# Mouse -Fi



## BigBird

Yes, its another one of these threads, I would like to know what the rest of Head-Fi use.  At the moment I am using the Logitech MX Performance since I was forced by Logitech,  This is not as good as my MX Revolution but when it started getting problems they discontinued the revolution so I was forced to get the MX Performance.
   
)


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## r1n7r4h

Right now, I use the Logitech MX518 because its just built like a rock. However, I am waiting for the Cooler Master Spawn to come out because claw-gripping my mouse just gives me better control for gaming.


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## BigBird

My mouse is so bad for gaming since its a wireless mouse and made for comfort not gaming. LOL


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## Rhor

i bought a razor death adder for my girlfriend, and i liked the quality so much, i bought a naga for myself. i would defiantly recommend their line-up.


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## FortuneSound

I have a cyborg R.A.T.7, but if I had to buy a mouse again I would buy a R.A.T.5 because the additional adjustments available on the 7 hardly justify the aditional cost.


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## r1n7r4h

Quote: 





bigbird said:


> My mouse is so bad for gaming since its a wireless mouse and made for comfort not gaming. LOL


 

 I think it will be the total opposite with the CM Spawn. It looks so small that a person would need itty-bitty hands to try to palm-grip the mouse. So, it'll be great for gaming but extended usage would lead to some cramping.


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## bcasey25raptor

no name chinese brand wireless mouse. says nexxtech on it.


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## Szadzik

Logitech Performance Mouse MX. Very happy with it. Loads of redefinable buttons and great ergonomics.


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## TheGomdoRi

Quote:


bcasey25raptor said:


> no name chinese brand wireless mouse. says nexxtech on it.


 

 Did you get it from "The Source?"
 My gf bought a cheap laptop one from them and it broke in like 5 months
 I currently use the G1 and just a basic office-use Logitech mouse.
 Logitech = practical, good quality, and affordable!


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## EnOYiN

MS IE 3.0. It works and it's not too expensive. The only problem it has is the thumb button. Other than that it's still one of the best mice around in my opinion.


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## Randius

Was using the Logitech Nano VX but after getting the X61 tablet, it has been the little red point + stylus for me. The mouse is now lying in my drawer...


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## bcasey25raptor

Quote: 





thegomdori said:


> Quote:
> 
> Did you get it from "The Source?"
> My gf bought a cheap laptop one from them and it broke in like 5 months
> ...


 
  ya but it was $30 so i don't care, if need be i will just buy a new one.
this is the mouse
   
  also i have had it since december.


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## Dreaming Of A Better ...

Logitech G500 here.


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## Sotiris

logitech G500 here too! i have it one week....Very good for now,lets see how much it will lasts......main problem of the mouses i had in the past.....


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## Somnambulist

Apple Magic Mouse with the batteries swapped out for the Mobee Magic Charger (inductive) and teflon strips applied to the rubber feet to improve glide. Corepad C1 Medium sized mouse mat. I also DIY'ed a forearm/wrist rest which keeps my hand supported and stops the overly-bent-wrist syndrome the MM causes due to it's thinness.


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## appophylite

Logitech Trackman. Only the one pictured is one of the latest models and mine is nearly 8 years old and still rolling.


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## chrisftl

5 mice here. I'm VERY picky when it comes to this.
   
  I have a Logitech MX510 (Blue, not the red) that has been my favorite mouse I have ever owned. I sadly retired (but still have; just collecting dust :[ ) it for being old and grimy. (Imagine 5-6 years of sweaty palm buildup, even with regular clean-ups.) There are blemishes, scratches, and the logo's rubbed out, but it's a tank and works like the day I bought it.
   
  I went through a brief stint with a Logitech G5, which just wasn't fun for me. I had the revision with the back AND forward button on the side and "cool" design, too. I use my scroll wheel to cycle through my weapons in shooters, and the G5 was a nucking fightmare when it came to that. I was gonna sell it awhile back, but nobody wants that ish anymore. I might keep it, pawn it off, or sell for 1/4 the price since that's all I would probably get for it.
   
  I now have a G500, which I love. It's durable, versatile, accurate, and has a nice weight to it. TECHNICALLY it's the best mouse I've used (I've "used" them all, pretty much. Death Adder, G7, MX1000, Lachesis, G9, etc) so far, but my MX510 still beats it.
   
  I have a generic Microsoft optical mouse that's my oldest. 10+ years old. And I have a Mac wired mouse that came with the Macbook Pro.


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## TheGomdoRi

My personal theory/formula for a good mouse:

 Logitech + simple + under $20 = satisfaction...
 I don't game or do anything hardcore (the binding/custom keys on the mice thing) to justify an expensive mouse.
 I'm so used to the OEM office-use cheapies, whenever I try out a nice mouse at a store or something I feel overwhelmed lolol.


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## natashaful

My Razer Naga Epic and my Naga Chckmate Suckers, Hehe.
   
  Natty.


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## pooslice

I use a Logitech mx510 anf mx518. They're perfect for my hands. I tried a few other models but they didn't feel right.


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## Daysleeper

Apple's Magic Mouse for various Macbooks, the default trackpad on my Asus laptop for use with my media rig, and the standard Dell mouse for my work laptop. Tried aRazer *insert branding here as i forgot what it was* and i liked it - dropped it while trying it out and stepped on it (tripped on the wire) and it still works fine. My friend didn't mind though, he says he's gone that way numerous times.


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## pigmode

Interesting, all this love for the MX510, which was also my favorite. Went through one, and the second sits in the closet now that the desktop is gone. Its Apple trackpad with the MBP, and if I get an iMac (doubt it) it'll be with the Magic Trackpad.


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## mark2410

Wireless IntelliMouse Explorer for Bluetooth
   

  easily the best mouse ive ever used, fits my hand perfectly and still going strong even though its nearing its 10th birthday


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## bcasey25raptor

Quote: 





pigmode said:


> Interesting, all this love for the MX510, which was also my favorite. Went through one, and the second sits in the closet now that the desktop is gone. *Its Apple trackpad with the MBP, and if I get an iMac (doubt it) it'll be with the Magic Trackpad.*


 


  i used those at best buy and i have no idea how anyone could find those comfortable or easy to use. i much prefer a regular mouse.


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## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





bcasey25raptor said:


> i used those at best buy and i have no idea how anyone could find those comfortable or easy to use. i much prefer a regular mouse.


 


  I sort of agree. I played with one at the Apple store and I came away thinking, "That would take a lot of getting used to." However, I could see it being very powerful and while I'd likely stick with a normal mouse I'd use the trackpad for gesture commands. That being said, I have no plans on buying one.
   
  I think the best mouse I ever had was the VX Nano. That mouse was comfy (I have big hands but prefer a smaller mouse), sensitive and actually great for gaming. I traded it up for a VX Revolution and regretted it. However, I'd sold the Nano to a friend so I couldn't go back. After that I bought a Mighty Mouse (sucked) and eventually got myself an Anywhere MX, which is alright but could be a lot better.
   
  Once I get paid for my latest gig I'm planning on buying a new mouse. So far the leader is the Razer DeathAdder, Black Edition. I keep hearing great things about it and I think a mouse that runs a little smoother (and I can't scream is lagging) might be a good idea. Plus, wireless mice are heavy and don't glide as smoothly when gaming.


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## LordofDoom

Logitech G5 Gen.1
  I've been using it for at least 5 years, it's worn the logo off and the grip has become smooth.


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## DougofTheAbaci

New leader on my list: Razer Lachesis. It's $20 than the DeathAdder but it has nine buttons instead of five.
   
  For those with Razer mice, how does the quick-sensitivity switching work? Do you tell it, "This button moves it up, this button moves it down," or is it a toggle thing? Is the button pre-chosen or can I tell it which one to use? The reason I'm thinking the nine-buttoned mouse might be nice is if you can have an up and down button I can use the buttons on the right side and leave the ones on the left side for what I usually use in FPS games, which is switch gun and throw a grenade.


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## LordofDoom

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> New leader on my list: Razer Lachesis. It's $20 than the DeathAdder but it has nine buttons instead of five.
> 
> For those with Razer mice, how does the quick-sensitivity switching work? Do you tell it, "This button moves it up, this button moves it down," or is it a toggle thing? Is the button pre-chosen or can I tell it which one to use? The reason I'm thinking the nine-buttoned mouse might be nice is if you can have an up and down button I can use the buttons on the right side and leave the ones on the left side for what I usually use in FPS games, which is switch gun and throw a grenade.


 

 I have heard the tracking isn't as good.  It's laser instead of infrared.  I don't know the functional difference here, but I have not heard the best things of the Lachesis, hence why it started as more expensive and wound up cheaper.


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## DougofTheAbaci

Hmm. I didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up.


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## flyingbangus

Hi guys, any recommendations for a "fat" or "tall" mouse? I need something that is tall from bottom to top, to reduce the stress on my middle metacarpal joint.
   
  Flat(ter) mice really stresses my right hand's middle finger knuckle. Right now I'm using a Microsoft Comfort Optical Mouse 3000 at the office, which is slightly better than the HP I've been using for a couple of years now.
   
  I have to find a very good replacement for the wireless logitech I've been using for 4 years at home. The stress on my middle metacarpal joint flares out when I play Starcraft2 for over an hour. (I only average 110ish APM, so no crazy clicky spamming here!)


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## Szadzik

Quote: 





flyingbangus said:


> Hi guys, any recommendations for a "fat" or "tall" mouse? I need something that is tall from bottom to top, to reduce the stress on my middle metacarpal joint.
> 
> Flat(ter) mice really stresses my right hand's middle finger knuckle. Right now I'm using a Microsoft Comfort Optical Mouse 3000 at the office, which is slightly better than the HP I've been using for a couple of years now.
> 
> I have to find a very good replacement for the wireless logitech I've been using for 4 years at home. The stress on my middle metacarpal joint flares out when I play Starcraft2 for over an hour. (I only average 110ish APM, so no crazy clicky spamming here!)


 


   
  For the reasons you explained I have been using high-end Logitech mouse for a long time now. I had a bluetooth one in the past and now have Performance Mouse MX and it definitely is a wonder ergonomics-wise. You will never worry about flumsy fingers again.


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## flyingbangus

Thanks! I'll give the Performance Mouse MX a try if the Logitech M305 I ordered before seeing this post doesn't do the trick.
  Quote: 





szadzik said:


> For the reasons you explained I have been using high-end Logitech mouse for a long time now. I had a bluetooth one in the past and now have Performance Mouse MX and it definitely is a wonder ergonomics-wise. You will never worry about flumsy fingers again.


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## yais29

MX518 here - absolute gem of a mouse and a decent price too. Have tried using Razer/Roccat etc. but just keep coming back to the Logitech....
   
  anyone used the Microsoft Arc? Always fancied giving it a try.
   
  Zain


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## jjinh

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> For the reasons you explained I have been using high-end Logitech mouse for a long time now. I had a bluetooth one in the past and now have Performance Mouse MX and it definitely is a wonder ergonomics-wise. You will never worry about flumsy fingers again.


 
   
  I prefer the ergonomics of the old MX series to the MX Performance aka MX950.


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## Szadzik

Quote: 





jjinh said:


> I prefer the ergonomics of the old MX series to the MX Performance aka MX950.


 


   
  I only had the 1000 series and it was very nice, but Bluetooth connection was not good eanough. There was no Darkfield Technology either AFAIR.


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## Chromako

I use a Kensington Expert Mouse (actually a trakball). It takes a few hours of use to "burn in" the trackball bearings, but I've been using it now for four years. 
   
  I generally avoid mice unless gaming (in which I'd like to get a Razer Orochi, but my wallet's not so happy due to Head-fi). Just not a fan of the uber-sculpted deigns as they just... aren't comfortable for me.


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## LegendaryLvl1

Quote: 





jjinh said:


> I prefer the ergonomics of the old MX series to the MX Performance aka MX950.


 


  I actually purchased that mouse a few weeks ago. It's been used once and hasn't been touched since.
   
  I guess I didnt like the weight of the mouse, or the ergonomics were just a bit off for me...
   
  For the past 10 years I've been using the classic Microsoft mouse. 
   
  I'm a gamer and I can say that I've had my fair share of mice purchases (mostly from razer, microsoft, logitech etc)
   
  My most expensive mice cost me around 200$ (AUD), while the cheapest I've ever purchased was free.
   
  I can say EASILY that my personal choice of excellence goes to the FREE mouse (Microsofts Basic Optical Mouse)
   
  I'm using the 1094 model, but I liked the previous model MUCH better.
   
_*EDIT:*_
   
  I think one of the most important things that mice makers forget is that the human hand adapts easily with frequent use of an object.
   
  Instead of trying to make the mice adapt to the human hand, I think it's better to allow the human hand to find its own appreciation of the mouse shape and design.
   
  I believe its the reason why seasoned gamers hardly use those 'ultra ergonomic designs' in tournaments.


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## barid

Logitech Wingman Gaming -> MX300 -> MX518 -> Steelseries Xai
   
  My mx518 broke a month or two back, replaced it with a steelseries xai.  very solid mouse, would recommend.


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## bcasey25raptor

Quote: 





legendarylvl1 said:


> I actually purchased that mouse a few weeks ago. It's been used once and hasn't been touched since.
> 
> I guess I didnt like the weight of the mouse, or the ergonomics were just a bit off for me...
> 
> ...


 

 lol i have one of those. 6 years old and i treat it like trash and it keeps working. im using it right now actually.
   
  reasons like this make me feel anything more then $30 for a mouse is stupid. this thing was $10. and it has lasted longer then any other mouse i have used. who ever said microsoft was a terrible company. they make solid products regardless of what people say.


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## LordofDoom

My G5 just broke on me yesterday... so I immediately went out and bought an MX518 on clearance and a G500 on sale  from Best Buy.  That price match thing is hard to argue with (G500 was $44, MX518 was $25).


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## fusedpro

Logitech G9. I love the thing, but the rubber coating on the grip I'm using is rubbing off. I also made the mistake of picking at it the very first time I saw this happening since I thought it was something stuck on my mouse... When I feel the need to get a new one, it'll probably be a G9x, MX518, or G500.


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## macshooter

Hell yes.   I have 3 of the corded ones.   One has seen years of serious use at work.  Once you get used to it, there's no going back.  I probably need to pick up a few of the cordless ones too so I have a lifetime supply.  I would HATE to go back to a normal mouse after this. 
  
  Quote: 





appophylite said:


> Logitech Trackman. Only the one pictured is one of the latest models and mine is nearly 8 years old and still rolling.


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## Shike

I'm a large Razer user . . . still not a fan of laser mouses though, so sticking to the latest Deathadder Rev.


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## Kanye East

had the VX revolution for the longest time; such a perfect mouse until it finally broke. picked up the MX performance and definitely needs some getting used to...pretty bulky.


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## ilikepooters

Prestigio PMSG1 - Best gaming mouse i've ever used, and loads cheaper than most popular brands.
   
  £30 on eBay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Prestigio-Ultimate-Gaming-Mouse-PMSG1-5400Dpi-Laser-WOW-/270581796569#vi-desc
   
  Couple of reviews on amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/PRESTIGIO-PMSG1-Prestigio-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00303FXLK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311844761&sr=8-1
   
  This replaced my Razer mouse and i've never looked back.


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## DougofTheAbaci

DeathAdder arrived (very early) this morning. Gonna put it through it's paces today.


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## flyingbangus

Stumbled upon a Logitech M705 at WalMart last weekend, and bought one to give it a try. I'm so pleased with it that I ordered another from Amazon to use at the office 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I didn't realize there's quite a lot of reviews on YouTube. I might browse through those when I have the time, and upgrade if I find something even more ergonomic.


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## koolkat

I'm using the Razer Abyssus. Simply mouse with durable buttons and wheel.
  It's a little small compared to my previous MX518 and a little less comfortable,
  but it's better for clicking.
   
  What's the point in spending so much on mice? (RAT series)
  If you're playing a first person shooter, 3500 DPI should be the max dpi you
  set your mouse on. Many use the 1600/1800 DPI setting. Extra-powerful
  5600 DPI or 7200 DPI mice are definitely not worth the money.


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## DougofTheAbaci

I think I've said this already, but I remember reading this article on gaming mice that stated DPI was not the most important feature of a mouse. While mice offer these fantastic resolutions, no one uses them. The word was that even pro gamers only used between 800-1,200 DPI settings on their mice, for the most part.
   
  One thing I've noticed that I quite like is the on-the-fly sensitivity switching. I have my DeathAdder set to 3,500 DPI but I only have it at 4/10 of that for normal usage. However, when I'm playing Bad Company 2, when I'm scoped in I drop the sensitivity so I can shoot longer distances with better accuracy. Then when I'm flying I put the sensitivity very high which is very handy as certain helicopters would otherwise turn like a bus.
   
  In those situations, It's very handy.


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## barid

Agree, with your DPI comments.  I toggle 800-1000, most fps pro's use lower than that (or compensate by dropping sensitivity extremely low and upping DPI).


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## buffalowings

just bought a logitech g500 to go with my newly built gaming rig (1tb hardrive, 8gb ra, evga 560ti graphics, 4-5 110mm fans (i forgot) and a massive 220mm fan mounted in a antec 900 atx tower, 750watt power supply unit and a mother board with realtek alc889 (gonna replace it with a decent soundcard) overall, a decent system


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## dirkpitt45

Quote: 





barid said:


> Agree, with your DPI comments.  I toggle 800-1000, most fps pro's use lower than that (or compensate by dropping sensitivity extremely low and upping DPI).


 


  I find that extremely hard to believe tbh. On my g700 (at least to me, and I'm by no means a pro gamer) 900 dpi is insane slow. Unusable even for general use, I wouldn't even attempt to play any fps games with that. I use 3000dpi for general use and gaming (except for section 8, have to turn it down in that game for some reason), and adjust it up to 4000 for flying in bad company 2.
   
  Though I've never agreed with the whole "lower sensitivity for more accuracy" thing. The way I see it, the higher sensitivity you play on, the faster you can move your cursor, and if you move your cursor faster than your opponent, you win. Accuracy comes with practice, might suck at first, but over time you'll be much better.


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## DougofTheAbaci

Find it hard to believe all you want, but I bet you're not actually using it at 3,000 dpi. If you were, and it was at high sensitivity, if you moved your mouse an inch you'd rotate a full 360 half a dozen times. As it is, at my lower settings, I can rotate fully in about two to three inches.
   
  If you're using a Razer, just so you know, the DPI you set it to in the control panel isn't necessarily what you're actually using it at. What the OS is set to, what the game is set to, it all matters.


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## barid

I find it hard to believe at default windows mouse settings you could use your mouse at 3000 dpi and even hit an icon on your desktop regardless of resolution. Plenty of pros for qlive, cs:source, tf2 (etc)  publish their mouse profiles and cfgs.  I dont know a single player that would play at 3000dpi and default windows mouse settings and game settings.


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## Malkavian

Logitech g500.fits my paws nicely,and the on the fly sens buttons and weights are very cool.


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## dirkpitt45

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Find it hard to believe all you want, but I bet you're not actually using it at 3,000 dpi. If you were, and it was at high sensitivity, if you moved your mouse an inch you'd rotate a full 360 half a dozen times. As it is, at my lower settings, I can rotate fully in about two to three inches.
> 
> If you're using a Razer, just so you know, the DPI you set it to in the control panel isn't necessarily what you're actually using it at. What the OS is set to, what the game is set to, it all matters.


 


  In the control panel the slider is 4 ticks away from "fast", haven't touched it since I reinstalled windows a few days ago. In Setpoint; pointer speed and acceleration are both set to use "OS" settings. In game I leave the sensitivity in the middle, always feels kinda mushy if I turn it up to high and lower my mouse settings. I also don't use a razer mouse, a logitech g700, as I said.. A complete 360 in css takes about an inch and a half maybe, don't have anything to measure with.
   
  Not to be argumentative, since logitech's setpoint is atrocious now, it could well be it.


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## koolkat

DPI is important, but most companies market their mice by telling them they have 7200 DPI, 5600 DPI or very high numbers.
  For those who know next to nothing about mice, the larger the number, the better. But really, anything over 3500 DPI is a waste.
  I agree that pro gamers use DPIs in the 1000s but most of them wouldn't drop below 1000, as that's quite low.
   
  Optical mice are preferred.
   
  Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> I think I've said this already, but I remember reading this article on gaming mice that stated DPI was not the most important feature of a mouse. While mice offer these fantastic resolutions, no one uses them. The word was that even pro gamers only used between 800-1,200 DPI settings on their mice, for the most part.
> 
> One thing I've noticed that I quite like is the on-the-fly sensitivity switching. I have my DeathAdder set to 3,500 DPI but I only have it at 4/10 of that for normal usage. However, when I'm playing Bad Company 2, when I'm scoped in I drop the sensitivity so I can shoot longer distances with better accuracy. Then when I'm flying I put the sensitivity very high which is very handy as certain helicopters would otherwise turn like a bus.
> 
> In those situations, It's very handy.


 


  Are you sure gamers go lower than 800-900? The higher the DPI the more sensitivity the mouse, hence better tracking abilities (not sure if that's the right term), but too low and it'll start skipping (again, not sure if that's the right term but I'm sure you get what I mean). If it's too low, then you have to turn up the in-game sens. Which defeats the purpose of having a gaming mouse, really.


  Quote: 





barid said:


> Agree, with your DPI comments.  I toggle 800-1000, most fps pro's use lower than that (or compensate by dropping sensitivity extremely low and upping DPI).


 

 For average gamers or semi-pros, I would imagine them to set their DPI somewhere between 1300 and 1800 for normal use. The higher the DPI, the more sensitive, so you have to set your
  in-game sens lower. I've seen some people max out their DPIs and play on high in-game sens, and I don't see why there's a need to do that. A lower sens adds weight, so you can move your whole hand, instead of having it pivoted on your wrist, which imo, translates to more accurate actions.
   


  Quote: 





dirkpitt45 said:


> I find that extremely hard to believe tbh. On my g700 (at least to me, and I'm by no means a pro gamer) 900 dpi is insane slow. Unusable even for general use, I wouldn't even attempt to play any fps games with that. I use 3000dpi for general use and gaming (except for section 8, have to turn it down in that game for some reason), and adjust it up to 4000 for flying in bad company 2.
> 
> Though I've never agreed with the whole "lower sensitivity for more accuracy" thing. The way I see it, the higher sensitivity you play on, the faster you can move your cursor, and if you move your cursor faster than your opponent, you win. Accuracy comes with practice, might suck at first, but over time you'll be much better.


 

 0.02


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## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





dirkpitt45 said:


> In the control panel the slider is 5 ticks away from "fast", haven't touched it since I reinstalled windows a few days ago. In Setpoint; pointer speed and acceleration are both set to use "OS" settings. In game I leave the sensitivity in the middle, always feels kinda mushy if I turn it up to high and lower my mouse settings. I also don't use a razer mouse, a logitech g700, as I said.. A complete 360 in css takes about an inch and a half maybe, don't have anything to measure with.
> 
> Not to be argumentative, since logitech's setpoint is atrocious now, it could well be it.


 

  
  I'm trying to remember exactly how it works, but I think if you have the game set to the middle distance it's equivalent to having half the sensitivity you have it set. So you're really in the 1,000 to 2,000 dpi range.
   
  Quote: 





koolkat said:


> DPI is important, but most companies market their mice by telling them they have 7200 DPI, 5600 DPI or very high numbers.
> For those who know next to nothing about mice, the larger the number, the better. But really, anything over 3500 DPI is a waste.
> I agree that pro gamers use DPIs in the 1000s but most of them wouldn't drop below 1000, as that's quite low.
> 
> ...


 

  
  I read it in an article written by someone at Steelseries. I think, though I'm unsure, that it was on ZDnet.


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## dirkpitt45

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> I'm trying to remember exactly how it works, but I think if you have the game set to the middle distance it's equivalent to having half the sensitivity you have it set. So you're really in the 1,000 to 2,000 dpi range.


 
   
  The windows sensitivity index has to do with how many pixels your cursor moves. So it is not the same thing as increasing your dpi settings. Having mine at 6/11 leave me with a 1:1 ratio, and thus has no effect on sensitivity set on my mouse.
   
  http://www.nextlevelgamer.com/tweaks/dont-modify-your-windows-sensitivity
   
  My mouse is set to 3000 dpi and I use it just fine. Even googleing "what DPI do you use?" results in some people using 800, and some 1600, and some over 2000. But no one blatantly says 3000 is impossible to use...


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## Msulit87

Been using my same Logitech G500 for 3 years without a hitch!


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## DougofTheAbaci

I have to say, I love everything about my Razer. Except scrolling. It SUCKS for just general scrolling. Maybe it's a Mac/Razor thing, I don't know, but compared to my Mighty Mouse (which scrolls like a boss) and my Logitech Anywhere MX, it's rather sad how bad it is.
   
  If it wasn't for the fact that I'd probably use it for nothing else, I'm half tempted to get one of the Apple trackpads to use for gestures and scrolling. If the day ever comes that I can figure out a logical reason to get one, I will. Until then, I'm debating just leaving my Might Mouse on my desk just to do gestures.


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## buffalowings

A gaming mouse really does make a difference, with my el cheapo two dollar mouse, I could never get my sights onto a target playing as a sniper or scout making those classes impossible in team fortress 2, with the g500, topping the charts as either class was a breeze


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## ninjikiran

Steelseries Ikari, most comfortable mouse I have ever used.  It is light in weight, and has extremely good accurate glide on the right pad.  I would recommend it for anyone for comfort alone. 
   
  Get a cable tie and USB hub and you have a mouse that has the feel of a wireless mouse 100%.


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## NamelessPFG

Yet another Logitech G500 user here, with a G5v1 on an older computer.
   
  Compared to the G5v1 (single thumb button), the DPI switching buttons are far more sensibly placed, the scroll wheel is a lot better overall, and the two extra thumb buttons do come in rather handy. Unfortunately, the change to SetPoint II means I can't use uberOptions any more, so I can't remap some of the things I used to be able to.
   
  Also, I happen to find the MX500-derived designs very comfortable and ergonomic for my usage (right-hand palm grip).


----------



## LordofDoom

Quote: 





barid said:


> I find it hard to believe at default windows mouse settings you could use your mouse at 3000 dpi and even hit an icon on your desktop regardless of resolution. Plenty of pros for qlive, cs:source, tf2 (etc)  publish their mouse profiles and cfgs.  I dont know a single player that would play at 3000dpi and default windows mouse settings and game settings.


 


  Yeah, 3k dpi is a lot 0__0
   
  From what I remember most of the upper level players were using <2.0 ingame speed (I think I used 1.15) and <1k dpi.


----------



## nsk1

I believe there's a rule that you shouldn't go beyond 1.6k, but I could be wrong.
   
  Anyway, I'm oldschool, still using my IE 3.0 (old white version). This mouse is indestructible, had problems with scroll but fixed it and fingers spots wear off but other than that it's golden. I own it since 2004. I used to play competitive, but not anymore, not really that much interesting games for playing online to be honest.
   
  But I saw Logitech G500 and MX518. G500 was too small for my hand, MX518 was pretty good in comfort area, but I still think IE 3.0 was comfier, but I didn't really play on Logitech so no opinion. About Razer, to be honest I mostly define their products as crap, I do think they had two good products: Razer Boomslang and Razer DeathAdder (first version). I heard that they fixed the drivers for new version of Deathadder so there might be hope.
   
  Generally I am disappointed in what direction the companies producing mice went on. There is a mouse that has 10k DPI, I mean come on! I actually wrote this post before reading whole thread, so I decided to read the 5 pages and see what mice people here are using. I really like that Logitech company, there's no marketing ******** like with Razer or Steelseries. People really should look what sensor is inside the mouse, the same sensor that sits in Logitech/Razer you can find in 3x cheaper A4Tech, but ultimately it comes down to functionality and comfort zone. 
   
  Perfect mouse gaming would be the housing of IE 3.0 with fixed buttons, wearing off and scroll + sensor from old Razer Deathadder... Although, I am intrigued by Steelseries Xai and Sensei.


----------



## c61746961

Yep, as good as it gets, and I'll bet my RE-ZEROS I can handily beat your asses in QuakeLive with it :D. Actually, the person with the sickest aim I have ever witnessed also uses this mouse (toxic from Sweden).
Don't drink the kool-aid fellas, gaming mice are a fad.


----------



## rido

Cyborg R.A.T 9. One isue is the side scroller only works in games and not windows.


----------



## LegendaryLvl1

Quote: 





c61746961 said:


> Yep, as good as it gets, and I'll bet my RE-ZEROS I can handily beat your asses in QuakeLive with it . Actually, the person with the sickest aim I have ever witnessed also uses this mouse (toxic from Sweden).
> Don't drink the kool-aid fellas, gaming mice are a fad.


 

 Read my first post. I also use this mouse in competitive gaming and it is by far the best.


----------



## c61746961

Oh, but this isn't the Basic Optical Mouse, it's the revered WMO 1.1


----------



## ninjikiran

also compared to my mouse those things are no where near as comfortable as my own


----------



## crapmonster

Was using a G5 which was epic for 5+ years until it crapped out recently.  Got a Sidewinder X8 since I wanted to try wireless, not completely happy with it honestly.  May try getting the Razer Mamba or going back to wired.


----------



## Szadzik

Just got a second Performance Mouse MX. For my desktop this time.


----------



## NoKTurNal

I WANT the logitech g500 or 518
   
  but I am using a wireless mouse
  Microsoft Mobile Mouse 3500
   
  Battery isnt a problem with rechargeables


----------



## buffalowings

it's funny how experiences in headfi have effected me, when I was looking for a gaming mouse (settled on the g500) i never once considered wireless, thank you headfi


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Eh, wireless isn't nearly as big an issue with gaming mice as it is for headphones. The amount of data being sent wirelessly for a mouse is drastically less than it is for headphones. The problem is weight of the mouse and response time, unless you get a really expensive gamer-grade wireless mouse.


----------



## Aeneas

Another happy Logitech G500 user.
  I'm not a gamer so I use the DPI buttons for copy and paste, the extra button between 'forward' and 'back' for search (i.e. highlight anything, anywhere, and click to search Google). This has saved me a hell of a lot of time. DPI buttons (you can have a profile that is automatically activated when using certain programs) are really handy in Photoshop and so on though.
   
  I want to say that having a 3-year warranty is quite important for me, and a lot of Logitech products have this. I had a good Saitek mouse in the past but the clicker failed after about a year.
   
