# SR71B balanced INPUT?



## Girls Generation

First off, I'd like to say that using the search function here at head-fi is like finding a book that you don't know the author to in a huge public library without the computer. :|

I haven't really stumbled across many discussions about feeding the SR71B a balanced input signal during my extensive research in putting together a high-end portable LCD2 rig. So, I present you, the public, a couple questions, and I ask of you any information you might've come across that you can recall:


Does a balanced input signal improve the sound quality as drastically as the balanced output signal over SE?

What balanced DACs are out there other than the iBasso DB2 that is adequate?

Do you think it is worth spending the extra money on getting balanced input in your honest opinion? Why or why not?
 Using an iDevice with a CLAS, I will not really be able to get high resolution files to play. Will this make a difference in your answer to the above question?



Also, one last unrelated question, or really a survey:

Do you think adding more interruptions in the signal (LCD cable with RSA plug -> *RSA female to 1/8 male adapter*) will noticeably affect the sound?





Thanks everyone!




GG


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## Canadian411

First of all, you are talking about a portable system and having balanced input will help. ?
   
  Technically it should because balanced cables will reduce outside interference and hum you might pick up.  However, the real idea of going balanced cables is to help "long cables" to reduce the external noise.  Yes a long cable.
   
  Most of your rig from DAC to Amp or source to Amp is what ? 2 to 4 inch LOD cables ? you will not need an input balanced cable for that, I don't believe it will return your investment.
   
  However, you might want to invest money on upgrading your LCD2 cables to balanced cables.
  Your SR71B balanced output uses 4 channels as oppose to 2 channels for SE output, it helps LCD2 bass and trebles.
   
  Altho, I purchased ALO balanced cables for LCD2 I will not recommend you this cable because it's too stiff.  Go for the silver dragon cables.
   
  hope this helps.


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## Jalo

Well you are talking about my rig here.  Ipod/ipad/nano--CLAS--Coax SPDIF out--DB1--silver dragon balance out---SR71b--balance Crystal Piccolino to --JH13/HD800/LCD.
   
  I have compared the DB1 and the DB2 carefully, DB2 is a touch better but is bigger in size.  Without critical listening, there is no difference.  But then you can only buy the DB2 from Ibasso now, the DB1 can only be found in FS forum.  
   
  With regard to your question whether a balance DAC makes a difference? Yes, to me the balance DAC makes a big difference in several ways.  1. I felt it cleans up the sound. 2. I felt it opens up the sound stage.  3.  The balance DB2 is the only way to allow the signal to flow from your ipod fully balance to your amps (SR71b or PB2) and that is a real treat.  This is the only way you can realize the full potential of a balance amp like the SR71b or the PB2.
   
  Ray Samuel at RSA was talking about building a portable matching balance DAC after the release of the SR71b.  However, I do not know the current status of that project.  Other than that, the Ibasso DB2 is your only option. 
   
  I know many of you guys are waiting for the JH3A, but with this rig, I can use all my phones, it is very flexible as you can always remove the dac on those occasions when you want to slim down the combo.  I consider this portable combo has a SQ that can match many desktop rigs.  I have not heard the JH3a but I am very skeptic if the JH3a can beat this combo w/ full size phones like the LCD or HD800.
   
  By the way, if you are going to use the SR71b and LCD, just terminate the LCD with the RSA SR71b connector.  This way you will have better sound, and easier to manage cable.  Canadian411 is right, the ALO cable is too still.  If and when you need to use the LCD in a SE situation, you can always get an adaptor or get a second cable as the LCD cable is detachable.
   
  I will go the RMAF next month and compare my rig to the JH3a and hear it for my self.  I think the active crossover is a big plus but the pros with my rig is that I think I have a much better amp section than the JH3a (just my bias), I have the benefit of the balance signal through and through, and I can choose any high end phones to my liking.
   
  By the way, I do have a Twag RSA female to 1/8 mini adaptor which I sometimes use on my JH13 to Pico Slim and I don't think there is too much detectable difference in SQ.  Although as a purist, I always want to have as little interruption as possible.  Hopes that help.  
   
