# Schiit Lyr - The tube rolling thread



## Loevhagen

This tread is meant for Schiit Lyr users to share experiences regarding tube rolling on the amplifier in question. There are some experiences in other threads, but sparse postings makes it difficult to keep track on experiences and interpret a consensus of what kind of tubes make what kind of effect on different headphones.
   
  Therefore, it would be nice if those having first hand experience with the Schiit Lyr could post their experiences in this thread to facilitate a knowledge base for potential owners, new owners and existing owners.
   
If the same experiences were presented in lines of:
   
*Tube*: (state full tube nomenclature)
*Source used*: (state DAC, CD-player, other)
*Headphone*: (state headphone used)
*Impressions*: (state what you perceive the combination gives in terms of "sound")
   
  Thanks.
   
  Kind regards,
   
  an enthusiast waiting on his new Lyr and seek an easy reference / knowledge base for tube rolling.


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## sridhar3

No takers? Alright, I guess I'll start.  As a caveat/disclaimer, I'm probably not the best with my jargon usage, and by no means do I have golden ears.  What I write here is purely subjective, and should be taken with a grain/bucket/dumptruck of salt.
   
*Tubes*: NOS Amperex USA 6922 gold-pin (orange print, PQ shield)
   

   

   

   

   

   
*Setup*: Sony Vaio F (Foobar2000) -> USB (Cardas Clear USB) -> Audio-gd NFB-11 (Sabre32 ES9018) USB -> Audio Metallurgy GA-0 RCA IC -> Schiit Lyr (Amperex 6922) -> Zu Mobius v2 -> Sennheiser HD 650.  DAC, amp powered by Pangea AC-9 to wall.
   

   
*Source*: FLAC Level 5.
   
*Impressions*:  Mind you, I just got these in today, so I've only been listening for a few hours.  Also, as they're NOS tubes, I don't know how much burn-in and listening time they've already received.  Compared to the JJ E88CC stock tubes (the only other tubes I've heard), it feels as if a veil has been lifted off the music.  This is especially evident in the mids and the lows.  Mids are clear and detailed, musical, and neither edgy nor recessed.  Bass is present and cleanly defined, tight, strong, punchy.  I do not feel that the highs are affected adversely by these tubes, and in fact might even sound a little better.  Listening to Saber's Edge from the Final Fantasy XIII OST, the harp and piano sound especially beautiful.  Definitely an upgrade, no question about it.  In conclusion, I doubt I'd pull these tubes in favor of something else, unless another profoundly positive tube review gets posted here (although I am looking forward to what Macedonian Hero has to say about the Mullard tubes).
   
  -sridhar3


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## Loevhagen

* happy *
   
  My humble experience with tubes / valves is from Copland / Music Angel stereo amplifiers. Back then, the JAN Philips (low noise) was good and detailed. The rest of the tubes was not for the input stage, so I won´t post any experience from them.
   
  The rest of you Lyr owners: Come on. 
   
  Let´s make this thread a knowledge base.
   
  P.t. I´m speculating buying:
   
   
JAN-Philips 6922 Low Noise
   
   
   
   

   
   
Genalex - Gold Lion E88CC / 6922
   
   

   
  However, the Genalex is said to be high gain and may introduce some noise int the play. Is that correct?
   
   
  The Siemens look promising, or am I mistaken?


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## MacedonianHero

^^^

"However, the Genalex is said to be high gain and may introduce some noise int the play. Is that correct?"

Nope...the Genalex Gold Lions are dead silent. I think slightly quieter than the stock tubes. I have recently tried my NOS Mullard CV2492s and the Genalex tubes do hold their own against them IMO. Both are a good step up from the JJ tubes.


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## MrScary

macedonianhero said:


> ^^^
> 
> "However, the Genalex is said to be high gain and may introduce some noise int the play. Is that correct?"
> 
> Nope...the Genalex Gold Lions are dead silent. I think slightly quieter than the stock tubes. I have recently tried my NOS Mullard CV2492s and the Genalex tubes do hold their own against them IMO. Both are a good step up from the JJ tubes.





Yes I agree the Gold Lions are dead silent even with my LCD-2's there is no noise. If you look at Tubedepot.com the Gold lions come in different varieties they had a high gain option. 
http://www.tubedepot.com/gl.html


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## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The GL would all be the same gain. I would imagine they test for noise and the better testing tubes would be for areas where tube noise is more noticeable as in a phone stage. 
   
  I have ordered some 6N1P's with gold plated grids. I have never heard of these before but it should be interesting. Then some nice military 1964 6N1P with extra micas and some nice 1960's 6N23P, which I like and they are a drop in for the 6DJ8 type as they don't have double the current draw of the 6N1P. I wish I had access to all my 6DJ8's back in the states but I don't so I, for me, oddly have to buy some more to populate this island with a few tubes. :^)


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## Olias of Sunhillow

My first tube-rolling experience with the Lyr came this evening. With the stock JJs and my LCD-2, the top end and bottom end were both excellent, but the mids had a hazy, almost grainy quality that was quite different from what I'd experienced with the LCD-2s on other amps.
   
  Tonight, I rolled in some Amperex (Herleen Holland) white label 6DJ8/ECC88s (date code GA2 Delta9F). Highs are a little smoother, bass is perhaps not as deep but better controlled, and the mids are back to their magic ways. These tubes are keepers.
   
  I have some Holland-made Mullards on the way as well and hope to try them out in a week or so.


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## Anaxilus

.


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## LiqTenExp

I am looking into the following:
   
  Jan Sylvania
  Sovtek 6N1P
  Siemens E88CC (borrowing from forum member wedge)
  Mullard CV2492 KB/D from 1960s (borrowing from forum member wedge)
   
  Will report back once they arrive.
   
  ------------------------------------------------------------
   
*Source used*: FLAC -> LD DAC_I

*Amp*: Schiit Audio Lyr S/N:000340

*Headphone*: Audeze LCD-2

   
   
*Tube*: JJ 6922/E88CC (stock tubes)
*Impressions*: They are a little dull or blanketed to me.  I am going to try to rate all my other tubes in reference to these.

   

*Tube*: Siemens 6922/E88CC (NOS and balanced)

*Impressions*:  The mids are relaxed and slightly recessed compared to the JJ, kinda airy sounding.  The highs are more forward and detailed compared to the JJ.  The bass is better defined than the JJ but the same apparent level.

   

*Tube*: Mullard CV2492 (KB/D coded from 1960s, NOS and balanced)

*Impressions*:  About the same in the midrange as the JJ except they are a little brighter in the top end of the guitar range.  Highs are also a little crisper and more forward as compared to the JJ and Siemens.  Bass drums sound a bit more transient and you hear a little more of the lower frequency content of the bass drum but at the same overall level as the JJ.  Overall sound is a little richer, my favorite tube so far!

   

   

  Will report back and see if anything changes after a few more hours on them all.


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## jamato8

The JAN Sylvania are gritty and they made a million of them. I wouldn't spend the money. 
   
  A nice tube to try and cheap, don't pay over 5 dollars is the 6BZ7 or 6BQ7A. They preceded the 6DJ8 family and were used heavily in TV's. They have a nice sound and in some applications I prefer them to the 6DJ8. Few people are aware of how good they are and for the price, they are worth trying.


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## Skylab

John, you know much more about this than I do, but Is the 6BQ7A safe to use in all 6922/6DJ8 applications? It has twice the plate voltage and half the transconductance of a 6DJ8, and does draw 10% more heater current (probably insignificant). But I would want Schiit to approve it's use before rolling those in, I would think.


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## Kremer930

There are also the Valhalla 6H1N tubes that Schiit will soon start supplying. A must have for the cost and performance.


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## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> There are also the Valhalla 6H1N tubes that Schiit will soon start supplying. A must have for the cost and performance.




Yeah I ordered some yesterday I hope that they keep the mids of the Gold Lions but don't lessen the bass will be interesting I ordered a bunch of strange tubes off of ebay hahaha so when I get them I will review them


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## jamato8

Quote: 





skylab said:


> John, you know much more about this than I do, but Is the 6BQ7A safe to use in all 6922/6DJ8 applications? It has twice the plate voltage and half the transconductance of a 6DJ8, and does draw 10% more heater current (probably insignificant). But I would want Schiit to approve it's use before rolling those in, I would think.


 
  The 6N1P draws about twice the current for the heaters as the 6DJ8 so that difference in the 6BZ7 doesn't matter since the Lyr can handle the 6N1P. The other parameters are fine but since it is direct coupled I checked with Schiit anyway and their retort was, "swap away". 
   
  In some cases, and since this tube is in a low power position, I have found the 6BZ7/6BQ7A or non A, to be very good sounding. It just opens up the possibilities at very low prices.


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## Skylab

Cool! Good point about the 6N1p I should have thought of that. Anyway I have a nice pair of RCA 6BQ7A that I will try when get my Lyr.


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## jamato8

What is really frustrating is all my tubes are so far away and I have so many varieties of these different ones I would like to try. So out here on this island I have to buy what I may want all over again at higher prices and tubes I don't really need to buy. Well you can never have enough of the glowing glass wonders! lol


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## HK_sends

Jason and the gang are already selling the 6N1P tube sets for the Lyr at Schiit Audio. $20 (plus shipping...and taxes if you live in CA) will get you a set of matched tubes.

Thought y'all might like to know...

Cheers!
-HK sends


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## Mad Lust Envy

Can anyone with Valhalla tubes comment on how they sound with the Lyr in comparison to the stock ones? About the only thing missing from the stock tubes is a little aggression for my taste. Mids could be better, but I wouldn't sacrifice their treble as its already to the point where any smoother would hurt it for my taste, at least with the headphones I own.


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## LiqTenExp

I got a chance to listen to two sets of tubes today, go back to page #1 for the reviews.


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## Rope

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Cool! Good point about the 6N1p I should have thought of that. Anyway I have a nice pair of RCA 6BQ7A that I will try when get my Lyr.


 
  I was pondering the HP rabbit hole depth, and after looking at your HP gear pics, I realize it goes just as deep as traditional HT gear.  Nice collection!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'm convinced you need a larger tube collection.


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## blankdisc

Just received 6N1P from Schiit today. My first impression is exactly like what Kremer930 described before. It suits HE-6 very very well. Moving from EF5 to Lyr, the only thing i missed was the mids. Lyr with stock tubes just seemed a little bit dry. Now with the 6N1P vocal becomes a lot more intimate. The sound stage does seem to shrink just a little bit maybe due to the increasing presence of the mids.

and YES, it's super HOT. now i am wondering what i am going to do during summer. might have to put a fan next to it. hehe.....i was told there was an amp caught on fire during the NYC spring meet. def don't want that happen to my Lyr. 

Kremer930, huge thanks to you. This is the reason why Head-fi is so great.

Also thank Schiit for offering these tube at such reasonable price with fantastic shipping.


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## blankdisc

btw, it only took me 10 seconds to pull both tubes out by hand.


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## HK_sends

Thanks for the impressions! I wonder how they will sound with the LCD-2s?
Anybody else tried the 6N1Ps yet?

Cheers!
-HK sends


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## Kremer930

blankdisc said:


> Just received 6N1P from Schiit today. My first impression is exactly like what Kremer930 described before. It suits HE-6 very very well. Moving from EF5 to Lyr, the only thing i missed was the mids. Lyr with stock tubes just seemed a little bit dry. Now with the 6N1P vocal becomes a lot more intimate. The sound stage does seem to shrink just a little bit maybe due to the increasing presence of the mids.
> 
> and YES, it's super HOT. now i am wondering what i am going to do during summer. might have to put a fan next to it. hehe.....i was told there was an amp caught on fire during the NYC spring meet. def don't want that happen to my Lyr.
> 
> ...




Awesome. Glad you like them. My favourite changes versus the gold lions is the overall unveiling and the more powerful bass. For $20 they are a must have. 

Thanks to Jason for originally providing a set to me.


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## Rope

I rolled in a pair of 6N1P Sovtek tubes 4 days ago.  Not terribly impressed, although the midrange is an improvement over the stock JJ's, however the low frequencies are lacking.
   
  Ordered a matched pair 6N1P's direct from Russia.  I wasn't expecting a whole lot since they cost $2.00 ea, and the only signage is OTK, which is military spec tube.  First impressions; they're the best (JJ's, Sovtek, Gold Lion) balanced tube I've rolled in the Lyr to date, however, they're only hours old.  Time will tell, but I'm giddy with excitement.
   
  Cans:  AH-DM5000/AKG-K701
  Source: Squeezebox Touch
  Media:  WMA Lossless
  BBE 422 Sonic Maximizer
  Amp: Schiit Lyr


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## blankdisc

is this the one? this is what Schiit is selling as an alternative tube for Lyr.
   

  
  Quote: 





rope said:


> Ordered a matched pair 6N1P's direct from Russia.  I wasn't expecting a whole lot since they cost $2.00 ea, and the only signage is OTK, which is military spec tube.


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## Rope

Not exactly.
   
  When I'm done crunching numbers for the day, I'll pull the 6N1P's from the Schiit and post actual pics.

   
http://www.rutubes.com/index.php?productID=345


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## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> blankdisc said:
> 
> 
> > Just received 6N1P from Schiit today. My first impression is exactly like what Kremer930 described before. It suits HE-6 very very well. Moving from EF5 to Lyr, the only thing i missed was the mids. Lyr with stock tubes just seemed a little bit dry. Now with the 6N1P vocal becomes a lot more intimate. The sound stage does seem to shrink just a little bit maybe due to the increasing presence of the mids.
> ...





Well I just rolled the Shiit 6N1P tubes into my Lyr and I agree its like a veil has been lifted they sound much better than the Gold Lions, better bass and the mids sound good, the GL's have a veil to them that is hard to describe. So far I am very impressed with the sound. they do run Hot though I touched one and went ouch! hahahaha
I have some GE 6DJ8 ECC88 tubes that I just got on Jamato8's suggestion so Im going to try them laterz.


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## blankdisc

OK. cuz the picture i just uploaded was directly taken from the 6N1P tube i received from schiit yesterday.
  
  Quote: 





rope said:


> Not exactly.
> 
> When I'm done crunching numbers for the day, I'll pull the 6N1P's from the Schiit and post actual pics.
> 
> ...


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## jamato8

There were different tube manufacture sites for the production of the 6N1P as well as different versions and periods of time when the sound produced was different due to varying manufacture quality control standards. I had a friend who was an engineer that worked with tubes in the USSR. He explained a number of years ago to me, the different 6N1P types and the reason for the different sounds as well as differing quality within the same designation. Just like tubes from the US, there was a golden age and one that was devoted more on just getting the tube out the door. Since the 6N1P as a tube was used longer in circuits, later in the 20th century, than tubes in the US, because of military use, they are often still of higher quality than the corresponding time period of tube production in the US and other areas. Tubes were still being produced in the USSR long after almost all tube production had ceased in most other countries. 
   
  So there will be variables and obviously, with this, sound differences in the 6N1P, not only with EV or IV or E designations but on production facility and when they were produced. A general sound quality can be described for the 6N1P but not in absolute terms. There are 6N1P's with better bass performance and some that are dry and a little gritty in the upper frequencies. I find the best to be from the mid sixties in black flat plate but they are nearly impossible to find now. To me the tube just mentioned a 6N1Pe, is the most balanced and smoothest sounding but it also has a slightly different design because of application, which was in pure analog circuits.


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## Mad Lust Envy

So the $20 tube from Schiit is mid forward and bassier? I'm assuming treble is a little smoother? This could actually suit the HE-4 better than the stock tubes as the treble is pretty sharp though I love it.. Guess I'll have to order them now, though I'm not sure about the reduced soundstage, as the HE-4 doesn't have a big soundstage to begin with.


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## Kremer930

Just wanted to check.  It appears that those people that love the Schiit Sovtek 6N1P tubes are mainly using Orthodynamic cans. 
   
  I never bothered listening for too long with my K702, as the HE6 sound so great, but they didnt seem to suffer any reduced performance over the Gold Lions. 
   
  Schiit offers such great value for tubes (and the Lyr) to be sold as a Matched pair for $20.
   
  I wish Jason would hurry up and start the pre-order for his DACS.  I only had to wait on preorder for three months for the Lyr.  I have been waiting at least 2 months now for the DAC and it hasnt even come close to pre-order.  dohh...  Did I tell anyone that I am impatient when it comes to these kind of things.....


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## Kremer930

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So the $20 tube from Schiit is mid forward and bassier? I'm assuming treble is a little smoother? This could actually suit the HE-4 better than the stock tubes as the treble is pretty sharp though I love it.. Guess I'll have to order them now, though I'm not sure about the reduced soundstage, as the HE-4 doesn't have a big soundstage to begin with.


 


  Other than some of your comments about liking very bright treble, and me not personally listened to the HE4 before, I actually had in mind that the Schiit tubes will suit you well.  Coming from stock tubes you should find lifted mids with greater detail and still retain the strength of the bass.  IMO the Gold Lions seemed to weaken the bass slightly.  It was a little tighter than the stock tubes but not as much energy to it.
   
  The stock tubes did improve significantly IMO with top end sparkle after quite a long burn in. 
   
  The Schiit 6N1P tubes have at least the same level of detail and top end of the Gold lions but re-introduced the powerful bottom end and removed that somewhat distant feeling, veiled??, that both the stock tubes and the Gold Lions had.
   
  For $20 I bet that you cant not try them...    You should be pretty happy though if my interpretation of your comments is close.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Well it doesn't have to be very bright treble, but it does need to have sparkle. My complaint with the Lyr was with the D7000 which had noticably recessed mids with stock tubes compared to the D7000 witht the E9 which was quite well matched, and had some impressive mids to my ears.


With the HE-4, I don't find the mids lacking, but I could see the top end being overly bright for some. Softening the treble just a little probably would still have the sparkle I like and push the mids even more slightly forward.

I will order them asap.


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## Rope




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## MrScary

Tube porn?
   
  Quote: 





rope said:


>


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## Rope

^^
   
  Is there any other kind?


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## Mad Lust Envy

Rule 34 is in full effect.


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## Kremer930

This is the tube that Schiit sells in matched pairs with warranty for $20 a pair.  Awesome value for Lyr owners.


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## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> and YES, it's super HOT. now i am wondering what i am going to do during summer. might have to put a fan next to it.


 

 DAMN!  That's a deal breaker for me.


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## jamato8

I can tell some of you guys weren't raised in the era of tubes. They produce heat, that is the nature of the beast. They have heaters which have a cathode then grid and a plate (for these small signal tubes). It isn't like they are a heater warming the room. Televisions used to be nothing but tubes and somehow people go along with it. Now this amp has two, just two, tubes. Really, while the tubes get hot and the case around them does some, that is part of living with tubes. Try having a couple of mono block amplifiers with 12 6550's glowing. Two 6N1P's is nothing. 
   
  Enjoy the music.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Just put in my order for the 6N1P tubes. Already got me rolling....bums.


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## Kremer930

jamato8 said:


> I can tell some of you guys weren't raised in the era of tubes. They produce heat, that is the nature of the beast. They have heaters which have a cathode then grid and a plate (for these small signal tubes). It isn't like they are a heater warming the room. Televisions used to be nothing but tubes and somehow people go along with it. Now this amp has two, just two, tubes. Really, while the tubes get hot and the case around them does some, that is part of living with tubes. Try having a couple of mono block amplifiers with 12 6550's glowing. Two 6N1P's is nothing.
> 
> Enjoy the music.




I agree. Whilst the tubes are hot and the heat does conduct through the heat up the case to about 50 degrees celcius. To avoid tubes is about as crazy as refusing to drink hot coffee. Both are awesome if done right.


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## maverickronin

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I can tell some of you guys weren't raised in the era of tubes. They produce heat, that is the nature of the beast. They have heaters which have a cathode then grid and a plate (for these small signal tubes). It isn't like they are a heater warming the room. Televisions used to be nothing but tubes and somehow people go along with it. Now this amp has two, just two, tubes. Really, while the tubes get hot and the case around them does some, that is part of living with tubes. Try having a couple of mono block amplifiers with 12 6550's glowing. Two 6N1P's is nothing.
> 
> Enjoy the music.


 
  I don't get why people make big deal about this sort of stuff either.
   
  I have 5 tubes on my desk.  The largest is more than 21" inches across and along with its supporting electronics it draws nearly 150W.  It delivers a signal, that in some areas, remains unmatched by any sensibly priced "modern" alternatives.  You've likely owned similar products in the past as well.
   
  Any guesses?
   
  Answer here.


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## USAudio

You tube rollers must have amazing memories and golden ears to be able to ascertain all the SQ differences between the various tubes.
  I couldn't do it.  I'd have to have 2 units side by side, with matched levels, identical sources and headphones, and do some quick A/B comparisons to be able to describe the differences ... if at all!


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## Mad Lust Envy

My A/B is gonna be a bit simpler and easier. I'll be comparing the lows, mids, and highs vs the Fiio E9 as a reference point, as I know the strengths and weaknesses of the E9 compared to the stock Lyr tubes. The stock tubes are recessed in the mids and have slightly less sparkle, and the bass is more refined and controlled, but less prominent, but with more punch, and more natural, thicker tone. Going by what people are saying, the Valhalla tubes should have more prominent bass, more mids to push it closer to the E9's, and even less sparkle. Time will tell.


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## sperandeo

I just ordered a pair of 6N1P from Schiit for my Lyr.
 I'm so excited because this will be my first tube rolling experience.   
  I hope I can hear a difference, the $20.00 cost quickly turned to $40.00 with Canadian shipping.


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## MrScary

sperandeo said:


> I just ordered a pair of 6N1P from Schiit for my Lyr.
> I'm so excited because this will be my first tube rolling experience.
> I hope I can hear a difference, the $20.00 cost quickly turned to $40.00 with Canadian shipping.




