# JDS Labs Element



## imackler

Just a teaser pic so far.. 
https://www.jdslabs.com/?the_element


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## Ultrainferno

imackler said:


> Just a teaser pic so far..
> https://www.jdslabs.com/mobile/


 
  
 https://www.jdslabs.com/?the_element


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## UNOE

I just saw this.  Looks like a desktop dac/amp but can't tell.


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## xuan87

unoe said:


> I just saw this.  Looks like a desktop dac/amp but can't tell.


 
  
 To me, it looks like a desktop amp, but I'm hoping that it will be a desktop dac/amp (or have both options and keep everyone happy ).
  
 Judging from the single output, I think it will be single ended amp.


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## imackler

Just a few details on FB from JDS Labs: 
Appearance is revealed today. As much as we'd like to share now, complete details will come in June.
Desktop. For size reference, the knob you see is about 3 inches in diameter.
1.5W @ 32 ohm. Triple 0's in all distortion measurements.


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## jseaber

xuan87 said:


> To me, it looks like a desktop amp, but I'm hoping that it will be a desktop dac/amp (or have both options and keep everyone happy ).
> 
> Judging from the single output, I think it will be single ended amp.


 
  
 The Element will launch as an Amp+DAC.
  


imackler said:


> Just a teaser pic so far..
> https://www.jdslabs.com/mobile/


 
  
 Thanks for sharing! FYI - picture quality is better in the original link:
 https://www.jdslabs.com/?the_element


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## imackler

jseaber said:


> The Element will launch as an Amp+DAC.


 
  
 Can't wait to hear the price! 
  
 I think we all know what to expect regarding build quality. Looks stunning, too! 
  
 And great tagline, too.


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## ER4S

Looking forward for details. I hope it'll mantain natural/analytical sound signature like other JDS products..


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## ClieOS

Can't wait for more detail...


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## ER4S

Some of details from JDS Labs' FB page: 
  
 "_1.5W @ 32 ohm. Triple 0's in all distortion measurements._"
  
"_For size reference, the knob you see is about 3 inches in diameter."_
  
_"Complete details will come in June._"


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## imackler

imackler said:


> Just a few details on FB from JDS Labs:
> Appearance is revealed today. As much as we'd like to share now, complete details will come in June.
> Desktop. For size reference, the knob you see is about 3 inches in diameter.
> 1.5W @ 32 ohm. Triple 0's in all distortion measurements.


 
  
  


er4s said:


> Some of details from JDS Labs' FB page:
> 
> "_1.5W @ 32 ohm. Triple 0's in all distortion measurements._"
> 
> ...


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## canthearyou

Awesome!


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## ER4S

imackler said:


>


 
  
 Wow sorry, didn't see that 
  
 I think we're all waiting for details!! lol


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## imackler

Any guessing on the price? $399 is my guess.


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## notfitforpublic

Subscribed both here and the site. Looks fantastic and can't wait to hear the details. The design is exactly what i've been looking for...


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## j3tty

Can't wait!
 -   JC
  
 Jet.FM


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## xuan87

imackler said:


> Any guessing on the price? $399 is my guess.


 
  
 Fair pricing, but still steep competition at this price range, top off my head, the Schiit M&M Uber.


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## ER4S

imackler said:


> Any guessing on the price? $399 is my guess.


 
  
 $199 or $219. Is that too optimistic?


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## imackler

er4s said:


> $199 or $219. Is that too optimistic?


 
  
 I wish I could see this lower, but the odac and O2 combo are $289.


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## ER4S

imackler said:


> I wish I could see this lower, but the odac and O2 combo are $289.


 
  
 You're right but will it be better that O2+ODAC? I'm not sure.
  
 But after ODAC Rev.b, it seems JDS want to do their own products and Element can be the first attempt for this. So, yes, it can be more than $300.


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## xuan87

er4s said:


> You're right but will it be better that O2+ODAC? I'm not sure.
> 
> But after ODAC Rev.b, it seems JDS want to do their own products and Element can be the first attempt for this. So, yes, it can be more than $300.


 
  
 I won't be surprised if it's better than the O2+ODAC and that's coming from a current user of that combo.
  
 I found the 1st Gen Schiit M&M to already be better than the O2+ODAC but it's ultimately down to user preferences. 
  
 I have JDS Lab's C5D which proved to me that they have the chops to design great sounding DACs and amps, so I have no doubt the Element will be another amazing piece of gear.
  
 PS: BTW it's June! Where's the big reveal?!


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## Schopenhauer

Very interested in this.


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## j3tty

Here's some embarrassing dork complete with vape gear and sunglasses on inside.... dancing next to one...should help for understanding the size..
  
 https://instagram.com/p/3aD6rmD0zu/


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## Schopenhauer

j3tty said:


> Here's some embarrassing dork complete with vape gear and sunglasses on inside.... dancing next to one...should help for understanding the size..
> 
> https://instagram.com/p/3aD6rmD0zu/


 
 Considering who that is, you might be the embarrassed dork.


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## Ultrainferno

I think he knows who that is, that's exactly his point


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## Schopenhauer

ultrainferno said:


> I think he knows who that is, that's exactly his point


 
 Ah, I SEE.


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## j3tty

Exactly


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## dacari

I hope it will work with iems, I'd like to see a wide gain setting.


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## ooolongjohnson

Found this with a quick google search... 
http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=151


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## palermo

Wow, interesting. It used buffer dual LME49600 on 30V rails voltage.


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## ER4S

dacari said:


> I hope it will work with iems, I'd like to see a wide gain setting.


 
  
 I think you can, cause output balance will be 0.1Ω and there'll be 2x gain settings (1.0x and 4.7x). 1.0x gain is good for iems.


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## Ultrainferno

Got sent this link to their picture folder http://www.jdslabs.com/images/products/151/full/
  

 Audiophiles are hard to keep sectrets from


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## jseaber

ultrainferno said:


> Got sent this link to their picture folder http://www.jdslabs.com/images/products/151/full/
> 
> 
> Audiophiles are hard to keep sectrets from


 
  
 Heh, pictures are not done. We were planning to share that picture tomorrow. Today also works.


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## dacari

er4s said:


> I think you can, cause output balance will be 0.1Ω and there'll be 2x gain settings (1.0x and 4.7x). 1.0x gain is good for iems.


 
  
 I just have seen it, yes, it seems ok.


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## DrKC

OK, it's June.  Where's the info? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anybody heard anything?  I'm always interested in whatever they're doing at JDS.  My kind of guys.


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## Ultrainferno

drkc said:


> OK, it's June.  Where's the info? :blink:
> Anybody heard anything?  I'm always interested in whatever they're doing at JDS.  My kind of guys.




The info got leaked, I think. Check our FB


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## notfitforpublic

ultrainferno said:


> The info got leaked, I think. Check our FB




Facebook sucks. Spill the beans already!


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## canthearyou

What's the word?


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## xuan87

Will like to know the DAC chip used. I understand that there is an analog in but is there a digital out?


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## Shaffer

Will this product be available without a DAC? Amp only.


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## ER4S

shaffer said:


> Will this product be available without a DAC? Amp only.


 
  
 No, It's DAC/AMP.


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## mejobloggs

I'm extremely interested. Reeeallly hoping this falls in my price range and I can get it in NZ 
  
 Also, looks nice. Love the design
  
 Eagerly anticipating details and reviews
  
 I've been considering Schiit Magni/Modi stack but with two individual items + cable + postage to NZ it ends up being fairly expensive.
  
 I prefer a single unit for amp/dac, plus shipping could potentially be a lot cheaper


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## loki993

As cool as this sounds I dont see why I would spend much more on this than a M2U and its definitely going to be more.How much more is the question..Im betting a lot.


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## xuan87

loki993 said:


> As cool as this sounds I dont see why I would spend much more on this than a M2U and its definitely going to be more.How much more is the question..Im betting a lot.


 
  
 JDS Labs are well known for churning out low-mid priced gears that give extremely good values for what they cost. I don't see them changing this business model now and I certainly don't expect the JDS Element to be priced ridiculously.
  
 What gives you the idea that this is definitely going to be more than the M2U and even alot more?? Just based on the looks?


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## headhog

Can it be used as a standalone amp?


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## Shaffer

headhog said:


> Can it be used as a standalone amp?




I'd like to know, too.


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## inseconds99

I'm waiting on buying a dac and amp for my hd800 till I know exactly what we're dealing with here. I was about to order either a bifrost and Valhalla 2 or mstage matrix but I won't until information is officially released.


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## mejobloggs

headhog said:


> Can it be used as a standalone amp?


 I don't think anyone knows anything yet. Only released "details" I can find so far are just pretty pictures  

I'm holding off my amp/DAC purchasing until this is released


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## mejobloggs

A comment on their Facebook page says (in regards to specs)

JDS Labs, Inc.
1.5W @ 32 ohm. Triple 0's in all distortion measurements.


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## inseconds99

I am holding out on a new Dac and Amp on my HD800 as there are tons of new products coming out this month. Here is what I am looking at for my HD800's as I decided today that I want to stick with a Solid State AMP. Will update the post once I decide and I will post a review of whatever I choose.
  
 1. NFB-3AMP + ODAC
 2 .M-Stage HPA-3U
 3. The Element JDSLabs


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## mejobloggs

inseconds99 said:


> ............ 1. NFB-3AMP + ODAC
> 2 .M-Stage HPA-3U
> 3. The Element JDSLabs


 
  
 Hadn't heard of those, thanks


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## xuan87

shaffer said:


> I'd like to know, too.


 
  
 Earlier leaked specs mentioned the Element accepting an analog line in, so that means yes, it can be used as an amp only.
  
 However, I didn't see any mention of a digital out, hence my initial question on whether the Element can be used as a DAC only.


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## headhog

So what are chances JDS also selling an Element just headphone amp to make it a bit cheaper for us guys who already have a DAC.


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## canthearyou

headhog said:


> So what are chances JDS also selling an Element just headphone amp to make it a bit cheaper for us guys who already have a DAC.




Probably slim. You can always get an 02.


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## obsidyen

It looks really sick. I hope it performs well too.


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## s0ckpupp3t

Subbed.  And it's 6/13 already.  Spill the beans JDS!


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## headhog




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## Shaffer

My hope is that it's not just an O2 and an ODAC repackaged to meet the current parts/design constraints, as the original design doesn't allow for parts substitutions. I really like the Bauhaus look of the product. The knob is great.


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## imackler

Details are up: https://www.jdslabs.com/products/151/the-element-by-jds-labs
  
 Preorder at $349. 
  
 Ane here is a link to the blog: http://blog.jdslabs.com/


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## s0ckpupp3t

imackler said:


> Details are up: https://www.jdslabs.com/products/151/the-element-by-jds-labs
> 
> Preorder at $349.
> 
> Ane here is a link to the blog: http://blog.jdslabs.com/


 
 I'm liking what I'm reading and very much looking forward seeing how well the Element performs in the real world.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 One request to JDS: Please post pictures with a banana for scale. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Also Quick question to JDS: the headphone jack is 1/4", right?  Will a variant with a 1/8" jack be produced?
  
 Thanks.


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## maverickronin

Looks pretty good.  It's nice to have something that address the ergonomic shortcomings of the O2 while keeping the same design philosophy.
  
 Crossfeed and a line out for the DAC would be nice though.


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## cel4145

maverickronin said:


> Looks pretty good.  It's nice to have something that address the ergonomic shortcomings of the O2 while keeping the same design philosophy.
> 
> Crossfeed and a line out for the DAC would be nice though.




+1

I wish it had pre-amp out instead of analog inputs. If the DAC is good (and the measurements are), then the analog inputs seem much less useful to me. But I realize that's a bit harder to design, whereas the inputs are an easy add on.


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## Schopenhauer

Is $349 the set price or only the preorder price? If the latter, any info as to how much it might jump?


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## jseaber

s0ckpupp3t said:


> I'm liking what I'm reading and very much looking forward seeing how well the Element performs in the real world.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Unfortunately, I did not bring a banana to work today. The last one in the kitchen was going brown. If you don't mind a brown banana, I'll arrange this tomorrow!
  
 Yes, the headphone jack is a 1/4" type. Since 1/8" adapters are so prevelant and often supplied with headphones and IEMs, it's unlikely we'll pursue a 3.5mm output.
  


cel4145 said:


> +1
> 
> I wish it had pre-amp out instead of analog inputs. If the DAC is good (and the measurements are), then the analog inputs seem much less useful to me. But I realize that's a bit harder to design, whereas the inputs are an easy add on.


 
  
 This was a difficult decision to make as lead engineer.
  
 Notice that the rear side of The Element is full: power input, power button, gain button, USB input, and a single set of RCA jacks. We'd love to have added optical or S/PDIF input and an additional set of RCA DAC line outputs. But there's no room! The minimalistic enclosure requires a carefully selected features-set. Without delving too much into the business end, analog input is the best path.
  
*The Element is designed as a reference amp first and foremost. *Its DAC should be considered an added bonus.
  

Removing the DAC has a relatively small cost impact (compare C5D and C5).
DAC feature-sets and dynamic range will continue to advance over the next few years.
Configuring jacks as RCA input expands future input capability of The Element
  
 In other words, RCA input means The Element can be used with future DACs with much greater flexibility. This will allow you to connect DACs with greater input and output capabilities.


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## Ethereal Sound

So the elements is designed firstly as an amp, that makes me much more inclined to purchase it! I'm no engineer so I don't really understand all the specifications on how powerful this amp is but would you say that this amplifier would easily be able to power any headphone on the market? (including the HE-6) 
 Also, when you said that removing the DAC has a relatively small cost impact, are you saying that there is an option to buy the elements without the DAC built into it?


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## Shaffer

Does the Element have a lot in common with the O2?


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## jseaber

ethereal sound said:


> So the elements is designed firstly as an amp, that makes me much more inclined to purchase it! I'm no engineer so I don't really understand all the specifications on how powerful this amp is but would you say that this amplifier would easily be able to power any headphone on the market? (including the HE-6)
> Also, when you said that removing the DAC has a relatively small cost impact, are you saying that there is an option to buy the elements without the DAC built into it?


 
  
 Yes, The Element can drive HE-6. We've hit 120dB in the office with Audeze LCD-XCs (completely unsafe for ears).
  
 Removing the DAC has too little cost savings to justify an amp only edition. C5 will likely be discontinued in 2016; amp+DACs are more popular.


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## Ethereal Sound

jseaber said:


> Yes, The Element can drive HE-6. We've hit 120dB in the office with Audeze LCD-XCs (completely unsafe for ears).
> 
> Removing the DAC has too little cost savings to justify an amp only edition. C5 will likely be discontinued in 2016; amp+DACs are more popular.


 
  
 Well that makes the element infinitely more tempting since it now appears to be a great performing amp for what I assume is a very good price.


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## Shaffer

shaffer said:


> Does the Element have a lot in common with the O2?




I was hoping for an answer. In one of your Youtube videos you discuss the production constraints, not the least of which is an adherence to the original O2, even though some of its components may not be available. On a purely intuitive level, it would make sense that this amplifier is a slightly re-worked O2 geared to match the current manufacturing environment. Is it?


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## imackler

jseaber said:


> ...amp+DACs are more popular.


 
 And yet headfiers seem to complain all the time about the difficulty of integrating the two well in a single unit. Maybe the technology has gotten better... I've kind of wondered where the market was going. So many people carry a stack, though its true it seems less common on headfi than they used to be.


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## jseaber

shaffer said:


> I was hoping for an answer. In one of your Youtube videos you discuss the production constraints, not the least of which is an adherence to the original O2, even though some of its components may not be available. On a purely intuitive level, it would make sense that this amplifier is a slightly re-worked O2 geared to match the current manufacturing environment. Is it?


 
  
 Sorry--too many messages today. O2 is still comfortably in production. The power jack difficulty was resolved in 2013. All components are available without constraint at this time. We did produce an O2 SMT derivative in 2013 for experimentation. The project was abandoned, so as to avoid licensing upsets. Additionally, there was no benefit to such a project. Performance was the same, but could not be improved. O2 is thermally limited by its chipset.
  
 The Element uses a similar amplification topology (pre-amplification --> attenuation --> buffered output). Similarities end there, as the amp consists of a completely different chipset with optimal voltage planning to accommodate true line-level input and significantly higher output power. The Element uses microcontroller and relay based power management, and muting during startup and shutdown. See also _Circuitry _and_ Benchmark Performance_ in the release article.


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## Ethereal Sound

Well, I'll just be waiting around for impressions now!


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## imackler

jseaber, Is there going to be a tour?


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## inseconds99

jseaber said:


> Sorry--too many messages today. O2 is still comfortably in production. The power jack difficulty was resolved in 2013. All components are available without constraint at this time. We did produce an O2 SMT derivative in 2013 for experimentation. The project was abandoned, so as to avoid licensing upsets. Additionally, there was no benefit to such a project. Performance was the same, but could not be improved. O2 is thermally limited by its chipset.
> 
> The Element uses a similar amplification topology (pre-amplification --> attenuation --> buffered output). Similarities end there, as the amp consists of a completely different chipset with optimal voltage planning to accommodate true line-level input and significantly higher output power. The Element uses microcontroller and relay based power management, and muting during startup and shutdown. See also _Circuitry _and_ Benchmark Performance_ in the release article.


 
 Any chance that you have tested this amp/dac with a HD800? If so, how did you feel it complimented the headphones? Do you feel that this provides enough power and will have good synergy? There are many out there that feel the o2/odac did not perform well with the HD800's. Some feel that it became too cold and harsh? Would you say this dac/amp is transparent or maybe leaning towards a warm signature?


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## jseaber

inseconds99 said:


> Any chance that you have tested this amp/dac with a HD800? If so, how did you feel it complimented the headphones? Do you feel that this provides enough power and will have good synergy? There are many out there that feel the o2/odac did not perform well with the HD800's. Some feel that it became too cold and harsh? Would you say this dac/amp is transparent or maybe leaning towards a warm signature?


 
  
 Over the years, I've found it best to keep my personal bias to myself. Subjective results are as important as the objective measurements and I'd rather leave our users and reviewers with a blank impression!
  
 The Element is a different beast for sure. 
  


imackler said:


> jseaber, Is there going to be a tour?


 
  
 Tour of what sort?


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## mejobloggs

Looks like a great product 
  
 Probably about twice the power than I'll ever need heh. I think I'm back to considering other options now as my budget is only around $200-250us


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## inseconds99

jseaber said:


> Over the years, I've found it best to keep my personal bias to myself. Subjective results are as important as the objective measurements and I'd rather leave our users and reviewers with a blank impression!
> 
> The Element is a different beast for sure.
> 
> ...


 
 I appreciate that, how about just for power. Do you believe The Element can power the HD800 and its over 600ohm spikes? I really want to preorder this amp/dac but I just want to make sure it can fully power my 800's first.


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## jseaber

inseconds99 said:


> I appreciate that, how about just for power. Do you believe The Element can power the HD800 and its over 600ohm spikes? I really want to preorder this amp/dac but I just want to make sure it can fully power my 800's first.


 
  
 Yes, The Element can provide 140mW into 600 ohms, while HD-800 needs about 32mW to hit 115 dB:
  
 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1****TwWffXKld7PgHt5wZOP7KnBVO6SyvG9yZEJ-smI/edit#gid=1006269980


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## s0ckpupp3t

I would like to draw everyone's attention to a post by JDS in another thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/647838/jds-labs-c5-c5d-pg96-portable-amp-amp-dac-appreciation-discussion-thread/3105#post_11481832, and I quote: 
  


jseaber said:


> Perhaps we should ask Head-Fi to name future products.


 
  
 I don't believe the Head-Fi community was consulted in the naming of this product...
  
 My proposal at the time was the "Over 9000."  H20Fidelity suggested  "JDS Dude 11"


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## cel4145

jseaber said:


> This was a difficult decision to make as lead engineer.
> 
> Notice that the rear side of The Element is full: power input, power button, gain button, USB input, and a single set of RCA jacks. We'd love to have added optical or S/PDIF input and an additional set of RCA DAC line outputs. But there's no room! The minimalistic enclosure requires a carefully selected features-set. Without delving too much into the business end, analog input is the best path.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the explanation. 

So good for a headphone listening station, but not a good choice for a computer desktop setup where someone might want (or eventually want) speakers, and that's potentially a lot of people. For instance, check out the "computer rig" thread on Head-Fi, and look at the image gallery: http://www.head-fi.org/t/397869/lightbox/position/3108 (scroll up to see the images in the thread). That's why I got rid of the ODAC and O2 I got from you guys.


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## jseaber

cel4145 said:


> Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> So good for a headphone listening station, but not a good choice for a computer desktop setup where someone might want (or eventually want) speakers, and that's potentially a lot of people. For instance, check out the "computer rig" thread on Head-Fi, and look at the image gallery: http://www.head-fi.org/t/397869/lightbox/position/3108 (scroll up to see the images in the thread). That's why I got rid of the ODAC and O2 I got from you guys.


 
  
 If you insist...
  
 The Element can be configured with DAC line output at no additional cost. We placed jumpers on the bottom of the board for this purpose. This configuration disallows analog input, and you'll need to turn the volume knob to 0 to "mute" your headphones. Simply mention your special request during checkout and we'll accommodate.


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## jimvibe

jseaber said:


> If you insist...
> 
> The Element can be configured with DAC line output at no additional cost. We placed jumpers on the bottom of the board for this purpose. This configuration disallows analog input, and you'll need to turn the volume knob to 0 to "mute" your headphones. Simply mention your special request during checkout and we'll accommodate.


 

 Is there a way to retrofit the gain switch to switch between digital/analog input instead? There doesn't seem to be a switch unless I am missing something, so I guess when there is a usb connection the analog in will not be used? Button would be convenient.


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## cel4145

jseaber said:


> If you insist...
> 
> The Element can be configured with DAC line output at no additional cost. We placed jumpers on the bottom of the board for this purpose. This configuration disallows analog input, and you'll need to turn the volume knob to 0 to "mute" your headphones. Simply mention your special request during checkout and we'll accommodate.




That's good to know. Is this something a user could change on their own? Or would it violate the warranty?


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## UNOE

I think the Banana was a joke. There is no way that can help reference the size. Every banana in a bundle is a different length.


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## jseaber

cel4145 said:


> That's good to know. Is this something a user could change on their own? Or would it violate the warranty?


 
  
 It's possible with basic DIY skill. Element's screws are hidden, so it will be a task to access the board. It's much easier performed during initial assembly.
  


jimvibe said:


> Is there a way to retrofit the gain switch to switch between digital/analog input instead? There doesn't seem to be a switch unless I am missing something, so I guess when there is a usb connection the analog in will not be used? Button would be convenient.


 
  
 There is not, although the idea was considered during development. Toggling a jack to serve as either output _or_ input is nonstandard, and would lead to confusion. Better to make a jack serve a dedicated function. Thanks for the feedback.


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## jimvibe

jseaber said:


> It's possible with basic DIY skill. Element's screws are hidden, so it will be a task to access the board. It's much easier performed during initial assembly.
> 
> 
> There is not, although the idea was considered during development. Toggling a jack to serve as either output _or_ input is nonstandard, and would lead to confusion. Better to make a jack serve a dedicated function. Thanks for the feedback.


 
  
 Ah, I mean switching between digital in and analog in. I have a CD player I would like to use separate from a computer and switch between it and DAC easily.


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## xuan87

schopenhauer said:


> Is $349 the set price or only the preorder price? If the latter, any info as to how much it might jump?


 
  
 I am interested in this too. Most probably getting it, just a question of when.
  


jseaber said:


> If you insist...
> 
> The Element can be configured with DAC line output at no additional cost. We placed jumpers on the bottom of the board for this purpose. This configuration disallows analog input, and you'll need to turn the volume knob to 0 to "mute" your headphones. Simply mention your special request during checkout and we'll accommodate.


 
  
 YES! I was just about to ask if this is possible since I know you have a similar option for your C5D (digital out or analog in). So it's either analog in OR digital out? Will the digital out happen via the RCA jacks too?
  
 This will be a good complement/alternative to the Liquid Carbon.
  
 Just an aside: I think the reason why so many people want the digital out is because they foresee that the Element is not going to be powerful enough for the really really demanding headphones. For my need though, it's sufficient. Just that I have no other DAC, but I have another amp, so I prefer the digital out too.


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## s0ckpupp3t

unoe said:


> I think the Banana was a joke. There is no way that can help reference the size. Every banana in a bundle is a different length.


 
  
 I'm serious.  I thought everyone knew that the banana is a standard of measurement on the internet.  The all knowing Google says so.
  
 Variability in banana size is accounted for by measuring the measurement banana against other bananas.  Simple.


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## s0ckpupp3t

More serious questions for JDS though:
  
 1) Does the Element DAC run in asynchronous USB mode?
  
 2) If so is it possible to special order it with the DAC running in synchronous USB mode?  I have a C5D and I had to get the firmware flashed to run in synch mode because it was causing drop outs and stuttering when running on my Windows laptop.  It should be possible since if I'm not mistaken, the C5D and Element share the same DAC chip.


----------



## jseaber

s0ckpupp3t said:


> More serious questions for JDS though:
> 
> 1) Does the Element DAC run in asynchronous USB mode?
> 
> 2) If so is it possible to special order it with the DAC running in synchronous USB mode?  I have a C5D and I had to get the firmware flashed to run in synch mode because it was causing drop outs and stuttering when running on my Windows laptop.  It should be possible since if I'm not mistaken, the C5D and Element share the same DAC chip.


 
  
 1) The Element runs in adaptive mode. We regret the supposedly harmless activation of asynch in C5D. It turns out that asynchronous mode is poorly supported under certain operating systems. Jitter is measurably equal in adaptive mode, and compatibility is significantly improved.
  
 2) I should have read this question first. See above. C5D uses SA9027; Element uses SA9023. The only difference between these two chips is support for asynchronous operation. Thus, we chose SA9023 for The Element.


xuan87 said:


> I am interested in this too. Most probably getting it, just a question of when.


 
  
 Current price is the final MSRP also.
  
  


xuan87 said:


> YES! I was just about to ask if this is possible since I know you have a similar option for your C5D (digital out or analog in). So it's either analog in OR digital out? Will the digital out happen via the RCA jacks too?


 
  
 Correct: RCA jacks can be configured to serve as a digital output instead of analog input.
  
 Element packs more power than most headphones will ever need, including many planar magnetics.


----------



## Schopenhauer

Glad to hear $349 is the final MSRP. This DAC/amp is very tempting. Would use it to drive an HE-500 and LCD-2.2 primarily. Given the output power, it should easily drive those headphones to the dB-levels at which they're measured.


----------



## xuan87

Just want to check with anyone here, is there a difference in RCA cables used for transmitting digital signals as compared to for transmitting analog signals? Only reason I asked is because when surfing the emotiva site, I saw that they have a digital coaxial RCA cable as well as a RCA cable. The big difference between the two is that for the digital coaxial RCA cable, it has only 1 conductor instead (so no grounding) while for the normal RCA cable, it has 2 conductors (one for grounding, one for signal).


----------



## wim1983

Besides that DAC + headamp function, it's perfect already for me, but I just need one more function, that is preamp, the DAC to RCA analog out to power amp, where the knob can be used as volume controller, is this possible?


----------



## Solrighal

Does anyone know what the output power into 300 Ohms is? The site (for some weird reason) doesn't say.


----------



## puskuruk

Element looks like a hi-fi equipment not reference equipment like o2+odac.


----------



## Solrighal

puskuruk said:


> Element looks like a hi-fi equipment not reference equipment like o2+odac.




Element looks like a sophisticated piece of Bauhausian design rather than some knocked-up-in-a-shed piece of equipment like O2+ODAC.

There, fixed that for you  

No disrespect to the O2, Nwavguy or JDS Labs. I love the O2.


----------



## puskuruk

solrighal said:


> Element looks like a sophisticated piece of Bauhausian design rather than some knocked-up-in-a-shed piece of equipment like O2+ODAC.
> 
> There, fixed that for you
> 
> No disrespect to the O2, Nwavguy or JDS Labs. I love the O2.




Im using o2 too and I love it its very good solution for my reference setup. Im looking for amp which is better than o2 for 2 years.


----------



## wim1983

Anybody has words on the new SA9023 controller and DAC chip  PCM5102A? It should be pretty much identical to ODAC I assume?


----------



## canthearyou

Gonna order one Friday.


----------



## xuan87

wim1983 said:


> Anybody has words on the new SA9023 controller and DAC chip  PCM5102A? It should be pretty much identical to ODAC I assume?


 
  
 If I remember right, the ODAC doesn't use a PCM chip but a ESS one. Feel free to correct me if my info is wrong.
  
 However, the JDS C5D does use a PCM5102A chip and a SA9027 controller. The implementation on the Element is probably different compared to the C5D since space is no longer a big consideration.
  
 While I know that both the ODAC and Element both measures to the point of being transparent, I'm still curious for anyone's input on how different they sound audibly, if at all. 
  
@jseaber I saw on the blog that someone commented the RCA jacks can be configured for BOTH analog in and digital out. I thought all along that it's one or the other, not both functions. Can you clarify? Thanks.


----------



## xuan87

Michael Mercer posted up a video of him shaking his buns while listening to an Ether paired with a prototype of the Element. The Element looks bigger than I had imagined. I was thrown off by the scale due to the volume knob being unusually big. 
  
 I would LOVE to hear that combination. I listened to the Ether connected to a OPPO HA-1 recently and immediately fell in love with the Ether. Best headphones I've heard in a long while.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Nathan will be reviewing The Element on Headfonia soon


----------



## Schopenhauer

ultrainferno said:


> Nathan will be reviewing The Element on Headfonia soon



This is good news! I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## loki993

xuan87 said:


> JDS Labs are well known for churning out low-mid priced gears that give extremely good values for what they cost. I don't see them changing this business model now and I certainly don't expect the JDS Element to be priced ridiculously.
> 
> What gives you the idea that this is definitely going to be more than the M2U and even alot more?? Just based on the looks?




Haven't poked in for a while...I was simply basing it on the cost of the O2..the O2 is a hundred dollars..this is supposed to be better than the O2 so it couldn't possibly be cheaper. 

Edit that though I didn't know it was a DAC as well. 


imackler said:


> Details are up: https://www.jdslabs.com/products/151/the-element-by-jds-labs
> 
> Preorder at $349.
> 
> Ane here is a link to the blog: http://blog.jdslabs.com/




Interesting so only 50 bucks more than the Schitt stack......looks like we may have a contender.


----------



## jseaber

xuan87 said:


> If I remember right, the ODAC doesn't use a PCM chip but a ESS one. Feel free to correct me if my info is wrong.
> 
> However, the JDS C5D does use a PCM5102A chip and a SA9027 controller. The implementation on the Element is probably different compared to the C5D since space is no longer a big consideration.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Fair question - Comment has been updated with additional detail: Enabling DAC output technically leaves analog input possible (just as with O2+ODAC). DAC output performance is normal in this configuration, but analog input usage is discouraged as THD will increase.
  
 Therefore, the DAC line output configuration should be considered exclusively as an output jack.


----------



## inseconds99

ultrainferno said:


> Nathan will be reviewing The Element on Headfonia soon


 
 Need this in my life asap lol.


----------



## obsidyen

Yeah, I'm interested in this amp but it'd be really nice to see some impressions and reviews before buying.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

obsidyen said:


> Yeah, I'm interested in this amp but it'd be really nice to see some impressions and reviews before buying.


 
 Same


----------



## headwhacker

I like the design, clean yet elegant. I think the power and gain switch is better off on front together with headphone jack because both switches will be used a lot and is more convenient being located on the front panel. Should also look nice in silver color. 

If this has a coax/optical input even on a single shared port this is going to be a hell of a desktop unit. The only headphone amp/dac anyone could need to drive any headphone out there.

By using an AC power adapter, does it means the design is derived from O2? It sure bested O2 in power output and measurements.

Kudos John


----------



## mejobloggs

Anyone seen any reviews yet?


----------



## headwhacker

mejobloggs said:


> Anyone seen any reviews yet?


 
 Won't even ship until the 30th.


----------



## HotIce

I like!


----------



## canthearyou

I'm gonna get this and compare against my M-Stage HPA2.