   
  By the way, how have people found the battery on the Performance MX? It was bad for me, on two separate units, but reviews said it was good. I would choose a wireless G500 over a Performance MX by the way, but wirless would be really helpful for me.


----------



## buffalowings

alright guys, I dug out the logitech trankman (wired) mouse we got for our dad that he never used, interesting little bugger, gonna see how well it turns out in the end
   
  update: after about ten minutes of usage, the trackman is a very usable little gizmo, scrolling is extremely slow though even after I applied the highest possible scroll settings, turned off mouse acceleration due to old habits from gaming, have yet to run a game with the trackman


----------



## treal512

Logitech M-BJ58. Oh yeah!!


----------



## Tordenskjold

Razer Copperhead. Simple, efficient, reliable.


----------



## ninjikiran

That was one heck of a good mouse when I owned it and I gamed leftie. 
  
  Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Logitech M-BJ58. Oh yeah!!


----------



## treal512

What do you use now? And how do you like it in comparison? This thread has kind of scared me into wanting a backup mouse. That or I may just learn how to operate on my current one to keep her tip-top because I still very much enjoy it! Especially for TFC


----------



## Adda

I use a customized IME 3.0, it uses the top cover and buttons of the original IME 3.0 but optics and grip of the new version.
  The mouse wheel comes from a MS optical mouse, the led glowing out the back of the mouse have been removed and I have added some pieces of tape to the thumb buttons (internally) so that they don't rattle anymore.
  Lastly a little plastic knob on the internal mouse wheel assembly, has been filed down a bit, so that the wheel isn't noisy anymore, and the main cord has been swapped with a sleeved one.
  So now I have a IME 3.0 without rattling buttons, noisy and dragging wheel or annoying light glowing out the back.


----------



## celcius

I've been using my Logitech MX518 for years and still love it.


----------



## optyx

I''ve been using a Logitech G5 (Version 1) since I upgraded from my trusty MX518. I have yet to find another mouse that can take its place on my desk. I've got the weight perfectly adjusted for my style of play, and the rubberized sides give it a great feel.


----------



## Raizor

I got the Logitech G700 a while ago and it's been working great for me. The extra side buttons haven't been as useful to me as I thought they would since I haven't been playing many games where they'd be useful. Only niggle I have with it is the battery indicator doesn't seem to be very accurate...pretty minor compared to the annoyances I've had with my razer mamba.


----------



## LingLing1337

I've been using a Mionix Naos 3200 since Christmas and it's excellent. I love the finish. IDK what it is but it grips nicely and cleans off easily.


----------



## nikp

I use the Logitech G500. I'm not a hardcore gamer but I love gaming gears. They look and perform quite better than normal mice or keyboards.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Logitec v470 in blue. It lets me take advantage of my internal bluetooth receiver in my laptop, it works well, gets decent battery life, and it looks cool in metallic blue chilling next to my blue sunburst VAIO


----------



## techfreakazoid

Anyone with suggestions on a "silent" or "quiet" mouse--non-clicky sounding on the buttons and ratcheting on the scrollwheel.  Currently, using the MS Bluetooth Notebook Mouse 5000 and it's one of the quieter mice on the market.  Prefer a notebook-size mouse with the rubbery texture and it should have a back button on the side.  Curious about the Nexus SM-7000B Silent Mouse though it lacks a back button and seems to have qc issues.


----------



## crapmonster

Not sure if there is much to be done as far as the actual buttons clicking but most scrollwheels can be modded.  I did it with my old G5, where basically you simply take out a small spring and the wheel spins smooth.  No clicks and you can scroll through pages like 20 times faster.  The downside being (if you play fps's or other games) is that the wheel has nothing hold its position so it will occasionally move around on its own.
  http://www.instructables.com/id/Making-a-mouse-wheel-not-click./


----------



## Szadzik

I use Logitech Performance Mouse MX because it is silent.


----------



## ZorgDK

I recently bought a Logitech G9X, but I felt it was awkward to use, so I sold it. Now I'm back to using my old MX518, which is a much nicer mouse IMO.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote: 





crapmonster said:


> Not sure if there is much to be done as far as the actual buttons clicking but most scrollwheels can be modded. I did it with my old G5, where basically you simply take out a small spring and the wheel spins smooth. No clicks and you can scroll through pages like 20 times faster. The downside being (if you play fps's or other games) is that the wheel has nothing hold its position so it will occasionally move around on its own.
> http://www.instructables.com/id/Making-a-mouse-wheel-not-click./


 

 Very cool.  I can live with a noisier scrollwheel, but the buttons get more use and can be more disturbing to the user and neighbors.

  
  Quote: 





szadzik said:


> I use Logitech Performance Mouse MX because it is silent.


 

 Do the buttons produce any clicking sound?  I have the Logitech Cordless Desktop MX 5500 Revolution which includes the MX Revolution mouse and it's definitely not silent.  Have another Logitech mouse which has the shape of the M500, and it's relatively quiet though the battery life is poor.
   
  Haven't had much luck with Logitech as their buttons are really levers and they produce a high pitch clicky sound.  Design-wise and ergonomics are great, but haven't found a model with quiet buttons.  As for their keyboards, I went through four Logitechs before I found the K800 to be the quietest.  Not that the preceding keyboards were not quiet, but they have a short shelf life before they become increasingly louder, especially the spacebars.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





techfreakazoid said:


> Do the buttons produce any clicking sound?  I have the Logitech Cordless Desktop MX 5500 Revolution which includes the MX Revolution mouse and it's definitely not silent.  Have another Logitech mouse which has the shape of the M500, and it's relatively quiet though the battery life is poor.
> Haven't had much luck with Logitech as their buttons are really levers and they produce a high pitch clicky sound.  Design-wise and ergonomics are great, but haven't found a model with quiet buttons.  As for their keyboards, I went through four Logitechs before I found the K800 to be the quietest.  Not that the preceding keyboards were not quiet, but they have a short shelf life before they become increasingly louder, especially the spacebars.


 


   
  Buttons are not completely silent, I have not seen a mouse with buttons not making any sound, they are relatively silent and am happy with that.


----------



## crapmonster

Haven't tried this personally but:
  http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48682


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Buttons are not completely silent, I have not seen a mouse with buttons not making any sound, they are relatively silent and am happy with that.


 

 From this review, the Performance Mouse MX has a similar design / shape as the MX Revolution.  Looking for a smaller notebook mouse with a lower profile.


 Quote:


crapmonster said:


> Haven't tried this personally but:
> http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48682


 

 That's one hell of a guide.


----------



## Raguvian

Just got a G400. I tried the Logitech Gaming software but unfortunately it makes the cursor jump around quite a bit which is very aggravating. I ended up not using the software but now I don't get the custom set DPI and mouse buttons.


----------



## Mozu

Unless it's a bug with the new version of the software, you have have gotten a wonky one.  I had a G400 for a bit, not a single problem.


----------



## Raguvian

Quote: 





mozu said:


> Unless it's a bug with the new version of the software, you have have gotten a wonky one.  I had a G400 for a bit, not a single problem.


 


  Nothing's wrong with the mouse as it tracks fine without the software, and I read a review where the reviewer had the same problem with the cursor jittering with the software. Unfortunately it's on overclock.net which is being overhauled right now so I can't link it.
   
  A lot of other reviews I read didn't even use the software. I guess it's better not to as I can still switch DPI and I'd rather be able to use it as a plug and play mouse on any computer.


----------



## crapmonster

It sounds like a driver or firmware issue.  I remember reading about that cursor jumping issue with some Razer wireless mice and that was definitely a driver issue.    If you can still use the dpi buttons though, you don't really need the software. 
   
  There are also alternatives like this:
  http://fzwte.net/site/ZWDA_Home
   
  ...although I have no experience with them.


----------



## Mozu

Yeah, the CM Storm Spawn had a similar firmware issue.


----------



## Linkin

Logitech G500 with the heavier weights, 800 dpi, low sensitivity in games. For a real man


----------



## nikp

Quote: 





linkin said:


> Logitech G500 with the heavier weights, 800 dpi, low sensitivity in games. For a real man


 

 Low sensitivity? What games do you play?


----------



## Mochan

Quote: 





bigbird said:


> My mouse is so bad for gaming since its a wireless mouse and made for comfort not gaming. LOL


 


  Wireless mice > wired mice for gaming. The wire gets in the way.
   
  There are lots of mice with great wireless performance that offer excellent tracking for games.  We have the Roccat Pyra, Logitech G7, Cyborg Rat 9. Have not tried the Razer Mamba. I don't like Logitech or Razer though, Rat9 is the best mouse in my book.


----------



## Mochan

Quote: 





techfreakazoid said:


> Very cool.  I can live with a noisier scrollwheel, but the buttons get more use and can be more disturbing to the user and neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I find Logitech to be unreliable in terms of their buttons, had to operate on two of my Logitech mice to fix their left buttons.
  I also had some Logitech keyboards and they were also lousy.
   
  I have learned my lesson now and stay away from Logitech.
   
  but for silent buttons, I too have never found a silent mouse. As long as it has buttons, it has some kind of clicking noise. Some are noisier than others.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Logitech is a marketing-driven company with flashy packaging and their products perform well out of the box.  But a few months down the road, the keys and buttons get louder so durability is not their forte.  Better components and a concerted effort to design products with a 'quiet' focus are required as consumers are more tech savvy and tired of the buy-and-dispose consumables culture of replacing mice and keyboards every few months, year.
   
  I ended up purchasing the Quietsmooth Wireless Mouse and this mouse delivers on its quiet promise.  I asked Greg, the owner of Quiet Mouse, to select a mouse with the quietest left button and it's near silent.  The right button is more audible, but I don't use right-button clicks as much.  The scrollwheel has a little friction to it for scrolling, but remains quiet along with using it as a button.  While I miss the back button on the MS 5000 mouse, I don't miss the noise it produces.  I thought the MS mouse was relatively quiet, but it's a noise maker compared to the Quiet Mouse.  This mouse is a great companion for the computer audiophiles that prefer listening to their music than the clicking of their mice.  Only problem now is that my Logitech K800 wireless keyboard doesn't sound so 'whisper-quiet' compared to my Quietsmooth Wireless!
   
  I also considered the Nexus SM-9000, but decided to go with Quiet Mouse as Greg patiently answered all my questions and was a pleasure to deal with.  I may pick up the Nexus mouse for curiosity's sake and for another computer.  Just hoping my Quietsmooth Wireless has a longer quiet click-life than the MS and Logitechs so only time will tell.


----------



## yliu

I sold my Logitech MX Performance, mainly because I like to play FPS games on weekends, and I find that I have to change batteries constantly, the extra buttons are useless in games and I really like the feel of my friend's Razer. 
   
  So I ordered a Deathadder Black Edition
   
  One thing I don't understand is that how does the DPI thing work??? I mean, I can set the sensitivity high on my computer and even very cheap mouses are super sensitive...
   
  As with the quality of Logitech products, I think they are great! I have a normal optical Logitech mouse I bought back in 2005 (I think, but I'm sure it's really old!) and it still works! I've used it for about 4years then switched to the MX Performance, and now I am using that mouse until my Razer arrives.


----------



## Vipa

I have an MX Revolution...  the battery is nearing the endo of it's usefull life.. only get 2 days out of a full charge now!! is there any way of replacing it or do I resign it to mouse heaven?


----------



## Raguvian

Quote: 





yliu said:


> I sold my Logitech MX Performance, mainly because I like to play FPS games on weekends, and I find that I have to change batteries constantly, the extra buttons are useless in games and I really like the feel of my friend's Razer.
> 
> So I ordered a Deathadder Black Edition
> 
> ...


 

 You can change the DPI in game so it's fast when you want to look around, but slow when you want to snipe. Of course, this means pressing buttons to change the DPI but I never do that. I've set it at 850 DPI I believe and turned the sensitivity on Windows down, and I use the DPI buttons on my G400 as either weapon switching, Steam chat or in game chat.


----------



## J0nny

Razer Mamba. Beautiful to behold and to hold!


----------



## yliu

Quote: 





raguvian said:


> You can change the DPI in game so it's fast when you want to look around, but slow when you want to snipe. Of course, this means pressing buttons to change the DPI but I never do that. I've set it at 850 DPI I believe and turned the sensitivity on Windows down, and I use the DPI buttons on my G400 as either weapon switching, Steam chat or in game chat.


 


  I don't understand whats the difference between setting the DPI high with the sensitivity on your computer down, and setting the DPI low with the computer sensitivity turned up???


----------



## andrewberge

yliu: I... I'm not sure there is one.
   
   
   
  Anywho. I have the Logitech Performance MX, too.
  Actually, i bought my first one just over a year ago. It was defective from day one, and was really picky on which surfaces it works on.
  I only got around to returning it a week ago, and got my new, fully functional one today.
   
  I bought it for the buttons. By default, i have the top three do Back/Forward and ctrl+ (resizes columns in explorer and other apps).
  But i use the button under my thumb to change them back and forth between those functions and media playback buttons.


----------



## Tetsuma

Quote: 





raguvian said:


> Just got a G400. I tried the Logitech Gaming software but unfortunately it makes the cursor jump around quite a bit which is very aggravating. I ended up not using the software but now I don't get the custom set DPI and mouse buttons.


 

 I don't use the software for my MX518, and have even gone far enough as to remove mouse accel via regedit.
  Yet my sensitivity buttons work. Just not the pseudo-alt tab button.
   
   



nikp said:


> Low sensitivity? What games do you play?


 
  If he's anything like me, FPS i'd assume.
   
   
  Steelseries Xai should be here any day.


----------



## Cheapy

Quote: 





mochan said:


> Wireless mice > wired mice for gaming. The wire gets in the way.
> 
> There are lots of mice with great wireless performance that offer excellent tracking for games.  We have the Roccat Pyra, Logitech G7, Cyborg Rat 9. Have not tried the Razer Mamba. I don't like Logitech or Razer though, Rat9 is the best mouse in my book.


 
  Recently swapped from a Gigabyte GM6990 (I think it was) to a Microsoft Sidewinder X8. The shape took a bit of adjusting to but im quite liking it now. Like you said having no wire to drag around the place has made it so much easier to use. Worth a look if you want one of the cheapest wireless gaming mice around but only if you palm your mouse.


----------



## yliu

Quote: 





andrewberge said:


> yliu: I... I'm not sure there is one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  I have a mac, so maybe thats why it's different.
   
  I bought the MX performance for the buttons and the comfort, but I realized that I only use the left and right clicks and the buttons are not programmable in games. So I bought the Razer Deathadder, which just arrived today, and I really like it. It does certainly feel more precise in games, but I still need some time to get used to it.


----------



## Raguvian

Quote: 





tetsuma said:


> I don't use the software for my MX518, and have even gone far enough as to remove mouse accel via regedit.
> Yet my sensitivity buttons work. Just not the pseudo-alt tab button.
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yeah, it works, but only switches between 3 set DPI. I ended up reinstalling the software and luckily have no problems with tracking now. I wanted the software only so I could set the DPI buttons as different keys with different functions (weapon swap, mic, etc).


----------



## Texpect

Razer Deathadder here. I've decreased playing after buying it but it's nice to use everyday! I'd recommend it to anyone, even for a casual user (email etc.)


----------



## Mozu

I had a Deathadder briefly. Really nice mouse, too big for my hands, though.

The Zowie EC2 is a fantastic replacement. Feels almost exactly like a DA, but about 20% (or so) smaller.

Picked up a Xornet recently, too, for a laugh, which I was really impressed with.

(I'll probably end up giving one to the wife when Guild Wars 2 comes out.  )


----------



## J0nny

Has anyone noticed the absolutely appalling mouse curve on Mac OS X? This deeply upsets me.


----------



## pigmode

Quote: 





j0nny said:


> Has anyone noticed the absolutely appalling mouse curve on Mac OS X? This deeply upsets me.


 


   
  If you mean speed and acceleration in system preferences, yeah its inadequate. I've always used USBOverdrive (from OS8.x), but haven't used it in SnowLeopard. It was always worth the price.
   
  http://www.usboverdrive.com/USBOverdrive/News.html


----------



## mitchcoleman

Razer Naga, all the way. Impeccable. The buttons are so useful. It's extremely sensitive.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





pigmode said:


> If you mean speed and acceleration in system preferences, yeah its inadequate. I've always used USBOverdrive (from OS8.x), but haven't used it in SnowLeopard. It was always worth the price.
> 
> http://www.usboverdrive.com/USBOverdrive/News.html


 


  Is the paid version of USBOverdrive much different from the free one? What's the difference, aside from the pop-up on startup and countdown timer on program launch?


----------



## pigmode

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  Is it free or a demo? Unless things have changed since OS10.5, and it may or may not have, the pop up and countdown was nagware. I got all the functionality I needed and that was speed, acceleration, and button/wheel mapping. ymmv.
   
  The programmer is a longtime reliable Mac guy. I'd still be using it, but now I prefer the trackpad. USBoverdrive would have been the first thing I installed.


----------



## Eric_C

Yeah it looks like nagware to me. I'm able to remap all the buttons on my mouse with no issue.


----------



## yliu

Quote: 





j0nny said:


> Has anyone noticed the absolutely appalling mouse curve on Mac OS X? This deeply upsets me.


 


  What do you mean by mouse curve?
   
  I'm using my Deathadder on a mac, and I don't have any problems...


----------



## the wizard of oz

Apple Wired Mighty Mouse with Macs, & Logitech M500 Corded Mouse with PC's.


----------



## oqvist

Black Friday meant I got home with a G700. Excuse for me is needing a wireless mouse I have two Zowie EC1s (coming with monitor), a Ikari Laser, Razer Deathadder, Razer Copperhead and Microsoft Sidewinder X5. I am not sure it´s the beefiest model with metal buttons maybe it´s X8???
   
  G700 is in the logitech school a bit to heavy for competitive use to me but I must say the build quality impresses me tons. It´s a mouse you just love to hug and squeeze. Scroll wheel is amazingly smooth. To smooth if you remove the resistance but perfect with it enabled. It totally match the Sidewinder X5 in feel. I like it´s pad better then sidewinders which is more vulnerable to dirt or you loose the glide.


----------



## yliu

Quote: 





the wizard of oz said:


> Apple Wired Mighty Mouse with Macs, & Logitech M500 Corded Mouse with PC's.


 


  I hate the Apple mighty mouse, it is a pain to make a right click with it, the scroll wheel/ball stopped working and the side buttons are very hard to press and unresponsive.


----------



## the wizard of oz

Quote:


yliu said:


> I hate the Apple mighty mouse, it is a pain to make a right click with it, the scroll wheel/ball stopped working and the side buttons are very hard to press and unresponsive.


 

 I agree it's pretty flawed. I have the occasional right-click bug too, but the scroll-ball hasn't defeated me so far, for the energetic rubbing-turned-over-on-a-piece-of-paper-with-a-little-moist cleaning technique has always restored full functionality. I really appreciate the 360° scrolling when working with pictures. I'm not much of a side button user, so can't comment on that feature.
  It looks great with the whole Mac set-up but I agree it's probably one of Apple's biggest technological failures; I have read pages & pages of disappointed Mighty Mouse users. But for half-price, I was willing to give it a try.
  What I'd really like is a wired version of the Magic Trackpad...


----------



## yliu

Quote: 





the wizard of oz said:


> I agree it's pretty flawed. I have the occasional right-click bug too, but the scroll-ball hasn't defeated me so far, for the energetic rubbing-turned-over-on-a-piece-of-paper-with-a-little-moist cleaning technique has always restored full functionality. I really appreciate the 360° scrolling when working with pictures. I'm not much of a side button user, so can't comment on that feature.
> It looks great with the whole Mac set-up but I agree it's probably one of Apple's biggest technological failures; I have read pages & pages of disappointed Mighty Mouse users. But for half-price, I was willing to give it a try.
> What I'd really like is a wired version of the Magic Trackpad...


 

  
  You might try the Magic Mouse, my friend has one. I think it looks better, and works better than the mighty mouse, it only has very bad ergonomics (it's too flat).
   
  I prefer traditional style mouses with 2 distinct buttons, because I play games . As for the 360 scroll, I don't use it neither side scrolling.
   
  Logitech MX Performance is very comfy, great for a work/everyday mouse but not so much for gaming...


----------



## the wizard of oz

Quote: 





yliu said:


> You might try the Magic Mouse, my friend has one. I think it looks better, and works better than the mighty mouse, it only has very bad ergonomics (it's too flat).
> 
> I prefer traditional style mouses with 2 distinct buttons, because I play games . As for the 360 scroll, I don't use it neither side scrolling.
> 
> Logitech MX Performance is very comfy, great for a work/everyday mouse but not so much for gaming...


 

 Unfortunately, so far, like for the Magic Trackpad, Apple has decided not to release a wired version of the Magic Mouse, so for Apple pointer solutions I'm stuck with the Mighty Mouse. Of course, apart from shallow aesthetic considerations, there's no stopping me using a non Apple mouse...


----------



## Eric_C

Sorry if you've already stated this, but why do you need an Apple-branded mouse?


----------



## Pudu

j0nny said:


> Has anyone noticed the absolutely appalling mouse curve on Mac OS X? This deeply upsets me.




This is the reason I don't use my Mac with OS X. I've tried all kinds of third party mouse applications but there always feels like there's some acceleration in the OS. After about an hour I reboot back into Windows. 

Can't stand non-linear mouse curves.


----------



## johnman1116

haha glad to see some razers here,
  especially Deathadder


----------



## MaDOS

I am currently using a Microsoft Sidewinder x8 on 1000 dpi (was using 2000 when I had a smaller mousepad
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and a Steelseries QcK mousepad.


----------



## thecourier

Guys, im on the look for a solid built mouse. I use it the whole day, for editing graphs and some gaming. 
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## andrewberge

Quote: 





thecourier said:


> Guys, im on the look for a solid built mouse. I use it the whole day, for editing graphs and some gaming.
> 
> Thoughts?


 

 I'm not a mouse connoisseur, but anyone who can give you recommendations will probably need to know:
  Your budget,
  Wired or wireless,
  How many buttons.


----------



## Adda

Quote: 





thecourier said:


> Guys, im on the look for a solid built mouse. I use it the whole day, for editing graphs and some gaming.
> 
> Thoughts?


 


  If you don't care for fancy features and ultra high dpi mice, then the MS IME 3.0 will serve you for years and years.
  I have had a Logitech G5 and a SteelSeries Ikari, but I keep returning to my IME 3.0, it has better ergonomics and precision, only down side is that it's limited to 450dpi.


----------



## 129207

Been using a Razer Lachesis for two years now. I feel pretty indifferent towards the thing. I bought it on a whim and the only thing I really like is the material/coating. It has a really soft, rubbery feel that I love. I don't use ANY of the macro buttons (except for the on-the-fly sensitivity button. great for sniper-aiming) or special features. It's packed with options and adjustment software that is totally wasted on me.  I'd trade it for any other decent mouse, preferably with blue LED to suit my Logitech G11 keyboard.


----------



## Ra97oR

I am using a Steelseries Sensei now with a 4HD pad. Built better than my 3G 1800 Deathadder which is failing apart. I use rather low sensitivity at 1350 cpi/dpi. I have had a Xai before, but gotten a Sensei as I send it in for a replacement due to the sale making the Sensei the same price as the Xai. I don't care much about lights and stuff, but the lift off distance is greatly reduced compared to the Xai weight is just the same and I totally love the surface on the Sensei. It is a great mouse even better then the old Deathadder IMO.


----------



## Tetsuma

Quote: 





ra97or said:


> I am using a Steelseries Sensei now with a 4HD pad. Built better than my 3G 1800 Deathadder which is failing apart. I use rather low sensitivity at 1350 cpi/dpi. I have had a Xai before, but gotten a Sensei as I send it in for a replacement due to the sale making the Sensei the same price as the Xai. I don't care much about lights and stuff, but the lift off distance is greatly reduced compared to the Xai weight is just the same and I totally love the surface on the Sensei. It is a great mouse even better then the old Deathadder IMO.


 

 Gotta pick my Xai up soon. MX518's Wheel died so i'm seeing if a mouse can justify $100 or if I should have got a 1.1 instead.


----------



## Texpect

Imo MX518 wins Xai in everything.


----------



## CSGO rice

I used to play Counter-Strike professionally, and just play for ****s and giggles now.
 I've tried just about every decent mouse on the market.
  First of all, all Razers are flimsy pieces of ****... except for the deathadder.
  1.1 and 3.0 are good if you can get used to the massive neg accel.
  Sensei/Xai are high level mice, but need a hard surface to track up to their potential.
  A pad like the Artisan Hien would work better with them if you need cloth (like me).  The talent and Qck make is sluggish.
  Zowie EC series are great.  AM should be great too (hopefully since I pre-ordered).
  Logitech mx 518/510 are solid as ****.  Haven't used the new g400, but I'm sure it is good too.
  Great tracking but massive amounts of prediction and will take a while to get used to if you're coming from a laser mouse.
   
  IMO optic > laser just because Laser mice are too picky and sensitive and the tiniest bit of dust on the sensor will make it track like ****.
   
  Can't go wrong with anything I listed.  First thing you should think about though... is how the shape of the mouse will fit your hand.  not just in a comfortable way, but in a way where you have the most control over the movement.  just because I can lay my palm and hand flat comfortably on a (insert random mouse), doesn't mean that I will be able to control it well.
   
  also, don't look at dpi.
  Most of the people I've played with on teams/in league use 400-500 dpi.
  One scrub used 1600 dpi, and he just happened to be the worst player on my team lol.


----------



## CSGO rice

PS
  NEVER use wireless.


----------



## Fugue

I use a Mac Magic Trackpad with my iMac.


----------



## andrewberge

Quote: 





csgo rice said:


> PS
> NEVER use wireless.


 

 Heh, i only use wireless! I'm not a big gamer, though.
  Wireless is just practical for me. I'm not limited to being three feet from my computer, less cable management, and the mouse isn't being tugged forward all the time by the weight of the cable hanging behind my desk (i hate that).


----------



## anetode

Started off a while ago with an MS IntelliMouse, which has the classic and still best ambidextrous setup, IMO. Then moved on to Logitech's version of the design, the G3, which was my first exposure to a high-DPI laser mouse. While the value of high-dpi may be questionable in gaming, it absolutely changed the way I work. The extra sensitivity proved most helpful in image editing, where, after a couple of years of practice, pixel-by-pixel editing becomes much more fluid. I recently upgraded to the G9x and found the limit to the amount of sensitivity I need: about 4000 dpi. Although it could be that with practice I could acclimate all the way to the 5000+ range. Plus the different profiles for apps/web/gaming/image editing are a godsend.

 The current setup is a fully weighed down G9x on a Fellowes Microban pad with 3500 dpi everyday, 4000 for photoshop, and 1600 for gaming. Admittedly I game mostly on consoles and could easily do better with an oldskool thumbstick controller than a mouse in FPSs.


----------



## barid

I kind of agree.  When my 518 died after years of use, I went to the Xai.  After a few months of using the Xai I decided to just go buy another 518.  I will say, the Xai is a good mouse, but i was just too used to the form factor of the 518.  I would recommend either mouse, I just wanted the old feel back myself.
  
  Quote: 





texpect said:


> Imo MX518 wins Xai in everything.


----------



## Tetsuma

texpect said:


> Imo MX518 wins Xai in everything.




Went to pick up my Xai a little while ago, only to find out they don't stock it anywhere any more (discontinued, I believe). 
Umart had no problems taking my money for it, but they had nothing when I arrived. Stock other than HDDs lost in Thailand's floods.
So, I'm waiting on one from another country currently. But rest assured, I'll post back with how they compare. I've been very tempted to get a G500/G400.


----------



## EnOYiN

texpect said:


> Imo MX518 wins Xai in everything.




I liked the Xai a lot better than my MX518 to be honest. For one thing you don't have to hold the Xai a certain way. That and I like the stuff on top of the Xai way better than the shiny plastic on top of the MX518. More preference than anything else I suppose. I have used both for over a year. Right now I'm back using my IE 3.0 though.


----------



## Tetsuma

Steelseries have some new junk at CES.
Kanza: Somewhat ugly, and looks like it was made for small hands.
Kinzu V2 and V2 Pro: *shrug*
http://steelseries.com/c/ces-2012

They also have two pair of headphones that remind me of HD25s and K701s mixed with that tacky looking material that reminds me of beats.
I don't know what it is exactly, but it is tacky in every application.

Finally, a bluetooth controller:
http://steelseries.com/blog/press/steelseries-introduces-the-ion-wireless-gaming-controller

I think i'll use it to play Gameboy/SNES games on my iphone instead of my wiimote.


----------



## gustavQ

The best combination for games is: Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 and a Qck pad.
   
  it will not disappoint, just my opinion.


----------



## Fugue

I got tired of changing batteries in my wireless trackpad mouse, so I just tried my trusty old MX 400 with my Mac OSX 10.7 and discovered that the left button double-click will not open files! I can left click and it will select the directory that I want, but once I find a file I want to open, it won't! I have to right click on it, then select "open." The settings in the Logitech Center don't seem to help--any suggestions? Thanks.


----------



## ninjikiran

I own a razer mamba and a steelseries Ikari.  With good cable management the Ikari felt wireless, problem with the Ikari was the left mouse button getting stuck double or tripple clicking after a while.
   
  The mamba is a bit too heavy, fits n your hand like a giant rock, and doesnt have the same kind of tracking in my experience.  Possible due to slightly more friction with the mouse surface.
   
  My mouse surface has taken a beating though, decided to replace both with a 9HD and Sensei.


----------



## RazorJack

Razer Deathadder.
  New version with updated sensor. Had the old one and used it extensively for fast-paced FPS/MMORPG gaming for about three years until it slowly died. The left-click button started failing. I just had to have the same mouse as I'd gotten so used to it, so it's nice they made a new version with the same shape and size but a better sensor.


----------



## bravo4588

I've been using my Logitech Anywhere MX mouse for more than over a year. SO far working well


----------



## usp45

For me I use Razer Deathadder. I have big hands and its very comfortable for gaming as well as casual use.


----------



## ninjikiran

Wooh
   
  The sensei and 9hd pad are amazing, its slick but grippy.  The mouse itself is extremely responsive without regard to CPI/DPI, and its hardware macro system is way better than what was on the Ikari.  I can finally properly bind left ctrl.
   
  Its shape is fairly standard but, in a good way.  Fits in my hand almost like a glove, the ikaris ergonomics were better though for right hand.  But this one is ambidextrous by default, find it more comfortable with left hand but most games use right handed keyboard setups.


