# The Sub-$100 Portable Amps Shootout – 11(+1) amps compared



## ClieOS

As an IEM user and avid gadget lover, I am always have a particularly interest in portable amps. The sub-$100 price range is where I started my amp journey and I am sure it is the same for many others as well. Though I have moved onward to better portable amps at higher price range, I have always had a keen interest in the budget amp development. Over the year I have built up a collection of some of the most popular sub-$100 portable amps (some are review samples given to me and others are out of my own money) so I thought it is a good time to do a shootout between them from the point of view as an IEM user. *Note*: This comparison is only a subjective evaluation and nothing more than my own personal opinion.
   
*Evaluation Method*
  Sources: Sansa Fuze via custom LOD (around 0.5Vrms)
  IEM used for evaluation: HifiMan RE0, Etymotic ER4S and Shure SE530.
  Amps are all in their lowest gain setting. Volume matched using a SPL meter to ≤1dB via white noise and double checked with a multimeter. They are also RMAA tested (loop-out / loop-in though Tone Well UT24 audio interface with a 16ohm load) but only result of significant will be discussed. Output impedance and power are measured using fixed loads and 1kHz tone. The reference amps used for the elevation are Meier Audio StepDance and NwAvGuys’ O2 (built by JDS Labs), both excellent amps of their own.
   
*Criteria*
*[Build Quality]*
  Build quality covers not only housing, but also material, design, size, etc – plastic is not necessary rated worst than metal. Functionality is the key here.
   
*[Power]*
  Current are measured (volume matched driving fixed 47 ohm and 23.5 ohm load, 1kHz pure tone) to multiple with voltage for power.  Most amp have more than enough power for typical IEM, the important point is having enough voltage for high impedance IEM (>100 ohm) and enough current for low impedance IEM (<16 ohm). However, only two typical numbers are covered here.
   
*[Output Impedance]*
  Calculated from the voltage difference between no-load and a 47 ohm fixed load with a 1kHz pure tone. Less than 1 ohm is best for most IEM as it has the best dampening and doesn’t affect the FR curve of the IEM.
   
*[Portability]*
  Size and weight comparison. Ratings are given as relative. From Biggest (1/5) to smallest (5/5)
   
*[Speed]*
  Related to transient. Mainly about the sense of attack - especially noticeable on bass note.
   
*[Transparency]*
  Not related to coloration, transparency is used as the sum of the openness and layering of the amp, which are what essential to produce the depth of the sound field
   
*[Soundstage]*
  If transparency is the depth, then soundstage is used as the sum of width and separations. Together, they define the overall resolution of the amp.
   
*[Coloration / Neutrality]*
  This can be either pure measurement (FR curve) or perceived difference in presentation. O2 will be the main reference here.
   
*[EMI]*
  Tested using a cellphone receiving call in very close proximity.
   
*[Hissing]*
  How well the amp behaves with hiss prone IEM, mainly SE530.
   
*[Remark]*
  Odds and ends that are not covered on above.
   
*Rating*
  Out of a full mark of 5 points
  ● = 1 point
  ◎ = ½ point
  ○ = Zero point
i.e. ●●●◎○ = 3½ points
    

   





   
  While I do own a few more sub$100 amps, I think those that are included here are some of the most popular among new buyers and thus make the best sense to be reviewed.
   
*Content*
  (In alphabetical order)
   

 C&C BH (BH2, $100)
 digiZoid ZO2.3 ($99.95 $119.95, *note 2)
 Electric Avenues PA2V2 ($60)
 FiiO E02i ($30)
 FiiO E07K ($89)
 FiiO E6 ($30)
 FiiO E7 ($85)
 FiiO E11 ($65)
 Fred_fred_2004's 3 Channels Headphone Amp ($92)
 HeadRoom Total AirHead ($99, *note 1)
 JDS Labs cmoyBB v2.02 ($60)
 SoundMAGIC A10 ($60)
    
  *Note 1: I don’t have the Total AirHead, but instead the Total BitHead will step in for its place since the two share essential the same amp section and sound identical when run purely as an amp.

   
  *Note 2: digiZoid has increased the price of ZO2 to $119.95 which means it is no longer a sub$100 amp)


----------



## ClieOS

*C&C BH (BH2)*
  Build Quality: ●●●●○ (Not the best looking but solid overall) 
  Power: ●●●●○ (Great in measurement but lacking in actual performance, see remark)
  Output Impedance:  ●●●●● (0.1Ω + 100Ω, dual outputs)
  Portability: ●●●●◎ (Ultra-portable)
  Speed: ●●●●○ (just tiny bit slow, power related see remark)
  Transparency: ●●●●○ (Decent depth, but undifined layering)
  Soundstage: ●●●●● (Great width and seperation)
  Coloration / Neutrality: ●●●●◎ (Almost neutral)
  EMI: ●●●◎○ (Susceptible)
  Hissing: ●●●●● (Silence)
  Remark: The BH under review here is a BH2 - the two share the same topology on amp section but different in battery. The original BH uses a 1100mAH soldered on Li-ion while the BH2 uses a removable 900mAH cellphone battery. The official description says that the new battery brings 'better stability and improved standby time'. There is no mentioning of SQ improvement and judging from the new power section, it should not affect the SQ by much, if any.
   
  A few interesting features on the BH: First, dual outputs. One of them is a normal output with low impedance while the other is the P-to-B output that is supposed to turn a Etymotic ER4P to a ER4B. This is different from the more typical P-to-S impedance adapter we usually see. To truly ultilize the P-to-B function, you will need to use an after-market cable with no resistor pod in the cable, otherwise you will be getting a pseudo ER4B. Second, BH comes with both a SF and LF switch. SF stands for 'sound field', which is basically like a 3D effect. While it has its usefulness, it is a little overtuned. Sometime it sound good, but most of the time it is a bit too artificial. LF stands for 'low frequency' boost. It is however not just a bass boost, as it boosts treble too. So it is really more of a V-shaped boost. Depends on what you like, this can be either benefiical or a turn-off. Lastly, gain settings are about +5.4dB for low and +18.8dB for high.
   
  There are a few things on the BH that are outstanding. Fisrt, it measured really well. Flat FR curve, low output impedance, low noise and good output power to dummy load. Second, it has a great soundstage. Truly one of the best among sub$100 amp even though layer can be a little blurry at time. Thrid, good clarity and lastly, long run time. So is there anything to dislike about the BH? Unfortunately, there is one. The amp, while looking good on spec and measurement, doesn't sound like it is quite as powerful and tight as it claims to be. In fact, it is slightly underpowered in sound. The first subtle thing I noticed is the softer bass hit and attack that is a little distanced and blurry at time. This causes slight lost in texture and detail from bass up to lower vocal. This is rather subtle and proabbly not something very obvious at first, but you can connect the amp to a decent external USB 5V supply (USB battery pack or 1A USB adapter) and slowly the missing bass attack and texture will appear in the presentaion. Once disconnected, they will slowly faint into the background again. It is a sign that the amp is underpowered, and could be better if there is a better power section.
   
  The slight lost of attack and texture do give BH a more mellowed, musical sound. However, it is still technically a downside as you are hearing less of what should have been there. Despite that, BH is still overall a really good sounding amp, and overall an excellent value for all the features it has.
   
   




*digiZoid ZO2.3 *
  Build Quality: ●●●●● (Beautifully finished, even with a full plastic housing) 
  Power: ●●●●● (Decently powerful)
  Output Impedance:  ●●●●○ (2Ω)
  Portability: ●●●●◎ (Ultra-portable)
  Speed: ●●●●○ (Decent)
  Transparency: ●●●◎○ (slightly forwarded)
  Soundstage: ●●●○○ (Not particularly wide)
  Coloration / Neutrality: ●●●◎○ (Never quite a flat line, but EQ is its game)
  EMI: ●●●◎○ (Easily susceptible)
  Hissing: ●●●○○ (Fairly noticeable)
  Remark: The bass boosting ZO2.3 isn’t near the best sounding amp in the comparison and yet it is one of the most expensive (top at $99.95 ***digiZoid has increased the price to $119.95, making ZO2.3 invalid for the sub$100 comparison). As purely an amp, ZO2.3 has a roll off bass (in Bass Level 0 setting) and doesn’t have quite the resolution compared to those that are cheaper in price. However, ZO2.3 brings something else to the table that will worth your while – the multi-level bass boost, and improved from the original ZO, the ability to take line-out signal. Though it might not be the best sounding or the most powerful amp around, it is great for adding bass to lean sounding IEM. At least for me, I tend to see it as an EQ first and an amp second. It is small so it won’t take much space, and the overall finish is pretty good. The output impedance is a bit high, but any IEM over 16 ohm shouldn’t be a problem at all. However, I won’t use it with IEM of very low impedance (or really high sensitivity) as hissing can become more noticeable.
   
   




*Electric Avenues PA2V2*
  Build Quality: ●●●◎○ (Simple design with some shortcomings)
  Power: ●●●●● (Plenty for most)
  Output Impedance: ●●●●● (0.45 Ω)
  Portability: ●●●○○ (Almost a full size)
  Speed: ●●◎○○ (noticeably slow with a weak bass impact, likely side effect from the big input and output caps)
  Transparency: ●●●●○ (Decently deep, but not quite as defined in layer)
  Soundstage: ●●●●◎ (Quite wide)
  Coloration / Neutrality: ●●●◎○ (Laid back and slightly lush in presentation)
  EMI: ●◎○○○ (Fairly bad)
  Hissing: ●●●●● (Little to no hiss)
  Remark: I have a mix feeling about PA2V2. It is noticeably slow (might have something to do with the bit input/output caps) but has fairly good transparency and soundstage – all works well to create a laid back, musical and lush sound. It is colored, but in ear pleasing way. It explains why PA2V2, though quite an old design, is still fairly popular among new amp buyer. My issue with PA2V2 is however less on the sound but more on the tech.
   
  PA2V2 is based on the Boomer series of audio amp chip from National Semiconductor. Another chip from the same family is also used on the2nd generation of Boostaroo (which I own) and that explains why the overall sound signature is so close. The first thing I noticed is that PA2V2 can’t take normal AA batteries (which cause distortion) but instead only works with AA NiMH rechargeable. This is strange as Boostaroo will take normal AA just fine while PA2V2 can’t . The 2nd thing I noticed is the lack of proper recharging circuit when rechargeable must be used. The only thing between the AA rechargeable and external DC supply is a 47 ohm resistor – that means unplugging the DC adapter is a must or else there is a risk on overcharging the batteries. The 3rd thing I noticed is the volume control, which if I am not mistaken, is more like a gain control. By setting the ratio between the two internal variable resistor switches and the volume pot, the overall gain can be controlled (and so as the output volume). The few problems are, 1) the two variable resistors are not always matched, even in their lowest position. I have to match them myself to balance the left and right channels using RMAA and Stepdance as reference. 2) Rising the variable resistor not only increase gain, but also decrease the usable area of the volume pot (causing pot to max out on gain even when it hasn’t reached its highest position). 3) Rising gain seems to worsen the performance of the chip. The Boomer chip is best used with low gain and high input.  Lastly, it doesn’t seem like the amp is as powerful as what it is claimed to be. While the chip is capable of 200mW output, it is limited to certain condition (5V supply into 8 ohm load as written on datasheet). Given two AA NiMH rechargeable is only 2.4V (which is lower than the recommended 2.7V minimum of the chip), I double it can output 200mW regularly. These are just the majority of shortcomings on PA2V2, but they are not something obvious to the average user. It is just showing that PA2V2 is a fairly outdated design with issue of its own.  While it all depends on whether you can live with these issues or not - for roughly the same price, cmoyBB or E11 make better sense to me.
   
   




*FiiO E02i*
  Build Quality: ●●●●● (Full aluminum construction )
  Power: ●●●◎○ (Good power in low impedance load but fixed +4dB gain might not be enough for high impedance or low sensitivity load)
  Output Impedance: ●●●●● (0.08 Ω)
  Portability: ●●●●● (Tiny)
  Speed: ●●●●○ (Decent)
  Transparency: ●●●○○ (Lack openness in depth)
  Soundstage: ●●●○○ (Lack a sense of good width)
  Coloration / Neutrality: ●●●◎○ (Similar to E6, but has a little more warmth in the background)
  EMI: ●●●●● (As designed for iPhone, no EMI issue at all)
  Hissing: ●●●◎○ (Fixed gain makes hiss easiler to notice, but otherwise the level is similar to E6 )
  Remark: E02i can be summerised as 'E6 with remote+mic for iPhone'. The overall SQ is compatible except E02i carries a slightly more sense of warmth. It doesn't have a volume control of its own but has to use the volume button to control the output of iPhone (or compatible Apple's products), which means it is basically double amping. The good news is that E02i is transparent enough that it doesn't color the sound much. Bass boost function is simialr to EQ2 on E6 as well. The amp can be bypassed when turn-off and acts solely like a remote and mic.
   
   




*FiiO E07K*
  Build Quality: ●●●●● (Solid chuck of metal, same size as E7)
  Power: ●●●●● (Plenty for most)
  Output Impedance: ●●●●● (0.09 Ω)
  Portability: ●●◎○○ (Full size)
  Speed: ●●●◎○ (Slightly slow)
  Transparency: ●●●●○ (Decent depth but obscured by warmish tone)
  Soundstage: ●●◎○○ (Narrow in width)
  Coloration / Neutrality: ●●●●○ (Warmish tone)
  EMI: ●●●●● (Silence)
  Hissing: ●●●●● (Very very minor, only detectable in high volume)
  Remark: Intented as upgrade over E7, the new E07K has an USB DAC section that is very close, if not identical to E17. The new EQ system also operates lke E17, with bass, treble as well as channel balanced control. Other new features includes line-out bypass and hold key. The amp section has been improved as well, with much more power and gain than E7. However, the newly added warmish tone, though giving some of the missing lower end texture back to E7, is also obscuring the background transparency. So while it is a fairly noticeable improvement over E7, it is still an entry level sounding amp in its core. The real value of E07K is in its all-in-one design, which offers much more features than any of its competitors.
   
   




*FiiO E6*
  Build Quality: ●●●●◎ (A bit toy like but it is well built for the price)
  Power: ●●●●○ (Decently powerful)
  Output Impedance: ●●●●● (0.15 Ω)
  Portability: ●●●●● (Tiny)
  Speed: ●●●●○ (Decent)
  Transparency: ●●●◎○ (Lack openness in depth)
  Soundstage: ●●●○○ (Lack a sense of good width)
  Coloration / Neutrality: ●●●◎○ (Neutral to in presentation, but warm in the sense that space is noticeably clustered)
  EMI: ●●●●○ (Slightly susceptible, annoying but acceptable)
  Hissing: ●●●●○ (Hiss in high volume)
  Remark: For only half the price over the next more expensive amp in the whole comparison, E6 is quite a performer. While resolution (transparency + soundstage) is its weakness, the overall sound and the bass boost EQ are upgrade over its predecessor, the E5. It even compared slightly better to E7, which offer slightly better transparency but has a rather cold presentation. The E6 is more balanced and richer in tone in that regard. It is not the be-all-end-all of tiny amp, but it is useful if your source isn’t particularly capable or you are on a very tight budget.
   
   




*FiiO E7 (discontinued)*
  Build Quality: ●●●●● (Solid chuck of metal)
  Power: ●●●●◎ (Good as long as high voltage isn’t required)
  Output Impedance: ●●●●● (0.2 Ω)
  Portability: ●●◎○○ (Full size)
  Speed: ●●●●○ (Decent)
  Transparency: ●●●●◎ (Rather good in rendering depth)
  Soundstage: ●●◎○○ (Narrow in width)
  Coloration / Neutrality: ●●●●◎ (Very clean, but somewhat cold and lean)
  EMI: ●●●●● (Little to no interference)
  Hissing: ●●●●○ (Hiss in high volume)
  Remark: E7 is originally designed in the short period of the netbook era a few years ago as an audio solution for those that are limited in their PC’s hardware while still want a decent sound with portability. As far as that goal is concerned, I think E7 has more than done its job. But as a replacement for full size PC and laptop that often packed much better hardware than netbook, the E7 can come short sometime, especially on its amp section. It is clean sounding, but perhaps a bit too clean for its own good as most people actually prefer a dirtier, richer tone for their music and rather consider coloration as an improvement. But given it has a fairly good USB DAC and works as a pure amp for under $100, it is still a good bang for the buck for those with tight budget – just don’t expect it to be a miracle.
   
   




*FiiO E11*
  Build Quality: ●●●●◎ (Unique design with a plus of replaceable battery)
  Power: ●●●●● (Plenty for most)
  Output Impedance: ●●●●● (0.15 Ω)
  Portability: ●●●◎○ (Smaller than most full size)
  Speed: ●●●●● (Good in attack)
  Transparency: ●●●●◎ (Good in rendering depth and layer)
  Soundstage: ●●●●○ (Decent)
  Coloration / Neutrality: ●●●●◎ (Mostly neutral with slightly more bass body)
  EMI: ●●●●○（Slightly susceptible, annoying but acceptable）
  Hissing: ●●●◎○ (Slightly hissy)
  Remark: Taking the once popular AMB’s mini^3 three channels concept, FiiO has managed to tweak the idea around and adapted it on the E11. Consider that mini^3 is never quite a sub-$100 amp (kit alone costs >$90 and a fully assembled amp usually goes for $150 or so), the E11 is quite a bargain for $65 or so. Though it uses mostly plastic as its housing, the overall industrial design of the amp just looks better than its competition. The addition of a user replaceable Li-ion battery is also the first for the sub-$100 category. However, it does have a downside of not usable when recharging due to the virtual ground of the three channels design. Another one issue is on its bass performance – with a slight phase shift in the sub-bass region, E11 has usually perceived to have a richer bass body. Though the FR curve is still linear / flat, the extra bass body often gives people the impression of E11 being dark sound. But A/Bing it against the reference O2 (which is neither particularly bright nor dark), the difference is much small than one might thought. It is never quite the best pairing with bass heavy IEM, but overall E11 still has the best control and easily sounds the most technical proficient in the sub-$100 bucket with a good balance of everything. It is also one of the most powerful in the comparison, especially for the higher impedance headphone. For really sensitive IEM however, it might come as a bit too powerful.
   
   




*Fred_fred_2004’s 3 Channels Headphone Amp*
  Build Quality: ●●●●◎ (Well build for something handmade)
  Power: ●●●●● (Plenty for most)
  Output Impedance: ●●●●● (0.1 Ω)
  Portability: ●●○○○ (Full size)
  Speed: ●●●●◎ (Good, just slightly soft)
  Transparency: ●●●●◎ (Just as good E11 on layer but a tiny bit shorter on depth)
  Soundstage: ●●●●◎ (Very good)
  Coloration / Neutrality: ●●●●● (Very neutral, just tiny bit mellow on treble)
  EMI: ●●○○○ (Not good)
  Hissing: ●●●●◎ (Very little hiss)
  Remark: Developed and built by Howard Lee (fred_fred2004), this amp shares similar topology as the cmoy2 – which is an A47 design (or ‘buffered cmoy’ design) with an added buffer ground. The original idea of A47 amp is to use a dual channel opamp in one channel (so two dual opamp for both channels), where one of the opamp in the chip is used for gain stage when the other is used for buffering. This is originally done to double the overall output current of a cmoy. The cmoy2 / 3 Channels design further increases the power output by adding a buffered ground.
   
  Despite not measuring nearly as well in RMAA as E11 or cmoyBB, this amp is by far the best sounding amp in this review. It is clean sounding, good in resolution and overall very neutral. In fact, it sounds closest to the O2, which is the reference amp of this whole shootout. Objectively, this isn’t the top amp to get by looking at its measurement; but subjective, I am very inclined to place it on top of this shootout, just a hair ahead of E11. You just have to make out your mind on whether you want to go with measurement or opinion.
   
*[UPDATE July 11st, 2013]* After all this time, I finally realize what I have done wrongly in the original RMAA measurement with the 3CHA and why the measurement contridite my subjective listening. In listening, volume is limited to my normal setting. But during measurement, the volume usually has to be pushed much higher. Given the opamp in this amp is not rail-to-rail and thus the voltage swing is limited by the 9V battery supply, I was actually clipping the amp during the original RMAA measurement and therefore the result didn't look particularly great. Yet it was not a problem during listening since it was in much lower volume and didn't clip the amp. I have since redone the measurement by doubing the supply voltage (dual 9V battery in serial / 18V to 3CHA) and the new result confirms that the amp does measure as good as it sounds. For those who own a 3CHA, or plan to get one, I strongly recommend using it with 18V to get the best out of it.
   




*HeadRoom Total AirHead*
  Build Quality: ●●●●● (Like a tank)
  Power: ●●●○○ (Weakest, worsen as load impedance goes down)
  Output Impedance: ●●○○○ (9.6 5.4 Ω) _*See update below_
  Portability: ●○○○○ (Larger than typical full size)
  Speed: ●●●●◎ (Good speed, though impact is slightly weak)
  Transparency: ●●●●○ (Decently deep)
  Soundstage: ●●●●◎ (Fairly good)
  Coloration / Neutrality: ●●●◎○ (Rolling off at the bass’ end with a 16ohm load is not a good thing)
  EMI: ●○○○○ (Really bad)
  Hissing: ●●◎○○ (Rather bad)
  Remark: Like PA2V2, the Total AirHead (TA) is an old design. For whatever reason, HeadRoom doesn’t seem to want to update the design for the new generation of IEM that are much more efficient and probably trickier to drive. The good news first – 1) TA is the only amp in the comparison with a crossfeed circuit. I have had other portable amps with crossfeed before and the implementation on TA is by far the best in creating a very relaxing, natural, binaural-like listening effect. 2) The TA, as well as the Total BitHead (which is what steps in for TA here), is built like a tank. It might be a full plastic + rubber construction, the design is very much foolproof.  The use of 4 AA batteries also means this amp will last almost forever as opposed to the Li-ion battery used on other amps. But it does come with the price of overall portability. 3) Transparency and soundstage are quite good, despite the other problems I’ll mention below.
   
  Now comes the bad news – 1) the high output impedance means any headphone under 80 40 ohm (following the 8x rule) will not be ideal for the amp. In fact, most of the sensitive multi-driver IEM with crossover circuit will probably sound quite colored. 2) Result of rolloff under 100dB (to -3dB @ 20Hz) with a 16 ohm test load is an indication of too small an output caps. It is not as bad as ZO2.3 in flat EQ mode, but at least ZO2.3 has bass boost to bring back (and excel) the bass. 3) Under RMAA testing, TA’s performance worsens with lower impedance load. While it still has more than enough power, it seems to indicate that the amp is having trouble keeping the same performance when impedance is too low. All and all, the result of the tests is pointing toward the conclusion that TA is just not an IEM friendly amp. This won’t be surprising if we consider that there aren’t quite as many IEM users around when the TA was designed. Like PA2V2, it is an outdated design for the current market and is costing too much to be considered a good buy.
   