----------



## White Lotus

Super interested to see how this will play with planars. The specs are reading pretty well!


----------



## chococya96

Been using O2+ODAC combo (early version, not the newest one) with AKG Annie/K712 for over two years now and this new amp+DAC intrigues me a lot.
  
 Though I'm not sure if it's worth the replacement. Hopefully someone can review this promising product and compare with the old/current one.


----------



## White Lotus

I'm trying to figure out exactly how big that volume knob is.. It looks huge!


----------



## david408

white lotus said:


> I'm trying to figure out exactly how big that volume knob is.. It looks huge!


 

 John mentioned it was 3" in diameter.
  
 Waiting for the reviews to start rolling in before I pull the trigger on The Element.


----------



## canthearyou

Order placed. I can't wait!


----------



## Mihaidmg

Yup, same here , i just preorder it. Wanted to place an order for O2+Odac and i saw Element. I have Akg K712 headphones, hope the DAC from Element is the same as good as ODAC. I am waiting for reviews, tomorrow will be the first shippment.


----------



## Mistershifter

Just pre-ordered mine. Hoping it does well with my LCD-X's.


----------



## YtseJamer

mistershifter said:


> Just pre-ordered mine. Hoping it does well with my LCD-X's.


 
  
 Good choice


----------



## Mudokon

Has anyone received a shipment notification yet? It's June 30th.


----------



## jseaber

mudokon said:


> Has anyone received a shipment notification yet? It's June 30th.


 
  
 Most preorders shipped today. Elements with special requests (DAC line output, etc.) will ship tomorrow.


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

jseaber said:


> Most preorders shipped today. Elements with special requests (DAC line output, etc.) will ship tomorrow.


----------



## canthearyou

jseaber said:


> Most preorders shipped today. Elements with special requests (DAC line output, etc.) will ship tomorrow.




Sweet!


----------



## Mudokon

The instruction manual is up in PDF format: http://www.jdslabs.com/pdf/instructions-the-element.pdf


----------



## canthearyou

mudokon said:


> The instruction manual is up in PDF format: http://www.jdslabs.com/pdf/instructions-the-element.pdf



Steps 4 and 5 are the same.


EDIT: I thought they were.


----------



## neurofone

Mine will arrive tomorrow !!   It will be paired with my SE846 IEMs.


----------



## Llloyd

Mine is coming today as well.  I'll post some initial impressions.


----------



## Schopenhauer

neurofone said:


> Mine will arrive tomorrow !!   It will be paired with my SE846 IEMs.


 
  


llloyd said:


> Mine is coming today as well.  I'll post some initial impressions.


----------



## Llloyd

Smooth, clean, pretty nice detail for the price point.  The design is great which can't really be appreciated on my mess of a desk.  Volume @ 9 o'clock on low gain seems to be a little louder than my normal listening volume for the TH-900, so it seems to me The Element would have no problem driving any headphone.
  
 I was a little upset to see the wall wart in the box since it doesn't really fit anywhere in my desk setup. It just takes up too much space since I already have two fish tanks in my office. I had to do some silly stuff to get it plugged in.  I would describe the sound as more closed compared to my normal setup, which is ~10x more expensive so that's to be expected.  Some people may find they prefer that sort of sound though because it does have its place.  I could see LCD owners in particular liking the Element.
  
 So it seems like a good place to start for LCD2 / HE-5xx and comparable headphones.  The USB cable seems to have a ground loop which I found very cool and will probably switch out with my primary DAC's standard cable.
  
 As far as size, this thing is much bigger than I expected which explains the power of the amp. It's about the size of 2 galaxy notes side by side or whatever other big phone (iphone 6?) you can think of if you're not familiar with that.  This makes the volume knob quite large.  The knob feels very, very satisfying with no resistance or noise. 
  
  
*Impressions*
  
 It's hard to go into detail with the mids / highs / lows because with this price point it's a little hard for me to compare down from my current setup as opposed to across from other pieces of gear, so I can only really compare to from memory which I will do briefly due to the lack of immedate results.  I would say vs something like the Bifrost / Asgard (both original versions) I previously owned, I would put this slightly below that in terms of pure sound.  Where I'd describe the Asgard as slightly thin and with an air in its soundstage, I would describe The Element as intimate and full.  Just different flavors there.
  
 Overall I would probably rate them equally considering the great design of The Element, super clean dac, price point, and the fact it's all in one with a small desk footprint is a big plus to me.  I bought this specifically for school / work, as well as for late night tv / music / film when I'm lounging in the other room.  Seems perfect for that.  OFC it's not going to bring the most out of any mid-high range and up headphones, but neither is anything close to this price range that I'm aware of.
  
 All said and done I applaud JDS for this product.  It's a wonderful design with sound anyone but the most demanding audiophiles will be pleased with.  For the majority of head-fi users, I would recommend as an all in one.  A nice clean neutral sound that is sure to satisfy most.  Unimposing.  Judging from the gear that I've heard, it's a great buy at the price point. Great job guys.


----------



## canthearyou

I cancelled my plans to go to Traverse City. This way I can be here when it gets delivered tomorrow.


----------



## canthearyou

Of ********* course USPS would fail yet again! What a completely worthless business! Now my amp is stuck a few miles from my house until Monday. I am gonna ruin that workers day as soon as they open the doors on Monday! Don't offer 2 day Priority if you are unable to deliver.


----------



## Mihaidmg

Mine will get delivered on 6,  3 more days. I am so excited. Well i wanted DAC ouput too, but i didn't saw any feature for that on JDs website, i only could choose what type of plug do i need for power . Well i allready have a soundcard for desktop , so is not that a big deal. Thanks for review Llloyd


----------



## HotIce

I wish AC powered devices like this, had an DC port with an optional battery pack attaching to it, so that people can move around without being anchored by an outlet cable.


----------



## xuan87

mihaidmg said:


> Mine will get delivered on 6,  3 more days. I am so excited. Well i wanted DAC ouput too, but i didn't saw any feature for that on JDs website, i only could choose what type of plug do i need for power . Well i allready have a soundcard for desktop , so is not that a big deal. Thanks for review Llloyd




You can request for a DAC output of you want, through the RAC ports.


----------



## White Lotus

mistershifter said:


> Just pre-ordered mine. Hoping it does well with my LCD-X's.


 
  
 I'm also keen to know how it handles planars (Audeze specifically)


----------



## david408

Llloyd, thanks for your initial impressions!
  
 Would love to see a review of The Element vs the O2+ODAC REV B.


----------



## Mihaidmg

xuan87 said:


> You can request for a DAC output of you want, through the RAC ports.


 
 Already received mine , it was too late when i saw that you can do that, can we change it by ourselves? I heard something that is a jumper on the board and we can do it ourselves?


----------



## Schopenhauer

Anyone willing to post a picture of the knob's glow?


----------



## Llloyd

schopenhauer said:


> Anyone willing to post a picture of the knob's glow?


 
  
 edit:
 Disregard original post.  Here.


----------



## Schopenhauer

llloyd said:


> schopenhauer said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone willing to post a picture of the knob's glow?
> ...


 
 It conveys the idea nonetheless. Thanks! I like that JDS went with white light. Seems to go well with the black chassis.


----------



## Llloyd

The light is nice and it's a great looking piece of work.
  
 Additionally I never heard the O2 and I know the element uses the odac.  This explans the clean, linear sound that those big fans of the O2 are always talking about.
  
 At first I was unable to get it to work with my Galaxy S5 through USB OTG to the power needs of the odac.  For those that might have this issue I solved the problem by using a powered usb hub as a medium.


----------



## compddd

xuan87 said:


> You can request for a DAC output of you want, through the RAC ports.


 
  
 Forgive my ignorance, I'm new to the Hi-Fi world. Why would someone want a DAC output?


----------



## dullknives

compddd said:


> Forgive my ignorance, I'm new to the Hi-Fi world. Why would someone want a DAC output?


 
 so they can use the DAC from the element and send that signal to a separate amplifier or powered speakers.


----------



## Llloyd

Seems a little strange to get a product like this just to line it through the odac which is seperately available? I guess if you are using it on the go but have a better amp at home.


----------



## Mistershifter

Thank you mail man!


----------



## saxon48

mistershifter said:


> Thank you mail man!


 

 Looks great! Nice and simple packaging.


----------



## wim1983

llloyd said:


> Seems a little strange to get a product like this just to line it through the odac which is seperately available? I guess if you are using it on the go but have a better amp at home.


 
 Not strange at all, I use ODAC RCA line out to my power amp, I bet a lot users would like to have a complete DAC + headamp + preamp unit, though I plan to use the headphone output to feed to power amp, thus utilize headamp as preamp, hmm...I'm curious how it works...


----------



## Llloyd

Ah true makes sense to line out to a speaker system from odac.  Slipped my mind.


----------



## headwhacker

The best part of the Element is the amp. It would be a waste just to use it as a DAC, which for that purpose a standalone ODAC fits the putpose better.


----------



## Llloyd

headwhacker said:


> The best part of the Element is the amp. It would be a waste just to use it as a DAC, which for that purpose a standalone ODAC fits the putpose better.


 
  
  
 That was my original thought but if you wanted to line out to a speaker system when you're not listening to headphones then why not.


----------



## canthearyou

Received The Element 7 days after ordering thanks to the awesome USPS!

Looks awesome! Actually smaller than I was thinking. Smaller than my M-Stage HPA2 and half the weight.

It sounds great pushing X2s. I know they are an easy to drive HP. I'm looking to try a few others. 

My only issue(which I know JDS will take care of) is I received someone's special request for DAC out instead of source in. 
My mistake. I did not know my source was not working. All is good.

P.S. Matrix M-Stage HPA2 w/2 extra op-amps for sale in classifieds.


----------



## sheldaze

canthearyou said:


> Looks awesome! Actually smaller than I was thinking. Smaller than my M-Stage HPA2 and half the weight.
> 
> It sounds great pushing X2s. I know they are an easy to drive HP. I'm looking to try a few others.


 
 Keep the impressions coming!
  
 It's good to know that it works with the easy to drive headphones. And if you can later drive something that's a little harder, that would be good to know too. I would personally be looking for an all-around headphone amp.


----------



## Llloyd

sheldaze said:


> Keep the impressions coming!
> 
> It's good to know that it works with the easy to drive headphones. And if you can later drive something that's a little harder, that would be good to know too. I would personally be looking for an all-around headphone amp.


 
  
 I know very well it would have enough power for anything other than extreme needs (HE-6 and the like). You need not worry.  1.1W @ 32 ohm is plenty.  This thing gets loud fast.  Standard planar headphones like Audeze, Hifiman 4xx/5xx, mr speakers will not be a problem.


----------



## canthearyou

Thread is quiet. Hopefully everyone is enjoying this beauty.


----------



## headwhacker

llloyd said:


> I know very well it would have enough power for anything other than extreme needs (HE-6 and the like). You need not worry.  1.1W @ 32 ohm is plenty.  This thing gets loud fast.  Standard planar headphones like Audeze, Hifiman 4xx/5xx, mr speakers will not be a problem.


 
  
 That's pretty much 99.9% of the headphone available today. (HE is the lone exception)


----------



## sheldaze

llloyd said:


> I know very well it would have enough power for anything other than extreme needs (HE-6 and the like). You need not worry.  1.1W @ 32 ohm is plenty.  This thing gets loud fast.  Standard planar headphones like Audeze, Hifiman 4xx/5xx, mr speakers will not be a problem.


 

 It all sounds very promising. I have a couple of very specific headphone amplifiers that I am quite happy with, and I am now looking for a general use amplifier - especially for the case I get to borrow a headphone to sample.
 I'm still in the 1-2 week queue to receive my Element. So the impressions help me


----------



## neurofone

Just got mine.  Excellent build quality and volume knob.  Looks great.  
   
 Dead silent!  No music playing and turning the volume all the way up, I do not hear any hiss from my SE846 !   That's pretty amazing right there.
  
 Going to listen for a while...
  
 https://imgur.com/a/8SopQ


----------



## ER4S

neurofone said:


> Just got mine.  Excellent build quality and volume knob.  Looks great.
> 
> Dead silent!  No music playing and turning the volume all the way up, I do not hear any hiss from my SE846 !   That's pretty amazing right there.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It looks great. Would you please take photo of C5 and Element together?


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

neurofone said:


> Just got mine.  Excellent build quality and volume knob.  Looks great.
> 
> Dead silent!  No music playing and turning the volume all the way up, I do not hear any hiss from my SE846 !   That's pretty amazing right there.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a C5D.  Would love to hear your thoughts comparing the C5D and Element.


----------



## neurofone

s0ckpupp3t said:


> I have a C5D.  Would love to hear your thoughts comparing the C5D and Element.


 
  
 Initial impression is wider soundstage with The Element, tighter bass, better fine grain control of the volume with the knob which I really like.   Sadly it lacks the bass-boost option that the C5D has, so you will miss that if you use it.    Like the C5D, no detectable channel imbalance.
  
 Just noticed:  the Element is a fingerprint and dust magnet !   Those with OCD be warned, you'll be wiping it often.


----------



## neurofone

er4s said:


> It looks great. Would you please take photo of C5 and Element together?


 
  
 Sure, here's an album:
  
 https://imgur.com/a/8SopQ


----------



## ER4S

neurofone said:


> Sure, here's an album:
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/8SopQ


 
  
 Thanks mate. It's the most good-loking product that I've seen in recent times.


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

neurofone said:


> Initial impression is wider soundstage with The Element, tighter bass, better fine grain control of the volume with the knob which I really like.   Sadly it lacks the bass-boost option that the C5D has, so you will miss that if you use it.    Like the C5D, no detectable channel imbalance.
> 
> Just noticed:  the Element is a fingerprint and dust magnet !   Those with OCD be warned, you'll be wiping it often.


 
 Thanks neurofone!
  
 I'm more of a fun listener than a analytical one so I will probably end up missing the bass boost on the C5D, which it does oh so well.
  
 My current kit is distinctly mid-fi with a Fidelio X2 and Momentum M2 wired.  Sounds like if I can exercise some self control (questionable), I'll be able to hold off until when/if I get more power hungry cans.


----------



## neurofone

s0ckpupp3t said:


> Thanks neurofone!
> 
> I'm more of a fun listener than a analytical one so I will probably end up missing the bass boost on the C5D, which it does so well.
> 
> My current kit is distinctly mid-fi with an Fidelio X2 and Momentum M2 wired.  Sounds like I if I exercise some self control (questionable), I can hold off when/if I get more power hungry cans.


 
  
 Yep I think that's a wise move.  (I did not exercise much needed self-control) 
  
 It will be here for when I get more power hungry cans, as you said.


----------



## canthearyou

s0ckpupp3t said:


> Thanks neurofone!
> 
> I'm more of a fun listener than a analytical one so I will probably end up missing the bass boost on the C5D, which it does oh so well.
> 
> My current kit is distinctly mid-fi with a Fidelio X2 and Momentum M2 wired.  Sounds like if I can exercise some self control (questionable), I'll be able to hold off until when/if I get more power hungry cans.




I think it sounds amazing with my X2s. I will be trying it with the HE400i soon.


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

canthearyou said:


> I think it sounds amazing with my X2s. I will be trying it with the HE400i soon.


 
 LA LA LA LA LA.  I CAN'T HEAR YOU...


----------



## Mistershifter

Got my LCD-X's today. Time to try these babies together!


----------



## Llloyd

s0ckpupp3t said:


> Thanks neurofone!
> 
> I'm more of a fun listener than a analytical one so I will probably end up missing the bass boost on the C5D, which it does oh so well.
> 
> My current kit is distinctly mid-fi with a Fidelio X2 and Momentum M2 wired.  Sounds like if I can exercise some self control (questionable), I'll be able to hold off until when/if I get more power hungry cans.


 
  
 Nothing analytical sounding about the element to my ears.  Bass seemed fine but I understand if you want the extra thump.


----------



## Subatomic

Question to those that have got their Element, does it work as a DAC/AMP for mobile devices (ie iOS/iPhones/Android etc)?
  
 I imagine, since it's a USB Audio Class 1, it should work natively with mobile devices. Probably would have to go, say, iPhone -> Lightning to USB Camera Adapter -> USB in to the Element. I seem to remember someone mentioned it worked with their Android phone, but needed a powered USB hub, which sounds a bit odd to me...


----------



## canthearyou

I'm enjoying it!


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

canthearyou said:


> I'm enjoying it!


 
 Two great pieces of industrial design.  The looks are very complimentary.  canthearyou, you're making this really hard for me...


----------



## mindbomb

was there any talk of volume control in this thread? I've heard anecdotally that this amp has no channel imbalance at all even at minimum volume...so a digital potentiometer?


----------



## canthearyou

mindbomb said:


> was there any talk of volume control in this thread? I've heard anecdotally that this amp has no channel imbalance at all even at minimum volume...so a digital potentiometer?




I can hear an imbalance at very very low volume. Nothing bothersome in the least.


----------



## neurofone

canthearyou said:


> I can hear an imbalance at very very low volume. Nothing bothersome in the least.


 
  
 I can't detect it, maybe just barely, not sure if it's in my head.   I agree nothing bothersome, way too low.


----------



## mindbomb

neurofone said:


> I can't detect it, maybe just barely, not sure if it's in my head.   I agree nothing bothersome, way too low.


 
 well, specifically, i was reading your account of it on reddit lol. If you had trouble detecting it with sensitive IEMs, that means virtually everyone else should be good. And the performance to me still sounds like it is beyond what is possible with analog potentiometers, but idk. The amp has a microprocessor too, so a digital pot seems like a possibility.


----------



## Llloyd

subatomic said:


> Question to those that have got their Element, does it work as a DAC/AMP for mobile devices (ie iOS/iPhones/Android etc)?
> 
> I imagine, since it's a USB Audio Class 1, it should work natively with mobile devices. Probably would have to go, say, iPhone -> Lightning to USB Camera Adapter -> USB in to the Element. I seem to remember someone mentioned it worked with their Android phone, but needed a powered USB hub, which sounds a bit odd to me...


 
  
 I originally couldn't get it to work and had to use a powered usb hub to supply enough power.  Here's the response from jds.
  


> The DAC chipset used in The Element is the same as ODAC, which is Android compatible. That said, The Element's DAC is programmed differently and your Android device must be able to accept a 100mA USB OTG load. This is the only requirement.


----------



## neurofone

mindbomb said:


> well, specifically, i was reading your account of it on reddit lol. If you had trouble detecting it with sensitive IEMs, that means virtually everyone else should be good. And the performance to me still sounds like it is beyond what is possible with analog potentiometers, but idk. The amp has a microprocessor too, so a digital pot seems like a possibility.


 
  
 Ha, I figured my head-fi/reddit worlds would cross one day!
  
 Anyway, I'll listen again today.  My ringing middle aged ears shouldn't be trusted...


----------



## neurofone

llloyd said:


> I originally couldn't get it to work and had to use a powered usb hub to supply enough power.  Here's the response from jds.


 
  
 I will try it with my Android phone later today.   I can't imagine ever using it with a phone, it's not portable of course by any means.


----------



## Subatomic

llloyd said:


> I originally couldn't get it to work and had to use a powered usb hub to supply enough power.  Here's the response from jds.


 
  
 Ok cool, so it sounds like it will behave as per the ODAC then, so would have to use it with a powered USB hub. Cheers 
  
  


neurofone said:


> I will try it with my Android phone later today.   I can't imagine ever using it with a phone, it's not portable of course by any means.


 
  
 Yea haha, not portable, and mains powered, my intention is to get one for work, and have it connected to both my PC and my phone and be able to swap between those two sources. Sounds like it will be possible with a powered USB hub and the lightning to usb camera adapter


----------



## neurofone

Regarding volume and channel imbalance:
  
 With my iMac volume at 100%, and The Element turned down all the way (6 o'clock position), I can still hear the audio (very faintly).
 Also, I can turn the iMac volume down to 12 out of 16 bars (so 75% volume) and still hear the audio if I try really hard.
 Just shows you how little juice these SE846 need.
  
 Anyway at these super low levels, I do not detect a channel imbalance, using this youtube test:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8ODm-F9-IM


----------



## loki993

Anyone compare this to a schiit stack yet?


----------



## sheldaze

loki993 said:


> Anyone compare this to a schiit stack yet?


 
 I'd be glad to, once my Element is shipped.
 In the meantime


----------



## Valens7

I received my Element, and the amp's sound signature reminds me a lot of HeadAmp's pico Power. If that information is helpful to anyone!


----------



## loki993

sheldaze said:


> loki993 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone compare this to a schiit stack yet?
> ...


 

Thatd be great..i was totally ready to pull the trigger on a uber schiit stack for my k7xxs and then they announced this


----------



## Valens7

I swear, the Element has the most pleasurable volume pot I've ever turned. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Quiet as the grave, zero channel imbalance that I can detect. And the white accent lighting is gorgeous!
  
 As for the volume control being digital, JDS' website mentions that the "volume potentiometer taper" component is an "Alps 15A." I don't know precisely what that means, honestly, but perhaps that info clears things up for someone who does? I know that Alps is a fine purveyor of analog pots, but I've no idea about that particular part.


----------



## mindbomb

valens7 said:


> I swear, the Element has the most pleasurable volume pot I've ever turned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 15A is the rate of volume change. It's the most common type I think. I don't think it necessarily means analog potentiometer, since I think a digital could have any rate you want.


----------



## Mihaidmg

Did anyone find out if we can switch the rca input for the amp in ouput for Dac? From what i saw here , is a jumper on the board that can do that, or you need to configure it before purchasing ?


----------



## dullknives

mihaidmg said:


> Did anyone find out if we can switch the rca input for the amp in ouput for Dac? From what i saw here , is a jumper on the board that can do that, or you need to configure it before purchasing ?


 
 yes.  you have to request it at the time of order.


----------



## Mihaidmg

So if i didn;t request it, that means i dont have the jumper on board for switching the input to ouput ?


----------



## dullknives

mihaidmg said:


> So if i didn;t request it, that means i dont have the jumper on board for switching the input to ouput ?


 
 the jumper is still there but they recommend having it done at the factory.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/769643/jds-labs-element/75#post_11691929


----------



## Mihaidmg

Thanks for the help. Is too late to do it on factory, because i have it already.


----------



## Mistershifter

mihaidmg said:


> Thanks for the help. Is too late to do it on factory, because i have it already.


 

 Why don't you call JDS Labs and speak to them?


----------



## Mihaidmg

It's complicated, but before doing the switching i will send an email to Jds labs and ask them to guide me how do it proper. Thanks for the fast answers and help.


----------



## PaoBit

Forgive my newbness... Will these be able to handle the sennheiser hd600 well? Was first looking at the O2 +ODAC but then came across this and thought these def look better.


----------



## Demonmnky

The Element will drive the Sennheisers easily.


----------



## Valens7

The Element handles the HD 650 with aplomb, so you shouldn't have any worries on that count. I get more than ample volume at low gain, and the sonic presentation is of excellent quality for an amp at the Element's price point.


----------



## wim1983

oh my oh my, this is a good element in audio. My faithful impressions:
  
 1. The new DAC definitely better control and lower distortion than previous ODAC
  
 2. The gain button is something useful, in case you want laid back relax sound or more push and omph, low gain or high gain
  
 3. Overall the headamp towards dead neutral, transparent, and colorless implementation, so for some colorless headphone like HD598, it sound a little bit thin to me
  
 4. Last I would like to point out, the slew rate maybe something I think maybe not enough, though I need to have more thorough testings with more headphones and speakers
  
 Gears used in testing:
 Blue Jeans (1/4inch jack to RCA, RCA cables, 3.5mm jack to RCA)
 Supra RCA
 JDS Labs ODAC
 Sennheiser HD598
 Wharfedale Diamond 122
  
 My next test plan:
 Sennheiser HD650
 Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary Special Edition
  
  
 Overall, I can label JDS Labs The Element as the audio gear that bring high end, hi-fidelity, musical relax sonic to your ears!


----------



## PaoBit

=(...Just got a bowers and wilkins p7 due to it's low impedanceso I wouldn't have to worry about getting an amp/DAC. This is my first purchase into expensive audio. Maybe for my next purchase I'll invest in amp/dac together with the sennheiser. 
  
 Or should I return the P7 and get the Element/Senns?


----------



## sheldaze

wim1983 said:


> My next test plan:
> Sennheiser HD650
> Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary Special Edition
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the review!
  
 I am interested in how this will sound with something like the HD650. When I ask the question, many people respond that it can drive the HD600 and HD650 just fine. But what I'm after is a little more subtle. For example, I recently compared the Schiit Vali to the Schiit Magni 2 (not Uber). Though I feel the Magni 2 is stronger, I prefer the Vali sound. I'm in the 1-2 weeks waiting period for the JDS Labs Element, so your reviews are appreciated!


----------



## xuan87

sheldaze said:


> Thanks for the review!
> 
> I am interested in how this will sound with something like the HD650. When I ask the question, many people respond that it can drive the HD600 and HD650 just fine. But what I'm after is a little more subtle. For example, I recently compared the Schiit Vali to the Schiit Magni 2 (not Uber). Though I feel the Magni 2 is stronger, I prefer the Vali sound. I'm in the 1-2 weeks waiting period for the JDS Labs Element, so your reviews are appreciated!


 
  
 If you prefer the Vali sound to the Magni sound, then the Element might not be for you.
  
 What you are interested in finding out is the synergy or sound signature of the amp with your headphones, rather than whether the amp can drive your cans or not.
  
 Although I have not heard the Element, I've heard the Magni, and have also heard the O2 and JDS C5D and I think the Element is more similar with its neutral signature than a hybrid tube amp like the Vali.


----------



## wim1983

sheldaze said:


> Thanks for the review!
> 
> I am interested in how this will sound with something like the HD650. When I ask the question, many people respond that it can drive the HD600 and HD650 just fine. But what I'm after is a little more subtle. For example, I recently compared the Schiit Vali to the Schiit Magni 2 (not Uber). Though I feel the Magni 2 is stronger, I prefer the Vali sound. I'm in the 1-2 weeks waiting period for the JDS Labs Element, so your reviews are appreciated!


 
 Well, sorry to let you know that I do not own HD650, it's my next plan purchase indeed, haha. But based on my experience, JDS Labs product is dead accurate, neutral, transparent, so you need to pair with some colorful gear, so in this case I get impressive sound pairing with British signature speakers, i.e. Wharfedale Diamond 220, while for headphone can like HD598 I did not get much satisfaction, so once again it's gear matching. I'm not sure about HD650, until I got cash to audition it out, it will be after New Year I guess...


----------



## Schopenhauer

paobit said:


> =(...Just got a bowers and wilkins p7 due to it's low impedanceso I wouldn't have to worry about getting an amp/DAC. This is my first purchase into expensive audio. Maybe for my next purchase I'll invest in amp/dac together with the sennheiser.
> 
> Or should I return the P7 and get the Element/Senns?



The P7 doesn't require an amp. It's also, imho, a pretty fantastic headphone. Why would you return the P7 in order to get something you don't need, i.e. an amp? Now, if the reason for return is that you want the HD600, I'd have a listen first (assuming you haven't already).


----------



## PaoBit

hehe true..guess I'll be keeping the P7 =D


----------



## Drew3627

unless i missed in reading thru the post has anyone paired them up with LCD-2 ???/ please post your thoughts as if not I can what to Can-Jam to see how they pair


----------



## s7uart

paobit said:


> hehe true..guess I'll be keeping the P7 =D




I'm currently auditioning some B&W P7s at home, I'm using them with a Geek Out 450 and they come alive through this little DAC/amp driving off my Android phone / tablet or laptop.
They sound good direct off my phone or tablet, but they really do shine via this little DAC/amp, just thought I'd share this if it helps in anyway.


----------



## Mihaidmg

If you are looking for a neutral (flat) sound, Element is the perfect tool for it. I have the K712 headphone and due to a slight bass boost, i feel like has a lack on lows, not that much, just a little bit. But probably that my K712 are brand new, maybe after 50-60 more hours of burning, the sound will be fine. Also K712 are power hungry headphones and you need to use it on high gain in order to juice them out. Never heard the iDAC + iCAN, did someone has them and can make a comparation between Element and iDAC + iCAN ?  Thank You!


----------



## Valens7

I've heard some pretty good gear in my time on Head-Fi, I like to think. But I swear, the combination of the Element and Aurisonics' ASG-1PLUS is just heavenly. So smooth and effortless. The Element manages to clean up the low end a fair bit over the headphone out on my iPhone 6 Plus. Consequently, the midrange is more clear. Totally worth the money, IMO.


----------



## cleer8

I need on honest comparison between the element and the o2 + odac! anyone got both?


----------



## Valens7

I've never used the O2, but the Element does sound very similar to the HeadAmp pico Power + ODAC combo that I used to have. Almost identical, really, which is not particularly surprising. If I had to choose between the two based purely on sonic performance, I'd give a minute edge to the Element. The Element is somewhat better at handling more challenging loads, too.
  
 Bear in mind, this assessment is coming from memory. Take it with a healthy grain of salt.


----------



## MLegend

I don't own the element so I don't have any impressions or experience with it, however i've been emailing JDSLabs recently about measurements and power output and *with their* permission here is the frequency response of the element and interpolated power output (since everything besides 32,150, and 600 have not been exactly listed).
  
 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1APtUkCCBp6H73wifjLcSfxucFxbCaISVVdQxmTO_69s/pubchart?oid=529655900&format=interactive
  
 https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOTqB5IYho5CZjlo4laT3LIeXFN5HCLD1sQRPHR


----------



## asutt

For those interested in using the Element with HD650s, I digitized the plot and got a power output of 345W at 300 Ohms, so a little higher than the magni 2 uber. I'm really still on the fence when deciding on the Element vs. the Schiit stack. I love the design of the Element and it's certainly plenty powerful, but the M2U combo is more versatile. At the moment this is just for use at my desk, so perhaps simplicity should dictate my decision. If anyone has had a chance to use the Element with the HD650s, can you comment on the sound?


----------



## sheldaze

asutt said:


> For those interested in using the Element with HD650s, I digitized the plot and got a power output of 345W at 300 Ohms, so a little higher than the magni 2 uber. I'm really still on the fence when deciding on the Element vs. the Schiit stack. I love the design of the Element and it's certainly plenty powerful, but the M2U combo is more versatile. At the moment this is just for use at my desk, so perhaps simplicity should dictate my decision. If anyone has had a chance to use the Element with the HD650s, can you comment on the sound?


 
 I agree in terms of versatility, using the Modi 2 Uber you have a lot of digital input options at a very low cost. But I suspect the thinking was along the lines of the Woo Audio WA7 and Meridian Prime, which I've read are both simply good headphone amplifiers with a USB input thrown in for convenience. How does it sound to you - the Schiit versus the JDS Labs?
  
 I promised someone a while back to compare plain Schiit Magni 2 to my JDS Labs (using my HD650), but it will need to wait a week or two due to ... well, personal things. I just opened the box - initial listening to the JDS Labs seems like I'm hearing something very special.


----------



## kupuna

Is the Element as uncolored as O2+ODAC?


----------



## Basem88

I have Philips Fidelio x2, I need to buy AMP + DAC
  
 What is the best amp + dac for Philips Fidelio x2  to get out best sound ?
  
 Some people told my (Element by JDS Laps) and some people told me (Magni 2 Uber + Modi 2 Uber)
  
 Please I need help,, can't decide
  
 Excuse my English... Thank u


----------



## Basem88

basem88 said:


> I have Philips Fidelio x2, I need to buy AMP + DAC
> 
> What is the best amp + dac for Philips Fidelio x2  to get out best sound ?
> 
> ...


 
 PLZ any help ?!!!


----------



## sheldaze

basem88 said:


> I have Philips Fidelio x2, I need to buy AMP + DAC
> 
> What is the best amp + dac for Philips Fidelio x2  to get out best sound ?
> 
> ...


 

 I think the headphone you are considering is a balanced headphone. You will get good sound from either the Uber versions of the Magni 2 and Modi 2, or the JDS Labs Element. Without listening to them, have you considered other features? The JDS Labs Element has a single power connection and resides in a single box, while the Schiit will require two power bricks, two boxes, and RCA cables to connect. What is the desktop area where you plan to put the DAC/AMP and how many connections will fit your existing electrical outlets? The Magni and Modi provide more digital connections, and flexibility in future to be used just as a DAC, or as a pre-amp to an external amplifier. Will you be using these features?