----------



## Ra97oR

I am loving my Sensei with 4HD (smaller 9HD). I have swapped my click button in windows, but it have auto profile switching when it is in games, good for my fingers.


----------



## ostriker

love my new logitech performance MX(had the previous version but battery messed up the mouse badly, thanks to their 3 years warranty)


----------



## keenween

just ordered a g500, my wireless laptop mouse is not cutting it for serious computing/gaming


----------



## Staal

My SteelSeries Xai is dying on me after 2 years or so of extensive use. 
   
  I'm currently considering the SteelSeries Sensei (fnatic edition - sexy). Anything else I ought to consider?


----------



## treal512

I'm carrying this over from the "Latest Significant Purchase" thread.
   
  I just recently built a new i5 PC gaming rig and finally decided to cave in and by a replacement mouse for my M-BJ58 which is still in working order. Why? I don't know, but I am! Anyways, I bought the Logitech G9x and really like the mouse. One small problem, which can become a large problem if you game, is that the middle mouse button is awful. It scrolls fine, but the actual clicking down of the button is seriously gimped. I don't know what Logitech was thinking? So, I am RMAing the mouse back to Newegg for a small restocking fee and I am replacing it with something else.
   
  So far, I am really only looking at one mouse: Razer DeathAdder. It seems to have a very similar shape to my M-BJ58 and the scroll wheel button looks like it will respond easily. Can any DeathAdder owners confirm this? Does anyone else have any suggestions? I'm not looking for something expensive, fancy, LED'd out, or overly large. I have a claw grip and for tracking reasons, will not be getting the G500. Thanks for any input


----------



## Poetik

Maybe I'm a logitech fanboy but I've owned the following in order:
   
  MX518
  G5v2
  G9
  and now the G700.
   
  I think the G700 is my favorite of them all since it's super comfortable.  I honestly don't even game that much anymore but I love the look and ergonomics of the logitechs.
   
  I also use a icemat for my mousepad which is entirely made out of glass.  I believe the company changed it's name to steelseries but they still sell the same exact mousepad.  It's been going strong for 4+ years so far.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





poetik said:


> I also use a icemat for my mousepad which is entirely made out of glass.  I believe the company changed it's name to steelseries but they still sell the same exact mousepad.  It's been going strong for 4+ years so far.


 

 The product got renamed, too. 
http://faq.steelseries.com/questions/78/Wasn%27t+this+pad+once+known+as+Icemat%3F


----------



## Poetik

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> The product got renamed, too.
> http://faq.steelseries.com/questions/78/Wasn%27t+this+pad+once+known+as+Icemat%3F


 

 Good find man,
   
  It's a great mousepad.  Has anyone used a glass one and has any comparisons to a plastic / rubber they'd like to share? I honestly haven't tried any of the plastic or rubberized ones so I'm interested in how it stacks up.


----------



## Adda

Quote: 





poetik said:


> Good find man,
> 
> It's a great mousepad.  Has anyone used a glass one and has any comparisons to a plastic / rubber they'd like to share? I honestly haven't tried any of the plastic or rubberized ones so I'm interested in how it stacks up.


 


  I too have an old Icemat, this is the mousepad I have used for the longest amount of time by far.
  It's great although very noisy with some mice, today I use a Steelseries SX aluminum mat, not much difference between this and the Icemat, except the SX doens't wear down the mouse feet as quick as the Icemat and it is less noisy.
   
  Not a plastic/rubber mat but might be useful anyway.


----------



## barid

Quote: 





poetik said:


> Good find man,
> 
> It's a great mousepad.  Has anyone used a glass one and has any comparisons to a plastic / rubber they'd like to share? I honestly haven't tried any of the plastic or rubberized ones so I'm interested in how it stacks up.


 

 I've tried the Icemat, and other hard plastic surfaces (everglide? dont know if they're even around anymore), but I always come back to cloth.  Using one of those Steelseries qck+(?) pads now, but for many years I always just went with those standard old Allsop cloth pads.  Personal preference I suppose, the glass/plastic surfaces were too fast for me, I liked the control on the cloth more.


----------



## Poetik

Yea I agree with the both of you, the icemat does get a bit loud at times.  Maybe should try one of those aluminum ones since it's quieter.  Hmm, I would try to go back to a rubber one but after using a glass one for so long it would probably feel weird.


----------



## treal512

No one owns a DeathAdder or can tell me if their mouse has a favorable scroll wheel button? I need to move this to a more relevant forum.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> No one owns a DeathAdder or can tell me if their mouse has a favorable scroll wheel button? I need to move this to a more relevant forum.


 

  
  I have a DeathAdder and have used as my primary mouse for a few months now. I got it because I do a lot of gaming and I needed something that was better than wireless.
   
  So what I can tell you is this: As compared to an average mouse, the DeathAdder is better. It tracks a lot smoother. I wouldn't say it responds faster to clicks (I've never noticed it as being better or worse) but the tracking is superb. Truly first rate.
   
  Now, if you are talking about the scroll wheel's button (what happens when you press down on the scroll wheel) it works just fine and is 100% configurable, just like every other button on the mouse.
   
  However, I do have two complaints about it.
   
  1. A couple of times since I've bought it (two times that I can remember, but might be three) the software that I use to play with has crashed mid-Game when I've been playing Left 4 Dead 2. This requires a restart as the mouse will track but no buttons will respond. There might be a fix for that to give it basic fall-back, but I haven't found it. Granted, it's only happened a few times.
   
  2. The scroll wheel is not a nice scroll wheel. It's stepped, which is something I actually really strongly dislike in a scroll wheel. It doesn't have inertial scrolling like you get in a nice Logitech mouse. However, those mice tend to suck for gaming. I imagine the idea is that gamers want it to be stepped so it's harder to miss when scrolling through your inventory, but I would like a mechanical switch to give me the option. However, the performance of the mouse in other respects makes up for it.
   
  And that's where I want to just put something else in. I bought this mouse for gaming but find it a pain to switch between this and another mouse for normal use. That's fine because it's a good mouse for normal stuff, too. However, I do a lot of Photoshop work which requires precision and smooth movement. That's the place I really notice the difference. I know the tracking should be as clear to me when I'm playing an FPS but for some reason it makes brush-work in Photoshop so much easier. If you're a graphics guy and need a mouse, get a gaming mouse. They have loads of buttons and the tracking makes up for having a cord.


----------



## Eric_C

^ You could try a Logitech Anywhere MX. The scroll wheel switches between stepped and smooth (_really_ smooth) by clicking on it. Small mouse, though; maybe the larger Performance MX has the same feature?


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *DougofTheAbaci* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I have a DeathAdder and have used as my primary mouse for a few months now. I got it because I do a lot of gaming and I needed something that was better than wireless.
> ...


 

 Thanks, Doug! I don't mind a stepped scroll, so that doesn't bother me. How much pressure is needed to press and hold down the scroll button though? The tracking results you've been having is great to hear. I'm very close to buying this mouse! Sending my G9x RMA to Newegg tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Btw, the smooth scroll that the Logitechs have that you wish the DA would, is nice, but it tends to go further than you actually scroll it, or worse, it pulls (ever so slightly) back to something you passed over already. A little too fast at scrolling, I'd say.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> ^ You could try a Logitech Anywhere MX. The scroll wheel switches between stepped and smooth (_really_ smooth) by clicking on it. Small mouse, though; maybe the larger Performance MX has the same feature?


 

  
  That is the mouse I replaced with my DeathAdder. Yes, it scrolls wonderfully but tracks pathetically, which the larger version would do as well.
   
  @Treal512: Yeah, they have a down-side, but I never use a scroll ball when gaming aside from switching my DPI settings on my DeathAdder. Handiest feature EVER. As for pressure, It's say it's maybe twice the weight of the regular mouse button? Which is good because it doesn't cause accidental clicks. It's a shallow click, however, and doesn't take much pressure.


----------



## music_man

i have found a glitch in the g500. i have used it on a number of different machines and all suffer the same problem at some point. the only thing those machines had in common was the g500. so it has to be the g500.
  if the monitor is set to go to sleep or screensaver it will periodically turn back on at random. it will also turn back off in less time than windows is set for. perhaps it is dirt on the sensor. or perhaps the mouse is so sensitive that if air or whatever moves it 1/1000th of a mm it will register. i have no idea. i love this mouse though so i keep dealing with it. until the release a corded successor. also the g500 will not work in any usb 3.0 port i have tried it in. even though the ports are backward compatable. which suggests to me even more their is some quirk in this mouse.
   
  has anyone else had this issue with this mouse or other usb mouse?
  if i were to replace it what would you guys recommend? i had a xai and promptly returned it. mice most have progressed by now id think.


----------



## ChavaC

Steelpad SP + MS ie3.0 = perfect for me.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

@music_man: I used to have that happen, too. I never did figure out what was happening but, eventually, it stopped. I don't know if it's because I switched mice or did something, though.


----------



## music_man

i am now sure beyond a reasonable doubt it is this mouse. it took a long time to figure that out too. did you by chance have a g500?
   
  i also realized it can be a spec of dirt on the lense. my mouse pad is all furry lol. i will try compressed air and see if that helps. it could be a bug in the sensor though. what is happening is it is regestering "polling" when it most likely is not. unless it moved like a drop somehow which is somewhat possible. my cat banged into the wall behind the computer and instantly set it off. that is absurdly sensitive, however, all the better for gaming! you want a sensitive mouse you got it!


----------



## Eric_C

Just found a Razer eXactMat in a store for $10! Score.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





music_man said:


> i am now sure beyond a reasonable doubt it is this mouse. it took a long time to figure that out too. did you by chance have a g500?


 

  
  No, but it was a Logitech mouse so it might have something to do with their ****ty software. I should also say I am a Mac user, not a Windows user.


----------



## Cakebaker

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> No, but it was a Logitech mouse so it might have something to do with their ****ty software. I should also say I am a Mac user, not a Windows user.


 

 There's a huge difference in Logitech's Mac and PC software, might have been a partial reason. OSX flavor is a bit of an after thought from Logitech.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





cakebaker said:


> There's a huge difference in Logitech's Mac and PC software, might have been a partial reason. OSX flavor is a bit of an after thought from Logitech.


 

  
  Oh, I can believe that. One of the reasons I didn't seriously consider Ultimate Ears when I was looking at CIEMs was because they were bought by Logitech. I'm not overly impressed with the other things they sell and while UE has always had a good reputation, I can't help but wonder if the quality has stayed the same over the acquisition. I mean, UE now sells loads of really cheap UIEMs where they didn't really before.


----------



## music_man

dang, i would not consider ue high end anymore then. i did not know this. i like this mouse but it's gotta go. it is stressing a very expensive display. logitech's answer is to always send a free one. that's there only answer duh. i have had like five lol. i hated the xai because i need right handed. so what is there in a high end mouse?
   
  btw, i read another forum said it could be the mouse pad. went out and got a real good pad. made no difference.


----------



## Eric_C

^ Could you elaborate on "stressing a very expensive display"?
  Off the top of my head, 2 right-handed I can think of is the super-popular Razer Death Adder, and the SteelSeries Ikari Optical.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

I've never used a SS mouse but I have to say I do love my DA. I quite like the ergonomics and it glides quite smoothly. Though, if anyone does have a SS mouse I'd be interested in hearing more about it.


----------



## Eric_C

I use a Xai. It's ok, but I think its size relative to my medium-to-small hands makes it a little uncomfy for prolonged sessions...oh well. Bought it cos I'm a sucker for its clean aesthetics.
   
  Have only had it about 2 months tho. It's holding up fine mechanically, side button placement's good and the scroll wheel is soft-stepped--tactile enough for scrolling through weapons in-game without undue effort or accidents.
   
  In case anyone's interested in using it for a Mac: you'll have to DIY key rebindings. SS makes no effort to have this a OS X-friendly mouse. Thankfully, there's a free program that you can use...But I can't remember the name. I'll check it when I get home, if anybody needs to know.


----------



## music_man

eric. it is cycling on off a lcd display constantly. that is more hours on the backlight and panel. thus, more wear. afaik. it is a eizo. if this is fine for the display than i did not know this.


----------



## Elysian

I have a love-hate relationship with the Logitech G700.  It's the buggiest mouse I've ever used, but it's ergonomically comfortable.  The Windows implementation seems worse than the Mac.  The additional mouse buttons are awkward to press.  If Logitech can't get its act together, my next mouse will be a Razer Naga.  The only reason I've stuck around is their great customer support and replacement policy.


----------



## Adda

I had an SteelSeries Ikari, after about two years the wheel button started acting up, making tens of clicks every time I pushed it.
  No more warranty so I took it apart to replace that button, only to find it was of a cheaper brand then the other buttons (why?).
  I'm fairly handy with a soldering iron, but this button I couldn't remove without ruining the PCB.
   
  Good thing I have my IME3, and found it to be much more smooth and accurate, buttons have been replaced a few times in this mouse, no problem at all, took some time getting used to the low dpi though.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





music_man said:


> eric. it is cycling on off a lcd display constantly. that is more hours on the backlight and panel. thus, more wear. afaik. it is a eizo. if this is fine for the display than i did not know this.


 


  Oh I see, it's about the mouse causing your monitor to wake up from sleep mode by itself? That doesn't sound healthy for the display; just thinking of it like a lightbulb, the greatest strain on a light is at the power on/off phase, so constantly waking up your display would be like going through many on/off cycles in a short period of time.
   
  I can't think of any reason why this would be an intentional feature. The mouse may be glitched.
  Have you tried using a different mouse to see if your display wakes up by itself?


----------



## Astrozombie

When i scroll down with this mouse the page jumps back up every so often, anyone else have that happen?


----------



## music_man

different mouse works fine. another g500, same problem on any machine i have tried. i found a solution on modern motherboards though just last night. disable "hpet" in the bios power management. no one i have asked knows what "hpet" is or does. the wiki artical does not really explain what it "does" either. it just explains what it is. anyways it works and seems to have made no negative impact on the machines. nonetheless logitech should get their act together. i love the feel and layout of the g500. much more than the g700 in fact. the darn thing is buggy though. not as bad as steel series. i called them in chicago and the dude did not even know they had a telephone! i mean come on. i really prefer a laser though as i rarely game. i have enough machine to play battlefield2 and a might try it but i never really got addicted to games. even though i prefer gaming mice as they just tend to be better. usually. that old logitech mouse(don't remember the model) with the infrared sensor was classic. lately they have been blowing it. it seems all the companies have as of late.
   
  wearing out buttons? you guy's are hardcore!


----------



## music_man

omg, hpet is a problem with a lot of things. it is more precise clock control but can cause many problems. i always had the mouse problem. i also always had potplayer or foobar start hiccuping after a few hours. i disabled hpet last night. i just noticed potplayer has been going 17 hours! some boards give you no choice then you are sol. info on the internet is very hard to find. mostly says with hpet off game latency increased a lot. i'd leave the timing to the cpu even if perhaps it is not as precise. if you have a choice. i am gathering the problem is it ties up an interrupt that other devices may call upon. that seems to be where a problem arises. like i said info is scarce but i just spent half an hour looking. hope that helps anyone.


----------



## JDeep

Razer Mamba here.


----------



## keph

Logitech G700 here...


----------



## music_man

may have spoken too soon. came back after 1/2 hour and monitor was on and music off! dammit!
   
  i wanted to mention a nice mouse pad but not for gaming. mouserug.com. gaming a piece of quartz tile is great.


----------



## Ryolith

I've got an old razer lachesis.  Razer mice are really good


----------



## music_man

ok, i figured out some very intresting stuff on my own. i taped the mouse in place with strapping tape. video recorded the display for several hours. did not turn on once with hpet enabled! turns out the mouse is being moved by it's cord(no weights installed). it takes a fraction of a mm to register this mouse. so, sorry for blaming it on logitech even though it is sort of their fault. the cord is braided and heavy.
   
  now, remember i said hpet is an internal clock reculator? meanwhile reclock encountered many errors. the music started to stutter non stop after a couple hours. hpet is much more precise than the cpu clock. hence "high precision". the tradeoff is it is much too slow for applications like reclock. sorry to speak so much about all this. i hope it helps some one. remember though, hpet is forced on some boards and not an option! of course not everyone uses a upsampler and/or wasapi. in fact hpet may be too slow for wasapi itslef. it is an up counter and does not reset. errors just collect and are not checked. imo, this kind of sucks. it is higher precision only to a point and much slower.


----------



## louis12345

Zowie EC1 + Razer Destructor
   
  Had a Razer Imperator, but the left button broke for some reason, got a cash back and wanted to try the Zowie EC1 =>
  The EC1 haves better ergonomics, I kept it


----------



## ivantoar

Currently using Logitech MX518 revised version (1800 dpi). Amazing build quality I must say. Previously used Razer Diamondback 3G but for no reason the left mouse button just broke. It was a fun mouse and I really wished I could buy one when mine broke, but too bad it's discontinued  So MX518 for now


----------



## strannik

Quote: 





keph said:


> Logitech G700 here...


 
   
  I've been meaning to get the G700 for a while. Have you ever experienced the issue where very small mouse movements do not move the mouse pointer on the screen? There have been a quite a few people online complaining about this one.


----------



## Elysian

I have two G700s (used on Win7 and OS X) and have not experienced that issue.


----------



## strannik

Quote: 





elysian said:


> I have two G700s (used on Win7 and OS X) and have not experienced that issue.


 

 Ah that's good to know. I'm still a bit worried about the comfort though, what happens to your ring finger when using the G700 mouse? Is it sitting on the right button, the ridge of the frame, or on the side of the mouse alongside the pinky?
   
  I'm currently using quite an old Logitech MX518 right now, and it has a nice big ridge for the ring finger to rest on. It looks like the G700 also has it, but it's quite a bit smaller. I'm just a bit worried about hand fatigue if the mouse requires a strange grip.


----------



## music_man

answer is to lower the dpi on the mouse. i had it at 5000 and do not really need it that high. so honestly it was not the mouses fault. just because something has high specs does not mean they can be used in all situations. i am guessing my ceiling fan was actually moving it! i hope no one minds i mentioned all this. perhaps it helps some one with a similar situation.


----------



## Elysian

Quote: 





strannik said:


> Ah that's good to know. I'm still a bit worried about the comfort though, what happens to your ring finger when using the G700 mouse? Is it sitting on the right button, the ridge of the frame, or on the side of the mouse alongside the pinky?
> 
> I'm currently using quite an old Logitech MX518 right now, and it has a nice big ridge for the ring finger to rest on. It looks like the G700 also has it, but it's quite a bit smaller. I'm just a bit worried about hand fatigue if the mouse requires a strange grip.


 

 The normal mouse function (left, right, mousewheel) are comfortable to use, but the side buttons feel a bit awkward, especially compared to the ergonomics I'm used to from the G5 and G500.  I think the G700 is better for people who don't have small hands, as it is a bit large/bulky.  I really recommend using it wireless.  The G700 glides much easier when the cord's not attached, even if there's nothing weighing the cord down.
   
  My ring finger is pressed alongside the right side of the mouse, next to my pinky.  My pinky fingertip also rests lightly against the side of the mouse (positioned so that my pinky fingernail is directly under the bottom of the last segment of my ring finger).  Only my index and middle fingers rest on top of the mouse.  This way, my thumb is lightly pressed against the left side of the mouse, and my ring finger and pinky are pressed against the right side of the mouse.  The feet are pretty frictionless compared to your average mouse, so you can get away with gripping it loosely.
   
  I have the sensitivity turned way up, so I can control the vertical of the mouse with just my thumb, ring finger, and pinky (or with my index and middle finger, in addition, to pull the mouse towards me).  I never have to move my wrist.  Actually, come to think of it, I manipulate the G700 differently than a typical mouse, probably due to the unusual form.
   
  Comfortwise, it's fine.  I've used the mouse for 5+ hours at a time without any pain or stress.  The mouse is a bit bulky though, so it takes a little while to get used to.  I prefer oversized mice, though, as I have fairly long fingers.  The MX518 is too small for me.
   
  It's too bad you weren't shopping for one during Black Friday.  They dropped to $50 on Amazon.
   
  My main gripe with the G700 is the battery life is garbage with the stock battery.  On normal settings, after a few months, the battery lasts for less than 12 hours.  I need to charge mine every night.  The previous high-end Logitech model's battery reportedly lasted for 20+ hours between changes.  Some people have reported an improvement with a higher capacity battery, but I just remember to charge mine every night.
   
  Despite all my griping, I do like the mouse.  I just wish it wasn't so buggy, and that it wasn't such a battery hog.


----------



## strannik

Awesome, thanks for the info. I have pretty large hands, so this might actually work out well. It would seem my usual head-fi feeling of "why can't I try these things before I buy them?" now has spread to mice as well 
  
  Quote: 





elysian said:


> The normal mouse function (left, right, mousewheel) are comfortable to use, but the side buttons feel a bit awkward, especially compared to the ergonomics I'm used to from the G5 and G500.  I think the G700 is better for people who don't have small hands, as it is a bit large/bulky.  I really recommend using it wireless.  The G700 glides much easier when the cord's not attached, even if there's nothing weighing the cord down.
> 
> My ring finger is pressed alongside the right side of the mouse, next to my pinky.  My pinky fingertip also rests lightly against the side of the mouse (positioned so that my pinky fingernail is directly under the bottom of the last segment of my ring finger).  Only my index and middle fingers rest on top of the mouse.  This way, my thumb is lightly pressed against the left side of the mouse, and my ring finger and pinky are pressed against the right side of the mouse.  The feet are pretty frictionless compared to your average mouse, so you can get away with gripping it loosely.
> 
> ...


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





music_man said:


> answer is to lower the dpi on the mouse. i had it at 5000 and do not really need it that high. so honestly it was not the mouses fault. just because something has high specs does not mean they can be used in all situations. i am guessing my ceiling fan was actually moving it! i hope no one minds i mentioned all this. perhaps it helps some one with a similar situation.


 


  Wow. I can't imagine using a mouse at 5000 dpi! I've got mine on ~2500 and even that throws my aim off in some games.


----------



## ivantoar

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Wow. I can't imagine using a mouse at 5000 dpi! I've got mine on ~2500 and even that throws my aim off in some games.


 

 Maybe you just need to get used to it. I have a friend who came from 800 dpi and just recently using 3600 dpi. He handles 3600 dpi better than me in just few weeks even though I used higher dpi mouse (1800 dpi) at least 4 years before he switched his mouse.


----------



## Eric_C

^ True, but...5000 dpi. *5000*. Good grief.


----------



## ivantoar

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> ^ True, but...5000 dpi. *5000*. Good grief.


 


  Yes, I think 5000 dpi is an overkill. Why would one need such high dpi mouse? Well, I don't know, I never used screen bigger than 19 inch so I don't see the importance of having such high dpi. 1800 is great and 3600 is something that I will limit myself to if I want to buy a new mouse.


----------



## music_man

it goes up to 5700 lol. here is the problem though. at say 1800 everything works great. 22" display. it is too slow even with windows speed slider maxed. perhaps i need to install the software for the mouse and use that speed control. i really don't like extra processes though. so is there any way i can get good speed on a 22" display at like 2000 dpi or less? honestly it is not even fast at 5000! perhaps this is just a bum mouse and that is also why it turns on the monitor too. logitech would love to send me another one. i already know that much. oh wait, also i read the slider in windows should not be above 6 or something for gaming. due to acceleration. so how the heck does one put the dpi at a reasonable rate and get enough speed? i am stumped on this and it should be simple.


----------



## Eric_C

music_man:
   
  I found this discussion on a Logitech forum about the G500 (that is your mouse, right?) http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/What-are-your-Gaming-Surfing-G500-settings/td-p/568862
   
  I know you may not *like* the extra processes involved, but why not try installing the official software? It might sort out your issues, and it is the way the manufacturer intended the mouse to be used.


----------



## music_man

ok i will try it. it just seems stupid to me that there is a 40mb driver for a mouse! well, it is not exactly a $5 mouse either. so i suppose thats why. perhaps i could look at it like not installing an intel usb driver on an intel motherboard.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

The one thing I'll say that's nice about higher DPI mice is that it's sort of the same reason you get a Porsche or BMW: It's knowing it can perform at such a higher level that you know it'll perform flawlessly at the lower level you actually use it at.
   
  It's the same reason audiophiles buy the best headphones they can afford and why people over-clock their computers.


----------



## yliu

Quote: 





elysian said:


> I have two G700s (used on Win7 and OS X) and have not experienced that issue.


 


  I heard that the G700 is not compatible with Macs... Basically no Logitech gaming mouse is made for mac, that's why I use Razer.


----------



## Poetik

Quote: 





ivantoar said:


> Yes, I think 5000 dpi is an overkill. Why would one need such high dpi mouse? Well, I don't know, I never used screen bigger than 19 inch so I don't see the importance of having such high dpi. 1800 is great and 3600 is something that I will limit myself to if I want to buy a new mouse.


 

 Because some people want to use equipment that is better than below average / mediocre.  Not everyone will be happy with a trackball mouse and a 15 inch crt monitor man.


----------



## EnOYiN

poetik said:


> Because some people want to use equipment that is better than below average / mediocre.  Not everyone will be happy with a trackball mouse and a 15 inch crt monitor man.




Very high DPI isn't useful whatsoever though. Even if you're using a monitor with like a 2560x1440 it won't be needed (although you might need at least 2500 DPI for that) DPI is mostly just a marketing gimmick.


----------



## barid

Quote: 





poetik said:


> Because some people want to use equipment that is better than below average / mediocre.  Not everyone will be happy with a trackball mouse and a 15 inch crt monitor man.


 
   
  While I agree with your sentiment, I feel in that high DPI mice are overkill.  I mean a SteelSeries Sensei has like 11,400 dpi, does a top of the line LCD/LED even have that many horizontal or vertical pixels at native resolution? 
   
  I don't know, to each their own.  Badass hardware is always fun, whether it makes a functional difference or not....


----------



## Poetik

I guess you guys are right with the super high 11,400 dpi, I can't even imagine my mouse being twice as fast haha.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

I stand by my statement. Tech that can do far and above what you ask it to is less likely to mess up when you ask it to do less than it's capable of.


----------



## music_man

well i installed setpoint put it to 900dpi and the slider on 7 no acceleration. monitor problem appears fixed! knock on wood. i think just my pets and stuff walking around were enough to move the mouse on such high sensitivity. i actually saw the mouse pointer moving not touching it! windows controls kind of force you to run very high dpi if you want it at six on a 22" display. to avoid acceleration. i guess i was like the jerk with the porsche that actually does drive 200mph everywhere. it is true that the prosche has no problem whatsoever at 80mph. if you drive the $5 mouse/hyundai 80mph it's already maxed out. i get the point. so now i should be all good. thanks guys. only thing is another 40mb of app i didn't wish for. no biggie.
   
  sensei? hmm. must check out.


----------



## yawny

Geez, I don't think I've ever even had to mess with the software on my G500, like the G5 I had before it. Logitech makes some good, durable mice, and the weights are nice in a set-and-forget kinda way. $60 well spent, but in all fairness, I still use my old Microsoft Comfort Keyboard. I'm just so used to it. 
   
  As far as dpi, I think I run it at 2100 or whatever the stock"3" setting is. My resolution is 1920x1080 and anything higher feels like its out of control. However, the keyboard/mouse tray on my desk is really small, and at 2x00, whatever it's at, dpi, I can get all around the screen with the 2" of movement I have in each direction.


----------



## treal512

I just got the new 20,000 dpi mouse!


----------



## ivantoar

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> I just got the new 20,000 dpi mouse!


 

 It's over 9000! But seriously, 2,000 or 20,000?


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Don't think there is a 20,000 dpi mouse. Surely if there was Razer or SteelSeries would have a variant but they top out at a quarter of that.


----------



## ivantoar

Maybe he's being sarcastic


----------



## Elysian

Quote: 





yliu said:


> I heard that the G700 is not compatible with Macs... Basically no Logitech gaming mouse is made for mac, that's why I use Razer.


 

 Nope, works fine on the MBP, wired and wireless.  Didn't install any drivers either, though I did go into terminal to turn off mouse acceleration.


----------



## treal512

Quote:


ivantoar said:


> Maybe he's being sarcastic


 
   
  Maybe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Don't think there is a 20,000 dpi mouse. Surely if there was Razer or SteelSeries would have a variant but they top out at a quarter of that.


 
   
  My black DA should be here tomorrow!


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Welcome to the club!
   
  By the way, did no one else buy the DeathAdder Black edition and feel the urge to say, "wibble, wibble"?


----------



## treal512

Wibble, huh?


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Wibble.


----------



## treal512

I just got the black DeathAdder delivered yesterday. It is noticeably larger than my old M-BJ58 and the returned G9x, from what I recall. I'm getting used to it. It is very comfortable for casual browsing in the palm grip and seems to be fairly compatible (definitely made for the palm grip though) for my gaming claw grip as well. Scroll wheel button clicking is much lighter than the G9x I returned, but it is still a bit stiff. Hopefully that loosens up as I use it more. My only complaint so far is that buttons 4 and 5, with 5 being closer to the back, is a little too low and/or close to my thumb. Not sure if I'll be keeping this mouse either, but the scroll wheel button's tension is a big plus. That, IMO, was the only flaw on the G9x. For shame, Logitech.


----------



## treal512

I haven't gamed in 3 or 4 days, but after playing today, it finalized it. I'm returning the DA 
   
  The scroll wheel button is much better than (still not satisfactory) the G9x, but now another design aspect is really bothering me. The front right corner where you right ring finger and pinky go does not have enough support for me. I'm really nit picking right now, but bottom line, this mouse isn't too friendly for the claw grip when you're sniping. I can see how one would make due with it as is, but I can get free shipping on the return. I wish I could put this scroll wheel button on the G9x and I would be set, but nooo. Guess I'll hunt for my next mouse in a brick and mortar. BB or Frys will probably do. That or I'm sticking with my old school Logitech.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Unless both carry a wide array of gaming mice I wouldn't bother. I'd say see what SteelSeries has to offer.


----------



## treal512

Yea, may do that. I keep hearing about them, but haven't really given it much thought.
   
  Do any of their models come close to the G9x form/size?