Ohhh you will hear a difference Im running them now.. Waiting on some 6N1P's from Russia from the 70's so using the Schiit until they get here hahahha


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## Wedge

I think it depends on how different the tubes are from one another.  If you have a pair of new production JJs and you are comparing them to say NOS Mullards, you will hear a pretty dramatic difference in my opinion.  LiqTenExp used to tell me "Tubes matter but not so much that I should spend (insert some high price relative to new prod tube here)," now ask him how noticeable how different the sound characteristic of the amp is with the NOS Mullard as opposed to new production JJs.  
  Quote: 





usaudio said:


> You tube rollers must have amazing memories and golden ears to be able to ascertain all the SQ differences between the various tubes.
> I couldn't do it.  I'd have to have 2 units side by side, with matched levels, identical sources and headphones, and do some quick A/B comparisons to be able to describe the differences ... if at all!


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## Rope

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> You tube rollers must have amazing memories and golden ears to be able to ascertain all the SQ differences between the various tubes.
> I couldn't do it.  I'd have to have 2 units side by side, with matched levels, identical sources and headphones, and do some quick A/B comparisons to be able to describe the differences ... if at all!


 

  
  [size=small]If your ABX assessments were directed at solid state gear, providing a few criteria are met, such as, high input impedance, low output impedance, reasonably low distortion, clipping, and volume matching are all in check, I agree 100%.  However, with the inclusion of tubes in the equation, since the materials used, manufacturing processes, specifications, and diverse tooling, are all variables, and in some cases suspect, I disagree.  Also, considering the position of the analog tube in the audio reproduction chain, in the case of the Lyr being the input stage, different sounding tubes are a unavoidable, and quite evident.[/size]
   
  [size=small]BTW, I,ve never been know for my "golden ear."[/size]


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## jamato8

The tubes in the amp are part of the circuit. The signal travels through them. There are circuits that have more or less influence on the sound, depending upon the placement of the tube in the circuit, such as a cathode follower, which doesn't have much influence on the sound. In this case the sound would arguably be quite influenced by the tube placement and therefore, by the inherent sound qualities of a particular tube, be that good or bad.


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## LiqTenExp

Ok so here we go....
   
  I stopped by forum member Wedge's house yesterday with a plan to try some tube rolling in the LYR.  
   
  Setup consisted of a Laptop feeding a DAC_I via USB or a Pure I-20 via coax to drive the LYR.  Headphones used were Audeze LCD-2 (two pairs), and Beyer DT990-600
   
  One type of tube was placed in one channel and the competitor tube was placed in the other channel on the LYR for comparison purposes.  This way one could use a L/R fader and easily back to back compare the tubes.  Once the comparison was complete the tubes were swapped L/R to verify the comparison was still valid the other way around in the reviewers ears.  
   
  Mullard CV2492 (1960's style)
  You already know what I think of these from my previous review.  This is to me my golden standard for the next couple reviews.  They are though the most expensive tube in this review by far.

   
  Amperex A-Frames ECC88 (Holland made)
  These tubes are very similar to the Mullards.  Their mids were a little more grity sounding, highs are very close, bass was lacking a tiny tiny bit of extension but levels were darn close.  Might next best choice to the Mullards.  I had a hard time choosing between these and the Mullards when it came down to selecting my favorite pair.

   
  Ampered Bugle Boys 6DJ8 (Holland made)
  Overall the Bugle Boys were leaner, airy, light on bass, (less lush) than the Mullards.  I wasn't a fan of them but they sound like a brighter JJ (less veiled)

   
  Telefunken E88CC (German made)
  Got a little funky, nice sounding tube, less wet/lush in the mids but equivalent in highs/lows to the Mullards, Might be a good tube for someone looking for something a little airy compared to the lush sound of the Mullards.  I think some people may find these a better alternative to the A-Frame Amperex depending on their personal preferences.  

   
  My two favorites, very close in sound but not in price, LOL

   
  Guess the tubes?

   
  Setup: LD DAC_I driving Lyr and then later switched to NFB-12

   

   
  Headphones used during comparison (Audeze LCD2- Beyerdynamics DT990-600)

   
  Travel light always, right? (NFB-12, DAC_I, LYR, LD MKIII, cables, tubes)

   
  Camera case, LCD-2, DT990, backpack full of stuff (HD, stand, cables, etc)

   
  I would like to thank forum member Wedge for the excellent selection of NOS tubes to roll through.  I imagine he will chime in with his own opinions.  One thing we both will agree on, the Mullards were identifiable when comparing them side to side to any of these tubes.  The A-Frame Amperex and the Telefunken were a very good choice of tube to roll to depending on personal preferences.  I don't want it to sound like the Mullards are the "only" option out there.  They were for me but everyone has their own opinions.  I know Wedge really liked the Telefunkens.
   
  My favorite tubes in order:
   

 Mullards
 Amperex A-Frames
 Telefunken
 Bugle Boys
 Siemens
 JJ (stock)
   
   
  Oh, and maybe we will do a quick review on Leben 300XS vs. Lyr (both with Mullard tubes) setup in the main Lyr thread?:

   
  This was hard for us to really hate either....look for a comparison in the main Lyr thread (will link to later once complete)


----------



## Skylab

Very nice post! The Mullard 2492 are my personal favorite 6DJ8 variant as well, it's what I use in my Woo WA2.


----------



## blankdisc

GREAT review, and superb pictures!!! Just wondering what you thoughts on 6N1P tubes Schiit is currently offering for $20.


----------



## LiqTenExp

I haven't picked up a set yet, not sure if I want to bother but for the price possibly.


----------



## Kremer930

Yes. Awesome pics and comparison. Would have been nice to have had the gold lions and the Shiit 6N1P's there too to give some understandable reference in sound quality. I guess you could achieve that by comparing back to stock. 

Good work none the less.


----------



## LiqTenExp

That would make for quite the review, if anyone wants to loan me a set we can take a listen.  Right now I am very happy with the current selection.  I don't know if I want to pop for another 90 bucks to try the gold lions.  I will probably try the 6n1p eventually.
   
  Thanks for the comments on the pictures.  I am still learning, first DSLR.  Shooting in the darker light levels is rough.  I refuse to use the stock flash since it just whites everything out.  I plan on getting a nice canon EX series so I can flash up or dispersed.  For now all of those were taken w/o flash.


----------



## blankdisc

That would be awesome. Have been listening to 6N1P for several days. Tried to switch back to JJ once, but immediately switched back in 15 mins.  The only complaint i have with 6N1P right now is that the vocal sometimes is too close for my taste, almost Grado like i would say.



liqtenexp said:


> I haven't picked up a set yet, not sure if I want to bother but for the price possibly.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> GREAT review, and superb pictures!!! Just wondering what you thoughts on 6N1P tubes Schiit is currently offering for $20.


 


  A pair of 6N1Ps for $20? You can pick these up on ebay for $2 or less a piece. You can also get the 6N1P-EV, a ruggedized version of the 6N1P.


----------



## blankdisc

Well, what you get from Schiit is a matched set, plus their reputation and warranty. i think that it is worth the extra, especially it's only $20 after all. A lot of things are much cheaper on eBay, but i would rather buy from the trade forum here.


----------



## wuwhere

If it has a an auto-bias circuit, the tubes can be off slightly. I've bought some new Russian tubes 6N3Ps and 6P1P-EVs from ebay, they were shipped from Russia or somewhere from eastern Europe. I'm just providing this info here. You can buy your tubes where ever you want, its your money.


----------



## ZorgDK

Nice post and photos LiqTenExp. It's interesting to read about other's experiences with different tubes. I'm new to all this, and so far I'm settled on trying out the 6N1Ps from Schiit. They should be good for both the HD650 and the HE-6 when I get that.


----------



## LiqTenExp

There are plenty on ebay for cheap (under 5 a pair).  Issue is they want 6+ to ship and then it takes a month because they are coming from russia.
   
   
  Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> A pair of 6N1Ps for $20? You can pick these up on ebay for $2 or less a piece. You can also get the 6N1P-EV, a ruggedized version of the 6N1P.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





liqtenexp said:


> There are plenty on ebay for cheap (under 5 a pair).  Issue is they want 6+ to ship and then it takes a month because they are coming from russia.


 

  
  Mine only took two weeks and this was during the last year's December holidays. It may be less now. But with the price of fuel going through the roof, well you know how that goes.


----------



## wuwhere

Plenty of tube sellers advertise their tubes as matched pair or match quad. They even specify which tube test equipment they use. What they don't state is how long ago or how often they have their tube testers calibrated. These test equipment are very old and I'm sure they get out of spec.


----------



## Wedge

I will say that as it was only my second time sitting down with the Lyr, I thought it was a great amp for the money, actually quite impressed.  As for tubes I like all kinds of sounds and not particularly one.  My favorite are the Mullards, but they are either hard to find or expensive, and it depends on where you get them, as I've spoken to Skylab a few times about where to buy tubes.  I will buy tubes off of Ebay, but if you are new to tubes or don't have a tester, this is risky business, however good deals can be found here.  
   
  Just so we make a clear distinction, as I really don't know the difference, the Mullards we used were halo getters, from the 60s, I have seen also dimple disc getters from the 70s but I didn't buy these.  I really just like the sound of most Mullard tubes in general.  It might seem a little snobby, because practically all Mullards are very pricey, but they tend to offer very good bass weight and sound, they have a slightly rich/lush presentation in the mids (which is perfect for my taste), and very detailed highs, but they are never bright (in my experience so far).  Again, these are my impressions of using all different types of Mullard tubes, and sort of an over generalization.   But I would say I liked all the tubes, they all just sound different.  
   
  As for pair matching its all depends on the amps design if the tubes aren't run to their limits its generally not necessarily required they be matched.  In the NOS world its hard to find truly matched pairs, most places just try to get as close a match as possible.


----------



## sridhar3

LiqTenExp and Wedge, thanks for the impressions.
   
  How much do those Mullards tend to run?  I'd like to get a pair and compare them to the Amperex for myself.


----------



## Wedge

Ive seen then run from $150 to $300 a pair.  Depends on the year, I noticed the 70s Dimple Disc Getter can be had for around $125 a pair.


----------



## Kremer930

wedge said:


> Ive seen then run from $150 to $300 a pair.  Depends on the year, I noticed the 70s Dimple Disc Getter can be had for around $125 a pair.




Hmm. It is going to take a bad case of upgraditis or an itchy credit card to splash 30% the cost of a new Schiit DAC. Now I am even more interested to know how the mullards sound compared to the Schiit 6N1P's. 

As for snobbery of tube brands, I get you. I have a soft spot for Tung Sols.


----------



## Wedge

I have a similar soft spot for Tung-Sols, as can be seen by my tube collection.


----------



## jamato8

I need to quit reading this thread. I have most all of these tubes but they are in storage and as such, I may as well not have them, but I enjoy tubes so much it is a shame I can't use them. I find it fun, one, to listen to the music but also to hear the differences in the tubes. So far the best 6DJ8 I have heard is an Amperex that is a relabeled USSR tube. After Amperex stopped manufacture they started to buy tubes from many places, which also became more common with most all tube manufactures as the production of tubes and the facilities themselves, wound down. When I went to China to live a few years back I took a small box of 6DJ8 types with me in pairs in case I bought an amp that used them. When I finally got to China, I checked my baggage and the tubes were gone. I didn't need them while there but it was an odd outcome.


----------



## Rope

Blankdisc -
   
  Here's a better shot of those tubes purchased for $2.00 ea.  Best tubes I've heard to date, Gold Lion's inclusive.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> When I went to China to live a few years back I took a small box of 6DJ8 types with me in pairs in case I bought an amp that used them. When I finally got to China, I checked my baggage and the tubes were gone. I didn't need them while there but it was an odd outcome.


 

 I don't know when this happened to you, but nowadays it's not an odd outcome at all if you get where you're going and you find stuff missing from your luggage.
   
  OT, but my uncle and I were traveling to India, and he had locks on all his stuff.  We get up to security, and the TSA agent says to him, "Sir, you need to remove these locks from your luggage, in case we need to go through it."  He thinks for a second and then says, "No."  The agent asks, "Why not?"  He looks at them, and completely deadpan, he says, "Because you guys steal $h*7."
   
  Back on topic, I can't seem to find the Mullard halo CV2492 tubes anywhere online.  This is going to be harder than I expected.


----------



## jamato8

What is so cool about the 6N1P is that so many were made. You can pick them up for as low as a dollar each and they are tested military tubes (OTK). On some I find the bass reproduction can be a little light but not often and I don't remember which one. The Rocket always seems to be pretty good. 
   
  Has anyone tried the direct sub for the 6DJ8, the 6N23P? I have some very good one, in storage, gag, and they also sound excellent, like a very good 6922. I do have some nice Russian or USSR tubes coming here but who knows when they will wing their way tot he island. At least they float.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> What is so cool about the 6N1P is that so many were made. You can pick them up for as low as a dollar each and they are tested military tubes (OTK). On some I find the bass reproduction can be a little light but not often and I don't remember which one. The Rocket always seems to be pretty good.
> 
> Has anyone tried the direct sub for the 6DJ8, the 6N23P? I have some very good one, in storage, gag, and they also sound excellent, like a very good 6922. I do have some nice Russian or USSR tubes coming here but who knows when they will wing their way tot he island. At least they float.




I have a pair of 6N23P's coming from Russia haha same here when they will make their way to Texas is ???


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  At least Texas can be found. We are so small that there isn't even a dot on the map, just the Federated States of Micronesia. We do have the US mail though and it costs the same to mail a package to the US as within the US. No wonder the post office is having a hard time of it, they sure don't make money off anything shipped from or to here.


----------



## wuwhere

I found this old thread from Audiogon http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1015540966
  Read the bottom post.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, that was done with a few names, even Arcturus but that deal was done back in the 1950's. Arcturus used to be an excellent tube but the relabeled ones for the most part are junk, rejects. They went out of business and the name was bought by a relabeler. It has been going on for a long time. Now they are marking Bugle Boy on tubes and it is, IMO, really wrong but if you know the old tubes and the etching, you won't have any problem. Buyer beware.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> At least Texas can be found. We are so small that there isn't even a dot on the map, just the Federated States of Micronesia. We do have the US mail though and it costs the same to mail a package to the US as within the US. No wonder the post office is having a hard time of it, they sure don't make money off anything shipped from or to here.




wow thats good about the mail atleast its not costing you an arm and a leg


----------



## wuwhere

Tubes are fun. If you really want to get into it, I suggest attending ham fest. That's were you get to see the real thing and learn from the old pros.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Tubes are fun. If you really want to get into it, I suggest attending ham fest. That's were you get to see the real thing and learn from the old pros.


 

 Yes, and you can get some good deals.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Did Brimar make any tube variant that would work with the Lyr?  I was partial to them in my Little Dot, but I couldn't find anything on ebay - then again, I seriously doubt I hit all of the tube variants compatible with the 6922/E88CC/ECC88/argh my brains hurt.


----------



## Skylab

I don't think so.  I bought some Brimar tubes labeled ECC88, but they were very clearly Russian.  I'd be careful there.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Well feh.  Might be watching for some Mullards, then.  Thanks for the info.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I don't think so.  I bought some Brimar tubes labeled ECC88, but they were very clearly Russian.  I'd be careful there.


----------



## LiqTenExp

If you have the funds or even if you don't you won't be unsatisfied, get some Mullards in that bad boy!
  
  Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> Well feh.  Might be watching for some Mullards, then.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got my 61NP tubes today as I was heading to work. Guess I'll be spending some time tonight comparing...


----------



## USAudio

The Schiit Lyr ships with JJ ECC88's and the Cavalli Liquid Fire uses JJ Tesla 6922's: http://cavalliaudio.com/products/liquid-fire-amp/
  Per the JJ website: http://www.jj-electronic.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=10
  ... it appears the JJ ECC88 that is shipped with the Lyr is the exact same tube as the JJ 6922 that ships with the Cavalli Liquid Fire?
  Is that correct?


----------



## jamato8

Interesting amp but I am not sure why it costs so much and then will cost even more.


----------



## Skylab

The ECC88 is a 6DJ8 and the E88CC is a 6922. I can't say for sure that the JJ's are being true to the original specs, but a 6DJ8 and 6922 are slightly different. That said, but amps are using JJ's. Not a lot of choice, if you don't want to source NOS tubes.


----------



## HK_sends

I rolled the Genelex Gold Lion tubes into my Lyr and I must say I am impressed. Some have described the bass as "recessed" but I would venture "under more control"...the bass is there and delivers when needed, but it doesn't feature prominently. I find these tubes provide a more balanced, natural sound with the LCD-2s. I haven't tried the 6N1Ps I got from Schiit Audio yet, cause I'm still grooving to these. Any impressions of the 6N1Ps with the LCD-2s?

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The ECC88 is a 6DJ8 and the E88CC is a 6922. I can't say for sure that the JJ's are being true to the original specs, but a 6DJ8 and 6922 are slightly different. That said, but amps are using JJ's. Not a lot of choice, if you don't want to source NOS tubes.


  It's interesting, if you look at the page I linked to at the JJ website the tube is listed as "*E88CC - 6922, 6DJ8*", if you click on the More>> link at the top of that document it says "ECC88"  ... so it seems they're positioning their tube (perhaps incorrectly?) as a replacement for all the above.  http://www.jj-electronic.com/pdf/E88CC.pdf
  The entry in Wikipedia for the 6DJ8 says:
  "Although not originally designed for the purpose, it became popular in hi-fi audio amplifiers. European-produced version of the tube is designated *ECC88*. An industrial (improved/higher ratings) version of the tube is designated *6922*."


----------



## PurpleCow

hey guys Im wondeirng how well does the Lyr pair with the DT880 600 ohm?


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I rolled the Genelex Gold Lion tubes into my Lyr and I must say I am impressed. Some have described the bass as "recessed" but I would venture "under more control"...the bass is there and delivers when needed, but it doesn't feature prominently. I find these tubes provide a more balanced, natural sound with the LCD-2s. I haven't tried the 6N1Ps I got from Schiit Audio yet, cause I'm still grooving to these. Any impressions of the 6N1Ps with the LCD-2s?
> 
> Cheers!
> -HK sends




The 6N1p tubes from Schiit sound much better than the GL's I feel like I wasted 100.00 on the Gold Lions they are too mid centric and light on bass. Try the 6N1p's from Schiit you will throw out the GL's faster than the roadrunner
with the LCD-2's


----------



## jamato8

Any reports on the GE grey glass in the Lyr? They can sound very good but every circuit is a little different.


----------



## MrScary

I got some motorola branded GE Grey glass that I have not tried yet I will let you know


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Any reports on the GE grey glass in the Lyr? They can sound very good but every circuit is a little different.




In fact I think I will roll them now..

Well They are bit lighter on bass then the Schiit 6N1P's but they are much smoother throughout the bass,mids and highs I kinda like them with my EE tube DAC which is a bit highly resolving the GE's have almost a calming sound to my ears
I will have to listen to some 192khz music to see how they handle the higher resolution audio..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have enough experience with the HE-4 to truly give an impression between the stock tubes and the 61NPs, so I ended up just putting in the 61NPs as soon as I got home. They sound fantastic right off the bat with the HE-4. I don't wanna say what the differences are because I honestly don't know. As soon as I get my D7000, I WILL know what the differences are, because the D7000 with the stock tubes has a sound I can't forget in comparison to the E9.

My stock tubes must have literally over 200 hours now... so these will get the same treatment as I wait for the D7000 to come back to me.

If anything so far, I BELIEVE (please take this as a guesstimation) that the bass is less prominent, more textured. Mids sound more forward, and treble isn't as sharp. Please give me some time to really get a feel for these. That's all I can say for now... and I'm only making some random assumptions from what I remember of the stock tubes. Burn in, and time with them will make me give a much more realistic impression.


----------



## MrScary

mad lust envy said:


> I don't have enough experience with the HE-4 to truly give an impression between the stock tubes and the 61NPs, so I ended up just putting in the 61NPs as soon as I got home. They sound fantastic right off the bat with the HE-4. I don't wanna say what the differences are because I honestly don't know. As soon as I get my D7000, I WILL know what the differences are, because the D7000 with the stock tubes has a sound I can't forget in comparison to the E9.
> 
> My stock tubes must have literally over 200 hours now... so these will get the same treatment as I wait for the D7000 to come back to me.
> 
> If anything so far, I BELIEVE (please take this as a guesstimation) that the bass is less prominent, more textured. Mids sound more forward, and treble isn't as sharp. Please give me some time to really get a feel for these. That's all I can say for now... and I'm only making some random assumptions from what I remember of the stock tubes. Burn in, and time with them will make me give a much more realistic impression.




put one stock tube in and one 6N1p and then do a fader comparison that gives a quick feel for the difference if you cant remember


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Though these puppies are brand new, the mids are close to how forward they are on the E9, though still not quite as forward (which is a good thing as the E9 to me is too mid rich with mid neutral or mid forward phones)..... One thing I definitely know is that the E9 is mid rich. The 6N1P tubes has better mids than the stock Lyr tubes. Of that I'm absolutely sure. Though the E9 isn't driving the HE-4 to it's full potential, the general tonal balance is obvious. The treble on the 61NP isn't near to how strong they are on the E9, which is a GREAT thing for the HE-4. I don't think people will complain about recessed mids on the HE-4 with these tubes, and most shouldn't find the treble too sharp now. TBH, although I can't quite remember the sound off the stock tubes in comparison... these are NOTICEABLY better matched for the HE-4.

I believe these tubes (even pre burn-in) would very much please the audiophile crowd who happen to own the HE-4. It sounds REALLY good, and very balanced, but so did the stock tubes to me... at least with the HE-4. I didn't particularly care for the stock tubes on the D7000, PC360, M50, but did like them with the KSC75 and HE-4.

I can't wait to truly compare them. I wish I had two Lyrs... 

Mr. Scary.... I don't trust myself to do it that way. I'm gonna wait on my D7000. The 6N1P are gonna stay in my Lyr until then. I won't be getting those back for 3-4 weeks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so I put on my roomie's M50s and tested both the E9 and Lyr with the new tubes. The M50 definitely doesn't need much from either amp. In any case, the E9 still bests the Lyr with the M50. It sounds clearer, mids are just perfect, but the treble is a bit edgy in comparison to the Lyr. Again the M50 has less control of the bass (but it's still VERY controlled), and sounds fuller in the lower end, whereas the Lyr has bass control like I've never heard, and it punches just slightly harder. My personal preference is sub bass over mid bass, so I prefer the E9's room filling bass. To me, it's not a competition, the E9 just sounds better than the Lyr with the M50s IMHO. The Lyr however is CLOSE, and I'm sure people would prefer it for having less treble edge and less bass 'bloat'. You'd just be giving up those awesome E9 mids for that better bass control and 'pleasant-sounding' treble..

