# What is the difference between the Piccolo cable and Piccolino cable?



## tourneychamp23

Jw what the difference is between these two cables? Aren't these suppose to be two of the best sounding cables? Why haven't they been given as much attention as the twag?


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## Uncle Erik

Why don't you ask the manufacturer for measurements and frequency response graphs that show the difference between the two cables? The response should be enlightening.


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## Lenni

Quote:


tourneychamp23 said:


> Jw what the difference is between these two cables? Aren't these suppose to be two of the best sounding cables? Why haven't they been given as much attention as the twag?


 
   
   
  the word _Piccolo_ is Italian for small, little, short, etc. (depending on the context used). _Piccolino_ is a diminutive of _Piccolo_, which can take the meaning of too small, teeny, but essentially means the same thing.
   
  on their web site there's not such a product named _Piccolino_ (unless their referring to the Micro series). therefore I'm guessing someone has mistaken the words, and they're referring to the same cable...?


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## ManAtWork

Piccolo is one of the famous audiophile cable series from Crystal Cable, a Netherland company. Its founder is the wife of another famous audiophile cable company Siltech's founder. Thus, they share some of the advanced cable technologies.
   
  Piccolino is a headphone cable product line from Null Audio of Singapore, which are re-terminated with the Crystal Cable's Piccolo. At first, Null Audio used the Piccolo to name their headphone cables directly, and later changed the product line to Piccolino to avoid the trademark violation issue.
   
  Since the Piccolino cables are made with the real audiophile cable, this makes Piccolino becomes the best heaphone/connection cable product in headphile market. I am one of the users, both Crystal Cable and Null Audio's Piccolino.
   
  Hope this can answer your question.


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## Lenni

Quote: 





manatwork said:


> ...
> 
> Since the Piccolino cables are made with the real audiophile cable....


 


  what do you mean by that... is the Null Audio's Piccolino in fact Crystal Cable's Piccolo?


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## ManAtWork

Quote: 





lenni said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, I think they bought the Crystal Cable, and cut them then re-terminate for using on headphone and IC. Because I have side by side compared them, they are the same.


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## Lenni

found this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/385593/ultimate-livewires-cable-the-piccolino


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## Garage1217

Reviews like that make me want to bang my head into the wall. Guaranteed without question this guy could not tell the difference between lamp cord and this fancy cable in the real world under A/B back to back testing yet when he plugs it in, magically he can tell this huge vast difference.
   
  To the OP, the difference = nothing to the human ears even vs lamp cord as long as both are terminated properly and making good contact.


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## tourneychamp23

$1,000 for a cable is pretty steep even for audiophiles. My jh-16s were only a few hundred more.


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## tourneychamp23

Is there anyone else out there that can give us their impressions. I'm looking for new cables for my iems and amp-iphone


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## scootermafia

Piccolo/ino is a coaxial style (for maximum smallness) cable with a gold/silver alloy center stranded core, insulating layers, then a stranded silver shield, then a clear jacket.  Moon Audio now has a similar cable (it's black, not clear) with an OCC silver core, OCC silver plated OCC copper shielded, coax portable cable.  Might be worth trying, it appears to be super compact.


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## Jalo

Good jobs showing the difference, Parrots.  Without having to do any critical listening, I clearly can tell the difference in a few minutes of auditioning.  The Piccolino is a piece of art and a technological wonders.  The size is about 24 to 26 awg but it produces tighter bass than my UPOCC copper wires.  It kind of shattered my belief about gauge and bass. 
   
  To Scootermafia, the Moon audio silver Dragon (which I have) is really not similar to the Piccolino in metalurgy, construction and design.  Unlike most silver cables that has that slight brightness (yes including my TWag), the Piccolino is the smoothest silver and gold alloy cable that I have ever heard.  So smooth that it induces very little listening fatigue after long session of listening (like after a 15 hours of transpacific flight).


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## Jalo

I may be wrong but I thought the silver mesh performed a function also (i.e. as a ground) so I am just taking the whole cable into consideration.


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## Jalo

Quote: 





uncle erik said:


> Why don't you ask the manufacturer for measurements and frequency response graphs that show the difference between the two cables? The response should be enlightening.


 
  I did something even better, I asked my brain for measurements and frequency response to show the difference between three cables, and the response was...Yes, very enlightening


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## Lenni

this is confusing. are you saying that the Piccolino (first picture) is not made by Crystal Cables? if is not, then who did - Null Audio? not a chance. the cable shown in the first picture doesn't look something a diyer, even with some skill, would be able to do without specific machinery - not to mention the special alloys. on the other hand, the the cable in the second picture (Piccolo) looks like a diyer with some skill could be able to replicate (fake?) like Null Audio. of course, more info would be required before coming to any conclusion.
   