  One last thing, I just came back from a mini meet and met with the Kimber cable rep.  I am going to have them make me a silver Coax RCA to RCA (using their Illuminati D60 wire) that I use to connect the CLAS coax out to the DB1 coax in.  I think it will be very nice indeed.


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## Girls Generation

> I have not heard the JH3a but I am very skeptic if the JH3a can beat this combo w/ full size phones like the LCD or HD800.




I don't know about this one. I asked a couple people with the JH3A right now and it seems they reach for these over their fullsized cans.

I would get the DB2 but I think I will just wait for RSA's balanced DAC unless Ray Samuels himself gives me a clue that it wont be out for another year or so.

I'm still having trouble deciding to have two rigs or one, because I infact need the IEMs, and if I'm getting IEMs, why not get the best while at it and can afford it?

If I do go for the LCD2/SR71B combo, I'm still lost as to if I should use silver(Twag) or copper(Blue Dragon) for what I listen to. (I listen to mostly vocals and R&B, but occasionally dubstep, hiphop and pop.

Steve Eddy from Q audio told me to get the cable for LCD2 terminated in the Kobiconn iris (RSA) plug, so that's for sure.


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## Jalo

GG, I just got off the phone with Ray and he told me that he was hoping to put the balance dac together by Christmas.  It will have the same form factor as the SR71b.  He got derailed by the DarkStar project.  I wish you could hear my rig with JH13, it sounds very nice, it's not just for fullsize cans.  With regard to cable, one thing I learn is that I hate stiff cable now.  I just like soft and flexible cable.  I know Stefan audio cables and Twag cable are pretty soft.  I question if Silver Dragon is as soft.  I don't have experience with Q audio cable.


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## Girls Generation

Thank you for your help. I guess I'll put off the balanced input until then. 

Now as for the interconnects, silver or copper? hmmm.....

What I listen to most (most frequent to less frequent):

1. Vocal
2. R&B
3. Dubstep
4. Pop
5. Hip Hop
6. Classical


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## Jalo

If I were you, I'll send a pm to Parrot and have him make you a short 3 to 4 inches Piccolino interconnect.  That cable has the best of both silver and copper.  I know he has some extra crystal wire.  That cable is also very good with vocal, so very smooth.


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## Girls Generation

He doesn't like me very much. I'll look into piccolo more.


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## Jalo

Piccolo is a very stiff wire and I don't really think he dislike you.  He is sometimes a little blunt on the forum but that is just him. Don't take it personal.


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## Girls Generation

piccolino* iPad autocorrect -_-


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## qusp

piccolino (or any coaxial cable) is not really the best for balanced IC unless you double up. its designed to carry a single signal and its return, NOT 2 opposing phases of a signal


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## Girls Generation

qusp said:


> piccolino (or any coaxial cable) is not really the best for balanced IC unless you double up. its designed to carry a single signal and its return, NOT 2 opposing phases of a signal




You lost me...


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## qusp

haha parrots, do some reading, it does NOT work perfectly, it 'works' because it has 4 conductors, that is all. coax (unless you use it as a shielded single conductor) is not designed for balanced audio, it is designed for single ended signals, everything about it is wrong, the impedances are imbalanced, the wires are not equally exposed to any noise and thus the whole point of using balanced gear, common mode error correction/rejection cannot work properly.


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## qusp

bare in mind my comment is not the wire, but its use, use 4 strands (2 per channel, 1 per phase) and use the shields as...well a shield and its pretty much perfect again. balanced audio relies on a symmetric system thus the name
   
  for example the crystal cables ultra


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## Jalo

Quote: 





qusp said:


> piccolino (or any coaxial cable) is not really the best for balanced IC unless you double up. its designed to carry a single signal and its return, NOT 2 opposing phases of a signal


 

 Qusp, you are right about the coaxial transmission and in this case as you said my balance Crystal cable is double up.