Just a tiny FYI... going from the HE-4 to the M50 was jaw dropping. It was like going from Ferrari to a Pinto. The difference in SQ is staggering. The M50 sounds SOOOO muffled in comparison. It did take me a few minutes to adjust to the lower quality sound of the M50. Crazy, as I REALLY like the M50.... just... once you hear something like the HE-4...uhh, you'll see why the M50 is $100 and the HE-4 isn't. 

So the new tubes didn't exactly change how I felt when I tested the M50 with these two amps before.

BTW, the new tubes still have plenty of bass for the M50s. I assume the same for the D7000.

Again, this is all out the box, so YMMV after burn in.


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> jamato8 said:
> 
> 
> > Any reports on the GE grey glass in the Lyr? They can sound very good but every circuit is a little different.
> ...




Well I listed to some Mozart at 192khz had to up the volume just a tad over the Schitt 6N1p's as the GE's were a bit lower in volume. I like these tubes a lot they have a much smoother presentation then the Schiit 6N1p's the GE's just sound better. I am going to keep these in the Lyr over the Schiit 6N1P's which are just a tad harsh with my setup. Thanks Jamato8 for the recommendation of these tubes.


----------



## USAudio

Quote:


purplecow said:


> hey guys Im wondeirng how well does the Lyr pair with the DT880 600 ohm?


 

 "... Mike Moffat really likes the Lyr also with his 600Ω beyerdynamics"
  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html


----------



## PurpleCow

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Quote:
> 
> "... Mike Moffat really likes the Lyr also with his 600Ω beyerdynamics"
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html


 


  thank you, so I sent over an email to Jason over at Schiit and this is what he replied with
   
  "The Valhalla will be the more smooth and natural of the two (more tube-like, which, well, definitely makes sense, since it's all-tube). The Lyr turns up the dynamics and effortless presentation. Soundstaging on the Valhalla is a little better, but the Lyr is no slouch in that regard either."
   
  is it possible to give the Lyr, the smooth and natural characteristics the Valhalla has with different tubes?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

BTW, I have big hands and fingers.... taking the tubes out took me no more than a few seconds each. It's NOT hard. Just grip the sides as best as you're able and gently rock it back and forth as you're pulling. People are making it a bigger deal than it really is once you get the 'trick' to get them out.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well I listed to some Mozart at 192khz had to up the volume just a tad over the Schitt 6N1p's as the GE's were a bit lower in volume. I like these tubes a lot they have a much smoother presentation then the Schiit 6N1p's the GE's just sound better. I am going to keep these in the Lyr over the Schiit 6N1P's which are just a tad harsh with my setup. Thanks Jamato8 for the recommendation of these tubes.


 
  That is one thing I noticed about the later 6N1P and why I like the 1965 black flat plate I have, they can sound gritty while the 1965 doesn't. There are many versions of the 6N1P though as there is of the Amperex. Even when I get back to Tucson I don't know if I will be able to get to my 6DJ8 types as they are in the back of my storage. I think I have at least 15 pair of the GE grey glass but I would really like to get to the old 6N1P's and some Amperex that are really USSR but the best sounding 6DJ8 I have heard. It is nice that the Lyr shows up the traits of the tubes so well. Some tube circuits don't and you don't really have the influence that you might want or the ability to mold the sound, which to me, is more fun.


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> mrscary said:
> 
> 
> > jamato8 said:
> ...






jamato8 said:


> That is one thing I noticed about the later 6N1P and why I like the 1965 black flat plate I have, they can sound gritty while the 1965 doesn't. There are many versions of the 6N1P though as there is of the Amperex. Even when I get back to Tucson I don't know if I will be able to get to my 6DJ8 types as they are in the back of my storage. I think I have at least 15 pair of the GE grey glass but I would really like to get to the old 6N1P's and some Amperex that are really USSR but the best sounding 6DJ8 I have heard. It is nice that the Lyr shows up the traits of the tubes so well. Some tube circuits don't and you don't really have the influence that you might want or the ability to mold the sound, which to me, is more fun.




Yeah I am really liking the Lyr's ability to show the qualities of the tubes as well . I think I had to much fun ordering tubes my pocketbook this month has a hole hahahah


----------



## achl354

IMO the Gold Lions are all-rounded, more airy and detailed
   
  the 6N1P are strong and tight on the lower end, sounds more 'energized', whereas the GL sounds more polished and smooth
   
  the stock tubes i cant exactly recall, but from memory they sound pretty good
   
  have 2 more sets of tubes coming and will try them out and give a more detailed comparison
   
  but then, each lyr + tube combo would sound different on everyone's system, to me, the Lyr is great value for $$$


----------



## Snips

What are the differences between the Schiit 6N1P and Amperex A-frames? Given the price difference, I don't want to waste money or be left wanting.


----------



## LiqTenExp

It drives 600 ohm phones easily.  I love the way it sounds with my DT990-600.  I used to use my LD MKIII primarily for them but now I like using the Lyr more.  The LCD-2 and DT990-600 have to learn to share the Lyr.
  
  Quote: 





purplecow said:


> hey guys Im wondeirng how well does the Lyr pair with the DT880 600 ohm?


----------



## achl354

Quote: 





snips said:


> What are the differences between the Schiit 6N1P and Amperex A-frames? Given the price difference, I don't want to waste money or be left wanting.


 


 i am getting a pair of the Amperex A-frames and the Philips [size=16pt]*ECC84/6CW7*[/size] tomorrow, hopefully it will be bring surprise =)


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *USAudio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It's interesting, if you look at the page I linked to at the JJ website the tube is listed as "*E88CC - 6922, 6DJ8*", if you click on the More>> link at the top of that document it says "ECC88"  ... so it seems they're positioning their tube (perhaps incorrectly?) as a replacement for all the above.  http://www.jj-electronic.com/pdf/E88CC.pdf
> The entry in Wikipedia for the 6DJ8 says:
> "Although not originally designed for the purpose, it became popular in hi-fi audio amplifiers. European-produced version of the tube is designated *ECC88*. An industrial (improved/higher ratings) version of the tube is designated *6922*."


 
   
  This is very typical - JJ is ignoring the "higher ratings" part of the 6922 and just saying that 6DJ8=6922.  Again, this is not strictly true, although they are close enough that it doesn't really matter that much.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





achl354 said:


> IMO the Gold Lions are all-rounded, more airy and detailed
> 
> the 6N1P are strong and tight on the lower end, sounds more 'energized', whereas the GL sounds more polished and smooth
> 
> ...






 Want to buy another set of Gold Lions I think that for the money they are very disappointing, way to mid centric and not airy at all but again we all have different setups etc I think that for 40.00 you can get a better set off of Ebay then the GL's be it the GE's or the Russian rockets etc


----------



## USAudio

Quote:


> This is very typical - JJ is ignoring the "higher ratings" part of the 6922 and just saying that 6DJ8=6922.  Again, this is not strictly true, although they are close enough that it doesn't really matter that much.


 
  So essentially the JJ Tesla 6922 used by the Liquid Fire and the JJ ECC88 used by the Lyr are the exact same tube?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Quote:
> So essentially the JJ Tesla 6922 used by the Liquid Fire and the JJ ECC88 used by the Lyr are the exact same tube?


 

 I don't know for sure, but it seems likely.  Again, though, I am not sure there is any significance to that.  What choice does either of them really have?  I guess Cavilli could consider supplying it with Gold Lions since the Liquid Fire is a more upscale amp.  But if I were making tube amps, I would supply whatever tube I thought was halfway decent but not too expensive, knowing many people will be rolling tubes anyway.  The JJ is a decent, cheap, readily available tube.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the impressions!  Now, I am curious to A/B compare them with the Gold Lions for the type of music I listen to.
  
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## DemonicLemming

Are the GE's also referred to as "smoked glass" tubes?  Saw some called out like that on ebay, but wasn't sure if they were the same thing.
   
  This thread is doing bad things to my wallet.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

I think I missed something...what GE tubes and where can I get them?
   
  Thanks,
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I think I missed something...what GE tubes and where can I get them?
> 
> Thanks,
> -HK sends




GE 6DJ8 ECC88 Grey Glass tubes

I got mine off of Ebay good luck


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I don't know for sure, but it seems likely.  Again, though, I am not sure there is any significance to that.  What choice does either of them really have?  I guess Cavilli could consider supplying it with Gold Lions since the Liquid Fire is a more upscale amp.  But if I were making tube amps, I would supply whatever tube I thought was halfway decent but not too expensive, knowing many people will be rolling tubes anyway.  The JJ is a decent, cheap, readily available tube.


 Even though the JJ is just a halfway decent and cheap tube, Alex Cavalli is sure able to work magic with it in his Liquid Fire -- based on the accolades the Liquid Fire is getting with the JJ's installed.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> Are the GE's also referred to as "smoked glass" tubes?  Saw some called out like that on ebay, but wasn't sure if they were the same thing.
> 
> This thread is doing bad things to my wallet.


 
  I believe so.  That's what I'm running in my DAC.  Love the sound.


----------



## Skylab

There is a LOT of hype around the Cavalli LF, which may well be deserved - time will tell.  The one I heard at Can Jam sounded very good, but for me it wasn't the second coming that I read some people think it is.  But that was just a 10 minute audition at CanJam, so I don't pretend to be the last word on it.  No doubt though, circuit design has more impact on the sound than the tube choice will.


----------



## MrScary

kwkarth said:


> I believe so.  That's what I'm running in my DAC.  Love the sound.




I would ask Jamato8 if the Grey Glass and smoked are the same thing they didn't look like it when I was looking at Ebay a few minutes ago but I could be wrong mine are dark grey.. Jamto8 suggested them to me


----------



## HK_sends

Thanks!
  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  They are the same thing. GE only made it either clear or with the grey coating on the inside, which was a type of shield. They used to cost around 5 dollars each and that was recently. Sometimes the market takes the fun out of buying these.


----------



## Wedge

I saw some people say that the RWA Isabellina Balanced pretty much was the second coming, at the NY meet.  I really can't judge an amps merit on like 10-20 minutes of listening at a sort of noisy meet.  I would want to sit at home let it soak in a bit.  Sometimes I think when people are trying to get me do a quick A-B stuff I miss some of the subtleties that really separate them from one another.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> There is a LOT of hype around the Cavalli LF, which may well be deserved - time will tell.  The one I heard at Can Jam sounded very good, but for me it wasn't the second coming that I read some people think it is.  But that was just a 10 minute audition at CanJam, so I don't pretend to be the last word on it.  No doubt though, circuit design has more impact on the sound than the tube choice will.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I saw some people say that the RWA Isabellina Balanced pretty much was the second coming, at the NY meet.  I really can't judge an amps merit on like 10-20 minutes of listening at a sort of noisy meet.  I would want to sit at home let it soak in a bit.  Sometimes I think when people are trying to get me do a quick A-B stuff I miss some of the subtleties that really separate them from one another.


 
  Absolutely agree.  I need a few weeks with an amp to really get the full measure of it.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





skylab said:


> There is a LOT of hype around the Cavalli LF, which may well be deserved - time will tell.  The one I heard at Can Jam sounded very good, but for me it wasn't the second coming that I read some people think it is.  But that was just a 10 minute audition at CanJam, so I don't pretend to be the last word on it.  No doubt though, circuit design has more impact on the sound than the tube choice will.


 


  x2 on the circuit design, in fact the quality of the transformers used in a tube amp has a bigger impact on the sound than the tubes.


----------



## Wedge

I don't believe the Lyr has a transformer in its signal path, so that would settle that.  I agree as well with the circuit design but its the component selections as whole that will also kind of guide the sound of the amp.  As I wouldn't be surprised in the headphone realm many of the same designs are implemented in slightly different ways with slightly different components.  
  
  Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> x2 on the circuit design, in fact the quality of the transformers used in a tube amp has a bigger impact on the sound than the tubes.


----------



## Ge03

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but as a total tube numpty I found these links helpful in figuring out the various tubes that can be used.
   
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2


----------



## jamato8

Yes, Joe's writings are almost legend. He went to a lot of work. He would get real cranky and finally left Audio Asylum for parts unknown.


----------



## MrScary

Electro Harmonix Tube Glove

You can pick these up at parts-express.com for 11.95 they are great for grabbing hot tubes when you are too lazy to wait until they cool down to roll.
Also for the Lyr I get them out in 1 second now that rocks.


 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=072-899


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mrscary said:


> Electro Harmonix Tube Glove
> 
> You can pick these up at parts-express.com for 11.95 they are great for grabbing hot tubes when you are too lazy to wait until they cool down to roll.
> Also for the Lyr I get them out in 1 second now that rocks.
> ...


 
  Have you, by chance, tried the Electro Harmonix Tubes for the Lyr as well?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Electro Harmonix Tube Glove
> 
> You can pick these up at parts-express.com for 11.95 they are great for grabbing hot tubes when you are too lazy to wait until they cool down to roll.
> Also for the Lyr I get them out in 1 second now that rocks.
> ...


 

 A tube condom? I guess better to be safe. . . . I think they forgot something.. .


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> A tube condom? I guess better to be safe. . . . I think they forgot something.. .




hahahahaha too funny


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Have you, by chance, tried the Electro Harmonix Tubes for the Lyr as well?
> 
> Cheers!
> ...




HK no I haven't I spent enought this month on tubes that are lost in sibera somewhere


----------



## DemonicLemming

Some Russian NOS 70s tubes, and a set of GE grays are on their way to me now.  Couldn't quite drop the money on the Mullard or Amperex tubes right now - maybe if I wind up preferring the Russian or GE tubes and can sell my Gold Lions I'll take a look at them again.


----------



## USAudio

Can anyone suggest some tubes that are quieter than the stock ECC88's but offer the same neutrality?  6922's?
  Thanks


----------



## Rope

You may have a two week lag, but I'm convinced the Russian 6N1P-VI OTK tubes are the most balanced and neutral I've yet heard, and for $2.00 ea., well, you can't go wrong.


----------



## Wedge

The JJs in my friends amp were quiet.
  
  Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Can anyone suggest some tubes that are quieter than the stock ECC88's but offer the same neutrality?  6922's?
> Thanks


----------



## MrScary

I just got some Russian OTK 2 6N23P's they were about 30.00 but they sound much better than the Schiit 6N1p's they are so far my favorite of everything I have rolled


----------



## jamato8

The 6N23p's are an excellent tube as are many 6N1P's but some 6N1P tubes are grainy and are not that musical. I have found this true with many of the later produced 6N1P's, that they can be grainy and not that musical.


----------



## jazzfan

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Electro Harmonix Tube Glove
> 
> You can pick these up at parts-express.com for 11.95 they are great for grabbing hot tubes when you are too lazy to wait until they cool down to roll.
> Also for the Lyr I get them out in 1 second now that rocks.
> ...


 

 For those interested in saving a few dollars, a box of 12 rubber fingertips can be found for less that $3 from any major office supply store.    Size 13 or 14 seem to work well on small tubes.  I haven't tried them on hot tubes as they might melt since they're only made of thin rubber.  Although not as versatile as the EH Tube Glove, if you work primarily with small tubes, they are a low cost alternative.


----------



## jamato8

Are those the finger tips with bumps or ridges?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





jazzfan said:


> For those interested in saving a few dollars, a box of 12 rubber fingertips can be found for less that $3 from any major office supply store.    Size 13 or 14 seem to work well on small tubes.  I haven't tried them on hot tubes as they might melt since they're only made of thin rubber.  Although not as versatile as the EH Tube Glove, if you work primarily with small tubes, they are a low cost alternative.


 
  Great idea, great suggestion!  Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

usaudio said:


> Can anyone suggest some tubes that are quieter than the stock ECC88's but offer the same neutrality?  6922's?
> Thanks




The stock tubes ARE quiet. The problem is, you're probably using headphones that the Lyr is too much for. That's when you get the hum and/or hiss. Paired with hard to drive headphones, the stock tubes are as dead silent as if I didn't have my headphone connected to anything.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Mad Lust Envy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 They are very quiet and I *personally* don't hear any hiss at all, even at full volume.  But that's just my ears.  Just curious if there ARE any tubes that might measure even quieter but offer similar performance for those folks that might be having hiss issues.


----------



## Wedge

They may just need to buy another pair, of even the same tubes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Everyone who's been using easier to drive headphones have stated they get hum/hiss with the Lyr. I've swapped to the Valhalla tubes and get the same amount of hum/hiss as the stock tubes. So, I'm pretty sure no matter what tubes you use, you will get hum/hiss with your sensitive headphones. Get another amp if its gonna bother you that much.


----------



## jamato8

Do you get the same amount of hum and hiss with no source attached to the amp?


----------



## MrScary

mad lust envy said:


> Everyone who's been using easier to drive headphones have stated they get hum/hiss with the Lyr. I've swapped to the Valhalla tubes and get the same amount of hum/hiss as the stock tubes. So, I'm pretty sure no matter what tubes you use, you will get hum/hiss with your sensitive headphones. Get another amp if its gonna bother you that much.





No not everyone I have ran my future sonic M8's and I get no hiss at all with any of my tubes


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> No takers? Alright, I guess I'll start.  As a caveat/disclaimer, I'm probably not the best with my jargon usage, and by no means do I have golden ears.  What I write here is purely subjective, and should be taken with a grain/bucket/dumptruck of salt.
> 
> *Tubes*: NOS Amperex USA 6922 gold-pin (orange print, PQ shield)
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Excellent choice in NOS tubes...you selected exactly what I would recommend as being the creme de la creme of 6922 valves.....the PQ gold pins are a very tough act to follow with the GP 7308 Amperex being the TOTL and likely no different in actual SQ to the 6922 variant. The 7308 is just the mil spec (lowest noise, heavier build version of the 6922). Pricing for these (Amperex Gold Pins) is getting somewhat ridiculous as genuine NOS stocks dwindle.
   
  A good lower cost alternative NOS tube is the mil spec Tesla E88CC GP's (yellow lettering)....made in the Eastern Block during the 70's, these tubes have a nice top to bottom evenness without any real obvious drawbacks...not as detailed nor as lovely as the Amperex tubes but good lower cost gold pins for those wanting a large slice of the Amperex voicing without the steep price tag.
   
  Peete.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


pricklely peete said:


> Excellent choice in NOS tubes...you selected exactly what I would recommend as being the creme de la creme of 6922 valves.....the PQ gold pins are a very tough act to follow with the GP 7308 Amperex being the TOTL and likely no different in actual SQ to the 6922 variant. The 7308 is just the mil spec (lowest noise, heavier build version of the 6922). Pricing for these (Amperex Gold Pins) is getting somewhat ridiculous as genuine NOS stocks dwindle.
> 
> A good lower cost alternative NOS tube is the mil spec Tesla E88CC GP's (yellow lettering)....made in the Eastern Block during the 70's, these tubes have a nice top to bottom evenness without any real obvious drawbacks...not as detailed nor as lovely as the Amperex tubes but good lower cost gold pins for those wanting a large slice of the Amperex voicing without the steep price tag.
> 
> Peete.


 

 Thanks for the input.  Have you had any experience with the Mullard 6922 CV2492 halo getter tubes from the 60s?  Wedge and LiqTenExp mentioned those are top notch tubes as well, although it's turning out to be a nightmare finding a pair for sale.


----------



## Wedge

They can be had at Tube Depot, but they are really expensive.  When I gave them to LiqTenExp, I decided not to bother looking for another pair and bought regular no CV Mullards instead.
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Thanks for the input.  Have you had any experience with the Mullard 6922 CV2492 halo getter tubes from the 60s?  Wedge and LiqTenExp mentioned those are top notch tubes as well, although it's turning out to be a nightmare finding a pair for sale.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


liqtenexp said:


> Travel light always, right? (NFB-12, DAC_I, LYR, LD MKIII, cables, tubes)


 

 By the way, what type of case is this? Pelican?  I'm looking for a similar one-box solution for all of my gear, so if you could hook me up with the details of what the type, model and size of this case are, I'd be much obliged.


----------



## MrScary

pricklely peete said:


> Excellent choice in NOS tubes...you selected exactly what I would recommend as being the creme de la creme of 6922 valves.....the PQ gold pins are a very tough act to follow with the GP 7308 Amperex being the TOTL and likely no different in actual SQ to the 6922 variant. The 7308 is just the mil spec (lowest noise, heavier build version of the 6922). Pricing for these (Amperex Gold Pins) is getting somewhat ridiculous as genuine NOS stocks dwindle.
> 
> A good lower cost alternative NOS tube is the mil spec Tesla E88CC GP's (yellow lettering)....made in the Eastern Block during the 70's, these tubes have a nice top to bottom evenness without any real obvious drawbacks...not as detailed nor as lovely as the Amperex tubes but good lower cost gold pins for those wanting a large slice of the Amperex voicing without the steep price tag.
> 
> Peete.





Now you guys got me buying more tubes I just bought some vintage AMPEREX 6922 PQ


----------



## DemonicLemming

This thread is really, really killing my wallet...set of Amperex PQ gold-pins on their way to me now, too.
   
  More than likely wind up reselling some of the tubes once I find a set I like, if anyone is interested in rolling anything.


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> This thread is really, really killing my wallet...set of Amperex PQ gold-pins on their way to me now, too.
> 
> More than likely wind up reselling some of the tubes once I find a set I like, if anyone is interested in rolling anything.




Same here I have the Gold Lions to sell a set of OTK Russian 6N1p's some GE grey hahaha I hope I like these Amperex


----------



## jamato8

Those tubes say made in the US but they are most likely made in Holland, which is good. 
   
  So MrScary, you are selling the GE grey glass? What type is the 6N1P?


----------



## Rope

MrScary, Scary person, or McScary,?  Which vendor did you purchase your 6N23P's from?


