# Headstage Arrow HE: Reviews, Impressions, Perceptions & Sensations



## Mediaogre

Please post here, your thoughts, opinions, documented reviews, tips and issues on the new Headstage, Arrow HE headphone amp.

 I'll kick things off with a glamor shot and my initial "knee-jerk" thoughts I barfed on text during my first couple of hours with the svelte black gear from Germany.

 -Ogre


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## Mediaogre

Here are A few photos I took for fun and reference.

 Shameless plug: my first DIY, interconnect cable project was a success. Not only does it complement the aesthetics of my new "rig" but it _works_ and the device configuration is ninja quiet.


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## rehabitat

Well done Ogre! That's a very sexy combo, nice work on the IC. Looking forward to reading your subjective impressions.

 With regards to upsetting the common vernacular (e.g. LOD & rig) I'm with you all the way. I'm not comfortable with "rig"; I think it's a bit of a toss.

 Congrats on your first HF thread. I'm sure it will be epic in proportions.


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## Mediaogre

*My initial thoughts after spending approximately eight albums with the Arrow HE*

*Volume*

 I've lost my old volume reference now that I've had the Arrow for a few hours which makes it difficult for me to compare the sonic quality at the amped level vs. the just-Zune sonic quality at a comparable volume level. My ears tell me that I'm listening at a lower volume level but enjoying a more balanced and livelier signature.

*[Note after 8+ hours]* I'm definitely listening at a lower volume (than with just the DAP) and enjoying much better balance and overall sonic quality. How can I tell? No ear fatigue with the SE530s. Just smooth power across the board. The amp's power delivery is like a car or truck with a gob of smooth torque. 

*Mids, Highs, & Lows*

 Porcupine Tree,*_In Absentia_*sounds fantastic. With the SE530s, the bass is vibrating my head (in a good way - not in a cars-that-go-boom way) the mids are punching me in the face and the highs are like Tinker Bell masturbating. After "tinkering" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 with the *IMP*, *GAIN* and *CROSS* settings, highs on the Shures finally have some definition, separation and are pushed back away from piercing the center of my head. Mids are powerful and dominate - when they should if that makes sense. Quiet passages with an upfront snare drum and acoustic guitars or piano (I think I was listening to Between the Buried And Me, _Fossil Genera_) give me goose bumps.

 On the my Sennheiser HD500As, I had to tweak with the *IMP* setting (the HD500A are 150 Ohms) bump it down to *II* (70 Ohms) and nudge the *GAIN* to *III* to encourage the highs, but I got it just right. Mids! Wow, rich and warm and punchy. The solo on _The Sound of Muzak_ (above-mentioned album) had such a commanding presence. It did not sound like that straight through the Zune. The guitar was growling like a heated up and pissed off Marshall amplifier. Am I listening to tubes, or this just what I've been missing all this time. :-/ The bass has finally come alive on the HD500As - at times, too much. It's much more upfront and has clarity.

*DANG! (It made my say, "DANG!")*

 Trust Fall: This thing is quiet! Way quieter than I thought it would be. My Shures are hissless. I'm slowly (after a few hours) learning to dial back the DAP volume, trust the gain settings and the Arrow's power and let it do the driving, leaving the navigating to the DAP. The Arrow's a good driver. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*If anyone detects distortion, let me know so I can try and reproduce*. (I understand results, with all the different source and gear variables, will vary.)

*Duh Moment*

 This is one of those "duh" comments I referenced in a previous disclaimer which speaks to my newbness, but - the Arrow brings out the best in quality masterings... and the flaws and sonic attributes which otherwise may have gone unnoticed or at least not as noticeable in lesser quality masterings played on just a DAP.

*Detail*

 Subtle reverb, clucks, chirps and the scrapes of initial note strikes are more pronounced and have more character. 

 Good and bad: I can now hear when the mastering engineer (on a "good" mastering effort where the entire album doesn't sound like it was mastered in a compression chamber on Mars) pulls back slightly on the entire mix, e.g., when the band goes from a clean passage into a full-on punishing cement truck romp (ala Opeth).

*Soundstage*

 I am hyaving soundstage?! The cross-feed effect is fun to play with. With the Shures, inevitably, it'll be something I can't live without. With the Senns, it'll likely be a matter of taste, depending on the album, type of music and quality of the mastering. A layman's description coming from a layman is: incrementing the *CROSS* effect scoots your chair back, away from the vocals monitor. And this is purely my weird perception/sensation, but from one extreme setting, *O*, to the other extreme, *II*, I felt lifted slightly above the stage. This is not the '04 Zinfandel talking. This is something I experienced many times when monkeying which the *CROSS* switch, and each time, it tweaked my ear a bit.

*Blatant Technical Benefits (BTBs)*

 I have a hard drive-based DAP, and if I match the headphones, impedance setting, gain and volume, I no longer here the whirring of the DAP's hard drive spinning-up for the next song. If I get it "wrong" and/or I have the DAP volume louder than it needs to be, I can hear the HDD, but only a little bit.

*Build & Design*

 Case flaw? What flaw. :-/ It's well engineered. From form factor to fit and finish to the laser engravings, it's tight, clean and tidy. Switches are dainty but sturdy. The volume control has appropriate resistance. The jacks are snug and snappy and I don't detect any flex in the top or bottom caps when I wiggle my interconnect connector. Attention to detail is extremely high to me, but I don't have anything to compare the Arrow against except my own high expectations. The fact that Robert included separate line inputs on the top and bottom is a testament to the elegant design and speaks to the efficiency of the design and assembly. Charge & Play at the same time, and an FRU (Field Replaceable Unit) battery? Sweet icing on the cake.

*Concerns*

 I'm careful with my gadgets, but I'm concerned about the seemingly vulnerable power toggle.

 Forgetting it when I go on a trip.

*Confusion*

 The only confusion for me is that the effects switch positions and label printing are oriented differently on some switches, e.g., *BASS* is *O II I* and *CROSS* is *I O II*. Although, this could be my own ignorance of how the analog switches are designed and implemented. Also, *GAIN* is *II I III* which threw me because the lowest value (which I understand should not be *O* because some gain is produced at this setting) is in the center position which is counter-intuitive to my left-to-right thinking brain.

*Minor Gripes*

_Minor_ - When the Arrow has gone to sleep and you push play on the DAP, sometimes there's a slight delay as the amp detects a signal and wakes up. This occurs when the switch is in "auto" mode and is a small price to pay for the benefit of the auto off/on convenience.

 When the Arrow goes to sleep, there's an audible snap-pop which, depending on the gain and volume, hasn't been piercing or uncomfortable, but it gets my attention.

*Praise*

 A lot. Did I mention it's quiet? Excellent engineering and craftsmanship. It's versatile, powerful, and elegant, three words that often don't go together, especially, in a device with the Arrow's Kate Moss profile. It's a ton of fun messing around with all those effects. Bang for buck factor is high. I feel like I just got a Porsche at a legit auction for the price of a Subaru. (I have an automobile analogy for almost every situation.)

 -Ogre


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## rehabitat

Wow, nice job dude.


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## Trapper32

^ Great first impression ogre !!! Thanks for taking the time to write that up for us . And nice looking interconnects!!! Enjoy your time with your Arrow tonite


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## dfkt

Thanks for the review, Mediaogre. Looks to be an excellent amp for the money.


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## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Great first impression ogre !!! Thanks for taking the time to write that up for us . And nice looking interconnects!!! Enjoy your time with your Arrow tonite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, man. My Pleasure. I will definitely enjoy it tonight. (Thanks for reminding me to pick up beer.)

  Quote:


 Wow, nice job dude. 
 

Thanks, rehabitat. (And thanks for guiding us all down the forum thread Death Star trench.)


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## Hellenback

I don't have a lot more to say other than IMO this is simply the best, most versatile portable amp I have heard. I have not heard the Pico Slim (which will likely be it's closest competitor at $100->$150 more) but I have compared it to the Pico and found the Arrow's SQ every bit as good or better, while having much more versatility. There are likely some (much) more expensive trans-portables with better SQ but I don't think that's a fair comparison as the Arrow is made within the constraints of an "ultra" portable amp. As I have responded more than my share in the previous thread, I'll leave it to others to post _their_ impressions here.

 Here's a link to some comparative impressions for anyone visiting either of these threads for the first time. 
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/o...ml#post6367133


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## cn11

Mediaogre-
 Excellent job on the impressions. I'll be adding in mine once it arrives. It'll get compared to the ALO Rx (which I'm loving).... 

 Good listening.


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## rehabitat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(And thanks for guiding us all down the forum thread Death Star trench.)_

 

lol, use the force Oges


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## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mediaogre-
 Excellent job on the impressions. I'll be adding in mine once it arrives. It'll get compared to the ALO Rx (which I'm loving).... 

 Good listening._

 

Thanks, cn11. I can't wait to hear your thoughts and a comparison.

 Hey folks, this is somewhat off-topic, but it's relevant to my current situation and gear. What's burn-in and how do I know what I'm listening for? I understand the basic idea, but if someone could explain I'd appreciate it. FWIW - I've already satisfied my Strong Desire For Magic.


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## Hellenback

Quote:


 What's burn-in and how do I know what I'm listening for? 
 

To the best of my knowledge "burn in" is mostly applicable to amps with large (cylindrical) capacitors that retain/release an electrical charge. In the case of the Arrow, because of it's design I haven't found that "burn in applies to any significant degree. There will be some people that disagree but I believe if there was a required optimum burn in period it would have been stated in the product description/manual. Anyone who knows more about this or hears/believes differently feel free to speak up.


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## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To the best of my knowledge "burn in" is mostly applicable to amps with large (cylindrical) capacitors that retain/release an electrical charge. In the case of the Arrow, because of it's design I haven't found that "burn in applies to any significant degree. There will be some people that disagree but I believe if there was a required optimum burn in period it would have been stated in the product description/manual. Anyone who knows more about this or hears/believes differently feel free to speak up._

 

Eeyikes. Thanks, Hellenback.

 I hope it's not too late to put that can of worms back on the shelf. I officially retract my previous question.


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## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eeyikes. Thanks, Hellenback.

 I hope it's not too late to put that can of worms back on the shelf. I officially retract my previous question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Of course I am speaking about this amp in particular. I do believe there is a "burn in" or break in period with headphones as their diaphragm needs a number of hours of movement to reach it's optimal "flexibility".
 Cables and other gear are obviously up for a debate and clearly off-topic.

 What question was that???


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## average_joe

There are many many threads all over this site discussing burn in. I personally will wait a while before serious comparing to the Shadow. Plus I just don't have the time now.


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## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are many many threads all over this site discussing burn in. I personally will wait a while before serious comparing to the Shadow. Plus I just don't have the time now._

 

A cursory impression would be helpful. It can always be updated upon further listening. (But if you don't have time, you don't have time) 


 Just FYI: I emailed Robert about "burn in" on the Arrow and he replied it didn't apply (as it's his amp I assume he knows what he's talking about).


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## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just FYI: I emailed Robert about "burn in" on the Arrow and he replied it didn't apply (as it's his amp I assume he knows what he's talking about)._

 

Thanks for checking, Hellenback. That's one less thing for my rapidly filling up brain to worry about.


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## zeeter

I'm still waiting on mine as well (I think it should be here this week though). I also bought a usb dac cable but I did that like a week after the arrow already shipped so I'll have to wait even longer for that.

 What was the issue with the arrow's case? I was reading some stuff from the other thread about how there was a flaw in the case and Robert was gonna send out replacements. Not sure if I understand this situation completely.

 Also...just curious...I noticed that this new thread was put in full size amps. I thought this was considered more of a portable amp if not an ultra portable amp. From the pics I've seen...it's pretty tiny.


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## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeeter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still waiting on mine as well (I think it should be here this week though). I also bought a usb dac cable but I did that like a week after the arrow already shipped so I'll have to wait even longer for that.

 What was the issue with the arrow's case? I was reading some stuff from the other thread about how there was a flaw in the case and Robert was gonna send out replacements. Not sure if I understand this situation completely._

 

I think I can safely speak for the group when I say, "We don't know." What's on the Headphonia site - that's what we know. What I _do_ know is... this amp doesn't make me look fat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If mine has a manufacturing flaw, I'm unable to identify it. I asked Robert once, but I didn't hear back. I'll ask him again and let him know he's got a bunch of us inquiring minds over here.


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## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I can safely speak for the group when I say, "We don't know." What's on the Headphonia site - that's what we know. What I do know is... this amp doesn't make me look fat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If mine has a manufacturing flaw, I'm unable to identify it. I asked Robert once, but I didn't hear back. I'll ask him again and let him know he's got a bunch of us inquiring minds over here._

 

Official apology to Robert, who's been extremely responsive to all my questions: I sifted through all my emails with Robert and I never actually asked him about the flaw. So, the flaw is mine. Sorry, Robert.

 With his permission, here's Robert's response with regard to the flaw (and some additional fun information):

 "See the screw hole on the back side of the amp. One hole was slightly rebored (by me). If you can’t see it even better! BTW, the new end panels will be available in each two versions with reversed printing. That way you can rotate the amp and the printing won’t be upside down. The new aluminum case will have the full laser engraving as well (with the “ARROW” on the side as shown on the website).

 Regards
 Robert"

 And no, I _still_ can't see it.


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## cn11

More impressions please people... to tide me over during my wait....


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## Hellenback

@ Zeeter (Post #19)
  Quote:


 Also...just curious...I noticed that this new thread was put in full size amps. I thought this was considered more of a portable amp if not an ultra portable amp. From the pics I've seen...it's pretty tiny. 
 

This has been one tough impressions thread to get titled and displayed properly. I hope one of the the mods (or anyone else) is able to relocate it in the proper place so that people looking for a great, reasonably priced portable amp can find it.


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## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, the new end panels will be available in each two versions with reversed printing. That way you can rotate the amp and the printing won’t be upside down._

 

Nice, I like a manufacturer that thinks about everything, no matter how tiny the detail.


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## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ Zeeter (Post #13)
 This has been one tough impressions thread to get titled and displayed properly. I hope one of the the mods (or anyone else) is able to relocate it in the proper place so that people looking for a great, reasonably priced portable amp can find it._

 

Good catch, Hellenback. I newb spazzed and didn't see the (full size) when I drilled down from the main forum page. I'll see about moving it.


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## zeeter

Well I'm getting kinda worried now because I received my usb dac cable today in the mail. Robert had told me previously that he had already shipped my amp a week before I ordered the cable so I'm curious as to why my amp didn't make it here first. I hope it wasn't lost in the mail, but I've already emailed Robert about this and am waiting for his reply.

 Maybe it could be stuck in customs somewhere?!? I live in Roanoke, VA.


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## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeeter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I'm getting kinda worried now because I received my usb dac cable today in the mail. Robert had told me previously that he had already shipped my amp a week before I ordered the cable so I'm curious as to why my amp didn't make it here first. I hope it wasn't lost in the mail, but I've already emailed Robert about and am waiting for his reply.

 Maybe it could be stuck in customs somewhere?!? I live in Roanoke, VA._

 

Yo, zeeter. This question should really be posted in the "Where o where is my..." sub forum. I'll post my thoughts there.


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## zeeter

Sorry about that....Could a mod possibly move it?


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## Mediaogre

I've tried to document as best as I can. I'm still on my first full charge from Monday. According to my notes, I've got 29 hours on it and the power LED just starting blinking (4:00 PM Pacific Time). I don't detect any SQ degradation.

*Relevant settings during the first battery use*

*3-4 Hours:*
GAIN *I*
IMP *O*, *I*, and *II*
Volume: about 1/3

*25-26 Hours:*
GAIN *III* ( \m/ show yer hornz)
IMP *O*
Volume: between 1/2 and 2/3

 To my ears, both my good phones sound best with the gain cranked and the impedence on the lowest setting. Who knew? CROSS and BASS - I'm all over the place. As I've come to trust the Arrow's clean power, I've dialed my Zune down from 15/20 and settled on 11. Which is a cool number and easy to remember for the obvious pop culture reference reason. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Still blinking at 4:18)


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## Hellenback

Quote:


 I've dialed my Zune down from 15/20 and settled on 11. Which is a cool number and easy to remember for the obvious pop culture reference reason. 
 

I've read somewhere that a player's optimum output is between 11 and 12 (o'clock) on the volume dial. Seems your ears tell the same story. There is likely some variance between players...


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## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read somewhere that a player's optimum output is between 11 and 12 (o'clock) on the volume dial. Seems your ears tell the same story. There is likely some variance between players..._

 

Good to know. Yeah, about half on both devices is working quite well. 2:00 O'clock (2/3) on the Arrow if I'm feeling like risking marginally dangerous SPLs.


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## Mediaogre

I got almost another hour before the battery died. Call it 30 hours total. I'm now enjoying the extremely thoughtful "EDIT>>charge & play" feature.


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## rehabitat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got almost another hour before the battery died. Call it 30 hours total. I'm now enjoying the extremely thoughtful "change & play" feature._

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what's change and play? Do you have a spare battery? Or do you mean charge and play?


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## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rehabitat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgive my ignorance, but what's change and play? Do you have a spare battery? Or do you mean charge and play?_

 

Durr, sorry about that. I was typing quickly. Yeah, I meant "charge & play". (Edited)


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## average_joe

First, I am a burn in believer for amps (electrons are moving parts err, particles 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I thought the Arrow sounded pretty bad with my CK10 and CK90Pro out of the box and the Shadow easily outperformed the Arrow. 

 So, after continuously playing music since Monday I have had a little time to compare the Arrow (low gain, lowest impedance, no bass boost, no crossfeed) with the Shadow, I am impressed with the SQ with a iPhone 3G as the source. 

 The good..the Arrow sounds great, and there is a warmth or something that I can not put my finger on yet that I like better than the Shadow. Space is on par if not better and the detail levels seem about the same. And that is with the Shadow having 500+ hours on it. Plus, I like the form factor better than the Shadow, even thought the Shadow is smaller. 

 The bad...my iPhone interferes with the Arrow causing it to make poping and clicking noises every so often. They aren't that loud, but still. There goes that perfect size match. I guess I still have my 5.5g! Also, when playing while charging from my computer there is audible noise. When charging from a wall charger while playing it is fine though. The auto on/off function is not silent.

 And the USB-DAC-Cable is performing well also, standing up to the uDAC so far. Plus I found a possible mod for it in the computer audio forum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 More impressions as I get time.


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## rehabitat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The bad...my iPhone interferes with the Arrow causing it to make poping and clicking noises every so often._

 

I infer from this that the Shadow does not suffer from interference from your iphone. Is this correct because I have heard of other amps (can't recall which ones) that suffer from the same problem unless the iphone is in flight mode?


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## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rehabitat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I infer from this that the Shadow does not suffer from interference from your iphone. Is this correct because I have heard of other amps (can't recall which ones) that suffer from the same problem unless the iphone is in flight mode?_

 

That is correct, the Shadow does not suffer from interference.


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## average_joe

OK, some additional listening notes (source DIY 5.5g):

 The Bass boost is nice with the CK10 (not that I think the CK10 needs a bass boost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), high for trance and low for everything else.

 Amazing space with the IE8. I really didn't notice any difference with the crossfeed settings. Maybe with a different IEM with a smaller space to start.

 I compared a little more with the Shadow and the Arrow seems more detailed, clearer, and a little warmer when paired with the IE8 (gain @ min, imp @ low, bass boost off, crossfeed off).


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## Hellenback

Quote:


 I really didn't notice any difference with the crossfeed settings. 
 

Try it with some hard panned L/R recordings (like Beatles original stereo) and you will notice a drastic difference. Cross-feed is quite subtle (as I'm sure you're aware). It can _seem_ to reduce stereo separation as it feeds a lttle of each channel into the other. I find the early Beatles stereo recordings almost unbearable with headphones unless I use crossfeed.


  Quote:


 The bad...my iPhone interferes with the Arrow causing it to make poping and clicking noises every so often. 
 

What volume level/headphones are you using when you hear "noise"? (I'm pretty sure the Shadow is restricted to low imp/IEMs if you want any volume) but please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try it with some hard panned L/R recordings (like Beatles original stereo) and you will notice a drastic difference. Cross-feed is quite subtle (as I'm sure you're aware). It can seem to reduce stereo separation as it feeds a lttle of each channel into the other. I find the early Beatles stereo recordings almost unbearable with headphones unless I use crossfeed._

 

I guess I will have to try some more songs, but I don't have a lot of the Beatles in the rotation.

  Quote:


 What volume level/headphones are you using when you hear "noise"? 
 

Maybe 1/4th or so volume (lowest gain). Haven't really played with the volume to see if the sounds get louder or quieter with the volume. And it doesn't do it all the time, I was listening to my iPhone for a while before it started making the noises, and then it was consistent.


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## unl3a5h3d

I really want to know how this compares to the ALO Rx. So if someone has both I would like to see some impressions. I know there is one guy on here that will soon have both.


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## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, when playing while charging from my computer there is audible noise._

 

Update: using a USB cable with a choke eliminates the noise while charging.


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## rehabitat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I compared a little more with the Shadow and the Arrow seems more detailed, clearer, and a little warmer when paired with the IE8 (gain @ min, imp @ low, bass boost off, crossfeed off)._

 

That's a very interesting observation and sounds quite promising, although it must be said that with the exception of some very high end tube gear, detail and clarity are often regarded as opposing qualities to warmth. I don't doubt your opinion and indeed I hope to observe the same combination when I start to play with my amp after it arrives.

 Reading these pages it seems that the quality of solid state amplification has improved exponentially in the last decade, and based on recent impressions the Arrow is a good example of this. I also observe that headphone amplification is the ideal format for these improvements, perhaps in large part due to form factor. The broader audiophile community appears to be enjoying a renaissance of vacuum tube based technology and hybrid designs abound, so it's exciting times for all!


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## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rehabitat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a very interesting observation and sounds quite promising, although it must be said that with the exception of some very high end tube gear, detail and clarity are often regarded as opposing qualities to warmth. I don't doubt your opinion and indeed I hope to observe the same combination when I start to play with my amp after it arrives.

 Reading these pages it seems that the quality of solid state amplification has improved exponentially in the last decade, and based on recent impressions the Arrow is a good example of this. I also observe that headphone amplification is the ideal format for these improvements, perhaps in large part due to form factor. The broader audiophile community appears to be enjoying a renaissance of vacuum tube based technology and hybrid designs abound, so it's exciting times for all!_

 

IMO warmth can contribute to clarity, but detail is completely separate and there is what I will call apparent detail and actual detail. First, when the sound gets too warm, I do think it affects clarity. The differences I am hearing are subtle, but I have heard them with many IEMs on consecutive nights, so I believe they are there. Second, apparent detail is dependent on the frequency response, as an upper mid/lower treble boost will bring details to the forefront, making the details easier to hear. Actual detail (or resolution) is irrespective of frequency response, and this is where I think the Arrow bests the Shadow.

 And yes, great times when a $200 amp compares with a $400 amp!

 Looking forward to your observations when you get yours


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## Hellenback

Quote:


 And yes, great times when a $200 amp compares with a $400 amp! 
 

I believe for many people this is the most important factor re: impressions of the Arrow (and the main reason why this thread should be in the right place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with portable amplification). Many people cannot afford several portable amps for their headphones and want to buy the one that is the best for their set-up. It has already been stated somewhere in one of these two threads that Robert uses HD650s while AverageJoe (at times at least) uses IEMs. The Arrow has come out shining on both ends of the spectrum and this is no small feat in itself. I personally have not heard a better all round, truly portable amp. Is it perfect for _every _HP/DAP combination? I doubt _any_ amp is, but to my ears the Arrow is certainly the best you'll get for your money (and often more) with _most_ portable set-ups.
 I am not really very adept at describing intricate details of soundstage, resolution, warmth, clarity etc. It has been shown both here and elsewhere that these terms mean different things to different people (even if they _do _have an objective definition). As far as my understanding of these terms goes, the Arrow excels at them all. 
 When the Arrow has been compared to other amps (by either myself or others) it has usually been to amps costing $100 -> $200 more and it has come out as _at least_ equal in most respects and better in some. IMO this makes the Arrow a no brainer for someone on a budget or anyone looking for real value and SQ. The money saved would be better spent on music! It has been hotly debated whether very low impedance IEMs even need external amplification. Only the person using them can decide this and it seems the Arrow is an inexpensive way to begin experimenting.

 If *anyone* knows how to get this thread moved to the proper section, it would be a service to anyone looking for a great _portable_ amp. It would also give the Arrow some of the exposure it deserves as one of the best (ultra) portable amplifiers.


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## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe for many people this is the most important factor re: impressions of the Arrow (and the main reason why this thread should be in the right place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 with portable amplification). Many people cannot afford several portable amps for their headphones and want to buy the one that is the best for their set-up. It has already been stated somewhere in one of these two threads that Robert uses HD650s while AverageJoe (at times at least) uses IEMs. The Arrow has come out shining on both ends of the spectrum and this is no small feat in itself. I personally have not heard a better all round, truly portable amp. Is it perfect for every HP/DAP combination? I doubt any amp is, but to my ears the Arrow is certainly the best you'll get for your money (and often more) with most portable set-ups.
 I am not really very adept at describing intricate details of soundstage, resolution, warmth, clarity etc. It has been shown both here and elsewhere that these terms mean different things to different people (even if they do have an objective definition). As far as my understanding of these terms goes, the Arrow excels at them all. 
 When the Arrow has been compared to other amps (by either myself or others) it has usually been to amps costing $100 -> $200 more and it has come out as at least equal in most respects and better in some. IMO this makes the Arrow a no brainer for someone on a budget or anyone looking for real value and SQ. The money saved would be better spent on music! It has been hotly debated whether very low impedance IEMs even need external amplification. Only the person using them can decide this and it seems the Arrow is an inexpensive way to begin experimenting.

 If *anyone* knows how to get this thread moved to the proper section, it would be a service to anyone looking for a great portable amp. It would also give the Arrow some of the exposure it deserves as one of the best (ultra) portable amplifiers._

 

Wow, I'm hearing some excellent feedback and learning too.

 Hellenback, I emailed Jude about moving the thread, but possibly, that wasn't the best way to get his attention. I'll try a PM.


----------



## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ It has been hotly debated whether very low impedance IEMs even need external amplification. Only the person using them can decide this and it seems the Arrow is an inexpensive way to begin experimenting._

 

Wow is all I can say. And no contest. And yes, the Arrow seems to be an exceptional value. Although inexpensive is relative 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If *anyone* knows how to get this thread moved to the proper section, it would be a service to anyone looking for a great _portable_ amp. It would also give the Arrow some of the exposure it deserves as one of the best (ultra) portable amplifiers.[/QUOTE]

 I PMed a mod...we shall see what happens.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 I PMed a mod...we shall see what happens 
 

Thanks Joe, it looks like it worked....now we can see what others think about our impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


 Wow is all I can say. And no contest. And yes, the Arrow seems to be an exceptional value. Although inexpensive is relative 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

PS: I'm not sure what you mean by "no contest"? I value your opinion and in no way mean to devalue it or your impressions about this amp or anything else. Value *is* very subjective and I only meant it in reference to the Arrow vs. other amps costing more. Anyone could make a valid argument that $100 is enough to pay for the technology that goes into _any_ headphone amp.


 @ Mediaogre  Quote:


 I emailed Jude about moving the thread, but possibly, that wasn't the best way to get his attention. I'll try a PM 
 

It seems that whatever was done had the desired effect.


----------



## feverfive

Thanks all for the impressions... I've been skeptical of portable amps for some reason, but am thinking of purchasing the Arrow. At $150 less than the Pico Slim, it appears to be a good value. Sent Robert an email asking about how long it would take to ship one; hope to hear back from him.


----------



## mesasone

Can one of you guys post a few pictures of the Arrow with the iPhone/iPod Touch?


----------



## Gridlinked

I'm really curious as to how the Arrow compares to the RSA P51 and Shadow. I have no doubt it sounds good, but I'm more interested to see if its sound compliments my Westone 3's as well as the P51 and Shadow reportedly do.


----------



## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS: I'm not sure what you mean by "no contest"?_

 

What I mean by no contest is the Arrow's performance I am hearing at the $200 price point (plus mail in amp) is no contest winner IMO for price/performance. The Shadow is twice the price as will be the Slim when in production. The iPhone interference is the only real downer IMO. With the Shadow you are paying a premium for size. Can't comment on the Slim as I have not heard it yet.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mesasone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can one of you guys post a few pictures of the Arrow with the iPhone/iPod Touch?_

 

The Arrow is a nice size match for the iPhone & 5.5g and works fine for me with the Fuze. Enjoy the [not so good] attached pictures!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gridlinked* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really curious as to how the Arrow compares to the RSA P51 and Shadow. I have no doubt it sounds good, but I'm more interested to see if its sound compliments my Westone 3's as well as the P51 and Shadow reportedly do._

 

Please read above...I have done some preliminary comparisons of the Shadow and Arrow.


----------



## xcluded

interesting stuff. the price is competitive too.

 looking forward to more reviews and also comparing with ALO RX.

 i wonder if RF interference is an issue with this amp. Anyone having this amp, mind to shed some light ?


----------



## grokit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And the USB-DAC-Cable is performing well also, standing up to the uDAC so far. Plus I found a possible mod for it in the computer audio forum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

average_joe, you have me curious as to what kind of mod you are referring to, and upon searching I could not find a reference to a mod of the USB-DAC-Cable in the computer audio forum; could you please provide a permalink?


----------



## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grokit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_average_joe, you have me curious as to what kind of mod you are referring to, and upon searching I could not find a reference to a mod of the USB-DAC-Cable in the computer audio forum; could you please provide a permalink?_

 

Ask and you shall receive


----------



## wuwhere

My USB DAC Cable has been shipped Wednesday of last week. Hopefully, I'll receive it soon. I'll compare it with my BG & topkit modded D10, which also uses the WM8740 DAC chip.


----------



## Gridlinked

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please read above...I have done some preliminary comparisons of the Shadow and Arrow._

 

Thanks, I realize that and I'm looking forward to reading additional opinions. If I can get similar sound for $150 less these definitely are good times.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 Can one of you guys post a few pictures of the Arrow with the iPhone/iPod Touch? 
 

Only one I have access to with the touch


----------



## zappp

Dear Average Joe,

 some images show iPod touch or iPhone with a very compact line out adapter, where the cable exits on the side, combined with an angled 3.5mm plug. Where you got that from?

 Z


----------



## shigzeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only one I have access to with the touch






_

 

sexy shot

 @zappo - I got a small low profile LOD (check the post) from Qusp here at headfi - quite a nice (if not beautiful) invention.


----------



## Hellenback

Here's a picture I found here on head-fi of the same style LOD. It was posted by someone who isn't concerned with advertising his website in his pictures. This is a custom low profile LOD made by Qusp (MOT) for another head-fier. I have no idea what it cost and don't know Qusp (Jeremy).


----------



## shigzeo

Yes, that is the one. But, what is that doing in someone elses photobucket? I took that shot!


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shigzeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, that is the one. But, what is that doing in someone elses photobucket? I took that shot!_

 

Off topic, in order for that other person to post it, photobucket makes you load to your photobucket to give you IMG code and yes they allow that. AFAIK any content you load to them, even private account is subject to their rules.


----------



## shigzeo

I don't have issue with that - but my logo was also stripped away. Perhaps my good faith in not smearing with a watermark was unfounded. 

 Back on topic: that LOD should work great with a slim amp like the Arrow. It works great with my iBasso T3D.


----------



## wuwhere

My USB DAC Cable arrived today, just 3 days, including the weekend (the USPS stamp says Mar. 5th). That's excellent shipping time. Off the bat on my Pico amp, its very good listening on my ER4P APS recabled. Very detailed. Good stuff.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems I offended someone by posting a picture linked above. Sorry about that, I was just trying to confirm the LOD._

 

posting a picture is fine of course, but editing out the original location, however, is offensive. I've had that happen before and I take it that if it happens again, I really should watermark the entire image, but that ruins the image and I don't like to do it. 

 But, if it does keep happening (where the logo is taken out and the picture edited), it will happen.


----------



## PANGES

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zappp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dear Average Joe,

 some images show iPod touch or iPhone with a very compact line out adapter, where the cable exits on the side, combined with an angled 3.5mm plug. Where you got that from?

 Z_

 

I'm guessing he most likely made it himself.


----------



## mesasone

There are a few companies selling them, if you have the scratch. RSA has a version for $125 I believe, and there is another company I saw (forget their name) which makes one similarly priced I believe.

 I had started a thread about contacting an OEM like iBasso or Fiio and seeing if they could make them, but the thread was deleted due to a misunderstanding. Jude was supposed to restore it, but I think he forgot. Didn't seem to be a terribly large amount of interest anyway.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Thecablepro.com and whiplashaudio.com both sell cables like that.


----------



## zappp

Sorry, but $120 for these cables is outrageous! There is even one for $260. I mean we talk about 1.5" of wire, a Neutrik jack and a slim iPod dock that alltogether retail for $10.


----------



## mesasone

I agree, although I think most of these LOD use fancy pants wires. As to whether they make an audible difference, well I remain highly skeptical.

 Unless somebody is manufacturing/mass producing a dock connector with the cable exiting perpendicular to the connector, making these from regular dock connectors can be quite labor intensive which may explain part of it.


----------



## rehabitat

diy and spend the difference on a decent soldering iron


----------



## zappp

Likely the Fiio L1 at about $10 is the cheapest commercially available LOD. I further believe that bottlenecks in any LOD design are the multiple, small soldering joints and the small contact areas between plugs and sockets. The absence of goldplating on the dock adapters already may cause nightmares among "high end" afficionados. That being said, any magic twist, shield, cryo treatment or massive precious metal on that 1.5" stretch of wire between dock adapter and 3.5mm jack hardly causes any noticeable difference.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zappp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, but $120 for these cables is outrageous! There is even one for $260. I mean we talk about 1.5" of wire, a Neutrik jack and a slim iPod dock that alltogether retail for $10._

 

Just be glad you're not locked in to the balanced Protector's world; you can't even burn the damn thing in with out dropping big bucks on a Whiplash balanced adapter for your headphones, which also may need to be converted!

 Not that's a bad thing, going balanced and all, I'm just sayin...

 But we're just talking regular iPod dock cables here right, not iMod? Head-direct has $30 and $50 options, but not with the side-exit thing.

 They also have a $20 solution along the lines of what I am planning for my iMod/Arrow rig:





 Of course I paid way more than $20 for this one (from ALO) being iMod and all, but I have a great diy right-angle cable that should work for the interconnect, just gotta get some of those bands now I guess!

 Speaking of those bands, kids size for the Arrow with a thin 5.5g full-size iPod?


----------



## dfkt




----------



## grokit

One of those is a Headstage Arrow, I'm sure of it!


----------



## Blackmore

Well, GoVibe Petite for sure, but also Magnum, can be called as direct competative, any impressions?
 Also would be interesting to know more about full size headphones, like GS1000, D7000, W5000 etc, driving by Arrow.

 THX


----------



## dfkt

I don't really see how the huge GoVibe Petite and Magnum bricks are direct competitors to the Arrow. Magnum does indeed have some features the Arrow has (but more rudimentary), both GoVibes have a DAC which the Arrow doesn't have, size-wise they're a lot bigger, and so on.

 (I might be a bit biased since the GoVibe Derringer is the worst amp I have heard, about on par with the FiiO E3 and clearly surpassed by the FiiO E5.)

 The Arrow is the only amp besides my Headsix that can drive UE11, SE530, e-Q7, and other difficult to drive IEMs without hiss or flaws - I wonder if the GoVibes can do so, but I somehow doubt it, as none of the other amps I've tested so far can handle these IEMs. As for full-sized phones, I will check how it drives my HD650 later on.


----------



## Blackmore

Thanks, however I am not in IEM "business", so, no problem for me here. I will be comparing two, Petite & Magnum, when my W5000 are in, but with Koss KSC75 and PortaPro's I dont hear much differences, when using in normal gain, but after switching to Middle, mean Magnum, the impact is better, plus the feeling that they become alive is obvious. One minpoint is the battery life, which gets way shorter than Petit's. 
 Have to say that Petite have had some use, while Magnum is on his first 20 hours. 
 About their size. They are small, very small, but fattier for sure, doenst bother me at all..
 I never tried Derringer, but even then, it must be not putted at the same level as both above, I think.


----------



## dfkt




----------



## cn11

^^ Stop making me jealous while mine takes day after day to arrive. :0(


----------



## dfkt

I think I have to make you even more jealous... the Arrow is everything I hoped it to be - no hiss, excellent linearity, awesome subtle crossfeed (better than Rockbox), juicy bass boost.


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I have to make you even more jealous... the Arrow is everything I hoped it to be - no hiss, excellent linearity, awesome subtle crossfeed (better than Rockbox), juicy bass boost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Arrrrrr, nooooo, you don't play fair.... Eh, well they do say good things come to those who wait.

 I bet it's nice having the capability to boost the bass outside of the DAP. I've been wanting a decent portable with that feature for a long time. How is the quality of the boost? On par with the way Sony's 'clear bass' sounds? I like how their boost doesn't muddy up the sound too much (until you hit +3).


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I have to make you even more jealous... the Arrow is everything I hoped it to be - no hiss, excellent linearity, awesome subtle crossfeed (better than Rockbox), juicy bass boost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I'm glad you hear it to be everything I have. I look forward to your impressions with the HD650s as I think the Arrow's ability to drive such a wide variety of headphones without missing a beat (pardon the pun) really sets it apart. It truly is an exceptional (ultra)portable amp.


----------



## wuwhere

I just ordered an Arrow 12HE today. Where is the amp shipped from? My USB DAC Cable was shipped from California.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered an Arrow 12HE today. Where is the amp shipped from? My USB DAC Cable was shipped from California._

 


 Germany (AFAIK) as mine was. I think some of the smaller items are warehoused in California (but don't quote me).


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shigzeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_posting a picture is fine of course, but editing out the original location, however, is offensive. I've had that happen before and I take it that if it happens again, I really should watermark the entire image, but that ruins the image and I don't like to do it. 

 But, if it does keep happening (where the logo is taken out and the picture edited), it will happen._

 

I cropped your picture so it would fit better & didn't even read what was written on it (until you complained). Just to make you happy I've now used another person's picture of Qusp's LOD.

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Here's a picture (I took) from the other end of the spectrum than dfkt's portable set-up. I realize it's heresy to many to use a portable amp with this full sized gear, but but you have to hear it before you knock it!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Germany (AFAIK) as mine was. I think some of the smaller items are warehoused in California (but don't quote me)._

 

Thanks for the info. I still have to ship to them my trade-in hp amp which they won't receive until next week, good thing is its only California bound.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm glad you hear it to be everything I have. I look forward to your impressions with the HD650s as I think the Arrow's ability to drive such a wide variety of headphones without missing a beat (pardon the pun) really sets it apart. It truly is an exceptional (ultra)portable amp._

 

Reporting back - the Arrow indeed drives the HD650 not just fine, but perfectly. Poor Robert Gehrke, he will have a hard time designing a successor to the Arrow that is also an upgrade... I can't say I know of any other amp that drives the UE11 as well as the HD650.


----------



## cn11

That little sliver of an amp drives beasties like that? Wow.


----------



## soozieq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That little sliver of an amp drives beasties like that? Wow._

 

Stop drooling Chris. You're making a mess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Isn't your one arriving very very soon???


----------



## dfkt

Heh... on the downside, I can't say what the battery life will be, driving the HD650 at gain level 3 - probably not _quite _as much as driving IEMs at lowest gain.


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soozieq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stop drooling Chris. You're making a mess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Isn't your one arriving very very soon???_

 

I sure hope so! Sorry about the mess... I feel like a kid a Christmas time waiting for gift opening. Robert emailed me *last week* to ask if it had arrived yet. I'm afraid it must be hung up in customs.


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heh... on the downside, I can't say what the battery life will be, driving the HD650 at gain level 3 - probably not quite as much as driving IEMs at lowest gain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, I remember reading earlier that the higher gain settings do drain the battery much quicker. IEM's should only need setting 'I', right?


----------



## dfkt

Not sure if the gain level makes the most difference concerning the power drain, since the amp matches output power on its own already, to provide the best amount of voltage for the attached phone.

 To answer your question, yes, basically anything up to 150 Ohm from my stash runs well on the lowest gain setting. The HD650 runs already fine on the middle gain setting, and on the highest it can be driven already too loud for my taste.

 I might make a long-time test with the HD650, but in the end it's just a "look what I can do" feature, for my needs. Kind of defeats the purpose of a really slim and portable amp to use it with full-sized home-usage phones, in my opinion. You could use a huge brick like the Triad or whatnot with these kinds of cans, for example. I'm happy the Arrow drives any of my IEMs so well.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure if the gain level makes the most difference concerning the power drain, since the amp matches output power on its own already, to provide the best amount of voltage for the attached phone.

 To answer your question, yes, basically anything up to 150 Ohm from my stash runs well on the lowest gain setting. The HD650 runs already fine on the middle gain setting, and on the highest it can be driven already too loud for my taste._

 

I'd like to see some more discussion regarding the gain and impedance settings on the Arrow. For example, I have found that setting the gain so you can drive headphones a little "too loud" doesn't mean that you have to turn the volume up that far, but setting the gain this way does have a positive impact on SQ and frequency extension, to my ears at least. There is some interplay between the gain and impedance settings obviously, and it would be nice to have some set guidelines regarding adjustment of them, which aren't as "subjective" as the bass boost and crossfeed features.

 PS; I posted my initial impressions of the Arrow in the wrong thread (upon request) a couple of days ago; I have now moved it to this one instead of linking to it, and have linked to this copy from there:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How are you liking the sound on first listen?_

 

I am really digging it, thank you Robert for such a fine little product! 

 I am not a huge fan of any signal modification, but when it is of the well-executed hardware variety I don't mind it so much. The crossfeed is noticeable right off the bat and I can detect it at both settings, an experience I did not have with a Bithead I returned. I am leaving it off for now however.

 Thanks to the combination of the custom tips I just got and the bass boost of the Arrow, I am in love with my 8? year old ER-6is more than ever, all over again. The way they sound anyways, they are a royal pain to get in and out and set up with the new tips and earguides, but comfortable and secure enough in between, with fantastic isolation, which important with these "isolators". The bass improved with the customs slightly compared to the old Shure foams, but with the Arrow's bass boost on level II, it brought out a beast of a bass not I did not think the ER-6is could reproduce. The detail and extension I am hearing from them on both ends of the spectrum, along with a bigger soundstage and the always perfect mids are mind blowing. I have never heard a better Etytomic like the ER4, but I think I am in a way now.

 Now I am doing the A/B thing with my RE0/Hybrids, and while there is decent treble extension, the RE0s on first listen just don't seem to stand up to the "new and improved" ER-6is at all. Their overall clarity makes the RE0s sound if not muddy, then perhaps veiled by comparison, and the RE0s seem to have much less soundstage as well, which can lead to a congested sound during more complex passages. I am using the 1st gain boost on both, and it makes a big difference in SQ as well as volume to use the right gain setting I have noticed. I have settled on the 1st bass boost setting for the RE0s; they definitely sound warmer than the ER-6is.

 I am currently resisting grabbing my RE1s, as I am very curious to A/B them with the RE0s (which I have to admit are not fully burnt in yet), and I am saving what I am hoping to be the best-sounding IEM in my possession at the moment for last, my Tripl.fi 5 Pros. I have noticed that they have been sensitive to hiss with certain types of amplification, but so were the ER-6is and none was heard through the Arrow; it is very quiet.

 I sold my iBasso D4 a while ago so I only have my Simpl A1 to compare the Arrow with, and while I love the A1 I know what it is and what it is not, and the comparison is not worth making as the Arrow is a completely different beast. This is a killer amp by any measure, and while the iBasso was very clean sounding, it simply was a different type of creature as well; I actually didn't use it that much in 9v amp-only mode, I mostly used it like a uDac, which replaced it.

 To my ears, upon first impression the Arrow sounds very transparent, and I am looking forward to taking this little racecar of an amplifier it up the impedance onramp and onto the audiophile superhighway with my full-size cans on to see what's really under the hood of this baby! But I want to break the "engine" in carefully, so I will cycle through my IEMs slowly first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 note: the RE0s are already sounding better, but still, what a difference right off the bat

 edit: my experience with the Tf5 Pros was OK, I would put them right up there with the RE0s for sure, but they didn't blow me away as I had hoped. They have the same kind of dynamics as the Tf.10s, a little thin-sounding in between well-extended high and lows, with slightly recessed mids. Out of the four (non top-tier) IEMs I tried, I would say the SQ is a tie between the RE1s with no bass boost, which are very smooth and well balanced, and the ER-6i customs at bass boost II, which have great transparency and soundstage. The RE0s annd Tf5 Pros are not far behind, however. The nod goes to the RE1s at this point, as they are easier to use and therefore the first IEMs I grab for at this time for use with the Arrow.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 I might make a long-time test with the HD650, but in the end it's just a "look what I can do" feature, for my needs. Kind of defeats the purpose of a really slim and portable amp to use it with full-sized home-usage phones, in my opinion. You could use a huge brick like the Triad or whatnot with these kinds of cans, for example. 
 

_IF_ you have $600-$950 for a transportable! 
 I don't plan on using the Arrow with the 650s forever, but it's certainly an unexpectedly proficient amp to tide me over until I get a new desktop. I had a bad experience with a Perreaux SXH2 (which was a great sounding amp when it worked) and am hoping to go balanced for a significant improvement. The Arrow will serve double duty until I save enough. It's impossibly easy to move from room to room and source to source. I'm just happy not to have to listen to lesser cans until I get the new desktop. I don't own any IEMs (yet) and use PortaPros for on the go listening for now.


----------



## mesasone

Er, do you mean the SuperFi 5 Pro or the TripleFi 10 "Pro" (the pro moniker has been dropped from that model)?

 EDIT: Does this have the cool multicolor LED switch like the TTVJ portable? I've seen red and green so far, but IIRC the TTVJ switch can be a variety of colors (yellow, ultraviolet, etc) depending on the status of the battery. That seems like a really innovative, and aesthetically pleasing, way to display battery status.


----------



## Blackmore

I just bought one.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mesasone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Er, do you mean the SuperFi 5 Pro or the TripleFi 10 "Pro" (the pro moniker has been dropped from that model)?

 EDIT: Does this have the cool multicolor LED switch like the TTVJ portable? I've seen red and green so far, but IIRC the TTVJ switch can be a variety of colors (yellow, ultraviolet, etc) depending on the status of the battery. That seems like a really innovative, and aesthetically pleasing, way to display battery status._

 

The Arrow's sound does not degrade as the battery level drops. The switch "blinks" when charging is required. Green = off and charging; Orange = on and charging; Red = on (not charging)


----------



## cn11

I'm listening to mine right now. Arrived this afternoon to my desk at work.


----------



## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm listening to mine right now. Arrived this afternoon to my desk at work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So, how does it compare with the Rx already? J/K, I know you need more time. I can't wait to get my Slim to see how the 2 compare.


----------



## DaeO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, how does it compare with the Rx already? J/K, I know you need more time. I can't wait to get my Slim to see how the 2 compare._

 

Even I can't wait for YOU to get your Slim to compare the 2 - for the rest of us


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm listening to mine right now. Arrived this afternoon to my desk at work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

DUDE! Congrats! Enjoy cn11. You've been waiting a long time. I'm looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I remember reading earlier that the higher gain settings do drain the battery much quicker. IEM's should only need setting 'I', right?_

 

Folks, I got 30 hours from my first charge - all on the GAIN III, IMP O. Half-and-half Shure SE530s and Sennheiser HD500As. The Shures just seem to benefit, at least to my ears from the higher gain, allowing me to turn down the volume on my DAP a bit and use the Arrow's.

 Like dkft implied, battery life is likely impacted by the headphone voltage needs. I bet Robert could give us a bitchen 'splainin'.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered an Arrow 12HE today. Where is the amp shipped from? My USB DAC Cable was shipped from California._

 

Hey wuwhere, I'm not sure if anyone responded to you. Mine shipped from Germany. I think most of us who have received ours Arrows received them from Germany. This really belongs in the "Where oh where" thread though.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey wuwhere, I'm not sure if anyone responded to you. Mine shipped from Germany. I think most of us who have received ours Arrows received them from Germany. This really belongs in the "Where oh where" thread though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Or "where nowhere" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Hellenback already did. When I emailed Robert on where to send my trade in amp, he replied within minutes. I guess his response time is dependent on whether he is on-line or not.


----------



## cn11

One of the smartest things about this little beastie of an amp is the inclusion of a second input on the opposite end panel. Brilliant. 

 I'm using it on medium gain, and man, so far it's wonderful. I'll reserve more in depth observations until it's settled in a bit. Seems it's already opening up though. I think the soundstage may be wider than the ALO Rx. And I love having the bass tweaking ability on the amp. Means I could feasibly get some help in the low end with all earphones, and any DAP. Very very cool. 

 Now I just need that dern ALO Sony line out cable! But synergy is already awesome between my MD's, Sony X, and the Arrow with just running a mini to mini from the X's headphone out.


----------



## Gridlinked

Well, I finally got around to ordering one myself. It's going to be a long 2-3 week wait, but it'll give me time to find a iPod 5/5.5g.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mesasone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Er, do you mean the SuperFi 5 Pro or the TripleFi 10 "Pro" (the pro moniker has been dropped from that model)?_

 

The Super.fi 5 Pros, not to be confused with the non-Pros, or the EB models of the Super.fi.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gridlinked* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I finally got around to ordering one myself. It's going to be a long 2-3 week wait, but it'll give me time to find a iPod 5/5.5g._

 

It may be there quicker than you think as Robert has decided to go with a faster shipping service.


----------



## Gridlinked

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grokit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It may be there quicker than you think as Robert has decided to go with a faster shipping service._

 

That is good to know. Though, when I checked out there was a message saying there's a two week lead time before it ships. However, it could just have been a generic message to cover any unforeseen delays.


----------



## Avenger_Zero

Hey! This is my first post. I've read trought the whole thread. The Arrow seems to be a nice portable Amp and maybe a good (and not to pricey) upgrade to my cheap cmoy-amp for my Shure In-Ears and my new AKG 701, which I get tomorrow. Has anyone tested these headphones? Sure I could buy the Arrow without any testings or reviews but I am a poor student and 200€ are a big position for me!


----------



## cn11

How about an after dinner amp... it's wafer thin! 



 *couldn't resist*


----------



## wuwhere

I have a little over 50hrs on my USB DAC cable and it sounds pretty good. With my Headamp Pico, the mids can be fatiguing after some time. Just a little too forward for my taste. However, with RSA Tomahawk, its just right, listening to an ER4P APS re-cabled.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grokit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It may be there quicker than you think as Robert has decided to go with a faster shipping service._

 

It may not, I ordered my HE around 4 weeks ago and still not receive it yet and Robert did not reply my last two emails.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about an after dinner amp... it's wafer thin! 



 *couldn't resist*_

 

LOL. Dude, you are punchy since receiving yours. Wafer thin, indeed. But it doesn't have an eating disorder. It eats whatever you throw at it.

 @AVenger_Zero, I'm certain it will drive your AKGs just fine. It drives my 150 Ohms Senns past my comfort level and turns my 32 Ohms Shure SE530s into full range wonders. And someone here (Hellenback maybe?) is driving some 650s. You will not be disappointed.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It may not, I ordered my HE around 4 weeks ago and still not receive it yet and Robert did not reply my last two emails._

 

Yours sounds like part of the problem batch sent out via the German postal system on 2/12 that caused Robert to switch to EMS for international shipments shortly afterwords. Mine went out a few days later on the 17th via post, (just received a couple of days ago) and I think it was pretty much EMS after that. Good luck with yours!

 I must say that my RE1/Arrow/lossless portable rig has now surpassed my Grado/desktop amp in my upstairs desktop setup


----------



## rehabitat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@AVenger_Zero, I'm certain it will drive your AKGs just fine. It drives my 150 Ohms Senns past my comfort level and turns my 32 Ohms Shure SE530s into full range wonders. And someone here (Hellenback maybe?) is driving some 650s. You will not be disappointed._

 

I'll post how it goes with my K601s in a week or so


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL. Dude, you are punchy since receiving yours. Wafer thin, indeed. But it doesn't have an eating disorder. It eats whatever you throw at it._

 

Yeah, for sure. Punchy since I'm quite content with my portable rig now. With the addition of the ALO Sony line out cable, it'll be perfect and done I think. I am most happy with the fact that you can have all these tweaking options with the amp, not on whatever DAP you're using. Therefore I can enjoy sound using iPlop (errr, ummm, iPod/iPhone I mean) stuff finally!


----------



## dfkt

Seems the big level 2 bass boost of the Arrow appears so tight and punchy because it starts quite low, doesn't muddy up the midrange as much as other bass boosters... yum.


----------



## cn11

I bet the Arrow would be a great match with DAP's with no sound tweaking capabilities, which supposedly are very clean sounding, like Zunes. If I'd been able to have this amp long ago, I'd have surely experimented with far more DAP's.


----------



## wuwhere

That bass booster should shoot some serious lows to my ER4P. My HE is still in order processing status.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bet the Arrow would be a great match with DAP's with no sound tweaking capabilities, which supposedly are very clean sounding, like Zunes. If I'd been able to have this amp long ago, I'd have surely experimented with far more DAP's._

 

That's exactly what I'm using it for, paired with my Cowon O2. While the O2 is the most botched and ass-backwards Cowon ever made, firmware-wise, it's somewhat "better" sounding than the rest (TI instead of Wolfson inside) and has very good video capabilities. It has none of Cowon's usual BBE sound enhancements in video mode - that's where the Arrow comes in more than handy.


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's exactly what I'm using it for, paired with my Cowon O2. While the O2 is the most botched and ass-backwards Cowon ever made, firmware-wise, it's somewhat "better" sounding than the rest (TI instead of Wolfson inside) and has very good video capabilities. It has none of Cowon's usual BBE sound enhancements in video mode - that's where the Arrow comes in more than handy._

 

Man, that's excellent to hear. The flexibility it offers other non-adjustable DAP's is one of its strongest aspects IMO. And with its gain selections, it is driving my recabled Ultrasone 780's spectacularly.


----------



## dfkt

The higher the gain setting, the more rolled off the bass, it seems. Didn't really hear a difference with my own ears, though. Maybe I need to listen more closely. But then again, I don't intend to use the highest gain level - and it gives people with less desire for bass something to play around with.


----------



## cn11

Yeah, I can't hear it either. Since I only can use my Sony with headphone out right now, I need gain III for my Ultrasones. But once I get the ALO line out, I'm hoping that it'll supply a louder cleaner signal and I can back it down to II even for the Ultrasones. 

 Sure sounds great though to my ears even on III.....the Ultrasones have never had such treble sparkle, and mid presence (when running straight out of the Sony X, the mids are noticeably more sucked back).


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The higher the gain setting, the more rolled off the bass, it seems. Didn't really hear a difference with my own ears, though. Maybe I need to listen more closely. But then again, I don't intend to use the highest gain level - and it gives people with less desire for bass something to play around with.




_

 

I like your frequency graphs for different settings. I didn't know why, but even when using the 650s I tend to use the second gain setting with volume a little higher. I think the first batch of Arrows had a slightly lower db Bass boost on the highest setting (9db as opposed to 12).
 Do you mind me asking what frequency response analyzer this is?


----------



## dfkt

I used RMAA for those graphs. I also use ARTA to double-check, and because it's real-time.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used RMAA for those graphs. I also use ARTA to double-check, and because it's real-time._

 

Thanks very much...and freeware to boot ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Just thought I'd mention this; Robert might not believe his amp benefits from burn in, but I'm either hearing things or this amp has gotten better with some time. Bass response seems noticeably tighter/deeper. I'm always reluctant to make statements like this because of our susceptibility to placebo effect. I suppose becoming accustomed to an amp's particular sound can also account for at least _some_ of the perceived improvement .


----------



## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks very much...and freeware to boot ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Just thought I'd mention this; Robert might not believe his amp benefits from burn in, but I'm either hearing things or this amp has gotten better with some time. Bass response seems noticeably tighter/deeper. I'm always reluctant to make statements like this because of our susceptibility to placebo effect. I suppose becoming accustomed to an amp's particular sound can also account for at least some of the perceived improvement ._

 






 I 100% think this amp (as all others I have heard as well as op amps when rolling) benefit from burn in! One other thing that has really grown for me is the soundstage. And even with the bass boost off (I had to check), the Arrow makes some of my lower end IEMs just crank out the bass, too much bass!


----------



## dfkt

I've dumped a boatload of RMAA tests of the Arrow on my server, feel free trying to make any sense of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Scroll past the folders, down to the HTML files: Index of ./Various/


----------



## prone2phone

does that mean fiio e5 is better or what?!


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 One other thing that has really grown for me is the soundstage 
 

x2


----------



## dfkt

Yeah, I'm a sucker for soundstage as well, and the Arrow opened my IE8/O2 combo up like I haven't heard it before. 

 Before I used an iBasso T4 between the O2 and IE8, and while it didn't make the sound worse, it didn't improve anything over the headphone out of the O2 - I just used it as a bass booster. Now, unfortunately, my worst player which I just use for watching videos in bed is unfortunately my best sounding rig, and I found myself shlepping that POS out on the streets, thanks to the Arrow...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prone2phone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does that mean fiio e5 is better or what?!_

 

Like, totally!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

How do you use an O2 on the Arrow? I have an electrostatic amp for mine.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you use an O2 on the Arrow? I have an electrostatic amp for mine._

 

haha he was talking about his Cowon O2 DAP


----------



## 3X0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you use an O2 on the Arrow? I have an electrostatic amp for mine._

 

I think he means the Cowon O2 PMP.


----------



## dfkt

Indeed, sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 does that mean fiio e5 is better or what?! 
 

Like, totally! 



 Not sure what you are trying to say here... surely not that the Fiio 5 performs as well as the Arrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you mean using it in conjunction with the Arrow improves the sound of a particular PMP?


----------



## shaggy

newb question . . . 

 Would this amp fit well with an iPod Classic and Ultrasone Pro 750?


----------



## zeeter

This being my first amp and all I can't offer an expert opinion or get very technical, but I will say this. I've been listening to a bunch of different music ("Janis Joplin - Me and Bobby Mcgee" as I type this). All kinds of rock/metal/electronic...

 I'm using the Arrow, Headstage USB DAC cable, and Senn 595's, listening to Flacs/MP3's in Foobar. The soundstage is incredible. It's like nothing I've experienced before. There are so many parts in songs that are "haunting" now. Like I've literally gotten shivers. I'm definitely enjoying it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think Robert has a winner with this one.


----------



## chrisplusk

How well would this amp be expected to work with a Cowon i9? Comparable to O2+Arrow?


----------



## shigzeo

Should work well with the i9, just find optimal output volume with no effects on. Cowons tend to have good signals, so maybe top volume or back off by one and input and what ever volume you want from the Arrow. Should work fine. Cowons are very good for amping.


----------



## mesasone

I've found that if you're not using much by way of effects or EQ, that max volume works well on my S9. I assume it would be the same on the i9. I have some light EQing to help bring up the mids on my TF10 and it doesn't seem to present any problems. But if you use the presets like Mach3Bass or whatever, you seem to have to back off the volume a few ticks to avoid distortion.


----------



## dfkt

The Wolfson DAC-equipped Cowons work indeed fine without distortion on their highest volume level. For heavier effects like ViVA 2 and such I use volume 35/40 as output level on my S9/i9. It works fine without clipping and still has most of the dynamic range the DAC can provide.


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeeter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This being my first amp and all I can't offer an expert opinion or get very technical, but I will say this. I've been listening to a bunch of different music ("Janis Joplin - Me and Bobby Mcgee" as I type this). All kinds of rock/metal/electronic...

 I'm using the Arrow, Headstage USB DAC cable, and Senn 595's, listening to Flacs/MP3's in Foobar. The soundstage is incredible. It's like nothing I've experienced before. There are so many parts in songs that are "haunting" now. Like I've literally gotten shivers. I'm definitely enjoying it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*I think Robert has a winner with this one.*_

 

He really does, with its combination of useful features, and the price which is $100 cheaper than the other ultra slim/small portables that have hit lately.


----------



## DaeO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He really does, with its combination of useful features, and the price which is $100 cheaper than the other ultra slim/small portables that have hit lately._

 

But if you could only choose one of these slim/small portables, which would you choose, and why? Mmmmmm....................


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaeO* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But if you could only choose one of these slim/small portables, which would you choose, and why? Mmmmmm...................._

 

I had to and did (hence the comments in this and other Arrow threads).

 I haven't heard the Pico Slim but if it isn't an improvement on the original Pico I prefer the Arrow. The SQ is pretty close, (likely due to the same op-amp in both of these well implemented amps) but (IMO) the Arrow stomps it on value, features and form factor. I've compared the Tomahawk and the iBasso T4 and although good amps, they just don't do it like the Arrow does. I haven't heard the Shadow but it's a specific design for IEMs so if you could only choose one...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. From what other respected members have said, it seems the Arrow is every bit as good or better with low imp IEMs as any of the other amps released at this time.


----------



## cn11

Agreed Hellenback. I haven't heard some of the other amps you have (but I have heard the Shadow- and the Arrow betters it from my memory), but do own the Rx. To my ears the Arrow is sonically very very close to the Rx, if not the equal, and can drive my Ultrasones better with its adjustable gain. Plus, if you consider the form factor, features which follow the amp to whatever DAP you care to throw at it, and the price, you wind up with a winning combination.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 To my ears the Arrow is sonically very very close to the Rx, if not the equal, and can drive my Ultrasones better with its adjustable gain 
 

 Good to hear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 considering the $ of the ALO! (not to mention lack of features set on the Rx)


----------



## shaggy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can drive my Ultrasones better with its adjustable gain_

 

I'm really considering purchasing the arrow as my first amp. Would the $250 be worth the increase in SQ vs the Classic+Ultrasones unamped?(I bought the Pro 750s for less, so I'm a little hesitant to spend more on such a little amp)


----------



## cn11

I would say a big yes. Make sure you have a line out cable though. Using the Arrow with my iPhone is quite a revelation, since the iPhone on its own sounds rather hollow and congested, with no power to drive deep bass passages. Also, other high quality portables I've heard that are in the same league in terms of SQ seem to go for at least $100 more. 

 That's just my .02 though of course..... 

 If you try it and really don't care for it for the cash outlay, you can always post it FS. Since it's such a new item I'm sure it would get snapped up quickly.


----------



## shaggy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would say a big yes. Make sure you have a line out cable though. Using the Arrow with my iPhone is quite a revelation, since the iPhone on its own sounds rather hollow and congested, with no power to drive deep bass passages. Also, other high quality portables I've heard that are in the same league in terms of SQ seem to go for at least $100 more. 

 That's just my .02 though of course..... 

 If you try it and really don't care for it for the cash outlay, you can always post it FS. Since it's such a new item I'm sure it would get snapped up quickly._

 

Thanks for the input, my 2009 Classic and Pro 750s sound surprisingly well unamped, but I can tell where they're lacking, so im just a little concerned the Arrow wont enough of a difference. However, from what I have read the Arrow appears to be nothing short of miraculous, so I guess it would be a good investment, especially I actually get "portable" cans. Like you pointed out, I will definitely have to DIY or buy one of those low profile LODs.

 If I wanted to use the arrow with laptop, would the Nuforce uDAC or the Headstage USB DAC cable be a better value? I also intend to DIY a desktop amp some time in the future that I would probably use with one of those . . .


----------



## dfkt

Not sure if the Headstage USB cable is better than the sound card you already have in your laptop, unless it's a really crappy sound card. Can't say anything about the Nuforce thing, but I guess these generic TI/Wolfson-based USB sound adapters are all pretty similar.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

the nuforce uDac uses the ESS Sabre dac chip, so if going by that alone, should be at least marginally better than the one in the dac cable, though it is also more money.


----------



## cn11

Shaggy-
 Unfortunately I don't have any experience with stand alone DAC's (thankfully, yet another area to destroy the wallet). But I have been reading great things about that NuForce uDac. Seems to be a very nice bit of gear for not a whole lot of money.


----------



## shaggy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure if the Headstage USB cable is better than the sound card you already have in your laptop, unless it's a really crappy sound card. Can't say anything about the Nuforce thing, but I guess these generic TI/Wolfson-based USB sound adapters are all pretty similar._

 

My soundcard seems pretty good to my ears, In device manager it says "NVIDIA high definition audio." Definitely better than the classic+Pro750s unamped. I'm pretty new to the whole audiophile thing but I thought a DAP would be a good investment since I plan on buying/DIYing a desktop amp sometime.

  Quote:


 the nuforce uDac uses the ESS Sabre dac chip, so if going by that alone, should be at least marginally better than the one in the dac cable, though it is also more money. 
 

only marginally? Are you sure . . . I think we need some direct comparisons
Oh where, oh where has my slim Arrow gone, oh where, oh where can he be? - Page 20 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

  Quote:


 Unfortunately I don't have any experience with stand alone DAC's (thankfully, yet another area to destroy the wallet). But I have been reading great things about that NuForce uDac. Seems to be a very nice bit of gear for not a whole lot of money. 
 

My thoughts exactly. I brought it up since I read a lot of people ordered the USB DAC cable in addition to the Arrow. I'm curious if the uDAC is a better alternative if I intend to use a better amp than the Arrow eventually. However most likely I will put off the DAC purchase if I do end buying the Arrow.


----------



## Chez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gridlinked* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I finally got around to ordering one myself. It's going to be a long 2-3 week wait, but it'll give me time to find a iPod 5/5.5g._

 

Please post your impressions once you get the amp, as i have a set of W3s and am considering this amp for use with my iPhone 3gs.


----------



## average_joe

This amp works awesome with my DIY film cap 5.5g as it has impressive space. When paired with my iPhone 3G it is nice, but just not the same. Of course the Arrow sounds better with all my IEMs from the Arrow than the iPhone because of the impact and control, except with the TF10, which I think the 3G matches with much better (bring the mids forward). The Arrow is brighter than the 3G, and I would guess a better match for a W3.


----------



## Gridlinked

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please post your impressions once you get the amp, as i have a set of W3s and am considering this amp for use with my iPhone 3gs._

 

Will do. I ended up splurging on a 32gb Ipod Touch 3g instead of trying to find a 5g in good condition. 

 Regarding the iPhone, someone earlier in the thread mentioned that he was getting some popping and clicking when using his Arrow with his iPhone, and ended up using other sources.


----------



## average_joe

Yes, I get noises from both my Blackberry and iPhone, even when in the vicinity. But I also get the same thing to a lesser extent with the Shadow from my blackberry.


----------



## Chez

Well, I was planning on getting a longish LOD cable and keeping the amp in an inside pocket, with the iphone in an outside pocket or my jeans/trouser pocket.

 Would this eliminate the issue?

 I was thinking of using it like this as I don't really want an amp strapped to my phone. If it was just an iPod, fair enough, but it's a phone and i use it as such lol

 This raises another question for me. When using line outm, do calls get routed to the amp instead of the built in earpiece?

 The way I use my phone currently, I tend to either answer the call and hold the phone up near my face to use the built in mic with my IEMs or just pull the earphones out and use the phone. I'm assuming that if I pulled the LOD out, the call would be automatically re-routed to the iPhone earpiece as it is currently?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I get noises from both my Blackberry and iPhone, even when in the vicinity. But I also get the same thing to a lesser extent with the Shadow from my blackberry._

 

How does the Arrow compares with the Shadow?


----------



## DaeO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please post your impressions once you get the amp, as i have a set of W3s and am considering this amp for use with my iPhone 3gs._

 

X2 (with W2's)


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the Arrow compares with the Shadow?_

 

The Shadow drives sensitive iem fine but it seems like not enough juicy to drive my jh13 while the arrow does have enough to drive it properly. it is not a fair comparison, as the arrow is much bigger than the shadow.

 the arrow is on par or maybe a little better than the mustang.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Shadow drives sensitive iem fine but it seems like not enough juicy to drive my jh13 while the arrow does have enough to drive it properly. it is not a fair comparison, as the arrow is much bigger than the shadow.

 the arrow is on par or maybe a little better than the mustang._

 

jc, thanks. I'll only be using the Arrow (once I received it) on ER4S/P which are not sensitive IEMs, relatively.


----------



## average_joe

The 3G can be closer than the Blackberry without interference, and a long LOD cable should work if they are say 6" apart (but I am not guaranteeing that statement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).

 Both the Shadow and Arrow have different sound signatures, with the Arrow bring warmer and brighter. The Shadow has a little more mid forwardness, but is really very close. The Arrow does seem to have more bass oomph (without the bass boost on) and better control. Also, I think the soundstage is a little wider with the Arrow.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I get noises from both my Blackberry and iPhone, even when in the vicinity. But I also get the same thing to a lesser extent with the Shadow from my blackberry._

 

FWIW - I deliberately place my BlueBerry Curve less than a foot away from my Arrow/Zune 80 combo and I don't hear any interference. Could be my ridiculously, chasitity-like shielding on my four inch IC, but who knows. It could be different phone models. Nonetheless, it's an odd user experience inconsistency thing.

 -Ogre


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Both the Shadow and Arrow have different sound signatures, with the Arrow bring warmer and brighter. The Shadow has a little more mid forwardness, but is really very close. The Arrow does seem to have more bass oomph (without the bass boost on) and better control. Also, I think the soundstage is a little wider with the Arrow._

 

Thanks. That sounds all good. I was contemplating on getting a Shadow in the future that's why I asked.


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 3G can be closer than the Blackberry without interference, and a long LOD cable should work if they are say 6" apart (but I am not guaranteeing that statement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 Both the Shadow and Arrow have different sound signatures, *with the Arrow bring warmer and brighter*. The Shadow has a little more mid forwardness, but is really very close. The Arrow does seem to have more bass oomph (without the bass boost on) and better control. Also, I think the soundstage is a little wider with the Arrow._

 

I don't understand how something can be 'warmer and brighter'. Elaborate please.


----------



## Hellenback

I was a little confused by that particular description as well. "Full and detailed" maybe? It_ is_ a full sounding amp with plenty of _detail _even if on the warm side. The AD8397 op-amp seems to me to be relatively warm sounding; though it sounds different fed by different DACs/sources. Kind of an oxymoron without further explanation.


----------



## average_joe

Both interrupted and typing in haste (and now blackberry typing)...

 The Shadow is fairly neutral with a little mid focus, but not much. The Arrow on the other hand seems to have more low end weight and at the same time a little more treble amplitude than the Shadow. Does that make more sense?

 @ cn11: have you had a chance to compare the Rx and Arrow more?


----------



## Hellenback

I don't know about the Shadow, but I find the mids on the Arrow just about as good as I've heard from a portable amp.

 PS: I have to admit to not liking _forward_ or bright sounding anything.


----------



## average_joe

I was referring to sound signature, not sound quality. i.e. the TF10 sounds much better to me with the Shadow than other amps because it fills in the recessed TF10 mids. The Arrow can make lower end IEM that have a lot of bass to start with waaaaayyyy too bassy!

 And next week I should have the time to do an in depth comparison of the Arrow and Shadow.


----------



## average_joe

oops, stupid blackberry


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know about the Shadow, but I find the mids on the Arrow just about as good as I've heard from a portable amp.

 PS: I have to admit to not liking forward or bright sounding anything._

 

I'm totally with you on the not liking bright stuff at all. And I hear the Arrow the same way... leaning more toward the warm side, with very very rich mids. It doesn't sound bright to me in the least. If anything, it's rather polite and unassuming, and can strike you as something *almost* ordinary until you spend some time with it and compare it to other gear. The detail is there, but the bass is wonderful and the soundstage.... ohhhhhh man.... The whole sonic picture to me is very open, natural, and totally non-aggressive.


----------



## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't understand how something can be 'warmer and brighter'. Elaborate please._

 

Ok, back to this. Re-read my post, I did not say the arrow was bright, I said in comparison with the shadow, it has more treble amplitude (and used the commonly accepted term "bright" to express this). And at the same time the lower octaves also have more ampliude. In both cases this is being compared to the mid presentation.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 The whole sonic picture to me is very open, natural, and totally non-aggressive. 
 

A very good description of what I hear as well. 
 There have been a few eyebrows lifted at my use of it with the HD650s but they pair surprisingly well. I _do_ look forward to a very good desktop (as I've said) but this skinny little guy keeps impressing me. Burned some 24-192 Neil Young Blu-Ray tracks and all I can say is......WOW! Sound like this from a portable has me wondering what I'm going to have to spend on a desktop!


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A very good description of what I hear as well. 
 There have been a few eyebrows lifted at my use of it with the HD650s but they pair surprisingly well. I do look forward to a very good desktop (as I've said) but this skinny little guy keeps impressing me. Burned some 24-192 Neil Young Blu-Ray tracks and all I can say is......WOW! Sound like this from a portable has me wondering what I'm going to have to spend on a desktop! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You keep saying that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's quite possible, Hellenback, that Robert and his Arrow have induced a paradigm shift. You may have to go out of your way to _not_ spend what you think you have to in order to achieve the SQ you desire. (That's me trying to sound smart like you guys what with all your, "amplitude" and "signature" speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 I tried something different today, clipped the small, third flange off my triples, set the Arrow's IMP from 0 to I to dial back the highs a bit and crammed the IEMs in deep. I think I may have to get used to the slight discomfort. After hours and hours of time with the Arrow and Shures, I noticed a low low hiss I hadn't noticed before. The IMP I setting got rid of it, and I've still got the highs I want to hear and the bass took on a different characteristic. Dare I say bass forward? Mids are still meaty and ridiculous.

 My Shure E3Cs and I are becoming friends again. For a while I couldn't stand how flat and tinny they sounded. The Arrow does more for them than it does for the triple-driver SE530s. I can understand Average_Joe's point about lower end IEMs becoming to bassy. But with the E3Cs, the Arrow gives them just the right amount on BASS II.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 "amplitude" and "signature" 
 

Bet you can't find one post where I used those terms 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And right again. I have tried a couple of lower end desktops and I wouldn't buy/use them over the Arrow. What I've been trying to say is that when I _do_ buy a new desktop amp I'm going to have to spend more than anticipated for a significant improvement. A good friend is bringing over his balanced LD VII/Dac1 set-up next week and we'll see if I spring for that ($700 with tax).


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I've been trying to say is that when I do buy a new desktop amp I'm going to have to spend more than anticipated for a significant improvement._

 

Ahhh, let me clarify. What _I_ meant is that perhaps we'll come to expect more for less now.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahhh, let me clarify. What I meant is that perhaps we'll come to expect more for less now._

 


 I agree the Arrow has upped the ante when it comes to what people should expect from a portable (if they can put aside their "name brand bragging rights" in favor of SQ at a more reasonable price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )
 I meant something similar when I implied I'd have to buy a *better* desktop for really significant improvement. The post wasn't very clear but I _was_ agreeing with you.


----------



## JOEYBUCKETS

YES, mine shipped yesterday


----------



## PANGES

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JOEYBUCKETS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_YES, mine shipped yesterday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

When did you place your order?


----------



## Gridlinked

Yay! Mine's shipped as well, and only a little over a week since I placed my order.


----------



## jc9394

You guys are lucky, I waited over a month from day I ordered to receive.


----------



## wuwhere

I ordered on the 10th, March, mine is still under order processing status. Can't wait to listen to this little thing sing.


----------



## feverfive

Just curious if anyone is currently using an Arrow w/ a 6th Gen 160GB iPod Classic... I'm wondering what solution you chose to hold the Arrow + Classic together (i.e. velcro strap, silicone band). If silicone band, what size/circumference (& where did you get it)? Just ordered an Arrow, and am already giddy w/ expectation.


----------



## Bennyboy71

A question for those who know about these things:

 I'm currently running my ER4S (stock unmodded) through a line out cable into a Headsix from my iPod Classic. 

 I could stretch to upgrading the Headsix to the Arrow, but only really if it would be worth it. What do you think? Worth a punt?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just curious if anyone is currently using an Arrow w/ a 6th Gen 160GB iPod Classic... I'm wondering what solution you chose to hold the Arrow + Classic together (i.e. velcro strap, silicone band). If silicone band, what size/circumference (& where did you get it)? Just ordered an Arrow, and am already giddy w/ expectation._

 

Why not add these to your Arrow order. Headphonia.com - Tesa Powerstrips
 You'd likely get them cheaper if you asked nicely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I use the small circular Velcro dots, but it makes the things a little thicker. I wish I'd thought of getting the strips as they leave no residue, won't separate accidentally as they need a good pry to get apart (or you can leave a little ""handle" sticking out and pull it to separate components). Kind of like extra strong two-sided tape from what I understand.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bennyboy71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A question for those who know about these things:

 I'm currently running my ER4S (stock unmodded) through a line out cable into a Headsix from my iPod Classic. 

 I could stretch to upgrading the Headsix to the Arrow, but only really if it would be worth it. What do you think? Worth a punt?_

 

I haven't heard a Headsix but it's often compared to the Tomahawk. I heard the Arrow to be a step up from the Tomahawk In SQ, ergonomics and features. Quality amps aren't usually night and day SQ wise (especially if they use the same op-amp) but you'd likely get a good price for your head-six and I haven't heard of anyone who's been disappointed with the Arrow. I know I certainly wouldn't trade mine for another portable.


----------



## holylucifer

I have ordered my usb dac + headstage arrow 12he and looking forward to how well it will drive my dt 48... plus it will look sexy along with this asus eee pc 1005 p .


----------



## grokit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just curious if anyone is currently using an Arrow w/ a 6th Gen 160GB iPod Classic... I'm wondering what solution you chose to hold the Arrow + Classic together (i.e. velcro strap, silicone band). If silicone band, what size/circumference (& where did you get it)? Just ordered an Arrow, and am already giddy w/ expectation._

 

I'm using that exact same setup temporarily and I can show you here that the "youth" sized silicone bands are way too big. However, broccoli bands are just right, and if you get the right ones they can sound more "organic":


----------



## Trapper32

*[size=large]Broccoli is evil[/size]*


----------



## Gridlinked

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*[size=large]Broccoli is evil[/size]*_

 

I'd usually agree but lately the broccoli I've had in the beef with garlic sauce from my local chinese take out has been delicious. Other than that broccoli the rest of it is evil


----------



## SoupRKnowva

as long as it is steamed properly broccoli is pretty much delicious, but i digress, we are pretty OT, i do like the idea though, ill have to hit up the commissary to get one of those bands


----------



## Shauntell47

The Headstage Arrow deal has just gotten even better, price has been reduced to 249$/175€....

 Now i'm getting one for sure...


----------



## jc9394

it is 249 for a long while...


----------



## cn11

Right, that's what I paid as well. I think it represents really great value. With the $100-150 difference (to most other high end portables' prices), you're able to pick up a quality LOD.


----------



## Shauntell47

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it is 249 for a long while..._

 

hmm, well i'm sure it cost 199€ until today... so i guess only the europeans profit from this offer since 175€ is around 236$ at the moment...


----------



## DaeO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shauntell47* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm, well i'm sure it cost 199€ until today... so i guess only the europeans profit from this offer since 175€ is around 236$ at the moment..._

 

Definately 199€ until now, although the trade in now doesn't accept 'any other make' for 40€ saving


----------



## Bennyboy71

Ordered myself one at the new rate today. It looks so good I may have sex with it.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bennyboy71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordered myself one at the new rate today. It looks so good I may have sex with it._

 

Eew!


----------



## jc9394

how many of you are using the crossfeed feature?


----------



## JOEYBUCKETS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PANGES* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When did you place your order?_

 


 Feb 19th


----------



## JOEYBUCKETS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bennyboy71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordered myself one at the new rate today. It looks so good I may have sex with it._

 

make sure you use protection


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how many of you are using the crossfeed feature?_

 

I've played around with it some, but I'm enjoying it off more than not. It seems to mess up the separation to my ears. Things just sound a little more dynamic with it off for me.


----------



## dfkt

I find the crossfeed excellent for 1950/60ies hard-panned music, and for surround-downmixed movie stuff as well. But for well recorded modern music it's not really beneficial to my ears.


----------



## zyThuM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've played around with it some, but I'm enjoying it off more than not. It seems to mess up the separation to my ears. Things just sound a little more dynamic with it off for me._

 

Hi cn11, I have the Sony X and I'm going to get a MTP Copper in one of these days.
 I know that the Coppers are slightly different from the Miles Davis, but I would like to know what is opinion about the synergy of them with the Arrow HE?

 Thanks


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zyThuM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi cn11, I have the Sony X and I'm going to get a MTP Copper in one of these days.
 I know that the Coppers are slightly different from the Miles Davis, but I would like to know what is opinion about the synergy of them with the Arrow HE?

 Thanks_

 

The X/Arrow/MD rig is darn near perfect to me. The Arrow broadens the X's soundstage and makes it more 3D. Bass is more controlled and deeper, and there's more space between instruments. The MD's are revealing enough that you really hear these difference over running them straight out of the X. I think my search for the ideal portable rig is finally over with this setup. So yeah, the synergy is very very nice to say the least.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 I find the crossfeed excellent for 1950/60ies hard-panned music, and for surround-downmixed movie stuff as well. But for well recorded modern music it's not really beneficial to my ears. 
 

This has has been my experience as well (with any cross-feed on any amp). It's very nice to have for those recordings that require it though.


----------



## justanut

Anyone tried using crossfeed with mono tracks like the Beetles? What's the result? I find mono tracks sorely lacking in soundstage and instrumental clarity (comparing the Beetles mono and stereo remastered tracks).. Does crossfeeding help in anyway?


----------



## grokit

I just noticed that there is now an owner's manual/user guide posted for the Arrow, very concise and informative; thanks for that Robert!


----------



## grokit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how many of you are using the crossfeed feature?_

 

I demoed both settings at first, didn't use either for awhile, and have come back to settle on setting I. 

 I leave it on all the time now as I think it improves imaging and decreases fatigue, I find it pleasantly "natural" I suppose.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justanut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone tried using crossfeed with mono tracks like the Beetles? What's the result? I find mono tracks sorely lacking in soundstage and instrumental clarity (comparing the Beetles mono and stereo remastered tracks).. Does crossfeeding help in anyway?_

 

It didn't make sense to me that cross-feed would do anything for mono recordings, as the information in both channels is the same. Just in case I was missing something I checked for you with The Beatles mono and it makes no difference to my ears (as I had assumed). On the other hand, it greatly improves the listening experience over headphones with the _earlier_ hard left/right separated "stereo" recordings. I find them almost intolerable without it. It really seems to be a matter of personal preference with most well recorded music. That's why it is nice to have as an option.


----------



## justanut

Ah ok. Yeah my bad on the mono part.. was confused haha.

 And yeah I have Beetles on those hard left/right "stereo" recordings too and they're really torturous to listen to on phones. Speakers they're fine.

 Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## feverfive

Kind of a silly question perhaps, but is anyone here using their Arrow w/ an LOD terminted w/ a Viablue 3.5mm mini connector? Looking at pics of the Viablue, the housing part LOOKS thicker, maybe even thicker than the Arrow? I wouldn't want to set my Arrow on a tabletop & have pressure put on the mini plug housing...


----------



## average_joe

Yes, a ViaBlue connector is bigger in diameter than the Arrow is thick!


----------



## feverfive

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, a ViaBlue connector is bigger in diameter than the Arrow is thick!_

 

Thanks...well, looks like I'll have to research how to replace a Viablue mini w/ something slimmer. Yeah, that probably sounds pathetic to a bunch of DIY'ers, but I am the least handy guy I know. LOL, I'm sure I'll screw this up...

 I have an LOD on it's way to me, too late to change the order, and the vendor has already gone out of his way for me, so I'm not gonna ask him to take it back b/c I failed to research this before ordering.


----------



## ldaustin

As long as you don't plan on laying something heavy on top of the amp, I don't think the very slight difference in width will cause a problem. I have a LOD and headphone plug that are slightly wider than the Arrow and it has not been an issue for me.


----------



## gilency

is there any imbalance at low volumes when using IEM's? The Head six has some, the newer amps with digital volume don't have this issue.


----------



## feverfive

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ldaustin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As long as you don't plan on laying something heavy on top of the amp, I don't think the very slight difference in width will cause a problem. I have a LOD and headphone plug that are slightly wider than the Arrow and it has not been an issue for me._

 

I was just coming back here to ask that specific question, so thanks! Guess I can at least try it out for a while. I can always sell it here & get something else. I wish I had the skill/patience to make DIY LOD.


----------



## feverfive

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there any imbalance at low volumes when using IEM's? The Head six has some, the newer amps with digital volume don't have this issue._

 

I don't recall anyone mentioning that issue w/ the Arrow. I know I considered it for a bit when trying to decide between the Arrow & the Pico Slim. I then remembered I rarely listen at "low" volume (usually moderate, rarely "loud").


----------



## grokit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks...well, looks like I'll have to research how to replace a Viablue mini w/ something slimmer._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't want to set my Arrow on a tabletop & have pressure put on the mini plug housing..._

 

If you're worried about sitting it on a table, you could try something like this:





 Putting pads underneath plus velcro in between the amp and player would let you use the oversize viablue


----------



## feverfive

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grokit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you're worried about sitting it on a table, you could try something like this:





 Putting pads underneath plus velcro in between the amp and player would let you use the oversize viablue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ahh, yes, I didn't even consider that, thanks. I think I'll go that route.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there any imbalance at low volumes when using IEM's? The Head six has some, the newer amps with digital volume don't have this issue._

 

Mine's steering a bit towards the left channel at the lowest (audible only in absolutely silent surroundings) volume levels, but it's not a channel imbalance that zig-zags from one channel to the other, it's constant. It's a very, very well behaved volume control, better than all my other amps with analog pots.


----------



## ittius

Hey All

 I have just put an order through for an Arrow Amp and just wondering if any of you have used it with the UE tf10 Pro? 

 Ben


----------



## dfkt

No, but I've used it with the UE11.


----------



## grokit

And?


----------



## ittius

woops forgot to add the rest of the question.

 ok so the question do u notice any buzzing or unbalanced sound with the amp and IEM set up?

 Ben


----------



## dfkt

No buzz, no hiss, no imbalance.


----------



## 129207

I have received my Headstage Arrow just yesterday and haven't properly examined it but my first impressions are very positive. It makes my RE0 sound better than ever. Actually, it makes my RE0 sound so good I don't feel like upgrading my IEMs at this point. A MIRACLE!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 With this current portable setup, listening to Rome's "Flowers from Exile" watching the rain outside hit the window is intense and beautiful. 

 Setup:
 - Sony X1050 16gb, all music 320kbps
 - Sony X LOD
 - Headstage Arrow 12HE
 - Head Direct/Hifiman RE0 w. 100+ hours on 'em


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 No buzz, no hiss, no imbalance. 
 

Quite an accomplishment for an amp that can drive HD650s to a decent volume without distortion. I happen to like 650s but I'm pretty sure many lower ohm cans could achieve much more of their full potential with this little amp. I'd guess the automatic voltage regulation is largely responsible for it's versatility.


----------



## feverfive

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negakinu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have received my Headstage Arrow just yesterday and haven't properly examined it but my first impressions are very positive. It makes my RE0 sound better than ever. Actually, it makes my RE0 sound so good I don't feel like upgrading my IEMs at this point. A MIRACLE!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With this current portable setup, listening to Rome's "Flowers from Exile" watching the rain outside hit the window is intense and beautiful. 

 Setup:
 - Sony X1050 16gb, all music 320kbps
 - Sony X LOD
 - Headstage Arrow 12HE
 - Head Direct/Hifiman RE0 w. 100+ hours on 'em_

 

Did yours come w/ the proper case, or is Robert gonna have to send the correct case to you later?


----------



## 129207

I have a temporary case. It's a plain black case without print. I hope he sends out the proper cases soon.


----------



## Gridlinked

Mine arrived today and initial impressions are excellent. I'll need to do some more serious listening before I come to any real conclusions, but it definitely sounds great with my Westone 3's. That said, the soundstage does sound larger and the mids seem to have been brought forward to match the deep bass and sparkling treble of the W3's. My case is also blank but all the switches and connections are labeled on the amp ie no stickers.


----------



## grokit

I've had mine for a while now, and must say that I am really liking the adaptability and customization options on the 12HE (in addition to great sound, beucoup power without hiss, and a perfect form factor!).

 Today heard the really annoying "Revolution 9" from the Beatles White album, and the left/right panning seemed to actually slow down when I switched the crossfeed setting from I to II. Of course there isn't enough crossfeed in the world for that particular song, but I was impressed that I was able to notice the difference.

 The impedance and gain settings are all noticeable, and fun to play with different combinations when adjusting to different headphones.

 Thanks again Robert, great job! Good things sometimes do come to those who wait


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kind of a silly question perhaps, but is anyone here using their Arrow w/ an LOD terminted w/ a Viablue 3.5mm mini connector? Looking at pics of the Viablue, the housing part LOOKS thicker, maybe even thicker than the Arrow? I wouldn't want to set my Arrow on a tabletop & have pressure put on the mini plug housing..._

 

Hey feverfive,

 Here are some photos of my setup with a DIY cable with two Viablue connectors. The barrel/sleeve is a good millimeter or so thicker on either side than the Arrow, but it only matters on the side facing away from my DAP. For the Oreo center, I opted for the Velcro instead of the Powerstrip to provide a little buffer. It bugged me a little at first, but now not a bit. And the Viablues with the carbon Techflex and two devices just looks cool. FWIW - I haven't gone through Airport security with it yet though. I've probably seen too many movies, but it looks kinda like a remote detonator to me.

 -Ogre


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quite an accomplishment for an amp that can drive HD650s to a decent volume without distortion. I happen to like 650s but I'm pretty sure many lower ohm cans could achieve much more of their full potential with this little amp. I'd guess the automatic voltage regulation is largely responsible for it's versatility._

 

I completely agree. The little device is a marvel.

 I only hear slight hiss when using my SE530s with the GAIN on III and IMP on 0. However, it's quite tolerable, it's pushed way back and it's not high pitched. I understand that lower impedance, IEMs can produce horrible hiss when amplified, but when my Senns aren't feasible, the Shure/Arrow pairing is rich and they do indeed shine with their full potential (or close to it) Hellenback.

 I mainly use the IMP 0 setting to urge the most out of the highs. Mids need nothing and are absolutely nuclear. I usually use the BASS II setting, but sometimes, depending on the recording, I have to turn it down to I. The BASS is fat and tight though if that makes sense. I'm so glad I bought this amp. So are my Shures. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Ogre


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 I only hear slight hiss when using my SE530s with the GAIN on III and IMP on 0 
 

That's _really_ something. I would assume anyone using IEMs would have the Arrow on the lowest Gain setting. Even with HD650s gain III can provide volume beyond safe levels for prolonged listening. Sometimes I'll use Gain II with the 650s and have the volume dialed up a bit depending on how "hot" the recording is. I've found the different settings can often optimize the sound for the particular recording. If the people who spend $350->$450 on portables heard this amp, they would have a very had time defending the cost in terms of SQ. I know blind testing is anathema around here, but I'd love to see some of the results/preferences with the Arrow in the mix!


----------



## Mediaogre

@ Hellenback

 I _do_ like it loud. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I also find that the settings combination of IMP 0, GAIN III, and DAP on 11/20 provides the most detail and flexibility when using the Arrow to modulate volume.

 "Anathema" lol! Reap what we sow and tell no lies. This being my first plunge into portable audio supercharging, I'd love see some taste test results too.


----------



## Mediaogre

I've thought about this a lot. I couldn't locate the flaw until Robert explained to me that when he received the first batch of cases, he had to grind out one of the screw holes a bit. I imagine the machinist screwed (sorry) up the measurement and Robert had to help the screw to counter sink properly. Anyway, even after learning about the details of the flaw, it still took being in the right light and examining the Arrow at the right angle to _see it._

 Robert suffers from meticulous attention to detail - which is good for all of us in many ways. I think it's fun to have a "rare collector's item", and I'm content to wait patiently for Robert's aluminum extruder to get things right.

 Attached is a photo of the "flaw" in all its minusculian glory. Notice the tiny glint of bare metal straining valiantly to catch the light? _That's_ The Flaw. I s*** you not.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ Hellenback

 I do like it loud. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But I also find that the settings combination of IMP 0, GAIN III, and DAP on 11/20 provides the most detail and flexibility when using the Arrow to modulate volume.

 "Anathema" lol! Reap what we sow and tell no lies. This being my first plunge into portable audio supercharging, I'd love see some taste test results too._

 

I also like it louder than most and those are pretty much _my_ standard settings with the 650s! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you get a chance to hear some other portable amps you'll be even happier to own the Arrow. I've owned a Pico, Xenos X1HA-EPC and others (and spent plenty of time with more) and don't miss any of them.


----------



## Failed Engineer

Can anyone comment on RFI with an iphone? Trying to decide between the Arrow and the Pico Slim, and decided to go with the more versatile Arrow if RFI isn't a concern. Thanks!


----------



## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Failed Engineer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone comment on RFI with an iphone? Trying to decide between the Arrow and the Pico Slim, and decided to go with the more versatile Arrow if RFI isn't a concern. Thanks!_

 

Yes, the Arrow is succeptable to phone interference from both my iPhone and blackberry (as I posted earlier in this thread). The Shadow is also succeptable, as is every amp I have tried, so what are the chances the Pico Slim will be better?


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Failed Engineer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone comment on RFI with an iphone? Trying to decide between the Arrow and the Pico Slim, and decided to go with the more versatile Arrow if RFI isn't a concern. Thanks!_

 

I've said this before, but it's buried back deep in the thread. I sit everyday at work with my BlackBerry a foot or less away from my Arrow and I've yet to hear any chirping, blipping, 4-bit horse galloping or e-farting. It syncs all day with MS Exchange and Gmail too.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Failed Engineer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone comment on RFI with an iphone? Trying to decide between the Arrow and the Pico Slim, and decided to go with the more versatile Arrow if RFI isn't a concern. Thanks!_

 

Ugh. My bad. You'll be interconnecting your iPhone and an amp. I don't have experience with that config like Average Joe does, and I've yet to amp my BB.


----------



## Eggroll

I can't wait to get my Arrow 12HE and hear how they make my MTPC's & soon to have JH16's sound!! It seems to be one of the best amps for a portable rig.


----------



## GouldPhoto

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also like it louder than most and those are pretty much my standard settings with the 650s! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you get a chance to hear some other portable amps you'll be even happier to own the Arrow. I've owned a Pico, Xenos X1HA-EPC and others (and spent plenty of time with more) and don't miss any of them._

 

First a hello and thank you to all for the endless information in my search for a semi-portable rig. I have been lurking and reading for quite some time now and been going back and forth on amps and headphones. I currently have plenty of 2 channel gear but no headphones. The decision has been made.

 Now onto my wallet... I just put in an order for the Arrow 12HE. After reading everyones impressions and it's apparent versatility and great price, this seems like the amp for me.

 Next I will be purchasing the HD650's, to add to my wallet trauma. This combination will be fed from my iphone via some lod (that has not yet been purchased) with all lossless music.

 Now on to the only question I could not find an answer for.

 Hellenback, since you are apparently running this combination, how long can the Arrow drive the 650's on a full charge? 

 p.s. Once I have everything I will add my impressions to this growing thread.

 Thanks much
 Steve
www.gouldphoto.com


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GouldPhoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First a hello and thank you to all for the endless information in my search for a semi-portable rig. I have been lurking and reading for quite some time now and been going back and forth on amps and headphones. I currently have plenty of 2 channel gear but no headphones. The decision has been made.

 Now onto my wallet... I just put in an order for the Arrow 12HE. After reading everyones impressions and it's apparent versatility and great price, this seems like the amp for me.

 Next I will be purchasing the HD650's, to add to my wallet trauma. This combination will be fed from my iphone via some lod (that has not yet been purchased) with all lossless music.

 Now on to the only question I could not find an answer for.

 Hellenback, since you are apparently running this combination, how long can the Arrow drive the 650's on a full charge? 

 p.s. Once I have everything I will add my impressions to this growing thread.

 Thanks much
 Steve
www.gouldphoto.com_

 

Hi Steve,

 To be honest I rarely let the battery get to the point of needing a re-charge as I'm nearly always near a computer. It only happened a couple of times after quite a bit of listening as I use the auto off switch. 

 Depending on the computer, I have charged while listening with this amp without _noticeable_ noise but I wasn't listening for it. That said, I'll try to remember to give it a charge, and do my best to count the hours and get back to you. 

 If you're planning on _primarily_ portable use you might want to consider other phones than the 650s. I have Koss PortaPros for when it's simply not practical to use them. 

 I _do_ plan on a (much) more expensive desktop in the future to get the most out of these headphones, (likely balanced if/when savings allow) but the Arrow certainly has been the best, affordable interim answer as it allows me to really enjoy using my favorite cans where/whenever possible without feeling cheated in the least.


----------



## Young Spade

Very nice review man. This has almost sold me on the Arrow


----------



## Hellenback

I finished the test on the charge time and came out with 24hours of continual (non-stop) playing with settings on highest gain, highest bass boost (mine is 9db so it might be a _little_ less time with the new 12db second step boost). This is with HD650s at normal+ listening level. As no one I know listens for 24hours without stopping, it seems the amp will out-last most (if not all) DAPs because of the auto-off switch. I kept checking to make sure the sound wasn't degraded....and it wasn't, right up until the battery was fully discharged. I knew it had a long play time, but I was surprised at just how long it actually lasted before needing a charge.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Young Spade* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice review man. This has almost sold me on the Arrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I appreciate that. Thanks. If you do buy, you'll be very happy. The little Arrow has such clean power and it's versatile. Except for maybe the cheapest, low Ohms IEMs, I think the amp can be adjusted to make any headphone/DAP combo sound amazing.

 I'm so relieved I bought the Arrow. I was _this_ close to dropping $400 on a competitor's product.


----------



## Eggroll

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Arrow's sound does not degrade as the battery level drops. The switch "blinks" when charging is required. Green = off and charging; Orange = on and charging; Red = on (not charging)_

 

Hmmm...mine doesn't do that. The only light I get is a red one when its on


----------



## feverfive

I'm just jealous of you guys that have it already. I ordered March 21, so I hope it ships soon (order page said shipping 2-3 weeks then, so I hope it was accurate).


----------



## GouldPhoto

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finished the test on the charge time and came out with 24hours of continual (non-stop) playing with settings on highest gain, highest bass boost (mine is 9db so it might be a little less time with the new 12db second step boost). This is with HD650s at normal+ listening level. As no one I know listens for 24hours without stopping, it seems the amp will out-last most (if not all) DAPs because of the auto-off switch. I kept checking to make sure the sound wasn't degraded....and it wasn't, right up until the battery was fully discharged. I knew it had a long play time, but I was surprised at just how long it actually lasted before needing a charge._

 

Thanks for running the test. That is an amazing run time. Now I just need the amp, headphones, and LOD to arrive.

 Steve
www.gouldphoto.com


----------



## rehabitat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm so relieved I bought the Arrow. I was this close to dropping $400 on a competitor's product._

 

Me too. I'm enjoying its versatility as well. I haven't had any time for a more thoughtful listening session, but I can report that it drives my K601s just fine for a portable. However at this stage of mostly casual listening, I can't tell much difference between my 6g Ipod and the Arrow+Ipod driving my RE0s.

 I will report back when life returns to normal


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eggroll* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm...mine doesn't do that. The only light I get is a red one when its on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The lighted switch is supposed to be green when the switch is set to off and the amp is connected to and charging from the computer (or USB power adapter), orange when set to "on" and charging (it's just the red and green light on at the same time) and (always) red when disconnected from the USB charging port or fully charged and connected. I have a first gen. amp and didn't notice any changes mentioned on the site, where it still says:

 • Illuminated Bi-Color Power Switch


----------



## LeeMark

Just got it from another user on Head-Fi, didn't know what to think at first, thought it was a little harsh, then twiddled with the dials and with imp on 0 or 1 and gain on 2, things started to tighten, and with Bass on 1 things really sounded very good. I need to to listen more, my TTVJ is out being fixed and I sold my shadow (TTVJ was better). I have compared it to the Predator, and though good, the Arrow was brighter and sharper in all frequencies in a good way. I seldom have extended periods to listen to compare well but I will try in the next few days to give a more lengthier opinion. 

 One question i have and it may be worth even starting another thread is what settings people use with the Arrow, this is a uniques aspect of this amp and I find that they really do alter the sound. I don't have the time to constantly change the settings for each type of music, so the best all around setting would be good. 

 This amp is incredible bang for the buck and it rivals my TTVJ and what I heard of the Pico slim. I would love to hear other opinions about this.


----------



## cn11

LeeMark-

 Great that you're enjoying the Arrow already. As for settings, I just keep the bass at +1, crossfeed at 0, impedance at 0, and gain at 2. Definitely great bang for the buck, and awesome features offered for the cash.


----------



## Gridlinked

I have mine set to bass at 0, crossfeed at +1 (I switch back and forth between 0 and +1), impedance at 0, and gain at 0.


----------



## average_joe

@ LeeMark: very interested to know more info on how the Arrow compares with the TTVJ, as that might be my next amp purchase. I do think the Arrow outperforms the Shadow!


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeMark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One question i have and it may be worth even starting another thread is what settings people use with the Arrow, this is a uniques aspect of this amp and I find that they really do alter the sound. I don't have the time to constantly change the settings for each type of music, so the best all around setting would be good._

 

I've been switching between two settings for different headphones.

 IEMs, SE530: BASS II, CROSS I, GAIN III, IMP I (I understand the crossfeed filter works well for older stereo recordings, but I've found that it works well with modern recordings that have harsh channel pans. On my IEMs pans are jarring and the crossfeed filter helps a lot.)

 Cans, Senn HD500A: BASS I, CROSS O, GAIN III, IMP 0

 Right now, those are my favorite sweet spots, but I do tend to experiment.

 Results will vary. I don't think there's One Setting To Rule Them All, but I do think there's a good setting for every phone/DAC combo.


----------



## LeeMark

So any one with JH13s have good settings? 

 Also, as soon as I get the TTVJ back I will write about the comparison. From what I remember, the arrow competes well with it, but I think the sound signature is different, maybe it is the "tubiness" of the TTVJ, as I seem to remember it being a little more "mellow".


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rehabitat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will report back when life returns to normal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There's a normal mode?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad you're enjoying it. I'd love to hear your thoughts after things mellow out. (Thanks again for Dillinger Escape Plan. What a ride!)


----------



## rehabitat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's a normal mode?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad you're enjoying it. I'd love to hear your thoughts after things mellow out. (Thanks again for Dillinger Escape Plan. What a ride!)_

 

LOL! Isn't it just the most violent rollercoaster you've ever tried? You MUST see them live before you die. Period.

 As of tomorrow my life should begin to calm down. Wish me luck


----------



## holylucifer

When my he 12 arrives i'll give first impressions on how well it drives my beyerdynamic dt 48 e 200 ohm headphones.

 Best bang for buck portable amp that i know and would be hard to beat.


----------



## average_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeMark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So any one with JH13s have good settings? 

 Also, as soon as I get the TTVJ back I will write about the comparison. From what I remember, the arrow competes well with it, but I think the sound signature is different, maybe it is the "tubiness" of the TTVJ, as I seem to remember it being a little more "mellow"._

 

Great, thanks, looking forward to it!


----------



## Hellenback

All this time owning one and I didn't realize there was a "12" in it's name!


----------



## average_joe

I just wanted to say that I think the Arrow 12 HE is amazing for the price and drives all my IEMs to sound fantastic. Better than the other amps I have tried and much better than the DAP HPO! It scales well with DACs and paired with my film cap modded 5.5g, it is better than I thought possible from a portable setup!


----------



## Eggroll

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The lighted switch is supposed to be green when the switch is set to off and the amp is connected to and charging from the computer (or USB power adapter), orange when set to "on" and charging (it's just the red and green light on at the same time) and (always) red when disconnected from the USB charging port or fully charged and connected. I have a first gen. amp and didn't notice any changes mentioned on the site, where it still says:

 • Illuminated Bi-Color Power Switch_

 

It works now. The light wasn't turning green because the battery was fully charged. I'm charging it now after using it all day and the light's green.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wanted to say that I think the Arrow 12 HE is amazing for the price and drives all my IEMs to sound fantastic. Better than the other amps I have tried and much better than the DAP HPO! It scales well with DACs and paired with my film cap modded 5.5g, it is better than I thought possible from a portable setup!_

 

Nice to hear someone else appreciates it as I do...it's a tough portable to beat regardless of price.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eggroll* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It works now. The light wasn't turning green because the battery was fully charged. I'm charging it now after using it all day and the light's green._

 

I _thought_ that might be what was happening


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rehabitat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL! Isn't it just the most violent rollercoaster you've ever tried? You MUST see them live before you die. Period.

 As of tomorrow my life should begin to calm down. Wish me luck _

 

May luck be with you, sir.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LeeMark-

 Great that you're enjoying the Arrow already. As for settings, I just keep the bass at +1, crossfeed at 0, impedance at 0, and gain at 2. Definitely great bang for the buck, and awesome features offered for the cash._

 

I also find these to be a good "generic" settings. Unless the music is recorded at very low levels, (as with some older CDs) I prefer to listen at the lowest gain possible. I think higher gain can induce more noise with _all_ amps (even if it isn't immediately discernible). If I'm in the mood for more bass (or the recording is thin) I'll kick the boost up to the next setting.


----------



## GouldPhoto

As the saying goes...

 Unless the 2 out of 3 is the LOD and Headphones but no amp
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I now have a very nice LOD from Whiplash Audio and shiny new pair of HD650's and nothing but a crappy old cd player with a headphone out to start burning them in on. 

 Patiently waiting for my Arrow to go from "Order Processing" to "Shipped" so I can end up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Steve


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GouldPhoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As the saying goes...

 Unless the 2 out of 3 is the LOD and Headphones but no amp
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I now have a very nice LOD from Whiplash Audio and shiny new pair of HD650's and nothing but a crappy old cd player with a headphone out to start burning them in on. 

 Patiently waiting for my Arrow to go from "Order Processing" to "Shipped" so I can end up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Steve_

 

I guess it's the old half empty/half full thing....at least you have something to look forward too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you have a receiver or speaker amp with HP out you can use in the meantime? Those 650s are tough to drive from a (portable?) CD player.
 They don't sound _too_ bad from my Yamaha CDC675, but it's a _half_-decent old CD player.
 Burning those HPs in is more important than I used to believe. They sound much better now that they've got some time on them. I think some people get the 650s new and decide they don't like them before they ever loosen up diaphragm/drivers and hear them amped even to 80-> 85% of their potential.


----------



## GouldPhoto

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess it's the old half empty/half full thing....at least you have something to look forward too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you have a receiver or speaker amp with HP out you can use in the meantime? Those 650s are tough to drive from a (portable?) CD player.
 They don't sound too bad from my Yamaha CDC675, but it's a half-decent old CD player.
 Burning those HPs in is more important than I used to believe. They sound much better now that they've got some time on them. I think some people get the 650s new and decide they don't like them before they ever loosen up diaphragm/drivers and hear them amped even to 80-> 85% of their potential._

 

Its a full sized CD player with headphone out. They have been hooked up since they came in with a couple cd's on continuous loop. So they officially have about 3 hours on them. I was listening straight out of the box for a point of reference. Will listen again in the morning. 
 (I guess this should be in the headphone section, getting OT)


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also find these to be a good "generic" settings. Unless the music is recorded at very low levels, (as with some older CDs) I prefer to listen at the lowest gain possible. I think higher gain can induce more noise with all amps (even if it isn't immediately discernible). If I'm in the mood for more bass (or the recording is thin) I'll kick the boost up to the next setting._

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. It works on most of my music. Thankfully I don't have any really demanding phones which take +3 for gain. Even my Ultrasones are okay with +2 on quiet recordings such as the Pink Floyd remaster of Comfortably Numb.


----------



## Eggroll

Ok this maybe a very stupid noob question but is the IMP switch supposed to be similar to a Impedance/Resistance Adapters?


----------



## knubbe

Yes they're mainly for getting rid of hiss I believe


----------



## dfkt

With some phones added impedance might also remove a bit treble. In my experience that's noticeable especially with some multi-armature IEMs containing crossovers (could be a coincidence though).


----------



## feverfive

Anyone here using their Arrow w/ a 2009 iPod Classic? Do you find running the Classic @ max volume out to the Arrow causing distortion? (yeah, I know, probably mostly IEM-dependent) Is there a "sweet spot" for what volume to set the Classic?


----------



## Eggroll

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone here using their Arrow w/ a 2009 iPod Classic? Do you find running the Classic @ max volume out to the Arrow causing distortion? (yeah, I know, probably mostly IEM-dependent) Is there a "sweet spot" for what volume to set the Classic?_

 

I have a 6th Gen iPod Classic w/ the Arrow 12HE connected via mini to mini. I have my iPod volume set at 80-85% and seems to be pretty good.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With some phones added impedance might also remove a bit treble. In my experience that's noticeable especially with some multi-armature IEMs containing crossovers (could be a coincidence though)._

 

It's even noticeable with HD650s. I always leave it on the lowest setting unless it is a vinyl rip with a lot of top end hiss (or it's an extremely harsh recording).


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's even noticeable with HD650s. I always leave it on the lowest setting unless it is a vinyl rip with a lot of top end hiss (or it's an extremely harsh recording)._

 

Agreeing with Hellenback (and dkft too). My multi-driver Shure SE530s produce a smidge o' hiss with IMP O so I've been using I and it's a beautiful thing. It *may* cut a little of the highs, but I'm not sure. My 150 Ohms Senns are super quiet so I drive them hard and leave the IMP on O. Otherwise, the highs are too recessed and quality recordings' snare drums aren't as snappy with the IMP on I or II.

 Again I'm feeling so glad I settled on an amp with options. It's a treat, and monkeying with the settings for different recordings (or mood) doesn't get old.


----------



## grokit

I can definitely vouch for the battery life on the HE. I stopped topping off the charge on it and have already recharged my thin iMod's battery (which I just replaced with a new Apricorn 580mAH model) six times so far, with no slowdown of the Arrow yet!


----------



## JiPod

Has anyone tried the Arrow with low impedance IEMs (I.e. 16 ohms)? How do the two like each other?

 BTW, does anyone know how many Arrow 12HE units were initially sold prior to the May 2010 shipment delay?


----------



## h0pkins

Has anbyody who ordered his Arrow late febuary/early march recieved his one yet?

 A co-worker lend me his Arrow for a minute and while i'm fairly new to the wider hi-fi world i already could hear a big difference in sound.
 My iPod never sounded so good.


----------



## Bennyboy71

My arrow arrived five minutes ago! Woohoo!

 Ordered it on 22nd March and it shipped on 10th April so just over a month from start to finish.

 Haven't got chance to test it till later but its on charge getting ready for some serious spanking.

 It is a very very sexy looking thing indeed.


----------



## Eggroll

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bennyboy71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My arrow arrived five minutes ago! Woohoo!

 Ordered it on 22nd March and it shipped on 10th April so just over a month from start to finish.

 Haven't got chance to test it till later but its on charge getting ready for some serious spanking.

 It is a very very sexy looking thing indeed._

 

Indeed it is!! Enjoy!!


----------



## Bennyboy71

My arrow arrived today, woo hoo. 

 Ordered it on 22nd March. 

 It looks very very sexy.


----------



## PANGES

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bennyboy71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My arrow arrived today, woo hoo. 

 Ordered it on 22nd March. 

 It looks very very sexy._

 

Oh??? Looks like our shipment made it out of Europe in time after all!


----------



## Bennyboy71

Posting from a BlackBerry is not advised, folks, unless you like weird duplicate posting.

 Did I tell you about my Arrow arriving today, by the way?


----------



## h0pkins

Hmm, i live next to germany (austria to be precise) and my Arrow was shipped on april 10th. Guess some guy at the tax-office is brooding about how much extra the state can charge me for it.

 I hope you have fun with yours Bennyboy!!


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JiPod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the Arrow with low impedance IEMs (I.e. 16 ohms)? How do the two like each other?_

 

The Arrow works perfectly fine with even the most obnoxious over-efficient IEMs out there, like the SE530 or UE11. It's the second amp I've heard that accomplishes this - all other amps I've heard so far are as bad as your average MP3 player with those kinds of phones.


----------



## junien

XD any comparisons with the pico slim yet? im loath to wait for both of them. i understand quality requires dedication and time but from the time i order to the point of shipping i might have changed my address. (moving out of uni halls)


----------



## zappp

dfkt, 

 does the Arrow improve SQ with SE530 or UE11? I thought one reason to go for these very efficient, low impedance, but expensive phones is to do without headamp?

 h0pkins,

 mine shipped last month within Germany overnight. There should not be any customs clearance or VAT addition within EU.


----------



## dfkt

The problem with these kinds of phones is that they're too efficient, too sensitive, too powerful, too low impedance (or too wildly varying impedance over the frequency range) for most MP3 players' amps. And it seems the crossovers in those multi-armature designs make matters even more complicated.

 There's a usually rather broad sweet spot where phones work well with MP3 players, but same as on the opposite end of the spectrum where you have 300 Ohm Sennheisers, or 600 Ohm Beyers, those (in reality, depending on frequency) 8(!)-20 Ohm IEMs with a sensitivity of sometimes over 120dB/mW don't work well with most MP3 players.

 For example, the SE530 are especially bad when it comes to hiss: they hiss like mad with about anything - also with many fancy, high-priced headphone amps. I only know two, the Arrow and the Headsix, that don't hiss with the SE530. Another problem is that such IEM's low varying impedance affects stereo crosstalk (soundstage) and bass response (roll-off) in a negative way.

 Basically, those "high end" IEMs need more issues "fixed" than some beefy full-sized phones in a portable rig. My HD650 only need to get louder and more dynamic to make them enjoyable, they don't have the issues that plagues my IEMs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So yeah, to answer your question, the Arrow definitely improves listening satisfaction with those kinds of IEMs a lot.


----------



## zappp

In that case I am happy that I took the RE0 (single dynamic driver)! Sounds thin on iPod, but quite acceptable on MacBook.

 Arrow + RE0 was more expensive than RE252 (single dynamic driver, but more efficient and lower impedance). However, now I can use almost any headphone.


----------



## dfkt

Well, with the Arrow you can use *any* headphone, not just almost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Off topic: I have both those IEMs. The RE252's housing is terrible, even if they're a bit more precise than the RE0 - at least the RE0 have a 'normal' housing and can be worn over-the-ear. The RE0 are definitely worth $79, while the RE252 are absolutely not worth their asking price.


----------



## holylucifer

Got my arrow today as well.


----------



## cn11

Looking forward to listening impressions from you new owners! 

 Cheers.


----------



## holylucifer

It drives my dt 48 fine...compared to my asus essence stx and asus d1 sound card..regarding the bass yea.

 This headphone has little bass...but the eq on the sound card gives it more impact as well as it's op amps..but still i was expecting more.

 Power wise it's fine really makes these dt 48's sound loud more louder than my stx.

 I'm a newcomer to amps so forgive me on that but i was expecting more but then the stx offers alot for the price anyways.

 I'm going to have to eq these headphones since they have no eq.

 The sound is more cleaner compared to my sound cards their is a improvement.

 Well i am enjoying this i am satisfied with my purchase.


----------



## JiPod

Thanks for your reply.

 Could you please clarify what you mean by "It's the second amp I've heard that accomplishes this"? Are there two amps inside the Arrow?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Arrow works perfectly fine with even the most obnoxious over-efficient IEMs out there, like the SE530 or UE11. It's the second amp I've heard that accomplishes this - all other amps I've heard so far are as bad as your average MP3 player with those kinds of phones._


----------



## fidele-caput

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JiPod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you please clarify what you mean by "It's the second amp I've heard that accomplishes this"? Are there two amps inside the Arrow?_

 

No, he was referring to another amp. headsix iirc.


----------



## JiPod

IC. Thanks for the clarification.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fidele-caput* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, he was referring to another amp. headsix iirc._


----------



## Bennyboy71

Only had chance to give it a brief run last night, but I have to say it's one hell of an amp - makes my E-Q7s sound even better.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zappp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dfkt, 

 does the Arrow improve SQ with SE530 or UE11? I thought one reason to go for these very efficient, low impedance, but expensive phones is to do without headamp?

 h0pkins,

 mine shipped last month within Germany overnight. There should not be any customs clearance or VAT addition within EU._

 

Hey zappp,

 I agree with dfkt and I can personally claim the Arrow HE drives SE530s wonderfully. I use the Shure+Arrow combo every day at work. On IMP 0, GAIN III (I like things that go to "eleven") the SE530s produce a slight bit of low register hiss. It's tolerable (especially in a louder-than-desirable ambient noise environment) and I like the signature that's produced from those settings. Any combination of GAIN+IMP other than the above-mentioned setting produces no hiss.


----------



## Mediaogre

I had just finished lifting weights in my garage gym where I have an old stereo/amp and some old Bose speakers. I plug my Zune+Arrow combo into the stereo and rock out while a I work out. It's routine. It's comfort. It's escape. It's *mostly* safe for precious electronics and the components of the routine are unchanging. Except _this_ time I had my new laptop with me.

 I place the laptop on a wooden structure which is mounted on one side to a garage wall. With the laptop, I document every rep, weight, time, etc. My new laptop, when closed, has a slight grade to its silky soft-touch display lid's finish (thanks to an extended 9 cell battery). My old one doesn't. I had placed my Zune+Arrow on the display lid when horror ensued...

 Placed Zune+Arrow on laptop lid >>> Punch the garage door button (to pull may car in) >>> Garage door motor generates low vibration in wall which vibrates the wooden structure with the laptop and its occupant >>> Zune+Arrow begin a super slow-mo slide toward solid concrete >>> I reach my car and hear a loud *SLAP* >>> I turn around and realize my Zune+Arrow took a four foot dive to the garage floor >>> _*Sonic F-Bomb*_ >>> Wife almost immediately opens the interior garage door to interrogate the source of toxicity and almost steps on my Zune+Arrow before I have time to close the distance >>> To her bewilderment, all I can muster is to stupidly yell "NOOOOOOO!! D-D-DOAN - NOOOOOO!!" at her.

 Everything (including me and my marriage) miraculously survived. I believe the Arrow hit first at about a 45 degree angle right on its edge with the settings. Only the _slightest_ scuffs in the finish near the USB and CHG ends exist as proof that anything at all happened. Luckily, I had put the Zune in standby so the hard drive wasn't spinning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This editorial officially serves as weight added, drop-test proof of the Arrow HE's stoutness of design.

 -Ogre and out


----------



## feverfive

I was extremely surprised to check my mailbox today & see a yellow padded envelope from Germany inside... I charged it until the green light went off (only took a couple hours), and started listening... I am somewhat stunned at how much difference there is between my Classic's HPO & line-out. Things sounded a bit congested at first, but opened-up after only an hour or so. Early indications are that I will be very happy w/ this purchase.


----------



## wuwhere

Ogre, good thing all survived
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good thing too that a new Arrow case is forthcoming.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Arrow works perfectly fine with even the most obnoxious over-efficient IEMs out there, like the SE530 or UE11. It's the second amp I've heard that accomplishes this - all other amps I've heard so far are as bad as your average MP3 player with those kinds of phones._

 

dfkt, have you heard the Pico Slim?


----------



## dfkt

Not yet, but I might get one. For me it's the only interesting amp besides the Arrow at the moment.


----------



## merlinzeta

Hey guys,

 Anyone using the Arrow with a UM3X and/or Cowon D2? This is the combo I am using at the moment.

 Would there be a noticeable improvement in SQ even with the HPO of the D2? I'm specifically looking for some more sub-bass impact at the moment.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *merlinzeta* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys,

 Anyone using the Arrow with a UM3X and/or Cowon D2? This is the combo I am using at the moment.

 Would there be a noticeable improvement in SQ even with the HPO of the D2? I'm specifically looking for some more sub-bass impact at the moment._

 

I have not received my Arrow yet. I should get it some time this week. I will try this, I have a D2 as well and I will post the result here.


----------



## merlinzeta

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not received my Arrow yet. I should get it some time this week. I will try this, I have a D2 as well and I will post the result here._

 

Did you have a UM3X also?

 In any case, looking forward to your impressions with the D2!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *merlinzeta* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you have a UM3X also?

 In any case, looking forward to your impressions with the D2!_

 

I have an ER4P which doesn't have much bass to begin with.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *merlinzeta* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you have a UM3X also?

 In any case, looking forward to your impressions with the D2!_

 

Merlinzeta,

 I mainly use my SE530s and my Arrow is IC'd to My Zune HPO. I know this is a different setup, but our components and connectivity options (which aren't optimal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) are similar: amp+DAP/HPO, high-end triple armature driver IEMs.

 The Arrow fills out the sonic range of my SE530s. Phones like these really should be sold with an "SQ results may vary" disclaimer. Powerful and midrangey before, the mids are now a force. I have all the bass I need and while I wouldn't consider myself a "bass head" I like to feel it when it's meant to be felt. I don't know where the crossover kicks in but it's low enough that I'm feeling headquakes now. I'm talking about subsonics though. There's plenty of punch, and the bass is still tight and has more definition.

 My only challenge has been the highs. A low impedance/high gain combo punches out the highs but with IEMs there's more *noticable* noise (as compared to my Senn cans and higher Ohms phones). I've fiddled around a lot and mostly settled on GAIN II, IMP 0 with the DAP volume around 11 or 12/20 and the amp around 1/2 volume-ish. At those settings, noise is reduced, highs sparkle and snare drums still snap with authority.

 I hope this helps. Have you ordered one? You'll be glad you did. Even through a HPO, I'm loving the SQ improvement and can happily wait until my wife forgets about the amp expense before looking into a different DAP.


----------



## merlinzeta

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Merlinzeta,

 I mainly use my SE530s and my Arrow is IC'd to My Zune HPO. I know this is a different setup, but our components and connectivity options (which aren't optimal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) are similar: amp+DAP/HPO, high-end triple armature driver IEMs.

 The Arrow fills out the sonic range of my SE530s. Phones like these really should be sold with an "SQ results may vary" disclaimer. Powerful and midrangey before, the mids are now a force. I have all the bass I need and while I wouldn't consider myself a "bass head" I like to feel it when it's meant to be felt. I don't know where the crossover kicks in but it's low enough that I'm feeling headquakes now. I'm talking about subsonics though. There's plenty of punch, and the bass is still tight and has more definition.

 My only challenge has been the highs. A low impedance/high gain combo punches out the highs but with IEMs there's more *noticable* noise (as compared to my Senn cans and higher Ohms phones). I've fiddled around a lot and mostly settled on GAIN II, IMP 0 with the DAP volume around 11 or 12/20 and the amp around 1/2 volume-ish. At those settings, noise is reduced, highs sparkle and snare drums still snap with authority.

 I hope this helps. Have you ordered one? You'll be glad you did. Even through a HPO, I'm loving the SQ improvement and can happily wait until my wife forgets about the amp expense before looking into a different DAP. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the comprehensive answer! It sure is encouraging to say the least.

 I haven't ordered yet, but only because the site says new orders won't be sent until May anyways. I'll at least wait for wuwhere to get his and post impressions with the D2.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *merlinzeta* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the comprehensive answer! It sure is encouraging to say the least.

 I haven't ordered yet, but only because the site says new orders won't be sent until May anyways. I'll at least wait for wuwhere to get his and post impressions with the D2._

 

Ah, good call. Does the D2 have an EQ? You'd have SO MUCH (too much?) flexibility with a D2+Arrow combo! I'm _certain_ it's going to wake up your UM3Xs. The Zune 80 doesn't have an EQ and, actually, I'm one of the freaks who likes the Zune's naked sound signature. With all the Arrow's flexible settings, I find I don't miss a DAP EQ one bit.

 Speed to wuwhere's order!!


----------



## dfkt

Like all Cowon players, the D2 has a really good EQ (next only to Rockbox's EQ), and also BBE sound enhancements (probably the best stuff in the market). The Arrow works great with all my Cowon players, or any other player for that matter. I haven't really found anything that doesn't "synergize" with the Arrow, so far.


----------



## Eagle Eye

The Arrow has worked great for me as well. As far as I am concerned for the price it cannot be beat. Plenty of power and ultra quiet. Great bang for the buck.


----------



## Mediaogre

@ dkft, I hate you guys with your Cowons. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And you said, "synergize." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 @ Eagle Eye, That's a bada** avatar, man.

 @ merlinzeta, what are your waiting for? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously, pull the trigger. If Robert continues to receive the praise and subsequent orders he deserves, ship dates will inevitably creep. I don't pretend to have visibility into his production process, but I imagine demand would need to increase dramatically for him to make the business decisions necessary to boost production.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eagle Eye* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Arrow has worked great for me as well. As far as I am concerned for the price it cannot be beat. Plenty of power and ultra quiet. Great bang for the buck._

 

Big X2

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like all Cowon players, the D2 has a really good EQ (next only to Rockbox's EQ), and also BBE sound enhancements (probably the best stuff in the market). The Arrow works great with all my Cowon players, or any other player for that matter. I haven't really found anything that doesn't "synergize" with the Arrow, so far._

 

Another big X2 on the any player comment. I haven't heard a lot of them but the Arrow is a true "amplifier" in that it does what it is supposed to do without coloration or noise. No turn on thump, no hiss and very smooth, accurate volume control. I've been using mine for months now and am extremely happy with it.


----------



## dfkt

Here's my review, enjoy: Headstage Arrow 12HE Headphone Amplifier Review


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my review, enjoy: Headstage Arrow 12HE Headphone Amplifier Review_

 

Nice review, now I'm really excited to listen to my Arrow if it ever shows up.


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my review, enjoy: Headstage Arrow 12HE Headphone Amplifier Review_

 

What an awesome review. Great job.


----------



## LeeMark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my review, enjoy: Headstage Arrow 12HE Headphone Amplifier Review_

 

Nice review. Thanks


----------



## no_mas_123

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my review, enjoy: Headstage Arrow 12HE Headphone Amplifier Review_

 

great review, many thanks. I just ordered the Arrow, my first amp. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks to all who had input about this amp, I've read every thread/post. I guess my other choice, the TTVJ slim, will have to wait awhile.


----------



## dfkt

Thanks, guys, for your kind replies. I just noticed that our blog system messed the review up (duplicate paragraphs, etc) - I'm trying to fix it.


----------



## Eggroll

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my review, enjoy: Headstage Arrow 12HE Headphone Amplifier Review_

 

Great Review!!


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my review, enjoy: Headstage Arrow 12HE Headphone Amplifier Review_

 

Wonderful, dkft. I actually learned some things I didn't know about my Arrow. Definitely browser bookmark worthy.


----------



## dfkt

Thanks right back at you, Mediaogre. Your insightful posts here and in the ABI thread helped me quite a bit in writing up the review. By the way, I left the "flaw" in the housing out on purpose, since it's such a non-issue, and probably fixed in the amps that are shipping out at the moment.


----------



## cn11

Listening to my Sony X (w/LOD)/ Arrow / FX700 combo right now, loving life!!


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks right back at you, Mediaogre. Your insightful posts here and in the ABI thread helped me quite a bit in writing up the review. By the way, I left the "flaw" in the housing out on purpose, since it's such a non-issue, and probably fixed in the amps that are shipping out at the moment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow thanks, dkft. I'm glad I could give back to this extremely generous and welcoming community. Good call on the "flaw". If anything, it's just another testament to the OCD environment in which the Arrow was so lovingly crafted - to all of our benefit.


----------



## techenvy

i am very curious about the arrow, how does it compare to the predator?

 cheers


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks right back at you, Mediaogre. Your insightful posts here and in the ABI thread helped me quite a bit in writing up the review. By the way, I left the "flaw" in the housing out on purpose, since it's such a non-issue, and probably fixed in the amps that are shipping out at the moment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

@dtfk: I read your review and have to say you really covered all the bases. You expressed my own experience with the Arrow better than I could have myself. 

 I agree with Mediaogre that if the "flaw" was brought up it would have to be in conjunction with the "bordering on OCD" comment


----------



## clarinetman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks right back at you, Mediaogre. Your insightful posts here and in the ABI thread helped me quite a bit in writing up the review. By the way, I left the "flaw" in the housing out on purpose, since it's such a non-issue, and probably fixed in the amps that are shipping out at the moment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 @dfkt: Thanks a lot for the review, it was quite informative 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You mentioned in your review that you tried the XM5. How does it compare with the Arrow? I'm trying to decide if I even want to keep my XM5 anymore...


----------



## Bennyboy71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my review, enjoy: Headstage Arrow 12HE Headphone Amplifier Review_

 

What a fantastic, informative, humorous and enjoyable review. Great stuff, and I agree with every word. Funnily enough, until you commented on it, I hadn't noticed there were two input ports! Realising that, I've reconnected my Arrow to my iPod the other way round, making it even more easy to use in transit. Brilliant.

 So glad I got the Arrow instead of the Minibox E+, which I was debating a couple of months ago when I had the Ety ER4S. Now I have the E-Q7s and the Arrow, I feel like I have a match made in heaven. The Orto leather case even holds the Arrow and Classic perfectly. Doesn't get much better than that.

 Stunning. That's my one word review of the Headstage Arrow. Buy it. That's my two word version.


----------



## dfkt

Clarinetman - sorry, I never heard the XM5, I just mentioned it because of the sleep timer function. 

 Bennyboy - thanks for your comment. I agree with both your reviews, the one- and the two-word one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cn11 - I just tried the Arrow with james444's FX700: aooogaaah/yowzer/etc!


----------



## JxK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clarinetman - sorry, I never heard the XM5, I just mentioned it because of the sleep timer function. 

 Bennyboy - thanks for your comment. I agree with both your reviews, the one- and the two-word one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cn11 -* I just tried the Arrow with james444's FX700: aooogaaah/yowzer*/etc!_

 

So does the fx700 break the paradigm with dynamics? Namely that unlike most dynamic IEMs, a portable amp actually improves sound quality? Or are you just referring to something like the arrow's crossfeed and lack of hiss?


----------



## Anaxilus

There was a dynamic driver paradigm w/ amps? Odd, dynamics usually require more power than BA's to drive which usually means they respond to amping better. You realize Home Theaters and Car audio use dynamic drivers and they usually get amped.


----------



## JxK

Dynamic IEMs tend not to require portable amps to reach their full potential. BA IEMs, especially multi-armature IEMs do. It's not about loudness, as either type can get loud with the internal amp of most any DAP. Just that the sound of a BA IEM improves, while that of a dynamic doesn't. Obviously however, just because it applies to IEMs doesn't mean it applies to speakers.


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clarinetman - sorry, I never heard the XM5, I just mentioned it because of the sleep timer function. 
_

 

Dammit dfkt, now I'm tempted to buy one to compare with my XM5....


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JxK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dynamic IEMs tend not to require portable amps to reach their full potential. BA IEMs, especially multi-armature IEMs do. It's not about loudness, as either type can get loud with the internal amp of most any DAP. Just that the sound of a BA IEM improves, while that of a dynamic doesn't. Obviously however, just because it applies to IEMs doesn't mean it applies to speakers._

 

I think the RE0, Monsters, etc would disagree w/ that. Dynamics require more power to drive than a BA, its simple physics of having to move more mass. You can play games w/ sensitivity and impedance to minimize that but 1 BA driver does not require the same amount of power to drive 1 Dynamic driver. Of course if you have 1 zillion BA's to drive you need some juice. Ergo I still maintain your 'paradigm' is more correctly associated w/ BA's than Dynamics simply from a scientific stand point; ceterus paribus (all things being equal).


----------



## PANGES

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my review, enjoy: Headstage Arrow 12HE Headphone Amplifier Review_

 

What settings are you using with the IE8's? I haven't tried my Arrow yet, but just curious where would be a good starting point for me.


----------



## dfkt

I'm generally using bass 2, cross 2, gain 1, imp 0, with my Cowon O2 and IE8 - for movies.


----------



## holylucifer

I'm using bass 1 cross 2 gain 2 imp 2 with my dt 48..if i put bass at 2 and gain at 2 the whole thing sounds over done and sounds over powered, crackle .


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PANGES* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What settings are you using with the IE8's? I haven't tried my Arrow yet, but just curious where would be a good starting point for me._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt,6606728* 
_I'm generally using bass 2, cross 2, gain 1, imp 0, with my Cowon O2 and IE8 - for movies._

 

PANGES, keep in mind that dfkt uses the crossfeed filter with his IEMs to smooth out the rough edges of 5.1 down-mixed to stereo. (Please correct me if I'm inaccurate, dfkt.) I rarely use the crossfeed with modern, well-mastered music recordings and my Shure SE530s. Just FYI.


----------



## dfkt

Exactly, I'm mostly using this for video - for (modern, well mastered) music I usually don't use crossfeed at all.


----------



## PANGES

Thanks for the input, dfkt and Mediaogre.

 I just got home from class and finally popped the Arrow on with my ipod Touch 3g (64gig if that matters), Sennheiser IE8, and LOD (made by Average_Joe). 

 My first impressions: I was worried about buying an amp, because I did not notice any difference with the NuForce Icon Mobile and FiiO E1 (which I bought only because I wanted the remote for the ipod). But the second I popped in the Arrow- WOW! I have it at Bass- I, Cross- 0, Gain- II, and Imp- 0. Now I'm not experienced enough with audio equipment, nor am I efficient at explaining what I'm hearing with technical terms since I'm still pretty new to all this... But I know what I like, and I'm 100% positive I LIKE!

 I don't know if this amp needs to be burned in, or what, and I don't care, I'm loving it. I liked the IE8's, because I loved the feeling of having the music wrap around me and just getting lost in it, and this amp just takes that feeling to a whole new level. 

 The bass is punchier on I... I tried it on II and it was too overwhelming for me (and I LOVVVEEEEE bass). 

 I wish I could better explain what I'm hearing to you guys other than "Me likey!" but it's all I have to offer at the moment.. Perhaps something more intelligent will come to me the more I listen. lol.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PANGES* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What settings are you using with the IE8's? I haven't tried my Arrow yet, but just curious where would be a good starting point for me._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PANGES* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the input, dfkt and Mediaogre.

 I just got home from class and finally popped the Arrow on with my ipod Touch 3g (64gig if that matters), Sennheiser IE8, and LOD (made by Average_Joe). 

 My first impressions: I was worried about buying an amp, because I did not notice any difference with the NuForce Icon Mobile and FiiO E1 (which I bought only because I wanted the remote for the ipod). But the second I popped in the Arrow- WOW! I have it at Bass- I, Cross- 0, Gain- II, and Imp- 0. Now I'm not experienced enough with audio equipment, nor am I efficient at explaining what I'm hearing with technical terms since I'm still pretty new to all this... But I know what I like, and I'm 100% positive I LIKE!

 I don't know if this amp needs to be burned in, or what, and I don't care, I'm loving it. I liked the IE8's, because I loved the feeling of having the music wrap around me and just getting lost in it, and this amp just takes that feeling to a whole new level. 

 The bass is punchier on I... I tried it on II and it was too overwhelming for me (and I LOVVVEEEEE bass). 

 I wish I could better explain what I'm hearing to you guys other than "Me likey!" but it's all I have to offer at the moment.. Perhaps something more intelligent will come to me the more I listen. lol._

 

You're welcome, PANGES. Your setting are just about where I like mine with my SE530s.

 Hey, enthusiasm, appreciation and the desire for something better is all it takes. Enjoy!

 BTW - I'm an old Bay Area boy.


----------



## PANGES

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mediaogre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're welcome, PANGES. Your setting are just about where I like mine with my SE530s.

 Hey, enthusiasm, appreciation and the desire for something better is all it takes. Enjoy!

 BTW - I'm an old Bay Area boy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

haha. That's funny you say that, because that's how all my additions to certain hobbies start. I already know head-fi is going to ruin my life just like my car addiction has, and I'm okay with it.


----------



## PANGES

By the way... to those of you using the Arrow with an iPhone or iPod touch: I've noticed that the amp makes this clicking/popping noise through my headphones whenever my WiFi is enabled on the iPod Touch. Has anyone else noticed this? It's only noticeable when I pause the song. Once the music is playing, I can't really hear it.


----------



## GouldPhoto

First brief listening.

 Like Hellenback I am using this amp to drive HD650's. So I have iPhone (lossless music) > whiplash audio LOD > Arrow > Blue Dragon Cable > HD650.

 This little sliver of an amp can really grab hold of the 650's and push them. Started with some familiar albums that I use for speaker auditions, Holy Cole (It Happened One Night), Patricia Barber (Companion), Bjork (Post), Pink Floyd (Pulse), Annie Lennox (Bare)

 Settings: Bass 0, Cross 1, Gain 1, Imp 0

 I found myself really listening to the music or should I say hearing the music. Instrument separation is very good, details come out, everything sounds for lack of a better word, "Right".

 Do the 650's sound better from a full size home amp? Probably, but I don't have one. For a portable listening experience this is a wonderful solution.

 My wife had a listen when she got home, she wanted to hear what I spent all that money on and now wants to take the rig to work with her. Her comments, "wow these are comfortable headphones", "wow this sounds great", "there is a lot of bass in this song". To which I had to respond, that's how the song sounds, there is a lot of bass.

 More listening to come, and possibly a bit more switch flipping.

 Probably will be looking for a different LOD. Side exit, right angle connector. The straight LOD is kind of a pain to connect.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GouldPhoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do the 650's sound better from a full size home amp? Probably, but I don't have one._

 

I use the HD 650 with a Woo 6 at home, and while that beefy tube amp of course gives them a different 'flavor' of sound, it doesn't drive the HD 650 'better' than the Arrow, considering aspects like dynamics, channel separation (soundstage), bass extension, and such.


----------



## GouldPhoto

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the HD 650 with a Woo 6 at home, and while that beefy tube amp of course gives them a different 'flavor' of sound, it doesn't drive the HD 650 'better' than the Arrow, considering aspects like dynamics, channel separation (soundstage), bass extension, and such._

 

That is good to know as I was considering a desktop amp as well, saved me some money. My gut was telling me that the arrow was indeed driving the 650's with authority and comparing it to my CD players output it was sounding better. But of course reading about all the full sized amps with their extra reserves of power lead me to believe a full sized would improve the SQ.

 I will try the arrow from my DAC and compare the sound as opposed to the iPhone. I think I am going to be very happy.

 Now to find my rca to mini cables.

 Thanks for the insight.

 p.s. Excellent review of the amp, I enjoyed reading it.


----------



## midoo1990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the HD 650 with a Woo 6 at home, and while that beefy tube amp of course gives them a different 'flavor' of sound, it doesn't drive the HD 650 'better' than the Arrow, considering aspects like dynamics, channel separation (soundstage), bass extension, and such._

 

wow really?when i had the $330 headroom micro amp it had more bass impact than my wa6 but the soundstage was considerably less and instrument seperation wasnt as good as the wa6.the wa6 gives a very big soundstage with sweet bass and more instrument seperation than micro amp.
 are you using sophia princess with your wa6?i was skeptical before i bought the tube but it does make a big difference than the crappy stock rectifier.


----------



## Qonad

Anyone using the arrow and TF10s atm? How does it sound? What kind of improvements?


----------



## dfkt

Midoo1990, well I don't know the Headroom Micro Amp, but the Arrow drives the HD650 as well as my Woo does, sans the tube flavor. I don't have a Sophia, currently I use a 1960ies Mullard GZ34 rectifier.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow really?when i had the $330 headroom micro amp it had more bass impact than my wa6 but the soundstage was considerably less and instrument seperation wasnt as good as the wa6.the wa6 gives a very big soundstage with sweet bass and more instrument seperation than micro amp.
 are you using sophia princess with your wa6?i was skeptical before i bought the tube but it does make a big difference than the crappy stock rectifier._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Midoo1990, well I don't know the Headroom Micro Amp, but the Arrow drives the HD650 as well as my Woo does, sans the tube flavor. I don't have a Sophia, currently I use a 1960ies Mullard GZ34 rectifier._

 

With an Amperex GZ34 bugle boy rectifier my WA6 soundstage was no better than many portable amps (but better than some). But the Sophia Princess made a very noticeable improvement in the WA6 soundstage and refinement. You owe it to yourself to try this tube (needs 80 hours burn-in).


----------



## junien

thanks for the review dfkt!

 ordered the arrow on the 28/04, any rough estimation when i will get it?

 can't wait!


----------



## Qonad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Qonad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone using the arrow and TF10s atm? How does it sound? What kind of improvements?_

 

BUMP


----------



## PANGES

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *junien* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks for the review dfkt!

 ordered the arrow on the 28/04, any rough estimation when i will get it?

 can't wait!_

 

Month and a half maybe?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 Dammit dfkt, now I'm tempted to buy one to compare with my XM5.... 
 

Is the xm5 significantly better/different than the xm4?


----------



## guitargeek

no one has made a comparison between pico slim and the
 arrow?

 really need more opinions before I choose which amps to buy. will be pairing it with JH13/UM3X and iPod Nano 4G.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guitargeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no one has made a comparison between pico slim and the
 arrow?

 really need more opinions before I choose which amps to buy. will be pairing it with JH13/UM3X and iPod Nano 4G._

 

I just invited a local member in the slim impressions thread to a mini-meet sometime for a comparison. I hope he finds the time to respond.


----------



## h0pkins

I got my Arrow last friday. 
 I'm using it mainly when i'm on the road with my Koss Porta Pro (i know they're not the best headphones around) and on one hand it showed me the downsides of listening music off an iPod but showed me things i haven't noticed before. 
 I love the little fella.


----------



## guitargeek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just invited a local member in the slim impressions thread to a mini-meet sometime for a comparison. I hope he finds the time to respond._

 

Nice. can't wait for it to be reviewed. my hands are itchy for an amp. it's goin to be my first amp.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> Nice. can't wait for it to be reviewed. my hands are itchy for an amp. it's goin to be my first amp.


 
   
  I can't speak for the availability of the other person so you might be in for quite a wait. As the Arrow is > $100 less than the Slim, from what I have heard (and read) IMO it's a no brainer in favor of the Arrow. Even if you are a "digital volume" fanatic you will find the Alps pot on the Arrow excellent, even at very low volumes. At normal listening levels it is perfectly balanced and noiseless. As I  have more than one type of headphone and like adaptability, I doubt there is a question which amp I would prefer.


----------



## keein

Could anyone tell me how it compares to the iBasso T3? After reading parts of this thread I got the impression that it's superior to the T3, would be very nice if anyone could post his view. Thanks!


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





keein said:


> Could anyone tell me how it compares to the iBasso T3? After reading parts of this thread I got the impression that it's superior to the T3, would be very nice if anyone could post his view. Thanks!


 

 http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/486362/headstage-arrow-vs-t3-d-which-to-buy
   
  For sound signatures of the T3 search for skylabs comparos.


----------



## hackfree

have anyone tested westone 3 with Headstage Arrow 12HE,RSA shadow,p51 mustang,pico slim? or at least some of them....


----------



## Mediaogre

Hackfree, this isn't the response you were asking for, I know. However, all of the amps you listed were on my short list prior to buying the Arrow. With the help of all the cool members on this site (and ABI) I chose the Arrow HE12. The main reason after much nail biting deliberation, was the Arrow's advertised versatility. (The price compared to some of the competitors was intriguing too.) We're all pretty much headphone collectors here. My challenge was choosing the "right" portable amp, the first time, that would work well and, hopefully, compliment all of my headphones. A tall order.
   
  I don't own any of your listed phones, but the Arrow behaves as if it were meant for the three sets I _do_ own. And the three are quite different. From 32 Ohm triple armature drivers with crossover IEMs to my 150 Ohm cans. This level of dynamic success is coming to be expected, and the resounding reports from across the forum is the Arrow drives _everything_ well. I have no doubt, and other folks will back me on this, that the Arrow will rock your Westones. They rock my SE530s, which are very similar in design to the Westone 3. And while I wanted an amp to drive all my phones, my purchase priority was to find something that would amp my SE530s to their full potential.
   
  If you're having any reservations, the following features sold me, and continue to make me smile and feel confident in my purchase.
   

 *Auto on/off* - I never have to worry about falling asleep with it and having to reach over, fumble, and turn it off.
 *Three position bass boost* - Level II for the SE530s and they FINALLY have the rich, tight bass they should have with triple drivers and a crossover.
 *Power and Battery Love* (not the official name  ) User replaceable iPod gen 4 battery with connector (no solder points) - No distortion (ZERO) at low battery. It warns you by blinking for a while and then dies a graceful and quiet death.
 *Synergistic gain/impedance dynamic duo *- To me, these settings in conjunction with the Arrow's variable voltage power source (Genius!) is the key to the Arrow's versatility.
   
  I hope this helps. My review at the beginning of this thread is a drunken half wit's editorial flailing (not that there's anything wrong with that) compared to dfkt's review over at ABI. Please, to peep its awesomeness.
   
  -Ogre


----------



## slickooz

Hi guys, I wanted to know if the arrow is going be overkill for my ipod touch 32gb 3G. Im currently pairing it with Ultimate Ear TF10. This will be my first amp, and money is kind of tight. I have seen some amps as low as 9 dollars from FiiO, which would be the better route? I recently bought and ipod touch and the TF10 so I'm kind of tight on money right now. I was thinking of custom headphones to provide better fit, but i would rather have a better SQ.


----------



## koonhua90

Well, if you're really tight on money, then you should not spend it first. I have no heard the Arrow before, but there is no doubt that it will be great. The thing is, I had plans of getting the Arrow too, but on the website it says new orders will only ship in June, which is still a few weeks from now. So I decided to wait a while more, till the stock is available.


----------



## Antony L

if things are tight get a used caffine ultra same opamp ,less bells and whistles


----------



## zappp

After spending heavily on touch and TF10 you should bot cheapen out by putting a $9 Fiio amp in between. Problem with Arrow:
   
  (1) you may be tempted to use other earphones, too. (2) Likely for the coming months there will be at least a 4 week wait.


----------



## wuwhere

My settings are IMP=0, GAIN=III, CROSS=0, BASS=II, I find GAIN I & II too dark for my taste.
   
  My short observations:
  - some burn-in required for the bass to tighten up.
  - this amp has a dark background, it makes it sound dark because of this, it has the darkest background I have ever heard or not heard.
  - relatively easier to understand the music’s lyrics.
  - slightly less airy compared to Pico, D10 & TTVJ MHA.
  - puts bass on my ER4P.
  - it has a laid back sound.
  - it looks anorexic but has a big sound if you want it to.


----------



## slickooz

wuwhere, would you recommend the Arrow for someone who using iPod with UE TF-10?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> slightly less airy compared to Pico


 
   
  Gotta disagree on this one but I don't know which cans your using and I haven't heard the other amps you mentioned. I'm not sure what you mean by dark but Gain III is often too much for me even with HD650s. IMO less gain is better if you can achieve the volume you want with the cans you are using.
   
  Some of your observations _seem_ contradictory, such as dark (black?) background, clearer lyrics & big sound but a laid back sound? Just don't get it.
   
  If you mean by laid back that it's easy to listen to for long periods of time I agree.
   
  I believe dfkt's review is a more accurate perception/description of the Arrow's sound (but we all have different ears).


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Gotta disagree on this one but I don't know which cans your using and I haven't heard the other amps you mentioned. I'm not sure what you mean by dark but Gain III is often too much for me even with HD650s. IMO less gain is better if you can achieve the volume you want with the cans you are using.
> 
> Some of your observations _seem_ contradictory, such as dark (black?) background, clearer lyrics & big sound but a laid back sound? Just don't get it.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not making a comparison with somebody else's review nor am I verifying somebody else's. These are my own observations using my own pair of ears and IEM. You are welcome to disagree. These observations are not negative nor positive in anyway. They are in comparison to my other amps. Yes it is possible to have a blacker background but clear and laid back sound. I have heard this before with my Krell amps powering a pair of full range Apogee ribbon speakers.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> wuwhere, would you recommend the Arrow for someone who using iPod with UE TF-10?


 

 I don't have either of your equipment. The Arrow is very flexible, specially with the gain and bass switches. There's no other portable amp I know of at its price that can beat it. It beats all of my other amps in the bass.


----------



## guitargeek

can JH13 users comment on how the arrow affects the SQ? in terms of soundstage, details, clarity etc.


----------



## Anaxilus

I think you mean warmer not darker or blacker.  Dark/black to me would mean veiled thus lack of clarity and detail.


----------



## wuwhere

Another settings that I like on my ER4P is IMP=I, GAIN=III, CROSS=0, BASS=II. Increasing the impedance by one gives me a higher setting on the volume pot.


----------



## Mediaogre

When I think dark, I think Opeth or Type O Negative.  I wish I was hearing what you guys are hearing.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> When I think dark, I think Opeth or Type O Negative.  I wish I was hearing what you guys are hearing.


 

 You have to compare it with other amps like a Pico or even the iBasso D10.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> Hi guys, I wanted to know if the arrow is going be overkill for my ipod touch 32gb 3G. Im currently pairing it with Ultimate Ear TF10. This will be my first amp, and money is kind of tight. I have seen some amps as low as 9 dollars from FiiO, which would be the better route? I recently bought and ipod touch and the TF10 so I'm kind of tight on money right now. I was thinking of custom headphones to provide better fit, but i would rather have a better SQ.


 

 Hold off until you can drop some bones on the Arrow. Take the time to get to know your wonderful TF10s with out the amp, and paired with your Touch. It'll give you a good baseline for future comparisons.
   
  There's a wait for the Arrow, but good things come to those who wait. And someone already said this, but don't cheapen the experience by getting a cheap amp. With regard to portable amps and IEMs, there's at least one good reason for this: the skilled engineers like Ray Samuels, Robert Gehrke, the dudes at HeadAmp to name a few, focus a great deal on designing the audio, signal paths and power components. Often, these design efforts result in clean audio delivery with NO hiss. I get no hiss with either of my IEMs with the Arrow. So go get two Battle Force 5 Happy Meals with your nine bucks. Or better yet, put it aside for your Arrow.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> You have to compare it with other amps like a Pico or even the iBasso D10.


 

 Oh I know wuwhere - I was totally kidding. I get the context of the descriptive references, I just lack the ear to match the colorful descriptors with the sensation. Maybe in time, and as you implied, with more equipment!


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Another settings that I like on my ER4P is IMP=I, GAIN=III, CROSS=0, BASS=II. Increasing the impedance by one gives me a higher setting on the volume pot.


 

 Folks, wuwhere's settings are a perfect example of the Arrow's ultimate flexibility, versatility, and it illustrates the fact that one can absolutely tweak the Arrow to their heart's and ear's desire. Who'd have thought that the ER4Ps would sound good on GAIN III?! I wouldn't have thought that before I played around (for hours) with the Arrow. But it works for wuwhere, and more importantly it *sounds* good. I occasionally crank the gain up to III even with my SE530s, especially, if there's a lot of outside "environmental" noise to combat, but also because I like how it sounds.
   
  With the ER4Ps, headphones notoriously lacking in bass, it sounds like wuwhere has found a way to cut the highs slightly, drive hard the mids, and really punch out the bass. Sweet!!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Folks, wuwhere's settings are a perfect example of the Arrow's ultimate flexibility, versatility, and it illustrates the fact that one can absolutely tweak the Arrow to their heart's and ear's desire. Who'd have thought that the ER4Ps would sound good on GAIN III?! I wouldn't have thought that before I played around (for hours) with the Arrow. But it works for wuwhere, and more importantly it *sounds* good. I occasionally crank the gain up to III even with my SE530s, especially, if there's a lot of outside "environmental" noise to combat, but also because I like how it sounds.
> 
> With the ER4Ps, headphones notoriously lacking in bass, it sounds like wuwhere has found a way to cut the highs slightly, drive hard the mids, and really punch out the bass. Sweet!!


----------



## slickooz

Thanks for the help. Is there any retail stores that sell portable amps, so I can test them?  I really want to get one but afraid if I don't like it, I'm out few hundred dollars.


----------



## slickooz

I was looking at the Pico Slim and was wondering why it doesn't have knobs for gain, imp, and cross? And it cost more. Why doesn't Pico Slim have those feature and why its more expensive then Arrow? I'm a newb when it comes to portable amps.  Thank you for your help


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> Thanks for the help. Is there any retail stores that sell portable amps, so I can test them?  I really want to get one but afraid if I don't like it, I'm out few hundred dollars.


 

 Its only available on-line from Headphonia. I don't believe they have a try and return policy. If you don't like it you can always sell it at the FS and not lose too much $.

  
  Quote: 





slickooz said:


> I was looking at the Pico Slim and was wondering why it doesn't have knobs for gain, imp, and cross? And it cost more. Why doesn't Pico Slim have those feature and why its more expensive then Arrow? I'm a newb when it comes to portable amps.  Thank you for your help


 

 Now that is a terrific question!


----------



## Hellenback

I'm aware I'm free to disagree as that is much of what forums are for; various views, descriptions and opinions.
   
  I said _parts_ of your statement or opinion _"seem_" contradictory and "I" just don't get it, as in I don't understand what you are trying to say with your description.
   
  When comparing the Pico and the Arrow, which are the only two amps you mentioned that I own(ed) and directly compared after buying the Arrow, I did disagree with the "more airy" statement (which is all that I quoted). More airy to me means a bigger soundstage or "space" between different aspects of the music or instruments within the recording. I personally found the Arrow to have a slightly larger soundstage (more airiness?) than the Pico. This _might_ have been related to the settings I used on the Arrow which are not available on the Pico but I tried to do my comparisons with both amps running "flat".
   
  I don't know which DAC or headphones you were using, which music you were listening to or if you were using a Pico amp/DAC or the straight amp (which would be a more accurate comparison as the Arrow is an Amp only. The Pico amp/DAC has IMO a slight advantage than when using it's DAC with other amps as the signals are shorter and no interconnects are required to connect it (this _might_ be placebo effect but if it is a lot of people are spending way too much on good interconnects).

    
  Quote:


> I have heard this before with my Krell amps powering a pair of full range Apogee ribbon speakers.


 
   
  When making the above statement/comparison, it is much more clear that you are talking about sound preference or presentation as opposed to sound quality or an amp's ability to reproduce the music faithfully.
  To be perfectly honest, I could have lived with either the Pico or the Arrow as they are so similar sounding I would likely not be able to tell them apart in a blind test. They have the same op-amp, both implemented in an excellent manner.
   
  The Arrow has allowed me to not miss the Pico amp/DAC which I sold due to finances.  I think it is testament to the Arrow that it is compared favorably (and is even been preferred by some) to amps costing $100 -> $200 more.
   
  It's often difficult to communicate how things sound to us. We can use different terminology to describe the same attribute or sometimes the same term to describe something different. I meant no disrespect by my statements/opinion as that is all they were.
   
  PS: It seems based on some of the posts following ours that others were confused about exactly what you meant by "dark' as well


----------



## slickooz

Hi HellenBack, since you have owned both of them. Can you please explain to me and maybe other. Why pico slim doesn't have knobs for gain,cross and imp? While the Arrow seem to have more feature and cost a lot less.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> Hi Hellenback, since you have owned both of them. Can you please explain to me and maybe other. Why pico slim doesn't have knobs for gain,cross and imp? While the Arrow seem to have more feature and cost a lot less.


 
   
  First, I owned the original Pico amp/DAC not the Slim model, although many hear them to be very much the same. As far as the switches for settings go the Slim doesn't have as many features as the Arrow, which is one of the reasons I bought the Arrow instead.  Of course the price difference was also a big consideration. The reason for the price difference?....I guess "Made in the USA" costs more than "Made in Germany" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Also because the Pico has such a following, maybe people feel they are not taking a chance with it That's one of the best things about this forum; you can get opinions/reviews before buying. The Arrow has turned out to be a great value, competing with much higher priced amps.
  If you want further information or a good review on it read this review by dfkt (member here on head-fi): http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2010/04/headstage-arrow-12he-headphone-amplifier-review.php
   
  Quote: 





slickooz said:


> Thanks for the help. Is there any retail stores that sell portable amps, so I can test them?  I really want to get one but afraid if I don't like it, I'm out few hundred dollars.


 

 From the Headphonia (Headstage) site:
   
*ARROW HE Warranty:*  • 30-Day Money Back Guarantee   • 2-Year Extended Warranty
   
  The shipping cost on the parcel I received was $7 and change so it doesn't cost much to mail back if you don't like it!


----------



## wuwhere

I've used both of the Headphonia USB DAC Cable and D10 DAC (they both use the Wolfson WM8740 DAC chip). We are using different IEMs and different settings on the Arrow. When I say airy, there is more air around the cymbals and shimmer, for example, not in relation to the size of the soundstage. If an amp truncates the shimmer of cymbals, guitar, or whatever instrument, it can sound dark, to me at least. However, by tweaking the gain and impedance, this can be ameliorated to a certain extent.


----------



## Hellenback

I guess if I am hearing you right, (as you used the word "truncates") I've always referred to what you call airy as decay. I use the Wolfson Dac cable as well (when not using my Pioneer 58av for discs) and find the decay very good and extended when using the Arrow @ impedance 0, no X-feed, gain II & bass I, but as you said we use different headphones. I _do_ love having the tweaking abilities on the Arrow as op-amp rolling would become too much "analysis" for me with my OCD tendencies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and would detract from my enjoyment of the music. Once I've found the sound I like I pretty much stick with it (and I like the AD8397 op-amp).


----------



## wuwhere

That's what I was referring to. I actually prefer the DAC cable over my D10's DAC. For its performance its a bargain. BTW, I like the Arrow over the Pico as well on my ER4P. I'm sure other people would prefer it using a different IEM.


----------



## average_joe

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> That's what I was referring to. I actually prefer the DAC cable over my D10's DAC. For its performance its a bargain. BTW, I like the Arrow over the Pico as well on my ER4P. I'm sure other people would prefer it using a different IEM.


 

 Yes, the USB-DAC-Cable is a bargain.  I like it better than the uDAC!  And for the price, the Arrow is really an awesome amp!


----------



## Hellenback

Joe,
   
  Did you do a comparative review of the Arrow vs. the Pico Slim? If so I can't find it and would sure like to hear your thoughts.


----------



## slickooz

Thanks HellenBack. Yeah read that review, they seem to really like it.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> Hi HellenBack, since you have owned both of them. Can you please explain to me and maybe other. Why pico slim doesn't have knobs for gain,cross and imp? While the Arrow seem to have more feature and cost a lot less.


 

 I bought the Arrow just from reading people's impressions here, the features that it has, price, and the trade in offer. I also read people's impressions of the Pico Slim and from what I gather, they sound very similar, albeit the Pico Slim is slightly warmer and not as dry sounding. The really great features of the Slim is its size, the digital volume control and its looks.


----------



## average_joe

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Joe,
> 
> Did you do a comparative review of the Arrow vs. the Pico Slim? If so I can't find it and would sure like to hear your thoughts.


 

 I wish.  I don't know when I will be getting my Pico Slim.  I do have a Rx to compare it with some day when I get time.
   
  My preliminary comparison is telling me the Rx treble is better and the Arrow bass is a little better.  Also the Arrow is a little warmer.  The Arrow stacks up impressively so far...


----------



## Mediaogre

@ Hellenback and wuwhere (and any others tuned in to the healthy reference debate)
   
   
  Audio noise characteristics are only as good as the source file reproducing the sounds. Much of the ambient noise that fills out a recording is lost during compression. Not as much with the lossless formats like FLAC, which only removes superfluous bits, but certainly with high compression, lossy codecs like LAME and Ogg Vorbis. The audio characteristics known as decay, reverb, echo, etc., are all affected and degraded in some degree by compression, and in some cases, removed entirely.
   
  Hellenback mentioned cymbal decay. If it's present, and assuming I have a good recording and a file with a full audio frequency spectrum that _I know I can hear,_ I can play it back using just a DAP, different amps, the CD through a home amp, and different headphones, and then I can form an opinion on its sonic qualities. If it's missing or degraded, I can't necessarily attribute that to the amp.
   
  Let's take that same song and turn it into an Ogg Vorbiss 320 kbps MP3. An Ogg Vorbis MP3 at 320 kbps cuts off everything above 16 khz and compresses a good deal of the higher range below 16 khz. Bell and cymbal decay occur in the upper frequency range. (Let's not get into the debate over who can and can't hear 16 khz and above  ) A lot of the sonic quality of decay will be lost during compression.
   
  I apologize for veering off-topic, but I wanted to make the point that a lot folks on this forum and participating in this thread listen to compressed audio files. And some folks may not understand the mechanics of compression codecs. In the spirit of audio stewardship, we shouldn't lead them to expect wine from water if the water's missing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  -Ogre and out


----------



## lltfdaniel

I have the arrow amp and ttjv as well as the usb dac stick cable.
   
  I prefer the ttjv portable amp because my arrow amp does not sound so tube like plus when i put gain on 3 and bass on 2 the arrow amp makes my headphones sound cramped and i hear distortion in the sound unlike with the ttjv.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





lltfdaniel said:


> I have the arrow amp and ttjv as well as the usb dac stick cable.
> 
> I prefer the ttjv portable amp because my arrow amp does not sound so tube like plus when i put gain on 3 and bass on 2 the arrow amp makes my headphones sound cramped and i hear distortion in the sound unlike with the ttjv.


 

 Did you set the impedance to 1?
   
  Is your TTVJ the hybrid? The TTVJ sounds more open compared to the Arrow.


----------



## JiPod

Quote:


mediaogre said:


> An Ogg Vorbis MP3 at 320 kbps cuts off everything above 16 khz and compresses a good deal of the higher range below 16 khz.


 
   
  Is this the same with AAC@320 kbps?


----------



## dfkt

Interesting, didn't really ever use Vorbis for anything, or checked the technical details out. LAME MP3 goes higher than 19kHz with even -v2 ~190kbps VBR presets:  http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=LAME#Technical_information
   
  I would have Vorbis expected to be at least on par.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





jipod said:


> Quote:
> 
> Is this the same with AAC@320 kbps?


 

 I believe AAC rolls off around 17 khz, but don't quote me on that. There's a lot of good spectral and frequency analysis material out there on the webz. Keep in mind, it's often more about what sounds good to _you_ than it is about what some colorful, Predator vision graph shows. AAC like OGG produces a very flat response and the compressed reproduction preserves a good deal more data within the "normal" too-much-rock-and-roll human hearing range.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Interesting, didn't really ever use Vorbis for anything, or checked the technical details out. LAME MP3 goes higher than 19kHz with even -v2 ~190kbps VBR presets:  http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=LAME#Technical_information
> 
> I would have Vorbis expected to be at least on par.


 

 We're now officially caroming off topic.  LAME "goes to 11" for sure (all the way to 22 KHz) but humans can't hear that so it's like having a diesel Rabbit with a speedometer that goes to 120 Mph. Even if you can hear past 16 KHz (I personally can't.  My friend has a mastering studio and we've confirmed my un-doglike ears.) much ambient noise is lost in compression and sometimes (with shi**y codecs) replaced with artifacts. Vorbis _is_ on par with LAME - it just does it differently and with a more focused priority in the arguably more important frequency range. That 192 VBR LAME with 19 KHz highs... you *might* hear the "ding" but you definitely won't hear the "diiiiiiiinnnnnggggggg". The encoding algorithm can't support the amount of data required to produce the decay and compress at the same time.


----------



## Hellenback

@ Mediaogre
   
  I never listen to lossy formats. With hard drive space costing next to nothing it isn't worth it. I don't understand people who go to great lengths, spending hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars on gear and then listen to lossy formats of any kind.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> @ Mediaogre
> 
> I never listen to lossy formats. With hard drive space costing next to nothing it isn't worth it. I don't understand people who go to great lengths, spending hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars on gear and then listen to lossy formats of any kind.


 

 Allow me to enlighten inform you. I have a Zune 80 v2. I bought it fully expecting to use the "vast" space for oodles of lossless audio awesomeness. Prior to purchasing it, every review I read and technical blurb I absorbed pointed to the Zune supporting WMA lossless. Well to my painful surprise, it doesn't - at least not well. The Zune software does, but not the device. Every lossless file on the device has a few very annoying, tiny stutters or skips in it. Unfortunately it doesn't support FLAC or I'd try that for the sake of troubleshooting and stepping outside the walled garden. It sucks at gapless playback with high bitrate files too. (What's the point of listening to my favorite prog album gapless if it's in a crappy bitrate?!) My theory, after many tests and forum discussions, is the flaw is isolated to hard drive-based Zunes.
   
  I both hate and love my Zune. But because it doesn't support lossless or gapless, lacks a true line out (MS locked it down by requiring power to enable the line out.) thereby not pairing optimally with my Arrow (Am I back on topic yet?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) means I'm in the market for a new portable this year.
   
  So, I agree with you, Hellenback. I just thought I'd let you know why I'm relegated to lossy formats on my portable "rig" for the time being.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





lltfdaniel said:


> I have the arrow amp and ttjv as well as the usb dac stick cable.
> 
> I prefer the ttjv portable amp because my arrow amp does not sound so tube like plus when i put gain on 3 and bass on 2 the arrow amp makes my headphones sound cramped and i hear distortion in the sound unlike with the ttjv.


 
   
  Do you also have the iQube (as that is your avatar)?
   
  Any particular reason you're using those settings if your headphones sound "cramped and distorted" when doing so? Which tube amps have you used to come to the "tubey" conclusion?
   
  The Arrow amplifies the signal in a very faithful manner when run flat. If you're looking for coloration there are lots of ways to add it. I've been using the Arrow for some time now and the last thing I'd call it is "cramped" or "distorted".
  Maybe if you run it on highest gain and bass boost with the volume on 11 while using a lousy source 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  but why do that unless you plan on going deaf?
   
  What is a "Dac stick cable? There _is_ an excellent line-dac by Headstage, but as far as I know the dac-stick has not been released yet .

 (I was going to just make one post with replies and quotes to both OPs but this new forum makes it way too difficult.)


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Allow me to enlighten inform you. I have a Zune 80 v2. I bought it fully expecting to use the "vast" space for oodles of lossless audio awesomeness. Prior to purchasing it, every review I read and technical blurb I absorbed pointed to the Zune supporting WMA lossless. Well to my painful surprise, it doesn't - at least not well. The Zune software does, but not the device. Every lossless file on the device has a few very annoying, tiny stutters or skips in it. Unfortunately it doesn't support FLAC or I'd try that for the sake of troubleshooting and stepping outside the walled garden. It sucks at gapless playback with high bitrate files too. (What's the point of listening to my favorite prog album gapless if it's in a crappy bitrate?!) My theory, after many tests and forum discussions, is the flaw is isolated to hard drive-based Zunes.
> 
> I both hate and love my Zune. But because it doesn't support lossless or gapless, lacks a true line out (MS locked it down by requiring power to enable the line out.) thereby not pairing optimally with my Arrow (Am I back on topic yet?!
> 
> ...


 

 I wasn't taking a personal shot at anyone and there are obviously times when it is convenient to use lossy formats. I just said *I* don't listen to them and don't understand why people often spend a lot of money to listen to poorly sourced audio through top-end gear.
   
  Now that you have enlightened informed me of your situation I understand why you are doing so.
   
  If you can't sell your portable rig and buy one that supports FLAC or another lossless format, then by all means listen to lossy music....it's certainly better than no music!


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I wasn't taking a personal shot at anyone and there are obviously times when it is convenient to use lossy formats. I just said *I* don't listen to them and don't understand why people often spend a lot of money to listen to poorly sourced audio through top-end gear.
> 
> Now that you have enlightened informed me of your situation I understand why you are doing so.
> 
> If you can't sell your portable rig and buy one that supports FLAC or another lossless format, then by all means listen to lossy music....it's certainly better than no music!


 

 I know you weren't taking a shot. I respect your opinion and your ear, so I wanted to justify my own blasphemous behavior.
   
  I'm seriously considering sneaking a little Clip+ or Fuse under the budget radar. 
   
  OH, and yeah. What you said about double quoting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And what's with the inline larger emoticons forcing double line spacing. :-/


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> And what's with the inline larger emoticons forcing double line spacing. :-/


 
   
   
   
*x2 *
   
  This forum is bug city at the moment. I sure hope they iron things out and bring back at least some of the old (read "better") functions.
   
  Oh yeah, we're off topic....ARROW ARROW ARROW = GOOD.....BETTER....... BEST portable < $400


----------



## wuwhere

I've been burning in the Arrow for the past week and getting acclimated to its sound. I feel that it needs some burning in (can't tell how much but my guesstimate is about 100hrs). It has opened up a bit in the mids and highs. Through Headphonia's USB DAC cable (which sounds warm and laid back) the mids and highs between the Pico and Arrow are close, the Arrow has an edge on the bass.


----------



## TranceDude

Hello,
   
  did anyone here get the chance to test this amp with Westone UM3X, I am especially interested in its reaction to bass boost option.
   
  Thank you


----------



## lltfdaniel

I have the ttjv portable millett hybrid amp yes...it certainly does sound more open which is why i like it.
   
  Yes i have the usc dac cable sorry about my other post...when i put gain on 3 and have it on maximum volume it sounds over powered and sounds like fuzzy noise but yes the amp delivers a clean noise and these are 200ohm headphones so yea..ive tried imp at 1 but same result.
   
  Any case the usb dac cable adds much needed warmth to my dt 48 and pleased with my purchase, it sounds a bit more cleaner than my asus essence stx card.


----------



## wuwhere

The USB DAC cable used to be priced at $59 which is what I paid for. Now its $69.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> when i put gain on 3 and have it on maximum volume it sounds over powered and sounds like fuzzy noise


 
   
  As I said; Why on earth would anyone do that!  Maximum volume on gain III (even with HD 650s which are 300ohm) cans is louder than anyone would ever listen.
   
  People complain when there is no "headroom" on an amp (say for driving higher ohm 600 cans) and then complain when lower ohm cans sound "distorted" when they use Gain III and turn the volume way past the point where anyone would listen to music.....???
   
  At times I listen to music louder than most people I know. I simply cannot turn the volume on the Arrow all the way up with the gain and boost on III.
  If the Arrow is distorting the sound, it isn't the Arrow's fault, it's you using the wrong settings.for your headphones.
   
  Just so you understand what I am saying I'll use an extreme example.
   
  What do you think the sound would be like through some ($1300) sensitive IEMs with *any* amp on  gain high and the volume all the way up up!


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> The USB DAC cable used to be priced at $59 which is what I paid for. Now its $69.


 

 You paid only $59 for the one with the Wolfson chip?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> You paid only $59 for the one with the Wolfson chip?


 

 Yes, I bought it 2/28/2010.


----------



## wuwhere

With ER4P at 27 Ohms and setting the impedance at I (70 Ohms), I'm right about at the impedance of the ER4S.


----------



## JiPod

Is the "impedance setting" on the Arrow for amp output impedance? or for additional impedance (I.e. ER-4 P -> S adapter) between amp output and headphone? Further, does anyone know if the Arrow has caps in the input side?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





jipod said:


> Is the "impedance setting" on the Arrow for amp output impedance? or for additional impedance (I.e. ER-4 P -> S adapter) between amp output and headphone? Further, does anyone know if the Arrow has caps in the input side?


 

 You can email Robert of Headphonia for confirmation. BTW in the manual, it states the following:
   
  BASS, GAIN, CROSS, IMP Adjustment Switches

 The four switches have the following function:

 BASS - improves lower frequencies (bass) by 6 or 12 dB
 GAIN - adjusts the amplification gain (volume range) to 1.2dB, 10.5dB, 20.9dB; using a lower gain results in a lower noise, otherwise the sound is the same
 IMP - adjusts the output resistor to 10, 70 or 120 ohm, a higher resistor cuts off high frequencies, but the result depends on the impedance rating of your headphones - just use the value that you like most
 CROSS - the crossfeed simulates external speakers in a manner that the right ear hears music from the left speaker and vice versa -- the result is a more natural listening experience


----------



## GuyDebord

How is the RFI (radio frequency interference) sensitivity with this amp?


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





guydebord said:


> How is the RFI (radio frequency interference) sensitivity with this amp?


 

 I'm not 100% sure if this qualifies as RFI, but when I have the wifi turned on on my 3g ipod touch or set the amp close to my macbook pro with the wifi enabled, I get this weird clicking/buzzing noise from the amp (usually just in my left earphone). It can get a bit annoying at times, since I'm always listening to it while on my laptop.
   
  On a happier side note: I just ordered a set of Audio-Technica ATH-M50's to try out with the Arrow. Hopefully I like them, if not, i probably wont be returning them back to the store- I'll probably just end up throwing them up for sale on the forums so someone can benefit. lol.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> "How is the RFI (radio frequency interference) sensitivity with this amp?"


 



 I haven't heard of any portable yet that is completely immune to RFI but I believe I read earlier in this thread somewhere the Arrow was one of the better amps in this regard. The search function will help you.


----------



## borrego

While I am still waiting for the delievery of my Arrow. I would like to ask a question to who are already using the amp.
   
  The arrow has 2 line-in sockets. I am wondering if anyone has tried using BOTH the line-in sockets at the same time? I am asking because I would like to also plug the head-phone out of my mobile phone to the 2nd line-in socket of the amp so I can hear my mobile phone rings when I am listening to music from my DAP.
   
  If both sockets cannot be used at the same time, I would have to get a  3.5mm splitter, but I suppose it will degrade audio quality as there are no much choice of high quality splitter unlett I DIY.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





borrego said:


> While I am still waiting for the delievery of my Arrow. I would like to ask a question to who are already using the amp.
> 
> The arrow has 2 line-in sockets. I am wondering if anyone has tried using BOTH the line-in sockets at the same time? I am asking because I would like to also plug the head-phone out of my mobile phone to the 2nd line-in socket of the amp so I can hear my mobile phone rings when I am listening to music from my DAP.
> 
> If both sockets cannot be used at the same time, I would have to get a  3.5mm splitter, but I suppose it will degrade audio quality as there are no much choice of high quality splitter unlett I DIY.


 

 Sounds like a priorities issue. I'm a pimp too, but even I get to ignore my phone for some quality time with Tupac each day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I haven't tried it, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. That said, I don't see why you'd want it to. I usually listen at a high enough volume that an amped phone ringer would blow the top of my head off, not to mention the potential for damage to sensitive armatures and driver diaphragms. Seriously, man - put the phone on vibe and stick it in your pocket, or rest it somewhere in your line of sight where you can see it light up when a call comes in.


----------



## Soletaken

Now that I've decided to go with the Headstage Arrow the wait for June is painful.


----------



## trentino

I agree. I foresee even more delays, first it was may then june...maybe it'll take longer.
  Can't wait to pair the HE with the Classic 160GB, the size is just perfect 
  
  Quote: 





soletaken said:


> Now that I've decided to go with the Headstage Arrow the wait for June is painful.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I haven't heard of any portable yet that is completely immune to RFI but I believe I read earlier in this thread somewhere the Arrow was one of the better amps in this regard. The search function will help you.


 
   
   
  I would encourage anyone who's using some kind of LOD to connect their DAP to their amps is to focus on the LOD shielding as well, not just the amp grounding.  My experience had been that if you're using an unshielded LOD, it acts as an antenna sucking in all RFI into the signal stream.
   
  I've found the Whiplash TWag LODs to be the most impervious during my research and ownership of several LODs.  That doesn't mean they are the only ones, of course.  The pure silver strands of the TWag cable may have something to do with this, I think.


----------



## dfkt

I'm using non-insane/non-ridiculous cables (DIY Mogami, Cordial, etc - studio quality stuff) and I haven't had any RFI mishaps with the Arrow yet.


----------



## PANGES

Does this include the Arrow being close to iphones/laptops using wifi? I'm wondering if there is just something wrong with mine.
  
  Quote: 





dfkt said:


> I'm using non-insane/non-ridiculous cables (DIY Mogami, Cordial, etc - studio quality stuff) and I haven't had any RFI mishaps with the Arrow yet.


----------



## momomo6789

Quote: 





warp08 said:


> I would encourage anyone who's using some kind of LOD to connect their DAP to their amps is to focus on the LOD shielding as well, not just the amp grounding.  My experience had been that if you're using an unshielded LOD, it acts as an antenna sucking in all RFI into the signal stream.
> 
> I've found the Whiplash TWag LODs to be the most impervious during my research and ownership of several LODs.  That doesn't mean they are the only ones, of course.  The pure silver strands of the TWag cable may have something to do with this, I think.


 

  
  the amp its self need's to be shielded not the lod . my low profile lod is shielded and it makes no difference between shielded and not.


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





panges said:


> Does this include the Arrow being close to iphones/laptops using wifi? I'm wondering if there is just something wrong with mine.


 

 Well, it works fine when it's in the same or the next pocket to my cellphone, on the go. Never caught any interference that way. My phone is some older Sony Ericsson, not an iPhone, but I think it should be about the same, regarding RFI.


----------



## High_Q

How much noise is contributed by the RFI versus a typical power supply?  Which is more significant?   I know that when you twist the LOD cable, it isolates the cable from noise better, but how much better is it versus a shielded microphone cable?  I've seen some measurements where RFI was picked up by cables, but that was power cables.


