# Official Sony DMP-Z1 Thread



## monini13 (Aug 15, 2018)

​
Hey everyone! Joseph over here and to be succinct, I've been working with @thatonenoob to provide tech/audio reviews and updates for the last year and a half. I'm an audio enthusiast myself, and about a month back, I received an invitation by the Sony Singapore Team to join a Sony Experience event alongside the Hong Kong High End Audio Visual Show.  I'll be posting more updates on this thread as the event moves along, so feel free to ask me any questions.

Those who would like to know more about Sony's other releases during this event can take a look at the following threads that I have created:
- *Sony MDR-Z7M2*
- *Sony's Three New Earphones*

I'm also on the SEAudio discord channel and will regularly be posting updates there as well.  If you'd like to hear from me, you can join our server *using this link*

We have as well recorded technical interview with the engineers that you guys can watch over here:
​

Otherwise, lets dive in to what we're able to find out so far

*Specifications
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*
Layout:*
1. Design / Philosophy
2. Engineer Technical Video Interview
3. General Impressions

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1. Design / Philosophy​
So this digital music player is more transportable than portable, cause its pretty big. Sony's emphasis on the design is for headphone users, since they already have a dac/amp, they did not make this one come with a full range of ports, arguing that if people wanted more port options they would just get Sony's TA-ZH1ES.

​To give a rough idea of how large this device is, we can look at this photo where the MDR-Z1R is leaning on the DMP-Z1. It is comparable many full size solid state desktop amps.



Sony's aim to obtain a clean, detailed, and untainted sound is achieved through the use of dual DAC's, battery power supply along with a high end analogue rotary volume controller. As seen in the specification sheets, the use of AK4497EQ DAC along with the TI TPA6120 amp chip; through this they hope to portray accurate detail and source signal received by the headsets. This music player also features a full analog amplifier with a very refined volume control that the engineers claim can maintain audio signal purity even at low volumes. They have also used li-ion batteries for a clean linear power supply, with a separate battery for the built in digital circuit. Using good quality lithium ion batteries, which can be thought of as a decent substitute for a linear power supply, the engineers aim to produce a clean headphone output that is free from distortion, as well as provide powerful amplification capable of driving a wide range of headphones.




So the battery configuration is something that was planned out by the engineers; the separate power powers for digital and analogue circuits means less noise which can translate to a blacker background. The battery cells for the analogue circuit ensures linear supply of power to the volume coil, which can deliver powerful sound that is also clean.
​
Overall, this is a premium product and Sony strives to embody the Japanese spirit where quality materials are found not only on the outside of the product but also on the inside. While getting ready to test this amplifier with the supplied MDR-Z1R, one of the event handlers was very excited to emphasise that the internal wiring is exactly the same as the kimber cables found attached to the Z1R, maintaining the notion that every section of this product is made of the final materials. The outer body is made from aluminium monocoque chassis, which brings out the sleek and smooth finishing seen on this product. Perhaps something I find a little peculiar is that everything the engineers put a lot of effort into making this product sleek, but its overall weight and build size still makes it kind of a clunky product. But for now, stay tuned for more updates on this thread!
​
​


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## monini13

Reserved


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## monini13

Reserved


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## chaiyuta

Subscribed!!


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## alphanumerix1

7500 euros....


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## imparanoic

It's probably the 40th year anniversary Walkman


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## raypin (Aug 9, 2018)

Mm..price is shocking......at first. Until you realize that a certain European brand fetched, at one point,  over EUR 5,000.00 for a certain no-frills, ultra-portable DAP.

Nevertheless, the launch price for this DMP/DAP is awe-inspiring. I’d love to audition this at some point in the near future and see (actually hear) why Sony priced this at a super-premium level. Looks gorgeous though.


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## imparanoic

Hkd 60,000 that's USD 7740, probably the most expensive dap ever


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## imparanoic

I wonder if a few not so audiophile people will moan about the 480 x 800 3.1' screen


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## NehPets

Might be premature to judge, but USB 2.0? microSD-based storage? Is this thing steam powered?


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## Wiz33 (Aug 9, 2018)

The shape looks really bulky for something that's meant to be portable.


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## SeraphicWings

NehPets said:


> Might be premature to judge, but USB 2.0? microSD-based storage? Is this thing steam powered?


From my guess, USB 2.0 is to be compatible with a wide range of devices with USB Audio.
About storage, I agree, at that mind-blowing price, one would think Sony should use SSD instead, especially when the price has gone down and SSD provides real advantages to music playback


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## nanaholic

SeraphicWings said:


> From my guess, USB 2.0 is to be compatible with a wide range of devices with USB Audio.
> About storage, I agree, at that mind-blowing price, one would think Sony should use SSD instead, especially when the price has gone down and SSD provides real advantages to music playback



There is 256GB of onboard flash storage in the device, the microsd is just for extra external usage, mostly for compatibility with DAPs on the market with the idea that you can pop your card from your player and plug it into the DMP-Z1.


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## imparanoic

Wiz33 said:


> The shape looks really bulky for something that's meant to be portable.


They have described it as  transportable than portable,


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## nanaholic

https://www.sony.com.hk/en/electronics/walkman/dmp-z1

Official product description in English.

I don't think this is even originally considered for being transportable. Note the battery power/delivery system is being emphasised as supplying clean power, rather than making it movable.  Having its own power supply seems more like a side effect rather than the intended goal, and further supported with the shape of the chassis (you REALLY don't what that knob damaged) and the price point of the device.


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## Wiz33

imparanoic said:


> They have described it as  transportable than portable,



But if it's not meant to be used while on the go. Why would you need batteries in the first place. It's also kind of redundant for a high end device like this as that's meant to be used in a low ambient noise environment. You'll lose most of the benefit if you use it noisy environment so you might just as well use a ZX300.


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## Wiz33

nanaholic said:


> https://www.sony.com.hk/en/electronics/walkman/dmp-z1
> 
> Official product description in English.
> 
> I don't think this is even originally considered for being transportable. Note the battery power/delivery system is being emphasised as supplying clean power, rather than making it movable.  Having its own power supply seems more like a side effect rather than the intended goal, and further supported with the shape of the chassis (you REALLY don't what that knob damaged) and the price point of the device.



Have they release any info on the new IEMs from the show yet?


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## nanaholic (Aug 9, 2018)

Wiz33 said:


> But if it's not meant to be used while on the go. Why would you need batteries in the first place. It's also kind of redundant for a high end device like this as that's meant to be used in a low ambient noise environment. You'll lose most of the benefit if you use it noisy environment so you might just as well use a ZX300.



They've said why - the battery is to provide clean linear power in place of traditional AC/DC coupled transformers which they say introduce EMI inside the device thus degrading sound quality, and batteries just happens to be the right solution they settled on instead of more shielding/improving the transformer etc. Again, the original goal doesn't seem to be using batteries for portability/transportation, but rather it became a side additional effect because of that choice.


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## Wiz33

nanaholic said:


> They've said why - the battery is to provide clean linear power in place of traditional AC/DC coupled transformers which they say introduce EMI inside the device thus degrading sound quality, and batteries just happens to be the right solution they settled on instead of more shielding/improving the transformer etc. Again, the original goal doesn't seem to be using batteries for portability/transportation, but rather it became a side additional effect because of that choice.



OK, That makes more sense as the battery acts more as a filter/conditioner rather than a power source.


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## HiFiGuy528

My WM-1Z Walkman is now a great deal at only $3K. lol...


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## XERO1 (Aug 9, 2018)

This has to be one of Sony’s more bizarro product releases.  It is _waaaaaay_ overpriced for what it offers. I dont see it doing well at all, at least in the US.


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## Taisser Roots

If Sony sell even a thousand of these, it's over couple million dollars of revenue.

There are loads of products audiophile companies have released at what appears to be silly prices over the years. These arent  a massmarket product. 
Esoteric sold a world clock for 24k USD.

The margins here are insane as well, 4497 and tp1620a2 chips are cheap.


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## SeraphicWings

XERO1 said:


> This has to be one of Sony’s more bizarro product releases.  It is _waaaaaay_ overpriced for what it offers. I dont see it doing well at all, at least in the US.


I don't see Sony selling these in the US
The target market of these devices are Asia, namely Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, China. That's why they hold this press release in Hong Kong
But then again, the DMP-Z1 itself will be a very, very exotic device. Sony probably estimated only about 5 or 10 shipments per month maximum 
Most of the high-end sale will be on the IER-Z1R, M7, M9 and the Z7M2


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## nanaholic

Taisser Roots said:


> If Sony sell even a thousand of these, it's over couple million dollars of revenue.
> 
> There are loads of products audiophile companies have released at what appears to be silly prices over the years. These arent  a massmarket product.
> Esoteric sold a world clock for 24k USD.
> ...



The DAC chips are never the expensive part in any summit fi audiophile system as they are usually the only mass produced parts that can be made cheap. Hell most audiophile grade capacitors easily cost more than the chips.

The attenuator in this device is said to be worth 1000 bucks here.


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## Wiz33 (Aug 9, 2018)

I might be willing to spend $1.8K on a pair of Z1R headphone but no way am I spending $7.5K on a DAC AMP, I guess it would be ok if you don't have the proper space for a traditional Hi Fi setup. If I'm going to spend that much, I would rather spend it upgrading my fully -restored KEF 105.2 to The R900 or the B&W 700 series. At least I can enjoy my collection of over 300 vinyls with those.

Last edited: A moment ago


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## Ithilstone (Aug 11, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> The attenuator in this device is said to be worth 1000 bucks here.


sooo what is it made of?? Unicorn farts harvested during blood moon only?

Price is whats people willing to buy it for and not added value of parts
but it looks overpriced - market will agree/correct very soon
Asia is a big market for overpriced gear where gear is measured/valued
by its price tag and not performance... - by mostly everyone


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## svinaik

As good as DMP looks, the price point will be the sticking point even for those who do spend big bucks for high end stuff. I would say the current 1Z (or 1A)+TH+1ZR is a much better value proposition versus the DMP alone.
Will be very interested in trying out the new IE-1ZR to compare with my Just Ear. Will not be buying though as I still have to amortize my Just Ear but down the road, when they do come down in price (like most things do), I would not mind picking up a pair , assuming they are as good or close to Just Ear. My upper limit on price though would be $ 1000


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## nanaholic (Aug 9, 2018)

Ithilstone said:


> sooo what is it made of?? Unicorn farts harvested during blood moon only?
> 
> Price is whats people willing to buy it for and not added value of parts
> but it looks overpriced - market will agree/correct very soon
> ...



Alps had been making volume pots which sells for more than 1k since the early 00s, it's really nothing new in the audiophile world.

Also to be perfectly clear and fair, a pure analog potential meter that doesn't introduce any distortion is extremely hard to make and requires very high precision in both tools and material. Even a stepped attenuator using resistors cost a lot due to complexity and component costs (refer to Burson Audio's volume pot). As a rule of thumb, high quality pure analog components are always going to be very expensive to make, that's just physics at work and had always been the case ever since electronics were introduced. Heck the reason we moved from tubes to transistors is preciously because tubes became cost prohibitive to make at very good quality.


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## Dithyrambes (Aug 9, 2018)

Stupid pricing. Nothing more to say. We all still thinking astell and kern is price gouging. Sony rode that bandwagon. 3k for a dap was already absurd but this dwarfs it. Makes a chord Dave at 8k look like a good deal.

Or get Hugo tt2 and an mscaler lol.

Or a yggy analog 2 plus totl headphone amp and a focal Utopia. Lol....all for a pair of ak4497 chips and a golden pot. I wouldnt turn down a chance to hear it, but it's bound to fail


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## Ithilstone

nanaholic said:


> Alps had been making volume pots which sells for more than 1k since the early 00s, it's really nothing new in the audiophile world.
> 
> Also to be perfectly clear and fair, a pure analog potential meter that doesn't introduce any distortion is extremely hard to make and requires very high precision in both tools and material. Even a stepped attenuation using resistors cost a lot due to complexity and component costs (refer to Burson Audio's volume pot). As a rule of thumb, high quality pure analog components are always going to be very expensive to make, that's just physics at work and had always been the case ever since electronics were introduced. Heck the reason we moved from tubes to transistors is preciously because tubes became cost prohibitive to make at very good quality.



Yeap I know Alps is making pots for ridiculous money for decades it doesn't mean they are worth it... Patek Philippe makes watches for 50k and up it doesn't mean they measure time better than 10 USD casio - but the difference is watches might be treated as jewellery where SA or any volume pot is very hard to treat as one...  So unless you treat your audio gear as a fine art... I like to use mine to listening to music


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## Whitigir

It does use thinfilm capacitors, FT highest grade capacitors, Nichicon Capacitors and Panasonic.  Also has F-Resistors everywhere, RK50 attenuator.  Not sure about the battery feeling and what about charging time or play time ? The OS seems to be Walkman OS similar to WM1Z.

What I don’t get is why using AKM chips and Op-amps vs Discrete Amplifier designs ? Discrete amplifiers can be made so compact and yet powerful with excellent low noises performances.

Anyways, I thought Sony was going with something ground breaking, like an R2R hybrid design with S-Master HX or whatever, but off the shelves and exotic parts ? It can be made by any china designers right ? There is no value in “off the shelves” parts that justify $7k price tag

The irony is that, this is Aluminum version.  Wait until you see limited OFC-Gold plated chassis DMP-Z1Z


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## Wiz33

nanaholic said:


> Alps had been making volume pots which sells for more than 1k since the early 00s, it's really nothing new in the audiophile world.
> 
> Also to be perfectly clear and fair, a pure analog potential meter that doesn't introduce any distortion is extremely hard to make and requires very high precision in both tools and material. Even a stepped attenuator using resistors cost a lot due to complexity and component costs (refer to Burson Audio's volume pot). As a rule of thumb, high quality pure analog components are always going to be very expensive to make, that's just physics at work and had always been the case ever since electronics were introduced. Heck the reason we moved from tubes to transistors is preciously because tubes became cost prohibitive to make at very good quality.



The reason you're seeing the high price is not that they're difficult to make. With computer controlled precision milling, no mechanical parts are hard to make and with today's forging tech, even semi exotic alloy are not that hard to come by. What cause the high price is production volume. Ultra high end audio is such a niche market the boutique house will be lucky to sell a new hundred units a year. If the volume change to at least a few hundreds each month. You can easily drop the price by 50%.


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## purk

The RK50 has been around since 1989....search Sony TA-ER1. 

Disappointed for sure.  No way this thing should cost more than $3k. I bet the ZH1ES + ZX300 (as a digital transport) will sound better.


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## Wiz33

Whitigir said:


> It does use thinfilm capacitors, FT highest grade capacitors, Nichicon Capacitors and Panasonic.  Also has F-Resistors everywhere, RK50 attenuator.  Not sure about the battery feeling and what about charging time or play time ? The OS seems to be Walkman OS similar to WM1Z.
> 
> What I don’t get is why using AKM chips and Op-amps vs Discrete Amplifier designs ? Discrete amplifiers can be made so compact and yet powerful with excellent low noises performances.
> 
> ...



I'm in the electronic industry and my company have been building high tech and mil spec electronics for many of the large OEM like Intel, Sun Micro, Lockheed Martin, etc for the last 40 years. I can tell you that all the discrete/passive components are fairly cheap at volume production, even high precision Li-Ion cell are not that expensive. Especially given Sony's overall purchasing volume with all the component supplier. I can do the whole thing for under $500. The Texas Instruments TPA6120 cost $1.85 in lots of 1000 and the AKM AK4497 is $40.50 each in lots of 250. I don't see the Alps analog volume costing more than $50 considering that Marantz managed to put a motorized one in their under $700 HD-DAC1.


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## Whitigir (Aug 9, 2018)

Wiz33 said:


> I'm in the electronic industry and my company have been building high tech and mil spec electronics for many of the large OEM like Intel, Sun Micro, Lockheed Martin, etc for the last 40 years. I can tell you that all the discrete/passive components are fairly cheap at volume production, even high precision Li-Ion cell are not that expensive. Especially given Sony's overall purchasing volume with all the component supplier. I can do the whole thing for under $500. The Texas Instruments TPA6120 cost $1.85 in lots of 1000 and the AKM AK4497 is $40.50 each in lots of 250. I don't see the Alps analog volume costing more than $50 considering that Marantz managed to put a motorized one in their under $700 HD-DAC1.



You are correct with many of the above.  However, RK50 is the flagship of Alps and constantly running low on stocks.  I have seen it being bought in bulk for around $550 (huge purchases).  But that is not typical.  Even, assuming, at 1K price range, the RK50 is on the DMP, it still doesn’t justify the MSRP as we both agreed on “off the shelves” components designs and price point


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## beaux

nanaholic said:


> https://www.sony.com.hk/en/electronics/walkman/dmp-z1
> 
> Official product description in English.
> 
> I don't think this is even originally considered for being transportable. Note the battery power/delivery system is being emphasised as supplying clean power, rather than making it movable.  Having its own power supply seems more like a side effect rather than the intended goal, and further supported with the shape of the chassis (you REALLY don't what that knob damaged) and the price point of the device.


It is designed as a portable device. Otherwise, why they don't add digital out/in, analog out/in features ? At the back, there is only one usb input.


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## Ithilstone

Wiz33 said:


> I don't see the Alps analog volume costing more than $50 considering that Marantz managed to put a motorized one in their under $700 HD-DAC1.



in all fairness they used ALPSMOT-03 for 40-50 USD not RK50 but - there is a big but - I don't believe that more than 0.0001% of audiophiles would detect difference ;]


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## purk

And If it is so great why not adding a pair of Mini XLRs output for DAC out?  How about a mini stereo at the very least.  I am a Sony fanboy thru and thru since 1992 and I am perplexed by this particular device.  I am certainly not the target group for sure.


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## Whitigir (Aug 9, 2018)

It does have DSD remastering engine like TA-ZH1ES.  Good news, I do love Sony own software OS on DSD remastering engine into DSD256.  I loved it on TA-ZH1ES.  Sadly, not capable of DSD512


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## bmichels (Aug 9, 2018)

I will be very interested to read the first listening impressions of this DMP-Z1 

but, for this price they could have included 512 Gb internal, and also... why such a small screen in such a big device. A 7" screen will have fitted and been nice !


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## purk

bmichels said:


> I will be very interested to read the first listening impressions of this DMP-Z1
> 
> but, for this price they could have included 512 Gb internal, and also... why such a small screen in such a big device. A 7" screen will have fitted and been nice !


They can easily included a 2tb .m2 SSD at that asking price.


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## alphanumerix1

purk said:


> They can easily included a 2tb .m2 SSD at that asking price.



Easily. I'm just annoyed why sony wouldn't use and improve new s master chips. 

If your asking ridiculous pricing at least use all in house developed items.


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## Whitigir

alphanumerix1 said:


> Easily. I'm just annoyed why sony wouldn't use and improve new s master chips.
> 
> If your asking ridiculous pricing at least use all in house developed items.



Exactly ! Not like Sony can’t do it.  But this is ironic


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## Wiz33 (Aug 9, 2018)

The problem is that for typical consumer electronics. The MSRP is usually 3 times the actual production cost, retailer usually get it at about 70% of MSRP. you would think that 40% is a great margin for the manufacturer but that 40% have to cover the R&D  and advertising cost amortized over the the sales forecast over the shelf life of the unit. Boutique manufacturer would sometimes work at 4 times production cost as the they have to recoup the dev cost over lower lifetime sales number. For a big manufacturer like Sony, even high end niche product should not have a MSRP much over 3.5 times the production cost and I can't see this unit costing Sony $2000 to make.


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## Wiz33

According to engadget Chinese edition, it won't be available for retail until Dec.


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## Whitigir (Aug 9, 2018)

Wiz33 said:


> According to engadget Chinese edition, it won't be available for retail until Dec.


That makes sense just as much as other Sony devices.  The same goes for WM-1Z.  However, who would spend this much for such device ? If I go desktop, I go all the way, and at this price, even Chord TT2 is more appealing

Then again, why using 5 battery packs instead of 5 independent Linear power supply ? Can even put in a huge battery if desired

*the 5 batteries are *decent substitute* for a linear power supply*.


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## Wiz33

Damn, this thing is the size of a small brick so definitely not for portable use. The cool thing is that you can charge while running in battery mode.


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## raypin (Aug 10, 2018)

Mm...if the DMP Z1 performs as well as a Chord Hugo TT2/High-quality player (minimum is an SP 1000), then I would understand the high price point. If not, Sony needs to reduce the asking price. The Z1 already enjoys a huge advantage: much more transportable. Also, can you name another transportable unit (standalone, off-grid) that is as good, if not better, than the DMP Z1? There’s none except for the Chord TT2. Maybe the Woo Audio WA8 plus high quality source.....

Point is transportability, off-grid and standalone listening are premium features that may justify a premium price point. At a minimum, I expect it to easily surpass the SP 1000 and the 1Z.....and perform as well as most desktop set-ups.

As for storage, what does it matter if it is 256 GB or 512 GB? The fact that it supports external memory cards MEANS you have unlimited storage. Just buy a bunch of them then rotate it.

Speculative at this point since none of us have had the opportunity to audition the Z1.


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## nanaholic

Wiz33 said:


> The reason you're seeing the high price is not that they're difficult to make. With computer controlled precision milling, no mechanical parts are hard to make and with today's forging tech, even semi exotic alloy are not that hard to come by. What cause the high price is production volume. Ultra high end audio is such a niche market the boutique house will be lucky to sell a new hundred units a year. If the volume change to at least a few hundreds each month. You can easily drop the price by 50%.



The cost of making is build into getting the equipment as well, and high precision machinery doesn't come cheap, the two are tightly related. 

I get people are upset with the price, I think it is very expensive too, and everyone has the option to simply not buy it. What I get annoyed by is how people have a very poor judgement of the cost involved in making things just by what material it is. Just take your example further and applying it to electronics, the machinery and the process to make electronic chips costs way more than most people realises, yet the material for a chip is literally dirt cheap, using only the BOI to judge the worth of a component is simply wrong, and devalues so many things in our life. Even that lowly DAC chip which only cost maybe 10 bucks now in bulk, however if you would only able to find 10 buyers of them around the world and factoring all the equipment cost etc to make them, they will no longer be 10 bucks and the cost would easily shoot up 100 folds if the manufacturer is to break even.


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## nanaholic (Aug 10, 2018)

Ithilstone said:


> Yeap I know Alps is making pots for ridiculous money for decades it doesn't mean they are worth it... Patek Philippe makes watches for 50k and up it doesn't mean they measure time better than 10 USD casio - but the difference is watches might be treated as jewellery where SA or any volume pot is very hard to treat as one...  So unless you treat your audio gear as a fine art... I like to use mine to listening to music



Some people want both and weights up the value differently, else Patek Philippe would've gone bankrupt decades ago when the digital watch was invented if everyone only want precision and the cheapest price possible, you and I just aren't those people, just a fact of life that different people want different things.


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## nanaholic

beaux said:


> It is designed as a portable device. Otherwise, why they don't add digital out/in, analog out/in features ? At the back, there is only one usb input.



They want it to be an all-in-one solution to minimise RF interference and increase SQ, which is not necessarily related to it being portable.

Heck even Chord's Rob Watts is very outspoken about the quality of the input source having an effect on his devices - just look at the Hugo 2 thread, and that has nothing to do with portability.


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## beaux

nanaholic said:


> They want it to be an all-in-one solution to minimise RF interference and increase SQ, which is not necessarily related to it being portable.
> 
> Heck even Chord's Rob Watts is very outspoken about the quality of the input source having an effect on his devices - just look at the Hugo 2 thread, and that has nothing to do with portability.



'If you are looking for a desktop system, go for zh1es'   -----by designer of dmp z1 from sony. Actually, I am just expressing what I have heard from sony. They recommend to use this device when you are in the library, office, coffee shop. You can see it has only 4.4 and 3.5mm output. I can't image a desktop amp without 6.3 xlr output.


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## beaux

nanaholic said:


> They want it to be an all-in-one solution to minimise RF interference and increase SQ, which is not necessarily related to it being portable.
> 
> Heck even Chord's Rob Watts is very outspoken about the quality of the input source having an effect on his devices - just look at the Hugo 2 thread, and that has nothing to do with portability.



I think it is better to use z1 as a portable dap. It easily blows all current portable systems away  However, I don't think it stand a chance against a desktop system costing 8000usd.


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## benchan2

Since it is the official thread, do we have the launch date or other official news here?


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## nanaholic

beaux said:


> 'If you are looking for a desktop system, go for zh1es'   -----by designer of dmp z1 from sony. Actually, I am just expressing what I have heard from sony. They recommend to use this device when you are in the library, office, coffee shop. You can see it has only 4.4 and 3.5mm output. I can't image a desktop amp without 6.3 xlr output.



that's what the PR said. I just talked with double Sato-san at the show, they both personally confirmed to me that this was not designed for portable use and my speculation was correct - the battery was completely for clean power, the side effect is of it being self powered.  other nuggets I managed to get from Sato-san
1) he admitted that the use of a traditional DAC/amp chip is they wanted power which they couldn't achieve with the current S-Master, and he had to admit defeat here
2) the knob is milled out of a single block of OFC, and treated the same way as the 1Z thus the gold finish. thou they went with a mirror finish this time
3) all the new caps and condensers are going to trickle down to the next Walkman
4) there are indeed super capacitors build into the battery/power circuit, they just didn't mention it because "it's a matter of fact they are in there"
5) and of course they toyed with the traditional transformer, it was too big and won't fit in the chassis.
6) a lot of the components are hand soldered, also they used in house developed lead free solder formula that is mixed with gold.
7) the glass top was a designer decision to show off the internal and the gold knob, but it looked ugly when paired with the aluminium chassis, so they found a new way to treat the chassis so it resulted in a mirror finish just so that would look good under the glass, while not interfere with their chassis ground design

The DMP is a show off art piece and F1 machine to test new components and techniques blended together. So yeah it is off the balls crazy expensive. it's not worth buying for 99.9% of the users, but it's worth looking forward for the technology which will trickle down to the other product lines.


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## beaux

nanaholic said:


> that's what the PR said. I just talked with double Sato-san at the show, they both personally confirmed to me that this was not designed for portable use and my speculation was correct - the battery was completely for clean power, the side effect is of it being self powered.  other nuggets I managed to get from Sato-san
> 1) he admitted that the use of a traditional DAC/amp chip is they wanted power which they couldn't achieve with the current S-Master, and he had to admit defeat here
> 2) the knob is milled out of a single block of OFC, and treated the same way as the 1Z thus the gold finish. thou they went with a mirror finish this time
> 3) all the new caps and condensers are going to trickle down to the next Walkman
> ...


Wow. Lots of precious information. Thanks! Well, if it's designed for desktop system, it is not expensive at all but can't be use with speakers and electro headphones. 1000mw output.... can't drive most flagship headphones. No analog/digital input/output... A perfect endgame dac/amp. It helps me save lots of hi-fi cables which would cost thousands


----------



## purk (Aug 10, 2018)

@nanaholic,

 I don't think people really question the AK dual DAC chip here, but rather their decision to go with the off the shelf op-amps instead of using a fully discrete amplification using exotic resistors/transistor.  An off the shelf IC such as the TPA6120 is a poor attempt here on such a top-end unit.  Sony is more than capable of designing their own headphone circuit that should easily outperform the TPA6120 integrated circuit.  I appreciate the information above and I suspect that they decided to make it transportable and keep the weight down by using battery instead of a fully regulated linear PSU unit.  I own the Z1R, ZH1ES, and WM1Z as well as the Qualia 010 and R10 but they will not get my money on the DMP-Z1.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 10, 2018)

purk said:


> @nanaholic,
> 
> I don't think people really question the AK dual DAC chip here, but rather their decision to go with the off the shelf op-amps instead of using a fully discrete amplification using exotic resistors/transistor.  An off the shelf IC such as the TPA6120 is a poor attempt here on such a top-end unit.  Sony is more than capable of designing their own headphone circuit that should easily outperform the TPA6120 integrated circuit.  I appreciate the information above and I suspect that they decided to make it transportable and keep the weight down by using battery instead of a fully regulated linear PSU unit.  I own the Z1R, ZH1ES, and WM1Z as well as the Qualia 010 and R10 but they will not get my money on the DMP-Z1.



Totally agreed, the more you look into the designs, the more it is not worth the asking price. 

They admit defeat on S-Master at high power output.  Yet, 1W into 16Ohms output is nothing close to being powerful.  By using TPA6120, don’t tell me they admit defeat here too ?  Sony used to be very innovative with the engineering that lead the market, and the ability to fabricate their own IC.  Especially when it comes to specialized things.  At this price point, we would take the product to be unique and specialized with Sony leading market innovations.  Yet, everywhere you look at, yelling off the shelves components.  Perhap, the leading innovation here is a glass like Aluminum finish similar to my cooktops, and a solid OFC gold plated volume knobs.  Again, even Chord TT2 is more innovative and unique...cheaper and more powerful

Even worse, they admit that battery is decen substitute for linear power supply.  Yet, they decided to go for it on the most expensive products ? If it was a full scale desktop, with Sony own independent LPS, Sony own exotic discrete analog circuitry, properly powerful output.  Then it would make a lot more senses


----------



## purk

I was hoping that Sony will update the PHA-3 with ESS9038 chips......perhaps that is a no go now.


----------



## Whitigir

Look at off the shelves expensive opaamp,and expensive electrolytic capacitors ! China brand is already doing it, but isn’t going to cost an arm and leg.  On top of that, they do sound good


----------



## audionewbi

Now that I look at all the reaction on the current Sony pricing, I think it is not really price that we are reacting, but more that it is Sony which has release this product. I think if Sony released this under their Qualia product, or something similar people would care less.
Sure it truly sucks it cost that much and I cant afford it but this is one of the many other things I can't afford and I hope from this Sony uses their finding on the Z1 to release cheaper product inspired by this.


----------



## Whitigir

audionewbi said:


> Now that I look at all the reaction on the current Sony pricing, I think it is not really price that we are reacting, but more that it is Sony which has release this product. I think if Sony released this under their Qualia product, or something similar people would care less.
> Sure it truly sucks it cost that much and I cant afford it but this is one of the many other things I can't afford and I hope from this Sony uses their finding on the Z1 to release cheaper product inspired by this.


Pricing ? No one would care if it was a properly designed by Sony even at 10K.  Desktop people can careless.  It is not a matter of affordability but It is just the matter of why/what/how


----------



## audionewbi

raypin said:


> Mm...if the DMP Z1 performs as well as a Chord Hugo TT2/High-quality player (minimum is an SP 1000), then I would understand the high price point. If not, Sony needs to reduce the asking price. The Z1 already enjoys a huge advantage: much more transportable. Also, can you name another transportable unit (standalone, off-grid) that is as good, if not better, than the DMP Z1? There’s none except for the Chord TT2. Maybe the Woo Audio WA8 plus high quality source.....
> 
> Point is transportability, off-grid and standalone listening are premium features that may justify a premium price point. At a minimum, I expect it to easily surpass the SP 1000 and the 1Z.....and perform as well as most desktop set-ups.
> 
> ...


Dude we havent even heard it, how can anyone know it is even remotely good, whatever good is.


----------



## audionewbi

Whitigir said:


> Pricing ? No one would care if it was a properly designed by Sony even at 10K.  Desktop people can careless.  It is not a matter of affordability but It is just the matter of why/what/how


I guess that is the price of the free market, they release market and we dictate the rest. Still it will not stop Sony from been Sony! I don't think any of Sony's naming method and product line really makes sense, they do it their way and i'm just thankful that they priced the WM1A right!


----------



## Whitigir

Here is an iconic conversation 

Why so expensive ? 

Because it sound good!


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 10, 2018)

it's 1500mW per channel, not 1000mW.

It is not portable. I asked both Sato-san and PM Sato-san's slides says so. Sato-san was very clear to emphasis portable to them is WM1Z, and the DMP-Z1 is something else.  I trust the Project Manager/Senior Engineer more so than the PR people who won't know what they are talking about.





Fun fact from the other Sato-san, the custom Alps RK501 volume knob itself weights as much as the WM1Z. The full kit (DMP-Z1 + AC adaptor) inside the included carry case is 3.7kg.

So screw what the PR people say, it's not portable.


----------



## svinaik

Sony has a way with words, "Carriable" is the new buzzword. One would certainly need some muscle power to carry this one. I guess, another way to look at it is that it is certainly "Portable" within the house. Instead of getting stuck in one fixed place, one can move this unit around in the house without worrying about the power sockets. Built in Battery is a plus over the TA-ZH1ES


----------



## raypin (Aug 10, 2018)

audionewbi said:


> Dude we havent even heard it, how can anyone know it is even remotely good, whatever good is.



Mm...those are my expectations. I hope Sony will not disappoint.

If it is as good as Sony claims it is and meets or surpasses the benchmarks I mentioned, I will get this beautiful machine. 

I need a transportable HE 1 system and the DMP Z1 is a possible candidate (crucial part of).


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 10, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> it's 1500mW per channel, not 1000mW.
> 
> It is not portable. I asked both Sato-san and PM Sato-san's slides says so. Sato-san was very clear to emphasis portable to them is WM1Z, and the DMP-Z1 is something else.  I trust the Project Manager/Senior Engineer more so than the PR people who won't know what they are talking about.
> 
> ...



The first mod if anyone buy this unit is to replace it to a much lighter volume knob LOL! 1.5W into 8 Ohms load ?


----------



## Whitigir

raypin said:


> Mm...those are my expectations. I hope Sony will not disappoint.
> 
> If it is as good as Sony claims it is and meets or surpasses the benchmarks I mentioned, I will get this beautiful machine.
> 
> I need a transportable HE 1 system and the DMP Z1 is a possible candidate (crucial part of).



Transportable HE-1? You carry HE-1 with you ? .  We will be waiting to hear from you then


----------



## raypin (Aug 10, 2018)

Mm...I wish I could carry my HE 1 outside. Hence, my quest to own a transportable and battery-operated  “HE 1-level” system. 

I used to travel with my Hugo TT a few years back. So, 1.5 kgs is nothing.

Compared to other hobbies like say, owning and collecting fine Swiss mechanical watches,  the Z1 asking is dirt-cheap.


----------



## Redcarmoose

I like The Signature Series, that said it has an individual sound all it’s own. The Sony headphones also go along with the DAPs and TA DAC/Amp. It basically all comes together well. Sony has come a long way since 2016 to reintroduce themselves. That said their success has been out of the box thinking and not following anyone. 


Some may remember when Sony regularly introduced ground breaking inventions like Walkmans which played tape, and small TVs. Much of the Signature Series held the same magic. The stuff doesn’t just have it’s own sound; it all has a special look and a special feel. If it’s overpriced or not is really only the personal value ethic of the buyer. 

But this new desktop AMP/DAC is something we #1 will have to hear. And #2 investigate the intended use of? 

So far it’s a very different bird.


----------



## purk

raypin said:


> Mm...I wish I could carry my HE 1 outside. Hence, my quest to own a transportable and battery-operated  “HE 1-level” system.
> 
> I used to travel with my Hugo TT a few years back. So, 1.5 kgs is nothing.
> 
> Compared to other hobbies like say, owning and collecting fine Swiss mechanical watches,  the Z1 asking is dirt-cheap.



We all can dream brother, but the Op-amp headphone module will fall way short of that.  I wish they just use a 48 stepped attenuator instead of an RK50 to reduce the weight of that Z1.


----------



## raypin (Aug 10, 2018)

Mm...just talked to my favorite headfi drug dealer via Messenger and he is in HK (for the AV Show) he says the Z1 : has near life-like realism, blows the Astell & Kern SP 1000 out of the proverbial water, matches very well with the Z1R, surpasses the WM1Z/TA combo, sound is well-balanced. He is very impressed.

Edit: I was able to audition the WM1Z/TA ZH1ES amp dac (Jaben Hong Kong; nice folks) last June and I was not impressed at all.


----------



## Whitigir

raypin said:


> Mm...just talked to my favorite headfi drug dealer via Messenger and he is in HK (for the AV Show) he says the Z1 : has near life-like realism, blows the Astell & Kern SP 1000 out of the proverbial water, matches very well with the Z1R, surpasses the WM1Z/TA combo, sound is well-balanced. He is very impressed.



Cool! Can it compete to $8000+ desktop setup of TT2 or Dave ? That is the question.  DAP is easily surpassed in tonality


----------



## Redcarmoose

has near life-like realism


----------



## Whitigir

Redcarmoose said:


> has near life-like realism


Most upper tier desktop system can achieve this.  But when we get into a proper upper tier desktop setup, there are more nit-picks to pick them apart.  Simply throw out Near life-like realism doesn’t do any good.  If it can’t even out perform SP1000 or even only 5% away, that would be a shame


----------



## Wiz33

I guess this is a technology demo showing what can be done that manufacturer usually just kept in house but they decided to make it commercially available. Guess it's just like the $10000 gaming laptop that Acer produced last year with a 21" curved Ultrawide screen and dual GTX1080 in SLI.


----------



## raypin (Aug 10, 2018)

Mm...skip to 1:29:



Can someone translate?


----------



## Wiz33

raypin said:


> Mm...skip to 1:29:
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone translate?




Just repeating Sony's spec PR from the conference, no listening impressions.


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 10, 2018)

Is this thing way too expensive - heck yeah x 100.
Will I ever buy it - no fing way.
Do we even know who this is for - no idea, apparently not the engineers themselves too, at least that's my impression.
However just like Suyama-san of Fitear said on Twitter - that's what makes it interesting. Exactly, where's the fun and innovation if everything you do is so by the rule books. And I'd also be lying if I say it wasn't one of the best pairing with the MDR-Z1R I've head thus far.

Just talking with Sato-san and picking his brains on this device results in so many tasty nuggets - take the volume knob. So this is the first time they're experimenting with using "exotic" analog volume pods, originally they were thinking of sticking with tried and true digital control but though "why not?" and here it is. I took this a step further and asked him does that mean the next Walkman will feature an analog volume pod? His answer was "nah, it doesn't have any effect in a portable, by the way did you know there is no dedicated digital audio volume control chip? That's wrong, I'm gonna see if we can get some fabricated so we can use them.".  This is why I love talking to Sato-san, he's crazy, but in the good way.


----------



## Whitigir

Funny, RK50 is known for it quality and performance, Sony never known this ? Lol...also, there are DACT and gold point which is cheaper but just as good performances


----------



## PCheung

You can really feel his passion while talking with sato-san.


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 10, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Funny, RK50 is known for it quality and performance, Sony never known this ? Lol...also, there are DACT and gold point which is cheaper but just as good performances



They know it by reputation, but they never used it in their own products nor has first hand experience in its effects, there's a difference.  Everyone knows a decade ago Sony wasn't making any system that costs enough to justify having a 800 dollar knob on it and they keep making their stuff cheaper, in that sort of work environment I don't think you can get away with asking for the budget to test these things.


----------



## Wiz33

Whitigir said:


> Funny, RK50 is known for it quality and performance, Sony never known this ? Lol...also, there are DACT and gold point which is cheaper but just as good performances



Knowing that something is good doesn't really tells you much about the manufacturing process or any pitfall you may encounter along the way. Sony was probably exploring the possibility on using something like this in future product and they do not want to depend on an outside source for the component so they decided to look into doing it themself.


----------



## Wiz33

nanaholic said:


> Is this thing way too expensive - heck yeah x 100.
> Will I ever buy it - no fing way.
> Do we even know who this is for - no idea, apparently not the engineers themselves too, at least that's my impression.
> However just like Suyama-san of Fitear said on Twitter - that's what makes it interesting. Exactly, where's the fun and innovation if everything you do is so by the rule books. And I'd also be lying if I say it wasn't one of the best pairing with the MDR-Z1R I've head thus far.
> ...



Yea, so as I said. It a technology demo where they throw everything including the kitchen sink at it and see what they can come up with. It's just that they decided to make it commercially available. Acer told me the same thing about the Predator 21X, it's a design exercise and a PR tech demo, knowing that they may never recoup the development cost or make any profit from it.


----------



## PCheung

I remember the name QUALIA while I listen to DMP-Z1

Good looking device, overpriced, low price–performance ratio and a testbed for Sony latest tech and development.


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 10, 2018)

Wiz33 said:


> Yea, so as I said. It a technology demo where they throw everything including the kitchen sink at it and see what they can come up with. It's just that they decided to make it commercially available. Acer told me the same thing about the Predator 21X, it's a design exercise and a PR tech demo, knowing that they may never recoup the development cost or make any profit from it.



Yeah it's really not hard to see that. Everything they use in the Z1 is new and never tested, the new FT caps, the new OS-cons, new lead-free gold solder, new treatment process for the aluminium chassis, they just went crazy with it. After the success of the Signature Series they probably won over the new management to go all out to test new components, production methods and techniques and hope to learn new things where they can then apply to more "affordable" creations (*cough* a true WM1Z successor *cough*). Case in point, they've learnt that the S-Master power output is currently limited, so they'll have to make a new one, Sato-san found out there's not dedicated digital volume control chip, and he's off to do something about it. And they are learning about how to improve their power delivery circuitry first hand, by focusing on using batteries which they can they feed the knowledge gained back into portable use etc. While it doesn't mean much to us users at the moment, these lessons are valuable for the engineers and hopefully will lead to something better for us too down the line.


----------



## raypin (Aug 10, 2018)

Mm..so that makes 2 to confirm that the Z1R and Z1 are MFEO. Great news for a Z1R owner like me. But my next ask is...can it beautifully drive the HD 820 (which comes with its own 4.4 mm balanced cable)? I have an incoming unit this August. I’d primarily pair this with top tier closed backs and CIEMs,


----------



## purk (Aug 10, 2018)

I hope Sony will demo the DMP-Z1 side by side with the TA-ZH1ES with ZX300 as transport..so a direct comparison can be made. 



nanaholic said:


> They know it by reputation, but they never used it in their own products nor has first hand experience in its effects, there's a difference.  Everyone knows a decade ago Sony wasn't making any system that costs enough to justify having a 800 dollar knob on it and they keep making their stuff cheaper, in that sort of work environment I don't think you can get away with asking for the budget to test these things.



They need to go back and study their heritage.  The RK50 was used in the TA-ER1 in 1989.

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-ER1.html

Couple of my amps have the RK50 and they are indeed is heavenly!  Search Headroom Balanced Max and you will see that Headroom featured the RK50 in their maxed out version of their amp in 2006.  Headamp.com also offer the RK50 in their BHSE too.


----------



## Wiz33 (Aug 10, 2018)

Carrying case for the unit and  a rear view


----------



## purk

Beautiful unit that's for sure.


----------



## tenedosian

nanaholic said:


> that's what the PR said. I just talked with double Sato-san at the show, they both personally confirmed to me that this was not designed for portable use and my speculation was correct - the battery was completely for clean power, the side effect is of it being self powered.  other nuggets I managed to get from Sato-san
> 1) he admitted that the use of a traditional DAC/amp chip is they wanted power which they couldn't achieve with the current S-Master, and he had to admit defeat here
> 2) the knob is milled out of a single block of OFC, and treated the same way as the 1Z thus the gold finish. thou they went with a mirror finish this time
> 3) all the new caps and condensers are going to trickle down to the next Walkman
> ...



Very informative post, thanks Nanaholic.

About the third one, did you ask any questions of the possible successors to WM1, or did they say anything & give a time for replacement and possible arrival of WM2?


----------



## bmichels

A shame that there is no real LINE-Out and not a much bigger screen.  

-> It will be a pain to browse through the potential 1.2 Tb music library through a tiny 3" screen !! ;-( . ;-(


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> A shame that there is no real LINE-Out and not a much bigger screen.
> 
> -> It will be a pain to browse through the potential 1.2 Tb music library through a tiny 3" screen !! ;-( . ;-(



Agreed on the line out, they could have easily installed a mini XLR jack or even a female TRRS or Pentaconn jack.


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 11, 2018)

purk said:


> I hope Sony will demo the DMP-Z1 side by side with the TA-ZH1ES with ZX300 as transport..so a direct comparison can be made.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They were demoing TA-ZH1ES with WM1Z/1A as source next to the DMP-Z1. They weren't shy about inviting comparisons.

Again, it's that they personally haven't used it in their own products during development. Neither Sato-san are involved in TA products, their speciality and heritage is Walkman, and the DMP-Z1 is not a TA product and is not suppose to compete with the team next door. As said the knob wasn't even intended to be used as originally they were going for a digital volume control (and they did find that an analog pod in a Walkman doesn't make sense and they need a better digital volume control chip - so they still learn something!). This also leads to the question of why choosing opamps over discrete, battery over transformers - if the exercise here is to learn what they can then apply in a portable environment with the ultimate goal of making another WM1Z size device, but with bigger power output (one of the most requested feature from users apparently), then why would you play with transformers? You'll learn nothing useful there, so you play with batteries and new capacitors. Same with discrete amps, because the end goal would be building something around a (potential) new S-Master, so you'll be using IC chips. If you frame the view in this way, then their component choices makes a lot of sense in the DMP-Z1 - they are simply sticking to their own turf and territory, and playing with things that is useful to their future projects. 

It seems that the entity of the DMP-Z1 is a giant learning experience for the Walkman team to see what they can then use to apply to a proper Walkman in order to better the WM1Z. It just happens that on the way they build some freak desktop device that seems to have overlapped with the TA amps, yet that really wasn't what they have ever intended.



tenedosian said:


> Very informative post, thanks Nanaholic.
> 
> About the third one, did you ask any questions of the possible successors to WM1, or did they say anything & give a time for replacement and possible arrival of WM2?



I did, but I can't say anything about it. 

But I think you can sort of piece together their road map from the stuff I've said so far...


----------



## purk (Aug 11, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> They were demoing TA-ZH1ES with WM1Z/1A as source next to the DMP-Z1. They weren't shy about inviting comparisons.
> 
> Again, it's that they personally haven't used it in their own products during development. Neither Sato-san are involved in TA products, their speciality and heritage is Walkman, and the DMP-Z1 is not a TA product and is not suppose to compete with the team next door. As said the knob wasn't even intended to be used as originally they were going for a digital volume control (and they did find that an analog pod in a Walkman doesn't make sense and they need a better digital volume control chip - so they still learn something!). This also leads to the question of why choosing opamps over discrete, battery over transformers - if the exercise here is to learn what they can then apply in a portable environment with the ultimate goal of making another WM1Z size device, but with bigger power output (one of the most requested feature from users apparently), then why would you play with transformers? You'll learn nothing useful there, so you play with batteries and new capacitors. Same with discrete amps, because the end goal would be building something around a (potential) new S-Master, so you'll be using IC chips. If you frame the view in this way, then their component choices makes a lot of sense in the DMP-Z1 - they are simply sticking to their own turf and territory, and playing with things that is useful to their future projects.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the explanation.  I still don't quite get why they decide to charge so much for this "learning" of a product.  You can learn quite easy by replacing the quad RK27 with RK50.  What they should have done is to get ALP to bring back the quad RK40 and use it in this amp and reduce the price by 25%


----------



## Kakki

nanaholic said:


> They know it by reputation, but they never used it in their own products nor has first hand experience in its effects, there's a difference.  Everyone knows a decade ago Sony wasn't making any system that costs enough to justify having a 800 dollar knob on it and they keep making their stuff cheaper, in that sort of work environment I don't think you can get away with asking for the budget to test these things.


Sony had been using RK50 for many of their R-series which were true innovative and groundbreaking products with full of unique technologies that Sony invented by their own.

It’s a shame of Sony not inheritating their traditions and forgetting what they had been doing...

To me, this DMP-Z1 is just a one of generic DAP with usual cheap components and has no relation with Sony’s legacy nor DNA.

I used to be a big fan of Sony but am very sad to see that this kind of generic products are coming from Sony as their flagship.


----------



## purk

Kakki said:


> Sony had been using RK50 for many of their R-series which were true innovative and groundbreaking products with full of unique technologies that Sony invented by their own.
> 
> It’s a shame of Sony not inheritating their traditions and forgetting what they had been doing...
> 
> ...



And their team leader, Mr. Koji Nageno, was one of the original engineer on the R-series.  He is the same engineer who verified the operation of each R10 before each shipment.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Aug 11, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> They were demoing TA-ZH1ES with WM1Z/1A as source next to the DMP-Z1. They weren't shy about inviting comparisons.
> 
> Again, it's that they personally haven't used it in their own products during development. Neither Sato-san are involved in TA products, their speciality and heritage is Walkman, and the DMP-Z1 is not a TA product and is not suppose to compete with the team next door. As said the knob wasn't even intended to be used as originally they were going for a digital volume control (and they did find that an analog pod in a Walkman doesn't make sense and they need a better digital volume control chip - so they still learn something!). This also leads to the question of why choosing opamps over discrete, battery over transformers - if the exercise here is to learn what they can then apply in a portable environment with the ultimate goal of making another WM1Z size device, but with bigger power output (one of the most requested feature from users apparently), then why would you play with transformers? You'll learn nothing useful there, so you play with batteries and new capacitors. Same with discrete amps, because the end goal would be building something around a (potential) new S-Master, so you'll be using IC chips. If you frame the view in this way, then their component choices makes a lot of sense in the DMP-Z1 - they are simply sticking to their own turf and territory, and playing with things that is useful to their future projects.
> 
> ...



Such a great post.

Thank-you.


I wonder if they are dreaming of a miniaturized DMP-Z1 someday.

It has a mad scientist quality to it; a Frankenstein quality.


----------



## audionewbi

I think Sony will release an app like AK connect to allow for an easier navigation as that screen is simply not large enough to navigate potentially 1 TB of music file (256 GB internal plus two 512 GB microSD).
Back on the unit, I hate the part of myself who is even thinking about placing a deposit on this unit. I have always been a guy into portable audio, I never liked the idea of setting behind my desk, it reminds me too much of work, and as a result even at home I try to stay away from my table, I know this is not a psychology forum!

I actually can see myself using a device like this, but at the current conversion rate, 13000 AUD, I can purchase a second hand chord Dave!


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 11, 2018)

Kakki said:


> Sony had been using RK50 for many of their R-series which were true innovative and groundbreaking products with full of unique technologies that Sony invented by their own.
> 
> It’s a shame of Sony not inheritating their traditions and forgetting what they had been doing...
> 
> ...



This is objectively false if you look at what else is in the DMP-Z1 outside of the DAC/AMP chip that everyone is so fixated on.

What about the completely new FT-caps and OS-cons they co-developed? The new solder formula? New chassis technique? The batteries? Remember all these things plays a critical part in all the Walkmans since the ZX1 thus far and is crucial to improvements in each generation. They admitted their S-Master is currently not up to standard and is working on it, but instead of sitting on their rear it didn't stop them from improving all the other parts in the system which could potentially have a positive effect and testing out those effects in a show-off piece of what they have learned. This whole "boo-hoo it's an AKM DAC chip and TI opamp what nonsense Sony is playing everyone a fool" is objectively unfair to the Walkman team if you look at the whole picture, instead of focusing on a couple of trees in the forest.


----------



## Whitigir

Kakki said:


> Sony had been using RK50 for many of their R-series which were true innovative and groundbreaking products with full of unique technologies that Sony invented by their own.
> 
> It’s a shame of Sony not inheritating their traditions and forgetting what they had been doing...
> 
> ...



This is another true Sony lover who is speaking .  I am glad to see so.  I honestly am tired of the way of the (because it sound good) market.  Sad to see Sony is doing the same thing but with a lot of excuses


----------



## Redcarmoose

I can absolutely go buy one and.......... I figure I’ll be buying the Z1R IEMs.......but I’m currently having a custom table made for the TA amp. 


I have no use for the DMP-Z1!

I know this doesn’t sound too audiophile but..... I guess I don’t even care if it sounds 20% better than the TA. I realize it’s a statement product and more like what a race car is to auto manufactures. Just call me blue collar? I’d probably pay $2999 on the used market just to fondle it....lol? 

Frankly I don’t care how it sounds. Though that gold bling volume knob is the cat’s meow.


----------



## svinaik

Whitigir said:


> This is another true Sony lover who is speaking .  I am glad to see so.  I honestly am tired of the way of the (because it sound good) market.  Sad to see Sony is doing the same thing but with a lot of excuses


Isn't that the point of developing products that they sound good, irrespective of the combination of parts / technologies etc. I totally agree that price on DMP is way out of whack but the exercise may not be. If anything out of this effort leeks into new products down the road for better sound, I am all for it while fully  acknowledging that DMP is not something I am remotely interested in (at current prices).
In my opinion, Sony will not sell many units of DMP and the prices will remain high but they will bring something more sensible (pricing / feature wise) which may become a great DAP / DAC / AMP combo..


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 11, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> This is objectively false if you look at what else is in the DMP-Z1 outside of the DAC/AMP chip that everyone is so fixated on.
> 
> What about the completely new FT-caps and OS-cons they co-developed? The new solder formula? New chassis technique? The batteries? Remember all these things plays a critical part in all the Walkmans since the ZX1 thus far and is crucial to improvements in each generation. They admitted their S-Master is currently not up to standard and is working on it, but instead of sitting on their rear it didn't stop them from improving all the other parts in the system which could potentially have a positive effect and testing out those effects in a show-off piece of what they have learned. This whole "boo-hoo it's an AKM DAC chip and TI opamp what nonsense Sony is playing everyone a fool" is objectively unfair to the Walkman team if you look at the whole picture, instead of focusing on a couple of trees in the forest.



They can claim to have co-developing those above.  But they already existed

Capacitors are existed.  You just need to find them.
Solders are existed (mundorf) is one of those silver-gold solder, and I know people who love it.  I, myself, love Silver solder from Oyaide. 
Chassis ? My cook top has those glass aluminum finish (perhaps, it is the Seethrough glass finish for aluminum and wood plank that are new)
Kimber wires are existed
Batteries ? Every DIY people, or every engineers, simply knows that Battery can be a good power source.  However, a properly designed Linear Power Supply with good components can’t be beat

Ofcourse, everything play a crucial role in the final performances, and the people who is approaching this level of spending money.  They are very sensible, let’s just say, before fancy components, do a properly design first.  No one care about what they use as (off the shelves DAC) just as long as they disclose Why/what lead them in doing so.

Again, the TT2 from Chord Dave is cheaper, and they are sticking to their own heritage of in house technology.  This, is worth supporting for


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 11, 2018)

svinaik said:


> Isn't that the point of developing products that they sound good, irrespective of the combination of parts / technologies etc. I totally agree that price on DMP is way out of whack but the exercise may not be. If anything out of this effort leeks into new products down the road for better sound, I am all for it while fully  acknowledging that DMP is not something I am remotely interested in (at current prices).
> In my opinion, Sony will not sell many units of DMP and the prices will remain high but they will bring something more sensible (pricing / feature wise) which may become a great DAP / DAC / AMP combo..



That is just an excuse.  Sony had been, and is known to be a market leading company with innovations and the power to do things that others can not.  They are being out done by a smaller company, Chord !

You probably don’t know (because it sound good market).  Google Hi-fi man


----------



## svinaik

Redcarmoose said:


> I can absolutely go buy one and.......... I figure I’ll be buying the Z1R IEMs.......but I’m currently having a custom table made for the TA amp.
> 
> 
> I have no use for the DMP-Z1!
> ...



Exactly in same position as you. DMP is not my gig and love my TA as it is now. If a new version


----------



## Kakki

nanaholic said:


> This is objectively false if you look at what else is in the DMP-Z1 outside of the DAC/AMP chip that everyone is so fixated on.
> 
> What about the completely new FT-caps and OS-cons they co-developed? The new solder formula? New chassis technique? The batteries? Remember all these things plays a critical part in all the Walkmans since the ZX1 thus far and is crucial to improvements in each generation. They admitted their S-Master is currently not up to standard and is working on it, but instead of sitting on their rear it didn't stop them from improving all the other parts in the system which could potentially have a positive effect and testing out those effects in a show-off piece of what they have learned. This whole "boo-hoo it's an AKM DAC chip and TI opamp what nonsense Sony is playing everyone a fool" is objectively unfair to the Walkman team if you look at the whole picture, instead of focusing on a couple of trees in the forest.



I understand your point.

But I can never imagine a Rolls Royce flagship car using Toyota's engine.
I also can't imagine a Ferrari flagship car using Toyota's engine.

Nor I can imagine a Patek Philippe flagship watch using Casio mechanism!

It's a shame that a company like SONY who originated Redbook is using other companies' DAC chip for their flagship.
Putting so much effort in other parts do not justify using a generic engine for their flagship.

They should have perfected S-Master first.


----------



## bmichels

audionewbi said:


> I think Sony will release an app like AK connect to allow for an easier navigation as that screen is simply not large enough to navigate potentially 1 TB of music file (256 GB internal plus two 512 GB microSD).
> Back on the unit, I hate the part of myself who is even thinking about placing a deposit on this unit. I have always been a guy into portable audio, I never liked the idea of setting behind my desk, it reminds me too much of work, and as a result even at home I try to stay away from my table, I know this is not a psychology forum!
> 
> I actually can see myself using a device like this, but at the current conversion rate, 13000 AUD, I can purchase a second hand chord Dave!



using an iPAD or iPhone app to select the music will be a nice turn-around the "very small" screen.  But it will have to use BlueTooth since  the Z1 do not have WiFi ( and therefore NO Tidal/qobuz streaming ((


----------



## Kakki

I also think that DMP-Z1's design is something very stupid... or something designed by a person who knows nothing about HiFi.
Why are they showing the gold-plated volume?

Is that the most important or critical component in DAC / DAP?

Ferrari car is showing their beautiful engine through a glass cover... because engine is the most important component for a car ... and also something differentiate Ferrari from other generic car companies.
I feel it's very reasonable that Ferrari is proudly showing their engine.

But why a gold-plated volume for DMP-Z1? Because it's the most expensive component? or maybe a gold-plated volume looks good?

I have to say that the designer who designed DMP-Z1 has a very childish design philosophy ... or has no idea how DAC / DAP works.


----------



## audionewbi

It has to do with shielding, it is not a car!


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## Redcarmoose (Aug 11, 2018)

Kakki said:


> I also think that DMP-Z1's design is something very stupid... or something designed by a person who knows nothing about HiFi.
> Why are they showing the gold-plated volume?
> 
> Is that the most important or critical component in DAC / DAP?
> ...



I’m pretty sure the analog volume knob is a crucial part. You’ll notice Woo Audio has it always as an option to upgrade. Pretty sure it has a dynamic effect on an analog output. The window IS a little toy like. But again Japan has it’s own style. Seeing the windows in Tokyo across the side of buildings which are simply walkway platforms is part of their aesthetic. Tokyo is probably the most beautiful city I have ever seen!

The Japanese like windows into things. At least there are no diamonds sparkling inside that window. At least it does not have a giant 24 karat dollar sign mounted on top. Lol.

 We have moved from the stripped down functionality of cold aluminum to rap star jewelry in audio fashion!

But maybe all this has a function and I should eat my words?


----------



## Kakki

Chord DAC's are proudly showing the FPGA with WTA algorithm inside and Pulse Array DAC through a glass rid.
The FPGA and the Pulse Array DAC are the core components of their DAC so I feel the external design is consistent with their product design.

But a gold-plated volume for a DAC!? Give me a break!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Kakki said:


> Chord DAC's are proudly showing the FPGA with WTA algorithm inside and Pulse Array DAC through a glass rid.
> The FPGA and the Pulse Array DAC are the core components of their DAC so I feel the external design is consistent with their product design.
> 
> But a gold-plated volume for a DAC!? Give me a break!



Well I’m pretty sure that this look has no concern for the Westen Market. If you were to see the introduction to the release it was shown who their marketing strategy is aimed at. It’s not remotely Head-Fi. If anything we are way down on the list. So trying to judge the equipment look from a Western standpoint is fruitless.


----------



## Kakki

Redcarmoose said:


> Well I’m pretty sure that this look has no concern for the Westen Market. If you were to see the introduction to the release it was shown who their marketing strategy is aimed at. It’s not remotely Head-Fi. If anything we are way down on the list. So trying to judge the equipment look from a Western standpoint is fruitless.


I’m a Japanese living in Japan and used to a big fan of SONY but now having difficulty understanding their design philosophy...


----------



## NehPets

audionewbi said:


> It has to do with shielding, it is not a car!


I doubt it has anything to do with shielding; I suspect it has everything to do with "bling".


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## raypin (Aug 11, 2018)

bmichels said:


> using an iPAD or iPhone app to select the music will be a nice turn-around the "very small" screen.  But it will have to use BlueTooth since  the Z1 do not have WiFi ( and therefore NO Tidal/qobuz streaming ((



Mm..yup an app to remote DMP Z1 would have been a nice feature. Shame.....although with bluetooth streaming and USB, Tidal is still streamable/playable on the DMP Z1. Native playback is still preferable.
——————————


----------



## purk (Aug 11, 2018)

Kakki said:


> I’m a Japanese living in Japan and used to a big fan of SONY but now having difficulty understanding their design philosophy...



Oh man, that's how I feel exactly.  I have been a Sony fanboy since 1992 and have just about all of their digital audio players starting with the X1060 all the way to the first three signature products as well as the original S-Master Pro amp (now broken) STR-DA9000ES.  Hell I still even hold on to my cassette Walkman, Discmen and Minidisc and a freaking "Pocket Vaio".  Like you and @Whitigir , I also feel that Sony has lost their way in term of the design philosophy.  I get it that they want to bling out their product by using the RK50, but it such an opportunity loss for them to use off the shelf DAC and  even worst....a run-off-the mill OPA headphone circuit.  We are not even talking about an op-amp based headphones module with a discrete buffer here people.  I think the only thing I found interesting about the DMP-Z1 is the independence batteries to power both analog and digital boards.  Perhaps they want to be like Linnn products....nothing but integrated circuits and charge way premium for it.  I'm a passionated Sony fanboy and they are heading in the wrong direction here with the Z1.


----------



## raypin (Aug 11, 2018)

Mm...silly to condemn the Z1 without hearing it first. Give it a proper audition with the best headphones you guys have (or what is available) and then pass judgment. First rule of this hobby.

Who cares what goes into it? The only thing that matters is what it can do to your headfi listening experience and enjoyment. Can it deliver?


----------



## purk (Aug 11, 2018)

raypin said:


> Mm...silly, silly, silly to condemn the Z1 without hearing it first. Give it a proper audition with the best headphones you guys have and then pass judgment. First rule of this hobby.



Normally this is true, but not on the OPA circuit man.  Op-amp design done right always have a discrete buffer so they clearly shortchanging the Z1 design.  I have no doubt that it will sound great, but they could have made it to sound even better here.  See the legendary Headroom Balanced Max for instance for an op-amp based headphone design done right.  I really hope you get the chance to hear Doug Savitsky headphone amps and I think you will be super impressed.  That guy always at the leading edge on dynamic headphones amplifier.  His every single product sounds better than the TA-ZH1ES that I have.  Search around for ECP DSHA-4 or Ravenswood to see what I'm talking about.  Even Kevin Gilmore SuSy Dynalo mini easily edge out the ZH1ES that I have.


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 11, 2018)

purk said:


> Normally this is true, but not on the OPA circuit man.  Op-amp design done right always have a discrete buffer so they clearly shortchanging the Z1 design.



How do you know they don't have a discrete buffer?

It's pretty amazing that people are making claims on the entire circuit design base on a single op amp chip spec they released and never actually seen the thing opened up.

I mean Whitgir jumped the gun about the battery/no super conductor thing (which I managed to confirm with Sato-san - it's there, they used super conductors).


----------



## raypin

Mm...yes, I wish I had access to those machines as well so I can audition, compare and decide but my choice is limited to what is commercially available from the known brands (Chord, Sony, Mass Kobo etc.). I plan to audition the Z1 at the earliest opportunity, probably from one of the HK dealers. Till then, I have to rely on posted reviews. 

Carry on....


----------



## purk (Aug 11, 2018)

You don't have to like what I have to say but a discrete buffer is a great selling point man.
If they have it, Why not showing it off?  I have plenty of experience playing with gears at all ranges and I am calling out Sony when they are shortchaing themselves big time when I see it.  Armchair or not I have most of their highend products since the early 1990s and I know that they can do a whole lot better when I see it.  The Z1R can't even measure up to the Qualia 010 and the R10 and I have all three.

Also @Whitigir knows his stuff.  He successfully built a DIY T2, KGSSHV Carbon, and Groundgrid amplifiers that are whole lot more complexed than the circuitry of the Z1.  Can u imagine an amplifier with $8000 just for parts count, that's the DIY T2.  Oh, and ECP DSHA-2 easily outperformed my TA-ZH1ES.


----------



## PCheung (Aug 11, 2018)

I start to think, are we listening to the chip or the music.
this "Sony is guilty for using off the shelf parts" argument is so annoying

and saying AKM chips = cheap parts / toyota engine? I don't think so.


----------



## purk

Using an AKM DAC chips are fine, the Op-amp module is just ridiculous at this price range.  The Z1 will sound a lot better using a discrete module.


----------



## Wiz33 (Aug 11, 2018)

Basically, This is Sony's entry into the Exotic Supercar / Formula one market. Not meant for the general public, If you have to debate about the price, then it's not for you.  But the technology will eventually filter down to their consumer product. Back in my younger days, I would probably buy one just for the fun of it. Back then, I didn't even blink buying the 1st ever projection TV which cost 1/10 of an average house in the area. But given that I'm now older and more mature (not) and that I probably can't hear pass 14K. at my age. I'll pass (maybe)


----------



## raypin

Mm....off the shelf, all-in-one seems to be despised terms around here. Same in the HE 1 Orpheus thread when Sennheiser launched it. How can Sennheiser use an off-the-shelf ESS Sabre chip yada yada yada on a 55k machine? Luckily, I did not listen to the armchair engineers and pseudo-experts then. I listened with my ears and I couldn’t be any happier.


----------



## purk

raypin said:


> Mm....off the shelf, all-in-one seems to be despised terms around here. Same in the HE 1 Orpheus thread when Sennheiser launched it. How can Sennheiser use an off-the-shelf ESS Sabre chip yada yada yada on a 55k machine? Luckily, I did not listen to the armchair engineers and pseudo-experts then. I listened with my ears and I couldn’t be any happier.



We are not talking about a DAC chip here.  Many are disappointed because of the integrated op-amp module.  The reason your HE-1 is special is because Sennheiser didn't shortchanging their design and the amplification stage of your HE-1 is unique and special.  And I bet Sennheiser took the time to design a great output stage from the ESS9018 chipset and space is not an issue.  This is not the case for Z1 because of its amplification stage and transportable form factor.


----------



## raypin (Aug 11, 2018)

Mm...academic discussions are fine...up to a certain point. But, please, don’t dish on a product that you have not even tried. Armchairing is just annoying. I am outta’ here.

Someone please open a listening impression thread of the DMP Z1.


----------



## Kakki

This is a super expensive flagship product of SONY so that the point is not the sound quality.

Patek Philippe flagship should be using Rolex mechanism if that is more precise?

Ferrari flagship should be using BMW engine if that is more powerful?

What is the point of making a flagship product using other company’s technology for the core components? Showing that SONY can create something sounds great?

Show SONY’s soul if that is SONY’s flagship product!

Using the best components in the market to make the best sounding product is something all the companies can do and not the flagship product job.


----------



## Whitigir

Kakki said:


> This is a super expensive flagship product of SONY so that the point is not the sound quality.
> 
> Patek Philippe flagship should be using Rolex mechanism if that is more precise?
> 
> ...



Voila! Totally agreed with this


----------



## bmichels

for me, NO Qobuz/TIDAL streaming is the most annowing part.  

But, besides this,* I hope to be able to audition it against my A&K SP1000, and if it sound better, then I will not care if the Z1 use "off the shelf parts" or not*.  

I just wished for a bigger screen or... a remote screen (my iPAD or iPhone, like the Chord poly concept)


----------



## Whitigir

Ok, I was able to have some confirmed informations:

1/ DSP professor is Sony in-house design, which were used in both Platform Wm1A/Z and TA-ZH1ES.  This processor is able to do DSD Remastering, but is not suitable for S-Master, so Walkman will not have this feature.  TA-ZH1ES is using FPGA to accommodate 

2/ AKM4497EQ will use it own bypass for DSD Native playback, and Z1 can playback upto DSD512.  However, DSD-Remastering is limited at DSD256.  There are and no plans for optional user selectable filters for alternative sound signatures.  

3/ There are super capacitors inside Z1, and Condenser, many components that were the greatest in Walkman WM1A/Z but with newer improvements and specifications 

4/ Headphones Amps are using TPA6102A2 because the engineers deemed it to sound the best and also had shown great performances in other Sony equipments


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## purk (Aug 11, 2018)

bmichels said:


> for me, NO Qobuz/TIDAL streaming is the most annowing part.
> 
> But, besides this,* I hope to be able to audition it against my A&K SP1000, and if it sound better, then I will not care if the Z1 use "off the shelf parts" or not*.
> 
> I just wished for a bigger screen or... a remote screen (my iPAD or iPhone, like the Chord poly concept)



Why wouldn't it sound better than your AK?  It's more than 5 times the size of your SP1000.

@Whitigir, I think that same amplification module is used in the PHA-3 along with the PHA-2A if I am not mistaken.


----------



## xjaynine (Aug 11, 2018)

I believe everyone's made some interesting and valid points about what this thing is.

I'll admit that my interest for the Z1 was deflated after initially learning about the price, it's capabilities and some of the component choices. It is less intriguing because of those reasons. As much as I'd prefer the entire unit to be 'pure Sony', I'll nonetheless contest that it's still very much in the experimental DNA that is found in the most exciting Sony products.

But I think I am starting to make sense of this expensive block after @nanaholic has offered further insight. Off the shelf components, odd design choices etc. It'll be fun to validate in the future if the DMP-Z1 is a test bed for Sony DAPs to come.

After all the very well received PHA-3 was made possible by a third party DAC and OPAMP module. Going for these components at the time made it possible to decode higher bit-rate formats as well as providing higher output power. The S-Master solution found in the NW-ZX2 at the time was incapable of delivering those features. These features eventually found their way into the NW-WM1A/Z, which @purk has described the PHA-3 to be a good match up.

Heck Sony's current top of the line speakers (*SS-AR* and the *SS-NA* series) use Danish Span Peak drivers, and was predominantly an exercise in find suitable materials for developing a standout speaker cabinet.



Kakki said:


> Show SONY’s soul if that is SONY’s flagship product!



Sony's soul doesn't necessarily have to be expressed by only proprietary technologies. One of the reasons why I'm enjoying the current crop of Sony hardware is the more open approach. I still find it crazy that I can drag and drop music files onto a Walkman without going through Sonic stage or converting it ATRAC. I love that LDAC can be enjoying on non Sony devices (The Shanling M0).

While I do agree that there are some key differences in design philosophies that gave rise to some of the legendary gear in the past like the R-Series components. The new guard is also accomplishing a lot whilst respecting that soul.


----------



## Kakki

"Open minded approach" sounds good... but I think those flagship products have to have some "pride" at the same time.

With an extreme open minded approach, we can do anything. 
e.g. Ferrari flagship car can use BMW engine. Hurley flagship bike can use Honda engine...

Where is the pride? What's the reason that thing have to be their FLAGSHIP product?

What's worse is that SONY is now admitting that their S-Master in TA-ZH1ES and WMZ1 can be easily beaten by some general chip DAC and chip amp. 

"Sorry guys, we found that AK4497+TPA6120 sounds a lot better than S-Master in your TA-ZH1ES and WMZ1"

This is the worst message a flagship product can deliver to the loyal customers.

I think what SONY have done with "open minded approach" in DMP-Z1 is simply damaging to SONY's corporate brand and making a lot of SONY fans disappointed.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 11, 2018)

I don’t believe that Sony can’t make S-Master to out perform AKM.  It does have it limitations, but it isn’t hard for them to have perfected it, if they wanted to, and invest into it.  Sony is fully capable of leading the market


----------



## Kakki (Aug 11, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> I don’t believe that Sony can’t make S-Master to out perform AKM.  It does have it limitations, but it isn’t hard for them to have perfected it, if they wanted to, and invest into it.  Sony is fully capable of leading the market



Totally agreed. I once had TA-DR1 with S-Master Pro (you can see it on my profile icon photo) which had 200w output and drove my monitor speakers easily.
As Whitigir mentioned, it is just a matter of investment / time. Nothing can be achievable for a company like SONY if they decide to make an investment on time and money.

Maybe a big brick with a discrete S-Master Pro and an insanely huge battery would be more welcomed than a big brick with a general chip DAC / amp with an insanely heavy copper nob.


----------



## xjaynine

@Whitigir, agreed wholeheartedly. The AKM chip is a clear target for the engineers to surpass. Hopefully it won't be too long before the next S-Master evolution.



Kakki said:


> This is the worst message a flagship product can deliver to the loyal customers.
> 
> I think what SONY have done with "open minded approach" in DMP-Z1 is simply damaging to SONY's corporate brand and making a lot of SONY fans disappointed.



Eh, I don't know... seems like a limiting ideology. Corporate branding and identity is only valuable if the products are serving the customer. The Z1 doesn't meet the needs of some loyal customers who want to see a all in house Sony device but if does sound competitive against other DAPs in this price range. I'm sure some customers will appreciate it and enhance the brand either way. It's not a zero-sum game. 

To take your car analogy. The BRZ isn't a lesser car because it was a joint Subaru and Toyota project. Neither will the next BMW Z4 and Toyota Supra simply because they share key components.

Now if this thing sounds worse than the TA-ZH1ES then this exercise will screw up the brand reputation.


----------



## purk

Kakki said:


> Totally agreed. I once had TA-DR1 with S-Master Pro (you can see it on my profile icon photo) which had 200w output and drove my monitor speakers easily.
> As Whitigir mentioned, it is just a matter of investment / time. Nothing can be achievable for a company like SONY if they decide to make an investment on time and money.
> 
> Maybe a big brick with a discrete S-Master Pro and an insanely huge battery would be more welcomed than a big brick with a general chip DAC / amp with an insanely heavy copper nob.



Now I understand why you are as passionate as me and equally disappointed. Sony have done it in the past with the TA -DR1 and decided to go with an easier and more compromised route now with the Texas instrument headphone amp chip set.



There is nothing wrong utilizing the TPA6120 chip in the PHA-2A and 3 due to its being a portable product given the space limitation but it is quite a questionable decision to use the same chip in a flagship product.  As much as I enjoy the 1Z and PHA-3, they fall quite short when compared to a mid-end amplifier such as the Headamp Gilmore Lite MKii for example.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I thought it was about the sound not how you got there that mattered? Does it really matter if it sounds amazing isn't that what people pay for? I get where people are coming from, and I do think the price is insane, but I don't personally feel that companies need to always develop their own technologies in house. I suspect there is still a fair amount of engineering required by Sony. On a related, but separate front it would be interesting to know how the price is justified by Sony if it didn't require significant product engineering beyond the expensive and pretty casing. I just can't imagine beyond aesthetics that a case has much if any impact on the sound quality (assuming basic effective shielding for actual electrical noise). Hopefully Sony will explain how off the shelf-products being used can justify such a retail price. I think we all can agree that in this golden age of personal audio the margins being made on such boutique products are likely pretty decent.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 11, 2018)

Sonic Defender said:


> I thought it was about the sound not how you got there that mattered? Does it really matter if it sounds amazing isn't that what people pay for? I get where people are coming from, and I do think the price is insane, but I don't personally feel that companies need to always develop their own technologies in house. I suspect there is still a fair amount of engineering required by Sony. On a related, but separate front it would be interesting to know how the price is justified by Sony if it didn't require significant product engineering beyond the expensive and pretty casing. I just can't imagine beyond aesthetics that a case has much if any impact on the sound quality (assuming basic effective shielding for actual electrical noise). *Hopefully Sony will explain how off the shelf-products being used can justify such a retail price*. I think we all can agree that in this golden age of personal audio the margins being made on such boutique products are likely pretty decent.



Sony already explained it.  Because all components are of highest quality and very expensive.  Also the choices of AKM and TPA combinations is because it does sound better than their current S-Master HX capability in their experiences.  Alp Rk50 is very expensive for example

Because such combinations results in a wonderful sound performances, they are not sticking by the book of Linear power supply or discrete Amp.  _Their goal in creating Z1 is to simply achieving the best sound performances the most picky human can hear, regardless of designs language, and an all in one device

In a sense, why so expensive ? Because it sound good ! _


----------



## Sonic Defender

Whitigir said:


> Sony already explained it.  Because all components are of highest quality and very expensive.  Also the choices of AKM and TPA combinations is because it does sound better than their current S-Master HX capability in their experiences.  Alp Rk50 is very expensive for example


Not that expensive, I would bet the total bill of parts is far less than you think. I'm sure the case is a big part of the cost.


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## Whitigir (Aug 11, 2018)

Sonic Defender said:


> Not that expensive, I would bet the total bill of parts is far less than you think. I'm sure the case is a big part of the cost.


RK50 is $1000 by itself, and you think it is cheap ? Okay! Ofcourse I agree about the Bill of materials pricing is far less than the MSRP.  But you wanted an explaination, you got it


----------



## Sonic Defender

Whitigir said:


> RK50 is $1000 by itself, and you think it is cheap ? Okay!


Well, that I will admit I didn't know, but are you sure that is what Sony pays for them?


----------



## Whitigir

Sonic Defender said:


> Well, that I will admit I didn't know, but are you sure that is what Sony pays for them?


No, and ofcourse less than what a DIY could buy.  However, RK50 attenuators remaining the king of performances and the king of cost, regardless


----------



## Sonic Defender

Whitigir said:


> No, and ofcourse less than what a DIY could buy.  However, RK50 attenuators remaining the king of performances and the king of cost, regardless


I'm sure they are spendy for sure, as are the other components Sony is using, but they do this for profit and I still remain convinced that the margins are pretty decent. Personal audio is really lucrative right now. I'm not against profit believe me, no profit, no money to innovate via R&D so I have no issue with profit being made, but lets not kid ourselves that there isn't good money to be made at such a retail price.


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## purk (Aug 11, 2018)

The RK50 is the best there is in term of continuous volume attenuation.  Still, a quad DACT 24 steps is just as good for quarter of the cost.  I also think Goldpoint also make some quad 48 steps attenuator.  

I agreed that the BOM is probably less than $1800.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 11, 2018)

purk said:


> The RK50 is the best there is in term of continuous volume attenuation.  Still, a DACT 24 steps is just as good for quarter of the cost.  I also think Goldpoint also make some quad 48 steps attenuator.


Yeah,  but then they won’t be able to claim that the resulted MSRP is due to the very expensive components either 

Sony is explaining and is very open about interviews.  But in the end, I am seeing “because it sound good, and we use expensive parts” .  They improved upon the iconic quote “because it sound good” analogy

There is Sony own DSP in the DMP-Z1 though, don’t you dare look down on the device.  It is not all Off the shelves.  The sound isn’t what it is without this part  (just my opinion)

By the way, you think Sony as a leader ? DMP-Z1 is the first of it kind: Carriable Players (neither stationable, transportable nor Portable) that is between a desktop and a DAP ! It is uniquely first of it kind


----------



## DONTGIVEUP

It’s a Sony, probably will last a generations time. Totally worth it. On my list.


----------



## trellus

Very strange and bulky looking for a DAP, but pretty!


----------



## audionewbi

Guys lets not forget Sony has given us the WM1A, which is a great value, it will soon have all the new features that will make it an ideal pairing for Tidal users, USB users and BT streamers. Let them have this one insane product. 

The stupid thing is, as I'm typing this I'm trying to figure out how I can afford the DMP-Z1, I think I'm sold! I love Sony too much, this is my issue.


----------



## purk

By the way, you think Sony as a leader ? DMP-Z1 is the first of it kind: Carriable Players (neither stationable, transportable nor Portable) that is between a desktop and a DAP ! It is uniquely first of it kind[/QUOTE]


audionewbi said:


> Guys lets not forget Sony has given us the WM1A, which is a great value, it will soon have all the new features that will make it an ideal pairing for Tidal users, USB users and BT streamers. Let them have this one insane product.
> 
> The stupid thing is, as I'm typing this I'm trying to figure out how I can afford the DMP-Z1, I think I'm sold! I love Sony too much, this is my issue.


Agreed on the WM1Z/A, but even more on the ZX300.  I was disappointed because the Z1 can scale even higher height if they do their own analog headphones design.  As much as I love Sony, the Z1 is just not for me.  Maybe at half off...I will buy one.


----------



## audionewbi

purk said:


> By the way, you think Sony as a leader ? DMP-Z1 is the first of it kind: Carriable Players (neither stationable, transportable nor Portable) that is between a desktop and a DAP ! It is uniquely first of it kind[


I do, they are the Nikola Tesla of audio, always doing things their way.
If I can find a way to pay it off, I'm sold.


----------



## bmichels

audionewbi said:


> Guys lets not forget Sony has given us the WM1A, which is a great value, it will soon have all the new features that will make it an ideal pairing for Tidal users, USB users and BT streamers. Let them have this one insane product.
> 
> The stupid thing is, as I'm typing this I'm trying to figure out how I can afford the DMP-Z1, I think I'm sold! I love Sony too much, this is my issue.



Why Bluetooth ? For streaming ? Is it possible to stream Tidal via Bluetooth ? ?


----------



## audionewbi

bmichels said:


> Why Bluetooth ? For streaming ? Is it possible to stream Tidal via Bluetooth ? ?


Yes via airplay.


----------



## svinaik

Folks, for a minute, changing the discussion to a slightly different angle. If DMP was announced at say $ 4-5K, would the reaction be the same. I would drop the "Flagship" term as all the products in their signature series are in some ways flagship products. Hearing the term Flagship get people to react much more forcefully than otherwise.

So the discussion ought be at what price this is a damn good offering, Perhaps Sony will monitor this discussion and providing some constructive feedback will be far more valuable than repeatedly criticizing the offering as not worthy of "Flagship".

There are already good nuggets of suggestions that this forum has provided (like alternates for $ 1K volume attenuator).


----------



## Gibraltar

purk said:


> I hope Sony will demo the DMP-Z1 side by side with the TA-ZH1ES with ZX300 as transport..so a direct comparison can be made.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Getting a bit off topic, but the TA-ER1 did not use an ALPS. Based on the markings it's from Matsushita, but possibly sub-contracted to Tokyo KO-ON Denpa.


----------



## Sonic Defender

svinaik said:


> ...
> There are already good nuggets of suggestions that this forum has provided (like alternates for $ 1K volume attenuator).


Sony did not pay anywhere remotely close to $1000 for a volume pot, I would be shocked if they paid even $300. I found a DIY forum where in 2015 an RK50 was sold for $498US, and that is to a hobbyist. Sony is not paying anywhere, not even remotely close to 1K for a volume pot, not a chance.


----------



## Whitigir

Sonic Defender said:


> Sony did not pay anywhere remotely close to $1000 for a volume pot, I would be shocked if they paid even $300. I found a DIY forum where in 2015 an RK50 was sold for $498US, and that is to a hobbyist. Sony is not paying anywhere, not even remotely close to 1K for a volume pot, not a chance.


That is actually used or second hand unit.  For many manufacturers, bulk buying powers get them around $550 or slightly less.  The thing about used parts (not everyone need them, diy is a small demand, let alone used unit).  Regardless, RK50 is still the most expensive and king of performances for it kind.  It is right to claim that they are using the most expensive products.

Let’s not talk about BOM costs, just look at their designs and MSRP.  We are mainly talking about this.  Why so expensive for off the shelves stuff ? Battery power and not linear power supply.

For the record, Li-ion battery or any other batteries has Life expectancy.  The power supply is very important for any expensive products, and ofcourse a discrete linear power supply would last a life time VS battery.  For this price, the batteries better be lifetime replacement free of charge.

We are not talking about Smartphones where people upgrade once per few years.  This is niche Audiophile equipments that needs to last for decades, and for this price, it should be


----------



## NehPets

nanaholic said:


> ...
> 6) a lot of the components are hand soldered, also they used in house developed lead free solder formula that is mixed with gold.
> ...


It would be interesting to find out more about this new solder alloy they've developed and whether it's been used everywhere, or just selectively.


----------



## purk

Price in the USA will be $7900 and that's a super heavy price tag indeed.  Chord Dave is now a slightly better deal.


----------



## thatonenoob

Earphone video up, we'll try to get the DMP-Z1 going soon.


----------



## thatonenoob

NehPets said:


> It would be interesting to find out more about this new solder alloy they've developed and whether it's been used everywhere, or just selectively.



While this solder type is exotic in most applications, it is very commonly found in high performance scientific equipment.  Nothing to write home about really, and definitely not a "new" discovery.


----------



## nanaholic

Sonic Defender said:


> Sony did not pay anywhere remotely close to $1000 for a volume pot, I would be shocked if they paid even $300. I found a DIY forum where in 2015 an RK50 was sold for $498US, and that is to a hobbyist. Sony is not paying anywhere, not even remotely close to 1K for a volume pot, not a chance.



It's custom made especially for Sony using OFC. I don't know what the original RK501 is made out of and google doesn't help (but logic will say if they are already made with OFC it would be heavily advertised as such and would easily come up in search). So with this level of customisation you actually have no idea how much they pay for one.


----------



## nanaholic

thatonenoob said:


> While this solder type is exotic in most applications, it is very commonly found in high performance scientific equipment.  Nothing to write home about really, and definitely not a "new" discovery.



A lot of things in electronics, especially for the tried and true audio application, are not revolutionary new discoveries, but rather step evolution and improvement on the basic building blocks and components. The circuit design themselves are already well understood (maybe even a little too well), leaving makers seeking improvements in better resistors, better capacitors, better diodes etc. If the don't have better DAC chips to play with (which comes in fairly predictable life cycles currently), then you go and improve the other building blocks, and if those building blocks aren't improving, they go out of their way and make their own. This seems to be what they have done here, while it's not something to write home about, but on the other hand to just brush that off entirely is not quite fair either.


----------



## Whitigir

I don’t see exotic solder being used in expensive audio gears, unless it is my DIY stuff.  So I can count the credit toward Sony for this, but still...exotic solder has existed since forever and not new


----------



## NehPets

thatonenoob said:


> While this solder type is exotic in most applications, it is very commonly found in high performance scientific equipment.  Nothing to write home about really, and definitely not a "new" discovery.





Whitigir said:


> I don’t see exotic solder being used in expensive audio gears, unless it is my DIY stuff.  So I can count the credit toward Sony for this, but still...exotic solder has existed since forever and not new


If they're just using this alloy to solder the Kimber Kables then I agree, it's no big deal, but if they've developed a gold-based alloy that's compatible with a mass soldering process and that mitigates the embrittlement issue associated with gold, then THAT is a big deal.


----------



## Whitigir

Mundorft has that kind of solder since forever, and has always been a big deal


----------



## Sonic Defender

nanaholic said:


> It's custom made especially for Sony using OFC. I don't know what the original RK501 is made out of and google doesn't help (but logic will say if they are already made with OFC it would be heavily advertised as such and would easily come up in search). So with this level of customisation you actually have no idea how much they pay for one.


You're right, we don't know what they paid, but to think it is anywhere near $1000 is crazy. That much we know.


----------



## purk

Another thing to remember is the DMP-Z1 is likely voiced for the Z1R so it may not be a neutral voicing.  I personally would go with something more powerful if you plan to drive the 300 ohm load or those hard to drive orthos.  I also think that the ZH1ES is more powerful than the Z1 given the same load.  Can anyone please tell me if Sony used an upgraded USB cable on the ZH1ES while put it up against the Z1?  I find the supplied Walkman to ZH1ES cable is holding the ZH1ES a good deal.  Thanks.


----------



## audionewbi

In paired the MDR-Z1R with a lot of various dap, all made the Z1R bass sounding bloated, but my WM1A made me almost buy it.

I asked my local Sony dealer, in Sydney, regarding the release of the new line, in particular the DMP, it is going to be in chord Dave territory.


----------



## Sp12er3

Subbing for news, as well I love Sony Audio products, even though this is definitely waaay~ out of my range, still will read for the popcorn


----------



## Sonic Defender

Sp12er3 said:


> ... still will read for the popcorn


And there will be popcorn for sure. All that remains to be determined is whether or not there is butter added to the popcorn.


----------



## Whitigir

I got the answer about battery.  It is Sony battery and it has 0 noises where as Linear Power Supply would still be having noises


----------



## purk (Aug 13, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> I got the answer about battery.  It is Sony battery and it has 0 noises where as Linear Power Supply would still be having noises



Battery power supply done right is superior to LPS interm of noise. Still, the lack of any DAC or line out puzzle me.  I still don't buy the whole Texas Instrument headphone module thing.  It's like I am doing all these front end works on the DAC side but I want to shortchange myself on the amplification stage.


----------



## Sonic Defender

purk said:


> Battery power supply done right is superior to LPS interm of noise. Still, the lack of any DAC or line out puzzle me.  I still don't buy the whole Texas Instrument headphone module thing.  It's like I am doing all these front end works on the DAC side but I want to shortchange myself on the amplification stage.


Is the Texas Instrument amp stage not up to the task in general, or is there a particular area of weakness that it has that concerns you? I haven't much time these days to research so I haven't looked into the amp side of this at all.


----------



## purk (Aug 13, 2018)

Sonic Defender said:


> Is the Texas Instrument amp stage not up to the task in general, or is there a particular area of weakness that it has that concerns you? I haven't much time these days to research so I haven't looked into the amp side of this at all.




*TPA6120A2 - Texas Instruments.  *You can do a search even on amazon.com and you will see that this particular chip is being used in various products mostly on the low end side, and on portable amps.  I'm sure that Sony will be able to extract the very best performance from this integrated chip but it is a far cry from the amplification stage of $2000 DAC/amp units.


----------



## audionewbi

TPA is used when you want a good measurement, I’m not a fan at all.


----------



## Pokemonn

You guys should know that IF Sony start to sell "perfect" products, then many small company will bankrupt...Lol


----------



## audionewbi (Aug 14, 2018)

So my friends slowly getting back home and I've asked them about various gears. The few who tested the DMP-Z1 all agreed it was good sounding but at this price point none of them got to see its purpose, they are all dominantly speaker users, so they have no proper respect for headphones, but they all saw themselves listening to such a setup at home, albeit they all disagreed on the price.

The IEM user friend hasnt replied back to my inbox yet, they are the one i'm hoping to hear from.

Sadly non of them tested the IER-Z1R.


----------



## audionewbi

Some interesting read, from marketing point of view of Sony that is!
https://www.sony.com.au/microsite/c...release_-_Sony_remasters_Signature_Series.pdf


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 14, 2018)

Thanks! I think in all of the newest release, the IER-Z1R is more a unique Sony move.  It has all the fancy stuff one can dream off.  The DMP-Z1 is such a failure for it pricing.  I don’t see this unit to be competing against a proper desktop setup at the same price at all.

The power output is only 1.5W at 16Ohms.  Now...that is a bit sad.  Why couldn’t Sony do with Sony own discrete amps....

Funny, the price of RK50 is so out of this world, yet to finally be in the end meeting an amp chip of

Buy by 1000x and the price of
*TPA6120A2: 1.66 cents*


----------



## audionewbi (Aug 14, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Thanks! I think in all of the newest release, the IER-Z1R is more a unique Sony move.  It has all the fancy stuff one can dream off.  The DMP-Z1 is such a failure for it pricing.  I don’t see this unit to be competing against a proper desktop setup at the same price at all.
> 
> The power output is only 1.5W at 16Ohms.  Now...that is a bit sad.  Why couldn’t Sony do with Sony own discrete amps....
> 
> ...


One of my friend who has the t+a dsd8 dac and uses its home PC to upsample everything to DSD using HQplayer said it best. He told me it isn't small enough to be portable and if you are at home why would you not just spend that money on a DAC/amp setup that can eventually be used in your home stereo if you happened to want to go down that path.

He loves his DSD and loves his DSD 8. Every year he keeps an eye on Sony to see whether the Sony/Phillip love child file format will release something special to handle DSD. He did not like the Sony TA-ZH1ES at all. He did like my WM1A paired with JVC FW01 but he is not a fane of 4.4mm plug, which I happened to love. He believes the single ended output, if designed correctly has alot of offer. He pairs a TH900 with the DSD 8, which happened to be my favourite closed back headphone as well. That headphone isn't too fussy about amping, which might explain his point of view.


----------



## Whitigir

DMP-Z1 is said to be *carriable !* It is the first of it kind, you just carry it inside your backpack if needed, and onto airplane pack to listen to it 

Still, this price point, and the pricing between rk50 vs tpa is mind boggling


----------



## audionewbi

Whitigir said:


> DMP-Z1 is said to be *carriable !* It is the first of it kind, you just carry it inside your backpack if needed, and onto airplane pack to listen to it
> 
> Still, this price point, and the pricing between rk50 vs tpa is mind boggling


I've heard the best potentiometer is none! But I do believe the RK50 will impact the sound, however lack of discrete headphone amp is very disappointing. It feels like they were giving a target selling point and were told to make a product as soon as possible!


----------



## Whitigir

audionewbi said:


> I've heard the best potentiometer is none! But I do believe the RK50 will impact the sound, however lack of discrete headphone amp is very disappointing. *It feels like they were giving a target selling point and were told to make a product as soon as possible*!



Yes, the RK50 ofoucrse will impact the sound (warmer signature and specially strong true fidelity bass performances).  I observe it, and there are others who also agrees.  You are correct that 0 potentialmeters is the best. I agree with the highlighted parts LOL.

See, the crossover network of IER-Z1R is fancy components and small enough to fit.  Ofcourse Sony has the ability to fit discrete amps just as small inside the DMP-Z1....but I Bet, the highlighted above happened !


----------



## Rinne H.

Reserved


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 14, 2018)

audionewbi said:


> I've heard the best potentiometer is none! But I do believe the RK50 will impact the sound, however lack of discrete headphone amp is very disappointing. It feels like they were giving a target selling point and were told to make a product as soon as possible!



That is not my impression at all. Again as I've said before:
1) This is a product by the Walkman team and not a TA product, they never intended for this to compete with the desktop amps from the other team, thus their philosophy is different from a TA amp and what they want to do. Thus batteries instead of transformers (both for noise reason AND because Walkmans will be running on batteries, duh), a self contained machine instead of one needing a source etc.
2) Again the idea of this product is for the team to explore what is possible/will be possible to be used in future Walkmans, a discrete amp section will not give them what they need to learn when the new S-Master comes out (which will be the IC amp in place of the TI chip here, obviously), and they focused their effort on the analog buffer stage - there's an entire separate PCB of the analog stage in the DMP-Z1 that is build with all of Sony's newest caps and condensers (all discrete components!), which sits completely separately in its own compartment in the H-shaped chassis. This is also something new in terms of chassis design - instead of the traditional U shape bath-tub design, they are doing an H-shaped separate compartment chassis for better EMI shielding and separation between the digital section and the analog section. This is definitely something I want them to apply to the Walkman.

Just because you don't understand the product there is no way that this thing was ordered by the top as a "just make one" device, not with the level of detail both Sato-san had been able to tell me regarding how each part came about, there's clearly lots of love given to this just by the way Sato-sans were able to talk about it. (I'm an EE grad, I know what it is like to throw together something which you don't want to do, the DMP-Z1 is clearly not such a thing).

Also PM Sato-san had said to me there will be a very detailed interview of the DMP-Z1 just like the WM1 interview. I asked him to get someone in the company to translate it professionally and release it in English so that people can understand their vision better - just like with the WM1 (and after I translated it, which I remember very vividly). He said there would at least be a Chinese version, and perhaps their Singapore branch will do it though no promises. I'd suggest you hold those speculations until you get to at least see the product from their POV.


----------



## purk (Aug 14, 2018)

Like I said before, I'm not getting the idea of the TI TPA chip.  If the company wants to use it in the walkman, why not prototype it in one of the walkman.  The DMZ should not be used as a test best given its pricetag.  I have sampled many desktop amplifiers, and the one with an integrated chip always sound the least expensive.  This is true given that you are trading performance with available space.   On desktop headphone amps, I'm most impressed by ECP audio.  You can search ECP T4 or Ravenswood or L3 and see the internal.  His circuit designs are very crafty and his build quality is second to none.  My ECP L3 + HD800/R10 can compete with the very top end electrostatic system head on including the KGSSHV + SR009.


----------



## Whitigir

Even Burson, a small company, can do a discrete Op-Amp design.  I don’t see why Sony can not....the idea of expensive front end including RK50 to just be choked down by TPA is crazy and make no senses.  Even IER-Z1R has discrete components for Cross over (thin film Capacitors and F-Resistors)


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> Even Burson, a small company, can do a discrete Op-Amp design.  I don’t see why Sony can not....the idea of expensive front end including RK50 to just be choked down by TPA is crazy and make no senses.  Even IER-Z1R has discrete components for Cross over (thin film Capacitors and F-Resistors)


Very much agreed here.  It sounds like they ran out of space and decided to use the integrated amp module to save space.  If you notice, Sony didn't say much about the amp module except "high quality analog amp module".  We need extreme top end at this level.


----------



## Kakki (Aug 14, 2018)

Actually, everyone knows that step attenuators with precision fixed resisters always sound much better than those variable attenuators...
You can see that almost all high-end pre-amps are now getting away from those traditional variable attenuators because they are not precise, not good in sound and also short in lifetime.

I still think that DMP-Z1 design philosophy is very much confused / compromised... because if Sato-san wants to make something new for the next generation Walkman, why is it a big traditional variable attenuator?
Everyone knows that it is very difficult to make a precision variable attenuator in small size ... that is why all precision / expensive variable attenuators are always big in size. They will not fit into the next generation Walkman.

All I can say is that DMP-Z1 is a very unique product (in a bad way) in SONY history based on very much confused / compromised design philosophy and has nothing to do with past good SONY traditions or DNA.
You can easily know that from the product name as well ... it has nothing to do with past TA series, nor ES / R-series.


----------



## Whitigir

Yeah, this product is of it own line.  Probably a water down version will soon be following.  Yeah, Sony loving people knows the company history and inspirations as much as discovery.  This one magnate to make everyone scratching their head.

The most unique and valuable offers now are: IER-Z1R, and MDR-Z7 MKII.


----------



## purk

They can also use 48-steps attenuator to reduce the cost, but the overall footprint will be longer than the RK50.  The RK50 is the best there is for continuous volume control and the only model that can match the performance of those stepped attenuators.  I actually prefer a well built 48-steps attenuator because you can always get an exact volume level.  Not sure if you guys are familiar with the quad RK40?  Those should work nearly as good as the RK50 but at significant saving.  Sadly the RK40 has been long discontinued.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> They can also use 48-steps attenuator to reduce the cost, but the overall footprint will be longer than the RK50.  The RK50 is the best there is for continuous volume control and the only model that can match the performance of those stepped attenuators.  I actually prefer a well built 48-steps attenuator because you can always get an exact volume level.  Not sure if you guys are familiar with the quad RK40?  Those should work nearly as good as the RK50 but at significant saving.  Sadly the RK40 has been long discontinued.


They want the most expensive components, except TPA...and I dont know why...I know they say because it sounds good


----------



## Whitigir

Also, some more details that I think I get correctly from Sony.

The DSP (Digital Signals Processor) inside WM1A/Z and Ta-ZH1ES, even DMP-Z1 are all the same from Sony in-house grown technology. This DSP chip is capable of DSD remastering with Sony in-house customized software. It is capable upto DSD256. However, it is not suitable for S-Master. Therefore, FPGA has to be used inside TA-ZH1ES for this feature, and Walkmans will not have this feature “enabled”. Where as DMP-Z1 will have it enabled by using the “pure By-Pass mode of DSD playback by AKM4497EQ”.

Sony deemed that this is the best of “Native DSD playback in sound performances, also the tonality of AKM chips” are the reason why Sony has decided to go with AKM4497EQ

Sony is back into the game to produce high performances audio equipments and focusing into transportable and portable, and we have already been blessed with the portable WM line of Walkman which will see foreseeable considerable upgrades by Firmwares. For example, the firmware has been under the table cooking for more than a year to perfect the USB DAC features and now is coming to WM lines.  *The DSP inside WM is meant for a long lasting future with firmware upgrades and additional features*. _However, at this moment, the momentum, the investigations, the engineering are always limited, which resulted in the limits of the current S-Master limitations, which after many trials and errors, _*was deemed to be outperformed for the purposes intended on the DMP-Z1 by the AKM4497EQ*.  _This doesn’t meant that Sony is abandoning the signature unique S-Master, but the team is working very hard to keep improving and soon will be releasing for the next foreseeable products lines_.  _This doesn’t mean that the S-Master inside the existed productions lines are lower performances than AK4497EQ or other Sigma-Delta architecture, just simply S-Master was not _*suitable for DMP-Z1 intended designs and purposes*. For the best of S-Master, there is dedicated Desktop TA-ZH1ES, and then there is portable WM1Z.

Again, let’s repeat. The DSP inside the current productions line are all firmware upgradeable for foreseeable features, and improved performances.

I hope this post was valuable, and help people to see the picture more clearly as of why Sony is doing what it does

*Regarding TPA* headphones amp chips.  Sony had been implementing it with other products and found it to be best performer and suitable for DMP-Z1 purposes.  Especially with discrete supportive components.  Therefore, the decisions to went with this design.  The purpose of the DMP-Z1 is to have good sound performances and not playing by the book


----------



## purk

All hail the Texas Instrument for creating the best all-in-one headphone amplifier module ever according to Sony!!  I'm going to tell Justin Wilson of Headamp to start using the TPA6120 chip in his GSX-MKII amplfier...and abandon those through-hole Vishay dale resistors and expensive exotic transistors as well as those quad mono power supply crap.  Such a discovery by Sony!


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> All hail the Texas Instrument for creating the best all-in-one headphone amplifier module ever according to Sony!!  I'm going to tell Justin Wilson of Headamp to start using the TPA6120 chip in his GSX-MKII amplfier...and abandon those through-hole Vishay dale resistors and expensive exotic transistors as well as those quad mono power supply crap.  Such a discovery by Sony!


He better start using thin film Resistors, F-Resistors, and those superbly new high power, low Esr, organic Capacitors by Sony for supportive components


----------



## thatonenoob

And for everyone waiting on the interview:


----------



## purk

Thanks for sharing this!! An interesting interview indeed.


----------



## audionewbi

DMP-Z1=SR-009s+SRM-T8000. Decision, decision, decisions.


----------



## buzzlulu

audionewbi said:


> DMP-Z1=SR-009s+SRM-T8000. Decision, decision, decisions.



Substitute T8000 with CARBON 
Now you are at Endgame


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 16, 2018)

Lol...are you sure DMP-Z1 is that good ? Or a proper desktop would do better

Dave + PC + Sr009s + Carbon .  

The DMP-Z1 price is at the GG+SR009S for sure


----------



## audionewbi

My dream DAC is berkman nyquist dac however for an all in one unit AT HA5050H is just amazing!


----------



## bmichels

interesting video :


----------



## Whitigir

That exploded view of Z1, it seems like there is no space inside to fit anything else LOL!  Was it the reason why TPA is being used ? I simply can not accept “because sound good” here


----------



## NehPets (Aug 16, 2018)

Shame we don't see all the circuit boards; this looks like the 'analogue' board, including some I/O, plus the 'power' board. Presumably, there're separate 'digital' and 'display' boards as well, that we haven't been shown.


----------



## nanaholic

NehPets said:


> Shame we don't see all the circuit boards; this looks like the 'analogue' board, including some I/O, plus the 'power' board. Presumably, there're separate 'digital' and 'display' boards as well, that we haven't been shown.



Because they use a H shaped chassis, all the digital components sits on the top compartment along with a single battery which powers all the digital components (SoC, DAC, LCD touch screen etc) which is naturally why the touch screen interface sits at the top of the device, and the bottom compartment is the analogue and power conditioning board with the 4 giant batteries making up the entire analogue stage, thus achieving complete digital and analogue board separation in the design.


----------



## Whitigir

It looked like the guy meant that the boards are 2 sided just like Walkman, and they don’t show the other side of each digital or analog boards


----------



## nanaholic

Whitigir said:


> It looked like the guy meant that the boards are 2 sided just like Walkman, and they don’t show the other side of each digital or analog boards



Both the analogue board and the digital board are double sided, and the layout is roughly as I described it as. Digital board is all the computer-y things, and the analogue board is all the output stage stuff.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 16, 2018)

I know, it is just that it would be nice to see the other side of the boards  I am also curious myself as where do they fit super capacitors.  Probably in the back

The interesting things is though, they no longer *soldered on the battery terminals*.  What about that sound good when directly soldered on statement ?


----------



## bmichels (Aug 16, 2018)

*Positive thinking: The $ 8000 US asked price COULD be a bargain*... with a little firmware upgrade from SONY:

Indeed, $ 8000 US for a " DAP Only " is hard to swallow BUT... if this device can double as our Desktop music server for our Home DAC, then it ...is a bargain (no need to buy a music server like ZENITH or AURENDER at home), Plus... no need to maintain 2 different Music & Playlist database (one in the DAP and one at home). Assuming that 1.2 Tb is enough, this will be very convenient ! 

In order to do this :

- The USB-C needs to be also usable as Digital Audio OUT ( to an External DAC)
- Sony needs to release some sort of AK Connect iPAD APP that will work through BlueTooth (since WiFi is not available) to manage/play the potential 1.2 Tb of Music stored on the Z1 (no way to do this with a 3" screen)

(and a little craddle with USB & Charging connections when the DMP- Z1 in inserted into it will help)

*Positive thinking #2: with some luck, it is not too late* to implement this through Firmware ( USB-C and BT are already hardware implemented)

With those upgrades, the DMP-Z1 can also become our home TOL Music server ( and battery operated...like the $ 18.000 US Aurender W20) and we will therefore be able to justify it's purchase to ourself and... our Wife

The only missing part in this scenario is that we will not be able to stream Qobuz or Tidal at home, which is a shame (I do NOT believe in good quality streaming through BT/Airplay ! )


So SONY, please, finish your work to make the DMP-Z1 a wonderful device

this is my modest 1 cent...


----------



## purk

I probably would buy one but that TPA amp module is really a no go for me.  Plus they have to make a trade off some where to keep the size some what transportable.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 16, 2018)

It already has Bluetooth and usb DAC function.  USB digital out ? Not sure.

But even if it can do all that, how can you be so sure that it can outperform something of a full blown desktop ? An auralic and a Chord TT stacks for example ?

How about WM1Z + TA-ZH1ES ? If it can outperform this, then it is worthy.  I however will seriously doubt it.  TA-ZH1ES was built with all discrete components even class D circuitry, and where as this Z1 has operational headphone amps TPA


----------



## NehPets

nanaholic said:


> Because they use a H shaped chassis, all the digital components sits on the top compartment along with a single battery which powers all the digital components (SoC, DAC, LCD touch screen etc) which is naturally why the touch screen interface sits at the top of the device, and the bottom compartment is the analogue and power conditioning board with the 4 giant batteries making up the entire analogue stage, thus achieving complete digital and analogue board separation in the design.


Based on the position of the USB-C port, microSD card slots and that massive volume knob, it looks like the analogue board sits directly beneath the display.


----------



## purk

It is possible that it may beat the TA-ZH1ES and WM1Z combo and it should given the price but it can't match the flexibility of those two units at double the price.


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 17, 2018)

NehPets said:


> Based on the position of the USB-C port, microSD card slots and that massive volume knob, it looks like the analogue board sits directly beneath the display.



Separated by a thick wall of aluminium of the H shaped chassis.  If you look at it from the front this is what it looks like

|======Screen=====|
| slot Digital PCB Board|
|================ |
|-----------------------------|
|Analogue PCB Board|
|================|


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 17, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> Separated by a thick wall of aluminium of the H shaped chassis.  If you look at it from the front this is what it looks like
> 
> |======Screen=====|
> | slot Digital PCB Board|
> ...



Very nice, I am curious, what do they use to connect Digitalboard into Analog board ? Ribbon cables ? Snap-in terminals ? Or Kimber ? I see the snap-in connections for the Batteries though

The first detailed (*click here) *about the impressions of the DMP-Z1 with google translate....I am surprised by how much google translate has improved

Basically, the same answer which I already posted few days ago.  The usages of TPA chips are not because Sony wanting to follow the book in design and engineering, but rather following the ears and preferences of the team.  Sony has taken “it sound good mentality” into another level.  Anyway, do you trust Sony ? If you do with the last signature line, then don’t hestitate to dip in DMP-Z1.  The price is of a combination of...as @purk mentioned : WM1Z + TAZH1ES + Z1R and Kimber Cables LOL


----------



## Deftone (Aug 17, 2018)

delete


----------



## Deftone (Aug 17, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> The DAC chips are never the expensive part in any summit fi audiophile system as they are usually the only mass produced parts that can be made cheap. Hell most audiophile grade capacitors easily cost more than the chips.
> 
> The attenuator in this device is said to be worth 1000 bucks here.



Attenuator - $1,000

2x 4497 Dac chip - $104

Hmm


----------



## Whitigir

Deftone said:


> Attenuator - $1,000
> 
> Dac chip - $52
> 
> Hmm


Because it sound good 0_0 

An nvme would be fancy, but that would need a much more sophisticated pcie interface.....are we talking about a full blown desktop here ? Nope, forget it, it doesn’t fit the purpose of *Carriable DMP-Z1*.


----------



## Deftone

Dithyrambes said:


> Stupid pricing. Nothing more to say. We all still thinking astell and kern is price gouging. Sony rode that bandwagon. 3k for a dap was already absurd but this dwarfs it.
> Makes a _*C*_*hord Dave* at 8k look like a good deal.
> 
> Or get *Hugo tt2* and an _*mscaler*_ lol.
> ...



Some very nice alternatives there


----------



## nanaholic

The FPGA in the Chord products aren't super expensive either in the grand scheme of the total cost of the product - the most expensive Spartan 6 series which is used in the DAVE (not sure which exact model) is no more than 200~300 dollars for a 10 grand product. What cost more is Rob Watt's personal software DAC code which makes the Chord product sings, without which even if you buy the exact same or better FPGA from Xilinx you cannot reproduce the "Chord sound". On a tangent, the increase advertising of Chinese audiophile products including FPGA is most definitely a sneaky marketing technique trying to cash in on Chord's success - preciously for the reason people don't actually know where the cost actually goes to.

Bringing up the cost of the DAC chip doesn't really make your argument convincing.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 17, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> The FPGA in the Chord products aren't super expensive either in the grand scheme of the total cost of the product (the most expensive Spartan 6 series in the DAVE is no more than 200 dollars for a 10 grand product). What cost more is Rob Watt's personal software DAC code which makes the Chord product sings, without which even if you buy the exact same or better FPGA from Xilinx you cannot reproduce the "Chord sound". On a tangent, the increase advertising of Chinese audiophile products including FPGA is most definitely a sneaky marketing technique trying to cash in on Chord's success - preciously for the reason people don't actually know where the cost actually goes to.
> 
> Bringing up the cost of the DAC chip doesn't really make your argument convincing.



You are correct and I totally agree.  If it was S-Master and FPGA as inside TA-ZH1ES, I would understand the unique approaches of Sony...but Mehhh

Dave at 8K is totally worth it if anyone have the budget, because it supports a company uniqueness, hard-work, patented technology, not off the shelves and done.  Sony being out done by Chord is ...not an acceptable fact


----------



## purk

@nanaholic 
so have you heard the DMP-Z1?  What do you think of it?


----------



## Deftone (Aug 17, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> The FPGA in the Chord products aren't super expensive either in the grand scheme of the total cost of the product - the most expensive Spartan 6 series which is used in the DAVE (not sure which exact model) is no more than 200~300 dollars for a 10 grand product. What cost more is Rob Watt's personal software DAC code which makes the Chord product sings, without which even* if you buy the exact same or better FPGA from Xilinx you cannot reproduce the "Chord sound"*. On a tangent, the increase advertising of Chinese audiophile products including FPGA is most definitely a sneaky marketing technique trying to cash in on Chord's success - preciously for the reason people don't actually know where the cost actually goes to.
> 
> Bringing up the cost of the DAC chip doesn't really make your argument convincing.



Most of us regular headfiers know this, my argument would be for, if Sony could not use current S-Master technology then why not create a new generation S-Master?

What we are happy to pay a lot of money for is innovation in DAC technology, the secret all custom code that has took years of work by experts, not an off the shelf chip set for beginners.

PSAudio and Chord are setting the bar in my opinion.


----------



## audionewbi

Lets just put it this way, based on Sony's past, using an off-the-shelf product for what is priced to be a flagship product is unheard-off, let alone uncommon. Traditionally Sony had a thing for not wanting to use an off the shelf product, and doing so on their premium product just looks out of place.

Perhaps if they waited and released this product using the next generation of the S-mater people will have less of a reaction. One might even argue that perhaps the S-master chip was never good, to a level that Sony felt uneasy using it on their flagship DAC/amp and decide to use something else for their flagship product.

Doesn't make sense from Sony product line history perspective.


----------



## NehPets

nanaholic said:


> Separated by a thick wall of aluminium of the H shaped chassis.  If you look at it from the front this is what it looks like
> 
> |======Screen=====|
> | slot Digital PCB Board|
> ...


With respect, I think you're mistaken.
Assuming that the large PCB shown in the video, with all the capacitors on it, is the analogue board, then there's no way it can sit in the lower half of the chassis because that board also has the two microSD card sockets and USB connector mounted on it, which are clearly in the upper half of the chassis, along with the display unit.


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 17, 2018)

Deftone said:


> Most of us regular headfiers know this, my argument would be for, if Sony could not use current S-Master technology then why not create a new generation S-Master?
> 
> What we are happy to pay a lot of money for is innovation in DAC technology, the secret all custom code that has took years of work by experts, not an off the shelf chip set for beginners.
> 
> PSAudio and Chord are setting the bar in my opinion.



Because making a new chip is not simple, and the last new S-Master chip came out with the WM1 series, which is barely 2 years old. And Sony said pretty firmly they are not abandoning development of the S-Master. So the most likely answer is - their S-Master development didn't get the performance they hoped and they need to change ship, which is a very common thing in chip development. Also unlike FPGA which is software based (that's what the F and P stands for you know - Field Programmable), Sony's S-Master chip is entirely fabricated on the silicon level as they actually make the silicon, Sony's production method is not really comparable to either Chord or PSAudio here.

Also Sony has incorporated a DSD conversion engine in the DMP-Z1 which is their own secret sauce, because you know, they created DSD and all that. Again people dismissing Sony's effort in their engineering thus far has been pretty unfair if you just focus solely on the DAC chip and DAC chip only.

EDIT: Also see what PSAudio themselves have to say about importance of DAC chips
https://www.psaudio.com/askpaul/how-important-is-the-dac-chip-itself/


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 17, 2018)

NehPets said:


> With respect, I think you're mistaken.
> Assuming that the large PCB shown in the video, with all the capacitors on it, is the analogue board, then there's no way it can sit in the lower half of the chassis because that board also has the two microSD card sockets and USB connector mounted on it, which are clearly in the upper half of the chassis, along with the display unit.








The microsd card slot is on the underside of the digital board.
The digital board is the one which has a lot of FT caps on it that are the same as the Walkmans, the actual analogue board (you can see in the background) is the one with the large gold coloured capacitors that is lying on the side.


----------



## NehPets

nanaholic said:


> The microsd card slot is on the underside of the digital board.
> The digital board is the one which has a lot of FT caps on it that are the same as the Walkmans, the actual analogue board (you can see in the background) is the one with the large gold coloured capacitors that is lying on the side.


Apologies. That'll teach me to make assumptions.


----------



## nanaholic

NehPets said:


> Apologies. That'll teach me to make assumptions.



No need to apologise. Sorting out these kinds of information I find is much more constructive than debating about DAC chip choices.


----------



## Deftone (Aug 17, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> Because making a new chip is not simple, and the last new S-Master chip came out with the WM1 series, which is barely 2 years old. And Sony said pretty firmly they are not abandoning development of the S-Master. So the most likely answer is - their S-Master development didn't get the performance they hoped and they need to change ship, which is a very common thing in chip development. *Also unlike FPGA which is software based (that's what the F and P stands for you know - Field Programmable)*, Sony's S-Master chip is entirely fabricated on the silicon level as they actually make the silicon, Sony's production method is not really comparable to either Chord or PSAudio here.
> 
> Also Sony has incorporated a DSD conversion engine in the DMP-Z1 which is their own secret sauce, because you know, they created DSD and all that. Again people dismissing Sony's effort in their engineering thus far has been pretty unfair if you just focus solely on the DAC chip and DAC chip only.
> 
> ...



I know what it means my friend, i dont really like your patronising replies. I also wouldnt join in on the conversation if i didnt understand any of this.

Im out anyway, i cant fathom how Sony expect people to pay so much for this unit or why somone would want to pay a premium for it, when you could save a bit more and get a Chord Dave or many other pieces of world class equipment people have mentioned. Each to their own as they say.


----------



## nanaholic

Deftone said:


> I know what it means my friend, i dont really like your patronising replies. I also wouldnt join in on the conversation if i didnt understand any of this.
> 
> Im out anyway, i cant fathom how Sony expect people to pay so much for this unit or why somone would want to pay a premium for it, when you could save a bit more and get a Chord Dave or many other pieces of world class equipment people have mentioned. Each to their own as they say.



Yet you don't seem to actually demonstrate that knowledge in your post by the way you compare a chip that is fabricated from scratch to FPGA, nor acknowledge the fact that the people at Sony had said why they made that choice in the DMP-Z1 repeatedly - the current S-Master isn't powerful enough for the goal so they choose the AKM DAC and TI amp chip, but they are in no way abandoning S-Master development.

There's nothing wrong with saying the DMP-Z1 is too expensive, heck I even said that directly to the people who made it. However making valid apples to apples comparison is essential to constructive discussion, and I find the people who keep implying Sony is half-hearting their effort here without even understanding the basic facts is the more patronising stance.


----------



## Whitigir

There is another reason why Sony didn’t adopt S-Master in Z1.

It was simply not capable of handling DSD correctly, so Sony opted for AKM4497EQ as Sony deemed that this specific DAC handles the jobs better.  This limitations of DSD and S-Master is already shown in the TA-ZH1ES.  The ES needs a good FPGA to help it accommodates the S-Master in the DSD Native task.

My questions is that. Why did they not make S-Master and FPGA like TAZH-1ES, but rather gone with AK4497EQ ? Simply put, it serves the purposes of the DMP-Z1, and that configurations of TA-ZH1ES just wouldn’t fit, period


----------



## Kakki (Aug 17, 2018)

10 years ago, when TA-DR1 was released in the market, the product designer Kanai-san mentioned that the switching speed of Silicon MOS-FET was the limitation for S-Master.
But 10 years have passed and we now have much more advanced switching devices such as SiC (Silicon Carbide) FET and GaN (Gallium Nitride)  FET that are still evolving and used only for the cutting-edge products.

Seeing that Panasonic is creating a flagship D-class power amplifier using GaN FET, I cannot help wondering why SONY could not create DMP-Z1 using a new S-Master using GaN FET or SiC FET.
https://www.technics.com/us/products/r1/se-r1.html

I will be very much pleased to pay $10,000 if only SONY created a new S-Master with FPGA / GaN FET and had a glass rid showing the shielded amplifier section. (maybe a gold-plated copper shielding panel with S-Master logo).
That will be much more attractive than AKM / TI general chips with old-style analogue big attenuater.


----------



## Whitigir

Kakki said:


> 10 years ago, when TA-DR1 was released in the market, the product designer Kanai-san mentioned that the switching speed of Silicon MOS-FET was the limitation for S-Master.
> But 10 years have passed and we now have much more advanced switching devices such as SiC (Silicon Carbide) FET and GaN (Gallium Nitride)  FET that are still evolving and used only for the cutting-edge products.
> 
> Seeing that Panasonic is creating a flagship D-class power amplifier using GaN FET, I cannot help wondering why SONY could not create DMP-Z1 using a new S-Master using GaN FET or SiC FET.
> ...



Yes, and this was my question toward Sony a few days back.  Their answer is actually that the current S-Master has it limitations, and at the moment can not be improved upon, but they are working on it.  At this moment, the DMP-Z1 is another line of product, and the AKM4497EQ was carefully selected after many considerations for the design directions and the product DMP-Z1 purposes, of which also surpass the current S-Master limitations.  The best of the current S-Master for desktop is TA-ZH1ES, and portables is wm1Z.

In my opinion, they simply answer that the best S-master is released from last year, and Sony will not improve it annually, but more like a life cycle.  Say if it was planned to last 3 years, then next year, we will see the next S-Master, but for now, there is no improved S-Master.  Rather, it is another product line


----------



## purk

But it is quite a shift though.  The ZH1ES is such a high value with an exceptional performance product.  The 1Z maybe even better performance wise but is definitely overpriced no matter how I look at it.


----------



## bmichels (Aug 19, 2018)

To be honest, I am not really concerned about SONY using AKM AK4497EQ DAC Chips instead of propriétary SONY solution.  Indeed, as we know it is the implementation of the chip tjat really matter. And do not forget that some 60.000 $ DACs like the ESOTERIC Grandioso Monobloc DACs also use AK4495S chips...

The Chip based Amplifier is more of a concern to me  (as well as the ridiculously small LCD Screen)... but we have to listen to it before jugement I guess...


----------



## AudiophileInTokyo (Aug 19, 2018)

A few thoughts...

It all comes down to sound quality. All else is secondary. I'll listen to this in the Sony Store in Ginza, Tokyo, when the times comes, and if it sounds better (to my ears) than the WM-NW1Z, I'll get it.

It's carriable, meaning you can bring it to and enjoy it at the office (assuming you have your own office), listen to it when travelling in your hotel room, in the plane, in the train, at the bar etc. However, this is not a Walkman and it cannot (and shouldn't) be used while walking around. It's simply too heavy for that. That's what the WM-NW1A and WM-NW1Z are for!

This obviously is NOT a consumer product, for the general public. This is for those _who can afford it_. Some people collect expensive watches, which cost upwards of 10,000 Euros, expensive jewelry, art, even luxury cars. Seen in that light, 8,000 Euros is really nothing. It's a nice, gorgeous piece of equipment you'll have in your flat, house.... or, more likely,  mansion.


----------



## bmichels (Aug 19, 2018)

AudiophileInTokyo said:


> A few thoughts...
> 
> It all comes down to sound quality. All else is secondary. I'll listen to this in the Sony Store in Ginza, Tokyo, when the times comes, and if it sounds better (to my ears) than the WM-NW1Z, I'll get it.
> 
> ...



Agree 100% with what you say.  Please let us know how it sound when you will have had a chance to listen to it

(also, if you have a chance to speak to knoledgeable people,* try to know if the USB-C can also be use as Digital-out* (to connect the Z1 to an external Desktop DAC) and if a Sony *iPad app like the AKConnect* will be released (to manage the Z1 player through an iPAD connected by BT to the Z1 rather than with the SMALL screen)


----------



## Whitigir

I am sure it sound better than 1Z


----------



## bmichels

Any idea of the* Weight of the unit *?  It is not mentioned on SONY's web site...


----------



## AudiophileInTokyo (Aug 19, 2018)

bmichels said:


> Any idea of the* Weight of the unit *?  It is not mentioned on SONY's web site...



According to some websites, it weighs around 2,5 kg!

https://www.gizmodo.jp/2018/08/sony-portable-audioplayer.html


----------



## nc8000

Another thing I find confusing is battery life. Most sites set it at 8-10 hours but in the other thread Whitiger set it at 90-100 hours


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> Another thing I find confusing is battery life. Most sites set it at 8-10 hours but in the other thread Whitiger set it at 90-100 hours


Did I ever said that ? It is only 9-10 hours


----------



## AudiophileInTokyo

Man, but this thing is gorgeous!

I assume the carrying case is sold separately?


----------



## nc8000

Whitigir said:


> Did I ever said that ? It is only 9-10 hours



Sorry it wasn’t you but somebody else who copied in from the Sony HK site. At that point it said 94-108 hours but the Sony site has now been updated to 9-10 hours


----------



## Whitigir

The case comes with it


AudiophileInTokyo said:


> Man, but this thing is gorgeous!
> 
> I assume the carrying case is sold separately?


----------



## audionewbi

I’m out, can’t justify the price.


----------



## purk

It's just a wrong trend price wise.  I get it that Sony wants to make profits but I really don't want to see any more of the price hike or obscene asking price similar to what Hifiman is doing.  For the asking price of the Z1, you can esasily have two if not three highend desktop systems one at your house, work, and vacation home.  Remember, you still need a pair of headphones to go with this rig. Most importantly, a flagship product deserves a better amplifier module than the TI TPA6120.


----------



## bmichels

AudiophileInTokyo said:


> According to some websites, it weighs around 2,5 kg!
> 
> https://www.gizmodo.jp/2018/08/sony-portable-audioplayer.html



Ough !


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> It's just a wrong trend price wise.  I get it that Sony wants to make profits but I really don't want to see any more of the price hike or obscene asking price similar to what Hifiman is doing.  For the asking price of the Z1, you can esasily have two if not three highend desktop systems one at your house, work, and vacation home.  Remember, you still need a pair of headphones to go with this rig. Most importantly, a flagship product deserves a better amplifier module than the TI TPA6120.



DMP-Z1 + Z1R is about the price of a Carbon + SR009 + a DAC like Yggy 

But...but...you can’t out done the 128Db dynamic range on the TPA though


----------



## bmichels

This is how I see the Ideal DMP-Z1   

Designed like this it could more easily justify it's uber-price by being able to also be used at home, connected to a Desktop DAC or a Speaker AMP.


----------



## Whitigir

1/ there would be problem with scaling the touch screen on Walkman OS.  Walkman OS was never made for touch screen.  However, with modifications, it is now touch screen OS.  Therefore, in order to not having to deal with touch screen and complicate the OS in anyways that may accidentally degrade the sound, the screen on DMP-Z1 is what it is, Walkman sized 

2/ the integrity of the chassis structure would be further compromises in order to securely fit and isolate inteferences between boards 

Those are my guesses


----------



## bvng3540

bmichels said:


> This is how I see the Ideal DMP-Z1
> 
> Designed like this it could more easily justify it's uber-price by being able to also be used at home, connected to a Desktop DAC or a Speaker AMP.


You should send this in to Sony, since it has not been released yet, they might have time to implemented


----------



## bmichels

bvng3540 said:


> You should send this in to Sony, since it has not been released yet, they might have time to implemented


SONY is a BIG company.  So no idea to where send it...


----------



## bvng3540

bmichels said:


> SONY is a BIG company.  So no idea to where send it...


If you dont, do you might if I send it in and take credit for it


----------



## bmichels

bvng3540 said:


> If you dont, do you might if I send it in and take credit for it



no problem.  Also, I believe it is way to late for a "hardware upgrade", but... they may at least do a Firmware upgrade to (1) make the USB-C also digital OUT to an external DAC, and to (2) to develop an iPad/iPhone App, to manage the internal library/player via an iPad/iPhone,  like AKConnect does...


----------



## Kakki (Aug 21, 2018)

Actually, I had a chat with a Sony’s Walkman marketing guy in an HiFi event in Japan and asked him if there’s any plan for creating an app that can remotely control Walkman.

To my deep disappointment, the guy seemed not understanding the benefit of such an app as Walkman already has its user interface on it...

It is very sad that a company like Sony is becoming a legacy company and being out of latest trend or user needs


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 21, 2018)

Kakki said:


> Actually, I had a chat with a Sony’s Walkman marketing guy in an HiFi event in Japan and asked him if there’s any plan for creating an app that can remotely control Walkman.
> 
> To my deep disappointment, the guy seemed not understanding the benefit of such an app as Walkman already has its user interface on it...
> 
> It is very sad that a company like Sony is becoming a legacy company and being out of latest trend or user needs



Marketing people are useless because they are not technologically minded, and are usually the last people who dictates where product development goes so are hardly indicative of, well, anything, in the company.

I already relayed that idea directly to Sato-san last year, he understood it and told me they've actually always considered it but it's a budget/demand issue because if they make an app it involves tapping into another team for talent, or they will have to add programmers to their team head count, plus all the other expenses needed to get an app submitted and approved (and they aren't allowed to piggy back on other team's resources). He already said if the demand is great enough it will most probably get pushed through. So next time, don't talk to the marketing people to make your intention clear, look for the relevant people, especially in Japan where the big guys like Sato-san usually do go himself.

EDIT: also don't forget the Walkman team is going back to a nearly 2 year old product (WM1) and is adding USB DAC, Bluetooth receiver and folder.jpg support, as well as the new vinyl processor DSP effect. If anything it shows the Sony Walkman team cares a lot about their products (show me products that gets new feature update for a 2 year old product), and how on point they are in terms of what users want regarding very technical features such as Bluetooth receiver and folder.jpg. So yeah, tell the Walkman team if you ever get the chance and forget about the marketing people.


----------



## bmichels (Aug 21, 2018)

*4 years Ago*, the competition already showed the way, with the A&K 500N, a battery operated Transportable server/streamer/Dac/Amp with... *A BIG TILTABLE Screen*, WiFi streaming, *many Outputs (analog & digital)* and an* iPad remote control app...*

Too bad SONY do not look at what the competition is doing... and improve it using their expertise and the new technologies.


----------



## nanaholic

bmichels said:


> *4 years Ago*, the competition already showed the way, with the A&K 500N, a battery operated Transportable server/streamer/Dac/Amp with... *A BIG TILTABLE Screen*, WiFi streaming, *many Outputs (analog & digital)* and an* iPad remote control app...*
> 
> Too bad SONY do not look at what the competition is doing... and improve it using their expertise and the new technologies.



Different team. Sony already has made a couple of network streamers designed for stationary use - the HAP-Z1ES/HAP-S1, with a build in screen, multiple outputs, and can be controlled by a smartphone app etc.


----------



## Whitigir

They are doing the same thing, but portable lol


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> They are doing the same thing, but portable lol



agree, "*battery operated Transportable*" is the key word.


----------



## Kakki

Yeah SONY can make any kind of excuses for being legacy and out-dated company. Have limited budget, difficult to involve other teams, not having good in-house technology ...

But the SONY I know could make PlayStation when there was no game business in SONY. They could make VAIO 505 when there was no portable PC business in SONY. They could even make a totally new format like CD and MD. They could even make their own MOS-FET when creating S-Master Pro...

It’s so sad that a company like SONY is now having difficulty creating a simple android or iOS app to control their Walkman because they cannot involve people working in the same building! What a shame. I really feel sorry to hear such childish excuses or complaints... what a disappointment.


----------



## robertjwarren

Kakki said:


> Yeah SONY can make any kind of excuses for being legacy and out-dated company. Have limited budget, difficult to involve other teams, not having good in-house technology ...
> 
> But the SONY I know could make PlayStation when there was no game business in SONY. They could make VAIO 505 when there was no portable PC business in SONY. They could even make a totally new format like CD and MD. They could even make their own MOS-FET when creating S-Master Pro...
> 
> It’s so sad that a company like SONY is now having difficulty creating a simple android or iOS app to control their Walkman because they cannot involve people working in the same building! What a shame. I really feel sorry to hear such childish excuses or complaints... what a disappointment.


Yep those are all things that SONY has done.  But regarding Android and iOS I imagine there is quite the concern with continued loss of market share to Google or Apple.  I mean neither of them has the need for SONY which could mean that in order to cooperate/collaborate on hardware or software SONY probably would have to bring something to the table to offer in good faith for the cooperation they would need.


----------



## Kakki

nanaholic said:


> show me products that gets new feature update for a 2 year old product



http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/ReleaseNotes

Linn is keep updating their DS firmware from 2011, adding new features and fixing bugs every few months. 

Linn is a much smaller company than SONY, as you may well know.


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 21, 2018)

Kakki said:


> It’s so sad that a company like SONY is now having difficulty creating a simple android or iOS app to control their Walkman because they cannot involve people working in the same building! What a shame. I really feel sorry to hear such childish excuses or complaints... what a disappointment.



It's not a childish excuse, in big companies different team often are not allowed to work across their own team boundaries, and internal politics quite often gets in the way. If you think that is childish, it probably just means you've never worked in a big company.

It's funny you brought up the PlayStation, because Kutaragi is very open about how much trouble he had and the amount of ridicule from the different Sony teams he got when he tried starting that project, because he was making "kids stuff" when the real man are making the important things.


----------



## purk

My ibasso DX50 also got a firmware update recently.


----------



## nanaholic

The last DX50 firmware on iBasso's website is 2016, I'll be very interested to hear what you got.


----------



## purk (Aug 21, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> The last DX50 firmware on iBasso's website is 2016, I'll be very interested to hear what you got.


And when did iBasso release that player?  2013 is your answer and that's $250 player.

If Sony is so great, why not doing anything to the firmware of the ZX1 and ZX2 and ZX100?  They didn't provide anymore firmware upgrade after 9 months.  The 1Z and 1A are the only two exceptions with firmware upgrade after 1.5 years.  How about the Vinyl processing on my ZH1ES?


----------



## Kakki (Aug 21, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> It's not a childish excuse, in big companies different team often are not allowed to work across their own team boundaries, and internal politics quite often gets in the way. If you think that is childish, it probably just means you've never worked in a big company.
> 
> It's funny you brought up the PlayStation, because Kutaragi is very open about how much trouble he had and the amount of ridicule from the different Sony teams he got when he tried starting that project, because he was making "kids stuff" when the real man are making the important things.


The real value is to make changes that are considered to be difficult. That is my feeling based on more than 10 years of work experience in one of the largest professional consulting firm in the world.
It’s funny that you brought up Kutaragi-san that he is one of the true leaders who changed this world. He could bring different companies together to make evolution... when Sato-san is having difficulty to get an engineer from a team next door.
I will bring up Linn again but they are releasing iOS remote control app for their network player. They are originally just a hardware company and had no engineers for app development. On the other hand SONY is releasing 10s of iOS apps and of course they are creating Xperia and related apps.
What you mentioned only suggested that how Sato-san is small as a leader and has no power to bring changes to this world...
If you don’t think his excuses are childish then it probably just means you've never worked in a big company and have no experience making big changes.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> And when did iBasso release that player?  2013 is your answer and that's $250 player.
> 
> If Sony is so great, why not doing anything to the firmware of the ZX1 and ZX2 and ZX100?  They didn't provide anymore firmware upgrade after 9 months.  The 1Z and 1A are the only two exceptions with firmware upgrade after 1.5 years.  How about the Vinyl processing on my ZH1ES?


Your Dx200Ti is coming tomorrow .  Hope you are excited over it lol


----------



## nanaholic

purk said:


> And when did iBasso release that player?  2013 is your answer and that's $250 player.
> 
> If Sony is so great, why not doing anything to the firmware of the ZX1 and ZX2 and ZX100?  They didn't provide anymore firmware upgrade after 9 months.  The 1Z and 1A are the only two exceptions with firmware upgrade after 1.5 years.  How about the Vinyl processing on my ZH1ES?



Please don't lie - the ZX1 was released in 2013 and it received its last update in 2015, which is 2 years full support, the ZX2 being really no different than the ZX1 build upon it so it already had a fully working firmware. Also the comparison to begin with is apples and oranges - the ZX1 and ZX2 are Android devices with full Google Play support, Sony has been very clear why they dropped Android with Play is because it requires certification from Google, which adds cost. It's also another reason why you now see almost no DAPs with Android with Play Store support, that's just the fact of the industry. They did drop the ZX100 likely because it didn't sell well and was a dead end (non-touch), but in terms of stability the ZX100 was solid and didn't lack anything.

Again the ZH1ES is a different team product, take it up with that team.


----------



## nanaholic (Aug 24, 2018)

Kakki said:


> The real value is to make changes that are considered to be difficult. That is my feeling based on more than 10 years of work experience in one of the largest professional consulting firm in the world.
> It’s funny that you brought up Kutaragi-san that he is one of the true leaders who changed this world. He could bring different companies together to make evolution... when Sato-san is having difficulty to get an engineer from a team next door.



If you work as a consultant then I'm even more surprised you think just grabbing resources from another team is easy. Based on my 5+ years working at one of the largest Japanese electronics company and 10+ years in Japan in general, not being able to grab another person/resources from another team is pretty much par for the course, as each project/team is supposed to manage their own resource and budget so no division head will just let you grab their person and have them work on another project on their budget - this simply won't fly. You either hire your own staff on your own team budget, or the other team will bill you for the manhours internally for borrowing their  staff to work on your project - even if that programmer is originally doing nothing but twirling his thumbs - this is extremely par for course.

Also Kutaragi was known to be a big douche - his story regarding how he made the PlayStation was that he basically black-mailed everyone around him to get things done, it paid off once for the PS1 but only because a majority of the people at Sony was doing it out of spite because Nintendo pulled the rug under them by cancelling their order for the PlayStation add-on, so they just sucked it up with the crap Kutaragi was giving them and united against Nintendo the external enemy. Then Kutaragi's head got stuck in the clouds and ride the wave for the PS2 and he screwed up big time for the PS3 and lost 2 generations worth of massive video game income for the company. He's hardly someone to be held up with such high regard in terms of working ethics and achievements. Someone revolutionary but keeps a nice friendly profile will be like Miyamoto-san of Nintendo.


----------



## purk (Aug 24, 2018)

I own the ZX1 and ZX2 and paid nearly $2k for both.  They are very lackluster now in term of operation and deserve a software update.   Pleaee don't  give me those certification excuses.  How about a native DSD playback for zx100, ZX1, and 2?

 Whether u like my opinion or not, that's how I feel about those two players.  You seem to think that the Walkman team can do no wrong and that's where we really differ.  Myself on the hand is one of Sony's biggest fan, but I am not afraid to call them out when they are shortchanging their customers when I see one.  Have u worked at Sony at one point?


----------



## Kakki

nanaholic said:


> If you work as a consultant then I'm even more surprised you think just grabbing resources from another team is easy. Based on my 5+ years working at one of the largest Japanese electronics company and 10+ years in Japan in general, not being able to grab another person/resources from another team is pretty much par for the course, as each project/team is supposed to manage their own resource and budget so no division head will just let you grab their person and have them work on another project on their budget - this simply won't fly. You either hire your own staff on your own team budget, or the other team will bill you for the manhours internally for borrowing their  staff to work on your project - even if that programmer is originally doing nothing but twirling his thumbs - this is extremely par for course.
> 
> Also Kutaragi was known to be a big douche - his story regarding how he made the PlayStation was that he basically black-mailed everyone around him to get things done, it paid off once for the PS1 but only because a majority of the people at Sony was doing it out of spite because Nintendo pulled the rug under them by cancelling their order for the PlayStation add-on, so they just sucked it up with the crap Kutaragi was giving them and united against Nintendo the external enemy. Then Kutaragi's head got stuck in the clouds and ride the wave for the PS2 and he screwed up big time for the PS3 and lost 2 generations worth of massive video game income for the company. He's hardly someone to be held up with such high regard in terms of working ethics and achievements. Someone revolutionary but keeps a nice friendly profile will be like Miyamoto-san of Nintendo.



I'm really shocked to hear that, in the largest Japanese electronics company, there is no proper approval process to get budget / resources for new projects!!

Getting new projects / resources approved is not that big deal if you can write a good project plan / business cases to convince the management members in your company.
That is... at least how my clients are getting external resources like me. Even young manager level members can get 1 million-dollar size of budget approved if there is a good reason starting the projects. It seems that you have very limited experience doing this kind of process after 15+ years of work experience...

Since there are AK Connect, Hiby Links and Chord Poly in the market (and also, SONY is already selling Bluetooth remote control hardware for Walkman...) it will NOT be that difficult to get a project approved to create a remote control app for Walkman. and also, there are people keep requesting such an app in the HiFi events and in this kind of HiFi forums.


----------



## krayzie (Aug 27, 2018)

Japanese company or not it really depends on how bad you need that resource and who's heading the project.

Look at Toyota, when they couldn't get the 86/BRZ FA20 engine to make 200hp and rev beyond 7000rpm during development they managed to get the engineer in charge of engine development for the Lexus LF-A to lend a hand and figured things out. But then the 86/BRZ was Toyota CEO's pet project (i.e. success at all costs).

I forget which Sony book I've read, either Made in Japan or Digital Dreams: The Work of the Sony Design Center; but I thought at one point Sony upper management actually encouraged dialog and idea exchange between teams across normal company boundaries, then again that was decades ago.

Anyway I look forward to that possible DSD Remastering Engine firmware update for the NW-WM1.


----------



## Whitigir

LFA is still Toyota, isn’t it ?


----------



## krayzie (Aug 28, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> LFA is still Toyota, isn’t it ?



Yes and that was also the CEO's pet project so nobody's gonna say no when it comes to resource sharing, they must have a special cost center of unlimited funds lol!

I'm wondering if this DMP-Z1 is filling in the niche gap of yesteryear's CDP-R1/DAS-R1 or CDP-R10/DAS-R10 or SCD-1 type of product. Sony's personal audio group never really had a product of this price point in the past and now that the disc spinner is a sunset technology which merits no further development. I've read on the web a while back that a very expensive desktop unit that could be priced at 5 digits was going to be launched, this is probably the very product rumored.

I think they must have something else up their sleeves for the Walkman 40th anniversary. This can't be it.

And this IER-Z1R is the new non-customized Just.Ear that was rumored for a while now too I take it.


----------



## addyg

I listened to dmp-z1 during the hk show. I also compared to most of the pricest dap like the Cayin N8, hifiman R2R2000, (wm1z , sp1000 three versions). And also top of the show Audio Technica L5000 desktop sets x2, Sony's own desktop amplifier set.


----------



## Whitigir

addyg said:


> I listened to dmp-z1 during the hk show. I also compared to most of the pricest dap like the Cayin N8, hifiman R2R2000, (wm1z , sp1000 three versions). And also top of the show Audio Technica L5000 desktop sets x2, Sony's own desktop amplifier set.


And I suppose it should kill all of those DAP as it is 2.5x in price


----------



## addyg

My 5 cents:

There is no DAP can challenge the dmp-z1 in term of sound quality, sound stage, hi-fi quality.

It is on par with one of the Audio Technica demo set priced around 15k USD (laptop, SA-10 as usb dac, re leaf E3 hybrid amplifier, L5000 special edition headphone) in term of Vocal and pops. 

It is not as good in term of classical pieces as the above set. (But it may be the issue of Sony's own z1r headphone not on par with the Audio technical L5000 which is priced at 4k USD)


----------



## addyg

The dmp-z1 operates and feel like a real desktop hi-fi equipment as you turn the silky analog volume (this piece of Volume also equipped in some Luxman pre-amps).

It sounds more like the sp1000 but with analog tone. So it has a bit of Sony's warm sound texture due to software.


----------



## Whitigir

addyg said:


> My 5 cents:
> 
> There is no DAP can challenge the dmp-z1 in term of sound quality, sound stage, hi-fi quality.
> 
> ...


Of course, what about Chord TT2 though, probably obliterate the Z1


----------



## addyg

It sounds much cleaner and dark in background the the Sony's wm1z. 

With the same headphone (z1r) when comparing to Sony's own desktop amplifier it also sound more 3D with more density.


----------



## addyg

The only thing it is not very good at is classical music. So it may need to be reviewed more with better headphones (whose better at classical music)


----------



## addyg

Whitigir said:


> Of course, what about Chord TT2 though, probably obliterate the Z1



I have no experience with TT2, but a few experience with Hugo2. But as it already come on par with some very good dac/amp like the SA-10, HA5050AH, I think it should be on par or better than TT2.


----------



## addyg

I studied a bit about its internal amplifier board. 

The special thing that got me is that it has eight +/- power wires supplying the left and right channel. 

That is bi-amp in speakers guy wording. Meaning each channel (e.g. left) is driven by two amplifiers. So this thing has four amplifiers all with their own power supply.


----------



## Whitigir

addyg said:


> I studied a bit about its internal amplifier board.
> 
> The special thing that got me is that it has eight +/- power wires supplying the left and right channel.
> 
> That is bi-amp in speakers guy wording. Meaning each channel (e.g. left) is driven by two amplifiers. So this thing has four amplifiers all with their own power supply.



Huh ? I am confused as what you are trying to say here.  

Anyways, Chord TT2 is another class from Hugo 2.  But personal preferences win though.  If you buy the Z1 as soon as it comes out, I can’t wait to hear impressions


----------



## addyg

The DAC board is believed to output analog signals and the amplifier board is totally analog amplifiers. 

So it actually is two machines in one housing.


----------



## addyg

Some details about the amplifier board. Look special at how many black/red wires from the two batteries (I believe there are four batteries actually)


----------



## addyg

How big are the batteries comparing to a large size dap (my dp-x1 is sample size as the sp1000)？ you may take a look at the below photo.


----------



## addyg

There is no figure about the mah size of amplifier batteries. But I think it is 5-8 times of my 1860mah. 

The power output (balanced) is at 10 times of my dp-x1. Given playing time is about the same 10 hours.


----------



## addyg

Because it is a pure analog amplifier board, the short fall must be the resistance type Volume controller. 

If you see most desktop preamp has big volume knob (some with large number of resistors). That won't even fit into such tiny case (tiny in term of desktop amplifier).

So a large part of the space actually is given to the volume controller (ALPS RK501).


----------



## addyg

If you look at the photo #295, you will probably see what I mean. It is actually quite jammed inside such a casing to fit in 1) resistance type volume controller, 2) analog amplifier board, 3) two big batteries.


----------



## Whitigir

There are no bi-amping in there, and those Fine Gold Nichicon isn’t even the best of Nichicon. Yeah, everyone love that RK50, and so do I.  But it is a waste to put in such device, where the amplification stage is using TPA


----------



## purk

We need blackgate capacitors!!


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> We need blackgate capacitors!!


At this price, it better be a Flux capacitors


----------



## addyg

Actually, if Sony stop the design at this board. I think it can still challenge the sp1000 wm1z. This board already output analog signal I think powered at line out level (the maximum volume of some dap).


----------



## acap13

@addyg where did you demo the DMP Z1?


----------



## krayzie




----------



## Whitigir

Hell, if my parent wanted to buy me a Walkman, they can’t afford this DMP-Z1


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> Hell, if my parent wanted to buy me a Walkman, they can’t afford this DMP-Z1



Hey, maybe we are being too hard on Sony.  This thing may just blow our mind/ears right?  They didn't spend much time highlighting why the TI integrated amp module are so great in the promotional video.  I do get it why they have chosen dual DACs, battery PSU, as well as the RK50 for that matter.  A 48-stepped attenuator would have been a better choice IMO.


----------



## Whitigir

My mind is already blown by Sony not calling it Walkman at first, and now using Walkman related to advertise the unit....Sony blown my mind on so many level with this thing ....in a way


----------



## kaiwenwu

beast dap ever


----------



## purk

kaiwenwu said:


> beast dap ever


At that price and size, coming in second place is really not acceptable right?


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> At that price and size, coming in second place is really not acceptable right?



Totally, eventhough the TPA is ways....behind the Burson amps, like...4th...5th...6th place ? I have no idea.  However, for this price, it is supposedly to be outperforming each and every Digital Portable Players out there in a day and night differences that can be observed in seconds.


----------



## jwbrent

I like it and want one.


----------



## jwbrent (Sep 2, 2018)

Needs RCA fixed/variable outputs on the rear panel.

https://darko.audio/2018/09/ifa-2018-sony-launch-e8500-2-5kg-dmp-z1-walkman/


----------



## jwbrent

I don’t see any mention of an app to control it from an iPad or other such device, but I can’t image there won’t be one.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/walkman/dmp-z1


----------



## nc8000

jwbrent said:


> I don’t see any mention of an app to control it from an iPad or other such device, but I can’t image there won’t be one.
> 
> https://www.sony.com/electronics/walkman/dmp-z1



Based on the interviews with the designers referenced earlier in this thread there probably wont be an app


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> Based on the interviews with the designers referenced earlier in this thread there probably wont be an app


You never known...the same as DAC usb function on wm1A/z Walkman Lol


----------



## nc8000

Whitigir said:


> You never known...the same as DAC usb function on wm1A/z Walkman Lol



True but as far as I know they never said that there would not be usb dac


----------



## NehPets

jwbrent said:


> ...
> 
> https://darko.audio/2018/09/ifa-2018-sony-launch-e8500-2-5kg-dmp-z1-walkman/


Interesting remarks about the superior sound quality of aluminium.


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 2, 2018)

NehPets said:


> Interesting remarks about the superior sound quality of aluminium.


Yeah, and that is why WM1A is more expensive than WM1Z....oh...wait...DMP-Z1_*Z*_ will run about 16k


----------



## jwbrent

nc8000 said:


> Based on the interviews with the designers referenced earlier in this thread there probably wont be an app



Remotely controlling such a device is pretty standard fare, it would be a surprise if it turned out there is no way to do this.

My interest has waned since the only way to connect with RCA outs would be through using an external DAC. Yes, one could always use the 3.5mm output with the appropriate cable, but then you have a visual eyesore with the cable looping to the front, and with a compromised connection.

The initial appeal was an all in one solution as a source for my speaker system. I like the elegance of simplicity/minimalism. However, it is debatable that the digital section would perform as well as my Qutest DAC.

When Sony released the HAP-Z1ES four years ago to overall applause, I thought having a one box solution with file storage, DAC, and a preamp/UI would become quite popular, but other than Aurender and a few others, this hasn’t been the case. It seems using a computer with an external DAC and hard drive has become the standard for file based playback over a speaker system.


----------



## nc8000

jwbrent said:


> Remotely controlling such a device is pretty standard fare, it would be a surprise if it turned out there is no way to do this.
> 
> My interest has waned since the only way to connect with RCA outs would be through using an external DAC. Yes, one could always use the 3.5mm output with the appropriate cable, but then you have a visual eyesore with the cable looping to the front, and with a compromised connection.
> 
> ...



I know, I do it with my Auralic Aries Mini but from the interviews that have been referenced the Sony developers did not seem to understand why anybody would want to do that with this device


----------



## Sp12er3

I hear this one is made from the Walkman team rather than the TA desktop one. Which is why they really only cater to headphone in here, he said it exactly, "bringing the best sound to your bed" so he want it to be exactly that, transportable rather than desktop restricted.

One rep said, "if you want more connections, just get the TA-ZH1ES".


----------



## purk

Sp12er3 said:


> I hear this one is made from the Walkman team rather than the TA desktop one. Which is why they really only cater to headphone in here, he said it exactly, "bringing the best sound to your bed" so he want it to be exactly that, transportable rather than desktop restricted.
> 
> One rep said, "if you want more connections, just get the TA-ZH1ES".



Well, in this case you can get four TA-ZH1ES(s) and one ZX300 for nearly the same price as one Z1.....one system for every room.


----------



## PCheung (Sep 3, 2018)

NehPets said:


> Interesting remarks about the superior sound quality of aluminium.



The volume knob should be gold plated OFC, not aluminum if I didn't misunderstand the Japanese.

The body is aluminum though.

Maybe @nanaholic can confirm on this


----------



## Redcarmoose

Sony DMP-Z1 $8,000 USD Digital Music Player Unveiled


https://www.innerfidelity.com


----------



## Xbmyc

This certainly can be portable, you just have to hold it with both hands.
I mean it would just be like this.


----------



## Whitigir

Xbmyc said:


> This certainly can be portable, you just have to hold it with both hands.
> I mean it would just be like this.


Roflmao, this guy is so serious on portable setup.  He may be the inspiration of Sony DMP-Z1 and also the price is inspired by his hair cut .  How in the hell do you listen to open back headphones on a subway ? That noises add musicality ?


----------



## purk

Xbmyc said:


> This certainly can be portable, you just have to hold it with both hands.
> I mean it would just be like this.



All of that and he was rocking Grado?   Open headphones in a noisy setting, really?


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> All of that and he was rocking Grado?   Open headphones in a noisy setting, really?


Exactly my point LOL!


----------



## Xbmyc

Whitigir said:


> Roflmao, this guy is so serious on portable setup.  He may be the inspiration of Sony DMP-Z1 and also the price is inspired by his hair cut .  How in the hell do you listen to open back headphones on a subway ? That noises add musicality ?


The hair cut is for less sound distortion from hair you know


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 5, 2018)

That makes a lot of sense....I can see shaving off the ear lobes and outer ears  would serve even a better purposes


----------



## purk

Xbmyc said:


> The hair cut is for less sound distortion from hair you know


I would like to meet this guy one day.  Here you go.....a true target customer for the 1Z design team!


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> I would like to meet this guy one day.  Here you go.....a true target customer for the 1Z design team!


Probably the DMP-Z1 is voiced for grados synergies too, the more I think about it....lol


----------



## addyg

Back to this thread of beloved DAP ever.

I think you don't need to carry it for daily. You have better choice like dp-x1(a) which I have been happily using for three year. You know. Convenience of listening to 45million songs .

But if you are serious about a DAP , given that there is no requirements of size. Sony DMP-Z1 is a piece of serious DAP.


----------



## addyg

In HK, it is priced lowest in the world. Hkd61880 / 6750euro. So after 1 year, one may pick up a nice piece at 5000euro 2nd handed. 

I don't think that is too scary of a price given that many cables sell at 2000euro nowadays. Right?


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 5, 2018)

addyg said:


> In HK, it is priced lowest in the world. Hkd61880 / 6750euro. So after 1 year, one may pick up a nice piece at 5000euro 2nd handed.
> 
> I don't think that is too scary of a price given that many cables sell at 2000euro nowadays. Right?


Right, and that was what I said.  If cables could be sold that expensive, why not a device.....voila, we have DMP-Z1.  Snake oils everywhere.  Sad to see a leader company would do such


----------



## syke

Xbmyc said:


> The hair cut is for less sound distortion from hair you know



That's nothing, I have seen far worse than that on the streets of Hong Kong. I find that really over the top, makes me wonder what non-head-fi folks would even think of it.


----------



## YesThisIs

Couple of things that annoy/bother me about this product:


Sony is charging 9000$ for this, yet they don't bother to even implement OLED display to the device. 90% of the screen is black and OLED would look soooo much more premium. (bit of a nitpick) 


There are multiple batteries inside of this device. a) What if the Batteries lose their capacity over time? Will Sony give 5+ years of warranty for this? b) What if the batteries swell overtime? 


There is no XLR (3- or 4-pin) on 9000$ "high-end/TOTL" - Amp. It's ridiculous


...And more importantly, there is NO PORTS, (Other than USB) on the back... WHAT?! Why?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Xbmyc said:


> The hair cut is for less sound distortion from hair you know



Not human, definitely not a human.


----------



## bmichels (Sep 11, 2018)

YesThisIs said:


> Couple of things that annoy/bother me about this product:
> 
> 
> Sony is charging 9000$ for this, yet they don't bother to even implement OLED display to the device. 90% of the screen is black and OLED would look soooo much more premium. (bit of a nitpick)
> ...



Agree 100%.
A bigger screen, digital-Out and fixed line-out are IMO mandatory in such a big and expensive device and will allow to also use it as the Music server for our speaker system ou our big headphone amplifier.  A shame ....


----------



## PCheung

Do OLED nowadays still have burn mark problem? Also does it consume less power than TFT panel?
Also, a big touch display panel means greater power consumption also adding a weak point on the surface, so I don't see the point using a big touch panel on a music playback only machine, but I do hope they bring out an app to let user select songs loaded in 1Z via smartphone.

I guess the more port on the back, the more chance to damage during transport, as this machine is not designed for a stationary system, like the TA headphone amp, they try to design this machine as clean as possible. I'm thinking it as a huge-size Walkman, only to play music from it internal memory.

I also do hope they include a XLR4, but seems the design team think 4.4 port do the job better. (and SONY is the big pusher behind 4.4 port standard).


----------



## NehPets

bmichels said:


> Agree 100%.
> A bigger screen, digital-Out and fixed line-out are IMO mandatory in such a big and expensive device and will allow to also use it as the Music server for our speaker system ou our big headphone amplifier.  A shame ....


It'll be a shame if they haven't enabled analog and digital out via USB-C. I wonder whether anyone on the Walkman design team uses an Xperia phone?


----------



## syke

PCheung said:


> Do OLED nowadays still have burn mark problem? Also does it consume less power than TFT panel?
> Also, a big touch display panel means greater power consumption also adding a weak point on the surface, so I don't see the point using a big touch panel on a music playback only machine, but I do hope they bring out an app to let user select songs loaded in 1Z via smartphone.
> 
> I guess the more port on the back, the more chance to damage during transport, as this machine is not designed for a stationary system, like the TA headphone amp, they try to design this machine as clean as possible. I'm thinking it as a huge-size Walkman, only to play music from it internal memory.
> ...



still does... look at all the samsung phones.

Hong Kong taxi drivers are the best test candidates. They have 5-6 samsung mobile phones on their dashboard to keep track of the taxi booking apps. Most of these samsung phones have burn in issues.


----------



## Whitigir

At this price range, it should be called “pocket-man”.  Because it is simply pocket damaging


----------



## YesThisIs (Sep 11, 2018)

There are some features that can be implemented into the OLED screen. For example, you could dimm the screen and after a while turn the screen of the prevent burn in.  Or (Lenovo did this with their Laptops couple of years ago with the taskbar) you could move the elements on screen  after x -minute of time to prevent burn in. Samsung also does this with their AOD-screens.

OLED is more expensive than LCD and implementing these kinds of features would cost extra R&D. But when you are asking 9000$ for an AMP/DAC. There really should be no excuses of cutting corners.

In the High-end market it's all about little details. When you have LCD that is constantly on, on black screen, you will notice the backlight bleed. (especially in dark room) And when the whole unit is mostly black. It stands out and also make it feel/look less premium.

And btw, if Sony fears about burn in. They wouldn't have put li-ion batteries into these things. Li-ion batteries tend to loss capacity overtime and especially if you leave them plugged in and let them be at 99-100% charge constantly. (Which most people will probably do if they use this thing as an desktop amp)


----------



## nanaholic

YesThisIs said:


> There are some features that can be implemented into the OLED screen. For example, you could dimm the screen and after a while turn the screen of the prevent burn in.  Or (Lenovo did this with their Laptops couple of years ago with the taskbar) you could move the elements on screen  after x -minute of time to prevent burn in. Samsung also does this with their AOD-screens.
> 
> OLED is more expensive than LCD and implementing these kinds of features would cost extra R&D. But when you are asking 9000$ for an AMP/DAC. There really should be no excuses of cutting corners.
> 
> In the High-end market it's all about little details. When you have LCD that is constantly on, on black screen, you will notice the backlight bleed. (especially in dark room) And when the whole unit is mostly black. It stands out and also make it feel/look less premium.



LCD backlight bleed is not necessarily an issue. The WM1 series has one of the blackest LCD screen I've seen on players with almost no bleeding - even when the entire UI is based on a black background in comparsion to some which uses AMOLED (as some companies just love to boost the colour contrast to make the CD art "pop" on their AMOLED screen - a cheap and known tactic used in TV that shows up instantly when you have a black background). You have to look beyond the base tech and see how the execution actually came out. Just crying "dur LCD not OLED" is a lazy form of criticism.


----------



## syke (Sep 11, 2018)

For longevity, I much prefer LCD over OLED.
OLED are better for TVs, and gadgets used under the sun.

I think it is perfectly sensible to have the DMP-Z1 utilising a LCD screen even at this price range. Just like the above poster said, don't just look at the specs, it's the execution that is more important.


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 11, 2018)

Regardless, battery will still be an issue for longevity.  What do you do after 3-4 years ?  Beside, let’s talk about sound quality and TP integrated amp chips ? Shall we ? I used to use Walkman that had 0 screen, the original Walkman.  I do not care what screen it has, I do care a lot about sound quality.

Why an $8 device is using a cheap integrated amplifier chip instead of a discrete amplifiers? Even Burson can do a better job


----------



## syke

Whitigir said:


> Regardless, battery will still be an issue for longevity.  What do you do after 3-4 years ?  Beside, let’s talk about sound quality and TP integrated amp chips ? Shall we ? I used to use Walkman that had 0 screen, the original Walkman.  I do not care what screen it has, I do care a lot about sound quality.
> 
> Why an $8 device is using a cheap integrated amplifier chip instead of a discrete amplifiers? Even Burson can do a better job



One less part to worry about? If I ever had one of these, they will be sitting nicely on my desk... forever... No way, I will be using them on the go. Therefore, the battery becomes less of a worry.

By the way, we are talking about screens now.


----------



## Whitigir

Battery will be a problem if you are using it on the go.  4-5 years from now, it will be depleted and reduced in capacity 

You better use it on the desk, where you can option and choose to use AC - main power and run it with a Linear power supply instead, and as you don’t use battery, it will last longer that way


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> Battery will be a problem if you are using it on the go.  4-5 years from now, it will be depleted and reduced in capacity
> 
> You better use it on the desk, where you can option and choose to use AC - main power and run it with a Linear power supply instead, and as you don’t use battery, it will last longer that way



Yup, a quad mono fully regulated linear PSU will be totally awesome on this.  To those who doesn't know, the Sennheiser HDVD-820 is also using the same integrated headphone chip.


----------



## Mediahound

Whitigir said:


> Regardless, battery will still be an issue for longevity.  What do you do after 3-4 years ?



 Battery life is dependent upon two functions - the number of charge discharge cycles, and the sustaining voltage. If a Li-ion battery is not on a charge discharge cycle, and the sustaining voltage is low, then it will last for many years.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> Yup, a quad mono fully regulated linear PSU will be totally awesome on this.  To those who doesn't know, the Sennheiser HDVD-820 is also using the same integrated headphone chip.


And it is priced at 2.5k only.  However it is 9018S and not 4497eq


----------



## Whitigir

Mediahound said:


> Battery life is dependent upon two functions - the number of charge discharge cycles, and the sustaining voltage. If a Li-ion battery is not on a charge discharge cycle, and the sustaining voltage is low, then it will last for many years.


I was regarding the scenarios where Skye is wanting to use it as a Walkman,  it will see many charge and discharge


----------



## syke (Sep 11, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> I was regarding the scenarios where Skye is wanting to use it as a Walkman,  it will see many charge and discharge



Nope, I said *I will not* in my lifetime ever want to use this as a Walkman. If I ever decide purchase it, it will forever be bolted down onto a desk, where battery longevity will be less of an issue.


----------



## purk

syke said:


> Nope, I said *I will not* in my lifetime ever want to use this as a Walkman. If I ever decide purchase it, it will forever be bolted down onto a desk, where battery longevity will be less of an issue.


Do yourself a favor then and get something else instead.  For an 8k pricetag, you can have a top end electrostatic system for the same price.


----------



## bmichels

NehPets said:


> It'll be a shame if they haven't enabled analog and digital out via USB-C. I wonder whether anyone on the Walkman design team uses an Xperia phone?



Digital-out, yes I wish they will enable it but.... How can analog-out go through USB-C ?


----------



## syke

purk said:


> Do yourself a favor then and get something else instead.  For an 8k pricetag, you can have a top end electrostatic system for the same price.


That's why it is an "IF"... A big humongous "IF"


----------



## nanaholic

purk said:


> Do yourself a favor then and get something else instead.  For an 8k pricetag, you can have a top end electrostatic system for the same price.



Define a top end electrostatic system.
A Stax-009S is already 4600. Pair it with a "top end" electstat amp like a Blue Hawaii (which starts at 5999) and you've already blown the budget, and we haven't got a DAC yet.


----------



## purk

nanaholic said:


> Define a top end electrostatic system.
> A Stax-009S is already 4600. Pair it with a "top end" electstat amp like a Blue Hawaii (which starts at 5999) and you've already blown the budget, and we haven't got a DAC yet.



Have u ever heard of a KGSSHV or KGST? Those can be had for $3000 or less as is 90% KGSSHV Carbon and BHSE.  Buy a Yggy for $2.5k, and pick up a used SR009 for $2.5k.  Easily done at that price point. 

You can buy BHSE for $6k and Yggy and boom....your are at 8.5k and that $500 more than buying the Z1.

How about a KGSSHV Carbon for 4.6k and any $3.5k DAC and that's the same price as the Z1.

Do I need to go on?


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 11, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> Define a top end electrostatic system.
> A Stax-009S is already 4600. Pair it with a "top end" electstat amp like a Blue Hawaii (which starts at 5999) and you've already blown the budget, and we haven't got a DAC yet.



Look, KG-Amps can also be a DIY or purchase used.

1/ Grounded Grid is like a BHSE, just better IMO for practicality reasons, and the Grounded Grid can be purchased for $3,500.

2/ Stax Headphones is not included as the DMP-Z1 is not coming with any headphones or IEMS

3/ A Chord TT2 is around $4,500 or you can buy a used one for less than that.  You can also purchase those high-end China made DAC such as my LKS004 is $1.6K and or AudioGD for 2.7K.  These are all worthy of top tier performances

It is still within budgets ! Period

Or you want to count the headphones, the Z1R is $2k, the DMP-Z1 is 8k, you are around 10k

Grounded Grid + 009 + Yggy is Right there around 10k



syke said:


> Nope, I said *I will not* in my lifetime ever want to use this as a Walkman. If I ever decide purchase it, it will forever be bolted down onto a desk, where battery longevity will be less of an issue.



There is no reason why to buy a battery devices and to have it sit permanently on a desk.  Full blown desktop would be ways...ways...better


----------



## NehPets (Sep 11, 2018)

bmichels said:


> Digital-out, yes I wish they will enable it but.... How can analog-out go through USB-C ?


USB-C supports analog out via audio adapter accessory mode. It's what a number of phones that have dispensed with the 3.5 mm audio jack use.


----------



## Whitigir

The usb type C can in fact carry analog output


----------



## PCheung

NehPets said:


> USB-C supports analog out via audio adapter accessory mode. It's what a number of phones that have dispensed with the 3.5 mm audio jack use.



Don't they are using DAC chips inside the adaptor to do analog out? Like the Apple's audio adaptor


----------



## purk

PCheung said:


> Don't they are using DAC chips inside the adaptor to do analog out? Like the Apple's audio adaptor



Not sure, but adding an analog out from Z1 should be easy to do.  All they have to do is running another set of signal from the DAC analog output stage and route it to the rear panel.  Sony can easily use a female TRRRS for that.


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 12, 2018)

PCheung said:


> Don't they are using DAC chips inside the adaptor to do analog out? Like the Apple's audio adaptor


No, usb type C is fully capable of analog pin out, adaptors is only to take these pin out and allow external connection.  If the device had it implemented.  It can do both, analog out or digital out

https://www.quora.com/Do-USB-type-C-earphones-work-on-any-phone-with-a-type-C-port


----------



## PCheung

purk said:


> Not sure, but adding an analog out from Z1 should be easy to do.  All they have to do is running another set of signal from the DAC analog output stage and route it to the rear panel.  Sony can easily use a female TRRRS for that.





Whitigir said:


> No, usb type C is fully capable of analog pin out, adaptors is only to take these pin out and allow external connection.  If the device had it implemented.  It can do both, analog out or digital out
> 
> https://www.quora.com/Do-USB-type-C-earphones-work-on-any-phone-with-a-type-C-port



Thanks for reply! Don't know USB TYPE-C can do analog out
Although I do agree with purk that Sony should include a TRRRS for line out at the rear panel, the USB-C port seems not a good way to do pre-amp out


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 19, 2018)

I am fully curious about the DMP-Z1.  I used to own PHA-3, and that thing was another product that utilized ES9018S instead of Sony S-Master (zx2 generation).  Eventhough it wasn’t all that powerful, and more likely to cut cost, it was still running fairly warm and quickly depleting battery.

So, I wonder how hot the DMP-Z1 will do, and fair.  I have been thinking about it, and the more I think about it, the more I found out that these (PML-Films Capacitors and F-Resistors are *very expensive*), and the more capable they are for (power/capacity), the more expensive they are.  Now, when we take it a little further, these guys are *custom made by Sony engineering’s, and specially ordered* straight from the manufacturers.  Considering each of those components are $5-6....we are talking hundreds....and the cost are from there.  Pretty crazy stuff, there are not a single (common off the shelves resistors or capacitors MLCC, Tantalum in there, well maybe a few Tantalum),  ut look at those little resistors, they are F-resistors too! What in the world ..

*Now, bonuses*.  For those who was crying that DMP-Z1 has no linear power supply ? Hell, you have an option to use External-Linear-Powersupply in the OS.  You can choose to have it run on battery, on Main AC (Aka the input in the back 19.5V-DC).  So, just get yourself *your favorite PSU and you are gold!*


----------



## Whitigir

The only thing I am disappointed is that Sony is using TPA opamps.  Ibasso with Dx200Ti is using discrete amps with a $200 amp modules


----------



## Ryouta Sasaki

how using is it???
It is big too.


----------



## Ryouta Sasaki

I don't like sony's previous earphone.
But I expect now.It is very beautiful and  
feel the enthusiasm!


----------



## Ryouta Sasaki

Sorry…
I mistake thread.


----------



## monini13 (Sep 27, 2018)

​Hi everyone! for those in Singapore, Sony Singapore has warmly welcome us to a demo session at Wisma Atria on the 6th of October. You will also be able to interview two engineers who are behind the design of their new products. Those who are interested in going please DM me your name and email!


----------



## bmichels

monini13 said:


> Hi everyone! for those in Singapore, Sony Singapore has warmly welcome us to a demo session at Wisma Atria on the 6th of October. You will also be able to interview two engineers who are behind the design of their new products. Those who are interested in going please DM me your name and email!



Please, if you have a chance, could you ask them those questions:

- Will the USB-C allow Digital-out (to an external desktop DAC) and also Line-Out (to an external desktop AMP)
- Is there a chance to get one day a BlueTooth iPAD app to manage the playback/playlists (to compensate for the ridiculously small 3" screen) 

thanks in advance


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 30, 2018)

I seriously don’t know why Sony want and praise Nichicon Fine gold sound.

I don’t like fine gold, it has a lot off bass and bloom, lush mid, but yet veil up lower mid details and harsh lower trebles and also compromises in sound stage .  There are so many other capacitors to choose from, like Audio Note, Elna...well...whatever.  In fact, I pulled them out of my lks 004 and replaced with something else


----------



## Whitigir

Anyways, I do pray for the safety of Japan over Trami super Typhoon.  Please be well, everybody, everyone !


----------



## syke

Whitigir said:


> Anyways, I do pray for the safety of Japan over Trami super Typhoon.  Please be well, everybody, everyone !



Typhoons are terrible. Until you have experienced one yourself, you have no idea the destruction and delays to all the MDR-Z1R, IEM-Z1R pending to be shipped out.


----------



## purk

Sony have been using the nichicon Gold Tune and Fine Gold since the early 2000s.  My old Sony SCD-C333ES and SCD-777ES are full of that.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> Sony have been using the nichicon Gold Tune and Fine Gold since the early 2000s.  My old Sony SCD-C333ES and SCD-777ES are full of that.


They are old news for sure, but I don’t like it for a reason too .  I do like how the DMP is using the PML capacitors everywhere though, and that is something not everyone can do...especially when implementing Sigma-Delta architecture with powerful output


----------



## purk (Sep 30, 2018)

syke said:


> Typhoons are terrible. Until you have experienced one yourself, you have no idea the destruction and delays to all the MDR-Z1R, IEM-Z1R pending to be shipped out.



I sent my Qualia 010 to Sony Japan for a repair back in 2007ish  just before the tsunami hit and had to wait for them nearly a year afterward to get the headphones back.  Many times I had given the hope but fortantely, they did show up almost 10 months later.  Good luck to the people of Japan.


----------



## Sonyvores (Oct 7, 2018)

bmichels said:


> - Will the USB-C allow Digital-out (to an external desktop DAC) and also Line-Out (to an external desktop AMP)



You can have USB-C digital out. Compatibility can't be guarantied with all devices since we can't try them all but it worked with various DAC/Amp I tried.

No line out though


----------



## Whitigir

Sonyvores said:


> You can have USB-C digital out. Compatibility can't be guarantied with all devices since we can't try them all but it worked with various DAC/Amp I tried.
> 
> No line out though


I hope it sound so good that it blew dollars out of my pocket ?


----------



## bmichels

Sonyvores said:


> You can have USB-C digital out. Compatibility can't be guarantied with all devices since we can't try them all but it worked with various DAC/Amp I tried.
> 
> No line out though



thanks, this is good news  .  And about an iPAD app to manage the playback, and replace the small screen when at home, any hopes ?


----------



## Sonyvores

bmichels said:


> thanks, this is good news  .  And about an iPAD app to manage the playback, and replace the small screen when at home, any hopes ?



not that i know of


----------



## Uncle Monty

An app to control the player would be an excellent idea.


----------



## purk

Uncle Monty said:


> An app to control the player would be an excellent idea.


A better idea is to cut the price in half.


----------



## Redcarmoose

purk said:


> A better idea is to cut the price in half.


----------



## bmichels

purk said:


> A better idea is to cut the price in half.



and double the size of the LCD Screen...


----------



## Uncle Monty

purk said:


> A better idea is to cut the price in half.



Yes, that would be a good idea, but then it wouldn't sound so good.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Oct 12, 2018)

Sonyvores said:


> You can have USB-C digital out. Compatibility can't be guarantied with all devices since we can't try them all but it worked with various DAC/Amp I tried.



Confirmed to work very well with TA-ZH1es DAC/amp and it sounds amazing.



Uncle Monty said:


> Yes, that would be a good idea, but then it wouldn't sound so good.



I don't think the asking price of DMP-Z1 is out of line when you do the math on separates. A good quality DAC would cost $2K, another $2K for an amp + $2K for a good computer + $1k+ for cables to connect them all. That is almost the price of DMP-Z1.

I love the one box all-in-one solution of DMP. Because of that, the designer has total control over what comes out of the outputs to achieve the desired sound and it's ALL ABOUT the SOUND.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Nordost now makes a USB-C cable. I'll be using this in my review of DMP-Z1.


----------



## purk

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Nordost now makes a USB-C cable. I'll be using this in my review of DMP-Z1.


We want a true review okay not just an unboxing video?   Make it happens Mike....you can do it.  Don't forget to compare it to mid to high-end Woo amp/DAC too please.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Oct 13, 2018)

purk said:


> We want a true review okay not just an unboxing video?   Make it happens Mike....you can do it.  Don't forget to compare it to mid to high-end Woo amp/DAC too please.



I don't review Woo products on my YouTube channel because I work for the company. People may think I would be biased.


----------



## purk

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I don't review Woo products on my YouTube channel because I work for the company. People may think I would be biased.


Sure, but you can compare it to your other gears right?  For this price point the Sony should knock it out of the park against anything beside the Chord Dave and top end Stax system.


----------



## bmichels

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I don't review Woo products on my YouTube channel because I work for the company. People may think I would be biased.



OK; so can you compare it to Super TOL DAP like thre A&K SP1000


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> OK; so can you compare it to Super TOL DAP like thre A&K SP1000



What’s the point of comparing it to a TOTL DAP when the WM1Z should already be at the same level?  I think it is a more valid comparing thr Z1 to a high end desktop system given its price point.


----------



## raypin (Oct 13, 2018)

Mm..I d be far more interested in comparisons between the DMP Z1 and the new Chord Hugo TT 2 (with a suitable DAP as  transport).

1. They are transportable and battery-operated.
2. They are, more or less, in the same price category (to remove price bias).
3. Both are Totl/summit fi gear.

For headphones, start with hardest- to-drive like the HD 800, LCD 4 and the Hifiman Susvara.
Then end with very sensitive in-ear monitors.


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 13, 2018)

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Confirmed to work very well with TA-ZH1es DAC/amp and it sounds amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah..nvm, @purk and others has mentioned it enough.  I would love to see DMP-Z1 against desktop setup at $8.5k


----------



## bmichels

If the DMP-Z1 is as good as a TOL desktop source, then SONY really needs to develop an iPad app to pilot it’s playback when at home ! 

With such an App we will be able to justify the purchase by using the DMP-Z1 also as our home source. 

 Unfortunately SONY seems not to bother listening to user’s input !


----------



## Uncle Monty

Maybe compare how it sounds compared to...

WM1z

+

*Sony TA-ZH1ES amp ?*


----------



## Uncle Monty

bmichels said:


> If the DMP-Z1 is as good as a TOL desktop source, then SONY really needs to develop an iPad app to pilot it’s playback when at home !
> 
> With such an App we will be able to justify the purchase by using the DMP-Z1 also as our home source.
> 
> Unfortunately SONY seems not to bother listening to user’s input !



absolutely - you can't sit with this on your lap and it won't be very practical to pick it up to scroll through your sounds


----------



## Whitigir

Uncle Monty said:


> absolutely - you can't sit with this on your lap and it won't be very practical to pick it up to scroll through your sounds


You get a special back-pack for it.  You can request Louis-Vuitton to design it


----------



## purk (Oct 14, 2018)

Uncle Monty said:


> Maybe compare how it sounds compared to...
> 
> WM1z
> 
> ...


Sadly the very high end can get considerably much higher than that.  The 1A should be just as good as the digital transport as the 1A.


----------



## Uncle Monty

purk said:


> The 1A should be just as good as the digital transport than the 1A



eh?


----------



## purk

Uncle Monty said:


> eh?


meant to say just as good as a digital transport.


----------



## Uncle Monty

I'm lost.


----------



## Deftone

Uncle Monty said:


> I'm lost.



We all are mate, thats why we came to headfi, to find our way to endgame.


----------



## purk

The 1A should be about as good as the 1Z when it is being use as a digital transport feeding the ZH1ES.  What I was trying to say is using the 1Z as a digital transport is seriously overkilled and one can use the 1A or even the ZX300 in place of the 1Z and save the money.


----------



## purk

Deftone said:


> We all are mate, thats why we came to headfi, to find our way to endgame.


This isn't the place for it.  I have an Orpheus and DIY T2 system and I am still here.


----------



## Uncle Monty

When you add the 1Z and ZH1ES you're at around £4k. If the 1A works as well as the 1Z in this combo you're at £2.5k.

The DMP-Z1 will be what - £7k?


----------



## Whitigir

Uncle Monty said:


> When you add the 1Z and ZH1ES you're at around £4k. If the 1A works as well as the 1Z in this combo you're at £2.5k.
> 
> The DMP-Z1 will be what - £7k?



That seem like it ! @purk is correct about getting a WM1A or ZX300 for the Digital transport.  All 3 of them are very similar, and even if there are differences, it would be stretching it ways too far to justify the cost. No Walkman can replace a dedicatedly built Desktop, which can be had for $3k or 2$ depend on build.

Anyways, at the price of $8k, the DMP-Z1 shall be outperforming upper tier desktop systems .  I would be very interested to see how it will fair out in comparison


----------



## Uncle Monty

I'm intrigued.

Slightly off topic, has anyone tried using the Sony ZH1ES with an AK device as transport?


----------



## PCheung

Uncle Monty said:


> I'm intrigued.
> 
> Slightly off topic, has anyone tried using the Sony ZH1ES with an AK device as transport?


Tried at the store using an OTG cable connecting SP1000 with ZH1ES micro USB port
sometime it works and sometime don't
with AK380 works every time

seems the new OS system on SP1000 is not very stable


----------



## Uncle Monty

PCheung said:


> Tried at the store using an OTG cable connecting SP1000 with ZH1ES micro USB port
> sometime it works and sometime don't
> with AK380 works every time
> 
> seems the new OS system on SP1000 is not very stable



In your opinion, is there any benefit to using the ZH1ES with the AK380? Does it sound better?
Also, what OTG cable did you use?
(sorry for going off-topic with the DMP here)


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 15, 2018)

Uncle Monty said:


> In your opinion, is there any benefit to using the ZH1ES with the AK380? Does it sound better?
> Also, what OTG cable did you use?
> (sorry for going off-topic with the DMP here)



Just take this quote seriously


PCheung said:


> Tried at the store using an OTG cable connecting SP1000 with ZH1ES micro USB port
> sometime it works and sometime don't
> with AK380 works every time
> 
> seems the new OS system on SP1000 is not very stable



Good hardware is one thing, but bad software will trash them all.  Not to mention that it isn’t working correctly....we are talking about the proper Taps, filters, aliasing, interpolations....etc....etc...here.  This is another point why, if you were to have a desktop, just build yourself a dedicated PC

You probably already know that with DAP, Each different firmware slightly alternate it sound performances.  That is how severely the software can impact the device.


----------



## Uncle Monty

Fair enough. I only ask because some Headfiers connect their AK380s up to Chord Hugos and I could never understand why you would buy an expensive DAP only to use it as a transport. Moon Audio's website has a whole section extolling the virtues of using AKs with Hugos and HiFiM8s, selling all the interconnects. 

Anyway, back to the DMP-Z1.


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 15, 2018)

Uncle Monty said:


> Fair enough. I only ask because some Headfiers connect their AK380s up to Chord Hugos and I could never understand why you would buy an expensive DAP only to use it as a transport. Moon Audio's website has a whole section extolling the virtues of using AKs with Hugos and HiFiM8s, selling all the interconnects.
> 
> Anyway, back to the DMP-Z1.



The idea comes from expensive hardware build - better performances.  However, it does not always stand true, and especially for a DAP.

One example is clocking precisions and it floor noises.  Higher performances clocks has tighter tolerances, better stability, better aging, better noise floors but is also bigger and requires more power.  This makes any capable devices to be built around it, and many other components for dedicated devices.  Those could be super low noise at tightest tolerances and linearity as possible, and it won’t come in a form of a DAP...ever.  Therefore, any sound quality had to be gain from beefy hardware is true, but is stretching a penny for a thousand in cost, period.

For this reason alone, a dedicatedly full blown built PC or Server will be a much better choices....and then there is software on top of that.  PC has many good softwares and where as DAP, you will have to stick with the companies that made it

DMP-Z1 is 1/2 of everything, not even a full blown Source for digital out, not even a full blown amplifier, not even a full blown analog source for line-out, not even a full blown DAC.....and but it is full blown on price


----------



## Uncle Monty

From what you say, it will be interesting to see (hear) what differences / improvements the DMP-Z1 can bring (if any) compared to ZH1ES plus 1A/1Z transport. The DMP-Z1 seems to separate the transport / DAC from the Amp whereas the other way has the transport separate from the DAC / Amp.

Someone's going to tell me I'm wrong but I don't mind - it's all a great learning curve....


----------



## raypin (Oct 15, 2018)

Uncle Monty said:


> Fair enough. I only ask because some Headfiers connect their AK380s up to Chord Hugos and I could never understand why you would buy an expensive DAP only to use it as a transport. Moon Audio's website has a whole section extolling the virtues of using AKs with Hugos and HiFiM8s, selling all the interconnects.
> 
> Anyway, back to the DMP-Z1.



Mmm...when outside, I use my AK 380 cu as transport for Chord Hugo 2 for closed-back headphones. More power and better. But since I always  have 1 in-ear monitors at hand, the AK 380 cu is disconnected and used to power the in-ear monitors. Portable and better. So, as I see it, it is a question of having maximum flexibility when I am outside the house. Better and practical.

In short, it is having the option to use the right equipment for any occasion/scenario. I do not use the Hugo 2 or the AK 380 cu at home. For that, I have my desktop systems.


----------



## Whitigir

raypin said:


> Mmm...when outside, I use my AK 380 cu as transport for Chord Hugo 2 for closed-back headphones. More power and better. But since I always  have 1 in-ear monitors at hand, the AK 380 cu is disconnected and used to power the in-ear monitors. Portable and better. So, as I see it, it is a question of having maximum flexibility when I am outside the house. Better and practical.
> 
> In short, it is having the option to use the right equipment for any occasion/scenario. I do not use the Hugo 2 or the AK 380 cu at home. For that, I have my desktop systems.



My friend! I think DMP-Z1 was made to target specifically toward you , would you be getting one ?


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Oct 15, 2018)

wow! You guys are giving me too much credit. I don't have every piece of gear on the market. l wish I did.... lol

I hand carried DMP home from RMAF. TSA security did not question me at all.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Uncle Monty said:


> From what you say, it will be interesting to see (hear) what differences / improvements the DMP-Z1 can bring (if any) compared to ZH1ES plus 1A/1Z transport. The DMP-Z1 seems to separate the transport / DAC from the Amp whereas the other way has the transport separate from the DAC / Amp.
> 
> Someone's going to tell me I'm wrong but I don't mind - it's all a great learning curve....



I've done the comparison because I own these products. TA-ZH1es with Sony HAP-Z1es (via USB) beats using NW-WM1Z as transport. DMP-Z1 + HAP-Z1es doesn't beat DMP on its own.


----------



## purk

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I've done the comparison because I own these products. TA-ZH1es with Sony HAP-Z1es (via USB) beats using NW-WM1Z as transport. DMP-Z1 + HAP-Z1es doesn't beat DMP on its own.


Do you use a dedicated dock for the Walkman Z?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Whitigir said:


> My friend! I think DMP-Z1 was made to target specifically toward you , would you be getting one ?



Sony is more Boutique than they had already just become.


----------



## raypin (Oct 16, 2018)

duplicate post


----------



## raypin

Whitigir said:


> My friend! I think DMP-Z1 was made to target specifically toward you , would you be getting one ?




Mm...if I did, it would be not be pioneering for me. I did carry around my Chord Hugo TT partnered with my AK 240 (on my back-pack) a few years ago for out-of-home headphone listening. Great companion for extended out of town trips or when overseas. 

I ll audition the DMP Z1 January 2019 in HK and see (hear) if it is indeed Sony’s greatest.


----------



## purk

Redcarmoose said:


> Sony is more Boutique than they had already just become.



I like the old ES days in the late 80's and early 90's.  Superbly highly engineer products for a good price. They really pushed the enveloped back in the day.  Now they are just pushing the price envelope.  Well the Z1 is to me anyway.


----------



## Redcarmoose

purk said:


> I like the old ES days in the late 80's and early 90's.  Superbly highly engineer products for a good price. They really pushed the enveloped back in the day.  Now they are just pushing the price envelope.  Well the Z1 is to me anyway.



 Back then I never had enough money to discover all the Sony stuff. But of what little I had or friends had, was truly amazing. Kind of imaginative stuff that was functional and from technology from another world. Small TVs, small cassette players the size of a cassette. It was fun and different.


----------



## raypin

Mm...Sony is still Sony. The DMPZ1, Z1R and the WM1Z are not, repeat not, representative of Sony’s product portfolio. A cursory look at their website shows that Sony manufactures and sells products for the mass market, with mass market pricing. Headphones as low as US 39.95 and in-ears as low as US 9.99. There are tons of choices that caters to everyone’s budget. So, I don’t understand the b...... about prices.


----------



## purk

raypin said:


> Mm...Sony is still Sony. The DMPZ1, Z1R and the WM1Z are not, repeat not, representative of Sony’s product portfolio. A cursory look at their website shows that Sony manufactures and sells products for the mass market, with mass market pricing. Headphones as low as US 39.95 and in-ears as low as US 9.99. There are tons of choices that caters to everyone’s budget. So, I don’t understand the b...... about prices.



Sony ES was about a highend and high performing products at a reasonable price.  Tell me what cost more to make between the old Sony SCD-1 at $5k and the Z1 at $8.4k  The Z1 is more or less a lifestyle product hence I brought up the old ES philosophy.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Oct 16, 2018)

I still have my SCD-1 and it still works flawlessly. DMP-Z1 sounds a whole lot better. SCD-1 in today's money is $7,477.46 and it doesn't have HP amp.


----------



## raypin (Oct 16, 2018)

Mm...i am not going to answer that question because only Sony knows that answer. Anything else would be purely speculative. Look. I am a firm believer in the invisible hand. Sony, like any other corporation, can price it a gazillion dollars. Pricing it at that level is one thing. But at the end of the day, it is the consumer who will determine what the right price is. At 8.4K, I don’t think the Z1 will sell in large numbers (perhaps a few hundred units worldwide). I see the DMP Z1 as the best DAP/all-in-one/walkman for giant people that Sony engineering can produce.

Whether charging 8.4k is reasonable or not is up to the individual buyer. Are you a high net worth individual? Do you need or want the DMP Z1? How badly do you need or want it? Do you think the DMP Z1 delivers on its promise? Do you think it offers better value than competing products? Is it a superior product?  There are as many answers as there are people looking at the DMP Z1.

So, debates about the price of the Z1 is useless.

The beauty of the invisible hand is we each have one vote only.


----------



## purk

@raypin,
You answered that question for me as I am not a targeting buyer.  My point was that Sony actually deviates from the ES philosophy and that's just it. 


@HiFiGuy528 ,

The SCD-1 was used as example as it was transcendent product at its time of release....so no need to compare the performance of the Z1 to it.


----------



## Rob49

I'd love one.....but the pricing is crazy really.....is it going to sound x3 better than the TA-ZH1ES ?? ( You would expect it to be better....but by how much ?? ) Time will tell.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 16, 2018)

Rob49 said:


> I'd love one.....but the pricing is crazy really.....is it going to sound x3 better than the TA-ZH1ES ?? ( You would expect it to be better....but by how much ?? ) Time will tell.


The TA-ZH1ES is designed by the regular Sony amp team, where the DMP-Z1 is designed by the Walkman team. Obviously we will get reports on the comparable sound by those who own both. But it’s safe to say with the laws of diminishing returns in audio; it will be a small margin better.

If that small difference is worth the price of admission; becomes a subjective question. But as a rule, folks that want that slight difference find the difference important and of value. The way the human mind works, the difference ends up being something that you could focus on and perception could change with the % being perceived as larger. Some of the value would of course depend on sound signature goals and headphones or IEMs used and the synergy between the DMP-Z1 and other used equipment.

But in many ways this is a statement product. It’s a signpost which highlights a cause. The cause is the art form of better audio and the statement that the company has the design savvy and intent to produce such a product. For the few who find it something they can and want to own it will represent a baseline, possibility a new baseline in personal audio.


----------



## Rob49

Redcarmoose said:


> The TA-ZH1ES is designed by the regular Sony amp team, where the DMP-Z1 is designed by the Walkman team. Obviously we will get reports on the comparable sound by those who own both. But it’s safe to say with the laws of diminishing returns in audio; it will be a small margin better.
> 
> If that small difference is worth the price of admission; becomes a subjective question. But as a rule, folks that want that slight difference find the difference important and of value. The way the human mind works, the difference ends up being something that you could focus on and perception could change with the % being perceived as larger. Some of the value would of course depend on sound signature goals and headphones or IEMs used and the synergy between the DMP-Z1 and other used equipment.
> 
> But in many ways this is a statement product. It’s a signpost which highlights a cause. The cause is the art form of better audio and the statement that the company has the design savvy and intent to produce such a product. For the few who find it something they can and want to own it will represent a baseline, possibility a new baseline in personal audio.



I agree with what you say & would hope that it will be "a new baseline". It's just that i think it's going to be out of reach, financially, for many ? Thankful though, that Sony make great products. As you say this is  a / their "statement".


----------



## purk

Perhaps...a reborn of an R-Series.....Renaissance..like the  R10 or TA-E1R.  Doubt that...not with the TPA6120 A2 chip anyway.


----------



## unknownguardian

Japan side had just announced this DMP-Z1 is expected to release on 8 December with price of 923,400 yen

http://e-earphone.blog/?p=1289930


----------



## raypin

Mm....3 times better because it is 3 times more expensive?? Just how do you objectively determine that the Z1 is 3 times better than the TA? It is just not possible. If that is your criterea, and you are perfectly entitled to it, you will end up buying nothing. Over the years, I have read my fair share of reviews from well-respected reviewers in this hobby and, to the best of my recollection, not one holds such an impossibly high standard in recommending or not recommending a headphone, based on a purely linear price to performance ratio. It just does not work that way.

In a perfect market, where each market participant is equipped with the exact, measurable standard and where each market participant values the same standard in the same manner, will your standard work? Look at the stock market, where investors are looking at the same exact numbers and yet they arrive at different conclusions and bet accordingly. Even with an objective-based (measurable) standard,  opinions diverges. There is no such thing as a perfect market.

How much more in the headphone world, where subjective judgments are the best that we can do. Even with headphone measurements, there is no clear consensus as to which headphone is better because it captures only one variable: frequency response. What about the other equally important variables? Soundstage? Musicality? Emotional connection with music being played? Perceptions about the brand? Are those measurable? 

What I m saying is it is not linear. It is subjective. Even the point of diminishing returns is ultimately meaningless. That economic concept is badly misused and wrongly applied in this hobby because this economic theory posits that all variables are measurable and it Is just a question of applying the formula to determine at which point where incremental increase in input yields negative outcomes. It is mathematically precise and not subject to interpretation. There is no room for subjective judgments.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 17, 2018)

I have the money to buy one, but I don’t like the thought of having to look down on that little screen. I also don’t like the thought of the batteries wearing out. So whatever it sounds like, it’s simply too much money and not set up the way I would want something. Of course many audiophiles would walk a mile in the snow to get sonic improvements, I guess I’m not that audiophile.

If one poped-up for sale in the used section for $2600, I’d want it though.


----------



## Rob49

Redcarmoose said:


> I also don’t like the thought of the batteries wearing out.



What happens when it does ? Is it then defunct, or can you get battery replacement & at what cost ? For the price, i'd expect it to last a lifetime. I guess the best thing to do is constantly use the mains & not / rarely run on battery alone ?


----------



## purk

Redcarmoose said:


> I have the money to buy one, but I don’t like the thought of having to look down on that little screen. I also don’t like the thought of the batteries wearing out. So whatever it sounds like, it’s simply too much money and not set up the way I would want something. Of course many audiophiles would walk a mile in the snow to get sonic improvements, I guess I’m not that audiophile.
> 
> If one poped-up for sale in the used section for $2600, I’d want it though.



Share similar thought here but I am more concerned about the integrated TPA headphone amp chips than anything else.  They had to shortchange some where to keep the footprint small and they sure did it here.  I will probably buy one at $4.5k though.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 17, 2018)

Rob49 said:


> What happens when it does ? Is it then defunct, or can you get battery replacement & at what cost ? For the price, i'd expect it to last a lifetime. I guess the best thing to do is constantly use the mains & not / rarely run on battery alone ?



It’s probably not a big deal, you just maybe get a back-up set and one day when you notice your battery life is less you simply plug in the new batteries. The point is that it gets really clean power with no need for filters. I still use an IPhone 4(2010) and the battery still works?


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 17, 2018)

Redcarmoose said:


> I have the money to buy one, but I don’t like the thought of having to look down on that little screen. I also don’t like the thought of the batteries wearing out. So whatever it sounds like, it’s simply too much money and not set up the way I would want something. Of course many audiophiles would walk a mile in the snow to get sonic improvements, I guess I’m not that audiophile.
> 
> If one poped-up for sale in the used section for $2600, I’d want it though.



I totally agreed with you.  The battery look to be user replaceable as it is plug-in.  But that doesn’t make it any easier to remove the chassis and the volume knob with the headphone socket washers...etc...will still be a Pain to replace battery yourself.

Eventhough when the battery is 1/2 of it life capability, which is probably 4-5 years from now.  You then can just use an external Linear Power Supply to feed it....but that doesn’t make it any more appealing either.

I still don’t understand why it is just 1/2 functional and features of everything together ...lol.  Especially the amp.  Sony has all the space inside to pull a discrete balanced Amp out.


purk said:


> Share similar thought here but I am more concerned about the integrated TPA headphone amp chips than anything else.  They had to shortchange some where to keep the footprint small and they sure did it here.  I will probably buy one at $4.5k though.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Whitigir said:


> I totally agreed with you.  The battery look to be user replaceable as it is plug-in.  But that doesn’t make it any easier to remove the chassis and the volume knob with the headphone socket washers...etc...will still be a Pain to replace battery yourself.
> 
> Eventhough when the battery is 1/2 of it life capability, which is probably 4-5 years from now.  You then can just use an external Linear Power Supply to feed it....but that doesn’t make it any more appealing either.
> 
> I still don’t understand why it is just 1/2 functional and features of everything together ...lol.  Especially the amp.  Sony has all the space inside to pull a discrete balanced Amp out.



Remember those race cars with aluminum seats, no A/C and hard shocks? Pure performance; it’s that.


----------



## Whitigir

Redcarmoose said:


> Remember those race cars with aluminum seats, no A/C and hard shocks? Pure performance; it’s that.


That is fine, if the power output was totally built and decked out.  This here, Z1 is 1/2 decked out 

For example, AKM4497Eq is capable of DSD512 and here it is 256 only.  The amp isn’t that powerful, I wonder if it could even drive some of those Planar at all


----------



## jasonho




----------



## purk

jasonho said:


>


Thought it isn't released yet?  Review samples?  Love to hear your impression.


----------



## emrelights1973

purk said:


> I like the old ES days in the late 80's and early 90's.  Superbly highly engineer products for a good price. They really pushed the enveloped back in the day.  Now they are just pushing the price envelope.  Well the Z1 is to me anyway.


In a day of 2000$ iem cables it is normal that they push and push


----------



## raypin (Oct 20, 2018)

Mmm..finally, a DMP Z1 out in the wild. Looking forward to your impressions! So, we can finally end discussions of topology and reminiscenses of the good ol’ days of Sony and terminate debates about prices (yes, everyone knows that it is sky-high)....and focus on the most important aspect: sound.

To paraphrase the Bill Clinton election battle cry.....it’s the sound, stupid!


----------



## purk (Oct 21, 2018)

raypin said:


> Mmm..finally, a DMP Z1 out in the wild. Looking forward to your impressions! So, we can finally end discussions of topology and reminiscenses of the good ol’ days of Sony and terminate debates about prices (yes, everyone knows that it is sky-high)....and focus on the most important aspect: sound.
> 
> To paraphrase the Bill Clinton election battle cry.....it’s the sound, stupid!



Obviously that it is all about, hence why we are all chasing that magical unicorn...

Speaking of going semi-transportable with highend gears, I can accomplish the same with a whole lot less bling and style. I now use ZX300 as a digital transport feeding the SRM-D10 to power the Stax SR009 and run the headphones output from my Sony NW-WM1Z into my SuSy Dynalo Mini and power the HD800.  With a really good pure sine wave Li-on power generator, it is now possible to operate a really good dynamic amplifier off from external battery pack with an excellent result.  Not going to impress any hotties obviously...


----------



## raypin (Oct 27, 2018)

Mm...in my country just arrived, demo unit. Scheduling audition wth the best in-ears and headphones in my collection (and the dealer’s). So happy right now.






Will spend several hours pairing this with the HD 820, RE 2000, 64 Tia Fourte, Noble Katana, Zeus XIV ciem, Asen 8 ciem, Focal Utopia, HE 1000 v.2, ...and, just for the heck of it, the Susvara.

The dealer also has the Chord TT2 and M Scaler on hand.


----------



## buzzlulu

purk said:


> Obviously that it is all about, hence why we are all chasing that magical unicorn...
> 
> Speaking of going semi-transportable with highend gears, I can accomplish the same with a whole lot less bling and style. I now use ZX300 as a digital transport feeding the SRM-D10 to power the Stax SR009 and run the headphones output from my Sony NW-WM1Z into my SuSy Dynalo Mini and power the HD800.  With a really good pure sine wave Li-on power generator, it is now possible to operate a really good dynamic amplifier off from external battery pack with an excellent result.  Not going to impress any hotties obviously...



Which cable are you using from the 1Z out to the Dynalo?  Running single ended or balanced out from the Z?  terminated in RCA's into the Dynalo I assume?
Have you tried the 1Z out to the SRM-D10?  Same cable as above?

Curious to know how the SRM-D10 compares to the 353?

Thanks


----------



## raypin (Oct 27, 2018)

Mm...whee! Likee likee!


----------



## Deftone

@raypin i find it amusing that you’re really happy about trying out the DMPZ1 even though you have Sennheiser HE1 + chord Dave , blu 2.


----------



## Sp12er3 (Oct 27, 2018)

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Confirmed to work very well with TA-ZH1es DAC/amp and it sounds amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can hear the sarcasm hidden in the honest support there~ but well still agree. It's a niche product that'd sell in veeeery low quantity, just let the ones that likes it buy it.
Must say tho, that packaging is real nice for a big DAP, Tho why does it says "Tentative" on the box there?


----------



## bmichels

@raypin I am really looking forward reading your listening impressions, expecially your comparaison with your existing desktop Source/DAC.


----------



## raypin (Oct 27, 2018)

Mm...yup. Will post. I haven’t been this excited since I took delivery of my HE 1.

Re: not sure about the Tentative marking on the box. Will ask.


----------



## raypin

Deftone said:


> @raypin i find it amusing that you’re really happy about trying out the DMPZ1 even though you have Sennheiser HE1 + chord Dave , blu 2.



Mm.....it is part of my plan. I did post in another thread that I am questing for the ultimate in-ear system, the “HE 1” of the in-ear world. I am done with headphones. It is in-ears that I am focused at. The DMP is a worthy source to consider, with the in-ear coming next.


----------



## PJBrownSkin

raypin said:


> Mm...whee! Likee likee!



Nice! Might pay a visit to audition


----------



## Deftone

Tentative can’t be the right word, doesn’t it mean like lacking confidence? Why would Sony put that on the box...


----------



## Sp12er3 (Oct 27, 2018)

purk said:


> I like the old ES days in the late 80's and early 90's.  Superbly highly engineer products for a good price. They really pushed the enveloped back in the day.  Now they are just pushing the price envelope.  Well the Z1 is to me anyway.


Edit: I read on after posting and it seems a couple people already mentioned what I want to say, so anyone can just skip reading whats below this. (I'm glad price debate is stopping) 

"Again, the DMP-Z1 is a Walkman model, not of the ES (Elevated Standard) Sony of old, that line's newest is still the TA-ZH1ES, which is the line's very first dedicated headphone dac/ amp. Really I don't think you should look at the DMP-Z1 with that spectacle permanently in front of your eyes.

This DMP-Z1 is an anomaly made by the Walkman team, taking the out of the norm, "no cost" approach they did for the WM1Z and explode it even more to include the "no weight and size limit" to create the best sounding transportable player they can.

Well, at least that's how I see it. Japanese can be veery weirdly specific on the nerdiest of things."


----------



## Uncle Monty

raypin said:


> Mm...in my country just arrived, demo unit. Scheduling audition wth the best in-ears and headphones in my collection (and the dealer’s). So happy right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very  interested as I'm caught between this and TT2 + MScaler - which way to go??


----------



## Redcarmoose

raypin said:


> Mm...yup. Will post. I haven’t been this excited since I took delivery of my HE 1.
> 
> Re: not sure about the Tentative marking on the box. Will ask.



Final Packaging contains dolly.


----------



## raypin

Mm..ah....no. Deluxe delivery by Sony:


----------



## purk

@raypin 
Looking forward to hear your impression man.  We may disagree on the price aspect of it but I am curious as always on sound.


----------



## Rob49

Sp12er3 said:


> Tho why does it says "Tentative" on the box there?



I'd be "tentative", to pay £8.000 !!!


----------



## Henry Hua

Great


----------



## raypin

Mm...According to the dealer, the tentative means it is a demo unit. My take is since this is a Japanese product, something got lost in translation. Probably just an oversight. I hope the demo unit is not tentative, meaning a pre-production unit


----------



## NehPets

Doesn't "tentative" refer to the design of the packaging? Maybe they intend to make the cardboard more shiny ...


----------



## Whitigir

I would be surprised if it sound even better than HE-1 0_0, heck...even if it is close like 90% it would be a steal


----------



## HiFiGuy528

@jasonho


----------



## raypin (Nov 1, 2018)

Mm...listened and auditioned the DMP Z1 for a little over 3 hours straight (or from 72% battery life to 30%). These are my initial impressions re: sound:

1. It easily destroyed my A&K 380 cu and the dealer’s demo A&Ultimate SP 1000 M specially with headphones.

2. The performance in driving headphones is tantalizingly close to the Chord DAVE. It is that good. Unfortunately, I did not bring my DAVE to do a proper a/b but I know what the DAVE is capable of doing.

3. The sound is extremely and transparently clear. It easily resolves complex passages. I would describe the sound as reference quality. No nasty surprises. But the greatest strength of this DAP/DAC/Headphone amplifier is its ability to connect you to your music. Instrument separation is good to excellent (sorry but not up to the level of my HE1).

4. The bass is yummy. Layered, clear and punchy.

Headphones used: Focal Utopia (single-ended), Sennheiser HD 820  (single-ended), Beyerdynamic T1 first-gen (single-ended) and the Sony Z1R (balanced, 4.4 mm). Stellar performance out of the Focal and the Z1R (unsurprisingly since both are Sony products).

In-ears used: 64 TIA Fourte, Noble Katana, Empire Ears Legend X, JHA Layla 1.

The in-ears scaled well but not to the extent of the headphones. Balanced output is superior to single-ended (better dynamic range) so any prospective owner are advised to terminate headphone with the 4.4 mm. to maximize performance out of the DMP Z1.

About the UI, it was blazingly fast and easy to navigate. As an owner of the WM1A DAP, the UI is extremely familiar. It took me 1 minute to master it. Very responsive/nearly zero lag. Curious operation: when you switch power source from the menu (from AC to DC), the DMP displays a message for you to dial down the gorgeous golden knob to zero (mandatory). Same with engaging the DSEE DSP. Safety feature? Knob begins at the 8 o’clock position and terminates at the 5 o’clock position. The Utopia was at 12, Z1R at 10 (because it was balanced 4.4 mm), the Beyer T1 at 2:30, the HD 820 at 1:00 (these settings = my normal listening volume).

I asked the dealer if I should try the Susvara. He laughed hard,  so I nixed the idea. Not enough power out of the DMP. Instead, I tried the Susvara on another system. What! I was floored by what I heard. Simply amazing sound output. 6K worth? Have to listen to it more.

Is the DMP Z1 a worthy, TOTL reference-class desktop machine? Yes. Very much yes. Is the DMP Z1 a viable on-the-go TOTL machine? Yes but you need a backpack to carry it around. For me, sure, it is viable.

For me, it is the best “DAP” right now, much closer to totl desktop machines, with an undeniable advantage: you can bring it anywhere.

About the price? It is very pricey but if you consider the amount of equipment that it can replace (separate DAP/separate DAC, separate headphone amp, power conditioners, power cables, etc.), the price is not that bad.

Audition is highly recommended...and then decide if you are willing to invest the big bucks.

Will I be buying? What do you think? Lol!

P.S. I missed the Chord TT2 by a day. It was snapped up by a buyer. Would have been an interesting comparison.


----------



## Whitigir

Thanks for the impression, and no...DMP-Z1 is not a DAP, ofcourse it would wreck the ak380.  You should just compare it to Chord TT, or did it / should it really wreck your DAVE ?  If it does wreck the DAVE, then it is a good buy.


----------



## Mediahound

Whitigir said:


> and no...DMP-Z1 is not a DAP.



Incorrect. It has what is basically a Sony WM1Z Walkman built in to it.


----------



## Whitigir

Mediahound said:


> Incorrect. It has what is basically a Sony WM1Z Walkman built in to it.



It is not portable, so it is not a DAP.  It is a DMP (Digital Media Player), that is Transportable and clarified by Sony Engineers to be *Carriable
*
A DAP would be WM-1Z or AK380


----------



## Mediahound

Whitigir said:


> It is not portable, so it is not a DAP.  It is a DMP (Digital Media Player), that is Transportable and clarified by Sony Engineers to be *Carriable
> *
> A DAP would be WM-1Z or AK380



Still, it does have a digital player inside so it's not like it's JUST a DAC as you imply.


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 1, 2018)

Mediahound said:


> Still, it does have a digital player inside so it's not like it's JUST a DAC as you imply.


I never said it is just a DAC.  I meant it is more than a DAP, so ofcourse it would wreck a DAP.  It is no comparison as there is 0 ways to fit in RK50 inside a DAP, let alone other components.  If you want to make it fair, compare it to something of it caliber and level, Hugo TT2 and AK380 / sp1000 for example...similar purposes, technology and price point.

To say DMP-Z1 is wrecking AK380 is heavily underestimating the DMP-Z1...heck, WM1Z shall be waged against SP1000 and not AK380

Comparing DMP1Z to AK380 is like Comparing an IPhone to AK380, kind of comparison.  Totally different purposes, performances, tiers, technology ...etc..


----------



## Mediahound

Whitigir said:


> I never said it is just a DAC.  I meant it is more than a DAP, so ofcourse it would wreck a DAP.  It is no comparison as there is 0 ways to fit in RK50 inside a DAP, let alone other components.  If you want to make it fair, compare it to something of it caliber and level, Hugo TT2 and AK380 / sp1000 for example...similar purposes, technology and price point.
> 
> To say DMP-Z1 is wrecking AK380 is heavily underestimating the DMP-Z1...heck, WM1Z shall be waged against SP1000 and not AK380
> 
> Comparing DMP1Z to AK380 is like Comparing an IPhone to AK380, kind of comparison.  Totally different purposes, performances, tiers, technology ...etc..



I see. I do wonder how the DAC section compares to Chord DACs.


----------



## purk

Mediahound said:


> I see. I do wonder how the DAC section compares to Chord DACs.


Sadly you will not be able to do that.  Sony should have placed a line level out to be used as a DAC but they decided not to.  A single female 4.4 TRRRS jack is all it take including wiring.


----------



## Mediahound

purk said:


> Sadly you will not be able to do that.  Sony should have placed a line level out to be used as a DAC but they decided not to.  A single female 4.4 TRRRS jack is all it take including wiring.



Yeah, when I found out it has no preamp outs, I pretty much lost interest. A 'desktop' device should have that.


----------



## purk

Mediahound said:


> Yeah, when I found out it has no preamp outs, I pretty much lost interest. A 'desktop' device should have that.