----------



## music_man

i finally figured out the problem with the g500 waking the display. it is so sensitive. even at 900 dpi. the slightest vibration on the floor by the desk makes it register. every time a cat walks by it goes off. i figure that is one precise mouse then. not so great for monitor wear though. at 900 dpi it happens a lot less. i might go down to like 400 and see what happens. i really like this mosue so that is why i amd ealing with it. btw, i like the g500 better than the g9x. scroll wheel unlock on the bottom maybe good for games but not much else. i do use that button to switch back and forth a lot. the g700 has more buttons but they do not click like the g500.


----------



## Emporio

This is what i use! My Naga for my MMORPGS, Mamba 2012 for some hardcore gaming and Abyssus is really my spare, Mamba took over it


----------



## Staal

What's that green light keyboard Emporio?


----------



## Emporio

That's the wireless thingy / Charging dock for the middle mouse, the Razer Mamba. You can pick the color for both the mouse and the charging dock ^^


----------



## fatcat28037

Just a plaid old Microsoft cordless but note the wear pattern


----------



## Emporio

That wear pattern... gives it a nice finishing touch!


----------



## Staal

Quote: 





emporio said:


> That's the wireless thingy / Charging dock for the middle mouse, the Razer Mamba. You can pick the color for both the mouse and the charging dock ^^







   
  Huh? To the left, that's clearly a keyboard?


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





emporio said:


> This is what i use! My Naga for my MMORPGS, Mamba 2012 for some hardcore gaming and Abyssus is really my spare, Mamba took over it


 

 Thanks for the picture. It helps with size comparisons. Which mouse is on the very left? Naga?
   
  I'm shipping my DA back tomorrow. I liked the higher DPI, so I'm still on the hunt. Mouse #3!


----------



## davidgotsa

I'm just using a regular Apple Magic mouse at the moment. I think it's perfect for Macs but I could see how lots of people wouldn't find it comfortable to use at all.


----------



## Eric_C

You don't find the Magic Mouse too flat?


----------



## Emporio

Quote: 





staal said:


> Huh? To the left, that's clearly a keyboard?


 

 Yea that's my Alienware Tactx keyboard! It has 16 colors or so to choose from, picked green cause it is on of my fav! The mouse looks great in green too!


----------



## Emporio

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Thanks for the picture. It helps with size comparisons. Which mouse is on the very left? Naga?
> 
> I'm shipping my DA back tomorrow. I liked the higher DPI, so I'm still on the hunt. Mouse #3!


 


  From left to right: Razer Abyssus, Razer Mamba 2012, Razer Naga. The Razer Mamba has up to 6400 DPI!


----------



## davidgotsa

No. At first I didn't buy it because as you said, it's pretty flat. But then I actually noticed that I never rested my hand on my mouse anyway so I ended up buying the Magic Mouse and I love it. 
   
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> You don't find the Magic Mouse too flat?


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

The two reasons I don't use my Magic Mouse anymore is 1) It's not very sensitive and 2) it sucks for gaming.
   
  Otherwise, I loved it.


----------



## mark2410

any one know what is the largest mouse?


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Mamba is the biggest mouse I've ever personally come across. There may be bigger that I haven't but the Mamba is a large, high-quality mouse.


----------



## Emporio

I agree, the mamba is large and it's amazing to use!


----------



## celcius

I'm still lovin my good old mx518


----------



## music_man

i love all the functions and fit of the g500. the power bug is killing me. i might go get my mx518 out of the drawer already. before my monitor is dead. i also have been told the mx518 is more precise than the g500. id want that new steel series but the both hand design is too uncomfortable for me. coming from a g500 any recommendations for a upgrade? naturally would be the g700 but it does not have tactile buttons. so i don't like it. i am thinking of plugging the g500 into a powered usb hub. perhaps that will fix the power bug. i really like the mouse but i like my monitor better.


----------



## Tetsuma

Xai hasn't arrived (been a month sadface), back to my back-up's back-up. Good ol' MS 1.1. Forgot how good this mouse is.


----------



## Phos

mark2410 said:


> any one know what is the largest mouse?


 


  The hand shoe mouse is the biggest I know of. 
   


  Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Thanks for the picture. It helps with size comparisons. Which mouse is on the very left? Naga?
> 
> I'm shipping my DA back tomorrow. I liked the higher DPI, so I'm still on the hunt. Mouse #3!


 


  What didn't you like about the DA?


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





phos said:


> What didn't you like about the DA?


 

 I made 2 posts on the DA, but mainly, the size was too large (nice for palm grippers) and the area where you rest your ring and pinky finger slopes off to the point where it causes fatigue when claw gripping the mouse during FPS sniping. Nice mouse overall, but not really for a claw gripper unless you have really big hands or you settle for anything that clicks. I've just been using my old M-BJ58 since with no issues. I'm going to visit a local store to handle mouses before I buy a 3rd one.
   
   
  Quote: 





treal512 said:


> I just got the black DeathAdder delivered yesterday. It is noticeably larger than my old M-BJ58 and the returned G9x, from what I recall. I'm getting used to it. It is very comfortable for casual browsing in the palm grip and seems to be fairly compatible (definitely made for the palm grip though) for my gaming claw grip as well. Scroll wheel button clicking is much lighter than the G9x I returned, but it is still a bit stiff. Hopefully that loosens up as I use it more. My only complaint so far is that buttons 4 and 5, with 5 being closer to the back, is a little too low and/or close to my thumb. Not sure if I'll be keeping this mouse either, but the scroll wheel button's tension is a big plus. That, IMO, was the only flaw on the G9x. For shame, Logitech.


 
  Quote: 





treal512 said:


> I haven't gamed in 3 or 4 days, but after playing today, it finalized it. I'm returning the DA
> 
> The scroll wheel button is much better than (still not satisfactory) the G9x, but now another design aspect is really bothering me. The front right corner where you right ring finger and pinky go does not have enough support for me. I'm really nit picking right now, but bottom line, this mouse isn't too friendly for the claw grip when you're sniping. I can see how one would make due with it as is, but I can get free shipping on the return. I wish I could put this scroll wheel button on the G9x and I would be set, but nooo. Guess I'll hunt for my next mouse in a brick and mortar. BB or Frys will probably do. That or I'm sticking with my old school Logitech.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

The software that runs my Death Adder died last night mid-game. Such a lovely thing... If there's anything that will make me leave Razer and go to someone else it's that.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> I made 2 posts on the DA, but mainly, the size was too large (nice for palm grippers) and the area where you rest your ring and pinky finger slopes off to the point where it causes fatigue when claw gripping the mouse during FPS sniping. Nice mouse overall, but not really for a claw gripper unless you have really big hands or you settle for anything that clicks. I've just been using my old M-BJ58 since with no issues. I'm going to visit a local store to handle mouses before I buy a 3rd one.


 

 The Abyussus has the same sensor as the DA, it's one to look at, though I've heard a lot of them have issues with cursor jitter.
   

  
  Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> The software that runs my Death Adder died last night mid-game. Such a lovely thing... If there's anything that will make me leave Razer and go to someone else it's that.


 

 You don't really need the software.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

When the software dies it refuses to accept clicks from any buttons.
   
  Anyway, I updated the firmware today. We'll see if that makes it behave itself.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> When the software dies it refuses to accept clicks from any buttons.
> 
> Anyway, I updated the firmware today. We'll see if that makes it behave itself.


 

 I mean uninstall it.  If it isn't on your computer it can't crash.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Then it limits the DPI it can do and the polling rate.


----------



## Tetsuma

If you're on Win7/Vista/XP you can permanently set the polling rate to 500hz or 1khz.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Then it limits the DPI it can do and the polling rate.


 

 The last settings you save with the software are stored on the mouse, I believe.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

That's part of the issue. I use it in Windows and OS X.


----------



## Tetsuma

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> That's part of the issue. I use it in Windows and OS X.


 


  USB prober for OSX, I believe is it's name.
  Plenty of options for windows. Try google.


----------



## music_man

i don't know if you guys read my other thread. the g500 was absolutely not the issue with the monitor sleeping as it turned out. i am sorry to everyone and logitech that i blamed it on the mouse. i am elated now since i simply love this mouse. i have tried almost every modern mouse and this one just fits my hand(palmed) like a glove. i couldn't say if it is great for gaming but for web development and browsing it is my dream mouse. the biggest feature i use is the dual mode scroll wheel. that is a huge feature to me. i do prefer it to the g700 because the g500 has much more of a "click" on the buttons. even though the g700 has more buttons. anyways, i highly recommend this mouse now. of course ymmv. plus i have found no bugs in setpoint. i cannot say that at all for steel series for instance.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





tetsuma said:


> USB prober for OSX, I believe is it's name.
> Plenty of options for windows. Try google.


 

  
  Thank you, because I wasn't aware that there was third-party software for OS X or Windows.


----------



## surflien

I have to say R.A.T 7 is pretty cool...


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Too bad it looks like a Michael Bay movie gone horribly wrong.
   
  I swear, if you ever want to see an area of the tech industry where it's blatantly clear no one involved has had even a little training in design just look at the gaming industry...


----------



## strannik

I was actually planning to get one, until some review pointed out that it's incredibly low profile mouse. Not very tall at all, and this cannot be adjusted. Some people might be ok with this, but with my hands, I'd probably get cramps after a few minutes.
  
  Quote: 





surflien said:


> I have to say R.A.T 7 is pretty cool...


----------



## tdockweiler

Logitech MX518 here. Funny because I stopped playing PC games. No way ever I'd buy another expensive  mouse. Something decent from Logitech is good enough for me. I've always hated wireless mice due to lag.
   
  I wonder if anyone will actually use a full sized PC with monitor in 20 years? So sad how everything has gotten so dumbed down. By then everyone will be using the Ipad Version 20 as a "computer".


----------



## Tetsuma

dougoftheabaci said:


> Thank you, because I wasn't aware that there was third-party software for OS X or Windows.


 
  -edit: **** it, not worth the keystrokes.


----------



## Phos

The RAT mice also use the philips twin eye, not a great sensor.


----------



## Crossfire23

Razer Deathadder


----------



## ivantoar

Quote: 





crossfire23 said:


> Razer Deathadder


 


  How I miss my Diamondback 3G... Owned one myself and it's the most comfortable mouse I've ever use (due to my relatively small hands).


----------



## Phos

That's a Diamondback...  And I miss mine too.


----------



## ivantoar

Why did I follow that guy calling that mouse Deathadder instead of Diamondback... *facepalm*
   
  Anyway, to fellow MX518 owners, have you guys tried the Logitech G400? I tried it yesterday and it is great! The same size and shape like MX518 with nearly the same price like MX518 was but with all black finish and higher dpi. Awesome!


----------



## treal512

ivantoar, how is the scroll wheel button? Is it hard to press or fairly light? Please give me details and/or a scale!


----------



## treal512

Damn, nvm. Tons of reviews on how awful it is. I don't understand these companies anymore. Sticking with my OG mouse.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

You know, given how much you liked the DeathAdder you could always just buy one and pop it open and fiddle with the resistance mechanism on the mouse wheel? I've debated doing that numerous times for how it scrolls. Just haven't gotten bothered enough to do it yet.


----------



## Phos

If you're handy with a soldering iron it's 3 joints to replace it with a stiffer encoder.  This one, for example.  
   
  This is with the DA, of course.  G400 works differently.


----------



## ivantoar

Quote:


treal512 said:


> ivantoar, how is the scroll wheel button? Is it hard to press or fairly light? Please give me details and/or a scale!


 

  
  It feels exactly just like MX518 and not as hard as Diamondback 3G. Clicking the scroll wheel button won't take so much effort while it's not overly soft that you misclicked so much. In my opinion, the scroll wheel is quite comfortable for browsing (well you know, clicking it to open links new tab).
   
  If you like the MX518, you'll like the G400. Can't say much about the awful reviews, might be due to different preference. IMO it fits me better than Deathadder. Tried it at my friend's place and I think it's too big and the scroll button is somewhat bad.


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





strannik said:


> I was actually planning to get one, until some review pointed out that it's incredibly low profile mouse. Not very tall at all, and this cannot be adjusted. Some people might be ok with this, but with my hands, I'd probably get cramps after a few minutes.


 

 I felt the exact same way but decided to give it a try....
   
  It's the best damn mouse I have ever used! Despite the low profile, it's extremely comfortable and I have found that my K/D ratio has become much, much better since I got mine. I always go even or better now.
   
  I also love the custom profiles and I have created some for my mastering programs and other common programs I use. It's a great mouse and it looks really cool IMHO.


----------



## AudioSonus

I use a Gigabyte M6900.
  Tried a Razer Lachesis for a week, then sold it. The matte finishing was already wearing out extremely fast. Not to mention the side buttons were a bit hard to press.


----------



## keph

Just got a R.A.T 7 hours ago and i'm liking it so much...i used to have the G700 but since my girlfriend gave me a new mouse my G700 is now being used my my lil brother...


----------



## LFF

R.A.T. 7 FTW!!!!


----------



## treal512

Hey keph and LFF, how much pressure (on a scale from 1-10) does it take to press down the middle scroll wheel button? Any comparisons would be nice too. Thanks! It looks nice.. kind of grows on ya.


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Hey keph and LFF, how much pressure (on a scale from 1-10) does it take to press down the middle scroll wheel button? Any comparisons would be nice too. Thanks! It looks nice.. kind of grows on ya.


 

 I'd say a 5. It feels just right,,,,


----------



## keph

yup 4-5 its softer then my g700..


----------



## treal512

Thanks.
   
  How long have you had yours, LFF? I've read a lot of reviews of the mouse falling apart after a year o_O


----------



## Shogunner

-snip-


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> How long have you had yours, LFF? I've read a lot of reviews of the mouse falling apart after a year o_O


 


  Had it for about two months now. I'm not an aggressive gamer, but at the moment, it's great. I don't bash my mouse while gaming either....so we'll see how it holds up.


----------



## Ra97oR

Really love my Sensei too, great lift off distance improvement over the Xai and the finish is just awesome.


----------



## ninjikiran

I still think the ikari is more comfy but being able to go left again is a real boon. 
   
  On top of that its accurate enough to keep with my reflexes, which can put me on the top spot of the leader boards even if I havent played in awhile.


----------



## ivantoar

Is that Xai and Sensei great for FPS games?


----------



## Ra97oR

I only really play FPS games so yes, very accurate. Even more so than my old Deathadder.


----------



## keph

i also almost bought Sensei instead of R.A.T 7 but since its my girlfriend who bought it for me she said the Sensei looks like a 5$mouse (sorry normally girls don't care about anything else but LOOKS)..somehow the R.A.T 7 for me is not that comfy to grip (not used to) since im used to G700 which is a quit high profile mouse insted of a low one..


----------



## ZMeshign

I currently use one of these:
   

   
  The Razer "Naga", Molten...


----------



## Shogunner

Quote: 





keph said:


> i also almost bought Sensei instead of R.A.T 7 but since its my girlfriend who bought it for me she said the Sensei looks like a 5$mouse (sorry normally girls don't care about anything else but LOOKS)..somehow the R.A.T 7 for me is not that comfy to grip (not used to) since im used to G700 which is a quit high profile mouse insted of a low one..


 


  Well that's a shame, personally I don't dig the look of the RAT7, too ricey for me.  Also I had a friend who did the G700 to Sensei switch, and he says the Sensei feels like an extension of his hand now. I personally feel the same coming from the G9.


----------



## loremipsum

Been using a Logitech G400 for about a month, it's great.


----------



## Fugue

I just bought a Logitech Performance MX--so far, so good!


----------



## bravo4588

Quote: 





fugue said:


> I just bought a Logitech Performance MX--so far, so good!


 

 I've ordered one for me @ Pixmania.com for €60
  will get it this Tuesday.


----------



## JDeep

Hows the grip on the sensi? I'm thinking about trashing my mamba for that.
  
  Quote: 





shogunner said:


> Took some pictures of my Sensei, I ******* love this thing so far.


----------



## Shogunner

It's good. A bit weird coming from the Xai but I can't look back now. The only thing is it gets a bit smudgy after a few hours but its easy to clean.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

I saw on their website that they are making a non-metallic one. Not sure of the spec difference aside from casing, though.


----------



## Shogunner

The lights are white and it only holds two DPI settings instead of there being a screen on the bottom that can hold 10 in total. Not worth it, might as well try to get a Xai used or something for cheaper.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Hmm. The only feature that would stop me leaving my Death Adder is the fact that I can push down on the scroll-wheel, scroll and have my sensitivity go up or down in small increments. Not very handy when I'm doing normal stuff, essential when I'm gaming.


----------



## EnOYiN

dougoftheabaci said:


> I saw on their website that they are making a non-metallic one. Not sure of the spec difference aside from casing, though.




It will not have the processor in it and it will be cheaper. What that comes down to is that you won't have the ability to store settings on your mouse. So unless you're going to several LAN events every year where you are using a computer which isn't your own there is no real reason to buy the more expensive one. That's what I've been able to gather anyway.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Might look into it, then. I keep having issues where the Deathadder software on Windows keeps crashing mid-game, forcing me to log out then log back in.
   
  Ironically, under OS X my Deathadder runs perfectly.


----------



## ninjikiran

The Xai, Sensei, Ikari, Generic Microsoft optical mouse. 
   
  All of them feel 100 times better than the mamba, the thing just did not fit my hadn like a glove.  perhaps its my small hands but I hated it.


----------



## JDeep

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> The Xai, Sensei, Ikari, Generic Microsoft optical mouse.
> 
> All of them feel 100 times better than the mamba, the thing just did not fit my hadn like a glove.  perhaps its my small hands but I hated it.


 

  
  I actually have the Razer Mamba and have small hands and I absolutely love the grip on that mouse. Sadly after 2 years it died on me...


----------



## Zulkr9

Too bad razer has the best optical sensor :/ their mice have crappy build. thats why I have 2 adders and 2 abyssus's  LOL.
  I also have a boomslang Ce 2007


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

I think I might give Steelseries a try for my next mouse simply because of how bad the software is for Razer. I know there are other gaming mice around but so many of them are extremely ugly. It's the biggest problem I have with just about anything I buy.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Can someone tell me if the Steelseries mice have a similar functionality as my Deathadder? Essentially, I can press on the mouse wheel button and scroll up or down to adjust the sensitivity on the fly. It is the only feature that keeps me using it. It's gotten so bad that it crashes a least once a night for me. At this point I'm starting to look at replacing it.


----------



## HK47

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Can someone tell me if the Steelseries mice have a similar functionality as my Deathadder? Essentially, I can press on the mouse wheel button and scroll up or down to adjust the sensitivity on the fly. It is the only feature that keeps me using it. It's gotten so bad that it crashes a least once a night for me. At this point I'm starting to look at replacing it.


 


  Yes, most mice have that feature. I'd say 99%.



 I'm running a Mionix Naos 5000 right now, wonderfull mouse.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





hk47 said:


> Yes, most mice have that feature. I'd say 99%.


 

  
  Good to know. Next paycheck seems to be going to a new mouse.


----------



## OJNeg

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Can someone tell me if the Steelseries mice have a similar functionality as my Deathadder? Essentially, I can press on the mouse wheel button and scroll up or down to adjust the sensitivity on the fly. It is the only feature that keeps me using it. It's gotten so bad that it crashes a least once a night for me. At this point I'm starting to look at replacing it.


 

  
  I'm not sure if the Steelseries mice have that specific functionality, but you can change your sensitivity on the fly. My Ikari has a slim button right below the wheel that switches from High to Low sensitivity. I almost never switch to Low sensitivity myself, but I suppose it could be useful if you need a bit more control at a certain instance.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

I never use that functionality on my Deathadder. I don't understand in what situation that would help, aside from when sniping. What I use scrolling changes for is tweaking for how I'm playing that night. Some nights a slightly higher sensitivity gives me an edge where other nights I'm just not on form and that higher sensitivity is too much. It also helps me when switching from game to game.


----------



## HK47

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Good to know. Next paycheck seems to be going to a new mouse.


 


  Oh, sorry i misread. (Hangover) 
 I missed the adjust sensitivity part. That i haven't seen on other mice. But you have the buttons with the preset stages. (That you most often can change yourself)


 Sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Ah. Crap. Because that is the one feature that will keep me using my DeathAdder. Too bad Razer can't make stable software.


----------



## Scars Unseen

I'm more of a trackball kind of guy, so I use a CST L-tracX.  3200 cpi(configurable) and the perfect size and shape to fit my hand without making me do the "eagle claw" like some other trackballs do.  It's solid as a rock, and where some companies void your warranty for taking a mouse apart, CST provides instructions.  Best trackball I've ever had.  Full specs here:  http://www.clearlysuperiortech.com/ltracx.html


----------



## OnyxVulpe

Logitech G9x that I got for $50 a few months ago.

Love it, I was using a Razer Deathadder that I had bought a good few years ago. The thing felt awesome in the first few months, not sure what happened to the texture. The Middle mouse button got wonky a few times but fixed it self. At the end when I decided to get a new mouse is because it would double click on its own when I would click, and when I would hold down the LMB it wouldn't hold which resulted in lots of files and folders going into the wrong place.

When the G9x was shipping it decided to fix it self, ended up shelving it anyway.


----------



## AVU

Apple Magic Trackpad.
   
  Love it.
   
  I was searching and searching for a new mouse, and someone mentioned the trackpad, and I was like What?  Why on earth would I want a stupid trackpad when I can have a mouse that does so much more so easily?  But then I tried one out, and was won over almost immediately.  I'm never going back.


----------



## Makiah S

So glad we got a mouse and keyboard fi :3, as I'm building my gaming rig today, and a mouse is going to be my first upgrade [in about a week ;3]
   
  So what do you guys think of the
   
  Evo EC1 and the G500?
   
  I've heard the G500 is pretty cheaply made, and I was recommened the EVO Ec1 instead, any one used either one?The G500 is 5600 and the EVO only 2600
   
  Still though, which do you guys think is a better buy? I don't like all the negativeity I'm hearing about the G500 on OCN... sadly though the internet likes the G500 [Big palces like Cnet...]
   
  Also New Egg reviews for G500 have been mixed,
   
  so xD which one you guys think would be better for FPS gaming. I don't really care about having extra buttons on the mouse, just accuarcy really...


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

I'd say Deathadder or Steelseries for mice. Logitech is great if you want a normal mouse but for gaming mice it's not worth it.


----------



## loremipsum

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> So glad we got a mouse and keyboard fi :3, as I'm building my gaming rig today, and a mouse is going to be my first upgrade [in about a week ;3]
> so xD which one you guys think would be better for FPS gaming. I don't really care about having extra buttons on the mouse, just accuarcy really...


 
  I'd go for the G400. Make sure you get one with a PID above LZ13333 though, lower ones have angle snapping.


----------



## Makiah S

I recently found the Corsair M60 mouse, same sensor specs as the g500 [adjustable w8 to] and better reviews and Scroll whell buttons for + - DPI, plus I got Corsair Ram... might as well start brand loyality now :3 [getting a Gigabyte Mouse pad to xD]


----------



## Donnyhifi

Got the Logicool(in Japan they are called Logicool instead of Logitech) Performance MX mouse at a discounted price, I have to admit I do like this mouse alot.
   
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice/devices/5845


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

The MX has a standard polling rate similar to any mouse, it's not meant to be a gamer's mouse. I've had a few, including the Anywhere MX. It was a good mouse for what it's meant to do, but at this point it sits in a box collecting dust.
   
  Don't forget to check polling rate as well as DPI. There's no reason to buy a gaming mouse that doesn't have a high DPI as well as a 1 kHz polling rate. If anything I'd say polling-rate is more important than DPI because high DPI doesn't necessarily equate to more accurate. It simply means how fast you can turn. That can be handy but if you don't have very steady hands then a really high DPI isn't going to help you. A very high polling rate, however, will. The reason being that one has to do with the speed of movement and the other is how fast it reacts.


----------



## Donnyhifi

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> The MX has a standard polling rate similar to any mouse, it's not meant to be a gamer's mouse. I've had a few, including the Anywhere MX. It was a good mouse for what it's meant to do, but at this point it sits in a box collecting dust.
> 
> Don't forget to check polling rate as well as DPI. There's no reason to buy a gaming mouse that doesn't have a high DPI as well as a 1 kHz polling rate. If anything I'd say polling-rate is more important than DPI because high DPI doesn't necessarily equate to more accurate. It simply means how fast you can turn. That can be handy but if you don't have very steady hands then a really high DPI isn't going to help you. A very high polling rate, however, will. The reason being that one has to do with the speed of movement and the other is how fast it reacts.


 

 Hi Doug, I don't think the Performance MX marketed as a gaming mouse from my understanding(based on a brief look on their website and personal experience as well)
   
  To be honest I prefer my G5 over this for gaming, I feel it has more precision and I don't have to worry about losing connectivity/lag since its wired.


----------



## OJNeg

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> So glad we got a mouse and keyboard fi :3, as I'm building my gaming rig today, and a mouse is going to be my first upgrade [in about a week ;3]
> 
> So what do you guys think of the
> 
> ...


 
   
  Used to own a Logitech mouse. Did not like. Felt heavy and hurt my wrist after long sessions. I humbly suggest the Steelseries Ikari. I play a lot of FPSs (Tribes, BF, etc) and it's a sweet peripheral that feels 100% responsive.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





donnyhifi said:


> Got the Logicool(in Japan they are called Logicool instead of Logitech) Performance MX mouse at a discounted price, I have to admit I do like this mouse alot.
> 
> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice/devices/5845


 
  wireless again I see <.< your taking a chance you might not want to :3


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Unless you get a gaming-specific wireless mouse they are all capped at around 125 Hz.
   
  The MX series are not gaming mice, they are meant to be functional mice that can track on just about any surface. Gaming mice tend not to be able to do that but have the added benefit of being hyper accurate and very reactive.
   
  If someone ever figured out how to make a mouse that was good at both things there would be no reason to ever buy anything else.


----------



## AVU

That steelseries looks awesome.  I may have to pick one up just for gaming


----------



## Makiah S

the Corsair M60 is my newest love obession, it's like $6 cheaper than the G500 and it's not a G500 so nobody gonna be hating, Bowei posted a user generated gaming mouse BEST list a few weeks ago, G500 was at the top but M60 was in the tier below [G500 was God, M60 was Great] 
   
  So just for the sake of being different and not buying Logitech [and saving $6] I'm going with the M60 just need a cheap $100 Cherry MX brown keyboard now >.>


----------



## maverickronin

How picky are most people here about their mice?  I can't stand most "normal" mice.  Some combination of the tracking, sensitivity, ergonomics, or mechanical feel fails me on most mice.
   
  I recently got a Death Adder to use at work because I continually get annoyed with any other mouse I could scrounge up around the office.  I'm really picky about the shape and comfort too.  Razer seems to be falling out of favor due to software issues but I couldn't find another brand with a shape that looked comfortable.  On my desktop at home I have an old Microsoft/Razer Habu that I bought because it's shape copied the old Intelimouse Explorer Which I thought was nearly perfectly shaped.  The Death Adder has pretty much the same shape as well.  Fortunately I haven't had any issues with the software on either of them but if it stops working I'm not sure what I'd use instead.
   
  The Steelseries ones looked pretty nice but none of them looked as comfortable to me.  The Sensei's feature set looked very nice but the shape kills it for me.  I can never get used to the "soap bar" form factor.


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Using the Logitech g9x here. I would recommend this mouse 1000 times to anyone as it is the best performing/comfortable mouse I have owned. It is also very durable.


----------



## Progapanda (Jul 14, 2018)

-


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

DeathAdder is the best mouse I've ever had. The build quality is good, it's comfortable... If not I'd say check out a Sensei.


----------



## Ra97oR

I would say my Sensei is better than my Deathadder in too many ways. The freedom on DPI and the ZERO lift distance is just too awesome to ignore. I also have plenty of program activated profiles to fit what ever I am doing, with the lights, you can see whatever you are on with the lights alone. Having it off on desktop and on different colour is somewhat useful.


----------



## sunninho

Quote: 





bravo4588 said:


> I've been using my Logitech Anywhere MX mouse for more than over a year. SO far working well


 
   
  Agreed.  Its versatility can't be beat.  You can truly use it on a glass table.  It's my ultimate travel mouse and the battery lasts forever.  Only minor gripe I have is it's a bit small for my hands.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





ra97or said:


> I would say my Sensei is better than my Deathadder in too many ways. The freedom on DPI and the ZERO lift distance is just too awesome to ignore. I also have plenty of program activated profiles to fit what ever I am doing, with the lights, you can see whatever you are on with the lights alone. Having it off on desktop and on different colour is somewhat useful.


 
   
  The one feature Razer appears to have that no one else does (and the only reason I won't check out a different mouse) is that I can push on the scroll wheel and scroll up and down to increase or decrease the sensitivity. To me, that's a killer feature as I often need to increase or decrease the sensitivity just slightly for how I'm playing any given night. Sometimes I can crank it up to full and hit every shot, other times I need to dial it back a bit to keep my accuracy up.
   
  It doesn't sound like a handy feature but it's so much better than profile switching.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





ra97or said:


> I would say my Sensei is better than my Deathadder in too many ways. The freedom on DPI and the ZERO lift distance is just too awesome to ignore. I also have plenty of program activated profiles to fit what ever I am doing, with the lights, you can see whatever you are on with the lights alone. Having it off on desktop and on different colour is somewhat useful.


 
   
  Except for the shape...
   
  I was really drooling over the feature list though.  Too bad.  Guess I'm stuck with Razer for a while.


----------



## mechgamer123

I'm using the MX revolution.
  I would upgrade to the performance mx since I've had this mouse for 5 years, but TBH the battery still lasts about 5 days with fairly heavy use before I have to put it on the charger. The rubber grip is also peeling off on the right side of the mouse, but oh well.
  And I'm mad that they took away the side wheel on the MX. That is truly one of my favorite features of the Revolution..
  Also, I'm using a razer sphex for my "mousepad." AKA skin. I can feel that it adds some better tracking to the mouse compared to my previous generic pad. I don't get why people spend a bunch of money on 10000 DPI mice, this mouse worked great back in the days of BF2142


----------



## writereviews

Why end might ask civil again spoil.


----------



## Keller1

Quote: 





writereviews said:


> Anybody know a mouse that is a right hander and doesn't have any bells and whistles? Just left click, right click and middle mouse button. God damn drivers that allow you to customise those bells and whistles are almost always Windows only so it's pointless for me.


 
  Lots of them are hardware-memorized, so you would only need to customize them once on a windows computer, then you wouldnt even need  to install drivers, atleast that's how my Spawn works.
 Used to have the MX revo - effin' amazing mouse, i just traded it for the CM Storm Spawn, which is also quite awesome.(Despite being tagged as a gamer mouse)


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





writereviews said:


> Anybody know a mouse that is a right hander and doesn't have any bells and whistles? Just left click, right click and middle mouse button. God damn drivers that allow you to customise those bells and whistles are almost always Windows only so it's pointless for me.