----------



## wuwhere

No RFI problem with my Arrow, I'm using an S-E P990i.


----------



## High_Q

Quote:


momomo6789 said:


> the amp its self need's to be shielded not the lod . my low profile lod is shielded and it makes no difference between shielded and not.


 

 I dont' see  why, if amps are made with metallic casing, shielding out noise(Farday's Cage?), but unshielded cables on the other hand...


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *PANGES*
> 
> 
> 
> Does this include the Arrow being close to iphones/laptops using wifi? I'm wondering if there is just something wrong with mine.


 
  As far as wi-fi goes...I use mine with a laptop and low end adapters/cables and get no noise (unless the Laptop is charging but I get interference with all amps when it's charging).
   
  On another note; I just picked up some Turbine Pro Coppers and initial impressions are _very_ good with this amp. Lots of bass and great across the spectrum with an excellent soundstage for IEMs when using the right tips and amp settings.
   
  I'll post more later in the proper thread when I get done with my move to a new place.


----------



## Mediaogre

^^ You heard it here folks - Hellenback is goin' IEM. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (Can't wait to hear your thoughts. In the appropriate forum, of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Mediaogre

@ folks asking RFI-related questions.
   
  I use mine at work every day right next to my BlackBerry, ten feet from two iPhones, and a few feet from a few more BlackBerrys. No interference so far.


----------



## PANGES

Thank you for the replies, guys. It looks like there might be some sort of issue with my Arrow then, because whenever I have mine near my macbook pro w/ the wifi on, or have the wifi enabled on my 3rd gen iPod Touch, I keep getting buzzing and clicking into my IE8's. Once I turn the WiFi off on the devices, the buzzing/clicking stops.
   
  I suppose I should contact Robert about this; however, I really don't want to have to send the Arrow back to Germany and wait for it to be fixed. lol. It kills me knowing that I'd have to part with it for a while.
   
  Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that a sweet spot for my iPod Touch ->LOD -> Arrow -> IE8's (with the bass knob on the headphone all the way closed/down), seem to be with Gain- III, Bass- I, Cross- 0, and Imp- 1. (I saw someone else mention this setting on Head-Fi and decided to give it a shot and I like it alot).
  
  Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Well, it works fine when it's in the same or the next pocket to my cellphone, on the go. Never caught any interference that way. My phone is some older Sony Ericsson, not an iPhone, but I think it should be about the same, regarding RFI.


 




  Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> No RFI problem with my Arrow, I'm using an S-E P990i.


 




  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> As far as wi-fi goes...I use mine with a laptop and low end adapters/cables and get no noise (unless the Laptop is charging but I get interference with all amps when it's charging).
> 
> On another note; I just picked up some Turbine Pro Coppers and initial impressions are _very_ good with this amp. Lots of bass and great across the spectrum with an excellent soundstage for IEMs when using the right tips and amp settings.
> 
> I'll post more later in the proper thread when I get done with my move to a new place.


 




  Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> @ folks asking RFI-related questions.
> 
> I use mine at work every day right next to my BlackBerry, ten feet from two iPhones, and a few feet from a few more BlackBerrys. No interference so far.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





panges said:


> Thank you for the replies, guys. It looks like there might be some sort of issue with my Arrow then, because whenever I have mine near my macbook pro w/ the wifi on, or have the wifi enabled on my 3rd gen iPod Touch, I keep getting buzzing and clicking into my IE8's. Once I turn the WiFi off on the devices, the buzzing/clicking stops.


 

 When I listen to my Arrow through the USB DAC cable, it is only half a foot from my laptop, and my laptop is on wifi. I hear no buzz or clicks.


----------



## PANGES

Oh... It makes me unhappy to hear that, because even from a foot away, it still does the buzzing/clicking noise because of the WiFi. lol. I am always listening to my Arrow near my laptop with the WiFi on, and when I'm at school, I always have the wifi enabled on my iPod Touch, so it's beginning to become an annoyance. I just sent Robert an Email so we'll see what solution he can come up with. 
  
  Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> When I listen to my Arrow through the USB DAC cable, it is only half a foot from my laptop, and my laptop is on wifi. I hear no buzz or clicks.


----------



## shigzeo

^^ if you are using WiFi with your iPod touch and the iPod touch is driving the amp, you will get noise. It has nothing at all to do with the amp - nothing. It has to do with Wifi. Use your lappy for wifi, and the iPod touch for music then. There is no amp/LOD or 3,5mm cable combo that will fix that. I've noted it in my iPod touch 2G one year on review and tried with many amps. Sorry, but you are stuck with the noise until you turn off Wifi from your iPod.


----------



## PANGES

Even if I have the WiFi off on the iPod Touch, and only use WiFi on my laptop (which is what I do at home, since the amp + ipod sounds better than the IE8's straight out of the macbook pro... and I don't have that DAC cable), the laptop alone will still cause the buzzing and clicking. My apologies if I wasn't clear about that in any of my other posts.... basically any device with WiFi enabled, be it my laptop, or my girlfriend's laptop, will cause my Arrow to buzz/click through my IE8's.
  
  Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> ^^ if you are using WiFi with your iPod touch and the iPod touch is driving the amp, you will get noise. It has nothing at all to do with the amp - nothing. It has to do with Wifi. Use your lappy for wifi, and the iPod touch for music then. There is no amp/LOD or 3,5mm cable combo that will fix that. I've noted it in my iPod touch 2G one year on review and tried with many amps. Sorry, but you are stuck with the noise until you turn off Wifi from your iPod.


----------



## shigzeo

A LOD picks up more noise than a 3,5mm cable for some reason - that too could be a problem. I don't see how the amp, however, is at fault. It is made similarly to other amps.


----------



## PANGES

Hmm. I have a 3.5 male to male cable laying around and decided to test that out by eliminating the LOD, but as I was about to plug the 3.5 m-m plug in, I noticed that with just my headphones plugged into the amp alone, without anything else (amp is on, but no LOD, and no iPod connected to it), if I move the amp+headphone combo near my laptop wifi enabled or near my ipod touch w/ the WiFi enabled, it does the buzzing/clicking still. lol. Unfortunately, it looks like it really is the amp.
   
  Thanks for the advice, btw. lol. This is driving me nuts.
    
  Quote:


shigzeo said:


> A LOD picks up more noise than a 3,5mm cable for some reason - that too could be a problem. I don't see how the amp, however, is at fault. It is made similarly to other amps.


----------



## shigzeo

That would drive me nuts too. My iBasso T3 doesn't do that... but then I get lots of other interference in Korea. The wireless is so strong here that my cyclometer breaks down all the time and blue tooth connections stop working. Everyone with 3 mobiles does it.


----------



## Somnambulist

Would the Arrow be a good match for the s:flo2? It ticks quite a few of the boxes (gain control as the LO is LOUD, bass boost, nice form factor, gets me the cleaner LO signal) and there's a lot of positive reviews here... but several people have said you need a portable amp over a certain quality to make it an upgrade in terms of SQ over the HO of the player. I've never owned a portable amp before so haven't been able to test this out myself.


----------



## dfkt

The Arrow would deserve a better player, but yeah, it sure should work.


----------



## Shauntell47

have you heard the s:flo2, dfkt? I'm asking because you seem to have a grudge against all chinese brands. Just because you didn't like the AMP3 doesn't mean all chinese mp3 players are bad...
   
  clieOS rated it favorably, so it should be pretty good sound-wise


----------



## dfkt

I have also tested the Hifiman exhaustively (you can search for the relevant thread here and on ABI), but this is all rather off-topic for this thread.


----------



## Mediaogre

@ Shauntell47 re dfkt...
   
_Just don't mention Nationite_. OOPS!


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> I have also tested the Hifiman exhaustively (you can search for the relevant thread here and on ABI), but this is all rather off-topic for this thread.


 



  
  Quote: 





dfkt said:


> The Arrow would deserve a better player, but yeah, it sure should work.


 
   
  So what would be the better players? Could you please provide some examples?


----------



## Somnambulist

I got the S:Flo2 for a steal, and it sounds better, clearly better, to me than the only two other sources I've owned - an old Sony NW-HD5 (selling on ebay, Head.Fi shout in there!) and my phone - the iPhone 3GS - all through the headphone out. When I got the Sony I paid over x2 what I did for the s:flo2, and although the iPhone is my phone more than a music source it also cost a lot more than the cheap s:flo2. The firmware was a bit pants, but I'm on 2.2 now and it's perfectly usable. There may be better sounding sources out there, but this is only my 3rd and it's an improvement over the last two, so I'm more than happy. I'm sure in 5 years I'll be using something else anyway, such is technology, but it's working great for me now. But yes, this isn't the thread for that.
   
  The question mainly came from one person here saying he had bad synergy with the player and Arrow, but other posters said it was probably down to him not using the right settings... so I was hoping/waiting for others to give their impressions. It won't be for a while yet so it's not like I'm in a rush.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> @ Shauntell47 re dfkt...
> 
> _Just don't mention Nationite_. OOPS!


 

 Dur... I thought s:flo2 sounded awfully familiar. Was trying to be funny: FAIL.


----------



## shaggy

Quote: 





borrego said:


> so I can hear my mobile phone rings when I am listening to music from my DAP.


 

 Turn on vibrate and put cell in your pocket. It's a surprisingly simple solution.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> The question mainly came from one person here saying he had bad synergy with the player and Arrow


 
   
  If I remember correctly the comment was from a new member with one or two posts who has not been heard from since. A good portable player may not *require* amping but a good amp will not _degrade_ the sound as this person posted.
  (I happen to remember the post as it was so short (and ridiculous 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
   
  Just FYI.....I'm digging these Coppers with the Arrow..some _thumping_ bass for IEMs and great mid-range/upper clarity. I can just imagine what those JH13s sound like if everyone's reviews of them are accurate. I'm glad they're customs so I can't hear them and be tempted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wouldn't be _sorry_ about my wallet...I just wouldn't have one!


----------



## Mediaogre

^^ Sorry. Off topic... but Hellenback, have reviewed your new Coppers in another thread? How do you like them? They're your first pair of IEMs, right?


----------



## High_Q

Quote:


shaggy said:


> Turn on vibrate and put cell in your pocket. It's a surprisingly simple solution.


 
  Are you implying that the interference is caused by the ringing of the phone?  If so, it is not.  A solution is to put the phone alway from the amp, but I think some situation people have no choice but to have the amp and the phone in close proximity of each other.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





high_q said:


> Quote:
> Are you implying that the interference is caused by the ringing of the phone?  If so, it is not.  A solution is to put the phone alway from the amp, but I think some situation people have no choice but to have the amp and the phone in close proximity of each other.


 

 He's not implying anything. The comment was in response to someone who wants to use both line in jacks. One for a DAP and the other for a phone... to hear it ring. (A dangerous idea IMO)


----------



## TranceDude

Quote: 





trancedude said:


> Hello,
> 
> did anyone here get the chance to test this amp with Westone UM3X, I am especially interested in its reaction to bass boost option.
> 
> Thank you


 
   
  Anybody?


----------



## Somnambulist

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> If I remember correctly the comment was from a new member with one or two posts who has not been heard from since. A good portable player may not *require* amping but a good amp will not _degrade_ the sound as this person posted.
> (I happen to remember the post as it was so short (and ridiculous
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ah, thanks. The LOD is really quite loud and someone this or last night in the s:flo2 thread said the high impedance could be problematic w/the Arrow, although that was a 'I think I read somewhere' thing rather than hands on experience. Surely what the gain settings are for though right?
  a?
  Quote: 





feverfive said:


> I thought the sflo2's output impedance was too high for use w/ the Arrow (at least I thought I saw that somewhere)...






   Quote: 





feverfive said:


> I thought the sflo2's output impedance was too high for use w/ the Arrow (at least I thought I saw that somewhere)...


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> Surely what the gain settings are for though right


 
  Yes, that and sometimes personal preference in conjunction with appropriate volume/boost settings.
  If I had very sensitive headphones (low ohm) I wouldn't use a high gain setting at all. Even with HD650s at 300 ohms I can listen at fairly high volume on Gain II.
  It astounds me when I read someone doesn't like an amp because it sounds "distorted" at full volume on the highest gain and bass boost and then say they are using 16-> 32 ohm headphones!
  If there are gain/boost options on an amp, there will always be those who either abuse them or don't know how to use them to obtain optimum SQ from their HPs.
  I like having the the options/headroom for when they're needed and don't use them when they're not.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> ^^ Sorry. Off topic... but Hellenback, have reviewed your new Coppers in another thread? How do you like them? They're your first pair of IEMs, right?


 

 Sorry, I haven't had time with the move and all. I'll be sure to let you know when I get around to it. For now I can say they sound very good across the spectrum with plenty of bass when the right fit is achieved. I am pleasantly surprised at the SQ of these IEMs. From memory they sound every bit as good as the Sure SE530s, but I don't have them for a direct A-B right now so I can't be certain. I wouldn't trade them from what I remember of the 530s as they're not as fragile feeling and I don't remember the bass response being this good. That's from an HD650 user, so take what you will from it for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  This is all through the Arrow of course, taking advantage of it's many settings (just so we're on topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## PANGES

It'd be kinda neat if we could get a list going of what kind of headphones people are using their Arrows for.


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





panges said:


> It'd be kinda neat if we could get a list going of what kind of headphones people are using their Arrows for.


 

 My list (short & sweet):
   
  JVC FX700, Monster Miles Davis, Ultrasone HFI-780 w/Mogami recable.


----------



## Somnambulist

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Yes, that and sometimes personal preference in conjunction with appropriate volume/boost settings.
> If I had very sensitive headphones (low ohm) I wouldn't use a high gain setting at all. Even with HD650s at 300 ohms I can listen at fairly high volume on Gain II.
> It astounds me when I read someone doesn't like an amp because it sounds "distorted" at full volume on the highest gain and bass boost and then say they are using 16-> 32 ohm headphones!
> If there are gain/boost options on an amp, there will always be those who either abuse them or don't know how to use them to obtain optimum SQ from their HPs.
> I like having the the options/headroom for when they're needed and don't use them when they're not.


 

  
  Cheers, that's what I was hoping to hear. Now, to swoon at the Arrow until funds permit me to upgrade!


----------



## swanlee

Hi
  I'm also interested in the Arrow for my SFLO:2.
   
  My XM5 Which I love and installed buffers and better opamps is just to freakin loud with the LO of the SFLO:2, so the gain settings plus lower freq bass boost of the Arrow is something I'm really interested in.
   
  Has anyone used the Arrow with the SFL0:2
   
  Anyone want to trade a tweaked out XM5 in great condition for the Arrow? with buffers and opamps I've put almost 300$ in it and it worked great with my zune but not so much with the SFLO:2.


----------



## musman

Hi!
  What can you say about the Arrow when compared with CORDA XXS / 3MOVE / Ibasso d4 / Shadow....
  I'm looking good AMP for my Sflo:2 and UE10!!


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





musman said:


> Hi!
> What can you say about the Arrow when compared with CORDA XXS / 3MOVE / Ibasso d4 / Shadow....
> I'm looking good AMP for my Sflo:2 and UE10!!


 

 What can I say, man. It's _mostly_ all in here. You may not find every direct comparison you're looking for, but the resounding roar is that the Arrow HE is an extremely versatile, well-engineered, powerful, smart (by smart I mean the variable voltage output feature and other user friendly features like auto-off power) clean amp that's a good value and competes with and outperforms higher priced amps. The other resounding holler is that it pairs well with virtually everything that's been thrown at it. Check out well-respected dfkt's comprehensive report over at ABI. The dude has just about heard it all.


----------



## grokit

The iBasso D4 is not a fair comparison, as it has a DAC and a standard 9v battery in it.


----------



## trentino

Man, I really want a HE amp now. Does anyone know if they have it in stock now? Says June on the home page.


----------



## pekingduck

Quote: 





trentino said:


> Man, I really want a HE amp now. Does anyone know if they have it in stock now? Says June on the home page.


 

 Don't think so..I placed my order in early May and still have not received it...


----------



## shigzeo

Well, I don't know about the HE, but I ordered the DAC cable! Cannot wait to hook that baby up to my T3D which... simply rocks.


----------



## keein

I received an Arrow testamp today and I it sounds brilliant. I had the T3 two or three weeks ago which is also a good amp for its price but the Arrow goes deeper imo and the songs sound more "transparent" and detailed. I had no chance to compare then at the same time but what I can say from my imagination the Arrow beats the T3 in case of sound and of course in case of power. I drive my JH 13 at gain I easily, with the T3 I had to use the highest gain often.
  Now I have to wait for my s:flo2, which should ship on monday and arrive mid next week.


----------



## shigzeo

You shouldn't have to use highest gain on the T3 - it is a very powerful amp. I use the JH13Pro as well and they are waaaaaay too loud from gain one unless the source is very weak.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





trentino said:


> Man, I really want a HE amp now. Does anyone know if they have it in stock now? Says June on the home page.


 

 Do yourself (and your ears) a favor and pull the trigger, don't wait, order one. And then wait.  You may be looking at six weeks, but it's worth it. My order back in February took a month. Email Robert and ask him about lead time. He's a cool dude.


----------



## Mediaogre

WARNING: OFF TOPIC
   
  What's the ****ing deal with all this s: flo2 hype? In my experience, something that sounds too good to be true usually is. I'm sure the Arrow will pair well with it (it does with just about everything so far) but will someone kindly link me to a legitimate review? I want to read what so many people have their small clothes in a wad over. :-/ (Personally, I'm waiting a bit on the Cowon J3.)


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Do yourself (and your ears) a favor and pull the trigger, don't wait, order one. And then wait.  You may be looking at six weeks, but it's worth it. My order back in February took a month. Email Robert and ask him about lead time. He's a cool dude.


 

 X2, get off the fence.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> X2, get off the fence.


 

 LOL. Hey, man. Have you been enjoying yours? I've got my "sweet spots" dialed in for my Zune 80 and Clip+ (both for music) and nighttime movie viewing/listening. Action movies sound fantastic if you have a player lacking in sound enhancements. Crossfeed: cranked, Bass: cranked.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> LOL. Hey, man. Have you been enjoying yours? I've got my "sweet spots" dialed in for my Zune 80 and Clip+ (both for music) and nighttime movie viewing/listening. Action movies sound fantastic if you have a player lacking in sound enhancements. Crossfeed: cranked, Bass: cranked.


 

 Absolutely, after getting used to its sound, I really like it, specially the bass switch. Too bad he can't make these babies fast enough.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Absolutely, after getting used to its sound, I really like it, specially the bass switch. Too bad he can't make these babies fast enough.


 
  I completely agree about the bass and production. I get even better and more versatile use out of the bass switch with my new Clip+. And sorry folks, we're experiencing post traumatic waiting pains (My a** is still sore from sitting on my thumb) and not trying to be insensitive.
   
  I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the assembly/production area.


----------



## musman

look here =)  http://www.mp4nation.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=16221
  Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> WARNING: OFF TOPIC
> 
> What's the ****ing deal with all this s: flo2 hype? In my experience, something that sounds too good to be true usually is. I'm sure the Arrow will pair well with it (it does with just about everything so far) but will someone kindly link me to a legitimate review? I want to read what so many people have their small clothes in a wad over. :-/ (Personally, I'm waiting a bit on the Cowon J3.)


----------



## Mediaogre

Shameless... My Arrow paired with my Clip+ and DIY IC.


----------



## musman

And wich change sound with IEM in this pair?


----------



## Freeze

What is crossfeed I always wondered what that meant?
   
  Are there any other slim amps with the immense amount of options this one has?
   
  The arrow 12he is 100 dollars (soon 150 dollars when pre order pricing gone) cheaper then the pico slim, does the pico slim give a 100-150+ dollar better sound or are you paying that extra money for the smaller size and the accurate volume attenuator?
   
  Once you order the Arrow 12he is it mailed right away or is there a waiting period to get it? I ask this because the Pico slim seems like it's gonna take till christmas to get if you just get in on it now. Don't want to wait a long time for anything I order. Once I pay I want it shipped quickly so does the arrow ship within a few days of ordering?


----------



## pekingduck

Quote: 





freeze said:


> What is crossfeed I always wondered what that meant?


 

 Google is your friend.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossfeed


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





musman said:


> And wich change sound with IEM in this pair?


 

 I don't understand what you're asking. Can you try asking a different way?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Well, I don't know about the HE, but I ordered the DAC cable! Cannot wait to hook that baby up to my T3D which... simply rocks.


 

 The DAC cable is really good for its price.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





freeze said:


> Are there any other slim amps with the immense amount of options this one has?
> 
> The arrow 12he is 100 dollars (soon 150 dollars when pre order pricing gone) cheaper then the pico slim, does the pico slim give a 100-150+ dollar better sound or are you paying that extra money for the smaller size and the accurate volume attenuator?
> 
> Once you order the Arrow 12he is it mailed right away or is there a waiting period to get it? I ask this because the Pico slim seems like it's gonna take till christmas to get if you just get in on it now. Don't want to wait a long time for anything I order. Once I pay I want it shipped quickly so does the arrow ship within a few days of ordering?


 

 No portable hp amp that I know of has these many settings.
   
  I seriously doubt that the Pico Slim would be much better than the Arrow. I also have a regular Pico and overall I prefer the Arrow over it.
   
  The only drawback is it takes some time to get it. But then the Pico Slim also has a long wait.


----------



## musman

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> I don't understand what you're asking. Can you try asking a different way?


 

 How is changed sound of Clip+ with Arrow?


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





freeze said:


> What is crossfeed I always wondered what that meant?
> 
> Are there any other slim amps with the immense amount of options this one has?
> 
> ...


 

 Pekingduck's link explains crossfeed just fine.
   
  There are other amps with good features, but according to the reviews, none as well executed as the Arrow, and most don't have the smart built-in features the Arrow has: user replaceable battery, auto-on/off, variable voltage volume. Please check out ABI dfkt's comprehensive review (with some comparisons). I don't think it's what you meant, but it seems you're suggesting the Arrow has inaccurate volume control. It doesn't. It's accurate and balanced even at low volumes. ZERO crackle. And I don't think "attenuator" is the word you wanted to use. Attenuate means to lessen or reduce.
   
  Please make use of all your resources on the Internet. Robert's product website clearly states new orders will ship in June. Don't take this the wrong way, but if you're asking about crossfeed and accurate volume pots when you haven't done your research, would you be able to tell a difference in sound quality between the Pico and the Arrow even if it existed? Food for thought.
   
  I've learned, with the guidance of the fine folks here and over at ABI, that easing into the audiophile world should be a deliberate and calculated process. You've waited this long to reward your nascnet audiophile. Six more weeks or so won't kill you.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





musman said:


> How is changed sound of Clip+ with Arrow?


 

 Ahhh, Thanks. VERY different. The Zune has zero eq and is flat with a decent but very bright and forward signature. The Arrow helped a lot with that though. The Clip is amazing. For one, I can now play lossless files (so that helps). The Zune chokes on them. And with the Clip's eq, I can really tweak the sound to my liking. Even out the box and flat though, the Clip/Arrow provides a much richer sonic experience.


----------



## shaggy

Quote: 





freeze said:


> The arrow 12he is 100 dollars (soon 150 dollars when pre order pricing gone)


 

 Whaat? Since when is the arrow only $100?


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





shaggy said:


> Whaat? Since when is the arrow only $100?


 

 You didn't process the part of the sentence _after_ the parenthetical... "_$100... cheaper then the pico slim_" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It's still $250 (US) with a rebate if you send him an old amp.


----------



## wuwhere

I traded in an amp and received a $50 off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And with free shipping from Germany its an excellent deal.


----------



## Mediaogre

^^ _WORD_, wuwhere! _What did you trade in?_


----------



## shaggy

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> You didn't process the part of the sentence _after_ the parenthetical... "_$100... cheaper then the pico slim_"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oh my bad, I got excited
  $250 is a bit more than what I'm willing to lay down for a portable amp atm, but this one is particularly tempting


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> ^^ _WORD_, wuwhere! _What did you trade in?_


 

 One of my good amps that I have not given some ear time for awhile.


----------



## Soletaken

If I'm reading this correctly, the current price of $249 is a preorder price?
   
  What is the regular price then, $300?


----------



## PANGES

^ Pretty sure $249 is the regular price.


----------



## PANGES

BTW: Has anyone tried to push 600ohm (specifically the Beyer DT880/ 600 phones w/ the Arrow? I wonder how well (or poorly) the Arrow works with it.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





panges said:


> BTW: Has anyone tried to push 600ohm (specifically the Beyer DT880/ 600 phones w/ the Arrow? I wonder how well (or poorly) the Arrow works with it.


 

 LOL! Yikes! I auditioned the T1 and the Arrow drove them just fine (aside from them stabbing my ears with sibilant highs). I'm not sure if they were 600 Ohm but I think so.


----------



## attika89

Hy everyone!
  I'm considering to buy an Arrow next to my Cowon S9, but I'm not quite sure if it worth buying to use with my ATH-M50 and Monster Turbine Pro Gold...
  What do you think? I mean I've read here that the M50 dont really need amplification, but there are split opinions on that....it might be worth more with the MTPG
  Does anyone have some kind of experience with them?


----------



## violinvirtuoso

Has anyone tried this with the Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10 Pros?

 Or, even better, with the TF10s with an Enyo Cable?
   
  Or, perfection incarnate, with the TF10s, with an Enyo Cable, and the S:Flo 2?
   
  I am considering using this all-purpose amp.
   
  Also, if there is a better amp you prefer please post here or below:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/494882/best-amp-for-ultimate-ears-triplefi-10-ue-tf10#post_6678838
   
  Thanks for any and all help!


----------



## grokit

attika89, violinvirtuoso, just get it, nobody at Head-fi has been dissapointed so far that I can tell.
   
  The only downside seems to be the wait...


----------



## attika89

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The only downside seems to be the wait...


 

 Oh, yes I've read theres a long wait for them, but I dont really know how long...
  Whats the average waiting time? A month? or even more?


----------



## Oomingmak

Quote: 





attika89 said:


> Oh, yes I've read theres a long wait for them, but I dont really know how long...
> Whats the average waiting time? A month? or even more?


 
  Sounds like the average wait time is 3-4 weeks.


----------



## attika89

Quote: 





oomingmak said:


> Sounds like the average wait time is 3-4 weeks.


 

 Thats not that bad....
  Thanks!


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





grokit said:


> attika89, violinvirtuoso, just get it, nobody at Head-fi has been dissapointed so far that I can tell.
> 
> The only downside seems to be the wait...


 

 X2
   
  On Saturday, at 32 Ohm Audio in Portland, I auditioned a gob of top-tier headphones from 32 ohm Grados to 300 ohm Sennheisers. (Some Beyer T1s too that I think are 600 ohm.) The Arrow drove them all well including some IEMs I tried just for fun.


----------



## CEE TEE

On Friday, May 28th (Or Freitag, Mai 28 if you speak German) Robert emailed me back to answer some questions:
   
  "*new orders will ship in about 5 weeks. We still ship the case that will be replaced later. In the moment all orders ship from Germany (but we will ship from CA soon)*."
   
*He clarified:  El Dorado California.*  So it seems like production and distribution will be ubiquitous fairly soon. Robert was very responsive.  I'm in California.  I'm very happy!
   
  (So far, I think Head-Fi has been lucky and responsible for having these producers in close contact with us and so responsive.  I've been very happy with Todd at TTVJ, Ethan at Bugden, Ms. T at Head Direct, and now Robert at Headstage.)


----------



## Oomingmak

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> On Friday, May 28th (Or Freitag, Mai 28 if you speak German) Robert emailed me back to answer some questions:
> 
> "*new orders will ship in about 5 weeks. We still ship the case that will be replaced later. In the moment all orders ship from Germany (but we will ship from CA soon)*."
> 
> ...


 
  5 weeks? On the website it says that new orders will ship in June, 5 weeks puts the shipping date in July ...


----------



## CEE TEE

That was his response right before this weekend...


----------



## Juiced

hi everyone 
   
  i have oredered an arrow a while ago , few days ago "HEADPHONIA" asked me if i whant to wait for the new generation that will be shipped on the end of june or get the current one now , i said i'll wait and asked what's new in the new generation?
   
  this what they replyed:
  Quote: 





> the new generation has 2 headphone jacks, no power switch (only the auto switch), deeper bass boost, better decoupling caps (film caps), longer battery run time and other minor improvements
> 
> Regards
> Robert


----------



## shigzeo

Gee, the new one sounds great!


----------



## GuyDebord

OMG! I just payed for a used one!..... technology!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





juiced said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 1. I don't really need another HP jack.
  2. The current switch is fine by me.
  3. Deeper bass boost???
  4. Better decoupling caps - soundwise improvements???
  5. Longer battery - always welcome.
  6. Other minor improvements - soundwise improvements???
   
  Also,
   
  7. Dimensions? Is it the same as the existing Arrow?
  8. Price?
  9. Trade in my old Arrow?


----------



## JOEYBUCKETS

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> 1. I don't really need another HP jack.
> 2. The current switch is fine by me.
> 3. Deeper bass boost???
> 4. Better decoupling caps - soundwise improvements???
> ...


 
  #9 would agree and would like to know also.


----------



## Mediaogre

X2 on the "deeper bass boost???" (_Really_ :-/ )
  X2 on the welcome battery improvements (especially for use with my yet-to-obtain Senn 650s)
   
  And crap. Old is such a relative term with regard to tech, but sure. I'm mildly curious about trading in my ancient, crusty, relic of an Arrow HE12.


----------



## grokit

I wonder what kind of SQ improvements the new "decoupling caps" offer...


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I wonder what kind of SQ improvements the new "decoupling caps" offer...


 

 Me too. That sq tech goes way beyond my pay grade.


----------



## PANGES

I'm quite fond of my current Arrow, and don't think the new improvements would warrant another super-long wait. The wait for my current Arrow already left me drooling and crying every night.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





panges said:


> I'm quite fond of my current Arrow, and don't think the new improvements would warrant another super-long wait. The wait for my current Arrow already left me drooling and crying every night.


 

 LOL. I remember your waiting woes, man. Yeah I agree. I'm gonna have to take my upgrade fever pills on this trip.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> LOL. I remember your waiting woes, man. Yeah I agree. I'm gonna have to take my upgrade fever pills on this trip.


 

 lol. Yeah. I'm not exactly the most patient person in the world.... I got a set of Audio Technica ATH-M50's last week, and wasn't too impressed with them, since I have Senn IE8's, which, IMO, have a similar sound signature, but sound much better and are much more comfortable to me... So I ended up ordering something different from what I'm used to (Grado SR80i.)
   
  I ordered the Grado's the day after i received the M50's. I just ordered the Grados last week, and have been checking the UPS website several times every day, and have been anxious all weekend, to the point htat my girlfriend is getting annoyed by it... and they STILL don't arrive until tomorrow!! ARRGHH!! lol. =/
  
  You can imagine how anxious I was waiting over a month for the Arrow. I think I'd have some sort of anxiety attack if I had to wait over a month for another Arrow.


----------



## Shauntell47

Guys, guys, now don't get jealous, no need to justify your purchase of the OLD Arrow...
  Robert talked to me about the new generation about 2 months ago, but told me to keep it secret, so i knew all along...
   
  The price is the same, just more features i guess, he didn't tell me about the improvements back then....
   
  So i'm guessing it won't be much better, just a bit different, like going from one Sony mp3 player generation to a next...


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





shauntell47 said:


> Guys, guys, now don't get jealous, no need to justify your purchase of the OLD Arrow...
> Robert talked to me about the new generation about 2 months ago, but told me to keep it secret, so i knew all along...
> 
> The price is the same, just more features i guess, he didn't tell me about the improvements back then....
> ...


 

 Shauntell, I can't express how much better that makes me feel. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 More features? IMPOSSIBLE.


----------



## MrProggie

I have just ordered a Headstage Arrow HE. The cMOY didn't last long. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  But I expect this one to be good enough to keep me from upgrading for a while.
  Shipping time two weeks was the message I got when paying.
   
  Now I also need good portable headphones. Beyerdynamic T50P might be interesting.


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I wonder what kind of SQ improvements the new "decoupling caps" offer...


 

 It's usually a noise elimination thing, decoupling the power circuitry from the audio circuitry, for example. But since the Arrow really doesn't have any audible noise to speak of, I think the improvements are only visible to the very very very very trained eye - just like the case "imperfections" I never noticed...


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> I have just ordered a Headstage Arrow HE. The cMOY didn't last long.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I agree. I'm keenly watching for the release of this portable as well, and hoping it will pair well with the Arrow.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> It's usually a noise elimination thing, decoupling the power circuitry from the audio circuitry, for example. But since the Arrow really doesn't have any audible noise to speak of, I think the improvements are only visible to the very very very very trained eye - just like the case "imperfections" I never noticed...


 
   
  Thanks, I feel better now!
   
  Robert is indeed the perfectionist, already improving a great amp that has no noise to my ears, and never any hiss either even with my "hissiest" IEMs.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks, I feel better now!
> 
> Robert is indeed the perfectionist, already improving a great amp that has no noise to my ears, and never any hiss either even with my "hissiest" IEMs.


 

 Indeed. This is nothing to throw a _hissy_ fit over.


----------



## dfkt

Well, "noise" could also mean THD or IMD, but neither of those are problems for the Arrow either - so I dunno how decoupling caps can improve the sound quality of the amp.


----------



## Oomingmak

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> I have just ordered a Headstage Arrow HE. The cMOY didn't last long.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Who said they would ship in two weeks?


----------



## MrProggie

Quote: 





oomingmak said:


> Who said they would ship in two weeks?


 

 It was an automatic message in the checkout.


----------



## Oomingmak

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> It was an automatic message in the checkout.


 

 Funny, someone posted yesterday that Robert said they would ship in 5 weeks ...


----------



## MrProggie

Let us hope it's two weeks, but there's big chance getting disappointed here I feel.


----------



## Juiced

i asked his permission before i posted .. he agreed .. so mybe something changed after those 2 months ..
  Quote: 





shauntell47 said:


> Robert talked to me about the new generation about 2 months ago, but told me to keep it secret, so i knew all along...


----------



## Shauntell47

Quote: 





juiced said:


> i asked his permission before i posted .. he agreed .. so mybe something changed after those 2 months ..


 
   
  Yeah, he just wanted to keep it secret for a while longer...
   
  Btw, I'm guessing the person getting their Arrow in 2 weeks will get the "old" generation...


----------



## junien

any idea if the new generation arrow will sound different from the old?


----------



## Soletaken

Quote: 





junien said:


> any idea if the new generation arrow will sound different from the old?


 

 It's only going to sound 1 million, maybe 2 million times better at most.


----------



## Mediaogre

@ junien,
   
  Please read thoroughly. This is a quote from dfkt just one forum page back about the possible improvements...
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> It's usually a noise elimination thing, decoupling the power circuitry from the audio circuitry, for example. But since the Arrow really doesn't have any audible noise to speak of, I think the improvements are only visible to the very very very very trained eye


 
   
   
  dfkt has reviewed One Metric Ton of equipment. I trust his word. Robert's improvements will be little details things. He wants to get things perfect, and in this context, "perfect" has room for interpretation. IMO, the current HE12 is about as close as it gets.
   
  @ Soletaken (someone stole your shoes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





),
   
  Hardly a productive comment.


----------



## Soletaken

Sorry, it wasn't meant as a serious comment, I guess I should have added a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or something at the end.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





soletaken said:


> Sorry, it wasn't meant as a serious comment, I guess I should have added a
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 S'ok. _HEY_, people take their Arrows seriously here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  _(Especially those of us who have the "old" one.)_


----------



## MrProggie

Got a new message from Headphonia today. New order status: *Order **processing*. Whatever that means.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> S'ok. _HEY_, people take their Arrows seriously here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's true. Us antique collectors don't know the meaning of humor.


----------



## slickooz

When is the new one coming out?


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> When is the new one coming out?


 

 Someone heard end of June.
   
  @ Everyone asking about lead time and when is this and that coming, etc... these comments belong in the ZOMG CAN I HAS MY ARROWZ YET?! thread that Shauntell47 started.


----------



## PANGES

I was just talking to Robert about the new Arrow and asked about those who have the current Arrow and may want to get a new Arrow, and he said "it will cost about $30 to exchange the old to the new generation (incl. shipping and new battery)."
   
  I wonder if it'd be worth it just for the extra headphone jack, better battery, and "better" bass boost.


----------



## wuwhere

When can we see a picture of the new Arrow?


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> When can we see a picture of the new Arrow?


 

 My guess is that it looks exactly the same, with the only differences being that the port for the USB cable will now be where the power switch is (since Robert plans to remove the power switch all together), and where the USB port used to be, the additional headphone jack will most likely be there.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





panges said:


> My guess is that it looks exactly the same, with the only differences being that the port for the USB cable will now be where the power switch is (since Robert plans to remove the power switch all together), and where the USB port used to be, the additional headphone jack will most likely be there.


 

 Soundwise, any other changes besides the deeper bass?


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Soundwise, any other changes besides the deeper bass?


 


 lol. Beats me. I actually don't mind blowing the extra $30 for the new generation just to see what's new, but I just don't think I could withstand another month-long wait time.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





panges said:


> I wonder if it'd be worth it just for the extra headphone jack, better battery, and "better" bass boost.


 

 Wow, the battery life is so good already; amazing that it could be improved upon!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





panges said:


> lol. Beats me. I actually don't mind blowing the extra $30 for the new generation just to see what's new, but I just don't think I could withstand another month-long wait time.


 

 Same here, however, he changed the decoupling cap and that could affect the sound slightly. My only quibble with the Arrow is I would like a little more extension at the top.


----------



## Mediaogre

Crud. I could use the extra battery capacity. In two weeks I'll be driving some HD650s with it. I'll wait for some official specs.


----------



## Somnambulist

Ha, good thing I am too poor to afford the Arrow at this point. By the time I will... it'll be a newer version.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Crud. I could use the extra battery capacity. In two weeks I'll be driving some HD650s with it. I'll wait for some official specs.


 

 I'm planning on getting some HD650's soon too, but will most likely be driving them with a desktop amp.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





panges said:


> I'm planning on getting some HD650's soon too, but will most likely be driving them with a desktop amp.


 

 For what it's worth, I drove some HD650s with my Arrow last week and performed extremely well. (Hellenback can speak to that pairing as well.)


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> For what it's worth, I drove some HD650s with my Arrow last week and performed extremely well. (Hellenback can speak to that pairing as well.)


 

 Oh I see. Maybe I'll give it a shot before I pull the trigger on a desktop... I was looking into the Little Dot amps.. Seems like a good starter amp.


----------



## attika89

Hy everyone!
  Its gonna be kinda off topic but I'm a little confused...
  As i've mentioned before I'm planning to buy an Arrow, BUT I dont know what would be better:
  - Buy the Arrow and use it with my current "rig" and save up for some HD600
  or
  - buy a used HD600 now and then save up for the Arrow?
   
  I dont know...The first option might be better but I'm not sure...
  What do you think?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





>


 
   


  Quote: 





attika89 said:


> Hy everyone!
> Its gonna be kinda off topic but I'm a little confused...
> As i've mentioned before I'm planning to buy an Arrow, BUT I dont know what would be better:
> - Buy the Arrow and use it with my current "rig" and save up for some HD600
> ...


 
  I'm using Turbine pro Coppers (as well as HD650s) and I'd suggest get the Arrow as it will give your Golds new life. It will make the wait for the 600s easier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just my 2 cents.


----------



## attika89

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I'm using Turbine pro Coppers (as well as HD650s) and I'd suggest get the Arrow as it will give your Golds new life. It will make the wait for the 600s easier
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah! I've read most of this thread again... I think you're right!
  I was thinking about the same...
  But as I see I have to wait cos our fabulous currency s*cks right now ( US$1 = 230HUF (Hungarian Forints) right now...yesterday it was 225... and 1,5 months ago it was 185 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...i wonder how far it will go....I love this country 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ....oh and € is even "better")


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> For what it's worth, I drove some HD650s with my Arrow last week and performed extremely well. (Hellenback can speak to that pairing as well.)


 

 Me too.  There's really no obvious difference regarding dynamics, soundstage, frequency response, or anything else between driving the HD650 from my Woo6 and my Arrow (besides the obvious tube harmonics).


----------



## feverfive

Blech...I'm also intrigued by the newer version of the Arrow even though I try to avoid chasing marginal improvements in tech (of course, I'm making an assumption about the level of improvement here).  [sigh]  In then end, I'm loathe to go through another waiting period, so I won't be sending mine in to get upgraded.  Waiting for my first one to arrive was enough of a pain; I'll wait a while before doing that again (yeah, I'm an impatient person).


----------



## wuwhere

I kinda doubt that it will sound much different from the existing Arrow. I like the bass. However, my preferences are a little more extension at the top and the mids a little more forward. But this may make it sound bright for other people. So I may just stick with the Arrow that I have now.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> I kinda doubt that it will sound much different from the existing Arrow. I like the bass. However, my preferences are a little more extension at the top and the mids a little more forward. But this may make it sound bright for other people. So I may just stick with the Arrow that I have now.


 

 I agree. Although through the HD650s I auditioned through the Arrow, _every_ frequency sounded bitchin and balanced. I've never before heard treble with that level of separation and detail. I also think frequency presence (perhaps not extension) has a lot to do with the DAP. Now that I'm getting the hang of my Clip+, I'm dialing back on the bass - even with my SE530s which are _bass_ically anemic. However, my flat as a (insert rude metaphor here) Zune, paired with the Shures and Arrow still needs a punch in the bass. I don't know what to make of "more" bass. As it is, now that I've acclimated to its signature, the Arrow's BASS II setting is too much for me.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> I agree. Although through the HD650s I auditioned through the Arrow, _every_ frequency sounded bitchin and balanced. I've never before heard treble with that level of separation and detail. I also think frequency presence (perhaps not extension) has a lot to do with the DAP. Now that I'm getting the hang of my Clip+, I'm dialing back on the bass - even with my SE530s which are _bass_ically anemic. However, my flat as a (insert rude metaphor here) Zune, paired with the Shures and Arrow still needs a punch in the bass. I don't know what to make of "more" bass. As it is, now that I've acclimated to its signature, the Arrow's BASS II setting is too much for me.


 

 This could very well be due to the frequency response of my ER4P. However, I get more air from my D10 and TTVJ Hybrid. One thing that I'm theorizing is that the noise floor/distortion of the Arrow is much lower than either of those amps.


----------



## wuwhere

I switched to my ER4S which has a more forward mids and highs. This is the first time that I listened on my ER4S through the Arrow. And sure enough the mids are a little more forward and highs too, more open, just what I like.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> I switched to my ER4S which has a more forward mids and highs. This is the first time that I listened on my ER4S through the Arrow. And sure enough the mids are a little more forward and highs too, more open, just what I like.


 
   
  Ahh, experimentation is a good thing! You're just flaunting your Etymotic collection though.  Glad to hear you're getting what you want. It's hard to describe that sensation to the typical earbud 128Kbps "CD quality" listener.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Ahh, experimentation is a good thing! You're just flaunting your Etymotic collection though.  Glad to hear you're getting what you want. It's hard to describe that sensation to the typical earbud 128Kbps "CD quality" listener.


 

 LOL, Etys until I get a custom.


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Ahh, experimentation is a good thing! You're just flaunting your Etymotic collection though.  Glad to hear you're getting what you want. It's hard to describe that sensation to the typical earbud *128Kbps "CD quality"* listener.


 

 Nowadays CD quality actually means 320kbps.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Nowadays CD quality actually means 320kbps.


 

 Dude, I was being sarcastic.  If you ever get the chance to play around with sound files in a spectral analysis tool, you'll find that 320 doesn't preserve the CD quality. It's funny, but I've got relatively recent conversion tools that still list "128 Kbps (CD Quality)" in the in the bitrate settings preference menu. It's beyond silly.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





attika89 said:


> Hy everyone!
> Its gonna be kinda off topic but I'm a little confused...
> As i've mentioned before I'm planning to buy an Arrow, BUT I dont know what would be better:
> - Buy the Arrow and use it with my current "rig" and save up for some HD600
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I'm using Turbine pro Coppers (as well as HD650s) and I'd suggest get the Arrow as it will give your Golds new life. It will make the wait for the 600s easier
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 OTOH, you could get the 600s now and actually use them, and get the Arrow later when there is less wait time and you will perhaps appreciate the difference it brings more. If you order the Arrow now, it could be a month or two without _any _new toys...


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





grokit said:


> OTOH, you could get the 600s now and actually use them, and get the Arrow later when there is less wait time and you will perhaps appreciate the difference it brings more. If you order the Arrow now, it could be a month or two without _any _new toys...


 
   
  Grokit is right- get something that can give you more of an instant gratification. If you buy the 600's, you can have them in your hands in 1-2 weeks, whereas if you order the Arrow, you wont be getting it for a minimum of 1 month.
  
   
  BTW: This is a bit off topic, but since we're on the topic of the Senn HD 6x0's, has anyone hear the 600/650's and a pair of Grados? I've actually been listening to a set of Grado SR80i's for a few days and like them, but my house is too noisy to really listen to them (too much noise leaking both in and out). I'm ready to order the HD650, but I'm worried it's going to leak in and out just as much. 
   
  That and I can't find the HD650's for a good price. The cheapest I've found is around $400, but I keep reading of people getting them for around $300ish. =/


----------



## violinvirtuoso

I can't speak from personal experience but seeing as both are fully open headphones the sound leakage should be similar. On the other hand, the SR80i are superaural and the HD650s are circumaural.
   
  It depends on whether you want new, used, or new with warranty. If you want the best deal with warranty, you need an authorized dealer, check for this specifically wherever you buy it from.
   
  If you want just New, NIB, or used, you can find it for less than $400. Amazon has it for less than $400.
  The two best places to check are ebay.com and head-fi's FS Forums. Check out these links:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/493136/fs-sennheiser-hd650-perfect-as-new-condition
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Sennheiser-HD650-HD-650-Open-Audiophile-Pro-Headphones-/220615019636?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item335dae0c74
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Sennheiser-HD-650-Audiophile-Headphones-HD650-NEW-/200478316827?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ead70591b
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Sennheiser-HD650-HD-650-Pro-Stereo-Headphone-BRAND-NEW-/330439769603?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cefbebe03
   
  You will have to wait and check constantly to find it for $300 or less.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





panges said:


> Grokit is right- get something that can give you more of an instant gratification. If you buy the 600's, you can have them in your hands in 1-2 weeks, whereas if you order the Arrow, you wont be getting it for a minimum of 1 month.
> 
> 
> BTW: This is a bit off topic, but since we're on the topic of the Senn HD 6x0's, has anyone hear the 600/650's and a pair of Grados? I've actually been listening to a set of Grado SR80i's for a few days and like them, but my house is too noisy to really listen to them (too much noise leaking both in and out). I'm ready to order the HD650, but I'm worried it's going to leak in and out just as much.
> ...


 

 Hey Panges,
   
  I've auditioned the 650s and a few Grados. Read my thoughts in the Senn HD650 appreciation thread. For me, the balance and detail of the 650 couldn't be beat. (However, I made a conscious and painful effort to stay away from the GS1000 and HD800 though.  )


----------



## MrProggie

LOL. I love my Sennheiser HD650's. My best buy in months. Got them cheap used. Looking forward to pairing them with the Arrow HE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Now I also want to buy silver cables for the headphones. And those cost almost the same as the Arrow HE.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Me too.  There's really no obvious difference regarding dynamics, soundstage, frequency response, or anything else between driving the HD650 from my Woo6 and my Arrow (besides the obvious tube harmonics).


 

 So, are you saying the Woo WA6 is no better than a portable amp costing 1/3 as much, or that it's only with the HD650 that you don't hear an obvious difference?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  I'll admit that I'm not a big fan of the HD650 (HD600 I love), but with just about any other headphone my maxed WA6 with upgraded tubes beats any portable amp that I have tried, the Edition 9 being the exception.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





violinvirtuoso said:


> I can't speak from personal experience but seeing as both are fully open headphones the sound leakage should be similar. On the other hand, the SR80i are superaural and the HD650s are circumaural.
> 
> It depends on whether you want new, used, or new with warranty. If you want the best deal with warranty, you need an authorized dealer, check for this specifically wherever you buy it from.
> 
> ...


 




  Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Hey Panges,
> 
> I've auditioned the 650s and a few Grados. Read my thoughts in the Senn HD650 appreciation thread. For me, the balance and detail of the 650 couldn't be beat. (However, I made a conscious and painful effort to stay away from the GS1000 and HD800 though.  )


 

 Thanks guys, for the responses. I was looking on Headphone.com (headroom) and noticed in the description for their HD650 listing, it says when you check out, type in "hd650" as the promo code for the best price. After I did that, the price came out to $349 shipped. lol. I guess I'll be ordering my set. I'm sure if I'm more patient, I can get them cheaper on Amazon or used here, but I don't mind paying a little extra for an authorized dealer w/ warranty.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> So, are you saying the Woo WA6 is no better than a portable amp costing 1/3 as much, or that it's only with the HD650 that you don't hear an obvious difference?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I think DFKT was saying exactly what you quoted: there is "no obvious difference regarding dynamics, soundstage, frequency response, or anything else between driving the HD650 from my Woo6 and my Arrow (besides the obvious tube harmonics)". 
   
  No, you can add in whatever you want to that, but I think it will be pretty hard to disagree with these facts: both amps are amazing, and both have different flavours. The Arrow probably can drive the HD650 as well, but not quite as loud. What it doesn't do is the soft, awe-inspiring harmonic distortion of a nice tube amp. 
   
  Whether the upgraded WA6 that you love is the product of the tube harmonics or not is up to anyone's guess, but in terms of brute performance, the two are probably very close indeed. The rest is up to individual listening habits. I for one happen to really love the smooth sound of tubes with a number of my headphones, but not all.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> "in terms of brute performance, the two are probably very close indeed"


 

 I love my Arrow, but haven't many here at Head-fi sung the praises of things like "raw current", and "voltage swing", which can only come from "heavy iron transformers", and are required for the elusive "headroom" that is supposed to make all of the difference on some of these harder to drive dynamic headphones like the HD650?


----------



## shigzeo

Yeah, people harp on about those things all the time here. Not really sure why. The HD650 doesn't swing around in impedance as much as a lot of headphones. In fact, it probably doesn't dip below 100Ω ever along its frequency response. There are a lot of theories as to why it sounds good with some gear and not good with others, but it isn't to do with power. Sure, some music and some sources may have better 'synergy' with them - more emphasis on the treble, or less channel bleed, but in reality, the HD650 are not 'hard to drive' - at least not in comparison to monsters like the K701. The impedance swing is just much milder with the HD600.
   
  You don't need a 1000$ amp to make them sound good. They will sound phenomenal from a cheap amp, but you need to keep in mind your own perceptions of the sound you want. The Arrow more than has enough power to do the HD650 justice, as long as you can get out of the bubble that says it cannot because of its size. It may not get loud enough - that may be true, but it cetainly should be able to drive the headphone as good as the next amp.


----------



## LevA

well my interest is piqued...generally I tend to come across people saying the opposite about portable amps here in head-fi eg.
  "*it may get loud enough but that doesn't mean it drives it to its potential (or even decently*)"...
   
   
  Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Yeah, people harp on about those things all the time here. Not really sure why. The HD650 doesn't swing around in impedance as much as a lot of headphones. In fact, it probably doesn't dip below 100Ω ever along its frequency response. There are a lot of theories as to why it sounds good with some gear and not good with others, but it isn't to do with power. Sure, some music and some sources may have better 'synergy' with them - more emphasis on the treble, or less channel bleed, but in reality, the HD650 are not 'hard to drive' - at least not in comparison to monsters like the K701. The impedance swing is just much milder with the HD600.
> 
> You don't need a 1000$ amp to make them sound good. They will sound phenomenal from a cheap amp, but you need to keep in mind your own perceptions of the sound you want. The Arrow more than has enough power to do the HD650 justice, as long as you can get out of the bubble that says it cannot because of its size. *It may not get loud enough - that may be true, but it cetainly should be able to drive the headphone as good as the next amp. *


----------



## shigzeo

Yes, unless the amp is pushing an impedance lower than it can handle at the specific volume, or is out of batteries, or a number of other things, it should not hit an overhead. I've not heard a single quality portable amp that I wouldn't be able to use as a reference and I am a home (mains) amp user and have been for years. 
   
  I like both, but I won't tell you to buy a home amp when you want a portable unless you are buying a headphone that really needs hard impedance matching. Most moderate-high Ω headphones just don't swing as badly as low Ω headphones. When driven form a good portable like a P3+ or FiQuest and level-matched, they will sound almost the same as a very expensive mains amp (as long as that mains amp is neutral). The 'better' sound often comes from colouration in the signal, not because the headphone is being driven 'better' or 'worse'. There are headphones that need more power, but by and large they won't be phones like the HD650. That one tends to sound best with goodly stereo separation. Some people like adding in tube harmonics, others like speed and cleanliness of a SS amp. 
   
  I tend to be neutral - they sound good and to each his own. If you want volume, however, I'd suggest a powerful portable amp or a mains. But you don't need an expensive amp to run them well.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> "in reality, the HD650 are not 'hard to drive' - at least not in comparison to monsters like the K701. The impedance swing is just much milder with the HD600"


 
   
  Thanks for the response, this is interesting to me. I have some K701s that sound pretty  good with hi-gain cheaper amps like my Indeed/Bravo hybrid and the Maverick D1 I had, yet they sound anemic through other things like my receiver and a couple of other low/mid-fi SS amps I have used.
   
  Even my EF5, which drives my HE-5 well, didn't make the K701 sing like these cheaper higher gain amps did. *edit*: For the record, I am curious as to whether I will still like the Indeed/K701 combo as much as I did "before", since my listening ability has matured somewhat since then.
   
  Although the K701 and the HE-5 both need a lot of "juice", when I plugged in the HE-5 to the Maverick they barely got loud enough to listen through. I don't have a $1,000 amp, the EF-5 is the best I have now but I am drooling over the LD MKVIII for balanced use.
   
  I don't really know where I am going with this, because the Maverick drives the K701 and not so much the HE-5, yet the EF5 drives the HE-5 and the K701 to a similar volume level, while having bad synergy with the K701.
   
  I would imagine that the Arrow would be the most comparable to the traditional SS amps, which seem to do best with my HD600 and SR325i, and drives my friend's HD650 adequately as well. I use my Arrow primarily for IEMs, because my older portable amp, the Simpl A1, makes many IEMs hiss but sounds fantastic with HD600...




   
  There is much I don't yet understand about the fundamentals of amplifier synergy with various headphones, and I truly wonder if I ever really will. There are so many variables on both the headphone side (impedance, efficiency,?) and the amp side (voltage, current, gain, impedance,?) of this equation, that to grok the way they interact exactly is a tough nut to crack!


----------



## shigzeo

Well, a lot of receivers have output impedance of ~120Ω, which is problematic for headphones that output mainly less than that. Headphones that don't go below 120Ω may not really have any noticeable frequency response enhancements with a phono out like that, but that output may have pretty lax component sound for other benchmarks like stereo separation and harmonics. 
   
  There is no 'perfect' amp simply because people are looking for different things. I tend to like two flavours: precise (for iems), and laid back (for large phones). Thus, I love tubes, but I also love solid state amps. The K701 needs an amp that can sustain good signal down low, maybe around 20-30Ω, but still supply power when the volume goes up. No headphone is perfectly linear and that is why amps need to made to work with both low and high Ω loads, but primarily, lowΩ loads are harder to 'drive' as long as 'drive' doesn't mean: volume, harmonics, special sauce.


----------



## loopfreak

Quote: 





> Even my EF5, which drives my HE-5 well, didn't make the K701 sing like these cheaper higher gain amps did. Although the K701 and the HE-5 both need a lot of "juice", when I plugged in the HE-5 to the Maverick they barely got loud enough to listen through. I don't have a $1,000 amp, the EF-5 is the best I have now but I am drooling over the LD MKVIII for balanced use.
> 
> I don't really know where I am going with this, because the Maverick drives the K701 and not so much the HE-5, yet the EF5 drives the HE-5 and the K701 to a similar volume level, while having bad synergy with the K701.


 
   How does arrow compete with ef5 or maverick in terms of driving akg k701? There are impressions with hd 650 but not a single one with k701 which are harder to load.


----------



## shigzeo

My DJ1Pro, which are 64Ω phones, tend to sound deeper from certain amps and I've found that they gain a few decibels in the 50-80Hz area. I'd imagine the K701 is similar, preferring higher voltages than other headphones, at least to coax out an extra load of bass, whether that is natural or unnatural. The DT880 600Ω on the other hand, is quite different. It doesn't really change much at all, but loves warm sounding amps (or at least that is my preference with them), the reason I love the WA3/DT880 pair.


----------



## The Larch

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> Now I also want to buy silver cables for the headphones. And those cost almost the same as the Arrow HE.


 

 Do you think these will improve sound?  Why not get a new set of cans for a different flavor?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





loopfreak said:


> How does arrow compete with ef5 or maverick in terms of driving akg k701? There are impressions with hd 650 but not a single one with k701 which are harder to load.


 

 Finally found my Grado adapter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The Arrow continues to impress. Not only does it drive every IEM I have thrown at it without hiss, but it actually does pretty well with the K701s. Mine are wired with a silver dragon cable. So then I thought, "how about the Arrow with the HE-5?" The HE-5 didn't get as much volume as the K701 but it got enough to sound really good, better than the K701s but they are better headphones. I tried the K701 out of the A1 and no dice, not a good combo at all. The HD600 seems to be it's "sweet spot", which is a shame because it's a nice-looking combo with the K701 (all white), but I digress.
   
  Back to the HE-5 and the K701 with the Arrow, while they sounded good with it they also showed me the limitations of the Arrow with this kind of uber-demanding headphone, as it seems to distort a bit during more complex passages at high volume. I would intuit that this is because it is only 12 volts, and doesn't quite provide the swing needed to give these cans the headroom they need. I am not sure if distort is the right word, they just seem under-driven in some sense. Although the volume level is higher with the K701, this issue is more apparent as well. Similar to their differences out of the EF5, but more apparent.
   
  Plugging my K701s into the EF5 now, they sound a bit better than they used to in comparison to the HE-5 before I upgraded my DAC. This tells me that the K701 is still capable of "scaling up", and that they are less forgiving of imperfect sources than the HE-5. But I digress again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I don't have the Maverick anymore and the Indeed has been offline for awhile, but I would like to get it into this mix for comparison's sake. And for the record, I am curious as to whether I will still like the Indeed/K701 combo as much as I did "before", since my listening ability has matured somewhat since then. Although it showed me it's first sign of weakness, the Arrow really does quite well with these headphones, which are both notorious for being difficult to drive properly.
  I continue to be blown away by the power and versatility of my Headstage Arrow HE


----------



## loopfreak

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> My DJ1Pro, which are 64Ω phones, tend to sound deeper from certain amps and I've found that they gain a few decibels in the 50-80Hz area. I'd imagine the K701 is similar, preferring higher voltages than other headphones, at least to coax out an extra load of bass, whether that is natural or unnatural. The DT880 600Ω on the other hand, is quite different. It doesn't really change much at all, but loves warm sounding amps (or at least that is my preference with them), the reason I love the WA3/DT880 pair.


 




  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Finally found my Grado adapter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for impressions. Seams that arrow competes well with good entery home amps.
  I m not  a typical akg owner, dont find them lacking in lows and like that transparent sound. Want to extend unbelievable soundstage and get better positioning from k702. Arrow has some great abilities , to be powerful , portable and small  and for the price its quite tempting but only  in month or two . Have akg k601 too wich are more power hungry and could be a problem, its like akg curse


----------



## Mediaogre

@ Shigzeo and Grokit,
   
  You guys continue to make me smile with your down-to-earth thoughts spun out of hard-to-grasp vernacular. Thank you for your well-thought responses and general reining in of the hype, e.g., reminding us that one doesn't need to spend a proportionate amount of clams on an amp in order to reach sonic satisfaction with an expensive and/or historically cranky headphone. You guys also remind me how much reading and learning I have to do. 
   
  For what it's worth, when I auditioned the HD650 using the Arrow and my mighty little Clip+, I had the Clip+ at around 3/4 volume and the Arrow at around 2/3 using the GAIN III setting. It was loud and clean. I could have gone louder but I didn't want to embarrass myself in front of Curtis at 32 Ohm Audio. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm actually glad I didn't because it gave me a chance to appreciate the quality and texture of sound I was getting at a "reasonable" volume level.  I can't wait until I have those re-cabled HD650s in my hot little hands, and an empty house (my wife doesn't understand the characteristic external loudness of open backed phones) to do some serious driving.


----------



## Hellenback

Seems there are a few of us that like our music on the _louder_ side


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Seems there are a few of us that like our music on the _louder_ side


 

 Sorry what was that?? Couldn't hear you....


----------



## shigzeo

Right, so I don't have the Arrow... But my USB/DAC cable arrived and it is quite nice. I've decided to do a review, but that will be in a few weeks full of impressions, stowage, and benchmarks. Love it with my iBasso T3D and FiQuest.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Right, so I don't have the Arrow... But my USB/DAC cable arrived and it is quite nice. I've decided to do a review, but that will be in a few weeks full of impressions, stowage, and benchmarks. Love it with my iBasso T3D and FiQuest.


 
   
  Looking forward to it!


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Right, so I don't have the Arrow... But my USB/DAC cable arrived and it is quite nice. I've decided to do a review, but that will be in a few weeks full of impressions, stowage, and benchmarks. Love it with my iBasso T3D and FiQuest.


 

 The Headphonia Wolfson version? That would be sweet as I'm seriously considering it. Can't wait to see what you think about it.


----------



## shigzeo

I think there is only one version; and that version, in my stinky hands now, is simply delightful. The best part is taking it out and actually looking for the DAC board. It really is just a blip in the cable.


----------



## rehabitat

Tonight I just hooked up my new/old DAC (AudioGD DAC19 MKIII, thanks TownyJ) between my laptop and Arrow/AKG K601.  All I can say is how much I am enjoying this combination.  No need for bass boost yet.
   
  This thread is really quite an enjoyable read, especially for an Arrow owner.  Nary a negative comment or hint of a flame.  Quite educational too.  Keep it up guys.  And thanks MediaOgre for starting it; beats wading through _what is for me_ irrelevant junk on the "Wherever..." thread.
   
  Btw shigzeo, didn't you sell your Arrow?!?  Just curious that this thread still holds your interest, or I am mistaken...anyway I guess that happens a lot on this forum, and why some people have such high post counts 
   
  Stay cool people


----------



## junien

hmmm just received my Arrow in the mail today. So small, so sleek, so black. I love it.
   
  I suppose there won't be any dramatic improvements through burn-in, so im just gonna tuck right into it. no patience after the 6 week wait.
   
  Oh, Robert was a delight to deal with.


----------



## 129207

I love my Arrow but I really wish I had the final case by now. The temporary one I have now has an ugly white sticker explaining all the functions and looks very unfinished.


----------



## shigzeo

Well... I can only say that the DAC USB cable is ... amazing! Looking forward to the Arrow (yep)


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





negakinu said:


> I love my Arrow but I really wish I had the final case by now. The temporary one I have now has an ugly white sticker explaining all the functions and looks very unfinished.


 

 Negakinu,
   
  Post a photo if you can. I didn't know there was another interim case beyond the one with the lack of laser stamped model info and the tiny screw hole flaw. Do you have the HE12, or the prior model with the bass boost max of +9db?


----------



## 129207

Excuse my crappy phone pictures. Couldn't be bothered to whip out the dslr. 
    
   
  It is the current model.  It has the plain black case with paper sticker on both ends.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





negakinu said:


> Excuse my crappy phone pictures. Couldn't be bothered to whip out the dslr.
> 
> 
> It is the current model.  It has the plain black case with paper sticker on both ends.


 

 Wow, ok. Robert must be in perpetual dialing in mode on that case. That's more like a prototype look. My Arrow arrived in February, has printing directly on the end caps but has the minuscule screw hole machining flaw and no "Arrow HE12" that Robert has mentioned will make the "final" case.
   
  All, I emailed Robert last night about the promised replacement case and he wasn't too receptive. I was as polite as possible and sandwiched my inquiry meat between a slice of compliment and praise. He didn't have an update, and asked me, "what's the hurry?" I felt obligated to explain that the case replacement language on his website is vague and ambiguous and it would benefit him to better manage his customer's expectations. I apologize if I overstepped my bounds only to result in pissing off Robert.


----------



## 129207

No need to apologize. it's perfectly normal to want a finished product if you payed several hundred dollars for it.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Wow, ok. Robert must be in perpetual dialing in mode on that case. That's more like a prototype look. My Arrow arrived in February, has printing directly on the end caps but has the minuscule screw hole machining flaw and no "Arrow HE12" that Robert has mentioned will make the "final" case.
> 
> All, I emailed Robert last night about the promised replacement case and he wasn't too receptive. I was as polite as possible and sandwiched my inquiry meat between a slice of compliment and praise. He didn't have an update, and asked me, "what's the hurry?" I felt obligated to explain that the case replacement language on his website is vague and ambiguous and it would benefit him to better manage his customer's expectations. I apologize if I overstepped my bounds only to result in pissing off Robert.


 

 Ehh... I didn't really want to bring it up, since I didn't feel it was too big of a deal, but since we're on the topic...
   
  I've actually been e-mailing back and forth with Robert a bit about a minor problem with my Arrow, where when I have it on near my laptop or my ipod Touch w/ the WiFi enabled, the Arrow emitts this buzzing/clicking noise through my headphones. WIth the WiFi off, things are perfectly normal.
   
  I asked several members on this forum to help me try to replicate the problem, and they don't seem to have the same problem with theirs, so it looks like it's just an isolated case with the amp he sent me.
   
  He stopped responding to my emails for a while, so I sent him another email to follow up to see if there is anything he can do for me, be it an exchange, or perhaps I could send my Arrow to the CA location to have them verify the problem. The only thing he responded to follow up was "[size=small]If you think your amp is faulty I recommend you to wait for the next generation and exchange it then." [/size]
  
  The amp still works and sounds great, but the buzzing/clicking does get annoying, since I do most of my listening through my iPod Touch and Macbook Pro (always with the WiFi enabled, because I'm so damn addicted to Head-Fi.) I was going to order the USB cable, but ended up changing my mind last minute, because then that would mean my Arrow would need to be really close to my macbook, which would casue more buzzing/clicking. Plus, I didn't feel a strong desire to buy more from him after my experiences with emailing him for customer support. I'm one of those people who would rather pay extra and get good customer serive, than pay less and receive none. I'm not saying Robert has bad customer service, but just came off a bit frustrated in his emails. 
   
  I'm very happy with my Arrow. I like it A LOT. And it seems odd to to me to tell a customer to simply spend more money on an upgrade, just to "solve" a problem with something that they're already happy with. I was probably just overreacting, but meh...
   
  To me, it seemed a bit unhelpful and a tad rude, but perhaps he's just overwhelmed/frustrated with keeping up with orders.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





panges said:


> Ehh... I didn't really want to bring it up, since I didn't feel it was too big of a deal, but since we're on the topic...
> 
> I've actually been e-mailing back and forth with Robert a bit about a minor problem with my Arrow, where when I have it on near my laptop or my ipod Touch w/ the WiFi enabled, the Arrow emitts this buzzing/clicking noise through my headphones. WIth the WiFi off, things are perfectly normal.
> 
> ...


 
   
  He offered you a free upgrade when they have new units available, how could he have been any more helpful than that? And where is he asking you to spend more money, I didn't get that. I would agree that you probably overreacting, and I do wonder if the DAC cable might help alleviate your problem, at least when going out of the MBP. Maybe Robert should have delayed the launch of the Arrow until all of his production issues were resolved, and maybe he should have charged an extra $100 for it. I for one am glad he did not, and I think there are many satisfied Arrow users that would agree. Sorry yours is not working perfectly, but have some patience grasshopper and you will end up with a superior unit to mine, which seriously kicks @ss, IMHO.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





grokit said:


> He offered you a free upgrade when they have new units available, how could he have been any more helpful than that? And where is he asking you to spend more money, I didn't get that. I would agree that you probably overreacting, and I do wonder if the DAC cable might help alleviate your problem, at least when going out of the MBP. Maybe Robert should have delayed the launch of the Arrow until all of his production issues were resolved, and maybe he should have charged an extra $100 for it. I for one am glad he did not, and I think there are many satisfied Arrow users that would agree. Sorry yours is not working perfectly, but have some patience grasshopper and you will end up with a superior unit to mine, which seriously kicks @ss, IMHO.


 

 Sorry, I forgot to mention that after he sent me that response, I sent him another email asking "How much would I have to pay for the exchange" (just to make sure, because he didn't really specify whether he would give me the upgrade for free or if I would have to pay,) and he replied "$30 for the upgrade." 
  
  Really, the $30 is not a big deal at all, it was just the principle of having to pay more and upgrade to fix something that should've just been fixed in the first place that bothered me a little. In the end, I will probably upgrade anyways just for the battery and bass boost anyways. lol. I just hate the idea of having to wait a month for it.


----------



## GuyDebord

After owning the iqube, Rx, pico, corda3move and recently the ttvj slim, I can officially say that the Arrow is the best portable that has had the chance to power my EarSonics EM3-Pro's. I am very, very happy with this little guy's sound! amazing that it is at least $100 less than the majority.
   
  I think the others are way over priced.....


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





guydebord said:


> After owning the iqube, Rx, pico, corda3move and recently the ttvj slim, I can officially say that the Arrow is the best portable that has had the chance to power my EarSonics EM3-Pro's. I am very, very happy with this little guy's sound! amazing that it is at least $100 less than the majority.
> 
> I think the others are way over priced.....


 

 I'm in agreement about the sound/dollar value. Great little amp. I'm happy to hear it's dethroned the Pico Slim for you because I was in very early on the preorder, but with the snail's pace that things were getting finalized I decided to go with the Arrow instead. Good move apparently.
   
  Edit- Whoops, you said the Pico, not the Slim. My bad!


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> So, are you saying the Woo WA6 is no better than a portable amp costing 1/3 as much, or that it's only with the HD650 that you don't hear an obvious difference?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, you told me in another thread that the Sophia rectifier might make a difference, but I'm not going to find that out for that insane price. I'm going to sell my WA6 instead, that's the more sane option.
   
  The Arrow indeed does drive the HD650 as well as my WA6 sans the tube harmonics (with a NOS Mullard GZ34 and some RCA power tubes or whatever) - that is what I said, and I stick to my word. Boomana might rotate in her grave, but that's just how it is.
   
  I haven't heard the ED9, but the ED8 is a very, very sad excuse for an overpriced HFI-780 in a fancy housing with no upgraded sound quality at all. So I somehow assume the ED9 is just a normal Ultrasone in a fancy housing as well.


----------



## Anaxilus

I ordered my Arrow more than a month ago and haven't received any updates on status or any potential upgrade to a newer model.  I also have been waiting the same amount of time for my Sflo2 with little help from them either.  How do I feel about that??  
   
  I'M FINE W/ IT!!
   
  I think some people have an unrealistic customer service expectation for products than are not only cheaper but possibly superior to other products offered by multi-million dollar MNC's.  I'm more that happy to deal w/ a smaller boutique manufacturer that offers me better products at better prices.  As long as I get what I pay for, I have no problem getting what I pay for.  Look forward to hearing your product Robert, it is the most universally acclaimed product I have seen on Headfi <$250.  That and the well thought out design and excellent internal construction made it an easy sell.


----------



## Mediaogre

I agree, Anaxilus. Being plugged into a community with boutique-like manufactures is akin to dealing in art. It comes with a certain level of charm that one must endure  and the quality, workmanship, and pride of ownership is worth the artsy quirks.
   
  That said, I believe that _most_ folks are OK with the wait for the amp and have hunkered down to gut it out. If they're not OK, then tough. They knew what they were getting in to before they clicked "buy" and if they didn't, shame on them. What's difficult to endure are poorly managed expectations, lack of communication, and frustration aimed at the customer.  I don't think there's any excuse for handling a paying customer ungracefully no matter how busy you are. If a vendor has overextended himself and lacks the resources or infrastructure to provide timely updates and set expectations somewhat accurately, then hire some help or set up an email distribution group.
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I ordered my Arrow more than a month ago and haven't received any updates on status or any potential upgrade to a newer model.  I also have been waiting the same amount of time for my Sflo2 with little help from them either.  How do I feel about that??
> 
> I'M FINE W/ IT!!
> 
> I think some people have an unrealistic customer service expectation for products than are not only cheaper but possibly superior to other products offered by multi-million dollar MNC's.  I'm more that happy to deal w/ a smaller boutique manufacturer that offers me better products at better prices.  As long as I get what I pay for, I have no problem getting what I pay for.  Look forward to hearing your product Robert, it is the most universally acclaimed product I have seen on Headfi <$250.  That and the well thought out design and excellent internal construction made it an easy sell.


----------



## 129207

amen to that!


----------



## koonhua90

^ Your wait will pay off, once you get the spanking brand new 2nd Gen Arrow Amp!
   
  And Robert has been great at communication too! I wanted to plop the money for the Arrow but I went for another earphone instead.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> The Headphonia Wolfson version? That would be sweet as I'm seriously considering it. Can't wait to see what you think about it.


 

 I've been using it for some time now and it has had better SQ than an Alien DAC (PCM2704) or an M-audio-audiophile USB (at 44.1/16). I figure the only way I'm getting significantly better is to go with something like the Little Dot DAC-1 (two Wolfson WM8740s with balanced output) or a Dac-Magic. I doubt there is anything near the price that will beat it for SQ and ease of use; literally plug and play once USB out is default. I have it set-up with Foobar-> ASIO4ALL -> Headstage line-Dac-> Arrow-> HD650s (or Turbine Pro Coppers). This is keeping me very content SQ-wise while I save for the LD MKVll & Dac1 balanced set-up.


----------



## rehabitat

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> What's difficult to endure are poorly managed expectations, lack of communication, and frustration aimed at the customer.  I don't think there's any excuse for handling a paying customer ungracefully no matter how busy you are.


 
  I am in total agreement with this.  There are plenty of other small vendors who never fail to exemplify professionalism in customer relations.  Unfortunately Robert is somewhat inconsistent in this regard.
   
  I am planning to upgrade my Arrow, but I will wait and choose the right time to order to minimise delays.  I've gone a long time without an amp in the past and have no problem waiting a reasonable length of time for another one, so long as I have a firm lead-time.  The suffering we endure is self-inflicted.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Yeah, you told me in another thread that the Sophia rectifier might make a difference, but I'm not going to find that out for that insane price. I'm going to sell my WA6 instead, that's the more sane option.
> 
> The Arrow indeed does drive the HD650 as well as my WA6 sans the tube harmonics (with a NOS Mullard GZ34 and some RCA power tubes or whatever) - that is what I said, and I stick to my word. Boomana might rotate in her grave, but that's just how it is.
> 
> I haven't heard the ED9, but the ED8 is a very, very sad excuse for an overpriced HFI-780 in a fancy housing with no upgraded sound quality at all. So I somehow assume the ED9 is just a normal Ultrasone in a fancy housing as well.


 
   
  I know this is off topic, but wanted to reply.
   
  The Sophia Princess rectifier after 25 - 80 hours of burn-in was significantly better than my Amperex bugle boy GZ34 or Philips metal base GZ34.  The Sophia was not as forward sounding, the bass was tighter and faster, the mids and highs were more transparent and natural or sweet, and the soundstage widened and deepened nicely.  But for the 1st 20 hours out of the box the Princess sounded bad - muddy and dark.
   
  The Edition 9 were only slightly better than an HFI-780 with jenna labs cable, and if they were $500 headphones I might have kept them, but not for $1300.  My LA7000 kill the Ed 9.  The Ed 9 didn't sound good with my WA6, and I preferred them with a $200 Travagans Red amp.  They just sounded a lot better with SS amps instead of tube amps, and they rocked with my Square Wave XL.


----------



## zappp

The advance payment, the 4-6 week wait and limited communication is part of the deal. Is there anyone waiting for longer than 6 weeks?
   
  He could pre-finance a 1000 units production run, wait for delivery of components, assemble and then offer the product for immediate delivery, being however unsure whether he could actual sell the complete lot (+100%). He could set up a customer service producing charming replies to emails (+20%). Or he could sell through conventional retail stores (+100%). The percentages indicate the resulting price increase for customers. Still, customers would get frustrated in between publication of prototype reviews and availability of product. Perhaps Robert (or his bank) would be unable (or unwilling) at all to pre-finance a production run.


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I've been using it for some time now and it has had better SQ than an Alien DAC (PCM2704) or an M-audio-audiophile USB (at 44.1/16). I figure the only way I'm getting significantly better is to go with something like the Little Dot DAC-1 (two Wolfson WM8740s with balanced output) or a Dac-Magic. I doubt there is anything near the price that will beat it for SQ and ease of use; literally plug and play once USB out is default. I have it set-up with Foobar-> ASIO4ALL -> Headstage line-Dac-> Arrow-> HD650s (or Turbine Pro Coppers). This is keeping me very content SQ-wise while I save for the LD MKVll & Dac1 balanced set-up.


 

 Cool, thanks! that was exactly what I wanted to know  Appreciate the input.


----------



## Mediaogre

This is exactly what I meant a few pages back about "being a fly on the wall" during the production process. You posit what's likely an accurate albeit clinical perspective. However, in the context of this particular scenario, I think you're oversimplifying. Buyers should, by measure of available reports and vendor posted information, be prepared to wait the 4-6 weeks for delivery. I don't think that's the issue. And if it is, people, let's stop complaining about the lead time right now. From what I've read, the legitimate concerns are related to mismanaged expectations, lack of updates and/or response, and outdated ambiguous language on the sales website.
   
  Some users still have the less-than-aesthetically-pleasing prototype-like case and have received no update as to when the replacement case will ship. Nowhere on the Headstage product website does it display the "prototype" case. That's like buying a car with test center bumpers and not knowing when you'll receive the clean, smooth, body-paint colored pieces. The site language suggests an "I'll take care of it soon" posture.
   
  If you're advertising and selling a product, *and hope and expect to be successful*, you must have the necessary infrastructure to support it - even a minimalist and functional infrastructure which includes, yes, customer service. Robert already pays to have the website maintained, and he wrote me that someone who "speaks English" wrote some of the copy. It's his obligation to ensure translation accuracy and maintain site relevancy. Setting up an "info" mailbox and providing monthly progress updates to current customers who opt-in would not warrant, as you suggest, a +20% cost increase. It would, at this point, provide damage control. If it had been in place from the beginning, it would have merely been good customer service.
  Quote: 





zappp said:


> The advance payment, the 4-6 week wait and limited communication is part of the deal. Is there anyone waiting for longer than 6 weeks?
> 
> He could pre-finance a 1000 units production run, wait for delivery of components, assemble and then offer the product for immediate delivery, being however unsure whether he could actual sell the complete lot (+100%). He could set up a customer service producing charming replies to emails (+20%). Or he could sell through conventional retail stores (+100%). The percentages indicate the resulting price increase for customers. Still, customers would get frustrated in between publication of prototype reviews and availability of product. Perhaps Robert (or his bank) would be unable (or unwilling) at all to pre-finance a production run.


----------



## grokit

Has Robert mentioned a possible ship date for the DAC Stick lately?
   
  It's like the guy has a day job or something


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> If you're advertising and selling a product, *and hope and expect to be successful*, you must have the necessary infrastructure to support it - even a minimalist and functional infrastructure which includes, yes, customer service. Robert already pays to have the website maintained, and he wrote me that someone who "speaks English" wrote some of the copy. It's his obligation to ensure translation accuracy and maintain site relevancy. Setting up an "info" mailbox and providing monthly progress updates to current customers who opt-in would not warrant, as you suggest, a +20% cost increase. It would, at this point, provide damage control. If it had been in place from the beginning, it would have merely been good customer service.


 

 Even a Facebook page with irregular updates would be quite helpful.


----------



## Mediaogre

LOL. No update on that yet. He must be as swamped as a pregnant gator. (Whatever that means.)
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Has Robert mentioned a possible ship date for the DAC Stick lately?
> 
> It's like the guy has a day job or something


----------



## MrProggie

No need to pressure him to hard. I'm not interested in receiving a "monday manufacture" which needs to be returned for service later.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> LOL. No update on that yet. He must be as swamped as a pregnant gator. (Whatever that means.)


 


 lol wut?


----------



## Mediaogre

^^ The "day job" comment, mang. I'm not making light of your waiting situation.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> ^^ The "day job" comment, mang. I'm not making light of your waiting situation.


 


 lol. I know what you were refering to. I was just saying "lol wut" to "He must be as swamped as a pregnant gator."


----------



## Mediaogre

^^ CRAP. Ah, the subtleties lost in text. Sorry.


----------



## QRomo

Quote: 





> The advance payment, the 4-6 week wait and limited communication is part of the deal. Is there anyone waiting for longer than 6 weeks?


 
  I'm up to 8 weeks at this point.  I expected a wait going in so I'm not upset, but I'm starting to get restless.


----------



## Hellenback

I think I've said this before but I believe it bears repeating. Robert's English is far from perfect and it likely takes him a great deal of time to read/respond to emails; many of which are likely much the same. i/e how long will it be to..,.etc.
   
  I think the Arrow has been a huge success, which has created an immediate demand for more amps than he can supply based on his initial expectations. You can anticipate success without realizing just how quickly it will happen and how much work will be required almost overnight. He is not a MOT here and sells his amps all over the world. I know this because my first dealings with him were on eBay where bids came in from everywhere. I think many of us on head-fi are used to special treatment like immediate updates from MOTs and other "perks" just not possible if you are not a MOT here and are dealing globally. Maybe he should become one but I don't have any idea what MOT fees are or even if most of his sales come form head-fi. There are other forums in Europe, Japan etc. from where he might be receiving as many or more orders.
  I don't think there is any doubt that he is swamped or that his "day job" is making amplifiers. Once the second gen. Arrow is shipping I think he will likely have more time to catch up with the many things he thought would be happening sooner. If _you_ can't wait, I'm pretty sure the customers he has that know how good his products are can and will. This is all supposition on my part but I'm perfectly willing to email Robert to ask if my reasoning is accurate. I'm also willing to _wait_ for his answer. The last thing I want is to have another good manufacturer start farming out his work in order to keep impatient people happy. Waiting's a bitch but I've learned very little good comes without it.


----------



## Mediaogre

^^ What in the name of Simon Cowell is a MOT? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Oh and we can all go back and forth all day about perception of service. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




(I finally got to use that silly emoticon!) But if you're going to sell globally, you'd better be ready to support it.


----------



## wuwhere

My Arrow took 8 weeks to get delivered to my doorstep. And that was probably just before he received a deluge of orders.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote:  





> But if you're going to sell globally, you'd better be ready to support it.


 

 Lol, Sprint and HTC just ran out of Evo 4's again.  Apple will do the same once the idiotPhone 4 starts shipping.


----------



## grokit

I just e-mailed Robert earlier today regarding a past purchase for a Penguin/Headphonia DAC Cable that I ordered at the beginning of the year, wanting to verify whether or not it was the current version, and he got back to me in a matter of hours. I would say his English is completely satisfactory if not perfect, and that perhaps some questions are easier to answer than others.


----------



## rehabitat

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> ^^ What in the name of Simon Cowell is a MOT?


 
  X2

  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> perhaps some questions are easier to answer than others.


 
  you got it


----------



## koonhua90

MOT = Member of trade


----------



## Kees

MOT = Member Of (the) Trade. 
  They have a special status here regarding what they can and cannot post.


----------



## rehabitat

oh, an M-O-T
   
  tanks


----------



## Mediaogre

What's up Anaxilus? Haven't heard from you in a while. That's actually a good point and a fine perspective to throw out there. I hear ya. I wasn't talking about _demand_ support though. I was talking about post sales support.
  
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Lol, Sprint and HTC just ran out of Evo 4's again.  Apple will do the same once the idiotPhone 4 starts shipping.


----------



## Mediaogre

@ koonhua90 and kees, thanks guys. I'll have to revisit the n00b glossary. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  @ rehabitat, thanks for havin' my back.


----------



## slickooz

I was wondering why the pico slim is so popular compared to the arrow? Is it better? It doesnt have as much option as the arrow provides.


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> I was wondering why the pico slim is so popular compared to the arrow? Is it better? It doesnt have as much option as the arrow provides.


 

 I should get a Pico Slim for a review soon. I will certainly have to compare it to the Arrow, since there's nothing better in the portable amp market than the Arrow I've tested so far.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> I should get a Pico Slim for a review soon. I will certainly have to compare it to the Arrow, since* there's nothing better in the portable amp market than the Arrow* *I've tested so far*.


 

 LOL dfkt, you certainly know how to make an entrance.  Hope you're right, waiting for mine to pair w/ the LO of an SFlo2.


----------



## keein

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> LOL dfkt, you certainly know how to make an entrance.  Hope you're right, waiting for mine to pair w/ the LO of an SFlo2.


 
  I think it is a great combo, I use the s:flo with the Arrow and JH 13. mhmmmm great


----------



## dfkt

You should get a player that doesn't completely suck.


----------



## keein

I like it.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> I was wondering why the pico slim is so popular compared to the arrow? Is it better? It doesnt have as much option as the arrow provides.


 

 There also seems to be a lot more Pico Slims for sale used, if that means anything or not...


----------



## slickooz

Great review on the Arrow dfkt! I really want an Arrow now. Just waiting on my custom tf-10 to come before I look into any portable amps.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> You should get a player that doesn't completely suck.


 

 And which player do you believe doesn't completely suck?  I know you don't like the Hifiman and wouldn't pay for that anyway.  The Sansas sound thin compared to my 2g iPod nano.  The Cowons don't appear to be better SQ DAP's than the Sansa's or Sflo2 from what I have read.  Sony X, don't know.  Your recommendation then?  I assume your dislike of the Sflo2 is not related to firmware or gui issues since I could give a rats ass about.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> 1) The Sansas sound thin compared to my 2g iPod nano
> 
> 2) I assume your dislike of the Sflo2 is not related to firmware or gui issues


 

 1) Asking for trouble!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  2) Perhaps a mistaken assumption, but a good question...


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





grokit said:


> 1) Asking for trouble!


 

 Lol, I've already lived through that flame war on my own thread.


----------



## Mediaogre

Y'all are cracking me up.
   
  @ Anaxilus, you poor thing, I bet you have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But if it works for you, it works. Personally, I steered a wide berth of the menstrual flo because of the controversy factor. Oh, and what Grokit said about your iPod vs Sansa CRAZINESS. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  About the Pico Slim, I thought that thing was still unobtainium which is why I turned my interest toward the Arrow and, briefly, some of Ray Samuels' gear.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Y'all are cracking me up.
> 
> @ Anaxilus, you poor thing, I bet you have.
> 
> ...


 

 Poor thing, LOL!  Bad Ogre!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Waiting on my Arrow as well, really looking forward to it.  My MD's need more powa!


----------



## Mediaogre

Just you wait - it'll drive those MDs clean and powerful. You've got a lot to look forward to.
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Poor thing, LOL!  Bad Ogre!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rehabitat

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Personally, I steered a wide berth of the menstrual flo because of the controversy factor.


 

 Tone gentlemen , tone!!!


----------



## Mediaogre

We playin', Bro. We playin'. (I do like to flirt with the "sensors" though.)
  
  Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> Tone gentlemen , tone!!!


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> We playin', Bro. We playin'. (I do like to flirt with the "sensors" though.)


 

 You aren't a real Headfier till you've been banned.


----------



## PANGES

I forgot to mention here that I've actually been using the Arrow with my Audio-Technica ATH-W1000X lately, and it seems to work pretty well with them; however, I've found myself playing with the Imp settings a lot to try to tame some of the forwardness. 
   
  Don't get me wrong, the forwardness and aggressiveness of the W1000X are amazing, and it's one of the big selling points for me, but after 6-8 hours of straight listening, my ears start getting fatigued and I begin to lower the volume and bass, as well as play with the imp settings. Doing so seems to really help alot when I don't have the willpower to take them off. =/


----------



## slickooz

So if I order one now, will I receive the new updated Arrow? with all the new features? And would the Fiio LOD work? Or do I need a better LOD?


----------



## triodesteve

I picked up a used Arrow this week hoping it would be everything I've read about. Awesome form factor, although at my age, I need glasses to read the small print. Photos really don't show how small this thing is...really amazing. About as adjustable as any amp could be I guess. Did I mention it was small?
  The only problem is that it doesn't match well with my Triple 10's (Fisher remolds). I think I've tried all the combos and it just doesn't sounds as good as my Mseed Spirit. I know what you are all thinking..."old man shut up...everyone else loves this amp...you can't hear any more!"
  I learned a long time ago that the most important thing in this game is synergy. Two components that seem ho-hum on their own or matched with other components can be magic when matched together.
  I lucked out on the Mseed Spirit/Trip10 combo. Bottom line is that when I listen to this set up (with UE custom cable) I can't stop listening...music has drive and excitement (not a fake forward presence that some high end stuff has). With the Arrow, my foot stopped moving, and I became bored with the music. This is exactly the same issue I had when I experimented with different cabling for the Fisher Trip10's...I've tried 3 different cables and the higher the measured resistance, the deader the sound. 
  I'm not here to bury the Arrow...it's an awesome display of modern technology and created by someone who obviously thought a lot about it...
  it just doesn't love my iem's. bummer
  Steve


----------



## LintHart

^^^^ lucky there is a 30 day satisfaction guarantee  or feel free to pass it along to someone like me who can't stand the wait anymore 



 Shame it hasn't been 100% all there for you mate


----------



## borrego

Quote: 





> it just doesn't love my iem's. bummer  Steve


 
   
  You may want to try the different imp/gain combo with the Arrow to see if you would find a sound you would like. Normally adding impedance will cut the treble for other amps. However, the Arrow got its internal voltage booster when it senses impedance increases so the sound will change accordingly.
   
  I was in a similar situation like yours. Except I sold my newly acquired TF10 after using for 2 weeks and replaced with a pair of RE0.


----------



## Mediaogre

@ borrego and triodesteve - It sounds like triodesteve has tried a wide range of settings, but borrego made a good point. I didn't find the happy spot for my Shure SE530s (also triple armatures) for a few weeks. Finally, I settled on this for most music:
   
*BASS I, CROSS 0, GAIN II, IMP 0* << No hiss, and decent balance from highs to lows
   
  Sorry if it doesn't work out though.


----------



## wuwhere

I have a UE10 Pro, I set it at IMP = 0, GAIN = I, BASS = 0, it sounds really good.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





triodesteve said:


> I picked up a used Arrow this week hoping it would be everything I've read about. Awesome form factor, although at my age, I need glasses to read the small print. Photos really don't show how small this thing is...really amazing. About as adjustable as any amp could be I guess. Did I mention it was small?
> The only problem is that it doesn't match well with my Triple 10's (Fisher remolds). I think I've tried all the combos and it just doesn't sounds as good as my Mseed Spirit. I know what you are all thinking..."old man shut up...everyone else loves this amp...you can't hear any more!"
> I learned a long time ago that the most important thing in this game is synergy. Two components that seem ho-hum on their own or matched with other components can be magic when matched together


 
   
  Steve, would you mind elaborating a bit on what the difference is with the Tf10 to you with the two amps? I am not really digging my newish Tf-11 customs from my Arrow so much, while the eQ-7 is really (really) good from it. Maybe like you said its a synergy thing with the Tripl-fi and the Arrow, and I need to try another source or two with the Tf-11s. The dynamics and depth are there, but the clarity and musicality seems lacking somewhat. Love the Arrow with everything else I've tried (except real low impedance full-sizers) though.


----------



## slickooz

So the Arrow doesnt work well with the TF-10? Now I'm a little hesistent in buying one. I hate the wait also, just waiting for my custom to come back.Can someone here with TF-10 and Arrow chime in here and help us?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> So the Arrow doesnt work well with the TF-10? Now I'm a little hesistent in buying one. I hate the wait also, just waiting for my custom to come back.Can someone here with TF-10 and Arrow chime in here and help us?


 
   
  For myself I am not sure if it's the Arrow's synergy with the Tfs, or if I just don't like the Tfs period. I tried them out of my Mini-i and they failed to impress me there too, so the Arrow's synergy with the Tfs may not be the problem. I do like the Mini-i's headphone section quite a bit in general.
   
  It may be that triodesteve's Mseed Spirit has exceptionally _good _synergy with the Tfs.


----------



## Bennyboy71

Anyone care to share their Arrow settings when coupled to the Earsonic SM3?


----------



## triodesteve

I'm hearing exactly the same thing...constipated is the word that keeps coming to mind. The sound lacks drive and there seems to be a fine blanket over the music. no emotional involvement at all. 
  I just plugged my old Sony V6's into the Arrow and now I see what people are talking about. Every adjustment is clearly audible...it took about 5 minutes to dial the amp to the phones.....musicality is back...really fun and enjoyable. 20 minutes ago, I was planning on selling the Arrow...now I'm thinking maybe I need a good set of full size cans..damn
   
  BTW, a few weeks ago I did an a-b with the mSeed Spirit and the ALO Rx. The ALO was maybe a little better on the bottom end compared to the mSeed...not enough for me to justify to cost difference, but it did sound really good with my tf10's
  Steve

  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Steve, would you mind elaborating a bit on what the difference is with the Tf10 to you with the two amps? I am not really digging my newish Tf-11 customs from my Arrow so much, while the eQ-7 is really (really) good from it. Maybe like you said its a synergy thing with the Tripl-fi and the Arrow, and I need to try another source or two with the Tf-11s. The dynamics and depth are there, but the clarity and musicality seems lacking somewhat. Love the Arrow with everything else I've tried (except real low impedance full-sizers) though.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





triodesteve said:


> I'm hearing exactly the same thing...constipated is the word that keeps coming to mind. The sound lacks drive and there seems to be a fine blanket over the music. no emotional involvement at all.
> I just plugged my old Sony V6's into the Arrow and now I see what people are talking about. Every adjustment is clearly audible...it took about 5 minutes to dial the amp to the phones.....musicality is back...really fun and enjoyable. 20 minutes ago, I was planning on selling the Arrow...now I'm thinking maybe I need a good set of full size cans..damn
> 
> BTW, a few weeks ago I did an a-b with the mSeed Spirit and the ALO Rx. The ALO was maybe a little better on the bottom end compared to the mSeed...not enough for me to justify to cost difference, but it did sound really good with my tf10's
> Steve


 

 The same thing happened to me when I first got my Arrow. I thought it was veiled and lacked drive. I kept burning it in overnight for a few days, changing each settings at a time. It improved significantly after I did this. One thing about the Arrow that impresses me is its very low distortion.


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





bennyboy71 said:


> Anyone care to share their Arrow settings when coupled to the Earsonic SM3?


 

 I'm using mine with 0 crossfeed, 0 impedance, gain 2, and a tad of bass kick thrown in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  The nice clean bass bump of the Arrow mixes great with the already taut low end of the SM3's.


----------



## wuwhere

One other thing that I did was I let the battery completely drain 4 times before I recharge.
  This also helps in the break-in as the battery is also a part of the power supply chain.


----------



## Bennyboy71

Great, thanks for the info,  I'm already mirroring your settings exactly, except keeping the bass boost at zero, so thats cool.

  
  Quote: 





cn11 said:


> I'm using mine with 0 crossfeed, 0 impedance, gain 2, and a tad of bass kick thrown in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## LintHart

hey guys,
   
  just wondering if someone can post a pic of two of the arrow with a viablue 3.5mm inserted so i can see how much thicker the viablue is?
   
  perhaps if anyone is rocking with two viablues so i can see how much room is left to use the volume control?
   
  how thick are the power strips that come with it? has anyone tried using the strips to mount the amp and use viablue? like would it create enough of a gap between the two items
  to counteract the extra thickness of the viablue?
   
   
  thanks


----------



## borrego

The case of the Arrow is 9mm thick. It is 26mm between the line in and the phone out 3.5mm jacks.
   
  The supplied velcro dot tapes should provide enough clerance betwen the Arrow and DAP. On the underside of the Arrow, you should tape 4 rubber foot on it to put less stress on the 3.5 mm jacks when it is put on table.


----------



## LintHart

Quote: 





borrego said:


> The case of the Arrow is 9mm thick. It is 26mm between the line in and the phone out 3.5mm jacks.
> 
> The supplied velcro dot tapes should provide enough clerance betwen the Arrow and DAP. On the underside of the Arrow, you should tape 4 rubber foot on it to put less stress on the 3.5 mm jacks when it is put on table.


 

 thats a great start thanks mate
   
  my plan is, that because the iphone 4 is flat, i'll buy an acrylic case to mount it onto so i dont need to use elastic bands etc. and when i want to use the amp i just need to clip the phone into the case  im only planning to use the arrow with the iphone if the sound is to my liking


----------



## LintHart

oh and while we're at it, can anyone comment on the synergy between the JH16's and the arrow? (and its bass boost?)
   
  thanks guys i really appreciate it


----------



## rehabitat

Have a look at Mediaogres albums, he has photos of his Arrow connected to a Viablue diy IC
  
  Quote: 





linthart said:


> hey guys,
> 
> just wondering if someone can post a pic of two of the arrow with a viablue 3.5mm inserted so i can see how much thicker the viablue is?


----------



## LintHart

rehabitat said:


> Have a look at Mediaogres albums, he has photos of his Arrow connected to a Viablue diy IC







 Oh so close yet so far  those great shots are just on the wrong angles. Though an excellent direction thank you. I'll give him a buzz and see if he can get me the shots I'm looking for if nothing else pops up. 

 Thanks rehabitat


----------



## VaSpn

Man the lines are sexy. Anyone know if I can find them locally (Melbourne... hopefully try them out before buying from Headphonia maybe).


----------



## LintHart

vaspn said:


> Man the lines are sexy. Anyone know if I can find them locally (Melbourne... hopefully try them out before buying from Headphonia maybe).







 If you find a member to try with let me know as I'd also love to try one. Keep in mind that the new model will be improved especially in bass department. 

 If all else fails I'm just waiting a moment longer as the dollar is getting stronger (.86c today ) before I place my order and it you can wait that long - likely 4-6 weeks I'm thinking, then you can come have a crack at mine. I live close to the city. Or just order and 30 can return it if you don't like it. Wouldn't cost the earth to ship back to Germany as it wouldn't weigh anything really


----------



## MusicalChillies

Sorry guys, forgive me for not looking through each post.
  Would this work pretty well with the mtpc`s?
   
  Once again sorry.


----------



## dfkt

It works with basically any phone.


----------



## MusicalChillies

Edit. Bought Ibasso mod from fs forum.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> It works with basically any phone.


 

 I would change that to it works _great_ with _most_ phones. It does stumble a bit if you try and max out low impedance full-sizers, like the time I tried it with my K701 and HE-5. It sounds great at lower volumes with those however, and works without limitation with higher impedance full-size cans, and anything smaller or portable for sure.


----------



## tuckers

What is the current wait time to get an Arrow now?  
   
  I'm thinking of this or the Rx to take my Audeze LCD-2 on the road.  Anyone know which would be better?


----------



## dizzyraider

From the website, it seems the next shipment is in July.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> Keep in mind that the new model will be improved especially in bass department


 
  As far as I know it isn't so much an improvement as an increase on the 2nd boost from 9db to 12 db. Personally I'm happy with 9db (when more than boost 1 is needed).


----------



## VaSpn

Quote: 





linthart said:


> If you find a member to try with let me know as I'd also love to try one. Keep in mind that the new model will be improved especially in bass department.
> 
> If all else fails I'm just waiting a moment longer as the dollar is getting stronger (.86c today ) before I place my order and it you can wait that long - likely 4-6 weeks I'm thinking, then you can come have a crack at mine. I live close to the city. Or just order and 30 can return it if you don't like it. Wouldn't cost the earth to ship back to Germany as it wouldn't weigh anything really


 

 That's true. Wouldn't cost much to ship back. Will be out of the country for about a month though so probably when I'll get back I'll look into trying you suggestion (order and try). PM me if you do get it... I live nearby the CBD too. Cheers.


----------



## LintHart

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> As far as I know it isn't so much an improvement as an increase on the 2nd boost from 9db to 12 db. Personally I'm happy with 9db (when more than boost 1 is needed).


 

 ah no, the 12db boost was part of the newer wave of the v1 model. the new v2 has a little something extra


----------



## Anaxilus

Where are people getting their info on the new Arrow?  I don't see anything other than a few random remarks posted here and there?  If any kind soul would care to share a link if one exists.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Where are people getting their info on the new Arrow?  I don't see anything other than a few random remarks posted here and there?  If any kind soul would care to share a link if one exists.


 
   
  IIRC, they got the information directly from Robert via email.


----------



## LintHart

Quote: 





panges said:


> IIRC, they got the information directly from Robert via email.


 

 yep, if you want to know something, always best to go straight to the source.
  i do wish robert would update his page though with all the new info cause there truly are some great changes happening.


----------



## Mediaogre

FYI - LintHart was curious and asked a good question about fat mini plugs with the Arrow. I've posted a couple new photos of my ViaBlues and the Arrow in an album on my profile page.
   
  Note: unless you have a chunky IC, a chunky headphone plug, _and_ you _must_ use the HO and input on the same end of the amp, access to the volume will not be this tight. I took this photo for LintHart as a what if scenario. The Arrow has inputs on both ends of the amp so you should be able to orient your gear for an acceptable configuration.


----------



## EraserXIV

has anyone been able to get a hold of Robert at Headphonia? I emailed him twice, over the course of May and June, regarding my order of the USB DAC Stick, but he has still not replied.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





eraserxiv said:


> has anyone been able to get a hold of Robert at Headphonia? I emailed him twice, over the course of May and June, regarding my order of the USB DAC Stick, but he has still not replied.


 

 Same boat on my Arrow.


----------



## rehabitat

^^ There is another thread for these types of questions. Please use it:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/461344/oh-where-oh-where-has-my-slim-arrow-gone-oh-where-oh-where-can-he-be/600


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> ^^ There is another thread for these types of questions. Please use it:
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/461344/oh-where-oh-where-has-my-slim-arrow-gone-oh-where-oh-where-can-he-be/600


 
   
   
  NVM, I dont want to encourage a thread Nazi.
   
  post deleted.


----------



## rehabitat

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> NVM, I dont want to encourage a thread Nazi.
> 
> post deleted.


 

 Dude, there is no call for nastiness on this forum.


----------



## Mediaogre

^^ Rebabitat is right... about the off-topic and nastiness comment. Don't take it personally. If we didn't have folks helping us stay on topic, we'd be talking about random crap all day.
   
  In that spirit _,I_ forgot which stinkin' thread I was in and perpetuated a conversation in the "where oh where" thread. The topic's an interesting one though and deserves repeating here. Borrego detected a slight imbalance at extreme low levels on the Arrow. I personally don't think it's a big deal or even really a deal at all. I was able to reproduce the imbalance, but I understand I'd have to pay a metric s*** ton more money to avoid this sort of component level imperfection. At my listening levels and with my ears being imperfect anyway... meh. It's totally nit picking, but it's there. You be the judge. Copy and pasted response and quote below... 
   
   
   

   
  Quote: 





> *Posted by me*: I just noticed what you're talking about. That's some ear you've got. I just don't think I ever bothered to listen that low. I mean, you have to go really _really_ low to detect the left channel firing first. Anyway, good ear and catch. I don't notice it at reasonable listening levels
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

  Quote: 





borrego said:


> Now I have owned 3 portable devices (Arrow, Fanmusic Mk2, and S:flo2) with potentialmeters as volume controls. All of them goes unbalance to different degrees to the left channel (i.e. right channel goes silent and left channel still got sound). Can someone tell me it is the same for all potentialmeters?


----------



## Mediaogre

It bears repeating that this thread is *not the waiting room for crying about the Arrow lead time or alleged unresponsiveness from Robert regarding shipping dates.* There's a thread *here* by Shauntell47 dedicated to that pastime.


----------



## cn11

I know I'll be one of the first to send in my current Arrow 12HE as a trade in for the updated unit with better bass boost. Very much looking forward to that one.


----------



## Mediaogre

Dude, which head gear are going to use that much boost with?! (I understand there are other benefits to be had.) You sir, _must_ be a Bass Head. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





cn11 said:


> I know I'll be one of the first to send in my current Arrow 12HE as a trade in for the updated unit with better bass boost. Very much looking forward to that one.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> I know I'll be one of the first to send in my current Arrow 12HE as a trade in for the updated unit with better bass boost. Very much looking forward to that one.


 

 LOL, the SM3 not giving you enough bass??  I have no idea which Arrow I'll get yet, still waiting.  Woops, is this the right thread?


----------



## LintHart

mediaogre said:


> Dude, which head gear are going to use that much boost with?!







 With my JH16's  (it's y I got them  )


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> LOL, the SM3 not giving you enough bass??  I have no idea which Arrow I'll get yet, still waiting.  Woops, is this the right thread?


 

 I'll always take a little more if it's well controlled! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The SM3 does bass very well, especially for a balanced armature, but I'm rather spoiled by recent dynamic driver IEMs such as the FX700 and DDM. So if the upcoming Arrow can improve on things in the low end, all the better.


----------



## Mediaogre

Hellz, yeah. Definitely let us know your bass thoughts with your sic IEM collection once you've upgraded.
  
  Quote: 





cn11 said:


> I'll always take a little more if it's well controlled!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## F1KERS

Hi, Medioogre,
   
  Thanks for your detailed and comprehensive review. Enjoyed the readup. Currently I own a pair of Monster Miles Davis Dynamic earphones. May I know if the Arrow amp complements perfectly well with it or are other amps such as iQube v1 or iBasso D4 more superior and better? I like Jazz music with balanced sound. Love the idea of iBasso D4's capability of rollable OPamps as I personally would like to try my earphones with OPA637SM. Not sure if the Arrow is OPamp upgradeable or not. Kindly advice.
   
  Thank You!


----------



## Mediaogre

Hey F1KERS, sorry for the late response. I've been away for a bit.
   
  I can't speak to the Monster Miles, but so far most people have been successfully and enjoyably paired all levels of sensitive and not-so-sensitive IEMs with the Arrow. I'd like to link you to dfkt's of AnythingButipod comprehensive review which includes _some_ comparison information. My "review" is more of an editorial flailing as opposed to real review. 
   
  Dfkt has listened to and reviewed more audio devices than there are teeny-boppers at a Miley Cyrus concert, and this review, as usual, is a good read.
  
  Quote: 





f1kers said:


> Hi, Medioogre,
> 
> Thanks for your detailed and comprehensive review. Enjoyed the readup. Currently I own a pair of Monster Miles Davis Dynamic earphones. May I know if the Arrow amp complements perfectly well with it or are other amps such as iQube v1 or iBasso D4 more superior and better? I like Jazz music with balanced sound. Love the idea of iBasso D4's capability of rollable OPamps as I personally would like to try my earphones with OPA637SM. Not sure if the Arrow is OPamp upgradeable or not. Kindly advice.
> 
> Thank You!


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> Not sure if the Arrow is OPamp upgradeable or not.


 
  Nope, it's an AD8397 (pretty sure that's the number) which is what many of the better portables use. It is a great op-amp but apparently needs to be implemented carefully to be at it's best. I've tried a lot of portable amps and can't say I've heard any under $400->$500 that sound as good, let alone better than the Arrow. I'm using HD650s and Turbine Pro Coppers with the Arrow and am very happy. I believe the Coppers are very close in response to the MDs so I think the Arrow should be a great match.


----------



## LintHart

hellenback said:


> I've tried a lot of portable amps and can't say I've heard any under $400->$500 that sound as good, let alone better than the Arrow.







 Have you compared it to the protector balanced? Or are we talking apples and oranges?


----------



## Oomingmak

Have the newer models begun shipping yet?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





linthart said:


> Have you compared it to the protector balanced? Or are we talking apples and oranges?


 
  I'd say apples and oranges as balanced has an advantage out of the gate...but no I haven't heard the balanced protector. With all the other upgrades required when going truly balanced like cables, source etc. it would be tough to come in under $500 anyway.
  I _am_ saving for a balanced set-up (not portable) at the moment because it seems to me to be the only way to get the best I've heard out of the HD650s. Until then I'll get by with the Arrow and an older desktop I've had for awhile. I don't think I'd spend that kind of money on portable gear, but to each his own.


----------



## jfindon

So I'm gonna go ahead and assume this would beat the pants off the LittleDot MK1+ I currently have?


----------



## s1rrah

Just sent in payment for one of the new batch; hopefully it will ship by the end of August; I'll be pairing it with the line out on an S:flo 2. Will post thoughts/impressions once I get it.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> Just sent in payment for one of the new batch; hopefully it will ship by the end of August; I'll be pairing it with the line out on an S:flo 2. Will post thoughts/impressions once I get it.


 

 Ditto, my Sflo2 LO is crying for the Arrow right now!


----------



## njackson

While I'm still excited about the Arrow, I have to say I'm a bit annoyed that the eta I got for mine was about 6 weeks, when it says in bright red on the page for the arrow, "New orders will ship in July 2010".  That's nearly twice as long.  It's not that 6 weeks is even too long really, just that the site pretty clearly says otherwise.
   
  Oh well, I guess that means it might show up around my birthday then.  Happy birthday to me.


----------



## MrProggie

I read about people here who ordered their slim Arrow in the beginning of May. They have been told to expect to receive it in the end of July.
  I ordered mine June 1st, so I will probably not receive the Arrow until end of August.


----------



## gameboy115

I got S:FLO2 as source and e-q7 as my IEM and later plan to get UM3x/ SM3, will arrow become a good match to either one?
   
  What change would it be ?


----------



## 129207

I really believe there wouldn't be a very noticeable difference in sound quality. The Sflo2 is excellent and the EQ7 & SM3 are both amazing and pretty efficient. The Arrow gives you great bassboost and crossfeed/impedance options though. If you choose to use the Arrow with the SM3 you could give it some more body and bass impact. Don't expect a night and day difference. 
   
  The Arrow is a great amp though and pretty much the perfect portable. If you'd ever want to use a headphone or inefficient IEM/earbud on your Sflo2 it will definitely come in handy.


----------



## jfindon

Quote: 





jfindon said:


> So I'm gonna go ahead and assume this would beat the pants off the LittleDot MK1+ I currently have?


 

 Eh?


----------



## Hellenback

I haven't heard the LD MK1+ but do notice them for sale quite often. The options/versatility of the Arrow certainly seem a major advantage over the LD as well as it's portability/smaller size and higher (auto)voltage capability I can't speak to the sound of the LD but it has always seemed like an intermediate solution for most whereas IMO the Arrow is close to the final word in ultra-portable (un-balanced) amplification at the moment.


----------



## neob

New Headstage Arrow 12HE 2G has been announced. Robert seems to throw the power switch and RAISE THE PRICE...


----------



## MrProggie

Quote: 





neob said:


> New Headstage Arrow 12HE 2G has been announced. Robert seems to throw the power switch and RAISE THE PRICE...


 

 LOL. He doesn't seem to be able finish a production run of one model before releasing another model. But seriously I think he just renamed the second version of 12HE to separate it from the first version in name. The reason he raised the price is probably due to demand. It's called capitalism.


----------



## wuwhere

If he decides to have a reasonably price trade-in with the 1G, I might go for it. For the price it is still a really good deal, IMO. Having said that, the new iBasso Toucan for $229 with SE/balanced in and out is a better deal without an indefinite wait time.


----------



## slickooz

He raised the price to +15. What the difference?


----------



## LintHart

Wow so glad I placed my order before the price went up


----------



## EraserXIV

he has time to raise prices but no time to answer my e-mails? i ordered a dac stick 5 months ago and i have been inquiring about it and he has still not replied to me.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





eraserxiv said:


> he has time to raise prices but no time to answer my e-mails? i ordered a dac stick 5 months ago and i have been inquiring about it and he has still not replied to me.


 

 While I like to defend Robert that is pretty inexcusable, he should definitely have responded at some point.


----------



## EraserXIV

I completely understand that he's a one man operation and as such I approached this matter with tons of patience. However, recently I began laying it all out on the table and looking at the timespan, it's reaching 6 months, _*half a year, *_which is starting to become a bit inexcusable IMO. T
   
  The fact that I reach out to him for an explanation but am blatantly ignored is what irks me. If he was incapacitated to the point that he was not able to get to the computer I would understand, but *he obviously has access* to a computer because he just raised the prices!


----------



## Mediaogre

This is ridiculous. Like Grokit, I tend to bias toward supporting Robert, but half a year? Crap on rye.
   
  I'll say this again:* if you're going to go global and advertise global, be ready to support on a global level.*
   
  I understand he's been inundated with requests for updates. I can only guess that his excuse for not responding is a weak support system and undocumented communications. If that's the case, it's no excuse.
   
  I'll also say this again: *if you're paying someone to manage your web presence (and he's told me as much) then take the freakin' time to post timely updates if you're not going to bother with email updates via distribution list. (Or god forbid, answer a paying customer's What.)*
   
  The ironic thing is he's so overextended now that not only is it hurting the people who have already paid, but if potential customers catch wind of this thread, that overextension's going to affect future sales. It won't matter how badass your product it. No one will buy it anymore.
  
  Quote: 





eraserxiv said:


> I completely understand that he's a one man operation and as such I approached this matter with tons of patience. However, recently I began laying it all out on the table and looking at the timespan, it's reaching 6 months, _*half a year, *_which is starting to become a bit inexcusable IMO. T
> 
> The fact that I reach out to him for an explanation but am blatantly ignored is what irks me. If he was incapacitated to the point that he was not able to get to the computer I would understand, but *he obviously has access* to a computer because he just raised the prices!


----------



## usf09

It's called high-efficiency now...does that mean extended battery life? It looks like the bass boost, no power switch, and high efficiency are the differences?


----------



## Blackwheel

Quote: 





usf09 said:


> It's called high-efficiency now...does that mean extended battery life? It looks like the bass boost, no power switch, and high efficiency are the differences?


 

 I think it was called High Efficiency before too... right?


----------



## usf09

Oh, no clue...the last time I looked at the Arrow was a month or two ago, I don't remember exactly what was listed...


----------



## MrProggie

On Anythingbutipod there' a review of Arrow 12HE from April 2010. That's probably the first version. Got a lot of photos.


----------



## Mediaogre

Correct, Blackwheel. The HE speaks to the Arrow's variable voltage output feature.
  Quote: 





blackwheel said:


> I think it was called High Efficiency before too... right?


----------



## dfkt

"HE" translates roughly to "5-12V".


----------



## grokit

Well there was a version of the Arrow that was non-HE. So now there has been three versions: the non-HE, the HE, and this new balanced model.


----------



## Hellenback

The new model (Arrow gen 2) isn't balanced it just has a couple of new features. The early non-HE model didn't have the adjustable voltage.
   
  Regarding the wait time; it's understandable that people are getting impatient after waiting so long. I jumped on this early into the initial release so I didn't wait long at all. Now that so many people want the amp I really think he's just not had the time to keep up with projected plans and is likely feeling somewhat overwhelmed. We all handle things differently and he might just be thinking that his time is best spent taking care of the Arrow orders before he finishes and releases the Dac-stick. I don't think there is any ill will or dishonesty involved, just lack of manpower. Personally, I won't order something not already in production as it seems to always take longer than anticipated no matter who it is.
   
  I'm using the line-dac with the Arrow and find it a great combination. (I _thought_ I read somewhere in this thread that someone was sent the line-dac to use while waiting for the dac-stick but it's 50 pages now and I have no idea where it was said or by who.)


----------



## wuwhere

^^ "line-DAC", do you mean the USB cable DAC?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> ^^ "line-DAC", do you mean the USB cable DAC?


 

 Sounds like.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Sounds like.


 

 Excellent DAC, smooth and warm.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> ^^ "line-DAC", do you mean the USB cable DAC?


 

 Yes.


----------



## Mediaogre

@ Hellenback. I greatly respect your opinion, Hellenback. However, at this point, whether the _ill_ was _willed_ is irrelevant. Damage is often done with the best intentions in mind. Robert's had a customer's money for six months and won't give him an update. Damage: done.
   
  I know this isn't a bitch thread so I'll stop now.


----------



## Hellenback

@ Mediaogre
   
  I respect your opinion as well and am sorry to see you make what appears to be such an abrupt about-face from your usual understanding of Robert's situation as a one man operation.
  All this bitching about lack of communication etc. by Robert/Headphonia should be in the other "Where oh where..." thread so this will be my last post here on this topic.
   
  It *is* too bad that Robert can't seem to keep up with communication but from what I've read the person complaining has not asked for a refund. Anyone who has commented on doing so (in this thread or another) seems to have received one promptly so I'm curious as to why he is complaining so much when it doesn't appear he has asked for his money back. There are two sides to every story and I don't know Robert's. He has likely been somewhat negligent in his responses but everyone chiming in (myself included) doesn't help matters. I have thought about what might help and am writing an email to Robert about it. I will keep people posted on any response I _might_ receive.

 For now I'll just say I think sometimes success can be difficult to handle as it brings it's own set of problems and obligations. It appears to me that Robert is having to deal with too much too soon and isn't quite yet prepared to do so efficiently.
  I would hate to see all this negativity derail another great amp maker (i.e Xenos, Larroco, Xin?) before he has an opportunity to "get all his ducks in a row".

 For my own part, I'm sorry my opinion/comment about his intentions made room for more griping in what is supposed to be an impressions thread. I simply meant I doubted he was ignoring the OP on purpose or with ill intent and that he would get his dac-stick as soon as they're released.
   
  @ EraserXVII
   
  If you are that put off by not receiving a product that AFAIK hasn't been released yet (after receiving your Arrow in what appears to be a timely manner) have you asked for a refund for that part of the order?


----------



## Hellenback

It appears Shauntell47 has already emailed him so I will hold off until I hear what's comes of this inquiry.
   
   
  Quote: @Shauntell47


> Guys, I sent Robert an e-mail yesterday, informing him about the communication problems and he answered me today, telling me he'd send out an e-mail shortly to everyone about the new amplifier.
> 
> 
> So we should all know more in a few days....


----------



## grokit

I agree that if I was not getting a response for that long, I would have already asked for a refund


----------



## Mediaogre

Good points all, Hellenback. And you're absolutely right about the nature/spirit of this thread. I sometimes forget where I am and suffer from thread smear. (Is that a term?)
   
  I empathize with Eraser as to why he may not have asked for a refund. When you set your sites on something, it's hard to give up on it, especially, in this digital age where many variables can cloud (pardon the IT pun) communication. I believe it's Robert's obligation to provide an update and I believe Eraser is entitled (scary word, but accurate in this context) to one before having to move on to considering a decision like cancelling his order.
   
  Now... I'll save more of this sort of talk for the other Arrow thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> @ Mediaogre
> 
> I respect your opinion as well and am sorry to see you make what appears to be such an abrupt about-face from your usual understanding of Robert's situation as a one man operation.
> All this bitching about lack of communication etc. by Robert/Headphonia should be in the other "Where oh where..." thread so this will be my last post here on this topic.
> ...


----------



## Mediaogre

Now I'll provide some relevant comments on the mighty Arrow!...
   
  I'm experiencing what seems like a short warm-up period with my Arrow and Sennheiser HD650. I don't know if it's a behavior of the HD650 or Arrow though. And it would be tough to measure and confirm without sticking a decibel meter between the HD650 drivers.
   
  I don't think I notice this with my IEMs, but what I'm experiencing is this: after about 15-30 minutes of listening at a comfortably loudish volume, I notice a gradual, but significant reduction in volume and possibly and subsequently, dynamics. So much that I reach for the Arrow's volume - and not because a good song has caught my ear.
   
  I can't posit in technical terms as to why this might be happening - if it even _is_ happening as it could just be my aging rocker's ears going through a pre rock out calibration sound check. As for an esoteric theory, is it possible the Arrow warms up and becomes less bright after a few minutes? Has anyone else noticed this with relatively high Ohms cans?
   
  Note: this isn't intended as a criticism. It's merely an observation.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Now I'll provide some relevant comments on the mighty Arrow!...
> 
> I'm experiencing what seems like a short warm-up period with my Arrow and Sennheiser HD650. I don't know if it's a behavior of the HD650 or Arrow though. And it would be tough to measure and confirm without sticking a decibel meter between the HD650 drivers.
> 
> ...


 

 I have found this to be the case to a certain extent regardless of the amp when using the HD650s. I've always put it down to acclimating to the sound. It is one of the reasons I like them so much. I can listen at louder volumes without fatigue or the piercing/harsh treble I hear with many other headphones.
   
  Quote: 





> it could just be my aging rocker's ears going through a pre rock out calibration sound check


----------



## Anaxilus

Apart from Hearing Threshold shift, did you adjust your Arrow settings for the HD650s?


----------



## Mediaogre

Well, DUH!  Kidding. Yeah, my HD650s get IMP 0, GAIN III, CROSS 0 or 1, BASS 0 or 1. But I always makes those changes before putting the HD650s on my dome. I don't change them on-the-fly.
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Apart from Hearing Threshold shift, did you adjust your Arrow settings for the HD650s?


----------



## Mediaogre

Good to hear! I was hoping you'd chime in. I can live with that explanation. And like I said, it was merely an observation. It's actually a behavior I sorta like. It reminds me that things, either organic or mechanical or going on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I have found this to be the case to a certain extent regardless of the amp when using the HD650s. I've always put it down to acclimating to the sound. It is one of the reasons I like them so much. I can listen at louder volumes without fatigue or the piercing/harsh treble I hear with many other headphones.


----------



## wuwhere

I got the following from Headphonia's Forum:
   
  "The Arrow 2G has the following improvements:

 - Second headphone jack
 - No real power switch
 - Deeper bass boost 9dB + 9dB
 - Better sounding opamp in the first stage (very expensive)
 - Longer battery run time (up to 50 hours)
 - Film input caps
 - Lower ESR power rail caps and decoupling caps
 - Rear switches are more recessed (less sticking out)
 - Better firmware (faster power shifting, more precise battery voltage detection etc.)"
   
  I'll definitely be trading my 1G.


----------



## dfkt

I wonder what that "very expensive" opamp is?


----------



## rehabitat

Great to see Rob has opened up a forum.  Much freer communications and better access to information without the need for us to bug the hell out of him.
   
http://www.headphonia.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> Great to see Rob has opened up a forum.  Much freer communications and better access to information without the need for us to bug the hell out of him.
> 
> http://www.headphonia.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8


 

 I hope interested members join the forum so we can keep this kind of  thread on topic from now on


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I hope interested members join the forum so we can keep this kind of  thread on topic from now on


 

 Absolutely. I thought there were only two differences between 1G and 2G, the bass switch has a higher gain and no more on/off switch. But when I asked him he came up with a long list.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Absolutely. I thought there were only two differences between 1G and 2G, the bass switch has a higher gain and no more on/off switch. But when I asked him he came up with a long list.


 

 I'm glad I didn't get my Gen 1.  Gen 2 is a very nice refinement.  Two headphone outs is a practical and brilliant idea among the many changes.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I'm glad I didn't get my Gen 1.  Gen 2 is a very nice refinement.  Two headphone outs is a practical and brilliant idea among the many changes.


 

 I would venture that 2G would sound like a completely different amp than 1G and it should given that he upgraded the opamp and the power delivery is different as well. I just wonder if the battery is the same.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> I would venture that 2G would sound like a completely different amp than 1G and it should given that he upgraded the opamp and the power delivery is different as well. I just wonder if the battery is the same.


 
   
  I think the AD8397 is the same and AFAIK it would largely dictate the sound signature so the general sound will likely be very similar, albeit with improved bass response.
 He likely has a slew of gen4 iPod batteries. I think it's a good choice as they are so easily accessible & inexpensive for a high capacity battery with a long life.
  Good questions for the new forum to be sure


----------



## Anaxilus

Think he said battery life improved.  I hope the signature isnt warmer.  I have plenty of warmth in my setup atm....


----------



## wuwhere

He stated in the forum that the 2G's opamp won't fit in the 1G's, so I think it is a different one. But I could be wrong.
  
  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I think the AD8397 is the same and AFAIK it would largely dictate the sound signature so the general sound will likely be very similar, albeit with improved bass response.
> He likely has a slew of gen4 iPod batteries. I think it's a good choice as they are so easily accessible & inexpensive for a high capacity battery with a long life.
> Good questions for the new forum to be sure


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> He stated in the forum that the 2G's opamp won't fit in the 1G's, so I think it is a different one. But I could be wrong.


 
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> Better sounding opamp in the *first *stage.


 
   
  I don't  think the AD8397 is the first stage op-amp but I'll double check as I'm no expert.


----------



## gameboy115

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> I got the following from Headphonia's Forum:
> 
> "The Arrow 2G has the following improvements:
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds fair for 30buck upgrade.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I don't  think the AD8397 is the first stage op-amp but I'll double check as I'm no expert.


 

 You are right, he only changed the first stage or preamp opamp. But the power opamp is the same AD8397.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> You are right, he only changed the first stage or preamp opamp. But the power opamp is the same AD8397.


 

 Yes thanks, I asked here http://www.headphonia.org/forums/showpost.php?p=579&postcount=14 and got the same reply. It's good to know for sure as I like the sound sig. of the AD8397 when it's properly implemented (as it is in the Arrow, Pico etc.). It sounds like Rob has found an op-amp that puts out a better pre-signal to it so I'm looking forward to hearing the new one.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Yes thanks, I asked here http://www.headphonia.org/forums/showpost.php?p=579&postcount=14 and got the same reply. It's good to know for sure as I like the sound sig. of the AD8397 when it's properly implemented (as it is in the Arrow, Pico etc.). It sounds like Rob has found an op-amp that puts out a better pre-signal to it so I'm looking forward to hearing the new one.


 

 X2. I'll definitely get a 2G, but the wait


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> X2. I'll definitely get a 2G, but the wait


 
  I don't mind waiting for the 2nd gen as long as I have the 1st while I wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Regardless of the changes, I imagine some might keep the first one for any number of reasons. It's still one of the best portables out there.


----------



## slickooz

Will the 2nd gen work better the TF-10? I have read earlier that the Arrow wasn't a good match with the TF-10. I really want to try this amp but if they don't sync well I don't want to be out out 265, or lose value due to selling.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> Will the 2nd gen work better the TF-10? I have read earlier that the Arrow wasn't a good match with the TF-10. I really want to try this amp but if they don't sync well I don't want to be out out 265, or lose value due to selling.


 

 2G is not out yet so I don't think anyone here will be able to answer your question.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> Will the 2nd gen work better the TF-10? I have read earlier that the Arrow wasn't a good match with the TF-10. I really want to try this amp but if they don't sync well I don't want to be out out 265, or lose value due to selling.


 

 I have a hard time understanding why the Arrow doesn't amplify these IEMs properly. I don't believe every post I read and have yet to find headphones of any type that don't sound good with this amp. It just doesn't make sense to me. I tend towards thinking there might be some bias in signature preference (or a fault in the IEMs) until I can hear them myself.  (IIRC the 2nd gen is supposed to mate better with low ohm IEMs because of the different op-amp in the pre-amp stage.) http://www.headphonia.org/forums/showpost.php?p=546&postcount=1
   
  From the Headphonia site: 
*Warranty*
 • 30-Day Money Back Guarantee 
   
  (so you don't have much to lose).


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I have a hard time understanding why the Arrow doesn't amplify these IEMs properly. I don't believe every post I read and have yet to find headphones of any type that don't sound good with this amp. It just doesn't make sense to me. I tend towards thinking there might be some bias in signature preference (or a fault in the IEMs) until I can hear them myself.


 
   
  I didn't have my Arrow when I had my stock Tripl-fi 10, but I have a feeling that you're right, that some people just don't like the SQ of the Tripl-fi 10 so much. But I could be wrong, maybe it does sound better out of other amps. I did like my Super-fi 5 Pro out of the Arrow better than I liked it anything else I tried when I had them. As far as my custom Tf-11, I haven't liked them any better out of anything else, but haven't tried many other amps with it.


----------



## wuwhere

I believe I know why the Arrow may not match well with the TF10. The TF10 has a V-shaped frequency response. The Arrow's midrange is slightly recessed compared to, for example, a TTVJ hybrid. Now this could be due to the Arrow's flatter frequency response. I believe Dfkt measured the Arrow's frequency response curve.


----------



## triodesteve

"I tend towards thinking there might be some bias in signature preference (or a fault in the IEMs) until I can hear them myself."
   
  Not for me...it's not a tipped up top end or a overdone bottom....the Arrow just sucked the life out of my TF10's. No pace or rythmn...it's where music went to die.
  Oddly I noticed the same thing when using other cables with the tf10's. The Westone cable did the same thing, the JH Audio less so. When I measured the resistance of all three cables (including the UE custom that I use), I found that the higher the resistance reading, the worse the sound. I have no idea what it all means however. 
  Believe me when I say I wanted to love the Arrow...small form factor, rechargeable long lasting battery, lots of options for tailoring the sound. Bummer for me.


----------



## grokit

Hmm... I wonder if the new Arrow will pump up the mids a bit more?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> the Arrow just sucked the life out of my TF10's


 
  How an amp that works well with every other headphone it has been used with "sucks the life" out of anything is very hard to understand. It amplifies what it's fed. If you are experiencing the same thing with different cables it makes me suspect the Arrow is to blame even less. As I said, I'd have to hear it; but they are your ears and there's plenty of gear to choose from.


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> I believe I know why the Arrow may not match well with the TF10. The TF10 has a V-shaped frequency response. The Arrow's midrange is slightly recessed compared to, for example, a TTVJ hybrid. Now this could be due to the Arrow's flatter frequency response. I believe Dfkt measured the Arrow's frequency response curve.


 

 Well, all amps I measured so far had a flat frequency response (Arrow, Headsix, Slee Voyager, iBasso T4, etc - only the Fiio E3 of course has a bass boost by default). I never heard/tested the TTVJ Hybrid, but it would be somewhat weird if a quality amp wouldn't be flat.


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





triodesteve said:


> Oddly I noticed the same thing when using other cables with the tf10's. The Westone cable did the same thing, the JH Audio less so. When I measured the resistance of all three cables (including the UE custom that I use), I found that the higher the resistance reading, the worse the sound. I have no idea what it all means however.


 

 I have tried an impedance adapter with my TF10. I have found that with the adapter, the treble sound absolutely horrible. After a lot of digging through various posts on the TF10, it seems that the TF10's crossover does not function well with the introduction of additional impedance.
   
  I'm currently waiting for Robert to ship out the 2G as well as my TF10 to come back from remolding. Meanwhile I have Null Audio Lune cable (cable arrived after sending the TF10s for remold, so haven't heard the difference) in the wings waiting to see what this combination would sound like. Hopefully 2G is a lot more TF10 friendly than some of you are experiencing with the first generation.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Well, all amps I measured so far had a flat frequency response (Arrow, Headsix, Slee Voyager, iBasso T4, etc - only the Fiio E3 of course has a bass boost by default). I never heard/tested the TTVJ Hybrid, but it would be somewhat weird if a quality amp wouldn't be flat.


 

 It could be that the TTVJ Hybrid is the one with the not-so-flat response, an upside-down V that accentuates the mids, and that could also be just what some people need for the Tf-10 to sound good to their ears. It makes me want to try it with my Tf-11s, as I really don't feel like I am getting much out of the additional mid-driver.
  
  Quote:  





> I'm currently waiting for Robert to ship out the 2G as well as my TF10 to come back from remolding. Meanwhile I have Null Audio Lune cable (cable arrived after sending the TF10s for remold, so haven't heard the difference) in the wings waiting to see what this combination would sound like. Hopefully 2G is a lot more TF10 friendly than some of you are experiencing with the first generation.


 
  Let us know when you get them both how they sound together


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Let us know when you get them both how they sound together


 

 Not a problem, since I'm sure there are a lot of UE owners here that are interested to see how well they will work together. I'm eager to hear the result myself. Now I play the waiting game....


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Well, all amps I measured so far had a flat frequency response (Arrow, Headsix, Slee Voyager, iBasso T4, etc - only the Fiio E3 of course has a bass boost by default). I never heard/tested the TTVJ Hybrid, but it would be somewhat weird if a quality amp wouldn't be flat.


 

 I'm listening to a UE10 Pro (not TF10), compared to my RSA Tomahawk, Headamp Pico, iBasso D10 and TTVJ hybrid, I hear the same thing, the Arrow is slightly less open. I believe someone else here made the same comment.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> I'm listening to a UE10 Pro (not TF10), compared to my RSA Tomahawk, Headamp Pico, iBasso D10 and TTVJ hybrid, I hear the same thing, the Arrow is slightly less open. I believe someone else here made the same comment.


 
  Do you mean with these particular IEMs as I found the opposite with other ear/headphones when comparing the Arrow with the Tomahawk and even the Pico (only less so). "Open" is a tough term so I'm assuming you mean "air" between instruments? Others have compared these amps and had different findings as well so I guess it does come down somewhat to synergy/signature preference..


----------



## triodesteve

" it makes me suspect the Arrow is to blame even less."
  I'm not trying to blame the amp...I think it's a wonderful amp..it's just not a good match for the tf10's.
  If I paired a Yamamoto SET amp with a pair of Rogers LS35A's, would it be the amps fault when it sounded like crap? No, it would be my fault...the amp wasn't designed to drive that kind of load. They are both good at what they do, but together it's a train wreck. 
  I think it's very important to match amp to speakers (or phones)...no amp matches perfectly with everything, although the Arrow seems to do a better job than many!
  Steve


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *triodesteve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> no amp matches perfectly with everything, although the Arrow seems to do a better job than many!
> Steve


 
   
  QFT


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Do you mean with these particular IEMs as I found the opposite with other ear/headphones when comparing the Arrow with the Tomahawk and even the Pico (only less so). "Open" is a tough term so I'm assuming you mean "air" between instruments? Others have compared these amps and had different findings as well so I guess it does come down somewhat to synergy/signature preference..


 

 You hit it, synergy. And perhaps this is just confined to certain IEMs, as well as like/dislike or preference. Mind you, I still like the Arrow overall. So it is a weakness that I can live with because my other amps have their own weaknesses as well.


----------



## gameboy115

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Well, all amps I measured so far had a flat frequency response (Arrow, Headsix, Slee Voyager, iBasso T4, etc - only the Fiio E3 of course has a bass boost by default). I never heard/tested the TTVJ Hybrid, but it would be somewhat weird if a quality amp wouldn't be flat.


 
  I agree with you. Being flat in frequency response is nothing wrong, at least to me, personally I hate heavily colored amp to alter the sound .
   
  Let your headphone to decide the sound, if you really hate headphone, why don't you just buy another?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





gameboy115 said:


> I agree with you. Being flat in frequency response is nothing wrong, at least to me, personally I hate heavily colored amp to alter the sound .
> 
> Let your headphone to decide the sound, if you really hate headphone, why don't you just buy another?


 

 A headphone or an IEM is not a measuring equipment like an audio frequency analyzer.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> A headphone or an IEM is not a measuring equipment like an audio frequency analyzer.


 

 Yet headphones and IEMs do have unique frequency response curves, just like our own hearing does; the trick is to match the two up so it please us.


----------



## gameboy115

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> A headphone or an IEM is not a measuring equipment like an audio frequency analyzer.


 

 I was talking about amp for flat response stuff
   
  Sorry,I don't get what you mean. For me, IIEM/headphone have unique frequency response, so I would like my amp to render IEM correctly, not spicing up with some flavor, that is what I mentioned.
   
  I don't need am amp to help me to fix up some issue I don't like in my IEM, I would prefer to change IEM instead.
   
  Naturality is what I am looking for amp
   
  It is good that you like to alter sound signature of IEM by amping, but it is not what I want


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





gameboy115 said:


> I was talking about amp for flat response stuff
> 
> Sorry,I don't get what you mean. For me, IIEM/headphone have unique frequency response, so I would like my amp to render IEM correctly, not spicing up with some flavor, that is what I mentioned.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Any decent amp will have a flat frequency response across across 20Hz - 20kHz, the audio band and even beyond, on an 8 Ohm load. But an HP or IEM is not a simple load to an amplifier. And there is no such thing as "spicing up" an amplifier to sound a certain way.


----------



## gameboy115

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Any decent amp will have a flat frequency response across across 20Hz - 20kHz, the audio band and even beyond, on an 8 Ohm load. But an HP or IEM is not a simple load to an amplifier. And there is no such thing as "spicing up" an amplifier to sound a certain way.


 


  Really? That is not what I heard from P-51/ ALO RX


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





gameboy115 said:


> Really? That is not what I heard from P-51/ ALO RX


 

 What did you hear?


----------



## gameboy115

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> What did you hear?


 

 Like RSA line of product, it twist the way the vocal presents in specific way which other amp does not


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





gameboy115 said:


> Like RSA line of product, it twist the way the vocal presents in specific way which other amp does not


 

 Can you further explain what you meant by "twist" and can you provide a song that I can listen to so that I may compare my other amps against with?


----------



## mythless

Hrmm I wished I was never shown this...with the USB DAC cable, the arrow seems like a nice desktop set up as well, a nice all in one package, for computer or portable.


----------



## gameboy115

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Can you further explain what you meant by "twist" and can you provide a song that I can listen to so that I may compare my other amps against with?


 

 I don't have any songs for your reference
   
  I got to say it is up to personal perception what naturality is, we would have no constructive conclusion by keeping this topic going, but I would surprise if you don't feel some kind of amp do not add favor / color the sound, so it leads all way back to 101 question, what makes the amp differs from each other?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> what makes the amp differs from each other


 
  Too many things to list here


----------



## mythless

too bad it doesn't have a non-usb charger.  Usb ports can be sparse at times.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mythless said:


> too bad it doesn't have a non-usb charger.  Usb ports can be sparse at times.


 


   
  99 cents including free shipping from eBay


----------



## Ptahkeem

anyone know how the 2g sounds with the tf10s?


----------



## violinvirtuoso

Quote: 





ptahkeem said:


> anyone know how the 2g sounds with the tf10s?


 

 As far as I can tell, no one has the 2G version yet.


----------



## Ptahkeem

ah ok.  was hoping to get a comparison between the 2g and the pico slim =/.


----------



## Tetrilias

What type of headphones/earphones does this amp work well with?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





tetrilias said:


> What type of headphones/earphones does this amp work well with?


 

 Any I've tried.
   
  This review of the 1G might help  (the 2nd gen is said to be even better) http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2010/04/headstage-arrow-12he-headphone-amplifier-review.php


----------



## mythless

Anyone have experience driving higher impedance 300 ohms+ headphones with the Arrow?  While I understand most people would get amps to suit their headphones, it would be quite interesting if the arrow could drive the HD800 properly.  Sound quality compared to other amps would differ, of course.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Anyone have experience driving higher impedance 300 ohms+ headphones with the Arrow?  While I understand most people would get amps to suit their headphones, it would be quite interesting if the arrow could drive the HD800 properly.  Sound quality compared to other amps would differ, of course.


 

 I think it was mentioned early on in the thread.
   
  "With an operation voltage of up to 12V and the best rail-to-rail operational amplifiers the Arrow is able to drive any headphones <600 ohms with authority."


----------



## Tetrilias

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I think it was mentioned early on in the thread.
> 
> "With an operation voltage of up to 12V and the best rail-to-rail operational amplifiers the Arrow is able to drive any headphones <600 ohms with authority."


 

 I'm not sure how much impedance ranges in head phones, but I noticed that Grados states that theirs are normally around 32ohms. This is a significant difference. Has anyone every tried extremely low impedance headphones?


----------



## Tetrilias

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I think it was mentioned early on in the thread.
> 
> "With an operation voltage of up to 12V and the best rail-to-rail operational amplifiers the Arrow is able to drive any headphones <600 ohms with authority."


 
  I'm not too familiar with the variation of impedance, but I noticed that Grados listed some of theirs being around 32ohms. This seems drastically smaller than 600ohms. Would it still drive it well compared to others though?


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I think it was mentioned early on in the thread.
> 
> "With an operation voltage of up to 12V and the best rail-to-rail operational amplifiers the Arrow is able to drive any headphones <600 ohms with authority."


 

 I saw that on the technical sheet, hmmm guess it's too early to have some real hands on data.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Anyone have experience driving higher impedance 300 ohms+ headphones with the Arrow?  While I understand most people would get amps to suit their headphones, it would be quite interesting if the arrow could drive the HD800 properly.  Sound quality compared to other amps would differ, of course.


 


 A lot of people have mentioned that they paired the Arrow with their Senn HD650 phones, which are 300ohm, and it worked out quite nicely. I have a pair of HD650 on the way eventually (they're back ordered at the momment from headphone.com), but I'll let you know how it goes... unfortuneately, I don't have a desktop setup to compare with at the momment.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mythless said:


> I saw that on the technical sheet, hmmm guess it's too early to have some real hands on data.


 

 There is plenty of data.  The Arrow 1g has been out for some time.


----------



## mythless

That's right I keep forgetting about the 1G.


----------



## Oomingmak

Have these begun shipping yet?


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





oomingmak said:


> Have these begun shipping yet?


 
   
  I don't think so, Robert mentioned August. I'm not sure when in August...


----------



## MrProggie

I am celebrating (??
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)  8 weeks of waiting exactly today! Hooray - *NOT*.


----------



## gameboy115

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> I am celebrating (??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Should I say "congratulation" ??
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Does Robert really build every amp by himself.............


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





tetrilias said:


> I'm not too familiar with the variation of impedance, but I noticed that Grados listed some of theirs being around 32ohms. This seems drastically smaller than 600ohms. Would it still drive it well compared to others though?


 

 I can't try my Grados at the moment because I lent out the 1/8" adapter, but it drives my 32-ohm MS 300 with authority. According to the specs: "Two-Step Impedance Setting (10/70/120 ohm)"; I'm not sure exactly how that matches up with the 0/II/I settings on the Arrow itself. I really like my Phiatons with it though, they _really_ sound great.
   
  Does anybody know how the 0/II/I translates into which impedance numbers for sure? I would assume that 0 =10 ohms, II = 120 ohms and I = 70 ohms. Like the other settings, it would be more intuitive if they were in progressive order.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> I am celebrating (??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha you should have been or seen the Pico waiting list/preorder list...


----------



## Mediaogre

LOL. I heard about that. Didn't you guys start a support group? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





mythless said:


> Haha you should have been or seen the Pico waiting list/preorder list...


----------



## vesperos

hello, i wanted to know if the headstage arrow 12he is more better of the ttvj slim ?


----------



## dfkt

It is an amp that drives basically any headphone perfectly well, no matter if low or high impedance, and has lots of tweaks too.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> LOL. I heard about that. Didn't you guys start a support group?


 

 Haha yeah some guys did.  As for me, I was busy for like 3 months so I never realized it, haha at one point I almost forgot.  Then finally one day I checked my email and *boom* I saw my tracking number.  I really want to compare the Arrow with the Pico Slim.  But, I doubt I would get a chance soon enough to do one.  As well I am sure someone will do a comparison, and doubt if anyone wants to trade spots


----------



## grokit

On the bright side, I would assume that anybody waiting will get the "new and improved" Arrow.


----------



## mythless

That's for sure!  The waiting game isn't so bad, if you keep yourself busy, haha


----------



## gameboy115

Just join the club !!!
   
  What you guys setting with UM3X?


----------



## Mediaogre

That's a great idea. I think it's been suggested before but if it has, it's been a while. dfkt may have compared the two, but I may be smoking something.
   
  If anyone has a Pico Slim and an Arrow please post your comparative impressions.
  
  Quote: 





mythless said:


> Haha yeah some guys did.  As for me, I was busy for like 3 months so I never realized it, haha at one point I almost forgot.  Then finally one day I checked my email and *boom* I saw my tracking number.  I really want to compare the Arrow with the Pico Slim.  But, I doubt I would get a chance soon enough to do one.  As well I am sure someone will do a comparison, and doubt if anyone wants to trade spots


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> That's a great idea. I think it's been suggested before but if it has, it's been a while. dfkt may have compared the two, but I may be smoking something.
> 
> If anyone has a Pico Slim and an Arrow please post your comparative impressions.


 

 I just checked dfkt's equipment list, the pico slim isn't on it.  Guess, we'll have to wait.


----------



## dfkt

I should get a Pico Slim for a review, maybe.


----------



## mythless

I wonder if the pico would be easier to get?  Well, there's always the sale forum, haha.  But, if new?  I wonder which one has the longer wait time.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mythless said:


> I just checked dfkt's equipment list, the pico slim isn't on it.  Guess, we'll have to wait.


 

 I'd rather have impressions of the TTVJ slim and the millet hybrid.


----------



## Mediaogre

You're in the minority, buddy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I'd rather have impressions of the TTVJ slim and the millet hybrid.


----------



## Mediaogre

LOL. I couldn't remember if you had one (or ever did). I'm sure you don't need my urging to justify commandeering one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  Quote: 





dfkt said:


> I should get a Pico Slim for a review, maybe.


----------



## dfkt

Well, I asked Justin for a review specimen. Some months have passed since...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> That's a great idea. I think it's been suggested before but if it has, it's been a while. dfkt may have compared the two, but I may be smoking something.


 

 Lol, if you're not sure if you've been smoking something, you probably have been.

  
  Quote: 





mythless said:


> I wonder if the pico would be easier to get?  Well, there's always the sale forum, haha.  But, if new?  I wonder which one has the longer wait time.


 

 I have seen a 4-5 Slims for sale, but only one Arrow. As I do not go to the amps for sale forum that regularly, my sampling is very unscientific. But I would think that the wait is longer for the Arrow.


----------



## wuwhere

http://www.headfonia.com/ttvj-ttvj/
   
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I'd rather have impressions of the TTVJ slim and the millet hybrid.


----------



## Anaxilus

I've read that one.  I was looking for another opinion especially in relation to someone who has heard the Arrow.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I've read that one.  I was looking for another opinion especially in relation to someone who has heard the Arrow.


 

 I have an Arrow G1 and a TTVJ Hybrid. I mostly listen to the Hybrid.


----------



## koonhua90

http://www.headphonia.com/The-Arrow-Amp/Headstage-Arrow-12HE-2G-High-Efficiency::10138.html?XTCsid=56cbc6e850a88cb38613dfde5e517a4f
   
  Seems like the Arrow 2G will only ship in September. I think it went from June, July, August to September. Perhaps October coming too


----------



## LintHart

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> http://www.headphonia.com/The-Arrow-Amp/Headstage-Arrow-12HE-2G-High-Efficiency::10138.html?XTCsid=56cbc6e850a88cb38613dfde5e517a4f
> 
> Seems like the Arrow 2G will only ship in September. I think it went from June, July, August to September. Perhaps October coming too


 

 Pray it stands true for "new orders" and not existing.


----------



## Oomingmak

Quote: 





linthart said:


> Pray it stands true for "new orders" and not existing.


 

 It's for all orders I believe. The website said the exact same thing in July and August and no one who ordered then has received the Arrow 2G. From a business standpoint it would be best to give yourself an extra month or two so If orders are expected to be completed in Sept then the website should state that new orders will ship in Nov. If it's completed before that then you can ship "early". Maybe he's waiting on parts from someone else and they keep flaking out?


----------



## Anaxilus

Its not too hard to ask Robert on his forum is it?  I hope this doesn't turn into another 3 pages of whining.


----------



## grokit

Quote:  





> I hope this doesn't turn into another 3 pages of whining.


 

 There is another thread for whining...


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Its not too hard to ask Robert on his forum is it?  I hope this doesn't turn into another 3 pages of whining.


 

 Someone asked him before, but he has not replied. This is not whining, but at this rate even Justin is doing better at updating the order list of pico slim.


----------



## Anaxilus

No worries.  I wasn't calling anyone out, just wanted to preempt history.


----------



## doorhandle

I ordered the Headstage Cable DAC last week, anyone know if this is held up as well??
   
  (Robert hasnt replied to my emails..hmmm).


----------



## Blu-ray

Hey, would my Sony MDR 7506 Headphones benefit from this amp?


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





doorhandle said:


> I ordered the Headstage Cable DAC last week, anyone know if this is held up as well??
> 
> (Robert hasnt replied to my emails..hmmm).


 

 Robert takes awhile to answer emails.


----------



## MrProggie

It is now 10 weeks since I ordered 12HE 2G. Hope it's just around the corner... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
_Yeah, right._


----------



## dannytang

Ordered mine last night and was previously told it would ship mid-September.


----------



## BloatedOne

Quote: 





dannytang said:


> Ordered mine last night and was previously told it would ship mid-September.


 

 The shipping time changed again? Last i heard it would ship in mid August. The wait is killing me.


----------



## mythless

I'm sure the wait is worth it


----------



## junkanoo

Quote: 





bloatedone said:


> The shipping time changed again? Last i heard it would ship in mid August. The wait is killing me.


 

 The site says September for "new" orders so I guess that depends on how they define "new" orders. 
   
  Perhaps the correct mindset at this point is expecting this unit in time for Christmas.  Then if it's earlier than that - it's a pleasant surprise.  Meanwhile, I'm just sitting on the sidelines waiting for owner's reactions to the second-gen model.


----------



## skyeosgp

Wow.  Looks like Headstage coping with more than they can handle.
  Hope the QC still maintained.
  in the meantime, more reading to do!


----------



## Anaxilus

This thread is like a 'B' movie version of 'Groundhog Day'.


----------



## MrProggie

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> This thread is like a 'B' movie version of 'Groundhog Day'.


 

 Or like the play 'Waiting for Godot'.


----------



## rehabitat

^lol x2
   
  This post, like the ones about the wait, seems rather pointless.
   
  Need I remind everyone that there is a more appropriate thread for this?
   
oh-where-oh-where-has-my-slim-arrow-gone-oh-where-oh-where-can-it-be


----------



## skyeosgp

Rehabitat is right.
  In case some of you are looking for it, check out the forum on Headstage.
  http://www.headphonia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59


----------



## average_joe

Quote: 





mythless said:


> I'm sure the wait is worth it


 

 Ha, you think that is a wait?  I am waiting for my Pico Slim still after what, 5 months and comments of delivery dates that have long past.  I am very glad I have the Arrow to tie me over.  All in all, the Arrow is a real winner IMO, especially given the price!  It fits perfectly with my 5.5g and all my other portable gear doesn't really get used.
   
  Oh, and in all my dealings with Robert, he is a great guy!


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





average_joe said:


> Ha, you think that is a wait?  I am waiting for my Pico Slim still after what, 5 months and comments of delivery dates that have long past.  I am very glad I have the Arrow to tie me over.  All in all, the Arrow is a real winner IMO, especially given the price!  It fits perfectly with my 5.5g and all my other portable gear doesn't really get used.
> 
> Oh, and in all my dealings with Robert, he is a great guy!


 

 Not to mention your LCD2.


----------



## average_joe

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Not to mention your LCD2.


 

 Yes, but that wait has not been all that long, just 2 months so far (and a month longer than originally expected).  It will be interesting to see how the Arrow drives the LCD-2


----------



## rehabitat

A_J, I will look forward to your thoughts on the LCD2.  I hope it's a great match up for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
   
  lol just noticed you two are from the OC.  You've almost caught up to AJ's post count Anaxilus  wow, that many in 5 months?...cranking!


----------



## Hellenback

> Originally Posted by *average_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Ha, you think that is a wait?  I am waiting for my Pico Slim still after what, 5 months and comments of delivery dates that have long past.  I am very glad I have the Arrow to tie me over.  All in all, the Arrow is a real winner IMO, especially given the price!  It fits perfectly with my 5.5g and all my other portable gear doesn't really get used.
> ...


 
   
  Nice to hear someone use this thread for what is was intended instead of burying positive impressions with more whining about wait times. The first gen. Arrow is a tough act to follow so I don't mind waiting to hear any improvements there might be with with the 2G.
   
  X2 re my own dealings with Robert.


----------



## mythless

Hrmm, so no one has the 2G? lol, I was under the impression there were some floating around.


----------



## junkanoo

Someone posted this over at the Arrow Forum:
   
   
  Quote: 





> OMG, my Arrow 2G finally arrived! I tried it out with my USB DAC Cable and through my Cowon J3 and it works fantastic! A good trait of this amp that I noticed immediately is the amazing channel separation.
> Among my stuff; SM3, E-Q7 and ATH-M50, my M50 got the most benefit, especially upon switiching the bass boost to I. Now that is deeeeep sub bass! It's not the normal bass boost of thump thump or boom boom, its BMMMM BMMMM! And it doesn't muddy or mask the entire frequency range.
> Rob, I'm now a loyal follower! The wait was defenitely worth it!


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> A_J, I will look forward to your thoughts on the LCD2.  I hope it's a great match up for you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Lol, higher post count just means I know less than when I started.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I think I owe AJ a cup of coffee somewhere down the line.  Perhaps after his LCD2 comes in....cough, cough.
   
  Edit - Holy cow-Its shipping?!  Brb!


----------



## slickooz

So can anyone answer if the 2nd gen fixed the problem it had with the tf-10? I really wanted one, but someone here said that the 1st gen didnt work well with tf-10.


----------



## dfkt

The 1st gen works perfectly well with multi-armature phones, better than most any other amp I've tried so far.
   
  It drives my UE11, SM3, SE530, etc - I don't see why it wouldn't drive the TF10 properly.


----------



## feverfive

I'm guessing we'll start seeing impressions of the 2G Arrow pretty soon...  Well, at least mine shows shipped as of today; who knows if that means it has _actually_ been shipped.  After selling my 1G, I'm still trying to decide whether to sell my 2G as new-in-the-box, or try it out for a couple of weeks.


----------



## average_joe

I have compared the Arrow 12HE with the Shadow and Mustang driving the TF10 and preferred the Shadow.  The reason is I found the TF10 mids to be recessed and the Shadow brought them out.  I preferred the Arrow with all my other IEMs in comparison with the other two amps.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





average_joe said:


> I have compared the Arrow 12HE with the Shadow and Mustang driving the TF10 and preferred the Shadow.  The reason is I found the TF10 mids to be recessed and the Shadow brought them out.  I preferred the Arrow with all my other IEMs in comparison with the other two amps.


 

 So I guess the Arrow would be more accurate then?


----------



## Mediaogre

I second dfkt's response, and I drive SE530s with the Arrow 1st gen too. No hiss even on GAIN II, IMP 0. I think, at some point, someone chalked up the tf-10 boo-hoo'ing to not knowing what the heck they were doing with the settings. If you insist on cranking the impedance down and the gain up, you're going to make shiz hiss.
  
  Quote: 





slickooz said:


> So can anyone answer if the 2nd gen fixed the problem it had with the tf-10? I really wanted one, but someone here said that the 1st gen didnt work well with tf-10.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





feverfive said:


> I'm guessing we'll start seeing impressions of the 2G Arrow pretty soon...  Well, at least mine shows shipped as of today; who knows if that means it has _actually_ been shipped.  After selling my 1G, I'm still trying to decide whether to sell my 2G as new-in-the-box, or try it out for a couple of weeks.


 

 Why would you wait this long and sell it without even hearing it?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> So can anyone answer if the 2nd gen fixed the problem it had with the tf-10? I really wanted one, but someone here said that the 1st gen didnt work well with tf-10.


 

*One* person said they heard it to be less than perfect with these IEMs.....who knows what settings...who knows whose ears will hear the same thing. I have to go with logic on this one and my logic says there just can't be that much of a problem when it drives every other head/earphone well. You won't have any trouble selling it if you don't like it, but I highly doubt that will be the case.


----------



## average_joe

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> So I guess the Arrow would be more accurate then?


 

 The Shadow has a mid forward sound signature while the Arrow is flatter...AKA more accurate I guess! 
   
  And for the record, I did not like the TF10.  I thought my other IEMs from the Arrow were better than the TF10 from the Shadow.
   
  And the Arrow can drive any IEM just fine.  At least any IEM I have tried it with as well as many full sized cans.  Well, all cans I have paired it with except the Tesla T1s!


----------



## grokit

As far as full-size headphones go, the Arrow hit its limit with the HE-5 and K701, making both of those cans clip at higher volume levels. The HD650 and LCD-2 were not a problem.


----------



## Anaxilus

That little Arrow driving the HD650, LCD2 is sexiness.  OMG, sooo close now!!


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





grokit said:


> As far as full-size headphones go, the Arrow hit its limit with the HE-5 and K701, making both of those cans clip at higher volume levels. The HD650 and LCD-2 were not a problem.


 

 How did the LCD-2's sound with the Arrow? I am highly considering them.


----------



## MrProggie

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> That little Arrow driving the* HD650*, LCD2 is sexiness.  OMG, sooo close now!!


 

 Yeah, that would be great. Whenever...
   
  I've been waiting 12 weeks now.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> How did the LCD-2's sound with the Arrow? I am highly considering them.


 

 I wish I had spent more time with that combo, but I was just checking for competency and clipping. The combo was competent, and didn't clip. Which is very good for any portable amp and a headphone like the LCD-2. Sorry I can't be of more help. But I will say that a decent full-size amp is a step up, especially if the synergy is right.


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I wish I had spent more time with that combo, but I was just checking for competency and clipping. The combo was competent, and didn't clip. Which is very good for any portable amp and a headphone like the LCD-2. Sorry I can't be of more help. *But I will say that a decent full-size amp is a step up, especially if the synergy is right.*


 

 Yeah, pretty much figured that. It is impressive that the little Arrow can power it decently though. But perhaps I'll wait a while and figure out more of a dedicated headphone amp I can leave at my desk at work.


----------



## feverfive

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Why would you wait this long and sell it without even hearing it?


 

 I actually placed an order for the 2nd Arrow for my little brother (who is just starting college this year...he has no credit card, and doesn't yet have a PayPal account) more than a month after I had placed the order for my Arrow (which I received in mid to late May).  I sold my 1G Arrow b/c I just don't use my portable player much these days.  My brother informed me several weeks ago that he just doesn't have the cash to pay for the 2G, so I'm in the position of deciding whether to keep "his" 2G, or sell it at no loss as NIB.


----------



## Mediaogre

It's a good thing we're all in this boutique market together and share a general sense of exclusive preservation, ethics, and price protection. Otherwise, we'd be seeing your G2 on Ebay for $500. 
  
  Quote: 





feverfive said:


> I actually placed an order for the 2nd Arrow for my little brother (who is just starting college this year...he has no credit card, and doesn't yet have a PayPal account) more than a month after I had placed the order for my Arrow (which I received in mid to late May).  I sold my 1G Arrow b/c I just don't use my portable player much these days.  My brother informed me several weeks ago that he just doesn't have the cash to pay for the 2G, so I'm in the position of deciding whether to keep "his" 2G, or sell it at no loss as NIB.


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Here are A few photos I took for fun and reference.
> 
> Shameless plug: my first DIY, interconnect cable project was a success. Not only does it complement the aesthetics of my new "rig" but it _works_ and the device configuration is ninja quiet.


 

 boss resurrection


----------



## Minazki

I did read through the whole thread but I barely found anything about Grados.
  I was thinking about getting Arrow for my sr-325is' and I would like to get some comments about that combination. I enjoy my music as portable as possible since I'm always going somewhere and this is like match made in heaven. My whole assembly would be iTouch 2g->Lod->Arrow->325is.
  Comments, ideas, experiences, something ?
   
  Edit: I just thought to add that the music I usually listen to is death/black/doom metal, grindcore but also alot stoner rock. And my metal isn't melodic, neither it is the most "brutal", I enjoy old school metal the most.


----------



## Hellenback

I can't imagine why this amp would not pair well with Grado cans. It has more versatility than any other amp and it works great with my Koss PortaPros (which are approx. the same impedance) Copper IEMs and Senn 650s.
   
  Metal w. Grados......Ouch!!!


----------



## mrmach7

heya, if you're in the market to sell if, i sent you a PM
   
  would rather be able to get it now than wait forever ;p
  
  Quote: 





feverfive said:


> I actually placed an order for the 2nd Arrow for my little brother (who is just starting college this year...he has no credit card, and doesn't yet have a PayPal account) more than a month after I had placed the order for my Arrow (which I received in mid to late May).  I sold my 1G Arrow b/c I just don't use my portable player much these days.  My brother informed me several weeks ago that he just doesn't have the cash to pay for the 2G, so I'm in the position of deciding whether to keep "his" 2G, or sell it at no loss as NIB.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





minazki said:


> I did read through the whole thread but I barely found anything about Grados.
> I was thinking about getting Arrow for my sr-325is' and I would like to get some comments about that combination. I enjoy my music as portable as possible since I'm always going somewhere and this is like match made in heaven. My whole assembly would be iTouch 2g->Lod->Arrow->325is.
> Comments, ideas, experiences, something ?
> 
> Edit: I just thought to add that the music I usually listen to is death/black/doom metal, grindcore but also alot stoner rock. And my metal isn't melodic, neither it is the most "brutal", I enjoy old school metal the most.


 

 It should be fine, I think from what I remember of the 1G it's quite the neutral amp which should be fine for the SR325i.  I have the 2G's rival the Pico Slim and it does a mighty fine job with my Grado.


----------



## Minazki

Thanks.
  I was thinking it yesterday that Grados already have good soundscape and as neutral amp this should boost everything without messing the whole sound.
  I ordered Arrow already yesterday since I knew it was good for something if not for Grado and it already became "order processing". Can't wait


----------



## MrProggie

Quote: 





minazki said:


> Thanks.
> I was thinking it yesterday that Grados already have good soundscape and as neutral amp this should boost everything without messing the whole sound.
> I ordered Arrow already yesterday since I knew it was good for something if not for Grado and it already became "order processing". *Can't wait *


 
   
  LOL. Then you picked the wrong amp.


----------



## Minazki

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> LOL. Then you picked the wrong amp.


 

 Your point being ?


----------



## rrt0000

Quote: 





minazki said:


> Your point being ?


 

 Think he was referring to your comment that "You can't wait". From what I've read- you're in for quite a wait .
   
  Btw, is the Arrow on a completely different level to the iBasso T3?


----------



## MrProggie

Quote: 





rrt0000 said:


> Think he was referring to your comment that "You can't wait". From what I've read- you're in for quite a wait .
> 
> Btw, is the Arrow on a completely different level to the iBasso T3?


 

 Thank you. You got the point.


----------



## Minazki

Oh yes, sorry for misunderstanding  It says on headstage that new orders will ship during September but after reading this thread I know that I may have quite a waiting ahead. I live in Europe so it may be faster but I can take the wait.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





rrt0000 said:


> Btw, is the Arrow on a completely different level to the iBasso T3?


 

 Yes, unequivocally.


----------



## dirkpitt45

Would getting the arrow for my m-50s be a worthwhile investment? I probably won't be picking up another set of cans for a while (starting university) but it seems amps can last a long time. Though I wouldn't be able to afford it till xmas so meh.


----------



## PANGES

For what it's worth, the Arrow has been able to improve pretty much ever headphone that I have tried.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





dirkpitt45 said:


> Would getting the arrow for my m-50s be a worthwhile investment? I probably won't be picking up another set of cans for a while (starting university) but it seems amps can last a long time. Though I wouldn't be able to afford it till xmas so meh.


 


 If you're refering to the Audio Technica M50, IIRC I don't think I heard much of "significant" change or change at all when I was powering them through my Pico.  FWIW, I would say get better headphones.


----------



## Mediaogre

Not according to this clown:
   
  "100% recommended
 RuiCanela reviewed Today at 8:39 am

   Headstage Arrow 12HE is an excellent product, offers an unmatched sound quality at a very low price. It is an amplifier that can shape your sound depending on our phones. *In terms of portability is one of the best, only beaten by iBasso T-series*. I use the Arrow with a TF10, and I tell you it is a great combination. Apart from the waiting time (from May 16 till now) I am totally satisfied with your purchase, 100% recommended!"

   

  I just hate this kind of misinformed, weasel-worded statement - and lack of attention to detail in a review. "I am totally satisfied with _your_ purchase," Really?


  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Yes, unequivocally.


 
   
  Quote: 





rrt0000 said:


> Btw, is the Arrow on a completely different level to the iBasso T3?


----------



## dfkt

While I don't have the T3, I have used the T4 for many a year - it's basically in the range of the FiiO E5, just with better build and volume control. Meaning it's not a bad amp at all (better than all Go-Vibe and Linearossa amps I tested) - but it sure is no Arrow. The T3 must be quite a bit better than the T4, if that statement above is true.
   
  Also, it seems RuiCanela actually had the T4, not the T3, according to his posts.


----------



## MrProggie

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Not according to this clown:
> 
> I just hate this kind of misinformed, weasel-worded statement - and lack of attention to detail in a review. "I am totally satisfied with *your *purchase," *Really?*


 

 Perhaps English is not his first language.


----------



## chrisplusk

I got the Arrow a while ago and I must say it's amazing, it improved the enjoyment of my PFEs beyond my expectations and even beyond what I hoped of it.
   
  I have to say Robert did change the status on my amp to send several weeks before actually sending it, but take comfort in the fact that it will eventually arrive.
   
  It's currently in repair because the left channel went mute, and I really _really_ miss it. When I get it back from Robert I will most likely order the new updated model. I´ll use my current one during the wait and later as a backup. I'll have to wait and see/hear the differences to believe it was possible to improve this little amp!
   
  Although Robert's responsiveness to e-mail and other messages can be.. trying.. It's definately worth the wait!


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> Perhaps English is not his first language.


 

 I'd guess not, it's probably Portugeuse.  I'm sure he's referring to form factor rather than SQ on whole.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> While I don't have the T3, I have used the T4 for many a year - it's basically in the range of the FiiO E5, just with better build and volume control. Meaning it's not a bad amp at all (better than all Go-Vibe and Linearossa amps I tested) - but it sure is no Arrow. The T3 must be quite a bit better than the T4, if that statement above is true.
> 
> Also, it seems RuiCanela actually had the T4, not the T3, according to his posts.


 

 I compared the T4 to E5 a while back in a review of the HiFiMan RE2, and I felt the T4 was only slightly better, but still not as good as my iPhone 3GS headphone out.  However, I mentioned in my T3 review that the T3 is a big step up from that in detail, transparency and soundstage.  Unfortunately hearing the T4 wont give you an idea of the T3 sound.
   
  But it's still slightly behind my Headsix, and the iBasso D4 is an even bigger step up from there.  From previous experience I thought my old $69 Penguin Amp Caffeine Pro was as good as my Headsix and it would surely give the T3 a good fight - I don't doubt that Robert can build a nice sounding amp, and I would bet the Arrow is better.
   
  When the reviewer was talking about *portability*, I think he was only referring to a small flat portable amp and not the sound, as I doubt any iBasso T-series will beat the sound of the Arrow (which I have not heard yet).  But the T3 was my "go to" pocket size portable amp until my Pico Slim arrived, because it was simply easier to take with me than any of my other portables when wanting to slide it into a shallow pants pocket without being bulky.


----------



## Mediaogre

^^^^ Good points, all. I'll lighten up. My point is if you're going to review something, bring your A game.


----------



## Trapper32

Maybe it was his "A" game...in any event it was rude to call him a clown.
   
   
   
   


mediaogre said:


> Not according to this clown:
> 
> "100% recommended
> RuiCanela reviewed Today at 8:39 am
> ...


 




  Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> ^^^^ Good points, all. I'll lighten up. My point is if you're going to review something, bring your A game.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Not according to this clown:
> 
> "100% recommended
> RuiCanela reviewed Today at 8:39 am
> ...


 
   
  I don't think we should have to decipher a review but I have to say this one really does need some clarification.
   
  I'm assuming what he means by his comments on the iBasso amps "beating"  the Arrow "in terms of portability" is that they are smaller therefore "more portable".  While they _are _smaller they are no more convenient to carry with most players. The form factor of the Arrow allows it to pair more seamlessly with > 90% of the DAPs out there. I have heard the T4 and while a decent amp for IEMs it comes nowhere near the Arrow's performance.
   
  Those whining about wait times should take a look at the JH audio thread where the amp that pairs with the > $1000 JH13/16 IEMs was pushed back 3 months shortly before it's promised release.  
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/495320/jh-audio-jh-3a/975#post_6912948  
   
  s#"t happens!


----------



## Trapper32

I didn't find anything ambiguous about his post.  Portablilty in this context refers to size obviously and in his opinion the Arrow it is second only to the T-series.  He doesn't feel that the T series is a match SQ wise as his previous statement says the Arrow  "offers an unmatched sound quality at a very low price."  Unmatched is self explanatory.  He considers it the best.
  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I don't think we should have to decipher a review but I have to say this one really does need some clarification.
> 
> I'm assuming what he means by his comments on the iBasso amps "beating"  the Arrow "in terms of portability" is that they are smaller therefore "more portable".  While they _are _smaller they are no more convenient to carry with most players. The form factor of the Arrow allows it to pair more seamlessly with > 90% of the DAPs out there. I have heard the T4 and while a decent amp for IEMs it comes nowhere near the Arrow's performance.
> 
> ...


----------



## tripp2k

Couldn't resist and had to order this amp.


----------



## Raines

what is the diference of the new model?
   
  thanks


----------



## deaththeorist

no on/off switch, 2 headphone outs, change in bass settings to +9db and +18db and various hardware stuff
   
   
  random suggesting to robert, how bout changing the volume pot to digital swinger like on T3D and one depresses the swinger/rocker thing to change volume for the headphone outs INDIVIDUALLY so we can now use headphones with iems concurrently with this thingy! OWNAGE


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





trapper32 said:


> I didn't find anything ambiguous about his post.  Portablilty in this context refers to size obviously and in his opinion the Arrow it is second only to the T-series.  He doesn't feel that the T series is a match SQ wise as his previous statement says the Arrow  "offers an unmatched sound quality at a very low price."  Unmatched is self explanatory.  He considers it the best.


 

 Pretty much as I thought/said...I was responding to those who _did_ seem to find the "review" unclear or ambiguous. Glad you didn't.


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





tripp2k said:


> Couldn't resist and had to order this amp.


 

 You're gonna enjoy once you receive it, that's for sure. Resistance is futile!


----------



## Anaxilus

So I just got my Arrow a few hours ago, posted my reception on the other thread and decided to log off.  After a few hours of listening, I CANT STOP!!!  This little thing is a freaking beast!  What a package, and the configurable options are so well thought out and perform amazingly.  This is the first time ever I have not had reservations using bass boost.  Geez.  I just had to come log back in and share the enthusiasm.  Finally, my E5 gets relegated to Clip+ duty solely.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> So I just got my Arrow a few hours ago, posted my reception on the other thread and decided to log off.  After a few hours of listening, I CANT STOP!!!  This little thing is a freaking beast!  What a package, and the configurable options are so well thought out and perform amazingly.  This is the first time ever I have not had reservations using bass boost.  Geez.  I just had to come log back in and share the enthusiasm.  Finally, my E5 gets relegated to Clip+ duty solely.


 

 Damnit! Wish mine would arrive (but I will bite my tongue); awesome. Glad you dig. This is *exactly* the reason why I'm giving an E5 away for FREE on the For Sale thread.  Post more impression's man!


----------



## Hellenback

*@ Anaxilus *
   
  Some things really are worth waiting for...don't ya think?


----------



## rehabitat

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> So I just got my Arrow a few hours ago, posted my reception on the other thread and decided to log off.  After a few hours of listening, I CANT STOP!!!  This little thing is a freaking beast!  What a package, and the configurable options are so well thought out and perform amazingly.  This is the first time ever I have not had reservations using bass boost.  Geez.  I just had to come log back in and share the enthusiasm.  Finally, my E5 gets relegated to Clip+ duty solely.


 

 Congrats and enjoy. I think you have waited longer than any other.  Well done


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> So I just got my Arrow a few hours ago, posted my reception on the other thread and decided to log off.  After a few hours of listening, I CANT STOP!!!  This little thing is a freaking beast!  What a package, and the configurable options are so well thought out and perform amazingly.  This is the first time ever I have not had reservations using bass boost.  Geez.  I just had to come log back in and share the enthusiasm.  Finally, my E5 gets relegated to Clip+ duty solely.


 

 So yours is the V2 Arrow? Did you get a chance to listen to the V1 for comparison?


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> So I just got my Arrow a few hours ago, posted my reception on the other thread and decided to log off.  After a few hours of listening, I CANT STOP!!!  This little thing is a freaking beast!  What a package, and the configurable options are so well thought out and perform amazingly.  This is the first time ever I have not had reservations using bass boost.  Geez.  I just had to come log back in and share the enthusiasm.  Finally, my E5 gets relegated to Clip+ duty solely.


 

 Yeah, man! I kinda forgot you ordered one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You earned the Vigilant Mailbox Stakeout achievement. It's so good to hear a proud new owner gush about it. Let us know how it works with all your phones. Enjoy!


----------



## reminence

Can anyone comment on the arrows new 18db (9 + 9) <100hz! boost?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So yours is the V2 Arrow? Did you get a chance to listen to the V1 for comparison?


 

 Unfortunately no, I never got to hear the V1.
  
  Quote: 





reminence said:


> Can anyone comment on the arrows new 18db (9 + 9) <100hz! boost?


 

 YES!  Lets put it this way, with Bass set to II.  Hellooo Kick Drums!!  As someone who never uses Bass boost due to noise and muddy distortion, the boost on the Arrow is damned impressive.
   
  Right now I've got my QA350-->Arrow-->RS-1 + Rush = Kickass!  I was considering getting some flatpads for my RS1 to bring a bit of bass out but I think that's unnecessary now.  Plus I keep the benefits of the bowls.


----------



## reminence

wow, I'm impressed.
   
  I wonder if there is another portable amp that does do +18db bass let alone @<70Hz and implemented as well as people are saying?


----------



## tiohn

I am currently running a Teclast T51/SFlo:2 through Ultrasone Pro 900s and Hippo VBs. How large an upgrade would the Arrow be over the T51's headphone out? In particular, I would like to get more power to the Pro 900s.


----------



## wazzupi

I pretty much get dynamic bass for every instrumental impact with the nano>arrow>es10 its unreal the amount of bass increase I got and how amazing it sounds. only thing I seem to have trouble with is understanding what crossfeed does I've tried putting it on 1 0 2 and none of them change the sound the slightest bit can anyone clarify on what it might or suppose to do ?


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





wazzupi said:


> I pretty much get dynamic bass for every instrumental impact with the nano>arrow>es10 its unreal the amount of bass increase I got and how amazing it sounds. only thing I seem to have trouble with is understanding what crossfeed does I've tried putting it on 1 0 2 and none of them change the sound the slightest bit can anyone clarify on what it might or suppose to do ?


 

 RE: Cross feed. 
   
  Get an old Beatles recording (something off The White Album would work) where vocals are panned hard left and guitar hard right ... then listen with the crossfeed enabled, it should subtly "blend" the right and left channels so as to better approximate what one would hear when listening to speakers. 
   
  I've never dug crossfeed, myself ... but others do.


----------



## wazzupi

thanks !
  Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> RE: Cross feed.
> 
> Get an old Beatles recording (something off The White Album would work) where vocals are panned hard left and guitar hard right ... then listen with the crossfeed enabled, it should subtly "blend" the right and left channels so as to better approximate what one would hear when listening to speakers.
> 
> I've never dug crossfeed, myself ... but others do.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





tiohn said:


> I am currently running a Teclast T51/SFlo:2 through Ultrasone Pro 900s and Hippo VBs. How large an upgrade would the Arrow be over the T51's headphone out? In particular, I would like to get more power to the Pro 900s.


 

 Once you amp from the Sflo2 LO to the Pro 900 I don't think you'll look back.  I didn't.  A few swear by the HO though, probably more for convenience sake.


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> RE: Cross feed.
> 
> Get an old Beatles recording (something off The White Album would work) where vocals are panned hard left and guitar hard right ... then listen with the crossfeed enabled, it should subtly "blend" the right and left channels so as to better approximate what one would hear when listening to speakers.
> 
> I've never dug crossfeed, myself ... but others do.


 
   
  Ha, I was just listening to the Beatle 1 album last night and you are right on their recording, the vocal was way left and the instrument was far right. After a couple of songs it started to give a a headache. I guess that would have been the perfect instance to use the crossfeed feature. Too bad I'm still waiting for mine to be shipped...


----------



## straden

Just ordered one....
  i can't believe ive spent more than 600 bucks in one year for portable audio set up, it better be worth it lol 
  and still got to find a cable to buy... anyone know affordable LOD cable as well as a cable for my d2? .,...
  oh and how long is wait these days?....


----------



## dfkt

Cables make no difference. Just build one yourself, or buy something like with a non-idiotic price, like the FiiO cable.


----------



## straden

Thanks, im looking at FIIO L1 and L3 LOD cables, only difference is thickness right? if so, would L3's dock fit (thickness) the arrow?


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





straden said:


> Just ordered one....
> i can't believe ive spent more than 600 bucks in one year for portable audio set up, it better be worth it lol
> and still got to find a cable to buy... anyone know affordable LOD cable as well as a cable for my d2? .,...
> oh and how long is wait these days?....


 


 For what it's worth. Of all the audio gear I've bought in this past year, I would say the Arrow is one of my favorite pieces of equipment.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





panges said:


> For what it's worth. Of all the audio gear I've bought in this past year, I would say the Arrow is one of my favorite pieces of equipment.