Agreed, if this has a line out I will probably get one given that the limiting factor is still an amplification stage.  Same applies to the Dave.  Still if you don't want to mix and match components this could be an easy path to a really great sound according to @raypin.  Head-fiers with a very limiting living space will likely be that candidate.


----------



## bmichels

raypin said:


> Mm...listened and auditioned the DMP Z1 for a little over 3 hours straight (or from 72% battery life to 30%). These are my initial impressions re: sound:
> 
> 1. It easily destroyed my A&K 380 cu and the dealer’s demo A&Ultimate SP 1000 M specially with headphones.
> 
> ...



Great report ! Very very interesting. Thanks Raypin for this.

The reported super good sonic performance make it even more a shame that Sony did not bother including a Line-out and a Big screen (or an iPad app) so that the DMP-Z1 could also be used as a desktop source.   

As it is, the DMP-Z1 really can NOT be used as a desktop source, and because of this I totally lost interest in it, I cannot justify it's purchase  ONLY for use on-the-Go.


----------



## Rob49

raypin said:


> Mm...listened and auditioned the DMP Z1 for a little over 3 hours straight (or from 72% battery life to 30%). These are my initial impressions re: sound:
> 
> 1. It easily destroyed my A&K 380 cu and the dealer’s demo A&Ultimate SP 1000 M specially with headphones.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for the impressions. ( Lucky you ! )

I wonder how this compares to the Sony TA-ZH1ES ? How much better ??


----------



## raypin (Nov 1, 2018)

Mm...typical headphone cable lenght is 1.4 or so meters. Meaning, the DMP Z can be used as a source for headphones. Most of my headphone cables, including customized, are of that length. Meaning, the lack of a remote app or a smartphone app is not a limiting factor. At least in my case. Since it is carriable, you actually have more freedom to move around your house to listen to your headphones. You are not bound to a single location in your house. Frankly, it did not bother me a bit. It would be more ideal to use a smartphone to control the operations of the DMP. It is what it is. By the way, the DMP stayed cool during my audition.

As for the line-out, yes it would make the DMP more flexible (by matching it with another amp) but I feel that the closed nature of the DMP is a key selling point. It was never lacking in terms of properly driving the headphones that I used. I never felt that I needed or wanted to add another equipment to the audio chain. It is the DMP and your headphone or in-ears. No need to add anything else.


The tracks that I listened to were already stored in the device storage. Fortunately, most of the tracks are very familiar. Focal JM  Labs reference tracks, albums 1 to 8, Dean Martin, Jason Mraz etc.


----------



## raypin

Rob49 said:


> Thanks so much for the impressions. ( Lucky you ! )
> 
> I wonder how this compares to the Sony TA-ZH1ES ? How much better ??



Mm...I ll do another round of listening once the TA ZH becomes available.


----------



## bmichels

I do not want to troll, I know I posted this already, but again here is my IDEAL DMP-Z1.


----------



## Mediahound

bmichels said:


> I do not want to troll, I know I posted this already, but again here is my IDEAL DMP-Z1.



The touchscreen angle issue could be helped if Sony came out with an angled stand for it.


----------



## raypin (Nov 1, 2018)

Mm..only photo I took. Took it as an afterthought. 

In person, the giant walkman is beautiful. Flawless build. The glass, though, is a fingerprint-magnet. The oleophobic coating was totally lacking.


----------



## Deftone

Can they really twist and bend a off the shelf part so much that it becomes "tantalizingly close to the Chord DAVE" ??

I thought Rob Watts made his own DACs because of the limitations of these chips, if the AKM4490s can work this well then why go to all the effort of designing your own FPGA? or is just really that much of a  real world small difference that they sound close no matter whats going on and placebo? Hmmm head scratcher.


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 2, 2018)

Human is not Bat for sure.  You can call it preferences.  Many people do prefer new toys and expensive toys to older and or cheaper toys.  It is called new toys syndrome, and to compliment this syndrome, there are honeymoon syndrome, and upgradatis syndrome .  Some people just stick to the Brands that they love, and very little would stick to their confidence and personal preferences alone

What amazes me is how the TPA integrated amp chip is 128db specifications, and Sony could implement and brought out it max specifications.  I am unable to get any clarification regarding the 128db as marketed by the TPA paper specs or by real world measurements of the Z1


----------



## Deftone

I understand, ive decided to step back myself and learn to appreciate what i already have, this spending can go on and on and on. Im curious to see how many others than raypin will actually be willing to buy this.


----------



## raypin

Mm..depends on what you are trying to achieve in this hobby. My goals are very clear to me: to own and enjoy the very best that this hobby can offer. Priority is sound, sound and sound. Cost is secondary to me. I started very late in this hobby and I figure I still have 5 to 7 years to enjoy the finest in this hobby before my sense of hearing is so compromised that it doesn ‘t matter anymore. I am no longer going for the biggest bang for the buck. It is only money. I can’t take it with me to my grave.

Yes, I am buying this. What does it replace? All of my present DAPs and future DAP purchases. Upgrades done in one fell swoop. I seriously doubt that Astell & Kern can equal the DMPZ1 for many, many years to come. It can drive all of my headphones and in-ears, to the edge of its potential. 


I came to that same conclusion when I made the decision to buy the HE 1. Prior to that, I kept on adding this headphone and that headphone to my collection, to achieve my goal. There’s always something missing. I decided to terminate the search and just go for the very best. Upgrades done in one fell swoop. 

I like making decisive decisions.


----------



## Rob49

raypin said:


> Yes, I am buying this. What does it replace? All of my present DAPs and future DAP purchases.



Unlike a DAP, you can't put it in your jeans pocket & go for a stroll, listening to your music. Sony have placed this in their "Walkman" line.....when you could hardly "walk" with it !


----------



## Uncle Monty

I have never / would never take my AK player out of the house - it's too expensive - I'd use my old iPod for that. So what's the point in having 'portable' if I don't take it anywhere? The DMP-Z1 makes sense for home-use - it's only one box and doesn't take up much space. No cables going everywhere and you don't have to be within 2m of a power socket. You can put it away safely when the grandkids visit or when you're looking after your neighbour's mad dog. Plus, you won't have to worry about upgrading for a long time. I'm very tempted by the DMP, except I think I might go down the Chord route which I'll admit is not as neat and tidy.


----------



## raypin

Mm...different folks, different strokes. I do take out, on a regular basis, my AK 380 cu plus cu amp, in-ear (Zeus XIV or Tia Fourte or ____), Chord Hugo 2 (in lieu of the cu amp), a headphone (current favorite HD 820), plus 1 or 2 headphone and in-ear cable. Total: about usd10k plus minus. Carrier: Backpack. 

I purchased those so I can use them when and where I want. What’s the point if you have good quality gear and keep it at home? It will just gather dust. 

It is just a bunch of things, meant to be used. 

I do miss my iPod Classic. Unrepairable.


----------



## Whitigir

Considering in Japan, men already carry around bag and purses.  It makes sense to have own DMP-Z1 and carry it inside the pocket.  

To say that 1Z can drive most of in ears and headphones to it potentials, that is a little bit too biased based on the new product, new tech, new price.  The TPA inside the 1Z merely have 1200mW per channel for a 16Ohms Load.  It can not do DSD512, it can not act as a line out source.  It is just a half way there kind of product.

Anyways, I look forward to your personal impressions next to your Dave and He-1


----------



## purk (Nov 2, 2018)

@raypin,

Different strokes for different folks indeed.  You are a person of more means than some of us here, so you can easily justify the DMP-Z1 purchase.  To many of us, the DMP-Z1 is overpriced hence most are complaining about the lack of features and wanting more.  I have the 1Z and I don't go walk around with it due to that crazy price tag and the sheer weight.  I also like to baby my stuff so a thought of dropping or scratching the DMP-Z1 while taking it out of the protective suitcase will preventing me to bring it to any where else beside from home to work.  If the Z1 ever get down to $4 to $5K and I believe it will, I will probably buy it because I'm one of Sony's biggest fan.  I still have plenty of doubts about the sound quality of the DMP however.


----------



## raypin (Nov 2, 2018)

Mm...sure. If you look at the Focal Utopia, it used to be 4k usd. Now, some retailers are selling it for 3k (I think it is part of a trade-in program). I paid the early adopter’s tax. Do I regret the decision? Heck no. I ve been enjoying the Utopia since launch (2016). Two year’s worth of enjoyment and worth every penny. Why? Time is gold.

Am I a person of extraordinary means? Not really. You should see how I dress. Lol!

Do audition the Z1 when the opportunity arises. Ignore the price tag and just enjoy it. Products like the Z1 are rare.

The weight is manageable. The typical laptop weighs 2.3 kgs. This thing is just 1.5 kgs. If you can carry a laptop...................Just chuck it in a backpack to carry. Take it out to enjoy Sony’s magic anywhere, anytime. So, why is the weight even an issue?

Life is too short. Enjoy it to the fullest.


----------



## purk (Nov 2, 2018)

I enjoy your posts @ raypin and you are entitled to all of your enjoyment from those fine gears.  Just understand some of us can only dream about Z1 and have different priority.  I can afford it, just definitely not my priority right now.  I hope time is still on your and my side .  My transportable rig now is the Wm1Z into SRM-D10 and SR009 and immensely satisfied.  Thought about getting the Stax to HE90 adapter so I can use it with my D10, but decided not too due to the fragile nature of the HE90.


----------



## Deftone

if I could afford a WM1Z or DMPZ1 I wouldn’t be taking it out the house because I’d be worried about damaging it or there are people willing to murder someone just to steal that type of item and sell it where I live. But if I was in the top 3% like raypin and isquirrel I’d and get the worlds most expensive headphones systems as well. Like he says life is short enjoy it to the fullest and if you are fortunate enough have the money to live it that way then do so.


----------



## Whitigir

Deftone said:


> if I could afford a WM1Z or DMPZ1 I wouldn’t be taking it out the house because I’d be worried about damaging it or there are people willing to murder someone just to steal that type of item and sell it where I live. But if I was in the top 3% like raypin and isquirrel I’d and get the worlds most expensive headphones systems as well. Like he says life is short enjoy it to the fullest and if you are fortunate enough have the money to live it that way then do so.



Definitely agreed, even though there are differences between some people who *can afford *stuff, and the people who *can toss money in your face*.  

The DMP-Z1 is definitely the one that was made for the later kind of folks


----------



## raypin

Ot: Mm...yeah. Nothing changes your perspective fast when you know that you are running out of time. Seriously. 

Let’s not dwell on this. Dread disease. Depressing.


----------



## Deftone

Come on then gents who’s the next one to step up and order a DMPZ1?


----------



## purk

Deftone said:


> Come on then gents who’s the next one to step up and order a DMPZ1?


Jude? At least he will get some discounts!


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> Jude? At least he will get some discounts!


I don’t know why, but your comment knocked me off my chair..laughing....Purk don’t normally joke, but when he does, it is so damn funny


----------



## Kira69

*DMP-Z1 - Engineer Interview*

https://www.sony.jp/feature/products/181101/

Featuring:

*Mitsunori Tanaka*  Product planning
*Tomoaki Sato* Design project leader
*Yoshihiro Matsuzaki* Electricity and sound quality design
*Hiroaki Sato* Sound quality design leader


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 2, 2018)

Kira69 said:


> *DMP-Z1 - Engineer Interview*
> 
> https://www.sony.jp/feature/products/181101/
> 
> ...



I totally agreed about Powersupply being a very important element.  Virtually, every engineers, and enthusiasts would agree.

Yes, Ground would affect the sound quality ! Surely enough, and I understand that the Body of RK51 is customized to incorporate OFC goldplated body instead of brass as it typical RK50 do.  I can’t say enough about how impressive Sony would have pulled this off.  Anyways, AKM DAC is chosen because of the power consumption which is lower than ESS Sabre’s ES9038Pro.  I know you want to convince people that AKM sound better, but the reality is power requirements.  Ofcourse, there are people who prefer AKM Velvet signature rather than Sabre’s.

I am in awe that you don’t mention about the use of PET capacitors and Fine sound Resistor throughout of the devices.  In fact, I think that this is the Most unique thing about Sony Z1, the ability to custom order different components to Sony specifications which is not existed for the mass market, case in point is RK51 as mentioned.  The newly developed PET capacitors s known to be excellent for sound quality because it is not subjected to Piezoelectric effects (vibrations and oscilliations that self generate Jitters and inaccuracy), the problems that plagues many other devices that use Tantalum and SMD.

Yes, it was marvelous to learn that Battery is developed by Sony, and the design that universally and intelligently switching power sources as mentioned, and that you did catered about Noises, Noises and again...Noises:  it could take the stock Wallwart, or an external Linear Power Supply, or completely relying on battery.  At this specific dimensions, and to last 9 hours on battery is marvelous.  But 4 hours charging to full isn’t anything impressive.  

_Now, the only 1 thing that I am disappointed is that there are no mentions about Oscilliators.  Yes, you did mentioned about an all in one device that cut down so many other components in the chains such as a PC, Cables...etc....But, you skipped the most important things in Digital music reproductions _*clock oscilliators precision and it noises*.  This is like dodging the bullets here, and then the next Bullet that you also dodged is the uses of intergrated TPA Headphones amplification chip.  I would say that every engineers and enthusiast would agree that discrete components and built Amplification stages for headphones amps would be just *as important as a good power supply*.

Yes, maybe Sony need an excuse to improve in the next iteration of their Walkman, or Flagship signatures.  However, at the price point of $8,000, the excuses should not be from the designs, or device capabilities.  That means the clock oscilliators have to be at it most highest precision in the industry, and the discrete design of the amplification stages should also be the industry highest.  In fact, at this price point, the only excuse you can rely on is *innovations and creativities*, but not technical capabilities and designs.

Ok, I am done ranting.


----------



## nanaholic

Whitigir said:


> and then the next Bullet that you also dodged is the uses of intergrated TPA Headphones amplification chip.  I would say that every engineers and enthusiast would agree that discrete components and built Amplification stages for headphones amps would be just *as important as a good power supply*.



They didn't dodge it - he said why in the interview.

佐藤（浩）：アナログアンプにはテキサス・インスツルメンツの「TPA6120A2」を採用しています。アナログアンプを検討していた時に、このほかにもディスクリートやマイナス電源を内蔵したアンプなど、いろいろな方式・デバイスのアンプの採用を検討しましたが、「TPA6120A2」は、バランス、アンバランスとも十分な性能を備えていたこと、長年検討して使い慣れていたこと、消費電力、そしてやはり聴き比べて音質の観点からもこのモデルにぴったりだったので、このICを選択しました。

They had looked at implementing a fully discrete amp stage, but from their own long hands on experience in sound tuning the TI chip and getting the desired sound signature they want as well as taking into consideration of power consumption, they opted for the chip.


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 3, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> They didn't dodge it - he said why in the interview.
> 
> 佐藤（浩）：アナログアンプにはテキサス・インスツルメンツの「TPA6120A2」を採用しています。アナログアンプを検討していた時に、このほかにもディスクリートやマイナス電源を内蔵したアンプなど、いろいろな方式・デバイスのアンプの採用を検討しましたが、「TPA6120A2」は、バランス、アンバランスとも十分な性能を備えていたこと、長年検討して使い慣れていたこと、消費電力、そしてやはり聴き比べて音質の観点からもこのモデルにぴったりだったので、このICを選択しました。
> 
> They had looked at implementing a fully discrete amp stage, but from their own long hands on experience in sound tuning the TI chip and getting the desired sound signature they want as well as taking into consideration of power consumption, they opted for the chip.



Yeah, you know what I meant when I said that they dodged the bullet from the point of view of a flagship at the given price point with all other things meticulously catered and accounted for.  Power consumptions from the DAC to the amplification stages....while previously impressed upon how they have achieved something in this department ?

Sure, a move no one have pulled off.  But it doesn’t mean that they had gone all out into an $8,000 device.  They could have gone all in, make it bigger (heck even 2” larger in all dimensions could have done so), with beefier battery, more spaces for better amplifications, and better catering about clock oscilliators, the heart of the digital music domains.  But no, it is an excuse to restrict it down, to improve upon the next release.  Just like I mentioned, the excuse should only be creativity and innovations, rather than the device technicality

While this Sony may sound and look somewhat like the Sony that we all used to love....it is just actually as much day and night different than the Sony that we used to love and looked upto...it is now more about how expensive and how many of those they can get moving rather than enthusiasm....


----------



## purk (Nov 3, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> They didn't dodge it - he said why in the interview.
> 
> 佐藤（浩）：アナログアンプにはテキサス・インスツルメンツの「TPA6120A2」を採用しています。アナログアンプを検討していた時に、このほかにもディスクリートやマイナス電源を内蔵したアンプなど、いろいろな方式・デバイスのアンプの採用を検討しましたが、「TPA6120A2」は、バランス、アンバランスとも十分な性能を備えていたこと、長年検討して使い慣れていたこと、消費電力、そしてやはり聴き比べて音質の観点からもこのモデルにぴったりだったので、このICを選択しました。
> 
> They had looked at implementing a fully discrete amp stage, but from their own long hands on experience in sound tuning the TI chip and getting the desired sound signature they want as well as taking into consideration of power consumption, they opted for the chip.


That is still dodging it man.  We all know that the Z1 can be even better if they had utilized a discrete amplification stage.  Yes, they are experienced at tuning a ready made chip but that's still a shortchanging it tor me.  1200 mw per channel is less than even the TA-ZH1ES output rating.  Everything else sounds impressive to me though.  Search around web for a mini Dynalo and that thing already kick the TA-ZH1ES in the butt.


----------



## nanaholic

purk said:


> That is still dodging it man.  We all know that the Z1 can be even better if they had utilized a discrete amplification stage.  Yes, they are experienced at tuning a ready made chip but that's still a shortchanging it tor me.  1200 mw per channel is less than even the TA-ZH1ES output rating.  Everything else sounds impressive to me though.  Search around web for a mini Dynalo and that thing already kick the TA-ZH1ES in the butt.



They are not dodging, as he said it's a balance between their knowledge of the chip, tuning it to achieve the desired sound signature as well as power consumption. In the beginning of the interview they also said since the TA amp is AC based so it's different set of criterias as the Z1 is designed to be battery driven.

I get you don't like their decisions, but that doesn't make them dodging the questions.


----------



## purk

nanaholic said:


> They are not dodging, as he said it's a balance between their knowledge of the chip, tuning it to achieve the desired sound signature as well as power consumption. In the beginning of the interview they also said since the TA amp is AC based so it's different set of criterias as the Z1 is designed to be battery driven.
> 
> I get you don't like their decisions, but that doesn't make them dodging the questions.



You are corrected here.  They made the choice to go with the TPA chip due to size and battery limitations.  There is no such thing as a Class A discrete headphones circuit which consume less power.  So they are still sacrificing audio performance to make this thing transportable.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> You are corrected here.  They made the choice to go with the TPA chip due to size and battery limitations.  There is no such thing as a Class A discrete headphones circuit which consume less power.  So they are still sacrificing audio performance to make this thing transportable.


Which shall not happen at $8000 price tag, we just circled back to my previous posts lol


----------



## audionewbi

I found a rather lengthy article, google translate does a good job:
https://m.midifan.com/article_body.php?id=6259


----------



## syke

I am just glad that the WM port is not on this, and with that comes USB Type C.
I hope this will continue to be the trend for their future product upgrades.


----------



## Whitigir

WM port is actually more desirable than Type C if you look at it as the purposes for audio performances.

WM ports allow better size of pins connectors, thicker, bigger, larger space in between Each pin.  WM ports also is 1 side plug, that means there is no extra components and circuitry to switch the gates when reverse plugging like the Type C.  WM port can be transporting Data at higher speed, it is all upto Sony DSP.  WM port can also have analog line out if Sony wants it to.

Type C is more trendy and universal for sure, also more convenient but WM port is not to be looked down upon either.  For pure audio purposes, WM port is desirable


----------



## audionewbi (Nov 10, 2018)

Spoke to a friend of mine who tried the DMP-Z1 extensively in Hong Kong. He said it is the best battery powered all in one unit he has ever tried. The sound is natural, effortless and it will in future will be one of those products Sony fan will look at and hunt for. However he was concerned with long term serviceability. Like me, he also believes such products should come with a lifetime warranty. Anything with battery, will sooner than latter will require a maintenance, at this stage there is no transparency on what are the after sales services, and fees will be like.

In regards of not having an RCA out, he told me using a 3.5mm to rca out worked as good as HUGO RCA to his portable DIY AMP. Naturally there was a different in tonality, but it was to DMP advantage.

Also someone told him, the DMP is a new series in Sony's line, just like the WM. There is more to come from that family.

PS: He tried the Z1R, he did not like it, he found M9 much more balance and fitwise much better suited to ears. Paired with Z1, M9 scaled more than Z1R. He is VE8 user, which I happened to dislike, so yea, YMMV.


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 10, 2018)

So ier-Z1R is not as good as M9 ? No doubt about the fit that M9 wins easily.  But performances ? That is disappointing.

Battery though, could it be user replaceable ?

But also at the price tag, you can have a Stax SRM D10 and SR009S with something like SP1000 or WM1Z as a source , and that still only accounts upto 8-9k, where as DMP-Z1 still need a Headphones


----------



## audionewbi

Whitigir said:


> So ier-Z1R is not as good as M9 ? No doubt about the fit that M9 wins easily.  But performances ? That is disappointing.
> 
> Battery though, could it be user replaceable ?
> 
> But also at the price tag, you can have a Stax SRM D10 and SR009S with something like SP1000 or WM1Z as a source , and that still only accounts upto 8-9k, where as DMP-Z1 still need a Headphones


Locally those parts will be more than dmp 1Z.

I think he has an issue with the z1r tuning whereas M9 is more balance, able to show the potential of 1Z.

He also loved the new Z7, and found it superior than MDR z1r.

You never know , Sony might come up with a way to control and navigate your DMP z1 using your Walkman or phone. As is I don’t think looking at such a tiny scree is easy.

The battery is user replaceable but where to source it from? It is a Sony’s own design.


----------



## raypin

audionewbi said:


> Spoke to a friend of mine who tried the DMP-Z1 extensively in Hong Kong. He said it is the best battery powered all in one unit he has ever tried. The sound is natural, effortless and it will in future will be one of those products Sony fan will look at and hunt for. However he was concerned with long term serviceability. Like me, he also believes such products should come with a lifetime warranty. Anything with battery, will sooner than latter will require a maintenance, at this stage there is no transparency on what are the after sales services, and fees will be like.
> 
> In regards of not having an RCA out, he told me using a 3.5mm to rca out worked as good as HUGO RCA to his portable DIY AMP. Naturally there was a different in tonality, but it was to DMP advantage.
> 
> ...



Mm...battery health/cycle count is a non-issue to me. It will take many, many years before the batteries become useless. Right now, the DMP Z1 specs says 8 to 10 hours battery life with 100% battery health. That is long enough for a transcontinental flight. Assuming that battery health deteriorates to 80% of capacity, that is still 6 to 8 hours of battery life, good enough for regional flights and then some. Who listens for 8 hours straight , even at home? My first Astell & Kern is the AK 240. Battery life is about 4 hours, after nearly 5 years of usage. Still more than good enough for on the go listening. 

As for battery reliability and durability, I have full confidence in Sony that the batteries on the DMPZ1 will outlast anything in the market.

But I agree with your friend. Lifetime warranty is deserved considering the high asking price.


----------



## raypin (Nov 11, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> So ier-Z1R is not as good as M9 ? No doubt about the fit that M9 wins easily.  But performances ? That is disappointing.
> 
> Battery though, could it be user replaceable ?
> 
> But also at the price tag, you can have a Stax SRM D10 and SR009S with something like SP1000 or WM1Z as a source , and that still only accounts upto 8-9k, where as DMP-Z1 still need a Headphones



Mm...yes but the DMP Z1 is much more useable. It can pair (and competently drive) just about any headphones on the planet. During my 3 hour audition, I plugged in the 600 ohm Beyerdynamic T1. At 2:30 on the volume pot, normal listening volume was achieved and the sound output was acceptable (not thin-sounding at all). I love electrostats (SR 009 and HE 1) but I also love dynamic and planer magnetics.


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 11, 2018)

Idk, but IMO, once you driven a good Stax out of a good system including Amp and Source and Cables...etc...nothing can surpass it.  That is why I hold Stax in very high regard.  Can’t speak for He-1, but it is still ES, and are you sure you are squeezing out every nuances from He-1 ?

The most important thing in a digital domain is Clocks (precision’s, accuracy, Dynamic range, and Lower noise floor, temperature co-efficiency) up-stream and down-stream, if given that output stage and power supply are well implemented.  For people who don’t DIY, it is great to snatch up MSB Select DAC and perceive a world of differences which ES will hugely benefit.  They may be expensive, but their technologies are real

The limitations of a good Electro-stat is the other components, such as Amplifier, DAC, Source, Files, Interconnect...etc...

This is the reason why I see a whole ocean of fishes isn’t going to satisfy my inner beast as much as 1 single Stax out of good system.  Hence I called out D10 and 009 will be a much better purchase, all in 1 solution.  The DMP Z1 though, is excellent for people who love hoarding all other dynamic headphones and enjoy them all


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 11, 2018)

audionewbi said:


> Locally those parts will be more than dmp 1Z.
> 
> I think he has an issue with the z1r tuning whereas M9 is more balance, able to show the potential of 1Z.
> 
> ...



Is it really user replaceable battery ? The thing look like a Pain to take apart ? And then where to get those battery too...lol.  However, seeing how the R10 in good condition can fetch nowadays, and extincted parts for replacement, it is no surprise that Sony is attempting it once more with DMP-Z1.  Who knows ? Perhap the ordinary TPA and RK501 are not so ordinary in the hands of Sony, just like Japanese Wood and closed back ordinary design which were taken into legendary status like R10


----------



## raypin (Nov 11, 2018)

Mm...the tiny screen is not an ergonomics nightmare. It was meant to be used wherever you want to be seated. In fact, I would not advice it to be used on a desk. Why would you? You can lie in bed and use it. You can sit on a couch or your favorite recliner or sit by your verandah and enjoy it.

I love my 009 for certain musical genres (mostly classical and female audiophile voices) but not for all musical genres. My taste in music is eclectic and that is why I have a good number of headphones that I keep around so I can mix and match equipment depending on the music or track or album or genre that I am playing/listeing to.In other words, I want to experience the full range of what is possible in this hobby.

Have you tried listening to rap music or EDM or death metal  on the 009?

I don’t hoard headphones for hoarding’s sake. I listen.


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 11, 2018)

I seriously have no problem with the screen being little, LCD generate a lot of noises, and these noises can contaminate the sound quality from conductive elements or radiated noises....anyways, I still can’t swallow the pill...in order to buy Z1 in a sensible manner, I need to sell most of the stuff I have lol


----------



## raypin

Mm...I agree with you about the opportunity cost. With 8K to invest, I, too,  would recommend getting the SR 009 or 007 plus Stax energizer rather than getting the Z1. Better value. With some reservations: Not everyone loves the eStat sound. I know of some who dislike it. Not enough bass is the common complaint. That is where the DMP Z1 stands as a reasonably alternative, paired, of course, with a top notch headphone and in-ear.


----------



## Sp12er3

Really it's a niche product in a swamp of an already niche community. 

Can't really argue otherwise for people that are really looking for "an elegant, one portable device for everything". 

It seems going with literally anything else in the market will cost on adding cables for connections, and this doesn't need any of that. 

It would probably handily beat any "only DAP" anyone else create for a good long while.

And that stands for something.

Definitely only for people that already have their neck deep in this mess of a hobby tho . 

Comparing performance per dollar value at the same price is moot really when the designer left that idea in a ditch somewhere a mile away.


----------



## Rob49 (Nov 11, 2018)

Regards the battery life, isn't it just easier to use this purely connected to power supply ? It's not like you're going to carry it around in your pocket, is it, or take it outside.

I've also just won £5.000 ( Not received money yet. ) & wondering whether to buy ?? Although, i couldn't get over the fact of buying my TA-ZH1ES, the most expensive audio equipment i've purchased ever....but don't now regret it, because i love it !

Hard to grasp that you could get £8.000 worth of pleasure out of an audio device ?? ( Well for me it is ! )


----------



## raypin

Mm..if you already have a good collection of top notch headphones, if you can still get good resale value on your TA, if you want or need to have a very good travel system, if you compare the TA and DMP Z1 and find the Z1 to be superior, then buy the DMP Z1. Otherwise, missing any of that goalposts means no-go for the Z1.


----------



## Sp12er3

Dunno if this have been shared here or not, but I checked Inner Fidelity today and saw this 

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/rmaf-2018-sony-dmp-z1-headphone-amp-and-mdr-z1r-headphones

I sure missed it, is After Tyll gone everybody still check the site?


----------



## Rob49

raypin said:


> Mm..if you already have a good collection of top notch headphones, if you can still get good resale value on your TA, if you want or need to have a very good travel system, if you compare the TA and DMP Z1 and find the Z1 to be superior, then buy the DMP Z1. Otherwise, missing any of that goalposts means no-go for the Z1.



Yes, i think it's overkill to have both, especially considering that i've only had my TA 3-4 months, which i'm very happy with !


----------



## raypin (Nov 12, 2018)

Sp12er3 said:


> Dunno if this have been shared here or not, but I checked Inner Fidelity today and saw this
> 
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/rmaf-2018-sony-dmp-z1-headphone-amp-and-mdr-z1r-headphones
> 
> I sure missed it, is After Tyll gone everybody still check the site?



Mm...still checking every now and then. Innerfidelity = less noise, more signal.

Just read the link. I think that explains the Tentative marking on the DMP Z1 packaging of the DMP unit I auditioned. It is the pre-production unit, same as Denver’s. 99% sure of it. Which means I have to do another round of audition before purchasing. This time without the Tentative marking.

Exciting. What will the final voicing be?


----------



## jaibautista

Having had the pleasure to audition a prototype (i.e., "Tentative") DMP-Z1 twice (one in optimal listening conditions, the other not-so-optimal) with an assortment of headphones and IEMs (Sony MDR-Z1R, Sony MDR-Z7M2, AKG K812, HD660S, HD800, JVC FD01 with brass filters), I think it is the best battery-powered source I've listened to, bar none. I was particularly enraptured with the performance of its 3.5mm output; my previous experiences with Sony DAPs that have both balanced and single ended jacks have often left me wondering why Sony decided to "attenuate" (for lack of a better term) the performance of the single-ended jack, as if Sony is pushing the consumer to go balanced all the way (being an owner of the WM1A for around a year already, I am very happy with the 4.4mm output's performance but I somehow wished the 3.5mm output's performance wasn't that far behind). With the DMP-Z1, though, the entire time I was listening to the K812 I was just shaking my head in disbelief, how the K812 sounded blissful and with unbridled authority. Looking back at the time when I was able to try the TA-ZH1ES and comparing my listening experience with the DMP-Z1, the latter is hands down the better item as far as sound performance is concerned (and disregarding the fact that the latter is loads more expensive). 

With the caveat that I haven't had the chance to listen to the MDR-R10/Qualia 01/SA5000 and the IER-Z1R, I think the DMP-Z1 is the best Sony audio product I've ever heard. If only I have a spare USD8K lying somewhere


----------



## purk (Nov 17, 2018)

jaibautista said:


> Having had the pleasure to audition a prototype (i.e., "Tentative") DMP-Z1 twice (one in optimal listening conditions, the other not-so-optimal) with an assortment of headphones and IEMs (Sony MDR-Z1R, Sony MDR-Z7M2, AKG K812, HD660S, HD800, JVC FD01 with brass filters), I think it is the best battery-powered source I've listened to, bar none. I was particularly enraptured with the performance of its 3.5mm output; my previous experiences with Sony DAPs that have both balanced and single ended jacks have often left me wondering why Sony decided to "attenuate" (for lack of a better term) the performance of the single-ended jack, as if Sony is pushing the consumer to go balanced all the way (being an owner of the WM1A for around a year already, I am very happy with the 4.4mm output's performance but I somehow wished the 3.5mm output's performance wasn't that far behind). With the DMP-Z1, though, the entire time I was listening to the K812 I was just shaking my head in disbelief, how the K812 sounded blissful and with unbridled authority. Looking back at the time when I was able to try the TA-ZH1ES and comparing my listening experience with the DMP-Z1, the latter is hands down the better item as far as sound performance is concerned (and disregarding the fact that the latter is loads more expensive).
> 
> With the caveat that I haven't had the chance to listen to the MDR-R10/Qualia 01/SA5000 and the IER-Z1R, I think the DMP-Z1 is the best Sony audio product I've ever heard. If only I have a spare USD8K lying somewhere



It has to be great for that price.  As good as the ZH1ES is, many system also handily beat it.  I took a chance on an Audio-Technica AT-HA5050H this week for a really good price and it easily better the ZH1ES in every aspect.  I'm usually not a fan of SE amplifier but a SE done right can be simply outstanding.  Sometime it is a matter of topology.  So glad that I took a chance on the HA5050H.  I really hope that I get to hear the Z1 one day.  Sadly there is not even a single Sony store here in Atlanta Metro area.


----------



## syke

purk said:


> It has to be great for that price.  As good as the ZH1ES is, many system also handily beat it.  I took a chance on an Audio-Technica AT-HA5050H this week for a really good price and it easily better the ZH1ES in every aspect.  I'm usually not a fan of SE amplifier but a SE done right can be simply outstanding.  Sometime it is a matter of topology.  So glad that I took a chance on the HA5050H.  I really hope that I get to hear the Z1 one day.  Sadly there is not even a single Sony store here in Atlanta Metro area.



_The AT-HA5050H is more than double the price of the TA-ZH1ES. It better be beating the TA-ZH1ES._


----------



## purk

syke said:


> _The AT-HA5050H is more than double the price of the TA-ZH1ES. It better be beating the TA-ZH1ES._



Yes, more expensive but I didn't pay full price on it.  What I'm trying to say that it isn't that difficult to beat the ZH1ES especially the $6K price difference.  Imagine how many ZH1ES you can have for the price of the Z1.


----------



## buzzlulu

Will the Z1 be available for sale in the US?


----------



## AudiophileInTokyo (Dec 1, 2018)

So yesterday I was in the Sony Store in Ginza, Tokyo, and tried out the new Sony DMP-Z1. At last!

My first impression: this device is HUUUUGE. And yeah, heavy. There's no way you can (or even want to) carry it around with you. It's not a portable Walkman, all right. Instead, it's a compact, "carriable," and gorgeous piece of equipment that will wow anybody that sees it sitting in your home. But we already knew that.

Second thing is the sound quality. I'm not an expert, but it's probably the best thing on the market right now. I mean this thing is just amazing, breathtakingly amazing. You feel like you're listening to music in a whole new way, on a whole new level. It's somewhat similar to the NW-WM1Z, but even better. _Noticeably_ better. You'd think that's not possible, but it is, trust me it is! You feel like your head is in the clouds and you're surrounded by a stream music in all directions. You feel like you're in the middle of it--losing yourself in music, so to speak. I'm not very good with words, I don't know how else to describe the clarity and _purity_ of the sound...

Unfortunately, I didn't have much time to spend with it (I was there with my girlfriend, and she wanted to do some shopping; besides other people wanted to try out this device too), but I made this short video, if you're interested... It's not so much a video about the DMP-1Z (although that's in it too, of course), but of our short shopping trip to Ginza and the Sony Store at Christmas season. So if you haven't been to Ginza or Tokyo yet, this is what's it's like here... 

In the future I might make a more comprehensive video on just the DMP-Z1, when (if!) I decide to get it.

Anyway, in the meantime, I hope you enjoy the video!


----------



## Redcarmoose

AudiophileInTokyo said:


> So the other day I was in the Sony Store in Ginza, Tokyo, and tried out the new Sony DMP-Z1. At last!
> 
> My first impression: this device is HUUUUGE. And yeah, heavy. There's no way you can (or even want to) carry it around with you. It's not a Walkman, all right. Instead, it's a compact, "carriable," and gorgeous equipment that will wow anybody who sees it sitting in your home. But we already knew that.
> 
> ...




Great video, was there in that store a couple months ago. That’s my favorite part of Tokyo. Hopefully be back in March? 

Still I had non-audiophile friends over and even they noted how much better the TA amp was with the Z1R than the little 1Z. That would have been a better side by side quick comparison in your post. Of course we’re waiting for a review of some style. I hope folks get them and enjoy them.


----------



## Whitigir

The WM1Z is a Walkman, a portable unit.  For the price, the DMP-Z1 should out perform the WM-1Z or Astel Kern flagship SP1000.

So the question here is that, how close is it to Desktop system ?

Thanks for the impression and the video @AudiophileInTokyo


----------



## emrelights1973

it is a desktop system....


----------



## Whitigir

emrelights1973 said:


> it is a desktop system....


It is not even a desktop system

Not without a proper Linear Power Supply, without Line-out, without the prowess to process DSD512 or Upsampling into DSD512, without discrete high performances headphone amp circuitry, without a high precision OCXO clock systems

DMP-Z1 is a thing that is bigger and supposed to be better than your typical Portable devices, but it isn’t a desktop system


----------



## nanaholic

Whitigir said:


> It is not even a desktop system
> 
> Not without a proper Linear Power Supply, without Line-out, without the prowess to process DSD512 or Upsampling into DSD512, without discrete high performances headphone amp circuitry, without a high precision OCXO clock systems
> 
> DMP-Z1 is a thing that is bigger and supposed to be better than your typical Portable devices, but it isn’t a desktop system



Many desktop system or desktop DACs doesn't do what you say there either. Your criteria is literally arbitrary and is not an acknowledge common standard.


----------



## emrelights1973

İt is “coffe table” system whorty of a living room!


----------



## Whitigir (Dec 1, 2018)

New technology is moving faster than we thought, the IFI Pro IDSD does Upsampling and processing upto DSD1024, not DSD512.  It is hard to think that we are still stuck at DSD256 on an 8K device ? Even a Chinese DAC can process DSD1024 (LKS004), and has discrete circuitry output.

LKS-004 was released 2 years ago, and IFI was released few months ago, while DMP-Z1 is a newer device, with this price tag.  Nope, it isn’t a Desktop in my point of view


----------



## nanaholic

Chord DACs like the DAVE or Hugo TT2 doesn't even do PCM to DSD conversion, neither does the Sennheiser HE1 system. By your criteria neither of those are Desktop Systems.  

Do you see how meaningless your criteria are? Using PCM to DSD up conversion as a definitive desktop system criteria is, for the lack of a better word, dumb.


----------



## emrelights1973

İ have many cds, lps,flac 16/44 and hidef maybe 2-3 dsd albums..
İ dont get at all why this dsd is a vital at all!


----------



## Whitigir

nanaholic said:


> Chord DACs like the DAVE or Hugo TT2 doesn't even do PCM to DSD conversion, neither does the Sennheiser HE1 system. By your criteria neither of those are Desktop Systems.
> 
> Do you see how meaningless your criteria are? Using PCM to DSD up conversion as a definitive desktop system criteria is, for the lack of a better word, dumb.




You can simply exclude that DSD up sampling out, and DMP-Z1 still lack plethora of others, which just make it not a desktop system, period

Before mentioning Chord, you should know what they are doing instead of judging about their ablility of Upsampling to DSD btw


----------



## nephilim32

Omg what a freaking incredible DAP/AMP .
Best looking H-Chasis and volume control wheel I've ever seen on a transportable device . I cannot wait to hear it . Bet it would sound great with a pair of LCD XC's. My god we live in such an exciting time for tech advancement in audio . Wow.


----------



## Whitigir

nephilim32 said:


> Omg what a freaking incredible DAP/AMP .
> Best looking H-Chasis and volume control wheel I've ever seen on a transportable device . I cannot wait to hear it . Bet it would sound great with a pair of LCD XC's. My god we live in such an exciting time for tech advancement in audio . Wow.


Yeah, I agree


----------



## nanaholic

Whitigir said:


> You can simply exclude that DSD up sampling out, and DMP-Z1 still lack plethora of others, which just make it not a desktop system, period
> 
> Before mentioning Chord, you should know what they are doing instead of judging about their ablility of Upsampling to DSD btw



Of course I know what Chord does and that is exactly why I brought them up because it makes the case that just randomly picking out a missing feature to dismiss the system as not being a desktop is silly.

Using your logic, I can say as the Z1 has a unique FPGA based DSD remastering engine which many other systems don’t have makes other hardware not a desktop system, it’s a silly nonsensical argument yet you keep being it up and it’s just not constructive.


----------



## Whitigir (Dec 2, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> Of course I know what Chord does and that is exactly why I brought them up because it makes the case that just randomly picking out a missing feature to dismiss the system as not being a desktop is silly.
> 
> Using your logic, I can say as the Z1 has a unique FPGA based DSD remastering engine which many other systems don’t have makes other hardware not a desktop system, it’s a silly nonsensical argument yet you keep being it up and it’s just not constructive.



Again, you can exclude the DSD remastering engine, the DNP-Z1 is still not a desktop system period.

No Linear Power Supply
Weak power output
No discrete amplifier circuit
What is that clocking system again ?
No line out

I guess, we can both agree to disagree.  In my opinion, the DMP-Z1 is not a desktop system, a “Carriable system” as defined and clarified by Sony engineers is fine.  They even called that TA-ZH1ES is a desktop and Z1 is “Carriable”


----------



## emrelights1973

You can carry a lot of things on you backpack...

İf you are using the device on a desk/ shelf but not your pocket is a desktop system...

All desktop Systems are carriable) what does even mean? 

İt is not if you can carry easly ör not but how you listen the music...

You put on your shelf/desk/table and enjoy it

Not in a bus ör plane ride


----------



## tumpux

emrelights1973 said:


> İt is “coffe table” system



You got my vote brother..


----------



## Jalo

@raypin, did you end up trying the He1000 v2? I am a little concern about the stated power output. For stereo mini output it is rated at 550 mw, that is about the same as the LPG, and for balance 4.4 output it is rated at 1500 mw but at 16 ohm, I just listened to the He1000 v2 on the LPG and it could use more power as I have to turn the volume to the max on hi gain.  At 32 ohm it will be between 500 mw to 1000 mw for balance. I am curious if the DMP can drive those full-size phones to its potential.


----------



## nanaholic (Dec 3, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Again, you can exclude the DSD remastering engine, the DNP-Z1 is still not a desktop system period.
> 
> No Linear Power Supply
> Weak power output
> ...



Again your definition is silly. Why do I have to forgo my criteria and you don't? I won't forget that the other equipment don't have DSD Remastering Engine which the DMP-Z1 does so using my criteria only the Z1 is a desktop system. Do you not see how silly this argument becomes when you just pick out random criteria and just holding onto that as the only valid measuring stick?

A desktop system by its word definition should just be something that sits on a desk, period. Picking out random hardware features of your own liking as a measuring criteria and masking it as a commonly accepted standard is hubris.


----------



## Whitigir (Dec 3, 2018)

nanaholic said:


> Again your definition is silly.
> 
> A desktop system by definition should just be something that sits on a desk, period. Picking out random hardware features of your own liking as a measuring criteria and masking it as a commonly accepted standard is hubris.


Seriously, are you defending Sony or working for Sony ? I don’t understand

Once again, Sony engineers clarified and confirmed DMP 1Z is a Carriable system.  It is neither a desktop nor a portable Walkman

This is your definition of desktop system, ok.  But not mine, why keep pushing it down to my throat ? It won’t work


----------



## Whitigir

This is my desktop system and by definition of it .  Therefore, once again....DMP-Z1 is not a desktop system to me, and the Sony engineers who made it.  I am fine _if it is by your own definition, _just not mine
__


----------



## nephilim32

I am extremely curious about the Amp's power output. One can help but wonder could this DMP Z1 drive even the most ogre, power hungry headphones around at least 80DB With still some room on that potentiometer. I wonder? And for this price and size of this DAP/AMP it is a fair thing to wonder.


----------



## nephilim32

Whitigir said:


> This is my desktop system and by definition of it .  Therefore, once again....DMP-Z1 is not a desktop system to me, and the Sony engineers who made it.  I am fine _if it is by your own definition, _just not mine
> __



That is a beautiful system. You cover all angles and no shortcuts to great audio . I use FURMAN as well for power (linear) conditioning as well . 
Enjoy that nice system .
I think DMP Z1 would be good for you on the road cause you certainly don't need it for the home. Lol


----------



## emrelights1973

Whitigir said:


> This is my desktop system and by definition of it .  Therefore, once again....DMP-Z1 is not a desktop system to me, and the Sony engineers who made it.  I am fine _if it is by your own definition, _just not mine
> __



İf you buy it.... where will you put it?

Maybe somewhere över there?

On will you carry it home to office?


----------



## Whitigir

emrelights1973 said:


> İf you buy it.... where will you put it?
> 
> Maybe somewhere över there?
> 
> On will you carry it home to office?



I don’t think I am going to buy it, but if I do, probably in a backpack.  I am still trying to convince myself lol


----------



## Whitigir

New interview about the DMP-Z1 here

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://e-earphone.blog/?p=1294529&fbclid=IwAR0Q9_-z5nC83_r1adbYGYb1BgeYfv8zSfhS9TBY_iE6PyxZoVpGzQOySOA

Still, no one mentioned about the 3 important factors of a device : Clock system, DSP chip, and Amplification circuitry.  Maybe I missed it


----------



## Whitigir

Also, pardon me, but AKM has announced _*AK4499EQ*_ which is the successor of AK4497EQ inside the DMP-Z1.

AKM

See ? In this days and age...Sony...if you don’t stick with your own patented S-Master, you are quickly falling behind.  The Chinese can cope with it due to how cheap and how dedicated their labor can be, but for Sony, it would be a struggle.  It would be a huge different if it was S-master dual

Anyways, for $8K ? And with inferior chips ? Sure, sound logical


----------



## Sp12er3

Since when are we a crowd that's so sensitive to incremental update?
We ain't like smartphone buying here, what's matter is whether you're satisfied with how it sounds, or not. 

Heck here, a 15+ YO headphone is still revered by everyone. 

Really just get some demo time with it and keep comments for after that..


----------



## Whitigir

Sp12er3 said:


> Since when are we a crowd that's so sensitive to incremental update?
> We ain't like smartphone buying here, what's matter is whether you're satisfied with how it sounds, or not.
> 
> Heck here, a 15+ YO headphone is still revered by everyone.
> ...



R10 is Sony Headphones that stood the time, and it was all Sony own technology....just saying, it was better if it used S-Master instead


----------



## Cburd

monini13 said:


> ​
> Hey everyone! Joseph over here and to be succinct, I've been working with @thatonenoob to provide tech/audio reviews and updates for the last year and a half. I'm an audio enthusiast myself, and about a month back, I received an invitation by the Sony Singapore Team to join a Sony Experience event alongside the Hong Kong High End Audio Visual Show.  I'll be posting more updates on this thread as the event moves along, so feel free to ask me any questions.
> 
> Those who would like to know more about Sony's other releases during this event can take a look at the following threads that I have created:
> ...



Has anyone had the opportunity to "audition" this price and size beast I was going to say "try" but for $8 grand and for the actual first time ever, audition seemed like the right choice of words). Just wondering how great this thing might be but just as (perhaps) most of us do, I can't convince my logical (OK cynical) side to imagine that what we have here is more smoke and mirrors than anything else. I've been around and ya gotta wonder what they can actually do to make this "portable" DAP sound like 8 grand. I sure as hell do but my guess is that it does not sound better than my Astell & Kern Kann coupled with iFi iDSD Micro Black and my HD800(S) cans OR to be more fair (you know, apples to apples), my money is with this Sony "Black Mamba" (my words) perhaps sounding marginally better than just my Kann and my HD800(s)'s in balanced leaving out the additional HP amp. I may never know the actual answers but based on past experience, I bet I'm closer to right than wrong. If I am in fact completely wrong, "cburd" you say, "you're an idiot, you missed it by a mile", you're such a cynical a-hole, this thing is the friggin bees knees!.....then can someone please tell me, who carries it, what's the lead time and current price? I'm in! Anyhow, now to some rather insignificant things you are (were) likely unaware of: Firstly, NOW we all know what LeBron James (now Laker's superstar) is packing when you see him wearing his, (what we all thought were just media avoidance headphones) NOPE, they're customized, staggeringly shiny, one of a kind, gold, supercharged Focal Utopias (NOT plated, yea yea, they're heavy), with rare polished Euro Space Black (just the outer shells, because, as we already covered, most everything else is .99993 gold even though silver would have been better! FTR: Sennheiser refused to customize the Orpheus..... but if you just so happen to come across Lebron, please don't tell him all of this and burst his bubble, it may screw with his head and his shrink is $40,000 an hour.  Oh.... BTW,  going back a sentence or two, Apple missed the mark. Space is NOT gray, unless you are within 6 billion light years from a star, dammit, it's pitch BLACK.... OK, I digress......where was I?..... Oh yes.....cost for arguably the world's coolest headphones, $159,000 U.S., world class sound for sure but most importantly, to compliment and even boost the shiny $8,000 Sony Black Mamba DAP he's sporting which, by the way, now sounds like is a hell of a deal compared to those sweet sounding, supercharged, custom cans! BUT......We all know that a nice set of cans always cost a little more than the transport source anyhow so Lebron's doing just fine, right there with us, the "status quo", right? To Lebron's credit, he has no idea. His "guy" told him this is the very best audio presentation money can buy and let's face it, he IS coming straight from Cleveland and is "open game".....and also just so you (the reader of this rubbish) can understand this nonsense and..... well..... just for a basic reference point, Lebron thinks we all pay $750 U.S. for a gallon of milk and that gas (91 octane but Lebron thinks its 201RF) is $32 a gallon (based on the current $812 per barrel crude price). His $75 million Ferrari pings on low octane gas and he learned that 201 *R*ocket *F*uel solves this...not only that, it makes his car, not only go faster (1,200 MPH, Mach 2, tested on Bonneville Salt Flats, UT, USA) but it makes it sound and smell better too!...Lebron must be soooooo grateful to be here in L.A. and have such access to all of this life enhancing expert help and advice because in Cleveland, his "guy" told him........drum roll please....................... "Get some Beats and an iPhone, sound doesn't get better"!..... The end (almost)....... Anyhow, I'm kind of a neophyte at these "message board sites". Been around for a long while but never really knew (or know) what to say.... Hmm.....While pondering my closing sentence......It occurred to me, how abundantly clear it must be that I still don't.....Anyhow folks, in closing..... I hope this gets a laugh and that I don't get too flamed and kicked off this thread. Oh, and I actually am legitimately curious about the Black Mamba's performance (now I can't even remember the actual name of the device)  if anyone knows (not the name, its performance) and is so inclined to share (with me). I think that's why I stopped by in the first place.....Thanks and Cheers!


----------



## syke

Ban this troll


----------



## Whitigir

What the heck did I just read ? It hurts my mind and eyes.....

Anyways, from hardware analyzing this master piece, I would say even if it comes close to 80% of a sophisticated desktop system, then it is more than worth it.  Even if it sounds better than Chord Dave, then it is already worth it.  I can’t wait to hear more impressions


----------



## Cburd

Sorry guys...really!  My sincere apologies, I was delirious from lack of sleep and some difficult wife issues and got carried away with some childish behavior. It was very much out of character for me. Moving forward, I'll be certain to remain on topic. Anyhow, thanks for the reply. I simply can't imagine (I even question the feasibility) of making a DAP  perform better than the Chord Dave even though I have never actually heard the Dave. Even though the new Sony is, as they say transportable, I think Dave (in a bigger chassis) is a lofty goal. Maybe it will be up to par with AK SP1000 but with a really capable amp built in. It would explain the size I guess. Anyhow, 8 grand is not were I'm going. I am seriously considering the Hugo 2 to pair with my AK DAPs and HD800(S) cans. I am wondering if it's a good match for me. Do I need to go to another thread to do that? I suspect that I do but I'm not certain how. I'm guessing a few people would be happy to see me go but the truth is, I'm not such a bad guy, was a writer for a noted playwright a few years back (90's) and I worked almost solely on Satire (perhaps that showed a bit in my crazy pitch last night) Anyhow, I am rather new at the posting part of this which is why I ask.


----------



## Sp12er3

Cburd said:


> Has anyone had the opportunity to "audition" this price and size beast I was going to say "try" but for $8 grand and for the actual first time ever, audition seemed like the right choice of words). Just wondering how great this thing might be but just as (perhaps) most of us do, I can't convince my logical (OK cynical) side to imagine that what we have here is more smoke and mirrors than anything else. I've been around and ya gotta wonder what they can actually do to make this "portable" DAP sound like 8 grand. I sure as hell do but my guess is that it does not sound better than my Astell & Kern Kann coupled with iFi iDSD Micro Black and my HD800(S) cans OR to be more fair (you know, apples to apples), my money is with this Sony "Black Mamba" (my words) perhaps sounding marginally better than just my Kann and my HD800(s)'s in balanced leaving out the additional HP amp. I may never know the actual answers but based on past experience, I bet I'm closer to right than wrong. If I am in fact completely wrong, "cburd" you say, "you're an idiot, you missed it by a mile", you're such a cynical a-hole, this thing is the friggin bees knees!.....then can someone please tell me, who carries it, what's the lead time and current price? I'm in! Anyhow, now to some rather insignificant things you are (were) likely unaware of: Firstly, NOW we all know what LeBron James (now Laker's superstar) is packing when you see him wearing his, (what we all thought were just media avoidance headphones) NOPE, they're customized, staggeringly shiny, one of a kind, gold, supercharged Focal Utopias (NOT plated, yea yea, they're heavy), with rare polished Euro Space Black (just the outer shells, because, as we already covered, most everything else is .99993 gold even though silver would have been better! FTR: Sennheiser refused to customize the Orpheus..... but if you just so happen to come across Lebron, please don't tell him all of this and burst his bubble, it may screw with his head and his shrink is $40,000 an hour.  Oh.... BTW,  going back a sentence or two, Apple missed the mark. Space is NOT gray, unless you are within 6 billion light years from a star, dammit, it's pitch BLACK.... OK, I digress......where was I?..... Oh yes.....cost for arguably the world's coolest headphones, $159,000 U.S., world class sound for sure but most importantly, to compliment and even boost the shiny $8,000 Sony Black Mamba DAP he's sporting which, by the way, now sounds like is a hell of a deal compared to those sweet sounding, supercharged, custom cans! BUT......We all know that a nice set of cans always cost a little more than the transport source anyhow so Lebron's doing just fine, right there with us, the "status quo", right? To Lebron's credit, he has no idea. His "guy" told him this is the very best audio presentation money can buy and let's face it, he IS coming straight from Cleveland and is "open game".....and also just so you (the reader of this rubbish) can understand this nonsense and..... well..... just for a basic reference point, Lebron thinks we all pay $750 U.S. for a gallon of milk and that gas (91 octane but Lebron thinks its 201RF) is $32 a gallon (based on the current $812 per barrel crude price). His $75 million Ferrari pings on low octane gas and he learned that 201 *R*ocket *F*uel solves this...not only that, it makes his car, not only go faster (1,200 MPH, Mach 2, tested on Bonneville Salt Flats, UT, USA) but it makes it sound and smell better too!...Lebron must be soooooo grateful to be here in L.A. and have such access to all of this life enhancing expert help and advice because in Cleveland, his "guy" told him........drum roll please....................... "Get some Beats and an iPhone, sound doesn't get better"!..... The end (almost)....... Anyhow, I'm kind of a neophyte at these "message board sites". Been around for a long while but never really knew (or know) what to say.... Hmm.....While pondering my closing sentence......It occurred to me, how abundantly clear it must be that I still don't.....Anyhow folks, in closing..... I hope this gets a laugh and that I don't get too flamed and kicked off this thread. Oh, and I actually am legitimately curious about the Black Mamba's performance (now I can't even remember the actual name of the device)  if anyone knows (not the name, its performance) and is so inclined to share (with me). I think that's why I stopped by in the first place.....Thanks and Cheers!


When "reader only" wants to keep his comment counts low.... 


Or just a smurf Troll account..


----------



## Uncle Monty

I was very interested in the DMP Z1 but recently tried out a Chord TT2 and was so smitten I bought it. Almost immediately I upgraded with the M-Scaler to experience a level of hifi I never thought possible on my budget. Had the DMP Z1 been available sooner I might have gone with it without ever auditioning the Chord gear - such are the vagaries of life. I would love to hear the DMP Z1 at some point but, having spent all my money on the TT2 + MS, I can't imagine I'll buy it. Assuming the Sony is considered more of a desktop rig, I can see the advantages in having fewer cables etc - in fact no cables really if you simply charge it occasionally. With my DAP plugged in to my MS connected to my TT2 with all the power cables etc  its getting like spaghetti round here. That said, to beat the Chord combo IMO the Sony will have to excel - I wonder what Sony are using as a benchmark? I am sure it will sound amazing and I await the first comparison tests. Perhaps one day I'll go full Sony.


----------



## tumpux

No need to apologize, most of us just skip anything longer than a couple of lines. 
Also, it's funny that you think Mr James has to pay for his setup..


----------



## Zhanming057

Uncle Monty said:


> I was very interested in the DMP Z1 but recently tried out a Chord TT2 and was so smitten I bought it. Almost immediately I upgraded with the M-Scaler to experience a level of hifi I never thought possible on my budget. Had the DMP Z1 been available sooner I might have gone with it without ever auditioning the Chord gear - such are the vagaries of life. I would love to hear the DMP Z1 at some point but, having spent all my money on the TT2 + MS, I can't imagine I'll buy it. Assuming the Sony is considered more of a desktop rig, I can see the advantages in having fewer cables etc - in fact no cables really if you simply charge it occasionally. With my DAP plugged in to my MS connected to my TT2 with all the power cables etc  its getting like spaghetti round here. That said, to beat the Chord combo IMO the Sony will have to excel - I wonder what Sony are using as a benchmark? I am sure it will sound amazing and I await the first comparison tests. Perhaps one day I'll go full Sony.



IMO the Chord Hugo 2 with a good portable headphone amp (e.g. Mass Kobo 404, Woo WA8) is substantially superior to the DMP-Z1. The DMP-Z1 is only a tiny bit better than the SP1000 running line out to a Xi Audio Broadway S. 

At $3,500 it would be a very competitive offering but at $8,000 the Z1 simply cannot compare to portable stacks in its price range.


----------



## Whitigir

Zhanming057 said:


> IMO the Chord Hugo 2 with a good portable headphone amp (e.g. Mass Kobo 404, Woo WA8) is substantially superior to the DMP-Z1. The DMP-Z1 is only a tiny bit better than the SP1000 running line out to a Xi Audio Broadway S.
> 
> At $3,500 it would be a very competitive offering but at $8,000 the Z1 simply cannot compare to portable stacks in its price range.


And you did extensively compare between sp1000 and DMP-Z1 ?


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## Kakki

I tried DMP-Z1 twice at Sony Ginza in Tokyo. 1st time with MDR-Z1R and 2nd time with my own ER-4S.
I would say that Z1 has very soft and warm sound signature like a good tube amp. I actually like the sound very much. No fatigue and very relaxing.
But from the sound quality stand point, it lacks micro details and all the music would be played with the same sound signature, like adding cream to all the dishes you eat.
I also found that it could hardly drive my ER-4S with high-gain mode. You will need to use balanced output to drive difficult headphones.
Other drawbacks are lack of 6.5mm phone jack and tiny LCD for operation. 
No wonder that less than 10 Z1 is sold at Sony Ginza...


----------



## Whitigir

Kakki said:


> I tried DMP-Z1 twice at Sony Ginza in Tokyo. 1st time with MDR-Z1R and 2nd time with my own ER-4S.
> I would say that Z1 has very soft and warm sound signature like a good tube amp. I actually like the sound very much. No fatigue and very relaxing.
> But from the sound quality stand point, it lacks micro details and all the music would be played with the same sound signature, like adding cream to all the dishes you eat.
> I also found that it could hardly drive my ER-4S with high-gain mode. You will need to use balanced output to drive difficult headphones.
> ...



It also is too expensive for what it can do.  But if the sound is colored up too much, then it isn’t good.  Thanks for the impressions


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## Kakki

Agreed. In the end, Z1 is a huge size Walkman which got a bit better sound but completely lost its portability.
Because of the size and weight, it has to compete with other high-end desktop DAC/headphone amps but is not capable to do what competitors can do. Less power, less connectivity, less usability...
Very niche product for rich but inexperienced users. Outcome of miss-marketing and that is why it sells only few...


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## nanaholic (Dec 22, 2018)

Kakki said:


> Agreed. In the end, Z1 is a huge size Walkman which got a bit better sound but completely lost its portability.
> Because of the size and weight, it has to compete with other high-end desktop DAC/headphone amps but is not capable to do what competitors can do. Less power, less connectivity, less usability...
> Very niche product for rich but inexperienced users. Outcome of miss-marketing and that is why it sells only few...



Actually I would say it is you who had misread how the market works.
2 reason why DMP-Z1 sells "so few" at Sony Store:
a) 10 units @ 923,000yen including tax is really not "few", no matter how you cut it. Truth is not many people in Japan can fork over nearly 1M straight.
b) there is almost no discount at Sony Store (unless you own a Sony Credit Card, which will give you a measly 3% discount), compared with other electronic stores which will either give you a straight discounted price (eg e-earphones selling at 850k) or 10% store points of the retail price (which is as good as 10% cash back) such as Yodobashi Camera means you save nearly 100k, so there is no incentive to buy at the Sony Store.

Sony's Official Store will never price compete with other outlets - as Sony has to give other outlets a chance to make money else no one else will stock Sony products again. So going by how many were sold at Sony's Ginza Store is not a good gauge of the market. And even then 10 units at the official store for a 1M product is a good number, that's 10M there already for a product that only launched for a week.


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## Kakki (Dec 22, 2018)

Oh dear, Sony Ginza is selling Z1 at 855k when you say e-earphone is selling it at 850k.
If I were to buy it, I would definitely buy it at Sony Ginza as I could try it as much as I wanted and they also offer longer warranty service.
Also I remember that Chord Dave sold like hot cakes when it was priced at 1500k... people, including myself had to wait many months to get Dave. On the other hand, Z1? You have stock every where.
The man in Sony store was pretty sad to tell me that it sold much less than 10 units even though so many people tried it.
I have no wonder why as Z1 offers very small attractiveness when it is priced so high.


----------



## Whitigir

Kakki said:


> Oh dear, Sony Ginza is selling Z1 at 85.5k when you say e-earphone is selling it at 85k.
> If I were to buy it, I would definitely buy it at Sony Ginza as I could try it as much as I wanted and they also offer longer warranty service.
> Also I remember that Chord Dave sold like hot cakes when it was priced at 150k... people, including myself had to wait many months to get Dave. On the other hand, Z1? You have stock every where.
> The man in Sony store was pretty sad to tell me that it sold much less than 10 units even though so many people tried it.
> I have no wonder why as Z1 offers very small attractiveness when it is priced so high.



I think if Z1 were to sport dual S-Master HX (the first of it kind), then it would be selling just as hot cake ?


----------



## Kakki

Whitigir said:


> I think if Z1 were to sport dual S-Master HX (the first of it kind), then it would be selling just as hot cake ?


I don’t think so. I think very few people would want a non-portable Walkman with just a bit better sound. If it was as portable as other HiFi Walkman, it might sold much more. Just my opinion though.


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## mrtim6

Has anyone on headfi actually purchased one? Would love to hear their thoughts.


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## nanaholic (Dec 23, 2018)

Kakki said:


> Oh dear, Sony Ginza is selling Z1 at 855k when you say e-earphone is selling it at 850k.
> If I were to buy it, I would definitely buy it at Sony Ginza as I could try it as much as I wanted and they also offer longer warranty service.
> Also I remember that Chord Dave sold like hot cakes when it was priced at 1500k... people, including myself had to wait many months to get Dave. On the other hand, Z1? You have stock every where.
> The man in Sony store was pretty sad to tell me that it sold much less than 10 units even though so many people tried it.
> I have no wonder why as Z1 offers very small attractiveness when it is priced so high.



The price at Sony Ginza is EX TAX, with tax it goes to 930k.  Price at e-earphone is 830k INC TAX.  Please do your research, the fact is the price difference is almost 100k if you don't buy from Sony Store. It's actually surprising that 10 people is willing to pay the MOST expensive price to buy this unit, those are the surely the diehard fans that has more money and don't bother with price gauging.

Also there is a review on Kakaku which says his unit is serial number in the 40s, and I personally know a person with a unit with serial in 480s.  Even discounting a few stub numbers (usually the first 10 or so units are not really for sale), it's safe to say Sony shipped around 400 units @ 800-900k. So I'd say they have a good successful product on their hands again.

Waiting time for a product means nothing if you don't know the production capacity of the product. For all we know they may be making 1 unit per week which makes it so you have to wait months, doesn't mean they sold a lot. That's just common sense.


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## Zhanming057

nanaholic said:


> The price at Sony Ginza is EX TAX, with tax it goes to 930k.  Price at e-earphone is 830k INC TAX.  Please do your research, the fact is the price difference is almost 100k if you don't buy from Sony Store. It's actually surprising that 10 people is willing to pay the MOST expensive price to buy this unit, those are the surely the diehard fans that has more money and don't bother with researching.
> 
> Also there is a review on Kakaku which says his unit is serial number in the 40s, and I personally know a person with a unit with serial in 480s.  Even discounting a few stub numbers (usually the first 10 or so units are not really for sale), it's safe to say Sony shipped around 400 units @ 800-900k. So I'd say they have a good successful product on their hands again.



From what I'm getting on units sold in China/HK, I very much doubt that Sony has managed to actually sell 400 units - they may have shipped out 400 units, but most of those are either demo units or still sitting on shelves. Unless they managed to move 400 units purely inside Japan which would be almost unheard of for gear in this price range.

From what I've heard pre-sales and sales are not up to expectations from Sony China and Hong Kong dealers. Even Sony can't compete in this space if they push out a product that isn't as good as a Hugo 2/404 stack for nearly 2x the price. I'm not not a Sony fan (I am probably the first XJE-MH2 owner outside of Japan), but you can't take $3,000 worth of sound and charge $8,500 for it and expect people to line up and buy it.


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## nanaholic (Dec 23, 2018)

Zhanming057 said:


> From what I'm getting on units sold in China/HK, I very much doubt that Sony has managed to actually sell 400 units - they may have shipped out 400 units, but most of those are either demo units or still sitting on shelves. Unless they managed to move 400 units purely inside Japan which would be almost unheard of for gear in this price range.
> 
> From what I've heard pre-sales and sales are not up to expectations from Sony China and Hong Kong dealers. Even Sony can't compete in this space if they push out a product that isn't as good as a Hugo 2/404 stack for nearly 2x the price. I'm not not a Sony fan (I am probably the first XJE-MH2 owner outside of Japan), but you can't take $3,000 worth of sound and charge $8,500 for it and expect people to line up and buy it.



Shipped units to other retailers are as good as sold, as you can't return stock back to Sony. So unless Sony decides to just stock 400 units in their own warehouse gathering dust while knowing full well how many orders they had received from partners as well as internal demand (which makes no business sense at all), your argument doesn't make much sense.

OTOH from what I heard straight from Sato-san's mouth, the units sold are exceeding his expectation, so much so that HQ is planning to let him tour some Asian countries to do hand-over events to the new owners. I'll trust Sato-san's word over yours, for obvious reasons.


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## Zhanming057

nanaholic said:


> Shipped units to other retailers are as good as sold, as you can't return stock back to Sony. So unless Sony decides to just stock 400 units in their own warehouse gathering dust (which makes no business sense at all), your argument doesn't make much sense.
> 
> OTOH from what I heard straight from Sato-san's mouth, the units sold are exceeding his expectation, so much so that HQ is planning to let him tour some Asian countries to do hand-over events to the new owners. I'll trust Sato-san's word over yours, for obvious reasons.



Maybe he was referring to Japanese sales or units shipped? I'm not sure if they factored in how well retails are actually moving units.

I‘m not at liberty to say what Sony China told me about redistribution, but Beijing and HK Sony dealers have not been moving as many units as they'd prefer. I wouldn't expect Sony to have data on how fast units are going to actual customers, so it might very well be the case that dealers expected good sales and overstocked. Not Sony's issue as you mentioned, but eventually someone has to pay for them and if retailers have to offer discounts to clear stock, that's their loss on profits.

This is on top of reportedly good sales on the new IEMs and the Z7 mk2, as well as surprisingly good sales on the WM1Z, which does suggest that Sony's pricing strategy is simply way too aggressive this time. For me I might be interested in one as an all-in-one travel solution for $4,000, or maybe even $4,500 but beyond that price and I'll stick to stacking a 404 or a Xi audio Broadway.


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## PCheung

Don't know who many units sold at HK / China, fact is all 3 units at Jaben HK sold within a day 
and not much stock on the HK market now

I guest around 20 units sold in HK at launch?


----------



## Jalo

I am in Kong Kong for the holidays, went to Jaben wanting to try the  z1 but the unit is sold out including the demo unit. So I went to the Sony Show room at Sogo and was very happy that they have a demo unit for me to play.  There is a Z1R connected to the Z1 and I have my campfire Atlas and Solaris with me.  Too bad that they did not have the new Z1R in ear head phone available.  I was able to play with it for about 30 minutes so I can’t really say I can give any detail impressions at all but I did get a flavor of what it is like. Since the announcement I had thought about I might get one if it is out of this world.  Well I can say that the sound of the Z1 is very different from my WM1Z, it is not as warm and most likely due to the AKM dac. It does have a high end sound as some who have listened to it have said. As I have a 1Z so both my Atlas and Solaris are terminated with 4.4. When I say high end sound I am referring to the sound being more clean, more transparent, and more detail. Do not like the interface as much as it has only thee physical buttons and it keeps going into sleep mode and I have to awake it by pressing the play/pause button to bring up the screen may be I did not know how to operate the screen. I come away thinking that if someone like the sound presentation it will definitively worth 8 grands to them but frankly in the back of my mind I keep thinking as a desktop unit, somebody is going have to connect a bigger amp to this thing in order to drive many of the full size headphones to their potential.


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## raypin (Dec 23, 2018)

Mm...what does it matter if Sony sold 400 or 4,000 units? How do you even measure if it is a commercial success or not? Does it really matter? Whether it lives up to its promise is an individual decision. Having auditioned it for about 3 solid hours in a quiet venue (pre-production/demo unit/tentative) a couple of months ago, I say it does. All I’m sure of is 1 of those babies will be mine in the near future (pre-ordered).

I do not need a desktop reference machine. I need a reference transportable machine. DMP fits that bill.


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## Whitigir

Jalo said:


> I am in Kong Kong for the holidays, went to Jaben wanting to try the  z1 but the unit is sold out including the demo unit. So I went to the Sony Show room at Sogo and was very happy that they have a demo unit for me to play.  There is a Z1R connected to the Z1 and I have my campfire Atlas and Solaris with me.  Too bad that they did not have the new Z1R in ear head phone available.  I was able to play with it for about 30 minutes so I can’t really say I can give any detail impressions at all but I did get a flavor of what it is like. Since the announcement I had thought about I might get one if it is out of this world.  Well I can say that the sound of the Z1 is very different from my WM1Z, it is not as warm and most likely due to the AKM dac. It does have a high end sound as some who have listened to it have said. As I have a 1Z so both my Atlas and Solaris are terminated with 4.4. When I say high end sound I am referring to the sound being more clean, more transparent, and more detail. Do not like the interface as much as it has only thee physical buttons and it keeps going into sleep mode and I have to awake it by pressing the play/pause button to bring up the screen may be I did not know how to operate the screen. I come away thinking that if someone like the sound presentation it will definitively worth 8 grands to them but frankly in the back of my mind I keep thinking as a desktop unit, *somebody is going have to connect a bigger amp to this thing in order to drive many of the full size headphones to their potential.*




For this reason alone, I would pick up a dedicated desktop system instead


----------



## mrtim6

Nanaholic have you had the chance to listen to your friends Z1 with your own headphones? If so do you have any impressions.


----------



## PCheung

Jalo said:


> I am in Kong Kong for the holidays, went to Jaben wanting to try the  z1 but the unit is sold out including the demo unit. So I went to the Sony Show room at Sogo and was very happy that they have a demo unit for me to play.  There is a Z1R connected to the Z1 and I have my campfire Atlas and Solaris with me.  Too bad that they did not have the new Z1R in ear head phone available.  I was able to play with it for about 30 minutes so I can’t really say I can give any detail impressions at all but I did get a flavor of what it is like. Since the announcement I had thought about I might get one if it is out of this world.  Well I can say that the sound of the Z1 is very different from my WM1Z, it is not as warm and most likely due to the AKM dac. It does have a high end sound as some who have listened to it have said. As I have a 1Z so both my Atlas and Solaris are terminated with 4.4. When I say high end sound I am referring to the sound being more clean, more transparent, and more detail. Do not like the interface as much as it has only thee physical buttons and it keeps going into sleep mode and I have to awake it by pressing the play/pause button to bring up the screen may be I did not know how to operate the screen. I come away thinking that if someone like the sound presentation it will definitively worth 8 grands to them but frankly in the back of my mind I keep thinking as a desktop unit, somebody is going have to connect a bigger amp to this thing in order to drive many of the full size headphones to their potential.



There is a on / off button to awake , right to the knob 
Also can set the time of screen auto off  in the option menu


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## Kakki

Nanaholic, I don't know why you are making a lot of fuss about e-earphone price but please read my post again. "Sony Ginza is selling Z1 at 855k when you say e-earphone is selling it at 850k."
850k is a price you mentioned which I didn't research and now you are saying it is 830k!
Which is true? Please do your research! (Sorry I just mimicked your way of writing a post LOL)

And I see you don't care about waiting but pricing. So it is natural that you don't buy SONY product at SONY Ginza.
But it is pretty dangerous to believe that everyone thinks like you.
As I wrote, I would select Sony Ginza as I don't care about pricing but shopping experience and their service. I also know a lot of people ordered their ZX and WM1 at Sony Ginza.
So I don't understand why you can be so arrogant to think people do not select Sony Ginza. Please do your survey and bring evidence! (Sorry, I would stop mimicking you now...)

And for the serial number, what I can say is that we all don't know Sony's numbering rule.
My Chord Dave has 30XXX ... so may be it is shipped over 30,000 if I think in your way???


----------



## PCheung (Dec 25, 2018)

I guess sales at Sony Ginza store don't represents overall sales at Japan, there are Sony online shop and chain store like e-earphone, yodobashi. 

Also DMP-Z1 seems doing good at China, hard to say it is a success or fail at this moment.


----------



## nanaholic (Dec 25, 2018)

Kakki said:


> Nanaholic, I don't know why you are making a lot of fuss about e-earphone price but please read my post again. "Sony Ginza is selling Z1 at 855k when you say e-earphone is selling it at 850k."
> 850k is a price you mentioned which I didn't research and now you are saying it is 830k!
> Which is true? Please do your research! (Sorry I just mimicked your way of writing a post LOL)
> 
> ...








Price at e-earphone - note it is 830k INC tax. I took this photo a couple of days ago myself.





Price at official Sony Store - note price is 850k EX TAX. Including 8% sales tax this shoots the price all the way up to 923k.

Contrary to what you are thinking - stating facts is not being arrogant. Also if the EXACT same product is being offered cheaper elsewhere then people will tend to buy it from the cheaper store - that is simple economics theory and normal human behaviour where many businesses and economists base their operation on - not how just *I* think. So it is also a fact that using the most expensive store (and a difference of 100k no less) to gauge how well a fairly widely sold product (as you yourself has mentioned - is in stock in most places) is selling is hardly being representative, preciously for the reasons I've stated previously as many of the other stores are offering extremely generous cash back offers which Sony Ginza Store is not offering at all, anyone whom is not out there with an agenda to put down the product can see the common sense logic in this. Bring up the WM1Z or other ZX devices is not going to change that point either, as the 1Z is nowhere near the same price bracket of the Z1 here where the price difference is 100k between stores, and I think you'll be hard pressed to convince anyone that 100k yen (900USD) difference for a 800k-900k product doesn't sway most buyers under most circumstances.

Also serial numbers are not that hard to decipher - the most significant digit are not counted. In the case of DMP-Z1, the production serials begins with 5000xxxx (easily enough to verify as people began posting pictures) and increases sequentially - I have seen serials posted by Chinese owners in the high 100s, combined with the low 40s as posted by the reviewer on Kakaku and my friend's own high 400s, it's pretty safe to assume the serials are genuine and in sequential sequence. In the case of the Chord Dave it's logical enough to think it is the same. So stating that your DAVE starts at 30xxx as a single data point to disprove any point doesn't mean anything.


----------



## emrelights1973

İ did not hear this but it did not make me running for my wallet at all.... it is a hugo2 with expensive price tag...
İ think it will go down in history Books as a “not so big” failure for Sony.... 
İ own zx2, 1Z and z7 , mdr1z  almost Sony fan boy, i own the NC one as well....
shame, i was expecting something good after all good hits....


----------



## Kakki (Dec 26, 2018)

Nanaholic, your post is very amusing as you are presenting your personal opinion and calling it as a fact.
What is the fact or evidence that 100K difference can't be justified? It is just your opinion.
What is the fact or evidence that people won't buy Z1 but ZX and WM1 at SONY Ginza? it is just your opinion.

If you are really correct, no one would buy Z1 at e-earphone as e-earphone is not offering the lowest price.
And no one bought Z1 at SONY Ginza.
And no one would shop jewelry and watch in Ginza... as Ginza is where things are the most expensive in Japan.

If you are presenting your personal opinion and believing that they are fact, you are enough to be arrogant, Nanaholic.

For the serial numbers, you are once again presenting your personal guess as fact.
What is the fact or evidence that the # of units sold is nearly equal to the serial numbers?
Please provide solid evidence, not your personal opinion or guess. Hope you would not be arrogant this time.


----------



## emrelights1973

Buy hugo2 man, or better TT2, leave Ginza


----------



## Kakki

emrelights1973 said:


> Buy hugo2 man, or better TT2, leave Ginza



Thank you. Actually, I like Z1's sound signature over Hugo2 which I already have.
But I will not buy Z1 as I understood it is a big, non-portable, expensive Walkman.

WM1 / ZX were good devices... as they tried to have better sound quality while keeping Walkman's portability.
Z1 completely lost portability and became an expensive desktop system without desktop system's standard functionality, usability and sound quality.

If SONY makes an upgraded ZX300 with remote control app for smartphones, I would definitely buy one.


----------



## emrelights1973

Oh no it is not a “desktop”, it is portable but not walkman!! 

My portable dac/amp classification starts and ends with Mojo not even hugo

Used to have Magic Ray Samuel amps) they were good


----------



## Wooglish

raypin said:


> Mm...what does it matter if Sony sold 400 or 4,000 units? How do you even measure if it is a commercial success or not? Does it really matter? Whether it lives up to its promise is an individual decision. Having auditioned it for about 3 solid hours in a quiet venue (pre-production/demo unit/tentative) a couple of months ago, I say it does. All I’m sure of is 1 of those babies will be mine in the near future (pre-ordered).
> 
> I do not need a desktop reference machine. I need a reference transportable machine. DMP fits that bill.


Are there stores in the US taking pre-orders?  I signed up for updates from Sony, but have yet to see anything


----------



## raypin (Dec 27, 2018)

Mm...none that I know of. It is selling so well in Asia that Sony decided to foresake North America. Or President Trump decided to impose tariffs on Japanese goods. 

Getting cold feet. Preordered myself(Sony Asia)....or upgrade my home cinema. Those snazzy 4K laser projectors looks mighty tempting.


----------



## Peter Hyatt

raypin said:


> Mm...none that I know of. It is selling so well in Asia that Sony decided to foresake North America. Or President Trump decided to impose tariffs on Japanese goods.
> 
> Getting cold feet. Preordered myself(Sony Asia)....or upgrade my home cinema. Those snazzy 4K laser projectors looks mighty tempting.




Soft target


----------



## Soundizer

Why are there no English speaking YouTube reviews yet for the DMP-Z1?


----------



## Whitigir

Soundizer said:


> Why are there no English speaking YouTube reviews yet for the DMP-Z1?


Too expensive to buy for it purposes and practicality


----------



## Soundizer

Whitigir said:


> Too expensive to buy for it purposes and practicality



Much less than Chord Dave which has a ton of Owener YouTube reviews.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 5, 2019)

Soundizer said:


> Much less than Chord Dave which has a ton of Owener YouTube reviews.


If you read the thread, there are huge differences from DAVE to compare to Z1

For example, Dave is a full desktop DAC, and Z1 is Carriable, and then DAVE uses Pulse-Array , a patterned technology of Chord, and Z1 is using 3rd party off the shelves AK4497EQ which is predated by the newest AK4499EQ.  Chord DAVE by it own in house technology and engineering is already worth the asking price


----------



## mrtim6

I wonder if anyone has compared the new Z1 to the old sony walkman hap z1es for sound quality.

I was home briefly for Xmas & new year and had to use Spotify to please guests on nye
Luckily I was able to pay 99 cents 3 months premium so I could at least use 320 ops mp3s - I was blown away by the sound.

I rarely listen to mp3s, however the Sony juju in their DSD Re-mastering Engine that resamples compressed music files to DSD is frickin amazing.

My setup was sony hap z1es balanced - Yamaha A-S3000 amp balanced - Diatone DS 5000 4 way speakers.
Now the Diatones are very detailed and there was nothing glaring offensive with the source.


----------



## Soundizer

The guy who started this thread seems to have vanished.


----------



## Mediahound

So the Z1 doesn't seem so large to take with you when you consider only a few decades ago:


----------



## purk

Mediahound said:


> So the Z1 doesn't seem so large to take with you when you consider only a few decades ago:




Well.....then its a bargain then!


----------



## alexzogh

I had an opportunity to try the dmp-z1 at CES last week. While technically, its portable, I would use the term transportable. You can carry it between desks. 

Given its size, the screen was small. I had to use my glasses to navigate the music. Was auditioned with the Z1R headphones using a balanced cable. The guy behind the counter was surprised when I started asking very technical questions.

I can’t give any real review, given the Z1R’s are so bass heavy, they overwhelmed my critical listening. 

I didn’t take a photo of the unit, but I did of the placards for the setup.


----------



## purk (Jan 13, 2019)

alexzogh said:


> I had an opportunity to try the dmp-z1 at CES last week. While technically, its portable, I would use the term transportable. You can carry it between desks.
> 
> Given its size, the screen was small. I had to use my glasses to navigate the music. Was auditioned with the Z1R headphones using a balanced cable. The guy behind the counter was surprised when I started asking very technical questions.
> 
> ...




Would love to know what you have to say.  I agree with you that the Z1R can't be used as a critical listening tool due to its bass response.  Still it is an enjoyable headphones to listen to.  I now have the Z7 M2 and personally I like its tonal balanced better as bass quantity is more even with the other frequencies compared to that of the Z1R & Z7.  I wish its soundstage can match that of the Z1R though.


----------



## CoryGillmore

Soundizer said:


> Why are there no English speaking YouTube reviews yet for the DMP-Z1?


Same story for the IER-M9..a flagship Sony IEM and no one who speaks English has reviewed it yet...


----------



## purk

CoryGillmore said:


> Same story for the IER-M9..a flagship Sony IEM and no one who speaks English has reviewed it yet...



Just have to wait I guess.  Too many models out now...unlike a few years back.  The market is overly saturated with new phones, daps, and amps including DACs.


----------



## CoryGillmore

purk said:


> Would love to know what you have to say.  I agree with you that the Z1R can't be used as a critical listening tool due to its bass response.  Still it is an enjoyable headphones to listen to.  I now have the Z7 M2 and personally I like its tonal balanced better as bass quantity is less.  I wish its soundstage can match that of the Z1R though.


Dude you are like a god of Sony gear...that R10...oh man. 
Anyway the Z7M2 led me on the journey to aquire the IER-M9 and I couldn't be happier with the M9. I first bought the 1AM2 in early November and I loved it so much I thought I'd take a few steps up the ladder and snag a Z7M2. I loved it at first but whenever I would go from a Z7M2 session to a 1AM2 sesion I would prefer the 1AM2! I realized I preferred the intimate almost music in your head presentation of the 1AM2. Plus I just straight up preferred the bass of the 1AM2. This experience led me to belive a flagship Sony IEM would be my best bet. Initially I had my sight set on the M7, but reviews led me to belive the M9 was the more fun sound signature of the two, so that's where I ended up and I'm glad I did. Adore this IEM.


----------



## purk

CoryGillmore said:


> Dude you are like a god of Sony gear...that R10...oh man.
> Anyway the Z7M2 led me on the journey to aquire the IER-M9 and I couldn't be happier with the M9. I first bought the 1AM2 in early November and I loved it so much I thought I'd take a few steps up the ladder and snag a Z7M2. I loved it at first but whenever I would go from a Z7M2 session to a 1AM2 sesion I would prefer the 1AM2! I realized I preferred the intimate almost music in your head presentation of the 1AM2. Plus I just straight up preferred the bass of the 1AM2. This experience led me to belive a flagship Sony IEM would be my best bet. Initially I had my sight set on the M7, but reviews led me to belive the M9 was the more fun sound signature of the two, so that's where I ended up and I'm glad I did. Adore this IEM.



If you like a lot of bass, then you may want to go with the Z1R.  The Z1R has too much bass for me.  The R10 has little bass output but it can produce such wonderful and very realistic soundstage and acoustical details with vocal to die for.  If you guys think that the size of the soundstage is huge on the Z1R, it still trail those of R10, Qualia, and CD3000.


----------



## CoryGillmore

purk said:


> If you like a lot of bass, then you may want to go with the Z1R.  The Z1R has too much bass for me.  The R10 has little bass output but it can produce such wonderful and very realistic soundstage and acoustical details with vocal to die for.  If you guys think that the size of the soundstage is huge on the Z1R, it still trail those of R10, Qualia, and CD3000.


Z1R is a touch out of my price range, of course I was also saying that about the IER-M9 a week ago, they're in my ears as I type...
I was thinking maybe the MDR-Z7 would be a better fit for me? From what I hear those things are bass monsters?


----------



## Sp12er3

purk said:


> If you like a lot of bass, then you may want to go with the Z1R.  The Z1R has too much bass for me.  The R10 has little bass output but it can produce such wonderful and very realistic soundstage and acoustical details with vocal to die for.  If you guys think that the size of the soundstage is huge on the Z1R, it still trail those of R10, Qualia, and CD3000.



OH, thanks for that tidbit, hard to get impressions of those old Sony legends these days.... That's impressive, tho what I love from the Z1R is not its size per se  But more on how malleable it is, I can clearly image the actual size of the soundstage using the Z1R, whether it's narrow near field boxed recording vocals to a chamber music. (How do I call it  I can hear the room?) 

That's the first time I heard that kind of characteristics in a headphone, tho admittedly I haven't hear many TOTL gears  Esp one in good enough setup to be driven properly. 

Local meets are pretty low key here.

Pretty slow here with still no delivery of the actual product to customers, Pre Order will be fulfilled around when?


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## bmichels (Jan 31, 2019)

Redcarmoose said:


>




*A nice iPAD app (like AK Connect or Aurender's conductor) will be a much better solution* to manage the playback/search track selection and compensate for the microscopic screen.


----------



## Sp12er3 (Feb 4, 2019)

It seems popular case manufacturer Van Nuys is making A case for the DMP-Z1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Source: PotaLabo 2019
https://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=44572

When Sony came just bringing the Z1 and 'Just Ear' IEM, hahaha,...


----------



## raypin

Mm..


----------



## Whitigir

raypin said:


> Mm..


You are getting one ? That is awesome ! Can’t wait to hear your impressions !


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Feb 7, 2019)

Rob49 said:


> Thanks so much for the impressions. ( Lucky you ! )
> 
> I wonder how this compares to the Sony TA-ZH1ES ? How much better ??



I own the ZH1es. It's a great little DAC/amp but doesn't stand a chance against DMP-Z1 in the sound. I had loaner DMP-Z1 for 60 days so I got a lot of ear-time with it. Music from DMP has weight, immensely detailed without being bright or harsh, and much more power to drive demanding headphones. I am waiting for my personal DMP to ship.

This should be able to lift up DMP at an angle.


----------



## purk

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I own the ZH1es. It's a great little DAC/amp but doesn't stand a chance against DMP-Z1 in the sound. I had loaner DMP-Z1 for 60 days so I got a lot of ear-time with it. Music from DMP has weight, immensely detailed without being bright or harsh, and much more power to drive demanding headphones. I am waiting for my personal DMP to ship.
> 
> This should be able to lift up DMP at an angle.



How about more impressions?  Thanks in advance!


----------



## raypin (Feb 8, 2019)

Mm...handsome carrying case.





Serial no. 50005xx. So that means Sony has sold more than 5,000,500 DMPZ1.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 8, 2019)

Congratulation! It could also mean that Sony made 5th batches and this is the unit #5 in that 5th batch 

Looking forward to your impressions!  Also, don’t forget the potential to upgrade by modifications.  I have been thinking about this unit, Kimber Axios Silver 16cores would be a nice touché.  Then there are some many options of Silver Litz Ultrapure Cables.  Upgrade the TPA amp chips ? The Nichicon caps into blackgate or something *


----------



## raypin (Feb 8, 2019)

Mm...initial listening session (Tidal streaming):






What is this? Ferrite?





My Sony Z1R = bad combo. My Focal Utopia = very, very good combo. Heavenly.

The unit I auditioned last year had “Tentative” marking on the box. This one has none. Clearly, what I auditioned was a pre-production model, not the production model. Difference? If memory serves me right, the production model has better mid-range. Better connect with music on the emotional level.

For owners of the AK380, it is like the difference between the AK380 and AK380 copper. Latter is more engaging.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 8, 2019)

Nvm*

Enjoy , keep us up with those impressions !


----------



## Sp12er3

raypin said:


> Mm...initial listening session (Tidal streaming):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you try both balanced and unbalanced on your Z1R? Also you don't use balanced on your Utopia? I'd like to hear how it perform when compared to its unbalanced connection.


----------



## raypin (Feb 9, 2019)

Mm...not yet. Unbal for now and streaming only (Tidal). Organizing my Flac files for transfer to DMP Z1 storage. Problem is I have accumulated dozens of headphone cables for in-ears and headphones over the past 5 years, all terminated with 3.5, 6.3 and 2.5 mm. My best cables are in 2.5 mm. 4.4 mm is a gaping hole in my collection. On my Utopia, my preferred cable is the Nordost Heimdall 2, with XLR for balanced (chain is Blu Mk 2 - Dave - Mass Kobo 394 balanced XLR or, for portable fully balanced, Mass Kobo 404 with the AK 380 cu 2.5 mm balanced interconnect.

Need to rectify for 4.4 mm compatibility.

Trying my Sennheiser HD 820 now with the DMP Z1. Smoooooth and, yes, the DMP can drive it (enabled high gain on the DMP).


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I recommend using the DAC function with iPad via wired connection. Apple devices doesn't support high bandwidth BT streaming.

The best way to evaluate DMP is using the internal storage with good quality uncompressed music. TIDAL and other streaming services are for convenience, not quality.

My top headphones with DMP is Diana Phi by ABYSS, Westone W80, and Audeze LCD-i4.


----------



## Whitigir

And I want my DSD512 to be playing on it.  Is it possible ?


----------



## Uncle Monty

Can someone compare it to the TT2 + MScaler?


----------



## raypin (Feb 9, 2019)

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I recommend using the DAC function with iPad via wired connection. Apple devices doesn't support high bandwidth BT streaming.
> 
> The best way to evaluate DMP is using the internal storage with good quality uncompressed music. TIDAL and other streaming services are for convenience, not quality.
> 
> My top headphones with DMP is Diana Phi by ABYSS, Westone W80, and Audeze LCD-i4.



Mm.....my Flac and Wav files are all over. Lol! Need to hunt them down (don’t know where they are stored anymore) and decide  which goes into my DMP. Plus, since using the Chord Blu MK 2, I ve been concentrating on CDs as my primary transport/source. Now I have to rip them then transfer.


——————

OT: Hunting down good headphone cables with 4.4 mm. Axios Kimber sounds okay? 8 or 16 strands? Copper or silver? Plussound? Moon Audio? For the 820, Utopia and Z1R to start. It is like starting over again. Looking at the relevant threads for recos.....


----------



## purk

raypin said:


> Mm.....my Flac and Wav files are all over. Lol! Need to hunt them down (don’t know where they are stored anymore) and decide  which goes into my DMP. Plus, since using the Chord Blu MK 2, I ve been concentrating on CDs as my primary transport. Now I have to rip them then transfer.
> 
> 
> ——————
> ...



How about an adapter to 4.4 mm?  Make a lot more sense IMO.


----------



## raypin (Feb 9, 2019)

Mm....I have bad experience with 2.5 mm to 3.5 mm adaptors. Not really keen on adaptors. But, can you recommend a very good, reliable 2.5 mm to 4.4 mm adaptor? This is for my iems.

————————

Issue: the AK 380 cu refuses to do an AptX HD handshake with the DMP Z1. It defaults to bluetooth SBC standard. I have no such problem with the Chord Hugo 2.

Edit: just figured it out. DMP does not support AptX HD reception, only transmission.  I guess Sony wants to push their proprietary LDAC but the problem is none of the current Sony DAPs can do Tidal (eliminated it with succeeding models of the ZX2). So, Fiio looks attractive. Need Aptx HD or LDAC with offline Tidal support.


----------



## purk

@raypin 

How about Effect Audio or buy a Furutech 4.4 mm male connector and commission someone to make 2.5 mm to 4.4 mm for you.  I made my own 3.5 mm to 4.4 mm using real Pentaconn connector and it wasn't difficult at all.  Btw, effect audio 4.4 mm connector is of very high quality.


----------



## nanaholic (Feb 10, 2019)

raypin said:


> Mm....I have bad experience with 2.5 mm to 3.5 mm adaptors. Not really keen on adaptors. But, can you recommend a very good, reliable 2.5 mm to 4.4 mm adaptor? This is for my iems.
> 
> ————————
> 
> ...



aptX is also proprietary and requires paying a licensing fee to Qualcomm. Qualcomm had good penetration in the gadget world because they bundle the aptX license with their BT chipsets, so Sony are no better or worse in this regard.


----------



## raypin

Mm...found the perfect backpack from Anello, spacious enough for the DMP and a full-size headphone. Reason for buying the DMP: I need a road machine. 



 

The DMP doesn’t get warm while inside.


----------



## raypin (Feb 10, 2019)

nanaholic said:


> aptX is also proprietary and requires paying a licensing fee to Qualcomm. Qualcomm had good penetration in the gadget world because they bundle the aptX license with their BT chipsets, so Sony are no better or worse in this regard.



Mmm....yeah but at the sky-high price Sony charges for the DMP, they ought to pay Qualcomm and should be standard feature, alongside LDAC.


----------



## Whitigir

Just as long as people buy it up, Sony doesn’t need to do anything.  On another hand, at the price Sony charged for DMP-Z1, there should have been a hell lot more to it, including that above you asked


----------



## raypin

Whitigir said:


> And I want my DSD512 to be playing on it.  Is it possible ?



Mm...specs says up to DSD 256 11.2, so no joy.


----------



## nanaholic

raypin said:


> Mmm....yeah but at the sky-high price Sony charges for the DMP, they ought to pay Qualcomm and should be standard feature, alongside LDAC.



aptX requires Qualcomm approved chipsets (previously it straight up requires Qualcomm made chips, now they relaxed the requirement due preciously to competition from Sony), so it's not as straight forward as just paying that licensing fee. Again it's easy when most gadget devices uses some sort of Qualcomm SoC (especially in phones and even DAPs) so Qualcomm just essentially throws in aptX for free, but it's not the case of the DMP-Z1 which I'm certain don't use anything Qualcomm related.

It's always good to say "they should have X", but you don't know what they had going on in the background for them to come to that decision.


----------



## raypin

Mmm...yes, but the DMP supports AptX HD transmission already. Why not reception? I don’t understand the reason for this omission and the Chord Hugo 2, which cost less than a quarter of the DMP supports AptX HD reception.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Feb 11, 2019)

raypin said:


> Mm...found the perfect backpack from Anello, spacious enough for the DMP and a full-size headphone. Reason for buying the DMP: I need a road machine.
> 
> 
> 
> The DMP doesn’t get warm while inside.



Try Diana Phi with DMP-Z1. It'll blow your mind.



raypin said:


> Mmm....yeah but at the sky-high price Sony charges for the DMP, they ought to pay Qualcomm and should be standard feature, alongside LDAC.



I've used the DMP for 2 mo. and I don't think the price is high at all for the performance and convenience, mainly the performance.


----------



## Whitigir

CanJam was great! It was excellent to meet up with Sony crew, and Sato was there.

Tried the DMP-Z1 out, and it was an very impressive machine.  But my pocket is in 1 piece

My impression on it is that it is a father if the WM1Z but better.  If you want an all in 1 device with performances that surpass wm1Z and retaining Sony house sound of WM1Z, then you are in for a lot to love


----------



## Newport

Managed to audition the DMP-Z1 with the MDR/IER-Z1R recently using my own music files. Impressive...best sound out of headphone I’ve experienced todate. Guess this high performance has something to do with the all in one concept which puts desktops/separates at a disadvantage due to the connecting cables, AC & computer noise, etc. Kudos to Sony for making this headphone dream sound machine! Beautifully crafted too...a sight to behold & touch.


----------



## syke

The MDR-Z1R is really brought to life with the DMP-Z1. All my negatives of the MDR-Z1R has been rectified with the DMP-Z1.
Although it is perplexing trying to come to terms what "features" are included at that price... But if one just put that aside, and focus on the end result which is SQ... It is awesome.


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> CanJam was great! It was excellent to meet up with Sony crew, and Sato was there.
> 
> Tried the DMP-Z1 out, and it was an very impressive machine.  But my pocket is in 1 piece
> 
> My impression on it is that it is a father if the WM1Z but better.  If you want an all in 1 device with performances that surpass wm1Z and retaining Sony house sound of WM1Z, then you are in for a lot to love



How about a quick comparison with your beloved SuSy Mini Dynalo?


----------



## raypin (Feb 18, 2019)

Mm....oh hello there, big brother....






Both exquisite machines.......just got the hard to get Nordost Heimdall 2 XLR to 4.4 mm adaptor from a Taipei vendor. Now, I can listen to balanced DMP. My Z1R is finally listenable.

Edit: out of the unbal, the Z1R sounded ordinary. The bal output made the Z1R earn its badge as a high-quality headphones; better dynamics, better instrument separation and the bass quality is noticeably improved. Put another way, the Z1R scales up depending on what is driving it. I listened mostly to audiophile vocals and guitar music (Chesky Records Guitar Collection). Timbre is spot-on.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 18, 2019)

purk said:


> How about a quick comparison with your beloved SuSy Mini Dynalo?



Disclaimer:  This is my post in respond to @purk .  We all hear different, and this is music and sound quality as a subjective hobby.  So this is just pure opinion and how I personally perceive the Z1


I guess I can do that since DMP Z1 is an all in one, and my Mini SuSy Dynalo is like Mini GSX that people soon will be able to buy from Headamp.

Pros: the Z1 is an all in one, can be transportable.  Very cool to the touch and can run on both battery or AC

Cons: The Z1 is so expensive and the Mini GSX/Dynalo will be very affordable in comparison.  Mini Dynalo can only run on AC.  Even when Z1 can run on battery, I dont think carrying it in a suitcase and pulling it out to do some controlling is a good idea as I wouldnt be able to stand the idea of dropping it.  Under this impression, both Mini Dynalo and Z1 are just as transportable.  You can bring them both around from office and to home.

DMP Z1 is very cool to the touch, and Mini Dynalo can be very hot after 30 minutes or more.  I run high current bias, the Mini GSX may be cooler

Another Con is that Mini Dynalo need a good DAP to act as a source and analog input.  Most of the top of the line current DAP can do it just fine (with different sound signature of your choice), all u need is a cable to do the interconnect job.....you can also have WM1Z and Mini-Dynalo, and this is like your own DMP-Z1 with better flexibility, or so I would think (May even outperform it in a sense)

* Sound quality *

Z1 is very powerful, it can drive Hd800S with breeze even on low-gain.  It sound signature is like WM1Z but with more power, separation and layering

The Mini Dynalo while is being miniaturized, it is a full blown discrete desktop architecture with fully differentiated balanced in and balanced out.  Needless to say that in AC mode, both are running switching power supply.  The Z1 can run on battery alone, and I didnt have the chance to try this mode.  Anyways, it wouldnt magically bring the soundstage into The “X” factor that would Wow you.  Don’t take me wrong though, the Z1 would bring you the “WOW” moment, and the statement “This is the best I have heard yet out of Portable player”.  For sure, the WM1Z is good , and to have something better ? Ofcourse.

However, the Mini-Dynalo is different.  It would “WOW’ you even if you have other desktop systems already.  It has vastly expansive soundstage, details retrieval, and layering with the clarity and transparency that would compete toward high-end systems, and not just only mid-tier desktop system.

My goal for this CanJam trip were to explore and see if WM1Z could replace my system, which is a built PC with Linear Power Supply and Mini-Dynalo.  As good as Mini-Dynalo is, there are even better amplifier, and I am not talking about “pricing being a mark to just judge the performances”.  But in order to outperform Mini-Dynalo, one would need to carefully pair and match other top of the line amps, gears, sources  in order to achieve it.  So, with that in mind, if WM1Z were to be able to replace my desktop, then I would have grabbed it. 

I ended up keeping my Mini-Dynalo, being compact, transportable, and flexibility to take in any sources with the performances to hang out in high-end segment .  Now, if I was a crazy Sony fan, and would collect their product, maybe lower price would be attractive for the trigger.


----------



## tumpux

Which mini dynalo are you referring to anyway?


----------



## raypin

Mm...there’s a thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kev...ynahi-dynamite-nomenclature-explained.137390/


----------



## Whitigir

tumpux said:


> Which mini dynalo are you referring to anyway?





raypin said:


> Mm...there’s a thread:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kev...ynahi-dynamite-nomenclature-explained.137390/



This is more like it

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-amp-from-headamp-gs-x-mini.883745/


----------



## afreekindazone

syke said:


> The MDR-Z1R is really brought to life with the DMP-Z1. All my negatives of the MDR-Z1R has been rectified with the DMP-Z1.
> .



Did you tried the Z1R on TA-ZH1ES feed by the WM1Z?


----------



## raypin

Mm...I think the Woo Audio guy compared the DMP Z1 with the TAZ1es. Go to post # 627.


----------



## syke

afreekindazone said:


> Did you tried the Z1R on TA-ZH1ES feed by the WM1Z?



Most definitely. They are on my desk. They are put to use everyday.

The DMP+Z1R combo is awesome. But is it worth your money? That's for you to decide.


----------



## afreekindazone

syke said:


> Most definitely. They are on my desk. They are put to use everyday.
> 
> The DMP+Z1R combo is awesome. But is it worth your money? That's for you to decide.



Too much for me, I would go with the TA-ZH1ES but is there a huge difference compare to the DMP?


----------



## afreekindazone

raypin said:


> Mm...I think the Woo Audio guy compared the DMP Z1 with the TAZ1es. Go to post # 627.



Thanks, I read it but too vague and subjective. I need a more detailed comparison as the price gap is too huge to ignore. What can be heard on the DMP but not on the TA-ZH1ES? I have a deep experience with the Hugo 2 and TT v1, if someone have or heard them, does the DMP kill both?


----------



## syke

afreekindazone said:


> Too much for me, I would go with the TA-ZH1ES but is there a huge difference compare to the DMP?



Huge enough for me. My issue with TA+Z1R is the mid range/vocals tend to be distant. Resulting in a very V like shape response. For sure it's very relaxed and smooth sounding but not engaging enough for certain genes. Which sometimes leaves me wanting more and having to turn up the volume more then I should.

The DMP rectifies this issue amongst others. 

It might be fine for you, and you might not need it for your genre of music, so it's best that you do an extensive demo.


----------



## buzzlulu

syke said:


> Huge enough for me. My issue with TA+Z1R is the mid range/vocals tend to be distant. Resulting in a very V like shape response. For sure it's very relaxed and smooth sounding but not engaging enough for certain genes. Which sometimes leaves me wanting more and having to turn up the volume more then I should.
> 
> The DMP rectifies this issue amongst others.
> 
> It might be fine for you, and you might not need it for your genre of music, so it's best that you do an extensive demo.



Similar impressions with the TA.  A bit too relaxed and laid back for me.  I sold mine (I bought it just to play around with anyway) and am using the 1Z by itself.

I heard the DMP at Can Jam.  It was quite nice.  $8K?  At that price there are many other combinations one can look at.

The screen is also way too small


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 19, 2019)

buzzlulu said:


> Similar impressions with the TA.  A bit too relaxed and laid back for me.  I sold mine (I bought it just to play around with anyway) and am using the 1Z by itself.
> 
> I heard the DMP at Can Jam.  It was quite nice.  $8K?  At that price there are many other combinations one can look at.
> 
> The screen is also way too small



Agreed! I was going to build a Linear Powersupply for DMP Z1 to use AC main and battery was to be preserved, if...and if...the DMP Z1 could replace my desktop.  I had many plans....But sadly, may be the Z2 will.  I didn’t know you were there, I was there Saturday


----------



## raypin (Feb 19, 2019)

buzzlulu said:


> Similar impressions with the TA.  A bit too relaxed and laid back for me.  I sold mine (I bought it just to play around with anyway) and am using the 1Z by itself.
> 
> I heard the DMP at Can Jam.  It was quite nice.  $8K?  At that price there are many other combinations one can look at.
> 
> The screen is also way too small



Mm..I am too busy listening to beautiful music than be bothered with the smallish screen. In fact, while driving, all I care about is put the DMP on shuffle mode and instinctively know where to reach the buttons that matters the most:  previous track, play/pause and next track. All without looking down.

What I want from Sony is an iOS app to control the DMP since my iPhone is more accessible (while driving or listening in a static location). Just like with my Cocktail Audio X40 music server/streamer/ripper. It has a functional  (but terrible UI) app installed on my iOS devices....makes track selection so much easier.

Besides, a huge screen will serve what purpose? Look at the pretty album or song cover? Battery hog?

A remote is more useful. It is actually a glaring omission. My Sony PCM D100 (high quality recorder but has a kickass playback suitable for iems and a forever DAP since it can use Eneloops) has a remote.

User feedback.


----------



## Newport

Article from the Hong Kong show report (translated from Chinese) on why the small screen, etc

https://translate.googleusercontent...700248&usg=ALkJrhjGGvMV-_G7q3DwUgwklA7vka2uxQ


The Sony USA website interview with the designers. Interesting info on the final choice of the volume control after testing several prototypes.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/dmp-z1-interview


----------



## Whitigir

Newport said:


> Article from the Hong Kong show report (translated from Chinese) on why the small screen, etc
> 
> https://translate.googleusercontent...700248&usg=ALkJrhjGGvMV-_G7q3DwUgwklA7vka2uxQ
> 
> ...



Actually, screen can generate noises, and the smaller is the better.  I don’t mind that screen at all.  But as @buzzlulu other impressions, at the $8k price point, there are many other choices.  Also, here in the US, it is a crime to drive and listen to headphones LOL


----------



## nanaholic (Feb 19, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> Actually, screen can generate noises, and the smaller is the better.  I don’t mind that screen at all.  But as @buzzlulu other impressions, at the $8k price point, there are many other choices.  Also, here in the US, it is a crime to drive and listen to headphones LOL



There aren't that many choices actually, because hardly any of the alternatives are an all-in-one self-contained device like the DMP-Z1.

Granted that's a very particular niche for someone that must have everything packed into a nice single transportable package, but for someone whom is looking especially for that all in one aspect then to say there are many other choices is not technically correct either. Of course if you remove that particular aspect then the choices does broaden significantly, but then it is not exactly an apple to apple comparison either. It's like when someone says they want a gaming laptop and are willing to pay X dollars, and you then throw them a list of desktops for less than X dollars and say why would you buy a laptop when you can get better performance from a desktop custom PC for less and completely ignoring that person is asking for a laptop because they have to move it around frequently. It's not a valid comparison nor a worthwhile recommendation you are making.


----------



## syke

raypin said:


> Mm..I am too busy listening to beautiful music than be bothered with the smallish screen. In fact, while driving, all I care about is put the DMP on shuffle mode and instinctively know where to reach the buttons that matters the most:  previous track, play/pause and next track. All without looking down.
> 
> What I want from Sony is an iOS app to control the DMP since my iPhone is more accessible (while driving or listening in a static location). Just like with my Cocktail Audio X40 music server/streamer/ripper. It has a functional  (but terrible UI) app installed on my iOS devices....makes track selection so much easier.
> 
> ...



iOS app control will be coming soon... At least from what I have gathered through the grapevine.


----------



## syke (Feb 19, 2019)

buzzlulu said:


> Similar impressions with the TA.  A bit too relaxed and laid back for me.  I sold mine (I bought it just to play around with anyway) and am using the 1Z by itself.
> 
> I heard the DMP at Can Jam.  It was quite nice.  $8K?  At that price there are many other combinations one can look at.
> 
> The screen is also way too small



Amazing prices in the U.S. Can't imagine what the folks in Europe will have to fork out for one.
The street prices in Hong Kong are so much lower, and I do mean so much lower... I bet sentiments here will vastly change, if you have access such prices.

Well, at least you get cheap gas prices. You win some, you lose some.


----------



## syke (Feb 19, 2019)

buzzlulu said:


> Similar impressions with the TA.  A bit too relaxed and laid back for me.  I sold mine (I bought it just to play around with anyway) and am using the 1Z by itself.



Don't get me wrong, the TA, per se, isn't bad.
It really depends on your preferred sound signature.

I do listen to the Z1R with the 1Z when I need forward sounding mids. But for pretty much everything else, the TA performs better than the 1Z.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Feb 19, 2019)

syke said:


> Don't get me wrong, the TA, per se, isn't bad.
> It really depends on your preferred sound signature.
> 
> I do listen to the Z1R with the 1Z when I need forward sounding mids. But for pretty much everything else, the TA performs better than the 1Z.


I find the TA comes off clearer than the 1Z, with imaging a little more nailed down. It’s laid back where the 1Z has that slight treble spike. But your also noticing the mids are different? They probably are, though I don’t concentrate on them? It maybe is genre dependent on if someone would stay happy with the TA. I only use two headphones with it and a handful of IEMs and for me it’s fine. But I totally can see how the TA could be too laid-back for some. Amazingly the Kimber changed the feeling you get with the Z1R and Z7. I hate to say it but that simple cable did so much in my uses; where it seemed to bring it all together.

This product is beautiful for what it is, and I totally get what they are after. It’s the 1Z team taking new ideas to their logical end place in technology. It has a wonderful unbridled flair, a high school science project aspect about it. Still a little rich for my blood. I hope the folks enjoy their’s they are super cool!


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 19, 2019)

nanaholic said:


> There aren't that many choices actually, because hardly any of the alternatives are an all-in-one self-contained device like the DMP-Z1.
> 
> Granted that's a very particular niche for someone that must have everything packed into a nice single transportable package, but for someone whom is looking especially for that all in one aspect then to say there are many other choices is not technically correct either. Of course if you remove that particular aspect then the choices does broaden significantly, but then it is not exactly an apple to apple comparison either. It's like when someone says they want a gaming laptop and are willing to pay X dollars, and you then throw them a list of desktops for less than X dollars and say why would you buy a laptop when you can get better performance from a desktop custom PC for less and completely ignoring that person is asking for a laptop because they have to move it around frequently. It's not a valid comparison nor a worthwhile recommendation you are making.



I know what you meant, and you are right, so no debate here.  The DMP-Z1 is easily the best of portable device that can be at the moment as I said before, if you don’t mind the not so carriable size and weight, but you don’t also want to haggle with a desktop with other stuff to tinker with.  The only one of it kind ATM

The post you quoted me, simply I was just agreeing with @buzzlulu as both of us are also into different stuff and not only portable.  We know there are better to be had and achieved at the same given price point, and that was simply it


----------



## buzzlulu

syke said:


> Amazing prices in the U.S. Can't imagine what the folks in Europe will have to fork out for one.
> The street prices in Hong Kong are so much lower, and I do mean so much lower... I bet sentiments here will vastly change, if you have access such prices.
> 
> Well, at least you get cheap gas prices. You win some, you lose some.



Out of curiosity what are the street prices on HK? For those who really want one there are obviously the obvious Japan buying services


----------



## syke

buzzlulu said:


> Out of curiosity what are the street prices on HK? For those who really want one there are obviously the obvious Japan buying services


PM you


----------



## buzzlulu

Speaking as someone who has the 1Z, had the TA, and currently runs the Z1R and Utopia both with Axios cables, I was BLOWN away at the HeadAmp booth listening to their new GSX Mini amp which was fronting the new Mytek Brooklyn Bridge DAC amp.  The "Bridge" is their Brooklyn + desktop DAC/Amp with enhanced features.

A seriously incredible piece.  If you look at the CANJAM impressions thread a few people are mentioning the Mytek pieces.  The Brooklyn+ is the same price as the TA.  I know which one I would buy


----------



## raypin (Feb 19, 2019)

syke said:


> Amazing prices in the U.S. Can't imagine what the folks in Europe will have to fork out for one.
> The street prices in Hong Kong are so much lower, and I do mean so much lower... I bet sentiments here will vastly change, if you have access such prices.
> 
> Well, at least you get cheap gas prices. You win some, you lose some.



Ot; Mm....I never pay full retail (almost never) except for the HE 1. But HK is duty-free/No VAT/No sales tax.

About driving, Open back HPs or in-ears like the iSine 10 = like listening to car stereo (to maintain situational awareness) and I pause the DMP or other players whenever the situation calls for it. Long stretches of highway is perfect for headphone listening. City driving, not so much.


----------



## Ricky64

buzzlulu said:


> Speaking as someone who has the 1Z, had the TA, and currently runs the Z1R and Utopia both with Axios cables, I was BLOWN away at the HeadAmp booth listening to their new GSX Mini amp which was fronting the new Mytek Brooklyn Bridge DAC amp.  The "Bridge" is their Brooklyn + desktop DAC/Amp with enhanced features.
> 
> A seriously incredible piece.  If you look at the CANJAM impressions thread a few people are mentioning the Mytek pieces.  The Brooklyn+ is the same price as the TA.  I know which one I would buy


Did you listen at all directly out of the Mytek?
Thx


----------



## Sp12er3 (Feb 19, 2019)

raypin said:


> Mm....oh hello there, big brother....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL what did you use to cover the volume knob there~? Did the Golden shininess mess too much with the lens?
Anyway, goddamn endgame setup bud, congratz~

About driving while listening to headphone, I bet you'll be one of those people that'd be fi st in line to get a level 4 self driving cars...


----------



## buzzlulu

Ricky64 said:


> Did you listen at all directly out of the Mytek?
> Thx



Briefly
Not bad - obviously with the HeadAmp much better


----------



## raypin (Feb 19, 2019)

Sp12er3 said:


> LOL what did you use to cover the volume knob there~? Did the Golden shininess mess too much with the lens?
> Anyway, goddamn endgame setup bud, congratz~
> 
> About driving while listening to headphone, I bet you'll be one of those people that'd be fi st in line to get a level 4 self driving cars...



Mm....grabbed the nearest rubber from my nightstand............a balloon from a party sometime ago. The golden knob is shiny. Shiny means scratches. This thing has so many micro abrasions even though I ve been very careful. P

Last week, I missed my highway exit by around 4 miles (it was near midnight)  because I was such in a good mood. The culprit: the Shure KSE 1500. Still one of the top iems.


----------



## Sp12er3

Actually, to avoid that same incident, a Tesla is enough, they know when and where to exit highway at least.


----------



## nanaholic (Feb 20, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> I know what you meant, and you are right, so no debate here.  The DMP-Z1 is easily the best of portable device that can be at the moment as I said before, if you don’t mind the not so carriable size and weight, but you don’t also want to haggle with a desktop with other stuff to tinker with.  The only one of it kind ATM
> 
> The post you quoted me, simply I was just agreeing with @buzzlulu as both of us are also into different stuff and not only portable.  We know there are better to be had and achieved at the same given price point, and that was simply it



I'm not really disagreeing with you or buzzlulu either - if you don't need an all-in-one device, then yes you can get better sound for less, I'm just pointing out that if you remove the all-in-one aspect - which is easily one if not THE biggest feature of the DMP-Z1 that any potential buyers would take note of - then it's no longer a valid comparison.

I suspect anyone whom is interested in the DMP-Z1 must at least have an eye on that "one box" aspect as a necessary requirement, if not they would've already looked elsewhere. So much so that I would go out on a limb and say that should probably be anyone's starting point when looking at the DMP-Z1 - are you really wanting that one box solution or you are open to spend time mixing multiple components to get equal or better results? If you don't need one box, then just move on.

Also from talking with Sato-san, he carries his DMP-Z1 in the prototype Van Nuys sling bag paired with the special DMP-Z1 tuned Just ear and commutes from his home in Chiba to central Tokyo everyday on the Tsukuba Express line. I teased him and said maybe this thing is portable after all and he laughed while saying carryin 3kg (with the WM1Z in the bag too for good measure) is good exercise.


----------



## thanatosguan

syke said:


> PM you


Curious as to the HK street prices as well. Would you mind PMing me as well? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Peter Hyatt (Feb 24, 2019)

Edit


----------



## rtjoa

syke said:


> PM you


Please PM me as well. Thanks


----------



## nanaholic

So this got delivered to my house today....



 

Works wonderfully well with the Focal Clear, don't even need to go past 11 o'clock. So far puts out the familiar Clear sound that I get with the Hugo 2, perhaps with a touch more bottom end. I really wish I had my MDR-Z1R with me because I was really blown away at the show with that combo but alas it's in a different country at the moment. 



 

The first time I saw the DMP-Z1 as well as talking with both Sato-sans I already know it was well made and crafted with great care, but putting it side by side with the Hugo 2 the difference is enormous, it seriously makes the Hugo 2 look poorly put together with the huge seam which doesn't quite line up, whereas the DMP-Z1 is just so beautifully designed and put together that it is a show piece all by itself.  



 

DMP-Z1 with my fully custom tuned Just ear MH1 - the best of the best from Sony.

There's really not much point to talk about the sound at this point, as like the Walkmans the DMP-Z1 will need at least 200 hours of run time before the OS caps will settle into their optimum operating state, so any impressions now is not going to be representative. Revisiting this after the run-in would be necessary. 

Sound aside, I was seriously debating between this or the Hugo TT2 + M-Scaler combo over several months as I've tried both setups numerous times at shops and trade shows, but as I've emphasised numerous times before already, I have an eye for the "all-in-one box" solution as I've been frequently moving across countries in the past year, so the stationary and bigger desktop systems simply will not fit my lifestyle, not to mention the Hugo TT2 + M-Scaler combo costs MORE than the DMP-Z1, and that's not even factoring in preparing a clean USB source for it as well as the interconnects. A one box solution lets me enjoy music more and fiddle less - MUCH LESS - and this is extremely attractive and is worth the price of admission. Not to mention it integrates nicely with all my gear which are now all 4.4mm ready, as well as being able to use the same syncing software as the Walkman so I was up and running in next to no time with the exact same playlists and contents as my 1Z Walkman. Sometimes the convenience and seamless integration *is* worth the money, and not just the sound.


----------



## Whitigir

I call for upgrade to usb cables 

Congratulation on the wonderful device


----------



## Ricky64

Can someone share a retail shop in Japan that has these units in stock, and ships internationally?
Thanks


----------



## nanaholic

Ricky64 said:


> Can someone share a retail shop in Japan that has these units in stock, and ships internationally?
> Thanks



No one will ship internationally, you'll need to go through a proxy.


----------



## thanatosguan

nanaholic said:


> So this got delivered to my house today....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Congratulations on receiving such a beauty.

I was really not interested in DMP-Z1 at first, dismissing it as an insane product with zero Sony genes in it... mostly due to its DAC chips being AKM instead of in-house. Admittedly there's more to a dac/amp product than the DAC chip.

But now I'm getting more interested in it... planning to audition it this weekend. I'm looking for an all-in-one solution as well since I don't want to deal with the hassle of maintaining a full fledged home system. (Mainly i don't want to dust that thing)


----------



## nanaholic

thanatosguan said:


> Congratulations on receiving such a beauty.
> 
> I was really not interested in DMP-Z1 at first, dismissing it as an insane product with zero Sony genes in it... mostly due to its DAC chips being AKM instead of in-house. Admittedly there's more to a dac/amp product than the DAC chip.
> 
> But now I'm getting more interested in it... planning to audition it this weekend. I'm looking for an all-in-one solution as well since I don't want to deal with the hassle of maintaining a full fledged home system. (Mainly i don't want to dust that thing)



I completely understand the "zero Sony DNA" angle, as at first when Sato-san told me they aren't using the S-Master chip it was exactly the same reaction I had. However the more I get to talk with Sato-san and Sony engineers, getting more hands on and even touch and examine the PCBs and the custom Alps RK501, and of course getting more ear time, the more I can appreciate the passion which had gone into the product. And of course, the change in lifestyle also has a huge impact on my decision. Under different circumstances, I would most probably have bought the M-scaler first and then eventually trade my Hugo 2 for the TT2.




 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think one of the major turning points was last year at PortaFes where I had the opportunity to handle and examine each of the components separately and look at how it was put together. That's the point where it really clicked with me.


----------



## purk

I have been using the RK50 for over 6 years now and that thing is an amazing piece of engineering.  I paid $650 for my DIY T2  and I believe price has gone up since then.  @nanaholic, congratulations on acquiring the Z1.


----------



## formyears

nanaholic said:


> I completely understand the "zero Sony DNA" angle, as at first when Sato-san told me they aren't using the S-Master chip it was exactly the same reaction I had. However the more I get to talk with Sato-san and Sony engineers, getting more hands on and even touch and examine the PCBs and the custom Alps RK501, and of course getting more ear time, the more I can appreciate the passion which had gone into the product. And of course, the change in lifestyle also has a huge impact on my decision. Under different circumstances, I would most probably have bought the M-scaler first and then eventually trade my Hugo 2 for the TT2.
> 
> 
> 
> I think one of the major turning points was last year at PortaFes where I had the opportunity to handle and examine each of the components separately and look at how it was put together. That's the point where it really clicked with me.


ps great photography there.  amplifies the engineering and build quality.


----------



## hamhamhamsta

syke said:


> PM you


Please PM me as well. Thanks


----------



## thanatosguan

nanaholic said:


> I completely understand the "zero Sony DNA" angle, as at first when Sato-san told me they aren't using the S-Master chip it was exactly the same reaction I had. However the more I get to talk with Sato-san and Sony engineers, getting more hands on and even touch and examine the PCBs and the custom Alps RK501, and of course getting more ear time, the more I can appreciate the passion which had gone into the product. And of course, the change in lifestyle also has a huge impact on my decision. Under different circumstances, I would most probably have bought the M-scaler first and then eventually trade my Hugo 2 for the TT2.
> 
> 
> 
> I think one of the major turning points was last year at PortaFes where I had the opportunity to handle and examine each of the components separately and look at how it was put together. That's the point where it really clicked with me.



On that ALPS RK501... there's been pictures floating around on that copper shell falling off revealing bunch of plastics inside haha

I understand it wouldn't be practical to use all metal for electronic component that's going to be subject to touch. 

But did the engineers ever tell you why the outer shell of the volume knob contributed to sound quality? I'm rather curious as to why.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 23, 2019)

thanatosguan said:


> On that ALPS RK501... there's been pictures floating around on that copper shell falling off revealing bunch of plastics inside haha
> 
> I understand it wouldn't be practical to use all metal for electronic component that's going to be subject to touch.
> 
> But did the engineers ever tell you why the outer shell of the volume knob contributed to sound quality? I'm rather curious as to why.



Not sure about the knob, but the shell does, yeah.

1/ the shells is like a ground, and electricity always drain to the closest ground

2/ the shells materials can be a shield, blocking interferences, and or absorbing interferences

RK-50 has been using Brass and gold plating body since forever.  The one used on DMP-Z1 is as stated by Sony, a special order.  Not sure what it is special about...maybe instead of brass, it is copper gold plating shells

I am all about using the best quality and components for the stuff.  But, from my point of view, there are a lot of empty spaces on the board

Then again, I would...buy the Z1 and build a portable dual rail Linear power supply to use AC main when there is AC main, instead of the stock switching DC one.  But I ended up not grabbing it


----------



## formyears

Whitigir said:


> Not sure about the knob, but the shell does, yeah.
> 
> 1/ the shells is like a ground, and electricity always drain to the closest ground
> 
> ...


obv, the empty spaces on circuit cards are for increasing the area thus decreasing the resonant frequencies and increasing its real estate market value. haha?


----------



## nanaholic (Feb 23, 2019)

thanatosguan said:


> On that ALPS RK501... there's been pictures floating around on that copper shell falling off revealing bunch of plastics inside haha
> 
> I understand it wouldn't be practical to use all metal for electronic component that's going to be subject to touch.
> 
> But did the engineers ever tell you why the outer shell of the volume knob contributed to sound quality? I'm rather curious as to why.



That’s a silly picture posted by people who don’t know how the knob is put together.

This is what the ALPS RK501 looks l like:





In the DMP-Z1 the centre thin turning rod sticks out of the chassis while the body is embedded inside the device. The supposed cap which fell off is not part of the RK501. Now to connect the outside volume knob cap to the centre turning rod the usual method is to drill a screw hole in the outside cap and into the centre turning rod and screw the two pieces together, however in the DMP-Z1 the designer had decided to make the cap completely seamless so when you touch it you won't feel a screw hole, and to achieve this they first mounted a plastic base on the rod (it's plastic because you want it to be an insulator so it doesn't interact with the actual RK501 knob to change its characteristic as this is a pure analogue component), and then they glue the outside gold plated cap onto this plastic base. This is exactly how it should be done and making fun of it just shows a lack of understanding of how things are put together.



Whitigir said:


> Not sure about the knob, but the shell does, yeah.
> 
> 1/ the shells is like a ground, and electricity always drain to the closest ground
> 
> ...



The RK501 in the DMP-Z1 is a brass body, coated in copper, then coated in gold. So it is completely unique to the DMP-Z1 and not an off the shelf part.

Also speaking as an electrical engineer, the space in the components in the DMP-Z1 shows Sony's "cost is of no concern" approach in the DMP-Z1 rather than corners being cut. Electrical engineers likes to pack as many components in the smallest space possible is a result of maximising space efficiency and reducing production cost - this is because a smaller PCB is cheaper to make and that the smaller the PCB the shorter you can make the copper tracks which means production cost is reduce. An electrical engineer being able to make a smaller PCB means he is a master of cost saving and a master of space efficiency. However if you think back to high school science you would also know that a moving electric current generates a magnetic field, which means when exposed copper tracks and components are placed closed together they will be subjected to nearby interference, and to guard against these interference you either put in shielding, but since this isn't possible with exposed copper tracks on the PCB so putting plain old space between the components such that propagation loss reduces the effects of such interference. And obviously this is how the DMP-Z1 does it. This is most definitely a feature and not a bug.


----------



## thanatosguan

nanaholic said:


> That’s a silly picture posted by people who don’t know how the knob is put together.
> 
> This is what the ALPS RK501 looks l like:
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for this clarification. Felt really stupid for thinking the outer shell is part of the RK501. I was thinking "if the gold coating was so important, wouldn't daily use alter its sound characteristics by exposing it". Now it all makes sense.


----------



## formyears

nanaholic said:


> That’s a silly picture posted by people who don’t know how the knob is put together.
> 
> This is what the ALPS RK501 looks l like:
> 
> ...


agree. well said.
EE who works in a vacuum. i mean outer space.  in a clean room ...


----------



## Whitigir

I will leave the EE discussion aside.....but the DMP-Z1 cand definitely be built better with those large spaces and price point, and that is from my technical standpoint 

Anyways, there gotta be room for the next successor , isn’t it 

Modifications can always be done


----------



## formyears

Whitigir said:


> I will leave the EE discussion aside.....but the DMP-Z1 cand definitely be built better with those large spaces and price point, and that is from my technical standpoint
> 
> Anyways, there gotta be room for the next successor , isn’t it
> 
> Modifications can always be done


esp price.


----------



## formyears

can only hope when my ta1z wears out. the next model will not be 10k


----------



## nanaholic (Feb 23, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> I will leave the EE discussion aside.....but the DMP-Z1 cand definitely be built better with those large spaces and price point, and that is from my technical standpoint



I'll be interested to hear what your technical view on the space usage is that is somehow also not related to EE, because the EE view here is also directly related to the sound quality angle (less interference = a cleaner path thus a cleaner signal), so it can't be about sound quality either.....


----------



## purk

formyears said:


> can only hope when my ta1z wears out. the next model will not be 10k



At this rate, 10K or 12K will be very likely.  Give me my Stax SR-009 + SRM-D10 for my portable rig...thank you.


----------



## Whitigir

formyears said:


> can only hope when my ta1z wears out. the next model will not be 10k





purk said:


> At this rate, 10K or 12K will be very likely.  Give me my Stax SR-009 + SRM-D10 for my portable rig...thank you.


You better believe it


----------



## thanatosguan

formyears said:


> can only hope when my ta1z wears out. the next model will not be 10k


what is the ta1z?


----------



## bmichels

I know I repeat myself, but... I still will be interested buying the DMP-Z1 only when Sony will provide an iPAD App to manage the playback. Something like the conductor's app of my Aurender that is awesome and easy to use.  I still can't imagine managing + 1Tb of music through such a small screen !  

 There is room for improvement for a new version as you say...


----------



## thanatosguan

bmichels said:


> I know I repeat myself, but... I still will be interested buying the DMP-Z1 only when Sony will provide an iPAD App to manage the playback. Something like the conductor's app of my Aurender that is awesome and easy to use.  I still can't imagine managing + 1Tb of music through such a small screen !
> 
> There is room for improvement for a new version as you say...


If you're not too worried about the transportable aspect, HAP-S1 might be more fitting for you.

It's got an HDD for storage and a remote control app that you can use on your smartphone / tablet.

HDD is easily upgradable to bigger specifications.


----------



## bmichels

thanatosguan said:


> If you're not too worried about the transportable aspect, HAP-S1 might be more fitting for you.
> 
> It's got an HDD for storage and a remote control app that you can use on your smartphone / tablet.
> 
> HDD is easily upgradable to bigger specifications.



thanks for the advice, but I need portability.  For home I already have an Aurender + Denafrip DAC.


----------



## formyears

thanatosguan said:


> what is the ta1z?


sony ta zh1es too many odd letters


----------



## formyears (Feb 23, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> You better believe it


it will be 500 extra for black (like the stax srm t8000 is now, and mine is grey or gray; forgot which was cheaper)


----------



## HiFiGuy528

afreekindazone said:


> Did you tried the Z1R on TA-ZH1ES feed by the WM1Z?



ZH1es sounds thin and weightless (even with Westone W80 IEM) compared to DMP. ZH1es is a great amp/dac but it doesn't remotely compare to the sound of DMP.



syke said:


> iOS app control will be coming soon... At least from what I have gathered through the grapevine.



How? there's no WiFi on DMP.


----------



## bmichels

HiFiGuy528 said:


> ZH1es sounds thin and weightless (even with Westone W80 IEM) compared to DMP. ZH1es is a great amp/dac but it doesn't remotely compare to the sound of DMP.
> 
> 
> 
> How? there's no WiFi on DMP.




May be by BlueTooth ?   An iPad app will be a very good news....


----------



## Kakki

nanaholic said:


> That’s a silly picture posted by people who don’t know how the knob is put together.
> 
> This is what the ALPS RK501 looks l like:
> 
> ...



So why are they using ICs for DAC and amplifier that are the 2 most essential components in a DAP? ICs are full of transistors, resistors and caps in minimum space interfering each other. They are highly imperfect too, as all the components and tracks are made from silicon etching.
SONY used to use discrete DAC and amplifier for the flagship products and was stating that ICs were inferior to discrete. And some of the companies are still using discrete DAC and amplifier for mobile products for the maximum sound quality.
According to your explanation, SONY now became the master of cost saving and space efficiency?


----------



## Whitigir

Kakki said:


> So why are they using ICs for DAC and amplifier that are the 2 most essential components in a DAP? ICs are full of transistors, resistors and caps in minimum space interfering each other. They are highly imperfect too, as all the components and tracks are made from silicon etching.
> SONY used to use discrete DAC and amplifier for the flagship products and was stating that ICs were inferior to discrete. And some of the companies are still using discrete DAC and amplifier for mobile products for the maximum sound quality.
> According to your explanation, SONY now became the master of cost saving and space efficiency?



Wasn’t Sony the first to introduce discrete S-Master for 32 bits back In the 90s ?


----------



## Kakki

Whitigir said:


> Wasn’t Sony the first to introduce discrete S-Master for 32 bits back In the 90s ?


Yes. If I remember correctly, all the R series from SONY used discrete DAC and amplifier. The one I had was using discrete S-Master which used custom ICs to control analogue discrete switching modules. You can see it in my profile photo.


----------



## Whitigir

Kakki said:


> Yes. If I remember correctly, all the R series from SONY used discrete DAC and amplifier. The one I had was using discrete S-Master which used custom ICs to control analogue discrete switching modules. You can see it in my profile photo.



Yeah, the current Sony is not the Sony that were back then.  Sony back then were very determining and always aimed to lead the market with innovations.  Blu-Ray was one of their latest and greatest battle against HD-DVD.  It always make me wonder why such an expensive device as DMP-Z1 is using non of Sony proprietary technology or discrete designs.  The only thing I saw that was Sony in the design were the Super capacitor for Digital DAC-IC Power Supply


----------



## nanaholic

Kakki said:


> So why are they using ICs for DAC and amplifier that are the 2 most essential components in a DAP? ICs are full of transistors, resistors and caps in minimum space interfering each other. They are highly imperfect too, as all the components and tracks are made from silicon etching.
> SONY used to use discrete DAC and amplifier for the flagship products and was stating that ICs were inferior to discrete. And some of the companies are still using discrete DAC and amplifier for mobile products for the maximum sound quality.
> According to your explanation, SONY now became the master of cost saving and space efficiency?



I don't believe anyone who can purposely conflate the simple technical act of optimising the lay out of several dozens of fixed components on a PCB to minimise the EMI between them is somehow equivalent to the much more complex technical choices in choosing a discrete DAC (which still have to use ICs, just different types of IC) vs a more fully integrated IC design is actually trying to have a discussion in good faith.  So I'm not going to try answer your question, if you are really interested you can figure it out yourself or ask the Sony engineers whom I'm sure are more than happy to answer your question.

The beating of the dead horse with this whole discrete vs IC and in turn the pricing is old and tiring, and no matter what I say will not change any of those whose mind is already made up and is looking for any excuse to bring the subject up, so why bother?


----------



## nanaholic (Feb 28, 2019)

For others whom are actually interested in learning the design choices I do strongly suggest, as always, the very detailed engineer interview:
https://www.sony.jp/feature/products/181101/

TL;DR - the relevant section describes the analog amp stage is part of what Sony refers to as the "Rinjyou Project" (Rinjyou = a dictionary definition would mean "presence", but in this context it refers to recreating the feeling of actually being there in person hence "realism" is also appropriate) in analog amp design that has been ongoing in parallel to the development of the NW-ZX1. The one used in the DMP-Z1 is their 8th iteration of this design/sound tuning.


----------



## xjaynine

Thanks for sharing. The detail about the engineers adding the Rinjyou-8 designation to the PCB was neat.

This thing was clearly designed with passion and heart, regardless of the component choices.


----------



## Whitigir

nanaholic said:


> I don't believe anyone who can purposely conflate the simple technical act of optimising the lay out of several dozens of fixed components on a PCB to minimise the EMI between them is somehow equivalent to the much more complex technical choices in choosing a discrete DAC (which still have to use ICs, just different types of IC) vs a more fully integrated IC design is actually trying to have a discussion in good faith.  So I'm not going to try answer your question, if you are really interested you can figure it out yourself or ask the Sony engineers whom I'm sure are more than happy to answer your question.
> 
> The beating of the dead horse with this whole discrete vs IC and in turn the pricing is old and tiring, and no matter what I say will not change any of those whose mind is already made up and is looking for any excuse to bring the subject up, so why bother?



I believe what he meant was that every IC has it own interferences and noises, and that the more complicated it architecture is, the higher it self generated noises are.  So, Ofcourse using a discrete DAC architecture with all the element lay out separately similar to R2R ladder or so, this will bring the noises down to the minimized level due to what you just stated, the spaces in between the components to avoid EMI interferences from themselves.  So, Ofcourse by using other simpler IC to act as a comparator, receivers, it Noises can be suppressed even further 

So, you contradicted your own respond by saying, yet, you believe that Sony used a huge empty lay out for avoiding interferences, and yet....they are using DAC-IC which is a very complicated IC by itself.  Also, if you think DAC-IC don’t make noises if they stay a good distant from other components, then you know nothing about IC and cell interferences.

It is just funny when someone say “I have this DAC-IC 4Cm away from another so it EMI doesn’t interfere with that other one”, and while “doing nothing to surpress the self generated noises within itself”


See ? Sony is fully capable of fabricating a special kind of IC that is similar to a simple FPGA with good materials.  Minimize the cell interferences the way they did make the MicroSD for high quality Audio, and using F-resistor lay out in a discrete DAC designs.  Or they can even fit the whole architecture onto an IC itself the way the S-Master is.  Also, whoever blaming the hiss causing by Walkman and S-Master when they plug in their Headphones is ignorant, the hiss comes from other things and not the S-Master DAC.

I read all the interviews, and the way I see it is that Sony doesn’t want to fabricate a new S-Master for this specific line of product, the DMP (line) and Z1 is the first best generation.  So I  think they will come out with A1 or so later.  Also the S-Master HX being used inside Walkman WM-1Z is already *too good, and can not be surpassed ATM*.  That is why they had to choose AKM as another alternative choices.  The reason why they pick AKM is because of the Velvet Sound signatures which is very similar to their own S-Master, and the time they engineered it, AK4497EQ was the top of the line

Now, I listened to the DMP-Z1 and while the bass spectrum and the mid was very similar to the WM1Z, the timbres density and energy, inner resolution are all very similar.  The one thing the WM1Z would have done better is the inner resolution of Treble and high spectrum.  S-Master had a more balanced timbres across the board where the AK4497EQ is warm, and also dull out the upper end of high spectrum with this same warmth.  The one thing DMP-Z1 does better is the sound stage, it was much better than WM1Z, and it would have been so by using dual DAC with having more power in driving my headphones HD800S

You should know by now that you are not the only one who love and admire Sony, many of us are, and some are even older who used to own other legendary products.  All I can say to myself now is that we should not simply look at DMP-Z1 and justify Sony too much.  They are still working on the next S-Master and newer architecture to improve it.  The DMP-Z1 is clearly aimed at other folks and not the faithful Sony enthusiasts.  So the way the products were made, and the price points are a bit non-senses to the Sony enthusiasts.  I am sure Sony will make another round.

I think Sony is doing this to offer a more flexible line in their products to grab other demands of the market that is dominated by Chinese/Korean products that is collecting good money.  The only downside is that it is priced 2.5X what others can do.  Also, when you look at DMP-Z1 this way, Sony engineers have _*addressed many issues that other companies don’t.*_  Such as using more precise with higher retentions components, minimizing EMI vulnerability, thicker traces and a lot of empty planes for heat dissipation and sound quality.  

I will have to repeat this, Sony had done this quiet well, that DMP-Z1 out perform other players that use DAC-IC easily, while being cool in operation, battery efficiency, and powerful to drive anything.  But then again, at $8k, Sony is challenging/taunting not only other manufacturers but also the customers.  Do you know what you want ? Do you know how to judge a products from price-performance-technical stand point ? Whichever way you look at DMP-Z1, Sony is quiet Successful in releasing it.  Then again, do not use the point of view of Sony Enthusiasm to look at it.

Sony 40th Walkman anniversary is coming soon, and we will be very very happy with what they may bring.  I am so very very sure of it


----------



## syke

same discussions with those who are watch aficionados. In house or ETA movements? Sure it matters but does it really matter that much?
不管黑貓白貓 能捉到老鼠都是好貓


----------



## Zhanming057

nanaholic said:


> I don't believe anyone who can purposely conflate the simple technical act of optimising the lay out of several dozens of fixed components on a PCB to minimise the EMI between them is somehow equivalent to the much more complex technical choices in choosing a discrete DAC (which still have to use ICs, just different types of IC) vs a more fully integrated IC design is actually trying to have a discussion in good faith.  So I'm not going to try answer your question, if you are really interested you can figure it out yourself or ask the Sony engineers whom I'm sure are more than happy to answer your question.
> 
> The beating of the dead horse with this whole discrete vs IC and in turn the pricing is old and tiring, and no matter what I say will not change any of those whose mind is already made up and is looking for any excuse to bring the subject up, so why bother?



Even if the distinction is pure D/A design dick measuring - which I agree with you that FPGA's to a large extent are - I do kind of care in the sense that if this was a $9,000 desktop DAC, it would be _passe_ to use an off-the-shelf chipset. That said, people do it and the result can be fantastic (Ayre, Prism).

The analogy with In house vs. ETA is a good one - it doesn't really matter if you're trying to tell time, but if I'm paying through my nose, I do kind of want an in house movement. 

I guess that points to my general feeling about the overpriced-ness of the Z1R. I have nothing against Sony - I have the XJE MH2, and I daily drive'ed a pair of EX1000's for the better part of 7 years - but I agree with @Whitigir in the sense that I can't help but feel that for $9,000, Sony could stand to offer a bit more all around. Even if it's just about the engineering, I want to see Sony do an FPGA versus 4497EQ's, use a faster processor and possibly a bigger screen on the device. A lot of bits on the Z1 seems to come from a parts bin. I know that it's difficult to run large production runs of displays for such a boutique device, but Sony makes some of the best LCD phone panels in the business, and there's so much hardware expertise that they could have leveraged. 

Anyways, I'd buy one at $4,500. Maybe $5,000.


----------



## Kakki (Feb 28, 2019)

nanaholic said:


> I don't believe anyone who can purposely conflate the simple technical act of optimising the lay out of several dozens of fixed components on a PCB to minimise the EMI between them is somehow equivalent to the much more complex technical choices in choosing a discrete DAC (which still have to use ICs, just different types of IC) vs a more fully integrated IC design is actually trying to have a discussion in good faith.  So I'm not going to try answer your question, if you are really interested you can figure it out yourself or ask the Sony engineers whom I'm sure are more than happy to answer your question.
> 
> The beating of the dead horse with this whole discrete vs IC and in turn the pricing is old and tiring, and no matter what I say will not change any of those whose mind is already made up and is looking for any excuse to bring the subject up, so why bother?


I’m just asking a simple question.
Imagine when a hotel is proudly saying that they secured large spaces for their guests and showing photo of the corridors and halls... but in fact having minimum space for the rooms where guests actually stay?
Or when a restaurant is proudly saying that they are totally organic and serving organic salad... but in fact serving frozen non-organic meat and fish for their main dish?
And when some fanboys are blindly praising those hotels and restaurants?

I just simply would like to know if what they are proudly saying is true and consistent for what matters the most.

ICs are integrated circuits and no different from discrete circuits in the logical design perspective... the difference is that ICs are physically created from the tiniest transistors, caps and resistors made from silicon and squeezed in the smallest size.

So when SONY is using ICs in DAC and amplifiers where analogue signals directly go through, is that a correct behavior to blindly praise Z1 as having spaces for components and having no compromise in that philosophy?

Isn’t it natural to ask... why is the hotel providing such a small room for the guests? Why is the restaurant using non-organic frozen beef?

What I feel for Z1 is non-consistency between the philosophy and what they are actually doing. Very sad to see such SONY and ... blind fanboys praising such SONY


----------



## HiFiGuy528

English site on meet the engineers.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/dmp-z1-interview


----------



## xjaynine

Kakki said:


> I’m just asking a simple question.
> Imagine when a hotel is proudly saying that they secured large spaces for their guests and showing photo of the corridors and halls... but in fact having minimum space for the rooms where guests actually stay?
> Or when a restaurant is proudly saying that they are totally organic and serving organic salad... but in fact serving frozen non-organic meat and fish for their main dish?
> And when some fanboys are blindly praising those hotels and restaurants?
> ...



Fair valid points, but those are projecting your own wants onto a product that simply doesn't meet your needs.

Sony was very transparent and upfront in their advertising materials with what the DMP-Z1 used. 

Frozen non organic food wasn't served when organic produce was ordered.

It's clear that the DMP-Z1 doesn't meet your criteria as a pure, ideal Sony product. Criteria that I also agree with. The parts choice isn't to my liking either. constantly bring up these same points doesn't add much to the discussion.

I'd hate for this to devolve into the s***show that was the original MDRZ1R thread.


----------



## bmichels (Mar 2, 2019)

*Finally some decent storage for the  Sony DMP-Z1 from SanDisk and MICRON :   Now DMP-Z1's max capacity is 2.25 Tb  

  *


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> *Finally some decent storage for the  Sony DMP-Z1 from SanDisk and MICRON :   Now DMP-Z1's max capacity is 2.25 Tb
> 
> *


Only $550 or so though.  I am sure I will be getting one for my WM1Z.


----------



## BlueThunder

Don’t know if this would interest UK shoppers, but Amazon has it for 7.15k instead of 8. I say they have it, it now says 1-2 months, but it was in stock and available earlier.


----------



## Rob49

BlueThunder said:


> Don’t know if this would interest UK shoppers, but Amazon has it for 7.15k instead of 8. I say they have it, it now says 1-2 months, but it was in stock and available earlier.



Saying 3 in stock now - £7.107.44p....anyone taking the plunge ! ??


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Amazon UK price is inflated.  £7.107.44 --> 9,282.28 USD The U.S. retail price is $8500.


----------



## BlueThunder

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Amazon UK price is inflated.  £7.107.44 --> 9,282.28 USD The U.S. retail price is $8500.


Welcome to UK prices. That is actually a good price as often times the UK price is exactly the dollar price eg £8500 for a $8500 item.


----------



## Rob49

We do tend to have inflated prices, especially with Sony products & US is always cheaper than us.


----------



## Uncle Monty

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/walkman/dmp-z1/specifications

£8,000 on Sony UK website


----------



## Zhanming057

Uncle Monty said:


> https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/walkman/dmp-z1/specifications
> 
> £8,000 on Sony UK website



That's wild. Street pricing in HK is less than $7,500 US. I do hope that price includes VAT!


----------



## purk

For something this expensive, it would need to be purchased from an authorized dealer.  Wonder if there will be a gray product goods on such expensive item?


----------



## yanfeng

DMP-Z1 is beyond my expectation.
I have a long history with Sony audio equipments. The last sets I owned were ZH1ES and ZR1, but I sold them after hearing Hifiman HE1000 V2 on Hifiman R2R2000 and Soundaware P1 (a very nice Chinese AMP). When I heard about DMP-Z1 I am least interested as I thought it's an overpriced gadget targeted for the foolish rich, maybe a bit better than ZH1ES, but not much. Last week I walked into a Sony store in Shanghai, and it so happened that they have one demo unit and no one was listening. So I tried it with ZR1...Oh my God this is the best headphone experience in my life! I am not quite a newbie and I registered Head-fi in 2005. I previously also owned Weiss DAC 202, INVITA Mirus Pro, Taurus, and HD800, etc. DMP-Z1 promoted Z1R to a whole new dimension. To cut it short I bought DMP-Z1 after several days' struggle, along with not Z1R, but Focal Utopia, as I think DMP-Z1 needs the best headphone I can afford. Z1R and Utopia have almost the same level of detail, but the sound of Utopia has more body and weight. Anyway Z1R is really a good match for DMP-Z1. I haven't posted here for years, but DMP-Z1 brings me back, as I can't withhold my excitement. This is not some shallow luxury, but a really innovative highend audio equipment.


----------



## raypin

Mm...it has to be balanced out. Talking about the Z1R/DMPZ1. Perfect pairing. Quite a very enjoyable experience. It is my default driving/car audio headphone system nowadays.


----------



## bmichels

raypin said:


> Mm...it has to be balanced out. Talking about the Z1R/DMPZ1. Perfect pairing. Quite a very enjoyable experience. It is my default driving/car audio headphone system nowadays.



Dear RAYPIN, I believe you owe the Focal Utopia as well as the SONY Z1R.  Could you comment on which Headphone you think offer the best synergy with the DMP-Z1 ?  Is it one of those 2 ... or may be another one ? 

thanks


----------



## CoryGillmore

raypin said:


> Mm...it has to be balanced out. Talking about the Z1R/DMPZ1. Perfect pairing. Quite a very enjoyable experience. It is my default driving/car audio headphone system nowadays.


Did you say you listen to Z1R/DMPZ1 combo while driving down the road? I used to feel silly driving down the road with my Apple buds in as my radio was not working for a bit...but you're driving down the road listening to 10K worth of headphone equipment LMAO. I envy you, good sir!


----------



## raypin

Ot: mm...yes. For expressway driving. Not a lot of cops around. If caught, usd100 fine. 



bmichels said:


> Dear RAYPIN, I believe you owe the Focal Utopia as well as the SONY Z1R.  Could you comment on which Headphone you think offer the best synergy with the DMP-Z1 ?  Is it one of those 2 ... or may be another one ?
> 
> thanks



Mm...on pure sonics alone, I d say the Utopia performs slightly better than the Z1R out of the DMP. Utopia is an excellent all-around HP. On a scale, in terms of synergy, 9/10 for Utopia, 8.5 out of 10 for Z1R. Open still triumphs. In terms of usage, my choice would be the Z1R because I use the DMP for transportable listening  scenarios (outside my residence). It is a refined listening experience. The DMP takes the Z1R into the next level and certainly much better than the AK380cu and cu amp does.

In terms of IEM listening, it is still an open question. I am waiting for my 2.5 mm to 4.4 mm adaptor before making a judgment call.


----------



## Whitigir

DMP Z1 is warm, so is Z1R.  I didn’t like the synergy when I tried them on, even with Kimber axios silver 16 wires cables hooked up, and my uncle couldn’t handle all that bass either....kinda like a brain massage.  However, Hd800s and I would say Utopia are both better in synergy, I would give the Hd800s a much better synergy to pair with DMP Z1


----------



## CoryGillmore

raypin said:


> Ot: mm...yes. For expressway driving. Not a lot of cops around. If caught, usd100 fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What kind of battery life does the DMP have when used in portable mode?


----------



## raypin (Mar 11, 2019)

Mm...I have not timed it but I’ve done several straight 6 hour listening sessions with some battery life to spare. It does recharge fast.

I reckon battery life is more than enough for a long-haul flight.


----------



## yanfeng

I am not sure how to put it accurately. With DMP-Z1, Z1R has a lot of details, and you can feel those details, not in an intruding or harsh way, but very smooth and comfortable. In comparison Utopia does not seem to let you feel as much details, but those details are there if you look for them, no less than Z1R. Maybe Utopia present them in a more natural way, but you won't feel Z1R unnatural at all. For some music such as string ensembles, I'd prefer Z1R as I'd love to feel the texture. For piano I definitely prefer Utopia as it's more solid and has more punch.



raypin said:


> Ot: mm...yes. For expressway driving. Not a lot of cops around. If caught, usd100 fine.
> 
> Mm...on pure sonics alone, I d say the Utopia performs slightly better than the Z1R out of the DMP. Utopia is an excellent all-around HP. On a scale, in terms of synergy, 9/10 for Utopia, 8.5 out of 10 for Z1R. Open still triumphs. In terms of usage, my choice would be the Z1R because I use the DMP for transportable listening  scenarios (outside my residence). It is a refined listening experience. The DMP takes the Z1R into the next level and certainly much better than the AK380cu and cu amp does.
> 
> In terms of IEM listening, it is still an open question. I am waiting for my 2.5 mm to 4.4 mm adaptor before making a judgment call.


----------



## yanfeng

raypin said:


> Mm..depends on what you are trying to achieve in this hobby. My goals are very clear to me: to own and enjoy the very best that this hobby can offer. Priority is sound, sound and sound. Cost is secondary to me. I started very late in this hobby and I figure I still have 5 to 7 years to enjoy the finest in this hobby before my sense of hearing is so compromised that it doesn ‘t matter anymore. I am no longer going for the biggest bang for the buck. It is only money. I can’t take it with me to my grave.
> 
> Yes, I am buying this. What does it replace? All of my present DAPs and future DAP purchases. Upgrades done in one fell swoop. I seriously doubt that Astell & Kern can equal the DMPZ1 for many, many years to come. It can drive all of my headphones and in-ears, to the edge of its potential.
> 
> ...



Tears, tears, all tears! This is exactly my consideration, my feel, and exactly what I have done. The economy (by economy I mean simplicity plus beauty) of this thing is unprecedent. My desktop has never looked so pleasing to my eyes, and heart.


----------



## CoryGillmore

raypin said:


> Mm...I have not timed it but I’ve done several straight 6 hour listening sessions with some battery life to spare. It does recharge fast.
> 
> I reckon battery life is more than enough for a long-haul flight.


HAHA they'd probably have you arrested or call the bomb squad if you tried to board a plane with such a device LMAO!


----------



## Whitigir

CoryGillmore said:


> HAHA they'd probably have you arrested or call the bomb squad if you tried to board a plane with such a device LMAO!



Not exactly, but some of them could give you a good time over it .  I traveled with WM-1Z before, and most of the time, all went well.

One of the thing that Sony do not advertise or mention about the _*unique-capability of the DMP-Z1*_.

_*The Artificial Intelligent inside the DMP-Z1*_.

The idea is that while listening to PCM, a raw *compressed* (that is right, FLAC is still compressed) data of binary coding, we rely on the algorithms, and the way each different modulators are working to convert and reconstruct the sound into analog reproduction.  That means, we *use the same set of algorithm, modulation for everything, genres, instruments...etc...etc..
*
_The question is, can you cook geese the way you do Beef ?_ The answer is *NNNOOO!
*
So, in order to achieve a better and more accurate fidelity, you would have to be able to realize what genres is being played, what instruments you are having, Strings, drums, brass, winds, what type....etc.....and you apply different methods to reconstruct the end results.  In order to do this, you need a good engineers, studio, and great set of ears to _*remaster it*_. 

But, how about, we have it inside your device on the go ? _*Welcome to AI-DSEE-HX*_.

If I am sold by the DMP-Z1, this is the only reason

The only device in the world to take advantage of this .  So you guys, who have this, and don’t use this function....I don’t know what to say, but I thought I should bring it up to you all

Remember, you can not cook Chicken the way you do Beef.  Therefore, you can not use the same algorithms and modulation for the same of everything.  Enjoy guys!


----------



## Wooglish

Whitigir said:


> Not exactly, but some of them could give you a good time over it .  I traveled with WM-1Z before, and most of the time, all went well.
> 
> One of the thing that Sony do not advertise or mention about the _*unique-capability of the DMP-Z1*_.
> 
> ...


I did not notice this on the product website before, it definitely sounds interesting, but I question if it is "real" AI that learns or if there are just defined algorithms that recognize rock, jazz, classical, etc.  Either way, definitely innovative...!


----------



## Kira69 (Mar 12, 2019)

Pretty much agree with @Whitigir .

This new DSEE HX is also avalaible in other devices.

@Wooglish DSEE HX works using pretrained models. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_learning

More info: https://www.sony.jp/feature/products/dseehx/


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 12, 2019)

Kira69 said:


> Pretty much agree with @Whitigir .
> 
> This new DSEE HX is also avalaible in other devices.
> 
> ...



Don’t be confused,  many other SONY have DSEE-HX.

The DMP-Z1 *has* a *unique* set of *DSEE*-*HX*.  It has the AI to do a higher processing steps and apply different methods to the sound rather than WM1Z/A, and other Walkmans, they are optional , you have to pick between percussion, vocal, strings....etc...according to that linked interview, this was a move to preserve battery


----------



## Kira69 (Mar 12, 2019)

False. Please @Whitigir get informed.


> *New DSEE HX AI analyses song type*
> 
> Audio upscaling is improved even further by our new DSEE HX processor which intelligently recognises instrumentation and musical genres. Realism and liveliness of different instruments, including the human voice, are inherently characterised by high frequency harmonics. By identifying instruments, and the relative energy of the audio, our enhanced DSEE HX can accurately rebuild audio lost during digital compression, for a full fidelity experience even with heavily-compressed audio formats.



Source: https://www.sony.com/en-ae/electronics/walkman/nw-a50-series/specifications

You tripped over the same stone twice. → Oct 12, 2018 flashback...


Kira69 said:


> Future is now (aka New DSEE HX): https://www.sony.jp/feature/products/dseehx/
> 
> Until now only on NW-A50 Series.





Whitigir said:


> DSEE HX is already a standard on WM series, and so for the S-Master HX. The way I see how Sony doing it, they are probably doing something similar to OverSampling but is based on the S-Master foundation which is non-oversampling platform.  The DSEE-HX never have been appealing to me, even before I found out about oversampling, and even now, not sure what it is going to do ....lol





Kira69 said:


> DSEE HX has nothing to do with oversampling. S-Master HX oversamples by default (Fs*2048), whether or not DSEE HX is enabled.
> 
> DSEE HX restored missing data based on existing frequencies. For that, used fundamental frequencies to restore harmonics (above 22kHz). Think about exciters. And I'm pretty sure it does more such as restore quantization errors, pre-ringing and some other lossy and 16-bit related issues.
> 
> New DSEE HX is built around DNN. That's a giant step forward. In the interview they explain it more in depth.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 12, 2019)

Lol, can some owner of DMP-Z1 take us the screenshot of the DSEE function here ? I didn’t check out this feature when I was tinkering with DMP-Z1 at Canjam, because it was never an appealing factor to me, just only recently

I know for a fact WM-1Z only allows by type, and you have to manually pick “percussion, Vocal male or female, String” types


----------



## coolhand

On my DMP-Z1 (firmware v. 1.01) you do not need, nor can you manually select 'type' as viewed in the photo I just took above:


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 13, 2019)

coolhand said:


> On my DMP-Z1 (firmware v. 1.01) you do not need, nor can you manually select 'type' as viewed in the photo I just took above:


Thank you, that confirmed what I said.  The DSEE-HX are the same name for many devices, on A series and even Xperia smartphones are only the Standard one (still no option).  The one on DMP-Z1 is Unique.  It utilize more of the AI to analyze and apply different techniques in digital processing toward different types of instruments.  Instead of choosing standard, percussion, female vocal, male vocals , string modes (like WM signature series) , you get them all automatically here on Z1, the WM Walkman had to have those as optional due to battery consumption

Can you please confirm the battery consumption with and without DSEE HX on Z1 ? It should consume a lot more when On

Also, I was wrong when I thought DSEE is Oversampling...it isn’t.  There is no different Oversampling methods, only different rates.  I now think , DSEE is more like using different set of algorithm, noise shaping, digital techniques, and filtering toward different analyzed and categorized frequencies/types by the AI....the Modulator is AKM VelVet Sound.

I wonder if this AI would be used in Sony Next S-Master


----------



## afreekindazone

Rob49 said:


> We do tend to have inflated prices, especially with Sony products & US is always cheaper than us.



It depends ! 

VAT is not included in the US price, but not sure about UK


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> Thank you, that confirmed what I said.  The DSEE-HX are the same name for many devices, on A series and even Xperia smartphones are only the Standard one (still no option).  The one on DMP-Z1 is Unique.  It utilize more of the AI to analyze and apply different techniques in digital processing toward different types of instruments.  Instead of choosing standard, percussion, female vocal, male vocals , string modes (like WM signature series) , you get them all automatically here on Z1, the WM Walkman had to have those as optional due to battery consumption
> 
> Can you please confirm the battery consumption with and without DSEE HX on Z1 ? It should consume a lot more when On
> 
> ...



This also seems to show that DSEE-HX is of some interests only for loosy compressed files.  DSEE-HX should be of* no interest for AIFF files ?*


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 13, 2019)

bmichels said:


> This also seems to show that DSEE-HX is of some interests only for loosy compressed files.  DSEE-HX should be of* no interest for AIFF files ?*



DSEE-HX can be used on any file from lossy to lossless...as they are all compressed binary codes of multibit, except DSD as it is uncompressed/processed/direct stream code of 1 bit.  I am sure AIFF would benefit too

Ofcourse, there is so much the DSEE HX AI can do when you are using Lossy such as MP3, you would benefit more if you are using Lossless.

Are you getting a DMP ?


----------



## afreekindazone

bmichels said:


> This also seems to show that DSEE-HX is of some interests only for loosy compressed files.  DSEE-HX should be of* no interest for AIFF files ?*



DSEE- HX works well even on files of up to 24/192 (I tested), but sounds best on 16/44 flac IMO


----------



## Whitigir

afreekindazone said:


> DSEE- HX works well even on files of up to 24/192 (I tested), but sounds best on 16/44 flac IMO


On the DMP-Z1 ? I had never liked DSEE HX from Zx2 and neither did WM1Z....but I am sure the Deep learning AI has yet to be perfected


----------



## Kira69

Please @Whitigir stop making unsubstantiated allegations. You're doing a disservice to anyone interested in digital audio.



Whitigir said:


> Thank you, that confirmed what I said.


That only confirmed DMP-Z1 uses the same NW-A50 screen:





*Source: ウォークマン NW-A50 レビュー ｜軽量で高音質なＡシリーズの進化点を「NＷ-A55HN」を使って確認！*



Whitigir said:


> The one on DMP-Z1 is Unique.


False.





*Source: ディープ・ニューラル・ネットワークによってさらにハイレゾ音質に迫った新「DSEE HX」登場 | ソニー*


----------



## Rob49

I've just had a softwear notification for my Sony HAP-S1 & interestingly it stated on the screen, about USB connection to DMP-Z1. ( Well i think that's what it said ? ) but just looked on the Sony website & nothing mentioned about the DMP-Z1 ??


----------



## coolhand

DMP-Z1 Yup or Nope ?


Short version:

I bought it 


**Warning: The Following Post Is Not A Review**

*All characters, components and/or company names appearing in this post are entirely fictitious. *

*Any resemblance to real persons, components or corporate entities living or dead, is purely coincidental.*



Recently I 'rather unintentionally' acquired a DMP-Z1 which I've been running into ABYSS Diana headphones, the pairing of which has resulted in me experiencing prolonged & profound periods of aural hallucination.

I'm wondering if the original model designation was not actually DMT-Z1....!

Before this most fortuitous event I had been considering replacement of my Hugo 2 (primarily used as a dac driving into a preamp/amp speaker system) with the Chord Hugo TT2. 

It's frequently noted for having more body than say my Hugo 2 with M-Scaler, and that's a pairing which although I'd found made music sound more like the DAVE.. was likewise ultimately possessing a less corporeal and more _ethereal_ characteristic, one which I'm personally not deeply enamoured with... I desire to hear musicians with real meat on their bones, as is the case with live performance.

Flesh !... this is precisely how and why the DMP-Z1 has been a fundamental reboot for me, and coincides with my clarity of realisation that the Chord sound whilst a very technically correct sound, is built from the top down (and from the outside, in). 

Whereas I perceived the DMP-Z1 as portraying a super musical, tangible and no less immersive or natural sound.. but instead built from the bottom up (and from the inside, out) !!

It's one thing for a replay device to deeply 'portray' the ambience of a studio or live recording, a complete other for it to tangibly impart a 'feeling' of the actual presence of performing artists. This is the core difference I have sensed in my direct comparisons of the aforementioned devices and for me, it is not subtle *AT ALL*.

YMMV, or not

A funny thing about this DMP-Z1 is that I had absolutely no interest or intent to acquire yet another piece of headphile gear, the Diana's themselves were an off-the-cuff listening test which put me so deep in the zone that I couldn't 'unhear' them... extraordinary transducers that they are.

The dealer whom supplied me the Diana's, noting my very simple tastes of 'only wanting the very best' hahahha, suggested that if I was so inclined, he could avail to me a listen of the very first DMP-Z1 to hit the shelves in my country, once it had cleared the warehouse later that week.

Truth be known is that that last piece of Sony audio equipment that I took seriously, and spent significant time with was during the late 80's recording in NYC recording studios... that was the PCM-3324 DASH 24 track multitrack recorder, which was at the time a state of the art (and high maintenance) beast !

The original 44.1/48kHz, 16-bit PCM-3324 weighed 440 pounds, had a maximum record time of 65 minutes and could easily be synched for 48-track work. Even with its $150,000 price tag, the PCM-3324 found many early adopters such as Stevie Wonder and Frank Zappa.

It was cutting edge and we made a lot of hugely successful albums with those machines... but back to the DMP-Z1.

I duly received a call and returned to the dealer for a listen, purely out of a very mild curiosity... I mean seriously I've been listening to some pretty classy gear in both the professional and audiophile sectors and recently the Chord dac stuff has been re-defining several aspects how well digital can be done to a significant degree...Sony on the other hand, well lets just say I wasn't holding my breath or anything 

Without derailing this thread (as much as I'd like to !) by getting deeply into socio-anthropologic musicology/hearing perception discussions , and perception of music does indeed depend on many culture specific factors... what the DMP-Z1 (primarily in combination with the ABYSS Diana for the sake of this here post) does for my innate enjoyment is thus far unique.. presenting a completely different _culture_ of sound reality and one which I profoundly resonate with.

Fact is that any and all designers of audio gear, design around their 'set of truths', their individual interpretation of reality.

Which in some cases may become like religious beliefs along with hordes of their abiding followers.... it matters not one iota whether these truths are based upon 'pure science', the arts... or a blend of the two.

Science is defined after all as nothing more than peer reviewed theories, many of which which are continually altered and refined, or discarded entirely.. learning does not stop, it evolves..and as such is ultimately no different from Art if taken to the extreme 

So do you prefer a '59 Fender P bass or a Fodera, discrete NOS dac or VLSI chip DSD upsampled 4096 times, solid state or tube amplification....everybody got choices, Yup !

I'll admit I'm a bit of tube freak, in fact I dig classic old crap, ...dusty vinyl and I also enjoy building tube amplifiers, preamps etc... I've got a walls of vintage gear, big ass horn speakers, NOS WE300B's, VT52's, 801's, 845's, mercury rectifiers etc...boxes of them, but frankly I couldn't care less regarding what components are employed in this here $10K box... Unicorn snot, proprietary hand rendered MangaFPGA's, Higgs Bosuns or 42 cent dac chips from last years Allied Electrical catalogue ??

When all is said and done, screw the technicalities....we're talking about music remember, and My ears, and solely my ears are the final arbiter.

Did the designers inner truths allow the the fat lady's lungs to swell, her buttons to pop and her voicebox to sing like no other ?

Indeed !

And so too did the explosive rhythms of Art Blakey, the mellifluous melodies of Roy Ayers, the bubbling bass lines of Sly & Robbie, the virtuosic violin of Rachel Podger etc.. etc.. etc..

Let _your_ ears, and solely _your_ ears be the final arbiter, muttered the deaf guy on the stool in the corner.

In the case of the DMP-Z1, after numerous hours of hardcore listening immersion I can go drink tea... and shortly return, no_,_ *be drawn back* to listening for many more hours with absolutely zero hearing fatigue. 
Whilst still hearing every nuance, in fact more relevant cues in the music and of the musical intent, the entire fundamental depth & gravitas of proceedings are represented so tangibly and effortlessly with oodles of natural in body presence.... _and_ out of head presence.

It's like a delectable Bento box which just keeps on feeding you 

Amongst numerous other dacs I've previously owned or still do, the Aqua La Scala R2R tubed dac was one which offered more similarities than differences in regards to the DMP-Z1's innate sense of mass delivery, tonality & texture than any of the uber articulate Chord dacs... it too communicated the message more than the medium... but in addition the DMP-1Z also does so, so much more.

In my mind the DMP-Z1 is ZEN masterpiece of refined simplicity which in one fell swoop can eliminate all the previously required power supplies, conditioners, cables, computers, end-point renderers, more cables.. blah blah blah. 

For one, it allows you to quit obsessing about endless external variables affecting the potential fidelity of the musical outcome, should you elect to defer to it's onboard storage & playback engine, but you're not limited to it either.. its USB C (USB B compatible) input also sounds freaking excellent from the numerous sources I've used, and the plethora of inbuilt DSP tuning choices allow for genuine high fidelity options, and options are always good !

I'm a recording engineer & éclectique music junkie (!) who is & has been way too side-tracked with all manner of gear in a continual effort to get the most out of the tunes.. the tunes man, the tunes... what most of us here are apparently all about...  the combination of DMP-Z1 with ABYSS Diana have curbed my sound reproduction compulsions like nothing else I've bought in decades.

On another tip, last night I connected the DMP-Z1 via the single ended headphone output (only as I don't yet have a Pentaconn plug to solder up a pair of direct run balanced cables) to my balanced input ADAM Tensor Gamma's which as a pair, are 120kg's and 2.1KW's of fully active 4 way custom designed mastering grade speaker system.... and although the arrangement was sub-optimal, they've never sounded more immersive from anything else I've driven them from by a very large margin, (and that is quite a long list which includes the direct outputs of my fully rebuilt and ohh so glorious sounding vintage recording console) !! 
What a simply massive sound, totally 3D knock all the walls out presentation.

So this stunning little black box is not simply a 100% fully self-contained & _transportable_ reference class system for headphones, it can also reside as the centre-piece source/preamp of a world-class loudspeaker system. 

(I'm yet to, but intend to deploy several other headphones and also slot it in to numerous big systems in my travels...)

Of course most people simply won't understand its raison d'etre it at all... nor will they stomach its not inconsiderable (_although in my opinion based on outright performance, functional practicality and ability to emote positively enhanced auditory response; absolutely justifiable) _price... but thankfully, the brilliant Japanese boffins who conceived this 'niche in a niche' device obviously have very little in common with most people, and neither do I  !


----------



## bmichels (Mar 21, 2019)

Thanks a lot coolhand. Very very interesting report !

This really make me wishing to try the DMP-Z1 ( and also the Diana).

- Re the Diana, was it the new version ?  Didn’t you find it UNconfortable ? ( I remember  trying it a while ago and was not impress at all... but it was on bad show conditions).
—>  What other headphones will you be able to try with the DMP-Z1 ?


- Re the DMP-Z1, my only wonder is: will it be a significant upgrade from my A&K SP1000 ( + Shure KSE1500 in-ears ) which is already excellent ?  I know,  I will need to find a was to try by myself, but mat be you can comment here ?


The « Line out « via « headphone out » seems to be a nice option... if it is good enough to  replace my Aurender + Denafrip Terminator DAC to drive my BHSE /SR009 and allow a radical simplification of my set-Up ( including geting rid of all those câbles & power conditioners...).
—> It is really a shame that the DMP-Z1 do not have a « real «  Line-out  !!


Anyway, I believe I will not buy the DMP-Z1 until SONY offer an iPad APP to browser the library & manage the playback.  I am so happy with my Aurender's Conductor APP that I really have a hard time convincing myself that I could browse 2 To of music through such a tiny LCD screen ! 

—> do you feel OK with this small screen ? How big is your library ?



Again congratulation for your purchase. I am really happy for you that you enjoy it so much.


----------



## coolhand

Regarding the Diana, I'm not using the latter Phi model, and most fortunately they happen fit me to absolute perfection with unparalleled ergonomics & long term comfort..
As for other headphones, I have access to anything in the market... which does not mean that I'm inclined to try _everything_ however, right now I shall reserve the right to remain very blissfully ignorant !

I have a continually expanding 10TB wi-fi networked library which I've comprehensively curated over many years, of which I can readily access the entirety (plus live streaming services) simply by connecting my phone, a tablet or any other network-aware device via the DMP-Z1's USB C port.
Or conveniently stream to it via its several lossy bluetooth protocols for more casual listening.

Although from my perspective one of the primary benefits of the DMP-Z1, is that you require no such devices to enjoy stunning fidelity it from ANY location when playing back from its internal + dual sd card slot storage, which can already instantly address 2.25TB via currently available 1TB SDXC cards, that is a shed load of tunes my man !
Personally I also have no problems whatsoever rapidly accessing a myriad of music via its very responsive, exceptionally well though out menu system and compact hi-resolution touch screen... heck I bet some people are going to say it should have included a wi-fi remote control AND an HDMI port so they can connect it to a 75" tv screen for viewing convenience, pluh-eeze already !!

My father always said, 'don't take anything for granted, and be thankful for _small blessings,_ for if you blink you might miss them'

In the BIG scheme of things the DMP-Z1 and Diana are pretty small, bless them


----------



## bmichels

thank you coolhand for your reply.

You are right that we should enjoy more what we get rather than complaining about what we expected.....   However, an iPad app will be really welcome, as well as WiFi streaming (to stay in the "one box" solution even for Tidal streaming)


----------



## coolhand

I do hear exactly what you are saying, or wishing for... 

More !

But having more is not always a better thing, sometimes possibly.. but not always.

So I don't think that it's necessarily a case _that we shouldn't complain about what we expected, _it's more a matter of understanding what the product is, as conceived, designed and delivered.

Of course the consumer may only really care about the last part, _what they end up holding in their sweaty little palms ! _
And usually most products are marketed quite explicitly, which is how the consumer decides prior to purchase, whether the item in question suits their wants and/or needs at a given point in time.
If it doesn't, they probably shouldn't buy it

E.g: One should probably not buy an Audi R8 convertible sports car, if only to later complain that it lacks off-road ability or upgradeability (just because Audi _could_ have also given it that ability, given that they also make & sell 4WD vehicles) !!
If it were to have been built with the multi-purpose abilities of both a high performance sports car and an & off-road vehicle, there is a very high likelihood that ultimate performance in either scenario would be significantly compromised.

Likewise for the DMP-Z1, what compromises would have been required in order for it to fulfill your desire for wi-fi streaming or any number of other peoples feature wishes such as a much larger screen ?

Possibly any or all of the following: 

-a requirement to implement a third party vendors wifi transceiver hardware, with potential future redundancy as protocols evolve
-significantly deteriorated audio fidelity due to localised RFI contamination from said transceiver, or large screen
-significantly reduced battery life and thus off-grid usage, one of it key design considerations

Who knows exactly, but what we do know is that the designers certainly were not forced to hobble the functionality due to massive design budget constraints, for Sony this is a very niche product regardless of its final retail price !
Other than the well hyped-up Sony marketing and fan-fare, apparently they've been developing the specific design for several years, and I genuinely believe that the team spent significant time and money in making calculated and thorough choices based upon a primary criteria, sonic fidelity.

As far as I'm aware it does not contain any type of internal wi-fi circuitry whatsoever, so any ideas you may have regarding wi-fi functionality upgrades are non starters.

Honestly, I can think of a dozen things which I might have done differently if Sony had thrown me in a design lab with a bank-roll and a pair of headphones, but virtually all of them are immediately addressed by simply plugging my phone, tablet, renderer or pc into its USB-C port.
Moreso, there is a prime benefit to this approach.. all of these external devices have their own specific user-interface or sound benefits which being separated from the 'sonic engine room of the DMP-Z1' significantly isolate it and give far more flexibility and features than Sony could ever have integrated.

I can choose to use my little phone solely as my 10TB networked library's end-point renderer, into the DMP-Z1.. it works perfectly fine over my wi-fi network and gives my MY choice of end-point interface, I have several apps which each have their own look, feel and feature set if I want to also use Roon, Qobuz, Tidal, Soundcloud or whatever comes next....  besides that, when wearing headphones I'm tethered to the DMP-Z1 anyway so one more thin wire is of absolutely no consequence !!

Or, I can use my specialised endpoint, a custom built ethernet connected box which can output via fully isolated USB, the highest resolution upsampled files from my server that I can control from a wireless device if I choose.
Alternatively I can connect directly into my studio computers feed, which I do anyway when adding or deleting music from the DMP-Z1's internal storage or listening directly from Audirvana or the neat little Sony app, Hi-Res Audio Player.

Reality is that the majority of punters will be perfectly happy listening to music from their phone, any number of other more broadly featured truly portable devices, or a desktop sprawled with miscellaneous boxes and cables which still cost far less.

Just as long as they're listening to music and it's making their life better is all that really matters, because happiness is contagious


----------



## audionewbi

It appears that Sony Music centre 2.0 also has DSEEHX but it is restricted to: 
The DSEE HX function is not available in the following situations:

You are playing a CD.
You are playing a song in the DSD file format.
You are playing a song with a quantization bit rate above 16 bits and a sampling frequency above 48 kHz.

Source: https://musiccenter.sony.net/en/instruction/inst013.php


----------



## bmichels

coolhand said:


> I do hear exactly what you are saying, or wishing for...
> 
> More !
> 
> ...



OK, so let's compromise on SONY just developing an iPad App using BlueTooth.  This should not affect sound quality, and can run with the existing hardware...


----------



## TSAVAlan

Today only, as a part of our Sony Signature Series event. The Source AV will be hosting a Facebook Live stream and hosting a Question and Answer live with Sony!

March 23rd, 3pm PST!

https://www.facebook.com/TheSourceAVDesign


----------



## Kira69

SONY TSAV Q&A Live right now: https://www.facebook.com/TheSourceAVDesign/videos/572134969973677/


----------



## yanfeng

coolhand said:


> DMP-Z1 Yup or Nope ?
> 
> Short version:
> 
> I bought it



Hello coolhand, I share much with you the same feeling and even the same purchase experience. I had never thought about it as an intented target before listening. I have little interested in Sony audio product of recent years. I have the impressions that they are now mainly for non-hifiers who cherish more of fashion and form than sound itself. The last Sony audio product I really miss is CD3000 which I sold in a mistake. The combo of Z1R and ZH1ES is all right but not inspiring and I sold them quickly. I half-heartedly picked DMP-Z1 up just out of curiosity. Man how I was hooked! In fact I know I have to buy it the first minute I listened to it. It's some sound I have never heard before. This is some kind of rare product that transcends commodity, product with soul and beauty.


----------



## coolhand (Mar 24, 2019)

yanfeng said:


> This is some kind of rare product that transcends commodity, product with soul and beauty.




Masterfully expressed with great economy of words.

How can anyone even put a price on that which draws such emotion ?!?!


----------



## bmichels (Mar 24, 2019)

coolhand said:


> Masterfully expressed with great economy of words....How can anyone even put a price on that which draws such emotion ?!?!





yanfeng said:


> This is some kind of rare product that transcends commodity, product with soul and beauty.



How can you booth do this to me ?  Don't you realize that I am trying to ...Resist ?  for once, I try to be happy with what I already have ?  


BTW yanfeng, can you tell us what headphone you are usine with the SONY DMP-Z1 ? Which one do you considère offer the best synergy with it ? 

Thanks


----------



## purk

I wish I can hear it first hand.  I own a really great sounding DAC/Amp in the name of Audio-Technica HA-5050H and wondering if the Z1 can top that.  Only ECP L3 & Ravenswood can top this amp so far.


----------



## ekindangen (Mar 25, 2019)

coolhand said:


> I do hear exactly what you are saying, or wishing for...
> 
> More !
> 
> ...



I share coolhand and yanfeng experiences.

I'm no expert nor sound engineer, but this DMP Z1 really hits it out the ballpark. Went auditioning at a shop in Tokyo and walked out with one. Happy owner with the Z1R.


----------



## yanfeng

bmichels said:


> How can you booth do this to me ?  Don't you realize that I am trying to ...Resist ?  for once, I try to be happy with what I already have ?
> 
> BTW yanfeng, can you tell us what headphone you are usine with the SONY DMP-Z1 ? Which one do you considère offer the best synergy with it ?
> 
> Thanks



I went through every post of this thread as a consequence of my love for Z1. Somewhere in the middle I read about someone who bought Z1 because he thinks he is old and he wants to make better use of the years when his ears can still enjoy music. I really like this philosophy. I am getting old too. I am not rich. I wouldn't buy Z1 if I were younger and I would have a lot more consideration. But now I think in a different way. I wouldn't consider much whether it is worth the price. It's reduced to two factors: 1. do I really like it? 2. can I afford it without ruin my life? So I bought Z1.

Currently I have three headphones: Focal Utopia, Hifiman HE1000SE, Sony Z1R. Z1R is borrowed from a friend who bought this Z1R from me a year ago.
Utopia has the most smooth, thick, and weighty sound. The details are all there but do not rush to show themselves. 
HE1000SE is the opposite of Utopia. It has a very transparent, etheral, and handsome sound. The textures and details are more pronounced than Utopia, maybe sometimes a little bit too pronounced, but mostly in a pleasant way. It definitely has less weight and body than Utopia, which makes HE1000SE less suitable for piano music.
Z1R is something between. It's very balanced, full of details, and quite impactful. A very nice all round headphone for all kinds of music. It's also more neutral than Utopia and HE1000SE. Maybe a tad less involving than the other two. 

I bought Utopia one day before I received the borrowed Z1R. If I have received it later, I might consider buying Z1R again. It is really excellent synergy with Z1, which brings out the best of Z1R. I had sold Z1R because it's a bit bland with TH1ES. I didn't expect it can truely shine with Z1.

I might still choose Utopia as I think it's still a better headphone than Z1R. It's more involving, and it's better for piano music which I listen a lot.

HE1000SE is also a very good headphone, but it suits more to some genre of music, such as small band and chamber music.


----------



## bmichels (Mar 25, 2019)

Thanks for your detailed answer.  I can see in the Z1R an added advantage:  being closed back it should isolate much better than the 2 others ?  Is it corect ? Can people around you be disturbed by your music playing ?

Also, from this thread it seems the Abyss Diana also offer a great synergy with the DMP-Z1 ? « Detailed and fast like an electrostatic » they say !  And from my signature you can guess I like electrostatic signature ( I have Stax 009 and also 007 now)


----------



## yanfeng

bmichels said:


> Thanks for your detailed answer.  I can see in the Z1R an added advantage:  being closed back it should isolate much better than the 2 others ?  Is it corect ? Can people around you be disturbed by your music playing ?
> 
> Also, from this thread it seems the Abyss Diana also offer a great synergy with the DMP-Z1 ? « Detailed and fast like an electrostatic » they say !  And from my signature you can guess I like electrostatic signature ( I have Stax 009 and also 007 now)



I haven't paid much attention to sound isolation as that has never bothered others in my home. And the Z1R has been mailed back to my friend as the longer it stays the more risk of me buying it back...


----------



## bmichels

Help...


----------



## yanfeng

Has anyone compared DMP-Z1 with  Luxury and Precision LP6 Ti which costs a little bit less but is rumored to be more powerful than Z1?
Link: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lp6ti-more-details-to-follow.894334/
The world of "portable player" is becoming crazier and crazier.


----------



## raypin (Mar 31, 2019)

bmichels said:


> Thanks for your detailed answer.  I can see in the Z1R an added advantage:  being closed back it should isolate much better than the 2 others ?  Is it corect ? Can people around you be disturbed by your music playing ?
> 
> Also, from this thread it seems the Abyss Diana also offer a great synergy with the DMP-Z1 ? « Detailed and fast like an electrostatic » they say !  And from my signature you can guess I like electrostatic signature ( I have Stax 009 and also 007 now)



Mm...the guy from Woo Audio said the Diana is gangbusters with the DMP  Z1. I’m not sure if he was referring to the Diana or the new Diana Phi (memory gap). My headfi dealer here has a demo Diana but , unfortunately, it is on loan elsewhere. Trying to arrange an audition.

But I very much agree with @yanfeng score with the Z1: Utopia, then Z1R, then the Hifiman HE1000 SE (recently auditioned). But since I use the Z1 for on- the- go, the Z1R tops my list of the best headphones I have heard thus far when it is paired with the Z1. Just excellent synergy with the crucial advantage: sound isolation. From my normal listening volume, the Z1 R performs much better than my HD 820 (fitment problem). Sound leakage is not an issue....unless you are in a dead-silent convent.

Favorite iem pairing so far with the Z1: Hifiman RE 2000 Gold. Lovely combo.


----------



## bmichels

raypin said:


> Mm...the guy from Woo Audio said the Diana is gangbusters with the DMP  Z1. I’m not sure if he was referring to the Diana or the new Diana Phi (memory gap). My headfi dealer here has a demo Diana but , unfortunately, it is on loan elsewhere. Trying to arrange an audition.
> 
> But I very much agree with @yanfeng score with the Z1: Utopia, then Z1R, then the Hifiman HE1000 SE (recently auditioned). But since I use the Z1 for on- the- go, the Z1R tops my list of the best headphones I have heard thus far when it is paired with the Z1. Just excellent synergy with the crucial advantage: sound isolation. From my normal listening volume, the Z1 R performs much better than my HD 820 (fitment problem). Sound leakage is not an issue....unless you are in a dead-silent convent.
> 
> Favorite iem pairing so far with the Z1: Hifiman RE 2000 Gold. Lovely combo.



Thanks a lot raypin for your input.  Z1R's isolation is indeed a big plus.  But Your feedback on the combo   Z1+Diana   will be very welcome if you can audition the diana.


----------



## yanfeng

I will be having a Luxury and Precision LP6 Ti in a few days and I will be comparing it to DMP-Z1.
What a time to be alive.


----------



## bmichels

yanfeng said:


> I will be having a Luxury and Precision LP6 Ti in a few days and I will be comparing it to DMP-Z1.
> What a time to be alive.



we are very interested in your finding


----------



## markt1600

Really appreciate Sony sending Sato-san and others from the Walkman team to CanJam Singapore.  After speaking with the team, the Z1 is becoming much more tempting, partially because of the engineering marvel that it is.

I am currently looking for both a DMP/AMP and a pair of headphones and was wondering if anyone has tried pairing the Z1 with the new Focal Stellia?  I had previously been looking at the Z1 + Z1R combo but the new Stellia seems like it could have real synergy (particularly given feedback on the Utopia / Z1 combo).


----------



## audionewbi

I really wish Sony also implemented PCM upsampling than DSD. DSD makes sound more analog, but PCM upsampling seems to make the soundstage bigger.


----------



## bmichels

markt1600 said:


> I am currently looking for both a DMP/AMP and a pair of headphones and was wondering if anyone has tried pairing the Z1 with the n*ew Focal Stellia?*



+1


----------



## Whitigir

audionewbi said:


> I really wish Sony also implemented PCM upsampling than DSD. DSD makes sound more analog, but PCM upsampling seems to make the soundstage bigger.


It is all dependent on the algorithms


----------



## Wooglish

bmichels said:


> +1


Z1 just arrived and is still charging, impressions to come...


----------



## bmichels

Wooglish said:


> Z1 just arrived and is still charging, impressions to come...



looking forward to read your finding.   Will you use the 4.4 balanced ?   

Do you have other headphone to compare to the Stella with the Z1 ?


----------



## Wooglish

bmichels said:


> looking forward to read your finding.   Will you use the 4.4 balanced ?
> 
> Do you have other headphone to compare to the Stella with the Z1 ?


I will use balanced for Stellia (Sony Kimber Kable) I also will be trying Sony Z1R and CA Andro SS balanced.  I will try JVC FW10K with factory cables through 3.5mm, and unfortunately don't have a cable to use the Utopia with the Z1 yet.  I will also try an assortment of various other headphones lying around...

Very initial listening with the Z1 & Stellia last night (still in the slow process of transferring about 1tb of music to the Z1 through 2 micros sd and system memory) was very favorable.  The Z1 is like a WM1Z on steroids (which is should be for the price!!).  I initially favor the Stellia to the Z1R on the Z1, but a lot more listening needed.  The Z1/ Stellia pair may indeed be the ultimate semi-portable (i.e. home & office) set-up...


----------



## bmichels

Wooglish said:


> I will use balanced for Stellia (Sony Kimber Kable) I also will be trying Sony Z1R and CA Andro SS balanced.  I will try JVC FW10K with factory cables through 3.5mm, and unfortunately don't have a cable to use the Utopia with the Z1 yet.  I will also try an assortment of various other headphones lying around...
> 
> Very initial listening with the Z1 & Stellia last night (still in the slow process of transferring about 1tb of music to the Z1 through 2 micros sd and system memory) was very favorable.  The Z1 is like a WM1Z on steroids (which is should be for the price!!).  I initially favor the Stellia to the Z1R on the Z1, but a lot more listening needed.  The Z1/ Stellia pair may indeed be the ultimate semi-portable (i.e. home & office) set-up...



Thanks for your initial impressions. 

Re the Utopia: does this means that Utopia and Stella do not share the same connectors so that you could use stellia’s cable on the Utopia ?  That is stupid from Focal !

Your initial listening is encouraging for the Z1/Stella combo, but some others reported stellar synergy between the Z1 and the Abyss Diana.  So the compétions for the best transportable Combo is launched ...


----------



## Whitigir

I believe Stellia uses 3.5mm as the same as Z1R and Utopia uses Lemo 2 pins.  It looked that way when I inspected Stellia at canjam, didnt have the time to inspect further


----------



## Wooglish

Whitigir said:


> I believe Stellia uses 3.5mm as the same as Z1R and Utopia uses Lemo 2 pins.  It looked that way when I inspected Stellia at canjam, didnt have the time to inspect further


Correct; 3.5mm on the Stellia vs. Lemo on the Utopia.  Very irritating for two flagships from the same company!!


----------



## bmichels

Wooglish said:


> Correct; 3.5mm on the Stellia vs. Lemo on the Utopia.  Very irritating for two flagships from the same company!!



+1.    Stupid commercial strategy ! Anowing !


----------



## bmichels (Apr 5, 2019)

Wooglish said:


> I will use balanced for Stellia (Sony Kimber Kable) I also will be trying Sony Z1R ...



Dear Wooglish, could you please comment on the isolation of those 2 Closed back headphone ?  *which one isolate best* ( not only isolation from outside noise, but also sound leakage) ?

So far, the only very good isolating headphone that I have foin is...  an IEM  (Shure KSE1500 

thanks in advance


----------



## TSAVAlan

Wooglish said:


> Z1 just arrived and is still charging, impressions to come...


Very nice!


----------



## yanfeng

Today I did a crazy thing. I bought a IER-Z1R to go with Z1. I must have lost my mind. I have lost my mind ever since I heard DMP-Z1.
Very initial impression: this is a crazy earphone, easily surpassing all my my earphones including K3003 and RE2000 in almost all aspects.
This small earphone should not sit in the league of earphones, but its much larger siblings.
My craziest feeling is that it's even better than MDR-Z1R, which I owned previously and borrowed it back recently. This shouldn't be. My mind must have been distorted by some mysterious force.
I bought this because I had a quite long listening session of it in the Sony store in Shanghai. It's driven by WM1Z. They have a DMP-Z1 but it's occupied by others. WM1Z is not powerful enough to drive IER-Z1R, but it's alreay good enough for me to take the bite. My venture is justified after I took it home and plug it to my Z1.


----------



## bmichels

yanfeng said:


> Today I did a crazy thing. I bought a IER-Z1R to go with Z1. I must have lost my mind. I have lost my mind ever since I heard DMP-Z1.
> Very initial impression: this is a crazy earphone, easily surpassing all my my earphones including K3003 and RE2000 in almost all aspects.
> This small earphone should not sit in the league of earphones, but its much larger siblings.
> My craziest feeling is that it's even better than MDR-Z1R, which I owned previously and borrowed it back recently. This shouldn't be. My mind must have been distorted by some mysterious force.
> I bought this because I had a quite long listening session of it in the Sony store in Shanghai. It's driven by WM1Z. They have a DMP-Z1 but it's occupied by others. WM1Z is not powerful enough to drive IER-Z1R, but it's alreay good enough for me to take the bite. My venture is justified after I took it home and plug it to my Z1.



HA HA ... now may be you will also sell your  Stella and kept only the IER-Z1R     .... and additional benefit, it will fin inside the DMP-Z1 carying case


----------



## Ricky64

yanfeng said:


> Today I did a crazy thing. I bought a IER-Z1R to go with Z1. I must have lost my mind. I have lost my mind ever since I heard DMP-Z1.
> Very initial impression: this is a crazy earphone, easily surpassing all my my earphones including K3003 and RE2000 in almost all aspects.
> This small earphone should not sit in the league of earphones, but its much larger siblings.
> My craziest feeling is that it's even better than MDR-Z1R, which I owned previously and borrowed it back recently. This shouldn't be. My mind must have been distorted by some mysterious force.
> I bought this because I had a quite long listening session of it in the Sony store in Shanghai. It's driven by WM1Z. They have a DMP-Z1 but it's occupied by others. WM1Z is not powerful enough to drive IER-Z1R, but it's alreay good enough for me to take the bite. My venture is justified after I took it home and plug it to my Z1.


Is this really true? The WMA 1Z won’t drive the iem?


----------



## nanaholic (Apr 6, 2019)

Ricky64 said:


> Is this really true? The WMA 1Z won’t drive the iem?



No, it's just nonsense people keep repeating because they often confuse a pairing which result in a sound they don't like with the phone being inadequately driven by the device.

Having talked with Kuwahara-san whom is the audio engineer/project leader of the IER-Z1R he's confirmed that some the most time and care he had given to was the IER-Z1R pairing with the WM1Z.  Also if you just think about it for a brief second you would easily come to that conclusion anyway because it doesn't make any marketing and business sense when they are making the company's best IEM - which is primarily for portable use - and somehow made it that it cannot be paired with the company's best portable device (remember, the DMP-Z1 is transportable, not portable, Sony's flagship portable player is still the WM1Z). Ergo, every official marketing photo of the IER-Z1R or interviews given in Japan with Kuwahara-san is done with the IER-Z1R paired with the WM1Z as the defacto pairing, with the DMP-Z1 being positioned as "if you want something even BETTER" combo. There's also every indication that Kuwahara-san had discussed with Walkman team's Sato-san had exchanged ideas and they weren't out their to undermine each other's work. I've seen the two together, and they were really friendly and close to one another.

The best explanation is that the resulted pairing of the IER-Z1R with the WM1Z which the Sony engineers liked is not to some people's taste. This is to be expected as Sony engineers doesn't just tune by graphs and measurements but also tune by their ears as well, which means a big dose of subjectivity gets thrown into the final mix.


----------



## audionewbi

As wrong as it is for us to say the pairing of Z1R to the current Sony DAP line of WM1A and WM1Z, with all due respect, stating manufacture opinion as justification on why owners opinion are wrong is equally unfair. 
How often do we get MOT stating, "hey we got it wrong, sorry"?




nanaholic said:


> No, it's just nonsense people keep repeating because they often confuse a pairing which result in a sound they don't like with the phone being inadequately driven by the device.
> 
> Having talked with Kuwahara-san whom is the audio engineer/project leader of the IER-Z1R he's confirmed that some the most time and care he had given to was the IER-Z1R pairing with the WM1Z.  Also if you just think about it for a brief second you would easily come to that conclusion anyway because it doesn't make any marketing and business sense when they are making the company's best IEM - which is primarily for portable use - and somehow made it that it cannot be paired with the company's best portable device (remember, the DMP-Z1 is transportable, not portable, Sony's flagship portable player is still the WM1Z). Ergo, every official marketing photo of the IER-Z1R or interviews given in Japan with Kuwahara-san is done with the IER-Z1R paired with the WM1Z as the defacto pairing, with the DMP-Z1 being positioned as "if you want something even BETTER" combo. There's also every indication that Kuwahara-san had discussed with Walkman team's Sato-san had exchanged ideas and they weren't out their to undermine each other's work. I've seen the two together, and they were really friendly and close to one another.
> 
> The best explanation is that the resulted pairing of the IER-Z1R with the WM1Z which the Sony engineers liked is not to some people's taste. This is to be expected as Sony engineers doesn't just tune by graphs and measurements but also tune by their ears as well, which means a big dose of subjectivity gets thrown into the final mix.


----------



## yanfeng

Ricky64 said:


> Is this really true? The WMA 1Z won’t drive the iem?



I might have not expressed myself properly. IER-Z1R on WM1Z is very good, so good that I bought it immediately. But IER-Z1R is such a beast that eats power for breakfast. I have to turn the volume of WM1Z almost to max for best result, but on Z1 12 o'clock is alreay too much for me.
So I might put it this way: WM1Z is a good match for IER-Z1R, but Z1 is even better.


----------



## nanaholic (Apr 6, 2019)

audionewbi said:


> As wrong as it is for us to say the pairing of Z1R to the current Sony DAP line of WM1A and WM1Z, with all due respect, stating manufacture opinion as justification on why owners opinion are wrong is equally unfair.
> How often do we get MOT stating, "hey we got it wrong, sorry"?



It is not unfair because the issue of sound pairing are just subjective preferences. Sony has their own sound preferences and the customer has their own sound preferences, and neither is more valid than the other, so no apologies is needed.

Also if you want to bring objectivity into this then objectively speaking using actual hard numbers, the spec shows the WM1Z is plenty able to drive the Z1R, heck according to the spec and some napkin calculations the WM1Z outputs more power than the Z1R is rated to handle, which means the only valid and fair opinion is that Sony made something you don’t like, nothing more and nothing less. Attributing that to being “unable to drive” is the user jumping to conclusions.

If you want an analogy it would be like Sony make some curry and said “this is what I think taste best with the amount of spiciness I think works” and someone eats it and said “it’s not hot enough, you made it wrong!”. What that person should be saying or actually mean is “I don’t like it, it’s not hot enough for me”, because there is no “wrong” in what Sony did. What would actually be wrong is if you asked for chicken curry and Sony gave you beef curry - the headphone equivalent would be you max out the volume on the device and you barely get more than 50dB of volume, but they didn’t do anything that could be consider to fit into this kind of mistake here.


----------



## nanaholic (Apr 7, 2019)

yanfeng said:


> I might have not expressed myself properly. IER-Z1R on WM1Z is very good, so good that I bought it immediately. But IER-Z1R is such a beast that eats power for breakfast. I have to turn the volume of WM1Z almost to max for best result, but on Z1 12 o'clock is alreay too much for me.
> So I might put it this way: WM1Z is a good match for IER-Z1R, but Z1 is even better.



Sounds more like you have a fit problem than the 1Z being actually underpowered.

I've tested the IER-Z1R on both my own WM1Z and the DMP-Z1 side by side before, when I listen to the Z1R on my 1Z with properly fitted tips and the phone pushed all the way in I didn't need more than 70 clicks on LOW gain to get listenable volume, if I go more than that my ear drums literally starts to hurt. Maxing out the 1Z volume output to get "good results" smells like something else is wrong.

Officially, the Z1R's sensitivity is 103dB/mW with impedance of 40ohm, it's a little bit more than most average IEMs but not crazily so. The WM1Z outputs 250mW@16ohms on its balance output, with a 40ohm load it should still output something like 100mW into the load at maximum volume which is easily over deafening levels of loudness.


----------



## hamhamhamsta

yanfeng said:


> I might have not expressed myself properly. IER-Z1R on WM1Z is very good, so good that I bought it immediately. But IER-Z1R is such a beast that eats power for breakfast. I have to turn the volume of WM1Z almost to max for best result, but on Z1 12 o'clock is alreay too much for me.
> So I might put it this way: WM1Z is a good match for IER-Z1R, but Z1 is even better.


How would you say the difference in sound between 1Z vs Z1? Is it a huge difference in terms of resolution etc? I’m curious as to the huge price difference between the two. I’m exclusively iem user and I own 1Z modded with Mundorf silver gold cable


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 7, 2019)

yanfeng said:


> I might have not expressed myself properly. IER-Z1R on WM1Z is very good, so good that I bought it immediately. But IER-Z1R is such a beast that eats power for breakfast. I have to turn the volume of WM1Z almost to max for best result, but on Z1 12 o'clock is alreay too much for me.
> So I might put it this way: WM1Z is a good match for IER-Z1R, but Z1 is even better.



The IER-Z1R pairs favorably with both the 1A and WM-1Z DAP, but your right the settings need to be high gain, and you can even go up to 8-9 or 10 depending on how loud the file is. The 1A is almost maybe better synergy as both the IER-Z1R and 1Z have a heavy handed low-end. Where the 1A is more flat responded getting slighly better speed and bass dignity. IMO.

Though if I was going to make a DAP for the IER-Z1R I would think making it just as powerful as needed would be the way to go, and that is what Sony did. It’s not like the DAPs are needed to be at 10 for human consumption. Also with the IER-Z1R there is no weak bass damping issue where the bass thins out at near max volume like you have with weaker amps.

The extreme (at near max volume) use is running the DAPs to power the full-size Z1R, which they do amazingly well. The 1Z and 1A is almost like having a desktop amp as far as power goes. The DMP-Z1 is not a unit I have tried, though the Sony TA-ZH1ES desktop takes the full-size Z1R, Z7 and IER-Z1R to a slighly different level. Probably more noticeable with full-size headphones but also a slight improvement with the IER-Z1R. It’s maybe the imaging which gets improved most using the TA over the Sony DAPs? I could only guess of the grand improvement in imaging you achieve with the DMP-Z1?

Interestingly the TA-ZH1ES ends up almost too smooth for the IER-Z1R but knocks both the full-size Z1R and Z7 out of the park with the aftermarket Sony MUC-B20SB1 cable.


----------



## yanfeng

hamhamhamsta said:


> How would you say the difference in sound between 1Z vs Z1? Is it a huge difference in terms of resolution etc? I’m curious as to the huge price difference between the two. I’m exclusively iem user and I own 1Z modded with Mundorf silver gold cable


When I listened to 1Z, I feel there is still slight unnaturalness, like slight edge or roughness occasionally. With Z1, those unsmoothness has all been ironed out. Everything flows more effortlessly. Well, maybe it's even a lilltle bit too rounded and smooth, if I have something to complain, especially in the lower bass area, which I wish a bit more textures. Changed to Utopia and HE1000 SE and those textures are back.


----------



## bmichels

Wooglish said:


> I will use balanced for Stellia (Sony Kimber Kable) I also will be trying Sony Z1R and CA Andro SS balanced.  I will try JVC FW10K with factory cables through 3.5mm, and unfortunately don't have a cable to use the Utopia with the Z1 yet.  I will also try an assortment of various other headphones lying around...
> 
> Very initial listening with the Z1 & Stellia last night (still in the slow process of transferring about 1tb of music to the Z1 through 2 micros sd and system memory) was very favorable.  The Z1 is like a WM1Z on steroids (which is should be for the price!!).  I initially favor the Stellia to the Z1R on the Z1, but a lot more listening needed.  The Z1/ Stellia pair may indeed be the ultimate semi-portable (i.e. home & office) set-up...


Hello Woohlish.  Are you lost in the music listening 24/24 the Z1 ?   We are all anxious to get your detailed impression of
your new toy


----------



## Wooglish

TSAVAlan said:


> Very nice!


Thanks for selling it to me!!


----------



## Wooglish

bmichels said:


> Hello Woohlish.  Are you lost in the music listening 24/24 the Z1 ?   We are all anxious to get your detailed impression of
> your new toy


Unfortunately been travelling almost since purchase and the Z1 is not quite portable enough for plane travel!  I hope to get solid listening time with it this weekend.  Very frustrating to have it fully loaded with music and sitting waiting...!


----------



## TSAVAlan

Wooglish said:


> Thanks for selling it to me!!


No problem! Now if Sony can get he rest of my remaining order to me!


Wooglish said:


> Unfortunately been travelling almost since purchase and the Z1 is not quite portable enough for plane travel!  I hope to get solid listening time with it this weekend.  Very frustrating to have it fully loaded with music and sitting waiting...!


Guys in Japan are going around with their DMP-Z1 in a portable setup.


----------



## hamhamhamsta

TSAVAlan said:


> No problem! Now if Sony can get he rest of my remaining order to me!
> 
> Guys in Japan are going around with their DMP-Z1 in a portable setup.


Oo man, that is hardcore


----------



## nanaholic

That’s the new Van Nuys carry case which was only just made available for order a few days ago. 

They are also releasing a sling bag, which Sato-san himself had been using the prototype for several months now to carry his own DMPZ1 around.


----------



## koven

I tried the Z1 + Z1R in Tokyo. Great unit but can't see how it's worth that price... rather have a Chord DAVE I think.


----------



## nanaholic

koven said:


> I tried the Z1 + Z1R in Tokyo. Great unit but can't see how it's worth that price... rather have a Chord DAVE I think.



We’ve gone over this many times - the products are not comparable. The DMP-Z1 currently occupies its very own product space.

If you can make a DAVE that is transportable, operates on a battery and doesn’t require an external digital transport and under 9 grand, sure. Else you aren’t comparing like with like.


----------



## 21qz

nanaholic said:


> We’ve gone over this many times - the products are not comparable. The DMP-Z1 currently occupies its very own product space.
> 
> If you can make a DAVE that is transportable, operates on a battery and doesn’t require an external digital transport and under 9 grand, sure. Else you aren’t comparing like with like.


 
but what if you're using both for a desktop set up only?


----------



## nanaholic (Apr 16, 2019)

21qz said:


> but what if you're using both for a desktop set up only?



Even when used in a strictly desktop scenario it only brings the comparison closer but still not a complete apples to apples one as the DMP-Z1 is an all-in-one device whereas you still have to source other parts for an equivalent DAVE setup like a digital source, interconnects and a clean power source etc.

When you evaluated the value of a DMP-Z1 you must take into account of this, just judging it by sound alone and say it’s not worth the price is simply not a good faith judgment. It’s like saying why anyone would buy a laptop when with the same money you can get a more powerful desktop PC, but the value you pay for the laptop lies exactly outside how powerful it is eg even if it doesn’t go outside the house a laptop can be easily moved between rooms and takes up less space etc whereas a desktop cannot do those things, and it may be exactly that quality of the laptop that someone is looking for. This is the same for the DMP-Z1.


----------



## markt1600 (Apr 16, 2019)

To me, I don't see the value proposition for the DMP-Z1 in the laptop / desktop analogy.  Not that it is wrong if that is what you value, but to me the beauty of the DMP-Z1 is that the entire system was built purposefully to work together.  The fact that it is a transportable system is an ancillary benefit but not the primary benefit of this system.  For this to be worth it though, all of these components must come together so that the system can be judged by its "sound alone" and to my ears, the DMP-Z1 has a beautiful sound signature.  Part of what we're paying for is also certainly the beautiful feat of engineering that the DMP-Z1 represents.  Similar to the fact that when you buy a high end watch, you get a watch that can tell time but there will be other watches that tell more accurate time and cost less. What you pay for is the attention to detail, the construction, the little things that go into that particular watch.  And same with the DMP-Z1.

*Edit*: I continue to be baffled by the lack of support from high end DAPs for streaming (Spotify, Tidal, etc.) services.  Yes, there are quality issues with streaming.  But they will continue to improve and despite my passion for high end audio, streaming services have reignited a love of music and form the bulk of what I listen to.


----------



## Whitigir

DMP-Z1 is the product in it own category.  It isn’t quiet desktop capable, but it is far superior to DAPS in driving full-size headphones 

The DMP-Z1 is like the mother of WM1Z, except the tonal body is a little more different as the warmth is intruding into the treble and high spectrum as well.  The Wm1Z at least is more balanced and natural uptop.  Having desktop system myself, and different portables.  I still don’t see the reason to grab the 1Z.  I do appreciate the people who buy it up though.  Keep stocking Sony, so the giant will wake up


----------



## bmichels

markt1600 said:


> I continue to be baffled by the lack of support from high end DAPs for streaming (Spotify, Tidal, etc.) services.  Yes, there are quality issues with streaming.  But they will continue to improve and despite my passion for high end audio, streaming services have reignited a love of music and form the bulk of what I listen to.



Agree 1000%


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 17, 2019)

I am not old...but I rather own, buy, seek out, hunt for, the CD or Records that I want.  For many years from now, with good keeping, it still will remain.  Streaming ? Do you own anything ? Like really ? 

You have your point though, taking out internet and wireless capabilities in this days and ages is a bit...Extreme  ....


----------



## buzzlulu

I come from a two channel world and brands where 25k streamers and turntables are more common then you think.  Amongst the users there is a definite movement about to abandon purchasing music and move more and more into streaming.  I am "old" (59) and own 7000 LP's and 3000 CD's.  These past two years I have effectively stopped buying music.  I have subscriptions to Tidal, Spotify, Apple Music and Qobuz.  Based on the amount of my monthly subscription bill I cannot begin to tell you how happy I am to be saving the kind of money I am.  When using these uber totl streamers you would be hard pressed to tell what is streamed vs. what is ripped.


----------



## nanaholic (Apr 17, 2019)

The lack of support for streaming is not a sound quality issue but a technical and business issue.

Streaming services has continued to prove they are not a profitable business model, there is no guarantee they won't go bust the next day. Also adding support for streaming means adding Andorid or else you will not get the best app experience, this severally limits the modification to the base OS while significantly increases the cost of device certificatation (to get Google Store approval), reduces OS update cycles, as well as increase development time for a very small amount of devices which could be spent elsewhere.

if you need streaming, use a phone or tablet as your source, this is the best solution instead of burdening the player with bloat.


----------



## buzzlulu

nanaholic said:


> Streaming services has continued to prove they are not a profitable business model, there is no guarantee they won't go bust the next day.
> 
> if you need streaming, use a phone or tablet as your source, this is the best solution instead of burdening the player with bloat.




If the streaming services go bust......who cares.  One simply goes back to buying music.  I never understood this logic.

