# iPhone 5 Line out?



## throzen0303

The new iPhone 5 will be announced in less than 2 hours, if the lightning port is replacing the 30-pin connector now, 
  how would the LOD look or is it even possible to make LOD anymore?


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## Vibemerchant

Bit hard to tell if nobody knows the specifications of the new connector yet. As far as I can tell there were no connector-leaks, other then simply the change in size (which doesn't exclude a LOD)


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## oldskoolboarder

Looks like LOD is gone.  If so, that sucks.  Even video out is gone.
   
  http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-57511687-256/apples-dock-connector-change-is-awful-dont-kid-yourselves/


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## SoulSyde

Quote: 





throzen0303 said:


> The new iPhone 5 will be announced in less than 2 hours, if the lightning port is replacing the 30-pin connector now,
> how would the LOD look or is it even possible to make LOD anymore?


 
   
  Since there is an EOM adapter to convert from 30-pin to the new Lightning port I would assume that an aftermarket Lightning LOD will be a short matter of time.
   
  See: http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phone-and-smart/apple-lightning-to-30/4505-6448_7-35446290.html


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## bowei006

The new plugs were said to be fully digital >_< . I'll hope that person just said it by accident, if it was fully digital then we wouldn't and seriously looking at it, I think it's gone, why would Apple have a seperate connector on the new switches just for audio? Very few people would hhave a use for it like that. BUT then again, there are docks that B and W are using that plug in directly
  
 so it is still unknown if the new very small pluggs will support analog out from the DAC, depending on how you analyze it as I have said above, it could or couldn't have it. Let's await more details
  
 Now the new earphons the earpods look interesting, the back ports were said to increase bass and side ones to increase vocal performance as Apple said more air = better performance. Just paraphrasing here, they would be nice to get a hold of and try as those earpods would probably be everywhere in a few years, so if the performance is good then hey, why not. The stock apple earbuds can already be said to be decent, lifeless and harsh, but "flatter" than many other paid earphones and not to mention they are stock free and worldwide iconic.


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## fuzzyash

i think the plugs are digital only...
  "The fact that the Lightning port uses eight purely digital pins calls into question whether the Lightning adapter would actually work with many cars' existing iPod or even USB ports"
  "Lightning does not have the capability to send an analog signal"
  from http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-57511834-48/iphone-5-new-ipod-may-leave-some-cars-in-the-dust/
   
  i think this pretty much seals the deal for the LOD then?
   
  if there is no way for line out, amps would have to use the headphone out for the new apple products?


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## justin w.

Quote: 





fuzzyash said:


> if there is no way for line out, amps would have to use the headphone out for the new apple products?


 
   
  which is probably the exact same thing, anyway.  Apple has no reason to spend the $$ or the board space for separate headphone out and line out circuits.


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## moodyrn

Well, they are not the same on my iphone 4. I get distortion when ever I used the headphone out of my iphone, a good amount of it at that. I have to lower the volume for it to go away. But then the signal isn't as loud as it is from the lineout, and still doesn't sound quiet as clean. So there definitely some sort of amplification going on. It may not be much, but it's enough to distort the signal.


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## justin w.

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Well, they are not the same on my iphone 4. I get distortion when ever I used the headphone out of my iphone, a good amount of it at that. I have to lower the volume for it to go away. But then the signal isn't as loud as it is from the lineout, and still doesn't sound quiet as clean. So there definitely some sort of amplification going on. It may not be much, but it's enough to distort the signal.


 
   
  have you connected your headphone directly to the line output?


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## PChoon

guys i think you can take a look at this...
   
http://networkedblogs.com/C5ixh
   
  for better or worse???


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## moodyrn

Quote: 





justin w. said:


> have you connected your headphone directly to the line output?


 

 No, and I never care to. But like I said, I have compared both the headphone out and lineout with every portable amp I ever had, and the results are the same everytime. So why would I connect a headphone to the lineout anyway.  All I'm saying is that the lineout and headphone amp in my iphone 4 is not the same. And you don't have to go back and forth between the two to notice it. It's apparent "to me" as soon as you plug the line in cable to the headphone jack. The distortion is pretty obvious. Only after lowering the volume does the distortion go away. It's the same with both of my ipads(gen 1 and 3).