  I think you've the cable confused. the cable in the first picture is definitely made by CC.
   
  Quote: 





parrots said:


> Null audio do not sell Piccolino cables, the cable he is selling for $600+ is made of the much stiffer piccolo wire which also don't sound nowhere near as good as the Piccolino, as far as I am aware, none of the cables on crystal cables site are made of the Piccolino wire.


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## Jalo

Lenni, just for your information, the Crystal Piccolino was made in limited amount by Crystal Cable and sold by another reseller exclusively.  However, my understanding is that CC has stopped making the Piccolino.  It was made exclusively for another reseller anyway, that is why when you go to their site you cannot find it listed. And after whatever is made and sold, there will be no more Piccolino. But it is a special and unique cable.


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## Lenni

thanks for the info... that's clearer. I imagined the Piccolino was a re-terminated CC's interconnect Piccolo - I didn't know it was like a limited edition. too bad they don't make it anymore. would it be possible to make HP cables out of interconnect cables? personally I find the current headphone cable 'market' still somewhat limited (it's either copper or silver), and overpriced (imo). there's room from improvement, _and_ business.
   
  I wanna see a $5k headphone cable! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ..._.j/k_


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## Jalo

Quote: 





lenni said:


> thanks for the info... that's clearer. I imagined the Piccolino was a re-terminated CC's interconnect Piccolo - I didn't know it was like a limited edition. too bad they don't make it anymore. would it be possible to make HP cables out of interconnect cables? personally I find the current headphone cable 'market' still somewhat limited (it's either copper or silver), and overpriced (imo). there's room from improvement, _and_ business.
> 
> *I wanna see a $5k headphone cable*!
> 
> ...


 

 And I have just that one to sell you...


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## improvised

FYI:
   
  I hope to clarify what the difference is once and for all.
   
   
  Both of these cables are made by Crystal Cable all though this has been stated I hope to go into a bit more detail about some companies that have been selling this cable and some misleading information that is running around this thread and other websites.
   
   
  First off what is the Piccolino?
   
  The Piccolino is a cable made by Crystal Cable that is exclusively for OEM's use that is why you do not see it on there website.
   
  The Piccolino's outer plastic is Hypoallergenic as it's primary use is for headphones or IEM's.
   
  The Piccolino is made to be more flexible than the Piccolo that is why you see the thin strands in the photos provided on this thread.
   
  The Piccolino is no better nor worse sonically than the Piccolo cable.
   
  The only difference between the Piccolino and the Piccolo is:  A) Hypoallergenic cable  B) Stranded instead of solid core  C) Made for OEM use  D) Not manufactured with connectors
   
  Now to clarify what you see on some websites:
   
  Null Audio:
  http://www.null-audio.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=72&zenid=16o3hld61tt581pi9ad13g11p0
   
  They are using the Piccolo at an inflated price. They bought a few meters of Piccolo from Crystal Cable and without Crystal Cables permission began selling it under the name Crystallino when all it is is a renamed Piccolo cable. They will probably never sell this cable again as Crystal Cable does not sell bulk cable anymore due to lack of quality control and possible abuse of the Crystal Cable name.
   
   
  UncleWilsons:
  http://www.unclewilsons.com/shop/step1.php?number=636
   
  This company sold the genuine Piccolino cable but in my opinion at a very inflated price.
   
   
  With that out of the way now to clarify where you can get this cable and set it up for headphone or iem use.  First off I have seen both of these cables and although the Piccolino is a bit more flexible and unless you have sensitive skin the Piccolo will do just nicely.
   
  To get either what you need to do is go on Crystal Cables website and under there distributors page find your nearest distributor, call them and say that you need to make a special order for Crystal Cable wire some distributors may not have heard of the Piccolino cable that's because most distributors are only dealing with the Piccolo. On your order you need to have them specify that you want the Piccolino cable and not the Piccolo.
   
  You specify what connectors you want i.e 3.5mm jack etc and the length you need as this is a special order, turn around time is apprx 3 weeks.
   
  For instance on my order I asked for two 48in long Piccolino cables solder to a 3.5mm jack at one end and bare stripped wire at the other so I could solder them to JH Audio size pins.
   
  The reason you should ask for the wires to be stripped at one end is because Crystal Cable has a very high precision wire stripping machine which will be a million times better than anything you could do at home. Here is a video that will show this machine:
   
  http://www.podcast.tv/video-episodes/hi-visit-crystal-cable-3398427.html
   
  In all I paid no more than $450 or about e375. That is well below the inflated prices I have been hearing about on these threads and have seen on other websites.
   