Burdening the player with bloat?  The top streamers already are capable of pulling the stream directly from Tidal and Qobuz servers.  There is no Android or iOS overhead or "bloat".


----------



## nanaholic (Apr 17, 2019)

buzzlulu said:


> If the streaming services go bust......who cares.  One simply goes back to buying music.  I never understood this logic.
> 
> Burdening the player with bloat?  The top streamers already are capable of pulling the stream directly from Tidal and Qobuz servers.  There is no Android or iOS overhead or "bloat".



The company making them cares because it adds an overhead in negotiation during the development process which means extra man hours and development effort that could be spent elsewhere. Some users also cares when a part of their software feature which worked before suddenly don’t. Also having third party features integrated into your own software can cause vulnerabilities that may expose your own trade secrets eg what would Chord think if their secret DAC code developed by Rob Watts  is reversed engineered due to a vulnerablility which then allows anyone to duplicate it in any FPGA (which BTW is why I have no doubt is the reason Chord doesn’t allow downloadable user applicable upgrade firmware upgrades for their DAC products)? There are mountains of factors to consider for the business which is not transparent to the user.

The top streamers definitely runs some OS underneath and adding anything on top to support streaming is bloat, and any changes in the streaming services requires them to change the OS - either minor or drastically, especially true if the OS is heavily customised. These are all bloats that has to be factored in.

Software development is highly complex and expensive, and sometimes the payoff may not actually be worth it.


----------



## buzzlulu (Apr 17, 2019)

I think you are taking something relatively easy - and making it complex.

Manufacturers need to come to grips with the fact that statistically the majority of music consumption now comes via streaming.  Manufacturers will ultimately see sales of said product (which does not support streaming) diminish over time if it does not support the primary way which consumers listen to music.   Sales of small niche products may not immediately suffer however ultimately consumers will balk when they are not able to listen to music via their primary consumption method.

You cannot fight numbers and facts - the sale of physical music is continually shrinking - and is being replaced with continually increased numbers of consumers who exclusively stream rather than purchase.


----------



## Watcherq

Adding the 3rd party software and changing your entire architecture is not an overnight task.  How long has high end streaming been popular?  2 years.  Product cycle takes time, effort and thus lots of money.  From hardware and audio solution to software and OS platform is not something to be taken and done overnight.  Eg I'm sure the Z1 took at least 3 years to come out from design to market.  Between that time, streaming of high end becomes popular, so you can see that it would be hard to put it in mid cycle as they have already decided to use their Linux-based OS and not android in it. 

The adding of 3rd party software (that changes regularly requiring update) is no easy task to integrate with Wifi, interference, OS to drive, CE and other certifications (eg Wifi), patching process/rollback, etc.  The Z1 has the USB-C interface.  Put a 2m cable to your android phone and stream through that would be easier.


----------



## Giraku

I prefer to buy hi-res music files online (e.g. HDtracks). If the albums I want are not available on such online stores, I buy CDs.


----------



## buzzlulu

Watcherq said:


> Adding the 3rd party software and changing your entire architecture is not an overnight task.  How long has high end streaming been popular?  2 years.



In 2007 Linn announced that they would stop making CD players and move exclusively to digital streamers.  Many other high end two channel companies quickly followed.  In two channel this has been going on a lot longer than you think.  
Most high end two channel manufacturers have fully abandoned manufacturing CD players - this is not something new and has been this way for quite a while


----------



## TSAVAlan

I like Tidal and use it a bunch. It doesn't have exactly all the selection I would like as I probably do listen to a lot of foreign music. Lots of our gear in the streaming/2 channel side has started getting Tidal and Roon integration for the streaming market and it certainly is convenient for those in the market for that. At the same time, we still see lots of folks interested in vinyl, interested in cd/sacd players, dsd or mqa dacs, etc. The market is so diverse and unique now. I have talked to people with hundreds of physical CDs and no digital music at all and the inverse, guys with tons of digital music and no physical music, or guys who 100% stream.

I don't doubt Sony has something streaming in the works. Sony does take its time to make sure they get it right. Some streamers that have come out, from brands I won't name, have felt glitchy and unfinished from my experience. Heck, even using my Chromecast last night to try and throw HBO Now on my Tv was an exercise in patience in comparison to how easy Netflix is! Even big brands like HBO can stumble when it comes to streaming.


----------



## bmichels

Wooglish said:


> Z1 just arrived and is still charging, impressions to come...



Dear Wooglish, I hope you have had enough time available to fully enjoy your new toy. 

Please share with us, when you have time, your Z1 listening impressions, and some comparaison of the various Headphones associated with the Z1.

thanks in advance


----------



## Ricky64

IMHO, coming from a two channel world, whether or not streaming is a desired feature is not the point in a product like the Z1. The goal is purity of the signal path. There are questions of whether adding Wifi capability degrades this. Recall, these are folks who run dedicated electrical lines in for their amplifiers, and won't plug a television or other device in the same room, or outlet, as their pre amp or amp. 
I would guess streaming will be available in an upcoming truly portable walkmans. I think in the case of the Z1, it was to be a truly "isolated" device.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

streaming music services is for convenience, not high fidelity listening. You don't need a $8500 box for streaming music. 

To me, DMP is for the purest who desires the best sound quality. I remember the Sony SCD-1 when it was introduced in 2000 (still own it). It is a slow moving CD player and can only hold ONE cd but the sound and build is why it cost $5K and weights 58 lbs. https://www.stereophile.com/hirezplayers/180/index.html

DMP-Z1 will go down in history as one of the BEST Sony personal audio product.


----------



## buzzlulu

HiFiGuy528 said:


> streaming music services is for convenience, not high fidelity listening. You don't need a $8500 box for streaming music.




As someone who is primarily two channel, and has heard, has owned, and currently owns, streaming boxes from $5 to $25k - I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement.  Sorry but to say that streaming cannot provide high fidelity listening is foolish.

I own, and have friends who own, two channel systems approaching 6 figures and above.  Since most of us are older, grew up COLLECTING and BUYING music (before CD's and digital even existed), and already own significantly large physical collections (in my case 7000 records and 3000 cd's)  - we are not investing large sums in streaming boxes because "they are for convenience".  Many of us have stopped buying CD's, continue to buy vinyl, and now use Tidal and Qobuz for our digital non analogue listening.  We would not be doing it if our streaming boxes were not capable of exceeding our (expensive) CD players - and were only for convenience.  We have too much invested in preamplifiers, amplifiers, and speakers to settle for a playback system which can only provide convenience.  And  - by the way -  we also believe in SOURCE FIRST for system building so that is where we are putting the bulk of our funds.  Convenience simply does not cut it.

Go to a hi end two channel shop and do a blind test of a ripped CD vs. a Tidal or Qobuz stream from the TOP two channel streaming boxes in the world.  You will be quite surprised by the outcome.


----------



## Ricky64 (Apr 19, 2019)

buzzlulu said:


> As someone who is primarily two channel, and has heard, has owned, and currently owns, streaming boxes from $5 to $25k - I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement.  Sorry but to say that streaming cannot provide high fidelity listening is foolish.
> 
> I own, and have friends who own, two channel systems approaching 6 figures and above.  Since most of us are older, grew up COLLECTING and BUYING music (before CD's and digital even existed), and already own significantly large physical collections (in my case 7000 records and 3000 cd's)  - we are not investing large sums in streaming boxes because "they are for convenience".  Many of us have stopped buying CD's, continue to buy vinyl, and now use Tidal and Qobuz for our digital non analogue listening.  We would not be doing it if our streaming boxes were not capable of exceeding our (expensive) CD players - and were only for convenience.  We have too much invested in preamplifiers, amplifiers, and speakers to settle for a playback system which can only provide convenience.  And  - by the way -  we also believe in SOURCE FIRST for system building so that is where we are putting the bulk of our funds.  Convenience simply does not cut it.
> 
> Go to a hi end two channel shop and do a blind test of a ripped CD vs. a Tidal or Qobuz stream from the TOP two channel streaming boxes in the world.  You will be quite surprised by the outcome.


 @buzzlulu , do you have a combination streamer/dac/preamp/amp in your two channel system?


----------



## buzzlulu (Apr 19, 2019)

Ricky64 said:


> @buzzlulu , do you have a combination streamer/dac/preamp/amp in your two channel system?



No I do not.  I run the totl Naim 500 series separates - preamp and amplifier.  Streamer is a Linn Klimax DS.  Vinyl is top spec Linn LP12.  Most of my friends run seperates as we are really traditional two channel users and do not run all in one boxes.

An integrated streamer/dac/preamp/amp could be something like one of the new Naim Uniti Atom/Nova/Star all which offer amazing all in one performance at not nose bleed prices - I seem to recall price ranges for the three units going from $3300-$6000-$8000 -so the totl all in one box is $8000 (comparable to the Sony).  Each model offers quite a bit more in terms of functionality (can drive a set of speakers, headphone amp, large display screens,  full Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify, UpNp support, ability to connect external USB hard drive containing all of your digital files etc.) .

Linn has just released their version of the Naim Uniti line with comparable functionality.  DCS has just released the Bartok (more expensive than the Sony).  I am primarily UK HiFi (though I am in the States) however there are quite a few other brands out there doing the same.

Qualifier -  I own the WM1Z Walkman and Z1R headphones (owned and sold the TA as well) so I have no bias vs. Sony.


----------



## Ricky64

buzzlulu said:


> No I do not.  I run the totl Naim 500 series separates - preamp and amplifier.  Streamer is a Linn Klimax DS.  Vinyl is top spec Linn LP12.  Most of my friends run seperates as we are really traditional two channel users and do not run all in one boxes.
> 
> An integrated streamer/dac/preamp/amp could be something like one of the new Naim Uniti Atom/Nova/Star all which offer amazing all in one performance at not nose bleed prices - I seem to recall price ranges for the three units going from $3300-$6000-$8000 -so the totl all in one box is $8000 (comparable to the Sony).  Each model offers quite a bit more in terms of functionality (can drive a set of speakers, headphone amp, large display screens,  full Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify, UpNp support, ability to connect external USB hard drive containing all of your digital files etc.) .
> 
> ...


I didn’t think so, my main point being, the higher end you go, the more separated are the different functions. Sony left streaming out of the Z1 intentionally. As much as I like Tidal, the circuitry required to use it could have degraded from the sound.
FYI, I had a Naim Uniti. I am now using Roon via a nuc into an Aesthetix dac.
But I do feel my remasters Kind of Blue at 192/24 sounds better than streaming.


----------



## buzzlulu

It wouldn't surprise me.  Your remasters are 192/24. Streaming are only 44/16.  Big difference - you need to compare apples to apples.....and not apples to oranges.

Which Uniti - Atom?


----------



## buzzlulu

Ricky64 said:


> I didn’t think so, my main point being, the higher end you go, the more separated are the different functions. Sony left streaming out of the Z1 intentionally.



Ricky64
I have no problem with Sony leaving out streaming - my original post was not directed towards that.

I took issue with the comment

"streaming music services is for convenience, not high fidelity listening. You don't need a $8500 box for streaming music"

which I completely disagree with and chose to reply by illustrating what is currently going on in high end two channel.

By the way - the new brand Naim $25k ND555 and my current Linn Klimax DS both have streaming service integration built in (as well as many others).  Trust me people are not spending this kind of money to slot these units into their two channel systems if they were only for convenience and not capable of high fidelity listening via the streaming services.

Now - if you are taking about Spotify streaming and convenience..... well that is a different story


----------



## harishmirror

Folks, apologize me for a TOTL noob question, is there any opportunity for someone to try the DMP-Z1 in the US or Canada? Or is there any Sony rep available on headfi?


----------



## Whitigir

harishmirror said:


> Folks, apologize me for a TOTL noob question, is there any opportunity for someone to try the DMP-Z1 in the US or Canada? Or is there any Sony rep available on headfi?


Go to California, Thesource AV has it


----------



## TSAVAlan

harishmirror said:


> Folks, apologize me for a TOTL noob question, is there any opportunity for someone to try the DMP-Z1 in the US or Canada? Or is there any Sony rep available on headfi?





Whitigir said:


> Go to California, Thesource AV has it


Yup we got the DMP-Z1 on display and available for demo. One can typically walk in and find me wiping down the unit for fingerprints constantly.

Just spoke with Sony since we are constantly waiting on additional stock, looks like another small batch is coming into the country later this week.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Hope to get mine in this batch. I had it for 2 months at home and I was sad to see it go.


----------



## TSAVAlan

One can look upon the Sony gods and ask for mercy for them to bestow us a blessing of DMP-Z1...

Or wait for Sony JP to send the USA more stock. Whatever floats your boat.


----------



## ekindangen

By the way, for those who happen to receive a gift of DMP Z1 from Japan (very lucky you) or for those who can't wait to get the official version in their country and ended up buying one in Japan (that's me), there is a way to change the language from Japanese to one of your liking. The nice developer at rockbox.org has updated their dest tool program to recognize DMP Z1. I used it successfully by choosing dest E and SPS off. Here's the page where you can find the tool: https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWDestTool#Getting_the_tool 

Thank you pamaury.


----------



## markt1600

Has anyone had a chance to try the DMP-Z1 with the focal stellias yet?  Very close to pulling the trigger and purchasing from my local Sony shop but unfortunately don't have a pair of Focal Stellias to bring in and try it directly!


----------



## bmichels (Apr 26, 2019)

markt1600 said:


> Has anyone had a chance to try the DMP-Z1 with the focal stellias yet?  Very close to pulling the trigger and purchasing from my local Sony shop but unfortunately don't have a pair of Focal Stellias to bring in and try it directly!



+1.    Also very interested to know How the DMP-Z1 with the focal stellias sound.

Note: I read that The DMP-Z1 and the ABYSS Diana phi also offer a superbe combination.


----------



## markt1600

So I went ahead and purchased the DMP-Z1 and have had a chance to play with it a bit.  

Still in the early stages of testing but one of the fun things I've done is gone back and forth between battery and AC mode with various headphones.  Using battery power _significantly_ reduces the noise floor with the IEMs that I've been testing.  As someone very sensitive to any kind of background static or noise of any kind, this alone may have justified the cost of entry.  I'm somewhat concerned about battery life and the possibility of the batteries degrading overtime but Sato-san assured me at Canjam that it is no different from the rest of the Walkman series - it will be easy to send the unit in for battery replacement should it be needed.

So far I have tried the Westone W80s and FitEar MH335DWs using the unbalanced connection.  These are both highly efficient earphones so don't benefit as much from the added power but the Z1 adds separation and a cleanness to the music.  Compared to some of my other players, it certainly isn't night and day but I would describe it as going from an A- experience to an A.  It will take more critical listening determine further benefits and I look forward to trying the balanced connection and using the Z1 with some larger headphones (and will answer my own question about how the Z1 plays with the Stellia).

For anyone else that has the Z1, in some of the marketing materials they should two dials being displayed (displaying sound levels?) on the Z1's screen.  I haven't been able to locate this display at all and couldn't find any reference to it in the product manual.  Has anyone had any luck activating this display mode or was it something that only exists in marketing materials?


----------



## coolhand (Apr 27, 2019)

_


   "I haven't been able to locate this display at all and couldn't find any reference to it in the product manual."
_
Tap the toolbox icon on the bottom right to open the Settings menu, select the third option which is Change Playback Screen, the third option is Analog Level Meter which displays dual analog styled meters


----------



## bmichels

markt1600 said:


> So I went ahead and purchased the DMP-Z1 and have had a chance to play with it a bit.
> 
> Still in the early stages of testing but one of the fun things I've done is gone back and forth between battery and AC mode with various headphones.  Using battery power _significantly_ reduces the noise floor with the IEMs that I've been testing.  As someone very sensitive to any kind of background static or noise of any kind, this alone may have justified the cost of entry.  I'm somewhat concerned about battery life and the possibility of the batteries degrading overtime but Sato-san assured me at Canjam that it is no different from the rest of the Walkman series - it will be easy to send the unit in for battery replacement should it be needed.
> 
> ...



Congratulations for your purchase. Enjoy your new toy.


----------



## markt1600

Had a brief session with the Stellias and the DMP-Z1 today and came away extremely impressed with the combination.

The Stellias were well powered and (as expected), there was plenty of low end power and slam, without being overwhelmingly bassy.  Some headphones have a tendency to emphasize the upper/mid-bass registers but the Focals are more neutral in this regard and accurately convey the bass notes to be able to feel the music.

The resolving power of the headphones was what impressed me the most though.  There was separation and clarity in the music without any trace of sibillance.  One of the tracks that I often use to test music is the Theme from Jurassic Park - partly because I know it well and partly because it has great dynamic range.  What shocked me as I listened to this track was not the music itself but what I could suddenly hear in the background - instruments and chairs shifting as the musicians started to get ready to play.  I had never heard this detail before and had to listen to the track a few times before I realized what I was hearing!  

Look forward to testing more but thought I would post these quick impressions.


----------



## markt1600

coolhand said:


> _   "I haven't been able to locate this display at all and couldn't find any reference to it in the product manual."
> _
> Tap the toolbox icon on the bottom right to open the Settings menu, select the third option which is Change Playback Screen, the third option is Analog Level Meter which displays dual analog styled meters



Thank you so much!  That did the trick and completely missed this option!


----------



## STAXNBSAK380

Hi


Would like to share my impression with my new Sony DMP-Z1


My actual System:
AK SP1000 copper as streamer -> through USB-C to -> Sony DMP-1Z as DAC -> through NBS III single ended Chinch to -> STAX SRM-007tII powered by NBS III powercable -> STAX SR-007 Mk2 Headphone


Incredible better sound quality than AK SP1000 alone concerning both streaming audio and HD Files from the internal drive.


Until I bought the Sony DMP Z1 I prefered downloaded HD Files by all means and I extremely rately listened to streamed music.


But using the Astell & Kern as streaming resource and the Z1 as a DAC -> the world changed -> astonishing!!!


I have incredible fun and High End moments with Tidals HIFI sound quality through the mentioned hardware konfiguration.


Body and soul, power and warmth, fine, descrete details, clear and dirty if needed -> that is all to say about.


By the way -> best portable HighRES Player at the moment -> Sony DMP-Z1


The only problem I have at the moment - far too few time to listen to


----------



## yanfeng

STAXNBSAK380 said:


> Hi
> 
> My actual System:
> AK SP1000 copper as streamer -> through USB-C to -> Sony DMP-1Z as DAC -> through NBS III single ended Chinch to -> STAX SRM-007tII powered by NBS III powercable -> STAX SR-007 Mk2 Headphone



Why the use of SP1000 as streamer? Wouldn't a big screen phone or pad better for navigation while offering the same quality USB out?


----------



## yanfeng (May 5, 2019)

I have recently subsribed to Tidal hifi service. I used Tidal Adroid app on Huawei P20 pro and connect it to Z1 through bluetooth LDAC mode. The sound quality is sensational! Much better than Apple Music. LDAC has the transfer rate of 990Kbps, which is a lot better than aptX. Z1's support of LDAC along with other modes is such a plus and it makes life a lot easier. Strongly recommend those who have Z1 check with your phone to see if it support LDAC and try connecting to Z1 through this mode.


----------



## markt1600

Have tried connecting to the Z1 via LDAC and concur with the above.  One wish would be if the Z1 could display the actual LDAC transfer rate the connection is currently operating at though?  I understand that the max transfer rate is 990Kbps but the actual transfer rate could be less depending on stability of the connection?


----------



## yanfeng

markt1600 said:


> Have tried connecting to the Z1 via LDAC and concur with the above.  One wish would be if the Z1 could display the actual LDAC transfer rate the connection is currently operating at though?  I understand that the max transfer rate is 990Kbps but the actual transfer rate could be less depending on stability of the connection?



I wish the same so that I can see the real bitrate of Tidal. I think even if the transfer rate of LDAC drops to something around 600Kbps, it's still OK as that's the birate of lossless FLAC format.


----------



## bmichels (May 5, 2019)

yanfeng said:


> I have recently subsribed to Tidal hifi service. I used Tidal Adroid app on Huawei P20 pro and connect it to Z1 through bluetooth LDAC mode. The sound quality is sensational! Much better than Apple Music. LDAC has the transfer rate of 990Kbps, which is a lot better than aptX. Z1's support of LDAC along with other modes is such a plus and it makes life a lot easier. Strongly recommend those who have Z1 check with your phone to see if it support LDAC and try connecting to Z1 through this mode.



very interesting. this may solve the issue of lack of Wifi Streaming by the DMP-Z1 !  but... I wonder if streaming Tidal through BT is really as good as through USB-C and a High-End streaming device ?

Also, this very fast & good BT connection show that SONY could develop an APP to drive the playback, with the APP using BT connection instead of WiFi. 

--> So pleasssseee... SONY, write us an iPAD or Android APP (like A&K Connect or Aurender's Conductor)


----------



## Sp12er3 (May 6, 2019)

@nanaholic









Holy hell that's heck of a multi kilobucks of  stuffs to sling around! 

IER Z1R tucked inside one of those pockets I can fathom. But to have the MDR Z1R hang like that just makes an alarm blaring in my head nonstop! Hahah


----------



## Sp12er3 (May 6, 2019)

markt1600 said:


> Have tried connecting to the Z1 via LDAC and concur with the above.  One wish would be if the Z1 could display the actual LDAC transfer rate the connection is currently operating at though?  I understand that the max transfer rate is 990Kbps but the actual transfer rate could be less depending on stability of the connection?


I think those connection bit rates are set using the source device rather than the receiver, check your phone/ DAP Bluetooth setting, you can put whether to choose LDAC quality or stability priority in it.


----------



## bmichels

With the A&K SP2000, SONY may have here a real competitor ! expecially if you consider that A&K offer WiFi streaming that the DMP-Z1 is lacking !

It will mark its debut this week at Munich.


----------



## purk

So excited for the price war!


----------



## Blueoris

Sp12er3 said:


> @nanaholic
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In 20 years time people will make fun of this.


----------



## purk

Blueoris said:


> In 20 years time people will make fun of this.


I don’t think we need to wait that long.....


----------



## tunes

Whitigir said:


> DMP-Z1 is the product in it own category.  It isn’t quiet desktop capable, but it is far superior to DAPS in driving full-size headphones
> 
> The DMP-Z1 is like the mother of WM1Z, except the tonal body is a little more different as the warmth is intruding into the treble and high spectrum as well.  The Wm1Z at least is more balanced and natural uptop.  Having desktop system myself, and different portables.  I still don’t see the reason to grab the 1Z.  I do appreciate the people who buy it up though.  Keep stocking Sony, so the giant will wake up


Has anyone compared the  DMP-Z1 with CHORD DAVE with and without the Mscaler?


----------



## Whitigir (May 15, 2019)

tunes said:


> Has anyone compared the  DMP-Z1 with CHORD DAVE with and without the Mscaler?



I tried Z1 and Chord Dave at Canjam.  They were of very similar signatures, and almost about the same tier.  It would need some private and critical time at home to do a throughout comparison, which I can not do.  However, while the DMP-Z1 would positively impress me, the Dave did not.  I think the reason was that because DMP-Z1 was portable or possible to be, and Dave is not.  You can take that with less than a grain of salt as it was not a critical section of listening impressions or comparisons between the 2.  It was more or less a rough line out and quick judge to justify the price point on both device


----------



## KaiserTK

Comparing the DMP-Z1 and Dave is inevitable price wise, but function wise they serve very different purposes imo.

I’ve had a chance to test the Dave numerous times over at the SourceAV and the DMP-Z1 in Denver, LA, Osaka, and Tokyo; and I like both almost equally but from different ways of usage.

DMP sounded pretty lackluster when I paired it with Sennheisers or harder to drive planars (on the 4.4 out; forget the 3.5 out and pretend it doesn’t exist). Where the DMP shines is when paired with IEMs (and easier to drive HPs) like Sony’s M9/Z1R which I thought sounded severely underpowered through the WM1A/1Z. 

I think an easier comparison would be against the TAZ. I a/b’d them using my 1A and using the USB Dac function (LDAC is not bad but still has a lot more it could improve on). What stood out to me most is how the DMP had a clearer holographic image (the best rendition of Sony’s house analog tuning) and overall warmth was increased by adding a bit more body in the low-end. 

Out of all the Dac filters and DSP options, I liked ‘Slow’ and Direct Source the most. IER-Z1R probably was my favorite pairing, where it had a nice balance between a fun ‘w-signature’ and retaining coherent imaging/lack of bloating. 

If I had the option to take either the Dave or DMP home right now, I would probably pick the DMP. Hope this helps a bit.


----------



## Whitigir

KaiserTK said:


> Comparing the DMP-Z1 and Dave is inevitable price wise, but function wise they serve very different purposes imo.
> 
> I’ve had a chance to test the Dave numerous times over at the SourceAV and the DMP-Z1 in Denver, LA, Osaka, and Tokyo; and I like both almost equally but from different ways of usage.
> 
> ...



Yes, and I agree with your points.  The DMP serves many purposes well, but lack input options or streaming capabilities


----------



## Audiophile2019

Folks, today I was lucky enough to demo DMP-Z1 at one Sony store here in downtown KL.. I must admit I'm not impressed..


----------



## Whitigir

Audiophile2019 said:


> Folks, today I was lucky enough to demo DMP-Z1 at one Sony store here in downtown KL.. I must admit I'm not impressed..


Why are you not impressed


----------



## Audiophile2019 (May 19, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> Why are you not impressed


I was comparing it against WM1Z, WM1A and my own ZX300.. Using Z1R and Z7M2 over-the-ear headphones.. It sound rather thin.. Besides sound quality, its DSEE-HX function only has on/off button, no selector for standard, male vocal, etc...


----------



## Whitigir

Audiophile2019 said:


> I was comparing it against WM1Z, WM1A and my own ZX300.. Using Z1R and Z7M2 over-the-ear headphones.. It sound rather thin..



DMP-Z1 isn’t thin sounding, especially with MDR Z1R.  But thanks for the respond


----------



## Jalo

The Dmp-Z1 is on the cleaner or neutral side that is why it pairs well with phones that are warmer or with thicker sound like Z1R, Vega, Atlas, Empirean etc. I wrote earlier that the DMP-Z1 to me has a high end sound and it’s sound character is very refine.But at times it does feel like it is lacking some body to it.  kaiserKT is correct in saying that the DMP is lacking of power for a semi desktop system. it is fine with most iems and many full-size headphones, but with many of the planers like LCD4, Hifiman HE1000 etc,  the DMP can make them sound but not sing.


----------



## Audiophile2019

Jalo said:


> The Dmp-Z1 is on the cleaner or neutral side that is why it pairs well with phones that are warmer or with thicker sound like Z1R, Vega, Atlas, Empirean etc. I wrote earlier that the DMP-Z1 to me has a high end sound and it’s sound character is very refine.But at times it does feel like it is lacking some body to it.  kaiserKT is correct in saying that the DMP is lacking of power for a semi desktop system. it is fine with most iems and many full-size headphones, but with many of the planers like LCD4, Hifiman HE1000 etc,  the DMP can make them sound but not sing.


It's quite different from WM1Z & ZX300 which have warm tone..


----------



## Jalo

Audiophile2019 said:


> It's quite different from WM1Z & ZX300 which have warm tone..


Very well said.  The only quality missing with the WM1Z which is the same as the DMP is the relative lower output power. The recent crop of DAPs all have much higher amping power. Like the Cayin N8, Ibasso DX220, LPGT etc. with the most rediculous one being the AK Khan Cube. The Khan Cube has 12 Vrms that is equal to a whopping 4.8 watts into 30 ohm, 3.6 watts into 40 ohm, 2.4 watts into 60 ohm and even at 100 ohm it will give 1.4 watts of driving power. In addition to these amazing driving power, the unit used for these rating is Volt per root mean square (rms), meaning that the rating refers to is average driving power and not peak or maximum power something very different from ratings that use maximum output. In other words let say if it is a 6 Vrms into 30 ohm it will have 1.2 watt but in critical moment it will actually deliver 1.7 watts of power giving much better headroom.


----------



## Whitigir

Jalo said:


> Very well said.  The only quality missing with the WM1Z which is the same as the DMP is the relative lower output power. The recent crop of DAPs all have much higher amping power. Like the Cayin N8, Ibasso DX220, LPGT etc. with the most rediculous one being the AK Khan Cube. The Khan Cube has 12 Vrms that is equal to a whopping 4.8 watts into 30 ohm, 3.6 watts into 40 ohm, 2.4 watts into 60 ohm and even at 100 ohm it will give 1.4 watts of driving power. In addition to these amazing driving power, the unit used for these rating is Volt per root mean square (rms), meaning that the rating refers to is average driving power and not peak or maximum power something very different from ratings that use maximum output. In other words let say if it is a 6 Vrms into 30 ohm it will have 1.2 watt but in critical moment it will actually deliver 1.7 watts of power giving much better headroom.



Yeah, I too have been thinking that Kann Cube is pretty impressive for it driving power.  Given the price, I think it is a perfect one to modify to taste and so on.  The price of DMP Z1 is pretty hard to swallow, and lacking streaming capability as well


----------



## Jalo

In term of modification and given your skill, I will pay to have you put a 4.4 connector on the Khan for me,, especially when they already have a 5 pin mine xlr. Let’s don’t go OT too much.


----------



## nanaholic (May 19, 2019)

Jalo said:


> The Khan Cube has 12 Vrms that is equal to a whopping 4.8 watts into 30 ohm, 3.6 watts into 40 ohm, 2.4 watts into 60 ohm and even at 100 ohm it will give 1.4 watts of driving power.



It doesn't equal to any of that - since the official spec is 12 Vrms into *no load *(per AK tradition, none of their output power spec has load attached). You cannot derive the other numbers by swapping the resistance number when the original spec gives no load condition which is literally a divide by zero error.

No one will know AK player's number unless they actually measure it with a load attached - AK's official spec had and still is absolutely useless yet people just keeps repeating it.


----------



## Whitigir (May 19, 2019)

Ohm laws is a laws isn’t it ? Doesn’t matter what language you speak, the DMP-Z1 is not as powerful as it appear, a hybrid desktop-Portable Device.  Especially when compared to KANN Cube


----------



## Jalo (May 19, 2019)

nanaholic said:


> It doesn't equal to any of that - since the official spec is 12 Vrms into *no load *(per AK tradition, none of their output power spec has load attached). You cannot derive the other numbers by swapping the resistance number when the original spec gives no load condition which is literally a divide by zero error.
> 
> No one will know AK player's number unless they actually measure it with a load attached - AK's official spec had and still is absolutely useless yet people just keeps repeating it.



“Condition No Load” Is a number and a known variable just like Zero is a number. When the resistance is known as in Ohm then you can convert it into wattage. Because of my interest in the Khan Cube I wanted to know exactly how much power (12Vrms) are we talking about, I specifically consulted an electrical engineer from IIT, those were the numbers we came up with under different loaded conditions. Remember from no load which is zero to different loading like 30 ohm or 60 ohm is a known linear variable that can be used in the conversion.  I will post the formula for that conversion when I return home later today.

As for the unit measurement of root means square (RMS) it refers to the measurement of constant and sustained power supply as oppose to the common term of maximum milliwatt per channel that is based on peak to peak calculation. So 250 milliwatt per channel may actually mean that the channel is capable of reaching up to 250 mW even for a split second but in actuality it may be running only 200 mW on a constant basis. On the contrary, when root means square is used as a measurement, it is only talking about average power supply for a given channel, it is not talking about maximum capability and in fact for any root mean square you can add a factor of 0.719 to the measurement representing headroom or swing for that channel.  Let say for instance a 6 Vrms into 30 ohm will give 1.2 watt of average driving power, but in times of need for dynamic swing like when the cannon in 1812 concerto kicks in, it can go up to 1.7 watt as maximum power with an additional factor of 0.719.


----------



## Jalo

So the formula for converting Vrms into wattage is as follows:

Power output in Wattage = (Vrms)(Vrms)/R where R is resistant in Ohm. So let say an amp output is 6 Vrms and it is driving a 36 ohm headphone, then 6 Vrms squared is 36 divided by the resistance of 36 ohm, the power output in Wattage is 1 watt.

Then to convert the average power output into peak or maximum output, using the above sample, you would divide the 1 Watt by a factor of 0.7071 and the peak output of this amp is 1.41Watt. The factor 0.7071 is a technical definition for converting average output into peak output.


----------



## markt1600

Whitigir said:


> DMP-Z1 isn’t thin sounding, especially with MDR Z1R.  But thanks for the respond



Want to echo this as I found the DMP-Z1 to very much possess Sony's "house" sound which leans towards warmth.  Have been listening to the Z1 fairly extensively over the last month or so and have come to better understand its sound signature in ways that I wasn't able to appreciate during in store or CanJam listening.

First, have realized that the balanced out is far superior to the unbalanced out and think that if you have a choice, there's no reason to use the unbalanced out (which also only outputs 1/3 the power).

Second, the DMP-Z1 excels in its imperceptible noise floor and dynamic range - both of these take a quiet listening environment to observe but you are richly rewarded in detail.  Hearing music go from blackness to full orchestral swing, or feeling the slam of hip-hop, is where the Z1 is truly able to shine.

Let's face it - at this price point, the differences are extremely subtle and there is no bang for the buck.  But when you are listening for the details, the Z1 provides them.


----------



## nanaholic (May 20, 2019)

@Jalo

I know exactly how you come up with the numbers, but you are applying the equations wrongly.

There are multiple websites which has the conversion formulas programmed in and you can check them easily, such as these below:
https://www.analog.com/designtools/ru/toolbox/dbconvert
https://owenduffy.net/calc/voltcnv.htm

The numbers you came up with is only you holding Vrms constant while changing the resistance value - but that is WRONG and not how the circuit and the application of the formula works.

To show this let's take Chord Hugo 2's specs, which they handily provide three values:
94mW @ 300ohms
740mW @ 32ohms
1050mW @ 8ohms

If you plug in the numbers you get Vrms values as follows:
300ohms > 5.31Vrms
32ohms > 4.866Vrms
8ohms > 2.898Vrms

As you can clearly see, the Vrms values fluctuates GREATLY depending on the load being attached. This is why you cannot hold the assumption that 12Vrms under no load means it is 12Vrms for every other resistance value you then attach to it. And this is why your numbers are not just wrong, but MASSIVELY wrong.

Also for fun please try 12Vrms @ 0ohms (ie no load), note how it throws errors... because as I said - it's a divide by zero equation. No load means infinite amount of current just by simply applying Ohm's Law, and since power equals voltage x current, if you have infinite current it means you have infinite power... see how this doesn't work?

To see some more let's have a look at how AK's previous flagship measures up:
https://www.avhub.com.au/product-re...-ak380-portable-music-playerdac-review-414055

These's guys had measured the AK380 output (unbalance and balance for AK380 is supposedly 2.1Vrms unbalanced and 2.3Vrms balanced no load) with 50mW @ 32ohms. Again if you plug the numbers in the Vrms at this level is 1.265 - way off from the 2.1Vrms no load condition.

You also have these guys measuring the AK300 series amp's balanced output:
https://reference-audio-analyzer.pr...hp?id=1498&page=amp-astell-kern-ak380-amp-bal
In the high gain mode you have 94.48mW into 32ohms, and 11.29mW into 300ohms. Converted this gives 1.7Vrms and 1.84Vrms respectively - again FAR from the 8Vrms no load condition as specified officially.

To get a useful data point you must have the power output as well as a normal load attached before you can apply the Vrms to mw conversion. A Vrms no load condition simply cannot be used to infer the other power output levels.



Whitigir said:


> Ohm laws is a laws isn’t it ? Doesn’t matter what language you speak, the DMP-Z1 is not as powerful as it appear, a hybrid desktop-Portable Device.  Especially when compared to KANN Cube



That is not the point and is irrelevant to the DMP-Z1. The point is that Jalo is applying the Ohm Law wrongly and that AK's numbers are actually meaningless.

AK is the only manufacturer who publish output power with no load - every single other manufacturer at least specify one (or multiple) load conditions. People need to call AK out on this misleading marketing approach.


----------



## Jalo (May 20, 2019)

@nanaholic, I appreciate your raising the issue of application of the formula, I guess our differences lie with the concept of constant.  Generally speaking, If one just look at a formula with three variables, it is true That if two of the three variables are known then the value of the third variable can be known. It is also true that by varying any two variables you can change the value of the third variable. And that is what you did with the application of the formula above by plunging in two of the three variables thereby changing the value of the Vrms and what you did is accurate in general terms except the following:

Let me prefaced it by saying I am not a fan boy of AK and I do not have any inside connections with AK to know what those published value means other than what is being published on their website.  I actually own two WM1Z, one WM1A and the Z1R to give you some perspective and I do not feel any urge to defend AK at all.  My only interest is to understand and get good sound.

Having said that, when I read “12 Vrms, Condition No Load” to me it simply means that is the value of the device, Khan, AK 380 or whatever the device happens to be by circuitry design without any load. So to me of the three variables:

A. Vrms of the device by circuitry design
B. Resistance in Ohm
C. Output power in Wattage

One can vary variable B by changing headphones with different impedance value, one can also change Valuable C for any amount a person wants or desires by varying valuable A and B. What we cannot change is the circuitry by design inside the Khan, AK380, SP1000 etc. that produce the Vrms under no load condition hence I hold variable A (Vrms) constant.  Without assuming variable A is constant you are correct by varying B and C variable A (Vrms) has to be different. I will be happy to agree with you if my assumption that the stated Vrms is not derived by hardware design. But if the Vrms value is produce by hardware design then one must hold it constant and my application of the formula is accurate. I can only assume that the volt root mean square (Vrms) is a value produced by the amplifier circuitry otherwise what else could have generate the power in a dap if not for the hardware and that is why you cannot reverse the formula to come up with different Vrms because we cannot alter the hardware inside the circuitry.

Those websites that you cited for power calculations is accurate but they do not know or take the assumption that one of the Variable cannot be varied.


----------



## jonstatt

ekindangen said:


> By the way, for those who happen to receive a gift of DMP Z1 from Japan (very lucky you) or for those who can't wait to get the official version in their country and ended up buying one in Japan (that's me), there is a way to change the language from Japanese to one of your liking. The nice developer at rockbox.org has updated their dest tool program to recognize DMP Z1. I used it successfully by choosing dest E and SPS off. Here's the page where you can find the tool: https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWDestTool#Getting_the_tool
> 
> Thank you pamaury.



This means they put a volume cap on the EU version for a device like this? I really wonder why Sony needs to do this when other manufacturers don’t seem to


----------



## nanaholic

Jalo said:


> @nanaholic
> Those websites that you cited for power calculations is accurate but they do not know or take the assumption that one of the Variable cannot be varied.



That's because that is the correct assumption those websites are making.

You are assuming that either the current or voltage (Vrms) is going to be constant when changing the resistant yet in the real world there is NO linear relationship between the three variables - as demonstrated by the real world Chord Hugo 2 numbers and the AK device measurements. A linear relationship with a variable load is only possible in an ideal circuit, which none of the real world devices are. In reality the relationship of the load vs power for all these devices are actually highly non-linear. This is why all your calculations are wrong and your assumption about the KANN Cube outputs are wrong because we know for sure that these devices cannot produce a perfectly linear relationship between the 3 variables (the AK devices even has a massive dropoff in power output when a low impedance load is attach). Your wall of text doesn't explain anything at all.


----------



## Whitigir (May 22, 2019)

Woa...I didn’t know there are 5x super-capacitors inside the DMP-Z1.  Here are some FCC pictures
https://fccid.io/AK8DMPZ1/Internal-Photos/04-Internal-Photo-4022515


----------



## skr3328

My unit just arrived and I really like its compact design and mobility. It is a desktop device that I can carry to the office or bedroom. Great!




 

Or I can carry it on metro? just kidding


----------



## Whitigir

I like that Belt style....but why black out your face ? .  It will need a long time burning in ! Enjoy !


----------



## jonstatt

I don’t like the fact that the black glossy sections are not glass. It is the type of finish that scratches just by looking at it wrongly


----------



## Whitigir

jonstatt said:


> I don’t like the fact that the black glossy sections are not glass. It is the type of finish that scratches just by looking at it wrongly


Lol, is that so ? How about some plastic wrapping like car windows tints?


----------



## Audiophile2019

skr3328 said:


> My unit just arrived and I really like its compact design and mobility. It is a desktop device that I can carry to the office or bedroom. Great!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really envy you, bro..


----------



## skr3328

Whitigir said:


> I like that Belt style....but why black out your face ? .  It will need a long time burning in ! Enjoy !


I got this used unit(only 35 hrs running time) for 5500 usd and I think it is quite a good deal. Now I have sold all my dap dac and amp. Z1 killed all my desire on upgrading audio stuff.


----------



## Whitigir

skr3328 said:


> I got this used unit(only 35 hrs running time) for 5500 usd and I think it is quite a good deal. Now I have sold all my dap dac and amp. Z1 killed all my desire on upgrading audio stuff.


That is awesome deal! Congratulation


----------



## skr3328

Whitigir said:


> That is awesome deal! Congratulation


I heard that some guy who is close to the Sony distributor could have big discount here in China, like 5000 usd for brand new one.


----------



## Whitigir

skr3328 said:


> I heard that some guy who is close to the Sony distributor could have big discount here in China, like 5000 usd for brand new one.


What? Are you serious ? From “close”, did you mean some one who had internal connections to Sony teams ? Or living close by ?


----------



## skr3328

Whitigir said:


> What? Are you serious ? From “close”, did you mean some one who had internal connections to Sony teams ? Or living close by ?


Yes some guy who have internal connections or very familiar with the dealer. In China a lot of Sony authorized distributors are small business men and the Z1 is too expensive to sell so the dealer would sell it for a much lower price than the official tag price rather than to keep the expensive brick in stock.


----------



## Whitigir (May 25, 2019)

skr3328 said:


> Yes some guy who have internal connections or very familiar with the dealer. In China a lot of Sony authorized distributors are small business men and the Z1 is too expensive to sell so the dealer would sell it for a much lower price than the official tag price rather than to keep the expensive brick in stock.


That is what I thought, but for as low as 5k, that is awesome though.  I don’t think you can find them easily at that price.  Thank you for the updates.  I know Sony always allow discounts at special events, and especially “shows” in Asia, and that means the dealer can lower the price further as Sony is willing to rebate toward the dealer.  Such device like DMP for around 5k is an excellent deal, though I don’t think you can easily find that (unless internal connections), especially if there is no official discount from Sony itself.  I am still excited over your find of DMP at such price .  Congratulation !


----------



## Whitigir (May 25, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> I will leave the EE discussion aside.....but the DMP-Z1 cand definitely be built better with those large spaces and price point, and that is from my technical standpoint
> 
> Anyways, there gotta be room for the next successor , isn’t it
> 
> Modifications can always be done



I have looked over the DMP so many times, and now it turned out that I was wrong as the opened unit that showed the internal boards and so on were just prototypes to show.  Those empty spaces are for fitting the battery, and 5X super capacitors.  1 main and big super capacitor for Digital Supply and 1 each of smaller super capacitors for each signal lines L+ L- R+ R-.  This makes the DMP to have the most decked out design under the same Walkman language that is using super capacitors.  Even the WM1Z has only 1 Super Capacitor and a few count of upgraded Electrolytic caps together with a few F resistors.

One of the main point of DMP is the usage of PML capacitors that is from Rubycon as everyone has known, a manufacturers who made legendary BlackGate caps.  Two main properties of Capacitors that affect sound quality is Piezoelectric and frequency retentions.  Piezoelectric makes jitters as vibration would cause noises that can affect the electricity under Jitter and Mechanical too, this is how any crystal oscillators would work.  Frequency retentions is the property that when an energy being stored as charge/discharge, it alternate the frequency, and this property is what being utilized to construct low/high pass filter in digital world.  These are the main reasons why capacitors are so important for digital music reproductions.

F-resistors, while sharing some similar electronic properties that can also affect sound quality such as frequency retentions, but most importantly is the precision tolerances.  F-Resistors are the highest tolerances in the industry standards.

Both of those are the main things that make DMP unique.  It is unique in a way that Sony is paying attentions to the littlest details that people would over look.  Most importantly is that both PML caps and F-resistors are never readily available off the shelves.  Especially if you want a specific values and sizes, you would have to place special orders, and even so, not all values are customizable, you are going to be designing your devices under a way that no one had gone through to compensate for those Not available components if you wanted to use them everywhere like DMP.

So, if it isn’t Sony, the most respectable member in Japan, a frontier of digital foundfather, a Giant in the industry with every brilliant engineering team and experiences in the industry.  Who else is capable of such feast ?

Another thing that is interesting is Artificial intelligent to analyze music in order to reconstruct it better.  Why is it important ? Well because whatever is essential to Digital is and has always been the algorithms, and therefore, next to any thoughtful hardware engineering, the firmware and the algorithms are the next.  But what can be better than an Artificial Intelligent with Deep Learning ? Who else out there is able to pull this off ?  Digital is still in the early stage of development, and Sony is polishing it

Sony isn’t playing around with the DMP, not only it exercise the engineering and the ability to build what Sony want to build, it also is a statement piece that challenges others in the industry with innovations and enthusiasms.

For all that said, I am not advertising or convincing anyone.....those are what I thought to myself through many of the debates from left brains vs right brains....etc....I will be joining the club soon


----------



## nanaholic

https://www.sony.com/electronics/dmp-z1-interview

I kept telling both Sato-san that they should translate their engineering interviews into English, looks like they took my advice.


----------



## nanaholic (May 25, 2019)

jonstatt said:


> I don’t like the fact that the black glossy sections are not glass. It is the type of finish that scratches just by looking at it wrongly



They actually did considered using glass at first, but changed back to aluminium because they needed the shielding, which is why they founded a way to polish and anodize the aluminium to look like glass.

While it looks like it will scratch easily it shouldn't as it is just like any anodizing technique that is applied to aluminium gear to make them more durable. The major issue is rather it is such a magnet for finger prints.


----------



## Sp12er3 (May 25, 2019)

skr3328 said:


> My unit just arrived and I really like its compact design and mobility. It is a desktop device that I can carry to the office or bedroom. Great!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I particularly like how the IER Z1R got reflected clearly on the gold dial there, 
Observing the beauty of the two device in their own, unique way 

I guess it's time to invest on one of these?





https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/vd984/


nanaholic said:


> https://www.sony.com/electronics/dmp-z1-interview
> 
> I kept telling both Sato-san that they should translate their engineering interviews into English, looks like they took my advice.


Nice~ would spare some time to read through it.

A couple tidbits from it:
"Tanaka:
The result of our efforts was a system where the DMP-Z1 switches power modes automatically based on the playback status and remaining battery. If you set it to battery mode, it will continue to operate in battery mode even when connected to the AC adapter, and won't use the adapter. Then when the charge is low it will automatically switch to AC mode (charging mode)." 
That'd confuses people that intend to charge it while using it, hahah.

"This power source structure means that the optimum setting for the DMP-Z1 in terms of audio quality is battery-power mode at normal-gain. In this mode, the audio circuit with positive and negative power sources is driven by clean, noiseless power from the batteries, without using a DC/DC converter. This power-circuit arrangement, unique to the DMP-Z1, enables this special operation mode. Amongst audiophiles there's an urban legend that high gain gives a better sound even with ordinary headphones, but that's certainly not on this product, at least"
Interesting, the design seem to really on doing everything to lowers noise interference.


----------



## jonstatt (May 26, 2019)

nanaholic said:


> They actually did considered using glass at first, but changed back to aluminium because they needed the shielding, which is why they founded a way to polish and anodize the aluminium to look like glass.
> 
> While it looks like it will scratch easily it shouldn't as it is just like any anodizing technique that is applied to aluminium gear to make them more durable. The major issue is rather it is such a magnet for finger prints.



This is a very similar finish to what Apple did with the iPhone for one year only, polishing the aluminium until it was super glossy. It didn’t scratch quite as easily as plastic but it still scratched relatively easily. Apple stopped doing that finish. The two Z1s I have seen had some micro abrasions out of the box but only seen under very bright light at a certain angle.

For home use it’s probably fine but if you are sliding it in and out of a case over and over then I would be concerned


----------



## nanaholic (May 26, 2019)

jonstatt said:


> This is a very similar finish to what Apple did with the iPhone for one year only, polishing the aluminium until it was super glossy. It didn’t scratch quite as easily as plastic but it still scratched relatively easily. Apple stopped doing that finish. The two Z1s I have seen had some micro abrasions out of the box but only seen under very bright light at a certain angle.
> 
> For home use it’s probably fine but if you are sliding it in and out of a case over and over then I would be concerned



A phone is different though because it gets put in and pull out of pockets and bags which are full of micro particles which people don't know about. Plus the iPhone 7 Jet Black is 3 years old, the tech is probably not the same anymore.

I don't see any one putting something on top of the DMP-Z1 for the top to get scratched. When I don't use mine I put a cloth on top of it but that's because I'm paranoid plus it keeps the dust off the device. I know Sato-san uses the Van Nuys sling bag for his very own DMP-Z1 which he carries with him daily, and his machine looks fine.


----------



## jonstatt

nanaholic said:


> A phone is different though because it gets put in and pull out of pockets and bags which are full of micro particles which people don't know about. Plus the iPhone 7 Jet Black is 3 years old, the tech is probably not the same anymore.
> 
> I don't see any one putting something on top of the DMP-Z1 for the top to get scratched. When I don't use mine I put a cloth on top of it but that's because I'm paranoid plus it keeps the dust off the device. I know Sato-san uses the Van Nuys sling bag for his very own DMP-Z1 which he carries with him daily, and his machine looks fine.



I suspect Sato-san just doesn’t look too closely and is not ocd about these things! Both the Z1s I have seen had micro abrasions on the back near the usb socket and in the front near the headphone socket despite not being used but the light has to catch it....it’s not that obvious. Are the vertical panels also aluminium? The top and bottom plates looked fine. I suspect that the front and back are more likely to get marked during production as the pcb needs to be aligned to the panels.


----------



## KaiserTK

nanaholic said:


> A phone is different though because it gets put in and pull out of pockets and bags which are full of micro particles which people don't know about. Plus the iPhone 7 Jet Black is 3 years old, the tech is probably not the same anymore.
> 
> I don't see any one putting something on top of the DMP-Z1 for the top to get scratched. When I don't use mine I put a cloth on top of it but that's because I'm paranoid plus it keeps the dust off the device. I know Sato-san uses the Van Nuys sling bag for his very own DMP-Z1 which he carries with him daily, and his machine looks fine.



Didn’t Sato have an exclusive copper-chassis DMP for himself? That would be stupidly heavy to carry around in a sling!


----------



## Whitigir

KaiserTK said:


> Didn’t Sato have an exclusive copper-chassis DMP for himself? That would be stupidly heavy to carry around in a sling!


Lol! Actually that was what I thought, but you are right! It would probably weight around 10kg ? LoL


----------



## purk

All these talks about the Z1 are making me jealous.....just saying.


----------



## Peter Hyatt

purk said:


> All these talks about the Z1 are making me jealous.....just saying.




The first step is to admit you, nay, we, have a problem.


----------



## bmichels (May 27, 2019)

Peter Hyatt said:


> The first step is to admit you, nay, we, have a problem.



So... I also have a problem !


----------



## Whitigir (May 28, 2019)

I also *found out why the DMP uses AK4497EQ*, and it isn’t all about the S-Master VS AK4497EQ in sound performances and or power output.  It is true that S-Master has pretty low output, but doesn’t mean it can’t be made any more powerful.  The TA-ZH1ES is the most powerful S-Master and that is a proof.

_The real reason is because S-Master is Direct Digital amplifications so it isn’t capable with straight 1bit DSD_, and Sony *wanted to fit* (DSD-remastering Engine) on the DMP.  In order to fit it on S-Master, Sony needed another DAC, and that is the FPGA inside the TA-ZH1ES.  So, if the DMP was to have the same, it would need 2 additional circuits, to amplify the S-Master output and to fit in FPGA.  While this goal could be achieved, it would trade off for 3 things : become much bigger and bulky, battery life would be heavily affected with DSD-Remastering engine on, and additional noises.....simply put, to pull something off like TA-ZH1ES in the form of portability was impossible.....so Sony opted out for the next best thing, the AK4497EQ.

It isn’t easy to make this decision, and especially as proud as Sony is about their products.  This is an excellent statement that Sony made “I would stop at no obstacles, and I would make anything possible in order to achieve my goal”.  Yes, while the DAC is the main purposes of Marketing ploy, people primarily blamed and disappointed at Sony, but if you love Sony enough, then you would want the real reason.  _Beside, you may be right that the AK4497EQ is an off the shelves components....but you can not find other things inside the DMP that is off the shelves (oh***maybe the TPA***)_....not even the RK-50 as it is Sony customized attenuators as well.

_*If you think and know*_ that DSP or Digital Signal Processing and it interfaces is just as important as the DAC itself, then you should have known that Sony DSP are inside the TA-ZH1ES, WM-1Z, and DMP.  The only differences is that the WM1Z can not have DSD-Remastering engine turned on as the S-Master couldn’t process it

The next thing people would be concerned about is why TPA amplification IC for the DMP ? Why not discrete ? Well, the TPA is like a discrete Amplifiers, but it is in the form of an IC (miniaturized) and it is class A-B itself.  _*So, the question is how could you squeeze everything out of it while staying true to your preferences (Sony house sound ?) and using all the F-resistors, electrolytic Caps, and PML Caps that are all dedicated to the music itself ?* This is only Sony _


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> So... I also have a problem !


And which one of us has the worse of them all ? I will need helps soon, I need an audio addict helps center


----------



## Whitigir (May 30, 2019)

How do I help this addiction problem of mine ? Spoil the Brat!

Charges up pretty fast to what I see.  It is 0% out of the box, plugged in and started music right away with DSD remastering engine, only 90 minutes to 75%




About 2 hours and 30 minutes to charge up to full


----------



## bmichels (May 30, 2019)

Very tempted but fortunatly ( for my Wallet ); *No Streaming, No sales.  
*
Indeed now 50% of my listening are streaming rater than local.  And with Qobuz sublime (24 bits streaming), most of the Time I can’t hear à différence.

Sony is going against history !


----------



## Whitigir (May 30, 2019)

Walking around the house or office with the DMP


----------



## buzzlulu

bmichels said:


> Very tempted but fortunatly ( for my Wallet ); *No Streaming, No sales.
> *
> Indeed now 50% of my listening are box streaming rater than local.  And with Qobuz sublime (24 bits streaming), most of the Time I can’t hear à différence.
> 
> Sony is going against history !



As a life long music listener/collector of a certain age (59) and as someone who has 7k LP's and 3k CD's I am in the same boat as you.  Almost all of my listening is now being done via TIDAL streaming.  That is why I am so happy that Sony updated the WM1Z firmware to incorporate DAC functionality.  My iPhone now remains attached to my 1Z when I want to get my Sony fix for their particular style of music presentation (when not using my 2 channel sources).

It would be nice however if streaming was built in.  I believe that if Sony puts their mind to it they can come up with integrated streaming which will not compromise playback.


----------



## Whitigir

Virgin unboxing 




bmichels said:


> Very tempted but fortunatly ( for my Wallet ); *No Streaming, No sales.
> *
> Indeed now 50% of my listening are box streaming rater than local.  And with Qobuz sublime (24 bits streaming), most of the Time I can’t hear à différence.
> 
> Sony is going against history !



You get LDAC though  24/96 is enough isnt it


----------



## buzzlulu

Is LDAC available to stream source material to the Z (and WM1Z)?
And what sources are available with LDAC - only Sony telephones?


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> Virgin unboxing
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Please can you explain how can I use LDAC to get Streaming with a DMP-Z1 ?


----------



## bmichels

buzzlulu said:


> .... I believe that if Sony puts their mind to it they can come up with integrated streaming which will not compromise playback.



Of course they can... If they want  !   Like they could have added a fixed pure line out... If they wanteed !    Or a bigger screen....

It is by principle that they avoided streaming and line-out, to give the DMP-Z1 an image of "non-compromise device", but commercially and technically this do not make sense in 2019 !


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> Of course they can... If they want  !   Like they could have added a fixed pure line out... If they wanteed !    Or a bigger screen....
> 
> It is by principle that they avoided streaming and line-out, to give the DMP-Z1 an image of "non-compromise device", but commercially and technically this do not make sense in 2019 !



Anything will get a MK2 designation these days.  Maybe give them 2 more years?


----------



## Audiophile2019

bmichels said:


> Of course they can... If they want  !   Like they could have added a fixed pure line out... If they wanteed !    Or a bigger screen....
> 
> It is by principle that they avoided streaming and line-out, to give the DMP-Z1 an image of "non-compromise device", but commercially and technically this do not make sense in 2019 !


Agree, bro.. A DAP as big as DMP-Z1 could use a bigger screen, at least 4 inch like WM1Z.. Not this 3.1inch like my ZX300.. I've demo'ed DMP-Z1 twice already & I found the screen needs to be bigger.. Especially for its price & top - of-the-line image..


----------



## buzzlulu (May 30, 2019)

bmichels said:


> Of course they can... If they want  !   Like they could have added a fixed pure line out... If they wanteed !    Or a bigger screen....
> 
> It is by principle that they avoided streaming and line-out, to give the DMP-Z1 an image of "non-compromise device", but commercially and technically this do not make sense in 2019 !



Agreed
Maybe part of a marketing pitch?

I briefly demoed the Z1 at NY CanJam.  Quite nice, interesting - but not a performance commensurate with its price imho (the casework and RK50 make up a large portion of the cost I’m sure)


----------



## bmichels (May 30, 2019)

purk said:


> Anything will get a MK2 designation these days.  Maybe give them 2 more years?



Ok!   So... I will wait for this one


----------



## Whitigir (May 30, 2019)

Ok, so here are a few technical reasons why I decided to go DMP and it coincided with many of your concerns too

1/ LDAC ? It is Bluetooth connection and is lately opened and available with many android devices (8.1 and higher).  You can use android smartphones and go to developer option, and opt for LDAC.  It does 24/96 quality, and don’t be fooled in thinking that Bluetooth is a *compressed format, and CD or FLAC isn’t...all digital in multibit and PCM are compressed , except SACD which is DSD64 

**DSD remastering will be available for your LDAC streaming too!*** I can explain more if you need it

2/ small screen ? Well, big screen gives off a lot of noises and interferences.  Especially touch screen, even if you have it lay against a metal chassis, it still inject noises into the control IC and poison the rest of the board.  Ideally, no touch screen is the best, or the smaller the better

3/ input and output connections....well...this here, I can use 3.5mm our or 4.4mm out as line-out.  I am not too worried about it.  Yes, in trade off for no Spdif/Coax ....etc...we get something that is carriable in sizes while performances if of desktop tier.  Why not even Spdif/Coax ? Because it would cause more parts for more complications which can also poison the sound, which is against the design language of DMP, to be powered as clean as possible.

Why Bluetooth instead of WiFi for streaming with those android apps ? Well, Firmware OS heavily influence the sound performances.  Walkman OS is the best as it was made and developed for decades for music and by music alone.  There can be no android, Linux or IOS to compete here.  Beside, WiFi is horrible with interferences, and the apps itself (tidal or QoBuz) With it own algorithms are pretty bad....I tried QoBuz, and it makes me want to cry. However, the game changes up when you stream it into Bluetooth as Sony OS and the device itself with it own Bluetooth codec will do the DSP and nothing with the apps...in a senses...it can improve sound quality this way..._not to mention the DSD remastering engine into DSD128 from Bluetooth 
_
Those are my reasons for buying DMP.  Beside that, I witness it at CNYC and it outperformed DAVE for me.  So, it is a win and win situations


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> Ok, so here are a few technical reasons why I decided to go DMP and it coincided with many of your concerns too
> 
> 1/ LDAC ? It is Bluetooth connection and is lately opened and available with many android devices (8.1 and higher).  You can use android smartphones and go to developer option, and opt for LDAC.  It does 24/96 quality, and don’t be fooled in thinking that Bluetooth is a *compressed format, and CD or FLAC isn’t...all digital in multibit and PCM are compressed , except SACD which is DSD64
> 
> ...



Thanks for this clarification, and I am happy you enjoy so much your new toy. 

- Based on your experience, what can you recommend as the best set-up to stream Tidal/Qobuz with the DMP (using an external streaming device like a phone, connected via LDAC ? )

- Also, if SONY kept this 3" screen due to noise pollution, then.... they really should have developed an Android App (like Aurender's conductor) that will use LDAC to connect to the DMP ? 


PS : mentioning that, to your ear, the DMP sounded better than the DAVE is a BIG statement ! Very promissing....


----------



## Whitigir (May 30, 2019)

bmichels said:


> Thanks for this clarification, and I am happy you enjoy so much your new toy.
> 
> - Based on your experience, what can you recommend as the best set-up to stream Tidal/Qobuz with the DMP (using an external streaming device like a phone, connected via LDAC ? )
> 
> ...



Yes, LDAC is the best for smartphone to DMP for streaming for all apps, Netflix and YouTube ....Tidal...etc...

Sony has a Bluetooth remote, but I am not too crazy about it, at least not now.

You can see the DSD displayed on the DMP.  That means it is live processing *Bluetooth signals into DSD Remastering* , quiet addictive


----------



## Whitigir

4.4mm into balanced amplifier for my large stereos 

Simply stunning with volume maxed out in low gain , on battery


----------



## ddmt

Congrats on your new Z1 Vince


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> 4.4mm into balanced amplifier for my large stereos
> 
> Simply stunning with volume maxed out in low gain , on battery




Repeat after me, don't get jealous of your pal shiny new toy!!


----------



## hamhamhamsta

Whitigir said:


> 4.4mm into balanced amplifier for my large stereos
> 
> Simply stunning with volume maxed out in low gain , on battery


OMG!


----------



## Ricky64

Whitigir said:


> 4.4mm into balanced amplifier for my large stereos
> 
> Simply stunning with volume maxed out in low gain , on battery


Dude, you need some Accuphase in this pic, not Yamaha...


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 31, 2019)

http://www.classicalvoice.org/tech/...-2-channel-amplifier-a-s3000-is-a-musical-gem


----------



## asquare3376

Whitigir said:


> 4.4mm into balanced amplifier for my large stereos
> 
> Simply stunning with volume maxed out in low gain , on battery


congratulations @Whitigir . QQ on your Yamaha (out of topic, sorry about that guys) - Is it possible to use the pre outs to power a dedicated powered sub while using the speaker terminals for the L+R speaker pair?


----------



## jonstatt (May 31, 2019)

LDAC is lossy compression. FLAC 24/96 is lossless compression. This is an important distinction.

According to Android authority
“Sony claims that LDAC can pass 16 bit, 44.1 kHz files without losing any quality (although note it says “same as” CD quality) over a 990 kbps Bluetooth connection, but there is definitely some loss with Hi-Res sized files.”

Qobuz is true non processed streaming of Lossless compressed files and with my Aries G2 to Dave, I hear no difference between a local FLAC file and Qobuz streamed version.

If you have an iPhone then there is no LDAC of course and a tethered usb connection is needed to get streaming to the Z1.

LDAC maybe the best Bluetooth connection but it is not true hi-res.


----------



## Whitigir (May 31, 2019)

jonstatt said:


> LDAC is lossy compression. FLAC 24/96 is lossless compression. This is an important distinction.
> 
> According to Android authority
> “Sony claims that LDAC can pass 16 bit, 44.1 kHz files without losing any quality (although note it says “same as” CD quality) over a 990 kbps Bluetooth connection, but there is definitely some loss with Hi-Res sized files.”
> ...



It doesn’t matter if people call it lossy or lossless.  PCM are all compressed format, unless DSD.  What matter is how it is being unfolded and processed....aka...algorithms and sampling, bit depth.  LDAC with 24/96 is qualified to be high-res, or higher than CD compressed rate


asquare3376 said:


> congratulations @Whitigir . QQ on your Yamaha (out of topic, sorry about that guys) - Is it possible to use the pre outs to power a dedicated powered sub while using the speaker terminals for the L+R speaker pair?


Yes, it was designed for that.  


Ricky64 said:


> Dude, you need some Accuphase in this pic, not Yamaha...


Trust me, when you see this Yamaha build internally, and listen to it.  You will understand why I love this very and very much.


----------



## Sp12er3

buzzlulu said:


> Is LDAC available to stream source material to the Z (and WM1Z)?
> And what sources are available with LDAC - only Sony telephones?


No, most (tho not all) android that has Android Oreo (8 and up) has LDAC. You just need to enable it in the Bluetooth settings menu.
Sony opening the tech as such makes LDAC has way wider penetration than AptxHD.
It's just, most people doesn't know that their phone has it already! Hahah.


----------



## buzzlulu

Quite a few people use iPhones (me included)
Unfortunately then game over


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> Quite a few people use iPhones (me included)
> Unfortunately then game over


That is Apple fault.  LDAC is opened patent


----------



## buzzlulu

Sorry however I will take my iPhone any day over anything Android.
Apps on the Android store are virtually unusable - the amount of malware floating on the Google app store is staggering.
Do your research - it might be enough for you to ditch your Android phone as well


----------



## jonstatt

buzzlulu said:


> Quite a few people use iPhones (me included)
> Unfortunately then game over



You can use the Apple cck cable to hook up the iPhone via usb. But it’s not pretty.


----------



## buzzlulu

jonstatt said:


> You can use the Apple cck cable to hook up the iPhone via usb. But it’s not pretty.



That is what I currently do with my WM1Z.  Correct - not pretty - but it was works


----------



## Whitigir

I use both android and Apple , hence I love LDaC .  Using the camera kit out from Apple is a good way to do it if you must use Apple


----------



## jonstatt

Chord mScaler effectively upscales to PCM 768kHz. Rob Watts who invented this says that DSD has side effects such as noise floor modulation and therefore prefers staying with  PCM . This is a contentious viewpoint because many like the sound of DSD, citing it as more analogue. Perhaps it is less accurate but more enjoyable?

Anyway the trend is more on DSD upscaling such as the Auralic Sirius or the Z1. This is a big feature!!


----------



## buzzlulu

Take it for what it's worth however I was not impressed with DSD upscaling when I had the SONY TA-ZH1ES.  Others in that particular thread have said the same.


----------



## Whitigir (May 31, 2019)

jonstatt said:


> Chord mScaler effectively upscales to PCM 768kHz. Rob Watts who invented this says that DSD has side effects such as noise floor modulation and therefore prefers staying with  PCM . This is a contentious viewpoint because many like the sound of DSD, citing it as more analogue. Perhaps it is less accurate but more enjoyable?
> 
> Anyway the trend is more on DSD upscaling such as the Auralic Sirius or the Z1. This is a big feature!!



I may mistaken what RW stated, but DSD is what come to the end of the digital music chain.  It will then be passed into low pass and high pass filter to become analog.  simply capacitors and resistor arrays.  There is no way to avoid DSD...unless RW is not using digital where the rest of the world is.

He converted DSD down into PCM 768 because he could apply tap lengths, noise shaping, digital filtering, and from there on, apply further DSP.  Just like anything else with multi bit and PCM, you can add, boost, cut frequencies, and that is your Digital EQ.  I understand why RobWat prefer this, because his stuff is always with a lot of DSP.  I observed it with Mojo and DAVE...so it is enough for me to conclude.

I even personally tried doing this with SACD into 368 and 24 bits...it still degrade the sound.  But why get the technical stuff bother you ? Unless you seriously want to look into it.  This is not me going against Chord and RW.  This is me and what I have learned so far in digital music and what I observed by far.  I could be wrong, but I am enjoying my music and the reason why I bought DMP is because it not only satisfied my ears, but also my technical mind. 

We all have different preferences for subjective audio and even objective technical and components build quality.  This to me is a marvelous engineered piece of hardware that I posted about it few pages ago.  However, enjoy your music, if you prefer DAVE and Chord, go for it, if you prefer A&K, then don’t hesitate, we all only have 1 life while our ears degrade every second.


----------



## Whitigir (May 31, 2019)

buzzlulu said:


> Take it for what it's worth however I was not impressed with DSD upscaling when I had the SONY TA-ZH1ES.  Others in that particular thread have said the same.


It is all inside the Algorithms .  Rob Wat and Chord has it inside physically built elements, but both works on the same principles (noise shaping).  The thing I am surprised the most is that Rob Wat is still using off the shelves Tantalum and Ceramic capacitors.  Those 2 generates a lot of noises when electricity conduct by them.  Sony goes for PML which eliminated all that stuff.  PML is not new, but just isn’t available off the shelves and in universal values like Tantalum and ceramics.  Sony has once again stated that it is back, and with innovations

However, before it goes down to the end result, other DSP techniques can be applied to filter out the noises.  Just remember, the more noises you filter, the more informations you will be losing.


----------



## buzzlulu

I never said anything about Chords implementation.  I simply said I was not a fan on Sonys version when I owned the TA.
Dont see how Sonys use of exotic components affects the TA's DSD upscaling - of which I was not a fan.


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> I never said anything about Chords implementation.  I simply said I was not a fan on Sonys version when I owned the TA.
> Dont see how Sonys use of exotic components affects the TA's DSD upscaling - of which I was not a fan.


I don’t know why either, but I can tell for sure is that there are differences from DSD remastering on DMP vs TA.  I don’t have the TA any more, but I know for a fact that

1/ TA with DSD remastering on.  I hardly noticed a jump in performances to my preferences.  There was no “WOW or “Opps” right away.  It needed A/B 

2/ DMP with DSD remastering on.  My brain was just like “WOW”

So that is good enough for me to think that DMP has it done better than TA.  How is it so ? Could be the algorithm on the DMP is different than TA, and those high-tech components.  I wouldn’t call PML exotic, because they are not simply expensive and be deemed high performances.  Those stuff inside DMP were engineered for (eliminating noises, jitters and piezoelectric while retaining the original frequencies).  What is exotic on DMP is the “how” Sony could pull it off with those PML not readily available in all values.  For example, you want 6V and 47uF, and PML can’t make it....you just need to rethink and avoid needing this part =/.  Sony could also use it Industry giant reputation and huge financial statement to place special order.  It still doesn’t avoid the fact that PML is very hard to produce and so it isn’t available in all values....doesn’t matter if you are whoever with however much money


----------



## Whitigir

Anyways, DSD remastering is a feature you can turn off.  What I meant to say is that all digital audio will have to be processed into DSD at the end of it chain.  Unless you are using alien technologies where the rest of the world can’t follow.  Otherwise, to claim that DSD is not good enough is another can of worm when in fact that you can manipulate the performances with your algorithms and PCM, together with the fact that sound is subjective.  Some people may listen to SACD and think....hmmm bass light....well, don’t worry, with Chord technique, you can now boost Bass with digital EQ  and in this sense, it is better, yeah ?


----------



## jonstatt

Whitigir said:


> I don’t know why either, but I can tell for sure is that there are differences from DSD remastering on DMP vs TA.  I don’t have the TA any more, but I know for a fact that
> 
> 1/ TA with DSD remastering on.  I hardly noticed a jump in performances to my preferences.  There was no “WOW or “Opps” right away.  It needed A/B
> 
> ...



I suspect the algorithm is similar but still wonder about the choice and effect of the DAC chip vs s-master and what effect this has. Maybe it’s actually better!


----------



## bmichels

OK but (stupid question): what is DSD remastering ?   Is it just up-scalling PCM and converting to DSD ?  

How does this affect Tidal/Qobuz streaming (streaming done by a phone connected via cable or LDAC to the DMP-Z1) ? is then Streaming as good as local redbook playback ?


----------



## Whitigir

jonstatt said:


> I suspect the algorithm is similar but still wonder about the choice and effect of the DAC chip vs s-master and what effect this has. Maybe it’s actually better!


TA uses FPGA for DSD purposes  DMP uses AK4497Eq and you are right


----------



## Whitigir (May 31, 2019)

bmichels said:


> OK but (stupid question): what is DSD remastering ?   Is it just up-scalling PCM and converting to DSD ?
> 
> How does this affect Tidal/Qobuz streaming (streaming done by a phone connected via cable or LDAC to the DMP-Z1) ? is then Streaming as good as local redbook playback ?



DSD remastering engine is simply put....an algorithms that utilize a processor IC and a programmed algorithm to process sigma-delta modulations instead of using DAC-IC.  When you turned on DSD remastering engine, you are using Sony own algorithms and DSP processing chip.  The AKM is there to conduct a pathway (multi channel 1 bit) into the low-high pass filtering to have analog out

Another way to put it is that you are using Sony Software and DSP professor chip to Convert digital to analog signals...instead of the AKM

The reason why TA uses FPGA is because S-Master can not by pass 1 bit DSD informations.  Unless it is processed directly by itself and into 2 separated channels, hence Balanced out only.  So Sony had to use FPGA for this purposes.

DMP also uses AKM for this purposes


----------



## bmichels (May 31, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> DSD remastering engine is simply put....an algorithms that utilize a processor IC and a programmed algorithm to process sigma-delta modulations instead of using DAC-IC.  When you turned on DSD remastering engine, you are using Sony own algorithms and DSP processing chip.  The AKM is there to conduct a pathway (multi channel 1 bit) into the low-high pass filtering to have analog out
> 
> Another way to put it is that you are using Sony Software and DSP professor chip to Convert digital to analog signals...instead of the AKM
> 
> ...



thanks a lot for this explanation.  Now I understand.

and so.... How does this affect Tidal/Qobuz streaming (streaming done by a phone connected via cable or LDAC to the DMP-Z1) ? is then Streaming as good as local redbook playback ?

BTW; could you tell us which headphone you use with the DMP-Z1 or which headphone you believe offer the best synergy with the DMP-Z1 ?


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> thanks a lot for this explanation.  Now I understand.
> 
> and so.... How does this affect Tidal/Qobuz streaming (streaming done by a phone connected via cable or LDAC to the DMP-Z1) ? is then Streaming as good as local redbook playback ?


It depends on the files and the recording quality , but by using LDAC, you can have a much more stable and capable of higher quality than CD


----------



## buzzlulu

Whitigir said:


> TA uses FPGA for DSD purposes  DMP uses AK4497Eq and you are right



Hmmm....I seem to remember that when the Z was released you went on and on about how disappointed you were that Sony cheaped out and was using an off the shelf chip.
Now it seems that this off the shelf chip appears to be outperforming Sony's proprietary FPGA???

It appears that you are now having a change of heart ?


----------



## Whitigir (May 31, 2019)

buzzlulu said:


> Hmmm....I seem to remember that when the Z was released you went on and on about how disappointed you were that Sony cheaped out and was using an off the shelf chip.
> Now it seems that this off the shelf chip appears to be outperforming Sony's proprietary FPGA???
> 
> It appears that you are now having a change of heart ?



Why did I made the purchase to DMP ? These are my own reasons.  If you have some free times, I have shared it 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/official-sony-dmp-z1-thread.886122/page-62#post-14977453
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/official-sony-dmp-z1-thread.886122/page-61#post-14972883

Also, FPGA in a sense is still too noisy for dedicated high-end music.  Non of the FPGA manufacturers even care about noises suppressing or retaining the original information....Yet....it goes against the languages of designing the DMP

AKM answered both problems, to avoid using S-Master, while achieving high-quality performances.  It isn’t easy for Sony to make this decision


----------



## Whitigir

Testing line out capability at 3.5mm.  Yes, both 4.4mm and 3.5mm can be used like this with maxed out volume on DMP-Z1 (low gain and battery operated)


----------



## bmichels

raypin said:


> Mm...the guy from Woo Audio said the Diana is gangbusters with the DMP  Z1. I’m not sure if he was referring to the Diana or the new Diana Phi (memory gap). My headfi dealer here has a demo Diana but , unfortunately, it is on loan elsewhere. Trying to arrange an audition...



Dear raypin, I hope you still enjoy your DMP-Z1.    Have you been able since to test the Diana with your DMP-Z1 ?  And a Focal Stellia ? 

 I am indeed considering purchasing a Z1 and need to know which headphone to buy with .


----------



## Whitigir

Do not take out this cover-protective film on the volume knob.  It is better be there to prevent small scratches


----------



## DaYooper

buzzlulu said:


> There is no Android or iOS overhead or "bloat".



Android and iOS* ARE* bloat.


----------



## Sp12er3

buzzlulu said:


> Hmmm....I seem to remember that when the Z was released you went on and on about how disappointed you were that Sony cheaped out and was using an off the shelf chip.
> Now it seems that this off the shelf chip appears to be outperforming Sony's proprietary FPGA???
> 
> It appears that you are now having a change of heart ?


Informations about the DMP is always scarce, just recently did they translate Designer's interview to English, it's easy to mistook one's design decision superficially and make own conjecture without hearing it. 
Digging deep and trying then out themselves helps I bet


----------



## tumpux

isn't it what powered the online forums like head-fi?
90% opinions shared on the forums are from members who don't have direct experience on the product itself.


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir, what does the DMP-Z1 do with all those files upconverted toDSD512?


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 1, 2019)

DaYooper said:


> Whitigir, what does the DMP-Z1 do with all those files upconverted toDSD512?


File is not supported ...automatically goes to next track and after 3 attempts it jumps to next folder

How to walk around with DMP and Stock case ?

I gotta love the ability to switch between Battery and AC as power source on the fly without shutting down the player.  It only took a second for the relay to click! Amazing


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir, what headphone are you using with the DMP-Z1 ?


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 1, 2019)

bmichels said:


> Whitigir, what headphone are you using with the DMP-Z1 ?


Stax SR009/009S and KG-T2 at home.  On the go I use with HD800S, SR1, Aiva.  I take SR1/Aiva out more than HD800S as they are cheaper and can be a daily beater while having pretty good performances

Here is a shot with it next to my Sendy Audio Aiva at work.


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> Stax SR009/009S and KG-T2 at home.  On the go I use with HD800S, SR1, Aiva.  I take SR1/Aiva out more than HD800S as they are cheaper and can be a daily beater while having pretty good performances
> 
> Here is a shot with it next to my Sendy Audio Aiva at work.



Thanks a lot for the détaillée answer.  

So, you use the DMP also as your home source ! May be I could sell my Aurender w20 to fund the pourchasse of the DMP


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 1, 2019)

bmichels said:


> Thanks a lot for the détaillée answer.
> 
> So, you use the DMP also as your home source ! May be I could sell my Aurender w20 to fund the pourchasse of the DMP


I also drive it out of my large stereo connecting to Yamaha A-S3000 
Yes, it is an excellent source, and was a primary purchase decision for me.  Like I mentioned, the time I auditioned DAVE against DMP at canjam, to my subjective opinion, the DMP was better.  So I needed some good source for my Stax and here it is.  The portability to do dynamic headphones is a bonus

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/official-sony-dmp-z1-thread.886122/page-63#post-14982516


----------



## raymogi (Jun 1, 2019)

I just bought a tia Trio 2 days ago.

Today, I bought this combo and omg... the Z1R with Z1 combo is out of this world. I haven’t even bothered pairing the Trio with Z1 for now.


----------



## PCheung

Whitigir, go get a vannuys case with a peak design camera strap and you are ready to go 

https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/vd956-vd957/


----------



## buzzlulu

Sp12er3 said:


> it's easy to mistook one's design decision superficially and make own conjecture without hearing it.



I've seen quite a bit of that in this thread..... and the rest of Headfi in general


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 1, 2019)

PCheung said:


> Whitigir, go get a vannuys case with a peak design camera strap and you are ready to go
> 
> https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/vd956-vd957/



Yeah, I may have to as taking DMP around without the case isn’t convenient as I think.  The jeans and it brass buttons or spikes would scratch up the DMP....down side is that i have to buy form Japan ...LoL

@buzzlulu , if you listen to DMP with DSD remastering on, you are using Sony DSP chip processor.  It isn’t an FPGA as FPGA only stand for Field Programmable Gated Array....it is used for many industries such as automaton and so on.  These FPGA were never intended for High quality audio as it was never engineered to eliminate noises or Jitter.  Yes, the newer generations are Ofcourse improved ...but still , those people never cared about Audio.  The reason why Chord and other people uses it is because they are not capable of producing their own IC, so buying a Massive Production FPGA and program it is a better choice.

I would think TA-ZH1ES was designed with FPGA by the same reason....to keep affordable cost for the newest features DSD remastering engine and Sony own DSP processor.  The FPGA inside the TA is simply acting as a 1 bit DAC to by pass the DSD-remastered signal by the Sony DSP-IC.  When you are not using this feature, then you are using S-Master instead.  The FPGA inside the TA-ZH1ES was never a  main DAC.  The main DAC is S-Master HX

The reason why Sony isn’t using S-Master and choose to use AK4497EQ is already listed as I posted (to be able to enable DSD-remastering engine without implementing another FPGA and make the size even larger) _*remember, Sony is capable of not only the algorithm for DSD processing without delta-sigma IC chip, but is also capable of making their own dedicated Digital Signal Processing Chip!*_  The DSP is the most important here as it is noises free and engineered for high quality sound.  The AK4497EQ is also multi bit DAC that is capable of bypassing 1 bit stream *Dedicatedly*.  Again, it isn’t easy for Sony to decide to pick AK4497EQ as they are very proud of their own product.

The reason why I attended Canjam NYC is for DMP and compare to Chord DAVE.  It sounded wonderful, but I just had to do more homework’s to decide.  So it is not a change of heart, but more like the more I researched, the more I learned about DMP and why it was engineered this way.

 **this just crossed my mind** but the FPGA in the TA May be the reason why (DSD remastering didn’t sound as good as DMP)....given the same algorithms ? Also the TA has different components inside as well


----------



## audionewbi

I had a dream last night about pairing HD820 with DMP-Z1......


----------



## audionewbi

Whitigir said:


> Yeah, I may have to as taking DMP around without the case isn’t convenient as I think.  The jeans and it brass buttons or spikes would scratch up the DMP....down side is that i have to buy form Japan ...LoL
> 
> @buzzlulu , if you listen to DMP with *DSD remastering* on, you are using Sony DSP chip processor.  It isn’t an FPGA as FPGA only stand for Field Programmable Gated Array....it is used for many industries such as automaton and so on.  These FPGA were never intended for High quality audio as it was never engineered to eliminate noises or Jitter.  Yes, the newer generations are Ofcourse improved ...but still , those people never cared about Audio.  The reason why Chord and other people uses it is because they are not capable of producing their own IC, so buying a Massive Production FPGA and program it is a better choice.
> 
> ...



How does Sony DSD engine compare to HQplayer paired with t+a dac 8 dsd? More importantly, how does DMP-Z1 scale when paired with something like hqplayer? I know you are a big fan of DSD512, and I have to admit I do hear the big deal of PCM 786, and I do like DSD, but I hear sonic improvement of double DXD more easily. Do you think Z1 is up there compare to something like DAC 8 DSD?


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 1, 2019)

audionewbi said:


> How does Sony DSD engine compare to HQplayer paired with t+a dac 8 dsd? More importantly, how does DMP-Z1 scale when paired with something like hqplayer? I know you are a big fan of DSD512, and I have to admit I do hear the big deal of PCM 786, and I do like DSD, but I hear sonic improvement of double DXD more easily. Do you think Z1 is up there compare to something like DAC 8 DSD?



This question is a little vague.  I never heard the T+A 8, so I can’t really comment here.  I know for a fact that DSD remastering is awesome on the DMP. 

How does HQPlayer and or HQplayerPro stack up against the DMP ? I guess there are 2 questions here.  If you meant the algorithms ? I know for the fact that HQplayerPro has a lot of options to tinker with, after all it is a product for studio mastering folks.  The HQPlayer is “on the fly processing”, so it disadvantage is that it heavily relying on the PC that is built as a digital sources.  Therefore, if you meant Hardware stuff ? The HQPlayer would need a very expensive Digital source.  Algorithms and offline ? The HQplayerPro cost $3k or so right ? And you need some memory with it 

I have not tried to compare HQPlayer on the fly from my built PC to DSD remastering withint DMP yet....I will do it, but not sure when .  The DMP remaster into DSD128 or 2X the SACD


----------



## Whitigir

I just tried HQplayerPro to DSD vs DMP DSD remastering from the same WAV, and I rather use DSD remastering engine instead.  I hope that answered your questions


----------



## Whitigir

The stock case is so useful that you can have DMP inside without taking it out and be able to plug everything into it.  It doesn’t even get hot


----------



## skr3328

I went to a show a few days ago and tried the Hifiman He1000se on Z1. Unexpectedly the headphone is not hard to drive with the balanced high gain output of Z1. The combo sounded just Wow, a heart touching warm and fluffy sound I never heard before.My daughter loved it and wanted it so much but my wallet was already empty.


----------



## bmichels

skr3328 said:


> I went to a show a few days ago and tried the Hifiman He1000se on Z1. Unexpectedly the headphone is not hard to drive with the balanced high gain output of Z1. The combo sounded just Wow, a heart touching warm and fluffy sound I never heard before.My daughter loved it and wanted it so much but my wallet was already empty.




AHHH so difficult choice ! * What will be the Very BEST headphone to buy for the Z1 ?   Hifiman He1000se ? ABYSS Diana Phi ? Sony MDR-Z1R ? .....*


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 3, 2019)

bmichels said:


> AHHH so difficult choice ! * What will be the Very BEST headphone to buy for the Z1 ?   Hifiman He1000se ? ABYSS Diana Phi ? Sony MDR-Z1R ? .....*


Hd800s  easy choice


----------



## purk (Jun 3, 2019)

skr3328 said:


> I went to a show a few days ago and tried the Hifiman He1000se on Z1. Unexpectedly the headphone is not hard to drive with the balanced high gain output of Z1. The combo sounded just Wow, a heart touching warm and fluffy sound I never heard before.My daughter loved it and wanted it so much but my wallet was already empty.



Able to drive it well is the key though.  Those Hifiman are notoriously difficult to drive well.  They usually sound their best with top end solid state amps with plenty of driving power on tap.


----------



## audionewbi

I had a chance to listen to dmp z1 in a more extended setting. It’s tonality is certainly similar to the wm1 series. It has potential which I think M9 could not display.

My issue is the tonality, I prefer the r2r2k tonality. But I can see myself getting the z1 down the line. 
I don’t see myself loading two 512 GB microsd and 256 GB and navigate via that screen.
I see myself using an iPad Pro and a USB C for sure, that is the best experience one can hope for.


----------



## Whitigir

DMP and it main purpose


----------



## bmichels

audionewbi said:


> I had a chance to listen to dmp z1 in a more extended setting. It’s tonality is certainly similar to the wm1 series. It has potential which I think M9 could not display.
> 
> My issue is the tonality, I prefer the r2r2k tonality. But I can see myself getting the z1 down the line.
> I don’t see myself loading two 512 GB microsd and 256 GB and navigate via that screen.
> I see myself using an iPad Pro and a USB C for sure, that is the best experience one can hope for.



I agree with the small sceeen issue. But... how will the iPad Pro/USBc help to solve this issue ? Until SONY dévelop an iPad App, You canot manage the playback of the music via your iPad unless the music is stored on the iPad Pro, and not on the Z1 ?  .


----------



## buzzlulu

With the implementation of DAC functionality on the WM1Z Sony hit a home run.  One can connect an iPhone - or iPad - to the unit and use the iOS screen and respective app (Tidal, Qobuz etc.).
I do not know if the Z1 has a USB port and the ability to function as a DAC fed by an iOS device?


----------



## asquare3376

buzzlulu said:


> With the implementation of DAC functionality on the WM1Z Sony hit a home run.  One can connect an iPhone - or iPad - to the unit and use the iOS screen and respective app (Tidal, Qobuz etc.).
> I do not know if the Z1 has a USB port and the ability to function as a DAC fed by an iOS device?


It has USB C port and support DAC functionality


----------



## bmichels

Yes but I really wonder if Z1 used as a DAC feed via USB by an iPAD will sound as good as if the Z1 plays from it's internal memory !  I doubt !


----------



## buzzlulu

bmichels said:


> Yes but I really wonder if Z1 used as a DAC feed via USB by an iPAD will sound as good as if the Z1 plays from it's internal memory !  I doubt !



I use my WM1Z as a DAC playing TIDAL and am quite happy.
These days what counts for me is TIDAL playback and not music I own (and I'm an older guy who grew up buying music so 7k records and 3k CD's).  So memory card playback is not important.
These days I no longer buy anything - all new music is listened to via streaming.  I have many other fellow hi end friends, all of us with serious $ systems, and many have stopped buying music and just stream.  Saving quite a bit of money in the process


----------



## buzzlulu

So if the Z has DAC capability I guess in the end it must be evaluated as an $8k DAC vs. others out there in that price range.  There is a lot of competition- Naim & Linn in 2 channel land, Chord, Lavry etc.


----------



## Whitigir

The DMP to me is a desktop DAC at 8K pricing, the portability with headphones is a bonus


----------



## audionewbi

Whitigir said:


> The DMP to me is a desktop DAC at 8K pricing, the portability with headphones is a bonus



You are the only person with the know how and experience to test out how DMP function as a pure DAC from its 4.4mm out. I saw your HD800s, and it does sound good, but please try the HD820 with the Sony. It is a different level.


----------



## Whitigir

audionewbi said:


> You are the only person with the know how and experience to test out how DMP function as a pure DAC from its 4.4mm out. I saw your HD800s, and it does sound good, but please try the HD820 with the Sony. It is a different level.


I tried the hd820, but I didn’t like it .  I guess it is a matter of taste


----------



## markt1600

Whitigir said:


> I tried the hd820, but I didn’t like it .  I guess it is a matter of taste


Agree that it's all a matter of personal taste.

I've posted before but I have found that Focal Stellias pair magically with the DMP-Z1 (using the balanced connection).  Puts a smile on my face every time that I listen.


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 4, 2019)

bmichels said:


> Yes but I really wonder if Z1 used as a DAC feed via USB by an iPAD will sound as good as if the Z1 plays from it's internal memory !  I doubt !


You have asked with too many variables in the questions .  But your assumptions are correct, neither streaming nor USB digitally feeding DMP is going to sound as good as DMP and a proper SACD DSF or CD and WAV is going to sound on the DMP.

These are a can of worms, and I will just lay out what I have tested and observed so far.  You can test it and decide for yourself , and not necessarily be in agreement with me.  But I will share it out here anyways.

1/ internal memory and MicroSD on DMP is read and run by Sony Walkman OS.  This OS by itself is made for music and by enthusiasts.  It is known and revered as the best OS for music.  It isn’t available anywhere else, but Sony Walkman and Sony product.  Even android Walkman isn’t the same.  A few years back when NW ZX2 was released, people dreamed of a system with Walkman OS and touch screen where it wasn’t available and was just a Dream.

2/ Ipad and IOS, I gotta say that IPad and it IOS are a better OS for music and streaming.  But it still wouldn’t stack up to Sony Walkman OS.  But between IOS, Android, Windows, Linux, then I would rate Linux > IOS > Windows > Android ...LoL...yes I tested it with my ears, and even tried to use the same YouTube ...so, if you wanted to use DMP as DAC, then IOS will sound as the better choices.

When you realized both #1 and #2, then you will be worrying about the Player app, it could be windows media player, jriver, fooBar, HQPlayer.....etc....regardless....non of them is going to outperform Walkman and Walkman OS.  You don’t have to take up my words for it, I believe you can hear the differences just fine.

Furthermore, when you realized that much.  The reason why DMP has no WiFi and capability to stream online YouTube or QoBuz, Tidal is the complications between compatibility and music performances.  That is why there is LDAC.  But regardless of what connections as I mentioned, you are not going to get the best of your music by streaming.  Maybe trying to find it on an SACD or CD and rip it to DMP and you will enjoy it much better.  But if streaming is a must, then LDAC will serve you better.  You can opt for Camera kit and USB cable to DMP, and it is better than Bluetooth . It sound a tad bit better (but I rather Bluetooth here), and technically speaking, your player cut down from another fold-unfold processing, but that still isn’t going to smear at DMP and MicroSD storage.



markt1600 said:


> Agree that it's all a matter of personal taste.
> 
> I've posted before but I have found that Focal Stellias pair magically with the DMP-Z1 (using the balanced connection).  Puts a smile on my face every time that I listen.



Yes, Stellia was great, and so is Z7 MKii.  But I love my HD800s, a furutech connector with pentaconn and Litz cooper wires will bring improvements.  Non of the dynamic full-size at Canjam NYC would pull me away from my hd800S....not Empyrean....and even so, Stax SR009 and a T2 would make HD800S cry ...lol


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 4, 2019)

Here are PML capacitors, those are in multiple color as a result of vaporized deposit of dielectric layer in films.  They have different colors, but you will realize them immediately

You will see larger POS caps from Panasonic as well, they are black casing with marked polarity as seen in this picture

F-resistor everywhere here (F marked with black casing)

This picture is from audio circuitry between digital to DAC conversion and as I mentioned, Sony designed DMP as a statement piece to totally dedicate toward music and *eliminate* “jitters, acoustic noises that generate through components”.  When speaking about digital music, then we gotta count precision and tolerances, you will see a lot of F-resistors and 0.01% tolerances here on the boards as well.


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 5, 2019)

Time to baby and take a nap with my “Sit-Man” .  On the go with the back pack and he becomes “Pack-man”....yes, biggest sibling of “Walk-Man”

Regardless of what you want to call him/her.  The beauty in both appearances and sound performances will be unmistakably “Musical!”

It is also Fun! To listening to music, and wiping off your own finger prints on the surface


----------



## audionewbi (Jun 6, 2019)

This is a picture I took the first time I listen to it. Sony is a weird company, they are always getting there but are not quiet there for me. The least they could have done is put the WM1A screen on it. All and all for now I have to give it a pass. I was lucky enough to test the new marantz sa-10 which cost the same as the DMP. SA-10 upsamples everything to DSD256 using its own algorithm. It also function as SACD player, etc. I did not have a chance to do a side by side comparison, but if sound alone was my concern, god it sounded very good, dare I say better than DMP.

Issue with it is, it is not portable, it has function I don't need, and basically that is why DMP is still more appealing.


----------



## Whitigir

Yeah, well...I love my DMP .  She fits right into my setup nicely, wherever I put her.  Here is another shot


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 7, 2019)

So, I have been burning it in while listening to it.  However, I found it exciting to have found the correct DSP setting out of all of it features.  You can have all 6 different filters from AKM4497EQ itself, and then DSD-Remastering engine together with DSD filtering options from Sony Proprietary Digital Signal Processor (DSP).  Then there are DSEE HX AI, Vinyl engine, Bass/treble tone control....etc....but I found what I have been after now, and I will share it out here.  Yes, sound is subjective and what I prefer may not be your cup of tea.  I would love it if everybody could share their finding for their favorite genres

So, my genres of enjoyments are hugely varied from classical to instruments, orchestra, jazz, classic rock, classic pop, modern pop...etc...I have found a perfect match for the performances that doesn’t everything universally well, and hugely benefit from Tonal body, timbres density, liquidity and full of emotions.  My main genres is still pop, instruments...

Setting > Output Setting > DAC filtering setting > Sharp

Setting > Device setting > Battery preferred

DSD playback setting > select filtering gain > Slow Roll Off

Back to setting > Sound > Direct Source > DSD Remastering

Attached is showing the step responds measurement of ak4497EQ too from specs sheets


----------



## raymogi

Whitigir said:


> So, I have been burning it in while listening to it.  However, I found it exciting to have found the correct DSP setting out of all of it features.  You can have all 6 different filters from AKM4497EQ itself, and then DSD-Remastering engine together with DSD filtering options from Sony Proprietary Digital Signal Processor (DSP).  Then there are DSEE HX AI, Vinyl engine, Bass/treble tone control....etc....but I found what I have been after now, and I will share it out here.  Yes, sound is subjective and what I prefer may not be your cup of tea.  I would love it if everybody could share their finding for their favorite genres
> 
> So, my genres of enjoyments are hugely varied from classical to instruments, orchestra, jazz, classic rock, classic pop, modern pop...etc...I have found a perfect match for the performances that doesn’t everything universally well, and hugely benefit from Tonal body, timbres density, liquidity and full of emotions.  My main genres is still pop, instruments...
> 
> ...



I checked my settings and mine is the same as yours. Only thing I remember changing after I bought mine is the battery preferred and DSD remastering.

Perfect for those stated genres of music


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 7, 2019)

Edit*


----------



## raymogi

In DAC mode, the DMP will lag if used with youtube/netflix right? Just wanna make sure it's not my unit's fault.


----------



## audionewbi

raymogi said:


> In DAC mode, the DMP will lag if used with youtube/netflix right? Just wanna make sure it's not my unit's fault.


It is an issue common across all walkman OS, so it is certainly unique to DMP-Z1.


----------



## raymogi

audionewbi said:


> It is an issue common across all walkman OS, so it is certainly unique to DMP-Z1.



Got it. And I assume there's no way around it? I mean watching The Office through the DMP might be fun


----------



## audionewbi

raymogi said:


> Got it. And I assume there's no way around it? I mean watching The Office through the DMP might be fun


I notice there is no lag using Bluetooth connection, or at least the lag is much less noticeable compared to USB DAC mode.


----------



## raymogi

audionewbi said:


> I notice there is no lag using Bluetooth connection, or at least the lag is much less noticeable compared to USB DAC mode.



Interesting. Will give that a go. Thanks!


----------



## Whitigir

Correct, Bluetooth connection has no noticeable lags


----------



## Whitigir

Also, I do not know why this DMP is in sub category : _portable headphones amp_.  The DMP has 0 ways to take Analogs input and amplify it .....the DMP in no way is a Portable Amp.  It is a DAC, or a Semi-Portable Player


----------



## Whitigir

Testing DMP Z1 with DSD-remastering now and again.  The last time I found out that DSD processed by HQplayerPro isn’t as good as DMP self remastering.  I was using DSD64 the same as DSD - Remastering can do on the DMP.

*When using processing of ASDM7 and Polysinc-Ext2 with DSD256 as the highest the DMP can do.  The performances goes up another notch in*: _soundstage depth/width, details, controls and darker background

*However*, when I tried the method of RobWatt by compressing DSD64 or SACD into 368Khz with 1-Million tap lengths, and then reprocessing back into DSD256 by HQplayerPro, the music losses it acoustic room reverbs and instruments housing unique reverb/delays._

This finding is in line with what I also found on another Portable player , the DX200 and the DX220 from Ibasso.  This conclusion of SACD being the best of what a Studio and it artists behind the science are the best sounding if you are looking to listen to music the way “_the artists intended”_.  To listen by RobWatt Theory, you are listening to Chord unique Digital Signal Processing algorithms and filters from Chord alone, and nothing to do with the “music as the studio intended”.  Ofcourse, once can debate that not all “music as the studio intended” can sound good .... for example, clipping, loudness, distortions....etc...I found myself that even with the rarer form of SACD, the best of them all is from Japanese Remastered.  Anyhow, the theory will not change, SACD can not be tinkered any further, and if a studio had bad engineering teams, then a good record will sound bad, and vice versa......_Therefore, the final conclusion is that SACD is the best shot to “hear the music as Intended”_

The next thing in line when you have any PCM formats such as WAV or FLAC.  It is better to enjoy the music with DSD processing by a good algorithms to the best the Devices can handle.  The best program I have found so far is HQplayerPro as it is the most precise and neutral one.  The other affordable one is Xivero, but you will not have the options to change or alternate the signatures of your whole track by different Modulators and digital filters as HQplayerPro

It is also dependent on the track and genres that the DSD-Remastering from DMP is excel at, for example classical and organic instruments.  They are so good on DMP Remastering engine, and it sound to me that Sony tunes and develope this features by using organic instruments and classical genres as the tuning and references points. _That confirms the DSD remastering engine on the DMP is quiet good by itself ,when compared (processing of PCM into DSD64 against HQplayerPro), and if you do not want to seek further complications of enjoying the music, having DSD remastering engine (or on the fly conversions) by Sony and the DMP is excellent feature to enjoy while saving storage space._  This feature alone by itself should be worth the money already !  The last time this feature on TA-ZH1ES wasn’t giving me such Wow impression, but on the DMP and eventhough it is only DSD64 vs DSD128 on TA-ZH1ES, the DMP still giving the “wow”.  Hopefully, Sony in the future will allow with firmware to DSD-remastering into DSD256 on the DMP.


----------



## DaYooper

Just my 2 cents but if the "wow" is there then all the numbers are meaningless? (except maybe the prices)


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> Just my 2 cents but if the "wow" is there then all the numbers are meaningless? (except maybe the prices)


You are right .  It all comes down to the engineering and components being used.  This was one of the reason why I went with the DMP.  Just for one example, DSD256 remastered on TA-ZH1ES may not sound as good as DSD128 on the DMP for a fact that DMP analog and digital essential circuitry are all built with PML caps that minimizes or eliminate the acoustic noises due to piezoelectric, and while the Fine Sound resistors are the most precise resistors with highest tolerances and developed especially for Music and frequencies retentions by itself.

Simply put, every one can cook and serve up a steak dinners.  Given the same chef, and techniques, but with different cut of steaks and vegetables, your dishes will be better than others


----------



## Whitigir

Wow, so DSD256 can be played back continuously for 10 hours or so too! On battery...that is insane


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 11, 2019)

I wanna be your end-game! 1200x1100 album art with MP3Tag

Polysinc EXT2 with ASDM7 and 44.1 x 256 by HQplayerPro

Direct sound


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 13, 2019)

So, as my original plan goes.  *Due to the nature of DMP-Z1 as being able to run straight from AC power Supply
*
Voila, an AMB Sigma 11 LPS is born.  Due to the tolerances, the voltage is a bit higher than what specified but I figured every components are going to be 5-10%.  Therefore, the Sigma 11 is working and operating as expected

Thank you Ti Kan and AMB for such an excellent product.  I love DIY as I can make it the way what I love.  It was built with Dedication toward Audio Performances with no cutting corner 

NIPPON Chemicon Capacitors

Seismic 2 Elna Audio Grade Caps

All internal wires are OCC Litz

All sockets and recptacles are Furutech as much as can be

Direct soldered on as much as can be to avoid further poisoning the purity with additional terminals and removable sockets

Screws are dampened to the maximum with nylon washer to minimize vibrations

Also dampening capacitors with epoxy to further minimize generated noises and isolate away from PCB

Solder is Oyaide SS-47 Audio Grade with high Silver contents


----------



## hamhamhamsta

Whitigir said:


> So, as my original plan goes.  *Due to the nature of DMP-Z1 as being able to run straight from AC power Supply
> *
> Voila, an AMB Sigma 11 LPS is born.  Due to the tolerances, the voltage is a bit higher than what specified but I figured every components are going to be 5-10%.  Therefore, the Sigma 11 is working and operating as expected
> 
> ...


There goes the itch!
What kind of improvement in sound quality are we talking about?


----------



## Sp12er3

That's what called going above and beyond~!
Damn man. Very few are willing to go this far testing and trying built in stuff and external combination just from a single product.


----------



## Whitigir

hamhamhamsta said:


> There goes the itch!
> What kind of improvement in sound quality are we talking about?


Too much to list out.  Let’s just say there are improvements that I love even more


----------



## raymogi

The only thing missing from this beauty is tap to wake. I hope one day it can be added via software update.


----------



## audionewbi

Can I ask what price did you guys paid for your Z1? I like to know the current market value so when I go hunting for it, I know what the market value is.

Thanks guys.


----------



## Whitigir

There are not much inventory stocking for DMP-Z1, so I guess the best price is one you can find....and better than that would be if you could scoop up a used one


----------



## raymogi

audionewbi said:


> Can I ask what price did you guys paid for your Z1? I like to know the current market value so when I go hunting for it, I know what the market value is.
> 
> Thanks guys.



I reserved my unit in Singapore’s Sony store 2 weeks before I come. The only unit left in all of Singapore. The sales guy was so friendly. Kudos to him. Paid full retail price. No regrets at all.


----------



## Whitigir

One thing to take Note.  The plug and unplug of 4.4mm or 3.5mm.  Please use both hand techniques, so u dont accidentally dent or ding your golden volume knob


----------



## audionewbi

raymogi said:


> I reserved my unit in Singapore’s Sony store 2 weeks before I come. The only unit left in all of Singapore. The sales guy was so friendly. Kudos to him. Paid full retail price. No regrets at all.



I remember that was the unit they had when I was over, it was reserved for a gentleman from Mongolia who changed his mind. At that time I had no funds, I don't have it now, but they offered me a really good price, as I also purchased the IER-Z1R. Just didn't have the funds.

A Taiwanese audiophile told me that that with a good AC power conditioner he can get performance as good as Z1. I asked him whether he owns the Z1, he said no. I asked if he had A/B the unit, he said he did but for a short day. 

9000 AUD is a lot fo money, I just wish it did DSD512, honestly I would have jumped in head first.  

Sonically I prefer the PCM tonality of R2R2000, why? I have no idea, but the Sony fanboy in me, the DSD enthusiast in me, all tell me get the Z1. I know it is a product that one can only get to learn its value and performance over time. Two hour store audition will never be enough to display its subtle quality that one can only appreciate over time.


----------



## audionewbi (Jun 14, 2019)

Any here is the first picture of a modded Z1
https://twitter.com/CableCreator/status/1132189741221392384


----------



## Whitigir

audionewbi said:


> Any the here is the first picture of a modded Z1
> https://twitter.com/CableCreator/status/1132189741221392384


Lol what cables are those ?


----------



## audionewbi

Whitigir said:


> Lol what cables are those ?


They are creator cable pure silver.


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 14, 2019)

audionewbi said:


> They are creator cable pure silver.


Cool! Thanks for the respond . I understand the itch, and from the point of being a modder and enthusiast myself, allows me to share my mod 

In regard to whoever did ask me about what mods I planned on doing for DMP-Z1 ?

So my ultimate Walkman is now completed with External Ultra Linear Regulated Power Supply.  The DMP-Z1 is unique in this attribute alone and by itself, which makes it the only device on the market at the moment to be doing this._*  The ability to take and run off the External Power Supply*_.

Unlike your traditional Devices.  The DMP-Z1 has 3 modes

1/ Battery alone.  This can be switched anytime even when Plugged into a wall socket.

2/ Battery preferred.  This will makes the DMP acts like any of your typical Portable devices that has battery.  Use the External supply to charge and the DMP is internally operated on the Battery alone

3/ AC Mode.  In this Mode, the DMP will utilize the External Power Supply to charge the batteries while running and operating internally straight from your External Power Supply.

All 3 modes are switched on the fly automatically or by your choices and the player never have to be turned off .

This Supply was built with all the dedications toward sound as much as I have known and accumulated over the years.

All internals wires are OCC-Litz as needed, Furutech Sockets and receptacles, Direct solder as much as needed to assure best performances, dampened epoxy with dampened mechanism on mounting the board toward the chassis,  and proper ventilations for MOSFET.  Capacitors are built upon Audio Grade such as Seimic 2 and NIPPON Chemicon.  Solder are Oyaide SS-47 with Audio Grade performances that I hav been trusted to have been using all over the years.  There is no corner cut

Thank you AMB Audio and Ti Kan for such amazing designs


----------



## purk

Well thanks to @ Jason @ SourceAV and my buddy @Whitigir, I have joined the dark side.....


----------



## audionewbi

QA361 also has a feature were you can use external PSU. Some members in China made external linear PSU for it and report amazing improvement. I need to look into AMB Linear PSU.


----------



## Whitigir

audionewbi said:


> QA361 also has a feature were you can use external PSU. Some members in China made external linear PSU for it and report amazing improvement. I need to look into AMB Linear PSU.


There are many devices that can use external power supply....but DMP is unique in a sense that it can be powered on battery too with 3 modes, and all modes can be changed on the fly without ever to turn the player off.  Not sure about qa361 if it can do similar


----------



## audionewbi (Jun 14, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> There are many devices that can use external power supply....but DMP is unique in a sense that it can be powered on battery too with 3 modes, and all modes can be changed on the fly without ever to turn the player off.  Not sure about qa361 if it can do similar


Yes QA361 also has such features. Issue with QA361 is the neutral tonality. It is currently my reference DAP for that reason. It also as a DSD resampling but nowhere similar to Z1.

Have a look at upcoming QA390.


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 14, 2019)

audionewbi said:


> Yes QA361 also has such features. Issue with QA361 is overly the tonality. It is currently my reference DAP for that reason. It also as a DSD resampling but nowhere similar to Z1.
> 
> Have a look at upcoming QA390.


I only see USB C charger port on QA361 ? Are you saying this usb type C feature direct supply ? Ah it uses tps737

The QA390 is very interesting.  I dont think QA390 has all the F resistors and PML caps arrangement like Z1 from the anticipated pricing as each of those components are expensive.  But it is obvious that DMP has opened up the market segment.  None the less, DMP level of engineering and components lay out will be top level for some time....without doubt

Have we all forgot about the golden volume knob RK501 ? A version custom made by Sony which derived from RK50 that goes 1K each


----------



## audionewbi

Whitigir said:


> I only see USB C charger port on QA361 ? Are you saying this usb type C feature direct supply ? Ah it uses tps737
> 
> The QA390 is very interesting.  I dont think QA390 has all the F resistors and PML caps arrangement like Z1 from the anticipated pricing as each of those components are expensive.  But it is obvious that DMP has opened up the market segment.  None the less, DMP level of engineering and components lay out will be top level for some time....without doubt
> 
> Have we all forgot about the golden volume knob RK501 ? A version custom made by Sony which derived from RK50 that goes 1K each



I once tried RK50 which was just used for volume control, it was a very positive experience,


----------



## raymogi

I just listened to Avicii's _Tough Love_ using Tia Trio + Leo II Octa on the Z1. On this beautiful Saturday morning. Pure audio heaven.

This is why I like this hobby.


----------



## audionewbi

raymogi said:


> I just listened to Avicii's _Tough Love_ using Tia Trio + Leo II Octa on the Z1. On this beautiful Saturday morning. Pure audio heaven.
> 
> This is why I like this hobby.



If you were to judge the XRC feature on the LPGT and DMP-Z1 DSD upsampling, how do you compare the two?


----------



## raymogi

audionewbi said:


> If you were to judge the XRC feature on the LPGT and DMP-Z1 DSD upsampling, how do you compare the two?



I have turned on the DSD upsampling since day 1, but I somehow forgot the LPGT has XRC feature 

I started using it 3 days ago I think. But so far, I would say the Z1 is still ahead.


----------



## Whitigir

audionewbi said:


> If you were to judge the XRC feature on the LPGT and DMP-Z1 DSD upsampling, how do you compare the two?


LPGT has too much DSP when playing PCM without EQ and other effects, where as the DMP has None with Direct Source On.

When DSD live processing is on, the LPGT is more on a neutral side, and the DMP is on a musical side.  Both are just as accurate but DMP can squeeze out more emotions , coherency and realism in room reverb and instruments decay, especially For classical and Instrument genres

When compare DSD processing from LPGT in comparison to HQplayerPro and my Built PC on the same DSD256 , the LPGT was behind in accuracy where as the DMP VS HQplayerPro even at DSD128 vs DSD64, the DMP is still better similar to listed above.



raymogi said:


> I have turned on the DSD upsampling since day 1, but I somehow forgot the LPGT has XRC feature
> 
> I started using it 3 days ago I think. But so far, I would say the Z1 is still ahead.


Agreed with your statement


----------



## audionewbi

Going to try the Z1 one last time and place my first down payment tomorrow.


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> Well thanks to @ Jason @ SourceAV and my buddy @Whitigir, I have joined the dark side.....



.....and ? Waiting for it, or received ?


----------



## rtjoa

audionewbi said:


> Going to try the Z1 one last time and place my first down payment tomorrow.


Where do you try Z1 in Australia? I am in Perth.


----------



## purk (Jun 15, 2019)

Thanks to @TSAVAlan & @TSAVJason for their impeccable service.  Placed my order yesterday at noon their time and my personal DMP-Z1 arrived across the country in Georgia 7 mins before noon today.  I got their last unit before more shipment at the end of the month.

  Let the burn in process begin!  Such an incredible craftsmanship.  As for sound, I need more time to listen and will post later!  Let’s wait and see how it will stand up to my spectacular sounding Audio-technical HA5050H amplifier.


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> Thanks to @TSAVAlan & @TSAVJason for their impeccable service.  Placed my order yesterday at noon their time and my personal DMP-Z1 arrived across the country in Georgia 7 mins before noon today.  I got their last unit before more shipment at the end of the month.
> 
> Let the burn in process begin!  Such an incredible craftsmanship.  As for sound, I need more time to listen and will post later!  Let’s wait and see how it will stand up to my spectacular sounding Audio-technical HA5050H amplifier.



Enjoy that puppy!


----------



## purk

TSAVJason said:


> Enjoy that puppy!


Thanks Jason.  I really appreciate your service.  Wish other dealers are more like u guys.  You and your team really make it happens and your customer services are really second to none.  You guys are a true asset to this hobby.


----------



## Whitigir

Congratulation @purk and welcome to the club ! You will love it!


----------



## audionewbi

rtjoa said:


> Where do you try Z1 in Australia? I am in Perth.


It is a store that I rather not name, due to lurk-warm customer service. I'll happily give shout out to store likes minidisc who go above and beyond for their customers, but this one, yea dont know.


----------



## raymogi

@Whitigir 

How do you usually use your Z1? Charge till full then run from battery power, drain the battery, then charge again?

I'm burning in the Z1 along with my new HP and IEMs now so I've been running it with AC power almost 24/7. Is it preferable to always use the battery so it can discharge as well?


----------



## Whitigir

raymogi said:


> @Whitigir
> 
> How do you usually use your Z1? Charge till full then run from battery power, drain the battery, then charge again?
> 
> I'm burning in the Z1 along with my new HP and IEMs now so I've been running it with AC power almost 24/7. Is it preferable to always use the battery so it can discharge as well?



I would use battery preferred mode, so that AC is used to charge the battery from walwart.

Since I have my Linear Regulated Power Supply, I just used it with the LPSU and "Uncheck" the battery preferred mode.  I dont even use the battery all that much


----------



## raymogi

Whitigir said:


> I would use battery preferred mode, so that AC is used to charge the battery from walwart.
> 
> Since I have my Linear Regulated Power Supply, I just used it with the LPSU and "Uncheck" the battery preferred mode.  I dont even use the battery all that much



It's just this line from the manual that bugs me:

_This player is equipped with a function to avoid battery deterioration. Battery deterioration can occur when the battery is charged and discharged repeatedly._

My understanding with li-ion battery is that it's better to always discharge them when full then charge again when it's about 30%. I used to have my Macbook Pro on AC power 24/7 and the case bulges because the battery never got discharged.


----------



## Whitigir

raymogi said:


> It's just this line from the manual that bugs me:
> 
> _This player is equipped with a function to avoid battery deterioration. Battery deterioration can occur when the battery is charged and discharged repeatedly._
> 
> My understanding with li-ion battery is that it's better to always discharge them when full then charge again when it's about 30%. I used to have my Macbook Pro on AC power 24/7 and the case bulges because the battery never got discharged.



That is another reason why I dont use the battery too much, unless it is absolutely needed.  However, Sony battery should last for a while.  My ZX2 is still running fine since 2015 ?


----------



## DaYooper

But wouldn't the battery preferred setting just keep the battery topped off when plugged in?


----------



## Whitigir

DaYooper said:


> But wouldn't the battery preferred setting just keep the battery topped off when plugged in?


Both modes : battery preferred and or AC mode will top off the battery.  However, the battery preferred mode means the DMP runs from power provided by the battery 5 banks and not the AC walwart or external source


----------



## raymogi

DaYooper said:


> But wouldn't the battery preferred setting just keep the battery topped off when plugged in?



Yeah it will keep recharging itself whenever the battery is not full. For now I just use AC power until I'm doing my critical listening session.

In the meantime, this thing makes the HD820 *sing*!


----------



## Whitigir

Yeah , it makes anything sing up


----------



## raymogi

I can't believe how wiiiiiiiiiiiide the soundstage is right now. Thank you Sony for this beautiful piece of art.


----------



## TSAVJason

raymogi said:


> Yeah it will keep recharging itself whenever the battery is not full. For now I just use AC power until I'm doing my critical listening session.
> 
> In the meantime, this thing makes the HD820 *sing*!



Very Nice!


----------



## DaYooper

I may have to unsubscribe from this thread before I go out and order one, whew.


----------



## raymogi

DaYooper said:


> I may have to unsubscribe from this thread before I go out and order one, whew.



Come join the dark side.


----------



## meomap

DaYooper said:


> I may have to unsubscribe from this thread before I go out and order one, whew.


Same here.


----------



## purk

meomap said:


> Same here.


It’s very pretty to look at and so so 1st class to operate.  Those golden knob is done to perfection!  Mine is burning in right now!


----------



## audionewbi

Can you guys please let me know how the 3.5mm sound compared to 4.4mm plug? Is DSD functional on 3.5mm out now that Sony no longer use S-Master?


----------



## meomap

purk said:


> It’s very pretty to look at and so so 1st class to operate.  Those golden knob is done to perfection!  Mine is burning in right now!



I think I prefer mine.


----------



## purk

meomap said:


> I think I prefer mine.


I like yours too.  Nothing bring in the bling like the Original Orpheus though.


----------



## nanaholic

I think it says a lot when two of the most vocal doubters of the DMP-Z1 at the beginning of this thread has now turned into fans and owner of the device.


----------



## purk (Jun 16, 2019)

nanaholic said:


> I think it says a lot when two of the most vocal doubters of the DMP-Z1 at the beginning of this thread has now turned into fans and owner of the device.



Hey...take it easy there.   I still have some mix feeling about the DMP-Z1 regarding the overall sound quality...but I have to wait until the unit is fully burn in first.  I think it has great potential and I was able to discern a great sense of timbre especially in midrange right off the bat, but I still feel that the bottom end extension and over all sense of impact and speed can be better considering its price.  For now, I will have to reserve that judgement my unit has more hours.  In term of fit and finish, it is clearly the best there is.

I figure I take the chance and buy the unit to audition for myself and in my own listening environment rather than relying on somebody else impressions.  Sure wish that Sony has a dedicated store in Atlanta, Georgia so I can try before you buy.  I assume that I need around 200 hours or so before things settle down.


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Yeah , it makes anything sing up



I knew you would buy....you buy EVERYTHING !!! LOL

Serious question, i think you've referred to the Z1 as a DAC ? How does it compare to the TA ? Which i know you own, or have owned & have you tried out your Sony Z1R's ? ( If you still have them ? )


----------



## purk

You mean these two?


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> I knew you would buy....you buy EVERYTHING !!! LOL
> 
> Serious question, i think you've referred to the Z1 as a DAC ? How does it compare to the TA ? Which i know you own, or have owned & have you tried out your Sony Z1R's ? ( If you still have them ? )



I can tell you how it sound when I had the time and spent on them.  But for direct comparison, please look forward to @purk


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> I can tell you how it sound when I had the time and spent on them.  But for direct comparison, please look forward to @purk



I look forward to both of your impressions....


----------



## Redcarmoose

I made dinner and broke out a nice bottle of wine. There was soft music playing in the background and the lights were dim. We sat having a nice meal and when I felt the moment was right I popped the question to my wife. 

I asked if I could buy a DMP-Z1..........and while this isn’t a video of my wife..... the expressions are spot on. 


So....I guess I’m not getting one?


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 16, 2019)

Redcarmoose said:


> I made dinner and broke out a nice bottle of wine. There was soft music playing in the background and the lights were dim. We sat having a nice meal and when I felt the moment was right I popped the question to my wife.
> 
> I asked if I could buy a DMP-Z1..........and while this isn’t a video of my wife..... the expressions are spot on.
> 
> ...




LOL! That is so funny.  How did u find stuff like that ?  Anyways, the best way to ask is that ...not over a dinner my friend...you take her to the mall...ask her that she has options, a shopping spree...or a brand named purse of her choice.  Then, 2 or 3 days later, you buy yourself the DMP 

If she asked about it, just say...we need to treat ourselves better as long as we are still of this universe ...avoid discussing price at all cost...LOL


----------



## TSAVJason

Redcarmoose said:


> I made dinner and broke out a nice bottle of wine. There was soft music playing in the background and the lights were dim. We sat having a nice meal and when I felt the moment was right I popped the question to my wife.
> 
> I asked if I could buy a DMP-Z1..........and while this isn’t a video of my wife..... the expressions are spot on.
> 
> ...



Hahahahaha


----------



## purk (Jun 16, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> LOL! That is so funny.  How did u find stuff like that ?  Anyways, the best way to ask is that ...not over a dinner my friend...you take her to the mall...ask her that she has options, a shopping spree...or a brand named purse of her choice.  Then, 2 or 3 days later, you buy yourself the DMP
> 
> If she asked about it, just say...we need to treat ourselves better as long as we are still of this universe ...avoid discussing price at all cost...LOL


You are such a pro Vince!

Give me times on the TA & DMP comparison as I want the DMZ to go through the burn in process.  Even at zero hour, the DMP sounds more refined to my ears.  The DMP greatest strength is being coherent with one of the sweetest midrange in the business.  I always think that the TA is too overly smooth and soft around the edge.


----------



## TSAVJason

Whitigir said:


> LOL! That is so funny.  How did u find stuff like that ?  Anyways, the best way to ask is that ...not over a dinner my friend...you take her to the mall...ask her that she has options, a shopping spree...or a brand named purse of her choice.  Then, 2 or 3 days later, you buy yourself the DMP
> 
> If she asked about it, just say...we need to treat ourselves better as long as we are still of this universe ...avoid discussing price at all cost...LOL



That’s the best weasel idea I’ve ever heard! Bravo!!


----------



## raymogi

Whitigir said:


> LOL! That is so funny.  How did u find stuff like that ?  Anyways, the best way to ask is that ...not over a dinner my friend...you take her to the mall...ask her that she has options, a shopping spree...or a brand named purse of her choice.  Then, 2 or 3 days later, you buy yourself the DMP
> 
> If she asked about it, just say...we need to treat ourselves better as long as we are still of this universe ...avoid discussing price at all cost...LOL



This was exactly what I did. I left her with the children, went into the Sony store and brought the Z1 and IER-Z1R back to the hotel.

She saw it. I told her it plays music and it looks pretty.

I bought her a bag the next day. Everyone is happy


----------



## asquare3376

meomap said:


> I think I prefer mine.


I smell a Terminator there.. Interesting stuff!!!


----------



## asquare3376

purk said:


> You mean these two?


Awesomeness!!! Btw, where do you find the HR stickers?


----------



## purk

asquare3376 said:


> Awesomeness!!! Btw, where do you find the HR stickers?



Just buy the DMP-Z1 and you will get that legendary HR stickers.  A small price to pay for an awesome badge.  Joking aside, I'm sure you can just find it on ebay.  Any HR compatible devices do come with that sticker.


----------



## asquare3376

purk said:


> Just buy the DMP-Z1 and you will get that legendary HR stickers.  A small price to pay for an awesome badge.  Joking aside, I'm sure you can just find it on ebay.  Any HR compatible devices do come with that sticker.


Thanks. Just don't remember seeing it on my dock. I could be wrong, need to check that again. 
Btw, congratulations on the new toy. When you get bored of it, feel free to send it this way


----------



## meomap

asquare3376 said:


> I smell a Terminator there.. Interesting stuff!!!


Yes, it is the Termi.
An excellent dac I would say.
Either for hp or 2 channel system downstairs would be good.
Have not test it downstairs yet. Too dam heavy at this point.
Let me enjoy upstairs system first for awhile before getting a REL subs then all pictures fit in.


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> You mean these two?



Sure do !!


----------



## buzzlulu

purk said:


> I always think that the TA is too overly smooth and soft around the edge.



That is why I sold mine


----------



## Redcarmoose

asquare3376 said:


> Awesomeness!!! Btw, where do you find the HR stickers?



Just get these? They are smaller and take up less surface-space on the device you use them with.


----------



## skr3328

Just bought the Xperia 1and using its LDAC bluetooth to stream music to the Z1. Beyond my expectation the SQ is quite good. BTW, there is a Sony Hires App available in China which offers 96 24 Hires flac streaming with subscription. Now I am a Sony fanboy.


----------



## Sp12er3 (Jun 17, 2019)

purk said:


> Thanks to @TSAVAlan & @TSAVJason for their impeccable service.  Placed my order yesterday at noon their time and my personal DMP-Z1 arrived across the country in Georgia 7 mins before noon today.  I got their last unit before more shipment at the end of the month.
> 
> Let the burn in process begin!  Such an incredible craftsmanship.  As for sound, I need more time to listen and will post later!  Let’s wait and see how it will stand up to my spectacular sounding Audio-technical HA5050H amplifier.





purk said:


> You are such a pro Vince!
> 
> Give me times on the TA & DMP comparison as I want the DMZ to go through the burn in process.  Even at zero hour, the DMP sounds more refined to my ears.  The DMP greatest strength is being coherent with one of the sweetest midrange in the business.  I always think that the TA is too overly smooth and soft around the edge.


I'm actually quite curious about how the R10 sounds out of the Z1... As I don't remember the R10 came at the same time as an accompanying flagship source... I guess it's the best of Sony's portables going across generations?


skr3328 said:


> Just bought the Xperia 1and using its LDAC bluetooth to stream music to the Z1. Beyond my expectation the SQ is quite good. BTW, there is a Sony Hires App available in China which offers 96 24 Hires flac streaming with subscription. Now I am a Sony fanboy.


That's sooo many modern Sony Flagships in one picture....
Watching a movie on the Xperia 1 while using LDAC to connect with the Z1 which powers the Z1Rs (either of them)....

Damn... that's.... Something out of a dream portable setup?

The equivalent of having to own a collection of Challenge Stradale, Scuderia, Speciale and Pista to get an allocation for an FXXK-Evo.
Baller move from completely different sort of hobby .
BTW, What's with Sony and their fixation with the number "1" and the letter "Z"?


----------



## Whitigir

LDAC works with any 8.0+ Android , doesn’t have to be Xperia’s


----------



## Sp12er3

Aye, I'm mentioning the Xperia 1 more for its AMOLED 21:9 Cinemawide 4K HDR display.
LDAC works on any Android 8.0 and up.

As long as the manufacturers enables the feature on their phones, weirdly, even doing just that is not that important in their checklist, some Android One phones lack this for some inexplicable reason.


----------



## asquare3376

skr3328 said:


> Just bought the Xperia 1and using its LDAC bluetooth to stream music to the Z1. Beyond my expectation the SQ is quite good. BTW, there is a Sony Hires App available in China which offers 96 24 Hires flac streaming with subscription. Now I am a Sony fanboy.



KimberKable on the Z1R? Link please, and also how does it compare with the stock cable?


----------



## buzzlulu

That is the standard Sony/Kimber collaboration - not the Axios


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> That is the standard Sony/Kimber collaboration - not the Axios


What differentiated Axios to regular ?


----------



## asquare3376

buzzlulu said:


> That is the standard Sony/Kimber collaboration - not the Axios


My question still pertains - how does it differ with the stock one? Stock is quite good in my opinion. Wonder what extra Sony KK has to offer!


----------



## TSAVJason

asquare3376 said:


> KimberKable on the Z1R? Link please, and also how does it compare with the stock cable?


Seriously Amit? You’ve tried them out here at the store. You should be familiar already


----------



## TSAVJason

Whitigir said:


> What differentiated Axios to regular ?



Gauge, copper clarity and weave.


----------



## asquare3376

TSAVJason said:


> Seriously Amit? You’ve tried them out here at the store. You should be familiar already


Hahaha, Jason, I miss you too
I am asking about the Kimber on the IER-Z1R, the IEM


----------



## buzzlulu

TSAVJason said:


> Gauge, copper clarity and weave.



As well as over all build quality.
The Axios is a different animal


----------



## TSAVJason (Jun 17, 2019)

asquare3376 said:


> Hahaha, Jason, I miss you too
> I am asking about the Kimber on the IER-Z1R, the IEM



You just keep sticking crap in your ears hahahaha

I can’t provide opinion on that. I haven’t tried any IE cables


----------



## skr3328 (Jun 17, 2019)

asquare3376 said:


> KimberKable on the Z1R? Link please, and also how does it compare with the stock cable?


Bought it at an authorized retailer on Taobao but I heard it is now discontinued and out of stock.Some people said the Kimber is "downgrade cable" ,but I think it is obviously better than the stock cable for its wider sound stage ,clear and more separated bass. The price is around 150 usd why not give it a try? If you want to get one please find a trusted seller because fake kimber cables are everywhere.


----------



## asquare3376

skr3328 said:


> Bought it at an authorized retailer on Taobao but I heard it is now discontinued and out of stock.Some people said the Kimber is "downgrade cable" ,but I think it is obviously better than the stock cable for its wider sound stage ,clear and more separated bass. The price is around 150 usd why not give it a try? If you want to get one please find a trusted seller because fake kimber cables are everywhere.


Thanks buddy. If I ever get my hands on $150, I will text @TSAVJason and use that as a down payment for the DMP-Z1


----------



## TSAVJason

asquare3376 said:


> Thanks buddy. If I ever get my hands on $150, I will text @TSAVJason and use that as a down payment for the DMP-Z1



Depending on how much of a positive thinker you are you could think of  that $150 is “nearly paid off”


----------



## jonstatt

The Sony kimber cable dates back to 2016 for the XBA series and does not have the thickened stems to help shape it over the ears like the bundled cable.


----------



## Whitigir

TSAVJason said:


> Gauge, copper clarity and weave.


So, by look you can tell if one is Axios or not.  The one inside DMP, is it of Axios ?


----------



## TSAVJason

Whitigir said:


> So, by look you can tell if one is Axios or not.  The one inside DMP, is it of Axios ?



Sony does use Kimber wire on the internals. It is not braided like the AXIOS. Kimber AXIOS is only for headphones to amplifier connectivity.


----------



## Whitigir

TSAVJason said:


> Sony does use Kimber wire on the internals. It is not braided like the AXIOS. Kimber AXIOS is only for headphones to amplifier connectivity.


I meant to ask about the copper clarity or copper quality of the one being used inside the DMP.  Is it of Kimber top Copper ? Or is it only common copper


----------



## TSAVJason

Whitigir said:


> I meant to ask about the copper clarity or copper quality of the one being used inside the DMP.  Is it of Kimber top Copper ? Or is it only common copper



Ah, I understand now, yes. It is their top grade copper clarity. They did not wire it with the Sony Kimber wire like other components have been


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> I meant to ask about the copper clarity or copper quality of the one being used inside the DMP.  Is it of Kimber top Copper ? Or is it only common copper



I hope it isn’t just an OFC large gauge cable.


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> I hope it isn’t just an OFC large gauge cable.



It is OFC of course. It’s not your typical OFC, it’s their premium grade.


----------



## audionewbi

The cable looks like the same cable used for MUC-B20SB1.


----------



## darkzeros88

Hi guys, planning to get the holy grail DMP-Z1 soon. For those who purchased it, how long does it take for the player to burn in fully? Thanks!


----------



## skr3328 (Jun 19, 2019)

darkzeros88 said:


> Hi guys, planning to get the holy grail DMP-Z1 soon. For those who purchased it, how long does it take for the player to burn in fully? Thanks!


200 hrs as Sony officially suggested.


----------



## darkzeros88

skr3328 said:


> 200 hrs as Sony officially suggested.


Awesome! Much appreciated buddy!


----------



## purk

So 300 hours then.


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> So 300 hours then.


 
That’s funny lol


----------



## raymogi

skr3328 said:


> 200 hrs as Sony officially suggested.



Oh wow it’s all inside the unit. And I never bothered to click on that Guide to HQ sound


----------



## Whitigir

So my Iron is out again >.< , another LPSU is live!  Hell lot of work, and I actually accidentally burned my finger...who the heck does that =/


----------



## TSAVJason (Jun 20, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> So my Iron is out again >.< , another LPSU is live!  Hell lot of work, and I actually accidentally burned my finger...who the heck does that =/



Hahahaha You knucklehead!  of all people I would’ve thought you’d keep your fingers clear ....... repetition might cure that habit


----------



## raymogi

I forgot I can change the settings in Windows' Sounds sample size and bit rate. This is fine right? I just choose the highest that is available to me there, 32-bit and 384kHz.


----------



## Whitigir

You should be using Wasapi or Asio4all driver instead


----------



## TSAVJason

Whitigir said:


> You should be using Wasapi or Asio4all driver instead



That’s interesting! I haven’t tried either. Do what do you prefer about them?


----------



## TSAVJason

raymogi said:


> I forgot I can change the settings in Windows' Sounds sample size and bit rate. This is fine right? I just choose the highest that is available to me there, 32-bit and 384kHz.


That’s a sweet photo


----------



## Whitigir

TSAVJason said:


> That’s a sweet photo


DMP always look good like a super model


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> DMP always look good like a super model



She looks so hot but runs cool to the touch.


----------



## raymogi

purk said:


> She looks so hot but runs cool to the touch.



Been burning in mine nonstop for a week now I think. Aircon on or not, it stays the same temperature.


----------



## purk

raymogi said:


> Been burning in mine nonstop for a week now I think. Aircon on or not, it stays the same temperature.




Well in some ways Sony have proven that u don’t need to be operating entirely in a Class “A” to sound great.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> Well in some ways Sony have proven that u don’t need to be operating entirely in a Class “A” to sound great.


Yamaha too ! And that is with their flagship A-S3000 for my large system


----------



## TSAVJason

Whitigir said:


> Yamaha too ! And that is with their flagship A-S3000 for my large system




What?!!! You use Yo mama ha?


----------



## gsiu33

When shall we recharge DMP-Z1, battery drop below 20%.


----------



## nanaholic

gsiu33 said:


> When shall we recharge DMP-Z1, battery drop below 20%.



Just leave it plugged in, the device is smart enough to prioritise battery or AC operation depending on battery level.


----------



## purk

Questions to other DMP owners out there.  Do you feel that The asking price is justified after owning it for awhile?  How would u rate the DMP in sound department alone:  excellent +, excellent, very good, or good.  Any drawback in term of sound quality?


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> Questions to other DMP owners out there.  Do you feel that The asking price is justified after owning it for awhile?  How would u rate the DMP in sound department alone:  excellent +, excellent, very good, or good.  Any drawback in term of sound quality?



There is one drawback I found. Damn things are hard to get!


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> Questions to other DMP owners out there.  Do you feel that The asking price is justified after owning it for awhile?  How would u rate the DMP in sound department alone:  excellent +, excellent, very good, or good.  Any drawback in term of sound quality?



I dont know about other, but I was tired of the digital source and the playback apps being buggy and problems everywhere.  I am strictly talking about digital source that you would need a cables like USB or I2S and an interfaces with good quality that can playback at quality without bugs,  errors, and degrading the sound.

I had built myself a $3500 PC that is dedicated Into music with I2S interface, linear powersupply and upgraded clocks components, and upgraded HDMI , USB cables, which can easily add up into 4k easily and that is without a DAC and an Amplifier...and it still bugg me out....so think about that.  I dont regret building my PC as it can server other purposes, but for being a dedicated source alone by itself....hardly justifiable as the quality isnt all there.  

Therefore, the main reason why I looked toward DMP and then loving the engineering, the components that goes in it, then decide to buy it.

Seriously, for an all in one device that can operate on battery or AC and switch on the fly, drive fullsize headphones, and built with all the most sophisticated components ? It is still cheap for it price.  

If you look at it as a DAP , then it is expensive, but if you look at it as a Desktop system that includes sources, Amp, interconnect cables, battery power....it is cheap.


----------



## Whitigir

TSAVJason said:


> There is one drawback I found. Damn things are hard to get!


Let me guess....the analog amplification section .  Why dont you wait until DMP Z2


----------



## TSAVJason

Whitigir said:


> Let me guess....the analog amplification section .  Why dont you wait until DMP Z2



Yeah not so much. Mostly the drawback for me is Sony only sends 4-6 into the US every 45 days or so. I don’t think customers that want them want to wait that long. To be honest, it took me a few days to appreciate the DMP. Now I’ve grown to really like it.


----------



## Whitigir

TSAVJason said:


> Yeah not so much. Mostly the drawback for me is Sony only sends 4-6 into the US every 45 days or so. I don’t think customers that want them want to wait that long. To be honest, it took me a few days to appreciate the DMP. Now I’ve grown to really like it.



It needs burn in and it still continue to improve even when beyond 500 hours .

I too am in love with DMP.  It is an all in one device that is highend desktop worthy which is carriable and no stacking requires or cables attached


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Jun 28, 2019)

LDAC + DSEE = A++ sound.

I manage the battery at between 20–80%, never charge to 100. That's how I manage on iPhone and iPad. My first gen iPad is still going strong with hours of battery life.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

TSAVJason said:


> There is one drawback I found. Damn things are hard to get!



Agreed. Ordered mine in February,  got it last week. I guess good things come to those who wait...


----------



## TSAVAlan

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Agreed. Ordered mine in February,  got it last week. I guess good things come to those who wait...


Short wait~


----------



## TSAVJason

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Agreed. Ordered mine in February,  got it last week. I guess good things come to those who wait...



Hi Mike, what a surprise to see your post. Hope you’re rested up after SoCal CanJam


----------



## HiFiGuy528

TSAVJason said:


> Hi Mike, what a surprise to see your post. Hope you’re rested up after SoCal CanJam



resting is for lazy people.  I'm all go, go, go, go....


----------



## TSAVJason (Jun 28, 2019)

The Mike has been known he only hurries to food or Sony products. Otherwise you’re slow like a snail but we still like you .....sometimes


----------



## purk

TSAVAlan said:


> Short wait~


For some lucky buyer....


----------



## raymogi

purk said:


> Questions to other DMP owners out there.  Do you feel that The asking price is justified after owning it for awhile?  How would u rate the DMP in sound department alone:  excellent +, excellent, very good, or good.  Any drawback in term of sound quality?



For this piece of art? Worth every penny.

I don't have much experience with a lot of music players, but I would say this one is excellent+++++++.


----------



## TSAVJason

raymogi said:


> For this piece of art? Worth every penny.
> 
> I don't have much experience with a lot of music players, but I would say this one is excellent+++++++.



It definitely doesn’t suck!


----------



## audionewbi (Jun 28, 2019)

purk said:


> Questions to other DMP owners out there.  Do you feel that The asking price is justified after owning it for awhile?  How would u rate the DMP in sound department alone:  excellent +, excellent, very good, or good.  Any drawback in term of sound quality?



Not an owner, but had relatively extensive listening to it and for me if I had the money, as a Sony 'fanboy' it would be an easy YES. But if I was to just be concerned about sound I can spend that 10,000 AUD building something that can outclass the DMP.

I had a chance to pair my trusty QA361 balance out into a mass-kobo amp and boy I was floored. I did not buy the mass-kobo as it is a still a stack and I need to buy a high quality interconnect (not that I must, but I know I will), QA361 UI isn't too good, if you want the best sound out of QA361 you need to buy a LPSU, and before I know it I have a messy stake costing me half of what DMP-Z1 goes for. So I see the appeal for DMP.

I think for IEM/headphone having a high quality AMP is much more important than having a high end DAC with average amp. I recently listened to MG3 paired with AK70 to feed my IER-Z1R. After listening to that I realised Z1R has a lot more to offer.

I think those who bough the DMP-Z1 will not be sorry as it is a unique product. My only wish and what held me back is lack of DSD512 and 32/768 PCM. At home I heavily upsample my favourite music and I want a product that can do that for me.
For 10K I wish it did, now patiently waiting for Monday to see what 40 year anniversary walkman would look like.


----------



## Blueoris

Whitigir said:


> I dont know about other, but I was tired of the digital source and the playback apps being buggy and problems everywhere.  I am strictly talking about digital source that you would need a cables like USB or I2S and an interfaces with good quality that can playback at quality without bugs,  errors, and degrading the sound.
> 
> I had built myself a $3500 PC that is dedicated Into music with I2S interface, linear powersupply and upgraded clocks components, and upgraded HDMI , USB cables, which can easily add up into 4k easily and that is without a DAC and an Amplifier...and it still bugg me out....so think about that.  I dont regret building my PC as it can server other purposes, but for being a dedicated source alone by itself....hardly justifiable as the quality isnt all there.
> 
> ...



I understand the pain of stacking up components, only to starting worry about synergies, powersupplies, cables, HHD and RAM types, media players etc. 

One can easily get into OCD. All in One is great. I went a different route with a Simaudio Moon Ace. Really flexible in terms of inputs / outputs. Tube like relaxed / refined sound. Drives my Sennheiser HD600 perfectly as well as my speakers. 

Technically speaking, it can't be compared with the dmp-z1, but follows the same minimalist approach.


----------



## gsiu33

gsiu33 said:


> When shall we recharge DMP-Z1, battery drop below 20%.





nanaholic said:


> Just leave it plugged in, the device is smart enough to prioritise battery or AC operation depending on battery level.


I move around in home and unlikely to plug it in all the time. Similar to the WM1Z, I recharged it to 100%, then recharge it again when the battery drop to 20+%, is it a good habit or does not matter?


----------



## raymogi

gsiu33 said:


> I move around in home and unlikely to plug it in all the time. Similar to the WM1Z, I recharged it to 100%, then recharge it again when the battery drop to 20+%, is it a good habit or does not matter?



That's what I did too. I never let it go below 20%. I leave it plugged all the time though. When I'm down for serious listening, I just switch to battery power. When I just want to do casual listening, AC power is fine.


----------



## gsiu33

Can we use Sony remote control RMT-NWS20 on DMP-Z1?


----------



## gsiu33

gsiu33 said:


> Can we use Sony remote control RMT-NWS20 on DMP-Z1?


Seems they cannot work together


----------



## audionewbi

gsiu33 said:


> Can we use Sony remote control RMT-NWS20 on DMP-Z1?


Not at this stage, but I'm sure in future FW release, this will be fixed.


----------



## gsiu33

audionewbi said:


> Not at this stage, but I'm sure in future FW release, this will be fixed.


Thanks audionewbi.

Hope Sony will support it soon


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 29, 2019)

I am going to share to DMP owner of what other people have been finding regarding external (linear power supply unit) LPSU.  Check out this post

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/qls-qa361-impression-thread.866536/page-13#post-15034827


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Jun 29, 2019)

gsiu33 said:


> Can we use Sony remote control RMT-NWS20 on DMP-Z1?



Not possible bc the volume control on DMP is analog.



TSAVJason said:


> The Mike has been known he only hurries to food or Sony products. Otherwise you’re slow like a snail but we still like you .....sometimes



I am motivated by food, high-end Sony and Apple products - in that order.


----------



## gsiu33 (Jun 30, 2019)

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Not possible bc the volume control on DMP is analog.



My amplifier volume control is also analog and come with a remote control.

But I doubt if DMP-Z1 already included those mechanism that allow remote control of the volume.


----------



## Whitigir

gsiu33 said:


> My amplifier volume control is also analog and come with a remote control.
> 
> But I doubt if DMP-Z1 already included those mechanism that allow remote control of the volume.


The problem isn’t the volume control being analog or digital, the problem is how it was engineered.  The DMP Z1 has maxed out gains after the digital to analog conversion with 0 digital attenuation , and then attenuated down by the volume wheel, which is rk501 and is not motorized.  How could you remote control that ?


----------



## audionewbi

I think been able to FF and REW tracks, while once you set your volume can be beneficial.


----------



## purk

So DMZ stands for Demilitarized Zone....didn't realize Sony has a hidden agenda when creating a DMP-Z1.


----------



## Sp12er3

Almost Forgot, but today is 1st of July, ain't it?
Happy 40th Birthday, Walkman.


----------



## blazinblazin




----------



## Whitigir

Yeah, and we all have DMP to celebrate.  It is the biggest Walkman yet


----------



## DaYooper

Whitigir said:


> Yeah, and we all have DMP to celebrate.  It is the biggest Walkman yet


nice


----------



## CoryGillmore (Jul 1, 2019)

Sp12er3 said:


> Almost Forgot, but today is 1st of July, ain't it?
> Happy 40th Birthday, Walkman.


That the first ever Walkman? That looks dope actually. I've still got a Walkman CD player from like 2003ish and it's the best portable CD player I've ever had. Matter of fact...I haven't even turned that thing on in probably 10 years...what are the chances that thing would sound good with any of my modern Sony headphones? IER-M9? 1AM2? MDR-Z7? I feel an experiment coming haha. Will probably sound like ass, right?

EDIT: wow yeah that was pretty bad LOL. Back in the closet with you!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

work and play....


----------



## bmichels

HiFiGuy528 said:


> work and play....




nice picture.   please can you tell if the files stored on the DMP's internal memory play better or not than the files stored on your laptop  and played via USB ?

thanks


----------



## 329161

Sp12er3 said:


> Almost Forgot, but today is 1st of July, ain't it?
> Happy 40th Birthday, Walkman.


We're not worthy, we're not worthy.


----------



## 329161

Had a listen to the dmp. Beautifully refined and articulate. Very audiophile oriented, but curiously underpowered. I guess they made this source with their own headphones in mind.


----------



## purk (Jul 3, 2019)

dcfac73 said:


> Had a listen to the dmp. Beautifully refined and articulate. Very audiophile oriented, but curiously underpowered. I guess they made this source with their own headphones in mind.




Maybe under power for hard to drive orthos but I think the DMP does a very fine job driving the HD800.  Yes, my other amps can punch a little harder but the DMP is very very refined.  Some of its musical characteristic are even better than my HA5050H amp.  Overall, I still think my HA5050H is still better sounding than the DMP-Z1 though as well as the ECP Ravenswood and L3 using the Matrix X-Sabre pro DAC.  Of course none of those are transportable and run on battery.


----------



## 329161

purk said:


> Maybe under power for hard to drive orthos but I think the DMP does a very fine job driving the HD800.  Yes, my other amps can punch a little harder but the DMP is very very refined.  Some of its musical characteristic are even better than my HA5050H amp.  Overall, I still think my HA5050H is still better sounding than the DMP-Z1 though as well as the ECP Ravenswood and L3 using the Matrix X-Sabre pro DAC.  Of course none of those are transportable and run on battery.


I was using the Z1R overear with the dmp, in SE mode, and the dial was pretty much maxed out at a good listening level. But, as pointed out earlier, very smooth and refined. To me, not worthy of my hard earned bikkies anyway.


----------



## purk (Jul 3, 2019)

dcfac73 said:


> I was using the Z1R overear with the dmp, in SE mode, and the dial was pretty much maxed out at a good listening level. But, as pointed out earlier, very smooth and refined. To me, not worthy of my hard earned bikkies anyway.




My DMP is at 280 hours or so and I have yet to try the SE.  In balanced mode, i am about 1 to 2 o’clock on the volume dial for HD800.  Plenty loud enough for me.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Jul 3, 2019)

@bmichels music played through the computer is much lower quality than the internal storage or using a Walkman to any DAC/amp. The computer is mostly for convenience... not good for best sound.

I have about 117 hrs. on DMP. Been using balanced output with Diana Phi mostly. My typical listening volume is 1–2 o'clock position.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 3, 2019)

DMP has 1.5W into 15 ohms on high-gain out of balanced port.  Still not enough ? Hm.....if I recalled correctly, Z1R is very easy to get loud based on it sensitivity per Db.  I am almost sure that using 4.4mm with high gain and maxed out volume would bring you deafness.

It is probably 250mW into 16 ohms out of single ended port on low gain.  Now, that is very low....so what I am curious is....why use Z1R and SE ? The thing comes with 4.4mm cables


----------



## bmichels

HiFiGuy528 said:


> @bmichels music played through the computer is much lower quality than the internal storage or using a Walkman to any DAC/amp. The computer is mostly for convenience... not good for best sound.
> 
> I have about 117 hrs. on DMP. Been using balanced output with Diana Phi mostly. My typical listening volume is 1–2 o'clock position.



Thanks for your precise reply.  I see you use the Diana phy and like it. I am tempted by the DMP and wonder Which headphone is the best with the DMP.  I was also considering Hifiman HE1000se . . .


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> Thanks for your precise reply.  I see you use the Diana phy and like it. I am tempted by the DMP and wonder Which headphone is the best with the DMP.  I was also considering Hifiman HE1000se . . .


DMP has a warmth signature, even warmer than WM1Z at places, but thicker and denser timbre body while reaching those top end and treble details beautifully.  For this, I would recommend anything with a more neutral and flat gears such as HD800 or HD800S...can’t recommend any of the Hi-Fi Man line up as I have none


----------



## raypin (Jul 7, 2019)

Mm...my default headphone with the dmp is......sony z1r/balanced stock cable.....around 10 o’ clock on the volume pot. Too lazy to experiment with other headphones. For dmp iem listening, the Hifiman RE2000 gold (love it).  Hifiman sent me a balanced cable (4.4 mm) at no cost (shipping cost mine).



Whitigir said:


> DMP has 1.5W into 15 ohms on high-gain out of balanced port.  Still not enough ? Hm.....if I recalled correctly, Z1R is very easy to get loud based on it sensitivity per Db.  I am almost sure that using 4.4mm with high gain and maxed out volume would bring you deafness.
> 
> It is probably 250mW into 16 ohms out of single ended port on low gain.  Now, that is very low....so what I am curious is....why use Z1R and SE ? The thing comes with 4.4mm cables


----------



## Whitigir

The ultimate full-scale desktop with Electro-stat system which is also the superior technology to my ears, and yet also very transportable


----------



## skr3328

dcfac73 said:


> I was using the Z1R overear with the dmp, in SE mode, and the dial was pretty much maxed out at a good listening level. But, as pointed out earlier, very smooth and refined. To me, not worthy of my hard earned bikkies anyway.


I use the Z1R overear in balance under low gain mode playing DSD (which the recoding volume lever way lower than WAV of FLAC),and the dial is at 11 O clock. The IER Z1R even needs louder volume than the overear.


----------



## paulchiu

Stereophile tested Sony 'Walkman for the Wealthy'

Ex-Editor and current Technical Editor of Stereophile Magazine John Atkinson reviewed and bench tested the Sony DMP-Z1 in their August 2019 issue.
It's a comprehensive report based on 4 weeks of listening, lab measurements and associated equipment comparisons.
Pick the issue up and enjoy.

Paul


----------



## Whitigir

I am freaking tired of going without a leather case to cover the mirror surface.  It may get scratched too easily.

So I just freaking need to make it for my own good
Here is a home made, hand stitched and ready for going everywhere

Stand alone mode : leather case covered
   

Packed to be traveling on the go Mode: fit right inside the stock case without issues



On the go in the back pack mode: fit straight into little sling bag without worrying about anything to damage it or leave scratches


----------



## phonomat

Or you could perhaps give us a hint about their verdict (assuming you have read the article). Unfortunately, many of us can't buy STEREOPHILE where we live, and it doesn't seem to be available online ...


----------



## Audiophile2019

phonomat said:


> Or you could perhaps give us a hint about their verdict (assuming you have read the article). Unfortunately, many of us can't buy STEREOPHILE where we live, and it doesn't seem to be available online ...


Have you tried subscribing online through MAGZTER? I just did (from Malaysia) & it only cost USD7 for whole 12 months' subscription...


----------



## paulchiu

phonomat said:


> Or you could perhaps give us a hint about their verdict (assuming you have read the article). Unfortunately, many of us can't buy STEREOPHILE where we live, and it doesn't seem to be available online ...



John Atkinson compared it to Ayre QX-5 Twenty.  The Ayre is A+ ranked by Stereophile in its semi-annual recommendation editions.  That's the top rating.  Next is A, B, etc.
A+ means state of the art & the best sounding in its class.

Atkinson did a thorough report on the various DSP modes, tone controls, and digital filters.  One particular he noted and liked was Short Delay Sharp filter which gave a better sense of soundstage depth with headphones.
Over the month he tested the DMP-Z1, he listened using the Audeze LCD-X, Audioquest Nighthawk, and Sennheiser HD650.  Sadly, he did not have any balanced headphones to try that output from the DMP-Z1.  

Hope this helps.

Paul


----------



## purk

paulchiu said:


> John Atkinson compared it to Ayre QX-5 Twenty.  The Ayre is A+ ranked by Stereophile in its semi-annual recommendation editions.  That's the top rating.  Next is A, B, etc.
> A+ means state of the art & the best sounding in its class.
> 
> Atkinson did a thorough report on the various DSP modes, tone controls, and digital filters.  One particular he noted and liked was Short Delay Sharp filter which gave a better sense of soundstage depth with headphones.
> ...



How can he test a product such as the Z1 and don’t have any balanced headphones is beyond me.  Like you said, this is quite sad.


----------



## paulchiu

purk said:


> How can he test a product such as the Z1 and don’t have any balanced headphones is beyond me.  Like you said, this is quite sad.



Yes, one would think if Sony load the DMP-Z1 to Stereophile, they would also add the IER-Z1R with it.  I know John Atkinson loved both the Shure KSE1200 and the Audeze LCD-i4. (I bought both mostly based on his recommendations). Maybe Sony was out of stock on the IER-Z1R at the time, who knows for sure.


----------



## phonomat

paulchiu said:


> John Atkinson compared it to Ayre QX-5 Twenty.  The Ayre is A+ ranked by Stereophile in its semi-annual recommendation editions.  That's the top rating.  Next is A, B, etc.
> A+ means state of the art & the best sounding in its class.
> 
> Atkinson did a thorough report on the various DSP modes, tone controls, and digital filters.  One particular he noted and liked was Short Delay Sharp filter which gave a better sense of soundstage depth with headphones.
> ...



Thanks a lot! Sounds good, but neglecting to test the balanced output does indeed seem like a rather unfortunate oversight.




Audiophile2019 said:


> Have you tried subscribing online through MAGZTER? I just did (from Malaysia) & it only cost USD7 for whole 12 months' subscription...



Thanks, I might try that.


----------



## Whitigir

Finally finished the protective sealant coat for my new leather case


----------



## paulchiu

Whitigir said:


> Finally finished the protective sealant coat for my new leather case



Kickstarter!


----------



## paulchiu

Before the August Stereophile Magazine came out,
Amazon US, UK and Japan all had a few Sony DMP-Z1 in stock, now they are a few weeks to a few months wait.


----------



## audionewbi

One thing I noticed on DMP-Z1 review is the rather high output impedance of 5.5 ohm on single ended. This suggest balance might be 11 ohm? Maybe this explain why some IEM user have mix feeling about Z1.


----------



## paulchiu

Just called my Sony dealer rep and ordered one DMP-Z1.
Looking forward to using it with Sony IER-Z1R and its big brother.


----------



## phonomat

paulchiu said:


> Just called my Sony dealer rep and ordered one DMP-Z1.
> Looking forward to using it with Sony IER-Z1R and its big brother.



What, just one?


----------



## bmichels

phonomat said:


> Thanks a lot! Sounds good, but neglecting to test the balanced output does indeed seem like a rather unfortunate oversight.



Agree.... this is not super-profesionnel.


----------



## Whitigir

The DMP Z1 is so much more practical and user friendly when having a soft leather cover to avoid leaving scratches onto that mirror finishes. 

Here is using as a back stand for the iPad pro, typing, visiting headfi, whatever else


----------



## paulchiu

Could you run Roon Remote and not have to touch the DMP-Z1 at all except for the filters?


----------



## skr3328

Here is the full review from Stereophile


Sony DMP-Z1
DIGITAL MUSIC PLAYER
JOHN ATKINSON
Apple may not have been the first to market with a portable digital audio player, but its original iPod defined the genre: a device small enough to fit into a shirt pocket. When companies like Acoustic Research, Astell&Kern, Fiio, HiFiMan, and Questyle introduced portable players that could play high-resolution files, they echoed the iPod’s form factor. The exception was the Toblerone-shaped PonoPlayer, but even that was small. The subject of this review is another exception: The DMP-Z1, from Sony’s Signature Series, is comparatively enormous—almost the size and weight of a regular preamplifier. At $8500, it’s also considerably more expensive than other players.

*A Walkman?*
The last high-resolution music player from Sony we reviewed was the HAP-Z1ES ($2000), which Kalman Rubinson wrote about favorably in May 2014;1 that player is intended to be used in a conventional system. The DMP-Z1 is described on Sony’s website as a Walkman—though perhaps it’s more of a SitInTheLimoMan. Either way, it’s an elegant-looking piece of kit finished mostly in gloss black, with a color touchscreen in the center of its top panel.

Dominating the DMP-Z1’s front panel is a large, megabling, gold-plated brass volume-control knob—a window in the top panel reveals even more of the knob. At the front edge of the top panel, between the volume control and the window, are three buttons: Track Backward, Play/Pause—this has a raised stud in the center so you can find it without looking—and Track Forward. To the Volume knob’s right is another button; pressing and holding it for four seconds turns on the DMP-Z1. To the knob’s left are two headphone outputs: conventional single-ended stereo on a 3.5mm jack, and balanced stereo on Sony’s 0.17" Balanced-Standard jack. These can be set to Normal or High Gain (+6dB).

The rear panel has a USB-C port and a 19.5V DC jack for charging the DMP-Z1’s internal battery. (The percentage of battery charge is shown at the top right of the touchscreen.) The player’s 256GB of internal storage can be supplemented with two microSD cards, their mounting slots concealed under a hinged panel on the player’s left side. When you connect the DMP-Z1 to a host computer with USB, the player asks if you want to turn on USB Mass Storage. Touching “OK” mounts the internal storage drive on your computer’s screen. To copy music files to the DMPZ1, Sony recommends their Music Center for PC app, or drag’n’dropping content with Windows Explorer. Mac users can simply copy files using the Finder. When you turn off USB Mass Storage, the message “Creating Database” appears on the Sony’s screen, followed by the player’s Library screen.

*Playing music*
Other than the four physical buttons, everything is controlled with the DMP-Z1’s touchscreen. The Library screen shows what music is stored on the player; the library can be sorted by “All Songs,” “Album,” “Artist,” “Genre,” “Release Year,” “Composer,” “Playlists,” and “Hi-Res.” This screen also allows the user to select the USB DAC and Bluetooth Receiver functions. When a song is playing, the screen in Standard mode shows the cover art and song info. Other modes are Spectrum Analyzer (octave bands plus a couple extra) and Analog Level Meter. The Library screen can be accessed when a song is playing by swiping down and exited by swiping up. Songs can be bookmarked or added to a playlist.

*Inside the box*
Following the DMP-Z1’s premiere at the Hong Kong Advanced Audiovisual Exhibition in the summer of 2018, Rafe Arnott previewed it on our InnerFidelity website.2 According to Rafe, the DMP-Z1 uses a pair of Asahi Kasei Microdevices AK4497EQ DAC chips, a 32-bit part operating with PCM data at sample rates up to 768kHz, and DSD data sampled at up to 22.4MHz. The AK4497EQ features what AKM calls Velvet Sound technology, which appears to be high-current capability, and also offers six choices for the reconstruction filter, these operating with 32-bit precision. Sony labels these filters Sharp, Slow, Short Delay Sharp, Short Delay Slow, Super Slow, and Low Dispersion Short Delay. A filter is selected by pressing the toolbox icon in the bottom right of the touchscreen, then Output Settings and DAC Filtering Selection. When a different filter is chosen, the player mutes for a few seconds as the new filter coefficients are loaded, then resumes play.

The DMP-Z1 offers a variety of DSP functions: a 10-band graphic equalizer; bass, midrange, and treble tone controls; DSEE HX, which upsamples lossy-compressed and CD-definition data; DSD Remastering, which transcodes PCM data to 5.6MHz DSD; a Dynamic Normalizer, which minimizes loudness differences for different tracks; and a Vinyl Processor—this last said to produce “rich sound that is close to the playback from a vinyl record on a turntable.” As well as a standard setting, Vinyl Processor can be customized with adjustments for surface noise, tonearm resonance, and turntable resonance. Purists like me can bypass all these options, other than DSD Remastering, by selecting “Direct Source (Direct).” For playback of DSD files there are two ultrasonic-rolloff filter options and gain settings of 0 and–3dB, the latter recommended to avoid clipping.

The headphone outputs use high-performance Texas Instruments TPA6120A2 chips, which I last saw in Music Hall’s ph25.2 headphone amplifier, reviewed by Sam Tellig in May 2010. The internal wiring is all sourced from Kimber Kable.

*Setup*
I don’t have headphones fitted with Sony’s Balanced-Standard TRRS jack plug, so for my auditioning I used the 3.5mm stereo output jack. When you plug in a pair of headphones, the DMP-Z1 mutes and an orange light on its top panel illuminates. The player is unmuted by turning the Volume knob to its minimum position and back again, or by waiting a few seconds. I didn’t need to use the player’s High Gain mode with the low-impedance Audeze LCD-X and AudioQuest NightHawk headphones, though it did help with the high-impedance Sennheiser HD 650s.

As the Sony has two slots for microSD cards, I first tried to play familiar music files stored on two cards I’d been using with my PonoPlayer: a 16GB PNY and a 64GB SanDisk Ultra Plus. However, the DMP-Z1 couldn’t find the files on these cards. When I looked at the manual to see what I was doing wrong, I found this: “Use a microSD card that has been formatted on the player. Sony does not guarantee the operation of other microSD cards.” I reformatted the cards with the DMP-Z1—it uses the FAT32 file system—and recopied the music files to them from my laptop. Still no joy. Farther down the relevant page of the manual it says, “Sony does not guarantee the operation of all types of compatible microSD cards with the player.” Perhaps that was the problem.

I unmounted the cards and began using both the music that had been included in the DMP-Z1’s internal storage and files I copied to the DMP-Z1 from my Mac mini via USB. I also connected the Sony’s USB port to a port on my Roon Nucleus+ server and selected “USB DAC” on the touchscreen. Roon 1.6 running on my iPad mini recognized the Sony as “Player (ALSA),” and once I’d enabled it as a playback zone, with DSD data transmitted as DoP, and defined the DMP-Z1 as an MQA decoder and/or renderer, I could stream music to it from the Nucleus’s internal storage.

In USB DAC mode, the DMP-Z1’s display shows a bargraph level meter for each channel, as well as the sample rate of the incoming data. With Roon performing the first or both unfoldings of MQA-encoded, 192kHz-sampled data, the Sony peculiarly displayed, respectively, “PCM 96kHz” or “PCM 48kHz.” The display correctly showed the sample rate with linear PCM or DSD data in USB DAC mode, however. And MQA files played from the DMP-Z1’s internal storage were identified as “MQA,” with the unfolded sample rate displayed. With all files that have a bit depth greater than 16 or a sample rate higher than 48kHz, including MQA-encoded files, “HR” (for “Hi-Res”) appeared at the top of the Sony’s screen, to the right of the sample rate.

Sony provides a “Guide to High Quality Sound,” accessible from the display’s Settings page. The guide indicates that the DMP-Z1 uses polymer capacitors and Panasonic POSCAP capacitors in the amplifier circuit, and that these need 200 hours of break-in with music playing before they will produce the “highest quality sound.” I didn’t have the DMP-Z1 long enough to get to the 200-hour point, but I noticed no changes in the player’s sound during the four weeks I listened to it.

I briefly played with the DMP-Z1’s DSP functions, but other than DSD Remastering and the reconstruction-filter choices, I didn’t spend significant time auditioning them. They are what they are. Nor did I audition the Bluetooth mode—regardless of the convenience, I’m no fan of Bluetooth3—other than to check that it worked with my iPhone 6S. It did.

*Listening to filters*
As with some other processors and headphone amplifiers we’ve recently reviewed, the DMP-Z1’s filter options complicated the auditioning. I echo Herb Reichert’s question in the May 2019 issue: “Have filters become the digital equivalent of analog tone controls? … which one am I _supposed_ to like? Most important, why am I being forced to choose?”4 Nevertheless, I spent the best part of a day auditioning the Sony’s six reconstruction filters, in the process draining the DMP-Z1’s battery from fully charged to 19%.

The Sony simply stepped out of the way of the music.
With CD-resolution music—_eg_, “Satellites,” from Rickie Lee Jones’s _Flying Cowboys_(16/44.1 AAC file, Geffen), an album produced by the late Walter Becker that has superb dynamic range but can sound a bit forward in the upper mids—the Short Delay Slow filter gave the most palpable imaging. But it was close between that filter and the Slow filter, both sounding less “shouty” than the Super Slow filter.

Differences between filters were more difficult to hear at higher sample rates. With a needle drop of violinist David Abel and pianist Julie Steinberg performing Beethoven’s Violin Sonata 10 in G, Op.96 (24/192 ALAC from LP, Wilson Audiophile W-8315), the Short Delay Sharp filter sounded slightly more relaxed than the Slow filter, with a somewhat better sense of soundstage depth, even through headphones. Low Dispersion Short Delay produced a somewhat lighter-sounding piano in this recording, while Sharp emphasized the percussive noise of the piano’s keys.

Robert Levine enthusiastically reviewed Japanese percussionist Kuniko’s virtuosic performance of Steve Reich’s _Drumming_(CD, Linn CKD 385) in the March 2019 issue (p.115). A fan of both Kuniko and Reich—a live performance in London of the composer’s minimalist _Music for 18 Musicians_ remains a vivid memory 35 years later—I purchased the 24/192 “Studio Master” FLAC files. The fourth and final part of _Drumming_ features repetitive patterns on marimba and glockenspiel—the Super Slow filter emphasized the instrumental attacks, the glock sounding a touch “shiny.” Short Delay Fast gave the best balance between the leading edges of notes and the body of the tone.

I used Short Delay Fast for most of my listening, checking out the other filters when I felt the sound of a familiar track wasn’t quite what I’d expected. For classical orchestral music, I most often used Low Dispersion Short Delay.

What about DSD Remastering? When I streamed from Tidal _Music for 18 Musicians_, performed by the Steve Reich Ensemble in 1978 (16/44.1 FLAC, ECM), the complex musical threads were a little easier to unravel with the DMP Z1 transcoding the CD data to DSD128. Even a mono recording—“Please, Please, Please” from James Brown’s _20 All-Time Greatest Hits!_ (24/192 ALAC file, Polydor/Pono-Music)—sounded a touch smoother with DSD upsampling.

*Listening to music*
In a nostalgic mood, I began my serious listening by using Roon to bring up perhaps the best live album ever, Donny Hathaway’s _Live_ (24/192 FLAC, Atlantic/HDtracks). The version of John Lennon’s “Jealous Guy” on this album, with its loping rhythm, is definitive, and the combination of the DMP-Z1 and AudioQuest NightHawks presented Hathaway’s voice within the subtle club ambience to perfection. The sound was a touch too mellow—AudioQuest headphones are balanced on the dark side of neutral—so I switched to the Audeze LCD-Xes, connected with Nordost Heimdall cables, for “The Ghetto.” The tremolo’d Wurlitzer electric piano in this track’s intro floated even farther free of the audience’s soul clapping, and the Sony propelled the song’s iconic bass riff with hypnotic urgency.

The Hathaway album was released in 1972, as was another album that had a huge effect on me that year: Stevie Wonder’s _Music of My Mind_. Streaming this album’s opener, “Love Having You Around,” from Qobuz (24/96 FLAC, Motown), I was reminded that on this album Wonder plays every instrument other than guitar and, on this track, trombone, the latter courtesy of ace trombonist Art Baron. The last trombone player Duke Ellington hired, Baron has a connection with this magazine: He plays on the Jerome Harris Quintet’s _Rendezvous_(CD, Stereophile STPH013-2), which I recorded in 1998. _Rendezvous_ is out of print, but one track from it, Duke Ellington’s “The Mooche,” appears on our _Editor’s Choice_(CD, STPH016-2). Baron’s plunger-muted soloing in “The Mooche” was optimally reproduced by the Sony-Audeze-Nordost combination, with all its wah-wah rasp intact. When I’d mixed this track, I wanted to preserve the original sound’s wide dynamic range, which meant that Harris’s Taylor acoustic bass guitar is relatively low in level. Its subtle sound was clearly delineated, however, with excellent low-frequency weight.

But what about a track in which the low frequencies are big, bold, and magnificent? I cued up “#thatPower,” by will.i.am and Justin Bieber, from will.i.am’s _#willpower_(16/44.1 FLAC, Interscope). The Sony managed to hold on to this song’s subterranean excesses without making the sound bloated or boomy.

*Listening to MQA*
It was time to try some MQA-encoded music. My current favorite performance of Benjamin Britten’s _Variations on a Theme of Frank Bridge_ is by the Trondheim Soloists, on their _Reflections_ (24/44.1 MQA FLAC unfolded by the DMP-Z1 to 24/352.8, 2L 2L-125). This work for string orchestra sounded simply glorious through the Sony with all three pairs of headphones: The Audezes presented a wealth of detail in the midrange and treble; despite their lift in the lows, the AudioQuests didn’t sound overrich; and the Sennheisers sounded neutral, if a little bass-shy, compared with the other two pairs of cans. The Sony simply stepped out of the way of the music.

As I write these words, I’m listening through the Sony-Sennheiser system to Radka Toneff’s hauntingly beautiful performance of “Nature Boy,” from the 2018 Original Master Edition reissue of her _Fairytales_(24/48 MQA file unfolded to 24/192, Odin CD9561), our Recording of the Month for April 2018. I have to keep lifting my fingers from the keyboard to revel in the glory of the sound and the song: musical gold to match the DMP-Z1’s gold-plated volume control.

*An unbalanced comparison*
Until I began working exclusively from home, my constant companion on my daily commute was the PonoPlayer I’d bought after reviewing it in April 2015.5 It may seem absurd to compare the $8500 Sony with the Pono, which cost $399 when last available, but I’ve racked up more hours listening through headphones with the Pono than with any other product. With the Audeze LCD-Xes, which are more revealing than the AudioQuest NightHawks, the high frequencies in “The Mooche” had more top-octave air with the DMPZ1, letting me better hear the subtle acoustic of Blue Heaven Studios, in Salina, Kansas. At the other end of the spectrum, the double bass in James Brown’s “Please, Please, Please” had a weightier body tone through the Sony, though this recording’s rather rough mid-treble sounded a touch smoother through the Pono. A case of Authority (Sony) _vs_Acceptable (Pono).

*Conclusion*
Two high-end products with digital inputs and headphone outputs that I enjoyed for a while in my system were Ayre Acoustics’ Codex6 ($1795) and QX-5 Twenty7 ($8950), both AC-powered. Other than lacking internal storage and an integral playback app, both are broadly equivalent to Sony’s DMP-Z1. Both review samples were long ago returned to Ayre, but I have fond memories of using them with my Audeze LCD-X headphones, especially the QX-5 Twenty. When it comes to headphone sound quality, the Sony DMP-Z1 joins that distinguished company—and it’s a Walkman! Kind of.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 22, 2019)

My second Hand Sewn Leather case, and it was made with very Thick Hide of full grain 3.5mm Alcantara finishes.  It will has memory slot, and Side hooks for hooking up as a sling bag.  Any of your favorite Purses Tote will do!


----------



## purk

Awesome looking case!


----------



## skr3328

Well my Z1 is dead now. It is not charging. The charge light is always green when the battery level is low. Have to bring it to the service center tomorrow.


----------



## Whitigir

skr3328 said:


> Well my Z1 is dead now. It is not charging. The charge light is always green when the battery level is low. Have to bring it to the service center tomorrow.


What in the hell ? Did it happen all of a sudden ? That is scary


----------



## skr3328

Whitigir said:


> What in the hell ? Did it happen all of a sudden ? That is scary


Yes all of a sudden. It shows the battery is fully charged (green light ) and stopped charging while on the screen the battery lever is low and keep dropping/


----------



## Whitigir

skr3328 said:


> Yes all of a sudden. It shows the battery is fully charged (green light ) and stopped charging while on the screen the battery lever is low and keep dropping/


Try a reset with the power button ? Turn off the device, and unplug the charger.  Wait for 5 minutes and turn it back on ?


----------



## skr3328

Whitigir said:


> Try a reset with the power button ? Turn off the device, and unplug the charger.  Wait for 5 minutes and turn it back on ?


I tried:
Reset
Reset to factory default setting
Firmware update 

But no luck my friend. I think there could be 2 possible problem:

Charging malfunction or battery level display error.


----------



## Whitigir

skr3328 said:


> I tried:
> Reset
> Reset to factory default setting
> Firmware update
> ...



That is so sad to hear.  The battery display errors usually is fixed when the player is turned off and on again.  Could be the charging malfunctioned


----------



## skr3328

Whitigir said:


> That is so sad to hear.  The battery display errors usually is fixed when the player is turned off and on again.  Could be the charging malfunctioned


Went to the service center today. it was a tiny office and the staff was super unprofessional. The only engineer was busy at repairing toilets and he asked a young girl from the reception to examine my unit.


----------



## TSAVJason

I feel for you but you know, people need toilets  I’m sorry to laugh and sincerely hope it all works out for you but the toilet part of the story busted me up.


----------



## purk

Hopefully it was more of a pleasure than a pain kind of a visit.


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> Hopefully it was more of a pleasure than a pain kind of a visit.



Depends if you were constipated ? ( Sorry ! ) It's really bad luck, having the unit go faulty, so soon !!


----------



## Whitigir

It made me laugh, but I gotta say that every engineer who knows to work on more than his field is a good engineer .  So you are in good hands


----------



## purk

Rob49 said:


> Depends if you were constipated ? ( Sorry ! ) It's really bad luck, having the unit go faulty, so soon !!




I may made a joke but it is best for it to happen early on and the unit still under warranty.  The worst thing to have is to have problems when the warranty period has already expired.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> I may made a joke but it is best for it to happen early on and the unit still under warranty.  The worst thing to have is to have problems when the warranty period has already expired.


It still wouldn’t cost any arm or leg to have it fixed 

The worse thing is to ship it in, then wait for the fix, and to have it ship back out, and that in my opinion would be pretty horrible

So, it better be alive and kicking like a zombie for the price that it cost


----------



## TSAVJason

Whitigir said:


> It still wouldn’t cost any arm or leg to have it fixed
> 
> The worse thing is to ship it in, then wait for the fix, and to have it ship back out, and that in my opinion would be pretty horrible
> 
> So, it better be alive and kicking like a zombie for the price that it cost



Stuff breaks! It happens. It’s unfortunate but it does. Suffice it to say that explains the goal of a diligent manufacturer to keep failures under 3%. Sony has kept a pretty good record in this respect. Still when it happens it is a pain in the a**


----------



## skr3328

TSAVJason said:


> Stuff breaks! It happens. It’s unfortunate but it does. Suffice it to say that explains the goal of a diligent manufacturer to keep failures under 3%. Sony has kept a pretty good record in this respect. Still when it happens it is a pain in the a**


Yes it is like a red hot rod in my a** and I can still smell the fragrance of melting fat.


----------



## DaYooper

Sweet talker.


----------



## TSAVJason

skr3328 said:


> Yes it is like a red hot rod in my a** and I can still smell the fragrance of melting fat.



Dude that is fully disgusting


----------



## Peter Hyatt

https://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-dmp-z1-digital-music-player


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I have iPad MIni connected to DMP via Nordost cable for all the three streaming services (TIDAL, Qobuz, AppleMusic). A nice little setup.


----------



## purk

Low or High Gain setting on the DMP-Z1 and why?

I actually prefer a Low Gain setting.  With my HD800, I'm getting a cleaner bass line with slightly more effortless presentation.  What do you guys think?  I'm getting close to 500 hours on mine.


----------



## Whitigir

Low gain on battery and high-gain on LPS


----------



## raypin

Mm...should be covered by warranty. Over the past 3 years at no cost to me....Focal Utopia....replaced twice by manufacturer. Chord DAVE repaired by manufacturer (took awhile but still). I have no doubt that Sony will take care of any problem (on mine). I m not worried.


----------



## Whitigir

raypin said:


> Mm...should be covered by warranty. Over the past 3 years at no cost to me....Focal Utopia....replaced twice by manufacturer. Chord DAVE repaired by manufacturer (took awhile but still). I have no doubt that Sony will take care of any problem (on mine). I m not worried.


Is there any problems on your unit ?


----------



## raypin

Mm...knock on wood, not a single issue thus far. 6 months of light use.....


----------



## HiFiGuy528

LO gain for me. Rarely need to go HI gain. 

I use mine for 14+ hrs. a day. Zero issues so far, one month in.


----------



## TSAVJason

HiFiGuy528 said:


> LO gain for me. Rarely need to go HI gain.
> 
> I use mine for 14+ hrs. a day. Zero issues so far, one month in.



No wonder you don’t answer the phone during Woo working hours! You’re buried in your dmp.....you fan boy you


----------



## HiFiGuy528

TSAVJason said:


> No wonder you don’t answer the phone during Woo working hours! You’re buried in your dmp.....you fan boy you



No... I have caller ID.


----------



## raypin (Aug 12, 2019)

Mm...been backreading this thread looking for a post.....Funny how once supercritical folks last year are now owners of the DMP Z1. What changed your mind? 

Btt, what are your favorite pairings and why?


----------



## Whitigir

raypin said:


> Mm...been backreading this thread looking for a post.....Funny how once supercritical folks last year are now owners of the DMP Z1. What changed your mind?
> 
> Btt, what are your favorite pairings and why?


What changed my mind was already posted in details.  My favorite pairing is the HD800S with DMP and a good OCC copper cables.


----------



## purk (Aug 12, 2019)

raypin said:


> Mm...been backreading this thread looking for a post.....Funny how once supercritical folks last year are now owners of the DMP Z1. What changed your mind?
> 
> Btt, what are your favorite pairings and why?



I am one of those guys and really do really enjoy the Z1 now.  Still it doesn’t equal or surpass my ECP L3 and DSHA-4/Ravenswood with Matrix X-Sabre or my Audio-Technica HA-5050h in term of sound quality alone.  What is missing from the Z1 is the sense of scale in both width and depth compared to those very best amplifiers.  Still it sounds better than I thought and the all-in-one solution in a very fine and transportable package is  very appealing to me.  Mine has over 650 hours it so it should already completed the burn in process.  In a nutshell ....I am and always be a Sony fanboy despite my harsh comments from time to time.  I am looking forward to upgrade its power supply and make it sounds even better.


----------



## darkzeros88

I just bought the Dmp-Z1 and very much enjoying the music 

My storage is limited however and am thinking to invest in high quality micro SD card. Any recommendations?


----------



## raypin (Aug 13, 2019)

_Mm...my micro SD slots are empty. On-board storage is 172 GB still free. Over the years, I ve relied on Sandisk for DAP memory cards on my Astells, Sony, iBasso, Cayin etc. Never had any problems. _


----------



## purk

I would wait a month or so and buy a Micron 1Tb which is supposed to be significantly cheaper than the Sandisk 1 TB.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

pro tip:

Anyone using external microSD card should use this tool to format before using it in DMP or other devices.

https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter/


----------



## bmichels

dead thread already ?     No more interest for this baby ?  I was expecting more listening impressions after all those canJams...


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> dead thread already ?     No more interest for this baby ?  I was expecting more listening impressions after all those canJams...


It isn’t cheap to begin with.  What do u need to know?  I don’t mind answer a question or two.  No time for a proper review.


----------



## tom2517

purk said:


> It isn’t cheap to begin with.  What do u need to know?  I don’t mind answer a question or two.  No time for a proper review.



This is a terrible thread, was looking for an excuse not to buy it but now I’m so tempted and my local Sony retailer has one in stock. Is it a waste of money if I am just going to run Tidal from iPhone/iPad to Z1 and LCD-i4/IER-Z1?


----------



## purk (Aug 27, 2019)

tom2517 said:


> This is a terrible thread, was looking for an excuse not to buy it but now I’m so tempted and my local Sony retailer has one in stock. Is it a waste of money if I am just going to run Tidal from iPhone/iPad to Z1 and LCD-i4/IER-Z1?



Really not but the Z1 is at its very best playing hirez audio especially DSD materials.  The sound is really refined but it doesn’t best my excellent sounding ECP audio Ravenswood and the Matrix X-Sabre system.  It is within a striking distance sound wise for a fraction of the size though.  The ECP Ravenswood is the best sounding solid state head amp that I have ever heard.  The Z1 just doesn’t quite have the sense of scale especially in term of soundstage width when compared to the very best amplifier out there.  A more powerful amp also slam a little harder, but this can be further improve with a better power supply.


----------



## tom2517

purk said:


> Really not but the Z1 is at its very best playing hirez audio especially DSD materials.  The sound is really refined but it doesn’t best my excellent sounding ECP audio Ravenswood and the Matrix X-Sabre system.  It is within a striking distance sound wise for a fraction of the size though.  The ECP Ravenswood is the best sounding solid state head amp that I have ever heard.  The Z1 just doesn’t quite have the sense of scale especially in term of soundstage width when compared to the very best amplifier out there.



Yeah I have read through this thread and I know Z1 won’t best a real home system, but it’s in a nice neat little package (if you can call it little) and can easily move around the house since it’s also battery powered. 

I am over high rez materials, don’t want to deal with them, just want to keep it simple with Tidal and that’s it. Any recommendation for USB cables? Thanks!


----------



## purk

tom2517 said:


> Yeah I have read through this thread and I know Z1 won’t best a real home system, but it’s in a nice neat little package (if you can call it little) and can easily move around the house since it’s also battery powered.
> 
> I am over high rez materials, don’t want to deal with them, just want to keep it simple with Tidal and that’s it. Any recommendation for USB cables? Thanks!



Try the Moon audio silver dragon first.  Also, the Z1 sounds best with music store locally.  It’s a great device especially if you want something transportable.


----------



## tom2517

purk said:


> Try the Moon audio silver dragon first.  Also, the Z1 sounds best with music store locally.  It’s a great device especially if you want something transportable.



Thanks!


----------



## Whitigir

Just my 2 cents here.

Tidal and online stream apps like even Qoobuz or so are using their own algorithms.  The DMP-Z1 has the capable to expose those errors and bad quality from those 3rd party algorithms, regardless of what you are streaming, be it 192Khz or 44.1.  If you have purchased a DMP-Z1 and the Z1R IER, then you should do yourself a favor.  Grab an album on Tidal, from the same studio that you can find from your local bookstores or Audio stores, rip them into WAV or FLAC, and compare between Bluetooth streaming into DMP vs the one you rip out from your own CD.  The differences is very easy to observe with what you have.


----------



## tumpux

Wait bluetooth streaming?
Isnt it introducing another compression scheme..


----------



## tom2517

Whitigir said:


> Just my 2 cents here.
> 
> Tidal and online stream apps like even Qoobuz or so are using their own algorithms.  The DMP-Z1 has the capable to expose those errors and bad quality from those 3rd party algorithms, regardless of what you are streaming, be it 192Khz or 44.1.  If you have purchased a DMP-Z1 and the Z1R IER, then you should do yourself a favor.  Grab an album on Tidal, from the same studio that you can find from your local bookstores or Audio stores, rip them into WAV or FLAC, and compare between Bluetooth streaming into DMP vs the one you rip out from your own CD.  The differences is very easy to observe with what you have.



Understood but the day of ripping CDs is over for me. Been there done that now I just want convenience.......and it’s also why I am interested in the Z1 instead of spending the money on a home system.


----------



## Whitigir

tom2517 said:


> Understood but the day of ripping CDs is over for me. Been there done that now I just want convenience.......and it’s also why I am interested in the Z1 instead of spending the money on a home system.


For Bluetooth and wireless streaming, the DMP-Z1 is an overkill.  You only need SP1000, or other high-end Android DAPs and you are gold.  But that is from how I understand and experiences with


----------



## purk (Aug 27, 2019)

tom2517 said:


> Understood but the day of ripping CDs is over for me. Been there done that now I just want convenience.......and it’s also why I am interested in the Z1 instead of spending the money on a home system.



Can you visit a Sony store and listen to it first?  Make more sense to me instead of buying it blind.  What are you trying to drive?  I'm sure that the DMP-Z1 will produce great sound from BT and Tidal streaming just don't expect it to sound as good as locally stored files.  Even with LDAC, it is less than red book CD quality.

If you don’t mind the price tag then go for it.


----------



## tom2517

Hello, no I’m not going to do BT, that makes no sense, might as well just listen out of the iPad, I’m going to use USB C. 

And yes I’m going to find a demo unit to try.


----------



## nanaholic

tom2517 said:


> Understood but the day of ripping CDs is over for me. Been there done that now I just want convenience.......and it’s also why I am interested in the Z1 instead of spending the money on a home system.



I don't know why you want the DMP-Z1 then.

If you want a streamer that runs on battery, just get a Chord Hugo 2 connected to an iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch. The DMP-Z1 has a screen and internal storage and two expansion ports because it is a designed to play files from memory, not streaming.


----------



## tom2517

nanaholic said:


> I don't know why you want the DMP-Z1 then.
> 
> If you want a streamer that runs on battery, just get a Chord Hugo 2 connected to an iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch. The DMP-Z1 has a screen and internal storage and two expansion ports because it is a designed to play files from memory, not streaming.



Oh I definitely want it, the question is do I need it....


----------



## nanaholic

tom2517 said:


> Oh I definitely want it, the question is do I need it....



For use with streaming? No, definitely not.


----------



## raypin (Aug 28, 2019)

Mm...how do you guys do wired connection? What interconnects do you use with the DMP? Best method? Feedback needed. Tia.


----------



## raymogi

raypin said:


> Mm...how do you guys do wired connection? What interconnects do you use with the DMP? Best method? Feedback needed. Tia.



I use this one https://www.kimber.com/products/KSUSB-CU.

USB C to USB C (OTG) so I can use it with my iPad Pro as well.


----------



## tom2517

raymogi said:


> I use this one https://www.kimber.com/products/KSUSB-CU.
> 
> USB C to USB C (OTG) so I can use it with my iPad Pro as well.



Do you use stream service when use with iPad? What do you think?


----------



## raymogi

tom2517 said:


> Do you use stream service when use with iPad? What do you think?



Yeah I use Tidal. Of course locally stored music will always sound better, but the benefit of exploring new music when using Tidal is worth it.


----------



## Whitigir

There is new firmware to improve Bluetooth connectivity and latency from Sony
https://www.sony.com/electronics/su...rs-dmp-series/dmp-z1/downloads/00016310#about


----------



## raymogi

Whitigir said:


> There is new firmware to improve Bluetooth connectivity and latency from Sony
> https://www.sony.com/electronics/su...rs-dmp-series/dmp-z1/downloads/00016310#about



Of course I have to try it with Youtube right away.

There is now NO LAG when using USB DAC. 

With BT, I can notice a SUPER TINY bit of lag still.


----------



## Whitigir

I do hear bigger soundstage and tighter, faster low-mid bass textures from my DMP on my new firmware. That is from memory, and this soundstage which is already crazy just got crazier


----------



## raypin

Mm....do you guys utilize the 10 band EQ of the DMP? What’s your experience?


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> I do hear bigger soundstage and tighter, faster low-mid bass textures from my DMP on my new firmware. That is from memory, and this soundstage which is already crazy just got crazier



Mm....What headphone do you use with the Z1 ?


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> Mm....What headphone do you use with the Z1 ?


Hd800s, ier-M9 and Z1R.  Stax sr009 and sr009s


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> Hd800s, ier-M9 and Z1R.  Stax sr009 and sr009s



Thanks for your reply. 

I know we have quite similar taste:  I have SR009 and just ordered 009s for my BHSE

For my A&K SP1000 (and I know soon my Sony DMP-Z1.... resistance is futile  I am désesperatly looking for the best possible  closed back headphone ( for good isolation) and I wonder if the new ZMF Verite C could not be even better ( Sound quality and Isolation wise) than the Sony Z1R ?   

Unfortunatly this year I could not make it to CanJam London to *listen to the ZMF Verite Closed and compare it to the Sony Z1R*.   

Any thought on this ?


----------



## tom2517

bmichels said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> I know we have quite similar taste:  I have SR009 and just ordered 009s for my BHSE
> 
> ...


Lol resistance is futile, I’m still trying to resist....


----------



## bmichels

tom2517 said:


> Lol resistance is futile, I’m still trying to resist....



I use the excuse that the Z1 do not offer Wifi for TIDAL streaming and an iPad App to resist.   

If the Z1 had TIDAL and iPad like my Aurender’s Conductor App does, I will already be on the dark side of the force.


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> I know we have quite similar taste:  I have SR009 and just ordered 009s for my BHSE
> 
> ...



I dont like the MDR Z1R with DMP Z1 but I do have IER Z1R with DMP Z1


----------



## raypin (Aug 31, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> I dont like the MDR Z1R with DMP Z1 but I do have IER Z1R with DMP Z1



Mmm....came to the same conclusion: Z1 and Z1R = weak synergy. That is why I was asking earlier about utilizing the DMP Z1 10 band equalizer (I very rarely use EQ) but in this case, I do not have any choice.

Fave is still Focal and Z1 for open.

Looking at the Verite C, Denon D9200 and Focal Stellia as possible partners for the Z1 in the closed category.


----------



## purk

I really like the D9200.  It sounds great and more balanced sounding than the MdR-Z1R.  The Stella should also do very well.  The HD800s is an excellent match to the Z1 though.


----------



## bmichels

I heard 


purk said:


> I really like the D9200.  It sounds great and more balanced sounding than the MdR-Z1R.  The Stella should also do very well.  The HD800s is an excellent match to the Z1 though.



I heard very good things about the sound quality of the D9200, but... also I understood  that it does not isolante so Well.   Is this correct ?  

Very Good isolation is for me the key reason to purchase a closed headphone ! 

This is why I am very interested in the ZMF vérité closed and look forward listening it if possible or reading listening comparaison against the Stella or other TOL closed headphones.


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 1, 2019)

DMP Z1 and the IER Z1R is something else to be hold !!!! That dynamic, soundstage in a personal package !!!

The pumping bass, dynamic, control, resolutions is crazy.  I cant stop using this combination


 

Especially with the Rock genres !!!! I found my new Fav.  Thanks @nc8000


----------



## raymogi (Sep 1, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> DMP Z1 and the IER Z1R is something else to be hold !!!! That dynamic, soundstage in a personal package !!!
> 
> The pumping bass, dynamic, control, resolutions is crazy.  I cant stop using this combination
> 
> ...



I finally dusted off my IER as well last night. Haven't been using it for the last 2 months because I've been alternating between my U18t and Fourte Noir.

Since there's a new fw update I thought why not.

OMG. New found respect for the IER.

I'm a big cable believer so the two 64 Audio IEMs that I have is equipped with some of the best cables out there, but the IER with the stock balanced cable (I return to stock cable because it gives me the best fit of the IEM) held up with the two juggernauts.

I think I listen to music 3-4 hours straight and didn't notice the time at all. It's so magical. It's experience like this that I crave.


----------



## gsiu33

Anyone have the 1.01 firmware?

I would try to upgrade to 1.02 but would like to fallback to 1.01 in case don’t like the signature.

Thanks


----------



## Redcarmoose

Whitigir said:


> DMP Z1 and the IER Z1R is something else to be hold !!!! That dynamic, soundstage in a personal package !!!
> 
> The pumping bass, dynamic, control, resolutions is crazy.  I cant stop using this combination
> 
> ...





Jmop said:


> I just read up on the 5 vs 6. The 6 seems to prevail in sound. As long as the battery life can last throughout a day I’m good. Not sure about sound, but the main selling point of the 7 is probably gaming. And probably to have a 7th gen Touch since there’s a 7th gen Nano lol.



Do you like the TA and MDR combo better than the DMP-Z1/MDR combo?


----------



## tom2517

bmichels said:


> I use the excuse that the Z1 do not offer Wifi for TIDAL streaming and an iPad App to resist.
> 
> If the Z1 had TIDAL and iPad like my Aurender’s Conductor App does, I will already be on the dark side of the force.


Looks like I gave in first, I have placed my order and it will arrive in two days.


----------



## tom2517 (Sep 5, 2019)

It’s here!


----------



## bmichels

So... you did surender !


----------



## purk

The nw-ZX500 into DMP-Z1 should allow addition of a hires streaming right?


----------



## Sp12er3

Anyone here interested in making this picture a reality in their home?


----------



## purk

Not me....


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> I would wait a month or so and buy a Micron 1Tb which is supposed to be significantly cheaper than the Sandisk 1 TB.



Yeah but cheaper isn’t always as good or better


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> Not me....



If I’m going to listen to speakers it’s not going to be those but I bet they sound decent for what they are


----------



## Sp12er3

For €7000 they better be.. At least for their intended listening space.


----------



## TSAVJason

Sp12er3 said:


> For €7000 they better be.. At least for their intended listening space.



Crazy ...right?


----------



## Sp12er3 (Sep 6, 2019)

Looking at high end speaker price these days... Maybe.... not so much?
Will you be receiving them for demo in TSAV, Jason?


----------



## tom2517

Maybe it’s the Sony synergy, or I don’t have balanced cable for the LCD-i4, or maybe it’s all just in my head, but without the DMP Z1 I like the LCD-i4 over the IER-Z1R (both connected directly to iPhone), but with the DMP Z1, I like the IER better, much better actually.


----------



## tom2517

I have noticed a problem with my USB C to USB C connection between my iPad and Z1. While the Z1 will always recognize the iPad as a storage device, but when I enabled USB DAC function, I can see the music is playing on the iPad but no sound from the DMP, the L/R channel not moving either. I either have to reattach the cable, restart the DMP, or restart the Tidal app, or combination of all the above until the music will somehow start to play through the DMP. Once it is through the connection will not drop though, until the next time when I use the player again. 

Is it some kind of a SW glitch? I hope there is not something wrong with my USB C port. I have used both Apple cable and third part cable and they both exhibited same symptoms.


----------



## purk

tom2517 said:


> I have noticed a problem with my USB C to USB C connection between my iPad and Z1. While the Z1 will always recognize the iPad as a storage device, but when I enabled USB DAC function, I can see the music is playing on the iPad but no sound from the DMP, the L/R channel not moving either. I either have to reattach the cable, restart the DMP, or restart the Tidal app, or combination of all the above until the music will somehow start to play through the DMP. Once it is through the connection will not drop though, until the next time when I use the player again.
> 
> Is it some kind of a SW glitch? I hope there is not something wrong with my USB C port. I have used both Apple cable and third part cable and they both exhibited same symptoms.



There should be a setting the DMP menu to check “not charging the device while connecting or so”.  It should work if u check that box.


----------



## Whitigir

Does IPad need Camera Kit to enable digital out ? I know my older iPad Pro has a lightning jack, and I needed camera kit


----------



## LegionWolf

Love the people hating on it that don't have it.

It sounds AMAZING-- the volume knob is a wonder to turn.


----------



## bmichels (Sep 6, 2019)

I don't think anybody hate the Z1.... *we just wished ithe Z1 had WiFi Streaming integrated, like the latest Sony nw-ZX500 Walkman (finaly) does*, and also an iPAD app to drive it's playback, like AK's Connect or Aurender's conductor App..


----------



## purk

LegionWolf said:


> Love the people hating on it that don't have it.
> 
> It sounds AMAZING-- the volume knob is a wonder to turn.



Yes, depending on the frame of reference though.  As a whole package it is quite amazing.  Some people may have heard better for less money hence some hating haha.


----------



## Whitigir

Turning the volume knob is better than turning tits!!


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> Turning the volume knob is better than turning tits!!


Keep it private brother.  Your significant other may feel bad otherwise.


----------



## LegionWolf

I agree being able to stream direct would be nice. But it’s one cable from a phone and then you can control playback from a smart watch if wanted 

And didn’t mean to come off too harsh. But the internet does like to dog pile on the negative - I need to remember this isn’t YouTube comments though. 

But this thing is sooo sweet to the ears with ier z1r and mdr z1r 

Can make me feel like Michael is taking ME back to Neverland ranch for a weekend I’ll do a documentary on when listening to Thriller Album in DSD it’s so good


----------



## LegionWolf

Whitigir said:


> Turning the volume knob is better than turning tits!!


And you’re still allowed to rightfully call it your property 

+2 up on tits


----------



## Whitigir

Yes, Thriller!! I am a big Fan!!


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> Keep it private brother.  Your significant other may feel bad otherwise.



You guys are busting me up with this hahahahaha


----------



## XERO1




----------



## LegionWolf




----------



## LegionWolf

XERO1 said:


>



Hilarious


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> Yes, Thriller!! I am a big Fan!!


 Thrilling knob turning individual!


----------



## LegionWolf

So I had to comb thru music to ensure only good stuff got onto DMP 

Now the question. What’s best way to transfer playlist to DMP? 

I’ve been using Sony software on PC to transfer   

Have used soundiiz but no format seemed right for Sony ...


----------



## tom2517

purk said:


> There should be a setting the DMP menu to check “not charging the device while connecting or so”.  It should work if u check that box.


 
Cant find this setting you are talking about but it's ok, the connection will always work after a few tries, and since the DMP always recognize it as a mass storage device, I will assume the USB port is fine, probably just some SW glitches.


----------



## Sp12er3

purk said:


> There should be a setting the DMP menu to check “not charging the device while connecting or so”.  It should work if u check that box.


https://helpguide.sony.net/dmp/dmpz1/v1/en/contents/TP0001886621.html
Is it this setting?


----------



## tom2517

LegionWolf said:


> And you’re still allowed to rightfully call it your property
> 
> +2 up on tits



That knob is really something, I love turning it too.


----------



## nanaholic

LegionWolf said:


> So I had to comb thru music to ensure only good stuff got onto DMP
> 
> Now the question. What’s best way to transfer playlist to DMP?
> 
> ...


 
MusicBee should work. 
Place m3u playlist in the Music directory.


----------



## bmichels

purk said:


> The nw-ZX500 into DMP-Z1 should allow addition of a hires streaming right?





tom2517 said:


> That knob is really something, I love turning it too.



Is it possible to just buy the knob ?


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 7, 2019)

bmichels said:


> Is it possible to just buy the knob ?


It isn’t the knob that turning so well....it is the physical built of the RK50.  However, Sony customized it with Sony specific designs, and so they are calling it RK50*1*.

The knob is simply screwed onto the connecting shaft of the attenuators which by itself is turning so smooth and nice.  As I mentioned, the RK50 by ALPs is very revered in attenuators for many audiophiles equipments.  In my own experiences, I have it built on into my KG-T2 for my Stax system, and I know how it sound in comparison to other stepped attenuators I had built on the other amps such as Carbon or Grounded Grid. The BHSE Amps also have the RK50 as an optional upgrade

Now, if you asked, could you buy the attenuators alone for that “tits turning sensation”? _*yes you can, just buy RK50, and any knobs.....only that it cost $1000+ per unit.  *_*The DMP-Z1* is expensive for many reasons.  After all the reasons are comprehended, the DMP-Z1 is actually cheap for the price


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> It isn’t the knob that turning so well....it is the physical built of the RK50.  However, Sony customized it with Sony specific designs, and so they are calling it RK50*1*.
> 
> The knob is simply screwed onto the connecting shaft of the attenuators which by itself is turning so smooth and nice.  As I mentioned, the RK50 by ALPs is very revered in attenuators for many audiophiles equipments.  In my own experiences, I have it built on into my KG-T2 for my Stax system, and I know how it sound in comparison to other stepped attenuators I had built on the other amps such as Carbon or Grounded Grid. The BHSE and GSX Amps also have the RK50 as an optional upgrade
> 
> Now, if you asked, could you buy the attenuators alone for that “tits turning sensation”, _*yes you can, just buy RK50, and any knobs.....only that it cost $1000+ per unit.  *_*The DMP-Z1* is expensive for many reasons.  After all the reasons are comprehended, the DMP-Z1 is actually cheap for the price


True on all counts beside the GSX.


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> It isn’t the knob that turning so well....it is the physical built of the RK50.  However, Sony customized it with Sony specific designs, and so they are calling it RK50*1*.
> 
> The knob is simply screwed onto the connecting shaft of the attenuators which by itself is turning so smooth and nice.  As I mentioned, the RK50 by ALPs is very revered in attenuators for many audiophiles equipments.  In my own experiences, I have it built on into my KG-T2 for my Stax system, and I know how it sound in comparison to other stepped attenuators I had built on the other amps such as Carbon or Grounded Grid. The BHSE Amps also have the RK50 as an optional upgrade
> 
> Now, if you asked, could you buy the attenuators alone for that “tits turning sensation”? _*yes you can, just buy RK50, and any knobs.....only that it cost $1000+ per unit.  *_*The DMP-Z1* is expensive for many reasons.  After all the reasons are comprehended, the DMP-Z1 is actually cheap for the price



I have the RK50 option in my BHSE, so I can understand what you mean


----------



## skr3328

40 days after sent the DMP to service centers the unit still not returned. Called Sony China and they told me this is the first unit sent to service, no spare parts at the moment. Don’t know how long I have to wait.


----------



## Whitigir

skr3328 said:


> 40 days after sent the DMP to service centers the unit still not returned. Called Sony China and they told me this is the first unit sent to service, no spare parts at the moment. Don’t know how long I have to wait.


Wow man!!! I would be furious


----------



## meomap

skr3328 said:


> 40 days after sent the DMP to service centers the unit still not returned. Called Sony China and they told me this is the first unit sent to service, no spare parts at the moment. Don’t know how long I have to wait.


Is the engineer at that site still cleaning the bathroom? Or fixing the bathroom now that no time to search or call Sony for parts asap.
You should contact dealer over there for a refund or something.
I would a review on Sony Web and let them know the situation then their people will contact China asap.
Good luck to you.


----------



## Whitigir

meomap said:


> Is the engineer at that site still cleaning the bathroom? Or fixing the bathroom now that no time to search or call Sony for parts asap.
> You should contact dealer over there for a refund or something.
> I would a review on Sony Web and let them know the situation then their people will contact China asap.
> Good luck to you.



I think his situation is a bit unfortunate. 

1/ it is a used unit, so it only has factory warranty ...of which...Sony will not have parts available as they claimed

2/ he didnt buy it new from a dealer, so I dont think they could replace for him ? Unless he contacted the guy he bought from and ask for helps


----------



## LegionWolf

So I’m curious before purchasing - has anyone tested 1TB micro SD cards?


----------



## purk

Yes, I did. My Sandisk 1TB works just fine.


----------



## skr3328

meomap said:


> Is the engineer at that site still cleaning the bathroom? Or fixing the bathroom now that no time to search or call Sony for parts asap.
> You should contact dealer over there for a refund or something.
> I would a review on Sony Web and let them know the situation then their people will contact China asap.
> Good luck to you.


Thank you for being concerned. The local service center sent the unit to the Sony China headquarters in ShangHai and Now they are waiting for spare parts from Japan. In China refund only happens in 7 days after purchasing so not an option.


----------



## skr3328

Whitigir said:


> I think his situation is a bit unfortunate.
> 
> 1/ it is a used unit, so it only has factory warranty ...of which...Sony will not have parts available as they claimed
> 
> 2/ he didnt buy it new from a dealer, so I dont think they could replace for him ? Unless he contacted the guy he bought from and ask for helps


Thank god I still have the warranty. As the told me this is the first unit sent to service so I think there are some procedures need to go through.There were only ten or twenty units sold in China so I bet Sony China never had a service plan for it.


----------



## tom2517

skr3328 said:


> Thank god I still have the warranty. As the told me this is the first unit sent to service so I think there are some procedures need to go through.There were only ten or twenty units sold in China so I bet Sony China never had a service plan for it.



Yeah I bet they didn’t envision a problem with their unit would occur so soon....


----------



## LegionWolf (Sep 8, 2019)

So this is coming :

VanNuys VD984 for SONY DMP-Z1 One Shoulder Bag Carrying  Case 340 215 80mm Black

You know for when I’m jogging rock climbing — hurdles...


----------



## tom2517

LegionWolf said:


> So this is coming :
> 
> VanNuys VD984 for SONY DMP-Z1 One Shoulder Bag Carrying  Case 340 215 80mm Black
> 
> You know for when I’m jogging rock climbing — hurdles...



Looks well designed but no, for me the DMP Z1 is something I will carry between different rooms in my house, or to office, this is too hardcore.


----------



## LegionWolf

tom2517 said:


> Looks well designed but no, for me the DMP Z1 is something I will carry between different rooms in my house, or to office, this is too hardcore.


Maybe some lite MotoCross - you know- typical scenarios


----------



## nanaholic

tom2517 said:


> Looks well designed but no, for me the DMP Z1 is something I will carry between different rooms in my house, or to office, this is too hardcore.



I know for a fact that one of the Sony engineer Sato-san uses this case to carry his Z1 to the office everyday.


----------



## LegionWolf




----------



## purk

nanaholic said:


> I know for a fact that one of the Sony engineer Sato-san uses this case to carry his Z1 to the office everyday.


He should have one at home and another at the office.


----------



## LegionWolf

Anyone else like the Stellia with dmp-z1 ( or I guess any dap/dac/amp) over the mdr z1r ?

Getting curious about moving outside the signature series but keeping similar (non just reference, but fun) sound/ making even better


----------



## ruthieandjohn

LegionWolf said:


> Anyone else like the Stellia with dmp-z1 ( or I guess any dap/dac/amp) over the mdr z1r ?
> 
> Getting curious about moving outside the signature series but keeping similar (non just reference, but fun) sound/ making even better


Me, Me, ME (raising and flapping hand so vigorously as to fall out of chair)!

I had the privilege of trying out both the Focal Stellia and the Sony MDR-Z1R of @Wooglish on his Sony DMP-Z1 at last Saturday’s Seattle headphone meet.   It immediately cured my aspiration to get a Z1R (and replaced it with a compulsion to get an even-more-expensive Stellia!)


----------



## LegionWolf

ruthieandjohn said:


> Me, Me, ME (raising and flapping hand so vigorously as to fall out of chair)!
> 
> I had the privilege of trying out both the Focal Stellia and the Sony MDR-Z1R of @Wooglish on his Sony DMP-Z1 at last Saturday’s Seattle headphone meet.   It immediately cured my aspiration to get a Z1R (and replaced it with a compulsion to get an even-more-expensive Stellia!)



welll shhhiiiiiii

I might have to have both now ....


----------



## bmichels

LegionWolf said:


> Anyone else like the Stellia with dmp-z1 ( or I guess any dap/dac/amp) over the mdr z1r ?
> 
> Getting curious about moving outside the signature series but keeping similar (non just reference, but fun) sound/ making even better



May be ... *ZMF Verite Closed + DMP Z1 > Stellia + DMP Z1 ? *


----------



## LegionWolf

Not out -- who knows... 

Stellia  apparently leading


----------



## LegionWolf

ruthieandjohn said:


> Me, Me, ME (raising and flapping hand so vigorously as to fall out of chair)!
> 
> I had the privilege of trying out both the Focal Stellia and the Sony MDR-Z1R of @Wooglish on his Sony DMP-Z1 at last Saturday’s Seattle headphone meet.   It immediately cured my aspiration to get a Z1R (and replaced it with a compulsion to get an even-more-expensive Stellia!)



Anddddd ya. Took all of about an hour. Have stellia and adapter for xlr balanced plug to 4.4mm ordered:
Delivery Estimate

Monday, September 16, 2019 by 9pm
Gotta get most outa this z1


----------



## purk

LegionWolf said:


> Anddddd ya. Took all of about an hour. Have stellia and adapter for xlr balanced plug to 4.4mm ordered:
> Delivery Estimate
> 
> Monday, September 16, 2019 by 9pm
> Gotta get most outa this z1



I think you will love it.  The Stellia matches quite well with the Z1.  Don’t expect Z1R sense of scale and space though.


----------



## LegionWolf

purk said:


> I think you will love it.  The Stellia matches quite well with the Z1.  Don’t expect Z1R sense of scale and space though.



Looking at reviews and looks like gonna. E hard not to like with z1 or wm1z

Or soon to be had ak sp2000cu....

This site is a gateway drug...


----------



## ruthieandjohn

LegionWolf said:


> Anddddd ya. Took all of about an hour. Have stellia and adapter for xlr balanced plug to 4.4mm ordered:
> Delivery Estimate
> 
> Monday, September 16, 2019 by 9pm
> Gotta get most outa this z1


In addition to me, wooglish, whose Stellia, DMP-Z1, and MDR-Z1R I tried, also preferred the Stellia to the Z1R.


----------



## raymogi

If only the Stellia is black... I kinda hate that brownish color.

I, too, am looking for another headphone for the Z1. Currently have Z1R and Empyrean (both with Kimber Axios).

My option is between Diana Phi (with Superconductor cable), Stellia or Verite Closed.

Next week I will have the chance to audition all 3, but I don't think the store have Z1 to audition with and there is no way I'm bringing mine... too lazy


----------



## LegionWolf

raymogi said:


> If only the Stellia is black... I kinda hate that brownish color.
> 
> I, too, am looking for another headphone for the Z1. Currently have Z1R and Empyrean (both with Kimber Axios).
> 
> ...



Gotta get the pack I linked earlier and take with you!


----------



## raymogi

LegionWolf said:


> Gotta get the pack I linked earlier and take with you!









The store is out of the country. I can't imagine taking this baby through the airport again, pass security etc.


----------



## LegionWolf

So pretty! And ya I wouldn’t take through airport either


And jealous. Gotta wait til October for my pack ...


----------



## raymogi

LegionWolf said:


> So pretty! And ya I wouldn’t take through airport either
> 
> 
> And jealous. Gotta wait til October for my pack ...



Yep. I waited one looooong month for it as well. But this case is worth it. I can take it to my bedroom and bathroom now!


----------



## bmichels

raymogi said:


> If only the Stellia is black... I kinda hate that brownish color.
> 
> I, too, am looking for another headphone for the Z1. Currently have Z1R and Empyrean (both with Kimber Axios).
> 
> ...



We will be very interested to hear your comparaison between the Diana Phi and the Verite Closed.   Booth are on my list...


----------



## LegionWolf

purk said:


> I think you will love it.  The Stellia matches quite well with the Z1.  Don’t expect Z1R sense of scale and space though.