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## Jalo

Quote: 





parrots said:


> So i guess moon audio and all the others using Coax cables for balanced setups do not know what they are doing LMAO
> If it does not work perfectly then why is it that it floors every other balanced cable out there.
> After you have tried this cable in a balanced setup that is when you have an actual opinion worth listening to.
> Let me see, there are 2 people here that actually own the cable in question and say it sounds just fine and then there is someone who has never even listened to it that says it dont lol
> You are yet another person here i have seen that goes around giving advice and thinks they know better about gear they have never even listened to or tried.


 

 Parrots, theoretically, I think Qusp's point is accurate with regard to coaxial, however, that doesn't mean it cannot be used for IC and headphone cables.  I have in front of me two crystal headphone cables (HD800 and JH13) and one interconnect and they do sound very good.  When I was at Jaben, I even tried their Crystal LOD and IC and yes my whole portable rig was wired up by Crystal and yes there is a sound difference.  Clean. natural, transparent, tight bass, smooth high are the sound characters of the Crystal cable.  
   
  I think during the construction of the Piccolino cable, they really pay attention to the core and the shield to make them balance.  Keep in mind that when Crystal made the Piccolino, even though they made it in the coax format but their intention is not for coax application but use it as headphone cable.  It is specifically developed for headphone application and not for the tradition digital coax use.  That is why it can be use as balance IC.  By the way, jsut make GG a IC and let her try it out


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## Jalo

Quote: 





parrots said:


> Jalo do you even know what he means when he says double up, 2 Piccolino cables going to each channel thus 4 wires alltogether.
> You bought your cables from Jaben and Jaben don't sell doubled up cables and I know this for a fact because before I got my batch of Piccolino I contacted Jaben regarding an 8 conductor 4 wire cable and was told they cannot do it.
> 
> Post a picture and show me what you are talking about, because from my understanding you have always had the standard cable from Jaben.


 

 Parrots, you are right with what you said.  When I say double up I was only referring to the standard Piccolino cable does have two separate strands and each is a coax on its own.  That's all I meant.  For instance, my JH13 is terminated with the RSA SR71b balance connector, so there is one strand of cable going to the left and one goes to the right but each has a coax structure.  That is why on the RSA end it can do four stream of signals.


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## Jalo

Parrots, I really wanted to see a sample of your cable.  Just so I can compare to mine to make sure they are the same.  I know from the other thread you showed pictures of the inside, but I don't know if mine has only six strands.  90 meters.  That is insane.


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## Jalo

Quote: 





parrots said:


> What Qusp means by double up is 4 different wires being used for a balanced cable rather then the 2 your cables are made with and the centre wire from each cable being used for signal so the sheilding is not soldered to any signal.


 

 In an actual coaxial format that is true as the shielding is only a shielding.  But in the case of the Piccolino, the shielding is actually used as another signal stream, otherwise, the Piccolino cannot be used as a headphone cable as it require a return signal in the case of a balance use.


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## Jalo

Parrots, can I buy that one shoe from you?  Can't cost more than $10.00 bucks, right?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That pic is so cool.  Hey I thought you made a charm as a choke on the Crystal?  I am thinking of making a diamond charm for my cable also.  Can you post that picture again?


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## Jalo

Quote: 





parrots said:


> Yes that I know but what he is saying is that got a balanced cable you cannot use the sheilding for a signal otherwise it would nit sound right and instead of using the shielding for the signal you need another 2 wires and just use the centre wires from those so intend of the 2 wires we have with the Piccolino we would need 4 and according to him our balanced cables do not sound right because they are not made with 4 wires and he says thus without ever listening to it .


 

 Yea, Qusp was thinking a straight coax cable which the Piccolino is not hence he didn't think about the shielding as another core.  Crystal is a very high end cable company and they have done a lot of research on their cables.  So I do not know the reason behind the difference in strand count between the core and the shielding but this much I know they have to measure the difference in impedance and other factors.  Ask yourself, do you hear any channel imbalance with your cable? I do not.


