.

On shenzhen download page there is firmware and instructions.  In that package you'll find a DFU app which can read what firmware version you have and will also allow you to flash a different version.  should you desire.


----------



## JaMo

@PLGA: -Take a look at page 32, post 471. If You use HDMI and IIS-out the "GU16V1_4_PSA_0db_PS_Audio_I2S.rom" is the way to go. I have a flawless performance on all played and tested formats. (flac: 16/44, 24-44, 24-48.24-88.2, 24-96, 24-176.4, 24-192, 24-352.8, 24-384 also 32-bit works)
Wav: up to 32-192. 
DSD:  DFF and DSF = DSD64, DSD128

/Jan


----------



## motberg

JaMo said:


> @PLGA: -Take a look at page 32, post 471. If You use HDMI and IIS-out the "GU16V1_4_PSA_0db_PS_Audio_I2S.rom" is the way to go. I have a flawless performance on all played and tested formats. (flac: 16/44, 24-44, 24-48.24-88.2, 24-96, 24-176.4, 24-192, 24-352.8, 24-384 also 32-bit works)
> Wav: up to 32-192.
> DSD:  DFF and DSF = DSD64, DSD128
> 
> /Jan



Although I guess it is good to try the older firmware (I also had that problem with the firmware not installing through various USB ports) I think you have the R2R7 (first version of R7?) and from memory those units are working fine with the PSA 1.4 firmware... but seems the R8 and R1 have the problem with only some sample rates playing OK, regardless of firmware revision.

(U16 with the NOS7 DAC is magic BTW....)


----------



## JaMo (Feb 15, 2019)

motberg said:


> Although I guess it is good to try the older firmware (I also had that problem with the firmware not installing through various USB ports) I think you have the R2R7 (first version of R7?) and from memory those units are working fine with the PSA 1.4 firmware... but seems the R8 and R1 have the problem with only some sample rates playing OK, regardless of firmware revision.
> 
> (U16 with the NOS7 DAC is magic BTW....)



Oh, sorry. I guess I haven't been reading careful enough about the specific R1-R8-problems with the U16. And yes, You are right.. I have the R2R-7. A bit OT but.. By the way.. I also feed a NFB-27.77 with a u16 on 1.4 PSA IIS-fw. Also this setup works flawlessly. Both chains sounds "high end" ..better than ever. The U16's pushed their performances a clear step forward. No doubt. One of the better investments so far.

I believe You about the "magic"..

/J


----------



## motberg

I think there is cause for hope the PSA 1.4 firmware may work better with the R8.. 
it seems the U16 works OK with the R8 sometimes within the 44.1 KHz family, and the U16 works OK with the R1 sometimes within the 48 KHz family, so there is a difference between the 2 DACs
It has been noted in other threads that the R8 is more like a lighter version of the R7 (which works generally OK with the U16) - rather than an upscale version of the R1
If I am reading correctly above, folks have been able to successfully flash the U16 to previous firmware versions - but my experience and some of those above, indicate to carefully read the instructions, take your time, and be ready to try different USB ports during the flashing process...


----------



## JaMo (Feb 15, 2019)

Yes,
the flashing is always a risk. A good precaution is to get a small UPS to power both the computer and the U16 during the flashing. When I got my U16's they both had version 1.61. It was a clear beta-behavior and I was lucky to catch my eyes on on the tables on page 32 (post 471). I don't like the idea of accepting a beta behavior and to be forced to use workarounds to keep it running. Well the 1.4 PSA IIS-fw seems to be stable for both my dac's (with different architctures (R-ladder and DS), this also for longers times. I run them 24/7.

If You can gather the guts to flash, It's important to choose a native USB2.0 port on the computer. Yes! Read carefully the instructions.

/Jan


----------



## JayNYC

Hi all - can the U16 work with (be fed from) an Apple Lightning-to-USB adapter via iPad ?


----------



## MINORISUKE

Can anybody check the playback of 352.8kHz (DXD) from BNC (S/PDIF)?

I have no problem with RCA output, but BNC plays left channel only.
You need a DAC with S/PDIF input that accepts higher than 192kHz, which is not common yet.


----------



## PLGA

JaMo said:


> Yes,
> the flashing is always a risk. A good precaution is to get a small UPS to power both the computer and the U16 during the flashing. When I got my U16's they both had version 1.61. It was a clear beta-behavior and I was lucky to catch my eyes on on the tables on page 32 (post 471). I don't like the idea of accepting a beta behavior and to be forced to use workarounds to keep it running. Well the 1.4 PSA IIS-fw seems to be stable for both my dac's (with different architctures (R-ladder and DS), this also for longers times. I run them 24/7.
> 
> If You can gather the guts to flash, It's important to choose a native USB2.0 port on the computer. Yes! Read carefully the instructions.
> ...



Hello Jan,
Im sorry for my ignorance on the field, but what exactly do you mean by "gathering the guts to flash"? What exactly does mean "flashing"? Installing and running the tool manager software provided by Gustard? 
I'm thinking about changing the firmware to 1.4 PSA version, mostly to see if it sounds better, because toady my U16 works well with the current firmware and the sampling rate I configured, but I'm not sure if it will be too much trouble or a risk somehow. I would appreciate if you could give me some advise. What am I risking? Is it too complicated to install the firmware? Is it worth it? 
Thank you!

Pedro


----------



## JaMo (Feb 15, 2019)

PLGA said:


> Hello Jan,
> Im sorry for my ignorance on the field, but what exactly do you mean by "gathering the guts to flash"? What exactly does mean "flashing"? Installing and running the tool manager software provided by Gustard?
> I'm thinking about changing the firmware to 1.4 PSA version, mostly to see if it sounds better, because toady my U16 works well with the current firmware and the sampling rate I configured, but I'm not sure if it will be too much trouble or a risk somehow. I would appreciate if you could give me some advise. What am I risking? Is it too complicated to install the firmware? Is it worth it?
> Thank you!
> ...



Hi Pedro,
It is not more risky to do this than other fw-upgrades. This upgrade procedure is usually called "flashing".

The risk I mentioned is the fact that when You perform the upgrade (the fw-code is uploading to the device and the programming of the EEPROM in the U16 is ongoing) A power failure of the powergrid during the middle of the upgrading process can ruin the gear (in this case the U16). You can "brick" the device if You are really unlucky. That's why I suggested the small UPS to ensure a secured power source during the process. I think everybody should have one at least for this purpose.

It is definately worth to perform the upgrade. If You feel You can trust the power delivery to Your house. Go for it. Othervise get a small UPS.

The upgrade itself is quite strait on and takes just a few seconds. Very undramatic. Good luck.


/Jan


----------



## PLGA

JaMo said:


> Hi Pedro,
> It is not more risky to do this than other fw-upgrades
> 
> The risk I mentioned is the fact that when You perform the upgrade (the fw-code is uploading to the device and the programming of the EEPROM in the U16 is ongoing) A power failure of the powergrid during the middle of the upgrading process can ruin the gear (in this case the U16). You can "brick" the device if You are really unlucky. That's why I suggested the small UPS to ensure a secured power source during the process. I think everybody should have one at least for this purpose.
> ...



Thank you very much!


----------



## henkeman (Feb 15, 2019)

Well if you have an poor UPS that can ruin it to without power failure.

How many times have you experienced an power failure during flashing, or heard of anyone experied one during flashing? Please I need references to evaluate the risks on real grounds.

In this apartment we had a power failure 2 times last year. The risk is if happens precisely during flashing...


To calculate safely say we have power failure 10 times a year and flashing takes 1 minute to complete(I really think  it takes like 20 seconds)
1minute out of one year is 365 * 24 * 60  = 1 / 525600 (edit 10/525600) 

So you have to flash it roughly 525600 (edit 52560) times in one year to be somewhat sure to have an power failure during flashing and brick it...

That said if you have power failures every day or so an UPS is good


----------



## henkeman (Feb 15, 2019)

That calculation just aint right been drinking some beer. But I hope the point is understood Cheers

Edit: changed it think it is right now


----------



## JaMo (Feb 15, 2019)

henkeman said:


> Well if you have an poor UPS that can ruin it to without power failure.
> 
> How many times have you experienced an power failure during flashing, or heard of anyone experied one during flashing? Please I need references to evaluate the risks on real grounds.
> 
> ...



Hi,
I guess You are addressing me. The quality of the power delivery differs alot in the world. In Sweden where I live we usually have a high quality of the power. But storms now and then disturbs. Not often but they do.
I also usually take rather high risks but in the case of the U16 I think it is so good that it should be a real pity to kill such a well perfoming device. But Yes 300 USD  is not the world...

It is my recommendation  to use UPS. And yes I remember 3 clear occations where the UPS propably saved the gears. I started to use UPS after the killing of a rather expensive DVR years back...But that machine got its life back through a serial connected soldered to the chips pins on the circuitboard and was programmed forcefeeded. I don't recommend anybody to do that today.

Everybody do what they think is right. I just wanted to give a heads up for the actual risk involved. But..It's Your choise how to proceed, of course.

/Jan


----------



## Ludique (Feb 15, 2019)

I have a 10 year old MacBook Pro with Windows 7 installed. The actual flashing of firmware takes 1 second with it.

Last time I had power failure was possibly12 years ago. The cheapest usp seems to cost 80 euros. I would never order anything direct from China if odds were so terribly against me.

I don't use the Mac to play music, I use Auralic Aries. Only 96 and dsd256 are playable with i2s. I'm a bit pessimistic Gustard will ever fix the firmware to suit Linux, especially if they had problems with the previous model U12, as someone mentioned.

U16 has grounded all outputs and inputs to earth, even the rca is grounded. That causes problems (dropouts) with ISO Regen, which can be solved with a bit of wire though.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Ludique said:


> I have a 10 year old MacBook Pro with Windows 7 installed. The actual flashing of firmware takes 1 second with it.
> 
> Last time I had power failure was possibly12 years ago. The cheapest usp seems to cost 80 euros. I would never order anything direct from China if odds were so terribly against me.
> 
> ...



Do you feel there is an improvement with the ISO Regen on the U16?


----------



## Ludique (Feb 15, 2019)

I would say there is a difference and I prefer to use the IR. But... somehow the highs seem more relaxed without it. The uspcb I use with the IR has seen better days, I've been fixing it with small pieces of wire. That may be a culprit. Btw, if someone gets the IR, you need the 90 degree uspcb, otherwise it won't fit.


----------



## rafabro

I am testing U16 with ifi iDefender and I'm impressed how tight is the bass. Quick, immediate.


----------



## henkeman (Feb 15, 2019)

To many beers


----------



## henkeman

To use positive thinking I have two iso regens running serial (connected with the old usb a to b adapter (uspcb iI do not prefer)) with u16 on two lps-1 feeded by 12v linear hdplex 200w psu. I cant break down the music in different spectras (which bothers me beacuase its a habit doing so) because its flowing and is so organical so the brain cant accept it as nothing but  a whole.


----------



## PLGA

Hello guys
Ive just installed the 1.4 PSA firmware and I have the same results as with the 1.61 one. 
The only sample rate that works flawlessly is 88.2 kHz in my R8 DAC. 
On the other hand, the U16 has been running for about 20 hours and the sound now is superb, very very nice. It has the same good things as before, but better in every field. It is starting to show its potential. 
Considering I listen to all my music streaming Tidal at 44.1 sample rate, upsampling x2 gives me paradise! Un upgrade totally worthwile !!


----------



## motberg

I think the basic idea is to make sure nothing interrupts the flashing process.. so probably not a great idea to have kids running around, for example, that may accidentally disconnect the USB cable or in some other manner cut the power to the U16 or computer...


----------



## DACLadder

@PLGA  On the R8 try adjusting the front panel Syn = 1.  This mode setting is specifically for the I2S input and may help with noise and dropouts.

Here’s a link to the R8 user manual: http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R8/R8EN_Use.htm


----------



## motberg

PLGA said:


> Hello guys
> Ive just installed the 1.4 PSA firmware and I have the same results as with the 1.61 one.
> The only sample rate that works flawlessly is 88.2 kHz in my R8 DAC.
> On the other hand, the U16 has been running for about 20 hours and the sound now is superb, very very nice. It has the same good things as before, but better in every field. It is starting to show its potential.
> Considering I listen to all my music streaming Tidal at 44.1 sample rate, upsampling x2 gives me paradise! Un upgrade totally worthwile !!



That is an interesting use case... streaming at 44.1, upsampling x 2 keeps you within the same frequency family.. well done!
Thanks for the report... 
I have a fairly good dual PC system, with a LPS1>1.5A LT3045 regulator box>JCAT USB card. Yesterday I inserted an Intona Industrial USB isolator between the JCAT card and the U16. 
There was surprisingly a definite improvement in a reduction of high frequency hash that was previously present for some tracks.


----------



## Articnoise (Feb 16, 2019)

I have had my Gustard U16 for 3 weeks now and must say that it has a very nice sound when using the S/PDIF out to my DAC. In some ways it’s even better than the much more expansive Off-ramp 5 with separate LPS and all. Great sound and good value.


----------



## henkeman (Feb 19, 2019)

Hello I wonder if anyone can measure connection between the conducting pins at the iec power inlet of the u16. I can measure 125 ohm when set to 220V and 32ohm when voltage selector is at 110V. Is that normal?





Ofcourse this is when power switch is set to ON "1"


----------



## Ludique

Talking about power inlet... my 220V rated U16 has a 1.3A fuse, which seems very high for a device like this. What amperage fuse do you who live in 120V countries have?

Trying to check whether they just pack same fuse with all devices.


----------



## MarkR7

My 120v U16 has a 500ma slo-blo fuse.


----------



## DACLadder (Feb 19, 2019)

@henkeman  I measure the same 33 ohm, 110v and 125 ohm, 220v.

My 110v U16 includes a spare fuse and they are both 1500mA/250v fast blow.   500mA slow blow sounds about right though at 110v.  I have some audiophile fuses somewhere so now is good time to try another.

Any fuse size is better than nothing at all.


----------



## Ludique (Feb 20, 2019)

MarkR7 said:


> My 120v U16 has a 500ma slo-blo fuse.



Sorry, I don't know where I got the 1.3A, mine is T500mA as well. Should be probably T300mA in Europe.


----------



## henkeman

@DACLadder
Thanks, guess its ok

My 220V fuse is 1500mA


----------



## DACLadder

@Ludique  Yes, you are correct... Upon reinspection my fuse is T500mA.  "T" is for time delay or commonly referred to slo-blo in the U.S.


----------



## BrainFood (Feb 20, 2019)

------------sorry, posted in error..


----------



## allhifi

FredA said:


> Just wondering, any hdmi cable suggestion for 100$? Dhlabs, wireworld, audioquest, ?.



Hi Fred: a few pages back, I spoke of great success with AQ 'Chocolate HDMi (i2S/U-12 to X20PRO)  is amazing; clearly, waaay better than Pearl, Forest much better than Pearl, Cinnamon better still, but Chocolate -OMG ! 

Interestingly, the Chocolate sounded so much better than the triple price AQ 'Vodka' HDMi (borrowed from my brother -one year old cable- , ran it/broke-it in further 50-hours straight, and still crappy sounding). What a disappointment.

Anyway, AQ Chocolate (1.0m) HDMi is amazing/highly recommended. Oh, $100 US$/1.0m.

pj


----------



## allhifi

rafabro said:


> I was comparing Wireworld, Audioquest and few other in similar price range and I stayed with AQ Carbon. Most natural and detailed sound.



Raf: Try AQ 'Chocolate' -incredible.

pj


----------



## allhifi

darren700 said:


> After reading through this thread yesterday I decided to purchase a U16 to use with my Audio-GD R2R7 since it seems several of you have had such good success with the combo.
> 
> Based on what is stated here it sounds like the U16 I2S HDMI works with the Audio-GD R2R7 well?
> Did i understand correctly and the pinout is correct for Audio-GD I2S HDMI as long as I flash to newest V1.4 PSA Firmware?
> ...



Darren: Try/buy AQ 'Chocolate HDMi (I'm using between U-12/X20-PRO); sounds fantastic.

pj


----------



## rafabro

allhifi said:


> Raf: Try AQ 'Chocolate' -incredible.
> 
> pj


Friend of mine owns Coffe and I tested few times. It's better than my Carbon. Specially deeper black background is impressive. But money difference not necessary worth it.


----------



## Sage Encore

Hi Guys,
Welcome me to the U16 boat. This guy is a killer of a machine man. Blows the SU 1 right out of the water. As expressed above, I am also using AQ Chocolate, a very nice combo indeed. I was initially put off by all the FW issues, but borrowed my friend's unit to test it out on my system. Its been stable thus far although its running Ver 1.4. I am getting a new one and as such it's got Ver1.6 I think. I will probably reflash it to run Ver1.4. 

Happy listening guys. Great weekend to all.


----------



## FredA (Feb 22, 2019)

The u16 is certainly a great sounding unit, you will not regret it.

Getting an audiohile fuse is great idea. Will get one off ebay right away.


----------



## domho7

After going thru 46 pages in this tread. Makes me want to order 1 and try out


----------



## wwmhf

domho7 said:


> After going thru 46 pages in this tread. Makes me want to order 1 and try out



Yes, you should.


----------



## PLGA

domho7 said:


> After going thru 46 pages in this tread. Makes me want to order 1 and try out



Im sure you wont regret it.
I still cannot believe the improvement in sound that it made to my system and I already had USB signal treatment (Wyred4Sound RUR with LPS) before my Audio-GD R8 DAC. I really don't understand what it does, but it works great. You only will have to give it at least 30 hours of use for break in.
If you plan to use it with I2S connection, like me, I advice you to get a short (0.5m long) 2.1 protocol HDMI cable.
If you buy it, please let us know your impressions.
Good luck!


----------



## domho7

Tks for the encouragement.
Presently dac is topping D50. Dap A&K SR15
Aroma audio A100 + ps 100 as amp.
Problem here is my dap can only hv handshake compatibility with xmos base dac. Hv tried those without xmos just can't connect.


----------



## darren700

allhifi said:


> Darren: Try/buy AQ 'Chocolate HDMi (I'm using between U-12/X20-PRO); sounds fantastic.
> 
> pj



Thanks for the suggestion, I actually have a Audioqust 0.5m Chocolate on my U16 --> R1 headphone setup.
I use the Ebay HDMI 2.1 that FredA suggested in my main setup with U16 --> R2R7

However after your recommendation i just switched them so the Chocolate is im my main setup, Im interested to see if I can tell a difference between the two.


----------



## wwmhf

darren700 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, I actually have a Audioqust 0.5m Chocolate on my U16 --> R1 headphone setup.
> I use the Ebay HDMI 2.1 that FredA suggested in my main setup with U16 --> R2R7
> 
> However after your recommendation i just switched them so the Chocolate is im my main setup, Im interested to see if I can tell a difference between the two.



Please let us know your findings.


----------



## PLGA

wwmhf said:


> Please let us know your findings.



Yes, Im also intrigued about the differences between them. I have the ebay 2.1 protocol chinese HDMI cable (0.5 m long) and eventhough it sounds terrific, Im intrigued how it performs against a more expensive one.


----------



## darren700 (Feb 22, 2019)

FredA said:


> The u16 is certainly a great souning unit, you will niot regret it.
> 
> Getting an audiohile fuse is great idea. Will get one off ebay right away.



Hmm I like this Idea also, please let us know what fuse you end up purchasing.



wwmhf said:


> Please let us know your findings.



Will do, but I sometimes have issues discerning the differences between cables.
Sounds pretty good so far, It seems maybe more micro details with the Audioquest Chocolate. Bass seems fuller, however treble seems a touch brighter, but too early to tell for sure right now need to do more listening.


----------



## FredA

darren700 said:


> Hmm I like this Idea also, please let us know what fuse you end up purchasing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Simply got this cheap one, i hate the idea of spending more than 30$ for a fuse:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1x-hifi-Sil...var=431600648423&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


I got a couple more to use in the pair of lps i feed my usbridge with. Should make a small difference.


----------



## darren700

FredA said:


> Simply got this cheap one, i hate the idea of spending more than 30$ for a fuse:
> 
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1x-hifi-Silver-Fuse-5x20mm-1A-2A-3-15A-4A-5A-6x32mm-5A-Slow-blow/132271963169?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=431600648423&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...



Thanks, I bought some to try


----------



## darren700

So ive been trying to compare the Audioquest Chocolate with the Ebay HDMI 2.1 for about an hour now.
I have swapped back and forth between the cables about 4 times, unfortunately this takes like 4-5 minutes to change as I have to shutdown the U16, R2R-7 and my Streamer (SOTM SMS-200 Ultra Neo) then wait for the streamer to reboot after reconnecting.

Note: both cables are well broken in.

Anyways, initially i thought i heard some differences with the Chocolate, but now after swapping back and forth several times I really dont think there is a very big difference between the two. 

The Audioquest Chocolate Seems a tad harsher to my ears so I think i will stick to the Ebay HDMI 2.1 in my main system for now (note: I have ribbon tweeters in my speakers that are very unforgiving sometimes) 

Take these impressions with a grain of salt, as Stated before, i have a hard time telling the difference between cables to begin with, even though I have thousands invested in them for my main setup lol (Audio Sensibility Statement OCC Copper Interconnects and power cables everywhere, Statement Silver USB, etc.)


----------



## FredA

darren700 said:


> So ive been trying to compare the Audioquest Chocolate with the Ebay HDMI 2.1 for about an hour now.
> I have swapped back and forth between the cables about 4 times, unfortunately this takes like 4-5 minutes to change as I have to shutdown the U16, R2R-7 and my Streamer (SOTM SMS-200 Ultra Neo) then wait for the streamer to reboot after reconnecting.
> 
> Note: both cables are well broken in.
> ...


Thanks  for the info. The 2.1 is at a high level of performance i find, with confidence inspiring build quality. I am not surprised.


----------



## domho7

PLGA said:


> Im sure you wont regret it.
> I still cannot believe the improvement in sound that it made to my system and I already had USB signal treatment (Wyred4Sound RUR with LPS) before my Audio-GD R8 DAC. I really don't understand what it does, but it works great. You only will have to give it at least 30 hours of use for break in.
> If you plan to use it with I2S connection, like me, I advice you to get a short (0.5m long) 2.1 protocol HDMI cable.
> If you buy it, please let us know your impressions.
> Good luck!


I am getting a new set to test if its gd I will buy it.


----------



## Sage Encore

FredA said:


> Simply got this cheap one, i hate the idea of spending more than 30$ for a fuse:
> 
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1x-hifi-Silver-Fuse-5x20mm-1A-2A-3-15A-4A-5A-6x32mm-5A-Slow-blow/132271963169?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=431600648423&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...




Hi Fred,
I was a skeptic like you when it came to fuses. i bought 2 pcs of SR20 fuses just for the heck of trying them. Now everything that runsa fuse in my system is either with SR20 or SR Red fuse, that's how much a fuse can open up a system. Give it a shot, u will not regret I am pretty sure.


----------



## FredA (Feb 22, 2019)

Sage Encore said:


> Hi Fred,
> I was a skeptic like you when it came to fuses. i bought 2 pcs of SR20 fuses just for the heck of trying them. Now everything that runsa fuse in my system is either with SR20 or SR Red fuse, that's how much a fuse can open up a system. Give it a shot, u will not regret I am pretty sure.


I am no skeptic actually. Just cheap. I bought sr-20s and hifi supremes as well. But i get most of the benefits with cheaper chinese offerings.


----------



## Sage Encore

FredA said:


> I am no skeptic actually. Just cheap. I bought sr-20s and hifi supremes as well. But i get most of the benefits with cheaper chinese offerings.


LOL, that was brutally honest my friend. Have a good one.


----------



## FredA

Sage Encore said:


> LOL, that was brutally honest my friend. Have a good one.


Seriously, i optimize the money i spend. Spending 80$ on a fuse is not optimal. You should look for better dc cables for that kind of money. Those 80$ fuses cost less than 5$ to make. I don’t want to give my money to such companies. I have no problem with spending 5k on a set of speakers or 2.5k on a dac if the price is justfied. 80$ for a fuse? No thanks.


----------



## Sage Encore

FredA said:


> Seriously, i optimize the money i spend. Spending 80$ on a fuse is not optimal. You should look for better dc cables for that kind of money. Those 80$ fuses cost less than 5$ to make. I don’t want to give my money to such companies. I have no problem with spending 5k on a set of speakers or 2.5k on a dac if the price is justfied. 80$ for a fuse? No thanks.



Hi Fred,
Everything in life is about gaining experience, you become wiser due to experiences, and in order to gain experience sometimes costs are involved. That's how I see it my friend. Anyway as always, YMMW right? Happy listening.


----------



## Ludique (Feb 23, 2019)

Padis is always a good lower priced ($25) fuse and highly recommended for almost anything. I will get one for the U16.


----------



## rafabro

darren700 said:


> Hmm I like this Idea also, please let us know what fuse you end up purchasing.



I tried with Furutech and then SR Red. Both were bit to bright to me. Now I have HiFi Tuning Supreme and is great. Sounds more analogue then other two.
Another potentially good choice could be SR Black


----------



## Articnoise

rafabro said:


> Friend of mine owns Coffe and I tested few times. It's better than my Carbon. Specially deeper black background is impressive. But money difference not necessary worth it.



Yes AQ Coffee is my favourite HDMI cable too, clearly better sounded than both Carbon and Chocolate.


----------



## domho7

Just gotten this new toy. Omg.......
Looks like I have to keep it.
But I noticed some dsd track the 1st song sometimes goes garbage but when I restart it goes OK. I do not have large dsd files. As for the rest of the tracks its simply wonderful.


----------



## Sage Encore

rafabro said:


> I tried with Furutech and then SR Red. Both were bit to bright to me. Now I have HiFi Tuning Supreme and is great. Sounds more analogue then other two.
> Another potentially good choice could be SR Black


I just ordered Furutech, guess should have checked here first. Its ok, let see how it sounds.


----------



## rafabro

domho7 said:


> But I noticed some dsd track the 1st song sometimes goes garbage but when I restart it goes OK. I do not have large dsd files. As for the rest of the tracks its simply wonderful.


Try increase buffer size in your player - it you have those options.


----------



## PitBul34

Gustard U16 & Androidphone. Bitperfect output via Hiby Music Player 3.2. Sounds pretty good!


----------



## Thenewguy007

rafabro said:


> I tried with Furutech and then SR Red. Both were bit to bright to me. Now I have HiFi Tuning Supreme and is great. Sounds more analogue then other two.
> Another potentially good choice could be SR Black



A lot of the manufacturers do say to break in the fuses for at least a few hundred hours to get them to sound good.


----------



## FredA

Thenewguy007 said:


> A lot of the manufacturers do say to break in the fuses for at least a few hundred hours to get them to sound good.


I would tend to agree, the first 40-80 hours can be misleading.


----------



## rafabro

Thenewguy007 said:


> A lot of the manufacturers do say to break in the fuses for at least a few hundred hours to get them to sound good.


Those I tried wasn't new of the shelf. I had them in drover, previously used with my gear. Even that I keep them in U16 minimum week of time (Furutech) and month (SR RED).
Hifi Tuning Supreme is now 2 months.


----------



## Monolithic

rafabro said:


> Those I tried wasn't new of the shelf. I had them in drover, previously used with my gear. Even that I keep them in U16 minimum week of time (Furutech) and month (SR RED).
> Hifi Tuning Supreme is now 2 months.



Did you find the Hifi Tuning Supreme fuse to be directional?


----------



## neogeosnk (Feb 25, 2019)

Two questions;

Can you output to I2s port and aes at the same time?  I want to output to the yggy and matrix and switch back and forth between dacs.
Is there a detailed english manual or what is posted the only thing out there?


----------



## rafabro

Monolithic said:


> Did you find the Hifi Tuning Supreme fuse to be directional?


From my experience, every conductor is.


----------



## Ludique

rafabro said:


> From my experience, every conductor is.



As strange as it is, even the stock fuse can sound different when it's direction is reversed. I suggest you all try it.


----------



## rafabro

Correct. Hopefully some day scientist discover why we here difference.


----------



## batfier (Feb 25, 2019)

neogeosnk said:


> Two questions;
> 
> Can you output to I2s port and aes at the same time?  I want to output to the yggy and matrix and switch back and forth between dacs.
> Is there a detailed english manual or what is posted the only thing out there?



yes, its possible, with the right firmware. currently all firmwares are buggy.

 I'm using all outputs in parallel, each in a different dac.

not sure what i2s pin out the yggy has.

I'm using i2s into AGD R7. with 1.4 psa firmware i2s is working nicely, but all other outputs are distorted. with gustard firmware all output are working,  but i2s L+R channels are swapped. with 1.4 holo all output are working and i2s channels are correct too. but with all firmwares some sample rates are distorted.

didn't found a comprehensive manual so far, but its not that complicated to use it either. there are only too buttons on the front. both can have a second function while holding the button for a few seconds. these functions depending on the firmware used.


----------



## neogeosnk

batfier said:


> yes, its possible, with the right firmware. currently all firmwares are buggy.
> 
> I'm using all outputs in parallel, each in a different dac.
> 
> ...


This sounds like a nightmare.


----------



## Thenewguy007 (Feb 25, 2019)

Ludique said:


> As strange as it is, even the stock fuse can sound different when it's direction is reversed. I suggest you all try it.



Usually there is a right way & a wrong way to place the fuse.

I had switched the direction of a fuse on some equipment that was well broken in & the sound I got was absolutely awful.

On some other stuff & a few other fuses, I couldn't tell any difference.

I think the direction of the fuse takes into account how long current has been going through it.


----------



## FredA

Thenewguy007 said:


> Usually there is a right way & a wrong way to place the fuse.
> 
> I had switched the direction of a fuse on some equipment that was well broken in & the sound I got was absolutely awful.
> 
> ...


Current goes both way equally. Why direction makes a difference is indeed a mystery but it does.


----------



## Sage Encore

rafabro said:


> From my experience, every conductor is.


The SR 20 sure were. Quite a noticeable difference IMO.


----------



## domho7

Sage Encore said:


> The SR 20 sure were. Quite a noticeable difference IMO.


Hi which ratings suit the u16 

100mA, 160mA, 200mA, 250mA, 315mA, 500mA, 630mA, 800mA
1A, 1.6A, 2A, 2.5A, 3.15A, 4A, 5A, 6.3A, 8A, 10A, 12.5A, 16A


----------



## domho7

I have a new loan unit now  Noticed dsd files the 1st song turns out garbage but when I goes back it sounded OK. Or press forward to next song and its sound perfectly gd  Only happens to dsd files. 
I am liking it v much using this interface.


----------



## Sage Encore

domho7 said:


> Hi which ratings suit the u16
> 
> 100mA, 160mA, 200mA, 250mA, 315mA, 500mA, 630mA, 800mA
> 1A, 1.6A, 2A, 2.5A, 3.15A, 4A, 5A, 6.3A, 8A, 10A, 12.5A, 16A


It's 500mA rated, so I ordered the same rating.


----------



## Sage Encore

domho7 said:


> I have a new loan unit now  Noticed dsd files the 1st song turns out garbage but when I goes back it sounded OK. Or press forward to next song and its sound perfectly gd  Only happens to dsd files.
> I am liking it v much using this interface.


Yes, I have the same issue, u cannot play DSD as the first song. After playing a FLAC file it's ok, playing DSD is not a problem, but I only have DSD 64 files, nothing higher.


----------



## domho7

Sage Encore said:


> Yes, I have the same issue, u cannot play DSD as the first song. After playing a FLAC file it's ok, playing DSD is not a problem, but I only have DSD 64 files, nothing higher.


Ah tks at least I know not a big issue I just forward to next song. This usb interface surprises me with the sq. 
Tks I thibk I will order sr20 fuse to try it out


----------



## domho7

Sage Encore said:


> It's 500mA rated, so I ordered the same rating.


I noticed at synergistic research Web it has black and blue fuse. There is slo-blow 5mmx20mm & also 6.3mmx32mm. Also there is fast-blow. Sorry am a noob in fuses.


----------



## DACLadder

domho7 said:


> I noticed at synergistic research Web it has black and blue fuse. There is slo-blow 5mmx20mm & also 6.3mmx32mm. Also there is fast-blow. Sorry am a noob in fuses.



To match the U16's fuse you need the smaller 5x20mm size, Slow Blow/ Time Delay or 'T' variety, and 500mA current capacity.  Choose wisely as fuses are usually not returnable.


----------



## domho7

DACLadder said:


> To match the U16's fuse you need the smaller 5x20mm size, Slow Blow/ Time Delay or 'T' variety, and 500mA current capacity.  Choose wisely as fuses are usually not returnable.


Tks for the tip dacladder.


----------



## MarkR7

DACLadder said:


> To match the U16's fuse you need the smaller 5x20mm size, Slow Blow/ Time Delay or 'T' variety, and 500mA current capacity.  Choose wisely as fuses are usually not returnable.



If I may offer a suggestion, at least referring to SR fuses.... upsize one rating. In this case, I bought a 630ma SR Blue fuse. In the past on other gear, I found that SR fuses (blacks and blues) have blown too easily upon startup surges, but I haven’t had any such issues when I went with one rating higher.... it’s the same recommendation that Alfred from highend-electronics.com gives.


----------



## Ludique (Feb 26, 2019)

MarkR7 said:


> If I may offer a suggestion, at least referring to SR fuses.... upsize one rating. In this case, I bought a 630ma SR Blue fuse. In the past on other gear, I found that SR fuses (blacks and blues) have blown too easily upon startup surges, but I haven’t had any such issues when I went with one rating higher.... it’s the same recommendation that Alfred from highend-electronics.com gives.



Very good suggestion, I have blown expensive SR fuses, in an amp though.


----------



## Thenewguy007

MarkR7 said:


> If I may offer a suggestion, at least referring to SR fuses.... upsize one rating. In this case, I bought a 630ma SR Blue fuse. In the past on other gear, I found that SR fuses (blacks and blues) have blown too easily upon startup surges, but I haven’t had any such issues when I went with one rating higher.... it’s the same recommendation that Alfred from highend-electronics.com gives.



Be careful though, if going too high & the fuse won't recognize there is a problem & blow when needed & you will fry your unit instead.


----------



## JaMo (Feb 26, 2019)

You are right....and that's why You have the fuse in gears in the first place(!) Listen to DACLadder: - right value (500mA ) and slow blow to take care of the inrush current.

/Jan


----------



## wwmhf

Actually, a dangerous but known tweak is to get rid of the fuse at all! For example, it was a recommended tweak for Gustard X20 DAC, if I remember correctly.


----------



## rafabro

I have 4A fuse in my U16.


----------



## wwmhf (Feb 26, 2019)

4 amperes? At such a high rating, I guess it works like no fuse for protecting the U16.

U16 should be considered as a low power device. If it can burn a 4A fuse, then it must have some serious defects.


----------



## FredA (Feb 26, 2019)

In both the linear supplies i have for my usbidge, there is a 30VA transformer, you would not expect a fuse value much higher than .5A under 120V. One has T1.5A and the other one has 3.0A (fast). I ordered a T1.0A for each. Should be enough. In the worst case, i will blow a 5$ fuse, so no sweat. 

As mentioned, it’s better to keep the original rating for the u16. It’s safer.


----------



## Sage Encore

Thank God, I have never had this problem of blowing fuses. Waiting for my Furutech to arrive, time for some fuse rolling. LOL


----------



## rafabro

wwmhf said:


> 4 amperes? At such a high rating, I guess it works like no fuse for protecting the U16.
> 
> U16 should be considered as a low power device. If it can burn a 4A fuse, then it must have some serious defects.


Correct. But my intension is the highest possible sound quality.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Sage Encore said:


> Thank God, I have never had this problem of blowing fuses. Waiting for my Furutech to arrive, time for some fuse rolling. LOL



From my experience (not on the U16), the Hifi Tuniung Supreme & Furutech are brighter sounding & the Synergistic Research Red, Black & Blue are warmer sounding. Blue being the warmest sounding.
I can say the extension on both ends was noticeably better with a Hifi Supreme fuse vs the Synergistic Blue fuse I had at the same time.
Tthough the Supreme fuse gave the sound an added brightness that may or may not be a problem for some systems.
The Blue fuse imo dampened the sound too much or it might had made the midrange stood out more. It was hard to tell.


----------



## Sage Encore

Thenewguy007 said:


> From my experience (not on the U16), the Hifi Tuniung Supreme & Furutech are brighter sounding & the Synergistic Research Red, Black & Blue are warmer sounding. Blue being the warmest sounding.
> I can say the extension on both ends was noticeably better with a Hifi Supreme fuse vs the Synergistic Blue fuse I had at the same time.
> Tthough the Supreme fuse gave the sound an added brightness that may or may not be a problem for some systems.
> The Blue fuse imo dampened the sound too much or it might had made the midrange stood out more. It was hard to tell.


Hi sir,
Tell you the truth I am very happy with the SR20 in my Simaudio 430HAD and LD MkVi. I have a Red in my wall converter US plug to UK plug which is in turn connected to my Triton using Shunyata Alpha NR cable. The Furutech is for my Gustard U16. Lets see how it works out.


----------



## Chopin75

You guys are nuts haha!, Fuse rolling, first time ever heard of this!  And place a fuse till it won't protect the gear, even more crazy! I definitely cannot do this kind of fuse rolling on my power amp, which tends to blow out the fuse when the rectifier tube or output tube misbehaves. Maybe I will try out some cheaper silver alloy fuse oner day.


----------



## FredA

Chopin75 said:


> You guys are nuts haha!, Fuse rolling, first time ever heard of this!  And place a fuse till it won't protect the gear, even more crazy! I definitely cannot do this kind of fuse rolling on my power amp, which tends to blow out the fuse when the rectifier tube or output tube misbehaves. Maybe I will try out some cheaper silver alloy fuse oner day.


Gives these a try. I have ordered 3 for my current gears and used them before in power amps:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1x-hifi-Sil...var=431600648423&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## rafabro

Chopin75 said:


> You guys are nuts haha!, Fuse rolling, first time ever heard of this!.


Seriously? Well, in audio everything matters.


----------



## FredA (Feb 28, 2019)

rafabro said:


> Seriously? Well, in audio everything matters.


You are right. Knowing that all the current going to a component passes through its tiny wire, the fuse is not to be neglected and an upgrade with  most often has a welcome effect.


----------



## Sage Encore (Feb 28, 2019)

FredA said:


> You are right. Knowing that all the current going to a component passes through its tiny wire, the fuse is not to be neglected and an upgrade most often has a welcome effect.


Agreed. I never thought  real good fuses are capable of making such a positive impact.


----------



## Seegs108

After my first unit stopped working, I was able to send it back and exchange it for a new one. After doing this trick, I was able to remove the pre-emphasis flag the U16 sends my PS Audio Directstream DAC:

https://forum.psaudio.com/t/getting-oppo-dsd-output-to-the-direct-stream-dac/2744/102

 After a few days listening to this DDC (with the HDMI mod I did) I think it sounds wonderful. It's smooth and very natural sounding to me. This is an excellent product for the price. They still need to work out a few software bugs, but I think, as it stands, this is a solid product more people should try.


----------



## motberg

Are you PS Audio folks getting i2s playback OK with all sample rates as Gustard advertised for the U16?


----------



## Seegs108

motberg said:


> Are you PS Audio folks getting i2s playback OK with all sample rates as Gustard advertised for the U16?



Yes,  as far as I can tell.


----------



## FredA

Seegs108 said:


> Yes,  as far as I can tell.


Does this mean a new firmware has been issued? Cause it's not available on Shenzen Audio 's download page.


----------



## wwmhf

I checked it last night, the most recent firmware was still V1.61


----------



## Seegs108 (Mar 2, 2019)

FredA said:


> Does this mean a new firmware has been issued? Cause it's not available on Shenzen Audio 's download page.


I have 1.61 installed,  PSA I2S mode enabled on the U16 and no issues getting sample rates from 44.1 to 192khz, 16 or 24 bit. DSD 64 and 128 work as well. With prior firmwares I used to get odd sounding artifacts (pops and ticks) and now that seems to be gone. I did have to cover pin 15 on my HDMI cable to remove the pre-emphasis flag however. I have a PS Audio Directstream DAC.


----------



## FredA

Seegs108 said:


> I have 1.61 installed,  PSA I2S mode enabled on the U16 and no issues getting sample rates from 44.1 to 192khz, 16 or 24 bit. DSD 64 and 128 work as well. With prior firmwares I used to get odd sounding artifacts (pops and ticks) and now that seems to be gone. I did have to cover pin 15 on my HDMI cable to remove the pre-emphasis flag however. I have a PS Audio Directstream DAC.


Maybe that pin covering is the key. Gustard is slow to address those issues I find.


----------



## wwmhf

My understanding is that we cannot expect too much from Gustard for updating the software/firmware as quickly as want them to. My impression is that this is a tiny company with a very small engineering team and no software team at all.


----------



## jimmychan

The firmware is done by ESS as this is contracted to them.


----------



## peteg

jimmychan said:


> The firmware is done by ESS as this is contracted to them.


I don't think so, I believe its all Gustard.


----------



## FredA

jimmychan said:


> The firmware is done by ESS as this is contracted to them.


Ess is not responsive to say the least.


----------



## wwmhf (Mar 2, 2019)

ESS's reply posted here also seems to discourage people to use its chip ..., but why?


----------



## Seegs108

wwmhf said:


> ESS's reply posted here seems to discourage people to use its chip ..., but why?



Which post is this?


----------



## JaMo

Seegs108 said:


> Which post is this?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...terface-featuring-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-31 

Pos# 283


----------



## wwmhf

Thanks, but I think you meant Pos# 253


----------



## JaMo

Yes, You are right. 253 it is. Sorry


----------



## Ludique

Is Gustard Shenzhen Audio's house brand? Gustard has no webpage, and the Facebook page could be administered by Shenzhen. Does it have a physical address or a factory? It is surely surrounded by secrecy.


----------



## peteg

I finally found a silver one, so its on the way.


----------



## BrainFood (Mar 4, 2019)

henkeman said:


> @DACLadder
> Thanks, guess its ok
> 
> My 220V fuse is 1500mA



Hmm, received a U16 three days ago and mine (also 220V) is 500mA, so they are sending either 500mA or 1500mA to 220v customers it appears.   Anyone know which is the correct rating, please?


----------



## DACLadder

@BrainFood The correct value fuse seems to be T500mA - slow blow 0.5A.


----------



## BrainFood (Mar 4, 2019)

DACLadder said:


> @BrainFood The correct value fuse seems to be T500mA - slow blow 0.5A.


Hey, thanks for quick reply! Good to know.  Thanks also to @FredA for the heads up on the cheap ebay fuses.

Received a U16 three days ago and connected to my ADI-2 DAC with a 1 metre stereovox HDXV spdif cable. BNC -> coaxial.

Big thanks to @soumya.banerjee for doing the Thesycon driver configuration mod:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...ing-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-38#post-14757223

The U16 came with the ubiquitous V1.61 96k and it seemed to work without issues on my music files (via the excellent JPLAY FEMTO), albeit which are mainly 16/44.  However, when watching video via VLC using the Gustard 4.47 driver directly (not JPLAY), speech was not completely in sync with the video. The TUSB audio control panel reported the sample rate as 192K even though they were 16/44 files, and the lowest buffer setting possible magically changed itself from 8 samples to 32.

So, flashed to V1.4 0dB and VLC now plays video/audio in sync. Buffer is set to 8 samples, with 44k correctly shown in the control panel.  Sound quality, which is excellent by the way, seems to be marginally less an 'open window' into the music with 1.4 compared to 1.61? The burning in process could easily explain any perceived differences, so take that with a grain of salt. Still, looking forward to Gustard updating the FW shortly!


----------



## DACLadder (Mar 4, 2019)

Seegs108 said:


> PSA I2S mode enabled on the U16 and no issues getting sample rates from 44.1 to 192khz, 16 or 24 bit. DSD 64 and 128 work as well. With prior firmwares I used to get odd sounding artifacts (pops and ticks) and now that seems to be gone. I did have to cover pin 15 on my HDMI cable to remove the pre-emphasis flag however. I have a PS Audio Directstream DAC.



I spotted a jumper (J1) inside the U16 near the HDMI connector that is labeled 'DSD Flag' with three jumper positions: Default, Pin 14, and Pin 16.  These must be some kind of mode pin strapping for DSD audio.  Not sure how to interpret U16's J1 jumper  - especially for pin 15 in your case.  Anyone know?






PS Audio uses HDMI I2S pins 15 and 16 as serial I2C communications.  At least PSA did many years ago.


----------



## Quadman

DACLadder said:


> I spotted a jumper (J1) inside the U16 near the HDMI connector that is labeled 'DSD Flag'



Wow Thank you!  I have been so frustrated helping a friend (with team viewer) get DSD512 playback with u16 and LKS 004 dac.  Neither HQP or Roon will switch to DSD upsampling.  This may very well be the reason.   Gustard default pin out is 15, LKS trigger is pin 14, they weren't talking to one another and driver would not switch to DSD mode.  Ten to one this will solve this issue.  Fingers crossed it will.  Thank you!!!!!


----------



## DACLadder

@Quadman  And to gain access to the U16's jumper J1 remove the four rear plus two bottom hex screws.  They are metric H2 (2mm).  Slide the rear panel back slightly to gain access to the jumper. DO NOT attempt to remove the entire circuit board.  A short ribbon cable connects to the front panel display.  The cable disconnects but did not figure out how to gain access to the connector for re-connection. Its a tight fit for my hand.  Anyway, once unscrewed slide the backpanel out slowly about 1 inch or so (~25mm).  You will see the jumper next to the HDMI connector.

When trying to re-insert the board/ backpanel back into the chassis first align the circuit board in the chassis groove just above the bottom left mounting screw nut.  Align it and slide the board/ backpanel into the chassis.  All screw holes should line up straight.  If they don't check to make sure the board is completely in the left bottom groove.  The circuit board right hand side has no chassis alignment groove.


----------



## Quadman

@DACLadder  Thanks I'll pass to owner, I am 2000 miles from him.  Pretty sure he has the skills needed he was an electrical contractor.


----------



## FredA

Got my Aucharm fuses (5$) from ebay.

I just installed them, not much of a change i would say so far. Their build quality is nice. Perhaps a small resolution increase, the high-hat seems cleaner. Drums in general.


----------



## FredA (Mar 4, 2019)

The fuses really seem to make a difference: slighty blacker background, better overall clarity. More  bass impact. I had tried these Aucharm fuses before and had found them to bring a nice improvment. I am happy with what i hear right now.

I alway put the lettering in the  current direction in the positive phase of the ac cycle by the way.


----------



## Ludique (Mar 5, 2019)

Blacker background is the first thing I notice after putting in a better fuse. Especially in digital gear. Sometimes it results in brightness, sometimes smoothness.


----------



## sanvara (Mar 5, 2019)

DACLadder said:


> @BrainFood The correct value fuse seems to be T500mA - slow blow 0.5A.



Is there a recommendation (and link) for best bang for the buck price /performance fuse for U16. It's a $300 device so I'd think $50 or less would be appropriate.


----------



## rafabro

sanvara said:


> Is there a recommendation (and link) for best bang for the buck price /performance fuse for U16. It's a $300 device so I'd think $50 or less would be appropriate.


HiFi Tuning Supreme


----------



## BrainFood (Mar 5, 2019)

FredA said:


> Got my Aucharm fuses (5$) from ebay.



Those are ones you linked to a few pages back?  I don't see the name Aucharm mentioned by the seller.


----------



## FredA

BrainFood said:


> Those are ones you linked to a few pages back?  I don't see the name Aucharm mentioned by the seller.


They are the ones. I ordered a couple more for my monoblocks.


----------



## DACLadder (Mar 5, 2019)

FredA said:


> Got my Aucharm fuses (5$) from ebay



I received my shipment of Aucharm fuses yesterday as well.  Did you notice they are directional?  On the outside there is a printed diagram of a diode in parallel with a capacitor.  I positioned the diode "arrow" shaped direction down in the U16's vertical fuse holder (up) --->|----  (down).  Sounds good but haven't experimented with orientation.  They were cheap with several Ebay vendors (search Ebay "Aucharm fuse").  Purchased different values for spares and other equipment.


----------



## DACLadder (Mar 5, 2019)

After using the U16 since November 2018 I notice with Windows 10 and Foobar I can hear clicks and pops in the audio playback when a Web page is opening.  And the noise stops when the page has completely loaded in the Web browser.  My Windows machine uses the Singxer F1 for soundmapper audio duties.  So the U16 is dedicated exclusively for Foobar playback and no other use.

The Singxers (both SU-1 and F1) never have any issue like this with Windows and Foobar.  They multitask great with Windows.  That just leads me to conclusion that not only the U16 firmware seems buggy but the U16's Windows driver is not optimized for background audio playback.


----------



## FredA

DACLadder said:


> I received my shipment of Aucharm fuses yesterday as well.  Did you notice they are directional?  On the outside there is a printed diagram of a diode in parallel with a capacitor.  I positioned the diode "arrow" shaped direction down in the U16's vertical fuse holder (up) --->|----  (down).  Sounds good but haven't experimented with orientation.  They were cheap with several Ebay vendors (search Ebay "Aucharm fuse").  Purchased different values for spares and other equipment.


Yes, i know. Stil can't get why it matters but the direction makes a difference in general. Haven't played with it with the u16.


----------



## Seegs108 (Mar 5, 2019)

DACLadder said:


> After using the U16 since November 2018 I notice with Windows 10 and Foobar I can hear clicks and pops in the audio playback when a Web page is opening.  And the noise stops when the page has completely loaded in the Web browser.  My Windows machine uses the Singxer F1 for soundmapper audio duties.  So the U16 is dedicated exclusively for Foobar playback and no other use.
> 
> The Singxers (both SU-1 and F1) never have any issue like this with Windows and Foobar.  They multitask great with Windows.  That just leads me to conclusion that not only the U16 firmware seems buggy but the U16's Windows driver is not optimized for background audio playback.



I'm seeing the same exact issues. I also get issues with instability if I change the Volume control in Windows. Normally I have it set to 100, but on rare occasion I'll use the Windows volume control if sound is all of a sudden too loud. It's odd too, because some days I don't have any issues, but today I'm seeing these issues. So strange...


----------



## Sage Encore

Seegs108 said:


> I'm seeing the same exact issues. I also get issues with instability if I change the Volume control in Windows. Normally I have it set to 100, but on rare occasion I'll use the Windows volume control if sound is all of a sudden too loud. It's odd too, because some days I don't have any issues, but today I'm seeing these issues. So strange...


Same here guys, its intermittent. Some days ok, some days got pops and clicks once in a while. Gustard really has to do something. Quite irritating.


----------



## Quadman

DACLadder said:


> I spotted a jumper (J1) inside the U16 near the HDMI connector that is labeled 'DSD Flag' with three jumper positions: Default, Pin 14, and Pin 16



So moving the jumper to match the LKS DSD trigger of Pin 14, did NOT solve the DSD upsampling issue (USB from PC to U16, I2S from U16 to LKS dac).  We can upsample to all PCM rates just fine, no issues.  The driver, I assume, does not switch over to DSD mode when trying to upsample with HQP or Roon.  Yesterday after moving the jumper to pin 14, I uninstalled the U16 driver and then reinstalled the driver, then even reflashed the firmware to 1.4 LKS.

So if the U16 is not connected to a dac, PC only by USB, can someone tell me who uses HQP will HQP switch over to DSD mode?  By that I mean in the main HQP screen if SDM is selected as output in the Box below the big volume knob will the filters in the far left box switch to the ones in the SDM Defaults on the settings page (Oversampling and modulator).   Right now when we select SDM as output mode the filters in the far left boxes remain PCM filters and as a result upsampling is PCM only.


----------



## Seegs108 (Mar 7, 2019)

Sage Encore said:


> Same here guys, its intermittent. Some days ok, some days got pops and clicks once in a while. Gustard really has to do something. Quite irritating.



At this point it's just an annoyance for me. For $300 this thing has no right to sound as good as it does. So I'm willing to put up with some of these quirks. To give you some context, I sold my Sonore Signature Series Rendu last year ($2900 MSRP) and while the sound signature of each of these devices is different, I find the U16 sounds just as good as that device in most ways. The Sonore SSR sounded a bit cleaner than this device (probably due to its overkill power supply), but the U16 sounds smoother and more musical to my ears. I'm hoping they fix the driver issues, but as it stands now I'm definitely going to keep my U16


----------



## Zachik

Got a question to all the U16 fans / experts:
I currently use U12, to feed my Metrum Amethyst DAC (via coax).
Given that my DAC does NOT support AES or I2S, my best option is Coax input - would I benefit at all from upgrade from U12??

I do not have golden ears. 
Most my music is FLAC at 44.1 / 16 (have a couple albums at 96/24).
I use headphones (not 2 channel speaker setup) connected to Schiit Lyr 3 and Monoprice LP headphone amps.

what are the chances I would hear noticeable difference? and is it worth fighting the FW and driver issues people have been reporting??  My setup with the U12 works great and reliably!

Thoughts? Opinions?


----------



## DACLadder

@Zachik Hard to say whether you would get enough sonic benefit with coax.  Never know though until you give it a try.  With all of the U16’s operational issues I say save your money for another 3-6 months and see what’s ahead in the near future.


----------



## DACLadder

Has anyone compared sound qualities against a modded Singxer SU-1 (like Kitsune or Magna Hifi)?  I did recent comparisons with the regular SU-1 and F1 and the U16 still has the edge in the sound department.  Nothing stood out as way better but in generally a little bit better everywhere and definitely noticeable.

Anyway just wondering how the U16 compares in the sound department to the modded SU-1.


----------



## Chopin75

Zachik said:


> Got a question to all the U16 fans / experts:
> I currently use U12, to feed my Metrum Amethyst DAC (via coax).
> Given that my DAC does NOT support AES or I2S, my best option is Coax input - would I benefit at all from upgrade from U12??
> 
> ...



Have you tried the Schiit -https://www.schiit.com/products/eitr

It can only do PCM up to 24/192, more than what you need. Dedicated to PCM only. Only has Coax but it seems that is all you will need.  Won't need to deal with the firmware crap.


----------



## Chopin75

DACLadder said:


> Has anyone compared sound qualities against a modded Singxer SU-1 (like Kitsune or Magna Hifi)?  I did recent comparisons with the regular SU-1 and F1 and the U16 still has the edge in the sound department.  Nothing stood out as way better but in generally a little bit better everywhere and definitely noticeable.
> 
> Anyway just wondering how the U16 compares in the sound department to the modded SU-1.


Is it really worth upgrading to this U16 to replace my F-1 board, given all the firmware crap there is? I need it to do all PCM to DXD/DSD256 but it appears this device can only do some of this with specific firmwares only.


----------



## rocky500

I'm holding off in the hope they may bring out a revised hardware version that just works or another company brings one out like eg. topping.
I have a modded Singxer SU-1 that I plugged in and never gave it another thought.
Always open to try new things but will wait to see how this one develops as currently it looks a bit glitchy.


----------



## Zachik

Chopin75 said:


> Have you tried the Schiit -https://www.schiit.com/products/eitr
> 
> It can only do PCM up to 24/192, more than what you need. Dedicated to PCM only. Only has Coax but it seems that is all you will need.  Won't need to deal with the firmware ****.


Would Eitr be an upgrade to my U12 (that just works)?


----------



## DACLadder

@Chopin75  The U16 does sound great with 44 - 96k PCM.  I have spotty results 176k PCM and above.  Not a lot of luck with DSD but only have a few files.

Again I would not rush to upgrade if you need or can’t tolerate less than 100% operational performance.  Wait and see if the issues get resolved.  The U16 can be frustrating until understood but rewarding enough when it works!


----------



## domho7

Agree w dacladder I experience the same.
I do not have alot of dsd files also. 
Hopefully gustard can come up with better firmware on dsd issues


----------



## Chopin75

Zachik said:


> Would Eitr be an upgrade to my U12 (that just works)?


Not sure, I never tried it. You can find a forum for that and ask. It is supposed to be one of the best DDC for PCM only with no I2S, but if Coax is all you need, it may be perfect. It has 2 separate clocks for 44hz and 48hz which supposedly would work better. It already has its own LPS . so no need to plug anything else to it. 15 day trial period.


----------



## Zachik

Chopin75 said:


> Not sure, I never tried it. You can find a forum for that and ask. It is supposed to be one of the best DDC for PCM only with no I2S, but if Coax is all you need, it may be perfect. It has 2 separate clocks for 44hz and 48hz which supposedly would work better. It already has its own LPS . so no need to plug anything else to it. 15 day trial period.


Anyone on this thread compared the U12 to U16, and/or to Schiit Eitr?


----------



## Chopin75

Zachik said:


> Anyone on this thread compared the U12 to U16, and/or to Schiit Eitr?


Check out post 172, someone wrote:
"Just a heads up for those with the Job Integraged amp. I have had it with the U16 for about a week now and the improvement is significant, using the Job's inbuilt dac. I had the Schiit Eitr before and it made little difference with the Job but this is completely different. The soundstage is much better and there is more clarity. It was a bit rough in the trebble initially, but that is wearing off, and I am using a PC with the Jcat USB card but no extra isolation."

You can ask him directly, check if he uses I2S or Coax etc


----------



## Criable

Heads up to those who are using SOtM streamers with U16.
I wrote to May from SOtM regarding native DSD support and apparently SOtM doesn't support native DSD streaming for U16.
However - I do understand that there are some people here who have managed to successfully stream DSD to U16 via their SOtM streamer - this puzzles SOtM as well.
The good news is that an upcoming firmware update will allow the SOtM streamer to stream native DSD to U16 - hopefully by then the clicks and pops is a thing in the past


----------



## rafabro

domho7 said:


> Agree w dacladder I experience the same.
> I do not have alot of dsd files also.
> Hopefully gustard can come up with better firmware on dsd issues


It's matter of compatibility here. Gustart to Gustard play perfect. I never experience any issue and play DSD every day.


----------



## koonyue (Mar 8, 2019)

PitBul34 said:


> Works problemless in PCM & DSD Native modes with my Honor 10 (via Hiby Music player), but sound isn't so good as for Gustard ASIO driver for Windows, imo.