----------



## LiqTenExp

Sorry, I have no clue, it has no markings on it.  It was going in the garbage and I grabbed it.  I used it for my paintball markers for years.  Now it has a new purpose in life.
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> By the way, what type of case is this? Pelican?  I'm looking for a similar one-box solution for all of my gear, so if you could hook me up with the details of what the type, model and size of this case are, I'd be much obliged.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Everyone who's been using easier to drive headphones have stated they get hum/hiss with the Lyr. I've swapped to the Valhalla tubes and get the same amount of hum/hiss as the stock tubes. So, I'm pretty sure no matter what tubes you use, you will get hum/hiss with your sensitive headphones. Get another amp if its gonna bother you that much.


 

 This hum and noise is a function of the gain of the amp.  If anyone insists upon using higher sensitivity earphones with a higher gain amp, they should use a voltage divider network to pad down the output of the amp to match the sensitivity of the 'phones.  Doing so will bring down the noise floor to where it needs to be.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> MrScary, Scary person, or McScary,?  Which vendor did you purchase your 6N23P's from?




I got them off of ebay seller

http://cgi.ebay.com/matched-vintage-Pair-6922-6N23P-EV-CCCP-military-qual-/200558846855?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2eb23d2387
I think I offered him 35.00 and it auto accepted took about a week to get here fast shipment 

Im running the 6N23P's now my favorite tube so far we will see how the amperex's do


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Those tubes say made in the US but they are most likely made in Holland, which is good.
> 
> So MrScary, you are selling the GE grey glass? What type is the 6N1P?




Yeah Im selling the GE greys and the Gold lions and the OTK Russian 6N1p's they came in boxes with rockets on them hahah that's all I know
they sound ok but not as good as the 6N23P.. If anyone is interested PM me I am going to almost give them away and take the hit to the wallet


----------



## jamato8

Yes, tubes respond differently in different circuits due to the operating points that are better for one tube over another. The 6N1P like to be run hard and sound best that way, at higher operating points than what a 6N23P or 6922's in general could run at. I have an analog section I made for my dac that uses two tubes on the output but I can run many different types as I can dial in the operating points and get the best out of each tube type. The 6N23P was one of my favorites along with the Siemens 6922 and a Russian 6DJ8 Amperex. The 6N1P run at higher voltages also sounds very fine


----------



## MacedonianHero

mrscary said:


> jamato8 said:
> 
> 
> > Those tubes say made in the US but they are most likely made in Holland, which is good.
> ...




And thanks for the great deal on the Gold Lions. I am a big fan of these tubes...nice to have a second "back up" pair.


----------



## DemonicLemming

I don't think it's a Pelican, but for a case that size made by Pelican, you're going to pay a pretty decent amount; a 1690, roughly the size as what's shown, is about $350.  Bombproof, but expensive.
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> By the way, what type of case is this? Pelican?  I'm looking for a similar one-box solution for all of my gear, so if you could hook me up with the details of what the type, model and size of this case are, I'd be much obliged.


----------



## sferic

I'm really happy with the Gold Lions as an upgrade, with both my LCD-2's and PS-1's. They provided a definite upgrade from the stock tubes, which are pretty darn good. But the GLs did bring the detail, to both treble and bass. Wake me up when some tube or the other makes an earth-shattering difference. 
   
  There is hum & hiss in some recordings that I don't hear with the LCD-2's but do with the Grados, but it's definitely in the recordings, not the signal chain. So it's not an amp issue. I do have ample experience in the studio so I can pretty readily recognize where noise is coming from. I've found the Lyr to be a revelation with everything I've plugged in, which consists of Denon D5000's, PS1000's, and LCD-2's. 
   
  Younger ears might find the Grados too intense in the high-end, I get that, but for me it's like putting on the reading glasses. And the LCD-2's have this "unity" of beautiful, warm, sound. I love them both equally but differently as go-to phones. And the Denons are just rocking good fun when you need a closed phone and want to hear electronica. I guess I'm polygamous.
   
  Between these 3 phones and this amp at this stage, I'm not really tempted to try any other mods. My post count has gone down dramatically - maybe I'm getting fat & happy in my married life to this equipment, but thank Head-Fi for showing me the way


----------



## MrScary

macedonianhero said:


> mrscary said:
> 
> 
> > jamato8 said:
> ...




Welcome my friend


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Thank you!


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


demoniclemming said:


> I don't think it's a Pelican, but for a case that size made by Pelican, you're going to pay a pretty decent amount; a 1690, roughly the size as what's shown, is about $350.  Bombproof, but expensive.


 

 Thanks for the info.  They make a solid case, but that's a pretty brutal price.


----------



## Wedge

Jamato, didn't someone buy the rights to Amperex name?  I know most real Amperex tubes are made in Holland, but why would they get labeled made in the US if they really made in Holland.
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Those tubes say made in the US but they are most likely made in Holland, which is good.
> 
> So MrScary, you are selling the GE grey glass? What type is the 6N1P?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Jamato, didn't someone buy the rights to Amperex name?  I know most real Amperex tubes are made in Holland, but why would they get labeled made in the US if they really made in Holland.


 


  Richardson bought Amperex many years ago.


----------



## Kremer930

Just ordered some 6N1P -EV and 6N1P-VI.  See what these sound like. 
   
  And thanks to Scary I have also put in an offer on the 23's.


----------



## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> Just ordered some 6N1P -EV and 6N1P-VI.  See what these sound like.
> 
> And thanks to Scary I have also put in an offer on the 23's.




YOu will love the 23's


----------



## blankdisc

I just ordered some 23P last night as well. Thanks to MrScary for being so nice to answer a lot of my question.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Richardson bought Amperex many years ago.


 

 I'm not sure that's true.  Richardson did buy quite a few tube companies, but I am pretty sure Amperex was not one of them.  They did at one point acquire Philips power tube line, so perhaps that is what you meant, although I am not aware that this meant they got the Amperex Brand from Philips.  Richardson did acquire tube lines or some assets from Tung-Sol, Cetron, National. RCA, Zaerix, and RCA, during what was essentially the final consolidation of the US vacuum tube industry in the 1980's (although they acquired Cetron in 1981, who had previously acquired Tung-Sol, in 1975).
   
  Amperex was a US company and made tubes in the USA.  It was then purchased by Philips, which is a Dutch company (and who made many excellent tubes).  Amperex tubes were made in Holland, essentially by Philips, under the Amperex name.  At some point Philips stopped making Amperex branded tubes, and then eventually stopped making tubes altogether, although Philips made tubes much longer than many companies - I have quite a few Philips tubes that were made in the late 1980's.


----------



## Wedge

Thanks for the clarification Rob.


----------



## achl354

so how do the 23's sound exactly?


----------



## jamato8

Richardson bought the Amperex name as well but sadly not the desire to produce or have produced the same quality as the 1950's and 1960's and part of the 70's. It doesn't appear we will ever see the tubes that were made. I thought from many reports that the Gold Lion would do it but it appears a number of people here aren't that happy with them. There just isn't the market. When I look at images of the large tube factories it makes me feel ill. You can live in the past but there is just something about tubes I enjoy and admire. I don't think I will ever feel the same about the little silicon chips. :^)


----------



## MrScary

achl354 said:


> so how do the 23's sound exactly?




The 23's sound really good the sound alot like the 6N1P's but without the gritty sound. Its like a smooth 6N1P at least I should say new 6N1P's the Bass is strong the mids are melodic and the highs are not recessed in better words
they are a better sounding 6N1p. I just put in a bid for some 60's 23's to gauge the difference with the ones I'm running now. And Im waiting on my Amperex's


----------



## TruBrew

I ordereed some 6N1P-EV's a few days ago. They will be my first attempt at tube rolling. I am hoping they sound good. I am thinking about also picking up the 6N23P, but I have spent too much money over the last few months.


----------



## MrScary

trubrew said:


> I ordereed some 6N1P-EV's a few days ago. They will be my first attempt at tube rolling. I am hoping they sound good. I am thinking about also picking up the 6N23P, but I have spent too much money over the last few months.




Should have gotten the 6N23P's they sound better I have 3 sets of ;6N1P-EV and they all have a gritty sound sorry to say but the 6N1p's are a step above the stock Lyr tubes thats for sure


----------



## TruBrew

I am looking around for some 23's. I may end up buying some. I can afford them; they aren't expensive but I do have a few others things I have to buy. I only have a few more months of income until I quit when school starts. So I need to make sure I can afford the things I really need (audio wise) along with having enough left over to cover my bills wile I am not working. 
   
   
  Edit:  If the  23's end up being the best available/affordable tube for the Lyr, maybe we should set up a group buy on them. Whoever organized the buy would have to match up all the tubes in pairs, so it may be a hassle, but it is an idea.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Richardson bought the Amperex name as well. It doesn't appear we will ever see the tubes that were made. I thought from many reports that the Gold Lion would do it but it appears a number of people here aren't that happy with them. There just isn't the market.


 

 Interesting - I wasn't aware of that.  Did they buy it from Philips when they bought the Philips power tube lines?


----------



## MrScary

trubrew said:


> I am looking around for some 23's. I may end up buying some. I can afford them; they aren't expensive but I do have a few others things I have to buy. I only have a few more months of income until I quit when school starts. So I need to make sure I can afford the things I really need (audio wise) along with having enough left over to cover my bills wile I am not working.
> 
> 
> Edit:  If the  23's end up being the best available/affordable tube for the Lyr, maybe we should set up a group buy on them. Whoever organized the buy would have to match up all the tubes in pairs, so it may be a hassle, but it is an idea.





I think we still have a few more to go through to find out which one is the "best" or what the consensus is the Mullards,Apmperx and a few others


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I am looking around for some 23's. I may end up buying some. I can afford them; they aren't expensive but I do have a few others things I have to buy. I only have a few more months of income until I quit when school starts. So I need to make sure I can afford the things I really need (audio wise) along with having enough left over to cover my bills wile I am not working.
> 
> 
> Edit:  If the  23's end up being the best available/affordable tube for the Lyr, maybe we should set up a group buy on them. Whoever organized the buy would have to match up all the tubes in pairs, so it may be a hassle, but it is an idea.


 

http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=33&products_id=243&osCsid=f7f52cfbbc664028c8423e28fa22864d


----------



## TruBrew

The same site has this set for more. can someone explain the extra process and give an opinion on if the increase cost is merited.
   
  http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=262&osCsid=f7f52cfbbc664028c8423e28fa22864d


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> The same site has this set for more. can someone explain the extra process and give an opinion on if the increase cost is merited.
> 
> http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=262&osCsid=f7f52cfbbc664028c8423e28fa22864d


 

 I personally don't believe in audio voodoo, and IMO cryogenics is just that.  How does freezing something make it perform better?  I purchased the less expensive matched pair.
   
  When I get really cold and then begin to thaw, I don't perform with a Schiit.


----------



## TruBrew

Thanks, I will most likely buy a pair of these next week.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





rope said:


> I personally don't believe in audio voodoo, and IMO cryogenics is just that.  How does freezing something make it perform better?  I purchased the less expensive matched pair.
> 
> When I get really cold and then begin to thaw, I don't perform with a Schiit.


 

 The process realigns the crystalline structure of the metals....whether that makes for a better result is debatable ....think of it like heat treating steel (to bring it back to optimum strength after manipulation weakens it) or face hardening armor...it's a similar concept except cold temps ( -250C liquid nitrogen) are used for this treatment process. I have no opinion either way as to the effectiveness of the cryo process producing better sonic results ..FWIW.
   
   
  Peete


----------



## MrScary

pricklely peete said:


> The process realigns the crystalline structure of the metals....whether that makes for a better result is debatable ....think of it like heat treating steel (to bring it back to optimum strength after manipulation weakens it) or face hardening armor...it's a similar concept except cold temps ( -250C liquid nitrogen) are used for this treatment process. I have no opinion either way as to the effectiveness of the cryo process producing better sonic results ..FWIW.
> 
> 
> Peete




I just picked up another pair of 60's 6N23's from Russia for 32.00 I figure Russia is a frozen tundra and they have already been cryo treated hahahah
I'm curious to see how the older 23's sound compared to the new ones..


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:



mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks a lot MrScary, now I went and ordered two sets of 6N23 tubes; one from Cryo and one from eBay...all I needed was more tubes to try.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  But you convinced me to give them a shot.
   
  Hope they work out...I can't afford any more...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Thanks a lot MrScary, now I went and ordered two sets of 6N23 tubes; one from Cryo and one from eBay...all I needed was more tubes to try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




They will take a 100 or so hours to break in but they sound good out of the box..


----------



## WarriorAnt

This post has nothing to do with the Lyr but all the posts on russian tubes reminded me of all the tube technology they still use in their military facilities and thought it might be of interest in an off hand way.   I can just imagine the Russian soldiers plugging in a pair of headphones into one the the radar installments and grooving to a little bit of Balalaika music.
   
  "And while American military technology adopted solid-state semiconductor electronics decades ago, the Russian radar still operates using vacuum tubes"
   
  " Despite its reliance on outdated, vacuum tube technology, the system is extremely capable as an early warning radar scanning the skies over the Middle East."
   
  http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/02/world/europe/02iht-missile.4.8167475.html


----------



## jamato8

Another reason is that the pulse form a nuclear explosion will knock out the solid state stuff real fast but tubes keep on going, which one reason they also kept them in the planes for a long time.


----------



## USAudio

Quote:


warriorant said:


> This post has nothing to do with the Lyr but all the posts on russian tubes reminded me of all the tube technology they still use in their military facilities and thought it might be of interest in an off hand way.  ...


 In support of this it's interesting to note that many of the designers of high-end tube gear are former Russian citizens such as Lamm and BAT, there are likely others.


----------



## jamato8

Well they know their tubes. The guy I used to buy some USSR tubes from that traveled to the USSR every year to visit his father and pick up a few tubes knew the different designs because he was an engineer that worked on tube equipment. I got a few 1965 black plate 6N1P's from his and really liked them, more than the later structurally different grey plate. He said there was a good reason for that. The ones I had were designed for analog circuits and the later ones for digital circuitry. I found it interesting. He said most won't talk about it but he didn't care any longer.


----------



## wuwhere

Radar installations are like beacons of light. Once they are turned on their locations are pin pointed and become sitting ducks. It was the Russians who built Iraq's air defense.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I would love to see one of those installations and see all those tubes in action.


----------



## talk2me

I have to thank this thread. I use to have a Klimo preamp about 10 years ago with 6922's. I have about 6 Telefunken and some Bugle Boys in a box in storage. Did not know they went up in price. I will try them if i get the Lyr.


----------



## jamato8

Tubes always seem to go up if they are good NOS. I have a bunch of EL84's and had no idea how much they went up. I have some nice 1950's Mullards and I don't even see those for sale as well as some nice Valvo and others.


----------



## achl354

which ones did u get from cryoset? they seem to have two types listed (ones with yellow and red box)

  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Thanks a lot MrScary, now I went and ordered two sets of 6N23 tubes; one from Cryo and one from eBay...all I needed was more tubes to try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





achl354 said:


> which ones did u get from cryoset? they seem to have two types listed (ones with yellow and red box)


 

http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=33&products_id=267&osCsid=f7f52cfbbc664028c8423e28fa22864d


----------



## mangler

I just got in the 6N1P tubes from Schiit. I feel like I _may _have lost some bottom end punch with these tubes (compared to stock tubes), but I definitely feel the soundstage widened and everything is a bit more airy, so I think it was worth the trade-off, as the music now sounds much richer and relaxed and not so in-your-face (that's not to say the response is any slower; it just feels more natural). At $20 a pair these things are a steal, and certainly worth a try.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





achl354 said:


> which ones did u get from cryoset? they seem to have two types listed (ones with yellow and red box)


 
  I got the cheaper ones...the single treatment cryo for $49.99.  I didn't feel I needed to pay $20 more for multiple treatments.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Electro Harmonix Tube Glove
> 
> You can pick these up at parts-express.com for 11.95 they are great for grabbing hot tubes when you are too lazy to wait until they cool down to roll.
> Also for the Lyr I get them out in 1 second now that rocks.
> ...


 


  Also found on Amazon with $5.49 shipping.
   
  Almost forgot the link:
  http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1304361555&sr=8-1


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That saved you a bunch of bucks!


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> That saved you a bunch of bucks!




hahahahaha


----------



## MrScary

mangler said:


> I just got in the 6N1P tubes from Schiit. I feel like I _may _have lost some bottom end punch with these tubes (compared to stock tubes), but I definitely feel the soundstage widened and everything is a bit more airy, so I think it was worth the trade-off, as the music now sounds much richer and relaxed and not so in-your-face (that's not to say the response is any slower; it just feels more natural). At $20 a pair these things are a steal, and certainly worth a try.




Yeah those (6N1P's) sound like Schiit grainy and nasty but they are better than the stock tubes. I got some 70's 6N1p's today in the mail they sound much better much smoother but they are still not a 23..


----------



## jamato8

Yes, late 6N1P's don't sound very good in audiophile terms, IMO but early ones do, like from the 60's. The 6N23P is a very good tube and for the price can't be beat.


----------



## achl354

i was gonna get the very same ones as you until i decided to just go for the 23's from a russian tube store, 1970's batch for $38 shipped, takes a week or so longer to get them but aint in rush anyway

  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I got the cheaper ones...the single treatment cryo for $49.99.  I didn't feel I needed to pay $20 more for multiple treatments.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:



achl354 said:


> i was gonna get the very same ones as you until i decided to just go for the 23's from a russian tube store, 1970's batch for $38 shipped, takes a week or so longer to get them but aint in rush anyway


 
  Actually, I got a set of those too off ebay...for comparison.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

Opinions requested.
   
  We are all trying out different combos of tubes which can be a lot of fun but also can end up being a lot of money.  So the dilemma is should we just buy the best sounding tube now or 3-4 tube sets equal to the price of one superior tube set.  I'm not too deep yet into tube costs.  Superiority is subjective but from everything I've read the Amperex 6922 PQ USA gold pin white label is sort of king in the $200 price range.  I guess there's a harder to find pinched version too.  Maybe I'm wrong too about the PQ being king of the 6922s, I'm new to tube rolling.
   
  I have the Gold Lions, Lyr 6N1P stock tubes, Lyr E88C stock tubes.  I like the Gold Lions the best.  They play well with the HE-4 and my CD player.  The Gold Lions have a more fuller sound in my system.  W4S DAC-2 on the way.  *I was thinking of trying the Amperex 6922 PQ USA white label (http://tubedepot.com/nos-6922-usa-u.html) and being done with buying tubes for a while.  *However, for the past week I've hesitated on pulling the trigger on $190 worth of tubes.   I have no doubt this would be my last tube purchase for a while.  There's a more expensive version of the PQ tubes costing ~$400 (http://tubedepot.com/nos-6922-amp-usa.html) but that's not on my radar.
    
  Has anyone compared Gold Lions and Amperex 6922 PQ in their own systems?  Is the 6922 PQ worth twice the price for their enjoyment?
   
  Would most people like to have fun trying out other tubes just to hear other sound signatures rather than get locked into one tube?  
   
  Looking forward to your opinions.  Many of us newbies are just forming tube rolling philosophies.


----------



## DemonicLemming

I have some Amperex 6922s coming in, US-made orange label PQ tubes.  I'm not up enough on tube info to know the difference in orange vs white labels.  I have Gold Lions in the amp right now, with about 20 hours on then, and also have a set of RCA smoked glass 6DJ8 tubes and a set of Russian 1970s 6N1P tubes in the mail.
   
  I'm not too great at reviews, but I can try and throw a few initial comments together once the tubes come in.  The Gold Lions aren't bad right now, but with LCD-2s, I just feel a bit distant and removed from the music.
   
  I can honestly say I'd have a hard time paying $200 for a set of tubes in a $450 amp; something just a bit galling about spending half the price of the amp on a single set of tubes.  More than likely, if any of the tubes coming in best the Gold Lions, they'll be in the for sale forum.
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Opinions requested.
> 
> We are all trying out different combos of tubes which can be a lot of fun but also can end up being a lot of money.  So the dilemma is should we just buy the best sounding tube now or 3-4 tube sets equal to the price of one superior tube set.  I'm not too deep yet into tube costs.  Superiority is subjective but from everything I've read the Amperex 6922 PQ USA gold pin white label is sort of king in the $200 price range.  I guess there's a harder to find pinched version too.  Maybe I'm wrong too about the PQ being king of the 6922s, I'm new to tube rolling.
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> I have some Amperex 6922s coming in, US-made orange label PQ tubes.  I'm not up enough on tube info to know the difference in orange vs white labels.  I have Gold Lions in the amp right now, with about 20 hours on then, and also have a set of RCA smoked glass 6DJ8 tubes and a set of Russian 1970s 6N1P tubes in the mail.
> 
> I'm not too great at reviews, but I can try and throw a few initial comments together once the tubes come in.  The Gold Lions aren't bad right now, but with LCD-2s, I just feel a bit distant and removed from the music.
> 
> I can honestly say I'd have a hard time paying $200 for a set of tubes in a $450 amp; something just a bit galling about spending half the price of the amp on a single set of tubes.  More than likely, if any of the tubes coming in best the Gold Lions, they'll be in the for sale forum.




Ohhh the GE's will best the Gold Lions for sure now the 6N1p's are debatable unless you got some 60's -70's tubes they will be grainy and nasty just like the Schiit 6N1P's I just sold my Gold Lions getting rid of them made my tube box smaller hahaha
I would consider getting some 6N23P's


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> demoniclemming said:
> 
> 
> > I have some Amperex 6922s coming in, US-made orange label PQ tubes.  I'm not up enough on tube info to know the difference in orange vs white labels.  I have Gold Lions in the amp right now, with about 20 hours on then, and also have a set of RCA smoked glass 6DJ8 tubes and a set of Russian 1970s 6N1P tubes in the mail.
> ...




I also have some Amperex tubes coming in so it will be interesting. Actually IM listening to the Lyr with the GE's in it right now trying to battle within myself which is better the 23's or the GE's they are very similar sounding I think the 6N23P's are brighter


----------



## WNBC

Right on Demonic, I hadn't thought about that perspective of tubes costing 50% to 100% the cost of the Lyr.  That's something to consider.  Or is the Lyr is underpriced .  
   