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## qusp

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Yea, Qusp was thinking a straight coax cable which the Piccolino is not hence he didn't think about the shielding as another core.  Crystal is a very high end cable company and they have done a lot of research on their cables.  So I do not know the reason behind the difference in strand count between the core and the shielding but this much I know they have to measure the difference in impedance and other factors.  Ask yourself, do you hear any channel imbalance with your cable? I do not.


 

 no Jalo, you are not understanding what i'm saying. yes its excellent for single ended connections, possibly the best ive tried for the portable arena, but unless you use 4 coaxial strands for a stereo signal it is not ideal for balanced. you guys really should read up on why balanced connections are used and why they work as well as they do. ive already covered that on the first page and included a photo of crystal cables own balanced cable which uses 2 coaxial strands per channel in a twisted pair just as i describe, i think they probably know how to use teir wire the best dont you think? 
   
  the shielding isnt another core, crystal cables is a standard coaxial type cable, just made with excellent materials. it has 2 conductors, so with single ended connections you can use the outside for ground and it works very well, but balanced although having 2 conductors per channel, needs them to be balanced, in gauge to do its job, just as the balanced circuit in the dac and amp needs to be symmetrical to do its job. they should be twisted so any interference strikes both equally which coax will never be. it will work very well again if you use 4 strands, or you could conceivably use the 2 thin inner conductors for one channel and the 2 outer conductors for the other vchannel, but then the 2 channels would have different impedance and neither would be shielded. it will electrically function using only 2, but it will not be using the balanced circuit as designed. please look up common mode rejection ratio for balanced audio


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## Jalo

Quote: 





parrots said:


> Lol you wish, with those laces it's now worth $1000 lol
> Yeah I used a diamond encrusted charm but unfortunately I sold that actual cable but will be making a similar one soon, I might have the picture in my photo album.
> I'm currently working on making my JH-3A cable which will be awesome, the wire is now with the overmoulder having some clear OM connectors like the JH/Whiplash cables have on them.


 

 Hehehe, If I were you, I wouldn't cut the crystal until I know how the JH3a turns out.


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## Girls Generation

jalo said:


> Hehehe, If I were you, I wouldn't cut the crystal until I know how the JH3a turns out.




+1


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## Jalo

Quote: 





qusp said:


> no Jalo, you are not understanding what i'm saying. yes its excellent for single ended connections, possibly the best ive tried for the portable arena, but unless you use 4 coaxial strands for a stereo signal it is not ideal for balanced. you guys really should read up on why balanced connections are used and why they work as well as they do. ive already covered that on the first page and included a photo of crystal cables own balanced cable which uses 2 coaxial strands per channel in a twisted pair just as i describe, i think they probably know how to use teir wire the best dont you think?


 

 Qusp, sorry for missing your point.  Are you saying using 4 coaxial strands and only using the center core for balancing application?  If that is the case you are right.  Then what do you do with the shielding on the Piccolino which is being used as a signal channel by the company?  and how can the company use only two strands of Piccolino to make a balance cable that I am using now.  I am using one right now for my JH13 in balance configuration with only two strands.  It is the same balance signal coming out of my balance dac (DB1) into the SR71b/PB2 and from my balance amp headphone out into the headphone with all four channels delivered independently from Dac to headphone.  I am not familiar with the crystal cable in your picture, may be they are different from Piccolino.  If that is the classic and true coaxial design then you are right it will need 4 strands as one cannot use the shielding as another channel for carrying signal.
   
  By the way, for your information, all my amps and dacs are in balance mode except for my Pico Slim.  I do understand the balance concepts--common mode rejection, noise reduction, channel separation, phase reversal etc.  Please feel free to correct me if I got it wrong.