Hi,

I am using Huawei phone as well, try switch it to "super power saving" mode and turn on airplane mode, the sound will much much improved.


----------



## Seegs108

Can someone please tell me what OSC:INT means on the display?


----------



## Ludique (Mar 8, 2019)

I owned the Schiit Eitr a couple of years ago. It had pinpoint imaging, that was sure, but also coarseness which left me unhappy. My system had different components at the time, but U16 seems more pleasant in the long run, little doubt about that.


----------



## Ludique (Mar 9, 2019)

Seegs108 said:


> Can someone please tell me what OSC:INT means on the display?



The OSCillators (the clocks) in use are the INTernal ones, in stead of an external 10 mhz clock you could attach to the last bnc input.


----------



## batfier

DACLadder said:


> Has anyone compared sound qualities against a modded Singxer SU-1 (like Kitsune or Magna Hifi)?  I did recent comparisons with the regular SU-1 and F1 and the U16 still has the edge in the sound department.  Nothing stood out as way better but in generally a little bit better everywhere and definitely noticeable.
> 
> Anyway just wondering how the U16 compares in the sound department to the modded SU-1.



yes, as stated some post before, I compared U16 with "singxer su-1 magna version" and could not tell a real difference.

U16 is really annoying. I tested some new headphones this weekend and after some time notice slightly bass distortions,  mids and highs were ok. After initially blaming the headphone, amp and dac I found out it's the U16, but only the bnc port. this was completely unexpected, as I played 44 and 48khz music. I2s had no distortion. even off/on could not solve the problem.

this is completely frustrating. 

before its was clear when music starts if it plays correctly with u16 or not, as distortion were heavy and therefore clearly noticeable.

I switched back the su-1, no distortion, no problem...

it's a pitty, I like the display and the additional toslink port of the u16, but if I can not trust, if its plays correctly when it plays, its again annoying.


----------



## Toni-Mang

There are some comments regarding firmware 1.61 vs 1.4 psa and distrtion some pages back...this might help..


----------



## batfier

Toni-Mang said:


> There are some comments regarding firmware 1.61 vs 1.4 psa and distrtion some pages back...this might help..



I know, some of the comments are coming from myself.

but as I wrote, until now distortions were clearly noticable and dedicated to specific sample rates.

the distortion I discovered now, started after some listing and were not so obvious at the beginning.


----------



## BrainFood (Mar 10, 2019)

Can't say I've noticed any bass distortion at 16/44 with 1.4 0db firmware (BNC -> coaxial)


----------



## Articnoise

I have had no problem with the S/PDIF and the 1.61 firmware.


----------



## peteg

Should have mine sometime today, hopefully it will be broke-in for the weekend.


----------



## wwmhf

I feel that breaking is less critical than choosing a right firmware (V1.4, V1.52, V1.61, ...)


----------



## peteg

My unit is from the second batch of silver ones made, so pretty new. It should have v1.61.


----------



## PLGA

My experience with the U16 is that it got much better after burning in.
Mine came with the V1.61 and I changed it for V1.4 because Ive had noise in some PCM sample rates, but V1.4 didnt solve it.
If I go back to V1.4, should I get better sound? Has any of you compared V1.61 vs V1.4 firmwares regarding JUST sound quality?
Im having a "tremendous" sound with V1.4, but doesnt hurt to try if theres a better opinion on V1.61 regarding sound quality.


----------



## BrainFood

PLGA said:


> My experience with the U16 is that it got much better after burning in.
> Mine came with the V1.61 and I changed it for V1.4 because Ive had noise in some PCM sample rates, but V1.4 didnt solve it.
> If I go back to V1.4, should I get better sound? Has any of you compared V1.61 vs V1.4 firmwares regarding JUST sound quality?
> Im having a "tremendous" sound with V1.4, but doesnt hurt to try if theres a better opinion on V1.61 regarding sound quality.



As reported a couple of pages back, I thought I heard a step down in sq when changing from 1.61 to 1.4 0db.  That was only on day two from new though.


----------



## Aurion

soumya.banerjee said:


> So the U16 drivers are version 4.47 of Thesycon drivers. That's the same version as FiiO's latest Q5/X7 drivers. So I copied the CplApp.exe, the Xml file and the ini file.
> Rename them to GustardAudioUSBAudioCpl.exe, GustardAudioUSBAudioCpl.xml.
> Insert the InterfaceGUID = {0A5FD377-0EF8-4380-AD47-F0B86D4796E0} in xml file where it says
> <DriverInterfaceGUID>{0A5FD377-0EF8-4380-AD47-F0B86D4796E0}</DriverInterfaceGUID>.
> ...



I recently acquired the Gustard U16, and have been using it as a front end for the Holo Audio Cyan. Very pleased with the Gustard U16 as it vastly improved the Cyan clean sound and imaging, making the Cyan nearly holographic. My only problem was that after my NUC8i7hvk Windows 10 startup, the Gustard U16 would not initialize and play Youtube.com files without turning the Gustard power switch Off then On. On the other hand all of my music and video files through Jriver and Roon would play without turning Gustard power On and Off.

 After some thought regarding soumya.banerjee's insightful post, and his mentioning that the Thesycon drivers are the same as the Fiio's Q5/X7 drivers, it occured to me that my Cyan drivers probably belonged to the same Thesycon family of USB drivers.

 I followed soumya.banerjee's instructions, only substituting the Holo Cyan USB exe, Xml, and ini files and renaming them to the Gustard exe, Xml, and ini files, as suggested by Soumya.

I now have in my Gustard U16 C:\Drivers folder the renamed, and ini edited KitsuneHiFi_HoloAudio_v4.43.0.zip files: GustardAudioUSBAudioCpl.strings (folder), custom.ini, GustardAudioUSBAudioCpl.exe, and GustardAudioUSBAudioCpl.xml.

Everything works perfectly now. My thanks again to souyma.banerjee.


----------



## Joong

Anybody here tried U16 with Topping DX7s?


----------



## wwmhf

Aurion said:


> I recently acquired the Gustard U16, and have been using it as a front end for the Holo Audio Cyan. Very pleased with the Gustard U16 as it vastly improved the Cyan clean sound and imaging, making the Cyan nearly holographic. My only problem was that after my NUC8i7hvk Windows 10 startup, the Gustard U16 would not initialize and play Youtube.com files without turning the Gustard power switch Off then On. On the other hand all of my music and video files through Jriver and Roon would play without turning Gustard power On and Off.
> 
> After some thought regarding soumya.banerjee's insightful post, and his mentioning that the Thesycon drivers are the same as the Fiio's Q5/X7 drivers, it occured to me that my Cyan drivers probably belonged to the same Thesycon family of USB drivers.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing this info, and of course, I would like to thank Soumya again. We are making improvement on a good device, even though its manufacture is not doing much to make even better.


----------



## peteg

I have around 75hrs now and really enjoying the sound I'm getting, less edgy sound around the notes but still has detail. U16 is more analog sounding than my Singxer su-1.

Now the not so good, when playing 176/192khz I get the dreaded distortion (v1.6/v1.4) so I have the ability to down sample to 96khz which works and sounds good, just a band-aid for now hopefully. All DSD plays fine.

As mentioned here already disconnecting the power from the USB to the U16 increases SQ. I'm interested in the Singxer su-6 but it has a pretty hefty price.


----------



## motberg

peteg said:


> I have around 75hrs now and really enjoying the sound I'm getting, less edgy sound around the notes but still has detail. U16 is more analog sounding than my Singxer su-1.
> 
> Now the not so good, when playing 176/192khz I get the dreaded distortion (v1.6/v1.4) so I have the ability to down sample to 96khz which works and sounds good, just a band-aid for now hopefully. All DSD plays fine.
> 
> As mentioned here already disconnecting the power from the USB to the U16 increases SQ. I'm interested in the Singxer su-6 but it has a pretty hefty price.



If you don't mind, what DAC and connection type (SPDIF, i2S, etc..) are you using?


----------



## motberg

Interesting comment above; _disconnecting the power from the USB to the U16 increases SQ_

I am finding here in 2 systems the U16 really likes the W4S Recovery reclocker cleaning up the USB input.
...opened the soundstage and added realistic detail to vocals and cymbals. 
I am using pretty expensive power for these (Uptone LPS1.2 or LPS1.0 powered by 8.5V 3A LPS with good cables), so maybe that is a good part of the improvement.. not sure

https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/recovery

149 USD with discount code wyred4RECOVERY


----------



## motberg

Anyone here recently having U16 success with Linux and i2s output ? 
Since I need upsample everything to one of my DAC's using the Windows driver, I was thinking try the HQPlayer Linux based NAA endpoint or something like AudioLinux .


----------



## peteg (Mar 17, 2019)

motberg said:


> If you don't mind, what DAC and connection type (SPDIF, i2S, etc..) are you using?


Lumin U1 >U16 >I2s into a denafrips terminator.


----------



## PLGA

motberg said:


> Interesting comment above; _disconnecting the power from the USB to the U16 increases SQ_
> 
> I am finding here in 2 systems the U16 really likes the W4S Recovery reclocker cleaning up the USB input.
> ...opened the soundstage and added realistic detail to vocals and cymbals.
> ...



Hello motberg
I also have the W4S USB Reclocker (RUR) with a Linear Power Supply feeding the U16 and then to my Audio-gd R8 DAC.
I must say I agreed with you about the good sound of the RUR with LPS feeding the U16. Outstanding!


----------



## rafabro

motberg said:


> Interesting comment above; _disconnecting the power from the USB to the U16 increases SQ_
> 
> I am finding here in 2 systems the U16 really likes the W4S Recovery reclocker cleaning up the USB input.
> ...opened the soundstage and added realistic detail to vocals and cymbals.
> I am using pretty expensive power for these (Uptone LPS1.2 or LPS1.0 powered by 8.5V 3A LPS with good cables), so maybe that is a good part of the improvement.. not sure


What is your source/transport exactly?


----------



## motberg

rafabro said:


> What is your source/transport exactly?



Hi, I have 2 systems, 

The one with the NOS7 DAC is a dual PC setup output via a JPlay V2 USB PCIe card (LPS>Uptone LPS 1> 1.5 A LT3045 box).. 
(I would need some time to write down computers details, but they both use LPS's, fanless, JPlay Femto in Control PC/Audio PC software setup), 
I use an Intona Industrial USB isolator after the JPlay card and then to a Recovery (powered by a 3A LPS to Uptone LPS-1.2) then to the U16 and then to Audio-GD NOS7 via Wireworld Starlight 7 HDMI 0.5M . This setup works in all PCM up to 384K. (I think the Recovery helps this system due to cleaning up the Intona output)

The other system below is where I just also introduced a Recovery... (I think this system below gets better Recovery benefit due to the PPA v2 USB card is not as refined as the JPlay used above) 

Computer details: Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H, I5-4670t, NOFAN CR-95c, 2x4 GB Corsair, TeraDak 210 ATX LPS,  PPA V2 USB card (LPS with iFi DC iPurifier), 32GB OS SSD (LPS), PS/2 mouse, USB keyboard, on-board video (monitor is powered off during play), 256+500GB SSD's for primary music (all WAV files), all SSD's use PPA red thin SATA cables and suspension blocks, (all SSD's use independent LPS's),  

Software: WIN2012 Server Core and AO, Older version HQPlayer* feeding JPlay FEMTO, Total Commander for navigation. 

Then: PPA USB card > PPA dual USB 1.8M cable > Singxer UIP-1 USB isolator (2A LPS with iFi DC iPurifier powers UIP-1) > PPA .5m USB > W4S Recovery (3A LPS to Uptone LPS-1 with iFi DC iPurifier2 powers Recovery)  > PPA 0.2M USB > Gustard U16 > HDMI (Wireworld Starlight 5.2, 0.3M) i2S > Audio-GD R1.

*This setup requires to upsample everything to 384 Khz for the U16 to work.

I was running this without the Recovery for about a month, so got a good feeling for the SQ presentation... recently adding the Recovery was immediately noticeable. 

The DAC's and U16's are powered by an Audio-GD HE350 220v regenerator. 
I put Mumetal sheets in critical areas where components/cables needed to be located close together.

This may seem overkill - but my place probably has very dirty mains power, thus the benefit from isolation and reclocking the computers USB output. 
In fact, I tried an Uptone ISO Regen - and with that inline my computer would shutdown whenever I clicked any local light switch.. but isolation related problems was not totally unique for the ISORegen, my guess is between 10% to 15% of users could not use the isolation for that device.
The Intona Industrial and Singxer UIP-1 USB isolators work perfectly in my systems.

The best success I had *not *using an outboard isolator was with the JCAT USB card direct to the R1 which has the Amanero isolation option. 
This was very close SQ to the UIP-1/Recovery >SU-1 DDC (LPS>Uptone LPS 1>iFi DC iPurifier) HDMI i2s to the R1.

From memory, I would say the U16 benefits more from the Recovery than the SU-1.
(But the SU-1 is sitting on the shelf as a backup..


----------



## rafabro

motberg said:


> (But the SU-1 is sitting on the shelf as a backup..


Same here  Thanks


----------



## newtophones07

motberg said:


> Hi, I have 2 systems,
> 
> The one with the NOS7 DAC is a dual PC setup output via a JPlay V2 USB PCIe card (LPS>Uptone LPS 1> 1.5 A LT3045 box)..
> (I would need some time to write down computers details, but they both use LPS's, fanless, JPlay Femto in Control PC/Audio PC software setup),
> ...





PLGA said:


> Hello motberg
> I also have the W4S USB Reclocker (RUR) with a Linear Power Supply feeding the U16 and then to my Audio-gd R8 DAC.
> I must say I agreed with you about the good sound of the RUR with LPS feeding the U16. Outstanding!




Isn't the point of the U16 to "clean" up the USB output from a PC?  Why the need to daisy chain so many devices in between the source (PC) and the U16 ?


----------



## rafabro

newtophones07 said:


> Isn't the point of the U16 to "clean" up the USB output from a PC?



Yes it is, but.. Are you assuming U16 is absolutely perfect device? Seriously?


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Mar 20, 2019)

motberg said:


> The other system
> ... Gustard U16 > HDMI (Wireworld Starlight 5.2, 0.3M) i2S > Audio-GD R1.
> 
> *This setup requires to upsample everything to 384 Khz for the U16 to work.



hi @motberg , jumping in here with a question - I just got a Gustard U16 myself, struggling to make it work well with the R1 via HDMI I2S.  It will play some sample rates fine one moment, then all i hear is static on the next track or sample rate test.  I'm almost at the point of asking the seller to take it back, as I have another system with the Singxer SU-6... which works flawlessly btw.  I currently use the SU-6 to drive my AGD Master-11 Singularity via RJ45 I2S, not impressed with the U16 experience so far. 

Did you set Windows audio to 32/384, and force your audio programs like HQ Player to do the upsampling to that specific rate?  I have tried HQPlayer but havent committed to buying it, using Roon as the base mainly.  I guess Roon can upsample everyhing to 384khz too, but that would rule out using stuff like the native TIDAL app in exclusive mode as the sample rate wouldnt get upsampled. 

Any set-up tips that made your gear play nice is appreciated!  Would really like to give the R1 a shot at this with the U16.  Thanks ...


----------



## motberg

UsoppNoKami said:


> hi @motberg , jumping in here with a question - I just got a Gustard U16 myself, struggling to make it work well with the R1 via HDMI I2S.  It will play some sample rates fine one moment, then all i hear is static on the next track or sample rate test.  I'm almost at the point of asking the seller to take it back, as I have another system with the Singxer SU-6... which works flawlessly btw.  I currently use the SU-6 to drive my AGD Master-11 Singularity via RJ45 I2S, not impressed with the U16 experience so far.
> 
> Did you set Windows audio to 32/384, and force your audio programs like HQ Player to do the upsampling to that specific rate?  I have tried HQPlayer but havent committed to buying it, using Roon as the base mainly.  I guess Roon can upsample everyhing to 384khz too, but that would rule out using stuff like the native TIDAL app in exclusive mode as the sample rate wouldnt get upsampled.
> 
> Any set-up tips that made your gear play nice is appreciated!  Would really like to give the R1 a shot at this with the U16.  Thanks ...



Hi,

For the R1, My guess is you have the latest firmware installed, so check to make sure the DSCSEL button on the front panel is set to indicate PSA on the screen.
There is also another older firmware available called "GU16V1_4_PSA_0db_PS_Audio_I2S.rom" and, from memory, I had much the same experience using both firmwares, most sampling rates do not work or noise.
Another member here posted this "force to 384K PCM" trick a while ago and it has been working rock solid for me and sounds very good with the R1 set to Non-oversampling mode 3.. (better than my SU-1 for my tastes)
I suggest HQPlayer, it works well and offers lots of options and is well supported. (Truth is I augment the SQ of HQPlayer using JPlay, but most HQPlayer users do not.)

In the HQPlayer manual section 2.13 explains the resampling filters available.
The far right column on the filters list is titled "Ratio".
*If the filter Ratio is listed as "Any", then the filter will resample to the exact maximum (/Limit) sample rate you have set in the settings panel.*
(I have tried all kinds of native rates and they always resample to 384K.)
In the HQPlayer SETTINGS control panel: 
under PCM DEFAULTS 
I am using* poly-sync-mp* Filter with *MS4* Dither
Sample Rate (/Limit) set to *384*
Make sure "Auto Rate Family" is *NOT* checked. 

Maybe someone can chime in if they are using Roon to resample and if the rate can be made to "stick" at a set rate.. (I would not want it un-sticking though and slipping to a non supported rate while at volume.)
I am pretty sure I have read folks using HQPlayer with Roon.. but I have no direct experience.

OK, hope that helps - if you have any specific questions, please let us know.  
My guess is it is not only myself interested in a SQ comparison SU-6 to U16 

Good Luck!


----------



## motberg

newtophones07 said:


> Isn't the point of the U16 to "clean" up the USB output from a PC?  Why the need to daisy chain so many devices in between the source (PC) and the U16 ?



Hi,

In my experience and reading the past few years, computer audio - especially via USB - generally offers sound quality performance which is very system specific.
In many cases, isolating the computer from the DAC (or DDC like the U16) offers an improvement in sound quality.  
But USB high speed isolation seems tricky and sometimes the end result of the isolation can benefit from additional processing.

Some devices that perform this with varying degrees of effectiveness are:
https://pro.intona.eu/en/support/answer/1233
https://uptoneaudio.com/products/iso-regen
https://ifi-audio.com/products/nano-igalvanic3-0/
https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/singxer-uip-1-isolate-processor-usb2-0-usb-interface.html

These sites offer some basic information and then there are probably tens of thousands of posts on the internet with user feedback.
If you are in the USA, there is a good chance you can get some of these to test and return if not effective, I am pretty sure Uptone offers a 30 day trial and this is a small device, so easy to ship back if desired.

I hope that helps answer your question, have fun with your audio stuff!


----------



## Thenewguy007

UsoppNoKami said:


> hi @motberg , jumping in here with a question - I just got a Gustard U16 myself, struggling to make it work well with the R1 via HDMI I2S.  It will play some sample rates fine one moment, then all i hear is static on the next track or sample rate test.  I'm almost at the point of asking the seller to take it back, as I have another system with the Singxer SU-6... which works flawlessly btw.  I currently use the SU-6 to drive my AGD Master-11 Singularity via RJ45 I2S, not impressed with the U16 experience so far.



Did you try an A/B comparisons with the SU-6 & U16 to see if there are any sonic differences?


----------



## terirapt

I just received the U16. Source is the Aurender X100 and DAC is the Denafrips Terminator.

I am having issue with clicks and pops. It is really bad (not intermittent) with files of 96khz rate and above.  44.1khz and DSD seem fine.

- tried different firmware : same issue
- tried both HDMI I2S and Coax outputs : same issue.

Appreciate your advise.
Thank you.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

I got my unit from Shenzen Audio. Their support staff have promptly responded to all of my emails, our current conclusion is that Gustard knows it has a problem with the HDMI I2S interface, and I would just have to sit tight with a $300 paperweight until the next firmware hopefully fixes things. 

In comparison, the Singer SU-6 that I also got from them is excellent. Should have just bought 2 of them for my 2 rigs instead of trying this :/


----------



## peteg

terirapt said:


> I just received the U16. Source is the Aurender X100 and DAC is the Denafrips Terminator.
> 
> I am having issue with clicks and pops. It is really bad (not intermittent) with files of 96khz rate and above.  44.1khz and DSD seem fine.
> 
> ...


My source is LUMIN U1 > Gustard U16 > Terminator, DSD and 96khz down plays fine and sounds good. I set the Lumin to play anything above 96khz to down sample to 96khz and everything is fine but it’s just a band-aid. My modded Singxer SU1 never had a issue but I like the sound of the U16, at some point I might try the new Singxer SU6.


----------



## Aurion

UsoppNoKami said:


> I got my unit from Shenzen Audio. Their support staff have promptly responded to all of my emails, our current conclusion is that Gustard knows it has a problem with the HDMI I2S interface, and I would just have to sit tight with a $300 paperweight until the next firmware hopefully fixes things.
> 
> In comparison, the Singer SU-6 that I also got from them is excellent. Should have just bought 2 of them for my 2 rigs instead of trying this :/



I was having similar problems with my Gustard U16 feeding a Holo Audio Cyan dac. In another Head-fi thread it was suggested that the USB drivers were common to Thesycon drivers. Thesycon is apparently the usb software developers for various manufacturers including FiiO and Gustard. In fact these drivers are the 'same' according to the poster. With that in mind I renamed my Holo Cyan drivers, and followed the other suggestion offered by soumya.banjeree, and replaced the Gustard USB drivers on my c:\drive with the modified and renamed files  Holo Cyan drivers.

This worked for me and eliminated my having to turn off the Gustard and on again to enable my U16 to initialize my music players, JRiver and Roon.
Soumya's post can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/y6nwf3u4

BTW, my Gustard U16 is plugged into a Kasa Smart WiFi Plug, and the Gustard is AC powered On/Off via it's the Kasa android or ios  phone software program

The worst that can happen, I suspect, is that this usb driver substitution may not work for you. In that case you can reinstall the original Gustard USB drivers, or as I did back up the present Gustard drivers to another folder, perhaps renamed 'old.gustard.usb', and if needed just delete the newly renamed folder and files, and replace with the original backup folder files. I thanked Soumya and posted a description of the changes I made here: http://tinyurl.com/y5u2o7mn


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Mar 24, 2019)

Aurion said:


> I was having similar problems with my Gustard U16 feeding a Holo Audio Cyan dac. In another Head-fi thread it was suggested that the USB drivers were common to Thesycon drivers. Thesycon is apparently the usb software developers for various manufacturers including FiiO and Gustard. In fact these drivers are the 'same' according to the poster. With that in mind I renamed my Holo Cyan drivers, and followed the other suggestion offered by soumya.banjeree, and replaced the Gustard USB drivers on my c:\drive with the modified and renamed files  Holo Cyan drivers.
> 
> This worked for me and eliminated my having to turn off the Gustard and on again to enable my U16 to initialize my music players, JRiver and Roon.
> Soumya's post can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/y6nwf3u4
> ...



Hi Aurion,

Thanks for the heads up.  I tried Soumya's tweak - it's not actually a different driver, just provides the control panel UI for the Gustard drivers so that we can manipulate the buffer size, amongst other settings.

After some additional torture with random static during playback, i have found one single iteration that works - V1.4 PSA I2S firmware, 32 bit / 96khz in windows shared audio and 64 samples buffer.  anything else on the U16 with AudioGD R1 with HDMI I2S is liable to reduce the U16 paperweight into a pile of broken bits on the far wall.

I hope Shenzen Audio is right and Gustard's next firmware solves all the problems everyone has been reporting, but i'm not holding my breath...

@peteg the SU-6 is superb, doesnt need any isolation with the power stage design.  AGD M-11S sounds better without the iFi Nano Galvanic in the USB part of the chain.  How the Cyrstek femtoclocks line up against Accusilicon i don't know, but this DAC is an earlier build that doesnt have HDMI I2S so I can't try the U16 with it.  In any case, vs the Amanero USB, SU-6 improved the sound of the M-11S tremendously.  Give it a go if you're seriously considering it


----------



## Albrecht

""@peteg the SU-6 is superb, doesnt need any isolation with the power stage design. AGD M-11S sounds better without the iFi Nano Galvanic in the USB part of the chain. How the Cyrstek femtoclocks line up against Accusilicon i don't know, but this DAC is an earlier build that doesnt have HDMI I2S so I can't try the U16 with it. In any case, vs the Amanero USB, SU-6 improved the sound of the M-11S tremendously. Give it a go if you're seriously considering it""

Hi, do I understand you correctly in that you have the External, CMOS, Singxer SU-6? or do you have an internal board that plugs into your DAC that is an SU-6 board?

I've been interested to know what kind of improvements the SU-6 has utilized over the F-1. In my system, even with the built in power supply, - the Gustard U16 just kills the F-1. (And the F-1 was much better than the SU-1). 

But at 3 times the price, - no way am I going to try the SU-6 without an enormous consensus of U-16 folks who've moved to the SU-6.

Thanks,


----------



## Chopin75 (Mar 25, 2019)

I am not aware of SU-6 internal board, but that would be interesting. F-1 is same as SU-1 except it can be supplied by internal or extenal LPS, with extremely shirt I2S path (skip the HDMI ) |, hence can be better, esp if SU-1has no DC LPS,
Does the U-16 have Linear regulator inside? I know it is plugged as AC


----------



## UsoppNoKami (Mar 26, 2019)

Albrecht said:


> ""@peteg the SU-6 is superb, doesnt need any isolation with the power stage design. AGD M-11S sounds better without the iFi Nano Galvanic in the USB part of the chain. How the Cyrstek femtoclocks line up against Accusilicon i don't know, but this DAC is an earlier build that doesnt have HDMI I2S so I can't try the U16 with it. In any case, vs the Amanero USB, SU-6 improved the sound of the M-11S tremendously. Give it a go if you're seriously considering it""
> 
> Hi, do I understand you correctly in that you have the External, CMOS, Singxer SU-6? or do you have an internal board that plugs into your DAC that is an SU-6 board?
> 
> ...



Yes, the SU-6 is an external unit like the SU-1.  I decided to buy it primarily because it has RJ45 I2S which i need for my 2017 AudioGD Master-11 Singularity, and I chose it over the old SU-1 as it has a much cleaner power supply design and has Crystek 957 femtoclocks.  I can only compare it against the previous isolated USB setup - Matrix element H PCIe card (Crystek 957 femtoclocks, external iFi low noise DC power) -> iFi Mercury cable -> ifi Nano Galvanic -> MPS OCC USB cable -> AGD Amanero USB.  With SU-6 I2S instead of USB, the background is so black, and dynamics, heft & realism of sounds from the DAC improved tremendously.

Buying this sort of gear can be a leap of faith. If you are happy with your U16 and it works flawlessly with your gear, just enjoy your music and put the SU-6 out of mind.  

All i can say is that i wish i had read this thread more thoroughly beyond the glowing sound reviews, as the U16's firmware issues, static and playback problems via HDMI I2S with my other AGD DAC, R2R-R1, is immensely frustrating and just outright deserving of a 1-star rating.  I posted a day or two ago about finding one fixed setting that finally worked with the kind help from others here in this thread... after a system restart, it's now all static again.  I give up on the U16 for now, will hook it up again when Gustard removes their proverbial finger out of their behind and fixes the damn thing.


----------



## Albrecht

UsoppNoKami said:


> Yes, the SU-6 is an external unit like the SU-1.  I decided to buy it primarily because it has RJ45 I2S which i need for my 2017 AudioGD Master-11 Singularity, and I chose it over the old SU-1 as it has a much cleaner power supply design and has Crystek 957 femtoclocks.  I can only compare it against the previous isolated USB setup - Matrix element H PCIe card (Crystek 957 femtoclocks, external iFi low noise DC power) -> iFi Mercury cable -> ifi Nano Galvanic -> MPS OCC USB cable -> AGD Amanero USB.  With SU-6 I2S instead of USB, the background is so black, and dynamics, heft & realism of sounds from the DAC improved tremendously.
> 
> Buying this sort of gear can be a leap of faith. If you are happy with your U16 and it works flawlessly with your gear, just enjoy your music and put the SU-6 out of mind.
> 
> All i can say is that i wish i had read this thread more thoroughly beyond the glowing sound reviews, as the U16's firmware issues, static and playback problems via HDMI I2S with my other AGD DAC, R2R-R1, is immensely frustrating and just outright deserving of a 1-star rating.  I posted a day or two ago about finding one fixed setting that finally worked with the kind help from others here in this thread... after a system restart, it's now all static again.  I give up on the U16 for now, will hook it up again when Gustard removes their proverbial finger out of their behind and fixes the damn thing.


Hiya!

Thanks for your reply and thoughts..... I hear you. The funny thing is, - I was happy with the F-1 until I plugged in the U-16. (I have had zero problems with the U16: but I certainly can appreciate the fact that others here have, - and I understand their frustrations. I must say that I use the U-16 in a very limited capacity, that would likely cause ZERO of the same issues that most others have. Namely, - I use it with a Sonore ultraRendu and only use SPDIF COAX (RCA) as that's what the digital input of my APL Universal player will accept. And, - there is no capacity for hi-rez). 

I have owned 5 USB to SPDIF converters: the first of which was a pretty good & given to me for free by my Universal Player's designer, way back in 2003.

I also owned the Matrix2, - and it was not nearly in the same league as either the F-1 or the U-16. 

So, - I appreciate all comments regarding comparisons between the SU-6, the F-1 and the U-16. But it would be silly for me, (in my limited use-case), to jump from the U-16 to the triple the price SU-6 without a significant bump in SQ. But, - if the SU-6 is definitely better than the U-16,  - I am going to go for it as I can afford it. Also, - my "mistake" with the Matrix2 does loom up there in the forefront.... what was really a "no-brainer" was the sub-$200 price of the F-1.

 i think that those "glowing" reviews of the U-16 aren't out of line depending on the application that they are being applied. For those of us running SPDIF only, - the F-1, SU-1, Matrix2, - are not even close. Of course, that being said, if I were trying to run i2s, and DSD files, - I would be frustrated. 

I have heard your Audio-GD DAC several times and know it to be an excellent performer and very good value for the money.

Thanks again for your comments.


----------



## Zachik

Anyone compared the U16 vs. U12, especially when using the SPDIF COAX (RCA) out?
I currently own U12, and my DAC (Metrum Amethyst) does not support AES or I2S, so I use Coax only...
Also, 90-95% of my library is FLACs either 44.1/16 or (few) 96/24.  Nothing above 96K or 24bit (and no DSD).

Thanks!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Albrecht said:


> Hiya!
> 
> Thanks for your reply and thoughts..... I hear you. The funny thing is, - I was happy with the F-1 until I plugged in the U-16. (I have had zero problems with the U16: but I certainly can appreciate the fact that others here have, - and I understand their frustrations. I must say that I use the U-16 in a very limited capacity, that would likely cause ZERO of the same issues that most others have. Namely, - I use it with a Sonore ultraRendu and only use SPDIF COAX (RCA) as that's what the digital input of my APL Universal player will accept. And, - there is no capacity for hi-rez).
> 
> ...



I just bought a wireworld UV7 coax cable to use with the U16 / AGD R1 so that i can at least run in the clocks while hoping Gustard fix the I2S.  At least it works now, though not my intended I2S use.  

I can probably do a A/B with the SU-6 using COAX for both my R1 and the Master-11 Singularity in coming weeks and let u know my impressions of how the U16 compares.


----------



## Albrecht

UsoppNoKami said:


> I just bought a wireworld UV7 coax cable to use with the U16 / AGD R1 so that i can at least run in the clocks while hoping Gustard fix the I2S.  At least it works now, though not my intended I2S use.
> 
> I can probably do a A/B with the SU-6 using COAX for both my R1 and the Master-11 Singularity in coming weeks and let u know my impressions of how the U16 compares.


Hi,
That would be most awesome!! Thank you, - and i know that I'm not the only one would look forward to your comparisons. 
Cheers,


----------



## Ludique

Over at audiosciencereview.com people are discussing Gustard X26 and the problems of its usb connection. They have actually gotten an answer from Gustard saying "Currently, the ESS team is working of this Linux audio driver compatibility related issue. If there is an update that can solve this problem, we will contact you as soon as possible."

Is ESS really working on the driver for the chip or or do they mean the ESS team at Gustard, I wonder.


----------



## FredA

Ludique said:


> Over at audiosciencereview.com people are discussing Gustard X26 and the problems of its usb connection. They have actually gotten an answer from Gustard saying "Currently, the ESS team is working of this Linux audio driver compatibility related issue. If there is an update that can solve this problem, we will contact you as soon as possible."
> 
> Is ESS really working on the driver for the chip or or do they mean the ESS team at Gustard, I wonder.


I think they mean the u16 firmware should be fixed so that it works without any issue with  Linux. This would be awesome. I use Volumio, which is Linux-based.


----------



## Ludique (Mar 30, 2019)

FredA said:


> I think they mean the u16 firmware should be fixed so that it works without any issue with  Linux. This would be awesome. I use Volumio, which is Linux-based.



I had the notion ESS doesn't want to be involved with this particular "non recommended" chip anymore.


----------



## FredA

Ludique said:


> I had the notion ESS doesn't want to be involved with this particular "non recommended" chip anymore.


They have to support what they sell... ESS may have specced pefect robustness under linux...


----------



## wwmhf

I double ESS will take any actions, but I really hope it does.


----------



## rafabro

FredA said:


> They have to support what they sell... ESS may have specced pefect robustness under linux...


Exactly. They sell they support


----------



## Ludique (Mar 31, 2019)

Unless ESS has announced that the support has ended and Gustard has bought these chips from a reseller's remaining storage (against advice) because somebody found them to have exceptional sound quality.

That is the story, isn't it?


----------



## Joong

discarding minority and taking in majority is the nature of business.


----------



## motberg

Ludique said:


> Unless ESS has announced that the support has ended and Gustard has bought these chips from a reseller's remaining storage (against advice) because somebody found them to have exceptional sound quality.
> 
> That is the story, isn't it?



Is Gustard using the same ESS U16 chips for their new X26 DAC ?
I heard Volumio the other day in my system with a friends DIY DAC, we did not even tweak it and it sounded great... 
If ESS or Gustard can get these to work with Linux (with proper i2s support for the U16 of course), that could be a possible remedy..


----------



## rafabro

motberg said:


> Is Gustard using the same ESS U16 chips for their new X26 DAC ?



Yes it's same chip.


----------



## rafabro

My U16 after caps replacement


----------



## rafabro

Please notice used transformer 2 x 9V but voltage is summarized and we have AC18V so DC25.2V Used caps are 25V...

From SQ perspective I tested few types (brands and types) but Elna Silmic II is definitely the best IMO. Sound is coherent and more natural then with original Nichicon Muse.
Capacity increase gives more 3D. Because limited space I was able to put 1 x 1000uF + 2 x 470uF. I was testing also 4400 & 4700uF and this would be more optimal but no space inside the case. Unless you go with extension wire. Anyway I am happy with result.


----------



## motberg

rafabro said:


> Yes it's same chip.



Thanks - I think that is good news for us U16 owners with problems, I would hope Gustard takes further development of this ESS chip firmware/drivers seriously in an effort to not further damage their brand image...


----------



## wwmhf

rafabro said:


> My U16 after caps replacement



Thanks for your explorations and for sharing your experiences.


----------



## nazhmd

peteg said:


> I have around 75hrs now and really enjoying the sound I'm getting, less edgy sound around the notes but still has detail. U16 is more analog sounding than my Singxer su-1.
> 
> Now the not so good, when playing 176/192khz I get the dreaded distortion (v1.6/v1.4) so I have the ability to down sample to 96khz which works and sounds good, just a band-aid for now hopefully. All DSD plays fine.
> 
> As mentioned here already disconnecting the power from the USB to the U16 increases SQ. I'm interested in the Singxer su-6 but it has a pretty hefty price.



To be clear just for my understanding, Is the USB input of the U16 internally powered and does not need the +5VUSB feed on the USB cable coming from the PC or laptop.


----------



## peteg

nazhmd said:


> To be clear just for my understanding, Is the USB input of the U16 internally powered and does not need the +5VUSB feed on the USB cable coming from the PC or laptop.


Correct.


----------



## nazhmd

peteg said:


> Correct.


Thanks Peteg


----------



## sanvara (Apr 17, 2019)

rafabro said:


> HiFi Tuning Supreme



Is this the correct one for the U16?

*HiFi SUPREME Cu SLOW SMALL 500mA Fuse*
Product SKU: HiFi SUPREME Cu SLOW SMALL 500mA Fuse


----------



## rafabro

This depends on your voltage. If it's 230-240V 500mA should be fine. But if I was you I would go for 1A. Harder to brake 'without' reason.
I have 3A in my unit.


----------



## anroj

Hi all, I just got my U16 yesterday and have gotten it set up. Currently I do not have an I2S capable DAC (Topping DX7s), so my connection is via S/PDIF. I am upsampling to DSD64 using HQPlayer=>Roon. I have noticed that on 48 kHz-based material I get stuttering and skips; 44.1 kHz-based and native DSD64 material plays without issue. Any ideas or suggestions on how to fix this issue?

Also, I plan to get either the Audio-GD R8 or R2R7 soon and upsample to DSD512. Has anyone had issues with either of those upsampling to DSD512?


----------



## sanvara (Apr 17, 2019)

rafabro said:


> This depends on your voltage. If it's 230-240V 500mA should be fine. But if I was you I would go for 1A. Harder to brake 'without' reason.
> I have 3A in my unit.



 I'm in the US so its the 115v setting. So is the correct fuse the supreme slow and small? And you recommend 1 to 3 amp for 115v or a different version? Thanks.


----------



## anroj

rafabro said:


> Damn good courier! Great!





Whitigir said:


> Wow, I can’t believe they shipped it from China to Us in 2 days ? Free shipping



I got mine delivered in two days as well. DHL Express from China to the US is super fast.


----------



## rafabro

sanvara said:


> I'm in the US so its the 115v setting. So is the correct fuse the supreme slow and small? And you recommend 1 to 3 amp for 115v or a different version? Thanks.


Ya, those will be fine for 115V. Slow.


----------



## bruiselee

Hi,

Just purchased the U16, the seller told me the unit had to undergo some "firmware" tweaks due to people complaining of some issues so they could only send out after the 15th of April.

Anyway now that i gotten it, and it is hooked up to Audio GD master 7 via a random HDMI cable.
And installed the 25th Jan 2019 Drivers, are there any settings that i should be aware of to further improve the sound quality?
Everything else is now at default.


----------



## Alcophone

bruiselee said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just purchased the U16, the seller told me the unit had to undergo some "firmware" tweaks due to people complaining of some issues so they could only send out after the 15th of April.
> 
> ...


Can you check which firmware version is installed now?


----------



## FredA

bruiselee said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just purchased the U16, the seller told me the unit had to undergo some "firmware" tweaks due to people complaining of some issues so they could only send out after the 15th of April.
> 
> ...


Mostly, burn the thing for 150 hours.


----------



## bruiselee

How do I check the firmware version


----------



## motberg

bruiselee said:


> How do I check the firmware version


 IIRC, when you run the firmware update tool it displays the current firmware on the machine.
I would check to make sure your right and left channels not reversed,
Also, check that the display says PSA (for PSAudio setting).. if not you may need push the (I think left side) button on the front panel or change firmware.
I strongly suggest your HDMI cable to have a length of no more than 0.5M, and try to use as good quality cable as possible.
As Fred mentioned above, important to have a suitable burn-in period... and read through as much of this thread as possible if you didn't already.


----------



## DACLadder

And....  lately have better operational service by leaving the U16's power on 24/7.  Not perfect and still get occasional timeout error when switching tracks or 176KHz silence but the issue is usually corrected by restarting the same file's playback.  But for the most part these annoyances are much more rare on the warmed U16.


----------



## phthora

Please excuse what may be a very basic question...

What is the _preferred _way to connect the U16 to a DAC? My long-term goal at the moment is to pair the U16 with the DAC-X26, so I imagine that will be an easy pairing. But, if I can connect it to the Audio-gd 28.38 in the meantime without too much trouble, that would be excellent. I2S seems very confusing, so is there a more plug-and-play option? Thanks.


----------



## Albrecht

phthora said:


> Please excuse what may be a very basic question...
> 
> What is the _preferred _way to connect the U16 to a DAC? My long-term goal at the moment is to pair the U16 with the DAC-X26, so I imagine that will be an easy pairing. But, if I can connect it to the Audio-gd 28.38 in the meantime without too much trouble, that would be excellent. I2S seems very confusing, so is there a more plug-and-play option? Thanks.



Hiya, - I think that you would find that there is no universal preference. I think that the primary goal or purpose the U-16 is to convert the USB IF/Signal to something else. In my case, - SOME kind of USB I/F is required because I have an APL Universal player (and a Sonore ultraRendu that outputs USB): the APL spins any 5 1/4" disk as well as has only a SPDIF COAX/RCA input. This interface cannot run DSD. So the job that I need the U-16 to do is much simpler than others who are running DSD, and/or who may have a DAC that specializes in, or does best with I2s signal. I have definitely been reading here about some folks who've been having issues playing DSD files with I2s with the U-16, - but haven't experienced any myself due to the limited nature in which I run the U-16. 
Cheers,


----------



## rafabro

Albrecht said:


> I think that the primary goal or purpose the U-16 is to convert the USB IF/Signal to something else.



Generally yes, but I2S will be always primary and preferred if possible to connect as is one conversion of signal less then any other standard.


----------



## phthora

Albrecht said:


> Hiya, - I think that you would find that there is no universal preference. I think that the primary goal or purpose the U-16 is to convert the USB IF/Signal to something else. In my case, - SOME kind of USB I/F is required because I have an APL Universal player (and a Sonore ultraRendu that outputs USB): the APL spins any 5 1/4" disk as well as has only a SPDIF COAX/RCA input. This interface cannot run DSD. So the job that I need the U-16 to do is much simpler than others who are running DSD, and/or who may have a DAC that specializes in, or does best with I2s signal. I have definitely been reading here about some folks who've been having issues playing DSD files with I2s with the U-16, - but haven't experienced any myself due to the limited nature in which I run the U-16.
> Cheers,



Thanks for the response! My job for the U16 will likewise be pretty simple, as I listen to almost entirely Red Book FLAC. I was wondering if one type of output was significantly better or worse than the others, and if using SPDIF to the 28.38 in the short-term would be practical.


----------



## motberg

phthora said:


> Please excuse what may be a very basic question...
> 
> What is the _preferred _way to connect the U16 to a DAC? My long-term goal at the moment is to pair the U16 with the DAC-X26, so I imagine that will be an easy pairing. But, if I can connect it to the Audio-gd 28.38 in the meantime without too much trouble, that would be excellent. I2S seems very confusing, so is there a more plug-and-play option? Thanks.


It looks like your dac input #3 is optical SPDIF  and #4 is coax SPDIF... either of those could work well with redbook but with the Gustard firmware things are not always stable. In either case, in my experience the cable quality will matter, probably more so with the optical, so I suggest getting a decent basic coax SPDIF cable and try that. If you happen to have a very high quality optical cable that may work very well also.


----------



## Albrecht

rafabro said:


> Generally yes, but I2S will be always primary and preferred if possible to connect as is one conversion of signal less then any other standard.



Hi, respectfully.... it's contingent on the DAC. There are many great DACs (perhaps some of the greatest) out there that never had, nor ever will, have I2s as a working interface. If you couple that with at least some DAC manufacturers having either a poor USB interface implementation, or an USB interface that doesn't have galvanic isolation, or some of the other elements that many have attested to have improved upon the computer's USB bus.... then an external USB to "whatever" Interface becomes an efficient solution. Indeed it's much easier to replace an external device than to modify or replace a DAC.  Just my opinion.... I still play SACDs and DVD-As. And, - although I have been fortunate enough to have really upgraded my redbook level computer/digital file playback since 2003: SACDs still sound better on my system than the redbook level AIFF file playback that makes up the vast majority of my listening.... YMMV and all that.....   Cheers,


----------



## Albrecht

phthora said:


> Thanks for the response! My job for the U16 will likewise be pretty simple, as I listen to almost entirely Red Book FLAC. I was wondering if one type of output was significantly better or worse than the others, and if using SPDIF to the 28.38 in the short-term would be practical.


I can only tell you that the U-16 blows away the M2Tech HiFace, the Matrix2, the Wyrd4Sound, the BelCanto and even the much respected Singxer F-1, - in my system. 

That being said, the I2s interface simply doesn't work with hi-rez material for many folks here. So, - in that sense, - the SPDIF COAX output is better. That's not to say that once the Firmware issues get fixed, that hi-rez I2s won't work better.......

Cheers,


----------



## phthora

rafabro said:


> Generally yes, but I2S will be always primary and preferred if possible to connect as is one conversion of signal less then any other standard.



Can I just get any old HDMI cable, as long as the pinout arrangements match on the two connected pieces of gear? I am assuming they will match between the DAC-X26 and U16.


----------



## rafabro (Apr 23, 2019)

phthora said:


> Can I just get any old HDMI cable, as long as the pinout arrangements match on the two connected pieces of gear? I am assuming they will match between the DAC-X26 and U16.


Absolutely yes. It will work with any hdmi cable. Gustard stuff works on default settings.
Later on you may consider try higher quality cable but no point spend a lot as what I experience I2S connection is not so cable sensitive.


----------



## motberg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AudioQuest...504974?hash=item569006144e:g:oGUAAOSwUchaAcdE
I noticed this offered as option at MagnaHiFi

lots of suggestions in this thread also..


----------



## DACLadder

I have used a lot HDMI cables and the best advice is to use the shortest cable possible. Total length seems to be the biggest factor when using HDMI cables for I2S. 

The AQ Pearl looks good at 0.6m.  I am currently using a generic, flat 8K HDMI cable at 0.5m length I bought off of Amazon for about $25.  I can definitely hear a difference between a 2m length cable versus 0.5m length of the same cable type.  

You really only need expensive HDMI cable stock if they are required to be very long in length.  That is in hopes of better preserving signal integrity as the clocks traverse the cable from DDC to DAC .So keep them as short as possible for best jitter performance.  As a general rule length 1m or less.

And by all means experiment!  Try different cables!  Just don't over spend.


----------



## JaMo (Apr 24, 2019)

I am using this one (0,5m). :  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MOS...312.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3da24c4d54wfpY

Worked so well that I bought one more. I am now running two U16's  on 1.4 PSA I2S firmware. No issues or hickups, just beautiful music..

/Jan


----------



## phthora

DACLadder said:


> I have used a lot HDMI cables and the best advice is to use the shortest cable possible. Total length seems to be the biggest factor when using HDMI cables for I2S.
> 
> The AQ Pearl looks good at 0.6m.  I am currently using a generic, flat 8K HDMI cable at 0.5m length I bought off of Amazon for about $25.  I can definitely hear a difference between a 2m length cable versus 0.5m length of the same cable type.
> 
> ...



Don't overspend? Wait a minute, I thought this was Head-Fi?  

Thanks for the advice and recs! I think I'll go with a Pangea HDMI cable, since my other cables are Pangea. They seem like a good value and they look nice.


----------



## batfier

motberg said:


> Thanks - I think that is good news for us U16 owners with problems,* I would hope Gustard takes further development of this ESS chip firmware/drivers seriously in an effort to not further damage their brand image..*.



Unfortunally it seems Gustard does NOT take further development or even fixing existing issues seriously at all!

More than 3 month ago I had an email exchange with Gustard support. They asked me, if I could do some testing and I investested some time and did it:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...ing-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-32#post-14738080

Since then, silence.... No further reaction, no answer, no firmware, nothing...

This is quite unprofessional and this is the image I (and other) have from Gustard brand.

I'm tired of the unreliable nature of the U16. 

Therefore some month ago a switched back to SU-1 (Magna edition) which works flawless and offers for me the same sound quality.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

DACLadder said:


> I have used a lot HDMI cables and the best advice is to use the shortest cable possible. Total length seems to be the biggest factor when using HDMI cables for I2S.
> 
> The AQ Pearl looks good at 0.6m.  I am currently using a generic, flat 8K HDMI cable at 0.5m length I bought off of Amazon for about $25.  I can definitely hear a difference between a 2m length cable versus 0.5m length of the same cable type.
> 
> ...



Overall, I have personally seen less issues with I2S RJ45 vs HDMI when using relatilvely longer length cables on RJ45 (have tried up to 0.75m, tho i use a monoprice cat-8 enterprise 0.3m cable now for one of my DACs that needs RJ45 I2S). 

For HDMI I2S, best results I have seen in terms of reliability / consistency is 0.3m length.  I have a wireworld chroma 7 in that 1 foot length that has been absolutely rock solid on my SU-6, whereas a higher end wireworld ultraviolet 7 in 0.6m length did stutter once in a blue moon


----------



## UsoppNoKami

batfier said:


> Unfortunally it seems Gustard does NOT take further development or even fixing existing issues seriously at all!
> 
> More than 3 month ago I had an email exchange with Gustard support. They asked me, if I could do some testing and I investested some time and did it:
> 
> ...



1.5 months ago, Shenzen Audio support told me to wait for next Gustard U16 firmware to fix the I2S problems i was having with my AGD R2R-R1. 

2 weeks ago, i asked again, and the reply was basically Gustard saying, go ask your DAC manufacturer for a new firmware. 

Singxer SU-6 - HDMI I2S - R1 = flawless in every sample rate and DSD. 

so....

gustard (I2S) is busted :/


----------



## rafabro

DACLadder said:


> I have used a lot HDMI cables and the best advice is to use the shortest cable possible. Total length seems to be the biggest factor when using HDMI cables for I2S.



My experience can't confirm that. 0.3m wireworld cable was only cable that length and was the worst I tested. Other much better was 0.6 & 1 (never tried longer than 1.5m).
For me the rule is same as for any other cable. Important is good quality conductor, geometry and insulators.


----------



## Aurion

Chopin75 said:


> So AES can do 24/192. Is the issue with Hi-Res/DSD mainly with I2S? Has anyone sucessfully played DSD256 via I2S?



I am playing DSD 11.28 MHz D256 from JRiver Media Center 25 (DoP 256 4X 1Bit 2 Channel) to my Gustard U16 I2S thru to Holo Audio Cyan. I tried to play the same thru Roon, however stuttering on anything higher than D128. Must be a better renderer in JRiver than Roon. On the other hand I cannot detect a difference in sound quality between D128 and D256 when played in either JRiver or Roon, respectively.
Gustard U16 and Holo Audio Cyan have a beautiful synergy, whether played back through my HD650 headphone, or Vanatoo Transparent One speakers. The timber, resolution, and overall quality is the best I've heard on this Hades Canyon i5 NUC. This is a very satisfying desktop system, even without oversampling via software, or the Cyan.


----------



## motberg

rafabro said:


> My experience can't confirm that. 0.3m wireworld cable was only cable that length and was the worst I tested. Other much better was 0.6 & 1 (never tried longer than 1.5m).
> For me the rule is same as for any other cable. Important is good quality conductor, geometry and insulators.



My experience with Wireworld Ultraviolet 6.0 0.3M and Starlight 6 0.3M has been satisfactory. 
Starlight 6 at 1M , no dropouts but seemed a little incoherent at times (but that may have been expectation bias).  
Starlight 7 at 0.5M did not work at all with direction reversed  but plays well and actually seemed more detailed* than the Silversonic 0.5M it replaced after I figured out it was directional (*this was a big surprise as I have never heard a substantial difference between similar length i2s cables previously).

0.3M may be difficult to work with, the WW cables especially are stiff...


----------



## Albrecht

Aurion said:


> I am playing DSD 11.28 MHz D256 from JRiver Media Center 25 (DoP 256 4X 1Bit 2 Channel) to my Gustard U16 I2S thru to Holo Audio Cyan. I tried to play the same thru Roon, however stuttering on anything higher than D128. Must be a better renderer in JRiver than Roon. On the other hand I cannot detect a difference in sound quality between D128 and D256 when played in either JRiver or Roon, respectively.
> Gustard U16 and Holo Audio Cyan have a beautiful synergy, whether played back through my HD650 headphone, or Vanatoo Transparent One speakers. The timber, resolution, and overall quality is the best I've heard on this Hades Canyon i5 NUC. This is a very satisfying desktop system, even without oversampling via software, or the Cyan.



Hi, sorry to go way off topic....  attached is my flame point rat-fink named Poom.


----------



## peteg

My U16 is up for sale.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-gustard-u16-ddc.905474/


----------



## henkeman

peteg said:


> My U16 is up for sale.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-gustard-u16-ddc.905474/


 How does su6 compare against u16 sound wise, also what is your source?


----------



## peteg

The U16 can sound very good but the SU-6 edges it out, especially with transparency. I'm using a Denafrips terminator dac.


----------



## henkeman

Thx for sharing, I meant what is your source before su6. Also did you have a power conditioner to the u16 power cord?How do you feed power to the su6?


----------



## peteg

henkeman said:


> Thx for sharing, I meant what is your source before su6. Also did you have a power conditioner to the u16 power cord?How do you feed power to the su6?


Lumin U1 mini is the source, no power conditioner. DIY PC to SU-6 from a power strip.


----------



## DACLadder

I'm warming up to trying a SU-6.  Uses same Windows driver as the SU-1/F1. I have two F1s and and a SU-1 and they are flawless in operation.


----------



## sanvara (Apr 28, 2019)

rafabro said:


> HiFi Tuning Supreme



Thanks for the recommendation. Bought a 1A HFT Supreme fuse that had been burned in for 300+ hours and it definitely improved the sound quality. I never imagined a fuse would do this until I read this thread, It was well worth the $50. My Elac Navis speakers have never sounded better. U16 with HFT Supreme fuse, Pangea Premier HDMI cable and LKS DA004 have great synergy with the Navis.

Now I want to upgrade the power cord. Anyone have recommendations for the U16 here? Maybe $50 range?


----------



## jimmychan

DACLadder said:


> I'm warming up to trying a SU-6.  Uses same Windows driver as the SU-1/F1. I have two F1s and and a SU-1 and they are flawless in operation.


Looking forward to see the differences between U16 & SU6.
Thanks,


----------



## rafabro

sanvara said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. Bought a 1A HFT Supreme fuse that had been burned in for 300+ hours and it definitely improved the sound quality. I never imagined a fuse would do this until I read this thread, It was well worth the $50. My Elac Navis speakers have never sounded better. U16 with HFT Supreme fuse, Pangea Premier HDMI cable and LKS DA004 have great synergy with the Navis.
> 
> Now I want to upgrade the power cord. Anyone have recommendations for the U16 here? Maybe $50 range?


I'm afraid it wont be so cheap with cables to have good result 

In my system Furutech S032 cable on U16 worked well. Better than Acrolink and black DH Labs I also tried on it. But each system has different needs.

The best if you can borrow or rent few and try.


----------



## jimmychan

There is a jumper J35 inside.
Is there any function for this jumper?
I heard that the new shipments has taken out this jumper.
Any body  has any comments?


----------



## DBMan

I recently acquired a Gustard U16 to complement my Gustard A20H DAC/headphone amp.  I needed to move the J35 jumper within the U16 in order to obtain compatibility for DSD playback over I2S with Gustard's A20H.  The need to make this jumper change was relayed by Gustard support and did resolve this compatibility issue.


----------



## Criable

DBMan said:


> I recently acquired a Gustard U16 to complement my Gustard A20H DAC/headphone amp. I needed to move the J35 jumper within the U16 in order to obtain compatibility for DSD playback over I2S with Gustard's A20H. The need to make this jumper change was relayed by Gustard support and did resolve this compatibility issue.



Hi DBMan, 

When you say move the J35 jumper - do you mean remove it altogether? 
I do have problems with DSD playback on my SOTM streamer - therefore am thinking if this jumper is the culprit

Thanks


----------



## Ludique

There are two jumpers, J35, which is on or off (mine is on), then the dsd flag jumper behind hdmi, which has three positions.


----------



## DBMan

Criable said:


> Hi DBMan,
> 
> When you say move the J35 jumper - do you mean remove it altogether?
> I do have problems with DSD playback on my SOTM streamer - therefore am thinking if this jumper is the culprit
> ...



You don't remove the J35 jumper - but reposition it.  In my stock configuration, the two-pin J35 jumper was attached to only one pin, thus the associated circuit was open. When you move the J35 jumper, it will short the two pins together and close the circuit.  It is akin to the old CMOS clear jumper on PC motherboards.

I wrote to Gustard to ask about the electrical function of the J35 jumper, but they are on holiday for two days.  Gustard did send me a procedure for taking apart the U16 to access the jumper.  If you need it, send me a pm with your email address,


----------



## Monolithic

Criable said:


> Hi DBMan,
> 
> When you say move the J35 jumper - do you mean remove it altogether?
> I do have problems with DSD playback on my SOTM streamer - therefore am thinking if this jumper is the culprit
> ...



If you're running linux on the SOtM streamer, the U16 is not properly recognized by the OS for DSD playback.  SOtM is working on a fix.  I would look for an update in the next Eunhasu release after v4.59.  

If changing the J35 jumper provides a solution, please post your results.


----------



## Criable

Monolithic said:


> SOtM is working on a fix. I would look for an update in the next Eunhasu release after v4.59


Was in contact with May - 4.59 was suppose to be the fix - it didn’t work. May went radio silent after that. Thought of looking elsewhere for solving this. Will probably try the procedure out and update the  group here.


----------



## Monolithic

Criable said:


> Was in contact with May - 4.59 was suppose to be the fix - it didn’t work. May went radio silent after that. Thought of looking elsewhere for solving this. Will probably try the procedure out and update the  group here.



Recently, they were busy preparing for and attending AXPONA in Chicago.  I'm assuming it will take another couple of weeks or so for a release.