 
   
  What OS do you use? All those customize mice have pass-through on their buttons by default if no driver is present so any custom mouse driver will pick it up and run it as normal.
   
  If you're using Linux there are going to be half a dozen different apps to do just what you want. If you're running OS X, most manufacturers make OS X drivers now. Razer's for example, are better on the Mac than they are on the PC. I had a lot of trouble with my DeathAdder initially on Windows but it's always been rock-solid on OS X.


----------



## writereviews

Why end might ask civil again spoil.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





writereviews said:


> Yea I'm using GNU/Linux and I'm looking at getting an Intellimouse 3.0, that's if I can figure out how to customise the buttons.


 
   
  The DeathAdder is a pretty similar shape but with a better sensor and better switches if you're interested.


----------



## compuryan

I use a Razer Orochi. It's perfect for me because I'm on the go a lot with my laptop and it is comfortable but not too bulky, yet it has a powerful 2000 dpi sensor. It can be a wired mouse OR a wireless mouse, so I can take advantages of both interfaces (wireless = convenience, wired = speed, when gaming). Absolutely love it


----------



## writereviews

Why end might ask civil again spoil.


----------



## KmhK

Quote: 





writereviews said:


> I've got one, it's terrible.
> LEDs, glossy and improper form.


 
  The DeathAdder is one of the best if not THE best mouse out there when it comes to tracking, that's why so many people use it.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Get the black edition and it's matte with no lights. That's why I got it.


----------



## PhoenixClaw

Logitech G500 here. I love it. Great feel, build, functional.


----------



## algloom

G500 was a awesome mouse, used that at work alot.

 At home my first good mouse I had was the good old Logitech MX Revolution, which sadly, after serving me for 3 years, broke down but got repleaced with warranty. The replacement moue was MX Performance. Also a good mouse (I did not like it as much as MX Revolution which had 2 scrolls!) but now I'm using Logitech G700 which in my opinion, after using nearly 15 different mouse models in my life, is the best mouse on the market.

 It has a solid build
 changable battery (unlike mx revolution)
 better build quality than revolution and performance
 more buttons
 higher (changable dpi)
 more configuration options
 possibility to use as a wireless or wired mouse


----------



## Blisse

DeathAdder 3.5 is a great fit for me. Unfortunately, after 2 years, the mouse wheel just isn't accurate anymore. I got rid of the double click issue by just upping the Windows setting as well. Time to start mouse hunting.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





blisse said:


> DeathAdder 3.5 is a great fit for me. Unfortunately, after 2 years, the mouse wheel just isn't accurate anymore. I got rid of the double click issue by just upping the Windows setting as well. Time to start mouse hunting.


 
   
  If you like the DA3.5 just get the new Black Edition. More of the same except in the lights department.


----------



## Blisse

dougoftheabaci said:


> blisse said:
> 
> 
> > DeathAdder 3.5 is a great fit for me. Unfortunately, after 2 years, the mouse wheel just isn't accurate anymore. I got rid of the double click issue by just upping the Windows setting as well. Time to start mouse hunting.
> ...




I don't want to deal with the mouse wheel again in a couple of years. It looks like it's exactly the same, except it doesn't glow.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





blisse said:


> I don't want to deal with the mouse wheel again in a couple of years. It looks like it's exactly the same, except it doesn't glow.


 
   
  Well, it's a new mouse but I hate to break it to you but most mice will break eventually, especially if you use them a lot. That being said, if you don't like it then try the Steel Series mice. They seem to be the only gaming mice actually worth the money outside of the Razer mice. I know some people like Logitech but Logitech is a gaming company in the same way they're an audio company; they have some stuff for it, sure, but it's hardly their focus. Kind of why my first thought when I found out Logitech was buying Ultimate Ears was, "Well there goes that company."


----------



## jjacq

I have a Logitech M305 mouse I picked up yesterday and it's pretty good but the battery cover seems to be a bit loose and it's kinda driving me nuts. Most likely going to return it tomorrow but I'd like to know if you guys can give me good recommendations...? I was thinking of the magic mouse but I'm not sure if it's totally worth it for $50? Maybe someone can recommend me a good mouse for $50 used for mere internet browsing? I just need it to be wireless.

 Thanks


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

If you want a really interesting to use mouse that's actually pretty powerful in what it can do the mighty mouse is pretty good as a mouse. I have one and I don't use it but only because I hate having to switch from one mouse to another when I game. If, however, you just want a good, usable mouse for normal browsing and a Magic Mouse is within your budget then yeah, definitely give it a shot.
   
  Worst case scenario you can try it for a week and bring it back if you don't like it.
   
  Beyond that, any of the Logitech mice will do a good job. If you happen to have smaller hands or prefer smaller mice I'd recommend the Anywhere MX, which is a great wireless mouse. The battery lasts quite a long time and it tracks on anything. It's my go-to mouse as a portable mouse (assuming I don't just bring my Magic Mouse at that point).
   
  As far as I'm concerned, outside of gaming mouse and aside the Magic Mouse, the only mouse worth considering are Logitech mice. They are built pretty well, track on just about any surface and get good battery life.
   
  Oh, and if you get one of the USB ones with a universal receiver it can be used with one of their keyboards as well, so one receiver for multiple devices. But if you want bluetooth then just get the Magic Mouse.


----------



## loremipsum

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> I have a Logitech M305 mouse I picked up yesterday and it's pretty good but the battery cover seems to be a bit loose and it's kinda driving me nuts. Most likely going to return it tomorrow but I'd like to know if you guys can give me good recommendations...?


 
  Masking tape.


----------



## jjacq

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> If you want a really interesting to use mouse that's actually pretty powerful in what it can do the mighty mouse is pretty good as a mouse. I have one and I don't use it but only because I hate having to switch from one mouse to another when I game. If, however, you just want a good, usable mouse for normal browsing and a Magic Mouse is within your budget then yeah, definitely give it a shot.
> 
> Worst case scenario you can try it for a week and bring it back if you don't like it.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Alright I think I'll give the magic mouse a shot tomorrow after I return the logitech! Let me know if you're selling!


----------



## Keller1

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> If you want a really interesting to use mouse that's actually pretty powerful in what it can do the mighty mouse is pretty good as a mouse. I have one and I don't use it but only because I hate having to switch from one mouse to another when I game. If, however, you just want a good, usable mouse for normal browsing and a Magic Mouse is within your budget then yeah, definitely give it a shot.
> 
> Worst case scenario you can try it for a week and bring it back if you don't like it.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  The magic mouse is great, but personally I find browser gestures to be more effective ( In chromeplus )


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> Alright I think I'll give the magic mouse a shot tomorrow after I return the logitech! Let me know if you're selling!


 
   
   
  Never! I have other mice I'd sell before I sold that. My Anywhere MX, for example. However, I like having extra keyboards and mice around for when one decides to break, misbehave or I simply need to lend one to a friend.
   
  Quote: 





keller1 said:


> The magic mouse is great, but personally I find browser gestures to be more effective ( In chromeplus )


 
   
  I can understand that. I don't use mine now because I prefer my DeathAdder for so many other things (when doing design work the accuracy is fantastic). Because of that and the fact that I'm an obsessive keyboard-commander I don't need to gesture abilities of the Magic Mouse.
   
  However, for general users who aren't like me it's still a very cool mouse. Which is why Microsoft and Logitech are both coming out with their own versions of it.


----------



## DFXLuna

I'm also using a rat 7, when it breaks(If this thing ever breaks 0.0) I think I'll try out a corsair m60


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





dfxluna said:


> I'm also using a rat 7, when it breaks(If this thing ever breaks 0.0) I think I'll try out a corsair m60


 

 LOL! I say them same thing about my rat 7. However, it seems like a sturdy thing. I don't understand why people say it's easy to break.


----------



## cce121

I have a cheap second-hand MS original Sidewinder. Great for my lazy pinky..
 MS has big and generally sturdy mice,but durability is almost is not top-notch.
 Middle button starts to be unresponsive. Doesn't care as I am using it more for internet browsing. xp


----------



## No_One411

I use a Razer Deathadder since I have rather large hands. It fits perfectly in my hand, and works really well. I'm definitely someone that "palms" their mouse, instead of making a "claw grip."


----------



## Audio-Omega

I should had checked this thread before buying a Logitech M950.  It's heavy but the curvy shell makes it very comfortable to use.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





blisse said:


> I don't want to deal with the mouse wheel again in a couple of years. It looks like it's exactly the same, except it doesn't glow.


 
  If you're handy with a soldering iron you can replace it with an ALPS encoder that should last much longer.


----------



## EpicPie

I use a Razer Deathadder with my desktop, I still feel it's a tad small though it's comfortable. Any suggestions on a bigger mouse for palm grip?


----------



## Battou62

To the above poster : Logitech G400
   
  Anyone else been watching BST's development  of his new mouse?
   
http://85.17.208.103/post/2173191/new-gaming-mouse-development/


----------



## EnOYiN

battou62 said:


> To the above poster : Logitech G400




The G400 is hardly any bigger than the DA (if at all)


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Proving, yet again, why engineers shouldn't design things. Is it really so hard to make a well-designed mouse that also functions well?


----------



## Scott_Tarlow

I'm actually, even though they are the same size, going to suggest the razer mamba even if u only use it in wired mode ( although wireless mode is very very good and works flawlessly). The grips on the side of the mouse make it much easier to grip than the death adder... and it was a huge upgrade from the deathadder, although my deathadder only had 1800 dpi. I currently comfortably use 4000 dpi in mmo's


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

What about the Naga Epic? It has extendable palm rests.


----------



## Phos

Take a look at the Mionix Naos.


----------



## EpicPie

Quote: 





enoyin said:


> The G400 is hardly any bigger than the DA (if at all)


 
  I was about to say, haha.
  Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> What about the Naga Epic? It has extendable palm rests.


 
  It's to narrow for me, I've tried it.
  Quote: 





phos said:


> Take a look at the Mionix Naos.


 
  The Mionix Naos feels to cheap, I demo'ed it at work.


----------



## Kani

I use the Logitech G9x, It fits perfectly for claw grip. dpi adjust and side buttons are very helpful when playing battlefield 3.
  Only bad thing about is middle mouse buttons is harder to press not like the cheap mice i have used before. You get used to it with time, but i always feel the difference.


----------



## Phos

I dunno what to tell ya then, that's about as wide as mice get aside from offshoots like the CM Storm Spawn, which is not a claw mouse.  Are you sure it isn't just down to feeling lighter?


----------



## Kani

Quotehos 





> I dunno what to tell ya then, that's about as wide as mice get aside from offshoots like the CM Storm Spawn, which is not a claw mouse.  Are you sure it isn't just down to feeling lighter?


 
   

  Its distance from front to back is smaller than most other gaming mouse. Wideness kind of helps to keep all your fingers over it easily.
  If widness is a problem for you, you can always remove the case. But with the case its more comfortable even for claw grip.
  Its better than any smaller mice and any palm grip mice i have used. Its a little heavy than other small mouse but with a good mousepad its not a problem.
  I think you should use it to know how good it feel for a claw grip.


----------



## Phos

Sorry, I was talking to EpicPie.


----------



## Kani

Quote: 





phos said:


> Sorry, I was talking to EpicPie.


 
  No problem, maybe quote or name next time


----------



## cokeyed

I had the Razer Deathadder for about two years before i switched to the 2012 Mamba. I have to say that it being wireless makes it much cleaner and alot more convenient. You dont say right?!
  But there was no drop in polling times or anything so yeah Mamba FTW!


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





cokeyed said:


> I had the Razer Deathadder for about two years before i switched to the 2012 Mamba. I have to say that it being wireless makes it much cleaner and alot more convenient. You dont say right?!
> But there was no drop in polling times or anything so yeah Mamba FTW!


 
   
  What's the battery like?


----------



## Scott_Tarlow

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> What's the battery like?


 
  It really does last like 15 hours. I have never had it run out on me in a gaming session, but I charge it every night.


----------



## Blisse

I really like the feel of my DeathAdder, so the Mamba looks really good, especially if it lasts the 15 hours you said.

If the new Razer Ouroboros can fix the sensor problems of the RAT7/9, I'll be all over it if the reviews are good. Otherwise, it's the RAT7/9 or Mamba 2012.


----------



## Audio-Omega

Is Razer Mamba as fast and accurate as a wired Razer ?


----------



## Phos

I'm not a fan of Phillips Twin Eye sensors, so I personally wouldn't get it.  It currently has X and Y sensors, but they're offset in such a way that it often interprets lifting the mouse or the mouse sinking into the mouse pad as diagonal movement. If Phillips were to add -X and -Y sensors to cancel out these errors it might be the best sensor, but as is I wouldn't want a mouse that uses one of them.


----------



## Makiah S

I got Corsair M60 and I enjoy it very much, more buttons would be nice but for FPS the 2 that it has is pretty awesome! I've not used it with Vindictus yet although I have a feeling that the two Buttons will NOT be an issue there!


----------



## GeorgeStorm

Currently using a CMStorm Sentinel Advance.
Pretty pleased with it, although every now and again it will just shoot over to the other side of the screen for no reason :/

Got it 2nd hand for a decent price though, so can't really complain since it's a rare occurrence.


----------



## GeorgeStorm

Despite what I just said, am considering getting something new (since my brother likes the look of my current mouse)

Been looking at the G400, any other suggestions?


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





georgestorm said:


> Despite what I just said, am considering getting something new (since my brother likes the look of my current mouse)
> Been looking at the G400, any other suggestions?


 
   
   Steelseries or Razer are worth a look. Each offers different things depending on what kind of game you play, which features, etc.


----------



## GeorgeStorm

dougoftheabaci said:


> Steelseries or Razer are worth a look. Each offers different things depending on what kind of game you play, which features, etc.




Looking for a mouse with a decent sensor I guess, adjustable dpi would be nice (currently use 800).
1/2 side buttons (1 minimum), and the normal 2 main with a scrollwheel.

Don't need many fancy features or whatever


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





georgestorm said:


> Looking for a mouse with a decent sensor I guess, adjustable dpi would be nice (currently use 800).
> 1/2 side buttons (1 minimum), and the normal 2 main with a scrollwheel.
> Don't need many fancy features or whatever


 
   
   Well, any gaming mouse would do that. A favorite is the Death Adder because it has the added bonus of on-the-fly switching by pressing the scroll wheel and scrolling up/down. I wish someone else would implement that.


----------



## GeorgeStorm

dougoftheabaci said:


> Well, any gaming mouse would do that. A favorite is the Death Adder because it has the added bonus of on-the-fly switching by pressing the scroll wheel and scrolling up/down. I wish someone else would implement that.




Well, I'm sure lots will do it, I'm wondering which are the better choices.

Not bothered about on the fly dpi switching if that's what you're referring to, since I use 800 all the time.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





georgestorm said:


> Not bothered about on the fly dpi switching if that's what you're referring to, since I use 800 all the time.


 
   
   I didn't think much of it until I had it but it's nice for making small adjustments based on how you're playing that day. I know for myself that some days my reactions are very on target and I can have the sensitivity way up and hit every target where other days I need to tone it down just to hit center-mass.
   
  But beyond that, the Death Adder is still a good mouse. Sensei from Steelseries is supposed to be pretty solid as well.


----------



## GeorgeStorm

Thinking of getting a Zowie EC1 EVO since I can pick one up in good condition for £25...

And since the main game I play (TF2) requires some standard mouse movement, change the sensitivity and suddenly you have to completely readjust, I'd never be able to cope, just want the one dpi really. (aslong as it's low)


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Never heard of them, though it looks like a Steelseries clone. Give it a try and let us know how it turns out.


----------



## GeorgeStorm

Friend has heard mixed things, so I may not be keeping, but I like the looks and as a result hopefully feel of the mouse.

If it doesn't work out, tempted to go for a steelseries, or something like the zowie am


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





georgestorm said:


> Friend has heard mixed things, so I may not be keeping, but I like the looks and as a result hopefully feel of the mouse.
> If it doesn't work out, tempted to go for a steelseries, or something like the zowie am


 
   
  If you're having doubts just get a Steelseries mouse. They are very solid mice.


----------



## Phos

The Zowie's probably the better option, Steelseries's mice never panned out how you might expect.  The Sensei and Xai use the 9800, Kana uses a pixart sensor with a low malfunction speed.  
   
  G400, Death Adder, EC/AM, Savu (don't use the highest DPI step, it's fake), Maybe the CM Storm Spawn.  Those mice have the best sensors.  The funny thing is you can't pay attention to who makes it, mouse sensors are so funny that there's typically only one or two models from a given manufacturer that perform well.  Pretty much all of Zowie's mice use the same internals.


----------



## GeorgeStorm

phos said:


> The Zowie's probably the better option, Steelseries's mice never panned out how you might expect.  The Sensei and Xai use the 9800, Kana uses a pixart sensor with a low malfunction speed.
> 
> G400, Death Adder, EC/AM, Savu (don't use the highest DPI step, it's fake), Maybe the CM Storm Spawn.  Those mice have the best sensors.  The funny thing is you can't pay attention to who makes it, mouse sensors are so funny that there's typically only one or two models from a given manufacturer that perform well.  Pretty much all of Zowie's mice use the same internals.




I'd heard good things, friend said that they have negative acceleration which isn't good :/

But it should be arriving tomorrow, if it turns out it's not my cup of tea, I'll sell it on and look again 
And don't worry about the high dpi steps, I'll most likely use 800 again


----------



## GeorgeStorm

Arrived today, it's a lovely mouse, really nice in the hand, looks great and feels well made.

However, at 450dpi there does seem to be quite a lot of negative acceleration/skipping 

1150 seems fine though, so will probably still keep it since with some adjustments I can use that dpi, and everything else about the mouse is awesome


----------



## Phos

450 might work better at a lower polling rate, worth a shot.


----------



## GeorgeStorm

I think I've test both 450 and 1150 at all 3 polling rates 

Will do more testing over the next couple of days, try out a couple of friends mats at uni (going back on Sunday) and then make up my mind.

The guy has offered me a refund, so I may just take that, then try out some other mice.
Really like the look of the Zowie AM though...


----------



## PMAP

Microsoft Habu... The mouse that was probably sculpted for my hand or something. When my last mouse died a few months ago, I was desperate enough to search for used Habu on eBay. Finally I found one last one in a store nearby (some old forgotten stock with damaged box). I don't know what I'm gonna do when this one goes to silicon heaven. Not even Razer DeathAdder, which is its sibling, sits this good


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





georgestorm said:


> I think I've test both 450 and 1150 at all 3 polling rates
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Oh Zowei does MICE :O I like the keyboard  got from them... maybe I should go with a mouse of thier too <3 I still enjoy mu Corsair M60, just wish it had more then 3 "extra" buttons!


----------



## GeorgeStorm

mshenay said:


> Oh Zowei does MICE :O I like the keyboard  got from them... maybe I should go with a mouse of thier too <3 I still enjoy mu Corsair M60, just wish it had more then 3 "extra" buttons!




Not a bad choice of keyboard, bit big for me though.

Yeah the mouse is lovely, tempted to get an artisan pad to go with it, apparently awesome, but rather pricey :/


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





georgestorm said:


> Not a bad choice of keyboard, bit big for me though.
> Yeah the mouse is lovely, tempted to get an artisan pad to go with it, apparently awesome, but rather pricey :/


 
  BIG dude the Zowei I have is smaller than most are e.e and trust me you can tell it's small I still mis type, either on my keyboard or on nrml full size keyboards
   
  but yea they are both good devices, I can have up to 5 total extra buttons if I remove the "increase' "decrease" DPI commands on two of the buttons, I belive it is an 9 Button mouse but 4 of those are left right Middle and Scroll [thins I well like to keep as is] leaving you 4 actualy buttons you can click, and the DPI buttons r rather cumbersome to get to and the other 3 are ofc very conveintly placed <3


----------



## GeorgeStorm

mshenay said:


> BIG dude the Zowei I have is smaller than most are e.e and trust me you can tell it's small I still mis type, either on my keyboard or on nrml full size keyboards
> 
> but yea they are both good devices, I can have up to 5 total extra buttons if I remove the "increase' "decrease" DPI commands on two of the buttons, I belive it is an 9 Button mouse but 4 of those are left right Middle and Scroll [thins I well like to keep as is] leaving you 4 actualy buttons you can click, and the DPI buttons r rather cumbersome to get to and the other 3 are ofc very conveintly placed <3




Haha, I currently use a KBC Poker (have a google, then you'll know what I mean  )

Mouse wise I only need one side button really, only use more every now and again, not needed, the steelseries kana looks pretty...


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





georgestorm said:


> Haha, I currently use a KBC Poker (have a google, then you'll know what I mean
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  yes it's smaller than my Zowie! Looks nice enough though
   
  the M60 only has 3 really useful buttons and they are nice and useful xD


----------



## Kirosia

Logitech G700 and G19 on sale at Amazon, gold box
   
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=xs_gb_A3T0K7H03TRXH2?ie=UTF8&docId=1000838171&pf_rd_p=441937901&pf_rd_s=right-1&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=20&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1H0WJKMWXPSFY8VS6YKG


----------



## Arainach

I've got 3 G500s myself now (Home Desktop, Work Desktop, "Spare" (either laptop or for my fiancee's desktop, haven't decided which yet). Truly wonderful. Microsoft Mice work well enough for most desktop use for me, but for gaming and pure comfort it's logitech all the way. I went through a long line of them (MX510 - great for its time, a bit low-DPI eventually, MX1000 - stunning except for the awful battery life, MX518 - a truly wonderful mouse that I was sad to see go when I replaced it with the G500) and they've never let me down. Great customer service too.


----------



## ZGojira

Original Razer Naga for my desktop and Orochi on Mackbook Air 11"


----------



## Kirosia

I'm using a Logitech M305, which has a terrible scroll wheel. Any bit of dust, and it's near unusable. Other than that, good beater. Ordered the G700 for $55, don't need it, but better safe than sorry in case the m305 self-destructs.


----------



## nsk1

Microsoft IE 3.0, oldschool bitches! 7 years and still going strong. Had a couple of Logitechs and those are fine, but too small for me. Nothing matches my hand better, even my ****.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





nsk1 said:


> Microsoft IE 3.0, oldschool bitches! 7 years and still going strong. Had a couple of Logitechs and those are fine, but too small for me. Nothing matches my hand better, even my ****.


 
  xD lawl nice
   
  Still enjoying the Corsai m60


----------



## customcoco

hi everyone,
   
  Sorry if this particular question has already been asked :
   
  I want to buy a new mouse as my wonderfully mediocre magic mouse is driving me mad. Long story made short, I selected three potential mice that may fit the bill (all from logitech): the g500, g700, and the performance mx.
   
  I can buy the g700 and the performance xm at 70 euros (which is my price limit) while the g500 is around 45euros.
   
  The performance's shape does seem a little bit too much "ergonomic" for me and I've read a lot of bad reviews about it. So it's basically between the g700 and 500.
   
  In your opinion, is the performance gap between the two worth 25 euros?


----------



## Blisse

As a Razer fan, holy ****, DeathAdder 2013. New mouse time!! >


----------



## kubo

enjoying my steelseries sensei, i think its the perfect mouse i've used so far. I've used the logitech g9x before that and tried the deathadder, but damn the sensei is just perfect to me -- primarily the side button positioning and size of the mouse overall. the two macro buttons on the right side aren't that hard to push compared to some razer mouses imo.


----------



## clackers

I have the deathadder right now as well and I'm starting to realize that I'm more of a claw/border-line fingertip grip player. The steelseries sensei seems like the logical step to take at this point. Also, razer synapse is incredibly inconvenient. They couldn't have bothered to allow profiles to be saved on the mouse?


----------



## Vicks7

Check this out  - very happy with mine
   
  http://www.gadgetshunter.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=78


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

vicks7 said:


> Check this out  - very happy with mine
> 
> http://www.gadgetshunter.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=78




Looks like the old hockey-puck mice Apple used to sell. Those things were horrible. If you want a portable mouse, Logitech Anywhere MX is king.


----------



## Vicks7

It is nothing at all like the Apple hockey puck mouse.


----------



## Blisse

^ that mouse looks horrible and gimmicky :/ like those troll mice they sell that's shaped like animals. 




clackers said:


> I have the deathadder right now as well and I'm starting to realize that I'm more of a claw/border-line fingertip grip player. The steelseries sensei seems like the logical step to take at this point. Also, razer synapse is incredibly inconvenient. They couldn't have bothered to allow profiles to be saved on the mouse?




The amount of misinformation about Synapse 2.0 is ridiculously astounding. It amazes me that people's reading comprehension is so low that they can't interpret clear information properly, so they trust what randoms on the Reddit spread.

Synapse 2.0 is made so they don't have to increase the size of the memory on the mouse for all your 5-6 profiles. High speed memory is really expensive, so imagine the costs added onto already a large investment.

If you install Synapse 2.0, it's like having the Razer mouse drivers installed, except when instead of storing all the 6 profile settings on your mouse with expensive memory and swapping which profile the mouse uses, you link it up to the Internet and if you want to switch profiles, it'll download the profile from the Cloud and swap out the old profile into your mouse. 

Sure, it can be used as a cheap way to monitor some of their user's preferences, if you let them track your information, but that's in no way the only reason. 

i.e. People are foolish and need to learn to interpret information properly.

I'm pretty sure if it's just my upbringing, but I try to question and understand what I'm reading. I'm taking Engineering courses and they drilled into us that high speed memory is expensive. Think about how much cache is on your CPU, and how important cache is to your system.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

blisse said:


> Sure, it can be used as a cheap way to monitor some of their user's preferences, if you let them track your information, but that's in no way the only reason




I can never understand why people are so adamantly against this. I mean, who cares if a company collects anonymous usage data?

As someone who works on the internet for a living, I'm going to let everyone in on a little secret: Just about every site you have ever visited collects information about you. In fact, the percentage of sites that don't collect your data is so low that it another context it would be within the statistical margin for error.

However, a couple things to know:


 The only way someone could identify you out of the dataset would be to already have excessively large amounts of information about you. They would have to match you against various anonymous entries to narrow down until they found you. That's a dataset of millions to sort through.
 The only things they'd ever learn are things you've pretty much released out into the public anyway. This idea people have that somewhere Google has all this information detailing your whole life... or anyone else for that matter, is a falsehood. They can infer things, and it can be accurate, but they don't actually know almost anything.
 Ego buster: No one cares about you. I can't stress this enough. Chances are, you aren't special. Why would someone bother to take the time, break a few laws, all so they can invade your privacy and find out about what DPI you set your mouse to? Seriously?

I hope that this nonsense is just a phase and that people eventually figure out how technology actually works. Otherwise I'm in for a very stressful career. AND FOR GOD'S SAKE, UPDATE YOUR DAMNED BROWSERS.


----------



## Headzone

Using my plain Logitech G3 that I bought 4-5 years ago. It's taken some serious abuse but still going strong.


----------



## heyalbert

A solid mouse for $40.


----------



## micrors4

Is that the new death adder?  I have last years model and it feels amazing, people always think I'm weird using a full sized wired mouse when they see me out with it, but there is just no way in hell I could ever go back to one of those cheap little travel mice.


----------



## Taowolf51

The new Razer Taipai looks awesome. Might have to try it, it seems like it may have the same form factor as the old Copperhead.


----------



## clackers

Quote: 





blisse said:


> ^ that mouse looks horrible and gimmicky :/ like those troll mice they sell that's shaped like animals.
> The amount of misinformation about Synapse 2.0 is ridiculously astounding. It amazes me that people's reading comprehension is so low that they can't interpret clear information properly, so they trust what randoms on the Reddit spread.
> Synapse 2.0 is made so they don't have to increase the size of the memory on the mouse for all your 5-6 profiles. High speed memory is really expensive, so imagine the costs added onto already a large investment.
> If you install Synapse 2.0, it's like having the Razer mouse drivers installed, except when instead of storing all the 6 profile settings on your mouse with expensive memory and swapping which profile the mouse uses, you link it up to the Internet and if you want to switch profiles, it'll download the profile from the Cloud and swap out the old profile into your mouse.
> ...


 
   
  Lol I found Synapse incredibly inconvenient even before seeing the post on Reddit about it. It doesn't matter to me if they take my user profile or anything because I understand that this is a way of monitoring user preferences. People bitch and whine about "the man" snooping in their stuff and yet, they keep going on Facebook.
  I find Synapse to be inconvenient because there is a distinct lag between booting the computer and the time that it takes for Synapse to start up, which means that there's a period of about 15 seconds where the mouse's sensitivity is all wonky. Also, there's no way of switching between profiles without "alt+tab"ing out of whatever game that you're playing and actively switching the profile on the Synapse program's page. Also, may I add at this point that Synapse takes forever to load? And no, it's not a problem with my computer being ****ty because I have Synapse downloaded and loaded from my SSD. It's just an inefficient program. 
  The fact that you have to be connected to the internet in order to switch profiles is ridiculous. Because Synapse is--like you said--a cloud-based program, if you don't have internet there's no way of getting your profile adjusted to what you want. 
  Personally, I would MUCH rather prefer them to just let us download drivers from either their website or from a CD because keeping information for peripherals on the cloud is stupid and inconvenient.
   
  It's funny because for being someone that tries to "understand what you're reading" you make a lot of assumptions. So before dissing someone, you should probably ask, "What do you mean by that?"


----------



## Blisse

clackers said:


> Lol I found Synapse incredibly inconvenient even before seeing the post on Reddit about it. It doesn't matter to me if they take my user profile or anything because I understand that this is a way of monitoring user preferences. People bitch and whine about "the man" snooping in their stuff and yet, they keep going on Facebook.
> I find Synapse to be inconvenient because there is a distinct lag between booting the computer and the time that it takes for Synapse to start up, which means that there's a period of about 15 seconds where the mouse's sensitivity is all wonky. Also, there's no way of switching between profiles without "alt+tab"ing out of whatever game that you're playing and actively switching the profile on the Synapse program's page. Also, may I add at this point that Synapse takes forever to load? And no, it's not a problem with my computer being ****ty because I have Synapse downloaded and loaded from my SSD. It's just an inefficient program.
> The fact that you have to be connected to the internet in order to switch profiles is ridiculous. Because Synapse is--like you said--a cloud-based program, if you don't have internet there's no way of getting your profile adjusted to what you want.
> Personally, I would MUCH rather prefer them to just let us download drivers from either their website or from a CD because keeping information for peripherals on the cloud is stupid and inconvenient.
> ...