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## qusp

here i'll do it for you balanced lines
   
  the first paragraph
   
   
  In telecommunications and professional audio, a *balanced line* or *balanced signal pair* is a transmission line consisting of two conductors of the same type, each of which have equal impedances along their lengths and equal impedances to ground and to other circuits. [1] The chief advantage of the balanced line format is good rejection of external noise. Common forms of balanced line are twin-lead, used for radio frequency signals and twisted pair, used for lower frequencies. *They are to be contrasted to unbalanced lines, such as coaxial cable*, which is designed to have its return conductor connected to ground, or circuits whose return conductor actually is ground. Balanced and unbalanced circuits can be interconnected using a transformer called a balun.

  Circuits driving balanced lines must themselves be balanced to maintain the benefits of balance. This may be achieved by differential signaling, transformer coupling or by merely balancing the impedance in each conductor.


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## qusp

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Qusp, sorry for missing your point.  Are you saying using 4 coaxial strands and only using the center core for balancing application?  If that is the case you are right.  Then what do you do with the shielding on the Piccolino which is being used as a signal channel by the company?  and how can the company use only two strands of Piccolino to make a balance cable that I am using now.  I am using one right now for my JH13 in balance configuration with only two strands.  It is the same balance signal coming out of my balance dac (DB1) into the SR71b/PB2 and from my balance amp headphone out into the headphone with all four channels delivered independently from Dac to headphone.  I am not familiar with the crystal cable in your picture, may be they are different from Piccolino.  If that is the classic and true coaxial design then you are right it will need 4 strands as one cannot use the shielding as another channel for carrying signal.
> 
> By the way, for your information, all my amps and dacs are in balance mode except for my Pico Slim.  I do understand the balance concepts--common mode rejection, noise reduction, channel separation, phase reversal etc.  Please feel free to correct me if I got it wrong.


 
  yes Jalo thats exactly what i'm saying, use the outer shield as a shield, just as they have in the pictur of a different type of coax they make, but still just coax, in fact i believe all of their wires are coaxial in nature. 
   
  aaaarrgghh, hehe you are still missing the point. piccolino IS coax, coax is simply a discriptor for a cable that has an axial strand in the center surrounded by an external shield (which can in some circumstances be used effectively as a conductor if connected at both ends).  sorry what company are you talking about? the only balanced cables ive seen of theirs uses a twisted pair of conductors, each one using only the center to conduct the phase and antiphase signals and the outer shield as a shield. 
   
  as i said, it will electrically work using it as you describe, but it is not how balanced audio is designed to be used, or how the wire is designed to be used. it will make a connection, but it is not a balanced connection by nature, so (at least many of) the advantages of balanced audio are lost. its a pretty rugged standard so it will work under pretty extreme conditions, but if you are aiming for the top, which i assume you are if you are buying piccolino and balanced everything, you are not going the intended route.
   
  you guys have kinda forced me out of my comfort zone here, i really do not want to comment on how other companies design their products, as far as im aware CC themselves seem to use it as intended, as i have shown in the picture.


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## qusp

Quote: 





parrots said:


> I have already cut them, if the 3A don't turn out as expected I can easily just used those pieces for a normal IEM cable.
> 
> What you are saying then Qusp is that using the cable configuration we are now we are nor getting a balanced signal so would that not mean that when using day a TWag balanced then that should sound better as that would be getting a balanced signal but that has not been the case here.
> I have like I said previously already tried with 4 wires using both the sheilding and centre conductor for one signal and it sounded exactly the same as the cables I'm using now.
> I like to listen with my ears not some random people posting on the net with no scientific facts.


 


  yep, thats what i'm saying and lol at the rest of it, i prefer to do both if i can, using your ears to judge, doesnt mean you have to totally ignore the whole reason for the invention you are using. especially if you really want/must use it, just double up and its excellent again, just as they do. i never thought i would be amused at someone saying that line about using my ears, one i have used myself, but usually its used when someone doeant have an answer. ears are the final arbitor, but thats no reason to ignore best practices along the way


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## Jalo

Quote: 





qusp said:


> here i'll do it for you balanced lines
> 
> the first paragraph
> 
> ...