----------



## DBMan (May 3, 2019)

I received the following information from Gustard technical support with regard to the J35 jumper on the U16:

_1.The J35 will not be eliminated. 
2.The electrical function of this J35 jumper :

Mainly the frequency of the mclk signal in the iis interface, when the j35 is setting, it is 22/24 MHz, and when it is open, it is 90/98 MHz. When A20H is using input with IIS, MCLK is fixed at a frequency of 22M or 24M. Therefore, when connecting U16, you need to plug the J35 jumper inside U16._

The reference to the A20H is the Gustard A20H DAC.


----------



## henkeman

rafabro said:


> My experience can't confirm that. 0.3m wireworld cable was only cable that length and was the worst I tested. Other much better was 0.6 & 1 (never tried longer than 1.5m).
> For me the rule is same as for any other cable. Important is good quality conductor, geometry and insulators.


Considering buying AQ Carbon, which length did you try? Worth it, yes, no?


----------



## rafabro

I own 0.6m Carbon. I like it and used to use for long time. 
But not so long time ago (couple months) I was advised to try YYaudio silver platted copper OCC cable. And it's amazing cable! Is cheaper than AQ Carbon and definitely better  
Great deal which I recommend because is not just more detailed and spacious but is even more musical in same time.


----------



## henkeman

Thanks for the tip! I will try it, I guess it is this one? https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32846982223.html

Did you get 1m?


----------



## rafabro

I mean USB https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sil...?spm=a2g17.10010108.1000001.12.148b7d69EpvnQX
1m


----------



## henkeman

Aha, I thougth you had the AQ carbon must have got it wrong or remembered it wrong. 
Nice price on the USB though might grab one anyways!


----------



## motberg

batfier said:


> Unfortunally it seems Gustard does NOT take further development or even fixing existing issues seriously at all!
> 
> More than 3 month ago I had an email exchange with Gustard support. They asked me, if I could do some testing and I investested some time and did it:
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking the time for that detailed analysis. I was really hoping for some sign of Gustard firmware development... especially after all the input given to them by customers.
It is interesting that for computer audio related stuff, continual software related development appears to be a critical attribute.
I sold a U16 yesterday, hope it works OK for the buyer 
Also removed the new Gustard X26 DAC from my "possible next DAC list".


----------



## frizzup

Can one of you folks that have replaced the fuse in the U16 tell/show me where the fuse is located. I tried opening the case from teh back and carefully slid out the main board as far as teh front ribbon connect would allow but could not see a fuse/holder anywhere.

Also if you want to chnage caps on this unit how do your remove the mainboard completely, the front ribbon seem too short to achieve this?

Hope you can assist?


Frizzup


----------



## darren700

frizzup said:


> Can one of you folks that have replaced the fuse in the U16 tell/show me where the fuse is located. I tried opening the case from teh back and carefully slid out the main board as far as teh front ribbon connect would allow but could not see a fuse/holder anywhere.
> 
> Also if you want to chnage caps on this unit how do your remove the mainboard completely, the front ribbon seem too short to achieve this?
> 
> ...



Frizzup,
See image below, use a flathead screwdriver to pull out the fuse holder by removing power cord and prying the fuse bracket out where the arrow in pointing.
Change the fuse and push the bracket back in.
Hope this helps


----------



## frizzup

darren700 said:


> Frizzup,
> See image below, use a flathead screwdriver to pull out the fuse holder by removing power cord and prying the fuse bracket out where the arrow in pointing.
> Change the fuse and push the bracket back in.
> Hope this helps


Thanks Darren, now looking for a face/palm emoji


----------



## Sage Encore

Hi Frizzup,
What is your choice of fuse? I usually use SR, and all of the fuses gear in my system is using SR, but decided to give the Furutech a shot, it's ok but I have to get a SR to hear the difference. I don't want to speculate here, but the Furutech sounds a tad bright, not by much though. Do let us know. Thank you buddy.


----------



## Ludique

Just about anything with rhodium plating will sound a bit bright in my opinion. Cardas cables are an exception.


----------



## Whitigir

So, do we have any news that this may be able to process DSD1024 ? Or not really


----------



## lucianpescaru (May 13, 2019)

Just ordered a unit through fleabay in Europe, should be here in a week or so. Will be feeding a LITE DAC 83 through AES/EBU and an Gustard X22 through HDMI IIS.

Downloaded the driver and the 1.61 firmware. From reading I understood this must be plugged in an USB 2 port. Anything else I need to know?

This might replace a modded Singxer SU1  (just increased capacitance before the regs and switched Panasonic to Nichicon KA).

Will let you know guys how it goes.


----------



## bruiselee

Found some other settings that are not mentioned in the manual. 

1. Long hold on right side button, to alternate between 0db and std

2. Left long hold to alternate between psa, gsd, lks, holo, lrck. 

Anyone can enlighten me on what are the differences? 

Besides, currently it is showing as PCM 48 KHZ. 
Is it suppose to be showing just 48khz?


----------



## DACLadder (May 14, 2019)

@bruiselee The button functions were added with the latest firmware releases (1.58, 1.61, etc).  PSA, HOLO, etc... configure the HDMI I2S output for the various implied DAC manufacturers.  0dB and Std.affect the output volume - 0dB is fixed level, Std allows a player to throttle volume by way of the U16.  Generally 0dB is preferred.

"PCM 48kHz" is just reflecting what is being fed in on the USB port.  You will see either "PCM" or "DSD" plus the sampling rates on the display.  Nice feature that the Singxers do not have.  My U16 defaults to PCM 44.1kHz when powered on and no USB cable connected.


----------



## bruiselee

I see. 

So, if I'm using a audio gd master 7, which i be using ideally?

And if I'm using it connected to my computer,
Is showing PCM 48 KHZ normal? Can I change it to dsd?


----------



## DACLadder

@bruiselee  Set the U16 to "PSA" for Audio GD DACs.

Before we can help you tell us what do you have connected to the U16 USB port and what are you using for a player?  The U16 front panel display's mode and sampling rate just reflects what the U16 thinks is coming as USB audio.  The U16 will not convert, resample, or transcode files.  In other words it will not convert PCM to DSD.


----------



## bruiselee

so my set up is ..

Computer >  U16 > Audio GD Master 7.

i tried using itunes or foobar to play my flac files, doesnt seem to change anything though.


----------



## rafabro

bruiselee said:


> I see.
> 
> So, if I'm using a audio gd master 7, which i be using ideally?
> 
> ...


Frequency depends on music file format you have. Buy music in DSD and then you will have DSD


----------



## jimmychan

You should use v1.41 firmware for M7 to work properly for all frequency. 

Gustard seems not paying efforts to finish their firmware for the customers. V1.61 still got lots of problems.


----------



## lucianpescaru (May 20, 2019)

bruiselee said:


> Found some other settings that are not mentioned in the manual.
> 1. Long hold on right side button, to alternate between 0db and std
> 2. Left long hold to alternate between psa, gsd, lks, holo, lrck.



Well, received the package from a fleabay seller in DE, everything is okay they put an extra box to keep the original safe. Changed I2s setting to GSD, I can listen to DSD64 (SACD) on my Gustard X22 without any problems, also 44.1, 88.2, 96 frequencies work without any hitch on both the LITE 83 DAC on AES/EBU and I2s on the Gustard DAC. That's all I care for, I can watch movies/concerts without any delay in sound, overall I'm happy. The X22 does even 24/384k without any problems on my test file. I only have one 

Already clearer than my slightly modded SU-1.

So to resume for CD flac, 24/96 and DSD64 it works okay.


----------



## Criable

Hi all,

Anyone got any updates/ news from Gustard regarding the new firmware. 
Emailed them - but nothing, no reply - complete silent. I am beginning to think they had abandoned this product already.


----------



## Ludique

We are assuming there is a solution for the firmware problems. Maybe there isn't. Maybe ESS has always known there isn't, Gustard knows there isn't, we just don't know. Yet.


----------



## JaMo (May 23, 2019)

Ludique said:


> We are assuming there is a solution for the firmware problems. Maybe there isn't. Maybe ESS has always known there isn't, Gustard knows there isn't, we just don't know. Yet.



Hi,
I don't buy that. Ess doesn't support this application of this "soundbar-chip".That we know. Gustard must have known this from the start. Gustard has achieved functions for most formats, sample rates and DSD...but not in the same firmware. In my case I only use I2S via HDMI so I am fine with the "1.4 PSA IIS". It is annoying that it doesn't output useful signals on the RCA/BNC.
It is definately "beta" behaving at this moment and Gustard will kill their reputation if they don't address this. They cannot afford to have too many disappointed customers out here. Their job is just to wrap/consolidate the full functions into a 2.0 fw. I read somewhere (internet surfing a few weeks ago..) that an attempt of this should be started this summer (Q2/Q3 2019).

I will keep my hope and suggest You others also to do that. The u16 is far too good to let go. We should all harass Gustard support with this subject until they make this to their priority.
The guys at Gustard are skilled, no doubt, they just need "our help" with this priority..

/Jan


----------



## UsoppNoKami

JaMo said:


> Hi,
> I don't buy that. Ess doesn't support this application of this "soundbar-chip".That we know. Gustard must have known this from the start. Gustard has achieved functions for most formats, sample rates and DSD...but not not in the same firmware. In my case I only use I2S via HDMI so I am fine with the "1.4 PSA IIS". It is annoying that it doesn't output useful signals on the RCA/BNC.
> It is definately "beta" behaving at this moment and Gustard will kill their reputation if they don't address this. They cannot afford to have too many disappointed customers out here. Their job is just to wrap/consolidate the full functions into a 2.0 fw. I read somewhere (internet surfing a few weeks ago..) that an attempt of this should be started this summer (Q2/Q3 2019).
> 
> ...



I tried very hard to tell myself it is worth it, the sound from Gustard I2S was worth the drop outs, static, hard reboots... 

Then I realised I wasn't enjoying the music and just anticipating the next episode of static to rip the headphones off my head. 

I contacted Shenzen Audio to enquire about new firmware about 2 weeks ago, just the usual 'Gustard is working on it'. 

Singxer SU-6 is my saviour. Bye Gustard


----------



## JaMo

UsoppNoKami said:


> I tried very hard to tell myself it is worth it, the sound from Gustard I2S was worth the drop outs, static, hard reboots...
> 
> Then I realised I wasn't enjoying the music and just anticipating the next episode of static to rip the headphones off my head.
> 
> ...



That  sounds really bad. I have a flawless function on raspberry Pi3B+ (Linux PiCoreplayer). Excellent sound on every formats. Rock solid stabilty. 

/Jan


----------



## anroj

When I initially got my U16, I had issues, but it has settled down and now performing great. No reboots, pops or clicks on my Intel i7 NUC with Topping DX7s, connected via AES. I have an Audio-GD coming so it will be interesting to see if I have any issues with the I2S connection. Kingwa suggested v1.4 works best with the R8, so I will follow his advice.


----------



## Toni-Mang

Interesting that the recommendation is 1.4 and o8...i am on 1.61 and o4 and have no issues at all, IIS to the R8 and coax to the Master 11 Nos...only redbook and some 192er Files, no DSD at all...no upsampling from the source...it has sattled in, i was sceptical before, now i am really happy, to give it a try in the long run.
Not as good as the transport but way better than amanero isolated...


----------



## anroj

Thank you for the response. I don't know if Kingwa's recommendation was due to the fact that I listen primarily to DSD, but I will verify with him, as I am also on v1.61 and it is stable, although with my current DAC, I can't test I2S.


----------



## JaMo (May 22, 2019)

Guys,

Take a look at page 32 posts: 471, 472 and 474 in this thread. 
Link: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...ing-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-32#post-14738080 

The forum member @batfier has done an excellent job by testing out what works and not in the present u16 firmwares.

It guides very well to chose the right fw-level/version for Your needs. (Again: -Thanks @batfier !)

Jan


----------



## Toni-Mang

Thank you very much for the link, very helpful. V3a and r7 are imho not 100% comparable with R8 and TDAasy (the Master clock theme),  i.e.i have the magnificat (Schütz) file in 24/192 with 1.61 IIS and the R8, or coax to the Master 11 NOS, i have no distortion...but the matrix done by @batfier is a perfect support!


----------



## anroj

That is a very comprehensive list of U16 firmware versions and settings. It looks like for DSD256 the most stable firmware version is v1.4.


----------



## Criable

UsoppNoKami said:


> I contacted Shenzen Audio to enquire about new firmware about 2 weeks ago, just the usual 'Gustard is working on it'.



Thanks UsoppNoKami for reporting this. Another forumer did mentioned that he asked twice and got 2 different response. 1st response was that they (Gustard) are working on it. 2nd response was abit disturbing - they wanted the user to contact the dac manufacturer for resolving compatibility issues. That led me to think that they have abandon ship. 

Hope they really come back fast on this. Has been too long.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Criable said:


> Thanks UsoppNoKami for reporting this. Another forumer did mentioned that he asked twice and got 2 different response. 1st response was that they (Gustard) are working on it. 2nd response was abit disturbing - they wanted the user to contact the dac manufacturer for resolving compatibility issues. That led me to think that they have abandon ship.
> 
> Hope they really come back fast on this. Has been too long.



Hi, they did ask me to ask my DAC manufacturer to fix the issues in an earlier email. But seeing as AudioGD works flawlessly on I2S with the PS Audio settings on any of the Singxers including my SU-6, this endless stream of nonsense is firmly in Gustard's court to fix


----------



## anroj

jimmychan said:


> You should use v1.41 firmware for M7 to work properly for all frequency.
> 
> Gustard seems not paying efforts to finish their firmware for the customers. V1.61 still got lots of problems.



Hi jimmychan/all. I just got my Audio-GD R8 today and am having issues getting it to play via my GustardU16. I am on v1.4 but I don't get anything to change when I long press the "OSCSEL" button to change to the correct setting for Audio-GD devices. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?


----------



## motberg

I have not seen any other more qualified suggestions so here are a few:
I think this is the correct firmware that is recommended
GU16V1_4_PSA_0db_PS_Audio_I2S.rom
iirc, this version you do not need set the front panel button to PSA (that is only enabled in later versions?)
use a short (0.5M) good quality HDMI cable, make sure to shut down both the DAC and U16 before plugging/unplugging the HDMI cable
Make sure the DAC is set to the correct input 
Try different sample rates - keep the volume low as you may get some digital hash at some rates.


----------



## anroj

That worked! Thank you so much. I am able to get DSD512!


----------



## motberg

Great! let us know how it sounds after some break-in time


----------



## jimmychan

anroj said:


> Hi jimmychan/all. I just got my Audio-GD R8 today and am having issues getting it to play via my GustardU16. I am on v1.4 but I don't get anything to change when I long press the "OSCSEL" button to change to the correct setting for Audio-GD devices. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?



No switch setting is need for V1.4 with Audio-gd DAC.
The switch only works for V1.61 so far.


----------



## DACLadder

My PCM life with the U16 has much improved since using the ASIO driver with buffer setting of 512 samples for 44.1Khz (Win 10).  Still has a few idiosyncrasies but the amount constant operational issues reduces dramatically and very rare.  Used 1.4 psa firmware for months but have recently been using 1.61.

The U16 sound quality is superb with the recently upgraded Audio GD R7 and S7 DACs.  And like it even more than a month old Singxer SU-6.  The U16 is more liquid but the SU-6 is very good and still running in.


----------



## sumpao

Hi guy I am a new user here 

I use U16 with audio gd r28 

It kind of I cannot play dsd with this and don't know what to do.

I try u16 manual it not make it.

I use firmware v 1.61 and kind of confuse on setting 

somebody can enlight me?

I use Jriver 24 and set as follow  
1. Playback : gustard u16 asio
2. DSP : None

When I try to set dsp to dop dsd it fail said asio not available


----------



## Toni-Mang

As mentioned a few rows above, 1,4 psa might be worth a test...and IIS or coax?


----------



## anroj

motberg said:


> Great! let us know how it sounds after some break-in time


So far so good. I have not done any serious listening since getting the U16 v1.4PSA firmware upgrade figured out, but I did have to sit down a couple of times because the music was just too inviting not to give an initial listen. My first observations are of a very fluid presentation. The midrange and treble are really clear and instruments and vocals have nice air and space around them, front-to-back, and side-to-side. The bass is a little loose on some types of music, but I expect that to fall in line as things get burned in more. I'm very happy with my purchase, although I'm sure my wife is not going to like the amount of time I spend in my listening room.


----------



## jimmychan

DACLadder said:


> My PCM life with the U16 has much improved since using the ASIO driver with buffer setting of 512 samples for 44.1Khz (Win 10).  Still has a few idiosyncrasies but the amount constant operational issues reduces dramatically and very rare.  Used 1.4 psa firmware for months but have recently been using 1.61.
> 
> The U16 sound quality is superb with the recently upgraded Audio GD R7 and S7 DACs.  And like it even more than a month old Singxer SU-6.  The U16 is more liquid but the SU-6 is very good and still running in.



I once had SU 1, SU 6 and U16. I found U16 is better for R7 and Reference 1. I sold the SU-1 and SU-6 and only keep two U16.


----------



## jazzbug

I have been following Singxer SU6, and I saw the forum talking about Gustard U16 and I'm really interested. 
I want i2S to PS Audio DSD DAC, just wondering if the Gustard U16 i2S output complies with PS DSD? Any forumner's experience please...


----------



## Toni-Mang

@jazzbug - No direct PSA DSD expirience, but It should.
it has the same IIS behavior (and so pin config) as my PS Audio PWT...using an R8 from Audio GD.


----------



## anroj

+1. I'm also using a U16 with my Audio-GD R8 with firmware v1.4PSA, which Kingwa recommends. If you are on one of the later firmware versions (1.61) you can toggle the left button by pressing and holding it down for the various supported DACs via I2S.


----------



## Albrecht

DACLadder said:


> My PCM life with the U16 has much improved since using the ASIO driver with buffer setting of 512 samples for 44.1Khz (Win 10).  Still has a few idiosyncrasies but the amount constant operational issues reduces dramatically and very rare.  Used 1.4 psa firmware for months but have recently been using 1.61.
> 
> The U16 sound quality is superb with the recently upgraded Audio GD R7 and S7 DACs.  And like it even more than a month old Singxer SU-6.  The U16 is more liquid but the SU-6 is very good and still running in.


Thank you very much for your comparison of the U16 with the SU-6. I am very curious to know how the SU-6 will compare after some run-in time has passed. Please keep us updated. (I only use the U16 with simple SPDIF, and I've not ever touched it since Day 1). All i know is that it is significantly better than the F-1 and the Matrix-2. But if the SU-6 turns out to be a significant set up from the Gustard, - I'm there. Have you also upgraded the power supply on the SU-6?


----------



## PLGA

Hello guys
I have the Gustard U16 connected with a 0.5m HDMI cable to my R8. 
I listen to all of my music streaming Tidal PCM 44.1 kHz and my U16 has PS Audio 1.4 firmware and the sound is superb. 
When I got the U16 (about 2 month ago) it played smoothly all the time, but now when I start playing music, at the begining of the day, it makes something like pink noise or static.
I have to restart it, or change from Asio driver to Wasapi or viceversa in my Notebook, or restart Audinirvana several times to get it work. 
Once it starts to play music with out noise, it continues that way all the time until I Turn it of. 
Does anyone of you have a similar problem?


----------



## anroj

PLGA said:


> Hello guys
> I have the Gustard U16 connected with a 0.5m HDMI cable to my R8.
> I listen to all of my music streaming Tidal PCM 44.1 kHz and my U16 has PS Audio 1.4 firmware and the sound is superb.
> When I got the U16 (about 2 month ago) it played smoothly all the time, but now when I start playing music, at the begining of the day, it makes something like pink noise or static.
> ...


I don’t have that exact issue but I am using the v1.4PSA firmware and I get popping and cracking sounds when playing DSD512. I was initially able to play DSD512 with my R8, but now I get the noise. I experimented by trying DSD256 and it plays perfectly.


----------



## Toni-Mang (May 30, 2019)

@PLGA what is the firmware on the R8? V3A? Sync on or off? What happens, if you change input 4 IIS to 5 and back to 4?


----------



## jazzbug

Seegs108 said:


> At this point it's just an annoyance for me. For $300 this thing has no right to sound as good as it does. So I'm willing to put up with some of these quirks. To give you some context, I sold my Sonore Signature Series Rendu last year ($2900 MSRP) and while the sound signature of each of these devices is different, I find the U16 sounds just as good as that device in most ways. The Sonore SSR sounded a bit cleaner than this device (probably due to its overkill power supply), but the U16 sounds smoother and more musical to my ears. I'm hoping they fix the driver issues, but as it stands now I'm definitely going to keep my U16



Hi Seegs108,
I went through this topic and understood you pair U16 with you PS DSD DAC. 
Would you please advise if the U16 works for WAV/FLAC/24192/DSD128 HiRez on I2S to PS DSD so far? Or is it still buggy? 
Is it channel swapped/phase polarity issue on DSD, and the HDMI pin 15 covered still? - for this issue I have exactly the same with another product of Aune S5. The pre emphasis flag on PS DSD unless HDMI p15 covered. And then DSD polarity is totally wrong. The manufacturer's tech just keeps ignore my request of fixing the issue. 

I'd like to opt for U16 than SU6 for the price and SQ, unless U16 is no buggy above... 
Thx ahead


----------



## Seegs108

jazzbug said:


> Hi Seegs108,
> I went through this topic and understood you pair U16 with you PS DSD DAC.
> Would you please advise if the U16 works for WAV/FLAC/24192/DSD128 HiRez on I2S to PS DSD so far? Or is it still buggy?
> Is it channel swapped/phase polarity issue on DSD, and the HDMI pin 15 covered still? - for this issue I have exactly the same with another product of Aune S5. The pre emphasis flag on PS DSD unless HDMI p15 covered. And then DSD polarity is totally wrong. The manufacturer's tech just keeps ignore my request of fixing the issue.
> ...



As far as I can tell the only issue was the pre-emphasis flag sent if pin 15 wasn't covered. I have no issues with PCM up to 24/192 and double rate DSD.


----------



## PLGA

Toni-Mang said:


> @PLGA what is the firmware on the R8? V3A? Sync on or off? What happens, if you change input 4 IIS to 5 and back to 4?



Hello Toni
I have V3A firmware with Sync off (0 value) and OSx8. 
Nevertheless, yesterday I changed the clocks to Accusilicons and I placed the V2 boards and the problem got solved, unless for now. The U16 works perfectly, just like it did before. 
By the way, I've been listening only a few hours with Accusilicons and V2 boards and I cannot believe the sound! Incredible! I will post my impressions on the R7/R8 thread this weekend, after giving it some more hours of listening, but Im amazed by the sound quality.


----------



## Toni-Mang

Perfect, that sounds promissing! I´m waiting for the V2 Boards...the Clocks are already in. After some reservation about the u16, i really like it.


----------



## MrCypruz

I've been on the fence to get the Gustard U16 USB interface for quite sometime mainly because of all the reported firmware issues but I think I'll take the plunge with this Massdrop/Drop drop at $260 - https://drop.com/buy/gustard-u16-usb-digital-interface


----------



## Jabba

I have connected the u16 to a Mac with audirvana, then by toslink to parasound d/ac1500.
Using Tidal, all hifi files sound excellent.
But I have issues with MQA, I get no sound at all.
Tried to set audirvana to Max 96khz and 24 bit, and non  MQA compatible  dac
Still no sound.
With Chromecast to dac I have no problem with MQA.
Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Asimov-kln

Hi
I am going to have my unit day after tomorrow.
I have 230 volt local voltage.
Is there any toggle switch there to change the voltage in between 115v and 230v?
Please let me know how to select the 230v.
Thanks


----------



## FredA

Asimov-kln said:


> Hi
> I am going to have my unit day after tomorrow.
> I have 230 volt local voltage.
> Is there any toggle switch there to change the voltage in between 115v and 230v?
> ...


Very easy. On the left side of the on/off rocker switch, there is a sliding switch indicating the selected voltage. Slide it to the opposite direction using a flat screwdriver if the wrong voltage is selected. See this picture :

https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/10205397.jpeg


----------



## JaMo (Jun 26, 2019)

Asimov-kln said:


> Hi
> I am going to have my unit day after tomorrow.
> I have 230 volt local voltage.
> Is there any toggle switch there to change the voltage in between 115v and 230v?
> ...



Hi,
I  don't think we have a problem. The Gustard guys seems to check where to deliver  and what power (voltage) situation rules. If it is wrong anyway... make sure the fuse is suffient for the job.
This matter is addressed earlier in this thread but. 230V @ 15 watts requires a fuse of 65 mA but should have a margin.. so 100 mA slow blow will work fine.
The 115V setting will need 130mA fuse and with a decent margin the value should be 150 to 200 or even 250 mA, slow blow, You are well protected.

Some of us wants to squeeze out more performance and higher values are then selected. This causes "fuse elimination" which means "fuse role out of function". Gear will be burned out and be bricked.
I stay on healthy fuses.
Jan


----------



## Asimov-kln

FredA said:


> Very easy. On the left side of the on/off rocker switch, there is a sliding switch indicating the selected voltage. Slide it to the opposite direction using a flat screwdriver if the wrong voltage is selected. See this picture :
> 
> https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/10205397.jpeg



 Yeah! Seems very easy. Thanks a lot for your help.


----------



## batfier

JaMo said:


> Hi,
> I  don't think we have a problem. The Gustard guys seems to check where to deliver  and what power (voltage) situation rules. If it is wrong anyway... make sure the fuse is suffient for the job.
> This matter is addressed earlier in this thread but. 230V @ 15 watts requires a fuse of 65 mA but should have a margin.. so 100 mA slow blow will work fine.
> The 115V setting will need 130mA fuse and with a decent margin the value should be 150 to 200 or even 250 mA, slow blow, You are well protected.
> ...



Intelligent electronic will protect the fuse while burning out first...


----------



## Sage Encore

Guys,
With regards to the poping and clicking issue. I had it too whenever I played DSD or even MQA through my soTm Trifecta which is using Zenith as a Core. It was even more pronounced after upgrading to Ver 4.6 from soTm. My friend and I did some trouble shooting and narrowed it down to the tx-usb ultra. We even re-flashed to the older version FW on the Gustard but no luck, it was still poping and clicking whenever DSD was played (Native) no upsampling. 

I then decided to upgrade my USB cable to Telluirum Silver Diamond, my intention was not to address the poping and clicking but just to upgrade the cable and then maybe get a SU-6.

Guess what, after changing out to Tellurium SD the poping and clicking is now completely gone. Its crystal clear and am enjoying my DSD files for the first time without any issues. Even upsampling and MQA files sound great though my DAC is not MQA certified. 

So, if u like me was almost going to dump the Gustard U16, and especially if u are using the Trifecta, try changing out the USB cable first.

It was an accidental finding for me. Just sharing. YMMV. Sorry for the long post guys.


----------



## anroj

Sage Encore said:


> Guys,
> With regards to the poping and clicking issue. I had it too whenever I played DSD or even MQA through my soTm Trifecta which is using Zenith as a Core. It was even more pronounced after upgrading to Ver 4.6 from soTm. My friend and I did some trouble shooting and narrowed it down to the tx-usb ultra. We even re-flashed to the older version FW on the Gustard but no luck, it was still poping and clicking whenever DSD was played (Native) no upsampling.
> 
> I then decided to upgrade my USB cable to Telluirum Silver Diamond, my intention was not to address the poping and clicking but just to upgrade the cable and then maybe get a SU-6.
> ...


Did you replace the USB cable from you computer to the U16, USB cable from U16 to DAC, or both?


----------



## Asimov-kln

Got my U-16 yesterday.
It came with FW 1.61. Though there was no problem with v1.61 I tried v1.4 but backed
to v 1.61 as I feel v1.61 sounds better.

It replaced Eitr and F-1 and so far U-16 is the best sounding.

The difference is easily noticeable, no need for a burn-in to the enjoy the better sound.
Most prominent feature is bass, well defined and bigger and also highly resolving.  
Thanks guys for bringing it to our attention.

Only problem I am facing is, I failed to connect my better power cable as the space is narrow, using normal power cable.
BTW if I connect it with the MB's on board USB port it gives distortion but I am using it with PPA OCXO usb card without any problem.



Chain: Xeon based server with PPA OCXO USB board > ISO Regen > U-16 > EMM Labs DAC2x


----------



## FredA

Sage Encore said:


> Guys,
> With regards to the poping and clicking issue. I had it too whenever I played DSD or even MQA through my soTm Trifecta which is using Zenith as a Core. It was even more pronounced after upgrading to Ver 4.6 from soTm. My friend and I did some trouble shooting and narrowed it down to the tx-usb ultra. We even re-flashed to the older version FW on the Gustard but no luck, it was still poping and clicking whenever DSD was played (Native) no upsampling.
> 
> I then decided to upgrade my USB cable to Telluirum Silver Diamond, my intention was not to address the poping and clicking but just to upgrade the cable and then maybe get a SU-6.
> ...


Only issue is this usb cable cost 1000usd...


----------



## Sage Encore

FredA said:


> Only issue is this usb cable cost 1000usd...


Yes it does, but it performs Fred


----------



## Sage Encore

anroj said:


> Did you replace the USB cable from you computer to the U16, USB cable from U16 to DAC, or both?


I am running a Zenith Mk2 server with the sotm Trifecta, Both my USB cables are Tellurium Silver Diamond.


----------



## anroj

Thanks for the update. I plan to purchase a dedicated music server so I'll take a look at cables once I get it.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

FredA said:


> Only issue is this usb cable cost 1000usd...



If only there was an USB bridge, that didn't have dodgy firmware and a manufacturer that is mute, comes with femtoclocks, and sound that is at least as good as the U16, if not better, and for less money than a U16 with a thousand dollar USB cable. 

Join the SU-6 club Fred, Scott's impressions should be convincing enough on the R7 thread.  Buggy U-16 is one of those things I just wish I didn't buy.


----------



## MrCypruz

I’ve got the U16 for almost 2 months now and have been running FW V1.4 without any issues whatsoever from day 1. I play all sorts of sample rates including DSD up to DSD512 with my Holo Áudio Spring DAC via I2S. No channel inversion nor clicking/distortion. I use ifi USB 3.0 Mercury Cable + ifi USB iPurifier 3. Not sure if I lucked out with my unit or if the ifi stuff helped in that regard. I also have the Matrix SPDIF 2 and I can attest that the U16 sounds better and it’s easily noticeable.


----------



## FredA (Jul 1, 2019)

MrCypruz said:


> I’ve got the U16 for almost 2 months now and have been running FW V1.4 without any issues whatsoever from day 1. I play all sorts of sample rates including DSD up to DSD512 with my Holo Áudio Spring DAC via I2S. No channel inversion nor clicking/distortion. I use ifi USB 3.0 Mercury Cable + ifi USB iPurifier 3. Not sure if I lucked out with my unit or if the ifi stuff helped in that regard. I also have the Matrix SPDIF 2 and I can attest that the U16 sounds better and it’s easily noticeable.


No doubt the u16 sounds great. It's even more obvious hooked up to the r7-he.


----------



## bequietjk

I've got to say the silver U16 looks way better IMO than both he black U16 and SU6.  If reports come in that the SU6 is only on par if not an edge better, i maybe just grab the silver U16.


----------



## MrCypruz

Reliability wise, the SU-6 is the way to go based on the majority of the reported issues with the firmware on the U16. However, if it’s sound quality that you seek, regardless of the potential hiccups, U16 is a way better affair! To my ears, it’s superior than both the SU6 and the SPDIF 2.... but that’s just me!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

MrCypruz said:


> Reliability wise, the SU-6 is the way to go based on the majority of the reported issues with the firmware on the U16. However, if it’s sound quality that you seek, regardless of the potential hiccups, U16 is a way better affair! To my ears, it’s superior than both the SU6 and the SPDIF 2.... but that’s just me!



I have owned both the SU-6 and U16 for half a year. Using I2S , there is slight difference in presentation but both are just as good in terms of SQ. 

However the U16 has horrible firmware issues and doesn't work properly half the time. Never mind the notoriously problematic I2S, I have been testing AES with a spare Aune DAC and the bugs when switching sample rates (eg shuffled playlists) continue to affect the U16, current 1.61 firmware. This just tells me that Gustard has done a very very poor job. 

The last communication with Shenzen Audio and Gustard was 2 months ago, I was promised a new firmware 'very soon' but nothing has yet surfaced. Make of it what you will, and good luck to anyone thinking of taking a punt on the U16.


----------



## MrCypruz

UsoppNoKami said:


> I have owned both the SU-6 and U16 for half a year. Using I2S , there is slight difference in presentation but both are just as good in terms of SQ.
> 
> However the U16 has horrible firmware issues and doesn't work properly half the time. Never mind the notoriously problematic I2S, I have been testing AES with a spare Aune DAC and the bugs when switching sample rates (eg shuffled playlists) continue to affect the U16, current 1.61 firmware. This just tells me that Gustard has done a very very poor job.
> 
> The last communication with Shenzen Audio and Gustard was 2 months ago, I was promised a new firmware 'very soon' but nothing has yet surfaced. Make of it what you will, and good luck to anyone thinking of taking a punt on the U16.



I’m aware of the reliability issues associated with the firmware versions but I’m one of those hyper lucky users who never had any issues with the U16. Again, to my ears, when it comes to sound quality (plus the price as an added bonus), the U16 is just a better buy and superior (to my ears). If I had experienced any or most of the reported issues, I surely would have moved on to the SU6 or the SPDIF 2 because Gustard’s customer service leaves a lot to be desired.


----------



## roni44

Hi all, 

Currently I am using MacBook Pro with Tidal HiFi/Audirvana 3.5 to U16 (1.6 firmware), then I2S out to Micromega M100. So far U16 does improve sound and really a joy to listen. Especially at low volume listening, with U16 really improves overall sound quality and stage. However, like some of you, I do experience few hiccups occasionally a static pop, sound drop out where MacBook Pro can't find Gustard, and few times when Tidal change to MQA songs, U16 will reboot itself. The main problem I have is lip sync issues when I use VLC for films or watching Youtube, however, if I use Kodi for videos, then no problem at all. Just order 10m clock and after installation will report back of my finding, happy listening.


----------



## Articnoise

UsoppNoKami said:


> I have owned both the SU-6 and U16 for half a year. Using I2S , there is slight difference in presentation but both are just as good in terms of SQ.
> 
> However the U16 has horrible firmware issues and doesn't work properly half the time. Never mind the notoriously problematic I2S, I have been testing AES with a spare Aune DAC and the bugs when switching sample rates (eg shuffled playlists) continue to affect the U16, current 1.61 firmware. This just tells me that Gustard has done a very very poor job.
> 
> The last communication with Shenzen Audio and Gustard was 2 months ago, I was promised a new firmware 'very soon' but nothing has yet surfaced. Make of it what you will, and good luck to anyone thinking of taking a punt on the U16.



I have had no problem with the SPDIF out of my Gustard U16 (1.61 firmware). The only thing I have noticed is that the Gustard U16 and all connected cables is very sensitive to movements/vibration.


----------



## TitaniumDust (Jul 3, 2019)

Count me in with the pop/click club.  ASIO, WASAPI, small or large buffers, different FW, no difference.  This is when playing any music including 16/44 on the BNC or SPDIF out.  I may try changing USB cables but I really like my silver dragon as it is my only silver USB cable.  U12 with same cable - clean music.  Suppose I will start saving for SU-6 since I have no faith that Gustard will do anything about this.

Edit: I am trying my WireWorld Silver Starlight USB cable along with different combos of Jitterbug and iPurifier3 to see if I can get rid of the pops/clicks.  I never a/b'ed that cable with the silver dragon, but the WW still sounds REALLY good even though it is only silver-plated copper. I will report once/if I confirm any findings.


----------



## Criable

TitaniumDust said:


> I am trying my WireWorld Silver Starlight USB cable along with different combos of Jitterbug and iPurifier3 to see if I can get rid of the pops/clicks. I never a/b'ed that cable with the silver dragon, but the WW still sounds REALLY good even though it is only silver-plated copper. I will report once/if I confirm any findings.



I have this wireworld cable. Very balanced sounding cable. Am using it with the sotm streamer. In my setup - I get pops and clicks on v1.61 with bitrate greater than 98khz - but on v1.4  playback is perfect. Its quite a pity as v1.61 sounds better.


----------



## roni44

I only get click and pop after 1 hour or so into listening, then about every 10 to 15 mins I get a pop. But quick reset by turning off and on of U16 solves the problem. Currently on V1.6 and might revert back to V1.4 when 10m clock arrive.


----------



## bequietjk

I'm just wondering what the jump from F-1 to SU6 will sound like o__o.  Gonna take me a while to save for a SU6 anyway haha.


----------



## Articnoise

I don’t use the Gustard U16 Windows driver, as I have an ultraRendu between my PC and U16. Maybe it’s the Gustard Windows (USB Audio) driver that so many have a problem with.


----------



## bequietjk

I just noticed yesterday while I was searching, the Aune X1S can be used as a digital transport for USB to SPDIF conversion...  I know this a Guastard thread but have any of you had experience with the X1S as a transport?  This unit seems like a jack of all trades!


----------



## roni44

bequietjk said:


> I just noticed yesterday while I was searching, the Aune X1S can be used as a digital transport for USB to SPDIF conversion...  I know this a Guastard thread but have any of you had experience with the X1S as a transport?  This unit seems like a jack of all trades!



If you can live with the possible bugs, then I say go for it, I didn't think it will improve the sound with my Micromega m100 and MacBook Pro, however the improvement was noticeable and the bugs I have doesn't both me that much.


----------



## bequietjk

Bugs from X1S?  I thought Aune would be on top of that...


----------



## roni44

bequietjk said:


> Bugs from X1S?  I thought Aune would be on top of that...


I mean the bugs on U16


----------



## bequietjk

Ok


----------



## TitaniumDust

Articnoise said:


> I don’t use the Gustard U16 Windows driver, as I have an ultraRendu between my PC and U16. Maybe it’s the Gustard Windows (USB Audio) driver that so many have a problem with.



Personally, I've tried both the Gustard driver and the built-in Windows driver, but still get pops/clicks either way.


----------



## TitaniumDust

Unfortunately, it looks like swapping the USB cables did not help a whole lot for me with the pops/clicks.  Maybe they are a little less frequent, that's all.  I purchased a used Eitr to serve as backup while I await word from Gustard.  I don't know if this is even fixable via firmware, but I'm not holding my breath.  Such a pity since this thing sounds awesome otherwise.  It is worth keeping though, just in case, maybe Gustard will surprise me.


----------



## Articnoise

When I read that some people have big problems with their Gustard U16 while others, like me, have no problems at all, I ask myself what the reason may be. Perhaps it is a firmware problem like many seem to believe or it is something completely different. What speaks for the fact that it is not a firmware problem is that then everyone who uses a Gustard U16 should experience the same problem, don’t they? I was thinking further about what can distinguish between my U16, that works as it should, and those who do not and came to the conclusion that maybe it is the USB communication between the computer itself and Gustard U16 that is the problem.

My guess / hypothesis is that USB communication for some reason doesn’t work properly between Windows and U16. Which would explain that having an USB bridge like the ultraRendu with its own USB program between the computer and U16 doesn’t experience any problems. To fix the problem, the USB error in Gustard U16 must be fixed. If then my hypothesis is true I do not know.


----------



## Seegs108 (Jul 5, 2019)

Articnoise said:


> When I read that some people have big problems with their Gustard U16 while others, like me, have no problems at all, I ask myself what the reason may be. Perhaps it is a firmware problem like many seem to believe or it is something completely different. What speaks for the fact that it is not a firmware problem is that then everyone who uses a Gustard U16 should experience the same problem, don’t they? I was thinking further about what can distinguish between my U16, that works as it should, and those who do not and came to the conclusion that maybe it is the USB communication between the computer itself and Gustard U16 that is the problem.
> 
> My guess / hypothesis is that USB communication for some reason doesn’t work properly between Windows and U16. Which would explain that having an USB bridge like the ultraRendu with its own USB program between the computer and U16 doesn’t experience any problems. To fix the problem, the USB error in Gustard U16 must be fixed. If then my hypothesis is true I do not know.



Considering those of us with a U16 have used other DDC's with an otherwise unchanged system with no issues indicates the U16 has an issue either with its hardware (I don't think so) or that its Windows driver is buggy. The latter seems to make more sense. Gustard needs to work on this more.


----------



## roni44

Seegs108 said:


> Considering those of us with a U16 have used other DDC's with an otherwise unchanged system with no issues indicates the U16 has an issue either with its hardware (I don't think so) or that its Windows driver is buggy. The latter seems to make more sense. Gustard needs to work on this more.



When I use windows 8.1 laptop to U16 with coaxial out, no pop and click, but with MacBook Pro to U16 and I2S out, then pop and click after an hour into listening, pop and click will repeat itself every 10mins or so. I'm guessing has to do with I2S output.


----------



## MrCypruz

I've been using the U16 (FW 1.4) on my Windows 10 Lenovo laptop for a little over 2 months with no issues whatsoever at any sample rate. Today I got my Mac Mini to use strictly as my music server & Roon Core. Setting it up with the U16 was a breeze, pretty  much plug-and-play. I've had about 7hrs of playtime so far with no pops/clicks etc at any sample rate. Not sure if I'm one of those super lucky guys or the USB interface between the U16 and your machines are indeed buggy/not speaking the same language. 
I've tried every single sample rate in Roon from 44.1 kHz all the way to DSD512 with no issues to report (including channel inversion). 

For reference, I'm using the U16 with the ADI-2 DAC (Coaxial), ADI-2 Pro (AES), Holo Spring DAC (I2S) and LS50W active speakers (Optical).


----------



## MrCypruz (Jul 7, 2019)

Just to add details about USB cables...I've been using the iFi USB 3.0 with iPurifier 3.0 on the Lenovo and I'm currently using the Audiquest Carbon with iPurifier 3.0 on the Mac Mini. Not sure if these cables + Jitterbug devices have been playing a role in the flawless performance of the U16 or not but I felt like sharing this info anyway hoping that it will help the folks having issues with the U16.


----------



## PLGA

Hello Guys,
Have anyone tried the U16 with the SOtM SMS 200 Ultra? If so, do they work fine streaming Tidal?


----------



## PLGA

I listen to all of my music streaming Tidal hifi with Windows 10 and Audinirvana+.
I have took care of the USB signal with Audioquest Jitterbug + Wyred4sound USB Reclocker with LPS + Gustard U16 before going into my Audio-gd R8 DAC.
Ive also changed from WiFi to Ethernet as I find the second to sound better and I waiting for a switch and better Ethernet cables as I think that they will also improve the sound quality.
Nevertheless, yesterday I was watching a film on Netflix, with the sound coming from my TV via Optical cable (a cheap 10 feet chinese one) to my DAC with no signal conditioner in between whatsoever. I also must say that the TV is connected to Internet via WiFi, not Ethernet cable. Well, as I said, I was watching a film on Netflix and at the end there was a song that my wife liked, so I looked for it on Tidal (right from the Soundtrack álbum) and I added it to one on my lists. Then, just being curious, I compared the sound of my USB digital, with all of my dedicated gear, against the TV with cheap optical cable. Well, the latest sounded better, much more analog, with less sibilance.
After that experience, I connected back an iEAST streamer (a cheap chinese one) Ive had stored for two years and, eventhough it didnt sound as good my TV, it sounded very similar to my USB rig.
So now Im convinced that a good sounding streamer will be a "very good" investment on my system, wich I consider to be very revealing, but it lacked a little little bit of an analog sound and I thought it was the power Conditioner not being good enough (I almost bought an Audioquest Niagra), but now I know what was the principal short coming.


----------



## bequietjk

Very interesting find!  Great that you went to discover and experiment with your sound system.  I love getting new items and testing to see whether they have an impact and if it is worth it or not to keep in the system.  All preference.  All adventure.

  Cheers!


----------



## Chopin75 (Jul 8, 2019)

PLGA said:


> I listen to all of my music streaming Tidal hifi with Windows 10 and Audinirvana+.
> I have took care of the USB signal with Audioquest Jitterbug + Wyred4sound USB Reclocker with LPS + Gustard U16 before going into my Audio-gd R8 DAC.
> Ive also changed from WiFi to Ethernet as I find the second to sound better and I waiting for a switch and better Ethernet cables as I think that they will also improve the sound quality.
> Nevertheless, yesterday I was watching a film on Netflix, with the sound coming from my TV via Optical cable (a cheap 10 feet chinese one) to my DAC with no signal conditioner in between whatsoever. I also must say that the TV is connected to Internet via WiFi, not Ethernet cable. Well, as I said, I was watching a film on Netflix and at the end there was a song that my wife liked, so I looked for it on Tidal (right from the Soundtrack álbum) and I added it to one on my lists. Then, just being curious, I compared the sound of my USB digital, with all of my dedicated gear, against the TV with cheap optical cable. Well, the latest sounded better, much more analog, with less sibilance.
> ...


I have made similar discoveries.  I currently has eliminated almost all the USB enhancing rigs. I find using the optical cable "corning USB 3" to be best, without the need for galvanic isolation devices and uses it alone. It is definitely better than regular copper USB cable. Also I use Regen USPCB adaptor at the end before entry to DAC to cut out Vbus and that helps a lot too, even though the optical cable only has very weak VBus.   I think a  great music server with great clock, LPS is essential and may not need any galvanic isolation devices. The galvanic isolation devices recheck the signal which also introduces some color and you loses something as a result, IMO.


----------



## PLGA

I think I will buy in a coupleof months the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo to try it with the Swagman LPS I already have. 
I will try it on my system connected directly to the DAC and then with the Gustard U16 in between.


----------



## Criable (Jul 10, 2019)

PLGA said:


> Hello Guys,
> Have anyone tried the U16 with the SOtM SMS 200 Ultra? If so, do they work fine streaming Tidal?



Am using sms200 ultra neo with u16.
Somehow v1.61 don’t work so well. Pops and clicks happen with bitrate higher than 80khz.

On firmware v1.4 - things work perfectly. Its a pity though as I think v1.6 sounds better

To stream from Tidal is not so straightforward with sotm. You need to either stream via the roon or lms platform - Or via airplay. Tidal works very well with roon - doable with LMS. Hope that answers your question. 

Sms200 ultra neo is a fine piece of kit and I think you’ll enjoy it alot if you decide to go for it. Btw - sms200 ultra neo works very well with the sps500 power supply. Extremely well !!! But you’ll need to swap out the dc cables from sps500 with a better one. I have tried other lps with sms200 ultra neo - none come close to the level of fidelity of the sps500.


----------



## roni44

for I2S cable, does it has to be HDMI 2.0 or any HDMI will do?


----------



## Criable (Jul 10, 2019)

roni44 said:


> for I2S cable, does it has to be HDMI 2.0 or any HDMI will do?



Any hdmi should do although there are preference for v2.1.


----------



## PLGA

Criable said:


> Am using sms200 ultra neo with u16.
> Somehow v1.61 don’t work so well. Pops and clicks happen with bitrate higher than 80khz.
> 
> On firmware v1.4 - things work perfectly. Its a pity though as I think v1.6 sounds better
> ...



Hello Criable, thank you for the reply! Very useful info.

Does U16 improve the sound quality of the SMS200 Ultra Neo? I mean, does the combo sound better than just the SMS200 alone? Is it worthwile to keep the U16?


----------



## Criable

PLGA said:


> Does U16 improve the sound quality of the SMS200 Ultra Neo? I mean, does the combo sound better than just the SMS200 alone? Is it worthwile to keep the U16?



Np @PLGA 
Ultra neo sounds very good by itself - however the USB implementation in most dacs (including mine) are not that great.
I only use i2s connection from u16 to the denafrips dacs. Between i2s and usb in my setup - there is no contest - I2s wins hands down. 
I think sotm and u16 work well together (sounds great too)... if there is no hurry in selling the u16 - why not hold on to it until u get the sotm?


----------



## PLGA

Criable said:


> Np @PLGA
> Ultra neo sounds very good by itself - however the USB implementation in most dacs (including mine) are not that great.
> I only use i2s connection from u16 to the denafrips dacs. Between i2s and usb in my setup - there is no contest - I2s wins hands down.
> I think sotm and u16 work well together (sounds great too)... if there is no hurry in selling the u16 - why not hold on to it until u get the sotm?



Yes, sure. I will keep the U16 until i try it with the SMS200 and I will sell it only if I find no difference (o very little) with it in between.
I think my DAC, the Audio-GD R8, will also have the same benefit going I2S instead of USB. 
Thanks for the info.


----------



## roni44 (Jul 10, 2019)

I was able to install 10m ext. clock on U16 last night, the installation was easy, plug in the machine, attach the antenna to nearest window(supplied antenna comes with really long cable), less than 5 mins, the machine display 10m and it was ready to go. Immediately I notice everything sounded more clear, sound stage has deepen and more defined to my untrained ears. I strongly recommend this add-on to any U16 user especially it cost less than USD200.

Things I like:
1. obvious sound improvement, it really bring the best out of your system and music.
2. Easy installation, just move the antenna around until you get full bars, then wait til the machine reaches 10m and it's ready.
3. Price, for less than USD200, it's well worth the money.

Things I don't like:
1. No way to turn off the screen, the screen is bright can be bothersome. I guess I can always mask over with tape.
2. No way to turn off the machine unless unplug from the wall or the machine, assume every time turn on needs to wait for a bit til the  machine reaches 10m.

For those interested in trying, I ordered mine direct from Taobao for 998rmb and shipped to Taiwan. I choose Sine wave and blue screen white lettering (screen). Make sure you have a 50ohm bnc cable ready for installation. I believe the machine is available on Amazon, just search 10mhz GPSDO.


----------



## Sage Encore (Jul 12, 2019)

PLGA said:


> Yes, sure. I will keep the U16 until i try it with the SMS200 and I will sell it only if I find no difference (o very little) with it in between.
> I think my DAC, the Audio-GD R8, will also have the same benefit going I2S instead of USB.
> Thanks for the info.


I would suggest is2 connection anytime. A whole lot quieter and less jitter. As for keeping the U16, well that depends if you upsample your music. I for one am probably going to ditch the U16 and get the SU 6 for its stability. But I will maintain a is2 connection for sure. USB is just soooo meh.


----------



## PLGA

roni44 said:


> I was able to install 10m ext. clock on U16 last night, the installation was easy, plug in the machine, attach the antenna to nearest window(supplied antenna comes with really long cable), less than 5 mins, the machine display 10m and it was ready to go. Immediately I notice everything sounded more clear, sound stage has deepen and more defined to my untrained ears. I strongly recommend this add-on to any U16 user especially it cost less than USD200.
> 
> Things I like:
> 1. obvious sound improvement, it really bring the best out of your system and music.
> ...



Hello @roni44
Thanks for the tip.
Could you give us the links for clock and the cable?
One silly question, if its a clock why does it need an antenna? I really dont get that part.


----------



## Alcophone

PLGA said:


> Hello @roni44
> One silly question, if its a clock why does it need an antenna? I really dont get that part.


It uses GPS satellites (which have highly accurate atomic clocks, and transmit that time) to get a stable reference.


----------



## FredA

Alcophone said:


> It uses GPS satellites (which have highly accurate atomic clocks, and transmit that time) to get a stable reference.


Do you use the sinewave 0.65V 10Mhz output?


----------



## Alcophone

FredA said:


> Do you use the sinewave 0.65V 10Mhz output?


I don't know what outputs his has, and I have neither a GPSDO nor a Gustard U16. Fix that firmware already, Gustard!


----------



## PLGA

Alcophone said:


> It uses GPS satellites (which have highly accurate atomic clocks, and transmit that time) to get a stable reference.



Ok, but I guess you need to place the antenna outside to get the GPS signal and that would be somehow difficult for some of us. Or can you place it inside the house?
On the other hand, can you please give us the web link for the place where you have bought it?
Thank you


----------



## PLGA

Im sorry, that question goes to @roni44


----------



## anroj

roni44 said:


> I was able to install 10m ext. clock on U16 last night, the installation was easy, plug in the machine, attach the antenna to nearest window(supplied antenna comes with really long cable), less than 5 mins, the machine display 10m and it was ready to go. Immediately I notice everything sounded more clear, sound stage has deepen and more defined to my untrained ears. I strongly recommend this add-on to any U16 user especially it cost less than USD200.
> 
> Things I like:
> 1. obvious sound improvement, it really bring the best out of your system and music.
> ...


Hi, quick question: I can't find in the U16 manual where it specifies the input impedence of the BNC jack. Where did you find the information on 50 Ohm cable or 75 Ohm cable? I would like to try out the GPSDO clock and want to make sure I get the correct cable.


----------



## Alcophone

anroj said:


> Hi, quick question: I can't find in the U16 manual where it specifies the input impedence of the BNC jack. Where did you find the information on 50 Ohm cable or 75 Ohm cable? I would like to try out the GPSDO clock and want to make sure I get the correct cable.



Page 16:


----------



## anroj

Alcophone said:


> Page 16:


Thanks. So input and output impedence are both 50 Ohms?


----------



## Alcophone

anroj said:


> Thanks. So input and output impedence are both 50 Ohms?


I only know what it says in the manual.


----------



## anroj

Alcophone said:


> I only know what it says in the manual.


Well, since it works for you, I'll take your word for it.


----------



## FredA

Alcophone said:


> I don't know what outputs his has, and I have neither a GPSDO nor a Gustard U16. Fix that firmware already, Gustard!


Sorry, i took you for the original poster...thanks anyway.


----------



## Alcophone

anroj said:


> Well, since it works for you, I'll take your word for it.


Different guy, just was considering something similar.



FredA said:


> Sorry, i took you for the original poster...thanks anyway.


Sorry for the confusion, everyone. :-D


----------



## motberg

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...YgoZM&id=588479666867&ns=1&abbucket=19#detail

pretty cool looking device...


----------



## motberg

roni44 said:


> I was able to install 10m ext. clock on U16 last night, the installation was easy, plug in the machine, attach the antenna to nearest window(supplied antenna comes with really long cable), less than 5 mins, the machine display 10m and it was ready to go. Immediately I notice everything sounded more clear, sound stage has deepen and more defined to my untrained ears. I strongly recommend this add-on to any U16 user especially it cost less than USD200.
> 
> Things I like:
> 1. obvious sound improvement, it really bring the best out of your system and music.
> ...



If possible, please keep us updated on stability during use... can you lose GPS lock while playing and what is the effect to the audio system ?


----------



## PLGA

Hello guys
Im sorry, but I still dont get it 100%.

The clock can be bought here or in any other similar place, thats easy:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Latest-10M...814962&hash=item1a3d7e5642:g:TqQAAOSwPPpaOhYT

But then, I guess its 10 Mhz output should be connected to the only clock input on the U16 and the antenna should go positioned somewhere outside the house so it can get the GPS signal. Am I correct? Can the antenna get GPS signal inside the house? Is it just a plugg and play device?


----------



## MrCypruz (Jul 13, 2019)

The trend of this thread allowed me to realize once again that the rabbit hole is indeed waaaaayy deeper than I thought....when one starts having to use or rely on GPSDO devices to improve the SQ on one device, he/she must consider another device or just go straight to analog. Not sure how much better the U16 is going to sound with all the GPSDO device PLUS its “added noise”. Sometimes I wonder if this hobby is focused on music enjoyment or on endless system upgrades (which is also enjoyable). For reference, I’m running my U16 (updated FW from 1.4 to 1.61) with the W4S reclocker, Audioquest Carbon cables from a Mac Mini music server with ifi USB ipurifiers in between and I’m REALLY happy and satisfied with its performance...no pops/clicks, just music enjoyment at any sample rates including DSD up to DSD512 to my Holo Spring DAC.


----------



## roni44

I'm not the right person to ask technical questions as my knowledge is very limited when comes to both DDC and 10M clocks.

@PLGA
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thermax-M1...Connector-bnc-m23329-3-02-04-3m-/181284224471 this is the 50ohm cable I used, nothing special, it was good spec with right price. All 50ohm BNC terminated cable should be good.

@FredA 
All I know is to buy sinewave 10mhz and get a 50ohm BNC terminated cable.

@PLGA 
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id...n0HE4_le1wZkOy3q8hYqzvEGu4w4&app=macos_safari

https://www.amazon.com/FidgetKute-1...3967&s=gateway&sprefix=GPSDO+,aps,312&sr=8-12 

@motberg 
Luckily behind my system is floor to ceiling window, so I have no problem with signal and it has been very stable. It bounces between 9.999mhz to 10mhz and has not once dropped the signal, I have not attach the antenna permanently to the window, I will move the antenna away from window more inside of the room to test the signal strength. 

Installation from U16 10MCLK to clock's 10mhz once signal locked on and change OSC from INT to EXT and viola. 

@MrCypruz 

I agree with you, I rather spend time enjoy music than fine tuning system, that's one of the main reason I bought the best integrated amp/DAC I could afford and don't have to worry about power cables, interconnects and etc. 

I suggest anyone is one the fence, give it a try if Amazon offers money back guarantee. I got 10mhz clock due to a local user swear by it, and he was right, the improvement in my system is very noticeable, everything just sounded more clear and defined. 

One problem I have encounter is Audirvana 3.5 with TIDAL HIFI after installation of clock, some songs will produce cracking sound, if I use Tidal's own desktop app and Apple Music, no problem at all.


----------



## FredA

@roni44 What dac and amp do you use?


----------



## roni44

@FredA I am using Micromega M100 with built in DAC, it has built in audio server, streamer and internet radio. My music source is only Tidal HiFi and for as long as I have Micromega M100, I didn't have to add any streamer or media server. I wasn't even really looking to buy anything else after my son broke M2tech Hiface 2 which I had on previous system. A local friend ended up loaning the U16 to me for trial, and I decided to get one due to the improvement when I use MacBook Pro for youtube and Netflix. Then just for fun, I ended up A/B Micromega's own streamer with and Tidal Desktop app thu U16 to Micromega, to my surprise, i could hear difference, but very very small. Then my friend suggested 10mhz clock as it will bring out the best of U16 and here we are. I can confidently say in my current setup, 10mhz clock is a must and i will bypass the internal streamer for good.