  [*UPDATE*] Due to the use with a new, more precise multimeter and new measuring procedure, the output impedance of TA is lowered from the originatally calculated 9.6 ohm to the more accurate 5.4 ohm. Though it is a good thing to know TA has lower output impedance, it is still quite high and doesn't dampen most sensitive IEM well enough as they are often in the 20-ish ohm range - thus the remark still stands.
   




*JDS Labs cmoyBB v2.02*
  Build Quality: ●●●●◎ (Well build but no thrill)
  Power: ●●●●● (Plenty for most)
  Output Impedance: ●●●●● (0.51 Ω)
  Portability: ●●○○○ (Full size)
  Speed: ●●●●◎ (Good in speed, slightly softer in attack)
  Transparency: ●●●◎○ (A bit lacking in depth and layer)
  Soundstage: ●●●●● (Good rendering in width)
  Coloration / Neutrality: ●●●●○ (A bit on the lush side)
  EMI: ●●●●○ (Slightly susceptible, annoying but acceptable)
  Hissing: ●●●●◎ (Very little)
  Remark: Besides PA2V2, cmoyBB is the most DIY’ish among all the amps in comparison. However, it is also one of the best sounding cmoy I have ever heard. The PCB and soldering are both top notch for something hand built. The latest v2.03 even comes with option for higher current supply (for IEM with really low impedance) and smart recharging circuit. Adding to the fact that it is the only amp in the comparison that allows you to roll the opamp, it is definitely one of the most ‘playable’ amps in the sub-$100 price bucket. Overall the cmoyBB has good soundstage but comes relatively short in transparency. This gives it a lush and forwarded presentation that is fun, but not quite a neutral as it can be. This makes cmoyBB a good contrast to the warmer sounding E11 where its transparency is better than soundstage. Though it might not be quite as refined as E11, the presentation makes it a good choice for those who prefer a slightly colored, lusher sounding amp but still demand good technical performance. The ability to roll in a better sounding opamp (AD8066, or AD8620 with dual 9V batteries) also means cmoyBB is upgradeable. But this comes with extra cost as some opamp are not cheap. If I remember correctly, cmoyBB used to cost around $80. With the current $60 price tag, it is a good alternative to the E11 for those are willing to spend a bit more to ‘play around’.
   
   




*SoundMAGIC A10*
  Build Quality: ●●●●○ (Volume knob can really be placed in a better place)
  Power: ●●●◎○ (Still enough, but noticeably weaker)
  Output Impedance: ●●●●● (0.17 Ω)
  Portability: ●●●●○ (Ultra-portable but on the larger size)
  Speed: ●●●◎○ (Decent, but a bit rounded in the edge)
  Transparency: ●●●●○ (Decent, but lack the open-end feeling)
  Soundstage: ●●●◎○ (Decent, but with an added room-filling richness)
  Coloration / Neutrality: ●●◎○○ (Rather colored, warm and lush)
  EMI: ●●●●○ (slightly susceptible, annoying but acceptable)
  Hissing: ●●●●● (Little to no hiss)
  Remark: When A10 first launch, there is no E11 yet and cmoyBB is higher in price. This makes A10 a relatively good amp to buy back then, given it is better sounding than the iBasso T4 (which costs much more than A10). The one thing unique about A10 is its coloration. It is a slightly elevated bass and treble and a warm and thick sound. Smooth and musical are what A10 is going for, not reference and neutral. However, that also means A10 tends to be better sounding with colder sounding IEM as its warmness in tone might be too much for already warm sounding IEM. That is actually an opposite for E7, which pairs better with warm and rich sounding IEM. Perhaps the biggest downfall for A10 is the position of its volume knob that makes its prone to accidental volume change. Overall, A10 is suitable for those who are looking for a warm and smooth sounding amp, a bit like how many RSA amps sound like – which is a rather unique trait for A10 as no other amp in this comparison has the same signature. It might not be technically as good as the E11 or cmoyBB that cost around the same price, but I have known people often opt for signature rather than performance.
   
   
   
   
*[Ranking]*

 Fred_fred_2004's 3 Channels Headphone Amp.
 FiiO E11
 JDS Labs cmoyBB v2.02 / *C&C BH (BH2)*
 Electric Avenues PA2V2 / FiiO E07K / digiZoid ZO2.3
 FiiO E6 / FiiO E02i
 FiiO E7 / SoundMAGIC A10
 HeadRoom Total AirHead
   
*[Afterthought]*
  Here are a few things that don’t seem to fit into the review, yet still important to mention.

 Volume match is essential for getting the right auditioning condition. Simply matched by ears is not good enough, as I have discovered in the course of the review. Once you matched the volume on all amps, you will be surprised that the difference between amps is much less than what you would have thought before matching. At least that’s what I have noticed.
 I can understand why so many like PA2V2, but it isn’t quite something I can really recommend due to all the technical issues I have found out on it. Same goes for Total AirHead, which is just not the right amp for IEM user.
 There is no perfect amp in the review, so you’ll need to pick the one that best fit what you are looking for. The ranking above is merely my opinion of how their SQ compared, but there are more to consider beyond just SQ. Practicality is the other key to determine what amp will work for you, and so is synergy.
 As far as sound quality being the _*only*_ concern, #1~3 can be considered as some of the best portable amp for under $100, but not perfect by any means. #4 and under shows much obvious technical / performance weaknesses.
   
  Oh, a self-congratulatory 10k post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!
   
*The Sub-$200 Amps Shootout can be found here.*


----------



## imackler

I'll second your congratulations then!
   
  Thanks for the awesome review!
   
  For its amp alone, would the E10 share the top spot with the E11. You mentioned in your comparison that they are similar though the E10 is "noticeably brighter and crispier than E11, but not quite as hard hitting on the bass." Would it be just a matter of preference but comparable in quality? Or would you put the E10 for amp alone below the other amps?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





imackler said:


> For its amp alone, would the E10 share the top spot with the E11. You mentioned in your comparison that they are similar though the E10 is "noticeably brighter and crispier than E11, but not quite as hard hitting on the bass." Would it be just a matter of preference but comparable in quality? Or would you put the E10 for amp alone below the other amps?


 
   
  Yes, If E10 is an amp, it will be there at the top spot with E11 or at least share the second podium with cmoyBB.


----------



## badmod

You, sir, are a head-fi star with 10,000 lux. Awesome work.
   
  Please consider expanding the list to sub $200 (fiio e17, O2, C42..)


----------



## H20Fidelity

Very interesting read and conrgats on 10,000 posts,


----------



## Bill-P

Great write-up!
   
  I was waiting for the Fiio E17 to get back in stock, but ultimately decided to go for a cheaper amp instead since I suspected that was all I needed. Then I read this, and plunged for the E11.
   
  And wow, it was everything you described. My Fiio E7 is really not comparable.
   
  Thanks a lot! You saved me nearly $100!


----------



## calipilot227

I blindly pulled the trigger on the E11, but it was definitely one of my best impulse-buys to date. Going against the grain, I use it with my IE8s, and I have been really pleased so far.


----------



## ClieOS

Thanks for the comments, guys!




badmod said:


> Please consider expanding the list to sub $200 (fiio e17, O2, C42..)




I already have a few $100~$200 portable amp - iBasso T3D, T5, D-Zero, E17, LEAR FSM-01, Total BitHead (which already is somewhat included in this review) and O2. Probably will get the C421 soon'ish and maybe the Leckerton UHA-4 as well. If all go well, there could be a sub-$200 shoot out by late March or early April.


----------



## imackler

Oh that would be stellar!
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> Thanks for the comments, guys!
> I already have a few $100~$200 portable amp - iBasso T3D, T5, D-Zero, E17, LEAR FSM-01, Total BitHead (which already is somewhat included in this review) and O2. Probably will get the C421 soon'ish and maybe the Leckerton UHA-4 as well. If all go well, there could be a sub-$200 shoot out by late March or early April.


----------



## bowei006

yes  can you include the E17 in the sub $200 shootout? i know you said as an amp by itself it's less than similar one's but an in depth review on the difference would be nice  btw..wish i had two E17's now haha  might just get an maverick tube magic d1


----------



## ClieOS

bowei006 said:


> yes  can you include the E17 in the sub $200 shootout? i know you said as an amp by itself it's less than similar one's but an in depth review on the difference would be nice  btw..wish i had two E17's now haha  might just get an maverick tube magic d1




Yes, it will be included.


----------



## Cassadian

Can't wait for the Sub-$200 shootout. It will really decide what I get haha.


----------



## casanova

First and foremost, Congratulation to ClieOS for the milestone 10k post.
  I've been in searching to find a portable amp for my pfe-012 ( do they need one?).
  It is just that when I crank up the volume, I hear the hissing/distortion from them.


----------



## ClieOS

casanova said:


> First and foremost, Congratulation to ClieOS for the milestone 10k post.
> I've been in searching to find a portable amp for my pfe-012 ( do they need one?).
> It is just that when I crank up the volume, I hear the hissing/distortion from them.




Generally speaking, PFE012 shouldn't need an amp unless you can't get enough volume out of your source. If you are hearing distortion, it is more likely the internal amp on the source is clipping. If that's the case, than an amp will help.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

What an EXCELLENT thread.
  Pictures, review, ratings - brilliant.
   
  Congratulations on your 10k posts bro!
  I really do enjoy reading your reviews
   
  I agree on the point of the E11 and A10.
  (although i found the A10 quite EMI susceptible)
  I'll get back to you regarding my ZO2 impressions too!
   
  What I'm wondering is how does the E6 compare with the E5
  I need to hit up that search bar.


----------



## casanova

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Generally speaking, PFE012 shouldn't need an amp unless you can't get enough volume out of your source. If you are hearing distortion, it is more likely the internal amp on the source is clipping. If that's the case, than an amp will help.


 

 Thank you again for the reply.
  I'll test the hearing with/without the Fiio E11, when i can borrow that amp from a friend of mine. ^_^


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote: 





casanova said:


> Thank you again for the reply.
> I'll test the hearing with/without the Fiio E11, when i can borrow that amp from a friend of mine. ^_^


 

 +1 on what he said, depending on how deaf you are though 
 I'm at the stage of deaf, so i use an amp as I need more volume lol
   
  +the PFE's (depending on taste) could do with extra bass - so an amp might be really beneficial.


----------



## bowei006

I feel even more better with my First batch buy of the E17 now  woot. :3


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I feel even more better with my First batch buy of the E17 now  woot. :3


 

 lol - sounds like fanboynism


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





totally dubbed said:


> lol - sounds like fanboynism


 


  Haters gonna hate  We Asians going hard on you. but hey. It may be fanboyism but....unless somebody can come along and shut FiiO up..call it what you want. I'll stick with FiiO  FiiO is for the poorer people in us that want full capabilities with no compromise at a......at TEH most competetive pricing on the audiophile market
   
  Totally dubbed..it's fun having you around man. dude i see you everywhere lolz  almost my congratualtory 3K


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Haters gonna hate  We Asians going hard on you. but hey. It may be fanboyism but....unless somebody can come along and shut FiiO up..call it what you want. I'll stick with FiiO  FiiO is for the poorer people in us that want full capabilities with no compromise at a......at TEH most competetive pricing on the audiophile market
> 
> Totally dubbed..it's fun having you around man. dude i see you everywhere lolz  almost my congratualtory 3K


 
  haha my man! 
   
  3K in what 1 day ? lol
   
  Yes FiiO are very good, i know that.
  They are just not for me, well not their higher end amps.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





totally dubbed said:


> haha my man!
> 
> 3K in what 1 day ? lol
> 
> ...


 
  hah yeah man 
   
  not in one day haha. end of month? :
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  the positives of the E17 are great. and higher end amps? the E17 is their only higher end amp past the mid range champion E11..and even then it isn't a super duper upgrade. CLIEOS and others don't call it a amp upgrade. but the people from the E17 thread like the EQ options and more power of the E17 and seem to prefer the E17 to E11 so ill just leave it at that :3
   
  anyway ill stop semi derailing the thread. it won't be good for newbies and on lookers to see us members doing such a thing


----------



## Bill-P

I just wanna add to the E11. After using the amp for roughly the whole day yesterday, I have barely noticed the warm sound caused by the slight bump to the sub bass region. If anything, it clears up the upper frequencies a lot better than my E7. Now I find the E7's amp sounding very muffled compared to E11.
   
  What I found funny was that out of the box, the E11 didn't sound like this. The first 10 hours was an eyebrow-raising experience for me. As I mentioned in another thread, the supplied stock cable made the amp sound very warm and muffled out of the box. In contrast, the cable that came with my Beats Solo sounded a lot more open and cleaner. After about 10 hours of usage, the warm and muffling effect of the stock cable magically vanished, and what was left for me was an extremely open and clean sounding signature.
   
  Also the power of this little amp is insane. I can barely go past level 3, almost to level 4. 4/8 of the E11 is like 50/60 of E7.
   
  Definitely a very good amp for the price point. Thanks for the review again, ClieOS!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bill-p said:


> I just wanna add to the E11. After using the amp for roughly the whole day yesterday, I have barely noticed the warm sound caused by the slight bump to the sub bass region. If anything, it clears up the upper frequencies a lot better than my E7. Now I find the E7's amp sounding very muffled compared to E11.
> 
> What I found funny was that out of the box, the E11 didn't sound like this. The first 10 hours was an eyebrow-raising experience for me. As I mentioned in another thread, the supplied stock cable made the amp sound very warm and muffled out of the box. In contrast, the cable that came with my Beats Solo sounded a lot more open and cleaner. After about 10 hours of usage, the warm and muffling effect of the stock cable magically vanished, and what was left for me was an extremely open and clean sounding signature.
> 
> ...


 


  Beats cable? i guess they do have some good qualities to it. i don't kno wht is inside it though..still can't say much abotu them...considering how often they split
   
  haha yeah my E17..wow.  it has more power than E11. my stuff isn't hard to drive but its good knowing i have leeway


----------



## Bill-P

Yep. Beats cable. To be honest, I didn't expect much from it. The only reason why I used it initially was so that the E11 wouldn't dangle in midair from my MacBook. But surprisingly, it sounded cleaner than the stock Fiio cable.
   
  But then after 10 hours, something must have "snapped" inside, and now the E11 sounds the same regardless of cable, but it's a lot more open than the E7.
   
  Not sure about the E17, but from ClieOS' other thread, I was under the impression that it wasn't as powerful as the E11 to him. Plus if it's any more bright sounding than this, I'd feel glad I canceled my preorder. E11 is already bordering on sibilant with my M50.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bill-p said:


> Yep. Beats cable. To be honest, I didn't expect much from it. The only reason why I used it initially was so that the E11 wouldn't dangle in midair from my MacBook. But surprisingly, it sounded cleaner than the stock Fiio cable.
> 
> But then after 10 hours, something must have "snapped" inside, and now the E11 sounds the same regardless of cable, but it's a lot more open than the E7.
> 
> Not sure about the E17, but from ClieOS' other thread, I was under the impression that it wasn't as powerful as the E11 to him. Plus if it's any more bright sounding than this, I'd feel glad I canceled my preorder. E11 is already bordering on sibilant with my M50.


 

 the E17 has EQ so..bass should be more on E17 if EQ'd and it has more power. yes i know what you mean. i read his stuff many times and know he said that. but really whatever. i got the e17 since i needed a DAC as well. now i wish i had two.


----------



## Bill-P

Well, don't get me wrong. Given the chance, I'd grab an E17 right as it appears. There are many things E17 does that I wish I have on the E11... such as the DAC like you said. I was particularly more interested in its capability as an optical/coaxial input DAC for my other devices that support it (including my MacBook), which should make it superior to the E11 in terms of sound quality.
   
  Power is only really a requirement to me if I wanted to drive higher impede cans, but since I don't own any, I don't think it factors in. It's a nice thing in case I decide to upgrade from the M50 to a pair of more open cans, so to say.
   
  In terms of EQ, I tend not to touch them. Especially bass. I like cleaner and more open sounds.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bill-p said:


> Well, don't get me wrong. Given the chance, I'd grab an E17 right as it appears. There are many things E17 does that I wish I have on the E11... such as the DAC like you said. I was particularly more interested in its capability as an optical/coaxial input DAC for my other devices that support it (including my MacBook), which should make it superior to the E11 in terms of sound quality.
> 
> Power is only really a requirement to me if I wanted to drive higher impede cans, but since I don't own any, I don't think it factors in. It's a nice thing in case I decide to upgrade from the M50 to a pair of more open cans, so to say.
> 
> In terms of EQ, I tend not to touch them. Especially bass. I like cleaner and more open sounds.


 
  we willl have to wait on CLIEOS $200 amp shootout 
   
  i like my bass muddy...at times


----------



## Stoney

Wondering what to buy -- I just care about amp sound quality (and size).  
  I have an E7 that I use with Phonak 232 and iPhone 4s as a great, small pocketable portable rig.  
   
  I'm wondering if the E11 might suit that function better.  
  I do find the E7 slightly sterile and flat in terms of instrument spatial illusion.  
   
  The E17 is an option, but I rarely use the digital input. I do enjoy the higher-tech interface, though.
  It might not be as warm and full soiunding as the E11, but if it is notably better than the E7
  and doesn't suffer from phone EMI like the E11, it might be the one for me.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





stoney said:


> Wondering what to buy -- I just care about amp sound quality (and size).
> I have an E7 that I use with Phonak 232 and iPhone 4s as a great, small pocketable portable rig.
> 
> I'm wondering if the E11 might suit that function better.
> ...


 

 im sorry but. the E11..probably has THE MOST threads and info on head fi. i hate it when people usually tell me or others to look it up as theres so many threads on it.. but seriously. the E11. is probably the most talked about amp in terms of how many threads are on it.. there is so much on the E11 and E7. i have the E5 and E17 so i can't give you a comparison sorry.
   
  oh and forgive me for my tone of voice. when you are online. it sounds harsh but just think of  me as that lecturing dude not having any ill intent.here's an awesome emoticon  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BAM!


----------



## Stoney

Heh, I get ya!  That's what I get for being impatient to purchase .... I'm not really a regular here lately.  
  OTOH, people's opinions change.  And products get updates or go downhill.  So I put on my helmet in advance.


----------



## ClieOS

bowei006 said:


> the E17 has EQ so..bass should be more on E17 if EQ'd and it has more power. yes i know what you mean. i read his stuff many times and know he said that. but really whatever. i got the e17 since i needed a DAC as well. now i wish i had two.




As I have somewhat mentioned in my E17 review - E11 has more control and power when in low gain setting, E17 is doing better in higher gain setting.



stoney said:


> ... but if it is notably better than the E7 and doesn't suffer from phone EMI like the E11, it might be the one for me.




It is.


----------



## Roller

ClieOS, did you find E17 to display any significant latency values when in use? Also, is the sound glitch free on both DirectSound and WASAPI?


----------



## ClieOS

roller said:


> ClieOS, did you find E17 to display any significant latency values when in use? Also, is the sound glitch free on both DirectSound and WASAPI?




I haven't noticed any latency issue or glitch on E17.


----------



## RASeymour

Loved the pics w/ scratched up amps.  It looks like you really own and used them.  Congratulations on 10k!


----------



## skafle

With a headphone that is already somewhat warm and colored, would you recommend a relatively neutral amp like the E11/E10 or a colored amp like Cmoy BB?


----------



## ClieOS

raseymour said:


> Loved the pics w/ scratched up amps.  It looks like you really own and used them.  Congratulations on 10k!




Some of the amps in the review are second handed, so they don't look shiny anymore. But I did given every amps a good spin before the review as it have taken me a few months to finally get them all.




skafle said:


> With a headphone that is already somewhat warm and colored, would you recommend a relatively neutral amp like the E11/E10 or a colored amp like Cmoy BB?




I tend to go opposite-pairing when it comes to synergy - warm sounding headphone with brighter sounding amp and so on. So in this case, without knowing what headphone it is, I'll guess cmoyBB might be a better choice.


----------



## Stoney

EMI noise from the cell phone -- This is unusual isn't it?  My only reservation, even with the low price, because I strap my E7 (and whatever might be next) to the phone  I find that kind of noise very annoying, whether detectable or subliminal.  
   
   
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/552605/fiio-e11-the-initial-impression-final-thought/825
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595924/need-some-advice-about-the-e11
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595687/fiio-e11-and-iphone-interference


----------



## Stoney

Just as an aside to the discussion of E11 and E17, I'd pop for the extra $ to get one of these small units: 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/573871/ibasso-t5-a-newly-designed-small-portable-specifications (several failures and startup pops have been reported)
   
  http://www.headfonia.com/pico-slim-first-impression/ (perhaps the least colored in the survey, wire-with-gain)
   
  http://www.headfonia.com/headstage-the-arrow-amplifier (good synergy with Phonak 232 because of less "present" low-mid treble; good features)
   
  All discussed in this survey: 
  http://www.headfonia.com/the-usual-suspects-12-portable-amps-compared/


----------



## ClieOS

stoney said:


> EMI noise from the cell phone -- This is unusual isn't it? My only reservation, even with the low price, because I strap my E7 (and whatever might be next) to the phone I find that kind of noise very annoying, whether detectable or subliminal.




EMI is not unusual at all. Most amps will get affected by EMI in some degree. E7 is one of those that has minimum problem on EMI. E11 is slightly worst. If you think E11's EMI issue is annoying, wait till you try PA2V2 or Total BitHead / Airhead - they are so loud that they probably cause hearing damage. 

To totally eliminate EMI from portable amps, you will have to add in a circuit which filter out the noise. But in most case, the circuit itself reduces the overall transparency of the amp and make it sounds worst than it can be. All in all, portable amps and cellphone are still not a good mix. 




stoney said:


> Just as an aside to the discussion of E11 and E17, I'd pop for the extra $ to get one of these small units:
> 
> ...




To add to that discussion, I don't always agree with Mike @ Headfonia. PA2V2 in this review is a good example. Also, spending more doesn't guarantee a better sound. O2 will be a good example. Never the less, T5 will be included in my upcoming sub$200 amps review, as well as O2 of course.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

ClieOS,
   
  I had huge EMI problems with the A10....whereas with the ZO2 it wasn't even half as bad - almost unnoticeable.
   
  Yet you have the ZO2 ranked worse in EMI resistance vs the A10?


----------



## ClieOS

totally dubbed said:


> ClieOS,
> 
> I had huge EMI problems with the A10....whereas with the ZO2 it wasn't even half as bad - almost unnoticeable.
> 
> Yet you have the ZO2 ranked worse in EMI resistance vs the A10?




I am only reporting the result of the test I have done with my Samsung Galaxy Ace. The condition is the same between ZO2 and A10, and A10 has less EMI issue.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I am only reporting the result of the test I have done with my Samsung Galaxy Ace. The condition is the same between ZO2 and A10, and A10 has less EMI issue.