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## fuzzyash

Quote: 





pchoon said:


> guys i think you can take a look at this...
> 
> http://networkedblogs.com/C5ixh
> 
> for better or worse???


 
  what im getting from this is that they're making line-out cable but they have to be authorized...
  so no DIY for now


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## oldskoolboarder

Almost sounds like for new iDevices using Lightning, any outboard amp would pretty much have to be a DAC now.  Plus there'd have to be some config on the iDevices to output the audio via Lightning so a DAC would work properly.  It would have to work like your Mac/PC when it recognizes a USB DAC is connected to it.


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## oldskoolboarder

There's still hope.
   
  http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/13/3329062/apple-lightning-hdmi-vga-cable-adapter-coming-months


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## grokit

I had a feeling HDMI audio would be part of this new standard...


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## fuzzyash

so essentially, attach the $30 adapter then hook up the LOD to it, which uses the DAC in that adapter?


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## bowei006

There are MANY different conjectures right now on what is happening.
   

 The pins are all said to be digital signals, and thus even with the adapter, Analog audio out form DAC won't work anymore
 The pins were said to be digital but it allows for FULL function of what Apple had before, analgo out will work form DAC out, same situation as before.
 The pins are all said to be digital signals, all audio products using a dock will be using DAC's in them as well now and companies like FiiO can just go and make one
 The pins are all said to be digital signals, all audio products using a dock will be using DAC's that are officially lisenced with Apple as they have been. Current DAC bypass products need to get Apple's approval and "decryption" use code (not yet sure if there is one) to use the DAC and thus we are back to step 1 of affordable companies not being able to get the lsience for it.


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## sygyzy

If you want line out, just use the adapter which has a built in DAC. You will get an analog signal.


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## weitn

Quote: 





sygyzy said:


> If you want line out, just use the adapter which has a built in DAC. You will get an analog signal.


 
   
  That DAC adapter will make my mobile audio solution bulky!


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## weitn

This is not good! Will see how things go (solutions for audio from the new adapter) before I upgrade my iPhone 4s to iPhone 5.


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## Stoney

I use an Arrow as pure analog, and sounds better than my E7.  But, it might be possible for the E7, or E17, or similar device to pull digital from the Lightning and give us good sound for money.  I'll wait for details and products to be announced.  I'm sticking with 4S until at least the 5S.


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## Stoney

From http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/13/3329062/apple-lightning-hdmi-vga-cable-adapter-coming-months :
   
  "Still, Apple says the 30-pin adapter does support analog audio out, as well as USB audio, syncing, and charging."
   
  If this is true, then said adapter has to contain a DAC.  That's interesting.....


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## PChoon

Quote: 





fuzzyash said:


> what im getting from this is that they're making line-out cable but they have to be authorized...
> so no DIY for now


 
  Yup... its says the specs of the Lighting port is all digital IO... no more analogue... our rig is gonna be bigger...
  but it can also be a good thing... more companies make DAC for iDevices price maybe would be at our advantage?


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## Stoney

My hunch was right: From MacWorld: 
   
   
  Apple has confirmed to _Macworld_ that these adapters support analog and USB audio-out, as well as syncing and charging. However, the adapters don’t support video-out or iPod mode, the latter a special mode that lets particular accessories, such as car stereos and some whole-home-audio systems, display your iPod’s menus on the accessory’s own screen. More cryptically, the online Apple Store’s product pages note that “some 30-pin accessories are not supported.”
   
  Astute readers may have noticed that the Lightning connector does not support analog audio-out, but the 30-pin adapters do. That’s because hidden away inside each 30-pin adapter is a digital-to-analog converter (DAC) that converts the Lightning connector’s digital audio signal to an analog version. (The inclusion of a DAC explains at least part of the price of the adapters.)

  So, we can use analog-only amps with iPhone 5 right now (it seems) if we get one of the adapters.  To avoid stress on the lightning connector in the phone, I'd use the adapter with 20cm of cable.


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## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





stoney said:


> My hunch was right: From MacWorld:
> 
> 
> Apple has confirmed to _Macworld_ that these adapters support analog and USB audio-out, as well as syncing and charging. However, the adapters don’t support video-out or iPod mode, the latter a special mode that lets particular accessories, such as car stereos and some whole-home-audio systems, display your iPod’s menus on the accessory’s own screen. More cryptically, the online Apple Store’s product pages note that “some 30-pin accessories are not supported.”
> ...