----------



## FredA (Jul 15, 2019)

roni44 said:


> @FredA I am using Micromega M100 with built in DAC, it has built in audio server, streamer and internet radio. My music source is only Tidal HiFi and for as long as I have Micromega M100, I didn't have to add any streamer or media server. I wasn't even really looking to buy anything else after my son broke M2tech Hiface 2 which I had on previous system. A local friend ended up loaning the U16 to me for trial, and I decided to get one due to the improvement when I use MacBook Pro for youtube and Netflix. Then just for fun, I ended up A/B Micromega's own streamer with and Tidal Desktop app thu U16 to Micromega, to my surprise, i could hear difference, but very very small. Then my friend suggested 10mhz clock as it will bring out the best of U16 and here we are. I can confidently say in my current setup, 10mhz clock is a must and i will bypass the internal streamer for good.


Nice, thanks for the info,  much appreciated.

I am thinking of getting a regular ocxo and not a gpsdo. I am not sure at all the gpsdo is any better for audio applications.. Any though? Anyone?

Also, was the burn-in done on the u16.? Cause the Accusilicons need time. Houndreds of hours...


----------



## roni44

FredA said:


> Nice, thanks for the info,  much appreciated.
> 
> I am thinking of getting a regular ocxo and not a gpsdo. I am not sure at all the gpsdo is any better for audio applications.. Any though? Anyone?
> 
> Also, was the burn-in done on the u16.? Cause the Accusilicons need time. Houndreds of hours...



Yes, I have clocked at least 150 hours on U16, I think it was about 100 hours after where I notice the difference between Micromega and U16, without 10mhz clock, U16 was better during low volume, it allows me to hear more details and more spacious, with clock, all the instruments are more distinctive, more clear and just bring much more enjoyment out of the music. 

Last night, I moved antenna into the room as far away from the window as I can and antenna cable length allowed, at my location, never once the signal has dropped, it continue locked onto between 9.999mhz and 10mhz while the bar on display only showing only 1 to 2 bars for about an hour. 

Another finding last night, during the listening session, I was noticing something was off and quick peek at the clock screen and the signal was good. Then I remember I turn off and on U16 every day, and by doing that, sure enough the U16's CLK was reset back to INT, quick change to EXT and the sound was right back where it should be.


----------



## motberg

roni44 said:


> Yes, I have clocked at least 150 hours on U16, I think it was about 100 hours after where I notice the difference between Micromega and U16, without 10mhz clock, U16 was better during low volume, it allows me to hear more details and more spacious, with clock, all the instruments are more distinctive, more clear and just bring much more enjoyment out of the music.
> 
> Last night, I moved antenna into the room as far away from the window as I can and antenna cable length allowed, at my location, never once the signal has dropped, it continue locked onto between 9.999mhz and 10mhz while the bar on display only showing only 1 to 2 bars for about an hour.
> 
> Another finding last night, during the listening session, I was noticing something was off and quick peek at the clock screen and the signal was good. Then I remember I turn off and on U16 every day, and by doing that, sure enough the U16's CLK was reset back to INT, quick change to EXT and the sound was right back where it should be.



Thanks again for all the details.. I just ordered one of these.
I have a trip coming up soon, but maybe with some luck I can give this a try and send some comments this week yet..


----------



## FredA

I ordered a regular ocxo, meaning not a gpsdo, as i felt this was not needed. I should report on it within 3 weeks. Paid just 100$ for a unit with 2 sine outputs and 1 square ouput.


----------



## roni44

FredA said:


> I ordered a regular ocxo, meaning not a gpsdo, as i felt this was not needed. I should report on it within 3 weeks. Paid just 100$ for a unit with 2 sine outputs and 1 square ouput.



Awesome, please do share your finding and if it does improve the sound, I will get one just for fun.


----------



## FredA

roni44 said:


> Awesome, please do share your finding and if it does improve the sound, I will get one just for fun.


I will for sure and am pretty sure it will.


----------



## teatime888

ITS NEW U16 firmware! enjoy it
the files came from China factory boss.
V1.61 BETA vision https://drive.google.com/open?id=1E5ggvoaxcp_srcr7Fq_ZpdFhOX54aPW1

V1.77 vision https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mLt8VU2Q754A_JaHdZ_-SEN5CXB8M3GO


----------



## roni44

teatime888 said:


> ITS NEW U16 firmware! enjoy it
> the files came from China factory boss.
> V1.61 BETA vision https://drive.google.com/open?id=1E5ggvoaxcp_srcr7Fq_ZpdFhOX54aPW1
> 
> V1.77 vision https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mLt8VU2Q754A_JaHdZ_-SEN5CXB8M3GO



Thank you, do you know what's the difference?


----------



## bequietjk

New firmware!?  NANI!?

This is what I've been hoping for.  Let's see how it does!


----------



## UsoppNoKami

teatime888 said:


> ITS NEW U16 firmware! enjoy it
> the files came from China factory boss.
> V1.61 BETA vision https://drive.google.com/open?id=1E5ggvoaxcp_srcr7Fq_ZpdFhOX54aPW1
> 
> V1.77 vision https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mLt8VU2Q754A_JaHdZ_-SEN5CXB8M3GO



Thanks for sharing.  Wonder if this will finally 'fix' the U16's many issues...

Any new driver software to accompany the new firmware?


----------



## Ludique

I'm sorry to break it to you, but spdif at 192 still does not work from a linux streamer.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

U16 still broken indeed, tried both firmware versions on Win10, PSA I2S to Audio-GD and AES to Aune S6.  oh well, back to my SU-6


----------



## motberg

roni44 said:


> I'm not the right person to ask technical questions as my knowledge is very limited when comes to both DDC and 10M clocks.
> 
> @PLGA
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thermax-M1...Connector-bnc-m23329-3-02-04-3m-/181284224471 this is the 50ohm cable I used, nothing special, it was good spec with right price. All 50ohm BNC terminated cable should be good.
> ...



To add some information here - 

1) I received one of these and cannot get the GPS lock indoors (inside lower level apartment and 4 meters from the nearest window). I need about a 10M lead to the antenna so if I can find that I will advise the group.
2) I found a manual online, they suggest a clear view of the sky for best performance. Also interesting comments about performance vs. warm up time.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ttach=403461&usg=AOvVaw3ZQ-FwkItEVt5DSJeyohva


----------



## PitBul34 (Jul 18, 2019)

Alcophone said:


> It uses GPS satellites (which have highly accurate atomic clocks, and transmit that time) to get a stable reference.



Hm., what time? Orbital time isn't equal terrestrial time, it's a bit slower due to Einstein theory (atomic clocks located on satellites boards runs slower the same one located on Earth). So, satellits transmiting corrected time for Earth. What about a jitter during this Einsteins correction?


----------



## Sage Encore

FredA said:


> I ordered a regular ocxo, meaning not a gpsdo, as i felt this was not needed. I should report on it within 3 weeks. Paid just 100$ for a unit with 2 sine outputs and 1 square ouput.


Hi Fred,
Care to share where and what kind you ordered? Thank you sir.


----------



## FredA (Jul 18, 2019)

Sage Encore said:


> Hi Fred,
> Care to share where and what kind you ordered? Thank you sir.


Got this but have no idea if any good (or if the OCXO inside is new but it should be as not mentioned otherwise), other than a favorable review on aliexpress and some graph on the ebay page.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/2018-10MHz-OCXO-Frequency-Standard-Reference-2-CH-Sine-wave-1-CH-Square-wave/173448116014?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Also got this to power it:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/25W-TALEMA-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## Sage Encore

FredA said:


> Got this but have no idea if any good (or if the OCXO inside is new but it should be as not mentioned otherwise), other than a favorable review on aliexpress and some graph on the ebay page.
> 
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/2018-10MHz-OCXO-Frequency-Standard-Reference-2-CH-Sine-wave-1-CH-Square-wave/173448116014?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...


Thank you sir, much appreciated for that prompt reply. Waiting on your review as well.


----------



## Sage Encore

UsoppNoKami said:


> U16 still broken indeed, tried both firmware versions on Win10, PSA I2S to Audio-GD and AES to Aune S6.  oh well, back to my SU-6


Hi Bro,
Care to share your findings? I am also thinking of ditching the Gustard and go with the SU 6. Just waiting till my DSP board for Termy gets in before I pull the trigger. Thank you very much sir,


----------



## lucianpescaru

One thing I can say the new firmware does is adding usb 3 compatibility. And I have a Renesas 3.0 card with OSCON caps. When I needed to upgrade the firmware at first it needed to be plugged in an USB 2.0 port. Now I can update the firmware on the 3.0 Renesas card. But I only use the Gustard for mainly 16/44 max 24/96 as I have a lite dac 83 with PCM1704 R2R dacs. Sounds better now on AES (balanced spdif). No problems with i2s to Gustard X22 either.


----------



## Criable

Quick update on the newer firmware(s)
In my setup - version 1.77 is super unstable - not fit for prime time at all. 
I can only described as SKIPPY ......... 

Version 1.61 NFB - so far so good... on the older v1.61, any bitrate > 80 is choppy and unstable. 
On this new NFB version...  they seems to have iron the problem out....... this is based on my quick initial testing....


----------



## wwmhf

Many thanks for sharing these. I will give them a try later.



teatime888 said:


> ITS NEW U16 firmware! enjoy it
> the files came from China factory boss.
> V1.61 BETA vision https://drive.google.com/open?id=1E5ggvoaxcp_srcr7Fq_ZpdFhOX54aPW1
> 
> V1.77 vision https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mLt8VU2Q754A_JaHdZ_-SEN5CXB8M3GO


----------



## wwmhf

Criable said:


> Quick update on the newer firmware(s)
> In my setup - version 1.77 is super unstable - not fit for prime time at all.
> I can only described as SKIPPY .........
> 
> ...



What is NFB? Please explain if possible


----------



## Criable

wwmhf said:


> What is NFB? Please explain if possible



I have no idea also on what it stands for. 
The previous version (released in Jan 19) was v1.61. It didn’t work out for me as it was too choppy on songs with bitrate higher than 80. 

I use 1.41 as a fall back - sq was not as good as v1.61 but at least I don’t have choppy plackback. 

Gustard released 2 new firmware versions via a fellow forumer today :
1) V1.61 NFB
2) V1.77

I’ve reported my initial findings on the 2 firmwares in the previous post. NFB may mean something - but I don’t know what it is. 

Am only using i2s to a denafrips dac


----------



## wwmhf

I have similar experiences with the v1.41 and v1.61 firmwares and I have been using v1.41 for many months. In my set up, the U16 is connected to a Gustard X20 dac via I2S.


----------



## Criable (Jul 18, 2019)

wwmhf said:


> I have similar experiences with the v1.41 and v1.61 firmwares and I have been using v1.41 for many months. In my set up, the U16 is connected to a Gustard X20 dac via I2S.



I suspect your experience with the 2 newer firmwares may be similar to mine 

Please share your findings too


----------



## Alcophone

PitBul34 said:


> Hm., what time? Orbital time isn't equal terrestrial time, it's a bit slower due to Einstein theory (atomic clocks located on satellites boards runs slower the same one located on Earth). So, satellits transmiting corrected time for Earth. What about a jitter during this Einsteins correction?


Well, that is above my pay grade  But the idea is that it's very stable long term, so it can be used to counter aging in a clock. On the other hand, short term stability should be more relevant for audio, and I can see that fluctuate more with a GPSDO as satellites go in and out of range. Just my speculation, though.


----------



## Alcophone

wwmhf said:


> What is NFB? Please explain if possible


Maybe it refers to the Audio-GD NFB-11 DAC/headphone amp: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB11/NFB11EN.htm


----------



## PitBul34

FredA said:


> Got this but have no idea if any good (or if the OCXO inside is new


 It's can not be new, the new ocxo chips costs > $1500


----------



## lucianpescaru

Not the NFB11 but the NFB range from Audio GD.


----------



## FredA (Jul 18, 2019)

PitBul34 said:


> It's can not be new, the new ocxo chips costs > $1500


There are cheaper units i am sure. Mine is from a chinese cie.


----------



## FredA (Jul 18, 2019)

Just installed the 1.61 nfb beta. I have an audio-gd r7-he. So far, just a single pop changing data rate, not occuring afterwards, and everything plays fine. 192,188,96, 44.

For those installing it on an i2s dac, don't forget to select the right i2s mode. I selected PSA.

Too soon for champagne but promising.


----------



## wwmhf

FredA said:


> Just installed the 1.61 nfb beta. I have an audio-gd r7-he. So far, just a single pop changing data rate, not occuring afterwards, and everything plays fine. 192,188,96, 44.
> 
> For those installing it on an i2s dac, don't forget to select the right i2s mode. I selected PSA.
> 
> Too soon for champagne but promising.



I am wondering whether we can use this v1.61 NFB with other DACs than the ones made by audio-gd. I could try it myself, but I am away from my equipment.


----------



## Criable

wwmhf said:


> I am wondering whether we can use this v1.61 NFB with other DACs than the ones made by audio-gd. I could try it myself, but I am away from my equipment.



I don’t think the “nfb” label on this firmware refers to audio gd nfb dac
Am using it with a denafrips dac - so far so good


----------



## roni44

motberg said:


> To add some information here -
> 
> 1) I received one of these and cannot get the GPS lock indoors (inside lower level apartment and 4 meters from the nearest window). I need about a 10M lead to the antenna so if I can find that I will advise the group.
> 2) I found a manual online, they suggest a clear view of the sky for best performance. Also interesting comments about performance vs. warm up time.
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&ved=2ahUKEwimm-vvk77jAhXSaN4KHXbDDDk4ChAWMAB6BAgCEAI&url=https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/bg7tbl-gpsdo-master-reference/?action=dlattach;attach=403461&usg=AOvVaw3ZQ-FwkItEVt5DSJeyohva



Oh man, sorry to hear, since I live on the 11th floor apartment, my reception might be much easier to lock onto. I did ask the local user whom suggested the 10mhz clock, himself did buy a longer antenna to get the signal. I do hope the new antenna will work out for you.


----------



## roni44

After install of v1.77, the firmware fixed lipsync issue I had with watching youtube. Another user I spoke to he didn't like the sound of v1.77 at all, he mentioned compare to v1.61, v1.77 didn't sound as live and clear. I will do my own comparison this weekend and report back.


----------



## wwmhf (Jul 18, 2019)

Criable said:


> I don’t think the “nfb” label on this firmware refers to audio gd nfb dac
> Am using it with a denafrips dac - so far so good



I installed the v1.61 NFB firmware. It worked with my Gustard X20 DAC; however, the channels are swapped! I do not want to comment on the sound quality at this initial stage.


----------



## wwmhf

The v1.77 does not have the channels swapping issue like the v.161 firmware


----------



## roni44

wwmhf said:


> I installed the v1.61 NFB firmware. It worked with my Gustard X20 DAC; however, the channels are swapped! I do not want comment on the sound quality at this initial stage.



if I kept in v1.41, then channel is swapped, with older1.61 comes with selection for other brands, I have tested and cycle thu all the brands available, few works perfect with my Micromega M100, I ended up staying with PSA. Not sure what's 1.61NFB do, but I will try tonight.


----------



## Criable

wwmhf said:


> I installed the v1.61 NFB firmware. It worked with my Gustard X20 DAC; however, the channels are swapped! I do not want to comment on the sound quality at this initial stage.



Did you try to cycle the modes. X20 should be gsd


----------



## MrCypruz

I’ve been A/B testing the 3 FW versions (1.61, 1.61 NFB and 1.77) since they were shared last night (Thank you for that!). As I shared previously I’ve not experienced any pop/click issues at various sample rates on both my Windows 10 PC and Mac Mini server so I’ll limit myself in sharing my impressions on the SQ since stability/functionality were never an issue for me.  In a nutshell v1.61 beats the two new FWs and the 1.77 is the worst of the 3. 

V1.61 
Presents more detail, deeper and wider soundstage, perfect smoothness on the highs without sounding veiled, we’ll textured and detailed bass, vocals are chesty and airy without any sibilance on the ssss. This FW version makes the U16 the most musical and best *sounding* USB interface I’ve used to date.

V1.61 NFB
To avoid repetition I will just say that this version is between the other two and closer to the original 1.61.

V1.77
Oh man, what a disappointment. I believe that the low end frequencies were the most affected ones by this FW version. The bass is loose, not detailed nor textured. Vocals become a tad sibilant at times (there must be some bias here), the soundstage maintains the size but loses depth and I’m not sure what the highs are doing as I get so distracted and frustrated by the poor bass quality and by the fact that this version was released a month ago and Gustard seems to have ignored the SQ aspect of it.

For reference, the tests were conducted using the following rigs and the results were similar:

Mac Mini server as Roon Core —> U16 (Holo config) —> Holo Spring DAC (via I2S) —> SPL Phonitor X pre-amp —> SPL Performer s800 power amp —> Interface Box —> RAAL-requisite SR1a

Mac Mini server as Roon Core —> U16 (Holo config) —> Holo Spring DAC (via I2S) —> SPL Phonitor X HeadAmp  —> Focal Utopia

Mac Mini server as Roon Core —> U16 (Holo config) —> RME ADI-2 Pro FS DAC (via AES) —> KGSSHV Carbon —> Stax 009S


----------



## wwmhf

Criable said:


> Did you try to cycle the modes. X20 should be gsd


Yes, I did cycle the modes, they are all swapped when v1.61 NFB firmware is used.


----------



## bequietjk

@MrCypruz 

Holo spring DAC?  The one with the copper side panels!?


----------



## bequietjk

For those who have owned/tested XSPDIF2 & U16, what would your preference be?  The USB 3.0 input is very appealing on the X2...


----------



## MrCypruz

bequietjk said:


> @MrCypruz
> 
> Holo spring DAC?  The one with the copper side panels!?


Yes. Link below https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/


----------



## MrCypruz

bequietjk said:


> For those who have owned/tested XSPDIF2 & U16, what would your preference be?  The USB 3.0 input is very appealing on the X2...


I own the SPDIF and it’s no contest for the U16 for SQ. It beats the U16 when it comes to the overall reliability/stable operation. 
The SPDIF sounds too digital and dry to me when compared to the U16 which sweet and musical. Detail retrieval is at the same level for both, U16 soundstage, imaging, bass texture are better presented to my ears. I’ve heard both the SU-1 and SU-6 and as I recall, they’re more inline with the SPDIF (bear in mind that this is from memory) maybe because of the XMOS chip that the 3 share vs the ESS that is in the Gustard??!!


----------



## wwmhf

I have been using U16 with v1.77 firmware for about one hour now. Up-sampling regular wave files ripped from my CD to DSD 512 without any issues so far. Previous firmwares could not do this without pops/crackles.


----------



## Criable (Jul 19, 2019)

wwmhf said:


> I have been using U16 with v1.77 firmware for about one hour now. Up-sampling regular wave files ripped from my CD to DSD 512 without any issues so far. Previous firmwares could not do this without pops/crackles.



Congrats! Wow. It also really goes to show how fussy u16 is on different equipments.

I am using a sotm streamer (linux based) - so may be a problem with linux compatibility


----------



## jimmychan (Jul 19, 2019)

My findings with Roon > RPi3+ > U16 > R7 > M1 > M3

I was using V1. 4 for many months now, only problem was the LR channel swapped.

1.77 has the same problem as 1.61, lots of pops and clicks on sampling rate higher than 96K.

1.61 NFB seems has no problem so far with different sampling rates, the LR channel is correct. Now settled on this version.

Hope this help.


----------



## bequietjk

My system is very finnicky with LT3045's all over the place.  Power delivery and having to connect and reconnect for USB recognition to my DAC (Behringer UMC404HD) is a daily thing.  Perhaps the iFi usb products in my USB line have something to do with it too?  Not too sure.

@MrCypruz 

Could it be that the X2 although unpleasant to your ear in comparison to the U16, is actually more neutral and transparent and is providing you an accurate presentation of your source and DAC output?  Do you feel like the U16 is a more accurate?


----------



## MrCypruz

@MrCypruz

Could it be that the X2 although unpleasant to your ear in comparison to the U16, is actually more neutral and transparent and is providing you an accurate presentation of your source and DAC output?  Do you feel like the U16 is a more accurate?[/QUOTE]

Transparency is my main goal on this hobby but without sacrificing musicality. Present the music the way it is without sounding dry or sterile and that’s what the X2 does on my system with the referred cans. On my system I would say that both the X2 and the U16 on the same level of accuracy but the latter presents it in a smooth, sweet and effortless way. It’s like comparing the THX 789 AAA to the Phonitor X....they’re both very accurate, neutral and clean but the PX is musical and more pleasant to *my* ears and the only reason why I sold my 789. So yeah, accuracy is what I’m after and I just like the U16 presentation better. 
For reference, I heard the U12 (U16’s little brother) and it’s clear that it has a laid back presentation with slightly recessed highs and is also no contest to the U16....but that’s just what _*my *_ears told me and I trust them.


----------



## Criable

jimmychan said:


> 1.61 NFB seems has no problem so far with different sampling rates, the LR channel is correct. Now settled on this version.


 Sq wise do u find it a step up v1.4?


----------



## jimmychan (Jul 19, 2019)

Criable said:


> Sq wise do u find it a step up v1.4?



It has some improvement on the SQ, the sound stage has more depth.


----------



## Criable

jimmychan said:


> It has some improvement on the SQ, its sound stage has more depth.



Thanks Jimmy- I did compare the sq of v1.4 and v1.6 - the latter is clearly better. But I had to stick to v1.4 because of stability issues with v1.6. 

Mrcyprus  compared v1.6 with the 2 newer firmwares and prefers v1.6 over the 2 newer ones. I’ll spend time comparing the firmwares over the weekend


----------



## jimmychan

Criable said:


> Thanks Jimmy- I did compare the sq of v1.4 and v1.6 - the latter is clearly better. But I had to stick to v1.4 because of stability issues with v1.6.
> 
> Mrcyprus  compared v1.6 with the 2 newer firmwares and prefers v1.6 over the 2 newer ones. I’ll spend time comparing the firmwares over the weekend



What kind of DAC are you using?


----------



## Criable (Jul 19, 2019)

jimmychan said:


> What kind of DAC are you using?



Am using a denafrips dac. 
The thing about denafrips dacs is that it can adapt to different i2s protocols throught its setting menu. Therefore I never have any problems with channel swaps.


----------



## FredA

jimmychan said:


> My findings with Roon > RPi3+ > U16 > R7 > M1 > M3
> 
> I was using V1. 4 for many months now, only problem was the LR channel swapped.
> 
> ...



Strange, i had no channel swap using 1.4 feeding my r7...


----------



## PLGA

jimmychan said:


> My findings with Roon > RPi3+ > U16 > R7 > M1 > M3
> 
> I was using V1. 4 for many months now, only problem was the LR channel swapped.
> 
> ...



Hello Jimmy,
Where can I download the V1.61 NFB? Can you provide me the link?

I have the R8 DAC and I've tried V1.61 PSA, but it swapped the channels. So I´ve been using V1.4 PSA for months and works fine with PCM, but if V1.61 NFB works also fine, I would like to try if it could sound better.

Thank you!


----------



## DACLadder

Upgraded from 1.61 to 1.61 NFB.  No noticeable changes in sound using ASIO output mode.

L-R channels are OK with the AGD R7 DAC. And did not need to reset the U16's  I2S output mode to "PSA".  That setting must be stored elsewhere in non-volatile memory.

Random check of sampling rates and they all played up to 384K with 1.61 NFB.


----------



## FredA (Jul 19, 2019)

The sound of 1.61nfb is different from 1.41psa. Better or not, too soon to tell,  but quite enjoyable IMO.


----------



## DACLadder

PLGA said:


> Hello Jimmy, Where can I download the V1.61 NFB? Can you provide me the link



You can download here (GU16V1_61_NFB.rom).... If you need the download software and instructions look in the "Gustard U16 Firmware Download Tools" directory. 
https://onedrive.live.com/?id=636DC4E8060D66A1!380&cid=636DC4E8060D66A1


----------



## PLGA

DACLadder said:


> You can download here (GU16V1_61_NFB.rom).... If you need the download software and instructions look in the "Gustard U16 Firmware Download Tools" directory.
> https://onedrive.live.com/?id=636DC4E8060D66A1!380&cid=636DC4E8060D66A1



Thank you Scott. I will try it today and I hope it sounds better than the V1.4.

Yestarday I made another test comparing the sound of some songs from movies on Netflix, from my Tv via Toslink optical cable to my R8 DAC, vs the same song on Tidal with my USB chain (Audinirvana plus on windows 10 + Audioquest Jitterbug + W4S USB Recloker with LPS + Gustard U16) and I still cannot believe how the Tv can sound so much better, so much analog, than the USB chain. Its incredible. 

I will be on USA for vacations in a couple of months and I will buy the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo or the Sonore Optical Rendu, but I dont want to have ever again, on my system, a PC for music playback. Its garbage the USB signal.


----------



## MrCypruz

[/QUOTE]


PLGA said:


> but I dont want to have ever again, on my system, a PC for music playback. Its garbage the USB signal



I feel your pain, I also found the sound coming from my Windows PC USB signal to be inferior to dedicated streamers/servers (even the cheap ones). After that I tested a few servers/streamers (Blue Sound Node 2i, Blue Sound Vault 2i and Innous Zen Mini MK3) and compared against the Mac Mini  + U16 sound and I was pleasantly surprised by the performance of the Mini +U16 combo and decided to settle there for now.....currently using the Mac Mini Headless with only Ethernet In & 1 USB out connected to the U16 to minimize the amount of noise generated by other components - It sound analog-like to me. If I decide to move on to a dedicated Server it will either be the Innous Zen MK3 or the Zennith MK3 and the Mac Mini will become my little desktop computer.


----------



## ggetzoff

I feel your pain, I also found the sound coming from my Windows PC USB signal to be inferior to dedicated streamers/servers (even the cheap ones). After that I tested a few servers/streamers (Blue Sound Node 2i, Blue Sound Vault 2i and Innous Zen Mini MK3) and compared against the Mac Mini  + U16 sound and I was pleasantly surprised by the performance of the Mini +U16 combo and decided to settle there for now.....currently using the Mac Mini Headless with only Ethernet In & 1 USB out connected to the U16 to minimize the amount of noise generated by other components - It sound analog-like to me. If I decide to move on to a dedicated Server it will either be the Innous Zen MK3 or the Zennith MK3 and the Mac Mini will become my little desktop computer.[/QUOTE]

Try plugging your phone or Ipad with camera adapter as an endpoint into the U16. It has been the best sound of everything I've tried; fanless server with audiophile USB card and many others. 

Cheers,

Greg


----------



## ggetzoff

PLGA said:


> Thank you Scott. I will try it today and I hope it sounds better than the V1.4.
> 
> Yestarday I made another test comparing the sound of some songs from movies on Netflix, from my Tv via Toslink optical cable to my R8 DAC, vs the same song on Tidal with my USB chain (Audinirvana plus on windows 10 + Audioquest Jitterbug + W4S USB Recloker with LPS + Gustard U16) and I still cannot believe how the Tv can sound so much better, so much analog, than the USB chain. Its incredible.
> 
> I will be on USA for vacations in a couple of months and I will buy the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo or the Sonore Optical Rendu, but I dont want to have ever again, on my system, a PC for music playback. Its garbage the USB signal.



Skip Windows 10 server and try your phone or Ipad with camera adapter or Android phone directly to your dac or DDC. You will be really amazed at what a battery powered endpoint sounds like with no wired connection to AC mains via CAT5, wall wart, or LPSU.


Cheers,

Greg


----------



## PLGA

ggetzoff said:


> Skip Windows 10 server and try your phone or Ipad with camera adapter or Android phone directly to your dac or DDC. You will be really amazed at what a battery powered endpoint sounds like with no wired connection to AC mains via CAT5, wall wart, or LPSU.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> ...



Hello Greg,
Thank you for your advice, but I dont fully understand. Can you plugg an Android phone directly to the Gustard U16 and stream music? Really? If so, how exactly?


----------



## PLGA (Jul 19, 2019)

I feel your pain, I also found the sound coming from my Windows PC USB signal to be inferior to dedicated streamers/servers (even the cheap ones). After that I tested a few servers/streamers (Blue Sound Node 2i, Blue Sound Vault 2i and Innous Zen Mini MK3) and compared against the Mac Mini  + U16 sound and I was pleasantly surprised by the performance of the Mini +U16 combo and decided to settle there for now.....currently using the Mac Mini Headless with only Ethernet In & 1 USB out connected to the U16 to minimize the amount of noise generated by other components - It sound analog-like to me. If I decide to move on to a dedicated Server it will either be the Innous Zen MK3 or the Zennith MK3 and the Mac Mini will become my little desktop computer.[/QUOTE]

Well, my Notebook that feeds the USB signal to my conditioners (AQ Jitterbug and W4S RUR) and converter (U16), is connected to Internet via Ethernet cable Cat 8 to a Gigabite switch (both made a diffence in sound against WiFi), but the Tv is connected "with WiFi" and the Toslink signal to my DAC has NO treatment what so ever, only a cheap Amazon cable!! And the difference in sound is bigger than the difference provided by the U16 in the USB chain. I mean, its not subtle at all and cannot be compensated with the U16, not even close.

Does really a Mac Mini provides a clean USB signal? Cleaner or similar to a dedicated streamer? I find it hard to believe as it is a not audio dedicated computer.

How does the Mac Mini sound compared to a cheap streamer (Bluesound Note for instance)?


----------



## ggetzoff

PLGA said:


> Hello Greg,
> Thank you for your advice, but I dont fully understand. Can you plugg an Android phone directly to the Gustard U16 and stream music? Really? If so, how exactly?



Yes, you can. You will need USB Audio player Pro app or Roon.


----------



## Alcophone

PLGA said:


> Yestarday I made another test comparing the sound of some songs from movies on Netflix, from my Tv via Toslink optical cable to my R8 DAC, vs the same song on Tidal with my USB chain (Audinirvana plus on windows 10 + Audioquest Jitterbug + W4S USB Recloker with LPS + Gustard U16) and I still cannot believe how the Tv can sound so much better, so much analog, than the USB chain. Its incredible.


To clarify, your TV has songs from unknown masters, treated with unknown DSP filters, probably resampled to 48 kHz, and you're comparing them to what you get straight from Tidal? I would try to play the same song from the same YouTube video on both the TV and the laptop if you can, or the same Spotify song (though your TV will likely resample that to 48 kHz). Otherwise you don't know what it is that's making it sound better. Does your TV have an EQ that maybe isn't turned off?


----------



## PLGA

Alcophone said:


> To clarify, your TV has songs from unknown masters, treated with unknown DSP filters, probably resampled to 48 kHz, and you're comparing them to what you get straight from Tidal? I would try to play the same song from the same YouTube video on both the TV and the laptop if you can, or the same Spotify song (though your TV will likely resample that to 48 kHz). Otherwise you don't know what it is that's making it sound better. Does your TV have an EQ that maybe isn't turned off?



Hi Alcophone
Im not an expert, but I've been playing around with upgrades (cables, components, sources ,etc) and music formats some time and I think the difference in sound cannot be caused by the mastering or the version of the song on Tidal vs Netflix.

Its so clear that I notice it even in songs that I dont hear in Tidal. I mean the sound is so much better that I can easily notice it with out making a A/B song comparison. On my computer and USB rig I've listened to several formats and sources (Hi Res PCM, Reedbock PCM, MQA, Spotify Premium, etc) and no difference between this formats cames close to the one Im talking about. 

I would say the sound from the Tv rig has substantial better bass (the impact is increibly deep and strong), the speakers totally disappear (the do it with the USB rig, but not in the same way) and most of all the sounds has no sibilance. 

Of course these differences where not that obvious before I found them, but I was looking for something to complete the sound of my system as I found it close, but not perfect yet. I didnt know what was it until now. I also used to believe that my USB rig could compete with any decent streamer, I dont think so anymore. I have to try it yet, but Im sure a good streamet will better the sound of my Tv rig and will give me that sound I was missing somehow with out knowing what was it.


----------



## PLGA

Im sorry, I forgot to mention that the Tv has no upsampling or EQ running.

I also tried Dirac Room Correction on my notebook and upsampling with Audinirvana+. Dirac made a big difference that I liked before, but then I found it flat sounding, lean and boring and I dont find a big difference (if any) upsumpling with A+, may be due to more PC internal processing that adds jitter, so I dont change the sample rates to minimize PC internal work.


----------



## Alcophone

PLGA said:


> Hi Alcophone
> Im not an expert, but I've been playing around with upgrades (cables, components, sources ,etc) and music formats some time and I think the difference in sound cannot be caused by the mastering or the version of the song on Tidal vs Netflix.
> 
> Its so clear that I notice it even in songs that I dont hear in Tidal. I mean the sound is so much better that I can easily notice it with out making a A/B song comparison. On my computer and USB rig I've listened to several formats and sources (Hi Res PCM, Reedbock PCM, MQA, Spotify Premium, etc) and no difference between this formats cames close to the one Im talking about.
> ...


I can't help but think that your TV is simply EQ-ing the sound. Did you go through all its settings?
Would also be interesting to connect your laptop to your TV via HDMI and send it audio this way, then optical from there as you've done before.


----------



## Alcophone

PLGA said:


> Im sorry, I forgot to mention that the Tv has no upsampling or EQ running.
> 
> I also tried Dirac Room Correction on my notebook and upsampling with Audinirvana+. Dirac made a big difference that I liked before, but then I found it flat sounding, lean and boring and I dont find a big difference (if any) upsumpling with A+, may be due to more PC internal processing that adds jitter, so I dont change the sample rates to minimize PC internal work.


Sorry, saw that after my post above.


----------



## PLGA

Alcophone said:


> Sorry, saw that after my post above.



That's ok. Thank you for your advice anyway.

I will try the sound of the USB Audio Player Pro app on my Android phone connected to my USB rig, as suggested by Greg.

It's not a big investment (only 7 dollars) and, who knows, I could be surprised. Some times we make incredible discoverings in this "crazy" audiophile jouney!!


----------



## DACLadder (Jul 19, 2019)

I’m going to give the U16 with “Camera” USB adapter a try.  Would really like to eliminate the Windows computer.  Found an iOS adapter on Amazon (favorable reviews) with a split cable so I can charge simultaneously if needed.  < $15 is my kind of price!    Search Amazon “rvokoms 2 in 1 otg”.


----------



## PLGA

DACLadder said:


> I’m going to give the U16 with “Camera” USB adapter a try.  Would really like to eliminate the Windows computer.  Found an iOS adapter on Amazon (favorable reviews) with a split cable so I can charge simultaneously if needed.  < $15 is my kind of price!    Search Amazon “rvokoms 2 in 1 otg”.



Hello Scott
Do you listen to your music with Windows 10 sending the USB signal to your USB conditioners and/or converters a I do?   What software do you use?   Do you stream music or do you listen to songs stored in your PC?

If your set up is similar as mine and if you have a Tv connected to your Audio-GD DAC with Toslink as I do, I can advice you to make one simple test on your USB rig vs your Tv. There's one song in one film that the pointed out the difference in my system very easily.


----------



## DACLadder

@PLGA  I have a music server and use Foobar to play tunes.  The PC has a JCAT PCIe USB 2.0 board to drive the DACs.  Plus JCAT allows me to use a linear power supply to provide USB +5V to downstream devices that need power like the Singxers.  Everything sounds great but my PC is 5+ yrs. old and I do not want to replace when it dies.  Plus tired of firing up the PC to just listen to tunes.  And would like to get a 2nd audio system going in another room is the real motivator right now.

For TV listening I just use a sound-bar and want to keep it simple for others that use it. The sound-bar connects via real HDMI ARC (audio return channel).


----------



## bequietjk (Jul 19, 2019)

I've disconnected the USB cable from my PC and used a USB-C to USB-B to connect my LG V20 phone to my ISO REGEN and it worked just fine.  Play the muaic and it goes through, from ISO REGEN>SINGXERF1>DAC.  My experience is that my phone sound slightly more focused and refined than the PC/WIN10 config.  Its a goal im actually working towards with my PC, to make it have that edge that my phone has.  But it isnt significant imo.  My Paul Pang V2 USB card could be playing a big role here, too.


----------



## ggetzoff

bequietjk said:


> I've disconnected the USB cable from my PC and used a USB-C to USB-B to connect my LG V20 phone to my ISO REGEN and it worked just fine.  Play the muaic and it goes through, from ISO REGEN>SINGXERF1>DAC.  My experience is that my phone sound slightly more focused and refined than the PC/WIN10 config.  Its a goal im actually working towards with my PC, to make it have that edge that my phone has.  But it isnt significant imo.  My Paul Pang V2 USB card could be playing a big role here, too.



That's how I used to run things with a V20. Try the phone directly connected to the DAC and tell us what you hear.

Cheers,

Greg


----------



## bequietjk

Will do!  Actually, if the SQ is better or equal plugged atraight into the DAC i may just sell my IR.


----------



## MrCypruz

PLGA said:


> Well, my Notebook that feeds the USB signal to my conditioners (AQ Jitterbug and W4S RUR) and converter (U16), is connected to Internet via Ethernet cable Cat 8 to a Gigabite switch (both made a diffence in sound against WiFi), but the Tv is connected "with WiFi" and the Toslink signal to my DAC has NO treatment what so ever, only a cheap Amazon cable!! And the difference in sound is bigger than the difference provided by the U16 in the USB chain. I mean, its not subtle at all and cannot be compensated with the U16, not even close.
> 
> Does really a Mac Mini provides a clean USB signal? Cleaner or similar to a dedicated streamer? I find it hard to believe as it is a not audio dedicated computer.
> 
> How does the Mac Mini sound compared to a cheap streamer (Bluesound Note for instance)?



@PLGA  Yes the Mac Mini USB is cleaner than my windows PC and MacBook, I would say that the differences are easily audible! It's on par with some cheap streamers or not that far off when you're running it bare bones (Headless with a good power cable, Ethernet and 1 USB out, everything else off).

Compared to the Blue Sound Node 2i, the Mac Mini sound a little bit more forward and "in your face" while the 2i sounds a tad smoother but it's NOT a night and day difference. Give the Mac Mini a try if time and money allows then share your thoughts.


----------



## bequietjk

Geez it's really hard to tell.

With the LG V20 directly into the DAC it suonds more dynamic but I cannot determine whether it is because it is more distorted causing the more lively dynamic sound.  With it plugged into the ISO Regen connected to the DAC it sounds more neutral and less sibilant, allowing me to turn it up just a bit more.

Using PC as source the sound seems to be more digital, unfortunately.


----------



## ggetzoff

bequietjk said:


> Geez it's really hard to tell.
> 
> With the LG V20 directly into the DAC it suonds more dynamic but I cannot determine whether it is because it is more distorted causing the more lively dynamic sound.  With it plugged into the ISO Regen connected to the DAC it sounds more neutral and less sibilant, allowing me to turn it up just a bit more.
> 
> Using PC as source the sound seems to be more digital, unfortunately.



My V20 into Regen into DAC is the best in my system. Most neutral and least digital sounding, with widest soundstage. I sold my Singxer SU-1 when I discovered this and stopped using my server.


----------



## MrCypruz (Jul 19, 2019)

ggetzoff said:


> Try plugging your phone or Ipad with camera adapter as an endpoint into the U16. It has been the best sound of everything I've tried; fanless server with audiophile USB card and many others.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Greg




I just bought the cheapest Ipad WiFI (6th Gen) 32 GB as I was planning to use it as remote control for my Mac Mini Server. Currently testing the iPad as a Roon Endpoint (Mac Mini as the Core) and the iPad sounds more mellow and smoother than the Mac Mini. Not sure if it is because of a potential weaker signal going into the U16 when compared to the Mac Mini or because of potentially less distortion due to the significantly less amount of components on the board.... The Mac Mini sounds louder and more accentuated treble/ perceived details (which could be an indication of some distortion, maybe???) than the iPad but after a few hours into it, I've not been able to make up my mind. Will continue with this experiment and will report back.
PS. I need the U16 to be my interface for my 3 DACs and 1 pair of LS50W so I can't remove it from the chain yet.


----------



## bequietjk

On the subject of using PC as source, does anyone else have experience with Fidelizer/Pro?  I have regular Fidelizer and I feel it helps Spotify.


----------



## bequietjk

So I just took out my iDefender that was plugged into the iSilencer plugged into my USB card.  Put the iDefender after the ISO Regen and the iSilencer remains at the USB card in the PC.

It might just be this Papa Murphy's pizza talking but dang Steely Dan is sounding great right now.

Had to share that lol


----------



## bequietjk

@MrCypruz Sorry for not giving my thoughts with the Singxer F-1 in the chain.

I blew up my F-1 and Khadas Tone Board DAC accidently with a 9V about a month ago!


----------



## ggetzoff

bequietjk said:


> @MrCypruz Sorry for not giving my thoughts with the Singxer F-1 in the chain.
> 
> I blew up my F-1 and Khadas Tone Board DAC accidently with a 9V about a month ago!



Describe how and what happened. How did you smoke both? Both can probably be fixed.


----------



## jimmychan (Jul 20, 2019)

My setup with a RPi3B+ and U16 is comparable as good as a dCS Network Bridge which is 13 times more expensive.


----------



## bequietjk

@ggetzoff 

So my chain went like this

PC > ISO REGEN > iDefender(powered by external LPS 9V which I thought was 5V) > Singxer F-1 > Khadas Tone Board

My theory is the 9V affected the F-1 in that my PC will not recognize it anymore amd the Tone Board will not stay on more than 1 second.

The weird part is that from F-1 to Tone Board is digital coax!  Could those 9V transfer from the idefender through the F-1 into the Tone Board?  I dont know.  But neither seem to be functional.


----------



## Criable

jimmychan said:


> My setup with a RPi3B+ and U16 is comparable good as a dCS Network Bridge which is 13 times more expensive.



Out of curiosity - have you done an a/b comparison between the dCS and Rpi + U16?
Want to hear your impression


----------



## jimmychan

Criable said:


> Out of curiosity - have you done an a/b comparison between the dCS and Rpi + U16?
> Want to hear your impression



It’s hardly to tell the differences with switching A/B back and forth.


----------



## lucianpescaru (Jul 20, 2019)

In my case the 1.77 firmware randomly switches channels using the AES output or any other spdif out. Fixed syncronization for videos but meh.

1.61 NFB seems to have the video sync ok, and channels are not swapped.


----------



## motberg

roni44 said:


> Oh man, sorry to hear, since I live on the 11th floor apartment, my reception might be much easier to lock onto. I did ask the local user whom suggested the 10mhz clock, himself did buy a longer antenna to get the signal. I do hope the new antenna will work out for you.


my ebay seller had the 10M antenna available so hopefully no problem....
I will be traveling for a few weeks, so will report back the results when I return.
thanks again for the heads-up on this device


----------



## Criable

lucianpescaru said:


> In my case the 1.77 firmware randomly switches channels using the AES output or any other spdif out. Fixed syncronization for videos but meh.
> 
> 1.61 NFB seems to have the video sync ok, and channels are not swapped.



Tested on 2 setup - 1.77 is not stable on both. I find v1.61 NFB better than v1.4 on SQ. Stability wise 1.61 nfb and 1.4 are similar. 

Find it strange that Gustard didn’t officially release the firmware through the proper channel. Instead - they released via Headfi. Maybe - get us to test it for them first


----------



## DACLadder

I still have a few issues with 1.61 NFB using my old PC.  Nothing new or fixed.  Mostly songs of different sampling rates sometimes require a restart to get audio.  Sound quality is very good though but no better that the older 1.61. 

Yesterday I connected my iPad to the U16 (via an old Schiiit USB Decrapifier) and it worked first try!  Cute... but looks like files get converted to 44.1kHz.  Sound quality had typical downsampled sound - less dynamics and pop, narrow soundstage, etc. Finding a compatible iOS player app is a challenge as well.   

I need to get my Allo Usbridge repaired. I may just buy a new one.  It is the most affordable way for me go PC-less for audio.  The Usbridge sounded good when it worked and Volumio is an OK player once you get it setup.  Aurender looks interesting but the price $$$.. I don't need onboard storage. I just want to play from a music server (NAS).


----------



## bos3812

Criable said:


> Congrats! Wow. It also really goes to show how fussy u16 is on different equipments.
> 
> I am using a sotm streamer (linux based) - so may be a problem with linux compatibility


Hello Criable, I also have a Sotm SMS-200 Ultra Neo and use my modified Singxer SU-1 at this moment. I have plans to buy the Gustard U-16 but saw you have problems with it together with the Sotm. I will only use a coaxial digital cable because my Ayon CD-1SE doesn't have an I2S input. I only play PCM files from tidal and directly from my NAS on which I programmed Minimserver. Can you tell me if you also have problems when you play PCM files through SPDIF output? Are there more members who had problems with a Sotm streamer? I have read the message from another member with a Linux based streamer without problems. So, the question is if Linux is the cause of your problems.


----------



## Criable (Jul 22, 2019)

bos3812 said:


> Hello Criable, I also have a Sotm SMS-200 Ultra Neo and use my modified Singxer SU-1 at this moment. I have plans to buy the Gustard U-16 but saw you have problems with it together with the Sotm. I will only use a coaxial digital cable because my Ayon CD-1SE doesn't have an I2S input. I only play PCM files from tidal and directly from my NAS on which I programmed Minimserver. Can you tell me if you also have problems when you play PCM files through SPDIF output? Are there more members who had problems with a Sotm streamer? I have read the message from another member with a Linux based streamer without problems. So, the question is if Linux is the cause of your problems.



If you are using sms ultra neo with u16 - firmware v1.61 and v1.77 dont work well at all. V1.77 is worst of it all. Cracks and pops galore. V1.61 dun work with higher bitrate.

Firmware V1.4 and v1.61 nfb works though. However there are pops whenever there is a change from high bitrate to low. For me its acceptable. Works fine with spdif too (tested it with coax only)

I’ve mated su1 with the sms200 ultra neo before - it is problem free. With u16 - u need the right firmware. Sq wise u16 is definitely better than su1. With u16 - its about finding the correct firmware that will work for your setup

Since you have a modded su1 - not sure how big an improvement the u16 will bring to the table. Other members here had heavily modded their su1 and reported that u16 still sounds better - have not tested it myself - so cannot confirm their findings.

Had 2 other friends using the sotm trifecta + u16 and surprisingly - with the addition of sotm’s txusb ultra (i.e. part of the trifecta) v1.61 works perfectly. (v1.61 doesn’t work well with the ultra neo by itself). Therefore I’ve stated that u16 is extremely fussy with the equipment chain - and sometimes it befuddles me how a small change in the setup can make or break u16. Hope that helps.

Short answer - YES - it will work with sotm ultra neo (on i2s and spdif) but you’ll need to experiment it with different firmwares


----------



## Criable

DACLadder said:


> I need to get my Allo Usbridge repaired. I may just buy a new one. It is the most affordable way for me go PC-less for audio. The Usbridge sounded good when it worked and Volumio is an OK player once you get it setup. Aurender looks interesting but the price $$$.. I don't need onboard storage. I just want to play from a music server (NAS).



Have you considered having your allo repaired AND at the same time get another powerful SBC to run a music server?

I happened to have an Odroid N2 which I got for retro gaming. Felt a tiny bit adventurous one afternoon - hooked a linear power supply to the Odroid and installed dietpi with LMS on it. I’ve also pointed the Odroid to my NAS music library. Quite happy with the result


----------



## roni44

lucianpescaru said:


> In my case the 1.77 firmware randomly switches channels using the AES output or any other spdif out. Fixed syncronization for videos but meh.
> 
> 1.61 NFB seems to have the video sync ok, and channels are not swapped.



1.61NFB didn't fix my video sync issue with I2S, and U16 randomly restart more often than 1.61.


----------



## m usicguy (Jul 23, 2019)

So anyone use this u16 with a mac mini yet?  JRiver?

And how easy are firmware updates?

I have a u12.    I need a new usb spdif converter.

I have eitr gen 5.  How does it compare?

Musicguy


----------



## DACLadder

@Criable  Interesting ideas.  I have considered a lot of things and keeping my eye out.  But no issue with my 4-5 yr. old Synology NAS (DS214).  Near instantaneous access, runs autonomously, and even sends me alert Emails.  Never any issues. The only bottleneck was initially when I had a 100Mbit Ethernet switch in the loop.  Swapped to a Gigabit switch and performance improved dramatically.  The NAS CPU (1Ghz) bounces between 10 - 20% usage playing hi rez audio.  Video on my NAS machine probably wouldn't cut it by today's standard but perfect for audio.


----------



## rtop84

1.61NFB is step in right direction - on the Linux (Allo UsbBridge + GentooPlayer OS) can play PCM up 768kHz without problems and DSD up to 256 DoP mode but only 44.1k based freq.


----------



## roni44

m usicguy said:


> So anyone use this u16 with a mac mini yet?  JRiver?
> 
> And how easy are firmware updates?
> 
> ...



Not sure about Eitr Gen 5, I use MacBook Pro with Audirvana 3.5 and stream Tidal Hifi, FW 1.61 U16 will restart itself sometimes when change songs, youtube lipsync, other than that, it's pretty good. Firmware update is pretty straight forward, but I think you need windows/PC to do so.


----------



## Ludique (Oct 25, 2020)

The U16 can be very sensitive when stacked on top of other equipment.  I would advice against stacking the poor little U16 on anything.


----------



## wushuliu (Jul 24, 2019)

FredA said:


> Yes, i know. Stil can't get why it matters but the direction makes a difference in general. Haven't played with it with the u16.



Two additional tweaks:

Wrap the middle of the fuse with Teflon tape for damping (cheap, can buy at any hardware store)

Use Fo.Q thick damping sheet. Very popular and extremely effective Japanese product. I've used them for years. You can also find cheaper thinner version, but the SH-21 works best.

Also, try ceramic fuses like Cooper Bussman instead of regular glass fuses if you don't want to spend $$$ on boutique.


----------



## wushuliu (Jul 24, 2019)

Reading this thread it seems like despite the issues a lot of people are still willing to use the U16 because of the sound quality. My main use would be as a USB/SPDIF converter. So far only one person has expressed issues with that I think. The rest are I2S/AES related. Is that correct?

Also has anyone checked the heat temperatures of the components inside? Sounds like it gets quite warm.


----------



## Jabba

@wushuliu , I have 0 problems with u16 on USB to spdif conversion.
Tried both toslink and coax with audirvana to a vintage dac.


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## wushuliu

Jabba said:


> @wushuliu , I have 0 problems with u16 on USB to spdif conversion.
> Tried both toslink and coax with audirvana to a vintage dac.



Thanks Jabba.


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## roni44 (Jul 25, 2019)

Ludique said:


> The U16 can be very sensitive when stacked on top of other equipment.
> 
> I put it on top of my PS Audio jr dac which has a perspex top, and the U16 wouldn't play. It even had a text on the display when completely turned off. It was getting wireless power from the dac!
> 
> That's of course because of the perspex cover of PS Audio dac not isolating anything under it, but I would advice against stacking the poor little U16 on anything.



THANK YOU, THANK YOU AND THANK YOU, for as long as I've owned U16, and I always have this problem where voice is playing louder from my right speaker. I have done everything I could to trouble shoot the problem, including swapping cables, wires, speakers and etc, nothing seem to solve the problem (so I ended click the balance option few clicks to the left to make the voice center, but still feel more sound is coming from the right). So I thought there is an issue with my Micromega M100 or my Martin Logan speaker or room acoustics. Then after reading your post, I've always stack my Apple Airport express on top of U16, sure enough, I moved airport express as far away from U16 and VIOLA, it's perfectly balanced now. I concur U16 is very sensitive and do not stack anything on top of it or underneath.


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## Alcophone

I'm wondering when they release the beta version of this product, because it's clearly still an alpha release for early testing. </snark>


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## UsoppNoKami

Alcophone said:


> I'm wondering when they release the beta version of this product, because it's clearly still an alpha release for early testing. </snark>



Alpha is generous. Seems more like engineering sample for proof of concept


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## wushuliu

Alcophone said:


> I'm wondering when they release the beta version of this product, because it's clearly still an alpha release for early testing. </snark>



Given the 6 to 12 month turnaround cycle for DACs and related components these days, that's not likely to happen. Here's the scenario as I see it so far: Gustard got their hands on a discarded USB ESS chip for cheap, got some good sounding results compared to the competition, and made a product around it. Done. Presumably ESS abandoned production on these chips for a reason, and that reason may be why these units have issues. These types of China-direct components just don't have the technical support and resources to improve software issues. If they did, they would cost a LOT more. As it is, the U16 is till cheaper than a SU-1 and only a little more than the diminutive Singxer F1. In 6 months there will be another product so why spend time and money to fix this one?

What interests me about the U16 is that despite the issues the feedback has been so positive that people seem willing to endure the potential instability for the sound quality. The ESS chip design is a unique choice that we may never see again or if we do at a potentially higher price given the performance. So the U16 could be something of a quirky 'collector's' item, an unusual bang for the buck product based on a one-off experiment.


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## Criable

@teatime888 will you be able to ask Gustard if they’ll be releasing any new firmwares for u16
The previous 2 versions that you had gracefully shared are buggy. 
1.61nfb resets itself once in a while even when not playing
1.71 - simply unstable

Since you have some form of contact with Gustard - will you be able to help ask about it?
Also Gustard didn’t officially release the 2 newer versions - so am expecting they are still fine tuning their releases.

Thanks so much


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## Ludique (Jul 25, 2019)

1.61nfb resetting is not a common problem, mine has been stable for many days.

One thing which may cause problems like resetting (and who knows the stacking problems too) is that the digital output grounds are connected to chassis earth.


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## Criable (Jul 25, 2019)

Ludique said:


> One thing which may cause problems like resetting (and who knows the stacking problems too) is that the digital output grounds are connected to chassis earth.



Oic - I am using the entreq ground box. Connected one ground cable to u16 digital output. Will that be the cause?


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## lucianpescaru (Jul 25, 2019)

Maybe put anti-parallel diodes and a an 10nf cap to ground?  I'm about to try this. This can be done outside the box itself and a nice EMI filter too... and forgot about the 10nf cap but what the heck  It seems to sound better this way.




That's the emi filter and the chord connected to it goes to the U16. As I don't believe in expensive power chords but I use emi filters for all my low power equipment.


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## lucianpescaru (Jul 27, 2019)

Ludique said:


> 1.61nfb resetting is not a common problem, mine has been stable for many days.



1.61 NFB stable confirmed too. 1.77 sounds really better but left-right random switching makes me crazy... anybody from gustard reading this?


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## Ludique (Jul 25, 2019)

As far as I know i.e. SU-1 and Eitr keep digital output grounds separate from chassis ground. There probably is a good reason for that. Both also galvanically isolate the processing chip which could be the reason.


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## Criable (Jul 25, 2019)

Ludique said:


> Both also galvanically isolate the processing chip which could be the reason.



Ah— am using uptone iso regen and their lps 1-2 into u16. Galvanic isolation of the audio signal is one of the key features with uptone. If the random reset is due to that - then wow - this u16 is really bloody freaking fussy about the partnering equipments.

Anyone using the uptone iso regen + lps1-2 combo with u16 having the same random reset problems (even when there is no music playing?).


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## Ludique (Jul 26, 2019)

Well, yes. I used to have those problems with this combo: Auralic Aries > ISO Regen with LPS1 >U16>spdif to my Hegel amp. 

I now have a different combination with the ISO Regen and it's no longer a problem.


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## Criable

Ludique said:


> I now have a different combination with the ISO Regen and it's no longer a problem.



Thanks for this piece of information @Ludique 
So I assumed the iso regen is still in the chain - just that its not directly feeding the u16. And because of this new arrangement - no more problem with random reset


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## Ludique (Jul 26, 2019)

Sorry to say, but during the night my U16 did reset itself. And a few hours ago again. After several days without any problems.

And the ISO Regen is directly feeding it. I just use a different streamer and dac now.


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## bos3812

Criable said:


> If you are using sms ultra neo with u16 - firmware v1.61 and v1.77 dont work well at all. V1.77 is worst of it all. Cracks and pops galore. V1.61 dun work with higher bitrate.
> 
> Firmware V1.4 and v1.61 nfb works though. However there are pops whenever there is a change from high bitrate to low. For me its acceptable. Works fine with spdif too (tested it with coax only)
> 
> ...



Hello Criable, thank you for your answer. Yesterday I recieved my Gustard U16. When I connected it to the Sotm and started it I indeed heard constantly soft ticks through the music. After installing the nfb version it didn't change. Between the Sotm and the Gustard I have a pair of Icrons 2304GE-lan, comparable with the PS Audio LanRover. When I took them out the ticks were gone. Like you said, I also have, sometimes very loud, plops between the songs when changing bit resolution. I also hear sometimes a soft hissing sound when changing songs. Do I like the sound, cold out of the box? Yes and no. When I compare it with my slightly modified Singxer (I removed the PSU and use a HDplex 200W to feed it, which makes it a lot better) the Gustard is much smoother, but the Gustard lacks some air, space and detail. This is compared with the Singxer included the Icrons. But, like I said, the Gustard comes cold out of the box, which makes the comparison a little useless. It's regrettable I can't use my Icron's with the Gustard. I will give the Gustards some time and I will compare it with the Singxer without the Icrons. I will report this in a few days.


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## Criable (Jul 31, 2019)

bos3812 said:


> Hello Criable, thank you for your answer. Yesterday I recieved my Gustard U16. When I connected it to the Sotm and started it I indeed heard constantly soft ticks through the music. After installing the nfb version it didn't change. Between the Sotm and the Gustard I have a pair of Icrons 2304GE-lan, comparable with the PS Audio LanRover. When I took them out the ticks were gone. Like you said, I also have, sometimes very loud, plops between the songs when changing bit resolution. I also hear sometimes a soft hissing sound when changing songs. Do I like the sound, cold out of the box? Yes and no. When I compare it with my slightly modified Singxer (I removed the PSU and use a HDplex 200W to feed it, which makes it a lot better) the Gustard is much smoother, but the Gustard lacks some air, space and detail. This is compared with the Singxer included the Icrons. But, like I said, the Gustard comes cold out of the box, which makes the comparison a little useless. It's regrettable I can't use my Icron's with the Gustard. I will give the Gustards some time and I will compare it with the Singxer without the Icrons. I will report this in a few days.