Ya with size of z1r they can produce more open back space -  but I can also see headphones out corner of eye lol - like wearing softballs on ear (I still love don’t get me wrong ...)

But will be nice to have little more streamlined too


----------



## LegionWolf

And holy freaking moly ... this is nuts ... and I’ve spent what I thought was crazy amount on cable. This is 1.5x stellia’s!

AXIOS Cu
https://www.kimber.com/customize/axios-16-cu?configuration=1a42aaeb-21e0-4e9c-bc65-d05425914d97


----------



## Damz87 (Sep 14, 2019)

Joined the club today


----------



## LegionWolf

Damz87 said:


> Joined the club today



Welcome!!!

You’re gonna loooooveeee it

I don’t have nearly half burn in (on headphone or z1 ) and still blows mind and getting better


----------



## LegionWolf

Holy moly. Thought this would just be another song I liked -  it sounds like while new song thru z1 (currently on z1rs)  
Swow


----------



## raypin (Sep 15, 2019)

Mm..traveled with my DMP Z1. No special case....just a nice, soft textile bag (to minimize scratching)  and placed inside my backpack. Breezed through airport security with no problems.  Some of my headfi rig has been flagged by airport security,,,,like when i brought with me my Woo Audio WA8. I told the staffer it was a tube-based amp dac for headphones......failing to understand, I reverted to my usual answer: it is a battery bank.

Recent trip to SG....nekkid...and the proper way to use the DMP:


----------



## LegionWolf

raypin said:


> Mm..traveled with my DMP Z1. No special case....just a nice, soft textile bag and placed inside my backpack. Breezed through airport security with no problems.
> 
> Recent trip to SG....nekkid...and the proper way to use the DMP:



Jaw on floor 

Please tell me it’s a high end nylon strap at least !


----------



## raypin (Sep 14, 2019)

LegionWolf said:


> Jaw on floor
> 
> Please tell me it’s a high end nylon strap at least !



Mm...nope. Took it from my niece’s school backpack. Run of the mill nylon strap with lock.

I ve located a seller from Japan selling that handsome carrying case from VanNuys. Problem was my trip to SG was much earlier than promised delivery so I had to improvise.


----------



## purk

raypin said:


> Mm..traveled with my DMP Z1. No special case....just a nice, soft textile bag and placed inside my backpack. Breezed through airport security with no problems.
> 
> Recent trip to SG....nekkid...and the proper way to use the DMP:



Very hardcore!!  I use a 10” laptop sleeve as a protection whenever I take the Z1to work or out and about.


----------



## raypin (Sep 14, 2019)

purk said:


> Very hardcore!!  I use a 10” laptop sleeve as a protection whenever I take the Z1to work or out and about.



Mm...I m still going for that VanNuys case. As soon as I m bored with the SP 2000 cu.







Lol! I m kidding.....no, I m not!...kidding....not!


----------



## purk

raypin said:


> Mm...I m still going for that VanNuys case. As soon as I m bored with the SP 2000 cu.
> 
> Lol!


I don’t even walk around with the Z1 though.  I use my modify ZX300 and IER-Z1R for that.


----------



## raypin (Sep 14, 2019)

purk said:


> I don’t walk around with the Z1 though.  I use my modify ZX300 and IER-Z1R for that.



Mm...I can get away with that because SG is very safe. Other cities? Not likely.


----------



## purk (Sep 14, 2019)

raypin said:


> Mm...I can get away with that because SG is very safe. Other cities? Not likely.


 Not about safety but afraid of dropping it or put a major ding on it.  For clumsy people like me it is best for the Z1 to be transportable and not portable.  Due to its weight, the Z1 is likely to be dead upon impact or sustained major damage.


----------



## tom2517

LegionWolf said:


> And holy freaking moly ... this is nuts ... and I’ve spent what I thought was crazy amount on cable. This is 1.5x stellia’s!
> 
> AXIOS Cu
> https://www.kimber.com/customize/axios-16-cu?configuration=1a42aaeb-21e0-4e9c-bc65-d05425914d97


........


----------



## LegionWolf

tom2517 said:


> ........



Deep...


----------



## LegionWolf

If anyone has Dell points or coupon 

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/accessories/apd/aa777461


----------



## raypin

purk said:


> Not about safety but afraid of dropping it or put a major ding on it.  For clumsy people like me it is best for the Z1 to be transportable and not portable.  Due to its weight, the Z1 is likely to be dead upon impact or sustained major damage.



Mm...I walk slow and walk on the correct side of the road like the locals (escalators, walkways etc.). The weight is not that bad. No rush. Relaxed walking specially when I m listening to my favorite tracks, drowning street noise pollution. The Stellia provides good sound isolation,  not too much but just enough to be able to listen to ambient noise and provide situational awareness. 

Risky but worth it.


----------



## raypin

LegionWolf said:


> If anyone has Dell points or coupon
> 
> https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/accessories/apd/aa777461



Mm....did not know that the DMP Z1 is now categorized as Speaker.....and Dell now sells DAPs? What's next? Push-up bras?


----------



## tinker6

Hi All, I recently purchased a DMP-Z1 and had two questions related to extending the battery lifespan. In general I would like to leave my DMP plugged in then listen either with the power adapter or using the battery preferred option. By default the DMP will then either maintain the charge level at 100% or Automatically recharge to 100% when I am done listening. I would like a battery care option to limit the max and min charge level like in the Sony WM1Z which has very similar firmware.  

Does anyone know the best way to request a new firmware feature to add a battery care type option (to set max & min charge levels)? I tried emailing Sony support and also adding my request to the Sony support discussion but both seem to have gone into a black hole. Does someone here have a good way to request firmware enhancements from Sony, especially for a Signature Product like this? 
Can someone clarify if there is any benefit of fully draining the battery as mentioned in the manual, I thought this was more useful for avoiding memory effect in NIMH or NiCad's vs Li-Ion which doesn't need this or for battery gauge calibration. I don't think this feature extends battery longevity like limiting peak and minimum charge does. 

Per the online manual "This player is equipped with a function to avoid battery deterioration. Battery deterioration can occur when the battery is charged and discharged repeatedly.
When you connect the player to an AC power source, after you turn off the player by holding down the  (power) button for 2 seconds, charging continues until the battery is fully charged. Once the battery is fully charged, discharging will start. Discharging continues over a long period of time until the battery runs out.
Therefore, the player may not turn on if you do not use the player for a long period of time. If you cannot turn on the player even when you hold down the  (power) button for 4 seconds, disconnect and reconnect the AC adapter (supplied). Charging will start, and then you can use the player."
Here is an interesting article about ways to extend longevity in Li-Ion batteries https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Thanks All


----------



## tom2517

tinker6 said:


> Hi All, I recently purchased a DMP-Z1 and had two questions related to extending the battery lifespan. In general I would like to leave my DMP plugged in then listen either with the power adapter or using the battery preferred option. By default the DMP will then either maintain the charge level at 100% or Automatically recharge to 100% when I am done listening. I would like a battery care option to limit the max and min charge level like in the Sony WM1Z which has very similar firmware.
> 
> Does anyone know the best way to request a new firmware feature to add a battery care type option (to set max & min charge levels)? I tried emailing Sony support and also adding my request to the Sony support discussion but both seem to have gone into a black hole. Does someone here have a good way to request firmware enhancements from Sony, especially for a Signature Product like this?
> Can someone clarify if there is any benefit of fully draining the battery as mentioned in the manual, I thought this was more useful for avoiding memory effect in NIMH or NiCad's vs Li-Ion which doesn't need this or for battery gauge calibration. I don't think this feature extends battery longevity like limiting peak and minimum charge does.
> ...



congrats on your purchase!


----------



## LegionWolf

So kind of cross posting - but got Stellias in and I don’t have balanced adapter. Should be here any minute. 


But I’m actually very sadly shocked at the lack of low end these have (playing of unbalanced cord came with stellia on DMP-z1)...


I know there’s break in but I don’t think it’s going to add what I’ve gotten from mdr-z1r’s (which also aren’t fully broken in). And z1rs give bass I need plus more than fine on bad / mids. Stellia feeling extremely bright. Overly so in places


Haven’t changed from direct source as never had to touch for mdr/ ier z1rs. Might try to help


But if someone’s on fence about getting and it’s the sound you like (not saying bad, just don’t think they’ll be mind sound) there might be exemtrely lightly (and gently ) used Stellias for sale here soon ...


Was really hoping to plug in and just here the magic


Edit : and listening to not so bass heavy album to give better shot. But I just lean to z1rs sooo much more 

Tried little Michael's Thriller in dsd and Pharrell’s album GIRL. Some other randoms. A/B’ing will continue. 


And to those asking about ear warmth. Stellia warm ears more than z1rs also. The z1rs bigger so seem to have more airspace is it’s closed shell if helps.


Ok second edit. Got balanced connection to 4.4mm and sounds a loooooottttt better. But we’ll see. Still not giving me the wow I thought


I think I’m missing the sub bass a lot more than I thought 

So far sticking with Sony signature series is ‘my’ sound I think


----------



## ruthieandjohn

@LegionWolf , so interesting.  When I compared the Stellia on the DMP-Z1 to the MDR-Z1, I definitely preferred the Stellia.  I like a sturdy bass foundation, but with bright, transparent treble (I love the sound of Grados, for example), so maybe it was a difference it taste that explains our difference in preference.


----------



## LegionWolf

ruthieandjohn said:


> @LegionWolf , so interesting.  When I compared the Stellia on the DMP-Z1 to the MDR-Z1, I definitely preferred the Stellia.  I like a sturdy bass foundation, but with bright, transparent treble (I love the sound of Grados, for example), so maybe it was a difference it taste that explains our difference in preference.



I think that’s really what it comes down too. I wanna love the new Stellias.. but found I was forcing myself to take off z1rs to go back and listen to stelli for A/B - but was always ready to take Stellias off and go back to (and like more ) the sound from z1rs....

Hrmmmm


----------



## LegionWolf

Ok, ok. These are starting to open quite a bit.
It’s was almost like don’t listen to them for at least first two hours, just turn on music leave room and let burn in...


----------



## raypin (Sep 16, 2019)

LegionWolf said:


> So kind of cross posting - but got Stellias in and I don’t have balanced adapter. Should be here any minute.
> 
> 
> But I’m actually very sadly shocked at the lack of low end these have (playing of unbalanced cord came with stellia on DMP-z1)...
> ...



Mm...As I am quite familiar with the Focal Utopia (early adopter), putting the Stellia for the first time was very familiar territory (Utopia is still better). And, I prefer the sound of the Stellia over my Z1R on the DMP Z1.

It is a question of personal preference and the type of music that is being played.

I m thinking of having the stock XLR cable shortened and reterminated to 4.4 mm. Stock cable looks beautiful (a little stiff) and it would be almost a crime to pair the Stellia with any cable.


----------



## LegionWolf

Gotta go balanced. I have cheaper one now but works well enough: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XKJWNXS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_pkfGDbHBV0ZZ3

Have new $150 connector from wooaudio showing up Monday (let’s you keep stock cable and don’t have to reterm):
https://wooaudio.com/accessories/4-pin-xlr-to-pentaconn-adapter

And these are starting to open quite a bit.
It’s was almost like don’t listen to them for at least first two hours, just turn on music leave room and let burn in...


----------



## raymogi

bmichels said:


> We will be very interested to hear your comparaison between the Diana Phi and the Verite Closed.   Booth are on my list...



Ok so the store didn’t have Verite Closed ready just yet, they say it’ll be there next month for sure. But I got to try the Diana Phi and Stellia with SP2000Cu (store didn’t have DMP as well).

I love the Stellia’s performance. Reminded me a lot of my Empyrean. Similar soundstage and good thicc sound. Exactly my preference. I just don’t like the brown color.

The Diana Phi though... OMG... makes me want to sell my Empyrean cause I’m afraid it won’t have much use. The only reason I flew out of the country to get to the store is to try the fit (and pick up my 11 Pro as well). Once I got the fit down, cause it’s definitely an unusual fit for me, I get to enjoy the hype. Yeah it pretty much ticks every boxes for me. I can’t imagine when I pair it with my DMP later.

I will order it shortly along with the Superconductor cable. Endgame “portable” achieved.


----------



## LegionWolf

raymogi said:


> Ok so the store didn’t have Verite Closed ready just yet, they say it’ll be there next month for sure. But I got to try the Diana Phi and Stellia with SP2000Cu (store didn’t have DMP as well).
> 
> I love the Stellia’s performance. Reminded me a lot of my Empyrean. Similar soundstage and good thicc sound. Exactly my preference. I just don’t like the brown color.
> 
> ...



Have heard good things about the Phi -- I just can't do open back..


----------



## bmichels

I just updated my A&K SP1000 ss firmware and now I can WiFi Stream Youtube ! BRILLANT ! Congrats A&K !

--> OK, it is not HighRes but it is fun and useful ) . I really wish SONY was as inovative with their "flagship" DMP-Z1 but... it don't even support WiFi ! ;-(


----------



## LegionWolf

bmichels said:


> I just updated my A&K SP1000 ss firmware and now I can WiFi Stream Youtube ! BRILLANT ! Congrats A&K !
> 
> --> OK, it is not HighRes but it is fun and useful ) . I really wish SONY was as inovative with their "flagship" DMP-Z1 but... it don't even support WiFi ! ;-(



couldn’t have more perfect timing. Just put in order for sp2000  comes Monday. 
Layla Aions just came in


----------



## LegionWolf

O
M
G

Layla aions and DMP-z1. Haven’t even messed with bass setting on cord

These 24 drivers dancing all over my eardrums!  Loving it !!!


----------



## nanaholic

bmichels said:


> I just updated my A&K SP1000 ss firmware and now I can WiFi Stream Youtube ! BRILLANT ! Congrats A&K !
> 
> --> OK, it is not HighRes but it is fun and useful ) . I really wish SONY was as inovative with their "flagship" DMP-Z1 but... it don't even support WiFi ! ;-(



There's nothing innovative about this though. Recent high end AK players runs a locked down ASOP Android, paired with a well understood mobile phone SoC (AK also use Qualcomm SnapDragon SoC - the MOST common SoC of Android phones in the world) what you are holding is essentially a cell-less mobile phone that already has everything done, programmed, and tested for it by millions of other vendors, they've merely unlocked something that was essentially more or less there in the first place.

Sony is actually much more innovative and daring when they do everything from scratch - that includes both custom made parts as well as the software which they wrote from scratch, it just looks less sexy because they are starting from scratch and it takes them longer to make progress as they work at it alone instead of leverging existing work.


----------



## LegionWolf

nanaholic said:


> There's nothing innovative about this though. Recent high end AK players runs a locked down ASOP Android, paired with a well understood mobile phone SoC (AK also use Qualcomm SnapDragon SoC - the MOST common SoC of Android phones in the world) what you are holding is essentially a cell-less mobile phone that already has everything done, programmed, and tested for it by millions of other vendors, they've merely unlocked something that was essentially more or less there in the first place.
> 
> Sony is actually much more innovative and daring when they do everything from scratch - that includes both custom made parts as well as the software which they wrote from scratch, it just looks less sexy because they are starting from scratch and it takes them longer to make progress as they work at it alone instead of leverging existing work.


Liked   x2


----------



## Wyville

bmichels said:


> I just updated my A&K SP1000 ss firmware and now I can WiFi Stream Youtube ! BRILLANT ! Congrats A&K !
> 
> --> OK, it is not HighRes but it is fun and useful ) . I really wish SONY was as inovative with their "flagship" DMP-Z1 but... it don't even support WiFi ! ;-(


Pah! That's nothing. I could play Solitaire on the FiiO M11. Can the DMP-Z1 do that, I ask you?! 

Okay... That was probably the lamest way to cover up the fact that I can't afford the DMP-Z1, yet really really want one.


----------



## Whitigir

Actually Sony OS is all about digital music processing.  Different way of processing the data would intervene with digital music processing under different scopes, and Sony always try to minimize the negativities that they bring, which is inevitably.  One of the recent example i can give is Android and SRC by pass.

I kept saying this over and over again, but people don’t want to see into it, or rather listen into the differences and realize it themselves.  The OS, the Apps, the formats files of your music are all is going to be effected.  Remember, this is Digital music, which means they are nothing but a string of binary numerical 1 and 0.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I found a nice backpack that fits DMP-Z1 very well + all my tech.

https://www.arcido.com/products/faroe?p_id=1670875119710


----------



## raypin (Oct 8, 2019)

Mm...until Sony decides to natively enable streamers again, I am stuck with LDAC and Aptx  streaming using a cheap Android chinese phone to connect my Tidal hifi subscription. Will have to do. Actually a good on the go system. DMP safely in the backpack with smartphone as controller and streaming device. Would prefer to use my Apple Watch and iPhone but AAC is a dealbreaker. Not good enough although there’s always ALAC.


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I found a nice backpack that fits DMP-Z1 very well + all my tech.
> 
> https://www.arcido.com/products/faroe?p_id=1670875119710


How will you access the control and knob ?


----------



## LegionWolf

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I found a nice backpack that fits DMP-Z1 very well + all my tech.
> 
> https://www.arcido.com/products/faroe?p_id=1670875119710



saw your video other day. Great stuff. Keep it up man!
I have peak design travel back pack and can try similar   I like the smaller case/ bag for short trips     Wouldn’t travel without bigger backpack like you. But don’t think I could ever get over fear of it rolling thru tsa to travel on plane with it. They give no F¥}€$


----------



## raypin (Oct 8, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> How will you access the control and knob ?



Mm...you can't...not unless you wear the small backpack in front (public transport style). In my case, I just set the dmp on shuffle mode and just let it play. Go with the flow. Anything I put in are tracks I ve selected anyway so no need to fuss over.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

LegionWolf said:


> saw your video other day. Great stuff. Keep it up man!
> I have peak design travel back pack and can try similar   I like the smaller case/ bag for short trips     Wouldn’t travel without bigger backpack like you. But don’t think I could ever get over fear of it rolling thru tsa to travel on plane with it. They give no F¥}€$



I’ve traveled with DMP on airplane a few times. TSA did not inspect it once, I was surprised. The backpack allows me to transport it without carrying the Sony case by hand which has a high risk of me leaving it somewhere. When I get to distinction, I enjoy music in my hotel room. I don’t walk around and listen with DMP like some people do. I don’t want to risk getting robbed. Been a victim a few times so I learned. Lol....


----------



## tumpux

dont they learn something from the movies about robbing asian guys?


----------



## LegionWolf

I wouldn't be as much worried about me as some a$$h@t rushing through bumping me/ bag i had it in...

Maybe once i get full van nuys case to go with bag...


----------



## Whitigir

Home made genuine THICK Hide.  It is perfect to carry and travel around with, can even put in a back pack safely and secure with the strap too.....anyways, I am still not going to bring it out and around too far from home.

not only the appearances, but the sound is also too beautiful


----------



## ljnew

Whitigir said:


> Yes, and I agree with your points.  The DMP serves many purposes well, but lack input options or streaming capabilities


IMHO streaming at this level is ridiculous.  Why introduce noise when you spend $10,000+ on equipment?  At that level, you wan't all your files locally.


----------



## ljnew

Can I use dmp z1 at the gym while working out?


----------



## Whitigir

ljnew said:


> Can I use dmp z1 at the gym while working out?


You can use the DMP-Z1 as a Bench Press....just hang one on each side


----------



## purk

Or just a bi-cep curl!


Whitigir said:


> You can use the DMP-Z1 as a Bench Press....just hang one on each side


----------



## bmichels

ljnew said:


> IMHO streaming at this level is ridiculous.  Why introduce noise when you spend $10,000+ on equipment?  At that level, you wan't all your files locally.



I use quite often streaming with my $ 18.000 Aurender W20... and sound is very good.  Sometime no noticable sound degradation...


----------



## paulchiu (Oct 23, 2019)

Hello Sony DMP-Z1 owners,

I just received my new unit from the Sony US distributor Tech Data in California.
Before I open the tape, I noticed the serial number as 1189008.
This is odd as how could this be the 8th unit nearly 1.5 year since intro.
Thanks for your time.

Paul


----------



## Whitigir

Lol...I don’t think that is how Sony is marking the produced unit.


----------



## LegionWolf

Whitigir said:


> Lol...I don’t think that is how Sony is marking the produced unit.



I agree. 
But even if did - that retailer could have purchased a long time ago. These don’t fly off the shelves.


----------



## Whitigir

They actually kinda do...lol...it took a long time to be in stock at some dealers.  Back when I bought it, not sure about now


----------



## ljnew

bmichels said:


> Congratulations for your purchase. Enjoy your new toy.


Any comparison vs the sp2000?


----------



## LegionWolf

ljnew said:


> Any comparison vs the sp2000?



still trying out both and awaiting 2.5 to 4.4 adapter from effect audio so I can use same headphones / iems on both. Also getting stock cable for all three connections (no adapters) for my empire ears legend x so it’s really apples to apples from iem standpoint (and balanced is only way to go imho they seem to make songs come to life / pop )


----------



## purk

LegionWolf said:


> still trying out both and awaiting 2.5 to 4.4 adapter from effect audio so I can use same headphones / iems on both. Also getting stock cable for all three connections (no adapters) for my empire ears legend x so it’s really apples to apples from iem standpoint (and balanced is only way to go imho they seem to make songs come to life / pop )



Do keep us posted.  The DMP-Z1 can keep up with a highend desktop amp such as a $5000 USD  Audio-Technica HA5050H so I am sure that it can surpass the SP2000.


----------



## paulchiu

Whitigir said:


> They actually kinda do...lol...it took a long time to be in stock at some dealers.  Back when I bought it, not sure about now



I waited 4 months for mine.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> Do keep us posted.  The DMP-Z1 can keep up with a highend desktop amp such as a $5000 USD  Audio-Technica HA5050H so I am sure that it can surpass the SP2000.



I myself, do see a lot of *Pros* in the DMP-Z1 on the Digital Processing itself.


----------



## skr3328

After 90 days my Z1 is back with main board and battery replaced. All music files are gone.


----------



## Whitigir

skr3328 said:


> After 90 days my Z1 is back with main board and battery replaced. All music files are gone.


Congratulation! It is a new DMP-Z1


----------



## Whitigir

Does anyone have previous firmware for DMP-Z1 saved ? Lol


----------



## imparanoic

skr3328 said:


> After 90 days my Z1 is back with main board and battery replaced. All music files are gone.



what was wrong with your Z1? seem you had it repaired in mainland china, what are the mainland service like?


----------



## tom2517

imparanoic said:


> what was wrong with your Z1? seem you had it repaired in mainland china, what are the mainland service like?


On product like this I am almost certain it was sent back to Japan for repairs.


----------



## nanaholic

imparanoic said:


> what was wrong with your Z1? seem you had it repaired in mainland china, what are the mainland service like?



The repair receipt says his unit's internal Li-ion battery won't charge, so they replaced the main board as well as the battery packs.


----------



## skr3328

tom2517 said:


> On product like this I am almost certain it was sent back to Japan for repairs.


Wasn’t sent back to Japan but waited for spare parts shipped from Japan for 80 days


----------



## Whitigir

skr3328 said:


> Wasn’t sent back to Japan but waited for spare parts shipped from Japan for 80 days


Luckily they had spare parts


----------



## roofus

bmichels said:


> I just updated my A&K SP1000 ss firmware and now I can WiFi Stream Youtube ! BRILLANT ! Congrats A&K !
> 
> --> OK, it is not HighRes but it is fun and useful ) . I really wish SONY was as inovative with their "flagship" DMP-Z1 but... it don't even support WiFi ! ;-(




Only the AK 1000  . . . how yesterday . . . that's old technology . . . that's ancient technology! Are you rubbing 2 sticks together to cook your dinner? It's 2019 dude!


----------



## roofus

bmichels said:


> I just updated my A&K SP1000 ss firmware and now I can WiFi Stream Youtube ! BRILLANT ! Congrats A&K !
> 
> --> OK, it is not HighRes but it is fun and useful ) . I really wish SONY was as inovative with their "flagship" DMP-Z1 but... it don't even support WiFi ! ;-(


Only an SP1000? That is so yesterday dude! How can you show your face in public?


----------



## leetony (Oct 25, 2019)

Good afternoon! I recently purchased the z1 and the ier-z1r and I am a happy listener! Here’s my iPad+Roon+Z1 streaming setup


----------



## Whitigir

Welcome to the club, but it hurts me to see your Usb cables that serves digital out purposes ...


----------



## LegionWolf

Go local (storage that is)!


----------



## leetony

Whitigir said:


> Welcome to the club, but it hurts me to see your Usb cables that serves digital out purposes ...


Please let me know what I should use? Thanks


----------



## Whitigir

Silver dragon from moon audio is pretty good


----------



## tom2517

skr3328 said:


> Wasn’t sent back to Japan but waited for spare parts shipped from Japan for 80 days



Must say I am surprised.


----------



## LegionWolf

leetony said:


> Please let me know what I should use? Thanks



no streaming. Download to device itself


----------



## LegionWolf (Oct 26, 2019)

Nice morning with DMP-Z1 and Layla aion w/ effect audio 4.4 mm to 2.5 mm balanced

Vvveeeerrryyyyy nice pairing. 
There’s something to me said for 24 drivers (total) tickling ones brain...  
Still need much time for ‘comparison’


----------



## Whitigir

Now time to shine a LED over the shiny surface and find micro-scratches.  Trust me! It is fun


----------



## jonstatt

Whitigir said:


> Now time to shine a LED over the shiny surface and find micro-scratches.  Trust me! It is fun



Noooo! Dont start that. Mine had a few on the rear shiny black section near where the USB port is. And it was like that out of the box and it had most definitely not been opened before. It's a fragile surface and getting a few marks is unavoidable .


----------



## ljnew

LegionWolf said:


> still trying out both and awaiting 2.5 to 4.4 adapter from effect audio so I can use same headphones / iems on both. Also getting stock cable for all three connections (no adapters) for my empire ears legend x so it’s really apples to apples from iem standpoint (and balanced is only way to go imho they seem to make songs come to life / pop )


any first impressions?


----------



## LegionWolf

Layla aion with dmp-z1 is one of if not the best setups I've had so far- will need to do little more A/B comparison 

Like the sp2000 because it lets me stream tidal - but biggest thing i wish is dmp had search like sp2000 for local files --- it currently has thing"alphabetically"-- except when songs with all kinds of letters show up randomly (out of order) when scrolling thru list...Want to use sony music center because it analyzes songs ( not sure how much this help anything other than categorize / get so album art I might not have)


----------



## bmichels

LegionWolf said:


> Layla aion with dmp-z1 is one of if not the best setups I've had so far- will need to do little more A/B comparison
> 
> Like the sp2000 because it lets me stream tidal - but biggest thing i wish is dmp had search like sp2000 for local files --- it currently has thing"alphabetically"-- except when songs with all kinds of letters show up randomly (out of order) when scrolling thru list...Want to use sony music center because it analyzes songs ( not sure how much this help anything other than categorize / get so album art I might not have)



Can you by any chance describe the sound difference between the SP2000 and the DMP-Z1 ?   Does the DMP-Z1, Sonically, really surpass the SP2000 or... are they in the salme league (at least with IEMs) ?


----------



## LegionWolf

bmichels said:


> Can you by any chance describe the sound difference between the SP2000 and the DMP-Z1 ?   Does the DMP-Z1, Sonically, really surpass the SP2000 or... are they in the salme league (at least with IEMs) ?



I don't think my ears could count these out from being in same league -- the differences are small and no where near enough to count as different leagues - both are highest end I've ever heard ( I think dmp will win head to head on anything, but not by so much you'd be shocked at difference)


----------



## Whitigir

LegionWolf said:


> I don't think my ears could count these out from being in same league -- the differences are small and no where near enough to count as different leagues - both are highest end I've ever heard ( I think dmp will win head to head on anything, but not by so much you'd be shocked at difference)


I am actually shocked by this statement, but thank you for the impressions


----------



## hshock76

Has anyone upgraded from TA-ZH1ES to DMP-Z1? Is there a marked improvement going to the Z1? I am running both MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R. Thanks.


----------



## DeepSouth

Whitigir said:


> Let me guess....the analog amplification section .  Why dont you wait until DMP Z2



Are there any rumors of a dmp-z2? does Sony ever refresh flagships like this?


----------



## jonstatt

DeepSouth said:


> Are there any rumors of a dmp-z2? does Sony ever refresh flagships like this?



The Z1 is still considered new?!! Sony hasnt even updated the 1Z/1A and they are several years old now. Z2 is far away and my guess is that it may never happen .


----------



## DeepSouth

jonstatt said:


> The Z1 is still considered new?!! Sony hasnt even updated the 1Z/1A and they are several years old now. Z2 is far away and my guess is that it may never happen .


My A&K sp1000 was considered new when I bought it, and now the sp2000 is out. 
The first time I heard the dmp-z1 I was impressed with sound quality; build quality too. I few choices left me scratching my head like 256 gb storage for a very expensive machine, but I learned over this hobby that everyone excepts tiny storage space. I still want this giant dap, but it’s a steep price if another one is coming.


----------



## tom2517

Yeah I wouldn’t worry a Z2 coming anytime soon, if at all. The tech will trickle down but Z1 feels like a one off product.


----------



## LegionWolf

DeepSouth said:


> My A&K sp1000 was considered new when I bought it, and now the sp2000 is out.
> The first time I heard the dmp-z1 I was impressed with sound quality; build quality too. I few choices left me scratching my head like 256 gb storage for a very expensive machine, but I learned over this hobby that everyone excepts tiny storage space. I still want this giant dap, but it’s a steep price if another one is coming.



Two micro sd slots -- i have 1 TB in each so--- ya no space issues..


----------



## purk

hshock76 said:


> Has anyone upgraded from TA-ZH1ES to DMP-Z1? Is there a marked improvement going to the Z1? I am running both MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R. Thanks.



The DMP-Z1 just sounds better to my ears.  The image is more solid and depth of sound field is deeper which make the sound quality even more alive.  Width of stage wise is a toss up.  Midrange is also slightly sweeter and overall presentation is even more liquid.  The DMP just sound more or less like a higher end tube amplifier.  It also slam a little harder compared to ZH1ES.  Treble is sweeter as well.  Is it worth the price....only you can answer that question.  




LegionWolf said:


> Two micro sd slots -- i have 1 TB in each so--- ya no space issues..



Big spender!  I am still waiting for the 1TB Sandisk microSD to be on sale again.  I did buy one during the Prime Day and just use that card on my on the go player ZX300 modded.


----------



## Whitigir

When 1TB MicroSD is on sale, the 2TB is already out! Lol


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> When 1TB MicroSD is on sale, the 2TB is already out! Lol



It was $349 + tax on prime day which is almost $100 off the current price of $340ish.


----------



## bmichels (Oct 30, 2019)

tom2517 said:


> Yeah I wouldn’t worry a Z2 coming anytime soon, if at all. The tech will trickle down but Z1 feels like a one off product.



No, we do not need a trickle down Z1 but instead a Z1 with* WiFi streaming, an iPad app *and ( and eventually a much bigger screen and a real line-out). 

May be one day Sony will realize that history goes toward High-res streaming ? A&K did...


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> No, we do not need a trickle down Z1 but instead a Z1 with* WiFi streaming, an iPad app *and a real line-out.
> 
> May be one day Sony will realize that history goes toward High-res streaming ?


I get it as well but what happened if that affect the overall sound quality of unit?  It can easily added noise and so forth.  I want one too especially for the asking price of the DMP-Z1.  Another important features is coaxial input.


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 30, 2019)

There is no need for the DMP to have WiFi and streaming ability as it already have Bluetooth capability.  It was also built toward internal storage rather than streaming focused device.


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> There is no need for the DMP to have WiFi and streaming ability as it already have Bluetooth capability.  It was also built toward internal storage rather than streaming focused device.


Hirez streaming brother.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> Hirez streaming brother.


Idk, I rather have high-res files internally on a memory card


----------



## bmichels

purk said:


> I get it as well but what happened if that affect the overall sound quality of unit?  ...



Well, "IF" there is really a sound degradation when WIFI is used, then...it is easy to have a toggle switch to turn WIFI ON/OFF, and then to use WIFI only when Streaming.  
And for the iPad App, I guess it can use BT 5.0 instead of WIFI to connect to the Z1 ?


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> Idk, I rather have high-res files internally on a memory card



I know we will never agree on this, and this is the beauty of such forums to agree to not agree, but, you can use streaming to discover a new album or artist, and then download the tracks that you really like...


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> I know we will never agree on this, and this is the beauty of such forums to agree to not agree, but, you can use streaming to discover a new album or artist, and then download the tracks that you really like...



That’s why I suggest Sony to enable the USB C port to work with any in coming digital signal from Streaming devices.


----------



## bmichels

purk said:


> That’s why I suggest Sony to enable the USB C port to work with any in coming digital signal from Streaming devices.



?? Do you mean that today, you cannoy input digital through the USB Port ?


----------



## Whitigir

DMP can act as External USB-DAC, and also Bluetooth DAC, and that is why itself, doesn’t need Streaming capability


----------



## buzzlulu

Whitigir said:


> DMP can act as External USB-DAC, and also Bluetooth DAC, and that is why itself, doesn’t need Streaming capability



Hmmm.    There are a large number of us on the Naim 2 channel forum who own the WM1Z. While we are all thrilled with the sound all of us agree that its performance as a USB DAC is slightly inferior to playback from the internal memory/memory card.

So I’m not sure I agree with the statement above. Yes - playback from streaming services is possible - however it does have room for improvement.


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> Hmmm.    There are a large number of us on the Naim 2 channel forum who own the WM1Z. While we are all thrilled with the sound all of us agree that its performance as a USB DAC is slightly inferior to playback from the internal memory/memory card.
> 
> So I’m not sure I agree with the statement above. Yes - playback from streaming services is possible - however it does have room for improvement.



there isn’t “perfection” in this world, simply have to accept that and learn to compromise.
Yes, you can stream to discover new album and tracks, but you can also buy it and store on a device for the best performances.  I do that too, and I do it on an IPhone with AirPod....and there is a new Pro coming out.

it would blow my mind when people buy the DMP-Z1 to simply enjoy High-res streaming...period.  Especially when even MicroSD card can affect the performances, and you can have 2TB of storage


----------



## tom2517

Whitigir said:


> there isn’t “perfection” in this world, simply have to accept that and learn to compromise.
> Yes, you can stream to discover new album and tracks, but you can also buy it and store on a device for the best performances.  I do that too, and I do it on an IPhone with AirPod....and there is a new Pro coming out.
> 
> it would blow my mind when people buy the DMP-Z1 to simply enjoy High-res streaming...period.  Especially when even MicroSD card can affect the performances, and you can have 2TB of storage



That is exactly what I do though, I bought Z1 for streaming. But I got no complaints so far.


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> t...., and I do it on an IPhone with AirPod....and there is a *new Pro coming out.*



What "new Pro" are you refering to ?


----------



## tom2517

bmichels said:


> What "new Pro" are you refering to ?



I assume he was talking about the new AirPod pro.


----------



## LegionWolf

bmichels said:


> What "new Pro" are you refering to ?





tom2517 said:


> I assume he was talking about the new AirPod pro.



Got mine yesterday, delivered 3 minutes after opening of apple store -- love silicon valley


----------



## meomap

LegionWolf said:


> Got mine yesterday, delivered 3 minutes after opening of apple store -- love silicon valley


Hi,
From your Sig, you have Sony WF1000XM3.
Can you compare the new Apple and Sony?
Thanks.


----------



## bmichels

LegionWolf said:


> Got mine yesterday, delivered 3 minutes after opening of apple store -- love silicon valley





tom2517 said:


> I assume he was talking about the new AirPod pro.



I was hoping for a* DMP-Z1 Pro* ... ​


----------



## LegionWolf

meomap said:


> Hi,
> From your Sig, you have Sony WF1000XM3.
> Can you compare the new Apple and Sony?
> Thanks.



new airpod pros win hands down 

music wise cause i like bass more the Sennheiser momentum has little more bass -- but these more even for all around listening. So win as best true wireless out there. If Sennheiser were better on calls (and connectivity being better on airpods with iphone)  it would be as big of a win 
and stay put!

But ANC is crazy good - and the pluses of airpods ( good on calls and pairing/ connectivity 2nd to none


----------



## meomap

LegionWolf said:


> new airpod pros win hands down
> 
> music wise cause i like bass more the Sennheiser momentum has little more bass -- but these more even for all around listening. So win as best true wireless out there. If Sennheiser were better on calls (and connectivity being better on airpods with iphone)  it would be as big of a win
> and stay put!
> ...


Hi,
Thank you. Seems like the new Apple cost is on par with Sony.
For me, I never like something white color dangling from the ears down. Seems like Apple like to design something for customers to advertise their annoying products.
I have the Sony.
My son tried to fit the Sony but not comfortable for him. Maybe, I will get the Apple for him this Christmas. 

One more thing to ask from you. How is the fit vs Sony?
Is Apple easier to fit than Sony? Thanks again.


----------



## buzzlulu

I was an early adopter of the Sony however I ultimately returned them due to comfort and fit.  The sound was quite good - the ANC less so due to the inability to get a good seal - even using 3rd party tips.

Received my AirPods Pro yesterday. Apple has another Blockbuster product on their hands!


----------



## electrathecat

Quick question. Does anyone know how the DMP-Z1 does with the Susvara?


----------



## CreditingKarma

DeepSouth said:


> My A&K sp1000 was considered new when I bought it, and now the sp2000 is out.
> The first time I heard the dmp-z1 I was impressed with sound quality; build quality too. I few choices left me scratching my head like 256 gb storage for a very expensive machine, but I learned over this hobby that everyone excepts tiny storage space. I still want this giant dap, but it’s a steep price if another one is coming.




If you already have an sp1000 I would recommend maybe the Hugo TT2. It has a much more powerful amp than the z1 and imo a better dac section. You can feed it with the sp1000 too all that the sp1000 is missing is roon integration.


----------



## Whitigir

CreditingKarma said:


> If you already have an sp1000 I would recommend maybe the Hugo TT2. It has a much more powerful amp than the z1 and imo a better dac section. You can feed it with the sp1000 too all that the sp1000 is missing is roon integration.


What make you say that TT2 has better DAC section that Z1 ?


----------



## CreditingKarma

Whitigir said:


> What make you say that TT2 has better DAC section that Z1 ?




I had a chance to listen to them side by side. I only listened with the lcd 4z at the time I don't think the sony could drive the abyss well with the power that it has available on tap. The chord is a more transparent presentation this might be due to the way that the headphone out integrated differently. The chord also had better instrument separation and a wider sound stage. I was not able to compare on a speaker setup which I think is more telling of a dac. I also am not a fan of a product at this price not having a true line out. 


I am not saying that the sony didn't sound good but I think it is overpriced for sure. At msrp you are in the pric3 range of a Dave or TT2 and Mscaler.


----------



## Whitigir

CreditingKarma said:


> I had a chance to listen to them side by side. I only listened with the lcd 4z at the time I don't think the sony could drive the abyss well with the power that it has available on tap. The chord is a more transparent presentation this might be due to the way that the headphone out integrated differently. The chord also had better instrument separation and a wider sound stage. I was not able to compare on a speaker setup which I think is more telling of a dac. I also am not a fan of a product at this price not having a true line out.
> 
> 
> I am not saying that the sony didn't sound good but I think it is overpriced for sure. At msrp you are in the pric3 range of a Dave or TT2 and Mscaler.



Isn’t that just your opinion ? My opinion when I listened to DMP and DAVE I picked DMP clearly.  And hearing, listening, opinions don’t meant that DMP technically has inferior DAC section, which is my question as of why you stated so


----------



## CreditingKarma

Whitigir said:


> Isn’t that just your opinion ? My opinion when I listened to DMP and DAVE I picked DMP clearly.  And hearing, listening, opinions don’t meant that DMP technically has inferior DAC section, which is my question as of why you stated so




I never said that it was inferior. I just said that in my opinion the TT2 was better than the dmp z1. It is still a great product I just like the TT2 more. The TT2 really isn't portable so the sony wins in that regard.


----------



## LegionWolf

meomap said:


> Hi,
> Thank you. Seems like the new Apple cost is on par with Sony.
> For me, I never like something white color dangling from the ears down. Seems like Apple like to design something for customers to advertise their annoying products.
> I have the Sony.
> ...



Much much easier fit -- way less bulk and I literally can't tell they're in except sound and not hearing anyone else


----------



## Sp12er3

A bit of impression on the airpod: they're build like the airpods, plug and play ease of use at its finest.
ANC is around half as strong as the sony, tho the lack of pressure built up is nice as the upside of that port.
Case much more portable, personalization is nonexistent, i love being able to EQ the Sony (as itsvalready a device tuned by DSP, why care about EQ degradation anymore XD) 
But thats that. Maybe someone should make a n Airpod pro impression thread or something, its good enough to have one.
Back to the topic


CreditingKarma said:


> I had a chance to listen to them side by side. I only listened with the lcd 4z at the time I don't think the sony could drive the abyss well with the power that it has available on tap. The chord is a more transparent presentation this might be due to the way that the headphone out integrated differently. The chord also had better instrument separation and a wider sound stage. I was not able to compare on a speaker setup which I think is more telling of a dac. I also am not a fan of a product at this price not having a true line out.
> 
> 
> I am not saying that the sony didn't sound good but I think it is overpriced for sure. At msrp you are in the pric3 range of a Dave or TT2 and Mscaler.


Did you use it with the 4.4 bal out?


----------



## rumina

it's true that my dmp-z1 can't drive the ab1266 phi to his full potential, tried it via the balanced port on normal and high. was a surprise for me because with the diana phi it's a perfekt match. even if the big abyss needs only a bit more power as the diana phi it hits the border of the dmp-z1 (power delivery/control).

as good as the diana phi pairing are the obrave ra c together with the dmp-z1. i have no other pairing for the obravo thats sounds so good.

both the diana phi and obravo are quite neutral/natural/linear sounding headgear, a fine match for the dmp-z1 who has a warmer tonal character whitout loosing details. the dmp-z1 reminds to the great nice sounding sony amps some decades ago, it's great that sony didn't forget this dna, the wm-z1 was the first product since years which had this fine character again (but not as refinded as the dmp-z1).

it's also true for me that i prefer the dmp-z1 over the chord products, imo they are not primary technical inferior but lacks the refinement in the tonal signature for me (which the dave is fine vs the overall brut hugo 2). i would not be suprised if they measure (a lot) better but i miss the fine touch in the tonal signature. that's the hard part, it's nothing that you can be measured but needs a lot of time testing different transistors, resistors, parts etc to finde a fine match.

the sony dmp-z1 is beaten by my big desktop gear but not by much, for me it's a dap/amp that competes easy with gear in the 10k price range. but it's also a product for someone who can value that a technical gear can have a quality of a fine violin and thus have a own character that shapes the music you play.

imo i think this is the big divider whithin the audiphile communicty, is it's ok that the gear you are using shapes the sound you play? 

at the end it's your decision - as long you get goosebumps your on the right track .


----------



## Whitigir

Have you Tried using DMP Z1 as a digital source into your Desktop Amp ? @rumina


----------



## rumina

@Whitigir no, the dmp-z1 is not ont the lowboard i use for the bigger gear. i use a pimped auralic aries femto for the terminator. did you tried that?


----------



## Whitigir

DMP Z1 hooks to many of my gears for sure.  That is why I value the Digital section of the DMP by a lot


----------



## phonomat

rumina said:


> the sony dmp-z1 is beaten by my big desktop gear but not by much, for me it's a dap/amp that competes easy with gear in the 10k price range.



Well, to be fair, it _is_ a 10k product.


----------



## purk (Nov 2, 2019)

@rumina
Great post!

I agree with most of your impression I ncluding that the DMP falling just a little short of the high end desktop system.  What desktop system do you have?


----------



## Whitigir

And neither of you tried DMP Z1 to external amps.  That isn’t a fair call tbh


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> And neither of you tried DMP Z1 to external amps.  That isn’t a fair call tbh


I will brother...I will.  I get very lazy from time to time.


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> I will brother...I will.  I get very lazy from time to time.



hahahaha you 2 are flipp’n funny! So Ive tried it. It’s pretty cool. Definitely give it a try!


----------



## rumina (Nov 3, 2019)

@purk roon rock / pimped aries femto / denafrips terminator / pathos inpol remix or dynahi or pass sony vfet / susvara or ab1266 phi

true also lazy to test all combination 

is the ground pin connected in the dmp-z1 for a nice a balanced cable (4.4 to xlr)? on the photos i count only a even number of kimber cables.


----------



## Whitigir

4.4mm never has the ground connected


----------



## rumina (Nov 3, 2019)

as the nw-wm1z(a), a bit strange that sony don't use the jeita standard for the 4.4mm plug https://www.phileweb.com/interview/article/201604/25/364.html


----------



## pompom

Whitigir said:


> What make you say that TT2 has better DAC section that Z1 ?



I never enjoyed Chord's sound.  No fun for my taste.


----------



## pompom

bmichels said:


> I was hoping for a* DMP-Z1 Pro* ... ​



Yes, me too, a Z1 with High-res *WiFi Streaming*, a *big 8" screen* and *1 Tb o*nboard ....  . this will be great move ...


----------



## nanaholic (Nov 4, 2019)

rumina said:


> as the nw-wm1z(a), a bit strange that sony don't use the jeita standard for the 4.4mm plug https://www.phileweb.com/interview/article/201604/25/364.html



Nothing strange about it as the GND connection was always optional in the standard depending on usage.
Go to page 3 the representative even explains it:
「基本的にはGNDはプレーヤーとヘッドホンアンプ間の接続に使っていただく際に必要となります。ヘッドホンとバランス接続する際にはGND端子は必要ありません」。
"Basically the GND becomes necessary when connecting a player with a headphone amplifier. When connecting a headphone in balance the GND is not necessary."

This just says that the primary usage of the device per the design is that it is primarily a headphone amp first and foremost.

This is also why third party makers are making those strange looking dual plug 4.4mm/3.5mm interconnect cables where they leverage the GND connection from the 3.5mm side for connecting with amps.


----------



## Infestedfred

Anyone has tested to use NW-ZX507 as a transport (Stream Tidal) to DMP-Z1?
I’m wondering whether it’s a good transport compare to using WM1A/Z.


----------



## raymogi

Finally achieved my endgame combo. I'm really amazed at the Diana Phi. It can do any genres brilliantly.


----------



## Whitigir

raymogi said:


> Finally achieved my endgame combo. I'm really amazed at the Diana Phi. It can do any genres brilliantly.




Very nice! Congratulations !  I myself loving the Hd800S with DMP-Z1 by a lot


----------



## Infestedfred

Sony IER-Z1R iem & MDR-Z1R headphone indeed is heavenly match with DMP-Z1...
Sounds fantastic!!


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> Silver dragon from moon audio is pretty good



Ifi usb is the best actually  I think.

https://ifi-audio.com/products/gemini3-0/


----------



## bmichels

raymogi said:


> Finally achieved my endgame combo. I'm really amazed at the Diana Phi. It can do any genres brilliantly.



"Finally achieved my endgame combo".... until something better comes out !


----------



## Vitaly2017

raymogi said:


> Finally achieved my endgame combo. I'm really amazed at the Diana Phi. It can do any genres brilliantly.




Those ear cups looks so plushy and comfy  hmmmmm


----------



## Whitigir

So, you want DMP-Z1 streaming ?

here is what I am testing out: DMP-Z1 + DX220 (Android O + Bluetooth 5.0 and LDAC capable) + Amazon Music HD

yes....Yes...even better than QuooBuz I used to try out previously.  I have the feeling Amazon HD is what I will be sticking to from now on

the best thing about this is that I can use *DMP-Z1 to DSD-Remastering, or Direct sound mode, *_and I can hold my Dx220 in my hand and browse around.....I guess I don’t have to stay fix at the little screen on DMP-Z1 or hold it big build in my hand is another +_

*I tried comparing between IPhone/IPad AAC into DMP VS LDAC....huge differences!*
_  _


----------



## bmichels

Amazon HD better than QUOBUZ !!!  Damm I need to try !   

I have Amazon Premium, dous this give me access at Amazon HD ?


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> So, you want DMP-Z1 streaming ?
> 
> here is what I am testing out: DMP-Z1 + DX220 (Android O + Bluetooth 5.0 and LDAC capable) + Amazon Music HD
> 
> ...





Sonys ldac is super solid, its like 5% bellow wired connection you almost dont feel the difference if you just forget about it.

Though dx220 usb audio out into dmp would be maximum quality pathe...

Nice test ) I also have to mention that ldac from phone would  work to and it be same sq if used with a dap....


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> Amazon HD better than QUOBUZ !!!  Damm I need to try !
> 
> I have Amazon Premium, dous this give me access at Amazon HD ?


30 days free trial ! LOL


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> So, you want DMP-Z1 streaming ?
> 
> here is what I am testing out: DMP-Z1 + DX220 (Android O + Bluetooth 5.0 and LDAC capable) + Amazon Music HD
> 
> ...



- since I have Amazon prime, I can have Amazon Music for free.  Do this includes Amazon HD or is HD an upgraded version of Amazon Music ?

- do you really need to use a DX220 to stream QUOBUZ/AmazonHD to the DMP-Z1 ?  I was wondering if  an iPhone can offer the same sound quality since it I only for sending the stream to the DX220’s DAC ?


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> - since I have Amazon prime, I can have Amazon Music for free.  Do this includes Amazon HD or is HD an upgraded version of Amazon Music ?
> 
> - do you really need to use a DX220 to stream QUOBUZ/AmazonHD to the DMP-Z1 ?  I was wondering if  an iPhone can offer the same sound quality since it I only for sending the stream to the DX220’s DAC ?


Amazon music for free is the regular MP3 format.

amazon music HD you need to subscribe on a monthly or yearly basis

you don’t have to use DX220 for the LDAC toward DMP-Z1, anything with Android 7 or higher can do it, including smartphones.  Since Smartphones were never designed for music, the dx220 is the only dedicated music device I could find....yet

iPhone only do AAC, and there is a huge different between IPhone 11 pro max on AAC vs Dx220 on LDAC


----------



## LegionWolf

Ya. Was sad when saw on iPhone that even though had 24/192, but it showed iPhone would only play at standard rate :/

but very happy to see HD music market expanding in general


----------



## jonstatt

Amazon music HD only seems to stream at full res from a PC or Mac. Android cripples it to 24/48 for example


----------



## Whitigir

jonstatt said:


> Amazon music HD only seems to stream at full res from a PC or Mac. Android cripples it to 24/48 for example


What can u stream upto from pc/Mac


----------



## Sp12er3

bmichels said:


> Amazon HD better than QUOBUZ !!!  Damm I need to try !
> 
> I have Amazon Premium, dous this give me access at Amazon HD ?


You still need to pay for the subscription, but Premium members got a discount on the HD version I hear.


----------



## leetony (Nov 30, 2019)

Received Van Nuys case today. I now feel safer walking around with the Z1 now.


----------



## Whitigir

And here is my case for my DMP Z1 .  Though I could wear it and walk around but I only use it around the house


----------



## phonomat

Any sweet Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals on this?


----------



## Whitigir

phonomat said:


> Any sweet Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals on this?


If they have any overstock they would !! I saw that ThesourceAv has some sale going on.  I would urge you to give them a call as they are a giant in the industry


----------



## phonomat

Whitigir said:


> If they have any overstock they would !! I saw that ThesourceAv has some sale going on.  I would urge you to give them a call as they are a giant in the industry


Nope, not buying from them, I massively dislike the way they present themselves on this site. If you like them, more power to you.


----------



## Damz87

phonomat said:


> Any sweet Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals on this?



AUD $8,555 minus another 10% (AUD $7,700) from Addicted to Audio Australia. Only problem is they don’t ship internationally so you’d need to use a forwarding service.


----------



## Sp12er3

phonomat said:


> Nope, not buying from them, I massively dislike the way they present themselves on this site. If you like them, more power to you.


rather than judging people from forums its better to judge from their service by actually trying strike a deal with them


----------



## purk

phonomat said:


> Nope, not buying from them, I massively dislike the way they present themselves on this site. If you like them, more power to you.



Give them a call and speak to them.  Jason and crew are some of the best and nicest people in this business.


----------



## asquare3376

phonomat said:


> Nope, not buying from them, I massively dislike the way they present themselves on this site. If you like them, more power to you.


Jason is the best in business. I am sure your impressions will change once you talk to him. I could not recommend him and the team enough.


----------



## phonomat

Nah, I do my business with people who I feel deserve it. I realize they have a huge fanbase here, I just don't fall into that group, that's all. As I said, I won't try to persuade anyone not to buy from them, but you most certainly won't persuade me either. /off topic.


----------



## Damz87 (Dec 28, 2019)

.


----------



## roofus

Will the DMP-Z1 work with a Stax SRM-T8000/SR-009S given that it doesn't have a line out feature?


----------



## nanaholic

roofus said:


> Will the DMP-Z1 work with a Stax SRM-T8000/SR-009S given that it doesn't have a line out feature?



Of course it will.

There's a mis-conception regarding line-outs that is from old thinking. Line out just mean the amp stage is bypass for the "purest" sound straight from the the DAC stage at a fixed voltage level. This may be useful in the past because not all amps are equal, and that component and all-in-one devices may have a bad/poorly made amp that will affect the sound in negative ways, that is why there is traditional thinking that "double amping" is a bad thing, as you may be amping a sub-par output from the source. However now you are talking about extremely high end devices here such as the DMP-Z1 where lots of care is also put into the amp stage such that there's very little distortion and noise at the output, so there's absolutely nothing wrong with using the heaphone out to feed it into another amp.


----------



## roofus

Thank you for your prompt and thorough response! You are quite right about old thinking . . . I am 69 and some days it hurts to think at all!

Would you recommend using the balanced or unbalanced outputs? The cable run will be very short so does it really matter?

Thanks!


----------



## Whitigir

I am using DMP Z1 to my Stax system each and every time


----------



## roofus

balanced or unbalanced or does it matter?


----------



## Whitigir (Dec 28, 2019)

roofus said:


> balanced or unbalanced or does it matter?


I use balanced out, and technically I would say it should be used.  Stax is a balanced system


----------



## roofus

Thanks!


----------



## nanaholic (Dec 29, 2019)

roofus said:


> Thank you for your prompt and thorough response! You are quite right about old thinking . . . I am 69 and some days it hurts to think at all!
> 
> Would you recommend using the balanced or unbalanced outputs? The cable run will be very short so does it really matter?
> 
> Thanks!



Old wisedom usually have certain aspect that is based on truth, you just need to understand what it is instead of taking things on it on face value.  Also as long as you keep an open mind and keep learning, your mind will never get old, and that's the important thing. You don't have to rush it, just take things at your own pace. 

I'm sure the old wisedom that "double amping" being bad applies with older and lesser equipment, but modern equipment - even mid-fi ones - have specification that simply blows old equipment out of the water when it comes to things like noise and distortion that you don't have to worry about such thing as much as they used to a few decades ago.


----------



## Whitigir

My personal review and impression of DMP-Z1 is here! Happy new year

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/so...r-signature-series.23308/reviews#review-23083


----------



## roofus

Whitigir said:


> My personal review and impression of DMP-Z1 is here! Happy new year
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/so...r-signature-series.23308/reviews#review-23083


Thanks for the New Years gift! I have a rotten head cold so I will have plenty of time to pour over your review while lounging in bed!


----------



## Sonywalkmanuser

I feel that this portion about the DMP-Z1 DSD low thermal output should be included inside the review:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-sony-nw-zx500.914486/page-79#post-15359659


----------



## Whitigir

Sonywalkmanuser said:


> I feel that this portion about the DMP-Z1 DSD low thermal output should be included inside the review:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-sony-nw-zx500.914486/page-79#post-15359659


Done! Very good reminder.  Thank you!!


----------



## Rob49

How much better is the DMP-Z1 compared to the TA / Z1R combo ?


----------



## purk (Jan 1, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> How much better is the DMP-Z1 compared to the TA / Z1R combo ?


 Noticeably better sounding....the Z1 is tuned very very well and very refined.  It even best out a really top flight amp such as the Headamp GSX mini and GSX MKii.  The TA can’t touch those two amps I mentioned.  Price is very high though but you don’t need expensive cable or top flight DAC either.


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> Noticeably better sounding....the Z1 is tuned very very well and very refined.  It even best out a really top flight amp such as the Headamp GSX mini and GSX MKii.  The TA can’t touch those two amps I mentioned.  Price is very high though but you don’t need expensive cable or top flight DAC either.



Thanks for feedback. I really do love my TA / Z1R combo. Audiowise, the best products i've ever purchased. I'd be more tempted if the price wasn't so high, but i can't really see it coming down to a price, where i would bite the bullet ??


----------



## buzzlulu

Anyone compare this to any of the Chord offerings - TT2 - TT2/MScaler - or even  Dave?

I owned a TA for a few months to play around with. I found it unimpressive with my Z1R and Utopia. Dark sounding. I preferred both headphones directly out of the 1Z.

I am happy with my GSX Mini - however it is fronting $25k Linn streamer so not a fair comparison


----------



## ruthieandjohn

buzzlulu said:


> Anyone compare this to any of the Chord offerings - TT2 - TT2/MScaler - or even  Dave?
> 
> I owned a TA for a few months to play around with. I found it unimpressive with my Z1R and Utopia. Dark sounding. I preferred both headphones directly out of the 1Z.
> 
> I am happy with my GSX Mini - however it is fronting $25k Linn streamer so not a fair comparison


@Whitigir prefers the DMP Z1, as indicated in this post and those preceding and following:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-wm1z-wm1a.815841/page-2068#post-15392340


----------



## Whitigir

Whoever like my accent, the DMP Z1 here


----------



## Sp12er3

no prob bud, maybe just a tad too quiet


----------



## nanaholic

buzzlulu said:


> Anyone compare this to any of the Chord offerings - TT2 - TT2/MScaler - or even  Dave?



Depends on what your needs are.

If you need lots of driving power and more input options and have a good music server software (like Roon) and all the streamer gadgets already in your inventory, probably go with a TT2/Mscaler combo.

If you want a simple all-in-one solution, mostly use fairly sensitive dynamic headphones like the Focal Clear and one of the best MDR-Z1R pairing, go with the DMP-Z1.

If I didn't have to move around as much as I do now and with more space available to build a completely stationary system around a Roon Server, I probably would have bought a TT2/MScaler combo instead of the DMP-Z1 because it would give me more options to expand into different headphone types which demands more driving power like planers (recently tried the Final Audio D8000 Pro - it's probably the first pair of planers which I want to buy). I loved my Hugo 2, and a TT2/MScaler or even a Hugo2/Mscaler would've been a logical extension, but now I'm happy with the DMP-Z1 because it fits into my lifestyle better. The best sounding gear doesn't mean anything if you don't get to use it, and it's so easy to use the DMP-Z1 because of its all-in-one design that makes it always ready for you to put on a pair of headphones and start listening.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Looks like China already has a $1399 knock-off available? 
https://apos.audio/products/quloos-qls-qa390-digital-music-player?sca_ref=36221.ouwJgZltO5


----------



## Whitigir

Yeah, look like a good alternative for sure


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 10, 2020)

Thanks to creator cables for a few hints that helped me in modifying mine own ! He and his place was the first to upgrade DMP Z1 internal wires.  If anyone want to get their done, I would recommend him.  Every kind person is always trustworthy

Neotech UPOCC silver and Goldplated wires


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> Thanks to creator cables for a few hints that helped me in modifying mine own ! He and his place was the first to upgrade DMP Z1 internal wires.  If anyone want to get their done, I would recommend him.  Every kind person is always trustworthy
> 
> Neotech UPOCC silver and Goldplated wires



You « upgraded « the internal of your Z1 !  You are a brave man !

—> did you heard a difference in sound ?

Also Creator cables’s prices on their site are incredibly high !!  $ 1500 for a plug adapter and $ 12.000 for a câble. !!!


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> You « upgraded « the internal of your Z1 !  You are a brave man !
> 
> —> did you heard a difference in sound ?
> 
> Also Creator cables’s prices on their site are incredibly high !!  $ 1500 for a plug adapter and $ 12.000 for a câble. !!!


Lol, that is not USD for sure ....just guessing.  Yes, there are differences


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> You « upgraded « the internal of your Z1 !  You are a brave man !
> 
> —> did you heard a difference in sound ?
> 
> Also Creator cables’s prices on their site are incredibly high !!  $ 1500 for a plug adapter and $ 12.000 for a câble. !!!


He built the Stax DIY T2 so this is a walk in the park for him.


----------



## Whitigir

The ability to take and run directly Power-supply from an external source is amazing!  It improves the airiness, but mostly the “slam, weight, inner density even further” and that Bass rippling.  These 2 were made for one another!

Discrete and Regulated Linear Power Supply for DMP-Z1, and with each and every components being “Audiophile graded”, such as the usage of hand matched FET, Wima Film Caps, Vishay resistors, Nippon Chemicon, Nichicon, Litz OCC, Silver Solder grade SS-47.  Well, except “an audiophile Fuse”


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> The ability to take and run directly Power-supply from an external source is amazing!  It improves the airiness, but mostly the “slam, weight, inner density even further” and that Bass rippling.  These 2 were made for one another!
> 
> Discrete and Regulated Linear Power Supply for DMP-Z1, and with each and every components being “Audiophile graded”, such as the usage of hand matched FET, Wima Film Caps, Vishay resistors, Nippon Chemicon, Nichicon, Litz OCC, Silver Solder grade SS-47.  Well, except “an audiophile Fuse”



is it a LUMIN power supply ?


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> is it a LUMIN power supply ?


No sir, DIY Sigma 11


----------



## roofus

I am confused . . . .

I understand how an upgraded power supply can improve the performance of an electrical component . . . .however

if the component is running on battery power, what is the benefit, if any of an upgraded power supply?


----------



## Sonywalkmanuser

@Whitigir 

when are you going to get your own dedicated power line like this Japanese audiophile?


----------



## Whitigir

Sonywalkmanuser said:


> @Whitigir
> 
> when are you going to get your own dedicated power line like this Japanese audiophile?



That I don’t , but I do have a separated line from the main AC to the breaker and to my outlet .  That should be plenty already


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 20, 2020)

roofus said:


> I am confused . . . .
> 
> I understand how an upgraded power supply can improve the performance of an electrical component . . . .however
> 
> if the component is running on battery power, what is the benefit, if any of an upgraded power supply?


DMP Z1 has the ability and option to run directly on external power supply without the battery being related.  This was one of the main purpose of having to design the DMP-Z1 from Sony engineers, and it is also one of the hardest engineering feast to achieve.  The ability to switch flawlessly between modes without interrupting anything else.  The team almost gave up on it BTW....I am glad they did make it happened

The DMP-Z1 can run off directly from External power supply with a touch of a finger.  It takes the DMP-Z1 a few seconds to switch but that is it.

You will have to go to setting and choose “AC mode preferred” (this can be done by unchecking the battery preferred mode) to make sure that the DMP-Z1 will run off from the External supply instead.  Because there is “battery preferred mode” which means for any inferior supply, the DMP-Z1 is better running from it battery packs

*The performances is upto another level once you run off from a quality powersupply *


----------



## Sonywalkmanuser

@Whitigir

This is the vibration absorption feets I use for my Yggdrasil DAC, master 9 preamp and Furman power conditioner. The hemisphere ones.  In my experience, lowest end bass is improved with good antivibration(that is after you have clean power).

https://www.edmundoptics.com/f/sorbothanereg-mounts/11849/


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 20, 2020)

Sonywalkmanuser said:


> @Whitigir
> 
> This is the vibration absorption feets I use for my Yggdrasil DAC, master 9 preamp and Furman power conditioner. The hemisphere ones.  In my experience, lowest end bass is improved with good antivibration(that is after you have clean power).
> 
> https://www.edmundoptics.com/f/sorbothanereg-mounts/11849/


Sorbothane!! Excellent!! That is what DMP-Z1 has on it feets.
Thank you! Will look to get it. Found it! On Amazon! @purk  you should get it too
I am using silicone at the moment .  Before the feets though, everything that made the PSU is more important, and I made sure to have composed the best toward dynamic and slams with soundstage as much as possible from all of my experiences just to build this PSU....*I also mounted it on a vibration dampening mechanism too , Main board, capacitors, transformer
 *


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 21, 2020)

My review is with additional details about the choices of LRPSU that I opted for.  The performances is elevated into another level with it and AC mode.  You can check it out here
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/so...r-signature-series.23308/reviews#review-23083

Remember, under this mode, the PSU will play a role at influencing your DMP Z1 performances.  So, choose carefully.

Another thing that can also influence your DMP-Z1 sound performances is the internal Interconnects and the internal headphones cables

1/ Interconnects from DAC, Digital to Analog boards, which connects the analog out signals into your RK501 Potentiometer.  This is 2 short cables

2/ similar to the #1 but is to connect from Potentiometer RK501 output into the Analog amplification boards.  This is another 2 short cables

both the #1 and #2 are “analog interconnect cables”

3/ The female headphones sockets 4.4mm and 3.5mm into the Output of your Amplification board output toward your headphones.

_*If you are experienced with Desktop pieces, You probably already known that each of these interconnect will have the level of influences depending on the materials and construction.*_

Every bit of each influences can bring your DMP-Z1 into another beast like level.  Please keep in mind that I am a tinkerer and I love to squeeze every bit of possible “the best of the designs” to my preferences.  The DMP-Z1 is Marvelous at it core engineering and components implementation, and there are so much more to be had.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 22, 2020)

Amazing @Sonywalkmanuser ! I got it delivered the vibration absorbing feets.  The deep low end extensions really tighten up and cleaned up nicely ! It reveals the deep bass even better!! Compare to the silicone I was using!! I gotta have it  (Sorbothane sheets) for the transformer pads too!


----------



## Sonywalkmanuser (Jan 22, 2020)

Any photos?

I think there's only a few more mods and tweaks to consider but do note that it's going to cost more for little improvements.

Deoxit gold
Audiophile fuses
Audiophile power cords
Audiophile power conditioner
EMI/RFI shielding sheet (you can stick them inside the top and side of the internal chassis and paste them on top of semiconductor chips(those that don't run burning hot)

https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/c/pcb-prototyping/emi-rfi-shielding-materials/shielding-sheets/


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 22, 2020)

I already have solid silver powercord, even the AC socket is Furutech rhodium plated .  The DC output socket is Furutech rhodium Plated too!

I have tried fuses, and conditioners, not a fan of either one

I know these sheets well.  They help some, and could be negative in some other ways

Deoxit....don’t want to get there.

I will use the sorbothane for my transformer pads though.  Thank you for your ideas


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 25, 2020)

I am too lazy to take detailed pictures.  But just to report back, this sorbothane stuff is amazing !!!

what I am doing here is that I slot this sorbothane sheet under the round rubber of the Transformer inside.  This is to dampen the vibration of Transformer !!!!!

The major thing that needs attention is the Rubber sheets which have to stay between the transformer and the Sorbothane sheet.  The reason being is that Rubber can stand the Heat generated by transformer better than sorbothane.

The effects is so very real !!! Bass is more fluid and the inner resolution of it density is observable!!! The fluidity improved across the whole spectrums from low to high.  The trebles gains more resolution on the inner resolutions Too!!

the ability to play accurate pitch and tonal body from DMP Z1 was excellent with battery mode, but in a Discrete PSU, it gets even better!!!  Especially when done right.

The DMP-Z1 with the marvelous engineering deserves the best LPSU out there.  I totally recommend the Sigma 11.  There is only 1 catch as the Sigma 11 has no current limiter.  So the DMP Z1 has to follow a ritual

Turning on:
1/ turn on the DMP Z1
2/ make sure the PSU is plugged in and hooked to the DMP Z1
3/ then turn on the PSU

Idling:

***the DMP Z1 has to be in operational mode.  That means it has to play music otherwise it will switch to idling***. This will trigger both the PSU and the DMP Z1 to simultaneously switching on and off which *can damage both!!!
*
turning off:

1/ I always make sure to Pause the DMP Z1 first
2/ then proceed to turn off the PSU
3/ wait until the DMP Z1 is done switching back to Battery mode
4/ wait until the Light on the PSU is completely off
5/ now you can unplug everything and bring it everywhere you want to

*how to obtain a Sigma 11 PSU ? DIY is one way, the second way is to Contact Tikan or people at DIY forum for inquiries.  Sometimes it is popped up for sale here and there.  But it is best to post a “wanted” thread

the best way to get what you want is to DIY as you can tune and use different components to your liking *


----------



## purk

The LPSU is real guys.  The DMP does sound quite a bit more dynamics with the Sigma 11 power supply.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 25, 2020)

Yes superbly Low noise and discrete regulated with no current limit to handle burst of current on demand.  Excellent for DMP-Z1.  Check it out here for more info


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Hi guys, I've read really mixed reviews with some people saying the Dmp is amazing, while others say it is lackluster 

Does anyone know how it compares to a Chord hugo TT1 or hugo 2. 
Ive also read that it isn't much of an improvement over the wm1z, while others say it is a great improvement.


----------



## Whitigir

ChrisIsAwesome said:


> Hi guys, I've read really mixed reviews with some people saying the Dmp is amazing, while others say it is lackluster
> 
> Does anyone know how it compares to a Chord hugo TT1 or hugo 2.
> Ive also read that it isn't much of an improvement over the wm1z, while others say it is a great improvement.



I rather take DMP-Z1 over Chord Dave, so...that may help answered your question.

It is best to go give it a listen yourself 

DMP-Z1 is anything, but not lack luster or slightly improved over WM1Z....heck , it leaves TA-ZH1ES in the dust


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome (Jan 25, 2020)

That brings me to another confused question 

I have read that it doesn't quite have enough power for he1000 (power hungry planars), yet abyss diana is a recommended pairing. Aren't they both equally hard to drive? I recall the abyss being power hungry when i demo'd
40ohm/91db abyss Di, 35ohm/90db he1k

I'll see if my local store has floor stock for demo.
Thanks


----------



## Damz87

ChrisIsAwesome said:


> That brings me to another confused question
> 
> I have read that it doesn't quite have enough power for he1000 (power hungry planars), yet abyss diana is a recommended pairing. Aren't they both equally hard to drive? I recall the abyss being power hungry when i demo'd
> 40ohm/91db abyss Di, 35ohm/90db he1k
> ...



I bought mine from A2A and they have a demo unit in Kew


----------



## Whitigir

ChrisIsAwesome said:


> That brings me to another confused question
> 
> I have read that it doesn't quite have enough power for he1000 (power hungry planars), yet abyss diana is a recommended pairing. Aren't they both equally hard to drive? I recall the abyss being power hungry when i demo'd
> 40ohm/91db abyss Di, 35ohm/90db he1k
> ...


I recommend it with HD800s, but I don’t know about the rest that you listed up .

I also recommend it with a Stax headphones, but Stax has it own amplifiers


----------



## purk (Jan 25, 2020)

ChrisIsAwesome said:


> That brings me to another confused question
> 
> I have read that it doesn't quite have enough power for he1000 (power hungry planars), yet abyss diana is a recommended pairing. Aren't they both equally hard to drive? I recall the abyss being power hungry when i demo'd
> 40ohm/91db abyss Di, 35ohm/90db he1k
> ...



I think it will do a good job with the HE1000 but not the best.  The HE1000 needs a lot of power to shine, so u may be better off going with the GSX mini or mark ii.

The DMP is a significantly jump over the WM1Z even the modify ones especially with something like the HD800.  The improvement is less with something easier to drive such as custom IEMs.  The DMP is also a notch or two better than the TA-ZH1ES.  Oh and I have all these gears so my impressions are not drawn from a store demo or at headphones meet.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> I think it will do a good job with the HE1000 but not the best.  The HE1000 needs a lot of power to shine, so u may be better off going with the GSX mini or mark ii.
> 
> The DMP is a significantly jump over the WM1Z even the modify ones especially with something like the HD800.  The improvement is less with something easier to drive such as custom IEMs.  The DMP is also a notch or two better than the TA-ZH1ES.  Oh and I have all these gears so my impressions are not drawn from a store demo or at headphones meet.



and that is only DMP-Z1 out of the box, aka with Stock Charger and or battery mode.  The DMP-Z1 transform into another beast that will show it fangs and claws , curves, muscular with an external PSU....depends on the PSU capability.

IMO, DMP-Z1 is an all in one device that has 2 modes. 

*1/ Portability mode:* you can un tether and carry it around with you, plug in a headphones and enjoy music

*2/ Desktop mode:* choose an LPSU for yourself, plug it in, treat it like a desktop all in one system, and you have superb musical fidelity at your finger tips


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

I never liked the Sennheiser range. Stax on the other hand , 009 is godly.


----------



## purk

ChrisIsAwesome said:


> I never liked the Sennheiser range. Stax on the other hand , 009 is godly.


They are indeed magnificent!


----------



## buzzlulu

purk said:


> I think it will do a good job with the HE1000 but not the best.  The HE1000 needs a lot of power to shine, so u may be better off going with the GSX mini or mark ii.
> 
> The DMP is a significantly jump over the WM1Z even the modify ones especially with something like the HD800.  The improvement is less with something easier to drive such as custom IEMs.  The DMP is also a notch or two better than the TA-ZH1ES.  Oh and I have all these gears so my impressions are not drawn from a store demo or at headphones meet.



Interesting comments 
“the improvement is less with something easier to drive”
So with my Utopias (easy to drive) the improvement is less (on the Z1) when comparing to the WM1Z.
I find my Utopias/Axios with 1Z to be SUBLIME.

There is a thread on the Naim forum with several 1Z users (including myself) who all say that when we are ready to retire and chuck our 6 figure Naim systems we will live happily ever after with the 1Z 

TA-ZH1ES - I sold mine.  Very disappointing imho

Sounds like the 1Z will continue to keep me happy

009S/Carbon fronted by my Linn digital front end = END GAME


----------



## meomap

buzzlulu said:


> Interesting comments
> “the improvement is less with something easier to drive”
> So with my Utopias (easy to drive) the improvement is less (on the Z1) when comparing to the WM1Z.
> I find my Utopias/Axios with 1Z to be SUBLIME.
> ...



I would be very happy only with Utopia, 1Z, and ALO CDM tube amp.


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

I haven't seen any of these go up for sale. Very unusual for headfi, they must be good .
The question remains, is it worth twice the price of a Hugo TT1, or selling my sp2000 for. Only a demo will tell. I didn't realize Hugo TT2 has no batteries, so this is not a consideration anymore.


----------



## purk (Jan 25, 2020)

buzzlulu said:


> Interesting comments
> “the improvement is less with something easier to drive”
> So with my Utopias (easy to drive) the improvement is less (on the Z1) when comparing to the WM1Z.
> I find my Utopias/Axios with 1Z to be SUBLIME.
> ...



IMO, the 1Z already has an excellent tonality but it just lacks driving power.  Therefore, something easier to drive like my IER-Z1R already sound plenty good out of the WM1Z.  I used to have the Utopia and I agree that it sounds quite awesome with the 1Z.  I sold the Utopia before owning the DMP, but I suspect that the Utopia will still sound better out the DMP but the improvements may not be as drastic as from the HD800 out of the DMP.  If not for the hefty weight, I would use it more and carry it every where.


----------



## rumina

Whitigir said:


> I am too lazy to take detailed pictures.  But just to report back, this sorbothane stuff is amazing !!!
> 
> what I am doing here is that I slot this sorbothane sheet under the round rubber of the Transformer inside.  This is to dampen the vibration of Transformer !!!!!
> 
> ...



Cool that you tested that. i use also the sigma 11 for my aries femto streamer and another network streamer, a nice psu. think i try this also, have a spare sigma 11 pcb in the attic. may i ask you which transformer you used, when i look at the sony powerbrick with 45va i should be a 20v/2.5a or higher transformer. do you used r8 10k and r10 16k? thanks for the info, well done .


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 26, 2020)

rumina said:


> Cool that you tested that. i use also the sigma 11 for my aries femto streamer and another network streamer, a nice psu. think i try this also, have a spare sigma 11 pcb in the attic. may i ask you which transformer you used, when i look at the sony powerbrick with 45va i should be a 20v/2.5a or higher transformer. do you used r8 10k and r10 16k? thanks for the info, well done .



I built this for a while, but did not post about it, and as a result it had been burned-in for months.

Please be sure that you know how to DIY.  Just a kind reminder that PSU can kill.

this is R3 part number 71-RN55E1001B

this is R10 part number 71-RN60D-F-16K. 

transformer Antek
*AN-0212 - 25VA 12V*


----------



## rumina

thanks for the info, i done a quick measurement, the sony dont take more then 9 watt from the brick, so 25-30va is fine. project list is allready finished @ mouser, like also the vishey resistors.

don't worry, build a lof of amps over the last 30 years, from 1-350 watt  i have some here:
https://www.head-fi.org/gallery/authors/rumina.406591/

hope i can start the t2 mini soon, takes a while over @ head-case


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 26, 2020)

rumina said:


> thanks for the info, i done a quick measurement, the sony dont take more then 9 watt from the brick, so 25-30va is fine. project list is allready finished @ mouser, like also the vishey resistors.
> 
> don't worry, build a lof of amps over the last 30 years, from 1-350 watt  i have some here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/gallery/authors/rumina.406591/
> ...



oh  I didn’t know you were over there too! My apologies .  It is always safety first LOL.  About that mini T2, I am also waiting!  I see that you built AMB previously! Stocking spare boards is also my habit which slowly draining my money away lol....

yes, I love Vishay.  I wonder what chassis you will be putting her in. 

BTW, to make the DC plug, Sony uses Vaio Laptop Plug.  I bought mine off Amazon and spliced into it


----------



## rumina

yes sony with their special plugs but i have a lot of power bricks in the attic, i throw away old gear/recyle but never their power bricks, hope i find the right one, had some sony laptops over the years. otherwhise thanks for the tip.

i have some case left, for the power brick i use a simple one. for the t2 mini i would like a one case design like the dynahi - i have to many silver boxes around .


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 29, 2020)

I just discovered how to use DMP Z1 to streaming online contents at it best.

1/ An adequate LDAC source that has good streaming MQA ...etc , and battery life with good display.  I choose Dx160 from Ibasso.  Bluetooth 5.0 capable

2/ External Linear Power Supply.  I paid attentions that Bluetooth LDAC on battery is depleted quickly and doesn’t sound as good as direct out of the Dx228ex that I has.  Until I have the LPSU in play

3/ Direct source and LDAC as quality

4/ a good router and 5G WiFi

Voila, a portable screen for Tidal streaming toward the DMP Z1 with everything at it best

Picture for illustration

*i has done some many comparisons* both DX220 and Dx160 are all better at streaming toward DMP Z1 as the LDAC is obviously superior to SBC or AAC, and that I believe anyone can observe also on such system.  However, I do opt for Dx160 better as it has more snappy interface, lighter weight and great battery life.


----------



## bmichels

thanks for this elegant solution.   But... I wonder if a "wired" solution will not be even better than a BT solution ?

-->  is it possible to connect the Streaming DAP (or another streaming device) to the Z1 by USB instead of BT ?


----------



## Whitigir

Yes, the DMP Z1 can act as external DAC


----------



## Sonywalkmanuser

Not sure if the lossy LDAC codec is able to provide true high resolution playback but I guess that's the most practical method to get great sound quality.


----------



## Whitigir

Sonywalkmanuser said:


> Not sure if the lossy LDAC codec is able to provide true high resolution playback but I guess that's the most practical method to get great sound quality.



LDAC is only able to do upto 24/96Khz.  I guess a part of why the sound is much better is due to the other features of the DMP-Z1 and not the Bluetooth alone.  Therefore, I do believe @bmichels in saying that a USB connection will be better.

However, due to the DMP-Z1 being Type C and the DAP, Smartphones I have are all Type C, I can not find a good type C OTG yet....I probably need to DIY.  But streaming isn’t my priority, so I don’t really care enough just yet to warrant putting in Labor for that


----------



## Sp12er3

arent there a lot of Type C to Type C cable these days?


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 29, 2020)

Sp12er3 said:


> arent there a lot of Type C to Type C cable these days?



unfortunately, Type C to Type C audiophile grade isn’t easy to find.  A properly done Type C will have 12 wires to connect throughout.  To make it this way, it isn’t easy.....unless doing an OTG to Normal Type C.  I don’t even think there are Properly done Type C to Type C on the market yet.

This will likely be an expensive investigation which I am not going to get into as I don’t need to do so just yet

I do think MoonAudio can make this wire Directional OTG type C to digital Type C


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> unfortunately, Type C to Type C audiophile grade isn’t easy to find.  A properly done Type C will have 12 wires to connect throughout.  To make it this way, it isn’t easy.....unless doing an OTG to Normal Type C.  I don’t even think there are Properly done Type C to Type C on the market yet.
> 
> This will likely be an expensive investigation which I am not going to get into as I don’t need to do so just yet
> 
> I do think MoonAudio can make this wire Directional OTG type C to digital Type C



To be honest, i do not really understand this OTG thing ?  

why a good quality Type C - Type C will not work (At least to try if it better than BT connection ) ?


----------



## Whitigir

I will see if I can find the generic cheap C-C cables but that is still costly lol...and it isn’t on my priority list atm


----------



## Sonywalkmanuser

I think IFI Audio does make Audiophile usb c otg cables.


----------



## Whitigir

Sonywalkmanuser said:


> I think IFI Audio does make Audiophile usb c otg cables.


Good call! And affordable for $15 m gonna grab one


----------



## bmichels

I just tested and got resonably good results with this 12€ Amazone cable conecting my Laptop to my AK1000 . ! (at least good enough to try )


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> I just tested and got resonably good results with this 12€ Amazone cable conecting my Laptop to my AK1000 . ! (at least good enough to try )


Could you try SP1k to external DAC that has usb C ?


----------



## rumina (Jan 29, 2020)

i used different usb-c to usb-c cable with my samsung s10e (and other android smartphone) with my dmp-z1, most cable work fine like this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32996603804.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dpGceP1&af=207464&afref=&cv=0&dp=0%3A%3A207464%3A%3Av030400011133c4aca44b721c4ea8b308ccd039bebffd%3A%3A%3A%3A1580316764&cn=19888&aff_request_id=dd6cc45f2d2c43e397e317f91f227fb3-1580316765109-06606-Y7bAZbY&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1580316765109&sk=Y7bAZbY&aff_trace_key=dd6cc45f2d2c43e397e317f91f227fb3-1580316765109-06606-Y7bAZbY&terminal_id=9231522c1ca54e67becd3160aba429ee

but for streaming i like to use roon, so i first tried different raspberry pis with linux os and roonbridge (before moode audio or rune audio like this build: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2282585). to be honest the result with the raspberry pi platform with different dac was ok but not good, not bad as most smartphone but not realy better.

out of interest i buyed then one time a raspberry pi clone, a orange pi lite 2. but the image they provided was simpy bad, i wanted to made a mediaplayer out of it like kodi etc.

after months i grabbed the orange pi lite 2 again and found that in the meantime a stable image from armbian (armbian.com) exist. i installed this image and then roon bridge arm8 (https://kb.roonlabs.com/LinuxInstall).  now the orange pi worked fine with a small image and to my surprise sounded better the any raspberry i used. i then checked the motherboard and the orange pi lite 2 has a better power distribution then any raspberry pi (more complex and better chips), furthermore a extra usb 3 port with his own chip.

so i build first a portable battery powered portable version and a second battery powered desktop version with his own charger, when running both are battery powered. both have a step up converter and a simply power filter:



these two are better sounding then a smartphone but not quite as good as my pimped aries femto. think this design could perform better with a battery powered TPS7A4700 regulator but like in the picture they cost under 30-50 usd. for a small price this orange pi lite 2 is a great streaming platform. but be warned, the support of this pi clone is minimal, was simply good luck that they perform well for my needs. to be fair, i was a blink away throwing my orange pi lite 2 away .

but back to the dmp-z1, when i stream tidal or my music library via usb to the dmp-z1 sounds nice, nothing you would miss. only when you listen to the same source file local stored on the dmp-z1 you realise this sound simply better, not so detail retrieval or soundstage but local played the music flows more natural and easy - hard to describe. the effect was similar when i used my aries.

for me this is more a example how tricky streaming over different devices is then that the usb is not good with the sony. i used with my big dacs all inputs, different streamer (reg. psu/roon rock via usb, 3 different aries, roku, other linux platforms) - from toshlink, rca, xlr, usb and i2s, results where always different and not constant from device to device, technically i2s with something like a singxer su-6 should be best but not with my denafrips (harsh with the su-6). think main factor is the implenentation of the dac side, my denafrips likes usb best, my old yggdrasil xlr and maybe sony is better over bluetooth.

at the end choosing a good network streamer is a hard bussiness, you spend often a lot of money for a more or less good linux platform, thus it's a good thing to experiment with cheap linux single board computer, you can then choose what servies are running, allways better runing as low servies as possible with your image.


----------



## Whitigir (Jan 29, 2020)

The thing I suspected is that Smartphones and Laptops have fully supported Type C interface....where as DAP are commonly even now a Pseudo-TypeC interfaces, which means it needs external OTG type of cables interfaces

So most of the Laptop and smartphones wont have problems being a digital source by Type C....but the DAP will have problem


----------



## coolhand (Jan 29, 2020)

https://wooaudio.com/accessories/wooaudio-usb-cable

For an easily relocatable on-site streaming to DMP-Z1 solution, I use their 1m OTG C-C cable when using my Xperia 1 (running USB Audio Player Pro) as an end-point renderer for a (Asset UPnP) server.... immediate access to my 10TB library and it functions flawlessly.


----------



## buzzlulu

I started using my iPhone 11 ProMax as a ROON endpoint with my WM1Z.
Interesting post above about USB Audio Player app (of which I am unfamiliar) which has UPnP capabilities paired with an Experia.

Can anything improve upon my iPhone solution which allows me to use streaming apps (Tidal & Qobuz) with my 1Z?

Is there a third party substitute cable which can perform better than the included USB/Walkman cable for checking my iPhone/CCK to the 1Z Walkman - or are they simply digital bits being transferred?


----------



## Rob49

Does anyone think this will come down in price further at some point ?? Presently £ 6.743 on Amazon....i might be tempted below the £6.000 mark ?


----------



## Whitigir

Sony MSRP will not come down in price, but it doesn’t mean dealer who has it laying around somewhere can not sell at lower price, if they wanted to move it bad enough.  Though, I think DMP is flying out the door at many places


----------



## HiFiGuy528

DMP-Z1 is in high demand in the U.S. Sony needs to supply U.S. dealers more inventory.


----------



## LegionWolf

HiFiGuy528 said:


> DMP-Z1 is in high demand in the U.S. Sony needs to supply U.S. dealers more inventory.




Can get from dell.com  

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/son...ayer-256-gb/apd/aa777461/audio?ref=p13n_rv_hp


----------



## Gadget67

Looks like it is readily available from several places at the current list price.


----------



## Infoseeker

CEOs probably put the Sony dmp-z1 as a company expense when ordering from Dell. XD


----------



## paulchiu

Infoseeker said:


> CEOs probably put the Sony dmp-z1 as a company expense when ordering from Dell. XD



I sure will be claiming my DMP-Z1 as doctor prescribed stress relief from travel stress syndrome.


----------



## paulchiu

finally put the Roon Nucleus+ into the mix
Cat9 ethernet into Netgear switch box with Mac Pro and Synology DS918 in the loop
one Samsung 2TB SSD into Roon Nucleus+ with DSD and iTunes files

settings in Sony DMP-Z1 

high gain: off
audio muting off
battery preferred off
DAC filtering selection: Low dispersion short delay
Filtering/gain: slow roll off  Gain: -3db
Sound Setting:
DSEE HX: on
Dynamic normalizer: on
Vinyl Processor: standard (yeah, this does sound nice for my vocals...)

ALSA as player with Roon - lossless path, only up to DSD128 though

Also, for those new to DMP-Z1, my unit never did reach 100% battery since opening the sealed box from Sony.  has been 99% since....


----------



## purk

How do u like your DMP Paul?


----------



## paulchiu

purk said:


> How do u like your DMP Paul?



Still too soon to give a verdict.  But it's definitely not going back!
I have pretty much stopped using the Hugo since the DMP-Z1.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 17, 2020)

paulchiu said:


> Still too soon to give a verdict.  But it's definitely not going back!
> I have pretty much stopped using the Hugo since the DMP-Z1.


DMP Z1 is better than DAVE IMO....leaving Hugo behind is expected .  But I still would like to defense the DAVE.  I think it is very possible and hard to bring the performances out of DAVE unless you spend more on XLR cables and the  digital sources


----------



## purk

I think Dave may have an edge on the DAC department.  Never heard it though.


----------



## paulchiu

purk said:


> I think Dave may have an edge on the DAC department.  Never heard it though.



This is not a verdict on the DAVE, as I have yet to add enhancements to the DAVE (like XLR Vince mentioned above or the Chord Scaler) but in my first 300 hours with the Sony DMP-Z1, I prefer just how inviting/comfortable songs feel through my headphones.  The DAVE can get brutal sometimes with too much sharpening of tones. (here, maybe due seasonal left ear tinnitus due to congestion) The smoothness of the female voice and the fullness of a Jazz ensemble party through a pair of Sony IER-Z1R is superior to what DAVE gives me.  Still, I have only done A & B switching for a few albums, so nothing final.    A comparison that is complete is that the Nagra HD DAC sounds better than the Sony DMP-Z1.  Although not by much on the listenability, just the Swiss piece shows me more details and envelopes me more with clean sound.


----------



## Whitigir

If anyone has DMP Z1 and want to remove volume caps or changing to Japan region for better performances
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/modifying-wm1z-a.856213/post-15488705


----------



## paulchiu

Whitigir said:


> If anyone has DMP Z1 and want to remove volume caps or changing to Japan region for better performances
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/modifying-wm1z-a.856213/post-15488705




Vince, is this similar to changing volume caps on the Sony Walkman NW-WM1Z?


----------



## Whitigir

paulchiu said:


> Vince, is this similar to changing volume caps on the Sony Walkman NW-WM1Z?


Yes, it is the same


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I want to try Japan firmware v1.0 on DMP-Z1. Can someone help with a step-by-step guide on how to change the region?


----------



## Gadget67

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I want to try Japan firmware v1.0 on DMP-Z1. Can someone help with a step-by-step guide on how to change the region?


if you scroll up a few posts there’s a link telling you how to do that.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Gadget67 said:


> if you scroll up a few posts there’s a link telling you how to do that.



I read the post but don't understand it. It would be better if it had screenshots and actual set by step for DMP. I'm also a mac user and Windows is foreign to me. DMP is not cheap and I worry about "bricking" it by screwing up the FW.


----------



## Rob49

At no point did i think about a volume cap on the DMP-Z1. Any owner with the volume cap ?? What's your thought, if so ?


----------



## jirams

Rob49 said:


> At no point did i think about a volume cap on the DMP-Z1. Any owner with the volume cap ?? What's your thought, if so ?


See



15:12 minutes into this video - NO Volume cap claimed by Hi Fi Insider


----------



## Damz87

Switched to Japanese region on my DMP-Z1 (thanks again @Whitigir) - has anyone else done it yet and noticed any sound changes? Mine sounds a little more energetic


----------



## plazmic

raymogi said:


> Of course I have to try it with Youtube right away.
> 
> There is now NO LAG when using USB DAC.
> 
> With BT, I can notice a SUPER TINY bit of lag still.



Is anyone else able to confirm that the 1.02 firmware indeed removes the audio delay when used as a USB DAC with a computer?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

jirams said:


> See
> 
> 
> 
> 15:12 minutes into this video - NO Volume cap claimed by Hi Fi Insider




Correct because DMP-Z1 is not considered to be a portable music player.



plazmic said:


> Is anyone else able to confirm that the 1.02 firmware indeed removes the audio delay when used as a USB DAC with a computer?



No, it does not fix the latency issue but that's not a problem playing music, only noticeable on video.


----------



## Whitigir

Use Bluetooth for videos ? That is what I do on both Walkman or DMP


----------



## Whitigir

Being able to take advantages of Sony proprietary FPGA as a DAC in combination with Velvet Engine Digital Filters on AKM, the DMP Z1 is especially unique !!!  It can also use AKM Purely for DAC purposes as well.  This is like having multiple different DAP built into one


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 31, 2020)

Edited


----------



## audionewbi

hey guys, I wanted to share you guys this interesting battery pack, sort of battery pack.
https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1213130.html


----------



## Whitigir

Well, you can technically make a battery pack for the DMP Z1.  However, not only the battery is something of concern, but the battery management /charging circuit is also playing a role.  It will do in a pinch, and that is why DMP Z1 has battery packs with circuits dedicated for audio.  When building battery, you can switch the function into battery preferred, so it means the DMP own battery get charged up and being depleted slowly to power the device with the external pack being for extra juice

The Beauty of it is the ability to take in LPSU directly and switching by itself automatically

There is a real different between using it own batteries vs LPSU.  That is why it is better to go with LPSU rather than using extra battery packs.  Given that the Sigma 11 can be built so very compact as you have seen the pictures.  It can easily fit into a traveler package with eases for a long road trip, and together with unlimited current, it has no problem to satisfy the demand of charging and operating together.  Then 10 hours alone on DMP, there really is no need for the Extra battery pack


----------



## audionewbi

Do you know if anywhere selling sigma 12. I like to use it with qa361.


----------



## Whitigir

Sigma is a DIY and customizable.  You need to commission one or post a wanted thread at AMB


----------



## LaValentin

Whenever the DMP-Z1 is starting up, have you occasionally noticed the Sony logo disappearing for a moment and than reappearing again instead of being lit continuously? In other words, sometimes you have this black screen blink once during the start up process. Is that normal? I apologise if my question is little bit strange, just would like to know if someone else has experienced this as well.


----------



## Whitigir

I don’t usually turn mine off...but I never paid attention at it while it does it jobs.  But I think it is normal.  It is only abnormal when it doesn’t turn on or is stuck somewhere


----------



## LaValentin

Whitigir said:


> I don’t usually turn mine off...but I never paid attention at it while it does it jobs.  But I think it is normal.  It is only abnormal when it doesn’t turn on or is stuck somewhere



What I am talking about can be seen in this video for instance: 
The odd thing is that this happens like every 5th time you turn it on, but basically its random.
I guess that's just the way it is. 
Thank you for your reply.


----------



## Whitigir

LaValentin said:


> What I am talking about can be seen in this video for instance:
> The odd thing is that this happens like every 5th time you turn it on, but basically its random.
> I guess that's just the way it is.
> Thank you for your reply.



Yeah, it should be normal.  It takes a long time to restart the DMP though, Hence I never stared at it while it does so.  Even when upgrading firmware I couldn’t bare looking at it.  Some other devices or DAP also has it blinking logos too, like Ibasso and Walkman


----------



## purk

@Whitigir 

Could you post how to change the region code on the DMP-Z1 again?  Thanks.


----------



## Whitigir

The DMP Z1 has the ability to output directly from Digital board, which is a Pure Line out, but it needs works


----------



## audionewbi

@whither, are you still happy with z1 purchase?


----------



## Whitigir

audionewbi said:


> @whither, are you still happy with z1 purchase?


Yes that I am


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 6, 2021)

Edited


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> Finally! version 1.01 which I love and adore With the Exception that this is “the Galaxy” with it
> 
> what is so special about this ? Well...the bass! It is actually with more subbass textures and more bloom, a little less in soundstage than 1.02 but this one has a more musical feelings in comparison.  Soundstage has always been good on DMP-Z1, but to me, this bass of 1.01 is ways more desirable



So you have been able to down-grade from 1.02  to  1.01 !?


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> So you have been able to down-grade from 1.02  to  1.01 !?


Yes sir !


----------



## Rob49

audionewbi said:


> @whither, are you still happy with z1 purchase?



I'd ask that question to any owner ? I so wish i could hear one, but i still can't see how you can jusify that outlay ?? I sort of can afford one, but that justification is the stumbling block for me, unfortunately.


----------



## audionewbi

Rob49 said:


> I'd ask that question to any owner ? I so wish i could hear one, but i still can't see how you can jusify that outlay ?? I sort of can afford one, but that justification is the stumbling block for me, unfortunately.


I know what you are saying, however I've been active here long enough to know who to trust and who not to trust. I know which reviewer have taste similar to mine.
That is why whitigir words carry value for me.


----------



## Rob49

audionewbi said:


> I know what you are saying, however I've been active here long enough to know who to trust and who not to trust. I know which reviewer have taste similar to mine.
> That is why whitigir words carry value for me.



I know....i was genuinely asking if others feel the same way too ?....because i want to someone to convince me to make that financial outlay...


----------



## Whitigir

audionewbi said:


> I know what you are saying, however I've been active here long enough to know who to trust and who not to trust. I know which reviewer have taste similar to mine.
> That is why whitigir words carry value for me.




Because DMP-Z1 has the same Sony proprietary IC chip (FPGA) as Walkman WM1A/Z and on top of the additional AK4499EQ Dual.  This is why I was able To tune the Walkman WM1A/Z in references of DMP-Z1.  I also have achieved the Golden Milestones of DMP-Z1, and that is DMP-Z1 Galaxy Firmware. 

Sony FPGA chip can act as either a DSP interface, also a programmable sigma delta and or both.  It is a multibit professor , and in order for 1 bit pure DSD to pass through, it needs an additional Chip that can handle 1 bit info, and on TA-ZH1ES, the choices was to choose an additional FPGA to be programmed as 1bit.  On DMP-Z1, the choices was to go with AK4499EQ.

While The Walkman also has this same FPGA but can not use “DSD Remasterting” feature because the S-Master can not handle 1 bit.  It is Direct Multibit only and that is why only Native DSD is able to play over balanced.  On the TA-ZH1ES, the additional FPGA is handling this 1bit stream and directly feed S-Master with it.  Then on the DMP Z1, and as a different line up of devices, it uses Class A/B IC TPA as amplifications and no S-Master was used.

There are many reasons but the DMP Z1 was built this way because it satisfies many goals:  compact and transportable form, powerful output, DSD Native handling....etc

The DMP Z1 has the Privilege to utilize the Different Sigma Delta Techniques on the same modulators Velvet Engine by AKM, the AK4497EQ and 6 additional Digital filters

Why AK4497EQ ? Because it can do 128Db Dynamic range.  Anything higher than 120Db dynamic range is already beyond Human hearings.  The question here would be “Could Sony squeeze everything out of it?”

By the way, Song only call this Proprietary IC chip as Sony Proprietary DSP IC.  I see it being similar to an FPGA that can be programmed to handle many tasks, so I always related to it as an FPGA.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 1, 2020)

So, in Digital Sound performances, not only the DAC IC is important, and in the case of DMP Z1, it is the AK4497EQ.  What else is important ? The Interfaces.

I discovered how important it is because I was building a desktop system, and an interface can totally ruin and destroy everything.  It is like a shipping couriers.  Imagine that you are having a Puzzle shipped to you in multiple boxes.  Then the couriers lose several of them out of hundreds in total.  Do you think you can have a perfect final puzzle piece ?

The answer is “Impossible”

So, how does information and bit get lost by an interface ? And what is an Digital interface ?

Well, there are a few of General chips being used, and most noticeably are (Xmos and FPGA).  You will see Xillint or Altera or other FPGA and then you have Xmos.  The downside is that all of these were meant to be used in other digital interfaces, such as Autobot and chain manufacturing...etc.  Neither one was built dedicatedly toward Audio processing....and they are noisy.  Noises can change the values of an electrical signals.  Also if using any FPGA, the program has to be calibrated precisely ...unfortunately, it doesn’t matter what Amanero had done...I was never am impressed by it.  This was the main reason why I switched to I2S interfaces on my PC, which loses the ability to output DSD native for my usages, but in the end I could get better performances out of the interfaces

So, what is an digital interfaces ? Because all binary information are just Binary codes.  So in order for Digital Analog Conversion to happen, Sony, Phillips and others companies had long ago created the I2S interfaces.  It is the standard in Digital audio industry and widely is used nowadays.  In order for the Digital info to be received and comprehensible, it has to be I2S signals feeding the DAC chips.  This is where Digital interfaces come in.  Some DAC can take I2S input and some can not.  Therefore USB interfaces and other that are not I2S directly are an additional conversions that pose a risk with many negativities

Why is DMP Z1 so special ?

This Sony Proprietary IC chip as I said, it has been built and designed by Sony, a chip that is dedicated toward Audio performances, to stay as precise and accurate as possible and to minimize noises as much as possible.  It is also so very powerful.  Because it can act as Sigma Delta Modulators together with Being a DSP Interfaces or can act as DSP Interfaces alone.  The ability to act as Sigma Delta Modulators are demonstrated by the features of “DSD Remastering” on TA ZH1ES and DMP Z1

So, If AK4497EQ demands an order of 128 boxes for the puzzles and the couriers never lost any boxes, what do you think happen to the final Puzzle piece ?

Why not AK4499EQ ? Because AK4499EQ first and foremost will not satisfy the long play time on battery juices for the design, and as mentioned technicality as above regarding dynamic range and human hearing

Now, what about other DAC and devices that are using AK4499EQ ? Nothing is wrong with that, to be using newest technologies is going to be the selling point as always.  The questions is

What Digital Interfaces are being used ?  Sony is the only one to be using their proprietary chip.

Because the demands for DSP Interfaces have been surged on, both AKM and ESS are making their own which are not widely used yet.  There are also Black chip from Analog devices being used on Lottoo Gold Touch.  But how many of them that can also act as what Sony Proprietary chip does as stated above and still remain dedicatedly toward Audio performances ?

So the same question again “Are you sure that all of these devices to be able to bring out everything from AK4499EQ?”


----------



## Whitigir

With the DMP Z1 and the way the whole firmware OS, the Walkman OS and it interfaces are hands in hands together.  A more aggressive tuning toward a more aggressive processing steps can squeeze out even more out of it.

DMP Z1 can benefit from modified firmwares too! In wake of that, The Galaxy is born ! Unlike Walkman, there is no categorized Tiers because DMP Z1 is a Titan of a symbol from Sony at the moment.  You can read all about it build quality as Sony engineers are not shy away from their design and implementation languages

With the Galaxy firmware Cranked up, the DMP Z1 can clearly take advantages of AKM4497EQ digital filters features better and being more obvious in alternating Sound characteristics between each filters.  Also when using DSD remastering and Direct Mode, the performances and the tuning of the firmwares take to another level of performances.  All together, if once you thought you were impressed with DMP Z1 and stock firmware, you gotta witness what DMP Z1 can do when cranked up similar to “Pc overclock”


----------



## Whitigir

The usages of PML or Poly Multy Layered Capacitors are everywhere in the music signal chains, and together with the applications of Fine sound resistors everywhere.  This Fine sound resistors are also Sony Proprietary.

Please keep in mind that PML capacitors can only be found in so very little quantities on any other devices.  The reason is that Sony has always had the power of influences to order and fabricate their own designed components in alliances with other manufacturers.  Why is PML so special ? Because unlike Ceramic and Tantalum capacitors, it generates virtually 0 piezoelectric effects which induces errors into the Electrical values and alternate the sound performances.  Ofcourse there are still Ceramic Caps being used, but it is dwelling at places where Power handling is needed.  Or to put it, Sony Engineers implemented you the best of their extends to preserve the Sound signal integrity for Digital Music reproduction purposes on the DMP Z1

The more you look into the DMP Z1, the more you will be Amazed by what had gone into it.

You may think that I am amazed by it hardware before the Sound quality but that is wrong.  I was originally so much against it because of pricing  Because of that I was so not much into dissecting how wonderful of an engineering Marvel that the DMP Z1 is.  Until I could listen to it in CanJam.


----------



## Rob49

Can someone confirm that there is no "pre out" on the DMP-Z1, please ? I enjoy using my TA-ZH1ES via speaker listening & wanted to know if it were possible with the DMP-Z1 ?? Thanks.


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Can someone confirm that there is no "pre out" on the DMP-Z1, please ? I enjoy using my TA-ZH1ES via speaker listening & wanted to know if it were possible with the DMP-Z1 ?? Thanks.



There is no “Line Out” on the DMP Z1.  It is possible to make it to do so, but it would be “Invasive”.  However, using 4.4mm as Pre-Out is still satisfying


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> However, using 4.4mm as Pre-Out is still satisfying



So it is purely for headphone use only ?


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> So it is purely for headphone use only ?


Yes, that it is.  The outputs are only

4.4mm balances phones out
3.5mm single ended phones out
Digital out ? I have not tested

Inputs are only
Digital in
and Power in

With Balanced output, each channel can have 1500mW per channels, that is enough to drive most of any headphones out there


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 1, 2020)

To squeeze every possible performances out of this System.  Excellent time to be spending time with it !! Staying inside and can carry it all around the house with uncompromises sound quality while keeping out noises from both sides

Cables is DIY Neotech newest flagship wires materials 24awg, occ Goldplated and Cryogenically treated, 4.4 pentaconn and Te-Cu Eidolic MMCX with Oyaide audiograge Silver solder

Internally using similar wires for DMP Z1.  Galaxy 1.01


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> To squeeze every possible performances out of this System.  Excellent time to be spending time with it !! Staying inside and can carry it all around the house with uncompromises sound quality while keeping out noises from both sides
> 
> Cables is DIY Neotech newest flagship wires materials 24awg, occ Goldplated and Cryogenically treated, 4.4 pentaconn and Te-Cu Eidolic MMCX with Oyaide audiograge Silver solder
> 
> Internally using similar wires for DMP Z1.  Galaxy 1.01



How big is the sound difference bewtween the TA-ZH1ES and the DMP-Z1. I know you bought the TA when it came out....have you still got the Sony Z1R's ? If so, how are they with the DMP-Z1 ? Should be a match made in heaven...??


----------



## Whitigir

DMP Z1 and MDR Z1R is too much Bass.  I enjoy IER Z1R better with it and I do prefer HD800S as a full-size with DMP Z1.

The DMP is a tier above TA ZH1ES.


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> DMP Z1 and MDR Z1R is too much Bass.  I enjoy IER Z1R better with it and I do prefer HD800S as a full-size with DMP Z1.
> 
> The DMP is a tier above TA ZH1ES.



Interesting.....i love my MDR-Z1R's....can't tolerate in ears and never heard the HD800S.

Is it a £5.000 + tier ??....i know you'll very likely say yes ?


----------



## Whitigir

DMP Z1 is the engineering marvelous from Sony.  If you love Sony products, then I don’t know how you could tolerate not having it.  Unless you never give it a listen, and I would advise people to stay away from it until their pocket is ready 
What do you think Chord Dave is worth ? IMO, from test listening, I preferred DMP, hence why I bought it instead of Dave

whatever tier $$ that is


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> DMP Z1 is the engineering marvelous from Sony.  If you love Sony products, then I don’t know how you could tolerate not having it.  Unless you never give it a listen, and I would advise people to stay away from it until their pocket is ready
> What do you think Chord Dave is worth ? IMO, from test listening, I preferred DMP, hence why I bought it instead of Dave
> 
> whatever tier $$ that is



I think the Chord Dave is quite a tier $ wise ! ? I can't listen to a Z1 beforehand, so it would have to be a blind buy purchase and i love my Sony TA-Z1HES - MDR - Z1R combo, virtually all my stuff is Sony products...i also own the Sony HAP-S1...which sounds great through my TA....it's true, you can't really go wrong with Sony's Hi Res audio line....it's just a decision now to pull the trigger ?? I think if it was nearer the £5.000 mark i would have very likely pulled the trigger by now. It is a lifetime product, like the TA & Z1R's if you look after them. So moneywise it probably is worth it....it's just justifying it, when there's more important things to purchase....


----------



## Whitigir

I agree about other essential things to purchase.  Who knows when will this come to pass ?

From my technical standpoints, I have not seen any devices that is built the way that DMP Z1 is.  You could read all that posts above

But then again, I listenEd to the DMP and got pulled toward it performances.  Before I tried and understand all it marvelous engineering behind it


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> I agree about other essential things to purchase.  Who knows when will this come to pass ?
> 
> From my technical standpoints, I have not seen any devices that is built the way that DMP Z1 is.  You could read all that posts above
> 
> But then again, I listenEd to the DMP and got pulled toward it performances.  Before I tried and understand all it marvelous engineering behind it



Do you like TOTO @Whitigir ??.....my favourite band.....and Michael Jackson....my favourite artist of all time....can you convince me further to buy ?? ( That's if you do have any of their music ?? )


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Do you like TOTO @Whitigir ??.....my favourite band.....and Michael Jackson....my favourite artist of all time....can you convince me further to buy ?? ( That's if you do have any of their music ?? )


Of course I do, and don’t worry about genres.  The DMP-Z1 with 6 digital filters and plethora of other DSP are friendly to all genres.  You just need a long time to spend on analyzing toward which one works out the best for your genres.


----------



## audionewbi

I'm split with getting Maratnz SA-10 and this. Both have amazing DSD processing.


----------



## pompom

I know that the Z1 is a wonderful device "as it is" but...* I will not buy this until they offer a version with Qoubuz or Tidal Streaming*, and if possible also an iPad playback app + a real fixed line out. ( Having to use a connected phone/DAP to stream is ridicolous... )

And if SONY really think thet WiFi is a no-no, then they can at least offer *wired ethernet so that we can stream* (and also use an iPad playback to complement the ridicolously small screen) *when we are at home*, using the SONY as a Home source for Headphone or... external amp (so a real line out will also be needed).

So... may be one day I will buy a i-Z1 or Z2...

And, please Whitigir, don't blame this for this iconoclast thinking...


----------



## bmichels (Apr 2, 2020)

Watch out brave man, for saying loud what many think, you will be banned from this forum ...


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 2, 2020)

You Can stream with phone and LDAC, or Usb cables.  If you are talking about pure performances then nothing outperform stored files .


----------



## audionewbi

As much as I love streaming, to get it right we need lots of shielding.


----------



## phonomat




----------



## Rob49 (Apr 2, 2020)

Whitigir said:


> Of course I do, and don’t worry about genres.  The DMP-Z1 with 6 digital filters and plethora of other DSP are friendly to all genres.  You just need a long time to spend on analyzing toward which one works out the best for your genres.



Watched your YouTube review, enjoyed it, but wanted you to be quiet to hear the "Sax" ! lol


----------



## bmichels (Apr 2, 2020)

phonomat said:


>



indeed @phonomat, you are right.

This one bellow is in fact what I am looking for : Transportable and battery operated, BIG tiltable screen, up to 8 Tb SSD, Wifi, streaming, iPad app, fixed Line-out and variable line-out, SE and BAL Headphone out, digital-in, Digital-out.  

.... * all this in 2015, 5 years ago !*

--> It is really too bad A&K never updated this transportable server to reduce it's size and improve it's sound quality... like they regulary did with their DAPs ! 

`


----------



## Whitigir

It is just a matter of practicality VS sound quality .  How do you carry that cube around with you or be categorized as “Carriable” ?  Let’s put sound quality aside first


----------



## mozilla77

Whitigir said:


> Finally! version 1.01 which I love and adore With the Exception that this is “the Galaxy” with it
> 
> what is so special about this ? Well...the bass! It is actually with more subbass textures and more bloom, a little less in soundstage than 1.02 but this one has a more musical feelings in comparison.  Soundstage has always been good on DMP-Z1, but to me, this bass of 1.01 is ways more desirable


Hi Whitigir, could you share the Galaxy 1.01J  firmware for DMP-Z1? I already change it to Japanese region and still on 1.02.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## nanaholic

bmichels said:


> indeed @phonomat, you are right.
> 
> This one bellow is in fact what I am looking for : Transportable and battery operated, BIG tiltable screen, up to 8 Tb SSD, Wifi, streaming, iPad app, fixed Line-out and variable line-out, SE and BAL Headphone out, digital-in, Digital-out.
> 
> ...



This is just slapping together a bunch of off the shelf components and calling it a day, I don't see what is so impressive about this except if you really must have everything in a single package.

If I need something stationary and does streaming with a good interface, I'll buy an iPad mini, a Roon Nucleus and a Hugo 2 TT and call it a day, no need for this piece of ugly mess.


----------



## Whitigir

nanaholic said:


> This is just slapping together a bunch of off the shelf components and calling it a day, I don't see what is so impressive about this except if you really must have everything in a single package.
> 
> If I need something stationary and does streaming with a good interface, I'll buy an iPad mini, a Roon Nucleus and a Hugo 2 TT and call it a day, no need for this piece of ugly mess.


Totally agreed!


----------



## nanaholic (Apr 3, 2020)

That ergonomics of the AK500N server looks really poorly thought out, it's such as mess. What I don't get is it wants to be a network music server, build in DAC/amplifier player, AND a personal headphone player? Huh? All the of the possible usage scenario clashes with each other.

As a headphone player, the tall design of this device looks like an ergonomic nightmare to use on a computer desk unlike the low sitting DMP-Z1. With the screen on top and inclining upwards the AK500N looks like it should be placed on a low side table next to a comfy sofa or la-z-boy incliner when used as a headphone player, but then I'll be wasting all the balance audio outputs at the back, because obviously the balance and RCA output is for this to be use in front of me connected to bookshelf or floor speakers as the DAC/amp combo source no? Okay so now in order to use it as a DAC/amp combo in an AV rack system setup and not caring about the headphone outputs, then why would I want it to sit on top of the shelf just so I can access the screen while taking up valuable space? Now that I have a turntable, top shelf space is always going to be reserved for my turntable! Also as a previous tube amp owner I can see tube amp owners needing that top shelf to give their tall tubes room to breath. So that cube design is a waste of space and rather it should blend into a normal component cabinet with the other AV components and go for a short but wide foot print. If I'm using it ONLY as a music server and even forgetting about the screen, I can for sure build something better myself as a music file server, or if I don't feel like it, just pay for a Roon Nucleus. And I can throw in a pair of KEF LS50W or LSX and I'll be up and running and kicking ass in sound in no time for a much simpler streaming capable speaker setup.

Even if given the niche scenario where I want to be enjoying ALL of these features in this device depending on my mood, I'll be moving it around a lot, but 12kg to move around? No thanks.

Also 12k US for this? All with off the shelf components and not a single custom audio parts? Come on....

The only thing I can see as being somewhat useful is the build in disk drive to rip CDs which would be a convenience for adding music directly onto the server.

This thing is like one of those comically oversized Swiss army knife that has everything on it but looks impossible to use well. Whereas the DMP-Z1 is a specialty knife that is limited in usage scenarios but excels at the job it is suppose to do.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 3, 2020)

I still don’t get why Stretch over Superbly sound quality on the very last drops of performances % but....then.....Streaming ?

Hell, when talking about the very last drop of sweats, and we literally be talking in cables and Powercord and so on.

The next important thing is how the Playback interfaces, the app, and the algorithms goes together with the OS, the firmwares, the Hardware, and everything else right ?
Then why be using something that was Universally designed for other OS ? For example Tidal was built for all Android OS including a Samsung or Xiaomi ? With any revealing gears and high end systems, you can always easily hear the differences from a streaming services on the same album and track in comparison to a local file storage.

I meant if you don’t take Firmware, cables and OS being so serious, then I understand why you would want those Streaming features.  In this case, then you should not buy DMP Z1 by any meanings

I do agree with @nanaholic that if I was to have a desktop PC, I would have built it instead of that AK....and in fact I did build one and still have one


----------



## nanaholic

Also if you need a audiophile class digital network music file server that supports streaming to sit on a rack to compliment and modernise your existing analogue component system, Sony wants you to buy their HAP-Z1ES, which was released in 2013/2014 and hasn't been replaced yet. So Sony already has something which predates that AK device which does most of the same thing, plus has Sony's own FPGA DSD remaster engine and DSEE technology onboard. I also don't think the AV team is going to be happy with the Walkman team cannibalising their market share in such a way either.

The compliant is always that the DMP-Z1 doesn't natively support streaming, but why would I want it to support streaming and open up all the disadvantages of including some sort of Android system inside of the DMP-Z1 (you need to install those official Android apps, else you ain't gonna get access to those offline mode), increase the battery consumption due to Android, worry even more about EMI due to now need to have a WiFi transciever, when just connecting an iPad to the DMP-Z1 and using it in USB DAC mode works just as well if not better because you will always have the latest version of the app on iOS and about 5 guaranteed years of OS support from Apple? It's also asking for your device to be made obsolete sooner than it needs to be if you use Android and that's the last thing I want to happen to a 8k device.  

The DMP-Z1 is a device that is designed to be a personal music play back device that plays music files locally at the best quality possible in a single package and does this with a laser sharp focus, anything else added to it is just noise that gets in the way of its usage.


----------



## Whitigir

Sony paid as much attention to even the grounding and it designs, and already mentioned that if not carefully implemented, the sound could compromise it inner resolutions in trade off for better background silent.  The team had to conduct many trials and errors to carry out the best of both worlds on the DMP Z1.
So my question will remain, why squeeze every last bit of performances but then use streaming instead of local storage ? There are plenty of other devices out there to do just that


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 31, 2020)

Edited, no longer available


----------



## Der1Sascha

Hello,

does DAC operation work for you without a power supply being connected? So only with pure battery operation? In my DAC operation on Windows PC without a connected power supply, there are always dropouts.
Could someone check that out?

Thanks a lot


----------



## Damz87

I have been using the galaxy firmware for a couple of weeks now thanks to @Whitigir . I’m still assessing the sound, but I can confirm that the difference is noticeable and definitely worth checking out if you haven’t yet


----------



## Mindstorms

you cant embed this for 1A/Z right? I really liked 1.01 and 1.02 i reviewed both


----------



## briant4pres

nanaholic said:


> That ergonomics of the AK500N server looks really poorly thought out, it's such as mess. What I don't get is it wants to be a network music server, build in DAC/amplifier player, AND a personal headphone player? Huh? All the of the possible usage scenario clashes with each other.
> 
> As a headphone player, the tall design of this device looks like an ergonomic nightmare to use on a computer desk unlike the low sitting DMP-Z1. With the screen on top and inclining upwards the AK500N looks like it should be placed on a low side table next to a comfy sofa or la-z-boy incliner when used as a headphone player, but then I'll be wasting all the balance audio outputs at the back, because obviously the balance and RCA output is for this to be use in front of me connected to bookshelf or floor speakers as the DAC/amp combo source no? Okay so now in order to use it as a DAC/amp combo in an AV rack system setup and not caring about the headphone outputs, then why would I want it to sit on top of the shelf just so I can access the screen while taking up valuable space? Now that I have a turntable, top shelf space is always going to be reserved for my turntable! Also as a previous tube amp owner I can see tube amp owners needing that top shelf to give their tall tubes room to breath. So that cube design is a waste of space and rather it should blend into a normal component cabinet with the other AV components and go for a short but wide foot print. If I'm using it ONLY as a music server and even forgetting about the screen, I can for sure build something better myself as a music file server, or if I don't feel like it, just pay for a Roon Nucleus. And I can throw in a pair of KEF LS50W or LSX and I'll be up and running and kicking ass in sound in no time for a much simpler streaming capable speaker setup.
> 
> ...




You realize dmp z1 dac uses 1.50 amp chips from ti and 15 dollar dac ICs from akm...


----------



## Whitigir

briant4pres said:


> You realize dmp z1 dac uses 1.50 amp chips from ti and 15 dollar dac ICs from akm...


So, what is your point ? the chip alone will sing for you ? and Other devices using the same chips will sound the same ?


----------



## nanaholic (Apr 11, 2020)

briant4pres said:


> You realize dmp z1 dac uses 1.50 amp chips from ti and 15 dollar dac ICs from akm...



So does the AK500N - it even uses a Cirus Logic chip which is probably the least regarded DAC chip maker out of the big DAC chip guys (everyone goes for ESS Sabre, AKM or Bur Brown, Circus Logic is poo-pooed upon because LOL Apple uses it at one time for their iPods and we know iPods are not "serious audiophile equipment" once upon a time).

Yet inside the DMP-Z1 there are numerous Sony only components that were specially customised, like that big analogue dial RK501 made by Alps that was further customised by Sony - so something which normally cost 800 dollars a piece alone because of its material and construction yet Sony requested for even finer material which further increased the cost, special super tight tolerance resistors that has less than 1% varience which are carefully matched, Sony's own lead-free gold-infused solder formula, Sony's collaboration with Kimber Kable etc, heck even the 5 battery packs inside the DMP-Z1 are made and constructed internally by Sony themselves, all to make sure the analogue signal path is as clean and distortion free as possible. If the AK500N has any kind of that in-house material R&D stuff to show off, they are more than welcome to boost about it in their PR material, yet they don't and we know AK is not a company that is shy about boosting about its product's construction, which really tells you everything you need to know.

Sony pulled a couple of components off the shelf, but the vast majority of the other components inside the DMP-Z1 are either customised or entirely Sony developed or fabricated from scratch. So, do you have a better point to make, or you are just one of those who look at two pieces of the puzzle and thinks you know what the entire thing is?


----------



## paulchiu

OK folks, this may be the best headphone yet for the Sony DMP-Z1.  (in terms of imaging) The Audeze LCD-i4 just disappears with the music out of the DMP-Z1.  About the nearest thing to small/medium sized room speakers.  Convincing out of head sound field with jazz and classical, even vocals are less in front of the forehead and more like near my Apple computer monitor.  I am really loving the imaging with this pairing.  Yes, there is much less bass than the Utopia or Abyss, but those cannot disappear like this Audeze in ear.  I feel so free, almost forgot about world troubles for the hours I was enjoying the music.

Hoping you all out there are safe right now.


----------



## bmichels

paulchiu said:


> OK folks, this may be the best headphone yet for the Sony DMP-Z1.  (in terms of imaging) The Audeze LCD-i4 just disappears with the music out of the DMP-Z1.  About the nearest thing to small/medium sized room speakers.  Convincing out of head sound field with jazz and classical, even vocals are less in front of the forehead and more like near my Apple computer monitor.  I am really loving the imaging with this pairing.  Yes, there is much less bass than the Utopia or Abyss, but those cannot disappear like this Audeze in ear.  I feel so free, almost forgot about world troubles for the hours I was enjoying the music.
> 
> Hoping you all out there are safe right now.


very interesting.  I will try to listen to Audeze LCD-i4.  Thanks to share.


----------



## Rob49

It's gone a bit quiet on this thread. Are owners too busy listening to their DMP-Z1's especially with lockdown ??


----------



## Damz87

Rob49 said:


> It's gone a bit quiet on this thread. Are owners too busy listening to their DMP-Z1's especially with lockdown ??



I got in about 4 hours of pure listening bliss this weekend with the DMP-Z1


----------



## Rob49

Damz87 said:


> I got in about 4 hours of pure listening bliss this weekend with the DMP-Z1



NO ! Don't do that to me !! LOL


----------



## bmichels

Damz87 said:


> I got in about 4 hours of pure listening bliss this weekend with the DMP-Z1



congratulation.   What Headphone or IEM you prefer to use with the DMP-Z1 ?


----------



## Damz87

bmichels said:


> congratulation.   What Headphone or IEM you prefer to use with the DMP-Z1 ?



I’m more of an IEM listener and I usually rotate between the IER-Z1R, IER-M9 & qdc Anole VX. For me, the IER-Z1R & DMP-Z1 combo is like audio heaven


----------



## Rob49

Damz87 said:


> I’m more of an IEM listener and I usually rotate between the IER-Z1R, IER-M9 & qdc Anole VX. For me, the IER-Z1R & DMP-Z1 combo is like audio heaven



How are you getting on with your Axios cu cable for your Z1R's ? Have i recalled that correctly ?? ( Or confused you with someone else, without checking ! )


----------



## Damz87

Rob49 said:


> How are you getting on with your Axios cu cable for your Z1R's ? Have i recalled that correctly ?? ( Or confused you with someone else, without checking ! )



It’s due to arrive tomorrow  will keep you posted!


----------



## Rob49

Damz87 said:


> It’s due to arrive tomorrow  will keep you posted!



I didn't get completely confused then ! lol.....looking forward to your impressions....


----------



## Sp12er3

theres 2 people that said they're picking the Axios, the other guy's the one that has got them


----------



## Rob49

Sp12er3 said:


> theres 2 people that said they're picking the Axios, the other guy's the one that has got them



I couldn't be bothered to check. lol


----------



## Fsilva (Apr 30, 2020)

Anyone looking for that special DMP sale?
Less than 5k!

https://www.supersonido.es/p/sony-dmp-z1


----------



## Whitigir

Fsilva said:


> Anyone looking for that specia DMP sale?
> Less than 5k!
> 
> https://www.supersonido.es/p/sony-dmp-z1


Oh woaaaaa!!!!!


----------



## kp297

Does anyone use DMP with a NAS via iPad as source? Any iPad NAS streaming apps support DSD? Thanks for your consideration.


----------



## Rob49

Fsilva said:


> Anyone looking for that special DMP sale?
> Less than 5k!
> 
> https://www.supersonido.es/p/sony-dmp-z1



Very, very tempting ! ( Had a private message from a forum member about supersonido, not long ago. ) Has anyone else ordered from them ? Off the top of my head, i assume voltage would be different ?? I'm in the U.K. Would this be a problem ??


----------



## phonomat

Fsilva said:


> Anyone looking for that special DMP sale?
> Less than 5k!
> 
> https://www.supersonido.es/p/sony-dmp-z1


Thanks for the heads-up! Immediately ordered, no remorse so far ...


----------



## Damz87

Rob49 said:


> Very, very tempting ! ( Had a private message from a forum member about supersonido, not long ago. ) Has anyone else ordered from them ? Off the top of my head, i assume voltage would be different ?? I'm in the U.K. Would this be a problem ??



The PSU’s are universal


----------



## nanaholic

kp297 said:


> Does anyone use DMP with a NAS via iPad as source? Any iPad NAS streaming apps support DSD? Thanks for your consideration.



I don't usually do it but I know I can stream DSD via Roon on my iPad and output to the DMP.


----------



## Rob49

phonomat said:


> Thanks for the heads-up! Immediately ordered, no remorse so far ...



Where are you based, if you don't mind me asking ?? ( Anyone purchased from these guys, in the U.K. ? )




Damz87 said:


> The PSU’s are universal
> 
> Thanks.....what do i do now....?? LOL


----------



## Rob49

Fsilva said:


> Anyone looking for that special DMP sale?
> Less than 5k!
> 
> https://www.supersonido.es/p/sony-dmp-z1



Thanks for this.....just done a live U.K. pound conversion and it works out to £4.109. 11p precisely.....then i guess their's customs charges....which i would have no idea ??....but surely still a bargain !! ??


----------



## Rob49

Trying to register on supersonido. It's asking for DNI ?? What does this mean ?? It's surely something obvious ! ??


----------



## phonomat

Rob49 said:


> Trying to register on supersonido. It's asking for DNI ?? What does this mean ?? It's surely something obvious ! ??


That would be your ID card number.

I'm in Germany, ordering process went smoothly, international shipping is €40,-, but yeah, _definitely_ a bargain.


----------



## Rob49

phonomat said:


> That would be your ID card number.
> 
> I'm in Germany, ordering process went smoothly, international shipping is €40,-, but yeah, _definitely_ a bargain.



Thanks....i'd just googled DNI. It appears it's just for those in Spain, so i typed in N/A and it accepted that and now at the payment details page.....to fill in my card details....and i honestly don't know what to do !! ?? It's such a good price.....WHAT DO I DO !! ?? Do i go ahead....?? HELP !!!


----------



## phonomat (May 7, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> Thanks....i'd just googled DNI. It appears it's just for those in Spain, so i typed in N/A and it accepted that and now at the payment details page.....to fill in my card details....and i honestly don't know what to do !! ?? It's such a good price.....WHAT DO I DO !! ?? Do i go ahead....?? HELP !!!


Can't help you there, mate. I know I wouldn't buy sth. like this on a whim or just because it's a good price. I made up my mind about it quite some time ago and have been looking for an opportunity for a while. I'd have been willing to pay up to €6000,- for it, that's the limit I'd set myself. So if I actually receive it, I'll be a happy man. But your circumstances can be different, of course.

Edit: Also, my birthday is coming up, so there's that.


----------



## Rob49 (May 1, 2020)

phonomat said:


> Can't help you there, mate. I know I wouldn't buy sth. like this on a whim or just because it's a good price. I made up my mind about it quite some time ago and have been looking for an opportunity for a while. I'd have bern willing to pay up to €6000,- for it, that's the limit I'd set myself. So if I actually receive it, I'll be a happy man. But your circumstances can be different, of course.
> 
> Edit: Also, my birthday is coming up, so there's that.



Yes, in agreement with you & i had been waiting for a good price. I read so much positive stuff on here & also some that say it isn't worth the 8K as @Damz87 indicated....but at this price it must be a bargain.....for me, the intial worry is buying from abroad & if there were any problems with the need to return the unit for any reason ?? ( It's not my birthday ! lol ) Decisions ! Decisions !.....when i wasn't expecting this opportunity....

Also, i would expect a delivery delay, with the Corona Virus, situation, can't imagine i'd receive in 2 - 3 days ??


----------



## phonomat

Rob49 said:


> Yes, in agreement with you & i had been waiting for a good price. I read so much positive stuff on here & also some that say it isn't worth the 8K as @Damz87 indicated....but at this price it must be a bargain.....for me, the intial worry is buying from abroad & if there were any problems with the need to return the unit for any reason ?? ( It's not my birthday ! lol ) Decisions ! Decisions !.....when i wasn't expecting this opportunity....
> 
> Also, i would expect a delivery delay, with the Corona Virus, situation, can't imagine i'd receive in 2 - 3 days ??


Yeah, it says 24 to 48 h, which serms pretty quick, but the seller seems legit, and I don't really care when I get it, I'm not in a hurry; I mean, when I got out of bed this morning, I didn't even know I'd buy it, lol.
Let us kmow how it goes.


----------



## Rob49

phonomat said:


> Yeah, it says 24 to 48 h, which serms pretty quick, but the seller seems legit, and I don't really care when I get it, I'm not in a hurry; I mean, when I got out of bed this morning, I didn't even know I'd buy it, lol.
> Let us kmow how it goes.



Will do.....let me know too....i can see that i will pull the trigger sometime this afternoon....??.....i need DMP-Z1 owners to convince me...more...


----------



## Damz87

At that price it’s worth it 

what I meant in my comment on the TA thread is that you can get very close to the DMP sound with the TA, at a much cheaper price. So from a rational (non-audiophile ) point of view, the DMP-Z1 isn’t worth it the $8k price tag. But, we all know that this hobby is completely irrational and we pay crazy amounts of money for those slight improvements  and you will get an improvement from the DMP. Plus it’s portable!


----------



## Rob49

Damz87 said:


> At that price it’s worth it
> 
> what I meant in my comment on the TA thread is that you can get very close to the DMP sound with the TA, at a much cheaper price. So from a rational (non-audiophile ) point of view, the DMP-Z1 isn’t worth it the $8k price tag. But, we all know that this hobby is completely irrational and we pay crazy amounts of money for those slight improvements  and you will get an improvement from the DMP. Plus it’s portable!



As i think you are aware @Damz87 i have the TA / Sony MDR-Z1 combo & i wouldn't sell them, but i can't stop thinking i'd love to hear the DMP-Z1 & i feel i'm missing a very good opportunity here, if i don't take it......you didn't listen to any MJ then ! ??   

Yes, in agreement....i mulled over for years, literally, "Can i spend so much on the TA" ?? Then i did....didn't regret it at all....then quite sometime later, "Could i justify buying the Z1R's ??.....eventually caved in...don't regret that, at all.....you see a pattern developing here....?


----------



## Damz87

Rob49 said:


> As i think you are aware @Damz87 i have the TA / Sony MDR-Z1 combo & i wouldn't sell them, but i can't stop thinking i'd love to hear the DMP-Z1 & i feel i'm missing a very good opportunity here, if i don't take it......you didn't listen to any MJ then ! ??
> 
> Yes, in agreement....i mulled over for years, literally, "Can i spend so much on the TA" ?? Then i did....didn't regret it at all....then quite sometime later, "Could i justify buying the Z1R's ??.....eventually caved in...don't regret that, at all.....you see a pattern developing here....?



Haha, I haven’t yet listened to MJ but I will for sure. But, if you get the DMP, you can hear MJ for yourself anyway?! 

I would probably sell the TA if it weren’t for the pre-out function. Love the TA sound with speakers


----------



## Rob49

Damz87 said:


> Haha, I haven’t yet listened to MJ but I will for sure. But, if you get the DMP, you can hear MJ for yourself anyway?!
> 
> I would probably sell the TA if it weren’t for the pre-out function. Love the TA sound with speakers



THIS, is the reason i'd NEVER part with my TA....with pre-out, speaker function, just simply suberb.....you're just trying to get me to pull that trigger.....and i'm pretty close to it...


----------



## Whitigir

The reason why DMP Z1 has no Pure Line Out is that Sony engineers just want it to dedicate to 1 single specific job

to drive headphones while minimizing the noises

So, anything additional between signals line and amp boards will have the potentials to introduce noises....

anyways, there are Nodes and Pads on the Board to make Line out from DMP Z1....by modifications LoL


----------



## briant4pres

thats in euros dude


----------



## Rob49

briant4pres said:


> thats in euros dude



I think we're all well aware....thanks !


----------



## Fsilva

Just to ease any concerns regarding supersonido, i´ve bought stuff from them in the past without any issues!
Basically any shop or dealer can make the promotions with these prices just by cutting the profit margin...i´ve been buying high end stuff from dealers in Europe with prices way below the pvp...so it´s just a matter of always looking for the best deal...and in this case supersonido has the best price!
Not that i care since the DMP doesn´t suit my needs, since i mostly use my studio monitors, headphones only at night.. 
Only shared the link for you guy´s that were looking for the best price!


----------



## nanaholic

Whitigir said:


> The reason why DMP Z1 has no Pure Line Out is that Sony engineers just want it to dedicate to 1 single specific job
> 
> to drive headphones while minimizing the noises
> 
> ...



Also every audiophile will claim that the sound of a system is the DAC+amp, and a Line Out is taking the signal from the DAC while bypassing the amp.

So when you say you want a Line Out in the DMP-Z1 is like saying you like the sound of the DMP-Z1, while also removing an essential part of what created that sound in the first place, it doesn't make sense and is contradictory.


----------



## Rob49

nanaholic said:


> Also every audiophile will claim that the sound of a system is the DAC+amp, and a Line Out is taking the signal from the DAC while bypassing the amp.
> 
> So when you say you want a Line Out in the DMP-Z1 is like saying you like the sound of the DMP-Z1, while also removing an essential part of what created that sound in the first place, it doesn't make sense and is contradictory.



I'm still debating whether to take the opportunity to purchase the DMP-Z1, with the above excellent price.....what i hope is to replicate....is the same resolution / quality of sound i get from my TA - pre-out / speaker system. Would you say the DMP-Z1 is like having speakers "in your head", so to speak ! ??
There's times just lately, when i feel that i don't always think "My TA / MDR-Z1R's don't sound so great today" ??.....i don't know if that's down to my mood, or what i'm actually listening to ?? Do you ever think like that about the DMP-Z1 ??....i.e. "This doesn't sound so good today" ??


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> I'm still debating whether to take the opportunity to purchase the DMP-Z1, with the above excellent price.....what i hope is to replicate....is the same resolution / quality of sound i get from my TA - pre-out / speaker system. Would you say the DMP-Z1 is like having speakers "in your head", so to speak ! ??
> There's times just lately, when i feel that i don't always think "My TA / MDR-Z1R's don't sound so great today" ??.....i don't know if that's down to my mood, or what i'm actually listening to ?? Do you ever think like that about the DMP-Z1 ??....i.e. "This doesn't sound so good today" ??


Your symptoms is diagnosed to be “upgradatis”

that means you are simply get used to your gears, and now is itching to find something news.  It doesn’t always have to be an upgrade, any side-grade will do, but you need new toys

will DMP-Z1 really sound that good ? It sounds better than TA to my experiences, how much better and will it be worth it ? That is upto you to decide

Do I ever think about “my DMP isn’t so good today ?” Yes, I do and heck....even my stereos gives me that feeling, and it is normal “upgradatis” stuff....however, there are no side-grade to DMP kinds....let alone upgrades.  I don’t see any other company to be able to build something of the DMP caliber anytime soon .... do you ?


----------



## phonomat

Price is back up at 7499,- ...


----------



## nanaholic

Rob49 said:


> I'm still debating whether to take the opportunity to purchase the DMP-Z1, with the above excellent price.....what i hope is to replicate....is the same resolution / quality of sound i get from my TA - pre-out / speaker system. Would you say the DMP-Z1 is like having speakers "in your head", so to speak ! ??
> There's times just lately, when i feel that i don't always think "My TA / MDR-Z1R's don't sound so great today" ??.....i don't know if that's down to my mood, or what i'm actually listening to ?? Do you ever think like that about the DMP-Z1 ??....i.e. "This doesn't sound so good today" ??



If you want speaker-like experience, you have to get speakers.
Headphones and speakers are two different things, there's a physical limit to how much "space" headphones can create, and a DAC is not going to help in any of that regard.


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Your symptoms is diagnosed to be “upgradatis”
> 
> that means you are simply get used to your gears, and now is itching to find something news.  It doesn’t always have to be an upgrade, any side-grade will do, but you need new toys
> 
> ...



I think i must be suffering from that ! ?.....but i blame ALL the owners, like yourself, filling me with "must hear" thoughts !  



phonomat said:


> Price is back up at 7499,- ...



That's a shame, perhaps puts my decision on hold....i knew i'd regret it, not ordering yesterday.....i'll see how you get on my friend....and hopefully they will have another reduction sometime ??



nanaholic said:


> If you want speaker-like experience, you have to get speakers.
> Headphones and speakers are two different things, there's a physical limit to how much "space" headphones can create, and a DAC is not going to help in any of that regard.



Yes, i think i'm imagining the impossible ! ( but i think one owner did post a "speaker like in the head experience"....or i've imagined it ! ??


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> I think i must be suffering from that ! ?.....but i blame ALL the owners, like yourself, filling me with "must hear" thoughts !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who ? There is no such thing as headphones with speakers like experiences lol!....even a nearfield will bring the soundstage beyond any heapdhones imaginations.....details retrieval’s aside though


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Who ? There is no such thing as headphones with speakers like experiences lol!....even a nearfield will bring the soundstage beyond any heapdhones imaginations.....details retrieval’s aside though



I can't recall and i do have a condition that affects cognitive function, so i possibly got it wrong, or the wording wrong ??....may have been @coolhand post, but again i could be wrong, again ! ( & apologies to @coolhand if i am ! ? )

I know....i just wanted to get that kind of feeling....i've had the "i haven't heard anything this good with my TA / MDR-Z1R's....but like you say, i'm probably just suffering from "upgradatis".....just WANT to hear it ! After all the positive feedback from owners...


----------



## Rob49

I think what i'm trying to say is....i've got the "speaker sound", that i'm totally happy with.....and if i eventually go ahead with the purchase of a DMP-Z1, i just want the same outcome, that this is the best headphone experience i could have...


----------



## Whitigir

I would take care of that upgradatis first before worrying about anything else LOL!


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> I would take care of that upgradatis first before worrying about anything else LOL!



You're the MASTER OF "UPGRADATIS" !


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> You're the MASTER OF "UPGRADATIS" !


Sadly True! It is a thing that I usually do in my corner =/, and nowadays I have an iPad too....


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> and nowadays I have an iPad too....



Now that's also something on my to buy list....but not as important as a DMP-Z1 !


----------



## purk

DMP-Z1 x 2 ....courtesy of @Whitigir


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> DMP-Z1 x 2 ....courtesy of @Whitigir



What's going on here then ! ??


----------



## mrtim6

Clearly it’s a case of golden knob madness 😁


----------



## rtjoa

purk said:


> DMP-Z1 x 2 ....courtesy of @Whitigir


Looking forward for your review mod vs standard DMP


----------



## purk (May 5, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> What's going on here then ! ??


One is stock and another has the wiring mod done to the internal wiring between boards.  Sony did use a thick gauge Kimber cable for the headphones jack wiring but the rest are just ordinary OFC wires.....which is really not cutting it for such a device.  I am sad to say that my stock DMP doesn’t quite measure up to @Whitigir DMP.  Man....I may just have to join the dark side once again.


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> One is stock and another has the wiring mod done to the internal wiring between boards.  Sony did use a thick gauge Kimber cable for the headphones jack wiring but the rest are just ordinary OFC wires.....which is really not cutting it for such a device.  I am sad to say that my stock DMP doesn’t quite measure up to @Whitigir DMP.  Man....I may just have to join the dark side once again.



Perhaps @Whitigir should be an advisor to Sony then ??


----------



## kp297 (May 5, 2020)

Can @purk or @Whitigir post comparison of the sound? Also, how does one do the mod? Is this a paid service offered like the WM1Z mod? Or entirely DIY?

Edit: This is insane dedication, congrats!


----------



## Whitigir (May 5, 2020)

The mods could be done via DIY, but I am hesitant to put up the process as i am not sure how many can tackle the job.  It is quiet hard from trying to reuse the 10 contact terminals for 4 OFC cables.  Soldering and upgrading those are the tidiest in any devices.  The only place I know that offered similar modifications would be “cable creator“.

these 4 OFC while is shielded, but is regular grade OFC with crimped on contacts.  I upgraded them and soldered them instead


Rob49 said:


> Perhaps @Whitigir should be an advisor to Sony then ??


Nah! Sony engineers are beyond many capable companies out there.....their produced products may be a lot different than the real Prototypes from the engineers....they are more like what you would call a “watered down” versions.  It makes a lot of senses when a company have to be hanging on in order to keep producing (reliability, future releases, pricing, margin...etc...)


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> One is stock and another has the wiring mod done to the internal wiring between boards.  Sony did use a thick gauge Kimber cable for the headphones jack wiring but the rest are just ordinary OFC wires.....which is really not cutting it for such a device.  I am sad to say that my stock DMP doesn’t quite measure up to @Whitigir DMP.  Man....I may just have to join the dark side once again.



Just wanted to ask, are you disappointed with the DMP-Z1....or have you been influenced by @Whitigir 's mod ??


----------



## kp297

Just pulled the trigger on the DMPZ1! Couldn’t be more excited. Will post pics soon


----------



## Rob49

phonomat said:


> Thanks for the heads-up! Immediately ordered, no remorse so far ...



Hi....just thought i'd ask to see if your DMP -Z1 has been dispatched ?


----------



## phonomat

Rob49 said:


> Hi....just thought i'd ask to see if your DMP -Z1 has been dispatched ?


Yes, it has indeed! Got a message this morning from TNT International that it's on its way, but delayed for presumably one day, so apparently it was scheduled to arrive today. I'm not in a hurry anyway, as I won't unpack it until my birthday, which is another couple of days away, but it's good to know that it's getting here.


----------



## Rob49

phonomat said:


> Yes, it has indeed! Got a message this morning from TNT International that it's on its way, but delayed for presumably one day, so apparently it was scheduled to arrive today. I'm not in a hurry anyway, as I won't unpack it until my birthday, which is another couple of days away, but it's good to know that it's getting here.



Pleased to hear....and not too long to wait, hopefully....perhaps it will arrive on your birthday ? Looking forward to your impressions....enjoy it !


----------



## kp297

Home sweet home! Woooooo!


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> Home sweet home! Woooooo!



Congrats !....impressions ! impressions ! impressions !....as soon as you can !   ( Great pic !  )


----------



## purk (May 10, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> Just wanted to ask, are you disappointed with the DMP-Z1....or have you been influenced by @Whitigir 's mod ??


I really enjoy the stock DMP-Z1 but it has a tendency to sound a little closed in and with just a tad too much emphasis on the mid-bass compared to the very best amplifiers in my system.   What @Whitigir has done on the firmware side as well as the wiring modification have really elevated the DMP-Z1 higher.  His modification enhance both the low bass, width & depth of soundstaging while increase the sense of macro dynamic - so the DMP does slam a little harder.  The mod DMP is also slightly bit more transparent while not at the expense of warmth and musicality.  So it is still one smooth performer but just a little better all around.  The improvement is not a night and day over stock but a meaningful improvements to my ears.

A stock DMP is a great choice if you want a total transportable solution with the sound quality of really good separates system.  What do I mean by a really good separates?  I think something like a GSX mini or GSX MKII level of amplification paring up with a really good $2000 DAC such as a Matrix X-Sabre Pro plus $500 Audioquest Water analog with high quality USB digital cable (mine is silver/gold cable made for me by @Whitigir).  I do feel that an amplifier such as my ECP Ravenswood & L3, and Audio-Technica HA5050H with same setup do perform at a noticeably higher level and they should be given their individual price tags.  The mod DMP doesn't quite reach that level of sound quality - those system have greater sense of impact but the overall fluidity and musicality of the mod DMP are pretty much even par.  Yes, I am super impressed by @Whitigir's work.  He is quite a trailblazer and quite a great friend to boot!.  If you can't already tell.....I'm also a firm believer in cable upgrades.


----------



## Rob49

Thanks for feedback @purk The fact is, i doubt there's many on here who would even consider / know how to mod a DMP-Z1, other than @Whitigir ?... especially given the cost of it, even if you were capable of doing it ?? Us mere mortal's can only hope to ever own just a stock DMP-Z1 & it's stock impressions i'm more interested in, for reasons stated, but still insight to what has been achieved, or can be.


----------



## purk

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for feedback @purk The fact is, i doubt there's many on here who would even consider / know how to mod a DMP-Z1, other than @Whitigir ?... especially given the cost of it, even if you were capable of doing it ?? Us mere mortal's can only hope to ever own just a stock DMP-Z1 & it's stock impressions i'm more interested in, for reasons stated, but still insight to what has been achieved, or can be.



I think the stock DMP is very impressive.  Shop around for better deals and try negotiate price with the dealer - yes it can be done.  The cost of admission for the DMP is expensive but if you tally up the total cost of a comparable separate components with similar level of sound quality of the DMP.....you will be spending up around $6K anyway.  But don’t forget that the DMP is transportable and can be run on battery for 8 hours.  It is less clutter on your desk and can be moved from and to any room in your house.  You can take it along while on vacation or even back and forth to your work.  This level of sound quality is only reserved for carefully mix and match separate components cost $5-$6k  but Sony is first to make it transportable.  To me that’s an ultimate and dream solution for us Headfiers!


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> I think the stock DMP is very impressive.  Shop around for better deals and try negotiate price with the dealer - yes it can be done.  The cost of admission for the DMP is expensive but if you tally up the total cost of a comparable separate components with similar level of sound quality of the DMP.....you will be spending up around $6K anyway.  But don’t forget that the DMP is transportable and can be run on battery for 8 hours.  It is less clutter on your desk and can be moved from and to any room in your house.  You can take it along while on vacation or even back and forth to your work.  This level of sound quality is only reserved for carefully mix and match separate components cost $5-$6k  but Sony is first to make it transportable.  To me that’s an ultimate and dream solution for us Headfiers!



I dithered on the Supersonido offer last week, partly due to importing, even though a great price, the best price there must have been so far ?? If that price comes up again i may go for it. ( I have moved my TA around my home & taken it to my friends home, not that i make an habit of moving it now. It stays in my cabinet - and i'd guess the weight is similar with the DMP ?? Not that that's important to me, being basically housebound and have no more than two listening positions. )


----------



## purk

Rob49 said:


> I dithered on the Supersonido offer last week, partly due to importing, even though a great price, the best price there must have been so far ?? If that price comes up again i may go for it. ( I have moved my TA around my home & taken it to my friends home, not that i make an habit of moving it now. It stays in my cabinet - and i'd guess the weight is similar with the DMP ?? Not that that's important to me, being basically housebound and have no more than two listening positions. )



The TA-ZH1ES is a good deal at a current used price.  It is very versatile but I do find the DMP at a different class all together.  Contact Jason at the SourceAV and see if they can cut u a deal.  The DMP has a smaller footprint but it is just as hefty of a unit.


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> The TA-ZH1ES is a good deal at a current used price.  It is very versatile but I do find the DMP at a different class all together.  Contact Jason at the SourceAV and see if they can cut u a deal.  The DMP has a smaller footprint but it is just as hefty of a unit.



Yes, i love the versatility of the TA-ZH1ES. I use it so much, throughout each and everyday. I could contact Jason & see but i can't imagine the cost of the import duties to the U.K. or even if they ship to the U.K. ?? ( & i was concerned importing from Spain, which of course is much closer, in global terms ! )


----------



## purk

Rob49 said:


> Yes, i love the versatility of the TA-ZH1ES. I use it so much, throughout each and everyday. I could contact Jason & see but i can't imagine the cost of the import duties to the U.K. or even if they ship to the U.K. ?? ( & i was concerned importing from Spain, which of course is much closer, in global terms ! )



Oh I thought you are located in the USA....but yes I do enjoy the ZH1ES as well but prefer to listen to the DMP.  I sure wish that the battery carries is guaranteed for 10 years or so.


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> Oh I thought you are located in the USA....but yes I do enjoy the ZH1ES as well but prefer to listen to the DMP.  I sure wish that the battery carries is guaranteed for 10 years or so.



( I kind of wish i did....having Boris Johnson...but you have your own Narcissist, too ! ) 

Silly question but does using mains power all the time, save on battery & does it affect performance, using mains power ? I think i'd be inclined to use mains power as much as possible...??


----------



## purk (May 10, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> ( I kind of wish i did....having Boris Johnson...but you have your own Narcissist, too ! )
> 
> Silly question but does using mains power all the time, save on battery & does it affect performance, using mains power ? I think i'd be inclined to use mains power as much as possible...??



Run off the battery does yield better sound quality....not a night and day different but the improvement is there.  With external Sigma LPSU that @Whitigir built me, running off the main is better with greater sense of dynamics.  The stock switching PSU is good but not great in my book.  Other DMP owners please give your opinion of the stock power supply.


----------



## kp297 (May 10, 2020)

So I'm giving some first impressions, although I've had the DMP less than 2 days. I would like to thank Alan at the SourceAV for incredible service, I can’t wait to do business again in the future.

Okay. So, you can get a Rolex for this price. This isn’t your typical audio gear, there’s an element of luxury baked in. However, and I don’t say this lightly, I believe this device executes the idea of ‘perfection’ better than anything else. The sound, build quality, and usability are perfect. Like a few on this thread, my previous amp/DAC was a TAZH1ES. Excellent gear (that has a remote HINT Sony), and IMHO the best all in one I’ve come across after trying many devices at the Source and CanJam.

However last year, I was browsing some equipment at the SourceAV (during an event for the VOCE), and came across the DMPZ1 paired with an Empyrean. Some ten months after listening to it, I still remember the experience.

After taking delivery and using the DMP with my Z1R’s, I wonder, is this an alternative to the Orpheus? Or a baby Orpheus? Now, I know, the Orpheus is the top dog and will likely remain so for a long time. But, here I am, listening to my favorite music on a media device which has the care, attention and love poured into it like the Orpheus. Now, the Orpheus has the electrostatic headphone component which the DMP is missing. However, we have the flexibility of using whatever headphones we wish. The MDR Z1R’s are one of my favorite headphones of all time. I’ve listened to the Orpheus HE1, and while it’s a technical masterpiece (that can’t be matched), I can’t listen to it for more than 15 minutes before needing to take a break. Not all of us like the absolute detail of electrostatic gear. Estat gear forces us to use open back gear (for now), and such gear doesn’t work with non-estat gear.

With the DMP, we can use Abyss Diana, HD800, Stellia, Z1R, Empyrean etc. Closed back, open back, planar, dynamic driver or IEMS. Top range headphones are becoming more efficient, and the DMP is well suited for the future. I love choice and innovation. Does the DMP provide that sense of ‘perfection’ the Orpheus gave me? Does the DMP leverage new technologies to deliver a flexible audio experience? Will I treasure the DMP for years to come as my reference desktop gear?

For me, the answer is yes.

Edit: full sound impressions will arrive later in the week, however I generally agree with what’s already been posted by fellow owners


----------



## Damz87

Noticed some significant sound quality improvements on my DMP lately. I'd say I'm on approx 250 hours of use now. This thing sounds incredible! I'm sure a modded one by @Whitigir would sound unbelievable! I'm happy with my stock one though for now


----------



## Damz87

And here’s a setup pic I shared over on the Z1R thread  MDR-Z1R / Kimber Axios Cu / DMP-Z1


----------



## phonomat

Mine arrived today, just in time for my birthday tomorrow.  That's what I call serendipity.

Thanks again for the tip, @Fsilva, you must be an angel sent from the heavens.


----------



## Rob49

phonomat said:


> Mine arrived today, just in time for my birthday tomorrow.  That's what I call serendipity.
> 
> Thanks again for the tip, @Fsilva, you must be an angel sent from the heavens.



I've been thinking today, when is your birthday...& you post with this exciting news ! ( I SO REGRET not placing the order now...thinking it would last longer...but i'm hoping Supersonido have the offer again....at 4.699 euro's. )

Are you tempted to try out before your birthday ?? I know i wouldn't be able to wait !! Enjoy your DMP....looking forward to impressions....and have a great Birthday, tomorrow...


----------



## phonomat

Rob49 said:


> I've been thinking today, when is your birthday...& you post with this exciting news ! ( I SO REGRET not placing the order now...thinking it would last longer...but i'm hoping Supersonido have the offer again....at 4.699 euro's. )
> 
> Are you tempted to try out before your birthday ?? I know i wouldn't be able to wait !! Enjoy your DMP....looking forward to impressions....and have a great Birthday, tomorrow...


Just 2 1/2 hours to go ... 

Which reminds me, it's time to prepare an SD card with my test tracks. Getting excited now ...


----------



## Rob49

phonomat said:


> Just 2 1/2 hours to go ...
> 
> Which reminds me, it's time to prepare an SD card with my test tracks. Getting excited now ...



So being one hour behind you....i may get an impression before i go to bed....??....i can stay up a bit later, if need be....?? lol.....i'm SO envious, now !!


----------



## phonomat

Rob49 said:


> So being one hour behind you....i may get an impression before i go to bed....??....i can stay up a bit later, if need be....?? lol.....i'm SO envious, now !!


Haha, don't hold your breath, I don"t think I'll post any impressions tonight.
Let's see how long this thing keeps me up, lol.


----------



## kp297

For DMP owners: Do you change the AC power setting to run on battery priority? I thinking about preserving battery life vs running on clean power.


----------



## Whitigir

kp297 said:


> For DMP owners: Do you change the AC power setting to run on battery priority? I thinking about preserving battery life vs running on clean power.


I use external linear PSU, and it is an improvement over battery, so I always have it on AC priority


----------



## kp297

Whitigir said:


> I use external linear PSU, and it is an improvement over battery, so I always have it on AC priority



I assume a decent one off Amazon will suffice, or do you recommend a specific model/Brand?


----------



## Whitigir

kp297 said:


> I assume a decent one off Amazon will suffice, or do you recommend a specific model/Brand?


I do not know of any Linear regulated PSU off the amazon.  I think I recommended a couple previously in the past, you may try the “search” function.....but the best is to custom made one


----------



## kp297

Whitigir said:


> I do not know of any Linear regulated PSU off the amazon.  I think I recommended a couple previously in the past, you may try the “search” function.....but the best is to custom made one



Thanks! FYI I was referring to Topping P50 Linear Power Supply for Topping D50/D50s/DX3 Pro/A50 110V-240V (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VPP255D/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_esBUEb0BBARZJ


----------



## Rob49

phonomat said:


> Haha, don't hold your breath, I don"t think I'll post any impressions tonight.
> Let's see how long this thing keeps me up, lol.



I know if it were me....i'd be posting something....even if it was just one word ! lol



Whitigir said:


> I use external linear PSU, and it is an improvement over battery, so I always have it on AC priority



@Whitigir you can't answer this question like everyone has, or can have a "external linear PSU"...i'm assuming this refers to your mod ??


----------



## Whitigir (May 11, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> I know if it were me....i'd be posting something....even if it was just one word ! lol
> 
> 
> 
> @Whitigir you can't answer this question like everyone has, or can have a "external linear PSU"...i'm assuming this refers to your mod ??


I don’t know what you meant ? Why can I or can I not answer the question ?
This is the External Linear Power Supply unit that’s I posted a while ago.  The middle unit





kp297 said:


> Thanks! FYI I was referring to Topping P50 Linear Power Supply for Topping D50/D50s/DX3 Pro/A50 110V-240V (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VPP255D/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_esBUEb0BBARZJ


This will not work as it has only 15V....the DMP is 19.5VDC
Again, I am not aware of any readily available LPSU from Amazon that can match DMP Z1, unless you can customize it somehow, or DIY


----------



## kp297

Whitigir said:


> I don’t know what you meant ? Why can I or can I not answer the question ?
> This is the External Linear Power Supply unit that’s I posted a while ago.  The middle unit
> 
> 
> ...



thanks Whitigir, I appreciate your patience! I will not go down this road of LPSU then. Time for my favorite part, listening to the music. Cheers 🍻


----------



## Whitigir (May 11, 2020)

My answer was to directly to @kp297

1/ wall power by Sony stock is mediocre.  So battery preferred should be priority
2/ @kp297 wants to preserve the batteries, and wonder if he could have kept it on AC preferred mode ?

My answer is that I don’t care about batteries, what I care is sound quality. The battery preferred mode should be the best there is for any Stock unit. *Unless* you can have a good External LPSU made, then AC preferred mode is the best there is.  @purk has already confirmed it

In which case, if you have a good LPSU and AC prefer mode, you also preserve the battery packs and having the better quality too


----------



## Whitigir

kp297 said:


> thanks Whitigir, I appreciate your patience! I will not go down this road of LPSU then. Time for my favorite part, listening to the music. Cheers 🍻


I did post a couple LPSU that will work with DMP Z1 *which you can buy*.....I forgot what they were.  You should use “search” function to look it up


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> I don’t know what you meant ? Why can I or can I not answer the question ?
> This is the External Linear Power Supply unit that’s I posted a while ago.  The middle unit
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't say you couldn't answer the question @Whitigir My point was, correct me if i'm wrong & apologies if i am, but wasn't @kp297 referring to the stock power supply & whether it's best to use this, saving on battery usage ??


----------



## kp297 (May 11, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> I didn't say you couldn't answer the question @Whitigir My point was, correct me if i'm wrong & apologies if i am, but wasn't @kp297 referring to the stock power supply & whether it's best to use this, saving on battery usage ??



👋 I was asking this:

The DMP Z1 out of the box prefers wall power when plugged in. However running off batteries is the whole point of the DMP design. When running off batteries all the time, this leads to more charge/discharge cycles which can shorten battery life. My initial question was, should we stick with wall power? If we don’t use wall power, how much sound improvement is there using battery and how does constant battery use impact battery life span.

Whitigir has mentioned using a LPSU provides best experience, and this also prevents usage of battery which in turn increases life span of batteries. He has mentioned on this forum there are some off the shelf units we can use. I will not be building my own, I prefer to purchase one. I am scouring the forum for his posts to find a suitable one.

cheers


----------



## Whitigir (May 11, 2020)

kp297 said:


> 👋 I was asking this:
> 
> The DMP Z1 out of the box prefers wall power when plugged in. However running off batteries is the whole point of the DMP design. When running off batteries all the time, this leads to more charge/discharge cycles which can shorten battery life. My initial question was, should we stick with wall power? If we don’t use wall power, how much sound improvement is there using battery and how does constant battery use impact battery life span.
> 
> ...


HDPlex has a 400W LPSU that I also uses for my PC, which also has 19V outlet that was *measured and tested by me*, and it will work with DMP Z1.  All you need is a plug adapter .  The one in DMP Z1 is Sony laptop DC plug

Here is the link

It will come with the Cables ready but with regular DC plug, you need to find the adapter toward Sony Laptop from Amazon like this one


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> 👋 I was asking this:
> 
> The DMP Z1 out of the box prefers wall power when plugged in. However running off batteries is the whole point of the DMP design. When running off batteries all the time, this leads to more charge/discharge cycles which can shorten battery life. My initial question was, should we stick with wall power? If we don’t use wall power, how much sound improvement is there using battery and how does constant battery use impact battery life span.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I interpreted your question correctly & it's a question i would be asking too. I wasn't aware that using the LPSU, ( like @Whitigir ) - who does know what he is talking about, as we all know....i was just politely pointing out this won't be feasable for everyone ??....and if i recall correctly he also said it is dangerous, if you're don't know what you're doing ! ?? ) will save on battery use, but logically thinking, that should be so !


----------



## Rob49

Oh !!! In all the excitement of LPSU....i missed the midnight deadline to wish  @phonomat a Happy Birthday.....and how is that listening coming along....?? No need for you to go to bed !! lol


----------



## Fsilva

phonomat said:


> Mine arrived today, just in time for my birthday tomorrow.  That's what I call serendipity.
> 
> Thanks again for the tip, @Fsilva, you must be an angel sent from the heavens.


Sorry Sir, no angel here 
Just a concerned citizen, that is always looking for the best deal, and since everyone on this thread was expecting the best deal...
Enjoy your birthday gift!!


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Thanks. I interpreted your question correctly & it's a question i would be asking too. I wasn't aware that using the LPSU, ( like @Whitigir ) - who does know what he is talking about, as we all know....i was just politely pointing out this won't be feasable for everyone ??....and if i recall correctly he also said it is dangerous, if you're don't know what you're doing ! ?? ) will save on battery use, but logically thinking, that should be so !


That is correct, _wrong voltage input or reversed polarity will damage your device_.

in which I would recommend that you better know what you are doing.  

It should be pretty straight forward if you buy that HDPlex as I linked, and to make sure, you should have a voltmeter handy to measure the voltage and identify the polarity that should match your stock charger.  While the unit I have is measured and identified to be working with DMP out of the box, with only an adapter at the plug, I won’t be so sure that HDplex may not change up the polarity as these units are customizable.

To avoid the confusion, when you place order at HDplex, you can send an email with your Sony plug pictures on the polarity and voltage requirement toward HDPlex, and ask for the compatibility.  However, I would ask that you have a handy voltmeter in the closet to make sure


----------



## mrtim6

IMHO I respectfully disagree with KP297 on the sound comparison between the DMP and the Orpheus. I found the Orpheus on a completely different tier in terms of sound quality, sound stage, bass impact, transparency, mids and treble. The DMP despite being an excellent quality device, honestly sounded Meh in comparison sonically. I’m not surprised, as they are worlds apart in pricing and the DMP is an all in one solution, where as with the Orpheus I could Change the source from high end SACD player (German made, I forgot the brand) to my Walkman.


----------



## purk

Agreed with @Whitigir on all counts regarding the sound quality with an upgraded power supply.  I prefer the sound quality of the DMP on the battery over the stock PSU as well.


----------



## phonomat (May 12, 2020)

mrtim6 said:


> IMHO I respectfully disagree with KP297 on the sound comparison between the DMP and the Orpheus. I found the Orpheus on a completely different tier in terms of sound quality, sound stage, bass impact, transparency, mids and treble. The DMP despite being an excellent quality device, honestly sounded Meh in comparison sonically. I’m not surprised, as they are worlds apart in pricing and the DMP is an all in one solution, where as with the Orpheus I could Change the source from high end SACD player (German made, I forgot the brand) to my Walkman.


Hm, I must say I'm with @kp297 on this one. I've heard the Orpheus twice, and both times I was thinking, well, this is just another headphone. Was not impressed at all. At the third opportunity, I didn't even bother. To be fair, I don't think it is _meant_ to wow you on a cursory listen, and oftentimes the things with the biggest wow factor just end up getting on your nerves in the end while you stick with the "growers". Also both times were under show conditions which is not comparable with listening to your own music at home, but anyway, it just left me cold.

The DMP-Z1 on the other hand ... All I can say at the moment is that I've never heard music presented this way. It's really unlike everything I've ever heard. Note that this is not necessarily positive. I  mean, this thing has made short work of some of my most beloved tunes. Entire songs that might suffer from a lackluster production I wasn't even aware of beforehand have completely fallen apart under its scrutiny, rendered virtually unlistenable -- harsh, untight, instruments all over the place. I listened for two or three hours last night, and there was a moment when I had the revelation that for me it's not about the technical prowess, it's entirely about the music. The hunt for the best sound has become a sport for some of us, and it's easy to fall into this mindset. And it's absolutely okay if you do, I think it's just not my way. I will always love my favorite tunes, no matter if I hear them on some sort of megabuck system or streamed on a crappy mono speaker, because of the memories, the situations, the people I've shared them with. 

Then again, Björk, Dead Can Dance or Sigur Ròs never sounded this good. Ethereal, unearthly, otherworldly. Just now, I was playing Alva Noto's cover version of "A Forest" by The Cure.



I'm not exaggerating when I say my jaw dropped. I literally sat there open-mouthed like an imbecile for minutes. It was one of those situations where you cannot believe that what you're hearing (that sub-bass!) is coming out of such small things (in this case DMP-Z1 and IER-Z1R). What a huuuge sound. I can't imagine someone hearing this and not being touched to their core by the experience. 
It's incredible what difference a really black background makes. In the best moments, it's like you're standing in a room in pitch-black darkness and someone is painting with light around you, colors that bloom and then vanish again in complete blackness. For me, high-end has always been very much about separation, basically taking a lump of sound and dissecting it into distinct elements, surrounding them with air and assigning them a position in a three-dimensional space. But sometimes this can be taken too far, and I think this sort of dissection might in fact be detrimental to the impact of certain songs that might profit from just this "wall of sound" effect. So over the course of the coming weeks, I will have to see how my own music collection fares with the DMP-Z1, how it will treat all of my Redbook files and vinyl rips. Only a small portion of my music is in hi-res; it's an increasing number, but I have thousands of CD's and records with lots and lots of pop and electronic music that I want to continue to enjoy, and if the DMP-Z1 should turn out to be too ruthless towards them, well, lets just say I know where my allegiance lies. If 40 % of my music sounds stellar and 60 % terrible, that obviously will not suffice. It's funny, in a way I almost feel like I'm only just coming to terms with what true high-end sound really is, and it definitely takes some getting used to. There have been moments with the DMP-Z1 that were intense to the point of being overwhelming and dizzying. It's not so much ear fatigue as mind fatigue, like it's too much to digest. But this is all very interesting, and I'm curious where it will take me. (At the moment, I'm not sure what I'm even getting at with these incoherent ramblings. Sorry for the stream of consciousness, maybe I shouldn't have listened while typing. ) 

I guess what I want to say is this: @Rob49, there is absolutely no need to be "jelly". Nobody needs something like the DMP-Z1, or at least I guess that's true for me. It's overkill, and it's most certainly decadent. Music does not have to sound as good as it does at the best moments to be enjoyed. A true love for music is something that money can't buy. Music does not cost the world either, and the older I get, the more often I find myself turning towards the songs and tracks that have accompanied me all my life anyway. Do I want them to sound good? Sure I do, but sometimes good is good enough. I really do think that this is an item for those who have everything else. If money is no issue, then go ahead and buy one. If best performance is your ultimate goal, if you see it more as a sport, then buy one and tweak the hell out of it. I don't think that ultimately it will increase your enjoyment of the music; instead you might just end up listening to the gear, and I think a lot of this is just compensation. That is one more thing I'll have to evaluate in the coming weeks. At the moment, this very piece of gear often sounds so spectacular that I'm absolutely floored. The thing is, I don't want to listen to the gear.
Or maybe it's just the midlife crisis talking. Excuse the rambling, everyone. And enjoy the music.


----------



## Rob49

phonomat said:


> Hm, I must say I'm with @kp297 on this one. I've heard the Orpheus twice, and both times I was thinking, well, this is just another headphone. Was not impressed at all. At the third opportunity, I didn't even bother. To be fair, I don't think it is _meant_ to wow you on a cursory listen, and oftentimes the things with the biggest wow factor just end up getting on your nerves in the end while you stick with the "growers". Also both times were under show conditions which is not comparable with listening to your own music at home, but anyway, it just left me cold.
> 
> The DMP-Z1 on the other hand ... All I can say at the moment is that I've never heard music presented this way. It's really unlike everything I've ever heard. Note that this is not necessarily positive. I  mean, this thing has made short work of some of my most beloved tunes. Entire songs that might suffer from a lackluster production I wasn't even aware of beforehand have completely fallen apart under its scrutiny, rendered virtually unlistenable -- harsh, untight, instruments all over the place. I listened for two or three hours last night, and there was a moment when I had the revelation that for me it's not about the technical prowess, it's entirely about the music. The hunt for the best sound has become a sport for some of us, and it's easy to fall into this mindset. And it's absolutely okay if you do, I think it's just not my way. I will always love my favorite tunes, no matter if I hear them on some sort of megabuck system or streamed on a crappy mono speaker, because of the memories, the situations, the people I've shared them with.
> 
> ...




That's a really interesting write up @phonomat & firstly can i say, that i hope you've had a really enjoyable birthday !

Reading your first impressions, i pick up excitement & confusion, possible doubt, even possible regret ??... at the same time, amazement. I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts, as you listen more.....i'm still not sure what you mean by "jelly" ?? Whether that's positive to say, "I'd go ahead & buy this"....or "you don't necessarily need it" - that's it's a luxury ??
I'm not at all put off by what you've written, infact i'm more intrigued & excited, withthe thought of one day owning one ? I bought my Sony MDR-Z1R's & my TA-ZH1ES during the last 1 -2 years, i love them, don'tregret buying them at all....but just lately i've felt, at times, "Am i enjoying my headphonelistening as much" ?? I'm just concerned if i went to the expense of the DMP & had that same feeling later on down the line....if i do buy one, i'm looking to be amazed everytime i listen to it....and you appear to be saying you're not feeling completely that at present ?? As you indicate, quality of recording's, some fantastically produced music & some not so fantastic....& i'm sure the DMP can't turn a bad recording into a good one, no matter how Hi Res, it may be ! ??

I really look forward to further impressions, from yourself and others, whether new owners or old....& i still regret at this point, not completeing "checkout", last week !

Enjoy !


----------



## kp297 (May 12, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> That's a really interesting write up @phonomat & firstly can i say, that i hope you've had a really enjoyable birthday !
> 
> Reading your first impressions, i pick up excitement & confusion, possible doubt, even possible regret ??... at the same time, amazement. I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts, as you listen more.....i'm still not sure what you mean by "jelly" ?? Whether that's positive to say, "I'd go ahead & buy this"....or "you don't necessarily need it" - that's it's a luxury ??
> I'm not at all put off by what you've written, infact i'm more intrigued & excited, withthe thought of one day owning one ? I bought my Sony MDR-Z1R's & my TA-ZH1ES during the last 1 -2 years, i love them, don'tregret buying them at all....but just lately i've felt, at times, "Am i enjoying my headphonelistening as much" ?? I'm just concerned if i went to the expense of the DMP & had that same feeling later on down the line....if i do buy one, i'm looking to be amazed everytime i listen to it....and you appear to be saying you're not feeling completely that at present ?? As you indicate, quality of recording's, some fantastically produced music & some not so fantastic....& i'm sure the DMP can't turn a bad recording into a good one, no matter how Hi Res, it may be ! ??
> ...



If I was in your position, I would get the IER Z1R’s to complement the MDR’s. Then get the DMP Z1. Here’s a brief write up I wrote earlier today for an audio enthusiast who asked me about the MDR vs IER. 
Apologies if off topic from DMP, however in my (albeit weak haha) defense the IER Z1R is a frequent pairing for the DMP.


*Z1R: MDR vs IER*

I distinctly remember the first time I listened to a hifi system that blew my mind. This was in 2014, at the Audio Salon in Santa Monica. The system I was demoing was not the extensive D’Agostini+Wilson Audio systems that this dealer was famous for. It was not even a proper ‘rack’ hifi system. Just by looking at it you would dismiss it as glorified Bluetooth speakers. However the sound coming from the pair of Devialet Phantom Golds was unlike any rack hifi I’ve heard before. While the sound may not be as refined or technical as other systems I’ve demoed before, from manufactures such as Denon, Sonus Faber, JBL or B&W, the pair of Phantom Golds captivated me with such raw energy and intensity, I nearly made the purchase then and there. However I realized, soberingly, I had not the room to place such a system, and such a system would be wasted in my living space. I would never forget this sound, and since joining the world of headfi, I have been quietly searching for gear that could approach what I heard in the Audio Salon many years ago.

The journey is over with the IER Z1R (referred to as IER). This in ear monitor is bombastic, ostentatious, and addictingly engaging. The IER is perfect for those who wish to extract the full presence from a song, the hidden energy which makes your blood pump and your hair stand on end. The bass reaches into depths I didn’t know existed, and the same happens to the treble, it endlessly extends, and sometimes too much so. This is the perils of a W shaped signature, however even with those flaws this new approach from Sony pays off in dividends. The mid range is sweeter than I expected, but it works well with the sharper treble. Some folks like myself are treble sensitive, and in some recordings the treble is a tad hot. It seems the treble extends if only to match the bottomless low end the dynamic driver achieves, and this is how the IER can extract that hidden energy from a song. It’s like buying an EQ that extracts more soul from the music. This IER supercharges music, and if you can get past the fit, try it immediately.

If the IER were similar to Phantom Golds, than I would compare the MDR Z1R (referred to as MDR) to a pair of JBL 43XX speakers. That sound you just heard were some audiophiles cheering and clapping. The JBL 43XX series has a cult like following in the audiophile world, especially Japan. The sound you get from a JBL is warm, but also retains defined detail with excellent bloomy low end. The MDR aims to bring a classic speaker like sound to headphones, which results in a tuning that has received mixed reactions. MDR has a romantic acoustic tuning, it just wants you to relax and enjoy. It’s not as technical as the IER, and won’t supercharge your listening sessions, but why would I want to supercharge Andre Previn Trio anyway? The MDR and IER are different beasts aimed with different listening experiences in mind. Obviously the IER is the crowning technical achievement, but the MDR has more head time for me. I can smell the wood furniture and smoky aroma of whiskey when I put on the MDR and close my eyes. With the IER, it’s like I’m putting on VR and seeing the music and having it pumped into my veins simultaneously. IER resolution, clarity and energy makes the IER the ‘better’ sounding gear. But I end up choosing the MDR more often to use than the IER. Cest la vie.


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> If I was in your position, I would get the IER Z1R’s to complement the MDR’s. Then get the DMP Z1. Here’s a brief write up I wrote earlier today for an audio enthusiast who asked me about the MDR vs IER.
> Apologies if off topic from DMP, however in my (albeit weak haha) defense the IER Z1R is a frequent pairing for the DMP.
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the feed back & suggestion @kp297 Unfortunately, i just cannot tolerate in ears, at all. Don't get me wrong i do love my Z1R's & i wonder as i age if i'm just getting more sensitive to treble & what i call "busy sound" i.e. a lot going on in the music ?? Our hearing and moods change as we get older...and i'm just wondering if it's just that ?....and the fact that i'm so used to the sound of the MDR-Z1R's now....they still surprise me...but then i think, "Am i just not in the mood" ??
I think at some point i will take the plunge on the DMP-Z1 especially if i see the same offer again. ( Supersonido. ) The constant amazing, out of this world experiences, is difficult not to ignore !


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for the feed back & suggestion @kp297 Unfortunately, i just cannot tolerate in ears, at all. Don't get me wrong i do love my Z1R's & i wonder as i age if i'm just getting more sensitive to treble & what i call "busy sound" i.e. a lot going on in the music ?? Our hearing and moods change as we get older...and i'm just wondering if it's just that ?....and the fact that i'm so used to the sound of the MDR-Z1R's now....they still surprise me...but then i think, "Am i just not in the mood" ??
> I think at some point i will take the plunge on the DMP-Z1 especially if i see the same offer again. ( Supersonido. ) The constant amazing, out of this world experiences, is difficult not to ignore !


I used to not be able to tolerate in ears, but life changes, and I can’t get around without music.  In a sense I feel that I am lucky to have IeR-Z1R as a released product when I need it.  I still prefer hd800s as much as I can though, but Walkman and IeR-Z1R is an excellent combo for portability


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## Rob49 (May 12, 2020)

Whitigir said:


> I used to not be able to tolerate in ears, but life changes, and I can’t get around without music.  In a sense I feel that I am lucky to have IeR-Z1R as a released product when I need it.  I still prefer hd800s as much as I can though, but Walkman and IeR-Z1R is an excellent combo for portability



Portability is not something that's possible for me....as in walking around....i'm basically housebound.....but regardless of this situation....i know i wouldn't be able to tolerate in ears...i can't tolerate ear plugs that i have tried using for my hypersensitivity to noise....i suffer from severe M.E. / CFS ( Nearly 20 years now & for the first 5 years, i couldn't tolerate listening to music, i.e. could not get to the second song of a CD.....wondering if i would ever be able to listen to music again, for any long period ?? Thankfully, i have been able to...but to this day, i will always have problems, i.e. listening too long, not being able to cope with it, getting head pains, the longer i listen.....SO imagine if you couldn't physically listen to something....the same as trying to watch something....that's still as difficult as ever....but at least now i can listen longer....than those first 5 years...


----------



## paulchiu

A while back, I raved about the 3-dimensionality of the Audeze LCD-i4 when match with Sony DMP-Z1.

Well ..

The balanced adaptor made for the Abyss finally arrived and for me, this now is the most spacious feeling yet with the DMP-Z1.
I prefer the headphone-out music from the Sony DMP-Z1 over the Chord DAVE when using the Abyss.

The only slight negative is that the bass out of the DAVE can be chest-thumping strong, but it is a dirty bass.  The Sony DMP-Z1 bass is cleaner with less distortion, just lacks that hammer level desired for the likes of Copland: Fanfare For The Common Man and others.

Re: Zero OST sounds large!  Billy Ocean's Caribbean Queen sounded like he's singing to me on a boat.  Madonna's Vogue takes me to the Majestic.

.... about that Abyss tonnage, my size 15.5 neck says please stop.....


----------



## kp297

paulchiu said:


> A while back, I raved about the 3-dimensionality of the Audeze LCD-i4 when match with Sony DMP-Z1.
> 
> Well ..
> 
> ...



Can you compare to Abyss DIANA?


----------



## paulchiu

kp297 said:


> Can you compare to Abyss DIANA?



I don't own the Diana Phi now, but I have tried and used them over time.  I would not recommend them at 3 or 4K when you can buy a HiFiman HE1000 V2 for 2.5K.  They are both about as comfortable with similar soundstages.  The bass is about the same as well.  
Regarding 1266 vs Diana.
The imaging (bigger, deeper, more accurate), bass (so hard it hurts) and sounds (contralto vocals like Diana Krall's will velcro to your brain) from the Abyss 1266 Phi are superior to those from the Diana Phi, in my opinion.


----------



## Rob49 (May 13, 2020)

paulchiu said:


> A while back, I raved about the 3-dimensionality of the Audeze LCD-i4 when match with Sony DMP-Z1.
> 
> Well ..
> 
> ...



Great that they sound so good, but boy, those have to be one of the ugliest headphones i've EVER seen ! They're like my ear defenders, infact my ear defenders look better ! ( & how big does your head have to be ! ? ) - and it seems your head as to be "square" ??


----------



## paulchiu

Rob49 said:


> Great that they sound so good, but boy, those have to be one of the ugliest headphones i've EVER seen ! They're like my ear defenders, infact my ear defenders look better ! ( & how big does your head have to be ! ? ) - and it seems your head as to be "square" ??



200% with you there.  They are ugly as uuck.  You'll need a Benny Hill head to fit.  But, if you're alone at night on an easy chair, or in my case working on the computer, they are the best audiophile experience.


----------



## kp297

paulchiu said:


> 200% with you there.  They are ugly as uuck.  You'll need a Benny Hill head to fit.  But, if you're alone at night on an easy chair, or in my case working on the computer, they are the best audiophile experience.



What I’m more surprised at is the Abyss 1266 headphones are notoriously hard to drive, yet the DMP can manage it? Did not expect that.


----------



## paulchiu

kp297 said:


> What I’m more surprised at is the Abyss 1266 headphones are notoriously hard to drive, yet the DMP can manage it? Did not expect that.



Yes, DMP-Z1 did not run even warm at 2 o'clock.  Wall wart was cool to the touch as well.


----------



## purk

paulchiu said:


> Yes, DMP-Z1 did not run even warm at 2 o'clock.  Wall wart was cool to the touch as well.



Is the Abyss more difficult to drive than the Susvara?  I don’t have any Orthos anymore but I wonder if the DMP can deal with hard to drive orthos.  The DMP really work wonder on my R10, Qualia, and HD800.


----------



## paulchiu

purk said:


> Is the Abyss more difficult to drive than the Susvara?  I don’t have any Orthos anymore but I wonder if the DMP can deal with hard to drive orthos.  The DMP really work wonder on my R10, Qualia, and HD800.



47 ohms on the Abyss 1266 and 60 on the HiFiman Susvara, so I don' think so.  If you like how the DMP-Z1 sounds with the higher impedance Sennheiser HD800 (300?) you should be fine.


----------



## kp297 (May 14, 2020)

*removed


----------



## purk

paulchiu said:


> 47 ohms on the Abyss 1266 and 60 on the HiFiman Susvara, so I don' think so.  If you like how the DMP-Z1 sounds with the higher impedance Sennheiser HD800 (300?) you should be fine.


It also has to do with the sensitivity rating.


----------



## paulchiu

Using the Sony IER-Z1R today with the Kimber upgrade balanced cables and SpitFit CP100 mediums on DMP-Z1

This in-ear improves on bass versus the Audeze LCD-i4.
Imaging is noticeably more narrow with the Sony IER-Z1R.
Take your pick on what you want more.

I can work on my computer all day wearing these.

Running Roon with Sony DMP-Z1, you will need to do it on Windows 10 as Sony's ASIO drivers only work there.


----------



## mrtim6 (May 15, 2020)

phonomat said:


> Hm, I must say I'm with @kp297 on this one. I've heard the Orpheus twice, and both times I was thinking, well, this is just another headphone. Was not impressed at all. At the third opportunity, I didn't even bother. To be fair, I don't think it is _meant_ to wow you on a cursory listen, and oftentimes the things with the biggest wow factor just end up getting on your nerves in the end while you stick with the "growers". Also both times were under show conditions which is not comparable with listening to your own music at home, but anyway, it just left me cold.
> 
> The DMP-Z1 on the other hand ... All I can say at the moment is that I've never heard music presented this way. It's really unlike everything I've ever heard. Note that this is not necessarily positive. I  mean, this thing has made short work of some of my most beloved tunes. Entire songs that might suffer from a lackluster production I wasn't even aware of beforehand have completely fallen apart under its scrutiny, rendered virtually unlistenable -- harsh, untight, instruments all over the place. I listened for two or three hours last night, and there was a moment when I had the revelation that for me it's not about the technical prowess, it's entirely about the music. The hunt for the best sound has become a sport for some of us, and it's easy to fall into this mindset. And it's absolutely okay if you do, I think it's just not my way. I will always love my favorite tunes, no matter if I hear them on some sort of megabuck system or streamed on a crappy mono speaker, because of the memories, the situations, the people I've shared them with.
> 
> ...




I’m very happy you’re enjoying you new system sounds like a great pairing.
just to clarify I was able to listen for two hours in a controlled environment— so not a show or rushed 20 minute session with both systems. I didn’t try the new Sony flagship IEMs you have, I did try my Utopias, Z1Rs, HE6s and Susvaras (not ideal I know).
i previously owned the TA-ZH1ES and did not IMO feel the DMP1 was that significant an upgrade. I know YMMV so I’m simply describing my experience nothing more.


----------



## Damz87

The DMP-Z1 has jumped in price here in Australia to AUD $13,000! 

Crazy.


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## rtjoa

Damz87 said:


> The DMP-Z1 has jumped in price here in Australia to AUD $13,000!
> 
> Crazy.


Yeah up A$3k is way too much. Wm1z has been increased by A$1k. The prices are now much higher than recommended retail prices.

It is much cheaper in Singapore.


----------



## Rob49

Damz87 said:


> The DMP-Z1 has jumped in price here in Australia to AUD $13,000!
> 
> Crazy.



Welcome to U.K. pricing !



rtjoa said:


> Yeah up A$3k is way too much. Wm1z has been increased by A$1k. The prices are now much higher than recommended retail prices.
> 
> It is much cheaper in Singapore.



That was a more reasonable price for the DMP-Z1

What's happened to the promised feedback from new owners ?? Too busy listening....??


----------



## Sp12er3

the freebies price are gone eh?


----------



## Rob49

Sp12er3 said:


> the freebies price are gone eh?



I'm hoping Supersonido have that recent great offer again ?? A missed opportunity i regret.


----------



## purk

rtjoa said:


> Yeah up A$3k is way too much. Wm1z has been increased by A$1k. The prices are now much higher than recommended retail prices.
> 
> It is much cheaper in Singapore.


During the pandemic?  Doesn’t make much sense.


----------



## rtjoa

purk said:


> During the pandemic?  Doesn’t make much sense.


The price was increased about 3 weeks ago. The current price is a just normal retail price US$8k + 10% GST tax.

The previous price was really cheap at US$6600.


----------



## Sp12er3

Australia had quite a few below MSRP price going for a lot of Sony High Ends model last year, now Its just going back to normal I guess?


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## Whitigir

Get it while it last, that is what they are all saying.  I know that when manufacturers allows discounts, it doesn’t tap onto dealer margin.

I would bet that Sony is not going To be back soon, and hence it raised the prices back up to MSRP

This outbreak is just getting ridiculous


----------



## rtjoa

Sp12er3 said:


> Australia had quite a few below MSRP price going for a lot of Sony High Ends model last year, now Its just going back to normal I guess?


Yes they had several Sony items which were below MSRP. 

It probably wont be the same anymore.


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Get it while it last, that is what they are all saying.  I know that when manufacturers allows discounts, it doesn’t tap onto dealer margin.
> 
> I would bet that Sony is not going To be back soon, and hence it raised the prices back up to MSRP
> 
> This outbreak is just getting ridiculous



That recent deal at Supersonido - 4.699 Euro's, just shows how much margin there is ! ( As i've said, i really do regret completeling the purchase. ) I'd be very surprised that there would ever be a similar deal anytime in the near future ??....but i'll keep looking, each day.


----------



## slumberman

Rob49 said:


> I'm hoping Supersonido have that recent great offer again ?? A missed opportunity i regret.


Emailed about it and they said there’s no plan for the same offer to come back for the rest of the year unfortunately.


----------



## Rob49

slumberman said:


> Emailed about it and they said there’s no plan for the same offer to come back for the rest of the year unfortunately.



Sad to hear that....but not surprised.


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Sad to hear that....but not surprised.


I agreed, it was such a steep discount that I don’t even think used DMP would be at that price lol!!!


----------



## Fsilva

Guys...no worries...i´m here again to help those that are looking for a good price for the Z1...spoken with my dealer whom can always get the best deals...will get back to you guys soon...hang tight!


----------



## kp297

One day @Rob49 will post pics of his newly delivered Z1. It’ll be totally worth it!


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> One day @Rob49 will post pics of his newly delivered Z1. It’ll be totally worth it!



I'm not sure after a benefit decision received today ! ?


----------



## paulchiu

Spent the weekend testing HiFiman HE1000 V2 and Utopia with Sony DMP-Z1 using all silver (100% Ag) cabling.  The imaging is quite realistic with passages off DSD tracks that often had me believing that room speakers were on. 

While the bass off Utopia is not as strong with upper chest-thumping contrasted with Abyss 1266, it was pristine and non-fatiguing for hours.  One just cannot listen for too long wearing the Abyss.  Not surprisingly, the Utopia was easier to drive than the Abyss 1266.


----------



## TerryGantnerFamilyWorkout

Hi all, new head-fi member here. I'm actually rather new to the hi fi community in general. A friend got me into this and now he's ruined me. Over the last several months I've picked up the MDR-Z1R, the IER-Z1R and the nwzx507. I pretty much exclusively listen to streaming. I'm into enjoying old music but for me the pleasure is in the dopaminergic thrill of a great new song. I've read almost all of the posts in this thread and have a pretty good understanding of the pros/cons of the DMP - as well as of the personalities of many of you. My question is, should I just get the TA-ZH1ES to pump up my MDR and IER with streaming the NWZX507? Or should I consider getting the DMP? I know it's not built for that; it's not a supposed to be a DAC alone and streaming music sounds inferior to stored digital files. But I prefer sony products and wish to choose between the two. I'm open to considering the DMP if it's going to be significantly better- not just 10-20% better than the TA. Appreciate any insight!


----------



## kp297 (May 27, 2020)

TerryGantnerFamilyWorkout said:


> Hi all, new head-fi member here. I'm actually rather new to the hi fi community in general. A friend got me into this and now he's ruined me. Over the last several months I've picked up the MDR-Z1R, the IER-Z1R and the nwzx507. I pretty much exclusively listen to streaming. I'm into enjoying old music but for me the pleasure is in the dopaminergic thrill of a great new song. I've read almost all of the posts in this thread and have a pretty good understanding of the pros/cons of the DMP - as well as of the personalities of many of you. My question is, should I just get the TA-ZH1ES to pump up my MDR and IER with streaming the NWZX507? Or should I consider getting the DMP? I know it's not built for that; it's not a supposed to be a DAC alone and streaming music sounds inferior to stored digital files. But I prefer sony products and wish to choose between the two. I'm open to considering the DMP if it's going to be significantly better- not just 10-20% better than the TA. Appreciate any insight!



Well, it depends on your expendable funds and whether it's represents good enough value to pay for it. Like many of us here, I purchased the DMP Z1 because I wanted to spoil myself with the very best Sony could engineer and offer. This is a dream product for me, and I was lucky enough to be in the position to afford one.
Assuming you are comfortable with spending the money for a DMP (probably biggest hurdle), then you need to evaluate whether the features offered is justified for your use case. 

Now, I'm going to be blunt, the 'level headed' desktop setup would probably be getting something like a Topping D90 DAC and a high quality tube amp (Woo Audio, or a warm solid state like a Vioelectric V281). If you want Sony, TAZH1ES is my preferred pick, but as an all in one you lose out on switching out components.

HOWEVER, if you are already seriously looking at DMP, and crave luxury with your technology (and transportability) I don't think there's anything close to the DMP Z1 in this category. If you have a love for Sony, and really want luxury, over the top design, engineering, craftsmanship, and sound, this device is perfect and has no equal. For streaming? Perhaps not what it is primarily designed for (dual SD's and onboard 256 gb). However, yes it works great with streaming too. I love using the DMP on my desk, as the hot summer weather doesn't affect DMP operating temperature, it runs cool. TAZH1ES ran quite warm, and the added heat was not welcome on my desktop.

Good luck, such a purchase DEFINITELY requires some thought. I gave it plenty of thought, and have zero regrets. It's my jewel, pride, inspiration and joy.

Edit: To compare TAZH1ES to DMP. TA is the better value, but after owning and using both, the DMP is in a different league. There is clearly a diminishing return sound wise, but as a package, the DMP stands apart as an experience. Get the TA if the price of the DMP is even making you slightly nervous.


----------



## dasherzx

kp297 said:


> Well, it depends on your expendable funds and whether it's represents good enough value to pay for it. Like many of us here, I purchased the DMP Z1 because I wanted to spoil myself with the very best Sony could engineer and offer. This is a dream product for me, and I was lucky enough to be in the position to afford one.
> Assuming you are comfortable with spending the money for a DMP (probably biggest hurdle), then you need to evaluate whether the features offered is justified for your use case.
> 
> Now, I'm going to be blunt, the 'level headed' desktop setup would probably be getting something like a Topping D90 DAC and a high quality tube amp (Woo Audio, or a warm solid state like a Vioelectric V281). If you want Sony, TAZH1ES is my preferred pick, but as an all in one you lose out on switching out components.
> ...


i was just gonna ask here if the sound improvement is worth it as well. for me, the ZH1ES was markedly better in sound quality over the WM1Z, and I wondered if the same could be said for the DMP. I only had 10 minutes hearing the DMP and couldn't reach a conclusion.
Or maybe I should hold up and try out their near field speakers when it's released. They cost almost the same and imo hifi systems are a better deal... Decisions, decisions...


----------



## TerryGantnerFamilyWorkout

kp297 said:


> Well, it depends on your expendable funds and whether it's represents good enough value to pay for it. Like many of us here, I purchased the DMP Z1 because I wanted to spoil myself with the very best Sony could engineer and offer. This is a dream product for me, and I was lucky enough to be in the position to afford one.
> Assuming you are comfortable with spending the money for a DMP (probably biggest hurdle), then you need to evaluate whether the features offered is justified for your use case.
> 
> Now, I'm going to be blunt, the 'level headed' desktop setup would probably be getting something like a Topping D90 DAC and a high quality tube amp (Woo Audio, or a warm solid state like a Vioelectric V281). If you want Sony, TAZH1ES is my preferred pick, but as an all in one you lose out on switching out components.
> ...


Thanks for the terrific feedback. I appreciate your thoughtful reply. The money is not inconsequential and it wouldn't be a decision made lightly, especially in the context of ongoing events, but I would rather save for the DMP if it is truly, unquestionably, a slam dunk superior to the TA-ZH1ES. I have to say, however, that listening to streaming via the NWZX507 with either the MDR or IER has been a sublime experience for me thus far so perhaps no need to rush to upgrade just yet. I'm just appreciative of this new hobby and the new sensory experiences.


----------



## paulchiu

After hearing that the Sony Walkman NW-WM1Z did not impress above, I spent the last few hours re-listening to recent tracks enjoyed with Sony DMP-Z1 on various 'phones.
My quick take is that the WM1Z has probably 95% of the DMP-Z1 sound.  If I were blind-tested, the only way to tell the difference is likely through the Abyss 1266 where the bass of the WM1Z is lacking.  Imaging-wise, the two are hard to differentiate.  In a quiet setting, I don't think I can pick from the two with 100% accuracy.


----------



## koven

paulchiu said:


> My quick take is that the WM1Z has probably 95% of the DMP-Z1 sound.



+5% for an additional $5K+, this sums up the world of Summit-Fi..


----------



## Rob49

koven said:


> +5% for an additional $5K+, this sums up the world of Summit-Fi..



I still come back to this, that it is way overpriced at nearly £7.000.


----------



## phonomat (May 28, 2020)

koven said:


> +5% for an additional $5K+, this sums up the world of Summit-Fi..


You certainly have a point, but let's not forget that while these $5K+ are very much a hard fact, the 5% aren't. They are just a) one man's opinion and b) a rough guesstimate at most that should not be taken literally. Basically, since we have no way of actually measuring these things (as they're not only subjective but also not quantifiable), they're basically just a way of saying, in my mind, it's pretty close, and nothing else. Personally, I try not to throw around numbers like that because they're too often taken as gospel, thus spawning a new narrative ("They say the DMP-Z1 is just 5 % better than the WM-1Z"), which is not really helpful, but perhaps they can help others to get a basic feel for at least a perceived difference of things.

That being said, I still don't really know what to make of my own DMP-Z1. At times, it totally wows me, and then again, it will leave me more or less cold. I haven't yet worked out all of the contributing variables. It certainly seems to have something to do with quality of the music files, but it does not seem limited to that. Will have to do more listening and determining; so far I have just a measly 24 hours on my unit, as work is plentiful and listening time more or less restricted to nights.

I do, however, have a problem. When the DMP-Z1 is plugged in, I hear a humming noise via the IER-Z1 that I don't perceive with the MDR-Z1. At first I thought it was just due to the IER-Z1R being more sensitive, but the strange thing is that the humming disappears as soon as I touch either the power cable, the IEM's cable or the unit itself. Is anyone else experiencing this? Could it be some sort of grounds related problem? If so, shouldn't it be perceivable on the MDR-Z1R as well? It only seems to be an issue when the power cable is plugged in. (Sorry, I'm a total tech dyslexic, if that was not apparent.) Strangely, I'm almost sure that I didn't hear it in the first couple of hours, despite the unit loading while I listened. I remember being excited about the deeply black background, and now this is ruining the experience a bit. It's not really audible while music is playing, but quite apparent during very quiet passages or between songs, and to be honest, it annoys me quite a bit. Anyone have an idea what could be happening? TIA!


----------



## Rob49

Great to finally hear from you @phonomat  but so sorry to hear of the "humming" sound with the in ears....stupid question, do you have any other in ears to try. to see if you get the same "humming" ?? I've often read of "hissing" on here with the use of in ears, but would this "humming" be that ??
I'm sure people like @Whitigir and other knowledgeable people will be along shortly....hopefully with a logical reason ??....i just hope it isn't a fault ?? Just re-reading, it's not an issue with purely battery use ?? I can definitely understand it affecting your enjoyment....i hope it can be resolved ?

I think i'm going through the wow's with my gear....and then thinking....i'm not so impressed today....but one device i've gone back to & really enjoying is my Sony ZX2. It's sounding so good with TRRS cable, which you kind of forget, when you've been listening to other devices.

I still hope to purchase the DMP one day, but i'm really not prepared to pay the typical price, when i missed out on THAT DEAL !! ( Sorry, to get into monetary debate, but it is a huge factor, not being able to listen to the device before purchasing. )

I do think the rate and quality of music files, production is SO important on any device....it's like watching the resolution of a movie & how it was filmed...


----------



## Damz87

phonomat said:


> You certainly have a point, but let's not forget that while these $5K+ are very much a hard fact, the 5% aren't. They are just a) one man's opinion and b) a rough guesstimate at most that should not be taken literally. Basically, since we have no way of actually measuring these things (as they're not only subjective but also not quantifiable), they're basically just a way of saying, in my mind, it's pretty close, and nothing else. Personally, I try not to throw around numbers like that because they're too often taken as gospel, thus spawning a new narrative ("They say the DMP-Z1 is just 5 % better than the WM-1Z"), which is not really helpful, but perhaps they can help others to get a basic feel for at least a perceived difference of things.
> 
> That being said, I still don't really know what to make of my own DMP-Z1. At times, it totally wows me, and then again, it will leave me more or less cold. I haven't yet worked out all of the contributing variables. It certainly seems to have something to do with quality of the music files, but it does not seem limited to that. Will have to do more listening and determining; so far I have just a measly 24 hours on my unit, as work is plentiful and listening time more or less restricted to nights.
> 
> I do, however, have a problem. When the DMP-Z1 is plugged in, I hear a humming noise via the IER-Z1 that I don't perceive with the MDR-Z1. At first I thought it was just due to the IER-Z1R being more sensitive, but the strange thing is that the humming disappears as soon as I touch either the power cable, the IEM's cable or the unit itself. Is anyone else experiencing this? Could it be some sort of grounds related problem? If so, shouldn't it be perceivable on the MDR-Z1R as well? It only seems to be an issue when the power cable is plugged in. (Sorry, I'm a total tech dyslexic, if that was not apparent.) Strangely, I'm almost sure that I didn't not hear it in the first couple of hours, despite the unit loading while I listened. I remember being excited about the deeply black background, and now this is ruining the experience a bit. It's not really audible while music is playing, but quite apparent during very quiet passages or between songs, and to be honest, it annoys me quite a bit. Anyone have an idea what could be happening? TIA!



That’s really strange. Haven’t heard any background hiss or noise with the IER-Z1R or any other phone for that matter. Have you tried a different power point in your house?


----------



## phonomat

Damz87 said:


> That’s really strange. Haven’t heard any background hiss or noise with the IER-Z1R or any other phone for that matter. Have you tried a different power point in your house?


Yes, the problem persists independent of power outlet and IEMs. It's definitely not hiss; it sounds exactly like a ground loop, like when a turntable is not properly grounded, for example. And it vanishes as soon as I touch the unit. Naturally, I'm using the original cable with the ferrite core it came with. There is definitely something wrong. Everything is fine when running on batteries, but as soon as I plug it in again, it's back. That supersweet Supersonido deal might yet bite me in the a$$ if I have to send the unit back and explain in Spanish what the problem is, lol. Just my luck ...


----------



## Whitigir (May 28, 2020)

DMP-Z1 is pure abysmal Black/silence background on any gears I have tossed it at, including ier-Z1R.


----------



## Rob49

phonomat said:


> Yes, the problem persists independent of power outlet and IEMs. It's definitely not hiss; it sounds exactly like a ground loop, like when a turntable is not properly grounded, for example. And it vanishes as soon as I touch the unit. Naturally, I'm using the original cable with the ferrite core it came with. There is definitely something wrong. Everything is fine when running on batteries, but as soon as I plug it in again, it's back. That supersweet Supersonido deal might yet bite me in the a$$ if I have to send the unit back and explain in Spanish what the problem is, lol. Just my luck ...



Again, so sorry to hear this....but it looks like i "dodged a bullet" there ??



Whitigir said:


> DMP-Z1 is pure abysmal background on any gears I have tossed it at, including ier-Z1R.



I know what you're trying to convey, but i'm not sure "abysmal" is the right word ??


----------



## Whitigir (May 28, 2020)

Corrected, it is my intelligent auto correct that decided to deleted the word “Black”...LOL


----------



## phonomat (May 28, 2020)

Whitigir said:


> DMP-Z1 is pure abysmal Black/silence background on any gears I have tossed it at, including ier-Z1R.


And I'm sure that's just how it's supposed to be. Hence my observation that there is definitely something wrong with my unit and the question if anyone know what the source of this problem could be. Any help is much appreciated. Still hoping to remedy this somehow without having to send the unit in. Again, I could swear that this was not the case when I plugged it in for the first time. I basically charged the battery once and emptied it to 10 %, and the next time I plugged it in, the hum appeared. Very strange, this.

Edit: I get hum with the IER-Z1R on the 4.4 mm as well as the 3.5 mm jack and some cheap House Of Marley IEM on the 3.5.
None with the MDR-Z1R on either jack nor the Meze 99 Classic on the 3.5. I have no clue what is going on here.


----------



## Rob49 (May 28, 2020)

Whitigir said:


> Corrected, it is my intelligent auto correct that decided to deleted the word “Black”...LOL



Clearly NOT SO intelligent ! ?? Excuses ! excuses !  

@phonomat nothing to lose giving Sony a call ??....even though CS is not that great at times !


----------



## Rob49

While i'm still waiting to see if there are anymore good deals on the DMP-Z1, i'd love to hear any feedback from owners of the Focal Utopia's & the Stellia's, with the DMP-Z1 ?


----------



## kp297

It's excellent haha. No notes, it's perfect for me. The MDR Z1R and Stellias with the DMP represent the pinnacle of closed back listening and it's hard to stop using this system. If you like what the Stellia offers, then you'll absolutely love it on the DMP.


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> It's excellent haha. No notes, it's perfect for me. The MDR Z1R and Stellias with the DMP represent the pinnacle of closed back listening and it's hard to stop using this system. If you like what the Stellia offers, then you'll absolutely love it on the DMP.



Those headphones look gorgeous....i've got the MDR-Z1R's but never bought a Focal headphone & i'm contemplating buying these or the Utopia's, regardless of whether i eventually but the DMP-Z1.

SO envious, looking at that pic...


----------



## kp297 (Jun 1, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> Those headphones look gorgeous....i've got the MDR-Z1R's but never bought a Focal headphone & i'm contemplating buying these or the Utopia's, regardless of whether i eventually but the DMP-Z1.
> 
> SO envious, looking at that pic...



The satisfaction when you get the DMP will be immense I imagine! I would recommend the Stellia if you are happy with the Z1R's (closed back sound presentation). The Stellia is quite a bit more comfortable (weight and earcups) than the Utopia. I purchased the Utopia first, but the open back nature of the Utopia and comfort was not working for me. I then purchased the Stellia, and it's been perfect. I would suggest to hit up Underwood hifi (based in Hawaii), he offers fantastic deals, give him a call.

*of course, you should always TRY before you buy


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> The satisfaction when you get the DMP will be immense I imagine! I would recommend the Stellia if you are happy with the Z1R's (closed back sound presentation). The Stellia is quite a bit more comfortable (weight and earcups) than the Utopia. I purchased the Utopia first, but the open back nature of the Utopia and comfort was not working for me. I then purchased the Stellia, and it's been perfect. I would suggest to hit up Underwood hifi (based in Hawaii), he offers fantastic deals, give him a call.
> 
> *of course, you should always TRY before you buy



I'm in the U.K. ( & due to circumstances i always have to blind buy. ) Were you not happy with the sound of the Utopia's, or was it just the fact they were open back & didn't feel comfortable ?

I've loved my Z1R's & still do, but sense that treble peak with some recordings. Are there any times you sense harshness with the Stellia's ? ( Or even with the Utopia's, for the time you had them ? )

Just looking at them, i can tell they're probably more comfortable than the MDR-Z1R's & probably not so heavy ??


----------



## kp297

Rob49 said:


> I'm in the U.K. ( & due to circumstances i always have to blind buy. ) Were you not happy with the sound of the Utopia's, or was it just the fact they were open back & didn't feel comfortable ?
> 
> I've loved my Z1R's & still do, but sense that treble peak with some recordings. Are there any times you sense harshness with the Stellia's ? ( Or even with the Utopia's, for the time you had them ? )
> 
> Just looking at them, i can tell they're probably more comfortable than the MDR-Z1R's & probably not so heavy ??



The Utopia's did exactly what they advertised, but they fell short with the bass and the open back nature bothered me more than I anticipated. Also it felt like a super car, think of the Porsche 935 https://bit.ly/3gL4QxO (uncompromising, not as comfortable). The Stellia is like a top of the line modern 911 Turbo, not as 'true' as the 935 but plenty fast and also comfortable. 

The highs on the Z1R's don't bother me at all, Stellia highs are controlled and are less intense than the Utopia.

I hope this has helped.


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> The Utopia's did exactly what they advertised, but they fell short with the bass and the open back nature bothered me more than I anticipated. Also it felt like a super car, think of the Porsche 935 https://bit.ly/3gL4QxO (uncompromising, not as comfortable). The Stellia is like a top of the line modern 911 Turbo, not as 'true' as the 935 but plenty fast and also comfortable.
> 
> The highs on the Z1R's don't bother me at all, Stellia highs are controlled and are less intense than the Utopia.
> 
> I hope this has helped.



Thanks for your further thoughts / feedback. I'm definitely being drawn to the Stellia's. Would you say they're better than the MDR-Z1R's & if so, how much better ? ( I don't want to derail the thread.....but i am thinking ahead & still hoping to buy the DMP-Z1 )


----------



## coolhand (Jun 2, 2020)

'There is no such thing as headphones with speakers like experiences'

Hey peeps I just popped my in this thread after a long while and saw a reference to me or something I may have mentioned.

I don't recall stating what I quoted above previously, but I will expand on that which at least one person believes to be of 'no such thing'....

A while back Joe of Abyss offered me an upgrade to Diana Phi from Diana, and together with a Pentaconn Superconductor cable these puppies fed from the DMP-Z1 can frequently _transcend_ the 'speaker sound from headphones' auditory illusion.

By way of example I refer to the experience of full spectrum sound waves traversing the countryside such as one experiences when present on location at an outdoor 'rave' with a 50KW Funktion-One soundsystem.

I speak from first hand experiences of producing, engineering and performing at such events and the Diana Phi/DMP-Z1 combo can readily elicit entirely enveloping & (in)credible sensory illusions as such.. if the source audio is produced appropriately well (which neither implies binaurally or specifically for headphone playback).

This 'full body' illusionary feat is not limited to just one genre of music either, but I refer to the above example as one specific instance whereby several people whom have been present with me at such live events have listened to my reference headfi rig and reported the above to me almost verbatim... 'like actually being there, outdoors'

It's a feckin' huuuge sound and thanks to the likes of Joe and the magnificent boffins at Sony, one is now able to pack it a case and carry with them ANYWHERE.

bleedin' awesome wot 😎


----------



## adrianm

Hi,
Sorry if i missed it,but i couldn't find any actual impressions on the Dmp Z1 vs Dave. I know you all love your Z1's and not the same product category and etc.Read all that.
   But has anyone compared them using  the MDR Z1R?.I got a TA-ZH1ES recently but heard the Dave today and it was pretty amazing.Considering returning the TA and just getting a Dave.The Hugo TT2 + Mscaler did absolutely nothing for me,happier with the TA.
   The Z1 seems interesting ,but overpriced, and i have no use for anything but the dac. I find it hard to believe it can compete with the Dave,and don't plan on  lugging around 10 k worth of gear to the office and back everyday anyway.


----------



## nanaholic (Jun 6, 2020)

adrianm said:


> Hi,
> Sorry if i missed it,but i couldn't find any actual impressions on the Dmp Z1 vs Dave. I know you all love your Z1's and not the same product category and etc.Read all that.
> But has anyone compared them using  the MDR Z1R?.I got a TA-ZH1ES recently but heard the Dave today and it was pretty amazing.Considering returning the TA and just getting a Dave.The Hugo TT2 + Mscaler did absolutely nothing for me,happier with the TA.
> The Z1 seems interesting ,but overpriced, and i have no use for anything but the dac. I find it hard to believe it can compete with the Dave,and don't plan on  lugging around 10 k worth of gear to the office and back everyday anyway.



We've discussed this in length before - the DMP-Z1 is special in that it occupies a very unique niche where someone wants a compact all-in-one transportable playback software/DAC/amp combo that runs on batteries and outperforms all TOTL pocketable DAPs and can rival desktop component devices but without all the hassle of mixing and matching and finding synergy. If you don't fall into this niche usage group, then for the same money you can very much get a better performing desktop component device. But if you fall into this niche, there's actually nothing like it on the market, so it isn't overpriced as there's actually no competitor.