 

 Ditto.  I was concerned about missing out on what the Stepdance might sound like.  After playing w/ the Arrow, the form factor, versatility and configurability is just astonishing in such a small package.  Whatever sonic edge the Stepdance might have would have to be weighed against the Arrow beating it every other way, including price.  Seems like Apples versus Oranges when it comes down to it.  Btw, I just put some Zagg Invisible Shield on my Arrow.  Did my Sflo2 too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ready for the world! Muahahaha!!


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Ditto.  I was concerned about missing out on what the Stepdance might sound like.  After playing w/ the Arrow, the form factor, versatility and configurability is just astonishing in such a small package.  Whatever sonic edge the Stepdance might have would have to be weighed against the Arrow beating it every other way, including price.  Seems like Apples versus Oranges when it comes down to it.  Btw, I just put some Zagg Invisible Shield on my Arrow.  Did my Sflo2 too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Which Zagg shields did you use for each device. I would like to do the same.
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> Which Zagg shields did you use for each device. I would like to do the same.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 

 Sadly, they were sample sheets.  Had to cut to size.  Despite the rep saying you can't cut them w/o making a mess, medical shears seem to work.


----------



## tripp2k

Quote: 





straden said:


> Thanks, im looking at FIIO L1 and L3 LOD cables, only difference is thickness right? if so, would L3's dock fit (thickness) the arrow?


 


 I ordered both. They are sitting patiently ("burning them in" through rest) awaiting the arrive of my Headstage Arrow.


----------



## Anaxilus

Found a new use for the Arrow 2G today.  I can listen to one phone while another burns-in next to it w/o tying up one of my sources.
   
  @CN11  Yes the MD's are fantastic out of the Arrow.  Bass set to 0 and it still kicks butt.  Hip Hop, Rap, Dance, Techno, Pop, Jazz flow like butter.
   
  Also not sure if my ears are acclimating to the Arrow BB or what but I went back down to I rather than II for my DBAs.


----------



## Qonad

After receiving the shipping notification, how long did it take for you guys to finally receive the amp?


----------



## wazzupi

about 2 weeks in miami florida.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





qonad said:


> After receiving the shipping notification, how long did it take for you guys to finally receive the amp?


 

 Wish I could say. I ordered on July 8 and still haven't received a "shipped" notice.
   
  Starting to get antzy but can do nothing but wait. No way would I cancel after practically three months waiting.


----------



## MrProggie

Quote:


s1rrah said:


> Wish I could say. I ordered on July 8 and still haven't received a "shipped" notice.
> 
> Starting to get antzy but can do nothing but wait. No way would I cancel after practically three months waiting.


   
  I've been waiting since June 1st. I am not giving up now. I'll just wait another day and another day and another day - until it arrives.
  I am a very patient man.


----------



## cn11

You truly have the patience of a Saint.


----------



## MrProggie

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> You truly have the patience of a Saint.


 

 Get down on your knees and worship me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 while handing me some popcorn.


----------



## wazzupi

anyone willing to purchase mine ? I kinda used the sticky stuff already I'll place it nicely back if you like LOL. But you don't have to wait for the device and I can asure you it's working properly. message me if you like *I am selling it only because I am buying the jh3a+16 so I have no use for it.


----------



## Anaxilus

You guys will join the Arrow club soon enough, I have no doubt.  Back to my listening.


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> You guys will join the Arrow club soon enough, I have no doubt.  Back to my listening.


 

 How do they sound with your RS1? I'm in the early July batch so I probably won't be able check out the synergy myself for another while...


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





wazzupi said:


> anyone willing to purchase mine ? I kinda used the sticky stuff already I'll place it nicely back if you like LOL. But you don't have to wait for the device and I can asure you it's working properly. message me if you like *I am selling it only because I am buying the jh3a+16 so I have no use for it.


 

 Danke wazzupi ... but I've waited this long so I may as well keep waiting. And besides, I'd rather the money go to the designer/builder. 
   
  But again, thanks for the offer.


----------



## Caphead78

Well I just ordered one! s1rrah, have you gotten yours yet??


----------



## Mediaogre

Hey dizzyraider,
   
  I don't own a pair, but I actually took my Arrow down to 32 Ohm Audio in Portland with the sole purpose of auditioning the RS2i and RS1i. They sounded sweet and had the best treble of the group of phones that I auditioned and were wicked easy to drive with the their 32 ohm spec being, arguably, right in the meat of the Arrow's sweet spot. Against my initial desire, I ended up with the Sennheiser HD650, and despite it's icky, plasticy, faux tech look, I preferred the overall signature and feel. Although, one could easily argue that the RS1 could find more versatile settings options and preferences when pairing with the Arrow. I'm pretty much stuck with GAIN III (for drive) and IMP 0 (to maintain highs) with the HD650s since it's a more demanding phone. That in itself is a testament to the Arrow's power and versatility. Many portable amps the size of the Arrow wouldn't even come close to dreaming about driving the big cans. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> How do they sound with your RS1? I'm in the early July batch so I probably won't be able check out the synergy myself for another while...


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> That in itself is a testament to the Arrow's power and versatility. Many portable amps the size of the Arrow wouldn't even come close to dreaming about driving the big cans.


 
   
  Says it all right there.


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Hey dizzyraider,
> 
> I don't own a pair, but I actually took my Arrow down to 32 Ohm Audio in Portland with the sole purpose of auditioning the RS2i and RS1i. They sounded sweet and had the best treble of the group of phones that I auditioned and were wicked easy to drive with the their 32 ohm spec being, arguably, right in the meat of the Arrow's sweet spot. Against my initial desire, I ended up with the Sennheiser HD650, and despite it's icky, plasticy, faux tech look, I preferred the overall signature and feel. Although, one could easily argue that the RS1 could find more versatile settings options and preferences when pairing with the Arrow. I'm pretty much stuck with GAIN III (for drive) and IMP 0 (to maintain highs) with the HD650s since it's a more demanding phone. That in itself is a testament to the Arrow's power and versatility. Many portable amps the size of the Arrow wouldn't even come close to dreaming about driving the big cans.


 

 Thanks for sharing your experience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. When I placed the order for the Arrow, I didn't really have the intention of running them with my cans. However it is nice to know that when I not going be home, I can still take my RS1i on the go and match them with my portable setup. Now it's just more waiting game (Robert mentioned that he has just shipped out June's order, I'm almost there....phew)


----------



## MrProggie

I just got mine. I am testing it while charging it for the first time. Zero gain is not enough for the HD650's.  Too early to tell about the SQ yet.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> despite it's icky, plasticy, faux tech look


 
   
  Are you talking about the Senn HD650s? Most people I know think they're a very nice looking headphone, myself included. Now the HD800s...that's a plastic faux-tech look!
   
  I really don't see what's offensive looking about the 650s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I think they look 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  To each their own I guess.


----------



## Mediaogre

Not to veer _too_ much off topic, but yes, I was talking about the awesome _sounding_ HD650s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The looks don't offend me, I just don't care for the orange peel paint finish, areas where you can see the mold injection seams, rough edges, and the see-through grill exposing all the black plastic of the driver housing. At their price, more attention to detail on the finish materials in general would be greatly appreciated. LOVE the sound though and the comfort and that's what counts. Now, the HD800s... they're in a faux tech league of their own! They belong on Lobot's (Star Wars' Lando Calrissian's aide) head. To each his own indeed. Sorry, Hellenback!
   
  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Are you talking about the Senn HD650s? Most people I know think they're a very nice looking headphone, myself included. Now the HD800s...that's a plastic faux-tech look!
> 
> I really don't see what's offensive looking about the 650s
> 
> ...


----------



## MrProggie

The HD650s are great, but if I would give them a nick name it would be "the princess Leia headphones".
   



   
  After a few hours of burn in, the Arrow is starting to open up.
  When I in the beginning listened to it (right after opening the box) the sound appeared very closed and dark.
   
  After burning in:
  The bass is very tight and solid, even without the bass boost function. The sound of the HD650s might not be neutral, but the Arrow amp help in that respect. The sound is very detailed. You won't miss any details from recordings.
   
  Was it worth the four months of waiting? Yes, probably...
   
  I don't feel the need to justify my purchase. If I felt the amp sucked I would immediately order the PB1 Toucan Balanced Amp and sell of the Arrow. Thankfully I don't need to.


----------



## Somnambulist

Quote: 





wazzupi said:


> anyone willing to purchase mine ? I kinda used the sticky stuff already I'll place it nicely back if you like LOL. But you don't have to wait for the device and I can asure you it's working properly. message me if you like *I am selling it only because I am buying the jh3a+16 so I have no use for it.


 

  
  Price? Willing to ship to the UK?


----------



## Mediaogre

So _that's_ why I feel like putting on a gold metal bikini when I'm listening to them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now for some John Williams.
   
  Man, it's so good to hear you finally have your Arrow and that it's working for you. The more you use it, the more you'll like it and come to respect its subtle design strengths and user-friendly features. With regard to settings with the HD650s, I'm a loud head and GAIN III, IMP 0 works well for me and no hiss to my bye-bye-to-frequencies-above-14khz ears. You're right on on the bass. I rarely use the first bump anymore. I just turn the whole mix up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> The HD650s are great, but if I would give them a nick name it would be "the princess Leia headphones".
> 
> After a few hours of burn in, the Arrow is starting to open up.
> When I in the beginning listened to it (right after opening the box) the sound appeared very closed and dark.
> ...


----------



## jendol

I have placed an order for he12 one week ago, can anybody tell me how long will I have to wait till I get this amp? I got an email saying they received my order just 1 day after ordering, and 2 days later got another email stating that my order is being processed


----------



## MrProggie

Quote: 





jendol said:


> I have placed an order for he12 one week ago, can anybody tell me how long will I have to wait till I get this amp? I got an email saying they received my order just 1 day after ordering, and 2 days later got another email stating that my order is being processed


 


  Probably not  as long as I and others had to wait. Perhaps one or two months?

 
   
  I have actually started to notice details in many of my FLAC tracks which I hadn't noticed before, which might be instruments in the background or noises made in the recording studio. I will probably invest in a better cable for my HD650s as well. Perhaps the Silver Dragons.
   
  My setting are zero for Bass and Imp and two(max) for Gain. I don't use the Crossfeed. Haven't tested them with my IEMs yet.


----------



## GnuB

Currently I am listening to (Sansa Fuze or Cowon D2) -> Penguin Caffeine -> ER4P   OR  PC USB -> Penguin DAC Cable -> Penguin Caffeine -> ER4P and am wondering whether substituting the Arrow 12HE for the Penguin would be "just about the same" or "nicely better" or "*WOW! that's what I have been missing*."  Both the Penguin and the Arrow use the same AD8397opamp and both are built by Robert.  The  feature count is higher on the 12HE but the Penguin has bass boost and hi / low gain switches.  The Penguin throws a pretty good soundstage and the ER4P's don't take much to drive and with the bass boost they have a decent bottom end.   
   
   
   Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> From previous experience I thought my old $69 Penguin Amp Caffeine Pro was as good as my Headsix and it would surely give the T3 a good fight - I don't doubt that Robert can build a nice sounding amp, and I would bet the Arrow is better.





   
  Anyhoo, any opinions on what the degree of improvement might be and how the Arrow might be "Better"?


----------



## straden

Quote: 





jendol said:


> I have placed an order for he12 one week ago, can anybody tell me how long will I have to wait till I get this amp? I got an email saying they received my order just 1 day after ordering, and 2 days later got another email stating that my order is being processed


 


  I ordered 2~3 weeks ago, and I got reply from headphonia that it will be shipped this month (october) , so you would be in similar boat or little later.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





gnub said:


> Currently I am listening to (Sansa Fuze or Cowon D2) -> Penguin Caffeine -> ER4P   OR  PC USB -> Penguin DAC Cable -> Penguin Caffeine -> ER4P and am wondering whether substituting the Arrow 12HE for the Penguin would be "just about the same" or "nicely better" or "*WOW! that's what I have been missing*."  Both the Penguin and the Arrow use the same AD8397opamp and both are built by Robert.  The  feature count is higher on the 12HE but the Penguin has bass boost and hi / low gain switches.  The Penguin throws a pretty good soundstage and the ER4P's don't take much to drive and with the bass boost they have a decent bottom end.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhoo, any opinions on what the degree of improvement might be and how the Arrow might be "Better"?


 

 Since you use an amp I'm curious why you don't use the S or S adapter?


----------



## zappp

I upgraded from Lyrix to Arrow because of battery (>30 hours capacity, same as iPod's) and shape. 
   
  The bass boost is handy with bass-shy phones, e.g. AKG 271, RE0 or ER4.
   
  By increasing output impedance on the Arrow, you may save that P to S adapter.
   
  In terms of sound quality I am pressed hard to hear a substantial improvement.


----------



## wuwhere

On my 1G, for me, about 100 hours of burn-in, but ymmv.
  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MrProggie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> After a few hours of burn in, the Arrow is starting to open up.
> When I in the beginning listened to it (right after opening the box) the sound appeared very closed and dark.


----------



## wuwhere

Is this comparison between the Lyrix and Arrow 1G or 2G?
  
  Quote: 





zappp said:


> I upgraded from Lyrix to Arrow because of battery (>30 hours capacity, same as iPod's) and shape.
> 
> In terms of sound quality I am pressed hard to hear a substantial improvement.


----------



## MrProggie

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> On my 1G, for me, about 100 hours of burn-in, but ymmv.


 

 I noticed a change after about five to six hours of burn in. Since this five-six hour burn in I can't say I am able to notice any large change in sound.
 Possibly the sound is becoming more transparent, but that is all.


----------



## GnuB

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Since you use an amp I'm curious why you don't use the S or S adapter?


 
   
  Actually, I was on the verge of ordering a plug that did the same thing - add resistance to the signal path.  I run the Penguin amp on the low gain setting and don't have to crank in the volume knob much to hear it really well.  The adapter would give me more granularity with the volume knob regardless of the difference in sound - which is reported to be substantial with regard to the bottom end.  I guess I could buy the Arrow instead and save the $18 that the adapter would cost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  But, replies like the one below make me doubt the value of the Arrow over the Penguin on sound quality improvement alone.  Aesthetics and convenience may be the swing-vote.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zappp*
> 
> 
> In terms of sound quality I am pressed hard to hear a substantial improvement.


----------



## zappp

My Arrow is HE 1G.
   
  On longer train or air trips (with stop overs) it is nice not to carry spare batteries. iPod plus Arrow is just 1cm thick (glued together with double-sided tape) and easily slides into pockets in jackets or shirts. For iPod plus Penguin or Lyrix you need some kind of belt holster.
   
  I am sure that careful and repetitive ABing between Lyrix, Arrow 1G/2G will reveal some differences or even improvements.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





gnub said:


> Currently I am listening to (Sansa Fuze or Cowon D2) -> Penguin Caffeine -> ER4P   OR  PC USB -> Penguin DAC Cable -> Penguin Caffeine -> ER4P and am wondering whether substituting the Arrow 12HE for the Penguin would be "just about the same" or "nicely better" or "*WOW! that's what I have been missing*."  Both the Penguin and the Arrow use the same AD8397opamp and both are built by Robert.  The  feature count is higher on the 12HE but the Penguin has bass boost and hi / low gain switches.  The Penguin throws a pretty good soundstage and the ER4P's don't take much to drive and with the bass boost they have a decent bottom end.
> 
> Anyhoo, any opinions on what the degree of improvement might be and how the Arrow might be "Better"?


 

 No idea, never heard an Arrow.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





gnub said:


> Currently I am listening to (Sansa Fuze or Cowon D2) -> Penguin Caffeine -> ER4P   OR  PC USB -> Penguin DAC Cable -> Penguin Caffeine -> ER4P and am wondering whether substituting the Arrow 12HE for the Penguin would be "just about the same" or "nicely better" or "*WOW! that's what I have been missing*."  Both the Penguin and the Arrow use the same AD8397opamp and both are built by Robert.  The  feature count is higher on the 12HE but the Penguin has bass boost and hi / low gain switches.  The Penguin throws a pretty good soundstage and the ER4P's don't take much to drive and with the bass boost they have a decent bottom end.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhoo, any opinions on what the degree of improvement might be and how the Arrow might be "Better"?


 


  Funny handle. For what it's worth, you don't talk/write like one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It sounds like you're already hearing what you want. But the Arrow aesthetics are, undeniably, positive. The form factor is eye-popping when you see it and hold it for the first time. The well-implemented user friendly features are now criteria for any future portable purchase. If you're curious and suffering from upgraditis, there's only one "treatment" for that, and if you apply it, you won't be disappointed.


----------



## GnuB

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> If you're curious and suffering from upgraditis, there's only one "treatment" for that, and if you apply it, you won't be disappointed.


 
   
  "Upgradeitis".  Ha.  I once had a friend that wanted a motorcycle, found a 125cc and said to me "125cc is all you ever need.  I'm just going to ride it around town".  Within 2 years he was riding a 750.  Yeah, I battle with upgradeitis all the time.  It's an insidious disease. Having enjoyed the Penguin for a couple of years, I recently got the itch for something more esoteric (i.e. not in a mint tin) and bought a used Corda Move.  It hasn't arrived yet so I am anxious to hear if there is any difference / improvement.  
   
  Like the half Irishman and half Scotsman, who by nature liked his booze but was too frugal to pay for it, I also struggle with laying out the cash for every new toy that I take a fancy to.  By nature I have gadgetitis and thriftiness, hence the step into the used market.   It looks like Robert is backed up on orders for now, so I will keep in touch with the comments and feedback on the forum and see if my upgradeitis disease will go into remission.


----------



## GnuB

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> No idea, never heard an Arrow.


 
   
  Well then I vote that you get one right away and treat us one of your expert reviews! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
   
  If I remember right, it was your experience with the Penguin that persuaded me to go for it.  You certainly have the foundation for comparison that few others have with all of the amps you have listened to and commented on.  (So, how am I doing? Convinced yet?)


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> I noticed a change after about five to six hours of burn in. Since this five-six hour burn in I can't say I am able to notice any large change in sound.
> Possibly the sound is becoming more transparent, but that is all.


 

 The thing I noticed was the bass opening up I believe.  Before everything was at I or II for bass.   Now it's 0 or I.  Honestly, out of the box, 0 sounded like bass rolloff to me.
   
  @ zappp  Come on dude, the Arrow alone is like .75 cm.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

gnub said:


> Well then I vote that you get one right away and treat us one of your expert reviews!
> 
> 
> 
> ...






 I'm sure it's a good amp, but these days if the amp isn't as small as my Pico Slim or iBasso T3 I pretty much want it to have a DAC in it for use with my Macbook Pro instead of iPod


----------



## zappp

10.5mm + 8.5mm


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I'm sure it's a good amp, but these days if the amp isn't as small as my Pico Slim or iBasso T3 I pretty much want it to have a DAC in it for use with my Macbook Pro instead of iPod


 

 Kinda saying the Stepdance should have a DAC, no?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Form factor wise, don't you think the Arrow is a better match for an iPod than the slim or T3?  The arrow is thinner than both and smaller than the iPod every other way.


----------



## MrProggie




----------



## Anaxilus

Deleted due to ineptitude.


----------



## MrProggie

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Classics? No, it's a Sansa Fuze.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> Classics? No, it's a Sansa Fuze.


 

 Lol, I thought I lost my mind.


----------



## jendol

Quote: 





straden said:


> I ordered 2~3 weeks ago, and I got reply from headphonia that it will be shipped this month (october) , so you would be in similar boat or little later.


 
   
  if this is true then I would be so happy


----------



## Mediaogre

@ Anaxilus and Zappp. Measurebaters.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> @ Anaxilus and Zappp. Measurebaters.


 

 All I know is mine is longer than HPA's.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Kinda saying the Stepdance should have a DAC, no?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, I wish it had a DAC.  
   
  I'd have to look at the Arrow measurements, but the Slim and T3 are about as thin as anything I can imagine for portable.  And the Arrow is bigger than my 3G/5G Nanos that I use with the Slim and T3.  If I was pairing only with a Classic, Touch or iPhone then the Arrow's extra width and depth wouldn't matter because it's still very thin.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Yeah, I wish it had a DAC.
> 
> I'd have to look at the Arrow measurements, but the Slim and T3 are about as thin as anything I can imagine for portable.  And the Arrow is bigger than my 3G/5G Nanos that I use with the Slim and T3.  If I was pairing only with a Classic, Touch or iPhone then the Arrow's extra width and depth wouldn't matter because it's still very thin.


 

 Ah!  Nano user.  Gotcha.  For me, thinness is starting to be the number one dimension for portability unless I use a clip.  Tired of fat gear on the go.  Although you some play w/ interconnects if you need it.


----------



## SoulSyde

I want!!


----------



## Somnambulist

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> I want!!


 


  Me too! I think I'm going to exercise logic and restraint though, as upgrading my IEMS is more important and should take priority! After than I can come back to this...


----------



## jfindon

Is it worth even getting this if all I have is a Clip+ at the moment?  I haven't found a suitable replacement to my Zune yet.


----------



## dfkt

I guess the SR-225 could benefit from a bit more power than the Clip+ can deliver. If that is what you're using with the Clip+, judging by your sig.
   
  Form-factor-wise it's of course a rather bad match, considering the sizes of the player and the amp.


----------



## jfindon

Yep, those are what I'm using.  I think I noticed a decent improvement when I used my LittleDot amp with the Clip+, but it was awhile ago so I can't be sure.  I guess I need to find a new "full time" player instead of just my workout player.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





somnambulist said:


> Me too! I think I'm going to exercise logic and restraint though, as upgrading my IEMS is more important and should take priority! After than I can come back to this...


 


  Me too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  That darn logic restraint gets me every time.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





jfindon said:


> Is it worth even getting this if all I have is a Clip+ at the moment?  I haven't found a suitable replacement to my Zune yet.


 


  Thought I'd chime in being a long-time Zune 80 user. I finally benched my Zune (after supplementing with a Clip+ for lossless/gapless) and picked up Cowon's J3 32 GB and I'm loving it. In the spirit of staying on topic, I'll refer you to the J3 impressions thread and mention that the J3+Arrow pairing and form factor mating is near perfect.
   
  Dfkt's right about the Clip+Arrow form factor match. It looks like a miniature flatbed truck, but it sounds great and is light as hell.


----------



## jfindon

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Thought I'd chime in being a long-time Zune 80 user. I finally benched my Zune (after supplementing with a Clip+ for lossless/gapless) and picked up Cowon's J3 32 GB and I'm loving it. In the spirit of staying on topic, I'll refer you to the J3 impressions thread and mention that the J3+Arrow pairing and form factor mating is near perfect.
> 
> Dfkt's right about the Clip+Arrow form factor match. It looks like a miniature flatbed truck, but it sounds great and is light as hell.


 

 That's actually the device I keep looking at, but the price is way too high for what you get in my opinion (at least when the 32GB ZuneHD is what, $50 less?).  Been waiting for a deal on one but none pop up.  If I could see it in person I may go for it, but no stores carry it that I know of.
   
  I'll get caught up with that thread again, I was reading it for awhile.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





jfindon said:


> That's actually the device I keep looking at, but the price is way too high for what you get in my opinion (at least when the 32GB ZuneHD is what, $50 less?).  Been waiting for a deal on one but none pop up.  If I could see it in person I may go for it, but no stores carry it that I know of.


 

 I know what you mean, but I don't think the Zune HD compares. PM sent.


----------



## Somnambulist

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Me too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Got to be rational. Especially when working with a tight budget! Priorities e.t.c.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





somnambulist said:


> Got to be rational. Especially when working with a tight budget! Priorities e.t.c.


 

 I know all about those "priorities," ours is almost 7 months old now.


----------



## jendol

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Yeah, I wish it had a DAC.
> 
> I'd have to look at the Arrow measurements, but the Slim and T3 are about as thin as anything I can imagine for portable.  And the Arrow is bigger than my 3G/5G Nanos that I use with the Slim and T3.  If I was pairing only with a Classic, Touch or iPhone then the Arrow's extra width and depth wouldn't matter because it's still very thin.


 


   there are other options for dac and dac/amp combos, ttvj slim (dac/amp) would be good fit in terms of form and size to ipod classic and touch, I think he12 would be good fit but without DAC


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> I know all about those "priorities," ours is almost 7 months old now.


 

 HAHA! Congrats, SoulSyde. Littles Head-fi'ers in training. BTW - one of my "priorities" just lost her DS.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> HAHA! Congrats, SoulSyde. Littles Head-fi'ers in training. BTW - one of my "priorities" just lost her DS.


 

 Thanks!  Head-Fi'er in the making for sure.  I'm already tucking away some of my downgraded gear for "future use."


----------



## rehabitat

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Thanks!  Head-Fi'er in the making for sure.  I'm already tucking away some of my downgraded gear for "future use."


 

 LOL!  Ahhh...you're a good man.  I totally empathise with your sentiment.  I'm building a system for my 14 year old and I also have a 16-month-old precocious 'priority' myself, not to mention another one in the oven already!
   
  Btw the 14 y/o destroyed his 1st gen DS a while ago in a temper tantrum, and his mother allowed him to buy another almost immediately.  We are quite powerless in the face of modern consumerism....
   
  Just to stay on-topic, I should mention that my Arrow's input and output jacks have been unreliable of late.  I have tried cleaning them several times but to little avail.  Time for a trade-in methinks.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> We are quite powerless in the face of modern consumerism....


 


  Quite a tough problem these days.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> I should mention that my Arrow's input and output jacks have been unreliable of late.  I have tried cleaning them several times but to little avail.


 


  I'm really interested in this amp.  Feature-wise it has everything I want in a portable amp.
   
  This however concerns me.  Has anyone else experienced this problem or is an isolated incident?


----------



## dfkt

No issues with my Arrow's jacks whatsoever. I had it for quite some time now.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> No issues with my Arrow's jacks whatsoever. I had it for quite some time now.


 


  Thanks DFKT.  I was hoping you would chime in.  I read your review on ABI a while back - well done by the way.


----------



## rehabitat

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> I'm really interested in this amp.  Feature-wise it has everything I want in a portable amp.
> 
> This however concerns me.  Has anyone else experienced this problem or is an isolated incident?


 


  Don't get me wrong, it's a great amp.  I suspect my case may be isolated as I tend to be a bit hard on my portable gear, although I have never had the same issue with any other gear.  There are a lot of things I dislike about my ipod, but it must be the toughest piece of kit around.
   
  I've been sitting on this issue for a while but I thought I should mention it.  When I opened up the case to inspect the assembly I noticed that the jacks are stuck down with some kind of soft white cement and they are easy to move around a little.  Try plugging in your headphones without the case on and you'll see what I mean.  It's a bit worrying but obviously it is not meant to be used in this way.  I do feel, however, that the jacks should be more securely fixed, but this may present other issues, e.g. cracking the board.
   
  It would be appreciated if anyone else has any comments about this.


----------



## Mediaogre

@ SoulSyde - I've had mine since February. No issues.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> No issues with my Arrow's jacks whatsoever. I had it for quite some time now.


 

 Whoops...I mean X3


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> Don't get me wrong, it's a great amp.  I suspect my case may be isolated as I tend to be a bit hard on my portable gear, although I have never had the same issue with any other gear.  There are a lot of things I dislike about my ipod, but it must be the toughest piece of kit around.
> I've been sitting on this issue for a while but I thought I should mention it.  When I opened up the case to inspect the assembly I noticed that the jacks are stuck down with some kind of soft white cement and they are easy to move around a little.  Try plugging in your headphones without the case on and you'll see what I mean.  It's a bit worrying but obviously it is not meant to be used in this way.  I do feel, however, that the jacks should be more securely fixed, but this may present other issues, e.g. cracking the board.
> 
> It would be appreciated if anyone else has any comments about this.


 

 Is yours the new 2nd gen Arrow?  If so, Robert has posted on his site http://www.headphonia.org/forums/showpost.php?p=705&postcount=63 that he had to re-solder EVERY input/output jack by hand due to the PCB manufacturer screwing up. I'd email him or ask here: http://www.headphonia.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8 about your problem as I'm sure it is most likely an isolated incident he would be quick to remedy.


----------



## rehabitat

Thanks for the heads up. I will contact him about it, however mine is the 1st gen 12he. I've had it since April.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I will contact him about it, however mine is the 1st gen 12he. I've had it since April.


 

 I emailed Robert about your post as you had me concerned. Here is his reply:
   
   
  [size=11pt]The circuit board must be in the case otherwise he may break it. The end panels are fixed on the jacks with white rubber and not the other way around. The new PCB supplier doesn’t have to do with this design. The end panels are fixed with this white rubber so that the end panels can be removed and exchanged for the new ones. [/size]


----------



## rehabitat

I can't believe you did that.  Have you no respect?  It does not matter whether or not you named names; Robert is an astute individual and now his view of my issue will _likely_ be coloured by your message to him.
   
  How could you be so selfish?  I regret that I ever mentioned it, and too late realise the deep reason that I was sitting on this issue.  I should have notified Robert long ago.
   
  My bad, in the end.  I have been a fool.  Another lesson in internet 'etiquette' for me, that's for sure.
   
  Once it's out there you can never take it back.  The old double-edged sword.
   
  I apologise for any alarm I have caused to anyone but I prefer to be open about stuff.


----------



## straden

anyone able compare this to ttvj slim or pico slim?
  I'm still waiting on mine but every time I look at ttvj slim / pico slim thread. I question myself if I made right choice LOL


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





straden said:


> anyone able compare this to ttvj slim or pico slim?
> I'm still waiting on mine but every time I look at ttvj slim / pico slim thread. I question myself if I made right choice LOL


 


  Personally, I can't but there have been some comparisons. Someone on here had both the slim and the Arrow at one point and liked them for different applications I think. Be sure to check out dfkt's in-depth review at ABI. You can't go wrong with the Arrow, bud. Insane quality (build and sound) and features for the price and form factor. You'd be hard pressed to find another portable amp as versatile - if that's what you want. Versatility was a criteria for me. With the impedance and gain configuration options, you can pair the Arrow comfortably with headphones ranging from sensitive 16 ohm IEMs to 300 ohm cans. Hang tight. You made the right choice.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Personally, I can't but there have been some comparisons. Someone on here had both the slim and the Arrow at one point and liked them for different applications I think. Be sure to check out dfkt's in-depth review at ABI. You can't go wrong with the Arrow, bud. Insane quality (build and sound) and features for the price and form factor. You'd be hard pressed to find another portable amp as versatile - if that's what you want. Versatility was a criteria for me. With the impedance and gain configuration options, you can pair the Arrow comfortably with headphones ranging from sensitive 16 ohm IEMs to 300 ohm cans. Hang tight. You made the right choice.


 

 Yeah, I keep eyeing potential upgrades and pondering selling the Arrow but the size and versatility is unmatched.  The feature set and performance is making it indispensable for my needs.  This is like a must have in the inventory.  Two well powered outputs for flights and travelling w/ a companion is fantastic too!


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> I can't believe you did that.  Have you no respect?  It does not matter whether or not you named names; Robert is an astute individual and now his view of my issue will _likely_ be coloured by your message to him.
> 
> How could you be so selfish?  I regret that I ever mentioned it, and too late realise the deep reason that I was sitting on this issue.  I should have notified Robert long ago.
> 
> ...


 

 In my humble opinion I don't know if either of you did anything wrong.  Talking about music gear, whether it's based on price, performance, aesthetics and/or quality control is the reason this forum exists. 
   
  I don't think this thread would hurt his company image.  Any manufacturing process has to assume some form of failure.  It's only if these incidents rise to more than the "occasional incident" that there is cause for alarm.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> In my humble opinion I don't know if either of you did anything wrong.  Talking about music gear, whether it's based on price, performance, aesthetics and/or quality control is the reason this forum exists.
> 
> I don't think this thread would hurt his company image.  Any manufacturing process has to assume some form of failure.  It's only if these incidents rise to more than the "occasional incident" that there is cause for alarm.


 

 SoulSyde, I'm sure our Canadian and Australian pals will chime in, but I think Rehabitat's concern is he feels it was presumptuous of Hellenback to translate and present his issue directly to Rob. He would have preferred to present it himself (and is kicking himself now). As a result, it's possible Rob has a skewed perception of the issue and/or Rehabitat's conduct with regard to device care.
   
  Hellenback always has the best intentions in mind, but we all know where that metaphorical road sometimes leads. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know she meant well this time, but I definitely see Rehabitat's point. Let's smooth this out, folks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I agree with you on the company image standpoint, SoulSyde. Anyone who owns one - issue or not - can see, touch, and verify the attention to detail and care that Rob puts into his product. And anyone who follows his support forum knows he's agonizing over all the right details, quality matters, and continues to improve both the product and his customer service posture.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> I can't believe you did that.  Have you no respect?  It does not matter whether or not you named names; Robert is an astute individual and now his view of my issue will _likely_ be coloured by your message to him.
> 
> How could you be so selfish?  I regret that I ever mentioned it, and too late realise the deep reason that I was sitting on this issue.  I should have notified Robert long ago.
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry to offend, I was just trying to address an issue. You mentioned a potential problem so I inquired about it and got an answer. This is a public forum and if Robert had the mind to he could have read your post himself!  You are right about one thing, once it's out there it's out there so the sooner it's cleared up the better.


----------



## warrior05

One thing I will chime in here in regards to the Pico Slim.  It is an impressive little (and I emphasize - little) amp.  However, it does not have the juice to power full sized headphones that are 32ohm on up.  For that reason, I sold mine off.  I use my portable set up with headphones as much as earphones.  This is why I've got an Arrow on order.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





warrior05 said:


> One thing I will chime in here in regards to the Pico Slim.  It is an impressive little (and I emphasize - little) amp.  However, it does not have the juice to power full sized headphones that are 32ohm on up.  For that reason, I sold mine off.  I use my portable set up with headphones as much as earphones.  This is why I've got an Arrow on order.


 

 Wow, thx for the input.  So the Pico Slim wouldn't even bring out the best of a standard Grado?  That's some pertinent information there.


----------



## rehabitat

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> SoulSyde, I'm sure our Canadian and Australian pals will chime in, but I think Rehabitat's concern is he feels it was presumptuous of Hellenback to translate and present his issue directly to Rob. He would have preferred to present it himself (and is kicking himself now). As a result, it's possible Rob has a skewed perception of the issue and/or Rehabitat's conduct with regard to device care.
> 
> Hellenback always has the best intentions in mind, but we all know where that metaphorical road sometimes leads.
> 
> ...


 

 As always buddy, you've hit it on the head.

  
  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Sorry to offend, I was just trying to address an issue. You mentioned a potential problem so I inquired about it and got an answer. This is a public forum and if Robert had the mind to he could have read your post himself!  You are right about one thing, once it's out there it's out there so the sooner it's cleared up the better.


 

 No worries, but you really should mind your own beeswax.  I'll know better next time.
   
  You have reminded me why I canned my Facebook account.  In many ways it is the death of 'real' communication, not to mention another compromise to personal privacy.


----------



## warrior05

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Wow, thx for the input.  So the Pico Slim wouldn't even bring out the best of a standard Grado?  That's some pertinent information there.


 

 Don't get me wrong.  My RS-1s sounded pretty good but I was near max volume and I tend to listen at lower than typical volume settings.  It just had no room.  If you are an IEM only user?  Pico Slim is a gem of an amp.


----------



## grokit

Maybe the Pico Slim II will have a gain switch, lol


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Maybe the Pico Slim II will have a gain switch, lol


 

 It does, it's called the Arrow?


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> It does, it's called the Arrow?


 


  LOL


----------



## Mediaogre

@ Anaxilus, warrior5 - Wow, pertinent information indeed! The Pico Slim is hard pressed to properly drive a 32 ohm Grado? Did I read that correctly? All the continuing respect and praise for the Arrow justifies all that comparison shopping from a year ago. If I'd gotten an RSA product, I'd likely have buyer's remorse. Pico Slim? More remorse and lack of versatility. I'm about a year out from being able to convince the Household Committee that I need a desktop tube amp. Until then, the Arrow will continue as the workhorse. "I love it when a plan comes together."


----------



## warrior05

"...properly drive a 32 ohm Grado..." is certainly subjective.  As I mentioned, my RS-1s sounded very nice indeed through the Pico Slim but at reasonable listening levels, the volume was at 2/3.  It all depends on the intended use if the Slim suits one's needs.  There are a number of us that primarily listen via earphones when using a portable set-up.  For those, the Slim is a terrific option.  Trying to use the Slim to properly drive greater than 32 ohm headphones is not what it was intended to do so it shouldn't be considered a lesser amp because of it.  I think I'm somewhat of a minority in that I use my portable set-up more at home than on the road.  I like to be able to go into any room in my house and carry with me a quality source and amp to drive any of my ear and headphones.  I have been using my iMod/Pico for this purpose and has performed admirably.  But my Pico is showing its age and I'm having some issues with it that I am getting in touch with Headamp about.  The Arrow will replace my Pico at least for now till it is fixed.  I do like the lower profile of the Arrow so if I like its sound then I may sell off my Pico or use it with some other source.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





warrior05 said:


> "...properly drive a 32 ohm Grado..." is certainly subjective.  As I mentioned, my RS-1s sounded very nice indeed through the Pico Slim but at reasonable listening levels, the volume was at 2/3.  It all depends on the intended use if the Slim suits one's needs.  There are a number of us that primarily listen via earphones when using a portable set-up.  For those, the Slim is a terrific option.  Trying to use the Slim to properly drive greater than 32 ohm headphones is not what it was intended to do so it shouldn't be considered a lesser amp because of it.  I think I'm somewhat of a minority in that I use my portable set-up more at home than on the road.  I like to be able to go into any room in my house and carry with me a quality source and amp to drive any of my ear and headphones.  I have been using my iMod/Pico for this purpose and has performed admirably.  But my Pico is showing its age and I'm having some issues with it that I am getting in touch with Headamp about.  The Arrow will replace my Pico at least for now till it is fixed.  I do like the lower profile of the Arrow so if I like its sound then I may sell off my Pico or use it with some other source.


 


  I agree. "Properly" is, certainly, subjective. I was generalizing with a nod to us louder listeners. I'm in your camp with regard to portable setup use. I sit on the couch or my office chair with my Arrow and HD650s all the time. During my research phase, if I hadn't factored in a future headphones purchase, I would have gone for the Slim and I wouldn't have blamed it for my poor planning once I got more demanding phones. I don't doubt it would have been great with my IEMs. I just required an option that was more versatile. <<<KEY word when describing the Arrow.


----------



## Hellenback

.


----------



## warrior05

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> ... I just required an option that was more versatile. <<<KEY word when describing the Arrow.


 

 Agreed.  That is why I love my Pico.  Drives both my fav earphones as well as my fav headphones - DT990/600.  To get that kind of versatility in such a thin package like the Arrow is certainly appealing.  Looking forward to receiving mine.


----------



## Party

[size=12pt]Hey guys I have a couple of questions:[/size]

 [size=12pt]What is the purpose of the two headphone jacks? (Do people really use two headphone jacks at the same time (I guess it makes it easy for a friend to listen to the same tunes), will that decrease the power output that goes to each headphone???)[/size]
 [size=12pt]What is the total power output of the Headstage Arrow 12HE 2G (High Efficiency)? (more than the pico slim?)[/size]
 [size=12pt]Last question is kind of specific, does this amp work well when used with a headphone jack output instead of the more preferred Line-out, specifically the Cowon J3 (why does Cowon not just put a line-out in?)[/size]
  [size=12pt]Thanks guys[/size]
  [size=12pt]            Getting really close to putting in an order for this, what sounds like an awesome amp![/size]


----------



## rehabitat

Look, I accepted your apology, but I added that comment because you utterly failed to acknowledge any inappropriate actions on your part.  Moreover, you tried to justify those actions, so from that I inferred that your apology was quite reserved.
   
  I understand why you contacted Robert, however it would have been polite to ask me first.  Unfortunately you chose to ignore a very basic standard of good conduct.
   
  Apologies to all for my rants.
  
  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> One more parting jab after an apology....classy.


----------



## Blackwheel

He didn't do anything wrong, _*unless he named you specifically*._ This is a public thread and its purpose is to help potential customers decide whether or not they want to spend the $265 on this amp. You pointed out a problem you experienced with the product, and he, being a potential customer, investigated the issue further, utilizing the thread in the way it was intended for him to utilize. 
  Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> Look, I accepted your apology, but I added that comment because you utterly failed to acknowledge any inappropriate actions on your part.  Moreover, you tried to justify those actions, so from that I inferred that your apology was quite reserved.
> 
> I understand why you contacted Robert, however it would have been polite to ask me first.  Unfortunately you chose to ignore a very basic standard of good conduct.
> 
> Apologies to all for my rants.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





party said:


> [size=12pt]Hey guys I have a couple of questions:[/size]
> 
> [size=12pt]What is the purpose of the two headphone jacks? (Do people really use two headphone jacks at the same time (I guess it makes it easy for a friend to listen to the same tunes), will that decrease the power output that goes to each headphone???)[/size]
> [size=12pt]What is the total power output of the Headstage Arrow 12HE 2G (High Efficiency)? (more than the pico slim?)[/size]
> ...


 

 Party, good questions.
   
  1. Orientation. Two outs provide greater flexibility and options when pairing with DAPs. You'd have to ask Rob about power distribution, but I'd say yes _and_ no and that ties to question 2...
  2. Variable voltage from 4V to 12V as needed. Back to 1. so, if you have two sets of IEMs plugged in and each require only 4V, it stands to reason the Arrow would output 8V total. With more demanding cans... you get the idea. 12V total output is 12V.
  3. Yes, it works wonderfully with HOs. I've stopped worrying about the elusive and overrated LO (And I won't buy an iPod - period). The J3 has an excellent and powerful (29mW stereo) output. Don't worry about a "true" LO. You'll love the pairing of the J3 and the Arrow.


----------



## rehabitat

Now I am being taken out of context.  She has one already actually and has done for longer that the rest of us.
   
  I know I am annoying you (and probably others too) but I am not responsible for your emotional response.
   
  I can see that you are new to this thread, and/or you haven't read it properly.
   
  I don't want to drag anyone else into this and I don't want to waste any more of my or anyone else's time, so I'll not breath another word on the matter.
   
  Quote: 





blackwheel said:


> He didn't do anything wrong, _*unless he named you specifically*._ This is a public thread and its purpose is to help potential customers decide whether or not they want to spend the $265 on this amp. You pointed out a problem you experienced with the product, and he, being a potential customer, investigated the issue further, utilizing the thread in the way it was intended for him to utilize.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





party said:


> [size=12pt]Hey guys I have a couple of questions:[/size]
> 
> [size=12pt]What is the purpose of the two headphone jacks? (Do people really use two headphone jacks at the same time (I guess it makes it easy for a friend to listen to the same tunes), will that decrease the power output that goes to each headphone???[/size]


 

 The power does dip just a smidge but you have pleeenty left over unless you are driving 2 HD650s lol.  I have 3 uses for the dual outputs.
   
  1- Friends
  2-A/B
  3-listening to one phone and burning in another.


----------



## warrior05

Personally, I'm looking forward to the two HOs.  I love to do A/B comparisons.
   
  As for the LO vs HO?  Especially since I have an iMod, LO obviously, but I tend to recommend this generally.  The LO signal offers a less colored signal than HO.  It is an amp that is driving the HO and we all know how amps can bring their own sound sig to the party.  I rather leave that to an external amp and the 'phones they are driving.


----------



## Party

Thanks guys for all the input!
   
  For the second question, can the power be described as mW? because it seems that most every other company describes it like this:
  [size=small][size=small]250mW+250mW into 32. Everyone says the arrow has tons of power, so I would like to compare and just seem how much more etc.... Sorry if this is a dumb question..[/size][/size]


----------



## wuwhere

Not "Tons" of power, more like "micro-Tons". Also that rating is usually at 1kHz. Now it depends on the nominal impedance of your hp and its efficiency. The lower the impedance, the higher the current the amp has to provide, the higher the impedance the higher the voltage the hp has to deliver.
  
  Quote: 





party said:


> Thanks guys for all the input!
> 
> For the second question, can the power be described as mW? because it seems that most every other company describes it like this:
> [size=small][size=small]250mW+250mW into 32. Everyone says the arrow has tons of power, so I would like to compare and just seem how much more etc.... Sorry if this is a dumb question..[/size][/size]


----------



## Party

[size=10pt]Don't want to go off topic, but what is the best way to compare power output then? Is it by volts? pico 4v and Arrow have variable 4v and 12v, 12v being more, so more power..???[/size]
  [size=10pt]So then is it just best to use the arrow at the full 12v to get the best performance? and 4v if you want to conserve power or have a headset that does not need/benefit much from the 12v?[/size]
  [size=10pt]Thanks again! [/size]


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





party said:


> [size=10pt]Don't want to go off topic, but what is the best way to compare power output then? Is it by volts? pico 4v and Arrow have variable 4v and 12v, 12v being more, so more power..???[/size]
> [size=10pt]So then is it just best to use the arrow at the full 12v to get the best performance? and 4v if you want to conserve power or have a headset that does not need/benefit much from the 12v?[/size]
> [size=10pt]Thanks again! [/size]


 

  
  Not to get uber-technical here, but Power = Watts.  In terms of electromagnetism (which applies to headphones and speakers) Volts and Amperes are what make a Watt (the formula is W = VA).  
   
  You can have an amplifier with high voltage and low amperage that can have the same power (or wattage) as a amplifier with low voltage and high amperage.
   
  So in order to describe Power you need both volts and amperes and then you can determine what the wattage is.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





party said:


> [size=10pt]Don't want to go off topic, but what is the best way to compare power output then? Is it by volts? pico 4v and Arrow have variable 4v and 12v, 12v being more, so more power..???[/size]
> [size=10pt]So then is it just best to use the arrow at the full 12v to get the best performance? and 4v if you want to conserve power or have a headset that does not need/benefit much from the 12v?[/size]
> [size=10pt]Thanks again! [/size]


 


  Party, the only indication you'll receive with regard to voltage output on the Arrow is battery life. It's variable output so it's *mostly* transparent to the user.


----------



## Party

[size=10pt]Hmm interesting so how/why does everyone know/say this is a powerful amp and can power most full size cans? Just by the reviews and experience?[/size]


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





party said:


> [size=10pt]Hmm interesting so how/why does everyone know/say this is a powerful amp and can power most full size cans? Just by the reviews and experience?[/size]


 


  Dude, you're showing the early symptoms of analysis paralysis. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Arrow is first and foremost a portable amp. That distinction alone usually carries with it a certain level of restriction. However, the Arrow specifications and web site copy claim it can easily power full-sized cans up to 300 Ohm - which is a bold an impressive claim. I and many others can vouch for that claim.


----------



## Hellenback

> [size=10pt]Hmm interesting so how/why does everyone know/say this is a powerful amp and can power most full size cans? Just by the reviews and experience?[/size]


 


  personal experience with HD650s....(I think searching/reading portions of this thread would have answered your question).


----------



## Party

[size=10pt]Wow, analysis paralysis is an actual thing (It’s in Wikipedia). I think you are right, I tend to analysis/over-analysis like a mother-fo, well I think it is all part of being an audiophile. Thanks for everyone’s help and putting up with my “analysis paralysis”, I think before anything else comes up I should just go ahead and hit the purchase button!   Thanks again! (Thanks Mediaogre f[size=10pt]or diagnosing me, I will see about getting help)[/size][/size]


----------



## MrProggie

This amp rocks with my HD650s. At gain 2 I am able to turn the volume wheel up to two thirds of max volume before it sounds too loud.


----------



## dfkt

The Arrow is certainly the most versatile amp I've ever tried, no matter if portable or stationary. No other one can drive the HD650 to full quality, and at the same time drive ultra-sensitive multi-armature IEMs like the UE11, SE530, SM3 without any hiss or frequency response issues. The Arrow sure puts quite a lot of the competition to shame...


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> The Arrow is certainly the most versatile amp I've ever tried, no matter if portable or stationary. No other one can drive the HD650 to full quality, and at the same time drive ultra-sensitive multi-armature IEMs like the UE11, SE530, SM3 without any hiss or frequency response issues. The Arrow sure puts quite a lot of the competition to shame...


 

 DFKT, have you ever tried any of the RSA amps, in particular the P-51 or Hornet?  I've heard that either of these can easily handle 600 Ohms.
   
  Sorry for the thread jack.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





party said:


> [size=10pt]Wow, analysis paralysis is an actual thing (It’s in Wikipedia). I think you are right, I tend to analysis/over-analysis like a mother-fo, well I think it is all part of being an audiophile. Thanks for everyone’s help and putting up with my “analysis paralysis”, I think before anything else comes up I should just go ahead and hit the purchase button!   Thanks again! (Thanks Mediaogre f[size=10pt]or diagnosing me, I will see about getting help)[/size][/size]


 


  Any time, Party. It takes one to know one (he mumbles from the sofa).


----------



## Qonad

I'm hooking up my SM3 to the Arrow amp gen 2 from my Cowon J3's HO but i dont hear any major improvements.
   
  Is this normal?


----------



## warrior05

Quote: 





qonad said:


> I'm hooking up my SM3 to the Arrow amp gen 2 from my Cowon J3's HO but i dont hear any major improvements.
> 
> Is this normal?


 

 A few things:  Your post reads like you hooked everything up, sat down, queued up a track or two and were expecting to be totally wowed.  With this crazy hobby, you reach a point where improvements in SQ are subtle.  You need to acclimate to new equipment not to mention letting said equipment settle/burn in.  Amps can take some time before they reach their full potential.
   
  Another thing, I wrote before but will re-emphasize, I am just not a fan of feeding an amp from the HO.  You are feeding an amp with a signal that is dependent on the quality of the HO which imbues its own sound.  Typically, the point of throwing an amp into the mix is to improve upon what typically is an inferior built in HO.  Thus, feed it from the LO.  From what I'm reading here (still waiting on mine), the Arrow is a pretty transparent amp.  Feeding it from the J3 HO means you are going to hear the sound sig of the HO.  Now, I'm not saying if you do hook it up from the J3's LO will be like night and day - note my previous point - but at least you will be hearing more of the amp and not the J3.
   
  Give yourself time to acclimate to the Arrow.  I usually don't pass final judgement on an amp till at least 100 hours but that's me.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





qonad said:


> I'm hooking up my SM3 to the Arrow amp gen 2 from my Cowon J3's HO but i dont hear any major improvements.
> 
> Is this normal?


 

 2 things:
   
  1-SM3 benefits from amping the least of the high end universal IEMs out there.
   
  2-The Cowon HO is probably starving your Arrow and SM3 of detail.  
   
  Source might have been the biggest bottleneck in your situation, not power.


----------



## dfkt

Cowon's headphone outputs are just fine. They might display some bass roll-off with low impedance phones in graphs, but I don't really hear it. They have very low output impedance, so multi-armature crossovers don't mess up with a Cowon. Line-outs are totally overrated.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Cowon's headphone outputs are just fine. They might display some bass roll-off with low impedance phones in graphs, but I don't really hear it. They have very low output impedance, so multi-armature crossovers don't mess up with a Cowon. Line-outs are totally overrated.


 

 In what way are Line-outs overrated?  I can plug in my headphones from HO and swap to LO and hear improvement.  Is this one of those 'carrying around an amp is not worth the improvement' arguments?  It makes no sense to me to listen to an inferior sounding output when a better one is right next to it.  Then again, if you have to use a Sansa I can sympathize.


----------



## dfkt

If one "has to use" (as you put it) a player with a flawed headphone-out, then one should certainly hope that the manufacturer at least got the line-out right.
   
  Since most reputable manufacturer's players I've tried aren't overly flawed that way, and an amp takes any load off the headphone-out anyways, you're generally good to go without a line-out. Of course this only goes for players from reputable manufacturers, since some 'exotic' players are flawed on purpose, for that special 'flavor' of sound, whatever that's supposed to be.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> In what way are Line-outs overrated?  I can plug in my headphones from HO and swap to LO and hear improvement.  Is this one of those 'carrying around an amp is not worth the improvement' arguments?  It makes no sense to me to listen to an inferior sounding output when a better one is right next to it.  Then again, if you have to use a Sansa I can sympathize.


 

 I "have" to use my Clip+ in the server room today (And I'll be perfectly happy)... so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on you.


----------



## The Larch

I use the "line out" from my H120 but it is just a headphone out. It sounds just fine to me.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





the larch said:


> I use the "line out" from my H120 but it is just a headphone out. It sounds just fine to me.


 


  While it appears to function exactly as another headphone out, according to the schematic, it is a line-out with digitally controlled volume.


----------



## grokit

So what is the deal with the line out on devices like my Nokia 5800? It's the same physical port as the headphone out. When you insert a mini-plug into it, you have to make a software selection: line out or headphones. The thing is, the line out is still attenuated by the volume control and the volume level seems the same for both selections. Is this particular "line out" a gimmick?


----------



## Party

[size=medium]Ok it has been done after hours upon hours of research the Arrow has been purchased! I think you all will be interested that the LisaIII was also a contender in my search for the greatest portable amp, but like the others I could not find enough evidence/pros to even get me to buy that over the Arrow! (If anyone has heard the LisaIII and the Arrow and wants to add any input, I would still be interested in what you have to say) (Look at me, I still can’t stop)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. So in short thanks again for everyone’s input, now it sounds like I have quite the wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size]


----------



## s1rrah

Yes. Friend. You have quite the wait. I'm anxiously awaiting the delivery of my own Arrow amp ... shipped about 10 days ago ... any second now! (four months!) ... SHWEW!! ... I don't even really care much about the new OPAMP that the builder is touting ... I could care less about POWER ON Pops ... All my portable stuff Pops when powering on. I kind of like that, actually.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





party said:


> [size=medium]Ok it has been done after hours upon hours of research the Arrow has been purchased! I think you all will be interested that the LisaIII was also a contender in my search for the greatest portable amp, but like the others I could not find enough evidence/pros to even get me to buy that over the Arrow! (If anyone has heard the LisaIII and the Arrow and wants to add any input, I would still be interested in what you have to say) (Look at me, I still can’t stop)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Right on, Party. You may not have to wait as long as the March-through-August orders folks. I just read through the support thread at headphonia.org and Rob said he has some new assistants.


----------



## dizzyraider

Lets hope so, but the July batch has yet to be shipped. While waiting for this amp, I almost pulled the trigger on buying a desktop amp with bass control. I really hope it gets here before I feeling the urge to buy another amp...


----------



## straden

so my order # is 2706 and its not shipped out yet...
  I guess I will be getting this new opamp ?
  hopefully, it didn't degrade the SQ of arrow!


----------



## dannytang

Yours is a long ways away from being shipped, Rob is currently shipping the 2400-2500 series orders I believe. And according to Rob the new opamp doesn't degrade the SQ.
  
  Quote: 





straden said:


> so my order # is 2706 and its not shipped out yet...
> I guess I will be getting this new opamp ?
> hopefully, it didn't degrade the SQ of arrow!


----------



## straden

I asked him about 2 weeks ago, he said my order would be shipped in October, but I guess it maybe delay more?
  oh well, hopefully before thanksgiving then...


----------



## dizzyraider

Robert mentioned that the opamp change in the 2.1 version sounds the same, the only difference is that it no longer makes a popping sound when you turn on the amp (through your headphones). BTW as a reference, I'm in the early 2500s and my status has yet to change...


----------



## pinoyman

hi... does anyone know how can i use this hadstage arrow amp with my ipod classic 120gig?
  does it change the sound signature of my iem?
  does it helps boost the sound of a monster MILES Davis tributes?
   
  please help...


----------



## Madgravity34

I have been using my Arrow for about a month now (2g) and I have to say, it is a fairly neutral amp. It may slightly emphasize the mids, but I find overall that I really like the combination with my UM3X and Ipod Classic. I just can't wait to try them with my DIYmod + Twisted cables SPC LOD. I would say that YMMV depending on how much the monsters improve with amping. From what I have heard, the UM3X actually benefits more than other low-impedance IEMS.
   
  Essentially you will need 1 thing: A Line Out Dock. You Can go cheap or moderate or expensive depending on your acoustic preferences and your budget.
   
  Expect:
  1. Improved clarity and impact in the treble
  2. Wider soundstage
  3. Tighter, more defined bass
  4. (This depends on your IEMS) My UM3X hiss slightly from the ipod classic HO, but using the Arrow I find the background (on default gain) to be very black, which makes quiet music such as classical, jazz, or
      ambient sounds much better


----------



## Mediaogre

^^ _Excellent_ response and information. Now_ that's_ what this thread and forum are about. And I agree with your sonic-related comments. With regard to IEMs, The Arrow actually helped my SE530s quite a bit, but I don't really consider them low impedance (36 Ohm?) for IEMs.


----------



## Anaxilus

The MDs are not really lower impedance at all.  They like juice no doubt about it.  I love the Arrow w/ the MD and the bass boost on it just adds to the versatility of the MDs.  You have nothing to fear going Arrow to MD and a lot to gain.


----------



## pinoyman

thank you very much to everyone here...
  been happy and glad to your comments and this community is really addictive.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote:  





> ... this community is really addictive.


 


  Just wait, you haven't seen the half of it yet!  Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## AndyT87

worth getting one of these to use with ipod touch 4g and shure se535?. my thinking is that I want to utilise the line out's better signal/sq, and that the arrow is the slimmest amp available so won't mind keeping it constantly attached to the ipod. Used to use a classic plus t3 and hated the way it stretched my jeans, and made them fall down from the weight. plus the arrow future proof if I decide to get some full size cans. Thoughts?
   
  edit: btw, from pics, I'm thinking it's about the same thickness as the touch, but pics can be decieving and the t3 was alot smaller irl than in pics. Some impressions would be nice. I know size seems a weird concern, but I won't use it if it's too chunky and will end up selling at a loss, like I did with the d10 i had (though i did enjoy using the dac on my laptop, but didn't use it enbough to warrant keeping it.


----------



## Mediaogre

It's Kate Moss after being on "Survivor" for a month and then catching the flu.
   
  I don't have any experience with a "true" LO, but it made my SE530s come alive. Just skim this thread. You'll find many comparable (and favorable) impressions. 

  
  Quote: 





andyt87 said:


> worth getting one of these to use with ipod touch 4g and shure se535?. my thinking is that I want to utilise the line out's better signal/sq, and that the arrow is the slimmest amp available so won't mind keeping it constantly attached to the ipod. Used to use a classic plus t3 and hated the way it stretched my jeans, and made them fall down from the weight. plus the arrow future proof if I decide to get some full size cans. Thoughts?
> 
> edit: btw, from pics, I'm thinking it's about the same thickness as the touch, but pics can be decieving and the t3 was alot smaller irl than in pics. Some impressions would be nice. I know size seems a weird concern, but I won't use it if it's too chunky and will end up selling at a loss, like I did with the d10 i had (though i did enjoy using the dac on my laptop, but didn't use it enbough to warrant keeping it.


----------



## AndyT87

thanks for the reply. will do!
   
  just hoping that I can find a seller before I get paid in a couple of weeks (just throwing that out there =)). Don't like the sound of having to wait a month (or more) for a new arrow; though I will if I have to.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





andyt87 said:


> worth getting one of these to use with ipod touch 4g and shure se535?. my thinking is that I want to utilise the line out's better signal/sq, and that the arrow is the slimmest amp available so won't mind keeping it constantly attached to the ipod. Used to use a classic plus t3 and hated the way it stretched my jeans, and made them fall down from the weight. plus the arrow future proof if I decide to get some full size cans. Thoughts?
> 
> edit: btw, from pics, I'm thinking it's about the same thickness as the touch, but pics can be decieving and the t3 was alot smaller irl than in pics. Some impressions would be nice. I know size seems a weird concern, but I won't use it if it's too chunky and will end up selling at a loss, like I did with the d10 i had (though i did enjoy using the dac on my laptop, but didn't use it enbough to warrant keeping it.


 
   
   
  This is a picture I found on the net (posted earlier in this thread) of the Arrow w.Touch. I think the Arrow is a _bit_ thinner than the Touch.  A perfect match regardless


----------



## AndyT87

=) thanks mate. that really is a perfect match! DO WANT.


----------



## zappp

Actually you can't see the Arrow, but is underneath and a tad thinner than the 3.5mm plug from the LOD.
   
  IEM are RE0 with custom tips


----------



## pinoyman

hi...
  help here please...
  is the ue700 good with the arrow amp?
  people, what do you think?


----------



## 129207

Does anyone have any experience with the Touch 3g/4g in combination with the Arrow? I've used the Arrow with my Sony X1050's line out before I sold the Sony and now I am looking for the same SQ.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





pinoyman said:


> hi...
> help here please...
> is the ue700 good with the arrow amp?
> people, what do you think?


 

 The Arrow is a neutral amp with a great deal of adjustability. Reading even a small portion of this thread would tell you that it is a good match for any head/earphone. A good amplifier doesn't change the sound of the source and associated components. I find the Arrow allows the sound of the music (most important) and the rest of the components ie. the source & headphones to come through clearly and with as little coloration as I've heard with any portable amp. If you want to tailor the sound for a particular source or headphone (add bass boost etc.) it offers the option.
   
  If you take the time to read some of this thread I think you will find many people have said the same thing.


----------



## aamefford

I really want one of these.  I am fresh from the Pico Slim preorder debacle.  I spent December to June or July on the list, spent another 3 weeks chasing a refund, and my number didn't ship until late August or early September.  I don't want to go through that again.
   
  So... How is the quoted delivery vs. actual delivery?  Currently, the website states that current orders will ship in November.  I can deal with November 30th.  I dont want to deal with November December January February.
   
  Any comments?


----------



## pinoyman

is it really worth investing an amp?
  specially the arrow...
  from my understanding...arrow is one of the best amp out there.
  not only the form, function, sound but also the price...
   
  what does it really do aside from amping?
  amping = giving more volume, power to drive a head gear right?
  aside from that...
  is there anything else?
   
  does it change the color of your sound?
  does it clean the sound?
   
   
  ...sorry people.
  i am stupid i know.
  but hoping you kind people will enlighten me more.
   
  i never own an amp in my life.
  even my speakers has an amp that i cant see since it is inside the speaker...audioengine a5.
   
   
   
_*note...*_
_*stupid of me.*_
_*thanks to hellenback for your patience and for answering some of my querries....*_
*you are very kind.*
*happy listening!*


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





pinoyman said:


> is it really worth investing an amp?
> specially the arrow...
> from my understanding...arrow is one of the best amp out there.
> not only the form, function, sound but also the price...
> ...


 

 In most cases people are happy w/o an amp.  Unless you are using an IEM that NEEDS an amp you will most likely get 85%-95% of your phones ability w/o an amp.  In many cases phones do not get enough power from the source so they are not showing you their potential.  The job of an amp is to get that last 5-15%.  It should not color sound though they can, especially if you do it yourself.  The Arrow and others can offer things like bass boost, gain, impedance, DACs and crossfeed to increase versatility if they choose.  But that has nothing to do w/ what an amp is 'supposed' to do.  Which is give the phone enough good clean power to do its job correctly.


----------



## pinoyman

well, thank you very much to you *ANAXILUS.*
   
  i am just wondering why people go ga-ga on amps...
  the reason is with it...it makes their head gears sing.
  good.
   
  i am just wondering...do i need one?
  how will i know?
  is it really essential to own one?


----------



## wuwhere

Let me take a crack at it:
   
  An amp takes the load off of your dap's internal amp. That load is your hp or iem. The benefits are an external amp has its own
  power supply - battery, that does not use power from your dap. So when the big bass comes and it needs all the power to reproduce that
  bass cleanly, it does not have to take that power from your dap. Also, an external amp has been designed for the purpose of cleanly
  amplifying the input signal.
   
  Does it change the sound? It can because it can now reproduce the input signal with more power cleanly.
  Does it clean the sound? No, its only purpose is to amplify whatever the quality of the input.
  
  Quote: 





pinoyman said:


> is it really worth investing an amp?
> specially the arrow...
> from my understanding...arrow is one of the best amp out there.
> not only the form, function, sound but also the price...
> ...


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Let me take a crack at it:
> 
> An amp takes the load off of your dap's internal amp. That load is your hp or iem. The benefits are an external amp has its own
> power supply - battery, that does not use power from your dap. So when the big bass comes and it needs all the power to reproduce that
> ...


 

 Assuming you have a LO of course.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> Quote:
> what does it really do aside from amping?
> amping = giving more volume, power to drive a head gear right?
> aside from that...
> is there anything else?


 
   
  You've pretty much answered your own question....a good amplifier will provide a better _quality_ of sound _especially_ at higher volumes. ie less distortion, higher/better sensitivity to frequencies that are difficult to hear or reproduce with ease (very high or low frequencies). Often, depending on the recording there can be a better sense that the music is coming from outside your head or at the very least not just located in your left/right ear and the _middle_ of your head. I'm sure there are many people who would give a more technical and detailed explanation but that is how I personally see/hear it. If you think about it most DAPs (digital audio players) have to put a lot of technology in a very compact unit and sell it at a price that will compete in the market. The amplifier section is only one small part of most DAPs and often not much goes into it...usually just enough to drive ear-buds. For many this is enough. For me, once I heard music through headphones from a good amplifier I just couldn't really enjoy the music as much without that extra oomph a good external amp provides. Some IEMs don't benefit as much from an amp as others and with full sized headphones you will probably be better able to immediately distinguish a big difference.
   
  Without knowing your player, type of music etc. it is very difficult to say how much of a difference you will hear. Your best bet is to go to a meet in your area and try a headphone amp with your own gear. Another way is to buy an amp and if you really don't think the SQ improvement is worth it you can usually return it within a reasonable period of time with only the shipping cost lost. With a small headphone amp this is a very small amount to spend to determine if you can appreciate the difference.
   
  This sticky written by Boomana here on head-fi goes into much more detail and will likely answer most of your questions. In the end, no matter how much you read or are told you really do have to try for yourself in order to *hear* if you would appreciate the improvement an amp brings.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/wiki/a-hopefully-helpful-headphone-buying-guide-for-newbies-by-boomana
   
   
  That's about all I have to offer and hope it has been of at least _some_ help.
    
  EDIT:
  @ Anaxilus/wuwhere...it seems we were typing a reply at the same time. I don't think there are any contradictions in what was said


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Assuming you have a LO of course.


 


  LO or HO does not matter, its still an input to an external amplifier which does not care nor differentiate. All it knows is to amply that input signal.


----------



## pinoyman

*hellenback, wuwhere, and anaxilus.*..very well said...
  thank you very much.


----------



## wuwhere

Absolutely. I have 5 amplifiers and with the same input and the same IEM, they all sound different, at least to my ears.


----------



## grokit

From another thread, not DAP specific::
   
  Quote:


currawong said:


> The point of an amp is that it provides a more linear performance with the headphones overall. This translates to lower distortion and higher sound quality.



   
  I thought it was a good, simple explanation so there it is


----------



## wuwhere

A simple explanation to a non-simple question. Impedance across the frequency response of an IEM/HP is not a straight line. There are peaks and valleys. How an amp reacts to those peaks and valleys is not known.
  Typically when it is measured, it is with a 1kHz frequency input.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> From another thread, not DAP specific::
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> LO or HO does not matter, its still an input to an external amplifier which does not care nor differentiate. All it knows is to amply that input signal.


 

 Sorry I thought you said bypass the internal amp.  Well, you are still using the internal amp of the DAP in that case and just amplifying it for better or worse as you said.


----------



## wuwhere

There are at least two stages, preamp and amp. The DAC's output has to be pre-amplified to feed the internal amp and /or the LO.
   
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Sorry I thought you said bypass the internal amp.  Well, you are still using the internal amp of the DAP in that case and just amplifying it for better or worse.


----------



## wuwhere

I still find this amp too dark for my taste, but that's just me.


----------



## pinoyman

well bro if you dont want it...just pm me..
  i can take care of them for you.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  i want one. and i think...i need it? hahaha


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> There are at least two stages, preamp and amp. The DAC's output has to be pre-amplified to feed the internal amp and /or the LO.


 


  Obviously the point is bypassing as much coloration as possible like opamps otherwise LO's wouldn't exist, wouldn't you agree?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> I still find this amp too dark for my taste, but that's just me.


 

 You find it dark or warm?  I think someone said the Stepdance was a touch warm as well.  Any thoughts?  
   
  What portable amp do you prefer for uber clarity then?


----------



## Sarkar

Hi, I'm new to this and need help to decide if a PORTABLE headphone amp is worth the expense in terms of CLEARLY PERCEPTIBLE SOUND QUALITY TO THE LAYMAN (NOT 'golden ears' types) when I'm using the following:
   
  1. iPod Touch, 4th generation
  2. IEM: the UE700, dual armature, impedance 40 ohms, sensitivity 113dB/mW (http://ultimateears.com/en-us/products/700#specifications)
  3. Circumaural headphone: the Denon AH-D5000, 50mm Neodymium drivers, impedance 25 ohms, sensitivity 106 dB/mW
   
  I like my music 'warm', with tight bass and a very well defined mid-range for male and female vocals - can't take 'bright/shrill' highs & tire easily from them.
   
  If an amp WILL make a difference (and it has to be portable), I'd like to choose between Ray Samuels Audio ('Hornet' model: http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/products/hornet) and the Headstage Arrow 12HE 2G (High Efficiency) - would you recommend one please?
   
  Thanks guys!


----------



## pinoyman

@sarkar,
  hi bro... i also own the UE700 as an iem.
  i believe there is a little difference when you amp that dual ba armature.
  in fact, mr. joker already told me that and many reviewers here mentioned that amping those ue700 is not necessarily needed.


----------



## nsx_23

Just ordered one to go with my UE18s. Now the long wait begins.


----------



## aamefford

I also just joined the club, order # 2783.


----------



## nsx_23

I just wonder when in November will it ship.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





nsx_23 said:


> I just wonder when in November will it ship.


 

 I can answer that.  Not soon enough.


----------



## danielwongar

hey guys, anyone tried pairing the arrow with the triple.fi 10?
   
  im currently using these with s:flo2 as my source, however my triple.fis become extremely muddy. the high frequencies all seem to be lost. i am positive it is not a source issue as i have tried it with sansa fuze and sansa clip.
   
  anyone using this pairing? what are your observations?


----------



## rehabitat

click "search this thread" above and type "TF10"


----------



## danielwongar

yeah i did that and found that im not the only one after all. thanks for the suggestion.
   
  so i guess as a heads up, those of you using a triple.fi as your main IEM shouldn't get this amplifier, unless of course you have heard it for yourself and it suits your preference.
   
  on another note, this amp sounds great with my srh840s. definitely fuller sounding and wider soundstage. bass boost does its job very well.


----------



## nsx_23

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I can answer that.  Not soon enough.


 

 Too right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I hate waiting for new toys


----------



## grokit

The Arrow didn't sound too good with my Tf-11 (Tf-10 remold +add'l mid driver) either, but fantastic with my e-Q7.


----------



## XtianP

Woah,
   
  Just received it after waiting  4 months. The sound is fantastic with my K702 and the amp connected to the dock port of the iPod.
  First Settings: Bass I, Cross I, Gain 0, Imp 0.
   
  Good job Rob, Thanks
  Xtian


----------



## aamefford

I wonder as well.  Oops, duplicate post with the one below...


----------



## aamefford

Quote: 





			
				nsx_23 said:
			
		

> I just wonder when in November will it ship.


 
   
   
  I wonder as well...


----------



## shamrock134

I bought a second hand Arrow 2G as I grew impatient waiting for my order. Hopefully I can now cancel that before it gets shipped!
   
  Currently loving the arrow's bass boost in conjunction with my es10s. It is very subtle on setting 1 but setting 2 is great for rumbling sub-bass!


----------



## DVDIT

Quote: 





danielwongar said:


> so i guess as a heads up, those of you using a triple.fi as your main IEM shouldn't get this amplifier, unless of course you have heard it for yourself and it suits your preference.


 


  This is sad. I was thinking of getting this amp for my TF10 and RE0. Why this effect on the TF10 ?


----------



## danielwongar

i have a hunch it is to do with the crossovers, but don't quote me on that. i notified robert and he is looking into it now. lets hope he is able to fix this issue.


----------



## soviet911

So couple of questions to the owners. Has anyone tried the arrow with HD25-1? As well as how robust is it? Any one managed  to break a jack input yet? Any one droped theirs yet?


----------



## wazzupi

nice to see someone else with an es10+arrow 2g combo. I loved the setting 2 too this es10 can really output some really great bass /w the arrow more than I ever thought. unforunately I sold my arrow 2g because I purchased the jh3a+jh16's...  I do miss and am waiting impatientely for my jh3a GRR.
  
  Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> I bought a second hand Arrow 2G as I grew impatient waiting for my order. Hopefully I can now cancel that before it gets shipped!
> 
> Currently loving the arrow's bass boost in conjunction with my es10s. It is very subtle on setting 1 but setting 2 is great for rumbling sub-bass!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dvdit said:


> This is sad. I was thinking of getting this amp for my TF10 and RE0. Why this effect on the TF10 ?


 

 Lol, I didn't think it was that great with the RE0 either. The e-Q7 sounds outstanding.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The Arrow didn't sound too good with my Tf-11 (Tf-10 remold +add'l mid driver) either, but fantastic with my e-Q7.


 

 Hello grokit,
   
  Can you go into some depth as to what negative characteristics are evident when pairing the TF10 (11) IEMs with the Arrow (that are remedied by using another portable amp)? For the life of me I can't understand why a fairly neutral amp would have a hard time with one particular brand of ear-phones. What's different about this IEM that makes it a bad match; or are they just very sensitive IEMs that don't derive much benefit from a dedicated amp?


----------



## grokit

I don't think sensitivity or impedance has anything to do with it, as the Arrow is very versatile in those regards. Someone recently speculated above that it could be the crossovers don't mesh that well with the Tripl-fis, that could be it I don't know. As it sounded great with everything else I tried, it makes sense that the Tripl-fis could have an unusual crossover configuration. For myself, I kept the Arrow and ditched my Tripl-fis (and my Super-fis).


----------



## dizzyraider

From my experience, the TripleFi's crossover doesn't work well with additional resistance. When I tried a impedance adapter, the highs are almost completely none existent and it sounded really funky. I'm guessing that is probably what you are experiencing with you Arrow. I think the Arrow has a default 10ohm output impedance and I'm not sure if that has to do with the crossover freak out.


----------



## 129207

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Lol, I didn't think it was that great with the RE0 either. The e-Q7 sounds outstanding.


 


  The Arrow made me keep my RE0. It made it sound like a whole new IEM! The bassboost and crossfeed breathe new life into that cold and analytical thing. I can't imagine someone not liking the RE0 + Arrow combo over _just_ the RE0.


----------



## grokit

To be fair to the Arrow I never liked the RE0 with anything else either


----------



## s1rrah

Although I bought the Headstage Arrow amp for various reasons ...
   
  1st: Cause it's good design
  2nd: Cause I had recently been re introduced to the passion of portable music by my earlier purchase of an S:flo 2 DAP and I wanted to try and extend it's magic
  3rd: Well, cause I just like black (and did I say good design?).
  4rd: (can I say 4rd?) ... I was just curious and had money to spare (but I sure didn't know how long it would take!)
   

   
  Anyway .. even though I _absolutely_ love the Arrow with my S:flo 2 portable and my Shure SE530 IEM's ... 
   
  I can't help but admit that I'm far more astounded by the performance of this (apparently humble appearing) machine with my currently possesed suite of full sized cans.
   
  Really. It's, well, quite astonishing for a portable.
   
  If you travel a lot and have some decent full sized cans, a decent DAP? And want near top end desktop sound while "on the road" ??? You must investigate this amp. Really, I'm blown away. It's just several notches behind my own Havana/Raptor rig and my roomies Woo 6 SE rig (I am well acquainted with both, BTW and consider them both brilliant).
   
  So tonight ... as a test of sorts ...
   
  I broke out every full sized can I have access to here in the s1rrah Household(tm) and put each one through a good ten minute listening session. Classical, alt-country, sludge, metal, doom, indie, folk and all points in between, all were represented. And, again (not embellishing in the least; and I've never been a portable guy or fan boi of any kind ... hell, I didn't even consider portable worthwhile until I was introduced to the S:flo player variants) ... but I still have to say, this amp is a _revelation_. It has neatly and quite matter of factly jockeyed into that rare category of purchased gear (along with the Havana DAC, etc.) known as the "I will never get rid of it Category(tm)." ... LOL.
   
  Anyway, so here's the cans I listened to ... consider it a pictorial of sorts; I won't say much for each instance but I will say this for all instances: They all sounded brilliant! I was especially impressed with the Arrow combined with the AKG K701. The Arrow's very awesome bass boost circuit (to this writer's ear, anyway) added just the bit of "UMPH" that these cans need.
   
  Anyway ... 
   
  Here go ...
   
*Arrow settings for all cans:*

 
_Bass Boost: "1"_
_Crossfeed: "0"_
_Gain: "1"_
_Impedance: "0"_
   
  ...
  ...
  ...
  ...
   
*Headstage Arrow (2nd Gen) w/ AKG K701*
(very rich sounding, with bass boost set at 1; excellent detail and presence; with other amps not quite suited to the AKG's, they have sometimes come across as "anemic" or "thin" or lacking "muscle" ... here, though? Not the case. Perhaps the most surprising listen of the session.)  
  ...
   

   
   
  ...
   
   
   
*Headstage Arrow (2nd Gen) w/ Audize LCD-2*
(I know it's hard to believe, but I think I prefer the LCD-2 through the Arrow over through the Raptor)  
  ...
   

   
   
  ...
   
   
   
*Headstage Arrow (2nd Gen) w/ Shure SRH840*
(perhaps my fav match with the Arrow amp; again, the first stage bass boost really shines with these and the sound, otherwise, is thick, natural and really nice; the fact that the 840's are closed cans doesn't even slightly impact the sound. In fact, I think I like that.)
...
   
 
   
   
  ...
   
   
   
*Headstage Arrow (2nd Gen) w/ Grado GS1000*
(Nit picky cans that I still have learned to love; the Arrow does very very well with them; in fact, I'm still listening to my .flac collection with the GS1000's and the Arrow, 2 hours after taking those shots ... very very nice)
   
...
   
 
   
  ...
   
  So take the above with a few chunks of salt.
   
  It's just what I heard tonight.
   
  But I stand my ground. The Arrow amp, as portables go ... is pretty damn astonishing.
   
  But hey! You sign up and wait a few months to get your own and then do your own tests.
   
  Till then?
   
  I am only the messenger!
   
  Rock it!
   
  /s1rrah/


----------



## cn11

Curse you for posting those impressions of the Arrow w/LCD-2's!! I want those cans SOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad. But I just blew any available budget on home audio gear. Not complaining, I love my new Gallo Strada's and ML Depth-i subwoofer... but your post just rekindles the desire for those lovely orthos. And, as soon as Robert emails me back to say he's ready for trade-in, I'm getting the 2G version you have. 
   
  Hope you keep enjoying the Arrow.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





grokit said:


> To be fair to the Arrow I never liked the RE0 with anything else either


 

 That's more useful information as it now appears your dislike of the REO/Arrow combo has nothing to do with the amp  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  @s1rrah
   
  It's nice to hear yet another person confirm that this amp does an excellent job with full sized cans. When I first heard it I was also astounded at it's ability to drive big cans *well* (as opposed to just just loud). On an aside....I'm thinking seriously about an s:Flo after reading so many positive comments.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> That's more useful information as it now appears your dislike of the REO/Arrow combo has nothing to do with the amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Point one: I bought the Arrow for portable ... but then realized it would be "quite the champ" in regards to full sized cans. Color me learned.
   
  Point two: The S:flo 2 is the dopest, most rad'est, best sounding DAP I've had fun playing with. Might take some coaxing/getting used to ... but (if you can make peace with it's occasional interface glitches?) ... then, I have no problem saying, it's the best portable player you could ever end up with! ...


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> Point one: I bought the Arrow for portable ... but then realized it would be "quite the champ" in regards to full sized cans. Color me learned.
> 
> Point two: The S:flo 2 is the dopest, most rad'est, best sounding DAP I've had fun playing with. Might take some coaxing/getting used to ... but (if you can make peace with it's occasional interface glitches?) ... then, I have no problem saying, it's the best portable player you could ever end up with! ...


 
   
  Excuse my ignorance on this but is the S:flo 2 equipped with two WM8740 DAC chips?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Excuse my ignorance on this but is the S:flo 2 equipped with two WM8740 DAC chips?


 

 One per channel, similar to the D4 I believe.

  
  Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> Point two: The S:flo 2 is the dopest, most rad'est, best sounding DAP I've had fun playing with. Might take some coaxing/getting used to ... but (if you can make peace with it's occasional interface glitches?) ... then, I have no problem saying, it's the best portable player you could ever end up with! ...


 

 I hope the Sflo2 is the largest DAP you can accept because the 602 is unfortunately quite ridonkulous.


----------



## Orcin

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> Point one: I bought the Arrow for portable ... but then realized it would be "quite the champ" in regards to full sized cans. Color me learned.
> 
> Point two: The S:flo 2 is the dopest, most rad'est, best sounding DAP I've had fun playing with. Might take some coaxing/getting used to ... but (if you can make peace with it's occasional interface glitches?) ... then, I have no problem saying, it's the best portable player you could ever end up with! ...


 


 Ok, you made your points! You could shut up anytime now... I only have so much money, you know.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Aw, what's the use... we both know I will be ordering these on Monday.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I will bring my Predator on Sunday. I am curious to see how it compares to the Arrow. It certainly does not have the same array of features. Of course, it does have a DAC but you pay more for it too.


----------



## pinoyman

hi...
  when i plug the earphones/headphones to the arrow...
  am i hearing the sound from the source or from the arrow itself?
  i really like to know this because...
   
  if im getting the sound now from the arrow and not the ipod, i may now know that this arrow is essentially useful.
  does it bypass the sound from the source or does it still give you the sound from the source?
   
  will somebody help me?
  sorry...im still seeking some light here.


----------



## s1rrah

@ Orcin:
   
  See you on Sunday. Will have the S:flo 2, the Arrow and a couple full sized cans to share the love with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (but don't say I didn't warn you! my gal is in town and we've got plans for really late Saturday! So I might look like Yoda, and at best? Gollum) ... LOL. See you there, mang!
   
  BTW ... to whoever asked?
   
  Yes, the S:flo 2 has _*two*_ DAC chips ... one for each channel (L/R) ... as one reviewer has said ... this makes for "a potent" mix.
   
  You be the judge, but I think it sounds awesome.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





pinoyman said:


> hi...
> when i plug the earphones/headphones to the arrow...
> am i hearing the sound from the source or from the arrow itself?
> i really like to know this because...
> ...


 

 Arrow is an amp.  It is amplifying your source.  It is not a DAC decoding the signal from your source and 'making' sound.


----------



## pinoyman

oh many thanks anaxilus!
  i really listen only straight from my ipod...
  because ipod can drive much of my earphones.


----------



## AndyT87

if anyone has one of these for sale please pm.
   
  sorry if i'm not supposed to do this!


----------



## gazar

I have ordered an Arrow 12 HE. I currently use a 6th gen Classic with Nu-force Icon mobile, which is pretty near the bottom of the pile when it comes to portable amps. 
   
  I currently use Westone W3 but have a pair of UE 5 EB's and a slightly damaged pair of Shure 530's ( cable grommet as usual).
   
  Going by all the comments regarding the Arrow, I should be pleasantly surprised by the performance of the Arrow.
   
  Very usefull Forum you have here.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> @ Orcin:
> 
> See you on Sunday. Will have the S:flo 2, the Arrow and a couple full sized cans to share the love with.
> 
> ...


 


 I asked and would like to know where to buy one and how much they are.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





gazar said:


> I have ordered an Arrow 12 HE. I currently use a 6th gen Classic with Nu-force Icon mobile, which is pretty near the bottom of the pile when it comes to portable amps.
> 
> I currently use Westone W3 but have a pair of UE 5 EB's and a slightly damaged pair of Shure 530's ( cable grommet as usual).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Welcome to head-fi...pretty sure you _will_ be pleasantly surprised


----------



## zaimlerx

Hows Arrow with JH16pro?
   
  thanks


----------



## syaknikwa

Can this amp drive a akg 271mkII?..


----------



## dfkt

It should drive both the JH16 and the K271 without any issues. Just like most any other phone out there (except electrostats).


----------



## grokit

I got some clipping on an HE-5 and to a lesser extent on a K701 so I believe that is about the line on the Arrow (meaning it's pretty damn powerful for a portable).


----------



## nsx_23

How long have people waited on average for their Arrows?


----------



## dizzyraider

Not sure, but I think there were some that ordered in April and received theirs in October. I placed mine in the beginning of July and I'm still waiting. I'm guessing the waiting period will get shorter once Robert catches up with all the "pre" orders.


----------



## nsx_23

When I placed my order the website said all new orders will ship in November, so hopefully it gets here soon...


----------



## syaknikwa

just placed my order today.. ^_^


----------



## InesCanuyang

hi guys, just wondering.
   
  Will the Arrow be better than the M-stage for an akg k701?
   
  If their almost the same, then ill pick the arrow because of the form factor but if the m-stage is way much better then i'll get an M-stage


----------



## grokit

The Arrow is a pretty powerful portable but it will clip with the K701 IME. It needs a lot of current and I would think that the M-Stage is much more likely to drive them adequately but I have not heard that combo.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





inescanuyang said:


> hi guys, just wondering.
> 
> Will the Arrow be better than the M-stage for an akg k701?
> 
> If their almost the same, then ill pick the arrow because of the form factor but if the m-stage is way much better then i'll get an M-stage


 
   
  I have the AKG701's and the Arrow drives them brilliantly. I've also got a Ray Sam Raptor and a Woo 6 SE here at the house and so I have some decent points of comparison.
   
  In fact, I enjoy the AKG701's more through the Arrow as it's bass boost (setting 1) gives the 701's just that little bit of "heft" that I've always thought they lack with certain types of music. And regarding said bass boost circuit? It is exceptionally clean, tight and without bloat or "wool" or ugliness of any kind. Best bass boost circuit I've ever heard and the fact that it's got two incremental settings makes it even more useful.
   
  The Arrow is my go to amp when listening to the 701's (much to the chagrin of it's more lofty, desktop neighbors) 
   
  YMMV.
   
  Best!
  s1rrah


----------



## nighteyes

I placed my order today


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> I have the AKG701's and the Arrow drives them brilliantly.
> 
> -snip-
> 
> YMMV.


 

 You must not be listening very loudly.
   
  My K701 clips at high volume with the Arrow during complex passages, but not quite as bad as my HE-5 does.


----------



## 129207

Quote: 





grokit said:


> You must not be listening very loudly.
> 
> My K701 clips at high volume with the Arrow during complex passages, but not quite as bad as my HE-5 does.


 


  source dependant?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





negakinu said:


> source dependant?


 
   
  ALAC > iMod > Solid Silver LOD, but I will try it again with a V-Cap dock soon and double-check the impedance settings.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





grokit said:


> ALAC > iMod > Solid Silver LOD, but I will try it again with a V-Cap dock soon and double-check the impedance settings.


 


  To be fair to "grokit" ...
   
  I did re visit the AKG701's with my Arrow amp. And, I cranked the volume up way beyond what I'd typically listen at. And? To his/her credit ... at Real Loud Ass(tm) volumes, there was some clipping/distortion. But again ... this was at volumes three times (or more) what I'd typically listen at (and I'm a band whore/member from way back and my ears are at least 1/4th shredded) ... so I can't imagine anyone actually deeming to listen at such levels.
   
  Anyway ..
   
  I have no knowledge of the M-Stage amp. So my comments remain. 
   
  The Arrow is quite delicious with the AKG701 phones. 
   
  YMMV.
   
  Best!
   
  s1rrah.


----------



## nighteyes

How much time does it normally take to Rob to answer an email?


----------



## nsx_23

x2 on that question. I haven't received a reply from Rob in a while now.


----------



## InesCanuyang

tnx guys
   
  just got to find a good way to place my order on the arrow since i'm in a foreign country right now.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





nsx_23 said:


> x2 on that question. I haven't received a reply from Rob in a while now.


 

 Try posting on the headphonia forum  http://www.headphonia.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8  
   
   
  @ InesCanuyang    Maybe you should try the same?


----------



## SoulSyde

I just purchased mine. 
   
  My New Year's resolution next year is to spend less money on headphone gear.


----------



## cn11

^^ Hope that resolution works out for you... good luck! Heh.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> ^^ Hope that resolution works out for you... good luck! Heh.


 


  I have a feeling that by May I'll own 3 more pairs of headphones, 2 more amps and my gym membership will expire.
   
  Oh well... best laid plans...


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> I have a feeling that by May I'll own 3 more pairs of headphones, 2 more amps and my gym membership will expire.
> 
> Oh well... best laid plans...


 

 Ha ha, well that's how it works around here. Just don't get married (if you already aren't) or your spending will take a serious dive. There's a lot I want to try out right now, but the spending has been 'reigned in'. 
   
  My list would include: first & foremost the updated Arrow amp via trade-in (I will most likely just do that one regardless since it's a reasonable expense), JH16's, a nice desktop amp of some sort, and for full-size cans- Audeze LCD-2's, AT ES10's.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> Ha ha, well that's how it works around here. Just don't get married (if you already aren't) or your spending will take a serious dive. There's a lot I want to try out right now, but the spending has been 'reigned in'.


 


 Married 7 years, 1 kid (7 months old).


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Married 7 years, 1 kid (7 months old).


 

 Well there you go! Congrats on the 7 month old.... You must have an understanding wife, regarding this sickness....


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> Well there you go! Congrats on the 7 month old.... You must have an understanding wife, regarding this sickness....


 

 The Most!  I've also had a very good year at work, which has helped.
   
  And, thanks.
   
  Sorry for the thread-jack, but here are the both of us from a few weeks ago.  Just as my wife was taking the picture Lucy smooshed her face against mine.  Priceless.


----------



## gazar

What a great photo !!.
   
  Would it it not be more honest for the guy not to say "out of stock" rather than keep taking orders ??
   
  Playing catch up must be hard. But asking for new orders when you can't give a realistic delivery date is not good business.
   
  It's the way i would do it ??
   
  EDIT: ok i'm getting frustrated i don't have my one yet.


----------



## syaknikwa

i ordered mine too few days ago, because it says in the site "NEW ORDERS WILL SHIPPED ON NOVEMBER" and i'm hoping that i will get the amp this month.. but upon reading the other threads there.. they waited like months for their order.. so i think getting the amp this month will not gonna happen, unless they are working now 24/7 with the arrow amps LOL and i think thats the reason why they can't even reply to questions of the buyers even in their own forum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .. but still i will wait for the amp


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





syaknikwa said:


> .. but still i will wait for the amp


 

 I will too (within reason).  I'm really looking forward to trying this amp out.  It gets such rave reviews from everyone.


----------



## gazar

He must make everyone of them himself. I would nip over to Munich and give him a help but A I'm' too busy and B my soldering lacks a bit of finesse. I am quite sure i will get it when it arrives


----------



## syaknikwa

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> I will too (within reason).  I'm really looking forward to trying this amp out.  It gets such rave reviews from everyone.


 

 with such good feedbacks on the amp, i'm sure the wait is really worth it


----------



## Sarkar

Lucy is a little doll...and looks quite a bit like papa here. Seems everyone just has to 'hurry up and wait' for this amp...


----------



## dizzyraider

2524 is still waiting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  Going to be leaving for a week long vacation in mid December, hopefully it will get here before then...


----------



## SoulSyde

I'm 2852.... Gulp.


----------



## s1rrah

Well, certainly not to dis on Ray Sam or anything because I am a fan of his Raptor amp (which I have owned for quite a while and LOVE) ...
   
  But I will say this:
   
  A couple of weeks ago myself and a local pal spent some time A/B ing the Arrow with my buds RS Predator and, well, to use the words of my friend who owns the Predator: _"The Predator was just crushed by the Headstage amp. It wasn't even close!"_ This is not a competition, I know and I hate it when folks dis on particular builders for one reason or the other and so again, this is not a slant against RS as I consider him a fairly bad ass designer. 
   
  But I'm also aware that we are all looking for the best performance for our money and in this case, the Headstage Arrow is the far better sounding amp. Across the board, really. The Predator sounded thin, tinny and well, just utterly lifeless sat next to the Arrow. Even with the Arrow 'zero'd' out, no bass boost or otherwise, it was still a far more "full" sounding, "rich" and much more engaging portable amp. Furthermore, the Predator just could not drive the full sized cans nearly as well (we tried Shure SR840's that day, a fairly low impedance can but also one that genuinely sounds better when properly amped) ... the Arrow, again was far superior (and sports a much more user friendly price tag that a lot of inferior portables out there). All listening was done on the Arrow's default gain/impedance settings with no need to ever adjust these to higher or lower settings. There is an incredible amount of power headroom available with the Arrow ... 
   
  (my above mentioned local pal is already making plans to sell his Predator and get the Arrow; so chalk one more up for Rob, eh?)
   
  Anyway, just more confirmation that it *is* indeed worth the wait.
   
  Rock it.
   
  .joel.


----------



## Orcin

Hey, stop driving down the value of my Predator.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





orcin said:


> Hey, stop driving down the value of my Predator.


 


  OH SHXT! ...
   
  LoL.


----------



## Anaxilus

My Arrow 2G is now an indispensable tool for me.  I'll be waiting for my Arrow 3G.


----------



## cn11

Agreed. Mine is indispensable for me too. My Arrow handily bettered the Shadow and Mustang amps when I had RSA units. The only other amp which equalled it was the ALO Rx. Of course that was only sonically- features vs. features it was no contest, and also the same result for form factor.


----------



## Mediaogre

Quote: 





syaknikwa said:


> i ordered mine too few days ago, because it says in the site "NEW ORDERS WILL SHIPPED ON NOVEMBER" and i'm hoping that i will get the amp this month.. but upon reading the other threads there.. they waited like months for their order.. so i think getting the amp this month will not gonna happen, unless they are working now 24/7 with the arrow amps LOL and i think thats the reason why they can't even reply to questions of the buyers even in their own forum
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Been away for a bit folks - sorry. I think email alerts just break once in a while. GREAT photo SoulSyde. Priceless. And it's my thread so... jack = approved. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  @ syaknikwa - take heart. Rob has hired extra help and it seems like he's working hard to meet demand.  Read through his support forum for up-to-date info. http://www.headphonia.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8


----------



## dizzyraider

There seems to be a slight update at headphonia, the usb dac cable/arrow combo is back and new orders will now be shipped in December (before Christmas)
   
   
  also... I have been alerted that my status is now changed shipped!


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote:  





> also... I have been alerted that my status is now changed shipped!


 


  Dare I ask.... what is your order number?


----------



## SoulSyde

@Mediaogre,
   
  Thanks


----------



## dizzyraider

I'm 2524 from early July.

 Hopefully he will be able to pick up his pace and catch up to the 2800s before Christmas...
   
  Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> 2524 is still waiting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SoulSyde

I'm 2852, Merry Christmas to me I hope.


----------



## syaknikwa

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> @ syaknikwa - take heart. Rob has hired extra help and it seems like he's working hard to meet demand.  Read through his support forum for up-to-date info. http://www.headphonia.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=


 
  thanks mediaogre..


----------



## syaknikwa

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> I'm 2852, Merry Christmas to me I hope.


 


  2836 here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





syaknikwa said:


> 2836 here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Damn you.  I'll give you $20 to switch places in line.


----------



## syaknikwa

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Damn you.  I'll give you $20 to switch places in line.


 

 nah.. thanks for the offer hahahah...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... I think we're on the same batch like 2800-2900.. coz thats the way they are shipping the amps.. i guess??


----------



## aamefford

2783, ordered last month, assured it would ship in November.  I added the DAC cable by the way.  Rob has made a few of the old style.  It is a brilliant concept in my opinion.


----------



## syaknikwa

Quote: 





aamefford said:


> 2783, ordered last month, assured it would ship in November.  I added the DAC cable by the way.  Rob has made a few of the old style.  It is a brilliant concept in my opinion.


 

 can you update us then when you receive your amp


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> Well, certainly not to dis on Ray Sam or anything because I am a fan of his Raptor amp (which I have owned for quite a while and LOVE) ...
> 
> But I will say this:
> 
> ...


 

 I just wanted to toss in that the Predator sounded like poop out of the box, and even up to 300 hours I was ready to sell mine.  But by 600 hours it was sounding really good, and sounded it's best after 1,000 hours.  We compared my 1,000+ hour Predator to one with 200-300 hours at a meet in 2008, and mine was clearly better sounding.  On top of that, the P-51 (unknown hours) was noticeably better sounding than the Predator even after all that improvement with burn-in, but a fully burned in Predator will never sound "thin, tinny and well, just utterly lifeless." if it's been fully burned in - it will be full and weighty and rich sounding.  I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't heard it for myself.
   
  However, I have no doubt the Arrow is a good amp even though I haven't heard it, because I've owned other amp's he's designed that sounded great.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I just wanted to toss in that the Predator sounded like poop out of the box, and even up to 300 hours I was ready to sell mine.  But by 600 hours it was sounding really good, and sounded it's best after 1,000 hours.  We compared my 1,000+ hour Predator to one with 200-300 hours at a meet in 2008, and mine was clearly better sounding.  On top of that, the P-51 (unknown hours) was noticeably better sounding than the Predator even after all that improvement with burn-in, but a fully burned in Predator will never sound "thin, tinny and well, just utterly lifeless." if it's been fully burned in - it will be full and weighty and rich sounding.  I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't heard it for myself.
> 
> However, I have no doubt the Arrow is a good amp even though I haven't heard it, because I've owned other amp's he's designed that sounded great.


 

  
  No worries, mate. Thanks for the input.
   
  Best!
   
  .s1rrah.


----------



## aamefford

Quote: 





syaknikwa said:


> can you update us then when you receive your amp


 
  Will Do.


----------



## dizzyraider

*Good news for Triple.Fi owners! *(me)
   
  I noticed that my shipping info says "Arrow G2.2 Shipped". I knew Robert changed opamp in the 2.1 to get rid of the pop during turn-on, but I don't know what change was in 2.2. After several emails, Robert told me that a customer wrote him about bad synergy with their TF10. Robert said he went out and ordered a TF10 and found that the output impedance really sounds bad with them so he removed the output resister for the G2.2. So for those of you that got a shipping notice with G2.2, the difference is in the removal of the output resister.
   
  BTW with Robert's lenient policy, I'm sure he'll let you exchange for one without the output resister if you are going to use it with TF10. As far as I know, TF10 is the only phones that behaves badly with additional resistance, so no need to freak out if you don't have the 2.2 version.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> I think email alerts just break once in a while.
> 
> http://www.headphonia.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8


 

 Or get sent to the spam folder 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was wondering why I wasn't getting updates so turned off the "immediate spam delete" and saw the updates start coming into the spam box! I've reset my email so hope to get updates directed to my in-box again! Very weird....
   
  It's nice to read that so many people are enjoying the Arrow as much as I've been. Here's hoping that the wait isn't _too_ long for those who don't have theirs yet. It certainly doesn't seem to be taking as long as the first batch of Arrow 2Gs!


----------



## Anaxilus

Will removal of the output resistor affect non TF10 phones?  I guess I don't full understand what's so unique about the TF10 compared to other phones.  I certainly want my amp to play nice w/ the TF10 but not at the expense of my collection.  Could someone electrically proficient present a Barney style breakdown for those of us that cringe at the site of wire diagrams?


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Will removal of the output resistor affect non TF10 phones?  I guess I don't full understand what's so unique about the TF10 compared to other phones.  I certainly want my amp to play nice w/ the TF10 but not at the expense of my collection.  Could someone electrically proficient present a Barney style breakdown for those of us that cringe at the site of wire diagrams?


 


  I'm not electrically proficient....but from what I can gather is that some crossover in multi-driver IEMs seems to not function very well when additional impedance is introduced. For the most part, many multi-driver IEM seems to work just fine, but the crossover in the TF10 is incredibly sensitive to the change. With additional impedance, the TF10's crossover will completely wipe out the higher frequencies and all you hear is mid and lows (if you can imagine what it sounds like, very very dull sound). 
   
  I think when Robert included output resistor in his design, the additional impedance is there to take out some background hiss for the more sensitive phones. I'm sure there is no harm by taking out the output resistor in this case since his amp has very low noise (at least from the impressions I get here). Although I did shoot him another email regarding the impedance setting to see if the other impedance settings are preserved (use to be 10/50/80, so I'm not sure it it is now 0/40/70 or 0 altogether).
   
  Once it gets here, I'll let you know how it works out with my cans


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thx, good answer.  Hopefully I'll have a TF10 on the way to observe the phenomena first hand.


----------



## Nirvana1000

Sounds like a great amp.I have been looking to replace my ALO Mini^3 which has superb sound quality.Fantastically big sound stage accompanied by smooth and detailed highs,mids and wonderful punchy,full deep bass.It makes all my DAPs sound better especially my Cowon S9.The Arrow's sound quality seems to be similar.But has what my Mini^3 is missing which is bass boost/control and gain control which is what my HD580s are missing with the ALO Mini^3.It does power them to very loud volume levels but at about 3:00 - 5:00 o'clock which isn't good for battery life.And I've read that the Arrow powers the HD650s very well.Can anyone with the HD580,HD600 or HD650 elaborate on what the Arrow does exactly well for them and how much volume to spare?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





nirvana1000 said:


> Sounds like a great amp.I have been looking to replace my ALO Mini^3 which had superb sound quality.Fantastically big sound stage accompanied by smooth and detailed highs,mids and wonderful punchy,full deep bass.It makes all my DAPs sound better especially my Cowon S9.The Arrow's sound quality seems to be similar.But has what my Mini^3 is missing which is bass boost/control and gain control which is what my HD580s are missing with the ALO Mini^3.It does power them to very loud volume levels but at about 3:00 - 5:00 o'clock which isn't good for battery life.And I've read that the Arrow powers the HD650s very well.Can anyone with the HD580,HD600 or HD650 elaborate on what the Arrow does exactly well for them and how much volume to spare?


 

 With HD650s you can run the Arrow on gain II  but the volume needs to be set quite high to attain the level I like (which is higher than most I must admit). On Gain III you don't need to push the volume much past half way for a good volume level.


----------



## aamefford

I sure hope that the G2.2 keeps the 50 ohm.  My main reason for this amp is to take my ER4P (25 ohm) to the 75 ohm S version via the 50 ohm setting, without the need for the adapter cable. Cross feed was reason #2, Bass boost was #3, and form factor and what appears to be very substantial output voltage from a portable pretty much round it out.


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





aamefford said:


> I sure hope that the G2.2 keeps the 50 ohm.  My main reason for this amp is to take my ER4P (25 ohm) to the 75 ohm S version via the 50 ohm setting, without the need for the adapter cable. Cross feed was reason #2, Bass boost was #3, and form factor and what appears to be very substantial output voltage from a portable pretty much round it out.


 


  I'll let you know when it gets here


----------



## aamefford

Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Please do!  What is your order number, by the way?  I am 2783.  Supposed to get a DAC cable with it.  I think the DAC cable is a brilliant idea if it is even remotely decent sounding.  It uses the Wolfson 8740, which is what my imod and diymod (both departed, and now missed...) use, and I thin my old Dacmagic as well.  It should sound at least as good as the i/diymods did, which was darned nice...


----------



## Caphead78

Quote: 





aamefford said:


> I sure hope that the G2.2 keeps the 50 ohm.  My main reason for this amp is to take my ER4P (25 ohm) to the 75 ohm S version via the 50 ohm setting, without the need for the adapter cable. Cross feed was reason #2, Bass boost was #3, and form factor and what appears to be very substantial output voltage from a portable pretty much round it out.


 


  Also, the total impedance of the S version is about 100 ohms, the adapter adds 75 ohms, not 50, though 50 would probably get close to the s sound


----------



## aamefford

Quote: 





			
				Caphead78 said:
			
		

> Also, the total impedance of the S version is about 100 ohms, the adapter adds 75 ohms, not 50, though 50 would probably get close to the s sound


 

I hope this doesn't come off combative - I'm just throwing it out there for general interest and info:
   
   
  [size=medium]I know for sure that a "stock" P cable is 25 ohms, and APureSound P cable is 20ish, and an APureSound S cable is 75 ohms.  A fellow head-fier was nice enough to send me both of his APureSound cables to try, and let me buy the one I liked best.  I checked 'em out with my trusty Fluke while I had the whole pile.  I kept the P cable.  Note that I think the APureSound sounds the same as the "stock" P cable, basically (Sorry Alex!).  I like to wear my IEM cables over my ears, and the Ety cables are not conducive to that.  The Ety cables are miserably microphonic and long also.  Plus, my Ety's are a few years old, and have the ugly green pod in the middle.  Basically, I spent a decent piece of change for ergonomics and appearance.  Note that the APureSound solved all my issues with a really nicely made cable (does that help any, Alex?)
   
   
  I did not check any of the cables with the actual IEM's attached, so I don't know what the resistance is with the IEM's in the circuit.  It looks like the impedance switch will definitely be "close enough" to the S sound for me.
   
  EDIT - Oops! Off topic - Sorry!​[/size]


----------



## Caphead78

@aamefford

 From Headroom's page about the er4 S-P adapter: "Short Cable Adds 75-ohm Impedance to Audio Signal". 
  From Etymotic's own ER4-S page: "Impedance (@1 kHz): 100 Ohms (4B/4S) 27 Ohms (4P)"

 Anyway, back to the topic. Is anyone else having trouble with the Headphonia website? No matter what browser I use the site wont let me log in to check my order status and tells me my browser does not supportcookies, which is false.


----------



## aamefford

I was having trouble with Chrome, but firefox and safari worked fine.  Just a few minutes ago, Chrome worked fine.  None of them have made my order status switch to shipped, though...
   
  @Caphead78, Thank you for the clarification.  It makes sense - P is ~25 ohm, plus 75 ohm adapter = S ~ 100 ohm.


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





aamefford said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  For sure, I don't think I will be able to bottle my joy when the darn thing finally gets here after a near 5 months wait  (Order Number 2524 BTW). I think someone mentioned about the wait time in the Headphonia forum and Robert replied that the wait should be much shorter now. 
   
  Regarding the dac cable, I also ordered my amp with it. I think if you write Robert and having it ship separately, you can get it much earlier before amp 
   
   


caphead78 said:


> @aamefford
> 
> From Headroom's page about the er4 S-P adapter: "Short Cable Adds 75-ohm Impedance to Audio Signal".
> From Etymotic's own ER4-S page: "Impedance (@1 kHz): 100 Ohms (4B/4S) 27 Ohms (4P)"
> ...


 


  That was the case for me too for the past 2 days with Chrome and IE, Firefox was the only allowed to login. They all seem to be working fine today though.


----------



## Caphead78

The site seems to be back up for me too w/ chrome, though mine hasn't changed to shipped either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *aamefford*
> 
> I was having trouble with Chrome, but firefox and safari worked fine.  Just a few minutes ago, Chrome worked fine.  None of them have made my order status switch to shipped, though...


----------



## Anaxilus

All first born Arrow 2Gs must be sacrified to appease the Google gods!  I merely smeared lambs blood all over my Arrow.  It's safe now.


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> All first born Arrow 2Gs must be sacrified to appease the Google gods!  I merely smeared lambs blood all over my Arrow.  It's safe now.


 


  I don't know if I would be able to make that sacrifice....probably just let everyone suffer......


----------



## Anaxilus

Just thought of the perfect Avatar for Head-Fi.  Ancient pagan Hebrews building a golden calf, drinking and dancing all while wearing headphones.


----------



## dannytang

I just checked my account and the status has been updated to "Arrow G2.2 shipped."
   
  In case anyone wants a reference my order number is 2594, so Robert's probably only the 2600s now!


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





dannytang said:


> I just checked my account and the status has been updated to "Arrow G2.2 shipped."
> 
> In case anyone wants a reference my order number is 2594, so Robert's probably only the 2600s now!


 


  Thanks for the update.


----------



## danielwongar

Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> *Good news for Triple.Fi owners! *(me)
> 
> I noticed that my shipping info says "Arrow G2.2 Shipped". I knew Robert changed opamp in the 2.1 to get rid of the pop during turn-on, but I don't know what change was in 2.2. After several emails, Robert told me that a customer wrote him about bad synergy with their TF10. Robert said he went out and ordered a TF10 and found that the output impedance really sounds bad with them so he removed the output resister for the G2.2. So for those of you that got a shipping notice with G2.2, the difference is in the removal of the output resister.
> 
> BTW with Robert's lenient policy, I'm sure he'll let you exchange for one without the output resister if you are going to use it with TF10. As far as I know, TF10 is the only phones that behaves badly with additional resistance, so no need to freak out if you don't have the 2.2 version.


 

  
  haha i was that customer. was really glad that Robert managed to fix the issue. however he told me to keep the change a secret, so i didnt share it with you guys.. but i guess its okay now.


----------



## dfkt

I wonder if removing the output resistor will increase background hiss?


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> I wonder if removing the output resistor will increase background hiss?


 


  I was wondering the same thing.


----------



## dizzyraider

Possibly, but the original setting on 0 was only 10ohms. My guess is it probably won't affect too much.


----------



## dfkt

10 Ohm can make a world of a difference, at least with your average 16 Ohm / 120dB/mW super-low impedance, ultra-high efficiency phones.


----------



## dizzyraider

Direct Copy and Past from Headphonia forum page.
   
   
*Arrow Change Log*
 *Arrow 1G:*

 - Since mid February: Improved sensitivity of automatic switch (will not turn off accidentally)
 - Since April: Nuts are directly soldered on the circuit board (will not get loose)

*Arrow G2.0:*

 - Second headphone jack
 - No real power switch
 - Deeper bass boost 9dB + 9dB
 - Longer battery run time (up to 50 hours)
 - Film input caps
 - Lower ESR power rail caps and decoupling caps
 - Rear switches are more recessed (less sticking out)
 - Better firmware (faster power shifting, more precise battery voltage detection etc.)

*Arrow G2.1:*

 -New pre-amp (less switch-on click noise)

*Arrow G2.2:*

 - Change of output resistors from 10/75/110 to 0/65/110 (better synergy with some IEMs like Triple.Fi 10 which sound weird with any output resistor)

*Arrow G3.0* - will ship at the end of November (please write me if you prefer this version)

 - Change of output resistors to 0/20/65 (better control of treble)
 - Additional ceramic capacitors to lower impedance of tantalum caps (virtual better treble but barely noticeable)


----------



## aamefford

dizzyraider,  Thank you for posting this, I hadn't seen it.  I just shot Rob a note to hold my order for the G3.0.  I think it will be a better match.  I can't see myself using the 110 ohm option.  The 20 ohm might be nice to cut hiss on very sensitive IEM's, and the 65 ohm will not quite get me to ER4S from ER4P.  I actually have an APureSound P cable which measures 20 ohm, rather than the stock 25 ohm, so I'll end up at 85 ohm.  I can always mess with the resistors in the cable if I feel the urge.  As for the cap change, I doubt I'd hear the difference.


----------



## cn11

That's almost funny! Robert is sure one guy who cannot rest on his laurels!


----------



## aamefford

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> That's almost funny! Robert is sure one guy who cannot rest on his laurels!


 

 Yeah, I've just started following the history.  I hope my suspicions aren't true - that I just added 3 months to my wait time!  I probably won't last that long...


----------



## cn11

For sure... I feel your pain. I have the first Arrow, and am just waiting word from Robert that he's ready to do the trade-in deal. I suspect that by the time he's ready, he'll be on G6!


----------



## dizzyraider

I think the reason the early orders took so long was that the G2 was still in the pre-production stage at the time. Now that Robert is cranking out the amps (although there are different versions, they are all minor changes), I'm sure it won't take as long as the early orders.


----------



## Anaxilus

The 2G was obviously quite a development process.  Until further details on the 3G everything else are refinements.  I will certainly be keen to hear a consistent slew of positive impressions to warrant me sending my Arrow back for an upgrade.


----------



## syaknikwa

Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> Direct Copy and Past from Headphonia forum page.
> 
> 
> *Arrow Change Log*
> ...


 

 there's another version coming out??? I'm really confuse now hahahah 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





coz i dunno anything about the resistor stuff so which one will be better for me coz i will be using my HP: AKG 271mkII and IEM: westone um3x dcv+LOD+Ipod touch 4g? please help me guys.. thank you..


----------



## nighteyes

Quote: 





aamefford said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 I think Robert saw your post... or received a ton of emails asking the same thing, because now it says:
   
   
  Quote: 





> [size=medium]*Arrow G3.0* - will start to ship at the end of November (please write me if you prefer this version)
> 
> - Change of output resistors to 0/20/65 (better control of treble)
> - Additional ceramic capacitors to lower impedance of tantalum caps (virtual better treble but barely noticeable)
> - Much faster production (I will observe the assembly of the PCBs myself)​[/size]


----------



## Anaxilus

That's pretty funny.


----------



## gazar

I just had a guy, from a UK Hi Fi forum, Who is bedridden for 16 hours a day, for health reasons obviously, asking me about the best speakers for near field listening. With brackets that swing around his obviously horizontal position.
   
  Right away , i thought headphones are the answer. so i passed him on to you lot.
   
  He probably wish i did not cause its gonna cost him a fortune.
   
  Apologies :back on track, where is my arrow 3G


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





gazar said:


> With brackets that swing around his obviously horizontal position.


 

 Obviously he needs a K1000 w/ a solid DAC and Amp strapped to his chest.  He'll get better in no time.


----------



## zappp

Off Topic
   
  Most full size headphone and in particular AKG K1000 are not practical for use in bed, at least not when resting on the pillow. IEMs are.
   
  The usual suspects for professional nearfield monitors are Mackie, Genelec, Dynaudio (Pro), Adam, ME Geithain and KS Digital.
   
  On topic
   
  The Arrow, or any headphone amp, work as pre-amp, too...


----------



## syaknikwa

so what version will drive my akg 271 mkII and westone um3x? i ordered the Arrow few weeks ago which i think is the arrow v2.1 or 2.2, but there new version coming out.. so which one should i prefer?.. should i  upgrade from my current version to arrow G3 or just stay on my current one?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





zappp said:


> Off Topic
> 
> Most full size headphone and in particular AKG K1000 are not practical for use in bed, at least not when resting on the pillow. IEMs are.
> 
> ...


 

 I was just being silly about the K1000.  Thats what happens when you omit emoticons.


----------



## s1rrah

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  My inner design geek really loves this guy.
   
  (and, I'm completely stoked on the 2G so I'm not gonna succumb)


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> (and, I'm completely stoked on the 2G so I'm not gonna succumb)


 

 Me too.  I would definitely want to hear the differences before sending it back to 'upgrade'.


----------



## dizzyraider

After a good 4 month wait, I finally received my Arrow 2.2 today  
  Upon receiving it, I immediately tore the package apart to get to the amp. Today is not a good day to be that envelope that holds the Arrorw.
   
  Early Impression:
   
  This amp is really small! Its width is around the same a my S9 and the height is around 3mm shorter. Its thickness is around the same as the old iPod Shuffle. 
   
  The casing itself feels quite solid. It is of metal material (not sure if it is aluminum, but definitely not heavy), it has that nice cold to the touch feel.
   
  The feature switches feel solid (Bass/Cross/Gain/Imp), and they seem to stick out at a perfect amount. If you have the amp in your pocket, you definitely won't have to worry about the switch getting tangled and move by itself.
   
   
  When I plugged my S9 to the amp, the red power LED came on immediately with zero lag. Robert really made sure that the auto-on feature is a feature and not an annoyance. Attention to detail is always appreciated


----------



## SoulSyde

Thanks for your initial impressions you lucky man!


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Thanks for your initial impressions you lucky man!


----------



## syaknikwa

poor envelope LOL... i'm glad that you already received your arrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> Today is not a good day to be that envelope that holds the Arrorw.


----------



## nsx_23

I wonder if I'll need a very flexible LOD to connect my iPod video to the Arrow.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





nsx_23 said:


> I wonder if I'll need a very flexible LOD to connect my iPod video to the Arrow.


 

 I have a nice one with a Pailiccs plug for real cheap if you're interested.  Just PM me.


----------



## zaphod-159

so the arrow 3.0 starts shipping in November(this month) ?


----------



## ppmd

^ It does say on the changelog that it would be shipping by the end of November.  
   
  The wait probably wont be as long as for the 2.0 so long as there aren't anymore production problems. Changelog also says Rob will be overseeing the production of the PCBs himself too, so there shouldn't be any problems.


----------



## 129207

I still own the 1G without the final casing; and people here are already talking about the 3G!


----------



## rehabitat

Me too.  Time for a trade up methinks.


----------



## nsx_23

I thought you can't trade in an Arrow...


----------



## Mediaogre

You guys are killing me. ^^You can trade in. Rob supports it - even encourages it. However, I have and _love_ the 1G. And mine has the dope laser stamping. (Yay!) The 1G has the "light stick" power switch and I adore it. My Cowon J3 and Arrow had an argument last night after the J3 woke up from a nap and Arrow didn't want to talk to him (Arrow wouldn't auto-power on). I just had toggle the light stick and all was well. It was comforting to have the tactile troubleshooting option. Until my little illuminated proboscis falls off (that came out wrong) I'm sticking with my 1G.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> "Until my little illuminated proboscis falls off..."


 


  That very well may be the quote of the week.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mediaogre

^^ Oh, man! Thanks, Anaxilus. Perfect! I haven't seen that since it made the rounds in our IT department about five years ago. Good thing everyone remained intact.


----------



## MrProggie

I am satisfied with my amp as it is and don't want to upgrade just yet.
 Perhaps when he is releasing version 4.0 or 5.0 with balanced XLR and stuff I might feel the need for upgrade/buy from him again.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> I am satisfied with my amp as it is and don't want to upgrade just yet.
> Perhaps when he is releasing version 4.0 or 5.0 with balanced XLR and stuff I might feel the need for upgrade/buy from him again again.


 


  I am interested in this claim of better treble control.  I would like to hear more on that and what exactly that entails.


----------



## charlie0904

They mentioned no power switch, it detects signal turn on and off itself.
   
  wow.


----------



## nighteyes

A couple of question....
   
  Has anyone used the Arrow to drive the Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohm?
   
  Has anyone ordered the package of Headstage Arrow 12HE & USB DAC Stick Amp and received the USB DAC Stick?


----------



## dannytang

The USB DAC stick won't be shipped for quite some time, Rob had previously put it up for preorder, but it has since been taken down.


----------



## Anaxilus

Straight from the forum:
   
   

  Originally Posted by *Anaxilus* 


_ Just to clarify Rob. Those of us w/ the noisy click 2G will be able to update for free to 3G then?

 Could you also expand further on the treble improvement? 

 Also, will removing the 10ohm introduce more noise to the background? I wonder if some of us w/ no plans on owning a TF10 might benefit by keeping things the way the are? Obviously, you find it worthy enough to implement across your whole line._

 

  Everyone can upgrade their old generation. But not now when orders are piling up. 

 Removing the 10 ohm resistor increases slightly the noise and the turn-on pop (that's why it was there in the first place) and improves treble on very low impedance IEMs.


----------



## straden

I received arrow last week and had hours of listening with my fuze, d2 and se530 this amp does damn nice job with adding body / warmth with bass boost. (although, I get tired easily with bass these days)
  And at reasonable volume, this makes my se530 dead silent, there is no hiss at all. It feels like im in the pitch dark compared to night street with some lamp light. Also because it reduces hiss noise, I hear subtle notes clearer in the background.
   
  On the otherside, it's hard to explain but I find myself not liking this sound signature changes in the songs.
  It feels like i'm listening to songs in vacuum / underwater, and songs feel less airy with all the subtle noises cut out. (maybe I'm describing in a wrong way)
  I may return and just spend money toward custom iem instead of amp.
   
  Don't get me wrong tho, this amp will make those subtle notes stand out. I guess it's just not my cup of tea. This is my first time owning an amp, are amps like this in general?


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





straden said:


> I received arrow last week and had hours of listening with my fuze, d2 and se530 this amp does damn nice job with adding body / warmth with bass boost. (although, I get tired easily with bass these days)
> And at reasonable volume, this makes my se530 dead silent, there is no hiss at all which is good thing. It feels like im in the pitch dark compared to street with some lamp light during the night time. Also because it reduces hiss noise, I hear subtle notes clearer in the background.
> 
> On the otherside, it's hard to explain but I find myself not liking this sound signature changes in the songs.
> ...


 

 Nope, amps can be completely different from each other.  Each will have their own sound signatures and synergies with equipment, it's all up to how you like them.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





straden said:


> I received arrow last week and had hours of listening with my fuze, d2 and se530 this amp does damn nice job with adding body / warmth with bass boost. (although, I get tired easily with bass these days)
> And at reasonable volume, this makes my se530 dead silent, there is no hiss at all which is good thing. It feels like im in the pitch dark compared to street with some lamp light during the night time. Also because it reduces hiss noise, I hear subtle notes clearer in the background.
> 
> On the otherside, it's hard to explain but I find myself not liking this sound signature changes in the songs.
> ...


 

 For me the Arrow is a little dark too, its not airy. Some like this, others like myself don't. There is no right or wrong. Its all what you like or don't like.


----------



## Nirvana1000

Quote: 





straden said:


> I received arrow last week and had hours of listening with my fuze, d2 and se530 this amp does damn nice job with adding body / warmth with bass boost. (although, I get tired easily with bass these days)
> And at reasonable volume, this makes my se530 dead silent, there is no hiss at all. It feels like im in the pitch dark compared to night street with some lamp light. Also because it reduces hiss noise, I hear subtle notes clearer in the background.
> 
> On the otherside, it's hard to explain but I find myself not liking this sound signature changes in the songs.
> ...


 

 So by your description the Arrow does not have big sound staging?This would be a deal breaker as my ALO Mini^3 has a pleasingly huge sound stage.And i do not want downgrade in replacing it with the Arrow.


----------



## straden

I dont have arrow with me now because im outside
But from my memory, soundstage didnt change but it feels slightly less airy as its darker than unamped
Because its darker, subtle notes tend to be clearer to notice like tiny light in dark stands out


----------



## dfkt

The Arrow's channel separation (= soundstage, more or less) is dependent on the impedance of the attached phones, as is the case with many players and amps - or at least on the first generation Arrow it was. Not sure if the new redesigns changed anything in that aspect. The lower the phone impedance, the more pronounced the stereo channel crosstalk. I haven't really tested if adding impedance to low-impedance IEMs changes the channel separation.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





nirvana1000 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Just to chime in on the soundstage issue. I would say that the Arrow maintains the soundstage already being output by your DAP. This is important to me as well as I use my Arrow amp with an S:flo 2, a player which I appreciate very much because of it's truly awesome imaging and sound stage; the Arrow does nothing to either accentuate or detract from this very nice quality of the S:flo 2 player.
   
  Also, I have never noticed it as being particularly "dark" or "airy" ... to me, it's always sounded quite neutral and if I had to say anything, I would have to echo what the *anythingbutipod reviewer *says and that is that the Arrow simply conveys the music as it arrives from the player, that it doesn't color or change the sound in anyway. 
   
  But we all hear different and so just adding some counterpoint and not arguing. 
   
  Best.
   
  .joel.


----------



## Madgravity34

Hey guys I have an honest question regarding the use of the Arrow (I have the 2G) with a iMod/WhipMod/DIYmod. Currently, my LOD has 47uF BG caps installed, but I want to experiment with a all copper LOD (to slightly warm up the sound) and I am curious if there is even a need for output capacitors with the Arrow. In a previous post where someone outlined the differences between the different revisions of the Arrow, it appears there are ceramic (or tantalum?) input capacitors. So does this mean that the Blackgates in my LOD are redundant? Also, what negative effects will having two sets of input capacitors have if any? And if I rely solely on the Arrows input caps, do you think I will experience any bass roll-off or any adverse effects to the SQ?
   
  I am trying to experiment with the sound of my system, because somehow (using Silver-plated wiring internally, as well as the LOD wiring, and Twag cables) seems to have made my custom UM3x's slighly sibilant. These IEMS are supposed to be very resiliant to sibilance, although they sound awesome with a huge soundstage and great clarity, I am considering some minor changes to tweak this.
   
   
  Thanks for all the help !


----------



## average_joe

Personally, I think the sound is better with good external caps than without (and using just the amp input caps).  I have a theory (better caps perform better when there is a DC offset), but can't say for sure why.  My experience has been with multiple amps and my Fuze as well as my modded iPod.


----------



## aamefford

Any updates on received order numbers?  Mine is 2783, still processing.  It is a g3.0, supposed to ship in November...


----------



## SoulSyde

2852, reporting for duty.  "Still processing" sir.


----------



## claybum

2528 was shipped on nov. 13th, but still has not arrived. Anybody know what shipping service these arrive from in the US.


----------



## syaknikwa

OMG!!! my order number: 2836 just shipped!!!! not XD.. mine is a G3 as well.. i thought it is supposed to shipped at the end of November...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...


----------



## SoulSyde

Yeah!  Mine must be shipping soon then.


----------



## pseudohippy

2880 here and hunkering down for a long wait


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> 2528 was shipped on nov. 13th, but still has not arrived. Anybody know what shipping service these arrive from in the US.


 
   

  A simple search of this thread would give you that answer many times over....it's standard mail and the time can vary depending on customs and postal traffic...Christmas time not being optimal to say the least.


----------



## syaknikwa

soulsyde said:


> Yeah!  Mine must be shipping soon then.







My post was just a joke.... sorry to disapoint u... I did include the "not" there... :> :rolleyes: so there is really a long wait... i was hoping to get the amp this dec... /sob


----------



## syaknikwa

i wish rob live here in the US... hahaha XD.. eventhough the amp will be shipped i think you still need to wait a couple of weeks.... arrrggghhhh... i really suck @ waiting.. probably the longest wait of my life...


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





claybum said:


> 2528 was shipped on nov. 13th, but still has not arrived. Anybody know what shipping service these arrive from in the US.


 


  My 2524 was shipped 3 days before yours (11/10) and arrived on the 17th via USPS along with my normal mail. That was about how long it took for the USB DAC cable to arrive back in July. Although I think there were cases where it took a bit longer for others.


----------



## Madgravity34

Just so everyone knows, Robert replied to my inquiry and let me know that,despite the fact the Arrow has input coupling caps, using a DIYmod/iMod/Whipmod directly with the Arrow (without output caps) would probably end up damaging the volume control.
   
   
  I hope everyone who has been waiting for their arrow gets them soon!
   
   
  Also, can I make a comment and say I am surprised how little people have actually written specific "impressions" of the Arrow in this thread. I mean, don't get me wrong, I am still letting my system burn-in before I review the overall sound, but I have read this whole thread and not found a thorough review of peoples thoughts and how they would compare it to other amps. And I am talking specifics, like how they would compare treble, mids, bass, clarity, neutrality, etc. All I have seen is "OMG the Arrow is awesome! Its better!"   
   
  Seems a little un-headfi-like.
   
   
  Once again NO OFFENSE guys, just pointing out a simple observation. Feel free to correct me!


----------



## pseudohippy

OMG its Awesome!!!!!


----------



## SoulSyde

Did you get yours?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> OMG its Awesome!!!!!


 

 x2.  It's so much better!!


----------



## maverickronin

Does anyone have the 3G yet?  I'm wondering if its still quiet with sensitive IEMs at the zero output impedance?


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Does anyone have the 3G yet?  I'm wondering if its still quiet with sensitive IEMs at the zero output impedance?


 


 The site says that they will start to ship beginning of December so it shoudnt be long now.


----------



## maverickronin

Alright then.  Thanks.


----------



## Golden Monkey

God, I sure hope so.  I ordered mine on 11/16 (#2873), and I can't stand having to wait for it!


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





madgravity34 said:


> Just so everyone knows, Robert replied to my inquiry and let me know that,despite the fact the Arrow has input coupling caps, using a DIYmod/iMod/Whipmod directly with the Arrow (without output caps) would probably end up damaging the volume control.
> 
> 
> I hope everyone who has been waiting for their arrow gets them soon!
> ...


 
   
  I think most of us feel that this head-fier pretty much said it all
   
http://anythingbutipod.com/2010/04/headstage-arrow-12he-headphone-amplifier-review/


----------



## Burma Jones

Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> Direct Copy and Past from Headphonia forum page.
> 
> 
> *Arrow Change Log*
> ...


 
  So what is the real difference between the G2.2 vs the G3.0 ?


----------



## rehabitat

Madgravity is right.  Aside from dfkt @ ABI, no-one here has put forward a serious and comprehensive review of the Arrow.  None of our in-house semi-professional reviewers seem all that inclined to consider reviewing the Arrow.  This is an incredible shame, given that the Arrow is such a unique and versatile product.
   
  I may be wrong, but I got the feeling a while back that some older members may have personal issues with Robert.  But who cares, we know where the smart money is, don't we?


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> I may be wrong, but I got the feeling a while back that some older members may have personal issues with Robert.  But who cares, we know where the smart money is, don't we?


 

  
  I do have to say that I'm getting a little impatient waiting for mine.  Patience is not a virtue of mine... unfortunately.  This really appears to be a good amp on paper and the reviews (albeit few and far between) are overwhelmingly positive, but dare I say that if this device doesn't ship soon I may ask for a refund and buy a Stepdance.


----------



## SoulSyde

Update: I just corresponded with Rob via e-mail and he has assured me that mine will ship in the next couple of weeks.  My patience has been restored (temporarily).


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Update: I just corresponded with Rob via e-mail and he has assured me that mine will ship in the next couple of weeks.  My patience has been restored (temporarily).


 

  
  I hope he means the whole production run of the G3's...otherwise I'm going to go insane.


----------



## SoulSyde

From the sound of it, he's been able to speed up the manufacturing and shipping process.. but we'll see.


----------



## SoulSyde

@DizzyRaider, have you been able to spend enough "quality time" with your new found friend to offer up a more detailed review?


----------



## mythless

If I can get my hands on the Arrow, I wouldn't mind writing a review for it.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> I may be wrong, but I got the feeling a while back that some older members may have personal issues with Robert.  But who cares, we know where the smart money is, don't we?


 
   
  @ rehabitat I don't think you are wrong at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Regarding many of the recent posts in this thread; it seems people are more interested in complaining about waiting even though it has been repeatedly pointed out there is a dedicated thread for that.
   
  I intended to write a detailed review of the Arrow but own the 1G and couldn't add anything to the brilliant review by dtfk (which I linked to again a few posts back). All I _can_ say is that my impressions are near identical to his and until I get a newer gen Arrow it would be kind of pointless to write a review of an amp that is now revamped.
  Even though the changes have been small I don't think most want a review of an amp that is no longer available. Soooo....all you 2G owners, it's up to you until I can "upgrade" mine   From what I've read it seems to be more of a revision or tweaking of the original Arrow as opposed to a big upgrade. It's difficult to improve on something as close to perfect as the 1G Arrow. The additional bass boost potential and the auto-on-off feature would be nice to have but I don't often feel the need for more or better bass and like the lighted switch too. I still hear the 1G to have the best SQ for the money out there (and perhaps regardless of cost below $400 -> $500). I suppose I need to say I haven't heard every new amp out there but I really don't think there is much to improve on. It is certainly one of the most portable, well designed and best sounding units on the market. If (and it's a big if) some newer amp has managed to surpass it in _any_ area I believe it would have to be at the expense of either form, battery life or some other feature I have grown to love about the Arrow.
   
  I personally believe that much is often made of very minute "improvements" between different amps. These often end up being not _really_ SQ improvements but a different presentation. The Arrow is an accurate, incredibly versatile amp with a fairly neutral sound sig. It might lean a _bit_ to the warm side but I often use the infamously "dark" HD650s with it. It is non-fatiguing for hours at a time and just plain does what an amp is supposed to do. If and when any shortcomings have been noticed and pointed out they have been addressed in future revisions/runs. I for one could not ask for a better portable amp and would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone looking for top-tier portable listening. I had to go to a balanced desk-top set-up to get enough of an improvement to warrant more money. But hey, I'm not a _real_ reviewer so what do I know?


----------



## eisono

*[size=x-small]Order number:2702 (Order processing).[/size]*
   
  [size=x-small]Still hasn't shipped !! Oh well I can bare the wait.  I was planning to pair it up with the Sennheiser HD650 due to the reviews in this thread, but Amazon recently rose the price up $50 because of Christmas.[/size]


----------



## SoulSyde

Hellenbeck, thank you for your impressions of your 1G.  Dfkt's review was so thorough that it's probably hard to further elaborate on his thoughts, but It's nice to hear that many who own the original version still love and enjoy theirs without the yearning for the latest and greatest.
   
  To your point about many of the recent posts, I'm sure I fit into your column of complainers.  Oh well.  The OP asked people to give their "thoughts, opinions, documented reviews, tips and issues on the new Headstage, Arrow HE headphone amp."  Rob's shipping time and estimates are overpromised and underdelivered, so my only opinions thus far are on the process of purchasing one.  That being said, I'm sure it's all worth it in the end because there are hardly any negative comments about this amp to be found anywhere (sans shipping/building time).
   
  Speaking for most of us "patient" consumers, we're just anxious to get ours.
   
  I do want to add that my recent correspondence with Rob was very nice.  He seems like a nice guy who is just overwhelmed with orders... A good problem to have I guess.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Hellenback, it pleases me to hear that you can drive the HD650 with the Arrow.  Other than as an intellectual exercise I don't see myself actually running mine off of it for long, but it's nice to know the little amp can pull it off!


----------



## Hellenback

@ SoulSyde
   
  To be honest I never noticed which particular person said what, I just noticed very few actual impressions as opposed to posts about waiting. Although I empathize with the overly long wait time (which appears to be lessening) there are very few items on head-fi that have a dedicated thread for talking about how long the wait time is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/461344/oh-where-oh-where-has-my-slim-arrow-gone-oh-where-oh-where-can-it-be/750
   
  Quote:


> He seems like a nice guy who is just overwhelmed with orders..


 
  I too think this is exactly the situation....especially near the beginning after the Arrow first began making waves.
   
  @ Golden Monkey
   
  I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at just how well the Arrow handles many full sized headphones. There are of course other good portable amps but I have yet to find one that is able to adapt so well to such a variety of head/earphones and yet be virtually unnoticeable in your pocket.


----------



## Golden Monkey

I just can't wait to see how sexy it'll be strapped to my Cowon J3, with a Whiplash TWag/Oyaide interconnect, driving T50p's or my SM3's...the Arrow should totally be worth the wait, but if it can handle an HD650 with aplomb, well...that's just gravy.


----------



## proedros

so how long is the waiting time atm ?
   
  thinking of buying one , but i wanna know the delivery times....


----------



## Qonad

Anyone looking to buy the arrow amp, i have one for sale at the original price + shipping (Robert's shipping is free because its unregistered)
   
  Its brand new and i should be receiving it on monday or wednesday latest.
   
  PM me for more details. You really have nothing to lose but all to gain especially the waiting time this has.


----------



## SoulSyde

@proedros, unknown right now.  2+ months maybe.


----------



## proedros

Thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Guess i can wait a couple of months then....
  
  Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> @proedros, unknown right now.  2+ months maybe.


----------



## Nirvana1000

Would anyone be able to give a comparison between the Arrow and the Meier 2Move and/or XXS?It would be much appreciated.


----------



## dfkt

I wrote a short comparison between the two in my review.


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> @DizzyRaider, have you been able to spend enough "quality time" with your new found friend to offer up a more detailed review?


 


  Hahaha, I have spent around 30 some hours with it and it's all with smiles. Not sure if it's burned in yet, but I thought it sounded pretty darn good right out of the box. I haven't had the time to listen to my (now my brother's ) SolderMonkey's upgraded Mini^3. I have been doing most my listening at night before going to sleep since I've been pretty busy the past few weeks. When I do get a chance to do the comparison with the Mini^3 and possibly the now extinct mSeed Labs Spirit amp, I'll be sure to post something up. Because quite frankly without a comparison with another amp, all I can really say is how well this amp sounds (which is pretty much everything).
   
  Sound Impressions
   
  The amp provides plenty of current (likely due to the powerful AD8397) to make my Grado happy. The highs aren't bright, but nice and clean, while the same thing can also be use to describe the lower frequencies. The bass isn't exaggerated nor is it bloated, it is just clean with impact.
  There isn't much to say about the mid besides that is sounds lush and full, very satisfying.
  I find the sound stage to be excellent and the clarity is also outstanding.
  The above were my thoughts on the amp with bass set at 0
   
  For good volume with the Grado and Ultrasone, the pot is turned about 3/4 with the gain set to 1 (keep in mind that Cowon S9 as a source isn't as loud as your typical line out and was set at 32/40 ). With gain set to 2, good volume is achieved at about 1/3 to 1/2.
   
  With the bass set to 1, the lower frequencies are boosted by quite a bit. Listening to The Temper Trap's Sweet Disposition, the kick drum sounds like its just behind the other instruments (clean sounding btw). With bass set to 1, the kick drum sounds like it's right next to your ear sounding nice and deep. With bass set to 2, my Grado's will start to rattle because the bass is just too powerful. 
  With Kanye's Love Lockdown, you can definitely feel the bass even with the setting at 0, once again the bass become too strong for my Grado, but this time 1 will cause a slight rattle and 2 sounds like its going to blow the drivers. But then again, the song Love Lockdown is incredibly bassy to begin with. Overall, I love being able to turn up the bass whenever I encounter a song that I think lacks bass. As dfkt's review mentioned, the 9db boost is "noticeable" (bass boost 1), while I would describe the 9db+9db bass boost as "holy crap!" (bass boost 2)
   
  I'm not sure how to describe crossfeed feature as I never had an amp with this function before. The soundstage sounds the widest with the function off and more intimate as more crossfeed that you get. A fun feature to play with. You can get more detail and better understanding of this feature by reading dkft's comprehensive review of the Gen1 Arrow.
   
  Almost forgot to mention the battery life. This amp's battery life is incredibly impressive. I have already had to recharge my S9 3 times while the Arrow is still not in need of a recharge. Quite frankly, I'm starting to think this thing is solar powered and charges itself during the day... just incredible.
   
  My S9 strapped to the Arrow G2.2

   
  A side by side look
   

   
  A thickness comparison
   

   
  and finally, the setup
   

   
   
  *Updated with pics


----------



## SoulSyde

You the man DizzyRaider.   Thanks for the review.
   
  Your impressions of the crossfeed feature are accurate.  Soundstage typically collapses when the channels blend.  This is a good thing when you're listening to a lot of classic rock songs with wild panning (i.e. Floyd, Jimi, etc.).
   
  Looking forward to the pics.  I'm curious to see how it pairs with the S9.


----------



## davewave

Where'd ya get those bands? I need them.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Nice rig!


----------



## SoulSyde

Looking good DizzyRaider.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





davewave said:


> Where'd ya get those bands? I need them.


 


http://www.amazon.com/Nuforce-Silicone-Band-Pack-3/dp/B001U5YMGW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=office-products&qid=1291599985&sr=8-1


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





davewave said:


> Where'd ya get those bands? I need them.


 


   http://lmgtfy.com/?q=NuForce+Silicone+Band


----------



## SoulSyde

Wow, harsh... but funny.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Wow, harsh... but funny.


 


 What can I say SoulSyde, your a better man than me   
  I hope he doesnt take it serious, it was just meant to be funny and a reminder that sometimes it takes longer to ask and get an answer than it does to search google.


----------



## SoulSyde

I have them so I knew who makes it, but if you search for "icon band" you might get this instead...

   
  Knowing the Nuforce part certainly helps.
   
  You had me laughing though.


----------



## syaknikwa

Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nice setup dizzyraider ^_^


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





davewave said:


> Where'd ya get those bands? I need them.


 

 As SoulSyde pointed, I picked them up from Amazon. I have found them to work really well because they are a lot tighter than the typical wristband type, it is very elastic too (keep in mind they are clear, so if you have it going across your screen, you can see right through it). Also unlike ALO who charges $10 for 3 of their hold-together rubber band, a pack of 3 nuforce costs $3. Not too bad if you ask me.
   

  
  Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Nice rig!


 
      Quote:


soulsyde said:


> Looking good DizzyRaider.


 

     Quote:


syaknikwa said:


> Nice setup dizzyraider ^_^


 


  Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully you will all receive your amp soon. I have to tell ya, I understand your pain waiting for the amp to finally ship and arrive.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> I have to tell ya, I understand your pain waiting for the amp to finally ship and arrive.


 

 It really does suck.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   I like this.


----------



## syaknikwa

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  X2 to that...


----------



## Nirvana1000

Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice first impressions review.I know like you do that the S9 benefits greatly combined with an amp.It's sounds fantastic with my ALO Mini^3.What UCI are you using on your S9?Looks slick.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





> Quite frankly, I'm starting to think this thing is solar powered and charges itself during the day...


 
   
  x2.
   
  LOL.


----------



## SoulSyde

Guys (I assume), I don't want to be a buzz-kill here, but please don't quote an entire review and/or photos in a reply.  When replying to a post that does not immediately proceed your reply you can address the poster by saying:
   
  @dizzyraider, [insert your reply here...]
   
  It's just a pain in the *ss to scroll through a re-post of an entire review just to hear you liked it, especially if I happen to be on a smart phone.
   
  I'm not trying to be mean, just passing along some helpful netiquette tips.


----------



## davewave

It takes alot more than that to offend me!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Honestly, I was looking at the pics with a not very good monitor and couldn't see the NuForce branding.
  Anyway, now that I've got an audience with you smart guys, can you recommend a good quality LOD cable for iPod that doesn't cost more than $100?  I tried to get by with the FiiO L3 but the sound was so terrible I initially thought the Arrow was defective; fortunately I had a SendStation lying around and was able to confirm that it was the cable's fault, not the amp's.  But the SendStation isn't that great either and the cable is way too long.
  Ideally what I'd like is something with right-angle plugs (both ends) to minimize added length to the whole rig.  My google searches (yes, I DO know how to use google!!) have yielded a few products in the $120+ range (including RSA, the Ear Candy Lite on TTVJ) but I'd prefer to stay well south of a Benjamin (at least for now).  Any suggestions?


----------



## SoulSyde

I have one that I used back in my iPod ownership days I could get your way for real cheap.  PM me if you're interested.
   
  Otherwise, I did own an iBasso one a while back that sounded pretty good to me.  I only got rid of it when I sold off my old iBasso amp.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quables has a lot of good LOD's well below your $100 limit, many with right-angle connectors: http://www.qables.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=105


----------



## Redmetal1897

Hey guys, where is the best place to pick one of these up? Thanks


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





daanish said:


> Hey guys, where is the best place to pick one of these up? Thanks


 


 ONLY place (besides maybe on the FS forum here) is directly from Rob himself: http://www.headphonia.com/The-Arrow-Amp:::1012.html


----------



## Redmetal1897

Thanks!
  
  Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## proedros

Is there a better amp at that price-level ?
   
  I am kinda noobie , and 300$ seem like a lot of money so i am thinking whether i will get a sound improvement that justifies spending such a large amount of money
   
  help me out here folks


----------



## SoulSyde

I would say that you would likely get a "no" answer from the followers of this thread.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





proedros said:


> Is there a better amp at that price-level ?
> 
> I am kinda noobie , and 300$ seem like a lot of money so i am thinking whether i will get a sound improvement that justifies spending such a large amount of money
> 
> help me out here folks


 


 That right there is a seriously loaded question. It depends on a lot of factors of which I know none. For instance, how do your phones and player synergize. Are they the proper impedance for the player? Perhaps they are super sensitive ie. SE530 and you want to add impedance so that you can eliminate that static that some find appauling. Perhaps your phones are high impedance and not very sensitive and your portable player isnt pushing them well enough and they sound thin and dull. An amp can open them up and make them sound correct. If you already have a player with matched phones why would you want an amp? I think perhaps more research through head-fi, wiki and the internet overall is in order. Research all the specifications of your headphones, what those specifications mean and then learn what all the specs of an amp mean and try to make a match. Educateing yourself is the best thing you can do.


----------



## proedros

first of all , thanx for answering and helping me out with such a detailed way
   
  trust me , i have done my reading and i am asking more for a vote of confidence here
   
*i have a pair of re-262 (150ohm) with a clip+*
   
  concerning the *synergy* , as you put it, i would love hearing about these *3(clip+/262/arrow)* in particular but so far nobody has come up with an answer so i am in the dark
   
  I just want to know if there's gonna be a big improvement that justfies spending 300$ and this can ony be answered by someone already in the place i am about to embark to (arrow owner)
   
  again thank you very much for helping out , much appreciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> That right there is a seriously loaded question. It depends on a lot of factors of which I know none. For instance, how do your phones and player synergize. Are they the proper impedance for the player? Perhaps they are super sensitive ie. SE530 and you want to add impedance so that you can eliminate that static that some find appauling. Perhaps your phones are high impedance and not very sensitive and your portable player isnt pushing them well enough and they sound thin and dull. An amp can open them up and make them sound correct. If you already have a player with matched phones why would you want an amp? I think perhaps more research through head-fi, wiki and the internet overall is in order. Research all the specifications of your headphones, what those specifications mean and then learn what all the specs of an amp mean and try to make a match. Educateing yourself is the best thing you can do.


----------



## Anaxilus

^
   
  Are you going to wear the Clip over the waistband and run a LO, err mini-mini, into an Arrow into your pants pocket?  That combination just seems odd to me, like a Fuze might have been a better match and offered LO capability?


----------



## SoulSyde

I haven't seen anyone on this forum with that exact setup, but 150 Ohm headphones usually benefit from an external amplifier.
   
  Synergy is a lot of trial and error.  The Clip+ should pair will with that amp, but if the REs don't you might find another set of headphones that do either now or down the road.
   
  Come on, spend the $300 and let us know what you think of that heaphone/amp/source combination.


----------



## pseudohippy

Honestly, Im not part of the bat ear contingent. So personally I dont notice much of a difference with amps in general. For me what an amp does is correct problems if any even exist. With some of my setups Id say an amp does nothing for them. Others like I mentioned above need a correction. I know this doesnt really answer your question but I dont have your setup to give you an opinion. I do think its a little odd to have such a tiny compact player like the clip+ and pair it with a big ole amp. Kinda defeats the purpose of the player but to each his own and if you like using it in that fashion I certainly see no problems with it. The clip+ is a wonderful player but I suspect you might need the amp with the phones you have. Ohms alone doesnt tell the whole story on how sensitive your phones are though. So I still dont know if you really need an amp for those phones or not. Perhaps there is a owners thread for your phones here on head-fi that can direct you to what sources and amps work well with them.
   
  Sorry I couldnt help more.


----------



## mythless

I've used tried the Arrow out of the Fuze, and it sounded great when I paired it with the RE252.  Doesn't really help, but it might give you an idea.


----------



## proedros

thanx for all the feedback guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  regarding the *clip+ /arrow* outdoor questions , *i am gonna use the amp only when indoors* i guess (outdoors i will use my re-zero which are less expensive and thus nerve-wrecking if damaged)
   
*i may upgrade at some point* to a better DAP (j3 ?) but *my main concern/goal is whether this amp can make the clip/262 synergy even better *, that's the focal point
   
  ok , to put it another way
   
*would you rather spend some money to get the arrow OR to upgrade from clip+ to J3 ?  *




   
   
   
  Also *thanx for mentiong that the arrow works great with the 252* as well , as this means i coud use it for my 252 besides the 262  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  damn I love this forum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (even though it makes me spend way more money than i thought  )


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





proedros said:


> Is there a better amp at that price-level ?
> 
> I am kinda noobie , and 300$ $265 seem like a lot of money so i am thinking whether i will get a sound improvement that justifies spending such a large amount of money
> 
> help me out here folks


 

 As indicated the price is $265 not $300 and I personally doubt very much you will get a better amp for this amount of money. When people speak of synergy I start to cringe a bit as IMO a good amp should drive _most_ headphones well (unless specifically designed for IEMs) Whether the improvement is worth it is up to the ears of the person listening. The thing that makes it easier to recommend the Arrow for most set-ups is it's exceptional adaptability (all the settings). If you are looking primarily for more clean, clear volume I doubt you will be disappointed. If for some reason you are, I believe there is a 30 day money back guaranty so all you are out is the very little it costs to mail it back.


----------



## Golden Monkey

I have the J3 with an Arrow on the way...someday...but let me tell you the J3 sounds fantastic.  It uses a Wolfson DAC chip, and the JetEffect 3.0 & BBE+ EQ settings really allow you to sculpt the sound to your liking with any headphone.  You get a lot of different degrees of effects and flavor, but they still manage to sound "right"...maybe not 100% natural, but leagues better than any Dolby Headphone or preset EQ I've come across before.  The interface and features are awesome too, not to mention the AMOLED screen.  I'd say bang for your buck wise if you were looking for either a J3 OR an Arrow, I'd definitely go for the J3.  Both allow you a lot of versatility, bass boost, crossfeed (the J3 does something different, but the effect amounts to a crossfeed-like output), and they both drive a large array of phones well (the J3 has no problem with any of my phones except the HD650, but can even drive the 150 ohm Ety ER-4S just fine).


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





proedros said:


> thanx for all the feedback guys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Source is always important.  I have the Fuze and at one point I thought about replacing it, I am sure they're better DAPs out there but I really like the Fuze, size, line-out feature with expandable memory is really hard to beat, especially for the price.  It's all up to you.  Either way, you'll see benefits from either a new DAP or amp.  However, since you have the RE262, I don't know if the J3 can properly drive them.


----------



## proedros

*From the headstage site concerning the price of the arrow*
   
*US $ 265.00  excl. VAT *
   
   
   
  i may be noobie but i know how much an amp costs my friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  not big of a difference to me/you , but someone out there may not  think the same
   
   
   
  anyway the whole feedback from everyone here has helped me clear this matter in my head
   
  money-wise J3 seems better , BUT i already have a dap (clip+) and i don't have an amp , and judging by my 262 i think an amp will help em out
   
  besides as rawster mentioned in another thread , the 262 really drain the battery of his J3
   
*so it's gonna go for the  arrow first(if/when) , J3 LATER and if i don't like it i can always return it (the 1st bold is false , but the 2nd one is mighty true and helpful)*
   
  Thanx for your help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

  
  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Golden Monkey

Has ANYBODY in the 2,800's (order number) received theirs yet, by any chance, or gotten "item shipped" notification?  If you've gotten yours in the past few days or so, can you please list what order number you had?  Thx!


----------



## Redmetal1897

I'd be really interested to hear how the J3 goes with the Arrow! Might get one myself if your experience is positive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Quote:



golden monkey said:


> I have the J3 with an Arrow on the way...someday...but let me tell you the J3 sounds fantastic.  It uses a Wolfson DAC chip, and the JetEffect 3.0 & BBE+ EQ settings really allow you to sculpt the sound to your liking with any headphone.  You get a lot of different degrees of effects and flavor, but they still manage to sound "right"...maybe not 100% natural, but leagues better than any Dolby Headphone or preset EQ I've come across before.  The interface and features are awesome too, not to mention the AMOLED screen.  I'd say bang for your buck wise if you were looking for either a J3 OR an Arrow, I'd definitely go for the J3.  Both allow you a lot of versatility, bass boost, crossfeed (the J3 does something different, but the effect amounts to a crossfeed-like output), and they both drive a large array of phones well (the J3 has no problem with any of my phones except the HD650, but can even drive the 150 ohm Ety ER-4S just fine).


----------



## syaknikwa

@Golden Monkey 2836 here.... still order processing


----------



## rrdubbs

What Golden Monkey says is so true. The J3 sound can be sculpted to any preferential soundscape your into. Its very flexible and drives all my cans very well. I just broke in my Grado 325is cans and I love the sound. Sure......out of the box, the Grados are bright, but the eq on the J3 allows me to tone the high end down to a level I can enjoy.
  I've also ordered the Arrow and hoping that the combination of the J3 and Arrow will do the Senn HD650 justice. We'll see?
  I'm order 2940. So I have a ways to go. I'll just enjoy the J3 until then.
  Golden Monkey, since you'll be getting your Arrow soon(er), I'd be interested on what your thoughts are with this lethal combination?


----------



## Golden Monkey

You can count on my impressions, no worries.  It'll be the J3 w/FLAC, Whiplash TWag mini, the Arrow, and the ESW9A's, Beyer T50p and the EarSonics SM3...should be FUN!


----------



## proedros

what is your current msg from order checkout ?
  
  Quote: 





rrdubbs said:


> What Golden Monkey says is so true. The J3 sound can be sculpted to any preferential soundscape your into. Its very flexible and drives all my cans very well. I just broke in my Grado 325is cans and I love the sound. Sure......out of the box, the Grados are bright, but the eq on the J3 allows me to tone the high end down to a level I can enjoy.
> I've also ordered the Arrow and hoping that the combination of the J3 and Arrow will do the Senn HD650 justice. We'll see?
> *I'm order 2940.* So I have a ways to go. I'll just enjoy the J3 until then.
> Golden Monkey, since you'll be getting your Arrow soon(er), I'd be interested on what your thoughts are with this lethal combination?


----------



## proedros

Hey mediogre help me out here please
   
*does the clip+ need a LO with the arrow or it's fine just the way it is ?*
   
  i am expecting a clip+ very soon and i wonder if besides the arrow , anything else is needed in order for maximum performance(a LO for instance) ...
   
  Thanx guys
  
  Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> I "have" to use my Clip+ in the server room today (And I'll be perfectly happy)... so
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rrdubbs

I ordered this several days ago actually. So the order is pending.
   
  I have a long way to go, so I'm hoping for a peek into similar combos. I'm excited at the prospect of getting a little bit more out of the J3 with a nice amp.
   
  I run a comparable lossless format. That being WMA. I have both. But my WMA library is much more complete. I had to move to WMA, cause my BMW sound system does not recognize FLAC. Only MP3 and WMA. Obviously, the lossless format has much greater detail than MP3.........undeniably better clarity, depth and sound stage. For me, the lossless format is the first step in reaching or experiencing audio nirvana. You gotta have a good source to start with. Bottom line.
   
  I'd like to know anyone's impressions of the 650's with a J3 and Arrow amp. I know this is not the most appropriate pairing. I don't plan on running around the neighborhood with the 650s as part of a portable setup. I use my portable to move about the house; as opposed to staying stationary and  tethered to fixed source like the computer or stereo.
   
  For me, having several types of cans and IEMs throws some variety into the mix.
   
  I've read alot of good things about the Senns650s. I'm sure the Arrow will provide ample amp needed to run these bad boys. I'd just like to hear other opinions and thoughts with similar combos.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





proedros said:


> Hey mediogre help me out here please
> 
> *does the clip+ need a LO with the arrow or it's fine just the way it is ?*
> 
> ...


 

 There is no LO for the Clip+.  However it has been mention if you set the Clip volume to zero you can essentially defeat the internal headphone amp thus converting it to LO.  Haven't tried this yet on mine since my Clip gets the least eartime of my DAPs.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





rrdubbs said:


> I'd like to know anyone's impressions of the 650's with a J3 and Arrow amp. I know this is not the most appropriate pairing. I don't plan on running around the neighborhood with the 650s as part of a portable setup. I use my portable to move about the house; as opposed to staying stationary and  tethered to fixed source like the computer or stereo.
> 
> I've read alot of good things about the Senns650s. I'm sure the Arrow will provide ample amp needed to run these bad boys. I'd just like to hear other opinions and thoughts with similar combos.


 

 I'm your man then!  I'll post details for you when I have the damn amp in hand, lol...


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





proedros said:


> *From the headstage site concerning the price of the arrow*
> 
> *US $ 265.00  excl. VAT *
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry...I got my price from here: http://www.headphonia.com/The-Arrow-Amp/Headstage-Arrow-12HE-3G-High-Efficiency::10138.html where no VAT is mentioned. We don't pay it in Canada (or the US) so it was an honest oversight. Would it not be the case that *every* amp would cost more (by the same percentage) than it's listed price in your country? If so, the price ratio _difference_ between amps remains the same.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If the J3 uses the Wolfson chip then it will likely sound a lot like the DAC cable (although probably potentially louder if using the HO). The Little Dot DAC which uses a single WM8740 sounded great as did the DacMagic which uses two of them. If you are asking if the J3 *needs* an amp with the HD650s I would certainly think so but I have not heard it as of yet. I use the Arrow with 650s and ended up with a Matrix Mini-i as a DAC (when not using the DAC cable). The Cowan J3 certainly sounds like it would be a great DAP


----------



## Golden Monkey

Oh yeah...the J3 can certainly...play music...through HD650's...but...not optimally, lol.
  /end Shatner voice


----------



## Golden Monkey

This just in, from the Hadphonia support forum:
   
   

  Posted by *syaknikwa:*
_ i thought the 3g is supposed to ship at the end of November???_
_ *Rob:* First batch went out this Monday. Just finishing the second batch...  _

   
   
  So, some are making it out the door...that's good news!  Also, the Arrow info page now states "*New orders will ship at the end of December 2010."*


----------



## claybum

I received an email on monday stating arrow 3.0 had shipped so I am part of the first batch. I had originally received shipping notice on nov 13th for Arrow 2.2. For some reason Robert decided to wait and send me the newer version which is fine with me. It has basically been a 5 month wait as I placed my order (#2528) on july 16th. I only freaked out about the wait a couple times keeping in mind I was eventually going to receive a great amp. My friend owns one of Robert's earlier model (lyrix I believe) and it was far superior to my ibasso D2boa. I hope production speeds up and everyone waiting for their amp doesn't have too big wait. Hopefully I will have mine in a week or so!!!


----------



## syaknikwa

so the first batch is still in orders 2500's? does anyone have theirs shipped that are orders 2600's or above...


----------



## Golden Monkey

I'd just like to know how many are in each "batch", then we could at least estimate...this sucks.


----------



## SoulSyde

I just posed a similar question to Rob on his forum.  I wanted to know what he means by a "batch" and what number he's up to in the shipping process.  I will let you know the answer.
   
  EDIT: ...if I get an answer.


----------



## dizzyraider

Not sure if it is still the same, but Rob has shipped in batches of 100 at a time. At least that was how he handled 2300, 2400, and 2500 orders.


----------



## rehabitat

Whereohwherehasmyslimarrowgone,whereohwherecanhebe?????


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> Whereohwherehasmyslimarrowgone,whereohwherecanhebe?????


 

 That should be the name of a thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 oh, wait a minute...it is! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/461344/oh-where-oh-where-has-my-slim-arrow-gone-oh-where-oh-where-can-it-be  What a coincidence!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  All kidding aside, I hope it arrives before Christmas so you can enjoy it over the holidays.


----------



## dizzyraider

Answering S9 question since there aren't much to update on the Arrow front...
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Nirvana1000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> What UCI are you using on your S9?Looks slick.


 


  I'm using Makeflow 1.04, it's a nice looking uci


----------



## proedros

Here's to hoping someone shall decide to sell his 3G version...once these finally ship.
   
  If you change your mind and wanna sell ,pm me.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Well, as Papa Smurf famously stated, "Not long now, my little Smurfs": From Rob, latest post on the "delivery timetable" thread, *"The next batch will cover almost all open orders. As I wrote the new generation is much easier to assemble but we still have to test them all carefully... "*
   
* *
   
  Things are coming together nicely...all the cans are in place (except the Beyer T50p's that died after two days), my Whiplash TWag mini-to-mini came today, I have lots of FLAC files loaded up on my J3, I have six or seven different types of tips to try out on the SM3's, and now this...here's just hoping shipping to the US doesn't take like three weeks or some crap...


----------



## syaknikwa

Thanks for the updating us Golden Monkey ..... I hope that we could get our amp this month so that we can enjoy the holidays
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





> *"The next batch will cover almost all open orders. As I wrote the new generation is much easier to assemble but we still have to test them all carefully... "*
> * *


 
  like the pic btw


----------



## Leander7777

I'm planning on purchasing  Alessandro Ms2i and I already have UE triplefi10s. I'd like to know how important it is to have a high quality amp. The Headstage Arrow seems to be the most interesting option, as it's ultra portable and can power both highly efficient and inefficient phones. However, after some research it seems that it'll cost me $315, which is more than the Alessandros (which is what I am primarily getting the amp for)... Do you guys think it's a justified purchase, I've never owned a portable amp, so I don't know how crucial a HQ amp is for the SQ of my tripleFi and Alessandro Ms2i. I'd also appreciate it if anyone would recommend similarly capable amps, which cost less.
   
  In addition, I'd also like to know how the shipping service of Headstage is, I've heard of people waiting 2-3 months. I don't think I can tolerate that...
  Cheers,
  Leander


----------



## pseudohippy

Well I own both MS2i and TripleFi10 so I could tell you what I think when it arrives.  As far as shipping goes he is making them one at a time for each order and testing them to his own specs so your getting a very nice piece of equipment that is worth waiting for. I recommend going and getting some factory production unit or another handmade amp that has been around long enough for there to be some laying around for sale. Otherwise just order and wait. It seems the speed has picked up considerably lately though so who knows, maybe not such a long wait.
   
  On the MS2i front. I have heard them on a very high end desk amp plugged into a very high end source once and they opened up a great deal and I couldnt believe what I was hearing. Im not that confident the arrow is gonna make much difference but we shall see soon enough. They do seemed under powered when used with a Cowon S9, j3 or Samsung P3.


----------



## Leander7777

Thanks for the reply.
  I think I'll end up ordering. Amps last for a long time, so I'd definitely prefer being suck with a decent amp rather than an amp that just gets the job gone.
   
  I opened a thread in the full sized headphones sub-forum on the Ms2i. I'd really like to know how they sound in relation to the TripleFis. I'm sort of torn between choosing the between the ultrasone pro 900 and the ms2i. I prefer the looks of the Grados, by a lot, and really want to get a piece of that unique Grado experience. However, the Ultrasones seem more portable and probably crater more to my type of music(check my post in the full sized HP section). From a factual standpoint, I should go for the Ultrasones, but my gut instinct tells me I should go for the Grados 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  In addition, I'd like to know how you alternate between the tripleFis and the ms2i. I know the ms2i aren't meant to be portable and I'm sure the UE are a lot better in that regard, but I'd still like to know how they stack up outdoors. Does the grill provide an cleanliness issues? It seems like a lot of undesired things could pass through the it...
   
  Cheers,
  Leander


----------



## proedros

LEANDER JUST A HEADS UP
   
*the arrow seems to not have a good synergy with the triple fis 10*
   
  check it out for yourself , but it seems most  tf10 owners are not that pleased...i may be wrong so check it out yourself
   
  Proedros


----------



## SoulSyde

I may be mistaken, but I believe the 3G version was built to correct the synergy issue with highly sensitive IEMs.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> I may be mistaken, but I believe the 3G version was built to correct the synergy issue with highly sensitive IEMs.


 

  
  That was version 2.2.  From the changelog: *"Change of output resistors from 10/75/120 to 0/65/110 (better synergy with some IEMs like Triple.Fi 10 which sound weird with any output resistor)"

  *


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   Im going off of memory here but doesnt the 3g also have a 0 minimum gain? All he is saying is the 2.2g offers an option of 0 ie no resistance and I believe the 3g continues this.


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





proedros said:


> LEANDER JUST A HEADS UP
> 
> *the arrow seems to not have a good synergy with the triple fis 10*
> 
> ...


 

 Let me chime in on that. The issues Triple.fi had with the Arrow was the output resister. It use to have a 10ohm resistance on its default setting and that was the issue Triple.fi had with the amp. Ever since the G2.2 (and now 3.0), the issues is no longer there. I can tell you from my setup that the Triple.fi will work just fine with the Arrow.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  According to the info page, the 3G features 1.2dB, 10.5dB, and 20.9dB gain settings, which is what the manual also states as the settings for the 1G.  Strangely enough, the 2G's settings were 6, 12, and 21...


----------



## SoulSyde

Is is possible that the manual hasn't been updated?


----------



## Golden Monkey

I wouldn't be suprised, lol...Soul, you have a forum account over there...can you post and ask Rob for confirmation on the gain settings for each generation?


----------



## maverickronin

The issue is the output resistor and not the gain  The extra impedance can affect frequency response of low Z 'phones and it can also screw with the crossover and change its crossover point.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> I wouldn't be suprised, lol...Soul, you have a forum account over there...can you post and ask Rob for confirmation on the gain settings for each generation?


 


  Will do.
   
  EDIT: Done.  When Rob replies I will let you know.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 This is what I meant^^ I just stated it wrong. I thought the three settings on the gain switch were the output resistor settings. My bad. According to the website the default is still 0 even though he changed them again. Straight from the changelog.
   
*Arrow G3.0* - will start to ship at the end of November (please write me if you prefer this version)

 - Change of output resistors to 0/20/65 (better control of treble)
 - Additional ceramic capacitors to lower impedance of tantalum caps (virtual better treble but barely noticeable)
- Much faster production (I will observe the assembly of the PCBs myself)


----------



## Nirvana1000

Thanks.I'm going to check it out.For those who are asking "if it is worth getting an amp/Arrow?From my experience,an amplifier(high quality) usually amplifies the source and sends more power to the headphones without or with minimal distortion at higher volumes.When you have the right combination,it is definitely worth it.You get better detail,imaging,extended and tighter bass,smoother highs and the lush mids.Ultimately with the right op amps or transistors and the DAP's internal amp.Most if not all DAPs will benefit sound wise from an amp.Both my iPod and S9 definitely do.Of course balance and neutrality is preferred with full dynamic sound.IMO this is better achieved with full sized headphones with drivers that need to be pushed with extra juice to really appreciate their strengths and sound quality.But of course there are great IEMs that benefit from amping also and the higher ohm rated cans and IEMs definitely benefit.Before i had amps.The best way to find out how my headphones would sound from amplifying.Hopefully you also have a good home theater receiver that has a good internal amplifier that you can plug them into and see how they respond to higher current and voltage.


----------



## Leander7777

I appreciate the input! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I just ordered the amp with bank transfer, the only problem is that I accidentally ordered off the american website, although my bank card is European. Is it alright if I send 235 euros or should I pay in dollars? Also, when should I transfer the money? Should I wait till I get the confirmation is ready or just transfer as soon as possible?
  Cheers


----------



## SoulSyde

Cut and Pasted from the Headphonia Forum:
   
   
   
   
   
*Gain setting question regarding 1G vs 2G vs 3G*
  Hi Rob,

 A member on Head-Fi asked me to post the following question which am cutting and pasting from the "Arrow 12HE Impressions" thread there:

 "According to the info page, the 3G features 1.2dB, 10.5dB, and 20.9dB gain settings, which is what the manual also states as the settings for the 1G. Strangely enough, the 2G's settings were 6, 12, and 21... [What are the settings for the 3G?]"

 I figured the 3G manual hasn't been updated in a while, but could you please shed some light on this subject? It's in reference to the synergy concern that a few had about the TF10 and the Arrow prior to the 2.2G version. Thanks.
    
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
*Re: Gain setting question regarding 1G vs 2G vs 3G*
  Quote:

  Originally Posted by *SoulSyde* 


_ What are the settings for the 3G?_

 

The G3 has (almost) the same gain setting as the G2. -Rob


----------



## Leander7777

So does that mean the synergy of the 3G is fine with the TripleFis? Could someone also answer my previous question?


----------



## SoulSyde

Dude, it's been explained.  The 2G version was built to correct the synergy issue with sensitive IEMs.  Per Rob's post the 3G version is the same.  It should be fine.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Thanks SoulSyde!  Rob is a man of few words, most of them confusing, lol...


----------



## Leander7777

Sorry SoulSyde, I didn't read the thread, although my answer could have been deduced from your brief transcript.
  I feel somewhat foolish


----------



## SoulSyde

No worries.


----------



## SoulSyde

FiiO has stepped up to the plate with a potentially audiophile-grade amp that uses the same AD8397 Op-Amp as the Arrow:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/527342/e11-a-new-start-of-fiio-s-portable-amp
   
  OK, it won't have crossfeed or selectable impedance, but it's damn sexy and might sound pretty good.  Hmm.


----------



## Golden Monkey

After all this time, I'd rather stick with the Arrow...and Robert's attention (obsession?) to detail.  German engineering FTW.


----------



## SoulSyde

Me too.  Just throwing it out there.


----------



## maverickronin

Crossfeed is god's gift to headphones.  I can't stand to listen very long without it if the mix isn't essentially mono to begin with.
   
  A setup without crossfeed is pretty much useless to me.  I can do it through  Zoom Player and FFDShow at home, with my Cowon D2+ on the go, but not at work where I listen to Pandora unless the amp has it built in.
   
  That's why I use a Bithead at the moment and will probably upgrade to the Arrow + DAC cable soon.  The switchable bass boost is just icing on the cake.


----------



## aamefford

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Crossfeed is god's gift to headphones.  I can't stand to listen very long without it if the mix isn't essentially mono to begin with.
> 
> A setup without crossfeed is pretty much useless to me.  I can do it through  Zoom Player and FFDShow at home, with my Cowon D2+ on the go, but not at work where I listen to Pandora unless the amp has it built in.
> 
> That's why I use a Bithead at the moment and will probably upgrade to the Arrow + DAC cable soon.  The switchable bass boost is just icing on the cake.


 
   
  Agreed on crossfeed.  I finally got a Headroom ultra desktop a while back, and I pretty much can't listen without crossfeed any longer.  Well, I can, but not for as long, and I don't enjoy it as much.  That was the main reason for jumping on the Arrow bandwagon.  Well, that and the impedance switch, which was to magically change my ER4P's to S's.  During the wait, I've sold my Ety's.  Crossfeed is a funny beast.  I can't listen long without it, many don't like it.


----------



## dfkt

Off-topic: A Rockbox developer recreated the Meier (aka Oehman, not sure?) crossfeed circuitry in software, it's excellent. Never used the default Rockbox crossfeed much, since it's kind of muddy, but the new one I couldn't live without anymore. http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/index.php?do=details&task_id=11767


----------



## SoulSyde

Dfkt, my sentiments exactly. Crossfeed does make listening for long periods easier, but the RB default Crossfeed degraded the SQ so much that I never used it.

When I get home this evening I'll try that plug-in.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Off-topic: A Rockbox developer recreated the Meier (aka Oehman, not sure?) crossfeed circuitry in software, it's excellent. Never used the default Rockbox crossfeed much, since it's kind of muddy, but the new one I couldn't live without anymore. http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/index.php?do=details&task_id=11767


 

 Is this patch incorporated in the 3.7 release?


----------



## Golden Monkey

Pretty much the ONLY reason I still use my Headroom Total Airhead...crossfeed sounds nice and natural, and doesn't make my brain freak out when I close my eyes, lol.


----------



## SoulSyde

dfkt, how do I install this patch?
   
  I tried folllowing the Patches for Dummies instructions on rockbox.org ( http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SimpleGuideToCompiling#Adding_Patches ) and I'm stuck.


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





trapper32 said:


> Is this patch incorporated in the 3.7 release?


 

 No, it's newer than that. It's not committed to SVN yet.

  
  Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> dfkt, how do I install this patch?
> 
> I tried folllowing the Patches for Dummies instructions on rockbox.org ( http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SimpleGuideToCompiling#Adding_Patches ) and I'm stuck.


 

 You need a Linux development environment. It's not hard to set it up, but it is a lengthy procedure doing it for the first time. If you want, I can compile a revision with the Meier crossfeed for you - which Clip and Fuze do you have? v1 or v2?
   
  For the Clip+ I compiled a version including the crossfeed and other useful patches here: http://www.mediafire.com/?joc7jk2d0h39fud


----------



## SoulSyde

Thanks dfkt!
   
  I have the V2 Fuze and V1 Clip, but don't worry about the Clip, it's soon going to be replaced with a Clip+.


----------



## dfkt

Here you go, untested, but you should find a "Meier" option in the crossfeed settings: r28830M-101214-sansafuzev2 (FS#11767) - dfkt.zip


----------



## SoulSyde

Very nice dfkt!  It worked well, thanks again.
   
  I need some more time listening to this, but the clarity is amazingly-superior to the factory Crossfeed.  Am I correct that it's a little more subtle an effect than the factory Crossfeed?


----------



## dfkt

Yes, more subtle, just like Meier's hardware crossfeed. It really just "fixes" very hard-panned stuff, leaves the rest more or less intact.


----------



## dfkt

Here's an older version of the crossfeed patch, personally I like this one more, since it has more effect, but still maintains the clarity: r28830M-101214-sansafuzev2 (FS#11577-Meier_v2) - dfkt.zip


----------



## Trapper32

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Here's an older version of the crossfeed patch, personally I like this one more, since it has more effect, but still maintains the clarity: r28830M-101214-sansafuzev2 (FS#11577-Meier_v2) - dfkt.zip


 


  Thanks dfkt... I have the clip+ and fuzev2 and appreciate all your contributions.


----------



## Xfinity

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Here's an older version of the crossfeed patch, personally I like this one more, since it has more effect, but still maintains the clarity: r28830M-101214-sansafuzev2 (FS#11577-Meier_v2) - dfkt.zip


 


  You don't have a version for the Clip+ as well? I would be most grateful .


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Yes, more subtle, just like Meier's hardware crossfeed. It really just "fixes" very hard-panned stuff, leaves the rest more or less intact.


 


  That it does.  I really do like it.  I've been toe tapping this morning - between calls at work.


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





xfinity said:


> You don't have a version for the Clip+ as well? I would be most grateful .


 

 Enjoy.  - http://anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=521663&postcount=1161


----------



## Xfinity

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks dfkt!


----------



## nsx_23

Any chance of a version for the 80GB iPod Video dfkt? It'd be grealy appreciated.


----------



## SoulSyde

Haha, you're going to have to either start charging dfkt or convince the powers-that-be to add the Meier Crossfeed to the latest releases.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Oh, the irony of discussing "Meier Crossfeed" in a thread about the Headstage Arrow...


----------



## dfkt

Indeed... I was trying to be polite with my "Oehman" comment above.


----------



## SoulSyde

Back on track then... dfkt, in your opinion which is a better crossfeed: the pseudo-Meier version or the Arrow's version?


----------



## dfkt

In my opinion they are both equally good, in general - at level 2 the Arrow/Öhman crossfeed is much more noticeable than the (real or virtual) Meier one, but it still maintains clarity and frequency balance. At level 1 it's pretty much the same as the Meier one, to my ears.


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





nsx_23 said:


> Any chance of a version for the 80GB iPod Video dfkt? It'd be grealy appreciated.


 


  Sorry, I don't have the toolchain for PortalPlayer compiles installed.


----------



## davewave

golden monkey said:


> Oh, the irony of discussing "Meier Crossfeed" in a thread about the Headstage Arrow...







I was just going to say, this thread has jumped the rails. 

If anyone is interested, my impression of the Arrow that this is one powerful mo-fo of an amp. Power, power, POWER!!!! Gobs of it!

That's my first impression. My second is that the detail, clarity and nuance of this amp is equally impressive. Through my Westone 3, I'm hearing things I didn't notice before. And that's through IEMs!!!! I haven't even used these much with my HD 580s, except to check how well the amp drives them. Answer? Amazingly well, even without upping the gain. 

I repeat, this amp is powerful. Amazingly so for a portable.


----------



## proedros

just curious , did anyone receive the amp this week , and if so what number did he have ? thanx


----------



## jcomey

Where can I find this amp, outside of direct?  Should I assume that I won't be able to find one at a better price?  Is this one of those "you get what you pay for" situations?


----------



## SoulSyde

Used.
   
  Yup, unless used (and maybe not even then).
   
  I'll let you know when I get mine, but most will say... Yes.


----------



## esanthosh

Quote: 





proedros said:


> just curious , did anyone receive the amp this week , and if so what number did he have ? thanx


 

 Don't think it get past the #2600 mark for sometime now. The Delivery Status thread on Headphonia forums would have been filled with relieved and happy voices if shipping had began for orders above #2600. For reference, sekazi over there is #2609. There are a few with #27XX and others with #28XX in the previous page in that thread.


----------



## Anaxilus

Holy threadjack Batman!


----------



## reminence

order #2699 shipped today.
 I'm jumpin outa my boots :X


----------



## Golden Monkey

Thanks man...good to hear SOME are making it out of there...only 175 or so more to go, *sigh*.


----------



## cardozo

Hello,
   
  I received an email yesterday saying that my amp was shipped.
   
  My order number is 2678.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter


----------



## rehabitat

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Holy threadjack Batman!


 


  Totally.  I have tried, but so far to little avail...
   
  Look guys, this thread is generally reserved for "Impressions, Perceptions & Sensations" of the arrow portable amp, not noob-junk comments about "WTFISMYAMP!!!!!!!"  If you have ordered an arrow and not received it yet, can you please keep it down to a dull roar?  And if you must moan:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/461344/oh-where-oh-where-has-my-slim-arrow-gone-oh-where-oh-where-can-it-be/765
   
  Sorry to be rude, but until you get yours, no-one here gives a hoot


----------



## eisono

[size=x-small]*Dear Customer , *

 The status of your order changed.