Considering those are all limitations of the old Synapse drivers, the only valid concern is the slow driver start-up, which is a pretty big deal. I'm pretty sure you can use Synapse in off-line mode, so just use that? You can save local settings in offline mode.

If you were only talking generally about Synapse, then sorry for the misunderstanding, but none of the majority of concerns about Synapse 2.0 are valid, or any more relevant than what were already limitations on the original Synapse.


----------



## Taowolf51

I've owned all Razer mice since the Copperhead, and I've never once used Razer Synapse.


----------



## clackers

Quote: 





blisse said:


> Considering those are all limitations of the old Synapse drivers, the only valid concern is the slow driver start-up, which is a pretty big deal. I'm pretty sure you can use Synapse in off-line mode, so just use that? You can save local settings in offline mode.
> If you were only talking generally about Synapse, then sorry for the misunderstanding, but none of the majority of concerns about Synapse 2.0 are valid, or any more relevant than what were already limitations on the original Synapse.


 
  Yeah, I just have general disdain for Synapse. I don't think any of the concerns that people had on Reddit were valid (spyware? What?). I personally wouldn't mind paying the extra $30 for a Steelseries Sensei or even less for the Sensei Raw because, like I said earlier, I've begun changing up my hand-style. Also, I would be able to switch profiles on the fly which is pretty freaking cool. 
   
  Sorry for any animosity in my earlier post.


----------



## fishbone

Oh I didn't know that there is a mouse-fi thread here. 
  As a good (let's say semi-pro...) player on Quake (ye this game still exists), I would like to share my knowledge on mice.
  I saw that Steelseries and Razer are kicking in this thread, but they produce in last 3 or 4 years crap mice. I'm very picky so I may find something annoying while you don't even care/know about it. But as Head-fier, I think it's mendatory .
   
  For example, the Steelseries Sensei uses the same sensor as the Xai (Avago 9500) which is a laser sensor, it is really good but this sensor doesn't like dust, it becomes jittery at times and the sensitivity is altered (clean your lens, you will see). It also have negative and positive acceleration which means that for quick movements, your mouse doesn't register a constant traveled distance as doing slow movements. On this point, I know that you probably don't even care . But the dust thing with the XAI is a no go for me.
  That's why I'm selling mine (35€). If someone want it, send a private message ! ^^
  You have an extended view of major mice you can find on the market with their flaws (or not) : http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=2024663
   
  And for the Synapse thing, you can't even use the mouse If you don't have the internet for the first time when installing it...


----------



## Blisse

fishbone said:


> Oh I didn't know that there is a mouse-fi thread here.
> As a good (let's say semi-pro...) player on Quake (ye this game still exists), I would like to share my knowledge on mice.
> I saw that Steelseries and Razer are kicking in this thread, but they produce in last 3 or 4 years crap mice. I'm very picky so I may find something annoying while you don't even care/know about it. But as Head-fier, I think it's mendatory .
> 
> ...




That's a lie, btw. Truth!

If you mean about not being able to use the extra buttons, how can you expect to setup 12 extra buttons if you don't have the firmware? I'm not sure if they package the disk though, so there's that concern.

I don't like SteelSeries because of all the prediction they put on a bunch of their mice, and the really sensitive sensor. I guess since I don't play FPS games much anymore it doesn't matter to me, but I'm fine with my DeathAdder.



clackers said:


> blisse said:
> 
> 
> > Considering those are all limitations of the old Synapse drivers, the only valid concern is the slow driver start-up, which is a pretty big deal. I'm pretty sure you can use Synapse in off-line mode, so just use that? You can save local settings in offline mode.
> ...




I don't like it, but I don't dislike it. Like, it doesn't affect me in anyway, except giving my Razer stuff a bit more functionality. Until they make mice as big as the DeathAdder for my huge hands, I'll have to pass on most other mice. Palming feels a bit more natural imo. I don't use the profile things, and I'm not sure what that button on the bottom of the DeathAdder does, so I probably don't have as much experience as a Naga user, but people made such a huge deal out of nothing. Reddit is a bad place XD

And it's fine. I was the one who was wrong, so it's not like you did anything wrong.


----------



## fishbone

When I read that : http://www.overclock.net/t/1319323/razer-synapse-2-0-software-mouse-unusable-if-you-dont-have-an-internet-connection-or-their-servers-are-down
  I can tell that it's just crap .
   
  Ah that's the same source in fact, ahah .
  Well I didn't read all the entire post of Razer but did they modify their policy after that post ?
  And who needs to buy a Naga...
  I have 3 buttons on my mouse and I'm kicking asses 
   
  And for Steelseries, what is the reference to the "prediction" you stated ? You mean angle snapping ? Because the only mouse that have prediction is the Kinzu. Xai/Sensei have a buit-in technology to turn on/off the prediction. Kana is prediction free. The Ikari uses the same sensor as the Logitech MX518 which has prediction


----------



## Blisse

Yeah, you can use the mouse. You can't customize the mouse unless you use the software. 

Regular mice like the DeathAdder work fine. The Naga needs special customization which can be accessed by registering an account. 

*Or by downloading the effing legacy Synapse 1.0 software from Razer's site. *

The amount of crying, misinformation, and pitchforking is pathetic in that thread. I understand that you're angry as a customer, and that the reason Razer hurriedly released all of the legacy drivers is because of the amount of crying, but grow up, gosh. There's much better ways of dealing with it than complaining over the Internet. This is why I don't head over to most forums, like Reddit. The maturity level is so ridiculously low for the vast majority of users.

Their policy wasn't modified, else I would have been asked to accept a new one at some time. I think, anyways.


Mouse prediction, mouse acceleration, all sorts of other junk. I don't know where it says the Ikari uses the MX518 laser. Googling XY2 and MX518 returns nothing. Also, there's an option to turn off prediction? Why is it even on? :/


----------



## fishbone

Quote: 





blisse said:


> Yeah, you can use the mouse. You can't customize the mouse unless you use the software.
> Regular mice like the DeathAdder work fine. The Naga needs special customization which can be accessed by registering an account.
> *Or by downloading the effing legacy Synapse 1.0 software from Razer's site. *
> The amount of crying, misinformation, and pitchforking is pathetic in that thread. I understand that you're angry as a customer, and that the reason Razer hurriedly released all of the legacy drivers is because of the amount of crying, but grow up, gosh. There's much better ways of dealing with it than complaining over the Internet. This is why I don't head over to most forums, like Reddit. The maturity level is so ridiculously low for the vast majority of users.
> ...


 
   
  Ok my bad then, I should have read the whole thing.
   
  For the Ikari (I mean the optical version, not the laser one) and the MX518, they don't use exactly the same optical sensor in fact, the Ikari is based on the ADNS-3060 and the MX518 ADNS-3080 made by Avago but which are in practical basically the same.
  For the prediction, you need to blame Avago and not the manufacturer who build the mouse. The lastest Avago optical sensor ADNS-3090 is prediction free now. Razer has special version of those sensor as you can see in the following link. The 3G/3.5G sensor from Razer, is surely the best sensor ever. No prediction (need a firmware update), no accel and good maximum functionnal speed (up to 4m/s). The ADNS-3090 is similar to this one.
  http://www.esreality.com/wiki/Hardware:Mice_Sensors
   
  It is on maybe because it's the default option out of the box I guess, chosen by the manufacturer for making you install their drivers .
  For gamers, prediction can be bad but for the designers prediction is a gift to draw straight line with a mice.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





blisse said:


> ^ that mouse looks horrible and gimmicky :/ like those troll mice they sell that's shaped like animals.
> The amount of misinformation about Synapse 2.0 is ridiculously astounding. It amazes me that people's reading comprehension is so low that they can't interpret clear information properly, so they trust what randoms on the Reddit spread.
> Synapse 2.0 is made so they don't have to increase the size of the memory on the mouse for all your 5-6 profiles. High speed memory is really expensive, so imagine the costs added onto already a large investment.
> If you install Synapse 2.0, it's like having the Razer mouse drivers installed, except when instead of storing all the 6 profile settings on your mouse with expensive memory and swapping which profile the mouse uses, you link it up to the Internet and if you want to switch profiles, it'll download the profile from the Cloud and swap out the old profile into your mouse.
> ...


 
   
  The memory in these mice is typically measured in kilobytes and the margins on these mice are insane anyway.  It's also another program you need to keep running.  With built in memory I just remove the mouse's driver from start up and just open it when I need to change something and never notice the difference.  
   
  Oh, and apparently synapse 2.0 mice still have non volatile memory in them anyway.


----------



## Blisse

phos said:


> The memory in these mice is typically measured in kilobytes and the margins on these mice are insane anyway.  It's also another program you need to keep running.  With built in memory I just remove the mouse's driver from start up and just open it when I need to change something and never notice the difference.
> 
> Oh, and apparently synapse 2.0 mice still have non volatile memory in them anyway.




I'm not sure you understand how memory works. Do you even understand what non-volatile means? Do you even understand anything that goes on in the hardware level with mice, and the associated costs of these systems? Is your knowledge of memory only concerned at the flash and SDRAM/DDRAM level, and you're trying to apply it to embedded systems? 


Not sure how much parallel memory costs and at what speeds mice need them running at. I'll make an educated guess. If you have some inside information I'm not aware of, then by all means enlighten me.

64KB 250ns parallel EEPROM memory costs about $8 according to one website. I'll assume $5 in bulk.
Not sure what's the difference between 150ns and 250ns (150ns is cheaper but different model). I'll assume worst case just to prove this point.

Since mice need to be able to poll at 1000Hz, the memory needs to run at significantly faster than that, but I'll take 1000Hz, which translates into roughly 1ms access times, so the speed's covered with the 250ns. At least, I hope it is. I don't know, I don't design mice.

Then we need to figure out how much memory profiles cost. But I'm also not sure if they're using cheaper flash memory for other access. Apparently the Nova mice? uses some 512KB of flash memory and EEPROM. Hard to say. Again, assume worst case and only EEPROM.

Say 1 profile stored costs about 64KB in space. Adding 3 profiles would be 3x64KB, which is 256KB since I've never see a 192KB anything ever. So we'll say that's $10 more or so.

But that's assuming Naga profiles are the same size as regular mice profiles, like a DeathAdder. I mean, how many rebinds do DeathAdders have versus the Nagas. 

Maybe each profile costs about 128KB. Now you're looking at $40 more to store 3 profiles. Possibly. 

Use Synapse 2.0? You stall the mice for a little bit to add an unlimited number of profile options, and you can save customers money for a slight inconvenience. At least, that's where I'm hoping they're going for this.

You don't even consider the R&D costs for developer of the new system either.


I'm not here to argue ethics of Synapse 2.0 and user information tracking. This is an example of how costs might build up when you're designing a mouse and adding memory for more profile space, versus using one memory and swapping it. I'm also aware that EEPROM is not the best solution for this, so there should be some flash mixed in, but that would raise the complexity of this example too much.


----------



## AzureBeat

So, other than Razer and Steelseries, what companies make gaming mice? And has anyone else done a top/bottom side button arrangement like the (discontinued) Sidewinder X8?

 I have a Razer Lachesis and Steelseries mat and keyboard. No problems with either, but I love looking.


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





azurebeat said:


> So, other than Razer and Steelseries, what companies make gaming mice? And has anyone else done a top/bottom side button arrangement like the (discontinued) Sidewinder X8?
> 
> I have a Razer Lachesis and Steelseries mat and keyboard. No problems with either, but I love looking.


 

 Logitech??


----------



## AzureBeat

Oh, yeah, forgot about them.
   
  So, those, also Corsair has a couple that I don't know much about, ThermalTake makes one or two. Cyborg has the Rats.
  I seem to prefer bigger mice, I moved from a diamondback to my current mouse, and really like it. Maybe I'll try an ergonomic mouse sometime . . . maybe.


----------



## Rydock

I'm running a Madcatz R.A.T. 5 right now and I freaking love this thing. Great button layout and features. Nice feeling and weights (with all adjustable weights installed). I have relatively small hands, and this fits perfectly for me. I'm running the DPI at 2400, and that seems more than enough for what I need. Also love the looks of this thing.


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





azurebeat said:


> Oh, yeah, forgot about them.
> 
> So, those, also Corsair has a couple that I don't know much about, ThermalTake makes one or two. Cyborg has the Rats.
> I seem to prefer bigger mice, I moved from a diamondback to my current mouse, and really like it. Maybe I'll try an ergonomic mouse sometime . . . maybe.


 

 I think most gaming mice are more ergonomic than the usual ones.


----------



## AzureBeat

Well, I never liked ergo mice when I felt them. Might be caused by unfamiliarity with the style, but I do like the look of the Razer Imperiator, I think it is. The ergonomic one that doesn't have massive curving. Also the new one with the modular sides. My brother has a R.A.T. 5, I don't like it.
   
  I actually run a lower DPI, high polling rate, on a big hard mouse mat.


----------



## cokeyed

Im sorry I havent been on here in a while.... but the battery does alright. About 15+ hours of constant gaming. I have reverted to just leaving the cable in because im too lazy to put it on the stand to charge it


----------



## MistrDave

Nice thread. I'd like to weigh in with my opinion. 
   
  I have found that any decent laser mouse works as an effective gaming tool. I've known players to use old school Microsoft Intelli-point mice and absolutely raked the competition. Whatever your peripheral is, if you use it long enough, you will be a master of it if it meets your basic comfort requirements. "Gaming" mice do not equate to better performance. 
   
  I've used a variety of gaming mice from both Logitech and Razer. I could see where some might prefer one over the other, but both were great at being mice. Personally, I was a DeathAdder fan due to the ambidextrous design. I use a claw grip on my mouse. I want something that is equal in size at all points, otherwise a claw grip is distributed unevenly. So, that is my requirement. 
   
  Aside from that, I decided I wanted on the fly DPI switching. If I'm doing some photoshop work, being able to macro a key to knock my DPI down to 400 for precision manipulation was essential. However, gaming mice often feature teflon feet and mouse pads that provide exception glide. I disliked this feature. Having a mouse pad that "sticks" a little bit as a move the mouse across it reduces micro movement errors. I found the same to be true for gaming, where a little bit of friction allowed me to have greater feel of the "road" and end point for my pointer, whereas an ultra slick surface provided no tactile feedback, as though I was on ice.
   
  My point is this; no matter what the long list of beneficial bullet points is for a product of this nature, it doesn't mean you are supposed to adhere to them, or that they will make you superior. Knowing what works best for you does, not what someone else tells you should.
   
  To that extent, I've found the Roccat Sensei [Raw] rubberdized mouse to be perfect for my needs. Ambidextrous design of ample weight and size, on the fly DPI switching, two buttons on both the right and left side of the mouse provide back and forward arrows for browsers and additional macros, as well as additional commands in games directly from the mouse. A five button mouse is my minimum requirement, and this one has eight in an unobtrusive, equidistant design.
   
  The best mouse is one which helps your workflow and disappears into your usage as an extension of your limb, not something you are trying to wield.


----------



## jkxs

I use the Logitech G9x and Performance Mouse MX


----------



## mugen3

+1 MistrDave, good post. I used to be a competitive gamer and comfort is the most important thing about a mouse. Having a quality sensor with 1:1 tracking is a must too. Right now I'm using a Razer Abyssus.


----------



## HopsAllMighty

SS Sensei here, Been using it for quite some time now and enjoying it. However, if I were to go professional at Battlefield, they might want me to use Armageddon. I've always found that brand quirky.


----------



## CapitaFK

Nothing beats Logitech mice. Nothing. You can throw them under a bus and they'll still work like new.


----------



## AzureBeat

Personally, I really want to try the Corsair M60/65.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

capitafk said:


> Nothing beats Logitech mice. Nothing. You can throw them under a bus and they'll still work like new.




Depends on what you’re after. If you want durability and the ability to track on any surface, yeah Logitech is pretty solid. Except for the shoddy Mac driver support. And if you want the best gaming mice. I used Logitech for years but go tired having to wait months after a major OS release for them to get their software working. It shouldn’t be that difficult and it shouldn’t take that long. I’m not a fan for being a second-class citizen when I pay top-dollar for my mice.

So I left for Razer and, oddly, they treat me much better. I get equal time so my mice work as well in OS X as they do in Windows, with the exact same feature-set.

And man how smooth that DeathAdder tracks… I was getting headshot after headshot last night in Far Cry 3.


----------



## Taowolf51

Quote: 





capitafk said:


> Nothing beats Logitech mice. Nothing. You can throw them under a bus and they'll still work like new.


 
   
  My G5 was nothing but problems for me, and I hardly used it.


----------



## CapitaFK

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Depends on what you’re after. If you want durability and the ability to track on any surface, yeah Logitech is pretty solid. Except for the shoddy Mac driver support. And if you want the best gaming mice. I used Logitech for years but go tired having to wait months after a major OS release for them to get their software working. It shouldn’t be that difficult and it shouldn’t take that long. I’m not a fan for being a second-class citizen when I pay top-dollar for my mice.
> 
> So I left for Razer and, oddly, they treat me much better. I get equal time so my mice work as well in OS X as they do in Windows, with the exact same feature-set.
> 
> And man how smooth that DeathAdder tracks… I was getting headshot after headshot last night in Far Cry 3.


 
  I did love my DeathAdder, but that is one mouse out of their entire lineup. Plus it's not like it's hard to get headshot after headshot in a single player game. I could do that with a $15 Dynex mouse (no offense). I've used pretty much their whole host of products (mostly bought, some received from tournaments as freebies), but they seriously have the worst QC in the industry. For every bad Logitech product, there are a bunch of bad Razer ones.
   
  It's not even like I hate Razer. I try to like them, especially since they're the only company who actively tries to cater to left-handed people, of which I am naturally (left-handed DeathAdder was my second love after the MX310, and now they're making a left-handed Naga). I've had to learn to use right-handed mice, and now I'm pretty ambidextrous, but it still feels more natural to use a mouse on my left hand.
   
  But yes, I do try to like them. Otherwise, I wouldn't have spent over a grand on their products in the past 2 years. They have some great designs, especially with stuff like the Naga. But it's simply not worth having to replace their products ever few months despite treating it like a baby, while I could throw my Logitech at a wall and it'll still work perfectly.
   
  And I agree about Logitech's drivers sucking (especially with their headsets), but Razer's moving in that direction. Cloud-based drivers are a horrible idea.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

capitafk said:


> I did love my DeathAdder, but that is one mouse out of their entire lineup. Plus it's not like it's hard to get headshot after headshot in a single player game. I could do that with a $15 Dynex mouse (no offense). I've used pretty much their whole host of products (mostly bought, some received from tournaments as freebies), but they seriously have the worst QC in the industry. For every bad Logitech product, there are a bunch of bad Razer ones.
> 
> It's not even like I hate Razer. I try to like them, especially since they're the only company who actively tries to cater to left-handed people, of which I am naturally (left-handed DeathAdder was my second love after the MX310, and now they're making a left-handed Naga). I've had to learn to use right-handed mice, and now I'm pretty ambidextrous, but it still feels more natural to use a mouse on my left hand.
> 
> ...




Who said anything about a single-player game? FC3 has co-op and multiplayer. And getting a head-shot while doing a run-and-gun in any multiplayer-scenario is rarely easy. 

I've had my DeathAdder Black for... 2 years? And another at work that's just over a year old so I don't know what you're doing to your mice. I don't "baby" mine but I don't throw them agains a wall, either. And while my home-mouse only gets used an average of 3-4 hours a day my work mouse is 8 solid hours every week day so... yeah. I haven't had a problem with durability, yet.

I don't see a problem with their cloud sync. I do that with a number of apps already through Dropbox and the result is the same. The stuff is still local so if you don't have a net connection it works with what's local. Otherwise it checks for updates to your local files, downloads them, then uses them. It's just like the original system except now you can easily move your presets from one system to another. Given I have three separate operating systems that I use every day I'm rather a fan and have never had a problem with it.


----------



## Impulsum

Quote: 





jkxs said:


> I use the Logitech G9x and Performance Mouse MX


 
  +1 for the G9x, but not the Performance MX. I found the Performance MX mouse to be way too heavy to be convenient, and while it is very nicely shaped, my smaller hand felt cramped even after 15 minutes due to its size.
   
  I personally use the G9x for FPS and swap over to the Naga Epic for MMOs and Action RPGs.


----------



## CapitaFK

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Who said anything about a single-player game? FC3 has co-op and multiplayer. And getting a head-shot while doing a run-and-gun in any multiplayer-scenario is rarely easy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  FC3's gunplay is extremely easy. It's part of a generation of dumbed-down FPS with recoil tailored for gamepads (read: easier). Not exactly difficult when you're used to old school FPS, like CounterStrike, with actual recoil, rather than being able to spray a watermelon-sized target accurately at well over 20 meters.
   
  That said, I've said multiple times I haven't had a problem with the DeathAdder. If you'd read past "omg he hates the brand I'm a total fanboy for," you'll see I've used almost their entire line of peripherals.
   
  As far as Cloud drivers go, I much prefer internally-stored configs that are saved into the mouse itself. It's faster and far more reliable.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

capitafk said:


> FC3's gunplay is extremely easy. It's part of a generation of dumbed-down FPS with recoil tailored for gamepads (read: easier). Not exactly difficult when you're used to old school FPS, like CounterStrike, with actual recoil, rather than being able to spray a watermelon-sized target accurately at well over 20 meters.
> 
> That said, I've said multiple times I haven't had a problem with the DeathAdder. If you'd read past "omg he hates the brand I'm a total fanboy for," you'll see I've used almost their entire line of peripherals.
> 
> As far as Cloud drivers go, I much prefer internally-stored configs that are saved into the mouse itself. It's faster and far more reliable.




You're quite hyperbolic, aren't you? I merely responded to your comments about reliability by stating my experience was very different and that I assumed you just really beat on your mice since with normal use I'd gotten long lives out of multiple DeathAdders.

I'll skip over the fanboy part because I loath their headsets and very strongly dislike their keyboards, but you weren't to know that.

As for cloud vs. local, it is slightly faster, though I wouldn't agree that it's more reliable. Assuming you have an internet connection (a leap, I know) then you would have to log-in once and then wait for the download to happen, which is slower than an over-wire transfer. Of course, you're more limited with on-board memory and it does make the mice significantly more expensive for everyone even though it's a feature used by a subset of users. But more reliable? In order to set it up once you have to download software from the internet anyway, so you already have access. Once it's set up it works just as normal. The only "reliability" part is if you change something on one computer and the other is currently disconnected from the internet. Sure, that could happen, in theory, but what about other users who have multiple complete setups who won't take their mice home every time they make a change? The internet is significantly more convenient.

So, for the record, very little of this had to do with any fanboyism on my part and more to do with my disagreeing with your statements as facts. But, as XKCD put it:


----------



## Tsujigiri

Quote: 





capitafk said:


> Nothing beats Logitech mice. Nothing. You can throw them under a bus and they'll still work like new.


 

 That's good to hear. I don't want to replace my MX Revolution, since the newer model doesn't have nearly as many features.


----------



## wphantom

Quote: 





capitafk said:


> Nothing beats Logitech mice. Nothing. You can throw them under a bus and they'll still work like new.


 
  Man logitech mice are ****, I have a g9, the cord broke, my friend has a g500, double cliking issue and the cord broke, another firend has a g400, de cord is starting to break, plus the drivers are ****, I normally recomend the Razer Deathadder because it has the best sensor set up, and it has never failed, logitech design may be good, but quality and software are HORRIBLE. I would recommend razer, zowie, roccat or cm storm before logitech.


----------



## wphantom

Quote: 





tsujigiri said:


> That's good to hear. I don't want to replace my MX Revolution, since the newer model doesn't have nearly as many features.


 
  If you want a REAL mouse get a Razer Deathadder, Roccat Savu, CM Storm Spawn or any Zowie


----------



## Tsujigiri

I'll look into those. I don't need it to be really responsive for gaming, it would just be nice to have a wireless mouse with a decent number of shortcut features.


----------



## wphantom

Quote: 





mistrdave said:


> Nice thread. I'd like to weigh in with my opinion.
> 
> I have found that any decent laser mouse works as an effective gaming tool. I've known players to use old school Microsoft Intelli-point mice and absolutely raked the competition. Whatever your peripheral is, if you use it long enough, you will be a master of it if it meets your basic comfort requirements. "Gaming" mice do not equate to better performance.
> 
> ...


 
   You are just wrong, it is TRUE that you need something that fits your needs, but there are some rules:
   
  1. Laser mice suck, most of them (avago 9500, 9800 vcsel technology based) have positive acceleration, and they cant track consistently on all surfaces.
  2. Phillips twin-eye based mice suck (rat7/5, razer imperator, cm storm inferno) they suffer the same tracking problems as the laser ones because they use laser light too, and they have other problems like the z-axis bug.
  3. You NEED to have an optical mouse, they will track consistently on any surface, they will be smoother and have less problemes,and they will be cheaper as they are simpler.
   
  There are 5 good mouses:
   
  1. Razer Deathadder, simply the best mouse, perfect and smooth tracking, good drivers, good build quality, IT IS NOT ambidextrous, and the shape may not be for everyone.
  2. Roccat Savu, tracking similar to deathadder, good drivers and build quality, the shape is right handed so it might not be for everyone.
  3. CM Storm Spawn, good tracking and build, drivers had some problems, and the shape is very weird, it is very small and designed for an extreme claw grip.
  4. Zowie EC EVO, good traking and build quality, it uses no drivers so there are no problems there, the shape is similar to the deathadder
  5. Zowie AM, same as the EVO, but the shape is ambidextrous, like a WMO, so it is perfect for everyone.
   
  If you know something about mice you will notice that these mice have the same sensor, Avago 3090 (3988s for the deathadder), and that is because it is the best mouse sensor avilable, If you want your mouse to track nice, smooth and without problems you need a mouse with this sensor, but you will need a good mousepad too, acording to cooler master support you need a black matte surface, a cloth mousepad like a steelseries qck.


----------



## wphantom

Quote: 





tsujigiri said:


> I'll look into those. I don't need it to be really responsive for gaming, it would just be nice to have a wireless mouse with a decent number of shortcut features.


 
  stick to your mouse then, if you need a more responsive and accurate mouse you really need to look for the mice i said.


----------



## Tsujigiri

Ah ok, I'll keep Zowie in mind when I need a new mouse, though, that's the first time I've heard that brand mentioned.


----------



## wphantom

Quote: 





tsujigiri said:


> Ah ok, I'll keep Zowie in mind when I need a new mouse, though, that's the first time I've heard that brand mentioned.


 
  Is a serious proffesional gaming brand, it is not your typical full of marketing cheap quality plastic brand, it makes products thinking on competitive gamers and it designs its products based on the feedback of CS 1.6 legends like heaton and spawn.
   
http://www.zowiegear.com/


----------



## Tsujigiri

I like that they have a less crazy and more simple design, but unfortunately it looks like they're all wired. I guess a wireless would not be ideal for a gamer anyway...


----------



## Kizu

Just switching my cheap  mouse every half year. I used too intensive and it get broken all the time xD damn logitech


----------



## akash neagi

I have a collection of A4 Tech mice.....
  but I have been using a black ttesport level 10m for 3 months.....
  and I have to say I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Tsujigiri

Hey guys, do you have any recommendations for mice that don't need large dongles or stations to connect? The big USB dongle is my main gripe with my MX Revolution; I can't just leave it in my laptop all the time. I'd love to try out a Razer, but for some reason they decided to make all their wireless mice connect to a big docking station instead of a dongle. Kind of defeats the purpose of a wireless mouse you can take around. I know they have the Orochi, but it's too small, and if a mouse is too small to be comfortable to use, it's not really more convenient on the go than a full-sized. I was very seriously considering the Mad Catz M.O.U.S. 9 for its Bluetooth 4 connection, but the thing is so ugly and doesn't seem too durable. So right now the only appealing options I can see are the Logitech G700 or G700s, and the Performance MX. Anyone know of anything else good?


----------



## PFULMTL

Currently using a Steelseries Sensei

   
  I didn't like it at first coming from about three years using a Logitech G9 and then a G9X briefly.  I wish it was slighly heavier to feel perfect, but I take that for granted when I feel another mouse and I almost throw it across the table because it's so light.


----------



## wind016

I've used a Logitech MX518 for almost 8 years and it still works. It's an awesome mouse, but recently I felt it was time to upgrade. I got a Logitech MX Pro for my laptop since it even works on glass. However, my new favorite is the Logitech G700. It is an AMAZING mouse. It feels better than the MX518 to hold and has a quality heftiness to it. It's more comfortable than the MX Pro. Love the positions of the programmable buttons and love how it can become a corded or wireless seemlessly. I don't game much at all, but the G700 is an excellent mouse when I need to do some programming.
   
  I had some expensive Razer mice before (don't remember the names exactly, but probably related to some snakes) and the quality just didn't cut it for me. I found them kind of uncomfortable and the plastic felt cheaper. There's also something with their buttons. If you accidently spill a bit of soda onto the buttons, the buttons will just by sticky forever and become unusable. Never had that happen 8 years owning the MX518. Haven't spilled anything on the G700 yet though.


----------



## MoneIntuitive

i'm using Logitech Performance Mouse MX:
http://www.logitech.com/assets/19678/19678.png
  worth every penny


----------



## Tsujigiri

I just snagged a Razer Deathadder on eBay. Figured I might as well pick up a good wired mouse, and it seemed to get good reviews. Also, they recently updated it to a 2013 version. Since I don't exactly need the added performance, I figured I'd pick up the older version at half the going price of the new one. I think I'll also get a Logitech G700s when my new laptop arrives, and possible the Logitech touch mouse too...


----------



## Audio-Omega

I'm going to get Razer Taipan.  My wireless Logitech is driving me crazy !


----------



## Tsujigiri

Quote: 





audio-omega said:


> I'm going to get Razer Taipan.  My wireless Logitech is driving me crazy !


 

 Why, what's it doing? I just got a G700s and the software wouldn't recognize it. I searched through tons of solutions on the forums and even called Logitech. I tried updating the drivers as an admin, running a clean boot, restarting, uninstalling and reinstalling, installing a previous version of the software, using the windows 7 version, basically every tip that I found. Turned out that the issue was that I had to install the program as an admin, which Logitech is apparently unaware of. Well in any case I'm enjoying my mouse now...