If you know you only need a stationary best in class DAC, you are going to plug in multiple other devices into this DAC (external balanced amps, multiple source like a computer or a streamer running music software such as Roon etc) then just go for the Dave.


----------



## sanguineburrito (Jun 11, 2020)

Hi,
I've been a reader of this thread for quite some time, and thought I'd share my experience with DMP. I've been a long-time owner of JH16 and WM1A, and I bought the IER-Z1R early this year. The DMP + IER Z1R combo has been described as 1+1=3, hence I went to give it a try.

What I found most impressive about the DMP was how real it can make some live tracks sound. In particular, good quality live recordings don't feel like music reproduction. You can feel the environment and be in the music. You experience music that is close to its source. Sound is rich, crisp, emotional, and confident. The soundstage is not just wide, but 3D with space and depth. While my exposure to other daps/amp are limited, I think DMP is above TA-ZH1ES, WM1Z, and SP2000 when I played these live tracks. The others sound like digital reproduction in comparison.

However, this experience doesn't happen with all music. There are many tracks that sound just ok/good but not impressive, for instance, some tracks in the genre of indie pop, industrial hip hop, industrial rock, and rap. But I am not sure if it is because of DMP. Maybe these tracks don't scale much with better equipments?

In the end, I purchased a used DMP for around 5200 USD with 35 hrs of use. I bought it for a number of reasons:

Likely the best sounding player that runs on battery
Sony ecosystem/ OS; and other DAP brands tend to have shorter product cycle       
Build Quality and excellent design
Trasnportability  
Option for headphone usage in the future
Synergy with IER-Z1R. Female Vocals. Bass
Small screen and lack of streaming don't bother me   
Portability/transportability is important to me, because I feel that listening experience is amplified when done at the "right time and place." When it's a chill sunday, I could stay in bed and listen to high quality music. When it's raining, I could listen to moody music next to the window. If I really need to go portable, I can revert back to WM1A.

I wanted a single unit and end all the chasing. There are enough problems in the world; I don't want to add what amp, source, power supply, and cables to my list. Why not use the free time to explore new artists and music instead?  I am still burning in my DMP (at 150 hrs). Hopefully the sound will continue to improve.


----------



## kp297 (Jun 11, 2020)

sanguineburrito said:


> Hi,
> I've been a reader of this thread for quite some time, and thought I'd share my experience with DMP. I've been a long-time owner of JH16 and WM1A, and I bought the IER-Z1R early this year. The DMP + IER Z1R combo has been described as 1+1=3, hence I went to give it a try.
> 
> What I found most impressive about the DMP was how real it can make some live tracks sound. In particular, good quality live recordings don't feel like music reproduction. You can feel the environment and be in the music. You experience music that is close to its source. Sound is rich, crisp, emotional, and confident. The soundstage is not just wide, but 3D with space and depth. While my exposure to other daps/amp are limited, I think DMP is above TA-ZH1ES, WM1Z, and SP2000 when I played these live tracks. The others sound like digital reproduction in comparison.
> ...



If you can, get your hands on the MDR Z1R. It's different enough from the IER (more relaxed and a bit more comfy as it's over ear) and the pairing with the DMP is amazing.

Edit: Congratulations BTW! That's a great price for equipment of this caliber. It's a nice feeling when you know the journey is finished. Like a weight off the shoulders haha


----------



## Vitaly2017

sanguineburrito said:


> Hi,
> I've been a reader of this thread for quite some time, and thought I'd share my experience with DMP. I've been a long-time owner of JH16 and WM1A, and I bought the IER-Z1R early this year. The DMP + IER Z1R combo has been described as 1+1=3, hence I went to give it a try.
> 
> What I found most impressive about the DMP was how real it can make some live tracks sound. In particular, good quality live recordings don't feel like music reproduction. You can feel the environment and be in the music. You experience music that is close to its source. Sound is rich, crisp, emotional, and confident. The soundstage is not just wide, but 3D with space and depth. While my exposure to other daps/amp are limited, I think DMP is above TA-ZH1ES, WM1Z, and SP2000 when I played these live tracks. The others sound like digital reproduction in comparison.
> ...





Damnnn what a bargain ! Nice buy congrats

I wish I could have one 🙃 for that price of course 😁


----------



## bg4bxp

Whitigir said:


> DMP Z1 and MDR Z1R is too much Bass.  I enjoy IER Z1R better with it and I do prefer HD800S as a full-size with DMP Z1.
> 
> The DMP is a tier above TA ZH1ES.



Dear Whitigir, do you know where to buy the DMP-Z1 protective leather cover? Many thanks! Arthur from Shanghai.


----------



## Whitigir

bg4bxp said:


> Dear Whitigir, do you know where to buy the DMP-Z1 protective leather cover? Many thanks! Arthur from Shanghai.


Sorry, I do not know.  This one was DIY
I have seen many people started using the clear film cover like the screen protector around the body, but it is only sold in China or so


----------



## Damz87

There’s a Vun Nuys case I think?


----------



## Rob49

Does anyone know if there's another U.K. seller of the DMP-Z1, other than Amazon ?


----------



## bg4bxp

Whitigir said:


> Sorry, I do not know.  This one was DIY
> I have seen many people started using the clear film cover like the screen protector around the body, but it is only sold in China or so



Thanks for your feedback. I did the screen protector in Shanghai weeks ago. But it turned not so fitting coz bubbles and "wrinkles" are very difficult to deal with. 

If it comes to the leather cover, I have to send my DMP-Z1 to the shop, it takes several days for them to "customize" it. Another risk...


----------



## Rob49

bg4bxp said:


> Thanks for your feedback. I did the screen protector in Shanghai weeks ago. But it turned not so fitting coz bubbles and "wrinkles" are very difficult to deal with.
> 
> If it comes to the leather cover, I have to send my DMP-Z1 to the shop, it takes several days for them to "customize" it. Another risk...



Can i ask, what are your impressions of the DMP-Z1, please ?


----------



## bg4bxp

Rob49 said:


> Can i ask, what are your impressions of the DMP-Z1, please ?



Hey Rob, thanks for asking.

I own DMP-Z1 for 3 months. It's my first desktop player. I used to have FiiO M15 & Astell & Kern SP2000. 

DMP-Z1 is very versatile with headphones, incl. Z1R, HD800 (with an enhanced cable) and Utopia. 

The most favorite part is it's a "all-in-one" player with great design & high sound quality. I don't need to worry about the entire system construction, it fits very well for me as I am living & working in Shanghai with a very fast pace.


----------



## Rob49

bg4bxp said:


> Hey Rob, thanks for asking.
> 
> I own DMP-Z1 for 3 months. It's my first desktop player. I used to have FiiO M15 & Astell & Kern SP2000.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your impressions. I've actually been thinking of buying the Fiio M15, too. How do they both compare. Probably a little unfair to compare, but read many good things about the DAP.
I've been thinking of buying the DMP-Z1 for quite sometime now, but it's presently, "currently unavialable" on Amazon U.K.


----------



## bg4bxp

Rob49 said:


> Thank you for your impressions. I've actually been thinking of buying the Fiio M15, too. How do they both compare. Probably a little unfair to compare, but read many good things about the DAP.
> I've been thinking of buying the DMP-Z1 for quite sometime now, but it's presently, "currently unavialable" on Amazon U.K.



Hey Rob, when I paid at Sony flagship store in Shanghai, my baby was the last one available in stock. The sales boy told me, no idea when the new DMP-Z1 will be available. Partially due to COVID19... And my player code is only 364. I guess it has a bad sales performance worldwide for DMP-Z1. However, I really like all the design details presented by SONY, it's a perfect table-top hifi music player. I can easily find the place at home from my reading room to living room, enjoying the music along with the fresh Chinese green tea. 

The bluetooth function is also very very good. I can listen to all the streaming media from my smart phone, connected with DMP-Z1 through bluetooth. And even play the music in my Patrol wagon, through the bluetooth to my 13-Bose-speakers.

For FiiO M15, it's also a great portable player. Unfair to compare with DMP-Z1. This is currently the only one I want to re-buy it after I sold it. It's all-around function into this portable size is amazing. Particularly when at a reasonable cost. I mean, you cannot ask for more at this price.


----------



## Rob49

bg4bxp said:


> Hey Rob, when I paid at Sony flagship store in Shanghai, my baby was the last one available in stock. The sales boy told me, no idea when the new DMP-Z1 will be available. Partially due to COVID19... And my player code is only 364. I guess it has a bad sales performance worldwide for DMP-Z1. However, I really like all the design details presented by SONY, it's a perfect table-top hifi music player. I can easily find the place at home from my reading room to living room, enjoying the music along with the fresh Chinese green tea.
> 
> The bluetooth function is also very very good. I can listen to all the streaming media from my smart phone, connected with DMP-Z1 through bluetooth. And even play the music in my Patrol wagon, through the bluetooth to my 13-Bose-speakers.
> 
> For FiiO M15, it's also a great portable player. Unfair to compare with DMP-Z1. This is currently the only one I want to re-buy it after I sold it. It's all-around function into this portable size is amazing. Particularly when at a reasonable cost. I mean, you cannot ask for more at this price.



Of course, i didn't think of the equation of COVID19 ! I may never get one now ?? I can't imagine there will be too many made, given the price, either ?? If it's meant to be, then it's meant to be.

I've read nothing but positive things on here, with the exception of two comments, so it does appear to live up to the hype.
I wasn't looking to buy another DAP, but i am certainly tempted by the FiiO M15....mind you i'm "tempted" by many audio products ! 

Enjoy your listening....and Chinese Green Tea !


----------



## Damz87

Did anyone’s DMP come with the USB cable and cleaning cloth?


----------



## phonomat

Damz87 said:


> Did anyone’s DMP come with the USB cable and cleaning cloth?


Yes, I believe mine did.


----------



## yagislav

Can anybody recommend a good retailer to buy a DMP-Z1 in Canada? Prefer to buy within Canada so I dont get hit with any extra duties / customs fees.


----------



## Whitigir

Damz87 said:


> Did anyone’s DMP come with the USB cable and cleaning cloth?


It comes with exactly all of those shown in the picture


----------



## Damz87

Whitigir said:


> It comes with exactly all of those shown in the picture



Thanks  I had a blonde moment and didn’t realise where they were in the packaging 😂


----------



## Whitigir

Damz87 said:


> Thanks  I had a blonde moment and didn’t realise where they were in the packaging 😂


Congratulation!! About having DMP


----------



## bg4bxp

Anybody using DMP-Z1 as DAC, and connect it with an amplifier for the hifi speaker system at home? 

Since DMP-Z1 has not line out, how to connect with speakers like Genelec G4/G5?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Whitigir

bg4bxp said:


> Anybody using DMP-Z1 as DAC, and connect it with an amplifier for the hifi speaker system at home?
> 
> Since DMP-Z1 has not line out, how to connect with speakers like Genelec G4/G5?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


That is what I do


----------



## bg4bxp

Whitigir said:


> That is what I do



Sounds great Whitigir. Can you share your operation with a picture or some? Thanks again


----------



## roofus

phonomat said:


> Yes, I believe mine did.


Mine did not come with the USB Cable. I can't remember whether or not it came with a cleaning cloth. It's not a big deal, because I have plenty of spares,but at this price point one expects to receive what was promised.


----------



## roofus (Jun 29, 2020)

Damz87 said:


> There’s a Vun Nuys case I think?


There are two models from Van Nuys. I bought one on eBay a while ago.

They are the VD983 and VD984. The VD983 is intended for "Desktop use" whereas the VD984 is for carryng. Both are expensive, but well-made. The VD983 is awkward to use and the removable velcro pieces always seem to be blocking the control knob or the inputs. The VD984 offers good protection and ease of carrying, but the DMP must be removed to use. $400-$550 US.


----------



## roofus

bg4bxp said:


> Anybody using DMP-Z1 as DAC, and connect it with an amplifier for the hifi speaker system at home?
> 
> Since DMP-Z1 has not line out, how to connect with speakers like Genelec G4/G5?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I play the DMP-Z1 through a Linn Kiko system on my desktop and also a Stax SRM8000/009S combo. Works very well from both the balanced and unbalanced outputs. They work just like a "Line Out." 
I am not sure whether the balanced or unbalanced configuration sounds better. Also, I am not sure if it is better to control the volume from the DMP-Z1 or from the amp. I am still listening and comparing. 
With the balanced connection to the Stax headphone amp, I detect a small amount of hum which is not present in the unbalanced configuration. I am trying different  patch cords and grounding methods to see if it can be eliminated.


----------



## bg4bxp

roofus said:


> I play the DMP-Z1 through a Linn Kiko system on my desktop and also a Stax SRM8000/009S combo. Works very well from both the balanced and unbalanced outputs. They work just like a "Line Out."
> I am not sure whether the balanced or unbalanced configuration sounds better. Also, I am not sure if it is better to control the volume from the DMP-Z1 or from the amp. I am still listening and comparing.
> With the balanced connection to the Stax headphone amp, I detect a small amount of hum which is not present in the unbalanced configuration. I am trying different  patch cords and grounding methods to see if it can be eliminated.



Thanks Roofus for your sharing.

I will have a try from my end in Shanghai.

Have a nice day in Canada.

Cheers,

Arthur


----------



## newworld666

Has anybody tried this DMP-Z1 with a Heddphone ?

It looks like power available is falling quite short to move deeply enough an Heddphone => 1500mW@16 ohms is probably sufficient for almost all of usual headphones, but probably not enough in my case. For some DSD 64 or 128, it's definitely not sufficient.

But ... I couldn't find anywhere on the web, if peak output voltage could climb much higher than the 5V used for the 1500mw at 16 Ohms and reach 15V or 18V for some low frequency detailed impacts...which should be sufficient.

So if somebody could try this setup, it would be nice to share some info.


----------



## Whitigir

bg4bxp said:


> Sounds great Whitigir. Can you share your operation with a picture or some? Thanks again


Here is my set up, Low gain and maxed out volume with 4.4. balanced phone out into XLR dual into my Amp


----------



## Facta

Any Android or semi-Android or Android-based portable/transportable DAP that is anywhere close to 90% of DMP-Z1's sonic satisfaction? 1Z is a bit too old now. I see DX220-Max but not many reviews out there.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 5, 2020)

DMP-Z1 is expensive, and that it is for a reason.  I am not sure if you can find anything even remotely close to the engineering aspects of it, let alone the pricing or even 90% performances.

the only thing the DMP Z1 is lacking is just the official line out.  However, using the 4.4 phones out into external amp is still very satisfying


----------



## bg4bxp

Whitigir said:


> Here is my set up, Low gain and maxed out volume with 4.4. balanced phone out into XLR dual into my Amp



What a nice share! Thanks for the update Whitigir  What's your AM model? And is it connected with speakers? If so, what's your speakers model?


----------



## bg4bxp

Facta said:


> Any Android or semi-Android or Android-based portable/transportable DAP that is anywhere close to 90% of DMP-Z1's sonic satisfaction? 1Z is a bit too old now. I see DX220-Max but not many reviews out there.



DMP-Z1 is very very good to me. Not only sound, and engineering, but also the user experience. I like even better than the SP2000...


----------



## Whitigir

bg4bxp said:


> What a nice share! Thanks for the update Whitigir  What's your AM model? And is it connected with speakers? If so, what's your speakers model?


They are AS3000 and _NSF901PN_


----------



## Rob49

@Whitigir i'm still deciding what to add to my audio chain.....never bought a Chord Electronics product & wondered if you'd compared the DMP-Z1 to the Hugo TT2, or TT2 / M Scaler combo ?


----------



## Whitigir

I never tried the Mscaller hooked up with other Chord stuff.  Here is where I would have to ask the same question and waiting for some answers too


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> I never tried the Mscaller hooked up with other Chord stuff.  Here is where I would have to ask the same question and waiting for some answers too



Thanks @Whitigir So you have tried the M Scaler with other products ? I've just had feedback that it improves the Sony TA-ZH1ES 30 - 40% ?? ( Which i own. )
Don't want to derail DMP-Z1 thread, but really trying to finally make my mind up of what to buy ??


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Thanks @Whitigir So you have tried the M Scaler with other products ? I've just had feedback that it improves the Sony TA-ZH1ES 30 - 40% ?? ( Which i own. )
> Don't want to derail DMP-Z1 thread, but really trying to finally make my mind up of what to buy ??


Sorry to disappoint , but that wasn’t me either


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 6, 2020)

When something is good, why not making it better ?


----------



## kp297

This is insane and amazing. I wonder how the designers at Sony would take it that @Whitigir is treating the DMP Z1 like a Subaru


----------



## Whitigir

kp297 said:


> This is insane and amazing. I wonder how the designers at Sony would take it that @Whitigir is treating the DMP Z1 like a Subaru


Sato San is a fan of modifications folks.  He told the story that when he was a little kid, his father bought him a Radio, and he kept tinkering with it, so it became his hobby and enthusiasm, something he loves to do.  That stays with him even until the present days, and that he loves to tinker with stuff .  There was a video of him telling the story a while ago when “signatures series” came out....but I can’t find it now


----------



## Whitigir

All that was collected , and now I can say that my DMP Z1 is exotic all around


----------



## bg4bxp

Whitigir said:


> Sato San is a fan of modifications folks.  He told the story that when he was a little kid, his father bought him a Radio, and he kept tinkering with it, so it became his hobby and enthusiasm, something he loves to do.  That stays with him even until the present days, and that he loves to tinker with stuff .  There was a video of him telling the story a while ago when “signatures series” came out....but I can’t find it now



We need this "insane love" from Sato San & co. This helps produce a world-class product! And as consumers, we benefit from it.


----------



## bg4bxp

Whitigir said:


> All that was collected , and now I can say that my DMP Z1 is exotic all around



What happened with your DMP-Z1, Whitigir?


----------



## Whitigir

bg4bxp said:


> What happened with your DMP-Z1, Whitigir?


Some upgrades happened 

All wires are now High purity Silver and Goldplated with multi strand and counter spiraling constructions, no OFC anymore

Coupling capacitors are now Silmic II and no longer Nichicon Fine gold.  Some pictures here before and after


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Some upgrades happened
> 
> All wires are now High purity Silver and Goldplated with multi strand and counter spiraling constructions, no OFC anymore
> 
> Coupling capacitors are now Silmic II and no longer Nichicon Fine gold.  Some pictures here before and after



I thought you'd been too quietly lately !   

It does amaze me what you EVEN ATTEMPT TO DO !....but you clearly have a background in engineering ??

Perhaps you can share impressions ?

I'm still deciding to pull the trigger on the DMP-Z1 ?? ( Yes, i've been deciding a long time now !  )


----------



## kp297

Rob49 said:


> I thought you'd been too quietly lately !
> 
> It does amaze me what you EVEN ATTEMPT TO DO !....but you clearly have a background in engineering ??
> 
> ...



I leave you with the famous quote from Alfred Lord Tennyson, "'tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all".


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> I leave you with the famous quote from Alfred Lord Tennyson, "'tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all".



Very true !.....but will my "bank account" have any regrets ! ?? ( I was so close to buying last night....so i've got to get through the day...  ) "What's it all about Alfie" !


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 7, 2020)

It took a long time to Map out the upgrades for DMP Z1.  _Literally, every details are thought off from the Engineering teams_, even down to the FT *3rd generation capacitors of Solid Polymer conductors type.*  These guys are custom made and ordered to specifications by Sony, and with the parameters that would surpass or close to normal liquid electrolytic types.  Anyways, without torturing the DMP in pulling and replacing parts, the theories, mapped out thoughts ....etc...are all coming from my experiences of modifications from other devices, with carefully thought out of which specific sections, the how and why on the DMP.

*In the end*, _there are not much to do in the DMP to bring upgrades to it_, and while fooling around too much, *it could even back fire*.  Therefore, what the DMP received are replacing the *Nichicon Fine Gold *series of coupling and decoupling caps *into Silmic II by Elna*, I love this caps, and would prefer it in any systems that I can.  _The rest of the upgrades are to *replace* OFC (oxygen Free Copper) wires from interconnect of signal lines, power supplies, and the main Power lines._

*The improvements are better soundstage presentations, and fidelity*._  It was originally Excellent, and now has surpassed that marks in my own opinions_.  But even at this points, *there will be different views and skeptical people to argues*.  Some people would said that they *prefer Nichicon Fine Gold rather than Silmic II*, and some even said that *Cables don’t improve or change the sound characteristic*.....etc....etc... and to every one who is this much skeptical out there, *I would always agreed that the DMP is a marvelous piece of engineerings*, and is _*the king* of the Digital Music Player system in the modern date, and that *it doesn’t need any “modifications“ to perform* and shines better than many competitor._

*However*, to the *Hardcore enthusiasts*, _upgraded cables do bring better performances_, so upgrading from *OFC into Better materials would elevate* the performances, and the *Coupling capacitors swaps are simply the personal preferences*, and even _Sony engineers has already stated this out loud, in analog amplifications, different usages of Coupling capacitors will bring different characteristics_ to the sound being performed, and therefore the Walkman WM1A/Z series has a DSP effects of *DC-Phase Linearizer* that mimics the different effects of different capacitors in use.  _The effect is observable, and more so in any upgraded Walkman (firmware and hardware wise)._

So, this is what my journey has concluded , to make something the best to become better, and I am super duper happy with my DMP, and all in one system that can serve my HD800S well just as much as IER-Z1R, and the fact that I can bring it around the house or the office to enjoy is “pure bliss”


----------



## Damz87

Whitigir said:


> It took a long time to Map out the upgrades for DMP Z1.  _Literally, every details are thought off from the Engineering teams_, even down to the FT *3rd generation capacitors of Solid Polymer conductors type.*  These guys are custom made and ordered to specifications by Sony, and with the parameters that would surpass or close to normal liquid electrolytic types.  Anyways, without torturing the DMP in pulling and replacing parts, the theories, mapped out thoughts ....etc...are all coming from my experiences of modifications from other devices, with carefully thought out of which specific sections, the how and why on the DMP.
> 
> *In the end*, _there are not much to do in the DMP to bring upgrades to it_, and while fooling around too much, *it could even back fire*.  Therefore, what the DMP received are replacing the *Nichicon Fine a Gold *series of coupling and decoupling caps *into Silmic II by Elna*, I love this caps, and would prefer it in any systems that I can.  _The rest of the upgrades are to *replace* OFC (oxygen Free Copper) wires from interconnect of signal lines, power supplies, and the main Power lines._
> 
> ...



Wow, awesome work as usual @Whitigir  it must sound absolutely phenomenal!!


----------



## Whitigir

This is my desktop system ATM, DMP-Z1EM (Extensively Modified).  

Linear Regulated Power Supply 

HD800S with Solid Silver internally

Litz Ultrapure Silver ultra-Long Crystal (UP-OCC).  Multiple strands and counter spirals constructions.  Furutech and Pentaconn plugs


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> This is my desktop system ATM, DMP-Z1EM (Extensively Modified).



I've got a DMP-Z1HPY ( Haven't Purchased Yet )

( I'm VERY, VERY interested to know how "BAD" sounds @Whitigir ?  )


----------



## Whitigir

LOL! Have you tried to listen to it on some occasions yet ?


----------



## Rob49 (Jul 8, 2020)

Whitigir said:


> LOL! Have you tried to listen to it on some occasions yet ?



No, i'm basically housebound, wheelchair user & i think the nearest Sony dealer closed ?? Everything i buy has to be a blind buy. Perhaps if you tell just how good "BAD" sounds, or more importantly how "different" it sounds, then i might finally take the plunge ! ??


----------



## kp297 (Jul 8, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> No, i'm basically housebound, wheelchair user & i think the nearest Sony dealer closed ?? Everything i buy has to be a blind buy. Perhaps if you tell just how good "BAD" sounds, or more importantly how "different" is sounds, then i might finally take the plunge ! ??



If you don't mind me chiming in, here's the way I look at it. If you can afford it (without duress), it's totally worth it. The DMP is a no compromise work of art and engineering crafted by the very best. Using the unit is a treat every time because I know I'm getting the best and it is from a highly passionate team that were very excited to create a 'price no object' player.

Kinda like the 2020 Tesla Roadster with SpaceX thruster package. Only Tesla could pull that off, and only could a cost no object car like the 2020 Roadster could be equipped with something nuts like thrusters handed down from SpaceX.

edit: @Rob49 There's one left in stock... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07KY8X...OLE&creativeASIN=B07KY8XNWZ&tag=geizhals07-21


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> If you don't mind me chiming in, here's the way I look at it. If you can afford it (without duress), it's totally worth it. The DMP is a no compromise work of art and engineering crafted by the very best. Using the unit is a treat every time because I know I'm getting the best and it is from a highly passionate team that were very excited to create a 'price no object' player.
> 
> Kinda like the 2020 Tesla Roadster with SpaceX thruster package. Only Tesla could pull that off, and only could a cost no object car like the 2020 Roadster could be equipped with something nuts like thrusters handed down from SpaceX.
> 
> edit: @Rob49 There's one left in stock... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07KY8X...OLE&creativeASIN=B07KY8XNWZ&tag=geizhals07-21



Thanks @kp297 i know. I look at it everyday, just come back in stock & that's the cheapest price it's been, by a massive £5 i think ! It's the ( without duress ) bit that does bother me, because even though i can afford it, i may need that money for other things, more important things, in the future ?? As we all know, it's a lot of money.....and i'm also being pulled in by the "dark side", i.e. Chord Electronics.....have you compared any Chord products ??


----------



## kp297 (Jul 8, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> Thanks @kp297 i know. I look at it everyday, just come back in stock & that's the cheapest price it's been, by a massive £5 i think ! It's the ( without duress ) bit that does bother me, because even though i can afford it, i may need that money for other things, more important things, in the future ?? As we all know, it's a lot of money.....and i'm also being pulled in by the "dark side", i.e. Chord Electronics.....have you compared any Chord products ??



I dislike the sound from Chord products, Mojo is the exception. I've heard the Dave + BLU Upscaler, and I didn't like it even though it was the most transparent and technically best. 

There is simply no competition to the DMP Z1, it's not just a unique class of device but sounds truly the best I've listened to.  But DMP Z1 sound is about enjoying the music, not just technical performance.


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> I dislike the sound from Chord products, Mojo is the exception. I've heard the Dave + BLU Upscaler, and I didn't like it even though it was the most transparent and technically best.
> 
> There is simply no competition to the DMP Z1, it's not just a unique class of device but sounds truly the best I've listened to.  But DMP Z1 sound is about enjoying the music, not just technical performance.



Thanks for those further thoughts & your personal comparison @kp297 Can you remind me of your headphones that you mainly use & would you say there's no hint of harshness with the DMP-Z1 100% ??


----------



## Vitaly2017

kp297 said:


> I dislike the sound from Chord products, Mojo is the exception. I've heard the Dave + BLU Upscaler, and I didn't like it even though it was the most transparent and technically best.
> 
> There is simply no competition to the DMP Z1, it's not just a unique class of device but sounds truly the best I've listened to.  But DMP Z1 sound is about enjoying the music, not just technical performance.



Have you compared dmp z1 vs 1z and Ta? How does dmp feels with sound presentation?


----------



## kp297

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for those further thoughts & your personal comparison @kp297 Can you remind me of your headphones that you mainly use & would you say there's no hint of harshness with the DMP-Z1 100% ??


Please see my post on this page https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rank-the-best-sounding-daps-that-you-heard.936707/

I’ve found the DMP doesn’t compound audible issues to songs, my gear doesn’t have much harshness anyway.


----------



## Vitaly2017

If anyone is interested I think I may accept to trade my wm1z Romi for a dmp z1 🤩😍
Thats a 4900 $ in value 🙃🙂 only half of the dmpz1 price LoL 😅


----------



## kp297

Vitaly2017 said:


> Have you compared dmp z1 vs 1z and Ta? How does dmp feels with sound presentation?



During my first week of ownership I noticed the DMP has more work done with the upper frequencies, there’s a lot of sparkle and delicate notes have more energy. The low end on the TA is similar to the DMP, perhaps slightly less bloom. I’m chalking that up to the AK chipset. Can’t say much beyond this as I haven’t listened to the TA in depth for a long time.


----------



## Vitaly2017

kp297 said:


> During my first week of ownership I noticed the DMP has more work done with the upper frequencies, there’s a lot of sparkle and delicate notes have more energy. The low end on the TA is similar to the DMP, perhaps slightly less bloom. I’m chalking that up to the AK chipset. Can’t say much beyond this as I haven’t listened to the TA in depth for a long time.




Hmm such a hard decision while dmp is the big flagship right.
When I was at can jam NY I auditioned the dmp z1 and 1 major thing I couldnt accept was the bass. The bass on 1z is simply wow dmp was to lean and shy . It had definitely all the technical benefits but I didn't got sold on it and 1z was still a more fun. With 1z you ram and jam the music. Dmp z1 was to much audiophile maybe?

I definitely dont like the akm 4497 idea made by sony. 
HEY where is the S-Master !


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> Please see my post on this page https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rank-the-best-sounding-daps-that-you-heard.936707/
> 
> I’ve found the DMP doesn’t compound audible issues to songs, my gear doesn’t have much harshness anyway.



Oh yes, i remember that "lush" photo of your Stellia's....as you know another audio product i've got my eye on ! I think some have described the sound between the notes, as "black" is that your perception ?


----------



## kp297

Rob49 said:


> Oh yes, i remember that "lush" photo of your Stellia's....as you know another audio product i've got my eye on ! I think some have described the sound between the notes, as "black" is that your perception ?


I'm not sure what that means and sounds fairly subjective. What I can say is it's less glaring or less unforgiving than the Utopia's but still has that high resolution sound. There's a reason why I say the Stellia and DMPZ1 has the best synergy, outside of the MDR Z1R which was the headphone the DMP Z1 was developed with.


----------



## Damz87

Vitaly2017 said:


> Hmm such a hard decision while dmp is the big flagship right.
> When I was at can jam NY I auditioned the dmp z1 and 1 major thing I couldnt accept was the bass. The bass on 1z is simply wow dmp was to lean and shy . It had definitely all the technical benefits but I didn't got sold on it and 1z was still a more fun. With 1z you ram and jam the music. Dmp z1 was to much audiophile maybe?
> 
> I definitely dont like the akm 4497 idea made by sony.
> HEY where is the S-Master !



When you demo’d the DMP at canjam was that with the Trio or Noir? Coz with the Noir & 1960s cable the bass is huge on the dmp man! I reckon you’d love it


----------



## Vitaly2017

Damz87 said:


> When you demo’d the DMP at canjam was that with the Trio or Noir? Coz with the Noir & 1960s cable the bass is huge on the dmp man! I reckon you’d love it




Was with trio at that time...
And also with gold plated silver wire... and it had only 4 wires lol

So yea tia noir would be a different ball game for sure.

But I think of it you have the wrong Tia Noir by the way LoL because it has a signature by Vitaliy on it hehe

You need mine ! The one that has tiger ears signature!


----------



## kp297 (Jul 8, 2020)

Vitaly2017 said:


> Hmm such a hard decision while dmp is the big flagship right.
> When I was at can jam NY I auditioned the dmp z1 and 1 major thing I couldnt accept was the bass. The bass on 1z is simply wow dmp was to lean and shy . It had definitely all the technical benefits but I didn't got sold on it and 1z was still a more fun. With 1z you ram and jam the music. Dmp z1 was to much audiophile maybe?
> 
> I definitely dont like the akm 4497 idea made by sony.
> HEY where is the S-Master !



The 'Sony uses AKM, I'm disappointed' issue has been discussed at length by @Whitigir. In fact, I think he was the first to raise that point indignantly. But he owns/mods one now. Power consumption and size was the primary issue and Sony has done a great job considering the dev challenges. But I suggest you look at @Whitigir's comments earlier in this thread, he spoke with the designers about the AKM Issue and you should read it if you haven't already.

EDIT: Page 109


----------



## Damz87

Vitaly2017 said:


> Was with trio at that time...
> And also with gold plated silver wire... and it had only 4 wires lol
> 
> So yea tia noir would be a different ball game for sure.
> ...



Lol, I never got the signature one. Just the regular Noir. The signature one was an extra AUD $2000


----------



## Vitaly2017

Damz87 said:


> Lol, I never got the signature one. Just the regular Noir. The signature one was an extra AUD $2000





Haha someone tried to make me believe that it did sound better then the not signed one 😉🙃


----------



## Damz87

Vitaly2017 said:


> Haha someone tried to make me believe that it did sound better then the not signed one 😉🙃



Lol! If you can try the DMP-Z1 with your current IEM/Cable setup, you may have a different impression of the bass


----------



## Vitaly2017

Damz87 said:


> Lol! If you can try the DMP-Z1 with your current IEM/Cable setup, you may have a different impression of the bass





Ok challenge accepted send me your dmp z1 to Montreal and tiger ears will take good listen to it hahaha

🙃🙃🙃🙃😊😇


----------



## Damz87

Vitaly2017 said:


> Ok challenge accepted send me your dmp z1 to Montreal and tiger ears will take good listen to it hahaha
> 
> 🙃🙃🙃🙃😊😇



Only if we can do a pit stop at @Whitigir for some amazing modifications first 😄


----------



## Whitigir

Damz87 said:


> Only if we can do a pit stop at @Whitigir for some amazing modifications first 😄


Lol, you both need to get a room!! And count me out ! Lol


----------



## bg4bxp

Whitigir said:


> It took a long time to Map out the upgrades for DMP Z1.  _Literally, every details are thought off from the Engineering teams_, even down to the FT *3rd generation capacitors of Solid Polymer conductors type.*  These guys are custom made and ordered to specifications by Sony, and with the parameters that would surpass or close to normal liquid electrolytic types.  Anyways, without torturing the DMP in pulling and replacing parts, the theories, mapped out thoughts ....etc...are all coming from my experiences of modifications from other devices, with carefully thought out of which specific sections, the how and why on the DMP.
> 
> *In the end*, _there are not much to do in the DMP to bring upgrades to it_, and while fooling around too much, *it could even back fire*.  Therefore, what the DMP received are replacing the *Nichicon Fine Gold *series of coupling and decoupling caps *into Silmic II by Elna*, I love this caps, and would prefer it in any systems that I can.  _The rest of the upgrades are to *replace* OFC (oxygen Free Copper) wires from interconnect of signal lines, power supplies, and the main Power lines._
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your journey Whitigir. So is this upgrade reversible? Can you come back using the original cables when needed?


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> I'm not sure what that means and sounds fairly subjective. What I can say is it's less glaring or less unforgiving than the Utopia's but still has that high resolution sound. There's a reason why I say the Stellia and DMPZ1 has the best synergy, outside of the MDR Z1R which was the headphone the DMP Z1 was developed with.



Sorry, i was referring to the "black" background of the DMP-Z1. I think someone also described it as "painting colours with sound". ( Just wish i could hear one..)


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 9, 2020)

bg4bxp said:


> Thanks for sharing your journey Whitigir. So is this upgrade reversible? Can you come back using the original cables when needed?


it is *non reversible*, unless you are very DIY handy
Reversible *only when* you wanted to *reverse the mod*.  There are some cables that is plug and plays, and some are soldered directly on.  But all of them are OFC, except the headphones out that are KimberKables.
It takes a lot of works to perform all of these works.  I don’t see the reason to reverse it


----------



## phonomat

Rob49 said:


> Oh yes, i remember that "lush" photo of your Stellia's....as you know another audio product i've got my eye on ! I think some have described the sound between the notes, as "black" is that your perception ?


Hi Rob, I do indeed find that the DMP-1Z has a very black background. Also, bass is very deep on MDR-Z1R and especially IER-Z1R, and notes have very clear edges around them, don't know how to describe it better. Very good separation I guess. For me, these are the main differences to my WM1A. 
I still can't tell you if that would be worthwhile for you. Personally, I see it more as a luxury item than a normal piece of music listening gear. Honestly, I don't really think it's worth the price of admission, even though it's hard to put a price tag on these things. I can't give you any percentage or anything, but the difference is by no means as huge as the price tag would suggest. Diminishing returns are kicking in quite heavy in this region, and they really make you suffer for these last few percents. In my opinion, you pay a lot for the brand, the bling and the "engineering marvel", which does not necessarily transfer directly to sound quality. So, the way I see it, it's something for "the man who has everything" and a bit of a status symbol. Think of a Rolls-Royce, when a BMW or even a Hyundai would also get you to where you want to be. I guess it's one of those items where the saying applies that if you have to think about the price, it's just not for you. So if you have lots of disposable income, by all means get it. If not, I think there a loads of better ways to spend your money, even in the audio realm. This is not really a sensible purchase. 
It's a bit tricky with Sony, as I feel the WM1A as well as the IER-Z1R are actually quite fairly priced while the MDR-Z1R, the WM1Z and also the DMP-1Z, aren't really IMO. Or let's say you pay a premium that is not necessairly attached to the sound. 

Just my 2 Eurocents, others will disagree, that's just the way it is. In any case, I would advise you to listen to it before you buy it. I know that's not easy, but at least try to find somewhere with an accomodating return policy so you can try it for a while and then decide if it's worth it to you.

As for Chord, I only have a Hugo, but I'd say it sounds rather different, more clinical and sharp, while the Sony is warmer and more "euphonic" as they say. Quite different signatures really.


----------



## Rob49

phonomat said:


> Hi Rob, I do indeed find that the DMP-1Z has a very black background. Also, bass is very deep on MDR-Z1R and especially IER-Z1R, and notes have very clear edges around them, don't know how to describe it better. Very good separation I guess. For me, these are the main differences to my WM1A.
> I still can't tell you if that would be worthwhile for you. Personally, I see it more as a luxury item than a normal piece of music listening gear. Honestly, I don't really think it's worth the price of admission, even though it's hard to put a price tag on these things. I can't give you any percentage or anything, but the difference is by no means as huge as the price tag would suggest. Diminishing returns are kicking in quite heavy in this region, and they really make you suffer for these last few percents. In my opinion, you pay a lot for the brand, the bling and the "engineering marvel", which does not necessarily transfer directly to sound quality. So, the way I see it, it's something for "the man who has everything" and a bit of a status symbol. Think of a Rolls-Royce, when a BMW or even a Hyundai would also get you to where you want to be. I guess it's one of those items where the saying applies that if you have to think about the price, it's just not for you. So if you have lots of disposable income, by all means get it. If not, I think there a loads of better ways to spend your money, even in the audio realm. This is not really a sensible purchase.
> It's a bit tricky with Sony, as I feel the WM1A as well as the IER-Z1R are actually quite fairly priced while the MDR-Z1R, the WM1Z and also the DMP-1Z, aren't really IMO. Or let's say you pay a premium that is not necessairly attached to the sound.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your totally honest, further feedback @phonomat I've been looking at this with my "sensible head", in the last 24hrs & even though i could buy one, at the price, i just think it's too much. If there was another offer like the one from Supersonido, then i would be more tempted to buy.

Did you manage to get rid of the hum on your unit ? I hope so !


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 9, 2020)

Hum ? On a DMP ? I would have returned it.  I have listened to 3 DMP units, and none had any hums


----------



## Vitaly2017

phonomat said:


> Hi Rob, I do indeed find that the DMP-1Z has a very black background. Also, bass is very deep on MDR-Z1R and especially IER-Z1R, and notes have very clear edges around them, don't know how to describe it better. Very good separation I guess. For me, these are the main differences to my WM1A.
> I still can't tell you if that would be worthwhile for you. Personally, I see it more as a luxury item than a normal piece of music listening gear. Honestly, I don't really think it's worth the price of admission, even though it's hard to put a price tag on these things. I can't give you any percentage or anything, but the difference is by no means as huge as the price tag would suggest. Diminishing returns are kicking in quite heavy in this region, and they really make you suffer for these last few percents. In my opinion, you pay a lot for the brand, the bling and the "engineering marvel", which does not necessarily transfer directly to sound quality. So, the way I see it, it's something for "the man who has everything" and a bit of a status symbol. Think of a Rolls-Royce, when a BMW or even a Hyundai would also get you to where you want to be. I guess it's one of those items where the saying applies that if you have to think about the price, it's just not for you. So if you have lots of disposable income, by all means get it. If not, I think there a loads of better ways to spend your money, even in the audio realm. This is not really a sensible purchase.
> It's a bit tricky with Sony, as I feel the WM1A as well as the IER-Z1R are actually quite fairly priced while the MDR-Z1R, the WM1Z and also the DMP-1Z, aren't really IMO. Or let's say you pay a premium that is not necessairly attached to the sound.
> 
> ...





You said everything right man!
Sony is amazing brand and those who want to go beyond roof quality at least can do it and stay a true sony fan boy collecting all their gears....

But 1z vs 1a even if priced twice more I am sorry on that one your not right and 1z sound is much better! And here there is a much less penalty from diminishing returns as you call it.

That was my 2 Canadiancents opinion yep much lower then the 2 eurocents 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## NeoDiNardo (Jul 10, 2020)

This is one sexy Sony device. And I would totally acquire the Sony DMP-Z1 if it was a full multi-input DAC plus a Headphone Amp and Preamp. But it’s really just a excellent transportable digital music player with USB input lag. Sony needs to make more fully featured devices like this with that volume knob.


----------



## Sp12er3 (Jul 11, 2020)

phonomat said:


> Hi Rob, I do indeed find that the DMP-1Z has a very black background. Also, bass is very deep on MDR-Z1R and especially IER-Z1R, and notes have very clear edges around them, don't know how to describe it better. Very good separation I guess. For me, these are the main differences to my WM1A.
> I still can't tell you if that would be worthwhile for you. Personally, I see it more as a luxury item than a normal piece of music listening gear. Honestly, I don't really think it's worth the price of admission, even though it's hard to put a price tag on these things. I can't give you any percentage or anything, but the difference is by no means as huge as the price tag would suggest. Diminishing returns are kicking in quite heavy in this region, and they really make you suffer for these last few percents. In my opinion, you pay a lot for the brand, the bling and the "engineering marvel", which does not necessarily transfer directly to sound quality. So, the way I see it, it's something for "the man who has everything" and a bit of a status symbol. Think of a Rolls-Royce, when a BMW or even a Hyundai would also get you to where you want to be. I guess it's one of those items where the saying applies that if you have to think about the price, it's just not for you. So if you have lots of disposable income, by all means get it. If not, I think there a loads of better ways to spend your money, even in the audio realm. This is not really a sensible purchase.
> It's a bit tricky with Sony, as I feel the WM1A as well as the IER-Z1R are actually quite fairly priced while the MDR-Z1R, the WM1Z and also the DMP-1Z, aren't really IMO. Or let's say you pay a premium that is not necessairly attached to the sound.
> 
> ...


Yeah agree, differing priorities, I for one put a bit more I’m importance comfort, build, and looks. If any of those three doesn’t gell with me, I’m less inclined to own it, no matter how’s good it sounds.
I mean it’s luxury goods, 90% of those are emotional purchase. when you go above certain price, It’d be better I find you like all aspect of the product IMO


----------



## nanaholic

NeoDiNardo said:


> This is one sexy Sony device. And I would totally acquire the Sony DMP-Z1 if it was a full multi-input DAC plus a Headphone Amp and Preamp. But it’s really just a excellent transportable digital music player with USB input lag. Sony needs to make more fully featured devices like this with that volume knob.



The DAC/amp combo in the Signature Series is the TA amp, so the DMP-Z1 wasn’t suppose to overlap with it.


----------



## Whitigir

DMP serves it purposes well, as a Digital Media Player


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> DMP serves it purposes well, as a Digital Media Player



@Whitigir do you think you need a Abyss Diana Phi, to go with your DMP-Z1 ??


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> @Whitigir do you think you need a Abyss Diana Phi, to go with your DMP-Z1 ??


I am more than happy with my 800S.  No need for anything else, really


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> I am more than happy with my 800S.  No need for anything else, really



Are you sure ! ??   

Actually, when i think about it, should i consider a pair of Sennheiser's considering that i loved my 595's many moons ago....i still have them, but with a cracked frame & wonky lead connection...i think i might be getting obsessed with top prices for headphones ??


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> I am more than happy with my 800S.  No need for anything else, really





Where is the bass ! I remember when I had hd800s + idsd black I had bass boost to max hahaha rumbling and shaking the hd800s was so fun and no distortion!


----------



## Whitigir

Vitaly2017 said:


> Where is the bass ! I remember when I had hd800s + idsd black I had bass boost to max hahaha rumbling and shaking the hd800s was so fun and no distortion!


I never had any problems with 800s pumping bass to me


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> I never had any problems with 800s pumping bass to me




Whats fun with hd800s is they can be very tight and visceral that fast bursty bursts of vibrations are something !

It is why I will forever stay on DD side for bass! Its the best for bass. Treble is nice on electrostats. Vocals are like ba and dd mix. Need to creat a new driver hybrid between sony T membrane in ba and the open ba driver style of tia ba!


That would be so top notch crazy!


----------



## NeoDiNardo (Jul 11, 2020)

nanaholic said:


> The DAC/amp combo in the Signature Series is the TA amp, so the DMP-Z1 wasn’t suppose to overlap with it.



I think we have room for a better $5K-ish Sony DAC Headphone Amp (also with a golden pot).


----------



## nanaholic

NeoDiNardo said:


> I think we have room for a better $5K-ish Sony DAC Headphone Amp (also with a golden pot).



Perhaps we will get it when a second generation of Signature products are released with a successor to the TA headphone amp, but it won't be a successor to the DMP-Z1 because that's not what the DMP-Z1 is suppose to be. The DMP-Z1 is always supposed to be a fully standalone local media player and not a component part to a full system.

Judging by how the Sony Signature Series now have one of each item for a TOTL hi-fi experience except a high end turntable (WM1Z Walkman as high end portable DAP, MDR-Z1R as full size headphone, IER-Z1R as high end in ear, TA-ZH1ES as desktop DAC/amp/pre-amp, DMP-Z1 as stand alone music player, SA-Z1 as TOTL active speaker system in a box) I suppose that day may not actually be that far away?


----------



## gsiu33

newworld666 said:


> Has anybody tried this DMP-Z1 with a Heddphone ?
> 
> It looks like power available is falling quite short to move deeply enough an Heddphone => 1500mW@16 ohms is probably sufficient for almost all of usual headphones, but probably not enough in my case. For some DSD 64 or 128, it's definitely not sufficient.
> 
> ...


I am using Sony MDR-Z1R with DMP and pretty satisfied with DSD format, even up to DSD256. I don’t have DSD512 track. Also FYI, I turn the volume to around 10 o’clock and it is already loud enough.


----------



## kp297

A fun glamour shot! Have been using the DMP non stop and enjoying every second of it.


----------



## bg4bxp

gsiu33 said:


> I am using Sony MDR-Z1R with DMP and pretty satisfied with DSD format, even up to DSD256. I don’t have DSD512 track. Also FYI, I turn the volume to around 10 o’clock and it is already loud enough.



I use DMP-Z1 to drive MDR-Z1R & UTOPIA (all in 4.4 balanced line), feeling satisfied with the sound quality and 12 o'clock position is usually the max for me.


----------



## Whitigir

bg4bxp said:


> I use DMP-Z1 to drive MDR-Z1R & UTOPIA (all in 4.4 balanced line), feeling satisfied with the sound quality and 12 o'clock position is usually the max for me.


Is that low gain or high gain ?


----------



## newworld666

gsiu33 said:


> I am using Sony MDR-Z1R with DMP and pretty satisfied with DSD format, even up to DSD256. I don’t have DSD512 track. Also FYI, I turn the volume to around 10 o’clock and it is already loud enough.


 
Z1R like Z7M2 are rather sensitive, so the power of the DMP-Z1, is for sure in the target for those headphones. Heddphone are much more power angry and probably needs some axtra voltage in low frequencies to be move deeply for impacts and stay clear .. Sustain voltage shouldn't be an issue, I am wondering if there are axtra peak voltage avalaible for 20 to 120 Hz needed.


----------



## Whitigir

newworld666 said:


> * I am wondering if there are axtra peak voltage avalaible for 20 to 120 Hz needed.*


There are *5 Super capacitors* inside the DMP serving this purposes, each one to dedicated itself toward a specific sections: DAC processing block, Negative and Positive signals for both channels


----------



## bg4bxp

Whitigir said:


> Is that low gain or high gain ?



Low gain...


----------



## purk

I can confirm that @Whitigir mod DMP-Z1 is indeed better than stock DMP.....because I traded my stock DMP to his modified unit plus cash.  I think his latest mod is a little extensive than what I have now so I may have to send my unit in for more hotroding.


----------



## newworld666

Whitigir said:


> There are *5 Super capacitors* inside the DMP serving this purposes, each one to dedicated itself toward a specific sections: DAC processing block, Negative and Positive signals for both channels


 
It sounds very good to read this !!!
Thank you for the reply ...


----------



## bg4bxp

kp297 said:


> A fun glamour shot! Have been using the DMP non stop and enjoying every second of it.



WOW, this looks very nice. How you "laminate" the LV sticker on the button? Nicely cut!


----------



## kp297

bg4bxp said:


> WOW, this looks very nice. How you "laminate" the LV sticker on the button? Nicely cut!



It's actually a reflection


----------



## Rob49

kp297 said:


> It's actually a reflection



Just think ! It must be a huge help putting that make up on too !  ( Don't smudge it !  )


----------



## Blueoris

kp297 said:


> A fun glamour shot! Have been using the DMP non stop and enjoying every second of it.



Looks cool and I bet it lifts the perception of the audio performance by a notch too


----------



## Whitigir

I use HD800S and while theoretically “low gain” is the best way to use DMP Z1 as there won’t be raised voltage, but for my 800S, “high gain” sound better IMO 
I have seen people asking this questions, and all o can say is that “it depends on your headphones”, but all means nothing if you can not tell the differences anyways “so, uses what you feel comfortable the most with”


----------



## kp297

A sublime combo that must be auditioned, DUNU Luna and DMP Z1.


----------



## Damz87

kp297 said:


> A sublime combo that must be auditioned, DUNU Luna and DMP Z1.



Nice! Would love to try the Luna’s with the DMP. Hopefully one day.

I remember reading a post by DUNU in the Luna thread that even they themselves think the Luna sounds best with a DMP.


----------



## MrWalkman

Whitigir said:


> Don’t be confused,  many other SONY have DSEE-HX.
> 
> The DMP-Z1 *has* a *unique* set of *DSEE*-*HX*.  It has the AI to do a higher processing steps and apply different methods to the sound rather than WM1Z/A, and other Walkmans, they are optional , you have to pick between percussion, vocal, strings....etc...according to that linked interview, this was a move to preserve battery





Kira69 said:


> False. Please @Whitigir get informed.
> 
> 
> Source: https://www.sony.com/en-ae/electronics/walkman/nw-a50-series/specifications
> ...





Whitigir said:


> Thank you, that confirmed what I said.  The DSEE-HX are the same name for many devices, on A series and even Xperia smartphones are only the Standard one (still no option).  The one on DMP-Z1 is Unique.  It utilize more of the AI to analyze and apply different techniques in digital processing toward different types of instruments.  Instead of choosing standard, percussion, female vocal, male vocals , string modes (like WM signature series) , you get them all automatically here on Z1, the WM Walkman had to have those as optional due to battery consumption
> 
> Can you please confirm the battery consumption with and without DSEE HX on Z1 ? It should consume a lot more when On
> 
> ...



Actually, I can confirm that A50 and DMP-Z1 both use the exact same type of Dsee HX AI.

Internally, it's named only Dsee AI.

Sony is gonna release the new WH-1000XM4 headphones with the same feature, Dsee AI.


----------



## Whitigir

How is the aggressiveness of the process ? Are there differences ?


----------



## MrWalkman (Jul 20, 2020)

Whitigir said:


> How is the aggressiveness of the process ? Are there differences ?



Unless there is something more somewhere, which I didn't notice yet, it should be the same.

This being the same on A55 and DMP-Z1 doesn't sound bad to me. In the end it's about how good the players sound.


----------



## Whitigir

MrWalkman said:


> Unless there is something more somewhere, which I didn't notice yet, it should be the same.
> 
> This being the same on A55 and DMP-Z1 doesn't sound bad to me. In the end it's about how good the players sound.


Is there a way to up it processing level ? Would be nice.  Sony mentioned that they did lower the processing down to optimize batteries usage, and that is why I wonder


----------



## MrWalkman

Whitigir said:


> Is there a way to up it processing level ? Would be nice.  Sony mentioned that they did lower the processing down to optimize batteries usage, and that is why I wonder



Unfortunately I can't. You would have to rebuild it from the source, which of course, only Sony has it.

Maybe they just optimized the process so it just won't require as much processing power.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 21, 2020)

I love the DMP Z1 EM too much!!! It is everything that DMP is and elevated further in each aspects, with the exception that the vertical height and depth of staging, dynamic are even more expansive, authoritative and punchy !!
Hands down the best possible solution for compact and carriable Player that can drive headphones such as 800S.

I love 800S a lot and I really have no desire to go with others, mine is internally wires upgraded.  But non the less, I love it ways too much!!

Also, the DMP can be modified to have a line out using additional 4.4mm Balanced out.  But why would I want that when headphones out from 4.4mm can also do the wonderful job at it.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 3, 2020)

Anyone is interested in technical specs.  The DMP Z1 has been measured to the teeth’s.

Jitters is so low with the clocks that have been utilized even in Walkman.

Quote:  _suggesting very low random low-frequency jitter. This excellent jitter rejection was repeated with 24-bit data_

https://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-dmp-z1-digital-music-player-measurements

Full review and measurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-dmp-z1-digital-music-player


----------



## john1711

Whitigir said:


> I love the DMP Z1 EM too much!!! It is everything that DMP is and elevated further in each aspects, with the exception that the vertical height and depth of staging, dynamic are even more expansive, authoritative and punchy !!
> Hands down the best possible solution for compact and carriable Player that can drive headphones such as 800S.
> 
> I love 800S a lot and I really have no desire to go with others, mine is internally wires upgraded.  But non the less, I love it ways too much!!
> ...


What does the EM refer to?


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 5, 2020)

john1711 said:


> What does the EM refer to?


Modified versions with internal wires upgraded throughout and upgraded capacitors.  EM stands for Extensively Modified.  Only the SE end remains with Kimber Kables
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/official-sony-dmp-z1-thread.886122/post-15724037
Here is a picture for General look


----------



## john1711

Thanks for the explanation. Did you perform the modifications yourself and what did it cost?


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 5, 2020)

john1711 said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Did you perform the modifications yourself and what did it cost?


Yes, and it costed me however much parts costs were.  The labor was very intensive though, and the internal wires/cables was the Most expensive


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 7, 2020)

I am impressed by the Van Nuys, very thick padding’s all around, can be configured in different ways, and very solid.  The paddings are so thick that it feels like even upon dropped on a hard pavement, the player would still survive just fine.  Everything is accessible, straps hooks are available for shoulder or back pack strap on


----------



## TerryGantnerFamilyWorkout

I say this in jest but now when I get an email alert from this thread, before even looking at the author of the post, I think - I wonder what Whitigir is showing us now


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 8, 2020)

TerryGantnerFamilyWorkout said:


> I say this in jest but now when I get an email alert from this thread, before even looking at the author of the post, I think - I wonder what Whitigir is showing us now


Active posters/owner is just trying to keep the thread active over here.  I have been trying to ask the thread to be moved into portable source gears instead of Amps, but .... it is still here.  This thing is not an amp....there is no line in anywhere


----------



## Soundfalls

Hello, guys. A head fi newcomer and a music rookie here. 
After reading the specs, I realised that the DMP Z1 actually has more or less similar driving power compared with some of newer high end DAPs like Ibasso 220 max and Kann cube. Can it comfortably drive some of the more power hungry planars such as the Hifiman Arya? Is the sound quality really much more superior as to justify the price and sacrifice in portability compared to the DAPs I mentioned?


----------



## Vitaly2017

i wonder if folks applied a screen protector on their dmp-z1 screen? 

Is there any good temper glass recommendations?


----------



## Whitigir

Vitaly2017 said:


> i wonder if folks applied a screen protector on their dmp-z1 screen?
> 
> Is there any good temper glass recommendations?


Nope, only using the VanNuy case.  Are you getting one ?


----------



## Vitaly2017 (Aug 15, 2020)

Whitigir said:


> Nope, only using the VanNuy case.  Are you getting one ?




Do you know maybe the 1a/1z screen protector can be applied?

What is the size dimensions of the screen? Maybe I can find an alternative screen size protector 

Its a top secret information 😉😛
But I been very quiet lately on headfi 🙃🙂


----------



## Whitigir

I tried but the cut out was very narrow and couldn’t sit flush.  I haven’t tried anything newer


----------



## Vitaly2017

Hmmmm thats unfortunate.  Scratches on a dmp screen is a big oh my god no!


----------



## Whitigir

Vitaly2017 said:


> Hmmmm thats unfortunate.  Scratches on a dmp screen is a big oh my god no!


Why not ? Just replace it LoL!!!

VanNuy case is solid enough that you can take it to go with you as a backpack.  You can even slot in a thin wallets and cards with some cash if wanted


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> Why not ? Just replace it LoL!!!
> 
> VanNuy case is solid enough that you can take it to go with you as a backpack.  You can even slot in a thin wallets and cards with some cash if wanted




Yea but the screen! Fingers go on it... wiping cleaning can and will create microscratches

Need a solution. 
Could you please measure the dimensions of the screen please


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 15, 2020)

Vitaly2017 said:


> Yea but the screen! Fingers go on it... wiping cleaning can and will create microscratches
> 
> Need a solution.
> Could you please measure the dimensions of the screen please


If you scratched the screen then it can be replaced, even if you sent the body chassis as well. 
The whole screen is a little recessed into the chassis like 0.25mm or so.  You just can not find anything that would fit. Unless Sony officially release such for this Odd cut out 

Width is 5Cm and Length is 14Cm


----------



## sanguineburrito (Aug 15, 2020)

Hi, there’s actually a third-party screen protector for the Dmp. It’s a perfect fit. But since the top of Dmp is broken into two sections (screen in the middle and outer section), the screen protector is not flush in those gaps. Doesn’t bother me though. The screen protector was already applied when I purchased the Dmp from another user, so I am not sure where it came from. Probably from China.


----------



## Whitigir

sanguineburrito said:


> Hi, there’s actually a third-party screen protector for the Dmp. It’s a perfect fit. But since the top of Dmp is broken into two sections (screen in the middle and outer section), the screen protector is not flush in those gaps. Doesn’t bother me though. The screen protector was already applied when I purchased the Dmp from another user, so I am not sure where it came from. Probably from China.


That was exactly what I meant, it is like a 0.25mm recessed ....I rather not seeing that bubbles lol


----------



## Vitaly2017 (Aug 15, 2020)

Does the screen part it self where we use our fingers to smudge those areas... is the same size as wm1 ?
Dmp specs stayes the screen is smaller then wm1 daps.

What if I can fit a wm1 screen protector just in top the part where the lcd lights up?

Also could use 2 wm1 screen protectors hehe.  So no bubbles or gaps will be present


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 15, 2020)

Vitaly2017 said:


> Does the screen part it self where we use our fingers to smudge those areas... is the same size as wm1 ?
> Dmp specs stayes the screen is smaller then wm1 daps.
> 
> What if I can fit a wm1 screen protector just in top the part where the lcd lights up?
> ...


It is definitely smaller than 1A/Z
It will fit exactly like that picture above shown ...with bubbles on the sides
The best one you can do is...if you are very handy and skillful....buy thick clear vinyl wraps and custom fit.
Just use a ruler, score a mark (not all the way through) and then pull it away to cut it
It doesn’t bother me enough to have to go to that steps
You can also do that same thing for glass, just use diamond blades and utility knifes, cut it slowly


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> It is definitely smaller than 1A/Z
> It will fit exactly like that picture above shown ...with bubbles on the sides
> The best one you can do is...if you are very handy and skillful....buy thick clear vinyl wraps and custom fit.
> Just use a ruler, score a mark (not all the way through) and then pull it away to cut it
> ...




Bummer you saying the wm1 screen protector is to long on sides?
My wm1 seems to measure 5.5 cm booo


----------



## Whitigir

Vitaly2017 said:


> Bummer you saying the wm1 screen protector is to long on sides?
> My wm1 seems to measure 5.5 cm booo


That is exactly it lmao...just get a VanNuy bro


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> That is exactly it lmao...just get a VanNuy bro




Arrrt why it has to be always the impossible mission dang it!


I really want the screen protector!  Its a must


----------



## Vitaly2017

Hmm maybe zx507 will fit? Or maybe some phones screen protectors might work too


----------



## Whitigir

Vitaly2017 said:


> Hmm maybe zx507 will fit? Or maybe some phones screen protectors might work too


I think the width of the screen on DMP is smaller than every other phones on the market atm


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> I think the width of the screen on DMP is smaller than every other phones on the market atm




I checked the screen specs and probably the zx507 screen protector could fit just fine hopefully...

Zx507 
Dimensions (W x H x D)
2.3 x 4.8 x 0.6" / 57.9 x 122.6 x 14.8 mm


----------



## Whitigir

That is 5.79Cm isn’t it ? For the width, but give it a try man


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> That is 5.79Cm isn’t it ? For the width, but give it a try man




Thats with the body, screen will be smaller hopefully by 0.79 cm 😅😄


----------



## venivici (Aug 17, 2020)

Just got a DMP-Z1, absolutely amazing sound! I would like to ask if it will be beneficial to invest in an AC conditioner like Niagara 1200 and plug DMP-Z1 in to get cleaner power source without using the battery? Thanks


----------



## Vitaly2017

venivici said:


> Just got a DMP-Z1, absolutely amazing sound! I would like to ask if it will be beneficial to invest in an AC conditioner like Niagara 1200 and plug DMP-Z1 in to get cleaner power source without using the battery? Thanks





Good question, but the dmp was designed to use the battery to avoid those issues....   I think it would help if you are trying to avoid the battery usage


----------



## venivici

Vitaly2017 said:


> Good question, but the dmp was designed to use the battery to avoid those issues....   I think it would help if you are trying to avoid the battery usage



yes trying to avoid battery usage


----------



## Whitigir

venivici said:


> Just got a DMP-Z1, absolutely amazing sound! I would like to ask if it will be beneficial to invest in an AC conditioner like Niagara 1200 and plug DMP-Z1 in to get cleaner power source without using the battery? Thanks





Vitaly2017 said:


> Good question, *but the dmp was designed to use the battery to avoid those issues*....   I think it would help if you are trying to avoid the battery usage


Yes, you can.  However, for the caliber of Sony stock charger, you wouldn’t benefit off those conditioners, though it will still alter the sound performances 

Best is to be looking for a Linear Regulated Power Supply if you are trying to preserve the batteries

Nope, DMP Z1 was built with Dual purposes.  In fact, if it was only built for Batteries then it would be cheaper.  The engineers behind this already stated that they almost gave up the ability to switch and “batteries preferred” or AC external supply preferred features as it was almost impossible to implement it flawlessly.

Finally they had it succeeded!!!! *This is what making DMP Z1 unique!!! The desktop performances with the ability to run off the batteries on the go or totally desktop setup with any worthy External Linear regulated power supply *


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 17, 2020)

***noted*** picture of a modified unit
You can see the pictures here.  The DC input is wired directly to the main board that has the ability to controls all power supplies directly.  The DMP Z1 will switch off all Power related by and from Batteries, except the charging functions when you turn off the batteries preferred mode.  The DMP Z1 will automatically goes into AC preferred mode to run off straight and pure external power sources.

Regardless of which power sources, the DMP will always have dedicated power rails into each major chips.  CPU, AK4497EQ, Preamp, and Amp Chips TPA....in additional of Super capacitors for each sinuous signal paths

Unlike other devices, the DMP Z1 will absolutely be cut off from the batteries source when using external power sources....except it will charge the batteries too!


----------



## venivici

Whitigir said:


> However, for the caliber of Sony stock charger, you wouldn’t benefit off those conditioners



Not sure how good the stock charger is...  If not much benefit I'd rather not spend another $1000, as some cheaper conditioners may do the job already.

Also interestingly DMP Z1 does not have save battery feature like the WM1Z (eg. stop charging at 90%). Wondering why that's the case.

Maybe it will be easy to get replacement batteries 5-10 years down the line and all this worry is for naught


----------



## kp297

venivici said:


> Not sure how good the stock charger is...  If not much benefit I'd rather not spend another $1000, as some cheaper conditioners may do the job already.
> 
> Also interestingly DMP Z1 does not have save battery feature like the WM1Z (eg. stop charging at 90%). Wondering why that's the case.
> 
> Maybe it will be easy to get replacement batteries 5-10 years down the line and all this worry is for naught



He may be referring to dedicated HDPlex linear power supplies that you plug DIRECTLY into DMP. 

https://hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-300w-linear-power-supply-for-pc-audio-and-ce-device.html

You can use the 300W model with DMPZ1. It's sold out now, but I believe they go for 500 dollars.


----------



## Whitigir

venivici said:


> Not sure how good the stock charger is...  If not much benefit I'd rather not spend another $1000, as some cheaper conditioners may do the job already.
> 
> Also interestingly DMP Z1 does not have save battery feature like the WM1Z (eg. stop charging at 90%). Wondering why that's the case.
> 
> Maybe it will be easy to get replacement batteries 5-10 years down the line and all this worry is for naught


You don’t exactly need power conditioner with stock charger.  It is of pretty high quality for a switching power supply on the go.  Using power conditioner will alter the sound performances, but whether it is good or bad, it is upto you to observe.

DMP Z1 isn’t exactly battery replacement easy.  Especially the DAC main unit battery as it is soldered directly onto the board as well.  My take is that the battery saver is automatically built in as the DMP has 5 packs that share the same display.


----------



## Whitigir

kp297 said:


> He may be referring to dedicated HDPlex linear power supplies that you plug DIRECTLY into DMP.
> 
> https://hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-300w-linear-power-supply-for-pc-audio-and-ce-device.html
> 
> You can use the 300W model with DMPZ1. It's sold out now, but I believe they go for 500 dollars.


Yes, that is what it is.  Hdplex is one of the affordable solutions and works well with DMP Z1 .  I have 450W version and can confirm it


----------



## Vitaly2017

Oh well Il be using mine in battery mode as its the best sound you can get out of it! Why bother with all those extra stuff.


Dmp-z1 should last forever this thing is the best of everything that sony has to offer. The ultimate desktop Walkman and all in one system!  This is really amazing and very convenient!


----------



## Whitigir

Vitaly2017 said:


> Oh well Il be using mine in battery mode as its the best sound you can get out of it! Why bother with all those extra stuff.
> 
> 
> Dmp-z1 should last forever this thing is the best of everything that sony has to offer. The ultimate desktop Walkman and all in one system!  This is really amazing and very convenient!


Wait until you hear a real dedicated Linear Regulated Power Supply can do .  For now, you gotta listen to it (DMP Z1) first


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> Wait until you hear a real dedicated Linear Regulated Power Supply can do .  For now, you gotta listen to it (DMP Z1) first




I hope to calm my self with dmp acquisition as its starting to be too high in the sky's end game territory. Unachievable unknown to mortals, a place where dmp can show you magic and god him selfs come to have a little chat with you when you put your headphones on lol.

Yeaa I did purchase Dmp-z1 there you go ! Its not a secret anymore! 

I sold all my gear and went full throttle for the best. 

Awaiting for the dmp to be delivered as it takes some time its shipped via boat from Japan


----------



## Whitigir

Vitaly2017 said:


> I hope to calm my self with dmp acquisition as its starting to be too high in the sky's end game territory. Unachievable unknown to mortals, a place where dmp can show you magic and god him selfs come to have a little chat with you when you put your headphones on lol.
> 
> Yeaa I did purchase Dmp-z1 there you go ! Its not a secret anymore!
> 
> ...


Boat ? Why ? You should have been going with express shipment


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> Boat ? Why ? You should have been going with express shipment



It has hazmat batteries, I asked many retailers same story. No one ships this via air due to batteries onboard dmp-z1


----------



## Whitigir

Vitaly2017 said:


> It has hazmat batteries, I asked many retailers same story. No one ships this via air due to batteries onboard dmp-z1


Wait...you must be buying it from China ? Because I don’t think Japan and or Malaysia have this shipping restrictions....or is it a new thing for all Asia ?


----------



## kp297 (Aug 17, 2020)

Vitaly2017 said:


> I hope to calm my self with dmp acquisition as its starting to be too high in the sky's end game territory. Unachievable unknown to mortals, a place where dmp can show you magic and god him selfs come to have a little chat with you when you put your headphones on lol.
> 
> Yeaa I did purchase Dmp-z1 there you go ! Its not a secret anymore!
> 
> ...



Congratulations, you will own the very best audio device created by world class designers and engineers from Sony*. The sound is truly remarkable. As many modern flagship headphones are efficient and don't require much power, DMP can be your last gear. Works perfect with IEMs of all types and modern efficient full size phones. We can't wait to see your pics and impressions.

*Whitigir's DMP takes title for very best audio device. We need to settle for second place!


----------



## jwbrent

Vitaly2017 said:


> I hope to calm my self with dmp acquisition as its starting to be too high in the sky's end game territory. Unachievable unknown to mortals, a place where dmp can show you magic and god him selfs come to have a little chat with you when you put your headphones on lol.
> 
> Yeaa I did purchase Dmp-z1 there you go ! Its not a secret anymore!
> 
> ...



May I ask what the selling price is these days?


----------



## venivici

jwbrent said:


> May I ask what the selling price is these days?



i got it 10% off MRSP recently, not sensational deal but I couldn’t wait lol


----------



## Vitaly2017

kp297 said:


> Congratulations, you will own the very best audio device created by world class designers and engineers from Sony*. The sound is truly remarkable. As many modern flagship headphones are efficient and don't require much power, DMP can be your last gear. Works perfect with IEMs of all types and modern efficient full size phones. We can't wait to see your pics and impressions.
> 
> *Whitigir's DMP takes title for very best audio device. We need to settle for second place!




Thank you for the fantastic encouragements, Indeed it is the worlds best marvel of ingeneering. Dmp has some resemblance with WM1Z but way beyond in sound performance.  I will of course show to everyone my pictures and impressions! It is something very grandiose for me as an upgrade, I never thought I will reach this high in audio nirvana but here it is it has happened! 

Thanks everyone for your support  😋






jwbrent said:


> May I ask what the selling price is these days?





I was one of the lucky  and I have got a super deal. I bought my dmp for 8 000 canadien $ shipped and all fees included ! I couldnt refuse such nice deal.

Its around 5.9k usd


----------



## Vitaly2017

Here is good information on a conversation between the sony team that built dmp-z1 very informative and good to know implementation and how it was built and the concept behind! 

Dmp-z1 according to sony team is the flagship among flagship at sony house!


https://e-earphone.blog/?p=1294529


----------



## Whitigir

Vitaly2017 said:


> Here is good information on a conversation between the sony team that built dmp-z1 very informative and good to know implementation and how it was built and the concept behind!
> 
> Dmp-z1 according to sony team is the flagship among flagship at sony house!
> 
> ...


What had I been telling you  ? Congratulations on the killer deal btw...A steal together with a killer deal!!!! Is there such a term for it ?


----------



## Vitaly2017 (Aug 23, 2020)

Hehe a question for the owners who have their dmp on hands.

Does dmp-z1 has a relay clicks like on 1z lol
And is there also a relay switch from  4.4 and 3.5 I guess not right? For maximum quality its probably direct and independently directed lines?


I am also very curious how focal stelia sound from dmp-z1 would it be a stelar pairing?


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 23, 2020)

Vitaly2017 said:


> Hehe a question for the owners who have their dmp on hands.
> 
> Does dmp-z1 has a relay clicks like on 1z lol
> And is there also a relay switch from  4.4 and 3.5 I guess not right? For maximum quality its probably direct and independently directed lines?
> ...


Why not ? Relay is there for reliability.  It also has auto mute on feature, and volume down to minimum is required when something is changed.  Maximum quality is good, but Sony would never trade quality over reliability.  They will always aim for reliability and serviceability as a priority


----------



## Damz87

Whitigir said:


> Why not ? Relay is there for reliability.  It also has auto mute on feature, and volume down to minimum is required when something is changed.  Maximum quality is good, but Sony would never trade quality over reliability.  They will always aim for reliability and serviceability as a priority



Whitigir, how do you find the iBasso DX220 Max compared to the DMP? I recently pulled the trigger on a Max thanks to @hshock76 ‘s recommendation  he speaks very highly of it. I realise his max is modded so it will be on another level to my incoming stock one, but how would a stock max go against a stock DMP from your perspective?


----------



## Whitigir

Damz87 said:


> Whitigir, how do you find the iBasso DX220 Max compared to the DMP? I recently pulled the trigger on a Max thanks to @hshock76 ‘s recommendation  he speaks very highly of it. I realise his max is modded so it will be on another level to my incoming stock one, but how would a stock max go against a stock DMP from your perspective?


Stock Max is remaining within the category of DAP in comparison to DMP which is like Desktop class category (they are different class).  A modified MAX has some advantages and that brings it closer to DMP, but DMP is still going to be another class and tier beyond a modified Max, especially in ”soundstage, layering, separations, pitch black back grounds”.  The Max is ways better in going places with you than DMP though


----------



## Damz87

Whitigir said:


> Stock Max is remaining within the category of DAP in comparison to DMP which is like Desktop class category (they are different class).  A modified MAX has some advantages and that brings it closer to DMP, but DMP is still going to be another class and tier beyond a modified Max, especially in ”soundstage, layering, separations, pitch black back grounds”.  The Max is ways better in going places with you than DMP though



Thanks man  still looking forward to hearing the max and hoping it will compete with WM1Z as I use streaming, so WM1Z is a bit redundant with dmp


----------



## gerelmx1986

How can a truck driver like @Vitaly2017  afford a €9000 device? Sid you ask your bank for a credit/loan or dis you rob a bank haha?


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 23, 2020)

gerelmx1986 said:


> How can a truck driver like @Vitaly2017  afford a €9000 device? Sid you ask your bank for a credit/loan or dis you rob a bank haha?


why not ? Truck drivers make a lot of money here in the US and Canada, and that is where he is.  It may be different for other regions though.  He already stated that he also is saving a lot of money from the way his truck is gulping down the “fuel”.  Fuel saving is counted by the miles, and miles do add up.  So, over the years, he could have many things for free if he keep up with a good job at “fuel saving”.  Many drivers neglect it, and they don’t realize that they are paying for it


----------



## gerelmx1986

I would like to afford it, sigh, I am working hard to get employed here in Germany. My german test got moved until further notice (coronavirus) and I am also working with a speech language therapist to minimize or hopefully get rid of my stuttering problem,  curiously I stutter almost none in english than when speaking in Spanish or german


----------



## gerelmx1986

Vitaly2017 said:


> It has hazmat batteries, I asked many retailers same story. No one ships this via air due to batteries onboard dmp-z1


I've been there two times in my new home/country... when selling my xperia for parts and when selling my NW-A55 german postal services refuse to ship items with batteries inside, esp. Laptops or cellphones whose battery has a  large mAh count


----------



## Vitaly2017 (Aug 23, 2020)

gerelmx1986 said:


> How can a truck driver like @Vitaly2017  afford a €9000 device? Sid you ask your bank for a credit/loan or dis you rob a bank haha?





Whitigir said:


> why not ? Truck drivers make a lot of money here in the US and Canada, and that is where he is.  It may be different for other regions though.  He already stated that he also is saving a lot of money from the way his truck is gulping down the “fuel”.  Fuel saving is counted by the miles, and miles do add up.  So, over the years, he could have many things for free if he keep up with a good job at “fuel saving”.  Many drivers neglect it, and they don’t realize that they are paying for it





Exactly Whitigir know a little bit more on my life style as we know each other on headfi for some time now. I been mentioning many times that I am not a simple driver, I am an owner operator means I have a company with my own truck that I purchased and for a company with good loads and no downtime on work and also my truck is leased means its also always in top shape and any break downs are covered for free and even towing is included in my monthly fees!

Yes I ordered my truck with super maximum possible fuel savings in comparison my new truck saves around 20 000 to 25 000 canadian $ in fuel a year !!!
So if you count that it makes a huge load of cash in time thats years fly by.

Yes it is very expensive to buy the truck and get into such business but I been in it for 10 years now, from my experience I am making much more money then when I started as a rookie, I double my net revenue!

Of course I am not a millionaire or a rich person but I do make maybe around 80 000 clean salary after all expenses and taxes... so I do make good money but not rich.

I also sold all my Audiophile gear ! And at end I had 7 000$ in canadian and the dmp I purchased was a brand new unit at a price of 8 000 canadian $ so all I had to do is add 1 000$ !!! And hell yea I did it lol ITS DMP






gerelmx1986 said:


> I've been there two times in my new home/country... when selling my xperia for parts and when selling my NW-A55 german postal services refuse to ship items with batteries inside, esp. Laptops or cellphones whose battery has a  large mAh count





Haha yea they are doing the same crap for me here to so I lie to them and say no it has no battery and my daps always get shipped and delivered without any problems.  😁😁😁


----------



## cosplayerkyo

I remember trying the DMP at e-earphone a few times and thought it was neat.  Too expensive though so I went with the wonderful Taz + Wm1a + dock + audioquest carbon cable combo.

Absolutely loved it.  

Then covid happened and I realized I hated sitting in front of my computer all day long for work and all night for work / relaxing.  I wanted to take my setup to other rooms to relax and it was such a hassle.  Tried out a Hugo 2 and liked it but I really have a preference to the Sony sound.  WM1A sounded fantastic but couldn't reach the level that the Taz was doing.  So i would unplug everything, bring the taz and the dock and the cable around and absolutely hated doing it.

DMP makes a lot of sense now.  But ffff its so expensive.  And then i found this thread.  And read it over and over and over and over.  A used DMP popped up and.....




First impressions with the Empyreans, this is definitely better then the Taz combo.  I thought the Taz sounded fantastic but this thing sounds so much clearer.  The bass impact is just another level and the mids....


----------



## Vitaly2017 (Aug 24, 2020)

cosplayerkyo said:


> I remember trying the DMP at e-earphone a few times and thought it was neat.  Too expensive though so I went with the wonderful Taz + Wm1a + dock + audioquest carbon cable combo.
> 
> Absolutely loved it.
> 
> ...




It is, it makes total sense to be on a new level and maybe Id say 3 steps above!

This is the only unit that offers desktop performance on batteries!
It is 100% isolated, no need pc no need for dap and ugly cable that will downgrade the sound quality!

All in one and everything under the same roof. You cant go wrong with dmp for maximum quality isolation and performance. It is the cleanest sound you can get probably!
Heck! Not even the power it self will affect the sound as it has batteries!



@Whitigir 
Do you know if sony made the 4.4mm grounded on dmp or they left the 5th ground connection empty like on 1a/1z?


----------



## Whitigir

cosplayerkyo said:


> I remember trying the DMP at e-earphone a few times and thought it was neat.  Too expensive though so I went with the wonderful Taz + Wm1a + dock + audioquest carbon cable combo.
> 
> Absolutely loved it.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the club!!!

I came through this very same phase as you did. My mind entered an “denial stage” due to the pricing back at CJNYC.  But once I listened to it, my inner voice told me that I wanted it.  My other half consciously went in to search for the reason as of why it is as expensive as it is.  Sony as a revered company with a long history behind it, would not all of a sudden became a “small time rip off” company based on their products, which is based on “subjective preferences”.

Anyways, long story short, I got it and now you do!!! Congratulations


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Vitaly2017 said:


> It is, it makes total sense to be on a new level and maybe Id say 3 steps above!
> 
> This is the only unit that offers desktop performance on batteries!
> It is 100% isolated, no need pc no need for dap and ugly cable that will downgrade the sound quality!
> ...



Yes yes.  After factoring in all the costs to buy another setup, the DMP is a blessing!



Whitigir said:


> Welcome to the club!!!
> 
> I came through this very same phase as you did. My mind entered an “denial stage” due to the pricing back at CJNYC.  But once I listened to it, my inner voice told me that I wanted it.  My other half consciously went in to search for the reason as of why it is as expensive as it is.  Sony as a revered company with a long history behind it, would not all of a sudden became a “small time rip off” company based on their products, which is based on “subjective preferences”.
> 
> Anyways, long story short, I got it and now you do!!! Congratulations



Thank you!!!  I can't tell you how many times I've read through your in depth messages as well as Nanaholic's messages.  Thank you two so much for so much information on the DMP.

Yeah initially the price just made no sense but now my eyes have been opened.  This thing is totallllly worth it.


----------



## Vitaly2017

cosplayerkyo said:


> Yes yes.  After factoring in all the costs to buy another setup, the DMP is a blessing!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Haha I had the same reaction and put dmp-z1 in to no way never to buy list lmao.

And me to I bought one a week ago! Now the waiting time for delivery!


----------



## Whitigir

@Vitaly2017 ground on 4.4mm is not connected


----------



## gerelmx1986

Me wonder if @purk  misses his ex MDR-Z1R after 2 years,  I love them like hell, a lot as I do the IER-Z1R


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> @Vitaly2017 ground on 4.4mm is not connected




Wonder why, maybe it has no practical use?


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 24, 2020)

Vitaly2017 said:


> Wonder why, maybe it has no practical use?


I already posted about it several times.  The main reason is that any cables with ground body will act as an antenna to attract noises.  These noises will be injected toward the ground of the devices which will also contaminate the whole device.  These are portable player, which has no main ground toward AC power outlet to take care of that real issue.
Grounding point on the DMP is so very carefully designed, almost exquisites.  They observed the effects of grounding vs Noises Vs the density and dynamic headroom ....etc.

who would have known How much grounding points can effect the system ? Advertising with FemTo Clock sells better  (and I know which company do so)


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> I already posted about it several times.  The main reason is that any cables with ground body will act as an antenna to attract noises.  These noises will be injected toward the ground of the devices which will also contaminate the whole device.  These are portable player, which has no main ground toward AC power outlet to take care of that real issue.
> Grounding point on the DMP is so very carefully designed, almost exquisites.  They observed the effects of grounding vs Noises Vs the density and dynamic headroom ....etc.
> 
> who would have known How much grounding points can effect the system ? Advertising with FemTo Clock sells better  (and I know which company do so)




Sorry if I asked again 😛 you answered it so thanks. 

Haha are you talking about A&K 😉

This bring me to desktop units, they are using xlr and those are 4 pins too. So means no ground is used there in headphones wires either then?

Only uses probably the ground of wall plug for other purposes. 

So all this idea of the ground is a useless feature then...


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 24, 2020)

Vitaly2017 said:


> Sorry if I asked again 😛 you answered it so thanks.
> 
> Haha are you talking about A&K 😉
> 
> ...


Nope! Actually the XLR 4 and XLR 3 are all standardized for Pro Audio Equipments.  They were meant to be used for a very long connections and designed to be ...for pro ...So, most of them are under the standard, and have ground (pin 1 or body for xlr4) connected.  When you have a cables, you can always opt in or opt out the shielding , and still having it to work just fine

Also, desktop are meant to sit there and connected to the main AC which has main ground connected to drain it away....where as portable player with batteries are not


----------



## cosplayerkyo

@Vitaly2017 i know you were looking for a screen protector?
I did stumble upon this one:  http://global.11st.co.kr/glb/produc...thod=getSellerProductDetail&prdNo=2285972473#


----------



## Vitaly2017

cosplayerkyo said:


> @Vitaly2017 i know you were looking for a screen protector?
> I did stumble upon this one:  http://global.11st.co.kr/glb/produc...thod=getSellerProductDetail&prdNo=2285972473#




Thanks for the info I will investigate into this protector! 

Meanwhile thanks to @Damz87 he took very close measurements of dmp screen and ZX507 and they fit perfectly on to dmp screen touch area!

So I ordered the zx507 screen protector in temper glass it should cover the most critical area.


----------



## bg4bxp

Damz87 said:


> Whitigir, how do you find the iBasso DX220 Max compared to the DMP? I recently pulled the trigger on a Max thanks to @hshock76 ‘s recommendation  he speaks very highly of it. I realise his max is modded so it will be on another level to my incoming stock one, but how would a stock max go against a stock DMP from your perspective?



The iBasso 220 MAX has a good reputation for its sound performance from Audiophiles in China. However, the "User Experience" part is a BIG defect compared with DMPZ1. Or in other words, cannot compare with DMPZ1 at all.


----------



## kp297

bg4bxp said:


> The iBasso 220 MAX has a good reputation for its sound performance from Audiophiles in China. However, the "User Experience" part is a BIG defect compared with DMPZ1. Or in other words, cannot compare with DMPZ1 at all.



Even the engineering is worlds apart when comparing the Sony to iBasso. Sony's custom fine-resistors, careful design of pcb, the structure and materials the DMP is made of, the crack Sony team... It's not fair to iBasso at all. I don't think they have the budget to do something to the level of the DMP.


----------



## Damz87

Thanks for the feedback guys


----------



## Whitigir

bg4bxp said:


> The iBasso 220 MAX has a good reputation for its sound performance from Audiophiles in China. However, the "User Experience" part is a BIG defect compared with DMPZ1. Or in other words, cannot compare with DMPZ1 at all.


Still, the DX220Max is an all in one package for people who love the DMP Z1 concept and want a mini DMP Z1


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> Still, the DX220Max is an all in one package for people who love the DMP Z1 concept and want a mini DMP Z1




Its still not sony and far behind. I wonder how it stands beside 1z technology


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 25, 2020)

Vitaly2017 said:


> Its still not sony and far behind. I wonder how it stands beside 1z technology


It is ways good for the price, and it isn’t bad if spending money and get it modified.....however, it won’t be at the level at DMP Z1 at mainly the (soundstage, separations, layering), but once modified, it has somewhat unique sound signatures to it, the kind that is hybrid between high end tube and high end solid stage.  You can find the impression about a modified Max by a musician. 

Here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...ound-reproduction-new-fw.911378/post-15793617


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 25, 2020)

For people who wondered about DMP Z1 ability to be used with external PSU. *It brings and elevate the performances of DMP Z1 into another level *

The performances can be observed with the differences when you tick off from

Setting >>> Device setting >>> Battery Preferred Unchecked

During this Mode, the player totally switch into External power supply for both “charging circuitry and powering the system as a whole without tapping into the batteries packs at all

The Linear Regulated Power Supply that I recommend anyone to get is the Sigma 11 from AMB.  It is a DIY device, and there are even cheap counterfeit from EBay too...which I do not know how good it can be (I advise people to steer away from them as it would damage AMB as a designer whom designs are free for all of DIY, instead post up in the forum and ask for authentic builder.  Also the advise from the designer is that those are of doubtful quality, and to stay clear off)

Anyways, to buy a LPSU, I recommend HDPlex 250W.  I have 400W and it is fine.  It can’t be as good as the Sigma 11 though but it is better than running off the batteries packs

The sound performances from DMP Z1 with batteries pack VS Sigma 11 is that the DMP Z1 improved vastly in *Vertical presentation of the music, the depth also expand deeper* but with the holographical soundscape to expand in all axis, it is kinda hard to observe.  Nevertheless, the observation of better soundstage is real.
Bass is much more dynamic, punchy, controlled, better textures around the edges and overall textures, better density, bloom and pitch balanced and controls.  Dynamic is vastly improved together with a better senses that everything have better layering with more air and separations.

*Mid*, vocal and details greatly benefit from the improved dynamic, density and power delivery that also raise up the bar for timber’s and pitch accuracy.

*Trebles*Trebles also kicked up another notch for better fidelity, textures, extensions, vivid and sharp yet smooth like butter and Vaseline .
So there are also Pros and cons between Sigma 11 and HDPlex supplies

*Sigma 11:* is powerful, no current limit, small and can be carried around as well.  _But it has to be continuously operating.  It means that *you can not* use Sigma 11 *to charge your player Alone*_.  You can charge and play music together however.  To operate it, it is a little complex.  You will have to turn on the DMP Z1 and make sure it is continuously operational within the windows of 3-5 minutes.  Otherwise the PSU will keeps on pumping/charging and Once your batteries is full, the DMP will want to switch off the supplies, but the PSU will keep on giving and The DMP will be triggered into switching toward the AC mode which results in a current surge from the PSU, and yet after a couple minute the DMP realized that it isn’t playing music, it would turn off and cut off the power again....this keeps on going and the DMP would go into a loop that eventually would kill the batteries as they are over charged and the PSU gave up after so many current surges....etc...So it isn’t a friendly PSU, but downright is the best PsU for DMP if music performances is all that you want
You just need to treat it as a single no batteries player.  *Your PSU on, means the player have to be on....with MUSIC playing. *_I once left it on burn in for 10 days _

*HDPlex*: was meant to design for PC and has current limit controlled with all the other bells and whistles. So it is fool proof while being affordable and still friendly enough with improved performances while saving your batteries as well if you sit at a desk. You can use this PSU to charge your player alone, and once the player switched off, the current control kicked in and the PSU would shut off on that output as well, until the player demand and draw current again.

*The pros about Sigma 11* is that it is DIY and super dedicated, so you can also pick and opt for the components that you love the most and that can effect in benefiting your sound preferences the most. No current limit means no starvations!!! No other useless component to degrade the purity...etc

Picture of Sigma 11 DIY by me with Silmic II, Wima caps, Vishay tighest tolerances Metal film resistors, hand matched transistors, Furutech sockets (main AC input could incorporate Furutech conditioner but it isn’t my cup of tea....I prefer raw power directly), OCC Litz Copper, heatsink is the main chassis with ceramic cooling and ceramic thermal paste, soborthane transformer pad to minimize vibrations and feet’s, upgraded Powercord....except the fuse is Home Depot grade. For more information, please click on here


----------



## gsiu33

I am consider to buy a Linear Regulated Power Supply for the DMP-Z1, but found that the voltage available in the market is 19v. Per Sony spec, it needs 19.5v. Is it okay to get a 19v for DMP-Z1. kindly advise.


----------



## Whitigir

gsiu33 said:


> I am consider to buy a Linear Regulated Power Supply for the DMP-Z1, but found that the voltage available in the market is 19v. Per Sony spec, it needs 19.5v. Is it okay to get a 19v for DMP-Z1. kindly advise.


The closest I have had it working was 20V and 19.2V while making my own PSU.  So given that the tolerances is 10%...you should be safe with 19V, but that is theory.  You can always give it a try


----------



## mungster

Sony engineering! The best!   Still got my 1988 Sony D555. 😁


----------



## mungster

1988 Sony d555  and 1990 mr2 turbo. My  first toys. 😂


----------



## venivici

Any idea if we may have more firmware updates from Sony? or it’s already done? What is on your wish list?


----------



## slumberman

Ok What’s the cheapest place to buy a DMP in Europe ?


----------



## Whitigir

slumberman said:


> Ok What’s the cheapest place to buy a DMP in Europe ?


LOL ? You have been bugged ?


----------



## slumberman

Whitigir said:


> LOL ? You have been bugged ?


Shush! I’m just speaking hypothetically !


----------



## slumberman

slumberman said:


> Shush! I’m just speaking hypothetically !



I could sell the Tazzy, WM1Z and N8 and add a bit of cash...maybe... or maybe not! Lol


----------



## cosplayerkyo

slumberman said:


> I could sell the Tazzy, WM1Z and N8 and add a bit of cash...maybe... or maybe not! Lol



Once the seed has been planted, you can't stop thinking about it


----------



## Vitaly2017

slumberman said:


> I could sell the Tazzy, WM1Z and N8 and add a bit of cash...maybe... or maybe not! Lol




Just do like I did hehe sell it all! And buy dmp-z1! 

If you so wish I can share you my contact for buying gold for less price haha


----------



## slumberman

Vitaly2017 said:


> Just do like I did hehe sell it all! And buy dmp-z1!
> 
> If you so wish I can share you my contact for buying gold for less price haha





Vitaly2017 said:


> Just do like I did hehe sell it all! And buy dmp-z1!
> 
> If you so wish I can share you my contact for buying gold for less price haha



PMed


----------



## Whitigir

cosplayerkyo said:


> Once the seed has been planted, you can't stop thinking about it


I doubt it was planted onto him....unless he listened to it a couple times lol


----------



## slumberman

Ok if anyone wants to sell me a DMP please reach out!!! Any help is appreciated!


----------



## gerelmx1986

slumberman said:


> Ok if anyone wants to sell me a DMP please reach out!!! Any help is appreciated!


Do like @Whitigir  LOL, create a paypal.me link "Donate to me, so that I can buy a DMP-Z1"


----------



## slumberman

gerelmx1986 said:


> Do like @Whitigir  LOL, create a paypal.me link "Donate to me, so that I can buy a DMP-Z1"


haha I'm happy to buy it, but I wouldn't mind find one used or a better deal than the Sony Store. I simply can't buy it straight new form the source!


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 28, 2020)

gerelmx1986 said:


> Do like @Whitigir  LOL, create a paypal.me link "Donate to me, so that I can buy a DMP-Z1"


I proudly buy DMP Z1 myself.  Also modify it too! You know why you don’t see me publishing DIY article on modifying it yet ?
I am glad you see my badge of honor LOL!!!


----------



## cosplayerkyo

How's everyone liking the Van Nuys case?  Not sure how that front part gets in the way of turning the knob?


----------



## Whitigir

cosplayerkyo said:


> How's everyone liking the Van Nuys case?  Not sure how that front part gets in the way of turning the knob?


You can completely take it out.  They are designed to be modular, and yet very secured.


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Whitigir said:


> You can completely take it out.  They are designed to be modular, and yet very secured.



Ah good to know!  Thanks!


----------



## Whitigir

cosplayerkyo said:


> Ah good to know!  Thanks!


Pictures to show


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Niiiice!  Ok that settles that.  Time to hunt one down.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 29, 2020)

cosplayerkyo said:


> Niiiice!  Ok that settles that.  Time to hunt one down.


I totally love this case.  The front straps is for protection of the volume knob when you move around or put it in the back pack.  You can move it however you want.  You can even completely cover it instead of only half


----------



## gsiu33

I am trying the DSEE HX AI feautres now. I used to have Direct Source + DSD Mastering and this is the first time to use DSEE HX AI for 16-bit music. First impression is that it seems better than DSD mastering for 16-bit files.

But I need to turn the volume a bit higher than using the DSD Mastering. Used to at 9-10 o’clock, now is 10-11 o’clock. Anyone know why?


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 29, 2020)

gsiu33 said:


> I am trying the DSEE HX AI feautres now. I used to have Direct Source + DSD Mastering and this is the first time to use DSEE HX AI for 16-bit music. First impression is that it seems better than DSD mastering for 16-bit files.
> 
> But I need to turn the volume a bit higher than using the DSD Mastering. Used to at 9-10 o’clock, now is 10-11 o’clock. Anyone know why?


Eventhough DSEE HX is good and fun, I still don’t use it as much (especially nowadays my library has accumulated of more than red book rate).  This is still pretty good for 44.1/16 though 

First of all, when you turn direct sound off, your volume is dropped down in order to allow headroom for other DSP processing.  So this could be what you asked

Then second of all, the DMP Z1 has dual features , which I will cover in the next post


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 29, 2020)

DMP Z1 is the Sony players that have both Sony ASIC and S/D which is also being produced to be in the very high end category.  I would love to think that it is a dual featured 2+2 systems

*The mode that you are listening with, the Direct On. * This is Sony purest processing path.  It consists from the bit perfect playback by Sony algorithms and with the best filter that it can, and then pass directly into AK4497EQ chips with multi bit PCM and the features from AKM to be taking external filters without adding any further processing to it (though digital filters can still effect it somewhat but merely not noticeable—I guess it is just the nature of Sigma Delta), and simply convert it to analog.  Similar to some systems using FPGA to process the Sigma Delta modulations and utilize the AKM as interfaces with Non Over Sampling features (NOS)...Cayin for an example 
Under this mode, Sony also offer DSD Remastering.  So, DSD remastering is using similar DSP as the above, but apply further high pass filter and high frequencies processing with the last 1 bit stream and output toward AK4497 chips which handles DSD stream perfectly fine (this was one of the main reasons why it was chosen for)

*Direct mode off*
Under this mode , the ASIC from Sony doesn’t process anything DSP conversion wise, it acts as a typical system of a processor and pass all DSP toward the AK4497 chips.  During this processing, before the digital streams are traveling toward the AK chips, it is allowed to add additional DSP processing Such as Upscaling with DSEE or Vinyl Engines, Dynamic normalizer....  Because the DSP conversions are relying on the AK4497, all of the digital filters have a much more pronounced effects than the previous mode.  Some people call this “not bit perfect”, but I would say that if you don’t turn on anything additional, you are just fine.  Unless, Sony decided to allow bit perfect here as a feature....which I doubt.

*the other Dual features* I discussed a few posts previously was the Power supply that are able to be: 100% AC operated or 100% batteries operated


----------



## normie610

Whitigir said:


> DMP Z1 is the Sony players that have both Sony ASIC and S/D which is also being produced to be in the very high end category.  I would love to think that it is a dual featured 2+2 systems
> 
> *The mode that you are listening with, the Direct On. * This is Sony purest processing path.  It consists from the bit perfect playback by Sony algorithms and with the best filter that it can, and then pass directly into AK4497EQ chips with multi bit PCM and the features from AKM to be taking external filters without adding any further processing to it (though digital filters can still effect it somewhat but merely not noticeable—I guess it is just the nature of Sigma Delta), and simply convert it to analog.  Similar to some systems using FPGA to process the Sigma Delta modulations and utilize the AKM as interfaces with Non Over Sampling features (NOS)...Cayin for an example
> Under this mode, Sony also offer DSD Remastering.  So, DSD remastering is using similar DSP as the above, but apply further high pass filter and high frequencies processing with the last 1 bit stream and output toward AK4497 chips which handles DSD stream perfectly fine (this was one of the main reasons why it was chosen for)
> ...



Can it do DSD Remastering with Direct Mode off?


----------



## MrWalkman

normie610 said:


> Can it do DSD Remastering with Direct Mode off?



Actually you have to choose between DSD Remastering or Direct Source. You cannot use them both.


----------



## Whitigir

normie610 said:


> Can it do DSD Remastering with Direct Mode off?


Negative


----------



## gsiu33

MrWalkman said:


> Actually you have to choose between DSD Remastering or Direct Source. You cannot use them both.


You have to choose Direct Source before select the DSD Remastering.


----------



## MrWalkman

gsiu33 said:


> You have to choose Direct Source before select the DSD Remastering.



Ah, right. I remembered it wrong, my bad.


----------



## slumberman

DMP Z1 seems to be out of stock everywhere in Europe. I think this will be a long search, but worth it!


----------



## Whitigir

slumberman said:


> DMP Z1 seems to be out of stock everywhere in Europe. I think this will be a long search, but worth it!


You are really selling everything !!! And is going with DMP.  You may want to consider buying over seas with express shipment ?


----------



## slumberman

Whitigir said:


> You are really selling everything !!! And is going with DMP.  You may want to consider buying over seas with express shipment ?


Unfortunately it seems to be an item with restricted shipping due to the batteries, or at least this is the explanation I am getting.


----------



## sanguineburrito

I came across this interesting video on repairing the DMP gold-plated knob. It’s in Korean, but has eng sub. Just wanted to share


----------



## Whitigir

sanguineburrito said:


> I came across this interesting video on repairing the DMP gold-plated knob. It’s in Korean, but has eng sub. Just wanted to share



Excellent video ! Love it! Thanks for sharing


----------



## Redcarmoose

Whitigir said:


> Excellent video ! Love it! Thanks for sharing



Of course it must be better if the knob is removed prior?


----------



## Whitigir

Redcarmoose said:


> Of course it must be better if the knob is removed prior?


Yes! That is true


----------



## slumberman

I may or may not have just bought one...


----------



## Whitigir

slumberman said:


> I may or may not have just bought one...


We may or may not have to ask to see the pictures


----------



## slumberman

Whitigir said:


> We may or may not have to ask to see the pictures



The wait begins!!!!


----------



## kp297

slumberman said:


> The wait begins!!!!



Congratulations on the DMP!! It will spoil you and leave you wanting when you use anything else.
I leave you with my DMP combo as of late.


----------



## Whitigir

kp297 said:


> Congratulations on the DMP!! It will spoil you and leave you wanting when you use anything else.
> I leave you with my DMP combo as of late.


Lovely combo! great Picture and great cables there


----------



## Gamerlingual

slumberman said:


> The wait begins!!!!


What was your price?


----------



## slumberman

Gamerlingual said:


> What was your price?



I got a friend deal from a Friend’s store,so a little below retail.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Prolly  *£*7500


----------



## slumberman

Gamerlingual said:


> Prolly  *£*7500


I’m not able to say how much I paid sorry. Guessing won’t do anyone any good.


----------



## Gamerlingual

slumberman said:


> I’m not able to say how much I paid sorry. Guessing won’t do anyone any good.


Hence the lack of a question mark. As that’s what I think and saying how much on your side won’t help. C’est la vie


----------



## Ryokan

slumberman said:


> I may or may not have just bought one...





I bet you've got a cat named Schrödinger  .


----------



## MrWalkman (Sep 3, 2020)

Hello,

The stock DMP-Z1 firmware has received a fix, that will allow it show all album cover images.

If you're not familiar with the issue, the firmware will only display baseline JPEG images, or non interlaced PNG ones as album covers. With this fix, all types of JPEG and PNG images will now be shown.


You can download this modified stock fimware here: *CLICK*


Enjoy!

_Note: Before aNyOnE will say "But wait MrWalkman, you said you cannot mod firmwares without owning the device.", this fix doesn't need experimenting/testing, and it's risk free. Thanks for your understanding._


----------



## slumberman

Thank you @MrWalkman ! Outstanding work.

mine question I had :

will I be able to swap microSD between a wm series that’s been updated with your firmware and a non modified one or a non modified DMP, or some of the new image info will be of conflictwith the old firmware?


----------



## MrWalkman (Sep 3, 2020)

slumberman said:


> Thank you @MrWalkman ! Outstanding work.
> 
> mine question I had :
> 
> will I be able to swap microSD between a wm series that’s been updated with your firmware and a non modified one or a non modified DMP, or some of the new image info will be of conflictwith the old firmware?



The fix has nothing to do with the microSD card. It's only a modification of the firmware, that will allow it to also load and show those progressive JPEG or interlaced PNG images.

For example, if you use the normal stock firmware from Sony, and you have a song with a progressive JPEG as cover, the image will not be shown up. If you will install a modified stock firmware that has this fix, then the progressive JPEG image cover of that song will be shown up.


----------



## slumberman

MrWalkman said:


> The fix has nothing to do with the microSD card. It's only a modification of the firmware, that will allow it to also load and show those progressive JPEG or interlaced PNG images.



Got it, thanks again for all your work!


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Speaking of micro sd cards, are the 1tb sizes supported on the DMP?  I'm assuming yes but double checking.


----------



## MrWalkman

cosplayerkyo said:


> Speaking of micro sd cards, are the 1tb sizes supported on the DMP?  I'm assuming yes but double checking.



They are supported on the WM1 players (launched in 2016), so the DMP should support them as well.


----------



## cosplayerkyo

MrWalkman said:


> They are supported on the WM1 players (launched in 2016), so the DMP should support them as well.


Thank you!


----------



## Whitigir

cosplayerkyo said:


> Speaking of micro sd cards, are the 1tb sizes supported on the DMP?  I'm assuming yes but double checking.


I have mine working in there, just out of the box, write music folder and put music in there, no format needed


----------



## Vitaly2017

dmp-z1 256gigs + 2 x micro SD cards of 1tb each damn thats a lot of music


----------



## kp297

One of my favorite go to pairings. DMP Z1, BLON 03 and Lagavulin 16. You gotta hear it to believe it!


----------



## phonomat

MrWalkman said:


> Hello,
> 
> The stock DMP-Z1 firmware has received a fix, that will allow it show all album cover images.
> 
> ...


Thanks, that is great news indeed! I never understood why the Sony players are so terribly finicky with artwork.


----------



## bg4bxp

MrWalkman said:


> Hello,
> 
> The stock DMP-Z1 firmware has received a fix, that will allow it show all album cover images.
> 
> ...



Do you know when this "New" firmware was launched? Do you have a SONY official download link? I cannot download it from your Google dropbox now from mainland China.

Cheers,

Arthur


----------



## MrWalkman

bg4bxp said:


> Do you know when this "New" firmware was launched? Do you have a SONY official download link? I cannot download it from your Google dropbox now from mainland China.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Arthur



The stock firmware was modified by me to have the fix I was mentioning. It's not an official fix.

It's just the stock firmware, but with the ability to load all types of JPG and PNG images.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Vitaly2017 said:


> dmp-z1 256gigs + 2 x micro SD cards of 1tb each damn thats a lot of music


Not far fetched, considering 2TB formatted yields ca. 1.83TB. I am slowly approaching 2TB (formatted) of music at 1.36TB


----------



## Gamerlingual

Vitaly2017 said:


> dmp-z1 256gigs + 2 x micro SD cards of 1tb each damn thats a lot of music


I’m at 18GB. So the DMP-Z1 would hold more than enough for me


----------



## Gamerlingual

cosplayerkyo said:


> Thank you!


What was your price when you bought the DMP-Z1?


----------



## kp297

https://hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-300w-linear-power-supply-for-pc-audio-and-ce-device.html

Up for PRE ORDER! Just ordered mine, free Fedex shipping.
The manufacturer confirms it's 100% compatible with DMP Z1.


----------



## venivici

kp297 said:


> https://hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-300w-linear-power-supply-for-pc-audio-and-ce-device.html
> 
> Up for PRE ORDER! Just ordered mine, free Fedex shipping.
> The manufacturer confirms it's 100% compatible with DMP Z1.



Anyone used HDPlex product before and are they reliable?
Also, what are the steps of using this with DMP Z1? (like does the unit provide a cable that goes into DMP Z1? do you need to follow cetrtain steps to turn on/off this unit and/or DMP Z1?)
Is there a chance of damaging the DMP Z1 by using this linear PSU?
Thanks!!


----------



## kp297 (Sep 15, 2020)

venivici said:


> Anyone used HDPlex product before and are they reliable?
> Also, what are the steps of using this with DMP Z1? (like does the unit provide a cable that goes into DMP Z1? do you need to follow cetrtain steps to turn on/off this unit and/or DMP Z1?)
> Is there a chance of damaging the DMP Z1 by using this linear PSU?
> Thanks!!



Well, I wouldn't pay money for ANYTHING that would damage my DMP Z1. This HDPlex company was recommended by @Whitigir, in my eyes, anything that passes his rigor is a good indicator for quality.

I emailed Larry at HDPlex, explicitly mentioning DMPZ1 and sent him info on the power supply. He confirmed (as Whitigir did) that the device is fully compatible with DMP Z1. What's interesting is that Larry said the bundled cables are compatible with DMPZ1, but I think Whitigir bought an adapter off Amazon.

To use the HD300W:

Connect cable to DC19V outlet on HD300W
Connect to DMP Z1
Flick power switch
You leave it plugged into the DMPZ1 forever as it becomes the main power source. To my knowledge there isn't any extra steps.

In any case, I look forward to receiving this unit, I've seemed to miss previous re stocks as they sell out.


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 15, 2020)

kp297 said:


> Well, I wouldn't pay money for ANYTHING that would damage my DMP Z1. This HDPlex company was recommended by @Whitigir, in my eyes, anything that passes his rigor is a good indicator for quality.
> 
> I emailed Larry at HDPlex, explicitly mentioning DMPZ1 and sent him info on the power supply. He confirmed (as Whitigir did) that the device is fully compatible with DMP Z1. What's interesting is that Larry said the bundled cables are compatible with DMPZ1, but I think Whitigir bought an adapter off Amazon.
> 
> ...


you can request the plug for the DMP, just tell him that you would want *Sony Laptop plugs*!  Otherwise, he only send regular common sizes that requires adapters.  I bought mine off amazon as I didn’t request the plugs 



venivici said:


> Anyone used HDPlex product before and are they reliable?
> Also, what are the steps of using this with DMP Z1? (like does the unit provide a cable that goes into DMP Z1? do you need to follow cetrtain steps to turn on/off this unit and/or DMP Z1?)
> Is there a chance of damaging the DMP Z1 by using this linear PSU?
> Thanks!!



it depends as you may need adapters as mentioned above.

You can use the AC preferred mode to have the DMP-Z1 be driven directly by the PSU instead of batteries preferred mode, which is basically using the PSU as a chargers and the battery is supplying the power sources

This is the adapters that I bought from amazon.  It has others as a package as well
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0797KK3NT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## kp297

Whitigir said:


> you can request the plug for the DMP, just tell him that you would want *Sony Laptop plugs*! Otherwise, he only send regular common sizes that requires adapters. I bought mine off amazon as I didn’t request the plugs
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cheers Whitigir, thanks for the tip!  
I've sent him an email, I can't wait to get my HDPLEX.


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Gamerlingual said:


> What was your price when you bought the DMP-Z1?



I paid $6k for mine.  I've seen it used at e-earphone before for 628,000 yen before so I guess that's what the used price goes for these days?


----------



## venivici

Whitigir said:


> you can request the plug for the DMP, just tell him that you would want *Sony Laptop plugs*! Otherwise, he only send regular common sizes that requires adapters. I bought mine off amazon as I didn’t request the plugs
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thanks - what is the size of the connector for DMP-Z1?  6.4*4.4mm?


----------



## Whitigir

venivici said:


> thanks - what is the size of the connector for DMP-Z1?  6.4*4.4mm?


I didnt measure it actually, all I know is that it is a standard Sony Laptop plug


----------



## kp297 (Sep 15, 2020)

Larry also asked me to confirm 6.4mm x 4.4mm. I assume this is the universal Sony adapter measurements as listed here:

https://amzn.to/32B5BEF

I can confirm when I get my unit.


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 15, 2020)

kp297 said:


> Larry also asked me to confirm 6.4mm x 4.4mm. I assume this is the universal Sony adapter measurements as listed here:
> 
> https://amzn.to/32B5BEF
> 
> I can confirm when I get my unit.


Yeah, that should be it


----------



## sanguineburrito

Whitigir, Sennheiser releases a HD800S anniversary edition to color match your DMP Z1 lol. It’s limited to 750 units.


----------



## Whitigir

sanguineburrito said:


> Whitigir, Sennheiser releases a HD800S anniversary edition to color match your DMP Z1 lol. It’s limited to 750 units.


Good news that I love Senn hd800S for DMP .....sad news....my pocket hurts


----------



## Gamerlingual

Whitigir said:


> Good news that I love Senn hd800S for DMP .....sad news....my pocket hurts


I'm surprised your pocket hurts. Was it because of buying the DMP-Z1? I'm thinking it would make a great addition to the DMP-Z1 with that golden knob. If you can afford it, add some pics as I'm sure they would make for a cool match in the same pic.


----------



## Halimj7

Bismillah

I know this is a subjective opinion...but does anyone think there is anything as compact as the DMP-Z1 that competes with it? Thanks.


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 17, 2020)

Halimj7 said:


> Bismillah
> 
> I know this is a subjective opinion...but does anyone think there is anything as compact as the DMP-Z1 that competes with it? Thanks.


Nothing by far that competes with DMP Z1 at the moment.  Two reasons being, the DMP Z1 is built with every little details that any engineers can think of, which totally dedicated to digital music performances , and the next reason is that the DMP Z1 is also the first of it kind which creates a new category of semi-carriable devices.  It then followed by the Kann Cube...and the recent one is the Ibasso Dx220Max (which is closer to DMP than Kann in technical level).

Pricing aside, if it wasn’t Sony, then we wouldn’t be able to have such a marvelous device.  It can hot swap from batteries into external PSU by itself, and that is pretty crazy


----------



## kp297

Hi folks, I can confirm the power supply listed here https://amzn.to/2RLvNGt works with the DMP, and the power adapter plug size 6.5mm x 4.4mm is compatible.


----------



## Halimj7

Whitigir said:


> Nothing by far that competes with DMP Z1 at the moment.  Two reasons being, the DMP Z1 is built with every little details that any engineers can think of, which totally dedicated to digital music performances , and the next reason is that the DMP Z1 is also the first of it kind which creates a new category of semi-carriable devices.  It then followed by the Kann Cube...and the recent one is the Ibasso Dx220Max (which is closer to DMP than Kann in technical level).
> 
> Pricing aside, if it wasn’t Sony, then we wouldn’t be able to have such a marvelous device.  It can hot swap from batteries into external PSU by itself, and that is pretty crazy



I just cannot imagine a portable that sounds better than the wm1z.


----------



## Gamerlingual (Sep 17, 2020)

Halimj7 said:


> I just cannot imagine a portable that sounds better than the wm1z.


It sounds a little better, there's a bit more natural echo to the instruments and vocals, sort of a concert vs a studio rehearsal with the DMP-Z1. The jump isn't that huge of a gap. The DMP-Z1 has a lot more juice to boost up demanding headphones like the HD820S. If your cans are demanding, then yes, the gap is really big. The NW1Z won't be able to power it much. But if your cans don't have high impedance, the 1Z does give plenty of juice for my MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R. Heck, I use my Focal Clear with the 1Z without a problem. It really is that good. The DMP-Z1 is a technical marvel, but my TA was able to match the sound when I used the Sony Cradle. Sure it's not an all-in-one set up with the TA and people will say it's a big mess. But sounds from both the TA and DMP-Z1 are amazing. I think you're fine just with the 1Z, even if the DMP-Z1 sounds I would say 5 to 10% of an improvement which include my Focal Clear cans. If you wanna buy that extra money for that small gap (or big gap depending on your cans), go for it. Otherwise, the 1Z is for me, is way easy to carry from room to room in your pocket.

Having Yodobashi Camera and E-Earphone in Akihabara along with the Sony Store Ginza can provide lots of opportunities for hours of sampling and you can formulate a solid opinion as they encourage customers to try out the stuff before you buy.

Someday if the DMP-Z1 ever reaches the used price I want it to reach, I'll go for it because it's neat look at and use. The menu is smooth and all. I'm aiming for less than 400,000 yen. It's probably not realistic, but the last thing I want to do is hurt my wallet. Time will tell. If you decide to buy it and you're financially sound, it's a purchase you won't regret. In the same respect, the 1Z in itself is just too good for its small size. Just make sure your funds allow for it because we don't know what will happen with the insanity of this Pandemic. Cheers!


----------



## Halimj7

Gamerlingual said:


> It sounds a little better, there's a bit more natural echo to the instruments and vocals, sort of a concert vs a studio rehearsal with the DMP-Z1. The jump isn't that huge of a gap. The DMP-Z1 has a lot more juice to boost up demanding headphones like the HD820S. If your cans are demanding, then yes, the gap is really big. The NW1Z won't be able to power it much. But if your cans don't have high impedance, the 1Z does give plenty of juice for my MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R. Heck, I use my Focal Clear with the 1Z without a problem. It really is that good. The DMP-Z1 is a technical marvel, but my TA was able to match the sound when I used the Sony Cradle. Sure it's not an all-in-one set up with the TA and people will say it's a big mess. But sounds from both the TA and DMP-Z1 are amazing. I think you're fine just with the 1Z, even if the DMP-Z1 sounds I would say 5 to 10% of an improvement which include my Focal Clear cans. If you wanna buy that extra money for that small gap (or big gap depending on your cans), go for it. Otherwise, the 1Z is for me, is way easy to carry from room to room in your pocket.
> 
> Having Yodobashi Camera and E-Earphone in Akihabara along with the Sony Store Ginza can provide lots of opportunities for hours of sampling and you can formulate a solid opinion as they encourage customers to try out the stuff before you buy.
> 
> Someday if the DMP-Z1 ever reaches the used price I want it to reach, I'll go for it because it's neat look at and use. The menu is smooth and all. I'm aiming for less than 400,000 yen. It's probably not realistic, but the last thing I want to do is hurt my wallet. Time will tell. If you decide to buy it and you're financially sound, it's a purchase you won't regret. In the same respect, the 1Z in itself is just too good for its small size. Just make sure your funds allow for it because we don't know what will happen with the insanity of this Pandemic. Cheers!



Thanks so much for the sound advice. You mentioned a cradle. I thought the cradle only worked with the zx2.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Halimj7 said:


> Thanks so much for the sound advice. You mentioned a cradle. I thought the cradle only worked with the zx2.


Yup, this cradle makes a difference for the 1A and 1Z: https://www.sony.jp/walkman/products/BCR-NWH10/

So that with the TA helps a lot. But I also wonder what the maintenance costs on the DMP-Z1 will be after the warranty expires. Little things like that, if we need to replace parts such as the dual AK4497EQ DACs or the analogue AMP, it could cost at least $600 or more after I contacted a repair shop that it will not be cheap to repair if it ever goes out. It was United Radio. It's about $300 just for labor and before parts, so it's something to consider if we buy this. Although this unit seems very reliable, the initial cost of ownership is a big hurdle for some. Setting aside more money for repairs makes me think if it's a good idea to get.

Time will tell. But whatever you decide again, best wishes. Just the 1Z is PLENTY to have. Enjoy and cheers!


----------



## cosplayerkyo

VanNuys case in  I can see why everyone loves this thing.  It is BEEFY.
Now I don't have to treat this thing like glass lol


----------



## Whitigir

cosplayerkyo said:


> VanNuys case in  I can see why everyone loves this thing.  It is BEEFY.
> Now I don't have to treat this thing like glass lol


Yeah! And you can take it anywhere you want to .  Congratulations!!


----------



## Damz87

Looking for a new open-back headphone to pair with my DMP-Z1... Any recommendations?


----------



## coolhand

Damz87 said:


> Looking for a new open-back headphone to pair with my DMP-Z1... Any recommendations?


ABYSS Diana Phi
... that's what I use 99% of the time with the DMP-Z1, along with a Pentaconn terminated Superconductor cable... a supreme combo IMHO.


----------



## Damz87

coolhand said:


> ABYSS Diana Phi
> ... that's what I use 99% of the time with the DMP-Z1, along with a Pentaconn terminated Superconductor cable... a supreme combo IMHO.



Thanks! The Diana Phi is definitely on my radar  have you by any chance compared it to the v2 and/or 1266?


----------



## coolhand (Oct 5, 2020)

Damz87 said:


> Thanks! The Diana Phi is definitely on my radar  have you by any chance compared it to the v2 and/or 1266?


Neither, but I can offer the following.
You're likely aware that the Phi is the immediate kin to the über fidelity 1266 whilst the V2 is quite specifically voiced to be more forgiving and thus suit less than premium amplification/sources.

DMP-Z1 is most certainly in the upper echelon of premium amplification/sources and effortlessly drives the Phi especially in high gain mode, with absolutely no traces of hardness, strain or sibilant edge whilst simultaneously delivering an iron fist in velvet glove bottom end...

I first ventured into the ABYSS with the Diana V1 and DMP-Z1, the breadth and depth of delivery was far beyond my expectations and almost verged on disbelief at times, such was the intensely satisfying involvement of music with which I was extremely familiar having either recorded, produced and/or mixed.

The Phi simply upped the ante and multiplied the returns...what makes this pair totally bananas is that together they make essentially no concessions to a complete end-game audio system AND can move with you wherever you need to be** 

**For the extra added funk-tionality, I still gotta get me a Van Nuys though !


----------



## Damz87

coolhand said:


> Neither, but I can offer the following.
> You're likely aware that the Phi is the immediate kin to the über fidelity 1266 whilst the V2 is quite specifically voiced to be more forgiving and thus suit less than premium amplification/sources.
> 
> DMP-Z1 is most certainly in the upper echelon of premium amplification/sources and effortlessly drives the Phi especially in high gain mode, with absolutely no traces of hardness, strain or sibilant edge whilst simultaneously delivering an iron fist in velvet glove bottom end...
> ...



Wow! Alright, definitely need to audition the Diana Phi  thanks again! is the superconductor cable a must in your opinion? It's not exactly a cheap cable lol...


----------



## Gamerlingual

Damz87 said:


> Wow! Alright, definitely need to audition the Diana Phi  thanks again! is the superconductor cable a must in your opinion? It's not exactly a cheap cable lol...


Focal Clear. I found them to be better than the Utopia. Plenty of kick, but everything comes together buttery smooth. Best open backs in the market in my view and not so expensive.


----------



## Whitigir

Damz87 said:


> Looking for a new open-back headphone to pair with my DMP-Z1... Any recommendations?


Hd800S Anniversary Edition


----------



## Damz87

Whitigir said:


> Hd800S Anniversary Edition



They do look beautiful  and would aesthetically match perfectly with dmp


----------



## coolhand

If you have an opportunity to audition the Diana Phi be warned, you may shortly thereafter find that your bank balance has decreased accordingly... so plan ahead 

As far as the Superconductor being a must, no, your heart & brain are musts..... a kidney you could sacrifice though !

On the serious side of audio-insanity however, I can only speak on behalf of myself and in my case what was a must was a much longer cable... and ideally one which could directly access the DMP-Z1's Pentaconn to benefit from that balanced connection and the enhanced power output.

Comparing the supplied stock cable to the Superconductor doesn't reveal the supplied cable to be obviously deficient in any specific area, conversely it shows the $$$ cable does indeed enhance the overall delivery presenting an even bigger picture in all respects of sonic presentation. BUT... take that with a grain of salt as this may also be a result of the fact that the Superconductor is utilising the Pentaconn's balanced output circuitry.

Being fully aware of the above consideration I made an elaborate series of premium grade adaptors so that I could also use both of the ABYSS cables completely separate from the headphones in various combinations.
Used purely as line level interconnects in various configurations within my audio system/s, as well as allowing them to be connected (almost) directly to my power amplifiers, enabled me to establish how they intrinsically sounded, the adaptors also gave me the flexibility to drive the Diana Phi from various power amplifier outputs, using the terminals which are typically for connecting to loudspeakers.

When used as interconnects in this manner the differences were easier to ascertain as both cables could be fed from the same output source and directly compared, which interestingly enough showed a much larger margin between their individual sonic deliveries. 
In this scenario the Superconductor proved to be significantly more complete and fulsome sounding, carry more weight and tone without losing the extended definition of the stock cable.

On another relevant note, and without intending to derail this into a Diana Phi focussed thread.....

My experiments with driving Diana Phi directly from numerous types of rather exotic and high fidelity power amplifiers (50w p/ch. push-pull & 8w p/ch. single ended tube), 15w p.ch. & 40w p/ch. Class A solid state) were equally educational, in comparison to them being driven solely from the DMP-Z1's outputs.
One would perhaps expect that grunty amplifiers with upwards of 33 times more raw output (not withstanding the Diana Phi's 32 ohm load impedance being presented to them) would walk right over the DMP-Z1, at least in certain respects where high peak current is demanded as in the case of electronica with prodigious and extended low frequency bass etc....

However this was not entirely the case at all, and certainly not in all instances. 

The DMP-Z1 in high gain mode acquits itself extraordinarily well, presenting masses of information which extends to the extremes of audibility without curtailing or foreshortening perspective, and with a beautifully fine grained sonic rendering (think Kodachrome 64 if you've ever shot film in a camera !).

What I found it to lack _ever so slightly_, and to be honest I am a proper task master when it comes to bass..!.. was quite surprisingly most apparent when driving the Diana Phi from my fully customed Silbatone Reference 300 amp running NOS Western Electric 300B's which is an other-worldly tube amp, quite unlike any others of it's ilk.
It was the only amp at my disposal which fully maintained the entirely grainless, expansive sonic texture and absolutely deep blackness of the DMP-Z1's presentation, whilst adding in a healthy dose of DMT psychedelia ethereal gravitas & enhanced bass power plus spacial detailing.

Each of the other amps I tried were notable in their various commissioning of sonic elements, which ultimately detracted from the finely balanced completeness and zen-like presentation of the DMP-Z1.


----------



## coolhand

Whitigir said:


> Hd800S Anniversary Edition


To be sure to be sure, everybody needs at least one pair of Sennheisers (I have 4 pairs !).... but IMHO the 800S are plainly lacking in sonic terms, my money's waiting on the Senn 888


----------



## Whitigir

coolhand said:


> To be sure to be sure, everybody needs at least one pair of Sennheisers (I have 4 pairs !).... but IMHO the 800S are plainly lacking in sonic terms, my money's waiting on the Senn 888


The 800S Anniversary is different than the regular 800S.  IMO, it has different and improved build with tweaks here and there, and it also sound like an matured/upgraded 800S when A/B

I would love to have S888 or whatever S999 lol


----------



## gsiu33

Whitigir said:


> You can use the AC preferred mode to have the DMP-Z1 be driven directly by the PSU instead of batteries preferred mode, which is basically using the PSU as a chargers and the battery is supplying the power sources
> 
> This is the adapters that I bought from amazon.  It has others as a package as well
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0797KK3NT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


“...the battery is supplying the power sources”, does it mean the PSU keep on charging the battery?


----------



## Whitigir

gsiu33 said:


> “...the battery is supplying the power sources”, does it mean the PSU keep on charging the battery?


There are 2 modes.  In the battery preferred mode, the PSU is charging the batteries.  This mode is recommended to use with stock power supplies as it was designed for the player

Using External power supply, I recommend AC preferred mode


----------



## Fladuken

I had a concerning moment with my DMP just the other day. Had it connected via unbalanced 3.5mm to rca going into my Luxman amplifier. Using high gain with the volume knob at the 12 mark. After about 2 hours of listening, I paused the music then the player froze for about 1 minute. The screen went black and it showed the Sony splash screen. Suggesting it restarted. 

Sounds like it had overheated but the player was only slightly warm to the touch. I've been running low gain since as I don't want to recreate the moment.


----------



## MrWalkman

Fladuken said:


> I had a concerning moment with my DMP just the other day. Had it connected via unbalanced 3.5mm to rca going into my Luxman amplifier. Using high gain with the volume knob at the 12 mark. After about 2 hours of listening, I paused the music then the player froze for about 1 minute. The screen went black and it showed the Sony splash screen. Suggesting it restarted.
> 
> Sounds like it had overheated but the player was only slightly warm to the touch. I've been running low gain since as I don't want to recreate the moment.



Sony Walkman OS players shouldn't restart because of overheating. It most probably just froze from something firmware related and then restarted, that's what they usually do when something like that happens. I wouldn't worry about it.

The best you can do to make sure you can prevent this would be to do a factory reset. But I wouldn't think about that unless this becomes a regular occurrence.


----------



## Fladuken

MrWalkman said:


> Sony Walkman OS players shouldn't restart because of overheating. It most probably just froze from something firmware related and then restarted, that's what they usually do when something like that happens. I wouldn't worry about it.
> 
> The best you can do to make sure you can prevent this would be to do a factory reset. But I wouldn't think about that unless this becomes a regular occurrence.


That sounds more likely. Makes me think when we'll see another firmware update.


----------



## MrWalkman

Fladuken said:


> That sounds more likely. Makes me think when we'll see another firmware update.



It should arrive by the end of the year, if they still intend on releasing firmware updates. Or maybe a bit into the beginning of the next year, as the virus situation delayed lots of things in general.


----------



## Soundfalls

coolhand said:


> Neither, but I can offer the following.
> You're likely aware that the Phi is the immediate kin to the über fidelity 1266 whilst the V2 is quite specifically voiced to be more forgiving and thus suit less than premium amplification/sources.
> 
> DMP-Z1 is most certainly in the upper echelon of premium amplification/sources and effortlessly drives the Phi especially in high gain mode, with absolutely no traces of hardness, strain or sibilant edge whilst simultaneously delivering an iron fist in velvet glove bottom end...
> ...


Thanks for sharing, I have been seriously considering DMP Z1 but was wary about its driving power and compatibility with hard to drive headphones. (compared with desktop amp). This is reassuring.


----------



## Whitigir

Soundfalls said:


> Thanks for sharing, I have been seriously considering DMP Z1 but was wary about its driving power and compatibility with hard to drive headphones. (compared with desktop amp). This is reassuring.


The TPA headphones amp chips inside the DMP is capable of very high voltage and current delivery.  However, the only ways to know if such a large purchase would be justified, is to get to listen to it yourself and on the headphones you prefer.  Period.

Nothing would matter, if it doesn’t sound right and satisfy your own preferences after all


----------



## Soundfalls

Whitigir said:


> The TPA headphones amp chips inside the DMP is capable of very high voltage and current delivery.  However, the only ways to know if such a large purchase would be justified, is to get to listen to it yourself and on the headphones you prefer.  Period.
> 
> Nothing would matter, if it doesn’t sound right and satisfy your own preferences after all


I agree. I have so many things on my wishlist I hope to try first hand. The problem is that I stay in a rather small town with no access to all these high end audiophile stuff locally. I used to have a lot of travelling opportunities but after COVID, this is no longer feasible. Therefore I rely a lot on sharing like this to plan my purchases (which has to be done all online and returning bought merchandise is troublesome).


----------



## gerelmx1986

How does the DMP-Z1  perform with two almost-full 1TB micro SD cards?

Any slow downs?
How many songs can it index?


----------



## Whitigir

gerelmx1986 said:


> How does the DMP-Z1  perform with two almost-full 1TB micro SD cards?
> 
> Any slow downs?
> How many songs can it index?


No slowing down with 1Tb , 512Gb and full internal 240Gb something.  If it is the first time to build library, it could take a while to scan


----------



## kp297

After a long wait, the HDPLEX300W LPSU has finally arrived! I can’t wait for my listening session tonight. Over 20 lbs!


----------



## Whitigir

Congratulation! Beautiful setup for sure


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Congrats!!!  Enjoy the wonderful sound and the transportability!


----------



## gerelmx1986

Lately I've been thinking that the DMP-Z1  could have also looked great in white chassis with grey/silver volume pot


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 19, 2020)

gerelmx1986 said:


> Lately I've been thinking that the DMP-Z1  could have also looked great in white chassis with grey/silver volume pot


That would make it look too cheap.  You gotta go and see them silver with grey vol pot amp or DAC, vs DMP next to it in person.  Picture never done it justices


----------



## Fladuken

gerelmx1986 said:


> Lately I've been thinking that the DMP-Z1  could have also looked great in white chassis with grey/silver volume pot


I don't think that colour scheme would match the rest of the signature series lineup. Interesting though


----------



## Redcarmoose

gerelmx1986 said:


> Lately I've been thinking that the DMP-Z1  could have also looked great in white chassis with grey/silver volume pot


----------



## Gamerlingual

gerelmx1986 said:


> Lately I've been thinking that the DMP-Z1  could have also looked great in white chassis with grey/silver volume pot


That would kill the look entirely. No way


----------



## Damz87

coolhand said:


> Neither, but I can offer the following.
> You're likely aware that the Phi is the immediate kin to the über fidelity 1266 whilst the V2 is quite specifically voiced to be more forgiving and thus suit less than premium amplification/sources.
> 
> DMP-Z1 is most certainly in the upper echelon of premium amplification/sources and effortlessly drives the Phi especially in high gain mode, with absolutely no traces of hardness, strain or sibilant edge whilst simultaneously delivering an iron fist in velvet glove bottom end...
> ...


I took your advice mate, got a Diana Phi on the way  can’t wait to hear this combo for myself!


----------



## gerelmx1986

Fladuken said:


> I don't think that colour scheme would match the rest of the signature series lineup. Interesting though


I thought white glossy/glass-like. See the pioneer XDP-30R in white and picture that in a DMP-Z1


----------



## coolhand

Damz87 said:


> I took your advice mate, got a Diana Phi on the way  can’t wait to hear this combo for myself!


You're obviously a man of exquisite tastes!  

The the truth is that we all have very different tastes, but I do hope you find the pairing as ridiculously enjoyable as I. 

One thing is certain, they take quite a few dozen hours to come fully on song.. Joe at Abyss told me to give them a good and proper thrashing (not exactly his words, but much to that effect!!) before the diaphragms get into stride and they sound their best. 

I gotta say that he was on point too, I most certainly noticed overall improvements and greater bass presence with depth charge like dymanics... If and when called upon! 

IMHO the pairing is truly reference class, as in ne plus ultra Mastering Grade


----------



## Damz87

coolhand said:


> You're obviously a man of exquisite tastes!
> 
> The the truth is that we all have very different tastes, but I do hope you find the pairing as ridiculously enjoyable as I.
> 
> ...



Noted and thank you for the advice  I bought a used pair that are approximately 6 months old, so I am hoping that they are somewhat broken in already, however I will give them my own run in to make sure!

Unfortunately the stock cable that’s coming with my Phi is terminated in XLR, so I’ve bought a Woo Audio XLR4 to 4.4mm adapter. But eventually I’d like to replace the cable with either another stock one with 4.4mm termination, or a superconductor


----------



## Damz87

@coolhand well, you were right my friend. The Diana Phi sounds incredible with the DMP-Z1 

The headphones arrived earlier today and I only had access to an A&K Kann Alpha for the first hour or two of listening. My initial impression of the headphone was a little underwhelming as I felt they sound rather thin and lifeless. But once I switched from the Kann Alpha to the DMP, it was like listening to a completely different headphone. Incredible note weight, detail, bass, vocals, treble, the works!

I’m surprised how well the DMP drives the Diana Phi. I’ve got the volume knob at about 11 o’clock in high gain and that’s pushing my limit to how loud I can listen.

I’ll share more impressions in the coming days, but just wanted to say a big thank you for your recommendation


----------



## bmichels

Damz87 said:


> Noted and thank you for the advice  I bought a used pair that are approximately 6 months old, so I am hoping that they are somewhat broken in already, however I will give them my own run in to make sure!
> 
> Unfortunately the stock cable that’s coming with my Phi is terminated in XLR, so I’ve bought a Woo Audio XLR4 to 4.4mm adapter. But eventually I’d like to replace the cable with either another stock one with 4.4mm termination, or a superconductor



i am happy you enjoy so much your new toy.   Let us know if you upgrade to the *SuperConductor*.  I will be very interested to hear if the cable upgrade is really worthy.


----------



## Damz87

bmichels said:


> i am happy you enjoy so much your new toy.   Let us know if you upgrade to the *SuperConductor*.  I will be very interested to hear if the cable upgrade is really worthy.


I am seriously considering it


----------



## coolhand

Woot-Woot !!
Glad you're diggin' them man 

I rarely venture to recommend anything to anybody, other than that they extensively experiment to arrive at their own conclusions... but IMHO this pairing are an exceedingly copasetic combination which enhance each others individual qualities. So I just had to put it out there, for the more we have a world filled with musically enriched, contented and happy people... the more chances there are of elevating the collective planetary vibration towards a positive, unified love of self and each other.


----------



## Damz87

coolhand said:


> Woot-Woot !!
> Glad you're diggin' them man
> 
> I rarely venture to recommend anything to anybody, other than that they extensively experiment to arrive at their own conclusions... but IMHO this pairing are an exceedingly copasetic combination which enhance each others individual qualities. So I just had to put it out there, for the more we have a world filled with musically enriched, contented and happy people... the more chances there are of elevating the collective planetary vibration towards a positive, unified love of self and each other.


Right on, man! This setup is a crazy amazing musical experience. Absolutely loving it!!


----------



## coolhand

As for the Superconductor cable...if you decide that the Diana Phi are definitely keepers, but you wouldn't find fault with _even more_ refinement, depth of tonality and all that is so agreeable about them already.... the hardest part will be holding out


----------



## Morbideath (Nov 8, 2020)

A bit late to the party. I inherit Whitigir's DMP-Z1EM, both hardware and firmware modded. My pairing is hd800s also modded by Whitigir and a custom EE Legend X SE and custom Sony JE-MH1.
Currently I'm floored by the brand new sonic performance, discovering the 2TB of my music library track by track… running DSD remaster engine in battery mode


----------



## purk

Lucky dude indeed and well deserved!


----------



## Whitigir

Congratulations! Well deserved for sure!


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Congrats!!!


----------



## SHAM CHUN YUEN (Nov 15, 2020)

Dear all, does anybody ever try to hook it up with your hiend system? Using cable from a 4.4 balanced port to RCA analog in, going straightly to your power amp? I am curious to know if it will sound good?
I am about to purchase it using in the above way, would it be worth to do so?


----------



## Whitigir

SHAM CHUN YUEN said:


> Dear all, does anybody ever try to hook it up with your hiend system? Using cable from a 4.4 balanced port to RCA analog in, going straightly to your power amp? I am curious to know if it will sound good?
> I am about to purchase it using in the above way, would it be worth to do so?


You can not go from 4.4mm into RCA.  That is essentially going from Balanced into Single ended and short out 2 signal lines.

You can go from 3.5mm into RCA if you like, but definitely do not do 4.4mm to RCA


----------



## SHAM CHUN YUEN

I see. Thanks much for your reply! So as if I make it a cable from 4.4 to XLR plug instead. That would be logical? 
Moreover, are both outputs 3.5mm & 4.4mm can be worked simultaneously? Always plugging them both and listen to either one when needed. 3.5mm output for my headphones & 4.4mm for my hifi system😁? Thanks!


----------



## Whitigir

SHAM CHUN YUEN said:


> I see. Thanks much for your reply! So as if I make it a cable from 4.4 to XLR plug instead. That would be logical?
> Moreover, are both outputs 3.5mm & 4.4mm can be worked simultaneously? Always plugging them both and listen to either one when needed. 3.5mm output for my headphones & 4.4mm for my hifi system😁? Thanks!


1/ yes, dual XLR-3 from 4.4 is ok.
2/ only 1 of them work at a time due to relays switching.  Never tried both at the same time though. But I am guessing that it is either balanced taking priority or whatever plugged later ? They should be within the firmware


----------



## SHAM CHUN YUEN

Whitigir said:


> 1/ yes, dual XLR-3 from 4.4 is ok.
> 2/ only 1 of them work at a time due to relays switching.  Never tried both at the same time though. But I am guessing that it is either balanced taking priority or whatever plugged later ? They should be within the firmware



I see. Thanks very much for your prompt reply! That's great! But I wonder if anybody have tried using it for hifi system? Would it has enough gain? Or would it sound good?


----------



## SHAM CHUN YUEN

SHAM CHUN YUEN said:


> I see. Thanks very much for your prompt reply! That's great! But I wonder if anybody have tried using it for hifi system? Would it has enough gain? Or would it sound good?


This is the question I doubted for years! But really don't understand why nobody could answer ?! OK then I'd try it out by myself....


----------



## MrWalkman

SHAM CHUN YUEN said:


> This is the question I doubted for years! But really don't understand why nobody could answer ?! OK then I'd try it out by myself....



I guess it's because DMP-Z1 has enough power to drive headphones by itself, without needing to connect it to a Hi-Fi system.


----------



## SHAM CHUN YUEN (Nov 19, 2020)

MrWalkman said:


> I guess it's because DMP-Z1 has enough power to drive headphones by itself, without needing to connect it to a Hi-Fi system.


Well, but I just intend to use for my hifi system. Not keen on headphones etc...
Driving it directly to my power amp, just acts as a source/preamp device


----------



## masahito24@chart

Black Friday mail!!  Picked up 2 cases for different storage options. Waiting for a PLEX300W which should be here sometime in Dec. In the meantime I'll start breaking this beauty in.


----------



## Damz87

masahito24@chart said:


> Black Friday mail!!  Picked up 2 cases for different storage options. Waiting for a PLEX300W which should be here sometime in Dec. In the meantime I'll start breaking this beauty in.


Nice! Haven’t seen the one on the left before. Got a link?


----------



## masahito24@chart

Damz87 said:


> Nice! Haven’t seen the one on the left before. Got a link?



I found it accidently on yahoo auctions japan, but here's the link to Vannuys site: https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/vd956-vd957/ 
Same padding as the convertible case with access covers for the front and rear.


----------



## Damz87

masahito24@chart said:


> I found it accidently on yahoo auctions japan, but here's the link to Vannuys site: https://www.vannuys.co.jp/official/new_item/vd956-vd957/
> Same padding as the convertible case with access covers for the front and rear.


Thanks! Looks like a great case. Might have to try and find one


----------



## masahito24@chart

Damz87 said:


> Thanks! Looks like a great case. Might have to try and find one



No problem. Man, I'm still in awe, the EE Odin really sings out of the 4.4mm.


----------



## Damz87

masahito24@chart said:


> No problem. Man, I'm still in awe, the EE Odin really sings out of the 4.4mm.


Yeah, the Odin is fantastic with DMP  it has such a refined and classy sound.

To be fair, most things I’ve tried sound amazing with the DMP! Lol


----------



## masahito24@chart

Damz87 said:


> Yeah, the Odin is fantastic with DMP  it has such a refined and classy sound.
> 
> To be fair, most things I’ve tried sound amazing with the DMP! Lol



You're right, so far I've tried the Diana Phi, Odin and MEST.  Nothing off putting or distasteful at all, I totally can get used this.


----------



## sanguineburrito (Nov 29, 2020)

masahito24@chart said:


> Black Friday mail!!  Picked up 2 cases for different storage options. Waiting for a PLEX300W which should be here sometime in Dec. In the meantime I'll start breaking this beauty in.


i have the case on the left too. It’s very modular and keeps the dust away from the DMP. But when you use the DMP, it’s better not to have the flap cover the DMP. Because you could forget that the case is actually not yet secured, and the DMP would fall out when you pull the handle.


----------



## sanguineburrito

what headphone cable length do you guys prefer when pairing with the DMP?


----------



## Whitigir

sanguineburrito said:


> what headphone cable length do you guys prefer when pairing with the DMP?


I would get the case with the screen opening.  It is totally portable with a shoulder strap.  You can attach many other pouches to it too!! It depends on what you need practically but anything 1.2 or longer is desirable


----------



## nanaholic

sanguineburrito said:


> what headphone cable length do you guys prefer when pairing with the DMP?



I find 1.2m I find is the best length because I always listen with the Z1 next to me on the desk or on a side table. 
In fact the Sony Kimber cable is too long @ 3m for me so I got shorter cables instead.


----------



## Damz87

Loving this setup!


----------



## sanguineburrito

Damz87 said:


> Loving this setup!


Beautiful setup!
Do you hear more energy, openness, soundstage and bass with the superconductor? Someone in the Diana thread said that stock cable has more clarity. How long is that cable?


----------



## Damz87 (Dec 1, 2020)

sanguineburrito said:


> Beautiful setup!
> Do you hear more energy, openness, soundstage and bass with the superconductor? Someone in the Diana thread said that stock cable has more clarity. How long is that cable?


Yeah, I’d agree with those impressions. It’s subtle, but I can definitely hear a bit more bass depth and an expanded soundstage 

Edit: I can’t tell if the stock cable has better clarity. If it does, it’s minimal at best. But the extra bass depth and soundstage from the superconductor are definitely noticeable. It doesn’t sound like there’s any sacrifice to the overall clarity.


----------



## Damz87

sanguineburrito said:


> Beautiful setup!
> Do you hear more energy, openness, soundstage and bass with the superconductor? Someone in the Diana thread said that stock cable has more clarity. How long is that cable?


Oh sorry I forgot to mention the cable length is 1.5m


----------



## gsiu33

listening to Midnight Blue of Kenny Burrell when it achieved 2,000 hours. Enjoy every single hour.


----------



## purk

I need to use mine more often.  Been super busy at work lately and not much listening time at home.


----------



## gsiu33

purk said:


> I need to use mine more often.  Been super busy at work lately and not much listening time at home.


Due to pandemic, most of the time work at home while listen to DMP-Z1.


----------



## purk

gsiu33 said:


> Due to pandemic, most of the time work at home while listen to DMP-Z1.


Sadly, no such luck for me of working from home.


----------



## masahito24@chart

DMP and Broadway - pairs quite well, I'm absolutely floored how they sound. 
low gain 4.4mm->XLR.


----------



## Whitigir (Dec 2, 2020)

Anyone in the US is interested in the LPSU for the DMP. I am still selling mine


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> Anyone in the US is interested in the LPSU for the DMP.  I am still selling mine


I have one just like this and it worths every penny.  15% jump in performance for your DMP.  It just sound more dynamics and slam a little harder to my ears.  Soundstage opens up even more as well.


----------



## sanguineburrito

Christmas came early


----------



## Damz87

sanguineburrito said:


> Christmas came early


Beautiful! How are you liking the sound?


----------



## sanguineburrito

The build quality is no joke in person. First impression, the sound is pure and musical at the same time. Very refined and detailed. So far I like it a lot! Great synergy with the DMP. I think the sound will get even better after burn in, especially the bass.


----------



## bmichels (Dec 7, 2020)

sanguineburrito said:


> Christmas came early


is this the "super cable" ?  does it really improve sound over the stock cable ?


----------



## sanguineburrito

bmichels said:


> is this the "super cable" ?  does it really improve sound over the stock cable ?


Yes it’s superconductor. I upgraded directly so I don’t have the stock for comparison.


----------



## gsiu33

It is found that, for the same album, a lot of red book FLAC format (DSD Remastering enabled) is better sound than the corresponding DSF format in DMP-Z1


----------



## ming387

Dear DMP-Z1 owners, is this like heaven & earth compared to the WM1A or TA-ZH1ES? 

Does the 4/5x price difference justifies? Is it really that much better?


----------



## Whitigir

ming387 said:


> Dear DMP-Z1 owners, is this like heaven & earth compared to the WM1A or TA-ZH1ES?
> 
> Does the 4/5x price difference justifies? Is it really that much better?


Well, first thing you would hear from DMP vs anything like Walkman would be the Dynamic, then the inner resolutions and then the textures and then the warmth.  They have different signature as TA and Walkman are using S-Master and DMP is using AKM.

Is it worth 4x ? Well, it depends on the way you perceive it values then.  You should give it a listen, comparison, and tell it for yourself.  I have friends who love modified 1Z for portable and loving Z1 for desktop and around the house.

I would say that though, the Z1 is primarily for price is not an objective matters to the buyer, but rather it is the performances and the features


----------



## Rob49

Is the DMP-Z1 even being produced now ?? Not been available on Amazon U.K. for months now...


----------



## slumberman

Rob49 said:


> Is the DMP-Z1 even being produced now ?? Not been available on Amazon U.K. for months now...


Yes, it’s being produced and it’s available for sale in Sony boutiques.


----------



## Gamerlingual

ming387 said:


> Dear DMP-Z1 owners, is this like heaven & earth compared to the WM1A or TA-ZH1ES?
> 
> Does the 4/5x price difference justifies? Is it really that much better?


I did a very comprehensive comparison of the DMP-Z1 vs the WM1Z with the TA and the answer is no. Far from it. You’re much better off listening to the TA in your space and the convenience of the pocket 1Z can be taken anywhere. It’s barely a difference if any at all. I tested the DMP-Z1 for at least 10 hours and it’s not worth it. Save yourself the money and go for the 1Z and TA. You’ll have lots of money left over for high res music. The DMP-Z1 is awesome, but $8k awesome? Nah. Else find a used one for $5k or less and yes, I can recommend it. Keep in mind the maintenance costs if the batteries ever need to get replaced and all the other expensive components inside the DMP-Z1. Gotta think long term for both. Whatever you decide, best wishes. Being here in Japan, the shops in Tokyo offer so many chances to sample players, I consider myself lucky.


----------



## AngloApulian

slumberman said:


> Yes, it’s being produced and it’s available for sale in Sony boutiques.


Here in the UK as has been stated, Amazon haven’t had any stock since some time in September I believe. The Sony boutiques, called Sony Centres here in the UK haven’t had any in stock for a similar amount of time. 

Other European Amazon stores such as Amazon.de, Amazon.at, Amazon.fr, Amazon.es & Amazon.it all currently have none in stock with exception of one being sold as  used from Amazon Warehouse. 

It would definitely appear that at least for the UK and the rest of the European market, there seem to be possible supply chain issues for Sony at the moment. 

I’m not sure if the reason for this is COVID related, but at present it seems very difficult to acquire a new Sony DMP-Z1 in this part of the world.


----------



## slumberman

Gamerlingual said:


> I did a very comprehensive comparison of the DMP-Z1 vs the WM1Z with the TA and the answer is no. Far from it. You’re much better off listening to the TA in your space and the convenience of the pocket 1Z can be taken anywhere. It’s barely a difference if any at all. I tested the DMP-Z1 for at least 10 hours and it’s not worth it. Save yourself the money and go for the 1Z and TA. You’ll have lots of money left over for high res music. The DMP-Z1 is awesome, but $8k awesome? Nah. Else find a used one for $5k or less and yes, I can recommend it. Keep in mind the maintenance costs if the batteries ever need to get replaced and all the other expensive components inside the DMP-Z1. Gotta think long term for both. Whatever you decide, best wishes. Being here in Japan, the shops in Tokyo offer so many chances to sample players, I consider myself lucky.



your opinion, of course.
I own the 1Z , 1A ,and owned the TA. I purchased the DMP and to me there is a noticeable difference which is worth the investment.


----------



## Gamerlingual

slumberman said:


> your opinion, of course.
> I own the 1Z , 1A ,and owned the TA. I purchased the DMP and to me there is a noticeable difference which is worth the investment.


Right back at ya. Cheers


----------



## Damz87 (Jan 17, 2021)

Gamerlingual said:


> It’s barely a difference if any at all.



Sorry but I completely disagree with this particular statement. I own the DMP, TA & WM1Z and they most certainly sound different to each other, to my ears at least. The DMP uses AKM DAC’s compared to S-Master in TA & WM1Z. As @Whitigir said, they have different sound signatures. Perhaps this is harder to perceive with in-store demos, as they generally aren’t ideal listening environments.

Whether that “sound improvement” is worth 4-5 times the cost of a TA, well that is up to the individual and it’s very hard to give a definitive answer because it all depends on each persons budget/other gear/use case but for me personally, I have zero regrets of my purchase and get immense  audio pleasure from my DMP-Z1. In fact, I’m listening to it at this very moment and it’s incredible!


----------



## akãjerovia

Damz87 said:


> Sorry but I completely disagree with this particular statement. I own the DMP, TA & WM1Z and they most certainly sound different to each other, to my ears at least. The DMP uses AKM DAC’s compared to S-Master in TA & WM1Z. As @Whitigir said, they have different sound signatures. Perhaps this is harder to perceive with in-store demos, as they generally aren’t ideal listening environments.
> 
> Whether that “sound improvement” is worth 4-5 times the cost of a TA, well that is up to the individual and it’s very hard to give a definitive answer because it all depends on each persons budget/other gear/use case but for me personally, I have zero regrets of my purchase and get immense  audio pleasure from my DMP-Z1. In fact, I’m listening to it at this very moment and it’s incredible!



Which one pairs better with the MDR Z1R in your opinion?


----------



## Damz87

akãjerovia said:


> Which one pairs better with the MDR Z1R in your opinion?


Definitely the DMP. I prefer the slightly cooler and more energetic tone from DMP compared to the warmer, overly smooth sound from TA. The staging and instrument layering on DMP is also a step up from TA to my ears. It could be due to the blacker background? Not sure. Either way, the Z1R just sounds incredibly expansive, dynamic and balanced from the DMP imho


----------



## Rob49

Damz87 said:


> Sorry but I completely disagree with this particular statement. I own the DMP, TA & WM1Z and they most certainly sound different to each other, to my ears at least. The DMP uses AKM DAC’s compared to S-Master in TA & WM1Z
> 
> Not sure if i will ever own a DMP-Z1 now ?? - but i'm wondering if a FiiO M15 player may be a cheaper option ?? It uses AKM DAC's ( AK4499EQ ) It seems that most reviews are positive, from what i've read ?


----------



## Damz87

Good question, I have no idea how the FiiO M15 sounds unfortunately. Hopefully someone here can chime in. The only FiiO product I’ve tried is the Q5s and that was pretty impressive for its price, especially with the THX amp


----------



## akãjerovia

Damz87 said:


> Definitely the DMP. I prefer the slightly cooler and more energetic tone from DMP compared to the warmer, overly smooth sound from TA. The staging and instrument layering on DMP is also a step up from TA to my ears. It could be due to the blacker background? Not sure. Either way, the Z1R just sounds incredibly expansive, dynamic and balanced from the DMP imho



Thanks man, i wish i had three kidneys. So, the Z1R sounds veiled on the TA?


----------



## cosplayerkyo

I also own a TAZ and a WM1A and can easily say the DMP is on a different level.  

The TAZ tends to be a more laid back warm sound with a huge soundstage.  
The DMP sounds razor sharp, much better separation, this crazy holographic imaging thing going on, all without being fatiguing somehow.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Feb 1, 2021)

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/zen-by-dunu.24863/reviews#item-review-25225


Well, the day finally came where the DAPs could not drive an IEM the best in a certain situation.

My review goes into it and it’s only in an extreme situation but it is true and caused me a bunch of confusion while doing this latest review.

Basically if you have a song with a certain personality, especially demanding of power................there will be an artifact much like a loss of amp damping ability (with full-size) with the Walkmans and the new ZEN IEM. Lucky later I found the TA desktop solved the issue and it was not the actual IEMs causing the slight distortion. Interestingly enough the China forums have been calling the Walkmans underpowered for the IER-Z1R for years. I always thought they were just at the edge of this damping issue, but still fine.

The 13.5mm driver and expanded voice coil along with 1. 8 Tesla (measured at the voice coil) are measurements indicative of the most powerful magnets ever put into an IEM. The magnets are so big they will cause a movement magnetic reaction even when the IEMs are two inches away from each other.

If it was an electrical motor, the motor would be drawing more power than what was sent to make it spin.

The underpowered (damping issue) distortion sounds like if you were to try and drive a hard to drive headphone on a weak amp. It simply sounds like break-up with bass character. Lucky the ZEN is unique in my collection.

Cheers!


----------



## Gamerlingual

The impedance is only 16 Ohm. Wow, that's crazy.


----------



## Vitaly2017

Redcarmoose said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/zen-by-dunu.24863/reviews#item-review-25225
> 
> 
> Well, the day finally came where the DAPs could not drive an IEM the best in a certain situation.
> ...




Well how is that possible, the specs are perfectly suited for 1z to bring out full power of the amp as both are set to 16 ohm output and the dunu is pretty sensitive at 112!

What did you find wrong? What distortion did you got?


----------



## Whitigir

Vitaly2017 said:


> Well how is that possible, the specs are perfectly suited for 1z to bring out full power of the amp as both are set to 16 ohm output and the dunu is pretty sensitive at 112!
> 
> What did you find wrong? What distortion did you got?


Tiger, the ability to drive dynamic stuff to “Loudness” is very different than “finesses” to delivery .  Once you realize it, it will never go away LOL


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> Tiger, the ability to drive dynamic stuff to “Loudness” is very different than “finesses” to delivery .  Once you realize it, it will never go away LOL



Well lol we need quality not loudness 😄


----------



## Redcarmoose

Vitaly2017 said:


> Well how is that possible, the specs are perfectly suited for 1z to bring out full power of the amp as both are set to 16 ohm output and the dunu is pretty sensitive at 112!
> 
> What did you find wrong? What distortion did you got?



Don’t know if I made it clear in the post. It really has nothing to do with real life use. Meaning nothing here to diminish the value of the 1Z or ZEN IEM. It was only a very small section of one single song out of millions of songs. But just the fact that it took place was amusing. 

The song is....







Also you may be able to hear other DAPs struggle with the replay. There is just a very strong bass presentation, like some kind of synthetic treatment to the bass. I was using the 24bit file. And mind you, you would probably need the ZEN IEM to discover it, and a DAP preferably a Walkman. And it’s only in a couple but drum hits at the end. You will start guessing it’s in the recording or in the IEMs but it’s not it is damping failure in the amp if you recreate it. Taking the song to the TA desktop cured the issue. 

Cheers. Probably will never happen again?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Feb 1, 2021)

I’m super keyed into damping issues as in 2006 I purchased the low power Woo 3 tube amp and the AKG k701 (hard to drive) headphones.

Needless to say the bass sounded like a belt sander.


----------



## Whitigir

Redcarmoose said:


> Don’t know if I made it clear in the post. It really has nothing to do with real life use. Meaning nothing here to diminish the value of the 1Z or ZEN IEM. It was only a very small section of one single song out of millions of songs. But just the fact that it took place was amusing.
> 
> The song is....
> 
> ...



Love Nightwish, don’t tell me you listened to YouTube through LDAC LOL!  When the dynamic range get too far....the S-Master will show it limitations, and that is why Sony was looking into GAN-FET technology for SA-Z1 system .  At least you have good ears ! And judgements, now the wait for whenever the successor to come out....or.....whether it will LOL


----------



## Redcarmoose

Whitigir said:


> Love Nightwish, don’t tell me you listened to YouTube through LDAC LOL!  When the dynamic range get too far....the S-Master will show it limitations, and that is why Sony was looking into GAN-FET technology for SA-Z1 system .  At least you have good ears ! And judgements, now the wait for whenever the successor to come out....or.....whether it will LOL



You did not read my post......24bit noted.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Feb 1, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Love Nightwish, don’t tell me you listened to YouTube through LDAC LOL!  When the dynamic range get too far....the S-Master will show it limitations, and that is why Sony was looking into GAN-FET technology for SA-Z1 system .  At least you have good ears ! And judgements, now the wait for whenever the successor to come out....or.....whether it will LOL




But yes. Thank-you. It’s hard to believe, and hard to document and passing like the wind. Wait? That didn’t sound right?

Like passing gas. It sounded like passing gas.


----------



## Whitigir

Redcarmoose said:


> You did not read my post......24bit noted.


Was a joke my friend, since everyone just link their track from YouTube LOL


----------



## Vitaly2017

Redcarmoose said:


> Don’t know if I made it clear in the post. It really has nothing to do with real life use. Meaning nothing here to diminish the value of the 1Z or ZEN IEM. It was only a very small section of one single song out of millions of songs. But just the fact that it took place was amusing.
> 
> The song is....
> 
> ...





I didn't detect anything abnormal on spotify and usb dac to M8

Is this the song?


----------



## Whitigir

Let’s reserve the place for DMP - Z1 the player


----------



## Vitaly2017

Whitigir said:


> Let’s reserve the place for DMP - Z1 the player




It been to quiet had to bring some talking 😃


----------



## MrWalkman

Whitigir said:


> Love Nightwish, don’t tell me you listened to YouTube through LDAC LOL!





Whitigir said:


> Was a joke my friend, since everyone just link their track from YouTube LOL



Sounded more like realizing he actually mentioned that he played a 24 bit file, and then you passed it as a joke LOL


The next non-Android Walkman player should be awesome!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Whitigir said:


> Let’s reserve the place for DMP - Z1 the player


But no one posts anything?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Vitaly2017 said:


> I didn't detect anything abnormal on spotify and usb dac to M8
> 
> Is this the song?




Yes.


----------



## Vitaly2017

MrWalkman said:


> Sounded more like realizing he actually mentioned that he played a 24 bit file, and then you passed it as a joke LOL
> 
> 
> The next non-Android Walkman player should be awesome!




I want next dap to be flagship and android how is that 😄🤠😃


----------



## MrWalkman

Vitaly2017 said:


> I want next dap to be flagship and android how is that 😄🤠😃



Why are you asking me how is that, lol? Your wishes are your business.


Myself I said "the next non-Android Walkman", and not that the next Walkman will be non-Android, so I don't really get your question.

They won't just abandon the non-Android ones and never release another.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Wonder when that will be as new ones in full production still? 


Vitaly2017 said:


> I want next dap to be flagship and android how is that 😄🤠😃


----------



## Vitaly2017

MrWalkman said:


> Why are you asking me how is that, lol? Your wishes are your business.
> 
> 
> Myself I said "the next non-Android Walkman", and not that the next Walkman will be non-Android, so I don't really get your question.
> ...




I just want sony to release a flagship android dap!
Zx507 didnt make it to that level....

I am fine if they release 2 daps 1 android and 1 like 1z...
But gosh I want streaming please and totl dap not zx507....
Zx507 is a zx300 upgrade


----------



## AngloApulian

Hi everyone, 

I was just wondering if those of you that either own or have had considerable listening time with the Sony DMP-Z1 could please tell me how the DMP-Z1 compares in terms of sound quality to a good electrostatic headphone system? 

It’s difficult to be able to experience any demos here in the UK as we’re in lockdown at the moment, not to mention that there would be no where at present to be able to demo the Sony DMP-Z1 as it isn’t in stock anywhere in the UK right now and hasn’t been in stock for months. 

I’d be grateful for your opinions please. 

Thanks.


----------



## Whitigir

AngloApulian said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was just wondering if those of you that either own or have had considerable listening time with the Sony DMP-Z1 could please tell me how the DMP-Z1 compares in terms of sound quality to a good electrostatic headphone system?
> 
> ...


The only e-Star system I know that has DAC built in is Orpheous and MkII.  Otherwise, the DMP is just a Digital player, you can use it as line out if you would have wanted and into other E-Stats systems that normally has only a phones and amp


----------



## AngloApulian

Whitigir said:


> The only e-Star system I know that has DAC built in is Orpheous and MkII.  Otherwise, the DMP is just a Digital player, you can use it as line out if you would have wanted and into other E-Stats systems that normally has only a phones and amp



Thanks for replying. 

I was also just looking at the Sonoma M1 by Warwick Acoustics and the Stax SRM D-50 unit. 

Has anyone heard either of these and the Sony DMP-Z1?


----------



## gsiu33

Gamerlingual said:


> I did a very comprehensive comparison of the DMP-Z1 vs the WM1Z with the TA and the answer is no. Far from it. You’re much better off listening to the TA in your space and the convenience of the pocket 1Z can be taken anywhere. It’s barely a difference if any at all. I tested the DMP-Z1 for at least 10 hours and it’s not worth it. Save yourself the money and go for the 1Z and TA. You’ll have lots of money left over for high res music. The DMP-Z1 is awesome, but $8k awesome? Nah. Else find a used one for $5k or less and yes, I can recommend it. Keep in mind the maintenance costs if the batteries ever need to get replaced and all the other expensive components inside the DMP-Z1. Gotta think long term for both. Whatever you decide, best wishes. Being here in Japan, the shops in Tokyo offer so many chances to sample players, I consider myself lucky.


 I listened WM1Z > 4,000 hours (even hundreds of hours from those latest customized fw) and DMP-Z1 > 2,000 hours. I still prefer to enjoy DMP-Z1 at home and it worth every penny spent.


----------



## kwilkins

For travel I have the Woo Audio WA8 and also the WM1Z, headphones are Focal Utopia and Stella plus Sony IER-Z1R.

Has anyone compared the WA8 to the Z1 and what are your impressions?  Since I have the WM1Z is the sound quality improvement of the Z1 enough of an upgrade?  We travel in a motorhome so the size/weight difference between the WA8 and the Z1 is not an issue.


----------



## MrWalkman

kwilkins said:


> Since I have the WM1Z is the sound quality improvement of the Z1 enough of an upgrade? We travel in a motorhome so the size/weight difference between the WA8 and the Z1 is not an issue.



Just a note, that you could improve upon the 1Z sound quality with custom firmware (change which is reversible): https://www.mrwalkman.ml/p/sony-wm1a-wm1z-custom-firmware.html

The change is not a subtle one, so I really recommend it!


----------



## kwilkins

MrWalkman said:


> Just a note, that you could improve upon the 1Z sound quality with custom firmware (change which is reversible): https://www.mrwalkman.ml/p/sony-wm1a-wm1z-custom-firmware.html
> 
> The change is not a subtle one, so I really recommend it!



Thanks, I'll check this out.


----------



## Rob49

My desire to own the DMP-Z1 has diminished thanks to the genius, that is @MrWalkman !

Project Z firmware to my ZX300.....audio life changing !

In ALL the years i've listened to music, THIS is what i've been searching for. Listening, absolutely transformed now. EVERYTHING IN THE MUSIC, IS ELEVATED. I can't hear a hint of harshness, not even in the highest of highs & the lows are so deep, tight & controlled. Not booming or bloated. Mids are crystal clear, SO LIVE sounding & i can actually hear the words that are being sung. ( Even with my 57 year old  ears ! ) I'm hearing details in music that i've listened to for nearly 50 years & so on......

I've FINALLY got the sound i want & dreamed of hearing & if this is what the DMP-Z1 / WM1Z sound like, then i've financially saved money & now can get that sound of my less expensive ZX300. It's now going to get so much usage now, when i tended to listen to other hi-res equipment, more.

Has any DMP-Z1 owner updated the firmware on their Walkman's & compared ? Just curious...?

I'm in audio heaven right now....SO HAPPY !!!


----------



## Damz87

Rob49 said:


> My desire to own the DMP-Z1 has diminished thanks to the genius, that is @MrWalkman !
> 
> Project Z firmware to my ZX300.....audio life changing !
> 
> ...



Nice! @MrWalkman ‘s firmware is indeed fantastic  I haven’t tried Project Z yet. I am using DMP-WM1 FE+ and it sounds very good. Looking forward to trying Project Z soon


----------



## sanguineburrito (Feb 6, 2021)

@MrWalkman, thanks for your sharing! I am very impressed with Project Z, and it has given new life to my wm1a. Excellent combo with ier z1r. DMP is more lush, layered with depth, and better bass. It sounds a bit more organic and real. But the margin is definitely smaller now with project z. Sound signature is similar. My gf did a blind test using ier z1r(she’s not into audio). I played a straight forward recording with female vocal and acoustic guitar. She was able to correctly point out which is which, but the conclusion was not immediate. The difference is more obvious with more complex recording or headphone usage. After project z installation, I have to max out my 1a volume to reach “adequate” listening level with my Diana phi.

Conclusion: WM1a with iem for no compromise convenience. DMP with headphone for transportable no compromise experience.


----------



## cosplayerkyo

While looking over the SA-Z1 speakers online (still super curious to try these), I noticed they recommend you plug in the DMP via USB C to USB B.

This had me curious so I tried plugging the DMP into the Kef LS50w via USB.  Was pretty surprised this actually worked.  I always assumed the USB only.


----------



## eastshine (Feb 11, 2021)

Thank you for Whitigir,  I was able to get a lot of information, so I was able to finish this modifying successfully.This is a picture before and after the modifying.













First of all, I upgrade the internal wiring of my dmp-z1. First i Upgraded internal wires for both 4.4mm / 3.5mm output plugs
sony kimber cable -> crystal cable bridge diamond 4braids







second,  the attenuator section wiring
Original wires -> soliton copper tsc wire( True Single Crystal wire) ,







third, the connection between the DC adapter plug and charging board original wires -> crystal cable bridge diamond,







and the connection from the charging board to both large and small batteries: original wires -> crystal cable piccolo diamond


----------



## Whitigir

eastshine said:


> Thank you for Whitigir,  I was able to get a lot of information, so I was able to finish this modifying successfully.This is a picture before and after the modifying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent works! Congratulations on a job well done.  The DMP Z1 takes a lot of works and guts to get here


----------



## eastshine

Whitigir said:


> Excellent works! Congratulations on a job well done.  The DMP Z1 takes a lot of works and guts to get here


The staging got larger as well as the low-ends gaining improvement despite the upgrade wires being made of silver-gold. It sounds especially gorgeous on female vocals

Now I want to buy 300w of hdplex as my next goal, is there any way to purchase it without customs and VAT? And is there any other way to buy it cheaply?


----------



## Whitigir

eastshine said:


> The staging got larger as well as the low-ends gaining improvement despite the upgrade wires being made of silver-gold. It sounds especially gorgeous on female vocals
> 
> Now I want to buy 300w of hdplex as my next goal, is there any way to purchase it without customs and VAT? And is there any other way to buy it cheaply?


I am not too sure, I think their main assembly is in HK, you may want to email them and ask ?

Yes, those hard works get paid off for sure


----------



## eastshine (Feb 11, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> I am not too sure, I think their main assembly is in HK, you may want to email them and ask ?
> 
> Yes, those hard works get paid off for sure


Yes, but I'm modified to the new dmp-z1, so I'll listen again and listen to the final review after 200 hours, when the capacitor is aging. Haha

And If you want me to contact you via email, you mean an email to Hdplex headquarters?


----------



## Whitigir

eastshine said:


> 예,하지만 새로운 dmp-z1로 수정되었으므로 커패시터가 노화되는 200 시간 후에 다시 듣고 최종 리뷰를 듣겠습니다. ㅋ
> And If you want me to contact you via email, you mean an email to Hdplex headquarters?


Yes sir!


----------



## eastshine

Whitigir said:


> I am not too sure, I think their main assembly is in HK, you may want to email them and ask ?
> 
> Yes, those hard works get paid off for sure


 
Which address should I send the email to?


----------



## Whitigir

eastshine said:


> Which address should I send the email to?


email:


----------



## eastshine

Whitigir said:


> email:


Thank you I'll try to contact hdplex.


----------



## kwilkins (Feb 14, 2021)

Hi All, I just received my Z1 and have only listed for a few minutes and it is amazing.

I'm having a problem that when I import my music from a Mac the Artist information is missing on the Z1.  The music files I purchased from HDtracks show the artists and artwork but all of my CD's I have ripped are showing as a long list of songs as "Unknown" for the artist.  The songs are there and they will play but obviously having thousands of songs not attached to the Artist isn't going to work.

When the Z1 is attached to the Mac and I look in the Z1 music folder on the Mac they appear properly under the Artist.  I have attached two photos showing what I'm seeing on the Z1 music folder on the Mac and then how those same songs appear on the Z1.

Can anyone help with this or point me in the right direction to find a solution?

Thanks,


----------



## cosplayerkyo

kwilkins said:


> Hi All, I just received my Z1 and have only listed for a few minutes and it is amazing.
> 
> I'm having a problem that when I import my music from a Mac the Artist information is missing on the Z1.  The music files I purchased from HDtracks show the artists and artwork but all of my CD's I have ripped are showing as a long list of songs as "Unknown" for the artist.  The songs are there and they will play but obviously having thousands of songs not attached to the Artist isn't going to work.
> 
> ...



I've always used MP3tag on windows to tag everything.  Looks like there's a mac version coming out this week:
https://mp3tag.app/


----------



## gerelmx1986

kwilkins said:


> Hi All, I just received my Z1 and have only listed for a few minutes and it is amazing.
> 
> I'm having a problem that when I import my music from a Mac the Artist information is missing on the Z1.  The music files I purchased from HDtracks show the artists and artwork but all of my CD's I have ripped are showing as a long list of songs as "Unknown" for the artist.  The songs are there and they will play but obviously having thousands of songs not attached to the Artist isn't going to work.
> 
> ...


Is related to PCM files (aka WAV), wav was not keant to hace metadata (tags).

you have two options, either fonvert the filee to lissless compression suvh as flac or alac or use Aiff if you want to atill retain raw pcm plus tag info


----------



## kwilkins

cosplayerkyo said:


> I've always used MP3tag on windows to tag everything. Looks like there's a mac version coming out this week:
> https://mp3tag.app/



Thanks, I will check this out.  

My CD's were ripped with a Naim Unity Core to a QNAP.  That was setup to work with a Naim system I had and I wonder if the ripping parameters were set in some way that worked well with Naim but doesn't with the DMP-Z1.  I could always see all the artist and cover art using the Naim app.


----------



## JTTT

gerelmx1986 said:


> Is related to PCM files (aka WAV), wav was not keant to hace metadata (tags).
> 
> you have two options, either fonvert the filee to lissless compression suvh as flac or alac or use Aiff if you want to atill retain raw pcm plus tag info



You can convert the wav into flac with no compression. I suppose this brings the flac closer to wav if not the same.


----------



## MrWalkman

JTTT said:


> You can convert the wav into flac with no compression. I suppose this brings the flac closer to wav if not the same.



I did an experiment converting a WAV stream to FLAC and then back to WAV, and the resulting WAV had the same MD5 as the original WAV, so it's 100% the same..

Still, some people would argue with you that something is still getting lost somehow, even if same MD5 means that absolutely nothing is lost.


----------



## gsiu33

AngloApulian said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was just wondering if those of you that either own or have had considerable listening time with the Sony DMP-Z1 could please tell me how the DMP-Z1 compares in terms of sound quality to a good electrostatic headphone system?
> 
> ...


I listen to DMP-Z1 with MDR-Z1R > 2,000 hours and I am very enjoy with this combo. IMO, the sound signature of DMP-Z1 + MDR-Z1R is very wide soundstage, quiet background, warm vocal but still have the dynamic for acoustic and classical music. I don’t own any electrostatic headphone system, I only try the Stax system (the price is close to DMP-Z1 + MDR-Z1R) in Osaka in Dec-2019 around one hour. It is very good, very good soundstage, very musical. One of the issue is that is it not transportable. You also to add a music source, plus cables.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 17, 2021)

JTTT said:


> You can convert the wav into flac with no compression. I suppose this brings the flac closer to wav if not the same.




For WAV files to display the album art, you will have to put it in a sub folder per albums that contains the tracks specifically for that album, then have a JPG in that folder with the same name of the album folder.  I sometimes use my cellphones and snap pictures for this purpose, sometimes I Google the album art and put in there


----------



## kwilkins

MrWalkman said:


> I did an experiment converting a WAV stream to FLAC and then back to WAV, and the resulting WAV had the same MD5 as the original WAV, so it's 100% the same..
> 
> Still, some people would argue with you that something is still getting lost somehow, even if same MD5 means that absolutely nothing is lost.



Hi MrWalkman.  Can you tell me what program I might use on a Mac to convert my WAV files to FLAC?  I've copied all my music files from the Naim Uniti Core to an external drive so I can work with them.  Everything is organized by Artist and then album, each album has the cover image but none of the images copied over to the the Z1.  I'm thinking to try and covert all my my WAV files to FLAC and see if they come over to the Z1 organized by artist and album and with the cover art.

Strangely, last night as a test I copied some music folders over to an sd card in the Z1 and they retained the artist and album, but no cover art.  Odd that internal storage lost all artist and album info but the sd card didn't.


----------



## MrWalkman

kwilkins said:


> Hi MrWalkman.  Can you tell me what program I might use on a Mac to convert my WAV files to FLAC?  I've copied all my music files from the Naim Uniti Core to an external drive so I can work with them.  Everything is organized by Artist and then album, each album has the cover image but none of the images copied over to the the Z1.  I'm thinking to try and covert all my my WAV files to FLAC and see if they come over to the Z1 organized by artist and album and with the cover art.
> 
> Strangely, last night as a test I copied some music folders over to an sd card in the Z1 and they retained the artist and album, but no cover art.  Odd that internal storage lost all artist and album info but the sd card didn't.



To be honest I have no idea about such a program for a Mac.

I am a Windows user, and I'm using EZ CD Audio Converter, which is a one in all program for ripping CDs, converting files from one format to another, edit tags/artwork, or even write an Audio/MP3 CD, etc.

As for the covers, the Walkman OS will only display certain types of JPG/PNG images as cover arts. For a fix, you can try this:


MrWalkman said:


> Hello,
> 
> The stock DMP-Z1 firmware has received a fix, that will allow it show all album cover images.
> 
> ...


----------



## gerelmx1986

kwilkins said:


> Hi MrWalkman.  Can you tell me what program I might use on a Mac to convert my WAV files to FLAC?  I've copied all my music files from the Naim Uniti Core to an external drive so I can work with them.  Everything is organized by Artist and then album, each album has the cover image but none of the images copied over to the the Z1.  I'm thinking to try and covert all my my WAV files to FLAC and see if they come over to the Z1 organized by artist and album and with the cover art.
> 
> Strangely, last night as a test I copied some music folders over to an sd card in the Z1 and they retained the artist and album, but no cover art.  Odd that internal storage lost all artist and album info but the sd card didn't.


XLD  lossless decoder for mac


----------



## kwilkins

MrWalkman said:


> To be honest I have no idea about such a program for a Mac.
> 
> I am a Windows user, and I'm using EZ CD Audio Converter, which is a one in all program for ripping CDs, converting files from one format to another, edit tags/artwork, or even write an Audio/MP3 CD, etc.
> 
> As for the covers, the Walkman OS will only display certain types of JPG/PNG images as cover arts. For a fix, you can try this:


Thanks I will check it out.


----------



## kwilkins

gerelmx1986 said:


> XLD  lossless decoder for mac


Thank you, I'll download tonight and give it a go.


----------



## kwilkins

I'm hoping someone can help advise me on making a purchase.  I have not found a way to convert my WAV files FLAC and maintain the artist and album structure or the album cover art for the Z1.  I have tried XLD lossless and the new Mac version of mp3tag.  I was able to covert to FLAC with XLD but lost the artist and album structure.  In doing some research it appears the Naim Uniti Core I used to rip all my CD's uses a proprietary method to Naim that makes converting a problem.  Anyone interested in that could read this https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic.php?oid=78019131038542236&coid=159503632588890

What CD ripper hardware would you recommend I purchase and use to rip my CD collection that will maintain the artist, album, and cover art for the Z1.  I realize it will take some time to re-rip everything but I'm selling my Naim Uniti Core and need something to replace it with for future CD's.  I suppose it's possible to find some combination of software that would help me with all of this but I'm not super literate with new software but I am able to shove CD's into a new ripper.  

Thanks for any suggestions you have.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Ither alternative. Is dbpowerAmp for mac, i have it for windows. Comes with a Cd ripper and the codec libraries are easy to install


----------



## kwilkins

I have slight hearing loss in my left ear and am able to adjust the left right balance on the WM1Z but don't see a way to do it on the DMP-Z1.  I've attached a photo showing the setting on the WM1Z in the headphones settings.  Does anyone know if there is a way to adjust left right balance on the Z1?


----------



## kwilkins

gerelmx1986 said:


> Ither alternative. Is dbpowerAmp for mac, i have it for windows. Comes with a Cd ripper and the codec libraries are easy to install



Thanks to all who have offered suggestions for getting my Naim ripped music files converted for the Z1.  It turns out a combination of dbpowerAmp to convert WAV to FLAC and SongKong to retrieve metadata and artwork enabled me to overcome the Naim proprietary WAV file structure.


----------



## gsiu33 (Feb 22, 2021)

@Whitigir, have you hear about “Bybee Quantum Purifiers”? I am browsing LPS for DMP-Z1, a company saying that include the Purifiers will reduce the background significantly.

Thanks


----------



## Whitigir

gsiu33 said:


> @Whitigir, have you hear about “Bybee Quantum Purifiers”? I am browsing LPS for DMP-Z1, a company saying that include the Purifiers will reduce the background significantly.
> 
> Thanks


I have not, but DMP-Z1 background is a black hole level already ?


----------



## gsiu33

purk said:


> I have one just like this and it worths every penny.  15% jump in performance for your DMP.  It just sound more dynamics and slam a little harder to my ears.  Soundstage opens up even more as well.


I assumed the performance improvement is compared to AC power mode. How is the improvement as compare to Battery mode?


----------



## purk

gsiu33 said:


> I assumed the performance improvement is compared to AC power mode. How is the improvement as compare to Battery mode?


This is compared to the battery mode.


----------



## MrWalkman

DMP-Z1 service manual, for those interested.


----------



## Gamerlingual

MrWalkman said:


> DMP-Z1 service manual, for those interested.


Would Rock Box be apply to change the language settings as well?


----------



## MrWalkman

Gamerlingual said:


> Would Rock Box be apply to change the language settings as well?



Yes, the destination tool works on the Z1 as well.


----------



## eastshine

MrWalkman said:


> , for those interested.


Thank you so much for sharing this valuable information. Thanks to this data, I think it will be a more fun Modifying.


----------



## bmichels (Mar 12, 2021)

Fantasy... fantasy...:  This night I dreamed of an upgraded  DMP Z2 with (1) very big OLED reclining screen Or... (2) a Bluetooth iPAD app like the Aurender Conductor, (2) wifi support for streaming (wifi disconectable for "interference free" local playback), and (4) a real fixed-output Line out to use it as my home server.   Santa claus... ?


----------



## gerelmx1986

bmichels said:


> Fantasy... fantasy...:  This night I dreamed of an upgraded  DMP Z2 with (1) very big OLED reclining screen Or... (2) a Bluetooth iPAD app like the Aurender Conductor, (2) wifi support for streaming (wifi disconectable for "interference free" local playback), and (4) a real fixed-output Line out to use it as my home server.   Santa claus... ?


You are not the only ine dreaming so. I had a dream of a DMp-Z1R that was the wize of DX220max or catin C9 and costed only 2999€ and had

big oled screen
The new S-MASTER wony DAC used on SA-z1
Up to 10W of power
4x micro sd sloys
Usb c pig tail connectors for analogue out (ECA, 3.5 XLR 4.4 (
Usb C pig tails for eigital input and output for optical, SPDIF, coax and usb
In fact ont facing had a LED sample rate marble like chord does
Had a D-pad and touch screen
Had a tube amp emulator instead or vinyl processor and a PEQ and crossfeed for stereo widening
DSD remaster up to DSD1024
DSEE UX for pcm to 768kHz
A battery vat which dould use AA. C, 9V wither normal  or NiMH lithium or lirhium ion batteries luke cayin c9
Dual battery tray for Amp and DAC isolated circuits


----------



## riverground

gerelmx1986 said:


> You are not the only ine dreaming so. I had a dream of a DMp-Z1R that was the wize of DX220max or catin C9 and costed only 2999€ and had
> 
> big oled screen
> The new S-MASTER wony DAC used on SA-z1
> ...


10W of power 😳😳😳


----------



## gerelmx1986

riverground said:


> 10W of power 😳😳😳


I would accept at least 6w. Yeah i hate dreams because you know upon waking up theyre not real


----------



## riverground

gerelmx1986 said:


> I would accept at least 6w. Yeah i hate dreams because you know upon waking up theyre not real


Heck, my dream right now is to just even own one lol

Ever since I've demoed it... I couldn't forget about it.

Now to try the next best thing... the TAZ...


----------



## Damz87

riverground said:


> Heck, my dream right now is to just even own one lol
> 
> Ever since I've demoed it... I couldn't forget about it.
> 
> Now to try the next best thing... the TAZ...


The TA is excellent man, def worth trying. And only a quarter of the price of DMP


----------



## LegionWolf (Nov 25, 2021)

*SOLD*

So I figured I'd post here first - as hard as it is.

Have come on some finical hard times and currently can't think of a way around having to sell my dmp-z1

But it definitely has to go to good home  which is why hoping to find someone here who's been wanting one and will be able to get good deal on one.

I will get more facts to interested parties- please pm me, but only serious buyers- it doesn't even have the break in time listened to on it (by long shot- been too busy 😢) and is in brand new condition. Have full van nuys over shoulder carrying case and protective sleeve.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I have as planning to test the DMP here in berlin. Postpone for monday due the fact ro get access to the sony shop i must have been Covid-19 tested negative no less than 24H


----------



## Mindstorms

tell us how it compares to your 1A


----------



## Vitaly2017

LegionWolf said:


> So I figured I'd post here first - as hard as it is.
> 
> Have come on some finical hard times and currently can't think of a way around having to sell my dmp-z1
> 
> ...



Ouch so sorry to hear that, must be a very difficult decision to make 😕😱😢
Are you in america?


----------



## Mindstorms

MrWalkman said:


> Yes, the destination tool works on the Z1 as well.


does Z1 has regions?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Well tried it and WOOOOOWWW.

wow aimply is ow ried with my IER-M7 quad BA iem and the sound stage wow wow wpw . The bass and all frequencies better, aussenly the bass became like a DD hard hitting bass.
Some vivaldi albums that i tought they sisnt have so much stage... aussenly became spacious . The separation esp pn the Haydn symphonies wow.

then tried  ith an store demo IER-Z1R (had a 3.5 SE cable and sounded off as damaged) could rhink how it wounds with mine wow


----------



## Rob49

How does it compare to @MrWalkman ’s firmware upgrades for DAP’s ?


gerelmx1986 said:


> Well tried it and WOOOOOWWW.
> 
> wow aimply is ow ried with my IER-M7 quad BA iem and the sound stage wow wow wpw . The bass and all frequencies better, aussenly the bass became like a DD hard hitting bass.
> Some vivaldi albums that i tought they sisnt have so much stage... aussenly became spacious . The separation esp pn the Haydn symphonies wow.
> ...



How does it compare to @MrWalkman ’s firmware upgrades for DAP’s ?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> How does it compare to @MrWalkman ’s firmware upgrades for DAP’s ?
> 
> 
> How does it compare to @MrWalkman ’s firmware upgrades for DAP’s ?


In some tracks it sounsed similar to my wm1a plus mrwalkman DMP -1 FEv2 bur overall the esge goes to the smp esp in separations stage, bass texture inner resolution. In other tracks the realiam ia aooo unreal OMG the vivaldi cello conxwetoa on Naive wow


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> In some tracks it sounsed similar to my wm1a plus mrwalkman DMP -1 FEv2 bur overall the esge goes to the smp esp in separations stage, bass texture inner resolution. In other tracks the realiam ia aooo unreal OMG the vivaldi cello conxwetoa on Naive wow



Thanks for your thoughts. Do you think you will buy one, if possible ??


----------



## Vitaly2017

Mindstorms said:


> does Z1 has regions?



No its all the same world wide.

Dmp-z1 is limited in production I was told there aren't that many in the wild maybe 100 to 200 units max


----------



## Rob49

Vitaly2017 said:


> No its all the same world wide.
> 
> Dmp-z1 is limited in production I was told there aren't that many in the wild maybe 100 to 200 units max



Nigh impossible to buy in the U.K. & I suspect many places in the world ?


----------



## Vitaly2017

Rob49 said:


> Nigh impossible to buy in the U.K. & I suspect many places in the world ?



The only way to buy it is order one via a dealer and then you have a fartabulous waiting time of 3 weeks! Cause it's being shipped in a container from Japan and you have to pay upfront to your store.

And no where to audition one! This thing is quiet hard to find for audition if not impossible.

I heard it at last canjam.


----------



## Mindstorms

Vitaly2017 said:


> No its all the same world wide.
> 
> Dmp-z1 is limited in production I was told there aren't that many in the wild maybe 100 to 200 units max


i meant firmware regions


----------



## Vitaly2017

Mindstorms said:


> i meant firmware regions



Answer is same every where


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for your thoughts. Do you think you will buy one, if possible ??


If it was affordable i would buy one. Dont reqlly think that 9000€ would ve the best price for it, maybe 4500?

i did like it much, never tought that the quad BA IER-M7 would scale that well and i mean by that well, ive never heard hard hitting bass from a full BA IEM (M7 bass is like DD already from my wm1A) and stage from Mz always tought  it was smaller due to lack  of extra supertweeter of M9. i wasnt expecting much from my M7 so i requested IER-Z1R demo (left mine at home 400km away). Unfortunately the demo Z1R had been dropped quite a few times and it was not sounding right, aside, it had the SE cable instead of balanced (i requested he beought a 4.4 cable but he was so dumb that i gave up).
Doe this reason i tewted the Z1R on SE. Sony dis it agqin on mqking woftwqre tricks to mqke bqlanced sound better, nonetheless i could imagine ho my z1R could scqle with the DMap.

not satisfied with the damaged store demo z1R, switching bach to my am7 balqnced... the soundstage i. Disnt have much hopes of improving... Boom wow wow wow.

because corona (COVID19) they had my time chronometrized... you know what is about “you have 60 minute time” 🤬🤬🤬🤬


----------



## gerelmx1986

I asked if they had the MDR-Z1R for demo (left mine akwo qt home) they role me they had renovated the shop and they didn’t had it there


----------



## Gamerlingual

I’m having to realize that the TA and 1Z are enough for me. They provide enough and the DMP is dang good. But going back to my current equipment, they do a lot better of a job than some people give it credit for.


----------



## Damz87

gerelmx1986 said:


> If it was affordable i would buy one. Dont reqlly think that 9000€ would ve the best price for it, maybe 4500?
> 
> i did like it much, never tought that the quad BA IER-M7 would scale that well and i mean by that well, ive never heard hard hitting bass from a full BA IEM (M7 bass is like DD already from my wm1A) and stage from Mz always tought  it was smaller due to lack  of extra supertweeter of M9. i wasnt expecting much from my M7 so i requested IER-Z1R demo (left mine at home 400km away). Unfortunately the demo Z1R had been dropped quite a few times and it was not sounding right, aside, it had the SE cable instead of balanced (i requested he beought a 4.4 cable but he was so dumb that i gave up).
> Doe this reason i tewted the Z1R on SE. Sony dis it agqin on mqking woftwqre tricks to mqke bqlanced sound better, nonetheless i could imagine ho my z1R could scqle with the DMap.
> ...


It’s incredible how well some IEM’s scale when driven by DMP-Z1. Even ultra budget IEM’s like Sony MH755 and BLON BL-03 sound phenomenal from it.


----------



## gerelmx1986

when a Headphone/IEM is engineered well, like my M7 it would scale well with an excellent source ? And when the HP/IEM is flawed like the fiio FA7 (bassy signature and veiled) it wont scale or improve with a good source f.e. DMP-Z1


----------



## gerelmx1986

gerelmx1986 said:


> when a Headphone/IEM is engineered well, like my M7 it would scale well with an excellent source ? And when the HP/IEM is flawed like the fiio FA7 (bassy signature and veiled) it wont scale or improve with a good source f.e. DMP-Z1


Bump


----------



## Damz87

gerelmx1986 said:


> Bump


Are you asking if your M7 will scale with a DMP-Z1? If so, yes, it should. I haven’t heard an M7 but my M9 certainly does scale up with DMP-Z1. Main improvements I hear (compared to my WM1Z) is a greater sense of soundstage space and instrument separation. Each note sounds like it’s rendered in its own space inside the image without any sort of congestion or muddiness. There is a pitch black background between each note, compared to WM1Z which exhibits a bit more noise and fuzziness. Bass hits harder and fuller with greater texture however it does sound a little less forward than WM1Z. I find M9 bass can sound a little uncontrolled and slow with WM1Z by comparison. Vocals sound lifelike with a more natural timbre. Treble has excellent clarity and sparkle, and generally sounds more refined compared to WM1Z.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Damz87 said:


> Are you asking if your M7 will scale with a DMP-Z1? If so, yes, it should. I haven’t heard an M7 but my M9 certainly does scale up with DMP-Z1. Main improvements I hear (compared to my WM1Z) is a greater sense of soundstage space and instrument separation. Each note sounds like it’s rendered in its own space inside the image without any sort of congestion or muddiness. There is a pitch black background between each note, compared to WM1Z which exhibits a bit more noise and fuzziness. Bass hits harder and fuller with greater texture however it does sound a little less forward than WM1Z. I find M9 bass can sound a little uncontrolled and slow with WM1Z by comparison. Vocals sound lifelike with a more natural timbre. Treble has excellent clarity and sparkle, and generally sounds more refined compared to WM1Z.


I noticed same as you with m7 in DMP vs 1A

my question was more of if DMP can improve or rather fix a flawed HP/IEM like the fiio FA7 which ti me sounded too bassy and veiled lacking detaila sounding extremely veiled (hence i returned it and gor sony M7 instead)


----------



## gerelmx1986

I weote to Johnny from Accessory Jack inquiring how much of a deal on a DMP.

he replied back 
Thank you very much for your inquiry.

DMp-Z1will be discontinue very soon. Since it is too big and too heavy, the shipping fee is ultra expensive. So we took it out from our product offering. Regards, Johnny


----------



## Sp12er3

is he talking about stopping offering it in their shop specifically? not sure if the DMP will be discontinued any time soon, especially in Japan. as that's really where the enthusiast crazy enough to use the DMP and bring it around everywhere exist.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Sp12er3 said:


> is he talking about stopping offering it in their shop specifically? not sure if the DMP will be discontinued any time soon, especially in Japan. as that's really where the enthusiast crazy enough to use the DMP and bring it around everywhere exist.


Thats is what i dont
Know. If specific to his shop or permanently all around the world


----------



## Gamerlingual

gerelmx1986 said:


> Thats is what i dont
> Know. If specific to his shop or permanently all around the world


It’s not on their discontinued list in their website in Japanese. So until it is, it is NOT discontinued


----------



## LegionWolf

Vitaly2017 said:


> Ouch so sorry to hear that, must be a very difficult decision to make 😕😱😢
> Are you in america?


Yes - in California


----------



## Vitaly2017

LegionWolf said:


> Yes - in California



Awwii a bit far away, would love to pass by to have a listen 😛


----------



## gerelmx1986

Some say the DSD remastering of the TA-Z1ES is not a night and day difference.

the DSD-RE on the DMP did a difference with 16-bit 44.1kHz FLAC (Haydn the complete symphonies/Decca/Antal Dorati & Philharmonia Hungarica. Vivaldi concerti e Cantate da Camera I-III/Naive/L’Astree consort). With 24-bit flac above 44.1KHz i noted a refinement in the sound (vivaldi concerti per Fagotto Iii &. IV/Naive/Sergio azzolini —— Vivaldi concerti per arch II /Naive/Il Pomo d’Oro — vivaldi conxerti pe violinist VIII/Naive/Concert de la Loge).

with resampled DSD there was not a difference to my ears. Original files are DSD 2.8224MHz album in particular is Charpentier: a la Chapelle royal di Versailles/Alia Vox/Capella real de Catalunya - Jordi Savall)  converted to FLAC 24-bit 88.2kHz for compatibility issues with NW-A25 DAP


----------



## gerelmx1986

@Whitigir  dbPowerAmp release 17.3 suite now converts to DSD all the way to 512. Have not tewted it how good it is but the older DSD  decoder only resampled DSD to PCM very transparent


----------



## gerelmx1986

Today i browsed sony japan site. I managed to get into walkman catwgory after trying by trial and error.

clicking wverywhere there’s no DMP to be seen


----------



## Gamerlingual

It’s not a walkman. They’ve said so many times


----------



## nanaholic

It's under the Hi-Res Flagship section
https://www.sony.jp/high-resolution/flagship/


----------



## Bingo777 (May 29, 2021)

Does anybody know if you buy Z1 in EU is to volume capped ? If yes, is there firmware to remove volume cap ? Sony Store on amazon.de started to sell Z1s


----------



## AngloApulian

Bingo777 said:


> Does anybody know if you buy Z1 in EU is to volume capped ? If yes, is there firmware to remove volume cap ? Sony Store on amazon.de started to sell Z1s


I believe others have answered already in this thread that the EU version isn’t capped as it’s not really classed as a portable player like a DAP.
Good luck in finding one to buy in the EU. I’ve been looking for a while and it seems to be sold out all over Europe.


----------



## Wikinaut

Any suggestions where I could find a second power supply? One of the benefits of the DMP is that it's easy-ish to move around, but then I find myself also moving the power supply if it stays in one place for an extended period of time. I'd rather just have two power supplies and plug it in when I'm done driving the battery to the ground.


----------



## Wikinaut

Follow-on question: as usual, Sony's software is utter garbage. What do you use for tagging and transferring music to your DMP-Z1?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Wikinaut said:


> Follow-on question: as usual, Sony's software is utter garbage. What do you use for tagging and transferring music to your DMP-Z1?


I have mediaGo from sony (discontinued) to manage music library.

for transfers i use drag and drip qith windows explorer.

another option would be MusicBee


----------



## gerelmx1986

Hi does some one know if the AAdvqntage eShopping has a DMap or where i can but a DMP with AA miles? And how many miles would one need. I have some miles i want toget ridif


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Wikinaut said:


> Any suggestions where I could find a second power supply? One of the benefits of the DMP is that it's easy-ish to move around, but then I find myself also moving the power supply if it stays in one place for an extended period of time. I'd rather just have two power supplies and plug it in when I'm done driving the battery to the ground.


I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread that this adaptor worked:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C72F62...olid=2VQGMOFFE5O2N&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

I found and purchased a spare power adaptor from yahoo japan auctions.  The part number is:  ACDP-045L01



Wikinaut said:


> Follow-on question: as usual, Sony's software is utter garbage. What do you use for tagging and transferring music to your DMP-Z1?


On Windows, I'm very fond of using mp3tag.  Makes updating tags and photos a million times easier.


----------



## bigbeans

Posted my unit for sale, I hope the next owner can appreciate it!


----------



## Wikinaut

cosplayerkyo said:


> I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread that this adaptor worked:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C72F62...olid=2VQGMOFFE5O2N&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
> 
> I found and purchased a spare power adaptor from yahoo japan auctions.  The part number is:  ACDP-045L01
> ...



Voltage looks spot on. I'll order it and then investigate more closely. It's Amazon, so returns are trivial. Thanks!


----------



## gerelmx1986

cosplayerkyo said:


> I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread that this adaptor worked:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C72F62...olid=2VQGMOFFE5O2N&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
> 
> I found and purchased a spare power adaptor from yahoo japan auctions.  The part number is:  ACDP-045L01
> ...


I think if you have an old sony VAIO laptop their power Adapters  use the same plug and same voltage like the DMP


----------



## gerelmx1986

bigbeans said:


> Posted my unit for sale, I hope the next owner can appreciate it!


Is there one that costs 6800 dollar? Here on classifieds with a bundled Plex LPSU?


----------



## riverground

gerelmx1986 said:


> Is there one that costs 6800 dollar? Here on classifieds with a bundled Plex LPSU?


Yup, that’s the one @bigbeans is selling.
If only I lived in CONUS and had the money, I’d definitely go for it. But, alas, I always stay broke. 😭


----------



## gerelmx1986

riverground said:


> Yup, that’s the one @bigbeans is selling.
> If only I lived in CONUS and had the money, I’d definitely go for it. But, alas, I always stay broke. 😭


And i lice in Europe  … and also broke. Amazpn  germany is selling DMP for 6700€ buy the price from @bigbeans is 1100€ cheaper thqm amazon de


----------



## Gamerlingual

gerelmx1986 said:


> And i lice in Europe  … and also broke. Amazpn  germany is selling DMP for 6700€ buy the price from @bigbeans is 1100€ cheaper thqm amazon de


I have the money and don’t want to make the jump. Just doesn’t feel right after finally using logic despite still wanting it. For far less.


----------



## bigbeans (Jun 7, 2021)

To clarify, the LPSU adds an extra 350 to the price (retail is 580). But to those attentive folks on this thread, I can bundle everything for $7007. Thread exclusive  

update: HDPLEX Linear Power Supply has been sold


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> And i lice in Europe  … and also broke. Amazpn  germany is selling DMP for 6700€ buy the price from @bigbeans is 1100€ cheaper thqm amazon de



You’re the second poster that as said it’s for sale, but it says out of stock ??


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> You’re the second poster that as said it’s for sale, but it says out of stock ??


Amazon DE says there is one in stock and more on the way


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Amazon DE says there is one in stock and more on the way


Strangely, it doesn’t say that when I looked ??


----------



## gsiu33

gerelmx1986 said:


> Today i browsed sony japan site. I managed to get into walkman catwgory after trying by trial and error.
> 
> clicking wverywhere there’s no DMP to be seen


It’s under the Hi-res product, but no longer to sell WM1A.


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Got a new setup for the DMP today.
Only had a few minutes to listen to it so far but wowowow the imaging is insane.


----------



## riverground

cosplayerkyo said:


> Got a new setup for the DMP today.
> Only had a few minutes to listen to it so far but wowowow the imaging is insane.


My dream near-field setup…
I really wanna hear the SA-Z1 someday


----------



## cosplayerkyo

riverground said:


> My dream near-field setup…
> I really wanna hear the SA-Z1 someday


I can say that these speakers have changed my perspective on imaging.  They are worth going out of your way to give a listen.  The way it can place a singer right in front of you is just unbelievable.


----------



## Gamerlingual

cosplayerkyo said:


> I can say that these speakers have changed my perspective on imaging.  They are worth going out of your way to give a listen.  The way it can place a singer right in front of you is just unbelievable.


Agreed. Happy that your job is allows you to afford these luxuries so easily. Keep it up. I want to see what will be next in your collection


----------



## purk

I am still very much in love with my modified DMP....just saying!


----------



## riverground

cosplayerkyo said:


> I can say that these speakers have changed my perspective on imaging.  They are worth going out of your way to give a listen.  The way it can place a singer right in front of you is just unbelievable.


Definitely man!

Just wishing there was somewhere in Toronto to try these out.


----------



## Wikinaut

Curious what others use to get HiRes content. These are the ones I go to:

https://www.qobuz.com/ - Probably my favorite currently because it also integrates with Roon. Good selection of content and, most importantly, they clearly show the frequency and bit-depth for all their content. None of this MQA voodoo nonsense.
https://www.nativedsd.com/ - This is my go-to site for all DSD needs. Although, more recently, their content has shifted to DXD. I always get the original recording format. I'm not a fan of resampling it to DSD just for the fun of it.
https://www.hdtracks.com/ - When the other two sites fail me, this is my backup. I can't say much more, other than they have a good selection that doesn't fully overlap. So, it's a good option if you strike out on the first two.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Wikinaut said:


> Curious what others use to get HiRes content. These are the ones I go to:
> 
> https://www.qobuz.com/ - Probably my favorite currently because it also integrates with Roon. Good selection of content and, most importantly, they clearly show the frequency and bit-depth for all their content. None of this MQA voodoo nonsense.
> https://www.nativedsd.com/ - This is my go-to site for all DSD needs. Although, more recently, their content has shifted to DXD. I always get the original recording format. I'm not a fan of resampling it to DSD just for the fun of it.
> https://www.hdtracks.com/ - When the other two sites fail me, this is my backup. I can't say much more, other than they have a good selection that doesn't fully overlap. So, it's a good option if you strike out on the first two.


Presto classical and amazon (for physical SACD)


----------



## Vitaly2017

Wikinaut said:


> Curious what others use to get HiRes content. These are the ones I go to:
> 
> https://www.qobuz.com/ - Probably my favorite currently because it also integrates with Roon. Good selection of content and, most importantly, they clearly show the frequency and bit-depth for all their content. None of this MQA voodoo nonsense.
> https://www.nativedsd.com/ - This is my go-to site for all DSD needs. Although, more recently, their content has shifted to DXD. I always get the original recording format. I'm not a fan of resampling it to DSD just for the fun of it.
> https://www.hdtracks.com/ - When the other two sites fail me, this is my backup. I can't say much more, other than they have a good selection that doesn't fully overlap. So, it's a good option if you strike out on the first two.



Same for me, except Bandcamp instead of qobuz 😛


----------



## bmichels

Vitaly2017 said:


> Same for me, except Bandcamp instead of qobuz 😛


Bandcamp ??


----------



## cukis350

Been lurking around in this thread for a while now but never serious about purchasing the Z1 due to it's high price and being "big" but today i've officially pulled the trigger on Amazon and it should be in my possession tomorrow as a present for my birthday/father's day .


----------



## cosplayerkyo

cukis350 said:


> Been lurking around in this thread for a while now but never serious about purchasing the Z1 due to it's high price and being "big" but today i've officially pulled the trigger on Amazon and it should be in my possession tomorrow as a present for my birthday/father's day .


Congrats!!!!!  You will love it!


----------



## cukis350

Thank you guys. Anyone of you just purchased the DMP recently?  Any thought that it might be replaced soon since it has been out on the market for a few years already?  I’m kind of thinking something new will come out soon and regret or that the dmp will be discontinued and can’t be purchase anymore 😀?


----------



## Wikinaut

cukis350 said:


> Thank you guys. Anyone of you just purchased the DMP recently?  Any thought that it might be replaced soon since it has been out on the market for a few years already?  I’m kind of thinking something new will come out soon and regret or that the dmp will be discontinued and can’t be purchase anymore 😀?



I bought mine in March also via Amazon. Anticipating what the future may hold is a losers game, IMHO. All technology goes obsolete. So either you love or you don't. The various settings give you an opportunity to dial it in to your liking. But, if you don't love it, just return it to Amazon. It's too much money to have remorse.

Here's what I love about mine:

Self contained unit that can play without being connected to anything. (You will need to install Mr. Walkman's after-market firmware to see some DSD album art though)
Amazing sound quality with MDR-Z1R headphones.
Great companion for high-quality audio over USB when connected to Roon.
Ultimately, it depends on what matters to you. I love the fact that I can take it to any place in the house and listen to it while enjoying a fine pour of Cognac in my favorite chair.


----------



## gerelmx1986

cukis350 said:


> Thank you guys. Anyone of you just purchased the DMP recently?  Any thought that it might be replaced soon since it has been out on the market for a few years already?  I’m kind of thinking something new will come out soon and regret or that the dmp will be discontinued and can’t be purchase anymore 😀?


The only problem os the AKM factory fire that led to the DAC discontinuation


----------



## gsiu33

Wikinaut said:


> Follow-on question: as usual, Sony's software is utter garbage. What do you use for tagging and transferring music to your DMP-Z1?


Using USB-C adapter to copy files to the micro-sd card, it is very fast. I don’t remember the exact time, around 1.5 hours for 256GB.

For internal, just treat it as an portable hard disk, I just copy 256GB files to it last Sunday, take around 3 hours while watching Blu-ray movie.


----------



## mammal

cukis350 said:


> Been lurking around in this thread for a while now but never serious about purchasing the Z1 due to it's high price and being "big" but today i've officially pulled the trigger on Amazon and it should be in my possession tomorrow as a present for my birthday/father's day .


Woot woot, congratulations on your purchase. To put your worry that the unit is too big to rest, I carry my 16kg dCS Bartok around the house, as a portable dac/amp, haha.


----------



## Wikinaut

gsiu33 said:


> Using USB-C adapter to copy files to the micro-sd card, it is very fast. I don’t remember the exact time, around 1.5 hours for 256GB.
> 
> For internal, just treat it as an portable hard disk, I just copy 256GB files to it last Sunday, take around 3 hours while watching Blu-ray movie.



That's exactly what I ended up doing. The DMP has been able to handle everything I've thrown at it: DSD64 to DSD256 and up to FLAC384. The one exception is multi-channel audio, which the DMP cannot down-sample to 2 channels, unfortunately. Another caveat, the file system is limited to 4GB files. One of my tracks in a DSD256 class album exceeded that size and I was not able to copy it over.

Worthwhile noting, the folder structure doesn't seem to be important. So I was able to preserve what I have in my Roon collection, which allows me to easily run a sync files operation to copy over anything new I add to my collection.

Finally, for anyone reading this, Mr. Walkman's custom firmware (1.02) fixes the issue with DSD albums not properly displaying their art.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I have arroubd 9.8% of my library as Hi-res the rest 90.2% is 16/44

from these High-res albums i have mostly DSD64 qnd DLAC 24/88 or 96 one in 176.4 four in 192, two in 352.8, one DSD128 and lawtly one album as DSD256


----------



## cukis350

I might be out of line but I’m wondering what the average age and occupation of those that own the DMP?  For most of my time here on headfi, I thought this was more for young people i.e in the 30s-40s but then the prices of the gears are so high that most people in those age can’t afford to buy and upgrade too often. I for once a 42 years of age engineer making high 6 figures with a wife also engineer making 6 figures but still having a hard time justifying the purchase of the DMP 😜


----------



## mammal

cukis350 said:


> I for once a 42 years of age engineer making high 6 figures with a wife also engineer making 6 figures but still having a hard time justifying the purchase of the DMP 😜


There are people who get high end gear on a payment plan, using their line credit with their dealers (with no interest). Some made a quick cash on crypto, not thinking twice about where to put their money, and others have a different “how much do I need in savings” profile. It is very difficult to judge what is the medium age and salary, without getting some real data points


----------



## Wikinaut

cukis350 said:


> I might be out of line but I’m wondering what the average age and occupation of those that own the DMP?  For most of my time here on headfi, I thought this was more for young people i.e in the 30s-40s but then the prices of the gears are so high that most people in those age can’t afford to buy and upgrade too often. I for once a 42 years of age engineer making high 6 figures with a wife also engineer making 6 figures but still having a hard time justifying the purchase of the DMP 😜



The DMP definitively hit the wallet hard. If it hadn't been for COVID and a year in isolation that made me really appreciate personal audio, I don't think I would have bit the bullet on it. Of all my audio purchases of 2020-21, it is not my favorite, but it is the one I use the most, because of its flexibility. In that regard, I'm hard pressed to think of a better alternative.

And, to answer the question that this response elicits: my favorite pairing is the SPL phonitor xe DAC with the Focal Utopia; a perfect pairing for my taste, YMMV.


----------



## cukis350

there were mentioned in this thread about using a PSU with the DMP for better sound and also prolong the internal battery. So my question is will an external batter pack serves the same purchase and maybe cheaper too? Something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P87JTV...imm_WN5BQ0TSE1F8GAJ68RPV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Wikinaut

cukis350 said:


> there were mentioned in this thread about using a PSU with the DMP for better sound and also prolong the internal battery. So my question is will an external batter pack serves the same purchase and maybe cheaper too? Something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P87JTV...imm_WN5BQ0TSE1F8GAJ68RPV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


I can't speak to that device but since it generates a sine wave (AC) instead of supplying directly constant current (DC), I doubt it would help. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## cukis350

Hi guys, i've received my unit but when i tried use it an USB DAC with IOS devices, i can only manage to get it to work one time.  It will show in DAC mode, but when i played music on my iphone or Macbook pro, i cannot hear any sound.  Can someone points out what i am doing wrong, TIA!


----------



## gerelmx1986

cukis350 said:


> Hi guys, i've received my unit but when i tried use it an USB DAC with IOS devices, i can only manage to get it to work one time.  It will show in DAC mode, but when i played music on my iphone or Macbook pro, i cannot hear any sound.  Can someone points out what i am doing wrong, TIA!


In uSB DAC settings dis tou disable charge this device via connected source?


----------



## Wikinaut

gerelmx1986 said:


> In uSB DAC settings dis tou disable charge this device via connected source?



Does it even support charging via USB-C?


----------



## Damz87

Wikinaut said:


> Does it even support charging via USB-C?


No, I don’t believe that it does.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I am wondering if sony will release an affordable DMP-Z1 MK2


----------



## Gamerlingual

gerelmx1986 said:


> I am wondering if sony will release an affordable DMP-Z1 MK2


No


----------



## Rob49

Amazon U.K. finally have a player back in stock, at the cheapest price I’ve seen on there, £6587.