 New status: *Arrow G3 shipped*
 For questions, feel free to anwser to this mail. [/size]
   
  [size=x-small]Finally getting rid of these blue balls. Order #2702 here.[/size]


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





eisono said:


> [size=x-small]Finally getting rid of these blue balls.[/size]


 

 ROTFL


----------



## SoulSyde

I do have a question for all of you lucky owners.  What are your impressions of the silk screening on both the case and end pieces?  Any peeling, rubbing or chipping?  Many of Meier's amps have suffered from those problems.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> I do have a question for all of you lucky owners.  What are your impressions of the silk screening on both the case and end pieces?  Any peeling, rubbing or chipping?  Many of Meier's amps have suffered from those problems.


 

 Nothing on the end plates, still perfect.  My housing is wrapped in invisible shield so shaking it in a bag filled w/ broken glass isn't going to do a damned thing to the silkscreen or anything else.


----------



## syaknikwa

wow.. it's good to hear that 27xx's amps are shipping... hurry 28xx's...


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





syaknikwa said:


> wow.. it's good to hear that 27xx's amps are shipping... hurry 28xx's...


 

 Dude...you're not ALLOWED to post unless you have any impressions...
   
  Never mind that our impressions are "where the *&&^%$^*(*%^ is my AMP!".  It would be nice to have an impression other than "this is some BS", since Rob neither answers emails or sends out any kind of email other than when it ships...*sigh*.
   
  Oh, dammit...I broke the rules.  Well, my "sensation" is "ouch".


----------



## Party

[size=10pt]Hey guys I got an e-mail saying my Arrow is on its way![/size]
  [size=10pt]I just realized something that I don't have a cable!![/size]
  [size=10pt]So what is everyone running for their interconnect cable from there player to the amp?[/size]
  [size=10pt]Is there a good solid one that you guys recommend?[/size]
  [size=10pt]Thanks! It is getting close can't wait to hear this baby!  [/size]


----------



## rehabitat

FIIO make good cheap interconnects for ipods and others.  ALO make super nice ones but be prepared to pay.  imo get something cheap to start, you'll probably be happy with that but you can always scale up.
   
  You can diy of course (I did), but parts will cost more than a cheapie off ebay.


----------



## SoulSyde

You can't go wrong with this one for the Arrow amp!
   

  Here was my brief review of it (as posted on Headphone.com):
   
_If your portable source device is not an iPod/Touch/Pad, Sansa Fuze or Sony then you have no choice but to connect your device to your portable amp via a 3.5mm mini-to-mini connector.

 My preferred source device is a Rockboxed Sansa Fuze V2 (which does not allow the use of an LOD due to USB bugs in the Rockbox firmware - yet to be resolved). Therefore I need to use the headphone-out to connect to my portable amp. HeadRoom's 4" mini-to-mini is just to right size to manage this task. The right angle connectors do a great job of keeping your portable rig low profile.

 The sound quality is very good. The cable is durable, yet soft enough to bend when needed.

 I highly recommend this cable, for $10 you can't go wrong._


----------



## grokit

Order number 2970 here (upgrade from G1), just got this message:
   
*Dear Customer , *

 The status of your order changed.

 New status: *Order processing.*
   
  I've been out of this thread for quite a while, but it sounds like it's not coming anytime soon?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Order number 2970 here (upgrade from G1), just got this message:
> 
> *Dear Customer , *
> 
> ...


 

 I thought there weren't going to be any 1G upgrades until all the back-orders are filled. The differences are likely quite small (if you're not a bass head) so when I _do_ get the upgrade I'll get the newest model. I still don't hear anything wrong with the 1G so I don't mind the wait.
   
  If you've already sent the 1G in....that could be a pain. I'm not letting go of my 1G until I *know* when the 3G will ship!


----------



## davewave

rehabitat said:


> FIIO make good cheap interconnects for ipods and others.  ALO make super nice ones but be prepared to pay.  imo get something cheap to start, you'll probably be happy with that but you can always scale up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







I tried the start cheap and move your way up approach and it almost had me sending theArrow back!

I bought the FiiO L5 iPod connector and the sound was terrible. Just god-awful to the point where the sound was just warped. Fortunately I had a Sendstation on the shelf and quickly tried that. Much better sound but not a practical long term solution. 

I'm now using a better smaller LOD courtesy of SoulSyde. It sounds awesome!


----------



## Golden Monkey

"Order Processing" simply means "I took your money sucka...get in line with everyone else...I'll let you know in a couple of months when I get around to finally shipping one".


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nah, when I inquired what the next step was Robert told me that he would send me the G3 first, very cool IMO. He didn't say when though. I guess it's going to be quite a while then unless he manages to catch up all at once relatively soon.
   
  Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> "Order Processing" simply means "I took your money sucka...get in line with everyone else...I'll let you know in a couple of months when I get around to finally shipping one".


 

 Lol, he does have my $25 though


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 He told me the same thing... it is really cool that he'll send the 3G first. That way you don't have to be without the goodness of the Arrow's sound for any length of time. Also, I'd love to be able to compare the sound for a couple days, but I do realize that wouldn't really get you past the burning in phase of the amp. Any more than a couple days probably wouldn't be too cool...
   
  He's got my $25, plus $69 for the USB-DAC cable.....


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> "Order Processing" simply means "I took your money sucka...get in line with everyone else...I'll let you know in a couple of months when I get around to finally shipping one".


 

 I almost pissed my pants laughing..............LOL!


----------



## ddr

i'm curious, does the invisible shield affect heat dissipation at all? or is the heat generated negligible anyways?


----------



## airwax

how long really is the wait for a new order? the site says 5-10 days, is that accurate?


----------



## SoulSyde

Ha aha  ahhahha  ahhahahh aaaa hahhhhh aahah aaaa..... 
   
  Sorry.
   
  OK, I'm better now.
   
  To answer your question, No.
   
  Happy reading:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/461344/oh-where-oh-where-has-my-slim-arrow-gone-oh-where-oh-where-can-it-be


----------



## Party

[size=10pt]Ok quick question, how long of a cable should I go for, for my interconnect? SoulSyde, you recommended the 4inch, so that is what I asked Drew at Moon Audio to make me, but he wants to know if that is from tip to tip or 4inch of cable before the connector? I am going to use the Arrow along with my Cowon J3 so can anyone let me know what length seems to work well and what size I should tell drew to make? Thanks everyone for your input!  [/size]


----------



## SoulSyde

Here you go...


----------



## Golden Monkey

Yeah, I went 4" tip to tip with right angles as well for my Arrow/J3 combo as well.  Best thing about it though is I used Oyaide right angle connectors, and they are built like tanks, lol...this cable (TWag braided) will allow me to use both the bottom connectors, with the cable folded back on itself for a really low profile design.  Pics eventually...once the amp arrives.


----------



## SoulSyde

Pics would be awesome. My Arrow just shipped this evening so I'll do the same when mine arrives.


----------



## rehabitat

To answer the question on the previous page, as far as I can tell during use the arrow does not generate any heat that can be discerned from touching the case exterior.  The battery gets a little warm when charging is all.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Pics would be awesome. My Arrow just shipped this evening so I'll do the same when mine arrives.


 


 No prob, I'll post 'em for you.  Great news that yours shipped...I'm within 25 of you, so mine should leave soon.  Looks like production HAS stepped up dramatically.  That's over 200 in a week or so.  At this rate Rob should be able to get ahead of the order curve and be able to ship new orders almost immediately around the new year (just a guess).  Good news for any future orders or those on the fence due to long wait times.


----------



## hasanyuceer

I asked Robert about that and he said "_There won’t be long waiting time anymore, only few days now._"
   
  So most prov-bably 3G's production is very fast. I think I am gonna get one in a couple of days...
   
  Anyone tried Arrow with SM3 or Mage?


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





hasanyuceer said:


> I asked Robert about that and he said "_There won’t be long waiting time anymore, only few days now._"
> 
> So most prov-bably 3G's production is very fast. I think I am gonna get one in a couple of days...
> 
> Anyone tried Arrow with SM3 or Mage?


 
   
  That's pretty much going to be my chain...Cowon J3 > Whiplash TWag > Arrow > SM3 (or ESW9 or Beyer T50p).  I'll let you know...should be a good fit, but the SM3's seem picky regarding amps.  I can't use my Headroom Airhead with them due to horrible impedance mismatching (they hiss something awful).  With selectable impedance on the Arrow I hope that goes away.  I'll let you know soon I hope!


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





hasanyuceer said:


> I asked Robert about that and he said "_There won’t be long waiting time anymore, only few days now._"


 


  Well if this is true wouldnt you think that the one I ordered on Nov 17 should be done already. I guess not, but still, it should ship within the next three days, thats for sure.


----------



## rehabitat

I trust that all you guys who have been posting about the Arrows lead time will have some actual impressions to contribute when you have received the amp. I for one would like to hear them to help decide if and when to upgrade.

grokit and cn11 will be the first to upgrade. I'm looking to you guys for comparisons


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> I trust that all you guys who have been posting about the Arrows lead time will have some actual impressions to contribute when you have received the amp. I for one would like to hear them to help decide if and when to upgrade.


 
   
  Absolutely!  If I just wanted to bitch about the amp and wait time I'd do it in the other thread, lol.  Skylab's never going to review any of Robert's amps, so it's up to us to do so.


----------



## hasanyuceer

I will be glad! I am using SM3s/Mages with diyMod > Silver LOD > RSA Hornet atm and it is really quiet. SM3 is very sensitive and demands a better amp for sure. Maybe not better than Hornet but slimmer than it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Also do  your ESW9 and T50p get headtime after SM3s? I am thinking about getting a portable headphone (used ESW9 earlier) but I am afraid I wouldnt listen to them, again.
  Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> That's pretty much going to be my chain...Cowon J3 > Whiplash TWag > Arrow > SM3 (or ESW9 or Beyer T50p).  I'll let you know...should be a good fit, but the SM3's seem picky regarding amps.  I can't use my Headroom Airhead with them due to horrible impedance mismatching (they hiss something awful).  With selectable impedance on the Arrow I hope that goes away.  I'll let you know soon I hope!


 
  ___________________
  
  That is what I heard from him. But as you know 3Gs are shipping at recent batches, I hope everyone get their amps soon, so I dont wait too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Well if this is true wouldnt you think that the one I ordered on Nov 17 should be done already. I guess not, but still, it should ship within the next three days, thats for sure.


----------



## rehabitat

Damn android won't let me edit previous post.

cn11 and grokit, you guys are in position to be the first of us to make some comparitive comments...


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> I trust that all you guys who have been posting about the Arrows lead time will have some actual impressions to contribute when you have received the amp.


 

 Whether my impressions are good or bad I'll be chiming in upon receipt.  What good is this forum if we can't brag or complain about our overpriced obsession with audio equipment?


----------



## Anaxilus

Correct, heat is negligible and wont impact the Arrow.  My 602 has Invisible shield as well by only on the backside contact patch.  
   
  Looking forward to the 1G/2G v 3G comparo simply for sound sig.


----------



## SoulSyde

Those of you yearning for more reviews of the Arrow will likely be pleased with Headphonia's take on it:
http://www.headfonia.com/headstage-the-arrow-amplifier/


----------



## m.hamner

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Those of you yearning for more reviews of the Arrow will likely be pleased with Headphonia's take on it:
> http://www.headfonia.com/headstage-the-arrow-amplifier/


 


  great link SoulSyde. That was a good read.


----------



## airwax

Okay. I just placed my order for the Headstage Arrow 12HE and USB DAC cable package. Hoping it will be as fast as I expected. By the way, my order number is exactly #3000, I should get a bonus for that. lol.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





airwax said:


> Okay. I just placed my order for the Headstage Arrow 12HE and USB DAC cable package. Hoping it will be as fast as I expected. By the way, my order number is exactly *#3000*, I should get a bonus for that. lol.


 

 That's actually pretty cool.


----------



## Golden Monkey

#2873 has shipped!


----------



## Golden Monkey

Yeah, I've been using the ESW9's quite a bit around the house.  Beyers broke and were shipped off to them for replacement two days after I got them, so they are not getting much play at all, lol.  I use the SM3's when I listen in bed (so as not to disturb the wife) and usually out and about, and I'm still working my way through a bunch of different tips to find what I like best (so far it's MEElec tri-flanges, but they don't isolate as well as some others).  It comes down to mood I guess...I'll grab the AT's when I don't want stuff rammed into my ear canals or if I want a warmer sound, and the Beyers (in theory, lol) for more critical yet comfortable listening.
   
  Quote:


hasanyuceer said:


> I will be glad! I am using SM3s/Mages with diyMod > Silver LOD > RSA Hornet atm and it is really quiet. SM3 is very sensitive and demands a better amp for sure. Maybe not better than Hornet but slimmer than it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hasanyuceer

Thanks 
  
  Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Yeah, I've been using the ESW9's quite a bit around the house.  Beyers broke and were shipped off to them for replacement two days after I got them, so they are not getting much play at all, lol.  I use the SM3's when I listen in bed (so as not to disturb the wife) and usually out and about, and I'm still working my way through a bunch of different tips to find what I like best (so far it's MEElec tri-flanges, but they don't isolate as well as some others).  It comes down to mood I guess...I'll grab the AT's when I don't want stuff rammed into my ear canals or if I want a warmer sound, and the Beyers (in theory, lol) for more critical yet comfortable listening.


----------



## dragonfyra

I've had the Arrow for a little while now, my 1G died because of battery issue, Robert was nice enough to get me the newer version free of charge (he doesn't say much, but he's one heck of a guy), but I'm not sure which of the 2G versions I have.
   
  Recently, my main desktop amp died, and my DT880/600's have been sitting there in it's bag for a long time feeling lonely, so tonight I figure I'd break'em out and plug it into my IPC120 + Whiplast Micro Twag + Arrow 2G combo just for the heck of it...
   
  Pushed the gain to level three, bass to level one, and wow... I was momentarily stunned... it's good... it's not the best I've heard out of my DT880/600's but wow.. it's good... it had body, the highs were still smooth (slightly sharp as is the HP's characteristics), but what struck me was the bass.... it was solid, spot on, thumping, fairly tight.  
   
  Granted, the soundstage closed in a bit, and the mids seemed slightly recessed (vocals slightly distant), at complex parts of songs, it did seem a bit congested... but ... well.. I'm still stunned, it's working... 
   
  Good grip, good warmth, nothing too harsh... pushed it to bass level 2 on Lady GaGa's "Eh, Eh", and I immediately realised it was a bad idea, too much bass.... was getting that feeling as if I couldnt' breath (i'm not a basshead), pushed it back to bass level zero, and it was a bit too thin.
   
  Music that I tried included Kaskade's Strobelight Seduction album, then some GaGa, then finally got really happy with Infected Mushroom's "I'm the Supervisor" album... nice...
   
  Just had to share... since I'm still in semi-disbelief....600ohms... good... mm...
   
   
  Edit: Just tried to use the lower Gain settings, with level one, sounds thinner, vocals are even further now, but soundstage has expanded, think level two gain is my preferred setting for a happy medium.


----------



## proedros

if the 2800-2900 batch has been shipped , that means that only 100 are yet to be processed - which means the delivery times would be much shorter now
   
  this makes it even harder to resist...
   

  
  Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> #2873 has shipped!


----------



## SoulSyde

Resistance is futile.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Paid for an Arrow today. Now it is time for waiting


----------



## SoulSyde

It doesn't appear that it will be as long as most of the people before you.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Rob changed my order status to Shipped. We will see what happens


----------



## SoulSyde

Wow!


----------



## proedros

You're kidding - after having people waiting 4-5 months , he is shipping now in 2 days ?? Great news
   
  Let us know how many days until the arrow reached you - I am very interested in buying one and it seems we are neighbours (Greece) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





hasanyuceer said:


> Rob changed my order status to Shipped. We will see what happens


----------



## hasanyuceer

I will keep posting the news. I think he will post in a few days because he changed the status at Sunday which is Christmas. Anyway, I hope it gets here fast.
   
  Merry Christmas to everyone!


----------



## airwax

Quote: 





hasanyuceer said:


> Rob changed my order status to Shipped. We will see what happens


 


  What? You ordered today and got it shipped already?


----------



## hasanyuceer

It's a bit complicated. I ordered before (a few days ago) but I cleared payment today.


----------



## Leander7777

What order number are you?
  I'm 2963 and still waiting...


----------



## grokit

Well hopefully that means Rob has caught up and I will get a shipped update on my G1(HE) to G3 upgrade soon, order #2970. Are there any other differences besides the improved treble and more bass boost?


----------



## hasanyuceer

Mine is 3010. I dont know really what is going on


----------



## Leander7777

Haha, I guess that's Rob's christmas present for you


----------



## airwax

Quote: 





hasanyuceer said:


> Mine is 3010. I dont know really what is going on


 


  Good for you buddy. I'm #3000. But it was for the Arrow 3G and the USB DAC package. I'm not sure which one is holding it up. Nice to know that the arrows are getting out fast.


----------



## hasanyuceer

I think it will be clear what is going on in week days..


----------



## Mediaogre

All, this thread is for reviews. The Wait n Whine is here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/461344/oh-where-oh-where-has-my-slim-arrow-gone-oh-where-oh-where-can-it-be


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> All, this thread is for reviews. The Wait n Whine is here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/461344/oh-where-oh-where-has-my-slim-arrow-gone-oh-where-oh-where-can-it-be


 

 We should just unofficially swap threads for those that know the secret handshake.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Oh, I digged about all my orders and I understood what is going on. I am still waiting, my Arrow is still not shipped. Order still seems processing.


----------



## eisono

Just received mines in the mail today.  S9 > HEADSTAGE > JVC HA-FX700 review: *Pending* (haha).  So far.... AWESOME!!!


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





eisono said:


> Just received mines in the mail today.  S9 > HEADSTAGE > JVC HA-FX700 review: *Pending* (haha).  So far.... AWESOME!!!






   
  ^^ Congrats. Worth the wait, no?


----------



## 7swell

How well does the Arrow pair with low impedance IEMs and customs? I'm looking to get an Arrow mostly for the additional features it has, but I'm wondering if there is a hiss problem with sensitive IEMs. Also, is there channel imbalance at low volumes?


----------



## SoulSyde

Got mine today!!  #2852
   
  Immediate impressions:
  -- Small
  -- Lighter than I thought it would be
  -- Excellent build quality
  -- The switches have a nice sturdy feel to them
  -- Sounds amazing (Fuze > Arrow > HD600)
   
  More impressions to follow after many hours of play time.


----------



## hasanyuceer

I want mine too!!
   
  Happily I have Hornet and MKI in my hands. Otherwise it would be very painful to wait..


----------



## grokit

[size=medium]
  Quote: 





eisono said:


> Just received mines in the mail today.  S9 > HEADSTAGE > JVC HA-FX700 review: *Pending* (haha).  So far.... AWESOME!!!





   
  Nice to know as the FX700 is about the only IEM still on my radar.
   
  Quote: 





7swell said:


> How well does the Arrow pair with low impedance IEMs and customs? I'm looking to get an Arrow mostly for the additional features it has, but I'm wondering if there is a hiss problem with sensitive IEMs. Also, is there channel imbalance at low volumes?




​[/size]

   
  No hiss with IEMs that hiss on other setups, no channel imbalance either on my HE G1.


----------



## hasanyuceer

A question from me;
   
  How does the impedance setting change the sound? Is that only for removing hiss on sensitive IEMs or changes soundsignature?


----------



## Mediaogre

The Arrow has excellent impedance matching. I have SE530s and have no hiss with IMP 0 and GAIN II. It's phenomenal. Slight, and I say _slight_ imbalance at the lowest level of the pot on the left channel. It's so tiny though it could easily be my ears.  Seriously, not an issue which others who have performed extensive testing will back me up on.
  
  Quote: 





7swell said:


> How well does the Arrow pair with low impedance IEMs and customs? I'm looking to get an Arrow mostly for the additional features it has, but I'm wondering if there is a hiss problem with sensitive IEMs. Also, is there channel imbalance at low volumes?


----------



## Mediaogre

As you bump the impedance up, you'll lose some highs.
  
  Quote: 





hasanyuceer said:


> A question from me;
> 
> How does the impedance setting change the sound? Is that only for removing hiss on sensitive IEMs or changes soundsignature?


----------



## hasanyuceer

Thanks for answer Mediaogre


----------



## 7swell

Quote: 





grokit said:


> No hiss with IEMs that hiss on other setups, no channel imbalance either on my HE G1.


 
   
  Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> The Arrow has excellent impedance matching. I have SE530s and have no hiss with IMP 0 and GAIN II. It's phenomenal. Slight, and I say _slight_ imbalance at the lowest level of the pot on the left channel. It's so tiny though it could easily be my ears.  Seriously, not an issue which others who have performed extensive testing will back me up on.


 

 Sounds good, thanks for the input. It looks like I will be ordering one as soon as break is over.


----------



## proedros

I am about 95% set on ordering one too - F%$k it , i was gonna buy one sooner or later - might as well be sooner


----------



## wuwhere

Has anyone compared the 1G with 2G or 3G?  I have a 1G, I haven't listened to it for weeks. Listening to it now on my UE10Pro, it sounds pretty good.


----------



## wuwhere

I was just at Headphonia's site, I can upgrade my 1G to 3G for just $25? What a deal!


----------



## SoulSyde

The auto on/off feature is awesome!  I would certainly be upgrading if I were a 1G owner.


----------



## gazar

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Wow!


 


  So, you got your one !!! I hope a more detailed review than WOW, will be forthcoming.


----------



## wuwhere

Of all of my portables, it still has the most awesome bass. My only gripe is that the 1G is just slightly dark but I can live with that. It is my amp for my ER4S and ER4P.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





gazar said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Soon.  My Fuze finally died, so I ordered a J3 (which should be here next week).  After A/B'ing between the J3 and my Clip+ for a while I will give more thorough review.


----------



## proedros

Is the DAC cable a worthy buy ?


----------



## zappp

Since a few days I have both 1G and 3G. I will return the 1G after the holidays. There is no obvious difference in sound quality or sound signature. Under torture I might admit that the (brand new) 3G has a tad more "glow" or warmth. I do not really believe in the benefit of hundreds of hours of "burn-in", but a subtile change might be possible. After all, replacing my 9 month old 1G by a brand new 3G with improved battery life was a no-brainer.
   
  Note that the 3G has different gain settings, i.e. set to "gain I" 1G has 1.2dB and 3G has 6dB, about 1.5x louder. In other words even with HD580 (HD600), "gain I" is all I ever need.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





proedros said:


> Is the DAC cable a worthy buy ?


 


http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/496468/headphonia-usb-dac-cable


----------



## proedros

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





zappp said:


> Since a few days I have both 1G and 3G. I will return the 1G after the holidays. There is no obvious difference in sound quality or sound signature. Under torture I might admit that the (brand new) 3G has a tad more "glow" or warmth. I do not really believe in the benefit of hundreds of hours of "burn-in", but a subtile change might be possible. After all, replacing my 9 month old 1G by a brand new 3G with improved battery life was a no-brainer.
> 
> Note that the 3G has different gain settings, i.e. set to "gain I" 1G has 1.2dB and 3G has 6dB, about 1.5x louder. In other words even with HD580 (HD600), "gain I" is all I ever need.


 
   
  So no discernible treble extension between the two then?  How about the performance of the impedance switch?


----------



## zappp

I never bothered to "play" with the "imp" settings. No hiss or excessive sibilance on my headphones. I just cuts the highs a bit. "imp=II" on the G3 is about the same as "imp=I" on the G1.
   
  The "bass boost = II" on the G3 is a tad deeper than on the G1, but by subjective feeling less than the nominal 3dB increase suggests.


----------



## Anaxilus

Thx


----------



## grokit

That's all I am hoping for, a subtle improvement. I wouldn't want him to re-invent the wheel with this thing as it's already fantastic.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





zappp said:


> Since a few days I have both 1G and 3G. I will return the 1G after the holidays. There is no obvious difference in sound quality or sound signature. Under torture I might admit that the (brand new) 3G has a tad more "glow" or warmth. I do not really believe in the benefit of hundreds of hours of "burn-in", but a subtile change might be possible. After all, replacing my 9 month old 1G by a brand new 3G with improved battery life was a no-brainer.
> 
> Note that the 3G has different gain settings, i.e. set to "gain I" 1G has 1.2dB and 3G has 6dB, about 1.5x louder. In other words even with HD580 (HD600), "gain I" is all I ever need.


 

 That's nice. I thought that 1G is also slightly, dare I say "dry"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But I'll still trade my 1G for 3G unless I smell 4G?


----------



## nsx_23

Picked up my Arrow today. Listening through iPod LOD and UE18 atm, and its not bad from first impressions. It is a tad dry on AC/DC, but we'll see. Too early to draw any firm conclusions.
   
  The compact size means this is an amp I can actually comfortably carry around everywhere. Now I need a very, very small LOD though.


----------



## Qonad

I have a brand new, just arrived arrow amp for sale if anyone is interested. PM me.


----------



## SoulSyde

So you really like it that much, huh!?


----------



## Mediaogre

*sniff* My G1 has auto on/off. *sniff*
   
  Seriously, I think the difference is the G3 power is full auto all the time with no physical switch with a two minute signal timer. The G1 has the three-position "glowing proboscis" switch. I admit though, the G1 auto setting is a bit touchy.
  
  Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> The auto on/off feature is awesome!  I would certainly be upgrading if I were a 1G owner.


----------



## SoulSyde

Oh, I didn't know that.  What's the switch for then?


----------



## cn11

The switch just gives you the choice whether or not to use the auto on/off feature. I kind of like the glowing red power switch on this version, but do look forward to the simplicity of the new one with auto power and no switch.


----------



## SoulSyde

Gotcha, I guess I like the latest incarnation myself as well.


----------



## Mediaogre

Um, maybe it's a sign (omen?) but two nights ago I had a nightmare that my 5-year old ran over my Arrow with his bike over and over again. It was a classic progressively disturbing dream. At first when I held it it had just a few minor scuffs. The longer I held it, large deep gouges appeared in the beautifully machined case and the laser silk lettering started rubbing off (my first sign that I was dreaming). I panicked, tried to turn it on and the little light stick broke off in my hand! I woke up right after that with a big *PHEW*.
   
  ...And now there's immortal written proof of my pathetic audio affliction.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> ...And now there's immortal written proof of my pathetic audio affliction.


 

 That should be the mission statement for Head-Fi.org


----------



## Mediaogre

LOL. I dig your perspective, man.
  
  Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

Just paid for an arrow and USB/DAC combo.
  Cant't wait ...


----------



## proedros

we are all ill here - no worries lol
  
  Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Um, maybe it's a sign (omen?) but two nights ago I had a nightmare that my 5-year old ran over my Arrow with his bike over and over again. It was a classic progressively disturbing dream. At first when I held it it had just a few minor scuffs. The longer I held it, large deep gouges appeared in the beautifully machined case and the laser silk lettering started rubbing off (my first sign that I was dreaming). I panicked, tried to turn it on and the little light stick broke off in my hand! I woke up right after that with a big *PHEW*.
> 
> ...And now there's immortal written proof of my pathetic audio affliction.


----------



## rehabitat

Audioholics Anonymous awaits us all


----------



## imacat

Quote: 





bhaskarjyotik said:


> Just paid for an arrow and USB/DAC combo.
> Cant't wait ...


 


  Oh, but you'll have to.


----------



## SoulSyde

OK, no offense to a lot of the recent off-topic posts (hell, I'm guilty for 1 out of 4 of them), but this is my attempt to bring this thread back to its original intent...
   
  Everyone please post your favorite settings:
   
*BASS*
*CROSSFEED*
*GAIN*
*IMPEDANCE*
   
  ---------------------------------------
   
  Mine are as follows:
   
   
*BASS: 1*
*CROSSFEED: 1*
*GAIN: 1*
*IMPEDANCE: 0*


----------



## pseudohippy

What phones are you using with those settings. Source would be interesting also.


----------



## SoulSyde

Source: Clip+ and J3

  Headphones: Sennheiser HD 600, Ultrasone Pro 750

   

*BASS: 1*
*CROSSFEED: 1*
*GAIN: 1*
*IMPEDANCE: 0*


----------



## warrior05

So had my first listening session with my new G3.  Initial impressions are quite impressive.  We shall see how she settles in.  First thing I noticed though was I really like the auto on.  I was afraid that there would be a momentary delay but I noticed it turned on when I powered on my iMod.  Cool.  The other initial impression is that this little amp is quite the powerhouse!  I'm looking forward to experimenting with my DT990/600 and even my K701s.
   
  I won't get a whole lot of listening time till I build one of my uber low profile LODs.  Going to incorporate a micro USB jack so I can charge and sync my iMod without having to unplug the LOD.  Time consuming so I will have to continue to be patient.  Maybe I will throw an LOD together to use with my iPod Touch in the meantime.  I really do want to start to listen to this promising amp!  Especially since I waited for over 4 months for it!
   
  Other than Gain, I'm keeping my settings neutral/low to create a baseline.  Then I will start experimenting though I tend not to be gadgety when it comes to audio settings.  I never EQ or crossfeed so I'll probably stick with the current settings.


----------



## Anaxilus

602/DACPort
   
  MDs
   
*BASS: 0*
*CROSSFEED: 0*
*GAIN: 2*
*IMPEDANCE: 0*
   
  DBA-02
   
*BASS: 0/1*
*CROSSFEED: 0*
*GAIN: 1/2*
*IMPEDANCE: 0*
   
  I wouldn't mind using Xfeed more but the sonic penalty is a but much for me.  Tonality > SS/Imaging for me.


----------



## Leander7777

@SoulSyde
  How does the Arrow sound with your Ultrasone pro 750s? I own a pair of pro 900s and I'd like to get a rough idea of how the two will match up. 
   
  Edit: I'd also like to know how much better they sound with the arrow when compared to the FiiO E5. I know it's an unfair comparison, but while I was waiting for my Arrow, I decided to get the E5.


----------



## Anaxilus

It's not even fair in the slightest.  I wonder where my E5 is........


----------



## grokit

Warrior05, you don't need a capacitor dock, you have a 4G iMod? I would really like to be able to get a USB power input into my Vcap dock.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





leander7777 said:


> @SoulSyde
> How does the Arrow sound with your Ultrasone pro 750s? I own a pair of pro 900s and I'd like to get a rough idea of how the two will match up.
> 
> Edit: I'd also like to know how much better they sound with the arrow when compared to the FiiO E5. I know it's an unfair comparison, but while I was waiting for my Arrow, I decided to get the E5.


 

 I got rid of my E5 before I bough my Pro 650s (now sold) or my more recent Pro 750s.  However, the E5 sucks in my opinion.  It's a hiss-monster, didn't power my headphones that much more adequately than the on-board amp in my DAP and the bass-boost was a bloated joke.  FiiO has come a long way since the E5.  If you must go FiiO I would spring for the E7.
   
  But the Arrow is a joy paired with the 750s.  I've only had my Arrow for less than a week so my impressions are still too new to do a formal review, but in short they sound very-very good with the Arrow.


----------



## warrior05

grokit said:


> Warrior05, you don't need a capacitor dock, you have a 4G iMod? I would really like to be able to get a USB power input into my Vcap dock.




I have a 5g so I need to include caps. This one will be fun to build since I also have to account for the input jack being on the edge and being careful not to block the volume control (I prefer my hp jacks oriented towards the bottom).

I'll definitely throw together an LOD for my Touch tonight so I can enjoy the Arrow while I work on the one for my iMod which will take me a few days.


----------



## aamefford

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> 602/DACPort
> 
> MDs
> 
> ...


 
   
  SWEET JESUS!  Rob is modifying an amp for me (I think...) because I cannot listen on low gain with the DBA-02's because by the time I get it quiet enough, I am into channel separation on the potentiometer!  I literally have less than 10 degrees of rotation before it is just too loud for me.  I have to put the impedance on I or II to be able to use the amp with these.  It is not so bad with my PK3's.  Anaxilus - Please don't go deaf on us!
   
  My Settings:
   
  DBA-02
   
*BASS: 0/1*
*CROSSFEED: 1/2*
*GAIN: 1 and wishing for less!!!*
*IMPEDANCE: 1/2*
   
  PK3
   
*BASS: 1/2*
*CROSSFEED: 1/2
*
*GAIN: 1
*
*IMPEDANCE: 2 as it rolls off the treble a bit.*
   
*D7000's*
   
   
*BASS: 0*
*CROSSFEED: 1
*
*GAIN: 1
*
*IMPEDANCE: 0*

 All out of an iPhone 3GS or Touch 4G


----------



## Party

[size=12pt]Ok After listening with the Arrow (Have had it only for a couple of days) I have notice a couple of things. I will start off with the negatives:[/size]
   
  [size=12pt]- I have a major hiss through my Westone3s, I am using a Cowon J3 as the source, and to put it into perspective it has about as much hiss as the Cowon J3 at its highest level! (Which I never listen to it that high). When connected to the J3 alone there is barely any hiss which I am happy with (although could be better as always
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size][size=12pt]) and was hoping the Arrow would have been just as quiet or quieter, But through the Arrow man it hisses! This is with the gain on 1 and IMP at 0, if I bump up the IMP to remove some of the hiss it will not only take some of the treble away it will also lower the overall volume output. Has anyone else confirmed this with the Arrow and Westone3s?[/size]
   
  [size=12pt]-This leads me to the least of my concerns, that at this setting I can bottom out the potentiometer not giving me the ability to blast my music when I want to. Now of course I could achieve louder sound by bumping up the gain etc… but then I would introduce noise and impede my sound quality. Now I could also up the Cowon J3 volume but again probably degrading the sound quality, and probably not a good idea to run the internal amp of the J3 up that high anyways… What is everyone running there source volume at (is not lower typically better, for sound quality that is)?? (If you don’t have a line-out that is)  [/size]
   
  [size=12pt]-For the last of the negatives it seems to “downplay” the bass to a “beat” instead of a full bodied nicely rolled-off bass note. This seems to in return lessen the bass overall and again play it as just a harsh note and not a musically blended natural sound as it does when hearing directly from the source (J3).[/size]
   
  [size=12pt]So if it was not for these issues I would be happy and content! Now the positives are that this does most defiantly clarifies the vocals and basically sharpens and increase the definition of the sound over all. This in return with what was said above tends to lead my ears in hearing more of the treble end of the spectrum (colder sound than warmer). Now if the amp could produce or keep more of that naturally mid-lower end sound I think that would bring much of the “warmth” back to the sound. I would also say that this amp widens the soundstage and gives an over all “open” sound which is great, but again I cannot imagine what this open sound would sound like if it also had that extra “low-end warmth to it” (sometimes sounds analytical), then again this openness may just also come from the fact that it does not accent the mid-low band (as described above) and gives rise to its open airy high-def. sound?[/size]
   
  [size=12pt]These were just some of the major things that first stood out with in the first couple days of listening. Over all this is a nice way to bring in the New Year!!![/size]


----------



## rehabitat

Sounds like the Arrow is merely amplifying the hiss already present in your Cowon's amp section.  It may be that the J3 and W3 are a poor match.  I suggest trying the Arrow with a different source and compare.
   
  Oh and search the thread, I don't recall anyone posting about any more than very minor hiss issues with the Arrow couple with highly sensitive iems like Westones, although most impressions here are of G1.  It's possible your amp may have a fault too...
   
  It's my impression from others that the Arrow is not the best choice to drive _some_ highly sensitive iems, which usually don't require an additional amp to perform near their best.  There are other amps that are designed specifically for this purpose, like the Pico Slim.
   
  The Arrow really shines with full size and medium to high impedance/low sensitivity cans because it enables you to use these cans portably, which are often impossible to drive well from a portable dap.  It's accepted that the Arrow is not the finest sounding portable on the market, but it is certainly the most versatile one.


----------



## average_joe

I don't have any hiss from my Arrow with any of my sources (Fuze, modded iPods, 601) and my high sensitivity IEMs including the SM3 and EP-10 Plus, which has the highest sensitivity of my IEMs.  My thought is it is the source.  What volume is the J3 at when you are connecting it to the Arrow?  If it is at a low volume, I would imagine that could be a large contributor to the hiss, and a max volume on the J3 would probably be best.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





aamefford said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You realize we aren't using the same sources right?  Plus I shouldn't have listed my DACPort as I don't use it w/ the Arrow.  My Arrow can go silent on gain II so not sure what the problem is.  I'm out of channel imbalance by the time I get to listening level easily.  I don't listen to music at room noise level (35-40) like some of you.   I listen at music level.  I'll watch my SPL though.


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

Will my arrow (hope it arrives soon!) be able to drive the Senn HD650s to their fullest potential?
  Or will I need another amp for that?


----------



## rehabitat

Search the thread and you'll find that the Arrow is just about as good as a portable gets for driving HD650s.  A desktop amp is required for fullest potential, however.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





bhaskarjyotik said:


> Will my arrow (hope it arrives soon!) be able to drive the Senn HD650s to their fullest potential?
> Or will I need another amp for that?


 

 It pushes my HD600s very well.


----------



## average_joe

I don't have the HD600 or HD650, but the Arrow does not drive the LCD-2 as well as the Stepdance.  The Arrow did fine with the SA5000, but not sure how comparable it is to the HD600/650.


----------



## Party

[size=medium]Hmm I wonder if I do indeed have a defective Arrow then??? I need not even plug the Arrow into a source to even hear the Hiss (with the unit on and my earphones in I hear the hiss), so it is most defiantly the Arrow! Like I said I can listen to the J3 with virtually no hiss at normal listening and even pretty high without much hiss. [/size]
   
  [size=medium]Also I can hear some hiss through my DT 770! However less as expected. I can plug the phones into the J3 and pump it all the way up and it will still be pretty much silent, but once hooked to the Arrow there is most defiantly a prominent hiss, but much more tolerable, nowhere close to the hiss hear on the Westone 3s (it is truly unacceptable the more I listen to it!)… Also I can top the Arrow out on these (DT770) as well, on gain 3!! Now I am running the J3 at about 25 vol level (so a little more than half way to its MAX vol of 40), if I go higher I probably would not be able to top out the Arrow, but again I don’t think you want to be running the setup like that, you basically want to run the Source at its lowest vol that still gives you all the vol you could want through the Arrow?[/size][size=medium] Is not Line outs low?. So what is everyone running their source(s) vols at??? Or maybe give percentages of the max vol of your devices?  [/size]


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





party said:


> [size=medium]Hmm I wonder if I do indeed have a defective Arrow then??? I need not even plug the Arrow into a source to even hear the Hiss (with the unit on and my earphones in I hear the hiss), so it is most defiantly the Arrow! Like I said I can listen to the J3 with virtually no hiss at normal listening and even pretty high without much hiss. [/size]
> 
> [size=medium]Also I can hear some hiss through my DT 770! However less as expected. I can plug the phones into the J3 and pump it all the way up and it will still be pretty much silent, but once hooked to the Arrow there is most defiantly a prominent hiss, but much more tolerable, nowhere close to the hiss hear on the Westone 3s (it is truly unacceptable the more I listen to it!)… Also I can top the Arrow out on these (DT770) as well, on gain 3!! Now I am running the J3 at about 25 vol level (so a little more than half way to its MAX vol of 40), if I go higher I probably would not be able to top out the Arrow, but again I don’t think you want to be running the setup like that, you basically want to run the Source at its lowest vol that still gives you all the vol you could want through the Arrow?[/size][size=medium] Is not Line outs low?. So what is everyone running their source(s) vols at??? Or maybe give percentages of the max vol of your devices?  [/size]


 

 Dont forget.  You probably have a 3G Arrow.  Many of us have 1G/2Gs.  Not sure if thats it but something to consider.


----------



## grokit

My 1G has no hiss, even with IEMs that hiss with other portables. I hope it's not a mistake to trade it in for a 3G


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





grokit said:


> My 1G has no hiss, even with IEMs that hiss with other portables. I hope it's not a mistake to trade it in for a 3G


 

 That's why I'd want to hear both.  Pulling that 10ohm resistor scares me a bit.  I know I'll never worry about synergy w/ the TF10.


----------



## maverickronin

Its because the 3G has 0 output impedance on the lowest setting so it doesn't screw up crossovers and/or change the FR.  If your IEM isn't affected much by the extra output impedance you can flip it up one step and kill all the hiss.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

 Luckily Robert is mailing the unit out to me first (someday lol), that way I can A/B the two versions together.


----------



## proedros

Do we have anybody here who used the arrow *with the RE-262 *? Impressions ?


----------



## Leander7777

[size=medium]I was wondering if an LOD would improve the SQ of my iPod to the Arrow amp when compared to the Headstage 4inch cable? I haven't used LODs before, so I really don't know what the benefits are, hence my budget is quite small. Thus far, only the FiiO L6 has sparked some interest.
   ​[/size]


----------



## hasanyuceer

You would definitely get a LOD for your iPod. But L6 is for Sansa, you can get a Fiio L1 or L3.


----------



## Leander7777

the L6 is for the Sansa... thanks for letting me know ^^
  Could you however elaborate on the benefits and how would the FiiO L3 compare to an ALX for the Headstage Arrow?


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The Triple.Fi's are pretty sensitive, and I can tell you that it doesn't hiss at all even without the 10ohm resistor with the 2.2g. My best guess is that the hiss is either from the source (no problem with my S9 either) or a faulty amp.


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

Does anyone know if Rob replies to his emails or not?
  I got the email saying order processing a few days back.
  I replied with a few questions.
  Till now have not received any answers.
  May be he is too busy with the production!


----------



## Mediaogre

Yo, the best way to get a response from him nowadays is through the Arrow support forum: http://www.headphonia.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10
  
  Quote: 





bhaskarjyotik said:


> Does anyone know if Rob replies to his emails or not?
> I got the email saying order processing a few days back.
> I replied with a few questions.
> Till now have not received any answers.
> May be he is too busy with the production!


----------



## SoulSyde

I have some hiss (slight) with my 3G and some of my headphones (mostly IEMs).  
   
  With my full-size headphones it is nonexistent.


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

Thanks Brother!
  Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> Yo, the best way to get a response from him nowadays is through the Arrow support forum: http://www.headphonia.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## Mediaogre

I'm bummed to hear about the report of G3 hiss with the Westone3 and other IEMs. The SE530s have often been compared to the Westones and I was close to going forward with the upgrade. It'll be interesting to hear more people weigh in. For now, I'll stick with the G1 which brings me only joy and like Grokit, no hiss at all.
   
  @Grokit - I didn't know you were a Pac NW dude! Gotcher "O" face on?


----------



## Leander7777

Could someone tell me what the benefits are of using a FiiO L3 LOD over the Headroom 4inch double male cable?
  In addition, I'd appreciate to know if there would be a big difference if I used an ALX cable instead of the FiiO cable with the Headstage Arrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Cheers


----------



## maverickronin

The line out will bypass an amplification stage in the ipod and give your amp a cleaner signal.  That's all there is to it.  It has nothing to do with any "magical" properties of the cable.  All you need is a decently constructed cable with the right connectors.


----------



## proedros

J3 needs a LOD to work the arrow ? Or some other cable ?


----------



## Leander7777

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> The line out will bypass an amplification stage in the ipod and give your amp a cleaner signal.  That's all there is to it.  It has nothing to do with any "magical" properties of the cable.  All you need is a decently constructed cable with the right connectors.


 

 Well, I wasn't expecting anything magical, but... thanks for the heads up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Ok, so if I'm craving for audio perfection, I'm probably best off connecting an LOD to my iPhone or does the iphone provide a relatively clean signal, as I already have a headroom cable on its way? Nonetheless, the $15 won't scar my wallet too badly


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





proedros said:


> J3 needs a LOD to work the arrow ? Or some other cable ?


 


  The J3 doesn't have a line out like the iPod/iPhone. With that said, the J3 does have a very clean sounding internal amp, so you'll be fine using the 3.5mm to 3.5mm interconnect. Just make sure not to turn the volume beyond 35 if you have any eq setting with bass, or else you'll get distortion.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote:


leander7777 said:


> Well, I wasn't expecting anything magical, but... thanks for the heads up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've never had an iphone/ipod so I can't say how much better it would sound nor can I recommend a particular model.  Lots of people say it does sound better, and unlike many other alleged tweaks, this one requires no suspension of the laws of physics in order to work so I'm willing to believe it.
   
  If you go asking for recommendations about LODs you're likely to be deluged with testimonials about the alleged properties of $100+ models made from uncountable strands of the purest copper or silver attached to hilariously overpriced connectors with over specified solder that could only ever deliver on their promises if they were literally enchanted.  They best I can say about such things is that they are generally very well made and, as far as I can tell, are simply audio jewelry.
   
  The downside to this is that it can be hard to find a solid recommendation for reasonably priced and well built model.  It is possible for pathologically designed interconnects to degrade an audio signal, but you almost have to design it that way on purpose unless you're dealing with a particularly unusual system.


----------



## proedros

Oh , I see thanx !!
   
  Do you see much difference in your S9 when using the arrow , compared to unamped ?
   
  Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

I have found an interesting article. You guys might like it.
   
   
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#oxygenfreeQuote:



maverickronin said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> leander7777 said:
> ...


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





proedros said:


> Oh , I see thanx !!
> 
> Do you see much difference in your S9 when using the arrow , compared to unamped ?


 


  With the Triple.Fi, the difference was very tiny. These IEM just don't need too much power to drive them well, I really had to keep on going back and forth very quickly to hear the tiny difference. However with my Grado the difference was felt immediately. With your RE-xxx IEM having higher power requirements, I'm sure the benefit of the amp would be felt quite a bit more then Triple.Fi's.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> I'm bummed to hear about the report of G3 hiss with the Westone3 and other IEMs. The SE530s have often been compared to the Westones and I was close to going forward with the upgrade. It'll be interesting to hear more people weigh in. For now, I'll stick with the G1 which brings me only joy and like Grokit, no hiss at all.
> 
> *@Grokit - I didn't know you were a Pac NW dude! Gotcher "O" face on? *


 

 Lol, check out the new avatar for 2011


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Boooooooooo....... Go DAWGS!


----------



## aamefford

Quote: 





> > SWEET JESUS!  Rob is modifying an amp for me (I think...) because I cannot listen on low gain with the DBA-02's because by the time I get it quiet enough, I am into channel separation on the potentiometer!  I literally have less than 10 degrees of rotation before it is just too loud for me.  I have to put the impedance on I or II to be able to use the amp with these.  It is not so bad with my PK3's.  Anaxilus - Please don't go deaf on us!
> >
> >
> > *All out of an iPhone 3GS or Touch 4G*
> ...


 
  Good point on source!  As for hiss comments noted later on in the thread, I have detected none with my DBA-02's and the Arrow.  My only issue is the gain being too high for me with the touch 4G and iPhone 3GS.  It's almost ok if I use imp I or II.  the imp I setting sounds pretty nice, the II is a bit on the warm side, though still pretty pleasant.  As for my volume, pretty low most of the time, but that is generally because I'm in a quiet room.  I still don't get too loud, though, especially with iem's.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





bhaskarjyotik said:


> I have found an interesting article. You guys might like it.
> 
> http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#oxygenfree


 

 That's a classic.  It deserves every link it can get.


----------



## grokit

Except he never seems to make the connection between oxidized wire's contribution to signal loss and the benefits of how oxygen-free cabling can prevent said oxidation, thereby preventing signal loss. He even says elsewhere in the same article that, "wire could be copper or silver and perhaps coated with solder containing tin. They expand and contract differently with temperature. They can also become oxidized over time and the connection can become bad to the point where the resistance is significant compared to the resistance in the rest of the circuit." Oxidation is bad, removing oxygen prevents oxidation, end of story. You can't say that when speaker connections oxidize it's bad and when wire oxidizes don't worry about it.


----------



## Train

I'm no expert in chemistry, but I'm almost entirely certain that oxygen in the cable has absolutely no effect on oxidation. Copper most commonly oxidizes when exposed to air and moisture; even your purest of copper wire would form a patina if exposed to the elements. Removing oxygen impurities in the wire would have absolutely no bearing on oxidation, and even the term 'oxidation' does not automatically imply oxygen has any involvement in the chemical process.


----------



## Kees

Quote: 





train said:


> I'm no expert in chemistry, but I'm almost entirely certain that oxygen in the cable has absolutely no effect on oxidation. Copper most commonly oxidizes when exposed to air and moisture; even your purest of copper wire would form a patina if exposed to the elements. Removing oxygen impurities in the wire would have absolutely no bearing on oxidation, and even the term 'oxidation' does not automatically imply oxygen has any involvement in the chemical process.


 
  The chemical reaction with oxygen is the definition of oxidation.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The chemical reaction with oxygen is the definition of oxidation.


 

 Not quite.


----------



## grokit

Oxidation is caused by exposure to oxygen, yet removing the oxygen won't help prevent oxidation? I would like to see some evidence please.
   
  Evidently "Oxygen-free pure copper can be alloyed with phosphorus to better withstand oxidizing conditions", that's interesting as well:
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper#Alloys


----------



## Train

You're not removing giant air bubbles from a cable, you're removing microscopic and even molecular/atomic-scale impurities. Surfaces still exposed to the elements will oxidize all the same, whether 99.9% or 99.99999% pure copper.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Oxidation is caused by exposure to oxygen, yet removing the oxygen won't help prevent oxidation? I would like to see some evidence please.
> 
> Evidently "Oxygen-free pure copper can be alloyed with phosphorus to better withstand oxidizing conditions", that's interesting as well:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper#Alloys


 

 And what is that minuscule amount of oxidation going to do?  Increase impedance by a zillionth of an ohm if you're unlucky?  Its not an issue.  At least not _in _the wire.  If your _connectors _are made out of copper then OFC would mean you'd have have to clean them slightly less often, but most people use gold since you'll never have to clean it unless you also happen to be immortal.


----------



## grokit

That is why I prefer gold-plated connectors and oxygen-free cables, YMMV.
   
  I will pass on even "minuscule" oxidation, if it's possible to avoid it.


----------



## s1rrah

Source: Sflo:2

  Headphones: Shure SE530 / Grado GS1000 / Shure SRH840

   

*BASS: 1*
*CROSSFEED: 0*
*GAIN: 0*
*IMPEDANCE: 0*
   
  ...
   
  Splended sounding for all my mentioned cans. Zero hiss, BTW (as I've been reading some of the comments).
   
  ...
   
  First time ever that I've not had to EQ my SE530's in my DAP ... the level 1 bass setting is just right for me with the SE530's and if it's a particularly lean track (low end) then the level 2 is occasionally used.
   
  ...
   
  After a bit of time with the Arrow, I can still say it's something that will remain in my Collectors Section(tm). 
   
  Sweet bit of gear for sure.


----------



## Dabylpmis

Got this today (#2821). This thing serious kicks ass. Right out of the box. I love the bass setting, my DT 770 Premium really need some songs on level 2 Bass. Corda Headsix wasn't able to get this as i wanted and the FiiO E5 was just a joke. I don't regret the money and the long waiting time


----------



## pseudohippy

When did you get the shipped notice and where are you located. Ive gotta be gettin close


----------



## lazysleepyboi

since you're living in the USA, it should be coming by USPS. I just received mine today, and i'm really enjoying the whole music experience. It's really making my headphones shine with whatever i throw at them. Anyways, i was number 2866, so just be patient, yours should be coming this week. btw, i live in california


----------



## Dabylpmis

shipped notice was 22.12. but post stamp was from 03.01. Somethings messed up there


----------



## Golden Monkey

Mine shipped 12/21, still waiting in California...god I hate the USPS...


----------



## kingpage

Quote: 





dabylpmis said:


> shipped notice was 22.12. but post stamp was from 03.01. Somethings messed up there


 

  
  It could be that the post office had a lot of backlog, and was on holiday for a week or so. The item couldn't be stamped until much later.


----------



## SoulSyde

@kingpage, I couldn't help noticing your signature and tried a hearing test myself.  My range in both ears is about 20Hz to 17,250Hz.  At 19,000Hz you must be part bat!


----------



## Mediaogre

I hate you guys. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Where in the hell's my old-man-with-hand-cupped-to-ear emoticon?
  
  Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> @kingpage, I couldn't help noticing your signature and tried a hearing test myself.  My range in both ears is about 20Hz to 17,250Hz.  At 19,000Hz you must be part bat!


----------



## kingpage

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> @kingpage, I couldn't help noticing your signature and tried a hearing test myself.  My range in both ears is about 20Hz to 17,250Hz.  At 19,000Hz you must be part bat!


 


  It really depends on what headphones or IEMs you have, not to mention the source. Some headphones have rolled-of treble, despite my poor source from my laptop my Aurvana Live extends both ways pretty well and has a slight V-shape response. With my previous IEMs such as PL-30 and M2, I couldn't hear anything after 16000Hz, so you would need a pretty neutral phone without much treble roll-off to know for sure.
   
  The loudspeakers have better reproduction of the treble in general, even with my cheap Altec Lancing i120 speakers I could hear sounds similar to my CAL headphones. I was once convinced that my hearing was only around 15-16000Hz becuase of bad earphones and the laptop speaker, but the fact is many of them produce nothing or a contant beep after 14000Hz.
   
  And by the way, I needed to turn the volume to around 75% or more to hear the buzzing anyway. We don't have a flat hearing, and you'd be a "high-end" monitor human if you do.


----------



## SoulSyde

OK, so here are my impressions of my Arrow 3G...
   
  The GOOD:
  -- Size: very small and pairs well with a J3, iTouch, Sony X-Series, iPod Classic or similar device.
  -- Battery life: as said before, simply amazing!
  -- Construction: very solid and well built.  Great switches, with a firm feel and nice "click" to them
  -- Form Factor: Second to NONE!  All of the inputs, outputs and switches are perfectly placed.
  -- Weight: surprisingly very light.  This kind of caught me off guard.
  -- Sound: The good stuff...
     1.  Bass: Great (setting "2" can be a little bloated on bass-heavy tracks)
     2.  Mids: Realistic and clear
     3.  Highs:  Also realistic without a hint of shrill or sibilance
     4.  Gain: I primarily use setting "1" for just about everything and setting "2" for my HD600s.  I have no need for setting "3" (which is probably designed for 600 Ohm headphones).  This thing has plenty of oomph.
     5.  Impedance: Aside from when I'm wearing my Grados I keep this setting on "0".  It tends to veil the highs too much for my taste.  I only occasionally put it on setting "1" when wearing my SR225i's.
     6.  Crossfeed: The best implementation of Crossfeed that I have heard so far.  Setting "1" is perfect for long listening sessions when you want to minimize fatigue.  Setting "2" is great for hard-panned music.  Both settings do a great job without significantly altering the sound quality.
   
  The BAD:
  -- The volume pot: there is a slight imbalance in the first 10% of the range, but this is common on almost all non-digital volume controls.  Heck, even my NuForce Icon HDP suffers from this.
  -- Impedance: this setting is effectively useless because it veils all frequencies above 4,000Hz so much that it isn't worth using (sans Grados).
  -- Hiss: With about 10 different headphones in my collection only 3 of them experienced hiss (and subtle at that, so I am being very nitpicky here).  The three that showed a subtle amount of hiss were the UE SuperFi 4, Denon AH-C710 and Sennheiser MXL-570; three headphones that really shouldn't be amped anyway so it's a moot point.  The others have enough resistance to negate any hiss.  
   
  Overall, this amp is a 9 out of 10.  Right now, I can't think of a better portable amp on the market.
   
  Here is my current favorite setup:
*Cowon J3 32GB  →  FiiO L2  →  Arrow 12HE 3G (Bass: 1, Cross: 1, Gain: 1, Imp: 0)  →  Ultrasone Pro 750*


----------



## Anaxilus

Nice impressions and absolutely agree w/ pretty much everything!


----------



## hellbent

ive got a pair of xone xd 53 headphones for electronic music mostly, they have a 36 ohm impedance and a max power input of 3,500mW with 53mm drivers. Theyre amazing headphones but i would like to get a bit more mid range quality along with some extra bass response  and warmth, would the arrow work well for these given the specs?


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

What LOD are you using. Enjoy your Arrow!
  
  Quote: 





dabylpmis said:


> Got this today (#2821). This thing serious kicks ass. Right out of the box. I love the bass setting, my DT 770 Premium really need some songs on level 2 Bass. Corda Headsix wasn't able to get this as i wanted and the FiiO E5 was just a joke. I don't regret the money and the long waiting time


----------



## Dabylpmis

It's a QABLES iPod-to-mini cable bought from Jan (http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/)


----------



## Mediaogre

Kingpage, thanks for this perspective. I started with my Shure SE530s at around 16000 Hz, couldn't hear jack (which is pretty much what I expected) and then bumped the frequency down to 14000. Then up to 15000 and couldn't hear anything. However, when I incremented up from 14000 in 100 Hz increments I realized I actually could hear the tone up to around 15500 Hz. And that was with my laptop volume at only 10 of 50. Maybe I'm not as deaf as I thought I was, and maybe the SE530s have rolled off treble as well. Honestly, I never considered that. We're _so_ off-topic, but this is good stuff.
   
  This is Mediaogre, and I approve this off-topic subject matter. 
  
  Quote: 





kingpage said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## maverickronin

The 530s barley have anything above 16kHz anyway, so you're fine.


----------



## Mediaogre

^^ That's sort of what I figured. Thanks. Good to know. By the way, I was surprised but the 530s sent me into phase convulsions at 20Hz. I had no idea they'd produce signals that low.


----------



## SoulSyde

@kingpage, my equipment was Audacity > NuForce Icon HDP > Ultrasone Pro 750.  No IEMs were used in this test.  The Pro 750s as well as the HDP are capable of 20Hz-20,000Hz.


----------



## proedros

Great write up , to the point without being too lengthy.
   
  I finally managed to find a good synergy with my J3/262 , so the arrow hunger is coming back i think
   
  Damn you all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> OK, so here are my impressions of my Arrow 3G...
> 
> The GOOD:
> -- Size: very small and pairs well with a J3, iTouch, Sony X-Series, iPod Classic or similar device.
> ...


----------



## kingpage

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> @kingpage, my equipment was Audacity > NuForce Icon HDP > Ultrasone Pro 750.  No IEMs were used in this test.  The Pro 750s as well as the HDP are capable of 20Hz-20,000Hz.


 

 I didn't realise you have got some serious equipment. However, I couldn't find a FR graph for your Pro 750, only found one for HD600. Is that result better using the Pro 750 compared to HD600?
   

   
  This is a graph showing normal hearing thresholds for three different age groups from a study published in 2009. The sample size is quit small however.
   
  Our hearing range mostly depends on factors such as age, genetics, and the amount of cumulated noise exposure and so on. I'm still younger than 30 (though I have always felt old due to pain in the back and so on). I have been to clubs or pubs only a few times in my life. I never go to concerts. I hate shrills, baby cry or road construction. I tend to cover my ears whenever I hear some unplesant, etc. And my brother who's heaps younger than me can hear past 19000 Hz as well.
   
  Our equipment are usually not geared towards conducting these tests. In my opinion, we can all hear up to 20 kHz, if the sound is "loud" enough.
   
  I think 17250 Hz is not that bad, really. Most harmonics don't go beyond 16000 hz (don't quote me on this).


----------



## Mediaogre

@ SoulSyde - Excellent, well-thought and well-written feedback.
   
  I'll make a simple suggestion with regard to the hiss. Keep in mind that YMMV. I have the G1. However, I also have the J3, so here it is. With the UEs, try leaving the impedance at 0, and set the gain to I or II. Dial down the volume on the J3 down to around 20._ I noticed in your (fantastic) photo you have the J3 at 32. Yikes!!_ I found I start to notice and be bothered a bit by hiss on the J3 a couple bumps past 20. Anyway, trust to drive the volume harder with the Arrow. It drives clean and loud. No distortion. No hiss.
   
  I use my SE530s with the above-mentioned settings (gain II in loud environments) and no hiss.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> OK, so here are my impressions of my Arrow 3G...
> 
> The GOOD:
> -- Size: very small and pairs well with a J3, iTouch, Sony X-Series, iPod Classic or similar device.
> ...


 

 What he said.
   
  Minus the "hiss" comments. But that might just have to do with my having a 2G version or perhaps my particular cans/IEMs.
   
  Glad you enjoy.
   
  I too am considering it at the upper threshold of portables if not the top. I've had mine for quite a while now and am blown away every day. Great bit of design work.
   
  Yep.
   
  YMMV.


----------



## gazar

I have just received mine ( # 2823). After a bit of faffing about  with the settings, I am a very happy chappie. !
   
  I am using the Arrow with a 120Gb Classic/ i-Basso LOD into Westone W3. The settings that seem to give the best overall sound seems to be.
   
*Bass: 0*
*Crossfeed 0*
*Gain 2*
*Impedance 0.*
   
  I found that gain setting 1 was plenty but upping to gain 2 and reducing the volume gave a much better overall SQ The bass was a bit strident at setting 1 and just too much on setting 2. I played a few Porcupine tree and no-man tracks and the improvement from my Nu-Force icon mini was very evident.  I will try my SE530 and UE 5EB out at some point.
   
  I agree with Soulsyde regarding form and function. I was surprised just how small and light this device actually is. I have a low profile LOD coming from Qusp in the next few days. I dont expect any sonic difference but it will cut down the overall size nicely.


----------



## 7swell

SoulSyde, how does the arrow's crossfeed compare to the meier crossfeed on rockbox?


----------



## warrior05

I only have about 15 hours on mine but I have already have heard improvements.  In the very beginning I was hearing a hint of graininess but that has gone away.  I'm looking forward to this amp as it continues to settle in.  It really is quite impressive what this little amp can do.  I haven't played much with the settings other than Gain to drive my DT990/600 and K701 (though I did try the bass boost with the AKGs - whoa!).  It provides a pretty transparent sound which I prefer since I rather let the sound sig of my headphones to dictate what I am hearing.  Therefore, all of my 'phones so far have paired quite nicely with the Arrow.  Haven't tried my RS-1s yet.  That will happen at some point this weekend.
   
  I have to say, I absolutely love the auto on feature.  At first I thought it was a bit gimmicky but now...  When I turn on my iMod, it turns on the amp so there is 0 delay when the music starts which is what I was a bit concerned with.  There have been a number of times when I forgot to turn on my Pico and wondered for a second or two why I wasn't hearing music.  With the Arrow's idiot proof feature I don't have to think about it anymore.
   
  Count me as one satisfied customer!  Looking forward to many listening sessions with my newly configured portable set up!


----------



## dfkt

That's a very nice dock/bridge you made there. Epoxy resin? Fimo?


----------



## warrior05

Thanks.
   
  It is a sculpting compound about the consistency of clay.  You use equal parts of two, mix them together then sculpt with it.  It is non-conductive and cures overnight to a rock hard consistency.  I used it for my Pico/iMod combo LOD and the thing shows 0 signs of wear after several years of use.  Love the stuff.  Unfortunately, I am no sculptor so it isn't the prettiest thing in the world but it does the job.  You also have to get it right the first time.  There is no breaking it apart to save any resistors, capacitors, USB jacks or the 30 pin plug after it cures.  Um... don't ask me how I know that!


----------



## dfkt

Heheh, thanks for the info. I'll look if I can find something like that here in local hobby stores, sure sounds interesting - and more sophisticated that my usual redneck glue gun approach to bridges.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





7swell said:


> SoulSyde, how does the arrow's crossfeed compare to the meier crossfeed on rockbox?


 

  
  The Rockbox pseudo-Meier crossfeed is probably the best at maintaining the original SQ of the recording.  However, it's a very mild crossfeed, I have to really listen to notice the difference between it being On or Off.  The Arrow's crossfeed has stronger channel mixing (especially on setting "2").  It's the best I've heard when you need a powerful crossfeed.


----------



## 7swell

Thanks for the response. I also find the rockbox meier crossfeed very subtle and was looking for something a bit more obvious.


----------



## SoulSyde

You're welcome.  You won't regret purchasing this amp.


----------



## hasanyuceer

My order #3010's status is changed to Arrow 3G Shipped. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Isnt there any tracking number?


----------



## Murat

My Arrow 3G arrived on Friday I don't have a lod, just a 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm cable half a meter long that I bought at Musica after I understood that sony X's included cable wasn't for ho or lo. Connected to Iphone 4 it can drive my dt990 600 ohms really really well with gain 3 and bass set to 1(otherwise dry sounding). Through my um3x gain 2 and bass 0 and love the sound. There is a slight hiss may be same or less than the X which doesn't bother at all. If I increase the imp all the added good detail in the upper range is disappearing especially when listening to ambient music. Now my um3x are performing 2 step up better. At bass set to 1 bass is too much. Now with all the improvements microdetail is amasing soundstage has more layers added to it. Actually one shouldn't write anything about them when listening to Second Sky ( 3am Salvation Mix ). Without any burn in and a lod this amp worths every penny and 3-4 months waiting time for me. Thank you Robert and you guys for putting this forward, its sound is addictive.


----------



## syaknikwa

finaly got mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 arrived a week after my order was shipped, unfortunately i can't use it because i am still waiting for my LOD.. i was surprised how small the amp is
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...  i tried(just inserted them into the amp) my westone um3x and it hisses, but not to loud and it is silent with my akg 271 MK II though.


----------



## dfkt

Interesting that quite a few reports about hiss with the newer variants of the Arrow are popping up. All my phones that are more or less equally super-sensitive and hard to drive (UE11, SE530, etc) as the ones mentioned here, don't hiss at all with my Arrow 1G. I wonder what changes caused that in the new generations of the amp?


----------



## Murat

I guess it is the removal of the output resistor that is causing the hiss. But I think it is more transparent this way.


----------



## rehabitat

Yes, very interesting. No doubt many 1g users like me will be holding out on an upgrade in the light of recent impressions...


----------



## Murat

I guess it is the removal of the output resistor that is causing the hiss. But I think it is more transparent this way as was mentioned in the change log ''better treble control''.


----------



## TranceDude

I am number 2956 and my order is still processing... how is that possible?!


----------



## SoulSyde

Ask Rob on his forum:
http://www.headphonia.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8
   
  ...or send him an email.


----------



## grokit

Well I should be able to compare soon, #2970 in the cue for an exchange. As I am using mine with an iMod/oversize Vcap dock, I wonder how the big caps will affect the hiss issue. I have an e-Q7 and MD Tributes, but will also pull out the Er-6i (which can have hiss issues) and will have an SE530 in a few weeks. If I don't like the 3G I will send it back instead of trading the 1G in, but I have to think that it will be an improvement overall.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Well I should be able to compare soon, #2970 in the cue for an exchange. As I am using mine with an iMod/oversize Vcap dock, * I wonder how the big caps will affect the hiss issue.*


 

 I will say, like many conversations on Head-Fi, this hiss "issue" is being given more credence than necessary.  I am an avid anti-hiss fanatic and it is ever so slight that it's really not worth mentioning (as I stated in my earlier review).  IMHO, if you are using the Arrow with sensitive headphones (which are more likely to be prone to hiss) then I don't see the point.  My J3, Fuze and Clip+ all run my IEMs with the same level of authority as my Arrow.  I really only use the arrow with my full-size headphones.  Sure I'll play around with my IEMs and the Arrow, but it's an unnecessary link in the chain.  My J3 does the job fine with IEMs.


----------



## TranceDude

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Ask Rob on his forum:
> http://www.headphonia.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8
> 
> ...or send him an email.


 

 Few hours later, the status changed to "shipped." Great


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I would tend to agree but obviously I haven't heard the G3 yet. I am planning to use an Ed8 with my Arrow rig when I can afford to acquire one anyways, but it is interesting that there was never a mention of IEM hiss with the G1 impressions IIRC. I did enjoy reading your review and am looking forward to being able to compare the G1 and G3 directly against one another.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





trancedude said:


> Few hours later, the status changed to "shipped." Great


 

 Awesome, enjoy!  And, don't forget to post your impressions (give and receive in the spirit of Head-Fi).


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I would tend to agree but obviously I haven't heard the G3 yet. I am planning to use an Ed8 with my Arrow rig when I can afford to acquire one anyways, but it is interesting that there was never a mention of IEM hiss with the G1 impressions IIRC. *I did enjoy reading your review and am looking forward to being able to compare the G1 and G3 directly against one another.*


 

 Thanks.  I as well, never having heard the G1 or G2 it will be interesting to hear yours.


----------



## Anaxilus

Now to offer an impression on 'hiss' or perhaps 'noise'.  I noticed w/ the 602 it actually matters which side of the Arrow I mount to the back of the 602.  The bottom of the Arrow w/ the bolts offered me the cleaner sound.  Note, the 602 is very sensitive compared to my other DAPs so YMMV.  Especially anything in close proximity to the 602 jacks.


----------



## tuahogary

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Ask Rob on his forum:
> http://www.headphonia.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8
> 
> ...or send him an email.


 


  How do you register on the forum? I posted my username and address to Rob weeks ago but have not got a reply. My order was shipped on 12/21 but still have not received it in UK. I would imagine it should take a week or so to arrive even considering the holiday period.


----------



## proedros

You just saved me 300$ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

  
  Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> I will say, like many conversations on Head-Fi, this hiss "issue" is being given more credence than necessary.  I am an avid anti-hiss fanatic and it is ever so slight that it's really not worth mentioning (as I stated in my earlier review).  IMHO, if you are using the Arrow with sensitive headphones (which are more likely to be prone to hiss) then I don't see the point.  My J3, Fuze and Clip+ all run my IEMs with the same level of authority as my Arrow.  I really only use the arrow with my full-size headphones.  *Sure I'll play around with my IEMs and the Arrow, but it's an unnecessary link in the chain.  My J3 does the job fine with IEMs.*


----------



## hasanyuceer

Does Rob give tracking number when it is shipped? Or shipment is not trackable? Anyone knows?


----------



## wuwhere

When I bought my 1G, no tracking number.
  
  Quote: 





hasanyuceer said:


> Does Rob give tracking number when it is shipped? Or shipment is not trackable? Anyone knows?


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





tuahogary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I think you have to send a request to info@headphonia.com, but I can't remember, it's been a while.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> When I bought my 1G, no tracking number.


 

 +1... just be patient.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





proedros said:


> You just saved me 300$
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you don't have crossfeed on your player already an amp that does have it will easily be worth the money.


----------



## SoulSyde

True.  But if you want crossfeed you can pick up a Sansa Fuze for about $60.
   
  I wouldn't pay $300 for crossfeed, but I would pay $300 for a kick-ass amp to drive my more demanding headphones.


----------



## pseudohippy

So far I think the hiss with my 530s is hideous. Really dont like it but I just plugged them in for a little bit and really Im using it to open up my Grados. Still I need to play with the settings more to see if I can eliminate some of the hiss with the Shures just to do it I guess in the name of science lol.


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Thanks.  I as well, never having heard the G1 or G2 it will be interesting to hear yours.


 

 Since the G1 as well as G2.0 and G2.1 had a default 10ohm output resister (compared to the G2.2 and beyond with NO output resister), I would probably assume that as the reason why there weren't mention of hiss in those versions.


----------



## Leander7777

Why did the resistor get omitted?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





leander7777 said:


> Why did the resistor get omitted?


 

 Because of the TF10's crossover.  That's it, really.  I will never have a TF10 so not sure a 3G makes sense to me.


----------



## Leander7777

Well, I have a TF10, so I guess that makes me happy. How did the resistor affect the 2 way crossover in the TF10s?


----------



## grokit

I am starting to believe that the G1 is the Arrow for the SE530 and the G3 is the Arrow for the Tf10. Perhaps the G4 will have a bypass switch for the resistor? I am unsure what to do as I have ordered both the G3 exchange from my G1, and have also ordered the SE530. Some comparative testing will be in order that's for sure but I am already regretting the SE530 purchase because of this, so we shall see.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> So far I think the hiss with my 530s is hideous. Really dont like it but I just plugged them in for a little bit and really Im using it to open up my Grados. Still I need to play with the settings more to see if I can eliminate some of the hiss with the Shures just to do it I guess in the name of science lol.


 


  I'm not sure what your source chain might be, but I will say this ... I've had the Arrow (G2) in combination with a Nationite S:Flo 2 for about six months, listening through Shure SE530s and, ... I've never heard the Shures sound so bloody good. *No* issues with hiss. Not once (and I listen at fairly loud volumes).
   
  Not trying to discount your claims but just wanted to add a bit of counterweight. I've had phenomenal results with the Arrow and the SE530's. Utter silence. Hissless.
   
  Rock on.
   
  .s1rrah.


----------



## grokit

*pseudohippy*, are you using the headphone out or the line out into the Arrow > SE530?


----------



## dfkt

Or, do the SE530 hiss as well when no source is connected to the Arrow?


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Or, do the SE530 hiss as well when no source is connected to the Arrow?


 

 Great question.  I'm curious to hear his response regarding the SE530s.
   
  As an aside, I can tell you that the hiss I heard (albeit VERY slight) was strictly from the Arrow.  Source connected or not, it was present.
   
  I still love my Arrow.  I can't be happier.


----------



## s1rrah

Headstage Arrow (G2) ... Nationite Sflo:2 ... Shure SE530.
   
  Zero Hiss (and I've blown my ears out looking for it) ... 
   
  ...
   
  Just not there. I'd make it hiss if I could ... but crap man ... it's just not happening. Pretty damn clean.
   
  Enjoy.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> *Headstage Arrow (G2)* ... Nationite Sflo:2 ... Shure SE530.
> 
> Zero Hiss (and I've blown my ears out looking for it) ...


 

 It's been said before, but it's not the G2 we're talking about but the G3.  The output resistor was removed on the G3 which is creating some hiss with certain headphone applications.


----------



## pseudohippy

Well I just pulled my J3>Arrow>SE530 out to test more carefully. I plugged them in after my Grados and didnt play with the settings. I was hoping it would behave with any settings.
   
  Volume J3 = 30
  IMP = II
  Gain = I
   
  Pretty quiet, just a little static.
   
  Gain II causes slightly more static.
  Gain III is off the charts static.
  While leaving on Gain I
  IMP I slight static
  IMP 0 is actually more static
  IMP II for some reason is best
  Gain I, IMP II seems the best with J3 at 30 and Arrow volume up all the way.
   
  Volume J3 = 20
  IMP = II
  Gain = I
   
  Once again the best settings. But still static.
   
  The results are the same as above but greatly reduced. Id say the noise level for J3 volume 30 is a 6 and J3 volume 20 is maybe 1 or 2.
   
  Remember Arrow Volume is cranked and the player is paused.
   
  Then I unplug the J3. Amp is obviously still powered up. Low and behold my findings with the J3 volume 20 are about the same as the Arrow plugged straight into my headphones, no player at all.
   
  Also I should say Im sensitive to static. I hate it!!
   
  J3 is now on charge, Ill test more later. But with SE530 plugged into arrow, and admittedly my mini to mini also plugged in but only on the Arrow side Im hearing static.


----------



## grokit

So now you're not hearing hiss but you are hearing static? I'm confused, what about the hiss?





   Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Well I just pulled my J3>Arrow>SE530 out to test more carefully. I plugged them in after my Grados and didnt play with the settings. I was hoping it would behave with any settings.
> 
> Volume J3 = 30
> IMP = II
> ...


----------



## cn11

I thought I read in this thread a little way back that the J3 introduces hiss with an amp when the volume is 30 or over, and that it's recommended to keep it in the twenties. Am I mistaken?
   
  edit- oh, nvm, I see pseudohippy's volume on the J3 is at 20... for some reason I thought I saw 30. Doh!


----------



## Golden Monkey

EDIT: these impressions were based on looking for the hiss right out of the box...mind over matter, you'll hear it if you want to hear it.  For a more fair and balanced impression regarding hiss on the Arrow, see below (hint: source dependant)
   
  Ok, initial hiss impressions...J3 (vol. 30 and paused) > Whiplash TWag > Arrow (zero burn-in) > EarSonics SM3.
  IMP= O
  Gain= I
  Cross= I
  Bass = I
   
  Hissy.  Is it a deal-breaker?  No.  The hiss is slight (but noticeable) with no signal, but when playing music it's fine.  SQ overall is outstanding and bass is coherent and powerful.  Crossfeed is subtle.  Highs are smooth.
   
  As gain is increased, the hiss ramps up quite a bit, but the higher gain settings with these IEMs is completely unnecessary.  I can completely kill the hiss with the higher impedance settings (and gain on I), but the tradeoff is rolled off treble and the SM3's don't need that, lol.
   
  That's about all I've had time to try so far.  I wanted to get to the heart of the G3 hiss issue, and it's not THAT big of a deal with my sensitive stuff.  I need more time with the amp and playing around with other phones and settings, and I'll post full impressions later.  This is just out of the box, lol.


----------



## dizzyraider

If people with pre-G2.2 versions do not have the hiss issue and the treble does not seem to be dulled, then maybe 10ohm resistance is the amount perfect for the IEMs (for the Triple.Fi, even 10 would kill the treble). Keep in mind the G3 has 0/*20*/65 compared to the pre G2.2's *10*/65/110. Those of you with the hissing issue, you should email Robert and see if he could change the impedance setting to 0/10/55 which would be perfect for most if not all IEMs.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Ok, here's my take on the whole hiss issue...it's a non-issue.  Rob responded to my email within minutes, and said:
   
  "[size=11pt]You really hear a hiss on the lowest gain? Please turn down the volume, set the impedance switch to OFF and disconnect the player. When you turn in and out your IEM’s plug you hear a hiss? If yes, your ears must be very good![/size]
   
  [size=11pt]About the resistors…they are still there when you set the IMP switch to I or II. But in the earlier version there was a 10 ohm resistor at IMP=0 which is not there anymore.[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]Regards[/size]
  [size=9pt]Robert "[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]Under those parameters, no, there is NO hiss.  I'm only getting it on the SM3's when settings on the amp are beyond "reasonable", for example, higher gain settings, impedance off, and volume set to "uncomfortable and beyond" levels.  [size=x-small]For perspective, I can't even USE my SM3's with my Headroom Total Airhead because of the hissing.   [/size][/size]
   
  [size=9pt]Honestly, I think it's a matter of people hearing about hiss, and others going looking for it and of course pushing the amp until they find some (which is what I did).  MY initial impression was based on looking for it,  just like everyone else, and it's sort of an unfair test - had I listened to music at those levels I would have damaged my ears or IEMs. Mountains out of molehills.  Compared to other portable amps I've tried, it's quieter, smaller, more versatile, more transparent, and more powerful than any of them.  [/size]
   
  [size=9pt]As for my dented case, Robert is sending me a new one, no problem at all.  The long wait, long ship time, and no tracking put a slightly bitter taste in my mouth, but the end product and continued support so far is making up for that.[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]EDIT: further testing shows me that a lot of the hiss is dependant on source, for sure.  J3 owners, take note...I get the beginning hissing above volume 28 or so.  Setting at 30 is a good tradeoff, while using the amp to control volume.  At this level, I can set impedance to O, gain to I, and drive the SM3's just fine.  I tried using a portable CD player I have with a line out, and at those settings I didn't get his until the last one or two percent of full volume, well beyond brain meltingly loud levels.  *So, the hiss is very dependant on source...*[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]What really blew my mind with the Arrow was using it with the Beyer T50p's!  Amping the J3 (vol. 30), imp O gain I, there was no hiss, but I needed to turn the amp up to about 75-80% full volume.  Gain II, imp I gave me much more control, and toned down the overly bright treble of the Beyers.  Gain II, imp O was fine, but the hiss was there at (again) mostly full blast, and the bright nature of the phones again jumped to the forefront. [/size]
   
  [size=9pt]T50p + Arrow is amazing...anyone thinking these phones are somehow bass-shy should try them with the Arrow, and bass boost set to I or II.  Palpable and yet not overly bloated on I, and positively pounding on II.  And running the line out from the CD player, I had to drop back down to gain I, imp O.  Amazing.  I can't wait to play around with the Arrow and HD650.[/size]


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> I thought I read in this thread a little way back that the J3 introduces hiss with an amp when the volume is 30 or over, and that it's recommended to keep it in the twenties. Am I mistaken?


 


 This mostly depends on what EQ/BBE settings one uses. Played flat or with most stock presets the J3 is generally dead silent up to 40, especially when feeding an amp instead of phones (just slight hiss with difficult high-sensitivity IEMs, without amp). With custom-tweaked user presets it's possible to make it hiss quite a bit more.


----------



## rehabitat

Nice work Golden Monkey, you are worth your weight...


----------



## pseudohippy

I was using the J3 flat. But please dont misunderstand me. I tested the way I did which may have been unfair. And the truth is I dont even care all that much about the hiss. Im mostly just using it will full size phones that dont hiss at all so Im perfectly happy. It does wonderful things with my Grados. If I do use IEM's Ill try what you said Golden Monkey. The Arrow is by far the best portable amp Ive ever used and the fact I can carry it so easily in any pocket I want makes it incredibly convenient.


----------



## wintwu

I've had mine for 3 month now and love it!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> I was using the J3 flat. But please dont misunderstand me. I tested the way I did which may have been unfair. And the truth is I dont even care all that much about the hiss. Im mostly just using it will full size phones that dont hiss at all so Im perfectly happy. It does wonderful things with my Grados. If I do use IEM's Ill try what you said Golden Monkey. The Arrow is by far the best portable amp Ive ever used and the fact I can carry it so easily in any pocket I want makes it incredibly convenient.


 

 But what about the static, how are you with that?


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well, if you read my testing above which Im sure you have I was pretty hard on it. I dont know at this point. Its fine. There is most undoubtably static but with the settings you can almost eliminate it. Besides the tiny amount you hear with no player involved at all. My Grados dont hiss and thats all that matters to me anyhow. There are some out there that say it is dead silent. Maybe mine isnt as perfect as theirs. Id need another arrow to side by side with. Maybe someone will have one at the Seattle meet on the 5th of March.


----------



## Hellenback

My Arrow G1 *is* dead silent with any head/earphones I've used. I set impedance to 10 and don't feel the need to change it.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> My Arrow G1 *is* dead silent with any head/earphones I've used. I set impedance to 10 and don't feel the need to change it.


 

 But what happens when you use your most sensitive IEMs, crank up the gain all the way, turn up the volume to near full blast, and have your source plugged in but at a high volume and paused?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I only have Copper turbine IEMs and have never heard noticeable hiss.
   
  Under the situation you describe I think you'd hear hiss with most amps.  The settings on the arrow are to complement your gear/set-up. I don't understand why anyone would "use sensitive IEMs, crank up the gain all the way, turn up the volume to near full blast, and have your source plugged in but at a high volume and paused", but that's just me.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 But that's my point...if you (not YOU you, just "you" in general) are concerned about hissing that you've heard about, you're going to go looking for it, and you're going to find it.  With any amp.  It's not practical for any normal listening, but people will do stuff like that, say "omg! I hear hissing too!", and the fearmongering spreads.  At any normal, reasonable settings and listening levels, I detect NO HISSING.  Anything beyond "uncomfortably loud and overdriven", sure...hiss city.  G3 hissing is a non-issue as I stated.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> ...if you (not YOU you, just "you" in general) are concerned about hissing that you've heard about, you're going to go looking for it, and you're going to find it.  With any amp.


 
   
  Thanks for the clarification, I agree entirely.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> But what happens when you use your most sensitive IEMs, crank up the gain all the way, turn up the volume to near full blast, and have your source plugged in but at a high volume and paused?


 

 Who does that?


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  To go to that length to find hiss is absolutely ridiculous..... 
   
  On second thought, I think I hear a very low amount of hiss on both of my Millett Hybrids with my Grado when I turn the volume all the way to the max, OMG...I think I may have issues with both amps.....jk


----------



## Golden Monkey

When I hold a seashell to my ear, I can hear the ocean!  OMG!  All conchs hiss!


----------



## dizzyraider

I really do hope that the majority of those who experience the hiss really experienced the "manufactured" hiss, because I know I would hate to have a portable amp not work with my portable setup.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> I really do hope that the majority of those who experience the hiss really experienced the "manufactured" hiss, because I know I would hate to have a portable amp not work with my portable setup.


 

 I personally think there has been much made of nothing regarding hiss etc. The Arrow is the best portable I've heard and any hiss is likely due to improper settings and/or source. As has already been said; if you go looking for hiss you'll find it, *with any amp*.
   
  Rob is such a perfectionist that if (due to the Arrow's design) there was unwanted noise of _any_ kind, he'd fix it. Just don't run sensitive IEMs on hi gain settings. The amp was made to adapt, not defy the laws of physics!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I am starting to believe that the G1 is the Arrow for the SE530 and the G3 is the Arrow for the Tf10. Perhaps the G4 will have a bypass switch for the resistor? I am unsure what to do as I have ordered both the G3 exchange from my G1, and have also ordered the SE530. Some comparative testing will be in order that's for sure but I am already regretting the SE530 purchase because of this, so we shall see.


 
  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I personally think there has been much made of nothing regarding hiss etc. The Arrow is the best portable I've heard and any hiss is likely due to improper settings and/or source. As has already been said; if you go looking for hiss you'll find it, *with any amp*.
> 
> Rob is such a perfectionist that if (due to the Arrow's design) there was unwanted noise of _any_ kind, he'd fix it. Just don't run sensitive IEMs on hi gain settings. The amp was made to adapt, not defy the laws of physics!


 

 I would tend to agree, but it would be nice to have the TF10 handy with the SE530 and both Arrows to test my theory. I used to have TF10s but had them re-molded then traded them away. If anybody would like to loan me a TF10 for this comparison I would use my own tips...


----------



## Anaxilus

Anyone recall what the total out power is?  Can't seem to find it atm.


----------



## cardozo

I received my Arrow Headstage headphone amp yesterday. For those who bought and not yet received yours, my order number is 2678 and the package was sent to Brazil.

 After some period of listening, I already believe that I can post here my first impressions, remembering that my setup consists of a Cowon J3, the Arrow headphone amplifier and Shure SE530. And here lies another explanation: I'm using this headphone directly from the headphone-out of the J3, for over a month (I own this headphone over a year), so I'm quite familiar with their sound. I have not tried my Ety ER4P, mostly because I need time to reacquaint myself to their sound and this initial assessment could be affected. One thing at a time. Mind burn-in rules.

 With the Arrow, all options were left off or in the lower option, except when quoted in the text.

*Hiss* - Absolutely no hiss. Nothing. Deep silence (remember I'm using the SE530, with his high sensitivity and low impedance). What can be heard is the hiss of the player (above level 35 begins to realize something, especially at level 37. The level 38, on the other hand, is very quiet... Go figure) or the hiss of background of the music itself. Further, the volume pot is also free of any hiss.

*Neutrality* - Neutral to death, perhaps with the faintest touch to the clarity. This amplifier does not add or subtract nothing in the music. It is designed to simply amplify the signal of the source, and makes it perfect. In short, do not think this amplifier is a device to "fix" particular setup, adding clarity or warmth to the sound, expanding soundstage, etc.. In this case, try something else.

*IEM* - Its a complicated item... If we think of an amp is made to increase the source signal, it dont makes sense to use it on very sensitive and low impedance headphones. In fact, the use of an amplifier can even mess the sound of a particular setup.
 The test was conducted only with my SE530, so I can not opine on headphones with high impedance or low sensitivity, but if you look at the technical and constructive quality of the Arrow, along with Robert's obsession for the quality of their products, I believe it reaches its greatest potential when used with this type of headphone.

*Shure SE530* - I love this headphone. He has a funny, but sweet sound. He suffers from a lack of spacial sound, his sound is condensed, but this creates a pleasant intimacy between the listener and the music. Further, his sound is also dark, energetic and forward.

*Shure SE530 + Cowon J3* - I think the sound of the Shure + Cowon J3, when properly equalized, is just perfect. The sound of J3, which leans towards the analytical side, matches nicely with the Shure´s dark signature. And he has enough power to push this headphone. It is pure energy with gentleness, true setup to listen and dance with the music.

*Shure SE530 + Arrow + Cowon J3 *- The words I find are super excited and exaggeration. As the Arrow does not introduce anything into the sound, unless power, the characteristics of Shure + J3 are maintained, however, the sound loses its sweetness characteristic, is "rude" and super excited. Much of the dark feature of this headphone is lost. On the other hand, there are no advantages in terms of soundstage and imaging, which are the weakest aspects of this headphone.

*Arrow Bass switch* - This option with my Shures, even in the position I, is too strong. Thus, I chose to play with the equalization of J3, since you have more control on the bass gain;

*Arrow Crossover switch* - I could not see huge differences, even in position II. On the other hand, there was a slight softening of the sound;

*Arrow Gain switch* - With the SE530? No way!;

*Arrow Impedance switch* - This is the most interesting option of this amp. The higher the position, the sound becomes spacious and attenuated, mainly in the treble region. In this case, it is more a matter of taste. I like this headphone with his forward and energetic sound and the impedance switch takes out this energy, while increasing the soundstage and imaging of the music.

 Finally, I think Robert did a beautiful job on this amp and it can be a beautiful companion for those difficult to play headphones. For IEM's, overall care is needed, because the great power of this amplifier can damage some positive characteristics of a particular headphone.

 It is worth remembering that these are just my first impressions with this unit. And I want to feel free to disagree and criticize my opinion!
   
  Obs: Sorry about my poor english. I do my best!
   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter


----------



## grokit

Thanks for the write-up Peter, great job. Kind of what I was hoping for, except perhaps the "rude and super excited" part.
   
  And your English is excellent!


----------



## SoulSyde

Cardozo, nice review - very thorough.  I can say that I agree with everything you said, without the Shure headphone part of the review (only because I have never Demo'd them, so I don't have any first hand experience with those headphones).  You made a great point that reverberates what I have said earlier in this thread, but I thought that this comment needs to be shared again:
   
*"[Regarding the use of certain IEMs,] If we think of an amp is made to increase the source signal, it [doesn't] makes sense to use it on very sensitive and low impedance headphones. In fact, the use of an amplifier can even [mess-up] the sound of a particular setup."*
   
  I was equally guilty years ago of thinking that an external portable amplifier is the answer to high fidelity.  I've learned that an amplifier does one task (if done well), equally amplify all frequencies without coloring the sound (EQ & crossfeed settings aside - which is the same as tuning your source via-EQ).  I have since learned that fewer items in the source-to-headphone chain can often enhance the fidelity if there is proper synergy between the devices.  I now only amplify headphones that NEED it.  To avoid a debate - it is only my opinion that most IEMs do not need to be amplified by an external amp.  The majority of them will work fine with a proper source device.  In fact, if I didn't own any full-size headphones I likely wouldn't own a portable amplifier today.


----------



## Bennyboy71

This is very true indeed.  I currently use my Arrow with the J3 and my RE262 iems and the 150ohm impedence of the latter really does mean they need to be amped to reach their full potential.  The Arrow does the trick nicely.   Only other time I've needed to amp iems is with the Ety ER4S, but they have a very low impedence.
  
  Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Cardozo, nice review - very thorough.  I can say that I agree with everything you said, without the Shure headphone part of the review (only because I have never Demo'd them, so I don't have any first hand experience with those headphones).  You made a great point that reverberates what I have said earlier in this thread, but I thought that this comment needs to be shared again:
> 
> *"[Regarding the use of certain IEMs,] If we think of an amp is made to increase the source signal, it [doesn't] makes sense to use it on very sensitive and low impedance headphones. In fact, the use of an amplifier can even [mess-up] the sound of a particular setup."*
> 
> I was equally guilty years ago of thinking that an external portable amplifier is the answer to high fidelity.  I've learned that an amplifier does one task (if done well), equally amplify all frequencies without coloring the sound (EQ & crossfeed settings aside - which is the same as tuning your source via-EQ).  I have since learned that fewer items in the source-to-headphone chain can often enhance the fidelity if there is proper synergy between the devices.  I now only amplify headphones that NEED it.  To avoid a debate - it is only my opinion that most IEMs do not need to be amplified by an external amp.  The majority of them will work fine with a proper source device.  In fact, if I didn't own any full-size headphones I likely wouldn't own a portable amplifier today.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Excellent, Cardozo.  Nice writeup.  Your observations regarding the J3 and hiss issue is exactly what I found as well.  Depending on the headphone/IEM, I find that a volume of 28-32 on the J3 is perfect, and there is no hiss.  Higher than that, and it begins to creep in, so yes...it's a source issue.  Not to say that the J3 is a noisy or poor SQ source...far from it.  I think it's just due to amping a headphone out, instead of a line out.  The J3's sound shaping capabilities is one of it's strengths, and with most IEMs I'd say no amp is the best bet.  Regarding the crossfeed on the Arrow - yes, it is subtle but one of the essential features for me.  Position I is excellent, and introduces just enough crossfeed to remove what Headroom calls the "blobs in your head" effect.  Position II adds just a bit more, but try using it with a live recording...it's a nice smooth transition between channels.  If you want to understand the effect's benefits, use position II for a while, then turn it off.  You'll immediately feel the effects of channel separation.


----------



## pseudohippy

I would agree that amping the J3 might be the cause of the small amount of hiss. I used it with the 530's all day yesterday and think its a great combo but I also hear some hiss during quiet passages and at this point I dont really know for sure if its due to the player or the amp and which causes the most. I wish badly I had a portable source with a line out to check it out with. I would say my 3Move is a tad bit quieter with my J3 but the 3Move has a volume pot that crackles really bad  when adjusting the volume which bugs me tons more. The Arrow produces less hiss than the other portable amps Ive used with the S9/J3 though, and I consider the bar to be high.
   
  For those out there, definately dont fear getting a Arrow, its an amazing piece of kit that provides unrivaled adjustability and for me a very transparent sound. It is exceptionally pocket friendly and sized to match with most players. Its the only amp on the market that I would choose to use these days now that Im past having the brick of equipment to carry around with me to listen to IEM's. Amazingly enough, the Arrow is here and allows you to carry a amp in a super sleek little package.
   
  For me, its a must own and one of the best pieces of audio equipment in its general price range out there an possibly better than most everything more expensive when it comes to the portable market. It makes my Grados sound as good as my $1,000+ Woo Audio 2. Both provide a very noticable upgrade from using the J3 alone. Thats a pretty amazingly powerful portable amp IMO.


----------



## cardozo

The things are, sometimes, funny... After nearly five months of waiting and holding one of the best headphone amplifiers that have passed through my hands, I found that I do not need it. I'll probably sell my Headstage Arrow.

 Let me explain:

 I like IEM's a lot. To me, they are the best option in terms of portable sound. I like the sound presentation, the detail, the intimacy between the listener and his music and its small size or portability. At the beginning of my Head-Fi life, I had some full-size headphones, like a Beyer DT880 and a Philips HP1000 and they never sounded so good as my current IEM´s, because the lack of power from my portable setup.

 In fact, I believe that full-size headphones are not made for portable setups, but I will not open this thread here, to the lack of knowledge I have with this type of equipment. And also, because here is not the place for it.

 I concluded that IEM´s, in general, do not require amplification, since you use a good source with a functional equalizer, like is the Cowon J3.

 This morning I realized some tests with my Ety ER4P along with the Arrow and the result, although doing much better than the Shure SE530, was also an over-aggressive sound, wich I dont like in my headphones. Do not confuse energetic sound, which I quite like, with aggressive sound, that makes me tired after a short time of hearing.

 My Shure and Ety work very well connected directly to the Cowon and I found no great benefit when amplified by the Arrow, with its extreme neutrality. The solution is to find the best possible equalization for each headphone, which is not hard with this player.

 Further, I also learned that IEM´s, when they do not have a good synergy with a particular player, they should not be fixed with the use of an headphone amplifier. They must be sold to try other options that are on the market. And I will start to flee headphones so-called "audiophiles", with too high impedance .

 Next actions to be taken:

 1 - Sell the Arrow;
 2 - Send my ER4P to Etymotic Reasearch to replace the cable to ER4S version. I hate to use the P to S adapter;
 3 - Sell the Head-Direct RE-0, which does not have good synergy with the Cowon J3;
 4 - Using the money from the sale and purchase another equipment, perhaps a Hifiman HM-601... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Finally, let me make very clear to prospective buyers that the Headstage Arrow is one of the best headphone amps in the market. You can buy it with your eyes closed. He was the one that solidified my decision to no longer require them. All of them.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter


----------



## Bennyboy71

Um, I might be being stupid here, but surely if you plan to convert those ER4P into ER4S, then you'll be needing the Arrow to drive them adequately?  I cant say for sure because I havent tried them with the J3, but my iPod Classic definitely needing amping to drive the ER4S I had a while ago.  The ER4P worked perfectly well, but the S was a different beast.
  
  Quote: 





cardozo said:


> The things are, sometimes, funny... After nearly five months of waiting and holding one of the best headphone amplifiers that have passed through my hands, I found that I do not need it. I'll probably sell my Headstage Arrow.
> 
> Let me explain:
> 
> ...


----------



## dfkt

Impedance 2 on the Arrow *is* P-to-S, it adds the required 75 Ohm to the ER-4P.


----------



## cardozo

Dear dfkt,
   
  My Arrow is a 3G version, so, in position 2, it adds 65 ohm...
   
  Just to mess with you... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter
   
  Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Impedance 2 on the Arrow *is* P-to-S, it adds the required 75 Ohm to the ER-4P.


----------



## dfkt

Damn, just 10 Ohm short of perfection then, eh?


----------



## cardozo

In our audiophile world, there is no absolute truth, only what our ears tell us...

 There is no absurdity in what you said. I just think the sound of ER4S is much better than ER4P and the difference among them, using only the J3, not counting the sound signature, is only in the amount of volume used. The J3 is quite capable of pushing the ER4S correctly.
   
  To me, at least.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter
  
  Quote: 





bennyboy71 said:


> Um, I might be being stupid here, but surely if you plan to convert those ER4P into ER4S, then you'll be needing the Arrow to drive them adequately?  I cant say for sure because I havent tried them with the J3, but my iPod Classic definitely needing amping to drive the ER4S I had a while ago.  The ER4P worked perfectly well, but the S was a different beast.


----------



## cardozo

Negative. He is perfect in its own way.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter
  
  Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Damn, just 10 Ohm short of perfection then, eh?


----------



## Golden Monkey

You find the only difference between the P and S to be the amount of volume required to drive them?  They sound vastly different to my ears.


----------



## cardozo

For me too. The ER4S, as said above, using an amplifier or not, is far superior to ER4P. There is no comparison.

 What I meant, in general, is that simply increasing the volume of J3 is sufficient to make it  sound correctly.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter
  
  Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> You find the only difference between the P and S to be the amount of volume required to drive them?  They sound vastly different to my ears.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





cardozo said:


> For me too. The ER4S, as said above, using an amplifier or not, is far superior to ER4P. There is no comparison.
> 
> What I meant, in general, is that simply increasing the volume of J3 is sufficient to make it  sound correctly.
> 
> ...


 

 Ah, ok, gotcha.  That makes sense, lol.  I too think the S sounds much better...very analytical and flat, no coloration, great for critical listening.  That said, though, after using the P (and as S, with the adapter cable) for four years,  I came to be really bored with the sound of them both.  No amount of EQing or bass enhancement ever got them to the point where they were musical and "fun" for me.  Just too dry and sterile, not to mention the god-awful comfort issues with the stock tips (I have others to try on them now, but no tip can do a thing as a remedy  for the sound).  Don't get me wrong...I still like them, I just don't find myself doing critical listening when I'm out and about, and when I'm home I tend to use my HD650's and Woo 3, so they just don't seem to have a place in my collection any longer.


----------



## Bennyboy71

You make critical listening sound like a disease.....
   
  I agree though - the Ety ER4s are drier than sandpaper on toast
  
  Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Golden Monkey

Lol...well, I used to think analytical, flat, neutral, ruthlessly revealing and uncolored were all things I wanted, but by the time I got there I just found it to be boring, and listening to music that way all the time just sort of took the fun out of it...coincidentally, my love affair with all of that ended around the time I heard a tube amp for the first time, lol.  I still go in for critical listening sessions, I've just learned to "hear around" the things my equipment add to the mix.
  
  Quote: 





bennyboy71 said:


> You make critical listening sound like a disease.....
> 
> I agree though - the Ety ER4s are drier than sandpaper on toast
> 
> ...


----------



## cardozo

It's confirmed, to my ears at least:
   
  Without the Arrow, my ER4P with P to S adapter, connected to the Cowon J3, gets a touch of warmth and musicality, while the musical image and soundstage are increased. This headphone, with this setup, is less dry and fast, you lose some precision and focus and the bass become more reverberant. In general, this headphone sounds more like a full-sized headphones.

 The volume used in Cowon was 34 and I can show the equalization used, if any curiosity or interest of someone.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter


----------



## Golden Monkey

Yes please...post your ER4 EQ settings in the J3 user EQ thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/531603/cowon-j3-personal-user-eq-settings


----------



## cardozo

Yes, I will!

 Complementing, do you know a Stereogram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereogram), specialy the autostereogram type?

 Because this is the way I hear a ER4S + Cowon J3.

 This headphone is capable of displaying the musical image that I never heard before in other headphones. I realy like it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter
  
  Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Yes please...post your ER4 EQ settings in the J3 user EQ thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/531603/cowon-j3-personal-user-eq-settings


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Damn, just 10 Ohm short of perfection then, eh?


----------



## cardozo

Sorry... I guess Im sick... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SoulSyde

We all are in our own special ways.... heck, an active membership to a web forum dedicated solely to the enjoyment of headphones is proof of that alone.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Funny how active this thread was until we all got our Arrows, and now it's quiet, lol...hope you guys are enjoying your new amps!
   
  Ok, I have a random question...regarding the impedance switch...are you supposed to match as closely as possible to the impedance of your phones, or do the values listed simply ADD that amount of impedance (10, 60, 110)?
   
  And did anyone else notice that the Arrow went up to $299 US?


----------



## dizzyraider

Yes, the switch gives you the option to ADD. I think the reason why this thread has gotten a lot more quite is because instead of asking questions about the amp, people are getting the chance to listen for themselves 
   
  Now regarding the rise in price...probably because the US Dollar is sinking fast.........


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Funny how active this thread was until we all got our Arrows, and now it's quiet, lol...*hope you guys are enjoying your new amps!*
> 
> *And did anyone else notice that the Arrow went up to $299 US?*


 

 I am! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  To your second point, I'm glad Rob did.  That device is worth every penny.  $299 is still fair.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Mine arrived to my friend on Friday. That was fast. (Came on 5th or 7th day)
   
  I will get them tomorrow and post my impressions, finally


----------



## Leander7777

#2963 on the 9th of January and.... I'm still patiently awaiting it 
  About the price raise, I also noticed, when I checked on mine yesterday. I think it's still fairly priced though, since it competes with amps that are still far more expensive.
   
  Luckily, I only paid $240 for it, as I paid from my European bank account, but shipped it to Canada. So, I didn't have to pay taxes


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, now maybe those elitest snobs that need to overspend on stuff to sate their egos and vanities will give the Arrow a fair shake and consider it for its features, performance, and design instead of ruling it out because of its price.  I almost fell into the "it can't be as good as a RSA or TTVJ amp!" trap myself, but sanity prevailed.  Besides, it was the only amp that met my criteria of size, crossfeed, adjustable imp, gain and bass boost, and had all the other details as a bonus.  Why spend another $150 for a name and with none of the features I wanted?


----------



## SoulSyde

I couldn't have said it better.


----------



## Mediaogre

@ Golden Monkey - x2 and I almost fell into the trap too. _(What's up El Cerrito?! -Formerly from Alameda)_


----------



## Andyzz

@ Mediaogre, How does it pair with the SE530 and HD650?


----------



## crd88

[size=medium]Has anyone tried pairing the AH-Dxxxx with the Headstage Arrow HE xG? I've order the Headstage Arrow HE 3G to replace by Fiio e5 in my setup. Cowon S9->Fiio E5->Sennheiser IE7. I listen to electronica specifically trance and dance, POP, and occasionally acoustic remixes. The IE7/E5 are a great pairing and I do enjoy using the +3dB bass boost.
   
  I've been researching for my first full-size over-the-ear cans for a while now. After reading through countless threads on Beyer 770, AKG 702, Grado etc, I'm really excited by the AH-D2000. From what I've read, it sounds like the D2000's give full surrounding bass that doesn't feel hollow nor drowns or colors the mids too much. I'm not looking for 100% purity but as others have put it "fun phones". I'm sure these, when properly driven, will sound great on the Cowon using BBE 3.0.
   
  My new dream set: Cowon s9 -> Headstage Arrow HE 3G -> Denon AH-D2000. 
   
  PS: order No. 3053 Status: processing order Ordered: 1-3-11 
  Thanks for any input.​[/size]


----------



## andkoppel

Order 2962 already in my posesion. So far the amp has saved my s:flo2 from the trade forum. Now that I can use the LO from the Nationite is working for me. A soon as I get some hours in the Arrow I'll try to post some impressions.


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





andkoppel said:


> So far the amp has saved my s:flo2 from the trade forum.


 


  The Arrow deserves a better player than this. 
   
  (Such as the other two in your sig.)


----------



## andkoppel

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They'll get a good chance of mating with the Arrow.


----------



## aamefford

Quote: 





crd88 said:


> Has anyone tried pairing the AH-Dxxxx with the Headstage Arrow HE xG? I've order the Headstage Arrow HE 3G to replace by Fiio e5 in my setup. Cowon S9->Fiio E5->Sennheiser IE7. I listen to electronica specifically trance and dance, POP, and occasionally acoustic remixes. The IE7/E5 are a great pairing and I do enjoy using the +3dB bass boost.
> 
> I've been researching for my first full-size over-the-ear cans for a while now. After reading through countless threads on Beyer 770, AKG 702, Grado etc, I'm really excited by the AH-D2000. From what I've read, it sounds like the D2000's give full surrounding bass that doesn't feel hollow nor drowns or colors the mids too much. I'm not looking for 100% purity but as others have put it "fun phones". I'm sure these, when properly driven, will sound great on the Cowon using BBE 3.0.
> 
> ...


 

 iPod Touch 4G => Arrow G3.0 => Denon D7000, and HR Ultra Desktop DAC section => Arrow G3.0 => Denon D7000, Macbook Pro => DAC Cable => D7000's.  The Arrow does a heck of a nice job with the denons.  It does not best the Headroom Ultra Desktop Amp, but it does a fine job - probably nearly what my Dynalo did.  I still think the denon's do best with a nice desktop amp, but they do well enough with the Arrow that I've considered a pair of D2000's to pair with it for the office.
   
  Other comments from the pairings above - the iPod touch 4G is a pretty decent source!  The DAC section of the HR UDA is better, but not as much as I'd thought.  I think the touch is better than the dac cable, and the dac cable is really a decent dac and the best value around for a $70 dac.


----------



## hasanyuceer

I'd like to write some first impressions;
   
  First, this thing is too thin. When I first saw them, I really said "How?". I like its form factor very very much for my diyMod.
   
  Soundwise, like everyone said this is a neutral amp. Sounds decent. I have nothing to criticise.
   
  About switches; I am very against EQing the signal but I cant help myself using Bass on I. I like its warmness and tightness very much.
   
  About hiss, this is a 3G version. There is no hiss with my UM Mage customs at my listening level. If I open the volume very high, I hear hiss, but I think this is normal. No way I can listen music at that volume level. (When using impedance at 0, Gain I)
   
  My only criticism is about volume pot. There is an obvious channel imbalance at starting volume level. You cant feel and notice the difference (if any) while listening to music.
   
   
  (It's a thick version 5G diyMod (120GB))

   

   
  A thickness comparison with Little Dot MKI+


----------



## Mediaogre

I couldn't ask for a better portable to pair with those two vastly different phones. It's really ridiculous how versatile and efficient the Arrow is. A lot of us here pair the Arrow with the HD650 and believe it or not, it works extremely well. Personally, I've been cranking the gain on the Arrow up to III when pairing with the HD650s. _I like to drive the volume with the amp and not the PMP. _No hiss or distortion, plenty of power, the HD650s sound like they're plugged into something bigger and more expensive, and I get about 15 hours of battery life on full tilt.
   
  I love the SE530s through the Arrow. Some don't, but I get nothing but pleasure. I leave the impedance at 0, set the gain to I or II (yes, II) and bump the Arrow bass boost to I or, occasionally, II. The Shures are bass anemic, but they sound so good driven by the Arrow. Also, lately I've been experimenting with the crossfeed setting and I've left it on setting I for a couple of weeks. I think it makes for a more natural listening experience and with less fatigue for those heads-down moments at work where only metal can distract me from storming into the server room, yanking out all the Ethernet cables and making my own version of the Burning Man. 
  
  Quote: 





andyzz said:


> @ Mediaogre, How does it pair with the SE530 and HD650?


----------



## pseudohippy

Every day I pick up my J3 and Arrow combo (usually first thing in the morning) I cant help but say "damn, I cant believe its such a sleek package".  Im just besides myself about it. Ive used other portable amps in the past and every time Ive picked those rigs up I felt like I was picking up a rock and depending on what I was wearing I wasnt sure where I was going to put it. I havent checked but it has to be a thinner package than the D2 with noreve case, and maybe the D2 by itself. It all fits in my hand perfect and the weight is still just right. Ive had it I think a couple weeks now and there is not a bit of regret. Cant wait to hear it with my MSII+ next week.


----------



## bungsai

My arrow just arrived...plugging it into the computer...no green light turns on, however when i play something through it the red light turns on...
   
  is it charging?!


----------



## cn11

http://www.headphonia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=95


----------



## grokit

I know you have mentioned it before but it's not in your sig, *Mediaogre* so I have to ask. What generation Arrow HE are you referring to here?
   
  Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> I couldn't ask for a better portable to pair with those two vastly different phones. It's really ridiculous how versatile and efficient the Arrow is. A lot of us here pair the Arrow with the HD650 and believe it or not, it works extremely well. Personally, I've been cranking the gain on the Arrow up to III when pairing with the HD650s. _I like to drive the volume with the amp and not the PMP. _No hiss or distortion, plenty of power, the HD650s sound like they're plugged into something bigger and more expensive, and I get about 15 hours of battery life on full tilt.
> 
> I love the SE530s through the Arrow. Some don't, but I get nothing but pleasure. I leave the impedance at 0, set the gain to I or II (yes, II) and bump the Arrow bass boost to I or, occasionally, II. The Shures are bass anemic, but they sound so good driven by the Arrow. Also, lately I've been experimenting with the crossfeed setting and I've left it on setting I for a couple of weeks. I think it makes for a more natural listening experience and with less fatigue for those heads-down moments at work where only metal can distract me from storming into the server room, yanking out all the Ethernet cables and making my own version of the Burning Man.
> 
> ...


----------



## Golden Monkey

Ogre, you sound like me, lol...I used to be a systems/network admin, and it took LOTS of death metal to flush my head of all the assholery I had to deal with on a daily basis... And yeah, Bay Area FTW!
   
  ~~~~~~~
   
  Regarding the channel imbalance with the ALPS pot...it's so insanely slight, and at the lowest volume, that it isn't an issue at all, as far as I'm concerned.  Once you hit the minimum listenable level you can't even notice it anymore.  Also, a few people have mentioned crackling or noise when changing volume up or down...well, it's really a trade-off, because that noise could be stifled with additional circuitry and resistors in the signal path, but omitting this allows for a purer and cleaner signal.  I can't find it now, but HeadRoom used to have a note about this on their site regarding the Total Airhead, and their conclusion was that the unimpeded signal sounded much better (and I agree).  So to those of you that are bothered by the crackling of the pot, rest assured it's normal, lol.
   
  ~~~~~~~~~
   
  I think the form factor with the J3 is a match made in heaven...the entire unit feels so good in the hand, and they look awesome coupled.  I use a super short Whiplash TWag mini with the big rhodium plated Oyaide right angles, and the whole system together is STILL smaller and lighter than just my old Zen Xtra 60gb...so cool.  I have to post pics eventually...
   
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~
   
  Soundwise, I'm loving the Arrow's contribution to the overall sound.  I'm using it with imp on O, and  bass boost, gain, and crossfeed all on I.  I have listened to some music with bass on II, but it's a LOT of bass.  Somehow it still stays controlled and coherent on II, but it's just too much for most types of music.  Heck, even on I it can be a bit much for things like podcasts and such - I listen to a lot of BBC shows, and the bass boost sometimes makes some voices boomy (not really "boomy", but...I don't know..."P"s and "B"s can be explosive if they are spoken too closely to the mic). 
   
  With the Arrow in the mix, I'm using the J3 at a volume level of 32, and the J3 is fantastic at sculpting the sound to my liking. The Arrow just adds a touch of life, almost like a tube amp, but not nearly as colored.  The SM3's don't gain anything really in terms of control or anything, but the T50p's and ESW9's both benefit quite a bit.  The ESW9's have more sparkle and clarity, with a very visceral low end.  The Beyers sound amazing...they retain their brightness and smoothness, but the mids are less recessed and the bass...my god, the bass that seemed hidden in the mix really sounds much more in line with the rest of the spectrum, and it is very solid.  I've yet to try driving the HD650's, but the T50p's remind me a lot of the HD650 with a good tube amp (although in a closed design, obviously, lol).
   
  The Arrow seems to impart a lot more control and adds power and presence more than anything...there's no coloration, no changing of the sound that I can detect, and really allows a quality source to be on display with quality phones...
   
  More to come...I'm only at about 10 hours of burn-in...


----------



## atsq17

Has anyone tried the Arrow with the GR10s?


----------



## Mediaogre

I thought you might get around to asking that, Grokit. And, CRAP. I'll amend my sig. 1G, my man. So, yeah - I've got the 10-120-70 ( 0 II I ) impedance switch measurements.
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> I know you have mentioned it before but it's not in your sig, *Mediaogre* so I have to ask. What generation Arrow HE are you referring to here?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## Mediaogre

Lol, yeah. Client focus, focus, focus through the ACOG scope. Sit still, dammit! 
   
  Well said, GM, in every area. I've mentioned the *slight* channel imbalance, but only in the spirit of honesty and accuracy. It is a non-issue.
   
  The crackle... people, please. If there's anyone complaining about that you _know_ it's only when the Arrow is "warming up" and rubbing the sleep out of its eyes. It goes away in approximately 7.6 seconds after turning it on. Frankly, I find it enduring. Come to think of it, my Gibson Les Paul does it on the volume pot, has done it for years, and it doesn't bother me. I think there's a remedy even. Some pot goo for oxidation, corrosion or something. :-/ <<<WARNING: BUNG SPEAK
   
  Again, well said. Especially, your summary comment, _"The Arrow seems to impart a lot more control and adds power and presence more than anything...there's no coloration, no changing of the sound that I can detect, and really allows a quality source to be on display with quality phones..." _Mmm, good.
  
  Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Ogre, you sound like me, lol...I used to be a systems/network admin, and it took LOTS of death metal to flush my head of all the assholery I had to deal with on a daily basis... And yeah, Bay Area FTW!
> 
> ~~~~~~~
> 
> ...


----------



## bungsai

Yup had a look there...i'll have to just run these batteries flat and hope green light comes on later.........if not, these next 30-40 hours will be bitter sweet.
  
  Quote: 





cn11 said:


> http://www.headphonia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=95


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> With the Arrow in the mix, I'm using the J3 at a volume level of 32, and the J3 is fantastic at sculpting the sound to my liking. The Arrow just adds a touch of life, almost like a tube amp, but not nearly as colored.  *The SM3's don't gain anything really in terms of control or anything*, but the T50p's and ESW9's both benefit quite a bit.  The ESW9's have more sparkle and clarity, with a very visceral low end.  The Beyers sound amazing...they retain their brightness and smoothness, but the mids are less recessed and the bass...my god, the bass that seemed hidden in the mix really sounds much more in line with the rest of the spectrum, and it is very solid.  I've yet to try driving the HD650's, but the T50p's remind me a lot of the HD650 with a good tube amp (although in a closed design, obviously, lol).


 

 Exactly what I found with the SM3 too. It's great with just about everything else I throw at it though. It does great for my new Sony Z1000s, and I really look forward to hearing what sort of improvements I hear with the incoming Pro 900s.
   
  Hope you continue to enjoy the Arrow, I'm sure it was worth the wait....


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> I thought you might get around to asking that, Grokit. And, CRAP. I'll amend my sig. 1G, my man. So, yeah - I've got the 10-120-70 ( 0 II I ) impedance switch measurements.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

  Are you planning/on the list for the 3G upgrade? I am on the list but feel just a bit apprehensive. I love my G1 but since it was only $25 I didn't want to miss out on any improvements.


----------



## cardozo

After a weekend of auditions, my conclusions about the Arrow have changed greatly.

 The Arrow is extremely neutral and amplifies the signal in a very clean way, so leave all the qualities, characteristics and defects of the player in evidence. And this was the problem I was facing, right after receiving the amplifier.

 Depending on the settings used, the Cowon J3 is a very precise and detailed player or, as some say, analytic. And as the Arrow is, as I said above, neutral, it also amplifies this precision and detail characteristics, and with some headphones, the result is an unnatural sound, or even, very digital.

 So who uses the Arrow with the Cowon J3, a warning: Be careful with the BBE, MP Enhance and Stereo Enhance options , as these options has the feature of letting the sound more clear and analytical, making the sound much digitized and unnatural. Already, the lowest options leaves a neutral or warm sound. Thus, with the Cowon J3 + Arrow setup, it is important to get a setting that is not overly bright or too hot and boring. The balance is very welcome.

 Result of tests for some headphones
   
*SE530 + J3 + Arrow* (Bass: 0; Cross: I; Gain: I; Imp: 0) - After messing up with the Cowon settings for this headphone using the Arrow, is gone the feeling of aggressiveness that this setup provided. What I found is a full sound with good soundstage and musical image. The problem was a very digital sound to my liking, and after some attempts in equalizer/BBE effects, a dark sound. I'm still looking for the best EQ for this headphone;
   
*DBA-02 + J3 + Arrow* (Bass: I; Cross: I; Gain: 0; Imp: 0 or I) - I got this headphone, after much waiting and fighting, at the end of last week. This is the setup where the Cowon J3 works as closely as possible on flat settings, including the MP Enhance option in off. The amount and quality of detail in this headphone is impressive, with good aeration and soundstage, although this is not very accurate, hindering the construction of the musical image. The bass, with proper equalizing and the use of bass option in Arrow, are quite well defined, dry and fast. The mids have good tonal timbre and treble are clear and extended. This headphone is a kind of cousin of the Ety ER4, with a sound signature directed to the detail, however, makes it in a competent way.

*Ety ER4 + J3 + Arrow* (Bass: 1; Cross 0; Gain: I; Imp: 0) - Once past the shock of the DBA, I believe the Ety ER4P + P to S adapter is the best headphone for this setup. To give you an idea, this is a dark headphone in comparison with the DBA-02... So the first thing that draws attention in this setup is the elegant way in which the detail is delivered to the listener. While the DBA-02 delivers the details without any ceremony, the ER4 does this by creating an excellent sound stage with a convincing musical image, a slightly warm sound signature. The ety creates an conducive and relaxed atmosphere to delivery his details
   
  Now, an explanation: The best option with ER4P is the use of P to S adapter, than using the impedance option on the Arrow. To me, at least. With the adapter, the musical image representation is much more focused and precise, as well as the correct extension of the soundstage. Moreover, the impedance option on the Arrow, without the P to S adapter, left the sound too far away, with the musical image and soundstage too much vague, unfocused. This, to me, is the difference in sound between the adapter and impedance option (position II) in the Arrow, that is, in the end, only 10 ohms...

 Still not finished... :O) It is worth mentioning the excellent crossfeed function in the Arrow. With it enabled, the sound is much more natural and engaging, the sound takes off his ears and is floating above his head. This option is essential that those phones have some difficulty with the maintenance of the musical image. On the other hand (and there is always some...), the quality of construction of the musical image of the Ety's is so good and real that I leave this option disabled when I'm listening.
   
  Sorry about my bad english... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter


----------



## proedros

You're joking , right ? I have a Proficiency diploma in English and you speak the language better than me.
   
  You speak better than some native English people imo
  
  Quote: 





cardozo said:


> Sorry about my *bad english..*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mediaogre

I haven't decided yet. I'm satisfied with my 1G. I did have the bug at first, but now I'm not so sure. So, I'm not on the list... for now. As I like to say, "the sheep's in the water."  _("Wool sea" - we'll see)_
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cardozo

You are a very nice person 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thank you.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter
  
  Quote: 





proedros said:


> You're joking , right ? I have a Proficiency diploma in English and you speak the language better than me.
> 
> You speak better than some native English people imo
> 
> ...


----------



## Bennyboy71

I have 1G Arrow too.  Strangely, I bought the Arrow when it first came out, sold it then rebought a 1G a month or so back.  I've looked at what the 3G offers over the 1G and to be frank I can't be bothered sending it off and paying the extra just for that minimal upgrade. 
   
  Or am I missing some big leap in fidelity and functionality that the new gen offers?
   
  Quote:


mediaogre said:


> I haven't decided yet. I'm satisfied with my 1G. I did have the bug at first, but now I'm not so sure. So, I'm not on the list... for now. As I like to say, "the sheep's in the water."  _("Wool sea" - we'll see)_
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## grokit

AFAIK, there have been some claims of better treble but I'm with you, if anybody knows what the improvements are actually supposed to be please weigh in.
   
  No one has been able to compare the two yet, but as Robert is willing to let me compare the two I'm sure I could send the new one back if I wanted instead of trading in the 1G. But will that still cost me the $25, plus the return shipping? Talk about taking one for the team!
   
  Btw, what was the non-HE version called, the 0G? I had ordered that one originally and upgraded at the last minute to the HE version for another $50.


----------



## SoulSyde

Bennyboy71, from the sound of it, I don't believe you are.


----------



## zappp

As I wrote two weeks ago I had 1G (from March 2010) and 3G in my hands and on my ears over the Christmas holidays. Heard with REO, HD580, K271, D5000. No systematic "burn-in".
   
  It was very hard if not impossible to detect a difference in SQ which is exactly in line what Robert says on his own forum. Under torture I would admit the 3G sounds very slightly warmer, the 1G a tad dryer. I am not a reviewer hence lack the language capabilities to describe SQ. 
   
  Heck, for me (!) it was €15 for the upgrade and €2 postage to return the 1G in exchange for peace of mind (!), longer battery life (makes sense at higher gain settings for low sensitive or or high impedance headphones), a 2nd headphone jack, no exposed power switch and of course a new, unused 3G with fresh battery. And with RE0 or K271 you can't have enough bass boost.


----------



## Hellenback

This post pretty much covers what I would say re: the Arrow/650 pairing. Thanks Mediaogre 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> I couldn't ask for a better portable to pair with those two vastly different phones. It's really ridiculous how versatile and efficient the Arrow is. A lot of us here pair the Arrow with the HD650 and believe it or not, it works extremely well. Personally, I've been cranking the gain on the Arrow up to III when pairing with the HD650s. _I like to drive the volume with the amp and not the PMP. _No hiss or distortion, plenty of power, the HD650s sound like they're plugged into something bigger and more expensive, and I get about 15 hours of battery life on full tilt.
> 
> I love the SE530s through the Arrow. Some don't, but I get nothing but pleasure. I leave the impedance at 0, set the gain to I or II (yes, II) and bump the Arrow bass boost to I or, occasionally, II. The Shures are bass anemic, but they sound so good driven by the Arrow. Also, lately I've been experimenting with the crossfeed setting and I've left it on setting I for a couple of weeks. I think it makes for a more natural listening experience and with less fatigue for those heads-down moments at work where only metal can distract me from storming into the server room, yanking out all the Ethernet cables and making my own version of the Burning Man.
> 
> ...


----------



## cn11

The 1G Arrow is amazing with my new Ultrasone Pro 900. I can echo what mediaogre says about being such a versatile little amp with larger phones too!


----------



## Leander7777

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> The 1G Arrow is amazing with my new Ultrasone Pro 900. I can echo what mediaogre says about being such a versatile little amp with larger phones too!


 

 X2! A special little package arrived this morning. I`ve been auditioning it with the pro 900 and so far I`m quite pleasantly surprised... Too bad I need to go to work now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  @Cn11: What are your settings for the pro 900?


----------



## SoulSyde

I hope you don't mind if I chime in...
   
  With my Pro 750s (almost identical to your 900s) I have it set on Bass: "I", Cross: "0" (or "I" if listening to heavily-panned music), Impedance: "0", Gain: "II"


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> I hope you don't mind if I chime in...
> 
> With my Pro 750s (almost identical to your 900s) I have it set on Bass: "I", Cross: "0" (or "I" if listening to heavily-panned music), Impedance: "0", Gain: "II"


 

 Do you get any noise on the higher gain settings with full sized cans?


----------



## SoulSyde

Not on Gain: "II."  For reference I only needed to go about 50% on the volume pot for normal listening.  I never used it on Gain: "III" as I have yet to own a pair of headphones that requires that high a gain setting.


----------



## cn11

Yeah, same here.... Gain @ II, bass at 0 or I, depending on how quietly I'm listening. Nothing else used on the Arrow. I love how the Pro 900s are still quite full and punchy sounding at low volume.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> Yeah, same here.... Gain @ II, bass at 0 or I, depending on how quietly I'm listening. Nothing else used on the Arrow. *I love how the Pro 900s are still quite full and punchy sounding at low volume. *


 


 Absolutely, I really-truly love my Ultrasones - especially with the Arrow.


----------



## Mediaogre

FWIW - my HD650s are dead silent (until I crank the volume and the thunder ensues 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) on gain III.



golden monkey said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Leander7777

Thanks for the replies.
  Well, I'll get to test it a little more, once I get back from work. For now, I'm interested in how gain II improves upon gain I. as I felt with gain I the pro 900s were plenty loud. btw, how long does charing take?
   
  On a side note: I really liked the overly simplistic design, as it really gave the impression that some bloke assembled it in his garage and sent it off


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





leander7777 said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> Well, I'll get to test it a little more, once I get back from work. For now, I'm interested in how gain II improves upon gain I. *as I felt with gain I the pro 900s were plenty loud. *btw, how long does charing take?
> 
> On a side note: I really liked the overly simplistic design, as it really gave the impression that some bloke assembled it in his garage and sent it off


 


  It depends on your source.  My preferred source to amplify is my Cowon J3 which I think sounds best at about 50% volume before being fed to the amp, therefore the gain on the Arrow needs to upped to setting: "II."


----------



## Golden Monkey

Cool, I still need to give the HD650/Arrow combo a whirl...no time though, lol.


----------



## warrior05

I have been primarily listening to my 3G with my two fav frankenphones I built and I have been nothing but impressed with this little beast. I have had some most enjoyable listening sessions. This amp is certainly worth every penny and then some. I know Rob upped the price recently. I still say it is worth more than its cost. Count me uber impressed!


----------



## Mediaogre

Man, I thought you got yours forever ago! Okay, I'll bite. Frankenphones? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





warrior05 said:


> I have been primarily listening to my 3G with my two fav frankenphones I built and I have been nothing but impressed with this little beast. I have had some most enjoyable listening sessions. This amp is certainly worth every penny and then some. I know Rob upped the price recently. I still say it is worth more than its cost. Count me uber impressed!


----------



## warrior05

I build my own headphones by combining and modding parts. I retrofitted a pair of DT880 drivers into an old Sennheiser HD590 chassis - very musical sounding. Then I took a M-Audio Q40 chassis and upgraded the headband and earpads, treated the sound chambers and retrofitted a pair of Shure's SRH750DJ drivers. Worked out to be a basshead's dream.
   
  There are others I've done but you get the idea.


----------



## Andyzz

Quote: 





mediaogre said:


> I couldn't ask for a better portable to pair with those two vastly different phones. It's really ridiculous how versatile and efficient the Arrow is. A lot of us here pair the Arrow with the HD650 and believe it or not, it works extremely well. Personally, I've been cranking the gain on the Arrow up to III when pairing with the HD650s. _I like to drive the volume with the amp and not the PMP. _No hiss or distortion, plenty of power, the HD650s sound like they're plugged into something bigger and more expensive, and I get about 15 hours of battery life on full tilt.
> 
> I love the SE530s through the Arrow. Some don't, but I get nothing but pleasure. I leave the impedance at 0, set the gain to I or II (yes, II) and bump the Arrow bass boost to I or, occasionally, II. The Shures are bass anemic, but they sound so good driven by the Arrow. Also, lately I've been experimenting with the crossfeed setting and I've left it on setting I for a couple of weeks. I think it makes for a more natural listening experience and with less fatigue for those heads-down moments at work where only metal can distract me from storming into the server room, yanking out all the Ethernet cables and making my own version of the Burning Man.
> 
> ...


 

 Im using UM3X now and probably wont upgrade in 1-2 years (hopefully)... When i auditioned it, the signature is similar to SE530 so I guess the arrow would work similarly with my um3x. After gathered enough fund after it, i might also jump to headphones... HD650 is my first option


----------



## Smokhee

I ordered some HD 650's that should arrive by next Tues.  I will let you know how they sound with my Arrow 3G. 
   
  A question for the gang.  I have an iphone 4 as well as some older ipods that I can use via LOD to my arrow.  I have caught the bug and now I am wondering if I should get a Sansa or a Cowon.  I have heard that the iphone 4 sounds pretty dang good.  Has anybody here compared the iphone 4/LOD to the Sansa (no LOD apparently) or the Cowon through the Arrow?  Is there really a difference?


----------



## dfkt

There's hardy any real difference between any of the modern quality players. I did volume-matched AB tests between a dozen players, and they all sound basically the same.


----------



## sidk47

Hi all,
   
  I recently obtained a FiiO E5. It is my first headphone amplifier ever. However, I am not satisfied with it for the following reasons:
   
  1. Bass boost, is good, and so far, has been used instead of remaining unused. However, it seems to color the sound and muddies it, in a very almost mild way.
   
  2. Even with the FiiO E5 maxed out, I still feel I'm not getting enough volume for my headphones (Creative Aurvana X-Fi). Sometimes the magic middle position seems to suffice, but, upon closer inspection, it seems to introduce some distortion.
   
  Will a Headphonia Arrow HE solve these two problems? Will it have a better more transparent bass boost and enough volume for me? Will its sound stage be more transparent and clearer? Is it worth (with the DAC USB cable) approximately 10 FiiO E5s?
   
  Thanking you all,
  Siddharth.


----------



## The Larch

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> There's hardy any real difference between any of the modern quality players. I did volume-matched AB tests between a dozen players, and they all sound basically the same.


 


  wat ........... two wolfson dacs don't increase "soundstage"


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> There's hardy any real difference between any of the modern quality players. I did volume-matched AB tests between a dozen players, and they all sound basically the same.


 

  
  Amen brother...I'm glad SOMEONE around here has the courage to state this.  It's like all the million shades of grey differences between amps...a good amp is a good amp.  It's the feature sets that set them apart.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





the larch said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  It's not that there is NO difference, it's just more subtle than that.


----------



## sidk47

Hello?


----------



## grokit

I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that the Arrow will be an improvement over the E5 in volume, and that the bass boost will be "better". Whether or not it goes loud enough for you with your headphones is another matter, as well as what "better" may mean for you as an individual with your own unique tastes.


----------



## deadguy99

The volume gain on the Arrow is significantly louder than an E5 as ive owned 3 e5's and also the T4 which i bought to get my headphones to play "louder" which was nearly identical to the e5 with only minor quality differences, so i pursued the Arrow 12HE and i'll tell you i could blow most headphones with this amp and its clear as day at any volume never a hint of distortion and the bass boost is like nothing ive ever heard and everything ive always wanted .. low and strong with impact that brings any set of drums to life on both my ie8 and tf10 phones.. I also bought a pair of sony XB500's .. didnt enjoy the headphones themselves cause of the lack of sub bass only upper bass .. but i was able to get these things so loud they literally vibrated on the side of my head .. and it hurt me ears but i still couldn't detect any distortion


----------



## cn11

^^ Yes yes... what they said. With the same effect observed on my Pro 900s....


----------



## ANDEROAN

yes i just got some xb500's off of amazon for $38.00 shipped i love them paired with my Voyager and ipod lod, i set the eq to dance, seems to balance out the mids and highs enough, while still thumping on my head with the bass!!! i use my tf10's when i'm out and about, which also comes through on the bass, and seems to have good mids and highs, really my first set up, shrinking my wallet, while expanding my equipment, i have an arrow on its way, got it from Qonad, should be here in about three weeks, can't wait to try it out and do some more comparing? a bit of a newbie here, and limited on experience? but i love what i have for now, the voyager is Ka Sweet, soon will be introducing the Arrow into my happy audio family, looking forward to the adjustable features, and from what i 've been reading a larger soundstage also, ggrrrr!!! can't wait now and when funds permit, my next shrinkage will be a pair or REO's, from what others are saying they will pair niceley with the arrow!!! thanks head-fiers, awsome and informative forum here, great members totally helpful!!


----------



## rehabitat

Quote: 





anderoan said:


> ..., and from what i 've been reading a larger soundstage also, ggrrrr!!!


 

 Um, no not really.  The Arrow is not really known for en-largening the sound-stage. That trait is more reliant on your phones and source material in this case.


----------



## sidk47

@grokit and deadguy99

 Thanks a lot for your observations. I may just go for a Headstage Arrow HE soon.

 Also, sorry, and this is the last time, but please let me venture off-topic once again, what does a Line Out Dock really do? I bought a FiiO L6 for Sansas, and much to my surprise, it doesn't really seem to bypass the internal amp of my Fuze, because my volume control still works on my Fuze.

 Could anybody explain why a LOD is needed, what it really does, and why it doesn't really seem to be working as expected for me?

 Thanking you all sincerely,
  Siddharth.


----------



## deadguy99

If you can afford an Arrow GO FOR IT  you wont be let down. that being said you will have a cleaner and clearer music with a line out .. pick up a cheap Fiio l1 from amazon there like 10 bucks shipped iirc ive bought 2 so far .. the first shorted out after a few months of use but for the price i don't mind .... you will by pass the internal amp on the ipod and you will get a pristine sound at high volumes unlike the headphone out which distorts near max volume and has really harsh highs and little to no impact from drums/bass compared to the line out with a good amp.


----------



## ANDEROAN

thanks for the input rehabitat
   
  yes i'm behind you on that, if by source material, are you talking about format? wav vs mp3 kinda things? or also DAP's? and HO as to LOD? or all i imagine contribute as to the soundstage, and or the synergy, of the outcome,
   
  as well as silver vs copper LOD, and maybe getting some lune cables for my UE TF 10's will also have an effect on the soundstage from what i've been reading, but there are 2 camps as to cabling it seems, some say big difference some say little to know diff, and in the world of selective hearing, we'll all hear things differently, so it'll be a matter of opportunity, of what were able to get our hands on and try out so as to know if its a thing that will work for a particular person? 
   
  i have some bobby vinton songs that just open up like i was in a cathedral, love those alot, which are in mp3 format, as are all my recordings now, i did have the majority of my songs in WAV and they did have more detail,  but then my ipod classic, or more in particular itunes ugh, never reocognized song info, title, band or album, so i couldn't ever select them to play them other than selecting shuffle? i'm sure i could get around that by utilizing itunes better, by creating playlists, it seems i could catagorize the WAV files, if i could figure it out duh, wrong forumfor that though     wwwww
   
  and also while my voyager was burning in, which took about 1,200 hours to settle in completely, the soundstage would fluxuate from one extreme to another from super wide and deep to very very closed and non existant? which i think wouldn't be from any other thing other than the amp?
   
  so when i've read on peoples comments on the the arrows soundstage, i guess it won't be as comparable to something like ALO Rx's? which i've only read about being large? unfortunately i haven't had the opportunity to try out any variety of amps, oops i stand corrected, duh! and here i always thought riding the short bus was a good thing, lol, oh i just reread your reply,"in this instance" some amps will ad to the soundstage but the arrow doesn't, headphones and my source material is what will make up the difference, oh well there i go learning the harder way yet again, but i'm sure i'll be loving it like my voyager, i will know in three weeks, so what i have for headgear are TF10's and new sony xb500's, i've discovered that i'm self confessed BASS HEAD, and a 7th gen ipod classic, lots of room so i'll have to figure out how to organize my wav files so i can select them,  to listen, other than on shuffling, other than that i was considering an set of the REO iems, for my next purchase as people have been giving them good synergy reviews with the arrow, any sugestion for future prchases or input on my current inventory, i'm happy to hear, although i think i'm gonna be very happy with the arrow regardless, thanks again!
   
                i guess i'll have to enter into the world of buy n try, bu wa ha ha ha ha!!!!     the s
   
   
   (((  but like i said i'm still new to the shrinking wallet syndrome, mmmm, but oh how sweet it doth sound, and to each his own to experience and to learn, and in effect to know for ourselves,
      we can read all we want about what the water is like, but until we take the plunge????? it's all just speculation, and alot of, ya just don't say, ooohs and aaaahs!!
     so after starting my reseach on my voyager, and reading tons of info on other audio gear available, which was about a year ago, from the ooh soo wonderful forums here on head-fi, and jaben aswell, i started my quest of rediscovering music, i took the plunge after i came across a good priced voyager from the Advanced MP3's site, the waters were still murky but i pressed onwards, because i knew that my quest was just beginning, then i hunted down the elusive but very deadly, lol, err, although not top end but more affordable TF10's, renowned for there simple sport, and TRIPLE DRIVERS, holy cows batman!
     i went from listening off my archos 704 with my razor morrays, to the elusive TF10's and my killer Voyager, krikees i'm big time now, lol, little did i know i was heading for DANGER!! (will robinson) hold on to my pants things are going to start to get REALLY tight, eerrg!
    now i know i was still missing something critical, because i wasn't getting the goosebumps that i was searching for from that ultimate thrill of the hunt, when after you pounce your audio prey and rip out its heart and drink the juices from the untimate audio file kill! lol, sorry getting carried away!
    thats when i started to hear of rumors that come from the darkest recesses, of the deep forrest of tim buck head-fi, about the most fericious LOD, that can supply purest sound that can come from ipods (well not so) sinister arsenal (after reading and being poisioned even more now, thanks HEAD-FI!!)
     so i hopped onto ebay to discover a used ipod 6th gen 80gb, at a good price, a vehicle well renowned to accomidate the powerful audio eargasms that an a LOD can supply,
     but wait danger lurkes beneath the surface, holy shimoles there is a big hidden catch to buying ipods w/hard drives second hand, eeeeck! they sometimes have bad sectors, well no prob, i'll just rip its heart out and replace it, low budget here i come, surprise be careful, those connectors are really thin, snap, more shimoles, more plunging, 7th gen 160 gb here i come, finally i have arrived, audio nirvana, ka sweet, DOH!!! i forgot 1 thing, quit reading! or i'll know what shrinking walletitice is really about, 
     another plunge, so now my arrow is on its way, thanks Qonad, and head-fis sales forum!!  )))
                                 
                                                              "Sorry didn't mean to get OT"
                        
                                 just one mans starting journey into HI-FI  "bu wa ha ha ha ha"
                                
                                                   Evil i tell you just pure tasty audio Evil! 
                                                     so this is what the dark side is like,
                                     not bad actually, i kinda like it really, i like it alot, lol, 
                            
                                 Thanks and appreciation to all you HEAD-FIERS out there,
                                           from one that has been lurking for a long time,
                                        yours truly, newborn baby darklord, will robinson
                        its about time that i make my presence known, ttthhhrrrkkk, ttthhhrrrkkk, lol
                        have yourself a good listen, and if i don't see ya, a great audio afterglow,


----------



## cardozo

I have to disagree. Have you heard any of the Hifiman players? It is not possible for you to compare this player with a Sansa Fuze, for example. Even J3 loses by a wide margin.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Peter
  
  Quote: 





dfkt said:


> There's hardy any real difference between any of the modern quality players. I did volume-matched AB tests between a dozen players, and they all sound basically the same.


----------



## dizzyraider

Quote: 





cardozo said:


> I have to disagree. Have you heard any of the Hifiman players? It is not possible for you to compare this player with a Sansa Fuze, for example. Even J3 loses by a wide margin.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...


 


  Not to say whether I think dfkt's observation is accurate or not, but I know he did at one point owned a HM801.

  
  Quote: 





rehabitat said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Although I did feel an enlargened (I know it's not a real word...) sound stage when compared to straight out of S9, but is probably due to the better clarity/separation over no amp at all.


----------



## The Larch

Quote: 





cardozo said:


> I have to disagree. Have you heard any of the Hifiman players? It is not possible for you to compare this player with a Sansa Fuze, for example. Even J3 loses by a wide margin.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...


 

 dfkt probably was not talking about hifiman in his post.


----------



## rehabitat

By source material I meant the actual recording and how much discernible ambient information it contains, like if you can hear the room in which a recording was made,  colorations and reflections etc of the space.  File format is a lesser influence but still important as a poor or lossy format can reduce the amount of ambient sounds that get through.  The third important factor is the driver of the music; speakers or phones.  All of these are greater than the influence of an amp (e.g. Arrow) or source (e.g. ipod), especially in terms of ambience or sound-stage.
   
  My advice is; don't sweat the small stuff.  The Arrow is a great little amp if it fits your lifestyle and if you require a versatile unit that can cope with pretty much whatever you connect to it.  I believe that the consensus is that the Arrow is basically a 'neutral' sounding amp, notwithstanding the many season to taste functions that no other portable amp even comes close to.


----------



## warrior05

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *rehabitat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...
> 
> My advice is; don't sweat the small stuff.  The Arrow is a great little amp if it fits your lifestyle and if you require a versatile unit that can cope with pretty much whatever you connect to it.  I believe that the consensus is that the Arrow is basically a 'neutral' sounding amp, notwithstanding the many season to taste functions that no other portable amp even comes close to.


 


  Very well said. Couldn't agree more.


----------



## ANDEROAN

cool thanks for the input 
   
       REHABITAT  & DIZZYRAIDER
   
       i'm looking forward to getting the Arrow and letting my ears take her out for a test drive! i'll post some impressions, after some time, albiet newbie though they will  be, and do an AB comparison with my Voyager, hopefully i'll have some REO's to add to the mix by then


----------



## Mediaogre

@ Rehabitat x2, my fine Australian friend.


----------



## rehabitat

Cheers gentlemen!


----------



## mythless

I am still trying to burn in my Arrow, the battery life on it is very good.


----------



## SoulSyde

What exactly are you waiting to happen in this "burn-in" process?


----------



## Leander7777

Burn-in is supposed to add smoothness and reduce treble harshness.


----------



## grokit

...by de-sensitizing our auditory response.


----------



## Leander7777

I was answering a question that didn't pertain to me. So whether I stand to what I said or not, is beyond the scope of this conversation.
  All I'll say, is that I have a friend who is a high-end audio dealer and I have heard plenty of burned-in and brand new amps and, yes, there seems be a difference. And since it wasn't my equipement, namely the equipement I'd be a customed to, I think we can safely rule out de-sensitizing of the auditory response.


----------



## Golden Monkey

...but not the power of suggestion, maybe?
   
  I'm not saying equipment (especially amps) don't benefit from burn-in/break-in, but a lot of what people claim regarding AMOUNT of break-in (in degrees of difference and length of time required) is ridiculous.  Yes, capacitors need some time to burn in and settle down, but we're talking larger ones, not the tiny little values in most portable stuff.  Headphones, absolutely though...but that's a mechanical break-in (diaphragms moving, voice coils settling, etc.)...and don't get me started on cable burn-in...that's a load of nonsense.  Maybe on some fundamental level there is a change, but can you HEAR it, definitively?  Gimme a break(-in).


----------



## The Larch

Quote: 





leander7777 said:


> Burn-in is supposed to add smoothness and reduce treble harshness.


 


  how is this possible on an amp, I understand that burn in can exercise/stretch a driver but an amp has no moving parts to alter in a burn in process.


----------



## Leander7777

Well, my experimentation was done with large desktop amps. I'm not saying I'm a believer, expecially when someone suggests that something portable and small, such as the arrow, needs burn-in, but I do recall hearing a difference while comparing large SS amps. My friend who has been working with such equipement for a very long time, however, agreed that there is a subtle improvement over time, ofcourse not as large as that of a driver breaking-in.


----------



## bobloblaw

Just ordered an Arrow 3G, and am excited to receive it.
   
  After owning everything from HD650s and AKG-K701s to small, cheap IEMs, I've decided that good IEMs are going to be my focus from now on. I love my larger cans, but I find myself using the IEMS far more often. Based on my new "portability is king" ethos, the Arrow seems like a good purchase. I had a Practical Devices XM4 a couple of years ago, and the crossfade was a feature that I really ended up liking a lot, so that was the deciding factor between the Arrow and Pico Slim for me.
   
  I'll try to post impressions once I receive it.


----------



## sluker

Quick question for those who received their G3 arrows: How long was it from the time your order updated to "processing" to the time it actually shipped?


----------



## s1rrah

I finally got around to doing a proper review of the Arrow. Here's the link for anyone interested:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/538016/review-the-headstage-arrow-he-portable-amplifier
   
  rock it.
  joel.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Joel, that review ROCKED.  Replied as well...and at some point I'll post some pics too...just not sure which thread (J3 impressions? This one? Your review?  Pics of your portable gear? dunno...).  Also, love the new avatar...that yokel didn't do you justice.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote:


sluker said:


> Quick question for those who received their G3 arrows: How long was it from the time your order updated to "processing" to the time it actually shipped?


 

 Really depends on when you ordered...I ordered mine in mid Nov. and got it (item shipped) around Christmas.  Earlier orders waited a LOT longer, but recent orders go from processing to shipped very quickly.  "Processing" just is just Robertspeak for "I have your money, now wait until I get this damn thing tested and shipped out with 99 others".


----------



## SoulSyde

Anyone who is interested in this thread and hasn't read Joel's review needs to get over here (http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/538016/review-the-headstage-arrow-he-portable-amplifier) immediately.


----------



## TheDudeNextDoor

I can't wait for mine to arrive, that review just got me even more excited.


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> I finally got around to doing a proper review of the Arrow. Here's the link for anyone interested:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/538016/review-the-headstage-arrow-he-portable-amplifier
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for putting the review in a normal thread, as well.


----------



## Djo77

Just ordered mine : )


----------



## proedros

Terrific piece of review - if interested in buying an arrow , read it ASAP
  
  Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> I finally got around to doing a proper review of the Arrow. Here's the link for anyone interested:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/538016/review-the-headstage-arrow-he-portable-amplifier
> 
> ...


----------



## Phoenyx1

How would you guys say it would pair with a set of SM3s?  What would you recommend (<$300)?


----------



## dfkt

What player are you pairing the SM3 with? The SM3 usually don't need an amp, except you've got a player like the Sony A845 or X1000 that perform really badly with multi-armature IEMs.


----------



## Golden Monkey

The SM3 doesn't really gain anything by amping them, but like dfkt says if your source is lousy it'll help.  I DO use it with my SM3s though because I like the crossfeed and bass boost options.  If I want to travel uber-light though, it's just the Brothers 3, J & SM.


----------



## Redmetal1897

Uh oh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
  Quote: 





cardozo said:


> I have to disagree. *Have you heard any of the Hifiman players*? It is not possible for you to compare this player with a Sansa Fuze, for example. Even J3 loses by a wide margin.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...


----------



## Phoenyx1

I just play it out of my iPhone 4 or iTouch 4th Gen.  Mostly 320 and some FLAC/AIFF.  I hope the Arrow helps, I also have a pair of TMA-1s.


----------



## CARRION FEAST

Mine arrived about a couple of hours ago, first impressions: very good, the size is unbelievable...smaller than expected. So far I've only been playing around with my SR80i's using a 7th gen iPod classic & find that the Arrow really fills out the sound just as well as my Yulong D-100 (the SR80's to me sound great un-amped but really open up with a little amplification) The bass feature is great. Been listening to some Daft Punk, and now some Guns & Roses.......might be listening for a while


----------



## cn11

Just received the upgrade 3G Arrow today, and am having my first listen. I am going to do some comparing back to back with my 1G for a day or so before I send it back. I appreciate that Robert sends out the upgrade unit before he receives the older one so this is possible. 
   
  I did have a quick back and forth with both briefly already, and I think I do hear a slight improvement in treble sparkle. But additionally I believe I'm hearing a tad more depth to the soundstage. It seems every so slightly more spacious. Hiss seems about identical to me between the units using my Pro 900s during quiet musical passages. Of course the bass increases are more noticeable at each setting.


----------



## grokit

Thanks for the impressions cn11, I am hoping my exchange will be here soon as well. Actually I haven't been to the po box in a while, maybe it's here now. Mostly I am glad I didn't cancel, as I have been wondering what the point of upgrading actually is but your impressions are exactly what I suppose I was hoping for.
  It "sounds" like it will be worth it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  On another note, has anybody tried the Arrow with an Edition 8? Hopefully I will be able to compare the two Arrows with a set soon!


----------



## cn11

No prob grokit. So far it does indeed 'sound' like the upgrade is worth it! I just did a little more going back and forth with both Arrows, listening to Radiohead's In Rainbows, and I am confirming what I thought from before. Over lunch hour I was out thinking to myself... 'did I really hear any difference?'... but it is there. It's quite subtle, but the new one is just that slight bit more open sounding, and leaves you with this feeling of a hint of bigger sound. I think this is mostly from the increase in space and stage depth. It's actually a nice discovery hearing that extra openness. Instrument separation is that little bit more deep and noticeable as a result. I'm surprised Robert didn't talk about any gain in stage when he was noting the sonic differences because I do hear that. 
   
  More to come as the 3G burns in.


----------



## Smokhee

I have paired the Arrow with my iphone 4, ipod mini (second generation), and ipod nano (first generation) via LOD.  All sources sound much better in powering my SE530s and especially my HD650s.  I have found that the mini sounds the best to my ears.  The iphone 4 is next best, then the nano.  Both the mini and the nano carry Wolfson DACs.  With the iphone 4, I have to go to "airplane" mode to eliminate interference-- another reason to use my previously dust-gathering mini.
   
  What do you guys think about getting a better portable player?  What would you recommend?  I don't want to shell out more than say $200 and I don't want something too bulky.  I have looked into the Sansa, the sflo2, cowon, etc. on this board and can't really discern what I should do.  There appears to be some serious debate as to how much of an improvement that a "better" source will sound compared to the ipods.  Thoughts?


----------



## rehabitat

The three daps you mentioned are good choices by all accounts. I would select one based on personal preferences regarding features desirable to you such as form factor, ergonomics, storage size and ease of use. Sound quality variations between these highly regarded units is probably minimal.


----------



## grokit

Mine was indeed at the post office, and I will say that I am quite pleased with it at this point. I haven't made any comparisons yet but stay tuned. I just listened to a headphone that I haven't even listened to with the G1 yet but the AD2000 sounds just amazing with the G3 and my iMod/Vcap rig.
   
  On another note, it seemed to arrive a bit under the weather, and was passing through audio but not lighting up and none of the controls were responsive. Robert got back to me via email to address my concerns within the hour. Everything is great now, maybe I had it hooked up wrong the first time somehow or maybe we just had to exorcise the demons, but I just wanted to mention that IME Robert has always been quite responsive to my concerns.
   
  But that's also probably because I don't bug him about silly stuff that he has no control over anyways


----------



## cn11

Awesome Grokit. I saw your pic over at the pictures of your portable rig thread. Let me know if you hear the same slight increase in fullness of the sound, and subtle broadening of the soundstage. Something about the 3G's sound is just that extra bit more full by comparison, by my ears! 
   
  Curious that yours was a bit under the weather. All has not been smooth sailing with mine either. After a few times switching back and forth with my Arrow 1G yesterday, the 3G's sound started cutting out to a washed out, thin effect. But with a little fiddling with the headphone jack, or volume knob, it would come back in. For a while it was very intermittent on keeping the full range sound. So far today it's fine though. Very bizarre. I wonder if it's some loose connections at the front of the board. Robert answered back for me quickly too, but hasn't had any solutions offered just yet. I am not sure what to do with this one at the moment, so I will listen today at work and see how it behaves.


----------



## desmoface

Just ordered mine...Now the wait..Hopefully its smooth sailing..
   
  Steve


----------



## Smokhee

cn11, how do you like your Sony x1060?  Have you compared it to an ipod/iphone with LOD?  I am contemplating an upgrade in my audio player.  I am digging the sound with my ipod mini/arrow 3g/senn 650 but I think I got the upgrade bug now.


----------



## cn11

I do have an iPhone 4, but honestly I haven't done much comparing of it with the Arrow against the Sony X with the Arrow. I will do just that in the next few days and report back. 
   
  When comparing the X with the iPhone 4 straight from the headphone outs, I can tell you the iPhone is brighter with a bit more air in the treble. But the low end isn't as nice compared to the X. The Sony is more warm and mellow in its sound. I prefer the X when just using it as a player without the amp. 
   
  I will give this same comparison a go with the Arrow soon though.


----------



## MrProggie

Too bad Skylab hasn't reviewed the Arrow yet. Is Robert afraid of getting a not-so-good review?
  I am curious to see what this amp is capable of compared to the others on his review list.
   
  Personally I am very satisfied with my Arrow.


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> Too bad Skylab hasn't reviewed the Arrow yet. Is Robert afraid of getting a not-so-good review?
> I am curious to see what this amp is capable of compared to the others on his review list.


 


  Forum drama: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/214588/review-portable-amp-roundup-56-portable-amps-reviewed-and-compared-last-update-12-20-10-added-rsa-sr-71b/3075#post_7199787


----------



## MrProggie

Thanks. That clears up some of the confusion. I've been absent from the board for a while.


----------



## grokit

That _is _dramatic, I had completely missed that.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Lol...wish *I* had.  But god forbid you say something that could be misconstrued as either supporting Robert or saying anything that could be taken as casting Jan in any sort of negative light, and you get pummelled by fanboys and need to beat them away with a stick.


----------



## rehabitat

I thought you handled it well, and I agree that it's best to leave it alone.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Lol, thanks...I refused to get drawn into an internet argument, especially over something I really could care less about, lol.


----------



## maverickronin

Who cares if its a "clone"?  Its not like there's a ton of room for deviation in this kind of circuit design anyway.  Everyone is doing the same thing (amplifying a low voltage audio signal) with their choice of the same commercially available off the shelf parts.


----------



## zappp

The Headstage Arrow HE and the old Lyrix Pro both have crossfeed circuitry that is said to be based on a publication from an Swedish engineer, Ingvar Ohman. I don't know about earlier versions.
   
http://www.headstage.eu/Molt_1994_04_SP12.pdf
http://www.headstage.com/product_info.php?sorting=name-desc&info=10065&XTCsid=883d7bf04e067fccfba573ade567b267


----------



## Golden Monkey

The issue is that supposedly Mr. Meier put in dummy circuitry and the like into his amps, that if copied would reveal that the design was directly copied from his work.  Also, Robert at first denied all of this, and was indeed caught out in lying about stealing/duplicating/"paying homage to"/improving on this design.  The Ohman design is public domain, but Jan is adamant that intellectual property was infringed upon.  In any event, all of that is in the past, and Robert's current works are not in any way infringement or theft.  They are simply a distillation of obsessive tinkering and pursuit of perfection.  And yes, I'm drunk...lol.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote:


golden monkey said:


> Jan is adamant that intellectual property was infringed upon.


 

 I'd still have a rather hard time mustering up the will to give a damn.  I take a rather dim view of "intellectual property" myself.  Did he have an actual patent or something?  I'd think that would have to be a pretty unique amp to merit a patent in this day and age, since AFIK most of the BS is is going on in software patents these days.  They make about as much sense as trying to patent a love song and telling everyone else they can't make love songs any more...


----------



## Smokhee

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> I do have an iPhone 4, but honestly I haven't done much comparing of it with the Arrow against the Sony X with the Arrow. I will do just that in the next few days and report back.
> 
> When comparing the X with the iPhone 4 straight from the headphone outs, I can tell you the iPhone is brighter with a bit more air in the treble. But the low end isn't as nice compared to the X. The Sony is more warm and mellow in its sound. I prefer the X when just using it as a player without the amp.
> 
> I will give this same comparison a go with the Arrow soon though.


 
   Thanks, looking forward to your review!!


----------



## strannik

I got my Arrow some time around last week. Definitely the best thing that has happened to my Shure SE315s. It's not without issues though, two things primarily:
   
  The left ear on the SE315s sometimes gets a subtle yet annoying sizzling sound if the bass boost is turned on. Only the left ear, right one is ok. This has never happened with other portal amps I have. I'm not sure yet if this is the fault of the amp or the Shures (defective left ear?) as it happens a bit randomly. Same volume, same track, same EQ settings when played an hour later wont sizzle, so I'm a bit confused with that for now.
   
  The auto power-off feature is starting to annoy me. I don't like listening to music very loud, and if a track/musical piece has a prolonged "quiet" section in it, the Arrow sometimes decides that the current music is actually background noise and it should save some power and go to sleep. I've tried to play around with impedance or gain switches to avoid this, but no luck so far. Only solution seems to be to keep the volume above a certain level.
   
  Other than that I'm actually quite happy with the Arrow.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





strannik said:


> I got my Arrow some time around last week. Definitely the best thing that has happened to my Shure SE315s. It's not without issues though, two things primarily:
> 
> The left ear on the SE315s sometimes gets a subtle yet annoying sizzling sound if the bass boost is turned on. Only the left ear, right one is ok. This has never happened with other portal amps I have. I'm not sure yet if this is the fault of the amp or the Shures (defective left ear?) as it happens a bit randomly. Same volume, same track, same EQ settings when played an hour later wont sizzle, so I'm a bit confused with that for now.
> 
> ...


 

 RE: the "sizzling sound" ... try to replicate it with multiple and different tracks. Use different amps and headphones to isolate which is the culprit. Everything is fallible about electronics so it wouldn't be a revelation if an Arrow amp actually had an issue, nor would it be surprising if it were the headphone. Troubleshoot it and ... good luck.
   
  As far as the "quiet" music issue with the amp deciding to power off. Hmmmm, that's a bit strange in the context of my own experience. It doesn't matter if the volume is turned up or not, if I plug in a "hot" input to the arrow, be it playing music or not, it turns on (and in this instance, "hot" means, simply, a powered line in to the Arrow. In fact, I can turn the volume all the way down on the Arrow and it will play until it's batteries die. So that's a strange one, ... intriguing as well. 
   
  Hope you get it sorted ... and be sure to bounce these sorts of questions off of Robert at Headstage.com ... despite the rumors, he *will* get back to you ... and, especially if it has to do with a supposed "flaw" in the amp.
   
  And regarding all the ghey drama around Robert and Jan and the formers supposed blunder ... deal with it ... designers go through these things ... (little secret? It's how they and others become bad asses!) ... I'm not keen on the details of the past drama but I'm still fairly sickened by it. I mean, just why do you think all the "slim" amps started being released? I'm pretty sure the Arrow was released before them and short of the competitors sneaking in to Robert's home and rifling through his notes? I really can't see any reason why the (coincidentally similar to the Arrow) jet black, "Slim" amp versions would suddenly be a hot topic (just check the Head-fi.org super-porno(tm) commercial news feed that takes up about 800% of our screen real estate when first loading the forum; sorry. Yes, that was me expressing disappointment. LOL).
   
  But hey. I'm drunk too. So do pardon.
   

   
  Rock it.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Cheers s1rrah!  Here's to Robert!


----------



## caracara08

anyone point me  to where i can find out what version i have? thanks in advance


----------



## Golden Monkey

If you are the original owner, you can check your invoice, or just email Robert and ask him.
   
  ALSO - Headstage is now of Facebook! http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/pages/Headstage/149305338452210


----------



## airwax

I've finally got home and able to see and hold my Arrow. Now using it through the line-out of my D4 Mamba with the Westone 2. The sound became much fuller. I added a level 1 bass boost. This is a very good pairing in my opinion. The Westone 2 suddenly has become very lively. Lows are more extended with better body and added fullness to the mids.
   
  The build quality of the amp is superb. Small size, simple design, and thin. It's great.
   
  I will try to use it with the SM3 and JH13 later. But for now, this just made me want to keep my Westone 2.


----------



## desmoface

Can I ask how long it took you to receive your amp after you placed your order?  I'm anxiously awaiting mine, which I ordered about a week ago.  Thanks.
   
  Steve
  
  Quote: 





airwax said:


> I've finally got home and able to see and hold my Arrow. Now using it through the line-out of my D4 Mamba with the Westone 2. The sound became much fuller. I added a level 1 bass boost. This is a very good pairing in my opinion. The Westone 2 suddenly has become very lively. Lows are more extended with better body and added fullness to the mids.
> 
> The build quality of the amp is superb. Small size, simple design, and thin. It's great.
> 
> I will try to use it with the SM3 and JH13 later. But for now, this just made me want to keep my Westone 2.


----------



## Erieg

I am curious about the wait as well. Before I ordered Robert told me it would ship in a week. I ordered on the 6th and it hasn't shipped yet. I emailed Robert about a possible ETA and he hasn't replied yet. I am really looking forward to getting the amp so I hope it goes out soon!


----------



## airwax

I ordered mine Dec.21st. I believe it got here around 3 weeks ago. I was away for awhile and wasn't able to go home. So it was only yesterday that I got to see it.


----------



## grokit

I've had the G3 Arrow for about 10 days or so, and it's time to send the G1 back after comparing the two for a bit.
   
  This was out of my transportable rig, which consists of an iMod fed into an oversize Vcap dock, using Monster MD Tribute and Ortofon e-Q7 universal IEMs, Audio-Technica AD2000 and Sennheiser HD540 RII open headphones, and Ultrasone Edition 8 closed headphones. For a/b purposes I went back and forth using the same music, sometimes listening to a single song, and sometimes listening to the entire album. The Cowboy Junkies' _Whites off Earth Now_ is well-recorded enough to highlight the strengths of various listening systems, and it is an album that I am familiar with; most importantly I can listen to it repeatedly without growing sick of it.
   
  My settings are typically crossfeed I, with variations in gain and bass boost according to the volume and boost requirements of the headphone. The IEMs definitely liked impedance 0; with the higher-impedance 540s the differences with the impedance settings weren't quite as noticeable but they definitely sounded better with the impedance boosted. The lower-impedance Ed8 and AD2000, like the IEMs, also sound much better to me on the 0 setting. The AD2000 ate up bass boost II on the G3, but surprisingly the 540s did as well so it's pretty clean bass even though there is more of it than on the G1. The Ed8s and the MDs sounded best with limited or no boost, respectively.
   
  Most of the audible differences between the two amps are pretty subtle, with the bass boost being the most noticeable. With my Ed8, I was happy enough with the I setting the G1, and could go to stetting II if I wanted more. With the G3 I hear a bigger difference on the I setting, no need for II. With the MD, the result is the same between the G1 and G3, no need for any boost. With the Ortofons I preferred with the II setting, and I appreciated the extra oomph with those. Overall, bass boost setting I on the G3 sounds close to setting II on the G1. I appreciate the enhanced bass boosting ability, but if there is a single drawback to the G3 compared to the G1 it it a little less finesse when you just want to boost the bass a "tad".
   
  The G3 does have a higher overall gain setting, as my MDs had more headroom on the I setting with the G3 than with the G1. I didn't try with orthos and don't have my K701's anymore so I didn't really compare the gain between the two Arrows at maximum gain with the high setting. My previous testing with the HE-5 and K701 out of the G1 convinced me that the Arrow had some limitations driving the higher current-demanding headphones, but I will try the G3 with the LCD-2 sometime in the relatively near future.
   
  Overall the G3 has a slightly more dynamic, exciting sound. I think that this may have to do with more treble and midrange detail, but also to slightly more forward upper mids. The bass is about the same which is definitely not a bad thing, with the G3 having the improved bass-boosting feature. The G1 is a great amp and I could have been quite happy with it without upgrading, but for me the G3 sounds better overall no doubt about that.
   
  The G1 overall has a delicious, slightly warm and quite smooth sound signature, which the G3 manages to improve upon but without losing these positive characteristics. There is a definite, audible difference in overall sound quality and frequency response between the two models, and that made the $25 upgrade worth it alone. Other notable differences between the two Arrows include even better battery life, a completely automatic on/off switch, and a second headphone jack on the G3.


----------



## Redmetal1897

Did anyone who ordered this in Canada get hit with customs?


----------



## Jupiterknight

@grokit. Excellent information regarding your experience between the Arrow G3 vs.G1. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## cn11

grokit-
  Great impressions. Yours mirror mine very closely regarding the audible differences of the G1 & G3 Arrows. I think the differences are big enough to warrant the upgrade too. I agree about the bass sometimes being a touch too much on +I, and missing that more subtle finesse of the first bass gain on the Gen 1 amp. But that's the only nitpick I can come up with. Perhaps a future Arrow can incorporate a 3 step bass adjustment to still have that finesse at the first setting... or even a continuously adjustable dial like the volume. Now that would be awesome. Did you notice an increase in soundstage width too? When I was doing very attentive A/B'ing between the two I would also notice an increased sense of air and space when going back to the new Arrow. But like you said, each difference is quite subtle. I'm glad the new one maintains the sonic traits of the 1G.


----------



## Anaxilus

I agree a BB setting of .5 would be nice while preserving I and II.  
   
  I'm curious if these impressions of the 1G v. 3G mirror 2G v. 3G.
   
  I'm also curious if hiss/noise is more noticeable on the 3G on Gain 0.


----------



## Golden Monkey

I hear no hiss with any of my gear at gain and imp of 0 or 1 (any combo).  Very minor hiss at gull gain on really high (non-listenable levels) volume.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> grokit-
> Great impressions. Yours mirror mine very closely regarding the audible differences of the G1 & G3 Arrows. I think the differences are big enough to warrant the upgrade too. I agree about the bass sometimes being a touch too much on +I, and missing that more subtle finesse of the first bass gain on the Gen 1 amp. But that's the only nitpick I can come up with. Perhaps a future Arrow can incorporate a 3 step bass adjustment to still have that finesse at the first setting... or even a continuously adjustable dial like the volume. Now that would be awesome. Did you notice an increase in soundstage width too? When I was doing very attentive A/B'ing between the two I would also notice an increased sense of air and space when going back to the new Arrow. But like you said, each difference is quite subtle. I'm glad the new one maintains the sonic traits of the 1G.


 

 Yes, I think that the added high-end detail and more forward upper mids could easily translate into a more airy presentation, and a greater sense of space. Pretty subtle but overall pretty noticeable as well.
   
  And I forgot to add to Robert, great job on improving an already fantastic product!


----------



## strannik

I didn't. You probably won't either, you'll understand why when you get it.
  
  Quote: 





daanish said:


> Did anyone who ordered this in Canada get hit with customs?


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Would you say this amp is the way to go if you'd concider getting a reasonably powerful amp featuring bass boost capabilites in this pricange or lower? I read this review and I was particularly impressed by the graph showing frequency response curve how the bass boost settings look like and in my eyes they look near optimal curves if you want stronger bass without a lot of midrange bleed like for example the lowerend FiiO amps suffer from. Also would it be suitable for low impedance headphones? I don't need one currently but it wouldn't hurt knowing what to look for in case the time comes when I really will need one. I actually don't need it to be portable but this one doesn't look to offer anything less than a fullsized one in same price class anyway.


----------



## dizzyraider

Everything that you mentioned are pretty accurate in describing the Arrow amp. It is powerful enough to drive the HD650 (300ohms) with ease and the bass boost is very well implemented. The bass boost sounds very clean and does not distort other frequencies. Low impedance iem/cans pairs very well with the Arrow as well. Its current impedance settings is actually quite good (0/20/65), since the 0 won't effect the low sensitive iem's frequency response while maintaining the quietness (unless you go way out of your way to look for some slight noise...) and 20 is just high enough to filter out some noise and low enough to not affect sound. Aside from the power, its versatility is what really makes it shine. It will work very well from IEMs to many of the less efficient cans


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Yea driving 300 ohm cans is perfectly enough, don't need 600 ohm capabilities. I also very strongly agree whit the guy who wrote the review I linked in my previous post about an amp should be as neutral as possible and stay as true to the original signal as possible and 12HE seems to do that (ofc without the bassboost enabled). I don't want a permanent coloration added when plugging a headphone to it like was the case with FiiO E5 and Gary's PA2V2 (which I basicly sold it for) because not all headphones will play nicely with it and I rather manually tweak EQ instead and add my own "coloration" based on how I think the particular headphone needs to be tweaked like if necessary. FiiO E5 is so cheap so I haven't bothered selling it but I never use it because it mostly only sounds worse together with my already warm sounding headphones and I would only use it with my computer and I would just like to have an amp I can have recharging all the time so won't need to plug/unplug and FiiO E5 made a very audible hiss/noise when it was recharging and playing at normal listening volumes (while it didn't if I didn't let it recharge). I hope this amp wouldn't make the same noise if constantly let the usb cord be plugged to the comp? Optimally I'd prefer to have a AC/DC input on the amp but if it won't make any noise while recharging from USB port then that's ok too.


----------



## Redmetal1897

Quote: 





strannik said:


> I didn't. You probably won't either, you'll understand why when you get it.


 


  Thanks!


----------



## dizzyraider

I'm not sure if there is much noise when listening and charging at the same time, but from my experience is that you won't need to keep them plugged in all the time. The battery life last FOREVER from a good 2 hour charge using your typical USB wall charger. BTW on a side note, it is found that it is not healthy for the battery to be kept at full capacity for long periods if not used, such as having it constantly plugged in while at fully charged state. So it is probably better to just recharge it daily if you think the battery needs to be recharged.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





dizzyraider said:


> I'm not sure if there is much noise when listening and charging at the same time, but from my experience is that you won't need to keep them plugged in all the time. The battery life last FOREVER from a good 2 hour charge using your typical USB wall charger. BTW on a side note, it is found that it is not healthy for the battery to be kept at full capacity for long periods if not used, such as having it constantly plugged in while at fully charged state. So it is probably better to just recharge it daily if you think the battery needs to be recharged.


 

 Yes I know it's not healthy for the battery life but that's not an issue for me as I would only use it with the desktop computer (not laptop) anyway so it doesn't matter if it works and the rare times I might use it for portable use then a 2hr lasting battery would be sufficient already. I discussed about this with Gary when buying his PA2V2 and he said it would be ok to let it recharge all the time and he does that himself too. I'm just too lazy to mind the recharging bit and I'd hate to lose sound while I'm gaming online so I just want it to work by itself.


----------



## desmoface

[size=small]*Dear Customer , *[/size]

 [size=small]The status of your order changed.[/size]

 [size=small]New status:[/size][size=small] [/size][size=small]*Arrow G3 shipped*[/size][size=small] [/size]
 [size=small]For questions, feel free to anwser to this mail.[/size]
   
  Steve


----------



## Erieg

I received the same email. I am a very happy guy.
  
  Quote: 





desmoface said:


> [size=small]*Dear Customer , *[/size]
> 
> [size=small]The status of your order changed.[/size]
> 
> ...


----------



## shotgunshane

How is the low volume listening with IEM's on the arrow? Do you have much control/range for low volume listening? I've been leaning towards getting the pico slim but this just sounds like it would be a much more fun amp to own with the quality bass boost options. And I think someone who compared g1 to g3 said their was slightly more forward treble presentation in g3, which interests me.


----------



## grokit

That's what is so great about the gain settings, that it does give you fine control of the volume levels for IEMs. The impedance setting can have an impact in this respect as well.


----------



## Andyzz

Can anyone plz compare this with ibasso amps like pb1,d10,d12, etc

Edit: nvm i ordered it


----------



## mangamonster

Hey, everyone. I've uploaded a hands on video review of the *Headstage Arrow 12HE 3G* for your viewing pleasure.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

   
   
*Link*: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blkl4mOaqKI
   
  -dave


----------



## caracara08

very nice review


----------



## wikidfps

Two questions. I have a pair of Ultrasone Pro 900 and a Sansa clip+. I bought a Headstage Arrow as well but i't hasn't arrived yet.
   
  The sansa clip does not have line-out, is it worth it to buy a new player with line-out?
  And what kind of cable do i need to buy to use the arrow with my Sansa and pro 900?  I'm fairly new to these things. 
   
  Thanks


----------



## Erieg

Does anyone know the method the orders are sent to the states?  Its been a a couple of weeks and I am getting anxious.


----------



## sluker

I have both the clip+ and the arrow. This is not an ideal set-up in my mind as you are double amping. While the clip+ is a solid HO it is still just that, but to connect it you just need a mini to mini and you are set.
  As far as players with a line out go your options are many, depending on budget, UI preference, and music format. Search this site for DAP's such as the sflo2 (my current favorite) or the Fuze (if you like sansa) Sony, Hi-fi man 601/2 or the many ipod options available.
  Quote: 





wikidfps said:


> Two questions. I have a pair of Ultrasone Pro 900 and a Sansa clip+. I bought a Headstage Arrow as well but i't hasn't arrived yet.
> 
> The sansa clip does not have line-out, is it worth it to buy a new player with line-out?
> And what kind of cable do i need to buy to use the arrow with my Sansa and pro 900?  I'm fairly new to these things.
> ...


----------



## audiogamma

Ha, I have been one of your viewers for awhile. Thanks Dave!


----------



## mangamonster

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> very nice review


 


  I appreciate that!

  
  Quote: 





audiogamma said:


> Ha, I have been one of your viewers for awhile. Thanks Dave!


 

 Thanks, it's been quite a ride since I started the reviews early last year. Also, it's nice to hear that you have been following my channel!! I have about 4 more reviews scheduled so it's been busy. I'll be reviewing a t-amp, some Koss cheapies (but goodies), Audioengine's N22 desktop/headphone amplifier and some other goods lined up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -dave


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Excellent review, I know I must get this amp whenever the time comes when I will need one.


----------



## wikidfps

Quote: 





sluker said:


> I have both the clip+ and the arrow. This is not an ideal set-up in my mind as you are double amping. While the clip+ is a solid HO it is still just that, but to connect it you just need a mini to mini and you are set.
> As far as players with a line out go your options are many, depending on budget, UI preference, and music format. Search this site for DAP's such as the sflo2 (my current favorite) or the Fuze (if you like sansa) Sony, Hi-fi man 601/2 or the many ipod options available.


 
   

  Thanks for your help. Money is not an issue atm, I want to play FLAC files, UI is not an issue. I would like a player thats not to big, preferably same size like the arrow and not to thick.
  Which would you suggest with that in mind.
   
  I appreciate your help.


----------



## sluker

Quote: 





wikidfps said:


> Thanks for your help. Money is not an issue atm, I want to play FLAC files, UI is not an issue. I would like a player thats not to big, preferably same size like the arrow and not to thick.
> Which would you suggest with that in mind.
> 
> I appreciate your help.


 
   
  For FLAC support, thin and not too big I would say in order of sound quality:

 Sflo2
 HM 601/2 (strictly based on other's comments the sound is better than sflo2, but it is twice as thick with huge built in gain)
 Ipod 5.5 rockboxed 
 ipod 6g (but the rockbox software is not stable)
 ipod nano 1&2g Rockboxed (not much capacity but I love the slim look with my nano).
  By the way you can also convert your FLAC library to ALAC and store it on the 6G
  I also feel obligated to mention that MP$ Nation (the seller of Sflo2) are a pain to deal with.
  I hope that helps


----------



## debitsohn

cowon j3.


----------



## grokit

Don't for get the iPod Mini, it's rockbox-able as well. But if you are Apple-averse there seem to be less complaints about the Sflo2's firmware lately, it's a great match form-factor wise and the SQ is reportedly excellent. The J3 seems like a good option as well. Not sure about gapless support, you may want to check into that for all of these options if that's important to you.


----------



## Erieg

[size=medium]Does anyone know what method off shipping Rob uses?​[/size]


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





sluker said:


> For FLAC support, thin and not too big I would say in order of sound quality:
> 
> Sflo2
> HM 601/2 (strictly based on other's comments the sound is better than sflo2, but it is twice as thick with huge built in gain)
> ...


 

 The upcoming Fiio X3 is another possibilty, should go great w/ the Arrow.  Almost anything goes great w/ the Arrow actually.


----------



## proedros

+1
  
  Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> cowon j3.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





erieg said:


> Does anyone know the method the orders are sent to the states?  Its been a a couple of weeks and I am getting anxious.


 


 It is perfectly normal for there to be varying wait times with standard mail as it depends on many variables. I have personally waited from 6 days (shortest) to a month (longest) for int'l items sent by mail....even from the U.S. to Canada


----------



## Erieg

LOL.. I blame Canada for that. True story, I FedEx'd a package to our office in Toronto and it sat in at the FedEx facility for 3 days because customs needed to determine the country of origin of the contents. They were legal documents.


----------



## desmoface

Received a little something today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











   
   
  Steve
   
  Edit:  Just listened to "The Beds Too Big," by The Police, which has some pretty good, intricate instrumentation, particularly percussion - With the RE0's and the bass boost set to 2, it was very, very nice.


----------



## desmoface

Ok, I've been unable to find the manual for the Arrow..does anyone know what the deal is with the led as far as charging goes? When I first received the unit I plugged it in and it glowed green...lastnight the battery died while listening, so I plugged into the puter to charge and no light at all...it's charging but no light...also, does anyone know the specs for the charging plug?  I want to pick up a charger...I also notice that my cell-phone battery charger has the same sized mini-usb plug as the arrow, but I don't know what the specs are for the arrow...anyone know? Also, is there something that indicates that it's fully charged?   Thanks in advance.
   