----------



## sheldaze

As promised using JDS Labs in comparison to Schiit Magni 2 to drive the Sennheiser HD650,
  
 The first order of business was to pick a DAC. Though this is not a DAC comparison, I wanted to pick something of enough quality to allow for proper comparison of the AMP options. Yet I also wanted to pick something around the same price/quality of the JDS Labs and Schiit products. Instead of picking Meridian Director and Schiit Bifrost, I choose to compare the internal JDS Labs DAC against the line output from the Meridian Explorer2 and HRT microStreamer, in hope that one of the two would provide a comparable sound for later use as input to the Schiit AMP options.
  
 I’m admittedly a little lazy when it comes to music selection. I usually just pick whatever suits my mood. Today the selections are:
  

Norah Jones - Don’t Know Why and Seven Years from Come Away with Me (HDtracks FLAC, 24/192)
Cassandra Wilson - Another Country (HDtracks FLAC sampler 2014, 24/96)
Lorde - Ribs and Buzzcut Season (HDtracks FLAC, 24/48)
Fleetwood Mac - Dreams from Rumors (Pono FLAC, 24/96)
Dave Matthews Band - Proudest Monkey from Crash (Pono FLAC, 16/44.1)
Eagles - Hotel California (Pono FLAC, 24/192)
  
 Notes follow, which I may or may not include in final summary. I’m accustomed to hearing grain during playback of the Norah Jones album - straight through the JDS Labs internal DAC, it was quite a smooth sound. There’s still plenty of breath and air around each of her phrases. She just has a style, like it or not, of closeness with the microphone. Hard to believe I suffered with these headphones for 10 years, not liking them until I got my first USB dongle last year - they’re very nice in this setup. The Cassandra Wilson song can suffer from a poor presentation, due to acoustic guitar and lots of cymbal percussion adding to a lot of high frequency energy. This is not the best presentation I’ve heard, very near to the edge of my personal comfort of high frequency detail. What can I say about Lorde - I am simply waiting to hear her second album. Uh-oh, raining outside, which I hope will not create too much background noise. Rumors by Fleetwood Mac is also perfect sound - spacious, detailed, layered with the bazillion sounds that the band created in their studio masterpiece. The Dave Matthews Band song starts quietly and simply, but then crescendos into a louder and more energetic piece by song’s peak. Again it’s definitely not the best presentation of this song I’ve heard. Some of the layers of sounds are starting to get lost behind the foreground instrument sounds. There is a thumping beat to the Eagles song, which I do not recall. I cannot see this getting better with a different DAC or AMP, but I hope it does. Again, I’ve heard it sound better during playback on other devices and headphones.
  
 I switched over to a “naked” Meridian Explorer2. I call it “naked” because I usually use some kind of USB power buffer between it and my laptop USB. I feel as if there is just the slightest bit of tasty grain. It’s not a bad sound at all. It’s just Norah Jones sound up-close-and-personal with a microphone, a tasty sound. Me being a piano player, I also appreciate the crisp piano sounds that sparkle in the pause between each musical phrase. On the second song, there’s a depth to the guitars that I do not recall from the JDS Labs internal DAC. There’s a base note at the beginning of the Cassandra Wilson song, which I do not recall from the internal DAC. No issues at all with the percussion as a play through the Meridian DAC. It is so much more relaxed that I wonder if things are missing. But each time an instrument is allowed a solo moment, it immediately appears in the foreground, and quickly settles back into the stage depth of the main band, when the solo moment concludes. I’m really liking the bass player during this go around. Checking Wikipedia to be sure Lorde is working on her second album. If I weren’t doing a review, this is the point where I’d start to turn up the volume. Second song from Lorde has a piano note - so nice. The separation between the instruments, which was there during the first playback of Fleetwood Mac, is just more during playback through the Meridian DAC. For example, when he hits the cymbal and lets it ring, the decay is audible longer. The slow entrance of each instrument of the Dave Matthews Band is even more delayed. The sound of Dave’s voice, first in the chorus of other band member voices, next in the foreground, the change between the two placements is more dramatic. Eagles! Yes - the bass and drum, while playing at the same time are not the same sound. That was really annoying during the first playback with the JDS Labs internal DAC.
  
 Let’s start with the dynamics to describe the HRT microStreamer. Each time Norah Jones makes a phrase, there’s a zing of sound, kind of like a race car revving its engine. It make take me a song or two to adjust to the sound of the HRT microStreamer. However on the second song from Norah Jones, I can hear that she’s changed her cadance. She’s using a more subtle, gradual introduction to each phrase, always soft, and more delicate - artfully matching her sound to the new lyrics. I could say I noted an artist choice, which I did not notice before. Listening to the song by Cassandra Wilson, I would definitely need to conclude there is less delta between foreground and background. It is still not harsh like the original JDS Labs internal DAC. But there was a guitar solo that did not jump as far into the foreground, or afterward sink as far back into the band sound. Sounds go from soft to loud, but they don’t move as much front to back on the soundstage. Don’t read this as a dislike for the HRT microStreamer sound, which I definitely like. I just find the soundstage works for some headphones, and not for others. Then the sound cut out, which it’s been doing on the Lorde track of lately. Grrr… So I skipped forward to Rumors track by Fleetwood Mac. The sound is nice, but the instruments are clearly on top of one another again. So I skipped to the Dave Matthews Band, which had the same stage depth issue. I can describe the issue even further with the Eagles song. Because there are three people playing guitar at the same time, it is critical the listener is able to hear separation. Otherwise the sound becomes a confusing mess of a note on the left, a note on the right, and another note in the middle. Who’s playing what? Who knows?
  
 Both USB DAC sound better to me than the DAC in the JDS Labs. But the Meridian Explorer I will use when I compare the JDS Labs to each Schiit AMP due to the increased soundstage when listening to my HD650 headphones.


----------



## sheldaze

I was starting to tire of the same songs. I also wanted to pick songs that were shorter. And I wanted to pick fewer songs:
  

Norah Jones - One Flight Down from Come Away With Me (HDtracks FLAC, 24/192)
Lorde - White Teeth Teens (HDtracks FLAC, 24/48)
Fleetwood Mac - You Make Loving Fun from Rumors (Pono FLAC, 24/96)
Sting - Saint Agnes and the Burning Train from Soul Cages (AIFF, 16/44.1)
Tori Amos - Baker Baker from Tales of a Librarian (AIFF, 16/44.1)
  
 While listening to the JDS Labs, if anything strikes me, I will note it here. Otherwise I’ll start taking notes when I switch to the Schiit products. All I can say is if the sound doesn’t improve, that’s plenty okay with me. This is the best presentation of each of these songs I have ever heard in my entire existence on this planet - just amazing! I’ve heard the Sting song many times before, so it is simply matching best prior experience. I’ve no idea how Tori Amos can compress so much emotion into 3 minutes of music - wow!
  
 I figured I would go through in order from cheapest to most expensive. Magni 2 is up. I want to say it’s a little more straightforward, less warm - but I’m not clear how to identify this. The volume knob is certainly more difficult to adjust smoothly. There seems to be more energy focus on higher frequency sounds. As I already mentioned in my previous comparison between the DAC options, I am not a fan of additional high frequency energy. But to my ears, a side effect of vibrant highs is I actually lose soundstage. With Fleetwood Mac, I heard more of the thumping sound where bass and drum sound were lost against each other, cymbals and guitars start to mesh, and group chorus is joined as one. I heard Baker Baker too many times to listen past 25 seconds. It sounded edgy. Gotta let my ears cool down and my tubs warm up!
  
 The Magni 2 Uber (which I do not have) may be better than the Magni 2. The Vali (which I have) is definitely better than the Magni 2 for HD650 headphones. Lorde is putting a smile back on my face. There’s a nice wide separation between the vocals. I cannot help but think this is not quite as clear as the JDS Labs, and that no amount of volume will overcome that issue, but I am finding the sound entertaining, and not tiring. With the very first slow cymbal decay on Fleetwood Mac, I know I like this sound. The instruments aren’t on top each other, but I think they are a little more separate when played through the JDS Labs.
  
 I know no one here is likely to consider the Valhalla as an alternative to JDS Labs amplifier. But it (along with my Bifrost Uber) is what I purposely bought to drive my HD650 headphones. So for my personal edification, I decided to continue the comparison using the Valhalla, while keeping the Meridian DAC in place. There is more detail than the Vali, but there’s a lot of grain on the Norah Jones song, just like I remembered. On Lorde, the Valhalla sounds closer to the Magni 2, not like the Vali or JDS Labs. It sounds like an improvement on the Magni 2 sound. Here is the issue with the first cymbal on the Fleetwood Mac song. The decay is there on all the amplifiers, but there is an immediate tap-tap-tap sound that starts on a different cymbal after the first cymbal is struck. On the two preferred amplifiers, I can more easily concentrate on the initial cymbal decay when the tapping starts. On the Magni 2 and Valhalla, the tapping sound either bothers me or covers up (sounds too similar to) the initial cymbal decay. The best way I can describe the Baker Baker sound issue is like a person having a conversation with you but they are in your personal space. Their argument does not hold the same sway as it would if they had simply made it at a distance where you could see their face entire, rather than only being able to see their mouth moving too closely. There is a proper distance for conveyance of emotion, and this setup is not that ideal distance.
  
 You may not have gained any insights from my comparisons, but I certainly did. The JDS Labs sounded like something special from the moment I listened to it a week ago.


----------



## Mihaidmg

Did someone manage to open and change the input for head amp to Dac output ? I found where are the screws and open it, but i can;t see any jumper on the back of the board. Maybe there is a jumper on the other side , that means to take out the knob and also is very hard to take the case out because of the RCAs. I don;t want to broke it so if someone has a tutorial or did it , can post the steps how to take out the case without damage the board or the rca plugs? I forgot to ask for  Dac output instead of amp input when i order it, will be nice if you can switch it between amp input and dac ouput , maybe in the future they will put a switcher outside the case for that. Thank you !


----------



## MLegend

Thank you so much for this! Kind of a confusing read though I must admit. Couldn't really tell if you liked the sound of the element compared to the other 2 or not. Can't believe The Element has been out for more than a month and there isn't a single review. Kind of irritating to say the least. Thanks again for the comparison! Really appreciate it.


----------



## Mudokon

mihaidmg said:


> Did someone manage to open and change the input for head amp to Dac output ? I found where are the screws and open it, but i can;t see any jumper on the back of the board. Maybe there is a jumper on the other side , that means to take out the knob and also is very hard to take the case out because of the RCAs. I don;t want to broke it so if someone has a tutorial or did it , can post the steps how to take out the case without damage the board or the rca plugs? I forgot to ask for  Dac output instead of amp input when i order it, will be nice if you can switch it between amp input and dac ouput , maybe in the future they will put a switcher outside the case for that. Thank you !


 

 The jumpers are right there, on the bottom of the PCB. They are labelled SJ1 and SJ3. Just apply some solder.


----------



## loki993

Thanks..honestly I was just looking for the Shiits a bit bright and the element is more neutral or something to that effect..but thats given me a lot to think about, very good write up. Though you did pretty much confirm everything Ive heard about the Magni...its forward and a bit bright..Kinda stinks because I really did want a Magni but it just doesn't seem like it would be a good match with my main headphones, AKG K7XXs. While a bit warm is probably exactly what they need. 

What you really sold me on was that Meridian DAC....damn I cant spend 300 bucks on a DAC though. ...seriously you make me wish they made an element without a DAC. 



mlegend said:


> Thank you so much for this! Kind of a confusing read though I must admit. Couldn't really tell if you liked the sound of the element compared to the other 2 or not. Can't believe The Element has been out for more than a month and there isn't a single review. Kind of irritating to say the least. Thanks again for the comparison! Really appreciate it.




Yeah there definitely doesn't seem to be the hype I would have thought with this, especially since new things tend to get a lot of attention. . 

As for the review I gathered that he really likes the sound of the element.


----------



## Llloyd

Well I said it before, the Element is a nice piece of audio equip.  I found it to be as good as any other equipment I've tried in the price range with just a different flavour. Smooth and linear with power for any headphone. Intimate, laid back sound.  Looks nice on the desk. My recommendations.
  
 Probably not worth going from something else that costs as much to it or similar setups such as o2 + odac. Just sell that and upgrade if you're looking to improve on sound.


----------



## sheldaze

mlegend said:


> Thank you so much for this! Kind of a confusing read though I must admit. Couldn't really tell if you liked the sound of the element compared to the other 2 or not. Can't believe The Element has been out for more than a month and there isn't a single review. Kind of irritating to say the least. Thanks again for the comparison! Really appreciate it.


 
 Sorry for the confusion. I loved it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I probably should have cleaned it up, but spent quite a few hours during the listening. That, or I should have picked fewer songs to compare, which would have made the listening time less and allowed more time for a careful, concise writeup.
  


loki993 said:


> Thanks..honestly I was just looking for the Shiits a bit bright and the element is more neutral or something to that effect..but thats given me a lot to think about, very good write up. Though you did pretty much confirm everything Ive heard about the Magni...its forward and a bit bright..Kinda stinks because I really did want a Magni but it just doesn't seem like it would be a good match with my main headphones, AKG K7XXs. While a bit warm is probably exactly what they need.
> 
> What you really sold me on was that Meridian DAC....damn I cant spend 300 bucks on a DAC though. ...seriously you make me wish they made an element without a DAC.
> Yeah there definitely doesn't seem to be the hype I would have thought with this, especially since new things tend to get a lot of attention. .
> ...


 
 That was very surprising for me too. I always thought the Meridian had a nice sound, but I did not know how nice. I think it was held back during earlier listening by the amplifier section. This is particularly true when run with high impedance headphones such as the HD650.
 I've posted to people in other threads that I think the Meridian is great for easy to drive headphones. This confirms it for me


----------



## jseaber

mlegend said:


> Can't believe The Element has been out for more than a month and there isn't a single review. Kind of irritating to say the least. Thanks again for the comparison! Really appreciate it.


 
  
 Review units finally ship this week. Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## sheldaze

llloyd said:


> Well I said it before, the Element is a nice piece of audio equip.  I found it to be as good as any other equipment I've tried in the price range with just a different flavour. Smooth and linear with power for any headphone. Intimate, laid back sound.  Looks nice on the desk. My recommendations.
> 
> Probably not worth going from something else that costs as much to it or similar setups such as o2 + odac. Just sell that and upgrade if you're looking to improve on sound.


 

 Your posts definitely contributed to my wanting to try this out.
 Thanks!


----------



## MLegend

jseaber said:


> Review units finally ship this week. Thanks for the feedback!


 
 Thank you for the info. Can't wait!


----------



## Mihaidmg

mudokon said:


> The jumpers are right there, on the bottom of the PCB. They are labelled SJ1 and SJ3. Just apply some solder.


 
 Oke, thanks for your help and for the picture, will be helpful for others also.


----------



## Instinct

Can anyone tell me exactly how the rca output works? I seen the post where you will need to turn the volume all the way down to mute the headphone volume but can we make it so that only 1 output is playing at a time? How do we mute the rca out when we have headphones plugged in?


----------



## canthearyou

instinct said:


> Can anyone tell me exactly how the rca output works? I seen the post where you will need to turn the volume all the way down to mute the headphone volume but can we make it so that only 1 output is playing at a time? How do we mute the rca out when we have headphones plugged in?



I believe it will auto mute with RCA plugged in.


----------



## Instinct

canthearyou said:


> I believe it will auto mute with RCA plugged in.


 

 Auto mute the headphones? Then why do we need to turn the volume knob to 0?
  
 I just want to know this: Can we switch from headphones to RCA out (speakers) without unplugging anything? I'm fine with turning a knob or pushing a button but I don't want to have to unplug my headphones or even worse, have to unplug my RCA out because they are in the back. Yes, these are 1st world problems but I've become accustomed to being able to switch from headphones to rca out(speakers) on the fly by a switch on the Audinst Dac/Amp combo.


----------



## neurofone

I'm putting Element up for sale in the market place in case anyone is interested.   Just a few weeks old.  I'm happy enough with my C5D, and I miss the C5D's bass boost option when I use the Element.


----------



## asutt

Any word on when the early August orders will go out?


----------



## jseaber

asutt said:


> Any word on when the early August orders will go out?


 
  
 All outstanding orders will depart Wednesday (tomorrow) evening.


----------



## asutt

Fantastic! Can't wait.


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

neurofone said:


> I'm putting Element up for sale in the market place in case anyone is interested.   Just a few weeks old.  I'm happy enough with my C5D, and I miss the C5D's bass boost option when I use the Element.


 
 Hi neurofone,
  
 Any more details on your comparison between the C5D and the Element?
  
 I'm in a similar boat in that I have a C5D that I'm very happy with but am tempted by the Element.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## wim1983

Anybody know how to remove the foot pads? I guess it's where the screw at? I plan to send to somebody to add in some components in order to utilize the big volume knob to control DAC volume passively, is that even possible?


----------



## neurofone

s0ckpupp3t said:


> Hi neurofone,
> 
> Any more details on your comparison between the C5D and the Element?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd say if you don't need the power that the Element provides, then the C5D is just as good.  In fact, I preferred the C5D with my IEMs because of the nice bass boost option.   If I had harder-to-drive cans, I would definitely go with the Element.


----------



## jseaber

wim1983 said:


> Anybody know how to remove the foot pads? I guess it's where the screw at? I plan to send to somebody to add in some components in order to utilize the big volume knob to control DAC volume passively, is that even possible?


 
  
 Anything is possible! JDS Labs can perform such a mod, and I suspect we're better suited to do so.
  
 Simpler idea: Why not connect your equipment to the 1/4" output jack? Unity gain (1.0x) will gave the exact function you've described.
  
 You'll need strong fingernails to pry the feet off.


----------



## Shaffer

jseaber said:


> You'll need strong fingernails to pry the feet off.




How about a heat gun and a plastic razor blade?


----------



## jseaber

shaffer said:


> How about a heat gun and a plastic razor blade?


 
  
 Heat guy may help. A razor will damage the surface. Fingernails are best.


----------



## Mudokon

Has anyone managed to remove the knob? I'm itching to take a better peek at the internals but I'm afraid of causing damage. Any tips?


----------



## chococya96

Just a trivial question but do you offer inscription of the pictures we upload on the unit? Like you do on O2+ODAC combo?


----------



## jseaber

mudokon said:


> Has anyone managed to remove the knob? I'm itching to take a better peek at the internals but I'm afraid of causing damage. Any tips?


 
  
 The knob is permanently adhered to the potentiometer shaft. While disassembly is possible, doing so risks destruction of the potentiometer.
  


chococya96 said:


> Just a trivial question but do you offer inscription of the pictures we upload on the unit? Like you do on O2+ODAC combo?


 
  
 Yes, you may upload artwork during checkout.


----------



## wim1983

I had try to use the 1/4 output to RCA, though this considered double amped, after some long listening and verification process, I feel that the sound is harsh and more fatigue compare to directly out from DAC, it din sound right to me, now I've out of idea though, and not plan to mod it. What I actually want is passive preamp without add in more cables, I can of course buy a cheap preamp, but then I need 1 more pairs of RCA, and it's occupy too much space and there are too much interconnects.


----------



## Mihaidmg

If the preamp is a cheap one , you will damage the sound as well. I was thinking to add a small switcher there ,so i can switch between output and input, not sure if is gonna fit.


----------



## wim1983

hmm, more correctly say is passive preamp, there are some budget gears, but then I still prefer a DAC + headamp + preamp all in one unit, is there any reason JDS Labs not put the DAC headamp into passive preamp function, some vendors like Audio GD got such all in one unit with a price tag rougly 325, though it would be good also to have a remote control volume, it's matter as  different music mastering just does not sound the same volume need at constant level


----------



## Shaffer

jseaber said:


> Heat guy may help. A razor will damage the surface. Fingernails are best.




I was talking about a plastic razor blade, the kind that's safe for automotive paint. FWIW, fingernails scratch paint.


----------



## tl13m

Any comparison to iDAC2, Micro/Nano iDSD (sound and amp, not DSD playback)?
  
 I current have FiiO E18, will Element is an upgrade? (mostly use with iem)?
  
 Thanks


----------



## loki993

Any updates? Still haven't seen a review and the hype seems to be dying down on this.


----------



## sheldaze

loki993 said:


> Any updates? Still haven't seen a review and the hype seems to be dying down on this.


 

 I'm most curious to hear people's comments on how it compares with the original O2.
  
 I personally wouldn't want to write a review - I'm still too excited about the product! And the only solid state amp I have to compare against it is the Magni 2 - people these days seem to be more enamored with the Magni 2 Uber


----------



## loki993

Im enamored with the Magni 2 Uber lol..problem is a lot of people seem to say its too bright for AKG headphones. Other problem I dont know if that true or just the internet. From what I can gather the element is definitely not bright...


----------



## Spiral Out

loki993 said:


> Im enamored with the Magni 2 Uber lol..problem is a lot of people seem to say its too bright for AKG headphones. Other problem I dont know if that true or just the internet. From what I can gather the element is definitely not bright...




I would be interested in a comparison of the element to the matrix m stage with AKG phones. The m stage is a fantastic match for the k701q701, I wonder how the element stacks up.


----------



## sheldaze

spiral out said:


> I would be interested in a comparison of the element to the matrix m stage with AKG phones. The m stage is a fantastic match for the k701q701, I wonder how the element stacks up.


 
 Are you coming to the headphone meet next weekend? You can listen to my Element there, if you like.


----------



## Spiral Out

sheldaze said:


> Are you coming to the headphone meet next weekend? You can listen to my Element there, if you like.




Unfortunately I can't make it I would love to check out your element,if it sounds as good as it looks then I'm sure it's something special


----------



## sheldaze

spiral out said:


> Unfortunately I can't make it I would love to check out your element,if it sounds as good as it looks then I'm sure it's something special


 
 I have to say this - even if I did a proper volume matched A-B test between it and the Magni 2, with or without Uber, and I found these two to be sonically indistinguishable, I still think the Element is pretty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I like the look of the Element in black, sitting right now on top of black Schiit Bifrost Uber, soon to sit on top of black Schiit Gungnir Multibit. I definitely have a color theme going. And I just love the feel of the large volume knob. The smooth knob along with a 1x gain just makes my low impedance headphones easy to set the volume properly.
  
 I'll be sure to take a picture of the setup at the show.


----------



## jseaber

loki993 said:


> Any updates?


 
  
 Elements have been in the hands of initial reviewers for about 1 week. Takes time!
  
  


> GEEZ: #BobMarley thru @mrspeakers ETHER @jdslabs ELEMENT via @AmarraAudio 4 @TIDALHiFi #OMFGthisSoundsAmazing pic.twitter.com/v66L31ZyIM
> — Michael Mercer (@MikeMercer) August 13, 2015


----------



## BenHolmes

No 24/192 playback 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it looks so good!!!


----------



## sheldaze

benholmes said:


> No 24/192 playback
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Once you are ready to upgrade, you can bypass the internal DAC by feeding it RCA inputs from a source of your choosing. I think you'll find it makes a really excellent headphone amplifier! Think of the USB input as convenience, something to get you going from day-one. There are many manufacturers that do this at a much higher cost (WooAudio WA7 costs $1000 and Meridian Prime costs $2000). I think The Element is still a good value though I only use it as an amplifier.
  
 And yes, it's just beautiful


----------



## BenHolmes

sheldaze said:


> Once you are ready to upgrade, you can bypass the internal DAC by feeding it RCA inputs from a source of your choosing. I think you'll find it makes a really excellent headphone amplifier! Think of the USB input as convenience, something to get you going from day-one. There are many manufacturers that do this at a much higher cost (WooAudio WA7 costs $1000 and Meridian Prime costs $2000). I think The Element is still a good value though I only use it as an amplifier.
> 
> And yes, it's just beautiful


 
 Haha you totally convinced me!


----------



## loki993

sheldaze said:


> I have to say this - even if I did a proper volume matched A-B test between it and the Magni 2, with or without Uber, and I found these two to be sonically indistinguishable




Sort of what I think too....I think things get said on the internet and they propagate to a point where you have people saying stuff that haven't even heard the equipment in question. Or they get this thought stuck in their head and when they do actually hear the stuff they hear what they want to hear..ie bright..warm...whatever



jseaber said:


> Elements have been in the hands of initial reviewers for about 1 week. Takes time!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I know....just excited to see what people think about it....


----------



## sheldaze

Perhaps this is a little off topic, but probably needs to be said.
  
 I definitely compared the JDS Labs Element against the non-Uber version of the Magni 2, which I also own. However I was still reading through the threads on the Magni 2, both Uber and non-Uber variety. About a month ago, I would have told you I did not believe in burn-in. But two products of recent have changed my mind. Those have been the HiFiMan HE-400S and the Magni 2. Both have burned in and become quite a bit darker in sound (in this case, darker means more evenly balanced than they were first out the box). But since then, I've not really been interested in an A-B comparison between the Magni 2 and Element because I've grown to truly appreciate the volume control (and color matching with my other desktop boxes) of the Element.
  
 So I'll be doing a few more experiments with my Magni 2, comparing it to the JDS Labs (not for public review, but just for personal listening) as I upgrade a few more components in the chain. Specifically, I am planning to upgrade from Schiit Bifrost Uber to Schiit Gungnir Multibit. So I'd like to have the two flavors of amps to listen. But ultimately I think I will sell the Magni 2, no longer suspecting that it is inferior to the Element - just a little different and with a definitely smaller, harder to turn volume knob.
  
 Hope this helps to cleanup an misconception of anything I've written here


----------



## Packdemon

Do you guys think that this is a reasonable upgrade from the O2 + ODAC combo, or should I not be spending $349 dollars on this when I already have the O2 + ODAC?


----------



## shigzeo

So, Element has a lot of power. And it is nearly load-agnostic. Bright, detailed, powerful. Very, very fun. Quite a steal. Wish its RCA jacks were labelled 'in' and its beautiful knob rotated a bit more smoothly, but apart from those two things, this thing is impressive.


----------



## sheldaze

shigzeo said:


> So, Element has a lot of power. And it is nearly load-agnostic. Bright, detailed, powerful. Very, very fun. Quite a steal. Wish its RCA jacks were labelled 'in' and its beautiful knob rotated a bit more smoothly, but apart from those two things, this thing is impressive.


 
 Hmm...your comment on the knob concerns me. With the regard to the comments at a recent meet, the only negative feedback was some users found the knob too smooth. They would have preferred to have digital increments like on the Ragnarok or (I have not touched it myself) like the 24-step attenuator on the Burson. These, I feel, are the only ways to make the knob smoother or any more accurate.
  
 So if you'd said too smooth, I could agree


----------



## shigzeo

sheldaze: I need to be more precise. It moves very smoothly, but wobbles a bit on axis. I love perfectly spinning tops and Element, while smooth, wobbles. It is lovely to use. And, it appears to be an R2R pentometre or something similarly accurate. My words were misspoken.


----------



## Valens7

shigzeo said:


> So, Element has a lot of power. And it is nearly load-agnostic. Bright, detailed, powerful. Very, very fun. Quite a steal. Wish its RCA jacks were labelled 'in' and its beautiful knob rotated a bit more smoothly, but apart from those two things, this thing is impressive.


 

 My thoughts exactly. I agree with your specific critique of the (otherwise superb) volume knob, too. However, to be perfectly fair, if the RCA jacks were labelled "in," that would be a source of some annoyance to anal retentive customers like me who opted to have JDS Labs reconfigure the RCAs to function as a line-level output.


----------



## sheldaze

Just saw this:
  
http://www.cnet.com/news/power-to-the-people-the-mighty-but-affordable-jds-element-desktop-headphone-amp/


----------



## loki993

Nice, though I would have wished he would have compared the sound to Shiit in addition to just comparing them on convenience.


----------



## shigzeo

valens7 said:


> My thoughts exactly. I agree with your specific critique of the (otherwise superb) volume knob, too. However, to be perfectly fair, if the RCA jacks were labelled "in," that would be a source of some annoyance to anal retentive customers like me who opted to have JDS Labs reconfigure the RCAs to function as a line-level output.


 

 That certainly makes sense. A bit better labelling would be nice but overall, superb, especially at its price point.


----------



## georgelai57

Headfonia's review is out
http://www.headfonia.com/review-jds-labs-element-bravado/


----------



## sheldaze

georgelai57 said:


> Headfonia's review is out
> http://www.headfonia.com/review-jds-labs-element-bravado/


 
 Thanks!
  
 A good read. The reviewer seems to have a wide range of headphones, which was the reason I bought the Element - to be capable of driving any headphone I encounter in future. I also had no clue it was Apple-compatible, and will need to try for myself. As such, this could become my all-in-one nightstand unit. Nice!


----------



## shigzeo

sheldaze said:


> Thanks!
> 
> A good read. The reviewer seems to have a wide range of headphones, which was the reason I bought the Element - to be capable of driving any headphone I encounter in future. I also had no clue it was Apple-compatible, and will need to try for myself. As such, this could become my all-in-one nightstand unit. Nice!


 

 Hey sheldaze. The reviewer is me, Nathan, shiggy wiggy, shigmeister, etc. Yeah, I've been well impressed with the Element. I'll add RMAA scores with USB, iOS, and RCA scores included. That's what I'm working on now. This is a powerful unit.


----------



## loki993

ok I read the new review.....


Question do you have an opinion on how it compares the something like the Magni 2 uber? Lake people g103s?? Im looking at it for some AKG K7xxs and now some AKG 240 Sextetts.....and whatever else I may throw at it but if it can do those 2 extremes it can do anything else I need it to.


----------



## shigzeo

I don't have either of the machines you mentioned. As to the AK7xx, the Element has no problem with it. As to the AK240, I have no idea. I've not paired them.


----------



## sheldaze

I truly enjoyed the AKG K7xx on my Element at a recent meet. In fact, I hope the guy wasn't getting annoyed at me - the person I borrowed it from. I was kind of using it as a baseline for comparing against all the other headphones I tried 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm still waiting in the queue at MassDrop for my own personal K7xx, hoping they do another release of this headphone...


----------



## loki993

shigzeo said:


> I don't have either of the machines you mentioned. As to the AK7xx, the Element has no problem with it. As to the AK240, I have no idea. I've not paired them.




Thats ok I think the fact that you compare it with other amps costing multi thousands of dollars is probably endorsement enough. 



sheldaze said:


> I truly enjoyed the AKG K7xx on my Element at a recent meet. In fact, I hope the guy wasn't getting annoyed at me - the person I borrowed it from. I was kind of using it as a baseline for comparing against all the other headphones I tried
> 
> I'm still waiting in the queue at MassDrop for my own personal K7xx, hoping they do another release of this headphone...




Yeah I was set on the Magni until I got the AKGs and I heard some people say it wouldn't be a good fit paring the 7xxs because they're both sort of bright. Problem is I never know if thats true or just the internet talking if you know what I mean. 

As for the headphones themselves I love them. Im powering them with a Fiio E10, which isn't really enough for them, and they still sound pretty good. Not as much bass as id like all the time but its not lacking like with say AT AD700s, its adequate and I'm a basshead. For gaming they're amazing, best phones Ive used, I hear things I never heard with the Beyer DT 770s I was using before, to the point where I wonder if people think I'm cheating sometimes because I can hear their footsteps so well. I do have AD700s and did use them for a little bit but its been so long so I can really comment if they're better for strictly gaming, but they're supposed to be. Problem is they're so bass light that its not very fun gaming with them. Everything sounds thin. So once I got DT 770s years ago they became my gotos. The K7xxs gives me the positional accuracy I was missing with the DT 770s but also has enough bass and a rich sounds that makes the game sound fun too. The best of both worlds for me. 

Hopefully a good amp will bring out a bit more bass with the K7xx and just fill everything else out. I think it should.


----------



## Packdemon

Here's a poll for the Element Amp/DAC on massdrop: https://www.massdrop.com/vote/jds-labs-dacamps


----------



## shigzeo

In case you're wondering about them, here are 24-bit RMAA scores for The Element.


----------



## maxedfx

Any idea about how well it pairs with the HD800??