 
   
  The question is the sound quality of the adapter, cause the size is quite small size and the price ( $29) is quite low.


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## Stoney

Yes.  I can only hope it at least matches the iPhone and iPad, each with its own virtues.  I find the 4s to be solid sounding, well-defined and extended, but a bit low on ease and grace, and the soundstage is a bit closed in.  The iPad 3 has a lovely openness and wider soundstage, but the bass and treble are less well controlled.  Tonality or is more natural and response is flatter/smoother in a head-to-head.  
   
  I hope someone at Apple is tracking these changes and has implemented something even better.  Cost for the units in those products is probably not very high, so I hope the adapter is not a compromise.  
   
  I'm sticking with 4s for now, so I'll have time to read reviews.


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## bowei006

We are still left with little option of anything. And it seems this time around, we have even been given less now that we need that adapter to even use an LOD but then as James pointed out, the whole adapter is only $29, it obviously won't have the iPhone 5's probably good DAC.


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## fuzzyash

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> We are still left with little option of anything. And it seems this time around, we have even been given less now that we need that adapter to even use an LOD but then as James pointed out, the whole adapter is only $29, it obviously won't have the iPhone 5's probably good DAC.


 
  we dont really know how much the DAC in that adapter costs, it may on par or even better
  looking at the general cost to make the iphone 4s, i doubt the DAC alone costs $30
http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone-4S-Carries-BOM-of-$188,-IHS-iSuppli-Teardown-Analysis-Reveals.aspx


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## bowei006

Quote: 





fuzzyash said:


> we dont really know how much the DAC in that adapter costs, it may on par or even better
> looking at the general cost to make the iphone 4s, i doubt the DAC alone costs $30
> http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone-4S-Carries-BOM-of-$188,-IHS-iSuppli-Teardown-Analysis-Reveals.aspx


 
  Yeah we are just assuming, heck it could be like Nwavguy's simple but working designs but also remember that Apple is working with Cirrus Logic on custom chips at MASSIVE quantities on a board that uses the most statte of the art equipemtn to further reduce costs and to be as efficent in making them as possible


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## justin w.

i dont see that this means the adapter contains a DAC.  it is possible that 2 of the lightning connector's pins are switched over to provide the analog audio output, when the 30-pin adapter is present.  that would certainly be cheaper for Apple.  we will find out soon.


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## 563

When the dust settles, it would be great to know whether the CLAS will work with this new line out (with the apple or other adapter).  If it would, it would be great for someone to develop a sleeve-like adapter to fit exactly (or as close to exactly as possible) over the existing 30-pin plugs so that the whole contraption will remain essentially the same size/length as the existing LOD cables.  (I'm not sure that what I just asked makes sense) - basically, a "slip-on" adapter, I guess to go from 30 to the new pin configuration, or vice versa ...


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## SoulSyde

Ugh:
   
  http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/09/apple-lightning-bmw-mini/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Top+Stories%29


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## Stoney

There will be new adapters from Apple in a couple of months that will bring out VGA and HDMI.  I hope that helps for car adapters.


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## jseaber

Quote: 





stoney said:


> My hunch was right: From MacWorld:
> 
> 
> Apple has confirmed to _Macworld_ that these adapters support analog and USB audio-out, as well as syncing and charging. However, the adapters don’t support video-out or iPod mode, the latter a special mode that lets particular accessories, such as car stereos and some whole-home-audio systems, display your iPod’s menus on the accessory’s own screen. More cryptically, the online Apple Store’s product pages note that “some 30-pin accessories are not supported.”
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> The question is the sound quality of the adapter, cause the size is quite small size and the price ( $29) is quite low.


 
   
  Feiao sums this up well. I'm eager to get my hands on one of these $29 adapters, just to tear it apart.


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## Stoney

The iPhone 5 appears to be quite a hit, so I'd expect products that optimize the D/A in the coming mo, er, year.  
   
  In the meantime, we might have sound quality posts by the end of the month, or whenever the first shipments arrive or reviewers chime in.


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## bowei006

Quote: 





stoney said:


> The iPhone 5 appears to be quite a hit, so I'd expect products that optimize the D/A in the coming mo, er, year.
> 
> In the meantime, we might have sound quality posts by the end of the month, or whenever the first shipments arrive or reviewers chime in.