 

 Interesting, I had exactly the opposite experience with my Samsung Galaxy S -> A10 was making so much noise on the way back, that it hurt my ears 
  Love the A10 though, don;t get me wrong!


----------



## badmod

It seems like the ZO is out of the $100 range. Why to spoil such a fun product??! ... sigh


----------



## ClieOS

badmod said:


> It seems like the ZO is out of the $100 range. Why to spoil such a fun product??! ... sigh




Yep, seems like it is going back up to the old ZO1's price.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

That's a little annoying...for people who don't have it :/


----------



## bowei006

Digizoid seems to have heard our.... talk about how the ZO2 really isn't even an amp so to say but a ...novelty ..thing i guess and they recently asked on facebook if they should add a add on to the ZO. they made add on very general by not saying if it was internal or external and just said ZO to keep the whole series in general.
   
  if teh "Add on" is external, im out. That external add on that will increase teh power of the ZO is called get *another amp*. if it's internal....i just can't wait for an $160 ZO2+ or ZO3 come out.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Well - maybe it was due to my comparison too ?
   
  ZO2 drives on high gain, but not on low gain.
  That said, I can't listen to music without it now + my MG7's love those bass contours.
   
  I paid only $65 shipped -> well worth it at that price.
  (bought off head-fi) v3


----------



## Mysterious

Which ones do you think can power the Bayerdynamic 250 ohm version effectively ?


----------



## kmhaynes

Clieos, as an ER-4P owner, I'm curious what you found with the E10 + ER-4S combination.  Did the E10 make any improvement for the ER-4S?  I'm driving my 4P with a Cowon J3, which seems strong enough to give the 4P some nice fullness, but may be the E10 would really give the 4P what it needs?


----------



## imackler

Since this is no longer strictly a sub-$100 thread (thanks to those digizoid price hikers), the only logical step is to add in more amps!  I mean the T3 is $119 too!
   
  Seriously though, I just got a T3 and can't wait to hear how you think the E11 stands up to it...or vice versa. And am really curious how both do against some of the more expensive amps in this price range.
   
  I'm really glad you are doing this review thread. We've long needed on this forum a wallet friend portable amp comparison!
   
  I'll twiddle my thumbs patiently till then!


----------



## ClieOS

mysterious said:


> Which ones do you think can power the Bayerdynamic 250 ohm version effectively ?




High impedance headphone require very little current, but there need more voltage to get louder. For all 8 amps listed here, only E11 is suitable for high impedance headphone because it has a 12dB (high) gain setting.



kmhaynes said:


> Clieos, as an ER-4P owner, I'm curious what you found with the E10 + ER-4S combination.  Did the E10 make any improvement for the ER-4S?  I'm driving my 4P with a Cowon J3, which seems strong enough to give the 4P some nice fullness, but may be the E10 would really give the 4P what it needs?




ER4S needs less current than 4P, but more voltage. E10 should be more than suffice to drive ER4S - but if you are getting sufficient volume out of J3, I think the difference you'll detect shouldn't be night and day. I don't really know how J3 sounds, but I will venture a guess and say maybe E10 will provide better control (speed and dampening, etc.) 



imackler said:


> Since this is no longer strictly a sub-$100 thread (thanks to those digizoid price hikers), the only logical step is to add in more amps!  I mean the T3 is $119 too!
> 
> Seriously though, I just got a T3 and can't wait to hear how you think the E11 stands up to it...or vice versa. And am really curious how both do against some of the more expensive amps in this price range.
> 
> ...




Some of it has been covered in my E11 review. Here.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

ClieOS - you really love the FiiO! 
  I see you recommending them all the time


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





totally dubbed said:


> ClieOS - you really love the FiiO!
> I see you recommending them all the time


 

 i don't see how you couldn't. When someone comes to you asking for a cheap amp that won't break teh bank that sounds nice, is versatile and has many features.. it's hard not to just think and say E6 and E11 and blurt out E10 to others..


----------



## ClieOS

totally dubbed said:


> ClieOS - you really love the FiiO!
> I see you recommending them all the time




For the price, what is there not to love? I am not saying FiiO is the be-all-end-all (nor is it close to that), but there are hardly any serious competition in their price range. But if you are willing to spend more, there are good amps on the higher price bucket as well. I really like T5 for its small size and BTL ground, O2 for its clean and totally transparent sound and StepDance for its smooth presentation and active balanced ground - and I won't hesitate to recommend any of them if you are looking into amps in their price range and the features they offer. I am going to pre-order C421 in the next few days and probably UHA-4 by the end of next month, I hope they will impress me as well. I might have quite a few FiiO, but I do own a few others as well and some of them are excellent on their own.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I am going to pre-order C421 in the next few days and probably UHA-4 by the end of next month, I hope they will impress me as well. I might have quite a few FiiO, but I do own a few others as well and some of them are excellent on their own.


 

 Oh cool !
  Yea I asked, because that's all I've seen you recommend.
  ie. You didn't like the ZO2 for example?
   
  Btw, what version of it do u have again?


----------



## Roller

ClieOS, I know this is a sub $100 thread, but I'm just curious what are your thoughts between the FiiO E17 and the iBasso D7. I'm only asking about SQ and amplification wise.


----------



## Mysterious

What about for the Beyerdynamics DT 770 Pro 80  ?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> What about for the Beyerdynamics DT 770 Pro 80  ?


 


  what about it? driveability? with what?
   
  My E17 drives it with no problems. Thus E11 should as well. i wasn't able to test with ipod direct out.


----------



## ClieOS

totally dubbed said:


> Oh cool !
> Yea I asked, because that's all I've seen you recommend.
> ie. You didn't like the ZO2 for example?
> 
> Btw, what version of it do u have again?




I do like the ZO2.3 I have and actually use it for bass boost more than I use E11 as amp. The problem is it hisses with some of my low impedance, high sensitivity IEM so I can't use all of them with ZO2.3. As an amp, it isn't the best around; but as a bass booster, it is great. That's why I only recommend ZO2.3 for those who want a bass boost first and an amp second.




roller said:


> ClieOS, I know this is a sub $100 thread, but I'm just curious what are your thoughts between the FiiO E17 and the iBasso D7. I'm only asking about SQ and amplification wise.




Haven't heard the D7, and likely won't as I have little use for another USB DAC for now. When it comes to iBasso, my attention is on their ultra-portable amps.



mysterious said:


> What about for the Beyerdynamics DT 770 Pro 80  ?




Do note, capable of driving a headphone and driving it well are two different things, especially if you put synergy into the mix.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I do like the ZO2.3 I have and actually use it for bass boost more than I use E11 as amp. The problem is it hisses with some of my low impedance, high sensitivity IEM so I can't use all of them with ZO2.3. As an amp, it isn't the best around; but as a bass booster, it is great. That's why I only recommend ZO2.3 for those who want a bass boost first and an amp second.
> Haven't heard the D7, and likely won't as I have little use for another USB DAC for now. When it comes to iBasso, my attention is on their ultra-portable amps.
> Do note, capable of driving a headphone and driving it well are two different things, especially if you put synergy into the mix.


 

 ah yes, its not really an amp - but it does bring a different sound signature 
  I had loads of hissing with the E11 - 0 with the ZO2


----------



## PurpleAngel

?


----------



## fleasbaby

Hi All,
   
  Was doing a little research on the PA2V2 and was asking Gary about the overcharging issue...his response was as follows:
   
_"RECHARGING THE BATTERIES

 Once the batteries are installed inside Pocket Amp 2, you will not have to open the amp up for about 500 to
 1000 recharging cycles, which should easily amount to three or four years of normal use. Pocket Amp 2 has
 a built in recharging circuit. When the AC adpater is plugged in, the batteries will automaticaly begin to
 recharge, whether the amplifier is in the ON or OFF position. *If the AC adapter is connected, and the amp is
 ON and being used, the batteries will not be overcharged. However, if the amplifier is OFF, the AC adapter
 should not be plugged in for periods longer than eight hours to avoid overcharging*._"
   
  You can also now adjust the gain using two screws in the unit.
   
  He is also putting them out using clear plastic at the moment as the red plastic he was using has gone off the market:
   
www.electric-avenues.com/pa2v2_clear.jpg


----------



## ClieOS

That's pretty much the same stuffs I have mentioned in the review, and of course the issues associated with them.


----------



## fleasbaby

Hi ClieOS,
   
  Sorry about that...I copied and pasted the wrong post contents ...silly me...below is his response regarding the issues with charging...
   
_"The information on the Opertation Instructions page is a little outdated. The website is currently being remade and will be ready in one more month.

The good thing with the amps today is that when the batteries inside get full, the charging rate slows down to a point where it is just keeping them topped up (no matter if the amp is on or off). So it is not possible to overcharge the batteries."_
   
So he has updated the units to actually never overcharge, thus eliminating the need to watch the unit if it isn't on and being used while charging.


----------



## ClieOS

fleasbaby said:


> Hi ClieOS,
> 
> Sorry about that...I copied and pasted the wrong post contents ...silly me...below is his response regarding the issues with charging...
> 
> ...




My PA2V2 was made June last year, so unless the update is between then and now (which I doubt as there is no mention of it), the same issue persists. I think he is just referring to how generic NiMH behaves when charged. When given a small enough current on a slightly higher voltage, you can indeed charge the battery indefinitely as the battery creates a certain resistance to the charging once it is getting closer to full. But the point is, it only works in certain condition (voltage vs current) and you could get into trouble if the condition change. It is still a hidden risk if you don't unplug the charger yourself after a certain period of time especially if you have used the battery for a while and it doesn't hold as much charge or voltage. This is no specific to PA2V2, as any rechargeable amp that doesn't has a charging circuit will be more or less run the same risk. It is some thing the user must be know to look for, even though it could very well be safe to use in years.


----------



## Roller

While there isn't specific info on hardware updates, Gary has made a few changes to PA2V2, like how all amps with serial numbers #8000 and beyond have better EMI shielding, and from #5000 there were a few parts updated, but I'm not in on that specific update.


----------



## ClieOS

Mine is #8000 and up, but EMI is still really bad. Only AirHead / BitHead is worst in all pf my amps.

I have looked into some old picture of PA2V2 (as early as 2007) and doesn't notice much change, at least not on the circuit design level. There are 1) the gain switches that replaced the fixed resistors, 2) using SMD instead of DIP8 and 3) caps upgrade. Don't really how those change can improve EMI in a significant way, unless the previous version has much worst EMI than what I already consider to be really bad EMI.


----------



## Roller

I have two PA2V2 amps, both previous to #8000 but already having gain switches, and curiously while my first amp did have rather noticeable EMI, my second one (almost near #8000) did have less EMI, while still having it though.
   
  Does your casing have markings or is it all black?


----------



## ClieOS

All black.


----------



## GL1TCH3D

Add the zo2 to the ranking! xD


----------



## ClieOS

gl1tch3d said:


> Add the zo2 to the ranking! xD




ZO2 is originally in the ranking. It was $99 when I posted the review, but the price goes up to $120 a few days later.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





clieos said:


> All black.


 


  All the casings with markings have better EMI shielding, while the all black ones are supposed to have the same shielding, but I can't confirm that all do.
   
  How severe is EMI with yours?


----------



## ClieOS

If AirHead / BitHead is a 1/10, I'll put PA2V2 around a 2/10 or 3/10


----------



## GL1TCH3D

clieos said:


> ZO2 is originally in the ranking. It was $99 when I posted the review, but the price goes up to $120 a few days later.



Oh damn. I didn't notice the recent 20% price hike


----------



## NotSoSerious

Wow, I really am impressed. Very impressed.
  Seriously, great job!
   
  I was looking for my first amp, and I wanted to start low..
  I'm not afraid to admit that I am an amature, with a laughably small wallet, but with large, ambitions of experiencing "audio nirvana".
  After 16 years of living in South Korea and moving here thanks to my Accelerated English grant ( It's not perfect, but good enough ).. It's hard to get some decent cash, especially with asian parents that expect me to study 24/7. I have a lot of spare time in the US as I homework  and school is ridiculously easy here, as Korea is far ahead in academics, school mostly being just review of stuff I learned years ago in Korea.
  With my low budget and stingy parents, it's small and slow progress.
   
   
  I think I will buy an E6 tomorrow. Really wanted to buy a Cmoy BB, but I couldn't persuade my parents to allow me to buy it with the altoids can... They just couldn't see how it is worth 40 dollars. Haha.
   
  Thanks very much!


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





clieos said:


> If AirHead / BitHead is a 1/10, I'll put PA2V2 around a 2/10 or 3/10


 


  Hum, that's harsh. But I have to admit I would like to compare your amp with mine, as my second one did improve on that.
   
  Out of curiosity, other than doing the electrical tape mod on the casing, do you think there is other things one might do to lessen the EMI effect?


----------



## Prakhar

The ZO2 is 99.95 on Amazon sold by Digizoid. Heres a link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00747N5ZE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A1Z0W9G89ZUQQU


----------



## ClieOS

roller said:


> Hum, that's harsh. But I have to admit I would like to compare your amp with mine, as my second one did improve on that.
> 
> Out of curiosity, other than doing the electrical tape mod on the casing, do you think there is other things one might do to lessen the EMI effect?




My theory is to do the simple aluminum foil mod, but the key is to connect the foil to the ground. That should be more helpful than foil or the electrical tape alone. Of course a metal case will be even better. That's why you don't get that many EMI from cmoy, thanks largely for Altoids case they usually in with the ground channel screwed onto it.



prakhar said:


> The ZO2 is 99.95 on Amazon sold by Digizoid. Heres a link:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00747N5ZE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A1Z0W9G89ZUQQU



Listed price is still $120 though. Discounted at $100 + $5 shipping is still cheaper at the end for the U.S. buyer. Good find.


----------



## WaLaoEh

Which has a better amp? the E11 or the E17? I have limited knowledge in audio,so it would be greatly appreciated if you could explain to me in layman terms. 
   
  I'm looking for an amp for my GR07, B2 ( which lacks bass ) , and my GR04 Pro Flagship.
   
  Source would be a Clip Zip playing 320kbps MP3s.


----------



## ClieOS

E11 has slightly better amp section - not quite as good on the width, but better in transparency and depth. E17, on the other hand, has a more upfront presentation that might appeal to more casual listener. The difference in SQ isn't that big apart actually. If you only want an amp with the minimum cost, E11. If you want the extra features and versatility, E17.


----------



## WaLaoEh

Quote: 





clieos said:


> E11 has slightly better amp section - not quite as good on the width, but better in transparency and depth. E17, on the other hand, has a more upfront presentation that might appeal to more casual listener. The difference in SQ isn't that big apart actually. If you only want an amp with the minimum cost, E11. If you want the extra features and versatility, E17.


 

  
  thanks for the fast reply!
  Which has better soundstage and imaging? which has less hiss? If I use the E17 as a DAC on my laptop/desktop,will it remove hiss? and will it improve my audio experience, such as watching movies, by simulating 7.1 or something like that? 
   
  If I used a stereo splitter and plug it into the output of the E17, and use two IEMs/headphones, will there be any difference in audio quality compared to a single IEM/headphone?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





walaoeh said:


> thanks for the fast reply!
> Which has better soundstage and imaging? which has less hiss? If I use the E17 as a DAC on my laptop/desktop,will it remove hiss? and will it improve my audio experience, such as watching movies, by simulating 7.1 or something like that?
> 
> If I used a stereo splitter and plug it into the output of the E17, and use two IEMs/headphones, will there be any difference in audio quality compared to a single IEM/headphone?


 

 E17 has better overall soundstage than E11. It also hiss much less than E11. As for whether it will remove hiss from your PC - I don't know, as it depends a lot on the PC itself. E17 is a headphone amp, so it only works in stereo. Whether you will find it better also depends on how good / bad it compare to the internal sound card of your PC.
   
  Using a splitter will affect how each headphone sounds, generally neither headphone will not sound at their best nor identical (unless the two headphones are the same models).


----------



## WaLaoEh

Quote: 





clieos said:


> E17 has better overall soundstage than E11. It also hiss much less than E11. As for whether it will remove hiss from your PC - I don't know, as it depends a lot on the PC itself. E17 is a headphone amp, so it only works in stereo. Whether you will find it better also depends on how good / bad it compare to the internal sound card of your PC.
> 
> Using a splitter will affect how each headphone sounds, generally neither headphone will not sound at their best - unless the two headphones are the same models.


 
  I see,thanks! I think I'll probably get the E17  once I have the dough.
  Thank you very much!


----------



## Bill-P

Well, I procured myself a CmoyBB recently from a friendly Head-fi'er. He was generous enough to include extra opamps for me to play around with.
   
  Initial testing with the OPA2227 gave me the impression that the Fiio E11 was far superior, but when I switched to the LME49720, I immediately noticed a difference in my DT990's sonic performance. The LME49720 cleaned up sound, gave a bit of soundstage, and somehow smoothed out the mid and gave it body. Fiio E11 at this point compared to CmoyBB sounded very thin and somewhat lacked "soul".
   
  I think I prefer CmoyBB now for the DT990, but I still find Fiio E11 to be a good match for my M50.
   
  One funny thing, though. Regardless of which opamp, the Bass Boost in the CmoyBB simply added "boom" rather than "bass". In that sense, Fiio E11 does a much better job of adding bass, I think.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





bill-p said:


> ...  Initial testing with the OPA2227 gave me the impression that the Fiio E11 was far superior, but when I switched to the LME49720, I immediately noticed a difference in my DT990's sonic performance. The LME49720 cleaned up sound, gave a bit of soundstage, and somehow smoothed out the mid and gave it body. Fiio E11 at this point compared to CmoyBB sounded very thin and somewhat lacked "soul".
> ...


 

 That's what I love about the cmoyBB (and cmoy in general). Once you roll the opamp, the sky is the limit and you get instant improvement (or degradation). Try out the AD8620 if you can. It is a bit more expensive to get and needs 18V (2 x 9V) to sound best but it too transform the cmoyBB to a higher level of SQ.


----------



## raymond8246

About what is the max impedance of a headphone can the E11 drive?


----------



## ClieOS

raymond8246 said:


> About what is the max impedance of a headphone can the E11 drive?




There is no such thing as max impedance for most modern solid state amp. The question is whether it will be enough gain (volume). E11 should be able to drive 300ohm headphone that has high enough sensitivity, but to be on the safe side, I'll say 250ohm and below.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





clieos said:


> There is no such thing as max impedance for most modern solid state amp. The question is whether it will be enough gain (volume). E11 should be able to drive 300ohm headphone that has high enough sensitivity, but to be on the safe side, I'll say 250ohm and below.


 

 Drives my 300 ohm HD580s just fine


----------



## aman Stark

hello, 
   
  this is my first post and i have read a lot here before and now i am thinking about purchasing the e11, i live in hong kong so it's quite hard to find other amps here. until now i have only find fiio's at this price.
  i would be very thankful if someone can tell me how well the UE TF10 does with e11, i only need the amp for my iphone 4s and only wants to boost a little bass and should i also purchase the LOD .


----------



## imackler

Definitely purchase a LOD. I think since the E11 has the bass boost you can't go wrong with the E11! Such a good amp for so little money!
  
  Quote: 





aman stark said:


> hello,
> 
> this is my first post and i have read a lot here before and now i am thinking about purchasing the e11, i live in hong kong so it's quite hard to find other amps here. until now i have only find fiio's at this price.
> i would be very thankful if someone can tell me how well the UE TF10 does with e11, i only need the amp for my iphone 4s and only wants to boost a little bass and should i also purchase the LOD .


----------



## aman Stark

Thanks imackler, which LOD do you think is good? how bout Fiio L9?.
  Quote: 





imackler said:


> Definitely purchase a LOD. I think since the E11 has the bass boost you can't go wrong with the E11! Such a good amp for so little money!


----------



## imackler

That's what I'm using. I think it works great!
  
  Quote: 





aman stark said:


> Thanks imackler, which LOD do you think is good? how bout Fiio L9?.


----------



## Bill-P

Quote: 





clieos said:


> There is no such thing as max impedance for most modern solid state amp. The question is whether it will be enough gain (volume). E11 should be able to drive 300ohm headphone that has high enough sensitivity, but to be on the safe side, I'll say 250ohm and below.


 
   
  I just got an Objective 2 amp in from JDS Labs, and I can pretty much say that with the O2 in the picture, I could definitely hear the limitations of the E11 in terms of power. My DT990 Pro 250Ohm seemed to hit the roof with the E11 very often, especially with heavy bass passages. Distortion was inevitable. With the O2, there was no distortion even at volumes that I can't listen to.
   
  So I would say that the E11 is better suited for lower impedance cans. Around 250 Ohm is seriously pushing it.
   
  But as a side note, the O2 didn't have any bass boost option, so I thought about chaining source -> E11 -> O2, and the result was like an E11 with a lot more power and authority. It was very satisfying, and Bass Boost level 2 on E11 didn't really sound as bloated. That's simply amazing.


----------



## aman Stark

thanks for the help, i guess i will be getting the E11 and L9 then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cheers
  Quote: 





imackler said:


> That's what I'm using. I think it works great!


----------



## ClieOS

bill-p said:


> I just got an Objective 2 amp in from JDS Labs, and I can pretty much say that with the O2 in the picture, I could definitely hear the limitations of the E11 in terms of power. My DT990 Pro 250Ohm seemed to hit the roof with the E11 very often, especially with heavy bass passages. Distortion was inevitable. With the O2, there was no distortion even at volumes that I can't listen to.
> ...




As I have mentioned before, the key is having 'high enough sensitivity'. E11 can still fail to drive a pair of 32 ohm headphone well if it has with very low sensitivity, while it can still drive a pair of 250 ohm headphone well enough if sensitivity is high enough. How well an amp driver a headphone is more than just impedance. It also involve sensitivity and on a less important, power requirement. Might also worth noting that impedance rating is generally done on 1kHz, and it is usually not the same across the whole frequency range - that also affect how well a particular amp will drive the headphone and how the headphone will react.

Of course, there is also no denying that O2 is one of the best portable amp around, capable of competing with amp the cost double or triple its price. E11 is good, just not that good. Though personally, I see very little point on double amping with E11 + O2.


----------



## Bill-P

Quote: 





clieos said:


> As I have mentioned before, the key is having 'high enough sensitivity'. E11 can still fail to drive a pair of 32 ohm headphone well if it has with very low sensitivity, while it can still drive a pair of 250 ohm headphone well enough if sensitivity is high enough. How well an amp driver a headphone is more than just impedance. It also involve sensitivity and on a less important, power requirement. Might also worth noting that impedance rating is generally done on 1kHz, and it is usually not the same across the whole frequency range - that also affect how well a particular amp will drive the headphone and how the headphone will react.
> Of course, there is also no denying that O2 is one of the best portable amp around, capable of competing with amp the cost double or triple its price. E11 is good, just not that good. Though personally, I see very little point on double amping with E11 + O2.