----------



## shigzeo

That's of course personal. As for how it drives: no problem. Despite being small(ish) and relatively inexpensive, The Element is one of the more capable amp/DACs out there.


----------



## loki993

argh I should have bought it last night now its not shipping until late September.....


----------



## InebriatedGnome

I mean, late September is just the next ten days, so not too bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Would anyone who owns/has heard the Element and the ALO Pan Am be willing to offer me some advice about which one to get? The hardest thing I'm looking to drive would be the HD650s or maybe the LCD-2 in future, and I've heard the Pan Am pairs very well with both—but Headfonia's reviewer replied to my comment saying that the Pan Am 'can't hold a candle' to the Element. Opinions?


----------



## loki993

Its not that bad but Im impatient. Plus in this day of amazon prime 10 days feels like a really long time.


----------



## CuriousSkeptic

So while protecting my wallet and waiting for more reviews on this thing (which looks really pretty!) I dug out an old EMU 0404 USB to see if it could be used as a headphone amp for my DT 880 (250 Ohm). Seems it can.
  
 I'm using this with ASIO4All, which i think is kind of unstable as foobar seems to get stuck a lot, but this setup at least gets to uncomfortably loud, compared with the internal sound card, not sure about quality, feels a bit dull, but I have no way to know if that's the music, equipment or just me 
  
 So a question to someone with a bit more experience. If I were to exchange the this EMU thing with the Element, what should I expect the difference to be?


----------



## sheldaze

I admire your curiosity and skepticism 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Would it be possible for you to bring your Creative box to a headphone meet? While there are a few folks here at Head-Fi who are familiar with the consumer grade products along with the professional grade products, your best bet would likely be to compare it directly - and while listening to something you are familiar with. Perhaps your local group will not have a Element, but it is rumored to sound close to other products such as Schiit Modi/Magni combination.
  
 Without knowing what your box sounds like, I'd be hard-pressed to make exact comparisons. However I am first concerned with the high 22ohm output impedance, but that is of little concern for your DT 800 cans, which also have a high impedance. I am also concerned with the maximum output power of 20mW. But I too am guessing this is a low estimate - in comparison, the Element is quoted at 1500mW of output power. So you could potentially get much louder, cleaner volume.
  
 In short, I think as you try out different headphones, you'll find many that will not mate well with your existing Creative box. That is the reason I personally bought the JDS Labs Element. You may immediately notice more and cleaner volume with your current headphones.


----------



## Packdemon

curiousskeptic said:


> So while protecting my wallet and waiting for more reviews on this thing (which looks really pretty!) I dug out an old EMU 0404 USB to see if it could be used as a headphone amp for my DT 880 (250 Ohm). Seems it can.
> 
> I'm using this with ASIO4All, which i think is kind of unstable as foobar seems to get stuck a lot, but this setup at least gets to uncomfortably loud, compared with the internal sound card, not sure about quality, feels a bit dull, but I have no way to know if that's the music, equipment or just me
> 
> So a question to someone with a bit more experience. If I were to exchange the this EMU thing with the Element, what should I expect the difference to be?


 
 Well, if you were to wait a little longer and if we get a little bit more support then we can actually get this for a decent deal off a massdrop: https://www.massdrop.com/vote/jds-labs-dacamps


----------



## Valens7

I swear, the Element is just a monster with IEHs! I'm listening to my ASG-1Plus out of it right now, and the improvement over my iPhone is dramatic. Incredible soundstage depth/width, spot-on bass response, remarkable detail in the upper registers, and a squeaky clean midrange. Jointed together with my Therium cable from Norne Audio, I do believe that this pairing might be the best I've had the privilege of hearing!
  
 I know that all probably reads like a load of hype and nonsense, but, still, I felt like weighing in again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Element is such an immense value, that I don't mind giving it the attention.


----------



## trappedintime

packdemon said:


> Well, if you were to wait a little longer and if we get a little bit more support then we can actually get this for a decent deal off a massdrop: https://www.massdrop.com/vote/jds-labs-dacamps


 

 I voted for the Element weeks back. I hope more people do as well. I can wait on this, but it seems like for $250-$300, this would be a fantastic purchase and addition to my growing collection of gear.


----------



## jseaber

*@trappedintime:* The Element is $299 here. Also see discussion at post #107.


----------



## trappedintime

Appreciate the link, guess I missed that. And I see I can get the line out as well, which means I may add this to my Sony UDA-1 at work for a better DAC while still having an amp and speakers at my disposal. Sweet!


----------



## Packdemon

trappedintime said:


> Appreciate the link, guess I missed that. And I see I can get the line out as well, which means I may add this to my Sony UDA-1 at work for a better DAC while still having an amp and speakers at my disposal. Sweet!


 
 Well, technically if you used a cable or adapter like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GN76HAG or http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MWQBMYS then you still would be able to do that.


----------



## trappedintime

packdemon said:


> Well, technically if you used a cable or adapter like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GN76HAG or http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MWQBMYS then you still would be able to do that.


i just thought you wanted to avoid using the headphone out for passing the audio to an amp. Wouldn't there be a noticeable increase in the noise floor? Perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about as I haven't attempted such a setup before.


----------



## Packdemon

trappedintime said:


> i just thought you wanted to avoid using the headphone out for passing the audio to an amp. Wouldn't there be a noticeable increase in the noise floor? Perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about as I haven't attempted such a setup before.


 
 Not to the amp, out of it.


----------



## trappedintime

packdemon said:


> Not to the amp, out of it.


 

 No, I'm talking about running my iMac USB audio > Element > UDA-1 for my amp. I would be running the audio out of the Element's headphone jack, and that seems like it would add noise, and simply not be as good as adding RCA line out and feeding those to my amp.


----------



## Packdemon

trappedintime said:


> No, I'm talking about running my iMac USB audio > Element > UDA-1 for my amp. I would be running the audio out of the Element's headphone jack, and that seems like it would add noise, and simply not be as good as adding RCA line out and feeding those to my amp.


 
 I thought that the UDA-1 was a DAC? Besides, I'm pretty sure that you can't use the amp on the Element from it's built in ODAC, or at least that's what I've heard.


----------



## trappedintime

The UDA-1 is a DAC/amp, and not just a headphone amp, but a 2-channel stereo amp. I run bookshelf speakers to it when I'm not listening on my cans. So I want the Element to replace the single BB PCM1795 chip, and still be able to listen to music in my office with speakers. From what I can tell, this is a superior headphone amp, and probably a better DAC as well.


----------



## Packdemon

trappedintime said:


> The UDA-1 is a DAC/amp, and not just a headphone amp, but a 2-channel stereo amp. I run bookshelf speakers to it when I'm not listening on my cans. So I want the Element to replace the single BB PCM1795 chip, and still be able to listen to music in my office with speakers. From what I can tell, this is a superior headphone amp, and probably a better DAC as well.


 
 Ah, I see now. 
  
 This is a fairly new amp (I'd have to agree that it is indeed superior), but the DAC is the same RevB ODAC used in their other products (not sure if it has been revised at all though).
  
 @jseaber, would this work?:


trappedintime said:


> No, I'm talking about running my iMac USB audio > Element > UDA-1 for my amp. I would be running the audio out of the Element's headphone jack, and that seems like it would add noise, and simply not be as good as adding RCA line out and feeding those to my amp.


----------



## trappedintime

You may be right though, maybe I want to keep the RCA inputs and run my UDA-1's DAC to the Element and simply use it for the headphone amp. I could also see myself using this in my bedroom on the nightstand. I'm sure an amp this good would get some use however I work it into my setup.


----------



## loki993

I gotta be honest but I feel that buying this just to run as a DAC is a waste......


----------



## jseaber

packdemon said:


> @jseaber, would this work?:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd try: iMac USB > UDA-1 > Element RCA Line-in. The UDA-1 will remain your speaker amp, and the Element will serve as your headphone amp.
  
 If you want to feed the UDA-1 from a DAC other than its own, Element will largely be unused. An ODAC (or any standalone DAC) is more logical here.


----------



## trappedintime

THANKS @jseaber


----------



## shigzeo

loki993 said:


> I gotta be honest but I feel that buying this just to run as a DAC is a waste......


 

 While its DAC is very good, I agree. Its headphone amp is so damn good that it is a shame to skip it.


----------



## Packdemon

I'm sure that he'll still be using it as a headphone amp. While at the same time he could run that other configuration of using his Element's ODAC as the DAC for the UDA-1. Nothing is wasted.


----------



## WCDchee

shigzeo said:


> While its DAC is very good, I agree. Its headphone amp is so damn good that it is a shame to skip it.




I agree, while I have not tried the dac section, the amp section of the element is really pretty damn solid. Sure I won't expect it to beat amps in the kilo buck range, but at that price range, it's very impressive and a great, great listen. In fact if you ask me, the amp of the element sounds much better and much more refined than any of the dedicated schiit mid tier amps (Valhalla, Asgard, lyr)


----------



## trappedintime

I thought I could still plug into the headphone jack and use it even if I'm using line outs to another amp. But after evaluating the ODAC vs UDA-1, I'm convinced that BB DAC chip is superior. It also means I can probably enjoy better audio quality with the Element and have a better headphone amp in my office while maintaining the stereo amp > bookshelf speakers when I want them. The Sony headphone amp is by no means bad, but spec wise it doesn't match up to the Element. Also probably means I'll get the Element faster with no customization. Think I may pull the trigger on a B-stock unit this weekend. If so, l'll let everyone know how it works out for me once I have it.


----------



## WCDchee

trappedintime said:


> I thought I could still plug into the headphone jack and use it even if I'm using line outs to another amp. But after evaluating the ODAC vs UDA-1, I'm convinced that BB DAC chip is superior. It also means I can probably enjoy better audio quality with the Element and have a better headphone amp in my office while maintaining the stereo amp > bookshelf speakers when I want them. The Sony headphone amp is by no means bad, but spec wise it doesn't match up to the Element. Also probably means I'll get the Element faster with no customization. Think I may pull the trigger on a B-stock unit this weekend. If so, l'll let everyone know how it works out for me once I have it.




To be honest, while double amping may not be as good as taking a true line out from the RCA, it's actually nowhere near as bad as people Make it out to be. Unless the amplifier is total crap, most amplifiers are capable of putting out high quality unloaded signals (signals where the load is very high impedance. Thus when you double amp, it's actually pretty close to the line out signal. Of course there will be colouration, but it should not be too significant unless the amp is very coloured.


----------



## shigzeo

wcdchee said:


> To be honest, while double amping may not be as good as taking a true line out from the RCA, it's actually nowhere near as bad as people Make it out to be. Unless the amplifier is total crap, most amplifiers are capable of putting out high quality unloaded signals (signals where the load is very high impedance. Thus when you double amp, it's actually pretty close to the line out signal. Of course there will be colouration, but it should not be too significant unless the amp is very coloured.


 

 I doubt most non-bats would be able to tell the difference.


----------



## Packdemon

I just got the B-Stock Element today, and I could not for the life of me spot the cosmetic imperfections that were supposed to be on there. I'm glad that JDSLabs has this high of a level of attention to detail. I can't say if anyone else's will be the same as mine, but it was well worth the $50 difference. Also this knob is so much fun! XD


----------



## Packdemon

So is the headphone out supposed to get disabled when using the RCA jacks? Also I can't seem to get audio out of the RCA jacks (I used a 2xRCA to 3.5mm cable to test them on my headphones), are they only supposed work with an amp plugged in or speakers or something?


----------



## sheldaze

packdemon said:


> So is the headphone out supposed to get disabled when using the RCA jacks? Also I can't seem to get audio out of the RCA jacks (I used a 2xRCA to 3.5mm cable to test them on my headphones), are they only supposed work with an amp plugged in or speakers or something?


 
 The default operation of The Element is output only to the headphone, which is never disabled:
  

USB input converted from digital to analog, and output to the headphone.
Once RCA is connected, analog pass thru of the sound from RCA to the headphone.
  
 The default operation is no output from the RCA. You'll need to look through the thread for the means to switch. IIRC most users opted to have this switch made at the factory because it was not straightforward. It did not appear to be a simple switch that you would turn on and off. It was more of a permanent switch to output from RCA.


----------



## loki993

packdemon said:


> I just got the B-Stock Element today, and I could not for the life of me spot the cosmetic imperfections that were supposed to be on there. I'm glad that JDSLabs has this high of a level of attention to detail. I can't say if anyone else's will be the same as mine, but it was well worth the $50 difference. Also this knob is so much fun! XD




Mine had what could maybe be described as a slight nick in the coating on the front of the unit. It may not even be a nick, more like a bump in the coating or something, was all I could find. 

So far, and I haven't used it a lot yet, it sounds good but a but tight? There isnt as much instrument separation as I was expecting. It could just take some time to open up..who knows.It could also totally be its exposing my crappy internet music too....


----------



## trappedintime

sheldaze said:


> The default operation of The Element is output only to the headphone, which is never disabled:
> 
> 
> USB input converted from digital to analog, and output to the headphone.
> ...


it comes with RCA IN, not RCA out. You have to choose that for your model but it will never do both.


----------



## sheldaze

trappedintime said:


> it comes with RCA IN, not RCA out. You have to choose that for your model but it will never do both.


 

 Can you answer @Packdemon question with regards to disabling the headphone and RCA outputs? It was post #312. I have the default setup, with RCA used as input, so I've no clue.


----------



## jconde

So, given aa choice, would you get the Element or the O2+ODAC and why?


----------



## Packdemon

There is an ODAC in the Element, so I think I'd be fine drilling a hole in the back of the chassis and fit a 3.5mm jack onto there then I'll solder in some wires to the output contact point from ODAC to the 3.5mm jack. That way I'd have a dedicated line out. What do you guys think?


----------



## Packdemon

jconde said:


> So, given aa choice, would you get the Element or the O2+ODAC and why?


 
 Well, I've already owned quite a few O2+ODACs, and I got an Element recently that I now use as my daily driver instead... hope that answers your question


----------



## Packdemon

So, I took off the rubber feet of my Element, and unscrewed the phillips head screws, so I could look at the internals. When I tried lifting the pcb board  there seemed to be quite some resistance, so I gave up as not to break anything. Does anyone know of a way to take apart the Element? I need access to the board, so I can solder in a 3.5mm line out from the ODAC.
  
 Maybe I'll have to take off the knob somehow, I really don't want to force it though.
  
 Or maybe I'll have to unsolder these rca jacks, and then pull them out somehow, assuming that's even the way they got them in there in the first place.
  
 In any case, I'd rather wait to be informed then to try something rash. This element is seriously hard to get into, you really can't be sure the order at which JDSLabs put together this thing. It seriously isn't as modder friendly as the O2+ODAC, but I guess that was to be expected.


----------



## Wil

Any thoughts on powering sensitive IEMs with this baby?


----------



## reiserFS

Would be interesting if anyone tried to pair the Element with the ATH-W1000x. Any thoughts on this particular combo?


----------



## compddd

Does the Element ship from Reno NV by any chance?


----------



## gyx11

Heard this at a shop the other day.
  
 First and most obviously, the amp is stunning. I've always been a minimalist at heart and that applies to design as well. I don't really like the sight of tubes popping out like sore thumbs (yea well I suppose it might be beautiful in a geekish sorta way for some) so the Element was almost by default going to be one of the nicest amps aesthetically that I could find.
  
 Build quality as well was excellent. Connectors and the volume knob were really nice. Nothing seemed cheap or loose or wobbly.
  
 Unfortunately my actually play time with the Element was super limited because I spent quite a bit of time auditioning the Campfire Audio Lyra, and when I did move over to the Element, the shop lady told me her mouse for the Mac (which the Element was connected to) was wonky. She got it fixed for me but I only used it for 3-4 minutes before it died again, so take my sound impressions with a pinch of salt:
  
 To me it's a very neutral DAC/Amp, not unlike the O2/ODAC. Don't think any particular frequency range stood out for me, and in fact I can't really find the words to describe the sound. Those who are accustomed to tube goodness should probably stay away. I was using it with my Earwerkz Supra 2s, which is obviously overkill for The Element, but it was the only thing I had on me which I knew well enough to use to test gear. I paused the music and turned the volume knob near its max and even then there wasn't a lot of noise. Audible, but not bothersome at all.
  
 I've not been following this thread too closely but I presume The Element is foremost a desktop amp with a DAC inbuilt, but in all I think the unit was excellent value for those whom like a no-frills setup. Perhaps quite disappointing was the lack of outputs, but at this pricepoint I guess there can't be too much complaint.


----------



## Musicdiddy

Hello guys I wonder if anyone can help with my little problem please. I have just purchased the Element to use with my Sony ZX2 and have ordered a RCA to mini cable plus a WM port adaptor so that I can use the amp section of the Element. However I did not realize that to use the dac section I need an optical cable and just wondered if other members know of a cable that will connect the ZX2 to the Element?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Wil

gyx11 said:


> Heard this at a shop the other day.
> 
> First and most obviously, the amp is stunning. I've always been a minimalist at heart and that applies to design as well. I don't really like the sight of tubes popping out like sore thumbs (yea well I suppose it might be beautiful in a geekish sorta way for some) so the Element was almost by default going to be one of the nicest amps aesthetically that I could find.
> 
> ...


 


 Connect IT i suppose? 

 I'm looking for a desktop solution for my AAW W500 when it comes in (Overkill too - i know), but i do have a pair of Grado RS1s that need amplification as well.
  
 Great to hear that it is quiet with IEMs too. 
  
 I might have to jump on this....i pity the wallet.


----------



## sheldaze

musicdiddy said:


> Hello guys I wonder if anyone can help with my little problem please. I have just purchased the Element to use with my Sony ZX2 and have ordered a RCA to mini cable plus a WM port adaptor so that I can use the amp section of the Element. However I did not realize that to use the dac section I need an optical cable and just wondered if other members know of a cable that will connect the ZX2 to the Element?
> 
> Thanks


 
 I am unsure what you are referring to? The DAC input is from USB, such as from iTunes on a computer. The USB cable is provided.


----------



## Musicdiddy

sheldaze said:


> I am unsure what you are referring to? The DAC input is from USB, such as from iTunes on a computer. The USB cable is provided.


 
 I probably would not use the Element with a computer and thought I could use my ZX2 as the source but using the Eelement's dac instead of the dac on the Sony. Perhaps I am being a complete noob here and not understanding how this works!


----------



## shigzeo

Element can use even the iPhone, so maybe a ZX2 has USB output compatible with The Element. In which case: shazzam!


----------



## sheldaze

musicdiddy said:


> I probably would not use the Element with a computer and thought I could use my ZX2 as the source but using the Eelement's dac instead of the dac on the Sony. Perhaps I am being a complete noob here and not understanding how this works!


 

 Well, you can call me a newbie on the ZX2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It looks like a fantastic player, so why not use it's internal DAC and send it via analog into the Element, when you want to drive more _resistant _headphones?
  
 I see there is a USB port on the ZX2, but I wouldn't know if it works? I've seen mixed success with non-Apple devices.


----------



## Packdemon

If still been trying to take apart the Element, but I can't manage to do it. I'm still afraid that I might break something. When I try to pull out the board there is just too much flex, and since it doesn't come out by using gravity I'd rather not force it as it seems to be anchored by the rca jacks and quite possibly the volume knob. Please can someone help me with this?


----------



## Packdemon

mudokon said:


> The jumpers are right there, on the bottom of the PCB. They are labelled SJ1 and SJ3. Just apply some solder.


 
 Can I still use the headphone output at the same time that I use the DAC output in this configuration?


----------



## Packdemon

packdemon said:


> Can I still use the headphone output at the same time that I use the DAC output in this configuration?


 
 Update - I just jumped it, and it works the way that I expected. I lost the rubber feet though. Does anyone know where I can order some of the exact same kind?


----------



## fuzzybaffy

Can anyone speak on the DAC section of the Element? Is it really an ODAC as someone mentioned? If so, does anyone know how it compares to the Matrix M-Stage _standalone_ DAC? I'm not talking about the cheap USB portion that's included in some of the M-Stage amps, but there is a separate DAC portion that Matrix sold for around $300 when it first came out. 
  
 I ask, because I have the Matrix M-Stage stack, and while I'm sure I won't use the M-Stage amp anymore, I'm wondering if I should use the M-Stage DAC with the Element, or just use the Element (DAC + Amp) completely on its own. Can anyone comment on this?


----------



## shigzeo

If it had a poor DAC section, it would measure poorly. If it had a poor headphone amp section, it would measure unstably. It measures neither poorly nor unstably. Both its DAC and HPA are pretty much perfect.


----------



## sheldaze

fuzzybaffy said:


> Can anyone speak on the DAC section of the Element? Is it really an ODAC as someone mentioned? If so, does anyone know how it compares to the Matrix M-Stage _standalone_ DAC? I'm not talking about the cheap USB portion that's included in some of the M-Stage amps, but there is a separate DAC portion that Matrix sold for around $300 when it first came out.
> 
> I ask, because I have the Matrix M-Stage stack, and while I'm sure I won't use the M-Stage amp anymore, I'm wondering if I should use the M-Stage DAC with the Element, or just use the Element (DAC + Amp) completely on its own. Can anyone comment on this?


 
 I do not have nor have I ever heard the M-Stage DAC. I have done my own independent comparison, using The Element as an AMP/DAC versus using it just as an AMP with an external DAC. My preference was, it depends! I preferred the Meridian Explorer2 over the internal DAC in The Element. But I preferred the internal DAC over the HRT microStreamer. I would probably need to do the comparison again, because I was using Sennheiser HD650 headphones. And my personal views on these headphones have changed, now that I prefer a more revealing headphone sound.
  
 I'm rambling - sorry. My question to you - why cannot you also do the same comparison for yourself, using your external DAC and your single-ended headphones? Find out for _yourself_ which you prefer and go with that! My summary statement would be, I would never hesitate to use The Element as an AMP/DAC. In fact, I'm thinking of keeping this bedside because it can be driven from an iPhone. So it'll make for a fantastic looking and sounding, compact bedside unit.


----------



## fuzzybaffy

> I'm rambling - sorry. My question to you - why cannot you also do the same comparison for yourself, using your external DAC and your single-ended headphones? Find out for _yourself_ which you prefer and go with that!


 
  
 You are absolutely correct. I guess I just got anxious and wanted to know before I received the item. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 It's also interesting that you have the HD-650, since I have a pair of those, too.
  
 Anyway, I guess I'll just have to wait and see what DAC I prefer on my own! I can write impressions here if people would like. 
  
 Thanks for your input sheldaze!


----------



## fuzzybaffy

One more question (about a product I don't have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  
 Can anyone confirm if the amp section of the the Element actually measures better than the Schiit Asgard 2, or am I just reading things incorrectly? I know measurements don't say everything, and doesn't determine whether someone will prefer one thing over another subjectively, but I'm still curious...


----------



## Shogster

Has anyone tried it with a pair of speakers and a sub?I plan on ordering one with dac output,so i can use it with my speakers and sub.I have the Fiio E10k now,and the sound is very good,but i have been thinking about an upgrade for some time now,and i really like the element.Will the sound quality improve not only when using it with headphones?As for the headphones,im using the ATH M50X right now,but im also thinking about going with a pair of open headphones,like the Fidelio X2's or a Beyerdynamic.If anyone can share some experience with either of those,would be great.


----------



## Packdemon

shogster said:


> Has anyone tried it with a pair of speakers and a sub?I plan on ordering one with dac output,so i can use it with my speakers and sub.I have the Fiio E10k now,and the sound is very good,but i have been thinking about an upgrade for some time now,and i really like the element.Will the sound quality improve not only when using it with headphones?As for the headphones,im using the ATH M50X right now,but im also thinking about going with a pair of open headphones,like the Fidelio X2's or a Beyerdynamic.If anyone can share some experience with either of those,would be great.


I've been using the DAC output for my subwoofers while having my headphones plugged into the headphone output, and overall that configuration has been running great and I've had no issues whatsoever. You have my blessing  so just go for it.


----------



## compddd

Can I use the RCA inputs on The Element to drive some desktop speakers in addition to my headphones?


----------



## Packdemon

compddd said:


> Can I use the RCA inputs on The Element to drive some desktop speakers in addition to my headphones?


 
 Well first you need them to be RCA outputs, and second if the speakers aren't already powered you'll need to take that line out to a speaker amplifier input then take the line out from the speaker amp to your speakers.


----------



## fuzzybaffy

fuzzybaffy said:


> One more question (about a product I don't have
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Anyone? The spec sheet for JDS Element amp is here: https://www.jdslabs.com/products/151/the-element/, while the spec sheet for the Asgard 2 is here: http://schiit.com/products/asgard-2. It seems the Element is better at THD, Crosstalk, SNR, but again... I'm not sure if I'm reading the values correctly or not. 
  
 I already purchased the Element, and it's going to be on my way here. And I bought it used so it's not like I can return it or anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm just curious how it stacks up to the competition...


----------



## compddd

If I have JDS Labs change the RCA's to outputs would my speakers be muted when connecting my headphones to the front of the Element?


----------



## johnzz4

Figured I'd break up the technical questions...  I recently got a different DAC/amp and my son said "Can I have the cool little black one?"  Thought I'd share a pic of the Head-fier in training.


----------



## fuzzybaffy

Just some quick impressions on the Element, which I'll be comparing to the Matrix M-Stage (original), with both connected to the M-Stage standalone DAC (not the cheap USB part that's included in some of the M-Stage amps), for the most part. 
  
 It seems there's a tiny bit more detail in the treble with the Element, whereas the M-Stage is a little smoother and tighter sounding in the mids. The M-Stage, however, has a bit of a darker sound, whereas the Element is more neutral-sounding. It's just like someone else said - it's as if the Element doesn't want to be "overly analytical", so it doesn't overdo the treble, which would explain that kind of "linear" sound. 
  
 Depends on what you're looking for, I guess. For songs with instrumentals and percussion, the Element will sound crisper and energetic. For songs that have a lot of vocals, perhaps the Matrix would be better. 
  
 For me personally, I'm more into dance music/modern pop, so I think the Element works better for me. I'm liking it so far! 
  
 And, of course... these are just super early impressions, and I may be wrong. But they do line up with what other people have said!


----------



## Shogster

johnzz4 said:


> Figured I'd break up the technical questions...  I recently got a different DAC/amp and my son said "Can I have the cool little black one?"  Thought I'd share a pic of the Head-fier in training.



Is that an X2's on the little audiophile's head? How do you like them with the Element?


----------



## johnzz4

shogster said:


> Is that an X2's on the little audiophile's head? How do you like them with the Element?


 
 Yeah it is.  They make a great pairing..  My only criticism of the Element is the smaller soundstage compared to higher priced offerings.  Since the X2's have such a large soundstage, they work very well together.


----------



## francisco Z

Hey I have an HD700 and I'm loving the soundstage straight out of my fiio x5, but I want more is this amp/dac that bad with soundstage or what amps/dac would improve soundstage over the element in this price range?


----------



## inseconds99

Anyone use or have auditioned the TH900's with The Element? I am interested in buying this Dac/Amp but I want to make sure it does not make the Th900's treble any more harsh then they already are.
  
 EDIT: 500th Post YEA


----------



## fuzzybaffy

Yes, I'm actually using the Element with the TH-900. 
  
 I can't say whether they will make the treble harsher, since I don't know what your Amp/DAC sounds like, and I don't know what your tolerances are with treble in general, but as mentioned in my impressions, it seems obvious to me that JDS Labs was deliberate in making the Element sound clear and detailed, without going overboard on the treble. 
  
 To me, the TH-900 does not sound all that bright or harsh with the Element. But of course, it's completely subjective. I also came from a relatively warmer/less bright headphone amp, the Matrix M-Stage, and the switch to the Element hasn't been bad. At least, to my ears.


----------



## johnzz4

francisco z said:


> Hey I have an HD700 and I'm loving the soundstage straight out of my fiio x5, but I want more is this amp/dac that bad with soundstage or what amps/dac would improve soundstage over the element in this price range?


 
 I have the Element and the Gustard H10.  The Gustard as a much larger soundstage, but you'll need to pair it with a DAC (maybe an ODAC).  I haven't listened to the ODAC, but I did an A/B between the headphone amps (Element and H10) using my Nuforce HDP as a DAC, so I know the increased soundstage size came from the H10.
  
 Recently got the Audio-gd M11, so I haven't used the H10 in a while, but it's amazing for the price.


----------



## Packdemon

Noob question: how is the DAC supposed to affect the soundstage?


----------



## francisco Z

Sorry for being so defensive, so like I said Im asking because Im not an expert on the matter, but DACs just turn the digital signal to analog, and with the exception of resolution not much of the sound changes, so a good  DAC will provide a high quality untainted  source that the amp can take and do practically anything with. Don't ask me about the science behind why, but I know from reading hundreds of amp discussion threads and personal experience that amplifiers can change soundstage dramatically.  I own the fiio X5 and a fiio e12.  The soundstage on the X5 is delightful, its open with good instrument placement, and decent spacing.  My hd700 Fiio x5 is so good that I can literally point to the instruments around me.  Now do the same thing with an e12 as an external amp on the X5 with it hooked up to the line out and the soundstage is crushed,  I could practically do better with earbuds the soundstage was so small.  I never used the e12 again.  And now I want something that actually delivers in terms of soundstage hence why Im here asking about the soundstage on the Jds labs Element.


----------



## Packdemon

francisco z said:


> Sorry for being so defensive, so like I said Im asking because Im not an expert on the matter, but DACs just turn the digital signal to analog, and with the exception of resolution not much of the sound changes, so a good  DAC will provide a high quality untainted  source that the amp can take and do practically anything with. Don't ask me about the science behind why, but I know from reading hundreds of amp discussion threads and personal experience that amplifiers can change soundstage dramatically.  I own the fiio X5 and a fiio e12.  The soundstage on the X5 is delightful, its open with good instrument placement, and decent spacing.  My hd700 Fiio x5 is so good that I can literally point to the instruments around me.  Now do the same thing with an e12 as an external amp on the X5 with it hooked up to the line out and the soundstage is crushed,  I could practically do better with earbuds the soundstage was so small.  I never used the e12 again.  And now I want something that actually delivers in terms of soundstage hence why Im here asking about the soundstage on the Jds labs Element.


 
 I didn't expect DACs to work in any ways that they realistically don't, but the thing that really confused me is that I thought that an amp could only affect the sound signature of your headphones. I had no idea that it could affect soundstage as well, so I was pretty much in disbelief. I mean it sounds crazy, that an amplifier can change how far you perceive to distance audio that you are hearing (like how closed- and open- backed headphones do), but an amplifier amplifying certain frequencies to be much louder than others doesn't seem to be wrong at all. That is why I found amps changing sound signature to be much wore believable. So what's the reasoning behind amps being able to affect soundstage anyways?


----------



## francisco Z

Like I said I don't know the science but check any amp discussion and soundstage of the amp will be a topic. Sound signature and soundstage are pretty much independent of each other unless you're packing ear splitting bass. The fiio e12 without the bass boost sounds really similar to the x5 in terms of sound signature, but the soundstage of the two are worlds apart.


----------



## zach915m

I just got my Element today, and I gotta say right off the bat I'm really impressed.  It's sitting next to my Master 11 on my desk, and even though I do all my measuring and final testing on the M11, I found myself going back and forth today and doing a lot of listening on the element with the ZMF Omni's I was completing.  As far as sound elements, I'll do more listening and comment on the specifics to soundstage and tonality later, but this is an incredibly impressive unit.  I haven't owned another unit that was such a win in terms of ergonomics, sound, ease of use, and aesthetic sexiness.
  
 If I had to sum up the sound in one word it would be "natural," which is what I strive for in tuning my headphones.  This guy will definitely be traveling with me to head-fi meets and shows as it's a no brainer given the footprint.  Great job Seabs and clan!


----------



## nottheface

Has anyone tried these with the AKG 7xx?  I hear the Element has a slightly warmer sound, so would pair well with any headphones that are commonly stated as pairing well with tube amps.


----------



## Shaffer

nottheface said:


> Has anyone tried these with the AKG 7xx?  I hear the Element has a slightly warmer sound, so would pair well with any headphones that are commonly stated as pairing well with tube amps.




I have 3 good tube amplifiers: a pair of OTLs and a transformer coupled amp. I also have some decent ss, along with the K7XX. I have not heard the Element, but there's a reason why I subscribe to this thread. 