  Most of what I've read comes from posts here and Joe's tube lore http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html
   
  Some info about label colors and dating with the white labels being older tube stocks and better sounding in the author's opinion.


----------



## WNBC

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  I'm already feeling better not pulling the trigger on some expensive tubes.  I'll wait for your opinions on the Amperex vs 6N23P before picking up something new.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> I'm already feeling better not pulling the trigger on some expensive tubes.  I'll wait for your opinions on the Amperex vs 6N23P before picking up something new.




Yeah I would pick up some 23's they are awfully good sounding and they are cheap on ebay just have to wait for them from Russia or some other frozen tundra place. But besides that I would wait on some kind of consensus of what sounds best in the Lyr or at best enough opinions on a certain set of tubes. I picked up the Amperex's for 80.00 off of ebay so given the expense I have already spend now close to 250.00 on tubes and even more hahaha for my DAC which has a tube output


----------



## DemonicLemming

I do think the Lyr is underpriced, but I'm just glad it doesn't use the 300B tubes..."normal" average-quality NOS tubes that go for $300 a piece?  Ouch.
   
  The only white-label Amperex tubes I could find on ebay were either Bugle Boys (which I've read aren't that great) or Holland-made tubes, rather than US-made.  I'm almost afraid to keep looking harder on the off chance that I'll actually find a set of the white label, gold pin, US-made Amperex tubes, and buy them.
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Right on Demonic, I hadn't thought about that perspective of tubes costing 50% to 100% the cost of the Lyr.  That's something to consider.  Or is the Lyr is underpriced .
> 
> Most of what I've read comes from posts here and Joe's tube lore http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html
> 
> Some info about label colors and dating with the white labels being older tube stocks and better sounding in the author's opinion.


 
   
  The 6N1P is supposed to be '70s Voshkod stock, so we'll see.  I may grab a pair of 23s next month...I've about spent my entire disposable budget for this month on just tubes.  Since my NFB-3 came in, I'm 98% happy with how everything sounds now.  Hopefully rolling a few sets of tubes gets me the rest of the way.
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jamato8

I don't think it underpriced, too many amps are overpriced.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I don't think it underpriced, too many amps are overpriced.




I agree with that so many amps are way way over priced


----------



## Kremer930

Hard to say that the Lyr is not under priced. It offers such great value that IMO it resets the value equation for high end headphone audio. 

With regards to spending a fortune on tubes... I would personally just get some 6N1Ps or the russian 23's and then put your cash aside for the new Schiit amp referred to at the end of the 6 moon Lyr review. It will be a game changer from what I have heard. I have been sworn to secrecy on the details but I am sure that Jason will throw in some enticing bits of info as the product gets closer to ore-order. 

The Lyr is the perfect amp to enjoy in the interim to make the wait that much easier.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Welp, bad news on the Amperex tubes...came in today, and one has an extremely bad crackle/hum to it.  I'm not a tube doctor, but I'm guessing it's bad.  Ug.  Anyone want a single PQ orange US 6922?


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> Welp, bad news on the Amperex tubes...came in today, and one has an extremely bad crackle/hum to it.  I'm not a tube doctor, but I'm guessing it's bad.  Ug.  Anyone want a single PQ orange US 6922?




Ohh dude that sucks hope mine dont come in that way


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> Welp, bad news on the Amperex tubes...came in today, and one has an extremely bad crackle/hum to it.  I'm not a tube doctor, but I'm guessing it's bad.  Ug.  Anyone want a single PQ orange US 6922?


 

 Well testing doesn't always test for noise and most of the time doesn't. About the only way to do that is in a circuit, like you have done. I have some special phones that go with a couple of my tube testers (Hickok and military) but it doesn't really work all that well. So were the tubes at least advertised as tested?


----------



## Rope

Here's a few shots of the 6N23P's ordered Saturday from Cryoset (Ron Shelton).  Haven't rolled them in, but when I get a chance, I'll give a shout out of the results.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Yeah, they were advertised as tested and matched (80/85 as the test number).
   
  Ah well.  Buying decades-old NOS stuff will eventually wind up in something bad.  Too bad I don't have anything that only needs one tube, heh.
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Well testing doesn't always test for noise and most of the time doesn't. About the only way to do that is in a circuit, like you have done. I have some special phones that go with a couple of my tube testers (Hickok and military) but it doesn't really work all that well. So were the tubes at least advertised as tested?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> Yeah, they were advertised as tested and matched (80/85 as the test number).
> 
> Ah well.  Buying decades-old NOS stuff will eventually wind up in something bad.  Too bad I don't have anything that only needs one tube, heh.


 
  Well they should come with some type of warranty as far as working correctly. Since one is bad they should take it back and replace it or give you back your money for that tube.


----------



## Wedge

Some tubes take a few to settle out too though.  I'm not familiar with the Amperex PQ but some tubes can use a settling in period.


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> Yeah, they were advertised as tested and matched (80/85 as the test number).
> 
> Ah well.  Buying decades-old NOS stuff will eventually wind up in something bad.  Too bad I don't have anything that only needs one tube, heh.




Get your money back man


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Some tubes take a few to settle out too though.  I'm not familiar with the Amperex PQ but some tubes can use a settling in period.


 
  I know what you are saying but generally the small signal tubes that are noisy seem to stay that way. It might be worth it though to let it burn in for a while. Normally it is more of a rushing sound or one that goes up and down in volume due to a slightly gassy tube, which can be corrected sometimes by letting the tube heat up and allowing the getter to take up the gas molecules. I have tubes from the late 1920's and the 1930 that often need this, understandably since they are often in a large glass envelope rather than the nice small one like on the 9 pin  tubes.


----------



## unmesh

I see a lot of guys trying different 6922's in this amp. Have you considered 6dj8's and ecc88's? Very nice sounding tubes of these types can be gotten without breaking the bank.
  6922's have the rep of being quiet, but there's more to it than quiet. If you're unfamiliar with Joe's Tube Lore, you might have a look;  same with Brent Jessee's site.  There also used to be a cached page from Chimera Labs where the author reviews most of the vintage types.  One thing you can be sure of...it never ends.


----------



## MrScary

unmesh said:


> I see a lot of guys trying different 6922's in this amp. Have you considered 6dj8's and ecc88's? Very nice sounding tubes of these types can be gotten without breaking the bank.
> 6922's have the rep of being quiet, but there's more to it than quiet. If you're unfamiliar with Joe's Tube Lore, you might have a look;  same with Brent Jessee's site.  There also used to be a cached page from Chimera Labs where the author reviews most of the vintage types.  One thing you can be sure of...it never ends.




Right now everyone is trying the 6N23P's I think everyone has tried the GE's the Ameperex's the Russian 6N1p's which sound nasty unless they are 60's early 70's stuff everyone is not just trying 6922's look back in the thread a bit


----------



## Wedge

Quote:


jamato8 said:


> I know what you are saying but generally the small signal tubes that are noisy seem to stay that way. It might be worth it though to let it burn in for a while. Normally it is more of a rushing sound or one that goes up and down in volume due to a slightly gassy tube, which can be corrected sometimes by letting the tube heat up and allowing the getter to take up the gas molecules. I have tubes from the late 1920's and the 1930 that often need this, understandably since they are often in a large glass envelope rather than the nice small one like on the 9 pin  tubes.


 

 I know what you are saying to, but I noticed sometime people get nutty over stuff right away, with Tubes sometimes it take 10-20 hours to let things settle out.  For the most part 9 pin tubes generally don't get gassy.  I also noticed a lot of people who don't know tubes all that much are often playing with tubes, so to be on the safe side I just thought I'd say.

  Quote: 





unmesh said:


> I see a lot of guys trying different 6922's in this amp. Have you considered 6dj8's and ecc88's? Very nice sounding tubes of these types can be gotten without breaking the bank.
> 6922's have the rep of being quiet, but there's more to it than quiet. If you're unfamiliar with Joe's Tube Lore, you might have a look;  same with Brent Jessee's site.  There also used to be a cached page from Chimera Labs where the author reviews most of the vintage types.  One thing you can be sure of...it never ends.


 

 Tried 2 different ECC88s, my faves are still CV2492.


----------



## unmesh

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Ahhhh..
  But the thread is long, and life is short and I have tubes to roll in my recently acquired Earmax pro before I sleep.
  Tempus fuggit !


----------



## DemonicLemming

This is more like a "cellophane being crumpled" sound while the tube is heating up, then is settles down to a rather loud hum that's evident even with music playing at normal levels.  I know some tubes can be a little noisy as they're warming up, but I let the amp run for about three hours and the noise was still there, and switching tube sockets, the sound followed to that channel.
   
  I did email to see if they'd be able to do a replacement, but (since I'm still very much a tube noob) I don't know how possible that is due to the nature of matching tubes, etc, since it's just one bad, rather than them both being shot.
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I know what you are saying but generally the small signal tubes that are noisy seem to stay that way. It might be worth it though to let it burn in for a while. Normally it is more of a rushing sound or one that goes up and down in volume due to a slightly gassy tube, which can be corrected sometimes by letting the tube heat up and allowing the getter to take up the gas molecules. I have tubes from the late 1920's and the 1930 that often need this, understandably since they are often in a large glass envelope rather than the nice small one like on the 9 pin  tubes.


----------



## DemonicLemming

I've got some GE smoked glass and some '70s Russian 6N1P tubes coming in, on top of the Gold Lions I bought before I got the amp, and the faulty Amperex tubes.  May pick up some ECC88 Brimar tubes, too.  _Yay for Paypal balance, just picked up a set of the Brimar tubes_.  Haven't seen anything said about them yet, but I really liked how my Brimar EF92s sounded in my Little Dot.
   
  One thing that sucks about not knowing a whole lot about tubes - it's hard to figure out what is compatible with what, heh.
  
  Quote: 





unmesh said:


> Ahhhh..
> But the thread is long, and life is short and I have tubes to roll in my recently acquired Earmax pro before I sleep.
> Tempus fuggit !


----------



## Wedge

To be honest these days when you buy tubes, they probably aren't really matched in the same sense as it was when tubes used to be sold as factory matched pairs.  I don't believe the Lyr really pushes these tubes to the limits, you can probably get a way with "non matched" as long as they are the same tubes.  This is the nature of NOS, sometimes you win some and sometimes you lose some.  I generally let my tubes run in 20 hours non consecutively before I call it quits.
  
  Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> This is more like a "cellophane being crumpled" sound while the tube is heating up, then is settles down to a rather loud hum that's evident even with music playing at normal levels.  I know some tubes can be a little noisy as they're warming up, but I let the amp run for about three hours and the noise was still there, and switching tube sockets, the sound followed to that channel.
> 
> I did email to see if they'd be able to do a replacement, but (since I'm still very much a tube noob) I don't know how possible that is due to the nature of matching tubes, etc, since it's just one bad, rather than them both being shot.


----------



## jamato8

It takes time and that is money to really match tubes and tube manufactures of old would have large jigs that would allow many tubes to run at the same time and then you could match up tubes with the correct instruments. Now days that just isn't done, at least rarely anyway. There are a few that will burn the tube in, measure and then burn in again and measure as a tube will often drift some but that of course, increases the price of the pair and it is hard to get closely match halves to begin with. I agree with Wedge, for the most part, tubes that are tested and reputable, should be fine. Even matched tubes are going to drift some so while you may be spot on at first, that can and often does, change but being close is normally totally adequate.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Bit of good news to offset things; the seller is sending out another Amperex tube tomorrow for me to use.  Woohoo for responsible sellers.  Now, I really need to look into how to store these bloody tubes.  My desk is not a safe place for delicate glass bits...
   
  For general knowledge, if a tube set is advertised as "matched", what's the important information to look for?  Assuming that most people aren't sticking to a metrology schedule to keep their tube testers in calibration, is there anything really useful that can be gleaned from the average-quality tester numbers?


----------



## Rope

Considering the implimentation of auto-bias circuts in many of todays amplifiers, shouldn't small differentials in matched pair tubes be a mute point?  I would imagine the cost of a true matched pair would be astronomical, given the time the tubes need for the cathode to cease emitting electrons, and the additional testing to find a pair of tubes that are truly matched.
   
  As it relates to NOS tubes in general, you pays your monies, and you takes your chances.  Who knows what happens to a tube that's been sitting on some self in some warehouse for 50+ years?


----------



## jamato8

No, just because a tube is old if it is advertised as good then it should be good. Small signal tubes rarely had an adjustment for bias, they were normally, though not always, cathode bias. But what you are looking for is balanced sections of the same tube for the parameters set forth by some preamps and headphone amps. For some it matters, depending upon the circuit and others it doesn't. 
   
  There is no reason to take a chance. I have tubes that are 80 years old and still fine. If I sold them as good and they weren't there is no reason for the buyer to take the hit.


----------



## Rope

jamato8 -
   
  I agree, the purchaser should never take a hit when purchasing NOS tubes, however, if the purchaser is not familiar with the seller's practices, buyer beware.  If you intend to purchase NOS tubes, do your homework, know what you're buying, and from whom you're buying.
  If not, you could end up with a $350.00 set of tubes that were misrepresented, and not what you paid good money for.


----------



## sperandeo

I just received the LYR TUBES (6N1P).

I'm listening to them for the first time and I must say I like these better than the stock tubes. I seem much more satisfied with the highs I'm now getting out of my LCD2's with the 6N1P tubes. This is the first time I've ever tube rolled and I have to say I kinda like it. 

Thanks Schiit for the great deal on these LYR TUBES (6N1P).

Nice to see that there are some GREAT companies out there with GREAT prices and GREAT product. 

My 2 favorites so far are 

Schiit and Audeze


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:



sperandeo said:


> I just received the LYR TUBES (6N1P).
> 
> I'm listening to them for the first time and I must say I like these better than the stock tubes. I seem much more satisfied with the highs I'm now getting out of my LCD2's with the 6N1P tubes. This is the first time I've ever tube rolled and I have to say I kinda like it.
> 
> ...


 
  You'll be hooked on rolling tubes in no time.  I agree with your favorites, if I can add Q-Audio, Norse Cables, and Moon Audio to the list.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Well, thanks to MrScary's impressions of the 6N23P tubes, I got a set from Cryoset and quite frankly, they are incredible!  The bass is plentiful and tight, there is no grain in the mids and highs...they make my Schiit sing!
  So my system is complete: Cowon J3 -> Milian Audio silver coated copper interconnect -> Schiit Lyr with 6N23P tubes -> Q-Audio Black Magic Cable -> LCD-2's -> Happy Ears and Smiling Face.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The system sounds absolutely amazing, and I want to thank everyone who assisted me in going bankrupt to achieve it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

I got some nice Siemens today and some others and have some 6N23P from the 60's coming. I can't believe I am buying this stuff since I already have it all but with it 7000 miles away . . . Anyway, tubes but no amp. :^) I got a Mullard 6922 also, that I thought was a Siemens so I will be looking for a mate.


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Well, thanks to MrScary's impressions of the 6N23P tubes, I got a set from Cryoset and quite frankly, they are incredible!  The bass is plentiful and tight, there is no grain in the mids and highs...they make my Schiit sing!
> So my system is complete: Cowon J3 -> Milian Audio silver coated copper interconnect -> Schiit Lyr with 6N23P tubes -> Q-Audio Black Magic Cable -> LCD-2's -> Happy Ears and Smiling Face.
> 
> 
> ...




Awesome I knew you would love the 6N23P's they are a great tube Im still waiting for my 60's set to come in it will be interesting to see how they sound compared to the 80's 6N23P's I have in there now..


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> hk_sends said:
> 
> 
> > Well, thanks to MrScary's impressions of the 6N23P tubes, I got a set from Cryoset and quite frankly, they are incredible!  The bass is plentiful and tight, there is no grain in the mids and highs...they make my Schiit sing!
> ...


----------



## sperandeo

mrscary said:


> hk_sends said:
> 
> 
> > Well, thanks to MrScary's impressions of the 6N23P tubes, I got a set from Cryoset and quite frankly, they are incredible!  The bass is plentiful and tight, there is no grain in the mids and highs...they make my Schiit sing!
> ...




Just wondering if you have tried the 6N1P and if you have can you tell me how they compare to the 6N23?

Also.....whats the exact set you bought from Cryoset? They have 2 different types.


----------



## achl354

ones with blue box suppose to sound more spacious/ larger soundstage

  
  Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

sperandeo said:


> mrscary said:
> 
> 
> > hk_sends said:
> ...




Yes I have 4 pairs of 6N1p's the only ones that sound descent are the 70's that I got from Russia all in all for the Lyr the 6N1p is a nasty sounding tube.. With the 6N23P's they have a smoother presentation no graininess I would pick up a pair of 6N23P's don't waste your money on the cryo's they are expensive and there is no proof that freezing the tubes does anything.. Look on ebay for a dealer that says they are matching tubes you can get two sets for what you would pay for one set from Cryo. I have some 60's 6N23P's coming in withing the next week or so I'm very curious to see how they sound to my 80's Russian 6N23 tubes I have in there now which sound fantastic.. Good luck


----------



## Rope

MrScary -
   
  Is your 6N23P's open or closed plate?


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> MrScary -
> 
> Is your 6N23P's open or closed plate?




Have no idea what do they look like with open and closed plate?


----------



## MrScary

Well I got my Amperex Pq Gold Pins in today. My first impressions are they are great tubes have nice bass beautiful minds and non stringent treble. IM running them now for awhile they sound a bit less bright then the 6N23P's but smoother I really dont prefer one over the other I have rolled them back and forth several times today on different music genres etc and they sound good. I would have to say that I payed 80.00 for them and for the average person I would suggest just picking up some 6N23P's.. I have some white label Amperex's coming in next week so will see how they sound.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 [size=medium] I agree with MrScary about the 6N23P's.  However, when I ordered my 6N23P's from Cryoset, it wasn't much more expensive than the ones I got through ebay.  I just got the cheaper single cryo-treated tubes.  I really did it to get them faster and have a second set for backup (I didn't care if they were "treated" or not).  I am using the Cryo tubes and they sound fantastic.  I didn't care for the 6N1P's (I got mine from Schiit) that much either.[/size]  
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  P.S. - This post editor is acting really wonky today...


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


>




I think they are closed plate I believe they are 80's OTK 2 Russian


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> [size=medium]I agree with MrScary about the 6N23P's.  However, when I ordered my 6N23P's from Cryoset, it wasn't much more expensive than the ones I got through ebay.  I just got the cheaper single cryo-treated tubes.  I really did it to get them faster and have a second set for backup (I didn't care if they were "treated" or not).  I am using the Cryo tubes and they sound fantastic.  I didn't care for the 6N1P's (I got mine from Schiit) that much either.[/size]
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> ...





Glad you are enjoying them I just yanked out my Amperex Pq Gold pins and put the 6N23P's back in now gotta find a buyer for the Amperex? Anyone want them I will sell them cheap they usually go for 100+ dollars


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:



mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, I gotta sell my Gold Lions and 6N1P's as well...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

I rolled in the Cryo 6N23P's last evening and didn't detect much difference compared to the 6N1P's I purchased direct from Russia.  I realize the former is still young, so this may change in the coming weeks.  I know little about the 6N1P's in terms of manufacture date (60, 70,80's) only that they're military (OTK Stamp).
   
  Scary, it's a bummer the Amperex's didn't pan out, however, it did save me $$$$$$$$.


----------



## jamato8

I don't know the operating points of the Lyr since I don't have one here but they may be on the low side for the 6N1P. If so, then the 6N1P won't sound the best it can. You can run the 6N1P hard and it sounds best that way. I do agree though that late 6N1P's in general are more grainy sounding. I have a bunch of 6DJ8's that are Amperex. They are Russian tubes but marked as being made in Holland, which Amperex tended to do when they stopped making tubes. I bought a few a number of years ago from a company going out of business and thought at the time I was getting real Amperex. They were inexpensive so I didn't mind when I got them and realized they were not Holland but Russian. They also sounded better than just about any 6DJ8 type I had. I bought the rest of their stock of these. I would imagine they are just rebranded 6N23P's. They last a long time and sound terrific. Too bad I don't have access to them right now.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> I rolled in the Cryo 6N23P's last evening and didn't detect much difference compared to the 6N1P's I purchased direct from Russia.  I realize the former is still young, so this may change in the coming weeks.  I know little about the 6N1P's in terms of manufacture date (60, 70,80's) only that they're military (OTK Stamp).
> 
> Scary, it's a bummer the Amperex's didn't pan out, however, it did save me $$$$$$$$.




I cant believe you dont hear a difference between the 6N1P's and the 6N23P's the only think I can think of is you got a good set of the 6N1P's from an old batch because if I roll in my 70's 6N1p's they sound similar but not as good as my 80's 6N23P's.. bummer
Yeah the Amperex's are ok sounding they sound mellow and more tube like than the other tubes they sound better when I crank up the Lyr to ear splitting levels hahahaha


----------



## achl354

sad to see so many ppl letting go of their Gold Lions, i enjoy mine, they fit a certain kind of 'mood' or music
   
  i am hoping to get a pair of Telefunken ecc88 (with <> bottom), Amperex JAN7308, hope things work out


----------



## Kremer930

Hi Scary
   
  Thanks for your input on the 23's.  I have almost pulled the trigger a couple of times but keep pausing as I have 8 different Russian tubes en route which I should at least try first.  That and the fact that I am about to spend a heap on some JH16 iems.   I am likely to succumb to your suggestion though.
   
  I dont know if it is your headphones not matching with the Schiit 6N1P tubes but through my HE6 and my DACmagic I really like the sound they give.  I will let you know how they compare to my new tubes once I get them.
   
   
   

  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

Quote:Kremer930 





> Hi Scary
> 
> Thanks for your input on the 23's.  I have almost pulled the trigger a couple of times but keep pausing as I have 8 different Russian tubes en route which I should at least try first.  That and the fact that I am about to spend a heap on some JH16 iems.   I am likely to succumb to your suggestion though.
> 
> I dont know if it is your headphones not matching with the Schiit 6N1P tubes but through my HE6 and my DACmagic I really like the sound they give.  I will let you know how they compare to my new tubes once I get them.