Np at all @bos3812
Please do update your sotm’s firmware to v4.6 AND after that update the kernel - sotm made some changes to the kernel so it may help
You may also want to check your settings - I mainly use LMS, sometimes MPD and May from SOTM suggested some settings/configurations

I also use something in between sotm and U16 - its the Uptone ISO Regen (powered by LPS1-2, provides galvanic isolation and reclocks digital signal) - no far no problem except for some random reboots which I mentioned in my earlier post

U16 doesn’t need the 5v from the source’s usb signal - therefore if there are ways to turn it off (some equipments allow that) - please also try that. 
Gustard takes sometime to run in - so running in longer should yield some sonic improvement
Will be also good to change to an audiophile grade fuse - makes quite a significant difference in my setup

Happy listening buddy


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## bos3812

Criable said:


> Np at all @bos3812
> Please do update your sotm’s firmware to v4.6 AND after that update the kernel - sotm made some changes to the kernel so it may help
> You may also want to check your settings - I mainly use LMS, sometimes MPD and May from SOTM suggested some settings/configurations
> 
> ...



My Sotm uses the latest v4.6 software and I use MPD. The bad news is that my Gustard started ticking again after playing about two hours of music. Not so much as with the Icrons in between but enough to spoil your music. I will try a few things but I am afraid the Gustard and the Sotm are not made for each other. I hoped I belonged to the lucky ones who has no problems with the Gustard and I wished the Singxer had the smoothness of the Gustard in combination with the openness, detail and air of the Singxer. If I do not succeed to solve most of the problems I will send the unit back. Maybe there will come a day Gustard can solve all these bugs. That could be a reason for me to come back on it, but for now Gustard has a lot of work to do. To bring buggy units on the market can ruïn their name. I hope they realize that. It's a shame that they cover themselves in silence.


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## wushuliu (Jul 31, 2019)

FYI: To block USB power when plugging into a component try cutting a small sliver of electrical tape and put it over the VCC/Power pin. Or if you have a cheap cable, cut it open and disconnect the VCC/power wire.


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## Monolithic

bos3812 said:


> My Sotm uses the latest v4.6 software and I use MPD.



The changes for the U16 interface are in the kernel.  Updating the software is not the same as updating the kernel.


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## Criable

Monolithic said:


> The changes for the U16 interface are in the kernel.  Updating the software is not the same as updating the kernel.



From what I know - the latest sotm’s v4.6 image does not contain the updated kernel. You’ll need to manually update the kernel. 

May (sotm) gave me the following value to test with mpd - maybe help to you

auido buffer size : 5 ~ 10
Stay with buffer before play at 0
Stay with buffer time at 0.5
Period time : 5~10


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## bos3812

Criable said:


> From what I know - the latest sotm’s v4.6 image does not contain the updated kernel. You’ll need to manually update the kernel.
> 
> May (sotm) gave me the following value to test with mpd - maybe help to you
> 
> ...



Criable and Monolitic, you were right. The latest update asks to manually update the kernel. I have done that right now and I will change the values as recommended by May. This evening I will test the Gustard again. Hope it will help. Thanks guys for help.


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## Criable

bos3812 said:


> Criable and Monolitic, you were right. The latest update asks to manually update the kernel. I have done that right now and I will change the values as recommended by May. This evening I will test the Gustard again. Hope it will help. Thanks guys for help.



Np at all @bos3812 
If all else fails - try firmware v1.41
Good luck


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## bos3812

bos3812 said:


> Criable and Monolitic, you were right. The latest update asks to manually update the kernel. I have done that right now and I will change the values as recommended by May. This evening I will test the Gustard again. Hope it will help. Thanks guys for help.



It didn't work. When I started the music everything went well but after half an hour or so the ticks and stutter were back. I did not try version 1.4 of the software because a few members found out that version 1.61 did sound better. I tried the Gustard again with the Icrons in between and tried to ignore the constant ticks. This gives a much better sound, much more detail, air and openness. In this case the Gustard is better than the Singxer. The Icrons 2304GE lan gives the Singxer the air and detail I hear. The difference (with and without the Icrons) is stunning. This is really a shame because I could have a great DDC when the Gustard could work together with the Icrons. But it doesn't, sadly. I can't miss the Icrons. They are important for me. At this moment I have no solution anymore. If someone has an idea I love to hear that.


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## wushuliu (Jul 31, 2019)

I've had the U16 for a couple days. First off, I can't seem to find out my firmware. The firmware upgrade program just shows my current firmware as blank. I followed the driver install instructions in the manual and that seems fine although I guess I didn't need to because I have Windows 10? I downloaded the special Thesycon driver mentioned in this thread but can't seem to install it. It's all a little confusing. If I'm just using SPDIF out do I even need them?

Anyways, don't know what firmware I have but it does sound really really good. No pops or clicks when using standard Windows audio settings. I haven't run it consecutively for hours in that mode but so far so good. However, I prefer to use Jplay for my Tidal listening using Hifi Cable as my patch between the two. Unlike Xmos-based USB inputs, the U16 has a hard time allowing me to use the lowest latency settings and highest Jplay settings. That's when the pops and clicks happen. Which is too bad because it sounds *excellent* otherwise at those settings. If I scale back the buffer settings in the Gustard Interface window to say 2048 samples and bump Jplay down to 200Hz it seems to be okay. In other words it may be of benefit for PC-based users to play with the buffer settings (which they should be doing anyway to get best sound quality).

I will give it more time to see if the pops and clicks occur at the lower latency settings. If anyone has suggestions as to how to figure out the firmware update showing up blank that would be great.[EDIT: Figured out the firmware: 1.61]


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## Criable

bos3812 said:


> It didn't work. When I started the music everything went well but after half an hour or so the ticks and stutter were back. I did not try version 1.4 of the software because a few members found out that version 1.61 did sound better. I tried the Gustard again with the Icrons in between and tried to ignore the constant ticks. This gives a much better sound, much more detail, air and openness. In this case the Gustard is better than the Singxer. The Icrons 2304GE lan gives the Singxer the air and detail I hear. The difference (with and without the Icrons) is stunning. This is really a shame because I could have a great DDC when the Gustard could work together with the Icrons. But it doesn't, sadly. I can't miss the Icrons. They are important for me. At this moment I have no solution anymore. If someone has an idea I love to hear that.



Please do give 1.41 a try - it’ll still sound better than su1 I believe. Apologies about your situation- didn’t know you have the Icrons back then when I replied to your question about u16 partnering with sotm.


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## roni44

wushuliu said:


> I've had the U16 for a couple days. First off, I can't seem to find out my firmware. The firmware upgrade program just shows my current firmware as blank. I followed the driver install instructions in the manual and that seems fine although I guess I didn't need to because I have Windows 10? I downloaded the special Thesycon driver mentioned in this thread but can't seem to install it. It's all a little confusing. If I'm just using SPDIF out do I even need them?
> 
> Anyways, don't know what firmware I have but it does sound really really good. No pops or clicks when using standard Windows audio settings. I haven't run it consecutively for hours in that mode but so far so good. However, I prefer to use Jplay for my Tidal listening using Hifi Cable as my patch between the two. Unlike Xmos-based USB inputs, the U16 has a hard time allowing me to use the lowest latency settings and highest Jplay settings. That's when the pops and clicks happen. Which is too bad because it sounds *excellent* otherwise at those settings. If I scale back the buffer settings in the Gustard Interface window to say 2048 samples and bump Jplay down to 200Hz it seems to be okay. In other words it may be of benefit for PC-based users to play with the buffer settings (which they should be doing anyway to get best sound quality).
> 
> I will give it more time to see if the pops and clicks occur at the lower latency settings. If anyone has suggestions as to how to figure out the firmware update showing up blank that would be great.[EDIT: Figured out the firmware: 1.61]



Use a pc download Gustard U16 FW upgrade zip, after installation, plug your U16 to the pc and it will show you the firmware. Here is the tutorial: https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/Gustard U16 firmware upgrade tutorial V1.2.pdf


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## wushuliu

roni44 said:


> Use a pc download Gustard U16 FW upgrade zip, after installation, plug your U16 to the pc and it will show you the firmware. Here is the tutorial: https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/Gustard U16 firmware upgrade tutorial V1.2.pdf



Thanks, I figured it out after uninstalling the driver and rebooting. Now with 1.61NFB I can't play Jplay at all regardless of buffer settings. ASIO 16 samples sounds good however. This is one quirky machine...


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## roni44

I have settled with FW 1.61 and still debating if I can live with it. The current problems I have:

1. MacBook Pro using Kodi to play MKV files movies, about an hour into the movies, a pop/click or lose of sound for a quick second, and it will repeat itself about every 5~8 mins. Remedy by reset U16, however every time reset U16, then I have to manually switch the CKL from INTL to EXT. 

2. Lips sync issues, watching youtube, video and sound is out of sync, no remedy at all unless I upgrade to 1.71 which presents more problem and less sound quality. 

3. Audirvana 3.5/Tidal Hifi, every so often the U16 will reset when changing songs, again pain in the ass have to get my ass up to U16 and change the CLK to EXT. 

Thought about getting Singxer SU-6,  but not sure how SU-6 compares to M2tech Hiface EVO 2 and both are about the same cost.


----------



## Criable

Quick information sharing. 
For those with Denafrips dac - please do get the new dsp board upgrade and ditch your existing dcc (be it u16 or su6). Denafrips released the board for its terminator dac already. 

Compared to a su6/u16 - its sounds so much better- cleaner, with better detail retrieval and extended high via the usb input.


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## bos3812

Thanks guys for all your help and suggestions. I've decided to send the Gustard back. When I listen to my music I want to relax and not fight with a machine who wasn't ready to bring to market. I don't belong to the few lucky ones who have no problems with it. I hope Gustard will bring out a stabel version of the software one day but I also think it will not happen. In my opinion all the problems have their cause in the ESS Sabre chip which is, so far as I know, not brought to market by ESS Sabre. Of course there is a reason for that. These are only my thoughts about it. Maybe the cause lies somewhere else. I don't know. For the time being I keep my SU-1 and wait for a better, stable and payable DCC.


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## wushuliu

The U16 sounds exquisite when it's working well. Truly remarkable sound quality as an spdif converter. If I keep settings as basic as possible it seems to work just fine for music playback. I am tempted to keep it, however I also have a modded Xmos spdif converter with a Crystek clock powered by a LPS that comes pretty close to the U16 and with fewer issues. Tonight I added a lifepo4 battery to power the Crystek and it's now no contest. My modded converter walks all over the U16 and sounds incredible for a fraction of the cost. For those who don't want to go that route and just want an spdif converter for music playback and can live with the quirks, the U16 sounds terrific.


----------



## roni44

wushuliu said:


> The U16 sounds exquisite when it's working well. Truly remarkable sound quality as an spdif converter. If I keep settings as basic as possible it seems to work just fine for music playback. I am tempted to keep it, however I also have a modded Xmos spdif converter with a Crystek clock powered by a LPS that comes pretty close to the U16 and with fewer issues. Tonight I added a lifepo4 battery to power the Crystek and it's now no contest. My modded converter walks all over the U16 and sounds incredible for a fraction of the cost. For those who don't want to go that route and just want an spdif converter for music playback and can live with the quirks, the U16 sounds terrific.



Adding external 10mhz clock to U16 brings to another level, but the quirks remain.......


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## bos3812

wushuliu said:


> The U16 sounds exquisite when it's working well. Truly remarkable sound quality as an spdif converter. If I keep settings as basic as possible it seems to work just fine for music playback. I am tempted to keep it, however I also have a modded Xmos spdif converter with a Crystek clock powered by a LPS that comes pretty close to the U16 and with fewer issues. Tonight I added a lifepo4 battery to power the Crystek and it's now no contest. My modded converter walks all over the U16 and sounds incredible for a fraction of the cost. For those who don't want to go that route and just want an spdif converter for music playback and can live with the quirks, the U16 sounds terrific.



Maybe you wrote it before but about what modded Xmos spdif converter and lifepo4 battery are you talking here?


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## wushuliu (Aug 2, 2019)

bos3812 said:


> Maybe you wrote it before but about what modded Xmos spdif converter and lifepo4 battery are you talking here?



I didn't want to get too off topic. It's one of these converters. $45. What makes them a great value is that you can use an external power supply and the on-board regulators are high quality LT1763, unlike the Singxer F1 etc where you can't avoid the noisy regulators. So you desolder the clocks, add whatever new ones you want. Get a A26650 Lifepo4, a battery case, and a switch. Just wire up the battery to VCC/power pin of the clock(s) and ground, bypass with a .1uf cap and that's it. Crysteks are nice and big and easy to work with. I've used lifepo4s on other dac projects and you always get a level of sound quality that is hard to match. In this case with the converter what you get is sonic purity.


----------



## wwmhf

wushuliu said:


> I didn't want to get too off topic. It's one of these converters. $45. What makes them a great value is that you can use an external power supply and the on-board regulators are high quality LT1763, unlike the Singxer F1 etc where you can't avoid the noisy regulators. So you desolder the clocks, add whatever new ones you want. Get a A26650 Lifepo4, a battery case, and a switch. Just wire up the battery to VCC/power pin of the clock(s) and ground, bypass with a .1uf cap and that's it. Crysteks are nice and big and easy to work with. I've used lifepo4s on other dac projects and you always get a level of sound quality that is hard to match. In this case with the converter what you get is sonic purity.



This seems to be an interesting project! Do you have any suggestion about the connector for the I2S out of this converter?


----------



## wushuliu

wwmhf said:


> This seems to be an interesting project! Do you have any suggestion about the connector for the I2S out of this converter?



I'm not aware of any available pre-made connector for the i2s. I think you have to just add the wires yourself. I'll eventually do that since the DAC I am using currently is a Soekris 1021.


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## mcluxun (Aug 3, 2019)

I'm also a U16 owner, I dont get on forum very often though. I had a short talk with someone close to Gustard about 10M source.
1 C16 is coming, it will be OCXO
2 For 10M source low freq phase noise is very important, off the shelf GPS clock is not going to cut it.
3 If you cannot wait for C16, get some HP 10M OCXOs.


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## MarkR7

Looks like the C16 is selling already.... it’s pricey!

GUSTARD-C16 hifi 10M Clock Audio master clock OCXO with connect cable https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/254314929549


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## FredA (Aug 3, 2019)

MarkR7 said:


> Looks like the C16 is selling already.... it’s pricey!
> 
> GUSTARD-C16 hifi 10M Clock Audio master clock OCXO with connect cable https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/254314929549


Yep,. I found it too here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...hweb0_0,searchweb201602_10,searchweb201603_60


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## roni44

Shortly after I read about C16 here, I talked to the person whom has direct contact with Gustard and he is the one who directed me to buy the 10mhz clock. Base on his feedback, he doesn't think C16 is worth the price and the GPSDO clock I have in possession will do just fine against C16. Again, it's his word and I'm just passing it on, he did recommend to buy Cybershaft http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/ for what C16 is charging. 

BTW, he did say Gustard has discard FW1.71, it will not be an official FW.


----------



## FredA

roni44 said:


> Shortly after I read about C16 here, I talked to the person whom has direct contact with Gustard and he is the one who directed me to buy the 10mhz clock. Base on his feedback, he doesn't think C16 is worth the price and the GPSDO clock I have in possession will do just fine against C16. Again, it's his word and I'm just passing it on, he did recommend to buy Cybershaft http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/ for what C16 is charging.
> 
> BTW, he did say Gustard has discard FW1.71, it will not be an official FW.


I got a regular ocxo (not disciplined) and an ultra-noise psu off ebay for 200usd total. The ocxo has burned for a week, the lps for 5 days. I get a very subtle improvment in the highs which improves decays on cymbals and adds some crispness to the sound, generally speaking. One needs a great setup to hear such a subtle difference. But right now, i use a poorly assembled 50ohm cable (did not have a crimper) so things should improve with an upcoming properly assembled cable.

I am happy with the results given the small investment.


----------



## FredA

One thing i should add is i use the r7he dac with the latast asynch fw, so the potential is limited, whatever the ocxo. A synchronous dac has better chances of benefitting.


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## Monolithic (Aug 3, 2019)

C16 - phase noise is fairly poor which explains the low price.  Seems to be worse than the Technics CG-10M.  Mutec Ref10 is around -116.  Cybershaft makes units with worse phase noise than Mutec and also makes units with better phase noise than Mutec.  Cybershaft is currently sold out.  Technics is $1500, Mutec Ref10 is $4000, Cybershaft is $1800 to $5500 with very limited quantities.

That being said, it remains to be seen whether the C16 does or doesn't make a cost effective audible improvement with the U16 for the given price.


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## FredA (Aug 3, 2019)

Monolithic said:


> C16 - phase noise is fairly poor which explains the low price.  Seems to be worse than the Technics CG-10M.  Mutec Ref10 is around -116.  Cybershaft makes units with worse phase noise than Mutec and also makes units with better phase noise than Mutec.  Cybershaft is currently sold out.  Technics is $1500, Mutec Ref10 is $4000, Cybershaft is $1800 to $5500 with very limited quantities.
> 
> That being said, it remains to be seen whether the C16 does or doesn't make a cost effective audible improvement with the U16 for the given price.


Gustard quotes - 100db at hz. I think it's inaudible at 10hz and above.  The noise level (vertical axis) is what matters the most at this point  Using a bitching psu will have more impact than the ocxo itself, as long it is able to keep the power clean internally.


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## bequietjk

I know this is unrelated but you guys would know best, at least with the experience most of you have in converters.

Has anyone tried the Teralink X2?  At $80 I'm very curious!  Plus, Teradak being the wonderful company to provide us those amazing low cost, great performing LPS' they have (DC30W).


----------



## mcluxun (Aug 3, 2019)

Here's what I got for myself: Stanford Research PRS10 Rubidium clock
<-130 (10Hz), <-140 (100Hz), <-150 (1kHz)


----------



## FredA (Aug 3, 2019)

bequietjk said:


> I know this is unrelated but you guys would know best, at least with the experience most of you have in converters.
> 
> Has anyone tried the Teralink X2?  At $80 I'm very curious!  Plus, Teradak being the wonderful company to provide us those amazing low cost, great performing LPS' they have (DC30W).


It is supposed to be  good according to rb2013. The 30w unit is clearly better still according to rb2013. I can recommend this one without hesitation:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/25W-TALEMA-Ultra-Low-Noise-linear-power-supply-DC-12V-2A-upgrade-your-device/143331836888?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Get a shielded dc cable from ghentaudio (52$), it should help too. I just ordered one.


----------



## wushuliu (Aug 3, 2019)

bequietjk said:


> I know this is unrelated but you guys would know best, at least with the experience most of you have in converters.
> 
> Has anyone tried the Teralink X2?  At $80 I'm very curious!  Plus, Teradak being the wonderful company to provide us those amazing low cost, great performing LPS' they have (DC30W).



The X2 SPDIF Converter is very old. Avoid. I had one I think about 10 years ago. That's like 100 DAC years. I'm surprised they still sell it. I think FredA is just talking about the Teradak power supply with regard to rb2013, NOT the X2. Any of the cheap XMOS spdif converters will be better than an X2, which uses the old Tenor chip.


----------



## FredA (Aug 3, 2019)

wushuliu said:


> The X2 SPDIF Converter is very old. Avoid. I had one I think about 10 years ago. That's like 100 DAC years. I'm surprised they still sell it. I think FredA is just talking about the Teradak power supply with regard to rb2013, NOT the X2. Any of the cheap XMOS spdif converters will be better than an X2, which uses the old Tenor chip.


Yes indeed. There are better xmos converters for around 100$ or less.


----------



## FredA

Sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## bequietjk

Would the U16 be choice for neutrality to feed a DAC in a music production situation.  I'll be editing audio and mixing/mastering audio/music and the truest and neutral sound is what I'm aiming for.  At least for the converter.  I understand the DAC plays a lasting roll in the digital chain but would definitely be nice to have a converter to feed a flat, neutral and accurate signal to the DAC.  Something tells me this U16 or the X-Spdif 2 will be the pick.  Singxers may be too warm?  @wushuliu Perhaps your modded sky song converter?  Hmm....


----------



## motberg

FredA said:


> Gustard quotes - 100db at hz. I think it's inaudible at 10hz and above.  The noise level (vertical axis) is what matters the most at this point  Using a bitching psu will have more impact than the ocxo itself, as long it is able to keep the power clean internally.


This is exactly what a friend of mine who built his DAC (from Audio-GD r2r boards) and has been experimenting with these economy clocks for a few years... in his estimation, if I understand correctly, the clock PSU has at least as much effect as the clock itself, given the parts are all appropriate...


----------



## motberg

bequietjk said:


> Would the U16 be choice for neutrality to feed a DAC in a music production situation.  I'll be editing audio and mixing/mastering audio/music and the truest and neutral sound is what I'm aiming for.  At least for the converter.  I understand the DAC plays a lasting roll in the digital chain but would definitely be nice to have a converter to feed a flat, neutral and accurate signal to the DAC.  Something tells me this U16 or the X-Spdif 2 will be the pick.  Singxers may be too warm?  @wushuliu Perhaps your modded sky song converter?  Hmm....



I had a project studio some years ago... 
I have had quite a few of these DDC's and for USB I would pick the SU-1 with upgraded PS (or probably better the SU-6).
Besides seeming a bit warm to me, the U16 can be unstable handling different file types, which is the last thing you want in a studio environment.

An Ethernet interface may be a good investment to consider:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...ets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio.806827/

IMHO - mixing/mastering is a lot about not screwing-up what is already on the tape though... so talent and work process may be more important than the equipment.


----------



## FredA

motberg said:


> This is exactly what a friend of mine who built his DAC (from Audio-GD r2r boards) and has been experimenting with these economy clocks for a few years... in his estimation, if I understand correctly, the clock PSU has at least as much effect as the clock itself, given the parts are all appropriate...


It sure has a big impact. I think because of the reclocking done by my dac, a cheap tcxo combined to a very good and cheap psu will bring the best improvment i can get. Those owning synchronous dacs will benefit more when using yet  better material..


----------



## bequietjk

@motberg Thank you for the advice.  And that you have studio experience is great!  It definitely helps to hear someone who has been in the studio environment.

For AOIP, Rob stated that the Ultra USB chain far surpassed AOIP.  I have yet to try my chain with the Startech/ICRONS but with just the F-1 and IR I feel the sound is so great as it is.  Even just swapping out my JDS Labs OL DAC will make a remarkable difference.  So while I do appreciate your recommendation I need to see this path out before the AOIP route.

On the user end, the production and artist, MOST DEFINITELY agree.  While the tech may be what enables us to create the product it will come down to the users.  AOIP may actually be more reliable!  I can see that.  The learning process involves trial and error and is exciting for sure.


----------



## Asimov-kln

After upgrading the firmware which i found here: https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/. 
The Firmware now showing : GSD U16 V1.61 96k Jan  3 201915:08:46
After installing the firmware I am having some clicks. 

I am looking for 1.61 NFB, anybody please tell me here to get this version.

Thanks.


----------



## Asimov-kln

Asimov-kln said:


> After upgrading the firmware which i found here: https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/.
> The Firmware now showing : GSD U16 V1.61 96k Jan  3 201915:08:46
> After installing the firmware I am having some clicks.
> 
> ...


 
Oh! Got it.


----------



## Jellejanssen

Which clocks did you find best for you?

May i ask why you wire the lifepo4 and cap, as buffer? They would work without, right ?!



wushuliu said:


> I didn't want to get too off topic. It's one of these converters. $45. What makes them a great value is that you can use an external power supply and the on-board regulators are high quality LT1763, unlike the Singxer F1 etc where you can't avoid the noisy regulators. So you desolder the clocks, add whatever new ones you want. Get a A26650 Lifepo4, a battery case, and a switch. Just wire up the battery to VCC/power pin of the clock(s) and ground, bypass with a .1uf cap and that's it. Crysteks are nice and big and easy to work with. I've used lifepo4s on other dac projects and you always get a level of sound quality that is hard to match. In this case with the converter what you get is sonic purity.


----------



## wushuliu

Jellejanssen said:


> Which clocks did you find best for you?
> 
> May i ask why you wire the lifepo4 and cap, as buffer? They would work without, right ?!



No, it is not a buffer. It powers the 22.5792Mhz clock. I disconnected the 3.3v from the board. I have only tried the NDK SDA clock and Crystek 957. Both are excellent, the NDK seems to have slightly lower noise but is more finicky as far as decoupling. The Crystek is warmer and smooth and much easier to connect.


----------



## Jellejanssen

Does it improve the sound quality that much for it to make that upgrade?

The clock i understand

I have a uptone iso audio currently. Curious to see whether that gives another improvement on the noise levels...

Thanks @whusuliu


----------



## wushuliu

Jellejanssen said:


> Does it improve the sound quality that much for it to make that upgrade?
> 
> The clock i understand
> 
> ...



Yes, using a Lifepo4 whenever will always have a substantial improvement in sound quality. I don't want to derail the thread so if you have other ?s please send a PM. Thanks.


----------



## PitBul34




----------



## wushuliu

Shouldn't Gustard be focusing on improving the U16 software instead of selling a $700 clock to use with it?


----------



## Ludique (Aug 10, 2019)

The U16 resetting/restarting by itself is a peculiar thing. Which of you have this problem?

It always happens after a song has been played and the track changes. Never in the middle of a song. You might not notice it, unless you look at the display which shows the dsd 5.6448, which it always does after rebooting.

The ISO Regen makes the problem worse, but it is not caused by it. The shielding in the usb cable has an effect though, I have Lush2 and the different configurations lessen or worsen the problem. Sometimes I could play for days without resetting.

It surely is a grounding issue. I have only used linux based streamers, Auralic and Lumin. The problem is with both, less with the latter.


----------



## FredA

Ludique said:


> The U16 resetting/restarting by itself is a peculiar thing. Which of you have this problem?
> 
> It always happens after a song has been played and the track changes. Never in the middle of a song. You might not notice it, unless you look at the display which shows the dsd 5.6448, which it always does after rebooting.
> 
> ...



It may be the issue i have something feeding it with a usbridge. No issue with just a rpi. Very annoying as i have to reboot the usbridge when this occurs.


----------



## batfier

Many reports here say "FW v1.61 NFB" is more stable. Therefore, I spend some time to repeat the test procedure I did for the other FW versions in the past:

(HDMI/IIS)-> AudioGD R7 (IIS input):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...ing-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-32#post-14738080

(BNC out)-> Hugo 2 (coax in):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...ing-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-32#post-14738086

(XLR/coax/toslink output)-> RME ADI-2 pro (XLR/coax/toslink input):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...ing-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-32#post-14738094


*Summary for FW Version 1.61 NFB *(GU16V1_61_NFB.rom)  (https://onedrive.live.com/?id=636DC4E8060D66A1!380&cid=636DC4E8060D66A1)

"v1.61 NFB" indeed works nearly as expected. Only one (and a half) issue are left to my notes:

Using (HDMI/IIS)-> AudioGD R7 (IIS input) at PCM/176/24 music is sometimes distorted. Not distorted like in the past, when I needed to tear the cans from the head quickly, but clearly the music is badly effected. The problem can be solved by switching inputs on the AudioGD R7. It looks like a kind of sync problem. Anyhow there are no issues at all with Singxer SU-1.
No RME Bit-Tests for 192kHz came through. The RME can not even establish a sync to the U16 for the test files. Strange! The other 96 kHz and 44kHz RME Bit Tests where past without a problem with all bit depths. Again on Singer SU-1 also the RME Bit-Tests for 192kHz passes. However, this is a more theoretical test,I did not discover issues with 192kHz music files so far.
Please find detailed test results below. 
Please note, when you see "not playing (OK)", this means is not an U16 issue. There are other limitations like interface speed/specification or DAC specification. 
Please also note, that I had updated Aries Femto and RME ADI-2 Firmwares, since the last tests. Not sure, if this had an effect, but you never know for sure...









So all in all it look quite good. Will continue with U16. Hope it will be stable.


----------



## FredA

batfier said:


> Many reports here say "FW v1.61 NFB" is more stable. Therefore, I spend some time to repeat the test procedure I did for the other FW versions in the past:
> 
> (HDMI/IIS)-> AudioGD R7 (IIS input):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...ing-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-32#post-14738080
> ...


I confirmed the issue with r7 and 176k files.


----------



## PeterCraig

batfier said:


> Many reports here say "FW v1.61 NFB" is more stable. Therefore, I spend some time to repeat the test procedure I did for the other FW versions in the past:
> 
> (HDMI/IIS)-> AudioGD R7 (IIS input):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...ing-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-32#post-14738080
> ...



This is what a professional QA person gets paid to do. Your hired!


----------



## teatime888

batfier said:


> Many reports here say "FW v1.61 NFB" is more stable. Therefore, I spend some time to repeat the test procedure I did for the other FW versions in the past:
> 
> (HDMI/IIS)-> AudioGD R7 (IIS input):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...ing-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-32#post-14738080
> ...


nice job!!


----------



## bequietjk

So upon viewing your detailed test @batfier it sounds like some good hope for the U16.  Interests are peaked!

I still wish these new bridges would accept USB 3.0.  The only one I've seen get that job done is the XSpdif-2.


----------



## motberg

motberg said:


> my ebay seller had the 10M antenna available so hopefully no problem....
> I will be traveling for a few weeks, so will report back the results when I return.
> thanks again for the heads-up on this device



Hi Folks,

I got this installed OK, very easy to setup with a 10 meter cable (was 8 USD from my eBay vendor), just dropped the antenna box out a window - it is hanging free on a bar from the window security screen with a fairly open sight to clear sky. No problem with the GPS lock. I made some preliminary observations at the link below.. using now for a couple days with great results.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...tor-ladder-dacs.853902/page-322#post-15117230

(Even my _Teresa Teng Greatest Hits_ files sounded surprisingly well recorded & refined, we must have low phase noise satellites on this side of the globe  )


----------



## DACLadder (Aug 12, 2019)

Edited: The Ebay disciplined clock units have OCXOs. But the descriptions are vague and performance is sketchy until proven.  I'm taking @FredA 's approach and putting my money in an OCXO only design.  If I can't see a datasheet for the clock then I'm not buying.


----------



## FredA (Aug 12, 2019)

DACLadder said:


> 10 MHz Satellite Disciplined Clock buyers beware of the units that look like this and sell for around $125-$135 US. This design uses a Blox NEO-6 satellite receiver chip with integrated TCXO.  Designed mainly for long term stability and not necessarily low jitter.
> 
> 
> The units with the nice LCD panels that sell above $160 US at least have OCXOs.  But the descriptions are vague and performance is sketchy until proven.  I'm taking @FredA 's approach and putting my money in an OCXO only design.  If I can't see a datasheet for the clock then I'm not buying.


I am still not convinced with mine. If the d.. 50ohm cable can come in...


----------



## DACLadder

motberg said:


> Hi Folks, I got this installed OK'''
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...tor-ladder-dacs.853902/page-322#post-15117230


Nice!  How long did it take to "discipline" the clock (10.000000 MHz) after locking to the satellite?  Just curious as how long the OCXO takes to stabilize compared to the satellite.


----------



## JaMo

@DACLadder :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10Mhz-GPSD...973&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Disciplined with the Oscilloquartz double oven OCXO

/Jan


----------



## DACLadder

JaMo said:


> @DACLadder :
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/10Mhz-GPSDO-OSCILLOQUARTZ-OSA-OEM-GPS-GPSDO-10MHz-1PPS-STAR-GPS-Clock/262861459973?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=57476&meid=1855a88b77a5450ea0d8f88111f67d67&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=12&mehot=pp&sd=263458624856&itm=262861459973&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
> 
> Disciplined with the Oscilloquartz double oven OCXO
> ...


Thank you!  Finally something with specs...

The $130 Ebay discipline clocks units I trashed above have the OCXOs mounted from the bottom side of the board.  I was only scanning the top side of the board.  Thanks for the correction....


----------



## JaMo (Aug 12, 2019)

I bought this one. Oscilloquartz with dual sinewave out. No GPS. Just to see how good it can perform with a high prescision LPS.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-MHz-Double-Oven-OCXO-Double-sinewave-OSCILLOQUARTZ-8663-XS-10MHZ/253288060152?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item3af92514f8:g:zb4AAOSwGzhaIOt4&enc=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&checksum=253288060152bff0385493bd4ccebfbc098fa6985c90

/J


----------



## DACLadder

JaMo said:


> I bought this one. Oscilloquartz with dual sinewave out. No GPS. Just to see how good it can perform with a high prescision LPS.



Bought it! Looks great and price is right!


----------



## JaMo

DACLadder said:


> Bought it! Looks great and price is right!



Good! The best there is for small money.
/Jan


----------



## DACLadder

JaMo said:


> Good! The best there is for small money.
> /Jan



Thanks again Jan!  What is the input voltage?  There is something cryptic mentioned "*DC13-15Venter".*   Is that 13-15V center positive?


----------



## JaMo (Aug 12, 2019)

DACLadder said:


> There is something cryptic mentioned "*DC13-15Venter".* Is that 13-15V center positive?



If You look at the circuit board in one of the pictures, You can read (mirrored) +12 to +15 V. I haven't got mine yet but I expect center positive. Will ask the seller if not obvious when having it at hand.
/Jan


----------



## roni44

DACLadder said:


> Nice!  How long did it take to "discipline" the clock (10.000000 MHz) after locking to the satellite?  Just curious as how long the OCXO takes to stabilize compared to the satellite.



Mine took less than a min before it reach 10.0000000mhz, and it will bounce between 9.99999999 to 10.0000000 constantly.


----------



## motberg

DACLadder said:


> Nice!  How long did it take to "discipline" the clock (10.000000 MHz) after locking to the satellite?  Just curious as how long the OCXO takes to stabilize compared to the satellite.



I did not time it - but seemed about 10 - 15 minutes to fully lock into the GPS system (pretty cool watching that on the display actually.. what times we are living in!). The manual seems to suggest a minimum 30 minutes warm up, then another plateau at around 5 hours and then even further accuracy possible with  extended time. I just leave it on 24/7 so far.. Besides the front display there are rear LED indicators to show lock and OCXO temp status.  

I just took delivery of a Lightspeed Attenuator and waiting on some DC cables and an interconnect that should arrive this week. So I will soon have a LT3045 LPS powered Lightspeed vol. control between my NOS7 DAC and Master 3 amp with all silver litz interconnects. After I get that broken in a little and familiar with the sound, I will revisit the 10M clock contribution. 

(I am now using a generic passive pre and tube buffer, which sounds great but I assume is colored by the RCA NOS 12AU7 clear-top in the path, so for proper clock evaluation I will take the buffer out of the chain.. but my guess is the tube will return the minute I revert to 70's prog-rock_ _)


----------



## DACLadder

@motberg @roni44. That’s quick. I was thinking it would take hours to get the last few decimal places.  Thanks!

I had to deep dive my mothballed audio equipment for a S/PDIF cable today and found my old Off Ramp 5 DDC +12V power supply - “Dynamo”.  It’s beefy (3A) and low noise.  Also found some 50 ohm coax cables.  Hopefully, nothing else to buy for 10MHz clock testing!


----------



## roni44

DACLadder said:


> @motberg @roni44. That’s quick. I was thinking it would take hours to get the last few decimal places.  Thanks!
> 
> I had to deep dive my mothballed audio equipment for a S/PDIF cable today and found my old Off Ramp 5 DDC +12V power supply - “Dynamo”.  It’s beefy (3A) and low noise.  Also found some 50 ohm coax cables.  Hopefully, nothing else to buy for 10MHz clock testing!



I should've mention this, initial boot took less than 10 min to reach 10mhz (I think it was just a bit over 5min), I do turn off clock from time to time and each cycle after initial boot reaches to 10mhz less than a min for me. I am looking into LPS for the clock or ifi ipower, any suggestion will be highly appreciated.


----------



## JaMo (Aug 13, 2019)

Hi,
A bit OT but anyway related..

One thing I have learned about these OCXO's is that they are very sensitive to the voltage level when feeding them power. A dip or a rise in the power feed is instantly impacting the oven (heating) and secundary the frequency. So for a non-GPS disciplined OCXO a very stable, adjustable LPS is key to get it to work with stability. For the GPS Disciplined this is less important as the discipline algorithms compensates. But a good and precise LPS should be what we all use with our OCXO's. As many of You surely has noticed many of the OCXO's has "DC11.7-12.9V Max 15W" printed. This is mainly because, inside this span a very precise 10.000 000,000(0) Hz will more or less be fixed based on the voltage level. A Youtube clip showed a +12.2V to get the precise target and 12.0V gave a very clear drop in frequency. Start at 12 volts, let heat for a few hours, hook up a scope and fine adjust for a precise 10MHz signal should be the procedure for us/the people without the LCD displays.

By the way...These ovens consumes about 8 watts when heating up and about 2,5 watts running at normal working condition. Good to know I think.


My 2 cents...
/Jan


----------



## motberg

JaMo said:


> Hi,
> A bit OT but anyway related..
> 
> One thing I have learned about these OCXO's is that they are very sensitive to the voltage level when feeding them power. A dip or a rise in the power feed is instantly impacting the oven (heating) and secundary the frequency. So for a non-GPS disciplined OCXO a very stable, adjustable LPS is key to get it to work with stability. For the GPS Disciplined this is less important as the discipline algorithms compensates. But a good and precise LPS should be what we all use with our OCXO's. As many of You surely has noticed many of the OCXO's has "DC11.7-12.9V Max 15W" printed. This is mainly because, inside this span a very precise 10.000 000,000(0) Hz will more or less be fixed based on the voltage level. A Youtube clip showed a +12.2V to get the precise target and 12.0V gave a very clear drop in frequency. Start at 12 volts, let heat for a few hours, hook up a scope and fine adjust for a precise 10MHz signal should be the procedure for us/the people without the LCD displays.
> ...



Wow - interesting info there... this morning I just ordered a DR LT3045 box at 12v, currently using a pretty nice Teradak set at 12.05v iirc... but I have the GPS clock box..
(I noticed that the input voltage range was strangely specific and toleranced out to xx.x V, but did not know why)

I will give the regulator box it a try when it arrives and advise if any problems..
https://www.ldovr.com/product-p/dxp-1a5dsc.htm

Many thanks for the heads-up... great info


----------



## DACLadder (Aug 13, 2019)

JaMo said:


> Hi,
> A bit OT but anyway related..
> 
> One thing I have learned about these OCXO's is that they are very sensitive to the voltage level when feeding them power. A dip or a rise in the power feed is instantly impacting the oven (heating) and secundary the frequency. So for a non-GPS disciplined OCXO a very stable, adjustable LPS is key to get it to work with stability. For the GPS Disciplined this is less important as the discipline algorithms compensates. But a good and precise LPS should be what we all use with our OCXO's. As many of You surely has noticed many of the OCXO's has "DC11.7-12.9V Max 15W" printed. This is mainly because, inside this span a very precise 10.000 000,000(0) Hz will more or less be fixed based on the voltage level. A Youtube clip showed a +12.2V to get the precise target and 12.0V gave a very clear drop in frequency. Start at 12 volts, let heat for a few hours, hook up a scope and fine adjust for a precise 10MHz signal should be the procedure for us/the people without the LCD displays.
> ...



Thanks Jan.  @FredA mentioned his +12V oscillator would not work with the supplied 1A power supply at startup when the oven was pulling maximum power. The power supply would shut down.  I looked at specs for the oscillator on our board and the datasheet states +12V +/- 5%. But the Ebay sale suggests 13 - 15V.   We shall see....


----------



## DACLadder

@JaMo I was able to adjust the old Off Ramp 5 power supply output to +12.12V so will give that a try first.  I have an oscilloscope and will take a look at the output before connecting to the U16   Thanks!


----------



## JaMo (Aug 13, 2019)

DACLadder said:


> ...the datasheet states +12V +/- 5%. But the Ebay sale suggests 13 - 15V. We shall see



I don't know how efficient the circuit is but I trust the print on the circuit board (+12-+15V) more than the seller. But some circuits uses bleeding resistors in some cases to discharge the circuits fast. Rare but existing and it demands a bit higher voltage. But I still think a powerful enough LPS 12V ~2A will do the job just fine.



DACLadder said:


> I was able to adjust the old Off Ramp 5 power supply output to +12.12V so will give that a try first. I have an oscilloscope and will take a look at the output before connecting to the U16 Thanks!



That sounds good. But wasn't that power supply a 12V 1A..? If so It can be a little weak but it should do the job but take longer before heated up the ovens to working temperature. The inrush current could be a problem though... I intend to use a 12V 2A LPS for this job (@FredA suggestion)

/Jan


----------



## DACLadder

@JaMo The Empirical Audio Dynamo power supply is rated 3 amps by indication on the output plug.  It sells for $799 now.  There is not $800 worth of parts inside that box!

I think Fred had a weak 1A power supply and the circuit probably draws close to that warming up.  2A should be fine.


----------



## JaMo

@DACLadder : 


JaMo said:


> I haven't got mine yet but I expect center positive. Will ask the seller if not obvious when having it at hand.



Seller has confirmed "center positive"
/Jan


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## FredA

Hi guys. 

I finally tried the sine output on my ocxo. It sounds better then the square out. A sine output is less demanding to the cable would be my theory. Also the square out is derived from the sine so maybe timing error or noise are introduced. 

Compared to the square out, the highs are smoother, the bass seems tighter and resolution is better. Just my very first impressions, not sure of anything but the the highs really seem better. I ordered a second 50ohm cable which hopefully will come in before the first one does. 

I should have tried this way sooner!


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## JaMo (Aug 14, 2019)

Hi Fred!
Good to hear about Your progresses in Your setup. Near endgame it seems.. (But I don't believe that for a minute..Ha ha) You are a searcher and discoverer by nature so You will never get full peace... for long at least. Nothing wrong with that. I agree about the square wave and demands of quality on cables.
Question: Do You have any idea of what OCXO You have inside the box? Just curious. But the fact is that a bunch of OCXO's (Double oven clones of the Oscilloquatz 8663 XS) branded UCT-108663 are sold on ebay for USD28+postage from a seller i California. These are NOS and are said to be excellent.
By the way.. My U16's are working fine with v1.4PSA and the 1.61NFB fw's. No flaws, just beuautiful music. Today I have two weeks with power on the GPSDO and with a small reluctance, I have to admit it has already passed the inside Accusilicons in performance. But the "baking" is ongoing and changes still comes and goes.. I expect two more weeks to really know.

/Jan


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## FredA (Aug 14, 2019)

JaMo said:


> Hi Fred!
> Good to hear about Your progresses in Your setup. Near endgame it seems.. (But I don't believe that for a minute..Ha ha) You are a searcher and discoverer by nature so You will never get full peace... for long at least. Nothing wrong with that. I agree about the square wave and demands of quality on cables.
> Question: Do You have any idea of what OCXO You have inside the box? Just curious. But the fact is that a bunch of OCXO's (Double oven clones of the Oscilloquatz 8663 XS) branded UCT-108663 are sold on ebay for USD28+postage from a seller i California. These are NOS and are said to be excellent.
> By the way.. My U16's are working fine with v1.4PSA and the 1.61NFB fw's. No flaws, just beuautiful music. Today I have two weeks with power on the GPSDO and with a small reluctance, I have admit it has already passed the inside Accusilicons in performance. But the "baking" is ongoing and changes still comes and goes.. I expect two more weeks to really know.
> ...


You are right. Peace is not for me. Always looking for an upgrade. I am getting the he9 today, or tomorrow.

From all i can tell, i haven't opened the unit, i have a Dapu 055f-ASDD. See this link:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...hweb0_0,searchweb201602_10,searchweb201603_53

With a pi, i have no issue with the u16. With the usbridge, that's another story.


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## FredA

Some more listening time with the sine output. And some a/b with the internal XOs. I am on verge of calling it clearly better using the ocxo. More liquid, sharper trancients and perhaps tighter bass as well. The internal seem fuzzy in comparison. I really like what i am hearing right now.


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## DACLadder

Thanks Fred... Sine wave makes sense for locking a PLL.  Perfect sine waves have no harmonic content.  On the other hand, perfect square waves have infinite number of odd harmonics. 

Nothing is perfect but a typical square wave clock signal has strong 3rd, 5th, 7th harmonics.  No perfect sine wave either but even 1% distortion is not much.

Ebay tracking says my OCXO should arrive Saturday!


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## FredA

@DACLadder @JaMo

I am calling it: i never heard such convincing imaging in my room as i am hearing now. The track is There is no greater love, Sonny Rollins, Way out west. All sorts of recording room effects can be heard distinctly. Wow!


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## motberg

FredA said:


> @DACLadder @JaMo
> 
> I am calling it: i never heard such convincing imaging in my room as i am hearing now. The track is There is no greater love, Sonny Rollins, Way out west. All sorts of recording room effects can be heard distinctly. Wow!



Very interesting perspective concerning sine wave output.
The GPS Disciplined unit I use also has this (from an online manual):
_10 MHz OUTPUT: Sine Wave 1 Vrms, 1 0-15 dBm._

And your observations somewhat mirror mine - many elements previously buried.. now somehow exposed..


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## FredA

motberg said:


> Very interesting perspective concerning sine wave output.
> The GPS Disciplined unit I use also has this (from an online manual):
> _10 MHz OUTPUT: Sine Wave 1 Vrms, 1 0-15 dBm._
> 
> And your observations somewhat mirror mine - many elements previously buried.. now somehow exposed..


One point though, my cable is so badly assembled, one center pin barely holding in place, that the difference could be due to getting a better contact when inserting it into the sine out.

I got a new cable today, i will have to redo the  comparison. It is not perfectly put together either, one pin being off center. I expect another cable within 10 days, so...


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## FredA

DACLadder said:


> Thanks Fred... Sine wave makes sense for locking a PLL.  Perfect sine waves have no harmonic content.  On the other hand, perfect square waves have infinite number of odd harmonics.
> 
> Nothing is perfect but a typical square wave clock signal has strong 3rd, 5th, 7th harmonics.  No perfect sine wave either but even 1% distortion is not much.
> 
> Ebay tracking says my OCXO should arrive Saturday!


Looking forward to hearing your feedback. It is likely that you will not listen through your su6 much after hearing the u16 with the oxco. It is freaking good. I am flabbergasted.


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## roni44

I think it's safe to say a well designed OCXO or GPSDO will elevate sound to another level, now I wonder which one is better. A gentle reminder if U16 resets itself, then CLK goes to default to INT, I get all paranoid and make sure it's on EXT each time I use the system.


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## FredA (Aug 15, 2019)

roni44 said:


> I think it's safe to say a well designed OCXO or GPSDO will elevate sound to another level, now I wonder which one is better. A gentle reminder if U16 resets itself, then CLK goes to default to INT, I get all paranoid and make sure it's on EXT each time I use the system.


My understanding is that for audio, the gps synching is not required. Only the quality of the ocxo, and of the psu you use matter. I could be wrong.

I will receive a dc cable next week. This will help with power quality.


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## roni44

FredA said:


> My understand is that for audio, the gps synching is not required. Only fhe quality of the ocxo, and of the psu you use matter. I could be wrong.
> 
> I will receive a dc cable next week. This will help with power quality.



I was just told to get this clock and that cable for U16 and grateful for the outcome and money not wasted. Currently both unit plugged into a cheap power strip, I am looking for a good PSU and LPS for both, any recommendation will be highly appreciated. 

I was really worry you guys will not hear any difference and I will be forever in Head-fi solitary confinement, glad your experience is positive and cheers.


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## DACLadder

FredA said:


> Looking forward to hearing your feedback. It is likely that you will not listen through your su6 much after hearing the u16 with the oxco. It is freaking good. I am flabbergasted.



LOL. The OCXO shipping notice says delivery Friday...... September 13, 2019.  It may be a while before I can try. 

Well, I have a lot of questions... Does a higher spec OCXO make it sound even better?  Technically, why does it sound better than free running TCXOs?  Are there better PLL chips than what is used by Gustard to synthesize clocks (future project)?  Any way to predict performance?

If it is so seemingly easy to connect 10MHz sine wave to a digital PLL chip and get better performing clocks than what TCXOs can provide, why are we not see this in products like high-end consumer DACs?  Let the customer provide 10MHz clocks to their digital products based on expected performance and what they can afford.


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## FredA (Aug 14, 2019)

DACLadder said:


> LOL. The OCXO shipping notice says delivery Friday...... September 13, 2019.  It may be a while before I can try.
> 
> Well, I have a lot of questions... Does a higher spec OCXO make it sound even better?  Technically, why does it sound better than free running TCXOs?  Are there better PLL chips than what is used by Gustard to synthesize clocks (future project)?  Any way to predict performance?
> 
> If it is so seemingly easy to connect 10MHz sine wave to a digital PLL chip and get better performing clocks than what TCXOs can provide, why are we not see this in products like high-end consumer DACs?  Let the customer provide 10MHz clocks to their digital products based on expected performance and what they can afford.


My take on this is that the u16 has taken the cheap route on clock psus. Or that having higher freq. on the singularity board makes the audio-gd internal clocks superior. Probably both reasons. The point is sound will improve only up to the point you reach the quality (meaning as having low jitter) of the dac's clocks. This is for an asynch dac. For a synch dac, the benefit can be even be greater.


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## FredA (Aug 14, 2019)

roni44 said:


> I was just told to get this clock and that cable for U16 and grateful for the outcome and money not wasted. Currently both unit plugged into a cheap power strip, I am looking for a good PSU and LPS for both, any recommendation will be highly appreciated.
> 
> I was really worry you guys will not hear any difference and I will be forever in Head-fi solitary confinement, glad your experience is positive and cheers.



I got this lps. i dont know how much diff it makes in itself, only it does not contaminate the power line like a switching supply does. The form factor is perfect as it can sit on top of the u16 right next to the ocxo, they are both the same size. Another plus is it does not run hot. It is a quality unit IMO.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/25W-TALEMA-Ultra-Low-Noise-linear-power-supply-DC-12V-2A-upgrade-your-device/143331836888?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

I also got a silver-plated copper dc cable from Ghentaudio. It is shielded to avoid rfi contamination. And also has a star quad config for the same purpose.


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## Toni-Mang (Aug 15, 2019)

In this case i am more than sceptical regarding the OCXO vs. the acusilicon clocks in the U16. But as always, you guys are teasing me...ordered a linear psu and the double OCXO as mention above. I really don't get the "studio/broadcasting sync theme vs. TCXO´s" yet...but lets have a try….


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## FredA (Aug 15, 2019)

Toni-Mang said:


> In this case i am more than sceptical regarding the OCXO vs. the acusilicon clocks in the U16. But as always, you guys are teasing me...ordered a linear psu and the double tcxo as mention above. I really don't get the "studio/broadcasting sync theme vs. TCXO´s" yet...but lets have a try….


It is not very risky. i would call it one of the best upgrade per spent dollar i ever did. My dac having a regenerative psu (r7he) , it is plausible that i get a greater upgrade than the same dac without (r7).


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## DACLadder (Aug 15, 2019)

Toni-Mang said:


> In this case i am more than sceptical regarding the OCXO vs. the acusilicon clocks in the U16. But as always, you guys are teasing me...ordered a linear psu and the double OCXO as mention above. I really don't get the "studio/broadcasting sync theme vs. TCXO´s" yet...but lets have a try….



I have the same skepticism but worth a try. @FredA and @JaMo I have known for years and trust their assessments.  And my investment is very minimal at this point.  Spent more for USB cables!


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## wushuliu

May also want to try one of the Studer900 linear supplies. They have gotten stellar approval from various corners of this hobby, including DAC designer John Westlake. Some rudimentary measurements at diyaudio puts noise at only a few uV, which I think is substantially lower than the previously mentioned (Jay's Audio?) Talema and a member even ranked it with both Salas and Uptone Audio supplies - high praise. The Studer is way underpriced for such performance.


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## Toni-Mang

i was sceptical, and you where right as you suggested -> Wait - the u16 needs to burn in/ the V2A boards are clearly better/ the acusilicon clocks are a must have...
So to try the OCXO with the linear power source is a clear way for me, but i will also wait for the C16 feedback here…
Thank you very much @FredA, @JaMo and @DACLadder for sharing this!


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## roni44

FredA said:


> I got this lps. i dont know how much diff it makes in itself, only it does not contaminate the power line like a switching supply does. The form factor is perfect as it can sit on top of the u16 right next to the ocxo, they are both the same size. Another plus is it does not run hot. It is a quality unit IMO.
> 
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/25W-TALEMA-Ultra-Low-Noise-linear-power-supply-DC-12V-2A-upgrade-your-device/143331836888?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> 
> I also got a silver-plated copper dc cable from Ghentaudio. It is shielded to avoid rfi contamination. And also has a star quad config for the same purpose.



Thanks for the recommendation, I will look into it ASAP, however do you thinking it's ok to stack LPS on top or underneath of U16? I had major interference when I had Apple Airport Express on top of U16


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## FredA

roni44 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation, I will look into it ASAP, however do you thinking it's ok to stack LPS on top or underneath of U16? I had major interference when I had Apple Airport Express on top of U16


The airport airport express emits wifi, not the ocxo. I believe gustard has made its clock the same size as the u16 to be able to stack them.


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## roni44

FredA said:


> The airport airport express emits wifi, not the ocxo. I believe gustard has made its clock the same size as the u16 to be able to stack them.



Thanks again @FredA, looks like initial review of C16(Gustard Clock) is favorable, but consider the price is between 500~550USD, not sure how much of improvement to what I already have, I'm on the fence of ordering one.


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## FredA

roni44 said:


> Thanks again @FredA, looks like initial review of C16(Gustard Clock) is favorable, but consider the price is between 500~550USD, not sure how much of improvement to what I already have, I'm on the fence of ordering one.


I would never put such money. They is not much margin of improvment over what i get with my 200$ investment IMO. Don't know why Gustard ask so much for its unit.


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## PLGA

Hello guys
You have tempted me again with this clock artifact for the U16!!
But I've got a little lost. Wich external clock would you recomend exactly?
If the results are similar, I would much prefer the one with out the GPS. 
Its clear that a great LPS for the price is the Studer 900, if I decide to buy any clock.
On the other hand, could you please describe again the improvements in sound with the external clock? 
Thank you!!


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## roni44

FredA said:


> I would never put such money. They is not much margin of improvment over what i get with my 200$ investment IMO. Don't know why Gustard ask so much for its unit.



I totally agree, with what we have now, it's hard to imagine C16 will be much better or if any improvement at all. My go to guy whom has some communication with Gustard thinks as Chinese brand is starting to figure out the benefit of clock, they are charging as much as they can before the others jumping into the bandwagon.


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## FredA

PLGA said:


> Hello guys
> You have tempted me again with this clock artifact for the U16!!
> But I've got a little lost. Wich external clock would you recomend exactly?
> If the results are similar, I would much prefer the one with out the GPS.
> ...


The quality of the ocxo is what matters the most, i don't think ths gps synching helps at all. And note that whatever the ocxo, they are all better than the Accusilicons on paper by a big margin. 

You get better imaging, better rendered ambience details,  echos, resonnances. Thighter bass, the sound gets more liquid.  It reduces sound quality variability. Since i have the ocxo properly setup, i pretty much have the best sound possible all the time.


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## PLGA

FredA said:


> The quality of the ocxo is what matters the most, i don't think ths gps synching helps at all. And note that whatever the ocxo, they are all better than the Accusilicons on paper by a big margin.
> 
> You get better imaging, better rendered ambience details,  echos, resonnances. Thighter bass, the sound gets more liquid.  It reduces sound quality variability. Since i have the ocxo properly setup, i pretty much have the best sound possible all the time.



Thank you Fred!
Can you please post again the web link of the clock you have bought?


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## FredA

PLGA said:


> Thank you Fred!
> Can you please post again the web link of the clock you have bought?


Note that the ebay seller sent me a 12V1A psu, which is insufficient , i had a 2A available so i did not mind much..

This is the unit: 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/10MHz-OCXO-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Got this psu:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/25W-TALEMA-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


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## motberg

roni44 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation, I will look into it ASAP, however do you thinking it's ok to stack LPS on top or underneath of U16? I had major interference when I had Apple Airport Express on top of U16



That is a very interesting experience about the Airport Express... good to know.

I checked a few of my LPS's with a _Trifield_ 100XE meter, and the LPS's I have (China made popular models) emit substantial magnetic interference from the body and some electrical interference from the power inlet area. I have no idea if this would affect the U16 ( I doubt it, the U16 and SU-1 have a similar magnetic signature themselves). 
...but I usually distance my LPS's from source circuits (sometimes use a separate final regulator closer to the circuit) and audio cables, and/or use MuMetal sheets  
Last I checked, 2 pcs of 1mm thick MuMetal sheets = approx. 18 CM of distance for magnetic, 1 sheet does a pretty good job eliminating the small electric interference.
But I doubt any of that is necessary, I often see manufacturers sales images showing power supplies stacked with components. 
For temperature considerations, I am using a free-standing approx. 2.5A LPS for the GPS clock box, and the LPS is not generating excess heat - the top is pretty much at room temperature (sometimes 32C + this time of year). I have had similar LPS's get very hot under heavy current draw (ie. charging Uptone LPS 1), so it seems that the GPS clock is not pressuring the LPS much, but if you are stacking maybe an idea to consider a LPS with some extra amperage headroom and/or good heat sinks to keep temps under control.. and keep a little extra space between the components.


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## roni44 (Aug 16, 2019)

motberg said:


> That is a very interesting experience about the Airport Express... good to know.
> 
> I checked a few of my LPS's with a _Trifield_ 100XE meter, and the LPS's I have (China made popular models) emit substantial magnetic interference from the body and some electrical interference from the power inlet area. I have no idea if this would affect the U16 ( I doubt it, the U16 and SU-1 have a similar magnetic signature themselves).
> ...but I usually distance my LPS's from source circuits (sometimes use a separate final regulator closer to the circuit) and audio cables, and/or use MuMetal sheets
> ...



Luckily I read about interference from this forum, as soon as I remove airport express from U16, music was fully balance again.