 
   
  I am not saying that the E11 is bad, though. Just that I could hear distortion at the same level (in terms of volume) compared to the O2. My understanding is that it has more to do with how much the amp can push out rather than how loud it can make the music go. This is also about the same with E11 vs CmoyBB where I can obviously hear distortion with CmoyBB at much lower volume than I thought possible with the DT990 Pro (no hope at all with DT880). If it's just to make things loud, I think the E11 does a very adequate job with my DT990 Pro (obviously not with the DT880 600Ohm). It's just the occasional distortion that bothered me. The O2 completely eliminated any sort of distortion.

 The way I understand it, the O2 is only supposed to add more power and volume to the original source without coloring. In which case, by double amping E11 + O2, it'll just be like I am adding more power to the E11.
   
  I sincerely like the sound signature of the E11, and I think that if a higher-power version of it (as a desktop amp) were to exist in an enclosure like the O2, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
   
  Edit: and I think I didn't answer the question completely. The reason why I'm double amping is more because the O2, by itself, really does seem to not add anything to the source, which makes it very flat to my taste. I tend to like a bit more bass emphasis to my music, so the E11 is there in the chain specifically for that task since I can't quite recreate what the E11 does to the sound signature with EQ. Also a nice benefit is that the E11 also cleans up high frequencies a bit, too, which makes it more transparent compared to the source to my ears. Well, it's just my personal preference in any case.


----------



## ClieOS

bill-p said:


> I am not saying that the E11 is bad, though. Just that I could hear distortion at the same level (in terms of volume) compared to the O2. My understanding is that it has more to do with how much the amp can push out rather than how loud it can make the music go. This is also about the same with E11 vs CmoyBB where I can obviously hear distortion with CmoyBB at much lower volume than I thought possible with the DT990 Pro (no hope at all with DT880). If it's just to make things loud, I think the E11 does a very adequate job with my DT990 Pro (obviously not with the DT880 600Ohm). It's just the occasional distortion that bothered me. The O2 completely eliminated any sort of distortion.
> 
> 
> The way I understand it, the O2 is only supposed to add more power and volume to the original source without coloring. In which case, by double amping E11 + O2, it'll just be like I am adding more power to the E11.
> ...




Just an advice - when it comes to amp, you need to volume match all the amps in comparison to (at least) within a 1dB. You might be surprise of how just a few dB of volume can totally change your opinion when A/B'ing.

O2 is designed to be as transparent as possible so you are free of any coloration while having the best possible performance, at least that's the designer's intent. Putting an E11 before it is really just adding unnecessary adding coloration as well as worsening the SNR. Not to say you can't do it or the result isn't enjoyable, just that it seems to contradict what O2 is supposed to do. But at the end, I guess it is the user who should decide what sounds best for his/her ears.


----------



## Bill-P

Well, I did try to volume match the amps, but without proper measuring tools, the best I can do is with my ears, and I suspect it's off by more than 1dB in most cases.
   
  But the problem is still that past level 6 on Fiio E11, the DT990 Pro would start distorting, whereas with O2, it would go much louder without distortion, though without the same bass power.
   
  You are right in that the O2 is very transparent, though, and I do use it standalone with just the Fiio D3 DAC directly when I'm using the DT880. It's with the DT990 that I chain the E11 in to boost bass, because the E11 does a very good job of keeping the bass under control to me. The DT990 is already inaccurate to begin with, so I don't really worry that much about adding coloration to it. Just that the E11 alone doesn't have enough power to push bass without distortion.


----------



## kenman345

The ZO2 is still $100 on Amazon, even from digiZoid when purchased through Amazon, thus it should still qualify


----------



## Mirrood

I don't know why because I'm an audio newbie but FiiO L9 makes this amp sound much cleaner and better. It went from a little improvement to a lot of improvement after I used the L9.


----------



## ClieOS

bill-p said:


> Well, I did try to volume match the amps, but without proper measuring tools, the best I can do is with my ears, and I suspect it's off by more than 1dB in most cases.
> 
> But the problem is still that past level 6 on Fiio E11, the DT990 Pro would start distorting, whereas with O2, it would go much louder without distortion, though without the same bass power.
> 
> You are right in that the O2 is very transparent, though, and I do use it standalone with just the Fiio D3 DAC directly when I'm using the DT880. It's with the DT990 that I chain the E11 in to boost bass, because the E11 does a very good job of keeping the bass under control to me. The DT990 is already inaccurate to begin with, so I don't really worry that much about adding coloration to it. Just that the E11 alone doesn't have enough power to push bass without distortion.




I suspect it is a current limiting issue. Perhaps DT990 is just asking too much current that it is beyond E11 capability. Don't forget O2 uses 2 opamp parallel in each channel to get more current output than most portable amps. Dual 9V supply also plays a big factor too.



kenman345 said:


> The ZO2 is still $100 on Amazon, even from digiZoid when purchased through Amazon, thus it should still qualify




Well, Amazon is limited to North America only. So that's pretty much a 'local' price.



mirrood said:


> I don't know why because I'm an audio newbie but FiiO L9 makes this amp sound much cleaner and better. It went from a little improvement to a lot of improvement after I used the L9.




Which amp are you using?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I still don't understand how the E11 nor E6/5 has less hissing than the ZO2.
  Same goes for EMI on the A10 vs ZO2...


----------



## ClieOS

totally dubbed said:


> I still don't understand how the E11 nor E6/5 has less hissing than the ZO2.
> Same goes for EMI on the A10 vs ZO2...




Unfortunately there is no one near me who owns a ZO2 that I can borrow, or else it would be relatively easy to determine if it is my ZO2's issues or it is indeed every ZO2's issue. For now, I can only follow the result of the test.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Unfortunately there is no one near me who owns a ZO2 that I can borrow, or else it would be relatively easy to determine if it is my ZO2's issues or it is indeed every ZO2's issue. For now, I can only follow the result of the test.


 

 Ok :/
  I used the A10 and Zo2 on my commute, and can tell you that the A10 had a lot of trouble with EMI
  My Zo2 dual locked, barely has any, and when it does, it's not ear piercingly loud like the A10's
   
  Hiss wise:
 I put my D2K's in my room (quiet environment) and could tell the E11 had the loudest hiss, almost as loud as the E5 had.
  A10 cam after that with barely any hiss, and then the ZO2 with the very slightest hiss.
   
  All plugged into my phone and PC for the same test + 2 way splitter to make sure.
   
  Also ClieOS,
  How do you compare the E5 and E6?
  If you own the E5, might be worth putting it in the list


----------



## ClieOS

totally dubbed said:


> ...
> Also ClieOS,
> How do you compare the E5 and E6?
> If you own the E5, might be worth putting it in the list



Well, since we have different test conditions, I don't see why our result will be the same. I have all amps volume matched (Fuze's line-out, 1kHz test tone to RE0 in 100dB), in the lowest gain, then listened via SE530. Note, this is a real world listening volume (okay, just slightly louder than what I'll generally go for), not max out in volume or gain. It won't be much fair to compare amps in their highest gain or volume since that's not how people will use them generally with a line-out source and it puts amp with higher gain in disadvantage (with worst SNR).

Comparison between E5 and E6 is somewhat given on my E6 review. Not including E5 in the review because it has been discontinued and replaced by the better sounding E6. I do have a few more sub-$100 amps that I can include into this review, but the point is to only include what I think are more worthy of mentioning / popular among current HF'er.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote: 





clieos said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well for me, I went via my own ears, and both at the same volume of what I normally listen to.
  FYI: ZO2 was on high gain too - meaning in theory even worse hissing - but that was not the case.
   
  E5 wise and other products.
  I never go on what others think should or shouldn't be here.
  If it is your comparison, then it should truly be your decision to include the amps.
  The more the merrier.
   
  If I went via the HF'er rule:
 -C751
  -C710
  -TFTA 1XB
  -TFTA 1V
  -EX510
  -EX500
   
  Would have never been known or listened to.
  There is so little love for those products I mentioned above, yet they do excel.
  And yet, all those products above, I rate higher than the IE7/8, se535, and westone 2's
  Yet the sennheiser, shure and westones are raved about.


----------



## ClieOS

Though I didn't include the actual data, measurement and analysis did take a lot of time so I was not going to invest time on amps I think that are more obscure. The point of this review, as like my IEM review, is not to cover everything, but to cover the basic so it will give readers a starting point for their own research. Plus, I actually do have a day job


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Though I didn't include the actual data, measurement and analysis did take a lot of time so I was not going to invest time on amps I think that are more obscure. The point of this review, as like my IEM review, is not to cover everything, but to cover the basic so it will give readers a starting point for their own research. Plus, I actually do have a day job


 

 haha 
 And no, I actually prefer it without all the science behind it.
  I like your reviews, I really do!
 Although slightly disagree with 1 or 2 factors on this one.
   
  Then again, we don't have the same ears, equipment, nor tastes.


----------



## dany74q

Hey there ClieOS ,
   
  I`m moments away from purchasing a CmoyBB 2.03 for my re-262's , though this review had me 
  reconsider my choices and maybe get the E11 instead . 
  Which would you recommend between the two ? 
   
  Because I have to say , I have the E6 and I somehow dislike it , it makes the sound very un-natural 
  and kind of cheap , can't really point why (well at the price of it I did not expect much either) , 
  and I was thinking maybe the E11 , as a member of the E series of FiiO's has sort of a similar 
  results .
   
  I enjoyed reading the review , thank you ,
   
  Danny .


----------



## ClieOS

dany74q said:


> I`m moments away from purchasing a CmoyBB 2.03 for my re-262's , though this review had me
> reconsider my choices and maybe get the E11 instead .
> Which would you recommend between the two ?




When it comes to RE262, I'll go for the cmoyBB actually as I find they have good synergy together. E11 will do a fiune job as well, but not necessary better.


----------



## imackler

I'm excited to hear the RE262. I just ordered my first RE* earphone, largely on your recommendation. I'll be pairing it with the E11. I have a feeling though if I really like it, I may end up trying the RE272, too.
   
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> When it comes to RE262, I'll go for the cmoyBB actually as I find they have good synergy together. E11 will do a fiune job as well, but not necessary better.


----------



## ClieOS

imackler said:


> I'm excited to hear the RE262. I just ordered my first RE* earphone, largely on your recommendation. I'll be pairing it with the E11. I have a feeling though if I really like it, I may end up trying the RE272, too.




Cool. Though I recommend cmoyBB with RE262 based on better synergy, E11 do drive RE262 really fine as well. 

On minor news, I just placed an order of fred_fred_2004's 3 channels cmoy on eBay and hopefully will receive it within the next two weeks. Similar to my own DIY'ed cmoy2, it is an A47 based design with an active ground. If it sounds just as good as my cmoy2, E11 might be in for a tough fight for the top spot. We'll see.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Cool. Though I recommend cmoyBB with RE262 based on better synergy, E11 do drive RE262 really fine as well.
> On minor news, I just placed an order of fred_fred_2004's 3 channels cmoy on eBay and hopefully will receive it within the next two weeks. Similar to my own DIY'ed cmoy2, it is an A47 based design with an active ground. If it sounds just as good as my cmoy2, E11 might be in for a tough fight for the top spot. We'll see.


 
   

 Aah! More options! To make matters worst, I just purchased the RE272, before my RE262 even arrived. I blame you and your sonic diamonds!


----------



## jamesva3

in your review of the PA2V2 you mentioned that the volume knob was actually a gain control, which can cause clipping, should i worry about clipping in a full size home headset? (ath-a700, 500mW max input and 64ohm) im trying to learn what all these acronyms and audio terminology means but its a slow process.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





jamesva3 said:


> in your review of the PA2V2 you mentioned that the volume knob was actually a gain control, which can cause clipping, should i worry about clipping in a full size home headset? (ath-a700, 500mW max input and 64ohm) im trying to learn what all these acronyms and audio terminology means but its a slow process.


 
   
  I never noticed any clipping when I used the PA2V2 with my HD580s, and those are 300ohms. It performed just fine with my dad's AD700s


----------



## ClieOS

jamesva3 said:


> in your review of the PA2V2 you mentioned that the volume knob was actually a gain control, which can cause clipping, should i worry about clipping in a full size home headset? (ath-a700, 500mW max input and 64ohm) im trying to learn what all these acronyms and audio terminology means but its a slow process.




Don't remember I have said anything about gain control and clipping n the review. However, it will clip only if the input is too high. Normal iPod level of line-out (0.5Vpp) should be fine, but standard line-out (2Vpp) might be more of a problem. Though I really don't think that will be that much of a problem as max gain on PA2V2 isn't quite as high as you might think. It is a bit more complicated as gain on PA2V2 is set by the ratio between the variable resistor pot and the volume pot, and it will only go up that much before maxing out. I tried to set them in various configuration abd found out that in general, setting the varible pot in lowest position will give you much better control over the gain and useable area n volume pot. The claim on unlimited (or very high level of) of gain control, like many aspests of PA2V2 technicalitis, isn't really as good / accurate as it is. That's the reason why I recommend against it in the review.


----------



## jamesva3

have you by any chance posted a list of audio acronyms and definitions? i dont know what vpp means and other lists dont have it...


----------



## ClieOS

Vpp means Peak-to-Peak Voltage. Music is in AC (alternating current) form, like continuous up and down wave. Vpp means the up-most and down-most point in the wave form of the voltage. 0.5Vpp means the signal goes from -0.5V to 0.5V when it is in a full swing.






Here are some of the term we used:
http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary
http://www.head-fi.org/a/glossary-of-terms

There are just too many terms to fully cover by any one list, since some terms are electronics related and not audio specific. The easiest way is just google them out.


----------



## jamesva3

thank you so much! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I shall have your username carved in glorious perfection on the inside of my new sub $100 amp


----------



## jamesva3

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Don't remember I have said anything about gain control and clipping n the review. However, it will clip only if the input is too high. Normal iPod level of line-out (0.5Vpp) should be fine, but standard line-out (2Vpp) might be more of a problem. Though I really don't think that will be that much of a problem as max gain on PA2V2 isn't quite as high as you might think. It is a bit more complicated as gain on PA2V2 is set by the ratio between the variable resistor pot and the volume pot, and it will only go up that much before maxing out. I tried to set them in various configuration abd found out that in general, setting the varible pot in lowest position will give you much better control over the gain and useable area n volume pot. The claim on unlimited (or very high level of) of gain control, like many aspests of PA2V2 technicalitis, isn't really as good / accurate as it is. That's the reason why I recommend against it in the review.


 
  From the review: "The 3rd thing I noticed is the volume control, which if I am not mistaken, is more like a gain control. By setting the ratio between the two internal variable resistor switches and the volume pot, the overall gain can be controlled (and so as the output volume). The few problems are, 1) the two variable resistors are not always matched, even in their lowest position. I have to match them myself to balance the left and right channels using RMAA and Stepdance as reference. 2) Rising the variable resistor not only increase gain, but also decrease the usable area of the volume pot (causing pot to max out on gain even when it hasn’t reached its highest position). 3) Rising gain seems to worsen the performance of the chip"
   
I am not nit-picking, but i want to thoroughly understand amps before i buy one (me stupid), also i had the impression that increasing gain can cause destructive clipping if the device receiving the output has low ohm (like maybe 32 or 16?). Would portable amps offer any sound quality improvement if used in tandem w/ an xbox 360? i have noticed that my ath-a700s to be exceptionally underpowered in their soundstage performance which is what they are praised for. i also use a $2    m--m 3.5mm coupler and a $2 Rca--3.5mm male audio jack for audio, i think these might be the culprit (for bad sound quality) but i couldnt find any similar products that seem to be of higher build quality.​


----------



## ClieOS

As you have quoted, I have said nothing about clipping in the review. Increasing gain doesn't equal to automatic clipping. Sure, it happens when you set the gain too high for the amp to drive, but that's user error more than the fault of the amp. It is likely accident due to drunk driving but blames the car for poor handling. Also, it has nothing to do with the impedance of the headphone. You can over-drive a headphone, but not 'clipping' it. Clipping is an electronic concept only applies to amp, not headphone. More so, why do you want to over-drive a headphone when you have a volume knob to control the volume?

I don't have a Xbox and will not presume if an amp will make it sound better or not. I also never know that soundstage can be 'underpowered'. Soundstage don't need power, what it needs is good layer, transparency, resolution and imaging. An good amp can provide you will those qualities, but whether it will be an improvement relies on the whole setup, not just one individual components.

Don't buy into the cable myth. Sure, some good cable do sound better, but they are often the most minor of things to tweak for and many very expensive cable doesn't worth half the price they asked for, at least IMO. That's too much of a wishful thinking to believe that adding a $2000 cable in a $200 system will make it sound 10 times as good - not gonna happen.


----------



## jamesva3

alright thanks for the info


----------



## Judge Buff

Great thread, ClieOS!
   
  I have a couple of requests/recommendations. fred_fred2004 has several amps <$100 with one being a Texas Instrument TPA "audiophile" version that I really like. The other is an 18V cMoy RA-1 (JRC4556) that I received today from an ebay auction. It is made by a vendor called ampedup77. This is a strong, "mint tin" amp, that is slightly warm & sweet (as an initial impression) and is a BIN bargain at ~$50.
   
  If I had your expertise, I'd attempt to review them. As I don't have an iota of your knowledge, could you try to get them for review? Head-Fi users would definitely benefit from adding them to this comparison.


----------



## ClieOS

judge buff said:


> Great thread, ClieOS!
> 
> I have a couple of requests/recommendations. fred_fred2004 has several amps <$100 with one being a Texas Instrument TPA "audiophile" version that I really like. The other is an 18V cMoy RA-1 (JRC4556) that I received today from an ebay auction. It is made by a vendor called ampedup77. This is a strong, "mint tin" amp, that is slightly warm & sweet (as an initial impression) and is a BIN bargain at ~$50.
> 
> If I had your expertise, I'd attempt to review them. As I don't have an iota of your knowledge, could you try to get them for review? Head-Fi users would definitely benefit from adding them to this comparison.




I will add Howard (fred_fred2004) 3 channels portable amp (dual LM4562 + single LM6171) to the review soonish. It is a similar design to the cmoy2 I DIY'ed quite a long time ago and I believe it is Howard current top-of-the-line. Anyway, I'll see what I can do but my focus is on the sub$200 category right now, hoping to finish the review for them before the end of May. Would have finished the review by now but I am having a bad case of the flu for almost a week now and most of the time I feel like a zombie between the symptoms and the medicine.


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Great reviews. 
   
  How about the fiio e17?


----------



## ClieOS

noodleboy91 said:


> Great reviews.
> 
> How about the fiio e17?




It will be in the sub$200 shootout.


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Quote: 





clieos said:


> It will be in the sub$200 shootout.


 
  Oh cool


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





clieos said:


> It will be in the sub$200 shootout.


 
   
  Teasing us with your signature. That's cold, man.


----------



## kenman345

I just keep hoping a "[Portable Balanced Amp Shootout]" section in his sig. Can't seem to find much head to head battles between the different options.
  Quote: 





imackler said:


> Teasing us with your signature. That's cold, man.


----------



## ClieOS

kenman345 said:


> I just keep hoping a "[Portable Balanced Amp Shootout]" section in his sig. Can't seem to find much head to head battles between the different options.




Ain't there only 2~3 portable balanced amp in the market? I am not really that sure as I don't pay attention to them at all. They are mostly pointless for me as I can't / won't recable most of my IEM, especially since every balanced amp maker uses their own connector. That is the big reason why I go for StepDance in the first place - just as good as balanced amp, but without all the worries of recabling or future headphone upgrade. I don't see myself needing or wanting any portable balanced amp in the foreseeable future, so the chance of reviewing them is near zero.


----------



## kenman345

Your endorsement of the Stepdance is good enough now. And there are about 5 or 6 I believe on the market. with two different forms of connection, unless you count the secondary amp you can get for the hifiman 801 for balanced that uses a TRRS plug.
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> Ain't there only 2~3 portable balanced amp in the market? I am not really that sure as I don't pay attention to them at all. They are mostly pointless for me as I can't / won't recable most of my IEM, especially since every balanced amp maker uses their own connector. That is the big reason why I go for StepDance in the first place - just as good as balanced amp, but without all the worries of recabling or future headphone upgrade. I don't see myself needing or wanting any portable balanced amp in the foreseeable future, so the chance of reviewing them is near zero.


----------



## imackler

So which amps are you adding to the sub-$200 shootout?


----------



## ClieOS

imackler said:


> So which amps are you adding to the sub-$200 shootout?




Lear FSM-01, iBasso T3 and T5, JDS Labs C421 (AD8620 and OPA2227) and O2, Leckerton Audio UHA-4, FiiO E17, plus a reappearance of HeadRoom Total BiHead and digiZoid ZO2.3. The las t two have of course somewhat been reviewed in this shootout, but they will be re-listed solely because of their popularity in the forum.


----------



## Prakhar

clieos said:


> Lear FSM-01, iBasso T3 and T5, JDS Labs C421 (AD8620 and OPA2227) and O2, Leckerton Audio UHA-4, FiiO E17, plus a reappearance of HeadRoom Total BiHead and digiZoid ZO2.3. The las t two have of course somewhat been reviewed in this shootout, but they will be re-listed solely because of their popularity in the forum.





Cant wait, I will definitely check it out.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Lear FSM-01, iBasso T3 and T5, JDS Labs C421 (AD8620 and OPA2227) and O2, Leckerton Audio UHA-4, FiiO E17, plus a reappearance of HeadRoom Total BiHead and digiZoid ZO2.3. The las t two have of course somewhat been reviewed in this shootout, but they will be re-listed solely because of their popularity in the forum.


 
  Brilliant! I thought you were just going to add 3 sub $200 amps to your sub $100 thread (since all those are under $200, too). I do think a final ranking of all 17 would be sweet. 
   
  I know money is sadly limited, but I would be thrilled to hear how the Neco Soundlab V.3 would fare in this comparison as well. I've conversed with a few on here who had some very positive things to say about it. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/new-V3-DUAL-AMP-portable-headphone-amplifier-/140751982364?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item20c578cf1c#ht_7524wt_1185


----------



## DemonFox

Great job and thank you for the advice. I'm going to try the e11 this weekend and hopefully it will fill the gap that is having great cans and only an iPhone and Macbook pro to power them.


----------



## AstralStorm

Oh you tease. I'm really looking for something to replace my damaged FiiOs with and I'm not sure I trust the company enough to have no build quality issues anymore. Thus waiting for the $200 review.
   
  Pity O2 w/ ODAC is quite a bit beyond $200...


----------



## ClieOS

astralstorm said:


> Pity O2 w/ ODAC is quite a bit beyond $200...




Well, O2 with ODAC isn't exactly portable as well... But I am quite interested in ODAC in the standalone case so I can stack the C421 on top of it.