 
  Or maybe Cypher labs or Fostex will release an "audio adapter" for only LOD purposes where they give you an adapter will a well intergrated DAC and that is small enough and what not to not be intrusive while on the go, because we totally need a 5 inch daisy chain hanging off an iPhone right?


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## Stoney

Hope so!


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## wilzc

if the lightning only draws digital out.
   
  then most portable DACs could work???
   
  same goes to the CLAS/HP-P1/GoDAP


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## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





wilzc said:


> if the lightning only draws digital out.
> 
> then most portable DACs could work???
> 
> same goes to the CLAS/HP-P1/GoDAP


 
   
  The question is that none can confirmed what kind of digital out , USB? SPDIF? Apple love to use their own standard so they can charge more money.


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## wilzc

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> The question is that none can confirmed what kind of digital out , USB? SPDIF? Apple love to use their own standard so they can charge more money.


 
   
   
  I understand. Here's to hoping!!!
   
  Your E7/E17 will be immense if its USB digital out!! And I sure hope it is!!!


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## JamesFiiO

I think Apple will not let the new lightning connector supports universal standard like USB audio/ SPDIF.  
   
  BTW, just learned more information from internet, seems the lightning to 30pin adapter will has a build in DAC chip inside. not sure about the sound quality, but it make thing worse because
   
  it is not easy to fixed the adapter between the iPhone/iPod and portable amp and the line out cable.


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## fuzzyash

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> I think Apple will not let the new lightning connector supports universal standard like USB audio/ SPDIF.
> 
> BTW, just learned more information from internet, seems the lightning to 30pin adapter will has a build in DAC chip inside. not sure about the sound quality, but it make thing worse because
> 
> it is not easy to fixed the adapter between the iPhone/iPod and portable amp and the line out cable.


 
   
  ...fiio can hopefully make a better adapter!


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## wilzc

Our hope then lies on you to crack the code Fei!!!


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## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





fuzzyash said:


> ...fiio can hopefully make a better adapter!


 
   






 Apple don't like Chinese brand, even we will like to pay 100% licence fee. they trend to believe that every Chinese company will lie about the quantity they sold. 
   
  without the licence , we can't purchase the secret chip from Apple that means we can't develop it.


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## Dyaems

apple dont like chinese brand, but their apple devices are made.. . err, assembled in china, right? haha


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## jseaber

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Apple don't like Chinese brand, even we will like to pay 100% licence fee. they trend to believe that every Chinese company will lie about the quantity they sold.
> 
> without the licence , we can't purchase the secret chip from Apple that means we can't develop it.


 
   
  The development incentives aren't promising even for US companies:
http://www.myidea.me/index.php/inventing-resources-guides-and-tips/engineering/14-apple-mfi-certification-program-help
   
  Apple reserves the right to force developers into super long prototyping cycles, which easily deplete small project budgets. It's no wonder the Solo carries a $580 pricetag. If Apple can accomplish the same task at $29, it's a shame the barriers of entry are so high for eager developers.


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## justin w.

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> The development incentives aren't promising even for US companies:
> http://www.myidea.me/index.php/inventing-resources-guides-and-tips/engineering/14-apple-mfi-certification-program-help
> 
> Apple reserves the right to force developers into super long prototyping cycles, which easily deplete small project budgets. It's no wonder the Solo carries a $580 pricetag. If Apple can accomplish the same task at $29, it's a shame the barriers of entry are so high for eager developers.


 
   
  actually, if the adapters on eBay are really the same hardware, they're doing it for $10


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## glamrox

I for one have been worried about this since I preordered my iPhone 5, but the only 30-pin accessories I have are the dock to my Yamaha Receiver and Logitech speakers I use occasionally. Not a deal breaker for me but I'm hoping Yamaha updates their dock soon.


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## fuzzyash

Quote: 





justin w. said:


> actually, if the adapters on eBay are really the same hardware, they're doing it for $10


 
  it would be interesting for someone to compare the adapter from apple and the generic ones online like this one:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Apple-Iphone5-Lightning-30-pin-Adapter-iPhone-5-Ipod-5-iPod-nano-7th-gen-/140852868050?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item20cb7c33d2#ht_1841wt_1271
  maybe the apple one has a DAC and the generic one doesnt?


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## glamrox

I would think they would both have to have a DAC to serve the same function...