 
   
   
   

  Yeah maybe the 6N1p's sound good with some headphones and rigs I was just being general which is really a bad thing that the 6N1p's sound bad what I should have said is they have a graininess to them with most setups.. My 70's 6N1p's sound good just not as good as the Amperex Pq's or the 6N23's Ive been making my judgements with the HD650's and LCD2's the HE6's are next on my list still think you should pick up some 23's you wont put the 6N1p's back in hahahaha Yeah I still have 3 sets of tubes coming in a 60's pair of 6n23P's, while label Amperex, and a Gold pin 6n1p which was only 6.00 from Russia hahaha.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:



achl354 said:


> sad to see so many ppl letting go of their Gold Lions, i enjoy mine, they fit a certain kind of 'mood' or music
> 
> i am hoping to get a pair of Telefunken ecc88 (with <> bottom), Amperex JAN7308, hope things work out


 
  Don't get me wrong, the Gold Lions are great tubes.  They are very musical and I agree that they fit a certain type of music very well.  However, I listen to quite a variety of different types of music (Bach to BTO) and I find the 6N23Ps sound better with multiple music types than the Gold Lions.  Of course, this is all based on my subjective opinion...your ears may vary. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The bottom line is, go with what makes you and your ears happy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Kremer930

I think what is so very impressive in this instance is that we have different people enjoying different tubes, creating different musical signatures and loving the music...all because of a $450 amp.  Amazing. 
   
  I cannot wait for the next Schiit component.  Their are at least two components coming out of the Schiit works that will really create some excitement.  Lucky that I have the Lyr to help me pass time...in such an enjoyable way......


----------



## pseudohippy

So true Kremer, Ive been enjoying my Lyr since day one and my WA2 has not got much use these days. I even pulled my Bugle boys out of it and put them in the Lyr and Im very happy. Ive tried a few sets of tubes now including the stock, the other Schiit ones and the Bugles and I prefer them. So many different options for everyone to enjoy.


----------



## sperandeo

I just ordered a pair of 6N23P's from Cryoset.

After everything I read about these I want to try them. 

I was going to order them from eBay, but I find it risky to save around $10.00 (if that)..

At least I know I'll be getting a real matched set from Cryoset. The 3 venders I contacted on eBay told me there's were NOT matched.


----------



## MrScary

sperandeo said:


> I just ordered a pair of 6N23P's from Cryoset.
> 
> After everything I read about these I want to try them.
> 
> ...




cool join the 23 club even though Im running my Amperex Gold label Pq's at the moment I got a new cable for my LCD-2's and it brightened thing sup so I had to compensate with the tubes


----------



## HK_sends

I know it's OT, but what cable did you get?
   
  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I know it's OT, but what cable did you get?
> 
> -HK sends





I got a Norse cable its awesome I had to actually take out the 23's as they were too bright when I put the cable on the LCD-2's and went back to the amperex Gold label PQ's now it sounds awesome
Norse is a startup company you have to mail them but I can post a pic of the one I got www.norseaudio.com






The best thing is the price I only payed 149.99 great cable


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I know...I have Trevor's 8-wire cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  He's a great guy to deal with.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  Back OT: I should have my other set of 23's that I ordered from eBay here soon...


----------



## Snips

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That cable  looks prettty awesome lol


----------



## HK_sends

It is...Trevor at Norse Audio does great work.
   
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> It is...Trevor at Norse Audio does great work.
> 
> -HK sends




Yes Trevor is a great guy and fast shipping I was blown away when I plugged it in I had the 23's in the Lyr and I was like holy blank this is too bright .. so I pulled out the 23's put in the Amperex in and all is good in the scary world..
Im now curious on how the vintage white label Amperex will sound.. so many choices hahahaha


----------



## HK_sends

I am using a Q-Audio Black Magic cable from Steve Eddy with my LCD-2's now and the 23's are a perfect tube for it.
   
  If you want to get rid of your 23's, let me know...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I am using a Q-Audio Black Magic cable from Steve Eddy with my LCD-2's now and the 23's are a perfect tube for it.
> 
> If you want to get rid of your 23's, let me know...
> 
> ...




Nope never get rid of the 23's in fact now that the cable is breaking in I may put the 23's back in I also have a 60's pair of vintage 23's coming in.. In fact Im going to put them in now and see how it sounds but if I ever do decide to get rid of them you get first bids HK


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> hk_sends said:
> 
> 
> > I am using a Q-Audio Black Magic cable from Steve Eddy with my LCD-2's now and the 23's are a perfect tube for it.
> ...




Well I put the 23's back in and the soudstage is better than the Amperex Pq gold labels so Im keeping to my original rants about the 23's they are keepers.. Now Im axious to ge those 60's vintage 23's see if there is any difference which I doubt..


----------



## DemonicLemming

Agh...I'm stuck at a dead impasse as to which to order, the Q-Audio or the Norse.  Heard great things about both, and neither are so inexpensive as to keep me from trying one.
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I am using a Q-Audio Black Magic cable from Steve Eddy with my LCD-2's now and the 23's are a perfect tube for it.
> 
> If you want to get rid of your 23's, let me know...
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> Agh...I'm stuck at a dead impasse as to which to order, the Q-Audio or the Norse.  Heard great things about both, and neither are so inexpensive as to keep me from trying one.


 
  PM me if you want to try my Norse cable (it's the 8-wire, not the 4-wire).  It's not doing anything at the moment...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## sperandeo

demoniclemming said:


> Agh...I'm stuck at a dead impasse as to which to order, the Q-Audio or the Norse.  Heard great things about both, and neither are so inexpensive as to keep me from trying one.




I would like to know which cable sounds best with the 23's in the Lyr.


----------



## MrScary

sperandeo said:


> demoniclemming said:
> 
> 
> > Agh...I'm stuck at a dead impasse as to which to order, the Q-Audio or the Norse.  Heard great things about both, and neither are so inexpensive as to keep me from trying one.
> ...




Im sure either will be an improvement over the stock cable all I can say for the Norse cable is WOW!!


----------



## achl354

anyone here still using the stock interconnect cable?


----------



## MrScary

achl354 said:


> anyone here still using the stock interconnect cable?




for a jump rope


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> achl354 said:
> ...


 
  You must have long arms or short legs.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> You must have long arms or short legs.




hahahahaha


----------



## DemonicLemming

Initial impressions of the GE 6DJ8/ECC88 tubes - better soundstage and imaging than the Gold Lions; top end feels just a touch more airy and less forced.  Bass depth is shallower and bass impact is much lower than the GLs, but there's a bit more definition to it.  Transient dynamics feel a bit snappier.  Slight tendency to become sibilant with medium-quality songs that have a lot of cymbals.  Overall, not a bad tube if you want more of a shift towards the mids and highs, with less focus on the lower end of things.


----------



## Rope

I'm using stock cables!  Unfortunately, I can only afford the ignorant electrons, which don't really give a hoot, but take a highly conductive path to their destination.  After traveling hunreds of miles from the power house through crappy copper, sub-stations, transformers, and then through 2 1/2 miles of residential romex, they're looking forward to doing their job at final destination.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> I'm using stock cables!  Unfortunately, I can only afford the ignorant electrons, which don't really give a hoot, but take a highly conductive path to their destination.  After traveling hunreds of miles from the power house through crappy copper, sub-stations, transformers, and then through 2 1/2 miles of residential romex, they're looking forward to doing their job at final destination.


 

 yabbut, the last six feet make all the difference in the world? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Throw a coupla ferrite beads in there and be done with it.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> yabbut, the last six feet make all the difference in the world?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I see, full price electrons can sense when they're flying first class?


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> Initial impressions of the GE 6DJ8/ECC88 tubes - better soundstage and imaging than the Gold Lions; top end feels just a touch more airy and less forced.  Bass depth is shallower and bass impact is much lower than the GLs, but there's a bit more definition to it.  Transient dynamics feel a bit snappier.  Slight tendency to become sibilant with medium-quality songs that have a lot of cymbals.  Overall, not a bad tube if you want more of a shift towards the mids and highs, with less focus on the lower end of things.




I can concur with your assessment mine are in my tube box gathering dust


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> I see, full price electrons can sense when they're flying first class?


 
   
  No doubt!


----------



## jamato8

I guess it is like the old story that bits are bits except that there does seem to be a difference in sound quality as they have found out how to deal with the bits. As to the electron flow, after it is dealt with in the source and down the line, I feel there is a way to handle electrons to get the most from the music. 
   
  My 6N23P's have been held up somewhere along their journey. Hopeful they will find their way across the ocean but tracking shows them in Europe after 3 weeks and going nowhere. :^(


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I guess it is like the old story that bits are bits except that there does seem to be a difference in sound quality as they have found out how to deal with the bits. As to the electron flow, after it is dealt with in the source and down the line, I feel there is a way to handle electrons to get the most from the music.
> 
> My 6N23P's have been held up somewhere along their journey. Hopeful they will find their way across the ocean but tracking shows them in Europe after 3 weeks and going nowhere. :^(




Don't feel bad my 60's pair of 6N23P's are in the same shape its been 3 weeks and they are lost in the frozen tundra somewhere.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Bulgaria? That is where mine are coming from, I guess. Cryo treatment for free? :^) I remember when some were touting you could the same thing by using dry ice. Ok. . . I have never been sure about cryo though having read much about it, it does make some sense. I even have a William Henry knife that was cryoed. It doesn't hold an edge any better than knives costing half as much. More to do with the steal than the cryo I think.


----------



## DemonicLemming

While objectively doing cryo treatment on things can change the material structure, etc, it comes down to the same argument about the technical merits of cables - does it actually make an audible difference?  And at that point, I think it all goes subjective.
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Bulgaria? That is where mine are coming from, I guess. Cryo treatment for free? :^) I remember when some were touting you could the same thing by using dry ice. Ok. . . I have never been sure about cryo though having read much about it, it does make some sense. I even have a William Henry knife that was cryoed. It doesn't hold an edge any better than knives costing half as much. More to do with the steal than the cryo I think.


----------



## Wedge

If I remember correctly the point of cryo treatment had to do with extended the "good" life of a tube.  As tubes are generally a moving target, albeit a slow moving target.  I guess I really don't know but thats what I had recalled someone mentioning to me.
  
  Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> While objectively doing cryo treatment on things can change the material structure, etc, it comes down to the same argument about the technical merits of cables - does it actually make an audible difference?  And at that point, I think it all goes subjective.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Bulgaria? That is where mine are coming from, I guess. Cryo treatment for free? :^) I remember when some were touting you could the same thing by using dry ice. Ok. . . I have never been sure about cryo though having read much about it, it does make some sense. I even have a William Henry knife that was cryoed. It doesn't hold an edge any better than knives costing half as much. More to do with the steal than the cryo I think.




Yep mine are coming from Bulgaria as well I dont know if that is a frozen tundra but it sounds good..

hahaha


----------



## jamato8

Well I was totally surprised today. I got the tubes. They were never scanned into the USPS system but arrived in good condition and it took about 3 weeks. I got a pair of the 6N23P 1969 and a pair of the 6N1P 1964. Both are military stamped and all measurements are with them.


----------



## HK_sends

...and...how do they sound? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Ynoskire

In the summer of Bulgaria it's above 30 degrees centegrade most of the time, I've been there once, didn't like it very much though. I'm also quite interested to hear what they sound like, they seem to be the new Lyr thing, like the Gold Lion was a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## jamato8

The 6N1P and 6N23P are not new to me. I have used them for years and as long as the operating points are normal, which I am sure they are in the Lyr, there should be good sound to be heard, which many have commented on. I do find that years of production matter as does EV in the designation of the tube.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> The 6N1P and 6N23P are not new to me. I have used them for years and as long as the operating points are normal, which I am sure they are in the Lyr, there should be good sound to be heard, which many have commented on. I do find that years of production matter as does EV in the designation of the tube.





I ordered some cryo multi treatment 6n23P's to compare them to the 60's 6N23P's and my current 80's set that I have in the Lyr will be interesting to see if I can tell any difference with the Cryo tubes I doubt it but just adds more tubes to my box


----------



## olor1n

Sorry for the lazy question here (I've yet to read through this thread), but what tubes would you guys recommend for a Lyr paired with the HD650? I favor a textured, warm side of neutral signature and am hoping to hear the supposedly better imaging tubes provide over solid state. Where do you guys buy these tubes from?


----------



## DemonicLemming

From the tubes I've tried so far, I like the Amperex orange-label PQ-mark US-made 6922 (gasp) the most.  Very slightly warm, with great detail retrieval, imaging and soundstage, and good response and impact from the bottom of the frequency spectrum to the top.
   
  I get most of my tubes from ebay, but there are a few web stores to get them from, too, but since I haven't personally used any I'd hesitate to recommend a specific one.
  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Sorry for the lazy question here (I've yet to read through this thread), but what tubes would you guys recommend for a Lyr paired with the HD650? I favor a textured, warm side of neutral signature and am hoping to hear the supposedly better imaging tubes provide over solid state. Where do you guys buy these tubes from?


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> From the tubes I've tried so far, I like the Amperex orange-label PQ-mark US-made 6922 (gasp) the most.  Very slightly warm, with great detail retrieval, imaging and soundstage, and good response and impact from the bottom of the frequency spectrum to the top.
> 
> I get most of my tubes from ebay, but there are a few web stores to get them from, too, but since I haven't personally used any I'd hesitate to recommend a specific one.




I agree I have the same tubes they are a bit warm but they do lose just a tad of detail compared to the 6N23P. I have some white label Amperex coming in soon probably today so It will be interesting contrasting the two


----------



## DemonicLemming

Another quick update.
   
  Amperex PQ, US-made orange label 6922: against the Gold Lions, they're better in almost every respect.  Better highs, better bass, better mids, wider soundstage, more precise imaging, meaty without being overweight.  Favorite tubes to date so far.  Just got my Brimar tubes in, so I'm going to give them a go after dinner tonight.
   
  Also, my set of 1' Blue Jeans RCAs came in today.  I'm a decided cable skeptic (at least, for the prices some of the aftermarket ones go for), but given the low price and solid rationale given on the Blue Jeans site, picked up a set.  And they actually make a difference.  Everything has a bit more impact, soundstage is better, and strings sound more realistic.  The cello and drums are a bit...thicker?  Less anemic sounding than they were, at least.  Everything just sounds less compressed.  At $26, it would be hard for me not to recommend them.


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> Another quick update.
> 
> Amperex PQ, US-made orange label 6922: against the Gold Lions, they're better in almost every respect.  Better highs, better bass, better mids, wider soundstage, more precise imaging, meaty without being overweight.  Favorite tubes to date so far.  Just got my Brimar tubes in, so I'm going to give them a go after dinner tonight.
> 
> Also, my set of 1' Blue Jeans RCAs came in today.  I'm a decided cable skeptic (at least, for the prices some of the aftermarket ones go for), but given the low price and solid rationale given on the Blue Jeans site, picked up a set.  And they actually make a difference.  Everything has a bit more impact, soundstage is better, and strings sound more realistic.  The cello and drums are a bit...thicker?  Less anemic sounding than they were, at least.  Everything just sounds less compressed.  At $26, it would be hard for me not to recommend them.




Yeah I use blue jean cables for my rca connections and for my Spdiff cable cant beat the price and they are beefy cables very nice.


----------



## MrScary

My white label Amperex didn't come in today think Im going to cry will ge them tommorrow.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> Another quick update.
> 
> Amperex PQ, US-made orange label 6922: against the Gold Lions, they're better in almost every respect.  Better highs, better bass, better mids, wider soundstage, more precise imaging, meaty without being overweight.  Favorite tubes to date so far.  Just got my Brimar tubes in, so I'm going to give them a go after dinner tonight.
> 
> Also, my set of 1' Blue Jeans RCAs came in today.  I'm a decided cable skeptic (at least, for the prices some of the aftermarket ones go for), but given the low price and solid rationale given on the Blue Jeans site, picked up a set.  And they actually make a difference.  Everything has a bit more impact, soundstage is better, and strings sound more realistic.  The cello and drums are a bit...thicker?  Less anemic sounding than they were, at least.  Everything just sounds less compressed.  At $26, it would be hard for me not to recommend them.


 

 So are you still a decided cable skeptic?


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> Sorry for the lazy question here (I've yet to read through this thread), but what tubes would you guys recommend for a Lyr paired with the HD650? I favor a textured, warm side of neutral signature and am hoping to hear the supposedly better imaging tubes provide over solid state. Where do you guys buy these tubes from?




YOu should use something that is not warm I would go with the 6N23P's my 650's sound great with them


----------



## DemonicLemming

Of the super-high-price ones, yes, and definitely about silver and silver-plated copper.  I think there are some gains to be had with well-designed, good-quality cable, but I think a lot of the boutique cables that cost as much as, or more than, the headphones they're going on are a bit overboard.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> So are you still a decided cable skeptic?


----------



## MrScary

Anyone wanting a matched pair of Amperex Gold PQ's for 60.00 + shipping let me know I prefer the 23's I'm losing money big time on this I thought I would post here first if anyone from the thread wants them PM me soon or I am putting them on ebay


----------



## WNBC

Got my Cryoset 6N23P today.  Website says 100-200 hours burn in time.  23s are a very nice contrast to the Gold Lions.  I will be keeping both.  Gold Lions have the bass I like and the Cryoset do sound more open or airy and detailed.  I listen to a lot of jazz that employs a double bass like Avishai Cohen and Helge Lien Trio.  Gold Lions might be better suited for some music however I'm just starting to burn so 23s may take over the majority of work.  In any case, great suggestion MrScary, money definitely not wasted on these tubes.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Got my Cryoset 6N23P today.  Website says 100-200 hours burn in time.  23s are a very nice contrast to the Gold Lions.  I will be keeping both.  Gold Lions have the bass I like and the Cryoset do sound more open or airy and detailed.  I listen to a lot of jazz that employs a double bass like Avishai Cohen and Helge Lien Trio.  Gold Lions might be better suited for some music however I'm just starting to burn so 23s may take over the majority of work.  In any case, great suggestion MrScary, money definitely not wasted on these tubes.




Glad you like them


----------



## olor1n

Just read through this thread. I'm surprised you guys haven't rolled through the tubes mentioned *here*. Is it because these are more expensive and harder to obtain?
   
  Btw, I agree with the praise for the BJC cables. The BJC LC-1 and Belden 5000UE improved the resolve and imaging of my Audioengine A2 significantly.


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> Just read through this thread. I'm surprised you guys haven't rolled through the tubes mentioned *here*. Is it because these are more expensive and harder to obtain?
> 
> Btw, I agree with the praise for the BJC cables. The BJC LC-1 and Belden 5000UE improved the resolve and imaging of my Audioengine A2 significantly.




Harder to obtain I would say. Some of us have rolled an Amperex or two but it seems the consensus so far has been that for the majority of users that have tried them, the Russian 6N23p's are giving a good all around sound. I have some Amperex white label's coming in so Im going to try them and some 60's 6N23P's and some Cryo 6N23P's ,after that Im done I have already rolled 7 tube sets and so far the 6N23P has been the all around best tube for me for my setup it can be a bit bright at time as I have a highly resolving DAC but for most music its great.


----------



## WNBC

The tubes in that link have been covered.  We're all debating on whether or not to spend the mucho dinero.  Harder to find but unfortunately we found them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Now it just boils down to pulling the trigger.  Got the Lions and 6N23P.  I'm happy with them but I don't think my rolling is done yet.  Going to just listen to these two tubes this month and then decide if I'm going to pony up for the Amperex PQ white label.  However saving $200 to put towards a LCD-2 ain't a bad option either.  
   
  I will be interested to hear MrScary opinion on the Amperex white label.   With the MiniMax DAC are you using SS or tube ouput?  

  
   
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Just read through this thread. I'm surprised you guys haven't rolled through the tubes mentioned *here*. Is it because these are more expensive and harder to obtain?
> 
> Btw, I agree with the praise for the BJC cables. The BJC LC-1 and Belden 5000UE improved the resolve and imaging of my Audioengine A2 significantly.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> The tubes in that link have been covered.  We're all debating on whether or not to spend the mucho dinero.  Harder to find but unfortunately we found them
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Save the 200.00 for the LCD-2 I have the Amperex white labels coming in today so I can give a review on them but then there are many white labels hahahaha


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> wnbc said:
> 
> 
> > The tubes in that link have been covered.  We're all debating on whether or not to spend the mucho dinero.  Harder to find but unfortunately we found them
> ...




With the Minimax I have it modded it has new opamps new high definition tube and silver fuse so it is really resolving I use the tube output they sound similar with the opamps I have in there Im running AD823's for the tube output and the combo of AD823 and AD797 for the solid state they sound so similar that it really doesn't matter which I choose. The only plus to the tube output is it puts out 3 volts compared to 2.5 for the SS and gives a bit of a tube sound


----------



## DemonicLemming

Another quick tube update: Brimar BVA E88CC.  Very close call between these and the Amperex tubes.  Very close.  Need to do a lot more listening between these sets to decide which I like more; right now, they're tied.  Amperex is a little warmer, Brimar is a little more airy.  Porterhouse vs sirloin, as it were.
   
  Still waiting on my '70s 6N1P Russian tubes, but I don't think they're going to match the Brimar or Amperex tubes.


----------



## WNBC

MrScary said:
			
		

> *MrScary*





> With the Minimax I have it modded it has new opamps new high definition tube and silver fuse so it is really resolving I use the tube output they sound similar with the opamps I have in there Im running AD823's for the tube output and the combo of AD823 and AD797 for the solid state they sound so similar that it really doesn't matter which I choose the only plus to the tube output is it puts out 3 volts compared to 2.5 for the SS


 

 Thanks for the info.  I was wondering if a tube DAC and tube AMP had a major influence on sound.  We all have different set-ups so I was just keeping that in mind.  For me, any tube that helps with the HE-4 slightly recessed midrange will be desired whereas in your system it may not be ideal.  LCD's yeah, I guess that's in my 6-12 month plan.  I should attend a meet to hear these phones.  Appears a lot of people are going with the LCD-2 and Lyr combo.