----------



## AstralStorm

Yes, part of the reason I don't want the 2-in-1 package there.


----------



## ClieOS

Slightly update to the Total AirHead's remark with the output impedance correction. Will add the 3 Channels Amp (dual LM4562 + Single LM6171) by fred_fred_2004 (which is also a member in the forum) soon, probably in the next day or two. 

Also, sorry for another delay to the sub-$200 shoot-out as I just acquired a new, better multimeter and decide to remeasure all the data on the sub-$200 portable amps I have gathered, and that is almost 2 weeks of work that needs to be redone, including the interpretation of those data. But I would rather take the time to do it right at the first time. The new multimeter is also the reason why TA has a more accurate output impedance now, so it is worth the time and effort.


----------



## Mollos

Thanks for the great review. Will help me a lot with my next purchase of a "pretty" decent amp!


----------



## ClieOS

As promised, fred_fred_2004's 3 channels amp has been added to the shootout.


----------



## Evshrug

ClieOS, thanks for your well-considered, compare and contrast reviews here. I originally bought the E5 back when FiiO was going to first release that and you reviewed a preproduction sample, and I've enjoyed it since then (which has been, what, 3 years?).

You get posts about "which is best" all the time, but I'm going to try and hold out for your sub $200 review and hope you have some weighted value to compare the top amps from that category vs this sub $100 round-up. Based on your findings, I'll either mate my AKG Q701 and Etymotic ER*6i with a FiiO E11 portable and Yamaha Reciever when I'm home, or use those two headphones with a do-all amp that proves enough value over staying low-budget.

I think it's awesome that your hobby is useful to others in addition to yourself!


----------



## ClieOS

Glad to know you find this thread useful. The sub-$200 shootout is almost ready. Would have posted it by the end of this week but I have a business trip this evening and will be gone till the weekend. I should be able to get it up by Monday or Tuesday though, so stay tuned.


----------



## BullHorn

After reading this thread and googling for a few hours, I ended up buying both a PA2V2 and Gary's 3 channel rechargeable amps.
   
  I'll let you guys know what I think once they arrive.


----------



## ClieOS

bullhorn said:


> After reading this thread and googling for a few hours, I ended up buying both a PA2V2 and Gary's 3 channel rechargeable amps.
> 
> I'll let you guys know what I think once they arrive.




You mean Howard's? Gary builds PA2V2, Howard builds 3 Channels amp


----------



## BullHorn

Erm, yeah, that's exactly what I meant. Sorry.


----------



## sashaw

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Lear FSM-01, iBasso T3 and T5, JDS Labs C421 (AD8620 and OPA2227) and O2, Leckerton Audio UHA-4, FiiO E17, plus a reappearance of HeadRoom Total BiHead and digiZoid ZO2.3. The las t two have of course somewhat been reviewed in this shootout, but they will be re-listed solely because of their popularity in the forum.


 
   
  I am selling my Lear FSM-01 at the moment. Like to see what you think about it.


----------



## ClieOS

sashaw said:


> I am selling my Lear FSM-01 at the moment. Like to see what you think about it.




My FSM-01 impression is here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/574826/impression-lear-fsm-01

As an amp, better sounding than almost all the amps in this shootout except for the 3 Channels Amp. I think the two is close to be on par.


----------



## tonyc2468

Thanks for the reviews it gives a great summary of some great products in this category. I think Fred_fred_2004's 3 Channels Headphone Amp is great sounding - For anyone in the market in this price range Also worth considering is The Ultimate Cmoy Rechargeable also made by Fred_fred_2004 and is similar price to the 3 channel heaphone amp in the review above (picture above). This has transformed my listening from my cowon J3 and S9 players amd works well with my IEM (IE7 triple fi and shure SE520) along with full sized cans.


----------



## clone1008

Thanks for the review!


----------



## BullHorn

I just received the PA2V2. I don't hear any difference yet, I use easy to drive headphones (AKG K240 and Audio Technica D40fs) so I'll give it a week with the amp and see if I notice any difference.
   
  What I did notice from the first minute was pretty noticeable EMI when I plugged it into my Android.


----------



## BullHorn

The EMI was gone after I re-seated the batteries. I still can't tell a difference between listening with or without the PA2V2.
   
  However, I got the Fred_fred_2004's rechargeable cMoy (Same one tony posted above). It actually has an impact on the sound. The lows sound just as big but less muddy.
   
  The problem however is that it's not really rechargeable. It works from the DC charger but once I unplug it, it dies after 5-15 minutes. I'm currently speaking to Howard via eBay and trying to resolve this issue...


----------



## Judge Buff

Howard truly takes care of his customers. Awesome amps from an awesome Aussie!


----------



## Makiah S

... so I got the JDS Labs cMoy BB 2.03 2x9V [the most expensive one they sell] how do I know which opamp is in it? You mentioned the AD8620 and another one...
   
  My main question is seeing as I have the best one they sold, how will it compare to an E11 [which is still 8 days out for me]
   
  My issue with the cMoy is I'd like a tiny bit more bass boost in the sub region, for mids it's wonderful and at about 20 horus burn in, it's as good [bass wise] as my E6 on the Blue LED setting [which btw the Blue LED setting E6 sounds horriably dark and almost muddy compared to the cMoy]
   
  I got the E11 simply because I saw the words "Colored" and well I want an ENTIRELY transparent amp for my Dt 880 so I can use them for pure Refrance... so of the two the E11 and the 2x9V cMoy BB 2.03, which is more Transparent?
   
  [I do how ever like the cMoy, it brings more detail and MUCH more width in sound stage to me than the E6]
   
  Looking at the Ultimate cMoy Rechargable by Fred_Fred_2004, I noticed buying from him can drop u about $120 if ur in the states... $20 more than my JDS <.< I hope his isn't to much better than mine q.Q' [Can't complain about mine though]


----------



## ClieOS

Stock cmoyBB comes with OPA2227. You can check by looking on the opamp (the big black chip with 4 pins on two sides), it will say '2227' on it. If it is AD8620, it will be very small and on adapter, since it only comes in SOIC package. AD8620 is far more expensive than OPA2227, so you will have buy it on your own (unless you specified when ordering).

If you are looking for a very transparent portable amp, I think you will need to move up to the $200 category and beyond, especially since DT880-250 isn't the easiest of cans to drive for most sub-$100 amp.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Stock cmoyBB comes with OPA2227. You can check by looking on the opamp (the big black chip with 4 pins on two sides), it will say '2227' on it. If it is AD8620, it will be very small and on adapter, since it only comes in SOIC package. AD8620 is far more expensive than OPA2227, so you will have buy it on your own (unless you specified when ordering).
> If you are looking for a very transparent portable amp, I think you will need to move up to the $200 category and beyond, especially since DT880-250 isn't the easiest of cans to drive for most sub-$100 amp.


 
  well the cMoy I have has enough power to drive them without any distortion [I tired my Fiio E6 it sounded like some one was throwing rocks at my ears] and bwah it is that 2227 hunka junka <.<,
   
  Which my cMoy Dt 880 hifiman hm 601 Combo sounds fine [much better than Zune Xb 700 Fiio E6] but yea a better Amp is needed, I'm actually selling my Nintedo DS's soon so that Should Bring in the money I need to get that new Amp! There is actually one set of songs that sounds much cleaner with the cMoy when the bass Boost is off so... $189 amp here comes I e.e [Should not have gotten that E11 xD Oh well no biggie <3]


----------



## H3ndrix

Great comparison, I was thinking in the FiiO E11 for an IPod Classic whit a Sennheiser HD 595.
Thanks for the review


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





h3ndrix said:


> Great comparison, I was thinking in the FiiO E11 for an IPod Classic whit a Sennheiser HD 595.
> Thanks for the review


 
  Glad you liked it! The cMoy imo is a GREAT portable SS amp for Transparent cans like the Dt 880 pro 250 ohm. It has a nice subtle warm sound with rich mids and smooth highs. More V shaped and fun cans will benifit from the E11 much more since it's significantly less colored


----------



## jham1496

Very concise and helpful review, its obvious a lot of time went into it.  Thanks for the help


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





jham1496 said:


> Very concise and helpful review, its obvious a lot of time went into it.  Thanks for the help


 
  Yea all of us here, listen and compare our amps alot!
   
  One I think maybe should be added are the Bravo V2 and Indeed G3 [it's around $119 but that's cuz it's the holidays] they are both Intro Tube Hybrid amps... I've been looking at them my self... and I might add a review of them here since they are Sub $100! If CeliIos let's me :3
   
  still glad you guys are enjoying this thread communites combined listening!


----------



## Evshrug

Mshenay,
Two things, first, ClieOS is reviewing portable amps here, mainly targeting those most suitable for use with sensitive IEMs. The O2 is probably as large as he'll include. Second, posting your review in the comments thread here will get buried in a day or two, the review would be more useful if you write it in the regular Reviews section so that your rating is added to others and people will see your review if they go looking for information on the amp. Make sense? I really ought to write my review on my class-A tube amp, but I keep getting delayed from really sitting down and thinking it through.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Mshenay,
> Two things, first, ClieOS is reviewing portable amps here, mainly targeting those most suitable for use with sensitive IEMs. The O2 is probably as large as he'll include. Second, posting your review in the comments thread here will get buried in a day or two, the review would be more useful if you write it in the regular Reviews section so that your rating is added to others and people will see your review if they go looking for information on the amp. Make sense? I really ought to write my review on my class-A tube amp, but I keep getting delayed from really sitting down and thinking it through.


 
  Yea good point, I just love this thread so much I figured "LETS ADD TO IT MAN!" but that's a good point you make. I... don't own iems so I wouldn't be helping to much lol
   
  Still... the Hybrid Tube I have is smaller than the O2 [it's TINY]  but mines comes in tommorow... you and I outa review them at the same time! Makes it more fun I would think
   
  Also ... OMG the Fiio E6 is the #1 best selling headphone amp at Amazon right now... wow... xD that's a real shame. But hey I started on the Fiio E6 my self. so Hopefully ALL THOSE E6 owners will mature into E11 or JDS lab amps one day lol


----------



## Evshrug

I love this thread/guide too!
My gateway drug was the E5, which was yesteryear's E6.
It's frankly amazing how much the Q701 scales up with a powerful amp.
When you say you have a tiny tube amp, and one comes tomorrow, does that mean you'll have "two" tube amps? Interesting. Either way though, I should be able to write SOMETHING tomorrow afternoon, I'll make a new thread for us to pass back-and-forth impressions as we listen  I'll call it something like "Indeed G3 and Rock 'n Glass, dueling impressions!"


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I love this thread/guide too!
> My gateway drug was the E5, which was yesteryear's E6.
> It's frankly amazing how much the Q701 scales up with a powerful amp.
> When you say you have a tiny tube amp, and one comes tomorrow, does that mean you'll have "two" tube amps? Interesting. Either way though, I should be able to write SOMETHING tomorrow afternoon, I'll make a new thread for us to pass back-and-forth impressions as we listen
> ...


 
  Indeed, you'd better get to it! It's about 3-4 hours till mine arrives :3
   
  And yea this thread, lead me to purchase the E11 and my JDS cMoy xD


----------



## ClieOS

FiiO E02i and E07K added.


----------



## Evshrug

Great review again ClieOS, I was especially curious about the E07k's performance as it really has an amazing feature set for the price. Another thing, I just want to reiterate that your review style is clean and consistent, with just the right info and length. Thanks again for doing what you do!


----------



## jadawgis732

Before I got even half way to say thank you so much. This is going to make my job of choosing an amp so much easier.


----------



## Noahjaws

Have you ever tried or owned the C&C BH or C&C BK?  I would love to know how these amps compare to the Fiio e11


----------



## ClieOS

No, never have the chance to listen to any C&C before.


----------



## PNWwildcat

First of all, a huge thanks to all of you for this site. It's literally a treasure trove of info maintained by some amazingly courteous and respectful folks. I've been reading on and off for years so I figured it's time to post.

Got a pair of M50s over the holidays. Also recently jumped from a Sansa Fuze to a Samsung Galaxy Note 2 for my source. I've read a ton about the internal DAC so I know people dig it. I also know many folks don't think the M50s need an external amp. I think I still might want one.

The M50s most definitely need help when listening through a PC and I could use a bit more oomph through the Note 2. Would any of these and/or the sub-$200 models be a good fit for my cans? If I do listen on my work PC and home laptop from time to time should I be looking for a combo amp/DAC? I've been looking hard at the E07. If cash wasn't an issue I'd probably jump right to an O2+ODAC. 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! And ClieOS...well done.


----------



## ClieOS

For sub-$200, I think Leckerton Audio UHA-4 is definitely one of the best amp/DAC comb around. I can't confirm it since I don't have Note 2 but there is a really good chance UHA-4 will work as an external DAC for Note 2 via a USB OTG cable. While E07K is an excellent choice under $100, it isn't quite as good as UHA-4. There is also the possibility that it might not work as external DAC for Note 2 (again, need confirmation).


----------



## jaejw1

first..... darn this thread... made my waller thinner .. love it.. 

this thread helped me choose the Fiio E11 as my choice to pair with my Galaxy S VIBRANT .. using a male to male 3.5mm to supply the connection. There was the mentioned hiss at around volume 5 of 8 with my phone being at 85% full volume,, due to the EMI from texting, calls and updates I broke down and bought a 5th gen ipod classic... 

using the same wire for the connection the EMI was only noticed if my phone was nearby,, but I still had that hiss at volume 5 with the ipod at 85%... 

ENTER THE LOD,,,,, wow.. what a huge difference... I can only listen to my system at volume 3 any higher is too much and its super clean,, absolutely no hiss,, 

has anyone else experienced this with the use of a LOD?.. btw my choice of iem was the monoprice 8320... I have a pair of Sennheiser HD201's that I will use later... but as of now im totally happy with the E11


----------



## ClieOS

I use LOD whenever I can. But lately I am using Nano 7 more and it only has a headphone-out. Good thing the headphone-out is really clean so I just double amp it when needed.


----------



## Evshrug

Jaejw1,
I also love my iPod 5th gen with a LOD. I liked the Senn HD 202 better than the HD201, plus it was more comfortable, but if you already own an HD201... Enjoy it, you know? You'll probably get upgradeitis if you stay on head-Fi, lol.


----------



## jaejw1

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Jaejw1,
> I also love my iPod 5th gen with a LOD. I liked the Senn HD 202 better than the HD201, plus it was more comfortable, but if you already own an HD201... Enjoy it, you know? You'll probably get upgradeitis if you stay on head-Fi, lol.


 
  yes,, at low volume it sounds great,,,, very similar to my monoprice 8320 iem... but at higher volumes it begins to break up... due to the 8320 being inner ears  i never get to those high  "break-up" volumes...   i will try out my monoprice 8323 headphones next,, i think these will be best for more dynamic instrumental music with lots of lows ..
   
  my future pllans are to get CIEM from cosmic ears...  but until then i will continue to be pleased with the performance of my current set up with LOD.. 
   
   
  i listened to Amber Rubarth's binaural album,,, WOW!!!!!!  you truly become the dummy head.. hearing all the ambient noises,, including the noises outside the "church"


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





jaejw1 said:


> first..... darn this thread... made my waller thinner .. love it..
> 
> this thread helped me choose the Fiio E11 as my choice to pair with my Galaxy S VIBRANT .. using a male to male 3.5mm to supply the connection. There was the mentioned hiss at around volume 5 of 8 with my phone being at 85% full volume,, due to the EMI from texting, calls and updates I broke down and bought a 5th gen ipod classic...
> 
> ...


 
  psh poor you, my Hifiman Hm 601 has a LOD 3.5mm jack on it and yea it sounds MEGA clean! I like my Jds cMoy as well for use with my Dt 880 (250 ohms) and the E11 is a nice [but dark] amp. It goes GREAT with Bass Heavy dark or fun cans! But I don't like my E11 with my dt 880... the bass get's too aggressive with way to much decay... but the e11 is a good bass heavy portable amp!


----------



## Evshrug

Mshenay,
Do you still have your bravo V3?
And are you talking about the E11 with the boost active?


----------



## jaejw1

its probably good that im using nuetral earphones then..


----------



## HiFan

This is a nice review. However, I think it is a little strange putting Leckerton products here. On specs (power output), they are designed for low impedance, high sensitivity earphones only......


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





hifan said:


> This is a nice review. However, I think it is a little strange putting Leckerton products here. On specs (power output), they are designed for low impedance, high sensitivity earphones only......


 
   
  Leckerton? That's on the sub$200 shoot-out, not the sub$100 shoot-out here. Also, Leckerton Audio doesn't design amp specific to IEM. They can drive most 150ohm full size just fine. They might however not have enough gain for the really high impedance and low sensitivity headphone, but those headphone are better with full size amp anyway.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Mshenay,
> Do you still have your bravo V3?
> And are you talking about the E11 with the boost active?


 
  I have an indeed G3, and yes I still have it and yes it has more bass boost than my E11 on setting 2!


----------



## mpawluk91

I bought the c&c bh and it blows my brothers e11 to pieces, I really thought the e11 was something until I heard this its crazy


----------



## Makiah S

The what... Ah, yea didn't u guys already know fiio amps r really dark. Lol. Still nice to hear the bass boost is better... Might try it one day...



mpawluk91 said:


> I bought the c&c bh and it blows my brothers e11 to pieces, I really thought the e11 was something until I heard this its crazy


----------



## jaejw1

i have the Fioo E11   and i have yet to use any of the eq settings... im perfectly happy with flat


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





jaejw1 said:


> i have the Fioo E11   and i have yet to use any of the eq settings... im perfectly happy with flat


 
  ooh nice


----------



## jaejw1

Quote: 





mpawluk91 said:


> I bought the c&c bh and it blows my brothers e11 to pieces, I really thought the e11 was something until I heard this its crazy


 
  what is the c&c bh ,,, im new to portable audio and dont know all the names yet


----------



## H20Fidelity

jaejw1 said:


> what is the c&c bh ,,, im new to portable audio and dont know all the names yet




http://www.head-fi.org/t/644363/c-c-bh-portable-headphone-amp-80-hours-from-a-single-charge-buyer-review/1020#post_9201059


----------



## jaejw1

why did i ask....    crap..  time to save up some more money and justify this purchase..    thanks.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  lol


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





jaejw1 said:


> why did i ask....    crap..  time to save up some more money and justify this purchase..    thanks..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  nah if u got an e11 that's plenty. Spend that money on another pair of cans! Unless you like collecting amps [although I can't speak... as I ammusing a collection of hybrid tube amps xD]


----------



## Achmedisdead

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> psh poor you, my Hifiman Hm 601 has a LOD 3.5mm jack on it and yea it sounds MEGA clean! I like my Jds cMoy as well for use with my Dt 880 (250 ohms) and* the E11 is a nice [but dark] amp.* It goes GREAT with Bass Heavy dark or fun cans! But I don't like my E11 with my dt 880... the bass get's too aggressive with way to much decay... but the e11 is a good bass heavy portable amp!


 
  I think people are over-hyping that impression. Read the OP....
   


> Another one issue is on its bass performance – with a slight phase shift in the sub-bass region, E11 has usually perceived to have a richer bass body. Though the FR curve is still linear / flat, the extra bass body often gives people the impression of E11 being dark sound. But A/Bing it against the reference O2 (which is neither particularly bright nor dark), the difference is much small than one might thought.


 
  I feel the same way as ClieOS. I don't find the E11 to have any veiling effect (like I would expect from a truly dark piece of equipment), there's just a very slight low bass bump.


----------



## jaejw1

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> nah if u got an e11 that's plenty. Spend that money on another pair of cans! Unless you like collecting amps [although I can't speak... as I ammusing a collection of hybrid tube amps xD]


 
  i was actually thinking of making this my next purchase...  http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=310-350    i have read reviews that with the use of a better tube the sound is much better.. so for the price it seems to have potential as a table top


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





achmedisdead said:


> I think people are over-hyping that impression. Read the OP....
> 
> I feel the same way as ClieOS. I don't find the E11 to have any veiling effect (like I would expect from a truly dark piece of equipment), there's just a very slight low bass bump.


 
   
  Quote: 





jaejw1 said:


> i was actually thinking of making this my next purchase...  http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=310-350    i have read reviews that with the use of a better tube the sound is much better.. so for the price it seems to have potential as a table top


 
  Nah don't get the Bravo 
   
  Get the Indeed G3 [I have one OR watch the FS forums for a modded Bravo or a Modded Indeed, you cn also get one of these http://www.head-fi.org/t/650018/fs-12au7-starving-student-sold another $100 hybrid tube] But which ever u get {i recommend u buy one used in the FS from some one who already has upgraded the tubes}
   
  In addition I OWN the e11 and to me the E11 sounds DARK. I listen to mine daily! And it's a dark amp imo, the treble is nice good air BUT it's still recessed. That being said I used Bass boost 2 [which is why I bought it] and compared to my Cmoy bb the E11 [at bb2] is much darker than my cmon [with bass boost on] my Fiio E6 was also dark. 
   
  So I stand by my claim, but I should mention DARK with bass boost on [where as other amps solid state and hybrid tube r NOT dark with bass boost on] 
   
  still though I like my e11 <3
   
  But yea get an Indeed G3 and u can use 12ua7 or 6992 tubes <3. I need to actually update my tube now that I think of it e.e


----------



## jaejw1

ok i will look into the indeed g3,,, i have always been interested in the sound of tubes..  thanks


----------



## Achmedisdead

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> In addition I OWN the e11 and to me the E11 sounds DARK. I listen to mine daily! And it's a dark amp imo, the treble is nice good air BUT it's still recessed. That being said I used Bass boost 2 [which is why I bought it] and compared to my Cmoy bb the E11 [at bb2] is much darker than my cmon [with bass boost on] my Fiio E6 was also dark.
> 
> So I stand by my claim, but I should mention DARK with bass boost on [where as other amps solid state and hybrid tube r NOT dark with bass boost on]
> 
> still though I like my e11 <3


 
  OK, with E11's bass boost on 2, sure it sounds dark. But with it turned off, I don't think it is.
  And the E6 with the EQ disabled sounds neutral to me....its EQ settings are too colored to use IMO.


----------



## jaejw1

i prefer flat..  my ipod eq is turned off and the E11 is on "0",,   and im using 7 dollar earphones.. that have no bass (well nothing really low).  im completely happy,, i dont care for EQ bumps..  read in a audio book once (25yrs ago) that "an eq should be used to lower a particular freq not to elevate it", so i have always used that school of thought...


----------



## Makiah S

achmedisdead said:


> OK, with E11's bass boost on 2, sure it sounds dark. But with it turned off, I don't think it is.
> And the E6 with the EQ disabled sounds neutral to me....its EQ settings are too colored to use IMO.


 True, my odac arrived so its time for a proper revist of all 4 of my amps!