To make it short and sweet, the K7XX sounds more like a HD650 than a K701/2. It responds well - and I mean offers sound quality on par with my expectations - only with the Feliks Elise. The other two tube amps compromise the sound in one way or another. The ss Meier Concerto, OTOH, gets the best out of these cans, period, at least that I've heard. If you're set on a tube amp, consider a LDIII/IV. It drives the K7XX fairly well and doesn't make the headphones sound muddy and overly thick. Personally, I'd take a shot at the Element. Good luck.


----------



## sheldaze

nottheface said:


> Has anyone tried these with the AKG 7xx?  I hear the Element has a slightly warmer sound, so would pair well with any headphones that are commonly stated as pairing well with tube amps.


 
  
 I listened to the AKG K7XX on my Element at a recent headphone meet and absolutely loved it! It solidified my desire to purchase the K7XX headphones. My K7XX headphones arrive later this week, so I'll listen to it again (soon) in a home setting.
  
 ::

 I'm honestly becoming less a fan of The Element as my personal tastes have changed, and I have found more accurate amplifier and DAC/amplifier options. The reason I so liked The Element was it did not punish my ears as some previous solid state amplifiers have done. It is extremely smooth and non-fatiguing. However I have found other (less expensive) amplifiers to have more detail retrieval without causing undue fatigue. And I have found other DAC/amplifier options at slightly higher cost to provide considerably more detail, again without harshness. So my original reasons for liking this amplifier have greatly diminished.


----------



## maxedfx

sheldaze said:


> I listened to the AKG K7XX on my Element at a recent headphone meet and absolutely loved it! It solidified my desire to purchase the K7XX headphones. My K7XX headphones arrive later this week, so I'll listen to it again (soon) in a home setting.
> 
> ::
> 
> ...


 can you PM me you other options and choices??


----------



## jayeshrc

I've got an element incoming, will get a review posted with all the audio gear possible, including the k7xx


----------



## canthearyou

I recently purchased a Meridian Director DAC from the classifieds. I have to say everything sounds absolutely amazing together!! These 400i are great headphones!


----------



## fuzzybaffy

Yea... I don't know. The more I listen to the Element, the more I'm liking it and appreciating it. 
  
 People have mentioned that the treble isn't as detailed as other amps, but it seems the guys at JDS, rather than going after more and more treble "detail", were going for an overall sound of "clarity", because the mids are remarkably clear. The treble detail and tweaks are there, but it's like they wanted to go for a more well-rounded sound and made the mids super clear as well, instead of trying to beat the treble over with a hammer. 
  
 I'm seriously surprised... it pairs really well with my TH-900.


----------



## jayeshrc

Irrespective of what the element is like, i can say first hand that JDS has the absolute best customer service, hands down.

The element i ordered will be here soon, will get a review/impressions up pretty soon!


----------



## ejoy

How does Element compare with Benchmark DAC1? I'm talking about SQ only. I already know the I/O differences.


----------



## adydula

Why is the knob glued on? 
  
 Alex


----------



## lowmagnet

ejoy said:


> How does Element compare with Benchmark DAC1? I'm talking about SQ only. I already know the I/O differences.


 
  
 Sound quality is comparable enough between the two, that I can't really tell a difference between them. Both drive both my HD650 and T50RP headphones well. They have different recommendations for how to set them up in the OS, so on DAC1 it's 100% volume, and with Element, it's -3dB.
  
 Before I used my macbook's output with my T50RP and they were merely passable. With real amplification, they have amazing control over bass that just wasn't there before. I've heard tell that the macbook actually has a 10Ω headphone output, so that may be a factor.
  
 Like the DAC1, the Element has fairly excellent volume tracking between channels, and both are perfectly quiet when adjusting the volume.


----------



## shigzeo

Really, I can't recommend the Element enough. It's true: some of its inputs are limiting, but overall, The Element really is gold. I did NOT expect the level of performance achieved through it, nor its power. Its knob, though, I wish it were a bit less rocky (on axis). 2nd generation versions with button-swappable input/output RCA circuits sound great. 

 Honestly, though, this thing nearly performs as flawlessly as an AK380, but is way more powerful.


----------



## SSL443

johnzz4 said:


> I have the Element and the Gustard H10.  The Gustard as a much larger soundstage, but you'll need to pair it with a DAC (maybe an ODAC).  I haven't listened to the ODAC, but I did an A/B between the headphone amps (Element and H10) using my Nuforce HDP as a DAC, so I know the increased soundstage size came from the H10.
> 
> Recently got the Audio-gd M11, so I haven't used the H10 in a while, but it's amazing for the price.


 
  
 How much larger of a soundstage are we talking? Cathedral vs closet? I'm interested because I'm considering pairing this with a planar magnetic headphone. As we all know, planars are generally on the small soundstage site of things.
  
 Any idea how this would compare for soundstage with the Schiit Magni 2U/Modi 2U stack? The H10 is an amp only, so it really isn't in the same price bracket as either the element or the Schiit stack.


----------



## johnzz4

ssl443 said:


> How much larger of a soundstage are we talking? Cathedral vs closet? I'm interested because I'm considering pairing this with a planar magnetic headphone. As we all know, planars are generally on the small soundstage site of things.
> 
> Any idea how this would compare for soundstage with the Schiit Magni 2U/Modi 2U stack? The H10 is an amp only, so it really isn't in the same price bracket as either the element or the Schiit stack.


 
  
 The H10 is substantially better for orthos IME and the soundstage difference is pretty significant.  The X2s were fine off the Element and the H10, but again the H10 won out.  I'll probably get shot for this, but the Element reminds me of a Camry - it's pretty good all around.  My son has been using the Element with the X2s and I think I'm going to hang on to it for him based on the form factor.  If size isn't an issue, then the H10 is quite a bit better all around IMO.  Some op amp rolling tailored the sound a bit more.


----------



## compddd

I see JDS Labs changed the base price to $330 and for $20 more you can change the RCA jacks to output which will according to their website, "Let you toggle between headphones and powered speakers at the push of a button."
  
 Forgive my ignorance but how does that work? I don't see any toggle button on the pictures of The Element on their website.


----------



## Dark_wizzie

Hmm, measurements look similar to that of the Objective? More or less. Or am I just looking at it all wrong?


----------



## Packdemon

dark_wizzie said:


> Hmm, measurements look similar to that of the Objective? More or less. Or am I just looking at it all wrong?


Read through the whole thread or search for the word objective within this thread. I'm sure that I'm speaking on the behalf of every one when I say that we are tired of answering an explaining the objective vs the element


----------



## Dark_wizzie

packdemon said:


> Read through the whole thread or search for the word objective within this thread. I'm sure that I'm speaking on the behalf of every one when I say that we are tired of answering an explaining the objective vs the element


 
 I flipped through like 5+ pages and saw nothing. But ok, I can do that for you.


----------



## Packdemon

dark_wizzie said:


> I flipped through like 5+ pages and saw nothing. But ok, I can do that for you.


My bad, search the thread for O2 and/or ODAC.


----------



## ejoy

Has anyone compared the Element with Apogee Groove? SQ wise can you say it "smash" the Apogee which is USB powered only?


----------



## shigzeo

From what I understand from Lachlan, the Groove is leagues below the Element. It isn't able to hold signal under load. The Element is as stable as is possible under all loads.


----------



## jayeshrc

For a size comparison - nexus 4 on the side


----------



## shigzeo

Wow, that's a cool logo.


----------



## sheldaze

Is the DAC in The Element powered by USB?
 If I were to power off The Element but keep the USB power on (such as through a powered hub), would this effectively keep the DAC powered on?
  
 The reason I am asking the first question is because my computer is not the best source for a USB-powered DAC. I would prefer to listen to the DAC through some kind of a buffer, such as a Wyrd, Regen, or other powered hub. The reason I'm asking the second question is I am simply trying to experiment leaving the DAC on for longer periods of time, but would prefer to power down the amplifier section if possible.
  
 EDIT: Nevermind…tried this myself. Yes and yes.


----------



## grizzlybeast

I got one of these from a fellow headfier. I wish I could push a button to toggle between using the RCAs as inputs or outputs.

Is that what the switch does? If not id rather have it as an input so i can use it with my ipad. Or maybe a usb to thunderbolt dongle can help. 

As of now the previous user had it set to rca as outputs for a standalone dac.


----------



## sheldaze

grizzlybeast said:


> I got one of these from a fellow headfier. I wish I could push a button to toggle between using the RCAs as inputs or outputs.
> 
> Is that what the switch does? If not id rather have it as an input so i can use it with my ipad. Or maybe a usb to thunderbolt dongle can help.
> 
> As of now the previous user had it set to rca as outputs for a standalone dac.


 
 I believe you can send these back for a retrofit. I asked the question in the other thread, and the response seemed positive:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/786118/latest-jds-labs-updates-for-the-element/15#post_12046780


----------



## Limtastic

Just received my Element with Automatic DAC Line Output! It's my first amp ever and I've gotta say I'm loving it! Turns out that the power button toggles the RCA input and output - pretty cool design though I'm not sure how I feel about it yet.


----------



## DrivenUnder

sheldaze said:


> Is the DAC in The Element powered by USB?
> If I were to power off The Element but keep the USB power on (such as through a powered hub), would this effectively keep the DAC powered on?
> 
> The reason I am asking the first question is because my computer is not the best source for a USB-powered DAC. I would prefer to listen to the DAC through some kind of a buffer, such as a Wyrd, Regen, or other powered hub. The reason I'm asking the second question is I am simply trying to experiment leaving the DAC on for longer periods of time, but would prefer to power down the amplifier section if possible.
> ...


 
  
 Is this really a concern? If the PC is outputting via ASIO, then what difference can the Wyrd make, for example? Forgive the ignorance, but we're still in the digital domain, so as long as DAC is supplied enough power and it's clock timings are good, then the output should be reliable. Maybe I need to read up on what the Wyrd does....
  
 If it's true that the DAC in the Element is giving a variable output as a result of unstable power from the USB bus, then I would think that any competent designer would have addressed that long ago, or am I just being naive? For $300, this is a huge concern, if that's the way it really is. I can somewhat believe it, as the DAC is step one in the reconstituted analog signal chain. If the analog output of the DAC is not living off the clean, stable power supply that the rest of the analog components are, then this seems like a major oversight.


----------



## sheldaze

drivenunder said:


> Is this really a concern? If the PC is outputting via ASIO, then what difference can the Wyrd make, for example? Forgive the ignorance, but we're still in the digital domain, so as long as DAC is supplied enough power and it's clock timings are good, then the output should be reliable. Maybe I need to read up on what the Wyrd does....
> 
> If it's true that the DAC in the Element is giving a variable output as a result of unstable power from the USB bus, then I would think that any competent designer would have addressed that long ago, or am I just being naive? For $300, this is a huge concern, if that's the way it really is. I can somewhat believe it, as the DAC is step one in the reconstituted analog signal chain. If the analog output of the DAC is not living off the clean, stable power supply that the rest of the analog components are, then this seems like a major oversight.


 

 Definitely a case of your mileage will vary.
  
 I have found that from my 2008 Mac laptop, it helps to have a more stable USB *power *source, when the thing I am driving uses that power coming from my laptop. It helps me to understand the architecture, and to make a more informed decision of whether or not I like a product, if I give that product the best opportunity to perform


----------



## DrivenUnder

Hrmmm...interesting. I'm still having a hard time rationalizing the idea that some DAC\amp combos would ever even consider using power from the USB bus to run any part of the DAC. let alone the analog stage. It seems stupid. If you have clean, filtered power on-board for the amp section, why leave such a hole for noise\variability to come in? Sure, some systems won't have any issues, but others will. I have to be missing something. Most of the designers I've spoken with are rabid about this kind of thing, and this is such a fundamental concept...ever hear of special dependence on initial conditions? The very _first _component in the analog signal chain could be compromised due what is almost always a variable and noisy power supply? It boggles the mind.
  
 @jseaber, this is surely not the case...


----------



## lowmagnet

drivenunder said:


> Hrmmm...interesting. I'm still having a hard time rationalizing the idea that some DAC\amp combos would ever even consider using power from the USB bus to run any part of the DAC. let alone the analog stage. It seems stupid. If you have clean, filtered power on-board for the amp section, why leave such a hole for noise\variability to come in? Sure, some systems won't have any issues, but others will. I have to be missing something. Most of the designers I've spoken with are rabid about this kind of thing, and this is such a fundamental concept...ever hear of special dependence on initial conditions? The very _first _component in the analog signal chain could be compromised due what is almost always a variable and noisy power supply? It boggles the mind.
> 
> @jseaber, this is surely not the case...


 
 I'd prefer the big old spool in the middle of older amplifiers to stabilize power into DC but a wall wart is also darn convenient. Apple have some really nice switching power supplies for charging their gear. Don't know about noise from their end, though. Also, my DAC1 has one of those toroid transformers and it *is* nice. That thing's heavy though. Element is much more portable and compact. I do wonder about protecting it from knob damage. The original box is a decent fit, might be travel gear too.


----------



## DrivenUnder

Well that's the rub, isn't it? Sure, it has nice, stable DC rail power via the wall-wart and rectification for the amp section, but that first crucial analog bit, if powered by USB bus power, could potentially introduce very audible noise, and there seems to be no reason to do that. As mentioned in the DC meet thread, that smacks of laziness, and that does not fit with my impression of how JDS does designs....but I could certainly be wrong. More likely, we are missing something. As the reviewers have noted, the sound is excellent. My worry is the statements by a few that have noted how much better the Element sounds with something like a Wyrd Schiit in the source chain. If the Element has (what seems to my small mind) a properly architected DAC, then USB bus power fluctuations and noise should have no effect on the sound, since there is stable power inside the case.
  
 Perhaps we could get John to respond and set the record straight. @jseaber


----------



## jseaber

limtastic said:


> Just received my Element with Automatic DAC Line Output! It's my first amp ever and I've gotta say I'm loving it! Turns out that the power button toggles the RCA input and output - pretty cool design though I'm not sure how I feel about it yet.


 
  
 Good to hear! To better communicate this feature:

  
  
  


drivenunder said:


> Well that's the rub, isn't it? Sure, it has nice, stable DC rail power via the wall-wart and rectification for the amp section, but that first crucial analog bit, if powered by USB bus power, could potentially introduce very audible noise, and there seems to be no reason to do that. As mentioned in the DC meet thread, that smacks of laziness, and that does not fit with my impression of how JDS does designs....but I could certainly be wrong. More likely, we are missing something. As the reviewers have noted, the sound is excellent. My worry is the statements by a few that have noted how much better the Element sounds with something like a Wyrd Schiit in the source chain. If the Element has (what seems to my small mind) a properly architected DAC, then USB bus power fluctuations and noise should have no effect on the sound, since there is stable power inside the case.
> 
> Perhaps we could get John to respond and set the record straight. @jseaber


 
  
 There are three possible design approaches one can take with respect to initial power conditions:
  

Assume 'average' input voltages. Subpar and excellent cases are ignored. Leaves the design vulnerable to variable performance.
Assume near worst case input voltages, covering a certain percentage of systems (let's approximate 99.9%). Designer adds plentiful regulation and iteratively tests to ensure consistent performance.
Assume 100% of inputs are unacceptable. Designer implements a separate power supply.
  
 In practice, there is *no difference* between the second and third set of design assumptions. At some point, power must come into the circuit and be distributed at desired voltages. Raw AC input (95-240VAC) is, by definition, a switching voltage supply, and must be stepped down and sufficiently regulated for use in audio. Note the following:
  

It's possible to produce noisy +5V rails from AC input.
It's possible to produce clean +5V rails from AC input.
AC power at your home or office is _not_ guaranteed to be clean. CE compliance directives EN6100-3 and EN6100-4 place restrictions on a device emissions and susceptibility, but again, we cannot assume AC power is perfect!
  
 To ensure that clean supply rails are derived from AC power, the designer sets criteria for PSRR utilizing an array of regulation to mitigate the anticipated incoming noise levels. This means: passive LC filters, linear LDOs, switching buck/boost circuits + post regulation, sufficient decoupling and bypassing, proper PDN layout of the PCB, etc.. Regardless of the implementation, it's the designer's responsibility to define and achieve supply requirements based on incoming noise and PSRR of the circuit(s).
  
 There's an understandable fear of switching supplies in the audio realm, which comes from poor design choices, and exceptional requirements from audiophiles (these two do not mix!). Switching power is perfectly acceptable as long as it's sufficiently regulated and avoids disturbing audio circuits. You'll find switching power supplies in nearly all portable equipment these days. Done right, an amp/DAC with switching supplies achieves higher output power, cleaner performance, and superior battery run time. For desktop audio, designers generally stick with linear regulation. It's easier, and we have an unlimited power budget (no need to overcomplicate a design). 
  
 Take a look at the above scenarios once more. A wise designer uses the _same approach_ in scenario (2) as he/she would for scenario (3). Power comes in, gets regulated, and feeds the end circuit. Consistent performance comes down to setting conservative design criteria.
  
  
 At this point, we're still generalizing. Let's now consider USB power.
  

USB +5V power is unpredictable (could be noisy, could be perfectly clean)
USB requirements are well documented. Still, designers assume that Rules Will Be Broken.
  
 And let's consider a USB DAC:
  

Most DACs demand +3.3VDC input (typically two 3.3V rails--one for analog and another for digital).
DAC output of 2.0VRMS = 2.828*2 = *5.656Vpp = +/- 2.828V = +2.828V and -2.828V.*
  
 Two things to think about here. First, the DAC input of 3.3VDC provides easy room for linear regulation: 5V-to-3.3V. Second, regardless of how the DAC receives +3.3VDC input (from USB +5V, or from a separate supply), most DACs contain their own, internal charge pumps to derive that negative 2.828V rail from the positive 3.3V analog supply. Yes, no matter what quality of 5V power we provide, the DAC contains a switching power supply!
  
 As for Element specifically, we spent significant time evaluating the circuits. Also note that Element contains the exact same chipset and BOM utilized by ODAC RevB, which is thoroughly documented and has proven resistant to less-than-stellar USB +5V supplies (actually, ODAC RevB came from Element prototyping). In summary, there's no need to resort to a separate 5V supply.


drivenunder said:


> Is this really a concern? If the PC is outputting via ASIO, then what difference can the Wyrd make, for example? Forgive the ignorance, but we're still in the digital domain, so as long as DAC is supplied enough power and it's clock timings are good, then the output should be reliable. Maybe I need to read up on what the Wyrd does....
> 
> If it's true that the DAC in the Element is giving a variable output as a result of unstable power from the USB bus, then I would think that any competent designer would have addressed that long ago, or am I just being naive? For $300, this is a huge concern, if that's the way it really is. I can somewhat believe it, as the DAC is step one in the reconstituted analog signal chain. If the analog output of the DAC is not living off the clean, stable power supply that the rest of the analog components are, then this seems like a major oversight.


 
  
 Not a concern. There's an entirely different USB topic which impacts jitter and dynamic range, and matters far more than the (well regulated) 5V supply discussed above. That discussion is reserved for an upcoming blog post.


----------



## DrivenUnder

@jseaber
  
 Thank you for the extremely thorough and helpful explanation. I knew I was oversimplifying things, and that this would be a basic concept to someone like you.
  
 SOOOoooo....without treading on the toes of your upcoming blog post on jitter and dynamic range, are the folks who claim the Wyrd to improve the Element's sound suffering from placebo effect? If I understand your excellent explanation, barring a regulated home power supply, the USB chain should be unimproved by the Wyrd, at least as far as the Element is concerned.


----------



## jseaber

drivenunder said:


> @jseaber
> 
> Thank you for the extremely thorough and helpful explanation. I knew I was oversimplifying things, and that this would be a basic concept to someone like you.
> 
> SOOOoooo....without treading on the toes of your upcoming blog post on jitter and dynamic range, are the folks who claim the Wyrd to improve the Element's sound suffering from placebo effect? If I understand your excellent explanation, barring a regulated home power supply, the USB chain should be unimproved by the Wyrd, at least as far as the Element is concerned.


 
  
 Yes, it's possible for a USB device like you mentioned to have real, audible benefits. That said, a shorter USB cable or a common, powered USB hub are often able to provide the same benefit. Again, it's incorrect to assume that USB +5V power is the de-facto source of noise.


----------



## DrivenUnder

My confusion deepens...these seem to be somewhat contradictory statements. Again, I'm missing something. The first statements make it sound like there would really be no benefit to reducing noise in the USB bus supplied +5V, and the second states that there would be sonic benefits.
  
 I apologize if these questions are obvious or basic, but I do sincerely appreciate the information and think it speaks very highly of JDS and you personally that you're willing to to dumb it down for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My guess is that the Wyrd (and others like it) do something other than just clean up the USB power....
  


> Originally Posted by *jseaber* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Two things to think about here. First, the DAC input of 3.3VDC provides easy room for linear regulation: 5V-to-3.3V. Second, regardless of how the DAC receives +3.3VDC input (from USB +5V, or from a separate supply), most DACs contain their own, internal charge pumps to derive that negative 2.828V rail from the positive 3.3V analog supply. Yes,_* no matter what quality of 5V power we provide, the DAC contains a switching power supply*_!
> 
> ...


 
  
  


jseaber said:


> Yes, it's possible for a USB device like you mentioned to have real, audible benefits. That said, a shorter USB cable or a common, powered USB hub are often able to provide the same benefit. Again, it's incorrect to assume that USB +5V power is the de-facto source of noise.


----------



## jseaber

drivenunder said:


>


 
  
 It's helpful to remember that this is not a black and white answer. Zoom in on any DC rail and you'll find ripple and deviations from the target voltage (USB or independent).
  
 I think you originally simplified to this model...
_USB +5V ---> 5V directly to DAC_
  
 ...and assumed the following model would be superior:
_Independent 5V supply --->  5V directly to DAC_
  
 An actual DAC supply chain looks more like this:
_5V Supply ---> LC Filtration ---> Multiple 3.3V LDOs with decoupling, bypass capacitors, and PCB layout with 4-layer plane capacitance & low inductance ---> DAC 3.3V-digital and 3.3V-analog inputs with additional decoupling --> DAC internal 1.8V LDO supply and charge pump to +/- rails_
  
 Proper filtration and regulation means whatever noise was present at the input should be filtered out. At least in a good design. Not all designs are good!
  
 So, additional supply regulation is beneficial when a circuit is subjected to noise outside of its designed regulation ability. Put another way: the quality of a DAC's regulation matters more than the power it is fed.
  


drivenunder said:


> My guess is that the Wyrd (and others like it) do something other than just clean up the USB power....


 
  
 Correct. The differential D+/D- signal also matters.


----------



## DrivenUnder

Some obstinate part of my brain is simply rejecting this logic (or illogic).The idea that a non-USB-powered desktop amp of ANY price would benefit from additional filtering\decoupling on the USB signal side makes my blood boil. This should not happen.
  
 The USB signal should arrive in _whatever _condition at the DAC\amp input plug and should be squeaky clean 1's and 0's when it arrives internally at the DAC. Irrespective of the format of the signal, there should be _no way_ that the USB signal is a contributing factor to SQ unless conditions were so bad that the digital data was lost in the noise. How long have we been doing digital now?
  
 I can somewhat understand if this happens with a tiny little dongle-style USB powered DAC\amp, but I just don't see why this should ever happen otherwise. At what price point can I say that regardless of the USB signal coming in, my DAC will be unaffected? Evidently $350 is not enough.
  
 There....now I'm all grumpy. Time for a Cragganmore and tunes...


----------



## DrivenUnder

Now that I'm relaxed and have a little nerve tonic flowing, let me state this another way....
  
 It is my contention that a well designed and implemented, self-powered USB DAC *should *do _nothing but suffer_ for any additional components added in the signal chain between digital source and input plug.
  
 If the USB cable is too long and inducing (RF noise), then a shorter cable will help (will also help jitter, but that is a topic for another day).
  
 If the DAC is asynchronous, then the 'decrapifier' or hub or whatever might even get in the way of the data stream back to the source. If it is synchronous, then your extra gadget will have introduced yet another clock to the system, which is normally not good.
  
 Without changing USB cables, if you add a...
  
 - iFi iPurifier
 - Audioquest Jitterbug
 - Uptone Audio Regen
 - Schiit Wyrd
 - Any Audio USB Stream Other Thing
  
 ....to your system and it demonstrably improves the sound, you either have....
  
 - a poorly designed DAC
 - a bad or too long cable or
 - a psychoacoustic predilection to thinking that more money = better sound. (in this case, by demonstrable I mean the weight of your wallet)
  
 Just in case this offends, I'm not trying to be offensive, especially if you have purchased one of aforementioned doo-dads. I refer back to my statement "_well designed and implemented DAC_". Done properly, a DAC should sneer at attempts to meddle with its signal with gadgetry. It may, however, reward you for providing it with a better source in the first place. I remain to be convinced that any of the gadgets listed can actually be perceived by the listener as an improved source, unless the clock in your source is outside the USB specs. Were this the case, it should be able to be shown via testing. Even our good friends with the S name are clear....this Schiit probably doesn't do anything. Here is their quote...
   





> There’s no reason this should make any system sound better. Although we can measure the difference in USB power supply noise, it really shouldn’t matter if the bits make it through. Despite this, some listeners have said that there are sonic benefits from using Wyrd. Us, we remain Swiss on the matter—we don’t do the hard sell by promising sonic nirvana. _http://schiit.com/products/wyrd_


 
  
 Whew....OK, that is off my chest. All this to say, if your DAC\amp runs off of the power supplied by the USB bus, it is sub-optimal. I did not get a super clear indication from John if the Element does or not, but there was this statement....


> An actual DAC supply chain looks more like this: _5V Supply ---> LC Filtration ---> Multiple 3.3V LDOs with decoupling, bypass capacitors, and PCB layout with 4-layer plane capacitance & low inductance ---> DAC 3.3V-digital and 3.3V-analog inputs with additional decoupling --> DAC internal 1.8V LDO supply and charge pump to +/- rails (by @jseaber)_


 
  
 From what I read in the statement, the DAC is does _seem_ to be running on USB bus power...


> As for Element specifically, we spent significant time evaluating the circuits. Also note that Element contains the exact same chipset and BOM utilized by ODAC RevB, which is thoroughly documented and *has proven resistant to less-than-stellar USB +5V supplies* (actually, ODAC RevB came from Element prototyping). In summary, *there's no need to resort to a separate 5V supply*. _(by @jseaber)_


 
 In my opinion, regardless of whether or not you can hear it, the Element appears to be compromised in the DAC power stage. I don't 100% agree that there is no reason to resort to a separate 5V supply, especially if it is so easy to come by on the PCB. I think the reason is plain for all to see...USB power can be crap for many reasons, and despite the cleanup done in the DAC,  if you use USB bus power to run the DAC, you have rendered your circuit susceptible to noise.
  
 For the record, I'm not an electronics engineer, and have probably oversimplified a great number of things in my attempt to understand this and provide some clarity. I welcome having holes poked in my theory, and would not take offense if I was told I'm all wet.... I've learned a ton today, and that makes me happy. I'm also happy to take delivery of my Element soon, as I believe the reviewers when they say it sounds fantastic, and it's gonna look very nice on my desk.


----------



## grizzlybeast

Not to derail all of this tech talk but......
  
 This THiNg sounds Great WitH plenty of PoWeR. 
  
 SHout out to JDS LABS FOR PUTTING OUT A GOOD PRODUCT!


----------



## jseaber

@DrivenUnder:
  


drivenunder said:


> Without changing USB cables, if you add a...
> 
> - iFi iPurifier
> - Audioquest Jitterbug
> ...


 
  
 Or, you have a prominent characteristic impedance mismatch between the USB host and your USB cable and/or DAC, and the differential data signal arrives at the DAC accompanied by excessive wave reflections, irrespective of the 5V power source, so those 0's and 1's are no longer perfect. Changing cables or adding a "purifier" alters wave reflections. A longer article on this topic will come later!


----------



## Bighappy

grizzlybeast said:


> Not to derail all of this tech talk but......
> 
> This THiNg sounds Great WitH plenty of PoWeR.
> 
> SHout out to JDS LABS FOR PUTTING OUT A GOOD PRODUCT!


 
  
 I wholeheartedly agree ...LOVE MINE AS WELL!!!!!


----------



## grizzlybeast

first impressions of my element​ The volume pot and build should be an example to others. Some may find it big but I love it. 
  
SOUND I will give a summary, but wish I had more headphones to test it with. There is tons of extension in the bass and highs. The bass has an appreciable amount of sub, mid, and upper bass that is fairly textured yet not as tight as maybe some totl stuff yet very tangible. Compared to the pulse infinity the upper bass and mid bass have more punch but it's not as solid and tight. I do find it a tad digital but detailed. The mids have a velvety texture to them and are quite full and very enjoyable but they aren't super snappy or liquid. There is a slight (very slight) haziness or something I can't describe well right now. Over all I get a very balanced yet musical sound that is detailed and textured but not liquid and black in background. The space around the instruments are okay and the sound stage seems like it needs to yawn a bit. The transparency is not the cleanest I have heard (haven't heard much really high end gear) but it's good enough to keep me satisfied. I had the original odac and don't remember it sounding this good but the balance seems similar yet with better bass and treble extension. I still find it can pull out my details well I just think if it was more snappy in the mid range with a blacker background it may do even better. For it's price it is excellent though. It reminds me of my cayin ha3 I had in technical abilities but without the tube sound. The highs I have read as being harsh or hard somewhere but that remains to be discovered for me. In fact I like how the highs extend but don't abrade. I remember (old memory) the bushmaster mkII I had being more liquid sounding with rounder, more natural vinyl like sound but less musical and balanced in the highs(darker), probably less detailed as well.
  
 The power on this thing makes me seem like the specs are wrong in our favor. Or maybe other gear I had was lying. I can't go all the way up on my ZMF OMNI on high gain no matter what the song. It's a simple, musical, and powerful beast. It makes for a very musical pairing with a balanced sound, full - ripe bass, sweet full mids, and detailed extended highs.Those that worry about bass being negatively effected by their gear need not worry at all. The kick drums are very firm and carved out and sub bass is readily present. 
  
 This is just from a couple of hours back and forth between my x infinity(no lps) SE out put. I think its an extremely easy recommendation.


----------



## jayeshrc

wow, i didn't think iem's would benefit from an amp/dac but ******* i was wrong. There's this lowish thump in the background of Cynic's Nunc Stans that i love listening to on other gear because i feel it in my jaw but it never had the same effect when i used my klipsch x10.
 listened to it with the element-x10 just now and holy ****, its there! not as much as with the other headphones but so much nicer sounding than before! 
 Its like theres now enough space for everything to have its own presence. Very nice stuff
  
 I dont use an EQ on any of my headphones/iems anymore. just let it play through the element.


----------



## Manhole

I got my element a few days ago and I am concerned about the amount of channel imbalance that I am hearing at low volumes.  I have several headphones that I have been trying (at low gain): Oppo PM-3 (~25ohms), Beyerdynamic DT770 pro (250ohms) and Beyerdynamic DT880 (600 ohm).  Obviously I can listen at higher volumes with the DT880's, but I actually prefer to use the oppos because it has a more listenable treble over time for me.
  
 With the DT880s I am still only able to listen at about 30-35% of the volume range, and even then it's very loud to me.  With the oppos I am down into the 10-15% volume range.  It's in this range and below that I hear the right side rapidly drop completely out compared to the left channel until it hits 0 where both channels are obviously silent.
  
 I recognize that having very low impedance headphones with an amp like this may just be a bad pairing for a person with my issues/tastes (low volume listening), but I wanted to double check before I return it because it's an amazing piece of equipment, and I love the company.
  
 An extra note for context is that I run an odac to a schiit asgard 2 at work and I do not have this imbalance issue with the same headphones (in roughly the same volume ranges).  I also have an odac/o2 combo that I will try tonight to see if I have the same issues, but I was using it previously and didn't notice any problems.  This is what makes me think maybe it's the unit?
  
 Anyway, my compliments on the gorgeous and generally excellent Element.  I am hoping I can make it work.


