# Cotton insulated copper wires?  Why?



## High_Q

I accidentally ordered some cotton insulated copper wires from HGA while back, I don't know what to do with them, don't have experience with them.  Why cotton?  Can I make interconnects with it, would it cause any problems?


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## leeperry

I think cotton is great to kill microphonics


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## High_Q

Quote:


leeperry said:


> I think cotton is great to kill microphonics


 
   

  From wiki:
*Microphonics* describes the phenomenon where certain components in electronic devices transform *mechanical vibrations *into an undesired electrical signal (noise). 
   
kill microphonics? Care to elaborate?


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## moogoob

I think he means that cables (ie in headphones) can carry (physically) vibrations into the earcups/eartips during normal activities like walking, much like a tin-can telephone. Thus, cotton-insulated cables would work great for making custom IEM recables.


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## AudioCats

cotton has lower dielectric coefficient than other insulating material, say, teflon, resulting lower capacitance between wires.


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## High_Q

Quote:


audiocats said:


> cotton has lower dielectric coefficient than other insulating material, say, teflon, resulting lower capacitance between wires.


 
  How would that effect the signal transfer?


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## Dr No

yes but cotton is not airtight, the copper would oxidate, wouldn´t it?


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## Prog Rock Man

I thought cotton was there to help prevent crushing and for strength, particularly in studio applications.


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## Young Spade

Quote: 





audiocats said:


> cotton has lower dielectric coefficient than other insulating material, say, teflon, resulting lower capacitance between wires.


 

 Ah so that's one reason. Thanks for sharing. 

  
  Quote: 





dr no said:


> yes but cotton is not airtight, the copper would oxidate, wouldn´t it?


 

 You would put that over the plastic or whatever you're originally using to cover the wires. Then you would put the copper over that for protection and all of that other good stuff. 
   
  Kind of like a seat cover over a car seat. The cover is already there but the seat cover gives extra comfort and whatnot.


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## sampson_smith

Quote: 





dr no said:


> yes but cotton is not airtight, the copper would oxidate, wouldn´t it?


 

 Oxidize! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sorry... I'm a chemist and couldn't help myself!


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## JamesL

Quote: 





high_q said:


> Quote:
> How would that effect the signal transfer?


 

 For interconnects, it would raise the corner frequency of the low pass RC filter.  
  Meaning that where moderate-length interconnects in a normal system would roll off the 'highs' somewhere around 50khz to 500khz, a identical cable made with a cotton dielectric would roll off the highs maybe around 70khz to 700khz.  Normally well beyond the audible range unless you start using 30 feet lengths of radioshack cable.
   
  It boggles me why audiophiles would use this stuff.  You can achieve a lower capacitance by simply increasing the distance between conductors(or shield), decreasing the conductor size, using a thicker insulator, or decreasing the cable length..  You can do all this without sacrificing the conductor.
   
  For headphone/speaker cables, capacitance hardly ever matters.. the Fc is usually 100 to 10000x that of a interconnect.
   
   
   
  Cotton makes for good linen and casual wear... not for insulating copper conductors.
  If you want to reduce microphonics, at least put the cotton over an insulated conductor.


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## Lex

Quote: 





jamesl said:


> Cotton makes for good linen and casual wear...


 

 Linen is made from flax


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## jageur272

Quote:


jamesl said:


> It boggles me why audiophiles would use this stuff.  You can achieve a lower capacitance by simply increasing the distance between conductors(or shield), decreasing the conductor size, using a thicker insulator, or decreasing the cable length..  You can do all this without sacrificing the conductor.


 

 Don't forget it has a more organic sound (whatever that means)


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## Dr No

Quote: 





young spade said:


> Ah so that's one reason. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I assumed the cotton would be the only dielectric, since that is what I have seen been done: copper then cotton. No other material was ud´sed on those ICs.


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## Dr No

Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> Oxidize!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  English is not my first language, so excuuuse mee.


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## Young Spade

Quote: 





dr no said:


> I assumed the cotton would be the only dielectric, since that is what I have seen been done: copper then cotton. No other material was ud´sed on those ICs.


 
  Wow really? What cable have you seen do this? Most high quality cables now-a-days made for the consumer with intent of preserving SQ have been 99.9999 (I remembered lol) percent oxygen free. Then you have the choice of how "fine" you want that copper (or silver) to be (OCC etc.)


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## JB197

Those poor souls with Audiophile-Nervosa use it because cotton is a nice and natural product and hence cable with cotton absolutely _must_ sound nice and natural_._ Also, it's an old technology from the days when sound reproduction was glorious and warm sounding, so it _must_ sound glorious and warm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cynical, me?


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## sampson_smith

No worries, Dr No. Sorry for the trouble. You are excused! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





dr no said:


> English is not my first language, so excuuuse mee.


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