----------



## Audio-Omega

It's not accurate or may be it's because I don't use a mouse pad.


----------



## Headxoxote

I was deciding between the Sensei and the Deathadder 2013, so i went with Razer! :] (had a bad experience with a steelseries headset)
   

   
  I like it but i think it should be just a little heavier :X


----------



## phillyd

Razer Naga Epic





Mionix Naos 3200





NZXT Avatar S


----------



## MrTechAgent

I do like the Mionix , but IMO Ttesport has taken the peripheral market by a storm.
  I love my Saphira 
  Quote: 





phillyd said:


> Razer Naga Epic
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## akash neagi

Quote: 





mrtechagent said:


> I do like the Mionix , but IMO Ttesport has taken the peripheral market by a storm.
> I love my Saphira


 
  I love my level 10m too....
  huge thermaltake fan!!!!


----------



## phillyd

I just don't care for the feel or look of any TT products.


----------



## fauaad

So, my mouse broke down and now I'm looking to get a new one. Nothing too special, something within $25-$30. I'm only gonna use it to play casual Dota, so I cannot justify spending more. So far, I've narrowed my choices down to the Logitech G400, the A4Tech X7 series and the A4Tech Bloody series.
   
  The G400 is on the limit of what I'm willing to spend, however, with the A4Techs I can grab a decent mousepad too. I was pretty much set on going with the G400 when I came across countless complaints of its wire breaking down, but it wasn't that big of an issue since Logitech replaces them if they're on warranty. The problem I'm facing is that theres no Logitech support centre where I'm from and to avail the warranty, I'll have to ship it, which will end up costing me almost as much as the mouse itself.
   
  So, I wanted to know, is the wire quality really an issue with the G400 or was it just a bad batch or something? Also, does anyone here have experience with these A4Tech mice? Besides being cheaper, they also come in different shapes, which will accommodate me more (I think) since I'm a claw gripper.


----------



## barid

Quote: 





fauaad said:


> So, my mouse broke down and now I'm looking to get a new one. Nothing too special, something within $25-$30. I'm only gonna use it to play casual Dota, so I cannot justify spending more. So far, I've narrowed my choices down to the Logitech G400, the A4Tech X7 series and the A4Tech Bloody series.
> 
> The G400 is on the limit of what I'm willing to spend, however, with the A4Techs I can grab a decent mousepad too. I was pretty much set on going with the G400 when I came across countless complaints of its wire breaking down, but it wasn't that big of an issue since Logitech replaces them if they're on warranty. The problem I'm facing is that theres no Logitech support centre where I'm from and to avail the warranty, I'll have to ship it, which will end up costing me almost as much as the mouse itself.
> 
> So, I wanted to know, is the wire quality really an issue with the G400 or was it just a bad batch or something? Also, does anyone here have experience with these A4Tech mice? Besides being cheaper, they also come in different shapes, which will accommodate me more (I think) since I'm a claw gripper.


 

 go with the logitech.  tried many dif mice for gaming and general use.  the old MS mice and standard logitech line are pretty much a go to.  dont overthink it.


----------



## Battou62

Some Ninox Auroras are staring to appear in the wild.
   
http://www.overclock.net/t/1240739/lightbox/post/20542563/id/1595312


----------



## fishbone

Quote: 





battou62 said:


> Some Ninox Auroras are staring to appear in the wild.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1240739/lightbox/post/20542563/id/1595312


 
   
  I'm a beta tester of this mouse and it's very good overall, it will be dirt cheap for what it's offering. But it's mainly for hardcore gamers, casual gamers won't be appealed by this mouse but I may be wrong.


----------



## Battou62

Quote: 





fishbone said:


> I'm a beta tester of this mouse and it's very good overall, it will be dirt cheap for what it's offering. But it's mainly for hardcore gamers, casual gamers won't be appealed by this mouse but I may be wrong.


 
  Man, I have been waiting on this mouse since he first stated designing it. I am not a hard core gamer, but I like knowing that my gear is technically sound in some aspects. I guess that's why I have a O2/Odac also


----------



## Emospence

Just discovered that head-fi had a mouse thread.. Subscribed.


----------



## Emospence

Using Zowie FK and Logitech G400 atm.. Waiting to see how Ninox Aurora turns out.
  
 I have 7.9 inch hands and fingertip grip, what mice would you guys recommend with similar tracking performance to my current ones?


----------



## wind016

Welcome! G400 is great. I think I have the original version called MX518. I've had the MX518 for maybe 10 years now. Still going strong on my gf's computer.
  
 What are your guys' favorite grip-shape and mouse? Also, why do you prefer your particular grip-shape? Mine is the palm and so far I love the Logitech G700. Any other palm-grip mice to recommend over the G700?
  
  
  
 Just a random thing, I also have the Corsair K95 and Razer Black Widow keyboards as well.


----------



## Emospence

wind016 said:


> Welcome! G400 is great. I think I have the original version called MX518. I've had the MX518 for maybe 10 years now. Still going strong on my gf's computer.
> 
> What are your guys' favorite grip-shape and mouse? Also, why do you prefer your particular grip-shape? Mine is the palm and so far I love the Logitech G700. Any other palm-grip mice to recommend over the G700?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd take the G400 over the G700 any day.
  
 Every mouse I've used has some flaw to it, but my favourite so far has to be the Zowie FK, great sensor performance and clicky, responsive buttons. A bit narrow though.
  
 I use fingertip grip, that's just the way I hold my mouse without thinking about it.


----------



## fishbone

emospence said:


> Using Zowie FK and Logitech G400 atm.. Waiting to see how Ninox Aurora turns out.
> 
> I have 7.9 inch hands and fingertip grip, what mice would you guys recommend with similar tracking performance to my current ones?


 
  
 I would say the G100s, before I was using the FK, it was quite nice but the G100s is way better to me, lighter, great shape and very good sensor (I can't make it skip). It is smaller than the FK so it should be better for fingetip grip.
 The Aurora is more for claw grip or even palm grip. The rear falls down sooner but it is a bit longer that you can't really use it for fingertip grip or it is very difficult (unless you have big hands).


----------



## Emospence

fishbone said:


> I would say the G100s, before I was using the FK, it was quite nice but the G100s is way better to me, lighter, great shape and very good sensor (I can't make it skip). It is smaller than the FK so it should be better for fingetip grip.
> The Aurora is more for claw grip or even palm grip. The rear falls down sooner but it is a bit longer that you can't really use it for fingertip grip or it is very difficult (unless you have big hands).


 
  
 I'm already feeling the FK is a little too thin and low for me :/


----------



## fishbone

By smaller, I meant the g100s is shorter. Otherwise it's taller (or at least it feels taller) and wider.


----------



## elbastardo

I have a Mionix Naos 5000. Best mouse I've ever used. I use a claw/palm hybrid grip and have large hands. Very good fit and ergonomics. Rubberized finish doesn't get as hot as I thought it would. I also love the software to change the settings, though it was a pain in the rear to download. 28th of October will be 3 years that I've had this mouse and have put it through clicking hell.


----------



## GL1TCH3D

Been using the logitech g9x for over 2 years and have enjoyed it every moment (besides the DOA one I received when I originally purchased it).
Unfortunately I believe it may be dying so I'm wondering if I should just wait til it goes on sale for about $50 or get a different mouse.
I see brands like mionix and ninox popping up here which I've never heard of before =O
I like the general size of the g9x, just not how low the scroll wheel is.


----------



## pookeyhead

Logitech G5 here.   I hope it doesn't break, because every other gaming mouse out there is either too small, too light, or shaped as if it's designed to be used by a mechanoid instead of a human being


----------



## SkyBleu

Razer Deathadder. Its lasted me for years now, and its a pretty damn sturdy and durable mouse!


----------



## Odinsreaver

I'm hating Razer. I believe I had 2 or 3 Razer products (?) but it's a disappointment. I'm just waiting for my Orochi to die so I can get something new.


----------



## elbastardo

Ok, my Naos 5000 died the other day and I replaced it with Gigabyte Krypton. You can swap feet out, between ceramic and teflon. Teflon is very smooth, while ceramic is very slick. On a cloth surface, the ceramic is a great blend of control and speed. DPI change on the fly, macros and weight adjustment are all there, as they seem to be common place on a lot of gaming mice nowadays. DPI can be set as high as 8200, but anything above 3000 is just too sensitive for me. The grip took some getting used to, but this seems to be me being accustomed to the Naos for 3 years. I am used to this one now. The jury is still out on durability, but I love it so far.


----------



## Scorpiolol

I am using Logitech Performance MX for about 4 years, no complaints at all.


----------



## sobe

Primary mouse is the Logitech G400, have to love the MX518 coming back to life in a new shell.


----------



## dotrunghieu

using Razer


----------



## cloudbinary

Logitech Performance Mouse MX

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


----------



## mjolnir1989

I use the Logitech G400. I was very comfortable with the classic Intelli 3.0 and to me, this has been a nice step up from it!


----------



## dj1001

Been using a Logitech G700 for the last 2.5 years. Goes with me everyday on campus and gets used on tables counters and desks almost always without a mouse pad as well as on my Ripper XXL at home. It has been such a solid mouse and if it were to ever break I would order a new one that day.


----------



## desyeo

Using Steelseries Sensei. Was recommended by a friend as it comes with afew features like one of the best is quick switch for 2 different dpi speeds


----------



## wind016

dj1001 said:


> Been using a Logitech G700 for the last 2.5 years. Goes with me everyday on campus and gets used on tables counters and desks almost always without a mouse pad as well as on my Ripper XXL at home. It has been such a solid mouse and if it were to ever break I would order a new one that day.


 
  
 G700 is amazing. I also have a G602 which I use in the office. It has a stupid design for gaming. The side buttons are between some bumps that also feel like the buttons but don't do anything. It's hard to know where you are on the side buttons. Great for office use though. Copy and paste, find, undo, redo and a bunch of things are programmed in. Great battery life.


----------



## H20Fidelity

GIGABYTE M6980.





 I especially like the left/right "click" programmable scroll wheel.

 I have these set for "page end" and "page top",  to speed things up for web browsing.


----------



## AxelCloris

I'm coming from the G700 gaming mouse. I picked up the G502 at PAX this weekend and, oh man, I think I may have found end-game for my desktop mouse. So comfortable, buttons feel amazing, the weight system is improved over the older ones, and it's an improvement in almost every way over my G700. I'll probably pick up a G602 for mobile mouse use down the road, but for home use I adore the G502.


----------



## Nec3

Alright here's my story.
 I've been exploring and trying a lot of mice, not one lasted for 2 years(except the logitech g5 that lasted 3 years).
 I'm tired of replacing mice.
 I went through a razer imperator, mionix naos 5000, and finally a corsair m95. My corsair's laser is VERY picky, or just broken. I've tried a $5 plastic mousepad, razer goliath, razer mazface, and a corsair MM400 in which was specifically designed for the m95. Funny enough, the mouse pad works like trying to use a mirror as a mouse pad; it doesn't. Unfortunately, this mouse decided to knock off all my more pricey mouse pads and opt for the $5 mouse pad. Although at higher DPI settings, the mouse pad fails to maintain accuracy.

 I can't return my m95 because I don't have warranty for it.

 I need a mouse that is/has:

Under $100 (including shipping)
Durable (Will last me over 2-3+ years)
3 thumb buttons (E.g. back and forward, plus another thumb button. I play mechwarrior online in which I use a toggle zoom, 3rd weapon fire, 4th weapon fire)
DPI Toggle/Button (2200 dpi and 800 dpi)
Wired
Not Razer.
  
 My hand position is preferably palm, not claw. I did NOT like the Razer Mamba, too thin for me.
 For the most part, I run an average DPI of around 2200 to 2800 depending on the surface my mouse likes.


----------



## AxelCloris

Might I recommend the new Logitech G502? Sounds like it has every quality you're looking for in a mouse. I use the third thumb button as a shift key to drop it to low DPI (default setting) which is great for precision shooting with sniper rifles in FPS games. I haven't even bothered to set up the second and third profile yet, but you can switch them on the fly with a single button or in the software.


----------



## barid

axelcloris said:


> Might I recommend the new Logitech G502? Sounds like it has every quality you're looking for in a mouse. I use the third thumb button as a shift key to drop it to low DPI (default setting) which is great for precision shooting with sniper rifles in FPS games. I haven't even bothered to set up the second and third profile yet, but you can switch them on the fly with a single button or in the software.




Ive heard a lot of good things about the 502. A lot of old quake players have recommended and hyped it to me lately. 

If only i didnt have 3 perfectly functional mice at the moment id grab one.


----------



## Nec3

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Proteus-Tunable-Customizable-910-004074/dp/B00IRHE892

 Is this what we're talking about?

 Because I'm about to hit the buy button, I'd like a mouse asap @_@


----------



## jjacq

I had a Razer Naga before but I really enjoy my G600 now. I have it in white and the LED cycles beautifully. Highly recommended if you need the extra buttons.


----------



## barid

nec3 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Proteus-Tunable-Customizable-910-004074/dp/B00IRHE892
> 
> Is this what we're talking about?
> 
> Because I'm about to hit the buy button, I'd like a mouse asap @_@


 

  Yeah I'm thinking thats the one.


----------



## Nec3

barid said:


> Yeah I'm thinking thats the one.


 


 Trigger pulled, I will be so sad if none of my mousepads work with this.


----------



## barid

nec3 said:


> Trigger pulled, I will be so sad if none of my mousepads work with this.


 
  
 I'd be surprised if that was the case.  By all reports its a great sensor.  Let us know if it has any issues tracking.
  
 Still plugging along with my old MX518  (xai and kinzu in the wings for when it dies).


----------



## AxelCloris

nec3 said:


> Trigger pulled, I will be so sad if none of my mousepads work with this.




The G502 has an adaptable sensor. take about 15-20 seconds to calibrate it to your mouse pad and you'll have no issue at all. It comes pre-set with a few Logitech pads but I use Mionix soft mouse pads and a HandStands dual sides Zero gaming hard pad. The 502 does exceptionally well on both surfaces for me.


----------



## Nec3

axelcloris said:


> The G502 has an adaptable sensor. take about 15-20 seconds to calibrate it to your mouse pad and you'll have no issue at all. It comes pre-set with a few Logitech pads but I use Mionix soft mouse pads and a HandStands dual sides Zero gaming hard pad. The 502 does exceptionally well on both surfaces for me.


 


 I'm a hard plastic-pad person, I like gliding my mouse here and there with no resistance. Most of my mice (with the exception of the mionix) allows me to keep my pinky on the pad for stabilizing.


----------



## Netforce

Been rocking my g9x and hard surface mouse pad for a while now. Fabric has been coming apart on me so it soon may be time to get another. The g502 looks rather nice.


----------



## vlenbo

netforce said:


> Been rocking my g9x and hard surface mouse pad for a while now. Fabric has been coming apart on me so it soon may be time to get another. The g502 looks rather nice.


 
 Flawless sensor, claw grip (from what I've read), adaptable surface tracking, good build, nice buttons, and a braided cord for a package of $79.99?
  
 TAKE
  
 MY
  



nec3 said:


> I'm a hard plastic-pad person, I like gliding my mouse here and there with no resistance. Most of my mice (with the exception of the mionix) allows me to keep my pinky on the pad for stabilizing.


 
 It should be able to track most surfaces sans the glass.
  
 The logitech g502 has a surface tuning feature that has been scarcely discussed in the overclock mice thread.


----------



## Pudu

I've been really enjoying the Roccat Pure optical for my gaming rig. 

The middle button on Corsair M65 that I use on my work rig has very recently started going dicky. I wish Roccat would hurry up with their XTD optical which is what I want to replace this with.


----------



## Nec3

Logitech G502 came in the mail. I'm loving the macro options, I'm loving the scroll wheel (LOOK AT THAT THING SPIN!!)
 I'm loving that it can be used on my mouse, it fits my palm grip, it has the right amount of friction when moving it around, the buttons are very tactile and satisfying. I'm a happy customer


----------



## vlenbo

nec3 said:


> Logitech G502 came in the mail. I'm loving the macro options, I'm loving the scroll wheel (LOOK AT THAT THING SPIN!!)
> I'm loving that it can be used on my mouse, it fits my palm grip, it has the right amount of friction when moving it around, the buttons are very tactile and satisfying. I'm a happy customer


 
 Perfect, is the weight of the mouse making it unbearable to wield?
  
 Also, how's the sensor performance?
  
 Congrats on receiving the logitech g502!


----------



## Netforce

Damn you logitech and your patented mouse wheel. I can't live without it now.


----------



## Nec3

netforce said:


> Damn you logitech and your patented mouse wheel. I can't live without it now.


 

 If anything, I'm actually afraid of the wheel breaking, it feels very light compared to the heavily gripped mice I had in the past. Although, the scroll wheel is the ABSOLUTE BEST scrolling around and having fun with it while waiting for a game to load.
  


vlenbo said:


> Perfect, is the weight of the mouse making it unbearable to wield?
> 
> Also, how's the sensor performance?
> 
> Congrats on receiving the logitech g502!


 

 My previous mouse was actually noticeably a lot heavier (corsair M95) so this one was a major improvement. I don't play twitch-shooters so a moderately weight mouse was good for me. I didn't need to add any weights.

 The sensor is great, although nothing new; it's great to have a reliable sensor on my side again. If anything the sensor is annoying because IT'S SO ACCURATE. If my hand twitches, it picks it up and feels way too fluid. My DPS is 2200 (exactly 1 inch to get my cursor from one side to the other), and I set my DPI shift to 600 for sniper modes.
  

 Additional thoughts:

 I think I have short thumbs. The tip of my thumb touches the default DPI Shift button, and I need to angle the mouse awkwardly to hold it there. In the end I just used G8 and G7 as Forward and Back, G4 as DPI shift, D5 as Right Alt (I use right alt for teamspeak).

 G9 and the default DPI shift button have yet to be profiled.


----------



## Blisse

Looked at the G502 and decided no because of the mouse wheel, it just looks hideous!


----------



## Netforce

The mouse wheel looks like Beauty


----------



## AxelCloris

I don't really care how the mouse wheel looks as long as it works smoothly. It has the Logitech infinite/stepped scrolling and the wheel is made of metal so it won't wear with heavy use.


----------



## Nec3

Well the mouse is going to be under my hand the whole time, so I didn't really care about the aesthetics.


----------



## rawrster

I stopped by microcenter today and picked up the G502  I've never had a gaming mouse before so should be interesting. I was using a anywhere mx mouse for my laptop (as my pc is still newly built) previously but looking forward to seeing how this mouse is.


----------



## Pudu

I quite like logi designs, and the infinite mouse wheel is great. However, over the years I've had at least two logi mice that had hideous coil whine which drove me crazy - especially with open headphones. So I will likely never buy another logitech mouse.


----------



## devouringone3 (Apr 14, 2019)

Tweakable / adjustable mouse *M.M.O. 7*:

...

 (a R.A.T. 7 was also posted here; it's the same mouse, just with 10 buttons less)


----------



## barid

devouringone3 said:


> Tweakable / adjustable mouse *M.M.O. 7*:
> 
> 
> (a R.A.T. 7 was also posted here; it's the same mouse, just with 10 buttons less)


 
  
 Did they ever address the sensor on these?  I recall when the RAT was released there was some major flaws with its sensor (tracking, accel).  Really cool design, but it failed the functional test.


----------



## devouringone3

I never had any tracking issue with my two M.M.O. 7 (on my first one the scroll wheel went dead though). I think I remember some who complained about the 6400 DPI twin-eye sensor being prone to erratic behavior in presence of cat hair or dirt.
  
  
 The R.A.T. was released a while ago, I think soon after the Razer Deathadder in 2006. The newest RAT has the 8200 DPI Phillips® Doppler-laser sensor.
  
  
 By the time the M.M.O. 7 got released the R.A.T. was still the only mice on the market to address so many individual hand shape and size difference and grip preferences.
  
 Its thumb panel button layout is ergonomic; all 10 buttons can be reached with barely any thumb movement. It has a horizontal scroll wheel.
  
 Design > “Function” for me. I replaced mine, and I would buy another. I have come to rely on it (macro-wise) to web browse, navigate the OS, use software and play games.


----------



## zennoukinkai

I have a Steelseries Sensei RAW Heat Orange. Sorry I can't post pics as I need 40 posts or something


----------



## 343 Grenadier

Man, if guys from ESReality.com came here, they'd eat this whole thread alive. No offense, guys, but audiophiles are best-suited to judging audio gear and gamers are best-suited to judging gaming gear. I had just a glimpse of some of the things said here and cringed. For the record, Razer generally isn't durable with just a few exceptions (and neither is Steelseries); lightweight mice are generally the best choices for FPS games because they're easier to physically control, especially if you're a low-sens gamer; and most importantly, all laser mice have tracking issues. Go infrared optical, folks. Lower CPI ratings on average (Although not always, as the G502 proves.), but most of them have flawless 1:1 tracking and are thus more precise than laser-based alternatives.
  
 I can see other mice working if you're just using them for their ergonomics or productivity features, or you happen to play MMOs and require a ton of macro buttons instead of absolute tracking precision, but if you're using these things for RTS or FPS gaming, or anything else that requires minute precision, opticals are really the only way. This is the general consensus of the gaming community. Laser mice have acceleration issues, some have Z-axis tracking, and they're pretty picky about what surfaces they work on. Yeah, true, they can track on glass, but often jitter to insane degrees on surfaces which aren't mostly flat, including a lot of cloth mousepads.
  
 I tend to use this site to learn about audio gear, and I'm glad such a resource is available for the masses, but its specialization is audio. For mice, I recommend instead that you visit ESReality.com or Overclock.net. One of the best articles I've seen was on Geekhack, though. (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0) Geekhack, Overclock.net, and Deskthority are great places to learn about keyboards, especially mechanicals.


----------



## Rumiho

Using a Razor Death Adder 2013 ed. atm as I got it cheap of Amazon earlier this year. It performs quite well in all the games I play and the build quality+ led lighting (could have been better if you could change the colors) are great.


----------



## fishbone

343 grenadier said:


> Man, if guys from ESReality.com came here, they'd eat this whole thread alive. No offense, guys, but audiophiles are best-suited to judging audio gear and gamers are best-suited to judging gaming gear. I had just a glimpse of some of the things said here and cringed. For the record, Razer generally isn't durable with just a few exceptions (and neither is Steelseries); lightweight mice are generally the best choices for FPS games because they're easier to physically control, especially if you're a low-sens gamer; and most importantly, all laser mice have tracking issues. Go infrared optical, folks. Lower CPI ratings on average (Although not always, as the G502 proves.), but most of them have flawless 1:1 tracking and are thus more precise than laser-based alternatives.
> 
> I can see other mice working if you're just using them for their ergonomics or productivity features, or you happen to play MMOs and require a ton of macro buttons instead of absolute tracking precision, but if you're using these things for RTS or FPS gaming, or anything else that requires minute precision, opticals are really the only way. This is the general consensus of the gaming community. Laser mice have acceleration issues, some have Z-axis tracking, and they're pretty picky about what surfaces they work on. Yeah, true, they can track on glass, but often jitter to insane degrees on surfaces which aren't mostly flat, including a lot of cloth mousepads.
> 
> I tend to use this site to learn about audio gear, and I'm glad such a resource is available for the masses, but its specialization is audio. For mice, I recommend instead that you visit ESReality.com or Overclock.net. One of the best articles I've seen was on Geekhack, though. (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0) Geekhack, Overclock.net, and Deskthority are great places to learn about keyboards, especially mechanicals.


 
  
 I'm an ESR guy and I facepalm when I read this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If you guys are still interested in the Ninox Aurora mouse, you can pre-order it here : http://ninox.org/shop.html
 Mouse made by the community. I was part of the beta test team and it's a killer mouse.


----------



## Darthmullet

I am a big Razer Naga fan. I dislike their keyboards and headphones (they feel gaudy to me) but the Naga is my go-to mouse. It highly increases productivity, as well as performance in all game-genres. I've owned the Molten, Epic, and 2014 versions.
  
 The 2014 has mechanical thumb buttons which I greatly enjoy, and the Synapse 2.0 software is much better than the competition from Logitech imho. It offers full program-ability for buttons and can match different preset profiles to different programs. It is seamless for me.


----------



## Pudu

I have been _very _patiently waiting for the Roccat XTD optical to actually hit retail. But said patience is running out - they announced it in January, it's been on sale in selected European locations for three months and still is completely MIA in N. America as far as I know. My Corsair M65's middle button retired itself last winter and I've been holding out till now. But I'm a few days away from giving up on them altogether.

:mad:


----------



## lbbef

Anyone has a good mouse and mousepad to recommend?
  
 I've tried Artisan mousepads when I was at Tokyo Game Show last month and feel that they are really good.
 For mouse I think the current one that catches my eye is the Mionix Naos 7000.
  
 I need a good one for mainly 3D modelling and the occasional game.


----------



## fishbone

lbbef said:


> Anyone has a good mouse and mousepad to recommend?
> 
> I've tried Artisan mousepads when I was at Tokyo Game Show last month and feel that they are really good.
> For mouse I think the current one that catches my eye is the Mionix Naos 7000.
> ...


 
  
 I'm using a Logitech G400s (hyperglides mousefeet) and a Artisan Hien and couldn't be more happy to be honest. This combo is going to last a very long time. And just to say, I'm very picky with my mouse/mousepad combo since I've played at a high level on some competitive games.
 If you want a more silky feel with your mousepad (the Hien has a much more rough feeling to the hand/wrist like a pair of jeans) you can look at the Artisan Zero.


----------



## chewbroccoli

Mionix Naos 8200 on a steel series qck mini
  
 I used to have a razer mamba and razer lachesis but I felt that razer products didn't last as well as they should and their customer support was terrible, I never got the lachesis working properly.
  
 I love the Naos, comfy, nice software, and it's holding up well.


----------



## 343 Grenadier

lbbef said:


> Anyone has a good mouse and mousepad to recommend?
> 
> I've tried Artisan mousepads when I was at Tokyo Game Show last month and feel that they are really good.
> For mouse I think the current one that catches my eye is the Mionix Naos 7000.
> ...


 
  
 If you don't mind relatively low CPI at around 3200-4000, the Zowie FK1 and Ninox Aurora are viable options. The G400S is also nice if you like comfort. I actually compiled a whole list of optical mice to choose from, if you'd like, but I'd recommend sticking with recommended options from the Geekhack guide linked in the beginning of said list.
  
 http://unitdccxxxi.deviantart.com/journal/Optical-Mice-List-Rev-1-0-475927418


----------



## SeEnCreaTive

I was looking for something to replace my basic logitec optical mouse (yes one of those $12 ones) it was 8 years old most of which was gaming
  
 I didn't want something shaped for palming (Im a claw user), or a bunch of buttons ect ect. I for the Logitec G100s. Left click, right click, wheel, and DPS button. Its ambidextrous, Exact shape and size as the basic one it was replacing, all for $35. With a VERY high quality sensor. Purely amazing


----------



## SleathX1

My Corsair M65 came in last night and MAN IS IT SMOOTH! Coming from a Razer mouse, this thing is so comfortable, fast, precise and best of all, it is built like a TANK. It has the adjustable weights so you can change it from an M1 Abrams to a Lotus Exige by taking those weights out if you like a light mouse (I like it how it is). The sweat groove thingies are awesome, but I haven't really started using it heavily yet, so we'll see. They look sick too. And last of all, the software isn't **** like Razer's is. Such a relief there.
  
 I picked up the non-RGB version, which was only $49. That is such a steal, I hope others pick this thing up too.
  
 I've literally used it for one night and I hope that it will last me for years because I know others have.


----------



## TrollDragon

343 grenadier said:


> If you don't mind relatively low CPI at around 3200-4000, the Zowie FK1 and Ninox Aurora are viable options. The G400S is also nice if you like comfort. I actually compiled a whole list of optical mice to choose from, if you'd like, but I'd recommend sticking with recommended options from the Geekhack guide linked in the beginning of said list.
> 
> http://unitdccxxxi.deviantart.com/journal/Optical-Mice-List-Rev-1-0-475927418


 
 Amazing work, well done list!


----------



## SeEnCreaTive

343 grenadier said:


> If you don't mind relatively low CPI at around 3200-4000, the Zowie FK1 and Ninox Aurora are viable options. The G400S is also nice if you like comfort. I actually compiled a whole list of optical mice to choose from, if you'd like, but I'd recommend sticking with recommended options from the Geekhack guide linked in the beginning of said list.
> 
> http://unitdccxxxi.deviantart.com/journal/Optical-Mice-List-Rev-1-0-475927418


 
  
  
 Don't forget super high DPI can actually mean worse tracking in some cases, as most to achieve super high DPIs, will artificially split pixels. Meaning if that pixel was an error (does happen in all mice) it can multiply that error making things worse. That being said, if it really is a quality mouse, it should be ok. (Logitec goes as far as to measure the alignment of the actual diode in the epoxy lens of the LEDs to make sure the supplier is hitting the mark, and they don't generally openly focus on DPI when advertising.) I generally aim for a lower DPI mouse, you know the quality is there if they aren't focusing on the DPI box sticker.
  
 There's a lot more to accuracy then DPI. But on the topic of that list, I have heard very good things about Zowie mice from lots of people. I would highly recommend Logitech mice after my G100s experience (I think it goes to 2500dpi? I have mine set at 1250). Lowest end, its non-laser, cost $35, and I simply can't get this thing to have tracking issues, Im a high sensitivity gamer so I generally don't move my mouse enough to cause problems, but Ive actually tried to make this mouse to not track, haven't been successful
  
 I wouldn't recommend the 400s when the new 402 has a bunch of other sensors (gyro, accelerator ect) and a 32-bit system on-board, too account for the tracking at high-speed issues the optical sensor might have, IF it ever has any, and its the same price as the 400s. $60
  
 Well that's my Logitech fanboy schpeal, if anything that I said didn't get through, dat hydrophobic coating their mice have is enough to make me want to buy all of them o.O


----------



## 343 Grenadier

seencreative said:


> Don't forget super high DPI can actually mean worse tracking in some cases, as most to achieve super high DPIs, will artificially split pixels. Meaning if that pixel was an error (does happen in all mice) it can multiply that error making things worse. That being said, if it really is a quality mouse, it should be ok. (Logitec goes as far as to measure the alignment of the actual diode in the epoxy lens of the LEDs to make sure the supplier is hitting the mark, and they don't generally openly focus on DPI when advertising.) I generally aim for a lower DPI mouse, you know the quality is there if they aren't focusing on the DPI box sticker.
> 
> There's a lot more to accuracy then DPI. But on the topic of that list, I have heard very good things about Zowie mice from lots of people. I would highly recommend Logitech mice after my G100s experience (I think it goes to 2500dpi? I have mine set at 1250). Lowest end, its non-laser, cost $35, and I simply can't get this thing to have tracking issues, Im a high sensitivity gamer so I generally don't move my mouse enough to cause problems, but Ive actually tried to make this mouse to not track, haven't been successful
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 The G402 was reported as having some built-in positive accel. The G502 is said to have very slight prediction but overall the only real complaint people have about it is it's too heavy. The G400S is, as I can attest personally, probably more comfortable than the G502/G402 shape for a lot of people as it's wider. The G100S isn't a bad mouse at all, but I would rate it as less flexible than the Ninox Aurora and more people are likely to find a use for the Zowie FK1's higher sensitivities. Yes, I'm fully aware that lower is more accurate but some people actually perform better at higher sensitivities than the G100S offers, especially in RTS games and while using higher resolutions. There are reasons to consider the alternatives.
  