 

 Qusp, I understand the above post and I agree with what it states.  Let me rephrase it using the above wording to see if it makes sense.  The Crystal Piccolino cable is "a balanced line or balanced signal pair [that] is a transmission line consisting of two conductors of the same type, each of which have equal impedances along their lengths and equal impedances to ground and to other circuits."  The Piccolino has two equal conductors that is why they can carry the +/- signal in a balance configuration without channel imbalance.  The outside conductor in the Piccolino is not designed to be used as ground even though they could.  This is different from unbalance lines or coaxial cable because their second conductor is either connected to ground or is not equal in impedance to the other conductor hence the term unbalance lines.  My understanding is that the Piccolino has two equal conductors therefore meeting the requirement of a balance line.


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## qusp

btw not arguing with your personal experience, you hear what you hear, but i'm just saying there are often good reasons we do what we do to improve the audio that we listen to.


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## qusp

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Qusp, I understand the above post and I agree with what it states.  Let me rephrase it using the above wording to see if it makes sense.  The Crystal Piccolino cable is "a balanced line or balanced signal pair [that] is a transmission line consisting of two conductors of the same type, each of which have equal impedances along their lengths and equal impedances to ground and to other circuits."  The Piccolino has two equal conductors that is why they can carry the +/- signal in a balance configuration without channel imbalance.  The outside conductor in the Piccolino is not designed to be used as ground even though they could.  This is different from unbalance lines or coaxial cable because their second conductor is either connected to ground or is not equal in impedance to the other conductor hence the term unbalance lines.  My understanding is that the Piccolino has two equal conductors therefore meeting the requirement of a balance line.


 

  
  are you sure you are talking about piccolino? have you actually ever stripped and seen the inside? they are not 2 equal conductors, the center conductor is something less than 30awg stranded electrum (silver/gold alloy) and i would hazard a guess that the outside, which is very much a shield or ground connection, is more like 22-20awg and pure silver, thats a pretty extreme difference.
   
  see i actually think you know what should be a balanced line, but are under the impression that the inside of piccolino is totally different to what it actually is. there is a single center conductor, not 2 and it is surrounded by a shield, which like any coaxial cable, if connected at both ends can be used ,for whatever you like, mostly ground, but not ideal for an equal and opposite phase because its a completely different size and balanced lines should be twisted too, thats the lesser thing here though, its the totally different impedance seen by both the sending and receiving end of the cable
   
  here it is
   

   
  anyway i'm done, i dont want to argue any further and this has gone on far too long, ive repeated myself too many times and it was off topic the first time, i dont think i would have had to though had you known what the structure was actually like


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## qusp

what haha yep, i can actually tell all of that without listening, see i actually have some understanding and practical experience of how the cables and circuits interact with each other and why certain rules should be followed if possible, having made numerous balanced dacs and amps for myself, including my diy portable dac which is wired internally with piccolino and yes i have indeed tried a single strand to save on wire before and havent liked the results.with headphone cables the problem is larger due to the length and thus larger difference in overall impedance between the condctors


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## qusp

no he doent, or if he does hes having lots of difficulty explaining it, because he states that there are 2 equal conductors, which clearly is not the case
   
  bye, i cant believe ive stayed up past when i left to actually go to bed arguing about something that is so well experienced and documented.


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## Jalo

Qusp, I think you conducted yourself well in the discussion and I don't think we are arguing as much as trying to understand the subject matter at hand.  I hope I didn't come across as argumentative, and if that is the case I apologize.  Sorry I didn't clarify myself clear enough but Parrots is right when I say the Piccolino has two equal conductors, I really meant it to be two equal conductors in function (i.e impedance and may be others).  I of course know the inside construction of the Piccolino, as I am trying to build a RSA adaptor and connect the Piccolino to a female RSA connector.  I saw that picture a few times before and if I remember correctly it was from Parrots.  I, of course, also talking out of my area of knowledge as I have no inside or direct knowledge of the research that have gone into the development and construction of the Piccolino.  But this much I do know which is the two conductors acted equally to the same earpiece/driver/channel hence they function equally to me. Materially they are clearly not the same but functionally they seem to function equally well hence they have to have the same functional property.
   