  Steve


----------



## strannik

The light from personal observations:
   
  Red: playing
  Green: charging
  Yellow: charging and playing
   
  If usb is plugged in and the light is not lit: unplug and plug back in the mini-usb cable. The light should turn on.
   
  It's supposed to blink when battery is low, though I've never had mine at that point.


----------



## desmoface

Ok, so I just tried it on my puter at work, and when I plug the arrow in, I'm just getting a red light (because I just turned off the source), when I turn the ipod (source unit) on, I just get the red, no yellow or green.  I'll see if the light goes out again after it sits for a minute. 
   
  Edit:  9:00am - No light at all while plugged into the usb port of the puter...I wonder if maybe the green light burned out? 
   
  Edit:  9:30am -  Out of the blue, the red light just turned on by itself, stayed on for a minute and went out - All while still plugged into the usb port of the puter.
   
  Steve


----------



## dragonfyra

I think the battery on your arrow is dying, it happened to my 1G before, got it replaced with Robert (he's a good man).  
   
  He even got me a newer generation, no cost.


----------



## desmoface

I sure hope it's something as simple as that.  Did your exhibit similar characteristics?
   
  Steve


----------



## desmoface

Ok, it was the usb cable, I tried another and all is well in the world 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Steve


----------



## grokit

The Arrow offers the simplest "unboxing" in the Head-fi world, yet it never gets old for me


----------



## dragonfyra

Quote: 





desmoface said:


> Ok, it was the usb cable, I tried another and all is well in the world
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ahh, good to know!
   
  Having had the 1G and now the 2G for a little while, if I had to pick on something it would still be the volume imbalance at low volumes (basically maximum for me already).  With any in ears that I use (westone 3, es-5's), I'd have to turn impedance at 1 to get some balance.
   
  Everything else about it is perrfect.


----------



## rave-87

hi !  is there anybody know about , when this great amp will be sold on Amazon?


----------



## maverickronin

Probably never.  The guy just sells them himself.


----------



## Leander7777

Most likely never, but Robert said that soon he'll also be producing them, directly, in America, which would make shipping and handeling in North America far less cumbersome.


----------



## Audiophile1811

desmoface How long did it take to ship?
   Does anybody know if Rob has decreased the shipping time? His site says, "will ship in 2-3 weeks."
  I plan on ordering one soon so I'd like to know if anyone's satisfied with the shipping time. 
  Thanks guys.


----------



## Erieg

I ordered on 2/2 and and they showed up 3/8. Considering the delivery time was half of that I am pretty OK with the wait. I can tell you one thing, exactly 4 minutes after I ripped the package open, plugged my IEMs in and hit play I completely forgot about the wait.


----------



## strannik

You can expect to wait around one month from the date that you ordered for them to ship. Once they are marked as shipped, it will take a week or two for them to arrive, depending on where you are in the world of course.
  
  Quote: 





audiophile1811 said:


> desmoface How long did it take to ship?
> Does anybody know if Rob has decreased the shipping time? His site says, "will ship in 2-3 weeks."
> I plan on ordering one soon so I'd like to know if anyone's satisfied with the shipping time.
> Thanks guys.


----------



## desmoface

I think 2-3 weeks is a bit optimistic, it took around 1.5 months...I was ok with that, though.
   
  Steve

  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Audiophile1811* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> desmoface How long did it take to ship?
> ...


----------



## desmoface

I think 2-3 weeks is a bit optimistic, it took around 4-6 weeks, if my memory serve's me...I was ok with that, though.
   
  Steve

  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Audiophile1811* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> desmoface How long did it take to ship?
> ...


----------



## Audiophile1811

What about the shipping price? The Arrow is manufactured in Germany so I expect it to be a bit steep.  
  Thanks


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





audiophile1811 said:


> What about the shipping price? The Arrow is manufactured in Germany so I expect it to be a bit steep.
> Thanks


 

 I think the price is worldwide shipping included if I recall correctly?


----------



## grokit

Robert just ships the Arrows via regular airmail since the package is so lightweight it qualifies. It does keep the cost down, but that is why it can take a couple of weeks (or longer) to arrive.


----------



## dizzyraider

Yes, the price of the Arrow includes shipping to anywhere in the world, BUT he will only ship using standard air mail to keep the shipping cost reasonable (Robert has mentioned that any type of priority/registered mail costs around $40 and up). From my 3 separate shipments from Robert, once Robert ships it, it take any where between 1 to 2 weeks to arrive in the US.


----------



## ansmi

Hey Guys I'm worreid where my amp goes...
  I got the notice on Feb 8th that my amp is shipped but it has not arrived till now.
  I send to info@headphonia.com three times already but Rob still didn't reply
  is there anyway that I can contact him? (other emails, phones?)
   
  UGH I WANT TO GET MY AMP SO BADLY, 
  HOPE IT DIDN"T GET LOST OR SOMETHING 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I live in NYC by the way...


----------



## Blasto_Brandino

i just pulled the trigger last night, got the order processing email an hour ago. now i wait.....
 Does he ship in an envelope or a box?


----------



## FuzzyDunlop

I've just had an email exchange with Robert and its a three week wait at the moment but, I'm still ordering instead of getting a D6/D12 as 75% of my listening is from my ipod/phone so a DAC isn't a huge need but for when I need one what DAC pairs well with the Arrow?


----------



## sunwolf

Mine arrived a few weeks ago, but I didn't get around to trying it until now.

It sounds great, but a small problem... I am listening to music and the amp will just shut off. I'm not sure if it's because of the battery, or something with the auto-power off detection.

When playing while plugged in it seems to last longer, and when it shut off it just turned back on again after 5 seconds.

When playing unplugged I had to disconnect the phones for a minute and reconnect them to turn it on again.

Battery problem? I left it plugged in for a whole day to charge it, but there is no light to indicate if it's charging or not.

BTW did you guys get the DAC cable with it? That seems completely removed from the website now.... :blink:


----------



## sunwolf

desmoface said:


> Ok, I've been unable to find the manual for the Arrow..does anyone know what the deal is with the led as far as charging goes? When I first received the unit I plugged it in and it glowed green...lastnight the battery died while listening, so I plugged into the puter to charge and no light at all...it's charging but no light...also, does anyone know the specs for the charging plug?  I want to pick up a charger...I also notice that my cell-phone battery charger has the same sized mini-usb plug as the arrow, but I don't know what the specs are for the arrow...anyone know? Also, is there something that indicates that it's fully charged?   Thanks in advance.
> 
> Steve



Hmm I had the same experience....

But I tried different USB ports, USB cables, and computers and nothing seems to change.

playing: red
playing + plugged in: red
plugged in: nothing


----------



## strannik

I got the same problem. You are playing music too quietly, the Arrow seems to treat low volume music for hiss and turns off to save power.
   
  Turn up the volume on your source, if it bothers you that it's too loud, use the volume wheel on the Arrow to turn it down. That should prevent the Arrow from turning off.
  
  Quote: 





sunwolf said:


> It sounds great, but a small problem... I am listening to music and the amp will just shut off. I'm not sure if it's because of the battery, or something with the auto-power off detection.
> 
> When playing while plugged in it seems to last longer, and when it shut off it just turned back on again after 5 seconds.
> 
> ...


----------



## soundbear

I currently have a ibasso t3 which as I've written in previous threads, I am not impressed with when using with the sunrise xcape.  I have heard rave reviews, particularly from annalilus about the dba with the arrow.  I have dbas on the way, sometime they will get here.... 
   Could anyone compare the arrow with the t3?   I definately want the bass boost and realize that will be a huge improvement), but my main question is how much better in sound quality is it over the t3 and also the ipod touch(through lod, of course).


----------



## airwax

Quote: 





soundbear said:


> I currently have a ibasso t3 which as I've written in previous threads, I am not impressed with when using with the sunrise xcape.  I have heard rave reviews, particularly from annalilus about the dba with the arrow.  I have dbas on the way, sometime they will get here....
> Could anyone compare the arrow with the t3?   I definately want the bass boost and realize that will be a huge improvement), but my main question is how much better in sound quality is it over the t3 and also the ipod touch(through lod, of course).


 

 I could say the Arrow is better than the T3 in driving IEMs and high-impedance cans. It adds more body to the music. A fuller, transparent sound than the T3. I could not quantify the difference really. But as you know, sound quality is subjective, and improvements is really minimal.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





soundbear said:


> I have heard rave reviews, particularly from *annalilus *about the dba with the arrow.


 

 Lol, that's a new one.


----------



## soundbear

I have heard rave reviews, particularly from *annalilus* about the dba with the arrow. 
   
  Hope I don't get banned for that, but if I do, put me on the island that, anaxilus ,,,  , , (who is annalilus's brother)  was banished with my dba's and arrow. 
  Thanks for the feedback airwax, from what you said it sounds like I would notice a difference apart from the bass boost, so hopefully annalilus's brother will help with the money for me to get that arrow.   In an email to me  Robert G. said that the new arrow as compared to annalilus's brothers antique G1 "is even more clean as it doesn't have any output resistors."


----------



## Pitch Black

Anybody used the Arrow with the iphone?
  I'm on a GSM network, a little bit worried about interference.
   
  Thanx guys!


----------



## FuzzyDunlop

I've stopped procrastinating over the Arrow and the D6/12  and just ordered (three week delivery)
   
  In case anyone's interested the DAC cable will be available "soon" (which in Robert speak i'm guessing could be anytime this decade) and the DAC stick is being redesigned (smaller)


----------



## sunwolf

OK I figured out, the volume was too low from the source, I need to turn it up to stop the amp automatically shutting off.

Although the LEDs are not working, it seems to be charged fine.

Impressed with the sound.


----------



## grokit

If it appears the setting aren't making an audible difference either double-check that you have everything plugged in (and out) right.


----------



## dragonfyra

I sometimes use my iphone4 with my arrow, the interference is bad, it was a little bit better with my iphone 3G.  Usually I'd turn it to airplane mode, or suffer everytime a sms or call comes in.  It's really noisy.
  Quote: 





pitch black said:


> Anybody used the Arrow with the iphone?
> I'm on a GSM network, a little bit worried about interference.
> 
> Thanx guys!


----------



## FuzzyDunlop

What kind of network was it 3G, was it a constant problem or only when the phone was searching for a signal or receiving a sms/email/call
  Quote: 





dragonfyra said:


> I sometimes use my iphone4 with my arrow, the interference is bad, it was a little bit better with my iphone 3G.  Usually I'd turn it to airplane mode, or suffer everytime a sms or call comes in.  It's really noisy.


----------



## dannytang

I don't use my Arrow with my iPhone, but I do use my iPod touch with the Arrow and have noticed plenty of interference. Robert acknowledges the problem and recommends turning off the Wi-Fi on the iPod touch. I just turn on Airplane mode to make sure all the antennas are turned off.


----------



## FuzzyDunlop

I'm getting concerned now as probably about 50% of my listening with the Arrow (when it comes) will be with the Iphone 4 and it won't be an option to turn on Airplane Mode nor really to turn of wi fi as that jeeps my data charges down


----------



## dural

iphone is an attractive device and also has been on my potential buy list, but one of the reasons I chose ipod touch4 instead of iphone4 was that I didn't want to put a cell phone WITH AN AMP on my cheek . Well, I also hear noise when wi-fi is on, but fortunately in a sense, I seldom do other things with ipod and keep the antennas off most of the time. Separating mp3player from cell phone might be good sometimes.
   
   
  Off the issure of 'interference'. Can anyone give some technical or objective description on 'what Arrow does' other than just 'wow'? Without Arrow, music from ipod becomes dull and tasteless, regardless of the genre or beat of the song. Arrow sure gives life to music. But 'Arrow adds life' is so obscure an expression that I doubt if it would deliver any message to others who never heard of it.
   
   
  At 0 settings, what do you think Arrow changes? Bass? highs? soundstage? or instruments separation? IMHO, none, significantly. Rather, the words I find fit for describing Arrow are vague ones such as resonance, texture, sentiment, as well as 'life', which will hardly help to the unexperienced. What would you say?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dural said:


> At 0 settings, what do you think Arrow changes? Bass? highs? soundstage? or instruments separation? IMHO, none, significantly. Rather, the words I find fit for describing Arrow are vague ones such as resonance, texture, sentiment, as well as 'life', which will hardly help to the unexperienced. What would you say?


 

 I would say that without its enhanced settings engaged the Arrow gives you clean, uncolored amplification of your player's original sound. Whether your system will benefit from that or not is largely dependent on the headphone or IEM you plan on using, as some will improve more with the additional power than others. Look for increased dynamics, more clarity, better soundstage (more air/separation/space), better musicality, and of course more room on the volume dial. If you haven't already you may want to upgrade your file codec as well to improve the source being amplified but the main thing is the headphone/IEM.


----------



## dural

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I would say that without its enhanced settings engaged the Arrow gives you clean, uncolored amplification of your player's original sound. Whether your system will benefit from that or not is largely dependent on the headphone or IEM you plan on using, as some will improve more with the additional power than others. Look for increased dynamics, more clarity, better soundstage (more air/separation/space), better musicality, and of course more room on the volume dial. If you haven't already you may want to upgrade your file codec as well to improve the source being amplified but the main thing is the headphone/IEM.


 

 Thanks for your concern and explanation. For now, two main ear/headphones I'm currently using are pk1 and ath-a2000x, which I feel are good, not to say top of the line. Music files are mostly 320k or above. So, my trouble was not that I couldn't feel the difference, but that I couldn't put that into words. The terms you wrote there (increased dynamics ~ room on the volum dial) help a lot  They will describe Arrow effect well.
   
  "Transparant" seems to be the representative adjective when talking about Arrow and I also feel so. Then some guy asked me, "If the amp does not have its own color, is it just a volum raiser?" I knew it isn't, but I could not explain.


----------



## wuwhere

So I listened again to my Arrow 1G after a few months. This time my source is an Oppo BDP-95. Before, I only listened to it through a portable iBasso D10 DAC/amp before. Listening through my UE10Pro (not TF-10),  the first thing I noticed is the amount of bass at Bass I. Listening to Flim & The BB's Tricycle,  it has some pretty good slam and dynamics. I'm impressed with what it can do. For a small portable amp, its bass is amazing. It benefits from a good source.
   
  For comparison, it loses to my Sophia Electric Baby Tube amp with HE-6. It can only do so much.


----------



## Smokhee

Quote: 





dural said:


> iphone is an attractive device and also has been on my potential buy list, but one of the reasons I chose ipod touch4 instead of iphone4 was that I didn't want to put a cell phone WITH AN AMP on my cheek . Well, I also hear noise when wi-fi is on, but fortunately in a sense, I seldom do other things with ipod and keep the antennas off most of the time. Separating mp3player from cell phone might be good sometimes.
> 
> 
> Off the issure of 'interference'. Can anyone give some technical or objective description on 'what Arrow does' other than just 'wow'? Without Arrow, music from ipod becomes dull and tasteless, regardless of the genre or beat of the song. Arrow sure gives life to music. But 'Arrow adds life' is so obscure an expression that I doubt if it would deliver any message to others who never heard of it.
> ...


 


   I have now compared multiple sources with the Fiio LOD including iphone 4, ipod mini (second generation), and the ipod nano-- 3 different generations.  The ipod mini (which has a Wolfson DAC) is clearly better than the iphone 4 in sound quality to me.  I replaced the battery in it with a kit from ebay, and now I can listen to all my music without worrying about turning on airplane mode. You can probably buy a mini dirt cheap because most people don't bother to replace the battery-- which can be done for less than $10 with a kit from ebay.  Of course there are other MP3 players out there like the Sansa that you can pick up for $40.  Of course you can argue that you don't want to carry two things, but if you band or velcro your mp3 player to the arrow, it's basically like carrying one thing.


----------



## ddr

i haven't been updated with this thread for a while...

but did Rob increase the price on this thing a while ago?

i remember i was trying to save up for the DAC cable + the amp and it totaled to about $300...

now just the amp is $300. i guess it's really popular


----------



## MorbidToaster

Someone really...REALLY needs to sell me one. lol


----------



## dural

Headphonia forums has been dead but it seems Rob's updating his main homepage where it is selling Arrow 4G now.
  Reading features, I notice two points:
   
  • Tight Bass Boost (0dB, 3dB, 9dB)
 • Treble Boost Switch _New!_
  
  I remember Rob asked the users if the bass boost lv2 is too much. Public opinion was on the positive maybe? And Treble booster is definitely a whole new thing. I've never seen any electronic gadget changing this quick according to customers' taste.
   
   
  Below is a picture showing how I made my 'brick'.


----------



## Anaxilus

I like the new increments.  I often find myself wanting something between '0' and 'I'.  I never use 'II'.  If treble boost can be as clean as the BB I'll be mightily impressed.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I'm looking to do almost this same thing. Instead of a touch I'll be pairing it with a Nano 5G, and the new FiiO L9 LOD.
   
  Razor thin portable setup. I'm excited.
  Quote: 





dural said:


> Headphonia forums has been dead but it seems Rob's updating his main homepage where it is selling Arrow 4G now.
> Reading features, I notice two features:
> 
> • Tight Bass Boost (0dB, 3dB, 9dB)
> ...


----------



## FuzzyDunlop

Damn, never saw that - I ordered the 3g on Friday, I'm guessing (hoping) I'll get the 4g instead
  
  Quote: 





ddr said:


> i haven't been updated with this thread for a while...
> 
> but did Rob increase the price on this thing a while ago?
> 
> ...


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





fuzzydunlop said:


> Damn, never saw that - I ordered the 3g on Friday, I'm guessing (hoping) I'll get the 4g instead


 

 If you want the 4G you better get a hold of Rob. The 4G is listed to maybe start shipping in June so Id bet you will get the 3G.


----------



## FuzzyDunlop

Can you link to the page where it say's June as the websites (eu and .com) are a mess - will mail Rob in the meantime and update with any answer
  Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> If you want the 4G you better get a hold of Rob. The 4G is listed to maybe start shipping in June so Id bet you will get the 3G.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





fuzzydunlop said:


> Can you link to the page where it say's June as the websites (eu and .com) are a mess - will mail Rob in the meantime and update with any answer


 

 http://www.headphonia.com/The-Arrow-Amp/Preorder-of-Headstage-Arrow-12HE-4G::10138.html
   
  It is the heaphonia website and the arrow product page. Says the same as yesterday.


----------



## Somnambulist

So what's the difference in the bass boost between this and the 3G version?


----------



## zestytesty

4g ? I just got the 3g .
  On a side note I ordered Dec 25 and received Feb 15. Using it with senn hd 650 , Beyerdynamic dt 770 and Grado sr80i , fantastic amp so far.


----------



## FuzzyDunlop

Just received a reply from Rob (i'll be getting the G3) he describes the difference between the two as 
   
  The G4 will have lower bass boost, a treble boost switch instead of the impedance switch and a slightly lower gain setting (better for IEMs). Its not a better amp…just a little different that I guess will suit most listeners better


----------



## MorbidToaster

Sounds like I'd much prefer the 3G. Guess I know what to buy. 
  Quote: 





fuzzydunlop said:


> Just received a reply from Rob (i'll be getting the G3) he describes the difference between the two as
> 
> The G4 will have lower bass boost, a treble boost switch instead of the impedance switch and a slightly lower gain setting (better for IEMs). Its not a better amp…just a little different that I guess will suit most listeners better


----------



## Anaxilus

No impedance switch?  Hmm....maybe I should upgrade to a 3G instead.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> No impedance switch?  Hmm....maybe I should upgrade to a 3G instead.




   
  It sounds like he just renamed it the treble switch...


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, that's what I was wondering.


----------



## Audiophile1811

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Do you think that Rob may have changed it from an impedance switch to an actual treble switch?
  I don't think he would just rename it considering how much people didn't like the impedance switch.
  Hopefully it's a useful feature that boosts the treble like the bass boost. I think I'll ask him and tell you what he says.
  Thanks.


----------



## MorbidToaster

If it's a true Treble switch, paired with the Bass switch the 4G is looking better and better for people that want to EQ, but don't want to fiddle with it.
  
  Quote: 





audiophile1811 said:


> Do you think that Rob may have changed it from an impedance switch to an actual treble switch?
> I don't think he would just rename it considering how much people didn't like the impedance switch.
> Hopefully it's a useful feature that boosts the treble like the bass boost. I think I'll ask him and tell you what he says.
> Thanks.


----------



## aLm0sT

Just received the Headstage Arrow 3G today.
   
  I expected it to be small, but not THAT small! It's very thin and stacks up nicely with an iPhone 4/iPod touch without feeling bulky when carrying in a jeans pocket.
  I haven't had a chance to listen to the amp for a longer period yet but I'm already in love with the bass boost!


----------



## fmzip

This amp looks nice!
   
  Forgive my ignorance, where do you get the mini Ipod cable to pair with the Amp?


----------



## Audiophile1811

Quote: 





fmzip said:


> Forgive my ignorance, where do you get the mini Ipod cable to pair with the Amp?


 

 Don't worry about it. Try AlO Audio. They have a large selection of high-end iPod cables.
   
  http://www.aloaudio.com/
  http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_8


----------



## MorbidToaster

FiiO has some cheap offerings. I'd look there depending on your budget
  Quote: 





audiophile1811 said:


> Don't worry about it. Try AlO Audio. They have a large selection of high-end iPod cables.
> 
> http://www.aloaudio.com/
> http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_8


----------



## Leander7777

I'm German and had a pretty extensive conversation with Robert. Perhaps, I can elaborate on what has been already expressed on this forum. He told me that bass boost II will be like the current bass boost I and bass boost I will add warmth to the sound and not really add any bass. I was also told that the treble boost switch, will add treble unlike the impedance switch which gets rid of hiss but seems to impact treble extension. Gain settings will also be slightly altered, but he didn't tell me by how much.


----------



## Somnambulist

Hmm. Seems like the 3G would be more to my liking. I wasn't planning on buying one immediately though, drats. What to do...


----------



## fmzip

Geez...........those are crazy prices!
   
  Looking at FiiO, thanks!
   
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003G8GZV6/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003UCESP8&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=05Z93JQ5Q7BPF6EVTJB0
  Quote: 





audiophile1811 said:


> Don't worry about it. Try AlO Audio. They have a large selection of high-end iPod cables.
> 
> http://www.aloaudio.com/
> http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_8


----------



## MorbidToaster

L1 was my iLOD. Watch out for the L8 comeing soon. Low profile LOD. Really nice.
  
  Quote: 





fmzip said:


> Geez...........those are crazy prices!
> 
> Looking at FiiO, thanks!
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003G8GZV6/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003UCESP8&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=05Z93JQ5Q7BPF6EVTJB0


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





somnambulist said:


> Hmm. Seems like the 3G would be more to my liking. I wasn't planning on buying one immediately though, drats. What to do...


 


  I wouldn't get too carried away with wondering about 2nd gen vs 3rd gen ... etc ... not to diminish the published differences but more so to say ...
   
  I'm sure that the builder has a point with his comments but I think he's speaking in a very subtle sense. IE > 2nd gen or 3rd gen is going to sound equally good and if you happen to be in the most perfect of hyper critical listening environments? And should you have a 2nd and 3rd gen Arrow amp on hand? Well, then yes ... you may detect subtle differences but in so far as practical use? They will perform the same. I think that's what I'm gett'n at, anyway. 
   
  I think it's important to say this as the particular builder _will _change things regularly (which I think is awesome) and it gives the impression more so of a significant build change as opposed to what it actually is, ... which is, sort of an ongoing "dialogue of development" ... or, a published "tweak" ... etc. ... I mean, really ... I'd pay/subscribe if it meant my own Arrow could be updated (selectively, even). I mean, while I slept and all, like  a Steam game or something. LOL. But for now the 2nd gen is just peachy. Not interested in an upgrade at this point if it means mailing it back to G and all. 
   
  rock.
   
  .j


----------



## Somnambulist

I'll have the chance to listen to a 3G one this weekend at the UK meet. Wasn't the 3G's bass boost II like 11db or something, where as II on the 4G is 9db? I'm probably not going to notice that much of a difference being truthful, and as such whatever Arrow I'd end up getting will be great. I should probably try and listen to a bunch of the portables this weekend, but my 'ideal' future set up of a high capacity iPod Touch and AlgoRhythm Solo (also at the meet! <3) means that the Arrow's ability and dimensions seem perfect.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





somnambulist said:


> I'll have the chance to listen to a 3G one this weekend at the UK meet. Wasn't the 3G's bass boost II like 11db or something, where as II on the 4G is 9db? I'm probably not going to notice that much of a difference being truthful, and as such whatever Arrow I'd end up getting will be great. I should probably try and listen to a bunch of the portables this weekend, but my 'ideal' future set up of a high capacity iPod Touch and AlgoRhythm Solo (also at the meet! <3) means that the Arrow's ability and dimensions seem perfect.


 

 I'd be more interested in any improvement in the treble or transparency w/ the 3G myself.


----------



## Somnambulist

Well, maybe I'll find out come June. Not sure what to treat myself for on my birthday yet!


----------



## Audiophile1811

Quote: 





somnambulist said:


> Well, maybe I'll find out come June. Not sure what to treat myself for on my birthday yet!


 


  When is it?


----------



## aLm0sT

First impressions:
   
  After listening to the Arrow for a couple hours, I think I fell in love with it.
  The bass is nice and tight on bass bosst I. Bass boost II is a bit much for my liking.
  Compared to my Mk II, the Arrow is more of what I would call "straight forward". It has warmer touch to it whereas the Mk II sounds kinda dark and cold. When switching back and forth between the amps, the most apparent difference is the soundstage. The soundstage and instrument separation on the Mk II is much bigger than that of the arrow.
   
  Overall I think the arrow produces a very impressive sound for it's size. Some people might even prefer the more straight forward sound of the arrow.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





alm0st said:


> First impressions:
> 
> After listening to the Arrow for a couple hours, I think I fell in love with it.
> The bass is nice and tight on bass bosst I. Bass boost II is a bit much for my liking.
> ...


 

 You really lost me.  Gen 2 or Gen 3?  The Arrow is warmer but Gen '?' is darker and colder??


----------



## Leander7777

Technically speaking gain settings just boost the amplitude associated to a certain point on the volume nob, but does it also alter the sound. In other words does a higher gain setting improve sound quality on larger headphones? I feel like my pro 900s sound more energetic on gain III, but they hiss a bit, so I generally leave it at gain II.


----------



## normalwrong

does anyone know how to reach them?they didnt reply my emails at all..


----------



## aLm0sT

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> You really lost me.  Gen 2 or Gen 3?  The Arrow is warmer but Gen '?' is darker and colder??


 

 The one I'm talking about is Gen 3.
  When I said darker and coler, I was referring to the Rx Mk II.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





alm0st said:


> The one I'm talking about is Gen 3.
> When I said darker and coler, I was referring to the Rx Mk II.


 
   
  Got it, thanks.


----------



## grokit

I usually equate darker with warmer though


----------



## aLm0sT

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I usually equate darker with warmer though


 

 I'm not very experienced at describing sound so I might be wrong. With darker and warmer I associated two different things. But I see what you mean. That would make sense as well.
  Maybe I should've just said "colder". =)


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





alm0st said:


> I'm not very experienced at describing sound so I might be wrong. With darker and warmer I associated two different things. But I see what you mean. That would make sense as well.
> Maybe I should've just said "colder". =)


 

  
  Your description of the Arrow as dark is the same as mine, I don't find the Arrow warm though. Your description of "cold" is to me "dry". To me, the Arrow is not a sweet sounding amp at all. I made these comments last year when I received my 1G Arrow. You can search for it. Impressions from Headfonia is similar to mine and yours.
   
  http://www.headfonia.com/the-usual-suspects-12-portable-amps-compared/3/


----------



## rave-87

Hi
  I listen to rock (metal too) bands
  My earphone is shure se315 ( will be se535 in future)
  Which version I must chosse ( 3G or 4G)
  I think 4G is better for me , what do you think?


----------



## s1rrah

I personally think the 4G would be awesome with the SE535's as the treble boost option (new to 4G models only) could potentially be fairly fun to play with (I'd rather have that instead of the impedance switching, anyway).
   
  In the future, I might be trading my 2G for the 4G just to explore the treble feature ...
   
  Good luck.
   
   
  Quote: 





rave-87 said:


> Hi
> I listen to rock (metal too) bands
> My earphone is shure se315 ( will be se535 in future)
> Which version I must chosse ( 3G or 4G)
> ...


----------



## Somnambulist

I enjoyed the Arrow at the meet. The bass boost absolutely destroyed my S:Flo2's user EQ set flat with just the bass boosted. Felt like a proper sub-bass boost rather than just a mid-bass hump (which is obvious given that the lowest frequency the user EQ can boost/cut is 60hz). Bass boost set to 2 was quite possibly OTT for long term listening though and I agree with whoever said that a setting between 1 and 2 would be perfect. Therefore I'd imagine the 4G would in fact be suited to me. I also found it slightly on the dark side as noted above, although the treble boost on the 4G should help there (my player has some treble roll-off already so...).
   
  I was also fascinated to see how small and light it was in the flesh. I think the macro-shots of amps we tend to see on Head-Fi make us imagine things to be bigger than they actually are. The Arrow is TINY.
   
  I'm thinking about ordering one now, however I confess heaving heard the Just Audio portable amp at the meet, I'm torn. The dimensions aren't quite as pocket friendly but it was slightly more detailed and spacious sounding than the Arrow (see the thread on the first page) and is around £200 so roughly in the same price range. The bass is somewhat like the Arrow 3G on +1, which was pleasing to the ear. That said... I still think the Arrow will still be my first choice, especially if I go with this iPod Touch, CLAS, amp set up since the DAC section is fairly large in itself and I'd prefer the 'long and thin' portable amps over the 'short and fat' kind.


----------



## aLm0sT

Anyone else experiencing a constantly hissing sound when the Arrow is charging? Is this normal? 
  Don't have that problem with my Rx Mk II.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





alm0st said:


> Anyone else experiencing a constantly hissing sound when the Arrow is charging? Is this normal?
> Don't have that problem with my Rx Mk II.


 


  No. I've listened while charging with both IEMs and full sized and have never heard any hissing. Email the builder, I'm sure he'll work with you if it continues to be a problem.
   
  Best.


----------



## aLm0sT

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> No. I've listened while charging with both IEMs and full sized and have never heard any hissing. Email the builder, I'm sure he'll work with you if it continues to be a problem.
> 
> Best.


 
  I just figured it might be the noise from the fans of my laptop (although they're extremely quite). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Will check tomorrow if I have the same problem when I charge it on my desktop pc or with a with USB charger.
   
  Pretty sure it's the fan though. I hope it is..


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





alm0st said:


> Anyone else experiencing a constantly hissing sound when the Arrow is charging? Is this normal?
> Don't have that problem with my Rx Mk II.


 

 Never heard that on mine.  Though mine is a 2G w/ 10ohm output imp standard.


----------



## Leander7777

It isn't the fan... I had the same problem a few times, but don't worry about it. I don't think the arrow was meant to be used while being charged.


----------



## aLm0sT

.


----------



## rbf1138

So I just ordered the Arrow. If I plan on using it with a Macbook Pro, Ipod Touch, and Sansa Clip, what kind of additional cables/passthroughs will I want. I have a nuforce uDAC, so that should pair with the MBP and Arrow well, correct? I also have a LOD for my Touch. Anything I'm missing?


----------



## maverickronin

A mini-mini for the Clip if you don't already have a small one. A RCAx2 to mini for the uDAC.

That should be it.


----------



## rbf1138

I have the nuforce uDAC for my speakers, but would I want to get the USB DAC cable sold by the Arrow maker?


----------



## grokit

Nah, your Clip+ will use its own DAC into the Arrow, you can't get digital out of it.


----------



## rbf1138

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nah, your Clip+ will use its own DAC into the Arrow, you can't get digital out of it.


 

 What about directly out of my macbook into the arrow if I'm on the go? Is this uDAC as good as the cable?


----------



## grokit

That's subjective but I would say yes. I've heard the uDac-1 and the USB cable but not the uDac-2 which is supposed to be better. The uDac-1 and the DAC cable sound different, but better is about taste. The cable was more neutral IIRC. I don't think the Headphonia DAC cable is available anymore anyways.


----------



## FuzzyDunlop

There's a new DAC cable coming soon


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





fuzzydunlop said:


> There's a new DAC cable coming soon


 

 U mean the Headstage DAC cable that's been coming for more than a year?


----------



## FuzzyDunlop

Robert time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sorry, just re read the email and it's the stick that's being redesigned, from the email;
   
_The DAC stick and DAC cable are not available now. For your
 laptop I would suggest the stick but I am just re-designing it (to make it
 smaller). The cable will be available shortly again._


----------



## airwax

I paid for that DAC cable, I hope Robert does not just abandon that.


----------



## Blasto_Brandino

How much is the dac cable?


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





airwax said:


> I paid for that DAC cable, I hope Robert does not just abandon that.


 


  Ditto... I've got one on order as well. I received the Arrow 3G a good while ago, but he never mentioned anything about the DAC cable.


----------



## rbf1138

My Arrow shipped yesterday, hours after ordering it! Do they ship USPS or UPS/Fedex usually?


----------



## grokit

International first class mail from Germany.


----------



## MorbidToaster

It's officially been 3 weeks since my Arrow was reported as shipped.

Needless to say I am disappointed that I am unable to give my impressions and such. I check the mail every day for it. I've been dieing to give it a good break in.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> It's officially been 3 weeks since my Arrow was reported as shipped.
> 
> Needless to say I am disappointed.


 

 Bravo, trolling every thread except the relevant one.  Derailing this thread for shipping complaints has been discussed exhaustingly enough already.  Quite it please.  Applies to everyone else too.


----------



## MorbidToaster

anaxilus said:


> Bravo, trolling every thread except the relevant one.  Derailing this thread for shipping complaints has been discussed exhaustingly enough already.  Quite it please.  Applies to everyone else too.




Woah, way to jump on me there. I haven't caused a problem around these parts before. Shipping was being discussed so I mentioned my situation. I wasn't trolling anything, thanks. 

How about you keep it level headed? That was an extremely rude way to go about voicing your complaint.

EDIT: I could have been a little nicer about mentioning my situation, but christ man. Calm down. Oh, and I made it a little nicer, just for you.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> It's officially been 3 weeks since my Arrow was reported as shipped.
> 
> Needless to say I am disappointed that I am unable to give my impressions and such. I check the mail every day for it. I've been dieing to give it a good break in.


 
  I was considering one and read both the Arrow threads all the way through.  My conclusion is that 3 weeks would be fast...


----------



## Blasto_Brandino

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> It's officially been 3 weeks since my Arrow was reported as shipped.
> 
> Needless to say I am disappointed that I am unable to give my impressions and such. I check the mail every day for it. I've been dieing to give it a good break in.


 


  I ordered mine and EXACTLY two weeks later it was in my hands.
  I cannot get over how slim this thing is, with an Iphone 5 and the ER4s it will be an epic beast. I'm interested in this dac cable. I'll be patient..
  I have also ordered a Leckerton Audio UHA-4, I will be comparing it to the arrow.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well, sorry but I think this is the second time we've had this discussion.  I just want to keep it on topic otherwise it gets out of control.  There is already a thread about shipping issues and delay on the Arrow.  You also made your own thread  in addition to it.  Now you are bringing it into the impressions thread also.  You aren't the only guilty here so sorry about that.  I'm sure I've made the same mistake in this thread before.  I'm just picking up Mediaogre's torch.


----------



## MorbidToaster

maverickronin said:


> I was considering one and read both the Arrow threads all the way through.  My conclusion is that 3 weeks would be fast...




Not from the ship date, from what I've read it's taken awhile for them to ship. Once it ships people seem to get theirs decently quick. Someone even posted that theirs took just a week to get to them in the US after it was reported shipped.

I am honestly getting worried about it, but I'm not like having a heart attack or anything yet.

Then again you've read the both all the way through, so you'd know better than me.


----------



## MorbidToaster

anaxilus said:


> Well, sorry but I think this is the second time we've had this discussion.  I just want to keep it on topic otherwise it gets out of control.  There is already a thread about shipping issues and delay on the Arrow.  You also made your own thread  in addition to it.  Now you are bringing it into the impressions thread also.  You aren't the only guilty here so sorry about that.  I'm sure I've made the same mistake in this thread before.  I'm just picking up Mediaogre's torch.




Wow I didn't realize I'd been that whiny about it in the past 3 weeks. I'm sorry about that. I have some memory problems, I'm like a goldfish really. If I'm not constantly updated so something is on my mind I forget about it. Didn't mean to post it everywhere. Just didn't expect to be jumped on like that. No worries I suppose. I do look forward to giving my impressions though!

EDIT: I think one of the bigger problems I have is that I forget how slowly Head-Fi can move sometimes. On some forums once your thread or comment gets pushed a few pages back, it's completely forgotten. That doesn't ring true around here though.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote:  
   
  No worries.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I guess the gods got sick of my complaining too...Opened my mailbox this morning...




First impressions, it really lifts the veil on the TMA-1. It clears up the slight mud that comes with these straight out of the J3. The Bass boost sounds fantastic on stage 1, and stage 2, but the TMA-1 just has no need for that second step. 

...And no joke...it may have to go already. Something big has just hit my savings hard and if some of my bigger items don't sell, this one will have to...Hoping it doesn't come to that but if it does at least I got my first impressions out there. lol


----------



## High_Q

How do you know if the battery is fully charged or not?  Is there an indicator?


----------



## dannytang

Quote: 





high_q said:


> How do you know if the battery is fully charged or not?  Is there an indicator?


 

 From experience, the little LED is green when charging and turns off once it is fully charged.


----------



## High_Q

Is it just me or does it sound way to forward on the high end?  Its very tight and controlled, but just don't like how it could get fatiguing too early.  As I am a mids person, If the high end is too high, I can turn the volume up to listen to the mids without damaging my ears because of the excessive treble.  Any solutions?  I'm using  Sony EX-1000 source from imod by the way.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





high_q said:


> Is it just me or does it sound way to forward on the high end?  Its very tight and controlled, but just don't like how it could get fatiguing too early.  As I am a mids person, If the high end is too high, I can turn the volume up to listen to the mids without damaging my ears because of the excessive treble.  Any solutions?  I'm using  Sony EX-1000 source from imod by the way.


 

 Strange, I don't think the Arrow has harsh highs at all, it's neutral to warm sometimes.  The EX1000 was really fatiguing in the treble for me and I WAS using the Arrow when I heard them.  Either it has bad synergy w/ the EX1000 or everyone else is under driving the EX1000 which is why they like the sound so much because the Arrow does not have forward or harsh highs.  Easy to see w/ any other phone.  I don't usually agree w/ your impressions or sentiments but I have to agree in this case.  Arrow+EX1000 was bad to my ears, Arrow is not bad, ergo......


----------



## grokit

Try playing around with the impedance switch, *High_Q*.


----------



## High_Q

I did, it sound recessed if I up the impedance.  On UM3X, it hisses so up the impedance, but doesn't sound the same. It sounds recessed.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Try playing around with the impedance switch, *High_Q*.


----------



## rbf1138

3 weeks since "shipped" and still no Arrow!


----------



## aLm0sT

Quote: 





rbf1138 said:


> 3 weeks since "shipped" and still no Arrow!


 

 That's nothing. I've been waiting like 2 month for an item from the US.. and I'm still waiting!


----------



## lazysleepyboi

LOL i check back every once in a while to see what people are saying and it's basically the same
   
  first: You decide whether you should place an order, if it works for you, blah blah blah
   
  second: placed an order, everyone says you wont be disappointed
   
  third: OMG where's my arrow
   
  fourth: this is really small and well built, i'm glad i got this
   
  LOL i'm heard it all before for this arrow amp. Just wait patiently and it'll pay you back tenfold. Waiting a few weeks is nothing, just wait patiently and you wont regret it. Kudos to everyone that has an arrow amp and is loving it.


----------



## crd88

Maybe someone can help a dummy out here. I'm researching beyerdynamic DT 990s and I see they offer three Impedance options at - 32, 250, 600*Ω*. From what I read, "lower impedance ratings offer higher volumes at the same level of input, but need heavier drivers to compensate for low impedance or risk sounding muddy and distorted". I own a Headstage Arrow 12HE 3G. Any suggestions?


----------



## dfkt

250 seems fine, 600 seems like overkill.


----------



## Anaxilus

For you the 250 should be more than adequate.


----------



## maverickronin

From the specs, the voltage step up circuit on the battery should be able to give you all the volume anyone would want for the any of those Beyers.  The 600 ohm 770/880/990 are all easy to drive in the since that they'll sound _good _out of weak amps but they need an amp that can give them a lot of voltage to get very _loud_.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> From the specs, the voltage step up circuit on the battery should be able to give you all the volume anyone would want for the any of those Beyers.  The 600 ohm 770/880/990 are all easy to drive in the since that they'll sound _good _out of weak amps but they need an amp that can give them a lot of voltage to get very _loud_.


 

 FYI, the 880/600 didn't get loud or sound very good from my DACPort and I would not consider that a weak amp.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> FYI, the 880/600 didn't get loud or sound very good from my DACPort and I would not consider that a weak amp.


 

 The loud part, yeah.  Its only got a 5V power supply.  Some people will want more volume.  I've owned both the 770/600 and 990/600 and they both got loud enough for me from my Bithead via USB where its got the same 5V power supply but I listen quietly.  The difference between how the 770s sounded on my Bihead and my Bottlehead Crack (OTL tube amp kit) amounted to a bit more bass and a hair more warmth on the Crack.  Hell, if I was listening in a quiet area the Crack didn't sound much different from my D2+!  There was no amazing revelation, no change in the sound sig.  Not like a K340 or something.  That's a 'phone I've owned which does change rather dramatically with quality and/or power of amplification.  Between my Maverick D1 and my Crack, they sounded like completely different 'phones.
   
  Its not just about the amount of impedance, its about the curve.  My HD650 has a much bigger hump in its curve than the 770/880/990s and consequently doesn't sound as good from an amp with a low voltage power supply like my Bithead.  It doesn't take a ton though.  My XM6 has an 8.4V battery pack and it handles my HD650s beautifully at any volume I listen at.  Even my "crank it for one song" level is covered.  Its still not for everyone though.  At meets I've discovered that some people's regular listening level is even louder than that!  The 12V step up in the Arrow should handle all but the hardest-core headbangers just fine.  A lot of budget desktop amps run from 12V and do just fine for most people.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> The loud part, yeah.  Its only got a 5V power supply.


 

 "DACport's advanced, low-distortion Class A headphone amplifier runs on super-clean 18V rails (±9V, bipolar supply). Higher voltage means more headroom and more output power to drive any headphones."
   
  Go figure.  It actually does very well driving the HD650.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> "DACport's advanced, low-distortion Class A headphone amplifier runs on super-clean 18V rails (±9V, bipolar supply). Higher voltage means more headroom and more output power to drive any headphones."
> 
> Go figure.  It actually does very well driving the HD650.


 
   
   
  So it has a DC-DC converter _and _a rail splitter?  That's pretty surprising.  I only ever herd it at CanJam where they stupidly paired with the T1 and assumed it didn't because it barely went loud enough to cut the background noise (even though those are more sensitive than other 600 ohm Beyers) it just ran from the filtered USB +5V _and_ that its topology was designed for fidelity at a severe expense to power output.  I guess the first one is wrong and the second one is doubly true.
   
  Is that some byproduct of it being biased into class A?  That's the only thing I can think of right now.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> So it has a DC-DC converter _and _a rail splitter?  That's pretty surprising.  I only ever herd it at CanJam where they stupidly paired with the T1 and assumed it didn't because it barely went loud enough to cut the background noise (even though those are more sensitive than other 600 ohm Beyers) it just ran from the filtered USB +5V _and_ that its topology was designed for fidelity at a severe expense to power output.  I guess the first one is wrong and the second one is doubly true.
> 
> Is that some byproduct of it being biased into class A?  That's the only thing I can think of right now.


 
   
  Can't say as I'm a better Mech E than EE but I can say the Arrow definitely has better drive than the DACPort which surprised me based on specs alone.  I could ask CEntrance since I'm asking if they can mod my DACPort from 10ohms to <1ohm.


----------



## rbf1138

So just to clarify, my new Arrow should be able to power my incoming DT880 600ohms?


----------



## Audiophile1811

Quote: 





rbf1138 said:


> So just to clarify, my new Arrow should be able to power my incoming DT880 600ohms?


 


  It sure will. If it promises 600ohms, then it should power them at it's highest voltage level.


----------



## rbf1138

Would someone mind doing a rundown of when/what situations the gain and impedance switches should be used?
   
  Also, I'm currently using this LOD: http://www.headphone.com/accessories/sendstation-ipod-pocket-dock-line-out-mini-usb.php
  Is this fine, or can I get something much better that's reasonably priced? Right now it can feel a bit loose, and I don't have a ton of confidence in the quality of the signal.


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





rbf1138 said:


> Would someone mind doing a rundown of when/what situations the gain and impedance switches should be used?
> 
> Also, I'm currently using this LOD: http://www.headphone.com/accessories/sendstation-ipod-pocket-dock-line-out-mini-usb.php
> Is this fine, or can I get something much better that's reasonably priced? Right now it can feel a bit loose, and I don't have a ton of confidence in the quality of the signal.


 


  it all depends on your headphones, and even that isn't an accurate way to telling which impedance or gain you should use. You have to really test it for yourself and see what your ears like the most. It's all a matter of personal opinion when it comes to sound so instead of trying to figure what you're supposed to use theoretically, try testing out each setting and when you find one you're happy with, stick with it. Oh yeah, and for your link, that seems a bit expensive. Most people go from the ipod part to a male 3.55 part directly. Go to the DIY section and you'll see what other people have done, it might give you an idea of what you should be expecting out of your LOD


----------



## grokit

There's lots of quality LODs out there, you can spend $25 to $250 so get a Fiio on Amazon or look is the FS forums for a great deal on something better used. I think that the Sendstation lets you charge via a USB cable while playing, while a traditional LOD will not.
   
  As far as the controls, you want the gain to give you your desired volume at around the middle of the dial. The rated impedance of the headphone is a guideline to how to set the switch but let your ears tell you what sounds best. How the impedance settings sound seems to be similar to the new treble switch that replaced it so it's about how much HF rolloff you want.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





rbf1138 said:


> So just to clarify, my new Arrow should be able to power my incoming DT880 600ohms?


 


  Id like to hear your opinion about it when your DT880 show up but regardless of specs I know I would be unhappy with my DT880 if the only thing I had to power them was the Arrow. I thought they needed more juice IMO. But yes, you can make sound with the Arrow>DT880 600ohm.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





rbf1138 said:


> So just to clarify, my new Arrow should be able to power my incoming DT880 600ohms?


 

 I spent a couple hours this weekend with my roommates 600ohm 880s and the Arrow and came away pleased. Personally, I was comfortable with the sound and volume levels at the default gain settings.
   
  Compared to the Raptor desktop and the Woo 6 SE amps that I have, the Arrow lacked a bit of the "weight" and impact but it was still a very nice listen. No distortion, even at higher volumes. So yeah ... you'll dig it, I'm sure.
   
  BTW : 
   
  I'm going to have a pre production sample board of the 4G in the next week or so and will post some thoughts on the treble switch functionality. It's just a loaner but I think it's about up to spec on what the production boards will feature (I still need to ask Robert about any special info on the board). Anyway, I'll comment on the new design a bit once I've had it for a few days.
   
  .joel


----------



## grokit

Hi Joel, while you're at it, please ask Robert if the treble switch is essentially a re-labeled impedance selector, or if is something completely different or something in-between; I would like to know more about what has changed there.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Hi Joel, while you're at it, please ask Robert if the treble switch is essentially a re-labeled impedance selector, or if is something completely different or something in-between; I would like to know more about what has changed there.


 

  
  I highly doubt that Robert simply re-labled an existing circuit. Maybe he did. But I doubt it.
   
  To my own ear? The impedance switch on my current 2G amp doesn't really emulate differing high frequency models really. And so I'm sure the upcoming "treble boost" switch is going to be something far different.
   
  But hey. That's just me.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> I highly doubt that Robert simply re-labled an existing circuit. Maybe he did. But I doubt it.
> 
> To my own ear? The impedance switch on my current 2G amp doesn't really emulate differing high frequency models really. And so I'm sure the upcoming "treble boost" switch is going to be something far different.
> 
> But hey. That's just me.






   
  To my ears the impedance switch definitely affects the treble. Now the impedance switch has disappeared, and we have a new treble switch.
   
  I'm sure it's just a coincidence


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





grokit said:


> To my ears the impedance switch definitely affects the treble. Now the impedance switch has disappeared, and we have a new treble switch.
> 
> I'm sure it's just a coincidence


 

 I'm not sure but I thought he made a comment about this somewhere saying it is not a rebadged impedance switch.  Enabling the impedance cuts down on the treble, yes.  But the treble enhancer not enabled should be operating at around 0 ohms and if one were to enable the treble booster, as a rebadged imp switch, it would not increase treble if it were increasing impedance.


----------



## grokit

So is impedance matching automatic now, or deemed to be unnecessary?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So is impedance matching automatic now, or deemed to be unnecessary?


 

 The Latter I believe.  Nothing beyond the automatic power adaption they currently use to my knowledge.  The next few weeks should prove more enlightening.


----------



## sunwolf

IMP switch:

With HD25s, selecting I or II cuts off the higher frequencies.

With HD650s, selecting 0 or I sounds identical, selecting II has a very slight, barely audible cut off of the higher frequencies.

What is the point of the IMP switch?

Is there any reason not to keep it on 0 since I and II can only sound the same or worse depending on the headphones?


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





sunwolf said:


> IMP switch:
> 
> With HD25s, selecting I or II cuts off the higher frequencies.
> 
> ...


 


  there's a theory in the impedence, but in actual practice, only your ears will tell you what sounds better. You could use what we all tell you, but i find that the best judge of sound is you and not everyone else here.


----------



## maverickronin

Look up the impedance curve and do the math.


----------



## Anaxilus

Just got the 4G preproduction board today.  The treble booster is in fact a treble booster w/ 3 settings (Off, Med, High).  The impedance switch is gone.  For those that thought the Arrow was too dark the 4G is a different animal w/ the treble switch.  Still early but I don't detect any issues from the enhanced treble.  More to come.


----------



## shotgunshane

Definitely interested in hearing more.  This feature and the lower initial gain, presumably for iems, may finally push me to buy one.


----------



## Audiophile1811

Quote:


anaxilus said:


> Just got the 4G preproduction board today.  The treble booster is in fact a treble booster w/ 3 settings (Off, Med, High).  The impedance switch is gone.


 

  I guess I was right.


----------



## i2ehan

Thought I'd chime in my own thoughts while the discussions still hot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I don't have much to say, Id' rather you hear the end result yourself. To anyone with the W4 coupled with the Headstage 3G, try the following and this alone will answer that ever popular question, was this worth it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Apply the following settings: bass on high (or even low for all you non-bassheads), crossfeed on low/high (whatever your preference), gain on high, and impedence off. Now for the final ingredient, *AFTER *all the aforementioned settings have been applied, play *the following track*. There's your $300! Trust me, you won't regret it!


----------



## Erieg

Question. Since this charges via a USB port I should be able to use my standard iPod charger to charge instead of dragging my PC everywhere correct?


----------



## lazysleepyboi

no, your ipod cable doesnt have the right plug. if you have a psp or ps3 controller charge cable, then it's the same.
   
  edit: are you just talking about the cradle? Like the apple adapter where you can plug any usb into it? If so, then yes you can. All that happens is that it charges faster. Rob advised against it, but i know some people charge from an actual outlet because it's more convenient. All that happens from charging from a computer to an actual wall outlet is the amps change. The amp of a computer usb port is 0.5A while the amp on the ipod wall charger is 1A i believe. More amps, in a theoretical sense, means a shorter period for charging. But the disadvantage of that is that some people have said that it degrades the battery quicker. Your pick


----------



## Erieg

Thanks, I was referring to the wall wort/plug. I am heading somewhere that I really don't want to take a laptop to but they do have power there. Loss of battery life would be bad but frankly Rob is selling them dirt cheap anyways.
  
  Quote: 





lazysleepyboi said:


> no, your ipod cable doesnt have the right plug. if you have a psp or ps3 controller charge cable, then it's the same.
> 
> edit: are you just talking about the cradle? Like the apple adapter where you can plug any usb into it? If so, then yes you can. All that happens is that it charges faster. Rob advised against it, but i know some people charge from an actual outlet because it's more convenient. All that happens from charging from a computer to an actual wall outlet is the amps change. The amp of a computer usb port is 0.5A while the amp on the ipod wall charger is 1A i believe. More amps, in a theoretical sense, means a shorter period for charging. But the disadvantage of that is that some people have said that it degrades the battery quicker. Your pick


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





erieg said:


> Thanks, I was referring to the wall wort/plug. I am heading somewhere that I really don't want to take a laptop to but they do have power there. Loss of battery life would be bad but frankly Rob is selling them dirt cheap anyways.


 


  true, you can technically do it yourself. It's just a quick replace for the battery, and these battery usually last long periods for time, so you should be fine for a while.


----------



## mudo

Hi. I hope this thread is a proper place to ask about this. I would use a Fuze + Fiio L6 LOD + Arrow G4 to drive my phones (Grado 225i / Senn HD650 / Phonak PFE). Is the my source (Fuze) good enough to justify buying the Arrow to use it in this mini-chain? I mean: Don't know if the DAC in the Fuze is worth to throw 200€ in the Arrow and maybe I should instead spend 50€ in a Fiio E11 (?)


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mudo said:


> Hi. I hope this thread is a proper place to ask about this. I would use a Fuze + Fiio L6 LOD + Arrow G4 to drive my phones (Grado 225i / Senn HD650 / Phonak PFE). Is the my source (Fuze) good enough to justify buying the Arrow to use it in this mini-chain? I mean: Don't know if the DAC in the Fuze is worth to throw 200€ in the Arrow and maybe I should instead spend 50€ in a Fiio E11 (?)


 

  
  The HD650 will benefit nicely from the extra voltage.  The others won't need the power but can still benefit from crossfeed/bass boost/whatever else got added to the 4G.  Don't worry about the DAC.  Among most modern DACs the differences are small enough you're better off spending money on a new pair of headphones or an amp for power-hungry or high impedance 'phones like the HD650s.


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





mudo said:


> Hi. I hope this thread is a proper place to ask about this. I would use a Fuze + Fiio L6 LOD + Arrow G4 to drive my phones (Grado 225i / Senn HD650 / Phonak PFE). Is the my source (Fuze) good enough to justify buying the Arrow to use it in this mini-chain? I mean: Don't know if the DAC in the Fuze is worth to throw 200€ in the Arrow and maybe I should instead spend 50€ in a Fiio E11 (?)


 


  you'll be fine, just rockbox your fuze and take advantage of that arrow goodness. The sennheiser HD650 will definitely benefit from it no doubt, the other headphones will as well since the arrow amp refines the sound, no matter what the source. The E11 is a good price to value amp, but i find myself still being amazed by the arrow amp. The arrow amp is future proof, but from what I've read, the E11 is a piece of art. For the money you spend on the E11, it's really worth it. It really depends on if you're looking to get your amp future proofed or not.


----------



## heart banger-97

I was hear ed when a fuze be rockboxed , the line out cable will not work
  is that problem fixed?


----------



## mudo

Yes, a long time ago.
  EDIT: Line out support is working in Fuze V1 since a long time ago. But sadly it is not working for Fuze V2 because Rockbox team still need to figure out how to activate it before they can release a version with line out support.
   
  (Come on Sandisk! help them just a little bit publishing this info!)
  
  Quote: 





heart banger-97 said:


> I was hear ed when a fuze be rockboxed , the line out cable will not work
> is that problem fixed?


 

 Thank you maverickronin and lazysleepyboi for your help. Order placed, good bye, money! Now let's wait those 2 months or so...


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





mudo said:


> Yes, a long time ago.
> 
> 
> Thank you maverickronin and lazysleepyboi for your help. Order placed, good bye, money! Now let's wait those 2 months or so...


 


  patience is key in this, but I'm sure you're ready for that. Congrats on the purchase, the production of the 4g model should be quicker than it was for the 3g one, so shouldn't be longer than 2 months


----------



## phntmsmshr

Add me to the list of people waiting on a preorder for a 4G. In the meantime, will probably buy a slightly less portable XM6 that still includes the 75ohm impedance switch. ER4S here I come.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





phntmsmshr said:


> Add me to the list of people waiting on a preorder for a 4G. In the meantime, will probably buy a slightly less portable XM6 that still includes the 75ohm impedance switch.* ER4S here I come*.


 

 Hopefully, I've heard mixed opinions on whether it really is that simple.  Some inline resistors seem to work better at transforming P's to S's than others.  Don't know the truth of it myself as I've only had the ER4S....twice.


----------



## phntmsmshr

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Hopefully, I've heard mixed opinions on whether it really is that simple.  Some inline resistors seem to work better at transforming P's to S's than others.  Don't know the truth of it myself as I've only had the ER4S....twice.


 
  James at PD seems to think that it's an acceptable substitute, far be it from me to take the word of a salesman at face value but I'd like to think that he's not just about shifting units under false pretense.


----------



## pseudohippy

Grados love voltage, never doubt this, it is completely true. My Grados love my 3G and even more my Lyr.


----------



## ubercaffeinated

i personally find a difference between using 3rd party p to s resistors and the original etymotic p to s convertor.
   
  i took the hit to my wallet to get the real ety p to s convertor and there is a difference in sound compared to the 3rd party version i got. i didn't want to try a variety of different 3rd party resistors, when i could just suck it up and pay to hear the er-4p->s like it was intended to be heard.
   
  am i fooling myself to thinking there is a difference? maybe. but i think there is one, so therefore it is different to me. 
  
  Quote: 





phntmsmshr said:


> James at PD seems to think that it's an acceptable substitute, far be it from me to take the word of a salesman at face value but I'd like to think that he's not just about shifting units under false pretense.


----------



## mudo

Quote: 





ubercaffeinated said:


> am i fooling myself to thinking there is a difference? maybe. but i think there is one, so therefore it is different to me.


 


  Well, I belong to those tbat think that the music you hear is the one that is powered by the electricity your headphones receive so... just measure the impedance of both adapters with a multimeter. It you get the same ohms, I can't find any reason why they should sound different.
   
  EDIT: Assuming they both make good contact.


----------



## Rat Salad

I think... No I am sure...
   
  When I logged on to HeadPhonia today and checked my order status (as I do hourly since 6-6 - 9:01am),  the colon ) between the "Order status" and "Order Processing" was a tad darker than it was last time.
   
  I think this is a good sign. Getting closer...


----------



## mudo

So lucky, you! I can not even log in the website. When I was making the order I finished the payment and when Paypal redirected me back to headphonia's site I got an error. Now I see my money is gone, the order *seems* to be completed (paypal gave me my own order number and the status is "pending") but I can not login to headphonia and the password recovery page says that I'm not filling all the form when I try to recover it.
   
  I know this is not the thread to talk about this, but lets call this is a "funny" moment I'm having wondering what happens with my order... I hopefully will get mail updates when the order changes its status... (will I?)


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





mudo said:


> So lucky, you! I can not even log in the website. When I was making the order I finished the payment and when Paypal redirected me back to headphonia's site I got an error. Now I see my money is gone, the order *seems* to be completed (paypal gave me my own order number and the status is "pending") but I can not login to headphonia and the password recovery page says that I'm not filling all the form when I try to recover it.
> 
> I know this is not the thread to talk about this, but lets call this is a "funny" moment I'm having wondering what happens with my order... I hopefully will get mail updates when the order changes its status... (will I?)


 


  try a different browser when you try to get a password recovery


----------



## Rat Salad

i did get a message when it changed from order pending to order processing (bout 4 days after order).


----------



## mudo

Quote: 





lazysleepyboi said:


> try a different browser when you try to get a password recovery


 
  Same problem. First I tried with Firefox, now with IE:


----------



## Rat Salad

Is your address is in newsletter subscribing field?   have you tried w/o it there


----------



## mudo

I already tried deleting that, using the left side form, the one on the right side... even using the browser of my phone. Anyway finally Robert wrote back telling me my order was ok and I think he will solve the problem I have in his website. I also received a mail saying the status of my order changed to "order processing". I won't talk more about order issues in this appreciation thread, but I thought it was not fair to skip this message saying that things are getting solved. If I post here let's hope that is to say the amp is great


----------



## vayz

hey, guys . i'd ordered arrow 4th gen too from april 29(at that day the status quicky changed to order processing too because robert is still active mailing with me),but for now i've got no reply about the status. So, i want to ask about past experience, that means i'm batch 1 rite n'll receive the amp first?Then how long for it takes for the previous batch 1? thx before


----------



## lazysleepyboi

until it says mailed, then i wouldn't think too much about it. For me, i was processed for a while, and until it says "mailed" or something like that, you won't get a response. Just wait it out for now, no point in hoping that it'll come soon. Remember, this amp comes from a LOT of patience, just wait it out


----------



## Rat Salad

I am waiting.. In the meantime I am researching my first pair of IEMs ever (helps kill the time)...  I wanna keep it affordable, because maybe I won't like sticking something in my ear.
   
  Considering CK7 or NE-700x (70 usd range).  I assume the ability to configure the Arrow will make both of these safe choice.  
   
  I am willing to hear sub-100 suggestions is anyone has any.  I know there are tons of shoot-out threads, but anyone with specific IEM used with the arrow would be interesting.


----------



## Poimandres

You may want to check out the RE0 thread in the iem section. It appears that the 0 pairs quite nicely with the arrow 3.


----------



## heart banger-97

oh I can't believe it
  I preordered the 4G on 7th april and it's still in Order processing
  what's going on?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  if I ordered a ttvj  ...


----------



## Rat Salad

If you ordered a TTVJ you would always be matching phones to your amp or using software (player EQ) to make matches.  With the Arrow you have flexibility of creating a hardware match and I prefer hardware to control sound over software (maybe because i am so old).
   
  The other thing is... you can trade in the arrow for upgrades..
   
  The other other thing is... The wait on the arrow drives the resell price up (people like immediate gratification).  So, I think if I hate arrow, out of the box, I can probably get all my money back (could probably pull off profit but I would not do that)


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





heart banger-97 said:


> oh I can't believe it
> I preordered the 4G on 7th april and it's still in Order processing
> what's going on?
> 
> ...


 


  read a few pages of this thread and you'll notice the trend. Patience is key in these amp, and you can't rush them on this. Their customer service could be better, but their products are terrific. Waiting two or three months seems like nothing because a lot of members have waited longer than that. Also, Rob said the 4g would be coming out June/July. So in reality, he's not late at all. Don't be surprised if you have to wait until August or September, it happens.


----------



## heart banger-97

Quote: 





lazysleepyboi said:


> read a few pages of this thread and you'll notice the trend. Patience is key in these amp, and you can't rush them on this. Their customer service could be better, but their products are terrific. Waiting two or three months seems like nothing because a lot of members have waited longer than that. Also, Rob said the 4g would be coming out June/July. So in reality, he's not late at all. Don't be surprised if you have to wait until August or September, it happens.


 
   




   
   
  when I ordered , it was mentioned that it will be shipped about June , not about  July or ...


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





heart banger-97 said:


> when I ordered , it was mentioned that it will be shipped about June , not about  July or ...


 


  yeah, well take what is given to you and expect the worse. That's the mind set you have to take when it comes to this amp


----------



## caracara08

i mean, is it really that different from the 3g that it would be delayed?


----------



## esanthosh

Quote: 





heart banger-97 said:


> oh I can't believe it
> I preordered the 4G on 7th april and it's still in Order processing
> what's going on?


 

 If you think that is "waiting" enough to get 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, hear this - I ordered my Arrow 3G in August, 2010. Rob sent it on December 17th and our postal department somehow lost it (and that happens to be one of the two international parcels I've *ever* lost so far) and Rob was kind enough to send me another by end of February and it took 20 more days (Usually, posts from EU reach me within a week, so imagine more frustration). It was in the end, 7½ months wait for me. But, the wait was still worth it. So, just be patient...


----------



## dannytang

Quote: 





heart banger-97 said:


> oh I can't believe it
> I preordered the 4G on 7th april and it's still in Order processing
> what's going on?
> 
> ...


 


  To be honest, a 2 month wait is normal with the Arrow. I ordered mine with a USB DAC cable in August 2010 and didn't receive the Arrow till late December 2010. Add to that the fact that I still haven't received the USB DAC cable yet, I think you need to calm down and be patient, your Arrow will come soon enough. =)


----------



## feverfive

Yeah, if you had researched at all you would've known very well a long wait was gonna happen.  I feel ya, but it's not exactly a unique story.  Yeah, I know "cool story bro", but one of my orders for the 2G Arrow in March 2010 resulted in a 6 month wait.  I didn't get my Arrow until August, but I did end up getting a 3G instead.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> i mean, is it really that different from the 3g that it would be delayed?


 

 Yes it is.  Prototype units were sent out to some of us for evaluation prior to finalizations.  Changes to the character of the bass boost and adding the treble switch are not things to consider lightly and rush out the door.  As those of you who follow threads around here, questions about how much is 'too much' and what is 'just right' are not easy to answer.  What is the goal?  Adding fun to neutrality or fixing deficiencies?  Your point of reference and general intent are important considerations.
   
  Even on default settings I find the 4G prototype to be an improvement over my 2.2G  Could just be the switch from 10 Z out or something else.  Don't have a 3G to compare to.


----------



## heart banger-97

Quote: 





esanthosh said:


> If you think that is "waiting" enough to get
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 oh yes I was saw your story few pages ago
  but what  is on my nerve is that no one knows about shipping time . if I know that it will be shipped in 3 or 4 month I will prepare myself for that from beginning


----------



## Rat Salad

Heart... There is another option for you and I do not mean to be a smart-butt at all here.  But, I hear refunds on non-delivered arrow amps are quick, so you could ask for a refund and have a TTVJ in a couple weeks.
   
   
  I am waiting for my arrow no matter how long it takes.    Yet in contrast, I refuse to wait at restaurants no matter how hyped they are, I will hit a drive through before I will wait an hour for a table.  Everybody has their thing..


----------



## heart banger-97

Quote: 





rat salad said:


> Heart... There is another option for you and I do not mean to be a smart-butt at all here.  But, I hear refunds on non-delivered arrow amps are quick, so you could ask for a refund and have a TTVJ in a couple weeks.


 







  I was thinking about that 2 or 3 weeks ago , but I can't  cancel my order . I think that I'm in love with arrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  and wish to have it as soon as possible
  on the other side , Robert doesn't reply any email


----------



## heart banger-97

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Yes it is.  Prototype units were sent out to some of us for evaluation prior to finalizations.  Changes to the character of the bass boost and adding the treble switch are not things to consider lightly and rush out the door.  As those of you who follow threads around here, questions about how much is 'too much' and what is 'just right' are not easy to answer.  What is the goal?  Adding fun to neutrality or fixing deficiencies?  Your point of reference and general intent are important considerations.
> 
> Even on default settings I find the 4G prototype to be an improvement over my 2.2G  Could just be the switch from 10 Z out or something else.  Don't have a 3G to compare to.


 

 hi *Anaxilus*
*I hear that you *receive* a preproduction from Robert*
  can you have a review  between 4G and uha-4?
  I am read  the Blasto_Brandino's  review (and other posts in that threat ) between 3G and uha-4.


----------



## user02

What is the THD+N for headstage arrow?


----------



## grokit

Here's the noise specs on the "Analog AD8397 Opamp in Output Stage":
   
  Low noise
 4.5 nV/√Hz voltage noise density @ 100 kHz
 1.5 pA/√Hz current noise density @ 100 kHz


----------



## 07eclipsegt

Anyone heard when upgrades from 3G to 4G would be available?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





07eclipsegt said:


> Anyone heard when upgrades from 3G to 4G would be available?


 

 Upgrades don't happen till the product starts shipping.  So till then....


----------



## Rat Salad

Anaxilus...
   
  You look so fancy with that 4g in your signature.  I wanna be fancy too..


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





rat salad said:


> Anaxilus...
> 
> You look so fancy with that 4g in your signature.  I wanna be fancy too..


 

 Meh, it's fake.  Doesn't even have a case.  =P  Maybe I should mount it in an Altoids tin.


----------



## s1rrah

More commentary on the 4G sample board, which I as well had for about a week, recently ...
   
  To my ear, and *STRICTLY* when discussing the Shure SE535 IEM's ... I much prefer the bass boost settings of my 2G over the demo 4G amp that I had ...the 2G's bass settings are much more of what you'd call a "punchy" ... "tight" bass ... as well as being more extended and "deep" sounding. I even occasionally very much enjoy the 2G's " II " setting on certain early 80's recordings from bands such as Husker Du or XTC ... when the trend (at least among certain  post punk/"new wave" bands was towards very mid range centric studio work; the Arrow 2G's setting " II " works gloriously with these earlier recordings (but is impossible with just about anything recorded today, which we all know is not only blasted to peak levels but which also can be "over bassed" in the studio...
   
  The 4G's bass (again *ONLY* with the SE535's and to this listener's ear) is not nearly as punchy as the 2G's; this is not at all a bad sounding thing, just not as adequate with the Shure's as is the previous 2G settings. With the vast majority of IEM's, I think the 4G would be the direction to head as I think most IEM's are designed with a bit more bass emphasis than the SE530's and therefore would most likely work best with the_ more subtle_ bass settings for the 4G variant of amps.
   
  Given my druthers (which it just so happens I've been given), I would stick with the 2G's bass settings.
   
  So just a little note for any Shure SE530 owners out there ... might want to try and demo both if you have an option ...
   
  I won't comment on the treble settings except to say that it worked and that Robert clarified that this was an early rendition of the treble switch and that it would be adjusted in various ways after he received a bit more of our test comments ...
   
  And I too would second the opinion that "good things come to those who wait in pain and abject agony" ... LOL ... it's definitely worth the wait. Absolutely kick ass bit of amplifier ...
   
  Enjoy.
   
  .j


----------



## grokit

How does this new treble switch relate to the demise of the impedance switch, which coincidentally affects the treble?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





grokit said:


> How does this new treble switch relate to the demise of the impedance switch, which coincidentally affects the treble?


 

 It is not a relabel of the switch.  On default the 4G is a bit brighter and clearer than the 2G IMO.  The impedance switch adds more veil while the treble switch does boost the treble and adds brightness and clarity.  Simply put, the treble switch is the exact opposite of the impedance switch concerning sound signature.  Prior Arrows can NOT add brightness to your phones.  The 4G CAN add brightness to your phones.
   
  Quote: 





s1rrah said:


>


 
   
  x2 on the Bass.  I told Robert exactly the same thing.  I prefer the 2G BB for its tight, deep and punchy character.  If more people want that softer 'tubey' sound then that's a decision he has to make.  But count me in as an older bass boost fan.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





grokit said:


> How does this new treble switch relate to the demise of the impedance switch, which coincidentally affects the treble?


 

 For me personally, I interpreted the so called treble "affectation" that folks claim to hear with the impedance switch as simply my mind fixing on the volume drop in the overall sound more so than actually hearing that the high freq's, specifically, were truly much affected by the impedance switch.
   
  That was confusing I know but I'm working and so no time to edit/think ... 
   
  More to the point ... the treble switch on the demo board ... as I heard it ... _truly_ affected/isolated the high frequencies for the change as opposed to hitting the whole freq range with a volume change (IE > just a gain increase) ... I_ did_ think the prelim settings a bit "hot" and according to Robert, others demoing the unit echo'd this so I'm expecting a more refined, slightly more subtle high freq affect with the production units.
   
  Also ... to echo Anaxilus' comment ... I too found the overall, default sound sig of the 4G demo board to be a bit "brighter" than my 2G's default setting and pretty much spot on in regards to treble/high freq rendering (my reason for staying with 2G, really as I find it more fun to play with the impedance settings when using my full sized cans than I do a treble setting). This was especially true with the Shure SE530's which are well known for having a fairly homogenized take on high frequency performance.
   
  But that said, I'm sticking with the 2G as, quite literally, I've never heard the SE530's sound so good in the bass realm as I have with this amp... 
   
  Best!
   
  .j


----------



## Tarheels23

I'm currently using the E11's to drive my Denon D2000, which by the way is my first portable amp. I have no complains about the E11's what so ever, but after reading this Thread, I've become intrigued by the amount of raving reviews the Arrow is getting, and can't help but to think, that I'm missing out on something. I currently have the D7000 cups with the Zynsonix "Vray Prime" cabling on my D2000. I love the bass, but I feel that drum rolls aren't as controlled as I would like, when playing at a higher volume. My question is, will there be a noticeable difference between the E11 and the Arrow?


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





tarheels23 said:


> I'm currently using the E11's to drive my Denon D2000, which by the way is my first portable amp. I have no complains about the E11's what so ever, but after reading this Thread, I've become intrigued by the amount of raving reviews the Arrow is getting, and can't help but to think, that I'm missing out on something. I currently have the D7000 cups with the Zynsonix "Vray Prime" cabling on my D2000. I love the bass, but I feel that drum rolls aren't as controlled as I would like, when playing at a higher volume. My question is, will there be a noticeable difference between the E11 and the Arrow?


 

 I'm not that qualified to comment as I've never heard the E11 ... but I think it's safe to say that it would be like comparing a Nissan GTR with a Nissan Altima (I used Nissan as an example cause I'm a fan of Nissan's, no other reason). The Arrow being the GTR and the Fiio amp being the Altima. Both accomplishing what they were designed to do, most likely each doing it fairly decently but miles apart when comparing the grace and finesse with which each accomplishes said purpose.
   
  Pretty deep analogy, eh?  LOL.
   
  Anyway ... my point, of course, is that one (Fiio) is aimed at more "mass appeal" whereas the other, (arrow) is more so considered a "boutique" or "high end" design. 
   
  But that's just me making obvious assumptions (since I've not heard the E11).
   
  Perhaps somebody here has heard both and can comment?
   
  .j


----------



## Rat Salad

Nice analogy..  For those not familiar with Nissan I offer a gadget analogy. 
   
  A disposable camera vs today's point and shoot camera.  Both will take pictures and save memories, but the disposable is limited to pressing a button and will not be able to adjust to surroundings.   With current point and shoots you can turn off flash, choose modes (portrait, night shot, full auto) to improve your picture.
   
  To me, the strength of the arrow is being able to adjust amp to your source or your phones (or your music) with bass and treble and higher output (18db).  Also, it really is user focused with multiple inputs, auto off/on and trade-in benefits.
   
  With that said.. the volume knob on the Fiio is really way cool!


----------



## n-phect

whats a better path, buy arrow with ipod touch 4g, or buy new source player and continue to use e5, maybe buy an e7.  Any opinions?


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





n-phect said:


> whats a better path, buy arrow with ipod touch 4g, or buy new source player and continue to use e5, maybe buy an e7.  Any opinions?


 


  buy an arrow with a sony or cowon player =]


----------



## n-phect

Quote: 





lazysleepyboi said:


> buy an arrow with a sony or cowon player =]


----------



## Austin Morrow

Has anyone tried this and the TTVJ Slim? I would like to see a quick comparison.


----------



## ubercaffeinated

get arrow, keep itouch, use EQu = victory.
  Quote: 





lazysleepyboi said:


> buy an arrow with a sony or cowon player =]


----------



## gazar

The Arrow with dual bore reshelled (UM) Shure 530,s, sounds good to at the moment. Changes the character of them in quite a big way, Different sound altogether from the stock 530,s. I am thinking of getting my W 3.s maybe with an extra driver or 2.. I am such a gullible guy when it even involves even  5% increase in quality. Same has my home Hi-Fi .little improvements eventually become  very recognisable improvements


----------



## zoqi

How do you think the new 4g would go with the ultrasone pro 900s? 
 I am pretty sold on the amazing portability and all the good reviews for the arrow.
  Time to get rid of my E7.


----------



## Freeze

Has the 4g been released yet?


----------



## Rat Salad

Many have ordered the 4g (I ordered on 6-6).. I do not think they have started shipping yet


----------



## Freeze

What i dont understand is. Why cant you order a ready to go 3g  while the 4g is in preorder. It makes no sense. He could be selling triple the amount of product and making a much bigger net profit


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





freeze said:


> What i dont understand is. Why cant you order a ready to go 3g  while the 4g is in preorder. It makes no sense. He could be selling triple the amount of product and making a much bigger net profit


 

 Myself and a few others have heard the difference and feel it's appreciable.  The competition in the marketplace has really picked up so I'm sure Robert wants to make an appreciable splash w/ the 4G.  It's default voicing is better than just being a 3G w/ new switches.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Myself and a few others have heard the difference and feel it's appreciable.  The competition in the marketplace has really picked up so I'm sure Robert wants to make an appreciable splash w/ the 4G.  It's default voicing is better than just being a 3G w/ new switches.


 

 Seeing that the impedance switch has been eliminated do you know what the stated output impedance will be for the 4G?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Seeing that the impedance switch has been eliminated do you know what the stated output impedance will be for the 4G?


 

 I've been told and measured to confirm.  <1ohm.


----------



## grokit

Well my interest is now piqued. Hopefully Robert will continue to let existing Arrow owners "trade up".


----------



## Freeze

What I've gathered from the comments i'll boil down to this.  The headstage arrow is one of a kind as far as size weight and its ability to drive sensitive iems and higher impedance fulll sizes equally well. Does that sentence pretty much sum up the arrow?


----------



## grokit

As much as I like my Arrow, I am starting to realize that an external amp is unnecessary for IEMs. I actually prefer my 5G iMod straight out of the headphone jack with my Fx700, as opposed to the Ed8 which prefers to be driven with the Vcap dock>Arrow.


----------



## Freeze

gro i really have to disagree. The pico slim really improves the sound and the control of the volume is much finer.


----------



## grokit

I haven't heard that one but it does seem like the ideal IEM amp from what I have read. Have you heard the Slim with Fx700?


----------



## Freeze

only iem ive ever owned is the westone 3 limited edition 143/333. and the pico slim added more depth and clarity to it.


----------



## BattleBrat

Quote: 





grokit said:


> As much as I like my Arrow, I am starting to realize that an external amp is unnecessary for IEMs. I actually prefer my 5G iMod straight out of the headphone jack with my Fx700, as opposed to the Ed8 which prefers to be driven with the Vcap dock>Arrow.


 

 I've been thinking this too (except replace arrow with Leckerton UHA-4   but I own an arrow too) I'm thinking of using these customs I'm getting straight out of the Walkman X


----------



## Freeze

People do say the sony walkman x series has one of the best HP out's on the market so probly wont be so bad.


----------



## Uchiya

Has anyone paired the Arrow with the HE-500?  I'm curious on how well it performs.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> Has anyone paired the Arrow with the HE-500?  I'm curious on how well it performs.


 

 Wish you would have asked a few days ago when I had access to the HE500.


----------



## Freeze

So the website says orders going out june/july2011 yet it still says preorder and no 1 got one of these. The 4g at least.  He wont even let you order a 3g which is really strange to me considering those have been done for awhile. The forum on his site is conveniently hacked so cant even get info there. You try to sign up for the newsletter and it wont let you.  I'm sorry but the way he is doing business is really really poor. He could at least be vocal and take 5-10 mins each week to post somewhere updates on how things are going. At least show people he cares at all.
   
  I don't wanna hear the excuse he is busy making amps. No reason you cant take 5 minutes each week to type a little bit. I know he isnt a thief or anything but the way he seems to operate business has put me off from him and if he put me off im sure he put a lot of other potential customers off the arrow just by the way he operates business. You shouldnt be accepting money for pre orders 6 months+ ahead of time thats really unethical.
   
  Only reason I'm so vocal about this is i'd really like to get an arrow but when you dont have a backup amp its not an option to just give your money and go with no amp for months. This amp has so much potential. With the proper marketing and proper mass production he could go from making 10's of thousand's a year to 100's of thousands a year. It's a shame he flushes this opportunity down the drain with his poor business management. A lot of businessmen would kill for a product as good as his and he is squandering it.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





freeze said:


> You shouldnt be accepting money for pre orders 6 months+ ahead of time thats really unethical.


 

  Oh that's nothing around here.  Try 18 months or more for some of the gear on the forums.  Definitely don't go boutique when you have certain expectations.


----------



## Freeze

Well the people making the items shouldnt even say ok ill take ur money even tho i know im not gonna be done for a long time. Even if the customer offers it. That is unethical and shady
   
  The pico slim took awhile but atleast u could pre order that and then pay when hes almost ready to ship. Atleast Justin knows how to run a business right.


----------



## MrProggie

I was waiting 5 months for my 2G. It was worth the wait, but I won't bother with any updates. I'm happy with this one.


----------



## Freeze

the updates really dont seem that much different. I'd be happy with any version of the arrow. It's like straight up BS you cant order the previous gen while the 4g is being developed.


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





freeze said:


> the updates really dont seem that much different. I'd be happy with any version of the arrow. It's like straight up BS you cant order the previous gen while the 4g is being developed.


 


  i'll give you that, you really shouldn't run a business like this, BUT! You should know what you're getting into before you actually purchase it, this thread is relatively old and most stories are horror stories about the wait. So if you're complaining about the wait, all you have to do is blame yourself that you bought it because you should have known better than to listen to that june/july deadline. Why does Rob not make any 3g models? Well, he's focusing on improving the 4g model to get it ready for release. Who knows how many employees he has if any, so if he's the only one working on these amps, then of course he's just going to improve the 4g one. This stuff takes time, being an audiophile means having to wait sometimes for a good product. It's the nature of the business. You can disagree or agree with me, it doesn't matter to me. This is my opinion from my experience


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





freeze said:


> the updates really dont seem that much different.


 

 If you think an improved tonal balance isn't much of a difference then that's your prerogative.


----------



## Freeze

Than he should only take small 10% down payments to get in the pre order line. That's the ethical way to do it.


----------



## zaphod-159

isnt there any1 that can actually contact the guy? i mean he hasnt replied to emails from anyone for ages. my mind goes to dark places :X


----------



## Freeze

i havent ordered. I wont until people start receiving 4g's then i know the wait wont be more then 2-3 months.
   
  I tried to contact him multiple times. Telling him i wont be a customer unless you can tell me some kinda update on the progress and he ignored me.


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





freeze said:


> i havent ordered. I wont until people start receiving 4g's then i know the wait wont be more then 2-3 months.
> 
> I tried to contact him multiple times. Telling him i wont be a customer unless you can tell me some kinda update on the progress and he ignored me.


 


  your behavior and what you're getting from Rob in terms of updates isn't anything new. A lot of this thread is people complaining, so just get in line or stop complaining about this. We all know Rob has been a bit off in terms of responding to emails so just chill and play the waiting game. The ethical thing to do for you is not always the ethical thing for someone else. I didn't mind that Rob charged me right when i placed an order for the 3g. I knew exactly what i was getting into and it's not like he's hiding the fact that it could take longer than usual to finish. I paid him, forgot about it, and let myself wait patiently for the amp. You should do the same because at this point you're just complaining for an amp that we ALL know has been notorious for taking a long time. You're not adding anything to this discussion by complaining about communication, it has all been heard before. If you don't like the waiting or the communication you're having with Rob, then take your money and buy a different portable amp, it's the most obvious thing to do if you don't like dealing with Rob. And ethics? Are you really trying to put in what's ethical here? Maybe you're unethical for not knowing that the wait is going to be like this. Maybe you're the one who doesn't quite get it in terms of how long you have to wait and that he charges you right away. But then again ethics is not objective, it's subjective. What i think is wrong is not the same as what you think is wrong. We may have similar grounds for what being ethical is such as not killing another human being, but we obviously differ on other things such as this. Ethics is subjective as David Hume suggested over 200 years ago. So either play the waiting game like almost everyone else has or take your business somewhere else.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote:  
   
   
  x2.  There's even a dedicated bitch moan thread.  David Hume on head-fi.  Never saw that one coming.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/461344/oh-where-oh-where-has-my-slim-arrow-gone-oh-where-oh-where-can-it-be


----------



## BattleBrat

If you order you will get your amp, when you will get it is another story...
  I ordered mine and it took TWO WEEKS from order to arrival.
  BTW I might need someone's help ordering a new one, I don't think he'll sell another to me....


----------



## Freeze

He should be taking 10% down to reserve you a spot in line then requesting full payment or u lose the deposit, couple weeks before it ships. That is how an honest and ethical business is ran. Thats just a fact period not an opinion a fact. i know im right. Guess people that paid early will go to any length to defend the business practices of this guy no matter how wrong they are.


----------



## BattleBrat

To be honest I sorta trashed the arrow in a review (I can't help it if the Leckerton UHA-4 is better) and it resulted in cancelled orders and people sending arrows in for refunds and stuff, he might be tweaking the new arrow to take on the Leckerton (that's why I want a 4g so bad) I like the Arrow but I'm not a BIG fan. I AM a H U G E triad audio fan, I sent them $500 in May and they are just shipping the amps (the L3) NOW so get used to waiting my friend, it is the name of the game.


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





freeze said:


> He should be taking 10% down to reserve you a spot in line then requesting full payment or u lose the deposit, couple weeks before it ships. That is how an honest and ethical business is ran. Thats just a fact period not an opinion a fact. i know im right. Guess people that paid early will go to any length to defend the business practices of this guy no matter how wrong they are.


 


  it's not a fact, and your moaning again.......it seems we both have different mentalities when it comes to this. I think it's completely ok for him to take my money and work on my amp for 3-6 months while you think that he should be having ready products when he puts it up on his website. It's PREORDER! If you're gonna moan about this anymore, i think you're just pissing the vast majority of us off because you're expressing an OPINION, not fact! Anaxilus and I have both experienced this wait and we've read this thread long enough to know that people get really pissy over this for no good reason. The information is all there, if you choose to bitch and moan about it still, that's just your fault. And what did i say about bringing in the ethical feature in this. Ethics in this instance is subjective not objective. You can't take on a Kant way of thinking because this is subjective! There's no objectivity here because we both have different backgrounds from knowledge about this kind of business. I researched thoroughly about this amp before i bought it so i knew what i was getting into. I'm completely glad I bought it because it's amazing. You on the other hand haven't bought it, and it appears that you're going to complain here until he gets it down to under two weeks for delivery. Funny thing about that, shipping alone usually takes 2 weeks. My suggestion to you, go buy a different amp. This amp obviously isn't for you since you're not a patient person.
   
  Excuse my rudeness if it appears I'm coming off like that, you have no idea how many people moan and bitch about this amp. You don't seem like the exception so you're including in the people that need to get a better grasp over what investing your money means.


----------



## Freeze

so why cant he take 10% down to reserve a spot then when its ready to ship u pay the 90% or lose your deposit. That way its fair for both people if you screw him and back out he makes a free 10% and the people get thier place in line for a fair price. He's incredibly greedy to take 100% down for a pre order. Should be a non returnable 10% deposit.
   
  I know you wont admit it cause you can't. But what i just described is about 1000x better way for a business to run a pre order. Any properly educated person can see that the way i described a pre sale to be run is miles better than how this guy does it. Maybe he should hire someone with a business degree to help him out.


----------



## grokit

Another alternative is to make the pre-order price discounted if you want 100% up front. Take $250 instead of $300 in advance for example, that would make it more worth the wait. When they are readily available they could be full price.


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote:


freeze said:


> so why cant he take 10% down to reserve a spot then when its ready to ship u pay the 90% or lose your deposit. That way its fair for both people if you screw him and back out he makes a free 10% and the people get thier place in line for a fair price. He's incredibly greedy to take 100% down for a pre order. Should be a non returnable 10% deposit.
> 
> I know you wont admit it cause you can't. But what i just described is about 1000x better way for a business to run a pre order. Any properly educated person can see that the way i described a pre sale to be run is miles better than how this guy does it. Maybe he should hire someone with a business degree to help him out.


 

  like i said, we both have different ways of looking at this. How Rob wants to do business is up to him. He can do it however he wants since it's his company. If he starts losing customers because of how he's doing business right now, then so be it. He knows what he's doing and he's completely knowledgeable about the current situation of people who have preordered the 4g. And btw, you put 100% down, and if you back out, you email him and he just refunds you all your money. He doesn't care for keeping 10%, if you read back at least 10 pages, you'll see someone actually did that. And he started regretting it afterwards because when everyone gets their 4g, he'll be tempted to get one again. You can complain all you want, it's not going to change anything, especially complaining here isn't going to change anything. Like i said, don't buy this amp, go for something else. You neither have the point of view that most people do when they purchase this, nor do you have the patience for this amp


----------



## Freeze

just email him and u get it right back lol. bet he hasnt checked his email box in weeks


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





freeze said:


> just email him and u get it right back lol. bet he hasnt checked his email box in weeks


 


  funny thing about that, he'll return your money if you email him that you want a refund. Just go back a few pages


----------



## BattleBrat

Something I'm wondering,,,, What the HELL happened to the DAC stick?


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





battlebrat said:


> Something I'm wondering,,,, What the HELL happened to the DAC stick?


 


  haha, your guess is as good as mine!


----------



## dannytang

Quote: 





battlebrat said:


> Something I'm wondering,,,, What the HELL happened to the DAC stick?


 

  
  For that matter, what happened to the USB DAC cable? I ordered mine last August, he never sent me mine with my Arrow... Promised he would send me the updated version once it was finalized, but that was back in December... Guess I'll just have to keep waiting =)


----------



## grokit

http://www.headstage.com/Accessory/USB-DAC-Cable-with-35mm-Mini-Plug-75cm-30::10134.html?XTCsid=47fb3655eff452c001aef666c224de39


----------



## dannytang

The picture shown on the product page is of the old design. The new design is supposed to have the DAC chip at/close to the USB connector. In any case, I'm not complaining, my Arrow 2.2G sounds great with my iPod!


----------



## dannytang

Just wanted to say that I got an email from Robert today stating that my USB DAC cable is on it's way. Also, Robert says he's currently in China to make sure that the new batch of aluminum cases won't have the defect in them!


----------



## zaphod-159

: O really?


----------



## airwax

I also got an email a week ago regarding the USB DAC cable that is ready to ship. He asked me if my address was still the same so that he could send it to the same address. My Arrow 3G is for replacement, because it does not charge anymore and heats up. Now it doesn't turn on. Might be a long while before I get any those back, but I'm prepared to wait.


----------



## grokit

Have any pictures been posted of the newest USB cable?


----------



## FlySweep

I ordered the 3G in October of 2010.  Got it the first week of January 2011.  I knew it was going to be that long of a wait (per the queue #) so I wasn't caught off guard by the wait.. and the wait was definitely worth it.  Despite paying for the DAC cable to be bundled with the 3G, I didn't get it in the shipment.  Rob mentioned he was revising it when I alerted him to the fact it was missing.  Three months later, I inquired about it again as well as possibly upgrading to the 4G.. he said he can send me the old DAC cable right away or wait to send the new version with the 4G if I decided to upgrade.. didn't make much sense since I was under the assumption the old DAC cable wasn't available/being revised.  No biggie though, I said I'd like to have the new one shipped with the 4G.  Eventually, I decided not to upgrade to the 4G (yet) but never let Rob know.  Fast forward to a few weeks ago.. I get an email from Rob, out of the blue.. mentioning that that the new DAC cable is done.. he remembered that I had ordered the DAC cable back in October 2010 with my 3G and asked if I wanted a refund or the new DAC cable to be shipped to me (and apologizing for the delay).  I requested the new DAC cable so hopefully I'll be receiving it along with everyone else.


----------



## Rat Salad

Personally...
   
  I think it is more ethical to deliver on the promise of a great amp than to rush a bad amp to market.   Let him do R&D, go to China for QC and then deliver a great amp.   
   
  I do not mind that he charged all up-front, he may not have the resources or business accumen to use a deposit and then post production billing system.   I knew what I was getting into when I ordered.  To imply his process has bad ethics shows intolerance.  I picture the fact that he sweats over every detail is what is causing the wait.  
   
  If he were not a boutique item dealer and a conglomerate like Sony he would not last, but the fact is even in fairly crowded market people are waiting patiently for his amps.
   
  If for some reason you do not like his amp, my guess is you can do better than return it.   There will be plenty that will pay a premium to get a 4g and without a wait (I shoulda ordered 3).
   
  I ordered 6/6/2011 and just keep lugging my d4 around until the 4g is here.


----------



## Freeze

So did any receive the new DAC?


----------



## Freeze

man i swear this is the slowest moving forum. always takes days to get responses


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





freeze said:


> man i swear this is the slowest moving forum. always takes days to get responses


 


  you picked a bad time to ask, it's the weekend and now people are resting up for work in the morning. Now, to answer your question, no. I don't believe anyone has received it yet, I haven't at least. I'm pretty sure it was a courtesy email from Rob to notify everyone that it will be shipping in the near future. So here's to hoping that it'll come sooner than later


----------



## BattleBrat

People are awaiting the 4g Arrow's, give it some time, I'm waiting on impressions against the UHA-4 myself....


----------



## Freeze

that dac looks like a really neato option for a laptop. I might get one if its not too expensive. I have a sandy bridge hp envy 14 with the dreaded beats audio but it actually is one of the better sounding laptops ive owned. If I plug the dac stick into my laptop i'll also have to bring my pico slim along correct?


----------



## dannytang

If I'm not mistaken, the DAC stick has a built in amp. If you got the USB DAC cable, you'd need an external amp.


----------



## FlySweep

Received the USB DAC cable this morning!
   
  Like the Arrow.. it's black, well built, sleek, & unassuming.  At a glance, it looks like a plain, 24" USB cable (with a 3.5mm at one end & a slightly longer USB plug at the other).  The uninitiated would have no idea there is a DAC.  Heck, even I was surprised.  Again, very sleek.  Both end are gold plated.  The cable is solid.. USB 2.0, 28 AWG, shielded.  Strain reliefs are solid too.  As far as audio settings, max my PC showed the Arrow to be was was 16-bit/48Khz.
   
  Plugged it into my Win7 x64 laptop, it installed flawlessly on it's own.. hooked it up the Arrow & playing music through my recabled HD598's.. it simply sounds fantastic.  I used WASAPI output on both Foobar & Winamp and had no problems or errors.  More impressions & photos as time permits.. but the cable does indeed exist and it's working great.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> Received the USB DAC cable this morning!
> 
> Like the Arrow.. it's black, well built, sleek, & unassuming.  At a glance, it looks like a plain, 24" USB cable (with a 3.5mm at one end & a slightly longer USB plug at the other).  The uninitiated would have no idea there is a DAC.  Heck, even I was surprised.  Again, very sleek.  Both end are gold plated.  The cable is solid.. USB 2.0, 28 AWG, shielded.  Strain reliefs are solid too.  As far as audio settings, max my PC showed the Arrow to be was was 16-bit/48Khz.
> 
> Plugged it into my Win7 x64 laptop, it installed flawlessly on it's own.. hooked it up the Arrow & playing music through my recabled HD598's.. it simply sounds fantastic.  I used WASAPI output on both Foobar & Winamp and had no problems or errors.  More impressions & photos as time permits.. but the cable does indeed exist and it's working great.


 

 Well that's good news!


----------



## lazysleepyboi

\
   
  These are just pictures for everyone who's interested on how it looks, it looks really nice, gold plated, basically everything what FlySweep said. I haven't had a chance to test it out yet so for now, only pictures! Oh yeah, an interesting point to bring up is that it doesn't say headstage DAC cable or any kind of indication that this is from headphonia. Rob said that he ran into a few problems when it came to printing the logo on so the end result is just a black usb holding with no words
   

   
  edit: i just tried them with my Asus Eee PC, and first, it definitely works, second, of course it sounds better than the onboard soundcard. It works really flawlessly and works perfectly if you're looking for a little amp/dac combo. The whole sound spectrum seems to be tamed compared to my onboard soundcard. 9+ months of waiting, and I still think this little headstage amp shows me that it was worth it all. The wait, the money, the countless says waiting to see if it'll come in the mail, it's all worth it. But again, this isn't the amp for everyone. It definitely takes patience, but if you are capable of holding out, then this thing will really show you what it's worth. 
   
  One more thing I would like to mention about the DAC cable is that it's not for your desktop by any means. At 24'', it's far from ideal for a desktop rig. You could try using a USB extender with it which would work (most likely), but if you're trying to plug in directly from your desktop rig to this without an extender, it probably won't be long enough. In my opinion, this is more for a laptop desk where you have a laptop work station. I have yet to use this thing out in the world, but for now, I am satisfied with this purchase


----------



## grokit

That's a great form factor on that DAC cable. I would use a miniplug analog extension cable rather than a USB extension cable, it would seem that Rob wants the DAC part of the unit to plug in directly.


----------



## tankman

I don't see anything nice looking from the little dac, looks like a usb to mini cable with a bigger size pin connector. Curious how it sounds.


----------



## ChrisSC

this might be a stupid question, but could the usb on this DAC cable be reterminated so that it could work as an ipod LOD/DAC? In terms of portability, that would be something if it could replace the (somewhat) bulky algorhythm solo!


----------



## airwax

Quote: 





chrissc said:


> this might be a stupid question, but could the usb on this DAC cable be reterminated so that it could work as an ipod LOD/DAC? In terms of portability, that would be something if it could replace the (somewhat) bulky algorhythm solo!


 


  That's not possible. The Solo has a hardware (I don't know what is called) to retrieve the digital data from the ipod that will bypass the internal DAC of the ipod. The ipod does not output digital signal directly out of the dock.


----------



## Freeze

thats pretty freakin sweet, i approve


----------



## FlySweep

tankman said:


> I don't see anything nice looking from the little dac, looks like a usb to mini cable with a bigger size pin connector. Curious how it sounds.


 

 That's kind of the point.  If you're expecting blinking LEDs and a rhinestone-laden cable, you're gonna be disappointed.  Sleek, understated functionality seems to be Headstage's MO.. and the USB DAC cable achieves that in spades.
   
  It's sounds great.


----------



## cn11

I received my USB DAC cable today as well, but at work I get nuthin on my Mac. The website says it should function the same whether on Mac or PC. Hmmmmmmm.......


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> I received my USB DAC cable today as well, but at work I get nuthin on my Mac. The website says it should function the same whether on Mac or PC. Hmmmmmmm.......


 


  you should probably email Rob about that........i dont know if he looked for Mac compatibility, maybe he did?


----------



## cn11

Ugh, I hope he did... especially since it specifically states it works the same for Mac and PC on the site. The main purpose for picking it up is/was using it at my Mac work station during the day with the Arrow.
   
  Anyway, email is sent to Robert. Hope it proves to be compatible....


----------



## Freeze

how does this dac compare to the quality of a much larger dac?


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> I received my USB DAC cable today as well, but at work I get nuthin on my Mac. The website says it should function the same whether on Mac or PC. Hmmmmmmm.......


 


  I hope you and Rob can figure it out, but if not you may want to take a look at the ESI Dr. DAC Nano.  I've been using it for a while now with my Arrow and it works splendidly with my Mac.


----------



## dannytang

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> Ugh, I hope he did... especially since it specifically states it works the same for Mac and PC on the site. The main purpose for picking it up is/was using it at my Mac work station during the day with the Arrow.
> 
> Anyway, email is sent to Robert. Hope it proves to be compatible....


 


  Have you heard back from Rob yet? I haven't received my cable yet, but Mac compatibility is essential to me too.


----------



## cn11

I did actually, yes. 
   
  When you get it what you'll need to do is go into the system preferences, open sound, then it should appear as a 'usb DAC' under output devices. Simply highlight that, and it'll be rocking through the cable. It's working great now.


----------



## dannytang

Oh, so it's only a matter of changing the output device.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## MrProggie

A new portable headphone amp from China, slightly inspired by Headstage Arrow?
NEW C&C BK Portable Headphone AMP


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





> [size=small]5. imported high quality fever potential, selection of matching left and right balance, ensure the sound quality;[/size]


 
  I am so getting one.


----------



## SoulSyde

Plus it's only "the thickness of a 9-type aluminum alloy pot limit."


----------



## Freeze

LMAO the chinese straight ripped off the design. That's what they r known for tho.
   
  to hell with those commi bastards!


----------



## Hellenback

I haven't posted in sometime but I read updates now and then and feel a need to say something.
   
  If someone's not happy waiting for what I think is one of the best "cover all the bases" amps out there then quit whining, ask for a refund and wait later. I personally am still using the 1G and am very happy with it until I decide if I want to upgrade.
   
  If Robert's in China overseeing quality control and still manages to get some new cables shipped then it's obvious to me that he's concentrating on his business. I doubt accessing emails is (or even should be) a top priority unless someone wants their money back. From what I've read, no-one wanting a refund has had to wait long. Any questioning of his honesty seems ill-founded, so if you don't want to tie up your money then wait until what you want is shipping.
   
  If it were me and all I got was complaints and "when is my xxxx shipping" emails, I doubt I'd answer them either as I'd never have time to work. He doesn't post on head-fi and likely has plenty of customers who are happy to wait and not give him such grief.
   
  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## hydora

Hey, do you guys notice that there is NO Arrow in Headphonia web page anymore!!


----------



## cn11

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I haven't posted in sometime but I read updates now and then and feel a need to say something.
> 
> If someone's not happy waiting for what I think is one of the best "cover all the bases" amps out there then quit whining, ask for a refund and wait later. I personally am still using the 1G and am very happy with it until I decide if I want to upgrade.
> 
> ...


 

 Well said. I think it's a known quantity that there is a wait involved with Headstage. That's just the nature of the beast with such a small operation. It's been well documented over and over in this forum, as has the fact that it is a sure thing a new buyer will receive their amp. 
   
  Whenever I have questions for Robert after receiving a new item, he always replies within a day or two to be sure I am a happy customer and familiar with the item. For example I just got in my USB DAC cable last week, and had some trouble initially getting it to work with my Mac. He replied back same day, and his suggestion helped me get it up and running. Then I wasn't sure if it would charge the Arrow while in use with the computer... and again he answered my question within two days. He is a busy guy and quite passionate about working on new developments at the same time he's fulfilling orders. 
   
  Patience people, patience. The Arrow is worth the known wait!


----------



## brumma

Is it even possible to purchase one now? As mentioned above there is no longer a listing on the website, and I assume it is no longer possible to get the older model.


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





brumma said:


> Is it even possible to purchase one now? As mentioned above there is no longer a listing on the website, and I assume it is no longer possible to get the older model.


 


  i'm sure it'll be available for purchase later, I'm sure he's working on the 4g and it's probably taking longer than he thought it would. As soon as the first batch of 4g amps come out, I'm sure he'll open it up on his website again. You can't currently purchase the older models, unless of course, someone sells it used here on head-fi. Other than that, you can try to email Rob about ordering one


----------



## davewave

hellenback said:


> I haven't posted in sometime but I read updates now and then and feel a need to say something.
> 
> If someone's not happy waiting for what I think is one of the best "cover all the bases" amps out there then quit whining, ask for a refund and wait later. I personally am still using the 1G and am very happy with it until I decide if I want to upgrade.
> 
> ...





cn11 said:


> Well said. I think it's a known quantity that there is a wait involved with Headstage. That's just the nature of the beast with such a small operation. It's been well documented over and over in this forum, as has the fact that it is a sure thing a new buyer will receive their amp.
> 
> Whenever I have questions for Robert after receiving a new item, he always replies within a day or two to be sure I am a happy customer and familiar with the item. For example I just got in my USB DAC cable last week, and had some trouble initially getting it to work with my Mac. He replied back same day, and his suggestion helped me get it up and running. Then I wasn't sure if it would charge the Arrow while in use with the computer... and again he answered my question within two days. He is a busy guy and quite passionate about working on new developments at the same time he's fulfilling orders.
> 
> Patience people, patience. The Arrow is worth the known wait!




Thanks, guys, for the pleas for patience and sanity surrounding this fine product. 

I too had to wait (and wait) for my Arrow to arrive but i have now had it for nearly a year and it continues to amaze on a daily basis. It can be adjusted to meet the differential needs of my Ety ER-6, Westone 3, HD 25-1 II, SR60, and HD580. Power is never an isue, nor is SQ. The amp just flat out delivers. 

It's understandable in this era of immediate internet order gratification that delays in delivery can be a concern, but let's cut the guy (Robert) some slack, he's obviously got alot on his plate. 

Count me among the supporters who believe the Arrow amp is worth the wait--and a bargain compared with others in its size & weight class 
To quote the Arcade Fire song, ...
We used to wait for it. 
We used to wait for it. 
Now we're screaming sing the chorus again.


----------



## brumma

Quote: 





lazysleepyboi said:


> i'm sure it'll be available for purchase later, I'm sure he's working on the 4g and it's probably taking longer than he thought it would. As soon as the first batch of 4g amps come out, I'm sure he'll open it up on his website again. You can't currently purchase the older models, unless of course, someone sells it used here on head-fi. Other than that, you can try to email Rob about ordering one


 


  I hope so.  I've just started becoming more serious about the hobby and am looking forward to picking one up.


----------



## dannytang

Here's another picture of the USB DAC cable plugged into a MacBook along side another USB cable to give you guys an idea of how big (or small) it actually is. With the USB DAC cable plugged in, I lose access to the mini-DisplayPort which is just to the right of it. If I swapped the USB DAC cable with the external hard drive cable, then I should have access to all ports.


----------



## cn11

How do you like the sound?


----------



## dannytang

Well I've only used it for a short while for testing purposes and to check to see if the length was alright (I had Robert make mine shorter, so he made my cable 10" tip to tip). In any case, I my post my impressions after I get more time with it. But I'm not really an audiophile and don't have any other DAC to compare with so don't expect much.


----------



## proedros

is there a big difference form the 1g to the 3/4g versions ?
   
  should i upgrade ?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





proedros said:


> is there a big difference form the 1g to the 3/4g versions ?
> 
> should i upgrade ?


 
  I'd wait and see how much the trade up is but it would likely be worth it. I'd be surprised if there has not been a fair bit of R&D gone into the new 4G. You won't have to make your mind up until Headstage catches up...once the 4G is shipping the wait time should drop again (as in the past with the different gen Arrows).


----------



## Heret1c

Hi all,
   
  Just wanted to chime in as an Arrow 2g user here. Been using it since October last year and while it was a pretty long wait (pre-ordered in June / Jul) it was certainly worth the wait. I won't get into technicalities and all that (mainly cuz i suck at explaining those things) but I know good sound when I hear it and this to me, sounds awesome. While waiting for it, i had the chance to audition various Ibassos and Ray Samuels' amps at Jaben and I still prefer what my Arrow offers me. The great sound and options, portability, great build quality as well as that long lasting battery just is such a hard package to beat, IMO.
   
  I'll probably upgrade to the 4G when its ready and may even get a USB DAC cable as well, tho I'm still so in love with the 2G that I'm hard pressed to see (hear?) what improvements Robert has in store.


----------



## proedros

My 1g arrow arrived just today and i like what i am hearing at first listen
   
  my re-262 sound way better now when amped - and the j3 seems to get even better as well
   
  Huge thanx to *Bennyboy* for selling it to me for a measly *50 euros*...You rock dude !!!!


----------



## Freeze

what im wondering is if that tiny usb dac cable can really compare to a larger size dac?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





proedros said:


> My 1g arrow arrived just today and i like what i am hearing at first listen
> 
> my re-262 sound way better now when amped - and the j3 seems to get even better as well
> 
> Huge thanx to *Bennyboy* for selling it to me for a measly *50 euros*...You rock dude !!!!


 

 I miss Bennyboy.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





proedros said:


> c
> My 1g arrow arrived just today and i like what i am hearing at first listen
> 
> my re-262 sound way better now when amped - and the j3 seems to get even better as well
> ...


 

 ( Where is the "like" button? )
   
 
   
  Congrats, mate!


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





heret1c said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just wanted to chime in as an Arrow 2g user here. Been using it since October last year and while it was a pretty long wait (pre-ordered in June / Jul) it was certainly worth the wait. I won't get into technicalities and all that (mainly cuz i suck at explaining those things) but I know good sound when I hear it and this to me, sounds awesome. While waiting for it, i had the chance to audition various Ibassos and Ray Samuels' amps at Jaben and I still prefer what my Arrow offers me. The great sound and options, portability, great build quality as well as that long lasting battery just is such a hard package to beat, IMO.
> 
> I'll probably upgrade to the 4G when its ready and may even get a USB DAC cable as well, tho I'm still so in love with the 2G that I'm hard pressed to see (hear?) what improvements Robert has in store.


 

 From 2G to 4G, you will find most differences in the bass boost ... the 2G bass boost circuit is snappier, punchier while the 4G (if he's stuck with the same circuit I heard on his demo board) is smoother, more subtle .. possibly deeper but with less emphasis on "tautness" and more on "depth" ... (I personally prefer the 2G bass boost with my Shure's but can easily see how the 4G bass boost would sound better with other cans) ... 
   
  Also, as I recall ... the 3G is basically *identical* to the 2G ... with fairly unpublished but briefly mentioned changes to the amps default high freq performance ... (supposedly a bit/slightly more emphasized highs which, having moved to a 3G, recently, I can confirm) ... but even there, the difference will only be noticeable to those looking for it ... *very* subtle.
  ;
  Also, of course ... the obvious ... the 4G does away with the impedance switch in favor of a new "treble boost" switch ... again, something that most folks will appreciate or perhaps have a need for ... myself? ... I'm still a fan of the 2G/3G ...
   
  All of the above considered ... I don't think the relative differences between "G" iterations of this amp should be taken too seriously by potential buyers. Like I said ... very subtle differences ... and so ... personally ... I'd be happy using any of them.
   
  Rock.
   
  .j


----------



## Heret1c

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> From 2G to 4G, you will find most differences in the bass boost ... the 2G bass boost circuit is snappier, punchier while the 4G (if he's stuck with the same circuit I heard on his demo board) is smoother, more subtle .. possibly deeper but with less emphasis on "tautness" and more on "depth" ... (I personally prefer the 2G bass boost with my Shure's but can easily see how the 4G bass boost would sound better with other cans) ...
> 
> Also, as I recall ... the 3G is basically *identical* to the 2G ... with fairly unpublished but briefly mentioned changes to the amps default high freq performance ... (supposedly a bit/slightly more emphasized highs which, having moved to a 3G, recently, I can confirm) ... but even there, the difference will only be noticeable to those looking for it ... *very* subtle.
> ;
> ...


 
  Hmm sounds like the 3G may be more to my taste if I were to upgrade, not that I have any plans to do so now., THe 2G serves me very well, and I only ever use the bass boost with the CK10 and none of my other phones. A bit more emphasis in the high frequencies wouldnt hurt tho, but not entirely necessary to me at this point. Maybe i'll just sit back and see what other wonders Robert will pull out of the bag for the 5G instead.


----------



## proedros

36 hours later , i am officially in love with my 1G arrow
   
  it makes the re-262/J3 combo shine and at last i enjoy listening music through my 262 without feeling like the highs are veiled/muddy
   
  Good times !!!


----------



## Freeze

How does the DAC cable sound vs a normal large size transportable dac?


----------



## FlySweep

I've been listening to the EX600 w/ the Arrow+DAC a ton recently.. it's been simply fantastic. In particular, a lot of jazz-funk-fusion through Spotify and HQ MP3s. The DAC cable is quite impressive to me.  Very clean and quite detailed, IMO.  I can't give you a comparison atm cause my desktop gear is still packed up from a recent move.. but from what I remember of the mx-1, the DAC cable certainly doesn't leave me wanting.  I notice a significant improvement in soundstage, detail, and dynamics w/ the Arrow+DAC vs my onboard audio.  I've got a fairly new (and nice) laptop which has a good sounding built in DAC, but the amp is weak (like most onboard PC amps).
   
  The Arrow amp adds a good amount of soundstage to any phone and paired with the already fantastic soundstage on the EX600, it's a spectacular pairing.  Imaging isn't smeared in anyway.  The Arrow's neutral, slightly warm, smooth signature pairs well with the EX600's neutral, slightly cooler, crisp signature.


----------



## midnightwalker

Anyone can contact Robert?


----------



## phntmsmshr

Quote: 





midnightwalker said:


> Anyone can contact Robert?


 
  Well yeah, _anyone_ can contact Robert. The REAL question is: _can_ anyone contact Robert?


----------



## SoulSyde

Yes, people you can.  I reached out to him a couple of weeks ago to ask a quick question about my 3G and he got back to me pretty quickly.


----------



## rudi0504

Dear Head Fier Friends
   
  Please help me the email address from Robert from Headstage Arrow or his website
   
  i surf Google come out only Headphonia.com, nothing to see his contact address or email address.
   
  Thank you for your help
   
  Best Regards
   
  Rudi


----------



## dfkt

http://www.headstage.com/shopcontent.php?coID=7&content=Contact&XTCsid=bb5c8f74567c84cc4989aab86e410770


----------



## proedros

IS the *usb dac cable* available for sale or is still robert MIA ?


----------



## heart banger-97

Quote: 





proedros said:


> IS the *usb dac cable* available for sale or is still robert MIA ?


 


  yes it's available
 and it will be shipped so fast
 I ordered on 3th and it was shipped two days later
  in comparison to the arrow4  that I ordered 7th on April and is still in order processing


----------



## cn11

I've been enjoying mine for a while now too....


----------



## ungucpho

been waiting since april, i've sent several emails with no reply, but i told him i'd pay when its ready, so i'm not too concerned


----------



## gorgo35

Does anyone know why the Arrow Amp is no longer listed on the Headphonia website? I ordered the 4G in July and the status is still: Order Processing.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





gorgo35 said:


> Does anyone know why the Arrow Amp is no longer listed on the Headphonia website? I ordered the 4G in July and the status is still: Order Processing.


 

 My guess is he doesn't want to deal w/ some of the complaints calling out his business ethics which IMO were completely unfounded.  So rather than deal with whining and speculation he just eliminated the potential problem entirely.  Don't worry, you are going to get your amp.  Robert hasn't let anybody down yet to my knowledge.  I'm actually wondering what other changes he might have in store for the 4G.


----------



## dannytang

I agree with Anaxilus! He's probably just tired of people complaining about the wait and decided it's not worth the trouble. Once the 4G is ready, he'll probably list the Arrow again. Just be patient.
   
  About emailing Robert...
  I've sent Robert emails in the past about address changes and although he didn't email me back, he did make a note and sent my USB DAC cable to the new address without any issues.Other emails I've sent Robert have always gotten some form of reply, some times he'll give a short reply to acknowledge he knows you're waiting. Other times it'll be a longer email to explain what the latest problem in the manufacturing process. Don't worry guys, you'll get your amp once Robert is satisfied with the product, he's a perfectionist and and will perform all the minute tweaks necessary to offer you  what he and is beta testers believe to be the perfect portable amp.
   
  Keep in mind that you're not alone, we've all had to wait for our Arrows, so you're not alone. Just be patient and eventually you'll get your amp. If you can't handle the wait, then as others before me have suggested, ask for a refund - just don't regret it when others start receiving their amps.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





> Keep in mind that you're not alone, we've all had to wait for our Arrows, so you're not alone. Just be patient and eventually you'll get your amp.


 
   
  LMAO.
   
  I love being in the Arrow camp, personally. Joining Team Arrow(tm) is like being in a bad ass street gang ... to get in, you have to go through a vicious beat down but ultimately ... you get respect ... cause it's an elite little club, don't you know ... LOL ...
   

   
  I too think it would be quite unlike the dude to not deliver ... something tells me he likes his amp so much himself that it would probably kill him to not have others enjoying it too ...
   
  j.


----------



## Heret1c

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> LMAO.
> 
> I love being in the Arrow camp, personally. Joining Team Arrow(tm) is like being in a bad ass street gang ... to get in, you have to go through a vicious beat down but ultimately ... you get respect ... cause it's an elite little club, don't you know ... LOL ...
> 
> ...


 

 haha, I gotta agree with that!


----------



## grokit

My experience with Robert is that if he can answer your question he will do so. But if he doesn't have an accurate answer or you could easily find the answer yourself (ie stupid question) he won't bother to reply, and I can't say that I blame him.


----------



## proedros

i love how robert doesn't give a flying ****** about people whining and complaining.
   
  The guys is an *artist *and as far as i know artists don't have time/emergy to waste for whining,impatient crybabies.
   
  Just my 2 cents.
   
  Robert ftw.


----------



## SoulSyde

LOL!!  Admittedly, I have to agree.


----------



## proedros

usually , smart people tend to agree with me - so good for you soulsyde 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> LOL!!  Admittedly, I have to agree.


----------



## Heret1c

Quote: 





proedros said:


> i love how robert doesn't give a flying ****** about people whining and complaining.
> 
> The guys is an *artist *and as far as i know artists don't have time/emergy to waste for whining,impatient crybabies.
> 
> ...


 



 LOL, yeah i sorta sensed that from the couple of emails I exchanged with him while waiting for my Arrow last year. Thats why I didnt hassle him about why it was taking so long and honestly was very pleased with the result. The Arrow surpassed all my expectations and is to me irreplaceable, even after auditioning a few more expensive options from iBasso, Pico and RSA.
   
  Robert rocks!


----------



## ungucpho

robert was able to explain in depth the advantages of the arrow over competitors.  He may be a bit biased but he was able to understand other amps and make suggestions based on the questions that were asked


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





proedros said:


> usually , smart people tend to agree with me - so good for you soulsyde


 

 Lol, well, you're not on my ignore list...yet.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I am always accepting applicants.


----------



## gabieteo

anyways if anyone is interested in selling their Arrow 3G or sorts, shoot me a PM or a mail at gabieteo@gmail.com yeah?
  am interested to get one.. cheers


----------



## rudi0504

I want share my personal opinion

With head stage arrow 2 G plus DAC from Fostex or HM 801 plus iPhone 4 G with WAV music file

I can get the best sound for my Lcd 2 rev 1 and 2 ( I mean for portable setting )

This arrow 2G so small but can drive my LCD 2 rev 2 with very good impact in bass and mid as well .

From this experiment I have order my own head stage arrow 4 G

I wish the 4 G has the same sound zig as 2 G 

Until now in my opinion only 3 portable head amp can drive lcd2 rev 1 and rev 2 in very good sound 

STEPDANCE I

RSA RS 71 B

Head stage arrow 2G


----------



## PANGES

Any chance anyone with an Arrow G1 knows if we can still get them warrantied? Or if you have had them warrantied? Recently, one of the inputs have been loose, and if i touch the LOD, it'll lose sound in the left channel. So I started plugging the input from my LOD into the input on the end of the Arrow, and now I don't have sound coming from my left channel either. Is there a way I can just fix this myself? Or should I try and get it warrantied (if I even can.) I got my arrow when they first came out. =/


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





rudi0504 said:


> I want share my personal opinion
> 
> With head stage arrow 2 G plus DAC from Fostex or HM 801 plus iPhone 4 G with WAV music file
> 
> ...


 

 I have to agree ... I listened to some LCD 2's extensively with the Arrow (2G) and was really blown away. I'm telling you ... that bass boost is magic on certain cans (especially with the K701's which actually became something I could enjoy once the bass boost was turned on.
   
  From what I understand ... there *is* going to be a slightly more layed back tone to the 4G bass boost but I haven't talked to Robert since helping to beta test his 4G production board ... and at the time (bout two months ago?) ... he was really curious about which bass I preferred ... so who knows what he's going with. 
   
  I'm sticking with the current 3G I have as it has the same bass boost as the 2G (my first Arrow was 2G).
   
  But yeah ... the LCD 2's were awesome with it.
   
  Rock.
   
  j.


----------



## SoulSyde

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> I'm telling you ... that bass boost is magic on certain cans (especially with the K701's which actually became something I could enjoy once the bass boost was turned on.


 


  I wish I hadn't sold my K240 MKIIs before I purchased the Arrow.  I really loved their soundstage and the added bass would have made them a good all around headphone to play with.  Oh well, there's likely going to be another AKG can in my future.  Ugh, this darn addictive Head-Fi obsession hobby.


----------



## sluker

Subscribed.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





panges said:


> Any chance anyone with an Arrow G1 knows if we can still get them warrantied? Or if you have had them warrantied? Recently, one of the inputs have been loose, and if i touch the LOD, it'll lose sound in the left channel. So I started plugging the input from my LOD into the input on the end of the Arrow, and now I don't have sound coming from my left channel either. Is there a way I can just fix this myself? Or should I try and get it warrantied (if I even can.) I got my arrow when they first came out. =/


 
   
  lol. I fixed it. It was the most stupidly easy fix ever... 
   
  I took the case off to take a look inside, and what was causing the sound to cut out was that the module to for the inputs were lifting slightly when i pushed on my LOD. When it sits flat with the PCB, it's fine. What I ended up doing was just taking some thick 3m tape and placing a small piece on top of each input module and put the case back on. Now no matter how I wiggle the LOD, I can't get it to lose sound anymore. Good as new! lol. 
   
  The problem now, is that I've already ordered a Practical Devices XM6. *facepalm* I'm just going to wait for it to arrive, and I'll keep whichever one sounds better. lol.


----------



## cn11

Oh nooooooo!! I need to hear about the XM6 like I *need a hole in the head*! I've been eying that amp for a while now.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





cn11 said:


> Oh nooooooo!! I need to hear about the XM6 like I *need a hole in the head*! I've been eying that amp for a while now.


 


  When in doubt, just do it.


----------



## brink

Subscribed


----------



## Uchiya

So another month has nearly passed.  Mums the word?


----------



## Rat Salad

Nope... ordered early June so only going on 4 months for me.. :0P


----------



## heart banger-97

I ordered the usb dac cable on 03.09.2011 , and it arrived 3 days ago
but my arrow is still in order processing I ordered it on 07.04.2011 :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


----------



## cn11

Plug the DAC cable into another amp if you have one...... I use it sometimes with my uHA-120, to great effect.
   
  Hope you get the Arrow soon though.


----------



## airwax

my arrow had actually been not working anymore. One day, it just didn't charge. If I plug the charger, the unit just heats up. I don't know when i'll be getting a replacement, it's quite hard to get a reply from rob ert

Sent from airwax' tab


----------



## obwilton

I have the same or similar problem.  My unit won't stay charged.  The light sequence will indicate that the unit charges and then if I use the amp the unit will work for an hour or less.
   
  If I wait in between the charging of the unit and use later,  the charge lasts less time.  I fully charged the amp yesterday and then it played for less than 5 minutes this morning.
   
  I just recently replaced the battery on this fairly new amp in case this is the problem, but no luck.
   
  I have emailed Robert before and received a reply (for the first amp I had that had a different problem with).  I have received no replies for the last two emails directly asking him for his help with this problem with no reply.
   
  Basically I have a non-functioning unit and have asked the manufacturer for help and or advice with no reply.


----------



## audiogamma

Ordered in July as well and will no replies to email.. ordering a TTVJ instead.


----------



## deepanshu830

can anybody compare arrow with voyager??


----------



## dfkt

The Voyager is huge like a fridge, hisses with sensitive phones, and has some weird opamp oscillations with some IEMs. Personally, I would take the FiiO E6 over the Voyager any time... and the Arrow too.


----------



## feliks

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> The Voyager is huge like a fridge, hisses with sensitive phones, and has some weird opamp oscillations with some IEMs. Personally, I would take the FiiO E6 over the Voyager any time... and the Arrow too.


 
  3g - you're talking about this version?
 What is your impression of a pico SLIME?

 Thanks!!


----------



## gebo

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> The Voyager is huge like a fridge, hisses with sensitive phones, and has some weird opamp oscillations with some IEMs. Personally, I would take the FiiO E6 over the Voyager any time... and the Arrow too.


 
  It surprises me, that you would take the FiiO E6 over the Arrow any time. Could you please explain your evaluation in a few words?
  Thank you!


----------



## dfkt

Heh, sorry, that was badly worded - I meant I would take the Arrow and/or FiiO over the Voyager any time. 
   
  Of course the Arrow is a better amp than the FiiO, more powerful and more versatile. I just wanted to make a point that the $20 FiiO is actually a better device than the pricy Voyager.


----------



## Xcellent

This is maybe a bit offtopic, but is there any news about the Pico Power Portable Amp?


----------



## Vonx

Sorry if someone already asked for this comparison, but can someone compare the TTVJ to the arrow in terms of sound signature?
   
  Also, how would you characterize the arrow itself? (Warm, bright, sterile, etc.....)


----------



## pseudohippy

Well perhaps if you are down at a coffee shop here in Kent Ill let you listen to my 3G for a while.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





vonx said:


> Sorry if someone already asked for this comparison, but can someone compare the TTVJ to the arrow in terms of sound signature?
> 
> Also, how would you characterize the arrow itself? (Warm, bright, sterile, etc.....)


 

 I would characterize the Arrow as extremely neutral, but not in a sterile way.


----------



## obwilton

Robert replied to one of my emails (finally). He said that he would replace my amp when he is done with the next batch of amps.  Now the waiting begins (just like last year at this time).


----------



## Hellenback

I'm still happy with my 1G!


----------



## Heret1c

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I'm still happy with my 1G!


 


  And me, my 2G!


----------



## feliks

I did not like 2G. Вut I love my 3G! Maybe because the different opamp were used


----------



## ldaustin

The Arrow is back up on the Headphonia website now indicating it will ship in December 2011.  It's hard to know what to expect.


----------



## obwilton

That's good news, and thanks for posting that.  However, by previous experience that probably means my replacement amp after that.  January even would be good.


----------



## proedros

any news on whether we can trade a 1G for a 4G ?


----------



## smallberries

Hah. Apparently, you can't even trade cash for a 4G.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





smallberries said:


> Hah. Apparently, you can't even trade cash for a 4G.


 

 That is pretty funny.  =P


----------



## airwax

Indeed. This thread is like the waiting thread. We knew about it all along but still get persuaded to buy it.


----------



## Heret1c

Quote: 





smallberries said:


> Hah. Apparently, you can't even trade cash for a 4G.


 


  OUch! LOL


----------



## Party

Hey guys how much more power does the Arrow have/add to the cowon J3 (29mW+29mW (16ohm earphones)...
  Just want to know because everyone says the cowon J3 has highoutput already and I just wanted to know how much the Arrow "AMPED" the output...
  Thanks


----------



## smallberries

Quote: 





ldaustin said:


> The Arrow is back up on the Headphonia website now indicating it will ship in December 2011.  It's hard to know what to expect.


 

 Well... if your experience ends up being like mine, what you can expect is that Robert will bank your pre-payment, then mark your order as shipped and complete (but will not notify you of this, so you'll need to keep checking your account page on headphonia), then will ignore any email asking what's up with that. Actually shipping a product does not appear to be part of the completing-the-order process there at Headphonia.


----------



## Rat Salad

I asked Santa for a Arrow 4g so I could cancel my order with Robert.   Santa said the elves that make the 4G are off in China on a business trip, then he cranked his TTVJ and laughed with a hardy HO-HO-HO.  Or maybe it was a ha ha ha ha ha ha.... I had a lotta egg nog


----------



## smallberries

Well.. at least Santa is answering his email!
  Were you successful in cancelling your order
  and getting a refund?


----------



## Rat Salad

I actually kept the order, after all I haven't seen that money in 6 months now anyway so I will wait it out.


----------



## evolutionx

I will start believing in Santa Claus if mine get shipped by Christmas........


----------



## fray92

Anyone still get the full specification of the Headstage Arrow 3g that was posted on the headphonia homepage?
  I tried to search on google but nothing come out, the closest is from ABI but it is not full.


----------



## lazysleepyboi

Quote: 





fray92 said:


> Anyone still get the full specification of the Headstage Arrow 3g that was posted on the headphonia homepage?
> I tried to search on google but nothing come out, the closest is from ABI but it is not full.


 


  http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dannytang.ca%2FArrow_Manual.pdf&h=MAQGqHQNfAQE7cXbF0TdSa3xJQmAXQfsD2naNxWisQKhNUQ
   
  not my link, someone else on the facebook page linked it. I haven't looked at it, but it should help you, i thin k


----------



## dannytang

That link was actually posted by me. It's the Arrow Manual, but it does list the changes from version to version but not it's specs per se.
  
  Quote: 





lazysleepyboi said:


> http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dannytang.ca%2FArrow_Manual.pdf&h=MAQGqHQNfAQE7cXbF0TdSa3xJQmAXQfsD2naNxWisQKhNUQ
> 
> not my link, someone else on the facebook page linked it. I haven't looked at it, but it should help you, i thin k


----------



## fray92

What i need to know is the amount of dB of the bass boost function of the 3g and 4g.
  As i don't really care about the treble switch on the 4g, what will decide which generation of the arrow is for me is the bass boost switch.
  Btw, have anyone of you experience hiss with the arrow when using a pair of low impedance and high sensitivity IEM?
  The IEMs I currently own are IE8 and Westone 4, and the UM Miracle is expected to come next month.
  Both of them are pretty sensitive and i hate hiss.
  Will the impedance switch help removing the hiss (if there is any...) without altering the sound?


----------



## s1rrah

The 3G bass is tighter, more punchy. The 4G bass is more smooth/subtle. I prefer the 3G flavor, personally as it works so well with my Shure IEM's (which benefit hugely from the added punch). 
   
  I don't think you can compare them in a "db" scenario as the entire tone is different. I've listened to both quite a bit and can say the bass boost is entirely different from 3G to 4G. 
   
  Don't know about the hiss question, though. Never heard such via my own listening. 
   
  .j


----------



## fray92

I already read about the signature of the bass boost swith of the 3g and 4g somewhere.
  Just wonder about the dB, just curious, u know ^^


----------



## smallberries

I've spent a coupla days with my new Arrow 4G. Perhaps I have tin ears... with all eq and effects zeroed, I hear no difference with the amp inline. This is out of an iPod shuffle and a Macbook Pro, and into AKG 702's and Rain 9mm earphones. Listening to old and new recordings of acoustic jazz at a variety of volume levels. That's not to say things don't sound great -- just that they already sounded very clean and detailed without the amp, and the amp added no coloration (good or bad)
   
  Meanwhile, the coloration you can add with switch settings is generally subtle and agreeable:
   
  The bass boost is smooth and wide, and is a nice addition for both headphones, especially at low volume levels.
   
  The treble boost is a nice addition for the 702's, and made a nylon-stringed guitar sparkle in just the right way.
   
  The crossfeed is very subtle, but welcome on my mid-century jazz recordings where instruments tend to be hard-panned.
   
  The combination of switched gain settings and a volume knob is very convenient.
   
  Output to two headphones at once sounded great, and is a really nice feature.
   
  I'm still debating whether to hang onto this thing. It is a very attractive, very cool device, no question. Maybe I needed hungrier phones to hear a bigger difference.


----------



## Anaxilus

If you can't hear a difference amp or not (which is a good sign for the Arrow 4G) then perhaps you should look to a better source as it appears the 702 and Arrow are already giving you everything those sources can deliver.  
   
  Btw, you are double amping so the Arrow cannot pass through any more detail or information because it's already choked by the shuffle and Macbook Pro.  What you are listening to is the amplifier sections of those devices, not the Arrow.  If you have $20 in your wallet and I give you a bigger wallet, $100 won't just appear because you have a bigger wallet.  You'll need to find that $80 difference somewhere otherwise the bigger wallet is pointless.
   
  You must listen at low volumes too as I find the idea of the shuffle driving the 702 to the same levels and dynamics as the Arrow perplexing otherwise.


----------



## smallberries

Double-amping isn't automatically suspect. The Arrow will load the output of the player differently than the headphone would, and eliminate that possible source of coloration. Yes, science demands that when evaluating the Arrow for coloration we supply it with a golden line-level signal. But the Arrow was intended for making your underpowered portable player sound better, portably, so that's a more relevant evaluation setup for me.
   
  I was very surprised at how good the 702's sounded straight out of the iPod shuffle. I had never even bothered to listen critically to that setup, because it was so obviously going to suck. But, it doesn't, at my listening levels (which are very far from head-rattling, but do reproduce faint soundstage cues from the recordings)


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





smallberries said:


> But the Arrow was intended for making your underpowered portable player sound better, portably, so that's a more relevant evaluation setup for me.


 

 That's one possibility.  For some of the rest of us it's to replace not only the underpowered integrated amp sections in portable DAPs but also to improve source transparency w/ better topology and components.  The intent of the Arrow is to do all these things in a ridiculously slim and pocketable package not just one of them.
   
  The double amping comment was obviously about transparency and resolution wrt sounding 'better', not damping factor and output impedance.  I don't imagine the 702 at 62 ohms would have much of a problem w/ the shuffle and macbook in that regard.  It also has a pretty flat impedance curve and 105dB/mW.  Btw, have you tried the gain settings and compared?


----------



## s1rrah

I think you perfectly described what the Arrow amp (or any decent headphone amp for that matter) is intended to do...especially the fact that it simply amplifies the signal sent to it without adding anything or detracting from it. Your comments about the varied "features" of the Arrow amp are also good as for myself, these are the items which please me the most about the Arrow..the fact that for any given track, I can add bass or crossfeed or simply leave everything turned off. I especially enjoy the dual bass boost settings (mine is the "thumpier" 2g/3g variety) as my Shure SE535's benefit HUGELY from the first setting. And though I hardly use it at all, the 2nd bass setting is a life saver when listening to almost *all* early 80's indie/punk/post punk sort of stuff (Husker Du, Killing Joke, etc.) where the tendency, for whatever reason, was to mix very bass neutral.
   
  Also, your comment about "hungrier" cans is also good and I think on point. Try some HD650's straight out of your iPod and then try the same cans out of the iPod/Arrow combination.  ... the difference would be dramatic.
   
  Best...
   
  .joel
   
  Quote: 





smallberries said:


> I've spent a coupla days with my new Arrow 4G. Perhaps I have tin ears... with all eq and effects zeroed, I hear no difference with the amp inline. This is out of an iPod shuffle and a Macbook Pro, and into AKG 702's and Rain 9mm earphones. Listening to old and new recordings of acoustic jazz at a variety of volume levels. That's not to say things don't sound great -- just that they already sounded very clean and detailed without the amp, and the amp added no coloration (good or bad)
> 
> Meanwhile, the coloration you can add with switch settings is generally subtle and agreeable:
> 
> ...


----------



## smallberries

Anaxilus, s1rrah:
   
  I believe we're actually in agreement here. My Arrow 4G is doing
  that ideal amplifier thing of being "wire with gain". I mentioned
  the unchanged sound because I'd seen other descriptions praising
  a holy new level of detail or tubelike warmth (after it "burns
  in"!) or wider soundstage or whatever, and it sounded like
  wishful listening to me. The Arrow is answering the question
  of "where's the weak link in my signal chain" by exactly
  reproducing the good and bad (mostly good) in my source signal, 
  as realized by the phones I have.
   
  My vague threat to return it wouldn't be because of any failing
  of the Arrow as an amplifier. Rather, I don't intend to upgrade
  the signal source, so the Arrow is superfluous in this setup with
  neutral settings. But I was as interested in the EQ, crossfeed,
  power mangement, and dual output as I was the gain structure. So
  I am of course keeping it!


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





smallberries said:


> Anaxilus, s1rrah:
> 
> I believe we're actually in agreement here. My Arrow 4G is doing
> that ideal amplifier thing of being "wire with gain". I mentioned
> ...


 

 Good choice. While I agree with everything you have said about it being transparent, once you spend an extended amount of time with the various settings you will have a tough time going back without them. Especially if you find a combo you really like. This thing is built to last IMO (I hope at least) and you never know what the future holds. You may one day change your mind about changing your source. Add on top the fact they are hard to get your hands on and hold a good value. I think I will pass mine down to my son in 17 years lol.


----------



## truckdriver

I jumped on a 6% home mortgage rate cuz it was the lowest I'd seen. That was 10 years ago and the rate has not been higher since.
   
  I waited 7 months for my Arrow. Now I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop (so to speak) and Robert announce that Walmart bought his amp design and will sell Arrow 4Gs for a dollar a piece (placing them along side the gum at the checkout isle).
   
  Just kidding....I think.


----------



## varyV

Finding the perfect balance for a particular pair of IEMs is one of the best things about this amp. I have a pair of miracles that I sometimes find lacking in bass qty. Likewise, My re-272s sometimes need more juice than regular earphones. The ability to tweak particular elements in the sound signature on a pair of earphones that are otherwise flawless to you makes this amp irreplaceable. Because it doesn't color the sound, you can retain the original sound of the IEMs while still making modifications to the sound. Pretty ******* impressive when you consider the fact that it is not much thicker than an ipod touch and sits almost flush with it. That way, you're not carrying setups that look like miniature I.E.Ds through airport security.
   
  EDIT: Gave the amp a good 40-50 hrs for an initial burn in, and any elements of "harshness" have disappeared. The amp is smooth, and very lively. The sound does not get colored when keeping the amp at a 0 setting on all the eq knobs. The guitar distortions are a lot improved on my Miracles and sound very gritty. Bass goes deeper and hits harder. If you use the bass control switch, it transitions smoothly over the three settings without distortion, even on the heaviest-on-bass-tracks. Personally, I prefer the I setting. Treble has a very nice detail, but not to the point of being exhaustive from being too noticeable. If you love treble, the II second should be more than enough to satisfy you (even then, it doesn't overwhelm the rest of the frequency). I like having a little more than normal amount of treble and the 0 setting kept me satisfied. Tracks recorded live have a distinct "3D" quality to them and if you close your eyes, you can visualize the band in front of you, the instruments in their own separate orientations.
   
  Anyone have any info on how many hours the battery is supposed to last on a charge?


----------



## Heret1c

Quote: 





varyv said:


> Anyone have any info on how many hours the battery is supposed to last on a charge?


 


  I use my Arrow 2G at work for 5-6hrs daily and it can last up to 2weeks. Assuming a 5-day work week and i don't use them at all on the weekends, that's up to 50hrs battery life. This is just a rough calculation of course.


----------



## cjburr

Well, 152 pages and the only thing folks seem to not like about this amp is the wait to get one. Placed my order today, let the wait begin. Thankfully I'm in Afghanistan so there is plenty to keep my mind off the wait.....then I get to wait for it to make it from my home to here.....sighhhhhhhh, one more thing to look forward to.

Thanks to all for their comments here, this sight has helped me make informed decisions about my gear and what I have gotten so far has exceeded my expectations. My M50's have been great for practicing my guitar and the Shure 535's have served me well here in the sandbox. Looking forward to more sonic bliss in my off time here.


----------



## Uchiya

What is the current wait time?


----------



## rudi0504

On 06.02.2012 i have received my arrow 4 g , after long wating time exactly 5 month since 06.09.2011.
   
  My First comparison arrow 3 G vs Arrow 4 G
   
  Source : Iphone 4 S
   
  DAC : Fostex Hp !
   
  Amp : Arrow 3 G and Arrow 4 G
   
  Iem : AKG K 3003 , JH 16 PRO, SM3 V 2, UM 3 X , Shure SE 535 LE Red Color for Asia.
   
  Headphone : LCD 2 Rev 2 , LCD 3 , HD 800 , T 1 , ATH W 1000 X , HD 650 , New bagde Grado MS 2 I 
   
  Cable : Mini to Lod Whiplash Elite Twag II
             Mini to Lod Van Den Hul Tone Arm Cable DIY
   
  Music : Jazz ,  Blues, Audiophile Songs , Classical Music
   
  Format : WAV
   
  Setting : all in Zero Position
   
  Sound Quality :
   
  High : my Arrow 4 G more extended and Clean high compare my Arrow 3 G
   
  Mid : my Arrow 4 G more Sweet , Lush and forward compare to my Arrow 3 G
   
  Bass : My Arrow 3 G Bass Impact is better , but my Arrow 4 G The Bass Quality is better and Clean
   
  Separation : My Arrow 4 G has Better separation compare to my Arrow 3 G
   
  SoundStage : My Arrow 4 G has better wide Soundstage and layering in the Depth compare my Arrow 3 G.  
   
  Overall : The Sound Quality from my Arrow 4 G is better tha my Arrow 3 G, more detail and Music separation also better, that i can feel the
   
               The Sanger in Front from the Stage , follow by Instrument and The Drum / Bass at last .
   
               The Arrow 4 G is very good for all rounder Portable Iem and Cans 
   
  Note : For better Sound Quality i added Fostex HP 1 as DAC for my Iphone 4 S.
   
  This is my Personal impression.


----------



## shotgunshane

^ Thanks for the impressions.  Would you mind commenting on bass and treble boost?  Also how does transparency compare between the 2 models?


----------



## rudi0504

```

```



shotgunshane said:


> ^ Thanks for the impressions.  Would you mind commenting on bass and treble boost?  Also how does transparency compare between the 2 models?




The Arrow 4 G is more transparance compare to arrow 3 G 

For long term music is no fatiguing with arrow 4 G .

Arrow 3 G bass boost hat more bass impact than my arrow 4 G 

Arrow Bass boost can improve the Bass Quanity very well and also the treble boost is very good 

You can set to Ii , with no distorsion in high volume .

The bass quantity is not so much different between the two arrow , but the bass quality on arrow 4 g is more detail and clean .

I hope this can help you to answer your. Question above .


----------



## shotgunshane

Quote: 





rudi0504 said:


> Code:
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, thanks!


----------



## Vuk33

Does anyone know the wait time if I were to order today? I was planning on purchasing the arrow but I think ill pass if wait is longer than a month.


----------



## Fusillade

Has anyone else been having their Arrow randomly powering down? When I tested mine a few days ago (after a full charge), I hooked it up to my K420s and was enjoying a song by the Bill Evans Trio - when suddenly the Arrow cut out. Nothing - for at least several minutes. I then unplug all the cables, put 'em back in again and then the amp works fine. This happened twice in the same song, so I decided to switch to my other headphones. They worked completely fine, no problems (Pro 900s, by the way). I'm currently not in a state to listen to music at the moment, but was just wondering if anyone else has had a problem like mine.


----------



## Anaxilus

If the song has a long pause in the piece I believe it thinks the amp is inactive and powers down.  I recall another person had a similar issue w/ a classical piece of music once long ago?


----------



## grokit

I'm starting to wonder if Robert will allow "trade-ups" again this time...


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm starting to wonder if Robert will allow "trade-ups" again this time...


 


  I asked the same Q, just out of interest, as I've no intent on trading my 2.2g anytime soon and he responded:
   
  "The upgrades will be available when we have enough stock, I will inform you then."
  That could be anyones guess...!
   
  Edit: Robert responded again saying in 2-3 months time he'll be offering upgrades for around $40. Think I'll wait for a 5g..!


----------



## Fusillade

anaxilus said:


> If the song has a long pause in the piece I believe it thinks the amp is inactive and powers down.  I recall another person had a similar issue w/ a classical piece of music once long ago?





I don't think so - it wasn't during a pause, I'm wondering if its because one of my cables for some reason got loose? I just tried it again, and during the exact same song it powered off again! Strange... I'm really not sure what's causing the problem, as the rest of the album runs completely fine.


----------



## Vuk33

Has anyone tried this amp with the hifiman he-500? How do they pair?


----------



## cjburr

Quote: 





vuk33 said:


> Does anyone know the wait time if I were to order today? I was planning on purchasing the arrow but I think ill pass if wait is longer than a month.


 


  I ordered mine 5 days ago and received an email from Robert today saying my amp will ship on the 10th of March 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am stoked as that is when I return home for vacation from Afghanistan, this means when I have to go back it will be with sonic nirvana in my pocket!!!


----------



## Andyzz

My amp wont charge  
  or at least the green light isnt turning on.


----------



## grokit

If your battery has failed I think Robert sells replacements for a reasonable price if it's out of warranty. How long have you had yours?


----------



## zappp

Arrow 3G with Sony PFR-V1 is nice. 
   
  Don't forget to install the foam sleeves on the bass ducts, to carefully (!!!) adjust their positioning into the ear canal and to set bass boost to "II". Still the result is on the lean side, like some faved nearfield monitors, but very acceptable. 
   
  I just received the Sonys and may add some further comments later on. I guess that there are ways to improve the bass by modding the foam sleeves. The system is open, i.e. not usable with other persons being present in the same room. On the other hand, the open design provides for a more open sound stage and eliminates "hot ears" which are common with conventional, circumaural headphones.
   
  The PFR-V1 is a very weird looking set of ear speakers ("personal field speaker system" as per Sony lingo), discontinued by Sony and now available at a more acceptable price than the original, nothing less than hideously shocking $500 MSRP.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





zappp said:


> Arrow 3G with Sony PFR-V1 is nice.
> 
> ...
> 
> The PFR-V1 is a very weird looking set of ear speakers ("personal field speaker system" as per Sony lingo), discontinued by Sony and now available at a more acceptable price than the original, nothing less than hideously shocking $500 MSRP.


 

 I demo'd a pair of those once at Fry's ... I was sort of intrigued by the possibilities but really underwhelmed at the unamped "limpness" of the PFR-V1's, just too weak all around with no real presence ... and, of course, made worse by the fact that I was standing in Fry's Electronic's at the time; I'd really like to hear a pair with the Arrow amp. I might just try and hunt down a pair if they're reasonably priced.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> I demo'd a pair of those once at Fry's ... I was sort of intrigued by the possibilities but really underwhelmed at the unamped "limpness" of the PFR-V1's, just too weak all around with no real presence ... and, of course, made worse by the fact that I was standing in Fry's Electronic's at the time; I'd really like to hear a pair with the Arrow amp. I might just try and hunt down a pair if they're reasonably priced.


 

 I had the exact same experience.  Pretty sure they were amped or decently driven out of the demo board.


----------



## FlySweep

vuk33 said:


> Has anyone tried this amp with the hifiman he-500? How do they pair?


 

 I have had the the Arrow 3G for quite some time (since it was released) & bought the HE-500 a few weeks ago.. both pair very well.
   
  The Arrow is very transparent & uncolored.  It drives the 500 admirably (providing better dynamics & control).  With the gain set at I, I have the volume level near maxed to attain the desired listening level (which I'd consider average).. at gain II, the volume pot is at 50%.


----------



## smallberries

Quote: 





andyzz said:


> My amp wont charge
> or at least the green light isnt turning on.


 

  
  I just exchanged a 4G because it had no green LED (and the red one did not flash when the battery was low). Other than that, it charged just fine and sounded great. There was about a week of email and experiments to verify the behavior, and a week's wait for the replacement amp.


----------



## Matter

Hi, I just found this forum and I am looking to purchase the 4G and just wondering if anyone is able to give me a quick summary of its sound signature?
  I'm looking for something uncolored and transparent because my CIEM is rather warm on its own.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## mudo

Even there are a few differences among versions, this should give you an idea:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/products/headstage-arrow-12he/reviews
http://anythingbutipod.com/2010/04/headstage-arrow-12he-headphone-amplifier-review/
http://www.gadgets07.com/earphone-review/headstage-arrow-portable-headphone-amplifier-review.html


----------



## Matter

Has anyone compared the Leckerton uha-4 with the 4G?
  Which is better?


----------



## DNZGamer

Totally in love with this amp! Solid, well built and as thin as my iPod Nano. The bass boost is terrific, it feels like a native increase in bass rather than the Fiio E11 which really muddied the music when I turned on bass and lost a lot of detail even though it was a lesser boost. I don't know why but I turn on treble boost when I use it with my RS1i... jeez it just sounds so much more energetic and lively. Do I have a treble addiction? I couldn't be happier with this upgrade. Mid range and treble are both more impactful and the soundstage is noticeably wider, especially with my classical and progressive rock. 

 Haven't used crossfeed yet. I really don't know why I would want to. What does it fix? Extreme separation in the track? Usually it is intentional, isn't it?
   
  I am also quite thankful that I paid for it when it was $325. Maybe he has plenty of stock now but I was assured a one week delivery and that's exactly what I got. Kept hearing horror stories about waiting months for this thing. 
   
  Sry, I was a little shaky on that first picture. Wanted to upload a clear labeling for people to see the buttons and functions.


----------



## mudo

I agree, the Arrow's bass-boost is much cleaner and non-intrusive. In comparison FiiO E5 bass boost is really bad. That's good info to help people deciding about getting and Arrow (but not a fair battle, the Arrow is *a lot* more expensive).


----------



## DNZGamer

I was mostly comparing it to the E11 but yes, it is extremely unfair. They are more than $200 apart. I was just pleasantly surprised by the dramatic difference in the quality of these two amps. With the E11, I pretty much never use the Bass Boost at all. The distortion it creates on all ranges pretty much makes it unusable. I had no idea what to expect with the Arrow but its bass boost is so natural I just couldn't help mentioning this.
   
  Its really strange, I find myself leaving both treble and bass boost on at level 2 for most of my listening now. Seems like overkill but it honestly makes the music sound much more... musical? Maybe I really love turning my Grados more towards a V signature. 

 Strangely enough, I find the bass boost not enough for my UM3x. I really want more bass... am I a bass head? Maybe I need an Ultrasone Pro 900 soon.


----------



## mudo

I like the level 1 bass boost enabled for my "woodyfied" Grado 225i, but disabled with the Senns HD650. Even with the Phonak PFE I find it best with the bass boost disabled. PFE with grey filters have a nice punchy bass when connected to the Arrow. It was a big surprise finding this out, they seem to fit very well with the amp.
   
  On the other hand, I understand what you mean about the treble boost: I like it enabled with the HD650 and sometimes even with the PFE. Grados usually are too harsh for my ears so I appreciate the smooth treble of the Arrow to make them more relaxing.


----------



## DNZGamer

Today I finally tested how "powerful" this amp is... I drove an HD800 at my local store with this thing.

 Lets just say on the lowest gain setting, you will have no trouble achieving ear splitting volumes... I don't know if the HD800 has a higher impedance than the HD650 but I would certainly assume so. Very impressed!


----------



## Brooko

Arrived today - obligatory photos ....... click for larger images
  
 

 


  
 Compared to a touch G4 (without case)
 


  
 And velcroed to the Touch with low profile LOD and SE535 LE.
 

 


  
 I'm going to switch the velcro out for  double sided tape I think - so it is even more slim.  After initial trials I doubt I'll be removing it from the Touch anyway - it really sounds amazing.  Very clean, very dynamic.
  
 Their is an imbalance at the very bottom of the pot - and with my SE535 LE being very sensitive, it 'just' comes into play for really low volume.  However for my normal listening (so far) I narrowly avoid the imbalance - I have very slight hearing loss (and permanent low level tinnitus) from my younger days - so this may be a factor for me personally.  Fortunately I also have a volume attenuator that I can use to avoid the imbalance if I desire, and I may use this as well.
  
 I've also tried the Arrow with my 325i (woodied), HD600, and Beyer DT880 (600 ohm).  It drives all of them quite admirably - and I LOVE the pairing with all of the full sized cans.
  
 Will comment more as I get better used to it.


----------



## FlySweep

Nice impressions.. I've had the 3G for quite some time & more recently got an HD580 (300 ohm).. these lovely Senn phones absolutely SING when paired with the Arrow.  The lowest gain setting drives them plenty loud with the pot turned up a little over 60%.  They sound very clean, trasparent, and neutral.


----------



## Brooko

I think that's why my initial impressions have been so positive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Really clean and transparent - and enough power to let the headphones voice their own sonic signatures.  The Beyers really surprised me - the dynamics are almost as good as the NFB-12 - I didn't expect that!
   
  Not sure about the crossfeed yet - it is very subtle - will have to try it on a couple of recordings I have which are very 'stereo'.  I like the bass boost - not so sure about the treble boost, but then again, none of my headphones are really dark.
   
  I think I will enjoy getting used to this - but safe to say my search for the ideal portable amp (for my needs) is over.


----------



## Brooko

Solved the possibility of imbalance issues with my set-up (with the SE535 LE).
   
  Using the Equaliser app, dropped the preamp down a bit, allowing me to turn the volume up slightly (thus avoiding any imbalance).
   
  Works perfectly


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





matter said:


> Has anyone compared the Leckerton uha-4 with the 4G?
> Which is better?


 
   
  I've heard both and prefer the Arrow for it's SQ, thinner case and versatility with different headphones.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





truckdriver said:


> I jumped on a 6% home mortgage rate cuz it was the lowest I'd seen. That was 10 years ago and the rate has not been higher since.
> 
> I waited 7 months for my Arrow. Now I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop (so to speak) and Robert announce that Walmart bought his amp design and will sell Arrow 4Gs for a dollar a piece (placing them along side the gum at the checkout isle).
> 
> Just kidding....I think.


 
   
  Robert has put far too much time, money and energy into this design to sell it to anyone.


----------



## heart banger-97

hi guys
  I'm just curios about this,
  what is the point of using treble or ... other switch? isn't an equalizer app good enough to do so?
  also want to know that how much a good equalizer app can improve the sound quality of a headphone that hasn't a flat frequency response?
  (sorry for my English)


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





heart banger-97 said:


> hi guys
> I'm just curios about this,
> what is the point of using treble or ... other switch? isn't an equalizer app good enough to do so?
> also want to know that how much a good equalizer app can improve the sound quality of a headphone that hasn't a flat frequency response?
> (sorry for my English)


 
   
  Hardware circuits tend to sound better than software circuits. At least this has been my experience.


----------



## gazar

My 3G developed a bit of a crackle on the line in socket. Robert kindly replaced it with a shiny new 4G which arrived a couple of days ago.
   
  After listening to my I-Phone 4 on its own for 3 weeks it was a joy to get amped once more.
   
  I find it very difficult to pick out the differences between the 3G and 4G after a 3 week gap. Are the same amp chips etc fitted ?? Sounds a bit cleaner and more detailed to my old ears. Not sure about the " valve like sound" that has been reported though. The Arrow was always a bit on the warm side.
   
  I was a bit concerned that the treble switch would be a step backwards. I have been fiddling with the switch settings and am presently listening to OTT Skylon with Gain @ 1, Bass @ 2, Treble @ 1 and the X-feed off. The treble seemd to add a bit of sparkle and clarity.
   
  Another winner from Robert. The sound quality combined with the sleek lightweight design and great battery life makes this amp hard to beat.
   
  Gaz


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





gazar said:


> *Are the same amp chips etc fitted ??*
> 
> Can't really say, you should ask Robert.
> 
> ...


----------



## Brooko

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Agreed.  The performance, features and packaging are unrivaled.  The only thing some would want might be a digital pot which may or may not be in the works at some point.


 
   
  Totally agree!  Other than the very low volume channel imbalance, I can't fault the Arrow - and IMO it's absolutely worth it's price tag.
   
  For anyone wanting to use really sensitive IEMs with an Arrow and iTouch/Iphone 4 - grab the Equaliser app (it's a lot better now), drop the preamp down, and this avoids any imbalance.  So glad I bit the bullet and purchased the Arrow!


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Another super satisfied customer here! Its on the iPod for portable, and more interestingly stuck it on top of my hrt music streamer II DAC... it doesn't stop impressing. Rob you God!


----------



## kenman345

Or you can talk to Robert when you make your order and he can do a tweak to two resistors to fix the low volume channel thing for high-sensitivity IEMs
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Brooko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> For anyone wanting to use really sensitive IEMs with an Arrow and iTouch/Iphone 4 - grab the Equaliser app (it's a lot better now), drop the preamp down, and this avoids any imbalance.  So glad I bit the bullet and purchased the Arrow!


----------



## DNZGamer

Hey, just discovered a function I never thought I would use today! Not sure about older models but the Arrow 4g has two headphone out ports. 

 It actually works really well. I was able to power both my UM3x IEM and my m-80 headphones without causing any noticeable difference to audio quality at all. This is not true of what happened when I tried to hook it up the car stereos though as both the m-80 and car stereo was getting significant crackling and degradation.
   
  But this is amazing because now I can share my music with my wife off of one source and listen to things together with separate headphones, both taking advantage of a great amp and EQ abilities! Becomes a kind of splitter for your DAP or source. How can I love this amp more? The best part is that I love music pretty loud while my wife likes music quiet so IEMs for me and headphone for the Mrs.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





dnzgamer said:


> Hey, just discovered a function I never thought I would use today! Not sure about older models but the Arrow 4g has two headphone out ports.


 
   
  Lol, yes I use it all the time.  Great to share on an airplane or A/B two different phones from the same chain w/o switching.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Would ATH-ESW9 or UE-TF10 benefit from the arrow? (w/ipod touch 4G + LOD).


----------



## Fusillade

expatinjapan said:


> Would ATH-ESW9 or UE-TF10 benefit from the arrow? (w/ipod touch 4G + LOD).





If you are referring to the wood clip-ons (ESW9) and not the headphones, then I have some experience with them. In my opinion, yes - the treble switch makes them more enjoyable, and sometimes it's nice to have a bass boost for some songs. The difference is not amazingly different however, I wouldn't spend 300 USD for such a small difference. Also the arrow doesn't work with an LOD. 

EDIT: Oops, I don't know why I said that, I read that completely wrong. Disregard what I said!


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Thank you.
   
  I have the ATH-ESW9 headphones, the clip ons are ATH-EW9.
   
  Interesting that it doesnt work with an LOD. wow.(are you 100% sure?).


----------



## Brooko

Of course the Arrow works with a LOD.  It's how mine is connected - Touch > LOD > Arrow > Cans or IEMs


----------



## ExpatinJapan

tell me more brooko.


----------



## DNZGamer

What the hell? I have two different LOD lines and they both work fine with the Arrow or any other amp on either inputs. If you can't get sound with LODs, yours is either broken or non-existent. 
   
  Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I have the ATH-ESW9 headphones, the clip ons are ATH-EW9.
> 
> Interesting that it doesnt work with an LOD. wow.(are you 100% sure?).


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Quote: 





dnzgamer said:


> What the hell? I have two different LOD lines and they both work fine with the Arrow or any other amp on either inputs. If you can't get sound with LODs, yours is either broken or non-existent.


 
   
  It wasnt me that said it, I was replying to the person who posted above me.
   
  Hence the `wow.(are you 100% sure?).


----------



## Brooko

Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> tell me more brooko.


 
   
  Best form factor I've ever used - adds very little bulk to your rig - so easy to carry around.  Does have a little channel imbalance at the very bottom of the pot - so not ideal for really sensitive IEMs - but apparently if you talk to Robert he can add a resistor (if your primary use is with IEMs).  For me 535LEs my listening level just avoids the imbalance most of the time - and if I want to go quieter, I just use Equalizer and adjust the preamp.
   
  The available power and gain settings are impressive.  Handles both my HD600 and Beyer DT880 (600 ohm) with no problems.  Bass and treble boosts work well, and allow you to tailor the sound via hardware.  TBH - the crossfade (for my ears) is extremely subtle - so I haven't noticed too much effect.  I need more time with it.  Overall thoughts are very clean sound - great gain / amplification - highly recommend.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Thank you for the information Brooko. 
  It is helpful.


----------



## ChrisSC

I would use this amp when I'm on-the-go, which is when I'm only listening to music casually (not analytically).  How much do IEMs benefit from this with an LOD compared to just straight out of an iPhone 4?
   
  I don't need the treble/bass/crossfade functions because I've already got an equalizer, and I don't need to amplify the power of the source because my IEMs are sensitive- I'm interested in the Arrow purely for sound quality- I guess what I'm asking is whether Arrow improves the signal enough that you can hear the improvement without concentration, and is that improvement worth $300?
   
  Thanks in advance,
  Chris


----------



## DNZGamer

I would say no for IEMs. For my IEMs, I mostly just want the bass boost and treble boost since my IEMs are a little dark for me. Otherwise, I wouldn't bring it at all.


----------



## JDW

Danny, I saw your link to the Arrow manual here:

http://dannytang.ca/Arrow_Manual.pdf

I see at the back of the manual a list of changes for the various versions of the arrow up to the 3G. But is there a newer version of the manual that lists the technical improvements to the 4G?

Also, that manual says the battery charging time is affected by the supply current of the USB connector used. And that if the computer with the USB connector supplies less than 500mA, it could take longer to charge. My question therefore is, is it safe to plug the Arrow into the USB power adapter that Apple ships with its iPad? That adapter can supply 2.1A. And even if the Arrow only requires 500 mA, that iPad USB power adapter would guarantee that level of output. the other benefit to a USB power adapter for an iPad is portability.


----------



## dannytang

Quote: 





jdw said:


> Danny, I saw your link to the Arrow manual here:
> http://dannytang.ca/Arrow_Manual.pdf
> I see at the back of the manual a list of changes for the various versions of the arrow up to the 3G. But is there a newer version of the manual that lists the technical improvements to the 4G?


 
   
  Hi,
   
  When I made the PDF of the manual from the old Headphonia forums Robert had a change log up to the 3G. If anyone has and official change log from Robert or another reliable source, I'd be glad to update the manual I'm hosting on my site.


----------



## fleasbaby

Got my 4G in the mail today after purchasing from a fellow head-fier...I am upgrading from a PA2V2 (prior to that a FiiO E7) and am loving it so far...it pairs well with both my Blox M2C and my Grado SR325is.
   
  Aside from the fantastic form factor and build quality, sound is top notch, and the manual switches for bass, crossfeed, etc are great. Can see why these are so freaking popular...


----------



## phil2dot6

Has anybody ordered from the latest batch to come out this week? I still have yet to receive confirmation from Robert regarding my order that was supposed to be shipped on the 15th.


----------



## FieldingMellish

Quote: 





phil2dot6 said:


> Has anybody ordered from the latest batch to come out this week? I still have yet to receive confirmation from Robert regarding my order that was supposed to be shipped on the 15th.


 
   
  I'm about to. I asked about them being in stock and Robert replied, "it depends on your location. When you are in the U.S. then your order would ship in one week from California. Other orders will ship from Hong Kong or Germany."
   
  I'm in the US.


----------



## Hellenback

Nice to see this great little amp getting the love it deserves instead of just reading waiting complaints!
   
  @Fusillade
   
  Do you realize you can just edit/correct your (erroneous) post instead of asking others to disregard it?


----------



## Fusillade

Yes, I do know that. But I hate deleting my own posts, I'd rather show that I was wrong.


----------



## archer276

I ordered mine at the end of March, 28th or so, and just got it in the mail yesterday afternoon.  I am in the US so mine shipped out from Cali.  I am just loving the size of this amp as well as the sound quality from such a small source.  I do have one question, is there a good portable way to charge this amp without resorting to dragging my laptop or pc along for the ride?


----------



## FieldingMellish

I'll bet that there are power plugs that have a usb interface for charging on the go. Similar to the one Apple is using for iPhone charging.


----------



## FlySweep

archer276 said:


> I ordered mine at the end of March, 28th or so, and just got it in the mail yesterday afternoon.  I am in the US so mine shipped out from Cali.  I am just loving the size of this amp as well as the sound quality from such a small source.  I do have one question, is there a good portable way to charge this amp without resorting to dragging my laptop or pc along for the ride?


 
   
Here's what I've been using for a long time.. 5V output (just like a USB port).. works perfectly & has never given me any problem (Arrow's battery running like a champ with fantastic run time):


----------



## grokit

Something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINI-USB-WALL-CHARGER-MOTOROLA-RAZR-V3-KRZR-K1-K1m-SLVR-PEBL-Z3-Q-Phone-/270982808207?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item3f17d5828f


----------



## alphaphoenix

Or a high capacity li-ion portable external battery pack made to power iphones/idevices and anything that takes 5V USB standard or mini in size.  Justmobile specializes in this need.


----------



## Laird

Quote: 





fieldingmellish said:


> I'll bet that there are power plugs that have a usb interface for charging on the go. Similar to the one Apple is using for iPhone charging.


 
  There are - and you can use the Apple one too. It is JUST a USB AC Adapter and that is all it is.


----------



## archer276

Quote: 





laird said:


> There are - and you can use the Apple one too. It is JUST a USB AC Adapter and that is all it is.


 

 That is good news.  That makes it so I can take 1 charger and cover my iPod and Arrow4G.


----------



## fleasbaby

That's awesome, I was wondering about that (headed out for the long weekend coming up here in the US and don't want to be caught with my pants down...well, metaphorically speaking anyway.


----------



## heart banger-97

does any one use arrow 4G with k701 or q701?
  I potentially want to buy 701; but if 701 can't be driven to a good level, I will buy sr325.


----------



## FieldingMellish

There's an Arrow in my future. Exactly when, it's up to Robert. Just did the deal moments ago.


----------



## grokit

I tried the 1G Arrow with the K701, it was alright in general but did clip at high volume when things got complex.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I tried the 1G Arrow with the K701, it was alright in general but did clip at high volume when things got complex.


 
  I assume high gain.


----------



## grokit

Definitely, level III. I was trying the K701 and an HE-5 with it and the HE-5 was the same, maybe a little worse. They both suck power bigtime.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Definitely, level III. I was trying the K701 and an HE-5 with it and the HE-5 was the same, maybe a little worse. They both suck power bigtime.


 
  Yes they do.  I don't even think the Lyr is ideal w/ the HE6 or LCD2 at high volumes so the Arrow may not be 'ideal'.


----------



## grokit

The Lyr is very good with the K701 however, the best I've heard from both the amp and the headphones.


----------



## CSAudio

Hey.. I got my 4G and the sound is imbalance..while I trying down the volume, its even more noticeable ..
  I emailed Rob but he said its normal..


----------



## dannytang

Quote: 





csaudio said:


> Hey.. I got my 4G and the sound is imbalance..while I trying down the volume, its even more noticeable ..
> I emailed Rob but he said its normal..


 
   
  Channel imbalance is normal for analog pots at low volumes. Have you tried turning the volume up a little? Does the imbalance go away?


----------



## Dyaems

Quote: 





heart banger-97 said:


> does any one use arrow 4G with k701 or q701?
> I potentially want to buy 701; but if 701 can't be driven to a good level, I will buy sr325.


 

 i tried a 3g when i had it with the k701 and they sound great. love the intimate-sounding vocals. and you can use bass boost 1 (not 2 or 3) for added 'oomph' for the low end. but for 300usd you might as well buy a desktop amp for the k701.. maybe throw a dac as well.


----------



## zeitfliesst

Subscribed~


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





heart banger-97 said:


> does any one use arrow 4G with k701 or q701?
> I potentially want to buy 701; but if 701 can't be driven to a good level, I will buy sr325.


 
   
  I've listened to the K701's with an Arrow amp quite a bit, actually. It works/sounds really good. At *really* high listening volumes, the bass clips a bit, though. But you really have to pointedly turn things up to hear it. But all around? It works real good with the 701's. I'm currently using a 3G Arrow amp, which has a slightly different bass boost tone compared to the 4G ... bit more "thumpy" and tight ... and this servers the 701's  *very* nicely as, I think they are sort of bass anemic, myself. But that's just my take on things so grain of salt and all ... 
   
  ...
   

   
  ...
   
  Of course, the Arrow is not an ideal solution for the AKG 701's ... but for the record? It will push them to pretty nice levels. 
   
  Read more, here...where I talk a bit about the Arrow and full sized cans: http://www.head-fi.org/t/538016/review-the-headstage-arrow-he-portable-amplifier
   
  Rock.
   
  j.


----------



## Dyaems

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> I've listened to the K701's with an Arrow amp quite a bit, actually. It works/sounds really good. At *really* high listening volumes, the bass clips a bit, though. But you really have to pointedly turn things up to hear it. But all around? It works real good with the 701's. I'm currently using a 3G Arrow amp, which has a slightly different bass boost tone compared to the 4G ... bit more "thumpy" and tight ... and this servers the 701's  *very* nicely as, I think they are sort of bass anemic, myself. But that's just my take on things so grain of salt and all ...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
   
  nice. same setup i used with the k701 before, except for the interconnect xD
  i use a denko cable for my interconnect for adding "meatiness" for the k701.


----------



## Anaxilus

How much you need to turn up the Arrow to enjoy a 701 w/o clipping might also depend on the source feeding the Arrow as well.


----------



## Orcin

I picked up s1rrah's Arrow last night. This thing is awesome. I have never heard my IEM's sound so good. The separation and tight sound is amazing. I need to try it with my full-size cans over the weekend.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





orcin said:


> I picked up s1rrah's Arrow last night. This thing is awesome. I have never heard my IEM's sound so good. The separation and tight sound is amazing. I need to try it with my full-size cans over the weekend.


 
   
  Oh yeah. Go ahead. Rub it in, why don't ya?
   

   
  Enjoy.
   
  (how's the first level bass boost work with the UM3's, BTW?)


----------



## Orcin

I tried the bass boost with the UM3s, but I thought it was too much bass. No boost was perfect to my ears.


----------



## Orcin

I am admittedly a little late to the party here, but this amp is amazing. It makes my Grados sing.


----------



## fleasbaby

I have been using it mostly with my Blox M2C, but have used it with my Grado 325is a few times, and you're right, it does do wonders with the Grado sound...


----------



## FieldingMellish

Quote: 





fieldingmellish said:


> There's an Arrow in my future. Exactly when, it's up to Robert. Just did the deal moments ago.


 
   
   
  Robert is on top of the case. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I emailed him and got a prompt response. The amp I ordered on May 24th has made it's way from Hong Kong to a DHL hub that is some 14 miles away from me on Long Island. Entire delivery will have taken nine or ten business days. 
   
  Edited: it officially took nine business days. Besides prompt delivery, Robert has promptly responded to followup emails. Delivery and response is only noteworthy in light of contrasting anecdotes elsewhere in this thread.


----------



## Daveed84

This post probably isn't going to be relevant anymore since A. it's been discussed to death already and B. my Arrow 12HE 2G is two generations behind, but I can confirm that the 12HE 2G and the UE Triple.fi 10 do not pair well at all. Not sure what it is, but it tones down the treble response too much for my taste. Cymbals sound completely flat, and the separation isn't as good. It's strange though, the Arrow pairs very well with my Grados!


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





daveed84 said:


> This post probably isn't going to be relevant anymore since A. it's been discussed to death already and B. my Arrow 12HE 2G is two generations behind, but I can confirm that the 12HE 2G and the UE Triple.fi 10 do not pair well at all. Not sure what it is, but it tones down the treble response too much for my taste. Cymbals sound completely flat, and the separation isn't as good. It's strange though, the Arrow pairs very well with my Grados!


 
   
  It has been discussed to death.  Output impedance was around 10ohms which screws up the TF10 crossover.  It's been fixed and below 1 ohm since 2.2/3G, can't recall which.  TF10 has the most susceptible crossover of any IEM to output impedance from any device.


----------



## anoxy

So is an Arrow 3G worth the $140 extra over my newly purchased Fiio E11? I'll be using it with Etymotic ER-4B primarily, IE8, and Senns HD555. 
   
  Can't decide if I should return the E11 and shell out the extra cash.
   
  edit: too late, my impulses got the best of me.


----------



## FlySweep

anoxy said:


> edit: too late, my impulses got the best of me.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





anoxy said:


> So is an Arrow 3G worth the $140 extra over my newly purchased Fiio E11?


 
   
  Absolutely.


----------



## Hellenback

yes x2


----------



## StimulatedBoy

[size=10pt]Received my Arrow 4G today, and although it’s very early in the evaluation process, first impressions are nothing but stunning. Beautifully built, and the sound, of my god, the sound… I have goose bumps all over at the moment. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Heartfelt gratitude to Robert for allowing me to have this AMP and for following me up and answering every stupid question I had in the process. [/size][size=10pt]Robert, you are a prince! Thanks[/size]


----------



## wjblaney

Quote: 





bungsai said:


> My arrow just arrived...plugging it into the computer...no green light turns on, however when i play something through it the red light turns on...
> 
> is it charging?!


 
   
  Hi,
   
  I didn't see any answer to this question and I'm having the exact same problem. For clarification: the amp works while the mini usb cable is plugged in but not (or not well) when it's not plugged in. And no light comes on at all when i plug in the amp (usb to usb) but am not listening to music. I've had my amp for a few months and this is a new problem. I'm thinking it needs a new battery or do i need a replacement amp? (a workaround would be best...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  .


----------



## RaybanM

What a sublime technological marvell.. the size.. the build and texture of the cover.. its so small and cute and the Sound! Oh my days...  Stunning product.
  What we now need is a good holding case. Check out my pic


----------



## StimulatedBoy

Anyone have experience with the Arrow 4G and Sennheiser HD650 (or similar headphones)? Will Arrow be capable of running them? Is it a good match?
   
  Any input welcome!


----------



## anoxy

I recall somebody mentioning earlier that it drives the HD600 sufficiently.


----------



## Brooko

Quote: 





stimulatedboy said:


> Anyone have experience with the Arrow 4G and Sennheiser HD650 (or similar headphones)? Will Arrow be capable of running them? Is it a good match?
> 
> Any input welcome!


 
   
  I run my 4G with the HD600 and it handles them easily.  It should be a nice match with the HD650 as (to my ears with no EQ boost) it is very clean and uncoloured (wire with gain).
   
  It also has no problems with my DT880 600ohm or K701.  It's a very powerful unit.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *StimulatedBoy*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, for a portable amp there are few that drive them as well. I use my 650s with the Arrow all the time when not at my desk. The 4Gs treble boost gives the 650s a little more top end when needed/wanted.


----------



## proedros

Highly interested in the USB Dac - if you have one for selling , please pm me
   
  Cheers


----------



## Vibemerchant

Hi guys, 
I know these headphones are not released yet, but how well do you expect the Arrow to pair with the V-moda M-100's? Do you expect it to make a "300 dollar difference"? Afterall, the m-100 could be quite efficient. I'd love to find out, but it's a pricey bet. Thanks!
M.

(And perhaps someone can comment on the Arrow in combination with other V-Moda phones, like the LP's or M-80's)

M-100 thread: www.head-fi.org/t/592389/v-moda-m-100-discussion-feedback-reviews-pics-etc/6000


----------



## proedros

Hey guys , help me out here please
   
   
  I have an* 1G* arrow and i am thinking of upgrading to the newer *4G* version
   
  can someone who had the 1G and upgraded to the 4G tell me if it's worth it (i think it is) and what major/minor sonic differences he experienced between these 2 models ?
   
  and would you upgrade from 1g to 4g or not and why ?


 Thanx a lot for any opinions/feedback whatsoever


----------



## s1rrah

I had a 2G then a 3G ... and I demo'd the 4G when it was in production. I'd guess the main difference would be in the tonality of the bass boost circuit (1G/2G/3G being a bit stonger, more "taugt" sounding...whereas the 4G is "smoother") ... otherwise?  Sonically? I think the amps will perform, basically the same ...


----------



## heart banger-97

Quote: 





proedros said:


> Hey guys , help me out here please
> 
> 
> I have an* 1G* arrow and i am thinking of upgrading to the newer *4G* version
> ...


 

 take a look here


----------



## proedros

yeah , seems like the 4G is a complete improvement...guess an upgrade is eminent
  
   
  thanx for the link 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





heart banger-97 said:


> take a look here


 
   
   
   
  EDIT : i went ahead with the upgrade , i just sent my 1G amp to Robert - now we wait


----------



## desmoface

Tell us more about sending your amp in for an upgrade. Does robert offer such a service? If so, what is the cost? Thanks in advance.

Steve



proedros said:


> yeah , seems like the 4G is a complete improvement...guess an upgrade is eminent
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Daveed84

Robert quoted me at $40 for an upgrade from the previous revision


----------



## proedros

Quote: 





desmoface said:


> Tell us more about sending your amp in for an upgrade. Does robert offer such a service? If so, what is the cost? Thanks in advance.
> Steve


 

 it's doable , yes
   
  email him at *mail@headstage.com* , tell him where you live and your arrow generation and he'll get back at you


----------



## alv4426

I went the upgrade route about a month or two ago (from 3G to 4G) it was $40 and it was about a month wait.


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Quote: 





alv4426 said:


> I went the upgrade route about a month or two ago (from 3G to 4G) it was $40 and it was about a month wait.


 
  O really? I'm considering the same move, do you think in your opinion it was worth it sound Q wise? And is the bass boost as bad as people say?


----------



## alv4426

I do believe it is a better sounding device but the bass boost is pretty much there for show now. All 3 levels of boost sound almost the same to me, but I'm a Treble/Mids guy so I don't mind not having overly boosted bass if it means the other freqs are better. I'm also experiencing less interference issues (less than the 3G but its still there a little). If you're a basshead you are probably not going to be happy with a 4G compared to the 3G. I am very happy with my 4G I don't regret the upgrade at all.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





alv4426 said:


> I do believe it is a better sounding device but the bass boost is pretty much there for show now. All 3 levels of boost sound almost the same to me, but I'm a Treble/Mids guy so I don't mind not having overly boosted bass if it means the other freqs are better. I'm also experiencing less interference issues (less than the 3G but its still there a little). If you're a basshead you are probably not going to be happy with a 4G compared to the 3G. I am very happy with my 4G I don't regret the upgrade at all.


 
   
  x2
   
  The bass boost on the 3G is vastly more preferrable to my ear than is the 4G bass boost (I've heard both). The 4G is not bad ... it's just *very* very subtle and deep ... whereas the 3G circuit is more "tight" ... "snappy" and pronounced. 
   
  Recently my Shure SE535 IEM's were stolen from my local gym ... being sick and pissed ... I immediately sold my Arrow 3G ...swearing to never invest any money in portable gear again.
   