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## redjazz

A tear down of the lightning adapter:
   
http://gizmodo.com/5950947/first-look-at-whats-inside-apples-new-dock-adapter-its-basically-impossible-to-mod
   
  Quote: 





> The chips look unfamiliar, but with the same metal finish and some have lasered text. They all appear to be custom and trying to figure out what does what is fruitless. I really took this apart for the DIY community to ascertain if the DAC in this thing is actually good, but it's quite unclear. It's probably some integrated audio circuitry in a larger processing chip, that's how these things tend to be done now. One of the chips reads Apple on it with a very long serial number. Another reads 8533 23AP CAB.


 
   
   
  So, still a mystery on the DAC.


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## bowei006

Quote: 





redjazz said:


> A tear down of the lightning adapter:
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5950947/first-look-at-whats-inside-apples-new-dock-adapter-its-basically-impossible-to-mod
> 
> ...


 
  For their intergrated DAC's made my Cirrus Logic post 2008, they all use serieals and models that are NOT found anywhere on the web or on Cirrus Logics web site in any case. You won't find it


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## cooperpwc

This thread is behind. The Lightning adapter has a Wolfson DAC WM8533. However this is a new chip model for Wolfson, probably exclusive to Apple, so there is no information available for it.
   
Source:  http://www.abiresearch.com/blogs/missing-adapter/


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## PChoon

maybe reputable audio manufacturers can have their own version of the DAC replaced in the lightning adapter?


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## jseaber

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> This thread is behind. The Lightning adapter has a Wolfson DAC WM8533. However this is a new chip model for Wolfson, probably exclusive to Apple, so there is no information available for it.
> 
> Source:  http://www.abiresearch.com/blogs/missing-adapter/


 
   
  The WM8533 datasheet is available from Wolfson, actually: http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM8533.pdf
   
  Document is currently dated July 2012, Rev. 4.0:
   
   


> *24-bit 192kHz Stereo DAC with 2Vrms Ground Referenced Line Output*
> 
> 
> FEATURES
> ...


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## cooperpwc

Thanks, jseaber. My Google of the name oddly revealed nothing. I will look at that with interest.


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## ExpatinJapan

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> The WM8533 datasheet is available from Wolfson, actually: http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM8533.pdf
> 
> Document is currently dated July 2012, Rev. 4.0:


 
  Good find. added it to this thread.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/631228/apple-lightning-dock-adapter-abandon-all-hope-all-ye-who-enter#post_8784584


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## Vanarian

Quote: 





stoney said:


> My hunch was right: From MacWorld:
> 
> 
> Apple has confirmed to _Macworld_ that these adapters support analog and USB audio-out, as well as syncing and charging. *However, the adapters don’t support video-out or iPod mode, the latter a special mode that lets particular accessories, such as car stereos and some whole-home-audio systems, display your iPod’s menus on the accessory’s own screen.* More cryptically, the online Apple Store’s product pages note that “some 30-pin accessories are not supported.”
> ...


 
   
  I wonder if it really will be the case, I've been playing music only from Deezer since I didn't put my music back in my iPhone 5 yet. Yet in Bluetooth mode, it does work perfectly in my car, will show you timer or title of the music, will let you change track from the wheel and dashboard (though not let you search across your playlist... but come on, we're talking about Deezer app -a great app if you ask me-, not the OEM one so why not).
   
  I'm pretty convinced that it will work in USB mode too, and even let me search from dashboard if I run it with the OEM Ipod mode and not Deezer. 
   
  I use it in a Suzuki Swift, I can give you feedback once I'll put music back in it?


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## KT66

As the Iphone 5 needs charging twice a day with normal use, its not going to suit of a lot of people here
  as a DAP
   
  The change of output type just stuffs companies like FIIO.
  I really think Apple arrogance is making them lose the plot - just read the  Apple forums
   
  I have a free, no limits, 5 with 32gig from work, I could use it as my only
  phone, but my N8 is SO much better in so many ways, I will still be using it when the Iphone7 comes out!
   
  Mind you the Calculator app on the Iphone is superb, as is the browsing:
  as a music player, it doesn't even stand a chance


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## Chrontius

Been a few months.  Any progress on a line-level output for the iPhone 5?


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## attilahun

x2
  Can't believe there isn't something yet...


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## Vanarian

Ah, I didn't come back for a while... Just to say : my iPhone 5 works perfectly in USB with my car system.
   