----------



## sheldaze

manhole said:


> I got my element a few days ago and I am concerned about the amount of channel imbalance that I am hearing at low volumes.  I have several headphones that I have been trying (at low gain): Oppo PM-3 (~25ohms), Beyerdynamic DT770 pro (250ohms) and Beyerdynamic DT880 (600 ohm).  Obviously I can listen at higher volumes with the DT880's, but I actually prefer to use the oppos because it has a more listenable treble over time for me.
> 
> With the DT880s I am still only able to listen at about 30-35% of the volume range, and even then it's very loud to me.  With the oppos I am down into the 10-15% volume range.  It's in this range and below that I hear the right side rapidly drop completely out compared to the left channel until it hits 0 where both channels are obviously silent.
> 
> ...


 
 Are you sure you're running in the lower of the two gain settings?
  
 Try clicking the gain button on the back to be certain. In low gain, you should have fairly good balance while still at low volume.


----------



## Manhole

I am definitely using low gain.  I originally thought I was being forced into lower volume ranges due to the gain so I clicked it and the volume got louder, heh.  Appreciate the thought though.


----------



## canthearyou

Mine has imbalance at very low volume. But I never listen to it that low.


----------



## jayeshrc

i didn't even notice imbalance until you pointed it out and i really lowered the volume all the way down to check. at less than 7'o clock and below i hear it (when the volume goes down really low below that its definitely there) but at not at any of the volumes i use while listening.

 Low gain, with my klipsch x10 i go between just under 9-10'o clock usually. Maybe email them and see what they have to say?


----------



## Manhole

I'll definitely email them (and the same sentiment I have sent to schiit).  I feel like I am in a weird niche spot of wanting a really nicely made (physical design as well as technical design) mid powered amp rather than all these 1.0W+ (at ~30ohms) amps.  I love the physical design of several available devices, but they simply overpower my devices/ears.
  
 I want to be able to use more than a 10% range on the volume knob on an amp.  I haven't been able to use anything above the halfway point on a volume knob on any of the desktop amps I've gotten in the last 3 years, and it appears that amps are simply getting more powerful overtime while headphones are typically getting more efficient (even audiophile grade headphones).
  
 I don't begrudge anyone wanting the more powerful amps (although I can't understand how anyone can be safely listening at some of these volumes), but I don't see a lot of options for clean audio at mid/low volumes these days. (aside from portable amps which typically have batteries, which I do use for travel, but don't want to use at my desk).
  
 In any case, I'll gather some more test points and see if I can make it work. I'll be sad if I have to send it back.


----------



## sheldaze

I agree, for the most part, that the advertising focus is on how much juice these amplifiers can swing. And it is often with sacrifice made to ability to drive low impedance or easily driven headphones. I personally have had no issues with the volume of the JDS Labs The Element.
  
 Have you considered a USB DAC/AMP with a digitally controlled volume? Or have you tried something with a volume control which either operates in the digital realm or through a stepped attenuator? Another option, which unfortunately just closed but is likely to re-open, is the Grace Design m9xx. I have read that volume is non-linear for the first 50 (perhaps percent, but not exactly clear what this means). The initial gradual rise in volume is specifically to allow for precise volume control with IEM, but would also work for your case. Then the volume rises much more rapidly (I guess 50 - 100) to provide ample power for headphone use.
  
 USB DAC/AMP can be relatively inexpensive. The other options are likely to cost considerably more than the JDS Labs The Element.


----------



## jseaber

@Manhole - Considering your low volume requirements, your difficulty originates at the DAC, not the amp. At unity gain and volumes below 40%, you're seeking a DAC signal which is 60% weaker than the average aftermarket DAC. 

You can either reduce DAC volume (at the PC, or via additional hardware attenuation), or pursue a weaker DAC. Most DACs will provide similar output voltage of 1.5-2.1VRMS. Since you listen in the range of 0 to 0.6VRMS, no DAC on the market will provide exactly what you hope to achieve. Thus, decreasing source volume is the only strategy to pursue. Good luck!


----------



## Manhole

ok, that's interesting.  When you mention that I should reduce DAC volume, do you just mean that I can lower the volume slider on my PC, or that I should get a different DAC that happens to output at lower VRMS?
  
 If the former,  I have a question about this, because I've seen a lot of conflicting information on the forums about PC volume. If I reduce the PC volume to 50% am I losing any sort of signal integrity when I amplify it back up?  Most threads that refer to the source (PC) volume suggest that it should be 100% so that's what I traditionally do.


----------



## Manhole

I'm slow in the mornings... I just reread your post that says that there are no DACs will the VRMS I am looking for.  So I guess I just have the question about lowering pc source volume and re-amplifying.


----------



## jseaber

manhole said:


> I'm slow in the mornings... I just reread your post that says that there are no DACs will the VRMS I am looking for.  So I guess I just have the question about lowering pc source volume and re-amplifying.


 
  
 Yes, you'll find contradicting information in this area. Short answer: it's perfectly fine to reduce PC volume as long as the DAC has a sufficiently high dynamic range (free of hiss).


----------



## Manhole

Thanks for the clarification.  What led me to buy the element for home listening is that when I plugged my headphones directly into my computer headphone jack, the sound was terrible.  I could immediately tell very clearly that the sound was inferior.  When I connected a portable dac/amp that I have, the sound instantly improved drastically.  I am not one to generally hear night/day differences in audio stuff, and I am generally very skeptical when it comes to some of the more intangible/subjective stuff that audiophiles tend to argue about.  I try to limit my equipment choices to things that address a clear problem (too much treble, audible distortion, clipping, etc) that I can clearly detect.  
  
 This afternoon I've been playing around, and it seems like I have to lower my pc volume to roughly 30-40% in order for me to use the volume knob on the Element at 9 o'clock (with my lower impedance headphones). At these settings, I am easily out of the range of the channel imbalance, and I think it sounds pretty good.  Easily better than the raw headphone jack previously mentioned, and I can't detect hiss or noise on the amount of casual listening I've done so far.
  
 So I guess if that setup doesn't raise any alarm bells I'll stick it out.  It feels slightly un-intuitive to lower the PC volume and raise the volume knob on the amp, but in any case it's an improvement over the onboard pc audio.  I just worry I'm overlooking an obvious solution to my problem that doesn't have me potentially neutering this device from operating optimally.


----------



## grizzlybeast

The more I listen the more I feel its a punchy and controlled sounding unit. first impressions are changing a bit.
 Because I don't have the LPS yet for my pulse infinity, I reach for this a lot more than my infinity. There is a lot better balance with the JDS. Warmer sounding. However, I wish it was a bit more dynamic and sweet sounding. It is always an engaging listen but there isn't much difference in sound levels. Most of the music seems upfront. That is probably what I meant by wanting a blacker background and used the wrong words at first. Overall though I am very satisfied still. On a first listen it wowed me. Its just that my more laid back songs can sound a bit forced at times.


----------



## sheldaze

grizzlybeast said:


> The more I listen the more I feel its a punchy and controlled sounding unit. first impressions are changing a bit.
> Because I don't have the LPS yet for my pulse infinity, I reach for this a lot more than my infinity. There is a lot better balance with the JDS. Warmer sounding. However, I wish it was a bit more dynamic and sweet sounding. It is always an engaging listen but there isn't much difference in sound levels. Most of the music seems upfront. That is probably what I meant by wanting a blacker background and used the wrong words at first. Overall though I am very satisfied still. On a first listen it wowed me. Its just that my more laid back songs can sound a bit forced at times.


 

 Really digging your impressions... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Trying to wrap up a review myself. One more amplifier en route to compare against. I think it takes a lot to surpass - meaning you have to go up-up-up in cost to get something considerably better. But your in-depth analysis does provide more insights for people to understand.


----------



## grizzlybeast

sheldaze said:


> Really digging your impressions...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I agree. Its got tons going for it.


----------



## cleg

I've made a video with brief impressions.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbLyz2Hf76g[/VIDEO]


----------



## PacoTaco

grizzlybeast said:


> I agree. Its got tons going for it.


 
 I had the standard Geek Pulse, and ended up accepting a trade for the JDS Element. I didn't really realize how bright and tinny the Geek Pulse sounded until I used the Element. All the ranges of frequency seem more in tune and balanced on the Element. The Element is like (minus the slightly lean towards brightness the O2 sometimes had) a super-O2 in a way. I kinda wish I still had my NFB-28 to compare, as this reminds me a lot of that amp.


----------



## jayeshrc

its interesting that the geek pulse has been getting not so favourable reviews, while the geek outs have glowing ones.

 how does the element compare to your NFB-15?


----------



## PacoTaco

jayeshrc said:


> its interesting that the geek pulse has been getting not so favourable reviews, while the geek outs have glowing ones.
> 
> how does the element compare to your NFB-15?


 

 The NFB-15 is a darkish, warmish amp that a decently raw sound. I like the Element more, however. I've sold the NFB-15 just recently. For the price though, the NFB-15 is damn good.


----------



## Hachiroku

Hi folks, could someone perhaps give me some quick advice ? Someone mentioned these struggle with some 600Ohm headphones, is this true ? Hoping to get some 600Ohm DT990's at some point, would they be okay with this one ? Would also like to know how the bass behaves with the element. Ty in advance!


----------



## cleg

hachiroku said:


> Hi folks, could someone perhaps give me some quick advice ? Someone mentioned these struggle with some 600Ohm headphones, is this true ? Hoping to get some 600Ohm DT990's at some point, would they be okay with this one ? Would also like to know how the bass behaves with the element. Ty in advance!




This pretty little DAC/amp have really lots of power. I've tried it with 600 ohm 880, and it drives them really easily. As for bass, The Element leans more to neutral side, but I likes it's bass speed and texture, so for me it's really nice option


----------



## francisco Z

How would one of these pair with a slightly bright hd700? Bear in mind the hd700 sounds nothing like the hd600 so it would be difficult to compare it to them.


----------



## Hachiroku

@cleg thank you very much for the feedback ! I'm currently torn between the element and the vali/m2u. I'd have one more question, if you were to compare them just by their DAC's alone, which one would you choose ? Are the added coaxial ports an improvement compared to USB ?


----------



## cleg

hachiroku said:


> @cleg
> thank you very much for the feedback ! I'm currently torn between the element and the vali/m2u. I'd have one more question, if you were to compare them just by their DAC's alone, which one would you choose ? Are the added coaxial ports an improvement compared to USB ?




I didn't heart any of Schiit


----------



## Haris Javed

deleted


----------



## Haris Javed

haris javed said:


> Hi - I will leave my two cents here
> 
> I think for 600OHM 990DT you might want to look at something with more power. I run my 250OHM DT 990 and for my taste it seems that it lacks the bass punch, however the neutrality is great. On Schiit Lyr my 990 sound awesome but with the beagle boys tubes, they sound very lean on the standard GE tubes. You really need an amp that helps equal out the 990 sound signature since it is a very V- shaped headphone, and it also needs power for the bass impact. 990 is tremendously bassy with the right amp.


 
  
 Sorry - ignore my last post. This handles the 250 OHM 990 DT extremely well! - I think it will provide ample current @ 600 OHM.


----------



## shigzeo

haris javed said:


> Sorry - ignore my last post. This handles the 250 OHM 990 DT extremely well! - I think it will provide ample current @ 600 OHM.


 

 It does and it will.


----------



## Hachiroku

Thanks a lot for the feedback folks ! It seems there's another issue which I hadn't been aware until recently, is anyone actually using DT990s or 880s with the Element ? If so, is the treble on them bearable with the element combo ? Or do you like really need something warm with the beyers ?


----------



## Thazzz

Like DAC is better than ODAC or is the same?


----------



## Haris Javed

hachiroku said:


> Thanks a lot for the feedback folks ! It seems there's another issue which I hadn't been aware until recently, is anyone actually using DT990s or 880s with the Element ? If so, is the treble on them bearable with the element combo ? Or do you like really need something warm with the beyers ?


 
  
 lol - that depends on your ear sensitivity. To me the highs are tamed with the Element (990DT) - but to you it might sound different


----------



## Pings

Took the plunge. The JDS Labs Element will be my 1st DAC+AMP. It comes Thursday.


----------



## zambz

I hope it's okay if I ask a few questions about this unit:
  
 1. Based on reviews and specs, this is still an extremely neutral amp (much like the O2), is that correct?
 2. Exactly what DAC chip is used in this unit?
 3. Does the large volume knob control speaker volume when using the RCA outputs on the back?
 4. Could it power power hungry headphones like the LCD-2 and HD650 adequately?
 5. What are the low and high gain switches equivalent to? (e.g. 1.0x for low and 2.5x for high?)
  
 I'm between this and the O2 amp/dac.
  
 Thanks a lot
 zombz


----------



## sheldaze

zambz said:


> I hope it's okay if I ask a few questions about this unit:
> 
> 1. Based on reviews and specs, this is still an extremely neutral amp (much like the O2), is that correct?
> 2. Exactly what DAC chip is used in this unit?
> ...


 

I've never heard the O2. My guess is The Element is a little warmer, based solely on the reviews of the O2 sounding quite similar to the Schiit Magni. Both the O2 and Magni are neutral, while I have heard The Element and would call it slightly warm.
ODAC rev B
No
It has plenty of power!
1x and 4.7x (I forgot - and had to look back at my review)
  
 The DAC is the ODAC rev B, but I do believe the amplifier is different.


----------



## zambz

sheldaze said:


> I've never heard the O2. My guess is The Element is a little warmer, based solely on the reviews of the O2 sounding quite similar to the Schiit Magni. Both the O2 and Magni are neutral, while I have heard The Element and would call it slightly warm.
> ODAC rev B
> No
> It has plenty of power!
> ...


 
  
 Thanks so much, I have heard the same thing re your answer to 1 from the Australian distributor of JDS labs.  Point 3 is a bummer to be honest, not sure why they wouldn't do that.
  
 Really appreciate your reply!! Have a great new years eve 
 zambz


----------



## jayeshrc

volume control is in the amp section, while the rca outs are from the dac only.


----------



## zambz

jayeshrc said:


> volume control is in the amp section, while the rca outs are from the dac only.


 
  
 Thanks.  When you setup the device on your PC or Mac, are you able to control the volume of the speakers in the digital domain?  If so, I presume this affects the headphones too?
  
 I currently own an RME Fireface UC which has completely independent headphone and monitor outputs, which is REALLY handy   I guess it's harder to find this in headphone amps which assume your primary target is headphones, not speakers.


----------



## jayeshrc

yup, you can lower the volume on the PC/Mac for the speakers..


----------



## zambz

jayeshrc said:


> yup, you can lower the volume on the PC/Mac for the speakers..


 
  
 Kewl, does this volume affect the headphones or do they remain independent?
  
 Thanks so so much for your help!


----------



## sheldaze

zambz said:


> Kewl, does this volume affect the headphones or do they remain independent?
> 
> Thanks so so much for your help!


 
 The internal headphone AMP and RCA outputs do not have a separate source - both are sourced from the DAC. So if the DAC volume is lowered, such as from a Mac/PC volume control, the internal headphone AMP volume would also be lowered.
  
 ::
  
 More specifically, in the version of The Element you seem interested in, everything passes through the DAC. Then you can choose which way to pass the sound next. If you have power on, the source is sent through the headphone AMP. If you power off, the sound is sent through the RCA outputs. As someone already mentioned, this is why the volume knob has no impact - the volume knob is for the internal AMP. And when the power is off, the DAC output is sent as-is through the RCA outputs.
  
 There is another version of The Element, the original which I have. But it cannot pass outputs to the RCA. It instead sources sound from the RCA as inputs or from the DAC. Only in this version could the DAC volume be bypassed. However if you are seeking to output from RCA, this is not The Element you want.


----------



## lvince95

sheldaze said:


> The DAC is the ODAC rev B, but I do believe the amplifier is different.


 
 About this, how sure exactly are you that it is the ODAC Rev B? I'm also inclined to believe it's the ODAC since it's USB powered as well but..
  
 I have looked at the specs (listed on the JDS site) and compared the DAC specs for both The Element and ODAC Rev B and they seem to differ (but only slightly).


----------



## lvince95

Okay, disregard my post. It's not exactly the same and I missed it since it's apparently on the blog (which I didn't read of course).


----------



## PacoTaco

I'm currently trying to sell mine, as I want to try something completely different. I don't seem to be having much luck though.


----------



## lvince95

pacotaco said:


> I'm currently trying to sell mine, as I want to try something completely different. I don't seem to be having much luck though.


 

 I'm actually interested in it, PM'ed you.


----------



## TenMoonsNorth

I have a few questions:
  
 1. Does the Element get hot? I'm considering mounting it upside down under a desk and an amp like a Magni 2U will get too hot to do this.
  
 2. Can the Element be used as just an Amp with the RCA connectors acting as input from another DAC. From the spec sheet it says it can but do I have to select this before ordering? At the moment it says automatic DAC output in the drop down menu but I'm not quite sure what it means by that.


----------



## jayeshrc

1. not really, it gets slightly warm (not much that would cause a problem)

 2. yes, you need to choose rca in or out while ordering. the rca out has an "automatic" switching feature for when you use speakers and headphones with the element


----------



## Haris Javed

I will be glad to help anyone interested in buying this unit. My small impressions video from YouTube.


----------



## compddd

Any Element owners here who are on Window 10 and play PC games?


----------



## Haris Javed

compddd said:


> Any Element owners here who are on Window 10 and play PC games?


 

 I do - Win 10 64bit Professional. JDS Element, and Philips X2 - that is my dedicated gaming setup


----------



## compddd

Sent PM


----------



## jayeshrc

the updated element with both rca in and out is pretty great! it gets rid of the vents at the back and adds an extra pair of rca connectors. 

 Plus, i need more time to actually confirm this but it feels like this one sounds slightly better when it gets warm (is that why they got rid of the vents?)


----------



## canthearyou

jayeshrc said:


> the updated element with both rca in and out is pretty great! it gets rid of the vents at the back and adds an extra pair of rca connectors.
> 
> 
> Plus, i need more time to actually confirm this but it feels like this one sounds slightly better when it gets warm (is that why they got rid of the vents?) h34r:




Awesome! Glad to see the sleek design progressing.


----------



## jayeshrc

yeah, pretty nice changes! they've also i think raised the knob by 0.5-1mm or something, the light below seems to be seen better and what not. the surface finish is also a little more matte-ish than before, and the buttons at the back are more chamfered (the buttons arent a positive change imo, they move around a little too much and rattle if you shake the unit. i gave jds labs feedback about this, im sure they'll do something about it)


----------



## Chris Zhang

aha,I bought one yesterday，hope it would be posted to China soon!


----------



## jseaber

jayeshrc said:


> yeah, pretty nice changes! they've also i think raised the knob by 0.5-1mm or something, the light below seems to be seen better and what not. the surface finish is also a little more matte-ish than before, and the buttons at the back are more chamfered (the buttons arent a positive change imo, they move around a little too much and rattle if you shake the unit. i gave jds labs feedback about this, im sure they'll do something about it)


 
  
 And the feet?! Totally different material.


----------



## loki993

question out of curiosity because as we all know we are always looking for something else to spend our money on. 

Would the element benefit from a different standalone DAC..or am I just chasing nothing..and DACS are DACS.


----------



## SivaMira

Is the Element pair well with a passive bookshelf speaker?


----------



## alfa42

loki993 said:


> question out of curiosity because as we all know we are always looking for something else to spend our money on.
> 
> Would the element benefit from a different standalone DAC..or am I just chasing nothing..and DACS are DACS.


 
  
 The integrated DAC on the The Element is decent, it get's the job done very well.
  
 Of course, if you buy a $400 standalone DAC it will benefit from it. If we're talking about a more cheaper DAC (for example the Modi 2) I doubt that you'll notice any difference (I'm not saying that the Modi 2 is bad, I just think it is on par with The Element).
  
 In conclusion, it all depends on how much budget you have for all the audio equipment. For the price the combo of The Element is a good option.
  
 I hope that helps you...
  
 Regards.


----------



## Haris Javed

alfa42 said:


> The integrated DAC on the The Element is decent, it get's the job done very well.
> 
> Of course, if you buy a $400 standalone DAC it will benefit from it. If we're talking about a more cheaper DAC (for example the Modi 2) I doubt that you'll notice any difference (I'm not saying that the Modi 2 is bad, I just think it is on par with The Element).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Element DAC isint just decent. Its very good. I have a few DACS that are priced anywhere from 2x to 6x compared to Element, and it is very hard to tell a difference.If you have oscilloscope for ears maybe a very high end DAC would be beneficial. I own the following DACS or Amp + DAC combos (Element, IFI micro idsd, Oppo HA-1, Audio gd master 7, and it is very very very hard for me to tell the difference with any of my headphones or speakers.


----------



## Shogster

Do you think the difference between the Element Dac and Grace Design m9xx Dac is significant? I want to upgrade my Fiio e10k, and have narrowed it down to those two, but im not sure if i need to give the extra cash for the m9xx.


----------



## canthearyou

shogster said:


> Do you think the difference between the Element Dac and Grace Design m9xx Dac is significant? I want to upgrade my Fiio e10k, and have narrowed it down to those two, but im not sure if i need to give the extra cash for the m9xx.




I wouldn't buy the m9xx just for its DAC. It's a great amp/dac. Having owned both Element and m9xx at the same time I chose the m9xx. I preferred it's sound over the Element


----------



## canthearyou

Deleted


----------



## fuzzybaffy

While I upgraded to the m9xx from the The Element, do keep in mind that the m9xx costs a lot more.


----------



## Shogster

Yeah, i think i will go with the element. Im sure the SQ will be better than my Fiio, and with the dac line out,the build and design, amp power etc. its a bit more appealing to me.The m9xx looks to be better in some cases, but i think i will be happy with either.


----------



## SivaMira

Does the Element mute the speaker when plug in a headphone?


----------



## jseaber

sivamira said:


> Does the Element mute the speaker when plug in a headphone?


 
  
 Pressing the power button (off) mutes headphones and activates RCA DAC line-output. Pressing the power button again (on) activates the headphone amp and mutes the RCA line-outs. No need to unplug headphones.
  
 http://www.jdslabs.com/pdf/jds-labs-element-connectivity.pdf


----------



## SivaMira

jseaber said:


> Pressing the power button (off) mutes headphones and activates RCA DAC line-output. Pressing the power button again (on) activates the headphone amp and mutes the RCA line-outs. No need to unplug headphones.
> 
> http://www.jdslabs.com/pdf/jds-labs-element-connectivity.pdf


 
 Thanks you,
  
 I have another question, if I have USB Input and RCA-Input/External Audio both plug in at the same time, which source will take over, or do both source out put at the same time?


----------



## jseaber

sivamira said:


> Thanks you,
> 
> I have another question, if I have USB Input and RCA-Input/External Audio both plug in at the same time, which source will take over, or do both source out put at the same time?


 
  
 The RCA input signal overrides the USB signal when connected.
  
 Check out the PDF link above. This method means that Element retains its Auto Switching functionality. In other words, your auxiliary input source also automatically transitions from headphones to the RCA-outputs.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

packdemon said:


> I've been using the DAC output for my subwoofers while having my headphones plugged into the headphone output, and overall that configuration has been running great and I've had no issues whatsoever. You have my blessing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That makes me want to spring for the Element and an external Amp & Buttkicker so that I can also feel my bass and not disturb others in the house.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Yay! Just got my Element in!  Great Work JDS Labs!  I haven't had time to play with it (besides unboxing), but I will shortly!


----------



## eddyheadphone

How is it compared to mojo chord or m9xx


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Ok. I wonder if I'm hearing weird things. I need to take a deeper listen with more music. The sound from my MSI Gaming 6 motherboard, while more background hiss; seems to have more weight and oomph to the sound. Going through the Element makes it seem to lose information or just become sterile. Less lively. I've swapped my 6.5mm adapters, switched cables. I don't know. This thing doesn't sound nearly as good as my Oppo HA-2 did (which is what I returned to get this). I'm wondering if I made a mistake. Does this thing require "burn-in" to open up the sound?  HELP! Starting to get buyer's remorse.  FYI: I'm listening to this through my Oppo PM-3 headphones. My HF-400i will be here on Wednesday for me to try with this.


----------



## derbigpr

waytoocrazy said:


> Ok. I wonder if I'm hearing weird things. I need to take a deeper listen with more music. The sound from my MSI Gaming 6 motherboard, while more background hiss; seems to have more weight and oomph to the sound. Going through the Element makes it seem to lose information or just become sterile. Less lively. I've swapped my 6.5mm adapters, switched cables. I don't know. This thing doesn't sound nearly as good as my Oppo HA-2 did (which is what I returned to get this). I'm wondering if I made a mistake. Does this thing require "burn-in" to open up the sound?  HELP! Starting to get buyer's remorse.  FYI: I'm listening to this through my Oppo PM-3 headphones. My HF-400i will be here on Wednesday for me to try with this.


 
  
 That's what I always felt about the sound of the O2 amp.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

derbigpr said:


> That's what I always felt about the sound of the O2 amp.


 

 Great!  I kept trying to decide over this and the Schiit Modi2 Uber with Vali2. I decided I want 1 device instead of two.  This might be an oops!  I'm going to let it burn to the weekend and keep listening. I wonder what the return policy is.


----------



## riverlethe

waytoocrazy said:


> Ok. I wonder if I'm hearing weird things. I need to take a deeper listen with more music. The sound from my MSI Gaming 6 motherboard, while more background hiss; seems to have more weight and oomph to the sound. Going through the Element makes it seem to lose information or just become sterile. Less lively. I've swapped my 6.5mm adapters, switched cables. I don't know. This thing doesn't sound nearly as good as my Oppo HA-2 did (which is what I returned to get this). I'm wondering if I made a mistake. Does this thing require "burn-in" to open up the sound?  HELP! Starting to get buyer's remorse.  FYI: I'm listening to this through my Oppo PM-3 headphones. My HF-400i will be here on Wednesday for me to try with this.


 

 ​Are you sure you had them volume-matched?  Human perception of frequency response changes with volume level.  Also, distortion in the bass might make it seem subjectively louder.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

riverlethe said:


> ​Are you sure you had them volume-matched?  Human perception of frequency response changes with volume level.  Also, distortion in the bass might make it seem subjectively louder.


 

 I volume matched as best as I could. My motherboard has a separate audio section powered via a 4 pin molex to increase power, but it still doesn't go loud enough (and also has a lot of hiss). The Element was as close to the same volume as I could make it. It just did not sound as lively as the motherboard. It most definitely does not sound as good as that of the Oppo HA-2. The sound seemed to sound a little better when I increased volume, but it was still less exciting than what I was previously used to. I have allowed it to play through the night (in case burn-in is a thing). I've run it for roughly 10 hours. I'll burn it in again later when my HE-400i arrive. I just checked over the policy as well, since I had the volume button engraved, there is no return for me. I'll see what else needs to be done, but I do not wish to add another DAC to this; I'd end up selling first.


----------



## loki993

alfa42 said:


> The integrated DAC on the The Element is decent, it get's the job done very well.
> 
> Of course, if you buy a $400 standalone DAC it will benefit from it. If we're talking about a more cheaper DAC (for example the Modi 2) I doubt that you'll notice any difference (I'm not saying that the Modi 2 is bad, I just think it is on par with The Element).
> 
> ...




Yeah Im definitely not running out and spending 400 bucks on a DAC.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

loki993 said:


> Yeah Im definitely not running out and spending 400 bucks on a DAC.


 

 I concur. The design of the product is Fantastic though. This was my MAIN reason for purchase.


----------



## derbigpr

loki993 said:


> Yeah Im definitely not running out and spending 400 bucks on a DAC.


 
  
 Well, if you buy something like Asus Essence One mkII for example (for 400 bucks) you'll find that it sounds (and looks/feels) like it costs far, far more than the Element, which is to be expected since it was built by a company that has infinitely more resources and know-how. There are some huge bang for the buck DAC/amps out there made by serious audio brands that people on this forum pay very little attention to because they're not over-hyped and automatically recommended in pretty much any post on related to DAC/amps. O2 stuff is what M50's used to be a few years back. How many people on this forum know about the NAD D1050? Or Denon DA-300USB? Or Asus Essence STU? Or Teac UD-H01 or UD-301?  Those are all products in the 300-400 dollar range, and all superior to O2 dac+amp or Element in terms of sound and build quality.  In fact, I always said the sound of O2 products reminds me of laptop outputs minus the hiss and with more volume available. Just flat, thin, compressed....I guess when going from very bad sound to that makes you feel like it sounds clear and clean at first, but you quickly realize it's not exactly musical and fun to listen to.
  
 The issue is, the whole circlejerk around O2 has caused a lot of people to believe that THIS is how neutral gear SHOULD sound, that this is as good as any hi-fi gear can ever sound, and if anything more expensive sounds different, it's because it colors the sound and is less accurate than the O2. Some people really do believe that, usually without ever trying better (not more expensive) gear. Well, it's just not true, and that's just not a natural, realistic sound.


----------



## riverlethe

derbigpr said:


> Well, if you buy something like Asus Essence One mkII for example (for 400 bucks) you'll find that it sounds (and looks/feels) like it costs far, far more than the Element, which is to be expected since it was built by a company that has infinitely more resources and know-how. There are some huge bang for the buck DAC/amps out there made by serious audio brands that people on this forum pay very little attention to because they're not over-hyped and automatically recommended in pretty much any post on related to DAC/amps. O2 stuff is what M50's used to be a few years back. How many people on this forum know about the NAD D1050? Or Denon DA-300USB? Or Asus Essence STU? Or Teac UD-H01 or UD-301?  Those are all products in the 300-400 dollar range, and all superior to O2 dac+amp or Element in terms of sound and build quality.  In fact, I always said the sound of O2 products reminds me of laptop outputs minus the hiss and with more volume available. Just flat, thin, compressed....I guess when going from very bad sound to that makes you feel like it sounds clear and clean at first, but you quickly realize it's not exactly musical and fun to listen to.
> 
> The issue is, the whole circlejerk around O2 has caused a lot of people to believe that THIS is how neutral gear SHOULD sound, that this is as good as any hi-fi gear can ever sound, and if anything more expensive sounds different, it's because it colors the sound and is less accurate than the O2. Some people really do believe that, usually without ever trying better (not more expensive) gear. Well, it's just not true, and that's just not a natural, realistic sound.




Where are you finding an Asus Essence One mk2 for $400? The Essence III is outrageously overpriced. The Teac and Denon headphone amps are laughably underpowered - not even comparable to a <$100 Fiio. NAD doesn't even publish output power specs for the D1050. The Asus cards have a decent amount of power, if you don't have computer noise problems with your setup. 

As for the claims of subjective sound quality, I can only ask that you show a shred of evidence.


----------



## Haris Javed

waytoocrazy said:


> Ok. I wonder if I'm hearing weird things. I need to take a deeper listen with more music. The sound from my MSI Gaming 6 motherboard, while more background hiss; seems to have more weight and oomph to the sound. Going through the Element makes it seem to lose information or just become sterile. Less lively. I've swapped my 6.5mm adapters, switched cables. I don't know. This thing doesn't sound nearly as good as my Oppo HA-2 did (which is what I returned to get this). I'm wondering if I made a mistake. Does this thing require "burn-in" to open up the sound?  HELP! Starting to get buyer's remorse.  FYI: I'm listening to this through my Oppo PM-3 headphones. My HF-400i will be here on Wednesday for me to try with this.


 
 ^ this is correct about the Element. It is neutral to the point where all the audio is smoothed out. Its not just you, I have tried my unit volume matched with my other amps, and come to the same conclusion. BUT I have never found it under powered - lol, way far from it. I can plug in my DT990 250ohm, and the Bass this thing puts out is amazing!(and if the music calls for it) - its actually too much for me. Also remember those molex connectors can provide Maximum of 132W (11a @ 12v) but that does not mean that all of that power is being sent straight to the Headphone Jack of the sound card. Also in amplifiers the topology and design play a huge role in power delivery. There is a huge difference in a sound card consuming 100W and a Amp with a toroidal transformer consuming 100W from the wall. Just my .02$
  
 GL


----------



## WayTooCrazy

haris javed said:


> ^ this is correct about the Element. It is neutral to the point where all the audio is smoothed out. Its not just you, I have tried my unit volume matched with my other amps, and come to the same conclusion. BUT I have never found it under powered - lol, way far from it. I can plug in my DT990 250ohm, and the Bass this thing puts out is amazing!(and if the music calls for it) - its actually too much for me. Also remember those molex connectors can provide Maximum of 132W (11a @ 12v) but that does not mean that all of that power is being sent straight to the Headphone Jack of the sound card. Also in amplifiers the topology and design play a huge role in power delivery. There is a huge difference in a sound card consuming 100W and a Amp with a toroidal transformer consuming 100W from the wall. Just my .02$
> 
> GL


 

 The "under-powered" is most definitely the amp on my motherboard, not the Element. The "lack" of "fun" is all about the Element.