----------



## Calfredo826

Late night session 😊


----------



## Wikinaut

I must say, the more I use it, the more I love it!


----------



## Calfredo826

Wikinaut said:


> I must say, the more I use it, the more I love it!


I just got mine today 😊


----------



## Wikinaut

Calfredo826 said:


> I just got mine today 😊



If you don't get cover art for some DSD media that you upload to internal storage, look for Mr. Walkman's customer firmware back on this thread. It works for most case!

And congratulations!


----------



## Calfredo826

Wikinaut said:


> If you don't get cover art for some DSD media that you upload to internal storage, look for Mr. Walkman's customer firmware back on this thread. It works for most case!
> 
> And congratulations!


Thank you 🙏🏽


----------



## Rob49 (Jul 15, 2021)

Rob49 said:


> Amazon U.K. finally have a player back in stock, at the cheapest price I’ve seen on there, £6587.



This morning, it now says 2 in stock & a price of £6822. In the mater of hours changed in price by over £200.

( I recently put my property on the market, my timing & Sony’s is awful !!  )

It appears that the price will vary when it says 2 in stock, sold by Amazon EU then, with import duties included. At one point yesterday, it stated one in stock, Amazon & the price was as above. £6587. Odd ! ?

I’m keeping my eyes on the pricing…..should I finally pull the trigger on this…..or see if there’s another price drop ??


----------



## Rob49

Calfredo826 said:


> Late night session 😊



How are you enjoying your new device ?

I’m really needing some persuasion to finally pull the trigger……from yourself, or any owners…..


----------



## Calfredo826

I’m really enjoying it. It continues to impress me everyday. The pitch black background is amazing, the soundstage is the most impressive I’ve experienced. The timbre is spot on and it’s a very dynamic player that somehow remains musical. You wouldn’t regret getting one.


----------



## Rob49

Calfredo826 said:


> I’m really enjoying it. It continues to impress me everyday. The pitch black background is amazing, the soundstage is the most impressive I’ve experienced. The timbre is spot on and it’s a very dynamic player that somehow remains musical. You wouldn’t regret getting one.



Thanks for your feedback. Have you compared it to @MrWalkman ’s firmware updates for Walkman’s, which I feel is one of the best sounds I’ve heard, apparently replicating the sound of the DMP-Z1 & 1Z Walkman.


----------



## cukis350

I was told or at least implied  that the DMP is being discontinued so stock is running low, at least only one unit coming into the US for the month of July.


----------



## Rob49

cukis350 said:


> I was told or at least implied  that the DMP is being discontinued so stock is running low, at least only one unit coming into the US for the month of July.



Apparently, ( posted on this forum ) there’s a new Walkman, that looks like a replacement for the 1Z ? Perhaps there will be a replacement for the DMP-Z1 ??


----------



## Wikinaut

With Sony, you never know. I had a SCD-777ES, which was a follow-up to the SCD-1. The 777ES was cheaper, but still built like a tank. Not unlike the DMP-Z1. However, as far as I know, they never built a successor to the 777ES.


----------



## Calfredo826

DMP-Z1 might be a 1 and done type of product. Might not have a successor


----------



## Rob49

Well, I’ve come so close to adding the DMP-Z1 to the basket, during the last 24hrs.

Last night & during today, I was really enjoying my trio of TA-ZH1ES, HAP-S1 & Sony MDR-1AM2 headphones. I think the 1AM2’s are an underrated headphone, especially for price.

I’m sure I’m going to cave in on the DMP-Z1 sooner, than latter…..it just seems such an expense & the mental justification, although I know all owners say you won’t regret it. ( It’s certainly something I would use, daily & wouldn’t be gathering dust. )


----------



## Wikinaut

Rob49 said:


> Well, I’ve come so close to adding the DMP-Z1 to the basket, during the last 24hrs.
> 
> Last night & during today, I was really enjoying my trio of TA-ZH1ES, HAP-S1 & Sony MDR-1AM2 headphones. I think the 1AM2’s are an underrated headphone, especially for price.
> 
> I’m sure I’m going to cave in on the DMP-Z1 sooner, than latter…..it just seems such an expense & the mental justification, although I know all owners say you won’t regret it. ( It’s certainly something I would use, daily & wouldn’t be gathering dust. )



I did initially regret it, but then I was able to justify it to myself. The portability and quality are a distinct feature in my collection of 5+ DAPs. That said, it's a lot of money.

If you haven't already, I would first audition headphones. In my experience, they may have a bigger impact since you already have the excellent TA-ZH1ES.


----------



## Rob49

Wikinaut said:


> I did initially regret it, but then I was able to justify it to myself. The portability and quality are a distinct feature in my collection of 5+ DAPs. That said, it's a lot of money.
> 
> If you haven't already, I would first audition headphones. In my experience, they may have a bigger impact since you already have the excellent TA-ZH1ES.



Oh, I have other headphones, including Sony MDR-Z1R’s, hence mentioning the surprise of how underrated I think the 1AM2’s are. I’ve spent a lot of money on audio equipment, perhaps not much as some people do, but I never ever thought I’d buy the TA or Sony flagship headphones, or the HAP-S1, which was really my first Hi Res product & I’ve certainly had value from those, including my DAP’s. The DMP-Z1 would be the ultimate purchase for me, personally, certainly financially, but it would be a purchase for the rest of my days…..

If anyone can tell me how Toto, Michael Jackson & John Mayer sound, just to name a few…..I may be nearer “sold”…..


----------



## gerelmx1986

How does DMP Perform with a library size of 61, 383 files (a mix of FLAC, Hi-res flac & DSD) in two 1TB cards (lib size 1.42TB)


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Oh, I have other headphones, including Sony MDR-Z1R’s, hence mentioning the surprise of how underrated I think the 1AM2’s are. I’ve spent a lot of money on audio equipment, perhaps not much as some people do, but I never ever thought I’d buy the TA or Sony flagship headphones, or the HAP-S1, which was really my first Hi Res product & I’ve certainly had value from those, including my DAP’s. The DMP-Z1 would be the ultimate purchase for me, personally, certainly financially, but it would be a purchase for the rest of my days…..
> 
> If anyone can tell me how Toto, Michael Jackson & John Mayer sound, just to name a few…..I may be nearer “sold”…..


I may be too late to get one guess. (still not sure if the state will grant me full Blind Aid 650 euro/mo or the short version at barely 200 euro/mo. i could try getting full blinf aid with a inconclusive Campimetry - field of vision test)

WHAT i tested in BERLIN has my mind going crazy since then, the unit was well burn in hat about 2000h. I tried with my IER-M7 (Quad BA Sony IEM) and a store demo IER-Z1R which only had the SE Cable. on both ends esp the Balanced wowed me (My IEM had a 4.4mm cable).

I kow, i don't listen to modern music, only classical But i was mind blown JAW DROPPED TO CENTER OF THE PLANET just WOOOOOWWWWW.

For a BA IEM the bass was mind screwn blowing hard slamming with a deep punch. Man wow that darker than black pitch black backgtound wow wow wow. Timbre spot on so screw*n real. The sound stage...... OMG better than my WM1A with MR. Walkman FEV2+ CFW unreal huge. Did not think that my M7 would perform so damn good. Some Vivaldi albums (from NAIVE Vivaldi edition) that i tought they were recorded intimte (Concerti e Cantate da Camera volumes I to III) had a minf blowing stage. Haydn symphomies (the last 9 CD from antal dorati set on Decca) WOW as real as live and upon engaging the DSD RE OMG wow i love this featurette from DMP


----------



## gsiu33

Wikinaut said:


> That's exactly what I ended up doing. The DMP has been able to handle everything I've thrown at it: DSD64 to DSD256 and up to FLAC384. The one exception is multi-channel audio, which the DMP cannot down-sample to 2 channels, unfortunately. Another caveat, the file system is limited to 4GB files. One of my tracks in a DSD256 class album exceeded that size and I was not able to copy it over.
> 
> Worthwhile noting, the folder structure doesn't seem to be important. So I was able to preserve what I have in my Roon collection, which allows me to easily run a sync files operation to copy over anything new I add to my collection.
> 
> Finally, for anyone reading this, Mr. Walkman's custom firmware (1.02) fixes the issue with DSD albums not properly displaying their art.


I didn’t aware that there is a custom firmware for DMP-Z1. Would you please share with me the link?


----------



## Wikinaut

gsiu33 said:


> I didn’t aware that there is a custom firmware for DMP-Z1. Would you please share with me the link?



It's somewhere in this thread, IIRC. I tried finding it again when I posted about it, but didn't succeed in the few minutes I gave myself. The poster was *Mr. Walkman*.


----------



## Wikinaut

gerelmx1986 said:


> How does DMP Perform with a library size of 61, 383 files (a mix of FLAC, Hi-res flac & DSD) in two 1TB cards (lib size 1.42TB)


I use approx. 768GB (256 internal, one 512 SD card) and it works fine. However, every time you switch back to standalone mode it scans the library to see if there are any changes. It only takes a few seconds, but I'd expect that delay to be longer with more capacity. Also, there is handful of DSD64 albums that don't show their cover correctly. No idea why. Finally, don't use the Sony software to sync your files! I found two awesome freewares (that I rewarded with some $$$) softwares on PC to tag files that had missing metadata and then synchronize only changes them between my music repository and the DMP drives.


----------



## Calfredo826

Wikinaut said:


> I use approx. 768GB (256 internal, one 512 SD card) and it works fine. However, every time you switch back to standalone mode it scans the library to see if there are any changes. It only takes a few seconds, but I'd expect that delay to be longer with more capacity. Also, there is handful of DSD64 albums that don't show their cover correctly. No idea why. Finally, don't use the Sony software to sync your files! I found two awesome freewares (that I rewarded with some $$$) softwares on PC to tag files that had missing metadata and then synchronize only changes them between my music repository and the DMP drives.


What music software are the ones you use?


----------



## Wikinaut

Calfredo826 said:


> What music software are the ones you use?


FreeFileSync for synchronizing. It allows you to exclude PDFs and folders you may not want to copy over. For example, DMP-Z1 does not like 5.1 surround files (DSD or FLAC).
Mp3tag for updating the cover art of DSD files. I use AudioRanger for everything else. It has a much better UI, but doesn't support DSD.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I use sony MediaGo to manage my library
MP3tag to tag my files
Windows explorer to sync
Db poweramp to convert to different formats


----------



## Rurouni

Is there any audio lag on the DMP-Z1 if you use it in usb dac mode connected to a PC and play videos via YouTube for example?


----------



## cukis350

Rurouni said:


> Is there any audio lag on the DMP-Z1 if you use it in usb dac mode connected to a PC and play videos via YouTube for example?


Yes. Pictures and voice will not sync. In the manual it mentioned this because Sony prioritized audio as number one.


----------



## Rurouni

cukis350 said:


> Yes. Pictures and voice will not sync. In the manual it mentioned this because Sony prioritized audio as number one.


Ah okay thanks so much for the info.


----------



## newworld666

cukis350 said:


> Yes. Pictures and voice will not sync. In the manual it mentioned this because Sony prioritized audio as number one.


That's strange .. with my Dell Win 10pro laptop ... I use a Sony WM1A as USB-C dac and also watch TV or Films without any issue (even in Bluetooth) it' correctly synced.


----------



## cukis350

MrWalkman said:


> Hello,
> 
> The stock DMP-Z1 firmware has received a fix, that will allow it show all album cover images.
> 
> ...


Hello MrWalkman,

can you tell me how to installed your modified firmware via mac?  I downloaded your firmwared via the link you provided and there are two versions of the firmware.  I unzipped the file but there is no "update tool" only the .exe file and my macbook pro cannot open or do anything with it.  Does your firmware only works on windows?

thank you!


----------



## Rob49

Well……that’s the final space used up in my TV cabinet……


----------



## Wikinaut

😍


----------



## Rob49

Hi guys…..my newly acquired new toy doesn’t appear to have a USB - C cable in the box / case ?? Have I missed something….or is it missing ??


----------



## Wikinaut

Rob49 said:


> Hi guys…..my newly acquired new toy doesn’t appear to have a USB - C cable in the box / case ?? Have I missed something….or is it missing ??


Frankly, I don't remember if one was included. The manual usually lists what is in the box, but I don't recall if one was included. And I put the box in storage, so I can't check. Sorry.


----------



## Calfredo826

Mine came with one included


----------



## Rob49

Wikinaut said:


> Frankly, I don't remember if one was included. The manual usually lists what is in the box, but I don't recall if one was included. And I put the box in storage, so I can't check. Sorry.



Thanks. I have a feeling I’d read somewhere that someone had said it wasn’t included. Is any USB - C cable suitable ? I obviously can’t transfer onto internal storage without one.


----------



## Rob49

Calfredo826 said:


> Mine came with one included



Perhaps it’s a U.K. thing ?? I’ll ring Sony tomorrow to ask.


----------



## Calfredo826

I’ll double check as soon as I get home but I’m sure mine came with one. I’ll update you accordingly.


----------



## Rob49

Calfredo826 said:


> I’ll double check as soon as I get home but I’m sure mine came with one. I’ll update you accordingly.



Cheers. Thank you.


----------



## Calfredo826

Rob49 said:


> Cheers. Thank you.


Here’s the cable that came with it.


----------



## Rob49

Calfredo826 said:


> Here’s the cable that came with it.



Definitely can’t see that in the box. If in the end compartment with power unit, it’s not there ??


----------



## Rob49

I found the USB - C cable ! I thought it was odd & mentioned it to my brother, why there isn’t any Sony paperwork e.t.c. I was in a rush, just to quickly open before dashing to pick my brother up…..& didn’t think about those ‘hidden like parts” in the packaging….


----------



## Wikinaut

Rob49 said:


> I found the USB - C cable ! I thought it was odd & mentioned it to my brother, why there isn’t any Sony paperwork e.t.c. I was in a rush, just to quickly open before dashing to pick my brother up…..& didn’t think about those ‘hidden like parts” in the packaging….


Glad to hear you found them!


----------



## Rob49

Wikinaut said:


> Glad to hear you found them!



Thanks. Feel a bit stupid, but just carried the case into the lounge, leaving the packaging in the bedroom. I placed the case on the floor & my twin brother said, “Have you bought a gun” ?

I didn’t want to give any immediate impressions, because if I’m honest, I wasn’t wowed & just thought this is just a different sound signature, to my other audio equipment & then later this evening I used the DSD Remastering & this appears to be the “key to unlock” what this player can do.

It’s 11 : 40pm here & I’m so tired, but fear I’m not going to bed just yet….


----------



## Calfredo826

Rob49 said:


> Thanks. Feel a bit stupid, but just carried the case into the lounge, leaving the packaging in the bedroom. I placed the case on the floor & my twin brother said, “Have you bought a gun” ?
> 
> I didn’t want to give any immediate impressions, because if I’m honest, I wasn’t wowed & just thought this is just a different sound signature, to my other audio equipment & then later this evening I used the DSD Remastering & this appears to be the “key to unlock” what this player can do.
> 
> It’s 11 : 40pm here & I’m so tired, but fear I’m not going to bed just yet….


Haha it will continue to get better and better. I promise you 😉


----------



## Wikinaut

Rob49 said:


> Thanks. Feel a bit stupid, but just carried the case into the lounge, leaving the packaging in the bedroom. I placed the case on the floor & my twin brother said, “Have you bought a gun” ?
> 
> I didn’t want to give any immediate impressions, because if I’m honest, I wasn’t wowed & just thought this is just a different sound signature, to my other audio equipment & then later this evening I used the DSD Remastering & this appears to be the “key to unlock” what this player can do.
> 
> It’s 11 : 40pm here & I’m so tired, but fear I’m not going to bed just yet….



First thing I did was have it play through my entire collection repeatedly for 200 hours. That took a while. Over 200 hours to be exact!

I find that it performs best in Direct mode on 96/192kHz at 24bit material, but to be honest, I'm sometimes wowed by how good old 44.1/16 sounds as well. It really comes down to the quality of the recording. Or maybe my hearing isn't as good as I believe it to be! DSD64 and above is also amazing. IIRC, DSD512 is not supported, but I can't imagine I would notice a difference with DSD256 to begin with!

Very happy for you. The biggest game change for me is how portable it is. You will want to take it with you everywhere! Enjoy!


----------



## Rob49 (Jul 27, 2021)

Wikinaut said:


> First thing I did was have it play through my entire collection repeatedly for 200 hours. That took a while. Over 200 hours to be exact!
> 
> I find that it performs best in Direct mode on 96/192kHz at 24bit material, but to be honest, I'm sometimes wowed by how good old 44.1/16 sounds as well. It really comes down to the quality of the recording. Or maybe my hearing isn't as good as I believe it to be! DSD64 and above is also amazing. IIRC, DSD512 is not supported, but I can't imagine I would notice a difference with DSD256 to begin with!
> 
> Very happy for you. The biggest game change for me is how portable it is. You will want to take it with you everywhere! Enjoy!



Thank you. I’m basically bungalow bound, but may possibly take it to my partner’s at the end of next month ?…..but I’m very wary of moving around with it, just taking it from the cabinet shelf, to plug in my laptop, is a worry ! Just hope I don’t drop it !

I’ve always just ripped CD’s then “upsampled” them using JRiver. This is fine for my Walkman’s, but listening from the off, it just didn’t sound right. When I re-ripped some albums this evening, of course without upsampling, it sounded right & so much better, using the “magic” DSD Remastering.

I really should go to bed…..can already see this is going to be SO addictive…..


----------



## cosplayerkyo

It really is addictive listening to everything on the DMP.

I also agree, I‘ve found myself much preferring Direct Mode.

Whitgir did a fantastic review of the DMP here:  https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sony-dmp-z1-digital-music-player-signature-series.23308/reviews
He goes over the several different DAC filters and did an excellent job explaining them.  I found myself always using the “Short-Delay Sharp”.


----------



## Damz87

@Rob49 congrats on your new DMP!


----------



## Rob49

cosplayerkyo said:


> It really is addictive listening to everything on the DMP.
> 
> I also agree, I‘ve found myself much preferring Direct Mode.
> 
> ...


I noticed DSD Remastering won’t activate without Direct Mode.

I read Whitigir’s review sometime ago & this past few days & watched his YouTube video, which I have before & you can hear the clarity of the music. ( If only he would have done less talking, so as I could hear the music more. LOL ) One of the reasons I eventually decided to buy the player & nothing but positive feedback on this thread. ( I’m just trying to push the cost out my mind. )

I haven’t tried the filters yet, but will experiment tomorrow, or I should now say, later today…..when will I go to bed….??

Well recorded music is excellent with the DMP-Z1.


----------



## Rob49

Damz87 said:


> @Rob49 congrats on your new DMP!



Thank you @Damz87 I’m still trying to get over the shock of adding to the basket & actually proceeding to checkout…..


----------



## Rob49 (Jul 28, 2021)

“Fever temperatures rising now”.

Well I’ve had my DMP-Z1 just over 24hrs now & clocked up 16hrs playback. ( Haven’t tried any filters yet, purely because it’s difficult to stop listening. ) I’m certainly more than happy with Direct Mode & DSD Remastering on.

It is without a shadow of a doubt, the best audio device I have ever heard. I was listening to my favourite artist of all time, ( Photo a clue ! ) very early this morning, this was after listening till 2am. I doubt I’ve had 4hrs sleep ?? ( & I suffer from severe M.E. / Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, so really going beyond limits. )

One of my symptoms is extreme noise hypersensitivity. For the first 5 years ( 21 years ago ) I couldn’t even get through one song without having to switch my CD player off…..clearly, on length of listening periods, there’s been some improvement there.

I mention my noise hypersensitivity, because of the soundstage that I’ve experienced during these past 24hrs, with the DMP-Z1. When listening to music, you know there’s musical details, but they’re recessed / buried in the mix. That’s now changed, due to this “witchcraft, of a glossy glass black box”.

Michael’s music has always been full of detail, his voice, wasn’t just a voice, it was a musical instrument, a human beatbox, like no other. Those musical details, are now right there, in your left ear cup, ( or right. ) For my personal situation, this can actually become a little distressing, perhaps not quite that strong ?….but certainly something that was a little distracting. Imagine, not being able to have a ticking clock in any room ? Michael’s musical instrumentation, suddenly becoming a very clear repetitive loop, in my left ear cup, felt like that ticking clock.

This isn’t a criticism of the soundstage & detail with this player, it’s the complete opposite, purely from an audio experience, ( putting aside personal noise hypersensitivity. ) I’ve never heard any of my music like this before, the detail, the clarity, the soundstage, the timbre of the instruments, not forgetting the feel & purity of vocals.

This REALLY is a audio player that just doesn’t playback music, but actually FEELS IT ! It truly is unique !

It was a huge expense, ( for anyone ) but for musical enjoyment like I’ve never known, I think it’s worth it. If you can be fortunate to own the DMP-Z1 you have years of pleasure ahead & I can’t ever imagine ever tiring of the sound of this amazing audio player.


----------



## Calfredo826

Quick question, is it ok to leave the DMP plugged in? Or will it affect battery?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Calfredo826 said:


> Quick question, is it ok to leave the DMP plugged in? Or will it affect battery?


Aas i know there are two modes AC preferred and battery preferred


----------



## Rob49 (Jul 29, 2021)

Calfredo826 said:


> Quick question, is it ok to leave the DMP plugged in? Or will it affect battery?



This is what I was going to ask today. What is best for battery life & is there any harm using AC power the majority of the time ?

Also, I assume you shouldn’t fully charge, or let it completely drain ??

I’ve never fussed too much about my Walkman’s, but given the expense I need to take more care of battery life.


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> I found the USB - C cable ! I thought it was odd & mentioned it to my brother, why there isn’t any Sony paperwork e.t.c. I was in a rush, just to quickly open before dashing to pick my brother up…..& didn’t think about those ‘hidden like parts” in the packaging….


That is where it should be


----------



## gsiu33

Wikinaut said:


> I use approx. 768GB (256 internal, one 512 SD card) and it works fine. However, every time you switch back to standalone mode it scans the library to see if there are any changes. It only takes a few seconds, but I'd expect that delay to be longer with more capacity. Also, there is handful of DSD64 albums that don't show their cover correctly. No idea why. Finally, don't use the Sony software to sync your files! I found two awesome freewares (that I rewarded with some $$$) softwares on PC to tag files that had missing metadata and then synchronize only changes them between my music repository and the DMP drives.


I have thousands DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 albums and don’t have issue to show the cover provided that the art cover are in baseline (Sony doesn’t support progressive jpeg). Only problem is that when the .dsf file is larger than 2GB, usually on DSD256 album.


----------



## Wikinaut

gsiu33 said:


> I have thousands DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 albums and don’t have issue to show the cover provided that the art cover are in baseline (Sony doesn’t support progressive jpeg). Only problem is that when the .dsf file is larger than 2GB, usually on DSD256 album.


I'm at a loss as well. I was able to fix almost all albums except a handful. I'm also running Mr. Walkman custom firmware, which addresses some issues.

What software did you use to add images to albums that were missing them? Maybe I just need to try another app.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Wikinaut said:


> I'm at a loss as well. I was able to fix almost all albums except a handful. I'm also running Mr. Walkman custom firmware, which addresses some issues.
> 
> What software did you use to add images to albums that were missing them? Maybe I just need to try another app.


I use mp3tag. Note that external cover (if using .dff files) must be named like the xontaining folder


----------



## Wikinaut

gerelmx1986 said:


> I use mp3tag. Note that external cover (if using .dff files) must be named like the xontaining folder


That's what I use as well. I even deleted the files (.dsf) and re-copied them, just in case. No change. I must be doing something wrong. I'll give it another shot. Thx!


----------



## gsiu33

Wikinaut said:


> I'm at a loss as well. I was able to fix almost all albums except a handful. I'm also running Mr. Walkman custom firmware, which addresses some issues.
> 
> What software did you use to add images to albums that were missing them? Maybe I just need to try another app.


mp3tag. I am using stock firmware.


----------



## cosplayerkyo

On a Windows computer, try extracting the photo from the song with mp3tag.  Then open it with MSPAINT and save it.
Re-add that saved photo back into the audio file.  I’ve found this has consistently worked for every song on the DMP


----------



## Rob49

DMP-Z1 + Sony MDR-1AM2 = Surprisingly, INSANE !!!!!!


----------



## Damz87

Rob49 said:


> DMP-Z1 + Sony MDR-1AM2 = Surprisingly, INSANE !!!!!!


DMP-Z1 makes everything sound insane 😄


----------



## gsiu33

Calfredo826 said:


> Mine came with one included


There is a USB-C to USB-A cable included, but the USB-C is connected to the back of DMP-Z1 while the one connect to computer is a USB-A only.


----------



## cat3600

Hey guys long time silent lurker on this thread and also this thread made me buy the DMP-Z1 last year Oct, I mainly use it in DAC mode connected to my android phone using USB Audio Player Pro or connected to my PC listening to Tidal through Roon. Just curious if most of you only use music locally stored on the player or stream? Either way sadly I am rarely using the DMP-Z1 as I have never been a headphone type person. I have always had a pretty good hi-fi main audio system at home!


----------



## cat3600

Can anyone guide me about using the DMP-Z1 as a pre-amp I am planning to buy a cable Pentaconn to 2 x XLR to connect to a power amp, has anyone used this setup and if the DMP-Z1 can drive a power amp, it's so quite and neutral I wonder how it will sound as a pre amp


----------



## coolhand (Aug 4, 2021)

I recommend that you employ the unbalanced output utilising a 3.5, to dual RCA cable for this purpose.
In such a manner the DMP-Z1 operates _superlatively_ as a Source/DAC/Preamp, and I've yet to find any shortcomings when connecting to a multitude of devices in my studio.

It is NOT specifically beneficial to employ the 'balanced' output into dual XLR's (and may result in ground noise issues & potential damage to the DMP if the closely spaced Pentaconn plug pinout & soldering is not carefully undertaken).

The reason is that the term 'balanced' is often incorrectly interchanged to describe how cabling, circuits, amplifiers and headphones etc.. are defined and/or connected, so without giving you a lengthy lesson in the vagaries of the definition, I will simply point out that the 'balanced' output channels of the DMP _do not_ have or share a common ground reference whilst typically many devices which employ XLR inputs _do _(whereby Pin 1 may also be connected directly to the chassis ground). 
There are quite a few variations on this theme, but what is germane to this discussion is that the so called 'balanced' output of the DMP is actually a floating differential and there is no intrinsic benefit from using this output for devices other than headphones whereby it provides more available gain than the unbalanced output.

Such an arrangement actually makes for handy and rapidly switchable preamp/headphone amp usage because of the savvy manner in which the DMP designers implemented the volume control logic switching. The outputs are auto sensing with relay switched muting for perfectly silent and pop free change-over when using either output, and the Pentaconn output always assumes priority if and when both sockets are simultaneously connected.

Thus one can simply leave the unbalanced output (with RCA's on the end of the cable) permanently connected to their amp, active speakers or device of choice, and then simply connect or disconnect their headphones to the Pentaconn output whenever they wish to listen to them.
The DMP will silently auto-switch the output-muting relays with but a brief changeover delay.... it's executed most elegantly, kudos to the DMP team at Sony !


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 4, 2021)

I used 4.4mm toward dual XLR without ground.  Also the ground on the 4.4mm isn’t connected internally from the DMP Z1.  In this instance, any typical dual XLR will also work

The only thing is that the DMP Z1 has not any LO socket.  It is possible to modify it under that senses, but the additional wirings would also act as an antennas that introduce noises into the system at this stage.  This is the main reason why the DMP Z1 has no LO at all

So, technically, using it this way will be double amplifications.  It didn’t sound bad IMO, but that doesn’t mean it would sound at it prime either


----------



## cat3600

coolhand said:


> I recommend that you employ the unbalanced output utilising a 3.5, to dual RCA cable for this purpose.
> In such a manner the DMP-Z1 operates _superlatively_ as a Source/DAC/Preamp, and I've yet to find any shortcomings when connecting to a multitude of devices in my studio.
> 
> It is NOT advisable (and may possibly result in damage to the DMP) to employ the 'balanced' output into dual XLR's.
> ...


Thanks for the detailed post


----------



## Rob49

I’ve just been thinking of connecting my DMP-Z1 to my Sony STR-DN180 AVR, using RCA input, using the cable pictured. ( Not sure what this cable is from ??….but it doesn’t work ) It doesn’t look like a typical RCA connection, not sure if it’s a phono connection / lead ??


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> I’ve just been thinking of connecting my DMP-Z1 to my Sony STR-DN180 AVR, using RCA input, using the cable pictured. ( Not sure what this cable is from ??….but it doesn’t work ) It doesn’t look like a typical RCA connection, not sure if it’s a phono connection / lead ??


Phono is still RCA.  There must be another reason why it doesn’t work. Perhaps the input selection on the receiver ?


----------



## coolhand

cat3600 said:


> Thanks for the detailed post


I just edited it for further clarity


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Phono is still RCA.  There must be another reason why it doesn’t work. Perhaps the input selection on the receiver ?



The input selection is “video 1”, which I was using with a Sony mini disc player. As I said, I don’t know what this cable was with, or if I just bought it separately, but I turned up the volume high & no sound.

Do I have to set anything on the DMP-Z1 ?? I assume you should be able to use any AVR with RCA inputs ??


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> The input selection is “video 1”, which I was using with a Sony mini disc player. As I said, I don’t know what this cable was with, or if I just bought it separately, but I turned up the volume high & no sound.
> 
> Do I have to set anything on the DMP-Z1 ?? I assume you should be able to use any AVR with RCA inputs ??


Should be able to as long as it is at the correct input.  The DMP Z1 connection will need to light up whether balanced or single ended ? If you can hear the sound from 3.5mm on DMP Z1 the. The rca cables as pictured should work


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Should be able to as long as it is at the correct input.  The DMP Z1 connection will need to light up whether balanced or single ended ? If you can hear the sound from 3.5mm on DMP Z1 the. The rca cables as pictured should work



Thanks @Whitigir i’ll have another look tomorrow…..


----------



## Maui

Do anyone know where we can get the old 1.01 firmware for DMP-Z1? thinking to downgrade mine from 1.02. Thanks.


----------



## efftee

Maui said:


> Do anyone know where we can get the old 1.01 firmware for DMP-Z1? thinking to downgrade mine from 1.02. Thanks.


May I ask why you'd want to do that?


----------



## eastshine

I succeeded in creating the strongest portable player system and the strongest koss ksc-75

Source DMP-Z1 (External Power-Lg hg2 + Hybrid dc Cable Made of Bridged Diamond and Picolodiamond)

Digital Cable: burubeat audio Ultra Fantasia c to micro b

DAC: Chord Hugo2

interconnect: Nordost ODIN replica

Amplifier: Mass-Kobo model404 (External Power- a123 Iron Phosphate + Fury Fire + Wire Dream 3% + 7% Gold Silver Alloy Wire)

Headphones: Koss ksc-75 parts express headband


----------



## Maui

efftee said:


> May I ask why you'd want to do that?


Missed the old intimate soundstage.


----------



## efftee

Maui said:


> Missed the old intimate soundstage.


Can you share more about your impression before and after the firmware upgrade?


----------



## efftee

eastshine said:


> I succeeded in creating the strongest portable player system and the strongest koss ksc-75
> 
> Source DMP-Z1 (External Power-Lg hg2 + Hybrid dc Cable Made of Bridged Diamond and Picolodiamond)
> 
> ...


What's the point of using a DMP-Z1 when you are using an external DAC and amp? Just a source? What's the merit in that?


----------



## Nostoi

eastshine said:


> I succeeded in creating the* strongest portable *player system and the strongest koss ksc-75
> 
> Source DMP-Z1 (External Power-Lg hg2 + Hybrid dc Cable Made of Bridged Diamond and Picolodiamond)
> 
> ...


You misspelt "most idiotic."


----------



## coolhand

Nostoi said:


> You misspelt "most idiotic."


Most Strongest ≠ Most Idiotic
You may not like it; apparently it's an acquired taste 😝


----------



## Nostoi (Aug 17, 2021)

coolhand said:


> Most Strongest ≠ Most Idiotic
> You may not like it; apparently it's an acquired taste 😝


I have nothing against idiocy for the sake of idiocy, but this set-up above doesn't even make any sense! As the chap above says, if the source is a DMP-Z1 running into a Hugo 2, then you might as well replace the DMP-Z1 with any kind of normal Android device/phone.

I can only assume it's either trolling or some kind of avant-garde statement on the excesses of high-end gear (to wit, the inclusion of a $20 pair of Koss KSC75 as the cherry on the cake). If so, bravo!

Then again, he might just be a millennial.


----------



## coolhand

Nostoi said:


> I have nothing against idiocy for the sake of idiocy, but this set-up above doesn't even make any sense! As the chap above says, if the source is a DMP-Z1 running into a Hugo 2, then you might as well replace the DMP-Z1 with any kind of normal Android device/phone.
> 
> I can only assume it's either trolling or some kind of avant-garde statement on the excesses of high-end gear (to wit, the inclusion of a $20 pair of Koss KSC75 as the cherry on the cake). If so, bravo!
> 
> Then again, he might just be a millennial.


Personally I applaud innovation and thinking outside the box.... although I must admit he had me at 'parts express headband' 🤡
Truth be known is that the DMP-Z1 is quite the conversation starter when used purely as paper weight, and you may be surprised to know that it also doubles as an excellent doorstop too. Now that's what I call versatile !!!


----------



## cat3600

Nostoi said:


> I can only assume it's either trolling or some kind of avant-garde statement on the excesses of high-end gear (to wit, the inclusion of a $20 pair of Koss KSC75 as the cherry on the cake). If so, bravo!


lmao that headphone reminds me of my Sony Walkman days though the Sony orange ones looked way cooler 😅


----------



## eastshine (Aug 17, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> 나는 바보를 위해 바보에 반대하는 것은 없지만 위의 설정은 의미가 없습니다! 위의 챕터에서 말했듯이 소스가 Hugo 2에서 실행되는 DMP-Z1이라면 DMP-Z1을 모든 종류의 일반 Android 기기/전화로 교체할 수도 있습니다.
> 
> 나는 그것이 트롤링이거나 고급 장비의 과잉에 대한 일종의 전위적인 진술이라고 가정할 수 있습니다(즉, 케이크 위에 체리로 Koss KSC75 20달러 쌍 포함). 그렇다면 브라보!
> 
> 그렇다면 그는 단지 천년왕일지도 모릅니다.


If using dmp-z1 as a source in that setup is meaningless, then most audio files would be stupid to match audio-only PCs.


----------



## Nostoi

eastshine said:


> 해당 설정에서 dmp-z1을 소스로 사용하는 것이 의미가 없다면 대부분의 오디오 파일은 오디오 전용 PC와 일치하기에는 어리석은 일입니다.


Ok, so it's not satire. 

But let me just ask one question: are you not using the Hugo 2 as the USB-DAC from your DMP-Z1?


----------



## eastshine

Nostoi said:


> 좋아, 그래서 그것은 풍자가 아니다.
> 
> 하지만 한 가지 질문을 드리겠습니다. Hugo 2를 DMP-Z1의 USB-DAC로 사용하지 않습니까?


네, 저는 Hugo 2를 USB dac로 사용했습니다. 뭐가 문제 야?


----------



## coolhand

Nostoi said:


> Ok, so it's not satire.


C'mon man.. you and I both know that whether intentional or not, it most certainly is brilliant satire.
And laughter being the best medicine makes everything sound better too..!


----------



## Nostoi (Aug 17, 2021)

eastshine said:


> 네, 저는 Hugo 2를 USB dac로 사용했습니다. 뭐가 문제 야?


No problem at all - using the Hugo 2 as a USB-DAC is a great idea. I just don't understand what function the DMP-Z1 is doing here. As soon as the source is connected to the Hugo 2, the output is the same. To put it in other terms, you're basically rendering the DMP-Z1 a glorified SD Card holder, albeit with a big shiny golden knob.

Why, for example, not just use....I don't know....a phone as the source connected to the Hugo 2? The results would be the same.

In any case, sir, I wish you all the best in this endeavour and will bid you aideu....


----------



## cat3600

The DMP-Z1 deserves the white glove treatment 😉


----------



## eastshine

Nostoi said:


> 전혀 문제 없습니다. Hugo 2를 USB-DAC로 사용하는 것은 좋은 생각입니다. DMP-Z1이 여기서 어떤 기능을 하는지 이해가 되지 않습니다. 소스가 Hugo 2에 연결되자마자 출력은 동일합니다. 다른 말로 하자면, 기본적으로 DMP-Z1을 영광스러운 SD 카드 홀더로 렌더링하고 있지만 크고 반짝이는 황금 손잡이가 있습니다.
> 
> 예를 들어, 그냥 사용하지 않는 이유는....모르겠습니다.휴고 2에 연결된 소스로 전화? 결과는 같을 것입니다.
> 
> 어쨌든, 선생님, 이 노력에 최선을 다하기를 기원하며 당신에게 도움을 줄 것입니다.... :엄지손가락:


우선, 휴대폰은 음악만 재생하도록 설계되지 않았습니다. 이것이 우리 모두가 dap을 사용하는 이유입니다. 따라서 휴대폰에서 Hugo2를 연결할 때 불필요한 노이즈가 침입할 수 있습니다. 하지만 dmp-z1을 소스로 사용하면 노이즈 없이 깨끗한 신호를 보낼 수 있습니다.


----------



## eastshine

eastshine said:


> If using dmp-z1 as a source in that setup is meaningless, then most audio files would be stupid to match audio-only PCs.


I wanted to say this earlier, but it went up incorrectly due to an automatic translation error on Chrome.


----------



## Nostoi

eastshine said:


> 우선, 휴대폰은 음악만 재생하도록 설계되지 않았습니다. 이것이 우리 모두가 dap을 사용하는 이유입니다. 따라서 휴대폰에서 Hugo2를 연결할 때 불필요한 노이즈가 침입할 수 있습니다. 하지만 dmp-z1을 소스로 사용하면 노이즈 없이 깨끗한 신호를 보낼 수 있습니다.


OK.

And, out of interest, is the DAC portion on the Hugo 2 "better" than the DMP-Z1: i.e., is it more resolving with a more agreeable timbre and a better technical performance?


----------



## eastshine (Aug 17, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> 좋아요.
> 
> 그리고 흥미롭게도 Hugo 2의 DAC 부분이 DMP-Z1보다 "더 나은" 것입니까?


How about this? I connected it out of curiosity, not because I thought Hugo 2 was better. Imitating it because it's usually used separately in a stationary system.


----------



## Nostoi

eastshine said:


> How about this? I connected it out of curiosity, not because I thought Hugo 2 was better. Imitating it because it's usually used separately in a stationary system.


And........Nostoi has left the chatroom (again)


----------



## gerelmx1986

The koss KSC


eastshine said:


> I succeeded in creating the strongest portable player system and the strongest koss ksc-75
> 
> Source DMP-Z1 (External Power-Lg hg2 + Hybrid dc Cable Made of Bridged Diamond and Picolodiamond)
> 
> ...


are thede the koss portapro?


----------



## Vitaly2017

LOL you guys seem to have a lot of fun here 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Maui

Anyone have old 1.01 firmware for DMP-Z1? thanks.


----------



## coolhand

PM me.


----------



## gsiu33

eastshine said:


> I succeeded in creating the strongest portable player system and the strongest koss ksc-75
> 
> Source DMP-Z1 (External Power-Lg hg2 + Hybrid dc Cable Made of Bridged Diamond and Picolodiamond)
> 
> ...


you may consider to replace the DMP-Z1 with a ZX300 and make the whole system portable, and also find that there is no difference in sound quality.


----------



## Wikinaut

Can't wait to hear the Dan Clark Audio Stealth on the DMP-Z1. Should be interesting!


----------



## Decoconnas

Somewhat seriously considering this unit as I have been wanting for a while to update my digital source (Hap Z1es) and my headphone amp (V200).  Can this drive somewhat inefficient planars, I have LCD3.  And, has anyone used this as a preamp with 4.4mm to RCA cables?  And if so would it go into the power amp or into the preamp (likes phono stage for example)?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Sinc demoing DMP back in may. I am wondering how well do the sony XBA-Z5 scale with it? Any one tried this combo @Damz87  or @Redcarmoose  ?


----------



## Damz87

gerelmx1986 said:


> Sinc demoing DMP back in may. I am wondering how well do the sony XBA-Z5 scale with it? Any one tried this combo @Damz87  or @Redcarmoose  ?


It’s been a while since I had XBA-Z5 but yes, I do remember it scaling quite well with DMP-Z1. Main improvement that I can remember was in treble extension and better mid bass control.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Damz87 said:


> It’s been a while since I had XBA-Z5 but yes, I do remember it scaling quite well with DMP-Z1. Main improvement that I can remember was in treble extension and better mid bass control.


Is worth of it
Paying 699 us dollar for a brand new xba-z5 when i hqve IRR-z1r


----------



## Damz87

gerelmx1986 said:


> Is worth of it
> Paying 699 us dollar for a brand new xba-z5 when i hqve IRR-z1r


No I don’t think it’s worth $700 in today’s IEM market, especially since you already own IER-Z1R


----------



## Vamp898 (Sep 3, 2021)

The XBA-Z5 is on sale at amazon.co.jp for ~48000yen (In germany that is, including shipping and taxes, roughly 480€, maybe thats a good deal in your country too?). But owning the IER-Z1R i would not go for the XBA-Z5. The XBA-Z5 sounds like a cheap version of the IER-Z1R, i'd rather go for the IER-M9 cause the M9 souns like a more balanced version of the Z1R and not just like a cheaper version.

Somewhere in this thread i read lots of different things about the DMP-Z1 and i thought as i understand japanese, can bring some insight about the DMP-Z1 questions asked here.

I have not read the whole thread as it has too many pages but it seems like not all questions have been answered. If i'm wrong, please excuse me.

One of the tings I've read here was that the DMP-Z1 and the WM1Z was developed by different teams and so don't share the same sound signature.

They haven't been. The same Team that developed the NW-ZX1 and ZX2 and ZX100 and ZX300 and ZX500 is the exact same team that developed the NW-WM1Z and the DMP-Z1

Team Leader of this Team is 佐藤 朝明 (Asaaki Sato) and he seems to work at Sony like forever. He works for the ソニービデオ＆サウンドプロダクツ株式会社 (Sony Video & Sound Products Corporation)

You know his face from the NW-ZX2 and the DMP-Z1 commercial videos from Sony where he presents the product.

The guy who is responsible for the Sound of the DMP-Z1 is 佐藤浩朗 (Hiroo Sato), the exact same guy that developed the Sound for the NW-WM1Z.

The DMP-Z1 uses the 8th Generation of Analog Amps developed by Sony by the Team of Asaaki Sato. The Generations 1-7 only have been used in prototypes and the only reason to not use the S-Master HX in the DMP-Z1 was, because it could not output enough power.

The TA-ZH1ES uses a power supply, needs USB-Cables/Walkman to connect to and so on. All these things cause an unclean signal. To still get a perfect sound and a clean signal out of the TA-ZH1ES it needed to be huge and complex (4,4kg!) and because it needed to S-Master HX to archive that, it could not output enough power as they initially wished.

So the TA-ZH1ES is, according to Sony, the best sound they can produce but with the downside, that its a huge and heavy brick that is not portable.

An Analog Amp could have output more power than the S-Master HX, but then the Signal wouldn't have been as clean. So Sony experimentet and tested for years with Analog Amps but because the Signal was never clean enough, they always used the S-Master HX (which does have limited output power)

To solve this issue, the idea was to remove anything that introduces noise. So remove the socket power supply, remove the external player, and so on.

The DMP-Z1 is basically an portable TA-ZH1ES for (mostly) business people who travel a lot, maybe have several places of living or often go to hotels and stuff like that.

The DMP-Z1 and the IER-Z1R have been developed together and are advertised together for exactly this group of people. They were designed for people who want the best sound possible with them when they leave their house.

The IER-Z1R was not (as many think) developed to be better than the MDR-Z1R, fix its issues or whatever and the DMP-Z1 was not designed to replace or be better as the TA-ZH1ES.

The MDR-Z1R, TA-ZH1ES and NW-WM1Z are the original Signature Serious and are, what Sony considers, the best sound you can get.

The DMP-Z1 and IER-Z1R later were added to the Signature Series to provide the same sound quality but portable.

And the biggest issue of the NW-WM1Z is its output power, not its sound quality. Yes, the TA-ZH1ES and the DMP-Z1 sound better than the NW-WM1Z, but the improvement is very marginal as stated by Asaaki Sato and Hiroo Sato. The DMP-Z1 does sound a little bit better, but that is not its main feature, it's a side effect. It sounds as much better as the TA-ZH1ES does.

Sources:
https://www.sony.jp/walkman/special/flagship/manufacturer/
https://www.sony.jp/audio/special/interview/ZH1ES/
https://www.sony.jp/feature/products/181101/?s_pid=jp_fsl_dmp_feature_dmp
https://www.sony.jp/headphone/special/park/products_m1/tech6.html
https://www.sony.jp/high-resolution/flagship/interview07/
https://www.sony.jp/feature/owner/hr/180524/


----------



## gerelmx1986

When i demoed the DMP in berlin with my IER-m7 was instantly wowed nu the sound.
I’ve scrapped the Z5 and better save dor a DMP before the sognature series gets discontinued

i have from the series
MDR- and IER-Z1R as well as WM1A and as aside the 4BA IER-M7


----------



## pdL389

Vamp898 said:


> And the biggest issue of the NW-WM1Z is its output power, not its sound quality. Yes, the TA-ZH1ES and the DMP-Z1 sound better than the NW-WM1Z, but the improvement is very marginal as stated by Asaaki Sato and Hiroo Sato. The DMP-Z1 does sound a little bit better, but that is not its main feature, it's a side effect. It sounds as much better as the TA-ZH1ES does.
> 
> Sources:
> https://www.sony.jp/walkman/special/flagship/manufacturer/
> ...


As the owner of both WM1Z and DMP, I agree the output power of WM1Z is weaker than that of DMP's.  However, DMP improvements over WM1Z and TA-ZH1ES are a whole lot more than marginal.  DMP beats those two by the massive sound stage and reproduction of micro details.


----------



## efftee

pdL389 said:


> As the owner of both WM1Z and DMP, I agree the output power of WM1Z is weaker than that of DMP's.  However, DMP improvements over WM1Z and TA-ZH1ES are a whole lot more than marginal.  DMP beats those two by the massive sound stage and reproduction of micro details.


I may be mistaken but would amping the WM1Z improve performance considerably?


----------



## pdL389

efftee said:


> I may be mistaken but would amping the WM1Z improve performance considerably?


I will let the community here chime in on this.  From my perspective, the considerable improvement would be a different DAC, say AKM 4497EQ coupled with more amping. Not to take it off topic, but Astell&Kern SP2000 with AKM 4499EQ does beat WM1Z on S-Master in sound stage and micro details as it has more powerful DAC altogether.  Personally, SP2K's sound stage alone is closer to DMP, but lacks the power to sound "full-bodied" if compared to DMP.  DMP sits in a different league, and it is sonically superior to any smaller DAPs given the amount of components and engineering around them.  Some enthusiasts on WM1Z forum are putting efforts to make WM1Z sound like DMP by altering WM1Z firmware.  I've tried them but in the end flashed my WM1Z back to the stock firmware to enjoy its original "intimate" sound signature.


----------



## MrWalkman

pdL389 said:


> Some enthusiasts on WM1Z forum are putting efforts to make WM1Z sound like DMP by altering WM1Z firmware.



It's indeed not as effective as I'd like in achieving that goal, but I'm not out of ideas yet.


----------



## efftee

pdL389 said:


> I will let the community here chime in on this.  From my perspective, the considerable improvement would be a different DAC, say AKM 4497EQ coupled with more amping. Not to take it off topic, but Astell&Kern SP2000 with AKM 4499EQ does beat WM1Z on S-Master in sound stage and micro details as it has more powerful DAC altogether.  Personally, SP2K's sound stage alone is closer to DMP, but lacks the power to sound "full-bodied" if compared to DMP.  DMP sits in a different league, and it is sonically superior to any smaller DAPs given the amount of components and engineering around them.  Some enthusiasts on WM1Z forum are putting efforts to make WM1Z sound like DMP by altering WM1Z firmware.  I've tried them but in the end flashed my WM1Z back to the stock firmware to enjoy its original "intimate" sound signature.


I have the Z1. But I don’t compare that with the WM1Z or SP2K, just like I wouldn’t pit the Z1 against a Rossini -- there’s a time and place for each. Staying on the WM1Z, a portable; the challenge is on milking everything it’s got in the smallest possible package. Plugging a DAC/AMP would just turn it into a source, which there exists a competent few I can think of at half the weight. And if the aim was the AKM sound, what then are we hanging onto a WM1Z? It doesn’t make the WM1Z better, a DAC/AMP would just change it altogether.


----------



## pdL389

efftee said:


> ... what then are we hanging onto a WM1Z? It doesn’t make the WM1Z better.....


Agree! And selling mine soon. I only have this strange attachment to Dignis Patina Artisan case.  Lol


----------



## Vitaly2017

pdL389 said:


> I will let the community here chime in on this.  From my perspective, the considerable improvement would be a different DAC, say AKM 4497EQ coupled with more amping. Not to take it off topic, but Astell&Kern SP2000 with AKM 4499EQ does beat WM1Z on S-Master in sound stage and micro details as it has more powerful DAC altogether.  Personally, SP2K's sound stage alone is closer to DMP, but lacks the power to sound "full-bodied" if compared to DMP.  DMP sits in a different league, and it is sonically superior to any smaller DAPs given the amount of components and engineering around them.  Some enthusiasts on WM1Z forum are putting efforts to make WM1Z sound like DMP by altering WM1Z firmware.  I've tried them but in the end flashed my WM1Z back to the stock firmware to enjoy its original "intimate" sound signature.



Sony is the only brand who has the R&D and resources to build uniquely legendary devices what Sony offered us with wm1z was something out of this world back when it was released, today pretty much only the aka sp 2k gold is the only contender to beat 1z and again its debatable because some may prefer the more organic and authentic sound of 1z or some may prefer the vast and expansive soundstage of aka gold. Yet both devices on a very high level and the pinnacle of what we today have on the market. Aka gold is definitely the new king of portable.

Rest assured the 1z successor will be so good it will aka another 5 years to get to its level lol.

The best example for this is Dmp-Z1 this is Sony's invention and many will try copying it with more affordable offerings. And dmp will be here for a very long time untill a new breakthrough concept comes out.





MrWalkman said:


> It's indeed not as effective as I'd like in achieving that goal, but I'm not out of ideas yet.




You need wm1z plus Kimber kable plus ierz1r in order to fine tune the wm1z as you are looking for the ability to hear all the frequencies and nuances. Not many gear on the market does offer the frequency coverage of the ierz1r plus its a sony heaven pairing match.  If you had this setup you would be able to fine tune the fw.
Things that 1z needs to be improved are the soundstage, some sharpness in details but it will be hard to do as you dont want to lose the 1z's authentic warmth and organicity.


----------



## Vamp898

gerelmx1986 said:


> When i demoed the DMP in berlin with my IER-m7 was instantly wowed nu the sound.
> I’ve scrapped the Z5 and better save dor a DMP before the sognature series gets discontinued
> 
> i have from the series
> MDR- and IER-Z1R as well as WM1A and as aside the 4BA IER-M7


You will be wowed by the WM1Z too, I'm pretty sure.


----------



## Vamp898 (Sep 4, 2021)

pdL389 said:


> As the owner of both WM1Z and DMP, I agree the output power of WM1Z is weaker than that of DMP's.  However, DMP improvements over WM1Z and TA-ZH1ES are a whole lot more than marginal.  DMP beats those two by the massive sound stage and reproduction of micro details.


It's not me saying that there is only a marginal to no difference, it's the guys who develop and build that at Sony. They claim it in the linked sources.

I tested the DMP-Z1 several times and I personally think that the biggest difference in sound is caused by the knowledge that it costs 9000€.

But I only tested it with the MDR-1AM2, MDR-Z7M2, MDR-Z1R and the XBA-Z5. I will test it with the IER-M9 and the IER-Z1R as soon as I receive the IER-Z1R, but after comparing with 4 headphones, I don't expect a big change.

There is a difference to the WM1Z, but it's not like a super obvious big difference. It's there and you can spot it, but the difference is marginal.

It's about the same difference the WM1Z does have to the TA-ZH1ES

But the TA-ZH1ES is 4.4kg stationary brick which needs a power outlet. The DMP-Z1 is 2kg lighter(!), portable and a player while having more output power. That's it's main feature over the TA-ZH1ES, not the sound.

Again, according to Sony but I had the exact same findings when testing it. I could not experience massive changes in sound stage or micro details.

Maybe those are only there with the IER-Z1R, but I doubt it. But I will do intensive tests as I did last time. But even the Sony employees at the Sony store told me that they were not able to hear an difference.

I will receive the IER-Z1R in the second half of this month, let's see


----------



## pdL389 (Sep 4, 2021)

Vamp898 said:


> It's not me saying that there is only a marginal to no difference, it's the guys who develop and build that at Sony. They claim it in the linked sources.


Thanks for providing the sources.  Following the developers' article: https://www.sony.jp/feature/products/181101/?s_pid=jp_fsl_dmp_feature_dmp

all I was able to learn from it that DMP was engineered to be superior to the rest of the signature line devices developed.  I was not able to find any stated references to DMP  being "marginal" improvement over WM1Z.

Below are the excerpts from the article translated *in blue:

そのほか、電源周りで苦心したことがありましたら教えてください。
松崎：*電源回路と、電気（ノイズ）を逃がすグラウンド（アース）のつなぎも試行錯誤を繰り返したところの1つです。『DMP-Z1』は上下2枚の基板構成となっており、上の基板には電源回路があり、その隣にデジタル回路が配置されています。そしてそこからDAコンバーターを経由して、下の基板のアナログ回路に降りていって、アナログアンプで音を増幅していくということをやっているのですが、グラウンド処理を間違えると、ACアダプター駆動時にノイズが回り込んできてしまうんですよ。
*そのほか、電源周りで苦心したことがありましたら教えてください。
松崎：*電源回路と、電気（ノイズ）を逃がすグラウンド（アース）のつなぎも試行錯誤を繰り返したところの1つです。『DMP-Z1』は上下2枚の基板構成となっており、上の基板には電源回路があり、その隣にデジタル回路が配置されています。そしてそこからDAコンバーターを経由して、下の基板のアナログ回路に降りていって、アナログアンプで音を増幅していくということをやっているのですが、グラウンド処理を間違えると、ACアダプター駆動時にノイズが回り込んできてしまうんですよ。

Translation using Safari plug-in: 
Sato: If you use an analog amplifier on a board that assumes the same set size as Walkman, you can't exceed the performance of a digital amplifier. Because it's a product of this size, it means that there is a meaning to adopt an analog amplifier. Therefore, the feeling that the digital amplifier "S-Master HX" is the best option in portable players is not shaken. I'm designing it ourselves, but I realized that it's quite difficult to realize the sound quality beyond the Walkman "NW-WM1" series at that size (laughs).

Matsuzaki: Regarding the DAC we are using, we tried various products and ended up with Asahi Kasei Electronics' AK4497EQ. It is a very well-received and well-known option in the world of high-end audio, but it is a DAC that makes very clear sounds such as treble without turbidity, and the direction of sound creation matched perfectly with "DMP-Z1".

そのほかに、音質向上のためにこだわった点はありますか？​*佐藤（浩）*：アンプ基板からヘッドホンジャックにつながる線材に、KIMBER KABLEを採用しています。しかも今回はオーバーヘッドバンドヘッドホン用の太いケーブルです。これによって、Signature Seriesのヘッドホン『MDR-Z1R』などで、アンプの根元から耳元まで、まったく同じケーブルでつながることになります。こういうことができるのも、プレーヤーからヘッドホンまでをやっているソニーならではの強みだと思っています。

*佐藤（朝）*：『NW-WM1Z』を設計した時にも、この太いケーブルを使いたいって言っていましたよね。さすがにウォークマンにはそんな太いKIMBER KABLEは入らないでしょ、という事で、『NW-WM1Z』にはインイヤー用の細いKIMBER KABLEが使われています。
*佐藤（浩）*：やっと夢がかなって太いKIMBER KABLEを内蔵ケーブルとして使う事ができましたよ（笑）。
*佐藤（朝）*：そのほか、水晶発振器や、音質はんだなど、細かな所にも語り尽くせないほどのこだわりや工夫が込められています。

Translation:
Is there anything else you were particular about to improve the sound quality?

Sato (Hiroshi): KIMBER KABLE is used as the wire rod that connects the amplifier board to the headphone jack. Moreover, this time it is a thick cable for overheadband headphones. This will connect with the exact same cable from the base of the amplifier to the ear with the Signature Series headphones "MDR-Z1R". I think that being able to do this is also a unique strength of Sony, who does everything from players to headphones.

Sato: Even when you designed "NW-WM1Z", you said you wanted to use this thick cable. AS EXPECTED, SUCH A THICK KIMBER KABLE WON'T FIT IN THE WALKMAN, SO "NW-WM1Z" USES A THIN KIMBER KABLE FOR IN-EARS.

SATO (HIROSHI): MY DREAM FINALLY CAME TRUE AND I WAS ABLE TO USE THE THICK KIMBER KABLE AS A BUILT-IN CABLE (LAUGHS).

Sato: In addition, crystal oscillators and sound quality solder are filled with attention and ingenuity that can not be told in detail.


*佐藤（朝）*：『DMP-Z1』の音質検討時、1つの大きな課題になっていたのが「ボリューム」です。 そもそもウォークマンのフルデジタルアンプを搭載している機種も同じ思想に基づいて設計されているのですが、デジタル処理段では極力音量を絞らず、アナログ信号になる直前で絞ることで、情報量を削ぐことなく、良い音をユーザーに届けるという設計思想があります。

フルデジタルアンプの場合にはアンプの最終段のパルスハイトボリュームという仕組みを使い、出力されるオーディオ信号の振幅を電圧変化させていますが、今回の『DMP-Z1』ではそれに代わるボリューム制御が必要になるので、使用するボリュームデバイスの性能は非常に重要でした。

通常ですと、最近は電子ボリュームを使うのですが、電子ボリュームをヘッドホンオーディオに適した低ノイズな性能で使いこなすには高い電源が必要だったりと、バッテリー駆動による高音質がコンセプトな『DMP-Z1』にそぐわないところがあります。さまざまな選択肢を検討した結果、この製品にはアナログボリュームが良いだろうという結論に達しました。

*佐藤（浩）*：ボリュームは音声信号が直接通る部品ですから、その役割は大変重要なものとなります。今回、『DMP-Z1』のために、いくつものボリューム部品を比較試聴したのですが、ボリュームによってここまで音質に差が出るのかと、とても驚かされました。そうしてさまざまなアナログボリュームを試していく中で、選ばれたのが、オーディオマニアの間で名機と評されている、アルプス電気の「RK501」。その音質は、圧倒的なものでした。

Translation:
Sato: When considering the sound quality of "DMP-Z1", one major problem was "volume". In the first place, the model equipped with Walkman's full digital amplifier is also designed based on the same concept, but in the digital processing stage, the volume is not squeezed as much as possible, and by narrowing it down just before becoming an analog signal, it is good without cutting down the amount of information. There is a design concept of delivering sound to users.

In the case of a full digital amplifier, the pulse height volume of the last stage of the amplifier is used to change the amplitude of the output audio signal voltage, but this "DMP-Z1" requires alternative volume control. So the performance of the volume device used was very important.

Normally, electronic volumes are used these days, but "DMP-Z" is based on the concept of high sound quality due to battery power supply is required to master electronic volumes with low noise performance suitable for headphone audio. There are places that are not suitable for 1'. After examining various options, I came to the conclusion that analog volume would be good for this product.

Sato (Hiroshi): Volume is a part where the voice signal passes directly, so its role is very important. This time, I compared and listened to a number of volume parts for "DMP-Z1", but I was very surprised that the sound quality would differ so far depending on the volume. While trying various analog volumes, Alps Electric's "RK501", which is regarded as a masterpiece among audiophiles, was chosen. The sound quality was overwhelming.



Vamp898 said:


> But I only tested it with the MDR-1AM2, MDR-Z7M2, MDR-Z1R and the XBA-Z5. I will test it with the IER-M9 and the IER-Z1R as soon as I receive the IER-Z1R, but after comparing with 4 headphones, I don't expect a big change.



 IER-Z1R do provide higher fidelity.



Vamp898 said:


> There is a difference to the WM1Z, but it's not like a super obvious big difference. It's there and you can spot it, but the difference is marginal.
> 
> It's about the same difference the WM1Z does have to the TA-ZH1ES



There is difference in auditioning the DMP when you own it.


----------



## cukis350

Can anyone help?  I’ve tried to use the USB DAC function on the Z1 but first, it does not recognize my M1 IPad 12.9 Pro but the chord Mojo does.  Next I tried the Z1 with the iPhone 12 Pro and it does recognize it but no sounds come out, same thing when I tried with my MacBook Pro.  On the DAC function screen, the inputs meters does not show any signal coming in.  Is there anything else I should be checking on the Z1 itself to make the DAC function to work?


----------



## pdL389

cukis350 said:


> Can anyone help?  I’ve tried to use the USB DAC function on the Z1 but first, it does not recognize my M1 IPad 12.9 Pro but the chord Mojo does.  Next I tried the Z1 with the iPhone 12 Pro and it does recognize it but no sounds come out, same thing when I tried with my MacBook Pro.  On the DAC function screen, the inputs meters does not show any signal coming in.  Is there anything else I should be checking on the Z1 itself to make the DAC function to work?



This video from Hifi Insider can be helpful:


----------



## Vamp898 (Sep 4, 2021)

pdL389 said:


> Thanks for providing the sources.  Following the developers' article: https://www.sony.jp/feature/products/181101/?s_pid=jp_fsl_dmp_feature_dmp
> 
> all I was able to learn from it that DMP was engineered to be superior to the rest of the signature line devices developed.  I was not able to find any stated references to DMP  being "marginal" improvement over WM1Z.
> 
> ...


I have to recheck the sources, maybe it was at a other interview (they gave meetings with owners and lots of others stuff).

But what I meant was that the difference between the WM1Z and TA-ZH1ES is marginal and the difference between the TA-ZH1ES and the DMP-Z1 pretty much non existing.

But



> all I was able to learn from it that DMP was engineered to be superior to the rest of the signature line devices developed



I could not find that, all I could find was



> However, due to size limitations, the TA-ZH1ES is unable to provide the large output power needed to play headphones with high impedance.
> So we thought that if we could give a stationary-class product like the TA-ZH1ES a clean battery power supply and no external factors, like a Walkman, we could create a product that would allow all customers to easily enjoy the potential of [high impedance] headphones. That's what I thought.


It was not designed to succeed the TA-ZH1ES sound quality, the TA-ZH1ES would have been even bigger if it would have provided higher output.

The DMP-Z1 could be way smaller then the TA-ZH1ES because it would not have to deal with an unclean power source. That is why it is a player and not a DAC/AMP. They had the include the player to reduce external factors.

The whole idea behind the DMP-Z1 is an TA-ZH1ES with higher power output and


> You can take a stationary-class sound to bed


So if you have very high impedance headphones, yes, the DMP-Z1 is better.

But with an MDR-Z1R, IER-Z1R or other Sony Headphones (that you use with Low Gain anyway), the DMP-Z1 does not improve the sound quality over the TA-ZH1ES



> There is difference in auditioning the DMP when you own it.


That is what I said. Knowing that you payed 9000€ makes the sound instantly better


----------



## eastshine

cukis350 said:


> Can anyone help?  I’ve tried to use the USB DAC function on the Z1 but first, it does not recognize my M1 IPad 12.9 Pro but the chord Mojo does.  Next I tried the Z1 with the iPhone 12 Pro and it does recognize it but no sounds come out, same thing when I tried with my MacBook Pro.  On the DAC function screen, the inputs meters does not show any signal coming in.  Is there anything else I should be checking on the Z1 itself to make the DAC function to work?


I am also thinking about buying mac mini m1 as a source machine, but can't I only recognize dmp-z1 on my iPad? Don't you recognize it in normal macos? Or I wonder if it is not recognized only by m1 mac.


----------



## pdL389

eastshine said:


> I am also thinking about buying mac mini m1 as a source machine, but can't I only recognize dmp-z1 on my iPad? Don't you recognize it in normal macos? Or I wonder if it is not recognized only by m1 mac.


In order to use a Mac as the source, you need to install Sony Hi-Res player: https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/downloads/00016444


----------



## eastshine

pdL389 said:


> In order to use a Mac as the source, you need to install Sony Hi-Res player: https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/downloads/00016444


Do I have to install that Sony Hi-Res player without working in Audirvana, JRiver, or Hqplayer?


----------



## coolhand

eastshine said:


> Do I have to install that Sony Hi-Res player without working in Audirvana, JRiver, or Hqplayer?


Absolutely not, you can use ANY source running ANY software which conforms to the USB audio out transport protocol (the DMP-Z1 itself can also operate in this manner as a USB digital audio output source) ... the list of devices and software (or just straight system audio output) which I have used with the DMP-Z1 is exhaustive and I've experienced flawless operation in all instances, including Mac OS machines and numerous phones.


----------



## eastshine

coolhand said:


> Absolutely not, you can use ANY source running ANY software which conforms to the USB audio out transport protocol (the DMP-Z1 itself can also operate in this manner as a USB digital audio output source) ... the list of devices and software (or just straight system audio output) which I have used with the DMP-Z1 is exhaustive and I've experienced flawless operation in all instances, including Mac OS machines and numerous phones.


Aha is it the same in M1 architecture? Then what is the best player to use with dmp-z1 on Mac?


----------



## gerelmx1986

I found WM1Z rather the same as my wm1A sonic wise. There were few tracks that showed something special. But DMP is another beast.

plus wm1Z is very weak compared to more modern DAP that offer 1W output power. Hell and DMP has 2x micro SD slot i can finally my whole 1.43TB music library inonedevice


----------



## coolhand

eastshine said:


> Aha is it the same in M1 architecture? Then what is the best player to use with dmp-z1 on Mac?


Your choice of source is _*completely*_ arbitrary, so long as it can support the USB audio out transport protocol the DMP-Z1 will decode the stream data within its defined ability.

As for best player, that becomes quite subjective... it really depends what features are most important to you and specifically what kind of use scenarios you have in mind.
Do you require remote control playback ability, intend to use VST plug-ins, require specific streaming accessibility, want to try CPU intensive upsampling etc, etc...??

There are a plethora of options, including the most obvious being its fine inbuilt player and simply loading content into the DMP and/or its available microSD slots and using it completely independent from externally connected or blue-toothed devices... (including an dc power supply, as it's self powered by batteries)

Arguably using it this manner may achieve the highest expression of its fidelity by virtue of totally eliminating any potential interference from EMI-RFI or any other ground-borne noise etc..


----------



## Down4wotever

Friends, and with all due respect this being a DMP thread, realty is most of us here wish for one, but still great to share the audiophile journey because that is what it is all about. I'm a proud owner of a WM1Z, Japanese tourist version back in the day and to be fair she's versatile. Ok a few threads back there was criticism for Mr Walkman's mods, ladies, gentlemen, allow me to disagree, thank you Mr Walkman I have not felt the need to pull the trigger yet, thanks to you good Sir. I'm using custom inears, Westone, ES80s another under the radar winner, pair these with the right cable for your taste, you'll be mightily surprised.


----------



## MrWalkman

Down4wotever said:


> Friends, and with all due respect this being a DMP thread, realty is most of us here wish for one, but still great to share the audiophile journey because that is what it is all about. I'm a proud owner of a WM1Z, Japanese tourist version back in the day and to be fair she's versatile. Ok a few threads back there was criticism for Mr Walkman's mods, ladies, gentlemen, allow me to disagree, thank you Mr Walkman I have not felt the need to pull the trigger yet, thanks to you good Sir. I'm using custom inears, Westone, ES80s another under the radar winner, pair these with the right cable for your taste, you'll be mightily surprised.



Thank you very much for your support!

It's fine, to each their own, of course. I just managed to get the 1A even more close to the 1Z sound - the closest ever, and also running the WM1A/Z firmware on all other devices like the A30/40/50 and ZX300 players. It's been a very interesting journey for these devices, starting with someone telling me that I could never understand some kind of "first generation" mods for these devices, aka "tuning mods".

While Sony advertises their achieved sound quality in devices like WM1Z/DMP-Z1 as a result of using certain cabling inside them, certain resistors and capacitors, or copper casing, most of the sound signature is achieved due to very good sound processing done in these players. Of course, the hardware matters, but in this case, not nearly as much as their brilliant sound processing. Just try the latest Midnight v2 WM1A/Z-firmware-based on a device like the 2016 A30, and you'll understand what I'm saying.

Unfortunately I don't own a DMP-Z1 - otherwise there might be something for it too. This would imply testing on the actual device, at my own risk, so there's no chance of doing something without actually owning it, which is not gonna happen anytime soon. Nonetheless, from other users' feedback, the DMP-Z1 is amazing on its own.

Hopefully there aren't people who are missing the chance to improve their WM1A/Z player's sound just because they have something with me or anything like that - and if there are people having something with me, prepare to be "blacklisted" for what you posted right now 

Cheers!


----------



## roofus

coolhand said:


> I recommend that you employ the unbalanced output utilising a 3.5, to dual RCA cable for this purpose.
> In such a manner the DMP-Z1 operates _superlatively_ as a Source/DAC/Preamp, and I've yet to find any shortcomings when connecting to a multitude of devices in my studio.
> 
> It is NOT specifically beneficial to employ the 'balanced' output into dual XLR's (and may result in ground noise issues & potential damage to the DMP if the closely spaced Pentaconn plug pinout & soldering is not carefully undertaken).
> ...


Very useful reply! Thank You. Explains a lot!


----------



## cukis350

so does anyone have an m1 iPad pro or macbook pro to test the USB function on the DMP-Z1 for me?  I just want to be sure that my brand new Z1 is not having a faulty UBS Dac function.  Any help resolve this issue is extremely appreciated.  Like i stated earlier, i've tried iphone 12 max pro, 2018 macbook pro and latest 12.9" ipad pro and none of them works with the Z1 as sources for USB Dac function.


----------



## pdL389

cukis350 said:


> so does anyone have an m1 iPad pro or macbook pro to test the USB function on the DMP-Z1 for me?  I just want to be sure that my brand new Z1 is not having a faulty UBS Dac function.  Any help resolve this issue is extremely appreciated.  Like i stated earlier, i've tried iphone 12 max pro, 2018 macbook pro and latest 12.9" ipad pro and none of them works with the Z1 as sources for USB Dac function.


I use 2019 iPad Pro and 2020 Macbook Pro (not M1 versions) and both work fine with DMP.  Have you tried different USB-C cables?


----------



## Calfredo826

Anybody know how to fix this sorting issue on the DMP? Some artist are sorted by their last name. My LPGT has them all sorted properly.


----------



## Wikinaut

Calfredo826 said:


> Anybody know how to fix this sorting issue on the DMP? Some artist are sorted by their last name. My LPGT has them all sorted properly.


In the past, this has been trial and error for me by editing the music file metadata until it works as I want it to.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Vamp898 said:


> I have to recheck the sources, maybe it was at a other interview (they gave meetings with owners and lots of others stuff).
> 
> But what I meant was that the difference between the WM1Z and TA-ZH1ES is marginal and the difference between the TA-ZH1ES and the DMP-Z1 pretty much non existing.
> 
> ...


I sampled the DMP-Z1 for many hours in Japan and the difference vs the TA felt small at best. It certainly has more power to drive higher impedance headphones. But considering I used the MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R, I was thinking the 1Z and TA are enough for music. I don’t play my music loud, so now I can see why I felt the DMP and TA were neck and neck in sound quality. These articles you provided stated all that info. Glad I bought these over the DMP. I don’t think the DMP will ever drop below 500,000 yen. I have the money for it, but I mostly use my portable DAPS and use the TA 3 times a week. So I probably won’t get maximum value in time when I use it


----------



## cat3600

Has anyone compared the sound quality of the Shanling M30 vs DMP? Since I predominantly use streaming I was thinking of selling the DMP to get something like the M30, TIA


----------



## efftee

Just wondering, anyone DAC out the Z1 with a Hugo2 or TT? Any significant changes, improvements?


----------



## cat3600

efftee said:


> Just wondering, anyone DAC out the Z1 with a Hugo2 or TT? Any significant changes, improvements?


I use the USB from the DMP to my Devialet Expert 440 Pro Dual's USB input, the sound is extremely clean and organic. Volume control on the DMP gets disabled, it just acts as a player/source. I do want to try the unbalanced headphone output to an analog input of my amp but I don't have a cable yet. I would be curious of the difference in sound.


----------



## cat3600

Also the problem is the DMP has no remote capability so you have to physically get up and change track when you have it connected to the home audio, its a bit of pain for sure!


----------



## MrWalkman (Sep 9, 2021)

cat3600 said:


> Also the problem is the DMP has no remote capability so you have to physically get up and change track when you have it connected to the home audio, its a bit of pain for sure!



It has, but you need to change its region to J, or E, for example, to see the remote option.

https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWDestTool



cat3600 said:


> I use the USB from the DMP to my Devialet Expert 440 Pro Dual's USB input, the sound is extremely clean and organic. Volume control on the DMP gets disabled, it just acts as a player/source. I do want to try the unbalanced headphone output to an analog input of my amp but I don't have a cable yet. I would be curious of the difference in sound.



When using the USB output, the sound signature most probably doesn't apply to the sound. The DMP should only send the audio data as is.


----------



## Gamerlingual

MrWalkman said:


> It has, but you need to change its region to J, or E, for example, to see the remote option.
> 
> https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWDestTool
> 
> ...


Confirmed. I tried the remote at E-Earphone in Tokyo and it worked like a charm


----------



## efftee

cat3600 said:


> I use the USB from the DMP to my Devialet Expert 440 Pro Dual's USB input, the sound is extremely clean and organic. Volume control on the DMP gets disabled, it just acts as a player/source. I do want to try the unbalanced headphone output to an analog input of my amp but I don't have a cable yet. I would be curious of the difference in sound.


Yeah the Expert 440 is clearly a notch or six up from the DMP. In the case of the Hugo2 or TT2, which we can safely agree is not at the same level as the Expert 440, does it make sense?


----------



## coolhand

efftee said:


> Yeah the Expert 440 is clearly a notch or six up from the DMP. In the case of the Hugo2 or TT2, which we can safely agree is not at the same level as the Expert 440, does it make sense?


Nope, none whatsoever....


----------



## Rob49 (Sep 9, 2021)

Gamerlingual said:


> I sampled the DMP-Z1 for many hours in Japan and the difference vs the TA felt small at best. It certainly has more power to drive higher impedance headphones. But considering I used the MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R, I was thinking the 1Z and TA are enough for music. I don’t play my music loud, so now I can see why I felt the DMP and TA were neck and neck in sound quality. These articles you provided stated all that info. Glad I bought these over the DMP. I don’t think the DMP will ever drop below 500,000 yen. I have the money for it, but I mostly use my portable DAPS and use the TA 3 times a week. So I probably won’t get maximum value in time when I use it



You’ve posted this view before, I.e. the comparisons & everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I totally disagree with you.

Without double checking, I purchased my TA back in 2018 & my DMP-Z1 just over 5 weeks ago. I haven’t used my TA since then. They are not even remotely close. The DMP-Z1 is like nothing I’ve ever heard before. Totally unique & in my opinion nothing compares to it.

At first, I.e. the first few hours, I was actually a little disappointed, or I should say I couldn’t understand the amazing positive comments from owners, then I tried the DSD Remastering & OMG !!! This is the magic component of the DMP-Z1 ( & as of yet, I still haven’t tried the different DSP filters, because I’m so happy with the sound as it is. - at some point I will experiment with those. )

For those ”many hours” in a store environment, did you try the DSD Remastering ? If you did & felt it was “neck & neck” with the TA then I’m sorry but I don’t understand how anyone could possibly could come to that conclusion ???

To me, the DMP-Z1 is like having multi channel SACD’s / DVD-A’s in your headphones & I always wondered if that could have be implemented or ever imagined & I have to say the DMP-Z1 achieves that. If you think about it, multi channel discs are DSD & I believe that Sony have created this with their DSD Remastering.

It’s in the separation & resolution that you hear. I’ve never ever heard musical separation like this with headphone listening. You can hear EVERYTHING. Every note as a place & you can actually focus & separate each note & musical instrument.

Talking of musical instruments, I’ve never heard musical tone like this before. It’s the same for vocals. Again, think back to the resolution of a multi channel SACD - DVD-A disc & the first time you heard a vocal come out of your speakers. The DMP-Z1 is replicating that. ( With vocals & musical instruments. )

Imagine, everything you’ve ever listened to ( & I’ve been listening to music, collecting music for nearly 50 years ) thinking that you’d heard music as it was, or what you believed it was…..then hear the DMP-Z1……& realise you’ve been totally duped & that you’ve never ever heard music correctly…..the strum of a string….the hit of a drum skin….every musical instrument, note & voice you’ve ever listened to, finally being heard as it should be. If it wasn’t for the genius of the Sony people, we would still be oblivious to the true & real sound of music. We really would.

No, I’m so happy to confirm that the DMP-Z1 is not “neck & neck” with anything. It truly is UNIQUE !


----------



## Calfredo826

Rob49 said:


> You’ve posted this view before, I.e. the comparisons & everyone is entitled their opinion, but I totally disagree with you.
> 
> Without double checking, I purchased my TA back in 2018 & my DMP-Z1 just over 5 weeks ago. I haven’t used my TA since then. They are not even remotely close. The DMP-Z1 is like nothing I’ve ever heard before. Totally unique & in my opinion nothing compares to it.
> 
> ...


I agree. My DMP is the most unique and best sounding gear I own.


----------



## cat3600

MrWalkman said:


> It has, but you need to change its region to J, or E, for example, to see the remote option.
> 
> https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWDestTool
> 
> ...


Wow thanks had no idea about the remote, correct USB output adds no sound signature as the internal DAC of the DMP is disabled, I bet the awesome internal design of the DMP contributes to it being a super clean/neutral source.


----------



## cat3600

efftee said:


> Yeah the Expert 440 is clearly a notch or six up from the DMP. In the case of the Hugo2 or TT2, which we can safely agree is not at the same level as the Expert 440, does it make sense?


Not sure about that as the DAC implementation of the DMP is world class, also the Expert 440 as good as it sounds with its internal DAC, people in the Devialet Chat Forum have really high end external DACs feeding into the Devialet and say they get even better sound. I'm not sure how is it possible or the logic behind it as the Devialet converts every analog or digital input signal into a digital signal, this hobby is strange and some people have too much money. 

Since I bought the Devialet I sold all my other audio gear so don't have another DAC to try and not sure if I want to spend another $5k to $10k to find out, though I get tempted every other day I use Roon wirelessly to the Devialet the sound is amazing could it be better who knows!


----------



## Vitaly2017

cat3600 said:


> Not sure about that as the DAC implementation of the DMP is world class, also the Expert 440 as good as it sounds with its internal DAC, people in the Devialet Chat Forum have really high end external DACs feeding into the Devialet and say they get even better sound. I'm not sure how is it possible or the logic behind it as the Devialet converts every analog or digital input signal into a digital signal, this hobby is strange and some people have too much money.
> 
> Since I bought the Devialet I sold all my other audio gear so don't have another DAC to try and not sure if I want to spend another $5k to $10k to find out, though I get tempted every other day I use Roon wirelessly to the Devialet the sound is amazing could it be better who knows!



It can always be better indefinitely lol just your wallet wont 😛🤣


----------



## cat3600

@Whitigir I sent you a PM sometime back asking the diff in sound between the DMP and Shanling M30 since you had both, please let me your thoughts as I do more streaming and was wondering if I should sell the DMP and get the M30, would love to get your feedback.


----------



## Vitaly2017

cat3600 said:


> @Whitigir I sent you a PM sometime back asking the diff in sound between the DMP and Shanling M30 since you had both, please let me your thoughts as I do more streaming and was wondering if I should sell the DMP and get the M30, would love to get your feedback.



You can feed dmp via usb you know and take your laptop or a dap as streaming feeder. You will have very high quality sound. I recommend using a dap


----------



## cat3600

Vitaly2017 said:


> It can always be better indefinitely lol just your wallet wont 😛🤣


Lol keep trying to win the lottery but no dice, the significant other watches me like a hawk with how much I am spending on this hobby, single life decisions are long gone out of the window


----------



## efftee

cat3600 said:


> Not sure about that as the DAC implementation of the DMP is world class, also the Expert 440 as good as it sounds with its internal DAC, people in the Devialet Chat Forum have really high end external DACs feeding into the Devialet and say they get even better sound. I'm not sure how is it possible or the logic behind it as the Devialet converts every analog or digital input signal into a digital signal, this hobby is strange and some people have too much money.
> 
> Since I bought the Devialet I sold all my other audio gear so don't have another DAC to try and not sure if I want to spend another $5k to $10k to find out, though I get tempted every other day I use Roon wirelessly to the Devialet the sound is amazing could it be better who knows!


So you use the DMP exclusively as a source to the Expert 440 as DAC?


----------



## cat3600

Vitaly2017 said:


> You can feed dmp via usb you know and take your laptop or a dap as streaming feeder. You will have very high quality sound. I recommend using a dap


I use USB Audio Player Pro from my Android phone it works well, thinking of getting a DAP. was just trying to get some feedback on the Shanling M30 pretty cool device and all-in-one solution I am so reluctant to sell the DMP, I am a huge Sony fan as well


----------



## cat3600

efftee said:


> So you use the DMP exclusively as a source to the Expert 440 as DAC?


Yes and the USB implementation within the DMP will only allow you to do that as far as I know


----------



## Vitaly2017

cat3600 said:


> I use USB Audio Player Pro from my Android phone it works well, thinking of getting a DAP. was just trying to get some feedback on the Shanling M30 pretty cool device and all-in-one solution I am so reluctant to sell the DMP, I am a huge Sony fan as well



If you love sony bro never sale your dmp. Throw that nasty thoughts out of your head lol you will regret it later!

M30 is a nice device great alternative but I dont think if you own dmp its worth going to the other device just by thinking cause your neighbor's grass looks greener then yours lo lo lo

In fact Dmp is a better machine in many ways. Just get a quality dap to be used as a streamer and source, dont need a flagship get something in the mid tiers and reliable software ui.

You will be more happy this way in my opinion


----------



## MrWalkman

Knowing the DMP-Z1's specs, I'm not sure it's worth it to use it only as an USB audio transport.

At least try to use the 3.5 port or something, as line out. Otherwise, you're not taking advantage of the sound signature, and you only have a $8k plus audio transport device.


----------



## pdL389

Rob49 said:


> You’ve posted this view before, I.e. the comparisons & everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I totally disagree with you.
> 
> Without double checking, I purchased my TA back in 2018 & my DMP-Z1 just over 5 weeks ago. I haven’t used my TA since then. They are not even remotely close. The DMP-Z1 is like nothing I’ve ever heard before. Totally unique & in my opinion nothing compares to it.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with Rob49. I made 2 trips to Audio Advice store in Raleigh, NC where they have a well "burnt-in" TA on display.  I auditioned it with my personal gear: Sony IER-Z1R and Hifiman HE1000V2 as well as Meze Empyreans loaned by Audio Advice. Neither time I was impressed with so much praised TA and worth mentioning that I spent 4 hours with TA on my last trip there.  
TA is not even remotely close to DMP sounding a lot less detailed, and if I were to use only one word to describe the sound of TA in comparison to DMP, that would be "muddy" 😉
Yes, I too use DMP sampling filter and it is magical!!


----------



## cat3600

Gamerlingual said:


> Confirmed. I tried the remote at E-Earphone in Tokyo and it worked like a charm


Sorry am a bit confused once I change the region to J or E and the remote option is shown, do I need to buy a Bluetooth a Sony one or some other make


----------



## Vitaly2017

cat3600 said:


> Yes and the USB implementation within the DMP will only allow you to do that as far as I know



Yea this way you are bypassing Dmp dac and simply feeding the 440 and using full dac and amp of it. You can try 4.4mm from dmp to 440 dual 3 pin xlr if it has that input.

3.5mm out of dmp wont be optimal as balanced has all the goodies and even sony said it 😛
Still you can use it if you prefer Se over balanced.

I recommend kimber kable interconnects.


----------



## MrWalkman

cat3600 said:


> Sorry am a bit confused once I change the region to J or E and the remote option is shown, do I need to buy a Bluetooth a Sony one or some other make



Yes, you need the RMT-NWS20

https://www.sony.com.tw/en/electronics/walkman-digital-music-players-accessories/rmt-nws20


----------



## marvin3003

pdL389 said:


> Totally agree with Rob49. I made 2 trips to Audio Advice store in Raleigh, NC where they have a well "burnt-in" TA on display.  I auditioned it with my personal gear: Sony IER-Z1R and Hifiman HE1000V2 as well as Meze Empyreans loaned by Audio Advice. Neither time I was impressed with so much praised TA and worth mentioning that I spent 4 hours with TA on my last trip there.
> TA is not even remotely close to DMP sounding a lot less detailed, and if I were to use only one word to describe the sound of TA in comparison to DMP, that would be "muddy" 😉
> Yes, I too use DMP sampling filter and it is magical!!


Did you only use the TA with the 3.5mm output?


----------



## pdL389

marvin3003 said:


> Did you only use the TA with the 3.5mm output?


Used balanced with my personal gear: Sony IER-Z1R and Hifiman HE1000V2, but single-ended on Meze Empyryan as a loaner.


----------



## cukis350

MrWalkman said:


> It has, but you need to change its region to J, or E, for example, to see the remote option.
> 
> https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWDestTool
> 
> ...


forgive my ignorance, but how to you change the regional code on the DMP-Z1 to utilize the Sony bluetooth remote?  I looked at the link you provided but the DMP-Z1 is not listed.  Any help is greatly appreciate it.


----------



## cat3600

MrWalkman said:


> Yes, you need the RMT-NWS20
> 
> https://www.sony.com.tw/en/electronics/walkman-digital-music-players-accessories/rmt-nws20


Super thanks 😊


----------



## MrWalkman

cukis350 said:


> forgive my ignorance, but how to you change the regional code on the DMP-Z1 to utilize the Sony bluetooth remote?  I looked at the link you provided but the DMP-Z1 is not listed.  Any help is greatly appreciate it.



It works the same for the Z1 as well.


----------



## cat3600

Vitaly2017 said:


> If you love sony bro never sale your dmp. Throw that nasty thoughts out of your head lol you will regret it later!
> 
> M30 is a nice device great alternative but I dont think if you own dmp its worth going to the other device just by thinking cause your neighbor's grass looks greener then yours lo lo lo
> 
> ...


Any suggestions for a DAP which doesn't break the bank, Most likely will go this route. I have this strange connection with the DMP even though I should be listening to it more than I currently am. It's a lot of money tied if it just sits there most days.


----------



## meomap

cat3600 said:


> Any suggestions for a DAP which doesn't break the bank, Most likely will go this route. I have this strange connection with the DMP even though I should be listening to it more than I currently am. It's a lot of money tied if it just sits there most days.


DX300


----------



## meomap

IBASSO DX300


----------



## Gamerlingual

I’m a bit surprised to see one or two peeps wanting to sell the DMP. I do think it’s one of the neatest pieces of audio on the market


----------



## Vamp898 (Sep 10, 2021)

Gamerlingual said:


> I’m a bit surprised to see one or two peeps wanting to sell the DMP. I do think it’s one of the neatest pieces of audio on the market


Well yes and no.

It is complicated.

The DMP-Z1 is an awesome piece of technology but not an 9000€ piece of technology.

It is not made in Japan, it is made with off the shelve components. It's... It breaks my heart to say that but it is just not that special.

There are sub 2000€ DAP who produce higher output with better SNR

And I am pretty sure that in a blind test, >=98% of Audiophiles wouldn't even notice the difference. Since THX entered the Amp market,  below 800€ Android dap can have the same power, SNR and linearity that was few years ago reserved for >2000€ desktop amps

And this trend is going strong. Most DAPs these days are a matter of taste and not a matter of quality, the same is true for headphones.

Sennheiser did have good reasons to sell its Headphones business and Sony did have good reasons to pull pretty much every Hi-Res audio product from the European market.

Time is changing and there are 50€ headphones on the market now that are better in pretty much every aspect than 500€ Headphones from 6-7 years ago.

So rather sell your DMP-Z1 now for a good price before nobody wants it anymore because there is some shelling song Wong ding which feels for 1000€ for the same specs


----------



## riverground

Vamp898 said:


> So rather sell your DMP-Z1 now for a good price before *nobody wants it anymore* because there is some shelling song Wong ding which feels for 1000€ for the same specs


Waiting for this… lol

The only time I’ll be able to afford one.


----------



## cat3600

I just picked up a Fiio M11 Plus Ltd in SS quite a nice piece of gear, I couldn't find the Ibasso DX300 in a store close to me and I'm impatient. I am streaming Tidal Master to the DMP via USB from the Fiio but every song is showing PCM 48kHz on the DMP.

Is that a limitation of the Tidal app running Android 10 on the Fiio? Tried a few setting on the Fiio nothing changed. Do I need to use USB Audio Player Pro on the Fiio or I'm doing something wrong.


----------



## cat3600

Beautiful kit especially in SS


----------



## Gamerlingual

Vamp898 said:


> Well yes and no.
> 
> It is complicated.
> 
> ...


I don't have the DMP. I'm interested in it, but for less than 400,000 yen. The differences against the TA after using the MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R were negligible at best. And I tested the TA and DMP at E-Earphone for over 2 hours, overall sampling the DMP-Z1 for over 10 hours.


----------



## Damz87

Gamerlingual said:


> I don't have the DMP. I'm interested in it, but for less than 400,000 yen. The differences against the TA after using the MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R were negligible at best. And I tested the TA and DMP at E-Earphone for over 2 hours, overall sampling the DMP-Z1 for over 10 hours.


If you can’t hear the difference, then no point buying it. Save your money 🤷‍♂️


----------



## audionewbi

The volume control on DMP-Z1, the ability to fine-tune the sound, and still not lose any dynamic range, I can't say I have ever experienced that on a DAP.


----------



## Calfredo826

audionewbi said:


> The volume control on DMP-Z1, the ability to fine-tune the sound, and still not lose any dynamic range, I can't say I have ever experienced that on a DAP.


That was the first thing that grabbed my attention when I bought mine.


----------



## coolhand

Gamerlingual said:


> I don't have the DMP. I'm interested in it, but for less than 400,000 yen. The differences against the TA after using the MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R were negligible at best.


This reminds me of the dude who walks into the Lamborghini dealership, tells them he can't afford one and leaves... but then keeps returning to tell them how his Subaru gets him from A to B just as well....😆


----------



## Wikinaut

Been listening to my DMP using the new Dan Clark Stealth. You can easily tell the Stealth require a lot more power, but the bass is much less boomy than the MDR-Z1R. I only have about 50 hours on the Stealth so far. Not sure if it's fully broken in yet. However, it's already my preferred headphone for the DMP. Highly recommended!


----------



## Gamerlingual

coolhand said:


> This reminds me of the dude who walks into the Lamborghini dealership, tells them he can't afford one and leaves... but then keeps returning to tell them how his Subaru gets him from A to B just as well....😆


I can afford it. That's the difference. I like its elegance as an heirloom and doubling up as a DAP, it's a nice piece of machinery. I just have my set limits and can control my finances. Like getting the 1A for $650 was a lucky deal for me


----------



## efftee

Vamp898 said:


> Well yes and no.
> 
> It is complicated.
> 
> ...


Are you referring to mere numerical specs or the sound that those €2,000 DAPs produce? Based on semantics that better is subjective, and special = different/unique, my personal experiences have been such that $3-4-even 5K DAP/DACs have not 'better-ed' the DMP-Z1, categorically speaking. The great ones may have 'better' reference sound or 'better' musicality or [insert preference or bias here], but overall 'better'? Nothing in its price range I’ve heard, I’m afraid.

How much is the LP6? Titanium model.
The HM1000? Gold (4x PCM1704).

These are coming very close to the DMP-Z1. If you are willing to consign a player to be the source, there’s the TT2+M Scaler, which in my opinion is not 'better', just different, for 20-25% more. Dave+M Scaler? Might as well spring for the Bartok, which in my opinion, is arguably only borderline 'better' at double the price. And none of these are (trans)portable or play unplugged.

The DMP-Z1 sits neatly in between the portable and desktop options, at a (very) reasonable price point, in today’s context of $5K DAPs, $6K IEMS (and $5K cables!), producing music for any headphones or IEMS. I’d called that different/unique. And thus, special.

Of course, that’s my 2 cents. And I may also be deaf cuz I can’t hear the Apple Lossless difference…


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Diminishing returns is always a factor in this hobby and you’re certainly paying a lot for that extra.
I demoed a ton of setups back when I was able to go to e-earphone (please open up again Japan) and I just always preferred how Sony’s sound.

Now this is strictly my opinion.  But the WM1A + the walkman mods from mr.walkman + IER-Z1R does sound very similar to the DMP.  Close close close but not quite there.  And that’s up to you if you want to spend the money.  The TAZ sounds significantly warmer as well while the DMP has a much cooler sound profile, and as much as I love the TAZ, the DMP has this precision with its imaging.  Plus the fact that it’s “portable” is incredible.

When it comes to headphones, the WM1A can’t touch the imaging and soundstage that the DMP can do.
And perhaps I’m going nuts but the SA-Z1 sounds more precise with the imaging on the DMP then the WM1A.


----------



## audionewbi

Because of Mr Walkman, wm1a has been my most used dap.


----------



## efftee

I have to give this Mr Walkman mod a spin. Does it work on the WM1Z too? And is the firmware 'reversible'?


----------



## audionewbi

efftee said:


> I have to give this Mr Walkman mod a spin. Does it work on the WM1Z too? And is the firmware 'reversible'?


He is working on wm1z , but aim of his mod is to reduce the gap between wm1z and 1a.
There are 1z mods to enable DSEE AI which is found on DMP.


----------



## MrWalkman

efftee said:


> I have to give this Mr Walkman mod a spin. Does it work on the WM1Z too? And is the firmware 'reversible'?



Hey, yes, it works for the WM1Z too, and it's reversible.


----------



## Rob49

Gamerlingual said:


> The differences against the TA after using the MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R were negligible at best.



Are you sure of your location ???


----------



## Gamerlingual

Rob49 said:


> Are you sure of your location ???


Positive. And I’ve posted pictures of my progress at the time. @Redcarmoose for example, saw me go through my journey. He knows I kept trying but just didn’t convince me to spend that much. It makes the headphones sound way louder as advertised. So yea, if I jack up the volume, sure everything will greatly improve. But I don’t like to listen to music loudly and all my cans don’t require lots of power to drive them


----------



## Redcarmoose (Sep 11, 2021)

cosplayerkyo said:


> Diminishing returns is always a factor in this hobby and you’re certainly paying a lot for that extra.
> I demoed a ton of setups back when I was able to go to e-earphone (please open up again Japan) and I just always preferred how Sony’s sound.
> 
> Now this is strictly my opinion.  But the WM1A + the walkman mods from mr.walkman + IER-Z1R does sound very similar to the DMP.  Close close close but not quite there.  And that’s up to you if you want to spend the money.  The TAZ sounds significantly warmer as well while the DMP has a much cooler sound profile, and as much as I love the TAZ, the DMP has this precision with its imaging.  Plus the fact that it’s “portable” is incredible.
> ...


Honestly, I think it’s his volume level. You would be surprised if you found out how low he listens at. But he’s no neophyte to music having taken piano lessons his whole life. Obviously that doesn’t mean he can hear the nuances between the DMP-Z1 and the TA/1Z/1A. But he is trying to validate a purchase. It’s maybe that small 10%? I don’t know, we all get fooled in audio at some point and for some reason. I told him just to buy it and take it home that that is where he could discover the (magic) difference. He could always sell it again if it didn’t put out? Then that would be the price you pay to learn, but I think he would keep it!


----------



## Rob49 (Sep 11, 2021)

Gamerlingual said:


> Positive. And I’ve posted pictures of my progress at the time. @Redcarmoose for example, saw me go through my journey. He knows I kept trying but just didn’t convince me to spend that much. It makes the headphones sound way louder as advertised. So yea, if I jack up the volume, sure everything will greatly improve. But I don’t like to listen to music loudly and all my cans don’t require lots of power to drive them



The beauty of the DMP is that you can control the volume level & there’s no need to crank it up. You really can’t go beyond ( in clock terms ) 5 to - between 10 & 5 to, is more than enough volume. ( I just increased the volume for the first time, to midday so to speak & it is way way too loud. ) I think controlling volume also depends on the quality of a recording & the music genre you’re listening to. Just adjusting slightly more or less, as required.

You said you’d listened with the Z1R’s. I don’t find them to be a good match. Ironically, I love my much cheaper Sony MDR-1AM2’s. So with everything, ( even with the DMP ) you have to find the right match for your tastes.


----------



## efftee

MrWalkman said:


> Hey, yes, it works for the WM1Z too, and it's reversible.


Sorry I’ve not been following, but the WM1Z mod closes its gap with the DMP-Z1?


----------



## MrWalkman

efftee said:


> Sorry I’ve not been following, but the WM1Z mod closes its gap with the DMP-Z1?



The next update (hopefully coming in the following days) will do that a bit more.

Running the Z1 app would help even more with that, but as the Z1 doesn't use the S-Master, it's not really possible to make it output sound on the 1A/Z.


----------



## dasherzx

I've been listening to my newly obtained hifiman he6se from adorama with my dmp. The highs are really shrill, every percussion hit hurts my ears. I reckon its the tuning on sony devices. It sounds less piercing out of my topping nx4 (lack of power? idk). I have yet to try it on the D90/A90 stack but i reckon the sound will be similar between them. It's a shame that it doesn't pair well with all headphones. I enjoy them alot with the mdr-z1r and utopia.


----------



## cat3600

Can someone please help? Those streaming Tidal from a DAP every song master or regular is showing 48 kHz on the DMP, is this normal?


----------



## MrWalkman

cat3600 said:


> Can someone please help? Those streaming Tidal from a DAP every song master or regular is showing 48 kHz on the DMP, is this normal?



It has to do mostly with how that DAP handles Tidal.

If you'd connect the DMP-Z1 via the USB DAC function to a PC, and then in Tidal you'd select the Z1 as output, and then enable "Exclusive Mode" and disable "Passthrough MQA", then Tidal will do the first unfold of the MQA file, and you could get playback at 88.2 or 96 kHz.


----------



## cat3600

MrWalkman said:


> It has to do mostly with how that DAP handles Tidal.
> 
> If you'd connect the DMP-Z1 via the USB DAC function to a PC, and then in Tidal you'd select the Z1 as output, and then enable "Exclusive Mode" and disable "Passthrough MQA", then Tidal will do the first unfold of the MQA file, and you could get playback at 88.2 or 96 kHz.


No problem on the PC either with Tidal app or Roon everything works fine. Just got the Fiio M11+ yesterday and doesn't show 88.2 or 96 kHz on the DMP 😪


----------



## cat3600

MrWalkman said:


> It has to do mostly with how that DAP handles Tidal.


Streaming Tidal on the Fiio this is working fine, but when I connect the DMP via USB it just streams PCM 48 kHz no matter which song I play


----------



## MrWalkman (Sep 11, 2021)

cat3600 said:


> Streaming Tidal on the Fiio this is working fine, but when I connect the DMP via USB it just streams PCM 48 kHz no matter which song I play



By the DAP handling Tidal I mean if the DAP just upsamples/downsamples any audio played by other apps in general, for example.

Even if Tidal would output 192 kHz, if the DAP then just downsamples the audio to 48/44.1 kHz, then that's what you'll get via the USB output.

You could give a try to the USB Audio Player Pro app: https://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/uapp-trial

This app handles USB audio by itself, without relying on the Android system, and it plays audio via USB as it is. You can also use Tidal with this app, by logging in with your Tidal account directly in UAPP. It has MQA support, but you have to pay a little one time fee.

This is the app in the Play Store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro


----------



## cat3600

MrWalkman said:


> You could give a try to the USB Audio Player Pro app: https://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/uapp-trial


Thanks bud. I have been using it on my Android phone for a while and installed it on the Fiio last night and it's working fine streaming 88.2 or 96 or 192 kHz. I thought getting a DAP to stream Tidal would work fine with the app, guess that is not the case with the Fiio.

Just trying to find out if other with different DAPs have the same issue


----------



## MrWalkman

cat3600 said:


> Thanks bud. I have been using it on my Android phone for a while and installed it on the Fiio last night and it's working fine streaming 88.2 or 96 or 192 kHz. I thought getting a DAP to stream Tidal would work fine with the app, guess that is not the case with the Fiio.
> 
> Just trying to find out if other with different DAPs have the same issue



Not many DAPs have an underlying system which handles the audio coming from third party apps in a correct way, without upsampling or downsampling the audio.


----------



## cat3600

MrWalkman said:


> Not many DAPs have an underlying system which handles the audio coming from third party apps in a correct way, without upsampling or downsampling the audio.


Darn should have taken the DMP to a proper store which carries a few different DAPs to try instead of blindly buying the Fiio


----------



## pdL389 (Sep 13, 2021)

Rob49 said:


> The beauty of the DMP is that you can control the volume level & there’s no need to crank it up. You really can’t go beyond ( in clock terms ) 5 to - between 10 & 5 to, is more than enough volume. ( I just increased the volume for the first time, to midday so to speak & it is way way too loud. ) I think controlling volume also depends on the quality of a recording & the music genre you’re listening to. Just adjusting slightly more or less, as required.
> 
> You said you’d listened with the Z1R’s. I don’t find them to be a good match. Ironically, I love my much cheaper Sony MDR-1AM2’s. So with everything, ( even with the DMP ) you have to find the right match for your tastes.


Sony MDR-Z1R is not a good pairing with DMP indeed being too "dark" hence masking details, whereas IER-Z1R is perfect.


----------



## cat3600

Fiio released a new firmware update and im happy to say it has fixed the bit perfect issues I was having streaming to my Sony DMP-Z1. The M11 Plus is streaming perfectly from Tidal, Amazon HD Fiio Music etc. The sound is sublime, guess I'm not contemplating selling the DMP for the Shanling M30.

Anybody looking for a portable DAP for travel etc. its a formidable package and the Android 10 interface is super slick, beautiful balanced sound, punches way above its price point!


----------



## gsiu33

Vamp898 said:


> I have to recheck the sources, maybe it was at a other interview (they gave meetings with owners and lots of others stuff).
> 
> But what I meant was that the difference between the WM1Z and TA-ZH1ES is marginal and the difference between the TA-ZH1ES and the DMP-Z1 pretty much non existing.


I own WM1Z, TA-ZH1ES and DMP-Z1 have listen with MDR-Z1R and JH Layla for a few years. TA-ZH1ES has a better power and sound stage than WM1Z, yes, it is marginal better. 

But the difference between TA-ZH1ES and DMP-Z1 is definitely exist and it is not marginal. You can feel the quiet background, large sound stage, deeper bass of DMP-Z1, provided that you are run it in battery mode.


----------



## gsiu33

MrWalkman said:


> It has, but you need to change its region to J, or E, for example, to see the remote option.
> 
> https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWDestTool
> 
> ...





cat3600 said:


> Also the problem is the DMP has no remote capability so you have to physically get up and change track when you have it connected to the home audio, its a bit of pain for sure!


There is no motor build in for the volume control wheel rk501 of DMP-Z1 so there is no reason to include remote control capability in there. I am running in region J and confirm there is no remote control function.


----------



## MrWalkman

gsiu33 said:


> There is no motor build in for the volume control wheel rk501 of DMP-Z1 so there is no reason to include remote control capability in there. I am running in region J and confirm there is no remote control function.



That makes sense, though there is remote support in the Z1 firmware.

Maybe the remote option appears with other regions, like E maybe?

Someone mentioned trying the remote successfully on the Z1 I think.


----------



## gsiu33

MrWalkman said:


> Someone mentioned trying the remote successfully on the Z1 I think.


I am afraid I do not believe it. I had visited e-earphone in Tokyo and Osaka and never see a remote with DMP-Z1. May I ask the other DMP-Z1 owners if they ever try the remote RMT-NWS20 with DMP-Z1.


----------



## MrWalkman

gsiu33 said:


> I am afraid I do not believe it. I had visited e-earphone in Tokyo and Osaka and never see a remote with DMP-Z1. May I ask the other DMP-Z1 owners if they ever try the remote RMT-NWS20 with DMP-Z1.



I think they have their own remote, @Gamerlingual if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Gamerlingual

MrWalkman said:


> I think they have their own remote, @Gamerlingual if I'm not mistaken.


I brought my remote that I use with the TA and Walkman and it works


----------



## gsiu33

Gamerlingual said:


> I brought my remote that I use with the TA and Walkman and it works


are you saying that you are using the same remote for TA and the WM1x walkman?


----------



## gsiu33

gsiu33 said:


> Gamerlingual said:
> I brought my remote that I use with the TA and Walkman and it works


The remote for TA is RMT-AA250U which is using IR, that why there is a sensor just below the DSE RE. LED, the remote for WM1 series walkman is RMT-NWS20 which is using bluetooth.


----------



## newworld666

gsiu33 said:


> are you saying that you are using the same remote for TA and the WM1x walkman?



As this remote is 100% android, it use the rmt-nws20 with all my android device (FIIO M11, Hiby R6pro, A&K Kann Alpha, WM1A, Galaxy Z Fold 3) .. if DMP-Z1 accept BT remote function in some region mode (at least "J"), it should accept most of android remotes, including Sony's one. I don't understand why Sony has limited the use of remote for a few regions only.


----------



## gsiu33

newworld666 said:


> As this remote is 100% android, it use the rmt-nws20 with all my android device (FIIO M11, Hiby R6pro, A&K Kann Alpha, WM1A, Galaxy Z Fold 3) .. if DMP-Z1 accept BT remote function in some region mode (at least "J"), it should accept most of android remotes, including Sony's one. I don't understand why Sony has limited the use of remote for a few regions only.


DMP-Z1 is the same as the WM1 series walkman, running Sony os, not android. In WM1Z, you have to enable the remote control function and connect it to rmt-nws20. But in DMP-Z1, I cannot find this function. BTW, my WM1Z and DMP-Z1 both are in region J.


----------



## newworld666 (Sep 20, 2021)

gsiu33 said:


> DMP-Z1 is the same as the WM1 series walkman, running Sony os, not android. In WM1Z, you have to enable the remote control function and connect it to rmt-nws20. But in DMP-Z1, I cannot find this function. BTW, my WM1Z and DMP-Z1 both are in region J.


Ok ... you must be right.
though, even if the WM1A is not an android system, it uses an android BT remote (keyboard emulation) in region J.


----------



## Vamp898 (Sep 22, 2021)

2 days ago i received my IER-Z1R and used them with the NW-WM1Z and the TA-ZH1ES (have not rented the DMP-Z1 yet) but... i don't know...

They are extremely good, i give it to them but if they are sonically better than the MDR-Z1R? Ii don't know. I can understand that some people don't like the tuning of the MDR-Z1R (which i don't agree with) but i'd say the IER-Z1R is rather different than better.

The difference between the WM1Z and the TA-ZH1ES remained the same. The TA-ZH1ES is better than the WM1Z in every aspect but is a 4,4kg Stationary brick. But the difference between the WM1Z and the TA-ZH1ES didn't increase with the IER-Z1R, its the same difference i was able to pickup with the MDR-Z1R, IER-M9 and even the FiiO FA9.

So i have some doubts that the IER-Z1R finally reveals the hidden capabilities of the DMP-Z1 i wasn't able to hear due to the lack of headphones that could reveal them. The TA-ZH1ES pretty much sounds perfect to me.

But lets see, i call the Sony Center today and ask for another rental of the DMP-Z1 over the weekend so i can test it from Friday till Monday. But from what i heard until know i stay true to my original statement that the DMP-Z1 is not better than the TA-ZH1ES. Lets see if another rental can change my mind.



> But the difference between TA-ZH1ES and DMP-Z1 is definitely exist and it is not marginal.


The TA-ZH1ES sounds different than the DMP-Z1. If it sounded like they would be the same, than that came across wrong. The DMP-Z1 sounds like the WM1Z and TA-ZH1ES gave birth to a baby (in terms of sound signature).

But in terms of quality, there is absolutely no difference, no. Not to my experience.



> You can feel the quiet background, large sound stage, deeper bass of DMP-Z1, provided that you are run it in battery mode.



You can feel the quiet background? The Background of the WM1Z is already -109db. With what headphones are you able to hear -109db, please tell me.

Even if you would listen at 100db (the volume of a buzz saw), the Noise is still -9db.

Common, please., Don't assert that you are able to hear -9db noise when listening to music at a volume of 100db. Thats absolutely impossible, even for the best ears in existence. How are you able to feel silence anyway?

The IER-Z1R don't even isolate well enough that it would be even possible. Are you sitting in an anechoic chamber when you're listening to music? Even if you would, your body noises are already loud enough to make it absolutely impossible to pickup a difference, even if it would be audible.

This is exactly the reason why people make fun of audiophile. You are not able to hear the background with the WM1Z, no human is. The same is true for the TA-ZH1ES and the DMP-Z1. They all have the exact same background, dead silent.

And large soundstage oh please god no. A larger soundstage than the TA-ZH1ES would limit the usage of the DMP-Z1 as it would be way larger than the actual recording. I don't know where this fetish for insane and unrealistic big soundstage comes that makes it virtually impossible to listen to any music that give audible hints in what room size they play. I don't get why people buy headphones instead of 7.2 systems if they want unrealistic fake sounding soundstages.


----------



## coolhand

Well done - Top Marks & Congratulations !!
You have perfectly answered all of you own questions and repeatedly arrived at your own self-confirming conclusions multiple times, that's what I call a win-win-win... Absolutely no need to cook your goose yet again, or anybody else's for that matter... in fact you would certainly save yourself and all others enjoying their DMP-Z1 further consternation by finding something far away from this thread to beat your chest about 🤪


----------



## Vitaly2017

Vamp898 said:


> 2 days ago i received my IER-Z1R and used them with the NW-WM1Z and the TA-ZH1ES (have not rented the DMP-Z1 yet) but... i don't know...
> 
> They are extremely good, i give it to them but if they are sonically better than the MDR-Z1R? Ii don't know. I can understand that some people don't like the tuning of the MDR-Z1R (which i don't agree with) but i'd say the IER-Z1R is rather different than better.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your experience and discoveries in sound performances.
To me it seems like wm1a and Ta follows similar sound signature path. While wm1z and dmp is the ultimate signature series and offer a bolder warmer with full flagship expertise specs.

Dmp is the answer from sony to wm1z lovers they gave us an opportunity to experience beyond 1z goodness even though 1z is plenty good just no power output unfortunately.

Mdr definitely has more resolution then the small brother ierz1r yet as you pointed it right, both are stellar and offer different sound experience and both are flagships. Just mdr has some advantages being a headphone and iers advantage is mids produced by an extremely precise ba. Soundstage is definitely huge on mdr and its bigger then on IER...

But about hiss, there is some on 1z and 1a so I do hear it, with sensitive iems only not with ierz1r.

🤠🐅🐾🌴🌿
Tiger Ears


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## sanguineburrito

Vamp898 said:


> 2 days ago i received my IER-Z1R and used them with the NW-WM1Z and the TA-ZH1ES (have not rented the DMP-Z1 yet) but... i don't know...
> 
> They are extremely good, i give it to them but if they are sonically better than the MDR-Z1R? Ii don't know. I can understand that some people don't like the tuning of the MDR-Z1R (which i don't agree with) but i'd say the IER-Z1R is rather different than better.
> 
> ...


You sure put a lot of time and effort in the DMP for someone who concludes it is marginally better than WM1z.


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## cosplayerkyo

Hmmm, to me the WM1Z and the TAZ sounds very similar in terms of how they sound and almost how they perform.  I do give the edge to the TAZ for a slightly bigger soundstage (this was mainly testing with the IER-Z1R)

I've mentioned it before but while I do think the IER-Z1R's sound best on the DMP, it's not that drastic of a jump compared to using it on the WM1Z or the TAZ.  The bass sounds tighter and everything sounds more accurate but this is a huge price jump for some improvements here and there.  I also am one of the few that do not like pairing the DMP with the MDR.  Just sounds a bit harsh to me.  However with the Empyreans, its a massive massive difference in showing me the difference between the DMP and TAZ.

In use with the Empyreans, asides from the warm sound profile on the TAZ compared to the cooler sound profile on the DMP, the DMP imaging feels much precise and accurate (not sure if I'm using the correct words here).  Its like I can listen to a song and its more pinpoint on where a piano might be all the way to the left while a guitar is a little bit to the left of that while someone is banging on the drums to the right.  Everything just feels like it has more position and it sounds clearer on the DMP.  I think that's what makes the soundstage sound "bigger" even though its not really that much bigger (to my ears anyways).

I'm really curious to test out some more headphones and IEMs with the DMP whenever international travel happens again.


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## Wikinaut

I've been enjoying the MDR-Z1R with the DMP-Z1 for the past few months. I appreciate that it is a closed back design, as I take advantage of the portability of the DMP-Z1 to listen in different locations, including in bed. I love the mid- and upper range of the MDR, but the bass can be boomy for some frequencies.

Since I love the closed-back design for my use case, I recently got the Dan Clark Stealth as an alternative. So far, I'm really liking these headphones, but I haven't logged as many hours on it as I have on the MDR. The Stealth has two benefits out of the gate: first, the bass is tight and not distracting anymore; second, the Stealth is foldable and comes with a carrying case. That latter is a big deal since I like taking advantage of the portability of the DMP. However, I need to turn the volume knob a lot higher to get an equivalent listening volume. I suspect this will impact how long the DMP lasts on a single charge, though I can't confirm that yet.

Just for contrast, when comparing the Stealth on my SPL phonitor xe w/ DAC, the Focal Utopia blew them away in clarity and openess. Just wanted to state it since the Utopia and Stealth have the same price point. The Stealth is a great headphone, but it cannot compete against an open back. I have not compared the Utopia to the Stealth on the DMP-Z1. Finally, nothing I stated should be interpreted as a comparison between the SPL and the DMP.


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## Rob49

coolhand said:


> Well done - Top Marks & Congratulations !!
> You have perfectly answered all of you own questions and repeatedly arrived at your own self-confirming conclusions multiple times, that's what I call a win-win-win... Absolutely no need to cook your goose yet again, or anybody else's for that matter... in fact you would certainly save yourself and all others enjoying their DMP-Z1 further consternation by finding something far away from this thread to beat your chest about 🤪



I’d say a touch of N.P.D. ( Possibly ?? )


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## Vamp898

coolhand said:


> Well done - Top Marks & Congratulations !!
> You have perfectly answered all of you own questions and repeatedly arrived at your own self-confirming conclusions multiple times, that's what I call a win-win-win... Absolutely no need to cook your goose yet again, or anybody else's for that matter... in fact you would certainly save yourself and all others enjoying their DMP-Z1 further consternation by finding something far away from this thread to beat your chest about 🤪


Huh? The reason to buy a DMP-Z1 (as it is advertised) is to have a portable TA-ZH1ES. And its a total success.

It is not a big difference to the TA-ZH1ES, no but that is because the TA-ZH1ES is close to perfection. There is not that much room to really beat it. But its a 4,4kg desktop amp.

The DMP-Z1 delivers at minimum the same quality in a portable fashion. It is less then half the weight, runs on batteries, comes with a carrying case. You can have the best possible audio quality always with you. There is absolutely no reason to not enjoy it and it is an improvement over the NW-WM1Z in every aspect.

Why is it such a big deal that a portable player ""only"" delivers the same sound quality as an desktop amp and does not heavily increase on it. Why does the DMP-Z1 have to be better than the TA-ZH1ES to be enjoyable?

Its a pretty much perfect audio device, but its not the only one out there. Sony is not the ultimate and only audio company. If you're into the Sony Sound Signature, its the best you can get. Isn't that enough?


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## Rob49

coolhand said:


> Well done - Top Marks & Congratulations !!
> You have perfectly answered all of you own questions and repeatedly arrived at your own self-confirming conclusions multiple times, that's what I call a win-win-win... Absolutely no need to cook your goose yet again, or anybody else's for that matter... in fact you would certainly save yourself and all others enjoying their DMP-Z1 further consternation by finding something far away from this thread to beat your chest about 🤪





Rob49 said:


> I’d say a touch of N.P.D. ( Possibly ?? )



Confirmation.


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## Redcarmoose (Sep 25, 2021)

Looks like the DMP-Z1 is at CanJam SoCal 2021!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can...ead-september-25-26-2021.959896/post-16581326


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## terminaut

Redcarmoose said:


> Looks like the DMP-Z1 is at the show!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can...ead-september-25-26-2021.959896/post-16581326



Listening to that was a financial mistake. It blew me away. It's on a whole 'nother level over my WM1Z and I am now figuring out how to convince the wife I NEED one!


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## Redcarmoose

That’s the great part, for me...I’m in no danger of buying one! 


terminaut said:


> Listening to that was a financial mistake. It blew me away. It's on a whole 'nother level over my WM1Z and I am now figuring out how to convince the wife I NEED one!


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## meomap

terminaut said:


> Listening to that was a financial mistake. It blew me away. It's on a whole 'nother level over my WM1Z and I am now figuring out how to convince the wife I NEED one!


Don't convince.
Just buy it and be done.....


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## Redcarmoose

It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.


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## meomap

Redcarmoose said:


> It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.


There you go.
What's done is done.
Sorry, cannot return product....


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## terminaut

Redcarmoose said:


> It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.



Hahaha that's true.  It's just that I wouldn't know how to tell my daughter we're not going to be able to send her to college after all. 

Man - ignorance was bliss.


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## Redcarmoose (Sep 25, 2021)

terminaut said:


> Hahaha that's true.  It's just that I wouldn't know how to tell my daughter we're not going to be able to send her to college after all.
> 
> Man - ignorance was bliss.


Well, the only thing I ever purchased with that was the Woo 5 LE. I told my wife you only live once, and it went way smoother than I thought? Though it maybe could be trouble depending on the details for some?

Still it was dramatic? My Wife mainly buys sensible things, necessities.


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## cosplayerkyo

terminaut said:


> Listening to that was a financial mistake. It blew me away. It's on a whole 'nother level over my WM1Z and I am now figuring out how to convince the wife I NEED one!


Joiiiin us.
Its so good, it made me stop caring about other DACs and setups.  Technically this saves you money in the future!


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## terminaut

cosplayerkyo said:


> Joiiiin us.
> Its so good, it made me stop caring about other DACs and setups.  Technically this saves you money in the future!


That's the way I'm going to look at it.


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## Redcarmoose

Ya, it’s a way to SAVE money!


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## terminaut

Redcarmoose said:


> Ya, it’s a way to SAVE money!



😂


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## Damz87

cosplayerkyo said:


> Joiiiin us.
> Its so good, it made me stop caring about other DACs and setups.  Technically this saves you money in the future!


This was what I told myself when I bought it. It didn’t end up being true, but at least it helped me justify the purchase 😂


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## Hinomotocho (Sep 25, 2021)

terminaut said:


> Hahaha that's true.  It's just that I wouldn't know how to tell my daughter we're not going to be able to send her to college after all.
> 
> Man - ignorance was bliss.


Go for it, you have our full support.
At least impress your wife with a budget:
Take the value of what you would otherwise probably spend on an amp/dac and deduct that from the DMP-Z1 price, then minus the value of your birthday and Christmas present for the year or 2 ahead, make a sacrifice with alcohol or coffee etc, cancel the gym membership and workout at home, sell a few things and that should knock a fair bit off, then sweet-talk, beg or do whatever it takes to cushion the balance.


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## terminaut

Hinomotocho said:


> Go for it, we're all behind you.
> At least impress your wife with a budget:
> Take the value of what you would otherwise probably spend on an amp/dac and deduct that from the DMP-Z1 price, then minus the value of your birthday and Christmas present for the year or 2 ahead, make a sacrifice with alcohol or coffee etc, cancel the gym membership and workout at home, sell a few things and that should knock a fair bit off, then sweet-talk, beg or do whatever it takes to cushion the balance.


Hahaha I like that plan.


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## Hinomotocho (Sep 25, 2021)

terminaut said:


> Hahaha I like that plan.


One I have had to execute 2 or 3 times this past year, but that wasn't anywhere near the DMP-Z1 - you might have to dig deeper.


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## Wikinaut

Redcarmoose said:


> Well, the only thing I ever purchased with that was the Woo 5 LE. I told my wife you only live once, and it went way smoother than I thought? Though it maybe could be trouble depending on the details for some?
> 
> Still it was dramatic? My Wife mainly buys sensible things, necessities.


See if you can get the floor model. It will save you a lot of money and you will still be able to enjoy one of the most amazing DAPs available!


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## riverground

Redcarmoose said:


> It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.


My life motto


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## jonathan c

Redcarmoose said:


> Still it was dramatic? My Wife mainly buys sensible things, necessities.


If one is a Head-Fier, the _next_ purchase (amp, cable, hp…) is a necessity…


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## Vamp898

So after 3 days of testing and comparing the WM1Z, TA-ZH1ES, DMP-Z1 and one further player (not planned) with the MDR-Z1R, IER-Z1R, IER-M9 and FiiO FA9, i came to the following conclusion.

In terms of sound quality, no difference. The most sensitive IEM i own is the FA9 and i put it to 16Ω mode but even in that mode, no noise at all. Neither from the WM1Z, nor from the TA-ZH1ES or DMP-Z1.

So maybe with other IEMs that are even more sensitive, there is a audible noise. But with non of the IEM, Earphone or Headphone i own, i could hear a noise floor.

I even created a testfile in Audacity and in Low-Gain (i only use Low-Gain because with my headphone, there is no need for High-Gain) at full volume, just dead silence. Nothing. There is just no sound.

I could notice noises when changing the volume (like a clicking noise), but not when i didn't interact with the player.

But, as said, the most sensitive IEM i have is the FA9 with 16Ω and 113db/mW. And i use that one in 32Ω mode all the time anyway.

The IER-M9 is 20Ω, the IER-Z1R is 40Ω and the MDR-Z1R is 64Ω, and all of them are less sensitive (around 100db/mw).

There is a difference in the overall presentation of the sound coming from the TA-ZH1ES going to the DMP-Z1, but its absolutely a matter of taste and in no way a matter of quality. I personally liked the DMP-Z1 with the MDR-Z1R better, but in combination with the IER-Z1R, the highs were sometimes to sharp (more tame with the WM1Z).

The same is with the IER-M9. With the WM1Z i can turn the volume much louder before the highs get painful than with the DMP-Z1, but the same is true for the TA-ZH1ES.

But i noticed something when i tested the DMP-Z1, there is something in the sound signature that sounded like i already knew it. But not from the WM1Z or the Tazzy. I thought it might be some AKM speicific sound so i tested with the FiiO M11 Plus LTD which uses the same DAC but nope, it sounds totally different.

But then, then(!) it hit me. I asked my girlfriend to lend me her (my old) ZX507 and compared the DMP-Z1 to it. And the similarity i noticed is related to that player.

Some aspects from the sound of the DMP-Z1 sound closer to the ZX507 than the WM1Z. I thought that the WM1Z and the ZX507 use the same technology, but i was wrong.

I mixed it up with the ZX300. The ZX300 is like a cheaper version of the WM1Z (with less output power, using FTCAP for Balanced only and so on).

The ZX507 uses the FTCAP2 that were also used in the DMP-Z1. I assume this is what caused me to notice the similarity. Of course the ZX507 can't be compared to the DMP-Z1 (With its 1500mW the DMP-Z1 can drive headphones the 200mW ZX507 can only dream of) as they don't have the identical sound signature. But they do sound common in a way the DMP-Z1 and WM1Z don't.

But somehow the ZX507 sounds closer to the DMP-Z1 than the WM1Z imho. I highly assume the successor of the WM1Z will use the FTCAP2 too, so, the theory, the WM1Z successor should sound closer to the DMP-Z1 than the current WM1Z.

So does the DMP-Z1 sound better than the TA-ZH1ES? I'd say no. Not with the headphones i tested(!). Different in some aspects, but not different in a way where i'd say one sounds better than the other and not different enough anyway. Some people here act like they sound totally different, like different players. There is a difference, but it is marginal and depending on your headphones, there is almost non. With the FiiO FA9, i had such a hard time to hear any difference at all because the FA9 is very mid focused and there is almost no difference in the mids between those.

If you consider the difference between the FiiO M11 Plus LTD and the TA-ZH1ES 100%, than the difference between the TA-ZH1ES to the DMP-Z1 is maybe 1-3%. Its not like "wow, that sounds different!"

And with non of the songs i tested, i had a larger soundstage. I tested some songs where the soundstage is very important but even with those, no difference.

And again, that does not mean i think someone should not get the DMP-Z1. First of all, there is no alternative (and no, the 250mW WM1Z is in no way an alternative to the 1500mW DMP-Z1). At least not from Sony. So if you want an portable Desktop Amp, there is only the DMP-Z1, of course get it. Maybe you're a commuter and you listen the most of the time at your work place, of course get the DMP-Z1. You have Headphones that need as much power as possible? Of course, what other option do you have?

I personally don't need the DMP-Z1 because i listen mostly at home (TA-ZH1ES + MDR/IER-Z1R) or on the go (WM1Z + IER-M9). The only reason to get the DMP-Z1 would be to replace the TA-ZH1ES and for me personally, that is not an upgrade.

I can only assume that people who test the DMP-Z1 are suprised by the power output and experience the louder output volume as better sound. Like with some people who think that High-Gain sounds better than Low-Gain. I don't know but there was absolutely no "wow, thats different" effect for me, not at all.

I tried to find as many songs as possible that highlight as many aspects i want to listen to. This is the list i used for testing. I used a capacitor studio microphone with a >1" gold plated membrane on an PreSonus Studio 26c Audio Interface  to level the players out with a 1kHz test sound.

I used the TA-ZH1ES on Low-Gain at -30.0dB as reference. So they were all at the same volume the TA-ZH1ES produces at -30db with the MDR-Z1R. So the sound was slightly louder with the IER-Z1R and the IER-M9.

There were two exceptions.

With Paddy Fahey's i went to -15db because that song is (in its DSD Version), pretty quiet.

Also with the FiiO FA9 i used a much lower volume (around -40db) but didn't level them out because i was to lazy and i threw the FA9 just for fun in anyway.

My personal summary: If you have a use for the DMP-Z1s unique feature (1500mW, Portable, go get it. If you only want it because you want to upgrade your sound quality and not because it is portable, you might be disappointed.

But that is my personal opinion. Maybe you listen to different songs and it makes a big difference with them or you use other headphones and so on. This is just my personal experience.


SongArtistQualityWhere Shade Once WasAgallochFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bit

Thaw4ikaiFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitPaddy Fahey'sAdam Agee & Jon SousaDSD 2.8 MHzL'île Des MortsAlcestFLAC 44.1 kHz / 24 bit↑↓←→BBABBABYMETALFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitStarlightBABYMETALFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitShala-Li-Li-SummerARForest feat. nayutaFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitChase the Stars (Taishi Remix)Hiroshi Okubo feat. SAKFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitAvatarFibelFLAC 48 kHz / 24 bitOdysseeFibelFLAC 48 kHz / 24 bitUfoFibelFLAC 48 kHz / 24 bit

MykonosFleet FoxesFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitMountainsHans ZimmerFLAC 44.1 kHz / 24 bitFalling For YousheFLAC 44.1 kHz / 24 bitSunset VistasheFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitRealitysheFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitTraveling by NightsheFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitSilfur-RefurSólstafirFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitAkkeriSólstafirFLAC 48 kHz / 24 bitKaKaltes Herz (Nackt II Version)Subway to SallyFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitFrustrationTatsuya MaruyamaFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bit

MODELTatsuya MaruyamaFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitFrustration2Tatsuya MaruyamaFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitEMOTIONTatsuya MaruyamaFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitWAVETatsuya Maruyama, no-caFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitNEWTatsuya Maruyama, no-caFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitWATER AND SUMMERTatsuya MaruyamaFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitSTYLETatsuya MaruyamaFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitBig TVWhite LiesFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bit虹アイナ・ジ・エンドFLAC 48 kHz / 24 bit静的情夜アイナ・ジ・エンドFLAC 48 kHz / 24 bit

リライト (2016 Version)ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATIONFLAC 96 kHz / 24 bitRe:Re: (2016 Version)ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATIONFLAC 96 kHz / 24 bit真夜中と真昼の夢 (2016 Version)ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATIONFLAC 96 kHz / 24 bitスピードと摩擦amazarashiFLAC 48 kHz / 24 bit夕立旅立ちamazarashiFLAC 48 kHz / 24 bitメッセンジャーサイダーガールFLAC 96 kHz / 24 bit至心酩酊存在証明サイダーガールFLAC 96 kHz / 24 bitSTACKiNGBiSHFLAC 48 kHz / 24 bitflame of hopeMarfonicaFLAC 96 kHz / 24 bitﾗﾋﾞﾘﾝｽMONDO GROSSOFLAC 88.2 kHz / 24 bit

ユメの喫茶店ユメガタリFLAC 44.1 kHz / 16 bitUntitled worldReoNaFLAC 96 kHz / 24 bitLet it DieReoNaFLAC 96 kHz / 24 bit


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## Rob49 (Sep 27, 2021)

Narc’s come back time & time again…….I really did try to get to the end……but lost interest at “the give a dog a bone” point.……anyway…..

Had my DMP-Z1 two months today. Clocked up 220 hrs the first month & now on 355 hrs. That’s listening, not burn in hours.

Every day it amazes me, that bit more. I’ve listened to albums I’ve listened to a lifetime & it’s like listening to a new recording. So amazed & surprised by musical instrumentation that I’d never heard before, or I should say, correctly before. Listening throughout today, the word fullness came to mind. It’s a totally full soundstage, that’s absolutely enveloping even the smallest musical detail is to the fore. ( Yesterday, there was a moment, not for the first time, that a musical instrument travelled from my left ear, had a journey through my brain, to my right ear. It really felt like that ! ) There’s no longer anything you’re not aware of & I’ve lost count of my shock & exclaim of, “I was never aware of that”. “It never ever sounded like this before”.

I’m also enjoying listening to albums, I didn’t really play that much, or think that much of & having a new perception of them.

I look forward to the next month of listening & onwards. ( I haven’t listened to my TA-ZH1ES, not once, during these past two months. I’m sure I will at some point, I’m sure, but it doesn’t compare. It’s not even close. As I’ve said before, the DMP-Z1 is truly unique. There’s nothing else like it.


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## riverground

Vamp898 said:


> So after 3 days of testing and comparing the WM1Z, TA-ZH1ES, DMP-Z1 and one further player (not planned) with the MDR-Z1R, IER-Z1R, IER-M9 and FiiO FA9, i came to the following conclusion.
> 
> In terms of sound quality, no difference. The most sensitive IEM i own is the FA9 and i put it to 16Ω mode but even in that mode, no noise at all. Neither from the WM1Z, nor from the TA-ZH1ES or DMP-Z1.
> 
> ...


Those song choices… we can get along really well. 😂


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## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Narc’s come back time & time again…….I really did try to get to the end……but lost interest at “the give a dog a bone” point.……anyway…..
> 
> Had my DMP-Z1 two months today. Clocked up 220 hrs the first month & now on 355 hrs. That’s listening, not burn in hours.
> 
> ...


You dont use the micro sd slots? I already almost need a 2TB micro sd card + 1TB or


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## Rob49 (Sep 28, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> You dont use the micro sd slots? I already almost need a 2TB micro sd card + 1TB or



Oh ! That’s one of the great things I found. Initially, I placed in my SD cards & it didn’t sound right, but then I used DSD Remastering & that was where the magic began I just ripped all my music & let the DSD Remastering do it’s thing. I can’t ever imagine needing to use the added space, with SD cards ?


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## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Oh ! That’s one of the great things I found. Initially, I placed in my SD cards & it didn’t sound right, but then I used DSD Remastering & that was where the magic begin. I just ripped all my music & let the DSD Remastering do it’s thing. I can’t ever imagine needing to use the added space, with SD cards ?


Well i  have 10% of my library as Hi-res and the rest 16/44.1 FLAC in 1.44TB. Thats like 62100 tracks or 3529 album. Solely the hi-res part is 570GB and the CD flac part is 900GB


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## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Well i  have 10% of my library as Hi-res and the rest 16/44.1 FLAC in 1.44TB. Thats like 62100 tracks or 3529 album. Solely the hi-res part is 570GB and the CD flac part is 900GB



As I said, I don’t necessarily see a need for actual Hi Res files, FLAC, e.t.c. because the DSD Remastering is so good. Obviously, I don’t know what other owners do, but personally it’s a surprise to me, an unexpected one. I could fit nearly another 13.000 songs on with the space……unfortunately, I won’t live another 40 years to do that !


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## cat3600

Can someone pls tell me the DMP DC plug size I did a search but the thread is too long I know I saw it somewhere. I am trying to buy an external power supply and was looking HDPlex which is always sold out. 

I am looking at https://ferrum.audio/hypsos/ which only come with a 
5.5x2.5mm and a 5.5x2.1mm DC plug will it fit the DMP?

TIA


----------



## Wikinaut

cat3600 said:


> Can someone pls tell me the DMP DC plug size I did a search but the thread is too long I know I saw it somewhere. I am trying to buy an external power supply and was looking HDPlex which is always sold out.
> 
> I am looking at https://ferrum.audio/hypsos/ which only come with a
> 5.5x2.5mm and a 5.5x2.1mm DC plug will it fit the DMP?
> ...


A while back, I was told this power supply had a compatible plug, but I never bought it: Futurebatt New AC Adapter Charger for Sony Vaio Series 19.5V 90W Power Supply Cord Laptop Notebook Power Cable


----------



## Vitaly2017 (Sep 29, 2021)

Well my dream have come true and I finally got a good listen to the best in the world Dmp-z1 player.
Oh mine what a wonderful opportunity to enjoy the masterpiece from sony in such a portable and well constructed device where everything was tough out to be the best of what sony can put everything in together to present us the signature series sound tuning from sony.

Huge thanks to my best buddy @pdL389 it is thanks to him I am a blessed Tiger who finally knows what is a Dmp-z1 wilderness of a beast.

I will only say one phrase then you ask as many questions you want lmao.

So what is Dmp-Z1 in the eyes and ears of mr.Tiger?

DMP-Z1 is the perfection of wm1z. Yep Dmp-z1 is what I consider wm1z should be at its best . It's the absolute perfect sound that one seeks from 1z. For who ever who own 1z and wants more out of it get dmp-z1 and it will complete all your craves and desires you been always dreaming to get out of 1z.

Is money a factor play at should you get it or not? That only you can decide.
In my opinion I think if you already have 1z and seeking for the ultimate then money has no importance here as you simply need IT. ITS THE BEST YOU CAN HAVE that money can buy specially for real sony fan boys 😛

🐅🐾


----------



## coolhand

Vitaly2017 said:


> In my opinion I think if you already have 1z and seeking for the ultimate then money has no importance here as you simply need IT. ITS THE BEST YOU CAN HAVE that money can buy specially for real sony fan boys 😛
> 
> 🐅🐾


True dat, but can it suck a soccer ball through a straw ? Just asking for a _friend_.....


----------



## cat3600 (Sep 30, 2021)

Hey peeps I picked up a Meze Rai Penta yesterday. Was totally set on getting the
IER-Z1R but after going back and forth listening for 2 hours I couldn't pull the trigger on the Sony. IER-Z1R was not comfortable and I found the Rai Penta more relaxed also the comfort level was outstanding. Having the MDR-Z1R I did want the IER-Z1R maybe another time. 

All the listening was done with the DMP


----------



## gsiu33

pdL389 said:


> Sony MDR-Z1R is not a good pairing with DMP indeed being too "dark" hence masking details, whereas IER-Z1R is perfect.


I am having MDR-Z1R with DMP-Z1 for 2 years and don’t feel it is too dark and can hear a lot of details, especially with jazz and classical music. May be this is the only one headphone I have with DMP-Z1 and no comparison with others.

Anyone try Focal Clear Mg with DMP-Z1? This is one of the headphone I would like to try with DMP-Z1.


----------



## Wikinaut

gsiu33 said:


> I am having MDR-Z1R with DMP-Z1 for 2 years and don’t feel it is too dark and can hear a lot of details, especially with jazz and classical music. May be this is the only one headphone I have with DMP-Z1 and no comparison with others.
> 
> Anyone try Focal Clear Mg with DMP-Z1? This is one of the headphone I would like to try with DMP-Z1.



My issue with the MDR-Z1R was the boominess at the low-end. I've switch to a Dan Clark Stealth and I'm very happy with it. However, I always enjoyed the mid and highs on the MDR.


----------



## cat3600

gsiu33 said:


> I am having MDR-Z1R with DMP-Z1 for 2 years and don’t feel it is too dark and can hear a lot of details, especially with jazz and classical music. May be this is the only one headphone I have with DMP-Z1 and no comparison with others.
> 
> Anyone try Focal Clear Mg with DMP-Z1? This is one of the headphone I would like to try with DMP-Z1.


I tried the Focal Stellia few days back when I was picking up the Rai Penta IEM. Guy at the store got me the Stellia just to try as I wanted to try a Focal but a closed back. I was not impressed with the build quality sure looks nice but every damn part was creaking, I listened to it for maybe 5 minutes so I can't say much about the sound quality.

I read all the stellar reviews online about the looks and build quality and was surprised at the creaking so I asked him and he said most people buy Focal because of the name but there are much better headphones and don't believe all the reviews.

I also tried the Dan Clark Stealth beautiful build, sound I guess was not bad but the DMP-Z1 could not drive it even with high gain engaged. So I asked the guy what's going on, he said when they first got the Dan Clark Stealth unit they thought it was broken or something wrong as none of their amps in the store could drive it. Then they got the second demo pair and same issue. Bottom line he said don't believe the specs they are extremely difficult to drive with any amp. Very nice to look at and build quality was super and also very light too bad they are so difficult to drive.


----------



## cat3600

Wikinaut said:


> My issue with the MDR-Z1R was the boominess at the low-end. I've switch to a Dan Clark Stealth and I'm very happy with it. However, I always enjoyed the mid and highs on the MDR.


You are having no issues driving the Stealth?! I could not get much output with high gain and volume at 2 to 3 o'clock position, normally I rarely go past 11 o'clock on the DMP with other headphones


----------



## Wikinaut

cat3600 said:


> You are having no issues driving the Stealth?! I could not get much output with high gain and volume at 2 to 3 o'clock position, normally I rarely go past 11 o'clock on the DMP with other headphones



IIRC, I pointed it out in a previous post that I do need to turn the volume up more, but there is enough headroom left for my taste.


----------



## riverground

cat3600 said:


> I tried the Focal Stellia few days back when I was picking up the Rai Penta IEM. Guy at the store got me the Stellia just to try as I wanted to try a Focal but a closed back. I was not impressed with the build quality sure looks nice but every damn part was creaking, I listened to it for maybe 5 minutes so I can't say much about the sound quality.
> 
> I read all the stellar reviews online about the looks and build quality and was surprised at the creaking so I asked him and he said most people buy Focal because of the name but there are much better headphones and don't believe all the reviews.
> 
> I also tried the Dan Clark Stealth beautiful build, sound I guess was not bad but the DMP-Z1 could not drive it even with high gain engaged. So I asked the guy what's going on, he said when they first got the Dan Clark Stealth unit they thought it was broken or something wrong as none of their amps in the store could drive it. Then they got the second demo pair and same issue. Bottom line he said don't believe the specs they are extremely difficult to drive with any amp. Very nice to look at and build quality was super and also very light too bad they are so difficult to drive.


Where did u go? Headfoneshop or BayBloorRadio?

I still have yet to listen to the Stellia but I’ve tried the Utopia and the Clear. I don’t remember those to creak badly. And for the Stealth, I used the WA11 Topaz and it was able to drive it quite easily in high gain with the volume knob at right around 10 o’clock. I’m surprised the DMP-Z1 would have trouble with it. I’ll probably head down to BBR to try that setup out. I haven’t been there in a while as Hfs is closer to me.


----------



## cat3600 (Oct 2, 2021)

riverground said:


> Where did u go? Headfoneshop or BayBloorRadio?


BayBloor they did a lot of reno, now they have a small room where you can shut the door and listen isolated to all the headphones you want to inside the room. Lol maybe because I took the DMP with me they were so nice 😜 btw sales person was very patient and no rushing.

Man it was creaking everywhere kind of put me off so I didn't really feel like listening, maybe a few minutes I plugged them in. I personally didn't like the way its built with all the metal especially the feeling of the metal where it's attached to the ear cups, and I didn't like the thick headband either. The Dan Clark Stealth was superbly built. I was at 2 or 3 o'clock on the DMP even with high gain and it wasn't loud!


----------



## riverground

cat3600 said:


> BayBloor they did a lot of reno, now they have a small room where you can shut the door and listen isolated to all the headphones you want to inside the room. Lol maybe because I took the DMP with me they were so nice 😜 btw sales person was very patient and no rushing.
> 
> Man it was creaking everywhere kind of put me off so I didn't really feel like listening, maybe a few minutes I plugged them in. I personally didn't like the way its built with all the metal especially the feeling of the metal where it's attached to the ear cups, and I didn't like the thick headband either. The Dan Clark Stealth was superbly built. I was at 2 or 3 o'clock on the DMP even with high gain and it wasn't loud!


Did you buy the DMP from them? 🤣 

Oh boy, I really need to visit BBR sometime soon!

I’m gonna go have a try with the Stellia as well.

Nice to see another person from Toronto here tho 😂


----------



## cat3600

riverground said:


> Did you buy the DMP from them? 🤣
> 
> Oh boy, I really need to visit BBR sometime soon!
> 
> ...


I bought the DMP from stephensonselectronics.com anything Sony you will get a deal no one else can match ask for James DM me if you want more info on how much I paid for the DMP and MDR-Z1R.

BBR has completely redesigned the entire store looks fabulous but I never buy my home hifi audio or pretty much anything from them they rarely discount, I only went there cause of their huge headphone selection and bought the Rai Penta as I spent 2 hours demoing lol.


----------



## riverground

cat3600 said:


> I bought the DMP from stephensonselectronics.com anything Sony you will get a deal no one else can match ask for James DM me if you want more info on how much I paid for the DMP and MDR-Z1R.
> 
> BBR has completely redesigned the entire store looks fabulous but I never buy my home hifi audio or pretty much anything from them they rarely discount, I only went there cause of their huge headphone selection and bought the Rai Penta as I spent 2 hours demoing lol.


I’ll definitely DM you later after work!

BBR was my go to for demoing stuff 😂 
But I have yet to buy stuff from my them. My dad however has bought way more there than I have 🤣 

The only thing I’ve bought from them was my DP-X1 I believe lol other than that, I don’t think I really bought anything outside of demoing their huge catalog.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> As I said, I don’t necessarily see a need for actual Hi Res files, FLAC, e.t.c. because the DSD Remastering is so good. Obviously, I don’t know what other owners do, but personally it’s a surprise to me, an unexpected one. I could fit nearly another 13.000 songs on with the space……unfortunately, I won’t live another 40 years to do that !


So ar you saying MP3 or AAC files work well with the DSD Remaster Engine ?  May i ask which bitrates? Assume >= 256kbps


----------



## Hinomotocho

Rob49 said:


> As I said, I don’t necessarily see a need for actual Hi Res files, FLAC, e.t.c. because the DSD Remastering is so good. Obviously, I don’t know what other owners do, but personally it’s a surprise to me, an unexpected one. I could fit nearly another 13.000 songs on with the space……unfortunately, I won’t live another 40 years to do that !


I've always had it in my head that it is better to feed it with a high quality file (at least flac) than to have a process upscale it? I figure that it is artificially creating something that was trimmed when it was down scaled from the original source. Maybe it is not a comparable example but I consider a 4K file to be better than an upscaled HD file, albeit that to the human eye or ear the difference in general may be minimal?
My mind can be uptight about small details but it is open to change if anyone can explain the remastering.


----------



## Layman1

Hinomotocho said:


> I've always had it in my head that it is better to feed it with a high quality file (at least flac) than to have a process upscale it? I figure that it is artificially creating something that was trimmed when it was down scaled from the original source. Maybe it is not a comparable example but I consider a 4K file to be better than an upscaled HD file, albeit that to the human eye or ear the difference in general may be minimal?
> My mind can be uptight about small details but it is open to change if anyone can explain the remastering.


I don't have the DMP-Z1 (yet!), but I can comment on this (and the question from @gerelmx1986 too).

I have the WM1Z, with MrWalkman's custom FW. I use the AI digital remastering function on it (I forget the exact name of it!).
I was reluctant to try it at first, being something of a non-EQ'ing purist by nature.
But although most of my music library is in hi-res or at least lossless format, I happen to have some tracks on MP3 that I just can't find anywhere to buy and download; mainly 10-15 year old Chinese pop/singer-songwriter songs, from 128kbps to 256.
I do notice a significant difference in sound quality with the digital remastering function; so much so that I now have it switched on all the time, and I believe it also affects the 16-bit FLAC files too, although of course not to the extent to which it does with MP3 files.

I mean songs with downright poor sound quality and burbling audio are transformed into good sounding audio. 
I rarely listen to such songs on any of my DAPs except for my Sony WM1Z (and upgraded ZX300 on the go).

So yes, I'd encourage you to give it a try. YMMV and all the usual disclaimers; let your own ears be the judge of whether it works for you


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> So ar you saying MP3 or AAC files work well with the DSD Remaster Engine ?  May i ask which bitrates? Assume >= 256kbps



I use JRiver or Sony media go to rip, I believe JRiver is ACC & I think Sony states MP4 ?? Well it shows that on JRiver, that’s my default media player. I actually upsample to DSD 128 for my Walkman’s, using JRiver, which I’ve always liked, obviously could upsample to FLAC, but I do hear a difference to my ears, anyway.

I did initially put my upsampled SD cards into the DMP-Z1 & it didn’t sound right to me. It was only when I ripped a CD, as above & switched on DSD Remastering, that I heard something unique & something I continue to be impressed by, each day.


Hinomotocho said:


> I've always had it in my head that it is better to feed it with a high quality file (at least flac) than to have a process upscale it? I figure that it is artificially creating something that was trimmed when it was down scaled from the original source. Maybe it is not a comparable example but I consider a 4K file to be better than an upscaled HD file, albeit that to the human eye or ear the difference in general may be minimal?
> My mind can be uptight about small details but it is open to change if anyone can explain the remastering.



All I can say as above & my previous posts, is that the DSD Remastering is like nothing I’ve ever heard before & I don’t feel as it is artificial in any way whatsoever. In fact it’s the complete opposite. It brings all the music & vocals to life.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Layman1 said:


> I don't have the DMP-Z1 (yet!), but I can comment on this (and the question from @gerelmx1986 too).
> 
> I have the WM1Z, with MrWalkman's custom FW. I use the AI digital remastering function on it (I forget the exact name of it!).
> I was reluctant to try it at first, being something of a non-EQ'ing purist by nature.
> ...


Thanks for your input. Part of my uptightness is battery preservation (per charge) so I use direct source.
I have mostly flac with quite a few hi-res but have some old obscure stuff that I only have in mp3 - I'll remember to switch it on my 1A. I have the TA-ZH1ES but from following the thread had just set it up with the general recommended settings with the remastering on and got on enjoying the music instead of comparing the settings.
I understand the benefits to lower quality files but I still feel I would opt to go for the at least flac rather than mp3 using upscaling, even for the sake of gaining storage.


Rob49 said:


> All I can say as above & my previous posts, is that the DSD Remastering is like nothing I’ve ever heard before & I don’t feel as it is artificial in any way whatsoever. In fact it’s the complete opposite. It brings all the music & vocals to life.


A good example of where you just go with your ears and not get caught up over thinking - mental note.
As my gear gets better my appreciation for music expands and broadens and my 512gb SD card is rapidly filling but I don't have anywhere near your song count so I haven't had to consider a lower spec files - bring on the 2TB microSD


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I use JRiver or Sony media go to rip, I believe JRiver is ACC & I think Sony states MP4 ?? Well it shows that on JRiver, that’s my default media player. I actually upsample to DSD 128 for my Walkman’s, using JRiver, which I’ve always liked, obviously could upsample to FLAC, but I do hear a difference to my ears, anyway.
> 
> I did initially put my upsampled SD cards into the DMP-Z1 & it didn’t sound right to me. It was only when I ripped a CD, as above & switched on DSD Remastering, that I heard something unique & something I continue to be impressed by, each day.
> 
> ...


Yes AAC is same as MP4, and is b tter than MP3.  The MP4 us juat a containwr hence AAC is MP4 audio and akao there are mp4 videos.

Yes when i tried the DMP in berlin i tried it with all off. Then tried DSEE HX which is upsample to PCM 32/384.
The magic really appeared like you say, until i switched DSD-RE. I played a downsampled DSD a(to FLAC 24/88.2) and sounded as clise as the original DSD that woed me. With CD flac as well HI-RES flac was so damn good. I have no mp3/aac files on my library


----------



## sanguineburrito (Oct 10, 2021)

Achievement unlocked 😆


----------



## Rob49

sanguineburrito said:


> Achievement unlocked 😆



How long did it take to reach the magic number ? ( l’m on 436 hours after just over 10 weeks. )


----------



## pdL389

gerelmx1986 said:


> Yes AAC is same as MP4, and is b tter than MP3.  The MP4 us juat a containwr hence AAC is MP4 audio and akao there are mp4 videos.
> 
> Yes when i tried the DMP in berlin i tried it with all off. Then tried DSEE HX which is upsample to PCM 32/384.
> The magic really appeared like you say, until i switched DSD-RE. I played a downsampled DSD a(to FLAC 24/88.2) and sounded as clise as the original DSD that woed me. With CD flac as well HI-RES flac was so damn good. I have no mp3/aac files on my library



For me: Direct all the way! 😊Tested "remastering" and DSEE,  Direct mode is just cleaner to my ears.  Almost 3/4th of the way to 1k - amazing how it is getting more and more airy and refined in the upper register.


----------



## Rob49

pdL389 said:


> For me: Direct all the way! 😊Tested "remastering" and DSEE,  Direct mode is just cleaner to my ears.  Almost 3/4th of the way to 1k - amazing how it is getting more and more airy and refined in the upper register.



Can I just clarify something please ? As I’ve posted previously, I have DSD RE on, but it also says, Direct Source on. It seems you can have both set on ??


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Can I just clarify something please ? As I’ve posted previously, I have DSD RE on, but it also says, Direct Source on. It seems you can have both set on ??


DsD-REnrefd dirext source to ve ON as a prerre zisite


----------



## sanguineburrito (Oct 10, 2021)

Rob49 said:


> How long did it take to reach the magic number ? ( l’m on 436 hours after just over 10 weeks. )


A year and a half.
You have to turn direct source on before you can access dsd remastering.


----------



## pdL389

Rob49 said:


> Can I just clarify something please ? As I’ve posted previously, I have DSD RE on, but it also says, Direct Source on. It seems you can have both set on ??


Correct. You can have both set on. Remastering is an independent feature and does not require Direct to be On or Off.


----------



## Rob49

sanguineburrito said:


> A year and a half.
> You have to turn direct source on before you can access dsd remastering.



At my listening rate ( I am at home all the time. ) I reckon I’m going to be on 4.000 hours after a year and a half. 


pdL389 said:


> Correct. You can have both set on. Remastering is an independent feature and does not require Direct to be On or Off.



Oh right. I’ll have to experiment more. I keep saying I will, but I’m really happy with how it’s presently set.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Wil the DMP-Z1 handle a library of roughly 62000+ tracks (.mix of FLAC, HI-Res FLAV & DSD)


----------



## efftee

cat3600 said:


> Can someone pls tell me the DMP DC plug size I did a search but the thread is too long I know I saw it somewhere. I am trying to buy an external power supply and was looking HDPlex which is always sold out.
> 
> I am looking at https://ferrum.audio/hypsos/ which only come with a
> 5.5x2.5mm and a 5.5x2.1mm DC plug will it fit the DMP?
> ...


There are adapters you can get if the plug is the wrong size. Curious to find more about what the Hypsos can do to/for the DMP-Z1.


----------



## gerelmx1986

efftee said:


> There are adapters you can get if the plug is the wrong size. Curious to find more about what the Hypsos can do to/for the DMP-Z1.


Continuing on theplug topic. I have a sony VAIO laptop that atoll works. Ithink the AC adaptor outputs 19.5V, would this work?

I ask also because my partnerhasone vaio that is kaputt


----------



## MrWalkman

gerelmx1986 said:


> Continuing on theplug topic. I have a sony VAIO laptop that atoll works. Ithink the AC adaptor outputs 19.5V, would this work?
> 
> I ask also because my partnerhasone vaio that is kaputt



That one is made specifically to charge a laptop, while these ones should be made to power up a DAP.


----------



## efftee

gerelmx1986 said:


> Continuing on theplug topic. I have a sony VAIO laptop that atoll works. Ithink the AC adaptor outputs 19.5V, would this work?
> 
> I ask also because my partnerhasone vaio that is kaputt


Um, I don’t understand what you mean… 🤷‍♂️


----------



## gerelmx1986

efftee said:


> Um, I don’t understand what you mean… 🤷‍♂️


A) if the plug size ia the same my BAIO uses to connect it to the Mains.
B) if the Input. Voltqg of the Z1 is 19.5c


----------



## cat3600

efftee said:


> There are adapters you can get if the plug is the wrong size. Curious to find more about what the Hypsos can do to/for the DMP-Z1.


Haven't pulled the plug yet on the Hypsos I take ages doing research and deciding 🤔 lol


----------



## efftee

gerelmx1986 said:


> A) if the plug size ia the same my BAIO uses to connect it to the Mains.
> B) if the Input. Voltqg of the Z1 is 19.5c


I am unfamiliar with plug sizes with the BAIO, etc, I just shared that if the plug size on the Hypsos was wrong, there were adaptors that are available, like these -- https://www.amazon.com/aceyoon-Adap...eywords=dc+plug+adapter&qid=1634215195&sr=8-5 -- that could be used to connect to the Z1.


----------



## Layman1

Just curious, but has anyone here compared the DMP-1Z to the Lotoo LPGT (original, not titanium)?

Would be interested to hear how they compare, as the LPGT has thus far been the pinnacle of DAP sound quality for me, in terms of just how it made every IEM I plugged into it sound almost a price tier higher (e.g. mid-range IEM sounding more like TOTL). 

I traded mine for a Sony WM1Z. I love the WM1Z too, but for different reasons. Perhaps my DX220MAX is the DAP I have which comes closest to the LPGT for technical performance, but I got that after trading the LPGT, so no chance to compare!


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> 4.4mm into balanced amplifier for my large stereos
> 
> Simply stunning with volume maxed out in low gain , on battery



Well 3 months in another 200 hours of listening ( 555 hrs in total. ) & this wonder still brings a smile to my face, throughout each & every day !

One thing I need to try & sort out now is speaker listening, for which I’ve been unsuccessful so far. Below is my AVR SONY STR-DN1080 & of course I’ve noticed @Whitigir is using a integrated amplifier. Is my AVR the reason I have no sound ??

I’ve tried two of my receiver inputs, but as I said no sound. One thing I haven’t done is max the volume on the DMP-Z1. Forgive my ignorance, but is the sound controlled by both volume dials, I.e. on the receiver too ?? I’m using the unbalanced connection, unlike @Whitigir 

Any help would be much appreciated, because I can already imagine how good the sound would be through my speakers, even though they’re not anything high end.


----------



## Whitigir

Both volume and you need to select input source in your Sony ?


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Both volume and you need to select input source in your Sony ?



Thanks @Whitigir so there’s no reason why my AVR shouldn’t work, following what you’ve said ? I know I didn’t max the volume on my DMP-Z1 & I recall fiddling around with my volume dial on my AVR.

I’m going to try again a little later this evening. Hoping I can get it to work….


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Both volume and you need to select input source in your Sony ?



Just to say I’ve done it now. At this moment, just listened a few seconds, but immediate impression, nothing special. Saying that my speakers aren’t anything high end & don’t know if using balanced would make a difference ??…..but I’ll have a further listen later, to an album I really like. Thanks again.


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Just to say I’ve done it now. At this moment, just listened a few seconds, but immediate impression, nothing special. Saying that my speakers aren’t anything high end & don’t know if using balanced would make a difference ??…..but I’ll have a further listen later, to an album I really like. Thanks again.


You are welcome! Enjoy your music


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> You are welcome! Enjoy your music



Got round to a longer listen today & my impression has changed. I think it sounds very good. I guess it would be even better using the balanced connection ?? Ultimately, it will still mainly be used for headphone listening, but it’s nice to have the option.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Got round to a longer listen today & my impression has changed. I think it sounds very good. I guess it would be even better using the balanced connection ?? Ultimately, it will still mainly be used for headphone listening, but it’s nice to have the option.


Only a  word of caution. Never connect a balanced to inbalanced. This can damage your DMP or the receiver or both.

If your AV  has a bakanced Input you can usethen the 4.4


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Only a  word of caution. Never connect a balanced to inbalanced. This can damage your DMP or the receiver or both.
> 
> If your AV  has a bakanced Input you can usethen the 4.4



Thanks for advice. As far as I know my receiver doesn’t have a balanced connection, so I can’t do it.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I will finally get my DMP as itturns out one cant save money on theregular bank account withoutthe socialwelfare authority notices it and removes the aid


----------



## cat3600

gerelmx1986 said:


> I will finally get my DMP as itturns out one cant save money on theregular bank account withoutthe socialwelfare authority notices it and removes the aid


Cash is king 🤴


----------



## cat3600

Whitigir said:


> 4.4mm into balanced amplifier for my large stereos
> 
> Simply stunning with volume maxed out in low gain , on battery





Whitigir said:


> 4.4mm into balanced amplifier for my large stereos
> 
> Simply stunning with volume maxed out in low gain , on battery


What brand 4.4mm to Balanced XLR is that?


----------



## Whitigir

cat3600 said:


> What brand 4.4mm to Balanced XLR is that?


Ugh, just my own DIY kind


----------



## Rob49 (Oct 30, 2021)

I just noticed a bizarre thing. I’m letting my DMP just play in alphabetical order, of albums & you can guess that I’m a stickler for monitoring hours of audio played. Well Madonna’s album “Rebel Heart’ was playing last & I was definitely on 578 hrs & 11 minutes. I’ve just resumed and the previous album was playing & the audio had gone back to 577 hrs & so many minutes. Odd ! ( I just realised that it started from where I switched it off last night & it’s like it’s wiped what I’ve played so far today. Hope that doesn’t happen again, especially has I have got into the habit of posting my monthly usage & of course that’s not now accurate ! - not that anyone’s interested in that, other than me !  )


----------



## gsiu33

pdL389 said:


> Correct. You can have both set on. Remastering is an independent feature and does not require Direct to be On or Off.


You can only enable DSD Remastering if Direct Source is ON.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I just noticed a bizarre thing. I’m letting my DMP just play in alphabetical order, of albums & you can guess that I’m a stickler for monitoring hours of audio played. Well Madonna’s album “Rebel Heart’ was playing last & I was definitely on 578 hrs & 11 minutes. I’ve just resumed and the previous album was playing & the audio had gone back to 577 hrs & so many minutes. Odd ! ( I just realised that it started from where I switched it off last night & it’s like it’s wiped what I’ve played so far today. Hope that doesn’t happen again, especially has I have got into the habit of posting my monthly usage & of course that’s not now accurate ! - not that anyone’s interested in that, other than me !  )


Do zpustill perceive burn in vhanges?


----------



## gerelmx1986

gsiu33 said:


> You can only enable DSD Remastering if Direct Source is ON.


Tup, that is something i noticed upon testing it in Berkin. Had i activated the sound effects it was grayed out. As soon i enabled source direct it became available to tick


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Do zpustill perceive burn in vhanges?



It’s sounded excellent from the off. Nothing obvious to me, but I’ve never been convinced by the notion of burn in & to me it would definitely have to be obvious & the only obvious thing is this is the best audio player I’ve ever heard, burn in, or not.


----------



## Whitigir

DMP Z1 has a dedicated Power supplies intake to “take advantages” of external PSU.  Unlike the Chinese stuff, or FiiO M17 , which is sharing the same Regulators from batteries for external PSU.

The DMP Z1 will benefit with an external power supply , depending on the design of such, the DMP Z1 is going to be at it optimized performances, if you don’t need to take it on the go, which needs the built in batteries.


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> DMP Z1 has a dedicated Power supplies intake to “take advantages” of external PSU.  Unlike the Chinese stuff, or FiiO M17 , which is sharing the same Regulators from batteries for external PSU.
> 
> The DMP Z1 will benefit with an external power supply , depending on the design of such, the DMP Z1 is going to be at it optimized performances, if you don’t need to take it on the go, which needs the built in batteries.



Remind us of your PSU again @Whitigir & it’s not as straight forward as plug in & play is it ?? Or is it ??


----------



## Whitigir

It is plug in and play, but because it was built dedicated for purest power supplies, it needs a certain steps in power on and off.

Other PSU which is also dedicated but with built in protections are also available.  I can recommend HDPlex easily.  You can also find some DIY stuff and have it commissioned to your taste, with the components of your choices


----------



## gerelmx1986

@Rob49  how did you manage to buy it off from amazon?
Amazon offers me a 5 month rate payments and i have a mastercard prepaid which i can reload and as well a bank account.

The problem is that with the montly payments amazon does not let me  use my Bqnk account which is linked via SEPA 

I put yesterday 2000€ into the mastercard prepaid and selected 5 month rayes of 1599.80€ and proceed and then says ot was an error that i must contact my bank and they moat likely recommend me using a two-st p v rificqtion


----------



## gerelmx1986

**** amazon after thw failure to verify my card they reduced the price slightly and rempved the 5 montly rates


----------



## gsiu33

DMP-Z1 hit 3,000 hours while listening to Vivaldi L'inverno. It reached 2,000 hours in 18 months due to the pandemic, but now not having too much time to stay at home, it take another 11 months to reach the 3,000-hour milestone.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Manag d it out with installing the Bank’s  verification ans authorization App.

Tho is showing as currently unavailable (i assume my aborted order yesterday that i die not have the app).

I bougth withthe Montly rates of 1596€


----------



## gerelmx1986

gsiu33 said:


> DMP-Z1 hit 3,000 hours while listening to Vivaldi L'inverno. It reached 2,000 hours in 18 months due to the pandemic, but now not having too much time to stay at home, it take another 11 months to reach the 3,000-hour milestone.


How dis you make acreenshot? Any special button combination?


----------



## MrWalkman

gerelmx1986 said:


> How dis you make acreenshot? Any special button combination?



He posted photos taken with a smartphone or something, not screenshots.


----------



## Rob49 (Nov 2, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> @Rob49  how did you manage to buy it off from amazon?
> Amazon offers me a 5 month rate payments and i have a mastercard prepaid which i can reload and as well a bank account.
> 
> The problem is that with the montly payments amazon does not let me  use my Bqnk account which is linked via SEPA
> ...



Hello my friend. I did not pay in instalments. Hope you manage to buy one, in whatever way !


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 2, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> @Rob49  how did you manage to buy it off from amazon?
> Amazon offers me a 5 month rate payments and i have a mastercard prepaid which i can reload and as well a bank account.
> 
> The problem is that with the montly payments amazon does not let me  use my Bqnk account which is linked via SEPA
> ...


Buy it directly from Sony. Just contact the Sony Store, they even offer 0% and they have great offers if you ask. I got my MDR-Z1R (new) for 1600€ just by asking for an offer.


----------



## gsiu33

MrWalkman said:


> He posted photos taken with a smartphone or something, not screenshots.


Yes, iPhone 12 Max Pro


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Hello my friend. I did not pay in instalments. Hope you manage to buy one, in whatever way !


Got it sorted out . It was an app that i must have to authorize and free transactions from online purchases (its a new EU Rule). 

Got ot for 5 instalments. Not yet delivered as it shows temp out of stock.


----------



## gerelmx1986

gsiu33 said:


> Yes, iPhone 12 Max Pro


Its looks very impressive if it was a screenshot from the device itself.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Got it sorted out . It was an app that i must have to authorize and free transactions from online purchases (its a new EU Rule).
> 
> Got ot for 5 instalments. Not yet delivered as it shows temp out of stock.



Hope it’s back in stock soon. Knowing Amazon, they will pull out all the stops, especially for such an expensive item !


----------



## gsiu33

gerelmx1986 said:


> Its looks very impressive if it was a screenshot from the device itself.


Beside listening to music, photography is another hobby I have since a teenager.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Hope it’s back in stock soon. Knowing Amazon, they will pull out all the stops, especially for such an expensive item !


It will be my kast audio purchase for many uears to come because A)Damn expensive and B) the absolute sound quality


----------



## gerelmx1986

How many fa does the DSD-Remastering does (64, 128 or 256fs)?


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> It will be my kast audio purchase for many uears to come because A)Damn expensive and B) the absolute sound quality



I know you’ve already had an audition, so you already have some idea. It is as I’ve described a number of times, it’s 5.1 multi channel music for headphone use, it really is.

Yes, it’s a huge cost, but a lifetime of pleasure & you wouldn’t need or want another audio device.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I know you’ve already had an audition, so you already have some idea. It is as I’ve described a number of times, it’s 5.1 multi channel music for headphone use, it really is.
> 
> Yes, it’s a huge cost, but a lifetime of pleasure & you wouldn’t need or want another audio device.


I was debating between fiio M17, or ibasso DX300MAX or SP2000/SE180 and rgus DMap-Z1.

Glad i went sony. I dont really need android, for that i have my truaty iPhone 8 plus


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I was debating between fiio M17, or ibasso DX300MAX or SP2000/SE180 and rgus DMap-Z1.
> 
> Glad i went sony. I dont really need android, for that i have my truaty iPhone 8 Plus



I’ve barely used my Walkman’s or any other audio device I own, since buying my DMP. 620 hours of listening now in 3 months & one week.


----------



## MrWalkman

gerelmx1986 said:


> I was debating between fiio M17, or ibasso DX300MAX or SP2000/SE180 and rgus DMap-Z1.
> 
> Glad i went sony. I dont really need android, for that i have my truaty iPhone 8 plus



While those are cheaper, they won't sound as good for sure.


----------



## gerelmx1986

MrWalkman said:


> While those are cheaper, they won't sound as good for sure.


I know that. I was onöy ja vaöuating options


----------



## RYCeT

I have WM1A. Do DMP-Z1 has a search function? Can you browse albums and songs through the remote?


----------



## MrWalkman (Nov 3, 2021)

RYCeT said:


> I have WM1A. Do DMP-Z1 has a search function? Can you browse albums and songs through the remote?



No, the firmware is basically the same in regards to the functions you mentioned.

I managed to run the DMP-Z1 firmware on the WM1A (can't make sound playing through the balanced or single-ended ports though) and I was able to take a look at everything.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> How many fa does the DSD-Remastering does (64, 128 or 256fs)?



PCM is resampled to 5.6 MHz.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Order changed to processing your shipment and i got already charged the first instalment out of 5


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Order changed to processing your shipment and i got already charged the first instalment out of 5



That’s great ! So exciting for you. I know you’re going to love it. Hearing all those details in your classical music. Well it’s the same for all music genre, of course.


----------



## The1Signature

@gerelmx1986 arrived? :-D I would like to buy one as well - i am from germany, too.


----------



## Vamp898

gerelmx1986 said:


> It will be my kast audio purchase for many uears to come because A)Damn expensive and B) the absolute sound quality


The absolute sound quality for Sonys Sound signature. There are devices providing higher sound quality, but not with the unique sound signature from Sony.

Sony's self developed capacitors are the ultimate reason to own this device. Combined with the output power of 1500mW@16Ω. It's the ultimate companion for headphones like the MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R.

But there are headphones that need are more neutral/flat sound like a lot of non-Sony IEM or the headphone from Sennheiser.

So it's not the ultimate generic tool. You need the right headphone to really utilize it to its full potential.


----------



## gerelmx1986

@Whitigir @purk  you both have opened and modded your DMP. Is the batteries like in WM1A soldered in the boatd ot it is connected to a multi-pin terminal? )socket)


----------



## JTTT

Whitigir said:


> I seriously don’t know why Sony want and praise Nichicon Fine gold sound.
> 
> I don’t like fine gold, it has a lot off bass and bloom, lush mid, but yet veil up lower mid details and harsh lower trebles and also compromises in sound stage .  There are so many other capacitors to choose from, like Audio Note, Elna...well...whatever.  In fact, I pulled them out of my lks 004 and replaced with something else





gerelmx1986 said:


> @Whitigir @purk  you both have opened and modded your DMP. Is the batteries like in WM1A soldered in the boatd ot it is connected to a multi-pin terminal? )socket)



I do not have a Z1 but it seems here are two separate batteries (one for analogue and one for digital) and at least the analogue ones seems connected via sockets,

Source: https://www.sony.jp/audio/products/DMP-Z1/
Source: also the earlier post found at the above.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Vamp898 said:


> The absolute sound quality for Sonys Sound signature. There are devices providing higher sound quality, but not with the unique sound signature from Sony.
> 
> Sony's self developed capacitors are the ultimate reason to own this device. Combined with the output power of 1500mW@16Ω. It's the ultimate companion for headphones like the MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R.
> 
> ...


Just like how the TA compliments the IER and MDR as well. Having those cans makes it really hard to discern which device is better than the other. Still, the DMP is a collector piece, an eventual antique perhaps down the road


----------



## Nostoi

Gamerlingual said:


> Still, the DMP is a collector piece, an eventual antique perhaps down the road


That's a charitable way to put it.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Gamerlingual said:


> Just like how the TA compliments the IER and MDR as well. Having those cans makes it really hard to discern which device is better than the other. Still, the DMP is a collector piece, an eventual antique perhaps down the road


Of course there is a difference between WM1A and DMP and its pretty obvious. Wm1A sound is inferior pretty Mid-fi


----------



## purk

gerelmx1986 said:


> @Whitigir @purk  you both have opened and modded your DMP. Is the batteries like in WM1A soldered in the boatd ot it is connected to a multi-pin terminal? )socket)


Whitigr modded my DMP.  Of course, I was able to compare side by side a stock unit and the one that he modded for me (the mod one was original his) before making the purchase.


----------



## purk

gerelmx1986 said:


> Of course there is a difference between WM1A and DMP and its pretty obvious. Wm1A sound is inferior pretty Mid-fi


Very much agreed.  There is no substitute for having more *quality* horsepower on tap.


----------



## The1Signature

Does anybody of the DMP-Z1 owners were able to test the Shanling EM5?

I trust Z Reviews and he gets crazy about it. I am now highly interested about a comparison.


----------



## purk

lara said:


> Does anybody of the DMP-Z1 owners were able to test the Shanling EM5?
> 
> I trust Z Reviews and he gets crazy about it. I am now highly interested about a comparison.


Then buy the Shanling EM5 and save your money.  These two products are not even on the same price bracket.  The DMP-Z1 can compete with a top tier separates comprising of a system such as a Headamp GSX MKII, Matrix X-Sabre Pro, and a digital transport.  Yes, it doesn’t have all the power in the world but the sound quality is really refined.  Don’t pay a full retailed price though, but I personally think it is a good deal if u can find one for under $6k.  Having a big gold knob doesn’t make it an equal.


----------



## Gamerlingual

gerelmx1986 said:


> Of course there is a difference between WM1A and DMP and its pretty obvious. Wm1A sound is inferior pretty Mid-fi


Never forget your roots. Despite the performance difference, it doesn't mean the 1A is garbage. I'll always enjoy it along with the TA.


----------



## nanaholic

lara said:


> Does anybody of the DMP-Z1 owners were able to test the Shanling EM5?
> 
> I trust Z Reviews and he gets crazy about it. I am now highly interested about a comparison.



The Shanling EM5 is a dedicated network streamer, while the DMP-Z1 is a dedicated standalone player. 

Somehow I don't see anyone would be interested in both products to be honest as they serve two extreme opposite ends of the usage scenario.


----------



## Redcarmoose

nanaholic said:


> The Shanling EM5 is a dedicated network streamer, while the DMP-Z1 is a dedicated standalone player.
> 
> Somehow I don't see anyone would be interested in both products to be honest as they serve two extreme opposite ends of the usage scenario.








Due to the glass top and gold knob; it’s a ghetto DMP-Z1.


----------



## nanaholic

Redcarmoose said:


> Due to the glass top and gold knob; it’s a ghetto DMP-Z1.



LOL.
Seriously though as a DMP-Z1 owner I simply don't see how a Shanling EM5 would fit into my music life.

As a DAC/amp with all the right headphone outputs, I can see it being used as something which connects to my PC, but then I have no use for the Android features at all as my PC is VASTLY more powerful than anything Android can offer when it comes to music and music manipulation, in which case I can spend better money elsewhere to just get a less fancy but better quality dumb DAC/amp combo. My KEF speakers are already streaming and Roon capable, so I don't need another streaming box to feed the speakers. It's not even a bedside companion/take anywhere in the house device like the DMP-Z1 either as it is AC powered, and if push comes to shove I can connect my iPad to the DMP-Z1 and I get exactly the same functionality as the EM5, but way more transportable.

I simply don't see any usage scenario for the EM5 that my current devices don't already serve or does better, it also doesn't consolidate anything. Unless it's talking about MOAR POWA or something, but I have no use for that either.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Due to the glass top and gold knob; it’s a ghetto DMP-Z1.


Seconded


----------



## Redcarmoose

Found on line:

“We have a term here [at a car dealership], 'There's an ass for every seat.' Once in a while you get a car that's ugly . . . . It's a car that you think, Oh my gosh, nobody' s ever going to buy that one. And sure enough, somebody'll come in and say, 'just what I've always wanted'”


nanaholic said:


> LOL.
> Seriously though as a DMP-Z1 owner I simply don't see how a Shanling EM5 would fit into my music life.
> 
> As a DAC/amp with all the right headphone outputs, I can see it being used as something which connects to my PC, but then I have no use for the Android features at all as my PC is VASTLY more powerful than anything Android can offer when it comes to music and music manipulation, in which case I can spend better money elsewhere to just get a less fancy but better quality dumb DAC/amp combo. My KEF speakers are already streaming and Roon capable, so I don't need another streaming box to feed the speakers. It's not even a bedside companion/take anywhere in the house device like the DMP-Z1 either as it is AC powered, and if push comes to shove I can connect my iPad to the DMP-Z1 and I get exactly the same functionality as the EM5, but way more transportable.
> ...





Gamerlingual said:


> Seconded


----------



## nanaholic

Redcarmoose said:


> Found on line:
> 
> “We have a term here [at a car dealership], 'There's an ass for every seat.' Once in a while you get a car that's ugly . . . . It's a car that you think, Oh my gosh, nobody' s ever going to buy that one. And sure enough, somebody'll come in and say, 'just what I've always wanted'”



I'm sure someone will find a use for it - just not me.

Also having thought it out some more, except for the gold knob the EM5 actually looks more like the Sony TA amp than the DMP-Z1. TA is also a desktop stationary AC powered DAC/amp combo, has all the headphone connections etc, just not the Android functionality the EM5 has. In fact the "dumb DAC/amp combo" I was mentioning in my first post, the TA would fit perfectly.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Nov 8, 2021)

Never heard the TA  “dumb DAC/amp combo" described just that way? 


nanaholic said:


> I'm sure someone will find a use for it - just not me.
> 
> Also having thought it out some more, except for the gold knob the EM5 actually looks more like the Sony TA amp than the DMP-Z1. TA is also a desktop stationary AC powered DAC/amp combo, has all the headphone connections etc, just not the Android functionality the EM5 has. In fact the "dumb DAC/amp combo" I was mentioning in my first post, the TA would fit perfectly.


----------



## nanaholic

Redcarmoose said:


> Never heard the TA  “dumb DAC/amp combo" described just that way?


Only because the EM5 has Android which makes it "smart", whereas the TA is just a DAC/amp combo without any of the smart features which makes it dumb.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Oh, I get it.


----------



## The1Signature

since i love sony, i would always prefer the DMP-Z1. however, i was just curious about it as Z reviews got crazy about as he never did. and at the very end it is all about the sound quality, nothing else. i have to write z reviews to make a 1 by 1 comparison


----------



## gerelmx1986

Gamerlingual said:


> Never forget your roots. Despite the performance difference, it doesn't mean the 1A is garbage. I'll always enjoy it along with the TA.


I die not say its garbage. I will not sell it actually


----------



## Gamerlingual

gerelmx1986 said:


> I die not say its garbage. I will not sell it actually


Enjoy. The DMP is awesome.


----------



## Wikinaut (Nov 8, 2021)

I've had my DMP-Z1 for over 6 months now and FINALLY discovered that there are dedicated settings for the playback screen!

Sharing it here in the unlikely case anyone else is a clueless as me! Enjoy! 😉


----------



## gerelmx1986




----------



## Redcarmoose

Congratulations! 


gerelmx1986 said:


>


----------



## Damz87

gerelmx1986 said:


>


Wow that was quick! Congrats!


----------



## The1Signature

enjoy my friend. i hope one day i will have it, too


----------



## gerelmx1986

What i saw
DC phase linearizer is gone from sound effects
DSDE HX has no more the dtopdown list to select the five different rypes available in WM1A
It has AKM DAC Filters. Can these be used in DSD-RE?
It came woth two AC cords - European and UK
Has no hold switch
I note volume is a bit lower in High gain but more spacious
Database build was pretty fast even with two 1TB cards almost full

How long it will take to fully break-in?
Does it has EU Volume cap?


----------



## Rob49 (Nov 9, 2021)

Gamerlingual said:


> Just like how the TA compliments the IER and MDR as well. Having those cans makes it really hard to discern which device is better than the other. Still, the DMP is a collector piece, an eventual antique perhaps down the road



The DMP really doesn’t have any competition regards sound quality & antiques gather dust, I don’t think the DMP will ever do that !


lara said:


> since i love sony, i would always prefer the DMP-Z1. however, i was just curious about it as Z reviews got crazy about as he never did. and at the very end it is all about the sound quality, nothing else. i have to write z reviews to make a 1 by 1 comparison



I’ve watched a number of his reviews for headphones & I find that in a 45 min - 1 hour review, it’s 58 minutes loving the sound of his own voice & 2 minutes about the actual product. His voice & loudness of it, is a real turn off for me. I think “crazy” is apt !


gerelmx1986 said:


>



I’m so pleased for you my friend. I know you’re going to have hours of absolute audio bliss ! We talked recently about burn in improvements & I’ve always been a bit of a sceptic about it, but in these last 48 hours or so & now 676 hours of play, I’m beginning to change my mind. It just gets better & better. Completely lost & seduced by the sound & stage.

Congrats !

( Isn’t it time that @Redcarmoose bought one ! ??  )


----------



## Redcarmoose

Rob49 said:


> The DMP really doesn’t have any competition regards sound quality & antiques gather dust, I don’t think the DMP will ever do that !
> 
> 
> I’ve watched a number of his reviews for headphones & I find that in a 45 min - 1 hour review, it’s 58 minutes loving the sound of his own voice & 2 minutes about the actual product. His voice & loudness of it, is a real turn off for me. I think “crazy” is apt !
> ...


Haha. You could give me one, I’ll take it.


----------



## Rob49

Redcarmoose said:


> Haha. You could give me one, I’ll take it.



( but what about the DMP ! ??  ) SORRY !

I tell you what, I’ll leave mine to you in my Will…..


----------



## gerelmx1986

I think either @purk or @Whitigir  m ntioned a 1500 hour burn time for just one port


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I think either @purk or @Whitigir  m ntioned a 1500 hour burn time for just one port



I wouldn’t worry about that at all…….just listen……& enjoy……


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I wouldn’t worry about that at all…….just listen……& enjoy……


One queetion, the USB Cable is only for data/Dile transfers or it can also charge through the USB C port?


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> One queetion, the USB Cable is only for data/Dile transfers or it can also charge through the USB C port?



I don’t actually know, but my guess is probably not ??


----------



## gerelmx1986

Currently listening to Mozart symphonies 1-4, 7 and 7a


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Currently listening to Mozart symphonies 1-4, 7 and 7a



…..no DSD Remastering on ?? I’d certainly give that a go, at some point….


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> …..no DSD Remastering on ?? I’d certainly give that a go, at some point….


I am trying it now ans certqinly like what i hear. I wikk akso try outthe DAC filters


----------



## cat3600

gerelmx1986 said:


>


Make sure to use some kind of super soft cloth or gloves to touch the volume knob, I feel it picks up fine lines/scratches by just breathing on it, lol


----------



## purk

@gerelmx1986, congrats man.  The DMP is a really special device!  Have fun and welcome to a highend segment.


----------



## gerelmx1986

purk said:


> @gerelmx1986, congrats man.  The DMP is a really special device!  Have fun and welcome to a highend segment.


I qm liking what i hear so far. At the moment at times gets bass heavy eben with IER-M7 (could be bad deutsche grammophone mastering) perhaps still needs to blossom out more


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I qm liking what i hear so far. At the moment at times gets bass heavy eben with IER-M7 (could be bad deutsche grammophone mastering) perhaps still needs to blossom out more



For me, it was immediate ( & amazing ) that you’re hearing musical instruments & voices accurately for the very first time. The sounds, the textures, that you can actually feel & not just hear. It really is all about the resolution of this player & I believe that must be down to the magic of the components & DSD Remastering.


----------



## Vamp898

Gamerlingual said:


> Just like how the TA compliments the IER and MDR as well. Having those cans makes it really hard to discern which device is better than the other. Still, the DMP is a collector piece, an eventual antique perhaps down the road


The DMP-Z1 is, of course, something different than the FiiO M17 for example.

Nobody will care about an M17 in most likely 5 years. Due to the shortage of AKM DACs FiiO kinda wants to make some of their products look like collector pieces (like the M11 Plus LTD or the K9 Pro), but AKM will recover, produce new DACs and then nobody will care about that old AKM DAC in the K9 Pro or M11 Plus LTD

It is actually pretty easy to create an device that produces an as perfect and flat/neutral sound as possible. But you don't buy an WM1Z, TA-ZH1ES or DMP-Z1 to mix/master/record music. You buy it to listen to music. If you hear an recording of an guitar, you don't want that it sounds like a recording, you want that it sounds like someone is sitting in front of you and is playing the actual guitar.

Sony does that with its unique technologies and most/mainly its self developed capacitors. The Sound of Sony devices is unique. The Sound of the FiiO M11 Plus LTD is the sound of THX AAA. Thats nothing bad, its just nothing special. Every company who builds an DAP and uses THX AAA Amps will most likely sound 99,9% identical.

That is why The M11 Plus LTD, M17 and so on are much cheaper. FiiO buys the hardware and tucks them together. It sounds and measures excellent, but natrual/flat/neutral.

The best sound is subjective, not objective. For me, i like Sonys Sound best. I play music myself and i know how instruments sound in real life. I want them to sound real when i listen to them and so far, only Sony devices gave me that.

There are technically better devices. The M17 is, on paper, better than the DMP-Z1 and i am sure it will measure much better. But if you listen to an recording of an guitar, with the DMP-Z1 it will sound like the guitar is really there. If you listen to it with the M17, it sounds like an perfect replication of an recording, but not an replication of the actual instrument. So for me, the DMP-Z1 (or WM1Z or TA-ZH1ES) is the winner.


----------



## Vamp898

Rob49 said:


> For me, it was immediate ( & amazing ) that you’re hearing musical instruments & voices accurately for the very first time. The sounds, the textures, that you can actually feel & not just hear. It really is all about the resolution of this player & I believe that must be down to the magic of the components & DSD Remastering.


Its due to the choices of capacitors. Thats the typical Sound of Sony.


----------



## cat3600

Vamp898 said:


> Its due to the choices of capacitors. Thats the typical Sound of Sony.


Just curious if one changes the capacitor can we expect a different more neutral sound signature vs the typical Sony house sound. I know @Whitigir did it. I am OK with the Sony house sound but might want to try changing the capacitors in the future


----------



## MrWalkman (Nov 9, 2021)

cat3600 said:


> Just curious if one changes the capacitor can we expect a different more neutral sound signature vs the typical Sony house sound. I know @Whitigir did it. I am OK with the Sony house sound but might want to try changing the capacitors in the future



You could get a more refined sound, but contrary to what Sony claims, the sound signature characteristics in these Sony players are a result of brilliant sound processing by Sony.

Just try something like the WM1A/Z firmware on a small player like A55, for example, and you'll hear what I'm talking about.

Hardware has a small part in the resulting sound signature on these players.

Edit: It's honestly weird seeing Sony Walkman engineers talking about copper/aluminium chassis, certain wires, capacitors, and when you try something like what I suggested above, you realise that it's not really that much about that. Manually disabling sound processing in a WM1A/Z firmware brings out a very flat and uninteresting sound, while when the sound processing is on, the sound becomes alive.

Nonetheless, I am grateful for this. My WM1A sound amazingly good now, as well as my A45 and A55.


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 9, 2021)

cat3600 said:


> Just curious if one changes the capacitor can we expect a different more neutral sound signature vs the typical Sony house sound. I know @Whitigir did it. I am OK with the Sony house sound but might want to try changing the capacitors in the future


Yes and no.

You can and will change the sound, but Sony already decided how many capacitors are there in which constellation, so you're not completely free.

Even though some people have the balls to do so, I would not call the Walkman or DMP a modding device.

The capacitors are self developed and build by Sony Specifically for these devices. They tuned their capacititors for years.

You buy an device for the sound they produce.

You can exchange them and you will change the sound but I highly doubt it will be better than before.

I highly recommend against doing so, rather just get a different device in addition.

If you want a more flat/neutral version of the DMP-Z1, get the M17. It's cheap enough to just have both

The capacitor is the biggest influence to the sound of an amp. There are DIY Amplifier Kits you can buy to play around and you'll be surprised how changing one capacitor completely changed the whole sound signature.

Also with the ZX300 and WM1Z for example, sometimes you're able to play music when the capacitors are not fully charged (I think that's due to a bug in power saving)

If you experience this, you'll notice that in the begining the sound is pretty flat and lifeless and the more the capacitors are charged (takes a few seconds), it gets its typical sound.


----------



## Whitigir

cat3600 said:


> Just curious if one changes the capacitor can we expect a different more neutral sound signature vs the typical Sony house sound. I know @Whitigir did it. I am OK with the Sony house sound but might want to try changing the capacitors in the future


Yes, it will have it “influences” on the performances.


----------



## cat3600

On a different note my Sony NW-HD1 still brand new no scratches but the magnesium body is getting discoloration in a few places. I bought it new and sort of never used it!


----------



## gerelmx1986

All my  music in one device at my finger pngertips


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> All my  music in one device at my finger pngertips



That’s just one of the great things about it. Not that I haven’t got all my music collection on another device, ( Sony HAP-S1. ) which sounds excellent, but that’s not something I can move around, unlike the DMP-Z1.

What’s your further thoughts ? How many hours have you clocked up now ?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> That’s just one of the great things about it. Not that I haven’t got all my music collection on another device, ( Sony HAP-S1. ) which sounds excellent, but that’s not something I can move around, unlike the DMP-Z1.
> 
> What’s your further thoughts ? How many hours have you clocked up now ?


6 hours 30 minutes with a mix  of direct, DSD-RE and DSEE


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> 6 hours 30 minutes with a mix  of direct, DSD-RE and DSEE



Hope you’re enjoying it ? So far today,  I’ve clocked up another 8 hours of listening. It’s SO addictive !


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 9, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> 6 hours 30 minutes with a mix  of direct, DSD-RE and DSEE


Somehow I haven't felt that DSD-RE is really causing an improvement.

It's more a change than an improvement. I have the same feeling about the DSD Remaster feature in the TA-ZH1ES

With poor quality files I liked the result is DSEE tough


----------



## Hinomotocho (Nov 9, 2021)

cat3600 said:


> On a different note my Sony NW-HD1 still brand new no scratches but the magnesium body is getting discoloration in a few places. I bought it new and sort of never used it!


What a coincidence, I was just thinking about this one about an hour ago, it was my first MP3 player.
I only used it with the cheap included buds but to me coming from an MD player it sounded really dull and flat, I always wondered if better iems got better results?
I loathed Sonicstage.


----------



## Rob49

Vamp898 said:


> Somehow I haven't felt that DSD-RE is really causing an improvement.
> 
> It's more a change than an improvement. I have the same feeling about the DSD Remaster feature in the TA-ZH1ES
> 
> With poor quality files I liked the result is DSEE tough



I personally think DSD Remastering adds that touch more of sparkle & punch.

( Are you still “renting” the player ?? )


----------



## Hinomotocho

Rob49 said:


> Hope you’re enjoying it ? So far today,  I’ve clocked up another 8 hours of listening. It’s SO addictive !


I envy you for your DMP-Z1 and most of all your ability to clock up so many listening hours. Between working 6 days, sleep, spending time with my partner and watching the odd TV program or movie I struggle some days to clock up minutes.


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 9, 2021)

Rob49 said:


> I personally think DSD Remastering adds that touch more of sparkle & punch.
> 
> ( Are you still “renting” the player ?? )


No, I did three times to test it in-depth for several days, but I have no use for an portable desktop amp, so I never got it and even with the IER-M9, I did not have the feeling that there is an improvement over the TA-ZH1ES..

Actually the DMP-Z1 was the first device I tested before getting the WM1Z+TA-ZH1ES because I thought why get two devices when you can have both in one.

But it is too big/heavy to use it while commuting (I tried). So I would have needed an portable player in addition, maintain two libraries, keep them both charged.

I would only have used it at home so I decided for the WM1Z+TA-ZH1ES combo. The WM1Z is my main player and when I'm at home, I plug it to the TA-ZH1ES to get the better sound + it charges the WM1Z.

So for me personally, that was the better solution.

But I remember that I disliked DSD Remaster on the DMP-Z1 and I still dislike it on the TA-ZH1ES.

Especially with acoustic and live performances it started to sound less real and a bit more plastic. The attack of hammers on strings have been softer and so on.

I'm just more of the direct guy. I want my music as untouched as possible.


----------



## Rob49

Hinomotocho said:


> I envy you for your DMP-Z1 and most of all your ability to clock up so many listening hours. Between working 6 days, sleep, spending time with my partner and watching the odd TV program or movie I struggle some days to clock up minutes.



I have chronic illness & disability, for the last 21 + years, & part of my condition is noise hypersensitivity. During the first 5 years of becoming ill, I couldn’t even listen to two consecutive songs on a CD, so I’ve made some improvements with that side of things, but I also wonder if it’s becoming a bit of overkill ?? My body ( head ) will tell me, when I’m getting head pains, which I expected before now, but it seems it’s having the opposite effect and stimulating my brain.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Rob49 said:


> I have chronic illness & disability, for the last 21 + years, & part of my condition is noise hypersensitivity. During the first 5 years of becoming ill, I couldn’t even listen to two consecutive songs on a CD, so I’ve made some improvements with that side of things, but I also wonder if it’s becoming a bit of overkill ?? My body ( head ) will tell me, when I’m getting head pains, which I expected before now, but it seems it’s having the opposite effect and stimulating my brain.


I am sorry to hear of your condition, but glad to hear it hasn't denied you the ability to experience your music. 
Music definitely has some healing properties, whether it's a science based approach of sound waves and frequencies or a deep and meaningful one of catharsis etc, at the very least just having someone express your emotions with some cool lyrics and kick ass beats that gets your toes tapping. 
Going from 2 songs to a staggering numbers of playback hours is a darn miracle and proof to some sort of healing, keep doing what you're doing. 
All the best


----------



## Rob49

Hinomotocho said:


> I am sorry to hear of your condition, but glad to hear it hasn't denied you the ability to experience your music.
> Music definitely has some healing properties, whether it's a science based approach of sound waves and frequencies or a deep and meaningful one of catharsis etc, at the very least just having someone express your emotions with some cool lyrics and kick ass beats that gets your toes tapping.
> Going from 2 songs to a staggering numbers of playback hours is a darn miracle and proof to some sort of healing, keep doing what you're doing.
> All the best



Thank you for your very kind words. I hope you manage to get a little more relaxing time & are able to listen a little more. ( Sadly, it’s the only activity to improve, but you just have to do the best with the situation & at least I can have some enjoyment with something. )


----------



## gerelmx1986

I forgot to take not it . which DAC Filter option is the default one?


----------



## pdL389 (Nov 9, 2021)

Just clocked 1k. Truly impressive sound at this mark. For those that bought it brand new, be patient during the burn in process.  It sure does require a minimum of 900-1000hrs Mine got that “breakthrough” in sound performance around 960-ish.  I can only say that at 1k, this toy is magical and is like nothing I owned or auditioned before.

Definitely my both DAPs Astell&Kern SP2000 Vegas Gold and Sony WM1Z are going for sale 😊


----------



## cat3600

Hinomotocho said:


> What a coincidence, I was just thinking about this one about an hour ago, it was my first MP3 player.
> I only used it with the cheap included buds but to me coming from an MD player it sounded really dull and flat, I always wondered if better iems got better results?
> I loathed Sonicstage.


Aaahh Sonicstage I guess Sony software always sucked. I think in Canada we never got any headphones I don't remember though so long ago. I had quite a few MD players the big players for Home Audio had some crazy good ES Products


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 10, 2021)

pdL389 said:


> Just clocked 1k. Truly impressive sound at this mark. For those that bought it brand new, be patient during the burn in process.  It sure does require a minimum of 900-1000hrs Mine got that “breakthrough” in sound performance around 960-ish.  I can only say that at 1k, this toy is magical and is like nothing I owned or auditioned before.
> 
> Definitely my both DAPs Astell&Kern SP2000 Vegas Gold and Sony WM1Z are going for sale 😊


1000h? Huh? That's new. Sony says, at most, 200h.

Most people say they no longer hear a difference after 100-120 hours.

So I'd say if you don't like the sound after 100h, return it


----------



## gerelmx1986

Vamp898 said:


> 1000h? Huh? That's new. Sony says, at most, 200h.
> 
> Most people say they no longer hear a difference after 100-120 hours.
> 
> So I'd say if you don't like the sound after 100h, return it


@Whitigir  stated somrwhere here vack in 2019 also 1500 hours burn-in


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 10, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> @Whitigir  stated somrwhere here vack in 2019 also 1500 hours burn-in


After 1500h no living human on this planet is able comprehend the difference. So we're basically not talking about the Burn-In of the Device but just getting used to the sound.

Sony developed and build the capacitors they use in this device them self. I am pretty sure they know how much burn-in they need and if Sony says, at most 200h, it is at most 200h.

Everything else is just burn-in in your brain.


----------



## Rob49 (Nov 10, 2021)

Regards “burn in” I think there’s so much pointless talk & obsession about it. Some people swear by it, some people are sceptic about it, like myself, although I did post yesterday that I felt my DMP-Z1 was getting better, but that could just as well be in the moment of enjoying a song / album ?

The only thing I can definitely say is, that the unique DMP sound was there from the off & immediate to me. One of the first albums that I listened to was “History” Past Present & Future - Michael Jackson, which was immediately different to what I’d heard before, but when I reach that magic 1K mark, ( Just for example. ) am I going to have any idea what I heard a thousand hours before, or know if it sounds different in any way ? Very doubtful ! ??

My philosophy is to just enjoy what I have hear & forget about whether anything is 200 hours, 1.000 hours or 1.500 hours & logically if there was such an obvious improvement, why should it stop there ! ?? The notion that you get to 200 hours, or whatever & there’s this change is a bit of psycho babble really, although I don’t dismiss that capacitors / components do burn in & have no real reason to doubt what Sony say. One thing I will never understand are those that buy an audio product & let it run for X amount of hours, ( for the suggested “burn in time” ) but don’t listen to it during that time. How can you KNOW of any possible changes ! ??

Anyway, I’m going to give my ( Mouldy ! ) Sony MDR-Z1R’s a bit of a go today, properly, for the first time, with my DMP. I think I may have been a bit rash to assume they were not a good match ???


----------



## Nostoi

Burn in is simply a facet of human psychology. People like to have the idea that their audio gear will at some point, after hours and hours of use, suddenly reveal itself in a new way - it's an appealing myth based on the idea of that there's a DAC/amp/DAP has a series of secrets waiting to be discovered, so long as we're patient enough. 

But that's not how audio gear works nor is it how the human brain works. We hear a unit and everything you want to know is there from the outset. Anything after is a series of subtle changes that take place when we acclimatize ourselves to a new set-up. 

As the chap above says, any sudden changes have *way* more to do with emotional states than anything else.


----------



## gerelmx1986

The DMP has lots of piwer even in low gain. Neigher with IER-Z1R nor MDR-Z1R can i go past 11:30/34:30 on the volume


----------



## Vamp898

gerelmx1986 said:


> The DMP has lots of piwer even in low gain. Neigher with IER-Z1R nor MDR-Z1R can i go past 11:30/34:30 on the volume


That is its main feature.

Originally they wanted to use the S-Master in the DMP-Z1 but it couldn't deliver the power they wanted and so decided for the combination of AKM DAC + self developed AMP (using Ti Chips).

I personally would have loved to see the S-Master in the DMP-Z1. Especially because it would have been much smaller and lighter that way.

An DAC+Analog Amp Kombo is always bigger and uses much more power than an digital amp (even if its an hybrid like the S-Master).

But if i remember correctly, this was the 8th Version of the Amp they developed but the first one that got into production. Maybe they just wanted to see the Amp in an final product after they developed so many iterations of it^^

Maybe its a mix of all. They wanted to finally see their amp in an production model, they needed/wanted the power and most likely it would have been even more expensive if they would have used the S-Master.


----------



## purk

gerelmx1986 said:


> The DMP has lots of piwer even in low gain. Neigher with IER-Z1R nor MDR-Z1R can i go past 11:30/34:30 on the volume


You need a Senn HD800S.  It sounds phenomenal with DMP-Z1.


----------



## gerelmx1986

When i have the opportunity to be in Brtlin and if @DarginMahkum  has the DC300MAX and fiio M17 we could arrabfe a meeting to hear the daps, especially DX300MAX


----------



## Rob49 (Nov 10, 2021)

purk said:


> You need a Senn HD800S.  It sounds phenomenal with DMP-Z1.



I gave my Sony MDR-Z1R’s their first proper stint today, but after less than 2 hours I reverted back to my Sony MDR -1AM2’s, which I love with the DMP. My only other headphones are the Senn 660S, which I haven’t given a really good try yet.

I think @Whitigir pairs the Senn HD800S too ? It’s got me thinking…..

What are your go to headphones with the DMP-Z1, guys & girls ?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Maybe can @jude  kindly measure the DMP-Z1 and provide some graphs and moat important. How much Voltage does it output in the following;
A) 4.4mm low gain
N) 4.4mm high gain
C) SE low gain
D) SE High gain


----------



## Vamp898

I haven't tried the HD800S on the DMP-Z1 but i tried the HD800S and HD820 on the TA-ZH1ES and WM1Z and it sounded horrible.

It had this weird compressed sound like someone put an EQ on it. I had the feeling the Amp tries the headphone to produce sounds it doesn't want to.

To me personally, the HD800S and HD820 performed the best with the M11 Plus LTD with its extremely flat, neutral and analytic sound. They really started to shine and show what they are capable off.

On the other hand, the MDR-Z1R sounded boring and lifeless on the M11 Plus LTD. I first liked it better because it was a tiny bit more detailed and more balanced, but this is not what this headphone is about. Things that sounded realistic started to sound like recordings.

After my experience, the best Headphone you can use with the DMP-Z1 are Sony Headphones. They have exactly the characteristics that match the sound of that DAP and result in an extremely realistic sound.


----------



## DarginMahkum (Nov 10, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> When i have the opportunity to be in Brtlin and if @DarginMahkum  has the DC300MAX and fiio M17 we could arrabfe a meeting to hear the daps, especially DX300MAX


I would love to but I sold my both iBasso DAPs and I am DAPless right now. M17 is still a mystery. I don't know when it will arrive. Though I have an awesome battery powered RME ADI-2.


----------



## gerelmx1986




----------



## Hinomotocho

DarginMahkum said:


> I would love to but I sold my both iBasso DAPs and I am DAPless right now. M17 is still a mystery. I don't know when it will arrive. Though I have an awesome battery powered RME ADI-2.


Brilliant. It's small and light, totally transportable.


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 10, 2021)

DarginMahkum said:


> I would love to but I sold my both iBasso DAPs and I am DAPless right now. M17 is still a mystery. I don't know when it will arrive. Though I have an awesome battery powered RME ADI-2.


DAPless? I could not exist without a DAP :O if I could have only one device, it would be a DAP


----------



## gerelmx1986

purk said:


> @gerelmx1986, congrats man.  The DMP is a really special device!  Have fun and welcome to a highend segment.


How dies the Senn HD660S farrs against HD800S?


----------



## Whitigir

A lot of things can be operated with 18650 packs.  The matter would be the BMS on that packs though….it also effects sound quality


----------



## purk

gerelmx1986 said:


> How dies the Senn HD660S farrs against HD800S?


The HD800S are a much better headphones.  The better system you have, the better it performs.


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 11, 2021)

But i find it surprising that even thogh so many players have more and more power, the best they perform in Low-Gain and the Low-Gain Power isn't increasing that drastically.

In Low-Gain, there is not much difference in volume between the (@32Ω)
3000mW FiiO M17
1200mW TA-ZH1ES
750mW DMP-Z1
588mW FiiO M11 Plus LTD
125mW NW-WM1Z.

So it seems that even though the devices can output more and more power, there is not much more power on Low-Gain (which you want to use for highest quality).

The difference with the M17 from Low-Gain to Highest-Gain is 22db, so it drops below 1/4 of its maximum volume in Low-Gain. Volume 24 on Highgest Gain is Volume 120 on Low-Gain.

Btw. i always thought the DMP-Z1 has more power than the TA-ZH1ES but to my surprise, its the opposide. The TA-ZH1ES does have 1200mW@32Ω and the DMP-Z1 does have 1500mW@16Ω

I thought their performance were both given at 16Ω but according to sony.jp, the TA-ZH1ES performance is at 32Ω. So the S-Master is capable of more output power, not just in a portable device for whatever reason. Maybe its a really picky DAC/AMP that needs a lot of right circumstances to perform well.


----------



## Damz87

Vamp898 said:


> But i find it surprising that even thogh so many players have more and more power, the best they perform in Low-Gain and the Low-Gain Power isn't increasing that drastically.
> 
> In Low-Gain, there is not much difference in volume between the (@32Ω)
> 3000mW FiiO M17
> ...


Yeah, I also thought the TA-ZH1ES had less power until I double checked the specs about 6 months after owning both. 

However it does “feel” like DMP has more power when in practice? i.e. TA-ZH1ES on -35dB low gain with IER-Z1R sounds similar in volume to DMP at approx. 11 o’clock in low gain to my ears. So it seems like there’s more headroom on the DMP for some reason? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Vamp898

Damz87 said:


> Yeah, I also thought the TA-ZH1ES had less power until I double checked the specs about 6 months after owning both.
> 
> However it does “feel” like DMP has more power when in practice? i.e. TA-ZH1ES on -35dB low gain with IER-Z1R sounds similar in volume to DMP at approx. 11 o’clock in low gain to my ears. So it seems like there’s more headroom on the DMP for some reason? 🤷‍♂️


When i tested the DMP-Z1, i never doubt it would not have more power. It really felt like but looking at the specs, its different.

But i have to say, i never pushed the TA-ZH1ES beyond -15db and only with very quiet recordings. -15db feels like a lot but actually there is still more than double the volume left.

I think it is due to the nature of analog vs digital volume control, maybe... not sure. But the TA-ZH1ES increases the volume in 0,5db steps when you turn slowly, that is extremly slow. I think that is comparable to just blowing at the wheel of the DMP-Z1


----------



## gerelmx1986

Damz87 said:


> Yeah, I also thought the TA-ZH1ES had less power until I double checked the specs about 6 months after owning both.
> 
> However it does “feel” like DMP has more power when in practice? i.e. TA-ZH1ES on -35dB low gain with IER-Z1R sounds similar in volume to DMP at approx. 11 o’clock in low gain to my ears. So it seems like there’s more headroom on the DMP for some reason? 🤷‍♂️


Why displays volume in -xxdB the TA-ZH1RS? So then on Razzy is 0dB the maximum volume?


----------



## Redcarmoose

gerelmx1986 said:


> Why displays volume in -xxdB the TA-ZH1RS? So then on Razzy is 0dB the maximum volume?


Yes, 0.0dB at max for the TA.


----------



## Rob49 (Nov 11, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> How dies the Senn HD660S farrs against HD800S?



I tried out my Senn HD660S late last night & I will again at some point today & if I hadn’t heard anything else, they would be fine. Nothing is going to sound “bad” with the DMP-Z1.

BUT ! There are going to be headphones that go to the next level & amazingly my Sony MDR-1AM2’s do just that ! I bought these to try balanced when I bought my Sony ZX300 Walkman, just to try out for a cheapy option. You could describe them as being on the bass heavy side, when first hearing them.

Connected to the DMP-Z1 they sound unreal & proves that you don’t have to spend 1K - 4K to get an ideal match. I bought them in an Amazon sale, £150 & presently they are £189. My cable cost more than the headphones. ( I actually cut right through the stock cable while gardening this summer, with pruners….never ever, to be repeated I hope ! )

The bass isn’t boomy or overblown connected to my DMP or with @MrWalkman ’s great firmware on the ZX300. It’s full sounding, like every part of the soundstage. I would honestly recommend any DMP-Z1 owner to try the Sony MDR-1AM2’s, because they’re truly astonishing & of course, at a really great price, besides being so comfortable & light. The Senn 660S do clamp.

Who knows I may get round to buying the Senn HD800S or other more expensive headphones, but I’m beyond happy with my set up, as it is & I just go back to them, each time I try my other headphones.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I tried out my Senn HD660S late last night & I will again at some point today & if I hadn’t heard anything else, they would be fine. Nothing is going to sound “bad” with the DMP-Z1.
> 
> BUT ! There are going to be headphones that go to the next level & amazingly my Sony MDR-1AM2’s do just that ! I bought these to try balanced when I bought my Sony ZX300 Walkman, just to try out for a cheapy option. You could describe them as being on the bass heavy side, when first hearing them.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply.

One question. When  connecting DMP to the computer. The device must had had the database built?

I connected it today to transfer a new album and the screen was stuck in building database. I tranferred the album and when disconnecting. Stayed there in buildinf the database so i had to hit piwer u til it rebooted


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 12, 2021)

Rob49 said:


> I tried out my Senn HD660S late last night & I will again at some point today & if I hadn’t heard anything else, they would be fine. Nothing is going to sound “bad” with the DMP-Z1.
> 
> BUT ! There are going to be headphones that go to the next level & amazingly my Sony MDR-1AM2’s do just that ! I bought these to try balanced when I bought my Sony ZX300 Walkman, just to try out for a cheapy option. You could describe them as being on the bass heavy side, when first hearing them.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what i mean, and its the other way around.

The MDR-Z1R sounds better on the ZX300 than on an 4000€ Astell&Kern.

Sony does have its specific and unique Sound Signature and the Headphones and DAP/Amp are fully optimized for that.

FiiO FA9 + M11 Plus LTD --> Excellent Sound
IER-M9 + WM1Z --> Excellent Sound

FiiO FA9 + WM1Z --> Muddy and bloating sound, much worse than with the M11 Plus LTD
IER-M9 + M11 Plus LTD --> boring, flat, thin and very v-shaped sound.

Sony Headphones/Earphones need a Sony Source to shine and a Sony Source needs an Sony Headphone/Earphone to shine. Its pretty much a closed system.

An 180€ Headphone like the MDR-1AM2 sounds better on the DMP-Z1 than the 2400€ HD820 because they play to each other strengths. But that is no surprise, of course Sony is using the MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R for reference tuning and not their competitors devices.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> One question. When  connecting DMP to the computer. The device must had had the database built?
> 
> I connected it today to transfer a new album and the screen was stuck in building database. I tranferred the album and when disconnecting. Stayed there in buildinf the database so i had to hit piwer u til it rebooted



I’m not quite sure what you’re asking or saying ?? Did it freeze ? I find when you’re connecting to computer, you have to wait for it to appear in whatever media player transfer you use. I tend to use JRiver mainly & you have to wait longer sometimes for it to connect, to find device. Sometimes I have had to retry. I never ever disconnect the cable until I’m certain the database has successfully updated.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I’m not quite sure what you’re asking or saying ?? Did it freeze ? I find when you’re connecting to computer, you have to wait for it to appear in whatever media player transfer you use. I tend to use JRiver mainly & you have to wait longer sometimes for it to connect, to find device. Sometimes I have had to retry. I never ever disconnect the cable until I’m certain the database has successfully updated.