  You may need to shop around through a couple of distributors as I found that some US distributors were selling this cable at over $150 more than there European counter parts even when you throw in shipping that's still inflated.
   
  I have no idea why people have been paying ridiculous prices when all you need to do is place a special order with the manufacturer and save a fortune.
   
  These cable are still not cheap but have a very high quality manufacturing process that is unmatched.
   
  I got my information directly from Crystal Cable by simply emailing the company and asking them to clarify the differences of these cables


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## qusp

Quote: 





manatwork said:


> Yes, I think they bought the Crystal Cable, and cut them then re-terminate for using on headphone and IC. Because I have side by side compared them, they are the same.


 
  erm you really dont know what you are talking about, piccolino was and still is a crystal cables product, first named flexible piccolo and then dubbed piccolino as its smaller and thinner, even uses different dielectric and internal structure, they really are not much alike. (i disagree with improvised there, piccolo really isnt very suitable for portable headphone cables at all due to solid core center conductor and thicker sheath),  it is not available anymore afaik and costs about 4 to 5 times as much for an iem cable, that might have something to do with the not getting the attention of others lately. i suppose as above said, they may have soe stocks left themselves, or make to order; but afaik there are no official resellers making headfi specific interconnects and headphone cables using the wire, including wilson.
   
  and yes my m key is playing up
   
  my apologies, i had not seen the last couple posts when i hit send


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## improvised

Quote: 





qusp said:


> (i disagree with improvised there, piccolo really isnt very suitable for portable headphone cables at all due to solid core center conductor and thicker sheath),


 
   
  I've edited my comments to reflect a more balanced and un-confrontational tone so as not to offend anyone.

 The point I'm simply trying to make in regards to solid vs stranded is that although solid is more ideal for interconnects  by no means does it prohibit one from using it with good results on headphones or IEM's.

 Any cable no matter how tough it is will fray split and other wise degrade over time. I have owned shed loads stranded cables that have come undone, frayed or split in one way or the other, ultimately the longevity of the cable comes down to how you use it and how well it's made. A well built solid core Piccolo cable will outlast any run of the mill stranded cable that is unless your taking it with your two fingers and bending over and over and over until it finally breaks.

 Under normal use and I mean wearing the cable from your phones connected to your player that cable will last you years, now if your swinging from a tree and using it to tie down your tent then it won't last.

 As far as "microphonics" I've never had or heard of this issue with the Piccolo cable even with the cable next to sources such as mobile phones or other electrical sources I haven't picked up interference. I've never even seen nor heard issues of "microphonics" with high quality shielded cables. If what your saying is true I would challenge you to show me proof that this is common in quality made shielded cables I simply don't think that exists other than in cheaply made products.

 So I guess I'm left with saying your full of nonsense.


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## qusp

haha its solid core, thats the only reason. i cant post pics here because i'm mot, but i can assure you i have experience with them. i would like to see the numbers on returns for piccolo iem cables, i can tell you it will be much higher than piccolino, which is nigh indestriuctible due to the inner conductor having only 7-8 ~34awg (probably thinner) strands in kapton with soe sort of yellow polymer fiber (not sure what) vs a single solid wire . it is you who clearly doesnt have much experience with making portable headphone cables and have to support  them afterwards, unless there is something you arent telling us, oh person with one post about piccolino with inside knowledge and a direct line to Gabi. solid wire is also much more microphonic, to the point i only offer stranded portable headphone cables and keep solid for home cables. add enough support/strain relief and it becomes thick stiff and/or microphonic, dont add it, the wire perishes over time through repetitive movement, or being bent sharply. now if you think that is nonsense, then i'm sorry i dont know what to say. i gotta say though, you seem to take this awful personally


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## roadcykler

Make your own. Just find the slickest/most high tech looking RCA's, make the cable part as thin as possible but use a covering that no one has used before, look through a lot of cable ads and incorporate some of the best buzz words into your ad, and watch the dough come rolling in. Maybe throw in a couple of reviewer quotes for authenticity. You don't need any measurements, just let your own mind tell you that it's better than anything else out there.  
  Quote: 





lenni said:


> thanks for the info... that's clearer. I imagined the Piccolino was a re-terminated CC's interconnect Piccolo - I didn't know it was like a limited edition. too bad they don't make it anymore. would it be possible to make HP cables out of interconnect cables? personally I find the current headphone cable 'market' still somewhat limited (it's either copper or silver), and overpriced (imo). there's room from improvement, _and_ business.
> 
> I wanna see a $5k headphone cable!
> 
> ...