----------



## Haris Javed

waytoocrazy said:


> The "under-powered" is most definitely the amp on my motherboard, not the Element. The "lack" of "fun" is all about the Element.


 
 hehe - yes I agree, the neutrality of the element can be a buzz kill  - I felt like that at first when I moved from my creative fatality x-fi, but now I am used to the more neutral sound signature.


----------



## riverlethe

haris javed said:


> hehe - yes I agree, the neutrality of the element can be a buzz kill  - I felt like that at first when I moved from my creative fatality x-fi, but now I am used to the more neutral sound signature.


 
  
 Are you sure you didn't have some kind of DSP enabled?  Also, do you have any idea what the output impedance on the X-fi was?


----------



## Haris Javed

riverlethe said:


> Are you sure you didn't have some kind of DSP enabled?  Also, do you have any idea what the output impedance on the X-fi was?


 
 Hi - yes I did have the equalizer enabled on my sound card, and it mucks up the audio


----------



## Haris Javed

Here is my JDS labs comparison with another AMP / DAC


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I will have to say. On initial listening. I like the JDS Labs with my HE-400i on the Diana Krall track "Temptation" @ 24/96. On my Oppo PM-3, I'd rather listen to that track on my Galaxy Note 3. Weird, I know. I need to do more listening.   I did notice though, I have to increase the gain to get the volume I need.


----------



## SivaMira

My volume knob jiggle a little, is that normal?


----------



## Haris Javed

sivamira said:


> My volume knob jiggle a little, is that normal?




 Hi sir 
  
 I am not really sure  I will check mine, and report back
  
 thank you


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Mine does the exact thing as well, and I just purchased it a few days ago.


----------



## jseaber

sivamira said:


> My volume knob jiggle a little, is that normal?


 
  
 The knob is secure against the Alps potentiometer shaft, and the shaft itself is responsible for this effect. You'll find that all potentiometers wobble, so the larger the knob, the more visible the effect. Try wiggling a knob on a home receiver the same way.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Agreed, I don't see it as an issue (the knob wiggle, it isn't a lot anyway).  The "fit and finish" on this thing is really nice! I will say though, it does like to pair better with certain headphones and less with others.


----------



## Haris Javed

jseaber said:


> The knob is secure against the Alps potentiometer shaft, and the shaft itself is responsible for this effect. You'll find that all potentiometers wobble, so the larger the knob, the more visible the effect. Try wiggling a knob on a home receiver the same way.


 
  
 Hi - yes this seems normal  - happens with my unit as well, but the knob is solid! - built like a tank


----------



## SivaMira

Thanks for the answer. I may know a lot of things but I can not know everything and thats why I asked instead of assuming thing myself.
  
 The only thing I can complain about the Element is I wish there is a button to switch between USB-input and RCA-input, instead of me unplugging the RCA-input cable to use USB-input.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

sivamira said:


> The only thing I can complain about the Element is I wish there is a button to switch between USB-input and RCA-input, instead of me unplugging the RCA-input cable to use USB-input.


 
 #TRUTH


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Ok. With the fact that I have to constantly adjust the volume on my computer when going from the headphone out of the Element to my Audioengine A2+, or risk scaring myself and everyone in the house (I have my A2+ up to almost full level and the subwoofer attached as well) has become quite annoying.  I like the unit for what it is, but I've decided to put it up for sale for anyone who is interested. I'm going to put it up for $300 with 35-40 hours of break-in on it (I've had it for less than 2 weeks).  If anyone is interested, please PM me. This is the upgraded one with the RCA input and RCA output.


----------



## SivaMira

Does anyone know if I can buy a different 16VAC POWER ADAPTER that has a round and thicker cable to use with my Element?
 The one that came with the Element is too thin for me.


----------



## gmKevinHNgu

- deleted


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Sold mine. Everyone have fun with theirs.


----------



## Chris Zhang

one little question，i got my element for almost one month，quite like its sound,but  there is always some unexpected llittle noise in the left side of my headphone，and i'm quite sure the noise not from the usb input,when i pull out the usb cable,there still the noise,and i try another headphone,the noise still exist，that really made a trouble when i'm listening.
 so,could anyone tell me how to solve it ?


----------



## Haris Javed

chris zhang said:


> one little question，i got my element for almost one month，quite like its sound,but  there is always some unexpected llittle noise in the left side of my headphone，and i'm quite sure the noise not from the usb input,when i pull out the usb cable,there still the noise,and i try another headphone,the noise still exist，that really made a trouble when i'm listening.
> so,could anyone tell me how to solve it ?


 
 Yes - I had the same issue. It seems to happen when the element is placed closed to other electrical devices (with transformers) in my case I resolved it by playing music through the element, and moving the unit around until the hiss was gone. It was a real big issue with low impedance head phones.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

^^ I too had this, the unit was close to my computer and cellphone and underneath my monitor. I moved it away from all of them and the hum was gone.


----------



## aural bliss

Would this be the best option for an AMP+DAC solution (either separate boxes or one box) for around $500 or less ??


----------



## riverlethe

aural bliss said:


> Would this be the best option for an AMP+DAC solution (either separate boxes or one box) for around $500 or less ??




Best in what way? And why do you assume more expensive is necessarily better?


----------



## aural bliss

riverlethe said:


> Best in what way? And why do you assume more expensive is necessarily better?


 
  
 In what way, I'm not sure I guess just overall sound.  I currently have an audinst mx1 and I'm looking to upgrade.


----------



## jseaber

haris javed said:


> Yes - I had the same issue. It seems to happen when the element is placed closed to other electrical devices (with transformers) in my case I resolved it by playing music through the element, and moving the unit around until the hiss was gone. It was a real big issue with low impedance head phones.


 
  
 Regardless of amplifier model, interference is generally avoided by placing cell phones and wireless equipment at least 3ft away from audio cables. In extreme cases, swapping opamps can help. Texas Instruments has recently started publishing EMIRR graphs for some of their opamps to give better insight:
 www.ti.com/lit/an/sboa128a/sboa128a.pdf


----------



## Haris Javed

aural bliss said:


> In what way, I'm not sure I guess just overall sound.  I currently have an audinst mx1 and I'm looking to upgrade.


 
  


aural bliss said:


> In what way, I'm not sure I guess just overall sound.  I currently have an audinst mx1 and I'm looking to upgrade.


 
  
  


aural bliss said:


> Would this be the best option for an AMP+DAC solution (either separate boxes or one box) for around $500 or less ??


 
  
 I think for the Price, it is a great solution. it is small - stylish - powerful - build quality is great - 2 year warranty, and support right here in the US (if you live here). I drive a variety of head phones with mine, and it sounds relatively good with all of them


----------



## Hisoundfi

JDS Labs Element, Enjoy!
  

 http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-the-element/reviews/15557


----------



## Chris Zhang

dose the element support ASIO?


----------



## jseaber

chris zhang said:


> dose the element support ASIO?


 
  
 Yes, ASIO drivers are available for Element and ODAC as of today! We've been pushing SaviAudio for drivers for some time.
  
 Yoyodyne Consulting sent confirmation that ODAC tested correctly this morning with the new ASIO drivers. I'm out of the office until next week and will confirm Element as soon as possible.


----------



## Chris Zhang

wow,that's really awesome!


----------



## chococya96

Is it possible to use only the "amp" part of the Element for my Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC?
  
 I'd like to use the following setups *simultaneously* without needing the disconnect neither of them:
 1) PS4 > optical to Modi > RCA to Element > 3.5mm to headphone
 2) Desktop > USB to Element > 3.5mm to headphone
  
 What I mean by simultaneous as in switching between PS4 and Desktop freely without disconnecting the cables physically.


----------



## Xovaan

My girlfriend's been rocking a first run Element for a few months now and still loves it. Just extending my thanks for creating a great product!


----------



## SivaMira

chococya96 said:


> Is it possible to use only the "amp" part of the Element for my Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC?
> 
> I'd like to use the following setups *simultaneously* without needing the disconnect neither of them:
> 1) PS4 > optical to Modi > RCA to Element > 3.5mm to headphone
> ...


 
 The new updated Element has RCA input optional which is the one that let you bypass the DAC and only the AMP will be use with Headphone.
  
 For the next question, unfortunately you can not switch between 1 and 2 without disconnecting the cable because there is no space to put another button for this. After all the original Element was design to have only one input which is USB input. How does it work? The RCA input will priority over USB input. So if you want to use USB input you just have to unplug the RCA input and if you want to use the RCA input then you just plug the RCA input and it will overwrite the USB input.


----------



## chococya96

sivamira said:


> The new updated Element has RCA input optional which is the one that let you bypass the DAC and only the AMP will be use with Headphone.
> 
> For the next question, unfortunately you can not switch between 1 and 2 without disconnecting the cable because there is no space to put another button for this. After all the original Element was design to have only one input which is USB input. How does it work? The RCA input will priority over USB input. So if you want to use USB input you just have to unplug the RCA input and if you want to use the RCA input then you just plug the RCA input and it will overwrite the USB input.


 
  
 Hmm, so I have no choice but to disconnect the RCA cable every time if I want to use desktop... And vice versa for PS4.
  
 Though It seems like I could use my Modi 2 Uber to bypass the Element's DAC. So it looks something like:
 - PS4: PS4 > Optical to Modi > *Modi RCA input to Element RCA input* > 6.35mm to headphone
 - Desktop: Desktop > USB to Modi > *Modi RCA input to Element RCA input* > 6.35mm to headphone
 This way, I could freely switch between two devices via Modi?
  
 This is troubling. Now I'm not sure if I should go for Element or Schiit Magni 2 amp.
 The former is my original intention as I need a DAC + AMP combo for my desktop (also due to my personal preference). If the above setup actually works then I would absolutely go for Element.
 However if such setup does not work for whatever reason, I'd probably just buy the Magni 2 amp and hook it up with my Modi 2 Uber.


----------



## SivaMira

chococya96 said:


> Hmm, so I have no choice but to disconnect the RCA cable every time if I want to use desktop... And vice versa for PS4.
> 
> Though It seems like I could use my Modi 2 Uber to bypass the Element's DAC. So it looks something like:
> - PS4: PS4 > Optical to Modi > *Modi RCA input to Element RCA input* > 6.35mm to headphone
> ...


 
 You got that right if you just want to use Element as an AMP only. Only the USB input on the Element use the DAC. The RCA input will bypass the DAC of the Element which mean you can use outside DAC as the source. In your case you will have Modi 2 Uber as DAC and Element as AMP, and you can control the input on your Modi 2 Uber. Well but you will have 2 devices on your table if that what you want.


----------



## chococya96

sivamira said:


> You got that right if you just want to use Element as an AMP only. Only the USB input on the Element use the DAC. The RCA input will bypass the DAC of the Element which mean you can use outside DAC as the source. In your case you will have Modi 2 Uber as DAC and Element as AMP, and you can control the input on your Modi 2 Uber. Well but you will have 2 devices on your table if that what you want.


 
  
 I don't mind having two devices. Not to mention I have to use two devices setup regardless - be it Schiit combo, Element + Schiit or whatever.
  
 With that being said, I just realized how if I'm going to use Element + Modi combo I won't be using the "DAC" part on the Element... Which defeats the whole purpose of buying DAC + Amp all-in-one device in the first place.
  
 If this was the case then I should probably get a dedicated full tube amp or Magni 2 right? Or is the money worth it for "amp" part of the Element only? Though I feel that $350 is a bit too steep for a product which the main primary function is to use both DAC and amp, and not just the amp part only.
  
 Maybe I should've created a new thread for my current dilemma.


----------



## SivaMira

Maybe you should find a dedicated AMP since you already have a DAC which is something you must use to set up 2 devices.


----------



## JoeDoe

If any element owners are looking to sell or trade theirs for non amp gear, let me know! Very interested to try this guy with my ZMF Omni!


----------



## Kenny Powers

Is it worth upgrading a 02+ODAC for one of these? I have the option of returning my 02+ODAC but only for store credit or an exchange but im wondering if its worth it or if I should just keep my 02?


----------



## stormit

chris zhang said:


> one little question，i got my element for almost one month，quite like its sound,but  there is always some unexpected llittle noise in the left side of my headphone，and i'm quite sure the noise not from the usb input,when i pull out the usb cable,there still the noise,and i try another headphone,the noise still exist，that really made a trouble when i'm listening.
> so,could anyone tell me how to solve it ?


 
  


haris javed said:


> Yes - I had the same issue. It seems to happen when the element is placed closed to other electrical devices (with transformers) in my case I resolved it by playing music through the element, and moving the unit around until the hiss was gone. It was a real big issue with low impedance head phones.


 
  
 I also have the exact same issue with my element (purchased late 2015). I'd get random bursts of static/noise from the left ear only from time to time, and it was extremely annoying. I had the element on my desk to the left of my monitor and less than 2 feet away I also had a wifi usb dongle on the left corner of my desk.
  
 After moving the element to the right side of my monitor it seems to have completely eliminated the random bursts of noise. Is this a common issue with other external amp/dac units? I don't have much experience with other external amp/dac and I guess I didn't expect to run into an issue that doesn't happen when my headphones are plugged directly into the IO panel at the back of my computer. If anything I was under the impression that I was more likely to hear random noise when using onboard audio.


----------



## jseaber

Please see: https://www.jdslabs.com/troubleshooting

Yes, this happens with certain high bandwidth designs. EMIRR is a new term dubbed by Texas Instruments to describe the behavior. Unfortunately, the measurement is rarely published, even across TI's line. 

The best solution is to distance amplifiers from noise sources. If you're unable to position Element away from RF noise sources, we can install an alternative amplification stage.


----------



## pinoyman

i know this may sound weird but...
 do you think guys the ELEMENT can withstand against the sound quality of the mojo if compared?


----------



## Girlfrombrasil

Thinking about purchasing the Element.Anyone else have experience pairing it with Planar Magnetic headphones-specifically the ZMF Omni's?Any thoughts would be appreciated.I'm not looking for an endgame amp but something that will work well with the ZMF line of headphones.Tx!


----------



## Nonpoint

I run the element with alpha primes and use it at low gain.  Plenty of power for a planar in my experience.


----------



## Girlfrombrasil

Great!Tx!!


----------



## whatisit

chococya96 said:


> I don't mind having two devices. Not to mention I have to use two devices setup regardless - be it Schiit combo, Element + Schiit or whatever.
> 
> With that being said, I just realized how if I'm going to use Element + Modi combo I won't be using the "DAC" part on the Element... Which defeats the whole purpose of buying DAC + Amp all-in-one device in the first place.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If $350 is too steep and you'd definitely go for it at $299, they have a B-stock summer sale going on now.  I got mine as B-stock a couple weeks ago and honestly have no idea what it was even considered B-stock.  It looks brand new and I don't notice any sound issues.  I am really happy with the purchase still.


----------



## waveSounds

Has anyone heard both the Element and the Explorer²?


----------



## DivineCurrent

Does the Element use the ODAC as the DAC, or is it something different? I'm reading the specs, and they seem to differ but in favor of the dac from the Element, except for the frequency response variation. It is +-0.15 db on the Element's dac, but only +-0.04 db on the ODAC rev B. 
  
 edit: also, does the Element have an ASIO driver like the new ODAC? I see the driver download available on the ODAC page, but not the Element page.


----------



## Pings




----------



## amagad

would the element power hd800 (with room to spare) ?


----------



## pila405

Yup, it will drive the HD800 without problems.


----------



## equalme

Just got my B-stock Element. Quick question, the lighting around/under the gain dial, is it supposed to be even all around? On mine, it seems like the gain dial isn't fully centered thus the lighting on the front half is fairly dim.


----------



## jjsoviet

I'm trying to downsize my setup, and I am contemplating trading in my Asgard 2 + Bifrost (non-Uber) for an Element. Will there be a noticeable change in SQ? I could only read comparisons with the smaller Schiit stack (Vali/Magni + Modi) but nothing much on the larger siblings.


----------



## pila405

According to the data both companies supply, seems like there should be an improvement. (lower THD, better dynamic range etc')


----------



## ksathug

so is it an upgrade if i go from a asus stx sound card as a dac and a Valhalla 2 as a amp to the elment ?? or just get the Bifrost to replace my dac?


----------



## 36aMAN

Hey guys,
  
 i have MODI 2 + MAGNI 2 " none Uber " and HD700 headphone, and i want to upgrade my amp/dac to the element .
  
 is it good upgrade or not worth the mony ?
  
 i do play games and watch movies and a little of music


----------



## eddprzz

i wonder if this is better then the schitt combo or the d1 dac since i own both of these i mean i dont expect much of a difference in the dac department in this price range but amp wise are they hugely different?


----------



## mmq2404

How is The Element's amplifier compared to Magni 2 Uber in terms of sound signature & power (drive high impedance headphones)?


----------



## 36aMAN

guys look at " Chord Electronics Mojo "


----------



## dstea

How's this compared to the new Jotunheim?


----------



## silvrr

36aman said:


> guys look at " Chord Electronics Mojo "


 
  
 Hey I had a chance to do just that and compare it to The Element.   My  review is below.  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-the-element/reviews/16829
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler! Results Within



For an easy to drive headphone like the Ether C save your self $230 bucks if you are going to listen primary at your desk or only need a transportable setup not a portable setup.  The lack of coax and optical may be a no go for some too.  However, with both over USB I could not hear the difference between them.


----------



## Angular Mo

I am very pleasantly surprised to read how well the Element compares to a MoJo.

And I thought the Element was merely a reskinned ODAC which I found to become boring after a short while.

I want to like the Element so much because I like the form factor.


----------



## equalme

Just a head up, I have one for sale: http://www.head-fi.org/t/820136/jds-element-amp-dac


----------



## strollinrain

Ive just got an element, and it looks really great!

but when I connect it to my cdplayer by rca, there is only little sound even with high 

gain mode, whats the problem?

(forgive my poor english~


----------



## jseaber

strollinrain said:


> Ive just got an element, and it looks really great!
> 
> but when I connect it to my cdplayer by rca, there is only little sound even with high
> 
> ...


 
  
 Make sure your CD player is connected to the RCA Inputs, not Outputs. Feel free to PM if you need more help.

  
 Edit: Answered via PM - The CD player in question has a weak line-level output of 0.2VRMS, thus, it's 10x quieter than a typical DAC.


----------



## rackinov

I've owned this amp/DAC for almost a year now and the quality is superb. I highly recommend it to anyone interested. Not only does it look slick, it also creates incredible clarity. 
 I've just begun to use it as a pre amp/ DAC and am wondering if I am doing it correctly. As I don't have the newer edition for speakers I am instead running my input through the element with low amplification and then, from a normal jack to jack cable, out of the element into another amplifier for the speakers.
 Am I bottle necking somewhere or should the DAC be working to its full potential in this system?
  
 Thanks all,
 Donovan


----------



## AnonymousGuy

Just a drive by I made this for my Element:
  

  
  
  
 1/4" to 3.5mm TRRS cable.  Mogami W2697 cable, Neutrik NP3X-B 1/4 jack, Kobiconn 161-6435-EX 3.5mm 4 pole TRRS jack.
  
 I listen on UE18 IEM's with the mic cable.  Clarity is incredible with the Element.
  
 Kinda wish it was an option to have a 3.5mm jack since it would have saved on making a custom cable to adapt it.


----------



## oopeteroo

So how was the synergy with element + hd650/600?


----------



## Oleo

Recently got the Element and installed the Savi Audio Bravo X ASIO drivers. Anyone know what the Gang button on the interface does?


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Got my JDS Labs Element today .






Takes up a little more room than my O2 & ODAC.



Looks pretty good with it next to the volume control for my speakers.



Also allows me to get rid of all these damn adapters, the 90° were for making it cleaner, the 2 splitters were for connecting the O2 to the ODAC with my speakers and the cable was obviously for connecting the O2 to the ODAC.
Yeah it was a spastic setup but it worked... more or less.



I will say this thing is louder than the O2, I had the O2 at 10 o'clock and I could listen to music and still hear what was going on around me (only just), the Element at 10 o'clock I cant even hear my keyboard :eek:.

Now to decide if I want new headphones .


----------



## compddd

oleo said:


> Recently got the Element and installed the Savi Audio Bravo X ASIO drivers. Anyone know what the Gang button on the interface does?


 
 Do you have a link for the driver download?


----------



## Aleo

Currently a B-Stock Element is running for 279 - 299 from JDS's site as part of their black friday sale, is it a really good piece of equipment for 300 dollars? I'll be using it with AKG K7XX, HE-400i, and incoming HD 6XX. It should be able to drive these fine, right?


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

So my Element is running fine however I do have 1 problem, it seems to be causing Plex Home Theatre to start slow, freeze and crash... anyone else had this?


----------



## Oleo

compddd said:


> Do you have a link for the driver download?


 
  
Right on the Element main page.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Well my JDS Labs Element is awesome but I've found a small problem,

Windows 10 & Plex, OpenPHT or normal Plex Home Theatre, run 2 or more screens (I have 3) the Element seems to cause Plex to freeze anywhere from 10 - 60 seconds when you alt-tab back into it...

I first thought it was just my main PC being spazzy because I also have Voicemeeter with a Virtual Cable setup to split my audio for game recording (which can cause conflicts) but I tested it with my tablet (running Win10 Pro) and it does the same thing with a second screen :mad: a single screen is fine even alt-tabbing heaps Plex doesn't freeze.

I've spent the last 3 days testing this with a lot of uninstalls, reinstalls and god knows how many restarts, I let Windows automatically install the drivers for the Element, I reinstalled Plex 4 times both OpenPHT and normal, I've uninstalled and reinstalled Voicemeeter and the Virtual Cable, I even went as far as hunting through the registry to delete every entry of my last setup but it's still causing a problem somewhere with Plex.

Now before people rip my head off by saying it's Plex and not the Element, I had the JDS Labs O2 & ODAC on this exact same setup for the last 3 years without a problem but since switching to the Element I've had this happening, I do have a HDMI cable to one of my monitors but I have no drivers installed for it, the only audio devices are Voicemeeter a Virtual Cable and the Element. I'm over on the Plex forums trying to work this out to because obviously this shouldn't be happening.

Has anyone else had this problem or am I just the really super special lucky one ?

Nevermind.


----------



## LolCakeLazors

Just got my Element. Was really surprised when I got a free upgrade to the Audio Line In + Out coupled with $20 off on Black Friday. Thanks for the customer service JDS!


----------



## rackinov

I've got to say the customer support from jds labs is the best I've come across, John Seaber, wherever you are, I want to thank you personally. Always reply within 5 minutes of me sending an email, I don't know how you do it!


----------



## leighspped

Just order an element mainly for the hd700's, but it seems like people are having problems with running desktop speakers? Any workaround or model suggests for something small? The Audioengine a2+ didn't work for volume reason I saw in the thread


----------



## oopeteroo

How will this compare bottle head cracking for hd650 ?


----------



## ogarrio

Hi
 Anyone could tell me your opinion buying it with the XDUOO XD-05?
 Thanks!


----------



## mauricejohnson

oopeteroo said:


> How will this compare bottle head cracking for hd650 ?


 
  
 I was actually curious of the same thing. Deciding on either a Mangi, or spending some extra cash and going either JDS or Bottlehead


----------



## Standardsixty3

In my opinion, this is one of the best looking desktop combos out there. Anyone have experience on how this sounds through IEM's?


----------



## HansPeter

anonymousguy said:


> Just a drive by I made this for my Element:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I got one made to avoid the Adapter Stuff.


----------



## Vekk

standardsixty3 said:


> In my opinion, this is one of the best looking desktop combos out there. Anyone have experience on how this sounds through IEM's?


 
 I've used Element with Er4sr , Noble Savanna or earbud like sennheiser mx475 or VE-monk espresso. 
 It's all working fine with low-gain mode. My savanna was at around 10-11 o'clock at maximum even when listening to classical tunes with quiet ambient background.


----------



## wigglepuff

whats the actual sound tonality of the element? compared to the fiio e10k and A5 amp how does it differ?


----------



## abellaw

I have had my JDS Element for a couple weeks. I really like the detail and musicality of the amp. I just feel like the vocals are just distant. I was wondering if i am hearing things or if other people feel the same?


----------



## strangecargo

These just arrived today:
  

  
 Picked up the separates because I was curious and I also don't have a standalone sample of any AKM implementations (only one I have is built into some active speakers). I haven't spent a ton of time listening because I've been busy populating an HP-1 PCB, but I put it to work immediately, cooking a new pair of TH-X00s. I did notice out of the box that both the DAC and amp are very very quiet. The noise floor on the EL DAC is considerably lower than my PS Audio NuWave DSD, just barely perceptible with the amp turned all the way up in high gain mode.


----------



## DivineCurrent

strangecargo said:


> These just arrived today:
> 
> 
> 
> Picked up the separates because I was curious and I also don't have a standalone sample of any AKM implementations (only one I have is built into some active speakers). I haven't spent a ton of time listening because I've been busy populating an HP-1 PCB, but I put it to work immediately, cooking a new pair of TH-X00s. I did notice out of the box that both the DAC and amp are very very quiet. The noise floor on the EL DAC is considerably lower than my PS Audio NuWave DSD, just barely perceptible with the amp turned all the way up in high gain mode.


 
 Awesome! Please give more impressions on these, I am considering either EL combo or just the Element. How is the build quality? I tried out an early beta EL DAC a few months ago, was not impressed at all because it was just a cheap box of plastic basically. I'm sure they improved it for the official product though.


----------



## strangecargo

achelgeson said:


> Awesome! Please give more impressions on these, I am considering either EL combo or just the Element. How is the build quality? I tried out an early beta EL DAC a few months ago, was not impressed at all because it was just a cheap box of plastic basically. I'm sure they improved it for the official product though.


 
 I'm going to wait for a 4-pin XLR->1/4" TRS adapter to arrive before I say anything about the sonics so I can listen critically with my Utopias using the cable that I prefer. One thing I noticed (but was expecting) is that the sound cleans up quite a bit if you feed the DAC audio that's been upsampled using a higher-quality algorithm. I use the DSP upsampler built into Roon, but I hear HQPlayer is better at it, though I haven't played with it. Seems to be a pretty common thing with modern sigma delta DAC ICs. The ASIO drivers are a little weird about sample rate changes. Changing rate causes the DAC to drop off the USB bus for a split second, causing Roon to lose track of the device long enough to interrupt playback. I switched to using the WASAPI drivers in exclusive mode, which don't seem to have that issue.
  
 The build quality is pretty good. I'm actually having a hard time telling if the outer casing is metal or plastic (I'm leaning towards plastic, just because it's relatively light). The case is clean and refined, with no trace of machining or mold marks. The printed branding is crisp. I wasn't expecting the light on the front of the EL DAC to be a touch-sensitive input selector. If I were being super critical, I would note that the light on the DAC leaks through the seam between the bottom plate and the rest of the housing slightly (you can see this in the pic I posted) and the volume knob of the amp is slightly wonky, but this is only noticeable when you're quickly rotating the knob, which you wouldn't do in normal use. The 1/4" TRS plug was surprisingly cheap feeling on the first insertion, but I've since stopped noticing. I think the spring contacts were kind of stiff out of the box, so it was just harder than expected to insert the plug. It's quite satisfying to adjust the volume and since the knob is so big, you really get awesome fine control.


----------



## jseaber

strangecargo said:


> The build quality is pretty good. I'm actually having a hard time telling if the outer casing is metal or plastic (I'm leaning towards plastic, just because it's relatively light).


 
  
 Nice pics! All Element enclosures are machined in-house from Al 6061, then finished and anodized locally in St. Louis.
  
 This machine produces every Element, EL DAC, and EL Amp:


----------



## strangecargo

jseaber said:


> Nice pics! All Element enclosures are machined in-house from Al 6061, then finished and anodized locally in St. Louis.
> 
> This machine produces every Element, EL DAC, and EL Amp:


 
 Ah, thanks for clarifying. Explains why the stack seems better at conducting heat than I would expect if the cases were made of plastic
  
 I didn't notice the JDS blog post about the DIP switch option for the DAC until after my order had shipped (and I don't remember an option for it at checkout). Are those pads free to populate if I order the DIP switch myself, next time I make an order from Mouser? Is there any documentation as to which switch settings correspond to which filter settings? I'm actually quite curious as to how those options would change the way the DAC sounds.


----------



## jseaber

strangecargo said:


> Ah, thanks for clarifying. Explains why the stack seems better at conducting heat than I would expect if the cases were made of plastic
> 
> I didn't notice the JDS blog post about the DIP switch option for the DAC until after my order had shipped (and I don't remember an option for it at checkout). Are those pads free to populate if I order the DIP switch myself, next time I make an order from Mouser? Is there any documentation as to which switch settings correspond to which filter settings? I'm actually quite curious as to how those options would change the way the DAC sounds.


 
  
 Yes, the pads are free on EL DAC to use Omron A6SN-3104. You'll find the following silkscreen legend on the PCB:
  
 S1
 1 -> SLOW (off = Low)
 2 -> SD (off = High)
 3 -> SSLOW (off = Low)


----------



## strangecargo

@jseaber, I'm having some issues with the USB drivers for the EL DAC. Using the WASAPI drivers in both event-driven and non event-driven mode, I get occasional popping/clicking sounds that sound similar to dust on a turntable. With the ASIO drivers, I don't get the popping sounds (scratch that, just got the popping sound using ASIO), but something happens every time I I switch sample rates that causes Roon to report that is has "lost control of the device", which interrupts playback. If I manually restart playback, it works fine until the the sample rate changes again. Since I have non-44.1kHz content mixed into my library, it means I can't use ASIO reliably to listen to music. Also, the ASIO device is listed as "BRAVO-HD", which makes it a little confusing to find the EL DAC when presented with a list of devices.


----------



## jseaber

@strangecargo - Any cell phones nearby? Random noise is more likely wireless interference than a driver issue. Please see www.jdslabs.com/troubleshooting for tips, or PM if you need more help!


----------



## strangecargo

jseaber said:


> @strangecargo - Any cell phones nearby? Random noise is more likely wireless interference than a driver issue. Please see www.jdslabs.com/troubleshooting for tips, or PM if you need more help!


 
 I moved my phone to the other side of the apartment and the popping sound didn't go away. Initially, I thought it was a driver issue because I thought it was only happening with the WASAPI driver, but then I heard it via ASIO. To get more information, I moved the EL stack around my apartment a bit and this is what I discovered:
  
 Windows 10 PC #1 via USB: popping noise
 Windows 10 PC #2 (in a different room) via USB: popping noise
 Raspberry Pi 3 running DietPi via USB and toslink: no noise
 Macbook Pro via USB: popping noise
 Macbook Pro via toslink: no noise
  
 So... all instances of the popping noise happen via USB connections, but not all USB connections cause the popping noise... Any ideas?


----------



## dallasmarlow

jseaber said:


> @strangecargo - Any cell phones nearby? Random noise is more likely wireless interference than a driver issue. Please see www.jdslabs.com/troubleshooting for tips, or PM if you need more help!




The element seems very sensitive to interference, I can't find a spot on my desk where it's not effected. This is my only complaint so far although sometimes I feel like it sounds a little bright. That might be in my head though, I don't feel that way listening to other dacs with the same chip.


----------



## jseaber

@strangecargo - Sorry, no idea. I'm unable to replicate, and have not heard of this before. Since TOSLINK and RPI via USB is okay, it's especially confusing. Please PM your order # if there's more I can do to help.



@dallasmarlow - Element is definitely neutral; you're likely describing a brightness of your headphones. Yes, any amplifier with LME49720s will behave similarly. Over the past two years, about 1% of Element owners have reported similar difficulty. There's an easy fix. PM or email and we can swap the LME49720s for an alternative TI or NJR part to greatly reduce RFI susceptibility. Element has been updated three times since its 2015 launch (v1.00, v1.51, v1.53) and I decided to stick with LME49720 for pre-amplification in all versions, as it performs so well for 99% of customers. Again, please reach out if you need help!