Yes it was completely off so o turned it on and while DMP was booting up. I coon cted the USB and it did appear on windows rxplorer with two SD cards and PLAYER. So i trqnsf rred my qobuz purchase. Then on safely wject (windows 10) i only ejected the card i put the Vivaldi album. And the DMP stayed on building sb unresponsive. Screen went out and dis not react ao i kept pressing on power for about 10 seconds for it to restart


----------



## Rob49

Vamp898 said:


> This is exactly what i mean, and its the other way around.
> 
> The MDR-Z1R sounds better on the ZX300 than on an 4000€ Astell&Kern.
> 
> ...



Strangely, I haven’t been able to have a sustained listen to my DMP with my MDR-Z1R’s, which I have owned more than 3 years now. I tried yesterday & did listen longer, but still resulted in switching back to my 1AM2’s. I definitely have a love / hate relationship with my Z1R’s.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I ell nezt rime i let it book completely including the 4 minute DB rebuild and when now playing screen show i connect it to PC.

Coupl more qu wtions. Guys you leave it on or tuen it off when for exapke going to bed?
I disabled the Auto shutdown timer IMO too short. When i know i will be using it again. I juat l t it on and goes to stand-by (for exapke fo to eat) and when going to bed i tuen it off.

How oft n you uset it on battery? I qm planning to ise it on AC and once every two months use the battery once. Right now i am conditioning or priming the batteries


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Yes it was completely off so o turned it on and while DMP was booting up. I coon cted the USB and it did appear on windows rxplorer with two SD cards and PLAYER. So i trqnsf rred my qobuz purchase. Then on safely wject (windows 10) i only ejected the card i put the Vivaldi album. And the DMP stayed on building sb unresponsive. Screen went out and dis not react ao i kept pressing on power for about 10 seconds for it to restart



Perhaps it was just a bit of a blip ?? Now that I’ve transferred my whole music library I’m only obviously transferring any new CD’s & I’m trying to remember if I’ve ever connected the cable first without switching the DMP on first, but I don’t think I have ??

The other week, I lost an hour or two of audio that had played & it picked up from where I had witched off the night before, so it wiped off the hour or so. Clearly things can go wrong. I’m sure my ZX300 has had more than one transferring or reading problem, since I bought it.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Perhaps it was just a bit of a blip ?? Now that I’ve transferred my whole music library I’m only obviously transferring any new CD’s & I’m trying to remember if I’ve ever connected the cable first without switching the DMP on first, but I don’t think I have ??
> 
> The other week, I lost an hour or two of audio that had played & it picked up from where I had witched off the night before, so it wiped off the hour or so. Clearly things can go wrong. I’m sure my ZX300 has had more than one transferring or reading problem, since I bought it.


My audio played counter is fone. Currently 23 hours 33 minutes


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I ell nezt rime i let it book completely including the 4 minute DB rebuild and when now playing screen show i connect it to PC.
> 
> Coupl more qu wtions. Guys you leave it on or tuen it off when for exapke going to bed?
> I disabled the Auto shutdown timer IMO too short. When i know i will be using it again. I juat l t it on and goes to stand-by (for exapke fo to eat) and when going to bed i tuen it off.
> ...



My database is very quick, but of course it depends on size of files e.t.c. ( I still don’t use SD cards & very much doubt I ever will ?? )

Mine is plugged in all day & I never leave it plugged in during the night, when not in use. Ever since I’ve purchased I’ve been concerned of battery use & I’ve definite cut that right down during the last two weeks. It sounds equally amazing plugged in, so I am going to preserve the battery as much as possible.


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 12, 2021)

Rob49 said:


> Strangely, I haven’t been able to have a sustained listen to my DMP with my MDR-Z1R’s, which I have owned more than 3 years now. I tried yesterday & did listen longer, but still resulted in switching back to my 1AM2’s. I definitely have a love / hate relationship with my Z1R’s.


I tried the MDR-Z1R on the M11 Plus LTD and at first i liked it more because i prefered the more natural and neutral sound. But i also noticed that it lost lots of its realism.

What the MDR-Z1R can do better than any other headphone is sound realistic. Make an recording of an solo guitar sound like the guitar player is standing in front of you.

I have a few live Album where, when i listen to them and close my eyes, its an pretty much perfect illusion of being inside the concert hall in the crowd. You hear the people clapping around you, some are more distand, some are closer.

Especially with Albums like Nackt II (i was on that specific concert and know exactly how it sounded) with the MDR-Z1R there is an ultimate authentic concert experience. With the MDR-1AM2 it sounds good, but not as realistic. It sounds more like listening to a recording than being on a concert.

That is something unique i never heard from any other Headphone and that is why i love the MDR-Z1R. That doesn't mean its the ultimative allrounder for every usecase. Their key factor is to sound as realistic as possible and i think the succeed in that territory 100%.

And they are only able to deliver that if you use them on an Sony DAP or Amp.


----------



## Rob49 (Nov 12, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> My audio played counter is fone. Currently 23 hours 33 minutes



I’ve just hit the 710 hours, as the intro to “Romeo & Juliet” - Dire Straits, played. So what’s your thoughts after 23 + of listening ?


Vamp898 said:


> What the MDR-Z1R can do better than any other headphone is sound realistic. Make an recording of an solo guitar sound like the guitar player is standing in front of you.
> 
> I have a few live Album where, when i listen to them and close my eyes, its an pretty much perfect illusion of being inside the concert hall
> 
> Especially with Albums like Nackt II (i was on that specific concert and know exactly how it sounded) with the MDR-Z1R there is an ultimate authentic concert experience. With the MDR-1AM2 it sounds good, but not as realistic. It sounds more like listening to a recording than being on a concert.



So you own the 1AM2’s and you used them with the DMP-Z1 when you were renting it ??

I have to completely disagree, what you describe as the concert like, live sound, is what I hear with the 1AM2’s. It’s what I hear with the 3 headphones I have, but to me the Z1R’s feel a little flat compared to the 1AM2’s. The latter sparkles IMO.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I’ve just hit the 710 hours, as the intro to “Romeo & Juliet” - Dire Straits, played. So what’s your thoughts after 23 + of listening ?


Amazing! Wow ich sound nig, spqcious, cl an and the sensation of surround is wow damn good.

I n ver heard MDR-Z1R this big and detailed natural. Cl an bass uet with good rumble (normal as present ad vefore whivh at times dis kot like that bass)


----------



## Rob49 (Nov 12, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> Amazing! Wow ich sound nig, spqcious, cl an and the sensation of surround is wow damn good.
> 
> I n ver heard MDR-Z1R this big and detailed natural. Cl an bass uet with good rumble (normal as present ad vefore whivh at times dis kot like that bass)



Obviously, from my posts I don’t quite connect with the Z1R’s has I’d like to, who knows it may happen !….but you’re completely right. The bass is like nothing I’ve ever heard replicated before, but you have to say that for any instrument with the DMP-Z1.

I’ve said it a number of times now, but Sony have replicated 5.1 multi channel music, for headphone use, with this magical player.

What the DMP-Z1 does clearly show, is how compressed CD’s are !


----------



## Vamp898

Rob49 said:


> I’ve just hit the 710 hours, as the intro to “Romeo & Juliet” - Dire Straits, played. So what’s your thoughts after 23 + of listening ?
> 
> 
> So you own the 1AM2’s and you used them with the DMP-Z1 when you were renting it ??
> ...


Not with the DMP-Z1. I used the MDR-1AM2 with the ZX507, WM1Z, TA-ZH1ES and M11 Plus LTD

Im arrogant enough to say that i am able to interpolate my experience with the MDR-1AM2 on the WM1Z and TA-ZH1ES to the DMP-Z1 because the DMP-Z1 doesn't sound different enough that this should not be possible.


----------



## Rob49 (Nov 12, 2021)

Vamp898 said:


> Not with the DMP-Z1. I used the MDR-1AM2 with the ZX507, WM1Z, TA-ZH1ES and M11 Plus LTD
> 
> Im arrogant enough to say that i am able to interpolate my experience with the MDR-1AM2 on the WM1Z and TA-ZH1ES to the DMP-Z1 because the DMP-Z1 doesn't sound different enough that this should not be possible.



As been said many times by ACTUAL OWNERS OF THE DMP-Z1 ( & not “renters” - I do find this odd, that you can find someone to “rent” this very expensive player, which is like gold dust, to even buy, now. ) that nothing else compares or even comes close to it !

With respect, you’re clearly not qualified to comment on how the 1AM2 sounds with the DMP, when you haven’t tried it. My observations are on reality, not fantasy.


----------



## gerelmx1986




----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


>



A bit close to the edge !


----------



## gerelmx1986

Maybe @nanaholic  can explain us what does DMP means, i rouvht either Digital Music Player and perhaps Desktop Music Player (giben the size and performance)
2. Qhy did sony went with a 3.1’’ screen? IMO too small for my eyes that can barely see. Must be using a magnifying glass
3. I rhink they mis uoted the piwer ojtput, either the device cab do 1500mW into 32-Ohms or more than 1500mW into 16-Ohm?


----------



## Wikinaut

Mine froze the other day while swiping around and playing with the display settings. The music continued to play, but the touchscreen and buttons did nothing. After a minute or two, it rebooted by itself.


----------



## gerelmx1986




----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


>



I am continuing to listen in alphabetical order & The Essential Motzart is presently playing. A CD my partner bought for me, last Christmas.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I am continuing to listen in alphabetical order & The Essential Motzart is presently playing. A CD my partner bought for me, last Christmas.


Very nice accutacy with DSD-RE . This CD is from the compl te Philips Mozart edition (i180 CDs)


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Very nice accutacy with DSD-RE . This CD is from the compl te Philips Mozart edition (i180 CDs)



DSD-Remastering is on all the time for me. Enjoying Mozart & as I said before, I now listen to albums i rarely played before.


----------



## gerelmx1986

For those interested. What is found underside of DMP


----------



## Vamp898

gerelmx1986 said:


> For those interested. What is found underside of DMP


769? Wow, Sony is not selling a lot of these...

I mean they still made roughly 5-6 million income with them, but they made like more than 10x the money with the WM1Z


----------



## Vamp898

Rob49 said:


> As been said many times by ACTUAL OWNERS OF THE DMP-Z1 ( & not “renters” - I do find this odd, that you can find someone to “rent” this very expensive player, which is like gold dust, to even buy, now. ) that nothing else compares or even comes close to it !
> 
> With respect, you’re clearly not qualified to comment on how the 1AM2 sounds with the DMP, when you haven’t tried it. My observations are on reality, not fantasy.


Sony Store Berlin rents and sells these. You can just go there. But that's pretty much what the Sony Store is for, isn't it?

Sony Japan has these in every Sony Store and you can just buy these at e-earphone. It's in stock. You can just buy it online, right now. There are even used ones for 6000€.

They maybe rare where you live, but for sure not in Japan and Sony Store Germany also has these.

The DMP-Z1 is two AKM DAC with an Ti Amp + Sony's own capacitors.

It's not magic, Sony did nothing impossible. Except for the capacitors from Sony, you could build this device 1:1 yourself.

You can buy the Volume Knob, the cables, the DAC, the Amp, the batteries (Afair they are from Panasonic) you can buy everything except the capacitors at every Audio Wholesale. It would cost you roughly 2000€ + your work time.

https://tech.alpsalpine.com/prod/j/html/potentiometer/rotarypotentiometers/rk501/rk50114a0001.html

It's even an older model, you could upgrade your DMP-Z1 by buying the newest version of it. So even right now, it is not the best, there is room for improvement in this very second.

The AKM 4497 DAC is also outdated, it was succeeded by the AKM 4499 shortly after the DMP-Z1 was released (which is better in every aspect).

Just because it costs 9000€ doesn't mean it's the best. It is already outdated this very second. If Sony would create a new version and did nothing else but using new versions of the outdated components, it would already be better. So if Sony would want to, they could release an better version right away.

That my experience with this device differs from the owns who own it tells more and the prople who own it than me imho.

Also the highest fidelity sound that exists on this planet, scientifically proofen, is the THX AAA.

THX's patented error correction is the best that exists on this planet. You can have no better amp than THX AAA (if you want an flat/neutral sound!)

But if it is true what you say about the DMP-Z1 + MDR-1AM2, it's the worst headphones ever and the worst DAP ever.

First of all, it needs an 9000€ DAP to sound good (lol), second, Sonys marketing says it's worse than MDR-Z1R in every aspect, but actually, according to you, it's better. So wrong advertisement too.

It uses cheaper/worse materials. (The MDR-1AM2 is an cheaper version of the MDR-Z7M2 which is an cheaper version of the MDR-Z1R)

How bad is Sony in building headphones? I would for sure not trust a company that is building the worse headphone using the better materials.

Sony says it's worse, every review that exists says it's worse but one single guy on head-fi is sure, that it's better



Also who wants an DAP which sounds best with cheap budget headphones? I want an DAP that sounds best with my best Headphones. Of course I buy an DAP to drive m headphones. I do not buy headphones for my DAP.

I think there is no use in further continuing this discussion. You have your opinion, I have mine. There is no "truth" here.


----------



## MrWalkman (Nov 13, 2021)

Vamp898 said:


> It's not magic, Sony did nothing impossible. Except for the capacitors from Sony, you could build this device 1:1 yourself.



And except the software.

I am reiterating this, try the WM1A/Z firmware on an A55 (with the A55 stock kernel, so nothing is doing something not supposed to like you mentioned once), and you'll hear what I mean.

This is not just an opinion, by the way.


----------



## coolhand

Vamp898 said:


> There is no "truth" here.


I'll give you that much ..... 


P.S: A woman is more than just the sum of her parts


----------



## akãjerovia (Nov 13, 2021)

MrWalkman said:


> And except the software.
> 
> I am reiterating this, try the WM1A/Z firmware on an A55 (with the A55 stock kernel, so nothing is doing something not supposed to like you mentioned once), and you'll hear what I mean.
> 
> This is not just an opinion, by the way.



I can confirm this with the A45, i installed the 1Z firmware on it a couple of weeks ago, and i am very impressed with the improvement, it sounds more detailed and natural, and to have the tone control on the A45 is also a high point. Outstanding work once again @MrWalkman.

One question, i'm on the normal mode, is there a mode that consumes less battery?


----------



## MrWalkman

akãjerovia said:


> I can confirm this with the A45, i installed the 1Z firmware on it a couple of weeks ago, and i am very impressed with the improvement, it sounds more detailed and natural, and to have the tone control on the A45 is also a high point. Outstanding work once again @MrWalkman.
> 
> One question, i'm on the normal mode, is there a mode that consumes less battery?



Yes, you can get the same thing done for A45 and A35 too, as well as ZX300.

Plus v2 should consume the same, or a bit less. The difference is not that significant.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Vamp898 said:


> Sony Store Berlin rents and sells these. You can just go there. But that's pretty much what the Sony Store is for, isn't it?
> 
> Sony Japan has these in every Sony Store and you can just buy these at e-earphone. It's in stock. You can just buy it online, right now. There are even used ones for 6000€.
> 
> ...


The player i got it fot less than 9000€ .
So is obsolete the S-master in WM1A Wm1Z , the SA-z1 has the new GaN-FET S-Master
It is not juat buying the dac some cables and resistors and an Amp, it involves more than that. The software that controls the player. The design and layout of the Circuit board etc etc


----------



## Rob49

Vamp898 said:


> That my experience with this device differs from the owns who own it tells more and the prople who own it than me imho.
> 
> There is no "truth" here.



Have YOU any knowledge of Narcissistic Personality Disorder ??


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Have YOU any knowledge of Narcissistic Personality Disorder ??


He‘s driving me nuts seriously he talks always the same as a scratvhed record


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> He‘s driving me nuts seriously he talks always the same as a scratvhed record



As someone with a lifetime experience of N.P.D. the very best advice is to ignore them. When you respond, you give them the ”narcissist supply”, they ALL crave !


----------



## Halimj7

Any recommendations on a closed back that pairs well and maximizes the potential of the DMP-Z1 in balanced? Thanks.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Halimj7 said:


> Any recommendations on a closed back that pairs well and maximizes the potential of the DMP-Z1 in balanced? Thanks.


I vouch for MDR-Z1R but there are many others with included 4.4mm cables wuch as Senn HD820


----------



## gerelmx1986

This is the time my DMP takes to build a database every time i start it up. Ptoper term would be load the database as creation is already done since 0811


----------



## MrWalkman (Nov 14, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> This is the time my DMP takes to build a database every time i start it up. Ptoper term would be load the database as creation is already done since 0811



Yes, but while the player is off, you could take out the cards and put or remove music from them. The player can't know if you did that or not, so it has to scan the cards again.


----------



## gerelmx1986

MrWalkman said:


> Yes, but while the player is off, you could take out the cards and put or remove music from it. The player can't know if you did that or not, so it has to scan the cards again.


Pretty much what i dis to speed SENSME scan removed card from WM1A while off and put it back on after music center finished


----------



## MrWalkman

gerelmx1986 said:


> Pretty much what i dis to speed SENSME scan removed card from WM1A while off and put it back on after music center finished



Yeah, so the database scanning also checks for SensMe data, etc.


----------



## Halimj7

gerelmx1986 said:


> I vouch for MDR-Z1R but there are many others with included 4.4mm cables wuch as Senn HD820


Thanks. Anyone try the HD820?


----------



## gerelmx1986




----------



## gerelmx1986

At the end of the week i  clocked 43:32  and soundright now like a fully burned WM1A on steroids


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> At the end of the week i  clocked 43:32  and soundright now like a fully burned WM1A on steroids



Never owned a WM1A, but an apt description !

( Clocked up 740. 05 with another 12 days to go till 4 months. )

My ZX300 has clocked up 638.21 in something like 3 & a half years.


----------



## purk

Halimj7 said:


> Thanks. Anyone try the HD820?


Yes, the HD820 sounds great on the DMP.  The extra power and warmer tonal balanced really make the Senn to sound great on it.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I have a Sony vaio laptop from 2014 its charger is also compatible with DMP-Z1. Prior to testing i checked both chargers
DMP Charger 19.5V 2.35A
VAIO Charger 19.5V 2.3A

Both have SAME POLARITY that is putside the connector pin aka jacket MINUS and the inner pin PLUS


----------



## gerelmx1986

Figqro figeo


----------



## gerelmx1986




----------



## gerelmx1986

Does DSD Remastering affect DSD files too? Dfor example a 2.8MHz will be upsampled as 5.6MHz?


----------



## gerelmx1986

I am not liking DSD remastering on top of DSD tracks. As it removemos some spatial cues and makes them sounds  flat.

Works best with PCM files, DSD i deactivate DSD remastering


----------



## Halimj7

Has anyone heard the DMP-Z1 with the Ultrasone Edition 15?! Wow this is an amazing combo!


----------



## Rob49 (Nov 20, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> I am not liking DSD remastering on top of DSD tracks. As it removemos some spatial cues and makes them sounds  flat.
> 
> Works best with PCM files, DSD i deactivate DSD remastering



When I first tried my DMP I used upsampled DSD files & I was so disappointed, thinking I had really wasted my money, but thankfully just ripping my CD’s without upsampling & using the DSD Remastering, my money hasn’t been wasted.

It just didn’t sound right at all & logically, I wouldn’t expect it to.

I haven’t tried since, disabling the DSD RE. I know doubt will, but of course my files have been upsampled using media softwear & are not true native DSD files.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> When I first tried my DMP I used upsampled DSD files & I was so disappointed, thinking I had really wasted my money, but thankfully just ripping my CD’s without upsampling & using the DSD Remastering, my money hasn’t been wasted.
> 
> It just didn’t sound right at all & logically, I wouldn’t expect it to.
> 
> I haven’t tried since, disabling the DSD RE. I know doubt will, but of course my files have been upsampled using media softwear & are not true native DSD files.


The  DMP-Z1 has fullfiled the wishes of o ning a device that can have all my tracks in one place. I always wanted either a HAP-S1 or a HAP-Z1ES. When i finally had thwonwy they were already diacontinued


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> The  DMP-Z1 has fullfiled the wishes of o ning a device that can have all my tracks in one place. I always wanted either a HAP-S1 or a HAP-Z1ES. When i finally had thwonwy they were already diacontinued



I bought the HAP-S1 when they came out. Still enjoy it, great for speaker listening, but true what you say, DMP-Z1 meets every need, from listening experience, certainly headphone use & that all your music is on one device, just like the HAP-S1, but of course you can’t move that around & sound wise nothing compares.


----------



## gerelmx1986

There are two options that are on the Waterman and  WM1A that are not available under DMP-Z1: One of them is the checkbox to play native   Direct Stream digital files on the 4.4  the other option is a beeping thing and I’ll tone it is also not availabe


----------



## gerelmx1986




----------



## pdL389

....trying to figure out the relevance to DMP....


----------



## gerelmx1986

pdL389 said:


> ....trying to figure out the relevance to DMP....


What do you mean?


----------



## gerelmx1986

so it means it has no volume cap right?


----------



## MrWalkman

gerelmx1986 said:


> so it means it has no volume cap right?



It's not about the sound pressure thing, it's about the region.

On the smaller portable players, CEW2 is a regiom which has a volume cap.


----------



## gerelmx1986

MrWalkman said:


> It's not about the sound pressure thing, it's about the region.
> 
> On the smaller portable players, CEW2 is a regiom which has a volume cap.


Ok i hace high gain so it has bo cap


----------



## gerelmx1986

MrWalkman said:


> It's not about the sound pressure thing, it's about the region.
> 
> On the smaller portable players, CEW2 is a regiom which has a volume cap.


Shall o change the rwgion? Which do you recommend? E or J


----------



## MrWalkman

gerelmx1986 said:


> Ok i hace high gain so it has bo cap





gerelmx1986 said:


> Shall o change the rwgion? Which do you recommend? E or J



The DMP might already have no cap to begin with.

Regarding regions, it's a matter of taste. I would try J if I wanted to try changing the region.


----------



## Vamp898

gerelmx1986 said:


> Shall o change the rwgion? Which do you recommend? E or J


The DMP-Z1 does not fall under the law the Walkman fall under. It is registered as an stationary device and so it does not have the volume cap. So you don't need to do anything.


----------



## gerelmx1986

CEW2 region sounds so clean with the bass as J, with the added bonus of more details (not so polite as J)


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 22, 2021)

Really? I think i have to rent the DMP-Z1 one more time. I never tested changing the Region Code 

because it doesn't have the limiter, i haven't thought about it. I only used it with CEW2 but i use all my other Sony Gear with J

I changed the Region Code on my WM1Z (it was an EU Model) and the region code of the WM1A (it was a Japanese Model. changed it to CEW2 so i could change it to german and than back to J to remove the limiter) but it never changed the sound on those two.

I would never have expected that it would have any influence on the DMP-Z1, but now im curious to find out


----------



## gerelmx1986

phonomat said:


> You certainly have a point, but let's not forget that while these $5K+ are very much a hard fact, the 5% aren't. They are just a) one man's opinion and b) a rough guesstimate at most that should not be taken literally. Basically, since we have no way of actually measuring these things (as they're not only subjective but also not quantifiable), they're basically just a way of saying, in my mind, it's pretty close, and nothing else. Personally, I try not to throw around numbers like that because they're too often taken as gospel, thus spawning a new narrative ("They say the DMP-Z1 is just 5 % better than the WM-1Z"), which is not really helpful, but perhaps they can help others to get a basic feel for at least a perceived difference of things.
> 
> That being said, I still don't really know what to make of my own DMP-Z1. At times, it totally wows me, and then again, it will leave me more or less cold. I haven't yet worked out all of the contributing variables. It certainly seems to have something to do with quality of the music files, but it does not seem limited to that. Will have to do more listening and determining; so far I have just a measly 24 hours on my unit, as work is plentiful and listening time more or less restricted to nights.
> 
> I do, however, have a problem. When the DMP-Z1 is plugged in, I hear a humming noise via the IER-Z1 that I don't perceive with the MDR-Z1. At first I thought it was just due to the IER-Z1R being more sensitive, but the strange thing is that the humming disappears as soon as I touch either the power cable, the IEM's cable or the unit itself. Is anyone else experiencing this? Could it be some sort of grounds related problem? If so, shouldn't it be perceivable on the MDR-Z1R as well? It only seems to be an issue when the power cable is plugged in. (Sorry, I'm a total tech dyslexic, if that was not apparent.) Strangely, I'm almost sure that I didn't hear it in the first couple of hours, despite the unit loading while I listened. I remember being excited about the deeply black background, and now this is ruining the experience a bit. It's not really audible while music is playing, but quite apparent during very quiet passages or between songs, and to be honest, it annoys me quite a bit. Anyone have an idea what could be happening? TIA!


Did you fix your problem? Just curious. Mine is working fine.  Bisher alles gut mit dem DMP


----------



## efftee

As more DSD music are now available in higher resolution, 512 or even 1024fs, I’ve recently bought some 512fs tracks, which don’t play on the DMP-Z1, yet my other 'lower' DAPs can handle. Probably a dumb question but is decoding higher DSD files a software or hardware thing? If the former, could it be enabled through firmware upgrade?


----------



## gerelmx1986

efftee said:


> As more DSD music are now available in higher resolution, 512 or even 1024fs, I’ve recently bought some 512fs tracks, which don’t play on the DMP-Z1, yet my other 'lower' DAPs can handle. Probably a dumb question but is decoding higher DSD files a software or hardware thing? If the former, could it be enabled through firmware upgrade?


Id it both, SW and HW thing. The AKM33””4497 supports max 245


----------



## Halimj7

Vamp898 said:


> Really? I think i have to rent the DMP-Z1 one more time. I never tested changing the Region Code
> 
> because it doesn't have the limiter, i haven't thought about it. I only used it with CEW2 but i use all my other Sony Gear with J
> 
> ...


Where do you rent gear?


----------



## Vamp898

Halimj7 said:


> Where do you rent gear?


Sony Gear? At the Sony Store.


----------



## pdL389

Vamp898 said:


> Sony Gear? At the Sony Store.


Would you be so kind and provide the link to that store? Thanks!


----------



## Vamp898

pdL389 said:


> Would you be so kind and provide the link to that store? Thanks!


Uhm? To the Sony store? Sure

https://www.sony.de/sonystoreberlin

But it wouldn't had been that hard to find that yourself^^ not that I mind posting that link, just wondering. It's not like a hidden secret place of something, it's the official Sony Store from Sony.

But you have to pay at least a deposit via Credit Card and be registered as an customer there. I think there are no other fees, just that you know.


----------



## pdL389

Vamp898 said:


> Uhm? To the Sony store? Sure
> 
> https://www.sony.de/sonystoreberlin
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info! Back in 2016 Sony phased out all of their remaining 10 retail stores in the US. Quite unfortunate! Not only are you lucky to have Sony retail store(s) in Germany but also you are able to rent equipment from them, which is the services I do not recall to have been ever offered in the States.


----------



## Vamp898

pdL389 said:


> Thanks for the info! Back in 2016 Sony phased out all of their remaining 10 retail stores in the US. Quite unfortunate! Not only are you lucky to have Sony retail store(s) in Germany but also you are able to rent equipment from them, which is the services I do not recall to have been ever offered in the States.


Wow! That is sad to hear, and i thought germany was doing bad in terms of Sony. We only have one single store and its shrinking in size every year. I don't know how long it will stay here.

They just recently opened a brand new shiny store in Japan... so Japan does have 5 now.

But this pretty much shows Sonys future intention to be honest. Sony seems to sell more gear in Japan than in ROW

Even though we haven an Sony Store in Germany, you can only buy the DMP-Z1 right now (lol)

There is no
- XBA-N1 (Also not available at other stores)
- XBA-N3 (Also not available at other stores)
- XBA-Z5 (afair never existed in germany)
- IER-M7 (never existed in germany)
- IER-M9 (never existed in germany)
- IER-Z1R (Also not available at other stores)
- MDR-Z1R
- NW-WM1A (since more than a year)
- NW-WM1Z
- TA-ZH1ES

So you can only buy Headphones from the 1000X series and below and the MDR-1AM2 and the MDR-Z7M2

I bought my MDR-Z1R there, but it was one single unit only and it took over an year to get it because, officially, the Sony Store no longer gets these Items.

IER-Z1R is sold out everywhere in germany, since like a year and MDR-Z1R can be bought at a few selection locations like hifiklubben, but thats it.

So if you like Sony and you're living in germany, you're pretty much forced into importing because new walkmans like the ZX507 have the volume cap you can't remove.

I think the only reason we have an Sony Store here in germany is the Sony Center building complex with its Mt. Fuji like roof. Maybe they don't want to run the Sony Center without having at least a small Sony Store inside

https://www.google.com/search?q=Son...hUKEwj4koDqgLP0AhXH_rsIHTZ8CfcQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw

Its an famous building here in germany (and especially Berlin).

I think renting is not an advertised service, they do it for customers they know and want to keep. I think if an stranger who never bought something would ask to rent the DMP-Z1, they would not allow it.


----------



## Rob49

4 months in, 862 hours now. ( 307 hours in the last month - breaking personal records for the month. )

It’s addictive, audio heaven !


----------



## The1Signature

Rob49 said:


> 307 hours in the last month


10 hours a day... this is like serious business / like having a full-time job :-D


----------



## Rob49

lara said:


> 10 hours a day... this is like serious business / like having a full-time job :-D



I tell you, it’s actually beginning to feel like that…..but it’s not a bad job to have !


----------



## The1Signature

- i believe that - can i join your company? 🙃


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> 4 months in, 862 hours now. ( 307 hours in the last month - breaking personal records for the month. )
> 
> It’s addictive, audio heaven !


----------



## gerelmx1986

When @Currawong  thinks fiio M17 is huge…


----------



## Halimj7

I’m shocked the DMP-Z1 doesn’t get more attention. Chord products get so much attention yet when I compared 
the TT2 to the DMP-Z1 it was no contest. The DMP-Z1 was superior in every way and it is a complete package.


----------



## The1Signature

Halimj7 said:


> I’m shocked the DMP-Z1 doesn’t get more attention. Chord products get so much attention yet when I compared
> the TT2 to the DMP-Z1 it was no contest. The DMP-Z1 was superior in every way and it is a complete package.


absolutely agree... i tried differed devices from friends... like sp2000 etc... but once you know how dmp-z1 sounds... ANY dap is like sweet little joke


----------



## gerelmx1986

lara said:


> absolutely agree... i tried differed devices from friends... like sp2000 etc... but once you know how dmp-z1 sounds... ANY dap is like sweet little joke


Agree with this. DMP-Z1 is very Realiatic hell… it takes you to the recording session Wow. The exact poaitioning of elements and separations. The most subtle details… every nuance, every reverb and reflection of yhe sound wow


----------



## Halimj7 (Nov 28, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> Agree with this. DMP-Z1 is very Realiatic hell… it takes you to the recording session Wow. The exact poaitioning of elements and separations. The most subtle details… every nuance, every reverb and reflection of yhe sound wow


You need to try out with the Ultrasone Ed15! Amazing


----------



## gerelmx1986

I am wondering how many DMP-Z1s has sony made till now and how many from these sold that are in the wild


----------



## The1Signature

you might ask the support?!


----------



## gerelmx1986

New qobuz purchase Frescobaldi unpublished works for Harpsichord and organ


----------



## Rob49 (Nov 29, 2021)

It’s happened again…..I switched off my player last night, smack on 877.00 hours played. I’ve listened to 9 tracks so far this morning, unplugged the player & moved to my lounge & it’s gone back to where I switched off last night, with time & song. I must have clocked up 2 + hours now, that has been wiped off.

I wonder what is causing this ??

Perhaps it can’t cope with 13 hours of play in a day ?? ( & then another 9 hours…)


----------



## MrWalkman

Rob49 said:


> It’s happened again…..I switched off my player last night, smack on 877.00 hours played. I’ve listened to 9 tracks so far this morning, unplugged the player & moved to my lounge & it’s gone back to where I switched off last night, with time & song. I must have clocked up 2 + hours now, that has been wiped off.
> 
> I wonder what is causing this ??
> 
> Perhaps it can’t cope with 13 hours of play in a day ?? ( & then another 9 hours…)



I have no idea exactly what's happening in your case.

On the Walkman OS, settings are first saved in RAM, then they're usually written to "disk" when you turn off the screen on Axx/ZX300/WM1A/Z players. For example, if you change a setting and then you forcefully restart the player, the settings won't have a chance to actually get saved, so the player won't remember the changed setting after that forced restart.


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 29, 2021)

Halimj7 said:


> I’m shocked the DMP-Z1 doesn’t get more attention. Chord products get so much attention yet when I compared
> the TT2 to the DMP-Z1 it was no contest. The DMP-Z1 was superior in every way and it is a complete package.


Here are 4 reasons

9000mW @ 16Ω vs 1500mW @ 16Ω
Made in Britain vs Made in Malaysia
Exotic Hardware vs off-the-shelves
5500€ vs 9000€
That should pretty much explain it.


----------



## The1Signature

Vamp898 said:


> Here are 4 reasons
> 
> 9000mW @ 16Ω vs 1500mW @ 16Ω
> Made in Britain vs Made in Malaysia
> ...


this pretty much sums it up, actually.


----------



## Rob49 (Nov 29, 2021)

MrWalkman said:


> I have no idea exactly what's happening in your case.
> 
> On the Walkman OS, settings are first saved in RAM, then they're usually written to "disk" when you turn off the screen on Axx/ZX300/WM1A/Z players. For example, if you change a setting and then you forcefully restart the player, the settings won't have a chance to actually get saved, so the player won't remember the changed setting after that forced restart.



Thanks for your reply. I tend to leave settings & everything as it is & switch off in the same manner each time. Perhaps I should wait a little longer before I unplug ?

Perhaps I should just let it automatically switch off, rather than powering off, as I think you’re indicating ? I.e. not forcefully restarting the player.

It’s really messing up my true hours played, which is annoying, if I had O.C.D. ( Perhaps I do ! ?? )


----------



## Halimj7 (Nov 29, 2021)

lara said:


> this pretty much sums it up, actually.


Are you saying the TT2 is made of exotic hardware??? The DMP Z1 is made of gold.


----------



## MrWalkman

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for your reply. I tend to leave settings & everything as it is & switch off in the same manner each time. Perhaps I should wait a little longer before I unplug ?
> 
> Perhaps I should just let it automatically switch off, rather than powering off, as I think you’re indicating ? I.e. not forcefully restarting the player.
> 
> It’s really messing up my true hours played, which is annoying, if I had O.C.D. ( Perhaps I do ! ?? )



Maybe try turning off the screen for about 30 seconds of so before doing anything you suspect might have something to do with hours not being saved.

Of course, for BT receiver or USB DAC mode hours will not be counted.


----------



## Vamp898 (Nov 29, 2021)

Halimj7 said:


> Are you saying the TT2 is made of exotic hardware??? The DMP Z1 is made of gold.


Exotic Hardware means something that is developed by the creator of the device, not that it uses rare earths.

The Volume Knob from the DMP-Z1 is from Alps, the DAC is from AKM and the Amp is from Ti and the Cables are from Kimber. Its not developed by Sony, Sony bought it and put it into the DMP-Z1. That is why those components are not considered exotic, which is unrelated to if Alps, AKM or Ti use exotic materials in their products.

The Volume Knob is made of brass by the way, its just gold plated. That is actually important because you can destroy the gold coating by not cleaning it due to oxidation.


----------



## The1Signature

Vamp898 said:


> The Volume Knob is made of brass by the way, its just gold plated. That is actually important because you can destroy the gold coating by not cleaning it due to oxidation.


i didn't know that. good to know.


----------



## Halimj7

Vamp898 said:


> Exotic Hardware means something that is developed by the creator of the device, not that it uses rare earths.
> 
> The Volume Knob from the DMP-Z1 is from Alps, the DAC is from AKM and the Amp is from Ti and the Cables are from Kimber. Its not developed by Sony, Sony bought it and put it into the DMP-Z1. That is why those components are not considered exotic, which is unrelated to if Alps, AKM or Ti use exotic materials in their products.
> 
> The Volume Knob is made of brass by the way, its just gold plated. That is actually important because you can destroy the gold coating by not cleaning it due to oxidation.


Ok good point. I still think the DMP-Z1 is built better and what about the sound? Having owned both I would choose the DMP-Z1 as a better functioning and sounding device. TT2 really overrated. I would even choose the TA-Z1hes over it; by your definition it has ”exotic hardware”.


----------



## Rob49

MrWalkman said:


> Maybe try turning off the screen for about 30 seconds of so before doing anything you suspect might have something to do with hours not being saved.
> 
> Of course, for BT receiver or USB DAC mode hours will not be counted.



Thanks, I’ll give that a go. I’m going to be vigilant to check the hours now, each time I start to play the device, but of course if it goes plays back from where I left off the night before, then it doesn’t matter how vigilant I am !


----------



## Vamp898

Halimj7 said:


> Ok good point. I still think the DMP-Z1 is built better and what about the sound? Having owned both I would choose the DMP-Z1 as a better functioning and sounding device. TT2 really overrated. I would even choose the TA-Z1hes over it; by your definition it has ”exotic hardware”.


TA-ZH1ES counts as exotic, yes.

Not everyone likes every sound. I for example do enjoy achromatic amps because they often provide much higher technical performance, but a lot of people don't. 

The best Amp is worth nothing if you don't like the sound.


----------



## efftee

Vamp898 said:


> Exotic Hardware means something that is developed by the creator of the device, not that it uses rare earths.
> 
> The Volume Knob from the DMP-Z1 is from Alps, the DAC is from AKM and the Amp is from Ti and the Cables are from Kimber. Its not developed by Sony, Sony bought it and put it into the DMP-Z1. That is why those components are not considered exotic, which is unrelated to if Alps, AKM or Ti use exotic materials in their products.


Can I suggest better definitions? Chord is founded and made by passionate engineers, I'd call that _artisan_, while DMP-Z1, being from the Sony conglomerate, is _niche commercial market_.

Doesn't make either better or worse. FWIW, I didn't think Chord is getting more attention than Sony, brand or models, in a blanket sort of way. Each has its own fan base; if you are hearing more noise from either camp, it just means you are in their stadium!



Vamp898 said:


> The Volume Knob is made of brass by the way, its just gold plated. That is actually important because you can destroy the gold coating by not cleaning it due to oxidation.


Thanks for the nugget!


----------



## nanaholic (Nov 30, 2021)

Vamp898 said:


> Exotic Hardware means something that is developed by the creator of the device, not that it uses rare earths.
> 
> The Volume Knob from the DMP-Z1 is from Alps, the DAC is from AKM and the Amp is from Ti and the Cables are from Kimber. Its not developed by Sony, Sony bought it and put it into the DMP-Z1. That is why those components are not considered exotic, which is unrelated to if Alps, AKM or Ti use exotic materials in their products.
> 
> The Volume Knob is made of brass by the way, its just gold plated. That is actually important because you can destroy the gold coating by not cleaning it due to oxidation.



While the volume knob of the DMP-Z1 is based on the RK501 it is a fully customised part requested by Sony and is not available as an OEM part from Alps, in fact with the collaboration the people at Alps wanted to use the know-how gained from the customisation in their own parts. And no it's not just brass plus gold plated, it's actually brass plated with copper and then plated with gold - a method Sony used while making the WM1Z which Alps didn't for the stock RK501. Also the Kimber Kable used in the Sony devices are more like Sony made with technology licensed from Kimber rather than straight from Kimber themselves.

https://www.sony.jp/feature/products/181101/?s_pid=jp_audio_product_201811_feature_1

EDIT: Also I must add that there's nothing exotic about the Chord Hugo TT2 hardware - the Chord magic lies in Rob Watt's D to A software, the FPGA chip used in Chord products are "off the shelf" just as well (a common Xilinx FPGA chip which anyone can purchase, but is useless as a DAC since, well, you don't have Rob Watt's source code). If you count custom D to A/signal resampling software as exotic, then Sony's own inhouse DSD remastering engine (remember, DSD is created by Sony) in the DMP-Z1 would qualify it as being "exotic" as well.

EDIT2: Also the knob on the outside of the device is just a cosmetic cap which is plastic with the gold plating - it's not actually the Alps knob which is fully housed inside the device. So you can't actually clean the actual RK501 custom volume knob FWIW.


----------



## gerelmx1986

At least Alps and AKM are japanese . There’s a reason why sony went AKM and not american DACs (sabre and cirrus) which sound bad to my ears.
They do use TI TPA which is better than your typically used OPA (op amp)


----------



## Rob49

nanaholic said:


> EDIT: Also I must add that there's nothing exotic about the Chord Hugo TT2 hardware - the Chord magic lies in Rob Watt's D to A software, the FPGA chip used in Chord products are "off the shelf" just as well (a common Xilinx FPGA chip which anyone can purchase, but is useless as a DAC since, well, you don't have Rob Watt's source code). If you count custom D to A/signal resampling software as exotic, then Sony's own inhouse DSD remastering engine (remember, DSD is created by Sony) in the DMP-Z1 would qualify it as being "exotic" as well.



This is why the DMP-Z1 is so unique & no other product could possibly sound the same, whether that’s Chord or anyone. The key really is the DSD Remastering engine.

I’ve said time & time again, if you’re a collector of multi channel SACD’s ( or DVD-A’s ) the DMP-Z1 is actually replicating those. Now being able to hear that separation in headphone listening is truly amazing !

When I’ve listened to my SACD / DVD-A collections I’ve always thought, “What if I could have that resolution in my head & ears” ? & now I have. Talking of my head, I was listening to a song the other day, I can’t recall what the song was now ? I was sitting here, or I should say reclining here & if my head had been replaced by the planet Saturn, you know, the one with the rings, I could have imagined there was a ring placed around my head & the sound travelled around the rings. It was quite an amazing audio experience & quite bizarre. If I could have put that moment on a loop, I think I would have gone dizzy !

Anyway, those are just my personal experiences & thoughts, of this truly unique player.


----------



## Halimj7

Why no comparisons between the DMP-Z1 and Chord Dave? They seem like they have similar natural/neutral tonality.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Like what happened to @Rob49  i lost two hours i had like 137:40 and tpday i switch it on and displays 135


----------



## Rob49 (Dec 4, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> Like what happened to @Rob49  i lost two hours i had like 137:40 and tpday i switch it on and displays 135



As I’ve posted in recent weeks & this past week, this has happened to me twice now. I’ve lost 2 - 3 hours in total. See @MrWalkman ’s post / thoughts about this. I’m not going to power off my DMP anymore. Just let it shut down on it’s own. It’s been ok so far.


----------



## gerelmx1986

In the last couple of days ive been using exclusively the MDR-Z1R  as i got a cold and i dear forgetting thqt i hqve an IEM on my eqrs and blowing my nose with qn IEM on the eqrs will damage my ear drums.

And the sound quality is amazing very larg and holographic soundstage and reference sound with good trwble extension and a clean bass that rhumps


----------



## MrWalkman

Rob49 said:


> As I’ve posted in recent weeks & this past week, this has happened to me twice now. I’ve lost 2 - 3 hours in total. See @MrWalkman ’s post / thoughts about this. I’m not going to power off my DMP anymore. Just let it shut down on it’s own. It’s been ok so far.



Just turn the screen off for about 15-30 seconds before doing anything like seemingly disconnecting the AC source, like you did last time.


----------



## Rob49

MrWalkman said:


> Just turn the screen off for about 15-30 seconds before doing anything like seemingly disconnecting the AC source, like you did last time.



For now I skipped that step, just to see how it goes. If it still happens, I’ll do as you suggest. It seems that @gerelmx1986 has had the same issue. I think it is very likely happening because of powering off too soon & switching back on too soon ??


----------



## The1Signature

gerelmx1986 said:


> In the last couple of days ive been using exclusively the MDR-Z1R  as i got a cold and i dear forgetting thqt i hqve an IEM on my eqrs and blowing my nose with qn IEM on the eqrs will damage my ear drums.
> 
> And the sound quality is amazing very larg and holographic soundstage and reference sound with good trwble extension and a clean bass that rhumps


i think you meant IER-Z1R ?


----------



## MrWalkman

Rob49 said:


> For now I skipped that step, just to see how it goes. If it still happens, I’ll do as you suggest. It seems that @gerelmx1986 has had the same issue. I think it is very likely happening because of powering off too soon & switching back on too soon ??



No idea honestly, I just know that settings (including hours played) are saved usually when turning off the screen (after about 15-30 seconds), or when turning off the player.


----------



## Rob49

lara said:


> i think you meant IER-Z1R ?



I wondered that to ? I really don’t like the Z1R’s a good match. As I’ve said, my Sony 1AM2’s sound amazing. I can’t tolerate in ear phones.


----------



## Rob49

MrWalkman said:


> No idea honestly, I just know that settings (including hours played) are saved usually when turning off the screen (after about 15-30 seconds), or when turning off the player.



Thanks again…..if I’m being honest I was just too idle to switch off the display lol


----------



## The1Signature

Rob49 said:


> I wondered that to ? I really don’t like the Z1R’s a good match. As I’ve said, my Sony 1AM2’s sound amazing. I can’t tolerate in ear phones.


sony used the same end part of the name for 2 different earphones, "Z1R"  - not a good idea?! - have seen so many forums where they write about the "Z1R" but while the one goes down into the MDR over ear discussion, the other was discussing the IER :-D - and this came out later like after 40x back and forth 🙃


----------



## Vamp898

gerelmx1986 said:


> At least Alps and AKM are japanese . There’s a reason why sony went AKM and not american DACs (sabre and cirrus) which sound bad to my ears.
> They do use TI TPA which is better than your typically used OPA (op amp)


Sony uses ESS DACs in pretty much all other of its products including the PHA-3


----------



## Rob49

lara said:


> sony used the same end part of the name for 2 different earphones, "Z1R"  - not a good idea?! - have seen so many forums where they write about the "Z1R" but while the one goes down into the MDR over ear discussion, the other was discussing the IER :-D - and this came out later like after 40x back and forth 🙃



Sorry, I normally type Sony MDR-Z1R but i’m in lazy mode…..


----------



## Vamp898

nanaholic said:


> While the volume knob of the DMP-Z1 is based on the RK501 it is a fully customised part requested by Sony and is not available as an OEM part from Alps, in fact with the collaboration the people at Alps wanted to use the know-how gained from the customisation in their own parts. And no it's not just brass plus gold plated, it's actually brass plated with copper and then plated with gold - a method Sony used while making the WM1Z which Alps didn't for the stock RK501. Also the Kimber Kable used in the Sony devices are more like Sony made with technology licensed from Kimber rather than straight from Kimber themselves.
> 
> https://www.sony.jp/feature/products/181101/?s_pid=jp_audio_product_201811_feature_1
> 
> ...


Fully customised? Really? The linked article states that they tried to customize it and failed because the original one sounded the best and so they gave up. Maybe we have different definitions of "Fully Customised". For me, doing minor adjustments that doesn't matter to be able to implement it in the device is not fully customised.

And yes the Kimber Cable is just Co Engineering by Kimber but what is the point here?

This really is nitpicking the hard level and why do discussions about the DMP-Z1 always feel like I'm discussing with an religious cult.

Sony buys the DAC, the Amp and the volume knob of the shelve and your argument is "But Chord bought the FPGA". What level of arguing is this?

It's just a music player, gosh. It's not a holy grail. There are devices that measure better and if you prefer achromatic amps, there are devices that sound better too.

Just because it sells for 9000€ doesn't mean it's the best. The high MSRP doesn't make it sound better



> So you can't actually clean the actual RK501 custom volume knob FWIW


Still people please clean the gold coating or it will deteriorate.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> For now I skipped that step, just to see how it goes. If it still happens, I’ll do as you suggest. It seems that @gerelmx1986 has had the same issue. I think it is very likely happening because of powering off too soon & switching back on too soon ??


So i powered ich do n after selevting the albim to play next day (today€ and n fo the the greem light po the red nack on i diwconnected the AC source to store the player on hos case


----------



## Rob49 (Dec 4, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> So i powered ich do n after selevting the albim to play next day (today€ and n fo the the greem light po the red nack on i diwconnected the AC source to store the player on hos case



Yes, as I’ve said I’m just letting the player shut down itself, before then unplugging the power cable.

( The Narc’s back - they always come back, time & again. )


----------



## pdL389

Does anyone have any experience with paring Hifiman Susvara and DMP-Z1? I am thinking of Susvara as an upgrade to my HE1000V2.  I am willing to travel across the US to audition Susvara if someone knows a store that has it currently on display.


----------



## Nostoi

Vamp898 said:


> This really is nitpicking the hard level and why do discussions about the DMP-Z1 always feel like I'm discussing with an religious cult.


The reasons are twofold.

1. To spend 9k on portable unit involves an act of devotion to the Sony brand which is analogous to being a cult member (because, after all, you're not paying for sound performance but for being peak Sony).
2. This commitment carries with it anxiety about whether the chosen path is the correct one. To fend off buyer's remorse, a certain degree of psychological gymastatics are required, which manifests itself as defensive behaviour.

The results: thorny users.


----------



## efftee

Nostoi said:


> The reasons are twofold.
> 
> 1. To spend 9k on portable unit involves an act of devotion to the Sony brand which is analogous to being a cult member (because, after all, you're not paying for sound performance but for being peak Sony).
> 2. This commitment carries with it anxiety about whether the chosen path is the correct one. To fend off buyer's remorse, a certain degree of psychological gymastatics are required, which manifests itself as defensive behaviour.
> ...


Please do not presume to judge every DMP-Z1 owner as such; frankly, it’s quite offensive. There will always be fan boys, doesn’t matter the brand, model, even object, living or dead! Equally, there will also always be trolls. When passionate people clash over subjective matters, it is inevitable for fanaticism and maturity, in inverse ratio, to show up in the conversation. Nothing wrong with that, always something to be learned.


----------



## Rob49

Nostoi said:


> The reasons are twofold.
> 
> 1. To spend 9k on portable unit involves an act of devotion to the Sony brand which is analogous to being a cult member (because, after all, you're not paying for sound performance but for being peak Sony).
> 2. This commitment carries with it anxiety about whether the chosen path is the correct one. To fend off buyer's remorse, a certain degree of psychological gymastatics are required, which manifests itself as defensive behaviour.
> ...



I’m not sure if you’re being supportive or critical of the “narcissist rental user” or the people that actually own & enjoy the device ??


----------



## Rob49

efftee said:


> Please do not presume to judge every DMP-Z1 owner as such; frankly, it’s quite offensive. There will always be fan boys, doesn’t matter the brand, model, even object, living or dead! Equally, there will also always be trolls. When passionate people clash over subjective matters, it is inevitable for fanaticism and maturity, in inverse ratio, to show up in the conversation. Nothing wrong with that, always something to be learned.



Trolls & Narc’s are two very different characters. The first is just that, the latter cannot & will not learn.


----------



## efftee

Rob49 said:


> Trolls & Narc’s are two very different characters. The first is just that, the latter cannot & will not learn.


I’d never say never; prefer to believe everyone grows up, sooner or later, whether they want to admit it (publicly) or not.


----------



## Rob49

efftee said:


> I’d never say never; prefer to believe everyone grows up, sooner or later, whether they want to admit it (publicly) or not.



A troll can, but a Narc can’t, as I said.


----------



## sanguineburrito (Dec 5, 2021)

pdL389 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with paring Hifiman Susvara and DMP-Z1? I am thinking of Susvara as an upgrade to my HE1000V2.  I am willing to travel across the US to audition Susvara if someone knows a store that has it currently on display.


DMP can not drive Susvara. At the store,  I connected DMP to cayin HA-300 via 3.5mm to RCA, then susvara via SE. i had to turn DMP close to max (high gain) and HA-300 to 3 oclock (medium gain) to get to my normal listening volume. I think LCD5 would be a better match with DMP.


----------



## Nostoi

efftee said:


> Please do not presume to judge every DMP-Z1 owner as such; frankly, it’s quite offensive. There will always be fan boys, doesn’t matter the brand, model, even object, living or dead! Equally, there will also always be trolls. When passionate people clash over subjective matters, it is inevitable for fanaticism and maturity, in inverse ratio, to show up in the conversation. Nothing wrong with that, always something to be learned.





Rob49 said:


> I’m not sure if you’re being supportive or critical of the “narcissist rental user” or the people that actually own & enjoy the device ??


I'm not making any kind of of judgement nor am I defending, criticising, or for that matter supporting anyone. How people spend their own money is their own business.

I was simply making the observation that this particular Sony unit occupies a unique position in the audio world because its price is so incommensurate with its performance (which is not to say it performs badly) that the decision to buy one is, yes, based in part on audio, but also a set of other factors outside of audio quality (I.e., branding, the legacy of Sony as a name, the "luxury" cosmetics, the kudos factor, etc).

The only vaguely contentious point I'd make is that while all brands attract fan boys, Sony is perhaps especially prone to this because of its historic lineage and also because people can be snobby about Sony as a consumerist brand.


----------



## Nostoi

Rob49 said:


> A troll can, but a Narc can’t, as I said.


As an aside - genuine curiosity - I've not heard the term "Narc" since 1987 in the US. How has it come into everyday lingo in West Midlands of all places?


----------



## efftee

Nostoi said:


> I'm not making any kind of of judgement nor am I defending, criticising, or for that matter supporting anyone. How people spend their own money is their own business.
> 
> I was simply making the observation that this particular Sony unit occupies a unique position in the audio world because its price is so incommensurate with its performance (which is not to say it performs badly) that the decision to buy one is, yes, based in part on audio, but also a set of other factors outside of audio quality (I.e., branding, the legacy of Sony as a name, the "luxury" cosmetics, the kudos factor, etc).
> 
> The only vaguely contentious point I'd make is that while all brands attract fan boys, Sony is perhaps especially prone to this because of its historic lineage and also because people can be snobby about Sony as a consumerist brand.



And you are being presumptuous again. In my opinion (and experience), the DMP-Z1 is great value in comparison with the Bartok; you’d really have to go up to the Rossini, at the least, for dCS, and though I have not heard the Soulution rigs, I hear from audiophile friends at least Series 5, which, in their books, is much better value!

FWIW, I think the DMP-Z1 is as good as it gets FOR HEADFI, particularly IEMS, can’t speak for headphones, don’t do those. Anything more than that is like using a laser to shoot a fly! My fly swatter Sony gets the job done — nothing to brag or crow about.


----------



## Rob49

Nostoi said:


> I'm not making any kind of of judgement nor am I defending, criticising, or for that matter supporting anyone. How people spend their own money is their own business.
> 
> I was simply making the observation that this particular Sony unit occupies a unique position in the audio world because its price is so incommensurate with its performance (which is not to say it performs badly) that the decision to buy one is, yes, based in part on audio, but also a set of other factors outside of audio quality (I.e., branding, the legacy of Sony as a name, the "luxury" cosmetics, the kudos factor, etc).
> 
> The only vaguely contentious point I'd make is that while all brands attract fan boys, Sony is perhaps especially prone to this because of its historic lineage and also because people can be snobby about Sony as a consumerist brand.



As an owner of this device, my decision wasn’t to buy because it’s “Sony” & even though I own many Sony products, I do not consider myself a “fanboy” or a “snob” or as part of a “religious cult”, which in itself is narcissistically childish. I own other brands, which I also get enjoyment from.

I considered a very long time to buy the DMP, because of the very expensive price & if it would be worth the outlay ?? I can confirm that owners that were very positive with their feedback, are correct & not “fanboys” or part of some “religious cult”. When people post of personal experience of something, I tend to take more notice of them, than a person that just bases their views, largely on assumptions or the odd rental listen. ( Which is odd ! )

( which is not to say it performs badly ) Do you own the player or heard it ??

The bottom line is, that it’s the best audio device I’ve personally heard. Would have I liked it to be a little less expensive ? Of course I would, but there is that saying, “You get what you pay for” & this is true in this instance. What price do you put on years of enjoyment ?


----------



## Rob49 (Dec 5, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> As an aside - genuine curiosity - I've not heard the term "Narc" since 1987 in the US. How has it come into everyday lingo in West Midlands of all places?



Narcissistic Personality Disorder, is found across all society, in every part of the world, even in the West Midlands, believe it or not ! ( Think Donald Trump & Boris Johnson, for just two examples. )


----------



## Nostoi

Rob49 said:


> Narcissistic Personality Disorder, is found across all society, in every part of the world, even in the West Midlands, believe it or not ! ( Think Donald Trump & Boris Johnson, for just two examples. )


Oh ok. I tend to associate the term with narcotics agent, as in Miami Vice etc. I've never been to West Midlands, so it may have more traction there.


----------



## Nostoi

efftee said:


> And you are being presumptuous again. In my opinion (and experience), the DMP-Z1 is great value in comparison with the Bartok; you’d really have to go up to the Rossini, at the least, for dCS, and though I have not heard the Soulution rigs, I hear from audiophile friends at least Series 5, which, in their books, is much better value!
> 
> FWIW, I think the DMP-Z1 is as good as it gets FOR HEADFI, particularly IEMS, can’t speak for headphones, don’t do those. Anything more than that is like using a laser to shoot a fly! My fly swatter Sony gets the job done — nothing to brag or crow about.


Boom - reasonable answer, thank you. DMP-Z1 endgame for IEMs - I think that's a good approach. My use is for headphones, which perhaps gives context to my remarks.


----------



## Nostoi

Rob49 said:


> ( which is not to say it performs badly ) Do you own the player or heard it ??
> 
> The bottom line is, that it’s the best audio device I’ve personally heard. Would have I liked it to be a little less expensive ? Of course I would, but there is that saying, “You get what you pay for” & this is true in this instance. What price do you put on years of enjoyment ?


Yes, heard it many times. But as mentioned above, on headphones only, which is why it left me cold. As an IEM-focused unit, perhaps my expectations and results would have been different.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I’m not sure if you’re being supportive or critical of the “narcissist rental user” or the people that actually own & enjoy the device ??


He has envy of us who have one i think as he also critized my furniture


----------



## Vamp898 (Dec 5, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> Yes, heard it many times. But as mentioned above, on headphones only, which is why it left me cold. As an IEM-focused unit, perhaps my expectations and results would have been different.


The next argument will be it's different if you just hear it or if you own it. DMP-Z1 owners accept nothing else besides the DMP-Z1. It's the most expensive so it's the best.

How much did you pay for your desktop amp? Less than 9000€? So it has to be worse.

And if someone else invents an more expensive device, it's insane and not worth its money and you should rather save money by getting the better DMP-Z1.

You're just wasting your time here. This thread is not to discuss the DMP-Z1 but praise it's allmighty glory.

Are you praising the DMP-Z1? No? So you have no right to be here. You're just jealous that you can't afford the DMP-Z1, there is no other way.

The DMP-Z1 sound the better the more you payed for it, so it can never sound good if you just test drive it because you haven't payed for it.


----------



## Nostoi

gerelmx1986 said:


> He has envy of us who have one i think as he also critized my furniture


While it is very true that I criticised your furniture - for which I apologised - I can assure you in no uncertain terms, there is nothing and no-one on this thread that inspires envy. Sorry to disappoint.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Seems lile the  trick of idling the player for 15 to 30 seconds has worked. Thanks @MrWalkman


----------



## gerelmx1986

Vamp898 said:


> The next argument will be it's different if you just hear it or if you own it. DMP-Z1 owners accept nothing else besides the DMP-Z1. It's the most expensive so it's the best.
> 
> How much did you pay for your desktop amp? Less than 9000€? So it has to be worse.
> 
> ...


Don’t feed the crazy narc/troll/orc


----------



## Rob49

It’s odd ( or I should say, not so odd ! ) that the people that have listened to it “many times” or have rented it, have the most to say about it.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Don’t feed the crazy narc/troll/orc



My friend, have you confused who the narcissist is ? You’ve just replied to her…..& I guarantee she’ll be back time & time again……they’re like dogs with a bone, that won’t let go.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> It’s odd ( or I should say, not so odd ! ) that the people that have listened to it “many times” or have rented it, have the most to say about it.


I dont usually review too soon. I wait for buen in to settle down to finally say something. So far i could say it’s opening up, maturing very nice.

Uewterdau spent liatening to some Mozart symphonies and Concert Arias. A thing i wanted to say os that i perceive no distortion wirh highly demanding operistic passages f.e. When a singer sings loud with vibrato/tremolo suprisingly wow. For example when the concert aria “Popoli di Tessaglia.” K 316 (200b) accelerates to Allegro assai, there is some demanding passage woth a sudden pitvh raise together with abeupt volume change from the voice as she is lamenting. No distortion wow, after this is more amazing when the soprano goes from an F4 to a G6 (two octaves above) with such a clarity


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I dont usually review too soon. I wait for buen in to settle down to finally say something. So far i could say it’s opening up, maturing very nice.
> 
> Uewterdau spent liatening to some Mozart symphonies and Concert Arias. A thing i wanted to say os that i perceive no distortion wirh highly demanding operistic passages f.e. When a singer sings loud with vibrato/tremolo suprisingly wow. For example when the concert aria “Popoli di Tessaglia.” K 316 (200b) accelerates to Allegro assai, there is some demanding passage woth a sudden pitvh raise together with abeupt volume change from the voice as she is lamenting. No distortion wow, after this is more amazing when the soprano goes from an F4 to a G6 (two octaves above) with such a clarity



Yes, I find there’s no distortion no matter how high the high is.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Yes, I find there’s no distortion no matter how high the high is.


The voice diatortions i heatd on my WM1A i theoritize they are introduced by the S-Master DAC as it cannot cope with sich abrupt chqnges in volume (from normal/pianissino to a fortissimo) or sudden pitch variations. As there is no real analog amplifier stage on the WM1A/Z other than a LPG Compised of the induztor coils and vapacitors i am not sure where really the diatortions occur.

But the DMP has sich a clear rendition of the sound no matter what comes be it a solo flute or a drmanding orchestral operistic passage , it renders crystal clear


----------



## efftee

Vamp898 said:


> The next argument will be it's different if you just hear it or if you own it. DMP-Z1 owners accept nothing else besides the DMP-Z1. It's the most expensive so it's the best.
> 
> How much did you pay for your desktop amp? Less than 9000€? So it has to be worse.
> 
> ...


Really? Why are you here? No offense but when I find myself in a room that stank, you’d not find me coming back! You might want to try that. 😊

For the record, I don’t think the DMP-Z1 is the best, far from 'end game', if there’s even such a thing, by any stretch of the word. It serves my purpose; not cheap, not expensive either (you need to get out more if you think $9000 is exorbitant for hifi gear). If you can afford it, I’d say, go for it, you won’t regret the endless hours of pleasure it will give you. But if you cannot or will not spend the money, no problem! You won’t be short for choice in today’s marketplace that will tickle all your funny bones.


----------



## Rob49

efftee said:


> Really? Why are you here?



For narcissist supply & she’s getting it, if people respond.


----------



## Vamp898

efftee said:


> Really? Why are you here? No offense but when I find myself in a room that stank, you’d not find me coming back! You might want to try that. 😊
> 
> For the record, I don’t think the DMP-Z1 is the best, far from 'end game', if there’s even such a thing, by any stretch of the word. It serves my purpose; not cheap, not expensive either (you need to get out more if you think $9000 is exorbitant for hifi gear). If you can afford it, I’d say, go for it, you won’t regret the endless hours of pleasure it will give you. But if you cannot or will not spend the money, no problem! You won’t be short for choice in today’s marketplace that will tickle all your funny bones.


The DMP-Z1 an interesting device and I like it. And from time to time there are sane people here.

As long someone doesn't take this thread too serious, why not be here?

It is important that someone is here for the people who are actually interest in the device to get some reliable informations that are more than feelings and a believe.

For example the good old "High gain sounds better" myth. Always a classic and you have to admit, it is amusing that people pay 9000€ for an DAP and use it in the worst quality setting it offers because they believe into a myth  maybe I'm a bad person but this always gives me chuckles.

But at least I have the courtesy to tell those people "hey, it's a myth, don't do that because it lowers the quality" and I even post Datasheet from the company who developed the Amp chip that says exactly that. Sure some people here still would disagree even if the Sony engineering team would post a statement saying that and be sure they lie for whatever reason. But if just one person stops using the unneeded use of high gain, it's already a success.

Why not help the people that actually accept help and want it? Because there people who are offended by it because they will lose their credibility? 


> far from 'end game', if there’s even such a thing


For achromatic amps, there is a Endgame. For chromatic amps I'd say that's impossible due to the nature of the product itself.

Of course a lot of people are not into achromatic amps but if someone is looking for the best sonic performance, no matter what, it's THX AAA.

And if someone looks into this forum because he is seriously interested into the device to get more informations about the device and only finds people who think they can hear 24bit and that High Gain sounds better...

The DMP-Z1 is an engineering marvel and deserves more than an religious cult that follows it, imho so even if the cult is strong in here, why not be here? Because people feel offended by facts? I think that would definitely send the wrong signal to the people who are interested into the DMP-Z1 because it actually suits their usecase 

This would not be the first time that people would stop using Sony products because they are afraid that people would assisiate then with the cult. Sony devices are good enough to deserve more than fanboys.


----------



## efftee

Vamp898 said:


> The DMP-Z1 an interesting device and I like it. And from time to time there are sane people here.
> 
> As long someone doesn't take this thread too serious, why not be here?
> 
> ...


I hear you. I think. Key point -- don't take this thread, or any other, too seriously.


----------



## pdL389

Nostoi said:


> The reasons are twofold.
> 
> 1. To spend 9k on portable unit involves an act of devotion to the Sony brand which is analogous to being a cult member (because, after all, you're not paying for sound performance but for being peak Sony).
> 2. This commitment carries with it anxiety about whether the chosen path is the correct one. To fend off buyer's remorse, a certain degree of psychological gymastatics are required, which manifests itself as defensive behaviour.
> ...


After all, I did pay for the sound performance.  Was looking for the amp and auditioned quite a few.  As a result, DMP-Z1 was my pick to pair with Hifiman HE1000V2 (power hungry headphones).  In short, DMP-Z1 won for blacker background, super-super clean sound (must say to the point of addiction), DEEP bass (also addictive for its definition and timbre), let alone the overall tonality (the Sony DNA).

I am super happy, and having no remorse for buying DMP over Chord Hugo TT2 (the cheaper toy, that could've saved me about USD 4,000).


----------



## gerelmx1986

pdL389 said:


> After all, I did pay for the sound performance.  Was looking for the amp and auditioned quite a few.  As a result, DMP-Z1 was my pick to pair with Hifiman HE1000V2 (power hungry headphones).  In short, DMP-Z1 won for blacker background, super-super clean sound (must say to the point of addiction), DEEP bass (also addictive for its definition and timbre), let alone the overall tonality (the Sony DNA).
> 
> I am super happy, and having no remorse for buying DMP over Chord Hugo TT2 (the cheaper toy, that could've saved me about USD 4,000).


When you say you were looking dor the amp. Was it the TA-ZH1ES? 

I dis try the TA and the SMP and for me too the SMP WON. I also tried other DAPs likeibasso 300 abd a SP2K. DMP still has the best perf, and that is the reason i got it.


----------



## sanguineburrito

Vamp898 said:


> It's not me saying that there is only a marginal to no difference, it's the guys who develop and build that at Sony. They claim it in the linked sources.



Since you like to share so much reliable facts and information, do you mind following up to your claim that the Sony engineers said there’s marginal to no difference between DMP and TA-zh1es?
Someone checked your link sources but could not verify what you said.

Or is “I have to recheck the sources, maybe it was at a other interview (they gave meetings with owners and lots of others stuff)” good enough for you to quote the Sony engineers to support your fact?


----------



## pdL389

sanguineburrito said:


> DMP can not drive Susvara. At the store,  I connected DMP to cayin HA-300 via 3.5mm to RCA, then susvara via SE. i had to turn DMP close to max (high gain) and HA-300 to 3 oclock (medium gain) to get to my normal listening volume. I think LCD5 would be a better match with DMP.


Thanks for letting me know!  I am also eying LCD-5 to try out.  I did audition LCD-4z in comparison to Hifiman HE1000V2, the latter won for detail retrieval, but lost in the bass territory.  Do you on anyone knows of a store in the US that has LCD-5 to try out? Thanks again!


----------



## sanguineburrito

If there is a Sony religious cult here, you would be the inspiration to everyone here lol. 
Your active participation gives life to this thread. Your determination to rent the device multiple times is some real dedication. And the long list of Sony gears that you own.. i think i need to work on my Sony fanboy game lol


----------



## sanguineburrito (Dec 5, 2021)

pdL389 said:


> Thanks for letting me know!  I am also eying LCD-5 to try out.  I did audition LCD-4z in comparison to Hifiman HE1000V2, the latter won for detail retrieval, but lost in the bass territory.  Do you on anyone knows of a store in the US that has LCD-5 to try out? Thanks again!


I tried lcd5 with DMP. I think DMP can drive it. Has good detail, sense of space and dynamics. Very good all rounder.  Listening volume usually at around 12-2pm via balanced. I dont reside In the states at the moment, so maybe check out the lcd5 thread for locations.


----------



## pdL389

gerelmx1986 said:


> When you say you were looking dor the amp. Was it the TA-ZH1ES?
> 
> I dis try the TA and the SMP and for me too the SMP WON. I also tried other DAPs likeibasso 300 abd a SP2K. DMP still has the best perf, and that is the reason i got it.


Nope, I auditioned Sony TA-ZH1ES three times at Audit Advice, Raleigh, NC and although it has the same tonality of Sony WM1Z and DMP, it did not sound as clean as DMP did to my ears.  Simply put, TA-Z just didn't offer the same level of refinement in music reproduction.  DMP-Z1 does it with finesse (it is a Rolex in music!)


----------



## pdL389

sanguineburrito said:


> I tried lcd5 with DMP. I think DMP can drive it. Has good detail, sense of space and dynamics. Very good all rounder.  Listening volume usually at around 12-2pm via balanced. I dont reside In the states at the moment, so maybe check out the lcd5 thread for locations.


TY!!


----------



## nanaholic (Dec 5, 2021)

Vamp898 said:


> Fully customised? Really? The linked article states that they tried to customize it and failed because the original one sounded the best and so they gave up. Maybe we have different definitions of "Fully Customised". For me, doing minor adjustments that doesn't matter to be able to implement it in the device is not fully customised.



You are cherry picking the interview - it's fully customised because in the beginning they tried changing the body with different materials instead of the original brass (such as substituting it with aluminium) but found them not as good as the original, Sony then suggested they try using the gold plating method over copper they've invented in the WM1Z and apply it to the RK501, which they then did by first plating the brass body with copper, and then plating it with gold to get the fully customised RK501. It is fully customised because Alps never had this in their line up for the RK501 and it was Sony who provided them with the know-how to do it - this is exactly how fully customised is supposed to mean, as in you can't buy it as it is from the seller.



Vamp898 said:


> And yes the Kimber Cable is just Co Engineering by Kimber but what is the point here?



Then it's not "off the shelf" - which is EXACTLY the point, because you were criticising the DMP-Z1 for it not being as "exotic" as the Chord Hugo TT2 because it is using "off the shelf parts", if Sony co-created the cables with Kimber and as a result they are using parts which is only available to them, then it's not "off the shelf" anymore is it?



Vamp898 said:


> This really is nitpicking the hard level and why do discussions about the DMP-Z1 always feel like I'm discussing with an religious cult.



Because you started off with a poor definition of what "exotic hardware" means, if you aren't prepare to defend it, don't cry about it now.



Vamp898 said:


> Sony buys the DAC, the Amp and the volume knob of the shelve and your argument is "But Chord bought the FPGA". What level of arguing is this?
> 
> It's just a music player, gosh. It's not a holy grail. There are devices that measure better and if you prefer achromatic amps, there are devices that sound better too.



You were claiming Chord uses "exotic hardware" which made it superior to the DMP-Z1 - but that's objectively wrong. Chord uses common electronic hardware but made it special with SOFTWARE. To me actual "exotic hardware" would be like the Sony S-Master - a IC chip that is COMPLETELY fabricated by Sony themselves in their own chip fabs that's not sold to any other OEM even if they want it, not a Xilinx FPGA chip that is programmable by a 500 dollar Windows PC with a USB port and a 3000 dollar Xilinx FPGA kit that you and I can buy off Mouser (and again, the special source is COMPLETELY in Rob Watt's software code).

I love Chord products myself and happily paid for them before (I've owned a Mojo and a Hugo 2) because yes, they and Sony are the only two company that pushes the envelope in either creating dedicated hardware or fully supplementing available parts with their own sound-related technology that's not simply a different software UI. You have to frame the issue in the proper context, which IMNSHO, you weren't doing. You can open up a Chord product and even completely copy their internals, but without Rob Watt's software, it's not a going to make it a Chord product. On the other hand for the DMP-Z1, you can't get the same RK501, you can't get the same Sony Kimber Kable (though arguably you can buy direct from Kimber and get a better cable), and you most definitely can't get the DSD Re-mastering engine source code. So using your metric, wouldn't that actually make the DMP-Z1 more "exotic hardware" than the Chord products?


----------



## Rob49

Obviously @nanaholic you KNOW that you’ll be receiving a reply !


----------



## Rob49

What’s your “go to” headphone with the DMP-Z1 ?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> What’s your “go to” headphone with the DMP-Z1 ?


I use MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R. Drom the two the MDR sounds bewt. The IER sounds good too with ciatom tips but they shift the weight outwards and become incomfortable as the tips are now the weight beatrfs


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I use MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R. Drom the two the MDR sounds bewt. The IER sounds good too with ciatom tips but they shift the weight outwards and become incomfortable as the tips are now the weight beatrfs



I can’t tolerate IEM’s. As you know, my “go to” headphones are my Sony 1AM2’s & for me I don’t find that I can listen for hours on end with my MDR-Z1R’s. ( I have Senn HD660S, which I don’t think I’ve given a really good try out. ) Nothing sounds bad to me, but was just thinking of a future alternative ??


----------



## gsiu33

Nostoi said:


> The reasons are twofold.
> 
> 1. To spend 9k on portable unit involves an act of devotion to the Sony brand which is analogous to being a cult member (because, after all, you're not paying for sound performance but for being peak Sony).
> 2. This commitment carries with it anxiety about whether the chosen path is the correct one. To fend off buyer's remorse, a certain degree of psychological gymastatics are required, which manifests itself as defensive behaviour.
> ...


Firstly, it is not a portable DAP, I will not carry a DMP-Z1 to go for hiking, only with a WM1Z. I bought DMP-Z1 after listened to it for 6 - 8 times at Sony demo room and made the decision because of its performance. BTW, I never consider myself as a Sony‘s fan.


----------



## gerelmx1986

One month with it buen on so far


----------



## nanaholic (Dec 8, 2021)

Rob49 said:


> Obviously @nanaholic you KNOW that you’ll be receiving a reply !



If he has anything constructive counter arguments to say then I welcome it.

Instead what I find more interesting are people like Vamp898 and Nostoi going around implicating Sony users they've made the wrong choice and got ripped off because they simply don't know better (just realised I replied to Vamp898 in the ZX-500 thread as well, pretty much saying the same things, and ironically, he claims the Sony Walkmans are overpriced for using the S-Master chips, which in this very thread using his own arguments, the S-Master would be an exotic piece of hardware which warrants a price increase). The presumptions they make here are fascinating, because if anything what I find is that DMP-Z1 buyers - like myself - usually knows EXACTLY what they are buying and have more experiences with multiple types of gear of all price points, yet just find the DMP-Z1 to fit that specific usage scenario the best. As I've mentioned in this very thread before, I was initially considering buying a Hugo TT2, but decided against it because a) I physically move around a lot (as in move between cities and countries), I don't want to be tied to a heavy desktop device, and b) the DMP-Z1 is a true all-in-one device, unlike the Hugo TT2 where I still need to supply it with a source. I made the conscious decision to pick the device with the least compromise to me and I wasn't buying for things like "peak Sony" or anything of that kind.


----------



## Rob49 (Dec 9, 2021)

nanaholic said:


> If he has anything constructive counter arguments to say then I welcome it.
> 
> Instead what I find more interesting are people like Vamp898 and Nostoi going around implicating Sony users they've made the wrong choice and got ripped off because they simply don't know better (just realised I replied to Vamp898 in the ZX-500 thread as well, pretty much saying the same things, and ironically, he claims the Sony Walkmans are overpriced for using the S-Master chips, which in this very thread using his own arguments, the S-Master would be an exotic piece of hardware which warrants a price increase). The presumptions they make here are fascinating, because if anything what I find is that DMP-Z1 buyers - like myself - usually knows EXACTLY what they are buying and have more experiences with multiple types of gear of all price points, yet just find the DMP-Z1 to fit that specific usage scenario the best. As I've mentioned in this very thread before, I was initially considering buying a Hugo TT2, but decided against it because a) I physically move around a lot (as in move between cities and countries), I don't want to be tied to a heavy desktop device, and b) the DMP-Z1 is a true all-in-one device, unlike the Hugo TT2 where I still need to supply it with a source. I made the conscious decision to pick the device with the least compromise to me and I wasn't buying for things like "peak Sony" or anything of that kind.



I respect that, but as I’ve clearly posted on here, I see what the situation & behaviour is.

They will inevitably always contradict themselves, eventually, by trying to dictate the discussion.

The prime motive is to get a reaction. It’s not about a product, that’s just a tool to use, to get the reaction.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Like @nanaholic said. I was also decided between a TA-ZH1ES or an Hugo2 . I rought it many times as i always wanted a dedicated streamwr like the HAP-S1  to have all my music in one place wirhout having to access the computer.

I also wanted a special “limited edition” sony gear like the famous qualia. 

Then i tried it on Berlin and ipon hearing the SMP, i knew WHAT I WANTED, it somply ricked all my boxes.

I dont feel being ripped-off it is well conatructed, firmware is solid, the sound is like no pther.

I still praise sony S-Master and the steps they have made to counter noise from it… from the walkman X series bavk on 2009 that hissed like a corronmouth snake to thw silent WM1A. I wonder how’s the performance of the new S-master found in the SA-Z1.


----------



## gerelmx1986

The included power supply is indeed very goid. I see the battery modus as a convenience for the case of a power outage and for yravel )on a Train or plane)


----------



## gerelmx1986

I wll be using the battery once a month. Y wterday got 7.5 hours play time  with DSD Remastering deactivated


----------



## Damz87

Lately I’ve been keeping the AC power connected at all times. Is this safe for the batteries? Should I be routinely unplugging and running the batteries through a power cycle?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Damz87 said:


> Lately I’ve been keeping the AC power connected at all times. Is this safe for the batteries? Should I be routinely unplugging and running the batteries through a power cycle?


https://helpguide.sony.net/dmp/dmpz1/v1/en/contents/TP0001691038.html


----------



## cosplayerkyo

I agree, the DMP has a very specific purpose


nanaholic said:


> The presumptions they make here are fascinating, because if anything what I find is that DMP-Z1 buyers - like myself - usually knows EXACTLY what they are buying and have more experiences with multiple types of gear of all price points, yet just find the DMP-Z1 to fit that specific usage scenario the best. As I've mentioned in this very thread before, I was initially considering buying a Hugo TT2, but decided against it because a) I physically move around a lot (as in move between cities and countries), I don't want to be tied to a heavy desktop device, and b) the DMP-Z1 is a true all-in-one device, unlike the Hugo TT2 where I still need to supply it with a source. I made the conscious decision to pick the device with the least compromise to me and I wasn't buying for things like "peak Sony" or anything of that kind.


100% agree.  While I enjoyed using the TAZ plus WM1A, I realized I was only using it at my desk.  I wanted to be able to bring my audio around to different rooms and it was a huge hassle moving it around every time.  And forget if I wanted to even consider traveling with it.  Also factor in that while I do enjoy listening to the WM1A, the soundstage on the TAZ spoiled me.

After looking and trying various other setups, all had the same problem of being chained down.  That's when I realized the DMP-Z1 was the perfect solution for what I was looking for.


----------



## Vamp898

cosplayerkyo said:


> I agree, the DMP has a very specific purpose
> 
> 100% agree.  While I enjoyed using the TAZ plus WM1A, I realized I was only using it at my desk.  I wanted to be able to bring my audio around to different rooms and it was a huge hassle moving it around every time.  And forget if I wanted to even consider traveling with it.  Also factor in that while I do enjoy listening to the WM1A, the soundstage on the TAZ spoiled me.
> 
> After looking and trying various other setups, all had the same problem of being chained down.  That's when I realized the DMP-Z1 was the perfect solution for what I was looking for.


That is exactly the reason to buy the DMP-Z1. You understood this product 100% and bought the best device for your usecase.


----------



## cat3600

Under bright lights I see very fine hairline scratches on the gold volume knob and on the top cover. I always use gloves but this has to be the most scratch prone audio device I have ever used. I feel scared breathing on it lol! Anyone else feel the same....


----------



## gerelmx1986

Damz87 said:


> Lately I’ve been keeping the AC power connected at all times. Is this safe for the batteries? Should I be routinely unplugging and running the batteries through a power cycle?


I de qnt ro lnow ir roo if qhen  using the AC Power the battery ia disconnected once reaching 100%. Because when i connect the AC it lita green and when tuening it on it lita for somw minutes orange before foing back to green


----------



## rlaxowjd155

A friend of mine told me that SONY stopped after service program for dmp-z1 due to lack of parts. Any information here?


----------



## Gamerlingual

rlaxowjd155 said:


> A friend of mine told me that SONY stopped after service program for dmp-z1 due to lack of parts. Any information here?


The parts will be stocked up to 7 years after the year the product is discontinued


----------



## gerelmx1986

I am trying tohe following but it doesnt seem to work as expected.

I transmit via bluetooth from DMP to an amazon echo show 8 and then say ro alexa to cast to sonos speakers. 

The bluetooth step works as the alexa plays on the device internal speaker but for some reason it says something went wrong or  there is no song or playliat to stream (to sonos).

I bet one cannot just simply  “jump” from bkuetooth to wifi. 

Is there an alexa skill that enables re-rputing of bluetooth to wifi? Like cast BT to sonos or so?

Or if there are usb-C or with line in jack WiFi-transmitter devices that cast to sonos, much like the iPos says where many used a FM-transmitter or later a BT-transmitter


----------



## rlaxowjd155

Gamerlingual said:


> The parts will be stocked up to 7 years after the year the product is discontinued


As far as I know, It is discontinued this year. my colleague told me that he failed to fix his broken DMP at sony service center due to lack of part. I want to hear someone else' AS experience.


----------



## coolhand

rlaxowjd155 said:


> As far as I know, It is discontinued this year. my colleague told me that he failed to fix his broken DMP at sony service center due to lack of part. I want to hear someone else' AS experience.



Precisely what was broken, and which specific Sony Service Centre was it that were unable to obtain the 'apparent' part required?? 

It's currently still available for sale new in many global markets, obviously inclusive of full warranty. 

It would be exceedingly unusual for Sony to sell new products with zero availability of replacement components.

In the event of faults, do you think simply replacing ENTIRE units is a logical business strategy... 🤔


----------



## Gamerlingual

rlaxowjd155 said:


> As far as I know, It is discontinued this year. my colleague told me that he failed to fix his broken DMP at sony service center due to lack of part. I want to hear someone else' AS experience.


Sony of Japan says it’s not. I speak Japanese and asked them directly at Sony in Ginza


----------



## rlaxowjd155

Gamerlingual said:


> Sony of Japan says it’s not. I speak Japanese and asked them directly at Sony in Ginza


Thank you very much for this information. I don't know what is the exact problem with his dmp but seems to be local problem or something wrong with his dmp's own problem at least.


----------



## rlaxowjd155

coolhand said:


> Precisely what was broken, and which specific Sony Service Centre was it that were unable to obtain the 'apparent' part required??
> 
> It's currently still available for sale new in many global markets, obviously inclusive of full warranty.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you. I thought my friend's experience is too odd to understand. This is the reason I asked this issue in this thread. Probably, It is his dmp's own issue rather than issue of Sony AS. I don't know what is the exact problem with his dmp but relieved with many hopeful answers. Many thanks to guys.


----------



## Vamp898

Gamerlingual said:


> Sony of Japan says it’s not. I speak Japanese and asked them directly at Sony in Ginza


It's also sold in the Sony Store Japan online Shop and at resellers places like e-earphone.

If it is discontinued, it disappears there first


----------



## cat3600

Anyone has or planning to get the Meze LIRIC to pair with the DMP. I have the Rai Penta and quite like the brand.

I like closed back headphones, my Z1R somedays I love it somedays I don't.... just want to try the Liric


----------



## gerelmx1986

cat3600 said:


> Anyone has or planning to get the Meze LIRIC to pair with the DMP. I have the Rai Penta and quite like the brand.
> 
> I like closed back headphones, my Z1R somedays I love it somedays I don't.... just want to try the Liric


I enrolled to the review tour (hoping to be selected)


----------



## Vamp898 (Dec 14, 2021)

cat3600 said:


> Anyone has or planning to get the Meze LIRIC to pair with the DMP. I have the Rai Penta and quite like the brand.
> 
> I like closed back headphones, my Z1R somedays I love it somedays I don't.... just want to try the Liric


The Rai Penta? This rebranded cheap ChiFi IEM from 2016?

Non of the Ear-/Headphones that Meze offers are a match for the DMP-Z1


----------



## kleimart

Has anybody compared the DMP-Z1 with the DX300MAX?


----------



## Vamp898

kleimart said:


> Has anybody compared the DMP-Z1 with the DX300MAX?


Not head-on-head but i heard both. The iBasso DX300MAX sounds completely different. It sounds way more flat and plastic. Its a more Monitoring like sound which makes it easier to pick apart fine details. The DMP-Z1 is completely different. It sounds warm, big, dynamic. Its a listening device with such an sound signature.

Depending on what Headphones/Earphones you use, its a hit or a miss. Headphones that sound authentic and realistic will find a good source with the DMP-Z1. Headphones that sound more analytic will maybe not have the best time.


----------



## Hinomotocho

kleimart said:


> Has anybody compared the DMP-Z1 with the DX300MAX?


@Damz87 I believe owns both and will probably be able to give you a comparison


----------



## cat3600

Vamp898 said:


> The Rai Penta? This rebranded cheap ChiFi IEM from 2016?
> 
> Non of the Ear-/Headphones that Meze offers are a match for the DMP-Z1



Different individuals can have different perceptions. I extensively listened to the Rai Penta back to back with the Sony IER-ZIR on my DMP and choose the Meze plus it was 100% more comfortable. I don't care if its rebranded the built quality is not cheap its very well made and what matters is that I liked the sound....after all this is what the audio hobby is about!


----------



## Damz87

kleimart said:


> Has anybody compared the DMP-Z1 with the DX300MAX?


I shared some comparison thoughts on the DX300 Max thread: 


Damz87 said:


> 3Max is burning in and I'm hearing some slight changes, mostly in the midrange and treble. Out of the box, the treble sounded a bit more emphasised with a lighter note-weight, making the presentation sound somewhat U-shaped because sub-bass also sounded elevated. However it's now sounding more balanced, with mids coming forward in the mix and in-line with the treble. However, sub bass still sounds slightly more elevated than mids and treble.
> 
> Staging/imaging is fantastic on 3Max, especially stage depth and height. To me, 3Max has a rather forward presentation, so the centre image gets pushed very deep and creates an excellent sense of holography. With the Oriolus Traillii, this is one of the most holographic IEM setups I've heard. A must-hear if you own a Traillii imo.
> 
> ...


I still pretty much agree with these impressions, although after further time with both players, I found DMP to have a darker background than 3Max. I also think DMP’s treble rendition sounds more realistic than 3Max’s more digital tone.


----------



## cat3600

Wanted some opinion on magnetic USB C connectors like this and is anyone using this type of connectors.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B09BC8XX6B

I purchased a pair a few months back and tried it briefly, I am trying to minimize the wear and tear on the USB socket as I plug and unplug my Fiio M11 Plus which I use as a streamer with the DMP quite often.

Since its a magnetic connector does anyone think its going to have some long term effect to the USB C socket on the DMP i.e. like magnetize it or degrade the sound quality on the of the USB C cable etc.?

TIA


----------



## kleimart

Damz87 said:


> I shared some comparison thoughts on the DX300 Max thread:
> 
> I still pretty much agree with these impressions, although after further time with both players, I found DMP to have a darker background than 3Max. I also think DMP’s treble rendition sounds more realistic than 3Max’s more digital tone.


Nice thank you very much!


----------



## cat3600

I will do a detailed comparison between the DMP and the M17 after burn in. M17 was an early Christmas present to me lol 😆


----------



## Vamp898 (Dec 17, 2021)

cat3600 said:


> I will do a detailed comparison between the DMP and the M17 after burn in. M17 was an early Christmas present to me lol 😆


The M17 uses an Achromatic Amplifier while the DMP-Z1 uses an chromatic one, so I'm not sure if the comparison is really useful.

Also they are built completely different beside that, but that's a whole different story.

I mean you can absolutely do it, but keep that in mind when comparing. It's a bit like comparing a Big Truck to an Ferrari. If you want to carry big Loads, the truck wins. If your want to win a race on a track, the Ferrari wins.

If you are looking for an flat monitoring like sound, the M17 will be better. If you're looking for an device with an sound signature, the DMP-Z1 will be better.

So depending on what you're looking for, it is already clear who will be better. So always make sure to tell what you're looking for when comparing devices

But beside being Achromatic and chromatic, the DMP-Z1 does have 750mW @32Ω, the M17 does have 3000mW @32Ω

I doubt that this comparison will be of any relevance. These two devices have pretty much nothing in common.


----------



## cat3600

Vamp898 said:


> But beside being Achromatic and chromatic, the DMP-Z1 does have 750mW @32Ω, the M17 does have 3000mW @32Ω


You sure like to throw a lots of words around and mumbo jumbo, firstly I am well aware of the different DACs ESS vs AKM as I have had both in other systems including my home hifi. Secondly you can only achieve the full output on the M17 with the ac power plugged in. I listened to both in battery mode and the Sony is louder with a bigger presence in Soundstage.

Specs and nos don't always correlate to real life. I will plug the M17 to the outlet and then do the comparison in a few days. But I very much doubt there will be much of a difference if any per my initial experience. Comparing both the Sony feels more powerful and I doubt plugging the M17 to the AC will do much.

Bottom line specs mean nothing if it doesn't correlate to actual context in real life!


----------



## Damz87

Vamp898 said:


> The M17 uses an Achromatic Amplifier while the DMP-Z1 uses an chromatic one, so I'm not sure if the comparison is really useful.
> 
> Also they are built completely different beside that, but that's a whole different story.
> 
> ...


Most of us only care about how it _sounds_. How it gets there doesn’t really matter, at least for me.

@cat3600 looking forward to your impressions and comparison. M17 is definitely on my radar.


----------



## cat3600

So last night I did a brief comparison by plugging the M17 to the AC with the included charger. I set the DMP at 12 o'clock I usually listen to the DMP at the 11 o'clock position max and it's plenty for me with any headphones. I put the M17 at 60 volume level which is half of its 120 level. 

There was absolutely zero difference in sound level output between the 2 both seemed equally loud, turning the knob on both units further than that did not make a difference either as both scaled the same in volume for the sake of my hearing I left them at the half way position 60 M17 and 12 o'clock DMP. 

Also the DMP was set to Low Output and the M17 was at the highest level which can be activated when it's plugged into the wall and.......there you go specs mean nothing as both were as loud in similar volume position. I did all my listening with the MDR-Z1R I don't know how much of a difference will there be with harder to drive headphones. 

The M17 gets quite warm and with the the highest output level activated by plugging it into the AC power the charger is not capable to keep it charging while playing at 60 volume level, the battery level kept falling and it went dead after a few hours as I fell asleep and woke up with the battery dead. The Sony as we know is cool as a cucumber no matter how loud and how many hours or days it's playing.

Sound signature of course they are different is one better than the other can't say and too early and it will boil down to personal taste, but I will do a detailed comparison in a few days. I doubt either will come out a winner but more of a difference in sonic signature like any other audio devices Speakers Amplifiers Cables, Power cords etc.


----------



## Rob49

Well I’ve reached the 1.000 hours mark ( 2 - 3 hours more really, if not for the two audio calculations, not calculating ! ) after just 4 months & 21 days.

I’ve basically just been letting my DMP play in alphabetical order from “I” onwards & am back to “C” at present - the song, “Revelation” at the 1.000 hour mark was apt & spooky !

I’ve literally ( almost ) listened to my entire music collection. I’ve never done that with any device I own.

Here’s to the next 1.000 hours…..


----------



## cat3600

Rob49 said:


> Well I’ve reached the 1.000 hours mark ( 2 - 3 hours more really, if not for the two audio calculations, not calculating ! ) after just 4 months & 21 days.
> 
> I’ve basically just been letting my DMP play in alphabetical order from “I” onwards & am back to “C” at present - the song, “Revelation” at the 1.000 hour mark was apt & spooky !
> 
> ...


bro do u have a life 😅 just kidding..


----------



## Rob49

cat3600 said:


> bro do u have a life 😅 just kidding..



Not really !


----------



## nanaholic (Dec 18, 2021)

It would seem like you've fallen for marketing buzzwords.

There are no amps that can amplify without any colouration - they don't exists in the real world as there's no perfect "gain wire" and you can't make one no matter how hard you try. There are only technology which minimizes the distortion as much as possible (eg feed forward/feed back loop).

The TAAA chip in the M17 still has a distortion of 0.003% THD, that's colouration.

The only claim you can make is whether that colouration is audible. Many people will argue anything below one decimal point is inaudible to the human ear already, in which case, neither the colouration of the DMP-Z1 or the M17 should be audible in the first place.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I am at 215 hours


----------



## cat3600

nanaholic said:


> It would seem like you've fallen for marketing buzzwords.
> 
> There are no amps that can amplify without any colouration - they don't exists in the real world as there's no perfect "gain wire" and you can't make one no matter how hard you try. There are only technology which minimizes the distortion as much as possible (eg feed forward/feed back loop).
> 
> ...


Totally agree my Devialet Expert Pro Dual has probably the lowest distortion level of any amp in the world is it the best sound wise no but is it very good yes. I have had probably 6 Amplifiers in the last 5 years I am thinking of changing the Devialet again this is my second pair just to try another amp. Specs mean nothing all amps have different sound signatures also depends whats a good match for the rest of ur system and my Chromatic Brains, lmao


----------



## gerelmx1986

cat3600 said:


> So last night I did a brief comparison by plugging the M17 to the AC with the included charger. I set the DMP at 12 o'clock I usually listen to the DMP at the 11 o'clock position max and it's plenty for me with any headphones. I put the M17 at 60 volume level which is half of its 120 level.
> 
> There was absolutely zero difference in sound level output between the 2 both seemed equally loud, turning the knob on both units further than that did not make a difference either as both scaled the same in volume for the sake of my hearing I left them at the half way position 60 M17 and 12 o'clock DMP.
> 
> ...


Make pics of both d vices sise by side


----------



## Damz87 (Dec 18, 2021)

@cat3600 thank you for your impressions so far. How are you finding the M17 tonality? Is it similar to DMP?


----------



## cat3600

Damz87 said:


> @cat3600 thank you for your impressions so far. How are you finding the M17 tonality? Is it similar to DMP?


I haven't been home 24 hours my wife and me are visiting friends and just trying to enjoy our Christmas time off and partying lol. I put the M17 on repeat before I left after Christmas I will do some serious listening once back


----------



## cat3600

gerelmx1986 said:


> Make pics of both d vices sise by side


once I am back home tomorrow afternoon I will then gone for another 4 days to another city


----------



## gerelmx1986

What @cat3600  described of the same feeling of colume with the same headphones. Makes sense with fiio’s specs of the two high gain modes at 16-Ohm load the M17 outputs 1500mW just like the DMP.

And DMP may di the same as the M17, headphones that require more current get leas voltage and visceversa , HPs that need more volrage get less current. So like @cat3600  specs / values dont really matter


----------



## gerelmx1986

One of my favorite DSD apbums to tewt I v get you hing. From dynamics to soundstage to bass and detail retrieval


----------



## cat3600

gerelmx1986 said:


> Make pics of both d vices sise by side


just a quick one for now


----------



## The1Signature

cat3600 said:


> just a quick one for now


beautiful picture


----------



## gerelmx1986

cat3600 said:


> just a quick one for now


In l ngth and width the fiio is more compact, thickness maybe fiio is a teeny bit slimmer?


----------



## cat3600

Peeps I haven't had the time to do a back to back analysis of the DMP vs the M17 it was just a preliminary one on the output level of both units I will do after I'm back from my trip end of this week.

However last night I was only listening to the M17 with both my headphones (I only have 2) Rai Penta and Z1R. The Z1R really sounds much like a different pair of headphones on the M17 vs the DMP, bass is cleaner not deeper, treble is slightly more forward and the overall sound signature is more on the neutral side than when it's paired with the DMP-Z1

I am actually quite surprised the M17 has really changed the sound signature of the Z1R to a more accurate and relaxed at the same time rather than just a relaxed golden sound with the DMP.

I think the pairing of the 2 is really good and almost believe the DMP is not a good match for the Z1R. I also felt the Rai Penta sounds much better on the DMP than the Fiio M11 Plus and the M17. My head is spinning lol I think DMP needs a different set of Headphones than the Z1R which is what I had from day one. This is an expensive Hobby another headphone in the future 😅


----------



## gerelmx1986

cat3600 said:


> Peeps I haven't had the time to do a back to back analysis of the DMP vs the M17 it was just a preliminary one on the output level of both units I will do after I'm back from my trip end of this week.
> 
> However last night I was only listening to the M17 with both my headphones (I only have 2) Rai Penta and Z1R. The Z1R really sounds much like a different pair of headphones on the M17 vs the DMP, bass is cleaner not deeper, treble is slightly more forward and the overall sound signature is more on the neutral side than when it's paired with the DMP-Z1
> 
> ...


You mean MDR or IER when you sau Z1R ?


----------



## cat3600

gerelmx1986 said:


> You mean MDR or IER when you sau Z1R ?


MDR-Z1R I don't have the IER


----------



## gerelmx1986

cat3600 said:


> MDR-Z1R I don't have the IER


Curiously i found mu MDR-Z1R  most of the times very accurate and reference grade with clean bass, excellent detail retrieval than the IER-Z1R.

My MDR-Z1R is #500-something


----------



## cat3600

gerelmx1986 said:


> Curiously i found mu MDR-Z1R  most of the times very accurate and reference grade with clean bass, excellent detail retrieval than the IER-Z1R.
> 
> My MDR-Z1R is #500-something


My sn no is 9667. Oh I love the MDR just saying I am really liking it more on the M17 than the DMP and thinking of getting a different headphone to try on the DMP maybe the Meze Liric


----------



## Rob49

cat3600 said:


> However last night I was only listening to the M17 with both my headphones (I only have 2) Rai Penta and Z1R. The Z1R really sounds much like a different pair of headphones on the M17 vs the DMP
> 
> I think the pairing of the 2 is really good and almost believe the DMP is not a good match for the Z1R. I also felt the Rai Penta sounds much better on the DMP than the Fiio M11 Plus and the M17. My head is spinning lol I think DMP needs a different set of Headphones than the Z1R which is what I had from day one.



I have a love / hate ( Strong word ! ) relationship with my Sony MDR-Z1R’s. I don’t find them to be a good match with the DMP. I’ve come to the conclusion, that even with the DMP-Z1 you have to find the right match. Don’t get me wrong, nothing sounds bad, but getting the right headphone for your tastes will make the enjoyment & experience so much more rewarding.

Anyway, enjoy your new M17.


----------



## pdL389

100% Agree with @Rob49 about Sony MDR-Z1R paired with DMP.  I parted with my MDR back in March 2021 after two years of love relationship and moved with planars.  In September I re-purchased the MDRs and returned them the very same day. LOL.  To me, it was a waste of DMP paired with MDRs as I couldn't hear the same level of details that Hifiman HE1000V2 were retrieving (highly recommend to try them, if you haven't!.  IMHO,  MDRs do not let DMP bloom due to its "dark" tonality, lacking openness.


----------



## cat3600

pdL389 said:


> 100% Agree with @Rob49 about Sony MDR-Z1R paired with DMP.  I parted with my MDR back in March 2021 after two years of love relationship and moved with planars.  In September I re-purchased the MDRs and returned them the very same day. LOL.  To me, it was a waste of DMP paired with MDRs as I couldn't hear the same level of details that Hifiman HE1000V2 were retrieving (highly recommend to try them, if you haven't!.  IMHO,  MDRs do not let DMP bloom due to its "dark" tonality, lacking openness.


The M17 paired with the MDR is so good that I am not sure I will be pairing it anymore with the DMP at least it wont be my preferred choice. I will keep the MDR as I got an extremely good deal when I bought the DMP and it sounds fantastic with the M17.

When I free up some funds I am going to be looking into another headphone for the DMP....I prefer closed back never tried planers in my life!


----------



## gerelmx1986

@cat3600  WOOT WOOT I got to be part of the review tour for the meze LIRIC


----------



## nanaholic

pdL389 said:


> 100% Agree with @Rob49 about Sony MDR-Z1R paired with DMP.  I parted with my MDR back in March 2021 after two years of love relationship and moved with planars.  In September I re-purchased the MDRs and returned them the very same day. LOL.  To me, it was a waste of DMP paired with MDRs as I couldn't hear the same level of details that Hifiman HE1000V2 were retrieving (highly recommend to try them, if you haven't!.  IMHO,  MDRs do not let DMP bloom due to its "dark" tonality, lacking openness.



Opposite for me - I haven't found any planars I like on the DMP except the Final Audio D8000 Pro, mostly because it doesn't sound like a planar. I just don't like the sound of planars and if looking for detail retravel the Focal Clear is fine with me or I'll go with a STAX. 

Still loving my DMP and MDR pairing though.


----------



## purk

cat3600 said:


> Peeps I haven't had the time to do a back to back analysis of the DMP vs the M17 it was just a preliminary one on the output level of both units I will do after I'm back from my trip end of this week.
> 
> However last night I was only listening to the M17 with both my headphones (I only have 2) Rai Penta and Z1R. The Z1R really sounds much like a different pair of headphones on the M17 vs the DMP, bass is cleaner not deeper, treble is slightly more forward and the overall sound signature is more on the neutral side than when it's paired with the DMP-Z1
> 
> ...


Try the HD800s.  It is a great combo with DMP.


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> Try the HD800s.  It is a great combo with DMP.



Have you tried the HD820 ?


----------



## purk

Rob49 said:


> Have you tried the HD820 ?


Yes.


----------



## cat3600

Will the MDR benefit from pure silver or silver coated headphone cables, right now I have the Sony branded Kimber on it


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> Yes.


…...and…?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Merry christmas


----------



## purk

cat3600 said:


> Will the MDR benefit from pure silver or silver coated headphone cables, right now I have the Sony branded Kimber on it


High quality silver cable for me.  Silver coated copper can sound bright with boomy bass.


----------



## purk

Rob49 said:


> …...and…?


What would you like to know?  The HD820 beside the recessed midrange is a wonderful headphones as long as you have good seal.  Don’t expect it to be HD800s good though but it works well with the DMP.


----------



## Halimj7

purk said:


> What would you like to know?  The HD820 beside the recessed midrange is a wonderful headphones as long as you have good seal.  Don’t expect it to be HD800s good though but it works well with the DMP.


How fast is the bass on Hd820?


----------



## Rob49

Halimj7 said:


> How fast is the bass on Hd820?





purk said:


> What would you like to know?  The HD820 beside the recessed midrange is a wonderful headphones as long as you have good seal.  Don’t expect it to be HD800s good though but it works well with the DMP.



I was interested to compare the two, because ideally I like to use closed back headphones. Thanks for your feedback. ( Sorry, messed up the quoting. )


----------



## rlaxowjd155 (Dec 28, 2021)

Recently, my curiosity lead me to buy second hand DMP-Z1 for matching my 1266 phi tc with superconductor. I've sold all headphones except 1266, my favorate beloved one.
Previously, I matched 1266 with WA8. I know there are many good amp options for 1266 but my decision of WA8 depends on its compactness. So such position is going well with DMP-Z1.
I compared 4.4 vs 3.5 socket and compared several options. 4.4 is louder than 3.5 but has a little bit cloudy feeling. 3.5 is more neutral than 4.4 but needs more volume up for 1266.
I felt WA8 drives 90% of 1266's potential and it was enough for me. On the other hand, DMP-Z1 does just 5-60% of 1266.
I tried some IEMs and was so good for me through 3.5 (especially VE erlkonig for its expanded soundstage) But I'm frankly  a little disappointed with its matching with 1266, especially through its 4.4
There is few matching experience of 1266 with dmp in this post. I left it for just information.


----------



## Blueoris (Dec 26, 2021)

> Recently, my curiosity lead me to buy second hand DMP-Z1 for matching my 1266 phi tc with superconductor. I've sold all headphones except 1266, my favorate beloved one.
> Previously, I matched 1266 with WA8. I know there are many good amp options for 1266 but my decision of WA8 depends on its compactness. So such position is going well with DMP-Z1.
> I compared 4.4 vs 3.5 socket and compared several options. 4.4 is louder than 3.5 but has a little bit cloudy feeling. 3.5 is more neutral than 4.4 but needs more volume up for 1266.
> I felt WA8 drives 90% of 1266's potential and it was enough for me. On the other hand, DMP-Z1 does just 5-60% of 1266.
> ...



Good information, thanks for sharing.

I used to drive my 1266 from the speaker taps of a Yamaha as-3200. The source / pream was a nw wm1z.

Great combo bypassing the preamp of the Yamaha, it was basically plugging an amplifier to the S-Master.

However, this was only possible via 3.5 to RCA; via 4.4 to dual XLR connection I had to play with two volume controls.

I wondered about connecting the 1266 to a DMP-Z1, and I could have pursued that path but I took the lack of 1/6'' and 4 pin XLR in the DMP-Z1 as an indication that wasn't made for TOLT planars. Have you considered the DX300 max? I have read a couple of comments indicating that it drives the 1266 fine.

As a comment aside, the DMP-Z1 seems to  be out of stock in Australia. Is this due to shortwages with the AKM chip? Or it is going to be discontinued?


----------



## rlaxowjd155 (Dec 26, 2021)

You can use this kind of adaptor to use 1266 via 4.4 socket of dmp. I've heard the performance of DX300max and DX300max ti and am quite interested in those new daps. Dmp seems to be out of stock in many countries. IMO, dmp is an unique source for sure.


----------



## Rob49

Well I thought I’d post my monthly photo…..5 months in, 1040 hours now, 178 hours for the month, a little down on usage this month, but I knew December would be.

After these number of hours listening, it can feel quite normalised now, which I guess is no surprise, but I’m just listening to a Slade compilation, a group I’ve listened to since the age of 9 & it’s amazing to hear the correct texture of instruments, nearly 50 years later. This is what continues to amaze, the true sound of instruments, not forgetting vocals.

Anyway, till next time……wishing you all a Happy New Year…..& a better 2022, for everyone….


----------



## gerelmx1986

@cat3600  what are your toughts on DMP vs M17?


----------



## cat3600

gerelmx1986 said:


> @cat3600  what are your toughts on DMP vs M17?


So I did some pretty extensive listening to both units I played Diana Krall, Annie Lennox, Eagles, Patricia Barber, Adel and the other usual music and feel both are quite different so personally could not come to a definite conclusion if one is better than the other.

Bass
Bass is more fuller on the DMP and deeper, the M17 has a bass which is quicker its still plenty but I feel on the M17 bass is music dependent while on the Sony it's always there.

Treble
The M17 has a sharper treble not unrefined though very clean, on DMP female vocals sound very smooth maybe too much and a touch laid back.

Midrange
On the DMP vocals are silky and intimate, if there is a rasp in the male voice or some edginess for the female Sony's house sound signature is in full effect here. On the M17 the Midrange is more accurate but not as intimate, hence probably the reason one can listen to the DMP for hours.

I am no reviewer I am just a layman. When I see reviews on YouTube or read reviews I always wondered how they manage to say or describe that many characteristics of an audio system 🤔 lol hats off to those guys!

DMP I feel the sound stage is not wider but deeper in fact it feels the singer is right next to my ears, I am in the middle of the stage surrounded by the the singer and all the instruments. On the M17 I feel the sound stage is much wider as if I am sitting in the first few rows of a concert as I can pin point the different instruments much better left to right. The DMP is more intimate like a headphone system should be and the M17 I feel I am sitting in front of my home stereo....does it even make sense what I am saying lol.

The M17 is very good the dynamics can scale up pretty big is it better than the DMP absolutely not but just different. Both are very good and I would be hard pressed to decide if I was buying from scratch. But if I had a choice of only one I'd go with the M17 not because of the sound but more for the convenience of streaming and way more connection options, Fiio has done an incredible job. Having said that the DMP is very special something about the sound I guess makes it so unique, it would be very difficult for me to sell if it ever crossed my mind.


----------



## cat3600

BTW I did all my listening with the MDR so all the above comments are pertaining to one single headphone on both DMP and M17.

I just started listening to them both with my Meze Rai Penta and the Sony feels very different and this brings me to my initial evaluation earlier that maybe the MDR is not the right headphone for the DMP I am having a blast on the DMP with the Rai Penta!


----------



## pdL389

cat3600 said:


> So I did some pretty extensive listening to both units I played Diana Krall, Annie Lennox, Eagles, Patricia Barber, Adel and the other usual music and feel both are quite different so personally could not come to a definite conclusion if one is better than the other.
> 
> Bass
> Bass is more fuller on the DMP and deeper, the M17 has a bass which is quicker its still plenty but I feel on the M17 bass is music dependent while on the Sony it's always there.
> ...


Excellent review in comparison.  Thanks for doing it for us!!  I’d be interested in hearing your feedback of these two auditioned on Hifiman planar magnetic headphones.  Hopefully you will get a hold of them for your next review.  Great Job and thanks again!!


----------



## cat3600

pdL389 said:


> Excellent review in comparison.  Thanks for doing it for us!!  I’d be interested in hearing your feedback of these two auditioned on Hifiman planar magnetic headphones.  Hopefully you will get a hold of them for your next review.  Great Job and thanks again!!


Thanks, I am planning to audition a few headphones for the DMP including the Meze Liric, I will also try Hifiman. I have to wait a bit as in the last few months I bought the M17, M11 Plus and the Rai Penta so funds are tight now.

But my next buy will be a headphone for the DMP and move the MDR to the M17 it sounds very good with the M17. Maybe I will sell the M11 Plus not sure if I need it now that I have the M17


----------



## gerelmx1986

cat3600 said:


> So I did some pretty extensive listening to both units I played Diana Krall, Annie Lennox, Eagles, Patricia Barber, Adel and the other usual music and feel both are quite different so personally could not come to a definite conclusion if one is better than the other.
> 
> Bass
> Bass is more fuller on the DMP and deeper, the M17 has a bass which is quicker its still plenty but I feel on the M17 bass is music dependent while on the Sony it's always there.
> ...


Not the best music choice, typical pop woth dobious mastering.

With fine classical music recordings would have been better. IMO DMP and MDR-Z1R are a superb match for m, i dont know if its my particular Z1R (low serial number), the music or the dmp region CEW (west europe)? 

But i can tell you, good masters shinwe on the SMP regardless of file format , i recwntly “upgraded” a Mercury records Living presence CD release of Mussorgskys Pictures at an Exhibition with Antal Dorati in the orchestra version and Byron Janis on the piano solo version, upgraded to DSD64 wow wow, suddenly the piano became so real sounding and the orchestra version less piercing


----------



## cat3600

gerelmx1986 said:


> Not the best music choice, typical pop woth dobious mastering.
> 
> With fine classical music recordings would have been better. IMO DMP and MDR-Z1R are a superb match for m, i dont know if its my particular Z1R (low serial number), the music or the dmp region CEW (west europe)?
> 
> But i can tell you, good masters shinwe on the SMP regardless of file format , i recwntly “upgraded” a Mercury records Living presence CD release of Mussorgskys Pictures at an Exhibition with Antal Dorati in the orchestra version and Byron Janis on the piano solo version, upgraded to DSD64 wow wow, suddenly the piano became so real sounding and the orchestra version less piercing


Well I mostly listen to female vocal jazz for my auditions or critical evaluation otherwise I listen to every thing else except I don't listen to any rap and hip off and all the latest pop which I can't stand. I grew up in the 80s and 90s so of course I listen to those as well, I also listen to movie sound tracks and in the car electronic dance music.

Not everyone listens to classical but of course it's a genre well liked and evaluated by many others


----------



## gerelmx1986

I listened to the DMP first in berlin back in may, this was done with a quad balanced armature IER-M7 , despite not being as resolving as my Z1Rs (both the can and the In-ear) it struck me at first listen wow.

Thwn i started evaluating options to get a new DAP/transportable,

None of the andtoid offerings quite made for me b cause
A) i dont stream, it’s a waste of money vs put chasing files ir CDs only one time rather than “renting” them
B) none of the newer DAP offered a dual SD slot, i have now 1.46TB in local files

C) i drmoed a dx300 non max, disnt appeal me sonically
D) i ich anted a special summit fi sony audio system
E) i wanted a WM1Z but the dmp proved more power is better


----------



## cat3600 (Dec 31, 2021)

gerelmx1986 said:


> I listened to the DMP first in berlin back in may, this was done with a quad balanced armature IER-M7 , despite not being as resolving as my Z1Rs (both the can and the In-ear) it struck me at first listen wow.
> 
> Thwn i started evaluating options to get a new DAP/transportable,
> 
> ...


I mainly stream from Tidal or Amazon but did get a 1tb micro SD card this winter and planning to get a few more 1tb cards as the prices have dropped.

The M17 is terrific and I will be using it along with the DMP. The DMP will always remain in the realms of being an unique experience that's why probably I will never sell it.

I only started this headphone hobby last year when I bought the DMP before that I was only into home hifi. Both are expensive hobbies so I have to be careful how much money I spend on both systems as with headphone audio things can get pretty wild as well.


----------



## gerelmx1986

cat3600 said:


> I mainly stream from Tidal or Amazon but did get a 1tb micro SD card this winter and planning to get a few more 1tb cards as the prices have dropped.
> 
> The M17 is terrific and I will be using it along with the DMP. The DMP will always remain in the realms of being an unique experience that's why probably I will never sell it.
> 
> I only started this headphone hobby last year when I bought the DMP before that I was only into home hifi. Both are expensive hobbies so I have to be careful how much money I spend on both systems as with headphone audio things can get pretty wild as well.


I recently tried amazon Mudic HD  and dolby atmos sounded plasticy artificial, the HD tracks for most music sounded good tho, but classical lacked bass and impact. To avoid bias i decided to test an album of mine both with headphones and with the sonos Wifi speakers and the difference between a CD master annd the remastered on amazon music was obvious. The flac (actually converted to AAC VBR 256kbits/s for the sonos) the local files ripped from my CDs or SACDs and downloads from qobuz and presto classical sounded much better with full bodied notes, while the amazon equivalents lacked in bass or sounded  artificial.

until now i think spotify and qobuz sound best to me as for streaming goes and for downloads qobuz or presto classical


----------



## gerelmx1986

I am feeling the burn in, I is opening up and bloosoming nicely. About to hit 300 hours s, yeah, i l ft it playing the whole noght and i will do the same today


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I am feeling the burn in, I is opening up and bloosoming nicely. About to hit 300 hours s, yeah, i l ft it playing the whole noght and i will do the same today



That’s naughty, you’ve got to listen !


----------



## Vamp898

I found an interview today, that finally gives the whole picture about the DMP-Z1 vs TA-ZH1ES topic.

https://online.stereosound.co.jp/_ct/17225928

Combined with the other official interviews released from Sony, the summary is the following:

Sony thinks the S-Master HX provides the best sound possible. But this comes with several issues.

It can only produce 250mW output power and it needs a lot of hardware to perform as good as possible.

This hardware does not fit into an portable player.

That is why the TA-ZH1ES, it was designed to provide the best sound that is possible with the S-Master HX by removing all size restrictions. It uses different and lager capacitors, larger LCs, S-Tact, an analog amp for error correction at higher output power just to name a few.

So the TA-ZH1ES is the definitive device combining the advantages of an digital amp with an analog amp without any size restrictions. The best of all worlds.

But the TA-ZH1ES does have several issues

- it doesn't contain an player
- it needs a large power supply (>=100V)
- The power source needs to be clean

The DMP-Z1 was designed to solve these issues, but also had one major issue itself. With batteries, you can not produce enough voltage to run the D.A. Hybrid Amp from the TA-ZH1ES.

So the DMP-Z1 solves most of the issues the TA-ZH1ES has, but with the compromise of not having the S-Master HX due to the lack of power.

They wanted to put the S-Master HX into the DMP-Z1 because they think it sounds better, but they couldn't. If they could have made it, they would have made it. That is an important thing to keep in mind. Technical limitations are the reason the DMP-Z1 does not use the S-Master HX due to the restriction of battery's as an power source.

They tuned the analog amp to get as close to the TA-ZH1ES sound as possible with the limitations of an analog amp because the TA-ZH1ES is the reference, but still with the limitations of an analog amp.

They are not meant to replace each other.

The TA-ZH1ES can not replace the DMP-Z1 because it doesn't have an player and needs an clean, >=100V power source. So no portability at all.

The DMP-Z1 can not replace the TA-ZH1ES because it doesn't have enough power for the D.A. Hybrid Amp.

So there is no VS. They are different products meant for different use cases.

If the most important thing for your is portability, the NW-WM1Z is the best device.

If all you care about is the highest sound quality, no matter what, the TA-ZH1ES is the best device.

If you want an sound that gets as close to the TA-ZH1ES as possible but don't want to plug in an additional player, need portability or can not provide a clean power source, the DMP-Z1 is the best device.

If you want all of the above, you have to buy all the devices. The DMP-Z1 can not replace the NW-WM1Z and it can not replace the TA-ZH1ES. You have to buy all 3 if you want to have everything.


----------



## Rob49

If all you care about is the highest sound quality, no matter what, the DMP-Z1 is the best device.

Before you troll your mouth off, as per usual, I’ve owned the TA-ZH1ES for nearly 4 years & I’m almost certain that any owner of both devices will tell you that for pure sound quality, the DMP-Z1 wins hands down. 

No one who OWNS both the devices is going to tell you that the TA is better.


----------



## coolhand

Rob49 said:


> If all you care about is the highest sound quality, no matter what, the DMP-Z1 is the best device.
> 
> Before you troll your mouth off, as per usual, I’ve owned the TA-ZH1ES for nearly 4 years & I’m almost certain that any owner of both devices will tell you that for pure sound quality, the DMP-Z1 wins hands down.
> 
> No one who OWNS both the devices is going to tell you that the TA is better.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Not the best music choice, typical pop woth dobious mastering.
> 
> With fine classical music recordings would have been better. IMO DMP and MDR-Z1R are a superb match for m, i dont know if its my particular Z1R (low serial number), the music or the dmp region CEW (west europe)?
> 
> But i can tell you, good masters shinwe on the SMP regardless of file format , i recwntly “upgraded” a Mercury records Living presence CD release of Mussorgskys Pictures at an Exhibition with Antal Dorati in the orchestra version and Byron Janis on the piano solo version, upgraded to DSD64 wow wow, suddenly the piano became so real sounding and the orchestra version less piercing



My friend, I think that’s based on assumption & bias towards classical music, ( with respect ) to think that those music genre’s / artists must have dubious mastering ?? You make it quite clear to everyone, that you don’t listen to anything but classical music, which obviously is your choice, but I think it’s inaccurate to come to those conclusions.

I have classical music / soundtracks, amongst my music collection & I will agree with you that the DMP is the most controlled, regards any orchestral music. Those piercing highs / moments, that you experience with other devices. Without doubt the DMP plays back orchestral music, the best I’ve heard, but it excels with every music genre.

If something is well mastered, recorded, produced, then it will truly shine with the DMP, it will also show flaws, with not so well produced music, but even with those examples, it shows the music, in it’s best light, mainly down to the magical DSD Remastering Engine.


----------



## MrWalkman

I think it's just music. It sounds good, I listen to it. Keeping it simple.

We sometimes create our own problems


----------



## joe

*MOD NOTE: *Guys, let's stay on topic. I think we slid off a bit.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I heard a live album (new purchase) the DMP delivered ot superb


----------



## gerelmx1986

The meze Liric tour has officially kicked off. So when there are 4 reviewers behind me and wveryone geta 2W review period. I can get zpect more or less to have them in 8 weeks @cat3600


----------



## cat3600

gerelmx1986 said:


> The meze Liric tour has officially kicked off. So when there are 4 reviewers behind me and wveryone geta 2W review period. I can get zpect more or less to have them in 8 weeks @cat3600


Thanks man keep me informed. We have a buy and sell website in Canada called Canuck Audio similar to Audiogon in the US and someone has a Liric for sale for $2300 CAD I think I might go for it


----------



## gerelmx1986

cat3600 said:


> Thanks man keep me informed. We have a buy and sell website in Canada called Canuck Audio similar to Audiogon in the US and someone has a Liric for sale for $2300 CAD I think I might go for it


Boah thqt price is a bit higher than in euros (1999€)


----------



## gerelmx1986

Looks like A&K is trying to chase sony LOL


----------



## Vamp898 (Jan 4, 2022)

Rob49 said:


> If all you care about is the highest sound quality, no matter what, the DMP-Z1 is the best device.
> 
> Before you troll your mouth off, as per usual, I’ve owned the TA-ZH1ES for nearly 4 years & I’m almost certain that any owner of both devices will tell you that for pure sound quality, the DMP-Z1 wins hands down.
> 
> No one who OWNS both the devices is going to tell you that the TA is better.


You have any explanation why that is so?

The TA-ZH1ES uses better hardware, please explain why the DMP-Z1 is better using the worse hardware according to Sony.

Why is an Single analog Amp better then an Digital/Analog Hybrid AMP? Why did Sony switch from analog to hybrid if analog is better?

Why did Sony explain why they could not use the Hybrid amp if the analog is better anyway?

Don't you think the people who developed and build the device know best what is better? Why would you justify why you didn't use the worse technology?

If the DMP-Z1 is better then the TA-ZH1ES, nothing what Sony says makes sense anymore

Official quote from Sony


> We believe that there are sounds that can only be heard with the S-Master full-digital amplifier.



And please do not say, because it's more expensive.


----------



## Calfredo826

Vamp898 said:


> You have any explanation why that is so?
> 
> The TA-ZH1ES uses better hardware, please explain why the DMP-Z1 is better using the worse hardware according to Sony.
> 
> ...


That quote from Sony is pretty vague. Is it worse sounds? Better sounds? Doesn’t really say much tbh.


----------



## Vamp898 (Jan 4, 2022)

Calfredo826 said:


> That quote from Sony is pretty vague. Is it worse sounds? Better sounds? Doesn’t really say much tbh.


Of course Sony advertises their products to be worse than the competitors. That's what every sane company does.

Actually Sony only makes vague arguments. They never ever say one single time that the DMP-Z1 is their best product, of course not. That'd be pretty stupid.

But it's not just the hybrid amp, the TA-ZH1ES also uses the better chassy and better capacitors.

Sony does not position the DMP-Z1 above the TA-ZH1ES, they advertise them as different devices for different use cases that can't be compared.

And I agree. The TA-ZH1ES is not an Player, it's not portable and does have almost double the output power of the DMP-Z1. They can't be compared.

If you want an portable device, you don't buy the TA-ZH1ES. If you want something to drive hard to drive headphones, you don't buy the DMP-Z1.

I personally don't think the TA-ZH1ES is better or worse, it's mostly different and that is what Sony says too. The only real statement about sound quality that Son made is, that the S-Master HX is better then analog because it doesn't need error correction (which the DMP-Z1 needs and uses)

According to Sony, the only disadvantage of the S-Master HX is it's limited output power

If the S-Master HX could output more then 250mW without an hybrid setup, the DMP-Z1 would have used it.

That is, for me, the proof that Sony thinks it's superior. They would have used it if they could have made it possible, but they weren't and so they decided for an compromise to keep the DMP-Z1 portable.

Here is another quote that shows that


> One of the main features of the S-Master is that it is a non-feedback amplifier that does not use negative feedback, and this method allows it to faithfully reproduce even the faintest of sounds in a sound source without being overshadowed by other sounds. In short, we believe that the most important thing is to be able to faithfully reproduce the sound that the artist wants to convey in the sound source, no matter how small it is.


----------



## nanaholic (Jan 5, 2022)

Vamp898 said:


> That is, for me, the proof that Sony thinks it's superior. They would have used it if they could have made it possible, but they weren't and so they decided for an compromise to keep the DMP-Z1 portable.



Your entire argument falls apart simply for the fact that the DMP-Z1 is made by the Walkman team, whereas the TA-ZH1ES is made by the home audio component team. The two teams are completely different with different people lead by different product owners with different goals, who out of respect for each other's work and other reasons, is going to keep the comments vague.

Also it's not true the TA-ZH1ES has the better chassis, milling the H-shaped DMP-Z1 chassis from a solid block of aluminium is in fact much more expensive and more work than the standard bathtub design of the TA-ZH1ES using extrusion method for the frame.


----------



## Rob49 (Jan 5, 2022)

Vamp898 said:


> You have any explanation why that is so?



Yes I do actually. It’s those things attached to the side of my head…..called…..EARS !


----------



## Damz87

Vamp898 said:


> Of course Sony advertises their products to be worse than the competitors. That's what every sane company does.
> 
> Actually Sony only makes vague arguments. They never ever say one single time that the DMP-Z1 is their best product, of course not. That'd be pretty stupid.
> 
> ...


The TA-ZH1ES is a great sounding device. Thoroughly enjoyed it whilst I had it. Power output, functionality and price aside, I still preferred the DMP-Z1 tonality to TA-ZH1ES however. I found the TA to sound very smooth and laidback. DMP by comparison sounded slightly more analytical, energetic and exciting. I also heard a cleaner, darker background which led to better instrument separation and sharper imaging on DMP with certain IEM’s.

But there were certain IEM pair ups that I preferred on TA over DMP. qdc Anole VX, Final A8000 and Rhapsodio Supreme Mk2 to name a few.

Ultimately, better specs doesn’t always result in better sound quality. Synergy is king IMHO.

One feature that I absolutely loved with TA-ZH1ES was the PRE-OUT function. I used it with a pair of powered speakers and it was amazing.


----------



## cosplayerkyo

As much as I loved my TAZ, the DMP sounds won my heart more. To my ears with my IEMs and headphones and speakers, it sounds clearer, and the imaging is far above.


----------



## nanaholic

https://online.stereosound.co.jp/_ct/17225926

Old interview before the sale of the DMP-Z1 where product owner Sato-san say that from the estimates during pre-production it takes over an hour just to mill each of the H-shaped chassis from the solid block of aluminium.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Some one here mentioned that DMP wasnt made for High-impedancw headphone due to the lack of 6.3mm and XLR.

I find this silly. It has a bakanced and an unbalanced output and you can use adapters sich as 4.4 to XLR


----------



## Vamp898

nanaholic said:


> Your entire argument falls apart simply for the fact that the DMP-Z1 is made by the Walkman team, whereas the TA-ZH1ES is made by the home audio component team. The two teams are completely different with different people lead by different product owners with different goals, who out of respect for each other's work and other reasons, is going to keep the comments vague.
> 
> Also it's not true the TA-ZH1ES has the better chassis, milling the H-shaped DMP-Z1 chassis from a solid block of aluminium is in fact much more expensive and more work than the standard bathtub design of the TA-ZH1ES using extrusion method for the frame.


That is true, everything in the DMP-Z1 is more expensive to make including the chassis.

But i said better, not more expensive.

The TA-ZH1ES weights more (which reduces vibrations in the first place), uses bigger dampers and more layers to dampen vibration. The top part is almost loose and just layed on top of it because if it would be too stiff or too loose, it would affect the sound negatively. Everything on the TA-ZH1ES chassis was designed to be jitter free.

The DMP-Z1 chassis on the other hand was designed to be portable and was designed to be a player, so it is rock solid and undampened. So the TA-ZH1ES uses the better chassis, even though its the cheaper one because it reduces jitter better.

You can, of course, argue that the components in the TA-ZH1ES produce more vibrations in the first place and so the chassis needs to be better than the DMP-Z1 chassis to be able to produce the same results and there is no final answer as you would have to analize the TA-ZH1ES in a solid chassis and the DMP-Z1 in a damped one to ultimately know the truth.

But the TA-ZH1ES chassis is the one that is more optimized to reduce jitter.


----------



## Vamp898

Damz87 said:


> The TA-ZH1ES is a great sounding device. Thoroughly enjoyed it whilst I had it. Power output, functionality and price aside, I still preferred the DMP-Z1 tonality to TA-ZH1ES however. I found the TA to sound very smooth and laidback. DMP by comparison sounded slightly more analytical, energetic and exciting. I also heard a cleaner, darker background which led to better instrument separation and sharper imaging on DMP with certain IEM’s.
> 
> But there were certain IEM pair ups that I preferred on TA over DMP. qdc Anole VX, Final A8000 and Rhapsodio Supreme Mk2 to name a few.
> 
> ...


The choice of Headphones is always very important anyway so of course, every statement i made was regarding the headphones/earphones i own and use.

To me, the DMP-Z1 doesn't sound as fast as the TA-ZH1ES. I have some songs where, with the IER-M9, you can really hear the TA-ZH1ES is faster.

Its a bit like WM1A vs WM1Z. At first glance, the WM1A sounds a bit more clearer and seems to have more detail retrieval and better treble overall because it is more balanced. The much warmer sound of the WM1Z makes it harder to notice that the WM1Z actually does have the better treble. Its kinda masked by its warmness but with just the right IEM like the IER-M9, you can hear with songs that need good treble, that the WM1Z is better.

And it is similar for me with DMP-Z1 vs TA-ZH1ES. The DMP-Z1 sounds like it is faster at first, but with the right songs and the IER-M9, if you listen closely, you notice that its more complicated.

The DMP-Z1 is more ketchup and mustard if you understand what i mean and i think the reason to this is because Sony tried to make an analog amp sound like an digital. Its as close as it gets and i think its a big part of its rather unique sound compared to other analog amp designs.

At least with the IER-M9 the TA-ZH1ES doesn't sound as exciting at first, but in the bass and especially in the treble, there is more depth. The highs are finer, more satiny but faster at the same time. The bass also has more depth to it and sounds just a tiny bit less compressed, it starts lower on the floor and creeps up spreading out more which make it sound less exciting at first.

The IER-M9 is my main and most important gear i own and to me personally, it shines more with the TA-ZH1ES, especially in terms of bass, treble and layering.

But (imho) the DMP-Z1 still is worth its money and an excellent choice, why not? It is not the worse device but that is not enough for the people who praise it. The DMP-Z1 is not supposed to be as good or different, is supposed to be better.

The DMP-Z1 has to be the ultimate and definitive device from Sony because it is the most expensive according to the people who own it. I mean, of course, they bought it due to that reason. But there are 1000€ Desktop Workstations that are better than 3000€ Notebooks. If you don't have to take any compromise on size/weight, you have more freedom to create whatever you want and often much cheaper. The DMP-Z1 needs to run of batteries because that is the whole deal after all and that causes limitations nobody can deny. Battery power is more limited but also does have its advantages. You get some, you loose some.

But batteries enable the DMP-Z1 to do things the TA-ZH1ES can't do.i just don't see it as the definitive device, that doesn't mean its not worth its money, nor does it mean it is bad or something similar.

And the interview, imho, showed exactly that. The guy asked "Why didn't you use the D.A. Hybrid Amp" and the answer was not "Because this is as good", the answer was "Because we couldn't, the batteries don't have enough voltage". That is key to me.

The separation of the two boards, the Alps Volume poti, those are all things that are needed because the DMP-Z1 uses an analog amp. Those are solutions to an problem the TA-ZH1ES doesn't have. The DMP-Z1 sends an digital Signal to the AKM DACs, and they output an analog signal that travels through several components inside the device while being analog and when it reaches the analog amp, travel through an feedback network to remove distortion at high output power. The S-Master gets an digital signal and outputs an analog signal. Everything is done inside the S-Master HX and that does have so many advantages to the sound quality but also the limitation, that the output power is defined by the capabilities of the MOSFET inside the S-Master, there is no Feedback system.

As Sony said in the TA-ZH1ES Interview, Digital Amps are an dead technology, there is nothing really you can improve, and Texas Instruments does have an similar opinion on it. Beside the output power, there is nothing you can do to digital amps, they are pretty much as perfect as it gets.

I just don't see a reason why any design decision inside the DMP-Z1 is helping it be better than the TA-ZH1ES. Almost everything inside the DMP-Z1 is totally designed around the limitation of an traditional DAC/AMP combo and not to be superior to the S-Master. Again the Alps, the two board, all this solves problems the TA-ZH1ES never had.

I personally see the DMP-Z1 as an portable version of the TA-ZH1ES the same way an Notebook is an portable Version of an Desktop. And as with Notebooks/Desktops, the DMP-Z1 does have the same advantages, limitations and the same typical portable tax, the price increase you pay for every device that is portable.


----------



## Rob49

Vamp898 said:


> The choice of Headphones is always very important anyway so of course, every statement i made was regarding the headphones/earphones i own and use.
> 
> To me, the DMP-Z1 doesn't sound as fast as the TA-ZH1ES. I have some songs where, with the IER-M9, you can really hear the TA-ZH1ES is faster.
> 
> ...


----------



## gerelmx1986

I think the TA weights more due to the transformer and power supply is built-in onto the device, unlike DMP, the power sipply is external (AC adaptor) and the use of TIs TPA vs a full analogue class A or AB amp in Tazzy


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## gerelmx1986

@pdL389  do you use the DSD-Remastering or not? I do like it but i am currently teating my DMP direct mode (DSD-RE off) just for curiosity and also sounds really good


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## pdL389

Direct mode all the way.


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## Blueoris

Apart of the now discontinued Sony Media Go, what other Music Management program can be used to send tracks and whole albums to the Internal memory of the DMP?


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Blueoris said:


> Apart of the now discontinued Sony Media Go, what other Music Management program can be used to send tracks and whole albums to the Internal memory of the DMP?


I have been always using mp3tag to tag everything up and then windows explorer to drag and drop the files over to the DMP


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## nanaholic

Vamp898 said:


> As Sony said in the TA-ZH1ES Interview, Digital Amps are an dead technology, there is nothing really you can improve, and Texas Instruments does have an similar opinion on it. Beside the output power, there is nothing you can do to digital amps, they are pretty much as perfect as it gets.



When did Sony ever said Digital Amps are dead? They merely said that with their CURRENT implementation in the S-Master they are power limited, but they never ruled out that in the future that limitation can be overcomed. 



Vamp898 said:


> I just don't see a reason why any design decision inside the DMP-Z1 is helping it be better than the TA-ZH1ES. Almost everything inside the DMP-Z1 is totally designed around the limitation of an traditional DAC/AMP combo and not to be superior to the S-Master. Again the Alps, the two board, all this solves problems the TA-ZH1ES never had.
> 
> I personally see the DMP-Z1 as an portable version of the TA-ZH1ES the same way an Notebook is an portable Version of an Desktop. And as with Notebooks/Desktops, the DMP-Z1 does have the same advantages, limitations and the same typical portable tax, the price increase you pay for every device that is portable.



You do realise the DA hybrid model in the TA amps corrects for noise with a pure D amp method which doesn't exists in the DAC/class A amp model in the DMP-Z1 right?  It's literally there in the interviews as why they implemented that.

You are ignoring that each design has its own merits and drawbacks and forcing your narrow view into the conclusion which you've already made up in your mind.....


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## nanaholic (Jan 7, 2022)

For the benefit of others let's quickly sum up the pros/cons of each implementation:

Class A: old but very well understood technology, as such any of the shortcomings of the design have some known way to correct for it. The major disadvantage is that it is highly inefficient (< 50%), so a lot of power is lost as heat. It's not an issue for a desktop application where you have constant power supply and have a big chassis to dissipate the heat, but in the Sony Walkman's team's mind, it is a major drawback as they want to aim for longer play time while not having to slap on a huge (>3000mAH) battery as well as keeping the player sleek, slim, and cool. Also a DAC/Class A topology is more complex, and since the signal path is analogue, is more susceptible to outside EMI especially in a small confined space.

Class D (S-Master): very efficient design in theory (>90%), design is less complex because of everything being packed into one package, thus also less susceptible to outside noise and EMI because it is an all digital path until the last mile (output to headphone). However it is inherently more "noisy" in its D>A conversion, and that its output power is limited. It is excellent for portable application, but is usually insufficient for high power demanding desktop application.

The Walkman team had already made the best device they can with the latest S-Master chip in the WM1Z which is only 2 years old when the DMP-Z1 was released, so internally it is even younger when the DMP-Z1 was in development. As they aren't going to have a new S-Master chip any time soon with increased power output, they cannot overcome the power limitation without doing something drastic with it. So instead of just sit on their ass and wait for new silicon to finish internally, the Walkman team decided to give the classic DAC/Class A topology a go and see what lessons they can learn from it by improving different areas of the signal path that's unrelated to the D to A portion, and apply that know-how to their next flagship Walkman. The flip side is also true - the Walkman team can also see whether the experiences they have with Class D applies to a Class A topology. Afterall, you have to dog food your own products to learn from them. That's what led to the DMP-Z1.

As for the home audio component team - the company has a new S-Master chip, so they also have to learn to use it and make products from it. So as a first test product they made the TA-ZH1ES - the company's FIRST desktop headphone amp. This venture allowed them to find the DA hybrid method in mitigating the shortcomings of using a pure Class D amp in a desktop situation. They also learned from this and has now created the Signature class SA-Z1 active speaker using the S-Master in the DA hybrid topology.

There's no "one ring to rule them all" here - each method has its place and depends on the application. The different team's willingness to test, learn, and release the products into the market allows them to grow and improve. When you think you've perfected something that's when you stop growing, and I'm glad the people at Sony don't have that mind set.


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## Blueoris

This TA-ZH1ES vs DMP discussion....
TA-ZH1ES is Sony's top device for indoor multipurpose audio in recent years.
DMP the one for indoor headphone audio.
NW WM1A/Z for mobile headphone audio.
It is expected they would have different components, architectures, performance and price points.


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## gerelmx1986

Blueoris said:


> Apart of the now discontinued Sony Media Go, what other Music Management program can be used to send tracks and whole albums to the Internal memory of the DMP?


Music Bee


----------



## efftee

Reading about the TA-ZH1ES vs DMP-Z1 discussion here is like having a recurring dream about a deja vu on Groundhog Day. Can I sum up the whole discussion this way:
1. For those who are contemplating purchasing either one of these devices, hear this -- (A) neither is portable, the DMP-Z1 is at best transportable though I cannot imagine anyone wanting to lug it around anywhere; (B) everyone hears things differently, that said, most everyone who has heard/owned both favors the DMP-Z1, and (C) you really should give both an audition despite what people here or anywhere is saying before coming to a decision. Happily, you should be able to test drive both devices with any of the Sony headphones and IEMS at a Sony showroom near you.
2. For those who already own the TA-ZH1ES and/or DMP-Z1, we know what we like, nothing more needs to be said.
3. For those who do not own or are not considering purchasing either TA-ZH1ES or DMP-Z1, there is enough literature and reviews to adequately serve the purpose of elucidation, there's no need to bring up minute details in a hair splitting exercise of dissecting every piece of component and parts to justify the cost or worth of the device for no real practical purpose. 

Maybe it's me, but I think there are also others here who are more interested in hearing how to make the DMP-Z1 sound even better or function even more efficiently than -- excuse the language -- the weekly intellectual masturbation that goes on about the TA-ZH1ES vs DMP-Z1 over and over and over again... jeez!


----------



## Rob49

efftee said:


> Reading about the TA-ZH1ES vs DMP-Z1 discussion here is like having a recurring dream about a deja vu on Groundhog Day.
> 
> Maybe it's me, but I think there are also others here who are more interested in hearing how to make the DMP-Z1 sound even better or function even more efficiently than -- excuse the language -- the weekly intellectual masturbation that goes on about the TA-ZH1ES vs DMP-Z1 over and over and over again... jeez!



It’s extremely tiring & constantly spoils the thread & it’s down to one person. Apparently rented the DMP-Z1 more than once ? ( & continues to claim that the TA is the better device to listen to. ) Spock, comes to mind, “That is illogical“. I have strong suspicions that said person, hasn’t actually rented it, that is, taken it home to audition. ( more than once. ) “illogical Captain”.


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## gerelmx1986

I love it both ways, direct and DSD-RE, both ways sounds nice and magical. There have been times i dont realiye i am direct and think i have DSD-RE on


----------



## nanaholic

efftee said:


> 1. For those who are contemplating purchasing either one of these devices, hear this -- (A) neither is portable, the DMP-Z1 is at best transportable though I cannot imagine anyone wanting to lug it around anywhere;



I've mentioned this before but the audio engineer Sato-san (there are two Sato-san on the Walkman team - the project leader and the audio engineer lead) carries his DMP-Z1 from his home in Chiba to the Sony office in central Tokyo on the train everyday when he was developing it and after the device is launched, he also has his own custom made Van Nuys carry case which he showed me at a small music festival where he was attending privately after work. 

The included official carrying case is nice looking but is more form over function (the handle strap is honestly not very comfortable for carrying), but with a backpack definitely you can carry the DMP-Z1 everywhere, you just have to be a bit crazy to do it. However with how sometimes you see people carrying IED-like portable rigs around to drive open over ear headphones out in the public, I absolutely believe Sato-san is not alone and some non-Sony related person is doing it as we speak.

This is also why I love the Sony Walkman team (and the other people involved in portable audio team in general, which of course includes Just ear product owner Matsuo-san too) - they are all crazy but in the good geeky/engineer way which really drives their passion to create and develop new things not just for the company to make money, but create something which they believe people will love.


----------



## cat3600

Rob49 said:


> It’s extremely tiring & constantly spoils the thread & it’s down to one person. Apparently rented the DMP-Z1 more than once ? ( & continues to claim that the TA is the better device to listen to. ) Spock, comes to mind, “That is illogical“. I have strong suspicions that said person, hasn’t actually rented it, that is, taken it home to audition. ( more than once. ) “illogical Captain”.


Bud I believe the person just shows up to troll so best ignore. But definitely this thread gets diluted by all the incessant trolling and the moderators should do something about it. And it seriously boils down to just one person on this tread literally, cheers!


----------



## Rob49

cat3600 said:


> Bud I believe the person just shows up to troll so best ignore. But definitely this thread gets diluted by all the incessant trolling and the moderators should do something about it. And it seriously boils down to just one person on this tread literally, cheers!



I’ve indicated what he or she is, in previous posts & because of that they will comeback time & time again & the best advice is to ignore, by not doing that you give them the constant supply they crave.


----------



## pdL389

nanaholic said:


> I've mentioned this before but the audio engineer Sato-san (there are two Sato-san on the Walkman team - the project leader and the audio engineer lead) carries his DMP-Z1 from his home in Chiba to the Sony office in central Tokyo on the train everyday when he was developing it and after the device is launched, he also has his own custom made Van Nuys carry case which he showed me at a small music festival where he was attending privately after work.
> 
> The included official carrying case is nice looking but is more form over function (the handle strap is honestly not very comfortable for carrying), but with a backpack definitely you can carry the DMP-Z1 everywhere, you just have to be a bit crazy to do it. However with how sometimes you see people carrying IED-like portable rigs around to drive open over ear headphones out in the public, I absolutely believe Sato-san is not alone and some non-Sony related person is doing it as we speak.
> 
> This is also why I love the Sony Walkman team (and the other people involved in portable audio team in general, which of course includes Just ear product owner Matsuo-san too) - they are all crazy but in the good geeky/engineer way which really drives their passion to create and develop new things not just for the company to make money, but create something which they believe people will love.


Love the Van Nuys case!


----------



## Halimj7

Vamp898 said:


> You have any explanation why that is so?
> 
> The TA-ZH1ES uses better hardware, please explain why the DMP-Z1 is better using the worse hardware according to Sony.
> 
> ...


I agree that technically DMP-Z1 is better but I do prefer the TA with Utopias - Z1 is too warm and punchy for Utopia imo.


----------



## Blueoris

> I agree that technically DMP-Z1 is better but I do prefer the TA with Utopias - Z1 is too warm and punchy for Utopia imo.


What headphones you do prefer with your Z1?


----------



## Halimj7

Blueoris said:


> What headphones you do prefer with your Z1?


Mysphere 3.1 and Ultrasone Edition 15! Perfect experiences. What about you?


----------



## pdL389

Halimj7 said:


> Mysphere 3.1 and Ultrasone Edition 15! Perfect experiences. What about you?


How would you describe bass on Mysphere 3.1 vs Utopia, please? Thanks!


----------



## Halimj7

pdL389 said:


> How would you describe bass on Mysphere 3.1 vs Utopia, please? Thanks!


Bass on 3.1 is fast but very lean. Impact is barely there. If you prefer the Utopias slam and impact all the time you won’t like the 3.1. I enjoy the 3.1 on the Z1 because of overall soundstage, separation and detail especially in the mids. The bass is not the star on the 3.1 but it adequate supports the mids and highs.


----------



## Blueoris

Halimj7 said:


> Mysphere 3.1 and Ultrasone Edition 15! Perfect experiences. What about you?


I've never heard the Z1, so I can't answer, but I hope I will join the group of Z1 owners someday 
That Myspehre 3.1 looks fantastic in pictures, and I was just reading that it is a demanding headphone to drive and that when is not properly controlled, its midrange can get shouty.
Amazing that the Z1 provides enough juice for it, I presume it is a result of the strong dynamics of the player, which may explain the reason you like the Utopia more with the more laid back and relaxed TA? Well, all this are my assumptions as I haven't heard the TA but according to what I have read about it, it may have less dynamic punch than the Z1.


----------



## Halimj7

Blueoris said:


> I've never heard the Z1, so I can't answer, but I hope I will join the group of Z1 owners someday
> That Myspehre 3.1 looks fantastic in pictures, and I was just reading that it is a demanding headphone to drive and that when is not properly controlled, its midrange can get shouty.
> Amazing that the Z1 provides enough juice for it, I presume it is a result of the strong dynamics of the player, which may explain the reason you like the Utopia more with the more laid back and relaxed TA? Well, all this are my assumptions as I haven't heard the TA but according to what I have read about it, it may have less dynamic punch than the Z1.


I agree with what you have said for the most part. The bass on DMP-Z1 is BIG. While the TA has great dynamic slam in the bass, the bass is not as large.


----------



## efftee

nanaholic said:


> I've mentioned this before but the audio engineer Sato-san (there are two Sato-san on the Walkman team - the project leader and the audio engineer lead) carries his DMP-Z1 from his home in Chiba to the Sony office in central Tokyo on the train everyday when he was developing it and after the device is launched, he also has his own custom made Van Nuys carry case which he showed me at a small music festival where he was attending privately after work.
> 
> The included official carrying case is nice looking but is more form over function (the handle strap is honestly not very comfortable for carrying), but with a backpack definitely you can carry the DMP-Z1 everywhere, you just have to be a bit crazy to do it. However with how sometimes you see people carrying IED-like portable rigs around to drive open over ear headphones out in the public, I absolutely believe Sato-san is not alone and some non-Sony related person is doing it as we speak.
> 
> This is also why I love the Sony Walkman team (and the other people involved in portable audio team in general, which of course includes Just ear product owner Matsuo-san too) - they are all crazy but in the good geeky/engineer way which really drives their passion to create and develop new things not just for the company to make money, but create something which they believe people will love.


Hats off to the Sato-sans and all who commutes with the Z1. My wife thinks I’m nuts lugging the _concrete slab_ between rooms! Though, I must admit, for the quality (build and sound) and price of the DMP-Z1 compared with the likes of dCS and Soulution, the integrated form factor (ie no stacks), somewhat reduced footprint and DC mode makes the Z1 practically a lot more (trans)portable. The Chord options are considerably more compact but to my ears, no question that the SQ is very good, the Chord house sound comes across a little _artificial _to me, like it’s been glossed over to make it prettier. I'm probably talking out of my ass but since I’m here, I’ll say that the ultimate DAP for me would be the DMP-Z1 that streams and plays DSD1024, or 512 at the least, in the form factor of the SP1000M. Yup.


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## cat3600 (Jan 8, 2022)

efftee said:


> Hats off to the Sato-sans and all who commutes with the Z1. My wife thinks I’m nuts lugging the _concrete slab_ between rooms! Though, I must admit, for the quality (build and sound) and price of the DMP-Z1 compared with the likes of dCS and Soulution, the integrated form factor (ie no stacks), somewhat reduced footprint and DC mode makes the Z1 practically a lot more (trans)portable. The Chord options are considerably more compact but to my ears, no question that the SQ is very good, the Chord house sound comes across a little _artificial _to me, like it’s been glossed over to make it prettier. I'm probably talking out of my ass but since I’m here, I’ll say that the ultimate DAP for me would be the DMP-Z1 that streams and plays DSD1024, or 512 at the least, in the form factor of the SP1000M. Yup.


You might want to check out the Fiio M17 thread 😉 if you are looking for a smaller form factor with all the streaming capabilities it could just be the best one.


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## gerelmx1986

My monthly burn-in pic. I’ve been accelerating burn-in by leaving it play at nights (on weekends only) due to the  upcoming meze Liric tour unit, kindly provided by @Andykong


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## cat3600 (Jan 8, 2022)

Happy weekend peeps wanted to thank all of you especially this group on my headphone audio journey. Little over a year ago I impulsively bought the DMP-Z1 my first such a device after the portable walkman/md/cd player days. I hardly used it and I wondered if it was an expensive mistake, I even briefly put it up for sale on the Canadian Canuck Audio site and thankfully got a few low ball offers so decided to take the listing down.

I was a long time lurker but then signed up on this forum and started interacting and posting and it has been a great revelation and journey. Since then I bought a few more DAPs and headphones and this has transformed slowly into a very different hobby from my home audio setups. Now I am finally realizing what all the fuss and obsession this hobby brings to an intimate way of listening to music...and making one broke in the process 😅 My poor wife just shakes her head and goes along with it!


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## gerelmx1986

cat3600 said:


> Happy weekend peeps wanted to thank all of you especially this group on my headphone audio journey. Little over a year ago I impulsively bought the DMP-Z1 my first such a device after the portable walkman/md/cd player days. I hardly used it and I wondered if it was an expensive mistake, I even briefly put it up for sale on the Canadian Canuck Audio site and thankfully got a few low ball offers so decided to take the listing down.
> 
> I was a long time lurker but then signed up on this forum and started interacting and posting and it has been a great revelation and journey. Since then I bought a few more DAPs and headphones and this has transformed slowly into a very different hobby from my home audio setups. Now I am finally realizing what all the fuss and obsession this hobby brings to an intimate way of listening to music...and making one broke in the process 😅 My poor wife just shakes her head and goes along with it!


I also thank these forums and my ex- for making me realize MP3/AAC sounds bad and go straightforward with flac and Hi-res / DSD files.

I also purchased my DMP-Z1 impulsively, after listening to it in Berlin and due to rumors (and induced panic or fear) of it being discontinued, mainly due to the extinction of AKM DACs after the fire.

My husband recently discovered i lied to him very professionally.

I placed order on amazon before my Birthday and made a Gift order as if my Father had giv n it to me… until a few weeks a go my hubby spied on my Bank account and asked about such transaction… hes still a bit angry.

And right now unable to save up, inflation in Germany (high food pricing) i cant collect the money i used to have before DMP purchase.


----------



## cat3600

gerelmx1986 said:


> I also thank these forums and my ex- for making me realize MP3/AAC sounds bad and go straightforward with flac and Hi-res / DSD files.
> 
> I also purchased my DMP-Z1 impulsively, after listening to it in Berlin and due to rumors (and induced panic or fear) of it being discontinued, mainly due to the extinction of AKM DACs after the fire.
> 
> ...


Thankfully my wife and me had the our jobs through these crazy last 2 years also we were lucky enough to invest in housing market many years back. Inflation is through the roof here too groceries especially its gone up 40% or more on a lot of stuff.

Nice birthday gift to yourself never regret, things will fall in place. I tell my wife what else to do with all these restrictions eat well, listen to music and enjoy audio lol. Thankfully she is not into hifi so she doesn't steal my stuff 😂


----------



## gerelmx1986

Most of my life i had Sony audio products from headphones like the NC6 and earbuds of the fontopia line .

I began in 2004 with a humble 1GB network walkman NW-E507 which had a cool monochrome OLED display.
In 2007 upgraded to an A818 8GB video/MP3 walkman.
2009 got sonys 30th anniversary walkman the X1060 - first to use S-master chip 32GB
Then 2011 came the break with sony DAPs with my iPod classic 160GB (peer pressure and bullying for not owning an iDevice), my transition to lossless began, after nearly 8y with mp3 192 and beliw haha
2013 got my first audiophile entry-level DAP, the fiio x3 OG.
After a brick incident with the fiio, went back to sony in 2014 with the NWZ-A17 64GB walkman, in that time i got my first non-sony HP, the Ultrasone HFI-780 and my first hybrid IEM XBA-H3. I sold it to get the NW-Zx100, XBA-A3 
In 2016 i got my MDR-Z7 / XBA-Z5 and NW-WM1A. Here i began with Hi-res flac and DSD.
Mid 2018 i got MDR-Z1R, sold Z7 . End 18 moved to Germany and married.
2019 started ripping SACDs and got IER-Z1R and IER-M7. And finally 2021 the DMP-Z1 and repurchased the NW-A25 walkman.


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## gerelmx1986

Hey @cat3600  regarding fiio M17 v DMP. HOw are the two devices in thickness. Length and width?

Also have you noted that when switching to Battery on DMP Volume decreases ? And in AC Mode is louder? For example i am notmally 9 o’clock in AC and toght now i am somewhere 10:15-10:30 on battery mode.

As if the DMP had an automatic higher gain…

Same happens with fiio M17 i when plugging unplugging the AC?


----------



## cat3600 (Jan 8, 2022)

gerelmx1986 said:


> Hey @cat3600  regarding fiio M17 v DMP. HOw are the two devices in thickness. Length and width?
> 
> Also have you noted that when switching to Battery on DMP Volume decreases ? And in AC Mode is louder? For example i am notmally 9 o’clock in AC and toght now i am somewhere 10:15-10:30 on battery mode.
> 
> ...


The M17 is much much smaller and lighter than the DMP no comparison. No increase in volume on the M17 Batt or AC power, however in AC mode there is an enhanced over the head headphone output available that changes the output volume slightly if selected. The M17 is almost the same size as Cayin C9 Amp.

The DMP I don't remember and changes in volume but these days I hardly listen to it on Batt it's always plugged into AC


----------



## gerelmx1986

cat3600 said:


> The M17 is much much smaller and lighter than the DMP no comparison. No increase in volume on the M17 Batt or AC power, however in AC mode there is an enhanced over the head headphone output available that changes the output volume slightly if selected. The M17 is almost the same size as Cayin C9 Amp.
> 
> The DMP I don't remember and changes in volume but these days I hardly listen to it on Batt it's always plugged into AC


I use my DMP on Battery once every month. So speaking one time every 30/31 days, i discharge it to 10%


----------



## efftee

cat3600 said:


> You might want to check out the Fiio M17 thread 😉 if you are looking for a smaller form factor with all the streaming capabilities it could just be the best one.


Thanks for the recommendation. I’ve been following the M17 threads; appears to be quite a formidable beast of a DAP! I plan on giving it a good audition at the next most opportune moment, but no rush since I have the 300Max, and I might add that I’m quite happy with it, I'm thinking if I really want another brick in my collection…


----------



## efftee

gerelmx1986 said:


> I also thank these forums and my ex- for making me realize MP3/AAC sounds bad and go straightforward with flac and Hi-res / DSD files.
> 
> I also purchased my DMP-Z1 impulsively, after listening to it in Berlin and due to rumors (and induced panic or fear) of it being discontinued, mainly due to the extinction of AKM DACs after the fire.
> 
> ...


So many things wrong in here, not going to comment since it's your life and all. If it’s any consolation, as important as money is, time and the experience you get out of it is worth much more. Hang in there, you’ll recover the money soon enough if you invest the needed effort. When it gets tough, you now have the source of good music to pull you through.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I plqyed yesterday in battery mode, i got 10 hours play time.
Conditions:
1. Only 16/44.1 FLAC, with a 3 minute exception used DSD-RE and last 30 minutes on random, two 24/96 FLACs popped up.
2. Direct all the way (DSD-RE off)
3. BT & NFC off
4. Minimal screen use

Unit was turned on while plugged in and hitting play on first track, then AC disinganged.
Battery ran from 100% to 10% before i enabled AC again. From 10% my battery drops 2% every 5 minutes, so if i had played until shutdown i would perhaps get 10 hours 25 to 30 minutes with above conditions

For me is pretty good battery life it’s a full transcontinental flight from mexico city to frankfurt or cancun to munich. Or a round-trip in the German bullet-train from Frankfurt central to Berlin central and back


----------



## gerelmx1986

gerelmx1986 said:


> I plqyed yesterday in battery mode, i got 10 hours play time.
> Conditions:
> 1. Only 16/44.1 FLAC, with a 3 minute exception used DSD-RE and last 30 minutes on random, two 24/96 FLACs popped up.
> 2. Direct all the way (DSD-RE off)
> ...


Round #1 from 13:35 to 19:05 (5 hours 30 minutes)
Round #2 20:34 to 01:04 the next day (4 hours 30 minutes)

I turned the unit off while my dinner break, then briefly plugged AC while init booted up


----------



## rlaxowjd155 (Jan 10, 2022)

I bought another new dmp for my home listening. The other for office.


----------



## MrWalkman

rlaxowjd155 said:


> I bought another new dmp for my home listening. The other for office.



Lol, nice man. I hope I'll manage to get one too someday, but it'll probably not happen 😄


----------



## gerelmx1986

gerelmx1986 said:


> Round #1 from 13:35 to 19:05 (5 hours 30 minutes)
> Round #2 20:34 to 01:04 the next day (4 hours 30 minutes)
> 
> I turned the unit off while my dinner break, then briefly plugged AC while init booted up


Forgot to mention that i used MDR-Z1R at areound 10:00-10:20 volume


----------



## gerelmx1986

rlaxowjd155 said:


> I bought another new dmp for my home listening. The other for office.


I had a dream that i had two SMP, one for home and one for trqvel. In the dream i was on a plane ctash and su vived but my dmp for travel sink at sea.

My real DMP stays at home, for travel i use a cheaper option like BW-A55


----------



## audionewbi

MrWalkman said:


> Lol, nice man. I hope I'll manage to get one too someday, but it'll probably not happen 😄


If I ever win the Lotto, rest assured I will get you one just a thank you for all the work you did for the WM1 group. Now time to win it!


----------



## gerelmx1986

I know that @nanaholic  has too some degree contact with walkman team.

So during my latest battery run i had some quewtions, one of them had @Gamerlingual  somehow addressed but I he manual is a little vague in the information provided.

1. When battery charge is 100% and plugged to AC, the charging is wtopped and battery shutdown? I ask as i note when tuening on and du ing boot where the sony logo and wavy lines appear the indicator light chqng w to orange briefly and then back to green.

2. While pn AC piwer dors the DMP increase rails voltage? I note that when on Batt the volume drops (not so significant but it does drop) and in AC volume is louder

3. Manual states up  to 2TB micro SD card. Is that meant 2x 1.0TB, or for real 2x 2.0TB (whopping 4TB of space plus 230.60GB)?


----------



## gerelmx1986

There’s a Bug on sony Media Go. I formatted a micro SD card on my DMP to tranfer my audiophile headphone test tracks playlist. To speed things up decided to take the card on an SD adapter.

All hi-res audio is converted to 128kbps MP3 on the card. Formatted the card again and let ot onside DMP, this time all Hi-res audio was transferred as is.

Then i did another card on my NW-A25, which does not support DSD, these files were all converted on the 400GB card inside A25 to 24-bit / 176.4 kHz foac wirh no filter for ultrasonic noise


----------



## gerelmx1986

@Whitigir  how are the 5 batteries of the DMP being charged/discharged? I know on the Ibasso DX300/220MAX/300MAX they ar charg d independently and therefore also charged ind pendetly. The bad of the ibasso approach if you run put of digital battery first. The analog is left partially charged, qnd if you run out of analog battery you still have device On but no sound LOL.

Do the sony SMP share charge if one side gets low faster than the other , f.e. If digiyal or analog charges either of if theyre going low.

I ask this as DMP has a single battery indicator for all 5, while ibasso has a gauge for Analog and a gauge for Digital. Also i noted at around 11% charge the gauge drops by 2% for every 5 minutes


----------



## gerelmx1986

gerelmx1986 said:


> Well tried it and WOOOOOWWW.
> 
> wow aimply is ow ried with my IER-M7 quad BA iem and the sound stage wow wow wpw . The bass and all frequencies better, aussenly the bass became like a DD hard hitting bass.
> Some vivaldi albums that i tought they sisnt have so much stage... aussenly became spacious . The separation esp pn the Haydn symphonies wow.
> ...


Now at 510 burn in the albim i tested moat lengthy pops on my own DMP sounds equally amazing, only difference is that in berlin i used Quad BA IER-M7 and now MDR-Z1R


----------



## Rob49

A major problem. As of last night & first thing this morning, my player won’t charge, or the switching display from AC to battery. I’m wondering if I’ve damaged this part of the cable ?? It’s got tangled up a couple of times & I had tugged at the cable to free it. ( Not thinking ! )

Is there anything in the settings I can check ?? Would Sony send a replacement power unit, ( Nearly 6 months old. ) or do you think i’d have to return the player ?? ( Which would be a pain ! )


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> A major problem. As of last night & first thing this morning, my player won’t charge, or the switching display from AC to battery. I’m wondering if I’ve damaged this part of the cable ?? It’s got tangled up a couple of times & I had tugged at the cable to free it. ( Not thinking ! )
> 
> Is there anything in the settings I can check ?? Would Sony send a replacement power unit, ( Nearly 6 months old. ) or do you think i’d have to return the player ?? ( Which would be a pain ! )


Try to source a sony (VAIO) laptop charger, they use same AC plug dimensions and confifuration (inside Positive, outside negative). I. An charge my DMP with my vaio laptop charger which is 19.7V as well. And 2.30A


----------



## efftee

Rob49 said:


> A major problem. As of last night & first thing this morning, my player won’t charge, or the switching display from AC to battery. I’m wondering if I’ve damaged this part of the cable ?? It’s got tangled up a couple of times & I had tugged at the cable to free it. ( Not thinking ! )
> 
> Is there anything in the settings I can check ?? Would Sony send a replacement power unit, ( Nearly 6 months old. ) or do you think i’d have to return the player ?? ( Which would be a pain ! )


Very sorry to hear, hope the cold turkey hasn't set in yet! The quickest thing to do is to bring the unit to a Sony showroom where you could plug your Z1 in with one their demo Z1 charger and see if it charges.

If yes, well, you could ask to buy a charging unit or shop for a 3rd party one as long as the voltage/wattage/amperage and jack size are all the same, it should charge the Z1.

If no, then you could get some expert opinion there on what to do next.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Semding the player back is not a good option as i have seen in many sony stores apparently out of stock as discontinued


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Try to source a sony (VAIO) laptop charger, they use same AC plug dimensions and confifuration (inside Positive, outside negative). I. An charge my DMP with my vaio laptop charger which is 19.7V as well. And 2.30A



Thanks will look into that. Sounds like they might be difficult to source ??


efftee said:


> Very sorry to hear, hope the cold turkey hasn't set in yet! The quickest thing to do is to bring the unit to a Sony showroom where you could plug your Z1 in with one their demo Z1 charger and see if it charges.
> 
> If yes, well, you could ask to buy a charging unit or shop for a 3rd party one as long as the voltage/wattage/amperage and jack size are all the same, it should charge the Z1.
> 
> If no, then you could get some expert opinion there on what to do next.



Well after passing the 1210 hours play last night & first realising that it hadn’t calculated the minutes played again, I know feel like a very sad turkey !

I’m housebound and at a guess the nearest Sony dealer is probably 10 miles away, without checking ?

I’ll ring Sony support & see what they say. No doubt they will say I’ll have to return the unit, which you can imagine would be a pain, due to my circumstances.


----------



## efftee

Rob49 said:


> Thanks will look into that. Sounds like they might be difficult to source ??
> 
> 
> Well after passing the 1210 hours play last night & first realising that it hadn’t calculated the minutes played again, I know feel like a very sad turkey !
> ...


Rob, your unit should still be under warranty at 6 months. Sony is a big brand; if it's the fault of the charger, you could fully expect them to fix or replace it. If it's the Z1 unit itself, they also liable to fix it. Nothing to worry about. Meanwhile, go have a fling or 6 with other players, it'll be fun, c'mon!


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Thanks will look into that. Sounds like they might be difficult to source ??
> 
> 
> Well after passing the 1210 hours play last night & first realising that it hadn’t calculated the minutes played again, I know feel like a very sad turkey !
> ...


Maybe didficult, try looking at ebay for a sony laptop AC adapter 19.5V, 2.35A max. Or if youre lu for a broken sony laptop.

My neareat sony shop is 450km away


----------



## MrWalkman

Rob49 said:


> A major problem. As of last night & first thing this morning, my player won’t charge, or the switching display from AC to battery. I’m wondering if I’ve damaged this part of the cable ?? It’s got tangled up a couple of times & I had tugged at the cable to free it. ( Not thinking ! )
> 
> Is there anything in the settings I can check ?? Would Sony send a replacement power unit, ( Nearly 6 months old. ) or do you think i’d have to return the player ?? ( Which would be a pain ! )



If you'd have a cheap multimeter, you could check the DC voltage at the charger's connector.


----------



## efftee

gerelmx1986 said:


> My neareat sony shop is 450km away


Man, I really feel for you guys. The main Sony centre where I am is 4.5km away and I'd be looking for a subsidiary showroom that's closer; I'd expect to speak with the Sony CEO himself if I had to travel 450km! Sorry, didn't mean to rub it in. You'd probably stick it to me about how long it takes to send my watch back to A Lange & Sohne to have some small thing fixed...


----------



## Rob49 (Jan 18, 2022)

Thanks for all your replies, guys. I had my carer here, so couldn’t ring the regional repair centre till she left. The outcome is that they will ring back at some point & they can collect the unit. So that’s a relief in my personal situation.

This has hit home, about the decision to buy such an expensive item. Hopefully they can resolve the issue & it isn’t terminal ! ??

( Perhaps my player can’t cope with 50 - 70 hours playback per week ! )


----------



## efftee

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for all your replies, guys. I had my carer here, so couldn’t ring the regional repair centre till she left. The outcome is that they will ring back at some point & they can collect the unit. So that’s a relief in my personal situation.
> 
> This has hit home, about the decision to buy such an expensive item. Hopefully they can resolve the issue & it isn’t terminal ! ??
> 
> ( Perhaps my player can’t cope with 50 - 70 hours playback per week ! )


Relax. Stop worrying. It will get fixed and your universe will be complete again.


----------



## Rob49

efftee said:


> Relax. Stop worrying. It will get fixed and your universe will be complete again.



Not sure about the latter ! lol Looks like my ZX300 & other Walkman’s are going to get some usage again now…..


----------



## Rob49 (Jan 19, 2022)

The regional repair centre phoned to say they could not repair my DMP-Z1 & after more phone calls back to Sony, I was given another phone number to ring. The outcome being to send proof of purchase & a returns form via e mail, which I have done.

In the meantime, while I’m waiting for a reply, I wondered if it’s possible that I may have blown the fuse in the plug ?? I have used my DMP in an extension track & used an extension reel. Is there a possibility it could have blown the fuse ??

One thing I’m just noticing is that the remaining charge is dropping very quickly, in the matter of minutes & I’m pretty sure charge didn’t drop so quickly previously, so perhaps it’s not something as simple as a blown plug fuse ?

Charge is literally dropping 2% in the matter of not even getting to the end of one song.


----------



## efftee

Rob49 said:


> The regional repair centre phoned to say they could not repair my DMP-Z1 & after more phone calls back to Sony, I was given another phone number to ring. The outcome being to send proof of purchase & a returns form via e mail, which I have done.
> 
> In the meantime, while I’m waiting for a reply, I wondered if it’s possible that I may have blown the fuse in the plug ?? I have used my DMP in an extension track & used an extension reel. Is there a possibility it could have blown the fuse ??
> 
> ...


Did they not say what was wrong with it? Maybe you can ask to speak with a techie? Even though they will replace it, it's good to know what caused it so it's a lesson that everyone can note and perhaps avoid...


----------



## Rob49

efftee said:


> Did they not say what was wrong with it? Maybe you can ask to speak with a techie? Even though they will replace it, it's good to know what caused it so it's a lesson that everyone can note and perhaps avoid...



They only asked in the initial contact to Sony U.K. ( On the returns form it obviously asks what the fault is. ) Just now in the process of packing it back up, which is fun, because I’ve never been able to get the power cable back in the compartment. Patience ! lol


----------



## Rob49

When I finished packing it back up earlier this morning, just as I’d sealed the box, I received an e mail & txt to say they would be collecting tomorrow. So that’s a very prompt service. Can’t fault that, at all.
Going back to my Walkman’s last night, makes you realise the difference in sound quality with the DMP-Z1. Will be glad to get it back & hoping it’s nothing major ?? It’s odd how it was perfectly fine one minute, then the next…..


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> The regional repair centre phoned to say they could not repair my DMP-Z1 & after more phone calls back to Sony, I was given another phone number to ring. The outcome being to send proof of purchase & a returns form via e mail, which I have done.
> 
> In the meantime, while I’m waiting for a reply, I wondered if it’s possible that I may have blown the fuse in the plug ?? I have used my DMP in an extension track & used an extension reel. Is there a possibility it could have blown the fuse ??
> 
> ...


Do tou mean this fuse? It can be replaced


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Do tou mean this fuse? It can be replaced



Yes, but it’s packed up now, ready to be collected tomorrow. The way the remaining charge was decreasing so quickly, suggests something else other than a blown fuse. The last time I used battery, I was still getting over 7 hours playback. One minute my player was fine & the next, as I said.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Sony would be doing too kuvh of a fuss if it was the fuse….

@Rob49  your battery drops by 1%? So soes mine at about 10% every 5 minutes drops by 2%. Note that i dont use DSD-RE on battery


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Sony would be doing too kuvh of a fuss if it was the fuse….
> 
> @Rob49  your battery drops by 1%? So soes mine at about 10% every 5 minutes drops by 2%. Note that i dont use DSD-RE on battery



Well I hope it isn’t the fuse, because obviously going to trouble for Sony & myself to return it. I have 5 amp & 13 amp fuses here, but no 3 amp.

The charge just seemed to be dropping rapidly to me, perhaps it was just the same as ever, but anyway see what Sony find out ?


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Well I hope it isn’t the fuse, because obviously going to trouble for Sony & myself to return it. I have 5 amp & 13 amp fuses here, but no 3 amp.
> 
> The charge just seemed to be dropping rapidly to me, perhaps it was just the same as ever, but anyway see what Sony find out ?


Are your still in warranty ?


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Are your still in warranty ?



Yes, 6 months old. ( nearly )


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Yes, 6 months old. ( nearly )


Wow, I hardly see any Sony products that need warranty that quick.  Hope your turned out fine.  Best of luck !


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Wow, I hardly see any Sony products that need warranty that quick.  Hope your turned out fine.  Best of luck !



I own lots of Sony products & other manufacturers & I’ve never had anything go wrong. Ironically, it would now, being the most expensive product I’ve ever purchased. ( & thanks. I feel anxious about the outcome ? )


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> I own lots of Sony products & other manufacturers & I’ve never had anything go wrong. Ironically, it would now, being the most expensive product I’ve ever purchased. ( & thanks. I feel anxious about the outcome ? )


Within warranty, you should be just fine. I am more interested in their findings, wonder if they will disclose it


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Within warranty, you should be just fine. I am more interested in their findings, wonder if they will disclose it



Well, I will be asking. It’s really hard not being able to listen. It hasn’t’t been collected yet & already missing it !


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Well, I will be asking. It’s really hard not being able to listen. It hasn’t’t been collected yet & already missing it !


And how long thwy estimate dor an outcome?


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> And how long thwy estimate dor an outcome?



I have no idea.


----------



## gerelmx1986

@Rob49  i hooe you get the issue solved without any further problems.

I see on sony Germany , sony USA and UK that the DMP has mo price and it says notify me when available or for our bewt offer click here (but soes nothing)


----------



## Rob49

Thanks @gerelmx1986 i hope so !


----------



## cat3600

Rob49 said:


> Well, I will be asking. It’s really hard not being able to listen. It hasn’t’t been collected yet & already missing it !


I have used Sony warranty once for a Sony HAP-Z1ES player and other time I used it for one of their noise canceling headphones both times they were super efficient and quick. Sony warranty on their ES products especially have been always very good and the DMP is a flagship device so they will take care of you, not to worry.


----------



## cat3600

I had taken a bit of break from this group and headphones generally. Was busy picking up some new home audio stuff as I was looking for a change in my system. I am getting McIntosh MC1.25KW Power amps and C1100 pre-amp, will be picking them up Friday and will be my first McIntosh system.

My wife has already refused to help me carry them from the car to the house as each mono amplifier is 158 lbs with box 178 Ibs lol.


----------



## efftee

cat3600 said:


> I had taken a bit of break from this group and headphones generally. Was busy picking up some new home audio stuff as I was looking for a change in my system. I am getting McIntosh MC1.25KW Power amps and C1100 pre-amp, will be picking them up Friday and will be my first McIntosh system.
> 
> My wife has already refused to help me carry them from the car to the house as each mono amplifier is 158 lbs with box 178 Ibs lol.


Consider yourself lucky your wife even let those ugly things in the house haha! Enjoy them in good health.


----------



## Rob49

cat3600 said:


> I have used Sony warranty once for a Sony HAP-Z1ES player and other time I used it for one of their noise canceling headphones both times they were super efficient and quick. Sony warranty on their ES products especially have been always very good and the DMP is a flagship device so they will take care of you, not to worry.



Thanks for your reassurance. Yes, they are super efficient, so far. My player is being collected this morning & I’m hoping I don’t have to wait too long for it’s return.


----------



## gerelmx1986

bmichels said:


> agree, "*battery operated Transportable*" is the key word.


For your tiltable screen desires… AK Acro CA1000?


----------



## Blueoris

DMP owners, I had a look and I am not not sure if this has been discussed before: how do you take care of the unit batteries? Do you listen mostly while connected to the mains and use the battery only for special occasions? Or do you run the unit mostly on batteries but making sure you keep the batteries between specific charging ranges to minimise number of full charge cycles (e.g. operating the unit while the battery is between 90% and 40%) etc?


----------



## Redcarmoose

cat3600 said:


> I had taken a bit of break from this group and headphones generally. Was busy picking up some new home audio stuff as I was looking for a change in my system. I am getting McIntosh MC1.25KW Power amps and C1100 pre-amp, will be picking them up Friday and will be my first McIntosh system.
> 
> My wife has already refused to help me carry them from the car to the house as each mono amplifier is 158 lbs with box 178 Ibs lol.


----------



## Vamp898

Blueoris said:


> DMP owners, I had a look and I am not not sure if this has been discussed before: how do you take care of the unit batteries? Do you listen mostly while connected to the mains and use the battery only for special occasions? Or do you run the unit mostly on batteries but making sure you keep the batteries between specific charging ranges to minimise number of full charge cycles (e.g. operating the unit while the battery is between 90% and 40%) etc?





> This player is equipped with a function to avoid battery deterioration.





> The battery indicator does not correspond exactly to the remaining battery level. Refer to the battery indicator as a guide.


So i assume 100% is not 100% and 0% is not really 0%. I'd say just plug it in when you're on the last bar and charge until fully charged.


> Once the battery is fully charged, discharging will start. Discharging continues over a long period of time until the battery runs out.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Blueoris said:


> DMP owners, I had a look and I am not not sure if this has been discussed before: how do you take care of the unit batteries? Do you listen mostly while connected to the mains and use the battery only for special occasions? Or do you run the unit mostly on batteries but making sure you keep the batteries between specific charging ranges to minimise number of full charge cycles (e.g. operating the unit while the battery is between 90% and 40%) etc?


I operate my Unit on AC Power and only once per month run on Battery mode from 100% to 20%. There is no battery care feature on DMP, inlike on walkmans you can set this on to charge to 90%.

While running on Battery i use Direct mode anget 10 hours


----------



## gerelmx1986

I lost 3 hours  u wterday and the device was on all the time. For one moment i checked and had 581 and went back in the moght to 578:45

@Rob49 any news from your player?


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I lost 3 hours  u wterday and the device was on all the time. For one moment i checked and had 581 and went back in the moght to 578:45
> 
> @Rob49 any news from your player?



No, nothing as yet. Will post as soon as I know something.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Signature Series products for warranty service should be handled by the dealer. Customers should not go through standard Sony customer support or repair centers. The authorized dealer have a direct phone line to Sony Premium Products support and connection to Sony engineers on the Signature Series product. 

Let the dealer where you bought the product from handle repairs and warranty claims. That's their job as a Sony Premium Products dealer.


----------



## gerelmx1986

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Signature Series products for warranty service should be handled by the dealer. Customers should not go through standard Sony customer support or repair centers. The authorized dealer have a direct phone line to Sony Premium Products support and connection to Sony engineers on the Signature Series product.
> 
> Let the dealer where you bought the product from handle repairs and warranty claims. That's their job as a Sony Premium Products dealer.


And if you bought it through amazon?


----------



## Rob49 (Jan 28, 2022)

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Signature Series products for warranty service should be handled by the dealer. Customers should not go through standard Sony customer support or repair centers. The authorized dealer have a direct phone line to Sony Premium Products support and connection to Sony engineers on the Signature Series product.
> 
> Let the dealer where you bought the product from handle repairs and warranty claims. That's their job as a Sony Premium Products dealer.



I purchased from Amazon. My player has been confirmed as received by Sony regional centre in the U.K. I expect them to sort it out. ( I was given their contact, because the regional repair centre, says it is a specialised product & they wouldn’t be able to repair it. )

Thanks for causing anxiety, now !


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I purchased from Amazon. My player has been confirmed as received by Sony regional centre in the U.K. I expect them to sort it out. ( I was given their contact, because the regional repair centre, says it is a specialised product & they wouldn’t be able to repair it. )
> 
> Thanks for causing anxiety, now !


Why you didn’t contact amazon firet?


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Why you didn’t contact amazon firet?



It did cross my mind, briefly, but I hadn’t taken out any cover on it with them. It’s still under warranty & Sony should sort it out. They asked for proof of purchase, so if they thought it should have gone back to Amazon, then surely they should have said.


----------



## Wikinaut

Rob49 said:


> It did cross my mind, briefly, but I hadn’t taken out any cover on it with them. It’s still under warranty & Sony should sort it out. They asked for proof of purchase, so if they thought it should have gone back to Amazon, then surely they should have said.


I doubt Amazon would have been of much help here. They are optimized for the 99.99% case (returns) and everything else is nearly impossible. 

Fingers crossed Sony sorts this out for you!


----------



## gerelmx1986

Wikinaut said:


> I doubt Amazon would have been of much help here. They are optimized for the 99.99% case (returns) and everything else is nearly impossible.
> 
> Fingers crossed Sony sorts this out for you!


Min  start to pass the peak Burn-in and sounding less mood-swing like haha at almoat 620H but n in. This weekend will be the last i let it play  overnight


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Min  start to pass the peak Burn-in and sounding less mood-swing like haha at almoat 620H but n in. This weekend will be the last i let it play  overnight


 Why don’t you just listen to it ? I’ve listened to every minute of the 1.214 hours I’d amassed.


----------



## Rob49

Wikinaut said:


> I doubt Amazon would have been of much help here. They are optimized for the 99.99% case (returns) and everything else is nearly impossible.
> 
> Fingers crossed Sony sorts this out for you!



I would have thought so. I’ll ring Sony this time next week, if I haven’t heard anything.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Why don’t you just listen to it ? I’ve listened to every minute of the 1.214 hours I’d amassed.


I am accelerating burn in partly because of an upcoming Review unit ot Meze Liric


----------



## gerelmx1986

When will Sandisk release 2TB micro SDs? My t o 1TB are woth and 186GB and 179GB free space


----------



## Rob49 (Jan 29, 2022)

I’ve just had an e mail update from Sony saying, “Repair is taking longer than normally expected”.

I have replied & asked if they could indicate what has caused the fault, or what has gone wrong & what needs fixing ?


----------



## gerelmx1986

This night us the last i  leave the DMP in overnight burn-in. At 650h i think it has reached optimal level of performance for the meze LIRIC review


----------



## Rob49

My DMP-Z1 requires spare parts & I’ve been given a estimate of 5 working days.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> My DMP-Z1 requires spare parts & I’ve been given a estimate of 5 working days.


Mine shutdown today for om itself after UNPLUGGING IEM  from balanced jack while it was playing MUSIC. After tuening I back on a message popped that the aunit had shutdown itself b cause insupported headphones were plugged in


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Mine shutdown today for om itself after UNPLUGGING IEM  from balanced jack while it was playing MUSIC. After tuening I back on a message popped that the aunit had shutdown itself b cause insupported headphones were plugged in



Doesn’t that typically happen when you unplug headphones ? You know, the volume caution, that you have to turn to zero, before plugging back in. Not sure about seeing a message though ? I’m sure it’s nothing to worry about ?

Anyway, I’ve had a further update…..so after just under 6 months & 1.214 hours played, the battery & mother board need to be replaced. They are waiting for the parts.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Doesn’t that typically happen when you unplug headphones ? You know, the volume caution, that you have to turn to zero, before plugging back in. Not sure about seeing a message though ? I’m sure it’s nothing to worry about ?
> 
> Anyway, I’ve had a further update…..so after just under 6 months & 1.214 hours played, the battery & mother board need to be replaced. They are waiting for the parts.


Hopefully alp goes well with yours.

Mineiw okay, i had always inplugged Hap and this one as the first time it said so that unsupported t d headphon s were plugged in. N st time i Punkte it on pause and lower the volume to zero


----------



## gerelmx1986

@Rob49  which motherboard needs replacement, digitql , analogue or the battery controller?


----------



## MrWalkman

gerelmx1986 said:


> @Rob49  which motherboard needs replacement, digitql , analogue or the battery controller?



I don't think they'll offer specifics.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> @Rob49  which motherboard needs replacement, digitql , analogue or the battery controller?



Just had more detailed info :

BATTERY, LITHIUM ION STORAGE.
HOLDER ANALOG BATTERY ASSY.
SVX MAIN PC BOARD ASSY.


----------



## MrWalkman

Something like this I guess:



Rob49 said:


> HOLDER ANALOG BATTERY ASSY.










Rob49 said:


> BATTERY, LITHIUM ION STORAGE.


----------



## gerelmx1986

MrWalkman said:


> Something like this I guess:


Wher i can i download the service manual for DMP-Z1?


----------



## Rob49

MrWalkman said:


> Something like this I guess:



Perhaps it couldn’t cope with the daily usage ! ?? Seriously, I hope this doesn’t happen again, especially if it happens out of warranty.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Perhaps it couldn’t cope with the daily usage ! ?? Seriously, I hope this doesn’t happen again, especially if it happens out of warranty.


Did you had it connected to a crowded power strip (extension)? Was there a thunderstorm that may caused a power surge?


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Did you had it connected to a crowded power strip (extension)? Was there a thunderstorm that may caused a power surge?



It had been plugged into an extension, purely because of the logistics of my main seating, or I should say recliner position. It may be wise to find a solution where I can plug into a socket without using an extension. No thunderstorms.


----------



## Calfredo826

Announcement on the horizon


----------



## Rob49

Calfredo826 said:


> Announcement on the horizon


 Oh my ! What does this mean ?? ( Not that I can buy anything else, after my DMP-Z1. )


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Oh my ! What does this mean ?? ( Not that I can buy anything else, after my DMP-Z1. )


I think is a new DAP walkman


----------



## bmichels

Calfredo826 said:


> Announcement on the horizon


The succesor to the DMP-Z1 ?  with a large screen, Digital line-out and Wifi-Streaming   ?    Can someone read Japanese and tell us what is writen ?


----------



## MrWalkman (Feb 2, 2022)

The assumption is that in the image we can see all Signature Series devices except WM1A and WM1Z, so it should be about the upcoming update for these players.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I think is a new DAP walkman



It’s got to be more than that. It says on Sony U.K. “Walk to the next level of sound”.


bmichels said:


> The succesor to the DMP-Z1 ?  with a large screen, Digital line-out and Wifi-Streaming   ?    Can someone read Japanese and tell us what is writen ?



I think it could very well be the successor to the DMP-Z1 & I’d say across the board of the “signature series”.


----------



## Rob49

MrWalkman said:


> The assumption is that in the image we can see all Signature Series devices except WM1A and WM1Z, so it should be about the upcoming update for these players.



Thinking about it, the slogan gives a big clue, as in “Walk” ( Walkman, of course. )


----------



## gerelmx1986

I don’t think a DMP succesor will come. It ia dor me one of these inique sony products never to be made again


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I don’t think a DMP succesor will come. It ia dor me one of these inique sony products never to be made again



It would be ironic if there was, considering we have both recently purchased, after a long time of deciding.

”the next level of sound” is intriguing. It suggests something new / different, an upgrade ??


----------



## MrWalkman

Rob49 said:


> It would be ironic if there was, considering we have both recently purchased, after a long time of deciding.
> 
> ”the next level of sound” is intriguing. It suggests something new / different, an upgrade ??



Probably better hardware, maybe with increased output power?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> It would be ironic if there was, considering we have both recently purchased, after a long time of deciding.
> 
> ”the next level of sound” is intriguing. It suggests something new / different, an upgrade ??


I am thinking of a walkman or two given the tagline starts with Walk , DMP wasn’t really meant to be that portable, rather carriable


----------



## newworld666

MrWalkman said:


> Probably better hardware, maybe with increased output power?


 
Let's hope the DAP can be a DLNA Renderer for our smartphone/iphone (with native DSD & Full FLAC support)
And maybe this time, being a LDAC BT receiver but with some possible access to an external USB-C DAC at the same time.

And of course the replacement of the actual connector with two USB-C connectors (one for power input and the other for data transmission, including to an external DAC)


----------



## gerelmx1986

I am sort of Hyped and like i don’t care at the same time haha…. Mainly because i have the DMP and i don’t want android walkman


----------



## MrWalkman

newworld666 said:


> Let's hope the DAP can be a DLNA Renderer for our smartphone/iphone (with native DSD & Full FLAC support)
> And maybe this time, being a LDAC BT receiver but with some possible access to an external USB-C DAC at the same time.
> 
> And of course the replacement of the actual connector with two USB-C connectors (one for power input and the other for data transmission, including to an external DAC)



It's possible that they kept the BT Receiver function for these upcoming successors of the 1A/1Z. Maybe some time after the devices will be released, they will do a software update to add this function to ZX507/A105 too.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> It would be ironic if there was, considering we have both recently purchased, after a long time of deciding.
> 
> ”the next level of sound” is intriguing. It suggests something new / different, an upgrade ??


I hope yours gets returned soon to you again. O am using mine normal again


----------



## newworld666 (Feb 2, 2022)

gerelmx1986 said:


> I am sort of Hyped and like i don’t care at the same time haha…. Mainly because i have the DMP and i don’t want android walkman


Of course, we don't need an android Walkman .. I just want same DAP (the longest battery life on the way) as now with being able to be a WIFI DLNA renderer as they already are able to be BT receivers ... but this time allowing an external DAC support at the same time.
It should be the best partner of my Smartphone on the way and be able to be my central point at home when I plug it on the cradle to receive trough BT or Wifi music files from my computer, smartphone, tablet and just send them directly to my permanent desktop DAC and desktop AMP to feed my HEDDphone One or DCA Stealth...

No need for android or IOS at all... my Galaxy Z Fold 3 is already perfect for everything except decode DSD or FLAC files like Sony can do so well including with some small DSP adjustments.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I hope yours gets returned soon to you again. O am using mine normal again



Thanks. I’m missing it a lot, but I was having a conversation with my brother last night, telling him the parts that have gone wrong & him explaining how components get warm inside & I think I need to reduce my daily usage a bit. Averaging 8 - 13 hours a day, is probably why the parts have failed ??


----------



## Calfredo826

I don’t think it’s a DMP successor. Wording kinda hints at what’s to come and DMP is not considered part of the Walkman family.


----------



## Rob49 (Feb 3, 2022)

Calfredo826 said:


> I don’t think it’s a DMP successor. Wording kinda hints at what’s to come and DMP is not considered part of the Walkman family.



Although, they do place it in their Walkman category on their product page, probably because they don’t quite know where to place it, given it’s not something you can‘t put in your jeans pocket. Either way, it’s exciting to have new products, which we haven’t had for some time now, I guess largely due to the Pandemic situation, but of course these new developments take time, regardless.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Thanks. I’m missing it a lot, but I was having a conversation with my brother last night, telling him the parts that have gone wrong & him explaining how components get warm inside & I think I need to reduce my daily usage a bit. Averaging 8 - 13 hours a day, is probably why the parts have failed ??


Maybe the lication you put it (i assume under AV receiver/Amp, TV receiver) can be quite warm, mine is alway at the glass table we use to eat or at the bedside Table, u s i have felt mine warm, but not hor


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Maybe the lication you put it (i assume under AV receiver/Amp, TV receiver) can be quite warm, mine is alway at the glass table we use to eat or at the bedside Table, u s i have felt mine warm, but not hor


 It’s placed at my side on a nest of tables. I keep it away from other equipment. It’s never been hot to touch, or even noticing anything in the way of warmth. If anything it feels quite cold.


----------



## Wikinaut

MrWalkman said:


> The assumption is that in the image we can see all Signature Series devices except WM1A and WM1Z, so it should be about the upcoming update for these players.



I'm eager to see what new toys they have in store for us!


----------



## hoofman

Wikinaut said:


> I'm eager to see what new toys they have in store for us!


People are speculating that it'll be a new Android-based Walkman DAP. The main thread for that event is created here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-walkman-thread-2022-successors-to-the-wm1a-wm1z.961951/


----------



## nanaholic

Most definitely a new Walkman as a successor to the WM1 series. You can see the teaser picture that every Signature Series product is present except for the WM1 Walkmans.


----------



## hoofman

DMP-Z1 owners, what do you think about the idea of an Android-based DMP? I disliked Android-based DAP mainly because of battery life but then the DMP is much bigger so I don't know.


----------



## Blueoris

Rob49 said:


> Thanks. I’m missing it a lot, but I was having a conversation with my brother last night, telling him the parts that have gone wrong & him explaining how components get warm inside & I think I need to reduce my daily usage a bit. Averaging 8 - 13 hours a day, is probably why the parts have failed ??


Your usage time should be OK, but you could ask the question to Sony. if the issue was temperature related, I think you should have noticed your DMP getting very hot during usage, like hotter than when some batteries get warm during charging? Unless you used to play music in a really hot temperature environment, with the DMP under direct sun light while charging the battery, I think it was just bad luck


----------



## Hinomotocho

Rob49 said:


> Thanks. I’m missing it a lot, but I was having a conversation with my brother last night, telling him the parts that have gone wrong & him explaining how components get warm inside & I think I need to reduce my daily usage a bit. Averaging 8 - 13 hours a day, is probably why the parts have failed ??


I highly doubt it has anything to do with your usage, although I don't own the DMP-Z1 Sony products generally run pretty cool compared to some other brands. It is actually scary how hot some amps can run.
They would definitely warn you if there was a risk of overheating from overuse, apart from the general recommendation of not placing it directly on top of another appliance etc.
I know it's different tech but I ran my Walkman 24/7 until I hit the recommended 200hrs leaving it on the charger and it was barely above room temperature.


----------



## Blueoris

hoofman said:


> DMP-Z1 owners, what do you think about the idea of an Android-based DMP? I disliked Android-based DAP mainly because of battery life but then the DMP is much bigger so I don't know.


Apart of battery life, I dislike the additional processing demand of a Android system and the undesirable effects in the noice. But that is something a bit subjective. More objectively, I dislike that future versions of apps may not be supported, which combined with the lack of systems updates (e.g. version update and security patches) may reduce the life of the device.


----------



## Rob49

Blueoris said:


> Your usage time should be OK, but you could ask the question to Sony. if the issue was temperature related, I think you should have noticed your DMP getting very hot during usage, like hotter than when some batteries get warm during charging? Unless you used to play music in a really hot temperature environment, with the DMP under direct sun light while charging the battery, I think it was just bad luck



I will ask them in my next correspondence ( & just received further txt / e mail to say it’s taking longer than expected & apologies for that. ) As I’d posted yesterday, if anything, it always felt quite cold to touch, certainly never felt hot. It’s probably as you suggest.


Hinomotocho said:


> I highly doubt it has anything to do with your usage, although I don't own the DMP-Z1 Sony products generally run pretty cool compared to some other brands. It is actually scary how hot some amps can run.
> They would definitely warn you if there was a risk of overheating from overuse, apart from the general recommendation of not placing it directly on top of another appliance etc.
> I know it's different tech but I ran my Walkman 24/7 until I hit the recommended 200hrs leaving it on the charger and it was barely above room temperature.



As I’ve said above. I think at this moment in time, I think I’m more anxious about the further delay. I’ll just be happy to get it back. It’s kept away from other appliances, positioned at my side. I treat it like a baby, especially given it’s expense.


----------



## Rob49 (Feb 3, 2022)

nanaholic said:


> Most definitely a new Walkman as a successor to the WM1 series. You can see the teaser picture that every Signature Series product is present except for the WM1 Walkmans.



Without doubt, but I hope Sony are going to take us by surprise with other exciting products……? As we all know, Sony don’t stand still with technology & I would hope, “next level of sound” indicates that ??


----------



## nanaholic

Rob49 said:


> Without doubt, but I hope Sony are going to take us by surprise with other exciting products……? As we all know, Sony don’t stand still with technology & I would hope, “next level of sound” indicates that ??



I'd like Sony to try their hands at a top end record player since vinyl is making a come back and that's the piece that's missing in their Signature line up.


----------



## Rob49

nanaholic said:


> I'd like Sony to try their hands at a top end record player since vinyl is making a come back and that's the piece that's missing in their Signature line up.



I’m going to stick my neck out here & say this is going to be a range of new Signature products, not just new Walkman’s. Why put pictures of current products, unless everything was going to be overhauled ? It doesn’t quite add up to me ?? Also, what’s in the image to the left of the picture, if you blow the picture up, there’s something black with dials, or is this just for image purposes??


----------



## MrWalkman

Rob49 said:


> I’m going to stick my neck out here & say this is going to be a range of new Signature products, not just new Walkman’s. Why put pictures of current products, unless everything was going to be overhauled ? It doesn’t quite add up to me ?? Also, what’s in the image to the left of the picture, if you blow the picture up, there’s something black with dials, or is this just for image purposes??



What doesn't add up is why put pictures of all signature series items except the 1A/Z Walkman players? This, combined with the two recent FCC filings, leds me almost certainly to beileve that it has to be about successors to WM1A and WM1Z.

WM1A: ICX-1277
WM1Z: ICX-1278
(DMP-Z1: ICX-1300)

Recent FCC filings were done for:
ICX-1298
ICX-1299


----------



## pdL389

MrWalkman said:


> What doesn't add up is why put pictures of all signature series items except the 1A/Z Walkman players? This, combined with the two recent FCC filings, leds me almost certainly to beileve that it has to be about successors to WM1A and WM1Z.
> 
> WM1A: ICX-1277
> WM1Z: ICX-1278
> ...


https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2021/11/new-sony-walman-icx-1298-spottede-on.html


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Rob49 said:


> Also, what’s in the image to the left of the picture, if you blow the picture up, there’s something black with dials, or is this just for image purposes??


that would be the SA-Z1 speaker


----------



## gerelmx1986

cosplayerkyo said:


> that would be the SA-Z1 speaker


That costs more than the DMP-Z1 😂


----------



## nanaholic (Feb 3, 2022)

gerelmx1986 said:


> That costs more than the DMP-Z1 😂


Only the RRP. In reality the price has dropped below the DMP-Z1, at least in Japan.

They are very nice near field active speakers, but at that price point like a lot of Signature products makes them extremely niche.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I think DMP-Z1 is the true walkman 40 years hommage product and it will be a limited edition prosuct


----------



## bmichels (Feb 4, 2022)

With some luck, the 9th we may have a good surprise with also a DMP-Z1 successor .....   something like this


----------



## gerelmx1986

My monthly burn-in statis


----------



## gerelmx1986

I am ant to ask the experts here either @Whitigir @purk @Damz87  or @nanaholic

If i understand on the system if you click on the battery icon it lets you switch to AC or batte y mode while the DMP is still plugged to mains electricity and the plug icon changes to grayed out.

Today while looking at player r settings i not d a checkbox that says battery preferred - battery will be used despite player being connected to Mains. This was unchecked despite i used the battery /AC switcher dialog. So i ticked it. Does this makes a difference?

I was thinking maybe i can have the AC plugged in but disconn ct the battery charging by leaving battery preferred unchecked and switching to use battery on the dialog. But now i am baffled at this checkbox


----------



## gerelmx1986

I dis my montky battery run. Again DMP1Z1 but this time high gain

Got 6 hours 35 minutes with three 16/44 albuma, rwo 24296 and two and dive wongs from third disc 24/44


----------



## gerelmx1986

I need to run another battery this time High gqin and DSD remastering on.

So far

Low gain & DED RE on 7 hours with mostly CD redbook flac
Low gain direct (no DSD RE) only CD redbook flac 10 hours
High gain direct (no DSD RE) mix of 24-bit and redbook flac 6 hours 35 minutes


----------



## gerelmx1986

Sony mediago Supports DMP


----------



## gerelmx1986

@Rob49  do tou know what status does your SMP  has by now? Or sony deemed it a total loss?


----------



## MrWalkman

gerelmx1986 said:


> Or sony deemed it a total loss?



Lol, where did this come from? 😅

He already mentioned that they'll be replacing certain parts.


----------



## Rob49 (Feb 8, 2022)

gerelmx1986 said:


> @Rob49  do tou know what status does your SMP  has by now? Or sony deemed it a total loss?



The last update, was the same e mail sent, previously, saying that it is taking longer than expected, apologising & saying they will get it fixed a.s.a.p. ( That e mail was Feb 3rd. )


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> The last update, was the same e mail sent, previously, saying that it is taking longer than expected, apologising & saying they will get it fixed a.s.a.p. ( That e mail was Feb 3rd. )


So you haven’t got it back?


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> So you haven’t got it back?



Ermm……no.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Lets hope there is a FW ipdate for DMP-Z1 to increase DSD-Remastering to 11.2MHz like in the new walkmans


----------



## MrWalkman

gerelmx1986 said:


> Lets hope there is a FW ipdate for DMP-Z1 to increase DSD-Remastering to 11.2MHz like in the new walkmans



That would be surprising. They added features in the past to the Walkman OS, but they didn't basically change an existent feature.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I am wondering if they (sony) will make in two to three years a SMP-Z1M2


----------



## Calfredo826

gerelmx1986 said:


> I am wondering if they (sony) will make in two to three years a SMP-Z1M2


Probably not. DMP seems like a one and done product.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Did my last test of battery life this time High gain and DSD-RE ON 4 albums in 16/44.-  and two in 24/96.

Got 6 hours 44 minutes


----------



## Calfredo826

gerelmx1986 said:


> Did my last test of battery life this time High gain and DSD-RE ON 4 albums in 16/44.-  and two in 24/96.
> 
> Got 6 hours 44 minutes


Why are you testing? To see if battery life is still optimal?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Calfredo826 said:


> Why are you testing? To see if battery life is still optimal?


To t et eony claims and to see which combination is b st fo long time battery y life. DIRECT /DSD-RE OFF LOW GAIN gives moat battery


----------



## gerelmx1986

First, I know what the checjbox Battery preferred under Player settings does. If you have it checked (ticked) whenever you plug the AC cord the DMP will switch to Battery modus automatically. If you have it unticked and you plug the AC cord it will switch to AC Mode.

Second there is my esperience wuth Battery life tests under different usage scenarios, ALL UNDER DIRECT with either DSD-Remaster ON or OFF nad either High or normal Gain. Times are in HH:MM cumulative playtime with minimal screen fiddling unless noted by C)


GainDSD-RemasterPlay timeNotesNormalOFF10:00 to 10:30A)HighOFF7:00 to 8:30B), C)NormalON8:30 to 9:30D)HighON6:45 to 7:20B)

Notes:
A) Mostly (98%) of tracks were 16/44.1 FLAC file format
B) Some significant amount of 24-bit FLAC files in the mix (between 50% and 80% of tracks(, rest 16/44.1 FLAC
C) I fiddled with the screen too much, so probably one hour more, hence 8:30
D) A mic of all possible from FLAC 16/44.1 to 24/192 and DSD64 & DSD128


----------



## gerelmx1986

gerelmx1986 said:


> First, I know what the checjbox Battery preferred under Player settings does. If you have it checked (ticked) whenever you plug the AC cord the DMP will switch to Battery modus automatically. If you have it unticked and you plug the AC cord it will switch to AC Mode.
> 
> Second there is my esperience wuth Battery life tests under different usage scenarios, ALL UNDER DIRECT with either DSD-Remaster ON or OFF nad either High or normal Gain. Times are in HH:MM cumulative playtime with minimal screen fiddling unless noted by C)
> 
> ...


----------



## Layman1

Calfredo826 said:


> Probably not. DMP seems like a one and done product.


I'm not so sure about that. I reckon there's still an extra 0.003% purity that could be added to the chassis material 

Just joking. I have to say though, one thing that I feel is not talked about much is the DSEE AI-based digital upsampling, which takes mp3 and 16-bit FLAC tracks and makes them sound like hi-res audio files. It makes a noticeable difference on my WM1Z.

Plus, whilst at least 30% of my collection is in hi-res 24 bit FLAC, and most of the rest in 16 bit FLAC, there's a bunch of songs I have - Chinese pop music, original early 80's Hip Hop (the Streetsounds Electro series from the UK if anyone else here knows it!) - that I can't get in any better format than mp3, I really appreciate this function enormously.
And that's on top of just making all my non-hi-res 16 bit FLAC albums sound better too.

I was very much a non-DSP kind of person, but the Sony DAPs have really changed my mind about that.
And I read on the new WM1ZM2 page that they've now improved the DSEE as well. 
Not sure if that will be rolled out to the old WM1Z as well, but I hope so?

Anyway, my point about all this, is that if/when I have the money, I would seriously consider the DMP-Z1 if only because it takes all that stunning hardware, and adds that DSEE goodness onto it as well, making it an absolute no-brainer winner for me. Hopefully I can get one secondhand in future.
Or Sony releases an even more upgraded version. One can only dream


----------



## gerelmx1986

Layman1 said:


> I'm not so sure about that. I reckon there's still an extra 0.003% purity that could be added to the chassis material
> 
> Just joking. I have to say though, one thing that I feel is not talked about much is the DSEE AI-based digital upsampling, which takes mp3 and 16-bit FLAC tracks and makes them sound like hi-res audio files. It makes a noticeable difference on my WM1Z.
> 
> ...


I have 16% of my library in Hi-res more than 200 apbums are Hi-res FLAC and around 150 are DSD albums. Rest of collection (3200+ albums) are 16/44.1 FLAC… so 399 albums in total are Hi-Res audio


----------



## Vamp898

Layman1 said:


> I'm not so sure about that. I reckon there's still an extra 0.003% purity that could be added to the chassis material
> 
> Just joking. I have to say though, one thing that I feel is not talked about much is the DSEE AI-based digital upsampling, which takes mp3 and 16-bit FLAC tracks and makes them sound like hi-res audio files. It makes a noticeable difference on my WM1Z.
> 
> ...


The only things that Sony could do would be the use of the new FTCAP3 or a new DAC (The AK4497 is quite outdated) or switch to the S-Master HX

I read that the new S-Master HX in the SA-Z1 no longer uses MOSFET but GaN and according to Sony, this improved the output power by a lot. It is still an D.A. Hybrid Amp, but the Analog Amp is, as they said in the developer interview, almost no longer needed.

The S-Master HX in the SA-Z1 outputs 106W in total, so assume, but that is just an assumption, that it could be possible to build an DMP-Z1 with the S-Master HX and 1500mW @ 16Ω Output power without an Hybrid Amp due to the GaN.

S-Master HX + FTCAP3 + Android could be enough to justify an upgrade to the current DMP-Z1, but the device is, in the Sony world, quite new. It was released 2018 so i'd say we'd have to wait two more years for that.


----------



## Rob49

SO…


Rob49 said:


> Just had more detailed info :
> 
> BATTERY, LITHIUM ION STORAGE.
> HOLDER ANALOG BATTERY ASSY.
> SVX MAIN PC BOARD ASSY.



SO….,BIG NEWS…..potentially, for all DMP-Z1 owners…..I decided to ring Sony repair centre, to chase up the repair of my player, to be told, the replacement parts are no longer available. ( I honestly don’t know if this is a location issue, being in the U.K. ?? )

I’ve been told a replacement is on order, which is due in on February 17th. I said, “Could you reassure me that there will be no problem sourcing a replacement” ? She said there should be no problem. ( I’ll be relieved when they confirm that they are sending the replacement. )

It does leave that very important question - what happens if the same thing happens again, or other parts are needed, when they are no longer available & this is out of warranty ??


----------



## Vamp898

Rob49 said:


> SO…
> 
> 
> SO….,BIG NEWS…..potentially, for all DMP-Z1 owners…..I decided to ring Sony repair centre, to chase up the repair of my player, to be told, the replacement parts are no longer available. ( I honestly don’t know if this is a location issue, being in the U.K. ?? )
> ...


If it is out of warrenty and can't be repaired, they'll offer you an replacement DMP-Z1 for an discount price of roughly 30-50% (you have to send in your broken one of course)


----------



## Rob49 (Feb 10, 2022)

Vamp898 said:


> If it is out of warrenty and can't be repaired, they'll offer you an replacement DMP-Z1 for an discount price of roughly 30-50% (you have to send in your broken one of course)



Is that an example of a future scenario ?? Where have you ascertained this information ??


----------



## hoofman

Vamp898 said:


> If it is out of warrenty and can't be repaired, they'll offer you an replacement DMP-Z1 for an discount price of roughly 30-50% (you have to send in your broken one of course)


Will it be the same for other products, like DAPs or IEMs?


----------



## Vamp898 (Feb 10, 2022)

Exactly yes. At least at Sony Japan, that is the normal procedure.

If a product is out of warranty and you send it in for repair and it can't be repaired for whatever reason, they'll offer you an replacement for an discount.

But, and i totally forgot to mention that, i only know about this procedure at Sony Japan. Because pretty much all Sony gear i own was imported from Japan, i only know about how they handle it, not how it is done in general.

But i had a similar case with an Microsoft Surface Book and Microsoft did roughly the same. The SurfaceBook was broken (out of support) and they offered an replacement for an discount. So this seems to be a common practice (at least in Japan)

When my XBA-Z5 had an damaged filter, they did the same. And someone who broke the MMCX connectors of his IER-Z1R told me the same.

But there is no law or a contract. They do it because they want to keep customers, its goodwill and common practice. As long you're friendly and polite, they'll most likely offer it but i guess you can't demand it


----------



## Gamerlingual

All parts remain in stock up to 7 years after the product is discontinued


----------



## Rob49

Gamerlingual said:


> All parts remain in stock up to 7 years after the product is discontinued



I assume that Sony Central Repair ( U.K. ) can’t be bothered with the hassle & have just decided to replace ??


----------



## Vamp898

Rob49 said:


> I assume that Sony Central Repair ( U.K. ) can’t be bothered with the hassle & have just decided to replace ??


I've read from several people who have had issues with their WM1Z or TA-ZH1ES and almost everytime, they have been replaced entirely and not repaired.

I have issues with the Volume Knob on my TA-ZH1ES and i was already told, that most likely the whole TA-ZH1ES is going to be replaced.


----------



## gerelmx1986

@Rob49  this is good news and oh man you will begin again with Burn-in..

Sony does same thing with headphones and DAP. I had a Zx100 repaired acrually as i got my player back back in the days.

The big quewtion are
A) they scavenge unrepaired inits for parts?
B)who know if you’re getting a new unit or a refurbished 
C) we both got our DMP thru amazon europe, we never know if we got new unit sealed or refurb. I suspect mine is nee as the changes in sound during burn-in and how unit was wrapped, external packaging thos (white carton with dmp pic augmented) came with no plastic shrink. So hence my toughts


----------



## Rob49 (Feb 10, 2022)

gerelmx1986 said:


> @Rob49  this is good news and oh man you will begin again with Burn-in..
> 
> Sony does same thing with headphones and DAP. I had a Zx100 repaired acrually as i got my player back back in the days.
> 
> ...



Burn in is not of a concern to me, because my player sounded great from the off & personally it was not obvious to me of any improvements during the 1.214 hrs of usage.
I hope & pray that I am getting a brand new unit & not a refurb, but I would assume I am, given the expected wait till February 17th. I almost did ask where the unit was coming from, but the words didn’t come out in that moment.

There was nothing to suggest to me that my player wasn’t a brand new player, but I had not looked at a unboxing video on the internet. All I can say is roll on the 17th. I’m going to my partners on the 25th so hope I receive it by then ?