 (Fun fact: I can use the G502 at its 12,000 CPI setting on a 1920x1080 screen. It's not very accurate but I can hold my own. I still use much lower sensitivities when I'm playing seriously, though.)


----------



## SeEnCreaTive

343 grenadier said:


> The G402 was reported as having some built-in positive accel. The G502 is said to have very slight prediction but overall the only real complaint people have about it is it's too heavy. The G400S is, as I can attest personally, probably more comfortable than the G502/G402 shape for a lot of people as it's wider. The G100S isn't a bad mouse at all, but I would rate it as less flexible than the Ninox Aurora and more people are likely to find a use for the Zowie FK1's higher sensitivities. Yes, I'm fully aware that lower is more accurate but some people actually perform better at higher sensitivities than the G100S offers, especially in RTS games and while using higher resolutions. There are reasons to consider the alternatives.
> 
> (Fun fact: I can use the G502 at its 12,000 CPI setting on a 1920x1080 screen. It's not very accurate but I can hold my own. I still use much lower sensitivities when I'm playing seriously, though.)


 
  
 You have to define how you set sensitivity though. Even at my relativity "low" setting on my G100S, I have game sensitivity settings at 5-8 out of 100. Anything DPI setting higher on my mouse causes they in-game sliders single notch either be too low or too high. Which all these sliders to is change the muliplier so in theory don't effect accuracy. With my current Windows setting its about a 3-inch movement end to end on my 1080p. All this, and it at 1125 DPI. Max on this mouse is 2500.
  
 That being said, the G100 is one of the most popular mouse in Korea for RTS games, hence the "new" G100S.
  
 Of course all games sliders are different. 5 mins spent here, of course, will get you make to the normal feel you're used to.
  
 Shape is a null point, TBH my old generic optical mouse was the best shape for me (especially with buttons that were separate from the rest of the body), which is another reason why I like my 100s, close to the same. Although single body buttons and a terrible feeling wheel. It's different for everybody.
  
 Being a good gamer is half psychological, which means you have to play with what you're comfortable with. If that means an in game sensitivity setting of nothing and super high DPIs to make up for it, that's fine, heck I highly encourage it, But for someone who knows nothing about mouse tech, and is asking what to look for, they shouldn't have super DPI as a requirement pushed onto them. As some gamers swear by it, or others like me don't see a difference in accuracy, and doesn't make much sense mathematically either. 
  
 Like I said, this is why Im a Logitech fan boy. Yes their mice do of ridiculous DPI, but they don't push it as a selling point. They instead push the durability, surface materials and that's really it. Im sure I could find a better mouse out there for me, but for that reason alone that I just said, Im a big fan.
  
 Now all that being said, the 502 Ive heard really great things about, and have used it, it does feel great (Although I didn't get to use it in a game sadly). Best part is, its adjustable. For relatively cheap


----------



## mccarver

I am currently on a Logitech G500 but the best one I actually used was my previous G518: far superior to anything I used so far. Unfortunately not fast enough for modern gaming..


----------



## 343 Grenadier

seencreative said:


> You have to define how you set sensitivity though. Even at my relativity "low" setting on my G100S, I have game sensitivity settings at 5-8 out of 100. Anything DPI setting higher on my mouse causes they in-game sliders single notch either be too low or too high. Which all these sliders to is change the muliplier so in theory don't effect accuracy. With my current Windows setting its about a 3-inch movement end to end on my 1080p. All this, and it at 1125 DPI. Max on this mouse is 2500.
> 
> That being said, the G100 is one of the most popular mouse in Korea for RTS games, hence the "new" G100S.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Personally, I'm opposed to any kind of brand loyalty since it can cause someone to recommend one product over another which may be better for specific requirements. I'm also opposed to people making recommendations based solely on their own preferences while failing to factor in that not everyone is like them. And as if to prove my point, I'm seeing some bias here.
  
 First off, some people do indeed pay a lot of attention to mouse shape. The rear of the G100S is narrow, which might annoy people who want to minimize the amount of contact their palm has with the mousing surface. And I've found the G400S's shape to be extremely comfortable, more so than any other mouse I've used. Of particular note is the fact that there are three different primary grip types and they all require very different shapes relative to each other for any one person's hand. Mouse shape is not at all a "null point."
  
 Second off, there are quite a few folks I know who prefer mouse settings around the ballpark of 3K CPI or so. They're not highly competitive players but they still value the accuracy of true CPI as opposed to ingame interpolation. (Any setting above the game's "1.0" setting adds pixels, reducing accuracy further and further the higher up you go.) That a mouse has high CPI doesn't mean it's supposed to sell based on that. Again, see the G502. That said, the G502 is also a bad example, since it is far too heavy for most experienced competitive gamers, who often prefer mice around HALF the weight of the G502.
  
 Third off, some companies, like Roccat and Mionix, have mice of comparable build quality to Logitech's, but they tend to be lighter. It's also worth noting, once again, that Logitech's track record for proper internals is mixed. The G402 has acceleration, meaning it might as well be an Avago/Pixart laser mouse. The G502 has slight prediction. The G400S is using a newer SROM which reduces its responsiveness relative to the G400. So if you factor in sensor/firmware performance as well, there are plenty of reasons to steer clear of Logitech. The G100S is one of the things they mostly got right, but it's not for everyone. Me? I do best when I play within the CPI range of the G100S but there are situations where I require higher CPI, such as in some older games which respond sluggishly on modern systems.
  
 So my approach with regards to mice is to ascertain both what they want in ergonomics and what they want for sensitivity. For ergonomics, I use their mouse's dimensions and weight as a reference point and ask them how they wish to improve on it, if they want to improve at all. For sensitivity, I ask what their current mouse model is so I can determine the CPI count it's set to, then figure out what ingame settings they use, and calculate whether or not they will benefit from higher CPI. Ex.: Someone who uses 6.0 settings in TF2 with an 800 CPI mouse (I've found this is quite common amongst the less competitive gamers I know.) will want something capable of running at 4800 CPI, which is significantly higher than the 2500 on the G100S, or even the 3200 on the Zowie FK1. Something which runs at the 3310 sensor's native resolution of 5000 will be necessary. One popular choice is the Kone Pure Military, and another would be the Mionix Avior 7000. Neither are exactly perfect but they get the job done for most people.


----------



## drez

Thoughts on Logitech G502:
  
*Good*:
  
 -Sensor is great.  L/R click feel is good.
  
*Bad*:
  
-Shape and ergonomics do not suite my hand.  I can't do claw, fingertip or palm.  None work for me.  The shape might work for someone but I still think it's a bit off.
 -Mac software is broken
 -Scroll wheel is pretty mediocre in feel, but main problem is its stupidly heavy and this ruins the balance of the mouse, and makes it heavier than it needs to be, increases fatigue, RSI etc.
 -Weights are (always) useless, mouse is already too heavy and I don't want *more* RSI thank you.  No serious gamer uses weighs.  Nobody else should use them either.  Stupid gimmick idea.
  
  
 Overall mouse has good sensors and buttons.  The rest is pretty sub-par.  I would not recommend.


----------



## Netforce

Is the weight seriously that big of an issue for people? I have a rather injured wrist and have just kinda turned up the dpi on the g502 to compensate for that.
  
 I'm doing a claw grip on mine fine. I leave my scroll wheel unlocked, pretty much unlocked scroll wheels are the reason I keep using logitech g series mice.
  
 I disagree about the weights but I guess it is different stroke for different folks. I don't use any in my g502 or in my g9x but I have a few friends who use some weight and ultra low dpi in shooters or in mmos. My brother in his mouse uses the max weight he can.


----------



## drez

From my experience it's not only injury but fatigue.  More weight = more strain IMO.  I used to find my performance would peak out but fatigue then kicks in and performance drops.  to me g502 _feels_ significantly heavier than SS Rival or Roccat Kone XTD - feels heavier even pushing around the mousepad.  I'm sure that must translate to less speed and proportionally faster fatigue point.  Actually the Roccat shape is pretty poor for gaming but massively comfortable for work just palming it.
  
 Maybe when you are younger fatigue takes longer to kick in, also for me gaming comes in after a full day of pushing a mouse around at work - which is actually where I do most of my mouse miles (CAD drafting and 3D).  I used to use G9X but the scroll broke on me.  Free scroll is OK but not worth the weight.
  
 The shape is not that bad actually, just the weight really puts me of.
  
 One other advantage to g502 - mouse click input lag has tens of milliseconds over other mice, which would probably help in ambush situations, but if the mouse needs to move I think the weight would slow things down and kill the advantage.
  
 For me if they just put the 502 sensor in 402 shell that would be a perfect mouse, but instead they had to go crazy with features which nobody _should_ use IMO.  Logitech must be massive trolls lol.
  
 I watch a lot of pro gaming and have never seen a mouse model used which allows for weights.  Lots of Zowie, SS Kinzu, Razer DA, a couple of SS Rival.


----------



## Netforce

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Pro_gear
 I see quite a few logitech g9x, whether they use weights or not is a different question. Some Korean pros I've seen a g9x with like no shell or anything on it so yeah may be different gamers different preferences. Also a lot of pro gamers are just using their sponsors gear.
  
 All the tech inside the g502 maybe the reason for its weight, over engineering and trying to appeal to all.
  
 Guess it mostly different people different tastes. I'm pretty content with the weight of the g9x and the g502 to where I use my g9x at work and g502 at home.


----------



## drez

If it works for taeja and mma... different strokes etc. Different requirements for sc vs cs also.

I think the weight difference is all in the scroll wheel though. If I end up using mine for gaming I will remove the wheel and weigh it  extra construction for weight compartment probably adds a few grams too.


----------



## Netforce

G9x, mouse of terrans and champions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Altering such a beautiful mouse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh well its all good lol.


----------



## 343 Grenadier

netforce said:


> G9x, mouse of terrans and champions
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Only if you play RTS. The positive acceleration precludes many serious shooter players from using it. The accel also isn't really beneficial to RTS play, either, it's just not nearly as big of an issue. The weight's also annoying. People who play shooters usually prefer something light with an infrared optical sensor at a low sensitivity like 400-450 CPI on a decent soft mousepad. This setup is the easiest to control as it wears players out the least and is the most responsive and true to the movements of your hands. Basically 1:1 translation of hand movement to pointer movement. Might not be that important for boxing units or clicking on individual structures to attack during intensive micro, but it matters if you're sniping in CS.


----------



## TrollDragon

I found a great price on the Mionix Naos 7000 and it's is going to replace an old Microsoft Wireless 2000.
 Any opinions on the Mionix? Good choice?


----------



## drez

Awesome shape for fingertip grip.  Rubbish software.  Tis about all i know as I have the 8200


----------



## TrollDragon

Well since the Mionix was sold out today on NCIX and no stock on other higher rated mice, I managed to pick up a SteelSeries Sensei Pro locally for $60.


----------



## 343 Grenadier

trolldragon said:


> I found a great price on the Mionix Naos 7000 and it's is going to replace an old Microsoft Wireless 2000.
> Any opinions on the Mionix? Good choice?


 
  
 I haven't been able to find info on the Naos 7000's sensor performance. The Naos 3200 has prediction, I think. I know the Naos 7000 doesn't, but I can't speak for smoothing, drivers, or high-latency mouse buttons. It's not a bad mouse, but I would approach it with caution. I should note, however, that if you want 7000 CPI, you will be disappointed. It's using a 3310 sensor, so anything above 5000 CPI is interpolated anyway. Some tests I've heard about show that it's not even really faster on 7K.  This in mind, I'll list you some alternatives which get favorable impressions overall: Roccat Kone Pure Military, Corsair Raptor M45, and maybe the Steelseries Rival. I would, of course, avoid Razer like the plague on general principle as their products are almost ALWAYS badly-built and have an unhealthy tendency to break, but if you're okay with that, the Deathadder 2013 and Chroma may be for you. And don't be lured in by the Chroma's "10000 CPI" capability. It is still using a 3310 sensor and just interpolating anything higher. Similarly, mice with more than 5000 CPI using the 3310 are still interpolating above it. If you need higher true CPI than 5000 on an optical sensor, the Logitech G502 is something I would conditionally recommend if you're okay with very slight prediction and a heavy weight. At least it works. On a note somewhat closer to home, if you're okay with an ambidextrous shape, the Mionix Avior 7000 is also a respectable enough mouse.


----------



## TrollDragon

343 grenadier said:


> I haven't been able to find info on the Naos 7000's sensor performance. The Naos 3200 has prediction, I think. I know the Naos 7000 doesn't, but I can't speak for smoothing, drivers, or high-latency mouse buttons. It's not a bad mouse, but I would approach it with caution. I should note, however, that if you want 7000 CPI, you will be disappointed. It's using a 3310 sensor, so anything above 5000 CPI is interpolated anyway. Some tests I've heard about show that it's not even really faster on 7K.  This in mind, I'll list you some alternatives which get favorable impressions overall: Roccat Kone Pure Military, Corsair Raptor M45, and maybe the Steelseries Rival. I would, of course, avoid Razer like the plague on general principle as their products are almost ALWAYS badly-built and have an unhealthy tendency to break, but if you're okay with that, the Deathadder 2013 and Chroma may be for you. And don't be lured in by the Chroma's "10000 CPI" capability. It is still using a 3310 sensor and just interpolating anything higher. Similarly, mice with more than 5000 CPI using the 3310 are still interpolating above it. If you need higher true CPI than 5000 on an optical sensor, the Logitech G502 is something I would conditionally recommend if you're okay with very slight prediction and a heavy weight. At least it works. On a note somewhat closer to home, if you're okay with an ambidextrous shape, the Mionix Avior 7000 is also a respectable enough mouse.


 

 Thanks for all the great info 343 Grenadier but I picked up a SS Sensei Pro at a much better price as the Naos was sold out.


----------



## angelo898

343 grenadier said:


> I haven't been able to find info on the Naos 7000's sensor performance. The Naos 3200 has prediction, I think. I know the Naos 7000 doesn't, but I can't speak for smoothing, drivers, or high-latency mouse buttons. It's not a bad mouse, but I would approach it with caution. I should note, however, that if you want 7000 CPI, you will be disappointed. It's using a 3310 sensor, so anything above 5000 CPI is interpolated anyway. Some tests I've heard about show that it's not even really faster on 7K.  This in mind, I'll list you some alternatives which get favorable impressions overall: Roccat Kone Pure Military, Corsair Raptor M45, and maybe the Steelseries Rival. I would, of course, avoid Razer like the plague on general principle as their products are almost ALWAYS badly-built and have an unhealthy tendency to break, but if you're okay with that, the Deathadder 2013 and Chroma may be for you. And don't be lured in by the Chroma's "10000 CPI" capability. It is still using a 3310 sensor and just interpolating anything higher. Similarly, mice with more than 5000 CPI using the 3310 are still interpolating above it. If you need higher true CPI than 5000 on an optical sensor, the Logitech G502 is something I would conditionally recommend if you're okay with very slight prediction and a heavy weight. At least it works. On a note somewhat closer to home, if you're okay with an ambidextrous shape, the Mionix Avior 7000 is also a respectable enough mouse.


 
 kinda funny, i dislike the avior cause its too small, any recommendations? i have been using the avior for about 7 months now haha


----------



## Zulkr9

343 grenadier said:


> I haven't been able to find info on the Naos 7000's sensor performance. The Naos 3200 has prediction, I think. I know the Naos 7000 doesn't, but I can't speak for smoothing, drivers, or high-latency mouse buttons. It's not a bad mouse, but I would approach it with caution. I should note, however, that if you want 7000 CPI, you will be disappointed. It's using a 3310 sensor, so anything above 5000 CPI is interpolated anyway. Some tests I've heard about show that it's not even really faster on 7K.  This in mind, I'll list you some alternatives which get favorable impressions overall: Roccat Kone Pure Military, Corsair Raptor M45, and maybe the Steelseries Rival. I would, of course, avoid Razer like the plague on general principle as their products are almost ALWAYS badly-built and have an unhealthy tendency to break, but if you're okay with that, the Deathadder 2013 and Chroma may be for you. And don't be lured in by the Chroma's "10000 CPI" capability. It is still using a 3310 sensor and just interpolating anything higher. Similarly, mice with more than 5000 CPI using the 3310 are still interpolating above it. If you need higher true CPI than 5000 on an optical sensor, the Logitech G502 is something I would conditionally recommend if you're okay with very slight prediction and a heavy weight. At least it works. On a note somewhat closer to home, if you're okay with an ambidextrous shape, the Mionix Avior 7000 is also a respectable enough mouse.


 
 Avior 7000 has the best sensor performance in the market along with zowie's implementation of the 3310 as both of these don't have the smoothing effect that the others have.


----------



## drez

Naos 7000 isn't a bad mouse, quite comfortable to hold but I find it fatigues my forearm after extended use, and I do not like having the ARM controller inside the mouse.  The sensor and tracking are very nice, and the weight is very light.  
  
 My current go to mouse is the SS Rival which I use at work and at home.  I find myself going to claw grip or palming, but there is no fatigue on the forearm, only ever in the hand itself.


----------



## xsk3l3t0rx

razer naga epic FTW. its got 12 buttons on the side which are perfect for counter strike GO, its wireless/wired so thats awesome. fast polling rate, adjustable sensitivity, different palm grips you can switch (magnetized), dont require any drivers for the 12 side-buttons (perfect for linux), and very comfortable grip. easy access to battery, color changing leds.


----------



## 343 Grenadier

zulkr9 said:


> Avior 7000 has the best sensor performance in the market along with zowie's implementation of the 3310 as both of these don't have the smoothing effect that the others have.


 
 Some people would disagree with you. They prefer such mice as the KPM or the newly-released Ninox Aurora to the Zowie FK1 and say they have still less smoothing. Granted, it's kinda subjective at this point since all of the mice are pretty raw with regards to input and any one of them would be a huge improvement over a laser. If you're okay with the funny shape of the Avior or the rather low CPI ratings and locked steppings on the FK1/FK2, then have at it.
  
 On a side note for everyone else: The Ninox Aurora is proving to be an exceptional mouse with regards to ergonomics and performance, but its small startup ancestry (Ninox is run by a single guy.) and Chinese OEM manufacturing is showing up in its build quality. Let's put it this way: It's lucky the mouse is so cheap. I wouldn't trust it to hold together for years. BST says he's trying to move away from Chinese OEMs because he finds the selection of preexisting mouse shells to be too restrictive, and no doubt he's also annoyed by their relative build quality. I'm sure he'll eventually come out with something which has the almost peerless sensor/firmware performance of the Aurora minus the QC issues before too long, but until then, we basically have ourselves an extended beta for a mouse.


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## Rahat1

I am using Logitech Marathon M705. I am really satisfied by it performance.


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## Tostitostelli

Using a *TT eSports Black Element White Edition.*
 Really light mouse(weight). Also has some pretty nice DPI(800,1600,3200 and 6500), selectable on the top of the mouse. Mouseclicks are insanely light, which is awesome for me.
 Lights up real nice (red, violet, blue, green and purple/pinkish), depending on which programmable profile you use.
 Upgraded from a Razer Abyssus by the way, which was already pretty nice.


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## Torian

naos 7000, optical A3310, high build quality, pleasent soft surface, true ergonomic- fits like a glove.


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## Tostitostelli

Question slightly off topic: what is your guys favorite mousepad? And why?


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## Netforce

I use a hard surface mousepad I got with Sc2 Heart of the Swarm. Been thinking about another mousepad lately but I've been running 6500 dpi and really moving much on my mousepad. Other hard surface mousepads look too big or kinda a bit expensive. Might try the Hyperx skyn as it is pretty cheap.


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## Torian

I'll always stick to softer pads for the simple reason that the mouse feets don't wear out as fast as on hard surface pads.
 This being said, i had the qck+ , goliathus speed re-fragged, goliathus contral and speed 2013, roccat taito, asus gm50.
 currently using the taito as it fitted low sense gaming better than the others in my oppinion, the bad part is that the logo in the low right corner is extremly annoying and the edges are fringing out very fast on these, also it feels like its being worn out faster than my goliathus speed re-fragged and qck+ i had before. Cannot recommend the 2013 version of both goliathus at all, they disappointed me right from the beginning- the older version are so much smoother, just get these if you consider buying a goliathus. 
 The asus gm50 felt nice, but it wasn't fitting into my lowsense gameplay and i wasnt satisfied with its shape so i gave em away.


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## Show

Previous mouse - Steel Series Sensei Pro
Current mouse - Steel Series Sensei Wireless

Obviously, I like the shape, otherwise, regardless of performance, I wouldn't pick it twice.
Performance wise, I cannot distinguish between the Sensei Pro and the wireless in terms of lag. Someone did a test - averaging the response time and found that is is 20ms slower. Fair enough if you are a pro competitive FPSer, but for the average gamer, the lack of cord torsion is a big plus.


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## Zulkr9

This is head fi why arent people going to the depths of sensor fidelity and performance that being said zowie fk1 is a beast


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## mikey1964

I have three rigs, so three mice to use.....a Logitech G502, Logitech G402 and a Roccat Kone XTD......love 'em all! I do have some spare mice kept in reserve, a Thermaltake Level 10M mouse, a G700s, and one cheap no name mouse that, for the life of me, I can't recall.


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## drez

I have too many mice. Need to start selling the ones I don't use. Probably sell g502, naos 7k, asus rog gladius. All good mice but significantly flawed in some way for me. G502 too heavy, naos fatigues my forearm and gladius designed the mouse feet wrong (can't believe they did this).

I like my Kone xtd. Might try kpm one day. Big mouse but light and quality construction.


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## Torian

drez said:


> I have too many mice. Need to start selling the ones I don't use. Probably sell g502, naos 7k, asus rog gladius. All good mice but significantly flawed in some way for me. G502 too heavy, naos fatigues my forearm and gladius designed the mouse feet wrong (can't believe they did this).
> 
> I like my Kone xtd. Might try kpm one day. Big mouse but light and quality construction.


 
  
 Can u tell more about them gladius feet?


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## drez

torian said:


> Can u tell more about them gladius feet?


 
  
 I really like the Gladius size and shape, just the feet at the front are too far apart and create too much friction against the mousepad (I think frame is making contact with mousepad rather than feet).  Should be closer together like almost every other mouse on the market.  
  
 The mouse is also quite light and has a good sensor.  Before there was a few driver hiccups but hopefully those are sorted.


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## Torian

Yeah i really like the looks of it aswell, a mix of deathadder ander intelli 3.0 just seems perfect, but now i have come to some complaints about it, malfunctioning on higher hz and other stuff like somehow slower click latency compared to other mices where i start losing interest in this mouse, i'll investigate that and the mousefeet issue you wrote about deeper soon.


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## InebriatedGnome

What are you all using these days? My beloved R.A.T. 7 is falling apart, and I'm eyeing the Steelseries Sensei. A move in the other direction, after using what is probably the most adjustable (and fiddly!) mouse out there.


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## drez

To be honest adjustable=heavy=slow. Sensei raw can be a pretty good mouse just the ambi thumb buttons annoy me. Right now I have settled on ss rival bit have yet to try deathadder or kone pure my military. I liked my naos 7k but found the shape fatigueing. Also tried the logitech g502 but enormous weight kills it. Zowie worth considering too.


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## Amish

I use a Logitech G600 but I own a bunch of gaming mice. Microsoft X8, Logitech G9, Logitech MX518, and a number of other ones near new in their boxes in the garage. I'm a Newegg reviewer and get loads of PC stuff to review and keep. I literally have a huge collection of all sorts of ****.


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## 343 Grenadier

For those toothless elders with subscriptions to this thread who are still waiting to cross the River Styx and are thus able to revisit this thread, the new G303 Daedalus Apex uses the same PWM3366 sensor the G502 Proteus Core does, but in a mouse which, without the cable, is about 87 grams. It may be a suitable choice as it has next to no tracking problems.


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## drez

Ooooh should be excellent don't forget the click latency as well. If the shape is good it should be just about perfect


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## illitirit

Ive been using a razer deathadder chroma for 3 months and I absolutely love it.


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## Torian

drez said:


> Ooooh should be excellent don't forget the click latency as well. If the shape is good it should be just about perfect


 
 Click latency, what can be said about it?


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## drez

torian said:


> Click latency, what can be said about it?


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## Torian

This absolutely explained nothing


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## Lagosaurus

Had a Roccat Kone XTD for about a year before the mouse wheel broke. Great mouse if you aren't looking for an absurd amount of programmable buttons.


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## the wizard of oz

My Thanko _Silent Mouse EX_ finally gave up the ghost after over half a dozen years of duty, so I went looking for current silent mouse offerings, and am currently trying the *Buffallo* _*Premium Fit*_; while apparently better built, it's not quite as silent, but will do until I find a better option.





 Logitech's silent mouse offering would interest me, if only they'd included a wired version...
 I'm open to suggestions if anyone is like me after reducing the noise of computers & computer peripherals.


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## leonnoelimagery

I didn't notice this thread till it popped up. I have really weird and complicated requirements for computer mice; a south (petite) paw that prefers to palm grip and it must be wireless and accurate. I'm a photographer by trade and absolutely don't care for video games.
  
 Earlier this year, I took the plunge and bought the Logitech G900, which was the most I've spent on a mouse but I found that it was worth every penny as it ticks off all of the check-boxes. I highly recommend it to anyone who has the same mouse-ing requirements that I have.


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## movax

I used to have Logitech MX500/518, and G5, but now I've gone to the G700s at both home and work. Being able to go wireless if needed is really nice, and it's in general a very, very nice mouse. Would recommend, especially if you have the need for a mouse you can use wired and wireless (i.e. if you have a laptop hooked up to a docking station, the mouse can be used both over USB to the dock, and via the wireless receiver directly plugging into laptop).


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## AxelCloris

I have a Logitech G900 (PC) and G502 (MBP) at home, a G602 at my office desk and another G502 at the second work computer. I think it's pretty safe to say I love Logitech's gaming series mice.
  
 I was very surprised when I got the G900. I didn't expect to like it as much as I do. I typically prefer a more contoured layout like the G502 since I have a palm grip, but the moderately sloped universal layout of the G900 just seems to work well for me. It's lighter than my G502 and that lead to better gaming performance. On top of that it's the first wireless mouse I've used that's able to keep up with me while gaming, meaning that the G900 was not going back. Wireless freedom, finally!


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## kazsud

For the past 2 years I've used the Corsair RGB Sabre at home and at work.

Before that it was the Thermatke BMW mouse.


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## Ver JJ

Using Razer Orochi and Razer Naga 2014....I want to sell both of them for earphones....


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## kobeclix

I've used the logitech G15 and Razer Orochi in the past. Now, i currently use a Corsair M65 Pro RGB to go with my Strafe RGB keyboard. They light up all pretty in the Iron Man theme.


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## drez

I recently got g403 and G pro Logitech mice.  Sensors are great on both and weight is very light = good.  G403 shape I prefer I find less fatiguing on the hand.  Shape is close to perfect on G403.  Cable on either is good stock but I prefer to debraid.


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## thasneakershop

drez said:


> I recently got g403 and G pro Logitech mice.  Sensors are great on both and weight is very light = good.  G403 shape I prefer I find less fatiguing on the hand.  Shape is close to perfect on G403.  Cable on either is good stock but I prefer to debraid.


I've used both the g403 and the g502 I like the g502 better


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## drez

I have/had G502 as well (used to practice soldering).  For me I didn't like the shape (too narrow for my hand) and found it front-heavy due to the metal scroll wheel, also generally a bit on the heavy side for its size.  Good sensor though - same as G403, G302 and G Pro.  G302 had weirdest shape and kind of unstable in the hand and due to narrow base.


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## Duncan

I gave up on my G502, took it to work (fantastic for flying through spreadsheets / long documents), I love the free wheeling scroll wheel), and swapped it for a Corsair M65 RGB (to match up with the Strafe RGB Silent keyboard...

Annoying as it is, I prefer the Logitech - Does anyone else make a mouse with a scroll wheel as free running as the G502?


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## AxelCloris

I adore my G900, so this announcement has me intrigued.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/12/15780536/logitech-powerplay-wireless-charging-gaming-mouse-pad


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## drez

Duncan said:


> I gave up on my G502, took it to work (fantastic for flying through spreadsheets / long documents), I love the free wheeling scroll wheel), and swapped it for a Corsair M65 RGB (to match up with the Strafe RGB Silent keyboard...
> 
> Annoying as it is, I prefer the Logitech - Does anyone else make a mouse with a scroll wheel as free running as the G502?



I don't know of any other company that has similar scroll wheel.  At this point I think its just the G502 from Logitech.

I think I used to like the scroll on the G9X also but nowadays I'm more worried about reptitive strain as I need to do a lot of precise mousing for my work.  I can see how it would be great for zipping up and down spreadsheets.


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## Odor trader

Are non MMO mouses really better/in competition with ones that are not?


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## DamageInc77

Odor trader said:


> Are non MMO mouses really better/in competition with ones that are not?


Depends on the type of competition. For playing competitive Counter-Strike, you don't want all those buttons and what you really want is a good optical sensor. A huge amount of pro CS players use Zowie EC2-A, EC1-A, FK1, or FK2 mice. I have both the EC2-A and the FK2 and the sensor is the best I've ever used. But other than that, it's a no-nonsense mouse. No programmable macro buttons. Just high quality sensor and good left and right click switches.

If playing DOTA or LoL you might want macros.


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