----------



## Medaud (May 2, 2017)

I will sometimes, maybe once or twice a day, get intermittent noise with my Element. It consists of two short ticks, followed by maybe 5-10 second pause and then again two short ticks and a pause etc. This will go on for a few minutes and then disappear again. I've tried moving my mobile all the way to the other side of the room without any change. I'm thinking it's RF noise but am unsure how to determine the source. Anyone got any tips? 

*UPDATE* For anyone having similar problems, here's an update:


I think the "ticks" I heard was in fact the PC losing connection to the Element for a short amount of time and then quickly reestablishing connection. The reason I think this is because I tried disabling the USB port in device manager, and heard the exact same "two short ticks" when I did. Another problem I faced was that the Element was sometimes suddenly not recognized in Windows. I had to reconnect it to another USB port for it to work again. Also, although I'm not entirely sure this is related, I was once listening to music in Foobar, and when I started up a youtube video simultaneously the Element immediately stopped working and showed up as not recognized.

JDS Labs has a troubleshooting page with solutions for this kind of problem: https://www.jdslabs.com/troubleshooting/

I had bought a 3m AmazonBasics USB cable in order to place the Element further away from my PC than the included 1m monoprice USB cable would allow. I tried connecting the Element using the ORIGINAL included monoprice cable and did not hear any noise or ticks whatsoever.

I then bought another Lindy Cromo 3m USB cable and also heard the same noise with this cable. Thus it seems the problem is the length of the cables. JDS Labs recommends using a 3 foot or shorter cable.

For good measure, I have now tried to set 'USB selective suspend setting' to Disabled in the power settings. This did not make any difference.

I then tried using a 1,8m AmazonBasics USB cable, I've been using this for a week now and haven't heard any noise.
Thus, my final conclusion is that the problem was that the USB cable was too long. In order to prevent loss of connection to the DAC and resulting noise, you have to use a 1,8m (6 foot) or shorter USB cable if connecting directly to your PC.


----------



## strangecargo

dallasmarlow said:


> The element seems very sensitive to interference, I can't find a spot on my desk where it's not effected. This is my only complaint so far although sometimes I feel like it sounds a little bright. That might be in my head though, I don't feel that way listening to other dacs with the same chip.


 
 I'm still working through the popping issue on my EL DAC with JDS, but in the process of debugging, I did notice a certain harshness or hardness to percussive transients that could be interpreted as brightness. I managed to make it go away by attaching an iFi iPurifier to the DAC. Even though the DAC is not powered by USB, it still seems to be sensitive to noise coming in through the USB port.


----------



## Makiah S (May 4, 2017)

Grab your self the dpclat software, you could have latency errors due to bad drivers. I had a problem with all my dac's popping, and upon running that. I found that there was in fact some fault drivers on my PC causing the problem

Here's my review of The Element, as I'm still unsure how to add reviews back onto head fi.

My blog has all of the pictures uploaded to it as well, http://hifilowlight.blogspot.com/2017/05/jds-labs-element.html

From the humble cMoy Bass Boost, to the polished Element. JDS Labs has really grown over the years! When I got my Beyerdynamic DT 880 in the summer of 2013 my humble little Fiio E6 was not enough, digging through the threads I came across the cMoy Amp. Built into an Altoid Can and sold for right around $60, I immediately snatched it up just because of how cool it looked. Well fortunately for me, I grabbed the JDS Labs cMoy with Bass Boost, it was my first real hi quality portable amp. So I have some blood with the guys at JDS Labs, as I spent a lot of time emailing them after getting that amp, and every time they were happy to answer my questions, and even offered me a sweet upgrade that fit my needs. Fast forward to today, and I'm happy to say that same level of quality and visual cool factor are present in their flagship amp/dac The Element.

The Element feels solid in the hands, the power and gain buttons have a nice click to them. The USB input doesn't wiggle either, it sits nicely. Best of all, the volume knob is HUGE and very smooth. I had no issue's making fine adjustments to my volume as the knob has a nice heft to it. My only gripe is the 6.5mm headphone jack, with some of my smaller 6.5mm plugs there's a little wiggle at first. My Audio Technica W1000X 6.5mm is my heaviest and most luxurious. Gold plated and seated in American Cherry, it was the only 6.5mm jack to have a very solid and sturdy feel when plugging in and out of The Element.


Spoiler: Specs



_AMPLIFIER PERFORMANCE_



·         Frequency Response 20Hz-20kHz+/- 0.1dB

·         THD+N 1kHz, 150 Ω0.0009%

·         IMD CCIF 19/20kHz 150 Ω0.0004%

·         IMD SMPTE 150 Ω0.0005%

·         Noise, A-Weighted-108 dBu

·         Crosstalk @ 150 Ω-67 dB

·         Output Impedance0.1 Ω

·         Channel Balance+/- 0.56 dB

·         Max Continuous Output, 600Ω140 mW (9.4VRMS)

·         Max Continuous Output, 150Ω505 mW

·         Max Continuous Output, 32Ω1.1 W

·         Peak Output Power, 32Ω1.5W

_DAC PERFORMANCE_

·         Frequency Response 20Hz-20kHz+/- 0.15dB

·         THD+N 100 Hz -0.15 dBFS0.0023%

·         THD+N 20 Hz -0.15 dBFS0.0016%

·         THD+N 10 kHz -0.15 dBFS0.0019%

·         IMD CCIF 19/20 kHz -6.03 dBFS0.0011%

·         IMD SMPTE -6.03 dBFS0.0012%

·         Noise A-Weighted dBu 24/96-102 dBu

·         Dynamic Range (A-Weighted)>112 dB

·         Linearity Error -90 dBFS 24/96-0.02 dB

·         Crosstalk -10 dBFS 100K RCA-100 dB

·         USB Jitter Components 11025Hz-113 dB

·         PCB Stackup4 Layers

·         Maximum DAC Line-Output, 100K2.10 VRMS



The Element has a basic set of input and output features, nothing special. I'm not a huge fan of having the gain button on the back out of sight right next to the power button. Thankfully I never shut my off accidentally. It's layout is simple though, spaced nicely and easy to take advantage of.

Overall, I find my self very satisfied how The Element is assembled, and I love the design! The volume knob looks great and feels good, the placement of the 6.5mm works well with the visual design, and the glowing ring during play back is the icing on the cake for me.

I had an excellent week with The Element, and during this time I paired it primarily with a Magnum V7 Driver, mounted in Black Limba housings, sleeved in Maple. Sadly, this beautiful headphone isn't mine, but I found it to be amazingly transparent and very easy to drive. Hence forth, I did my usual listening with this headphone, as opposed to my HE 4.

Power wise, The Element boasts a peak of 1.5w per channel, with a sustained output of 1w per channel. While ample enough power for the newer breed of efficient Planar Magnetic Headphones, like the Oppo PM3, The Element did not drive my HE 4 very well. It got me to a loud listening level, but really lacked any low end authority. Compared to my iBasso PB2 and my Audio GD NFB 10ES2, The Element sounded very weak with the HE 4. Which is to be expected, the earlier Planar Magnetic headphones, tended to lack sensitivity and be very power hungry. That said, I really loved listening to it with the Dynamic Magnum V7 Headphone.

Thankfully, many modern Planar Magnetic Headphones, such as those sold by Oppo, Hifiman's and Audeze are easily driven by The Element.

I found myself most impressed with the Dac Portion of this unit, as the overall sound was warm, smooth and detailed with a very good natural tone through most of the spectrum. It pulled out all of the details I'm accustom to hearing in my Audio GD NFB10ES2, the only draw back was the overall sound stage was a little diffuse. Good width, but height and depth weren't as discernible. Still, while it fell short compared to my HM 901 and Audio GD NFB 10ES2 in this regard, it was a clear step above my Behringer UCA 202 and my Hifiman HM 601's internal amp and line out to my iBasso PB2. It performed exceptionally well within it's price bracket.

The Element has a nice sense of dynamics, moving from louder to quieter passages quickly and naturally, It has a very wet sound overall, with a nice emphasis in the bass and a good fullness in the low and central mid range. I really loved the sound of the double bass in Miles Davis So What, as well as the beautiful tone in Igor Levot's Goldberg Variations even though the upper mids were a bit shouty at times.

What The Element does really well, is bring a natural warmth to a lot of the amazingly detailed but often dry and cold headphones, such as the Superlux HD 668B, Beyerdynamic DT 990 and Audio Technica AD 900X.  It offer's an amazingly well designed small foot print, with beautifully simple visuals. It's easy to use, easy to own and easy on the eyes, a lot like my first JDS Labs amp! Bringing with it  good detail with a warm natural sound  The Element is a very elegant convenient solution for any one looking for an all in one.


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## Makiah S (May 4, 2017)

Here's my Song by Song Break Down

*The Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc (Dr. Chesky)  #16 Four Surround Voices*

For this track, I found my NFB10ES2 to perform the best, presenting each voice exactly as it states it self. The left rear voice is a bit close, and on each of the other units it sounded... to the left but not quite behind my ear, only the NFB10ES2 presented that voice behind me. So really, the JDS Labs was on par with my Hifiman HM 901 with this track.

*Kind of Blue (2015 Mobile Sound Fidelity Labs Re-release) [Miles Davis] #01 So What*

Frankly, this was one of my favorite tracks to listen to with The Element, I'm used to a very hard presentation and powerful presentation with my NFB10ES2 and my Hm 901, the Element was able to present the same level of detail as those two, without sounding as hard. It had a much more relxaed sound. While the HM 601 had more consistantly pleasent tone and a more powerful low end, it did not carry as much detail as The Element did. Even running the HM 601 into my iBasso PB2, I still found my self going back to The Element.

How ever, while a touch hard, I did find that only the HM 901 and NFB10ES2 presented me with the most realsitc sense of sustain. Both the sax and trumpet, wail a little as they hold some of the longer notes, this beautiful detail was not easily grasaple with The Element or my Hm 601. Though to be fair, both the NFB10ES2 and HM 901 were in much higher price categories.

*Igor Levit: Bach, Beethoven, Rzewski #01 Goldberg Variations, BWV 988 - Aria with 30 Variations *

Frankly, while it kept up with the detail of the NFB10ES2 and the HM 901, The Element did not present proper timbre for me in this track. The low notes on the paino were too soft, the higher registers were too hard, almost shouty and everything in the middle was really wet. Detail, was again very good, but I preffered even my HM 601 to The Element for this track in particular.

*The Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc (Dr. Chesky)  #20 Drum and Bell: Walk Around Mic*

 The Element was really fun here, just like the NFB10ES2 and HM901 I got to listen to both instruments walk slowly around the mic. Best of all, I found the tone of the drum to be best on The Element. Both the Hm901 and NFB10ES2 presented it sounding... almost too hollow, where as The Element had a nice soft warmth in addition to a disintclly hollow sound. My only gripe is with the bell, it was... just too metallaic at times on The Element. Though that slight tinge of over emphasis, did help the finer details of the bell pop out again'st the warmth of the drum.

*The Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc (Dr. Chesky)  #24 Height Center Shaker*

The Element, easily presented me with changes in height up top, but not depth or anything moving beneath your preceieved center. The shaker comes up from the bottom, and I didn't get that.... sense of up from below and up above with The Element. While the shaker was below the mic, The Element presented it as if it were... in front of you not so much as underneath. It did better than the HM 601 and UCA 202, but it wasn't quite on par with the HM 901 or NFB10ES2. 

*The Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc (Dr. Chesky)  #26 Height Left Channel Shaker*

The Element, did really well here with changes in height up top, but not depth or anything moving beneath your preceieved center. The shaker comes up from the bottom, and I didn't get that.... sense of up from below and up above with The Element. While the shaker was below the mic, The Element presented it as if it were... in front of you not so much as under neath. Both the HM901 and NFB10ES2 had a very real sense of below, the shaker really sounds like it's COMING for you with those, as it creeps up from below accompanied by gentle foot steps. While listening on the Hm 901 and NFB10ES2,  If you closed your eye's it was kinda scary, as you could hear and feel the shaker next to your ear. The sounds was much softer on The Element.  The Hm 601 and Behnring UCA 202, also had this odd out in front as opposed to below sound, and each of those were also quite bad moving above you, as well as from beneath.

*The Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc (Dr. Chesky)  #28 Height Right Channel Shaker*

The right shaker track, is different from the left. What's cool is there is this obnixous echo throughout the entire track, you can hear it on both left and right channels. Neither The Element  nor the UCA 202 presented clear changes to the sutatined sound of the echo. Rather, starting with the HM 601 that sustained echo got little quiter and a little louder as the shaker... shook. There were also, audilbe foot steps, the sound of some one walking up something, these foot steps were most apparent on The Element, the NFB 10ES2 and HM 901 presented them a little further back from you. As opposed to the more in your face presentation on The Element, interestingly enough you couldn't quite perceive the foot steps on the HM 601 or UCA 202.

 Finally, what I really liked about The Element's softer more forward bass, is things like... a humm are very audible. There was in fact, this really odd 50/60hrz hum in this track, only The Element presented that detail natrually the Magnum V7 Black Lime/Maple Sleeved Dynamic.  After I noticed it, I could in fact hear it through the HM 901 and NFB10ES2 but I had to look for it! Only jumping up to my HE 4 on my NFB10ES2 gave me that same... natural presentation of such a subtle detail.

As a side note, this was not any kind of equipment introduced hum. My Spectograph did read a very low output, starting at 45 and upwards of 60 hrz, it almost sounded like an Air Conditioner running in the back ground.

*The Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc (Dr. Chesky)  #53 Heart Beat Tracks*

The best way I can describe how each Amp/Dac sounded with these Heart Beat tracks is onomatopoeia...


The NFB 10ES2 goes Ka thUD ka thUD ka thUDD ka thUDD, not quite as much attack as hm901, but more texture. Offers no help with the roll off, but maintains it's texture even with a poor sub bass response. 


The Element...It’s diffuse, doesn’t have the POWER and clarity of the HM 901 or NFB10ES2, the  transition from 40-50 is not as apparent, but diffuse low end does help with the gentle sub bass roll off on the Magnum V7 Dynamic. 


The HM 601 has a nice heavy low end, it's got the power but not the texture... and a poor transition from 40-50, keeps good power down into 20 Hrz and also helps with the Gentle Sub Bass Roll off on the Magun V7 Dynamic. 


The HM 901 goes Ka ThuD ka THUD Ka THUDD Ka THUDDD Ka THUDD, more power in sub bass, but not as much texture. Offers no help with the roll off, but maintains it's power even with a poor sub bass response.
All in all, I hope you guys find my musing helpful. I do wish I had another mid range Dac/Amp to compare with. Still out of my UCA 202 and my HM 601, The Element did an outstanding job!


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## DivineCurrent

Hey, so I want to comment on my last month's purchase of the EL DAC and AMP.

To make it short, this is endgame for me. It's enough to make the HD650s get very, very loud, even with classical. But, just loud enough to not damage the headphones. 
Basically, the reason for me getting this combo was to have a direct upgrade from the ODAC+O2 combo, and I'd say that's exactly what it is. Like the JDS Labs company itself, I take much stock in objective measurements, and the EL DAC and AMP are about the best objective performance you can get for the money, around $500.
Aesthetics are a nice touch. The outside is sturdy aluminum. 

Microsoft recently released the Creators update for Windows 10, allowing native UAC2 compatibility with no drivers required, just like Mac. I updated Windows and just plugged the EL DAC with no drivers installed, and it works like it should. 

Overall, very impressed with these products. Can't wait to see what else JDS Labs has in store!


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## Tummarellox

I recently bought the Element, it's on its way in shipment, upgrading from a cheap Creative X-fi HD USB (I hated it 'cause it lacks 44.1 khz support). Can't wait to try it! Gonna pair it with Sennheiser HD650 headphones (also on its way), right now I've got 598SE. I will also use it as a DAC with passive monitor speakers, but I'm not so sure it'll actually give me a huge benefit about that compared as now. Cheers from Italy, I'll post my 2 cents after trying it.


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## Alpha Mike

I just recently received my Element. I've paired it with the HiFiman 400i's. At first I was a little disappointed...UNTIL I read the damn manual. Boy does this impress a novice! I had a Micca Origen+ it was nice, but I couldn't get over the driver issues in Windows 10. The power this amp/dac puts out is insane. I can't get anywhere near full volume with the Element. TIL: MOST definitely don't keep the volume a the same level when switching to a cheap dynamic headphone after using planar headphone... It hurts.


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## Tummarellox

Finally arrived! Still testing it, just a quick question: when I switch it on and off I head a couple of "clicks" inside the Element, is that normal?


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## canthearyou

Tummarellox said:


> Finally arrived! Still testing it, just a quick question: when I switch it on and off I head a couple of "clicks" inside the Element, is that normal?


Yes. Those are power relays.


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## Mark Stamper

I can't post in the for sale threads yet as I am a new member.....

FOR SALE: Element EL DAC and EL AMP, 1 month old, retail $530.00 I want $400 plus shipping. I went with Schiit instead. They brand new and in excellent condition.


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## Asset0031

So how is the Element for use with Swan M50W desktop speakers and I also have Hifiman HE-400i.  My current dac/amp is Schiit Fulla 2.  But I want something with more power.


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## loki993

Anyone use the Element as an amp only? Does it sound better with a different DAC? Anyone using it with a modi..or especially even modi multibit?


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## beercanchicken

loki993 said:


> Anyone use the Element as an amp only? Does it sound better with a different DAC? Anyone using it with a modi..or especially even modi multibit?



I'm considering buying an EL Amp because I prefer separates and it will give me DAC flexibility down the line...I only wish the knob could control speaker volume.


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## loki993

beercanchicken said:


> I'm considering buying an EL Amp because I prefer separates and it will give me DAC flexibility down the line...I only wish the knob could control speaker volume.



Mines an original from before you could switch the line output so it can only run as a dac and amp or amp only. 

That said with the price of the el amp vs the price of the complete Element I don't see why someone wouldn't just pay an extra 20 bucks and get the full Element b stock just to have the dac if you ever needed it.


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## beercanchicken

loki993 said:


> Mines an original from before you could switch the line output so it can only run as a dac and amp or amp only.
> 
> That said with the price of the el amp vs the price of the complete Element I don't see why someone wouldn't just pay an extra 20 bucks and get the full Element b stock just to have the dac if you ever needed it.



Yeah, the pricing is way off, IMO.


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## loki993

beercanchicken said:


> Yeah, the pricing is way off, IMO.



Either way I dont really like mine, I was going to see if a different DAC would help, but Im eventually just going to sell it.


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## Oscar-HiFi

loki993 said:


> Either way I dont really like mine, I was going to see if a different DAC would help, but Im eventually just going to sell it.



What is it you don't like about it?


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## loki993

Oscar-HiFi said:


> What is it you don't like about it?



It's almost too neutral, too clinical and it's not as resolving as i'd like it to be. I mean it will put out a ton of power and drive anything I have to ear bleeding levels but to me it's just sort of boring otherwise.


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## Oscar-HiFi

loki993 said:


> It's almost too neutral, too clinical and it's not as resolving as i'd like it to be. I mean it will put out a ton of power and drive anything I have to ear bleeding levels but to me it's just sort of boring otherwise.



Yeah that's what they market it as, a neutral but powerful headphone amp, and for that it is brilliant


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## loki993

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Yeah that's what they market it as, a neutral but powerful headphone amp, and for that it is brilliant



And that's what I thought I wanted until I actually heard it and realized I didn't really like it. But hey that's what makes this fun..we don't all have to like the same things


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## MatthewK

I'm currently using a 6-foot USB cable with my Element. I don't notice any dropouts or anything like that. However, I'm curious to know if using a 3-foot cable would deliver slightly more power to the DAC resulting in a possible slight (perhaps even unnoticeable) improvement of some sort? As I understand it the Element's DAC is receiving power from the USB cable, and the amp is receiving power from the power cable.

Also, I love my Element! Thank you JDS!!


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## ostewart

MatthewK said:


> I'm currently using a 6-foot USB cable with my Element. I don't notice any dropouts or anything like that. However, I'm curious to know if using a 3-foot cable would deliver slightly more power to the DAC resulting in a possible slight (perhaps even unnoticeable) improvement of some sort? As I understand it the Element's DAC is receiving power from the USB cable, and the amp is receiving power from the power cable.
> 
> Also, I love my Element! Thank you JDS!!



I don't think it works like that... If the DAC isn't getting enough signal it just won't work rather than degrade in sound quality.

So you won't hear a difference in my opinion.


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## MatthewK (Sep 23, 2017)

ostewart said:


> I don't think it works like that... If the DAC isn't getting enough signal it just won't work rather than degrade in sound quality.



It's the analog part I'm wondering about. The DAC's purpose is to output digital sound as analog, and as an analog signal if it's not getting enough power it could degrade the sound quality (albeit it's likely only a miniscule amount). What I'm wondering is by how much; is there a reason JDS recommends a 3-foot cable other than reducing the possibility of digital dropouts?


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## jseaber

@MatthewK - Shorter cables reduce the possibility of characteristic impedance deviations. The longer the cable, the more opportunities are presented for impedance discontinuities. This is entirely unrelated to power. From a recent post:

*USB Impedance*
Notice that Element is built on a 4-layer PCB, while ODAC uses a 2-layer board. Differential USB signals require a characteristic impedance of 90 ohms, and this spec is only tightly controlled on a 4L board. Ideal USB characteristic impedance improves jitter and increases reliability of USB connections when using long cables (6ft+).​


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## MatthewK

Ah, thank you for clearing that up. So power isn't an issue with a 6ft+ cable, jitter and reliability of the connection is the concern. Thanks!


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## Scapewalker

Is it worth upgrading the USB cable for my element to an audioquest cinamon or carbon edition cable for example?


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## Mark Stamper

Scapewalker said:


> Is it worth upgrading the USB cable for my element to an audioquest cinamon or carbon edition cable for example?



NO.


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## theminstrel (Dec 26, 2017)

Given that the O2+ODAC will drive the HD600 to ear bleeding levels anyway, is there any meaningfl advantage to be had from trading up to the Element, if I'm not going to be buying any 600 Ohm Beyers?


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## Oscar-HiFi

theminstrel said:


> Given that the O2+ODAC will drive the HD600 to ear bleeding levels anyway, is there any meaningfl advantage to be had from trading up to the Element, if I'm not going to be buying any 600 Ohm Beyers?



It looks better


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## PacoTaco

theminstrel said:


> Given that the O2+ODAC will drive the HD600 to ear bleeding levels anyway, is there any meaningfl advantage to be had from trading up to the Element, if I'm not going to be buying any 600 Ohm Beyers?



I'd hate to say, but no. The amp would a lot better than the O2, but I would actually suggest just upgrading to EL DAC instead, as that dac is better than what is in the element.


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## evilsync

Anyone tried this with a tube amp? Wonder how a WA6 or WA7 would be paired with this.


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## Mark Stamper

PacoTaco said:


> I'd hate to say, but no. The amp would a lot better than the O2, but I would actually suggest just upgrading to EL DAC instead, as that dac is better than what is in the element.



I have an EL DAC and an EL AMP for sale. prolly  15 hours on them. I went to Schiit.


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## Burt Macklin

So can anyone tell me what are the differences between the first generation and new(er) model?
I remember seeing it mentioned here, but can't find it at the moment.

I've bought the refurbished Element, the whole time under impression it's the current one - 
only to be told "Oh, btw, it's the first generation" just now, when it's probably already on the way.
It'd be a hassle sending it back (given it's going across the Europe),
so does keeping it despite it being older model make sense? 
Or am I better getting a newer one someplace else?


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## jseaber

Burt Macklin said:


> So can anyone tell me what are the differences between the first generation and new(er) model?
> I remember seeing it mentioned here, but can't find it at the moment.
> 
> I've bought the refurbished Element, the whole time under impression it's the current one -
> ...



Here's the post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ori...fferent-from-newer-ones.870105/#post-13983797


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## Burt Macklin

Yep, that's it -
not sure why I couldn't find it, thanks


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## WayneWoondirts

Today's review on Headfonia is all about the JDS Labs Element 

www.headfonia.com/review-jds-labs-the-element-v2


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## chococya96

Anyone here have their Element stacked with EL DAC?
I'm tempted to get EL DAC to stack with my Element for more input connectivity but, I'm not sure if it's worthwhile to drop 250 bucks for "another" DAC to match with my Element. 
JDS claims that EL DAC "achieves superior measurable performance" compare to the DAC in Element though, I'm not sure if the price is justifiable.


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## Haris Javed

did just watch the  Zeos review, and now want to buy the dac? lol


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## darmanastartes

The amp in The Element is stronger than the DAC, but any measured improvement the El Dac has over The Element is unlikely to be audible imo. 
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...f-jds-the-element-dac-and-headphone-amp.4315/


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## Seijuro

If there is minimal to no audible difference between the Element and El Amp+El Dac, I would get the Element which is about $200 cheaper. They use the exact same amp so I wonder how different they could sound?


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## PacoTaco

They sound quite different. The EL Dac is quite a bit better than the Element's dac.


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## chococya96

Will Element be able to drive HD800s or T1 2nd gen without any problem?

I'm interested in getting either of these headphones which, I'm not sure if I need to "upgrade" my current amp/DAC setup or not.


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## Oscar-HiFi

chococya96 said:


> Will Element be able to drive HD800s or T1 2nd gen without any problem?
> 
> I'm interested in getting either of these headphones which, I'm not sure if I need to "upgrade" my current amp/DAC setup or not.



It drives both fine, maybe not the best synergy though


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## chococya96

Oscar-HiFi said:


> maybe not the best synergy though



Hmm, it looks like people are using tubes for these headphones, especially that produces fairly "warm" sound.

I'm ready to pull the trigger on either HD800s or T1 2nd gen but, at the same time, I don't think I can stretch my budget to get a decent tube amp to replace my Element.


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## znev777

Just got an element, love it so far. The second I saw that you can switch between headphones and speakers with the press of a button made me all giddy, incredibly useful for me! The knob is also amazing, best knob 10/10. 

But I do have a question, what exactly is the purpose of the gain button? Does it just make the sound louder? I assume it's useful if your headphones just aren't quite adequately powered to the volume you need for listening, does the gain actually provide more power to the cans or does it just artificially boost the volume? I haven't needed to use it, I was just curious


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## Seijuro (Feb 26, 2019)

Double post


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## Oscar-HiFi

znev777 said:


> Just got an element, love it so far. The second I saw that you can switch between headphones and speakers with the press of a button made me all giddy, incredibly useful for me! The knob is also amazing, best knob 10/10.
> 
> But I do have a question, what exactly is the purpose of the gain button? Does it just make the sound louder? I assume it's useful if your headphones just aren't quite adequately powered to the volume you need for listening, does the gain actually provide more power to the cans or does it just artificially boost the volume? I haven't needed to use it, I was just curious



It purely boosts the signal, it does not provide more power


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## prymortal (Feb 28, 2019)

chococya96 said:


> Will Element be able to drive HD800s or T1 2nd gen without any problem?
> I'm interested in getting either of these headphones which, I'm not sure if I need to "upgrade" my current amp/DAC setup or not.


Yes it works with the HD800s


Oscar-HiFi said:


> It drives both fine, maybe not the best synergy though


^This
Image for reference but low gain is about 6, high gain is about 2. (Windows audio at 80) on the HD800s for (my) best listening volume.
For the Hd800s, i'd highly recommend high gain for the HD800s. I have found The Element seems to limit soundstage, good microdetails but not great "synergy" all the time.
A lot of songs sound fine....mostly, but theres defintly a sense after a week that there could & should be more! Also not all low quality audio sounds bad, but some that sounds "good enough" on other headphones even the HD650/600 e.t.c. don't always sound fine or even good, But thats the headphones not the device. I say this with certainty since i have tried them & more on the same device.
Absolutely shines with gaming though!


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## MatthewK

I'm only using my Element for headphones at present, I'm not using the RCA connections at all; would there be any issues with using a data-only USB cable? Would it cause any damage if it's only receiving power from the AC adapter? What about no power with or without ground?


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## qsk78

Hello, 
Can anyone compare the Element with ifi audio micro iDSD Black Label sound wise? More similarity or difference is notifiable? 
Thank you.


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## Haris Javed

qsk78 said:


> Hello,
> Can anyone compare the Element with ifi audio micro iDSD Black Label sound wise? More similarity or difference is notifiable?
> Thank you.



sure, I can help with it. I have both units. 
The highs are sharper on Black label. (this is not a negative or positive, but personal preference) With some headphones the treble on BL can become uncomfortable (e.g. Beyerdynamics DT 990) 
The mids are better on the Element. This is very important when vocals are involved.
The Bass is amazing on the BL. This is the biggest difference between the two. Its very tight, and punchy. The Bass on element is relaxed. (not a negative or positive) 
The sound on the BL is V - Shaped, and the sound on the Element is extremely neutral. 
The Element pairs well with many headphones. (Audeze LCD - X, TH-X00, HD-650, DT990 and many others that I use). The BL can be tricky to pair with many headphones, but with some it is Pure magic (HE-560, HE-1000)

so basically you are comparing neutral vs v - shaped, and in the end it might just come down to the headphone selection you have. 
BL is also portable so I use it in office, I use my element at home. Both are use daily, and you cant go wrong with any of them. 

Good luck


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## qsk78 (Apr 16, 2019)

Thank you for you feedback. I was the owner of the micro idsd BL for 1.5 years and a loved it. Well,  I do no find it really V-shaped. May be the Element is midcentric, no?)

And yes, the bass is just awesome on the BL.  I switched to the xDSD and miss the level of SQ and resolution of the BL now but I would not come back to the micro due to a specific scenario of usage.

Details retrieval and resolution wise – is the Element somewhere close to the micro or BL is superior?


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## Haris Javed (Apr 17, 2019)

qsk78 said:


> Thank you for you feedback. I was the owner of the micro idsd BL for 1.5 years and a loved it. Well,  I do no find it really V-shaped. May be the Element is midcentric, no?)
> 
> And yes, the bass is just awesome on the BL.  I switched to the xDSD and miss the level of SQ and resolution of the BL now but I would not come back to the micro due to a specific scenario of usage.
> 
> Details retrieval and resolution wise – is the Element somewhere close to the micro or BL is superior?



Hi. to my ears the Element is 90% close to BL in detail retrieval. However that does mean much, so I would say BL is better - but please this is just my View!. I would like to see what other people say, maybe a poll of some sort? you should never make your buying decisions based on what I say! I give horrible buying advice, since I tend to buy unnecessary, and useless things, and advocate others to do the same. However I always use the items that I buy


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## Mikooki

chococya96 said:


> Hmm, it looks like people are using tubes for these headphones, especially that produces fairly "warm" sound.
> 
> I'm ready to pull the trigger on either HD800s or T1 2nd gen but, at the same time, I don't think I can stretch my budget to get a decent tube amp to replace my Element.



Element or ifi nano/micro are great benchmarks. You could easily be hang out here until you save up enough for a tube set up you really want.


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## aharris

Apologies if there is already an Element II thread, but does anyone have any experience with the Element II and Fostex T50 mods? Does it have enough power?


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## H20Fidelity

I've owned this product twice, the first time was underwhelming because the detail retrieval on my first unit sounded really soft like you had to crank the volume really loud to hear any detail, had a diffused or subdued sound, I've seen 1-2 other comments of this around the Internet. I ended up selling that one and was rather disappointed considering I'm a fan of O2 and OL DAC. Recently my full-time DAC went in for repair, I picked up The Element dual RCA version for $250 on a used classified. This unit sounds really clean and detailed like a more grown-up version of the OL DAC / 02 combo. I use it with HD800, the treble can be a little edgy but overall its a great device I'll be keeping a while.


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## Hackasaures

Hi, I have an opportunity to buy one for a good deal. How good is it compared to a Schiit Modi/Magni stack? Or compared to the Drop O2+SDAC?


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## Aerosphere

https://www.headfonia.com/jds-labs-el-stack-ii-review/

Amazing combo.


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## pitch shifter (Nov 1, 2021)

<problem solved-can be delete>


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