Our clock box I don't think generate too much heat, I only turn it off few times since it was in my possession. Yeah, the weather has been 32~36 average daily,  check both U16 and clock daily to ensure it doesn't get too warm. I think I will just place LPS away from U16 regardless to be safe. Did you notice the difference after you add LPS to the clock? I am wondering if sound can be improved by LPS?


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## motberg

roni44 said:


> I totally agree, with what we have now, it's hard to imagine C16 will be much better or if any improvement at all. My go to guy whom has some communication with Gustard thinks as Chinese brand is starting to figure out the benefit of clock, they are charging as much as they can before the others jumping into the bandwagon.



https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/products/shop/master-clocks/

3500 USD +


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## motberg

roni44 said:


> Luckily I read about interference from this forum, as soon as I remove airport express from U16, music was fully balance again.
> 
> Our clock box I don't think generate too much heat, I only turn it off few times since it was in my possession. Yeah, the weather has been 32~36 average daily,  check both U16 and clock daily to ensure it doesn't get too warm. I think I will just place LPS away from U16 regardless to be safe. Did you notice the difference after you add LPS to the clock? I am wondering if sound can be improved by LPS?



I setup up the GPS clock with a LPS from the start, so never had the chance to compare against the wall-wart..
I am going to add a DR 12V LT3045 regulator box in a few weeks - will report if any change.. I do not mind investing in power supplies as they always seem to be useful sooner or later.
I am just a little North of Shenzhen, sometimes hot, but LPS's are pretty cheap and freight is almost free.. so pretty easy for me to not have any switching PS in my stereo room..


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## roni44

motberg said:


> I setup up the GPS clock with a LPS from the start, so never had the chance to compare against the wall-wart..
> I am going to add a DR 12V LT3045 regulator box in a few weeks - will report if any change.. I do not mind investing in power supplies as they always seem to be useful sooner or later.
> I am just a little North of Shenzhen, sometimes hot, but LPS's are pretty cheap and freight is almost free.. so pretty easy for me to not have any switching PS in my stereo room..



I think our clocks are from Shenzhen, I usually stop by HuaQiangBei whenever I can to pick up  few things, next time I'm in the area, might just stock up LPS and possible @FredA's clock just for fun.


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## JaMo (Aug 16, 2019)

Hi,


PLGA said:


> You have tempted me again with this clock artifact for the U16!!
> But I've got a little lost. Wich external clock would you recomend exactly?



Hi,
I think @FredA recommendation is very good. The importance is definately the OCXO used... There are many brands and shapes out there on the market. How the actual Crystal is cut has great impact on the performance. Please find the table a bit down in the Wiki-page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator
From the table You can find that the SC "Stress Compensated" cut has a few positive advantages over other cuts. The most important one is very low phase noise which we like very much. The SC-oven heating demands a bit higher feed (12V) for the higher temperature. Still small numbers.

@FredA 's seems to have the right, SC cut. Oscilloquartz 8663 and the clone of it UCT 108663-01 also has it.

Another link with good to know info: https://www.mutec-net.com/product_ref_10.php#description

/Jan


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## FredA

Thanks @JaMo. Glad to know my ears are still trustable.


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## JaMo (Aug 16, 2019)

FredA said:


> Thanks @JaMo. Glad to know my ears are still trustable.



Your ears are better than most. I ment more that the specs on the OCXO's out there are quite a challange to get.
In my case, my GPSDOCXO-box holds a Trimble 73090 5V OCXO. It is a decent OCXO but not much more. It is a single oven, average performing OCXO. Not bad but not brilliant either. I will put in an Double oven instead.
The Trimble does a surprisingly good job as it is but I still use the stock AC-DC adapter while I'm waiting for the LPS. So I am sure the performance will reach higher grounds... It's a part of the learning process to find out and better things up on the way..
-Right?!
/Jan


----------



## FredA

JaMo said:


> Your ears are better than most. I ment more that the specs on the OCXO's out there are quite a challange to get.
> In my case, my GPSDOCXO-box holds a Trimble 73090 5V OCXO. It is a decent OCXO but not much more. It is a single oven, average performing OCXO. Not bad but not brilliant either. I will put in an Double oven instead.
> The Trimble does a very good job as is but I still use the stock AC-DC adapter while I'm waiting for the LPS. So I am sure the performance will reach higher grounds... It's a part of the learning process to find out and better things up on the way..
> -Right?!
> /Jan


Getting an ultra-low noise psu will never hurt. It is as important as the xo. Looking forward to hearing more feedback when you get it.


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## DACLadder (Aug 17, 2019)

This Mutec REF 10 clock looks interesting (and expensive $4K).  Has published spec of -145 dBc/Hz at 10Hz.  You get what you play for and hopefully this unit is tested to that spec before shipping. 

Also Mutec REF 10 has a lot of good info.  Under Description there is a paragraph called "Debunking the Atomic (clock) Myth" where they claim in audio short term stability (jitter/ phase noise) is more important than long term accuracy of locking a clock to the satellites.  Got me to thinking...  Anyway, too rich for my blood but good reading!

Be careful with pro audio equipment as it looks like the pros use 75 ohm impedances in addition to 50 ohms.  This Mutec has 2 - 50 ohm and 6 - 75 ohm outputs
https://mutec-net.com/product_ref_10.php#description


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## wushuliu

FYI, put my U16 up for sale on ebay...


----------



## JaMo

DACLadder said:


> REF 10 has a lot of good info. Under Description there is a paragraph called "Debunking the Atomic (clock) Myth" where they claim in audio short term stability (jitter/ phase noise) is more important than long term accuracy



This was primarily why I posted the link. I think it was unususal informative.
/Jan


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## PLGA

Hello guys,
One more question.

How long can it be the cable between the clock and the U16? As short as possible???  What about 5 or 6 feet long? Too much?


----------



## 517269

PLGA said:


> Hello guys
> Im sorry, but I still dont get it 100%.
> 
> The clock can be bought here or in any other similar place, thats easy:
> ...



I clicked on the URL and saw the squarewave version as well - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Latest-10M...noa=1&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

I don't know if the receiver performs better with the squarewave....and its $13 less expensive than the sign wave.


----------



## 517269

AudioBang said:


> I clicked on the URL and saw the squarewave version as well - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Latest-10MHZ-SQUARE-WAVE-SQUAREWAVE-GPS-DISCiPLINED-CLOCK-GPSDO-LCD-Display/122872069750?_trkparms=aid=1110001&algo=SPLICE.SIM&ao=2&asc=20160323102634&meid=ec3a4da1a7344992a2deb2b5fef5e012&pid=100623&rk=3&rkt=6&mehot=ag&sd=112700839490&itm=122872069750&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1
> 
> I don't know if the receiver performs better with the squarewave....and its $13 less expensive than the sign wave generator.
> When I used a cell phone repeater for my 3G phone a few years ago, the repeater had to sync up to GPS. It had a 25' cord antenna that I had to bring to a window and it might take up to 12 hours to sync up as it barely reached the window. I don't know if this was specific to this particular box and not that this 10M clock necessarily needs to do this.
> ...


----------



## FredA

AudioBang said:


> I clicked on the URL and saw the squarewave version as well - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Latest-10MHZ-SQUARE-WAVE-SQUAREWAVE-GPS-DISCiPLINED-CLOCK-GPSDO-LCD-Display/122872069750?_trkparms=aid=1110001&algo=SPLICE.SIM&ao=2&asc=20160323102634&meid=ec3a4da1a7344992a2deb2b5fef5e012&pid=100623&rk=3&rkt=6&mehot=ag&sd=112700839490&itm=122872069750&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1
> 
> I don't know if the receiver performs better with the squarewave....and its $13 less expensive than the sign wave.



I would go for the sine. Easier to transmit and the square is derived from sine i believe. I have both on my ocxo and the sine performs better.


----------



## roni44

PLGA said:


> Hello guys,
> One more question.
> 
> How long can it be the cable between the clock and the U16? As short as possible???  What about 5 or 6 feet long? Too much?



Mine is 1.5 meter/5 feet and it works fine.


----------



## Toni-Mang

@roni44 thank you, ...but as always, the i2s as short as possibile, the termination and echo relevant for digital cables? 50-Ohms? and therefor no additional advice for the clock cable?


----------



## 517269

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10MHz-OCXO...ystal-Clock-Frequency-Reference-/112479847613
It'd be nice to have the noise plot to know what this $55 buys you but it would be interesting to pair this with a low-noise regulator [Pulsar or SparkoS] and if it can fit, mount it right inside the USB>I2S converter.


----------



## roni44

Toni-Mang said:


> @roni44 thank you, ...but as always, the i2s as short as possibile, the termination and echo relevant for digital cables? 50-Ohms? and therefor no additional advice for the clock cable?



I haven't compare other 50ohm cables yet, but since the one I got supposedly a military spec so I assume it will be enough. I'm sure there are better cables out there, but not sure how much effect on the overall sound.


----------



## JaMo

AudioBang said:


> It'd be nice to have the noise plot to know what this $55 buys you but it would be interesting to pair this with a low-noise regulator [Pulsar or SparkoS] and if it can fit, mount it right inside the USB>I2S converter.



I should advice You to go with this one instead. Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-MHz-Double-Oven-OCXO-Double-sinewave-OSCILLOQUARTZ-8663-XS-10MHZ/253288060152?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item3af92514f8:g:zb4AAOSwGzhaIOt4&enc=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&checksum=253288060152bff0385493bd4ccebfbc098fa6985c90
I got mine delivered and it is excellent.
/Jan


----------



## motberg

JaMo said:


> I should advice You to go with this one instead. Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-MHz-Double-Oven-OCXO-Double-sinewave-OSCILLOQUARTZ-8663-XS-10MHZ/253288060152?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item3af92514f8:g:zb4AAOSwGzhaIOt4&enc=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&checksum=253288060152bff0385493bd4ccebfbc098fa6985c90
> I got mine delivered and it is excellent.
> /Jan


What voltage are you using ?


----------



## JaMo (Aug 26, 2019)

motberg said:


> What voltage are you using ?



Hi,
I am using an universal 12V 2A power supply right now (5.5 mm x 2.1 mm, center postive). It works just fine with it but I am waiting to get a LPS delivered (same values 12V, 2A) to get even better performance from it.
/Jan


----------



## anroj

Toni-Mang said:


> i was sceptical, and you where right as you suggested -> Wait - the u16 needs to burn in/ the V2A boards are clearly better/ the acusilicon clocks are a must have...
> So to try the OCXO with the linear power source is a clear way for me, but i will also wait for the C16 feedback here…
> Thank you very much @FredA, @JaMo and @DACLadder for sharing this!



I just saw your post about waiting on the C16. I got mine yesterday and connected it for some initial impressions as I'm waiting on a new USB Blaster so I can finally upgrade my R8 firmware. What I heard during my short listening session was a greater sense of height, soundstage width and depth, more three-dimensionality, better separation of instruments and performers, better timing and pop. Also, the same songs seem to be louder through the C16 vs. U16 internal clocks. I will post more once the USB Blaster arrives and I have a chance to upgrade the firmware and burn the R8 in a bit.


----------



## Toni-Mang

Thank you very much for your impression...i see the c16 as an expensive alternative to the semi diy ocxo...and i think,
the combination should look and feel perfect!


----------



## anroj

I was going to go the GPSDO route, but I have quite a bit of distance from my equipment to the nearest window, plus, I don't think my wife would have gone for the antenna hanging out a window. The C16 was definitely more than I planned to spend, but I'm happy with it and I keep peace in my household.


----------



## JaMo (Aug 28, 2019)

Hi,
I just wanted to report that the Oscilloquarts OCXO, the one in the very long link above, performs very well. It is cheap for what is is and it does an excellent job som far. Mine has been powered on since saturday, so it's about 90 hours. The performance from it clearly beats the accusilicons inside the U16, and this already.

This is a low cost solution that seems to be a high value upgrade in the setup. The C16 should also, but at its high price.
/Jan


----------



## DACLadder

Yesterday I received the same Oscilloquartz OCXO described above by @JaMo.  I was a skeptic but no longer.  I have better sound on my Audio GD DACs with the 10Mhz OCXO driving the U16 external clock input.  And I am using a +12V power supply (Off Ramp 5 Dynamo linear supply).   Worthy upgrade for a several percent better, clearly audible sound improvement.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

DACLadder said:


> Yesterday I received the same Oscilloquartz OCXO described above by @JaMo.  I was a skeptic but no longer.  I have better sound on my Audio GD DACs with the 10Mhz OCXO driving the U16 external clock input.  And I am using a +12V power supply (Off Ramp 5 Dynamo linear supply).   Worthy upgrade for a several percent better, clearly audible sound improvement.



Is there a casing available for the OXCO board ?


----------



## DACLadder

UsoppNoKami said:


> Is there a casing available for the OXCO board ?



Looking into that now that I have the board.


----------



## 517269 (Aug 28, 2019)

DACLadder said:


> Yesterday I received the same Oscilloquartz OCXO described above by @JaMo.  I was a skeptic but no longer.  I have better sound on my Audio GD DACs with the 10Mhz OCXO driving the U16 external clock input.  And I am using a +12V power supply (Off Ramp 5 Dynamo linear supply).   Worthy upgrade for a several percent better, clearly audible sound improvement.



It'd be nice if there was an OCXO upgrade for the PCM clock on the Audio GD DACs.... Probably better served discussing on the Audio GD DAC thread but there is overlap in topic so what the heck -
When I used the original Uptone USB Regen I swapped the oscillator out with a $25 Connor Winfield TCXO [Crystek hadn't committed to building a 24MHz TCXO at that time] and noticed the soundstage snapped into a noticably more precise focus. I later upgraded the two oscillators on the Vega DAC USB board but to no effect. I wonder if there was any difference when Kingwa did the oscillator upgrade on the Amanero USB board on the Audio GD...

The noise plot of the Connor Winfield was on par with the Crystek 575 and the sound of the modded original regen was similar to the newer Uptone ISO Regen. I heard about the Pulsar OCXO on a Computer Audiofile thread where tweekers were upgrading the Uptone Regen with outboard mounted New Class D clocks to very positive effect. A few doubting tech-heads [validly so in terms of the very long clock leads likely offsetting some of the gains in jitter reduction from the expensive New Class D]  speculated that there couldn't be a difference [there was definately a positive difference experienced from my own mod] and asserted that any clock upgrade would be best served on the DAC itself.
So I ordered a 100MHz Pulsar OCXO and regulator [it took five months of customs red tape and lost forms through the mail from US to Italy] for my Auralic Vega DAC which already used the [outstandingly good for $25]  Crystek 575. I would say the jump in soundstage focus was several times that of the Uptone USB oscillator upgrade. But the Pulsar was over $400USD. Several years later, I'm sure there are cost effective alternatives... It'd be great to have an OCXO upgrade for at least the PCM playback on the Audio GD DACs. Probably a more appropriate post under the Audio GD thread but I just received my AGD R8HE a week ago, have about 170 hours on it [plus 300 factory] and find it is very natural and relaxed [compared to a more spot lit and clinical Vega] has good 180 degree width and detail but not nearly the last word in depth. Although I can attest that a good USB source makes a very significant difference, maybe it's time for me to explore getting off that Amanero USB interface on the Audio GD that nearly everyone has moved on from.


----------



## PLGA

DACLadder said:


> Yesterday I received the same Oscilloquartz OCXO described above by @JaMo.  I was a skeptic but no longer.  I have better sound on my Audio GD DACs with the 10Mhz OCXO driving the U16 external clock input.  And I am using a +12V power supply (Off Ramp 5 Dynamo linear supply).   Worthy upgrade for a several percent better, clearly audible sound improvement.



Hello Scott,
Thank you, JaMo and Fred for the information.

A couple of questions. 

1. You say that you are using a 12V PSU, but I understand that seller posts on ebay 13/15V. Am I correct? Can you use it with a 12V PSU with no problem?

2. How much do you estimate its consumption? 1A? 2A?


----------



## PLGA

Hello guys,
Wich cable do you recomend to use to connect the OCXO to the U16? Can anyone post a link for ebay?

Of course one cheap with good price/performance ratio.


----------



## JaMo

PLGA said:


> Hello Scott,
> Thank you, JaMo and Fred for the information.
> 
> A couple of questions.
> ...



The circuit board has printed +12 to +15V. Current needed is about 1,5 Amps so with a little margin 2 Amp is enough and works well for me. Scott uses 12V 3 Amps.
/Jan


----------



## JaMo

PLGA said:


> Hello guys,
> Wich cable do you recomend to use to connect the OCXO to the U16? Can anyone post a link for ebay?
> 
> Of course one cheap with good price/performance ratio.


Sorry, can't help You there. I had some stored (Military spec from 1966) Maybe anyone else can help You with this one.
/J


----------



## PLGA

JaMo said:


> The circuit board has printed +12 to +15V. Current needed is about 1,5 Amps so with a little margin 2 Amp is enough and works well for me. Scott uses 12V 3 Amps.
> /Jan



Thank you!


----------



## DACLadder (Aug 28, 2019)

The U16 external clock input is 50 ohms.  Make sure the OCXO and cable impedances are 50 ohm to match.

The U16 connector type is BNC.  You may find OCXOs with SMA type and others.  Just have to find a cable that matches both ends.

RG-58 cable is the standard size 50 ohm cable (RG-59 is 75 ohm).  You may also see smaller diameter RG-174 50 ohm cable which has more loss than RG-58.  For long runs RG-58 or better.  There are also double shielded cables that have different names and looking into currently.

Like anything else in audio a shorter cable is better.  Lower loss and attenuation.  I just use a 1m generic RG-58 cable with BNCs on each end.


----------



## Thenewguy007

JaMo said:


> I should advice You to go with this one instead. Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-MHz-Double-Oven-OCXO-Double-sinewave-OSCILLOQUARTZ-8663-XS-10MHZ/253288060152?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item3af92514f8:g:zb4AAOSwGzhaIOt4&enc=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&checksum=253288060152bff0385493bd4ccebfbc098fa6985c90
> I got mine delivered and it is excellent.
> /Jan



So you power it & then just plug a BNC cable to on of the inputs on it & then to the Gustard & that's it? It automatically recognizes the new clock?


----------



## DACLadder (Aug 28, 2019)

You have to switch to Ext. clock on each power up.  Connect the clock and press the left button until you see EXT on the display.

I was listening for 30 minutes today and suddenly realized I was actually on INT.  So check when power is applied to the U16.  INT is default.


----------



## roni44

PLGA said:


> Hello guys,
> Wich cable do you recomend to use to connect the OCXO to the U16? Can anyone post a link for ebay?
> 
> Of course one cheap with good price/performance ratio.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thermax-M1...Connector-bnc-m23329-3-02-04-3m-/181284224471

Try this one, I got the same cable for my GPSDO, but mine is 1.5m, you can try to search for same cable in shortest length or ask the seller, and as always, you can have it terminated locally.


----------



## 517269

It would be ideal to an have an integral 10Mhz OCXO* inside* the U16, possibly eliminating the TCXO [and offsetting some of the upgrade cost] and having the 10Mhz reference be an output instead of an input.


----------



## FredA

AudioBang said:


> It would be ideal to an have an integral 10Mhz OCXO* inside* the U16, possibly eliminating the TCXO [and offsetting some of the upgrade cost] and having the 10Mhz reference be an output instead of an input.


It is not just the ocxo, it is how clean its signal is. The u16 would need a much bigger chassis, shielding and others precautions to ensure its clock signal is  clean in the first place and remains as such. If such precautions were taken for the current tcxos, i am not sure the external clock would make so much difference. But the u16's price would increase by much.


----------



## 517269

Here is a screen shot of the Made in China - Accusilicon 10Mhz OCXO with a whopping 15dB lower noise @ 1Hz than a Crystek 957. 

It'd be nice to know its cost and to compare the noise with the $50  solution.


----------



## fragoulisnaval

Good afternoon gentlemen,

I have just received mine Gustard C16 and i am eager to connect it on U16 and hear, whatever there is to hear, improvement.

Can someone please explain to me what is the difference between the "gentle" and "vivid" outputs? Which output do you prefer? Are you using the stock bnc cable or not?

Should there be any difference in the first place, since we are talking about clock signals here?

Sorry for the too many questions.


----------



## anroj

fragoulisnaval said:


> Good afternoon gentlemen,
> 
> I have just received mine Gustard C16 and i am eager to connect it on U16 and hear, whatever there is to hear, improvement.
> 
> ...


Hi, I have had my 16 for a couple of weeks now and I have not tried the gentle outputs. I have not seen anything that explains the difference. Maybe sine vs. square wave, but that is just a guess. The stock cable is too short for my system so I purchased a different on eBay.


----------



## Asimov-kln

Good Evening!

Yesterday I had to abandoned the Gustard U-16 and using again my old Schiit Eitr.
In last couple of weeks the Gustard U-16 made me mad. I got this unit couple of months ago and it came with V1.61 firmware and there was no
problem playing all the sample rate ( didn't tried DSD). But from last couple of weeks it started showing intermittent playing problem like freezing, distorted sound, static sound and not finding the device.
Changed the firmware to 1.61NFB but the problem remains the same. So I had to replace it with Eitr. 

Dear Inmates, unless the Gustard resolves this issue completely, please do not recommend this product. 
We should not promote this faulty product and make others to suffer.  

Happy listening!


----------



## Monolithic (Sep 5, 2019)

fragoulisnaval said:


> Good afternoon gentlemen,
> 
> I have just received mine Gustard C16 and i am eager to connect it on U16 and hear, whatever there is to hear, improvement.
> 
> ...



From the internal photos, it looks like only three of the six outputs are isolated. Looking at the unit from the front, the isolated outputs would be the three on the right side at the rear (the "gentle" outputs).


-- "vivid" = C16 NON-ISOLATED CLOCKS and
-- "gentle" = C16 ISOLATED CLOCKS.


*Steps:*

1.The front panel's vivid and gentle buttons have the function of enabling or turning off the clock output of the same name on the rear panel.

2.Each time the power is turned on for the first fifteen minutes, the double LED flashes to indicate warm-up. At the same time, all clock output ports on the rear panel have no output.

3.After 15 minutes of power on, the dual LEDs are always on and all outputs are automatically turned on.

4. During the fifteen-minute warm-up period, you can ignore the warm-up to achieve direct output by pressing the vivid or gentle button on the front panel.


----------



## MrCypruz

anroj said:


> Hi, I have had my 16 for a couple of weeks now and I have not tried the gentle outputs. I have not seen anything that explains the difference. Maybe sine vs. square wave, but that is just a guess. The stock cable is too short for my system so I purchased a different on eBay.


Can you please share your experience with the C16 hooked to the U16? Is the improvement easily noticeable? Does it justify the cost of the C16? I’m thinking about getting one but I don’t want to it “blindly”.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## anroj

JaMo said:


> Sorry, can't help You there. I had some stored (Military spec from 1966) Maybe anyone else can help You with this one.
> /J[/QUOTE
> 
> You can do a search on eBay for 50 Ohm BNC cable. I bought this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-MADE-BE...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## anroj

MrCypruz said:


> Can you please share your experience with the C16 hooked to the U16? Is the improvement easily noticeable? Does it justify the cost of the C16? I’m thinking about getting one but I don’t want to it “blindly”.  Thanks in advance.



The C16 has made a marked improvement in my system and you can readily hear the difference between the internal clock of the U16 and the external C16 10Mhz clock. There is more air around instruments and voices, front-to-back and side-to-side soundstage has improved, timing is better, and the whole presentation is a lot more analog-like.


----------



## MrCypruz

anroj said:


> The C16 has made a marked improvement in my system and you can readily hear the difference between the internal clock of the U16 and the external C16 10Mhz clock. There is more air around instruments and voices, front-to-back and side-to-side soundstage has improved, timing is better, and the whole presentation is a lot more analog-like.


Thank you very much for sharing your impressions. I’m going to pull the trigger and give it a spin. I hope I like it.


----------



## anroj

MrCypruz said:


> Thank you very much for sharing your impressions. I’m going to pull the trigger and give it a spin. I hope I like it.


I really like it. I leave mine powered on all the time. I have had 0 issues with it. I was going to go the GPSDO route, but my wife wouldn't let me hang the antenna out a window so I ended up purchasing the C16 and I'm glad I did.


----------



## fragoulisnaval

anroj said:


> Hi, I have had my 16 for a couple of weeks now and I have not tried the gentle outputs. I have not seen anything that explains the difference. Maybe sine vs. square wave, but that is just a guess. The stock cable is too short for my system so I purchased a different on eBay.



How much time passed since the clock stabilized? can you advise an approximate burn in period?



anroj said:


> The C16 has made a marked improvement in my system and you can readily hear the difference between the internal clock of the U16 and the external C16 10Mhz clock. There is more air around instruments and voices, front-to-back and side-to-side soundstage has improved, timing is better, and the whole presentation is a lot more analog-like.



I concur to your comments above. Of course, mine is only two days old, always on, and maybe differences will be more clearly audible. However , listening to tracks i know well, i agree with you.


----------



## anroj

fragoulisnaval said:


> How much time passed since the clock stabilized? can you advise an approximate burn in period?
> 
> On initial connection and power up, the C16 stabilized in about 20 minutes and I would estimate the burn in period to be about 100 hours powered on constantly.
> 
> ...



Its good on initial clock stabilization, and gets much better after about 100 hours.


----------



## Strappo

I got my U16 about a month ago and I wanted to ask some advice about clocking. All my content is redbook CDs ripped and played back in JRiver. 

So far my 2ch chain is: 
- Gustard U16 AES out 
- Minidsp 88d AES in, AES out 
- Lynx Aurora 8 DAC, AES in, 8ch analog out 

The Minidsp 88d is asynchronous, so whatever I send it is going to get a sample rate conversion. This means the ideal, of one clock for all three boxes cant happen. 

This leaves me with three choices for clocking: 
1) internal Lynx clock 
2) Lynx sync to AES inputs (takes 40 seconds to sync then makes a popping sound as it locks) 
3) Lynx sync to external VIA a bnc cable back to the U16 

I am fairly sure 2) and 3) sound best, the 40 second sync time makes A/Bing them crazy hard though.


----------



## DACLadder

Found some nice 50 ohm cables on Ebay for connecting external clocks to the U16.  Made with RG400 coax cable which has silver plated wires, good performance, and more easily bendable versus stiffer, thicker RG58.  The cables come terminated with BNC connectors (in my case) and available in very short lengths.  I bought 0.5 and 1 ft. cables for my needs but even longer lengths available,

Just search Ebay “bnc male to bnc male RG400”.  If you need another connector type on one end just change the search like “sma to bnc male rg400”.  Many vendors available.


----------



## Chopin75

DACLadder said:


> Found some nice 50 ohm cables on Ebay for connecting external clocks to the U16.  Made with RG400 coax cable which has silver plated wires, good performance, and more easily bendable versus stiffer, thicker RG58.  The cables come terminated with BNC connectors (in my case) and available in very short lengths.  I bought 0.5 and 1 ft. cables for my needs but even longer lengths available,
> 
> Just search Ebay “bnc male to bnc male RG400”.  If you need another connector type on one end just change the search like “sma to bnc male rg400”.  Many vendors available.


I think the Oyaide makes very nice silver BNC digital interconnect and not expensive if you get from eBay or amazon. I have a 75 ohm oner for audio. But I am not sure if they have the 50 ohm ones.


----------



## FredA

DACLadder said:


> Found some nice 50 ohm cables on Ebay for connecting external clocks to the U16.  Made with RG400 coax cable which has silver plated wires, good performance, and more easily bendable versus stiffer, thicker RG58.  The cables come terminated with BNC connectors (in my case) and available in very short lengths.  I bought 0.5 and 1 ft. cables for my needs but even longer lengths available,
> 
> Just search Ebay “bnc male to bnc male RG400”.  If you need another connector type on one end just change the search like “sma to bnc male rg400”.  Many vendors available.


Ordered a 1ft. one. Thanks!


----------



## DACLadder

Oyaide appears to only have 75 ohm cables.   http://www.oyaide.com/ENGLISH/AUDIO/products_category/digital_cable/index.html

Here's a RG400 vs. RG58 coax chart.  RG400 has higher bandwidth and lower loss.  Double shielded versus single on RG58.  There are other cable stocks available but finding an affordable 50 ohm cable may be challenging.  RG400 seems readily available and the best bang for the buck.  Still researching....


----------



## MrCypruz

anroj said:


> I really like it. I leave mine powered on all the time. I have had 0 issues with it. I was going to go the GPSDO route, but my wife wouldn't let me hang the antenna out a window so I ended up purchasing the C16 and I'm glad I did.



I received my C16 today and I’ve clocked about 5hrs of listening time...the difference is there, very audible. The C16 brings indeed more air, separation and reduces the graininess of the internal clock! 
Thank you very much for your impressions and for recommending the C16 without hesitation. I can’t wait to get it burned-in to unleash its full potential.


----------



## anroj

MrCypruz said:


> I received my C16 today and I’ve clocked about 5hrs of listening time...the difference is there, very audible. The C16 brings indeed more air, separation and reduces the graininess of the internal clock!
> Thank you very much for your impressions and for recommending the C16 without hesitation. I can’t wait to get it burned-in to unleash its full potential.


I’m glad you’re enjoying the C16. I continue to smile every time I fire up my system. I was listening to “Strode Rode” from Sonny Rollins Saxaphone Colossus last night and the power and tone of his saxophone was amazing.


----------



## wwmhf (Sep 18, 2019)

I received the OCXO suggested by JaMo in the post Post #1292 above. I quickly connected it to my system, and below is my quick report:

1. I use one of my spare power supplies with this OCXO, and this power supply was adjusted to output 12.2v or so.
2. I connect this OCXO to the U16 by a cable bought on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3ft-1m-RG58-Low-Loss-Coax-RF-50Ω-BNC-Male-to-Male-Crimp-Jumper-Cable-Connector/282599302248?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

This OCXO seems to be able to provide two outputs.
3. This OCXO is running hotter than I expected. I am not surprised if it draws more than 1A.
4. In the first few minutes after turned on, this OCXO generated some periodical white noise so that it was not possible to enjoy music. Fortunately, the noise disappeared a few minutes later.  
5. I play wave files ripped from my CDs via foobar2000 up-sampled to DSD128. So far, listening to Mozart's Piano Sonatas played by Mitsuko Uchidamy, I feel that my system sounds fuller with this external clock than the internal one. This is only the first disk.


----------



## JaMo (Sep 18, 2019)

wwmhf said:


> I received the OCXO suggested by JaMo in the post Post #1292 above. I quickly connected it to my system, and below is my quick report:
> 
> 1. I use one of my spare power supplies with this OCXO, and this power supply was adjusted to output 12.2v or so.
> 2. I connect this OCXO to the U16 by a cable bought on ebay:
> ...



Hi @wwmhf,
Good to hear. Yes it draws about 1,2Amps. Keep it powered on at all times. After a few days it really shows what You have added to the chain. It benefits from a good power supply so to get out the most of it buy a good and dead silent 12V 2A Linear Power supply for it. @FredA had a good recommendation in an earlier post in this thread.
/Jan


----------



## PeterCraig

Someone should put all this stuff into a chassis and sell it for $659 USD


----------



## PeterCraig

Actually I would be the (all thumbs) guy paying the $659. But I love hearing the DIY success stories. Very inspiring guys.


----------



## wwmhf

I am using a linear power supply I built myself. It is not the best I have, but this one can output 2A. My other so called better power supplies can only output 1A. 

Switching between the internal and this OCXO external clocks, I feel that the external one sounds louder (more solid?), even though not that louder, but noticeable. The instruments in a small jazz band sound more distinct. Vocals are enjoyable too. 

Once again, I would like to mention that the OCXO metal box is quite hot, I do not want to put my fingers on it for more than a few seconds. Should we use a heat sink around this metal box? Is this because it is described as a "Double Oven" OCXO in its Ebay AD? 

This OCXO came as a package better than I expected. It contains two BNC to SMA adapters and the board has 4 metal standoffs already installed. It is not hard to install this OCXO in a metal case, I only need to do some drilling.


----------



## wwmhf

I think this OCXO is well built. It seems to be for industrial/professional applications, not like those parts/modules we often see in a hifi equipment.


----------



## JaMo (Sep 19, 2019)

wwmhf said:


> Should we use a heat sink around this metal box?



No, but put it/mount it into a box to further stabilize the temperature on it. The thermal impact of the ambient temperature is one thing that its electronics compensates for. The double oven is less sensitive but still benefits "no" or at least slow changes.

Some guys put neoprene isolation on the OCXO to acheive maximum stability. (The UCT is a clone of the Oscilloquartz OCXO (=Double oven)).


----------



## zeid2

I still have occasional dropouts of signal from U16 after the installation of the 1.61_nfb firmware. On all outputs - I2S, SPDIF and AES/EBU. On higher rate files the dropouts are more frequent. The Gustard is fed from WB external HDD to Bryston BDP-1 to SOtM tX-USBUltra. Singxer SU-1 behaves exemplary in the same configuration. The problem is that the Gustard sounds better. I tried several USB cables, to no avail. I do not want to go back to 1.4 firmware as it sounds worse and cannot be used simultaneously for AES/EBU and I2S outputs. It is either or. Any suggestions on what I am doing wrong? Thanks.


----------



## wwmhf

I never consider heat in such a beneficial way. This is educational, thanks for explanation. 



JaMo said:


> No, but put it/mount it into a box to further stabilize the temperature on it. The thermal impact of the ambient temperature is one thing that its electronics compensates for. The double oven is less sensitive but still benefits "no" or at least slow changes.
> 
> Some guys put neoprene isolation on the OCXO to acheive maximum stability. (The UCT is a clone of the Oscilloquartz OCXO (=Double oven)).


----------



## ProLoL

Hello, I experience distortion at all rates below 96/24 via i2s, I'd really like to use 44/24, any suggestions?


----------



## DACLadder

@ProLoL  Have you selected the proper I2S output signal configuration for your DAC?


----------



## ProLoL

Using psa mode on latest 1.61 version feeding my audio gd r2r11, 1.4 version acts the same.


----------



## DACLadder

@ProLoL  Hmm... I am using with AGD R7 and no issues with 44K.   176K and 192K different story though as playback sometimes full of noise and dropouts at those higher speeds.


----------



## MrCypruz

I don't know if I'm doing it right or if I'm just a lucky person who never had any issues with the U16...I've it connected to a Mac Mini Server via an AudioQuest Carbon with ifi ipurifier and wyred 4 sound usb reclocker. The U16 is connected to the C16 external clock via a 50 ohm BNC cable. Firmware version is 1.61 (sounds better than 1.4 & 1.71 and is more stable than 1.61 NFB on my system), I2S configuration is for HoloSpring DAC. I've never experienced any pops, clicks, dropouts, restarts at ANY sampling rate - using it as a Roon endpoint and I've used all possible sampling rates from 44.1 KHz to 705 kHz PCM and from DSD64 to DSD512 without any issues. The only thing I've noticed is that it may restart by itself at the beginning of a song after being turned on for over 72 hrs without playing anything. So I'm not sure if the USB line hygiene I've implemented helps in maintaining the U16's proper functionality (which i personally doubt) or if it's just luck (which I believe).


----------



## DACLadder

My theory, which is probably total hogwash, the U16 does not have enough buffer memory, poorly implemented buffer memory, or not optimized Windows driver.  In Windows I have better performance with the ASIO driver where I can set butter sizes using the Thesycon applet to change buffer size.  Have to use ASIO driver in Windows which is not dedicated playback. But I get better operational performance with ASIO.  Using WASAPI the dropouts at higher sampling rates return.

The U16 may work great paired with the right equipment and set to a certain mode of operation.  Just seems one size does not fit all.  The Singxers (all three - F1, SU-1, SU-6) work better in all my systems.


----------



## MrCypruz

That makes sense..I read somewhere that it only has 128 MB memory If I'm not mistaken. I didn't have any issues when I used it on my Windows Laptop with ASIO drivers but the amount of restarts reduced significantly with the Mac mini.


----------



## DACLadder

Seems like 128MB is a healthy amount of buffer memory.  With the Aurender I can hear tiny ticks (small dropouts I guess) at the start of 96K tracks.  This stops after a few seconds until the next song is cued up for play (back to back).  Seems the buffer memory doesn't have enough data at the start of tracks.  176K and above is unusable with the U16/ Aurender.  Again the Singxers have no issues.  I even pulled out the old Off Ramp 5 DDC and it works better operationally versus the U16 with the Aurender.

DSD64 works great though with the U16 and Aurender.  Solid performance.


----------



## soumya.banerjee

We should not use a qualifier like 'only' for a ring buffer of size 128 MB - that's about 47 seconds of 32 bit 352.8 kHz data!
We need to understand that USB receivers like these using ESS / Amaenero / XMOS use USB 2 Isochronous interrupts of 8kHz. So ideally you might want to keep driver buffers as high you might want to, the optimal results are obtained only when 8000 samples are tranferred per interrupt request.
This is an issue for redbook CD as 44100 is not a multiple of 8. For anything higher or mutiples of 48 this is alleviated.
Further for computer systems, you want to align the samples in block sizes which are multiples of 64 in memory. Which means you will ideally get optimal performance with highest buffer size polled at 8192 samples per transfer. This translates to 0.0232 seconds for 352.8 k and 0.1857 seconds for redbook.
If you know how to configure ALSA or Kernel streaming with these parameters, you can extract a lot of performance from USB receivers.


----------



## PLGA

Hello guys,
I think I asked this question before, but I cannot find it.

I recetntly bought the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo and, eventhough it sounds very good, I'm having more issues with the U16 than I've had with the Notebook connected directly to the U16.

Does anyone of you have the SMS-200 (Ultra or not) working relatively fine with the U16? I would like to ask you some questions about wich setting options you recomend. 

Thank you.


----------



## PLGA

Im sorry, I forgot to mention that I run the SOtM SMS-200 with Audinirvana plus with Windows 10 and the firmware on the U16 is PS Audio 1.4.

Anyone with a similar set up?


----------



## ProLoL

The U16 worked well with 48/24 yesterday. Today it seems not to like 48/24 and works only with 96/24 and above..
Is version 1.61 faulty? other versions are more stable?


----------



## PLGA

The only version I can use is 1.4 PSA Audio.

1.77 and two 1.61 give me trouble swaping channels, presenting a weird and changing soundstage, etc.

But 1.4 PSA Audio only works with 44.1 kHz 16 bit songs and it gives me some trouble when I want to change from one track to another. I will make some more test with different configurations to see if I can make it work better, but I'm kind of tired of the U16. If I can't make it work better, I think I may sell it and buy another one of the SIngxers.

I listen to all of my music streaming Tidal with Audinirvana Plus on Windows 10 and Im feeding the U16 with a SOtM SMS-200 Ultra bridge.


----------



## DACLadder

Either the ESS chip is not capable of consistent performance in this mode of operation (hi-rez PCM/ DSD) or firmware is seriously lacking optimization for all users (different sources and DACs).  Since several U16 firmware releases didn’t address my issues I am thinking it is just not capable of consistent operation with my equipment unlike Amanero and the Singxers.

But the U16 sounds good though and its price is right.  Does the U16 work 100% with a Gustard DAC?


----------



## PLGA

I've just tried the 1.61 NFB firmware version again and changing the output from the U16. Well, same result, channels swaped.

This weekend I will try the U16 with different settings options on Audinirvana and on the SOtM SMS-200. 

I will also compare the sound of U16 against the SOtM SMS-200 plus the W4S RUR running directly into the Amanero USB input of the R8, to see if its worthwile keeping it.


----------



## DACLadder

Migrating from 1.4 PSA to 1.61 requires you to set I2S output per DAC type.  Most likely Gustard (GSD) is default.  Are the adjustment steps documented somewhere?


----------



## wwmhf

DACLadder said:


> Either the ESS chip is not capable of consistent performance in this mode of operation (hi-rez PCM/ DSD) or firmware is seriously lacking optimization for all users (different sources and DACs).  Since several U16 firmware releases didn’t address my issues I am thinking it is just not capable of consistent operation with my equipment unlike Amanero and the Singxers.
> 
> But the U16 sounds good though and its price is right.  Does the U16 work 100% with a Gustard DAC?



I am using U16 with a Gustard X20. I have no issues playing wave files ripped from CDs, either no upsampling or upsampling to DSD128 in foobar200. Upsampling to DSD256 also works smoothly most of the time.


----------



## motberg

PLGA said:


> I've just tried the 1.61 NFB firmware version again and changing the output from the U16. Well, same result, channels swaped.
> 
> This weekend I will try the U16 with different settings options on Audinirvana and on the SOtM SMS-200.
> 
> I will also compare the sound of U16 against the SOtM SMS-200 plus the W4S RUR running directly into the Amanero USB input of the R8, to see if its worthwile keeping it.



It would be interesting if you try direct from your WIN10 computer to the U16 to see if the problem is Linux related.
I am using U16 to Audio-GD NOS7, PCM only, Windows server 2019, seems pretty stable all rates with maybe an very occasional disconnect when changing rates but that may not be related to U16 as I have not identified the cause. I am thinking U16/R8 would be a fantastic PCM combo when working correctly, even better with 10M clock...
I compared isolated Amanero to U16 (i2s) on a R1, Used W4S Recovery on both, Amanero kind of ss sound very very close to 5V modded SU-1, the U16 more tubelike.. I preferred the U16 even though I had some trouble with sample rates (needed to upsample everything to 384k iirc...) but I am sure some would prefer the Amanero presentation.


----------



## motberg

wwmhf said:


> I am using U16 with a Gustard X20. I have no issues playing wave files ripped from CDs, either no upsampling or upsampling to DSD128 in foobar200. Upsampling to DSD256 also works smoothly most of the time.


Hi, is your Gustard ES9028PRO x 2 ?
How do you find the dynamics, like piano/snare/etc. attack?
I am trying a new DAC (not Gustard or Audio-GD) but so far this thing has nothing in dynamic attack that gets close to what I am familiar with.
I am going to try a U16 i2s into this thing to see if that helps...


----------



## FredA

As much as i like how the u16 sounds, i hate having to reboot my usbridge every two hours because playback will stall. Kingwa, (Audio-gd)  should come up with a new DI soon.  Looking forward to this. Should be better than the u16, both with stability and sound quality, plus there will be a version with a regenerative psu. Guess which version i'll get...


----------



## wwmhf

motberg said:


> Hi, is your Gustard ES9028PRO x 2 ?
> How do you find the dynamics, like piano/snare/etc. attack?
> I am trying a new DAC (not Gustard or Audio-GD) but so far this thing has nothing in dynamic attack that gets close to what I am familiar with.
> I am going to try a U16 i2s into this thing to see if that helps...



No, mine uses 2 x ESS Technology ES9018, an older generation than the Gustard ES9028PRO x 2. 
I think the dynamics is acceptable for now with helps from U16 and 10MHz external clock.


----------



## PLGA

motberg said:


> It would be interesting if you try direct from your WIN10 computer to the U16 to see if the problem is Linux related.
> I am using U16 to Audio-GD NOS7, PCM only, Windows server 2019, seems pretty stable all rates with maybe an very occasional disconnect when changing rates but that may not be related to U16 as I have not identified the cause. I am thinking U16/R8 would be a fantastic PCM combo when working correctly, even better with 10M clock...
> I compared isolated Amanero to U16 (i2s) on a R1, Used W4S Recovery on both, Amanero kind of ss sound very very close to 5V modded SU-1, the U16 more tubelike.. I preferred the U16 even though I had some trouble with sample rates (needed to upsample everything to 384k iirc...) but I am sure some would prefer the Amanero presentation.



Thanks motberg for the information. 

In the last couple of hours I've been trying 1.61 (non NFB) firmware with PS Audio output on my U16 (thanks Scott for the help) and it seems to work ok finally! I hope!

I only use FLAC PCM 44.1 kHz 16 bits streaming Tidal with Audinirvana on Windows 10 and feeding the U16 with the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo. My R8 sounds very very nice with this combo. I can't wait for the OCXO clock upgrade!


----------



## ProLoL

PLGA said:


> Thanks motberg for the information.
> 
> In the last couple of hours I've been trying 1.61 (non NFB) firmware with PS Audio output on my U16 (thanks Scott for the help) and it seems to work ok finally! I hope!
> 
> I only use FLAC PCM 44.1 kHz 16 bits streaming Tidal with Audinirvana on Windows 10 and feeding the U16 with the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo. My R8 sounds very very nice with this combo. I can't wait for the OCXO clock upgrade!



Hey, is there a link for that firmware? unable to find it.


----------



## JaMo (Sep 27, 2019)

ProLoL said:


> Hey, is there a link for that firmware? unable to find it.



Link: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...ing-ess-usb-chip.888947/page-70#post-15068991

Non NFB : https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/

/Jan


----------



## ProLoL (Sep 27, 2019)

Thanks, I'll try those! the non nfb is the one available on the website? currently using it able to play only 96/24 and above.

PS: I could use 48/24 with the nfb version though the non nfb sounds better at 96/24.


----------



## JaMo

ProLoL said:


> Thanks, I'll try those! the non nfb is the one available on the website? currently using it able to play only 96/24 and above.



Yes, it's the one from Chenzenaudio


----------



## PLGA

Hi ProLoL
I dont have the link here for the 1.61 firmware (Im on another PC), but I guess it's the one JaMo says.

It's important to mention that I've only tried it with Tidal at 44.1 kHz, not higher sample rates. I will do it this weekend. Nevertheless, it would be upsampling with Audinirvana and, honestly, I don't know if I've ever noticed a difference in quality sound, at least not big at all. I'm perfectly fine with 44.1.

The most important thing is that with that firmware I don't have noise when I change tracks.


----------



## ProLoL

PLGA said:


> Hi ProLoL
> I dont have the link here for the 1.61 firmware (Im on another PC), but I guess it's the one JaMo says.
> 
> It's important to mention that I've only tried it with Tidal at 44.1 kHz, not higher sample rates. I will do it this weekend. Nevertheless, it would be upsampling with Audinirvana and, honestly, I don't know if I've ever noticed a difference in quality sound, at least not big at all. I'm perfectly fine with 44.1.
> ...



Thanks, the 44.1k is a more snappy sounding and oversampling adds a bit of smoothness. I'm fine with 96/24, sounds chocolaty with my R2R11.


----------



## PLGA

Well, I've found more impact changing other things like Ethernet cable vs WiFi, antivibration feet, cables lenght, etc. In my experience upsampling with software hasn't change much the sound, may be a little bit, but it could be placebo effect. In fact, with the U16, it only gave me trouble!   Nevertheless, I will try it again this weekend with the 1.61 firmware.


----------



## wwmhf

U16 + 10Mhz external clock generate smoother music and more details on my system. This U16 is a fun toy which has enhanced my system beyond my expectation.


----------



## PLGA

One last thing. I've found out a way to avoid random pink noise on the U16 with the R8 DAC, with V3A firmware at least. 

I setted Syn on "1" from the front panel and I've got no more out of the blue random pink noise. It works fine in my system streaming Tidal (PCM 44.1 Khz) with Audinirvana+ on Windows 10, the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra feeding the U16 and the 1.61 NFB firmware on it. I knock on wood as it's been a pretty frustrating experience during this days. I almost gave up on the U16.

If you have the R8, R7, or their HE versions, and you have noise, may be this setting can work fine for you.

PS: I must say the SMS-200 Ultra Neo is a beast. It's incredible how it changed the sound. I love it. Now working flawlessly, with the U16 and the R8 the sound is unbelievable!  I've heard systems costing 5 to 10 times and they don't sound as good as mine. The SMS-200 + U16 + R8 are a incredible combo!


----------



## ProLoL (Oct 3, 2019)

PS: the I2S is simply better than coax even though I cant use 44khz at the moment.


----------



## ProLoL

Do you guys use wck or s/p out? s/p out seems to open up the highs a bit for me.


----------



## soundlogic

Hello; I just received my C16 today. Can any C16 owners elaborate on the sonic differences between Vivid and Gentle modes? Not much info out there except that Vivid is recommended .
Thanks


----------



## Criable

Anyone get to try u16 firmware 1.77 already?


----------



## flyingpig (Oct 20, 2019)

For those who are interested,  simply adding the code highlighted in red below into linux kernel  audio/usb/quirks.c

Linux kernel with this update will enable native dsd for U16. Tested and working perfectly on 1.61nfb all supported DSD 44.1k/48k based both OK. (even though U16 display will only show 44.1k based frequency number). On 1.61 it won't work properly.

Can somebody take time to merge this into linux mainline?


case USB_ID(0x22d9, 0x0461): /* OPPO UDP-205 */
    case USB_ID(0x2522, 0x0012): /* LH Labs VI DAC Infinity */
    case USB_ID(0x2772, 0x0230): /* Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital */
_*case USB_ID(0x292b, 0xc4b3): /* Gustard U16/X26 USB Interface */*_
        if (fp->altsetting == 2)
            return SNDRV_PCM_FMTBIT_DSD_U32_BE;
        break;


----------



## ProLoL

Criable said:


> Anyone get to try u16 firmware 1.77 already?



Yea, I think it's sounds the best so far.


----------



## anroj

ProLoL said:


> Yea, I think it's sounds the best so far.


I have not tried it. Is it available on the Shenzhen Audio website?


----------



## ProLoL

No it isn't. Someone linked the files on page 91.


----------



## MarkR7

I don't see it on the download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/ site...


----------



## anroj

Thank you. I will go back and download now.


----------



## wwmhf

Criable said:


> Anyone get to try u16 firmware 1.77 already?



I am using firmware 1.77 satisfactorily.


----------



## roni44

ProLoL said:


> Yea, I think it's sounds the best so far.



I think 1.77 is YMMV, Gustard actually said while 1.77 has addressed some bugs, due to sound quality issue, 1.77 will not be an official release.


----------



## ProLoL (Oct 23, 2019)

roni44 said:


> I think 1.77 is YMMV, Gustard actually said while 1.77 has addressed some bugs, due to sound quality issue, 1.77 will not be an official release.



That's true, YMMV..
So far no clicks and pops and everything seems alright so I'm staying with it.

PS: the 1.77 has reversed left and right channels on two different occasions, back to main firmware.


----------



## Energy

Does anyone know how the U16 compares to an upgrade/modded SU-1 or stock SU-6?


----------



## henkeman

It sounds significantly better than my  SU-1 (which is modded with oscon caps, crystek 957 clocks and Hynes SR4 for 5V power)


----------



## Baten

Then of course: SU-6 VS U16


----------



## Energy (Oct 23, 2019)

I am deciding between the two.

When attaching a master clock option to the Guastard U16, does it take that new sine wave signal for all of it’s clocking operations or does it still rely on the Accusilicon?

It seems like both the U16 and SU-6 use FPGA and PLL for clocking purposes. But one has a master clock option while the other has a temperature controlled monitoring system. It’s a tough choice.


----------



## ProLoL

I heard the U16 can't bypass the internal clock although you use external clock.


----------



## Energy

Actually I read it a little different. Correct me if I'm wrong.

"_To ensure the highest quality digital audio signals and the best clock jitter performance, the U16 uses up to three FPGAs to implement USB audio interface clock management and the audio clock frequency synthesizers in the external 10M clock circuit."_

*Gustard uses three CME-HR FPGA's in total. *
- (1) to synthesize a 24MHz clock for the USB input
- (2) to synthesize 44.1KHz and 48KHz base frequencies

_"In the core circuit of the USB audio interface, an FPGA is used to implement the USB audio interface IC running in the Slave mode.That is, the USB audio interface IC receives the audio clock signal generated by the clock management FPGA and outputs only the digital audio data signal, thereby minimizing the digital signal interference introduced during the USB transmission process"_

*- USB audio interface receives audio clock signal from FPGA and outputs only the digital audio data signal thus minimizing it's own self clocking step*

_"The U16 has an external 10M clock input*, and the user can choose to access an external high-quality 10M clock reference source to further improve the sound quality.
* For security reasons, U16 does not automatically switch the clock source after accessing the external 10M clock. You must manually select the internal and external clock sources.
The audio clock synthesis circuit in the external 10M clock circuit uses two FPGAs corresponding to the audio main clock frequency synthesizer of the 44.1KHz and 48KHz base frequencies.
This design, on the one hand, avoids the crosstalk of the internal wiring of the FPGA; on the other hand, it also uses the relevant resources in the FPGA chip as efficiently as possible.
The frequency accuracy and jitter performance of the final synthesized audio main clock signal of this circuit have reached the limit performance level of the Current design"_

*Gustard U16 accepts external 10MHz reference clock signal.*
- Internal and External clock operations must be manually selected
- Normally the two CME-HR FPGA's would take the ACCUSILICON 49.1520M and 45.1584M as a reference point to synthesize 44.1KHz and 48KHz base frequencies, but once an external clock is connected and manually selected, all three CME-HR FPGA's will use the 10MHz reference signal as the new reference point to synthesize the 24MHz, 44.1KHz, and 48KHz clock frequencies.

In short, I am pretty sure an external clock bypasses the internal clocks. With that said, this shows the technological advancements of Gustard U16 over Singxer SU-6 when it comes to offering an external clock option and properly implementing it. The only draw back is having to manually set it.

Aside from that, both the Gustard U16 and Singxer SU-6 have three things in common:
1. Reliant on femtosecond clock (ACCUSILICON & CRYSTEK) for clock synthesizing using PLL
2. FPGA implementation removes unnecessary isolation chip that was causing additional jitter at the I²S output.
3. Built-In FIFO is used for audio processing of buffered data before the output for higher bit-rate support

Differences:
1. External clock option
2. Power Supplies (Regular vs Super-capacitor)
3. Temperature Controlled Clock Monitoring System

*Consensus: *Although I am generalizing the details, the two have similar functions yet use different circuitry to achieve each their own. From the looks of it, the USB input on the SU-6 looks a little more advanced in terms of noise isolation but if one were to use an ISOREGEN or tX-USBultra before the unit, it may not matter. The power rails are clearly a difference with the SU-6 being a little more ahead. As for clock and synthesizer implementations, CRYSTEK is only a few femtosecond less than the ACCUSILICON. How much jitter these synthesizer chips produce between the two brands should be more important than the oscillators themselves. All in all, in order to know which sounds better we'll have to take their overall build into consideration. I am going to get myself both units and compare.

All I know is that the Gustard U16 and C16 together looks like a good deal. It would be an even better deal if they had a PLL audio clock synthesizer module that they sell that could be used in other clock areas of the digital chain that could connect to the C16. Sadly there isn't one, so one would have to rely on the more expensive SOtM sCLK-EX.


----------



## FredA

I am betting on this new comer, that will be released soon:

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/DI20/DI20EN.htm


----------



## zeid2

Energy said:


> Actually I read it a little different. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> "_To ensure the highest quality digital audio signals and the best clock jitter performance, the U16 uses up to three FPGAs to implement USB audio interface clock management and the audio clock frequency synthesizers in the external 10M clock circuit."_
> 
> ...





Energy said:


> Actually I read it a little different. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> "_To ensure the highest quality digital audio signals and the best clock jitter performance, the U16 uses up to three FPGAs to implement USB audio interface clock management and the audio clock frequency synthesizers in the external 10M clock circuit."_
> 
> ...


----------



## zeid2

I have a combination of WD ext. HDD - Bryston BDP-1 - SOtM sCLK-EX - Gustard U16 (FW 1.4)/Gustard C16 - XLR - Auralic Vega - Auralic Taurus II - Sennheiser HD800/Focal Clear/Audeze LCD-X/Audeze LCD 3. I think I can hear the Vega for the first time with its full potential. The sound with all of the headphones is excellent. The contribution of the C16 is not negligible, on the contrary.


----------



## Energy (Oct 25, 2019)

Thanks for the share @zeid2

_Do you feel like the Gustard C16 made a significant difference to your system? 

Are you currently connecting it to your Gustard U16 and sCLK-EX board?_

SC-Cut OCXO’s are better than femtosecond SPXO’s for sure however I didn’t know they were much better than the synthesizers that are on the sCLK-EX. The last time I checked their phase noise measurements they were pretty good. I believe even better than Crystek and Accusilicon.

One thing you should note is that the Gustard C16 outputs a 10MHz square wave. One of SOtM’s preferences is that they like using pure analog sine waves. Having said that, the sCLK-EX might perform better if it was fed that waveform. Certain chips might be optimized to receive a sine wave. Just food for thought.

The sCLK-EX’s synthesizers already performs pretty well. Having a Gustard C16 should help a little more with the phase noise but as previously mentioned, if the cable is too long or not good quality, I wouldn’t be surprised if they both sound the same due to signal loss increasing phase noise. From my experience I have found that Pasternack RG400 is the best coaxial cable for outside clock runs (SMB Male to SMA Female) and RG178 is the best for inside runs to the clock (SMA Male to u.FL [or MCX])


----------



## zeid2

Energy said:


> Thanks for the share @zeid2
> 
> _Do you feel like the Gustard C16 made a significant difference to your system?
> 
> ...


----------



## Baten

why quote a message and say nothing :s


----------



## zeid2

Energy, I am not an expert, I judge only subjectively, by my ears. As for the C16, it brought audible improvement to the U16 (transparency, definition, see-through quality of the sound), I am not that much sure about the SOtM tX-USBUltra. But I use it for both. I have another rig (Fidata NAS - SOtM sMS-200Ultra - SOtM tX-USBUltra - USB input of Denafrips Terminator - KGSS Blue Hawaii/KGSS Carbon - various Stax earspeakers). In this case the USB input of the Terminator (recent DSP board, recent firmware) beats its I2S input fed from Gustard U16/C16 combination by a significant margin. It is actually the best sound I have ever had. I have never heard an SU-6 and do not know how it compares to the U16. I have only the SU-1 which seems clearly inferior to the U16, even without the C16. I use decent China sourced cables for connecting the U16 to the C16, no expensive audio boutique.


----------



## PLGA

Hello guys
I connected a cheap external OCXO feed with a budget chinese PSU to my Gustard U16 wich then feeds my Audio-gd R8 DAC with an I2S signal. 
Well, it’s not a day and night difference, I guess as the USB signal is already very good from my SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo. 
Nevertheless, eventhough I've had to play a few different songs to be sure, there's more realism with the external OCXO on the U16.
I would describe it as better separation, improved dinamics and stronger bass. 
Again, not a day and night difference, but worth the expende considering the relatively low cost. 
Just my two cents.