  In fact I don't understand why Apple has put such a restriction with the new connector, it is smaller and thus practical but there should be solutions already.


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## Axesd

Still no rumors/product/news about the new line-out?


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## Sinik

any news on this?


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## KT66

I think I am pretty safe in saying that an analogue line out will never happen, digital out maybe.


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## attilahun

Can't believe there hasn't been a hack or something by now. 
At this point we may just have to see if the next iPhone offers and better connectivity.


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## huckfinn

Hi,
  Just noticed this on Appleinsider:
  http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/24/chinese-accessory-maker-claims-to-have-permanently-cracked-apples-lightning-authentication
  Would that, connecting through usb, allow to bypass the iphone's dac?


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## onlychild

They also have this product which they supports analog audio out. I wonder if it's a line out or headphone out. Would be great if I can use my iphone 5 with the pico slim


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## huckfinn

that would really change the rules of the game for those who have or want to use an iphone with a good portable/external dac....


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## Standard

Trying to bump this up a little.
  Do peeps have any feedback as to the possibility to connect a DAC to a Ipod touch 5 or Iphone 5?
  I own a little IBasso Zero dac which I like a lot coupled to Etymotic ER4S earbuds. I was considering the Ipod touch 5, but I'm still not sure I can use both my dac and my Etys on that device...
  Any thougts out there?


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## Griffster

Hi all, haven't posted much but have lurked for yonks! 

I'm jumping back on the Headfi bandwagon again after some time away. Sennheiser Momentums ordered, O2 kit has just been delivered and I was considering getting the ODAC to compliment them. 

I've now got lightning connectors on my iDevices, so I am also trying to find out if there's 
A). Line out from Lighting Connector or adaptor?
B). Digital output from Lightning Connector or adaptor?

Cheers
Griffster.


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## SoulSyde

Standard and Griffster, you're better off using a small 3.5mm to 3.5mm from the headphone out than using the Lightening to 30-pin adapter. The headphone out on the 5G iPhone/iPod Touch is very clean.

Headphone.com has a nice cable that may suit your needs until a descent LOD option comes out:
http://www.headphone.com/accessories/headroom-4-inch-mini-to-mini.php


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## blueangel2323

I would be very interested in a digital out so that an external DAC can be used. And $100 car stereos can pull a USB audio stream from iPods and iPhones, so clearly we're being ripped off by companies making $500+ docks/transports.


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## Standard

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Standard and Griffster, you're better off using a small 3.5mm to 3.5mm from the headphone out than using the Lightening to 30-pin adapter. The headphone out on the 5G iPhone/iPod Touch is very clean.
> 
> Headphone.com has a nice cable that may suit your needs until a descent LOD option comes out:
> http://www.headphone.com/accessories/headroom-4-inch-mini-to-mini.php


 

 Thank you for the reply. But pardon me if I'm not getting it quite right: it seems using the headphone out and plugging it to my DAC would result in a immense loss in sound impedence. I tried it on my IPod Classic, and there the sound in the etys was small and feeble with almost no power, to the point of insignifiance.
  Is there something I don't understand propely?


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## SoulSyde

Sorry, I misread your post. My original reply still stands for Griffster. 

Regarding your DAC, it is not an iDevice DAC like the Sony PHA-1, Fostex HP-P1 or V-Moda VAMP, so you will never be able to connect it to the DAC portion of your device. You can still connect any portable music player to it via the line-in. If using the headphone out on your music player instead of an LOD you need to have the volume up fairly high on the music player.


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## ExpatinJapan

soulsyde said:


> Sorry, I misread your post. My original reply still stands for Griffster.
> 
> Regarding your DAC, it is not an iDevice DAC like the Sony PHA-1, Fostex HP-P1 or V-Moda VAMP, so you will never be able to connect it to the DAC portion of your device. You can still connect any portable music player to it via the line-in. If using the headphone out on your music player instead of an LOD you need to have the volume up fairly high on the music player.


what he said.

If you want to use your idevice as a pure transport and bypass its dac and amp you need the sony pha1, fostex hpp1, verza, godapx, hifim8 or clas.
This is using a 30pin to usb-a lod.

The one you have now ibasso zero connected via a 30pin lod to mini 3.5 will only bypass the ipod amp.


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## LFC_SL

blueangel2323 said:


> I would be very interested in a digital out so that an external DAC can be used. And $100 car stereos can pull a USB audio stream from iPods and iPhones, so clearly we're being ripped off by companies making $500+ docks/transports.