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> Another quick tube update: Brimar BVA E88CC.  Very close call between these and the Amperex tubes.  Very close.  Need to do a lot more listening between these sets to decide which I like more; right now, they're tied.  Amperex is a little warmer, Brimar is a little more airy.  Porterhouse vs sirloin, as it were.
> 
> Still waiting on my '70s 6N1P Russian tubes, but I don't think they're going to match the Brimar or Amperex tubes.




I agree my 70's 6N1P's are only slightly less grainy than the Schiit tubes they are smoother but they still have that sound to them that doesn't sit well in the Lyr


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Thanks for the info.  I was wondering if a tube DAC and tube AMP had a major influence on sound.  We all have different set-ups so I was just keeping that in mind.  For me, any tube that helps with the HE-4 slightly recessed midrange will be desired whereas in your system it may not be ideal.  LCD's yeah, I guess that's in my 6-12 month plan.  I should attend a meet to hear these phones.  Appears a lot of people are going with the LCD-2 and Lyr combo.




The Tube Dac is awesome in the fact you can switch between a tad of tube or SS I prefer having a tad of tube for my LCD-2's but its so resolving I have to be careful what cables I select etc.. Any silver cables would bring in a brightness that would burn my ears hahahaha


----------



## Skooks

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I don't know for sure, but it seems likely.  Again, though, I am not sure there is any significance to that.  What choice does either of them really have?  I guess Cavilli could consider supplying it with Gold Lions since the Liquid Fire is a more upscale amp.  But if I were making tube amps, I would supply whatever tube I thought was halfway decent but not too expensive, knowing many people will be rolling tubes anyway.  The JJ is a decent, cheap, readily available tube.


 
  I think Skylab is right... BUT... you have to burn the JJ's in with music for about 120 hours before they open up and perform like they are capable of doing. If you are making your hard fast "give up on 'em" judgment before about 120 hours, you are missing what the JJ's can do. Different tubes require different break in time... just as amp circuits are different. But, my general rule over all my years with tube amps, and even with solid state, you should burn in with real music... especially "Big Band" type with all those horns.
   
  I have the Gold Lions and the Schiit 6N1P's coming tomorrow and the day after. I'm anxious to see what they can do against a burned in set of stock Lyr's.
   
  By the way, I was quite disappointed with the Lyr at 100 hours, compared to my Little Dot Mk IVSE, driving my HE-5LE's. But, at about 115 to 120 hours, the Lyr suddenly became a different amp... a good amp! I'm anxious to see how it compares with these next two set of tubes.


----------



## MrScary

skooks said:


> I think Skylab is right... BUT... you have to burn the JJ's in with music for about 120 hours before they open up and perform like they are capable of doing. If you are making your hard fast "give up on 'em" judgment before about 120 hours, you are missing what the JJ's can do. Different tubes require different break in time... just as amp circuits are different. But, my general rule over all my years with tube amps, and even with solid state, you should burn in with real music... especially "Big Band" type with all those horns.
> 
> I have the Gold Lions and the Schiit 6N1P's coming tomorrow and the day after. I'm anxious to see what they can do against a burned in set of stock Lyr's.
> 
> By the way, I was quite disappointed with the Lyr at 100 hours, compared to my Little Dot Mk IVSE, driving my HE-5LE's. But, at about 115 to 120 hours, the Lyr suddenly became a different amp... a good amp! I'm anxious to see how it compares with these next two set of tubes.




The JJ;s just don't sound good in the Lyr I put on almost 200 hours on them and they still stank they have recessed mids good bass and edgy treble.


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> skooks said:
> 
> 
> > I think Skylab is right... BUT... you have to burn the JJ's in with music for about 120 hours before they open up and perform like they are capable of doing. If you are making your hard fast "give up on 'em" judgment before about 120 hours, you are missing what the JJ's can do. Different tubes require different break in time... just as amp circuits are different. But, my general rule over all my years with tube amps, and even with solid state, you should burn in with real music... especially "Big Band" type with all those horns.
> ...




You chose two of the tubes that the are not a good fit for the Lyr by general consensus .the Gold Lions sound fair but are too mid centric I put over 100 hours on them.. and the 6N1p's Schiits are just horrible nasty grany tubes they are new batch 6N1p's and just don't have the sound
that the older 60's and some 70's 6N1P's have.. Now given my following statement you may have equipment that accommodates the said tubes.


----------



## Kremer930

In defense of the Schiit 6N1P's.... I am still using them and really like them in combination with my dacmagic and HE6.  I am using silver RCA cables and feeding the Dacmagic 24/96 optical from my Mac. 
   
  Could it be that something in your system is causing the sharp treble besides the Schiit tubes?  Either that or my ears have lost their edge or one of my components is softening the treble.  I have only tried 4 dacs so far within my system and they are all relative entry models.  I have tried a Audio-GD Fun with the Wolfson 8741, an ibasso D12 with the twin 8740 chips, a Matrix fed via Hiface usb converter and now finally the Dacmagic on optical.  The DacMagic has the nicest bass tightness and extension and treble felt equivalent to the matrix.
   
  I am hanging out for the new Schiit dac to enable the DacMagic to be retired.  I wonder if I will still like the Schiit tubes then???  
   
  I still think that for $20 the Schiit tubes are an auto purchase whilst researching Russian 6N23's etc.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> In defense of the Schiit 6N1P's.... I am still using them and really like them in combination with my dacmagic and HE6.  I am using silver RCA cables and feeding the Dacmagic 24/96 optical from my Mac.
> 
> Could it be that something in your system is causing the sharp treble besides the Schiit tubes?  Either that or my ears have lost their edge or one of my components is softening the treble.  I have only tried 4 dacs so far within my system and they are all relative entry models.  I have tried a Audio-GD Fun with the Wolfson 8741, an ibasso D12 with the twin 8740 chips, a Matrix fed via Hiface usb converter and now finally the Dacmagic on optical.  The DacMagic has the nicest bass tightness and extension and treble felt equivalent to the matrix.
> 
> ...




Once you put in the 23's you will never put the newer batch of 6N1P's back in  IM not saying I cant live with the sound of the Schiit tubes Im just saying they have a graniness to them that may go away after a few hundred hours but the 23's stomp the 6N1P's. Im evaluating the Amperex white label vintage tubes that came in today I hope to have my thoughts on them as I listen for a couple hours.. I just got my first bad batch of ebay tubes I ordered some 60's 6N1p's and one was bad so into the garbage they go... ;(


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Once you put in the 23's you will never put the newer batch of 6N1P's back in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Did you contact the seller to get a replacement? Was the tube dead or noisy? They are supposed to be tested. Mine have the testing information with them.  No 1960's 6N23P yet? I have all the tubes but no amp. Waiting. :^)
   
  Has anyone tried the gold grid 6N1P's?


----------



## MrScary

That was the one that was bad was the gold grid 6N1P one was noisy I switched channels in the Lyr just to make sure. No I didn't contact the seller yet I was cleaning up my ebay last night and think I deleted him in "my won" area
woops ohh well..


----------



## MrScary

Well I just finished a 3 hour listening session with the White Label Holland silver pin Amperex.

Nice and warm sounding has nice mids to it the bass is a little less that the 6N23P's and is not quite as resolving but sounds more tubish the highs are not straining and again warm this is a keeper
Its a vintage tube so I have no idea how many hours are on it already. I have my multi cryo 6N23p's coming in tomorrow so I will give a brief view on them compared to my 80's 23's Im running now
I wish I had a switch so I could switch between the Amperex white label and the 23's I already wore out my tube glove hahaha


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Did you contact the seller to get a replacement? Was the tube dead or noisy? They are supposed to be tested. Mine have the testing information with them.  No 1960's 6N23P yet? I have all the tubes but no amp. Waiting. :^)
> 
> Has anyone tried the gold grid 6N1P's?




Nope no 60's 23's yet still waiting


----------



## jamato8

I ordered two pair of the gold grid 6N1P so hopefully I will two good pair or at least one good pair. He forgot to send both pairs so I have one here and the other one he mailed out the other day. I also got some other 6N1P's from him. All these white label, orange globe etc etc and I have 150 in storage. gahhhh And all NOS never used.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


jamato8 said:


> I ordered two pair of the gold grid 6N1P so hopefully I will two good pair or at least one good pair. He forgot to send both pairs so I have one here and the other one he mailed out the other day. I also got some other 6N1P's from him. All these white label, orange globe etc etc and I have 150 in storage. gahhhh And all NOS never used.


 

 Do you have any Marconi Osram B65 in storage?


----------



## jamato8

I won't have bragging rights to that. :^) The most expensive I have is the TS RP in NOS. I actually got heavy into the 12SN7's as in my opinion, they sound better due to the different filament voltage and they are cheap by comparison. I also like the 7N7 but they always seem to go noisy on me. I have adapters I mades so I can use the 7N7 in the octal.


----------



## ZorgDK

After the praise I hear about the 6N23P I figured I gotta have myself a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll see how they compare to Schiit's 6N1P. 
   
  Hmm... Should I go for 
   
*Reflector 6N23P-EV Military Cryo  50$*
   
  or
   
*Reflector 6N23P-EV Military Super Cryo Matched Pair* 70$
   
  Do you think the latter are worth the extra cost?
   
   
http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=262&osCsid=e015927a4ca800e59981ae55c0ba1a22


----------



## DemonicLemming

At those prices, you can get a nice set of Amperex tubes.  Personally, I wouldn't pay more than about $25 for a pair of NOS Russian tubes (and there are plenty of 23s on ebay for that price).
  
  Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> After the praise I hear about the 6N23P I figured I gotta have myself a pair
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

zorgdk said:


> After the praise I hear about the 6N23P I figured I gotta have myself a pair
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I decided to get the expensive set the multi cryoed or whatever they call it of the 6N23P's to compare them to my 80's set that I was running I can't really give you a good answer the 23's sound great and do not have the 
graininess of the Schiit 6N1p's you can get a pair on ebay matched for probably 30.00 but it takes forever to get them from Russia.. The Cryo's come in today so I can give a bit of my feeling on them which I believe will be that they sound the same as the non-cryoed ones hahaha

Currently Im running the Amperex Holland white label they are my new favorite tube but they ain't cheap..


----------



## ZorgDK

Thanks chaps.
   
  MrScary, I'll use you as a guinea pig and let you test the super cryo's first then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you don't find them superior then I'll look on ebay for some cheap 23's. 
   
  I can see this is going to be worse than my opamp roll adventures... Addictive little glowing glass buggers.


----------



## MrScary

zorgdk said:


> Thanks chaps.
> 
> MrScary, I'll use you as a guinea pig and let you test the super cryo's first then.
> 
> ...




Ohh yeah I have now rolled 9 tube sets through the Lyr and hahaha probably wont stop... Yeah I don't mind being the guinea pig the sucky thing is UPS comes like at 8pm in my area they suck I hate UPS I prefer Fedex or USPS..

I already wore out my tube glove from rolling tubes had to order another one hahahah. Of course I can't wait for them to cool down


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Ohh yeah I have now rolled 9 tube sets through the Lyr and hahaha probably wont stop... Yeah I don't mind being the guinea pig the sucky thing is UPS comes like at 8pm in my area they suck I hate UPS I prefer Fedex or USPS..
> 
> I already wore out my tube glove from rolling tubes had to order another one hahahah. Of course I can't wait for them to cool down


 

  
  Hehe, you wore out your glove... I use the top foam from the small box the Schiit tubes came with. Works pretty well. I've switched between the 6NP1's and the JJ's a couple of times so I'm getting quite quick at replacing them.
   
  DHL are the quickest I've tried when ordering stuff from abroad. They call in the morning and say when they'll come by and they seem to race through customs unlike our National postal service. It can take several weeks for them to clear a package through.


----------



## MrScary

zorgdk said:


> Hehe, you wore out your glove... I use the top foam from the small box the Schiit tubes came with. Works pretty well. I've switched between the 6NP1's and the JJ's a couple of times so I'm getting quite quick at replacing them.
> 
> DHL are the quickest I've tried when ordering stuff from abroad. They call in the morning and say when they'll come by and they seem to race through customs unlike our National postal service. It can take several weeks for them to clear a package through.




If you want to buy my 80's 23's from me I will give them to you for 25.00 + shipping they are already broken in they were NOS... IM being a nice guy today if you don't want them Im going to put them on ebay they are a matched set by the way. Just after I get the cryo's there is not reason for me to keep them as I have a 60's pair of 23's coming in from Russia


----------



## ZorgDK

mrscary, sent you a pm.


----------



## MrScary

Well I got the Muti-Cryo treated 6N23P's this evening I'm running them now and I hate to say it but I was wrong the cryo treatment does do something to the tube. The bass is more defined and warmer the mids are smooth and the treble is not sibilant as is a tad with non- broken in 6N23P's... They sound allot more like the Amperex White Label's. I did a right left test of the 80's 6N23p's against the Cryo treated tubes and the Cryo's do sound better.. So whatever they are doing the cryo treatment is a sell for me. Im going to burn them in for several days to see if the sound changes but I am impressed. Just not for the prices that they charge..


----------



## WNBC

Damn, I was really starting to like the single coat cryo 6N23P.  We have liquid nitrogen at work, maybe I'll do a little double dipping.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well I got the Muti-Cryo treated 6N23P's this evening I'm running them now and I hate to say it but I was wrong the cryo treatment does do something to the tube. The bass is more defined and warmer the mids are smooth and the treble is not sibilant as is a tad with non- broken in 6N23P's... They sound allot more like the Amperex White Label's. I did a right left test of the 80's 6N23p's against the Cryo treated tubes and the Cryo's do sound better.. So whatever they are doing the cryo treatment is a sell for me. Im going to burn them in for several days to see if the sound changes but I am impressed. Just not for the prices that they charge..


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Damn, I was really starting to like the single coat cryo 6N23P.  We have liquid nitrogen at work, maybe I'll do a little double dipping.




I don't thing you would notice any difference between the single coat and the mutli.. hahah maybe he isnt even doing cryo at all


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well, I got the single cryo and am perfectly happy with the tubes and the sound with my LCD-2s.
   
  Cheers!
  -HK sends


----------



## ChavaC

Ditto to the 23's. Received a pair today (single cryo) and they sound really nice even with barely any burn in. I did the L/R slider thing with them and it was pretty impressive to the stock jj's. Can't wait to see what they're like with more time on them.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Damn, I was really starting to like the single coat cryo 6N23P.  We have liquid nitrogen at work, maybe I'll do a little double dipping.


 
  I guess you are kidding but they do have to be taken down slowly and back up over many hours.


----------



## WNBC

Yeah, kidding, could give it a shot but I'd rather just spend the extra $20 for them to do it.  The single-treated cryo sound good.  After broken in I need to do some comparisons again with the Gold Lion.

  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I guess you are kidding but they do have to be taken down slowly and back up over many hours.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Balls, I have a 240 gallon tank of LN2 sitting back in the lab...now I have ideas.  Never even thought of doing cryo myself, since the environmental chambers here only go down to about -125*F.
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Damn, I was really starting to like the single coat cryo 6N23P.  We have liquid nitrogen at work, maybe I'll do a little double dipping.


----------



## MrScary

chavac said:


> Ditto to the 23's. Received a pair today (single cryo) and they sound really nice even with barely any burn in. I did the L/R slider thing with them and it was pretty impressive to the stock jj's. Can't wait to see what they're like with more time on them.




Yeah doing a direct comparison makes you want to throw the JJ's. They sound like Schiit I guess that Schiit got a good deal on the JJ's. Im starting to like the Multi Cycle 23's more and more I have now 12 hours on them. IM going to listen to them for a week then
put the Amperex white label's back in and make a determination on what sounds best. Hopefully I will get my 60's 6N23P's soon so I can see what kind of sound signature they have..


----------



## DemonicLemming

I think a lot of manufacturers wind up using new-production tubes because of the availability of them, and the overall lower cost than using some expensive NOS tubes.  Plus, I'd imagine most tube amp makers figure people are going to roll tubes, anyway; why not give them the least-expensive tube option to start with, so the end user can spend the extra money on the specific tubes they want?
   
  I haven't taken the Brimar tubes out of mine yet...really like how they sound.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Misterrogers

Dropped in a pair of Cryo treated 6N23P's today. Wow - as noted they're a big step in the right direction from the JJ's. Thanks for your efforts all!


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Dropped in a pair of Cryo treated 6N23P's today. Wow - as noted they're a big step in the right direction from the JJ's. Thanks for your efforts all!


 


  Glad you like them


----------



## Misterrogers

Some of you who have been rolling for awhile - I'm looking for a good but inexpensive case to store tubes in. Any recommendations?


----------



## MikoLayer

Just went thru the entire thread, feeling kinda exhausted to go back and dig up the links for the cryo-treated 23's. Would anyone be kind enough to point me in that direction? Also, what's the verdict on single-cycle vs multi-cycle?


----------



## Misterrogers

http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=262&osCsid=jue6pf0gvleh9p4rq5l35nnpf2


----------



## MikoLayer

ugh... yeah I guess I have misread the thread somewhat, a tad too rich for my blood. $30ish for the untreated ones sounds more like what I am willing to pay. Thanks nonetheless!
   
  EDIT: oops, so that was for 2 units of those... and if I disregard the matched pair bit its a more reasonable $50. Much better


----------



## Misterrogers

The single Cryo ones are at a link on the bottom of the page.


----------



## MikoLayer

ahh nvm. so that was just single tube vs pair..
  It works out to be $10 extra per tube or $20 for a pair..


----------



## Misterrogers

Listening to these cryo-treated 23's (single cryo) right now. I've only tried the stock JJ's, 61NP's and these. The '23s' are money very well spent. Improved sound stage, tighter base, improved mids and highs. I'll hold with these for awhile until MrScary and others ferret out the 'next step'


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Listening to these cryo-treated 23's (single cryo) right now. I've only tried the stock JJ's, 61NP's and these. The '23s' are money very well spent. Improved sound stage, tighter base, improved mids and highs. I'll hold with these for awhile until MrScary and others ferret out the 'next step'




Yeah I am Ferreting now looking through all the tube sites and ebay. Sadly what I'm looking for is very very expensive I'm not happy with the white label Amperex after more extended listening so Im using the multi cyro 23's right now..
I have the tube rolling sickness. The biggest problem is the best sounding tubes are all vintage, very expensive and hard to get without robbing a bank and these tubes only last so long so getting another vintage pair is questionable if you 
find one you really like.


----------



## Misterrogers

I suspect that's very true. I'm gonna research the availability of the 23's. Might be wise to stock a couple extra sets if you fine a tube that makes you happy.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mikolayer said:


> ugh... yeah I guess I have misread the thread somewhat, a tad too rich for my blood. $30ish for the untreated ones sounds more like what I am willing to pay. Thanks nonetheless!
> 
> EDIT: oops, so that was for 2 units of those... and if I disregard the matched pair bit its a more reasonable $50. Much better


 
  Given how they're used, you would probably do well to use matched pairs.


----------



## MrScary

Well I just bought some CC 60's Valvo's off of ebay NOS they were expensive but they are suppose to sound tremendous guess I will find out in a couple weeks by the time they ship.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all,
   
  Lots of good discussion here!
   
  We've played with 6N23Ps, but I suspect our vendor was probably scraping the bottom of the barrel, because all the samples we got were highly microphonic. Other than that, we really liked the tubes. If you can find some good solid examples, go for it!
   
  I'm looking forward to jamato8's impressions of some "non-standard" tubes, (not 6DJ8, but same pinout)--we haven't had time to really go down that road, except with 6N2Ps, which weren't thrilling. Since Lyr is biased with a current source, you can plug in a lot of different tubes and they'll run, but the results are going to vary based on their optimal operating point, inherent linearity, gain, etc. 
   
  Oh, and: we're shipping Lyrs again (since the 10th), so if you have been waiting a while, you're probably only a day or so away from shipping. For newer orders, we're running a continuous 4th run starting next week, so we will *finally* be in a stocking position before the end of the month.
   
  Best,
  Jason


----------



## MrScary

jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Lots of good discussion here!
> 
> ...




I think that a majority of users have been trying out the 23's my question is why Schiit chooses to use the JJ's they are not very good sounding Jason. I know you are not in the business of tube rolling but the JJ's are a bad choice even at the price point of the Lyr..
On another note I'm having a blast rolling tubes through the Lyr and thanks for a great product.


----------



## Rope

Whoa is me, no Schiit DAC news.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Whoa is me, no Schiit DAC news.







I wonder if they are going to have different dac's at different price points or just one?


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


mrscary said:


> I wonder if they are going to have different dac's at different price points or just one?


 
   
  He already covered this in a different thread.
   
  Quote:


> What you can look forward to:
> 1. A line of 3 DACs, the first to be announced in June as the highest-value product like Asgard was announced last June. We'll also give at least a brief roadmap of what's coming so people can know if they want to wait or not. All of the DACs will have some surprises but the final 'statement' DAC will be the most, ahem - _surprising_.
> 2. A 'statement' headphone/2-channel product.
> 
> ...





   

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/545842/schiit-dac-the-information-and-anticipation-thread

   

  The first DAC will be entry-level.  The second and third ones will be beasts, from my understanding.


----------



## MrScary

sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> He already covered this in a different thread.
> 
> ...




Thanks


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 There's a ton of speculation, one thing is a sure bet, there will be multiple DAC's and after owning the Lyr, I'll be proud to own a Schiit DAC.


----------



## Bobcow

Will be interesting if their DAC's offer as great value as their amps do. Currently loving my NFB-2 anyway.
  Ordered some 6N23P's for my Lyr, $50 for 4 off ebay. Never rolled tubes before, I can see myself getting addicted soon though


----------



## MrScary

bobcow said:


> Will be interesting if their DAC's offer as great value as their amps do. Currently loving my NFB-2 anyway.
> Ordered some 6N23P's for my Lyr, $50 for 4 off ebay. Never rolled tubes before, I can see myself getting addicted soon though




hope you got matched tubes the sound difference will be an awakening


----------



## olor1n

Lyr in the house! Will refrain from posting impressions for now, other than how solid this amp is. Great build quality and is much smaller than I anticipated (bonus). Can't wait to start rolling tubes!