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## sridhar3

Ugh, what is this crap?  I came to this thread to read about Crystal Cables, and instead you two are mucking up this thread with your childish personal feud.  The internet is serious business.
   
  To get back on topic here, I'm seeing the cables sold out on Null Audio's website, and I'm hearing there's a problem with supply at Unclewilson.  Improvised, the place you got the cable in Holland, would this place happen to have a website from which one could order?  Is there any other place from which to get these?


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## sridhar3

Quote:


parrots said:


> Null audio cable is piccolo and Piccolino and is much stiffer and don't sound as good.
> Uncle Wilson has discontinued this line from the information I was given and sold of the remaining wire they had to someone.
> Good luck getting hold of some.


 
   
  Thanks for the information.


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## Uncle Wilson

Quote: 





parrots said:


> Null audio cable is piccolo and Piccolino and is much stiffer and don't sound as good.
> Uncle Wilson has discontinued this line from the information I was given and sold of the remaining wire they had to someone.
> Good luck getting hold of some.


 

 Hi,
   
  I am intrigued... Whoever gave you that information is totally and absolutely wrong. I wonder where he got it from. There is not an ounce or shred of truth in it.
   
  Regards, Wilson


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## Jalo

Uncle Wilson,  I was the one that told Parrots about that information.  I was in Hong Kong in February and April this year.  I went to your Jaben store in Mong Kok and purchased a Crystal Piccolino for my JH13 in February (I was told only two left at the time) and a Crystal Piccolino for my HD800 just two weeks ago.  I spent several days in the store and have a lot of discussion with Derek and Ken.  I also purchased other items (PB2, several Ibasso hirose interconnect etc).  Your store manager Derek and Ken told me both in February and in April about the above information.  You can verify with them.  They know who I am.  I was told by them that there were two rolls of Piccolino that were ever made and because of the high cost of production, the two rolls were sold off at an audio convention auction.  So whatever that is left is gone there will be no more Piccolino.  I was specifically told that Crystal Kable is not going to make anymore of the Piccolino.  I asked Derek the difference between Piccolo and Piccolino, I was shown a mini to mini interconnect that is very stiff and was told that the piccolo could not be used to make headphone cable because it is too stiff.  I posted this info in your dealer announcement forum.  In fact, if it were not because of my concern that there may not be anymore Piccolino, I would not have rushed to buy the HD800 Piccolino because I wanted to by the Piccolino for my LCD2 and not my HD800.  Because I do not have the connector for the LCD2 at the moment, so I bought the HD800 right away for fear that they may not be around when I get my LCD2 connectors.  If this is inaccurate information distributed by your store, should I return the cable now that they are available on a constant basis?


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## etteoh

It does feel a bit weird reviving a five year old thread but I felt compelled to do so simply because the Piccolino truly is a legendary cable. I am somewhat of a cable aficionado and I own / listened to a fair share of different cables. The thing is, I have for a long time, heard great things about the Piccolino. Crystal Cable in general. Although from an aesthetics point of view, I was never a fan. I am (or was) the kind of guy where bigger is better so I would go goo-goo ga-ga over a pretty-looking, large-than-life 8-conductor cable without even listening to it. Hence the thin-as-hell Piccolino never stood a chance in my books.

  

 I was a happy camper with a flagship 8-conductor silver Litz, UPOCC, cryo (and all that jazz) cable from a company that thou shall not name. Yet, on a fateful afternoon at a local Starbucks joint, I was chilling out over a great cuppa Americano with a close buddy who brought several cables with him. One of them was the Piccolino.

  

 I brushed aside the Piccolino and grabbed the other more exotic looking ones and listened to them eagerly. An hour had gone by and my friend noticed the Piccolino was the only cable I had not listened to. He asked if I had a personal vendetta against Crystal Cable and I had to assure him that I didn’t. I just didn’t think the anorexic-looking Piccolino was going to make a difference so I’d rather not waste my time. My buddy had a tough time convincing me to have a go with the Piccolino and eventually I gave in…I’m glad I did because the rest was history.

  

 From the point I hit the play button on my DAP, I was completely blown away by the sheer musicality of the Piccolino. It had that kind of balance that I would kill / die for! No one could imagine the things that were going inside of my head at the time. I am sure my friend had fun observing my reactions. “What the devil is this cable???”