  LOL ...
   
  Then, a day later, I emailed Robert and asked him to send me another Arrow 3G cause I'd already made up my mind to buy another set of Shure SE535's (thieves be damned!) ... this as opposed to the 4G Arrow because I'd heard both with my SE535's and because I knew the 3G was way more fun with them ....
   
  Anyway ... this isn't so much a knock on the 4G as it is a mention of how the earlier version has very different bass boost circuitry... cause I know it's a stellar bit of kit (the 4G...I was a BETA tester for it) ... but for my preferred IEMs? The 3G bass boost allows much more enjoyable possibilities ....


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Thanks guys! 
  Sorry to hear of your 535's, I'm not sure how I'd react to that but i wouldn't be pretty!
  I think just a new battery for mine will do for now, I've been rinsing it since day 1


----------



## alv4426

I gotta add guys the battery life is insane, I'm still on the original charge (I went back to check Ive had it exactly 1 month). I have used it as my portable amp/DAC for my laptop since I got it and it has been my only amp/DAC for the last week as I had to put away my fullsize stuff since I'm moving and Ive put on a bunch of time with my HD650 and JH5/TF10 and its still going on the same charge. Sorry for the run-on


----------



## proedros

robert emailed me and said the 4g upgrade will be shipped in 1-2 weeks
   
  can't wait


----------



## AdDicTiVe

upgraded 4g !!
just pulled a trigger on this sexy port amp 2 days ago on a local shop,is it possible mine was the upgraded version? since this amp had just arrive to my country few days ago straight from Robs office,i hope it is..


----------



## Jupiterknight

Quote: 





proedros said:


> robert emailed me and said the 4g upgrade will be shipped in 1-2 weeks
> 
> can't wait


 
   
  I received my 4G a couple of days ago. Twelve days after I placed my order, so the 1-2 weeks seems about right.  The 4G was shipped express from China if anyone cares to know.


----------



## Averruncus

Is the 4G a big enough upgrade from the 2.2 to warrant me sending it in for an exchange? I'm pretty satisfied with it now and don't really care for new features on my arrow.
   
  Has the over sound quality improved much since 2.2?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





alv4426 said:


> I gotta add guys the battery life is insane, I'm still on the original charge (I went back to check Ive had it exactly 1 month). I have used it as my portable amp/*DAC* for my laptop since I got it and it has been my only amp/*DAC* for the last week as I had to put away my fullsize stuff since I'm moving and Ive put on a bunch of time with my HD650 and JH5/TF10 and its still going on the same charge. Sorry for the run-on


 
   
  The 4g has a DAC in it?


----------



## alv4426

No it doesn't I have the the headstage DAC cable bundle (although I think I have the older version). I was going to link to it but I can't find it on their website so maybe they don't sell it anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? 
   


grokit said:


> The 4g has a DAC in it?


----------



## AdDicTiVe

addictive said:


> upgraded 4g !!
> just pulled a trigger on this sexy port amp 2 days ago on a local shop,is it possible mine was the upgraded version? since this amp had just arrive to my country few days ago straight from Robs office,i hope it is..




my bad.. a missunderstanding about the comment above 
Though.. it seems there is some better improvement ,
according to some people whom own the earlier 4g batch.


----------



## Deckkie

I am thinking about buying the 4g.
  But I will be using it with a v-moda m80. Do you guys think this is overkill for that headphone, or will it give me substantial better sound?
  Thanks.


----------



## AdDicTiVe

@decckie : just pull the trigger dude,i found this amp was good to drive my small impedance cans.


----------



## cmasia

Hi guys.
   
  After reading all the great stuff here, I decided to jump back in the Head-Fi game.
   
  Several years ago, I bought a pair of Ety ER4-S, and enjoyed them until, after a few years, my ears revolted against the flanges, foamies, etc.
   
  So I went to the dark side, and used Bose Quiet Comfort. (Yes, I don't blame you if you stop reading. )
   
  I travel overseas a few times per year and decided to revisit the whole thing.
   
  So, I dusted off the Etys, had some custom molds ( Sensaphonic ) made, and bought an Arrow 4G.
   
  Ordered it on September 25, and it arrived today ( 15 days later, including a 3 day delay from Robert's forwarder in HK. ) 
   
  2 hours into this new kit, I'm stunned at how good this all sounds - using an IPOD Classic.
   
  A few early comments, while using a mini - mini (Yes, yes, yes, an LOD is coming. See below. ):
   
  I'm not a bass guy by any means, but the combo of the custom molds and the bass switch gives me everything the Etys alone lacked.
   
  I listened to several types of music and was amazed to hear things I've not heard through an IPOD before.
   
  The custom mold allows me to listen at a much lower level, yet the amp enhances the Etys.
   
  A couple of questions if I may.
   
  1) With the Etys, custom mold, Arrow, and the IPOD, I've got about $1,000 of kit. Will a FiiO L3 or L9 LOD be good enough, or is it worth another $40 - $60 to upgrade?
   
  2) Is there a market for used Bose QC's ? )
   
  Cheers.
   
  cmasia


----------



## anoxy

The FiiO LODs are great. No need to upgrade imo


----------



## NUGA94

Hello, 
  I purchased the Headstage Arrow amp, and I was wondering if there is a case for just the amp.
  If there is could someone please give me some suggestions? 
  Any help would be greatly appreciated, and I am sorry if this has been answered elsewhere.
  Thank You,
  NK


----------



## AdDicTiVe

cell phone's leather pouch could do the job


----------



## NUGA94

Thank you for the reply!


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Hey peeps. 
   
  Nice to see the Arrow forum up and active again...speaking of which (sleek), I am selling my Headstage Arrow 2.2 (with the awesome bass boost); pm me if interested...


----------



## Sherlockaled

Guys, how long did it take for Robert to start shipping from order date? I ordered mine on the 8th but the it is still processing.


----------



## Jupiterknight

I wouldn't count on the info in your order account.  These days the Arrow is shipped from HK and I assume he forwards the info. but may forget to update the account.
   
  I never received any shipping info. but it took around two weeks for the unit to arrive. I ordered my Arrow 4G in September and I believe it was first shipped at least a week after my order.  A friend of mine also ordered one two weeks ago and he just received his unit today.
   
  If you want to contact Robert I suggest that you just shoot him an email, don't use the option to contact him through his website.


----------



## Sherlockaled

Quote: 





jupiterknight said:


> I wouldn't count on the info in your order account.  These days the Arrow is shipped from HK and I assume he forwards the info. but may forget to update the account.
> 
> I never received any shipping info. but it took around two weeks for the unit to arrive. I ordered my Arrow 4G in September and I believe it was first shipped at least a week after my order.  A friend of mine also ordered one two weeks ago and he just received his unit today.
> 
> If you want to contact Robert I suggest that you just shoot him an email, don't use the option to contact him through his website.


 
  Can you please give me his email? I contacted him a few times through mail@headstage.com and don't know if that is what you're referring to.


----------



## Jupiterknight

Quote: 





sherlockaled said:


> Can you please give me his email? I contacted him a few times through mail@headstage.com and don't know if that is what you're referring to.


 
   
  Try this one  info@headphonia.com


----------



## proedros

*http://www.headstage.com/*
   
   
  no sign of the arrow there -  i wonder what happened......
   
   
  is there a new website for the arrow amp ? anyone know ?


----------



## cmasia

Quote: 





proedros said:


> *http://www.headstage.com/*
> 
> 
> no sign of the arrow there -  i wonder what happened......
> ...


 
  http://www.headphonia.com/


----------



## anoxy

Does anyone use their Arrow with a Sansa Clip? Would I just have to buy a mini to mini interconnect?


----------



## proedros

has anyone here received any arrow upgrades ?
   
  i sent my 1g arrow on september 15th , it must have arrived at robert on the 20th and 1,5 month later i still have no news of when it's gonna be sent over back to me (i am in London uk)
   
  ok i know rob is a busy guy but i dunno 6-7 weeks of waiting is normal ?
   
  anyone here who is in the same boat as me ?


----------



## wjblaney

Quote: 





proedros said:


> has anyone here received any arrow upgrades ?
> 
> i sent my 1g arrow on september 15th , it must have arrived at robert on the 20th and 1,5 month later i still have no news of when it's gonna be sent over back to me (i am in London uk)
> 
> ...


 
  Oh yeah, been waiting since Aug. 10. Granted my problem isn't exactly the same as yours (I can't recharge the battery and am waiting for a replacement arrow) and he is replacing it for free. Also, he says he ran out of stock (I got an email from him 8 hours ago).


----------



## bitlisz

Same issue here...I have sent it on Oct 10, arrived on Oct 16.
  And I am still waiting for my upgraded Arrow 4G (from 3G)
  I have sent couple of emails till now, and he just answered 12 days ago that he is run out of stock...
   
  Also I started with this order only for USB DAC cable in Aug 1. !
   
  Ths guy is really strage ways handling the customers...I am starting to regret it I every invested in these stuffs.


----------



## proedros

or maybe the guy is a zen master - teaching us patience the hard way.
   
  so,we wait.


----------



## anoxy

How much does he charge to upgrade from 3G --> 4G? And what features does the upgrade provide?


----------



## grokit

anoxy said:


> How much does he charge to upgrade from 3G --> 4G? And what features does the upgrade provide?




Basically, you are trading the impedance selector for a treble boost switch. Not sure what the charge is these days.


----------



## bitlisz

35EUR with shipping.


----------



## psion84

Hi guys,
   
  How does the 4G fair when paired with the triple fi10? any members with the 4G and TF10 care to give some impressions?im really interested in this amp..hehe


----------



## bitlisz

I have sent my amp for upgrade...50 days ago. (44 days from arrival) And I already payed for upgrade and DAC Cable...SUM of 18 emails...and seems now lost the amp and some additional money.
   
  It is unbelievable that they have absolutely no idea about customer service. This is kinda Nightmare.
   
Now I am about getting another amp, because almost 1,5 months ago I don't have one.


----------



## proedros

i sent mine over 2.5 months ago
   
  september 15th
   
  still nothing.
  Quote: 





bitlisz said:


> I have sent my amp for upgrade...50 days ago. (44 days from arrival) And I already payed for upgrade and DAC Cable...SUM of 18 emails...and seems now lost the amp and some additional money.
> 
> It is unbelievable that they have absolutely no idea about customer service. This is kinda Nightmare.
> 
> Now I am about getting another amp, because almost 1,5 months ago I don't have one.


----------



## anoxy

Clearly took your amp and ran...


----------



## proedros

don't think he would do such a thing - patience.
  Quote: 





anoxy said:


> Clearly took your amp and ran...


----------



## proedros

3 months since i sent my amp for an upgrade and still no news for more than 2 months
   
   
*ok , WHAT THE ****** IS GOING ON , MR ROBERT ??????*


----------



## bitlisz

4 days ago got reply about the amp: "You will receive it in 3-5 working days!"
Then I asked for tracking number and about DAC cable....no answer yet.
Let's see what I receive...


----------



## proedros

Quote: 





bitlisz said:


> 4 days ago got reply about the amp: "You will receive it in 3-5 working days!"
> Then I asked for tracking number and about DAC cable....no answer yet.
> Let's see what I receive...


 
   
  i have not received any emails whatsoever - guess having sent my amp for upgrade *85 days ago* makes me obsolete


----------



## bitlisz

It seems after 61days, the "mass-mailing" reached the target
  My upgraded Arrow just arrived with the USB DAC Cable by DHL Express
  Also with 2 small jack cable (maybe gift?).
  Anyway I will think more than twice about the upgrade for Arrow 5G ... Maybe better to buy new and sold the old, just after arrived.
   
   

   

   

   
  Now I am waiting for short angled USB-OTG Cable:


----------



## alv4426

I didnt think that you could use the usb DAC cable like that. Did you have to do anything to the phone for it to work?
  Quote: 





bitlisz said:


> It seems after 61days, the "mass-mailing" reached the target
> My upgraded Arrow just arrived with the USB DAC Cable by DHL Express
> Also with 2 small jack cable (maybe gift?).
> Anyway I will think more than twice about the upgrade for Arrow 5G ... Maybe better to buy new and sold the old, just after arrived.
> ...


----------



## bitlisz

It is working fine.
  And no, I did not done anything with the phone. Stock rom.
  Also the USB OTG Cable arrived, and works with that too.
   
  But It seems the new Arrow amp really sensitive for mobile RF interference.
  With the old (3G) i have not noticed this...
   
  BTW, here is one internal pictures for each:
  3G:
   

  4G:


----------



## alv4426

thanks for letting me know, im gonna order one of those OTG cables. Strangely though I had a lot more interference issues with my 3G than my 4G.


----------



## bitlisz

I hope you understand the setup:
   
  Samsung Galaxy SIII -> USB-OTG Cable (or earlier USB 4in1 Adapter) for S3 ->
   
  1.) USB to Mini USB cable -> ODAC (Objective DAC) -> jack-jack cable ->
   
  or
   
  2.) Headstage USB Dac Cable ->
   
  -> Headstage Arrow -> Earsonics SM3 v1
   
   
  You cannot directly connect with any cable phone USB to Headstage Arrow Amp.
  The USB on Arrow amp just for Charging!
   
   
  After I checked more carefully the pictures found that maybe in the new amp removed some components, like next to the white connector, which is maybe power supply IC (2x3 pin)...


----------



## bitlisz

I can confirm the interference is much worst that with 3G version.
  Anyway, can be solved by using airplane mode
  Issue also mentioned in this test:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/585786/multi-portable-amp-thread-12-amps-reviewed-shonyun-306-added-10-03-12
  But I can feel what is improved: more Transparency, Dynamics, Resolution, Detail...with slight (little) additional Bass.
  I also notice sometimes the imbalance, but not above my tolerance.
  I wonder how this can beimproved on Portaphile 627.
  But for me too much on negative side:
  for me at least twice higher the price: 549USD ~ 420EUR (+27% import tax!), vs 250EUR for the Arrow 4G (but was 210 EUR for me as refurbished 3G ungraded),
  Very whort battery life, no USB charging, no auto power on/off...but anything like bass/treble/cross no need for me.


----------



## proedros

glad for you - let's hope mine will arrive soon - i am also in Europe (London , UK) so i don't know what is going on
   
*today it's 3 months since i sent my arrow amp over* and no emails since 24/09/2012
   
  oh well.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote:


bitlisz said:


> It seems after 61days, the "mass-mailing" reached the target
> My upgraded Arrow just arrived with the USB DAC Cable by DHL Express
> Also with 2 small jack cable (maybe gift?).
> Anyway I will think more than twice about the upgrade for Arrow 5G ... Maybe better to buy new and sold the old, just after arrived.


----------



## Dyaems

impedance switch will be replaced with treble boost. I sent my 3g for repair but it came back already as 4G so not sure how much for an upgrade.


----------



## proedros

can someone tell me if robert has changed e-mail in the last month or so ?
   
  maybe that's why he hasn't answered to me....
   
*3 months gone by and still waiting for my arrow amp upgrade*
   
   
*NICE*


----------



## bitlisz

I always writen to all  what i found:
mail@headstage.com
info@headphonia.com
info@headphone.de
   
At the beginning answer came back from mail@headstage.com, then from info@headphonia.com.


----------



## planx

Hey guys, my Arrow 4G arrived and I'm sort of confused... This might sound sooo noobish (I'm not huge on portable amps) but what does the Cross switch do? On the site, it opens a foreign language PDF and ya... So far, it sounds really nice, a huge upgrade from an E11. Dat mids and treble...


----------



## Dyaems

Quote: 





planx said:


> Hey guys, my Arrow 4G arrived and I'm sort of confused... This might sound sooo noobish (I'm not huge on portable amps) but what does the Cross switch do? On the site, it opens a foreign language PDF and ya... So far, it sounds really nice, a huge upgrade from an E11. Dat mids and treble...


 

 its a crossfeed switch
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossfeed
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/233288/what-is-crossfeed
 http://www.leckertonaudio.com/2010/09/what-is-headphone-crossfeed/
   
  switch 0 is no crossfeed
  switch one is from left to right
  and switch two is from right to left
   
  or i forgot LOL


----------



## neverdien

are anyone tell me how about the headphonia's service?
  i plan to have a arrow amp but i read lot about "terrible" service when i seach for it


----------



## Dyaems

IME its "service" depends. maybe they are just busy, or have many manufacturing backlogs or something.
   
  My 3g broke and i sent it for repair and I got it back after 1-2 months of waiting and it was shipped directly to my doorstep. I live in southeast asia.
   
  but one friend of mine waited for his arrow for 6 months, while i waited for mine when i purchased it around 3-4 months only.
   
   
  edit: or you can buy a used one!


----------



## neverdien

Quote: 





dyaems said:


> IME its "service" depends. maybe they are just busy, or have many manufacturing backlogs or something.
> 
> My 3g broke and i sent it for repair and I got it back after 1-2 months of waiting and it was shipped directly to my doorstep. I live in southeast asia.
> 
> ...


 
  thanks a lot, but it's so hard to find anyone sell a used 4G amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Do you know other shop sell it?


----------



## proedros

after 3 months of waiting , i got an email today saying that my amp was left to post office and wll receive it next week
   
  fingers crosses let's see !


----------



## Dyaems

Quote: 





neverdien said:


> thanks a lot, but it's so hard to find anyone sell a used 4G amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  just lurk in the FS thread and you can even get an arrow 3G because it is already good. difference between the 3G and 4G for me is the impedance switch got replaced with treble boost. as for its sound, they are both the same IMO
   
  i wouldn't replace my 3G with a 4G if one of my 3G's jacks got broken


----------



## proedros

my arrow 4g is finally here
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  what do those 2 small cables are supposed to do ? anyone knows ?


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





dyaems said:


> just lurk in the FS thread and you can even get an arrow 3G because it is already good. difference between the 3G and 4G for me is the impedance switch got replaced with treble boost. as for its sound, they are both the same IMO
> 
> i wouldn't replace my 3G with a 4G if one of my 3G's jacks got broken


 
   
  And just another reminder ... the 3G bass boost is significantly _different_ than the 4G's ... both are equally good in realization but one might be better with certain IEMs than the other.
   
  Sort of a moot point as one, most folks are buying the 4G and two, I've heard distant rumblings (from on high) that the 5G might find some way to combine the two as options (the punchier bass of the 3G as *well* as the smoother bass of the 4G...and as possibly switch based selections. But you didn't hear that from me ...


----------



## planx

What cable? I only received the USB and the device itself


----------



## Dyaems

Quote: 





s1rrah said:


> And just another reminder ... the 3G bass boost is significantly _different_ than the 4G's ... both are equally good in realization but one might be better with certain IEMs than the other.
> 
> Sort of a moot point as one, most folks are buying the 4G and two, I've heard distant rumblings (from on high) that the 5G might find some way to combine the two as options (the punchier bass of the 3G as *well* as the smoother bass of the 4G...and as possibly switch based selections. But you didn't hear that from me ...


 

 yep 3g and 4g bass boost are different, but i dont think anyone uses 3g's bass switch II as it is very distorted. bass II of 4g is the bass I of 3g IIRC


----------



## Speedv1

Just placed an order for a new 12he 4g and it's already marked as shipped! Hoping this pairs well with my Edition 8s.


----------



## proedros

i also received these 2 small jack cables - do we know what their use is for ?
   
  anyone ?
   
  Quote: 





bitlisz said:


> It seems after 61days, the "mass-mailing" reached the target
> My upgraded Arrow just arrived with the USB DAC Cable by DHL Express
> *Also with 2 small jack cable *(maybe gift?).


----------



## AdDicTiVe

mini to mini i guess


----------



## anoxy

Damn, those are perfect minis. Send me one if you don't need it!


----------



## esmBOS

Quote: 





proedros said:


> i also received these 2 small jack cables - do we know what their use is for ?
> 
> anyone ?


 
  I've been looking for minis like that for AGES! Can you please email them one more time to ask where we can get hold of those kinds of mini to mini's?! Pretty please!


----------



## proedros

one more time
   
  what is the purpose of these minis  ?


----------



## Speedv1

Holy this amp is brilliant! Works a treat with my iPod Classic and Ultrasone Edition 8s! Bass and soundstage - perfect!


----------



## alv4426

Maybe for use with devices that cannot use LODs?
  Quote: 





proedros said:


> one more time
> 
> what is the purpose of these minis  ?


----------



## zappp

It is a one-man-show depending on Asian suppliers. He is a honest man, but don't expect the consistency of service quality from a large distributer. Holidays, sick leave, supply bottlenecks after hyped reviews or forum threads happen. I was early adopter of Lyrix, Arrow 1G and upgrader to 3G. Living in Germany I felt safer with him than with Chinese or US sellers, with costly postage cost in case of warranty issues or customs hassle. I ordered the original package with USB DAC stick which he never delivered, but after a reminder was reimbursed without delay. In the meantime I got used HRT Headstreamer instead.

Increasing impedance tends to dampen treble (and effective gain), the treble boost does the opposite.


----------



## neverdien

Quote: 





planx said:


> What cable? I only received the USB and the device itself


 
  me too, and again, what cable??


----------



## zerocoolhifi

I ordered my Headstage Arrow 4G on 1/6 and here is what my order status says:
   
  1/7 - Pending
  1/7 - Order Processing
  1/7 - Arrow 4G
   
  Anyone have some past experience with how long it usually takes to actually ship and then how long to get it in the US. Chinese new year may delay it and patience is not one of my traits.


----------



## anoxy

Any info on the turnaround time for 3G > 4G upgrades?


----------



## Dyaems

it depends if they are busy
   
  i got mine for about 1-2 months and i live in southeast asia.


----------



## redrich2000

Quote: 





zerocoolhifi said:


> I ordered my Headstage Arrow 4G on 1/6 and here is what my order status says:
> 
> 1/7 - Pending
> 1/7 - Order Processing
> ...


 

 Mine's the same but 1/10. I was hoping that meant it had shipped. Wish I'd just gone with the ibasso.
  I notice the price has gone up to $299, so someone is doing something over there.


----------



## Dyaems

ive seen shipping as fast as 2 weeks, to as slow as 8 months for the arrrow. its best to have patience, no matter you have it or not, and try not to think about it as it will definitely arrive in your place.


----------



## zerocoolhifi

Do you usually get an email once it ships?


----------



## zerocoolhifi

Just got my email from Robert - should have it by this weekend or early next week.


----------



## colstero

Is this the same one as the Headstage Arrow 12 HE?


----------



## sluker

Has anyone upgraded the 3G to the 4G? what is the difference in sound/battery life? How long did it take in the US?


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Has anyone upgraded the 3G to the 4G? what is the difference in sound/battery life? How long did it take in the US?


 
   
  To my ear and in general, they sounded identical in regards to overall sonics and  sound quality.
   
  That said, there is a definite difference between the bass boost circuits.
   
  The 3G is a more "thumpy" and "tight" bass sound ... 
   
  The 4G is a bit more "refined" ... "deeper" and more "smooth" ... not as taut and snappy sounding.
   
  But they both (the bass circuit) are about the best realized I've ever heard. It just depends on your cans/IEM's.
   
  Myself? I prefer the 3G bass circuit with my Shure SE535's ...  mostly due to the fact that the Shure's are designed to be as flat/neutral as possible (at least to my ear) ... with nothing added to any frequency range ... and, this make the bass seem a bit lacking some times (though it's really just a matter of the recording) ... and so the extra "oomph" in the 3G bass circuit really is nice.
   
  However, if you have some  cans/IEM's that have a more prounounced default bass signature, then you might prefer the 4G more so.
   
  Hope that helps...
   
  .joel


----------



## zerocoolhifi

I have now had my headstage arrow 4g for a few weeks and have listened to it with many sources (iPhone 4, iPad, computer) with high gain output and lower gain output, and ran through most of my IEM collection as well as all kinds of music. I am so thoroughly impressed with this amp.

Ordering: took a total of 2 weeks start to finish, including a tracking email from Robert.
Packaging: I think everyone knows this is not the strong suit. Cheap box, couple of connectors and a chargin cable. Pretty basic.
Form factor: perfect size, very slim, matches very well with my iPhone 4. Switches are very solid and I like the fact that nothing sticks out from the amp so when it is in pocket nothing is done by accident. Love having an input on both ends and 2 headphone outs is nice. I thought I would not like the volume wheel, afraid it would feel cheap but it is very solid and the turn is slightly stiff which I like. Only draw back as there is no level indicator on the volume knob so you have to a little careful to turn it down a touch before firing it up so you don't blow your head off.
Usage: all the switches do what they are supposed to and having 3 options for each one is absolutely fantastic. The auto power on/off I thought I would also not like. It works so well that I wish my other amps had it in fear of leaving them on and run out of juice.
Sound: the true meat and potatoes of any amp is this. The sound quality here is phenomenal!!!! Everything seems to be tight, detailed and smooth. Seem amps seem like they are just have a hard time keeping up and being accurate but this thing is just so true. The bass is tight with great extension, mids are full punchy and the highs are just so smooth while still being crisp and detailed. I just love the impact and clear details. Run into a few tracks or set of headphones that need a little boost in an area, just grab a toggle switch, these thing do example what the label says and do so so well. Some other amps I would not even use the eq functions because they were done so poorly (eq on the e6 for example) that I would not use them and others while boosting the low end also boost other areas and just don't do it well. Here, you ask for a bit more bass flip the switch and that is all you get a bit more bass and it does it accurately. Have a track or headphones that a touch veiled, dial up the treble a notch and there you go no more veil on the vocals. Gain switch works well and having 3 setting is quite useful (more so that only having 2) is you are using IEMs and cans.

To sum it up, this thing is awesome and smooth as a gravey sandwich. If you have been looking for that higher end amp, this is fantastic. Nothing bad to say and I love the sound. The bass and treble adjustments make this amp so flexible because those adjustments do their job so well.

Excellent work Robert.


----------



## Craigster75

Nice review.  Any power specs on the amp?


----------



## zerocoolhifi

Came with zero spec, maybe check the Headphonia site.


----------



## Craigster75

Quote: 





zerocoolhifi said:


> Came with zero spec, maybe check the Headphonia site.


 

 Thanks.  Strange there's no amp power listed on the web site since it is just a bit relevant.


----------



## zerocoolhifi

I can tell you that I have a long way to do on the volume knob before getting to the end and I am using using gain position 2 so there is another one to go yet so I think there is a lot of juice on this thing. Excellent battery life as well.


----------



## Smokhee

Quote: 





bitlisz said:


> I hope you understand the setup:
> 
> Samsung Galaxy SIII -> USB-OTG Cable (or earlier USB 4in1 Adapter) for S3 ->
> 
> ...


 
   
  I tried setup 2 above with the Note 2 but the sound was disappointing...much worse than the USB Dac cable hooked up to my computer.  Does it matter what player you use?


----------



## alv4426

I also use the above setup 2 but I think it sounds very good (other than the occasional interference issues) with my GS3. It doesn't matter what player I use and strangely even Pandora sounds a lot better to me on my phone than on the web player (on either my MBP/PC). What I will say is that the background is quieter on a computer for me than my phone but not by much.


----------



## bitlisz

I use Poweramp and sounds good. Also tried XBMC, and was fine too.


----------



## max111

Is anyone using or has used arrow with jh16 (with or without freqphase)? can share your thoughts? thanks.


----------



## Apo0th3karY

Subbed. Interest piqued after reading the first two pages. I'll be reading the rest later...  
   
  Money saving mode. I've now lost all interest in the E12; unless someone can tell me how the E12 is better than the Arrow? lol.


----------



## Craigster75

The Headstage Arrow is on my short list of portable amps, but I am concerned this is the only amp that doesn't readily publish its power, considering it is the single most important spec of an amp.  Every other amp highlights this.  I even emailed a retailer of these who didn't know.  Does anyone know how many mw/channel the Arrow outputs?


----------



## zerocoolhifi

I can tell you that I come no where near the limit using IEMs and only on the 2nd gain switch, one more step up to go. There is also a headphone combined adapter that comes with the amp that plugs into both headphone outs at the same time to create one headphone out. I have not tried this at all yet but that may also be something to check into. I would send Robert a direct message from the Headphonia site as he is good about getting back to people and just ask him directly, if you have not already done so.


----------



## Krandor311

I can't speak from personal experience, but my understanding is that it is capable of driving up to an HD800. 
   
  Mostly sticking to Westone 4s and M-100s (primarily with Ipod Touch 5 Lightning Adapter/LOD as source), I've never had to use the gain switch.


----------



## Craigster75

Quote: 





krandor311 said:


> I can't speak from personal experience, but my understanding is that it is capable of driving up to an HD800.
> 
> Mostly sticking to Westone 4s and M-100s (primarily with Ipod Touch 5 Lightning Adapter/LOD as source), I've never had to use the gain switch.


 

 Thanks.  Then it must have generous power.


----------



## alv4426

It drives/drove my HD650, K701, and a power hungry modded T20RP(it takes high gain on my NFB10WM to get to my levels of listening) easily with plenty of power to spare. And still drives my JH5 wonderfully with zero hum.


----------



## audionewbi

Hate to bring old thread but did anyone else developed any problems with their CHG port? I used to use it as an input but sadly my right channel no longer has continuous audio, the right channel audio keeps disconnecting. 
   
  editusty port, my bad.


----------



## SonicBoom1008

It is impossible to find the 3G anywhere. Can anyone point me in some general direction?


----------



## zerocoolhifi

3G would have to be used, 4G is current model and get through Headphonia.com from Robert.


----------



## SonicBoom1008

Thanks. Because I can't find a used 3G anywhere I am thinking about going ahead and purchasing a 4G from Headphonia. Can anyone tell me about the differences in the bass boosts between the two models and any other worthwhile distinctions?


----------



## KimChee

Bass Boost of 3G is +6db on position I and +12 db on position II, Bass boost on 4g I think is 3db and 6db.  4g has treble switches also instead of impedence switch.  I have a 3g for sale if you're interested.


----------



## zerocoolhifi

I can tell you that I only use the higher bass boost on IEMs that are a bit bass light otherwise I am on position 1 of the 4g and I like my bass deep and punchy but not a bass head.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





craigster75 said:


> The Headstage Arrow is on my short list of portable amps, but I am concerned this is the only amp that doesn't readily publish its power, considering it is the single most important spec of an amp.  Every other amp highlights this.  I even emailed a retailer of these who didn't know.  Does anyone know how many mw/channel the Arrow outputs?


 
  I really cannot tell but I can give you this much, I own the Objective 2 amp which has specs readily available all over the web, it goes louder than O2 with the gain swiches, it is more resolving than O2, it bass feature adds bass but it is not a huge add, it is enough to please me ( and I am no bass head). Hope that helps.


----------



## checo94

I just received mine last Thursday. After a long 7 years of listening to my UE Superfi Pro 5's with various sources, I decided to get a bit more involved. That's the long way of saying my ears hijacked my wallet again! Nonetheless, I've paired it with my Sony X1061 and Vsonic GR07's. Sweet to my ears! Full sized cans are next. Why fight this bug?


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





checo94 said:


> I just received mine last Thursday. After a long 7 years of listening to my UE Superfi Pro 5's with various sources, I decided to get a bit more involved. That's the long way of saying my ears hijacked my wallet again! Nonetheless, I've paired it with my Sony X1061 and Vsonic GR07's. Sweet to my ears! Full sized cans are next. Why fight this bug?


 
  The sound stage on arrow with my k702 is small, I dont think arrow 4G paired with headphone do the headphones any good. Why not stick to IEM? :-D


----------



## Dyaems

i had the 3g and the 4g and both makes headphones sound narrow/compressed because the arrow sounds too intimate for my tastes. although for some weird reason, i dont get the same impression with iems.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





dyaems said:


> i had the 3g and the 4g and both makes headphones sound narrow/compressed because the arrow sounds too intimate for my tastes. although for some weird reason, i dont get the same impression with iems.


 
  I really love the 4G paired with ER4S. The detail and resolution makes me forget soundstage. It would be hard to bit 4G if it did not had the soundstage problem.
   
  Do you happen to have any dynamic IEM? If you do what they are and how to they pair with 4G?


----------



## checo94

And so the spiral begins! I'm happy with this setup as my portable rig. My next frontier will be a more home based rig.


----------



## audionewbi

Congrats  I hope Robert releases the 5G in near future


----------



## alv4426

^^^I hope he does free upgrades


----------



## Apo0th3karY

Hm. So the soundstage is congested with the Arrow on headphones? Why is that?
   
  I think that might be a deal breaker for me. I'd be coming from my C&C BH, which has a massive soundstage which results in better imaging and instrument separation, so it sounds like the 4G might not be what I'm looking for.


----------



## Dyaems

dont know any reason why, but no matter what source or interconnects i use (for those cable believers), soundstage somewhat collapses on headphones. maybe because of the automatic voltage switching feature? could be, since the arrow uses 4v when using iems and 12v when using headphones IIRC.
   
  @ audionewbi
   
  i used both dynamic and ba iems with an arrow and soundstage didn't really collapse at all for some reason. if there is, it is almost unnoticeable. i only noticed it on headphones. i even agree with one poster said on the previous page that the soundstage goes down the drain with a k702. they make a good pair though due to the somewhat unnatural soundstaging of the k701/702


----------



## PurdueAlum

Posted this on another Arrow thread and realized it has not been active in months. This one seems to be alive and well, so I apologize up front for double-posting. I am considering a purchase of the Arrow amp and wonder if anyone has experience with this amp and highly sensitive IEM's? How well might the Arrow pair with IEM's like the Klipsch Image X10 in ear headphones, which are rated at 50 ohms and a sensitivity of 110 dB SPL/mW (1 mW). I also listen to a pair of Klipsch Custom-3′s rated at 32 ohms and 115 dB SPL/mW (1 mW).

My other question is on channel imbalance. After reading about the new JDS Labs C5 and the quest to correct channel imbalance at low volumes, I wonder how the Arrow sounds at low volumes? I have it narrowed down to these two amps, and the price difference is quite steep. $187 for the C5 compared to $299 for the Arrow. Wondering if the crossfeed and treble boost are worth the extra $120. 

Thanks in advance for any information.


----------



## alv4426

It can handle sensitive iems well (at least I think my jh5 and my old um2 were sensitive). No issues with hum and they sound spectacular. Channel imbalance is present on both the 3G & 4G at very low volume. You can only hear one side of the headphone from volumes 0-5ish(?)% after that its perfect. The volume it balances out at is below my normal listening volume even when I listen at low volume so ive never had an issue with it. As for crossfeed I wouldn't really know cause im pretty sure mine never worked as I cant tell any difference between levels with any headphone with any source. Ive never heard the other amp so I cant compare, but I will say this lityle amp sounds great with all my headphones, is tiny, good build quality, battery lasts a very long time(ive only charged it maybe 6-8 times in the I think 6 months ive owned it using it very often), and has a pretty good level of user controls. Thats a list of combos I dont think many match


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





apo0th3kary said:


> Hm. So the soundstage is congested with the Arrow on headphones? Why is that?
> 
> I think that might be a deal breaker for me. I'd be coming from my C&C BH, which has a massive soundstage which results in better imaging and instrument separation, so it sounds like the 4G might not be what I'm looking for.


 
  I highly regard arrow 4G as one of the best amps there is in that price range. It is able to challenge amps few hundred dollars about it with ease. If you want an amp that clearly improves all aspect of 4G you need to spend 450 plus region in order to hear those improvement. For what it cost it has no challenger in its price range.


----------



## max111

is there any channel imbalance when use at low volume for iem user?


----------



## Dyaems

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I highly regard arrow 4G as one of the best amps there is in that price range. It is able to challenge amps few hundred dollars about it with ease. If you want an amp that clearly improves all aspect of 4G you need to spend 450 plus region in order to hear those improvement. For what it cost it has no challenger in its price range.


 
   
  just audio uha-120 and aha-120, and leckerton audio uha-6s mk2 are better than the arrow in terms of sound IMO. all three loses to the arrow's features and size though haha


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





dyaems said:


> just audio uha-120 and aha-120, and leckerton audio *uha-6s mk2* are better than the arrow in terms of sound IMO. all three loses to the arrow's features and size though haha


 
  uha-120 and aha-120 both cost more than arrow 4G and they both are considerably thicker than arrow 4G. I agree the uha-6s mk2 is in price range and I need to say  I havent heard that but there is a ood chance it is going to sound better with the OPA 627 upgrade but once again sizewise it is much larger than arrow 4G.
  There are many ways we can judge things. I believe shape plays an important role and considering its slim nature the arrow 4G does a decent job. I am sure Robert would have been able to put some better parts to improve the sound but than again it would put it in transportable region not portable. Arrow 4G is truly a portable amp, if size is not an issue there are other option which might provide a marginal better sound than the arrow but I still believe in order to get a better sounding amp than arrow 4G we need to spend a good 200 dollars.


----------



## Howlin Fester

Yes.  There is a slight channel imbalance, but I have been using my Arrow 2.2G for years without a problem with IEM.  TF10, SE530, and Superfi5.
  My understanding is that channel imbalance is something you will get with any analog potentiometer.  It is just how they are made.
   
  The channel imbalance was always below my normal listening level.  However, I have everything normalized to 90dB with the program dbGain, and then bump it up one click in iTunes in the options section for volume.  So my tunes could be of lower possible value than other people.


----------



## PurdueAlum

alv4426 said:


> It can handle sensitive iems well (at least I think my jh5 and my old um2 were sensitive). No issues with hum and they sound spectacular. Channel imbalance is present on both the 3G & 4G at very low volume. You can only hear one side of the headphone from volumes 0-5ish(?)% after that its perfect. The volume it balances out at is below my normal listening volume even when I listen at low volume so ive never had an issue with it. As for crossfeed I wouldn't really know cause im pretty sure mine never worked as I cant tell any difference between levels with any headphone with any source. Ive never heard the other amp so I cant compare, but I will say this lityle amp sounds great with all my headphones, is tiny, good build quality, battery lasts a very long time(ive only charged it maybe 6-8 times in the I think 6 months ive owned it using it very often), and has a pretty good level of user controls. Thats a list of combos I dont think many match


 Thanks alv4426!


----------



## Dyaems

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> uha-120 and aha-120 both cost more than arrow 4G and they both are considerably thicker than arrow 4G. I agree the uha-6s mk2 is in price range and I need to say  I havent heard that but there is a ood chance it is going to sound better with the OPA 627 upgrade but once again sizewise it is much larger than arrow 4G.
> There are many ways we can judge things. I believe shape plays an important role and considering its slim nature the arrow 4G does a decent job. I am sure Robert would have been able to put some better parts to improve the sound but than again it would put it in transportable region not portable. Arrow 4G is truly a portable amp, if size is not an issue there are other option which might provide a marginal better sound than the arrow but I still believe in order to get a better sounding amp than arrow 4G we need to spend a good 200 dollars.


 
   
  really? i thought the uha is around 180usd and the aha is around 300? i prefer a fully modded cmoy than the arrow and the three amps i mentioned though, since i get to make the sound how i wanted to be. i may make one in the future but i need a slim and long case for it... like the *E12* case


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





dyaems said:


> really? i thought the uha is around 180usd and the aha is around 300? i prefer a fully modded cmoy than the arrow and the three amps i mentioned though, since i get to make the sound how i wanted to be. i may make one in the future but i need a slim and long case for it... like the *E12* case


 
  aha-120 is around 290 BP which is almost 400 AUD. uha is cheaper I cannot remember but how much but based on average joe review arrow 4G is on par and better than them.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/585786/multi-portable-amp-thread-12-amps-reviewed-shonyun-306-added-10-03-12
   
  I agree E12 looks is just spot on, it will match my DD socket 1 perfectly.


----------



## Dyaems

i thought just-audio is based on the USA, sorry about that xD


----------



## Tom Yum Goong

Hi folks! 

I'm going to order a refurbished 4G next month and now I have more or less dumb question. It's a more general one. 
How do you use an amp correctly? Do you turn up the volume of the amp and turn down the players volume or is it the other way around? I'm going to use my J3 and SM64 (98 ohm) with the Arrow.


----------



## Craigster75

Quote: 





tom yum goong said:


> Hi folks!
> 
> I'm going to order a refurbished 4G next month and now I have more or less dumb question. It's a more general one.
> How do you use an amp correctly? Do you turn up the volume of the amp and turn down the players volume or is it the other way around? I'm going to use my J3 and SM64 (98 ohm) with the Arrow.


 

 I have read that 75% volume on the player is optimal if you are using the headphone jack, then adjust volume as desired on your amp.  Line out would be optimal if it is an option with your player.


----------



## proedros

good question as i already have a J3 / arrow 4g /re272 combo , nad i would like to hear opinions of other users
   
  i am currently maxing out the arrow volume and keep the j3 around 18-22 / 40 on GAIN 1
   
  not sure 100% , but i think someone has sais this is the optimal option (but i am not 100% certain if i read it or i simply imagined it)
  Quote: 





tom yum goong said:


> Hi folks!
> 
> I'm going to order a refurbished 4G next month and now I have more or less dumb question. It's a more general one.
> How do you use an amp correctly? Do you turn up the volume of the amp and turn down the players volume or is it the other way around?* I'm going to use my J3* and SM64 (98 ohm) with the Arrow.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





proedros said:


> good question as i already have a J3 / arrow 4g /re272 combo , nad i would like to hear opinions of other users
> 
> i am currently maxing out the arrow volume and keep the j3 around 18-22 / 40 on GAIN 1
> 
> not sure 100% , but i think someone has sais this is the optimal option (but i am not 100% certain if i read it or i simply imagined it)


 
   
  That's interesting ...
   
  Do you really find that the J3 benefits from use in conjunction with the Arrow? I had a S:flo 2 / Arrow combo and found it fantastic as the S:flo's resolution is so good and it's EQ is fairly lack luster, thus, line-out to the Arrow amp was like sonic love as I could flatten things and run just the bass boost with the Arrow; I found this a near perfect match with Shure SE535's and their somewhat "flat" tuning.
   
  I now have a J3 and upon first listen the thought that came to mind was that I wouldn't be needing to get another Arrow amp as one, I found/find the J3, though quite nice sounding, to be not nearly as resolving as the S:flo 2 ... and two, I think the EQ implementation on the J3 is quite phenomenal and this combined with the insane battery life made living without the S:flo/Arrow just a bit easier (though I was seriously blown away by how less resolving the J3 was/is...
   
  Currently, I'm a daily and happy J3 user but I simply can't find any reason to use an amp as it sounds pretty dang good, has a great EQ and drives my SE535's quite well ...
   
  So just curious ... what do you enjoy about the combination? 
   
  Thanks for any information...
   
  (I wish Teclast would release a new batch of S:flo's damnit; I'd *so* buy another Arrow if they did...best portable amp I've ever used  hands down...)
   
 ...


----------



## Dyaems

i have sflo2 and i paired it with arrow once. soundstage really collapsed with that pair, very noticeable than a J3 for example. although i used it with a headphone with the pairing. i thought it was my interconnect that is getting that problem, but i even changed it with other interconnects and the tonality changed a bit, but the soundstage is still the same
   
  not bashing the arrow as i still own one and love _most _things about it, although i lent it to a friend since i usually dont use amps anymore because my headphones and iems are pretty much easy to drive. except for my ES7 Ortho transplant which is incredibly hard to drive


----------



## Tom Yum Goong

I don't know if I will use the Arrows EQ. Right now I'm not using any EQ when I listen to music but maybe that will change 
 It's just that my IEMs are a bit hard to drive and I heard a lot of great things about amping the SM64.


----------



## zerocoolhifi

I like the eq on the arrow and it really allows you to make certain headphones that may be a bit lacking on certain areas sound better to your liking.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





dyaems said:


> i have sflo2 and i paired it with arrow once. soundstage really collapsed with that pair, very noticeable than a J3 for example. although i used it with a headphone with the pairing. i thought it was my interconnect that is getting that problem, but i even changed it with other interconnects and the tonality changed a bit, but the soundstage is still the same
> 
> not bashing the arrow as i still own one and love _most _things about it, although i lent it to a friend since i usually dont use amps anymore because my headphones and iems are pretty much easy to drive. except for my ES7 Ortho transplant which is incredibly hard to drive


 
   
  I would have to agree (a little) with that. I always thought the straight headphone out of the S:flo sounded a bit more dynamic (wider) than the line-out to the Arrow ... but the overall tone and especially the bass boost (3G Arrow on setting 1) won me over as it made the SE535's sing. But yeah ... oddly enough and though I haven't thought about it ... there was a slightly more compressed soundstage from the line-out to the Arrow then was straight out of the main S:flo 2 headphone out ... and, truth be told, I'm not sure if this was a by product of the S:flo 2 line out circuit (as it used a different OPAMP than the headphone out) ... or the Arrow amp itself ...
   
  Thanks for that ... interesting point.


----------



## audionewbi

I never experienced such things using my ipod 5 G and Fiio LOD and arrow 4G. Perhaps if you guys can use different DAP and see if similar things occurs.


----------



## feverfive

:sigh:  Headstage service is still terrible...they received my old Arrow on Feb 11 & still haven't shipped my replacement/upgrade 4G Arrow.  Now I remember why I swore back in 2010 that I'd never do business w/ them again, no matter how much I like the product itself. end rant/


----------



## max111

Quote: 





feverfive said:


> :sigh:  Headstage service is still terrible...they received my old Arrow on Feb 11 & still haven't shipped my replacement/upgrade 4G Arrow.  Now I remember why I swore back in 2010 that I'd never do business w/ them again, no matter how much I like the product itself. end rant/


 
   
  just placed an order for a refurbished arrow... no reply from Headstage when enquired about the expected delivery date... looks like it is going to be a long wait....


----------



## proedros

I think it improves the sound a bit , but maybe it's just my idea , i mean theoretically 272 are fine without an amp
    
  in any case i managed to buy it quite cheap , so for the money i spent i think it is a nice add to my set-up

  


s1rrah said:


> That's interesting ...
> 
> *Do you really find that the J3 benefits from use in conjunction with the Arrow? *I had a S:flo 2 / Arrow combo and found it fantastic as the S:flo's resolution is so good and it's EQ is fairly lack luster, thus, line-out to the Arrow amp was like sonic love as I could flatten things and run just the bass boost with the Arrow; I found this a near perfect match with Shure SE535's and their somewhat "flat" tuning.
> 
> ...


----------



## Da5Id

Quote: 





max111 said:


> just placed an order for a refurbished arrow... no reply from Headstage when enquired about the expected delivery date... looks like it is going to be a long wait....


 
  I can't speak for refurbished units, but I placed an order for a new 4G on January 16th and received it via DHL on January 24th.


----------



## max111

Quote: 





da5id said:


> I can't speak for refurbished units, but I placed an order for a new 4G on January 16th and received it via DHL on January 24th.


 
  Thanks, so it could be just refurbished and upgrading units which may take longer.  By the way, did your status go from "order processing" to "arrow 4g" when it shipped?


----------



## Whippler

Asked about refurbs from him today, and also ordered one today, he said he will have them in a week in stock in Germany.


----------



## Da5Id

^^^ I don't remember the details of the order status. I seem to remember that the order status didn't reflect the actual status. I sent an email to Robert asking if he had received my Paypal and he then told me in response that I would receive it the following week on either a Wednesday or Thursday. I received it on Thursday, but the delivery attempt was made when I wasn't home, so I had it redirected to my office for a Friday delivery.


----------



## zerocoolhifi

My Delivery status never changed on the site once it went to processing but I emailed Robert and he got back to me right away with time table and a tracking email (site still didn't change). Email is best way to see where it is at.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





max111 said:


> Thanks, so it could be just refurbished and upgrading units which may take longer.  By the way, did your status go from "order processing" to "arrow 4g" when it shipped?


 
   
  And I believe some units ship from California and some from Germany ... refurbs from Germany are most likely going to take longer ...
   
  And thanks for mentioning that, ya'll ... should I get another Arrow, I'll most likely get a refurb ...


----------



## Tom Yum Goong

Quote: 





whippler said:


> Asked about refurbs from him today, and also ordered one today, he said he will have them in a week in stock in Germany.


 

 He will have ne refurbished ones in stock next week?
 Oh shoot, I need money! Fast!


----------



## alfredojose

I´ve placed my order the 21st of February. Can say anyone when I´ll recive it? Thank you very much.


----------



## Tom Yum Goong

I think asking the Headstage guys is the way to go


----------



## max111

Quote: 





tom yum goong said:


> I think asking the Headstage guys is the way to go


 
  That's provided you can get a reply from them....


----------



## alfredojose

I´ll do it. But I heard that he takes time to send it and he doesn´t give you a tracking number. But, I´ll try.


----------



## rbf1138

Does anyone have experience using the Arrow with a DAC for portable use? I'm considering the Headstage DAC cable, the Dragonfly and the DACport LX. Anyone have thoughts on which would be the way to go here? Thanks!


----------



## bitlisz

I am using it with ODAC, also have the DAC Cable. Sound more refined, detailed with the ODAC.
  btw with Galaxy S3 (Poweramp).


----------



## borrego

I received my Arrow HE G4 2 days ago, as an upgrade of my 2 years old Arrow HE 1G with plain case.
   
  I pair it with the S:flo2, listened with Yuin PK1 and Hifiman RE0. I would say the tonal balance of the G4 is pretty much as same as the G1. Improvement is most noticeble on dynamics. The G4 sounds more "responsive".
   
  The package also include a short 3.5mm male to male stereo cable with L-plug. I have yet to try that.
   
  I am in Hong Kong and the the package was sent to me via local postal service with Hong Kong postal stamps on the evelope. I guess the Arrow is now made/assembled in Hong Kong. I posted my Arrow G1 to the US California address though.
   
  Overall the upgrade is well worth the US$49


----------



## Whippler

hmm, i'm getting a little knocking sound when Arrow 4G charging, hear it only when the volume is close to 0.


----------



## fabio-fi

Guys, guess what came today in the mail? 
   
  Yes, its a headstage arrow 12he 4g. Im doing some impressions after some proper listening. But so far, it outperformed most of the portable amps i've tried.


----------



## borrego

It seems the Arrow 4G is no more... the Arrow 4T is announced on the headstage website


----------



## audionewbi

Interesting, I wonder how much the upgrade cost?


----------



## Jupiterknight

Battery life seems to be reduced quite significantly with the 4T. Specified at  30-40 hours compared to the 70-80 hours of the 4G. Something to consider..


----------



## audionewbi

30 hours is still very respectable.


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> 30 hours is still very respectable.


 
   
  No doubt, I've been running my 3G for what seems like weeks between charges! But in all honestly, 30 hours will still get the job done and is still better than most. 
   
  I'm more interested in the new bass sound more "tube like". I just hope it doesn't get rid of the amazing depth the II position gives me on the 3G. Either way I'm very curious to see how this is going to sound. 
   
  4T's ship out in May so we'll see soon enough!
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## proedros

So , do you guys think that this transition to a warmer sound will be a good thing ?
   
  I mean the focal point with the 4G was the neutrality in the amp , not coloring the sound and all
   
  Anyway , after waiting 3 months for my 1G>4G upgrade , I have no craving for a 2nd upgrade atm


----------



## InsideTM

Colouring the basic sound doesn't make sense to me. After the clean bass boost, the versatility of the 4G was the main reason I bought it. Having this as an optional switch could be very interesting but to have it as the starting point will probably stop me upgrading. 

What changes were people hoping for in the upgrade from 4G?


----------



## KimChee

I still prefer my 3G overall.  4G is better overall in most ways in a technical sense, but that bass on the 3G makes me prefer it to the 4G.


----------



## InsideTM

Would have loved to try the 3G for exactly that reason. I was hoping the next upgrade would add more punch to the bass boost without any other major changes. Really like the treble boost so not sure which I'd have gone for if I had the choice.


----------



## alv4426

^^^friggen bassheads


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





kimchee said:


> I still prefer my 3G overall.  4G is better overall in most ways in a technical sense, but that bass on the 3G makes me prefer it to the 4G.


 
   
  +1
   
  recently pair the 3g with my 650's and couldn't believe how much lower the HD's got. I use to switch back n forth between my 650's and D5k's because the 650's just couldn't get low enough for my taste until the 3G came into my life Now the D5k's have pretty much been retired and may be on the selling block in the near future. Well that and I want the TH600's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## midnightwalker

Quote: 





jupiterknight said:


> Battery life seems to be reduced quite significantly with the 4T. Specified at  30-40 hours compared to the 70-80 hours of the 4G. Something to consider..


 
   
  Because the new opamp consumes twice compare to the old one so battery life expected to reduce in half. We can still order the 4G for better battery life although there is no option on the web. You just need to leave a note to Robert on your order. IMO, 30-40 hours battery life is good enough.


----------



## InsideTM

alv4426 said:


> ^^^friggen bassheads




Lol! Unrepentantly guilty on that front... My own fault for going for isolation over sq when I brought my iem's. Based on what everyone has said, the 3G bass boost inside a 4G would be my amp nirvana.


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





insidetm said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Lets hope the 4T is exactly that and they dial back the treble boost a touch and we may have the best value amp on the market on our hands. 
   
   
  These two are for my basshead brothers and sisters... Your welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
https://soundcloud.com/numbernin6/the-prodigy-breathe-numbernin6-remix
   
   
   
https://soundcloud.com/knifepartyinc/nero-crush-knife-party-remix
   
   
  Listen to that with the 3G on II and some D5000's... It'll change you...
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## georgelai57

stimulatedboy said:


> Anyone have experience with the Arrow 4G and Sennheiser HD650 (or similar headphones)? Will Arrow be capable of running them? Is it a good match?
> 
> Any input welcome!



The 4G has no problems driving my HD600 and HD650 simultaneously on Gain Level I. The dual outputs are a tremendous feature when you feel like A/B-ing different headphones.


----------



## KimChee

I put my order in on the 4T just out of curiosity, I wonder about the new opamp...most likely though I'll be looking for another 3G as my desktop amp, and as a backup lol.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





kimchee said:


> I put my order in on the 4T just out of curiosity, I wonder about the new opamp...most likely though I'll be looking for another 3G as my desktop amp, and as a backup lol.


 
  Congrats, please let us know how you like it. I am too broke to experiment anymore :-D


----------



## midnightwalker

Crossing my fingers on the 4T. Hope we can get  it soon on beginning of next month.


----------



## KimChee

My problem right now is I can't get past that 12db position II bass boost on the 3G, it sounds clean, wide, with that bass, and anything less I don't think I'll be happy with lol. We'll see..


----------



## midnightwalker

Lol you are real bass head. Bass boost II on 3G is too much to me, I only use the bass boost I


----------



## Stoney

I'm enjoying my Arrow 4G very much, but I'm wondering: what would be a *clear upgrade* in perhaps the sub-$600 range?  
   
*Goals*:  The tonality and coherence of instruments and voices is great.  I'm not willing to give up on the good midrange, but if I can add more extended and definitive treble (sounds more like metal cymbals, for example) and better imaging and soundstage, I'd be up for an update.  In my current setup (below), I'm using the treble | setting but find it slightly too much.  I'd like an amp where the default "flat" response is extended and detailed enough without a boost.  I use the | gain setting because O and || have some treble problems and it damages the midrange integrity, that hard to describe sense of realism. 
   
*Setup*: now using my iPad 3 --> L11 adapter --> unknown but slightly better cable --> Arrow 4G --> Cardas Clear Light --> HD650 (no foam).  The cable made a good difference... so now I'm looking for a great cable but less bulky and about 6" long... advice would be welcomed!!
   
  Oh, I sometimes use the iPhone 5 --> L9 LOD (looking for something better) --> Arrow --> Audeo PFE 232.  
   
  I use the 
   
   
  Forgive me if I missed another post answering this... but with medical and tax stuff, no time to read comprehensively, although I do try searching often.


----------



## audionewbi

^Without a doubt it would be portaphile 627X! Downside it is single ended and has a battery life of 10 hours but from the reviews I have read it is as good as it can get!


----------



## midnightwalker

Quote: 





stoney said:


> I'm enjoying my Arrow 4G very much, but I'm wondering: what would be a *clear upgrade* in perhaps the sub-$600 range?


 
   
  I would say the Apex Glacier. Couple years ago, I were about to give up portable headamp because its portability and then I found the Arrow which is relatively small and quality in term of sound. I used the Arrow for 1-2 years from 3G to 4G and now I am using the Apex Glacier. It is clearly an upgrade to the Arrow. Additionally, you can also take advantage of the Glacier's DAC section when you are using the iPad via CCK.


----------



## midnightwalker

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> ^Without a doubt it would be portaphile 627X! Downside it is single ended and has a battery life of 10 hours but from the reviews I have read it is as good as it can get!


 
   
  I am really interested in the Portaphile 627/627x but since the battery issue, I will not gonna buy it new, may be I will buy an 2nd amp and then resell it after a week trying. The 627 => 5 hours battery / 4 hours charge and the 627x => 8-10 hours battery / 7 hours charge....I have no idea why it takes so long to fully charge the amp


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





midnightwalker said:


> I am really interested in the Portaphile 627/627x but since the battery issue, I will not gonna buy it new, may be I will buy an 2nd amp and then resell it after a week trying. The 627 => 5 hours battery / 4 hours charge and the 627x => 8-10 hours battery / 7 hours charge....I have no idea why it takes so long to fully charge the amp


 
  8-12 hours is reasonable in my opinion as all the high end DAP and iDAC have a battery life of that amount. 
   
  If I had the budget I would have try this setup
  DDsocket i (OPA627SM)+Poraphile 627x+ipod classic+ER4S= (eargasm!)
  it would be at true OPA627 goodness!


----------



## mpawluk91

Am I able to send headphonia my arrow 4g and pay the difference for the arrow 4t? I hope it's only like 50 bucks


----------



## midnightwalker

Quote: 





mpawluk91 said:


> Am I able to send headphonia my arrow 4g and pay the difference for the arrow 4t? I hope it's only like 50 bucks


 
   
  Why don't you just sell yours on here for around 230 and order the 4T? Save time


----------



## mpawluk91

midnightwalker said:


> Why don't you just sell yours on here for around 230 and order the 4T? Save time


Well I just bought it recently for 200 as a refurb and I don't have the box or nothing, I'm sure that the arrow 4t's warmer sound would love my grado sr225i but it might be to dark for my ue6000


----------



## mpawluk91

stoney said:


> I'm enjoying my Arrow 4G very much, but I'm wondering: what would be a *clear upgrade* in perhaps the sub-$600 range?
> 
> *Goals*:  The tonality and coherence of instruments and voices is great.  I'm not willing to give up on the good midrange, but if I can add more extended and definitive treble (sounds more like metal cymbals, for example) and better imaging and soundstage, I'd be up for an update.  In my current setup (below), I'm using the treble | setting but find it slightly too much.  I'd like an amp where the default "flat" response is extended and detailed enough without a boost.  I use the | gain setting because O and || have some treble problems and it damages the midrange integrity, that hard to describe sense of realism.
> 
> ...


How did a fiio L9 work with the lightning port cause my lightning to 30 pin adapter doesn't play audio through my arrow


----------



## canikickit1

What is the output impedance of the Arrow?
   
  What changes with the impedance setting of the 3G?


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





canikickit1 said:


> What is the output impedance of the Arrow?
> 
> What changes with the impedance setting of the 3G?


 
   
  The output impedance of the Arrow is atomic!! They can easily push any headphones out on the market right now. There have been reviewers that have had the HD800 and T1 both plugged in at the same time and on gain setting 1 powering both of them to great volume levels. The only time I've noticed a difference in sound with the impedance setting is when I was using lower ohm headphones, mainly closed ones at that. When I use it with my HD650's I don't notice a change at all. Same with the crossfeed selector.
   
  All in all, great amp
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## canikickit1

demonfox said:


> The output impedance of the Arrow is atomic!! They can easily push any headphones out on the market right now. There have been reviewers that have had the HD800 and T1 both plugged in at the same time and on gain setting 1 powering both of them to great volume levels. The only time I've noticed a difference in sound with the impedance setting is when I was using lower ohm headphones, mainly closed ones at that. When I use it with my HD650's I don't notice a change at all. Same with the crossfeed selector.
> 
> All in all, great amp
> 
> ...




Thanks, I ask as I am going to pair these with BA IEMs which have a zout of 8ohms. Atomic as in ~10ohm zout?


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





canikickit1 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well umm... Honestly not sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But I did find this amp that can bring the output impedance from 75ohm to 0 with the click of a button. 
   
http://www.practicaldevices.com/amps.htm
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## miprasetya

Is anyone using or has used iPhone 4/4s+ arrow with fitear Togo 334? can share your thoughts? thanks


----------



## alv4426

^^^ I never owned a Fit Ear IEM (come on man I got to eat once in awhile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) but I will say that the Arrow 3G and slightly less so the 4G are terrible when it comes to using them with a phone as they pick up interference like a mofo. I know now for sure that I have upgraded amps that it was the Arrow that was at fault and not my phones being ultra RF radiating iphone 3G/4/GS3. But if you are going to be using the Arrow with a phone in airplane mode it is great.


----------



## zerocoolhifi

Quote: 





alv4426 said:


> ^^^ I never owned a Fit Ear IEM (come on man I got to eat once in awhile
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes even using it in airplace mode with wifi on, there is still some emi (my BH has less with wifi on). BUt in airplane mode and no wifi, that arrow is a lush detailed amp and I love it.


----------



## mpawluk91

M





zerocoolhifi said:


> Yes even using it in airplace mode with wifi on, there is still some emi (my BH has less with wifi on). BUt in airplane mode and no wifi, that arrow is a lush detailed amp and I love it.


my bh never has emi or my arrow when on my itouch4g even with wifi on. But I really want to hear about this arrow 4T


----------



## KimChee

I never have a problem with my 3G as far as emi, 4G is worse in that respect.


----------



## DemonFox

Hey,
   
  For those that were wanting to buy a 3G I've reluctantly decided to put mine up on the classifieds. I should have it up in a matter of minutes. I've got a lot of interest already so it will be priced to sell. Good luck to those that are interested. 
   
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## esuhgb

Hi, im interested in both the arrow 3g or 4g and pico slim to replace my ibasso t5. Does any one have experience with both and wouldnt mind leaving me some impressions? Thanks.


----------



## audionewbi

Arrow 4G is better than ibasso T5. 
  Quote: 





esuhgb said:


> Hi, im interested in both the arrow 3g or 4g and pico slim to replace my ibasso t5. Does any one have experience with both and wouldnt mind leaving me some impressions? Thanks.


----------



## esuhgb

That's promising. How is the arrow compared to the pico slim? Does any one have experience with both? Thanks.


----------



## mpawluk91

Does anyone have an arrow 4T yet?


----------



## akeemali

Should I buy a used Headstage Arro 12HE 2g or just go for a new one with the wait? Anyone who's heard the difference b/w the 2g and 4g, can you enlighten me please? Many thanks.


----------



## canikickit1

If anyone is interested, my 3G is up for sale in the classifieds. Moving on to desktop rigs so my loss is your gain!


----------



## Schokolade bar

He supposedly shipped mine a day ago. I haven't had any problems contacting him but will hope to see it next week.


----------



## mpawluk91

I'm really interested in the 4t's sound


----------



## Hellenback

I've heard them both and chose the Arrow for form factor and adaptabilty. SQ is very good on both and I couldn't say one is _better_ than the other. If there were no switches/control's on the Arrow I _might_ have kept the Pico Slim for it's higher end detail but the treble switch evens out the playing field a great deal.


----------



## esuhgb

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I've heard them both and chose the Arrow for form factor and adaptabilty. SQ is very good on both and I couldn't say one is _better_ than the other. If there were no switches/control's on the Arrow I _might_ have kept the Pico Slim for it's higher end detail but the treble switch evens out the playing field a great deal.


 
  Thanks for the reply, the arrow is looking more appealing given the extra features and its cheaper price.


----------



## audionewbi

It is important that its output impedance _might be_ 10 Ohm


----------



## Brooko

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> It is important that its output impedance is 10 Ohm


 
   
  Actually I'm pretty sure it was only the original Arrow HE and 2G that had 10 ohm output impedance.  Because people wanted to use them with IEMs (and issues with the TF10 at the time), Robert changed to ~ 1ohm output impedance from the 3G.  Both 4G and 4T should be around 1 ohm.


----------



## audionewbi

Someone told me that 4G might have 10 ohm OI, I thought to just pass it on with a caution to buyers as there is no official numbers out.


----------



## Brooko

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Someone told me that 4G might have 10 ohm OI, I thought to just pass it on with a caution to buyers as there is no official numbers out.


 
   
  Maybe contact Robert, and ask before perpetuating an unsubstantiated rumour?
   
  I know that there were complaints about the earlier models (up to 2.2) - and then it was changed.  Threads on here suggest so anyway.
   
*EDIT - NVM - I've emailed him.  Will advise when I eventually hear back.*


----------



## audionewbi

Hey I like mine alot and I did ask before but I did not get a reply, I just thought to share that information here since there is NO official value.
  I thought it would be nice to share this information so other are aware of it and ask before they order just in case the rumor turned out to be true.
   
  Most of the time when a designer has an OI less than one it will the very first thing they will put on their spec sheet.


----------



## Brooko

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> It is important that its output impedance is 10 Ohm


 
   
  Again - just pointing out that you stated it as fact.  I'm almost 100% certain it is ~ 1 ohm.  I will get it clarified for sure though.


----------



## Brooko

Here - found these - but I'll still get a reply from Robert as well ......
   
   


daveed84 said:


> This post probably isn't going to be relevant anymore since A. it's been discussed to death already and B. my Arrow 12HE 2G is two generations behind, but I can confirm that the 12HE 2G and the UE Triple.fi 10 do not pair well at all. Not sure what it is, but it tones down the treble response too much for my taste. Cymbals sound completely flat, and the separation isn't as good. It's strange though, the Arrow pairs very well with my Grados!


 
   


anaxilus said:


> It has been discussed to death.  Output impedance was around 10ohms which screws up the TF10 crossover.  *It's been fixed and below 1 ohm since 2.2/3G, can't recall which*.  TF10 has the most susceptible crossover of any IEM to output impedance from any device.


----------



## audionewbi

I have inserted might be hope to clarify things out.


----------



## ahlim

Brooko I'll be curious to see if you do get a response back, let us know if you do. So far I haven't gotten any replies to probably 10 emails I've sent over the past couple of weeks asking if there's any kind of ETA on my order. It would be nice if he'd at least acknowledge receipt of even one of them... Not the most comforting thought to send someone $300 and then to hear nothing back from them.


----------



## Brooko

I'll let you know. 

It may be small comfort - but in the end, the wait is worth it (IMO). It's a fantastic little amp.


----------



## Schokolade bar

4T came in yesterday. I'm really impressed with the added treble boost over the 3G model. The power remains pretty similar to past models though, and it can power the K701 and K702 at the same time, but be warned it works best if using headphones of the same impendence.


----------



## esmBOS

Anyone know where Robert gets hold of those small mini-mini's?


----------



## mpawluk91

schokolade bar said:


> 4T came in yesterday. I'm really impressed with the added treble boost over the 3G model. The power remains pretty similar to past models though, and it can power the K701 and K702 at the same time, but be warned it works best if using headphones of the same impendence.


Can you compare the sound to an arrow 4g?


----------



## mpawluk91

I need them too, the bigger one lasts longer than the tiny one


----------



## jmartinez50

Quote: 





schokolade bar said:


> 4T came in yesterday. I'm really impressed with the added treble boost over the 3G model. The power remains pretty similar to past models though, and it can power the K701 and K702 at the same time, but be warned it works best if using headphones of the same impendence.


 
   


 Could you compare the bass level between the 4T and the 3G?


----------



## nkoulban

I just my 4T and its great with my ER4P with Shure olives... My Etys have bass!


----------



## Brooko

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> It is important that its output impedance _might be_ 10 Ohm


 
   
  Quote: 





brooko said:


> Actually I'm pretty sure it was only the original Arrow HE and 2G that had 10 ohm output impedance.  Because people wanted to use them with IEMs (and issues with the TF10 at the time), Robert changed to ~ 1ohm output impedance from the 3G.  Both 4G and 4T should be around 1 ohm.


 
   
   
  Well - it appears we were both wrong.  I contacted Rob - and just got reply back.  He says that for the current 4G/4T, the impedance is 3-5 ohms.
   
  His exact reply ......
  "*Hi Paul,*

*its about 3-5 ohm output impedance now.

 Rob *"


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Hmm, strange.
  I also always thought that its OI was 1ohm or less.
  My original plan was to buy an Arrow-4 and pair it with my Fostex hpp1 for that very reason....until the Hifi-m8 came along.
   
  Doesnt it have a three settings switch for different OI?
  EDIT -seems like that was earlier versions.


----------



## mpawluk91

I just need a side by side comparison between the 4g and 4t


----------



## rudi0504

Hi all 

Does anyone know the different between 4 G and 4 T?
I have 4 G has already treble boost 
Thank you


----------



## Jupiterknight

I believe that the 4T uses a different and more power demanding opamp (I can't remember which one), hence the lower battery life. The 4T should be more warmer, tube like sounding than the 4G. Otherwise they should both have the same functionality.


----------



## audionewbi

30 hours is still very respectable.


----------



## Jupiterknight

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> 30 hours is still very respectable.


 
   
  Absolutely..


----------



## KimChee

3G vs 4T comparison, I wish someone had both.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

So... after doing a lot of research on portable amps... I'm pretty decided on the Headstage Arrow 4G/T 
   
  So it looks like the 4G is a bit brighter than the 4T. I'm looking at either one due to power, battery life and size. I'm going to be using it with my ASG-1 (eventually 2s) and M-100s mostly. I've already demoed the 3G with the M-100s and enjoyed it. However for general usage, I'd like the amp to be more neutral and transparent just in case I get different headphones in the future. 
   
  I'll probably get the 4T, because it is easier to find/buy. Anyone have experience with them? Or any input on the sound signatures? I mean I can always adjust both in bass and treble, which is one of the focal reasons why I'm considering the Arrow HE.
   
  There is a 4G is on the F/S forum now at 225 plus shipping. Is it worth it? Or should I grab the 4T at full price (and have free shipping iirc)? 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## thegunner100

Quote: 





brooko said:


> Well - it appears we were both wrong.  I contacted Rob - and just got reply back.  He says that for the current 4G/4T, the impedance is 3-5 ohms.
> 
> His exact reply ......
> "*Hi Paul,*
> ...


 
  Interesting... Would be nice if some people with CIEMs or multi-driver BAs comment on the Arrow 4g/4t. I currently have a Arrow 4g and i'm waiting for my UERMs to arrive next week. The UERM and the TF10s have some of the most varying impedance curves and are very sensitive to output impedance. However, Average_Joe gave the 4g a 10/10 for hiss and 8.3 for Total Quality, High sensitivity IEMs.
   
  I would love to get one of those mini interconnects if anyone would sell me theirs.


----------



## KimChee

I personally found that I liked the 3G over the 4G, it has a nice dark sound signature, very warm, but with good sound stage and details and that tremendous bass boost.  The 4G might be a technically better sounding amp, but it was more neutral and boring to me, also the bass boost was diminished.  I am wondering if this was the general consensus, as Robert went back with a warmer sound more musical sound (Ive never heard the 4T just going by his own descriptions), and how the bass boost is compared to the 3G.  I've been thinking about seriously picking up a backup 3G, but I'm hoping the 4T is a good enough amp I could just get one, it would be easier, as I know Robert has a long production and longer repair time.


----------



## TekeRugburn

Quote: 





thegunner100 said:


> Interesting... Would be nice if some people with CIEMs or multi-driver BAs comment on the Arrow 4g/4t. I currently have a Arrow 4g and i'm waiting for my UERMs to arrive next week. The UERM and the TF10s have some of the most varying impedance curves and are very sensitive to output impedance. However, Average_Joe gave the 4g a 10/10 for hiss and 8.3 for Total Quality, High sensitivity IEMs.
> 
> I would love to get one of those mini interconnects if anyone would sell me theirs.


 
   
  getting UERM's?  you should be able to get any mini to mini from any cable maker haha.


----------



## thegunner100

Quote: 





tekerugburn said:


> getting UERM's?  you should be able to get any mini to mini from any cable maker haha.


 
  They're scheduled to be completed and shipped on the 23rd, I'm excited! I have the interconnect from fiio, as well as a DIY cable made by a head-fier, but I really like the form and size of the ones that come with the headstage arrows. I've contacted Rob about purchasing them directly from him, but he stated that he was low on stock on them and won't sell them separately.


----------



## proedros

the 1st bold quote answers your 2nd bold quote 
   
  Quote: 





kyuuketsuki said:


> So... after doing a lot of research on portable amps... I'm pretty decided on the Headstage Arrow 4G/T
> 
> So it looks like the 4G is a bit brighter than the 4T. I'm looking at either one due to power, battery life and size. I'm going to be using it with my ASG-1 (eventually 2s) and M-100s mostly. I've already demoed the 3G with the M-100s and enjoyed it. However for general usage, *I'd like the amp to be more neutral and transparent* just in case I get different headphones in the future.
> 
> ...


----------



## TekeRugburn

mmmmm


----------



## audionewbi

congrats.


----------



## Schokolade bar

Has anyone had a problem with the 4G/4T where it won't turn on even with a signal going through?


----------



## Whippler

Quote: 





schokolade bar said:


> Has anyone had a problem with the 4G/4T where it won't turn on even with a signal going through?


 
  Nope, but is your battery empty?


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Just ordered a 4g from a seller over at abi. I'm looking forward to it!


----------



## audionewbi

ER4S and arrow 4G produce a magical pairing. I kept these two gear just because of their pairing.


----------



## bitlisz

Yes, exactly same with my 4G.
  But also when charging gets very hot...and does not power on at all.
  I sent back to Robert 2 weeks ago, hope will be back soon.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

So I just got my 4G. And I think I'm in love already. 
   
  For one the size is a perfect match for my J3 (seriously, it is like they were made for each other). And then the sound is just fantastic. The treble boost set to 1 is perfect for my ASG-1.3s. Nearly completely correcting the issues I had with them in the treble region.
   
  I'm probably going to put it through its paces tomorrow. Should be interesting. But this is the best thing I've bought for my portable set up since I got my J3 (which doesn't have as much power as my D2)


----------



## mpawluk91

Somebody told me that the arrow 4g has a narrow/cramped soundstage because it has good midrange, my arrow 4g has excellent soundstage lol he's gotta be smokin crack.

I know grado's have poor soundstage but I don't think midrange is the reason


----------



## kyuuketsuki

mpawluk91 said:


> Somebody told me that the arrow 4g has a narrow/cramped soundstage because it has good midrange, my arrow 4g has excellent soundstage lol he's gotta be smokin crack.
> 
> I know grado's have poor soundstage but I don't think midrange is the reason




I haven't listened to enough tracks to make the call, but according to chesky's binaural tracks, this has pretty fantastic soundstage. The 4G that is.


----------



## mpawluk91

kyuuketsuki said:


> I haven't listened to enough tracks to make the call, but according to chesky's binaural tracks, this has pretty fantastic soundstage. The 4G that is.


You want to know what's funny is that I read that on anythingbutipod and they're always saying that headfi creates to many myths, this whole midrange/soundstage thing sounds like a myth to me lol

Hypocrite bastards


----------



## alv4426

To me the 4G made fullsize open headphones sound more closed/narrow than my other amps but it sounded great with IEMs (other than a slight lack of black background) and closed headphones. again this is IMO
   
  Headphones used HD650,AD2000, ESW9, JH5, TF10, T20RP, T50RP and probably a few others Im forgetting.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





alv4426 said:


> To me the 4G made fullsize open headphones sound more closed/narrow than my other amps but it sounded great with IEMs (other than a slight lack of black background) and closed headphones. again this is IMO
> 
> Headphones used HD650,AD2000, ESW9, JH5, TF10, T20RP, T50RP and probably a few others Im forgetting.


 
   
  Hm, interesting. I'm going to test it out on a lot of different things with a variety of headphones. So far there was no negative soundstage repercussions with Sennheiser HD598 or HiFi Man HE-400. I'm going to keep at it. I tested both out for a good 30 minutes. I might try some more orchestral and big band, see if that changes anything to my ears (I tested some, but only a couple of tracks). But thus far there has been no soundstage impact. But that is just to my ears.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





alv4426 said:


> To me the 4G made fullsize open headphones sound more closed/narrow than my other amps but it sounded great with IEMs (other than a slight lack of black background) and closed headphones. again this is IMO
> 
> Headphones used HD650,AD2000, ESW9, JH5, TF10, T20RP, T50RP and probably a few others Im forgetting.


 
   
  I'm not sure which headphones (or "other amps") you're using but I've found the 4G to be anything but "narrow' or "closed". A friend just bought some Senn HD800s and because he has not set up his main amps yet (due to a move) he's been using the 4G with them. He told me he couldn't believe the way the sound seemed projected into space. I realize this is a special attribute of the HD800s but if the Arrow couldn't produce a decent soundstage (and imaging) I'm sure he wouldn't have been quite so impressed.
   
  I sometimes use the Arrow with HD650s and binaural recordings sound spectacular through it. The only open headphones I see in your sig are the HD650s so I'm not sure why you're not hearing the same "space" I hear with the Arrow (unless you're comparing it to a good desktop amp, which is hardly fair).


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I sometimes use the Arrow with HD650s and binaural recordings sound spectacular through it. The only open headphones I see in your sig are the HD650s so I'm not sure why you're not hearing the same "space" I hear with the Arrow (unless you're comparing it to a good desktop amp, which is hardly fair).


 
   
  Have to second the Arrow as a great amp for full sized cans ...
   
  When I had mine, I used it with AKG 701's, LCD-2's, Grado GS1000's and a pair of Shure SRH840's and was blown away across the board ... and of course, I mean, relative to my typical desktop amp (a Ray Samuels Raptor) ...
   
  The Arrow wasn't the sonic equivalent of the Raptor amp and nor should one expect it to be but it did very very well with full sized cans, nonetheless... I was quite impressed.


----------



## thegunner100

The headstage arrow does well with the hd600s, but not as well as a desktop tube amp of course. It didn't match well with the Beyer T70s though, it was very bass light unless I turned the bass setting to II.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

I've tested out the Headstage Arrow 4G with several full sized cans, like the HD598, HE400 and a DT880 250ohm. It worked well with all of them, better than I had expected really. Can it match to a desktop amp? No, but I never expected it to, especially given its size. I did expect it to be able to drive aforementioned headphones and do it at least decently well. Which it did. I didn't really hear any diminished soundstage, and in some cases like the HE400 it increased it overall.


----------



## alv4426

You do realize I was comparing the amp to something else right? I never said its a terrible amp or anything like you seem to think I did. Its just that in the "soundstage" aspect *I *feel its not particularly spectacular but certainly not terrible, Id consider it good just not as good as my 3 current amps of which ALL were more expensive but I feel still comparable to the Arrow (which is all I meant before BTW). The Arrow 3G/4G were the amps I had for the longest time of all my amps and I do feel that they are really great, possibly the best combination possible for a portable amp. Look through my profile if you want to see what gear Ive used (There is a few more open headphones in there and you might even see what amps I am comparing to the Arrow as well).
   
   
  That being said I have recently upgraded my portable DAC from the Headstage USB DAC cable to a ODAC/Headamp DAC(Demo) and I think that was contributing to the soundstage complaints I was having. Unfortunately I don't have an Arrow anymore but I think both my portable amps are improved AB-ing DACs. And I definitely don't have golden ears or anything. 
  Quote: 





hellenback said:


> I'm not sure which headphones (or "other amps") you're using but I've found the 4G to be anything but "narrow' or "closed". A friend just bought some Senn HD800s and because he has not set up his main amps yet (due to a move) he's been using the 4G with them. He told me he couldn't believe the way the sound seemed projected into space. I realize this is a special attribute of the HD800s but if the Arrow couldn't produce a decent soundstage (and imaging) I'm sure he wouldn't have been quite so impressed.
> 
> I sometimes use the Arrow with HD650s and binaural recordings sound spectacular through it. The only open headphones I see in your sig are the HD650s so I'm not sure why you're not hearing the same "space" I hear with the Arrow (unless you're comparing it to a good desktop amp, which is hardly fair).


----------



## 276539

Headstage is a good match with most Senns products, (perhaps it is because they are both from Germany  )
  especially IE80 and IE800
   
  I personally recommend those who haven't tried these combinations to try it out.


----------



## mpawluk91

tobyblh said:


> Headstage is a good match with most Senns products, (perhaps it is because they are both from Germany  )
> especially IE80 and IE800
> 
> I personally recommend those who haven't tried these combinations to try it out.


My arrow 4g sounds like garbage when I plug in my sennheiser hd439


----------



## FieldingMellish

That's harsh.


----------



## mpawluk91

fieldingmellish said:


> That's harsh.


It sounds amazing with my ue 6000 and my grado sr225i


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





mpawluk91 said:


> It sounds amazing with my ue 6000 and my grado sr225i


 
   
  Any reasons why the Senn doesn't pair well with the HD439?


----------



## mpawluk91

kyuuketsuki said:


> Any reasons why the Senn doesn't pair well with the HD439?


I think u meant the arrow but its just my opinion, it makes it sound very dark. On the other hand the hd439 has amazing synergy with the c&c bh


----------



## Brooko

How the Arrow could make anything "sound dark" is beyond me. Which model do you have mpaluk91?

To me the 4G (no hardware EQ on) is pretty much "wire with gain" (transparent amplification).


----------



## kyuuketsuki

brooko said:


> How the Arrow could make anything "sound dark" is beyond me. Which model do you have mpaluk91?
> 
> To me the 4G (no hardware EQ on) is pretty much "wire with gain" (transparent amplification).




I feel the same. Mpaluk91 has the 4G iirc. Which is odd to me. Since it isn't a warm amp. And if it is it is so light that I don't notice it. And I don't exactly have a collection of bright headphones that would pair well with a warm amp.


----------



## nicks9

I can't find much info about the 4T model. I just ordered it, but I'm a little nervous.
  Are there any significant changes that would make the reviews of past models outdated?


----------



## Brooko

Quote: 





nicks9 said:


> I can't find much info about the 4T model. I just ordered it, but I'm a little nervous.
> Are there any significant changes that would make the reviews of past models outdated?


 
   
  4T is supposed to be 'warmer' sound than the 4G (ie has some colouration is the way I read it) - I personally found the 4G very flat/linear - definitely my pref YMMV.
   
  If the 4T isn't to your preference - then I'd suggest looking in the classified as there are a couple of 4Gs for sale, and I know one in particular is in practically new condition (mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## nicks9

Quote: 





brooko said:


> 4T is supposed to be 'warmer' sound than the 4G (ie has some colouration is the way I read it) - I personally found the 4G very flat/linear - definitely my pref YMMV.
> 
> If the 4T isn't to your preference - then I'd suggest looking in the classified as there are a couple of 4Gs for sale, and I know one in particular is in practically new condition (mine
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hmm. I feel like a warmer sound might benefit a lot of the music I listen to, especially folk and ambient stuff.
  I'll be using it with the E17 DAC + HD598, if that matters.


----------



## Brooko

Why would you not use the E17 as DAC and amp?  Why do you need the Arrow?  HD598 not exactly hard to drive either .....


----------



## nicks9

Quote: 





brooko said:


> Why would you not use the E17 as DAC and amp?  Why do you need the Arrow?  HD598 not exactly hard to drive either .....


 
   
  I don't exactly need it, but I just want a higher quality amp.
  There are a lot of people doing this, because apparently the E17 amp isn't that great.
  If I don't hear any real difference then I'll return it.


----------



## Brooko

Quote: 





nicks9 said:


> I don't exactly need it, but I just want a higher quality amp.
> There are a lot of people doing this, because apparently the E17 amp isn't that great.
> If I don't hear any real difference *then I'll return it.*


 
   
  Ok ......... you just might want to check out Robert's return policy first.  It's not like he's a big company like Amazon.
   
  I stills ay your best bet is buying used - then you can always resell without losing too much if it doesn't suit.


----------



## nicks9

Quote: 





brooko said:


> Ok ......... you just might want to check out Robert's return policy first.  It's not like he's a big company like Amazon.
> 
> I stills ay your best bet is buying used - then you can always resell without losing too much if it doesn't suit.


 
   
  I know, I don't plan on returning it but the site says "30 day money back guarantee". I'll email him about the details.
  The full 2 year warranty is part of why I want to buy it new.
  I'm using it with 598's now, but if I decide to buy high impedance headphones in the future I'll still be set.
   
  Honestly, the constant stream of conflicting opinions regarding the importance of amps is a little confusing.
  Some people say it's all about volume, but others are using expensive amps with IEMs and swear it improves the SQ a lot.
  I guess I'll be finding out for myself soon.


----------



## mpawluk91

I can tell that my arrow 4g is a tad dark, it balances my grados,

When I put the bass switch to 2 my sr225i sound perfect


----------



## Jazzyfi

Still waiting for Arrow 4T VS 4G comparison.. Anybody? I mailed Rob about upgrade and he said it will be available later this year. I think it should be pretty simple, desolder the old opamp and soldering the new one.


----------



## mpawluk91

jazzyfi said:


> Still waiting for Arrow 4T VS 4G comparison.. Anybody? I mailed Rob about upgrade and he said it will be available later this year. I think it should be pretty simple, desolder the old opamp and soldering the new one.


It might be fun to have both tho


----------



## krismusic

I'm using the 4g with Senn IE8's + iPhone 4S and am very happy with the sound. When I bought my Arrow recently Robert said that I could return it if I didn't like it. I think he knows that isn't going to happen!


----------



## thegunner100

Anyone with the 4T yet? Curious as to how it sounds compared to the 4g. The UHA-6S blows away the arrow, but is not nearly as portable.


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





thegunner100 said:


> Anyone with the 4T yet? Curious as to how it sounds compared to the 4g. The UHA-6S blows away the arrow, but is not nearly as portable.


 
   
  Blows it away how? Personally the 3G was awesome but could use a little refinement and that's what I'm hoping for with the 4T but I want them to keep the same over the top bonkers bass as the 3G. Either way though for the money there still is nothing else out there that can do all that the Arrow does. Run both the T1 and  HD800's at the same time on the first gain level run the HE-6 with little problem, stupid long battery life, great sound, and all in a small but mighty well built package... 
   
  Yes Yes I know... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Why the hell did I sell my Arrow LOL!!
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## DemonFox

I'm also waiting for the 4T review of any sort but I think I'll buy one when I have the funds ready and do it myself. I have a feeling that its going to take everything great about the 3G and improve on it. At least I hope lol Either way its still going to be an awesome amp. Not a fan of them raising the price to $329 from $299 but if its a real improvement than no problem there.
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## thegunner100

I didn't mean to exaggerate, it's not exactly night and day. What I noticed was that the uha-6s had better separation and sound staging compared to the arrow. It's just overall more refined. I try to not over-analyze the differences though, so perhaps someone else who has both of them can chime in. The two amps both have different uses for me: the arrow as my portable and the uha-6s as my transportable/desktop for my uerms.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





thegunner100 said:


> I didn't mean to exaggerate, it's not exactly night and day. What I noticed was that the uha-6s had better separation and sound staging compared to the arrow. It's just overall more refined. I try to not over-analyze the differences though, so perhaps someone else who has both of them can chime in. The two amps both have different uses for me: the arrow as my portable and the uha-6s as my transportable/desktop for my uerms.


 
   
   
  You know if I was still in school I'd actually consider the UHA-6S MKII for a transportable rig. However, I really don't need it anymore, so I probably won't drop the cash. I'd rather spend it on other headphones.


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





thegunner100 said:


> I didn't mean to exaggerate, it's not exactly night and day. What I noticed was that the uha-6s had better separation and sound staging compared to the arrow. It's just overall more refined. I try to not over-analyze the differences though, so perhaps someone else who has both of them can chime in. The two amps both have different uses for me: the arrow as my portable and the uha-6s as my transportable/desktop for my uerms.


 
   
  That totally makes sense. That was the reason why I sold my Arrow. I still miss it and wish I would have left well enough alone but that was a issue for me. The sound was very closed in but the bass and power made up for the short comings. 
   
  The UHA-6s MKIII is owning a lot of the competition right now so it really wouldn't surprise me if it was better! The Arrow is great at what it does but clearly has its short comings. Hopefully the 4T will address this and make the new Arrow legendary!
   
   
  Fingers Crossed 
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## nicks9

I've had the 4T for almost 2 weeks now, and I absolutely love it.
  Just a disclaimer: I don't really own any "high-end" audio equipment, so I'm probably much easier to impress than most people here.
  The Arrow was intended to be an upgrade over the Fiio E17's amp, which I use as my main dac/amp right now with the HD 598 (my best headphones at the moment).
  I felt that they weren't reaching their full potential with the E17, like something was missing.
  Fortunately, I was right. With the Arrow the difference is very apparent. 
   
  I can't understand how people think that the 598's don't benefit much from a good amp, just because they're low impedance.
  The soundstage was great to begin with, but with the Arrow (+E17 DAC) it reaches another level. 
  Instrument separation is amazing.
  The biggest difference is in noisy music, such as early Nine Inch Nails. I'm hearing nuances in the production that I didn't even notice before.
  Bass is more powerful and natural. Everything is just smoother and more pleasant.
  Not to mention the actual build quality of this thing, which is fantastic.
   
  Sorry that I couldn't give a real, in-depth review of the 4T. I'm simply not qualified to do so.
  I'll just say that as someone who listens to music every day, this amp is worth every penny.


----------



## Stoney

I'm looking for an improvement over my 4G:
   
  Would love to see a comparison between 4G and 4T. 
  Also interested in opinions on the ultimate portable amp (Such as RSA SR-71B?).


----------



## midnightwalker

Received the 4T couple days ago. The sound quality is great. I prefer the 4T to the 4G. Will need to spend more time on this for the comparison.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

midnightwalker said:


> Received the 4T couple days ago. The sound quality is great. I prefer the 4T to the 4G. Will need to spend more time on this for the comparison.




Can you tell which is more neutral? I can believe the overall sound would be better on 4T, but I got 4G because I heard it was more neutral than the 4T. If this is not so I might try to trade for 4T or sell my 4G do I could get a 4T. Despite only owning it for a short while.


----------



## musicbased

Sorry for this basic question,but I'm just wondering if the switches on the amp can change the er4p to the s?-So I wouldn't need to use the adapter anymore?


----------



## Oof Oink

midnightwalker said:


> Received the 4T couple days ago. The sound quality is great. I prefer the 4T to the 4G. Will need to spend more time on this for the comparison.




Subscribed, and looking forward to your comparison.


----------



## labrat




----------



## musicbased

Hahaha,ok never mind.Ill keep an eye out for one of those!
What is the impedance switch on the right though?
Or is that something different?


----------



## musicbased

Oh I see,I was looking at an older version..
Looks like the impedance is now treble boost instead.Not sure i'll need treble boost for my ER4!


----------



## krismusic

musicbased said:


> Oh I see,I was looking at an older version..
> 
> Looks like the impedance is now treble boost instead.Not sure i'll need treble boost for my ER4!



I think I am right in saying that on the 4G impedance selection is automatic and internal.


----------



## labrat




----------



## musicbased

Personally, i love the ER4S.I've been using them for many years. Even though i have the P, i always use the converter, and would like to change to S permanently sometime.(Which is why it would have been convenient if the amp could do it).
  I actually like the bass too!- i just feel it's maybe 10% less than i would like in the lower frequencies..Getting a good seal is really important.
  If this amp could bring up the sub bass a bit i think it would be perfect!-I've seen quite a few people in this thread saying what a good combination it is with ER4, so i think i've pretty much decided to get one! ...
   
  ...Just have to sell my Hifiman hm-801 first though.
   
  Actually,on that note, does anyone know how this compares to the Hifiman HM-801?


----------



## Stoney

Impedance is rarely "selected." An amp with low output impedance is able to drive headphones of any impedance so long as it is still high relative to the amp output impedance.  Otherwise, the impedance curve shape of the headphone will affect the frequency response curve shape and be audible as coloration.


----------



## Hellenback

Hopefully it won't be long before my 4T ships. I'm looking forward to doing a comparison.


----------



## musicbased

is there a delay between ordering and it being sent?


----------



## snapple10

Have not used the Arrow 4G in awhile due to the  hiss I hear with W4 ( my main IEM).
  Yesterday I changed to  Heir's magnus 1 cable and nothing but the music
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





- no hiss, at least not yet but it has about 24 hours
  Not sure what that means but I am going to be using the Arrow more these days and the battery life is like no other in my collections
   
  To no hiss/ buzz/ hum


----------



## Rafaell

I didnt read all the posts on this thread, but if someone could tell me if the arrow 4g is good enough for the Senn HD650 + iMod, i would really appreciate the advice!


----------



## rudi0504

rafaell said:


> I didnt read all the posts on this thread, but if someone could tell me if the arrow 4g is good enough for the Senn HD650 + iMod, i would really appreciate the advice!




Source : iMod
Amp : Arrow 4 G
Headphone : Sennheiser HD 650 
Cable : Lod to USB with resistor for your iMod
SQ : is very good in high gain , treble and bass plus 1 setting 
 IMO


----------



## snapple10

Arrow does justice for my my hd600
IPC> hp-pl > arrow 4g> hd600> happy brain 
All settings to zero


----------



## bitlisz

I had sent my amp almost 60 days back for repair...and did not get back till now.
   
  Previously (last October) I sent my amp back for upgrade (3G->4G) and was 60 days to receive back (in December).
   
  He is answering about every 3rd emails...(SUM 16 emails, so far...)
   
  Anyone has this bad experience about any other customer service?
   
  I think for this niche market product need much better service. Even if so good sounding and practical design.


----------



## s1rrah

With shure se535 ... I still prefer the punchier bass of the 3G ... Just works better for my ear.


----------



## Stoney

With the Arrow 4G, I found that the gain switch has effects on frequency response (after readjusting to equal volume), namely the character of the treble and how forward or flat the midrange is.  Gain itself, assuming it plays loud enough, or doesn't have noise, doesn't have anything to do with this.... Interaction seems to be with the impedance of the headhphones and the amp's output impedance which probably changes with gain.  Just test closely. 
   
  I can't recall if I preferred gain 1 or 2 with HD650.  Left everything else flat. Listen for smoother, less sibilant treble. 
   
  I use gain 0 with my PFE 232, everything else at 0 also.  The PFE has emphasis on bass and treble, and I found the treble was smoother at gain 0 along with a fuller midrange to counter the v-shaped response of the PFE 232.  
   
  I've upgraded my HD650 setup to a Ray Samuels SR-71B amp (still unbalanced cabling).  Much more authority and clarity, but at 2.5 x the price (and size) of the Arrow, I think it serves to recommend the lower-cost 4G owing to the relatively modest sonic differences.


----------



## musicbased

What is the frequency and amount of boost on the bass switch?


----------



## jimhar

Have had my 4T for about 2 weeks. It does sound good to me paired w/a Samsung 4S and V-100 headphones. I left everything flat except for +1 on the treble boost because the phones appear to roll off some on the highs. Delivery took about 1.5 weeks after order and payment, shipped from China (someone over there makes this for the seller). I sent him two emails and he answered within 2 days for each one. Overall I'm satisfied with the purchase (and this is first experience with this portable situation).


----------



## bitlisz

Was also ok when I bought, arrived within 1week.
   
  These issues happened when upgrading and wehn sent back to repair...
  Anyway I can proove anytime what happened to me, twice, 60days scam.
  Nonexisting customer service. Like with any low level Chinese copyphone selling site.
   
  I cannot recommend this to anyone.


----------



## Stoney

Running a shoestring company and ramping up a new design can be fraught with problems, including in China.  I can imagine him trying to reserve production line time, working through quality issues given the low skill level available, parts delays, holidays, even bribes... it is a lot harder than it seems.
   
  Back a while ago, my 4G came fast, and it is unrivalled at the price.


----------



## krismusic

I had very quick delivery and rapid answers to all my emails (quite a few) when I ordered the 4G recently. When I queried the fact that it arrived from China Robert told me that he had actually gone over to China to oversea production and QC. He seems totally committed to producing an outstanding product and probably gets overwhelmed from time to time. Frustrating when it happens I am certain but the amp is terrific IMHO.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





bitlisz said:


> Was also ok when I bought, arrived within 1week.
> 
> These issues happened when upgrading and wehn sent back to repair...
> Anyway I can proove anytime what happened to me, twice, 60days scam.
> ...


 
   
  @*bitlisz*
   
  1. You say he answers 1 in 3 emails which IMO is not "non-existing" customer service. Try running a business like this and see how many emails _you_ answer.
   
  2. You mention your upgrade...who else offers them?
   
  3. You can_ prove_ a 60 day scam but you _received_ an upgraded amp (for very little money)? Remind me never to do business with you.
   
  Robert moved to China to oversee quality control despite the fact he didn't speak the language...hardly a low level Chinese "copyphone" selling site (whatever that is)
   
  There have been many people who waited while Robert either upgraded the amp or dealt with inevitable problems that arise in what is basically a one man enterprise. He may be slow to respond at times but has never scammed anyone that I know of.
   
  Finally,
   
  In a thread titled: *"Reviews, Impressions, Perceptions & Sensations" *If you can't say something useful or helpful regarding the amp itself maybe you should buy another of the hundreds of amps now available in this so-called "niche" market.
   
  The Arrow is a great amp with about the best form factor I've seen and some of the beast SQ I've heard. I know people with other very expensive portable amps who now use the Arrow almost exclusively.  Any minimal SQ difference another larger portable amp_ might_ provide (often different rather than better) is outweighed by the convenience/functions of the Arrow.
   
  In contrast to your negative comment I *highly* recommend any generation of the Arrow (I still own and use a 1st gen as well as my main 4G)


----------



## Stoney

I would buy again, for reasons as stated. 
  And I'd wait 2 months in order to support the enterprise.


----------



## bitlisz

This email is on their webpage.
  Emails/Issue/complaint/feedback handling - as these are part of the customer support - are key tasks for business.
  Not only receiving payment.
   
  I am also working with chinese guys...I know that they different business ethics, but I did not expected this from Germany, at all.
   
  I can support their enterprise with wait for 2 months, but when twice the same waiting issue...
   
  Even if the product is so good (until if works).
   
  And I am switching to Apex Glacier now.
   
  And about the business with you...this is far more personal. I will report this next time, and case closed from my point.


----------



## bitlisz

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> In a thread titled: *"Reviews, Impressions, Perceptions & Sensations" *If you can't say something useful or helpful regarding the amp itself maybe you should buy another of the hundreds of amps now available in this so-called "niche" market.


 
  I am sorry, I did not noticed till now that at least 3 threads for shipping issues:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/574116/delivery-of-headstage-arrow-he-4g
http://www.head-fi.org/t/661976/headstage-arrow-approximate-shipping-time
http://www.head-fi.org/t/528039/shipping-on-headstage-arrow-12he-3g
  And one thread about almost same battery issue as for me:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/592897/headstage-arrow-battery-problems
   
  Or in this forum only positíve comments approved?
  Then this must be in the title.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





bitlisz said:


> I am sorry, I did not noticed till now that at least 3 threads for shipping issues:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/574116/delivery-of-headstage-arrow-he-4g
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/661976/headstage-arrow-approximate-shipping-time
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/528039/shipping-on-headstage-arrow-12he-3g
> ...


 
   
  Is it JUST the battery? If so, I'd just order the new battery, get a torx driver, open the Arrow and replace it myself. There is really no need to send it back if it is JUST the battery. If it kept dying after the replacement, only then would I contact Robert about possible issues. 
   
  Keep in mind that he used batteries from Apple products which is both a curse and a blessing. The curse is that they have a terrible longevity issue. I stopped buying iPods because after a year they lost the ability to hold a charge (with the amount I used and charged them, I'm assuming the Arrow is better off in this regard because it is JUST powering the amp and not everything else that would be in an iPod, thus have a longer battery life overall). So for me, I got mine second hand after two users... I'm pretty much expecting having to change the battery in a few months to a year. Right now it is perfectly functional, and having a longer battery life than I even expected. I'm charging my Arrow and my J3 pretty much in tandem almost (there is slight disconnect due to me getting the Arrow fully charged and using it with my J3 which hadn't been charged for a while). But if it drops off severely I'm not going to be at all surprised because every single last iPod I've ever owned had that issue after a while. And though not every iPod experiences that battery drainage problem, I know that the batteries Apple uses can have that issue (I probably just got 3 not good batteries in my iPods) and often enough to be ready to have to make the change myself. 
   
  Which brings me to the blessing... They are so easy to change a child could do it! After you open it, all you need to do is unplug the old one and plug in the new one. That's it. I'm pretty sure Robert did that on purpose so that people could replace it on their own if necessary.


----------



## KimChee

I've replaced the battery in an arrow before, I used an older apple photo battery and it seemed to work pretty well. Also you can get them for cheap and you just unplug the old battery and plug in the new battery it's held down with scotch tape. 

Is try this before I sent it off, but it may be a charging won't hold a charge issue that Robert may need to fix


----------



## bitlisz

The problem was only similar, but root cause was the charging chip (this is rare).
  I guess the battery replacement didnot solve


----------



## krismusic

kyuuketsuki said:


> I'm pretty sure Robert did that on purpose so that people could replace it on their own if necessary.



That's why there are two ugly great screws in the casing. 
Incidentally. The day we can only post positive comments about a product is the day that this forum becomes useless. 
Although I love the Arrow and had a perfectly good buying experience from Robert. Bad customer service is bad customer service whatever the reasons. Robert is taking a reasonable amount of a customers money. The customer deserves reasonable service. People need to be aware that there may be issues and that they may need to be patient when ordering this product.


----------



## kyuuketsuki

Quote: 





bitlisz said:


> The problem was only similar, but root cause was the charging chip (this is rare).
> I guess the battery replacement didnot solve


 
   
  That stinks... Good luck getting it fixed/replaced by Robert then  
   
  Quote: 





krismusic said:


> That's why there are two ugly great screws in the casing.
> Incidentally. The day we can only post positive comments about a product is the day that this forum becomes useless.
> Although I love the Arrow and had a perfectly good buying experience from Robert. Bad customer service is bad customer service whatever the reasons. Robert is taking a reasonable amount of a customers money. The customer deserves reasonable service. People need to be aware that there may be issues and that they may need to be patient when ordering this product.


 
   
  Yeah,but I don't consider them ugly. If they were a garish different colour then yeah, but they aren't. Besides... I never see them.
   
  As for the negative comments/CS issue. I agree on both. I haven't had to deal with Robert yet, but he should have a separate system for CS support. Perhaps he can train someone.


----------



## bitlisz

I have received "something" and works fine! As Robert stated this is 4T and have tube sound. 
From outside I cannot tell this is 4G or 4T at all, because everything looks similar (case/switches).
Just now found on board layout some difference (below right side screw), as maybe this op amp replaced with some components.
I wonder now which op amp in it. <-updated
  But seems the EMI noise lowered by much, but still there (10/8 -> 10/3). I still need to switch to airplane mode with SGS3.
  However about the sound I cannot tell without ABX any special.
_I do not hear any special ("warm", "rich" ?), same good sound. I hope he not introduced some even order distorsion. Maybe (maybe) a bit more low end bass._
  I have made again picture.
  4T:

  4G:

  3G:


----------



## musicbased

My experience of buying an arrow didn't go very well!
  I decided to buy one last week, i was choosing between the arrow or jds labs C5, mainly for the bass boost.
  Anyway, finally decided to go for the Arrow, so ordered one from the website, and chose to pay with Paypal, but unfortunately the link to Paypal messed up and it said i had been timed out.
   
  This resulted in me having an order email with order number, but no way of paying for it!
  No problem, so i emailed Robert to tell him what happened, and received nothing back.
   
  I waited a few days, then i bought the C5!-A question i asked jds labs about the charger was answered within 10 minutes, and it was sent within 30 minutes.
   
  I'm still waiting to hear from Robert!
   
  Good customer service is so important. You need to know you will be looked after if anything goes wrong..


----------



## SaigonGrandFunk

I think the paypal issue has helped you there. C5 is a better amp if your preference is bass quantity and power ( I sold my C5 because I got too much bass when matched it with XBA40/HM602, I found C5 is better for RE262/272). I then got a 4G from Robert, the Arrow has better synergy with my setup, I was a bit lucky that did not have order/service problems however I did have to wait 3 weeks to receive the amp and there always a delay in mail reply. Agree that Robert customer service is not satisfactory but at least the amp is of good quality and performance.


----------



## DemonFox

saigongrandfunk said:


> I think the paypal issue has helped you there. C5 is a better amp if your preference is bass quantity and power ( I sold my C5 because I got too much bass when matched it with XBA40/HM602, I found C5 is better for RE262/272). I then got a 4G from Robert, the Arrow has better synergy with my setup, I was a bit lucky that did not have order/service problems however I did have to wait 3 weeks to receive the amp and there always a delay in mail reply. Agree that Robert customer service is not satisfactory but at least the amp is of good quality and performance.




Did the bass on the 4G take a major dive? How is that possible? The bass on my 3G is unlike anything I've ever heard! Plus the power was intoxicating. Only amp I've ever had that could fully power my LCD's and give them huge quality kick in the bass department. Are you saying the C5 is better overall than the 4G?? That's sounds a bit far fetched but seeing that I haven't owned one yet or heard one I'll have to take your advice.


Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## jimhar

My new 4T has more than enough bass, especially when the music demands it, i.e. not boomy, but deep when needed. As far as emails, I received replies the next day, no big deal when you remember that Germany is 6 hours ahead of us. Also, I did not have any problems with paying by Paypal.


----------



## musicbased

Lucky you.
I'm sure it's a great amp.


----------



## Stoney

Thanks for posting the pictures.  
   
  To whomever:
  I look forward to detailed comparisons with the 4G and 4T.  
  (Please list associated equipment and music resolution.)


----------



## SaigonGrandFunk

[size=medium]To my setup, the C5 has more bass quantity than 4G, therefore it does not work well with XBA40 sub woofer. The 4G is clearly better than C5 in terms of music presentation, details and defined bass, and  C5 is darker when ABed with 4G, however I found C5 worked with RE262/272 better. [/size]
  [size=medium]So it is quite depending on a person music setup. And the difference is also come with extra cost for 4G, however IMO is worth to pay extra  100 usd to have the 4G.[/size]


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> *Or in this forum only positíve comments approved?*
> *Then this must be in the title.*


 
   
  To answer your question; No, not only positive feedback is approvedd/wanted but there is a dedicated thread for delivery comments.
   
delivery-of-headstage-arrow


----------



## midnightwalker

Quote: 





musicbased said:


> My experience of buying an arrow didn't go very well!
> I decided to buy one last week, i was choosing between the arrow or jds labs C5, mainly for the bass boost.
> Anyway, finally decided to go for the Arrow, so ordered one from the website, and chose to pay with Paypal, but unfortunately the link to Paypal messed up and it said i had been timed out.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You can send money directly to Robert paypal account: [size=13.600000381469727px]mail@headstage.com[/size] then leave a note on your order id.


----------



## krismusic

midnightwalker said:


> You can send money directly to Robert paypal account: [size=13.600000381469727px]mail@headstage.com[/size]
> then leave a note on your order id.



Like you would send money to someone who isn't responding to emails.


----------



## musicbased

Quote: 





midnightwalker said:


> You can send money directly to Robert paypal account: [size=13.600000381469727px]mail@headstage.com[/size] then leave a note on your order id.


 
   
  Quote: 





krismusic said:


> Like you would send money to someone who isn't responding to emails.


 
  Thanks for that info,but yes, i would certainly be reluctant to send any money without hearing anything..
   
  He did reply in the end,a week later, but i've already ordered the C5 now anyway.
   
  I definitely don't want to say anything bad about Robert or the arrow amp because I'm sure he is totally trustworthy, and that the amp is great. He has always replied to my emails in the end, I just found the service a bit too slow for my liking. Like i said before, it's not so bad before ordering it, but if something were to go wrong with the amp, the slow replies/service may become more problematic for me.


----------



## cmasia

Does anyone have a link to the user manual for the 4G?
   
  The old Danny Tang link no longer works.
   
  Cheers!
   
  PS: Still love this amp with an IPod Classic and Ety4's with custom molds.


----------



## mpawluk91

The arrow 4g sounds amazing with my shure srh840


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





mpawluk91 said:


> The arrow 4g sounds amazing with my shure srh840


 
   
  I agree ... when I had my 3G Arrow, the 840's were some of my favorite cans with them. Great drive and punchy bass ...


----------



## mpawluk91

s1rrah said:


> I agree ... when I had my 3G Arrow, the 840's were some of my favorite cans with them. Great drive and punchy bass ...


I literally just opened my srh840's like 3 hors ago lol

But I can tell they're already a good match.

What should I expect from burning in the shure's? Any changes/improvements?


----------



## DemonFox

Got my 3G back from the guy I sold it to and so very happy. God I missed this thing.
   
  Right now I have it paired with my old school iPod Video 5.5 Gen>Arrow 3G>Magnus1-IC>TH600
   
  Heaven...
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





mpawluk91 said:


> I literally just opened my srh840's like 3 hors ago lol
> 
> But I can tell they're already a good match.
> 
> What should I expect from burning in the shure's? Any changes/improvements?


 
   
  I bought my pair used and so they already had a good amount of play time on them. So I can't really answer that...


----------



## Stoney

Quote: 





cmasia said:


> Does anyone have a link to the user manual for the 4G?
> 
> The old Danny Tang link no longer works.


 
   
   
  I have one. 
  http://sonolithics.com/files/Arrow_Manual_Headstage_4G.pdf


----------



## mpawluk91

s1rrah said:


> I bought my pair used and so they already had a good amount of play time on them. So I can't really answer that...


Damn lol


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

So its AD8397 for the new Arrow 4N : 
http://www.headstage.com/Arrow-4N/4T/Headstage-Arrow-4N::10144.html?XTCsid=15f47dc755a0a58511c7d9ded9cd682b
   
  And AD8620 for Arrow 4T:
http://www.headstage.com/Arrow-4N/4T/Headstage-Arrow-4T::10150.html?XTCsid=15f47dc755a0a58511c7d9ded9cd682b


----------



## mpawluk91

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> So its AD8397 for the new Arrow 4N :
> http://www.headstage.com/Arrow-4N/4T/Headstage-Arrow-4N::10144.html?XTCsid=15f47dc755a0a58511c7d9ded9cd682b
> 
> And AD8620 for Arrow 4T:
> http://www.headstage.com/Arrow-4N/4T/Headstage-Arrow-4T::10150.html?XTCsid=15f47dc755a0a58511c7d9ded9cd682b


Now there's an arrow 4n lol


----------



## Vidmaven

mpawluk91 said:


> Now there's an arrow 4n lol


The 4N is actually a 4G with an 8397 op amp installed. 
For those that are interested Headphonia is offering refurbished 3Gs with the 8397 op amp for $149.


----------



## musicinmymind

3Gs does not have [size=11.199999809265137px]Treble Switch, otherwise I would have jumped on this offer[/size]


----------



## Vidmaven

musicinmymind said:


> 3Gs does not have
> [size=11.199999809265137px]Treble Switch, otherwise I would have jumped on this offer[/size]


From Headphonia's 3G page:The 3G has an impedance switch (instead of a treble switch), a much tighter bass boost and a slightly higher gain setting.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





vidmaven said:


> The 4N is actually a 4G with an 8397 op amp installed.
> For those that are interested Headphonia is offering refurbished 3Gs with the 8397 op amp for $149.


 
   
  If you are a Shure SE530/535 user .. you do not want to pass this up. The bass boost circuit of the 3G is far superior to any other version with the SE535's ... 
   
  I had no idea this was the case and will be buying one straight away. Deal of the century for SE535 users. The 4G variants sound good too but the tighter/punchier bass frequency of the 3G is far better to my ear than the 4G's more subtle approach. I've tried both amps extensively...
   
  Thanks for that information, BTW ... is it listed on the site or should we email Robert directly?


----------



## Vidmaven

s1rrah said:


> If you are a Shure SE530/535 user .. you do not want to pass this up. The bass boost circuit of the 3G is far superior to any other version with the SE535's ...
> 
> I had no idea this was the case and will be buying one straight away. Deal of the century for SE535 users. The 4G variants sound good too but the tighter/punchier bass frequency of the 3G is far better to my ear than the 4G's more subtle approach. I've tried both amps extensively...
> 
> Thanks for that information, BTW ... is it listed on the site or should we email Robert directly?


edited


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





vidmaven said:


> http://www.headstage.com/Arrow-3G-Refurbished/Refurbished-Arrow-G3::10149.html?XTCsid=15f47dc755a0a58511c7d9ded9cd682b


 
   
  Fantastic...
   
  I had spoken with Robert about six months ago re: ordering a 3G from him and he said at the time that he was waiting for delivery of some new cases for the 3G refurbs ... guess he got all that suss'd.
   
  Can't wait to get my hands on another 3G ... and the 2 year warranty is awesome as well.
   
  Thanks again ...


----------



## mpawluk91

I have a arrow 4g and I love it but I was wondering which arrow amp has the best soundstage?


----------



## proedros

what's the difference between the bass in the 3G and the 4N ?
   
  even though i have a 4N and i am completely satisfied ,  i am thinking of buying a 3G as backup
   
  for that kind of money, looks like it's worth it
   
  little luxuries for the audio freaks.


----------



## alv4426

How did you get a 4N so fast? Or did you mean 4T?
  Quote: 





proedros said:


> what's the difference between the bass in the 3G and the 4N ?
> 
> even though i have a 4N and i am completely satisfied ,  i am thinking of buying a 3G as backup
> 
> ...


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





proedros said:


> what's the difference between the bass in the 3G and the 4N ?
> 
> even though i have a 4N and i am completely satisfied ,  i am thinking of buying a 3G as backup
> 
> ...


 
   
  The 3G's bass emphasis is a much "punchier" bass boost ... emphasizing kick drums and the snappier punch in songs ... whereas the 4N's would be considered a smoother, less noticeable but possibly "deeper" sub bass emphasis ..
   
  For very flat IEM's like the SE535's or the Ety's ER-4P's ... the 3G's bass boost is super fun and effective ... I don't know about other IEM's really as I've always preferred very neutral sound signatures...
   
  But your right ... for that kind of money, it's ridiculous not to buy one. That's a top performing portable (some would say one of the best ever) with a two year warranty for just over 150 bucks. Ridiculous ...
   
  I'm buying for sure...


----------



## InsideTM

s1rrah said:


> The 3G's bass emphasis is a much "punchier" bass boost ... emphasizing kick drums and the snappier punch in songs ... whereas the 4N's would be considered a smoother, less noticeable but possibly "deeper" sub bass emphasis ..
> 
> For very flat IEM's like the SE535's or the Ety's ER-4P's ... the 3G's bass boost is super fun and effective ... I don't know about other IEM's really as I've always preferred very neutral sound signatures...




I've got 535s with a 4G and as much as I'm tempted by the 3G for the extra bass I don't think I could cope without treble boost at 1. I tried listening without it for an hour and the moment I switched it back on I realised how much I like it!

Think I'm just going to wait and hope a future upgrade steps up the bass a notch or two...


----------



## Stoney

I have the Shure SE530, and what they need most is a treble boost.  Badly need it.  I would not consider any amp wtihout that feature.  Even with it, my Shure are way below my Phonak PFE 232 in detail and enjoyment.  But I can understand some like the ultra warm smooth midrange of the Shure. 
   
  Also, the Arrow gain settings I use differ depending on the earphones.  There is an interaction between the two, such that the sound signature of gain 0, I, and II differ as you change headphones.  On my HD650, I want the extended and smooth setting of gain I (IIRC) but for the Phonak, I require fuller midrange, so I use the 0 gain.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





insidetm said:


> I've got 535s with a 4G and as much as I'm tempted by the 3G for the extra bass I don't think I could cope without treble boost at 1. I tried listening without it for an hour and the moment I switched it back on I realised how much I like it!
> 
> Think I'm just going to wait and hope a future upgrade steps up the bass a notch or two...


 
   
  Well there you have it then ...
   
  Happy listening!
   
  .joel


----------



## audionewbi

Seems like there are two variation, the 4T(tubey sound based on AD8620) and 4N(netural based on  AD8397 ).


----------



## s1rrah

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Seems like there are two variation, the 4T(tubey sound based on AD8620) and 4N(netural based on  AD8397 ).


 
   
  Dude, seriously.
   
  Excepting the 3g .. which has a markedly different bass boost?
   
  Going from 4T to 4N and what not? ... save your breath. Sure, they might emply different circuits ... but the tone is, roughly, the same. .
   
  ...
   
  (I am only the messenger)
   
  ....


----------



## audionewbi

I am still chilling with the 4G, I'll leave the experimenting for others and I do hope the change is minor to nothing at all. To this day I am still amazed on how much battery life this thing has in such form, truly a great design.


----------



## krismusic

s1rrah said:


> Dude, seriously.
> .
> 
> Excepting the 3g .. which has a markedly different bass boost?
> ...



You've heard the different models? I'd be surprised if Robert would bother with different versions if they were not different flavours.


----------



## krismusic

audionewbi said:


> I am still chilling with the 4G, I'll leave the experimenting for others and I do hope the change is minor to nothing at all. To this day I am still amazed on how much battery life this thing has in such form, truly a great design.



Even if the new models are different I doubt that they are better. The 4G is more than good enough for me. Agree about battery and form factor too.


----------



## musicinmymind

I ordered a 3G end of last month, still item is not shipped and no replay for emails


----------



## Vidmaven

musicinmymind said:


> I ordered a 3G end of last month, still item is not shipped and no replay for emails


the only 3Gs they're selling are the refurbs that they clearly state they arent shipping until mid August. 


http://www.headstage.com/Arrow-3G-Refurbished/Refurbished-Arrow-G3::10149.html?XTCsid=1902bfd5656ce7ffee37ebfcd31a2837


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





vidmaven said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, I must wait for some more time....one replay to mails would have been good though


----------



## Whippler

Quote: 





vidmaven said:


> the only 3Gs they're selling are the refurbs that they clearly state they arent shipping until mid August.
> 
> 
> http://www.headstage.com/Arrow-3G-Refurbished/Refurbished-Arrow-G3::10149.html?XTCsid=1902bfd5656ce7ffee37ebfcd31a2837


 
  it's mid August already


----------



## Bobo Fret

Stupid question but can the 4T be charged on a USB cable with an A/C adapter like with a cell phone or must it be plugged into a computer? Wasn't sure if there were any voltage issues to be aware of.


----------



## audionewbi

bobo fret said:


> Stupid question but can the 4T be charged on a USB cable with an A/C adapter like with a cell phone or must it be plugged into a computer? Wasn't sure if there were any voltage issues to be aware of.


Yea I charge mine with apple charger no problem so far.


----------



## Bobo Fret

Denke schön


----------



## Frankyspanky

I was thinking of ordering a fiio E12, but since I saw the Headstage amps I think I found the right amp for me. Can anyone help me decide between: 
  New or Refurbished 
  And: 4N or 4T. 
   
  cheers


----------



## KimChee

I've been looking at the 3G refurbs, I might use one for my computer setup..


----------



## musicinmymind

I ordered for 3G one month back and did paypal dispute few days back, as I did not get product or replay to my emails.


----------



## Vidmaven

I just got an email Friday letting me know my amps shipping out this week.


----------



## travelfotografe

I emailed headstage and received a reply last Friday: "Robert is still working on the amps and he really make it carefully. But I am sure you will enjoy it even more because of the great quality!"
   
  Anyone who wants an Arrow amp should be prepared for the wait. I waited 4 months for my first G3


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





travelfotografe said:


> I emailed headstage and received a reply last Friday: "Robert is still working on the amps and he really make it carefully. But I am sure you will enjoy it even more because of the great quality!"
> 
> Anyone who wants an Arrow amp should be prepared for the wait. I waited 4 months for my first G3


 
   
  Even for refurbished amps??


----------



## travelfotografe

musicinmymind said:


> Even for refurbished amps??


 
  
 My first G3 was a new amp, and that was when the G3 was just released, thus the long delay.
  
 It doesn't matter if it is a new amp or a refurbished amp (I also ordered a refurbished G3 more than a month ago). The thing is an arrow amp might take just 2 weeks to show up or it might take much longer to show up, just be patient and be mentally prepared for a possible extended wait. But, the amp is worth the wait.


----------



## mpawluk91

In the meanwhile just build up your music library and let your ears rest, they're going to need it haha.

That's what I do


----------



## alpha421

travelfotografe said:


> I emailed headstage and received a reply last Friday: "Robert is still working on the amps and he really make it carefully. But I am sure you will enjoy it even more because of the great quality!"


 
  
 I received the same response from Lisa and that it would ship next week (this week) regarding my refurb G3.  I'm curious how accurate they are with the true shipping day/week.  Do you get a tracking number or does it just poof, and unexpectedly arrive in your mailbox?


----------



## Vidmaven

alpha421 said:


> I received the same response from Lisa and that it would ship next week (this week) regarding my refurb G3.  I'm curious how accurate they are with the true shipping day/week.  Do you get a tracking number or does it just poof, and unexpectedly arrive in your mailbox?


 
 Those are the best kind: "Surprise electronics!"


----------



## travelfotografe

alpha421 said:


> I received the same response from Lisa and that it would ship next week (this week) regarding my refurb G3.  I'm curious how accurate they are with the true shipping day/week.  Do you get a tracking number or does it just poof, and unexpectedly arrive in your mailbox?


 
  
 When I got my new G3 more than 2 years ago. It came by regular post, so there was not tracking number. However, your order on HeadStage website will be updated to reflect the order as shipped (rather than "processing")
  
 As for accuracy of shipping date... my take is these are best guesstimates, so don't count on it. Good if it ships roughly on time, but be prepared to wait a (long) while.


----------



## alpha421

Thanks for the replies.  I've set my expectations, and I will pretend delivery will never happen in my life time.


----------



## rudi0504

audionewbi said:


> Seems like there are two variation, the 4T(tubey sound based on [COLOR=000000][COLOR=000000]AD8620[/COLOR])[/COLOR] and 4N(netural based on
> [COLOR=000000]AD8397[/COLOR] ).




I have 3 G and 4 G 
Look like 4 N like 3 G with better bass impact 
4 T is new sound quality in tube like sound 

For my taste I prefer 4 N than 4 T 

Can anyone help the SQ different between 4 N and 4 T ?

Thank you


----------



## Hellenback

musicinmymind said:


> Even for refurbished amps??


 
  
 As refurbished amps are likely sold quickly due to their price and are dependent on people's trade-ins, I would think it would perhaps be wise to expect to wait even longer.
  
  
 Quote:


musicinmymind said:


> I ordered for 3G one month back and did paypal dispute few days back, as I did not get product or replay to my emails.


 
  
 Did you ask for a refund before opening the dispute (as I've never heard of anyone not receiving a refund if it was requested)? If you didn't ask for a refund and/or got things sorted out, maybe you should remove or edit your "...did PayPal dispute..." post.
  
 As PayPal requests that buyers ask the seller for a refund before opening a dispute, the post makes it look like he ignored a refund request.
  
 Just my 2 cents


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Headstage and Headphonia sites are down. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Good thing Lisa emailed me my unit (4T) will be delivered this Saturday or Monday (crossfingers).


----------



## alpha421

Anybody know why it's down?  Here's the funny thing.  I canceled my order a few days after shipment notification and received my refund within 12 hours.  I sent emails regarding a swap for the refurb 4T and nothing.


----------



## alpha421

Hmm.  Still down.  Google translates German to "This presense is not available"  I hope nothing fishy is going on with Rob, or the situation doesn't result in a "oh boy, here we go again" type thing.


----------



## Bobo Fret

Got my email from Lisa and my unit should have shipped two weeks ago.
  
 I tried to reply to the email and it got kicked back.  Website defunct.
  
 This is not going to end well.


----------



## Whippler

So they "forgot" to pay for the domain name?..


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

It might be the case...(crossfingers)
  
 Or else why are they accepting transactions or promising of delivery of units before the site outage.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Headstage.com and Headphonia.com IS BACK! (phew!)


----------



## Bobo Fret

Well it was Friday the 13th yesterday.  The Force was not strong with them.  Score one for the Dark Side.


----------



## alpha421

Can anyone explain why the price jumps around so much.  The 3G refurb was $149, $159, and now $199. The regular price was $299 for both the 4T/4N and now the 4N is $329.


----------



## mpawluk91

alpha421 said:


> Can anyone explain why the price jumps around so much.  The 3G refurb was $149, $159, and now $199. The regular price was $299 for both the 4T/4N and now the 4N is $329.


yeah What man i totally agree, that stuff changes before your done entering your credit card number lol


----------



## monkeyboylee

Way dap's are you lot using with your arrows, currently using a rockboxed ipod 5.5g but wondering if an x3 or dx50 might be a worthwhile upgrade in sq, cheers.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Just arrived as Lisa has promised. Arrow 4T


----------



## alpha421

That's reassuring.  Is that the new or refurb 4T?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Brand new Bro! 

Sent from my Xperia Z using Tapatalk 4


----------



## Bobo Fret

Anybody been told their Arrow is about to ship and then weeks go by?
  
 Normal that they don't reply to emails?
  
 I have no problem waiting, but if it supposedly shipped then I am a little concerned about the amount of time that has passed.


----------



## Vidmaven

Mine was supposedly shipped on 9/7 and nothing yet. I sent an email today asking for a tracking number but I'm not very hopeful I will get a response.


----------



## Vidmaven

monkeyboylee said:


> Way dap's are you lot using with your arrows, currently using a rockboxed ipod 5.5g but wondering if an x3 or dx50 might be a worthwhile upgrade in sq, cheers.


 
  
 I'm planning on trying my 4G with my X3 and DX50 this weekend. I'll post results here when I do. I will say the X3 and E12 are a match made in heaven for me. Still have to try the E12 and Leckerton with the DX50 along with the Headstage. The Headstage fits the DX50 perfectly almost disappears beneath it (see post 2021): http://www.head-fi.org/t/679473/ibasso-dx50-appreciation-thread-new-2-firmware-update-v1-1-6/2021


----------



## FARfromHOME

Same here.

 Ordered refurbished G3 on 29 July.
 Order status: "shipped on 9/7" and nothing.
 No response to emails.
 Do they (Headstage) always behave like this?


----------



## Vidmaven

Woohoo! Guess what was waiting for me when I got home?
  

 4T and 3G


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

The dreaded white cardboard box!


----------



## Frankyspanky

I can get the 4T and the 4N. What are the main differences in sound and presentation? I listen bass heavy EDM music mostly.


----------



## Vidmaven

frankyspanky said:


> I can get the 4T and the 4N. What are the main differences in sound and presentation? I listen bass heavy EDM music mostly.


 
  
 The 4T reportedly has more of a tubelike sound where the 4N is bascially a solid state type sound. For EDM I would go with 4N. Or refurb 3G which reportedly has a better bass boost than the others. I have the 4T, 4G and 3G in the house but haven't compared them side by side yet. Maybe this weekend.


----------



## Bobo Fret

bobo fret said:


> Anybody been told their Arrow is about to ship and then weeks go by?
> 
> Normal that they don't reply to emails?
> 
> I have no problem waiting, but if it supposedly shipped then I am a little concerned about the amount of time that has passed.


 
  
*Just came today.  Hang in there.*


----------



## Stoney

vidmaven said:


> The 4T reportedly has more of a tubelike sound where the 4N is bascially a solid state type sound. For EDM I would go with 4N. Or refurb 3G which reportedly has a better bass boost than the others. I have the 4T, 4G and 3G in the house but haven't compared them side by side yet. Maybe this weekend.


 
  
 Yes please!  
 You are in a rare position to compare them.
  
 I have a 4G and wonder about the 4T in comparison.  The different gain settings and headphone impedances can make differences.


----------



## fredrikhasth

is there something to take in consideration when pairing the arrow with a samsung galaxy note 2 ?
  
 just 5 hours after sending my first email to headphonia i got a answer from robert.
  
 he said that waiting list is not long it would depend on where i lived. 
  
 in Germany they have stock. and in California they get new stock the upcoming week.
  
 (the order orders took long becouse of production problems he said).


----------



## Hellenback

I wonder if anyone who has been extremely impatient and/or critical throughout the waiting process has bothered to send in an email to indicate their Arrow has arrived? Once an item is shipped there is very little a seller can do about the delivery speed.
  
 I've waited over a month many times for items shipped from China/Hong Kong. Now that people are receiving their amps maybe we'll see some decent reviews!


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Did email Lisa once I received mine, and thanked me.
  
 Got a smile while tinkering the settings (I actually can do this!) the sound I want from my M2tech Hiface DAC paired with an Audeo PFE 232. My current preferences are:
  
 Cross: 0 Bass: I Treble: 0 Gain: 0


----------



## starfly

So I'm considering getting the 4N or 4T. Currently just to drive my Shure SE530 (will be my first amp), but plan to purchase a pair of fullsize headphones within a few months. It will mainly be paired with my Rockboxed iPod Classic. At some point I'll also get a separate DAC for my laptop and then feed the line-out of that DAC into this amp.
  
 The 4T is described as having a 'tubish' sound and the 4N should just be neutral. What does tubish entail exactly? Does that mean warmer? Will it really warp the way things sound? I suppose it would be better overall to get a neutral amp and then adjust EQ settings if I want to change the sound a bit, right?
  
 Any suggestions, tips, ideas?


----------



## FARfromHOME

I got mine today!
 2 months after ordering..
 Rob should put some sort of item counter on his website.


----------



## rettalking

think so,Cables and other gear are obviously up for a debate and clearly off-topic.thanks


----------



## FARfromHOME

3G - disappointed. Bassheads will love, but me...

 I sometimes use portable recorders. And have tried using them to check imod quality (stupid but works).
 All of them sound clearer, even the ones in sub £100 range.
 Thought that something built for purpose, would sound better.
  
 @rettalking, Silver/gold cables! Only silver cables tend to mess with highs and loose bass.


----------



## FARfromHOME

@starfly, 
 you have the right idea - neutral.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Success!!
  
 Now that I have my Headstage Arrow 4T my setup is complete! 
  
 A portable 32/384 - DXD player. Well 24/384 actually, UARP recognizes my DAC upto 24/384 only.
  
 Had me smiling the whole time!
  
 Smartphone: Sony Xperia Z
 DAC: M2tech Hiface 32/384 DAC
 Amp: Headstage Arrow 4T
 IEM: Phonak Audeo PFE232


----------



## starfly

@m-i-c-k-e-y, nice setup! How does it sound though?


----------



## DemonFox

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Success!!
> 
> Now that I have my Headstage Arrow 4T my setup is complete!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 That is a kick ***** setup you got there! How do you like the 4T and have you ever heard or owned any of the other Arrows? 
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## travelfotografe

Now I am worried...
  
 Ordered refurb'ed 3G on July 29
 Order status says shipped on Sept 7
 As of Oct 2, nothing received...
  
 Sent multiple emails to Headstage... no reply...
  
 Anyone else still waiting for delivery for an order shipped Sept 7 or earlier?
  
 Leon


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

@starfly and demonfox
  
 This is my first setup/entry to the portable/iem arena. So i am not very adepth on comparing others (because i have none - for now)
  
 Was aiming for a high performance, very portable setup.
  
 Hoping (basing on reviews, personal research) that:
 M2tech's definition, texture, musicality, liquidity (analog like) and open mids will augment
 PFE232's fun sounding, detail, clear but slightly V sound.
 Plus 4Ts presence, spacious and analog like sound...
  
 Everyting just sings! Very analog (M2tech+4T)
  
 Of course this comment comes from a beginner.
  
 Very happy with my setup:
  
 1. I can use the Phone. Close/Open the flip case. Unplug/replug OTG cable to charge.
 2. If will not use Phone as a DAP just swap it with my other case.


----------



## FARfromHOME

@travelfotografe
 My Arrow order status said shipped on Sept 7.
 Received last week!
 Just ask, Lisa might answer you.


----------



## travelfotografe

farfromhome said:


> @travelfotografe
> My Arrow order status said shipped on Sept 7.
> Received last week!
> Just ask, Lisa might answer you.


 
  
 I have been seeing how many here have ordered this batch of refurb'ed Arrows and have received them. Thus my worry as the days of an empty mailbox (empty as in without the Arrow package) dragged on.
  
 I have emailed (direct and via the contact us web form) 6 times already since last week, with no reply for the past 10 days now. I will have to keep reminding Headstage everyday that I have not received my order (until I eventually, hopefully, do receive it).
  
 I wonder how business for Headstage could have been (so much better) if they could just do better on this time-estimate and customer service front.
  
 Leon


----------



## travelfotografe

Lisa did reply last Friday! Apparently they were on holiday (a National holiday) for the first three days of last week. The surprise was she said the package was shipped out last Monday, which is completely different from what was entered in my order status!
  
 Anyway, the good news is my refurb'ed G3 arrived today, via DHL from Hong Kong (I am located in Singapore).


----------



## esmBOS

travelfotografe said:


> Lisa did reply last Friday! Apparently they were on holiday (a National holiday) for the first three days of last week. The surprise was she said the package was shipped out last Monday, which is completely different from what was entered in my order status!
> 
> Anyway, the good news is my refurb'ed G3 arrived today, via DHL from Hong Kong (I am located in Singapore).


 
 Nice! Did the package include the 2 ultra low profile interconnects?


----------



## travelfotografe

esmbos said:


> Nice! Did the package include the 2 ultra low profile interconnects?


 
  
 Yes my refurb'ed G3 came with the 2 ultra low profile interconnects, which was a pleasant surprise! One shorter and the other slightly longer. Their fit and finish when plugged into the G3 is really perfection, almost like they are part of the casing! The only disappointment is that their cable is rather thin.
  
 I am just happy to have my portable rig running again. I lost my portable rig (Fuze V1 rockbox'ed with Fiio LOD into Arrow 3G, fortunately not with my TF10) in a cab, thus had to buy a replacement. Fortunately refub'ed 3Gs are being offered and I ordered one when they were still priced at $149.
  
 I have to say that my refurb'ed G3 looks brand new, really nothing to fault in terms of cosmetics.
  
 My current rig: Fuze V1 rockbox'ed -> affinitycables LOD -> Arrow 3G -> Westone 4R


----------



## esmBOS

travelfotografe said:


> Yes my refurb'ed G3 came with the 2 ultra low profile interconnects, which was a pleasant surprise! One shorter and the other slightly longer. Their fit and finish when plugged into the G3 is really perfection, almost like they are part of the casing! The only disappointment is that their cable is rather thin.
> 
> I am just happy to have my portable rig running again. I lost my portable rig (Fuze V1 rockbox'ed with Fiio LOD into Arrow 3G, fortunately not with my TF10) in a cab, thus had to buy a replacement. Fortunately refub'ed 3Gs are being offered and I ordered one when they were still priced at $149.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you! Just ordered a refurbished 3G! Let's seen how long I'll have to wait


----------



## rbf1138

I just Rockbox'd my Clip + which I'm using with Phonak PFE232 IEMs and the Arrow 4G. It seems that the amp hurts the sound and the Clip+ sounds better without it. Is there some settings I should configure on the Clip to help with this? Can anyone suggest some things I should configure to help get the best sound possible with this setup? Thanks!


----------



## starfly

rbf1138 said:


> I just Rockbox'd my Clip + which I'm using with Phonak PFE232 IEMs and the Arrow 4G. It seems that the amp hurts the sound and the Clip+ sounds better without it. Is there some settings I should configure on the Clip to help with this? Can anyone suggest some things I should configure to help get the best sound possible with this setup? Thanks!


 
  
 I don't have a Clip+, but either way make sure to turn the EQ on the Clip+ off. I don't know if it has a line-out, but if it does definitely use that to connect to the amp. If not, put the volume of the Clip+ fairly low as you want most of the amping to be done by the amp, not by the Clip+.


----------



## travelfotografe

@rbf1138,
  
 1. when using the 4G, set your clip to 0db, which should be easy to do in rockbox.
  
 2. when testing, try to set the effective volume that hear in your PFE to be the same in either configuration. It is easy to find that louder = better.
  
 3. what is it about the sound of the Clip+ alone that you find better than the Clip+ with 4G?
  
 Actually, this goes to show how good the Clip+ already is, which is why I have twe rockbox'ed clip+ and I am quite happy to use them on their own with my TF10 and W4R. That the Clip+ is a VFM DAP is quite accepted in the community. What I find is that with an external amp like the Arrow, base notes especially are tighter and more textured. Also, an external amp really shows the difference between amp and no amp when using full-sized headphones.


----------



## travelfotografe

starfly said:


> I don't know if it has a line-out, but if it does definitely use that to connect to the amp. If not, put the volume of the Clip+ fairly low as you want most of the amping to be done by the amp, not by the Clip+.


 
  
 The Clip+ has no line out, only HP out. But my understanding from various amp manufacturers and users is when connecting the HP out to an external amp, set the device volume to max or a few steps less than max for best SQ.


----------



## rbf1138

travelfotografe said:


> @rbf1138,
> 
> 1. when using the 4G, set your clip to 0db, which should be easy to do in rockbox.
> 
> ...


 
  
 When you say set it to 0db, you mean simply "Volume" set to 0db? I did this and yes, it sounds way better! There are, of course a whole lot more options for setting up volume settings, regarding peaks, frequencies and things like that (which I know very little about and frankly don't understand, lol). 
  
 I felt like the Arrow is maybe taking a bit of the air away from the sound, in that its more full sounding but not necessarily in a good way? As if the air had been sucked out of the blank space that was there with only the Clip. I do have the gain set to the | notch. Will this mean making other changes on the Clip settings?


----------



## travelfotografe

rbf1138 said:


> When you say set it to 0db, you mean simply "Volume" set to 0db? I did this and yes, it sounds way better! There are, of course a whole lot more options for setting up volume settings, regarding peaks, frequencies and things like that (which I know very little about and frankly don't understand, lol).
> 
> I felt like the Arrow is maybe taking a bit of the air away from the sound, in that its more full sounding but not necessarily in a good way? As if the air had been sucked out of the blank space that was there with only the Clip. I do have the gain set to the | notch. Will this mean making other changes on the Clip settings?


 
  
 Yes, set the volume to 0db. Now be careful if you ever plug ur headphone back into the Clip+ with volume set to 0db, because that is freaking loud (VERY loud) and will hurt your ears and hurt your IEM and most likely both.
  
 I personally do not like to apply equalization (i.e. compensation at different frequency bands). you should only experiment with that after you have exhausted all other adjustments
  
 You should not be setting the gain to the | notch. gain is O, I or II right? set it to O, and increase the volume on the Arrow. with IEM, you should use the lowest gain for lowest noise. Try it!
  
 Start with all settings on the arrow to O first.


----------



## rbf1138

"If not, put the volume of the Clip+ fairly low as you want most of the amping to be done by the amp, not by the Clip+."
  
 That's incorrect, right? I always thought (like travel says) that the volume should be very high on the source player.


----------



## rbf1138

travelfotografe said:


> Yes, set the volume to 0db. Now be careful if you ever plug ur headphone back into the Clip+ with volume set to 0db, because that is freaking loud (VERY loud) and will hurt your ears and hurt your IEM and most likely both.
> 
> I personally do not like to apply equalization (i.e. compensation at different frequency bands). you should only experiment with that after you have exhausted all other adjustments
> 
> ...


 
  
 The reason I'd set the gain to the middle setting ( | ) was that someone in the PFE232 thread said they felt the added gain gave their 232s a bit more in the midrange, where it is weakest.


----------



## travelfotografe

rbf1138 said:


> The reason I'd set the gain to the middle setting ( | ) was that someone in the PFE232 thread said they felt the added gain gave their 232s a bit more in the midrange, where it is weakest.


 
  
 You can try Gain O or I. Higher gain will incur more noise. When I have my rockboxed Fuze V1 connected, switched on but not playing. If I set to Gain I, I can hear hiss on my W4R. If I set to Gain O, nada, no hiss. This is enough to convince me to stick to Gain O for my W4R. In fact, even when I use my 3G to drive my Senn HD800, I kept to Gain O, although I have not done extensive comparison testing on Gain I and Gain II with the HD800.
  
 Also, at higher gain, i.e. Gain I, you have to dial in less on the volume control on the arrow, which brings you closer to the range on the volume control that may give you channel imbalance. Such analogue volume controls tend to work better by not being too close to min volume setting, so using Gain O will allow you to set a higher volume on the volume control on the Arrow


----------



## rbf1138

travelfotografe said:


> You can try Gain O or I. Higher gain will incur more noise. When I have my rockboxed Fuze V1 connected, switched on but not playing. If I set to Gain I, I can hear hiss on my W4R. If I set to Gain O, nada, no hiss. This is enough to convince me to stick to Gain O for my W4R. In fact, even when I use my 3G to drive my Senn HD800, I kept to Gain O, although I have not done extensive comparison testing on Gain I and Gain II with the HD800.
> 
> Also, at higher gain, i.e. Gain I, you have to dial in less on the volume control on the arrow, which brings you closer to the range on the volume control that may give you channel imbalance. Such analogue volume controls tend to work better by not being too close to min volume setting, so using Gain O will allow you to set a higher volume on the volume control on the Arrow


 
  
 When I switch the gain to | from O, with the Clip+ volume at 0db, the hiss is barely audible and I'm sensitive to that. That's part of the reason I was leaving the gain pushed to |


----------



## travelfotografe

rbf1138 said:


> When I switch the gain to | from O, with the Clip+ volume at 0db, the hiss is barely audible and I'm sensitive to that. That's part of the reason I was leaving the gain pushed to |


 
  
 My understanding is to use the lowest gain setting possible that can give you the volume you need with a pair of head/earphones. The fact that you can hear the hiss at gain | suggest you get a lower noise floor and better S/N ratio with gain O. Indeed higher gain setting might had an effect on other aspects of the sound and you might end up preferring gain | and a lower volume setting on the arrow. I think you can try both (i.e. gain O and higher volume on the dial, versus gain | and lower volume on the dial) and decide which you prefer.
  
 IMHO, that hiss on gain | and silence on gain O is telling me that for the earphones used, gain O is the more appropriate gain setting. You should try your other headphones like the Senn 580 on the arrow. I suspect you will not hear hiss on gain | or even gain ||, and you might prefer the sound on a higher gain setting even if gain O can drive the 580 to a high enough volume.
  
 But are you getting better or equal sound now on Clip+ with Arrow or is the Clip+ alone still better?


----------



## FARfromHOME

@rbf1138
 Yes - Arrow loses a lot of air  
 I am very disappointed and will sell mine.


----------



## proedros

maybe the clip+ don't need the arrow

 i have a clip+ and i never used the arrow with it
  
 only with my J3


----------



## s1rrah

travelfotografe said:


> Yes my refurb'ed G3 came with the 2 ultra low profile interconnects, which was a pleasant surprise! One shorter and the other slightly longer. Their fit and finish when plugged into the G3 is really perfection, almost like they are part of the casing! The only disappointment is that their cable is rather thin.
> 
> I am just happy to have my portable rig running again. I lost my portable rig (Fuze V1 rockbox'ed with Fiio LOD into Arrow 3G, fortunately not with my TF10) in a cab, thus had to buy a replacement. Fortunately refub'ed 3Gs are being offered and I ordered one when they were still priced at $149.
> 
> ...


 
  
 150 dollars for that amp is the portable amp deal of the entire century. 
  
 The 3G remains my favorite Arrow and for that money ... it's almost criminal.


----------



## Daveed84

Is it worth upgrading from the original G4 to the 4N or 4T? I've been given the opportunity to do so for less than $100, and I have a pair of Grado SR-325is and TF10s that I'd use with it.


----------



## KimChee

Hmm for $100 bucks I'd be really tempted to go for it. I say do it, but consider the wait time


----------



## Daveed84

Hah, how could I forget about those wait times...
  
 So, what's the consensus? 4N or 4T?


----------



## proedros

Hey guys , help me out here (it may sound stupid so bear with me)

 I bought the USB DAC and my question is this ?

 i plug it in my laptop as a usb and then i connect the other end to my arrow ?

 Is this the correct order ?

 yeah i know , i am a newbie with dac cables


----------



## esmBOS

proedros said:


> Hey guys , help me out here (it may sound stupid so bear with me)
> 
> I bought the USB DAC and my question is this ?
> 
> ...


 
 Correct! Source->DAC->Amp->Headphones


----------



## midnightwalker

daveed84 said:


> Is it worth upgrading from the original G4 to the 4N or 4T? I've been given the opportunity to do so for less than $100, and I have a pair of Grado SR-325is and TF10s that I'd use with it.


 
  
 I would say the 4T is better to my ear and it worth to upgrade


----------



## esmBOS

How can some of you guys have waited several months for your Arrow? I'm on day 6 from taking the plunge and I'm going INSANE!!


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Cmon! Its like waiting and giving birth.


----------



## proedros

i waited 3 months for my upgrade to 4G - you think 6 days is bad , wait till you hit 60


----------



## esmBOS

proedros said:


> i waited 3 months for my upgrade to 4G - you think 6 days is bad , wait till you hit 60


 
 Got a tracking number from Headstage today. The Arrow is in transit! Looks like I'll have it next week! #Feelingamazing #Can'twait #boomboomboom


----------



## esmBOS

Got my refurbished arrow 3G earlier today. 9 Days after placing the order! Package included the 2 ultra low-profile IC's that they promised. Listening to some EDM through my RWAK100 now and early impressions are: This is exactly what I hoped the Arrow would sound like! The bass boost is absolutely amazing for EDM and dubstep! I feel the 3G is no where near neutral, even with all the switches turned off, but that isn't why I bought it! I'm going to use this with my phone as a gym rig, and I need the extra fun factor at the gym! The size is also great, even paired with my phone it does not become bulky! And all for 150€! Are you kidding me?!? Thank you headstage, and a big thank you to everyone who recommended the refurbished 3G. Most of your impressions were spot on for me!


----------



## s1rrah

esmbos said:


> Got my refurbished arrow 3G earlier today. 9 Days after placing the order! Package included the 2 ultra low-profile IC's that they promised. Listening to some EDM through my RWAK100 now and early impressions are: This is exactly what I hoped the Arrow would sound like! The bass boost is absolutely amazing for EDM and dubstep! I feel the 3G is no where near neutral, even with all the switches turned off, but that isn't why I bought it! I'm going to use this with my phone as a gym rig, and I need the extra fun factor at the gym! The size is also great, even paired with my phone it does not become bulky! And all for 150€! Are you kidding me?!? Thank you headstage, and a big thank you to everyone who recommended the refurbished 3G. Most of your impressions were spot on for me!


 
  
 3G remains my fav because of it's unique bass boost sound. The perfect match for Shure SE535's ... and yeah, 150 bucks is ridiculous.


----------



## midnightwalker

esmbos said:


> How can some of you guys have waited several months for your Arrow? I'm on day 6 from taking the plunge and I'm going INSANE!!


 
  
 haha the longest time I have to wait is 3 months. You are luckier than most of us


----------



## headwhacker

esmbos said:


> Got my refurbished arrow 3G earlier today. 9 Days after placing the order! Package included the 2 ultra low-profile IC's that they promised. Listening to some EDM through my RWAK100 now and early impressions are: This is exactly what I hoped the Arrow would sound like! The bass boost is absolutely amazing for EDM and dubstep! I feel the 3G is no where near neutral, even with all the switches turned off, but that isn't why I bought it! I'm going to use this with my phone as a gym rig, and I need the extra fun factor at the gym! The size is also great, even paired with my phone it does not become bulky! And all for 150€! Are you kidding me?!? Thank you headstage, and a big thank you to everyone who recommended the refurbished 3G. Most of your impressions were spot on for me!


 
  
 I just pulled the trigger on refurbished Arrow 3G. I hope I get it in 9 days like you did. I hope this is the last piece I need to setup my ultimate mobile rig. I'm planning to pair it with Ibasso DX50. My wallet has already taken a big hit since joining head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I will have to put my credit card on a safe now and ask some to change the combination keys and never tell me.


----------



## esmBOS

headwhacker said:


> I just pulled the trigger on refurbished Arrow 3G. I hope I get it in 9 days like you did. I hope this is the last piece I need to setup my ultimate mobile rig. I'm planning to pair it with Ibasso DX50. My wallet has already taken a big hit since joining head-fi
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, if you're located in Singapore I bet you'll get yours even faster! The do ship out of Hong-Kong


----------



## FARfromHOME

headwhacker said:


> I just pulled the trigger on refurbished Arrow 3G. I hope I get it in 9 days like you did. I hope this is the last piece I need to setup my ultimate mobile rig. I'm planning to pair it with Ibasso DX50. My wallet has already taken a big hit since joining head-fi
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 DX50 sounds better on its own.
 Arrow 3G looses a lot of "air" imo.
 I own both.


----------



## headwhacker

farfromhome said:


> DX50 sounds better on its own.
> Arrow 3G looses a lot of "air" imo.
> I own both.


 
  
 Thanks for the heads up. Which did you use?


----------



## FARfromHOME

I use DX50 without amp.

  
 For more go to :
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/679473/ibasso-dx50-appreciation-thread-new-3-firmware-update-v1-2-oh-em-geee/4725
  
 I love DX50, even with its bugs.


----------



## headwhacker

farfromhome said:


> I use DX50 without amp.
> 
> 
> For more go to :
> ...


 

 Didn't see the typo I meant to ask which IEM did you use?


----------



## FARfromHOME

Most of the time I use GR07. 
 But you don't need good/expensive iem's to hear the difference.


----------



## morinru

Just got mine in today - pre-owned 3rd gen. It is tiny. Pictures definitely do not convey the actual diminutiveness.
  

  
 Paired with 120G IPC/ALAC to UM3x with the Fiio recable.
  
 Nice rich bass (on "1" for now...). Easy mids and highs not overbearing...might try the TF10s to compare, or even the Klipsch 4s to see how the highs pan out.
  
 One thing is for sure - much listening time needed, but my ears like.


----------



## headwhacker

morinru said:


> Just got mine in today - pre-owned 3rd gen. It is tiny. Pictures definitely do not convey the actual diminutiveness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


How long did it take for yours to get delivered?


----------



## morinru

just under a week.

maybe some personal points i really like:

sound. bass is the deepest and most enjoyable to my head of all others, and i have a lot of amps, including the e12, which i also love.

the auto-power is absolutely brilliant. with it mounted to the iriver ihp140 ala vel-cro and the remote clipped to my shirt neck this set-up is totally hands free. i keep the pair in a small neoprene (like a wetsuit mat'l) hdd pocket i picked up at bestbuy for 6 bux, and clipped to the belt loops on my jeans with a pair of tiny carabiners...

the tiny lods are neat. low profile has its advantages.


----------



## midnightwalker

Pairing the 4T with my Ak120. It sounds great. Have to boost more bass on the AK120 
  
 Almost the same surface area.


----------



## proedros

my 4G makes my RE-262 sing - a shame that this lovely iem got discontinued.

 the synergy is so good my 272 have been gathering dust
  
 great amp by Robert.


----------



## FatalDestiny

Hi, Is it worth getting the Arrow 4T over the Arrow 3G? I need to decide this today. Thanks.


----------



## esmBOS

fataldestiny said:


> Hi, Is it worth getting the Arrow 4T over the Arrow 3G? I need to decide this today. Thanks.



Depends... What are your preferences soundwise?


----------



## midnightwalker

fataldestiny said:


> Hi, Is it worth getting the Arrow 4T over the Arrow 3G? I need to decide this today. Thanks.




3G has good bass but makes soundstage smaller. It has dark soundsign.

4T still has good bass but more balance. The treble is better and more sparkle than 3G.

4T is newer than 3G and Rob improves the 4th Gen from the 3rd Gen.

IMO i will chose the 4th Gen instead.


----------



## FatalDestiny

midnightwalker said:


> 3G has good bass but makes soundstage smaller. It has dark soundsign.
> 
> 4T still has good bass but more balance. The treble is better and more sparkle than 3G.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks. I do prefer better treble. Would you say it is more detailed?


----------



## midnightwalker

If you like treble, take the 4N instead. 3G does not fit your needs.


----------



## FatalDestiny

midnightwalker said:


> If you like treble, take the 4N instead. 3G does not fit your needs.


 
  
 I'm wondering how does it compare to C5.


----------



## midnightwalker

fataldestiny said:


> I'm wondering how does it compare to C5.


 
  
 No, I haven't tried the C5 yet, unfortunately


----------



## aluweer

midnightwalker said:


> 3G has good bass but makes soundstage smaller. It has dark soundsign.
> 
> 4T still has good bass but more balance. The treble is better and more sparkle than 3G.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What about transparent and instruments separations between 3G and 4T? Im wondering to upgrade or not my 3G, which better for classical music you think? Thanks!


----------



## midnightwalker

aluweer said:


> What about transparent and instruments separations between 3G and 4T? Im wondering to upgrade or not my 3G, which better for classical music you think? Thanks!


 
  
 If you like the 3G, it is likely you will also like the 4T. The 4T is brighter compare to 3G and has better separation. Sound stage also wider. I am not listen to classical music so I think other members can help you better than me. However, some of my friends who listen classical think that the 3G is too dark for their music.


----------



## aluweer

midnightwalker said:


> If you like the 3G, it is likely you will also like the 4T. The 4T is brighter compare to 3G and has better separation. Sound stage also wider. I am not listen to classical music so I think other members can help you better than me. However, some of my friends who listen classical think that the 3G is too dark for their music.


 

 Thank you! I like 3G's power bass on orchestral tutti and organ, but also really need better separation for most difficult classical and choral music. Hope 4T upgrade will help me)


----------



## rbf1138

I have a 4G (upgraded this year so the battery is like new) in perfect condition for sale in the forums if anyone wants one shipped in the US immediately! Check out my signature for the link.


----------



## Schokolade bar

fataldestiny said:


> I'm wondering how does it compare to C5.




I got a c5 as a gift a week or so ago and I honestly think the arrow 4t is superior to my ears in every way, not to mention the solid build quality and tiny footprint of the arrow


----------



## mpawluk91

I feel like everybody forgot about the 4g lol


----------



## krismusic

That's because they are too busy listening to it to post!


----------



## proedros

such a great amp , and slick like a SI swimsuit model


----------



## midnightwalker

mpawluk91 said:


> I feel like everybody forgot about the 4g lol


 
  
 No, it just because I prefer the 4T.


----------



## burrrcub

I was looking at the 4T then their website removed it and now have the 5G as coming soon and nothing available to order.


----------



## thegunner100

Headstage arrow g5 eh? Interesting... I hope robert lowers down the output impedance to at least 2 or lower. I really loved the form factor of the arrow 4g but the output impedance messed with the UERM's treble. OPA4627-1B gogo?!


----------



## midnightwalker

G5 coming soon!


----------



## Whippler

Damn he's bringing out new version of this, more than there are new smartphones coming out.


----------



## mpawluk91

I'm interested in the arrow 5g, I wonder what the big change is this time around


----------



## gimbertt

How do the 3g, 4n, 4t compare sound wise to the 4g?


----------



## midnightwalker

The G5 will come with DAC


----------



## mpawluk91

midnightwalker said:


> The G5 will come with DAC


Are you sure? That would price it at 400$ for sure 

That's steep


----------



## gazar

I had an e-mail conversation with Robert about potential future models with a DAC included about 18mths ago. I wonder how compact Robert has managed to make this device ??


----------



## gazar

is the 5G the one in the headstage website picture along side the AKG headphones ?


----------



## mpawluk91

I would love to compare that to the apex glacier


----------



## BucketInABucket

mpawluk91 said:


> I would love to compare that to the apex glacier


 
 Me too, I'm looking for an amp with a darker warmer sound signature and more bass in a similarly-sized enclosure to compliment the Apex Glacier and I'm hoping this will fit the ticket.


----------



## esmBOS

gazar said:


> is the 5G the one in the headstage website picture along side the AKG headphones ?


 
 Has to be! None of the previous headstage amps have had USB DAC capability!


----------



## krismusic

Very disappointing form factor.


----------



## midnightwalker

krismusic said:


> Very disappointing form factor.


 
 G5?


----------



## s1rrah

esmbos said:


> Has to be! None of the previous headstage amps have had USB DAC capability!


 
  
 That photo of the amp with the AKG's has been there for _years and years and years_. It was the same graphic used back in 2008. I find it hard to believe that it would be the G5.
  
 I think it's the old "Lyrix" amp.
  
 Here's the headphonia website in September of 2008 ... (link courtesy of the "Wayback Machine" at the archive.org website; a kick ass resource, BTW):
  
Headphonia.com in Year 2008


----------



## midnightwalker

bucketinabucket said:


> Me too, I'm looking for an amp with a darker warmer sound signature and more bass in a similarly-sized enclosure to compliment the Apex Glacier and I'm hoping this will fit the ticket.


 
  
 If you are only looking for the amp feature as above to compliment with the Glacier, no need to wait for the G5, I will send you my 4T


----------



## BucketInABucket

midnightwalker said:


> If you are only looking for the amp feature as above to compliment with the Glacier, no need to wait for the G5, I will send you my 4T


 
 You have a 4T? Ooo yes I would like to eventually take it off your hands when I can afford to


----------



## midnightwalker

bucketinabucket said:


> You have a 4T? Ooo yes I would like to eventually take it off your hands when I can afford to


 
  
 Sure, shoot me a pm when you need it.
  
 By the way, does anybody have chance to see the G5 prototype?


----------



## lokar

Hi guys, I'm just a noob with this kind of things.. I'm trying to find the difference between *12HE* and *4N*. And luckily, I can't find any. is there a difference or is this just the same? 
  
 *an advanced apologies for my noobness


----------



## Sinik

s1rrah said:


> That photo of the amp with the AKG's has been there for _years and years and years_. It was the same graphic used back in 2008. I find it hard to believe that it would be the G5.
> 
> I think it's the old "Lyrix" amp.
> 
> ...


 

 i hope it is that old lyrix amp, because it really doesn't look nice. hope it won't be more than 400$ :x


----------



## feverfive

I'm having a hard time keeping up with the different versions. I upgraded last Fall from the 2G to the 4G (I THINK). But since then two new 4th generation versions have been sent to customers. Anywho, good luck to all with the 5th generation Arrow


----------



## mpawluk91

I don't care for an external dac that much,

I feel like my fiio x3 and my imod have great sound already and i doubt it would be improved all that much anyway


----------



## desmoface

Great, my old arrow 12he's input jack is starting to give up the ghost. I really have become attached to this thing, is there anything else I should be looking at, or should I just spring for a new arrow? Thanks in advance for any advice.

Steve


----------



## rbf1138

desmoface said:


> Great, my old arrow 12he's input jack is starting to give up the ghost. I really have become attached to this thing, is there anything else I should be looking at, or should I just spring for a new arrow? Thanks in advance for any advice.
> 
> Steve


 
  
 I've got my barely used Arrow 4G for sale here if you're looking for an exact replacement!


----------



## desmoface

Hey RBF, I'm thinking about trying something different, maybe the ALO National for about the same price...Not sure yet...thanks for the offer, though.

Steve


----------



## r2muchstuff

In reading this Thread I found the following:
  
 In post #2098 dated 8/6/11
 Seeing that the impedance switch has been eliminated do you know what the stated output impedance will be for the 4G?
  
 Then in post #2099
  I've been told and measured to confirm.  <1ohm.
  
 Later in Post #2602 dated5/18/13
 Well - it appears we were both wrong.  I contacted Rob - and just got reply back.  He says that for the current 4G/4T, the impedance is 3-5 ohms.
 His exact reply ......
"*Hi Paul,*
*its about 3-5 ohm output impedance now.
 Rob* "
  
 So when did the G4 change from 1 ohm to 3-5 ohm?
 Date or Serial # or any other way to know?
  
 Thanks
 R


----------



## electrolover

What is the actual output power in watts of the Arrow?


----------



## mpawluk91

electrolover said:


> What is the actual output power in watts of the Arrow?



Watts


----------



## esmBOS

mpawluk91 said:


> Watts


 
 9kW? Then it should be called "The Black Arrow"


----------



## electrolover

Heh, I know I can't realistically expect it to push many watts, to be more specific I want to know if it puts out at least 1W at 32Ohms.


----------



## mpawluk91

Headstage arrow 4ss (Super Saiyan edition)

Not only do you have a golden ear but now you have golden hair as well!


----------



## alv4426

mpawluk91 said:


> Headstage arrow 4ss*j* (Super Saiyan edition)
> 
> Not only do you have a golden ear but now you have golden hair as well!


 
 fixed


----------



## mpawluk91

alv4426 said:


> fixed


If you put that j in there then I KNOW you are a dbz head


----------



## Hellenback

The picture on the Headphonia site is definitely *not* the 5G. It is a picture of one of the first amps Robert made; the *Lyrix*. I am absolutely certain as I own one from years ago!


----------



## alv4426

DBZ and filler for life. 
 Quote:


mpawluk91 said:


> If you put that j in there then I KNOW you are a dbz head


----------



## krismusic

hellenback said:


> The picture on the Headphonia site is definitely *not* the 5G. It is a picture of one of the first amps Robert made; the *Lyrix*. I am absolutely certain as I own one from years ago!



Good! Seemed like a shame to lose the brilliant form factor.


----------



## r2muchstuff

I have not received any response from my message through the "contact" on HeadPhonia.  So I will try again here.  Anyone?
  
  
 Quote:


r2muchstuff said:


> In reading this Thread I found the following:
> 
> In post #2098 dated 8/6/11
> Seeing that the impedance switch has been eliminated do you know what the stated output impedance will be for the 4G?
> ...


----------



## sargaso

Don't know about any change in impedance on the 4g's but I traded in my 2.2g for a 4g in October 2012 and the output impedance on it measured 3.1 ohms. So it was in the 3-5 ohm range at least at that time.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Thank you.
  
 That helps a lot.
  
 R


----------



## krismusic

Sorry if this has been asked before. I've got a pair of Sennheiser HD600's on the way.  will my Arrow 4G do them justice?


----------



## midnightwalker

krismusic said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before. I've got a pair of Sennheiser HD600's on the way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Take the 4T instead, it's better than the 4G in every aspect to my taste.


----------



## proedros

midnightwalker said:


> Take the 4T instead, it's better than the 4G in every aspect to my taste.


 

 4G is more neutral sound-wise = more versatile.

 if he has a pair of HD-600 which i think sound like RE-262 warm/sound , the 4g/n version suits him better.


----------



## whoever

hello folks, 
  
  
 i have the possibility to get a 3G.....good deal? 180$ ....
  
 And i still don't get the difference between the 3G 4G and all the other versions. Could anyone point me in the right direction? Maybe there is a page in this thread where it's all written? Didn't have the time to look for all of it! 
  
 thanks a lot 
  
  
 (paired with an a k100 and a custom Iem)


----------



## krismusic

proedros said:


> 4G is more neutral sound-wise = more versatile.
> 
> 
> if he has a pair of HD-600 which i think sound like RE-262 warm/sound , the 4g/n version suits him better.



Yep. I already have the 4G. I've always really liked it with IEM's. What I was trying to find out is how much better I could expect the HD600's to sound with a desktop amp.


----------



## s1rrah

whoever said:


> hello folks,
> 
> 
> i have the possibility to get a 3G.....good deal? 180$ ....
> ...


 
  
 3G is somewhat different than all the 4G's ... and mostly in the bass boost frequency. 3G is a more tight, snappy bass ... whereas the 4G has a deeper, more subtle and extended bass. 
  
 Otherwise, you would have to get nit picky to describe much sonic difference (though the bass boost is quite dramatically different).
  
 Also, the 3G does not have treble boost and instead has an impedance adjustment switch.


----------



## whoever

s1rrah said:


> 3G is somewhat different than all the 4G's ... and mostly in the bass boost frequency. 3G is a more tight, snappy bass ... whereas the 4G has a deeper, more subtle and extended bass.
> 
> Otherwise, you would have to get nit picky to describe much sonic difference (though the bass boost is quite dramatically different).
> 
> Also, the 3G does not have treble boost and instead has an impedance adjustment switch.


 
 Thanks! 
 i'll go for an 4G then!


----------



## whoever

Guys, do i understand it right: you order through headstage, and even if they mention "shipping within the week" it takes several months??


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

That is what happened to mine. 3 Months actually, but worth it.


----------



## krismusic

I got mine in a week or so. Had a few email convos with Robert. Maybe I just hit lucky with timing. I think sometimes he gets overwhelmed with orders.


----------



## whoever

ok good to know, thanks


----------



## mpawluk91

I bought a refurb arrow 4g from headstage for 200$ and it arrived 11 days later

I never even had to email Robert. I also received a vast array of interconnects and bands. All the paper documentation it came with was written in German though lol


----------



## whoever

sooooo, i want one....but as Robert is taking his time in answering emails, maybe you could help me out:
  
 i'm in France, so is it useful to order on the german site, or better on the US site? 
  
 Thanks
  
 cheers


----------



## midnightwalker

mpawluk91 said:


> I bought a refurb arrow 4g from headstage for 200$ and it arrived 11 days later
> 
> I never even had to email Robert. I also received a vast array of interconnects and bands. All the paper documentation it came with was written in German though lol


 
  
 As least you have the document


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Arrow 4N just upped on Headphonia for Eur249/$299
  
 Still no Arrow G5.


----------



## electrolover

whoever said:


> sooooo, i want one....but as Robert is taking his time in answering emails, maybe you could help me out:
> 
> i'm in France, so is it useful to order on the german site, or better on the US site?
> 
> ...


 
  
 It seems to me that it doesn't matter, I live in Italy and it's being shipped from Hong Kong... I guess they just ship it from whichever warehouse has it in stock.
  
 PS: is this a one-man business? (???)


----------



## whoever

electrolover said:


> It seems to me that it doesn't matter, I live in Italy and it's being shipped from Hong Kong... I guess they just ship it from whichever warehouse has it in stock.
> 
> PS: is this a one-man business? (???)


 
 thanks!


----------



## whoever

Just got word from Robert, so went ahead and purchased a refurbished 3g


----------



## BucketInABucket

whoever said:


> Just got word from Robert, so went ahead and purchased a refurbished 3g


 
 Oh lordy, I'm sorely tempted to just go and purchase one right now too.


----------



## whoever

I just hope i won't wait 2 months! :frown:


----------



## esmBOS

whoever said:


> I just hope i won't wait 2 months! :frown:




When I ordered my refurb 3g it arrived in less than a week!


----------



## whoever

esmbos said:


> When I ordered my refurb 3g it arrived in less than a week!


 
 that would be indeed awesome!
 Did you get a tracking number before shipping?


----------



## esmBOS

whoever said:


> that would be indeed awesome!
> Did you get a tracking number before shipping?


 

 Don't remember, but I don't think I did!


----------



## whoever

esmbos said:


> Don't remember, but I don't think I did!


 
 haha, ok the waiting game version "high anxiety"!


----------



## ozzymo

Still waiting to see what the G5 has to offer.


----------



## mpawluk91

Everybody has all these crazy versions of arrows and here I am all lonely with my arrow 4G and I think it's a great amp probably my favorite I have


----------



## krismusic

I'm very happy with my 4G. Sure other iterations probably have different flavours but the 4G remains an outstanding little device. It'll do me!


----------



## whoever

Still waiting for my refurbished 3g....


----------



## molika

schokolade bar said:


> I got a c5 as a gift a week or so ago and I honestly think the arrow 4t is superior to my ears in every way, not to mention the solid build quality and tiny footprint of the arrow




does anyone have a different opinion or can expand on this statement. cheers


----------



## GettingBuckets

So what are the actual differences in sound between the 3g, 4g, 4n, 4t, and etc? I'm thinking about upgrading my portable setup, and I don't know which one is which.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

They have just upped their support forum.
  
http://www.headstage.com/forum/forum.php


----------



## whoever

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> They have just upped their support forum.
> 
> http://www.headstage.com/forum/forum.php


 
 great, thanks!
  
  
 wow.....i just got a direct answer from Robert, so yes, it works! 
  
 clap your hands and say thanks! 
  
 Thanks Robert!


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Yep saw it! So next week then!
  
 Congrats!


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

On Arrow 5G, what Robert has posted:
  
 Robert 






 Administrator Join Date
 Feb 2014

 Posts
 5

  


 


> In the moment I can only show a screenshot as the front plates haven't yet finished:





>





> The front side will have an illuminated power switch and a bass switch. There is no second headphone jack as it was on 2G/3G/4G. That way the volume control can be reached easier. The volume control is now a slight switch with a digital volume potentiometer. The back side looks exactly as now with a different printing (and better toggle switches). The case is also the same as now.
> 
> The sound will be similar to that of the Arrow 3G but with a much better bass control. There will be two switches to control the bass boost. One that controls the amount of boost and one that controls the height of the boosted frequencies. The output opamp is the AD8397 with automatic power adaption 4-12V (just as now). There is no IMP and no CROSS switch.
> 
> A simple USB DAC based on the PCM2707 chip is also integrated with an switch to turn off the charging. I will give more infos about this once I finished testings.


----------



## esmBOS

^^WANT!


----------



## mpawluk91

I don't know guys from what I just read here it seems like if all you need is an amp than the 4g beats the 5g

Yeah the 5g has the fancy bass boost and dac but come on, it's only got 1 jack (if it breaks your screwed), there's no auto power on/off feature, and no cross switch (I never used it anyway but I'm sure someone does). The amp itself seems like a fun amp but not really HIFI, I love the sound of my arrow 4g with all switches off, it's just an honest beautiful sound

I personally feel that flavored sound from an amp is LAMO unless your aiming for synergy. I crave that reference sound sig


----------



## krismusic

The 5G is not even out yet so I don't think you can say that the 4G beats it. Robert seems to be on an evolutionary path. I doubt that any iteration is going to be inferior to its predecessors. The 5G has a DAC. That in itself is interesting.


----------



## BucketInABucket

krismusic said:


> The 5G is not even out yet so I don't think you can say that the 4G beats it. Robert seems to be on an evolutionary path. I doubt that any iteration is going to be inferior to its predecessors. The 5G has a *DAC*. That in itself is interesting.


 
 I just wish that Robert would produce two versions, one without the DAC, because I have no need for one and am a natural scrimp. Unfortunately, he won't as I asked him on the forums.


----------



## mpawluk91

bucketinabucket said:


> I just wish that Robert would produce two versions, one without the DAC, because I have no need for one and am a natural scrimp. Unfortunately, he won't as I asked him on the forums.


I feel the same way


----------



## kconnor72

I agree...two versions would be ideal. Not sure why he doesn't take this route with his product line, and I say this being an owner of the 4t.


----------



## whoever

jesus, i dreamt of Robert during the night.....that i was going to get my arrow myself.....he lived on a kind of farm, and there were a crowd of teenagers partying around....he was a great guy...and told me my arrow was ready....but i didn't see it.....frustrating though funny dream! 
  
 I guess i'm overrating my wait!!!


----------



## molika

whoever said:


> jesus, i dreamt of Robert during the night.....that i was going to get my arrow myself.....he lived on a kind of farm, and there were a crowd of teenagers partying around....he was a great guy...and told me my arrow was ready....but i didn't see it.....frustrating though funny dream!
> 
> I guess i'm overrating my wait!!!




interestingly I cant see any 4n/t for sale on his website.


----------



## krismusic

whoever said:


> jesus, i dreamt of Robert during the night.....that i was going to get my arrow myself.....he lived on a kind of farm, and there were a crowd of teenagers partying around....he was a great guy...and told me my arrow was ready....but i didn't see it.....frustrating though funny dream!
> 
> I guess i'm overrating my wait!!!



See a doctor immediately!


----------



## whoever

krismusic said:


> See a doctor immediately!




I'm a doctor. ....


----------



## krismusic

whoever said:


> I'm a doctor. ....



Have a word with yourself!


----------



## whoever

krismusic said:


> Have a word with yourself!


 
 i did....highly effective.....i payed myself a great fee because of my high skills!


----------



## krismusic

Ha ha. Now you can spend your high fee on more audio gear!


----------



## georgelai57

Does this thing ever run out of juice? I have a few amps and with most of them if I don't use them for a couple of weeks the battery is near zero. Not so my 4G. I think Robert should go into the battery business instead. Perhaps electric cars!


----------



## DemonFox

krismusic said:


> Ha ha. Now you can spend your high fee on more audio gear!




And thus the cycle continues 



Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## whoever

still nothing....
  
  
 jesus....a refurbished one.....how hard can it be to send out a tracking number or to inform about the actual shipping?
  
  
  
 sorry....frustrated....


----------



## headwhacker

whoever said:


> still nothing....
> 
> 
> jesus....a refurbished one.....how hard can it be to send out a tracking number or to inform about the actual shipping?
> ...


 
  
 Headstage is like that. No response to email, nothing. They will take as much time as they want and keep you in the dark. But I guess they eventually reach their destination no one just when when. Sometimes, they take months. I got frustrated back then and I cancelled instead thru paypal dispute.


----------



## whoever

headwhacker said:


> Headstage is like that. No response to email, nothing. They will take as much time as they want and keep you in the dark. But I guess they eventually reach their destination no one just when when. Sometimes, they take months. I got frustrated back then and I cancelled instead thru paypal dispute.




that sucks!!!


----------



## krismusic

Headstage seems to go through periods of absolutely hopeless customer service. It's not difficult. Good email communication. If the product wasn't so good Headstage would have been sacked off long ago.


----------



## DarrenJamRock

Can't they make a generic email response giving a time limit at least? Stating that they are very busy and will try to get respond within ___ days.


----------



## midnightwalker

georgelai57 said:


> Does this thing ever run out of juice? I have a few amps and with most of them if I don't use them for a couple of weeks the battery is near zero. Not so my 4G. I think Robert should go into the battery business instead. Perhaps electric cars!


 
 The 4G lasts for a week or more. If you are not using it so much, it will be a month lol


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

whoever said:


> that sucks!!!


 
 As I wrote before...
  
 Its just like giving birth...waiting, wating, and when it arrives you forget everything...


----------



## whoever

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> As I wrote before...
> 
> Its just like giving birth...waiting, wating, and when it arrives you forget everything...:bigsmile_face:




you gave birth??


----------



## midnightwalker

whoever said:


> you gave birth??


 
  
 I though you buy a new one for $240 or it was a mistake? I am curious on it.


----------



## whoever

midnightwalker said:


> I though you buy a new one for $240 or it was a mistake? I am curious on it.




refurbished


----------



## midnightwalker

Oh i see, thank you


whoever said:


> refurbished


 
 Oh i see, thank you


----------



## proedros

i waited 3.5 months for my 1g>4G upgrade
  
 still, when it arrived i forgot everything cause this thing rocks !!!
  
 kudos to mr Robert for such a nice , DIY amp


----------



## headwhacker

proedros said:


> i waited 3.5 months for my 1g>4G upgrade
> 
> still, when it arrived i forgot everything cause this thing rocks !!!
> 
> kudos to mr Robert for such a nice , DIY amp


 
  
 Since when did an arrow amp become a DIY? Am I missing something?


----------



## proedros

headwhacker said:


> Since when did an arrow amp become a DIY? Am I missing something?


 
  
 my mistake - i meant an amp made in small quantities from Robert


----------



## krismusic

AFAIK. the Headstage is made in reasonable 
 quantity. It isn't a kitchen table job. 
Robert moved to China to keep QC high. Quite a commitment to his product. 
Shame he doesn't have the same passion for customer service!


----------



## Hellenback

Shame he doesn't have the same passion *time* for customer service!


----------



## Hellenback

headwhacker said:


> Headstage is like that. No response to email, nothing. They will take as much time as they want and keep you in the dark. But I guess they eventually reach their destination no one just when when. Sometimes, they take months. I got frustrated back then and I cancelled instead thru paypal dispute.


 
  
 I've never heard of Headstage not responding to a request for a refund _without_ the need to file a dispute. Check the Toxic cables thread re waiting...and yes, I know Frank replies on this forum but Robert is not a head-fi MOT and his first language isn't English. I've bought amps since the Lyrix and have been frustrated at times with lack of communication, but always received my amp (which is what is important in the end).


----------



## headwhacker

hellenback said:


> I've never heard of Headstage not responding to a request for a refund _without_ the need to file a dispute. Check the Toxic cables thread re waiting...and yes, I know Frank replies on this forum but Robert is not a head-fi MOT and his first language isn't English. I've bought amps since the Lyrix and have been frustrated at times with lack of communication, but always received my amp (which is what is important in the end).


 
  
 I didn't want to do that but I never get any replies via email including the request for a refund. I didn't mind waiting if he just sent a single reply on how long I should wait.
  
 What would you do if he sells an amp indicating that it will ship in a week, I'm not talking about pre-orders here but gone more than a week without any news. 
  
 I only started sending follow up mails after more than a week since I placed my order. How hard it can be to check your mail once in a week. I don't think he receive tons of emails selling his amps.
  
 It never stop vendors from Korea and China replying to my email even if the reply clearly is from a google translate.
  
 I had no choice but to do it via dispute. I know I didn't see any single complaint of not receiving their amps at all. But still waiting indefinitely? Regardless how good a product is you need to establish communication with your customer.


----------



## whoever

He is responding to questions on the help forum.