----------



## H20Fidelity

achmedisdead said:


> I think people are over-hyping that impression. Read the OP....
> 
> I feel the same way as ClieOS*. I don't find the E11 to have any veiling effect* (like I would expect from a truly dark piece of equipment), there's just a very slight low bass bump.




If you consider dark losing clarity and detail right across the entire frequency range compared to the sources headphone out, sure. The low end on E11 also bleeds fairly heavily using the EQ features which worsens the problem. I found E5 a decent little amp, and during my testing found E5 to retain more clarity than E11 compared to the source it's feeding from. Possibly some people won't ever know what they're missing without experimenting with other amps..

P.S I haven't come in here to stick up or promote C&C BH, it doesn't need any support and is just clearly the cleaner sounding amplifier. All the members who came from E11 are_ really_ happy and can't believe they put up with the other so long, and I say good for them finally experiencing better sound quality. There's members in the C&C BH thread describing E11 as veiled, muddy, boggy, dirty, just like I experienced since changing over.


----------



## ClieOS

E11, as with most of FiiO's amps, measured flat from 20Hz to 20kHz. The only issue with E11, beside minor hissing coming from the MHz switching power section, is that it has a slightly high phase delay on the bass region. This gives listener a bassier, warmer and fuller body feeling - but the truth is, it is still neutral in quantity. You still hear as much bass (and treble) as you should, but the perception of speed (between treble and bass) is a little off and therefore give you the perception that it is not as clear as it should, but they are still all there.
   
  I have not heard any of the C&C, but one needs to look ( / listen) at amp more critically since they can be measured to some standard. Taking iBasso D-ZERO for an example - it does sound really clean, until you take the time to measure it and find out that is is missing a chunk of sub-bass (which is kind of opposite to what E11 does). Sometime things that sounds good to many (i.e. PA2V2 and BitHead / AirHead in my personal experience) can actually be really sub-par in actual measurable performance. It is not to deny that they sound good, but to differentiate what is ear-pleasing and what is performing / missing. These are not always the same thing.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





clieos said:


> . It is not to deny that they sound good, but to differentiate what is ear-pleasing and what is performing / missing. These are not always the same thing.


 
  Indeed, the Hifiman Hm 601 sounds AMAZING and is technically bad lol,
   
  still I like the E11's DARK sound. With bass heavy cans and for EDM it's perfect!


----------



## muddysahil

Which is the best portable amp fpr shure se 215k?


----------



## ClieOS

SE215 (or the K version) doesn't really need amping. Save the money for now and get a good amp when you a better IEM. If you still think you want to try an amp, get the JDS cmoyBB.


----------



## cocolinho

Hey!
  Looking for a portable amp (under $100) to link to my dacport lx, I'm considering Cmoy from fred2004, E11 & C&C BH.
  Where would you put the C&C BH next to those 2 amp?
  I wonder if dacport lx + portable amp would be better than dacport.
  Tx


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





cocolinho said:


> Hey!
> Looking for a portable amp (under $100) to link to my dacport lx, I'm considering Cmoy from fred2004, E11 & C&C BH.
> Where would you put the C&C BH next to those 2 amp?
> I wonder if dacport lx + portable amp would be better than dacport.
> Tx


 
   
  Never listen to the BH before.
   
  I think realistically speaking, I'll spend a bit more than $100 to go with a $250 DAC. A $200 budget will really give you some excellent option. If your budget really is limited to $100, try looking for a 18V cmoy (dual 9V)


----------



## cocolinho

actually I don't have a real budget for it , I can go to $200 if the gap vs the $100 option is significant


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





cocolinho said:


> actually I don't have a real budget for it , I can go to $200 if the gap vs the $100 option is significant


 

 In that case you should go $200. Check out the $200 amp shootout in my signature. If it doesn't have to be portable, O2 is a good choice.


----------



## ElephantAudio

Hi, just find out about Fred's 3 Channel CMOY Amplifiers (http://fredsamplifiers.com.au/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_31), I've been using portable cMoy v2.03 for a while with different IEM and wonder what noticible difference between them  for price:
   
 cMoyBB v2.03 Headphone Amplifier standard: $60USD (must say I've changed OPA 2227 for OPA AD8610)    Fred's 3 Chanel [size=medium]Cmoy LME49720 & LM6171Headphone Amplifier: $98USD + $16 transport [/size] My actual IEM's are HifiMan RE400 (had to close cMoy Bass Bosst on this one) and JVC HA-FXD80-Z (more treble interferance)!


----------



## ClieOS

cmoyBB will sound really good with AD8620 (AD8610 is mono channel), but you need to use 2 9V battery (18V supply) or else AD8620 will be underpowered. However, AD8620 isn't a cheap opamp so at the end it might cost close to Fred's 3 channel amp. I think the overall SQ will actually be quite comparable between the two (cmoyBB-AD8620 vs. 3 channel amp). If you are looking for better bang for buck, I think I'll recommend cmoyBB + AD8620 first. There is however no bad choice between them.


----------



## logicPwn

I enjoy my cMoyBB for use with my Sennheiser PC 360s. I know I need some cans for music but at the moment I am using my gaming headset. Is there much of a use to amp cheaper IEMs? I purchased the Brainwavz M2, just waiting for them to come in.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





logicpwn said:


> I enjoy my cMoyBB for use with my Sennheiser PC 360s. I know I need some cans for music but at the moment I am using my gaming headset. Is there much of a use to amp cheaper IEMs? I purchased the Brainwavz M2, just waiting for them to come in.


 

 I'll say you should save your money to get a nicer pair of headphone first, then worry about amping later.


----------



## logicPwn

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I'll say you should save your money to get a nicer pair of headphone first, then worry about amping later.


 
  I understand that but ATM I own PC 360, brainwavz M2, and the cMoyBB. I just wanted to know if anyone had positive experiences with the M2s and an amp. I am currently in search of what I want out of my music headphones. I NEEDED an amp on my PC 360s for my laptop/iPhone because I couldn't get loud enough volumes without turning up everything near 100%. My laptop integrated puts out more power than my USB Recon3D does, then again my laptop with Beats Audio which I'm almost sure it includes a better amp than most integrated.
   
  I do understand I need better cans before I worry about a GOOD amp and that's why I purchased the cMoyBB instead of the O2+ODAC, leaving room to keep on with my journey for a good music listening experience.


----------



## ClieOS

Personally I'll say not, your M2 doesn't need an amp. It get plenty loud with most source and doesn't improve a lot by amping. Of course, the easiest way to determine is to find out for yourself, since it is on its way to you.


----------



## logicPwn

clieos said:


> Personally I'll say not, your M2 doesn't need an amp. It get plenty loud with most source and doesn't improve a lot by amping. Of course, the easiest way to determine is to find out for yourself, since it is on its way to you.



Yea main thing i thought was that i would be able to bypass the internal amp but it seems like i will be getting a walkman soon


----------



## gopanthersgo1

Heya,
Do you plan on adding the Woodwind to this review?
Very best,
Mark K.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





gopanthersgo1 said:


> Heya,
> Do you plan on adding the Woodwind to this review?
> Very best,
> Mark K.


 
   
  Yes, but only after the final version is out.


----------



## gopanthersgo1

clieos said:


> Yes, but only after the final version is out.


Gotcha, quick question, did you find the the Woodwind to be more intimate, and detailed, but still have more bass and a better soundstage than the E7? I've been hearing the E7 as much smoother, darker, and lusher, while Woodwind is more in your face.


----------



## ClieOS

I have not heard E7 for so time now (mine is long gone). But the difference in SQ is so big between E7 and Woodwind, I really don't think they are comparable directly. Woodwind should easily win out.


----------



## gopanthersgo1

clieos said:


> I have not heard E7 for so time now (mine is long gone). But the difference in SQ is so big between E7 and Woodwind, I really don't think they are comparable directly. Woodwind should easily win out.


I much prefer the woodwind unless I listen and want to sleep or are listening to very euphonic songs.


----------



## pcharouz

FiiO e11 is available at woot.com for 45$, is this a good deal?

Sorry to hijack the thread but would it be a good fit for me with shure e530 and v-moda m80 + iphone 5(flac/alac/320)?


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





pcharouz said:


> FiiO e11 is available at woot.com for 45$, is this a good deal?
> 
> Sorry to hijack the thread but would it be a good fit for me with shure e530 and v-moda m80 + iphone 5(flac/alac/320)?


 
   
  The e11 is a great little amp. Good battery life and quality sound and for $45 that's a steal!
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## pcharouz

Any idea how the SOUND compares to the e17? I could use the dac for my pc as well...


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





pcharouz said:


> Any idea how the SOUND compares to the e17? I could use the dac for my pc as well...


 
   
  SQ is comparable between the two. E17 is slight more balanced though, where E11 tends to feel more bassy.


----------



## TimOgawa

How's the sound if my SE215 use the FiiO RC-SE1 cable and the FiiO E11


----------



## lexxmexx

I kept seeing people mentioning that the Cmoy and A10 sound more musical than the E11. What does that really mean? Does it mean that the sound gets "muffled" to make it less jarring to the ears?

I used to have the E11 but lost it a month later without any good usage. I am hoping to get a new amp for my Brainwavz M4 and Beyer Dtx501p, but contemplating if I should get another E11 or look to other better options in the same price range.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





timogawa said:


> How's the sound if my SE215 use the FiiO RC-SE1 cable and the FiiO E11


 
   
  I don't think SE213 really need amping.
   
  Quote: 





lexxmexx said:


> I kept seeing people mentioning that the Cmoy and A10 sound more musical than the E11. What does that really mean? Does it mean that the sound gets "muffled" to make it less jarring to the ears?
> 
> I used to have the E11 but lost it a month later without any good usage. I am hoping to get a new amp for my Brainwavz M4 and Beyer Dtx501p, but contemplating if I should get another E11 or look to other better options in the same price range.


 
   
  Musical can be slightly different thing to different people. But to me, it incurs a sense of lushness / richness / room-filling of note, de-emphasizing on accuracy and speed ('de-emphasizing' doesn't mean 'don't have', but not something you will notice at first) which can make it sounds more mellow and less aggressive / easier going. it doesn't always mean muffed, but can feel that way if you come from a bright and fast amp.


----------



## calipilot227

It might actually mean the opposite. I found the E11 to be a very warm, dark sounding amp (almost like the PA2V2). I haven't heard the Cmoy, but the E17 sounds much more open with my UM3X, and doesn't hiss as much.
   
  On a side note, the E11/UM3X is actually a terrible pairing, I would not recommend it to anyone. Fine on their own, but pretty bad together.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> It might actually mean the opposite. I found the E11 to be a very warm, dark sounding amp (almost like the PA2V2). I haven't heard the Cmoy, but the E17 sounds much more open with my UM3X, and doesn't hiss as much.
> 
> On a side note, the E11/UM3X is actually a terrible pairing, I would not recommend it to anyone. Fine on their own, but pretty bad together.


 
   
  E11 tends to sound dark to many because its bass has a little bit higher phase, so you perceive more bass (and thus warm) even though quantitatively it is neutral. Personally I won't really call E11 as musical.
   
  PA2V2 is another matter - it is just not nearly as good (audibly and measurement wise) to E11. It is slow and mellow, not much tightness / authority / control to speak of, and thus gives the impression of musicality. That's where many find it charming.


----------



## SerenaxD

Thanks for the awesome review for newbies like me...
  BTW, which amp is the best choice for GR04/GR04FE in your opinion? I've read that those really sound better w/ amping. Would a tube amp be better or would any of the amps you reviewed be more suitable?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





serenaxd said:


> Thanks for the awesome review for newbies like me...
> BTW, which amp is the best choice for GR04/GR04FE in your opinion? I've read that those really sound better w/ amping. Would a tube amp be better or would any of the amps you reviewed be more suitable?


 
   
  GR04 series doesn't need amping. Well, all VSONIC's IEM don't need much amping too. Instead of spending money on amp, the better thing to do is save the money for better IEM. You will notice much obvious improvement that way.


----------



## ClieOS

Updated with addition of BH2 and new remark on 3 Channels Headphone Amp.


----------



## H20Fidelity

Nice one ClieOS, thanks for taking time to do that.


----------



## tan1415

Hi ClieOS,
   
  How does the Venturecraft GD03 copare? I am really impressed with this compared wth the E5.
   
  But i guess i used the E5 wrong. forgot top use a LOD.
   
  Anyway how does teh GD03 compare with the ones you have here at the sub 100range.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





tan1415 said:


> Hi ClieOS,
> 
> How does the Venturecraft GD03 copare? I am really impressed with this compared wth the E5.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Never own an iPhone nor want one, so I have no incentive to try it or know how it sounds. Sorry.


----------



## dragonhf

Hi,

 I´m new here at this forum. Thanks for your nice review.

 I´m thinking to buy a cheap portable amp for using with my iphone 5.
 I want some opinions between these.

 fred_fred_2004 built
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Headphone-amplifier-eclipse-tin-cmoy-RECHARGABLE-audiophile-quality-Black-Ch-/200908741875?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item2ec7181cf3
 I asked him about this one & he replied: [size=10pt]The iphone generates a lot of noise and it can be a problem so bear that in mind IEMs work well with amps but can be very loud and if they are very sensitive they can hiss[/size]. Anyone have some experience using amps with iphone 5?


 FIIO E11
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/FiiO-E11-high-powered-portable-headphone-amplifier-/261239424572?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3cd315463c

 Nuforce MMP

 Or just skip the amps and buy Nuforce NE-700M?

 I don´t have high-end in-ears. I had a pair of Nuforce NE7M which broked down some days ago. For the moment I´m using Bose IE2 & Nocs NS200.

 Thanks for the help.


----------



## ClieOS

My usual advise is, you should upgrade your headphone first before worrying about amping.


----------



## dragonhf

I like the comfort of my Bose IE2, but is lacking bass, so that´s why I´m thinking to buy a cheap amp, it´s kind of cheaper than buy a new in-ear.

 I have a pair of Moshi Vortex on its way.

 But if I insist to buy a Portable amp which of those I mentioned would you guys recommend? I really like the fred_fred_2004 built one with the eclipse mint tin design.


----------



## ClieOS

The easiest thing is to EQ, or at least a bass boosting amp. There is difference between an amp tightening the bass response and actually boosting it. Adding an amp doesn't automatically equals to having more bass.


----------



## dragonhf

I ordered the Fred built one. I know I should go for Fiio E11, but I like mint tin design, very retro 
Tell you guys later if it improves Bose IE2 and Nocs NS200.


----------



## nekromantik

Would a sub $100 amp be worth it for a Zero Audio Basso?
  Was thinking Fiio E07K.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





nekromantik said:


> Would a sub $100 amp be worth it for a Zero Audio Basso?
> Was thinking Fiio E07K.


 
   
  Never listen to Zero Audio Basso before so I am not sure how it will go with amp.


----------



## nekromantik

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Never listen to Zero Audio Basso before so I am not sure how it will go with amp.


 
  Some people think Amp would do it good.
  Is the E07K or E11 good for bassy IEMs?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





nekromantik said:


> Some people think Amp would do it good.
> Is the E07K or E11 good for bassy IEMs?


 

 Sure. E07K's bass boost is more controllable, but E11 sounds better.


----------



## nekromantik

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Sure. E07K's bass boost is more controllable, but E11 sounds better.


 
  Ok thanks


----------



## dasroot

Thank you very much, super useful information for a newbie.


----------



## dragonhf

Thanks ClieOS for your advice for EQ. I bought the Audio Xciter app to my iphone 5, now it sounds a bit better.
 I order The Fred built Eclipse tin amp anyway because it was cheap, it´s always nice to have a new "toy" :-D

 I also listened to your advice and order a better pair of in-ear. I´m waiting for a pair Nuforce NE-700M-SE and a pair of Moshi Vortex.


----------



## dragonhf

I received the Fred built amp today. Unfortunately I have problem with it. First the 3,5mm to 3,5 mm cable is not working.
 Then I have problem with both headphone & input socket. Is like the holes is too big and doesn´t get the contact it need.
 I tried it with both Moshi Vortex & Nocs NS200. When I wooble the headphone jack, it sounds normal in 1-2 seconds.
 If I hold it still downwards it sounds ok again, obviously is something wrong with it. I mean I shouldn´t need to hold the headphone jack down, how can I  have it in my pocket then.
 Lets see what Howard on Freds amp will say about it, I wrote him a mail just now.


 By the way, I test it both with my iphone 5 and Sansa clip.


----------



## ClieOS

It is more likely a cold solder join than a jack problem. Though not always happen, it is a more frequent problem with hand soldered PCB. You might have to send it back in that case. I wonder if Howard can do an one-to-one swap* for you to save some delivery time.
   
  *you sent out yours, give him the tracking for proof and he sent out a replacement unit immediately.


----------



## dragonhf

Howard replied very fast.
 First he offered me to send me 2 new jacks for me to change it. But unfortunately I don´t know how or having friends with the knowledge to do it. So now he is offering me to either get full refund or send a new one.
 I replied him that he can choose what option who suit him best, I can either accept a new one or full refund.
 I must say they have excellent email response and custom service on Freds amp.

 I will update, when I know what he will do next. Thanks for your advice again ClieOS.


----------



## dragonhf

I got full refund from Freds amp. I understand, because if he needs to pay the fee for sending the amp back from Sweden to Australia and then send me a new one, he will lost too much money.
 Nothing bad against them, they have excellent customer service and fantastic email response, so all props to them.
 So my experience with Freds amp is still good,  I was just unlucky and received a faulty one.
 Now you guys know that you can trust Freds amp.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I am not particularly intelligent, so this question is going to cover a wide range of my ignorance.

I'm finally looking for some quality headphones, and I just want to know how these portable amps work. 
1.) Do they hve their own power scource?
2.) Do I have to get a cord seperately to be able to plug it into my iphone?
3.) What benefits does an amp give to the sound in comparison to simply listening with the power from the phone?
4.) Is there any other hardware that I'll need with an amp other than the music source, headphones, and cable?

Danke!


----------



## Evshrug

Pirakaphile,
It's ok! We're all in different steps along our audio journey 

As far as all the cables, they usually include needed ones. 
Portable amps usually include batteries, desktops usually need to be plugged into the wall. ClieOS has here reviewed portable ones.
Amp benefitssss... Controversial? But one thing people can agree on, larger headphones with less sensitivity than earbuds (or more ohms resistance) can sound "loud enough," but they need more power to sound controlled and clear at normal listening volumes. The resolution and detailed texture that you would hear with a nice amp will be a clear benefit... Maybe not "2x as good!" but once you get used to it everything else sounds like crap. How much you "need" to spend is the controversial part, it's really up to you.
Lastly, other hardware... Technically, no, but optionally yes. Say you have an iPhone 4S as your source, and a pair of Beyerdynamic DT880 (32 Ohms version). You'll be able to plug them straight into your phone, and they will sound more than decent, better than the earpods that came with the phone. However, plug something like a FiiO E11 into the phone's headphone jack, then the DT880 into the FiiO amp, you'll notice that you can distinctly hear the bass guitar separately from the lead or rhythm guitar, soundstage will seem to expand so you'll have a better sense of how far away from the mic things are or the room the performance was recorded in, and if you use a $11 line-out adapter (like a FiiO L11) you'll hear slightly better clarity (but you need an amp at that point to control volume anyway)... Basically, when people make the next step you are considering, they almost always say "I'm hearing things in my favourite music that I've never noticed before!" and "I'm rediscovering my music collection!"

Of course, a 600 or maybe even 250 ohm Beyer DT880 might not get loud enough driven off an iPhone...

If you get addicted, you can always spend more money. So, the saying around here for new people is
WELCOME TO HEAD-Fi! Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Well, thanks for all the good advice there! I'm really glad it's all cleared up now. And don't worry about my wallet, I'm a professional hobo.


----------



## RASeymour

Recently received Freds amp and have been enjoying it greatly.  Thanks to ClieOS to again steering us in the right direction.
   
  I tried a few combinations before I settled on one.  They include adding the Digizoid amp in the chain with a Clip+ for a source.  
   
  The Koss KSC-75 sounded good but were a bit maxed out with the Digizoid.  Blox MC2 were best with the Digizoid adding bass.  The best combo was with Beyer 1350.
   
  The amp alone sounded clean and powerful but I thought the Digizoid added a necessary bit of bass boost.
   
  Good service from Freds.


----------



## VXAce

Nice thread again ClieOS, love all your threads. This basically secured Fiio E11's position in my first amp purchase. I want and amp that will go with a Squeezebox Classic that I found in my house. Didn't feel like it was driving my AKG K204 Studios properly, I could be wrong. But it looks like that's what I'm after now, thanks! Thanks for your hard work, I always seem to turn to you when I want to find anything on head-fi.


----------



## ClieOS

Glad to know you find the thread useful.


----------



## gambit50

Thanks for the research ClieOS. Should help choose a portable to help my rubbish, on the go laptop setup.


----------



## s0lar

gambit50 said:


> Thanks for the research ClieOS. Should help choose a portable to help my rubbish, on the go laptop setup.


 
 You will probably get most out of a USB DAC/AMP combo.


----------



## gambit50

s0lar said:


> You will probably get most out of a USB DAC/AMP combo.


 
 A lazy question but but any quick rec that does not require AC power source under 200?
 I will research around as well. Thanks


----------



## s0lar

Many USB DAC devices just work on USB power and also power the amp section of the device.
 Fiio E7 for example.


----------



## Subrising

I'm looking for a portable amp solution that would also be good for using with my desktop as well as I switch from both frequently. I am unsure as to which amp I should be looking at for this. My current headphone and IEM inventory include Audio Technica ATH-ES7, Vsonic GR02 Bass Edition, Hippo VB's, and I'm looking to purchase another set of headphones for around the $150 mark that are definitely not bass shy (currently looking at the Ultrasone DJ1's). Which amp or amp/dac combo would be the best for this for the sub $100 price range? The cheaper the better of course!
  
 Thanks.


----------



## calipilot227

gambit50 said:


> A lazy question but but any quick rec that does not require AC power source under 200?
> I will research around as well. Thanks


 
  
 Fiio E17, much better than the E7.


----------



## shak85

I have recently ordered Pa2v2 and i was wondering , is cmoybb 2.03b really better ? 
  
 My headphones are IEM that have a lot of bass , i use Hippo Vb and Xiaomi IF , vsonic gr02 . I would like to try cmoybb as well but if the differences are minimal and easy to distinguish them i would just stick with pa2v2 .
  
 Which one should have the most SQ for my IEM ?


----------



## ClieOS

If you asked me, there is without any doubt that cmoyBB is better, on both measurement as well as subjective listening. Though, all of you IEM seems to be fairly easy to drive, so I won't say they will hugely benefit from amping.