( I can’t recall any shrink wrap. Don’t think there was ? )


----------



## gerelmx1986

In amazon Germany is no longer acailable, at least says so the iPhone app


----------



## bmichels

gerelmx1986 said:


> In amazon Germany is no longer acailable, at least says so the iPhone app


DMP-Z1's Successor coming ?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

No M2 coming....yet. 

According to Sony's dealer portal, DMP-Z1 is in stock and ready to ship at Sony's GA warehouse in the U.S.


----------



## purk

HiFiGuy528 said:


> No M2 coming....yet.
> 
> According to Sony's dealer portal, DMP-Z1 is in stock and ready to ship at Sony's GA warehouse in the U.S.


There is a Sony warehouse in GA?


----------



## efftee

Rob49 said:


> SO…
> 
> 
> SO….,BIG NEWS…..potentially, for all DMP-Z1 owners…..I decided to ring Sony repair centre, to chase up the repair of my player, to be told, the replacement parts are no longer available. ( I honestly don’t know if this is a location issue, being in the U.K. ?? )
> ...


Rob, stop worrying about things that may not happen and at the present time seemingly out of your control whatsoever. Enjoy the moment that you are getting a new DMP-1Z!


----------



## Rob49

efftee said:


> Rob, stop worrying about things that may not happen and at the present time seemingly out of your control whatsoever. Enjoy the moment that you are getting a new DMP-1Z!



I am of that nature…..but I’ve been putting my Tazzy to good use, during the wait……as soon as it arrives, there will no doubt be a pic….


----------



## Whitigir

HiFiGuy528 said:


> No M2 coming....yet.
> 
> According to Sony's dealer portal, DMP-Z1 is in stock and ready to ship at Sony's GA warehouse in the U.S.


When do they start having the stock for WM1 M2 ?


----------



## Rob49

Unexpected shock, just after 8am…..my weekend is set up now. ( Once I’ve loaded everything again. )


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Unexpected shock, just after 8am…..my weekend is set up now. ( Once I’ve loaded everything again. )


I qm missing mine, i qm for a week visiting b rlin


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I qm missing mine, i qm for a week visiting b rlin



It’s nice to hear THAT SOUND, again, after a month. Enjoy your time in Berlin.


----------



## sanguineburrito (Feb 19, 2022)

On youtube, I came across a new unboxing video of DMP. The guy’s DMP was manufactured in 2021 sept 9. So Sony is still making new ones in the last 6 months.

Link:


----------



## Rob49

DMP-Z1 ( No. 2 ) by my side…..and my computer hard drive has failed, during the ripping process, yesterday…..TIMING !

Just at the 17 hrs played mark & from the very first seconds of listening, so wonderful to hear the sound again, after a month. I know this sounds crazy, but I think No.2 sounds even better ! I never dreamt I would own this player, let alone have a second brand new unit


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> DMP-Z1 ( No. 2 ) by my side…..and my computer hard drive has failed, during the ripping process, yesterday…..TIMING !
> 
> Just at the 17 hrs played mark & from the very first seconds of listening, so wonderful to hear the sound again, after a month. I know this sounds crazy, but I think No.2 sounds even better ! I never dreamt I would own this player, let alone have a second brand new unit


What happened to number 1 ? Still on the road trip ?


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> What happened to number 1 ? Still on the road trip ?



I think it’s gone to the “Sony refurb in the sky”…..


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> I think it’s gone to the “Sony refurb in the sky”…..


Oh, so they sent replacement ? That is very nice of them


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Oh, so they sent replacement ? That is very nice of them



It certainly was ! Only had it just under 6 months.


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> It certainly was ! Only had it just under 6 months.


Enjoy the burn in progress , rolling down the memory lanes !!


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Enjoy the burn in progress , rolling down the memory lanes !!



This player sounds great, without any burn in process. ( Not that I’m completely convinced by burn in ?? ) The first player sounded amazing during all of it’s 1.214 hours of use.


----------



## gerelmx1986

After not yaing my WM1A for 5 months… it no longer sounds premium, rather mid-fi.. i was baffled. I am again listening to my DMP after a weekling trip to Berlin


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> After not yaing my WM1A for 5 months… it no longer sounds premium, rather mid-fi.. i was baffled. I am again listening to my DMP after a weekling trip to Berlin



When you own the DMP-Z1, everything else seems quite ordinary.


----------



## gerelmx1986

sanguineburrito said:


> On youtube, I came across a new unboxing video of DMP. The guy’s DMP was manufactured in 2021 sept 9. So Sony is still making new ones in the last 6 months.
> 
> Link:



Well actually on my boxers not manufacture date I try to look on the barcodes and I couldn’t feel anything


----------



## ljnew

cat3600 said:


> So I did some pretty extensive listening to both units I played Diana Krall, Annie Lennox, Eagles, Patricia Barber, Adel and the other usual music and feel both are quite different so personally could not come to a definite conclusion if one is better than the other.
> 
> Bass
> Bass is more fuller on the DMP and deeper, the M17 has a bass which is quicker its still plenty but I feel on the M17 bass is music dependent while on the Sony it's always there.
> ...


It's crazy that we can compare a player that costs under 2k to dmp.


----------



## Rob49

I was experimenting a bit, while I wait for a external hard drive to be delivered later today. I use JRiver media mostly & I wondered for those that use the DSD Remastering Engine, what size files do you tend to convert to, if you do ?

I can’t hear any obvious difference to the size of file. I assume this is because of the DSD Re ? ( & that it would all sound the same ? )


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I was experimenting a bit, while I wait for a external hard drive to be delivered later today. I use JRiver media mostly & I wondered for those that use the DSD Remastering Engine, what size files do you tend to convert to, if you do ?
> 
> I can’t hear any obvious difference to the size of file. I assume this is because of the DSD Re ? ( & that it would all sound the same ? )


For CD rios i use FLAC 16/44.1, fir SACD i use DSD 2.8MHz with a blue rey player from pioneer

Lqtely i have not bought physical media and buy mire Hi-res downliads whenever possible


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> For CD rios i use FLAC 16/44.1, fir SACD i use DSD 2.8MHz with a blue rey player from pioneer
> 
> Lqtely i have not bought physical media and buy mire Hi-res downliads whenever possible



Just for the DMP-Z1 I’m not sure if it’s worth converting to FLAC ? I can’t hear any obvious difference to smaller files ? Of course, just using up more space on the device. I was just curious….& presently listening to a ripped, converted file to FLAC & thinking should I convert everything to FLAC ??


----------



## efftee

gerelmx1986 said:


> For CD rios i use FLAC 16/44.1, fir SACD i use DSD 2.8MHz with a blue rey player from pioneer
> 
> Lqtely i have not bought physical media and buy mire Hi-res downliads whenever possible


Quick question -- what's the best app/software on Mac to rip an SACD?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Just for the DMP-Z1 I’m not sure if it’s worth converting to FLAC ? I can’t hear any obvious difference to smaller files ? Of course, just using up more space on the device. I was just curious….& presently listening to a ripped, converted file to FLAC & thinking should I convert everything to FLAC ??


Tou must rip the CD to flac qnd mot first rip to mp3/aac and then “conv rt” to foac as wh n tou ipped to mp3/aac the riles is already lossy and cannot be recovered by just upsampling to flav


----------



## gerelmx1986

efftee said:


> Quick question -- what's the best app/software on Mac to rip an SACD?


For mac i dontknow, i use windows and sacd_extract.exe from Terminal


----------



## Rob49 (Feb 22, 2022)

gerelmx1986 said:


> Tou must rip the CD to flac qnd mot first rip to mp3/aac and then “conv rt” to foac as wh n tou ipped to mp3/aac the riles is already lossy and cannot be recovered by just upsampling to flav



I had just ripped to mp3 or acc using JRiver or Sony Media Go & then I have converted to FLAC. As I’ve said I can’t hear any obvious difference between them on the DMP, whereas I think I would on another device. I’m trying to convince myself that I can hear a difference…..some of my files are APE….which I thought sounded good, but again, hard to differentiate?? APE in a sense is not different to FLAC, regards bit rate e.t.c. Is that right ?

…..and if I’ve understood your post properly, there’s not really any point in converting to FLAC, because the smaller mp3 / acc files are already lossy & upsampling to FLAC won’t make any difference ??


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I had just ripped to mp3 or acc using JRiver or Sony Media Go & then I have converted to FLAC. As I’ve said I can’t hear any obvious difference between them on the DMP, whereas I think I would on another device. I’m trying to convince myself that I can hear a difference…..some of my files are APE….which I thought sounded good, but again, hard to differentiate?? APE in a sense is not different to FLAC, regards bit rate e.t.c. Is that right ?


CD>MP3/AAC>FLAC/APE does not work as the resulting dile from the rip has already lissy compression and upconverting to flac will  BRING NOTHING BUT WASTED SOACE.

CD>FLAV/APE direct without h mp3/AAC in the middle provides the BEST RESULTS


----------



## Rob49 (Feb 22, 2022)

gerelmx1986 said:


> CD>MP3/AAC>FLAC/APE does not work as the resulting dile from the rip has already lissy compression and upconverting to flac will  BRING NOTHING BUT WASTED SOACE.
> 
> CD>FLAV/APE direct without h mp3/AAC in the middle provides the BEST RESULTS



Thanks for that info. ( So how do you cut out the “middle man” ripping CD’s ?? )


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for that info. ( So how do you cut out the “middle man” ripping CD’s ?? )


Check if JRiver has a ripping option to FLAC or use MediaGo to rip CD direvtly to flac.

I personally use db poweramp suite  CD ripper tool


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Check if JRiver has a ripping option to FLAC or use MediaGo to rip CD direvtly to flac.
> 
> I personally use db poweramp suite  CD ripper tool



Thanks. I’ve never checked on JRiver. So there is an option on Sony Media Go to rip directly to FLAC ? ( I’ve only had both of these soft wears for years ! )

My external hard drive has just arrived & thankfully it connected to my laptop, unfortunately, it’s very, very slow ! ( ( Using JRiver at present ) I’ll be 60 before I’ve finished ripping my remaining CD’s ! LOL


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Thanks. I’ve never checked on JRiver. So there is an option on Sony Media Go to rip directly to FLAC ? ( I’ve only had both of these soft wears for years ! )
> 
> My external hard drive has just arrived & thankfully it connected to my laptop, unfortunately, it’s very, very slow ! ( ( Using JRiver at present ) I’ll be 60 before I’ve finished ripping my remaining CD’s ! LOL


Yes Sony MediaGo has an option to rip to FLAC, at least on the last few releases.  I’m his is und r options> impo and CE on so is called


----------



## gerelmx1986

I p to sonally like db poweramp suite CD ripper as it has an Accurip that ensures the hat a lot ipp d CD is accurate by matching the ach of ipoed track with o an int rner database that contqins rips of same CD made by other people (a CRV32 and a MD5 checksum). If the ripped track iw mot present within accu ip database, the database ipping tool database ill rip the same track twice and compare them and decide if its an accurate rip (bit p the fect)


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Yes Sony MediaGo has an option to rip to FLAC, at least on the last few releases.  I’m his is und r options> impo and CE on so is called



Got the Sony Media Go to FLAC. Can’t recall if I ever clicked “Preferences“ before ?? Probably did…..haven’t looked on JRiver yet.

It will be interesting to see if I can tell any difference at all, cutting out the “middle man” ? Will report back….


gerelmx1986 said:


> I p to sonally like db poweramp suite CD ripper as it has an Accurip that ensures the hat a lot ipp d CD is accurate by matching the ach of ipoed track with o an int rner database that contqins rips of same CD made by other people (a CRV32 and a MD5 checksum). If the ripped track iw mot present within accu ip database, the database ipping tool database ill rip the same track twice and compare them and decide if its an accurate rip (bit p the fect)



Thanks. I will look into that this evening. I had heard of it before, but never delved. Thanks for your help & educating me on something I wasn’t fully aware of.


----------



## Rob49

Even after a short listen @gerelmx1986 i thought I couldn’t get even more enjoyment from my DMP-Z1, but this direct to FLAC is certainly the way to go. I feel I can definitely hear even more detail & overall a notch up in sound quality, for something that already sounded unique to me.

A long job ahead ripping everything again & a longer job, but will be SO worth it ! Thanks again.


----------



## Hinomotocho

https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/sony-dmp-z1r-high-end-digital-audio-player

Demo model, comes with free burn in hours, ready to go


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Yes Sony MediaGo has an option to rip to FLAC, at least on the last few releases.  I’m his is und r options> impo and CE on so is called



Of course this morning I had to check if there was a direct rip to DSD on JRiver, knowing there’s a convert option & of course there is. Just trying a couple of CD’s….not sure if it’s worth going down this route. I think I’ll stick to the FLAC rips, after what I heard yesterday.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Of course this morning I had to check if there was a direct rip to DSD on JRiver, knowing there’s a convert option & of course there is. Just trying a couple of CD’s….not sure if it’s worth going down this route. I think I’ll stick to the FLAC rips, after what I heard yesterday.


For DSD rips i use only for SACSs and its a bit more complicqy d as you need to source a blue ray player that supports SACR playback. Then you must downliad some acripts and copy thwm to an USB stick which is to be plugged in to the bluray player. Then computer and bluray must be on same netork and then finally use windows command prompt to execute sacd_extract.exe


----------



## Damz87

Hinomotocho said:


> https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/sony-dmp-z1r-high-end-digital-audio-player
> 
> Demo model, comes with free burn in hours, ready to go


They won’t ship outside of Australia though, unfortunately. If anyone is genuinely interested, I am happy to assist with international shipping. It costs approx USD $300-$350 to ship the DMP to USA with DHL.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> For DSD rips i use only for SACSs and its a bit more complicqy d as you need to source a blue ray player that supports SACR playback. Then you must downliad some acripts and copy thwm to an USB stick which is to be plugged in to the bluray player. Then computer and bluray must be on same netork and then finally use windows command prompt to execute sacd_extract.exe



I have about 150 - 200 SACD’s & never known how to rip them, but what you’re saying & what I’ve read, sounds a bit of hassle, especially for my cognitive impaired brain, so I don’t think I’ll bother.

Onwards & upwards with the FLAC ripping…& of course, listening !


----------



## Wikinaut

I ripped all my SACDs using my Oppo 103D. That's the only reason I keep that clunker around! There is a nicer GUI now for ripping too that allows you to specify the options you want. For example, if you only want the stereo tracks, multi-channel, or both.


----------



## Rob49

Wikinaut said:


> I ripped all my SACDs using my Oppo 103D. That's the only reason I keep that clunker around! There is a nicer GUI now for ripping too that allows you to specify the options you want. For example, if you only want the stereo tracks, multi-channel, or both.



I think my Oppo player is a 103, perhaps when I’ve ripped all my CD’s, I can look into ripping my SACD collection ?

For now, I can’t believe that I had listened to my ( first ) DMP-Z1 for 6 months, truly believing it was the best audio I had ever heard in a headphone, to realise that I wasn’t getting the very best sound out of it. I’m literally gobsmacked at what I’ve been hearing in the last 24 hours.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I’ve tried to add the DMap-Z1 to the shopping cart did ectoy from sony germany but as soon as i go to the cart, it is empty… i tried three times and thw button shadows as if it is performing the action and norhing happens. 

So i concluded it is discontinued


----------



## Vamp898

gerelmx1986 said:


> I’ve tried to add the DMap-Z1 to the shopping cart did ectoy from sony germany but as soon as i go to the cart, it is empty… i tried three times and thw button shadows as if it is performing the action and norhing happens.
> 
> So i concluded it is discontinued


You can buy it here: https://www.sony.jp/audio/products/DMP-Z1/
And here: https://www.e-earphone.jp/products/detail/19333/2069

There is also an used one on sale right now für ~5800€

https://www.e-earphone.jp/products/detail/1384310/2069/


----------



## gerelmx1986

I finished paying the dmp-z1


----------



## Vamp898

gerelmx1986 said:


> I finished paying the dmp-z1


Then its time for the Shanling M30 to see how it compares


----------



## Damz87

Does anyone know where I can download the 1.01 DMP Firmware?


----------



## pdL389

https://walkman.update.sony.net/fw/pc/Z1/DMP-Z1_V1_01.exe


----------



## pdL389

Damz87 said:


> Does anyone know where I can download the 1.01 DMP Firmware?


https://walkman.update.sony.net/fw/pc/Z1/DMP-Z1_V1_01.exe


----------



## Damz87

pdL389 said:


> https://walkman.update.sony.net/fw/pc/Z1/DMP-Z1_V1_01.exe


Amazing - Thank you!

I had 2 DMP-Z1's side by side today and did some A/B'ing between them. The only difference being the firmware. It was a noticeable difference in the bass, and a slight change in the treble (mostly the bass though). Man, 1.01 fw has amazing bass. Had to find the fw and roll back my unit to 1.01 because it sounded so much better to me. It has a slightly more intimate stage but the difference in bass makes it worth the sacrifice. The stage is still massive 





Thanks again!


----------



## gerelmx1986

Damz87 said:


> Amazing - Thank you!
> 
> I had 2 DMP-Z1's side by side today and did some A/B'ing between them. The only difference being the firmware. It was a noticeable difference in the bass, and a slight change in the treble (mostly the bass though). Man, 1.01 fw has amazing bass. Had to find the fw and roll back my unit to 1.01 because it sounded so much better to me. It has a slightly more intimate stage but the difference in bass makes it worth the sacrifice. The stage is still massive
> 
> ...


I will try it too later today. What you mean by better bass? Cleaner?


----------



## Damz87

gerelmx1986 said:


> I will try it too later today. What you mean by better bass? Cleaner?


Its a little more emphasised and it sounds a bit more defined than 1.02. But it comes at the sacrifice of some midrange forwardness. Might not be for everyone, but I like it.


----------



## efftee (Mar 1, 2022)

Damz87 said:


> Amazing - Thank you!
> 
> I had 2 DMP-Z1's side by side today and did some A/B'ing between them. The only difference being the firmware. It was a noticeable difference in the bass, and a slight change in the treble (mostly the bass though). Man, 1.01 fw has amazing bass. Had to find the fw and roll back my unit to 1.01 because it sounded so much better to me. It has a slightly more intimate stage but the difference in bass makes it worth the sacrifice. The stage is still massive
> 
> ...


[Edit: Sorry, never mind the original message. So you're back-grading to 1.01 hmm...]


----------



## Damz87

efftee said:


> [Edit: Sorry, never mind the original message. So you're back-grading to 1.01 hmm...]


Correct  it was great being able to A/B firmware and hear the differences side by side. I upgraded the other unit to 1.02 to make sure I wasn’t hearing things and they then sounded exactly the same.


----------



## efftee

Damz87 said:


> Correct  it was great being able to A/B firmware and hear the differences side by side. I upgraded the other unit to 1.02 to make sure I wasn’t hearing things and they then sounded exactly the same.


So what's the benefit of upgrading to 1.02 then? At a loss of what I should do... 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Damz87

efftee said:


> So what's the benefit of upgrading to 1.02 then? At a loss of what I should do... 🤷‍♂️


Doesn’t look like much other than that BT playback fix 🤔


----------



## gerelmx1986

I have a even weirder question than @cat3600  magnetic USB C plugs.

How can i protect my DMP-Z1 against electromagnetic pulse from a nuclear explosion ?( atomic bomb)


----------



## Halimj7

Anyone ever try DMP-Z1 with 1266? If so how was it?


----------



## gerelmx1986

So running DSP. Only turned DSEE HX AI on. Battery lasted 7.5H until battery dropped to 3%


----------



## Rob49

Reached the 100 hour mark yesterday on DMP-Z1 ( No. 2 ) while continuing to rip my 1.000 + CD’s to FLAC. It is the most amazing audio I’ve ever heard in headphone listening, without question. It’s like rediscovering my whole music collection in a way I’ve never ever known before.


----------



## efftee

Rob49 said:


> Reached the 100 hour mark yesterday on DMP-Z1 ( No. 2 ) while continuing to rip my 1.000 + CD’s to FLAC. It is the most amazing audio I’ve ever heard in headphone listening, without question. It’s like rediscovering my whole music collection in a way I’ve never ever known before.


That’s slow, you must be listening/burning-in simultaneously. Was there much difference over the hours?


----------



## Rob49 (Mar 7, 2022)

efftee said:


> That’s slow, you must be listening/burning-in simultaneously. Was there much difference over the hours?



97 hrs in two weeks was a bit down for me, but I was at my partners for 5 days, but still managed to clock up about 40 hrs that week - I do understand the comment, “You’ve got those headphones on all the time”. ( Not much company for him & a bit rude ! )

As I’d posted recently, I had not ripped anything to FLAC, during the 1.200 + hours of listening, with my first unit & even then the conclusion was it was the best headphone audio I have ever heard.

This is now something completely on another level. Imagine previously, a flower not fully open, but now completely in full bloom. Obviously, FLAC has no compression, so this must be the difference that I’m hearing & still having DSD Remastering on, as I always have done.

I’m listening in moments of batch ripping and other times of just adding each CD as I rip them. Regards any differences, during these now 110 hrs of listening, i can’t really say, other than what I have said, which is the most insane audio I have ever heard. I’m hearing so much in the music that I never heard before, even more so now & the resolution has gone up to another level. It really is multi channel SACD listening in a headphone, something I’d always hoped for.

I hope this player doesn’t malfunction, because the thought of it not being replaced, because it may have been discontinued by then ??…..would be hard to live with.


----------



## gerelmx1986

8 Hours worh DSP being DSEE HY AI and low gain


----------



## chewyR

is the DMP-Z1 being discontinued?


----------



## gerelmx1986

chewyR said:


> is the DMP-Z1 being discontinued?


With the AKM fire and no new chips from AKM , i guess yes


----------



## coolhand

gerelmx1986 said:


> With the AKM fire and no new chips from AKM , i guess yes


Incorrect regarding AKM, whom have resumed production of 13 Velvet Sound A/D & D/A converter chips.

Samples have been available as of last month for a new generation of improved specification devices, (although it appears that they haven't _as of yet_, designated an equivalent replacement to the AK4497, as employed x2 in the DMP-Z1)

Asahi Kasei Microdevices


----------



## Sp12er3

Seeing the price the DMP-Z1 is at, don't think Sony would be worried enough to run out of their stock of the chip. It's definitely not a leading seller like many other Chinese DAPs are, they can definitely eat the increased chip price, that's much easier and cheaper than designing a new player around a new chip.


----------



## gerelmx1986

What i once regarded as bad recordings and skipped them.

With DMP they ahine, i haven’t skipped a single second of these tracks. Like @Rob49  says Z1 presents you with the music at its root level, i am amazed and baffled how an onced shoty recording suddenly sound nice


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> What i once regarded as bad recordings and skipped them.
> 
> With DMP they ahine, i haven’t skipped a single second of these tracks. Like @Rob49  says Z1 presents you with the music at its root level, i am amazed and baffled how an onced shoty recording suddenly sound nice



I’m finding this too. If you hadn’t replied & explained that converted FLAC rips, aren’t the same as direct rips, I wouldn’t have discovered ( yet ) what this player REALLY DOES.

( Just as I type this, I’m losing sound in the left ear cup of my Sony 1AM2’s - hope it’s not the cable ?? - we’ll time to try my Senn 660S again, or even my Sony MDR- Z1R’s, I wonder if they’re still mouldy ! ? lol )

It really is amazing to listen to music, your favourite music & your not so favourite music & have a completely different perspective for both.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I’m finding this too. If you hadn’t replied & explained that converted FLAC rips, aren’t the same as direct rips, I wouldn’t have discovered ( yet ) what this player REALLY DOES.
> 
> ( Just as I type this, I’m losing sound in the left ear cup of my Sony 1AM2’s - hope it’s not the cable ?? - we’ll time to try my Senn 660S again, or even my Sony MDR- Z1R’s, I wonder if they’re still mouldy ! ? lol )
> 
> It really is amazing to listen to music, your favourite music & your not so favourite music & have a completely different perspective for both.


Same happ n d to me last week, my MDR-Z1R lost wound on the right cup, so i and nded ditxhing the sony kimb and cable and swqpped a kimber axios and sounds good


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Same happ n d to me last week, my MDR-Z1R lost wound on the right cup, so i and nded ditxhing the sony kimb and cable and swqpped a kimber axios and sounds good



My cable wasn’t as expensive, but about £200 all the same.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> My cable wasn’t as expensive, but about £200 all the same.


The kimber got it gor 300€ from @nc8000


----------



## Halimj7

gerelmx1986 said:


> Same happ n d to me last week, my MDR-Z1R lost wound on the right cup, so i and nded ditxhing the sony kimb and cable and swqpped a kimber axios and sounds good


How does the kimber cable change the sound of the Z1R? Thanks.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Halimj7 said:


> How does the kimber cable change the sound of the Z1R? Thanks.


Less peaky tr ble


----------



## acosteseque

Hi,
I have seeen some Abyss Diana users with their DMP-Z1 on the thread, anyone owning Diana TC?
Is it pairing well? seems that Diana TC version is more difficult to drive than Phi or even V2 version.
1500mW + 1500mW in High Gain at 16Ω looks enough but wondering.
Thank you for the feedback.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Next week finally i exoect the meze liric review unit at my hands woot woot


----------



## gerelmx1986

Approaching 900h mark. I vannot longer detect burn-in changes. And the liric is about ro vross to germany.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Approaching 900h mark. I vannot longer detect burn-in changes. And the liric is about ro vross to germany.



Yes, but you haven’t listened for 900 hrs ( wink wink ! ) like I have.

I’m on 185 hrs for my second unit, a bit slow going for me, in just over 4 weeks of ownership, to add to the 1.214 hrs with first unit.

During any of this time, I haven’t thought anything has obviously changed. It was brilliant from first minute of play.

Picking up on usage this past few days, after a distracting, stressful period.

Continue to enjoy…..I’m sure you will…..


----------



## gerelmx1986

Meze liric


----------



## Vamp898

gerelmx1986 said:


> Meze liric


The poor DMP-Z1 must feel raped


----------



## efftee

Curious. May I ask the DMP-Z1 owners here where they bought their unit and where it is made? I got mine in Singapore and it says Made in Malaysia.


----------



## gerelmx1986

efftee said:


> Curious. May I ask the DMP-Z1 owners here where they bought their unit and where it is made? I got mine in Singapore and it says Made in Malaysia.


Through Amazon and urope and also says made in malasya


----------



## ianatkins

paulchiu said:


> This is not a verdict on the DAVE, as I have yet to add enhancements to the DAVE (like XLR Vince mentioned above or the Chord Scaler) but in my first 300 hours with the Sony DMP-Z1, I prefer just how inviting/comfortable songs feel through my headphones.  The DAVE can get brutal sometimes with too much sharpening of tones. (here, maybe due seasonal left ear tinnitus due to congestion) The smoothness of the female voice and the fullness of a Jazz ensemble party through a pair of Sony IER-Z1R is superior to what DAVE gives me.  Still, I have only done A & B switching for a few albums, so nothing final.    A comparison that is complete is that the Nagra HD DAC sounds better than the Sony DMP-Z1.  Although not by much on the listenability, just the Swiss piece shows me more details and envelopes me more with clean sound.


HI I noticed you have the Kef active speakers - can you run them from the DMP and disable the Kef DAC?


----------



## bmichels

paulchiu said:


> This is not a verdict on the DAVE, as I have yet to add enhancements to the DAVE (like XLR Vince mentioned above or the Chord Scaler) but in my first 300 hours with the Sony DMP-Z1, I prefer just how inviting/comfortable songs feel through my headphones.  The DAVE can get brutal sometimes with too much sharpening of tones. (here, maybe due seasonal left ear tinnitus due to congestion) The smoothness of the female voice and the fullness of a Jazz ensemble party through a pair of Sony IER-Z1R is superior to what DAVE gives me.  Still, I have only done A & B switching for a few albums, so nothing final.    A comparison that is complete is that the Nagra HD DAC sounds better than the Sony DMP-Z1.  Although not by much on the listenability, just the Swiss piece shows me more details and envelopes me more with clean sound.



I agree with you, I used to own the DAVE and found it to analytic and much prefered the NAGRA that I had the chance to test but not to own. So....the Nagra HD DAC is next on my purchase list.

Question: when you state "_the Nagra HD DAC sounds better than the Sony DMP-Z1_", did you use the Headphone output of the NAGRA or was it connected to an external headphone amplifier ?  What headphone did you use in this comparaison Nagra v/s Sony ?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Monthly burn-in


----------



## efftee

I have a question. Been using a couple of 512Gbs on the Z1 all this time and recently decided to upsize to 1Tb cards. After taking the time to create database, it shows 0 files. I tried several times, several cards, all of which worked perfectly on other DAPs, still same ZERO result. Reslotted the 512 cards, mounted with all tracks showing and functioning fine.

It appears the Z1 has a 512Gb capacity even though I couldn’t find anything on that. Thought I'd try reformatting the card on the DMP-Z1 but that’s really going to be my last ditch attempt, the 4-5 hours of refilling a 1Tb card isn't appealing at all.

Anyone ever successfully used a 1Tb card? Thanks ahead.


----------



## Whitigir

efftee said:


> I have a question. Been using a couple of 512Gbs on the Z1 all this time and recently decided to upsize to 1Tb cards. After taking the time to create database, it shows 0 files. I tried several times, several cards, all of which worked perfectly on other DAPs, still same ZERO result. Reslotted the 512 cards, mounted with all tracks showing and functioning fine.
> 
> It appears the Z1 has a 512Gb capacity even though I couldn’t find anything on that. Thought I'd try reformatting the card on the DMP-Z1 but that’s really going to be my last ditch attempt, the 4-5 hours of refilling a 1Tb card isn't appealing at all.
> 
> Anyone ever successfully used a 1Tb card? Thanks ahead.


And files are inside a folder called “Music” ?


----------



## efftee

Whitigir said:


> And files are inside a folder called “Music” ?


No. Is that it??


----------



## Whitigir

efftee said:


> No. Is that it??


Exactly it


----------



## efftee

Haha! Thanks V!


----------



## gerelmx1986

Yes fikes must be on a Music folder


----------



## gerelmx1986

@Whitigir  i don't think that a M2 DMP-Z1 is coming, i think it was sonys hommage product to walkman.

Problems in DMP? Noise? I disnt hear any noise even playing it loud enough in High gain when auditioning Meze Liric.
I dont think sony would use a mobile DAC like Astell and kern dis for the acro CA1000 joke.

For me DMP is fine enough


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 10, 2022)

gerelmx1986 said:


> @Whitigir  i don't think that a M2 DMP-Z1 is coming, i think it was sonys hommage product to walkman.
> 
> Problems in DMP? Noise? I disnt hear any noise even playing it loud enough in High gain when auditioning Meze Liric.
> I dont think sony would use a mobile DAC like Astell and kern dis for the acro CA1000 joke.
> ...


I never said DMP-Z1 had any noises.  The noises were the inherent problems from the S-Master, and that was why Sony couldn’t fit S-Master inside the DMP-Z1.  Previously, they couldn’t figure out how to use the larger FPGA together with S-Master and in a combination with Analog amplifications, and still fitting it inside the DMP-Z1 either.  That was why AKM were used.

But, now, they have had it figured out.  The proof is inside the new Walkman M2.  They implemented Portable S-Master with powerful FPGA to run DSD-Remastering now.  Analog amplifications have always been inside the DMP-Z1 anyways.

So, fitting these new systems inside a DMP is possible now, with Dual portable S-Master + FPGA + Analog amplification.


----------



## Rob49

I weirdly had my DMP go back to where I had previously played from, hence not calculating the audio I had since played & the player had shut down automatically & had been for some time. I never ever power off anymore, so I’m a bit surprised this has happened again. ( First time, on my second player. )


----------



## Rob49

Can you use wireless headphones with the DMP-Z1 ??


----------



## MrWalkman

Rob49 said:


> Can you use wireless headphones with the DMP-Z1 ??



Yes, it has BT.


----------



## Rob49

MrWalkman said:


> Yes, it has BT.



I obviously thought so knowing it has BT.

Has anyone tried using wireless headphones & if so, what’s your thoughts ?


----------



## gerelmx1986

I use lnly wired HPs, mow MDR-Z1R has a pure silver cable WOOOT.


----------



## Whitigir

gerelmx1986 said:


> I use lnly wired HPs, mow MDR-Z1R has a pure silver cable WOOOT.


Congratulations! The rabbit hole runs deep! Keep chasing it !  We only have so long to enjoy these stuff.  You use it, or you lose it, eventually we will go deaf one day.  when it comes, you can’t even pay any amount of money to “hope to get these experiences anymore”


----------



## pdL389

efftee said:


> I have a question. Been using a couple of 512Gbs on the Z1 all this time and recently decided to upsize to 1Tb cards. After taking the time to create database, it shows 0 files. I tried several times, several cards, all of which worked perfectly on other DAPs, still same ZERO result. Reslotted the 512 cards, mounted with all tracks showing and functioning fine.
> 
> It appears the Z1 has a 512Gb capacity even though I couldn’t find anything on that. Thought I'd try reformatting the card on the DMP-Z1 but that’s really going to be my last ditch attempt, the 4-5 hours of refilling a 1Tb card isn't appealing at all.
> 
> Anyone ever successfully used a 1Tb card? Thanks ahead.


Yes, using SanDisc Extreme Pro, no problem on both DMP and WM1Z.  As soon as I got it, I let DMP format it.


----------



## efftee

pdL389 said:


> Yes, using SanDisc Extreme Pro, no problem on both DMP and WM1Z.  As soon as I got it, I let DMP format it.


Thanks. Problem solved; stupid me didn't use the Music folder for the tracks.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Has anyone tried plugging into the USB-C port an USB stick/SSD/Sd-Card reader and has it shown extra space/Removable media like the micro-SD slots?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Fibakky reached it

And


----------



## Damz87 (Apr 28, 2022)

Edit: it’s now sold 

Hi guys,

Regretfully I am selling my DMP-Z1. Shameless plug to my listing here:

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/sony-dmp-z1.24729/


----------



## The1Signature

Damz87 said:


> Edit: it’s now sold
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


that was fast


----------



## efftee

Damz87 said:


> Edit: it’s now sold
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...





The1Signature said:


> that was fast


More like lightning! Anyway, if anyone missed out on this, I am also selling my DMP-Z1. I have not put it up on the classifieds, but if you're keen, drop me a PM. 😊


----------



## Kiats

efftee said:


> More like lightning! Anyway, if anyone missed out on this, I am also selling my DMP-Z1. I have not put it up on the classifieds, but if you're keen, drop me a PM. 😊


Oh? Raising funds for the LP7?


----------



## efftee

Kiats said:


> Oh? Raising funds for the LP7?


Haha! Yeah, from how things are looking, I may have to throw in my kidneys too to be able to afford the LP7!


----------



## Kiats (Apr 29, 2022)

efftee said:


> Haha! Yeah, from how things are looking, I may have to throw in my kidneys too to be able to afford the LP7!


No la! Not so serious, I am sure.  In any event, the DMP is special from all accounts. Like the original 1A and 1Z, it is a classic.


----------



## gerelmx1986




----------



## pdL389

I am also joining the sellers wagon. My DMP was purchased on August 28, 2021 and only clocked  1183 hrs playtime,  In my case, trying to vacate funds for Hifiman Susvara and Ferrum OOR+HYPSOS.


----------



## Vamp898

pdL389 said:


> I am also joining the sellers wagon. My DMP was purchased on August 28, 2021 and only clocked  1183 hrs playtime,  In my case, trying to vacate funds for Hifiman Susvara and Ferrum OOR+HYPSOS.


Hifiman Susvara? Wow you're brave. It's the Softears of the Overhead World. Looking forward to your impression


----------



## paulchiu

bmichels said:


> I agree with you, I used to own the DAVE and found it to analytic and much prefered the NAGRA that I had the chance to test but not to own. So....the Nagra HD DAC is next on my purchase list.
> 
> Question: when you state "_the Nagra HD DAC sounds better than the Sony DMP-Z1_", did you use the Headphone output of the NAGRA or was it connected to an external headphone amplifier ?  What headphone did you use in this comparaison Nagra v/s Sony ?


Audeze LCD4, Abyss, a few Focal, and Sony Z1R.  The Sony did drive the Abyss with more low energy and played 2001 powerfully.


----------



## paulchiu

ianatkins said:


> HI I noticed you have the Kef active speakers - can you run them from the DMP and disable the Kef DAC?


they're the old LS50, driven by a 300B amp.


----------



## Gamerlingual (May 2, 2022)

It’s a bit concerning that people are selling their DMP’a all at once so suddenly. When it comes to the maintenance of these batteries or other parts, it has to be another investment in itself, possibly. I know we all want the best sound. I wish the buyers and sellers the best. Enjoy whatever sound makes you happy


----------



## The1Signature

maybe they know that, after wm1z m2 was released, the dmp-z1 m2 will come soon  - so sell it before the prices decrease.


----------



## Kiats

The1Signature said:


> maybe they know that, after wm1z m2 was released, the dmp-z1 m2 will come soon  - so sell it before the prices decrease.


It's a bit like the OG 1Z and 1A once the M2s were announced. There were those who picked up the OGs which would be discontinued. In any event, the DMP-Z1 has limited life in any event because the AKM DAC chips have been discontinued. In any event, those who do enjoy the Sony house sound could pick up the DMP-Z1M2 as well.


----------



## Rob49

The1Signature said:


> maybe they know that, after wm1z m2 was released, the dmp-z1 m2 will come soon  - so sell it before the prices decrease.



Why not have both….?


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Why not have both….?


Only the 1% can answer this 🤣


----------



## gerelmx1986

Whitigir said:


> Only the 1% can answer this 🤣


And from that 1%, how  many roljs are audiophiles? Many from the 1% have tons of old cars, boats, huge mansions, anti u w, watches etc... ive nev r com across aueiophile from 1%


----------



## Whitigir

gerelmx1986 said:


> And from that 1%, how  many roljs are audiophiles? Many from the 1% have tons of old cars, boats, huge mansions, anti u w, watches etc... ive nev r com across aueiophile from 1%


Steve job was an audiophile, but more like stereophile and not headphonesphile 😂.  Most if not all of the 1% is MoneyPhile


----------



## gerelmx1986

To me the DMP is very  special.

Fully analogue amp and full balanced.
Probably one of the few DAP with dual micro SD slot in 2022
Optimized for pure music playback. I know str aming dap can qlso be optimized for pure SQ, but why matter if we get transmitted glitches or remastered tracks?
Ability to used with AC current unlije many pirtable DAP rely on a battery that is always charged whenever one plugs the USB cable to the charger


----------



## Kiats

Having a late night listen...


----------



## Kiats

DeepSouth said:


> Are there any rumors of a dmp-z2? does Sony ever refresh flagships like this?


It will be interesting. Cos Sony had refreshed the WM DAPs. So, it may well be in the works. In any event, there’s a limit to the number of DMPs Sony can produce as the AKM DAC chips that it uses has now been discontinued.


----------



## efftee

Kiats said:


> It will be interesting. Cos Sony had refreshed the WM DAPs. So, it may well be in the works. In any event, there’s a limit to the number of DMPs Sony can produce as the AKM DAC chips that it uses has now been discontinued.


Well, now that there is a new AKM4499EX, with the interesting 4191 sidekick, maybe there will be something bigger than the baby walkmen cooking in the Sony oven...


----------



## Kiats

efftee said:


> Well, now that there is a new AKM4499EX, with the interesting 4191 sidekick, maybe there will be something bigger than the baby walkmen cooking in the Sony oven...


Absolutely! So, let's see what Sony comes up with.  Interesting times ahead!


----------



## gerelmx1986

Kiw is tour DMP-Z1 going @Rob49 ?


----------



## gerelmx1986

efftee said:


> Well, now that there is a new AKM4499EX, with the interesting 4191 sidekick, maybe there will be something bigger than the baby walkmen cooking in the Sony oven...


I doubt something is coming for the DMP, for me is that sony special product as a hommage for an anniversary (walkman) and wont ve a M2 version


----------



## Kiats

I will say that the DMP really does make the Focal Utopia sing. Using vinyl processor and DSEE HX. LDAC from the Samsung S21. Will try the DSD Remastering later.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Kiw is tour DMP-Z1 going @Rob49 ?



It’s going ok, but not going as mad on a daily basis. Been having some possible tinnitus problems ?? I’ve clocked up 344 hours on my second unit, to add to the previous 1200 hours, in 6 months. Had my second unit less than 3 months, so not bad going I guess.


----------



## Vamp898

efftee said:


> Well, now that there is a new AKM4499EX, with the interesting 4191 sidekick, maybe there will be something bigger than the baby walkmen cooking in the Sony oven...


Sony mostly used ESS DACs in their previous devices and still do in a lot of other. I doubt that they would have waited for an new AKM DAC for an DMP-Z1M2.

Also there is the new GaN S-Master HX and according to the developer, GaN Version doesn't need the Hybrid Amp. It is not known how much power it needs, but it could be run inside the DMP-Z1.

That would also make the DMP-Z1M2 much smaller and lighter.

So i personally place my bet that if there will be an successor to the DMP-Z1, it will use the new GaN S-Master HX from the SA-Z1 in an non hybrid setup.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> It’s going ok, but not going as mad on a daily basis. Been having some possible tinnitus problems ?? I’ve clocked up 344 hours on my second unit, to add to the previous 1200 hours, in 6 months. Had my second unit less than 3 months, so not bad going I guess.


Mine has accumulated  in 6 months 1022h


----------



## Layman1

gerelmx1986 said:


> Kiw is tour DMP-Z1 going @Rob49 ?


I read this and for a moment thought that there was a UK demo tour of the DMP-Z1. 
Got super excited, then realised it was just a typo


----------



## Kiats

Layman1 said:


> I read this and for a moment thought that there was a UK demo tour of the DMP-Z1.
> Got super excited, then realised it was just a typo


Haha! If it was a tour, definitely sign up!


----------



## gerelmx1986

Layman1 said:


> I read this and for a moment thought that there was a UK demo tour of the DMP-Z1.
> Got super excited, then realised it was just a typo


Woule hace been cool to hacehad a demo unit  touring around


----------



## Whitigir

No GAN can run inside DMP Z1 , at least for now.  It needs to be running off AC power , because it needs 100V or 360V supply


----------



## pdL389

I am tired of Van Nuys case and would like to get only a handle to be able to carry DMP around the house. Something similar I modeled in the photo below, but of course a sturdy (reliable) solution. Thanks!


----------



## Kiats

The Sony Kimber Kable for the MDR has finally arrived. Gorgeous off the DMP!


----------



## gerelmx1986

Kiats said:


> The Sony Kimber Kable for the MDR has finally arrived. Gorgeous off the DMP!


Silver won for me in SQ


----------



## Whitigir

gerelmx1986 said:


> Silver won for me in SQ


Yes! And same here


----------



## gerelmx1986

Whitigir said:


> Yes! And same here


A 450€ silver cable blew a top 800 USD kimber kable axios Cu


----------



## Vamp898

I have never heard any difference going from copper to silver.

I thought the silver cable produces an better bass with my IER-M9, but I was never really able to reproduce it


----------



## pdL389

Whitigir said:


> Yes! And same here


I am enjoying Kimber Axios *Hybrid* (8 braids of Cu + 8 braids of Silver)


----------



## gerelmx1986

pdL389 said:


> I am enjoying Kimber Axios *Hybrid* (8 braids of Cu + 8 braids of Silver)


Kimber cables dont wound d good as their prices may appear. European cables sound better (lavri)


----------



## pdL389

gerelmx1986 said:


> Kimber cables dont wound d good as their prices may appear. European cables sound better (lavri)


Maybe!  But there is the reason why Sony puts Kimber Kable in their Audio Equipment


----------



## Whitigir

pdL389 said:


> Maybe!  But there is the reason why Sony puts Kimber Kable in their Audio Equipment


Marketing stuff


----------



## Vamp898 (May 10, 2022)

pdL389 said:


> Maybe!  But there is the reason why Sony puts Kimber Kable in their Audio Equipment


Actually they are just marketed as Kimber Cable. They are made by Sony.

But to this point, no scientific method was able to show any difference in cables nor was any person ever able to detect the difference in an blind A/B Test.

If you ask an Sony Employee (in an Sony Store in Japan) or an e-earphone employee what's better with the Kimber Cable, they will tell you the design, durability, reduced cross talk, whatever.

But they will never ever tell you it sounds different.

And the stock cable is an silver plated OFC cable already. That's as good as it gets.

So the reason Sony sells cables Co-Designed by Kimber is because the name Kimber is an well established and trusted brand in the audiophile world plus they are extremely durable + their cool design.

And maybe some 1db reduced cross talk at around -130db.

But to this date, there is no source that is good enough anyway. So even if there would be an difference, neither the DMP-Z1 nor the TA-ZH1ES would be good enough to utilize it


----------



## pdL389 (May 10, 2022)

Vamp898 said:


> Actually they are just marketed as Kimber Cable. They are made by Sony.


That is true. This has been confirmed with Kimber Kable during my today’s conversation with them.


Vamp898 said:


> But to this point, no scientific method was able to show any difference in cables nor was any person ever able to detect the difference in an blind A/B Test.


Not true. I owned Sony Kimber (8-wires) and Kimber Axios Cu (24awg 16-wires). I was able to detect distinguishable difference in sound properties between those two cables.  Hearing is your science.


Vamp898 said:


> If you ask an Sony Employee (in an Sony Store in Japan) or an e-earphone employee what's better with the Kimber Cable, they will tell you the design, durability, reduced cross talk, whatever.
> 
> But they will never ever tell you it sounds different.
> 
> And the stock cable is an silver plated OFC cable already. That's as good as it gets.


Not true. You should try copper-silver (50/50)


Vamp898 said:


> So the reason Sony sells cables Co-Designed by Kimber is because the name Kimber is an well established and trusted brand in the audiophile world plus they are extremely durable + their cool design.


Not true. Sony Walkman engineer personally flew from Japan to meet with Ray Kimber, the founder of Kimber Kable back when WM1Z was being developed.  The engineer loved the sonic properties of Kimber and used it for the first time in the Walkman line.  The real Kimber Kable is now used in DMP and the new 1ZM2.  If in doubt, you can ring Kimber Kable company +1-801-621-5530.

As to Sony headphone cables, the only Kimber in them is the type of braiding that eliminates microphonics (licensed by Kimber), the wires are Sony’s.


Vamp898 said:


> And maybe some 1db reduced cross talk at around -130db.


Pure speculation


Vamp898 said:


> But to this date, there is no source that is good enough anyway. So even if there would be an difference, neither the DMP-Z1 nor the TA-ZH1ES would be good enough to utilize it


This does not make sense!


----------



## gerelmx1986

I see kimber kable like McDonald restaurant... the important is that people eat ane more revenue as opposed that the people say McD tastes good.
So kimber let Audiophiles buy cables despite they may not sound thaat good


----------



## The1Signature

gerelmx1986 said:


> I see kimber kable like McDonald restaurant


Enough audiophile reading for today :-D


----------



## andreas7

Work of art


----------



## Kiats

Some early morning listening with the Meze Empy and Eletech Inferno cables. AM streaming via LDAC. Direct source, DSD remastering. Sonic bliss.


----------



## Blueoris

Kiats said:


> Some early morning listening with the Meze Empy and Eletech Inferno cables. AM streaming via LDAC. Direct source, DSD remastering. Sonic bliss.


I trust that you are at the top of the sonic bliss 

Question: Of all your headphones, is this your favourite pairing with the DMP?


----------



## Kiats

Blueoris said:


> I trust that you are at the top of the sonic bliss
> 
> Question: Of all your headphones, is this your favourite pairing with the DMP?


I am actually slowly working my way through my headphones and the DMP. Currently, of the ones I have tried, I do like this combo very much. Longer listening may provide a different outcome.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Kiats said:


> Some early morning listening with the Meze Empy and Eletech Inferno cables. AM streaming via LDAC. Direct source, DSD remastering. Sonic bliss.


MDR-Z1R with Lavricables Grand. Direct wit DSD remastering


----------



## xjaynine

Kiats said:


> I am actually slowly working my way through my headphones and the DMP. Currently, of the ones I have tried, I do like this combo very much. Longer listening may provide a different outcome.


Always a good time rediscovering old headphones on upgraded sources.

What's your take on the WM1ZM2 vs DMP-Z1 so far? Are the sound signatures similar?


----------



## Kiats

xjaynine said:


> Always a good time rediscovering old headphones on upgraded sources.
> 
> What's your take on the WM1ZM2 vs DMP-Z1 so far? Are the sound signatures similar?


Absolutely! The Utopia sounded really good on the DMP. Will rotate it back again soon.

The sound signatures are similar. Though not surprisingly, the DMP still takes it. Better width and headroom and greater note weight.


----------



## The1Signature

Kiats said:


> Absolutely! The Utopia sounded really good on the DMP. Will rotate it back again soon.
> 
> The sound signatures are similar. Though not surprisingly, the DMP still takes it. Better width and headroom and greater note weight.


so one can hear what the sony signature teams claims: wm1zm2 was influenced by the dmp-z1 signature.

i still have the wm1z but wanted to buy a japanese wm1zm2 version, soon.


----------



## Kiats

The1Signature said:


> so one can hear what the sony signature teams claims: wm1zm2 was influenced by the dmp-z1 signature.



Indeed.


----------



## Kiats

Some Saturday morning easy listening with the Utopia.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Kiats said:


> Some Saturday morning easy listening with the Utopia.


----------



## Blueoris

Kiats said:


> Some Saturday morning easy listening with the Utopia.


This pairing would be my audio nirvana


----------



## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> Some Saturday morning easy listening with the Utopia.


I just noticed your inventory list. Wowsers. You’re definitely the 1% of the world who can afford the thousands of dollars of items you have. Keep enjoying them. We only have one life to appreciate them after all


----------



## Xanderman

I saw on the Sony online store that the DMP is a Special Order. Does this mean that the DMP becoming EOL soon?


----------



## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> I just noticed your inventory list. Wowsers. You’re definitely the 1% of the world who can afford the thousands of dollars of items you have. Keep enjoying them. We only have one life to appreciate them after all


Ah. It’s an aggregation over more than 10 years.  A lot of what I get are for keeps.


----------



## Kiats

Xanderman said:


> I saw on the Sony online store that the DMP is a Special Order. Does this mean that the DMP becoming EOL soon?


Yes. What it means is they will take a while to source for it in other locations. Like how they did it for my TA-ZH1ES. So it is a good sign that they even put Special Order. Which means there is a commitment to bring in one for you.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> Ah. It’s an aggregation over more than 10 years.  A lot of what I get are for keeps.


We’re on the same boat. I don’t sell my equipment. They’re all special for different reasons.


----------



## Xanderman

Kiats said:


> Yes. What it means is they will take a while to source for it in other locations. Like how they did it for my TA-ZH1ES. So it is a good sign that they even put Special Order. Which means there is a commitment to bring in one for you.


I am so tempted to order one 

Heart says "Do it!"

Head says "Wait for version 2"

Heart says "What if there is no version 2?"

😅


----------



## gerelmx1986

Xanderman said:


> I am so tempted to order one
> 
> Heart says "Do it!"
> 
> ...


Sp was i unril i was brave enough and pulled the trigger pn one


----------



## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> We’re on the same boat. I don’t sell my equipment. They’re all special for different reasons.


Meant to ask you: how is the MDR-27M2 that you have? compared to the MDR-Z1R


----------



## Kiats

Xanderman said:


> I am so tempted to order one
> 
> Heart says "Do it!"
> 
> ...


Well, if you do appreciate how it sounds, does it matter? In any event, knowing how the current situation is like, who knows when we will get our hands on one?


----------



## Vamp898 (Jun 9, 2022)

Xanderman said:


> I am so tempted to order one
> 
> Heart says "Do it!"
> 
> ...


I mean lets be honest, even if there is a Version 2, the improvements will be marginal if existend at all.

Sony themself said, the development of Digital Amps is dead and there is pretty much no room for improvement anymore.

The WM1ZM2 from 2022 uses the exact same Digital Amp as the WM1Z.

There have been improvements on other areas on the device and Digital Amps do improve significantly if the components around it improve.

But the TA-ZH1ES was developed without any constrains or limitations in mind, that is why it is better than both WM1Z and WM1ZM2.

If there will be an successor to the TA-ZH1ES, i don't expect an upgrade in sound quality. It most likely will rather be a different than better sound, if at all.

//EDIT: I just noticed that i was in the wrong Thread  im sorry. the DMP-Z1 does not have an Digital Amp, so what i said is irrelevant.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> Well, if you do appreciate how it sounds, does it matter? In any event, knowing how the current situation is like, who knows when we will get our hands on one?


Relaxed and very gentle. I can sleep with them easily. You still hear the mids and highs. The soundstage is very wide yet boxy, which means the mids are a bit more pronounced. You can hear the treble with no problems. They don’t shatter your eardrums and would make for a wonderful compliment to the DMP, really. Definitely a difference than the Z1R. Better? Hard to say as some people like the Z7M2 more and I’m ok with that. I love them both. So I’m lucky to own them.


----------



## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> Relaxed and very gentle. I can sleep with them easily. You still hear the mids and highs. The soundstage is very wide yet boxy, which means the mids are a bit more pronounced. You can hear the treble with no problems. They don’t shatter your eardrums and would make for a wonderful compliment to the DMP, really. Definitely a difference than the Z1R. Better? Hard to say as some people like the Z7M2 more and I’m ok with that. I love them both. So I’m lucky to own them.


Thanks for the impressions! 🙏


----------



## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> Thanks for the impressions! 🙏


The comfort of those cups is amazing. I should try them with the DMP just for fun at one of the electronics shops in Tokyo


----------



## Kiats

Pulled out the Final Sonorous X for a spin with the DMP. Since I was putting it through its paces with the TAZ. Still as musical and lush as it has always been. Old friend.


----------



## Vamp898

Kiats said:


> Pulled out the Final Sonorous X for a spin with the DMP. Since I was putting it through its paces with the TAZ. Still as musical and lush as it has always been. Old friend.


The Final are an excellent Match to Sony's sound signature.

E5000, A8000, D8000, all excellent Matches.


----------



## gerelmx1986

@Whitigir  the amp section of the TA-Z1HES is class A or class A/B? I know DMP has a TI TPA amp which is A/B


----------



## Whitigir

gerelmx1986 said:


> @Whitigir  the amp section of the TA-Z1HES is class A or class A/B? I know DMP has a TI TPA amp which is A/B


Definitely A/B


----------



## Vamp898

It should be this


----------



## Wikinaut

Why does the DMP require me to turn down the volume 0 whenever it comes out of standby? It's the only audio processor I have that requires it. Curious why that is.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Wikinaut said:


> Why does the DMP require me to turn down the volume 0 whenever it comes out of standby? It's the only audio processor I have that requires it. Curious why that is.


Ro  p ot cr tour heqring from a possible sudden loud volume output. For example if tou forgot that you were playing out loud mueic with a set of Planars and then you devide to use IEM


----------



## gerelmx1986

@Wikinaut  you can deactivate it on settings. But then you are subjected to forgetfulness. In previous post i mean to  protect your hearing


----------



## Wikinaut

gerelmx1986 said:


> @Wikinaut  you can deactivate it on settings. But then you are subjected to forgetfulness. In previous post i mean to  protect your hearing



Thanks! I never connected the dots with "Auto Muting" in the settings. I tend to use the same headphones all the time, so it should be safe to turn off.


----------



## Kiats

Some Sunday morning listening on the DMP streaming from the DX300 into the LCD3.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Kiats said:


> Some Sunday morning listening on the DMP streaming from the DX300 into the LCD3.


Why not as USB DAC instead of Bluetooth


----------



## xjaynine

Does anyone know where to find the service/ parts manual for the DMP? Google search is not showing up with anything. Looking to buy a volume knob for DIY project


----------



## Kiats (Jun 20, 2022)

gerelmx1986 said:


> Why not as USB DAC instead of Bluetooth


I am using USB DAC from my Melco N10P as Roon endpoint into the TA-ZH1ES.


----------



## Vamp898 (Jul 8, 2022)

I've seen some tests that showed, that an LDAC Connection is pretty much identical to an cable connection.

This have to be taken with a grain of salt as this assumes an perfect conneciton which, of course, can not always be guaranteed. But there was one guy measureing the output using USB DAC and Bluetooth and comparing them and did not find any difference.

But it was just one guy doing one test, it seems the interest ins not big enough to do any further testing as most audiophiles just don't use Bluetooth at all.

But i use my DAP as Bluetooth Receiver quite often, especially outside the house, and i have not heard any difference in sound quality yet.

But i always force highest quality which, sometimes, causes connection issues. So skipping parts and stuff like that when there are a lot of disturbing signals like on big train stations.


----------



## MrWalkman

xjaynine said:


> Does anyone know where to find the service/ parts manual for the DMP? Google search is not showing up with anything. Looking to buy a volume knob for DIY project



https://www.dropbox.com/s/du6ld6l08bk0v49/DMP_Z1_service_manual.pdf


----------



## Kiats

Vamp898 said:


> I've seen some tests that showed, thet an LDAC Connection is pretty much identical do an cable connection.
> 
> This have to be taken with a grain of salt as this assumes an perfect conneciton which, of course, can not always be guaranteed. But there was one guy measureing the output using USB DAC and Bluetooth and comparing them and did not find any difference.
> 
> ...


I force highest quality as well since it is for home use.


----------



## xjaynine

MrWalkman said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/du6ld6l08bk0v49/DMP_Z1_service_manual.pdf


Thank you very much @MrWalkman. Have been searching for weeks.


----------



## Rob49

My carer found this on the floor this morning. I immediately recognised it, that it was off my cable & recall having them on other devices.

It was open & I closed it up & can’t see how to open it up again.

I’ve never known exactly what it is, or what purpose it serves ? I checked my DMP & everything is working ok, playing, transferring & charging.

Do I need to get this fixed back on the cable ? I can’t recall the exact position it fits around the cable ?

It’s awhile ago now, but one came off another cable / device & I vaguely recall something wasn’t working then ? ( & I just panicked thinking of this, but as I said, everything appears to be working correctly. )


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> My carer found this on the floor this morning. I immediately recognised it, that it was off my cable & recall having them on other devices.
> 
> It was open & I closed it up & can’t see how to open it up again.
> 
> ...


You don't need to send it back to Sony because the metal ferrite fell down you cam put it back


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> You don't need to send it back to Sony because the metal ferrite fell down you cam put it back



Thanks for reply. I asked on another forum & they explained what it was & it’s function. ( When I read, it triggered my memory, that I had read about it’s function before, quite sometime ago. )

I’ve actually just looked again at how you open it ( & I have ) & clipped it back around the cable.


----------



## Lord Chaos

I don't remember when I first heard of the DMP-Z1. Beautiful, I thought, and capable, but why replace the computer? Be nice if I could justify it.

Move forward a few years. There are times I don't want to start the computer. A portable player would do the job. My Pono Player had become gummy and sticky, and it lacked power. It never really worked well. I was also annoyed: investments going into the tank, while the managers always get their cut. Can't I have some fun with my money too? I remembered the DMP. Do it.

Oops. I waited too long. Apparently it has been discontinued. Not quite yet, though; I found a place that had some and decided to stop dithering and buy it.

First impressions: The box is bigger than expected. An unboxing unlike any other. The unit itself is imposing, much bigger than it looks in photographs. I charged the batter and connected it to my Mac music server to copy a few albums. Then I plugged in the LCD-4 headphones and drifted off. It sounds as good as anything else I've heard, no matter the type of music. Physically beautiful and makes beautiful sound. I can't ask for any more.

I like the muting function. There's a lot of variability in recordings, so starting low is good. I did set High Gain for a better match with my 'phones.

It is portable enough. It has enough power to run my chosen headphones. I'm glad I have it.


----------



## Kiats

Lord Chaos said:


> I don't remember when I first heard of the DMP-Z1. Beautiful, I thought, and capable, but why replace the computer? Be nice if I could justify it.
> 
> Move forward a few years. There are times I don't want to start the computer. A portable player would do the job. My Pono Player had become gummy and sticky, and it lacked power. It never really worked well. I was also annoyed: investments going into the tank, while the managers always get their cut. Can't I have some fun with my money too? I remembered the DMP. Do it.
> 
> ...


Congratulations! I am a latecomer myself. I was fortunate to take over @Damz87 ’s unit. Do play around with it. It streams as well, either via the USB DAC or via BT (up to LDAC). You can also choose to run it via DC rather than battery as well. Lotsa options. The various DSP options including DSD upsampling are great too.


----------



## Lord Chaos

I haven't moved into the Streaming Age, other than to sample music on Youtube. I buy CDs, buy albums to download from Hyperion and Bandcamp and Artistshare. That all resides on a 2 TB RAID-1 SSD system, directly attached. I've compared 16-bit, 44.1kHz files to 24-bit, 96kHz files, some recorded myself, some purchased from other sources. My conclusion is that while my hearing is pretty good I can't hear any differences consistently. Sometimes I think the 24-bit files are more enveloping, but then I run into a really good 16-bit recording and become enveloped in that. A good recording through a good DAC is going to sound good.

I spent some time this afternoon writing. Headphones on, listening to Dave Brubeck, Renaissance, Peter Gabriel and Joshua Bell. What comes out of the 'phones depends on what's on the record. The Joshua Bell album ("French Impressions") is well recorded and sounds lovely. I haven't tried any of the other reconstruction filters yet.


----------



## Kiats

Lord Chaos said:


> I haven't moved into the Streaming Age, other than to sample music on Youtube. I buy CDs, buy albums to download from Hyperion and Bandcamp and Artistshare. That all resides on a 2 TB RAID-1 SSD system, directly attached. I've compared 16-bit, 44.1kHz files to 24-bit, 96kHz files, some recorded myself, some purchased from other sources. My conclusion is that while my hearing is pretty good I can't hear any differences consistently. Sometimes I think the 24-bit files are more enveloping, but then I run into a really good 16-bit recording and become enveloped in that. A good recording through a good DAC is going to sound good.
> 
> I spent some time this afternoon writing. Headphones on, listening to Dave Brubeck, Renaissance, Peter Gabriel and Joshua Bell. What comes out of the 'phones depends on what's on the record. The Joshua Bell album ("French Impressions") is well recorded and sounds lovely. I haven't tried any of the other reconstruction filters yet.


Ah… One thing I have learned since moving into streaming is that you are much less limited on what is available. Agree: the higher resolution stuff gives you more of the space in between which is stripped out in redbook albums. Do give the DSD upsampling option available on the DMP and see what you think.  

Enjoy! And once again, congrats on a great buy!


----------



## gerelmx1986




----------



## Lord Chaos

I understand that I'd get nearly unlimited choices in streaming music. Something in me resists doing it, even from CD-quality sources. Maybe I'm just too cheap...

Is there a secret to getting the DMP to read from a micro-SD card? I've formatted cards on the DMP, then copied files to the card using either a PC or a Mac. The files are there, and the DMP takes longer to update the library than it does with a blank card. The music never shows up in the Albums list. I've tried multiple cards in both slots and nothing has worked. I can't believe both slots are faulty, so I'm thinking I'm not doing something correctly.

Copying directly to the machine's memory using the USB cable works perfectly, and it plays all the formats I've tried.


----------



## Kiats

Lord Chaos said:


> I understand that I'd get nearly unlimited choices in streaming music. Something in me resists doing it, even from CD-quality sources. Maybe I'm just too cheap...
> 
> Is there a secret to getting the DMP to read from a micro-SD card? I've formatted cards on the DMP, then copied files to the card using either a PC or a Mac. The files are there, and the DMP takes longer to update the library than it does with a blank card. The music never shows up in the Albums list. I've tried multiple cards in both slots and nothing has worked. I can't believe both slots are faulty, so I'm thinking I'm not doing something correctly.
> 
> Copying directly to the machine's memory using the USB cable works perfectly, and it plays all the formats I've tried.


Haha! It works out to be a whole lot cheaper than buying CDs. Without the clutter.  

As the issue you have with the SD card, as with all Sony players, you have to create a folder named “MUSIC” in the root directory and plonk the music files inside there in order for Sony to recognise the music files. Hope that helps.


----------



## stephze (Jul 8, 2022)

Damz87 said:


> Edit: it’s now sold
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> ...


Ah man, I told you to ping me if you ever thought about selling it to add to my used @Damz87  collection. It recently piqued my interest again, but missed out by a few months!


----------



## Damz87

stephze said:


> Ah man, I told you to ping me if you ever thought about selling it to add to my used @Damz87  collection. It recently piqued my interest again, but missed out by a few months!


Sorry @stephze I completely forgot you mentioned that! It was quite a long time ago 😆 anyway, perhaps it’s worth trying the new WM1ZM2. For me, it has filled the gap of DMP-Z1 and I don’t miss it at all.


----------



## stephze

Damz87 said:


> Sorry @stephze I completely forgot you mentioned that! It was quite a long time ago 😆 anyway, perhaps it’s worth trying the new WM1ZM2. For me, it has filled the gap of DMP-Z1 and I don’t miss it at all.


Lockdowns made me lose a year of my mind! Maybe give the Wm1z m2 a go this year. I’ve been loving the Tazzy lately and picked up a cheap wm1a off FB last year which pairs well. Might pick your brain later about what you like comparatively. Cheers!


----------



## Gamerlingual

Damz87 said:


> Sorry @stephze I completely forgot you mentioned that! It was quite a long time ago 😆 anyway, perhaps it’s worth trying the new WM1ZM2. For me, it has filled the gap of DMP-Z1 and I don’t miss it at all.


How much more close is the 1M Z2 to the DMP?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Lord Chaos said:


> I understand that I'd get nearly unlimited choices in streaming music. Something in me resists doing it, even from CD-quality sources. Maybe I'm just too cheap...
> 
> Is there a secret to getting the DMP to read from a micro-SD card? I've formatted cards on the DMP, then copied files to the card using either a PC or a Mac. The files are there, and the DMP takes longer to update the library than it does with a blank card. The music never shows up in the Albums list. I've tried multiple cards in both slots and nothing has worked. I can't believe both slots are faulty, so I'm thinking I'm not doing something correctly.
> 
> Copying directly to the machine's memory using the USB cable works perfectly, and it plays all the formats I've tried.


Files must be inside fokder cqlled Music. You need to move your already copied files and folders to this directoey


----------



## Lord Chaos

Thank you for the responses.

Following Pono Player practices, I simply formatted the cards in the DMP-Z1, then transferred music without opening the card on the computer. Last night, troubleshooting, I opened a card to make sure the music files were there, and noticed the MUSIC folder. I dragged the files inside that and all is well; both slots work as intended.

A note on WAV files:
The DMP will play WAV files but it doesn't recognize metadata applied with Itunes. There is no standard for metadata in the WAV specification. I end up with these files after using Exact Audio Copy to copy music from CDs having defects that Itunes can't handle. Maybe 1 in 100 discs. EAC will export either WAV or MP3, with tags. Itunes will read those tags. Most of my EAC copies I've converted to Apple Lossless but a few older ones are still WAV. I used some of these older files in testing and ended up with lots of UNKNOWN tracks.

Volume experiences:
Before buying the DMP, I looked into Sony's other advanced player, the one that just got updated to mark 2. It was looking good until I saw that it has a typical portable power output of 60mW. I didn't think that would work well with my planar magnetic headphones because they need power. The Benchmark DAC1 HDR drives them easily, with the volume control at about 10 o'clock. The DMP needed its volume at about 12 to 1 o'clock until I turned on high power mode. Now it's usually around 11 o'clock.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Wave  files are super difficult to get rhwm properly tagged. I use FLAC


----------



## Sp12er3

Vamp898 said:


> I've seen some tests that showed, thet an LDAC Connection is pretty much identical do an cable connection.
> 
> This have to be taken with a grain of salt as this assumes an perfect conneciton which, of course, can not always be guaranteed. But there was one guy measureing the output using USB DAC and Bluetooth and comparing them and did not find any difference.
> 
> ...


Hopefully places like Linus Tech tips' Lab content may explore that in the future.


----------



## Vamp898

Sp12er3 said:


> Hopefully places like Linus Tech tips' Lab content may explore that in the future.


There are already measurements of that^^ even several. So I think it's pretty much proven at this point.

But Linus Tech Tips is, imho, not a reliable source. I didn't even knew that he has Audio content but most of its other content is just entertainment and often heavily lacks basic understanding on how things work or just straight up wrong information. I mean, he is just an YouTuber, nothing more, nothing less. He is an Entertainer.

He is just throwing his YouTube money hard enough and hopes nobody notices his lack of knowledge due to his production value.

Imho it's the same issue with satirical content and politics. As soon someone puts his knowledge on surface level into an entertaining package, people suddenly mistake it for knowledge


----------



## Wikinaut

Lord Chaos said:


> A note on WAV files:
> The DMP will play WAV files but it doesn't recognize metadata applied with Itunes. There is no standard for metadata in the WAV specification. I end up with these files after using Exact Audio Copy to copy music from CDs having defects that Itunes can't handle. Maybe 1 in 100 discs. EAC will export either WAV or MP3, with tags. Itunes will read those tags. Most of my EAC copies I've converted to Apple Lossless but a few older ones are still WAV. I used some of these older files in testing and ended up with lots of UNKNOWN tracks.


EAC can also export to FLAC, which is lossless and fully supported by the DMP.


----------



## Sp12er3

Vamp898 said:


> There are already measurements of that^^ even several. So I think it's pretty much proven at this point.
> 
> But Linus Tech Tips is, imho, not a reliable source. I didn't even knew that he has Audio content but most of its other content is just entertainment and often heavily lacks basic understanding on how things work or just straight up wrong information. I mean, he is just an YouTuber, nothing more, nothing less. He is an Entertainer.
> 
> ...


That's exactly why he build the lab, he plan to make comprehensive repository of objective data using professional grade gear done by people well versed in each niche. watch Crin's video about tips he gave to linus. 
Linus is a great mc, his knowledge span to quite a lot of things, and the stuff he knows is deep enough to ask the right questions to the right people. 
The problem with this is there's no standard on testing how true a tech spec is, one guy say so, one manufacturer say so, most just follow along. Then when truth is found, information of it is not propagated well enough
What is production value in LTT videos? They thrive in being janky and off the cuff 🤣


----------



## Vamp898

Sp12er3 said:


> That's exactly why he build the lab, he plan to make comprehensive repository of objective data using professional grade gear done by people well versed in each niche. watch Crin's video about tips he gave to linus.
> Linus is a great mc, his knowledge span to quite a lot of things, and the stuff he knows is deep enough to ask the right questions to the right people.
> The problem with this is there's no standard on testing how true a tech spec is, one guy say so, one manufacturer say so, most just follow along. Then when truth is found, information of it is not propagated well enough
> What is production value in LTT videos? They thrive in being janky and off the cuff 🤣


Crinacles knowledge is just slightly deeper than the average. That is exactly the reason the Dusk sounds broken in many ways. It was tuned to a certain curve completely ignoring the characteristics of the driver.

Just watch his video about "You can see how headphones sound"

For Crinacle, tuning equals sound, but this is not the reality.

It's not that what he says is wrong, the issue is that he is talking only about a very small and specific aspect and is making it sound like this is the most important.

No fr graph teils (especially those involving a coupler or head simulation) you how something sounds. It tells you how something is tuned, nothing more, nothing less.

And I am pretty sure that Whatever Linus is doing will be the same oversimplified level of knowledge that then nerds will spread without even completely understanding this oversimplified version.

I think there is a reason why Sony, Final, Acoustune and other established brands are tuning their devices with musicians and only additionally measure them to verify their findings, and there is a reason why ChiFi is tuned using computers and measurements only.

We already have more than enough upper mids focused In-Ear that make everything sounds harsh and wrong. The least thing we need is more people who support these companies because an YouTuber said that this harsh and unpleasant tuning is what you should listen to because it produces an nice graph.

We need more companies who have the balls to create unique tunings like Final, Audeze and Co.

YouTubers already have way too much power and can force Headphone makers into following an specific tuning by punishing them when they don't.

Sorry for the rant but somehow this Hobby is turning more and more from "Listening to see what sound well" to "What does meet the personal taste of this single YouTuber". It's just sad to read more and more people post "I bought 5 audiophile flagships and they all sound bad so I gave up on audiophile Earphones, they are just a rip off" and then you look what they bought and of course, it's all ChiFi and if course, all because they measured sooo gooooood. People start to question their brain and their ears asking "Is it me or why do all these hyped to death Earphone sound just bad, I rather listen to silence".

This is not what this Hobby was and is about.


----------



## Lord Chaos

Vamp898 said "Sorry for the rant but somehow this Hobby is turning more and more from "Listening to see what sound well" to "What does meet the personal taste of this single YouTuber"."

This is an interesting comment to me because the only way I know of to find out if I like the sound of something is to live with it for a while. How do I make a decision? Why, for example, choose the DMP-Z1 over other DAPs that are much less expensive? I read multiple reviews through about two years. Spending this kind of money isn't a decision made lightly. If I really wanted to find out what I like, I'd have to buy many test units and try them, day in, day out. I can't afford to do that, so I compare reviews and then try it. Sometimes this works out; the DMP has been a delight since the day it arrived. Others have been more problematic.

It was the same way with the LCD-4 I bought. Read reviews, balance and compare. Going to a show would do me no good because the time is too short and the venue is too noisy. It's another purchase I've never regretted.

Now I'm going to try a direct experiment, one that's not too expensive. The DMP has a "balanced" output on a 4.4mm jack. There's also a standard stereo output on a 3.5mm jack. The LCD-4 has a 1/4" connector so I have to use an adapter. I found a cable that omits the adapter in my choice of 3.5mm stereo or 4.4mm "balanced." I decided to try the latter and see what my psychoacoustic system thinks of this set up. Some say it's the cat's meow. Others say it degrades the sound. Who's right? I don't know. There's one way to find out, and this one's cheap enough to try personally, through time, with my DMP and LCD-4. The cable should be here next week.


----------



## coolhand

Hiya peeps,
Just a heads up to let y'all know I've just listed my mint DMP-Z1 + MDR-Z1R's in the classifieds 

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/sony-dmp-z1-sony-mdr-z1r.29911/


----------



## Rob49 (Aug 6, 2022)

Well, as most of you guys know, I purchased my DMP-Z1, just gone 12 months ago, last week. Clocking up over 1200 hours, in just under 6 months, before having to be replaced.
I’ve presently clocked up 630 hours with my replacement player & recently had an hearing test, instigated by the fact that I have ear wax build up, which I get periodically, like everyone.
I’m obviously concerned about the hearing loss, but given the test was done, with my ears full of wax, it’s not a true reflection of the loss. I’m being careful of my volume levels, makes you realise how precious hearing is.
Well, I paid to have my ears syringed, this past week & I’m probably hearing my DMP-Z1 at a detailed level, that I hadn’t during the past 12 months. For me, it does highlight again, how truly unique this player is.
Hopefully, continued, sensible listening, for years to come…..


----------



## Gamerlingual

Rob49 said:


> Well, as most of you guys now, I purchased my DMP-Z1, just gone 12 months ago, last week. Clocking up over 1200 hours, in just under 6 months, before having to be replaced.
> I’ve presently clocked up 630 hours with my replacement player & recently had an hearing test, instigated by the fact that I have ear wax build up, which I get periodically, like everyone.
> I’m obviously concerned about the hearing loss, but given the test was done, with my ears full of wax, it’s not a true reflection of the loss. I’m being careful of my volume levels, makes you realise how precious hearing is.
> Well, I paid to have my ears syringed, this past week & I’m probably hearing my DMP-Z1 at a detailed level, that I hadn’t during the past 12 months. For me, it does highlight again, how truly unique this player is.
> Hopefully, continued, sensible listening, for years to come…..


It’s a forgone conclusion that this can happen to anyone. You’ll be fine without a doubt


----------



## Halimj7

Vamp898 said:


> Crinacles knowledge is just slightly deeper than the average. That is exactly the reason the Dusk sounds broken in many ways. It was tuned to a certain curve completely ignoring the characteristics of the driver.
> 
> Just watch his video about "You can see how headphones sound"
> 
> ...


I agree. Also do you notice that this approach to target Harmon is for younger listeners that don’t typically spend money on a lot of hi-fi. The bulk of collectors that I know are older and are looking for multiple products that are unique and tuned differently; if everything is tuned the same what is the point of buying multiple products to experience different sounds?!


----------



## Gamerlingual

Halimj7 said:


> I agree. Also do you notice that this approach to target Harmon is for younger listeners that don’t typically spend money on a lot of hi-fi. The bulk of collectors that I know are older and are looking for multiple products that are unique and tuned differently; if everything is tuned the same what is the point of buying multiple products to experience different sounds?!


I never reference Harmon for that reason. I just want to enjoy what my ears like. The DMP is one of those gems.


----------



## bmichels

*Lotoo Mjölnir:* A new competitor to the DMP-Z1 ?   we will see....


----------



## The1Signature

price


bmichels said:


> *Lotoo Mjölnir:* A new competitor to the DMP-Z1 ?   we will see....


 price tag?


----------



## Kiats

Cross post from the MySphere 3.1 thread: Today, I have been spending time with the MySphere 3.2 out of the Sony DMP-Z1. I have been meaning to try it for some time. I have used the MS 3.1 with the DMP before and enjoyed the experience. But not the 3.2. I am very pleased with how great the combination sounds with the DMP on direct sound and DSD upsampling on. Great density, excellent bass impact as well.


----------



## gerelmx1986

my DMP reached 1350 hours in  pntgs. Reallz like it


----------



## coolhand (Aug 15, 2022)

Another headz up.. just editied my DMP-Z1 listing which is now inclusive of international shipping 😎

Signature Series Digital Music Player


----------



## Rob49

Well, I’m loving my DMP-Z1 more than ever, since having my ears syringed. In the last 48 Hrs, I’ve accumulated 26 hrs of listening, 13 hrs for each day. It’s just so addictive !


----------



## Rob49

Kiats said:


> Cross post from the MySphere 3.1 thread: Today, I have been spending time with the MySphere 3.2 out of the Sony DMP-Z1. I have been meaning to try it for some time. I have used the MS 3.1 with the DMP before and enjoyed the experience. But not the 3.2. I am very pleased with how great the combination sounds with the DMP on direct sound and DSD upsampling on. Great density, excellent bass impact as well.



Do you have a favourite headphone, with the DMP-Z1 ?


----------



## Kiats

Rob49 said:


> Do you have a favourite headphone, with the DMP-Z1 ?


For me, I think it’s a toss up between the Utopia, MDR-Z1R and the MySphere 3.1 and 3.2. I listen on high gain with the DSD remastering on.


----------



## Rob49 (Aug 17, 2022)

Kiats said:


> For me, I think it’s a toss up between the Utopia, MDR-Z1R and the MySphere 3.1 and 3.2. I listen on high gain with the DSD remastering on.



Thanks for that. Out of those, I own the MDR-Z1R’s & as I’ve posted before, I don’t think they’re a good match. I find them quite flat sounding & unexciting. It’s reminded to try them out again, which I’m doing presently….
I would like to buy a new headphone, but I can’t audition any, or want the hassle of returning. I would be interested to know what others class as their go to headphone with the DMP-Z1.

Mentioning the Utopia’s, I’ve always wondered what the Stellia’s would sound like, because ideally I need a closed back.


----------



## Wikinaut

I'm very fond of how the Dan Clark Stealth sound with the DMP-Z1. Best closed-back phones I've experienced. YMMV


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for that. Out of those, I own the MDR-Z1R’s & as I’ve posted before, I don’t think they’re a good match. I find them quite flat sounding & unexciting. It’s reminded to try them out again, which I’m doing presently….
> I would like to buy a new headphone, but I can’t audition any, or want the hassle of returning. I would be interested to know what others class as their go to headphone with the DMP-Z1.
> 
> Mentioning the Utopia’s, I’ve always wondered what the Stellia’s would sound like, because ideally I need a closed back.


I have MDR-Z1R with silver cables and I is another her beast


----------



## pdL389

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for that. Out of those, I own the MDR-Z1R’s & as I’ve posted before, I don’t think they’re a good match. I find them quite flat sounding & unexciting. It’s reminded to try them out again, which I’m doing presently….
> I would like to buy a new headphone, but I can’t audition any, or want the hassle of returning. I would be interested to know what others class as their go to headphone with the DMP-Z1.
> 
> Mentioning the Utopia’s, I’ve always wondered what the Stellia’s would sound like, because ideally I need a closed back.


Audeze LCD-4z pairs nicely with DMP..


----------



## Rob49

Wikinaut said:


> I'm very fond of how the Dan Clark Stealth sound with the DMP-Z1. Best closed-back phones I've experienced. YMMV



Thanks for the suggestion, but for two reasons, I don’t think they’re viable, due to price, but mainly I need headphones, that I can wear laying on my side.


gerelmx1986 said:


> I have MDR-Z1R with silver cables and I is another her beast



I’d be concerned to buy a silver cable & still not feel happy.


pdL389 said:


> Audeze LCD-4z pairs nicely with DMP..


For the same reasons, as above.


----------



## Sp12er3 (Aug 20, 2022)

Found these being sold for nearly 10x of a used TA-ZH1ES... Is it worth the upgrade from it? I'm eyeing one right now, and they can be found for around 900 usd locally.


Rob49 said:


> I’d be concerned to buy a silver cable & still not feel happy.


Same, I have heard sound differences cable change make before, it's just for me they are minor enough to be negligible. Everyone I know do recommend changing the cable on the Z1R tho. I'm just too lazy to do it, maybe after mine broke first I'd do it.
At least unlike the IEM Kimber, I don't think anyone is making a fake Kimber Kable for the MDR (Z7/Z1R) model, and that one can be found relativy affordably
Edit: sorry misinformation, can't find em THAT low.


----------



## Rob49

Sp12er3 said:


> Found these being sold used for 3700 usd... Is it worth the upgrade from TA-ZH1ES? I'm eyeing one right now, and they can also be found for around 900 usd locally.
> 
> Same, I have heard sound differences cable change make before, it's just for me they are minor enough to be negligible. Everyone I know do recommend changing the cable on the Z1R tho. I'm just too lazy to do it, maybe after mine broke first I'd do it.
> At least unlike the IEM Kimber, I don't think anyone is making a fake Kimber Kable for the MDR (Z7/Z1R) model, and that one can be found relativy affordably



Oh, I bought a custom made cable for my MDR-Z1R’s, not silver though & after all this time, I’m not excited by them. I liked them at first, but over time, I just came to the conclusion that they’re a bit flat. ( for me. )


----------



## Sp12er3

Rob49 said:


> Oh, I bought a custom made cable for my MDR-Z1R’s, not silver though & after all this time, I’m not excited by them. I liked them at first, but over time, I just came to the conclusion that they’re a bit flat. ( for me. )


Well yeah our brain has a way to make us get used to anything, that's why Upgraditis is a sickness all of us catch after all. 
It's the reason I keep a collection, can't get bored when you have tons to play around with. 
It's also why I don't think there will ever be an end all be all headphone for everyone, unless it's something on entry lvl price so people can get it early in their hobby and have a biased, fond memory of it, like the HD600-650. First loves are timeless.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Aug 20, 2022)

Sp12er3 said:


> Found these being sold for nearly 10x of a used TA-ZH1ES... Is it worth the upgrade from it? I'm eyeing one right now, and they can be found for around 900 usd locally.
> 
> Same, I have heard sound differences cable change make before, it's just for me they are minor enough to be negligible. Everyone I know do recommend changing the cable on the Z1R tho. I'm just too lazy to do it, maybe after mine broke first I'd do it.
> At least unlike the IEM Kimber, I don't think anyone is making a fake Kimber Kable for the MDR (Z7/Z1R) model, and that one can be found relativy affordably
> Edit: sorry misinformation, can't find em THAT low.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-wm1z-wm1a.815841/page-265#post-12990973

I think it was assumed off-cuts were being used to make them. Perhaps they were sold like the fake iem Kimber 'without packaging'.
There is a guide to the differences between the fake and genuine iem Kimber which might apply for the Z7/Z1R cable too.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-wm1z-wm1a.815841/page-2989


----------



## Kiats (Sep 3, 2022)

Just gotta love how the HD800S sounds with the DMP.


----------



## Kiats

Picked up the ES-R10 from ESLabs HK. Their replica of the MDR-R10. Giving it a run out with the Sony sources. Trying with the DMP as well.


----------



## Rob49 (Sep 5, 2022)

Kiats said:


> Just gotta love how the HD800S sounds with the DMP.



I think these have been mentioned by a few owners, which tends to be a good indication……I think @Whitigir is one of those ??…..and @purk ??


----------



## Rob49 (Sep 7, 2022)

As some of you will know, I had my first player replaced, due to the fact it was no longer charging, this was just under 6 months of usage. ( 1.200 + hours audio played. )
Nearly 7 months of usage with my replacement unit ( 915 hours played. ) Two days ago, while staying at my partner’s home, my player wasn’t charging, you can imagine the immediate anxiety. I left it awhile, let it automatically shut down & moved it to another room. Not expecting the charge light to come on, when plugging in, but thankfully it did. I was returning home the next day (Yesterday ) & decided not to use my player, till I got home.
As soon as I got back yesterday, I tried my player, charge light came on & I listened for the rest of the day.
Most nights, I listen in bed, so dully unplugged my player & upon plugging back in, no switching message came on, or the charging light. I thought, “Oh no, it’s developed the same fault” ( & no longer under warranty. )
After awhile, I was aware that the battery life was decreasing, obviously & decided to go & plug it back in my lounge, after letting it automatically shut down, which typically takes no more than 20 minutes. Well I plugged it in & to my surprise the charge light came on & charge & power symbol were showing. ( Oddly, it was immediately showing 99%, when it had dropped to 94%, when it switched off - so that’s not right ? )
Anyway, it was already gone past midnight then, but I decided to listen till it charged fully, to turn green. Gone 2am it did. I decided not to unplug my player. I still haven’t. I’m too fearful to do that. I guess at some point, I’ll have to ?
I’m wondering if not letting the power shut down, before switching from AC to battery & vice versa is causing this problem ?? Parts failed & needed to be replaced, first time & couldn’t be replaced, ( or it was too much hassle ! ? ) so they sent a new player.
I’m dreading that I’ve got the same fault for a second time ?? To happen once, is unlucky, to happen twice, suggests something other ? Will leaving my player constantly plugged in cause other problems ??
I honestly can’t recall any of my Sony equipment becoming faulty, it would be the most expensive purchase I’ve ever made, to be a problem. ( & the player I love more than anything I own. )


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> As some of you will know, I had my first player replaced, due to the fact it was no longer charging, this was just under 6 months of usage. ( 1.200 + hours audio played. )
> Nearly 7 months of usage with my replacement unit ( 915 hours played. ) Two days ago, while staying at my partner’s home, my player wasn’t charging, you can imagine the immediate anxiety. I left it awhile, let it automatically shut down & moved it to another room. Not expecting the charge light to come on, when plugging in, but thankfully it did. I was returning home the next day (Yesterday ) & decided not to use my player, till I got home.
> As soon as I got back yesterday, I tried my player, charge light came on & I listened for the rest of the day.
> Most nights, I listen in bed, so dully unplugged my player & upon plugging back in, no switching message came on, or the charging light. I thought, “Oh no, it’s developed the same fault” ( & no longer under warranty. )
> ...


I hope is just a battery discharge measure by the DAP?  Personally i use my DMP in battery once a month. Mu uniy has yet 1460 hours


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I hope is just a battery discharge measure by the DAP?  Personally i use my DMP in battery once a month. Mu uniy has yet 1460 hours



You can imagine my concern, given it indicates the same as before. I’ve still got it plugged in presently. When I was at my partner’s, I was distracted talking, as I was plugging back in, to recharge & was switching the electric socket switch on & off, so unless that caused a problem, but that wouldn’t explain last night, other than not shutting it down & of course, nowhere does it say to shutdown before switching. When I’m at my partner’s I tend to use the battery more due to the logistics of electrical socket positions ( & my physical disability. )


----------



## Rob49

Well, I decided to unplug my player & move to the bedroom & held my breath, as I plugged it back in. It came on, listened for awhile & let it shutdown, automatically, as I always do & unplugged it.
Got up this morning & moved my player back into the lounge. ( You guessed it - not a peep from the charge light. ) I tried several times, no luck & thought, it’s had it, like before.
I’d got myself prepared to ring Sony Central U.K. & thought, I’ll plug it back in the bedroom. To my surprise it came on. Then I had the dilemma of unplugging & moving it again, back to my lounge. Decided to & thankfully it came on. Now, I’m too fearful to unplug it again.
I haven’t seen anyone posting with this fault on their player ? As I said, one time is unlucky, potentially, two times, possibly suggests a fault within mains power & battery, but as I said, I’ve not been aware of anyone else having this problem ??
If it does eventually / completely go, then of course I’ll have no choice to contact Sony. I hope ( presently ) keeping it plugged in, doesn’t cause another problem ? ( Other than an increased electric bill, in this day & age of crazy energy prices.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Well, I decided to unplug my player & move to the bedroom & held my breath, as I plugged it back in. It came on, listened for awhile & let it shutdown, automatically, as I always do & unplugged it.
> Got up this morning & moved my player back into the lounge. ( You guessed it - not a peep from the charge light. ) I tried several times, no luck & thought, it’s had it, like before.
> I’d got myself prepared to ring Sony Central U.K. & thought, I’ll plug it back in the bedroom. To my surprise it came on. Then I had the dilemma of unplugging & moving it again, back to my lounge. Decided to & thankfully it came on. Now, I’m too fearful to unplug it again.
> I haven’t seen anyone posting with this fault on their player ? As I said, one time is unlucky, potentially, two times, possibly suggests a fault within mains power & battery, but as I said, I’ve not been aware of anyone else having this problem ??
> If it does eventually / completely go, then of course I’ll have no choice to contact Sony. I hope ( presently ) keeping it plugged in, doesn’t cause another problem ? ( Other than an increased electric bill, in this day & age of crazy energy prices.


Are you sure it is not an electricql problem in your house (lounge socket).

Why you eont fully discharge the battery and fully charge it ininterrupted to calibrate the charging circuit cuit?


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Are you sure it is not an electricql problem in your house (lounge socket).
> 
> Why you eont fully discharge the battery and fully charge it ininterrupted to calibrate the charging circuit cuit?



This initially happened at my partner’s home, last week, so unless we’ve both got electrical issues ?? I’m not dismissing that though.

It has been fully discharged recently, while I was at my partner’s home. The issue, is as I have explained, the charging light was not coming on at all, on two occasions & since it coming back on yesterday, I am too reluctant to unplug it, so it’s been left on, overnight & throughout the day.

I’d rather do this presently, because the anxiety of the charge light not coming on is too great.

I appreciate your thoughts though & suggestions.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> Are you sure it is not an electricql problem in your house (lounge socket).
> 
> Why you eont fully discharge the battery and fully charge it ininterrupted to calibrate the charging circuit cuit?



One thing I have just noticed & actually, yesterday, but was unsure then, but my player is plugged into an extension track & other stuff is plugged in too. ( I know that’s not ideal, but it’s due to the logistics of my electrical sockets & my seated position, affected by my disability. )
I was just about to plug in my security light / lamp & I just touched the DMP plug & the sound went off. This happened yesterday, but was not sure what I had touched then ?? I’ve had to unplug my headphones, mute, to get the sound on. So I’m wondering if this is a power surge, being in the extension track ?
I have used an extension at my partner’s, but when it initially happened there, I wasn’t using the extension. Could this incident, also be due to that I have not unplugged it since yesterday ??


----------



## Rob49

I’ve kept my player on ( stand by. ) overnight, powered on & lost the last 13 hours of playback, which has happened before & on my first unit. ( & I always let my player shutdown automatically. )


----------



## Rob49 (Sep 13, 2022)

Just an update, for anyone interested. After leaving my player plugged in all the time, after getting the charge light on, I.e. mains power working, I decided to unplug in the last hour, the charge light didn’t come on. I went to another room, plugged in & it came on, so moved it one more into another room & it still came on, but moved it again & it won’t swith back to mains power, I.e. no charge light. I knew I shouldn’t have unplugged it, but you should be able to unplug & plug back in.
I’ll see if it comes back on at some point, but it’s exactly want went wrong the first time & I can’t believe that I could be so unlucky again, especially, when I’ve seen no other owner on here, having this issue.
It looks like I’m going to have to contact Sony again & the outcome of that conversation doesn’t look promising, based on that they said they couldn’t get the parts. I did ask what happens if this second player develops the same fault & she said we’d find a solution. Very despondent about this & financially, I can’t afford to lose the cost of this player. It’s the best sounding audio I’ve ever heard, but I’m beginning to regret the purchase now.

While it just comes to mind. @Whitigir if I recall correctly, you no longer use the power supply that came with the player ? Could you refresh my memory please, if this is so & if so, could you provide the info of what you purchased, please ?


----------



## Rob49 (Sep 13, 2022)

Well, a further, further, update…..

I’ve  emailed Sony & not had a reply as yet…..but….

as I lay here, downhearted, I thought, shall I just look on the internet for a 19.5v power supply. Had a brief look & then I thought have a got anything here ?

Checked an old laptop power supply, didn’t fit in the back of the DMP & then I thought, have I got a Sony product & suddenly thought of my Sony 4K TV in one of my bedrooms, which I don’t use, due to no TV aerial.

Unplugged it, didn’t even check the voltage, it fit into the back of my DMP & I plugged it in, not expecting anything & still hadn’t looked at the voltage & to my surprise, the charge light came on. I did then look at the power supply & it states 19.5v

It was on 99% charge at this point & I thought, “Will this actually charge my player & after sometime, the light went green, fully charged. I’ve unplugged it once & the switching display came on, to battery & plugged it back in again & it switched to AC power, with screen message displaying.

I don’t know if this is ok to continue to use & that it won’t cause any damage to my player, but right now, I’m feeling quite relieved.

It does ask the question, was this the problem with my first player, ( even though they said the parts that had failed. ) & if I had thought to try this power supply, if it would have worked ??

Obviously, I’m not going to mention to Sony, that I’m using another power supply unit & going to tell them that it’s presently charging, I think for now, just leave things as they are & see how it goes ? ( Unless, any of you have any concerns about using this power supply, long term ?? ) Without checking & I have posted it on here, the parts that were faulty, with my first player & to my knowledge the power supply was not mentioned ??

This is my Sony TV power supply unit.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Ugh. Issues like this make me wonder if the potential upfront cost is worth it. As well as the cost to replace parts of available when they go bad. This is a sad development. Still looking into this, but now thinking that the TA and the 1Z should just be my go to players for now. Hope other DMP owners are doing good


----------



## Rob49 (Sep 13, 2022)

Gamerlingual said:


> Ugh. Issues like this make me wonder if the potential upfront cost is worth it. As well as the cost to replace parts of available when they go bad. This is a sad development. Still looking into this, but now thinking that the TA and the 1Z should just be my go to players for now. Hope other DMP owners are doing good



I’ve followed this thread from early on, spent a long, long time, before I finally took the plunge to buy & I think I’ve only ever read about one fault, on here, from an owner, that purchased a used unit.

I can’t believe that I could be so unlucky, a second time, with the same problem. I don’t know if it was yourself, that posted that Sony keep parts for several years, even when a product is discontinued. Correct me if I’m wrong ?

If you’ve followed my events, Sony Central U.K. said they couldn’t get the parts. I suspect they didn’t want the hassle & thought it was easier to replace my unit.

Even when I was pleased to receive a new unit, I’ve felt uneasy from the moment I received it. Of all the things I’ve owned, I can’t even recall a fault with anything & to have faults with the most expensive product I’ve ever owned, is a stress I could do without. For any audio product, or any similar product, I will never risk spending this kind of financial outlay ever again.

( 2 players, in 13 months, suggests more than bad luck ! )


----------



## gerelmx1986

Now burning SE after 1500h on balanced


----------



## Gamerlingual (Sep 14, 2022)

Rob49 said:


> I’ve followed this thread from early on, spent a long, long time, before I finally took the plunge to buy & I think I’ve only ever read about one fault, on here, from an owner, that purchased a used unit.
> 
> I can’t believe that I could be so unlucky, a second time, with the same problem. I don’t know if it was yourself, that posted that Sony keep parts for several years, even when a product is discontinued. Correct me if I’m wrong ?
> 
> ...


Correct. They continue to service parts until 7 years after its year of discontinuation


----------



## pdL389 (Sep 13, 2022)

Rob49 said:


> Well, a further, further, update…..
> 
> I’ve  emailed Sony & not had a reply as yet…..but….
> 
> ...


I’d be careful as that charger is pushing 3x higher amperage (8.21A vs. 2.35A required)


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> I’ve followed this thread from early on, spent a long, long time, before I finally took the plunge to buy & I think I’ve only ever read about one fault, on here, from an owner, that purchased a used unit.
> 
> I can’t believe that I could be so unlucky, a second time, with the same problem. I don’t know if it was yourself, that posted that Sony keep parts for several years, even when a product is discontinued. Correct me if I’m wrong ?
> 
> ...


I have a sony vaio laptop (still working fine) and the charger is 19.5V/2.3A and charges my DMP as wel


----------



## MrWalkman

pdL389 said:


> I’d be careful as that charger is pushing 3x higher amperage (8.21A vs. 2.35A required)



A charger is never "pushing" current, it's the device which draws the current it needs from the charger, so it's ok if the charger is capable of more amperage.


----------



## Rob49

pdL389 said:


> I’d be careful as that charger is pushing 3x higher amperage (8.21A vs. 2.35A required)



I was expecting a reply like this…..


MrWalkman said:


> A charger is never "pushing" current, it's the device which draws the current it needs from the charger, so it's ok if the charger is capable of more amperage.



Then I’ve just seen your post. Would you say it’s safe then ??


----------



## MrWalkman

Rob49 said:


> Then I’ve just seen your post. Would you say it’s safe then ??



Yes, no worries about it.

As long as the voltage is right (19.5 V DC) then it's ok.


----------



## Rob49

MrWalkman said:


> Yes, no worries about it.
> 
> As long as the voltage is right (19.5 V DC) then it's ok.



Thank you for that reassurance. You may have read ( or not read ? ) in my posts, that i often use an extension, due to logistics. Could this cause a problem & could have it caused a problem with my first player ??
It does seem odd, that exactly the same thing has gone wrong. You replied to my post, with the first unit, showing the parts that have failed. I’ll have to check your post again, but I don’t think it indicated anything about the power supply unit ?

…..and much thanks, again.


----------



## MrWalkman

Rob49 said:


> Thank you for that reassurance. You may have read ( or not read ? ) in my posts, that i often use an extension, due to logistics. Could this cause a problem & could have it caused a problem with my first player ??
> It does seem odd, that exactly the same thing has gone wrong. You replied to my post, with the first unit, showing the parts that have failed. I’ll have to check your post again, but I don’t think it indicated anything about the power supply unit ?
> 
> …..and much thanks, again.



I honestly have no idea what could be happening in your case.

I also didn't see anything related to the power supply through the service manual.


----------



## Rob49

MrWalkman said:


> I honestly have no idea what could be happening in your case.
> 
> I also didn't see anything related to the power supply through the service manual.



Thanks for your further reply.

I’ve got plenty of other equipment plugged into extensions & never had a problem. ( It’s a bit awkward to change the logistics of my main listening area, so I think I’m just going to have to hope that isn’t causing the issue. )

The main thing is, I’ve found a solution, rather than have to return another player. ( Sony, haven’t replied to my e mail, as yet. )


----------



## gerelmx1986

Gamerlingual said:


> Correct. They continue to survive parts until 7 years after its year of discontinuation


Mine works fine after 10 months of first being used


----------



## Gamerlingual

gerelmx1986 said:


> Mine works fine after 10 months of first being used


That doesn’t fit into what I said that Sony continues to service parts 7 years AFTER the product is discontinued. The DMP hasn’t reached that, yet


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I have a sony vaio laptop (still working fine) and the charger is 19.5V/2.3A and charges my DMP as wel



I know you mentioned this, when my first player went wrong. I’ve just found another 19.5v power supply, that was given to me, but the connection won’t fit into the back of the DMP, so I’m lucky my Sony TV power supply does. What is the size of the connection tip for the DMP ? ( Just incase I have to ever buy a new power unit. ) The very brief look I had on Amazon had power supplies that came with several sized connection tips. ( I could see if I could get another power supply, the same, as I’m now using, but the TV is some years old now. No harm in contacting Sony to ask. )


----------



## Rob49

Well, it’s been two weeks today, since I used my TV power supply. Everything has been fine, unplugging it, moving it to other rooms. Unusually, didn’t use it at bedtime last night. Had moved it back into the lounge this morning, plugging it in, going about doing other things, came back to it & realised the charge light hadn’t come on. I’ve just plugged the TV supply, back into the TV & it’s working fine.
To me, this confirms it’s the same problem as the first unit, so it certainly looks like I’ve got to contact Sony back & return. ( They did contact me back & I just told them the charge light had come back on, rather than say I used another power supply. )
Previously, they said they couldn’t get the parts, so if it is the same problem, what are they going to say this time ?? I regret buying such an expensive purchase. I really do, it’s money I can’t afford to lose, after just 14 months & two players.


----------



## gerelmx1986

I have  98h burn in for SE and i dont note big changes. I could say SE sounds as good as 4.4 pn the DMP


----------



## The1Signature

gerelmx1986 said:


> I could say SE sounds as good as 4.4 pn the DMP


this is true for iems and larger headphones?


----------



## gerelmx1986

The1Signature said:


> this is true for iems and larger headphones?


At least for iems, muss probi ren ich I h vams


----------



## gerelmx1986

gerelmx1986 said:


> At least for iems, muss probi ren ich I h vams


Akso applies for MDR-Z1R


----------



## gerelmx1986

I have a question is the amplifier circuit same for bakanced and SE?  B cause SE sounds so good as BAL


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Back to Tokyo at last and feels awesome being able to bring the DMP and listen to everything again!  Finally got to try some of the justears!


----------



## Smousesme

Hi guys,

I've got a DMP-Z1 with the protective cover still on the volume knob and also the SD card slot is unused, still with the protective tape on. It's in as good as new condition with less than 5 hours use, 70 hours burn in. I'm UK based and considering selling. Hit me up if you're interested


----------



## gerelmx1986

I took mine for a trip to Hamburg i played like 7 SACD rips and three CD rips on the long regional train trip €battery kasted kije 9 hours in SE) i deactivated DSD-Remaster.
On wayback home this time on ICE train i used it for 3 hours witg 16/44.1 and DSD remaster ON. The battery only dropped to 91% also in SE


----------



## gerelmx1986

One year of owning the DMP-Z1, i love it, sounds amazing from both HP utputs.

Ao far  it has accumulated  1730 hours- 1500 balanced, 230 single ended.


----------



## gerelmx1986

O am wondering if burning the  single end makes really sense as i am not  hearing changes in sound.

Maybe @purk  or @Whitigir  can tell if the analog circuit is same for balanved and SE? I know the signal goes to a Ti amp and some gold n caps i see no other differing elements for balanced and SE inlike the walkman WM1A has different OSCON and sony FTcaps in Se/balanved


----------



## Whitigir

gerelmx1986 said:


> O am wondering if burning the  single end makes really sense as i am not  hearing changes in sound.
> 
> Maybe @purk  or @Whitigir  can tell if the analog circuit is same for balanved and SE? I know the signal goes to a Ti amp and some gold n caps i see no other differing elements for balanced and SE inlike the walkman WM1A has different OSCON and sony FTcaps in Se/balanved


Unlike Walkman, the Z1 on 3.5mm shares almost most of it components to the balanced out.  So, burning balanced out should have taken care of 3.5mm as well at the same time


----------



## Doug2507

Whitigir said:


> Whoever like my accent, the DMP Z1 here



Haha, I actually watched this a few weeks ago and for some reason didn't expect you to sound the way you do! 

Apologies for the regurgitated post, just catching up on the thread, DMP inbound this week.


----------



## Doug2507

Anyone know where you can get the clear protective film? Read it earlier on in the thread but my google search terms aren't finding anything...


----------



## gerelmx1986

Doug2507 said:


> Anyone know where you can get the clear protective film? Read it earlier on in the thread but my google search terms aren't finding anything...


I did not know there was a film for it. Maybe try one for an iPad pro?


----------



## Doug2507

gerelmx1986 said:


> I did not know there was a film for it. Maybe try one for an iPad pro?


If there's nothing available i'll give the guys on ebay a shout that do protectors for pretty much anything. Might be able to cut custom protectors for it.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Doug2507 said:


> If there's nothing available i'll give the guys on ebay a shout that do protectors for pretty much anything. Might be able to cut custom protectors for it.


Did a search on Ebay... nothing.

Dis tou got your DMP bew or used?


----------



## Doug2507

gerelmx1986 said:


> Did a search on Ebay... nothing.
> 
> Dis tou got your DMP bew or used?


Eh, kind of both! Bought the one from the classifieds, 70hrs burn in and 5hrs listening. So like new and only a month old. Lot of play time needed to get it bedded in!


----------



## masahito24@chart

Doug2507 said:


> If there's nothing available i'll give the guys on ebay a shout that do protectors for pretty much anything. Might be able to cut custom protectors for it.


I used an extra ZX507 tempered glass screen protector I had laying around, but it only covers the display section.


----------



## Doug2507 (Nov 14, 2022)

To anyone that uses an HDPlex 300w, is it a 6.5mm x 4.4mm plug that's required for the DMP? I've got Larry asking to confirm size of the DMP socket.

Edit: NVM, confirmed by stock adapter here


----------



## gerelmx1986




----------



## Doug2507

I'll be sending ProtectiveFilms photos / measurements of DMP with a view to getting protective film cut to suit. Would anyone else be interested in a set depending on the outcome?

And do you guys think it's worthwhile on the chassis side plates as well?


----------



## The1Signature

Doug2507 said:


> I'll be sending ProtectiveFilms photos / measurements of DMP with a view to getting protective film cut to suit. Would anyone else be interested in a set depending on the outcome?
> 
> And do you guys think it's worthwhile on the chassis side plates as well?


I do also recommend https://rotri.de/ for individualized dust covers with individualized cut outs for cables etc.


----------



## Doug2507

Cool. Got a Van Nuys D956 onto the way but want a little more to ensure a scratch free life.


----------



## gerelmx1986

9 hours battery life on 3.5mm using only DSEE


----------



## Doug2507 (Nov 16, 2022)

Well, the day has come, officially a DMP owner.

Only had minutes with it so far but the 1st 2 things that struck me were bass and stage. Quite impressive. Looking forward to putting many hours of listening pleasure on this in the coming months.





One thing I've noticed though, tagging seems to be a bit different from my other daps. When I've got multiple versions of an album it'll show the version in the album title, eg, DSOTM, 1983, CP35 etc as per my folder name. That doesn't show here. I'll double check in jriver but something I'll need to investigate.


----------



## bauce

Hey guys, has anyone upgraded the usb cable? A lot of my listening will be through the computer. I have the audio quest carbon on my Tazzy and love it.


----------



## Doug2507 (Nov 17, 2022)

Spent some time today comparing a fully broken in M2 to DMP which has now hit 100hrs. Suitably impressed on all accounts tbh. M2 as good as it is (IMO) may have a little DMP flavour in it but the gap definitely isn't small by any means. The stage is is something else, quite phenomenal and without a doubt the best i've ever experience in portable audio, by some margin. Everything from top to bottom sounds fuller, more texture, more air / space, more detail, longer decay. Really quite in awe of how this unit plays and salivating at going through my library once I've sorted a few tagging issues and removed any ISO's.

Sony recommends at least 200hrs and you guys seem to be up in the 900hr ballpark for fully broken in stamp of approval. Massive smiles already so getting a tingle in my bones for what may lie ahead.

For anyone who's mildy interested in a DMP, I can't highly recommend it enough, even if it's just a listen on demo. It takes me back to the eureka moment I had when I finally settled on my main rig years ago, truly worthy of end game status and I'll be stamping my portable audio journey with that status as well. If you've got a reasonably neutral / reference set TOTL of IEM's then you're off to a great synergy start straight away.

On the other hand, I think 3 things might rule this out for most people. 1 being price, 2 preference and 3, "transportablity". Price is relative. Some daps can cost more than you can pick one of these up for on the market (LP). Some of you spend mega bucks on multiple TOTL sets, multiple daps. DMP might do you a favour and trade you amazing sq for a reduced collection. Its absolutely bucket list material to even just hear it, even if you don't intend on buying. 2 being preference. Its definitely got the Sony house tuning / feel about it which not everyone will like. It's highly "musical" (I hate that term) but definitely has a little colour throughout it. I'm generally a neutral / "reference" guy but this really ticks a lot of boxes. Despite the colouration, it's still 100% TOTL and exactly what "reference" used to mean. 3, it ain't going in your pocket. There's a bit of weight to it but it's maybe not as big as you'd expect. If you like to listen to music in different rooms in your house, then DMP is ideal. So easy just to move rooms with it. If you want to jump on the tube, take a bus ride, maybe look elsewhere.

Also, some might find lack of connectivity an issue considering what current gear is capable of. I can assure you, its very unlikely that you'll want anything else connected to this apart from making use of LDAC for streaming.

Sony have absolutely smashed it out of the park with this legend and in hindsight I would've paid full retail on launch day and saved the hassle of box swapping until now. I'll call it right now, source end game.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Doug2507 said:


> Well, the day has come, officially a DMP owner.
> 
> Only had minutes with it so far but the 1st 2 things that struck me were bass and stage. Quite impressive. Looking forward to putting many hours of listening pleasure on this in the coming months.
> 
> ...



True must make sure that all your music folders are inside in main folder called Music

And the Tags I Use
Artist
Album
Title (track name)
Year
Track number
Tracktotal
Fenre
Composer
Disc
Discrotal
The album art embedded 
For DSD there is no disvtotal and no tracktotal. Instead under track tou must write so  track/total


----------



## Kiats

Doug2507 said:


> Spent some time today comparing a fully broken in M2 to DMP which has now hit 100hrs. Suitably impressed on all accounts tbh. M2 as good as it is (IMO) may have a little DMP flavour in it but the gap definitely isn't small by any means. The stage is is something else, quite phenomenal and without a doubt the best i've ever experience in portable audio, by some margin. Everything from top to bottom sounds fuller, more texture, more air / space, more detail, longer decay. Really quite in awe of how this unit plays and salivating at going through my library once I've sorted a few tagging issues and removed any ISO's.
> 
> Sony recommends at least 200hrs and you guys seem to be up in the 900hr ballpark for fully broken in stamp of approval. Massive smiles already so getting a tingle in my bones for what may lie ahead.
> 
> ...


Yeah, the BT connectivity is great! I also use the stock Sony cable to connect the DMP to my Melco NA1 which is Roon Ready and then I am able to play my Roon library (Including the onsite library I have).


----------



## bauce

do the top of the DMP is polished metal? Just got my used one and it has a couple micro scratches that Im not super worried about but does anyone think it can be buffed?


----------



## Doug2507

bauce said:


> do the top of the DMP is polished metal? Just got my used one and it has a couple micro scratches that Im not super worried about but does anyone think it can be buffed?


Pretty sure the top is an acrylic...


----------



## Doug2507 (Nov 19, 2022)

Nice chilled out morning with Jewel / FTS / DMP.... Sounding great even at a lowly 150hrs...






Is there any way to enable some sort of side scrolling when title text is wider than the screen seems to allow?

Edit: Found it, 3 dots on the side.


----------



## Doug2507

cat3600 said:


> Can someone pls tell me the DMP DC plug size I did a search but the thread is too long I know I saw it somewhere. I am trying to buy an external power supply and was looking HDPlex which is always sold out.
> 
> I am looking at https://ferrum.audio/hypsos/ which only come with a
> 5.5x2.5mm and a 5.5x2.1mm DC plug will it fit the DMP?
> ...


Did you end up getting an LPSU for yours?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Doug2507 said:


> Did you end up getting an LPSU for yours?


The included PSU is so good, i dont notice any sound degradation


----------



## gerelmx1986

bauce said:


> do the top of the DMP is polished metal? Just got my used one and it has a couple micro scratches that Im not super worried about but does anyone think it can be buffed?


Yhe top is some plastic. Bottom i wuep ct is glass


----------



## Doug2507

gerelmx1986 said:


> The included PSU is so good, i dont notice any sound degradation


Ah, so didn't try one? 

Between battery and Sony psu?


----------



## bauce

Doug2507 said:


> Pretty sure the top is an acrylic...





gerelmx1986 said:


> Yhe top is some plastic. Bottom i wuep ct is glass


Thanks guys


----------



## cat3600

bauce said:


> Thanks guys


The top is highly polished (lapped) metal for a mirror like finish, the designers for the DMP even state it in their interview, there is no plastic anywhere!


----------



## cat3600

Doug2507 said:


> Did you end up getting an LPSU for yours?


Not yet, I still don't know the correct plug size but that's not the main reason. I have blown through a lot of cash this year for my home audio which has been always my primary focus and hobby, headphones are secondary. 

I completely changed my entire home audio rig and got the following equipment and as you can imagine the wife is not happy lol!!
Mcintosh MC1.25KW
Mcintosh C1100
MSB Premier DAC
Aurender N10 Streamer


----------



## cat3600 (Nov 21, 2022)

bauce said:


> Hey guys, has anyone upgraded the usb cable? A lot of my listening will be through the computer. I have the audio quest carbon on my Tazzy and love it.


Hey bud I have the Audioquest Diamond and also a much cheaper Wireworld Chroma. BTW there is a huge difference in sound quality depending on the streamer one uses. I am using Aurender N10, fiio M17 and a Mac Mini M1 to stream to the Sony and my home audio DAC which is a MSB Premier and streamers make a huge difference in sound.

The Aurender N10 absolutely is superior to the other 2 and I tried Aurender N20 which is even better. It's absolutely crazy how much difference a streamer can make in sound quality no matter how expensive your DAC is, the streamer plays an equal part!


----------



## bauce

raypin said:


> Mm...I have not timed it but I’ve done several straight 6 hour listening sessions with some battery life to spare. It does recharge fast.
> 
> I reckon battery life is more than enough for a long-haul flight.


thats on balanced ? Think I’m going to return this used one I just got on Amazon as I listened for 1.5-2 hours max today and it was down to 50%.


----------



## Doug2507

bauce said:


> thats on balanced ? Think I’m going to return this used one I just got on Amazon as I listened for 1.5-2 hours max today and it was down to 50%.


I had a couple of hours playtime with mine last night on battery and it dropped 10%. It was so low I actually wondered if it was showing it correctly! (DSD Remaster on, low gain, balanced, playing DSD)


----------



## bauce

Doug2507 said:


> I had a couple of hours playtime with mine last night on battery and it dropped 10%. It was so low I actually wondered if it was showing it correctly! (DSD Remaster on, low gain, balanced, playing DSD)


That's what I like to hear!


----------



## gerelmx1986

bauce said:


> thats on balanced ? Think I’m going to return this used one I just got on Amazon as I listened for 1.5-2 hours max today and it was down to 50%.


On balanced ive got close to 8 hours with DSD and 24bit flac mix


----------



## gerelmx1986

cat3600 said:


> Not yet, I still don't know the correct plug size but that's not the main reason. I have blown through a lot of cash this year for my home audio which has been always my primary focus and hobby, headphones are secondary.
> 
> I completely changed my entire home audio rig and got the following equipment and as you can imagine the wife is not happy lol!!
> Mcintosh MC1.25KW
> ...


I have a 9 hear old sony vaio laptop and yhe charger fits and charges my DMP


----------



## Doug2507

Red Halo proving to be a little less niche than I thought, what a sound out of this pairing! Rock on!


----------



## SHAM CHUN YUEN (Nov 23, 2022)

Dear all, I'm new to the world of Sony DMP-Z1. I have some queries that may affect the life span of the batteries. May I know if it is possible to keep the unit plugging in, and choose the power supply by switching between AC/ batteries when in use? Would it shorten the life of batteries? Since I wonder if plugging in permanently on wall would over-charged the batteries, tks.


----------



## cat3600

gerelmx1986 said:


> I have a 9 hear old sony vaio laptop and yhe charger fits and charges my DMP


Thanks I found the plug size it was stated a few pages before


----------



## gerelmx1986

SHAM CHUN YUEN said:


> Dear all, I'm new to the world of Sony DMP-Z1. I have some queries that may affect the life span of the batteries. May I know if it is possible to keep the unit plugging in, and choose the power supply by switching between AC/ batteries when in use? Would it shorten the life of batteries? Since I wonder if plugging in permanently on wall would over-charged the batteries, tks.


I use my unit in battery once a month and overcharging is not a problem anymotr in modern debices


----------



## bauce

Can someone link me to a stock power supply replacement? I'd like to have one at work and one at home if they make them.


----------



## bauce

I grabbed the last new unit from Moon Audio yesterday and will return this used store demo since the battery was not so great anymore. Will be interesting to see the sound differences. Might keep the used on till I get the new.


----------



## gerelmx1986

After each use i inplig my init from AC


----------



## Doug2507 (Nov 23, 2022)

bauce said:


> Can someone link me to a stock power supply replacement? I'd like to have one at work and one at home if they make them.


Don't think you can get the exact same one but if you go into the DMP pdf spec sheet available on Sony website, it gives you the serial number of the PSU. Good it and its just a cheap-is laptop charger. Readily available.

Edit, still got the screen shot..





And as for battery, I've got mine on loop with a burn in track with AC plugged in but not selected battery preferred so it won't be using any battery during burn in. Been unplugging / listening a couple of hours a night for the past few nights but away with work for 2-3 weeks and left it plugged in on loop. When I get back I'll probably drain battery to 20% then cycle it 20-80% a half dozen times then start using it in earnest. Fully plan to pair it with either a DIY LPSU with protection or just get an HDPlex 300w and run it off that unless I'm moving room.


----------



## bauce

Doug2507 said:


> Don't think you can get the exact same one but if you go into the DMP pdf spec sheet available on Sony website, it gives you the serial number of the PSU. Good it and its just a cheap-is laptop charger. Readily available.
> 
> Edit, still got the screen shot..
> 
> ...


have you been able to find an HDPlex?


----------



## Doug2507

bauce said:


> have you been able to find an HDPlex?


Gave them a shout by email to confirm suitability with DMP and was told they can ship one from Germany even though it shows out of stock.


----------



## masahito24@chart

Doug2507 said:


> Gave them a shout by email to confirm suitability with DMP and was told they can ship one from Germany even though it shows out of stock.


Im still running a HDPlex 300W, it powers the DMP and a PC for Roon streaming. It's also great for other devices you may have since there are 2 variable outputs, 12v output, and 19v for the DMP.


----------



## Doug2507

masahito24@chart said:


> Im still running a HDPlex 300W, it powers the DMP and a PC for Roon streaming. It's also great for other devices you may have since there are 2 variable outputs, 12v output, and 19v for the DMP.


Did you find it brought any benefit over battery?


----------



## bauce

Doug2507 said:


> Gave them a shout by email to confirm suitability with DMP and was told they can ship one from Germany even though it shows out of stock.


Nice. Is it around $700?


----------



## masahito24@chart

Doug2507 said:


> Did you find it brought any benefit over battery?


I noticed that it helps running off the HDPlex mainly for headphones, but I since it's permanently sitting on my desk its rarely used on battery.


----------



## Doug2507

bauce said:


> Nice. Is it around $700?


Yeah, iirc 695 shipped to UK which seems pretty decent.


----------



## Doug2507

masahito24@chart said:


> I noticed that it helps running off the HDPlex mainly for headphones, but I since it's permanently sitting on my desk its rarely used on battery.


Ah, OK, cool. Does that imply high gain also then?


----------



## SHAM CHUN YUEN (Nov 23, 2022)

gerelmx1986 said:


> I use my unit in battery once a month and overcharging is not a problem anymotr in modern debices


I see. But I would anyway using it with battery all the time, either from the internal from the unit or my external stromtank battery power depending on whether it was used outdoors. That means, I plugged in together with the stock switching one into my stromtank to have the pure power.
Thinking if needed to remove the dc plug or not when not in use.


----------



## SHAM CHUN YUEN

However, I could also use this one when I listen to it all the way at my home. It provides battery power which generates pure sine wave too! Sounds really good!


----------



## masahito24@chart

Doug2507 said:


> Ah, OK, cool. Does that imply high gain also then?


Yup, subtle but i get a smidge better dynamics.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Doug2507 said:


> Ah, OK, cool. Does that imply high gain also then?


My DMP is CEW and has high gain


----------



## pdL389

gerelmx1986 said:


> My DMP is CEW and has high gain


I stay away from high gain, DSD Remastering and AC.  To my ears, the sound is not as clean as it is from the Direct Source (and) using Battery.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Ueing my koss otta pros


----------



## Doug2507

pdL389 said:


> I stay away from high gain, DSD Remastering and AC.  To my ears, the sound is not as clean as it is from the Direct Source (and) using Battery.


Pretty much the same for me with IEMs. Might be different when MDR arrive but they're so easy to drive I'm guessing they'll stay on low gain.


----------



## pdL389

Doug2507 said:


> Pretty much the same for me with IEMs. Might be different when MDR arrive but they're so easy to drive I'm guessing they'll stay on low gain.


I owned MDRs twice, both times sold as I didn’t find Sony MDR-Z1R to be a good pairing with DMP, mainly because of bloated bass, no matter what cable I tried.  I think DMP pairs better with Audeze LCD-4z and Meze Elite.


----------



## Doug2507

pdL389 said:


> I owned MDRs twice, both times sold as I didn’t find Sony MDR-Z1R to be a good pairing with DMP, mainly because of bloated bass, no matter what cable I tried.  I think DMP pairs better with Audeze LCD-4z and Meze Elite.


4z are definitely on my radar but I'll see how I get on with MDR, got M2 I can pair with them as well. I know they seem to be a very marmite set so hoping they work in my favour! Really want to keep it closed back if I can.


----------



## bauce

gerelmx1986 said:


> My audio played counter is fone. Currently 23 hours 33 minutes


woah, how do I look at how much music time there has been? very interested knowing on this used unit.


----------



## Doug2507

bauce said:


> woah, how do I look at how much music time there has been? very interested knowing on this used unit.


Settings, bottom row (unit info?), it's at the bottom. Not at home right now so can't go check but pretty sure it's something like that. 

If it's been factory reset then it'll wipe to zero. Shame, would be good if it was permanent. I bought my M2 used and an early serial number but no idea if its done 10hrs or 1000hrs.


----------



## bmichels

I sold my house to live on a boat permanently. A new life style... and a no-no for my BIG set-up (Aurender, BHSE, STAX...), so I need the BEST sound quality in a transportable package. 
-> I wonder if the DMP-Z1 is still the best or is there something better now or or to come anounced ?  Any successor to the DMP-Z1 ?


----------



## Doug2507

bmichels said:


> I sold my house to live on a boat permanently. A new life style... and a no-no for my BIG set-up (Aurender, BHSE, STAX...), so I need the BEST sound quality in a transportable package.
> -> I wonder if the DMP-Z1 is still the best or is there something better now or or to come anounced ?  Any successor to the DMP-Z1 ?


There's usually always something "bigger and better" around the corner but for me, DMP SQ is of such high quality i'd put it into the realms of old Krell amp status etc so really not bothered about what follows. The only thing that would make me jump ship from it is if Sony came out with a Z2 and somehow improved on what Z1 already does. I've not read any mention of a Z2 on the cards but Sony don't exactly shout from the rooftops when somethings in development. I guess a smart thing to do would be check out all their currently filed patents....(?)


----------



## bmichels

A new DMP-Z2 ( iPad App, Big screen, WifiStreaming, and... improved Sound quality) will indeed be the best news of the year...


----------



## pdL389

bmichels said:


> A new DMP-Z2 ( iPad App, Big screen, WifiStreaming, and... improved Sound quality) will indeed be the best news of the year...


or DMP-Z1*M2*


----------



## Doug2507

bmichels said:


> A new DMP-Z2 ( iPad App, Big screen, WifiStreaming, and... improved Sound quality) will indeed be the best news of the year...


Never gonna happen....


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> A new DMP-Z2 ( iPad App, Big screen, WifiStreaming, and... improved Sound quality) will indeed be the best news of the year...


The best news would be to be able to afford one, otherwise it is bad


----------



## Kiats

Whitigir said:


> The best news would be to be able to afford one, otherwise it is bad


Looking at the pricing of the Sony 1AM2 and 1ZM2, I suspect we need not worry too much about that. The bigger question is whether Sony has any impetus to develop a M2 of the DMP…


----------



## bauce

Doug2507 said:


> Settings, bottom row (unit info?), it's at the bottom. Not at home right now so can't go check but pretty sure it's something like that.
> 
> If it's been factory reset then it'll wipe to zero. Shame, would be good if it was permanent. I bought my M2 used and an early serial number but no idea if its done 10hrs or 1000hrs.


damn, looks to be reset. I wish I could see how many hours were put on it to degrade the battery to this point. Oh well, the new one should be here in a couple days.


----------



## Whitigir

Doug2507 said:


> There's usually always something "bigger and better" around the corner but for me, DMP SQ is of such high quality i'd put it into the realms of old Krell amp status etc so really not bothered about what follows. The only thing that would make me jump ship from it is if Sony came out with a Z2 and somehow improved on what Z1 already does. I've not read any mention of a Z2 on the cards but Sony don't exactly shout from the rooftops when somethings in development. I guess a smart thing to do would be check out all their currently filed patents....(?)


Exactly what you just said.  If you continue to wait, then it would always be superseded, just a matter of time.  I know Sony announced “Signature series M2”, so the DMP-Z1 will be a part of it, but likely to be at the end of the chain.  That means Sony still have to release Headphone, headphones amp, and then come DMP M2.  Seeing how nothing can be done atm on the side of “productions” and “zero Covid from China”, Sony will have to pull another card, and by that, it is going to take another year to the least to be releasing any other signature pieces.  Then I would take another 2 years to the least for the DMP M2.


----------



## gerelmx1986

@Doug2507  yes the playback counter is at unit info. Above the BT address


----------



## gerelmx1986

bauce said:


> damn, looks to be reset. I wish I could see how many hours were put on it to degrade the battery to this point. Oh well, the new one should be here in a couple days.


Yes you can reset it eit a gactory reset


----------



## gerelmx1986

bmichels said:


> A new DMP-Z2 ( iPad App, Big screen, WifiStreaming, and... improved Sound quality) will indeed be the best news of the year...


DMP is the best in sound quality... you don't need streaming, in fact youre going to hate your sekf if you dekeged your  local files  when the war come (you know  putin is crazy and the risk is high)


----------



## gerelmx1986

Doug2507 said:


> Never gonna happen....


Yup DMP is the special sony  product like the qualia etc a homage to the original walkman


----------



## Doug2507

gerelmx1986 said:


> DMP is the best in sound quality... you don't need streaming, in fact youre going to hate your sekf if you dekeged your  local files  when the war come (you know  putin is crazy and the risk is high)


Haha, I'm actually quite looking forward to trying some streaming with LDAC and seeing how it compares to M2 with DSEE on.


----------



## bmichels

Pure intox: DMP-Z1M2


----------



## bauce

I got my brand new DMP today. What's wild is that the serial is 4 digits away from the used one I picked up on Amazon.


----------



## Doug2507

Iirc the one I have is 10xx. Wonder how many they made...


----------



## bauce

Doug2507 said:


> Iirc the one I have is 10xx. Wonder how many they made...


seems around 1,000? mine is 98x


----------



## bauce




----------



## Doug2507

bauce said:


>



Nice, should be listening to the same setup end of next week! How you liking the Lavri vs stock?


----------



## bauce

Doug2507 said:


> Nice, should be listening to the same setup end of next week! How you liking the Lavri vs stock?


Sweet! I honestly don't hear much difference but I bought them for the longer cable. The ear hooks are more comfortable for me as well.


----------



## Blueoris

bmichels said:


> I sold my house to live on a boat permanently. A new life style... and a no-no for my BIG set-up (Aurender, BHSE, STAX...), so I need the BEST sound quality in a transportable package.
> -> I wonder if the DMP-Z1 is still the best or is there something better now or or to come anounced ?  Any successor to the DMP-Z1 ?


Nice.
In a boat I would appreciate something pocketable. Have you checked the HiBy RS8, based on a R2R chip? There is also the new AK sp3000, with a more conventional DAC ship.


----------



## Vamp898

bmichels said:


> I sold my house to live on a boat permanently. A new life style... and a no-no for my BIG set-up (Aurender, BHSE, STAX...), so I need the BEST sound quality in a transportable package.
> -> I wonder if the DMP-Z1 is still the best or is there something better now or or to come anounced ?  Any successor to the DMP-Z1 ?


According to Sony itself, the highest sound quality in an portable package is the WM1 M2 Series, but they are limited in output power.

If you need something like the WM1-Series but with higher output power, there is only the DMP-Z1

There are of course the products from the competition like the Shanling M30 and also FiiO announced something that pretty much is an portable Desktop Amp.

But they will have a different sound, that is for sure.


----------



## pdL389

And let’s also add, if one wants the best sound quality in transportable version, then DMP-Z1 is your choice.  Speaking from personal experience owning both WM1ZM2 and DMP-Z1, the latter sounds above the WM1 series in every expect of music reproduction.


----------



## Blueoris

pdL389 said:


> And let’s also add, if one wants the best sound quality in transportable version, then DMP-Z1 is your choice.  Speaking from personal experience owning both WM1ZM2 and DMP-Z1, the latter sounds above the WM1 series in every expect of music reproduction.


I see you also own a AK Sp3000. Can you give us a quick comparison of sound quality between Sp3000 and DMP-Z1? Do you feel the SP3000 have a "blacker background" (or less noise floor) than DMP-Z1?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Blueoris said:


> I see you also own a AK Sp3000. Can you give us a quick comparison of sound quality between Sp3000 and DMP-Z1? Do you feel the SP3000 have a "blacker background" (or less noise floor) than DMP-Z1?


I dont think a DAP can surpass a desktop1desktop-replacement unit like the DMP-Z1


----------



## Doug2507

Blueoris said:


> I see you also own a AK Sp3000. Can you give us a quick comparison of sound quality between Sp3000 and DMP-Z1? Do you feel the SP3000 have a "blacker background" (or less noise floor) than DMP-Z1?


Interested to hear the answer to this. DMP has lower noise floor than N8ii to my ears.


----------



## pdL389

Blueoris said:


> I see you also own a AK Sp3000. Can you give us a quick comparison of sound quality between Sp3000 and DMP-Z1? Do you feel the SP3000 have a "blacker background" (or less noise floor) than DMP-Z1?


DMP is a very unique player. What strikes you immediately after listening to the first notes is the extraordinary silence that just plunges you into another space. You subconsciously switch to different passages and follow their development with every musical piece played. This is just to picture that you effortlessly pick any element or passage (and get a wow). The bass has a special character, it is super detailed and musical at the same time. It's hard to explain it …just have to hear it.  It has such a quality that it is like being pulled out of the bowels of the earth (sub-bass).  It has timber (color), length and punch, but everything in moderation without breaking the harmony of a musical piece or going out of bounds. IMHO, no DAP can compete in this territory with DMP (one may ask: how about WM1ZM2?- no!). Does SP3000 have these characteristics? Yes - some, but not all of them in one package, and most importantly, even having these qualities, they are not refined on Astell&Kern SP3000 or Sony WM1ZM2 to the level of DMP. Again, the level of refinements: the quality of “black background”, the thickness of notes in ALL ranges, the balance between warm sound signature and being able to pull micro details and also implementation of a full analog amplifier to maintain audio signal purity even at low volumes, make DMP unique and addictive.  There is one disclosure to note, you can get this all only after burning in at least 1250 hrs. Trust my experience!  I had buyer’s remorse not just once during this journey. Many of those who got rid of DMP, believed it wasn’t a worthy audiophile investment as they didn’t burn it to sound optimally.


----------



## Doug2507

Totally agree with this, it's warm but the detail vs any DAP I have or had is on another level, same with stage, and control (1.5w probably helps!). Had 4497 a few times before and you can tell its in there but everything on top in if just takes thing to true TOTL level. I'm not particularly a warm leaning guy but DMP is just superb IMO.

(and that's on 200hrs, by the time I get home from work this coming Friday it should be nearer 800 so really looking forward to hearing it again!)


----------



## bmichels

pdL389 said:


> DMP is a very unique player. What strikes you immediately after listening to the first notes is the extraordinary silence that just plunges you into another space. You subconsciously switch to different passages and follow their development with every musical piece played. This is just to picture that you effortlessly pick any element or passage (and get a wow). The bass has a special character, it is super detailed and musical at the same time. It's hard to explain it …just have to hear it.  It has such a quality that it is like being pulled out of the bowels of the earth (sub-bass).  It has timber (color), length and punch, but everything in moderation without breaking the harmony of a musical piece or going out of bounds. IMHO, no DAP can compete in this territory with DMP (one may ask: how about WM1ZM2?- no!). Does SP3000 have these characteristics? Yes - some, but not all of them in one package, and most importantly, even having these qualities, they are not refined on Astell&Kern SP3000 or Sony WM1ZM2 to the level of DMP. Again, the level of refinements: the quality of “black background”, the thickness of notes in ALL ranges, the balance between warm sound signature and being able to pull micro details and also implementation of a full analog amplifier to maintain audio signal purity even at low volumes, make DMP unique and addictive.  There is one disclosure to note, you can get this all only after burning in at least 1250 hrs. Trust my experience!  I had buyer’s remorse not just once during this journey. Many of those who got rid of DMP, believed it wasn’t a worthy audiophile investment as they didn’t burn it to sound optimally.


thanks for this very interesting report.   What headphone/IEM do you use with the DMP to get this ourstanding sound ?


----------



## pdL389

bmichels said:


> thanks for this very interesting report.   What headphone/IEM do you use with the DMP to get this ourstanding sound ?


Currently, Sony IER-Z1R, which in my opinion, was tuned by Sony engineers to reflect their sound house signature the most. IERs really shine on DMP. I also very much enjoy Campfire Trifecta, a new addition to my IEM collection. Trifecta sounds phenomenal with DMP (better than IER-Z1R).  As to the HP, I find LCD-4z with the stock cable to be an awesome pairing.


----------



## Doug2507

pdL389 said:


> Currently, Sony IER-Z1R, which in my opinion, was tuned by Sony engineers to reflect their sound house signature the most. IERs really shine on DMP. I also very much enjoy Campfire Trifecta, a new addition to my IEM collection. Trifecta sounds phenomenal with DMP (better than IER-Z1R).  As to the HP, I find LCD-4z with the stock cable to be an awesome pairing.


Is your rating of trifecta based upon a specific genre?


----------



## pdL389

Doug2507 said:


> Is your rating of trifecta based upon a specific genre?


I mostly listen to vocals, jazz and classical.


----------



## bmichels

pdL389 said:


> Currently, Sony IER-Z1R, which in my opinion, was tuned by Sony engineers to reflect their sound house signature the most. IERs really shine on DMP. I also very much enjoy Campfire Trifecta, a new addition to my IEM collection. Trifecta sounds phenomenal with DMP (better than IER-Z1R).  As to the HP, I find LCD-4z with the stock cable to be an awesome pairing.


thanks for those infos.  I will look more to the Campfire Trifecta


----------



## Blueoris

pdL389 said:


> DMP is a very unique player. What strikes you immediately after listening to the first notes is the extraordinary silence that just plunges you into another space. You subconsciously switch to different passages and follow their development with every musical piece played. This is just to picture that you effortlessly pick any element or passage (and get a wow). The bass has a special character, it is super detailed and musical at the same time. It's hard to explain it …just have to hear it.  It has such a quality that it is like being pulled out of the bowels of the earth (sub-bass).  It has timber (color), length and punch, but everything in moderation without breaking the harmony of a musical piece or going out of bounds. IMHO, no DAP can compete in this territory with DMP (one may ask: how about WM1ZM2?- no!). Does SP3000 have these characteristics? Yes - some, but not all of them in one package, and most importantly, even having these qualities, they are not refined on Astell&Kern SP3000 or Sony WM1ZM2 to the level of DMP. Again, the level of refinements: the quality of “black background”, the thickness of notes in ALL ranges, the balance between warm sound signature and being able to pull micro details and also implementation of a full analog amplifier to maintain audio signal purity even at low volumes, make DMP unique and addictive.  There is one disclosure to note, you can get this all only after burning in at least 1250 hrs. Trust my experience!  I had buyer’s remorse not just once during this journey. Many of those who got rid of DMP, believed it wasn’t a worthy audiophile investment as they didn’t burn it to sound optimally.


Very nice, thank you for taking the time to describe DMP characteristics.


----------



## gerelmx1986




----------



## Rob49

I haven’t been on for awhile, but just posting now, to say my second player has been collected for repair. It went what appears, permanently faulty, back in September. ( A different power supply, lasted two weeks. ) I should have contacted Sony before now, but was put off by the stress of being told they couldn’t get the parts. ( Which I don’t believe. )

Two players, lasting 6 & 7 months, respectively & now I don’t know if it’s going to be fixed & if so, the cost financially to myself ? I’ve stressed I want it fixed. ( It’s the same fault - not charging, no green light. ) No one else, from what I can see on this thread, has reported the same fault, let alone twice ! )

All I can do is wait & see what happens ? I’ll update when I know more.


----------



## Doug2507

Rob49 said:


> I haven’t been on for awhile, but just posting now, to say my second player has been collected for repair. It went what appears, permanently faulty, back in September. ( A different power supply, lasted two weeks. ) I should have contacted Sony before now, but was put off by the stress of being told they couldn’t get the parts. ( Which I don’t believe. )
> 
> Two players, lasting 6 & 7 months, respectively & now I don’t know if it’s going to be fixed & if so, the cost financially to myself ? I’ve stressed I want it fixed. ( It’s the same fault - not charging, no green light. ) No one else, from what I can see on this thread, has reported the same fault, let alone twice ! )
> 
> All I can do is wait & see what happens ? I’ll update when I know more.


Hoping for the best Rob, does sound quite unusual. Not alone though, there's a guy in the Hiby RS8 thread who's had two units die on him.

Hopefully they can give you an explanation of what's failed!

For anyone who's wandering, Sony extended 5 year guarantee is cheap as chips, iirc I was £45. Well worth it for peace of mind if you can get it.


----------



## Rob49

Doug2507 said:


> Hoping for the best Rob, does sound quite unusual. Not alone though, there's a guy in the Hiby RS8 thread who's had two units die on him.
> 
> Hopefully they can give you an explanation of what's failed!
> 
> For anyone who's wandering, Sony extended 5 year guarantee is cheap as chips, iirc I was £45. Well worth it for peace of mind if you can get it.



Thank you, Doug.

It never crossed my mind about an extended warranty, or actually knew you could & the contacts at Sony never suggested, or mentioned that.

I have asked if the engineers can give any indication as to why this has happened, twice, in the same time period, whether they will have any idea, who knows ??

They had said previously, the parts that have failed, which i ( & @MrWalkman ) had posted on here.

I know how the Hiby RS8 guy feels. As I’ve posted many times, the DMP-Z1 is without doubt the best audio device I’ve ever heard. It’s unique & I’m missing that sound so much & just hope I’m able to again, for a long time to come & not just for 6 / 7 months.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Thank you, Doug.
> 
> It never crossed my mind about an extended warranty, or actually knew you could & the contacts at Sony never suggested, or mentioned that.
> 
> ...


Hope for the best. How mauvh did you used it on AC and on battery? Spinds weird that same problem t ice. Maybe something faulty in your flat/ house's electrical installation that is silently killing yout devices?


----------



## Doug2507 (Dec 6, 2022)

Just need to give any Sony dealer a shout. I bought mine used (few weeks old) and had to send through a photo of the serial number, original invoice and an email from the previous owner stating transfer of ownership!

 I'm not aware of any time frame limit imposed on getting it so if you're still within the original year I think you can still extend. If memory serves me right though, I think I read your 1st one failed just outside of warranty?

And agreed, it sounds phenomenal. I've been away with work so I'll get back to it having been sat at around 200hrs when I left to 700+ when I get back. Counting the days!


----------



## gerelmx1986

Doug2507 said:


> Just need to give any Sony dealer a shout. I bought mine used (few weeks old) and had to send through a photo of the serial number, original invoice and an email from the previous owner stating transfer of ownership!
> 
> I'm not aware of any time frame limit imposed on getting it so if you're still within the original year I think you can still extend. If memory serves me right though, I think I read your 1st one failed just outside of warranty?
> 
> And agreed, it sounds phenomenal. I've been away with work so I'll get back to it having been sat at around 200hrs when I left to 700+ when I get back. Counting the days!


Mine has EU requirement of 2Y warranty here in Germany until november 7 12023. I conaiser me lucky that mine been working fine for a year and one month of use (1874 houre lay rime counter)


----------



## Doug2507

gerelmx1986 said:


> Mine has EU requirement of 2Y warranty here in Germany until november 7 12023. I conaiser me lucky that mine been working fine for a year and one month of use (1874 houre lay rime counter)


Yeah, one of the many downsides of Brexit for us unfortunately! Even for yourself, the 5 year extended should be a no brainer considering how little it costs.


----------



## Rob49 (Dec 6, 2022)

gerelmx1986 said:


> Hope for the best. How mauvh did you used it on AC and on battery? Spinds weird that same problem t ice. Maybe something faulty in your flat/ house's electrical installation that is silently killing yout devices?



Thank you. To be quite honest, I used mains power as much as possible. I’m not saying I never used the battery, but I wouldn’t have described it as excessive, because probably like all owners, there’s a fear of needing the battery replaced.

Yes, we’ve had these questions about electrics in my home. Something doesn’t seem right, that I used a different AC power unit, that lasted two weeks & even before that, the supplied power unit had shown to be problematic, in the fact that the charge light came on, on one occasion, plugged in, in my bedroom, moved it to my lounge, ( plugged into an extension cable, due to the logistics of sockets & seating area. ) & no charge light, but I think it was just on the way out, at that point, like my original unit.

I can’t recall any problems, electrically with any other device in my home, so it feels completely baffling !


Doug2507 said:


> Just need to give any Sony dealer a shout. I bought mine used (few weeks old) and had to send through a photo of the serial number, original invoice and an email from the previous owner stating transfer of ownership!
> 
> I'm not aware of any time frame limit imposed on getting it so if you're still within the original year I think you can still extend. If memory serves me right though, I think I read your 1st one failed just outside of warranty?
> 
> And agreed, it sound phenomenal. I've been away with work so I'll get back to it having been sat at around 200hrs when I left to 700+ when I get back. Counting the days!



My original player lasted 6 months, it was replaced free of charge, due to the 12 month warranty. They said the replacement, only had the remaining time left on the warranty & it literally failed a month after the warranty expired.

I could ask Sony, if I could pay for an extended warranty, if they should fix it ? ( Or even mention it before that ? )

I clocked up just over 1200 hours in 6 months, with my first unit & just short of that figure, with my second unit, during 7 months, so basically, in just a year ( I was without a unit for a whole month. ) I clocked up nearly 2400 hours listening & that was total listening, no burn in hours. Just SO addictive, from the very first listen.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Thank you. To be quite honest, I used mains power as much as possible. I’m not saying I never used the battery, but I wouldn’t have described it as excessive, because probably like all owners, there’s a fear of needing the battery replaced.
> 
> Yes, we’ve had these questions about electrics in my home. Something doesn’t seem right, that I used a different AC power unit, that lasted two weeks & even before that, the supplied power unit had shown to be problematic, in the fact that the charge light came on, on one occasion, plugged in, in my bedroom, moved it to my lounge, ( plugged into an extension cable, due to the logistics of sockets & seating area. ) & no charge light, but I think it was just on the way out, at that point, like my original unit.
> 
> ...


I uae my DMP once a month in battery mode . And i always plug firet the Supplied PSU first to the outlet then onto DMP, and when disconnecting it. I inplug first from DMP aise, then from mains outlet, otherwise o leave always the PSU connected to mains and onlz disconnect from DMP-Z1 aft r each use before going to bed


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I uae my DMP once a month in battery mode . And i always plug firet the Supplied PSU first to the outlet then onto DMP, and when disconnecting it. I inplug first from DMP aise, then from mains outlet, otherwise o leave always the PSU connected to mains and onlz disconnect from DMP-Z1 aft r each use before going to bed



I connected & disconnected exactly the same way & I always let it automatically power down itself, which I’m sure you probably know is about 20 minutes.


----------



## pdL389

gerelmx1986 said:


> I uae my DMP once a month in battery mode . And i always plug firet the Supplied PSU first to the outlet then onto DMP, and when disconnecting it. I inplug first from DMP aise, then from mains outlet, otherwise o leave always the PSU connected to mains and onlz disconnect from DMP-Z1 aft r each use before going to bed


Just curious why not on battery. AC introduces noise…..


----------



## gerelmx1986

8.5 hours of vatterz time on 3.5mm  liw gain with DSD-aremaster on


----------



## gerelmx1986

7 Hours on 3.5mm Gigh gain, DIRECT DSD-RE OFF only 16bit flac  7


----------



## gerelmx1986

On 3.5mm ahigh gain with  DSD-RE ON got 6 hours and 20 minutes of battery play time


----------



## gsiu33

Doug2507 said:


> I had a couple of hours playtime with mine last night on battery and it dropped 10%. It was so low I actually wondered if it was showing it correctly! (DSD Remaster on, low gain, balanced, playing DSD)


The battery percentage indicator seems not linear. It only drops 10% with 2 hours of listening, but it drops more quickly after then.


----------



## Wikinaut

Is there a way to see what the source quality is when using the DMP-Z1 as a Bluetooth receiver (LDAC)? I use Qobuz and it doesn't indicate a loss in quality for 24/96 content, but the DMP doesn't show any details. Hence, I'm not sure what the actual quality is being played back.


----------



## Wikinaut

Wikinaut said:


> Is there a way to see what the source quality is when using the DMP-Z1 as a Bluetooth receiver (LDAC)? I use Qobuz and it doesn't indicate a loss in quality for 24/96 content, but the DMP doesn't show any details. Hence, I'm not sure what the actual quality is being played back.


Doing some googling seems to indicate that LDAC is no match for 24/96 content: https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/

Thoughts?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Last tewt of battery life on 3.5mm High gain with DsEE got 6.5 hours


----------



## Kiats

Wikinaut said:


> Doing some googling seems to indicate that LDAC is no match for 24/96 content: https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/
> 
> Thoughts?


Have a listen and see what you think.  That is the most important consideration.


----------



## gerelmx1986




----------



## Doug2507

Can't recommend this case enough for anyone that moves between rooms with their DMP. It's my 1st Van Nuys, super impressed with the build quality, and a relief considering the cost!

Fits the DMP like a glove, can have either / both ends open or closed, perfect for protecting it / keeping dust off, carry handle really convenient for carrying...

https://vannuys.co.jp/d956/


----------



## bauce

Doug2507 said:


> Can't recommend this case enough for anyone that moves between rooms with their DMP. It's my 1st Van Nuys, super impressed with the build quality, and a relief considering the cost!
> 
> Fits the DMP like a glove, can have either / both ends open or closed, perfect for protecting it / keeping dust off, carry handle really convenient for carrying...
> 
> https://vannuys.co.jp/d956/


Woah, this looks much better than the other one they make. I take mine to my office and back every day so something like this would be ideal. Where did you buy it?


----------



## Doug2507

bauce said:


> Woah, this looks much better than the other one they make. I take mine to my office and back every day so something like this would be ideal. Where did you buy it?


Agree, million times better than the bumper bag!

Had to import it from Van Nuys. If you use a forwarder like Tenso then i don't think you'll be stung on duty as much as we would in the UK.


----------



## bmichels (Dec 19, 2022)

*May be SONY has finaly a direct competitor with the Lotoo Mjolnir ?   *

It Runs on battery, but is also it offer expandability, line out, digital in/out and... streaming  .  

FYI Lotoo is also an OEM manufacturer for NAGRA, they built the NAGRA-LB for them ...

https://www.facebook.com/lotoopaw/photos/pcb.5722861684473441/5722737381152538
​


----------



## bauce

Doug2507 said:


> Just need to give any Sony dealer a shout. I bought mine used (few weeks old) and had to send through a photo of the serial number, original invoice and an email from the previous owner stating transfer of ownership!
> 
> I'm not aware of any time frame limit imposed on getting it so if you're still within the original year I think you can still extend. If memory serves me right though, I think I read your 1st one failed just outside of warranty?
> 
> And agreed, it sounds phenomenal. I've been away with work so I'll get back to it having been sat at around 200hrs when I left to 700+ when I get back. Counting the days!


Do you know where the warranty came from? Moon audio is sending me to a third party website called Clyde to do this. I was thinking you were talking about something directly from Sony?


----------



## Blueoris

bmichels said:


> *May be SONY has finaly a direct competitor with the Lotoo Mjolnir ?   *
> 
> It Runs on battery, but is also it offer expandability, line out, digital in/out and... streaming  .
> 
> ...


Looks nice. It has a lot of inputs / outputs and options, so yeah, they seems to target the TA-ZH1ES segment.


----------



## bauce

anyone know how I can use my iPad Pro m1 as a source for the DMP? I have it in DAC mode directly connected via usb-c but get an error.


----------



## Doug2507

bauce said:


> Do you know where the warranty came from? Moon audio is sending me to a third party website called Clyde to do this. I was thinking you were talking about something directly from Sony?


Directly from Sony. The dealer spoke to Sony, Co firmed I needed proof of ownership transfer, serial number, invoice. Sent that through to the Sony dealer then they emailed me a link which took me to Sony UK to pay for the guarantee which is now registered with Sony UK.


----------



## Doug2507

bauce said:


> anyone know how I can use my iPad Pro m1 as a source for the DMP? I have it in DAC mode directly connected via usb-c but get an error.


What error? I had my Sammy Tab hooked up last night and was playing no problem.


----------



## gerelmx1986

bauce said:


> anyone know how I can use my iPad Pro m1 as a source for the DMP? I have it in DAC mode directly connected via usb-c but get an error.


Apple  is overpriced piece of junk


----------



## Doug2507

gerelmx1986 said:


> Apple  is overpriced piece of junk


Helpful...


----------



## bauce

gerelmx1986 said:


> Apple  is overpriced piece of junk


Cool. How is that relevant in any way?


----------



## bauce

Doug2507 said:


> Directly from Sony. The dealer spoke to Sony, Co firmed I needed proof of ownership transfer, serial number, invoice. Sent that through to the Sony dealer then they emailed me a link which took me to Sony UK to pay for the guarantee which is now registered with Sony UK.


Sweet, I appreciate it. Im hoping Moon Audio are willing to help me out with this after spending 8k with them a few weeks ago.


----------



## Doug2507

Took advantage of DMP dual slot SD today and compared onboard, SanDisk Extreme Pro and Micron (both 1tb). Onboard best to my ears, followed by SanDisk then Micron (very little between them and I would never know the difference if you sat the unit infront of me and asked which card was in).

Next stop on the last perf % test, LPSU. Think I'll get Hypsos but just waiting to see if they'll make up a cable specifically terminated for DMP, would rather use that than an adapter. Also asked if they'll add DMP profile to the firmware.

Playtime I'm beyond caring now, up at just under 800hrs and love it as is. Might try the OG FW at some point (modded one for album art) but at the bottom of the priority list.

One thing that has surprised me, I prefer using both MDR and IER with ZM2 for now. Not spent enough time between them but that's initial thoughts.

And every day I use DMP, it reaffirms how good the Van Nuys case is. Worth every penny if you move DMP about on a daily basis.


----------



## bauce

Im hiring a Japanese translator to help me use a forwarding service for the Van Nuys case


----------



## Doug2507

Have you given Van Nuys a shout? Any Van Nuys dealers on your side of the pond?


----------



## gerelmx1986

My  recirw is long over due haha


----------



## Doug2507

gerelmx1986 said:


> My  recirw is long over due haha


Top tip, spell check!


----------



## gerelmx1986

I like both MDR and IER Z1R. When bass is too much with  IER i switch to MDR


----------



## Doug2507

gerelmx1986 said:


> I like both MDR and IER Z1R. When bass is too much with  IER i switch to MDR


IER definitely has better extension & tighter / cleaner but I find MDR (whilst far from perfect) is less V shaped (I like mids). I find M2 sharpens thinks up vs DMP and for now is the winner. DMP still absolute GOAT with Jewel and getting quite excited to pair it with Storm!  Loving the Sony journey so far, and to think it all started with M2 just because I hadn't heard it and got one on a whim!


----------



## gerelmx1986

2F. Micro SD cards may be soon available


----------



## cosplayerkyo

A new IEM to perfectly match the DMP

Thanks to my friend in Japan for assisting me with getting these.

Got the listening preset tune on these and they sound like SA-Z1 speakers in IEM form


----------



## Doug2507 (Dec 31, 2022)

cosplayerkyo said:


> A new IEM to perfectly match the DMP
> 
> Thanks to my friend in Japan for assisting me with getting these.
> 
> Got the listening preset tune on these and they sound like SA-Z1 speakers in IEM form


Not heard SA-Z1, I'll take that as a good thing...


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Doug2507 said:


> Not heard SA-Z1, I'll take thsg as a good thing...


Yes very good thing 😆

Both SA-Z1 and this tune of the Justears have a bit of a cooler sound profile. Very wide sounding, very very clear, and the imaging is seriously crazy.

I’ve only been listening to it a few days but love these on both the WM1Z and DMP. DMP sounds like it takes it a few notches up, especially in the clarity and imaging.


----------



## Doug2507

cosplayerkyo said:


> Yes very good thing 😆
> 
> Both SA-Z1 and this tune of the Justears have a bit of a cooler sound profile. Very wide sounding, very very clear, and the imaging is seriously crazy.
> 
> I’ve only been listening to it a few days but love these on both the WM1Z and DMP. DMP sounds like it takes it a few notches up, especially in the clarity and imaging.



What was the process for getting these made for you then? Did you send your friend molds and they did the rest?


----------



## gerelmx1986

I was born in


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Doug2507 said:


> What was the process for getting these made for you then? Did you send your friend molds and they did the rest?


I had to go to Japan to get these done. Sony has a place in Shibuya that can do the moldings, you can also go to e-earphones custom earphone shop and schedule the moldings there as well


----------



## bauce

Anyone know if there's any way to play DSD files with the tracks separated? I have two albums but they are just one long album that I can't skip. @Whitigir


----------



## gerelmx1986

bauce said:


> Anyone know if there's any way to play DSD files with the tracks separated? I have two albums but they are just one long album that I can't skip. @Whitigir


sacd_extract.exe?


----------



## gerelmx1986

bauce said:


> Anyone know if there's any way to play DSD files with the tracks separated? I have two albums but they are just one long album that I can't skip. @Whitigir


Or use TEAC hi-res editor to split manually


----------



## Doug2507

bauce said:


> Anyone know if there's any way to play DSD files with the tracks separated? I have two albums but they are just one long album that I can't skip. @Whitigir


I use Jriver and it'll convert DSD to DSF with individual tracks. (also keeps your original DSD in the folder)


----------



## bauce

Thanks guys. Im on a Mac and for some reason the Jriver download link for that isnt working.


----------



## TimTam

nanaholic said:


> There is 256GB of onboard flash storage in the device, the microsd is just for extra external usage, mostly for compatibility with DAPs on the market with the idea that you can pop your card from your player and plug it into the DMP-Z1.


It's important to note that the 256GB of onboard storage is only for storing music files. Any other data or files will not be able to be stored on the device. If you need to store other types of files, you will need to use the microSD card or another external storage device.


----------



## gerelmx1986

TimTam said:


> It's important to note that the 256GB of onboard storage is only for storing music files. Any other data or files will not be able to be stored on the device. If you need to store other types of files, you will need to use the microSD card or another external storage device.


Would be nice if @MrWalkman  could give us a trick to remove the goddamned demo songs from the internal storage hidden partition to recover some space


----------



## MrWalkman

gerelmx1986 said:


> Would be nice if @MrWalkman  could give us a trick to remove the goddamned demo songs from the internal storage hidden partition to recover some space



That partition only has 100 MB or something. Also, as I don't own a DMP-Z1 myself, I wouldn't risk doing stuff like this, which could get the player bricked. There's probably a way to some sort of recovery mode in case bricking happens, but I have no idea without having the device.


----------



## gerelmx1986

MrWalkman said:


> That partition only has 100 MB or something. Also, as I don't own a DMP-Z1 myself, I wouldn't risk doing stuff like this, which could get the player bricked. There's probably a way to some sort of recovery mode in case bricking happens, but I have no idea without having the device.


Yes better not risk it... for 1 or 2GB the demo songs are... 2TB microSD cards are due for this year


----------



## Whitigir

gerelmx1986 said:


> Yes better not risk it... for 1 or 2GB the demo songs are... 2TB microSD cards are due for this year


Won’t be cheap!! Have you seen the price of 1.5Tb ?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Whitigir said:


> Won’t be cheap!! Have you seen the price of 1.5Tb ?


I know... my first 1TB sandiak costed me ca. 400€


----------



## Rob49

Just had notification that my ( Second faulty ) player has been repaired & dispatched, using Royal Mail 24 tracked. That doesn’t mean to say I’ll receive tomorrow, but hope so ??

No details of cost, but no doubt the invoice should be inside - I think they should have told me beforehand, but let’s hope it’s not too expensive ??

I just want a player that is going to last me more than 6 or 7 months……


----------



## Doug2507

Rob49 said:


> Just had notification that my ( Second faulty ) player has been repaired & dispatched, using Royal Mail 24 tracked. That doesn’t mean to say I’ll receive tomorrow, but hope so ??
> 
> No details of cost, but no doubt the invoice should be inside - I think they should have told me beforehand, but let’s hope it’s not too expensive ??
> 
> I just want a player that is going to last me more than 6 or 7 months……


Surely they would let you know if any payment is required before carrying out repair? Sounds like they've done it gratis. At least you'll have it back, win!


----------



## Rob49

Doug2507 said:


> Surely they would let you know if any payment is required before carrying out repair? Sounds like they've done it gratis. At least you'll have it back, win!



Well, that crossed my mind. The fact that I’ve had two players go wrong, each lasting 6 & 7 months, I think they should really. ( There was an “invoice” marked £0.00  for my replacement - so I’ll wait & see if there is an invoice ? They told me they would charge for collection of my player, initially. )

As you say, the main thing is I’m getting it back. I’ve done very little headphone listening, since this second player went faulty back in September. Recently, I’ve been using my “Tazzy” more, which I have enjoyed, but NOTHING sounds like the DMP-Z1.


----------



## gerelmx1986

530h in SE  npw and i am as impressed as with balanced


----------



## Rob49

Well guys…..got my player back……& the worst news possible !

I take the shrink wrap off & out falls a despatch note saying “1 Handling fee” nothing written directly below that.

Then I look at the bottom of the page.

Work carried out.

Unit returned as parts are no longer available and there are no models similar available.
Apologies for any inconvenience this may cause.

I’m utterly appalled. Firstly, no one has bothered to explain in yesterday’s e mail, or at any other time, that they can’t repair it, ( although, it was obvious to me, it’s the same fault, as previous & they said they couldn’t get the parts. )

What do I do, other than obviously ring or e mail them, to be fobbed off. I can’t afford to lose £6.600 + on something that has lasted 6 months.

What can I do ? What are my buyers right’s, if I have any ??

Biggest financial mistake I’ve ever made. Beside myself…..


----------



## bmichels

Rob49 said:


> Well guys…..got my player back……& the worst news possible !
> 
> I take the shrink wrap off & out falls a despatch note saying “1 Handling fee” nothing written directly below that.
> 
> ...


« Parts no longer available « !!  Does this mean that Sony stop producing the DMP-Z1 ? And may will release a new Z2 version ? ?


----------



## Rob49

bmichels said:


> « Parts no longer available « !!  Does this mean that Sony stop producing the DMP-Z1 ? And may will release a new Z2 version ? ?



I don’t know & quite frankly, I don’t care if there’s a Z2 version, or that this response is remotely helpful, to me !


----------



## Doug2507

If you're within warranty and they can't repair it then a full refund should be issued. If you're out of warranty then that's a different kettle of fish.


----------



## Rob49

Doug2507 said:


> If you're within warranty and they can't repair it then a full refund should be issued. If you're out of warranty then that's a different kettle of fish.



As I think I explained in previous posts, the warranty just continued from the initial date of purchase, so there was 6 months left on that, at which point, the second unit failed. ( shortly after. )

I can’t even begin to convey how sick I feel, with just the thought of the financial loss. It’s not like it’s even after years & years of use !


----------



## Doug2507

Yep, feel for you man. I'd be finding the contact details of someone with a bit of clout at Sony HQ on Monday morning.


----------



## Rob49

Thanks. I’ve already tried to make some roads on that avenue, this afternoon, even though it’s the weekend. I can’t let this drop, without every effort & I can do without it. ( As I suffer from severe M.E. )


----------



## Fsilva

If no other solution would be presented at you, you can try to contact nayparm, as he does several mods and repairs on Dap´s, etc, to see if he can have it fixed for u.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Rob49 said:


> Thanks. I’ve already tried to make some roads on that avenue, this afternoon, even though it’s the weekend. I can’t let this drop, without every effort & I can do without it. ( As I suffer from severe M.E. )


I would seriously find a way to get your money back. I have had my eye on this for so long, now there’s a lot of risk for long term use. I wish you the best. I wish I had a solution for this to help with


----------



## Rob49

Fsilva said:


> If no other solution would be presented at you, you can try to contact nayparm, as he does several mods and repairs on Dap´s, etc, to see if he can have it fixed for u.



I’ve heard of his name, but I’m in the U.K. ( & don’t know where he is ?? ) The logistics of it all, but thanks for your suggestion.


Gamerlingual said:


> I would seriously find a way to get your money back. I have had my eye on this for so long, now there’s a lot of risk for long term use. I wish you the best. I wish I had a solution for this to help with



I’m going to do everything I can, the thing I don’t like, is having a confrontation on the phone, which is very likely to happen. How they can just pass it off as an apology for the inconvenience is just not acceptable.

The thing is, it’s not even long term use, 6 months each, for two brand new players. I don’t see this as bad luck. To me there’s a fault within the making of the DMP-Z1. The same fault, ( even though they haven’t explained anything to me, which is further insult. )

Thanks for your best wishes.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Well guys…..got my player back……& the worst news possible !
> 
> I take the shrink wrap off & out falls a despatch note saying “1 Handling fee” nothing written directly below that.
> 
> ...


You could contact Steve from NP Audio (he is ajso beit) to gelp you


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> You could contact Steve from NP Audio (he is ajso beit) to gelp you



Thanks for the suggestion & again, don’t know where he is located. Ultimately, Sony have to do something & I’ve read & got some idea of how bad their after sales is, but as I said, I’m not letting this drop. It’s just knowing who I contact, because I already know I’m going to be fobbed off.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion & again, don’t know where he is located. Ultimately, Sony have to do something & I’ve read & got some idea of how bad their after sales is, but as I said, I’m not letting this drop. It’s just knowing who I contact, because I already know I’m going to be fobbed off.


He steve is naypa. He has a website where you can look


----------



## Hinomotocho

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion & again, don’t know where he is located. Ultimately, Sony have to do something & I’ve read & got some idea of how bad their after sales is, but as I said, I’m not letting this drop. It’s just knowing who I contact, because I already know I’m going to be fobbed off.


My country has stingy general return policies but it does have a consumer protection that says a product a company sells, regardless of the usually standard 1 year warranty, should have a life expectancy of a certain amount of years. A higher-end, premium product is deemed to have a longer life span. If you have issues with Sony honouring a refund have a look at your country's consumer protection.
It's unfortunate and disappointing that a premium product from Sony has had issues, then been deemed irreparable. 
All the best


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> He steve is naypa. He has a website where you can look



Thanks for that, my friend.

It appears they’re in the U.K. ? but didn’t look into all the detail - & I just immediately filled in a question form. I will look further, at the website today.

Thanks again, for trying to help.


----------



## Rob49

Hinomotocho said:


> My country has stingy general return policies but it does have a consumer protection that says a product a company sells, regardless of the usually standard 1 year warranty, should have a life expectancy of a certain amount of years. A higher-end, premium product is deemed to have a longer life span. If you have issues with Sony honouring a refund have a look at your country's consumer protection.
> It's unfortunate and disappointing that a premium product from Sony has had issues, then been deemed irreparable.
> All the best



Yes, consumer protection had crossed my mind & in this instance, being so expensive & a premium product, you don’t expect them, ( or anyone ) to say, sorry it’s lasted 6 months, but we can’t do anything about it. ( & we’re talking, having had two units, for the same length of time. )

I just don’t know who I contact regards consumer protection, in the U.K. but of course, that’s where Google comes in handy…..

Thank you.


----------



## camera

Rob49 said:


> Yes, consumer protection had crossed my mind & in this instance, being so expensive & a premium product, you don’t expect them, ( or anyone ) to say, sorry it’s lasted 6 months, but we can’t do anything about it. ( & we’re talking, having had two units, for the same length of time. )
> 
> I just don’t know who I contact regards consumer protection, in the U.K. but of course, that’s where Google comes in handy…..
> 
> Thank you.


You may post your issues in the Facebook of Sony UK and see how they respond.

https://www.facebook.com/SonyUK


----------



## Rob49

camera said:


> You may post your issues in the Facebook of Sony UK and see how they respond.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/SonyUK



Thanks for that. I’ve left a long message / explanation on there.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> He steve is naypa. He has a website where you can look



Just to say, I’ve contacted, Steve & we have exchanged several messages & he can’t be 100% sure exactly what has gone wrong, ( even though I have told him the parts, previously mentioned with the first unit. ) but he is prepared to have a look, if Sony don’t pull out their finger. ( Which, they’re clearly not doing ! )

Do you know if many people on here have had products fixed by, Steve ?


----------



## Doug2507

Rob49 said:


> Just to say, I’ve contacted, Steve & we have exchanged several messages & he can’t be 100% sure exactly what has gone wrong, ( even though I have told him the parts, previously mentioned with the first unit. ) but he is prepared to have a look, if Sony don’t pull out their finger. ( Which, they’re clearly not doing ! )
> 
> Do you know if many people on here have had products fixed by, Steve ?


Lots! Well known, quality work. It'll be in good hands.


----------



## Rob49

Doug2507 said:


> Lots! Well known, quality work. It'll be in good hands.


Well, I can’t fault his correspondence today, especially it being Sunday.

I can’t see on his website, if he has ever fixed a DMP-Z1 ??


----------



## gerelmx1986

Th only option i see with @Rob49  case is to take his DMP to some one or a shop rhat is willing to carey a repair


----------



## Fsilva (Sunday at 6:31 PM)

Rob49 said:


> Just to say, I’ve contacted, Steve & we have exchanged several messages & he can’t be 100% sure exactly what has gone wrong, ( even though I have told him the parts, previously mentioned with the first unit. ) but he is prepared to have a look, if Sony don’t pull out their finger. ( Which, they’re clearly not doing ! )
> 
> Do you know if many people on here have had products fixed by, Steve ?


I´ve got my wm1z modded by him, and later i incidently pushed my microsd card too hard and the unit no longer turned on, and he fixed it for me, upgraded with new battery, plus some more caps, painted the chassis, and it came like a new unit!

Steve is a very trustworthy chap from the Uk, and I will vouch for him, and trust his skills and work!


----------



## Rob49 (Monday at 3:55 AM)

Fsilva said:


> I´ve got my wm1z modded by him, and later i incidently pushed my microsd card too hard and the unit no longer turned on, and he fixed it for me, upgraded with new battery, plus some more caps, painted the chassis, and it came like a new unit!
> 
> Steve is a very trustworthy chap from the Uk, and I will vouch for him, and trust his skills and work!



Thanks. I appreciate the feedback & Steve has communicated with me throughout yesterday.

He has never repaired or modded a DMP-Z1 ( & I don’t want it modded - just a repair. ) so that concerns me a bit, not knowing the differences between each device & if he can get the parts ?? I don’t know if Sony are robbing me off about the parts, because they don’t want the hassle or are just incompetent ! ??

If Sony refuse to do anything, then being in the U.K. Steve, is my only viable option.

Would you say costs are expensive ??


----------



## Doug2507

Did Sony tell you what needs replaced?


----------



## camera

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for that. I’ve left a long message / explanation on there.


Not sure if escalating the issue to Sony Japan would help.

I have just navigated the webpage of Sony JP and found that we can send mails to Sony JP for assistance.

Please use Google Translate:

https://www.sony.jp/support/inquiry_mail.html
click "other audio equipment (I believe)  
then click Agree  https://www.sony.jp/support/inquiry_mail-kiyaku.html
fill out the inquiry form  https://inquiry.support.sony.jp/cic_all


----------



## Rob49

Doug2507 said:


> Did Sony tell you what needs replaced?



With this second unit, nothing. As I said, all I received, out of the blue, was a generic e mail saying, “We are pleased to dispatch…..” That’s an insult in itself ! ( Knowing they hadn’t fixed - I suspect strongly, given that it looks like the same fault, that they haven’t even looked at it, letting nearly a month go by, creating the impression they had…..??


camera said:


> Not sure if escalating the issue to Sony Japan would help.
> 
> I have just navigated the webpage of Sony JP and found that we can send mails to Sony JP for assistance.
> 
> ...



Thank you. I appreciate that. I’ll have a look.

To be honest, Saturday afternoon, I Googled C.E.O. of Sony & got results ( Whether they’re correct ?? ) & sent e mail, which has not been returned as undeliverable. Not that I have any real hope of a reply ??


----------



## Nostoi

Rob49 said:


> With this second unit, nothing. As I said, all I received, out of the blue, was a generic e mail saying, “We are pleased to dispatch…..” That’s an insult in itself ! ( Knowing they hadn’t fixed - I suspect strongly, given that it looks like the same fault, that they haven’t even looked at it, letting nearly a month go by, creating the impression they had…..??
> 
> 
> Thank you. I appreciate that. I’ll have a look.
> ...


Been watching this with mild interest. For what it's worth, if you want to get an actual reply from Sony, I would contact Sony UK by phone until you're in the right department. Once you're in contact with the customer service, explain your issue and hope they can do something about it. I highly doubt that contacting them via Facebook much less Sony Japan let alone anyone in the CEO camp will achieve anything. 

You're only chance of success with Sony is with whichever retailer sold you the unit or with Sony UK repair/customer service. If they don't have parts and it's still under warranty, then I guess you have to contact consumer rights groups in the UK. So long as you bought the first unit under a year ago, you should have some kind of rights.


----------



## Rob49

Nostoi said:


> Been watching this with mild interest. For what it's worth, if you want to get an actual reply from Sony, I would contact Sony UK by phone until you're in the right department. Once you're in contact with the customer service, explain your issue and hope they can do something about it. I highly doubt that contacting them via Facebook much less Sony Japan let alone anyone in the CEO camp will achieve anything.
> 
> You're only chance of success with Sony is with whichever retailer sold you the unit or with Sony UK repair/customer service. If they don't have parts and it's still under warranty, then I guess you have to contact consumer rights groups in the UK. So long as you bought the first unit under a year ago, you should have some kind of rights.



Thanks for your reply & advice. It’s certainly my intention to ring Sony U.K. but I just want to see what initial response I get from Sony Central Repair, from the e mail I sent.

It is a replacement unit, that had just gone out of warranty. You do not get a new 12 month warranty, with a replacement.

If they don’t budge, I will look into ringing Citizen’s Advice, regards consumer protection rights. ( I purchased the initial unit from Amazon - I hope Sony don’t try & pass the buck, regards any refund ?? )


----------



## Nostoi

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for your reply & advice. It’s certainly my intention to ring Sony U.K. but I just want to see what initial response I get from Sony Central Repair, from the e mail I sent.
> 
> It is a replacement unit, that had just gone out of warranty. You do not get a new 12 month warranty, with a replacement.
> 
> If they don’t budge, I will look into ringing Citizen’s Advice, regards consumer protection rights. ( I purchased the initial unit from Amazon - I hope Sony don’t try & pass the buck, regards any refund ?? )


Been a long time since I lived in the UK, but I used to remember services like _Which?_ as offering advise on consumer rights. CAB indeed also could be worth a go. 

OK, if it's out of warranty, then it might be a different picture. You could try Amazon also but they tend to be very stringent on warranty expiration dates and will certainly not offer technical assistance. 

Good luck in any case.


----------



## Rob49

Nostoi said:


> Been a long time since I lived in the UK, but I used to remember services like _Which?_ as offering advise on consumer rights. CAB indeed also could be worth a go.
> 
> OK, if it's out of warranty, then it might be a different picture. You could try Amazon also but they tend to be very stringent on warranty expiration dates and will certainly not offer technical assistance.
> 
> Good luck in any case.



Thanks for your further reply…..believe you me, I wish I didn’t live here ! ( Not for a second do I think I’ll get anywhere with Amazon, but I’ll have to pursue everything avenue I can, obviously. )

…..and thanks…..I think I’m going to need it !


----------



## Rob49

The present state of play……

This afternoon, I’ve received an e mail reply from Sony Central Repair, saying sorry for the disappointment & again reiterating that they couldn’t get the parts, so couldn’t repair it. ( Of course, I’ve replied further. )

I then rang Sony U.K. ( I had the phone put down on me twice & I wasn’t even in angry mode, so at the third attempt, I expressed that I did not want the phone put down on me again.

I explained the situation…..& you can guess what happened !…..he told me to speak to the engineer…..and proceeded to give me their contact number. ( I told him of their replies. )

He still tried to push the contact the engineer. I said that is clearly no good. I said I need to make a complaint, to someone there & asked him, if you were a customer in this situation, or someone at Sony Central Repair was a customer, would you be happy about losing £6.600 on a premium product that has lasted 6 months.

At this point, he said he would raise a case reference & asked if I could send proof of invoice purchase.

I still have no doubt, that I’m going to be fobbed off, regardless of them asking for the invoice. The last e mail said they would contact within 24 hours.

I have not contacted Citizen’s Advice yet, so I’ll just see what they reply with first…..


----------



## Sonic Defender

I would contact a News team. Here in Canada the CBC has a segment where people contact them with problems like this where they are being given the run around. No company wants avoidable bad press, but the type of bad exposure you can give them is frankly nothing they would care about, nor should you get into threatening them. However, if they received a call from a national news agency who have picked up the case on your behalf, well they are much more likely to worry about that type of exposure. IMO anyway. Good luck and sorry about your troubles.


----------



## gerelmx1986

On fhis thread ive aeem pnly two defectove DMP pne had a hum problem and now robs player


----------



## Rob49

Sonic Defender said:


> I would contact a News team. Here in Canada the CBC has a segment where people contact them with problems like this where they are being given the run around. No company wants avoidable bad press, but the type of bad exposure you can give them is frankly nothing they would care about, nor should you get into threatening them. However, if they received a call from a national news agency who have picked up the case on your behalf, well they are much more likely to worry about that type of exposure. IMO anyway. Good luck and sorry about your troubles.



Thanks for your thoughts & advice. I would hope I don’t have to resort to that, but I agree it wouldn’t look good for them. It’s causing a lot of stress, because of the worry of the financial loss, especially as I could have put the money to more important use, but I have loved & miss using the player, but I now regret very much purchasing it.


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> On fhis thread ive aeem pnly two defectove DMP pne had a hum problem and now robs player



Somewhere early on in the thread, bought a used unit & without checking I think they had the same fault as mine ? I remember the guy complaining about the hum.

The thing that I can’t get my head round, is that I’ve had two players, appearing to develop the same fault, in 6 & 7 months, respectively. I haven’t remotely misused the players, so I do find it completely puzzling, that I could be so unlucky !


----------



## Fsilva

Rob49 said:


> Thanks. I appreciate the feedback & Steve has communicated with me throughout yesterday.
> 
> He has never repaired or modded a DMP-Z1 ( & I don’t want it modded - just a repair. ) so that concerns me a bit, not knowing the differences between each device & if he can get the parts ?? I don’t know if Sony are robbing me off about the parts, because they don’t want the hassle or are just incompetent ! ??
> 
> ...


If sony is unable to repair due to lack of parts, and since Steven has done mods on almost every dap available in the market, he would be your chance imo to get a solution, if there´s any available. 

As for costs he will provide you with an estimate before you take the plunge. 

Hope Sony reply back to u with a solution, but i´m afraid that since it´s sony uk, and the unit is not build in the uk, i can´t see how can they get the unit repaired, hence the reason while when u were during the warranty period, they exchanged for a new unit.

Best of luck!


----------



## Rob49

Fsilva said:


> If sony is unable to repair due to lack of parts, and since Steven has done mods on almost every dap available in the market, he would be your chance imo to get a solution, if there´s any available.
> 
> As for costs he will provide you with an estimate before you take the plunge.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your further input. If that is the reason then, they shouldn’t be selling the product in the U.K. I’m not convinced that they can’t get the parts. What I’m more inclined to think is that they have incompetent engineer. ( This is the U.K. ! )

Steve, in his initial response, was perplexed that they couldn’t get the parts to fix it. In this second instance, they haven’t even told me the parts that have gone wrong & I’ve asked them to clarify. ( Is Steve on this forum - is he nayparm - or however you spell it ?? ) As you say, he looks like my only option, regards getting it fixed.

I’ll see if Sony reply today, tomorrow, e.t.c.
…..and thanks…


----------



## Hinomotocho (Tuesday at 5:39 AM)

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for your further input. If that is the reason then, they shouldn’t be selling the product in the U.K. I’m not convinced that they can’t get the parts. What I’m more inclined to think is that they have incompetent engineer. ( This is the U.K. ! )
> 
> Steve, in his initial response, was perplexed that they couldn’t get the parts to fix it. In this second instance, they haven’t even told me the parts that have gone wrong & I’ve asked them to clarify. ( Is Steve on this forum - is he nayparm - or however you spell it ?? ) As you say, he looks like my only option, regards getting it fixed.
> 
> ...


I'd keep on at the various levels of Sony expressing your disappointment at the lack of communication and how they have poorly handled your case and their inability to offer after sales support for a premium item, subtely suggesting that you intend to take this further mentioning consumer protection etc or approaching the media.
The legal world is complex but you could argue that you wouldn't have spent such a large sum of money on a high end premium product if you knew that there would be no support after just over a year, regardless of the replacement one, leaving you with a several thousand pound product that doesn't work. You had confidence in the Sony brand and you have been let down and it's not good enough. I follow some Fiio threads and I am impressed by the presence of people from the company and their response to member's enquiries and support for issues, even offering direct support when a local supplier is failing to effectively resolve and issue.
Hopefully it comes down to someone being lazy or trying to save a few bucks on shipping a part from another country and it can be easily resolved for little, or ideally no charge.

Nayparm has a website and can be contacted through there.


----------



## Rob49

Hinomotocho said:


> I'd keep on at the various levels of Sony expressing your disappointment at the lack of communication and how they have poorly handled your case and their inability to offer after sales support for a premium item, subtely suggesting that you intend to take this further mentioning consumer protection etc or approaching the media.
> The legal world is complex but you could argue that you wouldn't have spent such a large sum of money on a high end premium product if you knew that there would be no support after just over a year, regardless of the replacement one, leaving you with a several thousand pound product that doesn't work. You had confidence in the Sony brand and you have been let down and it's not good enough. I follow some Fiio threads and I am impressed by the presence of people from the company and their response to member's enquiries and support for issues, even offering direct support when a local supplier is failing to effectively resolve and issue.
> Hopefully it comes down to someone being lazy or trying to save a few bucks on shipping a part from another country and it can be easily resolved for little, or ideally no charge.
> 
> Nayparm has a website and can be contacted through there.



I’ve actually just expressed all that to Sony in an e mail reply, just now. ( I’m a life long, Sony purchaser, many products, from audio, to visual & I’ve had all this stuff for many years now, without any fault. )

I hope it doesn’t come to what you say, with having to get other organisations involved, given my personal health situation, I can do without the added stress.

Sadly, from what I can see, Sony have a poor reputation with after sales service & this is my first experience of it.

Is Steve, Nayparm, ( if so, I’ve obviously looked on his website. )

Many thanks, for your valuable advice & trying to keep me focused on remaining in a calm state, that this can be resolved.


----------



## cat3600

@Rob49 I have owned many Sony ES units over the years. The only issue I ever had was with the HAP-Z1ES screen and Sony fixed it promptly. I know you are not in the US or Canada but try calling their ES line in North America, worth a shot.

1(877) 619-7669, operating hours: Mon – Fri, from 9:00 am to 8:00 pm ET"


----------



## Rob49

cat3600 said:


> @Rob49 I have owned many Sony ES units over the years. The only issue I ever had was with the HAP-Z1ES screen and Sony fixed it promptly. I know you are not in the US or Canada but try calling their ES line in North America, worth a shot.
> 
> 1(877) 619-7669, operating hours: Mon – Fri, from 9:00 am to 8:00 pm ET"



Thank you for that, although, I probably won’t just at this moment & just hold on for the next reply, expected in the next 24 hours.

I actually own a HAP-S1. There was information posted on Sony website, about a fault with white lines across the display screeen, which I have & due to the physical aspects of hassle in returning, I didn’t. Of course, those white lines are still there & it’s annoying, but it still plays fine.

( Just a little update, at the weekend i initially posted on Facebook, to Sony U.K. I’ve just received a reply, to say the usual rubbish of inconvenience / disappointment, even mentioning examples of misuse & saying they can’t do anything. I’ve replied back & said a case reference was issued, last night & that it has been escalated to other’s, so I won’t be communicating further on there, which I told them - again now, this has caused me anxiet. )


----------



## cat3600

Rob49 said:


> Thank you for that, although, I probably won’t just at this moment & just hold on for the next reply, expected in the next 24 hours.
> 
> I actually own a HAP-S1. There was information posted on Sony website, about a fault with white lines across the display screeen, which I have & due to the physical aspects of hassle in returning, I didn’t. Of course, those white lines are still there & it’s annoying, but it still plays fine.
> 
> ( Just a little update, at the weekend i initially posted on Facebook, to Sony U.K. I’ve just received a reply, to say the usual rubbish of inconvenience / disappointment, even mentioning examples of misuse & saying they can’t do anything. I’ve replied back & said a case reference was issued, last night & that it has been escalated to other’s, so I won’t be communicating further on there, which I told them - again now, this has caused me anxiet. )


Really wishing you all the best to get this resolved and so very unfortunate especially given how expensive the product is. I had the same white line problem with my HAP-Z1ES as well and they shipped a new screen to a service center in my city in Canada within 2 weeks I picked up the unit with a new screen. The only other time I have had an issue with a Sony product was with a wireless noise canceling headphone and Sony sent out a new one within a week. So I personally can't complain about my experiences with Sony.


----------



## Doug2507

I'm making a commitment to a dedicated desktop setup so DMP is very reluctantly going up for sale. I've not listed yet but would anyone here be interested in the van nuys case I have for it before I put it to the vultures?


----------



## Rob49

I haven’t t heard back from Sony U.K. yet, but I have received a further reply from Sony Central Repair, saying that the players have been disco


cat3600 said:


> Really wishing you all the best to get this resolved and so very unfortunate especially given how expensive the product is. I had the same white line problem with my HAP-Z1ES as well and they shipped a new screen to a service center in my city in Canada within 2 weeks I picked up the unit with a new screen. The only other time I have had an issue with a Sony product was with a wireless noise canceling headphone and Sony sent out a new one within a week. So I personally can't complain about my experiences with Sony.



Thank you. At the moment, it’s turning out to be the biggest regret I’ve made, financially. I’m still waiting to hear from Sony U.K.

I have had an email, this morning from Sony Central Repair, again apologising, ( again ignoring, the elephant in the room. ) and saying the player is now discontinued & the parts are no longer available ( I did just check on Sony jp & it is discontinued. ) & to contact management at Sony U.K. ( Which I’ve informed them, that I’ve already done & waiting to hear back.

They still haven’t told me what parts have failed & I’ve asked yet again, what they are ?


----------



## Doug2507

I'm calling BS on Sony UK, they sold the last ones in October / November, mine being the last or very close to it. Can't believe they could sell something then remove any support for it a month later. Maybe different if in warranty and maybe they're holding onto parts for any warranty repairs.


----------



## Rob49 (Yesterday at 7:30 AM)

Doug2507 said:


> I'm calling BS on Sony UK, they sold the last ones in October / November, mine being the last or very close to it. Can't believe they could sell something then remove any support for it a month later. Maybe different if in warranty and maybe they're holding onto parts for any warranty repairs.



Did you buy from Sony ?

I’ve had e mail stating the failed part(s) attached - the one e mail, shows the original unit, failure & the other, this second unit. ( It appears the main board hasn’t failed this time ?? )

Any thoughts, from the likes of @Whitigir ??


----------



## cat3600

Rob49 said:


> Did you buy from Sony ?
> 
> I’ve had e mail stating the failed part(s) attached - the one e mail, shows the original unit, failure & the other, this second unit. ( At appears the main board hasn’t failed this time ?? )
> 
> Any thoughts, from the likes of @Whitigir ??


Something is not right it looks like the same part was changed 2 times and the first time the main mother board as well. Which leads me to believe they mis diagnosed the issue and the fault is elsewhere....this caused the battery to go twice, which means the original fault hasn't been rectified. They probably changed the motherboard first time randomly.

Sony keeps parts for many years after production ends so parts should be available. Sony needs to send this to Japan or the factory to be looked into, it's very obvious the UK service center is not capable of diagnosing the actual problem and just changed parts!


----------



## Rob49 (Yesterday at 7:57 AM)

cat3600 said:


> Something is not right it looks like the same part was changed 2 times and the first time the main mother board as well. Which leads me to believe they mis diagnosed the issue and the fault is elsewhere....this caused the battery to go twice, which means the original fault hasn't been rectified. They probably changed the motherboard first time randomly.
> 
> Sony keeps parts for many years after production ends so parts should be available. Sony needs to send this to Japan or the factory to be looked into, it's very obvious the UK service center is not capable of diagnosing the actual problem and just changed parts!



My first unit was replaced, because they said they couldn’t get the parts. ( This happened 12 months ago now. ) They replaced the unit, because it was still under warrant. So February of last year, I received my replacement unit.

If we go back to 12 months ago, I believed then ( & I still do now. ) that they could get the parts, but couldn’t be bothered, or didn’t have the capability to repair it ? It’s clear to me, those parts should have been available, 12 months ago & as you say & other’s have said, they carry parts for years after. ( I personally have no idea, if they do, but logic should say they do ? )

I’ve asked yet again, in my last e mail, about carrying parts ( somewhere in the world ) years after……and as of yet, they still haven’t answered that…..

@Doug2507 is right regards the BS. 12 months ago, they said the parts weren’t available, yet they could source a replacement unit…..it definitely was the fact they couldn’t be bothered, or were incompetent, or both ! ?


----------



## Whitigir

I haven’t followed this thread for a while.  I don’t know what your situation is.  About Sony and parts, I have seen instances where parts are unavailable, and they refuse to service it.  Sony is not the only one though, it happens to all, no parts = unable to repair/produce.

The way Sony do parts on DMP is that they keep a complete Board as parts.  In case something was to happen, they replace the whole PCB.  What exactly is the issues ? The battery refused charging or what ?


----------



## Rob49 (Yesterday at 8:58 AM)

I’ve just had a reply from the case reference, issued the night before last. The conclusion of the investigation, the product has been discontinued. ( Tell me something I don’t know ! )

Of course, I’ve replied, saying the matter isn’t closed & told them about the consumer protection act 2015.

Time to make those calls, to the appropriate people…..

@Whitigir both units failed, unable to charge. No green charge light, when plugging in.


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> I’ve just had a reply from the case reference, issued the night before last. The conclusion of the investigation, the product has been discontinued. ( Tell me something I don’t know ! )
> 
> Of course, I’ve replied, saying the matter isn’t closed & told them about the consumer protection act 2015.
> 
> ...


Does it has any light when plugging in usb cable ?


----------



## Doug2507

Rob49 said:


> My first unit was replaced, because they said they couldn’t get the parts. ( This happened 12 months ago now. ) They replaced the unit, because it was still under warrant. So February of last year, I received my replacement unit.
> 
> If we go back to 12 months ago, I believed then ( & I still do now. ) that they could get the parts, but couldn’t be bothered, or didn’t have the capability to repair it ? It’s clear to me, those parts should have been available, 12 months ago & as you say & other’s have said, they carry parts for years after. ( I personally have no idea, if they do, but logic should say they do ? )
> 
> ...


Was the newer unit definitely a different serial number from your 1st one? Really odd having exactly the same fault again IMO.


----------



## Rob49 (Yesterday at 11:56 AM)

Whitigir said:


> Does it has any light when plugging in usb cable ?



 Yes, no light, not a peep ! ( With both units. ) Just to add, having not followed the thread, with the second unit, the light didn’t come on, then i suddenly thought I have a 19.5v power supply, from my Sony TV. I tried that, not expecting anything & the light came on, to my surprise. Unfortunately, it lasted a full two weeks & I unplugged & plugged back in, and no light & not one since.


Doug2507 said:


> Was the newer unit definitely a different serial number from your 1st one? Really odd having exactly the same fault again IMO.



Well, it was in a case & packaging, with a different serial number inside the case. ( Not that I’ve checked the unit, but they wouldn’t do a trick like that. ) If I remember correctly, without checking, the second unit, said made in Belgium ?? After trying the unit, when it arrived back, I put it straight back in the box, because I’m so upset.

I’ll have another fob off from Sony, in the next 24 hours…..I have sent further e mails……even photo’s of all the Sony products, that I have owned during the last 20 years, products that I still use…..to express being a loyal, life long customer & again stressing that a premium product should last longer than 6 months. ( Twice ! )


----------



## Doug2507 (Yesterday at 12:30 PM)

Is that PS min 45w / 2.35A as well?


----------



## Rob49

Doug2507 said:


> Is that PS min 45w / 2.35A as well?



Without going to check I don’t know, but at the time of posting on here, @MrWalkman said as long as it is 19.5v it shouldn’t be a problem.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Doug2507 said:


> I'm calling BS on Sony UK, they sold the last ones in October / November, mine being the last or very close to it. Can't believe they could sell something then remove any support for it a month later. Maybe different if in warranty and maybe they're holding onto parts for any warranty repairs.


Mine was bought in november 2021 and after i got amazon dispatch mail, it got pulled out from Amazon website ans ahown as currently unavailable and we are not sure if its or when  be in stock again.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Yes, no light, not a peep ! ( With both units. ) Just to add, having not followed the thread, with the second unit, the light didn’t come on, then i suddenly thought I have a 19.5v power supply, from my Sony TV. I tried that, not expecting anything & the light came on, to my surprise. Unfortunately, it lasted a full two weeks & I unplugged & plugged back in, and no light & not one since.
> 
> 
> Well, it was in a case & packaging, with a different serial number inside the case. ( Not that I’ve checked the unit, but they wouldn’t do a trick like that. ) If I remember correctly, without checking, the second unit, said made in Belgium ?? After trying the unit, when it arrived back, I put it straight back in the box, because I’m so upset.
> ...


Maybe the AV adapter from tour unit is bad? Or have you tought on the fuse inside the mains plug? 

I doubt the whole unit is dead nor do the batteries, could be also a protection inside the device? 

Mine has shutdown twice last year and on turning it back on a pop-up atqting wrong type of HP was plugged in and thw unit has shutgown for protection... only happened wirh IER-M7 balanved


----------



## Rob49 (Today at 9:24 AM)

gerelmx1986 said:


> Mine was bought in november 2021 and after i got amazon dispatch mail, it got pulled out from Amazon website ans ahown as currently unavailable and we are not sure if its or when  be in stock again.



Not that I regularly check, but I haven’t seen it in stock on Amazon U.K. for sometime now. I think you & I were probably one of the last one’s on there. I know you purchased yours after mine. & my initial unit was purchased in July 2021.


gerelmx1986 said:


> Maybe the AV adapter from tour unit is bad? Or have you tought on the fuse inside the mains plug?
> 
> I doubt the whole unit is dead nor do the batteries, could be also a protection inside the device?
> 
> Mine has shutdown twice last year and on turning it back on a pop-up atqting wrong type of HP was plugged in and thw unit has shutgown for protection... only happened wirh IER-M7 balanved



We talked about the fuse situation & I changed it, to no avail.

Sony Central Repair have confirmed this time, that it’s just the batteries, as I posted above, but all that written stuff, sort of goes over my head, with my impaired cognitive function.

As of this morning, I have typed a letter to Sony U.K. which I’ve not long taken to the Post Office, recorded, signed for & I’ve got back to find another e mail reply, from Sony HQ, saying, “Kindly note, we are checking internally & will get back to you as soon as possible”.

I have replied back, to say I have put my issues in writing & that I’ve posted, just now.

( I do keep coming back to, how could I be so unluck, with two brand new players ?? It doesn’t make sense to me, when I can’t ever recall any Sony product I own, actually failing. )

….and just a note on their reply. Seeing has it’s a raised complaint, shouldn’t have they already been investigating “internally” from the start ?


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> Not that I regularly check, but I haven’t seen it in stock on Amazon U.K. for sometime now. I think you & I were probably one of the last one’s on there. I know you purchased yours after mine. & my initial unit was purchased in July 2021.
> 
> 
> We talked about the fuse situation & I changed it, to no avail.
> ...


I am in doubt that you really got a second SMP unit, as for having exact same issue again, looks like they resetted something within the battery circuitry


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> I am in doubt that you really got a second SMP unit, as for having exact same issue again, looks like they resetted something within the battery circuitry



I’m not going to unpack my player just now, but is the serial number on the player, too ? At no time, did I think I received the same unit back, because it even had all plastic ties, for the power plug, e.t.c. The bit of blue coloured tape, in the packaging. Things like that, I’m just trying to remember, but as I said, nothing indicated to me, that this was not a replacement.


----------



## Doug2507

It's on the underside of the player.


----------



## Rob49

Doug2507 said:


> It's on the underside of the player.



I assumed so. I think imaginations are running a bit wild, but will check, when I can bring myself to take it out of the box.

( Steve, at NP Audio, hasn’t replied to my last e mails. )


----------



## Whitigir

To think of Sony for having such issues with flagship product at this caliber and horrid customer services….that is not a good thing


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> To think of Sony for having such issues with flagship product at this caliber and horrid customer services….that is not a good thing



It’s disgraceful & I’ve written the best letter, I could, with no threats to them. A multi billion pound company is ignoring the “elephant in the room”.

Nearly, £6.600 ( For 6 months usage. ) I’ve expressed in my letter, that I’m a lifelong customer, nothing else has failed. I have the same Sony 5.1 speakers, still connected here, that I purchased 19 years ago.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> It’s disgraceful & I’ve written the best letter, I could, with no threats to them. A multi billion pound company is ignoring the “elephant in the room”.
> 
> Nearly, £6.600 ( For 6 months usage. ) I’ve expressed in my letter, that I’m a lifelong customer, nothing else has failed. I have the same Sony 5.1 speakers, still connected here, that I purchased 19 years ago.


If they are the batteries again, theere may ne an issue that is tripping thw proyection circuit.

Letting that aside, batteries cannot be lavking in stock, theyare either made by sony or sanyo thus a poor excuse to say ah we lack the parts and dump you... thats really bad service


----------



## Whitigir

gerelmx1986 said:


> If they are the batteries again, theere may ne an issue that is tripping thw proyection circuit.
> 
> Letting that aside, batteries cannot be lavking in stock, theyare either made by sony or sanyo thus a poor excuse to say ah we lack the parts and dump you... thats really bad service


They probably meant the charging/protection circuits, which is on the main board….which is out of stock


----------



## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> If they are the batteries again, theere may ne an issue that is tripping thw proyection circuit.
> 
> Letting that aside, batteries cannot be lavking in stock, theyare either made by sony or sanyo thus a poor excuse to say ah we lack the parts and dump you... thats really bad service



I’ve asked them since the very beginning, to ask what could possibly be causing these faults ? No reply to question. Should the batteries, these parts be available, somewhere in the Sony world !

This is the U.K. It’s the worst country in the world, presently & has been for a long time.


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> They probably meant the charging/protection circuits, which is on the main board….which is out of stock



……but it appears that they’re saying the main board hasn’t failed this time ??


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> ……but it appears that they’re saying the main board hasn’t failed this time ??


If the mainboard has not failed, then you can use it with external DC supplies directly ? Have you tried it yet ?


----------



## Rob49 (Today at 2:05 PM)

Whitigir said:


> If the mainboard has not failed, then you can use it with external DC supplies directly ? Have you tried it yet ?



Sorry @Whitigir you’ll have to forgive, my cognitive impairment is like mush, today, with all the stress & typing 3 page letters, besides e mails.

What do you mean by DC supplies directly? Are you talking about the power supply ? I tried switching it on, when i received it, of course, I sent it back with the batteries completely drained & I plugged in the power supply & nothing.

I packed it up in all the packaging immediately, because I didn’t want it, at my usual side, because I didn’t want to get even more upset, looking at it.

I’m just this second reading about DC power & trying to understand. A website, that looks like they sell DC power supplies, that says 12v. Excuse me, but I need to understand, incase this is a solution ??

Can you try & help, @Whitigir when you’re free. I’m looking on Amazon U.K. at box shaped devices, when I type in DC Power supply. Something like these ???


----------



## gerelmx1986

Whitigir said:


> They probably meant the charging/protection circuits, which is on the main board….which is out of stock


And is a way so that @Rob49  reset rhis circuit?


----------



## Rob49

Still trying to search. Would something like this be suitable. it’s got DC OUT ?


----------



## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Sorry @Whitigir you’ll have to forgive, my cognitive impairment is like mush, today, with all the stress & typing 3 page letters, besides e mails.
> 
> What do you mean by DC supplies directly? Are you talking about the power supply ? I tried switching it on, when i received it, of course, I sent it back with the batteries completely drained & I plugged in the power supply & nothing.
> 
> ...


The DMP Z1 has the ability to run from DC supply by itself alone, and without charging the battery.  You can just use the stock adapter of 19V for that purposes, even though the stock one is not linear or audiophile quality.  However, you will need the DMP to be turned on first


----------



## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> ……but it appears that they’re saying the main board hasn’t failed this time ??


The vest he could try as i read is to leave his player connected in the mains for a while to aee id thw proyection cirxuitresets, otherwise he muat sent to an expeet like steve for a attempt at repair


----------



## Rob49 (Today at 5:06 PM)

Whitigir said:


> The DMP Z1 has the ability to run from DC supply by itself alone, and without charging the battery.  You can just use the stock adapter of 19V for that purposes, even though the stock one is not linear or audiophile quality.  However, you will need the DMP to be turned on first



@Whitigir sometimes, with respect, I think I’m talking another language ! I have plugged in the 19.5v supply, that came with the player. I have also plugged in another 19.5v supply, off my Sony TV, that worked for two weeks, before it failed again.

My DMP-Z1 does not power up, because I drained all the charge left in the battery, just to see if anything happened. I did this sometime ago, before I finally contacted Sony, to collect it.

I do follow the logic of what you’re saying, that It works on ac power or battery, alone, but there’s no power. There’s no light, green ( obviously charging ) & no red light. There’s nothing at all.

Excuse me, but I’m just so overtired & I read your post thinking it was some solution, I didn’t quite understand & have spent the evening, pointlessly typing in DC power supplies & posting stuff above, that isn’t relevant, hoping that it was !

I wish I could just plug it in & I got power, but I haven’t. It’s dead, so I question about the mother board, situation. Theoretically, based on what you say, you should be able to take the blessed batteries out & just work on ac power, but it doesn’t appear to do that ?? As you imply.


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## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> The vest he could try as i read is to leave his player connected in the mains for a while to aee id thw proyection cirxuitresets, otherwise he muat sent to an expeet like steve for a attempt at repair



Tomorrow, I’ll leave it plugged in all day, but I can’t see that working for a second.

I’ve continued to communicate with Steve & I’ve gone from optimism to pessimism, really. Nothing to do with, Steve. Just the situation of not knowing if this will be a solution, or feel any confidence. This evening Steve, said he looked for Sony parts & they’re out of stock.


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## Whitigir (Today at 5:07 PM)

The DMP only switch automatically to bypass the battery when you check the option.  Otherwise, working on battery is by default.  If it was in that mode before the battery is drained, the only thing you can do is actually to open it up, replace the battery cells, charged it and then plugging it in.  That is given only if the mainboard is not an issues.

However, for a flagship product, Sony should have taken care of you.


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## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Tomorrow, I’ll leave it plugged in all day, but I can’t see that working for a second.
> 
> I’ve continued to communicate with Steve & I’ve gone from optimism to pessimism, really. Nothing to do with, Steve. Just the situation of not knowing if this will be a solution, or feel any confidence. This evening Steve, said he looked for Sony parts & they’re out of stock.


Yes, a lot of Sony parts are out of stock atm, even their newest players Walkman M2


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## gerelmx1986

Rob49 said:


> @Whitigir sometimes, with respect, I think I’m talking another language ! I have plugged in the 19.5v supply, that came with the player. I have also plugged in another 19.5v supply, off my Sony TV, that worked for two weeks, before it failed again.
> 
> My DMP-Z1 does not power up, because I drained all the charge left in the battery, just to see if anything happened. I did this sometime ago, before I finally contacted Sony, to collect it.
> 
> ...


In the first place you shouldn't have used a TV AC adapter as it does not made to power a battery-powered device... i mean it lavks the communication with the batteries circuits to slow down or stop  charging them


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## Whitigir

gerelmx1986 said:


> In the first place you shouldn't have used a TV AC adapter as it does not made to power a battery-powered device... i mean it lavks the communication with the batteries circuits to slow down or stop  charging them


Should be just fine, the battery controlling circuit is within the devices and not the adapters.  Hence I am thinking the mainboard is actually damaged


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## Rob49

gerelmx1986 said:


> In the first place you shouldn't have used a TV AC adapter as it does not made to power a battery-powered device... i mean it lavks the communication with the batteries circuits to slow down or stop  charging them



Perhaps I shouldn’t have, but I did post on here & I got different feedback & @MrWalkman said it should be ok. It worked for 2 weeks, there had not been a peep out of the stock power supply that came with it & if you had been in my shoes, desperately wanting it to light up & it did, with my TV power supply, you would have understood how I felt.
I’ve just got it back out the box & I will plug it in and leave it, certainly overnight, but I’m not expecting any light to come on, but thanks again, for trying to help.

Thanks to everyone on here, that’s tried to help, suggest & be supportive. It’s an extremely stressful situation & the real sad thing is, that no one has loved this player, more than myself & I miss listening to it so much & the chances of ever hearing it again, are unlikely & to me, Steve, is still only a very remote chance, should I decide to send it to him, at some point ?


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## gerelmx1986

Whitigir said:


> Should be just fine, the battery controlling circuit is within the devices and not the adapters.  Hence I am thinking the mainboard is actually damaged


The real question is what could have caused the damage or circuit  trip-up


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## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Perhaps I shouldn’t have, but I did post on here & I got different feedback & @MrWalkman said it should be ok. It worked for 2 weeks, there had not been a peep out of the stock power supply that came with it & if you had been in my shoes, desperately wanting it to light up & it did, with my TV power supply, you would have understood how I felt.
> I’ve just got it back out the box & I will plug it in and leave it, certainly overnight, but I’m not expecting any light to come on, but thanks again, for trying to help.
> 
> Thanks to everyone on here, that’s tried to help, suggest & be supportive. It’s an extremely stressful situation & the real sad thing is, that no one has loved this player, more than myself & I miss listening to it so much & the chances of ever hearing it again, are unlikely & to me, Steve, is still only a very remote chance, should I decide to send it to him, at some point ?


You would have to contact Steve to see ? But if Sony was positive that the mainboard is working, then swapping out the battery cells should be the next logical steps.  But that involving someone who “modify stuff”.  

But if DMP was still under warranty, and it is no longer produced, Sony has no parts, then they should do something for you.  For example, a discount, or a refund if you return the device


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## Whitigir (Today at 5:31 PM)

gerelmx1986 said:


> The real question is what could have caused the damage or circuit  trip-up


Electrical devices, sometimes they just toss their hands up and quit working, until you find out the culprit.  It isn’t hard to trace it down, but for something of this magnitude in $$ and within warranty, it is mind blowing.  However, these stuff do happen, even in expensive vehicle such as BMW flagship cars or whatsoever.  All it takes is one FET or any components to be defective and stopped working


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## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Should be just fine, the battery controlling circuit is within the devices and not the adapters.  Hence I am thinking the mainboard is actually damaged



The thing is, I don’t believe anything that Sony Central repair say. They didn’t tell me anything at all, this second time & both times I had to ask what parts had failed. So, I think for them to say the mother board hasn’t failed, based on what you say, that this should work independently, doesn’t ring true. I think they just said something for the sake of it.
It’s still my belie, that they may have not looked at it all, based on the fact, I told them it must be the same fault & if they couldn’t get the parts 12 months ago, they weren’t going to get them now. I wouldn’t be surprised if they just let the month go by, to look as if something was being done & then just sent it back, especially has they never communicated at all during the month, it was away, not even a notification, that they couldn’t get the parts.
I’m probably wasting my time plugging it in & leaving it for awhile, because it’s not going to suddenly light up.


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## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> The thing is, I don’t believe anything that Sony Central repair say. They didn’t tell me anything at all, this second time & both times I had to ask what parts had failed. So, I think for them to say the mother board hasn’t failed, based on what you say, that this should work independently, doesn’t ring true. I think they just said something for the sake of it.
> It’s still my belie, that they may have not looked at it all, based on the fact, I told them it must be the same fault & if they couldn’t get the parts 12 months ago, they weren’t going to get them now. I wouldn’t be surprised if they just let the month go by, to look as if something was being done & then just sent it back, especially has they never communicated at all during the month, it was away, not even a notification, that they couldn’t get the parts.
> I’m probably wasting my time plugging it in & leaving it for awhile, because it’s not going to suddenly light up.


That may be something that they did, or did not, there is no way to tell.  I would think that if they don’t want to fix it up, they certainly should have paying toward someone else who is willing to fix it up, by refunding a portion of it ?

Though there are some instances that boggle my mind, how did they come to the conclusion that it was not the main board ? If the battery keeps on dying


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## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> You would have to contact Steve to see ? But if Sony was positive that the mainboard is working, then swapping out the battery cells should be the next logical steps.  But that involving someone who “modify stuff”.
> 
> But if DMP was still under warranty, and it is no longer produced, Sony has no parts, then they should do something for you.  For example, a discount, or a refund if you return the device



As Steve rightly says, he can’t know anything, till he has seen inside & his said a number of scenario’s, all that fill me with not really feeling over confident.

It’s gone past the warranty, but I’m not going to give up, & I will contact the consumer ombudsman next, if there’s a dead lock.


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## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> As Steve rightly says, he can’t know anything, till he has seen inside & his said a number of scenario’s, all that fill me with not really feeling over confident.
> 
> It’s gone past the warranty, but I’m not going to give up, & I will contact the consumer ombudsman next, if there’s a dead lock.


I agree with Steve, no one knows until it is opened up and physically examined.  Otherwise, we are just whispering to the airs

the issues persisted while it was under warranty right ? And it happened again after warranty ? They should have taken into account all of those downtime (which you were not using) and give you extended warranty accordingly


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## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> That may be something that they did, or did not, there is no way to tell.  I would think that if they don’t want to fix it up, they certainly should have paying toward someone else who is willing to fix it up, by refunding a portion of it ?
> 
> Though there are some instances that boggle my mind, how did they come to the conclusion that it was not the main board ? If the battery keeps on dying



Well let’s put it like this @Whitigir I’m certain in my own mind, that you’re more competent than any engineer at Sony Central, in the U.K.

I know nothing, obviously, but logically what you’re saying about the mind boggling……


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## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> I agree with Steve, no one knows until it is opened up and physically examined.  Otherwise, we are just whispering to the airs
> 
> the issues persisted while it was under warranty right ? And it happened again after warranty ? They should have taken into account all of those downtime (which you were not using) and give you extended warranty accordingly



Just to give you very brief background, first unit failed after 6 months. It was away for a month ( & thinking now, of what you say, now, that was a month of my warranty used up - I’ll bear that in mind, for any future discussions, with them ! )

They replaced with a new unit, saying they couldn’t get the parts. ( How true could that be in January, 2022 ? ) Having had this second player, just over 6 months, failing again & now being out of warranty.


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## Whitigir

Rob49 said:


> Just to give you very brief background, first unit failed after 6 months. It was away for a month ( & thinking now, of what you say, now, that was a month of my warranty used up - I’ll bear that in mind, for any future discussions, with them ! )
> 
> They replaced with a new unit, saying they couldn’t get the parts. ( How true could that be in January, 2022 ? ) Having had this second player, just over 6 months, failing again & now being out of warranty.


And there goes the old saying “thunder doesn’t strike twice at the same place”….I feel your pains


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## gerelmx1986

Absolutely all my sony devices from walkman to xperia to VAIO laptop and cyberahot /alpha DSLR camera do rhis if tou depkete theresg battery power... they dont powerup inmediately, they firet charge a bit and then they come back on alone


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## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> And there goes the old saying “thunder doesn’t strike twice at the same place”….I feel your pains



This is what doesn’t add up to me & believe you me, I’ve had a lot of stuff happen in my life, but I didn’t think it was possible, to be this unlucky ! Non of my Sony stuff, has ever failed, stuff I’ve owned for 20 years, it would be the most expensive purchase ever……it will teach me a lesson….although, non of this is my fault.


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