----------



## krismusic

hellenback said:


> Shame he doesn't have the same passion *time* for customer service!


 
 Robert should either make the time or employ someone to reply on his behalf. He is running a business. Badly IMO.


----------



## GettingBuckets

Anybody know where to get a 3G or 4G or any other version right now? There was one in the forums that I missed out on, so I am still looking.


----------



## georgelai57

I hav





gettingbuckets said:


> Anybody know where to get a 3G or 4G or any other version right now? There was one in the forums that I missed out on, so I am still looking.



I have a 4G I bought new in Sept 2012 from Robert. I'm based in Singapore and can be persuaded to part with it. It has hardly been used since I have quite a few portable amps. PM me.


----------



## whoever

Got my 3g today! YAY! 
  
 this thing is so small i love it!!


----------



## midnightwalker

gettingbuckets said:


> Anybody know where to get a 3G or 4G or any other version right now? There was one in the forums that I missed out on, so I am still looking.


 
 Have one if you wanna buy.


----------



## whoever

finally!


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Congratulations!! So how was it?


----------



## whoever

still listening.....first impressions are pretty good.....no hiss, very variable settings possible for different kind of music, great to switch from classical at all neutral settings, to Boys noize electro fun with incredibly deep and powerful yet clean bass.....well.....stage one bass....stage two starts to get really intense.....feels like standing next to a huge loudspeaker in a club.....a mix between a "wow" moment and a "ok i have to get some distance here..." moment....
 But soundstage is much better than i thought, overall you can either a a great warm enveloping sound or something quite neutral with yet great depth and space....listening to Joanna Newsom right now and the highs are very nice without being too sparkly
  
 still trying to see differences in the crossfeed setting....
  
 weakest point in my opinion is the volume control, too sensitif for such a powerful amp....especially coming from a Fiio e11 with a nob....with the arrow you really need to be careful when reaching for it in your pocket....i guess you make the mistake once or twice to do in a hurry....not a third time. 
 I still prefer this wheel to the Fiio nob though, positioning makes it easier


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

meaning....you also gave birth?


----------



## whoever

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> meaning....you also gave birth?


 
 hahaha, yes indeed i think so....now i understand....
  
 jesus it sounds marvelous with classical music on the dx50.....


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Not mentioning the small/slim form factor, and the utramini LODs. It gave a new meaning of being portable.


----------



## esmBOS

My gym setup. Phone and an arrow 3G taped to a hard cover! UE6000 can take the sweat and the abuse of the gym treadmill 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man I love those ultra-mini IC's!


----------



## whoever

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Not mentioning the small/slim form factor, and the utramini LODs. It gave a new meaning of being portable.


 
 +100%


----------



## whoever

Anybody has an idea where to get this MINI interconnect cables? They are awesome!


----------



## esmBOS

whoever said:


> Anybody has an idea where to get this MINI interconnect cables? They are awesome!


 
 I looked everywhere, and basically got a 3G just to get a hold of the mini cables


----------



## BucketInABucket

whoever said:


> Anybody has an idea where to get this MINI interconnect cables? They are awesome!


 
 I don't think they are sold separately. I asked Robert myself and he said something along the lines of 'these only come with my amp, buy it to get the cable'.


----------



## mpawluk91

bucketinabucket said:


> I don't think they are sold separately. I asked Robert myself and he said something along the lines of 'these only come with my amp, buy it to get the cable'.


That's messed up because I tried to buy em too

I only got em with my 4 g


----------



## whoever

Everybody wants them!!! :-D

Well.....let's try a DIY version.... 

just kidding, but it's a shame, they are indeed awesome!


----------



## mpawluk91

The size is convenient but I would take a custom silver one of the same size over it anyday


----------



## BucketInABucket

mpawluk91 said:


> The size is convenient but I would take a custom silver one of the same size over it anyday


 
 Will be incredibly hard to make a custom one of that size. A klutz like me will never manage it


----------



## mpawluk91

bucketinabucket said:


> Will be incredibly hard to make a custom one of that size. A klutz like me will never manage it


Me neither lol


----------



## whoever

mpawluk91 said:


> Me neither lol


 
 somebody out there who isn't a klutz? (whatever this might actually be !!???


----------



## BucketInABucket

whoever said:


> somebody out there who isn't a klutz? (whatever this might actually be !!???


 
 Robert


----------



## whoever

bucketinabucket said:


> Robert




mhouahaha!


----------



## headwhacker

Go DIY


----------



## esmBOS

headwhacker said:


> Go DIY
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah man I got one of those as well:

 Still love the ultra mini cables from Headstage, and since they seem to be mass produced, I assume the price has to be a lot lower!


----------



## headwhacker

esmbos said:


> Yeah man I got one of those as well:
> 
> 
> 
> Still love the ultra mini cables from Headstage, and since they seem to be mass produced, I assume the price has to be a lot lower!




I doubt it. Didn't cost me much except my time  You will have to buy the amp to get the IC from headstage.


----------



## georgelai57

What's happened to their website? No product whatsoever?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

It may mean they are not accepting orders for the moment.


----------



## georgelai57

They can always just put an Out Of Stock against the product. Anyway I'm still fine with my 4G


----------



## jseaber

headwhacker said:


> I doubt it. Didn't cost me much except my time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 These cables are indeed mass produced, and difficult to source. They'll be available from multiple sources in a few weeks...


----------



## whoever

jseaber said:


> These cables are indeed mass produced, and difficult to source. They'll be available from multiple sources in a few weeks...


 
 well, that sounds like good news! Please keep us updated !


----------



## gazar

Have faith in Robert.. The 4G is still is THE smallest most powerful and user friendly amp for its size. The 5 will be compact and you will wait forever to get one.
  
 Robert remains what he is.
  
  
  
  
 A good guy.


----------



## whoever

gazar said:


> Have faith in Robert.. The 4G is still is THE smallest most powerful and user friendly amp for its size. The 5 will be compact and you will wait forever to get one.
> 
> Robert remains what he is.
> 
> ...


 
 he makes god damned good amps he is! 
  
 I'm astonished by the quality of the 3g i just got, and i can only imagine the other versions…..paires greatly with the DX50….EQ off, and bass at level 1….pure joy!


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Yes the build quality is superb.
 That is why the in the new forum I asked if he has some plans for a high end unit (exotic opamps, better components, class A etc).
  
 Well...received a typical reply: NONE  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So i think he has no plans.


----------



## Hellenback

mpawluk91 said:


> The size is convenient but I would take a custom silver one of the same size over it anyday


 

 I'm a cable believer but at about a 1 inch length I'd bet the farm you wouldn't hear a difference. It's shorter than the adapter you need to use with an i-pod when it's inside most cases!


----------



## midnightwalker

hellenback said:


> I'm a cable believer but at about a 1 inch length I'd bet the farm you wouldn't hear a difference. It's shorter than the adapter you need to use with an i-pod when it's inside most cases!


 
  
 I am not sure if you believe it or not but I used to re-jack my cable. Just the jack but it makes clearly difference.


----------



## krismusic

midnightwalker said:


> I am not sure if you believe it or not but I used to re-jack my cable. Just the jack but it makes clearly difference.



No. Just No. Placebo.


----------



## headwhacker

krismusic said:


> No. Just No. Placebo.


 
 +1, clear difference? It just looks different


----------



## midnightwalker

headwhacker said:


> +1, clear difference? I just looks different


 
  
 Yes, it was the Shure SE530 re-jacked with Viablue jack.


----------



## proedros

any news on the 5G ? The 4G is a fantastic little bugger , btw


----------



## mpawluk91

This thread doesn't get love often


----------



## esmBOS

mpawluk91 said:


> This thread doesn't get love often




Everyone is off enjoying their arrows! No one has any time to post


----------



## krismusic

mpawluk91 said:


> This thread doesn't get love often



I was at a Hi Fi yesterday. Rooms full of thousands of pounds worth of esoteric looking equipment. Guys. You are only trying to listen to a bit of music!
Just the Arrow, my phone and a pair of IEM's. Sorted.


----------



## mpawluk91

Sometimes I forget how good the arrow is. I have mine paired with an x3 via line out. 

It's such a fast pace setup, it really sounds great with my shure srh840 but especially awesome with grado sr325is


----------



## Mmet

Does the sound with the arrow is better than x3 alone ? ....because I have the X3 and shure 535 ...and I want a transparent amp with a wide sound stage and heavy bass to complete my setup


----------



## krismusic

The Arrow has bass boost but that will affect transparency. IMHO you will really struggle to find those two qualities together.


----------



## whoever

krismusic said:


> The Arrow has bass boost but that will affect transparency. IMHO you will really struggle to find those two qualities together.





bass boost at stage 1 and all eq settings off works great on the dx50. Perfect balance between the two...

Yes I know, not a x3....but yet


----------



## mpawluk91

mmet said:


> Does the sound with the arrow is better than x3 alone ? ....because I have the X3 and shure 535 ...and I want a transparent amp with a wide sound stage and heavy bass to complete my setup


Yes! It gets rid of that lazy fiio sound with some shred your face off sound..... In a good way


----------



## Mmet

whoever said:


> bass boost at stage 1 and all eq settings off works great on the dx50. Perfect balance between the two...
> 
> Yes I know, not a x3....but yet


 
  
  


krismusic said:


> The Arrow has bass boost but that will affect transparency. IMHO you will really struggle to find those two qualities together.


 
  
  


mpawluk91 said:


> Yes! It gets rid of that lazy fiio sound with some shred your face off sound..... In a good way


 
 thanks guys for your replies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .... actually there are a lot of options that make me very confused : jds labs O2 , PD XM5 , RSA the hornet or waiting the 5g headstage arrow ....


----------



## whoever

mmet said:


> actually there are a lot of options that make me very confused : jds labs O2 , PD XM5 , RSA the hornet or waiting the 5g headstage arrow ....


 
 yeah, welcome to wonderland! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You buy one, and then you buy another.....and then another...and you're convinced to see drastic differences EVERYtime...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 good luck!


----------



## Hellenback

mmet said:


> thanks guys for your replies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I don't think the 5G is going to be a huge improvement (if any) unless you want/need a redbook DAC with the Arrow in one unit. I _think _I remember reading on the headphonja forum that the same DAC chip is used as in the first "Line-DAC" from Headstage but that could be changed to the 2nd gen.
  
 You gain a basic DAC (which is great if you need one) but from the specs I've read you lose the auto-off function and get a lighted on/off toggle as in the first gen Arrow. There is also supposed to be a digital volume control.


----------



## esmBOS

I Do like that it's going to have a digital volume control, because the only issue I have with my 3G is slight channel imbalance at low volumes!


----------



## krismusic

I really like the auto off function on my 4G. The slim form factor is a winner for me. Combined with a sound that I am fairly sure is pretty much as good as it gets.
One thing though. Does anyone get any effect from the cross feed function? I cannot hear any difference.


----------



## Whippler

krismusic said:


> I really like the auto off function on my 4G. The slim form factor is a winner for me. Combined with a sound that I am fairly sure is pretty much as good as it gets.
> One thing though. Does anyone get any effect from the cross feed function? I cannot hear any difference.


 
 Some occasions when figuring out if it does anything i have heard minor difference, not in a good way. Isn't crossfeed supposed to balance out left and right channel? I have plenty of ACDC, and quite a bit of their songs start out with only in one channel... crossfeeding it with Arrow 4G doesn't really do anything to that, it's still just in one channel :/
  
 Edit: okey it certainly works, hook your HP:s to pc with arrow, go to your sound device configuration in windows, only have other iem/side of the headphone on your head, and play the sound from the other side in the conf menu, its pretty silent on the other channel, but with crossfeed enabled, it's little bit more.
  
 IMO i'd like to have stronger crossfeed for some occasions. Even to the extent of playing it "mono" trough both channels.


----------



## krismusic

whippler said:


> Isn't crossfeed supposed to balance out left and right channel?



As I understand the idea is to feed a little of the right chanel into the left and vice versa to try and recreate some of the experience of listening to speakers.


----------



## esmBOS

krismusic said:


> As I understand the idea is to feed a little of the right chanel into the left and vice versa to try and recreate some of the experience of listening to speakers.


 
 Try the intro of this song with and without crossfeed. Notice how the sound moves slightly in front of you instead of mono from 1 channel.


----------



## Whippler

krismusic said:


> As I understand the idea is to feed a little of the right chanel into the left and vice versa to try and recreate some of the experience of listening to speakers.




ah yes, balance is some what wrong word here since its related with balancing volume. I dont think its to get more speaker like sound, could be, since it's not doing a good job mixing the channels fully to get rid of issues where only one channel has sound in some songs, witch is really annoying with iems.


----------



## mpawluk91

hellenback said:


> I don't think the 5G is going to be a huge improvement (if any) unless you want/need a redbook DAC with the Arrow in one unit. I _think_ I remember reading on the headphonja forum that the same DAC chip is used as in the first "Line-DAC" from Headstage but that could be changed to the 2nd gen.
> 
> You gain a basic DAC (which is great if you need one) but from the specs I've read you lose the auto-off function and get a lighted on/off toggle as in the first gen Arrow. There is also supposed to be a digital volume control.


What do u mean red book dac? Like cd audio? Anyway I probably won't use the dac function but I love my analog volume pot and auto on/off so I'll probably just keep my 4g


----------



## Hellenback

redbook = limited to 16 /44.1 which is the CD spec as you said.  I think the cable also does 16/48...just not 24 bits or higher kHz


----------



## Mmet

If I wanted to get the 4N ..how can I get one ?


----------



## whoever

mmet said:


> If I wanted to get the 4N ..how can I get one ?


 
 your best bet are the classified here at head fi or elswhere second hand…..since Robert has gone missing for the last week…..


----------



## whoever

ah, i spoke too fast.....
  
  
 pre-orders for g5 are open......


----------



## pauldgroot

Jup, I ordered one to pair with my Galaxy S1 and HIFIMAN RE-272's. Now let the waiting begin.


----------



## proedros

pauldgroot said:


> Jup, I ordered one to pair with my Galaxy S1 and* HIFIMAN RE-272's*. Now let the waiting begin.


 
  
 great iem , 3 years in love with it and running

 arrow is one great little ampand completely transparent - you will love it


----------



## redrich2000

I can't believe anyone would be any other portable amp than the arrow, ridiculous battery, auto off, multiple imputs and headphone outs (great for ABing), crazy thin, bass and treble boost and it sounds great and can drive almost anything.


----------



## redrich2000

krismusic said:


> As I understand the idea is to feed a little of the right chanel into the left and vice versa to try and recreate some of the experience of listening to speakers.


 
 It's particularly useful for listening to jazz, recordings will usually have instruments separated quite wide in the mix, so in headphones it sounds very unatural, like the sax and trumpet are at opposite ends of the room. crossfeed corrects that a bit. Although the arrow cross is very subtle.


----------



## thegunner100

redrich2000 said:


> I can't believe anyone would be any other portable amp than the arrow, ridiculous battery, auto off, multiple imputs and headphone outs (great for ABing), crazy thin, bass and treble boost and it sounds great and can drive almost anything.


 
  
 Mainly because there are better sounding portable amps out there.


----------



## pauldgroot

Well, we'll see what the G5 can do then!


----------



## krismusic

thegunner100 said:


> Mainly because there are better sounding portable amps out there.


 
I'm afraid I have to agree. I thought the Arrow was the bee knees. And it is with my IE8's. 
With my HD 600's and now some Final Audio IEM's that I am trying, both much more revealing 'phones, the Arrow just does not sound good. The only other amp I have is an O2. It really shows the Arrow up sound wise. 
A great shame as it is a brick.


----------



## headwhacker

krismusic said:


> I'm afraid I have to agree. I thought the Arrow was the bee knees. And it is with my IE8's.
> With my HD 600's and now some Final Audio IEM's that I am trying, both much more revealing 'phones, the Arrow just does not sound good. The only other amp I have is an O2. It really shows the Arrow up sound wise.
> A great shame as it is a brick.


 
  
 Try the UHA-6SMKII, it can match if not beat O2. Not a brick but I wish it's thin as the arrow.


----------



## whoever

Well, when it comes to power and portability plus adjustment features, the arrows are unbeatable. ..
sound is sure something subjective, but all these other "portable" amps...portable is a joke...


----------



## headwhacker

Portability, power and the reason for using an amp has become subjective as SQ these days. I sure am interested to hear the arrow but giving heavier weight on SQ compared to O2/Leckerton amps which are my reference amp in terms of power and transparency. Sure, the only thing that keeps me interested is the slim profile. If it does beat or matches O2 or the UHA-6SMKII then it's no brainer for me. Unfortunately, comparisons between the above mentioned amps are far in between at best.


----------



## krismusic

Post removed by poster.


----------



## mpawluk91

I love the sound of my arrow, if you don't use any eq switches than most amps should sound very similar. I don't have the golden ear like some of you here


----------



## redrich2000

The truth is the difference between portable amps is miniscule, far smaller than the difference between phones. Even the difference between a portable amp and full desktop is far smaller than the difference between headphones. I use my arrow with plenty of very revealing headphones (AD2000x for example) and it sounds fantastic. It's fine for people to disagree but it annoys me when people say "With my HD 600's and now some Final Audio IEM's that I am trying, both much more revealing 'phones, the Arrow just does not sound good." That's just not true.


----------



## Brooko

One of the biggest issues when people compare is that they never volume match, or they do it by ear (ie highly inaccurate).  The only way to make a valid comparison (even acknowledging that its highly subjective) is to volume match as closely as possible - then a/b.
  
 It's pretty easy to do too - all you need is an spl meter (even an app with a smartphone is better than nothing), a constant tone (I use 1 khz test tone), and a set-up that allows same placement of microphone each time.
  
 Its amazing how many formerly perceived differences disappear when the volume on two devices is exactly the same.
  
 FTR - when I had it, I loved my Arrow with just about everything - including the HD600.  I sometimes think that I may have been far better off just sticking with a 64Gb iTouch4 + Arrow - than moving into the changing world of the new HiRes players.  If Apple came out with a 64Gb Touch with expandable memory, or a 128Gb version - I'd just repurchase the Arrow, sell my other DAPs and I'd be done


----------



## redrich2000

brooko said:


> One of the biggest issues when people compare is that they never volume match, or they do it by ear (ie highly inaccurate).  The only way to make a valid comparison (even acknowledging that its highly subjective) is to volume match as closely as possible - then a/b.
> 
> It's pretty easy to do too - all you need is an spl meter (even an app with a smartphone is better than nothing), a constant tone (I use 1 khz test tone), and a set-up that allows same placement of microphone each time.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I also think you need a switch device, plugging and unplugging takes too long to assess very small differences. I've been using an iMod with a 240gb solid state drive with my arrow. Blu-tac'd together it's only 2cm thick. I still think that's too much though, both the size and the need for interconnects, so I've ordered one of these new Sony players.


----------



## krismusic

redrich2000 said:


> . It's fine for people to disagree but it annoys me when people say "With my HD 600's and now some Final Audio IEM's that I am trying, both much more revealing 'phones, the Arrow just does not sound good." That's just not true.



By "people" I take it you mean me. I am sorry if it annoys you but I am just reporting what I hear.


----------



## redrich2000

krismusic said:


> By "people" I take it you mean me. I am sorry if it annoys you but I am just reporting what I hear.


 
 Yeah that's fine, but I think saying "it sounds bad" is just wrong and misleading. It's better to say, "it sounds harsh to me" or "it's too warm for me" or "I prefer X".


----------



## Brooko

krismusic said:


> By "people" I take it you mean me. I am sorry if it annoys you but I am just reporting what I hear.


 
  
 Its all good - people are allowed opinions.  Question for you though - did you volume match (using an spl rather than 'by ear') before you made the comparison?  I see you have an iPhone - so you could download an SPL app.  Assuming you didn't, would you be prepared to volume match this time, and then compare again?  Would be interesting to see if your thoughts change.  Given you 'sig' (The human brain is a lot cleverer than 4' of wire.)  I'd imagine you'd be game to try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .
  
 The other thing to do is simply to turn the Arrow volume up slightly.  I'm afraid I'm one of those who found your earlier statement quite puzzling. Unless the newer Arrows changed SQ - I always thought mine was pretty much wire with gain when I owned it.  And it sounded great with the HD600 to me.


----------



## krismusic

You are both right. 
I should know better than to post vague information. 
Placebo and expectation make evaluating equipment very difficult. 
Measurements are a way of hanging on to sanity!
I will download that app and explore further. 
Although I totally agree with your rigour, all I was trying to do was listen to a bit of music! 
The Arrow did not sound "nice" and the O2 sounded "better". FWIW a friend said the same without prompting. 
I will attempt to be more analytical when I get a moment. 
In the meantime no offence meant or taken!


----------



## Brooko

Like I said - there is no right or wrong with this - just opinion .... and the pursuit of knowledge.
  
 Post back about the volume thing if you get the chance to do a test genuinely interested.  Using an spl meter opened my eyes about a lot of the differences I "thought" I heard.


----------



## krismusic

Will do.


----------



## krismusic

How do I use an SPL meter to measure the volume of an amp? The ones I have found only seem to measure via the microphone.


----------



## headwhacker

krismusic said:


> How do I use an SPL meter to measure the volume of an amp? The ones I have found only seem to measure via the microphone.


 
  
 That is about it, play a test tone with a headphone connected to the amp. Just run the SPL meter app on your iphone and put your headphone as close to the mic as possible. Adjust the volume on each amp you are comparing until both reach a level you are comfortable with. I set the volume at 80 -85 dB when I compare amps.


----------



## krismusic

Thanks Headwhacker. I'll try it.


----------



## krismusic

Ok. Finally got around to checking this out. To do a really accurate test I need a friend to switch between amps. 
This is what I think is going on. 
I reckon that there is a hardness to the top end of the Arrow which is not there in the O2. 
Switching between the two sources with levels matched as accurately as I can.
I was fully prepared to be wrong about the Arrow but maybe expectation bias is responsible. The difference is very small but I know which amp I would rather use for the 600's. 
I will try and enlist a helper to do a blind test.


----------



## Hellenback

> I will try and enlist a helper to do a blind test.


 
  
 A* very* good idea.
  
 Can't comment on the O2 as I've never heard it but I've used different gen Arrows and have never found it to be harsh or even bright when compared to other amps. In fact I was happy with the addition of the treble switch.
  
 I owned the HD600s and the HD650s at the same time for awhile. I sometimes found the treble to be too much and the bass/fullness too little with the 600s regardless of the amp I used. It isn't that I would never use the 600s as there is some music that sounded better with them. I just find the 650s never give me the brightness fatigue I sometimes experienced with the 600s during extended or high volume listening.
  
  
  
 Different strokes....


----------



## dragnet32

hellenback said:


> A* very* good idea.
> 
> Can't comment on the O2 as I've never heard it but I've used different gen Arrows and have never found it to be harsh or even bright when compared to other amps. In fact I was happy with the addition of the treble switch.
> 
> ...


 

 Hellenback -
  
 I don't post very much but I just wanted to say that I have greatly appreciated your comments over the last four years or so, particularly regarding the Arrow amps.  I have a 2G and a 4G.  I like the darker 2G with my Jays V-Jays (24ohm) portable on the ear phones.  The 4G is a really nice amp also but it is a bit intense in the upper midrange and treble with my Jays V-Jays (even with the treble off at 0.) On the other hand, the 4G does sound great with full size cans, like my HiFiman HE-300's - played through a Music Fidelity V-DAC.  I would probably be better off with the 4N because it has the same opamp AD8397 as the 2G.  I like the HD650's and so I was interested in your comment relative to the HD600's.  I was thinking of buying some HD600's but may research further because I am sensitive to piercing upper mid's .   The 650's are great!


----------



## Hellenback

dragnet32 said:


> Hellenback -
> 
> I don't post very much but I just wanted to say that I have greatly appreciated your comments over the last four years or so, particularly regarding the Arrow amps.  I have a 2G and a 4G.  I like the darker 2G with my Jays V-Jays (24ohm) portable on the ear phones.  The 4G is a really nice amp also but it is a bit intense in the upper midrange and treble with my Jays V-Jays (even with the treble off at 0.) On the other hand, the 4G does sound great with full size cans, like my HiFiman HE-300's - played through a Music Fidelity V-DAC.  I would probably be better off with the 4N because it has the same opamp AD8397 as the 2G.  I like the HD650's and so I was interested in your comment relative to the HD600's.  I was thinking of buying some HD600's but may research further because I am sensitive to piercing upper mid's .   The 650's are great!


 
  
 Thanks for the comment. I don't think I'd call the 600 _piercing_ by any stretch, especially compared to Grados or cans like the DT880s.  I just prefer the 650s with most music as I find they have a more muscular sound (for lack of a better word). Any music without much bass such as baroque classical can sound as good or better on the 600s.
  
 For a desktop I use a balanced set-up and a silver cable with the 650s. To my ears I've taken care of any lack of detail or high-end extension I might have been missing with the stock cable or even a good aftermarket copper one. Having said that, I sometimes wish I still had the 600s to use with the single ended Cardas cable I own. Maybe if/when I find a good deal on a pair 
  
 Thanks again for your friendly reply.  I'm happy if I offered help of any sort.


----------



## proedros

any news on the 5G ?


----------



## aLm0sT

proedros said:


> any news on the 5G ?


 
 According to Robert: 

_"My time plan is now: 2 weeks to get the PCBs, 1 week assembly of the PCBs, 1 week testing the firmware. So maybe I will not get it finished in May. Maybe end of May."_


----------



## jml239

I have the 3.5G. The bass is very nice but overall too dark IMO. Made sad music sadder and happy music less happy if you get what I mean, I hope 5G would be a balance across them all as I love its form factor,


----------



## heart banger-97

I had 4G and I found that it makes my iems a little (just a little) dark. So I think that 3G must be warmer (in this case equals to darker).
 I think that arrows were great amps in past years but with recent competitors (fiio e12, x5 and ibasso dx90) I don't think that they have any merits. Or maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## borrego

Last year Robert sent me an email inviting me to trade in my Arrow 1G to Arrow 4G. When I received my 4G I was slightly disappointed, as the improvement it gave over the 1G was not that obvious. The 4G is could resolve more details but that's just it. I was listening the 4G with the S:flo2 then.

Now I have had the DX90 as DAP for a month and I am glad I did the upgrade last year. The 4G scales with the DX90 and offers very obvious improvement over the DX90 built in amp section to drive my EPH-200. The DX90 built in amp sounds very narrow in sound stage and lack of depth compares with the 4G.

I listen to the 4G with crossfeed set to I all the time. I enjoy the much less fatigueing experience offerred by the crossfeed to the point that I have to buy myself a Meier Audio Corda Classic as my desktop headphone amp.


----------



## Schokolade bar

I use an Arrow 4T (which only took a week to receive !) with an HM-601 as of now, powering most of the headphones I own because my desktop setup is practically collecting dust due to being attached to my tower pc which sorely needs replacing. Personally, I feel as if the Arrow is a very good amp if you give it some time and I honestly would be fine using it over my desktop (matrix m-stage dac and amp) mainly due to a more favorable sound in my opinion and the massive increase of portability. In my scenario the 4T has been a great match with the Westone UM3x with a TWAG cable, but I recently decided to go with some FitEar F-111's and have been using them with the aforementioned setup, I consider both combinations to be wonderful. Regarding over ear headphones, I can't really say much as the only set I own are some HD 650's which get touched about once a month and I don't particularly favor them initially, so my opinion would be biased as I mentioned my dislike for the sound of the HD650, nevertheless they seemed to be driven at an adequate volume and the sound wasn't  too hampered when comparing the 4T setup to my desktop, but this should be taken as a grain of salt as I haven't recently used my desktop setup or HD650's in quite some time. Collectively, I find that the Arrow is a great amp and a somewhat overlooked portable device which deserves more attention, although I feel as if Robert might run into some trouble producing large quantities of his amp, haha.


----------



## mpawluk91

Im putting my arrow 4g up for sale along with my pure silver AudioMinor interconnect for 250$ if anyone is interested


----------



## BucketInABucket

Post it in the classifieds mang.


----------



## mpawluk91

bucketinabucket said:


> Post it in the classifieds mang.


 
 i just did


----------



## whoever

Any news for the 5g?


----------



## Physther

No updates on the headphonia support forum .... I check it every few days.... To be expected (though can be a bummer at times - but IMO well worth the wait!


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

NOW AVAILABLE:
  
  

 
 *Headstage Arrow 5G*
(Clear neutral sound.) 
*US $ 299.00*
  

  
 *Tubeboard for Arrow G5*
(Warm tube-like soundage.) 
*US $ 49.00*
  

 
  
*Punchboard for Arrow G5*
(Deep punchy bass boost.) 
*US $ 69.00*


----------



## whoever

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> NOW AVAILABLE:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 is that an ironic pun?


----------



## Whippler

What DAC does it have? I have been searching for a new dap (zx-1 / calyx m / cowon P1). Maybe i should just get the Arrow 5G, and get a compatible cheap android phone to go with it (not worried on the wifi/2g/3G distortion since i don't plan to use it as a phone at all).
  
 I have Arrow 4G and like it quite a bit, what i want is a stand alone dap, or something to Drive arrow 4G. or just get the 5G, maybe i could trade in the 4G for 5G?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

DAC is PCM2707. 
AD8397 Opamp in Output Stage.
 Tube Boards is an audio board with the AD8620.
Punch Board is ab upgrade board that makes the bass boost much more heavy and punchier.


----------



## Mmet

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> DAC is PCM2707.
> AD8397 Opamp in Output Stage.
> Tube Boards is an audio board with the AD8620.
> Punch Board is ab upgrade board that makes the bass boost much more heavy and punchier.



wow


----------



## Whippler

sounds like i need to buy all of em, then again, id like to have 24/96 support on the dac :/


----------



## whoever

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> DAC is PCM2707.
> AD8397 Opamp in Output Stage.
> Tube Boards is an audio board with the AD8620.
> Punch Board is ab upgrade board that makes the bass boost much more heavy and punchier.




that's sexy!!


----------



## krismusic

whoever said:


> that's sexy!!



Been a while eh?


----------



## mpawluk91

Does anyone know if I'd be able to trade in my arrow 4g towards a 5g?


----------



## esmBOS

Anyone know if anything has been done to the slight channel imbalance issues at low volumes that at least some 3G's were suffering from? As the Arrow 3G is my favorite amp for EDM and bass heavy music I'm definitely getting the 5G Punchboard edition! Can't wait!

 edit: NM! Found the info on headphonias website:

_*Digital Volume Control*_

A digital volume control with 65-steps and mute function has been implemented. Especially users of IEMs will like this new volume control as there is no imbalance between right/left channels on lower volumes as it appears on most analog potentiometers.


----------



## Schokolade bar

I have the 4T 3G, and 4G arrows. The 4G and 4T i think are virtually the same, but the T stands for treble boost which I don't typically use. In relation to the question above my post, I think the 4 series does improve the imbalance at low volumes, but on my FitEar A111's at really low volumes there is a slight imbalance, although it isn't notable with other IEMs or over the head models. Overall the Arrow is my go to portable amp still, I prefer it over other models in it's area such as the RX Mk2 and Pico slim. It also has the best fit/finish of the aforementioned models in my opinion.


----------



## proedros

nice to see Robert around , improving his products

 had a 1G , no problems
 got a 4G , all fine

 will get a 5G if/when my 4G breaks down


----------



## midnightwalker

schokolade bar said:


> I have the 4T 3G, and 4G arrows. The 4G and 4T i think are virtually the same,* but the T stands for treble boost* which I don't typically use. In relation to the question above my post, I think the 4 series does improve the imbalance at low volumes, but on my FitEar A111's at really low volumes there is a slight imbalance, although it isn't notable with other IEMs or over the head models. Overall the Arrow is my go to portable amp still, I prefer it over other models in it's area such as the RX Mk2 and Pico slim. It also has the best fit/finish of the aforementioned models in my opinion.


 
  
 T = Tube-like


----------



## proedros

reading the arrow 5G thread at robert's forum , there is an annoying user named *stas*

 i don't know what bugs me more - that he is completely rude and lacks any manners or that he writes terrible english like and puts words worse than google translate, always complaining and being obnoxious.

 thank god we don't have such members here.


----------



## midnightwalker

proedros said:


> reading the arrow 5G thread at robert's forum , there is an annoying user named *stas*
> 
> i don't know what bugs me more - that he is completely rude and lacks any manners or that he writes terrible english like and puts words worse than google translate, always complaining and being obnoxious.
> 
> thank god we don't have such members here.


 
  
 Well, may be he waits so long for his amp. I am one of the loyalty customers of Headstage. However, I lost my faith on that as Robert could not keep what he promised. The shipping time of Arrow 5G keeps delayed and delayed. Robert told me he will ship the amps on Mar, and then Apr, and then June...till now it is almost the end of July and still there is no commitment on shipping date.
  
 I know that Robert is expecting to make a perfect amp which passes on his requirements. However, he really need to manage every milestones of his project and commit to it. Unexpected delay is normally. However, keeping delay and delay all the time is absolutely not good for the business. 
  
 Even if he does not have enough time to response to each customers, at least update the status to the forum frequently. Weekly or at bi-monthly is fine to me, just 1 post to update the status can save him time to response hundreds emails, make sense? I hope Robert can read this message as well.


----------



## borrego

I read the Headstage forum the other day and it seems Robert is having problem with the USB port gold plating production. I understand the Arrow 5G can be used as a USB DAC but I doubt gold plating will make much difference to the sound. It is actually better for Robert to replace the mini USB port to the more popular micro USB port which all Android phones are using.


----------



## esmBOS

borrego said:


> I read the Headstage forum the other day and it seems Robert is having problem with the USB port gold plating production. I understand the Arrow 5G can be used as a USB DAC but I doubt gold plating will make much difference to the sound. It is actually better for Robert to replace the mini USB port to the more popular micro USB port which all Android phones are using.


 
 Don't understand why micro-USB has become the standard! Don't get me wrong, I like that we finally seem to have a standard, but I would have gone for the mini-USB! It is much more rugged, can handle strain much better, is not noticeably larger and does not wear as fast!


----------



## whoever

any news guys about this 5g?


----------



## midnightwalker

whoever said:


> any news guys about this 5g?


 
  
 I gave up on that


----------



## ANDEROAN

I just got an e-mail from Robert,
  
 (and he says, that they say, that she said, that they might, that someone will) LOL, sorry just having fun,
  
 but seriously he says they will be shipping soon, he's assembling the G5 amps now!!!!!! so we are in the stretch!
  
 yea! thanks Robert!


----------



## Mmet

the website updated now ... and the delivery time identified ... i would love to get the 5P


----------



## Mmet

is there any information about the DAC section that amp ? and the difference between the 5N bass boosting and 5T ?


----------



## Adam Lux

mpawluk91 said:


> Does anyone know if I'd be able to trade in my arrow 4g towards a 5g?



 


Robert said the new amp costs half price if you ship back the old.


----------



## max111

adam lux said:


> mpawluk91 said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know if I'd be able to trade in my arrow 4g towards a 5g?
> ...




Hi do you know if the 50% applies across all models? Also, where should we send the old amp to? Thanks.


----------



## Adam Lux

max111 said:


> Hi do you know if the 50% applies across all models? Also, where should we send the old amp to? Thanks.



 


I don't know any detalis about this discount. You can ask to Robert, he answers eventually: mail@headstage.com


----------



## max111

adam lux said:


> max111 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi do you know if the 50% applies across all models? Also, where should we send the old amp to? Thanks.
> ...



Thanks Adam.


----------



## iHenry

Does anyone have any _NEW_ news about the new Headstage Arrow *5N*?
  
 Has anyone received or even listened to it?
  
 I wonder if the sound of the *5N* is similar to the *4G* ( because I loved the 4G! )
  
 The 5N is also a DAC, I am also guessing whether it will play in the same League, and how it would compare to the Leckerton 6S MkII or 760.
  
 According to what I have heard and touched before, their products are really good, (and Leckertons' too !).
  
  
 The Headstage / Headphonia website says _Delivery in 2 Weeks_, but I am afraid of ordering it now and then be kept in waiting for two months (or more) without news, like some people claim in previous Posts of this Thread.


----------



## iHenry

adam lux said:


> max111 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi do you know if the 50% applies across all models? Also, where should we send the old amp to? Thanks.
> ...


 
  
 The discount details are on their Website: http://www.headstage.com/Upgrade:::1013.html?XTCsid=3ad02ed17fe6c75bf284c568a47321bf
  
 The upgrade applies to *Arrow G1/G2/G3/G4, *to* Arrow 5N*


----------



## Whippler

Interesting, someone at rhapsodio has received arrow 5
 https://www.facebook.com/rhapsodiohk/photos/a.422671181176278.1073741867.254838767959521/611470315629696/?type=1&theater


----------



## Schokolade bar

I don't know why people are hesitant to order...Robert has always delivered in due course, albeit some waiting times but his products are excellently built and sound even better. Admittedly, the wait time is a bit irritating but with the way Robert produces the amps, I can understand the time required, in addition to his devotion to perfection on his Arrow's. I am using the 4T right now and use it as my go-to portable amp along with a Cypher labs portable DAC, sounds great and was undeniably worth the 2 week wait!


----------



## proedros

i have the 4G and it is such a nice amp , kudos to Robert and his weird delivery times


----------



## iHenry

proedros said:


> i have the 4G and it is such a nice amp , kudos to Robert and his weird delivery times


 

 At this time, the website shows 2 weeks as expected delivery time.
  
 I never had an Arrow myself, but heard the previous _"Basic"_ 4G for a while and loved it, it totally had the fun-factor, while keeping a good balance throughout the range, and a nice soundstage.
  
  
 I am dying to get my hands on the new one, but, to be honest, I am a little bit afraid of the fact that you mentioned.
  
 I am not sure if the sound signature will be the same now on the basic 5G which is now called 5N, (for Neutral,  I guess), the explanation on their website seems a bit confusing between different model names, 5G, G5, 5N, 5T, 5P...
  
  
 Hoping someone will review the New Arrow soon !


----------



## zolom

Anyone got the *5P* (*5N+ Punchboard) *allready?
  
 Please post a quick review/hands-on
  
 Thanks


----------



## lethe27

I pulled the trigger for the 5P's as well. Don't exactly know how they would stack up against a Fiio E18 and a CEntrance Dacport. Will provide impressions!


----------



## Mmet

lethe27 said:


> I pulled the trigger for the 5P's as well. Don't exactly know how they would stack up against a Fiio E18 and a CEntrance Dacport. Will provide impressions!


 
 YES PLEASE


----------



## starfly

A question for all you 4N owners out there. I noticed something weird today. I was A/Bing between the 4N and directly from an Ipod Classic (with rockbox firmware), with the EQ off and no bass or treble boost on the 4N. The Ipod and 4N are volume matched (maybe a 5% difference, I'm not a machine ).
  
 So I notice that on certain tracks when listening through the 4N, the leading edge (attack)of a deep bass line is initially soft and then comes back in full force. On the iPod I just hear the attack of the deep bass line in full force right away without that weird initial fade-out and fade-in.
  
 I wonder if this is a bug in my particular model of the 4N or if this is what other people are hearing to.
  
 I was listening to Cowboy Junkies - A Few Bags of Grain, right at the start of that song is where a bass line starts. I know that overall the iPod sounds ever so slightly warmer than the 4N, but this weird bass thing shouldn't be happening either way.
  
 Any thoughts?


----------



## Bark Snarly

How does this compare with the JDS labs c5d? I'm looking at getting a portable DAC/amp to use with my phone and this and the c5d are looking like the most portable options (great battery life and form factor with this in particular) although the ibasso d6 is a bulkier possibility too. I'd be using them with b&w p7's.


----------



## iHenry

starfly said:


> ...
> I know that overall the iPod sounds ever so slightly warmer than the 4N...




Really? I thought it was the other way around.

Is the iPod Classic 7G colder or warmer -sounding than an Arrow N ?

Does the Arrow " T " version (Tube-like ) sound closer to the Wolfson-equipped iPods?


----------



## zolom

Is there anyone who did receive the Arrow 5G (any combination)?
  
 Thanks


----------



## dimmockg

Trying to find info on the different revisions of the arrow

Which model has cross, bass, treble and gain? Each setting

Has one zero or two to select?

Cheers


----------



## borrego

dimmockg said:


> Trying to find info on the different revisions of the arrow
> 
> Which model has cross, bass, treble and gain? Each setting
> 
> ...




My 4G has all the switches you mentioned. I also believe the 4N and 4T have all those switches.


----------



## dimmockg

Thanks for the info

Any idea on the differences? N-neutral? T-tube? G-general?

Just wondering as purchased one on a popular auction site and I'm not 100% certain on the model


----------



## max111

G should be for generation. It used to be just 1g, 2g, 3G and 4g. 4T (tube) and 4n (neutral) came after 4g. For the 5th generation, there are 3 models - 5n, 5t n 5p (punchy).


----------



## dimmockg

Cheers all, so judging by the buttons on mine i have a 4g? Is there any way of determining whether T or N model?


----------



## iHenry

Just bought an Arrow 4 G, and am looking for a Manual but don't seem to be able to find it anywhere.
 Does anybody have a Link to a 4G Manual?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## ANDEROAN

dimmockg said:


> Cheers all, so judging by the buttons on mine i have a 4g? Is there any way of determining whether T or N model?


 
  
 I have 2, 4Gs and 1, 4T, and the only noticeable difference is on the back with the swtches, the 4G has a (chg) on the otherside of the input hole, and the 4T doesn't have it, what the chg stands for you got me, I would have thought it stood for charge? but it is on the opposite of where the mini usb charging port is?


----------



## Mmet

anderoan said:


> I have 2, 4Gs and 1, 4T, and the only noticeable difference is on the back with the swtches, the 4G has a (chg) on the otherside of the input hole, and the 4T doesn't have it, what the chg stands for you got me, I would have thought it stood for charge? but it is on the opposite of where the mini usb charging port is?



And that's all?? No differences in sound!!


----------



## ANDEROAN

you where asking how to tell the difference for which model that you have? a 4G or 4T? and so on, and hence forth, to my knowledge, that is the only way to tell which model that you have,
  
 as to the sound, well hell yes der is a difference!!! but that isn't what you where asking about? sorry for my lack of detail as to any sound difference, lol,
  
 the tube adds a warmer overall sound, richer, but looses some crispness/detail just a little mind you? and adds to a more spacious soundstage, I'm not very good at objective comparisons, I either love things or not? but I gave it a listen for a couple of weeks on my commute to work, eventaully I went back to the 4G, might give it another listen, but it was a very very nice change of pace, its been a few months since I've listened to the 4T,
  
 I have a the 5N/T/P coming, so I am anxious to give it a listen when it does get here,
  
 btw, I'm curious if anyone is for certain if the the 5N is the standard, just without one of the added boards, the T, or P, and by adding either of the two boards, you get the T or P, sound, or without an extra board it is the N, and that is how to get one of either of the 3, or is there also an N board? I'm thinking not, as there are only 2 extra boards listed to buy on the site, just curious, thanks!


----------



## iHenry

anderoan said:


> [...] btw, I'm curious if anyone is for certain if the the 5N is the standard, just without one of the added boards, the T, or P, and by adding either of the two boards, you get the T or P, sound, or without an extra board it is the N, and that is how to get one of either of the 3, or is there also an N board? I'm thinking not, as there are only 2 extra boards listed to buy on the site, just curious, thanks!


 
  
 I agree with you, I think that both the current nomenclature of the 5th Generation Arrow models and the way the description has been written on their website can be a little bit confusing.


----------



## nkoulban

I pre-ordered a 5g back in May.  I have sent 2 emails over the last 3 weeks via the Headstage website requesting a status on delivery and I have not received a reply.  Does anyone have any other contact details so I can at least get a reply on status from Headstage.  I must say that their customer service has been dissapointing in tghis instance.


----------



## ANDEROAN

Robert e-mailed me this yesterday:
  
your amp is on the way to California now, and will be forwarded to you Wednesday or Thursday this week.
  
 sounds like Robert has got the ball rolling! so I am uber happy! lets hope everyone else is on his mailing list?
  
 impressions will be forthcoming


----------



## zolom

anderoan said:


> Robert e-mailed me this yesterday:
> 
> your amp is on the way to California now, and will be forwarded to you Wednesday or Thursday this week.
> 
> ...


 

 Anything new?


----------



## ANDEROAN

ggrrr, ugh, lol, no, but I think Robert is making some changes to my order? I might not see it till next week?
  
 so I guess everday will hold somewhat of a surprise for me till it gets here! hopefully sooner then later, but its all good!


----------



## zolom

Thanks
  
 Please post as soon as you can
  
 BTW, what configuration did you order (5P, 5T, other)?
  
 Thanks again


----------



## sunwolf

I've been using my Arrow 3G often over the past few years. Originally I used it as a portable headphone amp, which it's great for given its small size, but for the past few years it's just been stationary on my desk (connected to the Headstage USB DAC). I had to replace the battery once, which was very easy to do. It's been a great little amp. I love that the amp has dual headphone outputs which allow two of us to listen to music at the same time (using similar headphones so that the volume will be the same).


----------



## iHenry

Both the European and the American Headstage/Headphonia Websites, and the Support Forum, seem to be down right now, all of them show the message:
_  "Diese Präsenz ist derzeit nicht verfügbar_".
  
 Maybe there are some News or changes coming up?


----------



## dworthington59

According to google translation:  

```
[color=rgb(33, 33, 33)] This presence is currently unavailable[/color]
```


----------



## iHenry

Both Websites are back in place, and it looks like some Arrow 5G orders are arriving already !
  
 Check the Support Forum: http://www.headstage.com/forum/forum.php


----------



## proedros

i am very happy with the arrow 4G amp i have for the last 2 years - it really helped out beefing out the sound with my J3 and RE-262/272 setup and i am also using it on my DX90 - even though the dx90 internal amp is good, i seem to prefer using the arrow with both my top iems (RE-272 and RE-600)

 yes, the communication is kinda problematic , but once you get the amp all bad memories are forgotten 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 the exchange program also is a wallet-saver


----------



## proedros

ihenry said:


> Both Websites are back in place, and it looks like some Arrow 5G orders are arriving already !
> 
> Check the Support Forum: http://www.headstage.com/forum/forum.php


 
  
 the user *stas* on the 5g forum is one very RUDE individual

 i am hoping he is not a member here - we definitely don't need people like him around

 if i were robert , i would refund him and never take any new orders from him.


----------



## Mmet

i wish i can afford one as soon as possible


----------



## katulu

I got my Arrow 5N today! The amp is awesome (I have the 4G too), but the nicest surprise was the DAC and the little microusb to microusb cable included. I hooked it up to my Galaxy S5 (running Neutron) and it is FANTASTIC. Took a little time to test the bass boost options (EXTREME BASSHEAD style) and the Bass set on II, with M setting, really made my SZ2000's rattle. Love the instant mute by pressing down on the volume knob. Compared to 4G, there's only one headphone output vs two previously, Bass boost gets frequency options (L, M, H - I believe "Low, Medium, High") and the crossfeed option is gone (who uses that anyway). The charging is switched from miniusb to microusb, and DAC is added (with Off, PC, or Mobile options). Also the Gain button switched location from bottom to top next to the volume control, which is good.
  
 I only wish we could get more technical details (what dB boost do the Gain settings add, what frequencies does the L,M,H Bass boost affect and in what shape)


----------



## Mmet

is there a burning in period for that amp ?


----------



## pixelements

where is the difference between the 5N and 5T? "Warm tube-like soundage" doesn't say anything to me..


----------



## zolom

Being a BassHead, I am very interested in the 5P (or at least the 5N with the PunchBoard).
 Anyone ready to post quick a review of the 5P?
  
  


katulu said:


> I got my Arrow 5N today! The amp is awesome (I have the 4G too), but the nicest surprise was the DAC and the little microusb to microusb cable included. I hooked it up to my Galaxy S5 (running Neutron) and it is FANTASTIC. Took a little time to test the bass boost options (EXTREME BASSHEAD style) and the Bass set on II, with M setting, really made my SZ2000's rattle. Love the instant mute by pressing down on the volume knob. Compared to 4G, there's only one headphone output vs two previously, Bass boost gets frequency options (L, M, H - I believe "Low, Medium, High") and the crossfeed option is gone (who uses that anyway). The charging is switched from miniusb to microusb, and DAC is added (with Off, PC, or Mobile options). Also the Gain button switched location from bottom to top next to the volume control, which is good.
> 
> I only wish we could get more technical details (what dB boost do the Gain settings add, what frequencies does the L,M,H Bass boost affect and in what shape)


 
  
 If the 5P has base noise/hiss (see next post); Than on the 5N or even on the 5T, do the bass boost settings (the two bass selectors) provide significant bass effects? without compremising the mids?
  
 Thanks


----------



## pixelements

I've received an Email from Headstage (I was asking some things about 5P). He told me that the 5P has a base noise/hiss because of it's higher gain. So if I want dead silence (gain/volume being 0), I should buy 5T or 5N.. Now I'm worried a bit.. I really would like to have 5P.. OR Digizoid FS, but I don't really know if its worth it to spend the extra money on 5P. And how the amps are compared in hiss/noise and bass boost..


----------



## Bark Snarly

Nice to see the 5G's are finally shipping! Been considering this or the oppo HA-2 (when it eventually releases) and the fact that this is now shipping makes my choice even harder...

 Does the DAC in this provide a noticeable improvement over a nexus 5? (phone)


----------



## iHenry

I am looking forward to read a Review about the 5G, I am particularly curious about that three-position L,M,H Bass toggle.
 First posted opinions seem to great !
  
  
  
 Quote:


proedros said:


> the user *stas* on the 5g forum is one very RUDE individual
> 
> i am hoping he is not a member here - we definitely don't need people like him around
> 
> if i were robert , i would refund him and never take any new orders from him.


 
  
 I have seen and read that member's comments on the Support Forum and I agree with your opinion (and some others if you read back in this thread).
 Just wondering why you would quote me to refer to that individual.


----------



## proedros

ihenry said:


> I have seen and read that member's comments on the Support Forum and I agree with your opinion (and some others if you read back in this thread).
> Just wondering why you would quote me to refer to that individual.


 
  
 i simply quoted you because you included the link for the arrow forums , no offense meant for you sorry if you misunderstood me

 cheers


----------



## nkoulban

I have emailed Headstage 4 times over 6 weeks and not one reply. I have been patient and polite but I am starting to worry that I won't see my amp that I paid for in full in May. Does anyone have contact details outside of the contact page on the website?


----------



## katulu

nkoulban said:


> I have emailed Headstage 4 times over 6 weeks and not one reply. I have been patient and polite but I am starting to worry that I won't see my amp that I paid for in full in May. Does anyone have contact details outside of the contact page on the website?


 

 My experience, having bought 2 Arrows (4g and now 5N), is that I never received a response to email, so I stopped emailing. I did get my amp both times, within 4 months the first time (2 years ago) and now within 3 months. No use emailing, the amps will be done when they are done. Not saying that's good, just saying that's how it's been for me.


----------



## cn11

katulu said:


> My experience, having bought 2 Arrows (4g and now 5N), is that I never received a response to email, so I stopped emailing. I did get my amp both times, within 4 months the first time (2 years ago) and now within 3 months. No use emailing, the amps will be done when they are done. Not saying that's good, just saying that's how it's been for me.


 
  
 Yup, that's quintessential Robert.... And how it happened for me too.


----------



## sunwolf

Robert definitely has poor customer service. I wouldn't recommend buying from him unless you really love the Arrow. You could have a different amp within a week rather than waiting for months. It's unfortunate that he can't build up a stock so it doesn't take several months, but he must have too much demand.


----------



## BucketInABucket

sunwolf said:


> Robert definitely has poor customer service. I wouldn't recommend buying from him unless you really love the Arrow. You could have a different amp within a week rather than waiting for months. It's unfortunate that he can't build up a stock so it doesn't take several months, but he must have too much demand.


 
 It's a one-man business so it's going to be incredibly hard on him. To be honest, I'm surprised he's lasted in the business for this long!


----------



## nkoulban

Thanks for letting me know about your experiences. I must say that a basic order status from Robert would have been appropriate. I'll hang on until Feb-15, after that I will have to escalate the matter any way I can. I very disappointed in his customer service.


----------



## dizzyraider

Having purchased multiple Arrow from him, yeah.... he is not the type to give you prompt replies. But he has always delivered with the products, so while I have no idea when the European and Australian region orders will go out, he will get your amp to you.


----------



## dizzyraider

pixelements said:


> I've received an Email from Headstage (I was asking some things about 5P). He told me that the 5P has a base noise/hiss because of it's higher gain. So if I want dead silence (gain/volume being 0), I should buy 5T or 5N.. Now I'm worried a bit.. I really would like to have 5P.. OR Digizoid FS, but I don't really know if its worth it to spend the extra money on 5P. And how the amps are compared in hiss/noise and bass boost..


 
  
 I gave it a quick check with my Klipsch X10 in ear to listen for the hiss. Setting volume to max with no music playing, the background is pitch black on gain setting 0 and 1, while 2 has a very faint hiss in the background, again this is with the volume on the absolute max on all three gain settings.
  


bark snarly said:


> Nice to see the 5G's are finally shipping! Been considering this or the oppo HA-2 (when it eventually releases) and the fact that this is now shipping makes my choice even harder...
> 
> Does the DAC in this provide a noticeable improvement over a nexus 5? (phone)


 
  
 I haven't had the chance to try it with the Nexus 5, but is was noticeably better than my ONE M7.


----------



## zolom

What is the battery life on the 5P (using it as DAC+AMP)?
  
 Thanks


----------



## pixelements

dizzyraider said:


> I gave it a quick check with my Klipsch X10 in ear to listen for the hiss. Setting volume to max with no music playing, the background is pitch black on gain setting 0 and 1, while 2 has a very faint hiss in the background, again this is with the volume on the absolute max on all three gain settings.
> 
> 
> I haven't had the chance to try it with the Nexus 5, but is was noticeably better than my ONE M7.


 

 You have the 5P and there is no noise? How.. :O Robert said there is some at 5P, only 5N and 5T are dead silent..


----------



## dizzyraider

pixelements said:


> You have the 5P and there is no noise? How.. :O Robert said there is some at 5P, only 5N and 5T are dead silent..



 


I think he said the 5P (which is what I have) is a little higher than the other two due to the higher gain. I'm not sure if it's only exist/evident with the bad boost on, because with no bass boost, the amp was dead silent with the in ear, and just pure blackness with my full size.


----------



## pixelements

dizzyraider said:


> pixelements said:
> 
> 
> > You have the 5P and there is no noise? How.. :O Robert said there is some at 5P, only 5N and 5T are dead silent..
> ...


 
  
 Damn! I can't decide which one to buy.. 5P or DigiZoid FS ... I like the price and the settings of DigiZoid.. But considering the Arrow 5P because of it's better noise performance..


----------



## dizzyraider

pixelements said:


> Damn! I can't decide which one to buy.. 5P or DigiZoid FS ... I like the price and the settings of DigiZoid.. But considering the Arrow 5P because of it's better noise performance..


 
  
 Depends on what your usage will be. Have never tried DigiZoid so I don't know much about its performance, but for Arrow 5, you might want to check out the 5N instead if your main use is with full size. If my memory serve me correctly, the 5P's bass boost is very much like the 3G's, which has 9db boost on level 1 and +18db for level 2.
  
 When using the bass boost with my IEM, level 1 works pretty well and adds a deep punch, but level 2 can be over powering. Level 2 sound like a car with an oversized subwoofer in the trunk, and you can hear the bass distorting the some of the music. So level 2 with the 5P would only be useful with very specific genre of music (I tested with some bass heavy song, and it is too much) AND and bass light IEM.
  
 When using the bass boost with my full size, level 1 works well on all 3 of my full size (especially with Low on bass freq), but level 2 was way too overpowering. It sounds like you are sitting in front of a subwoofer, and not in a good way. It also made the Alpha Prime distort pretty badly. I think level 2 is something I wouldn't use often with a full size. (Unless you are an EXTREME bass head that likes OVERPOWERING bass)
  
 With the 5N, I believe the boost is +6db for level 1 and +9db for level 2, so it give you more to play with in terms of listenable bass. I would probably only recommend in the situation where you really want the super duper bass boost for IEM. (I only elected for the 5P because I pre-ordered and got the 5P upgrade for free)
  
 The 5N should be exactly the same as 5P in all aspect, except for the double bass boost. So you'll be getting the same amp without the super duper bass....


----------



## zolom

Thanks for the elaborated explanation. After reading your post, I think that the 5T would be more appropritaed for me.
 1. No backgroud noise/hiss at all
 2. The AD8620
 3. Most important: still have noticable Bass, +9db, (I understand that the highest bass level of the 5P with my Shure SE 846 will overwhelm me)
  
 One question though: If I buy the 5T, can I at a later stage take out the T board and replace it wit a P board? or should I purchase the 5N + the T board separately?
  
 Thanks again
  
*Anyone here with a 5T or 5N ?*


----------



## dragnet32

*Anyone here with a 5T or 5N ?*
  
 I am really impressed with the 5T -  posted the comment below on the Headphonia website user support group:
  
 Just a few comments on the 5T (AD8620 + Tubeboard). I have been listening for about one week. This is one great amp! This is the first AD8620 amp I have listened to. I also have a 2G and a 4G - they are good but the 5T is in a higher class SQ wise. One of the first things I noticed was the wider soundstage. Normally I do not like a really wide soundstage but the 5T also seems to have depth. To my ears the combination of width and depth of soundstage are implemented perfectly. Vocals blend in well and are not overpowered by wider soundstage. Bass, mids & highs seem to blend together well (really well!). Mids and highs are very clear without any harshness, very smooth, great treble even without the treble boost. (I dislike piercing upper mids & the 4G gave me a bit of trouble in that regard-but the 4G is still a nice amp). I like the 5T bass (I am not a basshead). Seems to have plenty of bass if it's in the recording. I am using Gain = 0, Treble = 0, Bass = II & Bass Freq M or H. I am using Jays - V-Jays portable headphones and like it with the Hifiman HE-300 full size headphones also.

 Robert - thank you for the great quality and attention to detail & all the testing you put into this amp. I am "way" impressed. I find the sound "addictive" with this amp and will be spending a lot of time with it. Just wanted to make a few comments not a review. Thank you.


----------



## pixelements

Thank you all! One last question.. I still don't know the exact difference between 5N and 5T? What is a tubeboard? That is installed on 5T.


----------



## Mmet

pixelements said:


> Thank you all! One last question.. I still don't know the exact difference between 5N and 5T? What is a tubeboard? That is installed on 5T.


 
 different amp board could be fitted inside the amplifier by simple disassembly and swapping the neutral sound amplifier board ... it is also a solid state amplifier but uses different components  *that can simulate the sound and warmness of the tube amplifier*


----------



## starfly

Anyone know what the output impedance is on the Arrow 5N? I currently have the 4N and it doesn't pair very well with my JH13, probably due to the multi BA setup. The bass sounds weird and subdued with the 4N, whereas direct from my iPod the bass sounds fantastic on the JH13.
  
 I can't find that spec on the website.


----------



## nkoulban

Finally, a reply from Robert. Thank you.


----------



## ANDEROAN

well I've had a week to listen to the 5N, and all I can say is Robert is an artist! this little gizmo it simply awesome!
  
 I am really impressed with the soundstage! holy smokes! its uber full, very spacious, with great instrumnet placement, and seperation!
  
 rediscovering my music here!
  
 this 5N is very engaging! my comute to work is perfect, listening to my 5N puts me in the right mood/frame of mind, and I really look forward to when I can put this setup back on my ears after work,
  
 I do have the P board, and a T board on the way, haven't tried the P board yet, the N is just perfect for me atm,
  
 I'm using my iPod Classics 7th gen, with a line out dock, and my ASG-2s! holy ****zus! what a sound this little baby has! it seems to be made for my ASGs! what a great synergy it has!
  
 like I said Robert is an artist, and what he has put together in the 5G is oh so well worth any kind of waiting/slow e-mail reponses, and any other obsticles you might have/had to go thru,
  
 I love the 4G ALOT! and now Roberts 5G is an unbelievable even more improvement over that? I don't know how he did it but he did! this thing to me is an even bigger sounding and improvement over his 4G? like I says I don't know how he pulled it off, but he did!
  
 so a humungous Thanks to you Robert! keep up the great work! you are truly an artist!


----------



## Mmet

*5TX*


----------



## zolom

mmet said:


> *5TX*


 
  
 I have got a colleague of mine, interested in an AMP/DAC supplement to his gear (Android phone, Weston 40)
 5TX might be suitable for his preferences and budget.
 Can you add more details about the 5TX especially the Bass & Treble boosts.
  
 Me, I am waiting for my 5P to be shipped.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Mmet

zolom said:


> I have got a colleague of mine, interested in an AMP/DAC supplement to his gear (Android phone, Weston 40)
> 5TX might be suitable for his preferences and budget.
> Can you add more details about the 5TX especially the Bass & Treble boosts.
> 
> ...


 
 Actually i don't know too much about it ... just the website description :
  
*"The Arrow 5TX is the successor of the 5T. Two BUF634 buffers increase the AD8620's output current to 250mA per each channel. This will let the AD8620 operate with less distortion as it doesn't have to drive the headphones directly. Sound quality is is further improved by biasing the AD8620 into class A operation using cascaded JFETs. This will make the Arrow 5TX a true high-end amp with the same size and functionality of the 5T! "*
  
 but it looks very tempting already


----------



## zolom

Got the *5P* yesterday. Had a short while to try it with the LG G3 (android 5). The USB audio connection operates OK with the LG native drivers (no need for USB Audio Player, or such). It pairs beautifully with the Shure SE846.
 Sound quality is excellent as well as the soundstage. I will try to compare the 5P amp against the RSA Shadow amplifier.
 Bass boost is great, though, some may find maximum settings too overwhelming. I love bass, so for most of my music (Metal, Hard Rock) its just fine.

 Thanks Robert for a great device


----------



## musicinmymind

zolom said:


> Got the *5P* yesterday. Had a short while to try them with the LG G3 (android 5). The USB audio connection operates OK with the LG native drivers (no need for USB Audio Player, or such). It pairs beautifully with the Shure SE846.
> Sound quality is excellent as well as the soundstage. *I will try to compare the 5P amp against the RSA Shadow amplifier*.
> Bass boost is great, though, some may find maximum settings too overwhelming. I love bass, so for most of my music (Metal, Hard Rock) its just fine.
> 
> Thanks Robert for a great device


----------



## s1rrah

zolom said:


> Got the *5P* yesterday. Had a short while to try it with the LG G3 (android 5). The USB audio connection operates OK with the LG native drivers (no need for USB Audio Player, or such). It pairs beautifully with the Shure SE846.
> Sound quality is excellent as well as the soundstage. I will try to compare the 5P amp against the RSA Shadow amplifier.
> Bass boost is great, though, some may find maximum settings too overwhelming. I love bass, so for most of my music (Metal, Hard Rock) its just fine.
> 
> Thanks Robert for a great device


 
  
 With the 5P, the "punch board" can be removed, yes? Thinking about getting one of these and if the bass is too much, I'd like the option to remove the punch board ...


----------



## zolom

You will have to check with Robert about  that. 
 The previous P and T boards are not present anymore on his site. No mention about a 5TX board yet


----------



## zolom

*Brief impression - *5P amp vs. RSA Shadow:
  
 Compared the *5P* against *RSA Shadow *amplifier (amp only, input via audio interconnect silver cable, source LG G3, Shure SE846 IEM, streaming music only, did not try higher quality bit rate) -
 - Great sound quality on both (some minor signature differences)
 - RSA more warm (bass at minimum on 5P)
 - RSA's bass has more attack (bass at minimum on 5P)
 -  Similar sound stage
 - Voices more forwarded on 5P
 -  Bass more prominent on 5P (when set to level 2 and even 1, on 5P)
 - Treble more prominent on 5P (when set to level 2 and even 1, on 5P)
 - Ability to control bass boost's frequencies on 5P (low, mid, high)
 - RSA Shadow is thicker but has smaller foot print than the 5P
 - Some (minor) hiss on 5P at high gains. Goes away when music plays
  
  
*Note:* I am not an audiophile, this is not a scientific AB


----------



## Mmet

zolom said:


> *Brief impression -* 5P amp vs. RSA Shadow:
> 
> Compared the *5P* against *RSA Shadow* amplifier (amp only, input via audio interconnect silver cable, source LG G3, Shure SE846 IEM, streaming music only, did not try higher quality bit rate) -
> - Great sound quality on both (some minor signature differences)
> ...



Very nice comparison it looks very logical and truthful,thanks


----------



## CalvinXC

Is the 5N compatible with some IEMs that have super high sensitivity? I don't want any hiss, someone told Cayin C5 have super clean background, still audible hiss with my SE535ltd. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyone? If it got no hiss with 846, it shouldn't be a problem with the 535.
 Can the DAC section decode 24bit?


----------



## zolom

Cannot comment about the 5N (I have the 5P).
 With my (sensitive) Shure 846, the level of hiss is very low and only with very high volume settings. It goes away when music starts.


----------



## CalvinXC

zolom said:


> Cannot comment about the 5N (I have the 5P).
> With my (sensitive) Shure 846, the level of hiss is very low and only with very high volume settings. It goes away when music starts.



Anywhere close to dead silence on 846? I don't have enough friends to test out my gears and stuff, some of just can't even differentiate lossless and radio quality. But my ears are super sensitive to those noise, I can get a headache out of it if it's loud. You might think that's crazy, I can hear slight hiss out of my iPhone 5 ( AFAIK iPhone 5s and newer are much better in this, but I can really hear it, it's not there all the time but it's there). I don't want to spend close to 300 dollars getting an amp that hiss with my iem and I have to sell it again.


----------



## proedros

can someone compare the 5N with the 4G - is it a definite improvement ?
  
 also, is there an option to trade your 4G amp for a 5N ?


----------



## ANDEROAN

Yes I like the 5N over the 4G, has been a while since I listened to the 4G, in general better bass, more detail, bigger ss, I was very very impressed, I highly recomend, definately an improvement! I didn't think it was possible? but Robert did it, I loved my 4G, now I love the 5N even more, hhmmm, go figure, lol,
  
 for upgrading go to http://www.headstage.com/Upgrade:::1013.html?XTCsid=a09453e74c1ddae7714a5014a74c045c


----------



## bigbung

To all those interested in the arrow 5P I posted this on the headphonia forum, feel free to ask questions....
  
 "I have had my Arrow 5P for the past 1 week now and I am very impressed,I am not an expert by any means and I just wanted to give my amateur thoughts.
 This is the first arrow amp I have owned so I cannot say much about the other models. First I have to say I was so surprised at how small the amp is, I knew it was small but not this small...it is really tiny and I keep wondering how such a tiny device can be so nice. It feels very well built and all the small knobs look like quality stuff.The USB looks excellent in gold.
  
 I have 2 over ear headphones, a HD650 and ATH M50s and an IEM RHA 750i and the Arrow 5P sounds fantastic with all of them. I drive the IEMs with the gain at 0 and I find they don't need any more than that for the volumes I listen at The hissing actually increases at gain 1 & 2. For the M50s and H650 I use gain level 2. The HD650s don't have any hissing even at gain 2 but I find the M50s have slight hissing at gain 2. I should add that all the hissing disappears when the music starts playing so it doesn't bother me one bit.
  
 The treble is nice to play with with all the headphones and I find myself using all 3 levels depending on the music, the mids and highs are very clean and sound very clear at all this levels. And now the bass which is the main reason I bought the 5P, I have to say I am not disappointed, the 5P has very clean, controlled and punchy bass. I find myself using gain 2 with the hd650s but only need gain 1 for the other 2 headphones as gain 2 is too much bass. I also love that you can choose the frequencies to enhance the bass, low, mid or higher bass frequencies, I use M or H most of the times with H almost always sounding like too much bass. I know that the rha 750i and M50s don't need much amplification but they sound 10x better with the arrow. My greatest joy has been using it with the hd650 as my previous fiio amp wasn't doing it justice, i was torn between the 5T and 5P since most people say the 650 sounds better with tubes but I am so glad I got the 5P because of the extra edge it has in the bass department. One point of not is that I haven't been able to use it as a DAC with my HTC desire 600 phone and my wife's Samsung using the Micro USB but it is probably a firmware issue.
  
 Thank you Robert for a great device, the wait was very long but well worth it in the end."


----------



## zolom

DAC with Phone:
 Hope you had used a USB OTG cable with the Android phone and set the DAC switch to "M".
  
 More options:
 Try another OTG cable
 Use external supply (via Y OTG cable or self powered USB Hub)
 Set Android version to 4.4.x or above


----------



## bigbung

zolom said:


> DAC with Phone:
> Hope you had used a USB OTG cable with the Android phone and set the DAC switch to "M".
> 
> More options:
> ...


 

 Yes I used the USB OTG cable that comes with the amp. I don't understand the external supply suggestion. I think the main issue is the android version I have.
 Thanks


----------



## flinkenick

bigbung said:


> Yes I used the USB OTG cable that comes with the amp. I don't understand the external supply suggestion. I think the main issue is the android version I have.
> Thanks


 
  
 Hi there, I'm still waiting on my 5TX (for over 6 weeks), anyone else here?
  
 What's that about it not working with your android phone? I plan to use it with my Galaxy 3 (I really don't care about phones) with android 4.3. Do you think the dac might not work?


----------



## flinkenick

zolom said:


> DAC with Phone:
> Hope you had used a USB OTG cable with the Android phone and set the DAC switch to "M".
> 
> More options:
> ...


 
 Do you know if the Headstage only works with android 4.4 and higher?


----------



## flinkenick

Never mind, just got a second hand HTC M8 to be sure. S3 was getting slow anyways and M8 is supposedly the best for audio.


----------



## mscott58

Has anyone actually heard a 5TX yet? I have a 4T and was thinking about changing to a Leckerton UHA6SMkII but then I read about the 5TX on the Headstage site. As a note I'd only be using either for their amp functionality to support my DAP, not interested in the DAC portions of these two products. Thanks!


----------



## cmeeren

Hi all,
  
 Is the 5TX inherently better than the 5N (in which ways?), or does it just provide a different sound?


----------



## flinkenick

cmeeren said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Is the 5TX inherently better than the 5N (in which ways?), or does it just provide a different sound?


 
 If I understand correctly from the description warmer (tube like) sound + increased soundstage.
  
 I don't think one has been sold yet.. I think it came online around december, I ordered begin januari and have been waiting since.


----------



## feverfive

I just remembered I got an email from Robert a few weeks ago saying I can upgrade again, bu this time, upgrade price seemed relatively steep ($250USD, I think).  I currently have the 4G version (I started w/ the 2G, then 3G, then 4G).  All these devices adding DACs is making portable amplification a bit more expensive.  I do understand how the market is moving, so it's not a complaint, just an observation.
  
 Anyway, I don't even use my 4G Arrow (doubt I even have 50 total hours on it), so I won't be upgrading to the 5.  I'd sell my 4G, but doubt I can get enough to make it worth me driving 50 miles round trip to get it shipped (I live in a tiny town).
  
 Hahaha, just noticed wait times for receipt of product seem to remain pretty long.  It's comforting to know some things never change!  =)


----------



## flinkenick

So if there's anyone else out there waiting for a 5TX, I just got word back from Robert. The 5TX will take a few weeks longer because the factories in China closed earlier than expected for Chinese New Year. I think a batch of 5N and 5P's are ready. 
  
 Luckily Robert has offered to send a 5P in the meanwhile.. For which I am very grateful. Excellent service.


----------



## cmeeren

Quote:


> cmeeren said:
> 
> 
> > Is the 5TX inherently better than the 5N (in which ways?), or does it just provide a different sound?
> ...


 
 I've heard that too, but interestingly, the description doesn't say anything about that; it's all about less distortion and improved SQ. So I'm still confused.
  
 Anyone else know if the 5TX is objectively better than the 5N, or if it just provides a different sound?


----------



## flinkenick

cmeeren said:


> Quote:
> I've heard that too, but interestingly, the description doesn't say anything about that; it's all about less distortion and improved SQ. So I'm still confused.
> 
> Anyone else know if the 5TX is objectively better than the 5N, or if it just provides a different sound?


 
 Well from the description I get that it is both objectively better because of a different board / buffers, _and _has a different sound, but also because I got the 4T recommended over the 4G a while back from another head fi'er, who said firsthand that the T models sound warmer.
  
 That being said, I don't think anyone has heard the 5TX yet because the first still has to be delivered.
  
 If you're trying to make a choice, I would focus on your sound preference. Do you prefer a warm or analytic sound? I have a strong preference for a warm sound so the 5TX is an easy choice. If you prefer a clean, analytic sound go for the 5N, or 5P if your priority is bass. 
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## cmeeren

> Originally Posted by *flinkenick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> If you're trying to make a choice, I would focus on your sound preference. Do you prefer a warm or analytic sound? I have a strong preference for a warm sound so the 5TX is an easy choice. If you prefer a clean, analytic sound go for the 5N, or 5P if your priority is bass.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 
 Thank you, it helps. My problem though is that I still don't know what kind of sound I prefer, because I only have the Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro (which I like) and nothing else for comparison, and thus I have little experience with what "warm" and "analytical" means. But from what I've read, of the two, I think "warm" would be the safest choice for people not really knowing what they want, so perhaps I'll see if I can get my hands on a 5TX.


----------



## flinkenick

cmeeren said:


> Thank you, it helps. My problem though is that I still don't know what kind of sound I prefer, because I only have the Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro (which I like) and nothing else for comparison, and thus I have little experience with what "warm" and "analytical" means. But from what I've read, of the two, I think "warm" would be the safest choice for people not really knowing what they want, so perhaps I'll see if I can get my hands on a 5TX.


 
 Personally I think you would be investing relatively much in your amp vs headphone, since the 5TX is twice as expensive as the Beyerdynamic.. IMO the headphones are always the most important link (and money should be spent accordingly).
  
 Alternatively you could consider a cheaper Fiio model that would work fine in combination with the Beyerdynamic, and save the rest to invest in better headphones when you're ready for an upgrade. To me that would make more sense..


----------



## cmeeren

flinkenick said:


> Personally I think you would be investing relatively much in your amp vs headphone, since the 5TX is twice as expensive as the Beyerdynamic.. IMO the headphones are always the most important link (and money should be spent accordingly).


 
 I wholeheartedly agree, I just forgot to mention that the reason I recently registered here is that I'm looking to purchase some CIEMs, possibly the M-Fidelity (formerly Starkey) SA-43. That would put the amp at around half the price of the monitors.
  
 The Beyerdynamics themselves are very forgiving and I've never felt the need for an amp. I briefly tried the Fiio E18 recently, and while there was a difference compared to my normal source (computer sound card), I had to listen for it in order to hear it.


----------



## flinkenick

cmeeren said:


> I wholeheartedly agree, I just forgot to mention that the reason I recently registered here is that I'm looking to purchase some CIEMs, possibly the M-Fidelity (formerly Starkey) SA-43. That would put the amp at around half the price of the monitors.
> 
> The Beyerdynamics themselves are very forgiving and I've never felt the need for an amp. I briefly tried the Fiio E18 recently, and while there was a difference compared to my normal source (computer sound card), I had to listen for it in order to hear it.


 
 Ooh ok yeah that makes more sense  Hadn't heard of them but the description is interesting. 
  
 Maybe there's a hifi store in town where you could test different amps, and see if you prefer a warm or analytic sound?


----------



## tracyca

Does anyone know what Dac selection is in the arrow 5


----------



## Mmet

tracyca said:


> Does anyone know what Dac selection is in the arrow 5


 
 no one knows any thing about the arrow 5 the most mysterious amp i've ever seen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  ....except there is one or two here saying it sounds fantastic !!!!


----------



## TonySunshine

PCM2707 which is capable of 16bit/48khz sampling
  
 http://www.headstage.com/forum/showthread.php/26-Bit-Sample-Rate
  
 Quote:


tracyca said:


> Does anyone know what Dac selection is in the arrow 5


----------



## tracyca

Thank you!


----------



## whoever

whats the actual delivery situation? Still ongoing mystery? i'm hesitating between this and a Vorzuge Duo….which is so much more money….but vs so much more waiting…...


----------



## flinkenick

I think the 5N and 5P's are ready to be shipped. Robert is sending a 5P right now. The 5TX wil be ready somewhere in March..


----------



## zolom

Headphonia site only offers the 5TX. 
Are the 5P and 5N obsolete ?


----------



## MalleAvel

Just gonna pop my head in here, does anyone know how often new versions of the arrow get released?


----------



## Rayzilla

A friend of mine brought over the 5N. I tried it with my MBAir and HD 800. Wow, very nice brief impression. Unfortunately I only tried it for about 15 minutes.Bottom line is I will be buying one. Put in an order for the 5TX bit after reading your comments below, I am not so sure now.



flinkenick said:


> ...
> If you're trying to make a choice, I would focus on your sound preference. Do you prefer a warm or analytic sound? I have a strong preference for a warm sound so the 5TX is an easy choice. If you prefer a clean, analytic sound go for the 5N, or 5P if your priority is bass.
> 
> Hope this helps.




I think I prefer a less warm sound. Are the parts in the 5TX better than the 5N? As a consumer, you usually want the latest model. Should I not follow that line of thinking here?


----------



## flinkenick

rayzilla said:


> A friend of mine brought over the 5N. I tried it with my MBAir and HD 800. Wow, very nice brief impression. Unfortunately I only tried it for about 15 minutes.Bottom line is I will be buying one. Put in an order for the 5TX bit after reading your comments below, I am not so sure now.
> I think I prefer a less warm sound. Are the parts in the 5TX better than the 5N? As a consumer, you usually want the latest model. Should I not follow that line of thinking here?


 
 So to start off, Roberts descriptoin of the 5TX claims it is better than the 5N. But he only mentions soundstage, and I'm not sure if it will drastically improve that.. The 5N and 5TX are the same model (5th generation), but with a different board. The 5TX has a tube like board giving it a warmer sound and different buffers I believe.
  
 But again, when it comes to sound there is no objective 'better', just preference. Like you can argue that a (pure) silver cable is better than a copper cable, because its materials are more expensive etc., but that doesn't mean everyone will like it more (I really don't like pure silver). So if you know you prefer an analytic sound, then it's better to get the 5P or 5N. Because the slight increase in soundstage or whatever won't trump the warmer sound. 
  
 But this is slightly moot at the moment, since Robert took the 5N and 5P off the website.. I emailed him to ask what's up, but he hasn't responded yet. I'm listening to a 5P at the moment, I'll get the 5TX in a month or so. Since it's gonna take another month for the 5TX to arrive, I would just email Robert and say you prefer a 5N (or P), I can't imagine it being a problem.


----------



## flinkenick

Oh btw.. I see you're in Hong Kong. Maybe you could even drive over and just pick up a 5N


----------



## TonySunshine

my understanding is that the 5TX will use the AD8620 opamp for the output stage, which is different(and arguably better) than the one used in the 5N/P.
 you can read about the AD8620 opamp here
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/669830/fiio-x3-mod-ad8397-to-ad8620
 http://www.leckertonaudio.com/blog/2014/6/5/new-dual-to-single-op-amp-adapter-provides-high-performance-option-for-uha-6smkii
  
 Oddly enough the fiio x3 guys say the AD8620 is a more neutral sounding opamp, which goes against the TX supposedly having a more "tube like" warm sound
  
 Quote:


flinkenick said:


> So to start off, Roberts descriptoin of the 5TX claims it is better than the 5N. But he only mentions soundstage, and I'm not sure if it will drastically improve that.. The 5N and 5TX are the same model (5th generation), but with a different board. The 5TX has a tube like board giving it a warmer sound and different buffers I believe.
> 
> But again, when it comes to sound there is no objective 'better', just preference. Like you can argue that a (pure) silver cable is better than a copper cable, because its materials are more expensive etc., but that doesn't mean everyone will like it more (I really don't like pure silver). So if you know you prefer an analytic sound, then it's better to get the 5P or 5N. Because the slight increase in soundstage or whatever won't trump the warmer sound.
> 
> But this is slightly moot at the moment, since Robert took the 5N and 5P off the website.. I emailed him to ask what's up, but he hasn't responded yet. I'm listening to a 5P at the moment, I'll get the 5TX in a month or so. Since it's gonna take another month for the 5TX to arrive, I would just email Robert and say you prefer a 5N (or P), I can't imagine it being a problem.


----------



## flinkenick

Hmm that is strange.. I'm going off what Robert describes the 5TX to be.. 
  
 I don't know if the 5TX is completely different than the 4T, but I've heard first hand that the 4T was the 'warm' version. Hard to imagine thats not the case now..


----------



## Mmet

the difference about opamps not that significant ... what is the most important is the implementation of the opamp and the circuit around it ... that what gives 99% of the sound characteristics ... so it is not strange that it can give a warm sound with 5TX and neutral sound with Fiio X3  .... i modded my X3 with AD8066 that gives SLIGHTLY more aggressive and less soft sound and that is all ... about 5% change but i needed those


----------



## flinkenick

Who else here has a 5P? Man that adds some serious bass.. The 2nd bass setting is too much for a lot of genres, but it can sound amazing with some..


----------



## zolom

Got the 5P for a while. With my Shure SE846, it soubds truely SUPERB! 
I like full or almost full bass effect with mid treble settings. Listning to streaming RDIO, mostly to metal, hard rock and fussion jazz.

RECOMMENDED.


----------



## flinkenick

Ah me the same! At first i thought the 2nd bass setting was too much even for bassy genres because it shifts the balance too much between high/lows, but when you add the first treble setting it compensates and you get this incredible full sound - insane. Of course we've drifted from the balanced 'audiophile' sound, but it sounds so good!!
  
 I'm rediscovering hip hop and EDM now.. Especially hip hop sounds so badass. But I can see that for rock too, same kind of energy  
  
 I have the 5P now, but Robert's going to add the extra bass to the 5TX I'm waiting on


----------



## zolom

As far as I had read , the 5TX bass settings, are going to be the same as the 5N, 5T, which are 0, +3, +6 db. Not large as those of the 5P. Is the 5TX gonna have higher bass values?


----------



## flinkenick

Yes originally the bass settings were gonna be the same as the N and T (I think it was +6 / +9), but Robert said it's not a problem to add the +18 setting to the 5TX


----------



## zolom

If that's the case, I might upgrade from 5P to a bassy 5TX


----------



## flinkenick

If you prefer a warm sound then yeah definitely  But it's gonna take a while before the 5TX is finished I think. Release is set for begin April, but could be extended again


----------



## wjblaney

zolom said:


> Got the *5P* yesterday. Had a short while to try it with the LG G3 (android 5). The USB audio connection operates OK with the LG native drivers (no need for USB Audio Player, or such). It pairs beautifully with the Shure SE846.
> Sound quality is excellent as well as the soundstage. I will try to compare the 5P amp against the RSA Shadow amplifier.
> Bass boost is great, though, some may find maximum settings too overwhelming. I love bass, so for most of my music (Metal, Hard Rock) its just fine.
> 
> Thanks Robert for a great device


 

 Shure, a great device but I didn't get what you meant exactly by "no need for USB Audio Player". I've been using the G4 for 2-3 years and the only use for the USB port on it is for recharging the battery, be it from a USB connection to a USB Audio Player or a computer. You can also get a USB adapter with a USB port on the back side and two prongs that connect to any ordinary electrical outlet so you can recharge it off the wall. So how has this changed?


----------



## wjblaney

proedros said:


> can someone compare the 5N with the 4G - is it a definite improvement ?
> 
> also, is there an option to trade your 4G amp for a 5N ?


 

 I bought the 4g 2-3 years ago so Robert contacted me by email on Jan. 9 2015 to see if I wanted to upgrade the 4g to the 5TX for $249. That's why I'm back on this thread but I'm almost positive I'll go for it. If you're interested in that exchange, I don't see why he wouldn't go for it. Please don't mention me or the price he offered to me.
  
 LUCK


----------



## zolom

wjblaney said:


> Shure, a great device but I didn't get what you meant exactly by "no need for USB Audio Player". I've been using the G4 for 2-3 years and the only use for the USB port on it is for recharging the battery, be it from a USB connection to a USB Audio Player or a computer. You can also get a USB adapter with a USB port on the back side and two prongs that connect to any ordinary electrical outlet so you can recharge it off the wall. So how has this changed?



 


I referred to the DAC of the 5P.


----------



## wjblaney

zolom said:


> wjblaney said:
> 
> 
> > Shure, a great device but I didn't get what you meant exactly by "no need for USB Audio Player". I've been using the G4 for 2-3 years and the only use for the USB port on it is for recharging the battery, be it from a USB connection to a USB Audio Player or a computer. You can also get a USB adapter with a USB port on the back side and two prongs that connect to any ordinary electrical outlet so you can recharge it off the wall. So how has this changed?
> ...


 

 I'm not familiar with that technology. I take it, it's some kind of port that connects to what and what for? It wasn't a part of the 4g model and it wasn't mentioned (as I recall) in the 4g User Guide. That fact and also, from reading recent posts on this thread, makes me wonder if Robert has two lines of headphone amps. I know there was a 2g followed by a 3g and then a 4g (which I have and which Robert has offered to give me a 5TX in exchange for $249 plus the old 4g).
  
 Would you mind explaining DAC technology, the 4g vs the 5TX and whether he sells two different lines of amps or simply updates (if so, what is the update model # sequence?)


----------



## zolom

I assume that all Headstage Arrow 5 are AMP+DAC, Previous models were AMPs.


----------



## wjblaney

zolom said:


> I assume that all Headstage Arrow 5 are AMP+DAC, Previous models were AMPs.


 
 So the 5TX has got to be an improvement since it is both. Whether the improvement is worth the price is the question, isn't it? And isn't it over 500 USD or Euros?


----------



## flinkenick

If you need a dac it's definitely an improvement. It's 350 euro or 474 dollars. But all this info is also on the headstage site..


----------



## wjblaney

flinkenick said:


> If you need a dac it's definitely an improvement. It's 350 euro or 474 dollars. But all this info is also on the headstage site..


 
 Info is one thing. Info from unbiased and multiple sources is another.


----------



## flinkenick

Does anyone have a clever way of protecting their Arrow from scratches when attached to the source? 
  
 I'm using rubberbands now, but am thinking of using an iphone 4 plastic cover to protect one side, they're about the same width just a bit longer. I was looking for those stick on rubbers but can't find them anywhere


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

3M velcro dual lock low profile adhesive tape
  
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/3M-SJ4570-LOW-PROFILE-ADHESIVE-DUAL-LOCK-CLEAR-/250856312855?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item3a68339017 
  

  
 On a standard dual lock velcro. Now chaged to low profile. Previous was PITA to remove.


----------



## flinkenick

Ah nice yeah looking good mate. I think I saw your setup before on the head fi or headstage site, or a very similar setup  Thanks for the info I'll check it out.
  
 Where do you get the velcro btw?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Provided you a link on ebay on my post.


----------



## flinkenick

Yes but isn't that only for the tape to attach the velcro to the amp, or am I missing something?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

The adhesive tape IS the velcro.


----------



## flinkenick

Oh great thanks man, got it. That looks like a great system. What happens if you have to take the tape off, do you know if it messes up the plastic or something?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Nope...it leaves sometimes some adhesive residue but you can wipe it out.


----------



## flinkenick

Perfect. Thanks for the tip, I'll get on it


----------



## flinkenick

Anyone interested, please check out my review of the Arrow 5P! 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/products/headstage-arrow-12he/reviews/12852
  
 Cheers!


----------



## ANDEROAN

yes I agree 200%! awesome review, thanks! as I've said Robert is an artist! truely an artist!
  
 thanks for reviewing the Power Baord, I have one, but am in love with the 5N, but have yet to swap it over, my ASG-2's paired with the 5N give me great bass, and detail along with the awesome sound stage make it hard for me to listen/ look further into switching over to the PB, but your review peeks my curiosity, now I'm afraid to find out just how much of a bass head I truly am! buwahahaha, lol,
  
 Happy Listening everyone!


----------



## zolom

Accurate review. Being a basshead, I truely enjoy my 5P listening mostly to hard rock and metal. It couples beautifully with the Shure SE846.

Great product by Robert.


BTW, following a question I sent Robert about the 5P dissapearance from the Headfonia site, he replied me (on march 15th) that the 5P, should return later.


----------



## flinkenick

Thanks guys appreciate it  Zolom have you sent a mail since? March 16th was the last time I got a reply, sent about 3 emails since and haven't heard anything.


----------



## zolom

No, I did not try to contact Robert, since then.


----------



## johnwamp55

Hello all I have been demoing portable amps for the past seven years with the goal of improving the over all sound coming from my Various DAPs (X3,DX100,DX50). I have read how an amp can help but after demoing various top end amps I didnt hear any great improvements from my IEMS ( customs and universals) but I did get a sense of added power.  When I met an owner of a audio shop to demo his IEM he had an amp and I quickly noticed how small it was. It was so thin and tiny so I asked him if I can see it and I notice how well made it was and that it had a lot of features that other amps did not have even though those amps were much bigger. I asked if I could try his amp with my DAP and my IEM with my Favorite tracks. Pow so much improvement. Sound stage wider bass deeper treble clearer. I was sold and I said I want it and I want it now. I offered to buy his IEM if I can also get that amp. He said this amp takes a long time to get maybe it will take 3 months so I said I will buy his used amp at retail cost. He agreed and I bought it and I love it. I believe it is the 5p model and it does everything I want from an amp and it improves all my IEMs such as; JH Audio 13,16, H8P, 846,IM70, UK10 and my Fav the Z5. I love it so much I ordered the new Arrow eventhough I have not demoed it and I read it might have a different sound signature.


----------



## ANDEROAN

ain't it though! yes it is just like that! a must have, oh so well worth any wait! I am so in love with my 5N!, I have the power board, but I just can't get over it ti try out the P board!
  
 welcome aboard JW55! Robert like I've said is truly an artist, and he puts out works of audio art! he packs alot into a tiny package and marries it all together, bringing audio bliss to my ears!


----------



## johnwamp55

Anderoan - I agree and I want another one.


----------



## flinkenick

anderoan said:


> ain't it though! yes it is just like that! a must have, oh so well worth any wait! I am so in love with my 5N!, I have the power board, but I just can't get over it ti try out the P board!
> 
> welcome aboard JW55! Robert like I've said is truly an artist, and he puts out works of audio art! he packs alot into a tiny package and marries it all together, bringing audio bliss to my ears!


 
 Hey Anderoan, so you currently are you using the 5N but have the P board separately? I don't think there's a difference in sound between them, the P board can just add extra bass so you shouldn't need to be hesitant to switch. The sound itself shouldn't change


----------



## XtianP

I have ordered an 5N in february, I have received an email from Robert that said he is improving the circuit to deliver in April a version 5NX. I have also received an information from Robert about the improvement of the output chip of the 5TX for a better soundstage.

I hope that he will be happy with the latest version. It's good to deliver a better amp but I also would like to receive one !


----------



## johnwamp55

xtianp said:


> I have ordered an 5N in february, I have received an email from Robert that said he is improving the circuit to deliver in April a version 5NX. I have also received an information from Robert about the improvement of the output chip of the 5TX for a better soundstage.
> 
> I hope that he will be happy with the latest version. It's good to deliver a better amp but I also would like to receive one !


 
 I have the 5n and Im waiting for that new model! I want both.


----------



## flinkenick

xtianp said:


> I have ordered an 5N in february, I have received an email from Robert that said he is improving the circuit to deliver in April a version 5NX. I have also received an information from Robert about the improvement of the output chip of the 5TX for a better soundstage.
> 
> I hope that he will be happy with the latest version. It's good to deliver a better amp but I also would like to receive one !


 
 Lol yeah ordered a 5TX in January, still waiting..
  
 A little bit off topic, are you happy with you AK100II? I'm considering either that (because it has balanced out), or a much cheaper X5/DX90.. Heard that the DX90 was better than the older AK's so I'm hesitant to spend so much..


----------



## Mmet

a funny thing about that thread ... REALLY funny !! ... is that it started from about 5 years now .... and it is only about 216 pages now ! .. though it is the most feature packed quality amp i've ever seen .... seems like people are just getting it ... enjoying it ... and just listening and listening ... no mush talk at all ... they are just enjoy it and when a newer version appear they upgrade to the newer one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  !!!


----------



## johnwamp55

mmet said:


> a funny thing about that thread ... REALLY funny !! ... is that it started from about 5 years now .... and it is only about 216 pages now ! .. though it is the most feature packed quality amp i've ever seen .... seems like people are just getting it ... enjoying it ... and just listening and listening ... no mush talk at all ... they are just enjoy it and when a newer version appear they upgrade to the newer one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 So true even though this amp cannot be bought in any audio store in the whole world,and most people want to go to a store and get what they want right now or get on the internet and receive it within a week people who heard it are waiting for it, waiting months for it.


----------



## Mmet

johnwamp55 said:


> So true even though this amp cannot be bought in any audio store in the whole world,and most people want to go to a store and get what they want right now or get on the internet and receive it within a week people who heard it are waiting for it, waiting months for it.


 
 the stuff that you wait months for it with your free will are rare ... i am waiting some money soon ... hope i got them as i am tempted to attach that amp to my new walkman


----------



## XtianP

flinkenick said:


> Lol yeah ordered a 5TX in January, still waiting..
> 
> A little bit off topic, are you happy with you AK100II? I'm considering either that (because it has balanced out), or a much cheaper X5/DX90.. Heard that the DX90 was better than the older AK's so I'm hesitant to spend so much..



 


I have the DX90, the AK sounds better (detailled) and have a nice UI than the DX90. But as you say is't cheaper.
I'm very happy with my gear AK (in line out mode) the arrow G2 and the HD800. I don't expect a big step in sound with my future 5NX but Robert ever surprise me.


----------



## flinkenick

Thanks man. Does balanced make a big difference? And more importantly, do you think its worth the extra cost compared to the DX90?


----------



## RASeymour

Just received update from Robert: 
  
 "Just a short update regarding the Arrow 5TX…
  
 As there was some delay with the aluminium front panels I decided to use the time to improve the amp. I wasn’t very happy with the solution I wanted to ship in February/March. Simply speaking I changed the output from AC- to DC-coupled (without output caps). This improves the soundage on very low impedance IEMs. I had to do some research as the power adaption works differently. So it came up to this 2 month delay. I apologize for letting you wait. I will receive the new circuit boards this week and then start the assembly…"


----------



## jk47

fyi, i wrote inquiring about different models of 5.  received a reply today:
  
_The 5NX will be neutral sounding with a different opamp inside the amp. The 5TX is a little warm sounding. But its still in development and will be released later._


----------



## proedros

has anyone upgraded from *4G* ? i am very happy with it , but also curious if the 5G is a step up
  
 i am not a basshead , i would like a transparent amp first and foremost
  
 thanx


----------



## whoever

have sent Robert an email, no answer….thats a good start haha….
  
 need to get rid of my Duo, just to thick for my pocket unfortunately….while this thing has an awesome sound….
 The only thing which would still go with my Alien is the Arrow but getting one seems to be so freaking hard


----------



## feverfive

^^ As a longtime Headstage customer, all I can say is, that is how things go w/ them, hahaha.  I have owned the 1G, 2G, 3G, and I have had the 4G for , what?, 18 months now, I think.  Quality product, not so great communication & delivery is at a snail's pace.  I don't even use my 4G anymore (it's sat in a box for the last 9 months for the most part), but it's nice knowing I have it on standby in case I need it.


----------



## Drsparis

^^ I second this and most will confirm. Amazing products, trust that you will get your product and it will meet or exceed your expectations. Don't expect prompt responses or deadlines. It's how it is but trust me its worth it


----------



## Rayzilla

feverfive said:


> ... I don't even use my 4G anymore (it's sat in a box for the last 9 months for the most part), but it's nice knowing I have it on standby in case I need it.




Is this because you don't use portable amping anymore or you switched to another.

I am waiting for a 5TX for portable and transportable use. I am anxious to give it a long listen with my HD-800.


----------



## proedros

rayzilla said:


> Is this because you don't use portable amping anymore or you switched to another.
> 
> I am waiting for a 5TX for portable and transportable use. I am anxious to give it a long listen with my HD-800.


 
*IEM: Looking for something similar to HD800 sound signature.*
  
 you should try AKG K3003


----------



## Rayzilla

proedros said:


> *IEM: Looking for something similar to HD800 sound signature.*
> 
> you should try AKG K3003



Thanks for the tip. I will report back when I get the chancemail, although I just picked up a pair of 535's recently. How would they compare?


----------



## proedros

rayzilla said:


> Thanks for the tip. I will report back when I get the chancemail, although I just picked up a pair of 535's recently. How would they compare?


 

  haven't tried the 535 but judging from what people say here they simply have lush mids and that's it (plus i find them overpriced at 400$)

 i have seen people in the K3 thread mentiong the K3 as an iem-like HD800 , but you wanna step over and ask some more info , don't just get my opinion
  
 btw , if you bought 535 for around 400$ just sell them and get a used K3 for an extra 300$
  
 cheers


----------



## Sound Eq

guys i just learned about head arrow 5tx
  
 how does it compare to alo mk3 
  
 does it drive audeze lcd2 with authority
 does it have a wide soundstage
 does give a good rich layered sound
 does it have more bass than alo mk 3


----------



## johnwamp55

sound eq said:


> guys i just learned about head arrow 5tx
> 
> how does it compare to alo mk3
> 
> ...


 
 Good questions but I dont have that model. The previous model I can say it can drive the LCD2 easily with a wide Sound Stage and with better Bass than the MK3.. The model you mentioned suppose to have a better Sound Stage then the model I have. If that is true then the new model will be more than amazing because the model I have is amazing.


----------



## flinkenick

I don't think the 5TX has ever been released. In december he offered he 5N, 5P and 5T. Later the 5TX replaced the 5T, but I've ordered it in January and have been waiting since. 
  
 So I'm pretty sure nobody has heard the 5TX


----------



## Sound Eq

so i do not get it, on headfonia site it says new orders will ship in april, does that mean if i order now i have to wait months before i get the 5tx


----------



## whoever

sound eq said:


> so i do not get it, on headfonia site it says new orders will ship in april, does that mean if i order now i have to wait months before i get the 5tx


 
 haha, yes…...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 sorry…..


----------



## flinkenick

Lol. Ships at the end of January became February, then March. I stopped looking after that


----------



## Sound Eq

whoever said:


> haha, yes…...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 that sucks really so i will not order then


----------



## flinkenick

Yeah but in all fairness they should be ready anytime now, can't imagine it taking more than a month from now


----------



## johnwamp55

sound eq said:


> so i do not get it, on headfonia site it says new orders will ship in april, does that mean if i order now i have to wait months before i get the 5tx


 
 Yes you Me he and it will have to wait. It seems thats how it has been with this little company. I believe it is one guy putting the units together and so there are no stores in this world that has one of these amps in stock. In fact due to the time it takes to get a unit no store can make a profit on it. The few who have one of these amps know that we have to wait and most of who have one will wait. To the ones the millions who dont have one most might just pick up another amp that are laying in a cabinet at any audio store and enjoy that one until they get an Arrow.


----------



## Sound Eq

i dont mind waiting but would u consider the tx5 better than centrance m8 and alo mk3


----------



## johnwamp55

sound eq said:


> i dont mind waiting but would u consider the tx5 better than centrance m8 and alo mk3


 
  
 I have not heard the up coming model but each new model ends up being an improvement over the previous model. I demoed a couple of times the M8 and I chose the Arrow for: Sound, Features (2 stageTreble boost , 2 stage Bass Boost, Control where the bass is boosted), size, Battery life, quality.


----------



## whoever

I don't care waiting neither, just lack of communication sucks sometimes


----------



## Sound Eq

thats it i am buying one now


----------



## johnwamp55

whoever said:


> I don't care waiting neither, just lack of communication sucks sometimes


 
 Agreed but it seems Robert (The guy who makes this amp)  also is the only one writing the emails. I sent emails and didnt hear from him for a week or two then he would write back and converse for a day then he will be gone. Would be great for all of us if he found some help.


----------



## flinkenick

Agreed, he's a nice guy when he replies for a while but that's only once every week. It's a high quality amp worth waiting for, but you can't count down the days waiting or you'll go crazy


----------



## Sound Eq

where is robert from, i mean where are they made in


----------



## whoever

He's German I think, but he moved to Hong Kong to produce them. Correct me if I'm wrong


----------



## zolom

I have the 5P for a while. Driving the Shure SE846, acting as DAC for my LG G3.
Truely the best I have owned. Worth the wait.


----------



## whoever

If anyone wants to sell me one 5whichever pm me


----------



## Sound Eq

does the 5tx play dsd

also is it more powerful than alo mk3


----------



## johnwamp55

whoever said:


> He's German I think, but he moved to Hong Kong to produce them. Correct me if I'm wrong


 
 I believe he deals with getting parts in South China and he assembles and ships all units in and from Germany. I am in Hong Kong and everybody here is emailing him and no stores here heard of him.


----------



## flinkenick

He lives closeby Hong Kong, he told me so himself


----------



## Sound Eq

what about the 5tx handling dsd


----------



## flinkenick

I dont think it can


----------



## Sound Eq

dam that sucks then
  
 does robert post on head-fi maybe someone can ask him


----------



## flinkenick

You can email him but dont expect an answer soon..


----------



## JDW

I emailed Robert at his head stage email address 6 days ago and he replied to me today. I asked him this:

How does the DAC in your Arrow 5TX compare with the M2TECH hiFace?

http://www.m2tech.biz/it/commerce/?mod=product&cat_id=1&product_id=56

Robert replied, "Sorry, I don't know."

But maybe some of you who own both could test and then tell us?


----------



## Sound Eq

did anyone at all get their 5tx, man i think robert needs to hire more people, as he seems like to disappear and no replies even on his own forum, man that sucks, as i think he has a great product but lack customer service


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

IT IS the standard service..


----------



## ANDEROAN

Yep S.O.P. standard opperating procedure/de ja vu when it comes to Headphonia deadlines,
  
 Robert is the best one man show on the planet! patience is a virtue that is its own reward, well that and the TX, lol, I am waiting to hear from him also, but have alot of gear to keep me busy in the mean time, I'm in no hurry
  
 I can guarantee the TX will well be worth any waiting, his revisions, and attention to utter detatil in the end only pays off for great product/piece of art! when he finally gets everything nailed down, it stays nailed down, Robert has never dissapointed me with his product, comes with the territory of doing it all by yourself,


----------



## Sound Eq

so how many of u here did order the tx, and when do u think at least he will deliver
  
 also from the specs do u think it will drive an audeze lcd2, the 5tx looks so small


----------



## flinkenick




----------



## johnwamp55

sound eq said:


> so how many of u here did order the tx, and when do u think at least he will deliver
> 
> also from the specs do u think it will drive an audeze lcd2, the 5tx looks so small


 

 I did and I know of 12 others.


----------



## zolom

I did order and receive the 5P, which is great. 
If Robert will stat showing signs of life, I will probabely order the 5TX as well (for my son).


----------



## Sound Eq

i do not know headstage i was just wondering how it compares to digizoid fs which in my opinion is the best eq amp ever for its price range, and i am even liking it more with my iems than using alo mk3 B which is way more expensive
  
 with digizoid i have total control of bass and treble


----------



## johnwamp55

sound eq said:


> i do not know headstage i was just wondering how it compares to digizoid fs which in my opinion is the best eq amp ever for its price range, and i am even liking it more with my iems than using alo mk3 B which is way more expensive
> 
> with digizoid i have total control of bass and treble


 

 Both are great amps but the new model while be special especially if you want power and a bigger Sound Stage. I like Digzoid but I havent had one for some years.


----------



## Sound Eq

johnwamp55 said:


> Both are great amps but the new model while be special especially if you want power and a bigger Sound Stage. I like Digzoid but I havent had one for some years.


 
 well the digizoid fs is completely different than the old versions by miles miles and miles, and its an eq at the same time
  
 as for power the digizoid volme goes to 210, and with my shure i listen at 132 can you imagine how much power for iem there is left
  
 to be honest before digizoid i used to hate my shure 846 now i am so so so so much in love with it, made me love my shure, believe me before the shure was the worst thing i bought but now with digizoid it turned the shure upside down for me from hatred to love, but i might only buy the roxanne just for the sake to see if its up to its hype, i know u say its not worth it, but something in me keeps telling to try it
 and of course your recommended z5 is on my list too
  
 but i am worried if i sell my shure i will regret it, but what can i do i need to try other things to know where i am in sq, but so far i have never even lsitened to music for more than 1 hour a day, now with the digizoid and shure i am listening for over 3 or 4 hours a day as i am listening to an sq that i am in total control of its bass and trebele and done in a professional way, not like in eqs of daps that suck big time
  
 also note that i have the alo mk3 b which is also now getting retired with my iems, now its only digizoid that rocks for me
  
 now i am selling my alo mk3 B, my ifi dsd, my audeze 'all not worth to keep anymore
  
 a simple dap like fiio and digizoid and great iem and i am done and this keeps me away from the gimmic eqs in daps that just drive me crazy to fix some imperfections in recordings that are mastered poorly


----------



## zolom

Digizoid fs is only an amp. No dac functionality. 
Headstage 5P, makes my shure se 846, stand out, with extremely punchy bass (at mid level of bass setting).


----------



## Sound Eq

zolom said:


> Digizoid fs is only an amp. No dac functionality.
> Headstage 5P, makes my shure se 846, stand out, with extremely punchy bass (at mid level of bass setting).


 
 thats why i use the line out from fiio x3 2nd gen which has a better dac than the arrow, and plays dsd even


----------



## johnwamp55

sound eq said:


> well the digizoid fs is completely different than the old versions by miles miles and miles, and its an eq at the same time
> 
> as for power the digizoid volme goes to 210, and with my shure i listen at 132 can you imagine how much power for iem there is left
> 
> ...


 

 Enjoy the journey.


----------



## Rayzilla

I just received my Arrow 5P. Oh boy, it adds some deep, lovely bass to the HD-800. To early to really say but it definitely adds some nice bass, not bloated. Perhaps it is the beauty of how well the HD-800 handles bass as well. It is often dumped on by people that don't give it enough time or don't connect it to the appropriate rig. 
  
 I've been trying out some bigger desktop amps recently and from my memory, it hits lower and with more ooomph with this little 5P. And this is with all of the settings on the bare minimum! I need more time to really say anything more. And I was told that the bass will be less punchy after it is burnt in. I hope not because I like it punchy like this.
  
 But can any of you help me since there is no owner's manual?
 1) What do the DAC settings mean? There is "O", "P" and "M".
 2) When connected to my computer with the USB cable provided, the power light stays RED when I set the DAC switch to "P". When it is set to "M", the power light blinks between RED and GREEN. What does that mean and what should I set the DAC switch to when connected to my computer?
 3) The Freq (I assume it is Frequency( switch has "L", "M" and "H", I assume for Low, Medium and High. I don't notice any change in the sound when I toggle between them. What do they each mean and what is the effect of each?
  
 Thanks


----------



## flinkenick

Hi,
  
 All answers can be found here, you can take a look although you've asked the most important ones:
http://www.headstage.com/Arrow-5TX/Headstage-Arrow-5TX::10144.html?XTCsid=8d861a883b633ce706a7685430b1323d
  
 But I won't be a dick and answer them.
  
 1) (P)c, (M)obile, (O)ff. This refers to whether the power comes from the PC, the Headstage itself or the dac is switched off to just charge
 2) It is either staying red because power is coming from the pc, and is charging when you put it on mobile; or as a warning that its not being charged because its still on mobile. Anyhow it doesn't matter, you should put it on P.
 3) That is for the magnitude of the bass. It adds quantity, but decreases the quality (it generally adds so much it becomes bloated, or in any case severely distorts the general sound). It only works for songs that have a (slow) bass in the center, with few other melodies/instruments which can be distorted (try "John Hopkins - Vessel" with max settings on both bass switches for kicks). If you put the bass on max (setting II), and then adjust the L,M,H, you'll hear a huge increase in bass


----------



## Rayzilla

flinkenick, thank you so much for being so nice to take your time and answer my questions personally. My wife just called me out and said that I need to go to sleep. It's 1:30am here now. I will read this in the morning. Thanks again!


----------



## flinkenick

No problem, glad to hear you're enjoying the 5p as well. More fun awaits when you play around with the bass settings


----------



## Sound Eq

and from can one buy headstage arrow 5p amp
  
 man i guess someone needs yo volunteer with robert and help him, as i am really liking the 5tx but he disappeared and does not answer anyone


----------



## Rayzilla

You can try the guys at Rhapsodio. http://www.rhapsodio.com/
  
 A friend of mine introduced me to these guys and they were really nice to deal with. They make all kinds of cables and some pretty nice IEMs. I am not an IEM guy but my friend is and he brought me there to try some. They had some IEMs that made my SE535 sound pretty bad and they were about half the price.
  
 Good luck with your search and purchase. I highly recommend this little amp and the guys at Rhapsodio.


----------



## RedJohn456

The 5tx is the latest model at the moment right? Has anything been announced about a more updated model coming out anytime soon? Thanks


----------



## flinkenick

The 5TX hasn't even come out yet..


----------



## RedJohn456

flinkenick said:


> The 5TX hasn't even come out yet..


 

 uhh what do you mean? Its already on the site right?  I was reading through the thread and thought someone said there is already a different model coming?


----------



## johnwamp55

redjohn456 said:


> uhh what do you mean? Its already on the site right?  I was reading through the thread and thought someone said there is already a different model coming?


 

 coming yes but has not arrived. Very soon it shall.


----------



## Daveed84

flinkenick said:


> You can email him but dont expect an answer soon..


 
  
 I've been trying to contact him via email for months now with basically no response. The quality of the amps is undeniable but you WILL be waiting a long, long time to get your hands on one.


----------



## johnwamp55

daveed84 said:


> I've been trying to contact him via email for months now with basically no response. The quality of the amps is undeniable but you WILL be waiting a long, long time to get your hands on one.


----------



## Sound Eq

no matter how good the amps are but he is really making a negative impression by his poor customer service
  
 people have emailed him for months without replies


----------



## ANDEROAN

daveed84 said:


> I've been trying to contact him via email for months now with basically no response. The quality of the amps is undeniable but you WILL be waiting a long, long time to get your hands on one.


 
  
 well waiting for a while yes/maybe, the waiting is about waiting on Robert to finish his masterpieces/little power house works of art! because when he is finished working out al the production/technical bugs/last minute improvements, then all will be business as usual,
  
 alot of the hangups happen in production, it's when he gets something back that isn't to spec/tollerence, its no small feat to pack ssoooo much into such a tiny (small on the outside and simply HUGE on the inside) enclosure, so everything has to be exact, or its a no go, henceforth the hold ups that he/we experience, he is a one man show and can only be in one place at a time, finding excellent manfacturers that can get the job done right is also a small miricle that he pulls off, most others would throw in the towel and called it quits and probably get a better paying job in the private sector, and I am sure he's had his fair share of, I can't belive you turned down that job offers? but he has the the awesome choice to do what he loves, and share it with us all, and I for one will attest to the fact that my audio therapy wouldn't be the same if it wasn't for what he does, and for that I say take all the time that you need Robert, because in the end we will all wait until the job your doing is done and done to a tee!
  
 Dr. Xin was making awesome amps a few years back I still would love to get my hands on some, unfortunately he took peoples money and ran/disapearded, only rumors of where he went to? last I heard he was spotted in Colorado getting high and snowboarding? lol on the snowboarding 420,
  
 I have yet to hear anything - about Robert not making good on his sales,  
  


sound eq said:


> no matter how good the amps are but he is really making a negative impression by his poor customer service
> 
> people have emailed him for months without replies


 
  
 what have you been trying to get a hold of him about,
  
 in my experience its been my general inquiries not getting responded to, and 1/2 the time he did, but when it came down to money being invloved he's responded, sometimes quicker sometime a little not so quick, a matter of a 2 week wait,
  
 so if he is busy with productio, and running around the world trying to get things worked out, the closer he gets to getting a new piece of art out to us the less time he has to respond, it seems that's been the case wuth the release of the 3g and 4g,


----------



## Rayzilla

I agree with many here. I am using the 5P with my HD-800 and tried it out with my Pro900. Added more than enough bass to the HD-800 without changing its quality. Widened the soundstage of the Pro900 and my SE535. 

I was a lot more of a bass head when I started into this hobby not too long ago. Having owned the HD 800 for at least a year now (not really sure?), I can't tolerate over emphasized and bloated bass anymore. I retried the TH900 last week, which was the HP I was initially so set on getting when I then ended up choosing the HD 800. I am so glad that I went with the HD 800. Anyway, I like how the Arrow works with the HD 800. I think the 5TX will be an even better pairing and more to my preferences.


----------



## RASeymour

FWIW (while we're all waiting on the new amp):
  
 Through nearly daily use for the last four (+?) years, I've never had the power run out in one of these amps. Never.  Can't say that about any other portable amps.


----------



## Sound Eq

i understand that there is waiting time
  
 but lack of communication from people who ordered the 5tx for over 7 months sounds a bit worrying to me
  
 there are posts on roberts forum, recently where they sent emails to robert for 7 months and no reply what so ever


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

That IS the Robert I/we know...


----------



## dragnet32

sound eq said:


> i understand that there is waiting time
> 
> but lack of communication from people who ordered the 5tx for over 7 months sounds a bit worrying to me
> 
> there are posts on roberts forum, recently where they sent emails to robert for 7 months and no reply what so ever


 
  
 hykhleif -
 Maybe the email from Robert from April 13, 2015 is on an earlier post - see below.  Robert was about ready to send the 5TX out but apparently found something was not right on the new circuit boards.  He is a perfectionist and I for one am happy with that.  I have the 5T and it is a wonderful amp.  I also have a 5TX on the way, as I upgraded from a 2G.  I also owned a 4G.  It took about 6 months to receive the 5T.  (June/Nov 2014).  Since I generally have two Arrow amps, sending in one for upgrade with a production delay is not a problem.  Pretty soon the 5TX will just show up in my mailbox.  Having dealt with Headstage since 2010, I am not concerned about receiving the amp, I just hope the problem he ran into can be fixed to his satisfaction.  He knows that sending out a sub standard amp creates an even bigger problem!
  
*From:* Headstage
*Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2015 7:25 AM
*To:* Headstage
*Subject:* Update Headstage Arrow 5TX


  
  Just a short update regarding the Arrow 5TX…
  
 As there was some delay with the aluminium front panels I decided to use the time to improve the amp. I wasn’t very happy with the solution I wanted to ship in February/March. Simply speaking I changed the output from AC- to DC-coupled (without output caps). This improves the soundage on very low impedance IEMs. I had to do some research as the power adaption works differently. So it came up to this 2 month delay. I apologize for letting you wait. I will receive the new circuit boards this week and then start the assembly…
  
 Cheers
 Robert


----------



## flinkenick

Release date for the 5TX is still mentioned as April. Maybe he's reffering to April 2016


----------



## bigbung

rayzilla said:


> I just received my Arrow 5P. Oh boy, it adds some deep, lovely bass to the HD-800. To early to really say but it definitely adds some nice bass, not bloated. Perhaps it is the beauty of how well the HD-800 handles bass as well. It is often dumped on by people that don't give it enough time or don't connect it to the appropriate rig.
> 
> I've been trying out some bigger desktop amps recently and from my memory, it hits lower and with more ooomph with this little 5P. And this is with all of the settings on the bare minimum! I need more time to really say anything more. And I was told that the bass will be less punchy after it is burnt in. I hope not because I like it punchy like this.
> 
> ...


 
 Agree with @flinkenick in his post, just wanted to add about no. 3 that the L, M, and H are meant to denote which frequencies get boosted with bass. L for lower frequencies only, M for medium bass frequencies and H for higher bass frequencies. Robert does not say the actual frequencies(Hz) boosted. Practically I don't notice much change with the setting on L but I love M as a perfect balance for just enough bass, I find H setting has too much bass probably because more frequencies are boosted and as flinkenick stated sometimes at the expense of the overall quality of the sound, especially with bass heavy songs. I keep mine at M almost always and occasionally on H, never on L. I have an arrow 5P running HD650 headphones and I LOVE IT.....!


----------



## flinkenick

Yes you're totally right forgot about that, was just describing as I heard it  On which setting do you keep the bass, if you have the setting on M? I always use the Headstage in combination with my Velvet for EDM or hip hop, so I usually have bass setting on II but the other setting on L. With M or H the bass already distorts the sound too much then. But maybe on setting I it would be better in combination with M I'll try it sometime.


----------



## Rayzilla

bigbung said:


> Agree with @flinkenick in his post, just wanted to add about no. 3 that the L, M, and H are meant to denote which frequencies get boosted with bass. L for lower frequencies only, M for medium bass frequencies and H for higher bass frequencies. Robert does not say the actual frequencies(Hz) boosted. Practically I don't notice much change with the setting on L but I love M as a perfect balance for just enough bass, I find H setting has too much bass probably because more frequencies are boosted and as flinkenick stated sometimes at the expense of the overall quality of the sound, especially with bass heavy songs. I keep mine at M almost always and occasionally on H, never on L. I have an arrow 5P running HD650 headphones and I LOVE IT.....!


 
 Thanks bigbung for the detailed response.
  


flinkenick said:


> Yes you're totally right forgot about that, was just describing as I heard it  On which setting do you keep the bass, if you have the setting on M? I always use the Headstage in combination with my Velvet for EDM or hip hop, so I usually have bass setting on II but the other setting on L. With M or H the bass already distorts the sound too much then. But maybe on setting I it would be better in combination with M I'll try it sometime.


 
 I have always had the Bass setting on I, and the Freq setting on M with all of my headphones, especially with the ATH-ES10, which I finally took out of storage after a long while. I forgot how good they can sound for certain genre but they are quite bass heavy. With the HD 800, I will try out the M and H settings too to see how it works out.


----------



## bigbung

flinkenick said:


> Yes you're totally right forgot about that, was just describing as I heard it  On which setting do you keep the bass, if you have the setting on M? I always use the Headstage in combination with my Velvet for EDM or hip hop, so I usually have bass setting on II but the other setting on L. With M or H the bass already distorts the sound too much then. But maybe on setting I it would be better in combination with M I'll try it sometime.


 

 with the hd650 I use bass level ll and M and occassionally H, I find level l has too little bass for them. For my other headphones ATH M50 and IEM RHA 750i I leave the bass at level l and M because they generally both have good bass.


----------



## flinkenick

I've been playing around a bit, and I think I prefer bass setting on I, with freq M. It gives kind of a similar bang as bass setting II with freg L, but without distorting the sound as much (on the Velvet). Bass setting II with freq M usually distorts too much, but that's because the Velvet has pretty good bass as is.


----------



## nkoulban

I ordered mine in May 2014! I was told back in March that is have my 5TX in April. I'm still waiting and my emails have not been replied to. I have had enough and have asked for a refund. Never again Robert!


----------



## Sound Eq

nkoulban said:


> I ordered mine in May 2014! I was told back in March that is have my 5TX in April. I'm still waiting and my emails have not been replied to. I have had enough and have asked for a refund. Never again Robert!


 
 thats not acceptable on all acoounts


----------



## flinkenick

nkoulban said:


> I ordered mine in May 2014! I was told back in March that is have my 5TX in April. I'm still waiting and my emails have not been replied to. I have had enough and have asked for a refund. Never again Robert!


 
 Just out of curiosity which one did you order in May 2014? The 5TX wasn't available then(?)


----------



## Drsparis

sound eq said:


> thats not acceptable on all acoounts


 
  


nkoulban said:


> I ordered mine in May 2014! I was told back in March that is have my 5TX in April. I'm still waiting and my emails have not been replied to. I have had enough and have asked for a refund. Never again Robert!


 
 Sadly this is what ordering from Robert is. I, and most who have dealt with him before, know/knew this when purchasing and I am not surprised at all that it is taking this time. Trust me, it will be worth it. have a little faith


----------



## johnwamp55

Just wait another half year but seriously just wait another half year and you will be happy. Happy after 6 months of unhappiness.


----------



## heart banger-97

After a while, I'm coming back to this thread and seeing same old complains 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I have been waiting for around 14 months (yes 14) for my 4g. No email, No nothing.


----------



## Drsparis

Chances are you will get the latest revision with the rest of us hehe


----------



## zolom

I will wait for the 5TX to begin shipping, then I will place an order. Currently enjoying the 5P (which will go to my son) very much


----------



## flinkenick

Lucky son, that's a nice gift


----------



## johnwamp55

10 year old son.


----------



## zolom

How about 27 years old son?


----------



## zolom

How about 27 years old son? 

BTW the 5P is one of the best Amp/Dac I ever had, and I had a few. (Fiio, Ray Samuels, HRT)


----------



## Mmet

zolom said:


> How about 27 years old son?
> 
> BTW the 5P is one of the best Amp/Dac I ever had, and I had a few. (Fiio, Ray Samuels, HRT)


 

 better than Ray Samuels ?


----------



## johnwamp55

I had the Shadow and the Hornet and I demoed I demoed a few other models and the Arrow 5P sounds better last over 20 hrs and is smaller along with more controls such as: Bass Boost, treble Boost and where the bass hits. But the good thing about Rays amps is I can go to the stores and buy one right away.


----------



## zolom

I currenly have the RSA Shadow and the HRT dsp. The 5P is very close to the Shadow when it comes to SQ and stage and it has those bass and treble controls. The Shadow battery lasts longer. The HRT dsp is far behind those two.


----------



## Sound Eq

i was wondering as just an amp how would the alo mk3 B compare to headstage arrow amps


----------



## wjblaney

I bought the Arrow g4 a couple or three years ago without much hassle at all. In fact, the original was giving me some trouble and Robert sent a replacement, no charge, real quick. All I had to do was send back the original after receiving the replacement, which I am still enjoying to the max. Then Jan. 2015 he offered me the 5tx for $249 in exchange for my 4g. He was real quick with his replies (4 total) before I made payment. I made my payment via PayPal April 17 and received a confirmation email from Robert saying it would ship in May. I've since sent him 4 queries (the last being today) and haven't received a single reply back. Anybody hear back from him personally about the missed shipment date?


----------



## flinkenick

Nope, pretty much the same. Last 4 unreplied. If I didn't know this was standard procedure I'd suggest someone to go over and check if he's still alive


----------



## sargaso

A month ago (May 28) I received an email from Robert confirming payment and this statement concerning the 5TX:
 " I am just testing the circuit boards. So they will ship soon…"
Hopefully he hasn't run into too much trouble testing and will soon be finished.


----------



## lazard

any updates regarding the 5TX?


----------



## wjblaney

none I've heard about. I made my payment back toward the end of April and he told me then the shipping date would be in May. Since then, he hasn't bothered to reply to my emails, let alone deliver the product. Luckily, I'm still getting great performance from my 4g. If/when I get the 5tx, I'm going to do a fair amount of comparison testing before sending the 4g back to him. My question is, is he even taking orders at the moment? Maybe he's absconded. Might be interesting to go online and see if you can place an order with a human being. Might learn something.


----------



## lazard

I'm assuming he's taking orders since you can place an order on his site.  I'm interested in purchasing the 5TX but will hold off on placing an order until people who pre-ordered on here start receiving theirs.  The communications silence people have been reporting on here are quite concerning though.


----------



## wjblaney

I made my payment using cash in my PayPal account. Therefore, I was just able to start the resolution process by having PayPay contact Robert on my behalf and deliver my complaint to him. This is not an actual claim yet but the case will automatically close on Aug. 1, unless it's resolved before then or I escalate it into a claim. One other note for those who made their payments on Paypal: you have 180 days from date of purchase to open a case against the seller,


----------



## Drsparis

wjblaney said:


> you have 180 days from date of purchase to open a case against the seller,


 
 Well that is long past haha. Seriously guys it is worth the wait!!! just hang on!


----------



## midnightwalker

drsparis said:


> Well that is long past haha. Seriously guys it is worth the wait!!! just hang on!


 
  
 Seriously, i know Arrow is a good amp but Rob needs to learn how to do business professionally especially in customer service and commit to deadline. It is CRUCIAL to success in any industry. Although I really love the Arrow, I will not support to that unprofessional manner.


----------



## Sound Eq

i think Robert would win the Guinness record in worst customer service


----------



## ANDEROAN

midnightwalker said:


> Seriously, i know Arrow is a good amp but Rob needs to learn how to do business professionally especially in customer service and commit to deadline. It is CRUCIAL to success in any industry. Although I really love the Arrow, I will not support to that unprofessional manner.


 
  
 the down side to meeting deadlines with his one man show, and dedication to perfection, would be recalls? or worse yet, nothing blank void, devoid,
  
 he knows what he's doing, and how he has to go about doing it, and what it will take to get it done, like I said he's a one man show! for what he's put out, only the best little amp this side of the milkey way!
  
 as far as I'm concerned he can take all the time he needs, better that then him closing up shop because he can't meet our expectations of professional businessism?
  
 bad Robert, you stop what your doing and get with our program, naughty, to the corner, quit your daydreaming of changing the world thru what is it that you call it? an amp what lifier? I never heard of such a thing, it can't be done, now go to dental school and get in line with the rest of us muggles, pay your taxes, and be a good little boy, and???
  
 holy crap I can't imagine a world without my Headstage Arrow? eeeck, yicks, gleeerk, could you? my comute to and from work would be a dull grey, montone, thank god Robert colors outside the lines, and does what he does, I am grateful for what little I have, and what Robert has added to it!
  
 anyway Robert take your time and keep up your great work! I believe in you, we will all be hear when you are ready reveal your work of creation!
  
 cheers!


----------



## flinkenick

Yes but the main problem is not so much about missing deadlines and having people wait for really, really long times. Its about not communicating at all, which leads to an annoying uncertainty. If you've taken orders, you kind of owe it to people to keep them updated. Replying to every email might be a lot of work but seriously sending a mass email or posting an update on the site once a month isn't an unbearable amount of work, even if its a one man company. It's literally one hour work, which happens to make a significant difference in people's expectations.


----------



## Sound Eq

totally agree, people who are defending robert slack in replying to emails and concerns are not doing him any good at all 
  
 such a shame he produces great products but has the worst customer service ever, never ever would i do business with such a person  again 
  
 man he is making me angry and testing my patience,


----------



## wjblaney

Right. i posted an inference to what you should be able to do _now_ about it but just to make it clear: Robert wants everybody to pay him via PaPpal. That obligates him per their rules. If he fails to deliver, you should get your money back through PayPal's problem resolution process. The only semi-condition I found online was that you should open a problem resolution case within 180 days of the purchase (I opened one up a couple of days ago). If it has been longer than that, I would advise you to still open a case against him. At the very least, the first step provides another communication avenue whereby you state your grievance and PayPay delivers the message to him for you. 
  
 P.S. That Robert uses PayPal _does_ say something about his honesty. So if you have no qualms about that, then, fcuk it, wait it out. My Arrow 4g gives me all the patience I need.


----------



## Sound Eq

it  would take 10 seconds to write an update on his site that he still is working on his device and also at least we know he is till alive, maybe he is ill or deceased or in prison, we need to know what is going on with him


----------



## lazard

Agreed.  His site still says New Orders Will Ship In April...unless he means April 2016.


----------



## wjblaney

I don't make excuses for anybody. However consider that the process for my 4g (2 years ago about) was a much more efficient process, maybe with a slight delay in delivery plus a couple of unanswered emails. But when I discovered a flaw (and on second thought, it may only have been my inexperience with any kind of amp and the lack of thorough users' manual), Robert not only responded immediately, he immediately replaced it at no cost with my only obligation to return the original _after_ I had received and was satisfied with the replacement, which arrived within a couple of weeks. BTW, I had a buyer for the original, if I had wanted to be that way. So, it's not all about business, it is also about people and because of that first experience, Robert holds my respect as a good man, although maybe not the greatest PR manager...


----------



## flinkenick

Yes I can also concur Robert is a standup guy. Robert was generous enough to loan me a 5P in the meanwhile, so I hardly have the right to complain. Most of the time I forget I've ordered a 5TX until someone posts here


----------



## borrego

When I bought my Arrow 4G two years ago (upgrade from 1G), Robert actually offered meeting me face to face to deliver the 4G to me during his trip to Hong Kong! Unfortunately I missed his email and so the 4G was mailed to me instead.
  
 I suppose if Robert wants to hide away from customer, he won't bother to meet his customer face to face.


----------



## proedros

this is simply a lesson in patience , guys - a zen exercise that comes in with buying this great amp

 see this as like trying to get a beautiful woman to sleep with you - the moment you get in bed with her you forget all the waiting and the cursing  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 i still have my 4G though so i don't feel like i can wait another 3-6 months for 5TX , no matter how good the sonic sex with it might be
  
 patience guys , patience


----------



## MrBackup

We know something of the DAC which will include this new Arrow?


----------



## midnightwalker

anderoan said:


> the down side to meeting deadlines with his one man show, and dedication to perfection, would be recalls? or worse yet, nothing blank void, devoid,
> 
> he knows what he's doing, and how he has to go about doing it, and what it will take to get it done, like I said he's a one man show! for what he's put out, only the best little amp this side of the milkey way!
> 
> ...


 
  
 One cannot play one-man-show when he is running business. If the demand is much higher than supply, he should think about expansion. If you do not want to expand your business, keep it low, do not take more orders and try to deliver the current batch before accepting more orders.
  
 Don't get me wrong that i am hater but instead, I am one of his loyalty customers. I discussed with Rob regularly in the past. The reason I want to point out this issue is that I want him to admit the fact and find a way to solve it. There are so many companies in the market. His company will not survive unless he changes the customer service.


----------



## ANDEROAN

wow sounds like your knowing Robert in a more personal way, and are genuinely concerned for him, and his future,
  
 I am just blindly and enthusiastically trying to support his artist and creative guiness, which is sublime!
  
 but seeing it from your side, and puting my silly/sapiness aside, you do have huge valid point from the business aspect of his life, which he just needs to balance out more to keep in compation with the broadening audio market,
  
 even though as it stands nobody has anything on Roberts Headstage! it doesn't guarantee his foothold out here, there will forever be us diehard Robert enthusiasts, but will he beable to make a living off of us as it stands, not unless he starts to charge $$$ for his totally awesome work?
  
 how does he balance his creative genius with fincial savey, without finding any breaking points? hopefully Robert never has to discover any of that, and I don't think he will, it would be a super sad day indeed to see him disapear from the market,
  
 it's all about the basics/fundamentals in life, and I would rather be luck then good, I guess time wil tell,


----------



## wjblaney

I know this may make me sound like a diehard but I did open up a paypal resolution case against Robert. Anyway, aside from this topic re: business planning and product delivery, I'm curious about the design of the 5tx. For example, there's only one headphone jack, whereas the 4g had two. (two allows two people to connect to the amp). I know it's a ridiculous question and don't expect a reply but I was just wondering if any of you sound techies out there have given any thought to the design of the 5tx, as far as it's been made available.


----------



## johnwamp55

The previous models only had one HP jack (previous two).


----------



## flinkenick

The newer models have 2 inputs (don't know about the older ones), maybe he changed 2 headphone outs to 2 inputs? Would have preferred 2 headphone outs myself


----------



## wjblaney

Yeah, the 4g has two input jacks also, one on either side: makes it more convenient, depending on how you've set you your audio device. I always use the input jack on the opposite side of the output jacks but I can see where you might want to connect on the same side. I hope he's kept that configuration the same.
  
 BTW, my Marshall Monitor Headphones (there's another thread on the topic: http://www.head-fi.org/t/662178/marshalls-new-cans-the-monitor-headphones) have two input jacks also. You can connect the headphone cord to either left or right side. Then you can connect someone else's headphone's into the other side. Solves the 5tx problem.
  
 OK, so I told you guys: open a Paypal case, if you want to hear back from Robert, which I just did. Here's his email:
  
Hello,
 
I am assembling the new 5TX amps now. I’m sorry that it took longer again than promised. Too many little problems came up that had to be solved.
 
Now I have two versions: the standard 5TX with normal bass boost and the 5TX with enhanced (punchy) bass boost. Which version do you prefer? The price is the same. (It is possible to swap the internal sound board but it will cost extra of course.)
 
Kind regards
Robert
 
Did he send out a mass emailing?


----------



## Mmet

wjblaney said:


> Yeah, the 4g has two input jacks also, one on either side: makes it more convenient, depending on how you've set you your audio device. I always use the input jack on the opposite side of the output jacks but I can see where you might want to connect on the same side. I hope he's kept that configuration the same.
> 
> BTW, my Marshall Monitor Headphones (there's another thread on the topic: http://www.head-fi.org/t/662178/marshalls-new-cans-the-monitor-headphones) have two input jacks also. You can connect the headphone cord to either left or right side. Then you can connect someone else's headphone's into the other side. Solves the 5tx problem.
> 
> ...


 

 so after all .. he is alive !!


----------



## sargaso

Must have been a mass mailing, I received the same email also.


----------



## flinkenick

And just at the right time, with all this mutiny about to happen


----------



## ANDEROAN

SOP, standard opperating procedure with Robert, and as usuall it will definately and most assuredly is going to be worth the wait,
  
 he is an artist, a creative genius, and when he has to solves his delays, it is always for the better, just like me when I have to fix problems, I am always learning a better way to go about doing them in the end, it sucks but I wind up getting lemonade from my lemons, Robert gets fine champange from his delays/sour grapes, lol,
  
 the 5G that I use for my ultra portable rig is simply a work of wonder! almost as good as/rivals my larger portable rig, the CLAS-R>Rx combo,
  
 Thanks Robert!


----------



## flinkenick

I set my max waiting time on 1 year, so I guess he's 5 months ahead of schedule for me


----------



## wjblaney

Hi,
  
 I received a personal response to another email I sent to Robert re: the reason for the single headphone jack on the 5TX. He offered to remove the input jack next to the volume control and replace it with a headphone jack...for an additional $50. So you can have 2 input jacks and one headphone jack (the standard model) or vice versa for an additional $50. Not worth it for me. So sorry but you can't have 2 input jacks plus 2 headphone jacks.
  
 Anybody opting for the punchy 5TX (for bass heads)?


----------



## johnwamp55

I want bass.


----------



## flinkenick

I asked Robert a couple of months ago if it wasn't possible to have the extra bass of the 5P with the 5TX. Strange that's he asking 50 euro for the 2nd headphone jack, but the bass boost upgrade is free. I would have paid 50 euro for that, you're basically getting the 5P and 5TX in one


----------



## RedJohn456

wjblaney said:


> Hi,
> 
> I received a personal response to another email I sent to Robert re: the reason for the single headphone jack on the 5TX. He offered to remove the input jack next to the volume control and replace it with a headphone jack...for an additional $50. So you can have 2 input jacks and one headphone jack (the standard model) or vice versa for an additional $50. Not worth it for me. So sorry but you can't have 2 input jacks plus 2 headphone jacks.
> 
> Anybody opting for the punchy 5TX (for bass heads)?


 
  
  
 Would you be able to check if he can do balanced? with two 3.5 mm ports? And the extra bass is an option as in a switch or like a permanent tweak to the sound?


----------



## RedJohn456

flinkenick said:


> I asked Robert a couple of months ago if it wasn't possible to have the extra bass of the 5P with the 5TX. Strange that's he asking 50 euro for the 2nd headphone jack, but the bass boost upgrade is free. I would have paid 50 euro for that, you're basically getting the 5P and 5TX in one


 
  
 Is that a permanent sound tweak or like a switch option? I notice that you have the R2A as well. Do you think the 5TX would be good for it?


----------



## johnwamp55

Can not go wrong with the Arrow but you got to wait awhile.


----------



## flinkenick

redjohn456 said:


> Is that a permanent sound tweak or like a switch option? I notice that you have the R2A as well. Do you think the 5TX would be good for it?




Its a switch, the normal version will have a +0/+6/+9db switch, the enhanced will have +0/+9/+18db.

I've been on vacation the last two weeks, I'll hear the Flare when I get back in two days but from what I've heard its very source dependent. Which source are you using?


----------



## phonomat

So, if he finished a batch right now, would there be a chance to reveive one right away if you ordered now? I guess not, seems too good to be true.
Does anyone know how many units are in a batch? Just how backordered is he usually?


----------



## flinkenick

I know we're all excited after getting the email, but I still have to wait and see if a batch will be ready within a short time. The ones that ordered months ago also got a very similar mail in April or so, that he had to fix something but was ready to ship in two weeks. And complete radio silence after that for months..


----------



## phonomat

Okay, I might reach out to him to ask. Any more comparisons to the Zo FS? They're both interesting, but I think I might like the finer bass tuning of the Zo. On the other hand the Arrow has this bass freq thing going. Hm ...


----------



## phonomat

Also, does anyone know if the Arrow holds his own against the VorzAmp Pure/Duo? I'd be grateful for any comparisons.
 Thanks!


----------



## johnwamp55

I had both now I only have two Arrows abd I am waiting for the new model.


----------



## ANDEROAN

phonomat said:


> Okay, I might reach out to him to ask. Any more comparisons to the Zo FS? They're both interesting, but I think I might like the finer bass tuning of the Zo. On the other hand the Arrow has this bass freq thing going. Hm ...


 
  
 skip the ZO FS? theyhavefailedtheauiophilecommunity!!!!!!! well they have, I still have and still use the original ALMIGHTY and ALL POWERFUL ZO!!!! and tremble with fear because of it! lol,
  
 well you should without a doubt as stand alone get the Arrow, there is no real comaprison.......the Arrow hands down carries the music away into another completely higher dimesion then the FS does with its bass and treble controls could ever do, and I am uber sorry to have to say any of that, because I am a diehard ZO fanatic! 
  
 now the plus side of the FS besides the + on the FS+, is that you can add the FS to any rig following any amp, and then fine tune the bass or treble that the other amp can't reach/manage/or achieve on its own, because technically the ZO/FS is not an amp, its based on SVT smart vector technology, which really only contours the music, and so it isn't double amping the signal, which is what I do with my ZO, and will experiment with my FS+, as I have recently gotten it back from Digizoid, my set up/rig at current is, iPod>CLAS-R>Rx>ZO/FS+>ASGs!!!!!!
  


phonomat said:


> Also, does anyone know if the Arrow holds his own against the VorzAmp Pure/Duo? I'd be grateful for any comparisons.
> Thanks!


 
  
 ... will have get back to you on that, I was just going to flat out say yes, but I haven't listened to them all in the same way, I have all 3 of them, I listened to the P/D along with the CLAS-R, and the Arrow as a stand alone, so my impressions wouldn't be fair/accurate/or even,
  
 using the Arrow along with the CLAS-R didn't help it, it sounds GREAT just as it is!.......
  


johnwamp55 said:


> I had both now I only have two Arrows abd I am waiting for the new model.


 
  
  
 ...I agree 1000%


----------



## wjblaney

phonomat said:


> Okay, I might reach out to him to ask. Any more comparisons to the Zo FS? They're both interesting, but I think I might like the finer bass tuning of the Zo. On the other hand the Arrow has this bass freq thing going. Hm ...


 
  
 Are you talking about the 5TX with the normal bass boost or the enhanced bass boost 5TX (same price)? I asked Robert what the difference was and he called the enhanced bass boost "punchy" and for bass heads? I listen to all kinds of music. what's a bass head listen to?


----------



## phonomat

I think I would like to ask him for the "enhanced" bass boost. What I find interesting is the option to address the bass in different ranges, so you can modify midbass independent of subbass, for example.
  
 I don't know if there is a clear-cut definition of "basshead", despite of there being a lot of threads on the subject (try the search function, you'll be surprised). I think a "basshead" could listen to all kinds of music, theoretically, and just like them presented with emphasized bass. But in reality, you would probably find the most bassheads among listeners of Rap/HipHop and Electronic Dance Music with all of its diverse subgenres.


----------



## wjblaney

Thanks. Yeah, I'm definitely a guitar and drums head, when it comes to trad rock and roll. I also like EDM and electronica lot but I don't think deep or enhanced bass is inherently a prerequisite to liking it. But I wonder what Robert's trade-off is. I think that since it's the same price as the standard 5TX then the enhanced bass version must lack something the standard version has or he wouldn't offer a standard model.


----------



## johnwamp55




----------



## phonomat

wjblaney said:


> I think that since it's the same price as the standard 5TX then the enhanced bass version must lack something the standard version has or he wouldn't offer a standard model.


 
 Not necessarily, could just be a matter of him accommodating user's individual preferences. (Let's hope so.)


----------



## johnwamp55

Both will have a bass boost just the standard will boost the bass not as intense.


----------



## phonomat

anderoan said:


> I have all 3 of them


 
 Looks like you are my man! More detailed impressions would be veeery welcome. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


johnwamp55 said:


>


 
 Wowza! So, what exactly are we seeing here?


----------



## johnwamp55

phonomat said:


> Looks like you are my man! More detailed impressions would be veeery welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well all are the sme model the 5N, It does everything well and I hardly ever charge it eventhough I use it 6 days a week.


----------



## wjblaney

johnwamp55 said:


> Both will have a bass boost just the standard will boost the bass not as intense.


 
  
 Yeah, of course, how stupid I am. I just looked at my 4g: gain, bass, treble, cross. What is cross?


----------



## johnwamp55

Cross - all the way to the left bass boost pushes the sub bass. Middle the boost pushes the mid bass.


----------



## travelfotografe

Cross - crossfeed circuit (off, low, high).

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## wjblaney

travelfotografe said:


> Cross - crossfeed circuit (off, low, high).
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


 
  
 Found this definition in another thread--http://www.head-fi.org/t/233288/what-is-crossfeed#post_2865141


> Crossfeed is when you hear the music in a less stereo and more mono way.
> Some people think that headphones seperate the stereo too much so a crossfeed mechanism can make the stereo seperation less obvious and more nataural as if you are listening in front of speakers.


 
  
  Do you like it? Thanks.


----------



## wjblaney

I mentioned earlier that I started a dispute with Robert via Paypal's resolution center b/c you only have 180 days to open one, from the date of payment. They tried to communicate with Robert but he didn't respond. Paypal's rules are they will close the dispute automatically after 30 days, if it's still unresolved, unless you escalate it to a claim. Once a dispute is closed it cannot be reopened. My initial 30 days ended on 8/31 so I escalated it to a claim. Also, you can close a claim any time you want so I thought "no worries". But Robert immediately refunded my money. I mean yesterday. No emails, no communication with Paypal: just a full refund.


----------



## JamesBr

johnwamp55 said:


>


 
 Looks like someone is showing off


----------



## lithrai

I should have my Arrow 5TX next week. But I will probably put it on sale immediately if anyone is interested. It's Normal Bass Boost version.


----------



## phonomat

How come?


----------



## flinkenick

lithrai said:


> I should have my Arrow 5TX next week. But I will probably put it on sale immediately if anyone is interested. It's Normal Bass Boost version.


 
 Robert mailed that you were getting yours next week?? When did you order it?


----------



## lithrai

Yeah, I've got mail from Rob. He'll ship it next week via DHL.


----------



## Sound Eq

so the one that has extra bass punch is now interesting to me but i am concerned if it will be too much bass and that it will be bloated


----------



## RedJohn456

lithrai said:


> Yeah, I've got mail from Rob. He'll ship it next week via DHL.


 

 where would you be shipping from when selling? are you in canada by any chance?


----------



## johnwamp55

The extra bass unit will have 2 bass boost settings plus you can focus the boost either only in the SUB bass or Mid Bass or full bass.


----------



## wjblaney

And why do you think you'll get it next week? When did you pay for it?


----------



## flinkenick

lithrai said:


> Yeah, I've got mail from Rob. He'll ship it next week via DHL.


 
 So did he ship it


----------



## lithrai

He did, but according to tracking number, it's still in Hong Kong.


----------



## flinkenick

Oh ok. It looks like you're going to be the first one to be able to share  your impressions  
  
 Also still wondering when you ordered it?  Did he just randomly email you and say it was finished or did you contact him or did you just buy it via the website?


----------



## lithrai

I ordered mine back in March. But I opened dispute and then escalated to a claim on PayPal...


----------



## flinkenick

Ah ok that makes sense. And he resolved the claim? He just paid wjblaney back immediately I think


----------



## wjblaney

flinkenick said:


> Oh ok. It looks like you're going to be the first one to be able to share  your impressions
> 
> Also still wondering when you ordered it?  Did he just randomly email you and say it was finished or did you contact him or did you just buy it via the website?


 
  
 Good question. I got a special email, having purchased the 4G a couple years back. So ordered the 5TX in April, opened a paypay dispute a month ago, no response in 30 days so had to escalate to claim. Got an immediate refund along with the comment "sorry. not such a fast guy". Sent him another email asking if I could reorder. He said no problem. Paid again on paypal last week..ha ha (oh no, he didn't respond to the new order. I made it on paypay--headphonia--not on the web site.)
  


lithrai said:


> I ordered mine back in March. But I opened dispute and then escalated to a claim on PayPal...


 
  
 And what happened with your dispute?


----------



## lithrai

Well, I opened dispute and Rob sent mail the same day. That he has now two versions of 5TX. Normal Bass Boost and Enchanced. So he asked me which one I prefer. But then again not a single word in three weeks. So I escalated dispute to a claim. And he sent mail same day, he'll ship my Arrow 5TX next week...


----------



## Sound Eq

do u think guys, the headstage arrow 5tx can drive audeze lcd2 with authority
  
 also i would like to ask which have more bass impact headstage arrow amps or alo mk3


----------



## Mmet

has any body tried JDS labs C5 vs. the arrow head ? ... in terms of sound quality , power and bass only ... because i know that the C5 lack the other arrow's features !


----------



## johnwamp55

C5 is an ok amp but the Arrow is way better.


----------



## zolom

As far as I can see, 5TX are shipping .
Waiting for a review on the 5TX with the enhanced Bass, before submitting an order. 

BTW, allready got the 5P which is superb. 
Thanks


----------



## johnwamp55

I love the 5P.


----------



## flinkenick

As far as I can see the 5TX isn't shipping.. He told one person he was shipping after a paypal claim, the rest hasn't heard anything.


----------



## wjblaney

This is just hilarious. As I mentioned in post #3387, Robert refunded my April paypay purchase last week and said "Sorry. I am not so fast!". So I asked him if I could reorder it at the same price. "OK". Another payment made to PayPal. Now, I will wait until day 179 before opening my next dispute.


----------



## fizzytao

I was struggling between getting a JDS Labs C5 and the Vantam RedShoulder from Japan but after all these reviews read here, I place the order today for a Arrow 5TX!  I indeed place the bet on the SQ of the 5TX and Robert is going to ship in September as he states on his web page 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I will pair the 5TX with Sony XBA-A2 and A3.  Guess that the bass/treble enhancement will be a great options for these two different phones


----------



## johnwamp55

Wow an update on his website! It went from April to September.


----------



## flinkenick

Does it say September 2015? If not it might be next year September


----------



## fizzytao

flinkenick said:


> Does it say September 2015? If not it might be next year September


 
  
 Could be.  Nothing is impossible.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But I wish Robert has just finished his work on the 5TX in China and is stopping by Hong Kong now.  He can then send me via local courier and I get it on this Friday!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Hey, it DID happen with a buyer here before!  Robert sent from Hong Kong to Hong Kong.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I hope I will be another lucky guy!


----------



## wjblaney

I got my 4G incredibly fast, really, although I do know there were delivery complaints here. Then it went kinda bonkers. To this day I'm not sure if it was just my imagination due to my inexperience with amps in general or a real problem. In any case, Robert replaced it immediately. I mean fast. And didn't ask for anything other than to return the original amp to him _after_ I received the replacement.
  
 (I'm sure this is the first time I've mentioned this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## johnwamp55

I wonder if one wants the previous models would Robert send those quicker?


----------



## flinkenick

I think he has a few of those lying around, best to contact him and ask of course


----------



## whoever

I'll have my 5TX in a couple of hours, it's waiting for me at home after delivery while absent....
Quite excited as one say!


----------



## Sound Eq

whoever said:


> I'll have my 5TX in a couple of hours, it's waiting for me at home after delivery while absent....
> Quite excited as one say!


 
 lucky u please give us ur first impressions, with which iems or heapdhones do u plan to pair it with.
  
 please after you listen to it for few hours please just give us at least an initial impression
  
 - how do u find the bass
 - is it warm or analytical
 - how is the soundstage
  
 thanks so much in advance


----------



## whoever

will do  



Pairing will be with the only Ciem I have, Custom Art H8 Harmony coupled to a AK120


----------



## Sound Eq

whoever said:


> will do
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


looking so forward to ur first hour impressions, even if u write just few words it will be enough for all of us to get an idea


----------



## whoever

That's the best in this world of fora...you feel so desired !


----------



## whoever

A little teaser......


----------



## Sound Eq

whoever said:


> A little teaser......


 
  


whoever said:


> A little teaser......


 
 lucky you, on another note how is the sound in general, also from where did u buy this tiny 3.5mm-3.5mm cable


----------



## flinkenick

comes with the amp


----------



## Sound Eq

great to know that this tiny cable comes with amp, now i ll wait to hear some feedback bout the 5tx


----------



## RedJohn456

I was really hoping to get this amp before the canadian dollar went to ****. Works out to almost 530 CAD. But am still excited to read about impressions


----------



## whoever

what can i say….it's almost nonsense to give impressions so fast but heck, let's go
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've been listening to the last Bjork Album for an hour now, and the only thing i know is, this is what my Harmony 8 needed to reveal their real power: I had the Vorzüge Duo a couple of months ago, a great amo, but not thin anough to be truly portable. 
  
 This is it's better version, portable wise.
  
 I have the Enhanced bass version, and believe me, if you like bass, you'll be served. But it's not only this…the treble switch comes in very handy and give's the general signature a balance which is, which i was looking for i think. I still have to figure out the different bass frequency ranges, i hear the differences clearly but can't really put a word on it. 
  
 Prefered setup right now: Gain 1, treble 2, bass 1, low frequency….
  
 The volume control is brilliant and smooth, you won't burn up your ears when turning the wheel (actually "pushing" it would be a better word)
  
  
  
  
  
  
 in one word: if you find the right setting, it's f@@g awesome….and the magic is, *there are enough of options to adapt to each ones taste*….
  
 jésus it's tasty….a very very very textured and well controled bass…unbelivable


----------



## Sound Eq

whoever said:


> what can i say….it's almost nonsense to give impressions so fast but heck, let's go
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 just one question is the the sound layered and how is the soundstage, and is there any harshness you detect
  
 did u ever own an alo rx mk3 would like to hear how it compares to it


----------



## whoever

no harshness for sure, soundstage i have to check again, but it seems quite open with the right settings. Personnaly, all settings to zéro, i found it a little "_covered_". Once i hit the treble switch a world opens up...
 I was afraid that it wouldn't be a good match with the ak120, but first impressions are positive.
  
 never owned an ALO, sorry, can't help you. 
  
 i'm not sur what you wanna say by layered sound?


----------



## Sound Eq

whoever said:


> no harshness for sure, soundstage i have to check again, but it seems quite open with the right settings. Personnaly, all settings to zéro, i found it a little "_covered_". Once i hit the treble switch a world opens up...
> 
> 
> I was afrait that it wouldn't be a good match with the ak120, but first impressions are positive.
> ...



 


hmmm do u think ur iems sound better with amp or through ur ak120 alone


----------



## whoever

ok, i wanted to be a little carefull about initial impressions…..but YES THEY DO sound better with the 5TX…..A LOT.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
it made me almost cry of pleasure.


----------



## Sound Eq

ok i am going to order one now then, i hope i will not have to wait for months until i get it though


----------



## zolom

Just ordered the 5TX with enhanced bass. 
Thanks for the short review above. 

Hope it will be shipped soon.


----------



## fizzytao

Thank you very much for the very 1st review of the new 5TX!  Hope I can get mine this week.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I ordered the normal bass boost one last Wednesday but my order status is still 'pending'......not sure what will be showing for the next, say, when the parcel is ready to ship?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

In ordering for an Headstage Amp patience IS an absolute virtue.
  
 Be prepared to wait.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
_Suggestion_: Just go along with your normal life and forget about it. It will come.


----------



## zolom




----------



## Drsparis

fizzytao said:


> Hope I can get mine this week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Lol


----------



## flinkenick

Alright, here's my full review of the 5TX:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/products/headstage-arrow-5tx/reviews/13836


----------



## whoever

flinkenick said:


> Alright, here's my full review of the 5TX:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/headstage-arrow-5tx/reviews/13836




I couldn't have said it better. Though, I think the interest lies not only in the bass switches, but in the very subtle and refined combination with the treble switch ! 

I haven't listen since yesterday and I'm really frustrated !!!


----------



## flinkenick

Thanks man. Playing around with the treble/bass switches ultimately depends on your source and iem (and preference of course). With the DX90 I used to add bass and only occasionally treble, but with the P1 I rarely add treble but my taste might have also changed a bit  And with a brighter iem as the Kuro its tonal suicide to add treble  YMMV of course


----------



## flinkenick

Oh and I lent out my DX90 and 5P so I couldn't do any direct comparison between the amps - but I wouldn't say it's a night and day difference


----------



## whoever

Definitely right! 

That's what I meant, you can adjust all this...no need to find another amp with another signature without being sure it'll be the one and spending 400$ again etc


----------



## whoever

I think we have a direct opponent to the Vorzüge Duo, as long as you don't touch the two freq options :

Gain 1, treble 1, bass 3, freq L : clean and unbeatable deep bass

Treble 2 bass 1 freq L: classical music comes to it's true beauty ! Strings are violently beautiful, same as voices...

Wagner's ouvertures are impressive, feeling like rubbing myself to the orchestra...love it!


----------



## PurdueAlum

How does the DAC functionality compare to others like the JDS Labs c5D or the Fiio e17? Just curious how running from a PC or Android phone to the DAC affects sound and functionality. Any DAC info is appreciated.


----------



## flinkenick

I haven't tried those amps, but in general I wouldn't recommend using the Arrow as a standalone dac. The imaging can not match that of the DX90 and P1; soundstage is quite narrow, imaging is less precise bass decreases etc.

But again this might also be the case with those amps as standalone compared to daps, I couldn't tell you..


----------



## Sound Eq

i ordered the 5tx enhanced bass version, and before i did 2 days ago robert informed me by email that he will ship immediately but until now my order status is still pending, but i guess the wait will not be long per roberts's email,
  
 i will use the 5tx with my shure 846 and soon to be ordered the sony z5


----------



## whoever

It takes two days to ship: 

Actually he ships first from China to Hong Kong, and then to elsewhere. You'll get the tracking after Hong Kong.


----------



## whoever

Anybody else noticed some hiss at gain 2 when no music ?


----------



## Sound Eq

whoever said:


> Anybody else noticed some hiss at gain 2 when no music ?


 
 i hope its not a loud hiss


----------



## whoever

Well, it's hearable...


But I don't listen at 2 so no problem


----------



## Sound Eq

whoever said:


> Well, it's hearable...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


do u have any planar headphones like an audeze lcd2, the reason i ask is becasue i would like to know if it can drive an audeze lcd2

if not no problem as i purily bought thr 5tx for my iem


----------



## whoever

Sorry, ain't


----------



## fizzytao

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> In ordering for an Headstage Amp patience IS an absolute virtue.
> 
> Be prepared to wait....
> 
> ...


 
  
 How can I get back to my normal life after reading all these here, unless you mean pressing the refresh button = normal life?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Now one more great review from flinkenick!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I write to Robert and offer him a beer if he happens to be here in Hong Kong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In no way a bribe for a faster delivery.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Just showing my (our?) appreciation for his unbelievable efforts and endurance spending months in an industrial park somewhere in China......who's gonna share the bill?  Anyone?  LOL


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Yeh! If I'm there I'll offer him a six-pack of ice cold San Miguel for his efforts. Too bad we have only Tsingtao here in Italy.


----------



## fizzytao

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Yeh! An ice cold San Miguel would be nice. Too bad we have only Tsingtao here in Italy.


 
  
 Good choice!  I like the San Miguel draft!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Though Moscato is my new favorite


----------



## flinkenick

sound eq said:


> do u have any planar headphones like an audeze lcd2, the reason i ask is becasue i would like to know if it can drive an audeze lcd2
> 
> if not no problem as i purily bought thr 5tx for my iem


 
 Correct me if I'm wrong but the LCD-2 only has an impedance of about 50-70 ohm right - so that's very easy to drive. At least that's what came up after a quick search. A while back someone posted being very content with the 5P driving a HD 800 which has an impedance of 300 ohm.
  
 Concerning the hiss, I only use gain setting I when I connect to my mac I believe and even if you'd ever hear hiss its gone when you play music. Connecting to an ipod, DX90 or P1 I have the gain switch on 0 and there is no hiss what so ever. In short, I have never had any issues with hiss.


----------



## BucketInABucket

flinkenick said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but the LCD-2 only has an impedance of about 50-70 ohm right - so that's very easy to drive. At least that's what came up after a quick search. A while back someone posted being very content with the 5P driving a HD 800 which has an impedance of 300 ohm.
> 
> Concerning the hiss, I only use gain setting I when I connect to my mac I believe and even if you'd ever hear hiss its gone when you play music. Connecting to an ipod, DX90 or P1 I have the gain switch on 0 and there is no hiss what so ever. In short, I have never had any issues with hiss.


 
 You also gotta look at the sensitivity (edit: and power requirement) of the LCD-2. It's 101dB / 1mW which isn't actually that bad, but it needs a lot of power to be able to sound great (1-4W) via voltage swing which the Arrow probably won't be able to provide.


----------



## flinkenick

Thanks for correcting me - honestly I have no experience with headphones at all


----------



## BucketInABucket

In short: it'll be loud, but it won't sound good.
  
 Edit: relative to a large desktop amp that is.


----------



## lazard

Is Robert shipping out orders now or is it still a 6+ month wait time?


----------



## fizzytao

lazard said:


> Is Robert shipping out orders now or is it still a 6+ month wait time?


 
  
 That's a million dollar question! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Robert writes on the 5TX product page tha*t '*New orders will ship in September'.  Well, I hope he can make it!


----------



## flinkenick

The waiting period was during development of the 5TX - now that production has started it shouldn't be that bad.


----------



## fizzytao

Hurray! Just got an email message from Robert that mine will be shipped out next week!


----------



## JamesBr

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Yeh! If I'm there I'll offer him a six-pack of ice cold San Miguel for his efforts. Too bad we have only Tsingtao here in Italy.


 
 Still good


----------



## whoever

After two weeks of listening...I have to say, I'm blown away!


----------



## RedJohn456

whoever said:


> After two weeks of listening...I have to say, I'm blown away!


 

 how good is the dac on it? I am currently using an apogee groove loaner unit and I am blown away by it. I am contemplating between the 5tx and the groove.
  
 Is the dac on the 5tx any good?


----------



## whoever

redjohn456 said:


> how good is the dac on it? I am currently using an apogee groove loaner unit and I am blown away by it. I am contemplating between the 5tx and the groove.
> 
> Is the dac on the 5tx any good?


 
 sorry, haven't tried it, only use the DAP+AMP alone with ciems


----------



## whoever

Ok i have a very stupid question: 
  
 i never used a DAC....so i tried yesterday on my airbook, thinking the only thing i had to do was mac--usb--arrow--headphones....
  
 Nothing happened...no sound....do i need to go to setting on my computer...or did i miss the whole thing of a DAC and have to do something completely different ? 
  
 Thanks for not laughing to loud....


----------



## flinkenick

whoever said:


> Ok i have a very stupid question:
> 
> i never used a DAC....so i tried yesterday on my airbook, thinking the only thing i had to do was mac--usb--arrow--headphones....
> 
> ...


 
 HAHAHAHAHAHA
  
 No kidding, I had to play around too. Go to 'system preferences' then 'sound' then select external dac, I think that's all


----------



## whoever

flinkenick said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> No kidding, I had to play around too. Go to 'system preferences' then 'sound' then select external dac, I think that's all




Haha ok thanks I'll try tonight


----------



## zolom

My 5TX (enhanced bass) is on its way.
 Soon after I'll get it I'll post first impression and comparison against the 5P
  
 Thanks Robert
  
 Edit: tomorrow is the date


----------



## flinkenick

Yes please do, it will also help me define the differences better. My first impressions were that the 5P is a bit clearer, the 5TX has a slightly wider soundstage. But I haven't really A/B'd since I just got new ciems I wanted to test so had to keep the source constant. I'll try doing some comparisons later this week too though.


----------



## Sound Eq

well now i know why all of you were waiting so patiently for the new 5tx release
  
 i received mine and boy what an amazing amp. its now end game for me, this is by far the best sound i heard in my life. Simply wow, the bass, the sound signature, the various controls of trebele and gain and bass switches are endless
  
  also its now end game for me to mess with software eqs finally, this amp gives you all you need from increasing bass and trebele
  
 Ak100ii ---- headstage arrow 5tx enhanced bass--- sony xba z5


----------



## fizzytao

sound eq said:


> well now i know why all of you were waiting so patiently for the new 5tx release
> 
> i received mine and boy what an amazing amp. its now end game for me, this is by far the best sound i heard in my life. Simply wow, the bass, the sound signature, the various controls of trebele and gain and bass switches are endless
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, it's an end game......until Arrow 6 releases!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seems many of us here start receiving the 5TX.  Where's mine?  I can't wait to pair it up with my Plenue M.


----------



## flinkenick

sound eq said:


> well now i know why all of you were waiting so patiently for the new 5tx release
> 
> i received mine and boy what an amazing amp. its now end game for me, this is by far the best sound i heard in my life. Simply wow, the bass, the sound signature, the various controls of trebele and gain and bass switches are endless
> 
> ...




You should try the Velvet sometime if possible, I think you'd really enjoy it


----------



## Sound Eq

with the 5tx there are to settings when you power it on, what are those settings for the button that truns on the device it has 2 settings
  
 i know all the other swtiches except why there are 2 settings for the power switch


----------



## Rayzilla

sound eq said:


> with the 5tx there are to settings when you power it on, what are those settings for the button that truns on the device it has 2 settings
> 
> i know all the other swtiches except why there are 2 settings for the power switch



Are you referring to the A and O options? If so, the A is for Automatic so it turns on when the Arrow detects sound from the player, otherwise it will automatically power off after some amount of time. And O is for keeping the Arrow powered continuously regardless if any music is playing or not.


----------



## whoever

It's a very good function this is I say! 

Best way to bring your player to perfect symbiosis with the amp. It actually turns on quite rapidly when you hit play, within a second, even less.


----------



## zolom

Got the 5TX few hours ago. Very impressive sound quality and stage. 

Had a short time to compare with my 5P. The AB test was done with both amps' settings set to "0" (bass and treble ).
Used my Lg G4 as source (RDIO) via usb audio (no sw equalizer) and my Shure se846 iems. 
I did listen to few tracks from "Archangel" by "Two steps from hell". 

As far as I could hear (with my old tired and non professional ears), the 5TX has a slightly wider stage. 
It really was very hard for me to notice any significant difference between the two. 
As far as I can say, both are very very good.


----------



## krc2

Does anyone use their Arrow as their main amplifier?
 I find myself plugging my fullsize cans into the Arrow over my other headphone amps while I'm at home. Theoretically the dedicated headphone amps *should* sound better, but I like the Arrow. Could this thing actually replace a fullsize can amp??


----------



## Rayzilla

krc2 said:


> Does anyone use their Arrow as their main amplifier?
> I find myself plugging my fullsize cans into the Arrow over my other headphone amps while I'm at home. Theoretically the dedicated headphone amps *should* sound better, but I like the Arrow. Could this thing actually replace a fullsize can amp??


 

 When I receive mine, I plan to use it as more than a portable dac/amp and I don't see why it can't be used that way. It is good enough for that. It is such a versatile piece of work.


----------



## Drsparis

Are you guys receiving shipping notices? or just receiving the amp? Been waiting a long time (again) and am jealous people are starting to get it lol


----------



## Luckbad

Just showed up in my mailbox like magic today with no notification.


----------



## Luckbad

*Headstage Arrow 5TX (Enhanced Bass Boost)*
  

  
 I'll just leave this right here.


----------



## Sound Eq

krc2 said:


> Does anyone use their Arrow as their main amplifier?
> I find myself plugging my fullsize cans into the Arrow over my other headphone amps while I'm at home. Theoretically the dedicated headphone amps *should* sound better, but I like the Arrow. Could this thing actually replace a fullsize can amp??


 
 with my iems shure 846 and sony z5 its amazing beyond anything i heard but with my lcd2 the bass settings cause distortions
  
 but remember my lcd2 gave me hard time to find a good portable match with it anyways


----------



## whoever

luckbad said:


> *Headstage Arrow 5TX (Enhanced Bass Boost)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




For those like me who are graph-o-incapable...mind a small comment ? Thx


----------



## flinkenick

Well you can just match what you're hearing to what you see - adding treble will increase treble freq, adding bass will increase bass. Changing the bass freq will (simply put) add more bass


----------



## Luckbad

The easiest way to interpret the graph is to click the image then go to the original.

Reds are High bass frequency, Purples are Medium, Teals are Low. Treble switch is green.

The Treble switch starts going up in the mids and hits 3dB or 6dB based on the switch position.

With the Bass switch, you get more total Bass with the High frequency switch but it starts to bloat toward the mids. In the Low frequency setting, you get less audible bass but it doesn't make the sound flabby at all.

With no switches, the only minor frequency response issue is that bass starts to to roll off a tiny bit around 75Hz until it's 1dB down at 20Hz. Most music will lose nothing, and bass heavy music deserves a boost anyway.


----------



## flinkenick

Oh interesting, so the bass is slightly reduced in the '0' setting? Did you do the measurements yourself?


----------



## krc2

sound eq said:


> with my iems shure 846 and sony z5 its amazing beyond anything i heard but with my lcd2 the bass settings cause distortions
> 
> but remember my lcd2 gave me hard time to find a good portable match with it anyways


 
  
 How did you find it handled the LCD2 when bass settings were at 0? Clean/powerful/transparent? As good as a desktop amp in your opinion?


----------



## Sound Eq

krc2 said:


> How did you find it handled the LCD2 when bass settings were at 0? Clean/powerful/transparent? As good as a desktop amp in your opinion?


 
 with no bass switched on the lcd 2 sound not good, lack of bass, with bass switch on i find it distort the lcd2 
  
 in my opinion for orthos it my not be good
  
 but i am sure it will be great with other full headphones
  
 BUT FOR IEMS boy boy boy boy boy what an amazing amp


----------



## bigbung

sound eq said:


> with no bass switched on the lcd 2 sound not good, lack of bass, with bass switch on i find it distort the lcd2
> 
> in my opinion for orthos it my not be good
> 
> ...


 
 Very interesting.... I have been using the 5P with my hd650 and it sounds very good(I know it can sound better as I keep reading that the hd650s scale very well with higher grade amps) I have been considering upgrading to the LCD 2 but this tells me I have to get a better amp for it if I go that route. Which amp do you have btw for the LCDs @hykhleif?


----------



## Sound Eq

bigbung said:


> Very interesting.... I have been using the 5P with my hd650 and it sounds very good(I know it can sound better as I keep reading that the hd650s scale very well with higher grade amps) I have been considering upgrading to the LCD 2 but this tells me I have to get a better amp for it if I go that route. Which amp do you have btw for the LCDs @hykhleif?


 
 my portable amp for lcd2 is alo mk3 B
  
 as i said i am sure the 5tx will rock with other headphones, also take it that since day 1 i had problems with my lcd2 and finding a good portable amp for it
  
 i did not buy the 5tx for my lcd2 i bought it for my iems and its the best thing i bought so far


----------



## krc2

I have been using my arrow with the K7XX (mine's a 3G arrow).
  
 Compared to straight out of computer/iphone, and compared to my desktop amp, the soundstage immediately 'opens' up with the arrow. When I have the gain on 'III' setting, I find that the sound is quite full, vocals are clear, full, and close, and soundstage stays great.
 When on the 'I' setting of gain and at lower volumes, I find that the mids kind of recede into the background a bit. The impedence settings tend not to change the sound much.
  
 Overall I'm quite happy! I use a DAC as well (the Aune T1 with a nice Amperex tube). When using the T1's internal amp, I can definitely notice a difference when A/Bing the Arrow (the Arrow sounds more open - noticeably!)
  
 My only concern is if the K7xx is getting all it needs from the Arrow. It sounds like in the case of the LCD2, the Arrow 5 doesn't have enough for it.


----------



## Luckbad

flinkenick said:


> Oh interesting, so the bass is slightly reduced in the '0' setting? Did you do the measurements yourself?


 
  
 Yeah. It loses about 1dB between 20Hz and 80Hz. Not something anyone is likely to actually perceive, and most music doesn't even have anything down there.
  
 It's less of a difference than channel imbalance on many headphone amplifiers, and this had extremely small imbalance (something like 0.1 dB).
  
 I'll do formal measurements this weekend or next beyond just the frequency switch check. I ran it through RMAA just out of curiosity without disabling things I'd normally disable and it looked good.


----------



## phonomat

flinkenick said:


> You should try the Velvet sometime if possible, I think you'd really enjoy it


 

 And what, pray tell, is a "Velvet"?


----------



## whoever

phonomat said:


> And what, pray tell, is a "Velvet"?


 
 http://www.earsonics.com/en/premiums-earphones/velvet-2/


----------



## Sound Eq

hey guys i have to give it to robert he did something that i never expected with creating the 5tx enhanced bass
  
 i do not know if some of you follow my comments on other threads, i have been always saying that i have to use eq and my eq curve was looking like a zigzag and i was struggling to have all the eq settings saved and switch between them for different albums, it was a struggle
  
 i swear to u guys i do not touch the eq in ak100ii at all what a dam relief
  
 now all i do is use the bass setting on 1 and gain 1 on the 5tx
  
 what an achievement man, i never thought i would stop playing with software eq , but gone are those days with the 5tx no more fine tuning with software eq


----------



## phonomat

whoever said:


> http://www.earsonics.com/en/premiums-earphones/velvet-2/




Ah, thanks! Very tasty-looking, but my next stop is Customs. :etysmile:


----------



## flinkenick

Well it was a specific recommendation for Hykhleif  customs are nice though any thoughts on which direction you're going?


----------



## Sound Eq

flinkenick said:


> Well it was a specific recommendation for Hykhleif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 one of my head-fier freinds bought the velvet and he returned it, i was about to buy it as me and him share similar sound sigs, but the problem he had was fit so he could not get the full potential of sound from the velvet.
  
 so maybe i should reconsider the velvet, i do not know all i know is it must be an upgrade to my shure 846 and z5
  
 right now i am am in too much joy from the 5tx, as you maybe know its not easy for me to recommend anything unless its perfect and the 5tx is


----------



## phonomat

flinkenick said:


> Well it was a specific recommendation for Hykhleif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sure, I know, I was just curious.
  
 And boy, have I agonized over this question. I'm on the hunt since my Westone 3 gave up the ghost months ago. I'm looking for something bass-heavy (well, duh, otherwise I wouldn't be here, right?). Was considering the Noble 8 for a while, but they're impossible to audition where I live, and there's no way I'm buying blind.
 And then I auditioned the Vision Ears VE6XC, and I have to say I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on those babies. I'm gonna go with just the X1 though, without the switch implementation, since I have no need for a "flat" sig. I found them really impressive, even more so than the VE4, which was no slouch itself. Very clear, but with a very satisfying low end.


----------



## phonomat

sound eq said:


> so maybe i should reconsider the velvet, i do not know all i know is it must be an upgrade to my shure 846 and z5


 
 Have you considered the 1plus2? Just a hunch, but they might suit your tastes. I still think a dynamic driver is hard to beat for sheer bass impact, and although I haven't personally heard those, one hears great things about them; they really do seem to combine the best of both worlds. Don't know if they're still available though; I shot Tralucent a couple of e-mails quite some time ago asking about them and never received an answer.


----------



## flinkenick

sound eq said:


> one of my head-fier freinds bought the velvet and he returned it, i was about to buy it as me and him share similar sound sigs, but the problem he had was fit so he could not get the full potential of sound from the velvet.
> 
> so maybe i should reconsider the velvet, i do not know all i know is it must be an upgrade to my shure 846 and z5
> 
> right now i am am in too much joy from the 5tx, as you maybe know its not easy for me to recommend anything unless its perfect and the 5tx is




Well it seams you might not be entirely happy with the 846 since I've seen your classifieds offering to trade it for daps a while back. All I know is that the 846 is the most compared iem on the Velvet thread, I think we just had the 7th person who got a Velvet after being unsatisfied with the 846 and was finally happy (but who's counting). I've never heard the 846 so I don't know why some people are unhappy with it, but apparantly the Velvet is satisfying something that is missing for people that don't like it.


----------



## flinkenick

phonomat said:


> Have you considered the 1plus2? Just a hunch, but they might suit your tastes. I still think a dynamic driver is hard to beat for sheer bass impact, and although I haven't personally heard those, one hears great things about them; they really do seem to combine the best of both worlds. Don't know if they're still available though; I shot Tralucent a couple of e-mails quite some time ago asking about them and never received an answer.


 
 I haven't heard the 1+2 so 'officially' I can't comment on this but I do know a couple of people who own it, and one that owns both the 1+2 and Velvet. While my understanding is that it is a great iem with indeed great bass, it's not so much a basshead's iem due to its signature. For Hykhleif specifically (for synthpop) I think the Velvet would be a better match, although I'm not stating that the Velvet is better in the absolute sense.


----------



## flinkenick

Does anybody know if the gain switch affects sound, besides volume. Like if you're using the Arrow with iems and there is no power-related reason to use more gain, can there still be a theoretical reason to add more gain?
  
 *ouch 3 posts in a row, hate when people do that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*


----------



## Luckbad

flinkenick said:


> Does anybody know if the gain switch affects sound, besides volume. Like if you're using the Arrow with iems and there is no power-related reason to use more gain, can there still be a theoretical reason to add more gain?
> 
> *ouch 3 posts in a row, hate when people do that  *




It shouldn't. Amp manufacturers always say not to use gain unless you need it for volume. It can actually damage your headphones if they can't handle it.


----------



## flinkenick

Ow ok.. Low gain it is


----------



## Sound Eq

flinkenick said:


> Ow ok.. Low gain it is


 
 with my xba z5 and shure 846  i use gain 1, somehow i like it better than 0


----------



## flinkenick

Do you know what sounds different, or better?


----------



## lazard

I thought these were in production.  At this rate, what is he mailing out, one unit a month?


----------



## fizzytao

It seems that only the 'enhanced bass' units are shipped.  Has anyone got the 'normal bass' version?  What a wait......


----------



## fizzytao

Just got a reply from Robert.  He is still working on the new batch of amps and will finish them this week.  He must be busy somewhere in China and, you know, I almost offer myself to go there and help!  LOL
  
 Well, I have to admit that being living in Hong Kong, we head-fi'ers are spoiled.  We can get virtually anything around the world within 30 minutes, whether it is a desktop amp, portable amp, DAC, cables, IEM, on-ear, over-ear......This time is really a hard but good training for me.


----------



## flinkenick

Lol, you realise a lot of us have been waiting over 9 months here 
  
 In the meanwhile, I'm going to put up my 5P or 5TX for sale - if anybody's interested pm me


----------



## Sound Eq

flinkenick said:


> Lol, you realise a lot of us have been waiting over 9 months here
> 
> In the meanwhile, I'm going to put up my 5P or 5TX for sale - if anybody's interested pm me


 
 why u selling the 5tx


----------



## flinkenick

No point keeping both, so will sell either one


----------



## PurdueAlum

flinkenick said:


> No point keeping both, so will sell either one




Is the 5TX normal or enhanced bass?


----------



## flinkenick

Enhanced


----------



## JamesBr

flinkenick said:


> Do you know what sounds different, or better?


 
 Vague question ....


----------



## jmills8

flinkenick said:


> No point keeping both, so will sell either one


 Keep Both! Cause then you will never have to wait without an amp.


----------



## flinkenick

jamesbr said:


> Vague question ....




He says he thinks using gain sounds better, and I'm asking why. How can I make it more specific if I don't know where he's hearing an improvement.


----------



## zolom

Currently I own the 5TX (enhanced bass) and the 5P. As posted few days ago, both sound great! I think that the 5TX has a slightly better stage. Did check it  with the two amps set to minimal levels of bass, treble and gain, with my Shure SE 846 and LG G4 streaming RDIO as a source via USB audio and no software equalizer. Really hard to notice significant change between the two.
  
 The 5P will go to my son. Keeping the 5TX.


----------



## dizzyraider

fizzytao said:


> It seems that only the 'enhanced bass' units are shipped.  Has anyone got the 'normal bass' version?  What a wait......


 
  
 I received the normal bass version early last week. For me, I found the 5P's bass boost and treble boost was too strong for my headphones, so I elected to go with the non boosted version.
  
 After a few days of with the 5TX, I found the sound stage to be better than the 5P. When I paired the 5P with the X5, I found that even though the sound was cleaner, there was a definite narrowing effect on the sound stage. With the 5TX, the sound stage is maintained while providing ample power to my full size.