----------



## duracell071

hey guys, which of the amps in the comparison thread would you think would go best with rha ma750's? thanks


----------



## ClieOS

duracell071 said:


> hey guys, which of the amps in the comparison thread would you think would go best with rha ma750's? thanks


 
  
 MA750 doesn't have a very strong flavor, so most amps will go well with it. The question, do you think you really need an amp for it?


----------



## duracell071

So an update, I tried with my s3 for a few more days and still wasn't happy, kept remembering how much better my 're were with s1 voodoo sound before I lost them over a year or so ago. So I decided to buy a dx50 and it's just so much better, bass is great now especially


----------



## NewWaveAudio

Is there any way you could compare the Auvio amp to the E11


----------



## ClieOS

newwaveaudio said:


> Is there any way you could compare the Auvio amp to the E11


 
  
 Right now, unlikely. Don't forget I am living at the opposite side of the world where Auvio is sold and there is no easy way for me to get one.


----------



## NewWaveAudio

clieos said:


> Right now, unlikely. Don't forget I am living at the opposite side of the world where Auvio is sold and there is no easy way for me to get one.


 Oh, ok. Thanks for responding though


----------



## Nytkim

Hi, have you tried the fiio e10k? Could you add it to the comparison?


----------



## ClieOS

nytkim said:


> Hi, have you tried the fiio e10k? Could you add it to the comparison?


 
  
 E10K isn't portable, so it won't be added to this thread. I'll however write an separated review on it.


----------



## Jakkal

clieos said:


> E10K isn't portable, so it won't be added to this thread. I'll however write an separated review on it.


 
 That is good news. Will you have E11K review as well ClieOS?


----------



## ClieOS

Yes, I will.


----------



## Evshrug

Woohoo!!!


----------



## munggo

@ClieOS  how would you rank the smsl sap4, sap7, and nx1?
 I too will wait for your impressions on the e11k.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Amazing work! Thanks!


----------



## slowpickr

Nuforce MMP is another one to add to the mix.  Sells for $59 and has great reviews on Amazon.


----------



## ClieOS

munggo said:


> @ClieOS  how would you rank the smsl sap4, sap7, and nx1?
> I too will wait for your impressions on the e11k.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can finf my full SMSL review here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/717908/impression-s-m-s-l-sap-4s-and-sap-7
  
 Basically, I'll rank sAp-4s as the same as E5 and sAp-7 the same as E6. They will be added into the list, in time. NX1 is just sAp-4s with gain switch, so there really isn't a lot more I can add to it beside copying from the sAp-4s review.
  


slowpickr said:


> Nuforce MMP is another one to add to the mix.  Sells for $59 and has great reviews on Amazon.


 
  
 You can find my independent MMP review here, with comparison to other amps in the list: http://www.head-fi.org/products/nuforce-mobile-music-pump-mmp-portable-head/reviews/9857
  
 I'll say MMP is right around the same level between E6 and digiZoid ZO2.3. If I have to put it into the list, probably with digiZoid.


----------



## slowpickr

clieos said:


> You can find my independent MMP review here, with comparison to other amps in the list: http://www.head-fi.org/products/nuforce-mobile-music-pump-mmp-portable-head/reviews/9857


 
  
 Thanks!  Didn't know you had already reviewed it.


----------



## Grayson73

clieos said:


> Basically, I'll rank sAp-4s as the same as E5 and sAp-7 the same as E6. They will be added into the list, in time. NX1 is just sAp-4s with gain switch, so there really isn't a lot more I can add to it beside copying from the sAp-4s review.


 
  
 So SAP-4S and NX1 = E5?  Where does the E5 rank?  I didn't see it in the OP.


----------



## ClieOS

grayson73 said:


> So SAP-4S and NX1 = E5?  Where does the E5 rank?  I didn't see it in the OP.


 
  
 Oh, forgot I didn't bother to add E5 into the ranking as it was discontinued back then. It should be the same as E7.


----------



## wigglepuff

has anyone compared both the e11k and cmoybb 2.03?


----------



## ClieOS

wigglepuff said:


> has anyone compared both the e11k and cmoybb 2.03?


 
  
 No contest. E11K is more comparable top sub $200 amps than it is with sub$100 amp, IMO.


----------



## munggo

How's the soundstage and transparency of the e11k?
Looking forward to your review of the e11k!


----------



## ClieOS

munggo said:


> How's the soundstage and transparency of the e11k?
> Looking forward to your review of the e11k!


 
  
 Soundstage: Not the widest of all the portable amps I have heard, but definitely well above average and probably one of the widest soundstage of all portable amps FiiO has made, just under E12DIY.
 Transparency: Mostly transparent with a small hint of warmth. Again, it is probably one of the most transparent portable amps FiiO has made.


----------



## imackler

clieos said:


> Soundstage: Not the widest of all the portable amps I have heard, but definitely well above average and probably one of the widest soundstage of all portable amps FiiO has made, just under E12DIY.
> Transparency: Mostly transparent with a small hint of warmth. Again, it is probably one of the most transparent portable amps FiiO has made.


 
 Wow. That is huge praise. 
  
 ClieOS, do you think there is any reason to get the E11K if you're using the onboard amp on the X5, say with ER4S?


----------



## munggo

clieos said:


> Soundstage: Not the widest of all the portable amps I have heard, but definitely well above average and probably one of the widest soundstage of all portable amps FiiO has made, just under E12DIY.
> Transparency: Mostly transparent with a small hint of warmth. Again, it is probably one of the most transparent portable amps FiiO has made.


 
  
 Awesome! Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Will you be including the e11k to the rankings?
  
 I'm eagerly waiting for them to be sold locally.


----------



## ClieOS

imackler said:


> Wow. That is huge praise.
> 
> ClieOS, do you think there is any reason to get the E11K if you're using the onboard amp on the X5, say with ER4S?


 
  
 For the reason of saving money, then no. X5 can drive ER4S just fine. Though it is not to say that E11K doesn't have better synergy with ER4S.
  


munggo said:


> Awesome! Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, it will. But I have to finish the actual review first.


----------



## slowpickr

Hello all,
  
 I recently acquired a set of Ostry KC06As (16 ohm impedance).  Started noticing background noise out of my Galaxy S4 smartphone.  Did a little experimenting using my Sennheiser HD598s (50 ohm) and came to the conclusion that the background noise is probably due to the low impedance of the Ostry's (the noise disappears using the 598s).  Anyway, I've been using a volume level attenuator to correct the issue with the KC06As.  Question, will a portable amp eliminate the need for an attenuator when using low impedance headphones with the smart phone? Also, been looking hard at the Soundmagic A10 (it was $30 on Amazon recently).  Would it work well with the HD598s?  Or, would it be better to just save up $30 more and get the new Fiio E11k?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

slowpickr said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I recently acquired a set of Ostry KC06As (16 ohm impedance).  Started noticing background noise out of my Galaxy S4 smartphone.  Did a little experimenting using my Sennheiser HD598s (50 ohm) and came to the conclusion that the background noise is probably due to the low impedance of the Ostry's (the noise disappears using the 598s).  Anyway, I've been using a volume level attenuator to correct the issue with the KC06As.  Question, will a portable amp eliminate the need for an attenuator when using low impedance headphones with the smart phone? Also, been looking hard at the Soundmagic A10 (it was $30 on Amazon recently).  Would it work well with the HD598s?  Or, would it be better to just save up $30 more and get the new Fiio E11k?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Whatever hiss there is in the S4 will likely just going to be amplified by an external amp, so it is not a guarantee fix.
  
 Anyway, if you have 'adapt sound' feature turns on in your S4, you might want to disable it. It is known to cause hissing on headphone.


----------



## slowpickr

clieos said:


> Whatever hiss there is in the S4 will likely just going to be amplified by an external amp, so it is not a guarantee fix.
> 
> Anyway, if you have 'adapt sound' feature turns on in your S4, you might want to disable it. It is known to cause hissing on headphone.


 
  
 Thanks for the reply.  I disabled the "adapt sound" feature for music.  Didn't help.  I'm just going to continue using the volume level attenuator.  Will also wait for more feedback on the E11k.  A $30 price difference isn't that much in the whole scheme of things...


----------



## Rawthentik

I'm new to this whole scene and I was wondering if a cmoy amp would properly drive the k612 pro's? I've read they are hard to drive dispite being 120ohms

 I'm an electronics major and was thinking about building my own amp


----------



## ClieOS

rawthentik said:


> I'm new to this whole scene and I was wondering if a cmoy amp would properly drive the k612 pro's? I've read they are hard to drive dispite being 120ohms
> 
> I'm an electronics major and was thinking about building my own amp


 
  
 I'll really suggest you start by this: 3 channels amp and run it on 18V (dual 9V battery)


----------



## Rawthentik

clieos said:


> I'll really suggest you start by this: 3 channels amp and run it on 18V (dual 9V battery)


 
 what about the fiio e10k? people tell me i need a dac since i have realtek 892 onboard audio.


----------



## ClieOS

rawthentik said:


> what about the fiio e10k? people tell me i need a dac since i have realtek 892 onboard audio.


 
  
 Don't really know how good Realtek sounds these days, but E10K is a solid buy.


----------



## Rawthentik

ok i got everything set up and working, i was initially a little disappointed in the e10k, until i remembered the hi gain switch. 

 on low gain i had the volume maxed on my k612's, on high i don't go above 6, usually at 5 or 5.5 notch. (out of 8). 

 bass boost is pretty cool, it doesn't add an exaggerated amount of bass but its easily noticeable and seems clean


----------



## TeddyShot

How does the Fiio E07k compare to the E11k?


----------



## ClieOS

teddyshot said:


> How does the Fiio E07k compare to the E11k?


 
  
 Purely as a portable amp, E07K isn't bad at all - but E11K is just superb. it is about as good as most sub-$200 amps.


----------



## Jupiterknight

clieos said:


> Purely as a portable amp, E07K isn't bad at all - but E11K is just superb. it is about as good as most sub-$200 amps.


 
 Agree.. maybe even a budget version of the Head Stage Arrow. Of course lacking the slim design/battery life/features, but they carry similar sound presentation. Relative neutral, but dialed more towards a warm sounding presentation and a sound stage that satisfies depth, and width quite unique for $60. IMO certainly not a grand step away from the Arrow's. The E11K powers demanding headphones absolutely decent as well, albeit its gain can be too much for some sensitive IEM's


----------



## Elderbear

> I'll really suggest you start by this: 3 channels amp and run it on 18V (dual 9V battery)


 
 I did exactly that, using the DIY kit, and am very pleased with the outcome. I put in one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Aluminum-Project-Box-Enclosure-Case-Electronic-DIY-18-5x45x110mm-/161492609326?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2599b5a92e The LED being blue was a bit bright so swapped that for a red one with a bigger resistor.  Thanks for this fine piece of advice.


----------



## ClieOS

elderbear said:


> I did exactly that, using the DIY kit, and am very pleased with the outcome. I put in one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Aluminum-Project-Box-Enclosure-Case-Electronic-DIY-18-5x45x110mm-/161492609326?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2599b5a92e The LED being blue was a bit bright so swapped that for a red one with a bigger resistor.  Thanks for this fine piece of advice.


----------



## DylanF

Just ordered my 3 channel from AU, http://fredsamplifiers.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=71 , can't wait to get my soldering iron on it.


----------



## sokre

E11K that good?
  
 I have Sennheiser HD600 and Xonar DX.
 My short list for an amp is e11K, e10K and O2 amp only.
  
 Any advice?
 No need for portable amp, but wouldnt hurt.


----------



## ClieOS

sokre said:


> E11K that good?
> 
> I have Sennheiser HD600 and Xonar DX.
> My short list for an amp is e11K, e10K and O2 amp only.
> ...


 
  
 O2 is great, as long as you can bear the size. E10K isn't an amp, nor is it portable. Otherwise E11K is excellent for the price, size as well as its SQ. Not as good as O2, but a lot more practical.


----------



## sokre

clieos said:


> O2 is great, as long as you can bear the size. E10K isn't an amp, nor is it portable. Otherwise E11K is excellent for the price, size as well as its SQ. Not as good as O2, but a lot more practical.


 
  
 Isnt e10k amp&dac?


----------



## ClieOS

sokre said:


> Isnt e10k amp&dac?


 
  
 Yes, but you won't be using your Xonar DX though as it doesn't take any input besides USB.


----------



## Thebb

How would you compare the E11 and the E11K?  I've heard the E11 is actually better than the E11k.  Can someone with more experience on these two amps comment about this? Looking to pull the trigger on either one of these.  Will be pairing with Klipsch X11s at 50 ohms impedance. Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

thebb said:


> How would you compare the E11 and the E11K?  I've heard the E11 is actually better than the E11k.  Can someone with more experience on these two amps comment about this? Looking to pull the trigger on either one of these.  Will be pairing with Klipsch X11s at 50 ohms impedance. Thanks.


 
  
 There is no comparison - E11K is at least a class better than E11. It is more neutral and simply just better sounding overall.


----------



## Thebb

clieos said:


> There is no comparison - E11K is at least a class better than E11. It is more neutral and simply just better sounding overall.


 
 Great!  Thanks for the quick response.


----------



## KraziEarss

Aw amp professionals present!  I must ask here then, I'm purchasing a fiio x1 and have been thinking of pairing it with the e11k (I have gift cards to make this stack rather cheap). What is the highest impredance I can go for future cans with the e11k while still retaining all the SQ I could pull from them.
  
 SIdenote: Also possibly looking at fiio x3, would this be a better unit for my needs (iem listener mostly), as I wont be using dac, only portable at my desk at work and at library but want the power to push cans if I'm at home reading.


----------



## Criss969

Is it worthwhile to go from the E6 to the E11?


----------



## ClieOS

kraziearss said:


> Aw amp professionals present!  I must ask here then, I'm purchasing a fiio x1 and have been thinking of pairing it with the e11k (I have gift cards to make this stack rather cheap). What is the highest impredance I can go for future cans with the e11k while still retaining all the SQ I could pull from them.
> 
> SIdenote: Also possibly looking at fiio x3, would this be a better unit for my needs (iem listener mostly), as I wont be using dac, only portable at my desk at work and at library but want the power to push cans if I'm at home reading.


 
  
 How high an impedance you should go also depends on how sensitive the headphone is and in general, how demanding and responsive the headphone to amping. As a general suggestion, you should stay under 300ohm.
  
 Personally I think X1+E11K can almost rival a standalone X3, but I'll recommend X3 first.
  
  


criss969 said:


> Is it worthwhile to go from the E6 to the E11?


 
  
 Yes, but at this point you should be looking for E11K, not E11.


----------



## KraziEarss

clieos said:


> How high an impedance you should go also depends on how sensitive the headphone is and in general, how demanding and responsive the headphone to amping. As a general suggestion, you should stay under 300ohm.
> 
> Personally I think X1+E11K can almost rival a standalone X3, but I'll recommend X3 first





Ok, your the professional so I'll save a bit more and throw money at the x3! I guess I'll end up spending the same thing but I guess I'm looking at x3 with dac, a function I wouldn't use. Is your suggestion based on sound alone? I've been reading between the two since the 9/20 launch of the X1 and reviewers seem to enjoy the UI, brushed metal finish, and the scroll wheel much better. I hate to be a bother but based on portable music listening alone, is it that much better than x1 and e11k stack?


 Thanks very much for your reply ClieOS 

Happy Listening!


----------



## kiranjoshi7

Hi,
I have ordered fiio x1 and v sonic GR07 IEM.
I have read on headfonia review that x1 sounds far better with amp via line out.
Should I get fiio E11K to be used with GR07? Whether this IEM will be benifited by E11 or it will be overkill?
Or do amp are needed only for higher impedance over ear phones?
Regards,


----------



## Thebb

Hello ClieOS,
  
 Another question.  Should I connect the E11k to my iPhone 5 via the regular 3.5mm jack or should I get the 30-pin adapter and FiiO LOD cable for this?  
  
 Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

thebb said:


> Hello ClieOS,
> 
> Another question.  Should I connect the E11k to my iPhone 5 via the regular 3.5mm jack or should I get the 30-pin adapter and FiiO LOD cable for this?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Can't really give you an precise answer as I don't own an iPhone 5. If its headphone-out is clean enough, then you might not notice much, if any improvement using the 30-pins adapter.


----------



## CrystalT

I need something that can drive AKG K340 vintage. 400 Ohms & 94 dB/mW
  
 I am on a budget and I'm not looking for anything with bells and whistles, really. Just want to be able to use my headphones.


----------



## ClieOS

crystalt said:


> I need something that can drive AKG K340 vintage. 400 Ohms & 94 dB/mW
> 
> I am on a budget and I'm not looking for anything with bells and whistles, really. Just want to be able to use my headphones.


 
  
 If you are keeping the budget under $100, then FiiO E11K might be your best option (provided you have a decent source with good output). Though if you push your budget a bit more, an FiiO E12 will be a better, and likely a safer choice.


----------



## CrystalT

clieos said:


> If you are keeping the budget under $100, then FiiO E11K might be your best option (provided you have a decent source with good output). Though if you push your budget a bit more, an FiiO E12 will be a better, and likely a safer choice.


 
  
 My main sources would be my rooted Note 3 and my iPod Nano g6. With that information, what would you suggest?


----------



## ClieOS

crystalt said:


> My main sources would be my rooted Note 3 and my iPod Nano g6. With that information, what would you suggest?


 
  
 E12 will likely to serve you better, given neither Note 3 nor Nano 6G is known to have high output themselves.


----------



## Currawong

High impedance and low sensitivity = major PITA to drive. I'm not sure a cheap portable amp will go very far with them. You'd be pretty much down to the FiiO and the O2, maybe second-hand.


----------



## waynes world

crystalt said:


> I need something that can drive AKG K340 vintage. 400 Ohms & 94 dB/mW
> 
> I am on a budget and I'm not looking for anything with bells and whistles, really. Just want to be able to use my headphones.


 
  
 I think that ClieOS and Currawong are pointing you in the right direction I think with their E12 recommendation. If the K340's are anything like my K240 Sextetts, then the E12 will push them very nicely.


----------



## CrystalT

waynes world said:


> I think that ClieOS and Currawong are pointing you in the right direction I think with their E12 recommendation. If the K340's are anything like my K240 Sextetts, then the E12 will push them very nicely.




The k340 are electrotet hybrids with 400ohm impedance and are inefficient


----------



## killyridols

clieos said:


>


 
Hello there, ClieOS and everyone!

Got a little question 

Recently i bought *AKG K240 Studio (55ohm, 91 dB/mW)* for mixing purposes etc. I don't have proper amplifier yet. I have two audio interfaces: *M-Audio M-Track (USB)* and* Infrasonic Deux (FireWire)*. Seems like M-Audio's headphone preamp is a total ****, cause when it comes to a deep bass (>40 Hz i presume) my K240's begin to distort and i must turn my volume knob almost at full to get more then average loudness level. Not much of distortion, but still, it is impossible to mix with that. I tried my Infrasonic - and i have much more volume "headroom" and don't get that distortion (but sometimes i do, but it is not a problem for mixing anymore). Seems like Infrasonic's preamp a little bit better. But Infrasonic is more laggy in terms of latency.

So, i can't find headphones preamp specifications for any of these interfaces. That's why i want to purchase HP amplifier. I would like to connect a preamp to M-Audio and then my headphones to preamp. What Output Power is minimum for my K240's? By minimum i mean the minimum when i will not get any distortion and will have a decent amount of volume "headroom".

I was looking at Schiit Magni 2's specs:



> Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.0W RMS per channel


 
Do i need that much for K240? But i think that Magni 2 is a bit expensive for me. I would like to get an amp for 60-80$. So, what's my preferrable Output Power? ))) And what would you recommend to me to buy? Thanks in advance


----------



## ClieOS

killyridols said:


> Hello there, ClieOS and everyone!
> 
> Got a little question
> 
> ...


 
  
 For your application, a desktop amp is probably more suitable, and $99 is actually a pretty good price for desktop amp as most are priced well above $200. Trying to get a really cheap desktop amp might degrade the SQ of your setup rather than improving it, so I won't really recommend it. With Magni 2, at least we know it is fairly well regarded. If you really need to keep the budget low, I'll suggest you start hunting one down in the for sale forum.
  
 How much power you need on the amp depends on the max voltage output of M-Track and Deux, but it is better to have more than comes up short.


----------



## killyridols

Lets presume this specs are true (actually, they are ni a class or a half down than my M-Audio, these specs are from m-audio fast track):


> *Line Outputs*
> 
> Max Output: +2dBV (1.2 Vrms)
> 
> ...


 
 ​Will i be able to use Schiit Magni (not magni 2) with my audio interface?

 Will it be normal or i will just degrade overall quality?


----------



## ClieOS

killyridols said:


> ​Will i be able to use Schiit Magni (not magni 2) with my audio interface?
> 
> Will it be normal or i will just degrade overall quality?


 
  
 Yes.
  
 It shouldn't degrade the SQ.


----------



## killyridols

clieos said:


> Yes.
> 
> It shouldn't degrade the SQ.


 
 I am sorry to bother you that much.
 Is it also true for Fiio E12 and E11K?


----------



## ClieOS

killyridols said:


> I am sorry to bother you that much.
> Is it also true for Fiio E12 and E11K?


 
  
 True, yes, at least technically speaking.


----------



## killyridols

clieos said:


> True, yes, at least technically speaking.


 
 and one more thing ,last one 
 Here are specs of infrasonic
  


> * ANALOG **OUTPUT*  Output type  Balanced line output 1, 2, 3, 4  Connector type  1/4" TRS phone jack  Peak level  +14dBu @ 0dBFS  Attenuation  -48dB ~ + 0dB (0.5dB step size)  Impedance  330 Ohm


 
 Not much as you can see.
 How do you think, will it work good with Magni? ))


----------



## ClieOS

Given none of us can hear infrasonic, it doesn't matter much.


----------



## golov17

crystalt said:


> I need something that can drive AKG K340 vintage. 400 Ohms & 94 dB/mW
> 
> I am on a budget and I'm not looking for anything with bells and whistles, really. Just want to be able to use my headphones.


 coming soon headamp VE Runabout, IMHO


----------



## killyridols

clieos said:


> Given none of us can hear infrasonic, it doesn't matter much.


 
 ahahaha, funny 
 But i mean specs of Inrasonic Deux  my other audio interface


----------



## ClieOS

killyridols said:


> ahahaha, funny
> But i mean specs of Inrasonic Deux  my other audio interface


 
  





  
 Anyway, just look into the Infrasonic audio interface and it seems it only offers balanced output. You will have to confirm this with Schiit's tech support, but I think you need a special (and probably DIY) cable as Magni (as well as most headphone amps) is single ended. The kind of cable you need will either have the negative signal feeds into the ground or left floating, depending on how the amp is implemented.
  
 Or you can feed the Infrasonic headphone-out to Magni - which won't be optimum, but much easier.