No, you are being charged that much to feed the digital signal into a dac. You can just easily spend one fifth on a mfi dock, albeit that would really be for home use


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## Standard

Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> what he said.
> 
> If you want to use your idevice as a pure transport and bypass its dac and amp you need the sony pha1, fostex hpp1, verza, godapx, hifim8 or clas.
> This is using a 30pin to usb-a lod.
> ...


 

 All right, but what puzzles me is that I'm already using the IBASSO ZERO with my IPOD Classic and it works perfectly well, provided you use the 30pin audio out and not the headphone out.
  Would it be that different with the IPOD TOUCH 5g if I used the lightning > 30pin adapter?
  Here are a couple of pics of the set up I'm currently using. You see the connection between the IPOD Classic dock and the IBASSO line in. I'm anxious to know if this set up is still possible with the IPOD TOUCH 5g.


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## ExpatinJapan

Well it would stick out a lot more thats for sure.
The adapter adds length, and the apple adapter also has its own dac in it.

The set up you have now is fine and of course it works well. The dac in your ipod is fine and the ibasso adds a bit more amp power.

You can use the ibasso zero dac with a computer, but as we have said not with an 
Ipod. It will just amp your ipod.

If you want to go with an iphone5 you can go iphone5/apple lightning to 30pin adapter/lod to ibasso.
Or
Iphone5/mini to mini cable/ibasso.


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## georgelai57

expatinjapan said:


> If you want to use your idevice as a pure transport and bypass its dac and amp you need the sony pha1, fostex hpp1, verza, godapx, hifim8 or clas.
> This is using a 30pin to usb-a lod.
> 
> .




Add to the list, the ADL X1


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## ExpatinJapan

Sorry reread and you said ipod touch 5, what i said above still fits , just change iphone 5 for touch 5.

But your set up now is fine imho.






My set up. Hifi-m8/ ipod touch 4g with flacplayer app / ATH-ESW11 Ltd Ed






Just sold Fostex hp_p1 (kept the ATH-ESW9).


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## LFC_SL

I do not think you appreciated the previous posts 

30-pin lineout only bypasses the amp 

iDevice dac bypasses the internal dac AND amp 

Whether the price premium of mfi is "worth it" is a different matter. Often people read tons of threads on Head-Fi and convince themselves they need something and are simply looking for someone else to reinforce that. You appear to be in that position. If you like the sound of your existing setup then stick with it. You will not find many prepared to say spending 500 (insert currency) will definitely give you "better" sound. We do not have your ears


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## georgelai57

expatinjapan said:


> Well it would stick out a lot more thats for sure.
> The adapter adds length, and the apple adapter also has its own dac in it.




I wish a manufacturer would make a lightning to DAC to 3.5mm jack where say there is a 5 cm length from lightning to DAC and another 5 cm from DAC to 3.5mm. Right now when I use a Apple lightning-DAC adapter and add a LOD it feels so cumbersome. All that mass near the lightning port is something asking to break but having the DAC somewhere in the middle of the lightning to 3.5mm is in my view a better solution. Or at least an optional solution.


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## LFC_SL

Commission a cable manufacturer


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## Standard

Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> what he said.
> 
> If you want to use your idevice as a pure transport and bypass its dac and amp you need the sony pha1, fostex hpp1, verza, godapx, hifim8 or clas.
> This is using a 30pin to usb-a lod.
> ...


 

 Spot on!
  I think I was misusing the word DAC. What I want, indeed, is to muscle up the power of the amp side in my set up, since I'm using the ETYs ER 4S earplugs which won't shine until amped up with a portable device alonside the IPOD.
  So I assume I can still use this set up with the Touch, as you said, taking advantage of the adapter.
  Arigatô!


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## ExpatinJapan

Quote: 





standard said:


> Spot on!
> I think I was misusing the word DAC. What I want, indeed, is to muscle up the power of the amp side in my set up, since I'm using the ETYs ER 4S earplugs which won't shine until amped up with a portable device alonside the IPOD.
> So I assume I can still use this set up with the Touch, as you said, taking advantage of the adapter.
> Arigatô!


 
If you want to go with an ipod touch 5G you can go iphone5/apple lightning to 30pin adapter/lod to ibasso.
Or
Ipod touch 5G/mini to mini cable/ibasso.
   