----------



## FredA

PLGA said:


> Hello guys
> I connected a cheap external OCXO feed with a budget chinese PSU to my Gustard U16 wich then feeds my Audio-gd R8 DAC with an I2S signal.
> Well, it’s not a day and night difference, I guess as the USB signal is already very good from my SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo.
> Nevertheless, eventhough I've had to play a few different songs to be sure, there's more realism with the external OCXO on the U16.
> ...


Same here. But it is a difference i can appreciate.


----------



## PLGA

FredA said:


> Same here. But it is a difference i can appreciate.





FredA said:


> Same here. But it is a difference i can appreciate.



Yes. Its worthwile. I agree.


----------



## roni44

try to go back listening without OCXO, I know I can't.


----------



## motberg

I did not yet try a direct comparison, but my very subjective impressions is that the GPS 10M ocxo offered a more profound difference than the stand alone ocxo. This is perhaps due to a visual bias as a reeult of viewing all those zeros line up on the display... I will try do a direct comparison in the near future and report here....


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Gave the 10Mhz clock with U16 a shot last month, feeding my AudioGD R7HE via HDMI I2S. 

Sounded fine... While the U16 worked. One reboot later and it was static galore again. Back to Singxer SU-6. Will be buying AudioGD's new DI20HE, so the U16 will soon see the rubbish bin.


----------



## FredA

UsoppNoKami said:


> Gave the 10Mhz clock with U16 a shot last month, feeding my AudioGD R7HE via HDMI I2S.
> 
> Sounded fine... While the U16 worked. One reboot later and it was static galore again. Back to Singxer SU-6. Will be buying AudioGD's new DI20HE, so the U16 will soon see the rubbish bin.


Mine too! Static is occuring daily. It is driving me crazy.


----------



## PLGA

UsoppNoKami said:


> Gave the 10Mhz clock with U16 a shot last month, feeding my AudioGD R7HE via HDMI I2S.
> 
> Sounded fine... While the U16 worked. One reboot later and it was static galore again. Back to Singxer SU-6. Will be buying AudioGD's new DI20HE, so the U16 will soon see the rubbish bin.



I have an OCXO similar to yours since a week ago and I dont have static on my U16 on PCM 44.1.  I hope it will keep running this way!

After months, I finally figure out how to make the U16 run flawlessly, as I said with PCM 44.1, and it sound GREAT. If it continues this way, for me its a great piece of gear for the price as I dont care about hi res PCM, MQA or DSD files, for the moment. I couldnt make it work with hi res files.

Nevertheless, I anxious about your impressions on the AudioGD's new DI20HE or DI20!!!


----------



## DACLadder (Oct 31, 2019)

Has any one tried the R7, R7-HE 2020 models with Ext 10M clocking + U16 10M clock?


----------



## UsoppNoKami

PLGA said:


> I have an OCXO similar to yours since a week ago and I dont have static on my U16 on PCM 44.1.  I hope it will keep running this way!
> 
> After months, I finally figure out how to make the U16 run flawlessly, as I said with PCM 44.1, and it sound GREAT. If it continues this way, for me its a great piece of gear for the price as I dont care about hi res PCM, MQA or DSD files, for the moment. I couldnt make it work with hi res files.
> 
> Nevertheless, I anxious about your impressions on the AudioGD's new DI20HE or DI20!!!



We should all stop making excuses for Gustard, they have had half a year to fix the damn U16. Didn't pay good money for it to only play and sound good on one random/working sample rate based on its fickle electronic mood.  

We shall see, hopeful the DI20-HE will be good. If not, back to the SU-6 it is. Time will tell


----------



## wwmhf

I doubt Gustard has a tech team or resource for such a subtle/tricky technical issue. Gustard is a tiny business/shop.


----------



## jimmychan

I know they outsource the manufacturing to some other company.


----------



## ProLoL (Nov 1, 2019)

UsoppNoKami said:


> Gave the 10Mhz clock with U16 a shot last month, feeding my AudioGD R7HE via HDMI I2S.
> 
> Sounded fine... While the U16 worked. One reboot later and it was static galore again. Back to Singxer SU-6. Will be buying AudioGD's new DI20HE, so the U16 will soon see the rubbish bin.



What psu were you using for it? a 15v 1.5a?


----------



## motberg

On one system I have a Gustard U16 feeding a Gustard A20H DAC via i2s... both bought new within the past couple months..
This results to super loud (damage-to-speakers type level) pops while playing native or resampled DSD...

You would assume they would be able to get this correct between 2 of their own devices... but.. no...


----------



## ProLoL

motberg said:


> On one system I have a Gustard U16 feeding a Gustard A20H DAC via i2s... both bought new within the past couple months..
> This results to super loud (damage-to-speakers type level) pops while playing native or resampled DSD...
> 
> You would assume they would be able to get this correct between 2 of their own devices... but.. no...



Yea wish I could use the i2s without any pops.. settled with a coax, so far so good.
I know another guy that uses the a20h with the u16, prefers using aes over i2s.


----------



## PLGA

ProLoL said:


> What psu were you using for it? a 15v 1.5a?



I use a chinese ebay 12V 3A Power Supply to feed one OCXO pretty similar to the one on that picture and my WiFi modem.


----------



## PLGA

motberg said:


> On one system I have a Gustard U16 feeding a Gustard A20H DAC via i2s... both bought new within the past couple months..
> This results to super loud (damage-to-speakers type level) pops while playing native or resampled DSD...
> 
> You would assume they would be able to get this correct between 2 of their own devices... but.. no...



I feed my U16 with a SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo via USB cable and from the U16 to my Audio-gd R8 DAC via I2S with out ANY problem at all with PCM flac 44.1 files. 

I dont need any more because I stream all of my music from Tidal Hi Fi. The U16 doesnt work well with MQA, it makes random noise, but I dont care about MQA, for me the quality of Tidal Hi-Fi its more than enough. 

V3A firmware on my R8 and 1.6 NFB on my Gustard, just in case someone has similar set up and streams PCM 44.1 files.


----------



## ProLoL

PLGA said:


> I use a chinese ebay 12V 3A Power Supply to feed one OCXO pretty similar to the one on that picture and my WiFi modem.



I accidently quoted you instead of UsoppNoKami. I was looking to purchase the same 10m clock, contacted the seller and he says that this one requires atleast 15v 1.5a.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

ProLoL said:


> I accidently quoted you instead of UsoppNoKami. I was looking to purchase the same 10m clock, contacted the seller and he says that this one requires atleast 15v 1.5a.



Spec sheet is here, 12V is fine.


----------



## PLGA

ProLoL said:


> I accidently quoted you instead of UsoppNoKami. I was looking to purchase the same 10m clock, contacted the seller and he says that this one requires atleast 15v 1.5a.



I've said my OCXO is similar to the one on the picture, not the same. 

You have to follow your seller's advice. What I meant was that any budget chinese LPS can feed it, just be sure on the voltage and amperes.


----------



## Energy (Nov 1, 2019)

zeid2 said:


> Energy, I am not an expert, I judge only subjectively, by my ears. As for the C16, it brought audible improvement to the U16 (transparency, definition, see-through quality of the sound), I am not that much sure about the SOtM tX-USBUltra. But I use it for both. I have another rig (Fidata NAS - SOtM sMS-200Ultra - SOtM tX-USBUltra - USB input of Denafrips Terminator - KGSS Blue Hawaii/KGSS Carbon - various Stax earspeakers). In this case the USB input of the Terminator (recent DSP board, recent firmware) beats its I2S input fed from Gustard U16/C16 combination by a significant margin. It is actually the best sound I have ever had. I have never heard an SU-6 and do not know how it compares to the U16. I have only the SU-1 which seems clearly inferior to the U16, even without the C16. I use decent China sourced cables for connecting the U16 to the C16, no expensive audio boutique.



I can concur that the Denafrips Terminator’s USB input sounds better than any LVDS input. My best guess is that I²S native signals are more prone to signal degradation as it was originally created for no longer than PCB to PCB connections. Having a lengthy signal from a DDC’s output through an HDMI cable (0.3M at best) and additional PCB traces like within Terminator, then reaching the DSP board to be routed to the D/A converter is quite the process. This is why USB is better. It is less sensitive and once reaching the DAC, it goes through the DSP board for I²S conversion and relies on a similar FIFO buffer and FPGA concept. The difference here is the IC’s and oscillators (Crystek CCHD-957) are nearby so the I²S signal reaches the D/A converter chip immediately. So even if the clocks aren’t temperature monitored or oven controlled like in the Singxer SU-6, the shorter signal path after I²S makes the most difference. Imagine a SU-6 sitting right before the R2R ladder. Anyway that’s my best idea of why. It’s very interesting to see USB input’s coming such a long way now. I know the new Holo Audio Spring 2’s USB input and reliability on a nearby femtosecond clock for conversion is also doing the same. Which one does it better has a lot to do with how well the algorithm for the FPGA is done.

Sadly I wish they included a master clock option in the SU-6 and Denafrips Terminator. Unfortunately it’s not as easy as just soldering off the clocks and throwing in a u.FL (or MCX) as it requires the FPGA to be recoded to accept the 10MHz signal. Using a clock synthesizer like SOtM sCLK-EX to synthesize 49.1520M and 45.1584M doesn’t sound like getting the best bang for your buck neither. The idea of synthesizing a clock just for it to be used a a reference and re-synthesized (by the FPGA) sounds iffy to me. And to make the matter worse that would require two different outputs from the sCLK-EX clock module unless the select pin (SEL0) is used. Personally I wouldn’t know where to wire that pin to otherwise I would configure one output to have both 49.1520M and 45.1584M so they could be switchable, leaving more outputs leftover to be used in other places.

@zeid2 A little off topic but I was planning on changing the 24MHz clock on the DSP board to a Crystek CCHD-575 24MHz. They sell them on Mouser.com now but won’t be available until November. Since the original clock is smaller it will require a converter board. I’ve done this before on a Singxer SU-1 for it’s USB Input XMOS which relies on another small 24MHz oscillator. I could always help you out.


----------



## ProLoL (Nov 1, 2019)

Just ordered a 10m with ifi Ipower.

By the way, anyone knows why I can't 44/16 via i2s? I get only static noise from one channel on anything below 96/24.


----------



## motberg

ProLoL said:


> Just ordered a 10m with ifi Ipower.
> 
> By the way, anyone knows why I can't 44/16 via i2s? I get only static noise from one channel on anything below 96/24.



I had the exact same problem with my Audio-GD R1 DAC, had to upsample everything to 384k, this sounded good but limited my playback software options.
My Audio-GD NOS7 works at 44/16 and all PCM rates, no problem
My Gustard A20H works OK with all PCM rates, serious pops with DSD (I hope I can fix this...)
My Topping D70 is OK with PCM (but that DAC sounds anemic generally with no dynamics.. will be sold)
all the above tested with i2s, 0.3M Wireworld Starlight cables.

Regarding a DAC USB input vs. i2s DDC, there were some comments years ago that the USB conversion is noisy and is benefited performed in a separate box. 
In every case I tried, and my guess 80% of the comments I have read online up to now, well implemented i2s was preferred over the DAC USB  .
The only exception I have first hand knowledge was my isolated Amanero USB input on the Audio-GD R1 was equal or sideways to a power-modded SU-1 via i2s.
So it seems designers are making good progress on the native USB implementations. 
From what I am reading the Terminator is one of the few which have exceptional native USB, I am not sure, but seems it is Amanero based which would be interesting as Audio-GD is having some success with their isolated Amanero implementation also.


----------



## wwmhf

I am wondering how the external 10Mhz clock works with the digital input from the coax of a CD player. After a brief listening, I think U16 does not use the external clock when digital signal is from coax cable. Please correct me if my thinking is incorrect.


----------



## Energy

motberg said:


> Regarding a DAC USB input vs. i2s DDC, there were some comments years ago that the USB conversion is noisy and is benefited performed in a separate box.
> In every case I tried, and my guess 80% of the comments I have read online up to now, well implemented i2s was preferred over the DAC USB. The only exception I have first hand knowledge was my isolated Amanero USB input on the Audio-GD R1 was equal or sideways to a power-modded SU-1 via i2s.
> So it seems designers are making good progress on the native USB implementations.
> From what I am reading the Terminator is one of the few which have exceptional native USB, I am not sure, but seems it is Amanero based which would be interesting as Audio-GD is having some success with their isolated Amanero implementation also.



New USB implementations are now better isolated, features lower phase noise clocks, and have their I²S length much shorter than using a separate box solution. Thus a decent implemented USB can sound just as good as a slightly better implemented DDC (USB to I²S). 



wwmhf said:


> I am wondering how the external 10Mhz clock works with the digital input from the coax of a CD player. After a brief listening, I think U16 does not use the external clock when digital signal is from coax cable. Please correct me if my thinking is incorrect.



CD player’s coaxial output’s music not input’s music. It isn’t a DAC as it works more like a turntable. The U16’s master clock option is an coaxial input that only takes 10MHz clock signals. They cannot be used with each other as one is to pass clock signals to use a superior clock for lower jitter in music playback while the other is passing music data in audio frequencies.


----------



## PeterCraig

I wonder how many otherwise great dacs out there end up on the dac junk heap because either the USB or SPDIF hardware/software can't be upgraded. Not many dacs have I2S implemented.

I'm grateful to any manufacturer who builds and supports gear that can be upgraded (and at a fair price).


----------



## motberg

Anyone have tips on how to get DSD to play, U16 i2s to Gustard DAC, without pops?
I have recently bought U16 i2s to A20H, sounds good on PCM, but native DSD and HQPlayer conversion results at loud pops at end of file playback.


----------



## sumpao

What is the stable firmware here


----------



## frizzup

Hi sumpao,

I used 1.61 PSA with I2S (HDMI Output). All sample rate rates work fine.

Frizzup


----------



## anroj

sumpao said:


> What is the stable firmware here


I use 1.61 NFB with IIS for all sample rates up to DSD512. I get an occasional pop at the highest DSD rates but the SQ is worth it.


----------



## RRM1 (Mar 6, 2020)

I completed my Gustard stack 8 days ago to include H 20 (Sparkos labs SS3602) upgrade, X 26, U 16, and finally the,C 16 in that order. With the short time I have been able to enjoy it completed I am going to call this God tier sound. I did have some problems with the I2S connectivity (drops outs and pops) after obtaining the U 16 and prior to the purchases of the C 16. I was able to correct it up to this point by replacing the USB cable to a random one that came with something and placing it in a different socket on the computer. I would hope the socket was the problem and not the Audio Quest cable. I only have 8 actual DSD albums and have experienced no difficulty yet in up-sampling them 8x in JRiver. However, If I attempt to convert FLAC files to DSD with Maximum oversampling than it is no bueno to say the least. Also upsampling 16 or 24 bit flac files has not proven to be an issue as long as I do not convert them. Eventually I will reinstall the AQ USB cable once I determine that it was not the problem. I cannot believe that the external USB interface and clock make such an other worldly difference. I hope it is just an issue with USB connections to the motherboard but my drop outs have been gone for over a month now which is why I went all in on the stack.

I would like to thank the members of this forum for the help and guidance  they have provided me as an observer. Although it is early in the process I can say sounds great on Sennheiser HD 600,650,700,& 800s. Fostex TRP 50(moded)& 60's XX00 Purple Heart, TH 900's And Focal Elex, & Clears. Not ready to make a determination on Hi Fiman yet. Surprisingly the greatest improvement came form the HD 700's but this is liable to change as the C 16 has under 200 hours on it so far. One last thing I do cycle all of this equipment off every day except the clock. Not sure if I will keep it on always or not going to let it burn at least another week first. And I would only condenser it due to the fact it takes 15 mins to cycle itself to a state of readiness. But with that said it takes much longer of a class "A" amp to come up to temp. and sound it's beast. Very excited to live with this set up for years to come. Again, thanks to all of you for your posts it helped me more than I can express.


----------



## PLGA

Hello guys
Sometimes (not always), after a couple of hours, or more, my system's image gets unbalanced (the center phantom imagen moves to the right). 
As I have wierd image issues with firmware 1.77 and inverted channels with other fw, I think the U16 must be the problem. 
My theory is that when it gets pretty warm (mine is located in a not much ventilated location), something doesnt work well inside of it and the image gets affected.
Did anyone of you had a similar experience?
Mine its connected to an external OCXO and its fed by an SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo, so I dont think these are the problem.


----------



## RRM1

My only problems were with dropouts and faint pops after the U16 ran for about an hour. The dropouts occurred on an exact 30 second interval while running red book rips and would increase in frequency with higher bit rates. By cycling the unit off and then on it would go another 45 mins. to an hour before it would repeat.I considered that it could be a heat issue and moved it to an isolated location but that did not help. I am running FW 1.61my. I think I got lucky when moving it back I changed the USB cable and the socket where it was plugged to my PC and I have not had a problem since. I am even currently running it on top of my class A H20 and that is not affecting the sound it has been there for 9 days so far. I guess the truth of the U16 is that it is a finicky biooootch but the tweaking with it is well worth it if you get it to work.


----------



## PLGA

Yes, I managed to make it work flawlessly with PCM 44.1, but not with another formats or sample rates. 

It sounds superb with external OCXO, but a couple of time I felt the soundstage considerably moved to the right channel. I blame it on the U16 because as soon as I run Netflix with the TV, via Toslink/optical  cable, through the R8 DAC, the soundstage gets corrected.

The U16 is really a mistery sometimes.


----------



## JaMo

PLGA said:


> As I have wierd image issues with firmware 1.77 and inverted channels with other fw, I think the U16 must be the problem.



Don't know with You but for me the 1.4 PSA- and the 1.61NFB-firmwares worked the best. -Have You tried those ?


----------



## PLGA

JaMo said:


> Don't know with You but for me the 1.4 PSA- and the 1.61NFB-firmwares worked the best. -Have You tried those ?



Yes, I've tried both. I use today 1.61NFB with PS Audio setting on the U16.


----------



## RRM1

PLGA said:


> Yes, I've tried both. I use today 1.61NFB with PS Audio setting on the U16.



Seems that it is the the I2S implantation that is the problem with it. But that is also why most people consider it. Probably a stupid question but did you throw on a different HDMI cable to see if that may correct it.


----------



## PLGA (Nov 26, 2019)

RRM1 said:


> Seems that it is the the I2S implantation that is the problem with it. But that is also why most people consider it. Probably a stupid question but did you throw on a different HDMI cable to see if that may correct it.



I havent tried another HDMI cable because it works perfecty 99% of the time, so it shouldnt be a cable problem because it works fine or it doesnt.

I really believe its a U16 issue, may be related with firmware or something working not 100% perfectly when it gets pretty warm. Here is summer and I have a valve amp, so after a while, if I dont turn on the air conditioning, the room gets a little warmer than regular.

Nevertheless, I dont worry much about this unbalance because it happens almost never and Im now considering changing it to the new Audio-GD DI-20 wich is a more expensive, but it seems to be much better.


----------



## ProLoL

The problem lays on the firmware.. can't use anything below 96/16 but with the earlier nfb 1.61 version I could use 48/16 after an hour of playback.. weird.
Hope they'll release a version on which I could use 44/16 via i2s already.


----------



## PLGA

ProLoL said:


> The problem lays on the firmware.. can't use anything below 96/16 but with the earlier nfb 1.61 version I could use 48/16 after an hour of playback.. weird.
> Hope they'll release a version on which I could use 44/16 via i2s already.



With 1.61 NFB fw, I use PCM 44.1/16 with no problem at all, with the exception of the unbalance once a while (very unusually).

I stream Tidal on my listening setions with the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo feeding the U16 and then via I2S (HDMI) to my R8 DAC.


----------



## RRM1 (Nov 27, 2019)

PLGA said:


> I havent tried another HDMI cable because it works perfecty 99% of the time, so it shouldnt be a cable problem because it works fine or it doesnt.
> 
> I really believe its a U16 issue, may be related with firmware or something working not 100% perfectly when it gets pretty warm. Here is summer and I have a valve amp, so after a while, if I dont turn on the air conditioning, the room gets a little warmer than regular.
> 
> Nevertheless, I dont worry much about this unbalance because it happens almost never and Im now considering changing it to the new Audio-GD DI-20 wich is a more expensive, but it seems to be much better.



DI-20 is currently %5 off @ Audio GD


----------



## PLGA

RRM1 said:


> DI-20 is currently %5 off @ Audio GD



Yes, I know... so tempting!!!


----------



## soundlogic

Regarding all the customer complaints of glitches with the U16... I need to humbly and proudly note that my unit has been flawless! I have used it for just a little over its initial release. it came factory loaded with PSA 1.4 FW. Since I have a PS Audio Directstream DAC, and I use exclusively the HDMI out from the U16, it has worked as advertised on all files and sizes. USB out from my Aries streamer, originally 1st gen. Aries, and now Aries G2 , feeds the Gustard. The ONLY thing I have found bothersome is that the Gustard causes the “pre-emphasis flag” to become enacted on the Directstream, but as a work around, I just covered the pin on the HDMI cable that causes it, and all is good. Sonics with the U16 definitely trumped my Kitsune’ modified SU1 by a large degree. Although with the inclusion of FPGA upgrades, the Audio-GD DI-20 looks worth investigating.


----------



## Baten (Nov 27, 2019)

Someone measured U16. Not Amir but a member on ASR that purchased the latest and greatest AP analyser. He will soon also measure new model holo spring and audio-gd gear. I personally don't think he has any bias against brands etc cause he is from China himself.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ts-of-gustard-u16-usb-digital-interface.9997/

He is not that optimistic about the device. Maybe it performs better with external clock?


----------



## ProLoL

Baten said:


> Someone measured U16. Not Amir but a member on ASR that purchased the latest and greatest AP analyser. He will soon also measure new model holo spring and audio-gd gear. I personally don't think he has any bias against brands etc cause he is from China himself.
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ts-of-gustard-u16-usb-digital-interface.9997/
> 
> He is not that optimistic about the device. Maybe it performs better with external clock?



Even without OCXO, it takes every dac to the next level.


----------



## PLGA

Well, to me, I would trust my ears. I wouldnt care about measurements.

In my system, the U16 sounds terrific alone and even better with an external OCXO. 

I found the way to make it work, almost 100% of the times, perfectly with PCM 44.1/16 wich is what I need. It doesnt work with higher PCM rates or DSD, but I dont really care much about it.

I have a 300B valve power amp wich has I think about 1% of THD and it sounds MUCH better (to me) than a class D power amp with MUCH less distortion on paper. I have the class D amp on a case.

If I decide to change the U16 with the DI-20 it will be based on other trusted audiophiles experiences and not measurements. In some forums some people published supposedly bad measurements of Audio-GD DACs and must of us know that they sound incredible and are a real bargain in the audiophile market.


----------



## motberg

I have 2 U16's - one to an Audio-GD DAC and one to a Gustard DAC.. both working fine via i2s (got some DSD pops with the Gustard DAC though).
The Gustard sounds better than both the TANLY and a modded SU-1 that I had, and both those were double the price... so I would not think it is throwing money away using a U16.

I recently bought 3 DAC's reviewed at that site - the Topping D50 (nice vocals but strange tonality of other stuff - plastic sounding guitars, strange DI-like bass guitar, cymbals lacking depth) and Topping D70 (good tone but no dynamics). The Gustard A20A is pretty good though - even the built in balanced preamp not too bad, but I am using the SE outputs and a Lightspeed passive pre with all silver litz to the amp - very very nice AK4497 implementation with natural tonality and normal dynamics.


----------



## Baten

PLGA said:


> Well, to me, I would trust my ears. I wouldnt care about measurements.
> 
> In my system, the U16 sounds terrific alone and even better with an external OCXO.
> 
> I found the way to make it work, almost 100% of the times, perfectly with PCM 44.1/16 wich is what I need. It doesnt work with higher PCM rates or DSD, but I dont really care much about it.



I'm sure the U16 is great  just wanted to share those measurements, I know there's no 1:1 relation to actual sound but it still is valuable to see any defects or faults.

Stock, the U16 does not have the greatest jitter in picosecond measurement. With many devices claiming 'femto' performance, it does seem like the Gustard is a little lacking to me. But I've not heard it, I'm using a modded Singxer SU-1 myself... which also measured BAD at ASR, LOL. sounds fine.


----------



## PLGA

Baten said:


> I'm sure the U16 is great  just wanted to share those measurements, I know there's no 1:1 relation to actual sound but it still is valuable to see any defects or faults.
> 
> Stock, the U16 does not have the greatest jitter in picosecond measurement. With many devices claiming 'femto' performance, it does seem like the Gustard is a little lacking to me. But I've not heard it, I'm using a modded Singxer SU-1 myself... which also measured BAD at ASR, LOL. sounds fine.



Yes, sure. Thank you for the information.

Do you have the U16 or are you planning on buying one?   I guess an Audio-GD Di-20 would be a safer bet.


----------



## Baten

PLGA said:


> Do you have the U16 or are you planning on buying one?   I guess an Audio-GD Di-20 would be a safer bet.



Not sure yet. I like my SU-1 so was thinking of going to SU-6 eventually, but haven't made up my mind yet.

U16 looked good too, but hearing it is bug-free on 44Khz but can have problems at other rates, that's not assuring.


----------



## PLGA

Baten said:


> Not sure yet. I like my SU-1 so was thinking of going to SU-6 eventually, but haven't made up my mind yet.
> 
> U16 looked good too, but hearing it is bug-free on 44Khz but can have problems at other rates, that's not assuring.



Yes, I guess the U16 is not the safest bet. I've got mine working flawlessly after some time trying different firmwares and configurations on my R8 DAC. It's worth to mention that mine a VERY few times provides an unbalanced soundstage, but I don't care as it happens exceptionally.

Instead of the SU-6, wich some other head-fi members say it doesnt sound better than the U16, I would look for information on the Audio-GD DI-20, wich some members say it sounds considerably better than the U16 and the price si similar to the SU-6, as I understand.

The thread is:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...atched_thread_reply_messagetext#post-15330510


----------



## motberg

The external 10M clock input is a nice feature... a few days ago I was listening to the U16/A20H source and noticed something was off... I figured something was not plugged into the mains regenerator, or maybe just a bad day for subjective listening...

Then I remembered the 10M clock was not engaged on the U16 (I have the display blocked so the room is dark... ) and that was the problem.
A stock U16 will probably sound different from a modded well-powered SU-1, but if you like the SU-1 sound then it may take some kind of well-powered 10M OCXO to get the U16 to be preferable (if you have luck with the sample rates problem..)

There should be some cheap U16's on the used market soon due to the Di-20 release, maybe worth a try to folks on the fence - add the cheap eBay OCXO and LPS if you like, and if not a substantial improvement can flip the  U16 and save the OCXO stuff for a Di-20.


----------



## darren700

motberg said:


> The external 10M clock input is a nice feature... a few days ago I was listening to the U16/A20H source and noticed something was off... I figured something was not plugged into the mains regenerator, or maybe just a bad day for subjective listening...
> 
> Then I remembered the 10M clock was not engaged on the U16 (I have the display blocked so the room is dark... ) and that was the problem.
> A stock U16 will probably sound different from a modded well-powered SU-1, but if you like the SU-1 sound then it may take some kind of well-powered 10M OCXO to get the U16 to be preferable (if you have luck with the sample rates problem..)
> ...



I upgraded my U16 to the Audio-GD DI-20 and have been quite happy.

I also have my U16 up for sale if anyone is interested. I am located in Canada but will consider shipping else-ware.
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649570574-gustard-u16-ddc/


----------



## ProLoL (Dec 1, 2019)

The OCXO takes my R2R11 into a different level.. stock U16 feels like it drives in 100mph, with the external OXCO, it feels the music flows in 200mph.

The level of realism is unbelievable.. I was missing a dimension of which I wasn't aware of.


----------



## BrainFood

ProLoL said:


> The OCXO takes my R2R11 into a different level.. stock U16 feels like it drives in 100mph, with the external OXCO, it feels the music flows in 200mph.
> 
> The level of realism is unbelievable.. I was missing a dimension of which I wasn't aware of.


 Hi. Could you link to the ocxo you purchased?


----------



## ProLoL (Dec 2, 2019)

Sure,
Using it in sine wave + Ifi Ipower.
Music flows effortlessly.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10MHz-OCXO-Frequency-Standard-Reference-2-CH-Sine-wave-1-CH-Square-wave/173448116014?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item286250372e:g:X3cAAOSw6AVbZCWt&enc=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&checksum=173448116014a70c76b042ff4812b93716f25c82568c&enc=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&checksum=173448116014a70c76b042ff4812b93716f25c82568c


----------



## baramzisyan

Okay, guys, when new u16 firmware were aviable?


----------



## wwmhf

Why? Any special needs for a new firmware?


----------



## luiluilui (Dec 17, 2019)

Hi all,

It seems U16 (out of the box) is not compatible with Sotm sms mini (Neo) I must downgrade 192/384 Khz files to 96 Khz in order to avoid crash.
I'm using the Gustard between Sotm/Roon and a Topping D70 Dac.

Any solution?


----------



## PLGA (Dec 17, 2019)

luiluilui said:


> Hi all,
> 
> It seems U16 (out of the box) is not compatible with Sotm sms mini (Neo) I must downgrade 192/384 Khz files to 96 Khz in order to avoid crash.
> I'm using the Gustard between Sotm/Roon and a Topping D70 Dac.
> ...



You should try a different firmwares and settings on the U16.

I have the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo with Audinirvana feeding the U16 and to make it work flawlessly, only on PCM 44.1, with my Audio-gd R8 DAC, I've had to set the DAC to Asynchronous mode from its front panel and the U16 was with 1.61 NFB firmware on PS Audio mode.

But, as you have a different set up, DAC and may be different digital formats, you have to try different firmwares and setting options on your U16. Good luck!


----------



## baramzisyan

wwmhf said:


> Why? Any special needs for a new firmware?


Of course we all need this, because firmware 1. 77 full of glitches.


----------



## MarkR7

I had a similar issue with an Innuos Zen mk3 server and the Gustard U16 as well.  The combo played flawlessly when I throttled everything down to 24/96 and lower in Roon, but I couldn't play anything above, 24/192 and on, without a clicking distortion sound during the song. Other than that, I love the AES/EBU output of U16 with an outboard 10MHz clock and linear supply.  It's really, really good!



luiluilui said:


> Hi all,
> 
> It seems U16 (out of the box) is not compatible with Sotm sms mini (Neo) I must downgrade 192/384 Khz files to 96 Khz in order to avoid crash.
> I'm using the Gustard between Sotm/Roon and a Topping D70 Dac.
> ...


----------



## Chopin75

MarkR7 said:


> I had a similar issue with an Innuos Zen mk3 server and the Gustard U16 as well.  The combo played flawlessly when I throttled everything down to 24/96 and lower in Roon, but I couldn't play anything above, 24/192 and on, without a clicking distortion sound during the song. Other than that, I love the AES/EBU output of U16 with an outboard 10MHz clock and linear supply.  It's really, really good!


Are u using USB ? AES cannot do beyond 24/192


----------



## MarkR7

Correct, I capped the output to my DAC (an Audio Mirror Tubadour III) to 24/192 within Roon, to accomodate the AES/EBU input. I couldn't even play 24/192 through the Innuos / U16 combo at all and had to cap it at 24/96.  USB on the Innuos was fine up to my DAC's limit of 384k, no issues whatsoever.



Chopin75 said:


> Are u using USB ? AES cannot do beyond 24/192


----------



## luiluilui

MarkR7 said:


> I had a similar issue with an Innuos Zen mk3 server and the Gustard U16 as well.  The combo played flawlessly when I throttled everything down to 24/96 and lower in Roon, but I couldn't play anything above, 24/192 and on, without a clicking distortion sound during the song. Other than that, I love the AES/EBU output of U16 with an outboard 10MHz clock and linear supply.  It's really, really good!



I have updated firmware to 1.61 and problem solved.

https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GU16V1_61_NFB.rom


----------



## Chopin75 (Dec 22, 2019)

Sorry, error, posted on the wrong forum.


----------



## baramzisyan

luiluilui said:


> I have updated firmware to 1.61 and problem solved.
> 
> https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Gustard/GU16V1_61_NFB.rom


1.61 stable, but has some issues ang glitches.

Need new stable firmware in 2020.


----------



## strikertango55 (Feb 9, 2020)

For everyone experiencing pops, you have to mess with your bios settings and your cpu voltages and if you are using HQPlayer, mess with buffer settings. For me there there were more pops as the ms increased. 5ms got me no pops.

DPLL on the LKS effects a specific kind of static.

I have a
1950x Threadripper  -  No spread spectrum.4000Mhz.vcore 1.235. offset .15 level 1. smt disabled (16cores). SOC offset Lvl 1.
x399m Taichi HPET table off
16gb Ram its rated 3000 but i have it at 3400 and 1.38
1030gt video card so no offloading

the mobo has 2 ethernets and they are bridged

cisco 2960-8tc switch  -  I like the 100mbs on the sotm more than the 1000mbs and this only works with the switch. the computer side goes in the 1000 connection and then one of the 8 100mbs for the sotm

sotm sms200ultra neo with a sps500 - ipv4 100mbs
gustard u16 - 1.4LKS firmware
LKS mh-da004  -  i2s, fixed volume, autooff display, dll 10, usb module removed, XLR
then old classe amp+preamp and emerald physics 2.8's

KDE Neon but it works just as well with windows 10. i havent tested it as much with win10 though.
Roon Server with Roon controller on a android pad thing - fixed volume
HQplayer - 512DSD, 5ms Buffer, AMSDM7 512 + fs, multicore checked but no others, direct sdm checked. all volume is controlled by preamp,  poly-sinc-xtr-mp, 512x44.1k 

This setup took me about a year and a half to get perfect. A cool extra thing is that we were using morrow sp4 speaker cables, but changed to 10awg magnet wire with ends dipped in a solder pot and it sounds much much better. It is also a pain to work with and does not look very nice. Almost all off this stuff was figured out through trial and error. I have no clue why they work.

Hopefully this can help someone.


----------



## jimmychan

There is a upgrade alternative to the U16. A few people have sold the U16 and bought DI-20HE, including me.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-di-20.918123/


----------



## RRM1

jimmychan said:


> There is a upgrade alternative to the U16. A few people have sold the U16 and bought DI-20HE, including me.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-di-20.918123/



Hope that works out for you. U-16 working perfect for me so I am keeping it might even buy ones that get dumped.


----------



## Baten

I personally think the new Singxer Su-2 is pretty damn competitive. Assusilicon clocks in SU-1 casing. Better isolation. No bugs...


----------



## ProLoL

I might try the SU2 with an external 10m clock. I'd get the su 6 but it's i2s input sadly is vertical and my best hdmi cable won't fit.


----------



## Baten

ProLoL said:


> I might try the SU2 with an external 10m clock. I'd get the su 6 but it's i2s input sadly is vertical and my best hdmi cable won't fit.


DO let us know how it goes ^_^


----------



## baramzisyan

"No new firmware soon "
official answer from gustard


----------



## roni44

too bad no new firmware to address the bugs, otherwise for the money U16 is hard to beat


----------



## jimmychan

Yes it is. I used to have two U16, I now upgraded to two DI-20HE. It has a huge improvement than the U16.


----------



## baramzisyan

jimmychan said:


> Yes it is. I used to have two U16, I now upgraded to two DI-20HE. It has a huge improvement than the U16.


What price for di-20he? Available on AliExpress or eBay?


----------



## jimmychan

baramzisyan said:


> What price for di-20he? Available on AliExpress or eBay?


Available direct from Audio-gd or a reseller from Europe.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-di-20.918123/


----------



## RRM1

I feel fortunate that with the external clock and firmware V1.61 that all the previous issues are solved. I am even able to up sample everything to DSD from J-River if I chose to do so. Sound stage was ever so slightly narrowed but I suspect this was due mostly to an op-amp swap. I did read one misconception about the external clock C 16 that the only function for the buttons was to dim the led's. That is inaccurate it turns on the filter. If you think you are only dimming the light you are in fact bypassing the external clock function and the u 16 will automatically default to the internal clock.


----------



## motberg

RRM1 said:


> I feel fortunate that with the external clock and firmware V1.61 that all the previous issues are solved. I am even able to up sample everything to DSD from J-River if I chose to do so. Sound stage was ever so slightly narrowed but I suspect this was due mostly to an op-amp swap. I did read one misconception about the external clock C 16 that the only function for the buttons was to dim the led's. That is inaccurate it turns on the filter. If you think you are only dimming the light you are in fact bypassing the external clock function and the u 16 will automatically default to the internal clock.


any pops at all between DSD tracks using the U16 with the X26 via i2s ?


----------



## baramzisyan

jimmychan said:


> Available direct from Audio-gd or a reseller from Europe.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-di-20.918123/



look like u16+ c16 can easy beat di-20he  !


----------



## jimmychan

baramzisyan said:


> look like u16+ c16 can easy beat di-20he  !


I am afraid that It cannot beat it even with C16. I am still owning a C16 with my DI-20HE.
I came a long way from these DDCs. I have been owning at least tens of the latest DDCs at various time.


----------



## RRM1

motberg said:


> any pops at all between DSD tracks using the U16 with the X26 via i2s ?


Not as of yet.


----------



## RRM1 (Mar 7, 2020)

baramzisyan said:


> look like u16+ c16 can easy beat di-20he  !


Not so sure about that. I have yet to hear the DI-20, but it seems that if the consensus is that the DI-20 improvements come over all outputs and does not shin just through 1 of them. Where as the U-16's I2S is far better than the ABS/EBU, coaxial, or optical outputs but are still very good. Also it requires an external clock and just might be hyper sensitive to USB cables (not fully convinced on that YET). I have not seen where the DI-20 needs an external clock. But if you can get it working right the The U&C-16 combo is amazing.


----------



## chuongbeats

Please help with a question of a newbie here.
Before I used a Teradak's Raspberry Pi to connect directly to my old Wadia 15 DAC via coaxial cable (my DAC does not have USB port). Now I want to connect my Pi to Gustard U16 (via USB) and feed to my DAC via coaxial cable. My question is:
- I want to upgrade my teradak's Pi with temperature compensated TCXO clock. Does this clock from Pi has any effect on sound quality when the music is fed to Gustard?
- Is there any difference in sound quality between sources from Raspberry Pi and laptop using USB port, if they're connected to U16?
- my DAC does not have the port for clock connection, If I buy the C16 clock and connect to U16, is there any improvement in sound? I've heard that the clock only has affects if all the digital devices are connected to the master clock (C16) but my DAC is old so clock connection is impossible.
Thank you!


----------



## RRM1

Sorry I have never used Raspberry's so I really could not help with that. As to the C16 and sound improvements with the U16 , all I can say is that it is working for me with Gustard X26 DAC over I2S. That is without a BNC connection to the U16 as the X26 lacks that ability. The sound improvement is noticeable with more separation and tonality but it seems like the sound stage narrowed ever so slightly. I think the C16 price is ridiculous for what it is and got it on sale for slightly over $500 on an 11/11 sale. But it did solve the issues I and many other encountered with clicks/pops, and dropouts. I did also connect the BNC from C16 the to my Audio GD R2R-1 and ABS/EBU from the U16 and did notice an improvement with the external clock that was almost as good as the I2S connect.


----------



## lucianpescaru

Solving the problem with lip-sync delay in my case was easy, I switched the U16 to an USB 2.0 port. No more dropouts as well.


----------



## RRM1

Moved mine into my 2 channel rig and am having very good results with a PSA direct stream DAC far too soon to draw conclusions but impressed so far.


----------



## roni44

lucianpescaru said:


> Solving the problem with lip-sync delay in my case was easy, I switched the U16 to an USB 2.0 port. No more dropouts as well.


thanks, but sadly my MacBook Pro only has USB 3.0


----------



## Baten

roni44 said:


> thanks, but sadly my MacBook Pro only has USB 3.0


usb-c right? that is fine


----------



## roni44

Baten said:


> usb-c right? that is fine


Late 2013 MacBook Pro with USB3.0, lip-sync delay and dropout sometimes, plus EXT clock revert back to INTL often


----------



## Baten

roni44 said:


> Late 2013 MacBook Pro with USB3.0, lip-sync delay and dropout sometimes, plus EXT clock revert back to INTL often


Ah :/


----------



## kluschkin

roni44 said:


> thanks, but sadly my MacBook Pro only has USB 3.0


Hi roni44,
maybe a simple USB 2.0 hub (not powered) between Mac and Gustard will help.
For me it helped to play 192khz files without random stops.


----------



## roni44

kluschkin said:


> Hi roni44,
> maybe a simple USB 2.0 hub (not powered) between Mac and Gustard will help.
> For me it helped to play 192khz files without random stops.


I did try with 2.0 USB hub, ifi micro iUSB3.0, upgraded all my USB and HDMI cable to Wireworld, and even got a nice power cord for the U16 (it did improve the sound), however, little bugs still remain.


----------



## wwmhf

This U16 does not seem to work with the USB ports on the Dell TB16 thunderbolt docking station. I have to connect the U16 to a USB port on the laptop directly; otherwise, my foobar2000 cannot play.


----------



## Blkspn

FredA said:


> Note that the ebay seller sent me a 12V1A psu, which is insufficient , i had a 2A available so i did not mind much..
> 
> This is the unit:
> 
> ...



Hello FredA Can you please share the needed çables to in out from U16 ?

Thank you in advance ciao


----------



## FredA

Blkspn said:


> Hello FredA Can you please share the needed çables to in out from U16 ?
> 
> Thank you in advance ciao


Many cable specs possible, i tried all these and use the first one at the moment. I think it is best if you use a square wave like i do. 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/6G-HD-SDI-V...var=453627069748&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/BNC-Male-to...um-Analyzer-/391757360249?hash=item5b368eec79

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/0-5M-50cm-B...dapter-/113753498625?var=&hash=item1a7c3ca401


----------



## wwmhf

FredA said:


> Many cable specs possible, i tried all these and use the first one at the moment. I think it is best if you use a square wave like i do.
> 
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/6G-HD-SDI-Video-BNC-Male-to-BNC-Male-RG223-50-Ohm-double-shielded-Coaxial-Cable/153605892714?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=453627069748&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...



I like the 2nd one in your list the best. Similar ones are sold by US sellers such as 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-inch-to-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## Blkspn

FredA said:


> Many cable specs possible, i tried all these and use the first one at the moment. I think it is best if you use a square wave like i do.
> 
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/6G-HD-SDI-Video-BNC-Male-to-BNC-Male-RG223-50-Ohm-double-shielded-Coaxial-Cable/153605892714?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=453627069748&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...


Thank you very much FredA!!!

Now need to decide between gustard u16 out the new den frips Iris .... The external ocxo solution is a must for me in both cases !


----------



## FredA

Blkspn said:


> Thank you very much FredA!!!
> 
> Now need to decide between gustard u16 out the new den frips Iris .... The external ocxo solution is a must for me in both cases !


Consider the di20.


----------



## wwmhf

FredA said:


> Consider the di20.



I am considering you suggestion. Audio-gd is offering: 

TCXO Edition                     :USD449
Accusilicon 45/49M Edition:USD499 (Out of stock)
Accusilicon 90/98M Edition:USD549

I have a 10MHz external clock. In this situation, can I just buy the least expensive edition?


----------



## FredA

@wwmhf Ask Kingwa, it could be worth it taking the 90/98 depending on how the 10M input is implemented.


----------



## wwmhf

Thank you @FredA for the suggestion.


----------



## FredA

wwmhf said:


> Thank you @FredA for the suggestion.


Your are welcome.


----------



## Blkspn

FredA said:


> Consider the di20.



Thank you @FredA for the suggestion !!

The problem is that now I want the DI20  

Reading the othr post to better understand


----------



## FredA

Blkspn said:


> Thank you @FredA for the suggestion !!
> 
> The problem is that now I want the DI20
> 
> Reading the othr post to better understand


The ultimate. Is the he version but the regular version also gets great feeback. Check the thread.


----------



## ginetto61

Hi !  sorry to jump in.  Just to know if anyone is using the *U16  AES/EBU out* with satisfaction.  
*I have the older U12* and i am evaluating the *opportunity to upgrade to the U16.  *
Thanks a lot, gino


----------



## jimmychan (May 20, 2020)

ginetto61 said:


> Hi !  sorry to jump in.  Just to know if anyone is using the *U16  AES/EBU out* with satisfaction.
> *I have the older U12* and i am evaluating the *opportunity to upgrade to the U16.  *
> Thanks a lot, gino



I have used the U16 AES out and it is very good.
Now I upgraded to Audio-gd DI-20HE and it improved a lot over the U16.
I suggest if you are looking for upgrade, take a look at DI-20HE, there are many people from here upgraded to DI-20HE.
DI-20 discussion thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-di-20.918123/


----------



## ginetto61

jimmychan said:


> I have used the U16 AES out and it is very good.
> Now I upgraded to Audio-gd DI-20HE and it improved a lot over the U16.
> I suggest if you are looking for upgrade, take a look at DI-20HE, there are many people from here upgraded to DI-20HE.
> DI-20 discussion thread:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-di-20.918123/



Hi thank you very much indeed for your kind and very helpful advice.   I have no doubt about that.  
I have to say that the price is higher than the value of my dacs all together.   A Hegel HD10, a Apogee Rosetta 200 and a old Benchmark dac 1 first version.  
I am reasonably fine already with the U12 but the U16 is very tempting ... very.   
The Audio-GD looks to me like a really high end unit.  My system is medium to low quality.   
Thanks again, gino


----------



## jimmychan

U16 is very good indeed at this price range. 
DI20 just for your info if you are looking for upgrade in the future.


----------



## ginetto61

jimmychan said:


> U16 is very good indeed at this price range.
> DI20 just for your info if you are looking for upgrade in the future.


Thank a lot again.  Kindest regards,  gino


----------



## DecentLevi (Jun 13, 2020)

Hey guys I'm thinking of getting a used U16, said to be in good condition and no bugs such as when changing sample rates or paying. Does anyone have any words on the quality of the U16's BNC coax output? I would be feeding it that way to my Qutest DAC. Also he says he has a Gustard 10M external clock available. Any words on how much improvement this may make? I'm on the fence on that one, costing more than the DDC itself. I already have a Schiit Wyrd and iFi iPurifier I can put in the USB chain before the U16, so maybe either/both of these would negate the need for the 10M external clock(?), even if these may not specifically be reclockers, LOL.

My current DDC is a Singxer SU-1 early first-gen version and I've also heard about the DC mod and KTE mods for it which I'm considering.


----------



## wwmhf

DecentLevi said:


> Hey guys I'm thinking of getting a used U16, said to be in good condition and no bugs such as when changing sample rates or paying. Does anyone have any words on the quality of the U16's BNC coax output? I would be feeding it that way to my Qutest DAC. Also he says he has a Gustard 10M external clock available. Any words on how much improvement this may make? I'm on the fence on that one, costing more than the DDC itself. I already have a Schiit Wyrd and iFi iPurifier I can put in the USB chain before the U16, so maybe either/both of these would negate the need for the 10M external clock(?), even if these may not specifically be reclockers, LOL.
> 
> My current DDC is a Singxer SU-1 early first-gen version and I've also heard about the DC mod and KTE mods for it which I'm considering.



I have both U16 and SU-1 and I like U16 better. I am using U16 with an external 10Mhz clock. This combination is noticeably better than U16 itself


----------



## DecentLevi

Interesting. I'm thinking to get a U16/C16 combo used in good shape. Do you have any words on what the external clock does and how it makes an improvement? This is something that escapes me even after so long in the game. If it's already been written just send a link to it.


----------



## roni44

DecentLevi said:


> Interesting. I'm thinking to get a U16/C16 combo used in good shape. Do you have any words on what the external clock does and how it makes an improvement? This is something that escapes me even after so long in the game. If it's already been written just send a link to it.



Not sure how much is the used U16/C16, but if it's anything close to around 500USD, you should serious consider Audio GD DI-20 90/98M.The DI20 itself sounds way better then Gustard combo and you can always add ext clock later.


----------



## DecentLevi

roni44 said:


> Not sure how much is the used U16/C16, but if it's anything close to around 500USD, you should serious consider Audio GD DI-20 90/98M.The DI20 itself sounds way better then Gustard combo and you can always add ext clock later.


I plan to get the U16/C16 combo unit for about $600. I'm guessing that's a better value since it comes with a reclocker for just a little over the DI-20 cost alone... yeah I looked up the DI-20 earlier and it said $988 and now there's one for about $450. What's the difference between the DI-20 HE and regular DI-20 (sonically at least). Thanks


----------



## roni44

DecentLevi said:


> I plan to get the U16/C16 combo unit for about $600. I'm guessing that's a better value since it comes with a reclocker for just a little over the DI-20 cost alone... yeah I looked up the DI-20 earlier and it said $988 and now there's one for about $450. What's the difference between the DI-20 HE and regular DI-20 (sonically at least). Thanks



I got mine DI20 90/98 version last week. Previously owned U16+ GPSDO 10mhz clock. DI20 blew away U16+clock combo. 90/98 version cost under 600. HE version comes with better power supply and etc, but since I have good LPS and power cord, 90/98 version I thought was enough. I can tell you that with DI-20, the depth, detail and layer is so much better compared to Gustard, it's in a another league. And my DI20 still in early burn-in stage.


----------



## jimmychan (Jun 14, 2020)

I have previously owned 2 x U16 + C16, DI-20HE definitely blew away U16+C16. SU1 & SU6 is no need to mention.


----------



## DecentLevi

roni44 said:


> I got mine DI20 90/98 version last week. Previously owned U16+ GPSDO 10mhz clock. DI20 blew away U16+clock combo. 90/98 version cost under 600. HE version comes with better power supply and etc, but since I have good LPS and power cord, 90/98 version I thought was enough. I can tell you that with DI-20, the depth, detail and layer is so much better compared to Gustard, it's in a another league. And my DI20 still in early burn-in stage.


Well that's good to hear. I already have the top-tier AC power conditioner from Furman, so that should benefit the DI-20. You mentioned you have a good LPS, do you mean you're using a DC LPS or an AC power filter for the DI-20? Also any word on which connection type it works best with? My main connection would be BNC coax to the Qutest DAC. (maybe you have best results with HDMI, AES, etc.?)

Actually I had a very sub-par experience from a recent Audio-GD product recently. I ordered a new R-1 R2R DAC from them new, full upgraded version and let it burn-in for 3 weeks straight but the sound to me was still inferior to even my lowly Modi 2 Multibit DAC. But I'm assuming their DDC is better than their DACs.


----------



## roni44

DecentLevi said:


> Well that's good to hear. I already have the top-tier AC power conditioner from Furman, so that should benefit the DI-20. You mentioned you have a good LPS, do you mean you're using a DC LPS or an AC power filter for the DI-20? Also any word on which connection type it works best with? My main connection would be BNC coax to the Qutest DAC. (maybe you have best results with HDMI, AES, etc.?)
> 
> Actually I had a very sub-par experience from a recent Audio-GD product recently. I ordered a new R-1 R2R DAC from them new, full upgraded version and let it burn-in for 3 weeks straight but the sound to me was still inferior to even my lowly Modi 2 Multibit DAC. But I'm assuming their DDC is better than their DACs.



Sorry, I mean I already have a really nice conditioner and power cable. I'm using MacBook Pro USB to DI20+GPSDO clock then I2S/HDMI to my Micromega M100. I don't have other Audio GD goods other than DI20 so can't say for sure about the sound signature. I did own Modi 2 multibit DAC for few months, very nice little DAC indeed for the money.


----------



## Ludique (Jun 20, 2020)

About hdmi cables:

There is one more tweak worth doing. Opening the source side hdmi plug and cutting all unused connections. Of course you need to know which ones your dac has no need for. Often the mlck and couple others. Don’t cut the +5v, U16 needs that.


----------



## baramzisyan

Okay, what best stable firmware for u16?  
1.61?


----------



## JaMo

1.61NFB

You will find it here: https://onedrive.live.com/?id=636DC4E8060D66A1!380&cid=636DC4E8060D66A1
@DACLadder is kind enough to store some Gustard U16 firmwares and allow downloads.

/Jan


----------



## tuyen

I recently purchased a U16 from a friend who bought it a long while ago and never used it.

It's buggy as hell compared to say a Singer SU-1 and SU-6 that I borrowed from another friend.

Left and right channels swapped with coaxial output.   Tried all firmware versions.     I've had to use Equalizer APO 12.1 and add a filter that switches L/R channels.    

It does sound a bit smoother/warmer than a SU-6 though, which is a positive for me. 

Have a 10Mhz OCXO ext clock coming to pair with the U16.


----------



## jimmychan

U16 sounds better than SU6.  Try the latest FW and the setting on the panel to see if it helps.


----------



## tuyen

The latest firmware V1.77 has issue whereby the sound keeps randomly switching between left and right channel.  

When running I2S output to my friends Holo Spring 2,  I can use the left button to change I2S output type so left/right channels is correct. But doesn't affect coaxial output.

How much better is the AudioGD DI-20 over the U16?     Can't really afford one at the moment, but would be nice to know.


----------



## roni44

I got the DI20 90/98, I can assure it's much better than U16. I personally thinks it's a lot of money for DDC, but worth every penny.


----------



## jimmychan

I sold my 2 U16 and bought 2 DI-20HE, it worth the money.


----------



## JaMo (Jul 23, 2020)

tuyen said:


> The latest firmware V1.77 has issue whereby the sound keeps randomly switching between left and right channel.
> 
> When running I2S output to my friends Holo Spring 2,  I can use the left button to change I2S output type so left/right channels is correct. But doesn't affect coaxial output.
> 
> How much better is the AudioGD DI-20 over the U16?     Can't really afford one at the moment, but would be nice to know.


I think You should try the 1.61NFB from here :https://onedrive.live.com/?id=636DC4E8060D66A1!380&cid=636DC4E8060D66A1

I run it on my two U16's without any issues. I also have DI20HE and it is a number of steps better in all aspects, so I can recommend it as a good upgrade. Until then run the U16 on 1.61NFB.rom
/Jan


----------



## crocoyes3

I've been using the smaller Gustard U12 model for several years with excellent results. This Gustard U16 replaces the U12 in my main hi-fi setup allowing me to relocate the U12 to a separate computer audio setup.

What surprised me was that the Gustard U16 was plug-and-play to my Windows 10 music PC. It appears to use the USB 2.0 audio driver that Microsoft bundled into Windows 10 a few releases back. So I didn't experience any of the driver downloading/fiddling that was required when I first installed the U12. With the Microsoft driver there is no ASIO device, only WASAPI (including Exclusive Mode) but this is fine for me. I set my main audio applications, jRiver Media Center and Qobuz, to use the WASAPI Exclusive Mode device so that sample rates always come out of the PC matching the source.

I haven't had the U16 for long, but so far the sound is pristine. I hesitate to name any difference from the U12, though I suppose it's possible. The U12 did have a nice feature that it went into "standby" mode whenever the PC was turned off (and awakened itself when the PC was turned back on), whereas the U16 requires manual on/off switching.


----------



## cold storage (Aug 5, 2020)

*GUSTARD USBAudioドライバー4.82.0
https://hifi-exquis.com/en/ak4xxx-decoder/675-gustard-dac-a22-dual-ak4499-dac.html
U16で動作します *

Quote
*https://jyoujian.exblog.jp/*


----------



## Ludique (Sep 6, 2020)

There is a link on Gustard’s Chinese only Facebook page for a new firmware 1.72.

Don’t try to use it. 1.61nfb is still the one and only.


----------



## lucianpescaru

Can you provide the link for download please?


----------



## Ludique

lucianpescaru said:


> Can you provide the link for download please?



https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GZcdzkL9f6Ajfa8snryEI8l7ccff97Zi


----------



## baramzisyan

Ludique said:


> There is a link on Gustard’s Chinese only Facebook page for a new firmware 1.72.
> 
> Don’t try to use it. 1.61nfb is still the one and only.



but why do you think so?   Gustard give official answer, so 1.72 is better then 1.61 nfb.


----------



## Ludique (Sep 8, 2020)

baramzisyan said:


> but why do you think so?   Gustard give official answer, so 1.72 is better then 1.61 nfb.



With my PS Audio dac 1.61nfb is completely problem free. Everything works.

I tried the 1.72 and with 192/24 it was badly distorted. I changed immediately back to 1.61nfb.

I have no idea about sync issues though. It may help with those.


----------



## jkorten

A heads up on the Gustard U16. It is fatally flawed due to the firmware in the USB chip evidently. I've monitored the word clock output on my scope at 192kHz and the variability is noticable. So much so my DAC loses lock on the SPDIF signal. My advice is to stay away from this device until they come out with a new revision that is so identified. They current revision, though it sounds nicer on my DAC at 44.1kHz, cannot function at hi resolution sample rates.


----------



## wwmhf

jkorten said:


> A heads up on the Gustard U16. It is fatally flawed due to the firmware in the USB chip evidently. I've monitored the word clock output on my scope at 192kHz and the variability is noticable. So much so my DAC loses lock on the SPDIF signal. My advice is to stay away from this device until they come out with a new revision that is so identified. They current revision, though it sounds nicer on my DAC at 44.1kHz, cannot function at hi resolution sample rates.



This is useful information. To help us further, would you please let us know which firmware version was used in your test?


----------



## DACLadder

Buy an Audio GD DI-20 instead.  It beats them all Including the Singxers.


----------



## jkorten

wwmhf said:


> This is useful information. To help us further, would you please let us know which firmware version was used in your test?


The latest firmware they said was stable. I'm remembering 1.62 but I don't have it in front of me. But it was the latest they said. The trouble is the firmware in the chip that Gustard cannot control (USB chip I think). But you can see the phase shifting on the word clock easily. It's a bust.


----------



## jkorten

DACLadder said:


> Buy an Audio GD DI-20 instead.  It beats them all Including the Singxers.