  You clearly seem have more knowledge in building balance amp/dac than me, because I have build none.  However, there is an analogy I like to share in this scenario.  There is a rich man who installed and spent over half a million dollars, state of the art, the most advance fire alarm and prevention system developed by scientists at MIT in his house and one day his neighbor runs down the street and tells him that his house is on fire, at that moment, this rich man started to argue and explain how it is not possible because of all the science and technology that went into the system.  The point is that it really doesn't matter the theory and principle of why it works or doesn't work.  The fact remains is that the house is on fire, you either believe it or you don't.  My point hopefully if I can communicate accurately to you is whether the Piccolino in theory can be used as balance cable or not is besides the point.  The fact remains that it is done and it is working beautifully.  Not only is it a fact that it is done, you can literally buy it from several vendors and they sounded beautifully.  I have the SAA voice (a $1500.00 cable) for my HD800, and my balance Piccolino actually sounded better.  I am not arguing in theory or principle whether the coaxial cable can be used for balance application or not.  All I am saying is that the Piccolino has been used for balance application.  Hopes that clarify my point.  But I do appreciate the information you posted.


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## Girls Generation

Why don't you guys just send him a loaner to have him compare, instead of all this e-arguing?


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## Jalo

Just because...its fun


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## scootermafia

Comparing inches of wire on LODs and mini-minis for portable setups is like trying to decide what model of spark plug to put in your Honda Civic.  Full size headphone cables you may be able to hear a legit difference.  And on full-size amplification.  I don't even know why I bother with my portable setup, when my home setup is so kickass.  It's futile to try to make the battery powered gear sound as good, but I sure waste a lot of cash trying.  
   
  Edit: So to answer your question, you're more likely to get the full effect of whatever sound the Piccolino might have on a headphone cable than on the ancillary items.  It's a longer signal path.  More space for stuff to happen.


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## Jalo

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Comparing inches of wire on LODs and mini-minis for portable setups is like trying to decide what model of spark plug to put in your Honda Civic.  Full size headphone cables you may be able to hear a legit difference.  And on full-size amplification.  *I don't even know why I bother with my portable setup, when my home setup is so kickass.*  It's futile to try to make the battery powered gear sound as good, but I sure waste a lot of cash trying.
> 
> Edit: So to answer your question, you're more likely to get the full effect of whatever sound the Piccolino might have on a headphone cable than on the ancillary items.  It's a longer signal path.  More space for stuff to happen.


 
  Hehehehe, it is the reverse for me.  "I don't even know why I bother with my desktop setup, when my portable setup is so kickass."  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
   
  You are right though in saying that the headphone cable will and should have more effect on the sound not only because it has more cable but it is the closest piece to your head.


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## Girls Generation

I would sure like to audition the Piccolino cable to compare with some of the other brands of LCD2 cables available.  Or better yet, have someone more experienced than me audition instead. Then, I'd know if I should jump on the Piccolino or not.


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## Jalo

What, now you don't even trust you own ears?  Be brave, put them on your head and let your heart decides.


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## qusp

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Why don't you guys just send him a loaner to have him compare, instead of all this e-arguing?


 


  why? ive already done my comparisons long ago, you do realize ive been using this wire since the user formerly known as parrots was even a member right? somewhere you picked up that i havent used it for headphone cables, i have, i just wouldnt for my current setup. scooter is right, headphone cables are where you will hear the most difference here. i dont need to prove my point, its already proven. so no more arguing, plus i'm delighted i wont need to put up with the trolling anymore..
   
  also Jalo, yeah your portable rig is pretty sweet, but i can tell you, no matter how good it is, i dont believe there is anything on the market that compares to a really high end home rig. in my case i have built for myself what is basically a high end homerig and made it transportable and i still prefer my home rig, you just cant spare the current needed for high end class A discrete circuits in a portable situation. my dac dissipates nearly 60W with a 90v point to point psu and 130ma class A bias on the mosfets for its line level output and the heatsink for the iv stage weighs nearly 2kg; then theres the amp.....