----------



## killyridols

clieos said:


> Anyway, just look into the Infrasonic audio interface and it seems it only offers balanced output. You will have to confirm this with Schiit's tech support, but I think you need a special (and probably DIY) cable as Magni (as well as most headphone amps) is single ended. The kind of cable you need will either have the negative signal feeds into the ground or left floating, depending on how the amp is implemented.
> 
> Or you can feed the Infrasonic headphone-out to Magni - which won't be optimum, but much easier.


 
 Well, yeah, they re all balanced. 
 Well, m-audio m-track's outputs are balanced too. but they are separate for left and right channels. Is it good to connect m-track output to magni's input via 2TS - 2RCA cables?


----------



## ClieOS

killyridols said:


> Well, yeah, they re all balanced.
> Well, m-audio m-track's outputs are balanced too. but they are separate for left and right channels. Is it good to connect m-track output to magni's input via 2TS - 2RCA cables?


 
  
 You need something like this:
  


 Balanced (left) -> single ended.
  
 This is assuming both the audio interface as well as Magni can accept negative feeding into ground. You need to confirm this with both companies


----------



## killyridols

clieos said:


> You need something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 well you mean that i need two different cables for left and right channel?
 and what do you mean by single-ended? )))) i am sorry, i am not super good at this. (((


----------



## ClieOS

killyridols said:


> well you mean that i need two different cables for left and right channel?
> and what do you mean by single-ended? )))) i am sorry, i am not super good at this. (((


 
  
 Balanced means the each channel is made up of three separated entities: the positive signal, and its mirror image, the negative signal, plus a ground channel to complete the circuit. Since you have left and right channels, they add up to 6 entities together (though the grounds are shared, so 5 in total actually).
  
 Single ended means the normal way of wiring that you will find on most source, like radio, iPod, etc. It only has a left channel, a right channel, and a shared ground.
  
 Basically that means your audio interface has a different way of outputting signal, and therefore shouldn't be plugged directly into any normal 'single ended' headphone amp without knowing what might happen. If you are lucky, all you need is a custom made cable with the right wiring.
  
 Anyway, just send an email to the manufacturer with this question:
 Audio interface: I have model XXX, I want to connect the balanced line-out to a single ended headphone amp. Is it okay to feed the negative signal to the ground or should I leave it floating?
 amp: I am interested in model XXX, but I am planning to feed it with an audio interface with balanced line-out, Is it okay to feed the negative signal to the ground or should I leave it floating?


----------



## killyridols

clieos said:


> Balanced means the each channel is made up of three separated entities: the positive signal, and its mirror image, the negative signal, plus a ground channel to complete the circuit. Since you have left and right channels, they add up to 6 entities together (though the grounds are shared, so 5 in total actually).
> 
> Single ended means the normal way of wiring that you will find on most source, like radio, iPod, etc. It only has a left channel, a right channel, and a shared ground.
> 
> ...


 
 and if i will just use 2RCA to 2TS i may blow up something ? DD
  
 and i suppose, if i would have audio interface with 2 unbalanced outputs (RCA for example, like on Scarlett 2i4) - it would be ok to just use simple 2RCA-2RCA cables?


----------



## ClieOS

killyridols said:


> and if i will just use 2RCA to 2TS i may blow up something ? DD
> 
> and i suppose, if i would have audio interface with 2 unbalanced outputs (RCA for example, like on Scarlett 2i4) - it would be ok to just use simple 2RCA-2RCA cables?


 
  
 Using a 2RCA to 2TS cable is basically the same as shorting (feeding) negative to the ground. If you are lucky then everything should be fine. If you are unlucky, then something can blow up.
  
 Yes, if it is an unbalanced output (= single ended), then you are fine to just use any RCA cable.


----------



## killyridols

clieos said:


> Using a 2RCA to 2TS cable is basically the same as shorting (feeding) negative to the ground. If you are lucky then everything should be fine. If you are unlucky, then something can blow up.
> 
> Yes, if it is an unbalanced output (= single ended), then you are fine to just use any RCA cable.


 
 whoa, schiit's support answered very quickly.
 here is what they said


> The TS to RCA cable is the correct one for that setup.


 
 Seems like i am lucky today.


----------



## killyridols

clieos said:


> Using a 2RCA to 2TS cable is basically the same as shorting (feeding) negative to the ground. If you are lucky then everything should be fine. If you are unlucky, then something can blow up.
> 
> Yes, if it is an unbalanced output (= single ended), then you are fine to just use any RCA cable.


 
 And also, a little question about Infrasonic interface.
 How do you think, it's balanced outputs, can they be used as left/right outputs, like on m-audio?
 in my PC app for infrasonic here is a symbol of linking volumes between 1 and 2 outputs and between 3 and 4 outputs.

 You can see a green symbol of two chained circles.
 That makes me think that they are actually may function as right and left channel.
 Am i right or am i wrong? DD
 Or is it made for external monitor speakers (which are connected via 2XLR - 1TRS cable) to change volume for different channels of monitors?


----------



## ClieOS

Don't really know much about Infrasonic software to tell you anything (I am using Forcusrite 2i2 myself), though in most case Output 1 is usually the left channel while Output 2 is right channel. The easiest way is just generate a left / right only sound track or mute one channel to check which is which.


----------



## killyridols

clieos said:


> Don't really know much about Infrasonic software to tell you anything (I am using Forcusrite 2i2 myself), though in most case Output 1 is usually the left channel while Output 2 is right channel. The easiest way is just generate a left / right only sound track or mute one channel to check which is which.


 
 Big thanks for all your help, man.
 I ve connected magni and m-audio and seems like everything is working perfectly.

 Now i think about getting new audio interface, but it is another story


----------



## tecno321

I looking for a amp to connect to my xperia z3. I have a piston v3 in-ear actually. In my opinion this bundle sound poor, low definition and low power volume.
 A fiio e11k may be a good option or I need a DAC like a topping nx2?
  
 thanks
 regards


----------



## ClieOS

tecno321 said:


> I looking for a amp to connect to my xperia z3. I have a piston v3 in-ear actually. In my opinion this bundle sound poor, low definition and low power volume.
> A fiio e11k may be a good option or I need a DAC like a topping nx2?
> 
> thanks
> regards


 
  
 I think you should consider upgrading your IEM first. Piston 3 isn't exactly the best sounding IEM of its class and there are some really excellent IEM in the sub$100 category these days.
  
 However, if you do really want to try out an amp, E11K is an excellent choice. NX2 however won't be that great a choice - while it is worth the price as a whole, but noticeably a downgrade from E11K as an amp  and its DAC won't be an upgrade over your Z3's internal DAC either. If you really want an amp+DAC that shows real difference from your smartphone, do prepare to pay over $100.


----------



## NewWaveAudio

I've heard that many people like the original E11 better


----------



## ClieOS

newwaveaudio said:


> I've heard that many people like the original E11 better


 
 I am under the impression that some find E11's bass boost to be better (because it has two settings), but E11k sounds better with a clearer and more neutral presentation, plus a wider soundstage.


----------



## NewWaveAudio

clieos said:


> I am under the impression that some find E11's bass boost to be better (because it has two settings), but E11k sounds better with a clearer and more neutral presentation, plus a wider soundstage.




Depends on if you prefer a darker or brighter sound. I personally like it dark


----------



## ClieOS

newwaveaudio said:


> Depends on if you prefer a darker or brighter sound. I personally like it dark


 

 Unfortunately personal preference can't be easily applied to another person, but spec and measurement can. Since subjectivity is hard to deal with, recommendation should be based on objectivity, or at least I'll like to keep it that way as much as I can in this thread.


----------



## NewWaveAudio

clieos said:


> Unfortunately personal preference can't be easily applied to another person, but spec and measurement can. Since subjectivity is hard to deal with, recommendation should be based on objectivity, or at least I'll like to keep it that way as much as I can in this thread.




Cool. For me specs aren't the most important factor. It's the experience. But specs are the easiest way to compare. When looking at headphones I don't care about what it says on paper or the measurements. Just how they sound. Many of the stuff shown by charts and spec aren't perceivable by humans


----------



## ClieOS

newwaveaudio said:


> Cool. For me specs aren't the most important factor. It's the experience. But specs are the easiest way to compare. When looking at headphones I don't care about what it says on paper or the measurements. Just how they sound. Many of the stuff shown by charts and spec aren't perceivable by humans


 
  
 Well, spec on headphone and spec on amp are rather two different beast in my book. With headphone, spec only tells a small portion of the story. With amp however, spec does reveal much more.


----------



## dino1962

I have the FiiO 11 and have found it to be a great portable amp. It is a little underpowered for very low volume recordings, but that usually only happens on very old first generation cd's in my collection.


----------



## ozrayyau

I like topping nx1 which have 100 hours battery life.


----------



## tecno321

I bought a fiio e11k to use in my Xperia z3. In my opinion the bass is exaggerated and don't sounds very well. I'm disappointed but I will try with others in-ear


----------



## Shawn71

newwaveaudio said:


> I've heard that many people like the original E11 better


 

 I'm one among those b'coz of it's size, replaceable battery,gain/bass switches....and it's sound.


----------



## Blazer39

I'm planing to get Grado sr225e soon, looking for an amp that goes well with Grado sound..perhaps something that will reduce the brightness a little bit and increase the Soundstage
  
 any suggestions?
  
 im currently considering JDS labs cmoy..


----------



## ClieOS

blazer39 said:


> I'm planing to get Grado sr225e soon, looking for an amp that goes well with Grado sound..perhaps something that will reduce the brightness a little bit and increase the Soundstage
> 
> any suggestions?
> 
> im currently considering JDS labs cmoy..


 
  
 Grado stuff is generally very easy to drive and doesn't need extra amping. However, as a general rule of thumb, Grado tends to sound best with tube amp, which mellows out its aggressiveness. That being said, I think C&C BH2 is probably the best amp to pair with a Grado, but it is also getting hard to come by unless you buy one from Taobao. JDS cmoy is okay, but not as good as BH2 as far as synergy is concerned.


----------



## golov17

http://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?spm=0.0.0.0&id=6797369015
C&C bh2


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> http://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?spm=0.0.0.0&id=6797369015
> C&C bh2


 
  
 New old stock. Note that C&C doesn't exist anymore, as far as I know.


----------



## golov17

I bought from this seller earbuds ATH, very good seller, but I did not notice right away C & C, so I do not know whether or not in stock...


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> I bought from this seller earbuds ATH, very good seller, but I did not notice right away C & C, so I do not know whether or not in stock...


 
  
 That seller is fairly reputable in China as it is a legit store in Shanghai, but also known for lousy after-sale service from time to time.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> That seller is fairly reputable in China as it is a legit store in Shanghai, but also known for lousy after-sale service from time to time.


who is without sin, lol


----------



## Eguardos

Can someone give some info about the fiio k1 and creative e1? If it means alot, ill be using it with a smartphone to drive a low impedence pair of vmoda over ears (lp2) pretty bass heavy, so if either would better bring forward the mids id appreciate that


----------



## ClieOS

eguardos said:


> Can someone give some info about the fiio k1 and creative e1? If it means alot, ill be using it with a smartphone to drive a low impedence pair of vmoda over ears (lp2) pretty bass heavy, so if either would better bring forward the mids id appreciate that


 
  
 K1 is a pure USB DAC/amp but not a standalone amp, so it must be used with a smartphone that supports USB DAC (or with a PC). E1 is a bit more versatile and can be used as either USB DAC or a standalone amp . As far as features go, E1 also has more. As far as overall SQ goes, they are really in the same ballpark - more in the entry level and nothing that will blow your mind away. LP2 isn't hard to drive so both should do the job just fine.
  
 As far as bring the mid forward, better just do it with EQ.


----------



## Blazer39

clieos said:


> Grado stuff is generally very easy to drive and doesn't need extra amping. However, as a general rule of thumb, Grado tends to sound best with tube amp, which mellows out its aggressiveness. That being said, I think C&C BH2 is probably the best amp to pair with a Grado, but it is also getting hard to come by unless you buy one from Taobao. JDS cmoy is okay, but not as good as BH2 as far as synergy is concerned.


 

 what makes BH2 have good synergy with grados?!!
  
 im still looking for an amp, but i always remembered this post about their synergy..can you please explain in more details?!
  
 isn't BH2 a kinda bright sounding amp which could be bad synergy with already bit bright Grados?


----------



## ClieOS

blazer39 said:


> what makes BH2 have good synergy with grados?!!
> 
> im still looking for an amp, but i always remembered this post about their synergy..can you please explain in more details?!
> 
> isn't BH2 a kinda bright sounding amp which could be bad synergy with already bit bright Grados?


 
  
 Because BH2 has a mellow and musical tone, which is usually the kind of sound signature that goes well with Grado...and no, I don't find BH2 bright at all.


----------



## golov17

http://m.shenzhenaudio.com/c-c-bh2-portable-headphone-amplifier-battery-amplifier.html

Really good small amp


----------



## thingol

I hope its not a repost, but what do you guys think about Lars & Ivan (and mostly about HA-1?)?
  
 I am planning to buy an entry-level mobile amp (~50$), at the moment I like the Soundmagic A10 and Lars & Ivan HA-1 the most: but I am very new to the amps and not sure about my decision.
  
 Thank you guys for help!


----------



## ClieOS

thingol said:


> I hope its not a repost, but what do you guys think about Lars & Ivan (and mostly about HA-1?)?
> 
> I am planning to buy an entry-level mobile amp (~50$), at the moment I like the Soundmagic A10 and* Lars & Ivan HA-1* the most: but I am very new to the amps and not sure about my decision.
> 
> Thank you guys for help!


 
  
 I wonder if they did actually design the amp themselves or they just got it from some Chinese OEM. Saw it being branded as Trekstor in China almost a year ago and sold for $30.


----------



## tripside

@ClieOS Do your recommendations still stand OR are there new entrants that have caught your eye? I've seen quite a few users touting Xduoo xduoo xq-10, SMSL SAP 7 and Topping NX1/2.
 How do these stack against the amp mentioned by you in your post? Lastly, I also see quite few versions of cmoy amp floating around. The offerings from JDS Labs, Lucid Labs and MayFlower Electronics seems to be the most popular. Do you these there will be a noticeable difference in the ouput of these amps?


----------



## ClieOS

tripside said:


> @ClieOS Do your recommendations still stand OR are there new entrants that have caught your eye? I've seen quite a few users touting Xduoo xduoo xq-10, SMSL SAP 7 and Topping NX1/2.
> How do these stack against the amp mentioned by you in your post? Lastly, I also see quite few versions of cmoy amp floating around. The offerings from JDS Labs, Lucid Labs and MayFlower Electronics seems to be the most popular. Do you these there will be a noticeable difference in the ouput of these amps?


 
  


clieos said:


> You can finf my full SMSL review here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/717908/impression-s-m-s-l-sap-4s-and-sap-7
> 
> Basically, I'll rank sAp-4s as the same as E5 and sAp-7 the same as E6. They will be added into the list, in time. NX1 is just sAp-4s with gain switch, so there really isn't a lot more I can add to it beside copying from the sAp-4s review.


 
  
 Can't comment on XDuoo since I have not heard it.
  
 As for cmoy, I know I can recommend JDS because they have solid engineering and excellent customer service. Don't really know about the other two.


----------



## Fabi

Hi @ClieOS
  
 I can see you have the VE RunAbout.
 I am interested to know your thoughts on it compared with the other sub 100$ portable amps you have.
 Starting myself to have interest in portable amps with 9V batteries, I have a RunAbout Plus on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I have to admit the Corda Quickstep is very appealing (size, sq) but almost 4 times more expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe for later...
  
 Btw, thank you for all your contribution so far !


----------



## ClieOS

fabi said:


> Hi @ClieOS
> 
> I can see you have the VE RunAbout.
> I am interested to know your thoughts on it compared with the other sub 100$ portable amps you have.
> ...


 
  
 RunAbout is a very solid portable amp that has no problem beating most, if not all sub-$100 amp, though probably not going to top the $200 category. QuickStep will indeed be an even better amp to have and should easily be one of the best of any price range.


----------



## Fabi

clieos said:


> RunAbout is a very solid portable amp that has no problem beating most, if not all sub-$100 amp, though probably not going to top the $200 category. QuickStep will indeed be an even better amp to have and should easily be one of the best of any price range.


Thank you very much for the input. 
Sure the RA can't be as good as the top sub-$200 amps but it will probably be enough for my needs (size, power, removable 9V battery, SQ) , we'll see, it's my first portable amp


----------



## vinpin

Great comparison!


----------



## stevemoore

Thanks for the review. I'm looking for a new amp.


----------



## golov17

http://bengkelmacro.com/


----------



## TeeEl

This is probably a stupid question...
  
 do I need an amp?
  
 The reason I ask is that I've seen about 50% of posts/articles saying yes...  and 50% saying no.  (Or, specifically, not unless your source isn't able to drive the volume enough.)  Some reviews state that IEMs perform better with an amp (even sub $20 IEMs), some reviews don't even mention them.  As I'm just officially entering the HiFi world I find this to be far more confusing than anything else I've looked into so far.
  
 So I guess the better question is, how do I know whether or not I need an amp?  (Keeping in mind I use IEMs 99.99% of the time.)


----------



## Fabi

teeel said:


> This is probably a stupid question...
> 
> do I need an amp?
> 
> ...


 
 What IEMs do you have?


----------



## TeeEl

fabi said:


> What IEMs do you have?


 
 Nothing overly fancy, just the 1MORE E1001s.  If I get an amp though I would be testing it with whatever IEMs I have lying around, just for ****s and giggles.


----------



## Fabi

teeel said:


> Nothing overly fancy, just the 1MORE E1001s.  If I get an amp though I would be testing it with whatever IEMs I have lying around, just for ****s and giggles.


 
 I guess you don't need an amp if your source has enough power to make them shine.
  
 You're right, if you're curious and have the money, you can get an amp to try different stuff, hear different sound colorations and different pairings with cans and sources you encounter, to know better what your preference is.


----------



## TeeEl

fabi said:


> I guess you don't need an amp if your source has enough power to make them shine.
> 
> You're right, if you're curious and have the money, you can get an amp to try different stuff, hear different sound colorations and different pairings with cans and sources you encounter, to know better what your preference is.


 
 Thanks!  My source will most likely be a FiiO X1 (which I'll try to fill up with lossless rips of my favorite CDs).  I was looking at the FiiO A5 and came across the A3...  but I wanted to see if either of these would even be worth it in the first place.


----------



## Fabi

teeel said:


> Thanks!  My source will most likely be a FiiO X1 (which I'll try to fill up with lossless rips of my favorite CDs).  I was looking at the FiiO A5 and came across the A3...  but I wanted to see if either of these would even be worth it in the first place.


 
 Fiio A5 has good reputation, so as Fiio X1 line out. 2 good products.
 Also that you may be able to hear the true potential of your iems with a bit more and "good" power.
  
 Sorry for your wallet my friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, don't forget to get a good interconnect, good eartips, a leather case, 128gm micro sd, etc hahaha


----------



## TeeEl

fabi said:


> Fiio A5 has good reputation, so as Fiio X1 line out. 2 good products.
> Also that you may be able to hear the true potential of your iems with a bit more and "good" power.
> 
> Sorry for your wallet my friend
> ...


 
 Hahah.  Thanks.  I have a few smaller spare MicroSDs I was going to start with, until they were full.  (I know lossless will eat up the space quickly though.)  I was also looking at Comply tips but was going to wait to see how they fit and seal was with the stock tips.  I mean, it comes with a staggering 9 sets of tips!  The case for the 1MOREs looks pretty solid, but you're right, I would need one for the X1.  Though mostly it'll stay at work as that's there the vast majority of my listening happens.


----------



## Fabi

Yep, take your time. The journey will be more pleasant.


----------



## TeeEl

fabi said:


> Yep, take your time. The journey will more pleasant.




I'm just grateful that I don't have more money or I'd be blowing it all on new equipment.


----------



## ClieOS

X1 has more than enough output to drive 95% of all IEM out there to good performance, so no, you don't need an amp now. Instead, save the money for even better source that has a really good headphone-out, then you know you don't need an extra amp around.


----------



## TeeEl

clieos said:


> X1 has more than enough output to drive 95% of all IEM out there to good performance, so no, you don't need an amp now. Instead, save the money for even better source that has a really good headphone-out, then you know you don't need an extra amp around.


 
 Thanks!  I was looking at the X3 as well, since it's just $70 more... but at what point do I stop the "it's just a little bit more"?  What are other good portable lossless media players?  By which I mean, ones that won't make me weep whenever I look at my bank statement.


----------



## ClieOS

teeel said:


> Thanks!  I was looking at the X3 as well, since it's just $70 more... but at what point do I stop the "it's just a little bit more"?  What are other good portable lossless media players?  By which I mean, ones that won't make me weep whenever I look at my bank statement.


 
  
 That obviously depends on where you drew the line between 'still-worth-it' and 'enough-is-enough', and we all drew that line differently. Some people can settle for X1-Ii, while other won't want anything less than X5iii.I am myself more of the later, and I can't the same can apply to others.


----------



## TeeEl

clieos said:


> That obviously depends on where you drew the line between 'still-worth-it' and 'enough-is-enough', and we all drew that line differently. Some people can settle for X1-Ii, while other won't want anything less than X5iii.I am myself more of the later, and I can't the same can apply to others.


 
 Fair enough.  I don't tend to jump in too deep before I know I can swim, hence only looking at the X1 and X3 to start.


----------



## golov17

teeel said:


> Fair enough.  I don't tend to jump in too deep before I know I can swim, hence only looking at the X1 and X3 to start.


search Shanling m2 too..


----------



## TeeEl

golov17 said:


> search Shanling m2 too..


 
 Thanks!  Also looking at the xDuoo X3 and X10 now too.  So many options!


----------



## golov17

teeel said:


> Thanks!  Also looking at the xDuoo X3 and X10 now too.  So many options!


yep.. Cayin n3, Shozy Alien Plus, Hidizs AP200 etc...


----------



## TeeEl

golov17 said:


> yep.. Cayin n3, Shozy Alien Plus, Hidizs AP200 etc...


 
 Amazon doesn't seem to have most of those, but at least that gives me an idea of what to look at.  Thanks again!


----------



## bobbypete

hey guys i am looking for a portable amp just for bass boosting.  the fiio e17k is the best one i could find with its 10db bass boost.  are there any others, i want to spend less than $125usd


----------



## zazaboy (Mar 10, 2018)

guys I want to buy sabaj da2 or sabaj da3 ... I need more volume from android lollipop android system...  can I  get more volume boost from these sabaj da2/da3 ... what to do you think guys... I suffer from very low volume at some iems... I want to boost the volume to serious levels


----------



## Ynot1

Anyone notice that there are new names popping up all over the place on Aliexpress. Haafee SaoMai HA6, HA9, HA10, HA11? AIYIMA?, Neoteck?
​


----------