They had a special on the Singxer U2 for like $280 so I bought that one. Your DI-20 is twice as much. I'd just probably throw in the towel and buy a decent DAC that has addressed all these issues for that price. But... let's see how emotionally stable I remain.


----------



## boxerlc (Oct 21, 2020)

The jkorten above is my friend, the U16 he tested was mine. After seeing this issue I got the unit replaced, however, the issue remains for the replacement unit. I gave up on the U16 and we both got the Singxer SU-2, which is a well made and trouble free product. I think it is worth the extra money to get the su-2.

The firmware we tested with U16 was 1.61NFB. I remember trying the 1.72REL before, if press and hold the right button, the U16 will crash and reboot. You guys can verify if what I said is true. Refering to Gustard, 1.61NFB is the latest 'stable' version of firmware, even though it's still buggy in my opinion. Gustard didn't develop the firmware for the ES8620 chip inside, ESS customized the firmware for Gustard. Gustard doesn't have the ability to develop or release new firmware on its own. I don't blame Gustard for the bugs, but I do think Gustard should nag ESS to release a working firmware update. I'm a firmware developer myself, I'm guess eight ESS has programmed the firmware very badly or the ES8620 has some hardware design flaws.


----------



## tuyen

Gustard hasn't been helpful to me when I asked them about issues Im having.   Poor form from them in my opinion.  Knowing what you guys have recently mentioned, I'll just look at selling my u16 soon. Maybe someone else will have better luck with it on their hardware.


----------



## Ludique (Oct 23, 2020)

An external clock solves these problems.

Changing the ps caps to 35v ones is also mandatory IMO, because the voltage there is 26v. I think it’s an unforgivable error from Gustard to use 25v Muse caps there.

The probable reason is they wanted/had to use Muse caps and the 35v ones wouldn’t fit in this enclosure.


----------



## tuyen

I do have an external 10mhz clock so I could try it first.  What does the changing of input caps do? I could change them but then would void factory warranty (not that gustard support has been that helpful so for).


----------



## Ludique (Oct 23, 2020)

tuyen said:


> I do have an external 10mhz clock so I could try it first.  What does the changing of input caps do? I could change them but then would void factory warranty (not that gustard support has been that helpful so for).



Changing the caps gives you peace of mind, because the original ones could fail any time. There is also a change in tonality depending on the brand. See rafabro’s post #859. I didn’t use Silmics myself.

The problem is smaller if your mains is 110 or 220v.


----------



## boxerlc

Ludique said:


> An external clock solves these problems.
> 
> Changing the ps caps to 35v ones is also mandatory IMO, because the voltage there is 26v. I think it’s an unforgivable error from Gustard to use 25v Muse caps there.
> 
> The probable reason is they wanted/had to use Muse caps and the 35v ones wouldn’t fit in this enclosure.


Unfortunately, my friend has the C16 too, tried it with with U16 with no luck.
About the caps, I talked about it with the designer too. He said the voltage on the caps during operation is lower than 25V, so it’s OK to use them. I don’t know if it’s true.


----------



## Ludique

boxerlc said:


> Unfortunately, my friend has the C16 too, tried it with with U16 with no luck.
> About the caps, I talked about it with the designer too. He said the voltage on the caps during operation is lower than 25V, so it’s OK to use them. I don’t know if it’s true.



It’s true in China where the Mains voltage is 220V. It is not true in countries of 230V or higher.  I have measured mine close to 26v.


----------



## boxerlc

UsoppNoKami said:


> I have owned both the SU-6 and U16 for half a year. Using I2S , there is slight difference in presentation but both are just as good in terms of SQ.
> 
> However the U16 has horrible firmware issues and doesn't work properly half the time. Never mind the notoriously problematic I2S, I have been testing AES with a spare Aune DAC and the bugs when switching sample rates (eg shuffled playlists) continue to affect the U16, current 1.61 firmware. This just tells me that Gustard has done a very very poor job.
> 
> The last communication with Shenzen Audio and Gustard was 2 months ago, I was promised a new firmware 'very soon' but nothing has yet surfaced. Make of it what you will, and good luck to anyone thinking of taking a punt on the U16.


I should've read your post before buying U16, I bought in last November, told to wait for a firmware update. Now almost 11 months has past, no new firmware. 99% percent of the time, U16 was eating dust at the corner, not usable at all.


Ludique said:


> It’s true in China where the Mains voltage is 220V. It is not true in countries of 230V or higher.  I have measured mine close to 26v.


In fact somebody measured the voltage in China, it was also over 25 volts.
The designer said the capacitor can sustain 20% more over the marked voltage. Also there will be a voltage drop when connect to loads.
I’m just copying what I was told here. Personally, if I were the designer, I will give some large overhead to the capacitors to make them last longer.


----------



## Ludique

Seems like U16 works perfectly only with PS Audio Directstream dacs and maybe Gustard’s own.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

boxerlc said:


> I should've read your post before buying U16, I bought in last November, told to wait for a firmware update. Now almost 11 months has past, no new firmware. 99% percent of the time, U16 was eating dust at the corner, not usable at all.



My gaming rig is still happily running on Singxer SU-6 + Audio-GD R1 DAC.

My main music rig now runs Allo USBridgeSig (Roon bridge) -> Uptone ISOregen -> Audio-GD DI-20HE to my R7HE DAC.  

I've not gotten around to making a U16 bonfire video yet, but thanks for the reminder lol


----------



## boxerlc

UsoppNoKami said:


> My gaming rig is still happily running on Singxer SU-6 + Audio-GD R1 DAC.
> 
> My main music rig now runs Allo USBridgeSig (Roon bridge) -> Uptone ISOregen -> Audio-GD DI-20HE to my R7HE DAC.
> 
> I've not gotten around to making a U16 bonfire video yet, but thanks for the reminder lol


LOL!


----------



## wwmhf

Ludique said:


> Seems like U16 works perfectly only with PS Audio Directstream dacs and maybe Gustard’s own.



The U16 seems to work well with Gustard x26 for me, either with internal clock or external clock, but the external clock sounds better to me. 

This is just based on how it sound, I cannot do any measurement.


----------



## wwmhf

tuyen said:


> I do have an external 10mhz clock so I could try it first.  What does the changing of input caps do? I could change them but then would void factory warranty (not that gustard support has been that helpful so for).



If you do have one, then you should try to listen to how it sound for you. To me, the external 10Mhz clock sounds better. 

I think Ludque mentioned the cap in the power supply, not input. It is always a good idea to use larger capacity, higher voltage, higher quality caps in the power supply.


----------



## Deolum

I need some help from you guys.

Soon my Metrum Pavane Dac will arrive.
As far as i know from the forum that must not be named on headfi the best input is the i2s, closely followed by AES and USB is by far the worst.

My unit is without i2s input but that can be upgraded later.

At the moment my only source is a Sotm-Sms 200 which only has a usb output.

Now which of the following options would be sonically the best?

A) Adding a U16 or Matrix Spdif 2 to the Sotm. So i can use the AES output of the U16 now, the I2S output later when i upgraded it and can someday upgrade the Sotm to the ultra neo

B) Getting a Metrum Ambre or Sonnet Hermes to connect directly via I2S and AES.

Or i get something like a Aries Femto with AES connection.

But can a Sotm Ultra Neo + U16 combo be better than a Streamer like a Ambre or Pi2aes which does connect directly to the correct input of the dac?


----------



## lucianpescaru (Nov 23, 2020)

Ludique said:


> Changing the ps caps to 35v ones is also mandatory IMO, because the voltage there is 26v. I think it’s an unforgivable error from Gustard to use 25v Muse caps there.
> The probable reason is they wanted/had to use Muse caps and the 35v ones wouldn’t fit in this enclosure.



Can you provide a link for 35V replacement capacitors? I prefer Nichicon KA series. What is the maximum diameter and height?


----------



## boxerlc (Nov 23, 2020)

Deolum said:


> I need some help from you guys.
> 
> Soon my Metrum Pavane Dac will arrive.
> As far as i know from the forum that must not be named on headfi the best input is the i2s, closely followed by AES and USB is by far the worst.
> ...


At least don’t get the u16, it has poor support under Linux based OS due to the buggy ES8620 chip firmware. Get the singxer su-2 instead, guaranteed much better. Actually not recommend u16 even for windows, too many unsolvable bugs.

something like the su-2 provide you with the option to use a external clock to further improve the signal quality. Also the I2S port pin definition can be changed, so you can use it after changing your DAC. Each manufacturer has its own I2S pin definition, the compatibility is not guaranteed if the I2S definition of a source device cannot be changed. U16 and Su-2 support definition configuration for the majority of the DAC, it might be another good reason to get a USB audio bridge.

If you go to Shenzhenaudio today, Everything will be on sale for Black Friday.


----------



## jimmychan (Nov 23, 2020)

Deolum said:


> I need some help from you guys.
> 
> Soon my Metrum Pavane Dac will arrive.
> As far as i know from the forum that must not be named on headfi the best input is the i2s, closely followed by AES and USB is by far the worst.
> ...



I don't know Ambre or Pi2aes, but I have tried Rpi4B + U16 can beat dCS Network Bridge, Aurrender N10, Naim Uniti Core.

I recently upgraded U16 to DI-20HE, which is much better than U16.


----------



## JaMo

I still think U16 is very good value for the money at USD299. It is true the DI20's are better and should be at their higher cost. (DI20 and DI20HE)
I have two U16's where one has a USD50 Ext XO connected and it is nice sounding. Both U16 runs on 1.61NFB firmware without any problems using LINUX players on raspberry Pi's. With a limited budget I think U16 is a good choice. 
/J


----------



## boxerlc

JaMo said:


> I still think U16 is very good value for the money at USD299. It is true the DI20's are better and should be at their higher cost. (DI20 and DI20HE)
> I have two U16's where one has a USD50 Ext XO connected and it is nice sounding. Both U16 runs on 1.61NFB firmware without any problems using LINUX players on raspberry Pi's. With a limited budget I think U16 is a good choice.
> /J


The problem of U16 will be exposed if you play high sample rate music files, like 192KHz, it will cause some DAC not be able to lock to the signal. Under Windows it has this problem too. I had my hands on three of these U16s, tested on at NT503, Qutest and Titans Audio Helen. If you try to play hi-res long enough, I’m sure you will find some problem.


----------



## Ludique

lucianpescaru said:


> Can you provide a link for 35V replacement capacitors? I prefer Nichicon KA series. What is the maximum diameter and height?



C. 16x32 mm fits in well.


----------



## lucianpescaru (Nov 23, 2020)

Ludique said:


> C. 16x32 mm fits in well.



Ordered 3300uf Nichicon KA 35V 16x35.5mm will come back with the results. By measurement it seems to have 38mm of off the board. Including the board thickness so it will be a tight fit. Will put some isolation tape on top of the caps, maybe they'll fit.


----------



## lucianpescaru

I had to file a bit of the standoffs in order for the 35.5mm cap to fit... not much change in sound, maybe cleaner bass.16x32mm would fit without any other squeeze in issues.


----------



## Cortes

boxerlc said:


> At least don’t get the u16, it has poor support under Linux based OS due to the buggy ES8620 chip firmware. Get the singxer su-2 instead, guaranteed much better. Actually not recommend u16 even for windows, too many unsolvable bugs.
> 
> something like the su-2 provide you with the option to use a external clock to further improve the signal quality. Also the I2S port pin definition can be changed, so you can use it after changing your DAC. Each manufacturer has its own I2S pin definition, the compatibility is not guaranteed if the I2S definition of a source device cannot be changed. U16 and Su-2 support definition configuration for the majority of the DAC, it might be another good reason to get a USB audio bridge.
> 
> If you go to Shenzhenaudio today, Everything will be on sale for Black Friday.



Why?. I've been using the U16 to feed my Genelecs with AES during roughly one year and is rock solid. Not a single glitch, issue. I use it from a Sony laptop in windows.


----------



## boxerlc (Dec 13, 2020)

Cortes said:


> Why?. I've been using the U16 to feed my Genelecs with AES during roughly one year and is rock solid. Not a single glitch, issue. I use it from a Sony laptop in windows.


I experience problems when playing high sample rate audio streams through it in my system. I have a reclocker called Titans Audio Helen, it’s basically a high performance external phase lock loop device. In high precision mode it requires high precision input data. When I connect u16 to it, u16’s signal often glitches, make Helen unable to lock to it and try to relock, and stuck in the unlock and relock loop, making it unusable. I send the u16 to my friend, he tested it with his NT503. When playing 44.1KHz, everything was fine, but when playing 192Khz and above, it will cause NT503 to unlock. I contacted the vender, asked for a replacement unit, tested on both systems, same problem. I contact Gustard, they said ESS 8620 is not guaranteed to work with Linux and they don’t know what’s the problem, but it still doesn’t work after I switched to windows.
I also contacted another guy who bought u16 to test u16 with 192Khz stream on his system, his unit had the same problem. Later my friend and I both got the singxer su-2s, no problem with them at all. So it proved the U16s were the problem. You can test yours with 192Khz audio, see if it pops sometimes. There has been many user reporting problems of the ESS 8620 solution Gustard devices, not just U16, X26 has problems too. Here is another clue, look at Gustard’s recent released  products, they already ditched the ESS chip and went back to XMOS chips.
If the U16 is OK in your system, fine, keep using it, but I do upsampling to all my music, so I need some thing works with high sample rates.


----------



## Cortes

boxerlc said:


> I experience problems when playing high sample rate audio streams through it in my system. I have a reclocker called Titans Audio Helen, it’s basically a high performance external phase lock loop device. In high precision mode it requires high precision input data. When I connect u16 to it, u16’s signal often glitches, make Helen unable to lock to it and try to relock, and stuck in the unlock and relock loop, making it unusable. I send the u16 to my friend, he tested it with his NT503. When playing 44.1KHz, everything was fine, but when playing 192Khz and above, it will cause NT503 to unlock. I contacted the vender, asked for a replacement unit, tested on both systems, same problem. I contact Gustard, they said ESS 8620 is not guaranteed to work with Linux and they don’t know what’s the problem, but it still doesn’t work after I switched to windows.
> I also contacted another guy who bought u16 to test u16 with 192Khz stream on his system, his unit had the same problem. Later my friend and I both got the singxer su-2s, no problem with them at all. So it proved the U16s were the problem. You can test yours with 192Khz audio, see if it pops sometimes. There has been many user reporting problems of the ESS 8620 solution Gustard devices, not just U16, X26 has problems too. Here is another clue, look at Gustard’s recent released  products, they already ditched the ESS chip and went back to XMOS chips.
> If the U16 is OK in your system, fine, keep using it, but I do upsampling to all my music, so I need some thing works with high sample rates.



That's pretty awful. The highest I use is 24/96 which is the limit of the Genelec One's AES.


----------



## boxerlc

Cortes said:


> That's pretty awful. The highest I use is 24/96 which is the limit of the Genelec One's AES.


Oh, u16 is fine for your application then. Just confirmed with Gustard, there upcoming X26 pro(an update version of X26) will use XMOS instead of ESS chip used by the X26. So my assumption is true, they did stop using ESS solution.


----------



## baramzisyan

soumya.banerjee said:


> There you go...
> http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=56543198757744070629
> https://uploadfiles.io/206ob
> 
> Copy the contents to C:\Program Files\Gustard USB Audio Driver\W10_x64


reupload, please


----------



## Ludique (Dec 16, 2020)

I’ve used U16 with PS Audio and Musician dacs. Lumin u1 mini is my source, which is Linux. Everything from 44 to dsd256 has played as it should.


----------



## zeid2

Ludique said:


> I’ve used U16 with PS Audio and Musician dacs. Lumin u1 mini is my source, which is Linux. Everything from 44 to dsd256 has played as it should.


I can just concur to what Ludique has written. I have used U16 in combination with C16, source is SOtM Trifecta and EtherRegen, Gustard feeds both Denafrips Terminator (I2S) and Auralic Vega (AES/EBU). After the installation of FW 1.61NFB everything works like a breeze and the sound is beyond any reproach with all formats.


----------



## sumpao

Hi guy I just own U16 but cannot set it to dsd input.
I cannot find the DSD foobar folder in Shenzhen audio.
Could anybody help?

I use jriver 26 for playback in window 10

Thank agian


----------



## taz23

Cortes said:


> Why?. I've been using the U16 to feed my Genelecs with AES during roughly one year and is rock solid. Not a single glitch, issue. I use it from a Sony laptop in windows.



Same here.  Feeding Genelec via AES out from U16 and PC has been issue-free.  (By the way, the Genelecs accept up to 24/192, but no DSD, sadly.)

But recently, I have been playing around with dedicated transport (specifically xDuoo X10T II): USB out from transport into U16, and then AES to Genelecs.  While the sound quality improved, the U16 started to give issues after 30 min or so of playing, with very brief signal loss or drop every 30 seconds or so at 44.1/48kHz.  192 is not playable as the loss/drop is constant.  On the Genelec, it results in the red LED blink and a loud clicking sound at every loss/drop.  

I will play around to see if there is a way around this issue.  Hopefully I am able to solve this as the music quality is the best via this route (as compared to direct AES out from the transport).


----------



## taz23

taz23 said:


> Same here.  Feeding Genelec via AES out from U16 and PC has been issue-free.  (By the way, the Genelecs accept up to 24/192, but no DSD, sadly.)
> 
> But recently, I have been playing around with dedicated transport (specifically xDuoo X10T II): USB out from transport into U16, and then AES to Genelecs.  While the sound quality improved, the U16 started to give issues after 30 min or so of playing, with very brief signal loss or drop every 30 seconds or so at 44.1/48kHz.  192 is not playable as the loss/drop is constant.  On the Genelec, it results in the red LED blink and a loud clicking sound at every loss/drop.
> 
> I will play around to see if there is a way around this issue.  Hopefully I am able to solve this as the music quality is the best via this route (as compared to direct AES out from the transport).



So it seems that the source plays a role too.

Anyway, thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread and posted the FW update files, I am happy to report that the 1.72REL seems to work wonders in my case.  With AES out to Genelecs, 192kHz now works flawlessly now.  I hope it will be stable.

Happy holidays and happy listening too!


----------



## simon 2

I have a u16 and it drops out every 10 mins or so .I tried different firmware and cables but still does it 44.1khz . I would like to know how the sound  or the Singxer  su-2 compares with the u16   and where you find the 1.72 firmware


----------



## boxerlc

simon 2 said:


> I have a u16 and it drops out every 10 mins or so .I tried different firmware and cables but still does it 44.1khz . I would like to know how the sound  or the Singxer  su-2 compares with the u16   and where you find the 1.72 firmware


Don’t bother finding the 1.72REL firmware. It has more problems. Just get the su-2 if you need a USB bridge. Some guy at ASR has already measured it, it’s better than the u16. There is no need to do a listening test between the two in my case, because the u16 is simply not usable.


----------



## simon 2

boxerlc said:


> Don’t bother finding the 1.72REL firmware. It has more problems. Just get the su-2 if you need a USB bridge. Some guy at ASR has already measured it, it’s better than the u16. There is no need to do a listening test between the two in my case, because the u16 is simply not usable.


I really like the sound of the u-16 and have a gustard c-16 so I need something with a  10 m input.  I will have to buy something else and the  su-2 looks like the one


----------



## sumpao

What is the best firmware for U16 I now use 1.61


----------



## sumpao

boxerlc said:


> Don’t bother finding the 1.72REL firmware. It has more problems. Just get the su-2 if you need a USB bridge. Some guy at ASR has already measured it, it’s better than the u16. There is no need to do a listening test between the two in my case, because the u16 is simply not usable.


I really like the sound too. and it cheap for the sound change
Driver and firmware is a nightmare


----------



## sumpao

From my issue of DSD I have a solution for it already.

I follow the link below

to download GU16V1_4_PSA_0db_PS_Audio_I2S  this firmware for  Gustard U16

And  Class FW3 for Audio gd R28

https://onedrive.live.com/?id=636DC4E8060D66A1!172&cid=636DC4E8060D66A1

The two FW from each device have to be exact otherwise DSD will play but have no sound

OMG this is one of a config i don't plan to do it in the future.

The only downside for this set up is DSD to PCM change format you will here a pop sometime.

But it the best I can set it up


----------



## sumpao

The new Gustard driver v5.0 is good it should be launch today.

I have one question in sample rate there is a safe mode bottle did you guy use it?


----------



## roni44

simon 2 said:


> I really like the sound of the u-16 and have a gustard c-16 so I need something with a  10 m input.  I will have to buy something else and the  su-2 looks like the one


Many of us ex-u16 owners went to AudioGD DI-20 and never look back, and your C-16 will work perfect with DI-20. But price of DI-20 is much more but you are getting more.


----------



## ProLoL

So did the 5.0 driver fix the popping and clicking?


----------



## sumpao

ProLoL said:


> So did the 5.0 driver fix the popping and clicking?



It depend but for ASIO setting it so much better.


----------



## domiji

Hello Gustard Lovers  

i received my U16 today and i want to use it with my Gustard X16 DAC. But sadly the I2S connection does not work properly. I can play files up to 88.2khz but 24/96 and above won't work. If i play it trough the coaxial connection - everything is fine. 

Do i have to configure the U16 especially for my X16 I2S interface?

Thanks and many greetings


----------



## JaMo (Mar 2, 2021)

domiji said:


> Hello Gustard Lovers
> 
> i received my U16 today and i want to use it with my Gustard X16 DAC. But sadly the I2S connection does not work properly. I can play files up to 88.2khz but 24/96 and above won't work. If i play it trough the coaxial connection - everything is fine.
> 
> ...


Take contact with Shenzen audio. They are pretty responsive. There are settings to chose but very poor instructions. For the first advise flash on the 1.61NFB firmware. The second advise I can give You is to open J35 jumper if You have to open it for the config. The third advise is: Get a decent external 10MHz XO with a short 50 Ohm BNC cable and a silent LPS for power supply.

I marked with a yellow ring around J35, and a green ring for the jumper setting You may have to change to match X16.
Good luck/Jan


----------



## domiji

Hello Jan, 

Thank you very much  
Should i open both jumper? 

I have installed the actual Firmware from the Gustard Website. Is this the right one? Or does it has to be a special "NFB" Version?


----------



## JaMo (Mar 2, 2021)

domiji said:


> Hello Jan,
> 
> Thank you very much
> Should i open both jumper?
> ...


Just open the J35. The settings for I2S over HDMI, You must get the correct instruction from Shenzen Audio. If You PM me I can provide You with the right fw.

Edit. You can find it here: In the Gustard U16 folder  https://onedrive.live.com/?id=636DC4E8060D66A1!380&cid=636DC4E8060D66A1


----------



## domiji

Thank you so much for your help. Switching the HDMI cable and your NFB firmware did solve my problem 

The only thing that is not working at the moment are MQA files (Tidal via Roon). Regardless what i configure in Roon - i am not able to play MQA files to my X16 DAC. Normally the X16 handles MQA files directly inside the ESS9068 chipset. Even over Coax i am able to play MQA files.

Does anyone may have an advice for me?


----------



## dnnaudio

Is there a use case for the U16 where it will work flawless? I have a simple setup:  

Laptop > USB cable > DDC > RCA Coax  Cable > DAC > Integrated Amp > Speakers

Itunes on laptop plays locally stored WAV files and in future DSD files as well. I hate to buy something I need to endlessly tinker w/ to get it work smoothly. Sorry have no patience.


----------



## JaMo (Mar 9, 2021)

dnnaudio said:


> Is there a use case for the U16 where it will work flawless? I have a simple setup:
> 
> Laptop > USB cable > DDC > RCA Coax  Cable > DAC > Integrated Amp > Speakers
> 
> Itunes on laptop plays locally stored WAV files and in future DSD files as well. I hate to buy something I need to endlessly tinker w/ to get it work smoothly. Sorry have no patience.



I have two flawlessly working U16's but I am keeping MS Windows out of the scenario. I think Windows is good for creating/producing music but not for playing it. I am using Linux (ALSA) based players via USB to the U16's. The U16's are using the "1.61NFB" firmware with the PSA setting via I2s (HDMI) to the Audio-gd dac's.
I suggest You to buy a small NAS and also a small computer board and install a well known Linux player and You will be happy. Most Linux players can handle Itunes and alot of other services. I am using PiCorePlayer which is a very well kept, license free player. It just works great with the LMS nightly builds on my NAS's
/Jan

https://www.picoreplayer.org/
http://downloads-origin.slimdevices.com/nightly/?ver=8.2


----------



## ProLoL

dnnaudio said:


> Is there a use case for the U16 where it will work flawless? I have a simple setup:
> 
> Laptop > USB cable > DDC > RCA Coax  Cable > DAC > Integrated Amp > Speakers
> 
> Itunes on laptop plays locally stored WAV files and in future DSD files as well. I hate to buy something I need to endlessly tinker w/ to get it work smoothly. Sorry have no patience.


I've heard using the C16 clock almost eliminates all pops and clicks if not all of them.


----------



## taz23

simon 2 said:


> I have a u16 and it drops out every 10 mins or so .I tried different firmware and cables but still does it 44.1khz . I would like to know how the sound  or the Singxer  su-2 compares with the u16   and where you find the 1.72 firmware


Sorry, I seldom come to Head-fi, and did not see the question.  
I downloaded it from https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GZcdzkL9f6Ajfa8snryEI8l7ccff97Zi
Well, if you still have the U16, no harm giving it a try to see if it works for your system.  It works for me without problems thus far.  
Enjoy listening!


----------



## ProLoL

I had both the SU2 and U16, I do prefer the sound of the U16 but the SU2 is not bad.


----------



## Roland68

Can someone tell me where the difference between firmware 1.61 and 1.61NFB is?


----------



## JaMo

Roland68 said:


> Can someone tell me where the difference between firmware 1.61 and 1.61NFB is?


Not really. The 1.61NFB firmware is the only firmware I find working flawlessly and sounding good. I am using Linux (ALSA) players. I have no experience with Windows.
/Jan


----------



## Roland68 (Mar 23, 2021)

JaMo said:


> Not really. The 1.61NFB firmware is the only firmware I find working flawlessly and sounding good. I am using Linux (ALSA) players. I have no experience with Windows.
> /Jan


Ok, then I'll play the 1.61NFB on it now.

I ran the U16 on a Mac and wanted to get an X16 Dac.


----------



## domiji

I get the info from Gustard directly that the NFB Version is specially optimized for MAC and Linux Systems.

Gustard told me 2 weeks ago that they don't plan to release further updates because they think 1.61 and 1.61 NFB is "perfect".


----------



## Roland68

domiji said:


> I get the info from Gustard directly that the NFB Version is specially optimized for MAC and Linux Systems.
> 
> Gustard told me 2 weeks ago that they don't plan to release further updates because they think 1.61 and 1.61 NFB is "perfect".


Thank you for this info, then I don't need to test the other versions.
I had also received the information from Gustard that they were not developing the firmware for the U16 any further.


----------



## Roland68

Does anyone know which i2s setting I need in the U16 for a Sabaj D5 DAC?
I would tap "i2s Normal" on the Sabaj and "GSD" on the U16, but I'm not sure.


----------



## JaMo

Yes, GSD
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sab...analog-converter.904056/page-16#post-15402106
/Jan


----------



## Roland68

JaMo said:


> Yes, GSD
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sab...analog-converter.904056/page-16#post-15402106
> /Jan


Thanks Jan,
I didn't see that in the Sabaj D5 thread.


----------



## Louisiana

Sorry if the question has already been asked, but can the display be dimmed or switched off somehow?


----------



## FredA

Louisiana said:


> Sorry if the question has already been asked, but can the display be dimmed or switched off somehow?


No.


----------



## Louisiana (May 8, 2021)

Unfortunately, the U16 doesn't work for me.
It runs for an hour or less, then there are dropouts - I have tested firmware so far:

1.40
1.40 PSA
1.58
1.61 & 1.61. NFB
1.77

The source is a Raspberry Pi4, with Volumio.
DAC is the Gustard X16.
If I connect the RPi4 directly to the X16, everything is fine.
Cable is an HDMI from AQ.

Anyone have an idea?


----------



## JaMo

Louisiana said:


> Unfortunately, the U16 doesn't work for me.
> It runs for an hour or less, then there are dropouts - I have tested firmware so far:
> 
> 1.40
> ...


Flash on 1.61NFB. Download from here: https://onedrive.live.com/?id=636DC4E8060D66A1!380&cid=636DC4E8060D66A1
GSD setting.
/Jan


----------



## boxerlc

Louisiana said:


> Unfortunately, the U16 doesn't work for me.
> It runs for an hour or less, then there are dropouts - I have tested firmware so far:
> 
> 1.40
> ...


Did you buy it new? Return it and get Singxer su-2.
I owned U16 for a year and had terrible experience with it. It doesn’t have a single firmware that is bug free. The designer said U16’s Linux support is poor, but the windows support not well neither. Look for my history post in this thread for detail.
Gustard has abandoned the ES8620 USB solution in all their later products and gone back using XMOS. That proves everything.


----------



## Louisiana

boxerlc said:


> Did you buy it new? Return it and get Singxer su-2.
> I owned U16 for a year and had terrible experience with it. It doesn’t have a single firmware that is bug free. The designer said U16’s Linux support is poor, but the windows support not well neither. Look for my history post in this thread for detail.
> Gustard has abandoned the ES8620 USB solution in all their later products and gone back using XMOS. That proves everything.


Thank you!
Yes, new from Audiophonics.
Maybe is the best way, to change it.
Will write a E-Mail to the Support from Audiophonics, and we will see 


JaMo said:


> Flash on 1.61NFB.


Did it before, just forgot it in the post above.


----------



## Louisiana

Someone wrote in the thread that the best firmware would be 1.41, but I can't find it - does someone have it?


----------



## FredA

Louisiana said:


> Thank you!
> Yes, new from Audiophonics.
> Maybe is the best way, to change it.
> Will write a E-Mail to the Support from Audiophonics, and we will see
> ...


Consider the audio-gd di20.


----------



## ESL57

Louisiana said:


> Someone wrote in the thread that the best firmware would be 1.41, but I can't find it - does someone have it?


The U16 is very prone to crashes, especially it does not like changes in resolution or type of music file (going from a PCM file to a DSD file), Gustard had to put an automatic reset system to avoid these crashes, there is a firmware 1.72 In addition to eliminating the internal bridge to multiply by 2 the frequency of the clocks, these two things I have not done yet to see if the problem improves, what I currently do is make playlists of a single type of resolution, although not believe this eliminates the possibility of crashes for sure.


----------



## ESL57

Louisiana said:


> Unfortunately, the U16 doesn't work for me.
> It runs for an hour or less, then there are dropouts - I have tested firmware so far:
> 
> 1.40
> ...


1.72 version.....
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GZcdzkL9f6Ajfa8snryEI8l7ccff97Zi


----------



## Louisiana

ESL57 said:


> 1.72 version.....
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GZcdzkL9f6Ajfa8snryEI8l7ccff97Zi



Thank you!
I have just switched from the RPi4 to the 3B +, and what can I say, it has been going through for 2 hours without any problems!


----------



## ESL57

To those who still keep their Gustard U16 and did not get rid of it, and are no longer in the warranty period, try to remove the bridge to double the frequency of the clocks, I have gained a lot in stability, I still have the 1.61NFB firmware, it is easy, fast and simple, if it does not improve, put it back. I keep it with me even for its sound, not for its reliability and accuracy which are its weak point.


----------



## PLGA

mcluxun said:


> Here's what I got for myself: Stanford Research PRS10 Rubidium clock
> <-130 (10Hz), <-140 (100Hz), <-150 (1kHz)


Hello
First of all, I'm late sending this message, I know, but I've just read your post.

From the phase noise you mentioned, this master clock seems a very good option as I believe it can be found for about 500 U$S.

Some questions:

- Is it a plug and play clock or does it need an aditional product to function? I mean, LPS, connections, adapters, case, etc.

- I believe it has 10 Mhz outputs, how many? 50 or 75 ohms?

- Have you test it against any other good master clock? 

- Would you recomend it?

Thank you!


----------



## zeblo69

Hi guys. I want to share my experience with U16. Like most of us I encountered several firmware issues but now I'm quite satisfied with sound and stability using 1.61NFB. The only issue is sometimes when playing playlists with different sample rates, especially when jumping between pcm and dsd. Bu I can live with it!
Moreover I'm currently using the BG7BTL external clock with satisfaction (in my opinion black, dynamics and top/bottom range has improved).
Here's my setup:
Core i7 Acer laptop running Euphony Stylus player > Qed new reference usb cable > U16 (with BG7BTL 50 ohm clock + 50 ohm bnc HangTon cable > iis hdmi custom made pure silver cable > Topping D90 Mqa > Qed reference xlr cable > Yamaha A-S2100 > Focal 30th Anniversary floorstanding speakers coupled with Rel T5i sub.


----------



## ESL57 (May 15, 2021)

I have been observing the sporadic blockages of the U16 for some time, one thing that suffers is an inefficient system to eliminate interference and noise from the AC source, you can see, a lighting switch that is activated, or a motor of an electrical appliance etc, it may be enough for a crash, I am implementing in my unit an internal enhancement of the AC input with better filters and some more details, when the implementation is done I will give the results here. This sounds good for what it's worth, I'm going to give it a try even before looking for something more expensive.


----------



## Dailydrive

ESL57 said:


> 1.72 version.....
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GZcdzkL9f6Ajfa8snryEI8l7ccff97Zi





I followed the link but could anyone advise which is the 1.72 version to select ????  Thank you


----------



## ESL57

Dailydrive said:


> I followed the link but could anyone advise which is the 1.72 version to select ????  Thank you


The first file is the firmware .rom, (GU16V1_72REL.rom) follow the instructions for updates that are in pdf file


----------



## Dailydrive

Many many Thanks or your help ....  may i know if ver 1.72 can support on windows 7 pro (sadly i'm still using on my notebook)?   is 1.72 a beta firmware ? Just got a used U16 for cheap that i have in mind to hook up a prelove preamp DAC i have been eyeing ...


----------



## ESL57

Dailydrive said:


> Many many Thanks or your help ....  may i know if ver 1.72 can support on windows 7 pro (sadly i'm still using on my notebook)?   is 1.72 a beta firmware ? Just got a used U16 for cheap that i have in mind to hook up a prelove preamp DAC i have been eyeing ...


The important thing is that you can install different versions of firmware as many times as you want, I recommend that you try for yourself the one that works best for your operating system and dac, what some users works well for others may not.


----------



## Dailydrive

ESL57 said:


> The important thing is that you can install different versions of firmware as many times as you want, I recommend that you try for yourself the one that works best for your operating system and dac, what some users works well for others may not.


That's so true about testing. Good thing I didn't spent a lot on it, with main purpose to connect via usb output from my notebook to coaxial input on my DAC preamp 

A quick check - the output option on U16 include Bnc spdif. 
So I have to look specifically for spdif cable with Bnc connector on one end to coaxial connector on the other, right? 
Any setting on U16 with this setup? 

Sorry if it's a stupid question, cause I only connect via USB all this while, never own spdif cable or connect via spdif before. 😁


----------



## bruiselee

is there a place that consolidates all the different firmware ?
seems like its all over the place...


----------



## denti

So is this even worth getting? I have a Gustard X20 and would like to try DSD512. Would there be sonic benefits to adding the U16 or is it too unstable?


----------



## soumya.banerjee

ESL57 said:


> I have been observing the sporadic blockages of the U16 for some time, one thing that suffers is an inefficient system to eliminate interference and noise from the AC source, you can see, a lighting switch that is activated, or a motor of an electrical appliance etc, it may be enough for a crash, I am implementing in my unit an internal enhancement of the AC input with better filters and some more details, when the implementation is done I will give the results here. This sounds good for what it's worth, I'm going to give it a try even before looking for something more expensive.


I noticed this issue too. Switching on/off any inductive load could potentially make U16 reboot. The 470uF x 2 filters seemed insufficient. Replaced them with Nichicon 3300uF x 2. Problem solved.


----------



## Giru

denti said:


> So is this even worth getting? I have a Gustard X20 and would like to try DSD512. Would there be sonic benefits to adding the U16 or is it too unstable?


Unless you're getting a used one, the model has been discontinued by the manufacturer. They'll be launching an upgraded version soon (U18 from what I hear). I just hope it's better than the U16.


----------



## sanvara

Has anyone compared the Gustard U16 to the U18 model? I can't find reviews of U18.


----------



## Dailydrive (Nov 12, 2021)

I have a question needing advice as i'm no good at technical
Specs on U16 WCK/SPDIF digital output at 24 bits 44.1k-384k

If connecting U16 to old DAC like Stax DAC Talent on 20-bit PCM63 with 3 sampling freq in 48k, 44.1k & 32k, any technical advise of foreseeable issues in connection via BNC (U16 output) to Coaxial (input DAC) ?


----------



## JaMo (Nov 13, 2021)

Dailydrive said:


> I have a question needing advice as i'm no good at technical
> Specs on U16 WCK/SPDIF digital output at 24 bits 44.1k-384k
> 
> If connecting U16 to old DAC like Stax DAC Talent on 20-bit PCM63 with 3 sampling freq in 48k, 44.1k & 32k, any technical advise of foreseeable issues in connection via BNC (U16 output) to Coaxial (input DAC) ?


The U16 doesn't limit the input sample rates, it just passing them through. You could maybe limit the sample rate (resample) in Your player software to 44.1 or 48kHz. The out put signals are standard and with good quality so You should end up with a working solution and maybe a smile
/Jan


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## JaMo

sanvara said:


> Has anyone compared the Gustard U16 to the U18 model? I can't find reviews of U18.


Don't know but I will have the opportunity in a while. I ordered the U18 yesterday and I have two well working U16's running.. So I will post a report/review when possible
/Jan


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## Dailydrive

JaMo said:


> The U16 doesn't limit the input sample rates, it just passing them through. You could maybe limit the sample rate (resample) in Your player software to 44.1 or 48kHz. The out put signals are standard and with good quality so You should end up with a working solution and maybe a smile
> /Jan


Hi JaMo, thank you for your reply and hope that the *digital* output signal from U16 are standard and acceptable to the Talent DAC.

My concern was from an old post (2012 in this forum) in which someone had issue locking on the incoming digital signal from his AGD-DI to Stax DAC Talent even in non upsampling, and there's uncertainty if its digital output signal related or something else like mismatch output voltage.

I do hope to end with a smile for a taste of the older multibits DAC, but the potential tech issues had me rethink if worth a bid.


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## denti

JaMo said:


> Don't know but I will have the opportunity in a while. I ordered the U18 yesterday and I have two well working U16's running.. So I will post a report/review when possible
> /Jan


If you don’t want the U16 after your upgrade let me know


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## JaMo

The Gustard U18
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gustard-u18.960682/
/Jan


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## chinprada

ESL57 said:


> To those who still keep their Gustard U16 and did not get rid of it, and are no longer in the warranty period, try to remove the bridge to double the frequency of the clocks, I have gained a lot in stability, I still have the 1.61NFB firmware, it is easy, fast and simple, if it does not improve, put it back. I keep it with me even for its sound, not for its reliability and accuracy which are its weak point.


Hi, can I ask is this lifting up the jumper and put it back only attach with 1 pin leg?
Does this help with internal clock or external clock ??


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## chinprada

ESL57 said:


> I have been observing the sporadic blockages of the U16 for some time, one thing that suffers is an inefficient system to eliminate interference and noise from the AC source, you can see, a lighting switch that is activated, or a motor of an electrical appliance etc, it may be enough for a crash, I am implementing in my unit an internal enhancement of the AC input with better filters and some more details, when the implementation is done I will give the results here. This sounds good for what it's worth, I'm going to give it a try even before looking for something more expensive.


Hi, I am interested doing this, do you mind sharing what have you done internally to improve the sound?


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## PLGA

Hi guys. 
I'm selling my Gustard U16 as I have now an Audio-GD DI-20.

Maybe I could sell it for about $230/250 shipping included. If anyone is interested, send me a PM and I can ask for the specific shipping cost to confirm.

It's in mint condition.


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## denti

Can someone confirm this will work without problems with my X20. Thanks!


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## rafabro

denti said:


> Can someone confirm this will work without problems with my X20. Thanks!


Gustard X20? Of course it will


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## involve (May 23, 2022)

Hi

Are there U16 + C16 users here?

It doesn't work for me. I tried all the outputs from C16 and in any configuration the U16 does not want to switch to an external clock.


Any ideas?


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## RRM1

involve said:


> Hi
> 
> Are there U16 + C16 users here?
> 
> ...


Push and hold the DBCSEL button until the  OSC (top left) displays EXT.


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## involve

RRM1 said:


> Push and hold the DBCSEL button until the  OSC (top left) displays EXT.


I checked it before, it is not responding.
A short press of the OSCSEL should change the INT / EXT clock mode.
Unfortunately, there is still INT.
A long press of the OSCSEL probably changes the output mode of I2S (GSD, PSA, LKS, HOLO, LRCK)


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## RRM1

involve said:


> I checked it before, it is not responding.
> A short press of the OSCSEL should change the INT / EXT clock mode.
> Unfortunately, there is still INT.
> A long press of the OSCSEL probably changes the output mode of I2S (GSD, PSA, LKS, HOLO, LRCK)


Are you using a 50 ohm BNC cable?


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## involve

Yes, but tomorrow I will check with a different cable.


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## mrjayviper

Does anyone know where to find the latest firmware? Thanks


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## JaMo

Here is a link to a kind Head-fier ( @DACLadder ) providing some helpful stuff. https://onedrive.live.com/?id=636DC4E8060D66A1!380&cid=636DC4E8060D66A1

The best firmware is the 1.61NFB . Good Luck 
/Jan


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## mrjayviper

I plan to use it with a RPi3B (using PiCorePlayer)


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## JaMo

It works like a charm. I have been running piCorePlayer on 3B, 3B+ and 4B with the U16's. With 1.61NFB You are fine.


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## mrjayviper

Will I get a more stable operation if using coax/AeS?

Reading the last few pages, seems the some of the problems stems from PCM/DSd (which I assume (maybe incorrectly) that the user is using the HDMI port?))

Thanks again


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## JaMo

No not any better than with HDMI. To get a full benefit of the two (rpi3-U16) use I2S over USB and i2S via HDMI to the dac


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## Roland68

involve said:


> I checked it before, it is not responding.
> A short press of the OSCSEL should change the INT / EXT clock mode.
> Unfortunately, there is still INT.
> A long press of the OSCSEL probably changes the output mode of I2S (GSD, PSA, LKS, HOLO, LRCK)


The clock is only switched to EXT when the U16 detects a clean signal.
Otherwise nothing happens.


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## JaMo

Roland68 said:


> The clock is only switched to EXT when the U16 detects a clean signal.
> Otherwise nothing happens.


That is very true. The/A big advantage with the U16 compared to earlier gears are the very good internal XO's and the option to use an good/very good external oscillator. And it works great! Because of that I upgraded to the U18 I step better in all aspects. The Gustard Team is really good. I also went with their X26Pro dac because of this


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## Roland68

involve said:


> I checked it before, it is not responding.
> A short press of the OSCSEL should change the INT / EXT clock mode.
> Unfortunately, there is still INT.
> A long press of the OSCSEL probably changes the output mode of I2S (GSD, PSA, LKS, HOLO, LRCK)


I just tried it with a $40 10MHz module and a simple BNC cable on the U16.
The U16 can be switched to OSC:EXT immediately.
Do you already have a solution?


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## involve

Roland68 said:


> I just tried it with a $40 10MHz module and a simple BNC cable on the U16.
> The U16 can be switched to OSC:EXT immediately.
> Do you already have a solution?


It turned out that the clock did not work, I gave it back.


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## khoihd

PLGA said:


> Hi guys.
> I'm selling my Gustard U16 as I have now an Audio-GD DI-20.
> 
> Maybe I could sell it for about $230/250 shipping included. If anyone is interested, send me a PM and I can ask for the specific shipping cost to confirm.
> ...


Is the di-20 as warm and musical as the u16?


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## FredA

khoihd said:


> Is the di-20 as warm and musical as the u16?


I would say it sounds fuller. It stages better. Clear upgrade. I have heard both many times in my friend's setup. I have been able to compare the HE version in my own setup. The u16 is no competion.


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## Fibre101

I decided to downgrade my firmware today like I've done in the past and as I was upgrading, the u16 decided to disconnect and now my u16 doesnt work anymore. Not sure if anyone had this issue but my u16 does not connect to my pc and the display is blank. Is there a way to reset it or is it completely bricked? I've changed firmwares a number of times and this has never happened. The u16 is completely unusable.


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## JaMo (Sep 26, 2022)

Fibre101 said:


> I decided to downgrade my firmware today like I've done in the past and as I was upgrading, the u16 decided to disconnect and now my u16 doesnt work anymore. Not sure if anyone had this issue but my u16 does not connect to my pc and the display is blank. Is there a way to reset it or is it completely bricked? I've changed firmwares a number of times and this has never happened. The u16 is completely unusable.


I am afraid You have bricked the device. Years back I did some recoveries of bricked DVD players after some testing of edited firmwares. Some of them worked fine but sometimes things went south.. The "unbricking" was done by first detecting/finding the serial interfaces (RX, TX, GND and +3.3V/+5V pins or holes) on the circuit board and then by establish a serial connection to the computer (PC). I am sure there are useful info out on the Internet about this. Today computers doesn't have those serial interfaces but USB-ports works fine with USB to serial adapters. The push-flash softwares was pretty primitive but worked.

I don't have the skills or the softwares left but I am sure a similar procedure could be done on the U16. If You are into these trials I can assure You that it is very rewarding to succeed and see a dead thing reborn and coming to life again.

You may have another option I think You should test as a first try. There is a switch on the circuit board that is marked with FW1-FW2. This switch is located between the optical input and the oscillators. (See picture, yellow ring down to the right)

I think You should cut the power to the U16, then open it and push this FW1-FW2 switch to its alternative position and try to power the device on again.

Good luck, fingers crossed.
/Jan


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## Fibre101

JaMo said:


> I am afraid You have bricked the device. Years back I did some recoveries of bricked DVD players after some testing of edited firmwares. Some of them worked fine but sometimes things went south.. The "unbricking" was done by first detecting/finding the serial interfaces (RX, TX, GND and +3.3V/+5V pins or holes) on the circuit board and then by establish a serial connection to the computer (PC). I am sure there are useful info out on the Internet about this. Today computers doesn't have those serial interfaces but USB-ports works fine with USB to serial adapters. The push-flash softwares was pretty primitive but worked.
> 
> I don't have the skills or the softwares left but I am sure a similar procedure could be done on the U16. If You are into these trials I can assure You that it is very rewarding to succeed and see a dead thing reborn and coming to life again.
> 
> ...


Wow. it actually works again. Thank you JaMo! Is the switch made for backup? Im assuming it is. I switched it to FW2 and it works perfectly again!


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## JaMo

Fibre101 said:


> Wow. it actually works again. Thank you JaMo! Is the switch made for backup? Im assuming it is. I switched it to FW2 and it works perfectly again!


I am glad it worked out for You. Congrats/J


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## Metron

So, after a few years on the market and 111 pages on Head-Fi, what's the verdict for U16 in regard to pops/clicks/interruptions on the audio signal? How often, under what circumstances and for which ports, and what's the cause? Yes, I know, U18 has replaced it, but if this is not resolved with U16, U18 is not to be trusted, especially since it's costing almost double.


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## FredA

Metron said:


> So, after a few years on the market and 111 pages on Head-Fi, what's the verdict for U16 in regard to pops/clicks/interruptions on the audio signal? How often, under what circumstances and for which ports, and what's the cause? Yes, I know, U18 has replaced it, but if this is not resolved with U16, U18 is not to be trusted, especially since it's costing almost double.


It is solved with the u18. It is worth the extra money. The u16 is still a hit or miss.


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## Metron

FredA said:


> It is solved with the u18. It is worth the extra money. The u16 is still a hit or miss.


I've read reports of the same problem with the U18 unit...


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## FredA

Metron said:


> I've read reports of the same problem with the U18 unit...


Firsr time i hear this. Is this coming from the u18 thread? 

Another option is the di20.


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## Metron

FredA said:


> Firsr time i hear this. Is this coming from the u18 thread?
> 
> Another option is the di20.


That's right, it's making me nervous, the U18 is much more expensive. Alternative could be the Matrix X-SPDIF 2 or 3.


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## FredA

Metron said:


> That's right, it's making me nervous, the U18 is much more expensive. Alternative could be the Matrix X-SPDIF 2 or 3.


The u18 and di20 likely better, soundwise. You can hookup an ext. clock too with either.


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## Metron

FredA said:


> The u18 and di20 likely better, soundwise. You can hookup an ext. clock too with either.


I don't question Gustard DDCs' sound performance, I'm questioning their reliability and QC.
I'm not fimiliar with di20, what's the full maker and model name? Is it a DDC?


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## FredA

Metron said:


> I don't question Gustard DDCs' sound performance, I'm questioning their reliability and QC.
> I'm not fimiliar with di20, what's the full maker and model name? Is it a DDC?


Audio-gd Di-20. It is very stable and a great performer.


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## Metron

FredA said:


> Audio-gd Di-20. It is very stable and a great performer.


Ah, OK, no thanks, that's a very expensive unit, more than double the U18's cost, we're reaching the stratosphere now...


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## FredA

545usd, and there is 6% off at the moment. But handling/shipping/paypal fees are not included.


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## Metron

FredA said:


> 545usd, and there is 6% off at the moment. But handling/shipping/paypal fees are not included.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002640400785.html


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## FredA

Metron said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002640400785.html


Nobody buys from ali. Buy direct from audio-gd

http://www.audio-gd.com/En audio-gd.htm


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## Metron (Nov 11, 2022)

FredA said:


> Nobody buys from ali. Buy direct from audio-gd
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/En audio-gd.htm


I wouldn't buy a DAC/DDC/Amp from Ali, it's just to show an indicative price. The link you sent me is a from a site so messed up I would not buy anything of value, sorry. Especially the Underwood Hi-Fi one (US) is a disgrace...


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## FredA

Your money. The product sounds great. You don't  pay for translation or fancy website or marketing. And customer service is top notch (audio-gd's) though not in the best  English. Kingwa is always very helpful.


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## Metron (Nov 11, 2022)

FredA said:


> Your money. The product sounds great. You don't  pay for translation or fancy website or marketing. And customer service is top notch (audio-gd's) though not in the best  English. Kingwa is always very helpful.


I don't doubt that it might be a good sounding product (when and if it works). However, with a product comes a reliable company who builds it, and retailers who value their customers. Crappy looking commercial websites that are potentially unsafe and prone to cause order "mishaps" belong to retailers who do not care much - if at all - about their customers. A commercial website has to be perfect in terms of data integrity, provide clear and reliable product information, and have an acceptable minimum of usability; it has nothing to do with "fancy", these are critical parameters. So, after browsing the manufacturer's website and the US official retailer, I'd pass big time on Audio-gd.


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## FredA

Metron said:


> I don't doubt that it might be a good sounding product (when and if it works). However, with a product comes a reliable company who builds it, and retailers who value their customers. Crappy looking commercial websites that are potentially unsafe and prone to cause order "mishaps" belong to retailers who do not care much - if at all - about their customers. A commercial website has to be perfect in terms of data integrity, provide clear and reliable product information, and have an acceptable minimum of usability; it has nothing to do with "fancy", these are critical parameters. So, after browsing the manufacturer's website and the US official retailer, I'd pass big time on Audio-gd.


To order, you ask for a quote by email. You pay with paypal. So your data is safe AFAIC. Safer than with ali i would argue. I am not trying to convince you. Go for the u18, it's a very good choice if i rely on a friend of mine and on the u18 thread.


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## Metron

FredA said:


> To order, you ask for a quote by email. You pay with paypal. So your data is safe AFAIC. Safer than with ali i would argue. I am not trying to convince you. Go for the u18, it's a very good choice if i rely on a friend of mine and on the u18 thread.


Paypal holds financial data, the retailer holds the rest and I wouldn't trust such a retailer to hold any personal data of mine.
I'll keep checking the U18 thread, it looks like a good product on paper, but I'm not conviced yet on its reliability given the company's history, maybe there'll be a resolution/determination on these potential issues. Otherwise, no problem, the competition is fierce.
Many thanks for your time, replies and consideration.


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## FredA

Metron said:


> Paypal holds financial data, the retailer holds the rest and I wouldn't trust such a retailer to hold any personal data of mine.
> I'll keep checking the U18 thread, it looks like a good product on paper, but I'm not conviced yet on its reliability given the company's history, maybe there'll be a resolution/determination on these potential issues. Otherwise, no problem, the competition is fierce.
> Many thanks for your time, replies and consideration.


Good point. Paypal policies are disgusting, including the ridiculous fees. I use it very rarely now and will eventually get rid of it.


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## FredA (Nov 11, 2022)

Just realized, you can buy the di20 there at a very good price (you don't pay the European tax if outside Europe)

https://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/inte...amanero-accusilicon-32bit-384khz-p-14191.html

The voltage is configurable.


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## boxerlc (Nov 14, 2022)

Metron said:


> So, after a few years on the market and 111 pages on Head-Fi, what's the verdict for U16 in regard to pops/clicks/interruptions on the audio signal? How often, under what circumstances and for which ports, and what's the cause? Yes, I know, U18 has replaced it, but if this is not resolved with U16, U18 is not to be trusted, especially since it's costing almost double.


The problem is with the ESS interface chip, U16 is garbage that cannot be fixed , because you can’t change the ESS chip. They released U18 to replace U16, using a XMOS interface chip. That’s their ‘fix’ to U16. Sad for the U16 user, but there’s nothing they can do about U16.


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## Fibre101

boxerlc said:


> The problem is with the ESS interface chip, U16 is garbage that cannot be fixed , because you can’t change the ESS chip. They released U18 to replace U16, using a XMOS interface chip. That’s their ‘fix’ to U16. Sad for the U16 user, but there’s nothing they can do about U16.


Yeah, its pretty bad but I still use it with its annoying quirks and the performance is great when its working well. Still some dropouts here and there but still pushing.


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## Metron

boxerlc said:


> The problem is with the ESS interface chip, U16 is garbage that cannot be fixed , because you can’t change the ESS chip. They released U18 to replace U16, using a XMOS interface chip. That’s their ‘fix’ to U16. Sad for the U16 user, but there’s nothing they can do about U16.


So, the question becomes, is the U18 free of these defects?


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## boxerlc

Metron said:


> So, the question becomes, is the U18 free of these defects?


Should be, I personally haven't heard any issue being reported yet. If I don't have su-2, I probably would give it a try. The old x26 had the same ESS USB interface chip, it's replaced too. XMOS is pretty stable.


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## Metron

boxerlc said:


> Should be, I personally haven't heard any issue being reported yet. If I don't have su-2, I probably would give it a try. The old x26 had the same ESS USB interface chip, it's replaced too. XMOS is pretty stable.


In the U18 thread there are some references to similar issues. The cause of instability could very well be beyond or irrelevant to XMOS.


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## boxerlc

Metron said:


> In the U18 thread there are some references to similar issues. The cause of instability could very well be beyond or irrelevant to XMOS.


Could be, maybe consider getting the su-2, I use Titans audio Helen with it, no problem at all.


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## Metron

boxerlc said:


> Could be, maybe consider getting the su-2, I use Titans audio Helen with it, no problem at all.


Does the SU-2 have galvanically isolated USB input?


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## boxerlc

Metron said:


> Does the SU-2 have galvanically isolated USB input?


Singxer advertises with the term full isolation( ground isolation), maybe it means galvanic isolation.


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## Metron

boxerlc said:


> Singxer advertises with the term full isolation( ground isolation), maybe it means galvanic isolation.


"Full isolation (ground isolation)" of the USB input?


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## boxerlc

Metron said:


> "Full isolation (ground isolation)" of the USB input?


Yes, why don’t look it up yourself


----------



## Metron

boxerlc said:


> Yes, why don’t look it up yourself


I have but it's not clear; marketing expressions often veil the facts.


----------



## wwmhf

Metron said:


> I don't question Gustard DDCs' sound performance, I'm questioning their reliability and QC.
> I'm not fimiliar with di20, what's the full maker and model name? Is it a DDC?


I have several Gustard devices, so far they all work normally.


----------



## Fibre101

wwmhf said:


> I have several Gustard devices, so far they all work normally.


Does yours reboot randomly?


----------



## wwmhf

Fibre101 said:


> Does yours reboot randomly?


I presently have two U16s, none of them gave me any trouble.


----------



## wwmhf

I also found a good USB does help U16. I notice that the Monolith USB Digital Audio Cable - USB A to USB B (sold on amazon and other place) works noticeably better than generic USB cables.


----------



## wwmhf

wwmhf said:


> I presently have two U16s, none of them gave me any trouble.


I also used U12 which worked without issues for me. I sold my U12s and I have been using U16s for some time now.


----------



## Fibre101

wwmhf said:


> I also used U12 which worked without issues for me. I sold my U12s and I have been using U16s for some time now.


I use a USB regen with a linear power supply with great results. Also 1.61 nfb is stable and rarely reboots like it did before with previous firmwares. Do you use windows as your source?


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## wwmhf

Fibre101 said:


> I use a USB regen with a linear power supply with great results. Also 1.61 nfb is stable and rarely reboots like it did before with previous firmwares. Do you use windows as your source?


yes, I use windows 10 and windows 11 with foobar2000, but sometimes musicbee


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## m-i-c-k-e-y (Dec 7, 2022)

Bought me a Lenovo P360 Ultra for my bedroom workstation.










Specs:





Current station in my bedroom. Head-fi equipment on my sig.


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## LowBeat91

Could someone tell which toggle i have to switch on the Gustard to match with Holo Audio Dacs?


----------



## Fibre101

LowBeat91 said:


> Could someone tell which toggle i have to switch on the Gustard to match with Holo Audio Dacs?


I can't remember which of the two buttons but you hold down down one if them and the left upper corner, the mode switches to psa,gsd,holo,lkh.


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## wwmhf

LowBeat91 said:


> Could someone tell which toggle i have to switch on the Gustard to match with Holo Audio Dacs?


The one on left. Holding it for a couple of seconds will change it to the next choice


----------