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## Jalo

Qusp, I hope you don't think I was serious for a moment.  I of course agree with you.  How can I compete with BHSE, B22, and the like.  I was merely giving scooter a hard time just for fun.  Having say that, my portable does compare quite well with many desktop system regardless.  Especially when I am on a plane going oversea, you bet I know I have the best system on the entire plane.  I even have beautiful flight attendants coming up to me wanting to hear what I am listening to    I admire you for knowing how to build you own stuff and thanks for sharing what you know.


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## Girls Generation

I've heard CLAS - iBasso DB2 - RSA SR71B - LCD2 in balanced input and output mode can compete with a good desktop rig; impressive, as this thing is completely transportable and battery powered... and cheaper? But ofcourse, something like the Leben, Apex, or Darkstar is out of range.  But I bet you, you can't carry that around with you wherever you go listening to it


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## Jalo

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I've heard CLAS - iBasso DB2 - RSA SR71B - LCD2 in balanced input and output mode can compete with a good desktop rig; impressive, as this thing is completely transportable and battery powered... *and cheaper*? But ofcourse, something like the Leben, Apex, or Darkstar is out of range.  But I bet you, you can't carry that around with you wherever you go listening to it


 

 GG, let me do the math for you and lets see how cheap this portable rig is when compare to the desktop counterpart.
   
  Lossless music--Priceless
  Ipod/Ipad2--$1,200.00-$40.00 s/h
  Ipod to CLAS cable--$140.00
  CLAS Solo--$579.00+$30.00s/h
  CLAS to DB2 (Kimber D60 Illumination all silver/platinum custom interconnect)--$350.00
  DB2--299.00 + $30.00 s/h
  DB2 to SR71B Balance cable (Moon audio Silver Dragon)--$85.00 + 15.00 s/h
  RSA SR71b--$650.00 +$30.00 s/h
 SR71b to JH13/16 Crystal Piccolino cable--$1,100.00 +$30.00 s/h
  JH13/16--$1,150.00 + $100.00 (ear impression) + $40.00 s/h
  LCD2--$995.00 + $400.00 (after market cable) + $40.00 s/h
  Balance adaptor to RSA connector--$200.00
   
  Hehehe, the total comes to $7204.00.  yea I know you can probably trim some stuff off.  It may not be as much as Warp08's desktop system or the Orpheus or the BHSE/Stax009 system, but its is no joke either.


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## Girls Generation

CLAS to DB2 (Kimber D60 Illumination all silver/platinum custom interconnect)--$350.00 can be done for 100
SR71b to JH13/16 Crystal Piccolino cable--$1,100.00 +$30.00 s/h
JH13/16--$1,150.00 + $100.00 (ear impression) + $40.00 s/h
$400.00 (after market cable) can be had for 200
Balance adaptor to RSA connector--$200.00 ?? terminated in RSA and that's that.

???

I don't know where the IEM stuff is coming from or why it's included in the rig I mentioned earlier...

Ipod/Ipad2--$1,200.00-$40.00 s/h - iPod Touch is at most $500 after taxes. iPad is unecessary unless you already have one :|




> I've heard *CLAS - iBasso DB2 - RSA SR71B - LCD2*




Lossless music--Priceless
*new* Ipod touch 64gb - $500 from the store
Ipod to CLAS cable 2.5ft (DHC)--$125.00
CLAS Solo--$579.00+$30.00s/h
CLAS to DB2 coax to coax (DHC) - $70
DB2--299.00 + $30.00 s/h
DB2 to SR71B Balance cable (DHC) --$85.00
RSA SR71b--$680 after s/h
LCD2--$995.00 + $200.00 (DHC nucleotide molecule cable) + $40.00 s/h
DHCables shipping - $30

Comes to $3665 and this is including the LCD2, the Source, and the DAC, as opposed to a high end amp, that costs upwards of $2000


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