________________________________________
   
Does your ibasso zero have enough power for you now? If so then fine.
   
Also ipod touches can make use of lots of music EQ apps
flaplayer app
Denon Audio 
EQu
Equalizer
sonicmaxpro
..to name a few.
   
But your set up now is fine too


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## Standard

Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> If you want to go with an ipod touch 5G you can go iphone5/apple lightning to 30pin adapter/lod to ibasso.
> Or
> Ipod touch 5G/mini to mini cable/ibasso.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah as it is the IBasso is fine with the Etys. Considering all options I'll go with Touch 64gb > lightning > 30pins adapter > IBasso
  This way I have an all-in-one device.
  The only concern I have is the slight loss of sound quality I might experience, going from Wolfson chip to new Touch chip. I've herad the IPod Classic still outperforms the new Touch 5 by a fair margin when we talk sheer sound quality.


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## ExpatinJapan

Hmm, i am not sure if we are talking about the same things here.

Ipod touch 5. Connects to http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B009A5EIWC/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1378116083&sr=8-2&pi=SL75
(Which has a dac in it, a wolfson i believe).

Which you then plug you existing cable into


Then to the ibasso.

---------------

Or you could get a 4th gen and not need te adapter.


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## Standard

Yes that's what I meant.
  Still bothered by the numerous articles and threads I've bumped into saying the old Ipod classic 5.5 (which I own) would sound better than the devices with the Cirrus chip (touch, nano, Iphones etc.)
  Hesitation, hesitation...


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## ExpatinJapan

This will keep you busy
   
   
  impressions of nano and adapter
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/635800/impression-apple-nano-7g-lightning-to-30pin-adapter
   
   
  about the adapter
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/628369/all-about-the-new-apple-lightning-cables-plugs-update-the-plot-thickens
   
  source and amps output measurements etc
  http://monoadc.blog64.fc2.com/blog-entry-99.html
   
  Graphs
  http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/rmaa%20complete%20-%20html.html
   
  ____________________________________________________________________
   
  The wolfson vs cirrus debate was worn out long ago.
  If you are happy, why change?
   
  the wolfson can be described as more warmer and the cirrus more bright/detailed...perhaps.
   
  Try a friends iphone 5 or ipod touch 5 first or in a store.
  ___________________________________________________________________
   
  Any way, thats me, I cant add anything more I think. 
  cheers


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## SoulSyde

standard said:


> All right, but what puzzles me is that I'm already using the IBASSO ZERO with my IPOD Classic and it works perfectly well, provided you use the 30pin audio out and not the headphone out.
> Would it be that different with the IPOD TOUCH 5g if I used the lightning > 30pin adapter?
> Here are a couple of pics of the set up I'm currently using. You see the connection between the IPOD Classic dock and the IBASSO line in. I'm anxious to know if this set up is still possible with the IPOD TOUCH 5g.


 
  
I stand corrected.  That's pretty cool.  I was not aware that the D-Zero had that capability.


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## blueangel2323

Quote: 





lfc_sl said:


> No, you are being charged that much to feed the digital signal into a dac. You can just easily spend one fifth on a mfi dock, albeit that would really be for home use


 
  What specific mfi docks are you talking about?


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## SoulSyde

standard said:


> All right, but what puzzles me is that I'm already using the IBASSO ZERO with my IPOD Classic and it works perfectly well, provided you use the 30pin audio out and not the headphone out.
> Would it be that different with the IPOD TOUCH 5g if I used the lightning > 30pin adapter?
> Here are a couple of pics of the set up I'm currently using. You see the connection between the IPOD Classic dock and the IBASSO line in. I'm anxious to know if this set up is still possible with the IPOD TOUCH 5g.


 
  
 I had to dig up this thread from last month because the concept of a D-Zero being used as an iDevice wasn't sitting well with me.  My irrational exuberance earlier made me think that you were using your D-Zero as an iDevice DAC, but upon further inspection what you have is an LOD (line out dock). We were discussing devices that act as onboard DACs (like the HP-P1 or PHA-1).  
  
 For anyone else who reads this thread in the future I wanted to make it clear that the D-Zero is not an iDevice DAC.


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## RCONSTRUCT

Solved here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/631228/apple-lightning-dock-adapter-abandon-all-hope-all-ye-who-enter


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