  

 Music, regardless of genre, was complete, in total harmony. Layer after layer. Depth. Height. Bass definition. Silky, airy highs. Transparency. PRAT. Presentation. While other flagships excelled at one or two things, none was as complete an all-rounder as the Piccolino is. I was hooked on them…no, addicted! Fatal attraction even. In less than 10 minutes, I vividly remember asking my buddy, “Where can I get myself one of these? Tell me. Now!” His reply was “You can’t. They’re no longer made.” At that exact moment, rocks from a cliff fell onto me with total despair…

  

 When I got home, the first thing I did was browsed the different classifieds and all I saw were SOLD, SOLD and more SOLD! Why do this kind of crap keep happening to me??? And just when I thought all hopes were gone, an ad caught my eye – Toxic Piccolino interconnect for sale! Why? Because the owner was moving from portable audio to a desktop one. I got in touch with the seller so fast that Flash would be proud of me and when he confirmed it was still available, I pounced and sealed the deal. I didn’t even give two hoots about the price, that is until the credit card bill came a fortnight later. Still, not even a tinge of buyer’s remorse.

  

 I spent a great deal of time rediscovering my music collection with the Piccolino. Everything under the sun sounded complete…and to think I disregarded it because of aesthetics. I should be ashamed of myself. The one thing I hugely appreciate about the Piccolino is how I can hit Play, sit back and get drawn into the music instantaneously without feeling the need to skip tracks, switch from album to album in an attempt to experience over-the-top sonics – you get my drift. Whether it’s a reference material from an Audiophile pressing, an upbeat pop tune from Selena Gomez, a high definition masterpiece from Hoff Ensemble or Dave Brubeck or even Eagles in native DSD, there was nothing the Piccolino couldn’t convey in raw, captivating emotion.

  

 Every other interconnects I own have since moved to the storage box. I no longer feel the need / have the desire to switch from one interconnect to another. The Piccolino is my do-it-all and never in the history of my foraying into the cable world, did I ever safely, comfortably and confidently label any one cable as my do-it-all regardless of price, make and looks. If you are after musicality over technicality and can put aside aesthetics, like me, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by what the Piccolino can actually do.

  

 Whenever I tell people how much I paid for the Piccolino, I get asked this a lot – “Is there anything at all that you regret about the purchase?”

  

 And my answer? A resounding Yes!

  

 Yes that it took me so darn long to listen to it.


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## Jalo

@Etteoh, I am glad you discovered the crystal Piccolino like I did back in 2008. You are exactly right it is very musical, smooth but clear. However, when you say toxic Piccolino I wonder what exactly did you get. I have some Piccolino interconnect and iems cables for my various Iems. I am recabling one for my Andromeda now. Did you say you bought a Piccolino interconnect? The headphone cable has much more serious sound effect than the interconnect. Good luck.


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## etteoh

jalo said:


> @Etteoh, I am glad you discovered the crystal Piccolino like I did back in 2008. You are exactly right it is very musical, smooth but clear. However, when you say toxic Piccolino I wonder what exactly did you get. I have some Piccolino interconnect and iems cables for my various Iems. I am recabling one for my Andromeda now. Did you say you bought a Piccolino interconnect? The headphone cable has much more serious sound effect than the interconnect. Good luck.


 
  
 Jalo, the Toxic Piccolino interconnect I mentioned was made by Frank of Toxic Cables. This was a used cable but in perfect condition as far as I could see / tell. Honestly, I was so impressed by the balance and sheer musicality prowess of the Piccolino that I got in touch with Frank to place an order for my CIEM. It too craves a Piccolino  Fortunately, Frank still has some left in his inventory to put together a 4-footer for me. It may be one of the more pricier cables around but given how the interconnect blew me away to Timbuktu and back, I am confident an all-Piccolino wired rig would pretty much be all I need from a cable perspective. Although there would be a 10-week wait period to get the Piccolino put together. I shall be waiting in sheer anticipation...
  
 Thinking back, it's really funny. I've had countless opportunities to listen to the Piccolino in the past but I've always sidelined them because I couldn't stand how thin they looked. Compared to my plusSound X8, it's clearly David and Goliath side by side. But here's how I knew right away the Piccolino redefined things for me - there was never any one time when I had listened to / bought a cable and didn't feel the need to compare it to other cables to see if I was missing something. I've always had some doubts, if only a little at times. With the Piccolino, right from the get-go, it effectively cast aside any doubts I may have had. I may have run out of words to describe this so I'm just going to say "You know it when it's right. You just do."
  
 And just so we're all on the same page, I want to make it clear that I am not affiliated with Crystal Cable in any way...I only wanted to share my experience with the Piccolino, which turned out to be an unexpectedly sublime one.


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