----------



## dizzyraider

flinkenick said:


> Does anybody know if the gain switch affects sound, besides volume. Like if you're using the Arrow with iems and there is no power-related reason to use more gain, can there still be a theoretical reason to add more gain?
> 
> *ouch 3 posts in a row, hate when people do that
> 
> ...


 
  
 Technically, it is better to use lower gain whenever possible, since increasing the gain also increase the noise level. So if you are using something more sensitive, you are more likely to hear noise in the background. Using higher gain shouldn't change anything besides giving you higher gain on the signal, so if you don't need the extra loudness, staying with lower gain should give you cleaner sound and more play with the volume pot.
  
 *Although sometimes I do see people mention that they hear sound differently with higher gain.....maybe possible....no idea


----------



## flinkenick

dizzyraider said:


> I received the normal bass version early last week. For me, I found the 5P's bass boost and treble boost was too strong for my headphones, so I elected to go with the non boosted version.
> 
> After a few days of with the 5TX, I found the sound stage to be better than the 5P. When I paired the 5P with the X5, I found that even though the sound was cleaner, there was a definite narrowing effect on the sound stage. With the 5TX, the sound stage is maintained while providing ample power to my full size.


 
 Did you also find this with iems, or just full cans? I've A/B'ed with iems but couldn't really here a difference, but it's possible differences are greater with full size phones(?)


----------



## dizzyraider

flinkenick said:


> Did you also find this with iems, or just full cans? I've A/B'ed with iems but couldn't really here a difference, but it's possible differences are greater with full size phones (?)​


 
  
 For me this is with the UE900 as well as the full size. I noticed this when I was checking to see if the X5 handles the IEM as well as the external amp, the 5P narrowed the sound stage a bit but thought sound quality was better. With the 5TX, the sound stage remained the same as the source.
  
 *Likely attribute the difference in sound stage to the change in opamps.


----------



## fizzytao

dizzyraider said:


> I received the normal bass version early last week. For me, I found the 5P's bass boost and treble boost was too strong for my headphones, so I elected to go with the non boosted version.
> 
> After a few days of with the 5TX, I found the sound stage to be better than the 5P. When I paired the 5P with the X5, I found that even though the sound was cleaner, there was a definite narrowing effect on the sound stage. With the 5TX, the sound stage is maintained while providing ample power to my full size.


 
  
 Good to know that the normal bass version has been out!  I guess I'll get mine next week  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Will try it out with my all-BA, hybrid IEM's and full cans to see how soundstage's going......


----------



## fizzytao

Just got my 'normal bass version' 30 minutes ago.  This is what I write to Robert right after:
  
_Hi Robert,_
  
_Just receive the parcel this morning.  The build quality is so good!  I like the ‘feel’ of the switches.  The short 3.5mm-3.5mm cable is very nice!  You really care about the details.  _
  
_I listen with my LG G3 for a couple of minutes and this is really my cup of tea!  The soundstage is excellent.  The treble and bass enhancements are insanely good!  I know this will be the best purchase that I have ever made!_
  
_Now I let it charged for a few hours.  Will then try with my Cowon Plenue M._
  
_Great job, Robert!  Thank you!  I will share my further thoughts with you and on Head-fi and some local forums later when time comes._
  
_P.S. My offer on beer is still valid!    Come to Hong Kong to redeem any time._
  
 So you see I am VERY happy!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My offer of beer is real!  I mean it!


----------



## lazard

when did you order yours?


----------



## fizzytao

lazard said:


> when did you order yours?


 
  
 I placed my order in August, i.e. last month.
  
 The web site now reads '*New orders will ship in November!*' Go trust/judge by yourself.


----------



## lazard

Thanks.  still deliberating whether to wait or issue a chargeback.  Been waiting almost 3 months and counting.


----------



## fizzytao

lazard said:


> Thanks.  still deliberating whether to wait or issue a chargeback.  Been waiting almost 3 months and counting.


 
  
 Try write to Robert again.  It seems he has finished a batch of production and now has more time to reply on emails.  He is responding to me like daily on emails.


----------



## Luckbad

Is anyone still waiting/debating about the Enhanced Bass version of the 5TX? It seems like he must have sent those off first.


----------



## flinkenick

Concerning Robert, waiting, and shipments: if you have been on this thread for a while you should know that there is no logic or predicting when you will receive an amp or even when Robert will reply. There are short periods when Robert will be very responsive, but after that he most likely will go into hybernation mode and not respond for weeks.
  
 That being said, the longest waiting period was the pre-production phase because the 5TX still had to be developed. Now at least there are no problems and it's just about actually building them, although it's possible that he has to wait on third parties for parts. But the statement of 'November' means more than the it would have 3 months ago. If you're waiting on a 5TX, it's best to try and forget you ordered one and be surprised when it shows up one day..


----------



## Sound Eq

after buying the 5tx, i became a die hard fan of his amp, and i will wait for whatever time it will take to make a new version after a year or two, as his 5tx is the best thing i ever bought and its so tiny


----------



## jmills8

Using the 5P with Bass Boost at 2. Group: Archetics . Lost Together CD.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Does this come with a cable to plug into my samsung Note 4?  (5tx)


----------



## whoever

you mean an interconnect? yes, and the shortest one i've seen, very sexy.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

whoever said:


> you mean an interconnect? yes, and the shortest one i've seen, very sexy.


 

  no like the one here otg usb mini to mini I believe
  

  
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/headstage-arrow-5tx
  
  
 this review box looks like it has one and I want to confirm this. thanks for the reply


----------



## flinkenick

Yes it comes with a usb mini to usb mini for android, and two small regular interconnects


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

flinkenick said:


> Yes it comes with a usb mini to usb mini for android, and two small regular interconnects


 

  Thank you for the confirmation


----------



## flinkenick

No problem!


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

flinkenick said:


> No problem!


 

  I can bypass the dac in it apparently right? It seems folks are using this as an amp only is there a switch
  

  
 Does the bass enhanced ver have a switch for amp only and not using the dac?
  
 I will run a Note4 >Aegis Dac>Headstage amp
  
 That possible?
  
 Switch on right = Off /PC/Mobile...??


----------



## flinkenick

If you use the regular 'in' it only uses the amp; you only use the dac if you connect it to a smartphone or computer via usb but you don't need a switch.

The switch that you see is only for the power source, if it should be powered by the internal battery or external source (like pc).

Don't see why that wouldn't be possible  You can just connect the dac and Arrow with a regular interconnect.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

flinkenick said:


> If you use the regular 'in' it only uses the amp; you only use the dac if you connect it to a smartphone or computer via usb but you don't need a switch.
> 
> The switch that you see is only for the power source, if it should be powered by the internal battery or external source (like pc).
> 
> ...


 

  
  
 O.K. then I'll be running this with a mini to mini from  Aegis to the "in" on the top of the amp then headphone out for IEM.
 SO nothing will be jacked into the bottom of the device if I'm putting the Aegis before it.
  
 Got it...thanks for the help bro


----------



## flinkenick

No problem, sounds like a solid setup. Which iem is in the picture? I'm guessing an ASG?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

flinkenick said:


> No problem, sounds like a solid setup. Which iem is in the picture?


 

  Aurisonics 2.5
  
 The 5.7" Note 4 for is the host, the 24/196 Aegis is the dac and the headstage will be sending out the shockwaves to be played by the 2.5 It'll be lighter than my x5/e12 or x5/C5 stack but much bigger and flexible audio wise....lotta win
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Will be doing a review too


----------



## flinkenick

Nice, a review of the arrow you mean?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

flinkenick said:


> Nice, a review of the arrow you mean?


 

 Yup.
  
 If this thing is what they say it is I'm gonna pump it to bassheads world wide. And they can wait in the long line


----------



## flinkenick

Haha yes the SQ of the arrow is dead neutral, but dat bass  

+9/+18 db while remaining punchy, you'll love it


----------



## lmfboy01

nt


----------



## lmfboy01

Great Amp! Im impressed.  More better pics when i got some time.
  Wait well worth it!  Im lovin' it!


----------



## Sound Eq

wish that there is an amp with the same bass boost like 5tx for my audeze lcd2
  
 this 5tx is a dream come true to bassheads iem lovers
  
 now is the search for an amp that drives my audeze lcd2 with the same bass boost options


----------



## whoever

It's actually a bass-treble head boost dream...either together or separated


----------



## flinkenick

lmfboy01 said:


> Great Amp! Im impressed.  More better pics when i got some time.
> Wait well worth it!  Im lovin' it!


 
 Is that a smartphone or dap? If it's a phone you could use the micro usb to micro usb, might sound better


----------



## Mmet

flinkenick said:


> Is that a smartphone or dap? If it's a phone you could use the micro usb to micro usb, might sound better



AK Jr I think....


----------



## lmfboy01

Arrow 5TX    AK Jr     IE8

  

 Bassheads around the world would love this guy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Love T+1    B+2    Low band
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Interconnect is perfect with the Jr.  Would love to pair it with android but my phone is IP68 certified so USB is behind a covered latch.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

lmfboy01 said:


> Arrow 5TX    AK Jr     IE8
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   Nice pics!
 Mine should be arriving in the next few days


----------



## jmills8

Dann Im waiting.


----------



## JamesBr

lmfboy01 said:


> Arrow 5TX    AK Jr     IE8
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 really cool setup!


----------



## jmills8




----------



## Hawaiibadboy

jmills8 said:


>


 

  How is it?
  
 We got bass?


----------



## jmills8

hawaiibadboy said:


> How is it?
> 
> We got bass?


Well I think the model I received is not the bass enhanced. Which means the focus is on sound stage and not the bass. The previous model the 5P has a lot of bass with a strong bass punch. Is this amp without the bass enhancement good? Yes it is but I want the bass plus. It does have the bass boost so the bass is strobg and deep but not as stromg as in the 5P.


----------



## Lopsy1

Love my one. It makes my Roxy's sing, ASG-2.5 rumble, still have to try it with my SE846 and Plenue M. It took my PM-3 to another level. This amp is unbelievable. Thanks Robert.


----------



## flashmp3

lopsy1 said:


> Love my one. It makes my Roxy's sing, ASG-2.5 rumble, still have to try it with my SE846 and Plenue M. It took my PM-3 to another level. This amp is unbelievable. Thanks Robert.


 
 Did it manage to turn the PM-3 into basshead ?


----------



## Lopsy1

Yes I did, and it was beautiful deep and clean bass.


----------



## flashmp3

lopsy1 said:


> Yes I did, and it was beautiful deep and clean bass.




I wanted to buy pm3 as they just look beautiful and appear to be so comfortable. I was disappointed when I heard that as a basshead I would be disappointed with the sq. So I didn't even go to a shop and try to listen by myself as God bassheads on this forum told me it would be a waste of time


----------



## Lopsy1

Without the arrow the bass of PM-3 from AK100II or Plenue M wasn't something that I liked. I tried HA-2 bass boost, but still bass was somehow bloated. Arrow 5 Tx did what nothing else could do.


----------



## flashmp3

@Hawaiibadboy what do you think of it ? i have often seen headphones with good potential but not tested in good conditions. Sometimes some just need a good eq to make them sounding as we like. Sometime the little bass boost switch on the amp is just not enough to get bass. Equalizers can make miracle. Did you have a chance the test PM3 with your C5 and a good equalizer to raise bass ?


----------



## MrBackup

I am interested in buying a portable amp and had thought of this Headstage Arrow 5TX. Is this 5TX much better than the Fiio e12a for IEMs?


----------



## jmills8

mrbackup said:


> I am interested in buying a portable amp and had thought of this Headstage Arrow 5TX. Is this 5TX much better than the Fiio e12a for IEMs?


 Dude the Arrow is a lot better in many ways or everyway except it cost a bit more.


----------



## MrBackup

jmills8 said:


> Dude the Arrow is a lot better in many ways or everyway except it cost a bit more.


 
  
 Is the Arrow at the same level as the VorzAMP pure II™?


----------



## jmills8

mrbackup said:


> Is the Arrow at the same level as the VorzAMP pure II™?


 Yep, I have two Arrows and I had the Vorz. I know two other Arrow owners who also used to have the Vorz.


----------



## Luckbad

Compared to the Headstage, the Vorzuge has slightly better clarity, more power, less IEM compatibility, less flexibility (not as many switches), and less portability.
  
 I sold my Vorzuge VorzAMP Duo when I got the Headstage Arrow 5TX (Enhanced Bass) because I wanted better IEM compatibility and didn't need the power of the Vorzuge.
  
 Now I'm considering selling my Headstage Arrow 5TX (Enhanced Bass) to just get a cheaper amp-only non-portable solution. I'm not convinced yet, though, because finding a better desktop amp at less than the Arrow's asking price isn't necessarily easy.


----------



## jmills8

luckbad said:


> Compared to the Headstage, the Vorzuge has slightly better clarity, more power, less IEM compatibility, less flexibility (not as many switches), and less portability.
> 
> I sold my Vorzuge VorzAMP Duo when I got the Headstage Arrow 5TX (Enhanced Bass) because I wanted better IEM compatibility and didn't need the power of the Vorzuge.
> 
> Now I'm considering selling my Headstage Arrow 5TX (Enhanced Bass) to just get a cheaper amp-only non-portable solution. I'm not convinced yet, though, because finding a better desktop amp at less than the Arrow's asking price isn't necessarily easy.


 This Makes three previous Vorz owners. I know two previous Hugo owners who now have a 5TX.


----------



## lazard

Still no 5TX or reply to my email.  This is getting ridiculous.  My CF Laylas didn't even take this long.


----------



## jmills8

lazard said:


> Still no 5TX or reply to my email.  This is getting ridiculous.  My CF Laylas didn't even take this long.


 Many waited 6 months and were upset but now one said he is in love.


----------



## wjblaney

How many have received their 5TX and how many have not? I have not and paid for mine in Aug.


----------



## jmills8

Many have waited 4 months.


----------



## wjblaney

Does anybody with the new 5TX used to have the 4G? If so, how does it compare?


----------



## wjblaney

Well, at least he started delivering, finally. I'll be one of those in love.


----------



## fizzytao

wjblaney said:


> How many have received their 5TX and how many have not? I have not and paid for mine in Aug.


 
  
 I ordered in mid-Aug and I am now holding it in my hands......can't tell you enough how much I love it.


----------



## lazard

Ordered mine over 3 months ago, emailed him like a 3-4 weeks ago, he gave some excuse for delay and haven't heard and received anything since.


----------



## jmills8

lazard said:


> Ordered mine over 3 months ago, emailed him like a 3-4 weeks ago, he gave some excuse for delay and haven't heard and received anything since.


Cool only two more months for you to be super happy !


----------



## flinkenick

Robert visiting Sammy from Rhapsodio! 2 of my favorite companies combined 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
https://www.facebook.com/rhapsodiohk/photos/a.422671181176278.1073741867.254838767959521/773137322796327/?type=3&theater


----------



## jmills8




----------



## XtianP

Ordered in february,received two weeks ago.
It replace my 2G, more detail , clear and dynamic sound. It's a big improvment. Robert have done a great job, improving his little baby.

I think that Robert should, now, manufactured and dispatched the 5TX and postponed the next improvement. No need to provide a new model every year as apple or others


----------



## jmills8




----------



## Drsparis

really 2 weeks ago!!!??? I ordered in January and still don't have it, jealous!!! lol


----------



## Lopsy1

I ordered my in September and received it two weeks after I placed my order. I was a lucky one. And love it!!!


----------



## ANDEROAN

jmills8 said:


>


 
  
 are those ASG's? my ASG-2's pair awesomely well with my 5G! I will be getting the TX at some point, I'll have to check in with Robert to see what's what, a true artist he is with his audio work!


----------



## jmills8

anderoan said:


> are those ASG's? my ASG-2's pair awesomely well with my 5G! I will be getting the TX at some point, I'll have to check in with Robert to see what's what, a true artist he is with his audio work!


 Aurisonics Kicker.


----------



## Sound Eq

guys can i ask some ak100ii owners who used it with 5tx do u hear static when using akconnect between songs, with your iems from the 5tx


----------



## Lopsy1

AK100II+Arrow 5tx+ASG-2.5. What can I say. WOW!!!


----------



## Drsparis

lopsy1 said:


> I ordered my in September and received it two weeks after I placed my order. I was a lucky one. And love it!!!


 
 wow, I'm both happy for you and extremely ticked off lol....


----------



## lazard

Just sent another email to Robert.  If nothing comes by the end of the month, will probably cancel and pick up a chord mojo instead.


----------



## jmills8

lazard said:


> Just sent another email to Robert.  If nothing comes by the end of the month, will probably cancel and pick up a chord mojo instead.


 You have your answer, you put in your head that you want the Chord and most likely you will find something not to like about the Arrow. Best go buy the Chird and when you need more then retry for an Arrow. Or buy Chord while you wait for the Arrow. Then sell one once you tested them.


----------



## lazard

jmills8 said:


> You have your answer, you put in your head that you want the Chord and most likely you will find something not to like about the Arrow. Best go buy the Chird and when you need more then retry for an Arrow. Or buy Chord while you wait for the Arrow. Then sell one once you tested them.


 
  
 I rather have the arrow, but who knows when he'll send it out, or if he'll send another excuse about how he was gonna send it out but they turned out ugly so he shipped them to upgraders instead.


----------



## jmills8

lazard said:


> I rather have the arrow, but who knows when he'll send it out, or if he'll send another excuse about how he was gonna send it out but they turned out ugly so he shipped them to upgraders instead.


 I hate the waut but one thing I know he us witking over time trying to please everybody on Earth who wants one.


----------



## mikeral

5Tx owners - does it have optical in ?


----------



## flinkenick

Nope, just 3,5 mm TRS


----------



## wjblaney

Got an email from Robert explaining the delays some of us are having vs the fast delivery others seem to be getting. It makes a lot of sense to me and it's like this: he is delivering the 5TX to his new customers first. We, who have re-ordered (want to replace a working older model with the 5TX) are last in line. I replied that was fine with me and told him I'd wait and not put the pressure on.


----------



## Drsparis

wjblaney said:


> Got an email from Robert explaining the delays some of us are having vs the fast delivery others seem to be getting. It makes a lot of sense to me and it's like this: he is delivering the 5TX to his new customers first. We, who have re-ordered (want to replace a working older model with the 5TX) are last in line. I replied that was fine with me and told him I'd wait and not put the pressure on.


 
 Thanks for the update, makes sense!


----------



## ANDEROAN

I have never loved an amp more then then my 5G! it is my ubber portable that I use on my commute to and from work, the only other piece of gear that I swear by is my ZOv1! thumpity thump thump, thumpity thump, look at ZOey go, lol and now my only other other piece of gear is Cesars Portaphile Shohin! not soo portable as I use it along with my CLAS-R, but all of them are ubber great!
  
 Robert is an artist! who has made the bestest smallestests amp in the whole world, well worth any kind of wait, I will eventaully be trading in/up with a 4T that I have sitting around, but in the meantime my 5G is awesome! thanks Robert!


----------



## wjblaney

Feel the same way about my 4g. But am already in the upgrade queue for the 5TX. Can't wait but can!


----------



## RASeymour

It arrived!!  Nine months later but I'm sure it will be worth the wait.  Thanks Robert.


----------



## whoever

raseymour said:


> It arrived!!  Nine months later but I'm sure it will be worth the wait.  Thanks Robert.




Congrats ! An yes...1000% worth it


----------



## wjblaney

Congrats. Just curious: is the first amp you've bought from robert?


----------



## flinkenick

Think his signature is pretty self explanatory..


----------



## wjblaney

Yeah, right. once u get an amp from robert, u never think of comparison shopping again.


----------



## flinkenick

Especially concerning portability I think they are very hard to beat.. Plus dat bass


----------



## sluker

Ordered mine in January, half a dozen emails, still nothing.


----------



## wjblaney

a re-order, right? What version do you have now? How well does it work and how satisfied are you with it?


----------



## whoever

sluker said:


> Ordered mine in January, half a dozen emails, still nothing.


 

 send him a mail, tell him if it's not shipped in the next 24h hours you'll file a ppal claim . 
  
 Robert is basically a nice guy, but i guess sometimes he gets lost in all his orders. This has been discussed a thousand times here for sure, but it doesn't justify a wait like yours, especially since many have received theirs . 
  
 Hope you'll get it soon, this is the best amp out there at this price 
  
 cheers


----------



## jmills8

whoever said:


> send him a mail, tell him if it's not shipped in the next 24h hours you'll file a ppal claim .
> 
> Robert is basically a nice guy, but i guess sometimes he gets lost in all his orders. This has been discussed a thousand times here for sure, but it doesn't justify a wait like yours, especially since many have received theirs .
> 
> ...


Or find him and knock on his door.


----------



## RASeymour

RHA T10's and the 5G:
  
 Listened to the new 5TX (normal bass boost edition) over the weekend, exclusively with the RHA T10.  I liked the T10 but found the treble to be a bit rolled off and the vocals recessed.  To a large extent the 5TX fixed this. 
  
 The treble switch (at I setting) upped the treble just enough.  I'm treble sensitive.  The T10 is the only earphone I can listen to with silicone ear tips and not Comply.  The double flange tips sounded good, but at the gym I needed the isolation of Comply tips.  The Comply tips, as usual, rounded off the treble a bit and the T10 didn't have any to spare.  I'm using the reference filters
  
 I didn't think I would need the bass switch, but I found that a low setting helped bump the bass up just a bit, which is unusual given the T10 is already bass heavy.  For contrast, with my 3G, I needed to turn the bass boost off completely to use the T10.
  
 Vocal still are somewhat recessed but better.
  
  
 Miscellaneous:
  
 Love the volume switch.  I often need to adjust the volume just a bit between albums.  Also, I can't always see the volume button and just do it by feel, resulting in difficulties in hitting the right volume lever.  Now, with the rocker switch I can just give it a bump or two and can more easily feel the button.  A great feature for me that I wasn't even looking for.
  
 Soundstage seems somewhat wider.  Haven't done an A/B test but Robert's claims for a better soundstage are right on.
  
 Didn't use as a DAC, so no comment.  Ran out of a FiiO X3.
  
 Of course, the overall sound is just wonderful.


----------



## Drsparis

sluker said:


> Ordered mine in January, half a dozen emails, still nothing.


 
 Is it an upgrade? Apparantly upgrades are getting shipped last, somewhat understandable considering he let me keep the old version while I wait.  I too ordered it in January. Don`t fret, you'll get it soon.


----------



## sluker

drsparis said:


> Is it an upgrade? Apparantly upgrades are getting shipped last, somewhat understandable considering he let me keep the old version while I wait.  I too ordered it in January. Don`t fret, you'll get it soon.


 

 Yes mine is an upgrade I have the 4. Has anyone upgrading received theirs yet?


----------



## RASeymour

Yes. Received on Friday.  Sent in upgrade amp in January.  No prior warning, just appeared in the mail (USPS I think).


----------



## Drsparis

raseymour said:


> Yes. Received on Friday.  Sent in upgrade amp in January.  No prior warning, just appeared in the mail (USPS I think).


 
 YAY!!! Thanks, means the upgrades will start coming soon!!!


----------



## RedJohn456

jmills8 said:


> Or find him and knock on his door.


 

  
 Couldn't help it


----------



## flinkenick

lol


----------



## jmills8

The Arrow 5P sounds better than the Mojo in every catagory. Wonder how the 5TX will do?


----------



## flinkenick

Oh you tried the Mojo already? Not impressed? It's becoming quite a hype.


----------



## jmills8

flinkenick said:


> Oh you tried the Mojo already? Not impressed? It's becoming quite a hype.


was good but not at all better,PERIOD.


----------



## flinkenick

Glad to hear  Does the Mojo have bass boost?


----------



## jmills8

flinkenick said:


> Glad to hear  Does the Mojo have bass boost?


no


----------



## flinkenick

I think I'm also forever spoiled with how thin the Arrow is. The Mojo might be small but I don't see myself strapping that onto a P1 and fitting it in my pocket..


----------



## whoever

And I remember people saying the Vorzüge is a PERFECT mobile match for the ak120....it is HUUUUUUGE In comparison to the arrow....seemed like I had hard times in my jeans when putting it in my pocket. 

The arrow just disappears...magic!


----------



## jmills8

whoever said:


> And I remember people saying the Vorzüge is a PERFECT mobile match for the ak120....it is HUUUUUUGE In comparison to the arrow....seemed like I had hard times in my jeans when putting it in my pocket. So true. The Vorg is nice but the Arrow is nicer.
> 
> The arrow just disappears...magic!


----------



## jmills8




----------



## jmills8

Every major Audio shop has a Mojo and a Oppo amp for sale in Hong Kong but NO shop has an Arrow.


----------



## whoever

The arrow is an exclusive b@@tch...


----------



## jmills8

We wait months others cry waiting a week.


----------



## wjblaney

But think of the delayed gratification!


----------



## MrBackup

Why is the Arrow better than the Mojo?


----------



## jmills8

mrbackup said:


> Why is the Arrow better than the Mojo?


Sound, size, battery,controls such as volume control and mute, bass boost, treble boost, able to boost just the sub bass, mid bass or full bass, weight, stays cool not heats up. Not from England.


----------



## whoever

Hahaha


----------



## bigbung

I just got myself a pair of LCD 2 rev 2 to pair with my Arrow 5P and have been completely blown by how sweet the bass sounds with this combination. I thought the bass sounded great with the hd650 but I have to say the LCD takes it to another level. The bass is so clean and impactful that I don't want to get it off my head once I start listening(I love my bass....) The 5P actually makes me dislike my other DAC/amp combo (Schiit Lyr 1 matched with vanilla Geek Pulse DAC) because of lack of bass impact. Of course the other DAC/Amp sounds more airy, clearer, refined with bigger soundstage etc etc as you would expect but the bass in the 5P is no match for them....WOW!


----------



## flinkenick

Glad to hear you're enjoying them, didn't think they'd have enough power to do it decently


----------



## jmills8

Temp rubber bands later I will tape velcro.


----------



## flinkenick

Looking good! The M looks identical to the P1


----------



## jmills8

It arrived. 5TX Bass Enhanced.


----------



## Andy Le

What is the current approx. wait time for the 5TX?


----------



## whoever

andy le said:


> What is the current approx. wait time for the 5TX?


 
 between 4 days and 8 months….unfortunatly there is no way to tell a better time window….


----------



## wjblaney

Depends if you're a new customer, an old customer with a new order, or an old customer re-ordering plus exchanging the old model (they get a discount). I'm the latter and have waited 5 months but others may wait 9 months or more. I've heard of new customers receiving their shipment in a week or two. It's gonna speed up for everybody, though, b/c the first 5TX was just shipped in Sept., if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## sluker

wjblaney said:


> Depends if you're a new customer, an old customer with a new order, or an old customer re-ordering plus exchanging the old model (they get a discount). I'm the latter and have waited 5 months but others may wait 9 months or more. I've heard of new customers receiving their shipment in a week or two. It's gonna speed up for everybody, though, b/c the first 5TX was just shipped in Sept., if I'm not mistaken.


 
 I ordered mine in Jan.
 Half a dozen emails to Robert in the last 3 months and still no reply.
 I still listen to my 4 but starting to get a bit impatient.
 By the way, has anyone noticed that the forum on headstage.com no longer exists?


----------



## zolom

Just managed to log onto the HEADSTAGE forum http://www.headstage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/5-Arrow-5G


----------



## tjdub

Does anybody know if the wait times got any better for the 5tx?


----------



## wjblaney

tjdub said:


> Does anybody know if the wait times got any better for the 5tx?


 
 Not me and I'd also like to ask everybody who is re-ordering (exchanging a older version for the 5TX) to please post here when you've gotten your new 5TX. So far as I know, only new customers are receiving theirs so far and it would raise my morale to know old customers are finally being serviced.


----------



## jmills8

I receieved two 5TX.


----------



## tjdub

How long did it take you to get them?


----------



## jmills8

tjdub said:


> How long did it take you to get them?


 Three months


----------



## sluker

jmills8 said:


> I receieved two 5TX.


Yes, But we're you reordering?


----------



## wjblaney

sluker said:


> Yes, But we're you reordering?


 
 Doesn't sound like it because he bought two. Just guessing...


----------



## jmills8




----------



## tjdub

That's a pretty good size portable stack


----------



## proedros

My *4G (N version)* is up for sale, look my FS threads
  
 cheers


----------



## jmills8




----------



## Mmet

jmills8 said:


>


 
 really nice


----------



## whoever

Anybody ever tried the arrow bass version with the iems ASG 2.5?? 
A friend just lend me a pair.
Never heard or felt so much bass....crazy thing, the ASG being already bassmonsters, well, it goes deeper....my knees are trembling ! But still, it's still clean...crazy! 

Vive le roi 5tx! 





(I need my H8 back, i'm mutating and drifting into a subland where there might be nooooo return) 
And universals after one and a half year of customs...I feel like having my ears molested.


----------



## jmills8

whoever said:


> Anybody ever tried the arrow bass version with the iems ASG 2.5??
> A friend just lend me a pair.
> Never heard or felt so much bass....crazy thing, the ASG being already bassmonsters, well, it goes deeper....my knees are trembling ! But still, it's still clean...crazy!
> 
> ...


----------



## Lopsy1

whoever said:


> Anybody ever tried the arrow bass version with the iems ASG 2.5??
> A friend just lend me a pair.
> Never heard or felt so much bass....crazy thing, the ASG being already bassmonsters, well, it goes deeper....my knees are trembling ! But still, it's still clean...crazy!
> 
> ...




AK100II+Arrow 5tx+ASG2.5

AK100II+Arrow+Noble K10U


----------



## tjdub

How is the dac on the the 5tx compared to other portable amp/dads?


----------



## wjblaney

Just sent Robert an email asking if any reorders have been shipped yet. Naturally, will feel extremely lucky if I simply get a reply!


----------



## tjdub

I emailed 3 weeks ago still nothing, please let us know if you do


----------



## sluker

I have emailed once a month since May. 
The last reply I got was in April saying it would be shipped in May.


----------



## tjdub

And you still haven't got anything @Sluker?


----------



## wjblaney

I heard right back from him today. Said he had computer problems that are apparently fixed and he's starting to get the shipments moving again. Fingers crossed.


----------



## sluker

tjdub said:


> And you still haven't got anything @Sluker?


 

 Not a word.
 The last two times were similar but didn't take as long.
 No tracking, no response and one day it just arrived in the mail.


----------



## tjdub

He emailed me to , he said he's almost done with a mother batch, fingers crossed.


----------



## wjblaney

sluker said:


> Not a word.
> The last two times were similar but didn't take as long.
> No tracking, no response and one day it just arrived in the mail.


 
 Have you been sending your email to mail@headstage.com?


----------



## sluker

wjblaney said:


> Have you been sending your email to mail@headstage.com?


 

 Yep
 Got a reply today.
 Still no commitment on when he will start send upgrades.


----------



## Drsparis

tjdub said:


> He emailed me to , he said he's almost done with a mother batch, fingers crossed.


 
 is that a autocorrect typo? "Another batch" ? or really " A mother batch" ... Hoping for the later a year of waiting is coming up, but hey, I'm also an infinity 2.0 backer so I'm used to waiting.... about 2 years waiting now..........


----------



## wjblaney

drsparis said:


> is that a autocorrect typo? "Another batch" ? or really " A mother batch" ... Hoping for the later a year of waiting is coming up, but hey, I'm also an infinity 2.0 backer so I'm used to waiting.... about 2 years waiting now..........


 
 OMG. I told Robert he should ship his new customers first. If I had anything to say about it, I'd ask to have you sent one before me. NOT before anyone else. I can enjoy the old model as much as anyone, eh Drsparis?


----------



## tjdub

Sorry, damn auto-correct.I meant to say a nother batch


----------



## phonomat

tjdub said:


> Sorry, damn auto-correct.I meant to say a nother batch




I kinda liked the sound of it. "Mother batch" ...


----------



## ANDEROAN

x2, I liked the mother batch also, the mother of all batches! I want one,


----------



## Drsparis

wjblaney said:


> OMG. I told Robert he should ship his new customers first. If I had anything to say about it, I'd ask to have you sent one before me. NOT before anyone else. I can enjoy the old model as much as anyone, eh Drsparis?


 
 To my defence I still have a 3G ( I am a upgrade customer) but thanks haha. It will be a while for me to make another long term investment like these


----------



## wjblaney

drsparis said:


> To my defence I still have a 3G ( I am a upgrade customer) but thanks haha. It will be a while for me to make another long term investment like these


 
 Robert will find a way!!!


----------



## Kerouac

Recently I purchased zolom's 5P and stacked it up with my X5.
 Wow, what a great little amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
 All my iems scaled up nicely, but the 1plus2 (treble & bass on I, freq on M) scaled up in such a way that I almost cound't believe my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've never heard them like this (so 3D and dynamic) before and just can't stop listening to them these days...


----------



## zolom

Enjoy
  
 By the way, I found it impossible to distinguish the sound quality between the 5P and the (bassy) 5TX. [rig: LG G4 with/without Viper4Android and Shure SE846 IEMs]


----------



## jmills8

The 5TX non bass hands down has a much open sound. Its mids and Treble are much more the focus. I can easily tell this version from the 5P. I find the 5TX bass version just slightly more open than the 5P. I enjoy the 5P and 5TX bass version and I plan to get the 5TX non bass version for my Cowon dap which pounds the bass.


----------



## wjblaney

kerouac said:


> Recently I purchased zolom's 5P and stacked it up with my X5.
> Wow, what a great little amp!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry, I'm a little slow on the uptake. By stacked it's obvious you connect the two amps through which one's input and which one's output? Where did you get the connector? (I have one I use to connect amp to player). What did you mean by X5? Typo for 5X? And you didn't mean 5TX did you? So do you use the controls (volume, mid, trble, bass) intermittently or randomly? So you were never in line for the 5TX and ordered the 5P recently? How long did it take to get it?


----------



## jmills8

wjblaney said:


> Sorry, I'm a little slow on the uptake. By stacked it's obvious you connect the two amps through which one's input and which one's output? Where did you get the connector? (I have one I use to connect amp to player). What did you mean by X5? Typo for 5X? And you didn't mean 5TX did you? So do you use the controls (volume, mid, trble, bass) intermittently or randomly? So you were never in line for the 5TX and ordered the 5P recently? How long did it take to get it?


 He bought a second hand 5P.


----------



## Kerouac

wjblaney said:


> Sorry, I'm a little slow on the uptake. By stacked it's obvious you connect the two amps through which one's input and which one's output? Where did you get the connector? (I have one I use to connect amp to player). What did you mean by X5? Typo for 5X? And you didn't mean 5TX did you? So do you use the controls (volume, mid, trble, bass) intermittently or randomly? So you were never in line for the 5TX and ordered the 5P recently? How long did it take to get it?


 
  
 X5 = FiiO X5 (dap)
 Connector = Crystal Piccolino, which I picked up in the HF for sale/trade section
 I use X5 line out => 5P which means you skip the amp part of the X5 (no double amping that way)
 I use different 5P settings for different iems/headphones, this setting was for the Tralucent 1plus2
 As jmills8 mentioned above, this was a used (zolom's) one => no waiting line to get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers!


----------



## zolom

When deciding to purchase the 5TX my older 5P was meant to be given to my son, but he declined the offer. So I sold it.
 Both 5P and 5TX are GREAT. My old ears could not distinctly define a significant difference between them.
  
 Both are truly recommended, found them superior to the RSA Shadow and significantly overruling several FiiO amps/dacs I had in the past.
  
 I am using the Shure SE846 IEMs which contributes to the overall stage.


----------



## Kerouac

Quote:


zolom said:


> When deciding to purchase the 5TX my older 5P was meant to be given to my son, but he declined the offer. So I sold it.
> Both 5P and 5TX are GREAT. My old ears could not distinctly define a significant difference between them.
> 
> Both are truly recommended, found them superior to the RSA Shadow and significantly overruling several FiiO amps/dacs I had in the past.
> ...


 
  
 Well then, I guess I have to be thankfull that your son wasn't that interested in it afterall 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I had a chance to try flinkenick's 5P just before yours appeared in the classifieds, so I already knew how good it was...
  
 Had a Pico Power in the past, which also had a very clean and impressive output.
 But it didn't have treble/bass switches and changing the 9V batteries always was a hassle imo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've tried somebody else's SE846 (with blue filters) sometimes and liked it very much at that time


----------



## wjblaney

kerouac said:


> X5 = FiiO X5 (dap)
> Connector = Crystal Piccolino, which I picked up in the HF for sale/trade section
> I use X5 line out => 5P which means you skip the amp part of the X5 (no double amping that way)
> I use different 5P settings for different iems/headphones, this setting was for the Tralucent 1plus2
> ...


 
  You obviously know your **** and I'll refer to this post when I get my 5TX. But you're basically still just using a player (a Digital Audio Player) and the 5P amp, eh? And, of course, high end headphones. My player is JRiver Media Center which I bought for $50 and downloaded to my Lenovo Win 7. I listen to it through Marshall Monitors. It blows my mind but I wouldn't mind 2 blows.


----------



## Kerouac

> You obviously know your **** and I'll refer to this post when I get my 5TX. But you're basically still just using a player (a Digital Audio Player) and the 5P amp, eh? And, of course, high end headphones. My player is JRiver Media Center which I bought for $50 and downloaded to my Lenovo Win 7. I listen to it through Marshall Monitors. It blows my mind but I wouldn't mind 2 blows.


 
  
 Yes, the X5 is a Digital Audio Player. But different players have different DACs inside and that also contributes to the sound quality that you'll get in the end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 When you receive your 5TX, it'll probably blow you away


----------



## lmfboy01

Just update, lovin' the DAC, paired to my phone, EXCELLENT!


----------



## wjblaney

Got an email from Robert asking to confirm which 5TX model I wanted. Been checking my mailbox closely for the 5 days or so.


----------



## DJBaila

Hi guys, I have the Headstage Arrow 5TX and I love it!!!, I been using it paired with my AK Jr. with out any problems. But recently I acquired a LG V10 smartphone with a ESS Sabre DAC and when I connect the phone to the 5TX using a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable I get static noise.
 Is there any way I can get rid of the static noise??
 Thanks!


----------



## Mmet

djbaila said:


> Hi guys, I have the Headstage Arrow 5TX and I love it!!!, I been using it paired with my AK Jr. with out any problems. But recently I acquired a LG V10 smartphone with a ESS Sabre DAC and when I connect the phone to the 5TX using a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable I get static noise.
> Is there any way I can get rid of the static noise??
> Thanks!



Try using it with airplane mode..may be this help


----------



## flinkenick

Yes it's from the phone, airplane mode will eliminate that. Even when I have my phone in my other jacket pocket I get that sometimes - it needs to keep a safe distance 

Glad you're enjoying it!


----------



## DJBaila

mmet said:


> Try using it with airplane mode..may be this help


 
  
  


flinkenick said:


> Yes it's from the phone, airplane mode will eliminate that. Even when I have my phone in my other jacket pocket I get that sometimes - it needs to keep a safe distance
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks guys! , I'll try that.


----------



## wjblaney

djbaila said:


> Hi guys, I have the Headstage Arrow 5TX and I love it!!!, I been using it paired with my AK Jr. with out any problems. But recently I acquired a LG V10 smartphone with a ESS Sabre DAC and when I connect the phone to the 5TX using a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable I get static noise.
> Is there any way I can get rid of the static noise??
> Thanks!


 
 Please confirm you are sending back an older headstage arrow to Robert in exchange. Thanks.


----------



## DJBaila

wjblaney said:


> Please confirm you are sending back an older headstage arrow to Robert in exchange. Thanks.


 
 No, I bought it used (only used for 5 Hrs) here on the forum.


----------



## proedros

my 4G arrow has to go , it is the N(eutral) version.

 Clean, airy , transparent - great amp but it sees no use now that i got my ZX2

 Suitable for anyone wanting something cheaper than the 5G version.

 check my FS , if interested


----------



## sluker

Wow this thread certainly died.
 I wonder if this is a bad sign? it certainly does not seem like anyone is receiving their amps in the last few weeks.
 I know I haven't heard a peep from Robert since the non-committal email last month.


----------



## wjblaney

I got three emails from him in Dec. The first to confirm which version I want. the second to tell me where to send my old version back to and the last, on Dec 19 to let me know I didn't have to send it back for I got the new one. No confirmation when the new one will be sent and nothing since.


----------



## Pacman123

I ordered my 5TX Enhanced Boost at the end of November and Robert said that it would ship sometime in December. Obviously wishful thinking... 
  
 His website now says new orders shipping in January. 
  
 I hope it ships soon as I have already been waiting over a month for my new order.


----------



## jmills8

pacman123 said:


> I ordered my 5TX Enhanced Boost at the end of November and Robert said that it would ship sometime in December. Obviously wishful thinking...
> 
> His website now says new orders shipping in January.
> 
> I hope it ships soon as I have already been waiting over a month for my new order.


 Waiting myself.


----------



## Pacman123

When did you order yours Jmills?


----------



## jmills8

pacman123 said:


> When did you order yours Jmills?


Ordered 2 like 5 or more months ago and got one of them.


----------



## Rayzilla

jmills8 said:


> Ordered 2 like 5 or more months ago and got one of them.



Wasn't it longer ago than that?


----------



## jmills8

rayzilla said:


> Wasn't it longer ago than that?


true and I emailed him yesterday.


----------



## tjdub

I canceled mine, its an ok amp with really cool features but the wait and bad customer service was a no go for me


----------



## sluker

I wonder if I can still get my money back?
 It has officially been more then a year!!!
 This is ridiculous.


----------



## tjdub

You should, I would email him and ask for a refund. I got a refund with in a few days of requesting it


----------



## dragnet32

Hey, the 5TX is one great amp, you guys are making a mistake canceling your order and asking for refund.  The amp is so good that I am saving money to buy a second 5TX for future use.  I know it is so hard to wait.  I had to wait each time I ordered amps from Robert since 2010.  I have had 2G, 4G, now have a 5T and a 5TX.  The 5TX is the best.  It took me 9 or 10 months to get the 5TX.  But he was in "research mode" during that period.  I think he is in more of a "production" mode now.  I have the 5TX normal bass. (Only a total bass head might want the extended bass model). The normal bass model has more than enough bass, but I particularly like the quality of the bass.  It has a wonderful sound stage - wide and deep.  Instruments and vocals have very good "presence", they sound so close.  Very good resolution - very clear, sparkling sound.  Very smooth.    In past, I have had a JDS Labs C-421 and a PICO power and they don't even come close to this amp, in my set up.  I have not used  the dac part of the amp as I don't need it.  I am tremendously impressed with the amp.  Everyone will get their amp and the wait will be worth it!


----------



## jmills8

I was told he is making some adustments to get the units out.


----------



## Sound Eq

jmills8 said:


> I was told he is making some adustments to get the units out.


 
 what kind of adjustments 
  
 i love his 5tx and i will not sell it unless he releases a newer device


----------



## Jupiterknight

First of all I sincerely hope that those who are still waiting and invested a lot of money into the 5TX will receive their units very soon!
  
 I know and totally understand that It is so frustrating for most consumer to wait this long with a very undefined time delivery schedule that apparently keeps changing and who gets their unit seems rather random.  Something that Robert the (slow) Arrow, certainly needs to improve on this combined with better communication skills with his customers!  
  
 That he may be a great and sympathetic person in real life, unfortunately doesn't count very much when it comes down to satisfying his customers that up front pretty much invested $399 for a new development/profit more than a reasonable timed delivery...
  
 That's one side of the whole story and all in my opinion, others will disagree and defend how it is working out..
  
 The other side is that I have a Headstage Arrow 5TX (Enhanced Bass)  in my possession for a few weeks.  I have previously owned the 3G and 4G version, although in this time of age of audio gear, it feels like a long time ago!  
  
 I will right at this moment say that the 5TX is an improvement as a portable amplifier vs. the previous models,  although not quite sure that $399 price tag justifies it! But again that is very subjective and very much related to the fact that the value of $100 is different from person to person! If anyone disagree with  this, please let me know through a PM and we will take the discussion from there!
  
 Now, the amplifier section when used as a portable amplifier is IMO very good! Out of memory, better than the 3G and 4G, and in my little notebook it means more neutral, lesser sound coloration than previous models. Pretty much what I would define as a curtain is removed from the sound source and probably related to the newer AD8620 opamp in use. 
  
 The features are quite good. The treble and boost allows, changing any given IEM/Headphone to become something else, without messing negatively with the dynamic range of most musical tracks that contrary using software EQ can do..
  
 The Dac feature, is there, recognized immediate by the PC's/laptops I have tested it out with. It's a PCM270x Dac chip, and it will play 24/192 high resolution albums, but down sampled to 16/48, so not the real stuff if anyone is concerned!  
  
 Sound quality of the Headstage Arrow 5TF as a DAC is decent, mainly due to the amplifier section, but there are many other more cheaper options out there that sounds similar or even better!
  
 So overall, the Headstage Arrow 5TF is IMO unique because of it's size/weight and as a pure amplifier, if you like a neutral/revealing sound signature, still (relative) above many others $40-200 portable amplifiers..
  
 My major concern for other people who will have an interest in the Arrow Headstage 5TF.. Is the price tag and the very flexible delivery time 
    
  
  
 ,


----------



## flinkenick

I use my Arrow with the P1, and while I enjoy the bass boost is enjoyable I find it's greatest advantage is of a more technical nature; it widens the stage and improves resolution. I'm not sure a $200-$300 amp would give the same advantage.

But of course value is personal and might depend on matching, to each their own opinion of course


----------



## Kerouac

dragnet32 said:


> In past, I have had a JDS Labs C-421 *and a PICO power* and they don't even come close to this amp, in my set up.


 
  
 Atm I have the Arrow 5P (which should almost sound the same as the 5TX as I've read) and I had the Pico Power in the past.
 Imo the Pico had a very good and wonderfull clean sound signature, but it lacked treble and bass boosts (which is so much fun to play with) and changing the 9V batteries of it was a real pita => sold it after a few months.
  
 I have the 5P mainly stacked up with my FiiO X5 (classic) and I'm really impressed (listening right now) and happy with this combination


----------



## vapman

Nobody here has an extended bass they want to trade for a normal bass 5TX, do they?

I love this amp so much  but I can't get enough basshead, i'm a bass addict...

If nobody wants to swap I swear I'm just ordering another an waiting for that before I sell mine.


----------



## Sound Eq

i really hope soon we will see the same amp with its great bass and trebele capabilities to drive planars, this 5tx is simply amazing


----------



## vapman

sound eq said:


> i really hope soon we will see the same amp with its great bass and trebele capabilities to drive planars, this 5tx is simply amazing




I honestly think it is quite similar to a project polaris!

edit: except with TONS more bass!! my SZ2000 never sounded so good i think than with the 5TX! i am surprised people said it didn't have power for on ears because it's driving the bass on my SZ2000 beautifully. 

if i turn it up to higher gain it even drives my HE-400 happily


----------



## whoever

Hate to do this...but have to gear down!
http://www.head-fi.org/t/795945/headstage-arrow-5tx-bass-version-in-eu


----------



## zolom

Hey guys, anything new?
  
 This forum looks deserted
  
 Pity for such a good amp/dac.


----------



## Pacman123

My 5TX should be shipping this week.


----------



## vapman

zolom said:


> Hey guys, anything new?
> 
> This forum looks deserted
> 
> Pity for such a good amp/dac.




Agreed. Dunno though, I think everyone who has one is too busy going everywhere with it to bother posting 

I just love having all this bass anywhere I go. It sounds so damn good. It's actually the first portable amp I bought (the normal bass version) and then I "upgraded" to the extra bass boost.

As an addicted basshead it is certainly capable of pushing good sub bass


----------



## Pacman123

I currently have the E12A and it is good, but way to large and heavy for my needs. Its feels like a solid chunk of aluminum in my pocket.
  
 Im excited for the size, power and portability of the 5TX.
  
 Its my 5TX and I want it now!


----------



## ryu2012

zolom said:


> Hey guys, anything new?
> 
> This forum looks deserted
> 
> Pity for such a good amp/dac.


 
 It's nothing.
 It has not been shipped.
 It was after one year since the order.


----------



## zolom

ryu2012 said:


> It's nothing.
> It has not been shipped.
> It was after one year since the order.


 

 Wow, that must hurt!


----------



## Pacman123

Just received my 5tx today and it is amazing. 

I knew it was going to be small but I couldn't believe it's that small. Compared to the E12a it's amazingly small and powerful. 

The frequency switch is awesome and fun to play with. The bass boost on 2 is insanely powerful, I thought I knew bass before but I was wrong. This think rocks. Well worth the wait.


----------



## whoever

Damn it I miss it already


----------



## Sound Eq

whatever robert will release I will buy, his tiny t5x is simply dropping awes from anyone who i invited to try 
  
 what a dam great amp, really amazing


----------



## vapman

The guy I sold my spare 5TX (the normal bass boost one) to uses it only with his HD700. i never would have thought to use an arrow for big headphones like that but he says it sounds awesome


----------



## Kerouac

vapman said:


> The guy I sold my spare 5TX (the normal bass boost one) to uses it only with his HD700. i never would have thought to use an arrow for big headphones like that but he says it sounds awesome


 

 I totally agree with that guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Most of the time I listen with iems, but sometimes I also listen with my X5+5P (which should almost sound the same as the 5TX) and my HD700 (or Grado PS500) and that sounds awesome indeed


----------



## vapman

kerouac said:


> I totally agree with that guy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha! for some reason i had pictured the Arrow as a amp for IEMs mainly but i've definitely seen it can power bigger phones no problem.
  I haven't tried with my 250 ohm DT990 yet... i should do that today. That's the only headphone of mine I haven't tried with the 5TX


----------



## Pacman123

The 5TX and 2.5s are a serious combination. I finally know what it feels like to have two 12's in my ears 
  
 The bass boost on the enhanced is insanely strong on II, but still crystal clear. Its something to experience.


----------



## Kerouac

I always forget that these amps must be a ''bassheads dream come true'' with bass boost on II 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Listening myself atm with X5 and Arrow 5P to a Rhapsodio RDB Mk4 (1 dynamic driver + 4 BA's) with bass (and treble) boost on I and that's already enough for me.
 Bass boost on II is just too much for my taste, but I can understand that some of you like it that way


----------



## vapman

It works for when I need a bass fix and can't get home.


----------



## jmills8

Just arrived from the oven.


----------



## Kerouac

jmills8 said:


> Just arrived from the oven.


 
  
 Congrats man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now you have 4 (I thought you already had 3) Headstage Arrows?
 Btw, let me guess, this one is the 5TX with extra bass?


----------



## jmills8

kerouac said:


> Congrats man!
> 
> Now you have 4 (I thought you already had 3) Headstage Arrows?
> Btw, let me guess, this one is the 5TX with extra bass?


Im set but this one belongs to my buddy.


----------



## jmills8

BTW its Non Bass version.


----------



## lmfboy01




----------



## jmills8

lmfboy01 said:


>


Nice, Cowon D?


----------



## Sound Eq

jmills8 said:


> Nice, Cowon D?


 
 same exact setup  like me


----------



## jmills8

sound eq said:


> same exact setup  like me


 me too but what sort of cable are you using to connect the D to the Arrow? I have an ALO Hybrid cable which does improve the sound.


----------



## Sound Eq

jmills8 said:


> me too but what sort of cable are you using to connect the D to the Arrow? I have an ALO Hybrid cable which does improve the sound.


 
 i am using the tiny cable that came with the 5tx
  
 i did not experiment with 3.5 cables that much
  
 do u hear better sq using the alo cable and in what way


----------



## jmills8

sound eq said:


> i am the tiny cable that came with the 5tx
> 
> i did not experiment with 3.5 cables that much
> 
> do u hear better sq using the alo cable and in what way


I demoed various,eyes closed ears open and yes some really improved the over all sound.


----------



## flinkenick

I highly recommend upgrade cables for both the interconnect and iem.


----------



## Pacman123

Those setups look great.
  
 What length interconnect is best for the 5TX-PD stacked with velcro?


----------



## jmills8

pacman123 said:


> Those setups look great.
> 
> What length interconnect is best for the 5TX-PD stacked with velcro?


ALO Reference Silver/Copper . The cables are seperate Copper and Silver.


----------



## Pacman123

Do you like the vertical 3.5mm to 3.5mm ? Or would a right angle work better?
  
 Why do copper silver on the IC if your cable is all silver?


----------



## jmills8

pacman123 said:


> Do you like the vertical 3.5mm to 3.5mm ? Or would a right angle work better?
> 
> Why do copper silver on the IC if your cable is all silver?


I perfer right angle but I demoed this one and it sounded the best so I went with it. It has individual Silver cable and Copper cables.


----------



## jmills8




----------



## Kerouac

Different interconnects almost can make the same difference in sq as upgrade cables imo (so if you don't believe in cables already, please don't start on interconnects 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
 Here I tested 4 different ones (a long time ago) between DX90 and a Pico Power.

 My (silver/gold) Crystal Piccolino IC came out as winner to my ears easily at that time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Nowadays I mainly use it between my X5 and Arrow 5P => love this stack!!!


----------



## jmills8

kerouac said:


> Different interconnects almost can make the same difference in sq as upgrade cables imo (so if you don't believe in cables already, please don't start on interconnects  )
> 
> Here I tested 4 different ones (a long time ago) between DX90 and a Pico Power.
> 
> ...


 Nice but to be clear your best sound is neutral or balanced? What if one is after hard hitting bass that also goes deep? You are not after bass right (basshead)?


----------



## Kerouac

jmills8 said:


> Nice but to be clear your best sound is neutral or balanced? What if one is after hard hitting bass that also goes deep? You are not after bass right (basshead)?


 
  
 Sorry if I don't understand, but can't neutral be balanced at the same time?
  
 I like bass a lot, but don't consider myself a basshead => have the bassboost on my 5P almost always on I instead of II
 Clear (not muddy) sound is also an important factor to me, as is soundstage => all do very well with the Crystal Picolino imo
  
 Hope this helps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Btw, what interconnect is yours?


----------



## jmills8

kerouac said:


> Sorry if I don't understand, but can't neutral be balanced at the same time?
> 
> I like bass a lot, but don't consider myself a basshead => have the bassboost on my 5P almost always on I instead of II
> Clear (not muddy) sound is also an important factor to me, as is soundstage => all do very well with the Crystal Picolino imo
> ...


 ALO Reference Silver cable and seperate Copper cable. I tried a Silver/Gold cable before but to me it opened the sound stage but it removed the bass punch. Yes I dont want anything muddy.


----------



## jmills8

This one really opens up the sound stage.


----------



## wjblaney

kerouac said:


> Different interconnects almost can make the same difference in sq as upgrade cables imo (so if you don't believe in cables already, please don't start on interconnects
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hi, all. Just received my 5TX 6.5 months after I paid for it. I know, congrats, blah, blah, blah.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I am ******* basically lost. That is, I had a 4G before and it's an easy rig to set up. I use my computer to store my flac files for JRiver Media Center and about all I know what to do is charge the amp using the USB port and plug in my Marshall Monitors to the amp and there's the first problem. I have this single cord/wire to connect the amp to the HP jack on the computer. That's, like, the first problem. He never sent one for the 4g nor the 5TX, I don't know what they're called, where to get one and it may be the reason that I have to twiddle with it to get both the left and right channels working. I don't know, maybe it was the 4g. I don't care, I just want to hook up my 5tX
  
*Kerouac*, you seem such a brilliant music tech I'm askin' for your help. Nuthin' to do with whatever reason it was you posted it for, lol.  Anyway, the charger is plugged in and I'm getting the full-on green light. Does that mean it's fully charged? But I got that wire connected from the amp to my computers HP's jack and no sound. Also, the vol switch is a total mystery to me: A digital volume control with 65-steps??? What is that? I can see you push it in and out and turn it a bit either way. That's all I know. I wish there was a user guide but Robert being Robert that's worthy of my the-one-thing-I-want-I-before-I-die list. I'm also scratching my head about all the other switches but I just want to hear the thing.
  
God, I'd appreciate anybody's help.


----------



## flinkenick

Um are you connecting the Arrow to your computer with a 3.5mm trs HP jack? You need to used the micro usb, then it will use the Arrow's dac. The power switch just relates to whether it should get its power from itself (M)obile, the Pc (P), or the dac should be switched off so it just charges and doesnt connect to the computer. The other switches are just for treble or bass, with the freq bass determining in which bass frequency it should be boosted.


----------



## wjblaney

flinkenick said:


> Um are you connecting the Arrow to your computer with a 3.5mm trs HP jack? You need to used the micro usb, then it will use the Arrow's dac. The power switch just relates to whether it should get its power from itself (M)obile, the Pc (P), or the dac should be switched off so it just charges and doesnt connect to the computer. The other switches are just for treble or bass, with the freq bass determining in which bass frequency it should be boosted.


 
 Yes, Robert provided a jack with two mico usb ports, which I have no idea what it's used for. And he also included a large jack with a small usb port on one end that fits almost all the way into the amp. The other end of the jack fits perfectly into my computer's 3.0 usb port and when I completed the connection, the pwr O lite lite blinked a couple of times and now it's steady green. So it's green on O, red and yellow on I, I guess full-on red on A. hahaha. What does that mean? Let me know when it's fully charged? The 4g didn't have one. What does OIA stand for over the pwr switch? The DAC has been switched off the whole time. I know you mean the DAC has to be switched off the whole time it's charging but it can still get it's charge from the PC, right? And the 4g allowed charging and playing simultaneously. That's what I was trying to do with the 5TX. So I've disconnected the input cord that connects to my HP jack and I'm waiting for what I should do next.


----------



## flinkenick

-2 micro usb ports is to connect with a smartphone
 -The colors shouldn't change based on the different settings I think, I don't really understand that part. 
 -01A is power off, on or automatic on when it gets a signal (so leave it on A)
 -Well if the dac has been switched off the whole time, doesn't that explain why you can't hear anything..? You can charge and play at the same time. Put the dac on (P) and power on (A).


----------



## wjblaney

flinkenick said:


> -2 micro usb ports is to connect with a smartphone
> -The colors shouldn't change based on the different settings I think, I don't really understand that part.
> -01A is power off, on or automatic on when it gets a signal (so leave it on A)
> -Well if the dac has been switched off the whole time, doesn't that explain why you can't hear anything..? You can charge and play at the same time. Put the dac on (P) and power on (A).


 
 Oh, God, I appreciate that so ******* much.
  
 Livin' in Amsterdam, eh? God, I love the Dutch. I swear to God. So fun to be around.Thanks, man. I hope you see the repo I tried to give you. I clicked on some damn button about 6 times that said 'Was this helpful?' Duh. I'm from California and living in Thailand. BTW.


----------



## flinkenick

No problem buddy. Yeah Dutch are alright I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If we're handing out compliments; I lived in Berkeley for 7 months, if I could ever go back to Cali I wouldn't think twice man. And living in Thailand, that must be the dream man, it's my favourite holiday location so far. Although from what I hear it's hard to mix in with the locals.


----------



## wjblaney

flinkenick said:


> No problem buddy. Yeah Dutch are alright I guess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The locals can be real hard cases in the small towns, where there are few tourists/whites (especially). I had to do some time teaching English to locals for 6 months in a town with one stoplight. I lived by myself and walked every day to school and back and to the gym. You see the same dudes and every day the same ******* unbelievable dark stare-downs. Can't forget it. Luckily got to a bigger city that was used to Westerners and the only hard cases were the teenagers who would figure the sight of 3 or 4 of them (and however many more that will come out of the woodwork if there is an altercation) ought to put the fear of god-almighty **** in you every time you see just one of them (which I had to put up with every night at the gym). I taught grades 9-12 and a student actually was kicked to death on campus, in a classroom, during lunch. I learned two things from teaching there: 1) if it comes to a fight (it never did for me), get one of them on the ground. They are very thin with long legs. You get them on the ground and your size will let you kill one of them, if need be. That'll put the others off (the cops, wherever they're at, will come down on the side of the Westerners) 2) when it comes to interactions, like at the gyms, you just got to learn to put a big smile on your face and do it often. That attitude will keep you out of trouble.
  
 Now, when it comes to the big cities (I'm only really familiar with the 3 biggest-Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai) you're more liable to get into face-offs with the other Westerners who don't live there permanently, like backpackers and rowdy Brits, Aussies and Kiwis: not the rich touristy types. I live in Chiang Mai and it really couldn't be more peaceful, given the one drawback that all Westerners face: speaking the language. It just so ******* difficult. But it's a huge tourist town for Chinese (who all speak English), backpackers (peaceful type), expats like myself and your ordinary tourists. There is, no ****, hundreds of apts. and condos to cater to the expat crowd (it's unbelievably cheap, by all standards, in Thailand). So most of us stay in these huge multi-story condo buildings with all the amenities and nearby supermarkets. The Thais are all genuinely friendly because 1) tourism is their livelihood, including the most beautiful women who are not your standard whores by any means: I don't know about all, but they can be really affectionate. Swear to God, it's a disease: these expats 'lose their virginity' and marry these whores. It's amazing seeing these 70-year-olds living with women a quarter of their age. I don' know if learning the language is a great big advantage, in the log run, either. Then you're faced with the local culture and, my God, it's a shock.
  
 Lot of other attractions here also: from street and mountain biking to rock climbing or just hanging out at the gym. The bars all cater to the backpack and expat crowd but I don't drink. It's a pretty drab scene to me 'cuz there are no good live music venues. But I like the physical activity of the place and, of course, the beautiful whores, who all speak English.
  
 Take care man.


----------



## wjblaney

wjblaney said:


> Oh, God, I appreciate that so ******* much.
> 
> Livin' in Amsterdam, eh? God, I love the Dutch. I swear to God. So fun to be around.Thanks, man. I hope you see the repo I tried to give you. I clicked on some damn button about 6 times that said 'Was this helpful?' Duh. I'm from California and living in Thailand. BTW.


 
 One more thing: the volume switch. How does it work?


----------



## jmills8

wjblaney said:


> One more thing: the volume switch. How does it work? :confused_face(1):


It raises the volume one way and lowers it the other way.  try pushing it down.


----------



## wjblaney

There must be minimum amount of time to get the battery charged the first time, right?


----------



## jmills8

wjblaney said:


> There must be minimum amount of time to get the battery charged the first time, right?


just use it.


----------



## Kerouac

> Originally Posted by *wjblaney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Hi, all. Just received my 5TX 6.5 months after I paid for it. I know, congrats, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> 
> ...
 
  
 Well congrats anyway (including the blah,blah,blahs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) with your new 5TX
  
 Yep I'm brilliant indeed, but not on the tech side of things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 To your luck @flinkenick came to the rescue as a ''one man helpdesk'' => I think he deserves a promotion and an extra Christmas financial bonus based on all his answers!
  
 Btw, Thailand is great imo, I've been there 3 times (between 1995-2005) on backpack holidays. Mainly searching for nice beaches/islands. Loved places like Koh Samui, Koh Phi Phi, Krabi etc.
 Great memories 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Enjoy your 5TX (I'm sure you will)


----------



## flinkenick

wjblaney said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds like a tough time as well though man, some stuff was pretty dark. Post a message once a month so we know you're still alive


----------



## wjblaney

kerouac said:


> Well congrats anyway (including the blah,blah,blahs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, @flinkenick came to the rescue. Finally listening to it right now. Everything will be good once I get a new male to male 3.5mm audio cable. (Either one or neither left or right channel plays until I twaddle with it for about 5 minutes). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 Sorry about the pretty macabre description of inland Thailand. Haven't been to the beaches or I'm sure my whole attitude would be readjusted. Then again, I did say I love Chiang Mai.


----------



## wjblaney

flinkenick said:


> Sounds like a tough time as well though man, some stuff was pretty dark. Post a message once a month so we know you're still alive de


 
 Sorry, my post was definitely too macabre. Kerouac nailed it (above). The beaches are a whole 'nother thing. I just haven't got down there yet. From what I hear they're definitely hip with moon dances, raves and a ton of beautiful babes on the beaches, water and bars. Get Kerouac to give you the story of the 'other side' of life here. I sure wouldn't want to put you off of a trip of a lifetime.


----------



## wjblaney

flinkenick said:


> -2 micro usb ports is to connect with a smartphone
> -The colors shouldn't change based on the different settings I think, I don't really understand that part.
> -01A is power off, on or automatic on when it gets a signal (so leave it on A)
> -Well if the dac has been switched off the whole time, doesn't that explain why you can't hear anything..? You can charge and play at the same time. Put the dac on (P) and power on (A).


 
 Figured out a couple of more things: amp's DAC has to be off to charge and play at the same time (PWR on A). Then the computer's internal DAC kicks in. Secondly, you can run on the amp's DAC with the DAC set to P and USB cable disconnected. The sound from both DAC's seems equally good. Wonder what an external DAC would add to the mix and how I can improve the sound. How do you have your rig set up? (hopes it's not too technical 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## vapman

Arrow's built in DAC is just ok. gets the job done. it sounds a lot better with external DAC... provided the external DAC is better quality of course.


----------



## flinkenick

wjblaney said:


> Figured out a couple of more things: amp's DAC has to be off to charge and play at the same time (PWR on A). Then the computer's internal DAC kicks in. Secondly, you can run on the amp's DAC with the DAC set to P and USB cable disconnected. The sound from both DAC's seems equally good. Wonder what an external DAC would add to the mix and how I can improve the sound. How do you have your rig set up? (hopes it's not too technical
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well actually, with power on A you are still using the Arrow's dac. 'A' just means the Arrow turns on automatically when it gets a signal. 
  
 If its connected to the computer via micro usb and you're hearing music, it is per definition via the arrrow's dac; if not you would need a regular cable after the dac to connect to an amp. So you can switch the Arrow's dac off by setting it on 'O' in the dac switch, and then it will charge but not play music. For listening to music via the pc it should be on 'P' so it can charge and play music at the same time.
  
 Hope this is clear 
  
 ps. I've been to Thailand myself, had an excellent time so no worries there. But I also heard from a friend who lived there for a year, it's very different actually living there as a foreigner. Only interesting to hear the other side


----------



## vapman

Decided to put my Extra Bass 5TX up for sale. Hope I won't regret it too much, but could use the money... on more gear 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/800530/headstage-arrow-5tx-extra-bass-version-price-is-shipped


----------



## wjblaney

How's everybody else like their 5TX so far, except for vapman? (specify basshead or nomal). Curious about those who find the sound extremely enhanced through an external DAC and would like a recommendation w/o going thru the DAC thread...


----------



## Pacman123

I have the enhanced bass 5tx and I love it. 

Portability is amazing, it's super thin and light for how much power it has. Bass boost is great on 2 with asg 2.5. I also like that it works as a standalone dac when I want to listen directly off my computer at work. 

If you didn't have to wait a month or more for it I would recommend it to everyone. Otherwise it seems like the MOJO is the next best choice if you can't wait.


----------



## vapman

wjblaney said:


> How's everybody else like their 5TX so far, except for vapman? (specify basshead or nomal). Curious about those who find the sound extremely enhanced through an external DAC and would like a recommendation w/o going thru the DAC thread...


 

 I upgraded to a Mojo which is better in terms of flexibility but the 5TX is no contest a winner on portability and battery. I really do miss it. The form factor was perfect and the sound was wonderful.
  
 The amp quality of the 5TX was slightly better than the Mojo though. It is really easy to suddenly mute too.
  
 If you have a 5TX and you're happy with it, keep it. But yes, when I had my 5TX and I used it at home, I would use it with an AK4396 DAC or an ODAC and the sound was _drastically_ improved. I wish I had got the chance to stack the 5TX and Mojo together. Mojo as a DAC and 5TX as an amp would probably be good as it gets.


----------



## wjblaney

pacman123 said:


> I have the enhanced bass 5tx and I love it.
> 
> Portability is amazing, it's super thin and light for how much power it has. Bass boost is great on 2 with asg 2.5. I also like that it works as a standalone dac when I want to listen directly off my computer at work.
> 
> If you didn't have to wait a month or more for it I would recommend it to everyone. Otherwise it seems like the MOJO is the next best choice if you can't wait.


 
 Did you notice Vapman, in his post below, would stack the 5TX and Mojo? Have you considered that?


----------



## r2muchstuff

All,
What shipping method is used for orders in the USA?

Thanks,
r


----------



## wjblaney

jmills8 said:


>


 
  I know this is a pretty late reply but what have you stacked your 5TX with?


----------



## jmills8

wjblaney said:


> I know this is a pretty late reply but what have you stacked your 5TX with?  :bigsmile_face:


----------



## wjblaney

vapman said:


> I upgraded to a Mojo which is better in terms of flexibility but the 5TX is no contest a winner on portability and battery. I really do miss it. The form factor was perfect and the sound was wonderful.
> 
> The amp quality of the 5TX was slightly better than the Mojo though. It is really easy to suddenly mute too.
> 
> If you have a 5TX and you're happy with it, keep it. But yes, when I had my 5TX and I used it at home, I would use it with an AK4396 DAC or an ODAC and the sound was _drastically_ improved. I wish I had got the chance to stack the 5TX and Mojo together. Mojo as a DAC and 5TX as an amp would probably be good as it gets.


 
  
 I inquired directly to Deco 2000 Co., LTD about the price of the Mojo DAC and received a personal email telling me about $650 USD, including shipment to Thailand. Jesus, there's got to be a better price somewhere.


----------



## wjblaney

jmills8 said:


>


 
  
 What's that?


----------



## jmills8

wjblaney said:


> What's that?


Cowon Pleneu M with 5TX.


----------



## wjblaney

jmills8 said:


> Cowon Pleneu M with 5TX.


 
  
 OK, that's your portable player. 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## wjblaney

Wish I would have gotten that instead of an Ipod Nano last year: twice the price but 64 gb compared to 16. Believe me, I'm going to figure out a way, lol. Ipod's battery life is very short also.


----------



## Rayzilla

Here is my portable set up now.


----------



## musicinmymind

How does 4G compare to 5TX, there are good deal on ebay for 4G.


----------



## wjblaney

How good of a deal?


----------



## KookaBurrra

musicinmymind said:


> How does 4G compare to 5TX, there are good deal on ebay for 4G.


 

 4G do not have "DAC" part... the Amp is good, slightly less good than the 5TX, honestly. But if you just need an AMP : go for 4G at "Good Price" !


----------



## musicinmymind

I do not need the DAC, will be using with AK240 just as AMP, thanks for suggesting @KookaBurrra. Mainly looking for driving HD-650 and play with EQ setting, it should be fun.
  
 There was on guy selling for 150$, which I took.


----------



## jmills8

There is a 5TX on sale in the For Sale in HF.


----------



## vapman

rayzilla said:


> Here is my portable set up now.


 
 I've owned 4 Blackberry 10 devices and NONE supported USB audio.
 you have to tell me how you made this work, please!!!


----------



## wjblaney

rayzilla said:


> Here is my portable set up now.


 
  
 Looks to me u _are_ using your laptop as the player. Thanks for the specs at the bottom. Now I have no excuses to ask you "could you explain how those pieces of hardware are connected and in which order? Also, what cables would I need (I live in Chaing Mai, TH so should come across them)? Robert provides so little, in that dept." No excuses, whatsoever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm very sad but you got your repo, nonetheless. I do have a legit question you could answer (skip the cost of the PC) how much did that rig cost? (In USD would be helpful.)
  
 BTW, everybody, I just got another (about the third) personal email from him and in the reply I gave the best reasons why he should (from a business prospective that would be a HUGE impetus. Maybe he doesn't want or need any more customers). He also promised a new version of the Arrow for next year. God, is that funny or what? (He hasn't already posted on the thread, has he?)
  
 Thanks Ray,
 BillyCNX, That is, currently, a nerd and a newbie.


----------



## wjblaney

wjblaney said:


> Looks to me u _are_ using your laptop as the player. Thanks for the specs at the bottom. Now I have no excuses to ask you "could you explain how those pieces of hardware are connected and in which order? Also, what cables would I need (I live in Chaing Mai, TH so should come across them)? Robert provides so little, in that dept." No excuses, whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## wjblaney

rayzilla said:


> Here is my portable set up now.


 
  
*Full Size Headphones:* STAX SR-009, Senn HD800, Ultrasone Edition 8 LE, Parot Zik 2.0, Pro900, Focal Spirit One, ATH-ES10, & Grado RS-2.
*IEM:* Shure 535
*Headphone Amp:*STAX SRM-323S, HDVD800, Line Magnetic Mini 218IA with Line Magnetic DAC 502CA, Headstage Arrow 5TX, Fiio E18 & E17.
*Source:* BB Priv,...
 
MODS (or anybody), why the three dots at the end of the *Source:* line? Is there more to the post which I don't know how to expand? Or does Rayzilla want to keep this secret?


----------



## wjblaney

wjblaney said:


>


 
  
 I am replying to Rayzilla in this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/475499/headstage-arrow-he-reviews-impressions-perceptions-sensations/3795#post_12424964


----------



## wjblaney

MODS: Why was Robert banned from Head-fi?


----------



## wjblaney

Who knows Robert's last name? (correct spelling, please)


----------



## wjblaney

It's Robert Gehrke.


----------



## Kerouac

wjblaney said:


> MODS: Why was Robert banned from Head-fi?


 

 Maybe because he posted 7x in a row in the same thread?


----------



## Blommen

jmills8 said:


> There is a 5TX on sale in the For Sale in HF.



It's mine haha! Really looking forward to trying it out, going to be paired with fiio x7.


----------



## wjblaney

MODS: Is their any means for banned members to make amends and get the ban lifted? It looks to me Robert Gehrke's ban has lasted 9 years so far.
  
 In view of his incredible popularity (as evidenced by this thread), having him online would do wonders for a great many of us impatient and ignorant types.
  
 Of course, I would like to know the circumstances and evidence leading up to his banning. What I have seemed to discern so far is a either a copyright infringement or patent litigation. If so, I live in Thailand where every stitch of clothing, for example, is ripped off from the originals: Nike, Adidas, computers, every stitch of clothing you can name from ALL of the famous French fashion houses is reproduced legally and and at incredibly reduced prices. Of course, the real shops have a presence in the large city malls along with their incredible prices for the rich and famous. But I'd like to say the Thais make very good clothing at ridiculous cheap prices. This country does not recognize patents. So what's the big deal about?
  
 OK, that was off topic. Was anyone around 10 years ago when this all went down? Of course, the mods must have records whether they were around or not. I'd like anybody's comments, speculation and, especially facts.
  
 Ciao baby


----------



## wjblaney

kerouac said:


> Maybe because he posted 7x in a row in the same thread?


 
  
 You must be joking so I will add to your repo.
  
 Xiao baby


----------



## Rayzilla

vapman said:


> I've owned 4 Blackberry 10 devices and NONE supported USB audio.
> you have to tell me how you made this work, please!!!


 

 Hey Vapman. I was never lucky enough to have owned/tried the BB10 devices. I am sure it is a different experience, both good and bad but very unique to all of the main phones on the market. BB's were my first smart phones because of my previous career and I am glad I have this chance now to go back to one, being a Canadian at heart and all.
  
 I wasn't into all of this audio stuff when I last owned a BB so I never had to go through what you went through with your BB10s. With my BB Priv, it just simply works. Maybe because it is a full-on Android based phone now? That would be my guess since I am not really a techie.
  
 Anyway, I love this phone. My last phone was a Samsung Note 2, which was also a very good phone that did not give me any problems. The only thing I miss on my BB Priv is the ability to easily switch up the batteries like I was able to with the Note 2.
  
 So, sorry... but I have no magical solutions for your BB10/USB Audio problem.


----------



## Rayzilla

wjblaney said:


> Looks to me u _are_ using your laptop as the player. Thanks for the specs at the bottom. Now I have no excuses to ask you "could you explain how those pieces of hardware are connected and in which order? Also, what cables would I need (I live in Chaing Mai, TH so should come across them)? Robert provides so little, in that dept." No excuses, whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hello Billy,
  
 The portable rig that I posted the pictures for does not include my MacBook Air, although I do use the MBA when I am at work or home. At work, I either connect my HD800 to the Arrow 5TX and into the MBA via USB or my old FiiO E17 also via USB. For portable, my Ed8 goes into the Arrow 5TX and directly into the BB Priv via the Mini (or is it Micro?) USB that was provided by Robert with the Arrow 5TX. So that's pretty much it... nothing magical here but the sound coming out of the 5TX.
  
 BTW, I will be coming to Thailand at the end of this month for an ice-hockey tournament. What is the pricing of audio equipment in Bangkok? Any suggestions on places to check out? Thanks.


----------



## vapman

rayzilla said:


> So, sorry... but I have no magical solutions for your BB10/USB Audio problem.


 
 no problem, thanks for your reply though. cool that you have the priv! the reason i asked (aside from getting excited from seeing the BB logo) is that i've seen reports of people randomly getting it working on their phones. anyway, since BB10 isn't android based, it makes sense priv can do USB output no problem 
  
 another reason for me to get a priv actually!


----------



## flinkenick

Robert has added a basic explanation of the 5TX on his site:
  
http://www.headstage.com/forum/showthread.php/46-Arrow-5TX-Manual?s=b9f1dd0fea44b91cd881acb31ee69054


----------



## wjblaney

vapman said:


> I've owned 4 Blackberry 10 devices and NONE supported USB audio.
> you have to tell me how you made this work, please!!!


 
  
 Since this is the Arrow thread and since the 5TX (as well as every other version, going back to the 4G at least) charges from a USB port (btw, there are plugs that plug directly into any household power output and simply has a USB outlet on the other side of the plug. You plug your USB input into the plug and the other end of the chord into the Arrow and that will charge it as well as a computer. I bet there are thousands of users in this predicament: no charge on their device, no computer to charge from. With a plug like I described: no problem) and also plays while charging, why don't you buy it?


----------



## vapman

wjblaney said:


> Since this is the Arrow thread and since the 5TX (as well as every other version, going back to the 4G at least) charges from a USB port (btw, there are plugs that plug directly into any household power output and simply has a USB outlet on the other side of the plug. You plug your USB input into the plug and the other end of the chord into the Arrow and that will charge it as well as a computer. I bet there are thousands of users in this predicament: no charge on their device, no computer to charge from. With a plug like I described: no problem) and also plays while charging, why don't you buy it?


 

 The real problem is blackberry 10 OS doesn't support USB audio devices, period. I got excited when i saw the BB logo on his phone that maybe he found a way to do it, but you are right. you need an otg cable and switch the 5TX DAC to "M"


----------



## wjblaney

rayzilla said:


> Hello Billy,
> 
> The portable rig that I posted the pictures for does not include my MacBook Air, although I do use the MBA when I am at work or home. At work, I either connect my HD800 to the Arrow 5TX and into the MBA via USB or my old FiiO E17 also via USB. For portable, my Ed8 goes into the Arrow 5TX and directly into the BB Priv via the Mini (or is it Micro?) USB that was provided by Robert with the Arrow 5TX. So that's pretty much it... nothing magical here but the sound coming out of the 5TX.
> 
> BTW, I will be coming to Thailand at the end of this month for an ice-hockey tournament. What is the pricing of audio equipment in Bangkok? Any suggestions on places to check out? Thanks.


 
  
 Hockey in Thailand? That's incredible. You'll be staying in Bangkok? Are you looking for high-end stuff? There are a ton of gigantic Western style malls (i.e., expensive, lol) that are all called Central something or other, e..g., Central Airport. You get it. I'm sure they'll have high end stuff. I've only stayed a few nights in Bangkok so don't know about specific places but if you have time to check out Lazada.co.th online I'm sure they'll have bargains there and may even ship to Canada. Another idea is to google "audio equipment" before u go. Then get a google map w/directions to the best lot. 
  
 I once found an extremely cheap philips mp3 player, which I still have. But that was in a way out of the way market surrounded by tons of people and shops that had, like, live chickens and snakes which they would butcher for their customers. And that bazaar wasn't anywhere near Bangkok. But if you have time to wander, google "bangkok bazaars" or "bangkok night markets". Night markets are all over TH: usually, Sat., Sun and Mon. They block off whole streets and let vendors set up their shops on the street. Fun place to wander around, anyway. Lastly, join teakdoor.com. It's a forum for people who love and usually have been or are planning to go to TH. You don't even have to join, if you don't plan on posting. Go to the Forum Home page firstly. On that page, you'll find The Multimedia Forum. There are a ton of audiophiles on teakdoor and I'm sure you'll get your answers there. Of course, if you don't, visit audiophile.com, which originates in Japan but is an all english web site. There is **** on that site that I've never hear of like a ORB DF-01i High-End Audio Vinyl LP Record Flattener. If I were you, I'd go there first.
  
 Good luck (chok dii cop)!
 BillyCNX


----------



## Sound Eq

to be honest I did not know Robert was banned from head-fi, and this sucks
  
 I think the whole community is missing out from input and communication with a genius like Robert
  
 And what amazed me most is that you guys mention that it happened about 10 years ago, oh common that is totally not relevant as 10 years ago almost everything changed, even the skin on my body got replaced
  
 Common we need to raise a demand to allow Robert back, as he is a master in what he does, and to be honest his 5tx is among the things I will be totally devastated if it did not exit in my chain of equipment
  
 what do u think guys shall we work on getting him back on, the question also is if Robert himself is interested to re-join here or not


----------



## wjblaney

sound eq said:


> to be honest I did not know Robert was banned from head-fi, and this sucks
> 
> I think the whole community is missing out from input and communication with a genius like Robert
> 
> ...


 
  
 Where are the mods at? Why haven't they replied?


----------



## wjblaney

I found an "administrator" and sent him this message:


> Hey Jude,
> 
> Take a look at the thread Headstage Arrow HE: Reviews, Impressions, Perceptions & Sensations. It is 255 pages in length and dedicated solely and entirely to Robert's Arrow, in all its incarnations.
> 
> ...


 
  I invite everybody who wants Robert back to do the same. Go here: http://www.head-fi.org/u/1/jude


----------



## Sound Eq

wjblaney said:


> I found an "administrator" and sent him this message:
> I invite everybody who wants Robert back to do the same. Go here: http://www.head-fi.org/u/1/jude


 
 i will do that as well


----------



## r2muchstuff

Second try.

For those of you in the USA, how did your 5TX arrive? 
USPS, FedEx, UPS or ?

Work place does not accept USPS packages for individuals thus this matters.

Thanks,
r


----------



## Pacman123

USPS I believe


----------



## jmills8

r2muchstuff said:


> Second try.
> 
> For those of you in the USA, how did your 5TX arrive?
> USPS, FedEx, UPS or ?
> ...


You can inform Robert not to use UPS .


----------



## flinkenick

I thought he just used DHL internationally; it could be that it's different for US of course, but I'd just send him an email.


----------



## wjblaney

Hi all,
  
 About Robert's ban, I received a PM from Jude and he deserves _respect_, whatever your thoughts about Robert's ban are after you read this. But please post them. The reason for the respect is that Jude has not only been around since then, but since way before that.
  
 1. He took the time to research the issue completely and I mean there is nothing left out of the thread but I'm only going to link Jude's post. You can read the whole thread, if you like. 
 2. He PM'd me personally.
 3. His arguments (in his post from _nine_ years ago) seem flawless. 
  
 Let me know what y'all think.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/235675/withdraw-of-amps/60#post_2914711


----------



## Sound Eq

wjblaney said:


> Hi all,
> 
> About Robert's ban, I received a PM from Jude and he deserves _respect_, whatever your thoughts about Robert's ban are after you read this. But please post them. The reason for the respect is that Jude has not only been around since then, but since way before that.
> 
> ...


 
 i received the same pm
  
 i did not have enough time to read through it
  
 But I will look into it in detail soon.
  
 The question that comes to my mind, is Robert interested to be back on this forum?


----------



## wjblaney

sound eq said:


> i received the same pm
> 
> i did not have enough time to read through it
> 
> ...


 
  
 I just sent this message to Jude:


> Hi Jude,
> 
> Sure Robert "copied" some stuff. Your quotes:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
  
 .


----------



## wjblaney

Thought I post Robert's support forum: http://www.headstage.com/forum/forum.php Seems like the arguments and complaints on this thread about late deliveries and unanswered emails would stand a better chance over there.


----------



## proedros

edit


----------



## wjblaney

sound eq said:


> i received the same pm
> 
> i did not have enough time to read through it
> 
> ...


 
  
 OK, I got Robert's "defense" from an email he just sent me:
  


> Hi William,
> 
> I just had a look at Head-Fi. Thanks for bringing up the old Meier case! I am so happy! Haha…
> 
> ...


 
 Anyone still interested in Robert's banning from Head-Fi nine years ago will find the above an interesting read.
  
 BTW, I totally agree with Robert. Nothing out of the ordinary except feathers ruffled, which appears to be the simple reason Robert continues to be banned after nine years. 
 Jude made a good case it seemed. IMO, Robert made a better one counter-arguing above "Everyone does it. Product was improved. Patent application was unsuccessful. End of story". 
  
 A few more details though: Jude mentioned in his post that Meier strictly made his living selling amps and Jude seemed to feel sorry for him. I wonder if Robert's banning came before the government's decision on the patent? Or after? Either way, It's simply Jude and/or Meier don't want Robert around, EH? I mean they were/are in competition. Let's clear the air.
  
 Jude can step up to the plate and show me where I'm wrong. That''s fine with me. Like I said: with respect.
  
 Otherwise. Robert's been the most honest and straightforward salesman with a product  that defies and astounds the imagination. This is whole rehash only strengthens my faith in Robert and I'm going to support him on this forum (and here).


----------



## jmills8

wjblaney said:


> OK, I got Robert's "defense" from an email he just sent me:
> 
> Anyone still interested in Robert's banning from Head-Fi nine years ago will find the above an interesting read.
> 
> ...


Humans, well most, puts limits on themselves.


----------



## wjblaney

jmills8 said:


> Humans, well most, puts limits on themselves.


 
 Exactly how? With regards to social interactions? That seems closest to what you might mean. In what way did Jude and Robert limit themselves?


----------



## wjblaney

OK. So, anybody here who has doubts about his Robert's integrity has now seen a can of worms opened. There's been a link to Jude's post from 9 years ago explaining in complete detail Head-Fi-s logic behind Robert's ban. Robert has offered a little defense above but has decided to post his whole defense on his own support forum. I think it as compete in depth as Jude's link so it deserves to be posted here, especially since I posted Jude's link in the first place.
  
 


> Why I am not on Head-Fi...
> 
> 
> > Lately someone asked me to join Head-Fi forums and support customers there. I answer I couldn’t do that as I am banned. He then asked around to find out the reason. That brought up the old dispute with Dr. Meier. I would prefer to let this behind me but as it is brought up again I think it is time to tell the full story:
> ...


 



>


 
 Robert is completely exonerated at this point, unless anybody---and all are invited--would like to question any or all party's words so far: "as quoted". 
  
 Cheers


----------



## jude

Patents or not, as I've bolded below, he copied his design (value-for-value, including the crossfeed, save for the opamp)--something he's admitted--and sold it as his own product. That was the crux of the issue. For me, this isn't about patents. How many of the amp designers here patent their circuits? If someone copies an amp by Schiit or Cavalli or ALO or HeadAmp--value-for-value--then sells it as his own product, is that okay? Patents or not, I think most in this community would say _no_, that it's absolutely _not_ okay.
  
 I posted my summary about how the whole situation played out in *this post*, and a re-read of the entire thread and messages did nothing to change my interpretation, or the conclusions/decisions that were reached.
  
 (NOTE: Most/all of the internal Head-Fi links in that thread--and in other posts made in 2007 and before--are pointing to the wrong posts now, due to a technical situation that occurred later that year that corrupted link references.)
  
 Robert first denied it, then tried to turn the tables and instead go on the attack (covered also in one of the bolded parts below, also search my linked post above for "Ohman"), then he finally relented and admitted it, only after it had (as he put it below) went over the top.
  
 Yes, this was many years ago. No, @wjblaney, you're not doing Robert any favors here as his proxy, in my opinion.
  
 Robert, if you want to discuss it, contact me directly. From this point forward, I will only discuss it directly with the persons directly involved.
  
 No, this won't be discussed any further in these forums.
  


wjblaney said:


> OK. So, anybody here who has doubts about his Robert's integrity has now seen a can of worms opened. There's been a link to Jude's post from 9 years ago explaining in complete detail Head-Fi-s logic behind Robert's ban. Robert has offered a little defense above but has decided to post his whole defense on his own support forum. I think it as compete in depth as Jude's link so it deserves to be posted here, especially since I posted Jude's link in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jmills8

jude said:


> Patents or not, as I've bolded below, he copied his design (value-for-value, including the crossfeed, save for the opamp)--something he's admitted--and sold it as his own product. That was the crux of the issue. For me, this isn't about patents. How many of the amp designers here patent their circuits? If someone copies an amp by Schiit or Cavalli or ALO or HeadAmp--value-for-value--then sells it as his own product, is that okay? Patents or not, I think most in this community would say _no_, that it's absolutely _not_ okay.
> 
> I posted my summary about how the whole situation played out in *this post*, and a re-read of the entire thread and messages did nothing to change my interpretation, or the conclusions/decisions that were reached.
> 
> ...


I have not seen any portable amp that has all the features that the Arrow has. Bass boost, tteble boost, able to boost the bass at only the sub bass region, size. If the so called original amp had all these features where can I buy it?


----------



## Sound Eq

jmills8 said:


> I have not seen any portable amp that has all the features that the Arrow has. Bass boost, tteble boost, able to boost the bass at only the sub bass region, size. If the so called original amp had all these features where can I buy it?


 
 simply headstage arrow 5tx is the best portable amp for iems, end of story
  
 wish we could get over all this drama and settle all this ordeal
  
 I think Robert is really an amazing person, after buying the 5tx and using it for few months, he sends me an email and asks me what I think of the 5tx and about the experience with it. 
  
 How many manufacturers send you an email just asking for your feedback???
  
 Robert is a top notch guy and his amps are top notch
  
 I will always buy his amps/dacs


----------



## musicinmymind

Even though I like my headstage arrow 4G a lot and thank Robert for a great product in small package. Jude is not on wrong side IMO, no one should misuse others hard work.


----------



## jmills8

musicinmymind said:


> Even though I like my headstage arrow 4G a lot and thank Robert for a great product in small package. Jude is not on wrong side IMO, no one should misuse others hard work.


So the Chinese daps, iems and amps didnt use any others internal designs?


----------



## wjblaney

jude said:


> Yes, this was many years ago. No, @wjblaney, you're not doing Robert any favors here as his proxy, in my opinion.
> 
> No, this won't be discussed any further in these forums.


 
  
 No problem. I wasn't trying to stir up a hornet's nest from many years ago or another one now. I just wanted to air my own doubts and, of course, I chose to do it in public. My choice but not necessarily the right one. I won't mention it again.
  
 With respect.


----------



## musicinmymind

jmills8 said:


> musicinmymind said:
> 
> 
> > Even though I like my headstage arrow 4G a lot and thank Robert for a great product in small package. Jude is not on wrong side IMO, no one should misuse others hard work.
> ...


 
  
 There is difference between First world & China, I do not buy a Chinese unless I know they are selling their own innovated, like HifiMan HE-6 which is my end game. But I do not bother to verify legitimacy when it is coming from Germany. I had sleepless nights working on new ideas for software products I develop, also know the pain when idea stolen from kickstarter.


----------



## jmills8

NEW Arrow 6TX ?


----------



## KookaBurrra

*Headstage Arrow 6NX*
(With crystal clear sound.) 
*US $ 299.00*
 http://www.headstage.com/Arrow-6NX/6TX/Headstage-Arrow-6NX::10144.html?XTCsid=e9724812474dc43d169900d10c67e34b
  
*Headstage Arrow 6TX*
(With tube-like sound.) 
*US $ 349.00 *
 http://www.headstage.com/Arrow-6NX/6TX/Headstage-Arrow-6TX::10154.html?XTCsid=e9724812474dc43d169900d10c67e34b


----------



## jmills8

kookaburrra said:


> [COLOR=000000]*Headstage Arrow 6NX*[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=666666][COLOR=666666]([/COLOR][COLOR=666666]With crystal clear sound.) [/COLOR][/COLOR]
> *US $ 299.00*
> http://www.headstage.com/Arrow-6NX/6TX/Headstage-Arrow-6NX::10144.html?XTCsid=e9724812474dc43d169900d10c67e34b
> ...


 Hope more info on these new amps !


----------



## KookaBurrra

*Headstage Arrow 6NX   *  
 The new Headstage Arrow 6NX is a stylish headphone amp in an ultra slim case with high output power and long battery run time. It uses the LM6172 opamp and BUF634 buffers to achieve a high fidelity sound. "NX" stands for a crystal clear neutral sound with "extra" output power (added BUF634 buffers).
  
*Headstage Arrow 6TX   *  
 The 6TX is the same as the 6NX but with the AD8620 opamp. The sound is a bit warmer. "TX" stands for a "tube-like" soundage with "extra" output drive (added BUF634 buffers).


----------



## vapman

Sweeeeeeeet! Will it have the extended bass option as well, I hope?


----------



## Blommen

Really interested in the tube sound Even though I just bought a 5tx


----------



## jmills8

blommen said:


> Really interested in the tube sound Even though I just bought a 5tx


5TX bass enhanced or non? I like both.


----------



## KookaBurrra

blommen said:


> Really interested in the tube sound Even though I just bought a 5tx


 

 The 5TX have the same OpAmp (AD8620 opamp), so the 6TX will sound mostly the same...
 "TX" stands for a "tube-like" sound (= T) with "extra" output drive (= X).


----------



## Blommen

Ah alright, good to hear. Not that it would matter, I love my 5tx! and I just have the normal bass version


----------



## jmills8

blommen said:


> Ah alright, good to hear. Not that it would matter, I love my 5tx! and I just have the normal bass version


notmal version is detailed and acurrate. Bass enhanced the bass hits double harder than the non enhanced bass version.


----------



## Pacman123

Love my enhanced bass 5TX.
  
 If the new 6TX has a bass boosted version I would be interested though...


----------



## Jan Meier

Dear headfellows,
  
 Jude pointed me to this discussion and suggested me to join.
  
 However, I will try not to give my opinion on various aspects of the case. Just want to put some things straight or add some facts.
  
 " Meier never had a patent. He only had an application for a patent for his version of the Ohman crossfeed. This application however was refused by the German patent office."
  
 German patent law is a little bit special. It is possible to file a patent-application and ask for an informal testing and next you have one year before you have to apply for a formal review/verification.
  
 In case of the crossfeed filter the informal testing indicated that approval of the patent was very likely to be granted.
  
 I never applied for a formal verification though. The reason is simply one of economics. Headphone amplifiers are made and sold all over the world so a German patent wouldn't bring me much. And the costs for a world-wide patent easily add up to USD 25,000 ... USD 40,000. That's an investment that's unlikely to pay off.
  
 However, please be noted that the discussion on Head-Fi didn't focus on Robert using the crossfeed. The focus was on the fact that he made a 1-to-1 copy of one of my amps!
  
 " Jude knows this. "
  
 As far as I can remember I never discussed the patent situation with Jude at any stage.
  
 " that amp that I copied was sold as DIY kit. "
  
 No, at the time of the discussion the schematics of the amp that Robert copied were not made public yet. Only during the discussion they were made available so people were able to verify that their amps were a copy of my design. If my memory serves me well it was Kevin Gilmore who was the first to make the comparison and confirmed that the schematics of both amps were identical. Only in a much later stage was the amp sold as a DIY-kit.
  
 Robert must have gotten hands on one of my amps and unraveled the schematics by study of this amp! He couldn't have found them on the internet or somewhere else!
  
 " My version of his circuit had a better opamp and thus sounded better"
  
 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!    .
  
 "So of course, I didn’t wanted to admit that my amp was originated from Meier.."
  
 Which was very vehemently done!
  
 " Now Meier sent me a fax telling me I have to pay him fees for every sold amp as his cross feed circuit is patented and the wholecircuit stands under “European copy right”. "
  
 In the discussion I never focused on the patent. Again I focused on the fact that Robert made a 1-to-1 copy of the amp!!
  
 " Few weeks later I even called him and asked if he still believes that his patent will be approved. He said “yes with 99% it will be approved”."
  
 I must be getting old. Can't remember any such telephone call!!??
  
 It is true that Jude and I get along well. However, it should be noted that I never asked him to bann Robert from this side. This was Jude's decision and it was triggered by the behavior of Robert towards Jude.
  
 The discussion on Head-Fi also got noted by the members on the German HiFi-Forum side and the discussion over there at the time wasn't very much in favor of Robert either. He contacted the moderators and asked them to remove the various contributions from their side. When this request was refused he started threatening with lawyers apparently using a very non-friendly language. For these reasons he was then banned from HiFi-Forum also. In this context please be assured that I have no personal relation/friendship with any of the moderators of this forum and that they never discussed their decisions with me. I only was told much later.
  
 The arrow is, as far as I can see, a completely original design and as such no part of this discussion.
  
 Cheers
  
 Jan


----------



## vapman

I didn't realize the Arrow 6's were out already! The AD8620 is a really nice opamp but it's a bit disappointing 6NX uses the LM6172 which is ridiculously cheap. I don't know if I would get a 6NX for that reason alone...
  
 Then again the 5TX's started at 349 and had the AD8620 so I see the 6NX as a budget version.


----------



## Sound Eq

so what will be the difference between 5tx and 6tx, and i wonder if there will be a 6tx enhanced bass edition


----------



## vapman

sound eq said:


> so what will be the difference between 5tx and 6tx, and i wonder if there will be a 6tx enhanced bass edition


 

 gonna assume "no" because i don't see a bass enhanced one on the site... and 6tx will have same output buffers & opamp as 5tx so it should be a very similar sound. but we will see!


----------



## jmills8

vapman said:


> gonna assume "no" because i don't see a bass enhanced one on the site... and 6tx will have same output buffers & opamp as 5tx so it should be a very similar sound. but we will see!


Robert knows that many love his bass.


----------



## vapman

jmills8 said:


> Robert knows that many love his bass.


 

 That is why I am interested to know if the 6TX is already "enhanced bass" or if there is another model with more bass yet to come?


----------



## Pacman123

Lets hope he has something up his sleeve for us bass heads


----------



## TonySunshine

from the support forum on headstage it seems like the new 6NX/TX will be the guts of the 5 inside a new case?


----------



## Pacman123

Silver/chrome looks nice


----------



## vapman

agreed. i like the silver looks!
  
 if they are the same than the $349 model should be equivalent to the 5TX as the $299 model has an inferior opamp.


----------



## jmills8

He has never made a worse one.


----------



## alpha421

Is the 6TX the model with the OTG DAC?


----------



## jmills8

alpha421 said:


> Is the 6TX the model with the OTG DAC?


usb dac


----------



## Sound Eq

i am still not getting whats the difference between 5tx and 6tx


----------



## alpha421

^Same here.  Any info on it is lacking,  but ordering one blind seems to be available.
  
 Quote:


jmills8 said:


> usb dac


 

 I assumed it's a USB DAC by default. Just wanted to clarify that the OTG functions as it should.


----------



## jmills8

alpha421 said:


> I assumed it's a USB DAC by default. Just wanted to clarify that the OTG functions as it should.


It has a switch to turn dac on manually, auto, or turn off dac..


----------



## Kerouac

alpha421 said:


> ...but ordering one blind seems to be available.


 
  





  
 You won't be sorry


----------



## KookaBurrra

On the Arrow 5TX, you have a switch to choose the DAC mode : 
  

  
 O = Off.
 P = PC (and charge the Arrow).
 M = Mobile (and use it in battery).
  
 You have to choose "M" to use it with your Android smartphone and it is compatible directly without any problems !


----------



## Kerouac

My Arrow 5P has exactly the same switches / functionality
 Although I've never felt the need to use its dac


----------



## Sound Eq

eager to read about comparisons between 5tx and 6tx
  
 and hoping for enhanced bass edition


----------



## alpha421

Thanks all.  For those who've used it as a USB/OTG DAC to his/her smartphone, what battery life are you getting?


----------



## jmills8

alpha421 said:


> Thanks all.  For those who've used it as a USB/OTG DAC to his/her smartphone, what battery life are you getting?


easily over 6 days of use.


----------



## alpha421

How's that, if the battery is rated at 30 hrs, which I assume is for amplification only?  Is that figure based on 2-3 hrs of listening per day?


----------



## jmills8

alpha421 said:


> How's that, if the battery is rated at 30 hrs, which I assume is for amplification only?  Is that figure based on 2-3 hrs of listening per day?


Maybe 30 hrs is for the new Arrows I have the previous models. About 3 to 4 hrs per day, 6 days a week. I charge it once a week at most.


----------



## Mmet

I believe that the new arrows will be more powerful with a better amplification circuit and that's it ... the 5th generation are already awesome ones


----------



## Kerouac

mmet said:


> I believe that the new arrows will be more powerful with a better amplification circuit and that's it ... the 5th generation are already awesome ones


 
  
 Even better amplification circuit? Man...I'm already loving this 5th gen so much indeed!
 Listening atm with X5 + Arrow 5P (bass & treble boost both on I) with my new custom (AR6) = sonical bliss


----------



## alpha421

Are the TX models better suited for iem use (cleaner and quieter)?  I wouldn't be using it much for headphones.


----------



## Mmet

"It uses the LM6172 opamp and BUF634 buffers to achieve a high fidelity sound. "NX" stands for a crystal clear neutral sound with "extra" output power (added BUF634 buffers)."
  
from headphonia : 6NX description


----------



## Sound Eq

any updates on the new arrow amps/dacs


----------



## Sound Eq

man i want to support robert by buying his new amp its just i need to know what is the difference between 5tx and 6tx and i wish to see an enhanced bass edition, he deserves more appreciation


----------



## Pacman123




----------



## jmills8

pacman123 said:


>


Nice and now ask about sound difference between 5 and 6.


----------



## Sound Eq

pacman123 said:


>


 
 really good to know that he can do an enhanced bass 6tx, just waiting for more info about differences between 5tx and 6tx


----------



## Sound Eq

so did anyone buy the new 6tx


----------



## QWERTYY

Hahaha, I was the one that asked Robert that jmills8. Hello to everyone on the thread! I'm quite new to this thread.


----------



## QWERTYY

jmills8 said:


> Nice and now ask about sound difference between 5 and 6.


 

 05-08-2016, 04:07 AM#4​
chuypad9 





 Junior Member Join Date
 May 2016

 Posts
 1

  





> _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  






Reply With Quote​

 05-09-2016, 02:31 PM#5​
Robert 





 Administrator

 Join Date
 Feb 2014

 Posts
 53

  





> 5TX and 6TX are the same except the new housing. I will show pictures when available...





>





>





>





>





>





>


----------



## Pacman123

The 6tx is supposed to have a new battery 2100 mah so the dac has more power. Still fits in the same case too.


----------



## crd88

Has anyone upgraded from 2G to the 6? What are the benefits?
  
 From what I've seen, the 6 has:
  
1. Treble switch 
  
 2. Two bass switches (Amount and Frequency), where the 2g only controls the amount
  
3. Digital potentiometer
  
4. USB DAC
  
5. Removed the impedance switch
  
6. Power switch
  
7. Different opamp and buffer(I cannot remember the models in the 2G)


----------



## cristobalroy

I just made my order. *Order number:4911*


----------



## jmills8

cristobalroy said:


> I just made my order. *Order number:4911*


 one of the best amp you can get. Plus its the most portable amp.


----------



## Kerouac

jmills8 said:


> one of the best amp you can get. Plus its the most portable amp.


 
  
 Fully agreed (on both points)! When you stack it up (I have 5P usually on X5) you almost wouldn't notice it's there


----------



## Pacman123

Has anyone tried the new 6tx or nx versions?
  
 Rob said it would have a bigger battery and a new case.


----------



## Pacman123

Deleted


----------



## Tassie Devil

Sucked in.  After reading  reviews I've ordered a 6NX to go with my Sony ZX100.  I looked at buying used but the ones on offer at the moment are not bargains which is good from the point of view of them keeping their value but bad from the point of view of getting in via the back door for less outlay.  Also sounds like the digital volume control, although more expensive than analog, is a better proposition.
  
 But I read there could be a wait time.  Anyone know the current situation?


----------



## Tony51

great review


----------



## pkcpga

I wish the new arrow came with a better or more modern DAC, 16/44 is not acceptable today for my needs.


----------



## Sound Eq

i have a problem with my 5tx, all of a sudden the power indictaor keeps blinking red, and i put it on the charger for more than 6 hours and still keeps blinking red when i turn it on.
  
 I tried to drain it and then recharrge it same result, this has been going on for many days. Is there maybe a reset switch
  
 how can take the amp appart to remove and reinstall the battery maybe that will fix the issue,


----------



## vapman

and you didnt leave the dac set to "m"?
  
 lol
  
 if youre totally sure dac isnt set to m then send it for warranty
  


pkcpga said:


> I wish the new arrow came with a better or more modern DAC, 16/44 is not acceptable today for my needs.


 
  
  
 Newburyport! shocked at how many local users we have now.
 agreed arrow at 16/44 is not suitable, but please remember the dac built in its cheap as bones, is is a last resort dac. you are intended to feed a better dac to it. but sometime you have no coice in which case something better than 16/44 would really be nice


----------



## jmills8

sound eq said:


> i have a problem with my 5tx, all of a sudden the power indictaor keeps blinking red, and i put it on the charger for more than 6 hours and still keeps blinking red when i turn it on.
> 
> I tried to drain it and then recharrge it same result, this has been going on for many days. Is there maybe a reset switch
> 
> how can take the amp appart to remove and reinstall the battery maybe that will fix the issue,


 do not charge from conputer. Charge it from wall outlet.


----------



## Sound Eq

jmills8 said:


> do not charge from conputer. Charge it from wall outlet.


 
 thats what i did, but its not working


----------



## jmills8

sound eq said:


> thats what i did, but its not working


if blinking it is not charging.


----------



## Sound Eq

jmills8 said:


> if blinking it is not charging.


 
 yeah i guess then something is wrong 
  
 tried 5 different cables, 5 different charging outlets
  
 it keeps blinking red
  
 i sent an email to robert, lets see how customer service will be


----------



## pkcpga

vapman said:


> and you didnt leave the dac set to "m"?
> 
> lol
> 
> ...



It's just surprising for the price point verse any other DAC/amp combo on the market today, I don't think anyone is still using that dated of an amp. But it's nice to have the DAC built in if your traveling and want to play something direct from the onkyo hf app.
Your in newburyport also?


----------



## jmills8

sound eq said:


> yeah i guess then something is wrong
> 
> tried 5 different cables, 5 different charging outlets
> 
> ...


I once had a charging issue when I used to charge it from my computer. Then my usb that connected to the electrical socket was loose.


----------



## Sound Eq

jmills8 said:


> I once had a charging issue when I used to charge it from my computer. Then my usb that connected to the electrical socket was loose.


 
 i double checked everything, simply its not charging
  
 bummer


----------



## jmills8

sound eq said:


> i double checked everything, simply its not charging
> 
> bummer


 usb loose at the smp?


----------



## Sound Eq

jmills8 said:


> usb loose at the smp?


 
 well Robert is honestly the best there, he immediately responded, as I expected. He told me to send it to repair.
  
 What a great guy, a one man company can be more professional than a company with thousand employees
  
 I am so impressed how fast he responded, he is the hidden treasure at head-fi


----------



## jmills8

sound eq said:


> well Robert is honestly the best there, he immediately responded, as I expected. He told me to send it to repair.
> 
> What a great guy, a one man company can be more professional than a company with thousand employees
> 
> I am so impressed how fast he responded, he is the hidden treasure at head-fi


upgrade it.


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## Sound Eq

jmills8 said:


> upgrade it.


 
 i guess upgrading will cost as getting a new one, so i will pass on upgrading


----------



## warrior1975

Anyone have pics of the new model?


----------



## jmills8

warrior1975 said:


> Anyone have pics of the new model?


----------



## warrior1975

Thanks bro. Any different settings? Hardware buttons?


----------



## Sound Eq

warrior1975 said:


> Thanks bro. Any different settings? Hardware buttons?


 
 i think that is not the bass enhanced version


----------



## Sound Eq

jmills8 said:


>


 
 did u buy one


----------



## warrior1975

sound eq said:


> i think that is not the bass enhanced version




That's no good then bro!!!!


----------



## Sound Eq

warrior1975 said:


> That's no good then bro!!!!


 
 maybe jmills8 can answer
  
 and whats the difference between 5tx and 6tx sonically


----------



## jmills8

warrior1975 said:


> That's no good then bro!!!!


I had the non bass enhanced version before it still has two hass boost settings so you can make it bass hard. But the bass boost doesnt increase as much as the bass enhanced can. The non bass enhanced version does increase the details more and sound stage is wider. With a bassy iem the non bass enhanced version is very nice aswell.


----------



## jmills8

sound eq said:


> did u buy one


 not yet but I will. Remember all versions comes with two treble boost, two bass boost and freq boost. The bass enhanced version each bass boost will each hit a bit harder.


----------



## warrior1975

How does one purchase? What's the price? TIA.


----------



## jmills8

warrior1975 said:


> How does one purchase? What's the price? TIA.


Go to Headstage Arrow web site.


----------



## ChrisSC

Any impressions of how arrow + iPhone + low impedance IEMs compares to iPhone + low impedance IEMs​?  I'm mostly curious about whether the Arrow's DAC is better than the iphone's, as my IEMs are easy to drive.


----------



## pkcpga

chrissc said:


> Any impressions of how arrow + iPhone + low impedance IEMs compares to iPhone + low impedance IEMs​?  I'm mostly curious about whether the Arrow's DAC is better than the iphone's, as my IEMs are easy to drive.



The 5tx DAC was not very good, I emailed and asked if the 6 will have a better DAC and what he will be using. So far yes it will be better is all I got. I currently switched to the chord mojo which sounds extremely good, good enough DAC to where I decided to buy the chord Dave for my home DAC over my older naim DAC.


----------



## pkcpga

pkcpga said:


> The 5tx DAC was not very good, I emailed and asked if the 6 will have a better DAC and what he will be using. So far yes it will be better is all I got. I currently switched to the chord mojo which sounds extremely good, good enough DAC to where I decided to buy the chord Dave for my home DAC over my older naim DAC.



The arrow has plenty of power to power most headphones very well just a very dated DAC.


----------



## bigbung

chrissc said:


> Any impressions of how arrow + iPhone + low impedance IEMs compares to iPhone + low impedance IEMs​?  I'm mostly curious about whether the Arrow's DAC is better than the iphone's, as my IEMs are easy to drive.




Interesting since I just tried this combo. I have iphone 5s and arrow 5p and I definitely felt a difference in sound with the shure 846 iem. The sound even though not other worldly different felt more controlled overall with more impactful controlled bass.
I went back and forth so as to be very sure I need the extra connections and I can say I liked the sound better with the arrow.


----------



## pkcpga

bigbung said:


> Interesting since I just tried this combo. I have iphone 5s and arrow 5p and I definitely felt a difference in sound with the shure 846 iem. The sound even though not other worldly different felt more controlled overall with more impactful controlled bass.
> I went back and forth so as to be very sure I need the extra connections and I can say I liked the sound better with the arrow.



Having enough power from your amp will give you better bass, the arrow is know for being a pleasant sounding warm amp. It just has a basic 16bit 44-48 DAC like most phones or computers built into it. While DAC amps like the chord mojo have 32 bit 768 DACs built in, the sound difference is very noticeable.


----------



## jmills8

pkcpga said:


> Having enough power from your amp will give you better bass, the arrow is know for being a pleasant sounding warm amp. It just has a basic 16bit 44-48 DAC like most phones or computers built into it. While DAC amps like the chord mojo have 32 bit 768 DACs built in, the sound difference is very noticeable.


I agree that the Mojo has a very good sound BUT its bass does not hit strong enough especially compared to the Arrow. The Mojos battery last 7.5 hrs and its bulky and heavy. The Mojo gets hot. The Mojos dac is whats good and the Arrows amp is whats good. By the way with the Arrow one can tailor the sound cause it has treble and bass boost, with the Mojo one cant unless one connects the Mojo to a phone and uses an app with an EQ.


----------



## pkcpga

jmills8 said:


> I agree that the Mojo has a very good sound BUT its bass does not hit strong enough especially compared to the Arrow. The Mojos battery last 7.5 hrs and its bulky and heavy. The Mojo gets hot. The Mojos dac is whats good and the Arrows amp is whats good. By the way with the Arrow one can tailor the sound cause it has treble and bass boost, with the Mojo one cant unless one connects the Mojo to a phone and uses an app with an EQ.



Yeah sound is personal, the arrow is too colored for my taste I got rid of it after a very short period. The mojo sound much more natural, battery lasts about 9 hours for me. The mojo has much more separation and detail and defined bass instead of extra boom. But I also love my chord Dave DAC on my home stereo with naim preamp, amp and nautilus speakers. So I prefer the detail, air and separation instead of the extra warmth but that's personal.


----------



## jmills8

pkcpga said:


> Yeah sound is personal, the arrow is too colored for my taste I got rid of it after a very short period. The mojo sound much more natural, battery lasts about 9 hours for me. The mojo has much more separation and detail and defined bass instead of extra boom. But I also love my chord Dave DAC on my home stereo with naim preamp, amp and nautilus speakers. So I prefer the detail, air and separation instead of the extra warmth but that's personal.


 Enjoy.


----------



## Dark Helmet

How does the Headstage Arrow 3G stack up against current versions?


----------



## whatislife

dark helmet said:


> How does the Headstage Arrow 3G stack up against current versions?


I owned the 3g back when I was still using my dx50, and recently messed around with a friend's 5tx(?). The core sound is still very much...arrow-like, warm and not the most detailed, but the added feature of treble boost and bass boost have a cleaner effect to them imo, the stage 2 switch on the 3g made everything just go boom iirc, whereas the 5tx was more about a solid kick in the low frequencies.


----------



## Dark Helmet

whatislife said:


> I owned the 3g back when I was still using my dx50, and recently messed around with a friend's 5tx(?). The core sound is still very much...arrow-like, warm and not the most detailed, but the added feature of treble boost and bass boost have a cleaner effect to them imo, the stage 2 switch on the 3g made everything just go boom iirc, whereas the 5tx was more about a solid kick in the low frequencies.




Thanks for the info.


----------



## Jerryberry

Hi there i see that the 6 NX/TX is now up for order but will there also be an enhanced bass boost version that i can order ?When will this be released ?

Thanks


----------



## jmills8

jerryberry said:


> [COLOR=333333]Hi there i see that the 6 NX/TX is now up for order but will there also be an enhanced bass boost version that i can order ?When will this be released ?[/COLOR][COLOR=333333]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]Thanks[/COLOR]


yes


----------



## Jerryberry

jmills8 said:


> yes


 
 Oh great so how do i go about ordering this ? I do not see this option at the moment. 
  
 Thanks !


----------



## Jerryberry

Anyone out there know how i can go about ordering 6tx with *ENHANCED BASS BOOST  *? Please let me know !


----------



## jmills8

jerryberry said:


> Anyone out there know how i can go about ordering 6tx with *ENHANCED BASS BOOST  *? Please let me know !


 Go to its site Headstage.


----------



## jmills8

http://headstage.com/Arrow-6NX/6TX:::1023.html?XTCsid=f7c62a42175f6ad9f9424a4a163c27ed


----------



## Jerryberry

jmills8 said:


> Go to its site Headstage.


 
  
 I did that but no refference made to the enhance bass version ? Do you know something i dont


----------



## jmills8

jerryberry said:


> I did that but no refference made to the enhance bass version ? Do you know something i dont


Email Robert you want it in Bass Enhance version.


----------



## Jerryberry

jmills8 said:


> Email Robert you want it in Bass Enhance version.


 
  
 thanks buddy !!!


----------



## Jerryberry

jerryberry said:


> thanks buddy !!!


 
 Does robert live in germany btw do you know ? I guess he is german ?


----------



## jmills8

jerryberry said:


> Does robert live in germany btw do you know ? I guess he is german ?


usually yes but hes often in Hong Kong and China .


----------



## Pacman123

Does he have the 6TX ready yet?
  
 Been waiting to order


----------



## Jerryberry

There is the 6tx on his site now but the specs say 1200mh battery and not looks like the old version . I heard talk of twice the battery capacity and new stainless steel casing ? So what gives ? Also I have read on this forum crazy waiting times ? So what is it ? Has the service been improved ? I'm interested in the 6tx bass enhanced and I'm hoping I can order it and get it within a month or two max ?! I have emailed him but heard nothing ?


----------



## jmills8

jerryberry said:


> There is the 6tx on his site now but the specs say 1200mh battery and not looks like the old version . I heard talk of twice the battery capacity and new stainless steel casing ? So what gives ? Also I have read on this forum crazy waiting times ? So what is it ? Has the service been improved ? I'm interested in the 6tx bass enhanced and I'm hoping I can order it and get it within a month or two max ?! I have emailed him but heard nothing ?


One man company so mufht take a week for a reply. If that happens it might take 4 months to 6 months if things go well. Some will buy a Fiio and then wait. Patience helps.


----------



## Pacman123

Yeah I had emailed him a while back and he said it would ready by end of October but i doubt that, hopefully by the end of this year he's ready to start shipping.


----------



## Jerryberry

Wow ok i have a possibility to get a vorgz duo updated version for half its Price .. do u Think that a better proposition ? Since u guys mentioned its In the same class ?


----------



## jmills8

jerryberry said:


> Wow ok i have a possibility to get a vorgz duo updated version for half its Price .. do u Think that a better proposition ? Since u guys mentioned its In the same class ?


 Its not, I had two and sold both within a month. Mid sounding amp.


----------



## Jerryberry

So will u be ordering the 6tx too ? Well so I guess that I have to wait really patiently ! Does Robert plan to get better with waiting times ? I mean I would think it's just the rnd part that takes long and once set the production should be the easy part no ? And on his website it seems it's already in production ? I guess i will make do with my modest jlabs c5 

Though it says battery is only 1200 and nothing about stainless steel case ?


----------



## jmills8

Should start singibg a song about Waiting.


----------



## Jerryberry

jmills8 said:


> Should start singibg a song about Waiting.


 
 haha ,, this actually worries me in terms of service and warranty and the fact its a one man team which i can respect but in terms of support ? say vs the vorzuge which i have gotten immediate resposnses too .. i saw that you sold yours unused a few months back .. why did u buy it even ? im still torn between that one and this or maybe your 5tx


----------



## jmills8

jerryberry said:


> haha ,, this actually worries me in terms of service and warranty and the fact its a one man team which i can respect but in terms of support ? say vs the vorzuge which i have gotten immediate resposnses too .. i saw that you sold yours unused a few months back .. why did u buy it even ? im still torn between that one and this or maybe your 5tx


otc happens in forums


----------



## zolom

Can anyone compare the 5T/5Tx to the Chord Mojo (with sensitive IEMs)?
  
 Thanks


----------



## jmills8

zolom said:


> Can anyone compare the 5T/5Tx to the Chord Mojo (with sensitive IEMs)?
> 
> Thanks


I have all three.. What sort of music you going to be listening to? Arrow is much easier to use on the go. Mojo has a great dac and Arrow has a great amp and able to pin point boost the bass and treble.


----------



## zolom

Thanks
  
 Can you provide more detail about the audio quality of the 5Tx vs. Mojo? How is it's bass presentation against the 5Tx (at setting 1 and 2)?
  
 I usually listen to: Metal, Hard & Progressive rock as well as some Jazz variants. I stream music with TIDAL HiFi  via the S7 Edge and SE846 IEM.
  
 I own the 5Tx and like it a lot, I mostly use it at home, and for true portability I use the AQ Dragonfly Black.
 I heard a lot of good stuff about the Mojo and I'm curious about its audio signature against the 5Tx


----------



## jmills8

zolom said:


> Thanks
> 
> Can you provide more detail about the audio quality of the 5Tx vs. Mojo? How is it's bass presentation against the 5Tx (at setting 1 and 2)?
> 
> ...


Im listening to I Killed The Prom Queen and the Arrow can do it all and does it well. The Mojo has a slight better seperation but lacks bass punch. Mojo and phone one can eq the mojo with music apps. Both are great. If on the go the Arrow wins hands down.


----------



## zolom

Got the Mojo today. As mentioned above, it sounds great (more refined than the 5Tx), but lacks the 5Tx bass punch. So I connected the Mojo audio out to the 5Tx input. Ho! it sounds so great. 
I tried to set the Mojo to line_out mode, but it yields very very loud audio input to the 5Tx, so I set the Mojo to a lower volume (as well as my S7e source).


----------



## pkcpga

I wish the arrow had a better DAC, that really is its downfall. That's why the mojo wins out for me, even if the arrow has a better amp just a terrible DAC.


----------



## jmills8

pkcpga said:


> I wish the arrow had a better DAC, that really is its downfall. That's why the mojo wins out for me, even if the arrow has a better amp just a terrible DAC.


Hence many stack them.


----------



## pkcpga

jmills8 said:


> Hence many stack them.



For me it looses its portability and for home I have the chord Dave, for office I have the naim dac v1. So I've found little use for the arrow. I'd buy one again if they update it's DAC to something worth while at it's price point or at least have it as an upgrade option for an extra $100 or $200. For me the less bassy but still decent amp of the mojo has the more important drastically better DAC. Hopefully headstage updates their DAC soon, even the cheap dragon fly has a much better DAC.


----------



## jmills8

pkcpga said:


> For me it looses its portability and for home I have the chord Dave, for office I have the naim dac v1. So I've found little use for the arrow. I'd buy one again if they update it's DAC to something worth while at it's price point or at least have it as an upgrade option for an extra $100 or $200. For me the less bassy but still decent amp of the mojo has the more important drastically better DAC. Hopefully headstage updates their DAC soon, even the cheap dragon fly has a much better DAC.


 So you pop in this thread to bash the Arrow every two months and to retell that you have a Dave? You have said the same thing on many threads for the past year. For portable use and for its (Arrow) amp its better than the Mojo.The Arrow bass and treble boost is better than the Mojo. For bass, electronic and dance music the Arrow is better than the Mojo. The Mojos dac is better than the Arrows dac.Yes dor sitting at home alone the Dave is better.


----------



## pkcpga

jmills8 said:


> So you pop in this thread to bash the Arrow every two months and to retell that you have a Dave? You have said the same thing on many threads for the past year. For portable use and for its (Arrow) amp its better than the Mojo.The Arrow bass and treble boost is better than the Mojo. For bass, electronic and dance music the Arrow is better than the Mojo. The Mojos dac is better than the Arrows dac.Yes dor sitting at home alone the Dave is better.




I really liked my old arrow and wish he'd update the DAC so I can use the arrow again, I'm just disappointed he hasn't updated the dac in years while everyone else has. His dac technology has stood still for 5, 10 years while everyone else has kept up and I wish he got the hint and updates as well.


----------



## jmills8

pkcpga said:


> I really liked my old arrow and wish he'd update the DAC so I can use the arrow again, I'm just disappointed he hasn't updated the dac in years while everyone else has. His dac technology has stood still for 5, 10 years while everyone else has kept up and I wish he got the hint and updates as well.


Best to think of it as an amp. Forget its a dac.


----------



## zolom

jmills8 said:


> Best to think of it as an amp. Forget its a dac.


 
  
 Arrow 5Tx double amps the Chord Mojo
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-please-read-the-3rd-post/26055#post_13020992


----------



## jmills8

zolom said:


> Arrow 5Tx double amps the Chord Mojo
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-please-read-the-3rd-post/26055#post_13020992


----------



## nightrider75

Recently I've had to stop using IEM's. I've got my Headstage Arrow 5TX; may actually be my most prized possession.... Anyway are there any full size (really anything except IEM or OnEars) that you - or any reader for that matter - could suggest fir this amp in particular? My passer amps will work with mostly anything, but this really is the one I'm scouring the internet to find. 
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## r2muchstuff

I recently purchased HiFiMan Ed S and find that it works very well out of my Arrow 4G.  They are marketed as on ear but most folks tend to find that they are over ear, which they are for me.  I mostly use them "open", closed works, but isolation is not great. 
  
 Arrow 4G is paired with a FiiO X3ii and I run Apple Lossless.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## jmills8

nightrider75 said:


> Recently I've had to stop using IEM's. I've got my Headstage Arrow 5TX; may actually be my most prized possession.... Anyway are there any full size (really anything except IEM or OnEars) that you - or any reader for that matter - could suggest fir this amp in particular? My passer amps will work with mostly anything, but this really is the one I'm scouring the internet to find.
> 
> Thanks in advance


----------



## Jerryberry

Hi all new competitor in town esp for those that cannot wait any longer
  
 The NEW Vorzüge PRODUCT THREAD found below !
 *VorzAMP duo II™ "New"* 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/829189/vorzamp-duo-ii-new-high-end-headphone-amps-impressions-and-review-thread


----------



## damobananna

hey guys
  
 I am looking for a new amp so i can throw some more bass through my umpro50's just for fun, does any one know if the fiio e17k holds a candle to the arrow earlier models I can pick one up 2 doors away from me anytime i like for a fraction of the cost and it supports 24bit dac  or is the bass boost feature on the arrow really somthing special ? thanks for answering this is a big thread.


----------



## jmills8

damobananna said:


> hey guys
> 
> I am looking for a new amp so i can throw some more bass through my umpro50's just for fun, does any one know if the fiio e17k holds a candle to the arrow earlier models I can pick one up 2 doors away from me anytime i like for a fraction of the cost and it supports 24bit dac  or is the bass boost feature on the arrow really somthing special ? thanks for answering this is a big thread.


The Arrow is all around better except one cant buy an Arrow.


----------



## damobananna

how so?


----------



## jmills8

damobananna said:


> how so?


on the Arrow you can boost the bass only ONLY the sub bass or only mid bass or the full bass. You can boost the treble two boost stages. Thinner, volume is more precise. But the issue is waiting time and no email replies.


----------



## damobananna

ahh i see nah thats where I recon why buy new? , I am looking at second hand older models. do you know if the sq has improved over the generations or its more just the features I'm looking at a 2.2 or 3g because I dont think the bass boost on the 4g is what I am after, it supposedly gives a warmer or bloomier sound than the 3 and not sure about the 2.2 , the 2.2 I have found quite cheap tho


----------



## jmills8

damobananna said:


> ahh i see nah thats where I recon why buy new? , I am looking at second hand older models. do you know if the sq has improved over the generations or its more just the features I'm looking at a 2.2 or 3g because I dont think the bass boost on the 4g is what I am after, it supposedly gives a warmer or bloomier sound than the 3 and not sure about the 2.2 , the 2.2 I have found quite cheap tho


You do a lit of thinking. Im as happy with the 5P and 5TX as I am with my Hugo and Mojo. With headphones I use the Arrow.


----------



## damobananna

and the fiio is rubbish in comparison? im happy just driving with an ak junior atm but a well implimented bass switch would be a bit of fun i recon , thanks for being an ear


----------



## Sound Eq

i have an issue with head stage arrow that has been on going for 5 months now, if it does not get resolved within a month I will share my experience in details, I hope Robert reads this thread, or some one who know him.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Has anyone recieved the new Arrow 6NX or TX? 
  
Is the TX too warm for use with my Cowon Plenue M2 with a Burr-Brown PCM1795 ? Has anyone heard the difference between each model?
  
 Read whole thread and willing to wait but for how long.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Pacman123

Their not ready yet, last I saw he had the circuit boards done. I don't know what stage in the process that is but hopefully close to done. 

He changed a few things in the design so it's been delayed for awhile. I would expect a few more months.


----------



## jmills8




----------



## LoneRanger

jmills8 said:


>




Is that the new 6TX?

I've got the 5TX - is this new one worth the upgrade (if it is an upgrade)?

How long did you have to wait this time from order to delivery?


----------



## jmills8

loneranger said:


> Is that the new 6TX?
> 
> I've got the 5TX - is this new one worth the upgrade (if it is an upgrade)?
> 
> How long did you have to wait this time from order to delivery?


 Temp loaner until the 6TX.


----------



## PsiCore

Thread died?

Is the 6TX shipping already? Anyone has the enhanced bass version? How does it compare to the 5TX enhanced?

And from few pages back I see that the 6TX was supposed to costs 349$ and now it's 399$. Anyone knows why the price was raised?


----------



## jmills8

PsiCore said:


> Thread died?
> 
> Is the 6TX shipping already? Anyone has the enhanced bass version? How does it compare to the 5TX enhanced?
> 
> And from few pages back I see that the 6TX was supposed to costs 349$ and now it's 399$. Anyone knows why the price was raised?


I have three Arrow amps. One is a loaner  from Robert until I get the 6 arrives.


----------



## PsiCore

So here's the big question.

I have the Cayin C5 amp. It's said to be basshead's best friend. Yes, I like it a lot, but only the amp section. I don't like its bass boost that much, as it's too boomy for my tastes. I like boosting (a lot) subbass frequencies (below 60hz).
So is the Arrow's bass boost any good in that department?


----------



## jmills8

PsiCore said:


> So here's the big question.
> 
> I have the Cayin C5 amp. It's said to be basshead's best friend. Yes, I like it a lot, but only the amp section. I don't like its bass boost that much, as it's too boomy for my tastes. I like boosting (a lot) subbass frequencies (below 60hz).
> So is the Arrow's bass boost any good in that department?


The best, I had all the rest. You can boost only the sub bass if you desire that. Or you can boost the mid bass or full bass. You can also boost the treble which is great with the 2.5.


----------



## JDW

Quite a number of years ago, I ordered a Headstone *Lyrix*.  Robert shipped me a *Caffeine* instead, which isn't really a bad amp at all; but in 2012, Robert kindly wrote me that I could keep the amp and he would ship me an *Arrow G4* to complete my order (since I originally ordered the Lyrix, not the Caffeine).  Then in 2015, Robert sent me another email saying the following:

_If you like to get a new amp you may upgrade to the *Arrow 5TX* now. It has the AD8620 opamp and two BUF634 buffers on the output--configured in the famous Walter Jung topology with class-A biasing. The sound quality is better than your old amp. Besides this, the 5TX has a 65-step digital volume control, an USB DAC and a world-new “FREQ” switch to adjust the frequency range of the bass boost. (The DAC may connect to mobile phones or PC/Mac systems.)_

I never upgraded to that amp because I was satisfied with my Arrow G4.  Now it's 2017 and I am getting email updates from this thread again, and see some of you posting about the *Arrow 6TX*.  It's nice to see that Robert is continuing to innovate.  But as to whether I would upgrade from an Arrow G4 to a 6TX, that would depend on how noticeable the differences would be.  Does anyone have an Arrow G4 and newer models with which to compare (features and sound)?


----------



## PsiCore

Ok, I've officially joined the club (waiting for 6TX, in the meantime got loaner 5TX). This amp is for real! My god, this little (it's so tiny!) fella can pump some serious bass - WOW! The first amp I'm totally happy with after spending only half an hour.
But it's not only the bass, the whole spectrum sounds just fantastic coming from Cayin C5 (which isn't bad at all). Even the treble boost sounds really cool - might use is from time to time, although I prefer more a smooth/darkly sound.

One question, how is the power option supposed to work? When I put on A (automatic), is the light supposed to shut off, when I remove it from the source? If yes, how long does it take to shut it off?


----------



## jmills8

PsiCore said:


> Ok, I've officially joined the club (waiting for 6TX, in the meantime got loaner 5TX). This amp is for real! My god, this little (it's so tiny!) fella can pump some serious bass - WOW! The first amp I'm totally happy with after spending only half an hour.
> But it's not only the bass, the whole spectrum sounds just fantastic coming from Cayin C5 (which isn't bad at all). Even the treble boost sounds really cool - might use is from time to time, although I prefer more a smooth/darkly sound.
> 
> One question, how is the power option supposed to work? When I put on A (automatic), is the light supposed to shut off, when I remove it from the source? If yes, how long does it take to shut it off?


----------



## Tony51

PsiCore said:


> Ok, I've officially joined the club (waiting for 6TX, in the meantime got loaner 5TX). This amp is for real! My god, this little (it's so tiny!) fella can pump some serious bass - WOW! The first amp I'm totally happy with after spending only half an hour.
> But it's not only the bass, the whole spectrum sounds just fantastic coming from Cayin C5 (which isn't bad at all). Even the treble boost sounds really cool - might use is from time to time, although I prefer more a smooth/darkly sound.
> 
> One question, how is the power option supposed to work? When I put on A (automatic), is the light supposed to shut off, when I remove it from the source? If yes, how long does it take to shut it off?




Would you say that it sounds better than the cayin c5? or same?


----------



## PsiCore

Tony51 said:


> Would you say that it sounds better than the cayin c5? or same?



In the bass department - definitely better. The bass boost option is miles away from Cayin's, which I never liked that much.
Rest of the spectrum - will be hard to compare, as my Cayin died, but I would say it's also better. Maybe my brain's playing tricks , but from the first listen I was surprised with the clarity. And it that's not enough, the treble boost is really nice (I'm not a treblehead).
This is only the second time, when I was wowed right away (the first time was with the Audeze LCD-2F).


----------



## Kerouac (Sep 5, 2017)

PsiCore said:


> Ok, I've officially joined the club (waiting for 6TX, in the meantime got loaner 5TX). This amp is for real! My god, this little (it's so tiny!) fella can pump some serious bass - WOW! The first amp I'm totally happy with after spending only half an hour.
> But it's not only the bass, the whole spectrum sounds just fantastic coming from Cayin C5 (which isn't bad at all). Even the treble boost sounds really cool - might use is from time to time, although I prefer more a smooth/darkly sound.
> 
> One question, how is the power option supposed to work? When I put on A (automatic), is the light supposed to shut off, when I remove it from the source? If yes, how long does it take to shut it off?


I also have the Cayin C5 and an Arrow 5P, which I usually have connected (Crystal Piccolino IC) to a FiiO X5 (1st gen).
Amazing how such a small amp can deliver so much power. The 2 bass (gain + frequency) and treble switches on the Arrow amp also work great imo 

With my Arrow 5P it only takes a minute or so to turn off after it looses input.


Tony51 said:


> Would you say that it sounds better than the cayin c5? or same?


The Cayin C5 has a warmer signature to my ears, while the Arrow has a clearer signature with better extension.
To be honest I don't use the C5 that much anymore (only sometimes for full-size headphones)


----------



## jmills8

PsiCore said:


> In the bass department - definitely better. The bass boost option is miles away from Cayin's, which I never liked that much.
> Rest of the spectrum - will be hard to compare, as my Cayin died, but I would say it's also better. Maybe my brain's playing tricks , but from the first listen I was surprised with the clarity. And it that's not enough, the treble boost is really nice (I'm not a treblehead).
> This is only the second time, when I was wowed right away (the first time was with the Audeze LCD-2F).


The bass boost is great. You can boost only the sub bass if so desired. You can also boost the mid bass or full bass aswell. I use the Arrow with a Cowon P1 with the Fostex TH900.


----------



## Blommen

I freaking love my Arrow, even though I am selling it. It is so small and yet it does so much! The bass boost is so awesome, I think I will miss it


----------



## jmills8

Blommen said:


> I freaking love my Arrow, even though I am selling it. It is so small and yet it does so much! The bass boost is so awesome, I think I will miss it


You will, just wait and see.


----------



## JDW

Nobody replied to my previous post:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hea...ions-sensations.475499/page-266#post-13645096

 So I should ask the same question again.

*Does anyone have an Arrow G4 as well as a newer Arrow with which to compare? *

I ask this question to determine if there's any meaning for me to get one of the newer models versus the one I already have.


----------



## Blommen

jmills8 said:


> You will, just wait and see.


----------



## Tony51

Kerouac said:


> I also have the Cayin C5 and an Arrow 5P, which I usually have connected (Crystal Piccolino IC) to a FiiO X5 (1st gen).
> Amazing how such a small amp can deliver so much power. The 2 bass (gain + frequency) and treble switches on the Arrow amp also work great imo
> 
> With my Arrow 5P it only takes a minute or so to turn off after it looses input.
> ...


I going to have to keep the Arrow in mind for the future. It has to wait right now since I just purchased the newest Fiio X7 Mk2 player. It's in route to me.


----------



## jhog

Just pulled the trigger on a second hand 5TX after finally giving up on my Martin HVA portable tube amp, which I loved, barring its overly polite  bottom end and the endless, infuriating ringing from the valves.

Kind of excited having read the thread, really hoping this is going to have the warm, full sound I love, with a proper bass bump and genuine portability!

Anyone tried it with the LZ A4 or Fidelio X2??


----------



## JDW

I’m actually quite disappointed in this thread. You’d think with almost 265 pages that at least someone out there would be able to reply to my previous post or the one prior to that, yet not a single person has stepped forward. It’s quite sad and disconcerting.


----------



## Kerouac

JDW said:


> I’m actually quite disappointed in this thread. You’d think with almost 265 pages that at least someone out there would be able to reply to my previous post or the one prior to that, yet not a single person has stepped forward. It’s quite sad and disconcerting.


Well, it might be possible that there's not an active member around here, that has heard the Arrow G4 and a newer model (I've only heard the 5P myself) as well.
I don't think the _'no reply so far'_ is a personal thing against you.


----------



## JDW

But like I said, this thread is 267 pages, comprised of people who have various versions of the Arrow.   I think it’s therefor just another case of where people sometimes post in an online forum and then simply, for reasons unknown, stop posting thereafter. 

All I can do is continue to repeat the question...

*For those of you with more than one Arrow amp, how does the G4 model compared with newer models?*

Thank you.


----------



## Blommen

Kerouac said:


> Well, it might be possible that there's not an active member around here, that has heard the Arrow G4 and a newer model (I've only heard the 5P myself) as well.
> I don't think the _'no reply so far'_ is a personal thing against you.


Precisely!

Also, reason I didn't answer @jhog is that I am the one who sold it to him. And I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't bought a dap that cost 3000$ and needed to sell off a lot of stuff. I love that amp, it is seriously addictive. If the EQ of the Sony wasn't so good and didn't have balanced then...but no dap I have tried has better sound single ended than the 5tx,and the eq capabilities are unmatched to be honest. I would probably say that a good source paired with this is at least the level of Sony Wm1z single ended. Balanced is different


----------



## jhog

Blommen said:


> Precisely!
> 
> Also, reason I didn't answer @jhog is that I am the one who sold it to him. And I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't bought a dap that cost 3000$ and needed to sell off a lot of stuff. I love that amp, it is seriously addictive. If the EQ of the Sony wasn't so good and didn't have balanced then...but no dap I have tried has better sound single ended than the 5tx,and the eq capabilities are unmatched to be honest. I would probably say that a good source paired with this is at least the level of Sony Wm1z single ended. Balanced is different




Crikey, that is high praise indeed, I start to feel honored to have bought your little 5TX off you! I very nearly went for a Vorzuge, but am increasingly thinking I made the right call/ got lucky! 

Let's see when it turns up next week, I hope my stolidly midfi set up does it justice...


----------



## jmills8

jhog said:


> Crikey, that is high praise indeed, I start to feel honored to have bought your little 5TX off you! I very nearly went for a Vorzuge, but am increasingly thinking I made the right call/ got lucky!
> 
> Let's see when it turns up next week, I hope my stolidly midfi set up does it justice...


I had two Vorzuge amps whike I had three Arrows. Now I dont have the Vorzuges but I still have the Arrows.


----------



## jhog

Sooo... just spent the last day or so getting to know this amp (5TX Normal edition) and my first impression was.... disappointed. Coming from the Martin Hybrid Valve Amp (HVA) I wondered how anyone could think this little amp sounded tubey, I mean, where were all the lovely mids??! I had a moment of genuine, panicky buyers remorse. 

And then I found the bass frequency switch.

Good gravy! Pop that to M or H and the whole thing comes alive! It's glorious! The mids dance, the bass thumps (on 1, it positively rumbles away on 2, can't even imagine what the extended version must be like) and the treble switch turns my lovely but slightly dark Fidelio X2s into sparkly lusciousness. I now truly see how astonished people are at the versatility of such a tiny device - everything from rock to pop to classical to dub electro sounds breathtaking, with a quick fiddle of the switches. It's a cracker!

I do though have a question: what does the bass frequency switch actually do?? It appears to thicken and boost frequencies across the scale and to my mind makes a night and day difference, but I can't quite put my finger on the principle of it. Wiser minds than mine appreciated....

Thank you @Blommen, I'll treasure  this little pocket monster!


----------



## sargaso

Here is a freq response for the 5TX.


----------



## jmills8

jhog said:


> Sooo... just spent the last day or so getting to know this amp (5TX Normal edition) and my first impression was.... disappointed. Coming from the Martin Hybrid Valve Amp (HVA) I wondered how anyone could think this little amp sounded tubey, I mean, where were all the lovely mids??! I had a moment of genuine, panicky buyers remorse.
> 
> And then I found the bass frequency switch.
> 
> ...


You can boost only the sub bass or mid bass or full bass.


----------



## jhog

sargaso said:


> Here is a freq response for the 5TX.



Brilliant, super helpful, thanks!


----------



## sargaso

Does anyone know the status of the 6NX/6TX development?  I emailed Robert in December asking about the status and also that the headstage forums were down and all he replyed was that the forum software needed to be reloaded but nothing about the status.
Well here it is over half way thru January and its still down and no status updates.


----------



## jmills8

Im waiting. I have a loaner that he lent me 7 months ago.


----------



## PsiCore

jmills8 said:


> Im waiting. I have a loaner that he lent me 7 months ago.



Haha, same here. But I'm so happy with the loaner, that I don't mind waiting.


----------



## Rayzilla

PsiCore said:


> Haha, same here. But I'm so happy with the loaner, that I don't mind waiting.



It's like buying an amp/dac and getting a free upgrade to the latest model after a year. Can't beat that offer.


----------



## 2501

And now the headstage website seems to have closed down, along with his mail hosting, leaving me (us) with no way to contact him anymore. Things are not looking great, and I think I have been very patient (almost 16 months) since I opted for the upgrade from 5TN to 6TX, due to the former being faulty. 

Does anyone know of an alternate way to get in touch with him?


----------



## Tinnitus Man

Robert is still the current owner of the domain name, which expires next month.  I can't see how long the website has been down for, but the domain registration was last updated last December.

I have a working 5TX that I'll probably be selling at some point, if anyone is remotely interested...


----------



## Tony51

2501 said:


> And now the headstage website seems to have closed down, along with his mail hosting, leaving me (us) with no way to contact him anymore. Things are not looking great, and I think I have been very patient (almost 16 months) since I opted for the upgrade from 5TN to 6TX, due to the former being faulty.
> 
> Does anyone know of an alternate way to get in touch with him?


The waiting is so ridiculously long, it is why I never jumped on the bandwagon. It's a one man army while holding 4 hundred dollars of your money. No thanks!
Tony


----------



## Tinnitus Man

Having said that, he did make exceedingly nice portable amps....


----------



## jmills8

Tony51 said:


> The waiting is so ridiculously long, it is why I never jumped on the bandwagon. It's a one man army while holding 4 hundred dollars of your money. No thanks!
> Tony


Many did get loaner amps whike they wait.


----------



## jmills8




----------



## Tony51

jmills8 said:


> Many did get loaner amps whike they wait.


Yes, but not the one you purchased. Months and months of wait. Crazy. Then Robert answers when he wants. Why don't they hire more people and get this business going? I don't get it.
Tony


----------



## jmills8

Tony51 said:


> Yes, but not the one you purchased. Months and months of wait. Crazy. Then Robert answers when he wants. Why don't they hire more people and get this business going? I don't get it.
> Tony


I agree with you.


----------



## Tinnitus Man

He's an eccentric genius. He probably has a day job.


----------



## DonChuy

I think the website www.headstage.com and www.headstage.eu are working again (please try). The support club link is still not working. I sent an email to mail@headstage.com and info@headphonia.com and this time the server didn't bounce back the email. It looks like we are back in business with Robert, we just need to keep our fingers crossed so that the 6TX ships soon. Please email Robert and report back to this thread if you hear any news from him. Thanks.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Tinnitus Man said:


> Robert is still the current owner of the domain name, which expires next month.  I can't see how long the website has been down for, but the domain registration was last updated last December.
> 
> I have a working 5TX that I'll probably be selling at some point, if anyone is remotely interested...


Just saw this now, and very interested. Looking for a warm, detailed portable amp


----------



## Tinnitus Man

Devodonaldson said:


> Just saw this now, and very interested. Looking for a warm, detailed portable amp



Sorry, you're a day too late.  I sold mine yesterday.  There's more interest than I thought there would be.


----------



## zolom

My 5TX, cannot be charged (no blinking green led). 
Please advice


----------



## jhog

I’ve never had the problem, but I know some people have had their batteries fried by chargers with too higher voltage, at which point you need to get it replaced by Robert, which by all accounts can take a while...


----------



## zolom (May 7, 2018)

Very strange.  I did experince problems in charging the 5TX.  I did encounter that with 3 different cables and 2 phone chargers (both marked as ~2A at the output) , one of them used as my regular charger for the 5TX,  till now.
Today I found another charger,  marked with 1A at the output,  and viola, the 5TX seems to charge again (green light blinking). I am waiting for my unit to fully charge.

I cannot understand what got wrong with my previous setup?  The previous chargers were not Fast Chargers,  so no over voltage issue was there.
I will appriciate your opinion.
Thanks

Edit:  almost 4 hours of charging,  green light still blinking. Does not seem to actually charge the battery.  Still no answer from Robert.

Edit: sent my 5TX for repair. Thank you Robert for your quick response and support


----------



## Luckbad

I can now confirm that the Headstage Arrow 6TX is finally starting to ship. I believe I saw that someone has a 6NX as well.

Quick first impressions: Even better than the 5TX. Super portable, better at powering full-sized headphones than its predecessor, really nice finish.

It uses a USB C connection (there's a USB A-C adapter with it).

The 6TX doesn't seem to have an auto function for power, although I never found that necessary in the 5TX.

Front connections/controls:

Headphone Output
Line In
Gain (0, I, II)
Volume (digital, no channel imbalance)
Rear connections/controls:

USB C
Line In
Treble (0, I, II)
Bass (0, I, II)
Bass Frequency (L, M, H)
I've dealt with Robert before and he's a good guy with a pretty impressive ability to make tiny powerhouses, but he has trouble with parts suppliers, customer communication, etc.


----------



## gikigill

Any info on 6TX/NX power specs and if they justify a move from the 4N.

I am looking for an upgrade for the 4N but need concrete specs before I commit.


----------



## Tony51 (Jun 2, 2018)

gikigill said:


> Any info on 6TX/NX power specs and if they justify a move from the 4N.
> 
> I am looking for an upgrade for the 4N but need concrete specs before I commit.



I asked Robert and he couldn't provide me none other than it will run high impedance cans. He doesnt know his own specs?>>>>hmmm


----------



## gr8soundz (Jun 3, 2018)

Luckbad said:


> I can now confirm that the Headstage Arrow 6TX is finally starting to ship. I believe I saw that someone has a 6NX as well.
> 
> Quick first impressions: Even better than the 5TX. Super portable, better at powering full-sized headphones than its predecessor, really nice finish.
> 
> ...



Do you know if the 6TX is compatible with balanced TRRS on the output side (like the Oppo HA-2, Sony ZX2, or iFi XCan xDSD)?


----------



## Luckbad

gr8soundz said:


> Do you know if the 6TX is compatible with balanced TRRS on the output side (like the Oppo HA-2, Sony ZX2, or iFi XCan)?


I highly doubt it unless it's listed on the site.


----------



## DonChuy (Jun 8, 2018)

Hi, this week I received my 6TX and I'm still in the honeymoon stage. The build quality is great!. I don't use it with full size cans which is one of the strongest points of the 6TX, so comparing the 6TX vs 5TX with iems, it's very similar, warm sound, good soundstage and nobody can match the portability and the ability to eq the bass and treble. Here is a picture of my setup. I have a 5TX available for sale since I won't need both of them, PM me if interested.


----------



## zolom (Jun 11, 2018)

I got interested in upgrading my 5TX extra bass (currently sent for repair by Robert).
Just wonder about the Bass compatibility to the 5TX extra bass. Is the current 6TX (no bass extension) Bass settings sufficient for me? I usually used to configure my 5TX with extra bass 5TX in the following manner: Treble - "I "or "II", Bass - mostly "I" and Frequency - all, none were set to "0".

I intend to use the 6TX with my Chord Mojo to extend its somewhat "brighter" sound signature.

I will appreciate an answer from someone who had tried both the 5TX extra bass and the new 6TX

Thanks


----------



## zolom (Jul 31, 2018)

Just receive the 6TX.    
Checking it now. Initial impression GREAT! 
Thanks Robert


----------



## Tony51

zolom said:


> Just receive the 6TX.
> Checking it now. Initial impression GREAT!
> Thanks Robert


Keep us posted.


----------



## zolom (Aug 1, 2018)

My initial experience with the 6TX is very positive, it is similar (in all details) with the extended review posted by *okwchin* here , so no need to repeat.

I decided to upgrade from  5TX, after the older unit had stopped charging and sent for repair.
The 6TX provides similar audio quality as the 5TX, with a safer charging circuit.

My 6TX (amp mode) is connected to the output of Chord Mojo, the source is LG V30+, Tidal (HiFi) UAPP (set to bit-perfect), with the Shure SE846 IEMs. I use the 6TX to enhance the bass impact of the brighter sound Mojo. A winning combination as far as I perceive.
The 6TX DAC sounds fantastic as well.


----------



## jhog

Hey all,

Got a Headstage Arrow 5TX up for sale in the amps forum if anyone interested. Standard Bass version, used, but great overall condition. Will miss it, but have changed my source so don’t use it as much as it deserves...


----------



## szymonsays

I'm assuming the person running Headstage is apparently very difficult to get ahold of? I tried emailing and sending a private message on facebook over the weekend to see when the 6NX would be in stock again, but i haven't heard anything yet.


----------



## jmills8

szymonsays said:


> I'm assuming the person running Headstage is apparently very difficult to get ahold of? I tried emailing and sending a private message on facebook over the weekend to see when the 6NX would be in stock again, but i haven't heard anything yet.


Yep


----------



## Tony51 (Nov 7, 2018)

szymonsays said:


> I'm assuming the person running Headstage is apparently very difficult to get ahold of? I tried emailing and sending a private message on facebook over the weekend to see when the 6NX would be in stock again, but i haven't heard anything yet.



Before you dump your hard earned money on this amp keep something in mind. It seems that Robert is running a one man army with these portable amps, he's very difficult to get a hold of. The amp has no specific specs shown anywhere, when asked Robert simply states that it is powerful enough. The amp seems to be surrounded by a small group of buyers that seem to be loyal to the seller. The amp has never been compared to other cheaper selling amps, the wait is crazy and when asked how long it will take to get one, Robert will never give you a straight answer, he will simply tell you that he will send you a lower model while you wait for the one you ordered. It will take months and months later to even over a year, waiting for an amp that has cost you 425.00 bucks. Crazy!! I highly doubt this amp sounds better than very popular and renound Fiio E12 or A5 amp at only 129.00.
Also, I have suggested Robert to allow a wide review of his amp to the popular reviewers out there on YouTube but he has yet to do it. To me he is trying to justify a big tab amp that ain't worth more than 130 bucks, so let's keep it close circuit so the real deal doesn't get out. I gave up on trying to purchase this amp. Before I purchase a big overpriced item, I need some facts and Robert has never answered clearly. No youtube reviews, no specific specs, no comparisons, long long waits with no email responses as to status and all the while you have 425.00 tide up for months on end. Imagine a break down. Not for me.


----------



## jmills8

Tony51 said:


> Before you dump your hard earned money on this amp keep something in mind. It seems that Robert is running a one man army with these portable amps, he's very difficult to get a hold of. The amp has no specific specs shown anywhere, when asked robRob simply states that it is powerful enough. The amp seems to be surrounded by a small group of buyers that seem to be loyal to the seller. The amp has never been compared to other cheaper selling amps, the wait is crazy and when asked how long it will take to get one, Robert will never give you a straight answer, he will simply tell you that he will send you a lower model while you wait for the one you ordered. It will take months and months later to even over a year, waiting for an amp that has cost you 425.00 buvks. Crazy!! I highly doubt this amp sounds better than very popular and renound Fiio E12 or A5 amp at only 129.00.
> Also, I have suggested Robert to allow a wide review of his amp to the popular reviewers out there on YouTube but he has yet to do it. To me he is trying to justify a big tab amp that ain't worth more than 130 bucks, so let's keep it close circuit so the real deal doesn't get out. I gave up on trying to purchase this amp. Before I purchase a big overpriced item, I need some facts and Robert has never answered clearly. No youtube reviews, no specific specs, no comparisons, long long waits with no email responses as to status and all the while you have 425.00 tide up for months on end. Imagine a break down. Good luck buddy not for me.


I bought 4 of them and its way better than any fiio, cayin, and vorzuge amps. I had those. I use it even more than the Mojo, hugo and ifi amps.


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## jhog

Tony51 said:


> Before you dump your hard earned money on this amp keep something in mind. It seems that Robert is running a one man army with these portable amps, he's very difficult to get a hold of. The amp has no specific specs shown anywhere, when asked Robert simply states that it is powerful enough. The amp seems to be surrounded by a small group of buyers that seem to be loyal to the seller. The amp has never been compared to other cheaper selling amps, the wait is crazy and when asked how long it will take to get one, Robert will never give you a straight answer, he will simply tell you that he will send you a lower model while you wait for the one you ordered. It will take months and months later to even over a year, waiting for an amp that has cost you 425.00 bucks. Crazy!! I highly doubt this amp sounds better than very popular and renound Fiio E12 or A5 amp at only 129.00.
> Also, I have suggested Robert to allow a wide review of his amp to the popular reviewers out there on YouTube but he has yet to do it. To me he is trying to justify a big tab amp that ain't worth more than 130 bucks, so let's keep it close circuit so the real deal doesn't get out. I gave up on trying to purchase this amp. Before I purchase a big overpriced item, I need some facts and Robert has never answered clearly. No youtube reviews, no specific specs, no comparisons, long long waits with no email responses as to status and all the while you have 425.00 tide up for months on end. Imagine a break down. Not for me.



As someone who picked up (and recently traded) a 5TX, and who has thus avoided the evident frustrations of endless wait times etc, maybe I can give my own, slightly objective (if such a thing exists in this hobby...), but entirely unscientific view: It IS a good little amp, streets ahead of my entry amps, including a C&C BH2, and HVA portable tube amp. Its bass boost is very nicely implemented, as indeed is the treble - am sure a lot of this could be done through eq-ing your amp, but I loved the hardware switches, and it definitely took the sound quality on my Fiio X3ii up several notches, in turns of energy, slam and musicality. It also drove my 300ohm senns comfortably.  Its size makes it eminently stackable (in fact its almost too small to stack with some DAPs) and it feels fairly bullet-proof.  I do not however think it's a world-beater. I much prefer my ALO Continental V2, just for sheer musical pleasure, and I personally felt that the Headstage Arrow didn't do enough to the sound with my new DAP, the Pioneer XDP300r, to be worth keeping, so I traded it on. Would I wait a year to buy one? Nope. Would I definitely get the latest model unless it had specific functionality I needed? Probably not, most reports say the different models sound very similar. Is it worth picking up in the right circumstances? Absolutely, yes.

Hope this of help!


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## zolom (Nov 11, 2018)

Had the 5TX (enhanced Bass) for a long while. Now I have the 6TX. I did have/had several amps and amp/dacs (the Shadow, Fiio: e17, e18, e11; tried the A5; now I have the Dragonfly Red and the Chord Mojo), Both 5TX and 6TX were superior to any FiiO item I had listened to. I used the 5TX as a bass enhancer to the Dragonfly. Now I use the 6TX as a bass enhancer to the (slightly brighter) Chord Mojo, with much improved results (I am a bass head).

I am waiting to replace my 6TX with the 6TX enhanced bass.

As far as I know, it was worth it to wait the long periods until I had got those marvelous gadgets.


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## jmills8

zolom said:


> Had the 5TX (enhanced Bass) for a long while. Now I have the 6TX. also have/had several amps and amp/dacs (the Shadow, Fiio: e17, e18, e11; tried the A5; also I have the Dragonfly Red and the Chord Mojo), Both 5TX and 6TX were superior to any FiiO item I had listened to. I used the 5TX as a bass enhancer to the Dragonfly. Now I use the 6TX as a bass enhancer to the (slightly brighter) Chord Mojo, with much improved results.
> I am waiting to replace my 6TX with the 6TX enhanced bass.
> 
> As far as I know, it was worth it to wait the long periods until I had got those marvelous gadgets.


Agree


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## PsiCore

zolom said:


> Had the 5TX (enhanced Bass) for a long while. Now I have the 6TX.



How does 6tx compare to 5tx? I have the 
5tx enhanced Bass version and wondering if it makes sense to upgrade.


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## zolom (Nov 15, 2018)

The 6tx sounds very similar to the 5tx. According to Robert it has a more secured charging circuit.
I did move to the 6tx,  after my 5tx had stopped charging. Now I am wating for the 6tx extended bass.
Keep your 5tx extended bass.


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## Sound Eq

I am supposed to get the arrow 6TX as a replacement to my 5tx that got damaged, I really like headstage amps I hope Robert can send it to me soon


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## waytoodeep03

zolom said:


> My initial experience with the 6TX is very positive, it is similar (in all details) with the extended review posted by *okwchin* here , so no need to repeat.
> 
> I decided to upgrade from  5TX, after the older unit had stopped charging and sent for repair.
> The 6TX provides similar audio quality as the 5TX, with a safer charging circuit.
> ...




Does the dac in this interfere with the dac in the v30?

What about crosstalk or distortion if you hold your phone close to the amp?


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## zolom (Feb 19, 2019)

My settings: USB audio player pro (uapp) ,  v30+ usb,  chord mojo (the DAC), 6TX (amp), shure se846 (iem).
I did not notice any distortion,  nor crosstalk,  even when putting my phone over the mojo or 6tx.
Regarding the v30 internal dac,  I guess it is bypassed by the usb audio,  as well as the uapp drivers.


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## PsiCore

Guys, how do you usually use your Arrow? As an AMP or as a DAC? What do you find sounding better and why?


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## jmills8

PsiCore said:


> Guys, how do you usually use your Arrow? As an AMP or as a DAC? What do you find sounding better and why?


Well ny Cayin N8 and Cowon PL both have good dacs , so In just using the extra punch from the Arrow.


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## zolom

Robert, please return to me regarding my 6TX sent to Hong Kong
Thanks


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## jmills8

Hello , I am looking to buy an Arrow amp , is there anybody willing to sell me one ? Thanks.


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## DonChuy

I have a 5TX that I can sell. PM me if you are I interested.


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## jmills8

DonChuy said:


> I have a 5TX that I can sell. PM me if you are I interested.


Sent , thxs


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## jmills8

Hello , Im looking for an Arrow amp to buy. Im ready to pay , send me your offer. Thanks.


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## Quartex

jmills8 said:


> Hello , Im looking for an Arrow amp to buy. Im ready to pay , send me your offer. Thanks.


Which version?


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## jmills8

Quartex said:


> Which version?


Any


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## Quartex

jmills8 said:


> Any


My apologies. I mistakenly thought I had a V4 left over. Which I don't as I just found out.


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## Tony51

Quartex said:


> Which version?



Always wanted to try an Arrow amp, but the seller nor anyone has been able to provide the full power out numbers of the amp. I refuse to purchase blind.
Tony


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## jmills8

Tony51 said:


> Always wanted to try an Arrow amp, but the seller nor anyone has been able to provide the full power out numbers of the amp. I refuse to purchase blind.
> Tony


True , stick to your rules.


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## Tony51 (Dec 9, 2019)

jmills8 said:


> True , stick to your rules.


Exactly, the wait is very long, the seller pops up to answer a couple of questions only for futher wait. I asked him to give me full detail of the product since it comes from china, the wait is months to get it, its very expensive  at 420.00 bucks. Hes responds was, its powerful....sorry, that doesnt cut it.
I also suggested to give one to a reputable youtube audio reviewers like Zeos, Joshua Valour, and he said, that's a thought. However never did carry it out. So, we are all still in the dark. 420.00 small portable amp better come with true audiophile sound and power before i bite.
Tony


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## jmills8

Tony51 said:


> Exactly, the wait is very long, the seller pops up to answer a couple of questions only for futher wait. I asked him to give me full detail of the product since it comes from china, the wait is months to get it, its very expensive  at 420.00 bucks. Hes responds was, its powerful....sorry, that doesnt cut it.
> I also suggested to give one to off the reputable youtube audio reviewers like Zeos, Joshua Valour, and he said, that's a thought. However never did carry it out. So, we are all still in the dark. 420.00 small portable amp better come with true audiophile sound and power before i bite.
> Tony


Well hes from Germany , he comes to China to get the parts and puts it together. Think he is not making anymore amps.


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## Quartex

Tony51 said:


> Always wanted to try an Arrow amp, but the seller nor anyone has been able to provide the full power out numbers of the amp. I refuse to purchase blind.
> Tony


I understand. I was in a similar siutation and took the risk, based on good reviews here and my gut feeling (not the ideal justification for a purchase decision, I know). And my expectations were exceeded. Re. power out: It most easily drives the HE-560 (impedance of 45 ohm).

Regarding Robert's feedback / answering: He was very quick, kind & helpful in my case. Therefore, all in all, my entire experience around Arrow Heads was great and I'm a happy customer. It's just that I don't use the Headstage very often, these days. It's glued to my Onkyo DP-X1 and I get all the joy from the DX229. During the holidays, I will connect the Headstage with the ibasso - just to see what will happen. Since I think the DX229 is a perfectly tuned gem by itself, I don't want to mess up with its signature (by hooking it up to an external amp) ...


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## Tony51

Quartex said:


> I understand. I was in a similar siutation and took the risk, based on good reviews here and my gut feeling (not the ideal justification for a purchase decision, I know). And my expectations were exceeded. Re. power out: It most easily drives the HE-560 (impedance of 45 ohm).
> 
> Regarding Robert's feedback / answering: He was very quick, kind & helpful in my case. Therefore, all in all, my entire experience around Arrow Heads was great and I'm a happy customer. It's just that I don't use the Headstage very often, these days. It's glued to my Onkyo DP-X1 and I get all the joy from the DX229. During the holidays, I will connect the Headstage with the ibasso - just to see what will happen. Since I think the DX229 is a perfectly tuned gem by itself, I don't want to mess up with its signature (by hooking it up to an external amp) ...



Thanks for the response. How well would it run 300 ohms hd600/650? How much would you be asking?
Tony


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## Quartex

Tony51 said:


> Thanks for the response. How well would it run 300 ohms hd600/650? How much would you be asking?
> Tony


I really don't know. The HE-560 is my highest impedance can. I can only imagine 300 Ohm is a bit too much, but that's guessing.

I don't have one to sell - that was a mistake. Apologies.


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## DonChuy

@jmills8 

I have this one available for sale. It’s an Arrow but not the 5TX version. See below ( it’s in excellent condition) and let me know if you are interested.


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## Lopsy1

jmills8 said:


> Any





jmills8 said:


> Hello , I am looking to buy an Arrow amp , is there anybody willing to sell me one ? Thanks.


I have 5Tx in perfect condition. Used only for short time. Sits in the drawer as I'm using Bluetooth earphones now.


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## jmills8

Lopsy1 said:


> I have 5Tx in perfect condition. Used only for short time. Sits in the drawer as I'm using Bluetooth earphones now.


Pmd


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## jmills8

DonChuy said:


> @jmills8
> 
> I have this one available for sale. It’s an Arrow but not the 5TX version. See below ( it’s in excellent condition) and let me know if you are interested.


Pmd


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## Tony51

jmills8 said:


> Well hes from Germany , he comes to China to get the parts and puts it together. Think he is not making anymore amps.



He went broke trying to be one man's army?. Basically being stupid. There's no promotional articles found about his product that can be looked up, no youtube reviews, no write ups about the details of the product. The only thing dummy had, was his followers that bit on his unknown product. If hes not making anymore amps its probably for being stupid. Didn't know how to sell his product.


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## jmills8

Tony51 said:


> He went broke trying to be one man's army?. Basically being stupid. There's no promotional articles found about his product that can be looked up, no youtube reviews, no write ups about the details of the product. The only thing dummy had, was his followers that bit on his unknown product. If hes not making anymore amps its probably for being stupid. Didn't know how to sell his product.


Ok thats your view. Been using high end portable gear , bought every portable amp , every. Been using six Arrow amps for four years with no issues. Its amp is better than German portable amps , better than Fiio , better than Chord , better than ifi.


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## Tony51

jmills8 said:


> Ok thats your view. Been using high end portable gear , bought every portable amp , every. Been using six Arrow amps for four years with no issues. Its amp is better than German portable amps , better than Fiio , better than Chord , better than ifi.



And still no numbers, no description, power, op, chip, etc. Running blind at a whopping 420.00. Ouch. Like i said only his followers that took the plunge respond.


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## jmills8

Tony51 said:


> And still no numbers, no description, power, op, chip, etc. Running blind at a whopping 420.00. Ouch. Like i said only his followers that took the plunge respond.


Understood , you posted your issue multiple times , why continue ? You never even heard it son.


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## PsiCore

What's the best replacement for an Arrow (enhanced bass edition)?
Apart from a new one


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## jmills8

PsiCore said:


> What's the best replacement for an Arrow (enhanced bass edition)?
> Apart from a new one


For mainly on the go ?


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## jhog

Vorzuge Duo. Upgrade I'd say


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## jmills8

jhog said:


> Vorzuge Duo. Upgrade I'd say


Ooo boy , I had 2 of them. Bass wise not an upgrade. Vorzuge bass is more MID bass and its bass boost is if off mid bass when on blast mid bass. Size its bigger like 4 Arrows to one Vorzuge. All in all the Vorzuge is good and good enough for Rock etc , but not really an upgrade but a side grade.


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## jhog

Better flexibility on the Arrow bass, and it is I grant you well implemented, but I significantly prefer the baseline sq of the Vorzuge, seems more spacious to me, with better detail retrieval. I also prefer the analogue pot and switch set up on the Vorzuge. Horses for courses, of course(s)! 


jmills8 said:


> Ooo boy , I had 2 of them. Bass wise not an upgrade. Vorzuge bass is more MID bass and its bass boost is if off mid bass when on blast mid bass. Size its bigger like 4 Arrows to one Vorzuge. All in all the Vorzuge is good and good enough for Rock etc , but not really an upgrade but a side grade.


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## PsiCore

jmills8 said:


> For mainly on the go ?



Mainly for office, but would appreciate if it's not a brick 
And I prefer subbass enhancement (using only L on Arrow), therefore I guess Vorzuge is a no go.


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## jmills8

PsiCore said:


> Mainly for office, but would appreciate if it's not a brick
> And I prefer subbass enhancement (using only L on Arrow), therefore I guess Vorzuge is a no go.


Its rare to get an amp that pushes only the sub bass like the Arrow. The dap is also important .


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## PsiCore

jmills8 said:


> Its rare to get an amp that pushes only the sub bass like the Arrow. The dap is also important .



As long as the amp doesn't push more mid bass than subbass than I'm fine with pushing a bit of mid.


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## jmills8

jhog said:


> Better flexibility on the Arrow bass, and it is I grant you well implemented, but I significantly prefer the baseline sq of the Vorzuge, seems more spacious to me, with better detail retrieval. I also prefer the analogue pot and switch set up on the Vorzuge. Horses for courses, of course(s)!


The most important thing is what you believe and that will make you happy. Glad you are enjoying the Vorzuge. Its nice to be able to easily buy that amp. Think its impossible to get an Arrow. Ifi has a smaller amp , ican , its ok in balance.


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## jmills8

PsiCore said:


> As long as the amp doesn't push more mid bass than subbass than I'm fine with pushing a bit of mid.


Ifi has a smaller version of the Bl with bass boost. Not the nano.


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## Leander7777

Hello, if anyone is interested, I have a headstage arrow 4g for sale. It is quite old by now but hasn’t been used much. The battery life is still excellent. PM me if interested. Will ship globally at buyer’s expense.


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## xoxiax (Mar 19, 2020)

Hi friends.
Excavating deep in my closets (coronavirus effects) i found an arrow 4 that i thought that had lost. Ans i have a question for you, because soon i'll receive an Audeze lcd2 classic. Has someone here tried them together (i would connect it to a sony zx300). Would it be enough to move the Audezes (as a portable option that could allow me to move around the house...)?
Thanks in advance for your answers!


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## jmills8

xoxiax said:


> Hi friends.
> Excavating deep in my closets (coronavirus effects) i found an arrow 4 that i thought that had lost. Ans i have a question for you, because soon i'll receive an Audeze lcd2 classic. Has someone here tried them together (i would connect it to a sony zx300). Would it be enough to move the Audezes (as a portable option that could allow me to move around the house...)?
> Thanks in advance for your answers!


It can but not to the LCDs full potential .


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## xoxiax

Well, i'll see and share my impressions, although the most similar thing to a stationary device that i own is the Apogee Duet, so maybe i'll be lacking in references about what the "full potential" is...


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## feverfive (Aug 1, 2020)

I likewise recently "found" my old Arrow 4G in a box.  It's probably been at least 3 years since I last used it.  I charged it up, and this baby still cooks!!  When I last used it more regularly, I used it as the pic I took yesterday below shows:  with an attached Meridian Explorer USB DAC with my laptop.  This combo still works pretty damn well.  I really have no use for such a setup now, but it was fun to think back to the time I used this; good times.


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## gikigill

feverfive said:


> I likewise recently "found" my old Arrow 4G in a box.  It's probably been at least 3 years since I last used it.  I charged it up, and this baby still cooks!!  When I last used it more regularly, I used it as the pic I took yesterday below shows:  with an attached Meridian Explorer USB DAC with my laptop.  This combo still works pretty damn well.  I really have no use for such a setup now, but it was fun to think back to the time I used this; good times.



Are you selling the Arrow 4G?


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## feverfive

gikigill said:


> Are you selling the Arrow 4G?


I haven't really thought about it.  If I do, I'll likely sell it as a package deal with the Meridian Explorer to which it is attached (using that sticky, non-residue-leaving stuff; like what is used for those plastic wall hooks).  I probably should.  It's a shame that it doesn't get used.


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## gikigill

Let me know and we can work something out.


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## musicinmymind

gikigill said:


> Let me know and we can work something out.



Interesting!!!

I thought Arrow 4G is old model and no one cares about in 2020


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## gikigill

I used to have the 4G and it was brilliant with my IEMs.


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## jmills8




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## gikigill

Is that nickel plated?

Looks cool I must admit.


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## InsideTM

Does anyone know if Headstage are still going? I've been using my 4G for years but I tried the website recently and it seems to be down.

The reason I was looking at the website is I'm having some trouble with it. I've just switched from an iPod classic to Sony NW-A55 but now the Arrow just cuts out after a couple of minutes. It's a massive tease as those few minutes are audio bliss with incredible subs when combined with the eq of on the Sony!

Has anyone had something similar?


----------



## musicinmymind

InsideTM said:


> Does anyone know if Headstage are still going? I've been using my 4G for years but I tried the website recently and it seems to be down.
> 
> The reason I was looking at the website is I'm having some trouble with it. I've just switched from an iPod classic to Sony NW-A55 but now the Arrow just cuts out after a couple of minutes. It's a massive tease as those few minutes are audio bliss with incredible subs when combined with the eq of on the Sony!
> 
> Has anyone had something similar?



Time to change battery


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## InsideTM

musicinmymind said:


> Time to change battery



Was thinking that myself but have absolutely no clue about electrics! Does the arrow use a common one / can it be done easily (for someone who knows what they're doing) or would have to be returned to Robert?


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## zolom

Robert.  What about my 6TX,  sent to you more than a year ago? 

Please return to me ASAP!


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## ANDEROAN

InsideTM said:


> Was thinking that myself but have absolutely no clue about electrics! Does the arrow use a common one / can it be done easily (for someone who knows what they're doing) or would have to be returned to Robert?



yes I just replaced the battery in an older Arrow, all you need is a star tool not sure what size as I used the one Robert sent with mine, but take out the screws from the top, and slide the unit out, take of the tape, pop off the connector, and then reverse with the new battery, getting a star tool will be the hardest part, the rest is self explanatory, here's the battery I used to replace it with, 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ICP0534500...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 

which is the exact same one, Robert was great with that, he used common stuff where he could, so it's easily replaced, unfortunately I am pretty sure Robert is out of the picture, no ones heard from him for a long time, his website is down, and his last run was cut short, 

but if your in the states and want me to, I could replace the battery for you, but it is really very easy to do, all you have to do is what I mentioned,


----------



## InsideTM

Thanks so much for that Anderoan, thought that might the case with easily replaced bits from what I remember when I got this one.

Such a shame about Robert, it really is an excellent piece of kit. I've asked this on the recommendations board but what would be the best alternative in case mine ever goes completely?


----------



## zolom

I did send my new TX6 to Robert many months ago, for bass extension.
Since then Robert went under the radar and my 6TX was never returned.  No matter how many messages were sent.
*Beaware of doing any business with this person! *


----------



## jmills8

zolom said:


> I did send my new TX6 to Robert many months ago, for bass extension.
> Since then Robert went under the radar and my 6TX was never returned.  No matter how many messages were sent.
> *Beaware of doing any business with this person! *


I think its closed


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## InsideTM

Gutted about the closure although not that surprised.

So it turns out the battery in my 4G is fine - seen as the problem only started when I switched DAP I put the arrow back on the iPod and it works fine.

Current best guess is that it the arrow doesn't like the 3.5mm to 3.5mm I've been using to connect it with the Sony. I use a connector from the iPod charging point to the 3.5mm on the Arrow so hopefully getting a custom adapter will save me!


----------



## phntmsmshr

InsideTM said:


> Gutted about the closure although not that surprised.
> 
> So it turns out the battery in my 4G is fine - seen as the problem only started when I switched DAP I put the arrow back on the iPod and it works fine.
> 
> Current best guess is that it the arrow doesn't like the 3.5mm to 3.5mm I've been using to connect it with the Sony. I use a connector from the iPod charging point to the 3.5mm on the Arrow so hopefully getting a custom adapter will save me!


Is that battery the original from when you bought the 4G? If so, that’s a pretty impressive life for it, my 4G battery has started to die much sooner than it used to, so I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s indicative of all of them.


----------



## jhog

Random request, but don't suppose anyone in the EU (or further afield) has a Headstage Arrow in good working order that they want to part with? I owned it once and slightly miss it and would be happy to rescue one from someone's drawer/shelf/cupboard. Hit me up if of interest 😊


----------



## gikigill

jhog said:


> Random request, but don't suppose anyone in the EU (or further afield) has a Headstage Arrow in good working order that they want to part with? I owned it once and slightly miss it and would be happy to rescue one from someone's drawer/shelf/cupboard. Hit me up if of interest 😊



I am deciding on whether to sell or keep my Arrow 4HE.


----------



## jhog

gikigill said:


> I am deciding on whether to sell or keep my Arrow 4HE.


Ok, thanks for the reply. Let me know once you've made your decision 😊


----------



## PsiCore

So Headstage is no longer working on any new amp - they've closed the business?


----------



## lazard

ANDEROAN said:


> yes I just replaced the battery in an older Arrow, all you need is a star tool not sure what size as I used the one Robert sent with mine, but take out the screws from the top, and slide the unit out, take of the tape, pop off the connector, and then reverse with the new battery, getting a star tool will be the hardest part, the rest is self explanatory, here's the battery I used to replace it with,
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ICP0534500-Battery-for-Apple-iPOD-U2-20GB-Color-Display-MA127-Photo-60GB-M9830Z/264098320121?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...



Sorry to dig up an old post, but I'm looking to replace the battery on my 5TX and was wondering what battery you bought.


----------



## sargaso

Lazard,
The original battery in my 5TX was a Cameron Sino model CS-IPOD4HL. It was a 1200mah battery also used in the Apple 4th gen IPOD.   I later bought a 2100mah battery from Robert and installed it in the 5TX.  The 2100mah battery didn't have markings on it so I don't know where Robert got it but the original Cameron Sino battery is still available on Ebay.


----------



## lazard

sargaso said:


> Lazard,
> The original battery in my 5TX was a Cameron Sino model CS-IPOD4HL. It was a 1200mah battery also used in the Apple 4th gen IPOD.   I later bought a 2100mah battery from Robert and installed it in the 5TX.  The 2100mah battery didn't have markings on it so I don't know where Robert got it but the original Cameron Sino battery is still available on Ebay.



Can I ask how to replace the battery.  I see that there are 2 torx screws.  Unscrew and push the body out of what I assume is the outer shell?


----------



## sargaso

That's right. Remove 2 screws and push out far enough to replace the battery. Reuse the tape around the old battery. The batteries have a connector so no soldering involved. Push back in and install the screws.  Quite easy compared to some replacements.


----------



## sargaso

Just found pictures of the replacement. The Blue battery was the new 2100mah battery from Robert. The other is the original.


----------