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> Lyr in the house! Will refrain from posting impressions for now, other than how solid this amp is. Great build quality and is much smaller than I anticipated (bonus). Can't wait to start rolling tubes!




Yeah its smaller than I thought it was going to be as well but its heavy


----------



## olor1n

I'm getting some very faint static in the right channel. Hopefully it subsides as the tubes warm up. There's more travel on the volume dial on the Lyr for the HD650 than on the Fun. I like that.


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> I'm getting some very faint static in the right channel. Hopefully it subsides as the tubes warm up. There's more travel on the volume dial on the Lyr for the HD650 than on the Fun. I like that.




Get those crummy JJ tubes out of there asap they suck


----------



## blankdisc

Huge thanks to MrScary. finally received 6N23P-EV from Russia yesterday. i just ordered a regular pair from eBay. nothing fancy here. The first impression is just great. When i changed from stock JJ to Schiit's own 6N1P, the shrink of sound stage is the only thing i didn't like, which is the reason why Jason didn't go for it. 6N23P not only brings back the sound stage of JJ, but also retains the smooth mids and musicality of 6N1P. I am think that i am done tube rolling with Lyr.


----------



## olor1n

Damn it. Swapped the tubes around and the static has now transferred to the left channel. Gonna pull the trigger on some Cryo 23's but I'll be pissed if this is a common occurrence.


----------



## Misterrogers

I enjoyed my '23s' at work yesterday with my SXC cabled K702's. Great synergy, fantastic top to bottom. Plugged in my DT990/600's at home, and found the bass bloated. Just a reminder of how each component in the chain has an impact on the sound. I'll give the 23's more time with the DT990/600's - but my first impression is that the JJ's are a better match for these headphones.


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> Damn it. Swapped the tubes around and the static has now transferred to the left channel. Gonna pull the trigger on some Cryo 23's but I'll be pissed if this is a common occurrence.




Sounds like you got some bum tubes man sucks


----------



## MrScary

blankdisc said:


> Huge thanks to MrScary. finally received 6N23P-EV from Russia yesterday. i just ordered a regular pair from eBay. nothing fancy here. The first impression is just great. When i changed from stock JJ to Schiit's own 6N1P, the shrink of sound stage is the only thing i didn't like, which is the reason why Jason didn't go for it. 6N23P not only brings back the sound stage of JJ, but also retains the smooth mids and musicality of 6N1P. I am think that i am done tube rolling with Lyr.




Awesome man I knew you would like them Im still breaking in my multi cryo tubes and waiting on my 60's pair of vintage 23's from ebay


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I think that a majority of users have been trying out the 23's my question is why Schiit chooses to use the JJ's they are not very good sounding Jason. I know you are not in the business of tube rolling but the JJ's are a bad choice even at the price point of the Lyr..
> On another note I'm having a blast rolling tubes through the Lyr and thanks for a great product.


 


  Good question! 
   
  Our answer starts with our philosophy: we bring extremely high-value products to you though good engineering, simple construction, and complete standardization. We don't offer color options, tube options, tweak options, etc--because we'd have to charge about 1.5-2x the cost to consult with everyone about what the best configuration is.
   
  For complete standardization, we need (a) new production tubes, (b) reliable, consistent supply, and (c) reasonable cost. The two tubes that meet this criteria for a product at Lyr's price point are the EH 6922 and the JJ E88CC. We ended up choosing the JJ E88CCs because, in our testing and listening, they were more consistent than the EH tubes, and they sounded very good for their price point, when matched with a modern curve tracer. 
   
  Are there better tubes out there? Sure. Are the JJs garbage? Not at all. 
   
  Raise the price to, say, $949, and lots of other options open up. But think most people would like a $449 Lyr rather than a $949 Lyr. 
   
  Speaking of which, perhaps a better question may be why JJs are used in amps that cost 6-8x as much as ours.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Good question!
> 
> Our answer starts with our philosophy: we bring extremely high-value products to you though good engineering, simple construction, and complete standardization. We don't offer color options, tube options, tweak options, etc--because we'd have to charge about 1.5-2x the cost to consult with everyone about what the best configuration is.
> 
> ...


 
  Jason,
   
  Thanks makes sense


----------



## blankdisc

Totally agree. I am now super happy with my HE-6 + Lyr with 6N23P. I def wouldn't have bought it if it was $949 or even $749. 
  
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Good question!
> 
> Our answer starts with our philosophy: we bring extremely high-value products to you though good engineering, simple construction, and complete standardization. We don't offer color options, tube options, tweak options, etc--because we'd have to charge about 1.5-2x the cost to consult with everyone about what the best configuration is.
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

blankdisc said:


> Totally agree. I am now super happy with my HE-6 + Lyr with 6N23P. I def wouldn't have bought it if it was $949 or even $749.




I just hope the DAC's are more than simple construction everyone is expecting an epiphany from Schiit.


----------



## MrScary

Well I got my 60's vintage 6N23P's in today. My initial impressions are they sound like 6N23P's the only difference I could detect was a slightly warmer top end but all in all they are 6N23P's less sound stage than my multi cryo 6N23P's not by much hahaha but I guess I have to somehow validate spending the extra money for the cryo's


----------



## jamato8

I am looking forward to trying one of my favorites, the Seimens 6922.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I am looking forward to trying one of my favorites, the Seimens 6922.




Yeah let me know how that goes.. I bought some Valvo CCA's Im hoping they sound good will be interesting


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I am looking forward to trying one of my favorites, the Seimens 6922.




Did you get them off of ebay?


----------



## Bobcow

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Is their actually much difference between a matched pair and non-matched pair?


----------



## MikoLayer

> Originally Posted by *MrScary* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Well I got the Muti-Cryo treated 6N23P's this evening I'm running them now and I hate to say it but I was wrong the cryo treatment does do something to the tube. The bass is more defined and warmer the mids are smooth and the treble is not sibilant as is a tad with non- broken in 6N23P's... They sound allot more like the Amperex White Label's. I did a right left test of the 80's 6N23p's against the Cryo treated tubes and the Cryo's do sound better.. So whatever they are doing the cryo treatment is a sell for me. Im going to burn them in for several days to see if the sound changes but I am impressed. Just not for the prices that they charge..


 
   


mrscary said:


> Well I got my 60's vintage 6N23P's in today. My initial impressions are they sound like 6N23P's the only difference I could detect was a slightly warmer top end but all in all they are 6N23P's less sound stage than my multi cryo 6N23P's not by much hahaha but I guess I have to somehow validate spending the extra money for the cryo's


 
   
  So which is it, after all the burn-in you had on your multi-cryos do you feek it's the soundstage that sets them apart, or tonality? Both? If it's just the soundstage and by not much at that I think I could live with cheaper pairs from ebay... But otherwise less sibilance and more warmth/smoothness, I do like


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikolayer said:


> So which is it, after all the burn-in you had on your multi-cryos do you feek it's the soundstage that sets them apart, or tonality? Both? If it's just the soundstage and by not much at that I think I could live with cheaper pairs from ebay... But otherwise less sibilance and more warmth/smoothness, I do like


 
  My recommedation is the cyro set they are new number one you never know what you are getting from ebay I have already been burned this last week on there.. The major difference is sound stage the cyro's have a much larger sound stage to them but I don't even have 100 hours on the cyro's yet
  so my final feeling on them is not complete... IMHO if you can find a good matched set on ebay for 30.00 go for it if you dont want to wait forever to get them from Russia just spend the 50.00 and get the cryo set.. All in all the soundstage is what sets them apart they are not that different in tonality


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> My recommedation is the cyro set they are new number one you never know what you are getting from ebay I have already been burned this last week on there.. The major difference is sound stage the cyro's have a much larger sound stage to them but I don't even have 100 hours on the cyro's yet
> so my final feeling on them is not complete... IMHO if you can find a good matched set on ebay for 30.00 go for it if you dont want to wait forever to get them from Russia just spend the 50.00 and get the cryo set.. All in all the soundstage is what sets them apart they are not that different in tonality


 
  How big is your sample set that allows you to come to these conclusions?


----------



## MrScary

kwkarth said:


> How big is your sample set that allows you to come to these conclusions?




Funny your a funny guy


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It was a serious question, with tongue in cheek.  Your experience with extremely small sample sizes may or may not translate to someone else trying the same type of tube in their rigs.  Just wanted to wake people up so they realize that their expectations may differ from their realizations.


----------



## MrScary

kwkarth said:


> It was a serious question, with tongue in cheek.  Your experience with extremely small sample sizes may or may not translate to someone else trying the same type of tube in their rigs.  Just wanted to wake people up so they realize that their expectations may differ from their realizations.




quite a few people have used and tried the 23's in this forum and have been happy with them. If we have some charts for voting and comparison here on Head-fi that would be nice then we could get some statistics. I think that everyone in a tube rolling thread knows that they may or may not
get the expected results just like in any of the forums here on Head-fi. I understand your point that's why we have been tube rolling and giving our feedback.


----------



## WNBC

Good points made by posters.  The cryoset 6N23Ps are now my preferred tubes for the Lyr but had I not burned them in for 100 hours I would have said the Gold Lions were my favorite.  To give the 6N1P sold by Schiit some credit, I didn't burn them for 100 hours before concluding they were not as good as the Gold Lions or 6N23Ps, which just sounded better right from the start.  Maybe the 6N1P deserve a 2nd chance when I can just run them for a long time.  
   
  Anywho, keep those tube suggestions coming.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Good points made by posters.  The cryoset 6N23Ps are now my preferred tubes for the Lyr but had I not burned them in for 100 hours I would have said the Gold Lions were my favorite.  To give the 6N1P sold by Schiit some credit, I didn't burn them for 100 hours before concluding they were not as good as the Gold Lions or 6N23Ps, which just sounded better right from the start.  Maybe the 6N1P deserve a 2nd chance when I can just run them for a long time.
> 
> Anywho, keep those tube suggestions coming.


 

 I have some Valvo CCA very rare coming as well as some Seimens tubes probably be a couple weeks I know Jamato8 already has his so we should get his feelings on the tubes soon as he gets his Lyr..


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> How big is your sample set that allows you to come to these conclusions?


 
  1226...give or take 1220...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The biggest problem with basing decisions on large sample sets is logistics.  I ain't that rich.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Also, in a case where the results will be subjective and each of our ears (and sound preferences) differ, rolling a large sample set may be moot if your ears and tastes prefer the sound quality generated by Golden Lions, while I might roll every brand of tube I can get and decide that the Cryo 6N23Ps are the best.  My "results" wouldn't necessarily apply to you.  All we can really do is post our impressions and, if they are strong enough, possibly encourage someone else to give them a try.  I do agree that making definitive statements on whether one tube is better than all others is probably not "proper", but that hasn't stopped the commercial polling agencies from using 1000-person polls to make definitive statements for the entire population of the country.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I agree that a large sample set would apply if you were trying to obtain objective results based on measurable characteristics of a tubes output.  However, I don't think it is improper to say that "for me, 6N23P tubes are the best sounding tubes I have tried"...and then fully expect somebody to post right back and say "that's because you haven't tried XXXXX tubes yet".
   
  I guess what I am trying to say is "Ya go with what ya know", then wait for someone here to introduce you to something "better"...like MrScary did for me and the 6N23Ps (I was formally sold on the Gold Lion sound).  I think the poll idea for this thread is great.  It won't tell what tube is best, but will give an idea what the majority of participants are listening to.
   
  All in Fun
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> 1226...give or take 1220...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah where are the polls on Head-fi? you want stats we can give them to you


----------



## ZorgDK

Yeah let's get a "best Lyr tube" poll going. If it's possible?


----------



## Wedge

LiqTenExp and I settled on the 60's Mullard CV2492, as the best tubes out of the bunch I have.
   
  Which are: Telefunken E88C, Siemens E88C, Amperex Orange Label A-Frame, Amperex Bugle Boy.  I came to my conclusion with a few hours of listening and the Lyr.  LiqTenExp, actually owns the Lyr I don't.  So take that for what its worth.


----------



## ZorgDK

Have anyone tried both the 60's Mullard CV2492 and the super cryo 6N23P?


----------



## Wedge

No, just the ones I listed and the stock JJs.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


zorgdk said:


> Yeah let's get a "best Lyr tube" poll going. If it's possible?


 
  Yeah!  Then we can call it:
 "Schiit Lyr - The tube *polling* thread" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

Very fitting for your 666th post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Yeah!  Then we can call it:
> "Schiit Lyr - The tube *polling* thread"
> 
> ...


----------



## DemonicLemming

I've been looking for the Mullards, but they seem to be pretty rare, and the few sets I have seen are going for way more than I'd pay.
  
  Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> Have anyone tried both the 60's Mullard CV2492 and the super cryo 6N23P?


----------



## Rope

An Lyr tube polling thread would be fun, but the variables are virtually limitless, the only constant being the Lyr.
   
  I've rolled in the stock JJ's, of course, Gold Lions, 6N1P (two different sets), and currently the 6N23P's.  At this juncture I'd have to give the edge to the latter, although I will admit the burn-in time has not been equitable for all sets.
   
  I've also looked for the Mullards, holy snikes, not only are they rare, a bank robbery may be in order.
   
   
  P.S. MrScary, you're starting to scare me with your tube rolling OCD.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> An Lyr tube polling thread would be fun, but the variables are virtually limitless, the only constant being the Lyr.
> 
> I've rolled in the stock JJ's, of course, Gold Lions, 6N1P (two different sets), and currently the 6N23P's.  At this juncture I'd have to give the edge to the latter, although I will admit the burn-in time has not been equitable for all sets.
> 
> ...




Yeah I paid over a 100.00 each for the two sets I have coming in next the seimens and the Valvo CA's after that its the Mullards.


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> rope said:
> 
> 
> > An Lyr tube polling thread would be fun, but the variables are virtually limitless, the only constant being the Lyr.
> ...




See now you made me go look for the Mullards the OCD is kicking in


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Put your hands up, and back away from the tubes!


----------



## ZorgDK

Hopefully next week I'll be getting some 80's plain 6N23P's that MrScary sold me. I'll report back what I think of them.     I  think I will say I don't like them just to go against the flock.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   ​
  Quote: 





wedge said:


> No, just the ones I listed and the stock JJs.


 
   
  Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> I've been looking for the Mullards, but they seem to be pretty rare, and the few sets I have seen are going for way more than I'd pay.


 

 Ok thanks.
   


  Quote: 





rope said:


> P.S. MrScary, you're starting to scare me with your tube rolling OCD.


 
  You know what they say - The tube is always greener on the other side...


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Put your hands up, and back away from the tubes!




hahahahaha


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

6N23P, how much is it, and what does it do compared to the 6N1P tubes? I'm not planning on rolling any more, but when my 61NP wears out (and I use my Lyr a LOOOOOOT), I may go this route out of curiosity.


----------



## MrScary

mad lust envy said:


> 6N23P, how much is it, and what does it do compared to the 6N1P tubes? I'm not planning on rolling any more, but when my 61NP wears out (and I use my Lyr a LOOOOOOT), I may go this route out of curiosity.




They just sound better IMHO Im sure others will concur


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That doesn't help me whatsoever. How? There are trade offs to doing certain things better. Like controlling the bass = less bass quantity, bringing out the mids = lessening either bass or treble, etc.


----------



## MrScary

mad lust envy said:


> That doesn't help me whatsoever. How? There are trade offs to doing certain things better. Like controlling the bass = less bass quantity, bringing out the mids = lessening either bass or treble, etc.




Sorry thats the only answer I can give you all I can say is the 6N1p's from Schiit are Schiit the 23's are what the majority of users are switching too for good reason better all around sound..


----------



## jamato8

Listening to the 1964 6N23P, nice. Since I have listened to the amp now for maybe 45 minutes I have no real opinion on tubes but the stock sound pretty good. The amp needs to burn in and I think this is some of what people are attributing initial tube sound to. After that it is all tube if it is new tubes added to the sound. This is one heavy person. I have to open it up and look around. I hope that doesn't void the warranty. :^0
   
  I just popped in some RCA 6BZ7's for fun (they preceded the 6DJ8 and were used in TV's a lot and are cheap, a couple of dollars). 
   
  I just got my adapter made yesterday for the 1/4 to the balanced plugs on my phones so everything worked out. I will listen to the gold grid 6N1P's but really everything needs to settle in. 
   
  All the tubes and amp have to burn in but the 6N1P gold grid sound very nice with blues.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Listening to the 1964 6N23P, nice. Since I have listened to the amp now for maybe 45 minutes I have no real opinion on tubes but the stock sound pretty good. The amp needs to burn in and I think this is some of what people are attributing initial tube sound to. After that it is all tube if it is new tubes added to the sound. This is one heavy person. I have to open it up and look around. I hope that doesn't void the warranty. :^0
> 
> I just popped in some RCA 6BZ7's for fun (they preceded the 6DJ8 and were used in TV's a lot and are cheap, a couple of dollars).
> 
> ...




How do the seimens sound?


----------



## jamato8

I haven't tried the Seimens yet. I am enjoying the gold grid 6N1P, very nice. I am using the HE-6 which sound very full now. I can see that the case of the Lyr is a heat sink. This isn't uncommon but this sucker does get warm.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Warm? I find it that at it's hottest, I can't even pick it up, lol. I actually like the heat... it's toasty. XD


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I haven't tried the Seimens yet. I am enjoying the gold grid 6N1P, very nice. I am using the HE-6 which sound very full now. I can see that the case of the Lyr is a heat sink. This isn't uncommon but this sucker does get warm.




Yeah especially with the 6N23P's you can fry your eggs on it


----------



## sferic

OK I'm happy with the Gold Lions, an easily obtainable, reasonably priced upgrade. But these 6N23P's of which you speak, have had some pretty impressive endorsements - can you recommend a source?


----------



## MrScary

You can get them from ebay or from cryo they cryo freeze the tubes its suppose to give a larger soundstage that which I can vouch for now that they are breaking in. I would recommend the cryo's number one you will get them quicker than from bulgaria and they cryo treat them
Just to give you my thoughts I sold my Gold Lions after I got the 23's. Hope this helps

here are some links for ya


http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=6N23p&osCsid=9b11e7202386f3e9ae28427b9ae31e3b&x=0&y=0



http://cgi.ebay.com/TESTED-MATCHED-PAIR-6N23P-NOS-70s-TUBES-6DJ8-E88CC-/350462264417?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item51992dc461


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn you guys for making me consider them already.... @_@

Self control.... sigh.


----------



## MrScary

mad lust envy said:


> Damn you guys for making me consider them already.... @_@
> 
> Self control.... sigh.




You would love the 23's MLE they are worth it and I ran the Schiit 6N1p's for quite some time


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I will get them eventually. Just not right now.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Siemens
> How do the seimens sound?


 
  Very detailed, you can hear a person breathing if recorded right. The amp really needs to burn in though. Caps settle etc. but the Seimens are nice, musical, as I remember them. A slight upper mid tilt, right now, which means nothing as they are NOS and need time. I wish I had my hands on my stock of 6DJ8 types. I have everything one could want in storage.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> You can get them from ebay or from cryo they cryo freeze the tubes its suppose to give a larger soundstage that which I can vouch for now that they are breaking in. I would recommend the cryo's number one you will get them quicker than from bulgaria and they cryo treat them
> Just to give you my thoughts I sold my Gold Lions after I got the 23's. Hope this helps
> 
> here are some links for ya
> ...


 
  So there's no confusion, the tubes offered by Cryoset were manufactured in the Reflector Saratov plant, the eBay tubes are Voshkod, manufactured in Kaloga City Russia.  Both military spec but made in two different places.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Very detailed, you can hear a person breathing if recorded right. The amp really needs to burn in though. Caps settle etc. but the Seimens are nice, musical, as I remember them. A slight upper mid tilt, right now, which means nothing as they are NOS and need time. I wish I had my hands on my stock of 6DJ8 types. I have everything one could want in storage.




Cool thanks mine should be here in a couple weeks..


----------



## ZorgDK

Got my 80's comie 6N23P's which were already burned in. Thumbs up, same forward sound as the 6N1P, but more smooth, more body in the sound. And more bass. Vocals are not as thin sounding as with the 6N1P. Great success.


----------



## jamato8

I am enjoying the 6N1P EV gold grid. Nice tube even though it is from the 80's and I normally don't like the 80's 6N1P. The Lyr still needs to burn in though.


----------



## jamato8

Right now my favorite tube is the. . . . 6BZ7, which costs a few dollars. I have always liked the tube and only tried it because I got a bunch of NOS RCA's in a tube lot I bought on ebay years ago. I wasn't familiar with it and just set them aside, about 20 or 25. Then I read up on them and popped them into a dac I built that can use 6DJ8 types and wow. It is throwing a large soundstage and everything is separated extremely well with no smearing or bloating of the imaging. 
   
  I am using the LCD-2 and enjoying them with the Lyr.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Right now my favorite tube is the. . . . 6BZ7, which costs a few dollars. I have always liked the tube and only tried it because I got a bunch of NOS RCA's in a tube lot I bought on ebay years ago. I wasn't familiar with it and just set them aside, about 20 or 25. Then I read up on them and popped them into a dac I built that can use 6DJ8 types and wow. It is throwing a large soundstage and everything is separated extremely well with no smearing or bloating of the imaging.
> 
> I am using the LCD-2 and enjoying them with the Lyr.




Cool another new set of tubes to try


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Right now my favorite tube is the. . . . 6BZ7, which costs a few dollars. I have always liked the tube and only tried it because I got a bunch of NOS RCA's in a tube lot I bought on ebay years ago. I wasn't familiar with it and just set them aside, about 20 or 25. Then I read up on them and popped them into a dac I built that can use 6DJ8 types and wow. It is throwing a large soundstage and everything is separated extremely well with no smearing or bloating of the imaging.
> 
> I am using the LCD-2 and enjoying them with the Lyr.






mrscary said:


> jamato8 said:
> 
> 
> > Right now my favorite tube is the. . . . 6BZ7, which costs a few dollars. I have always liked the tube and only tried it because I got a bunch of NOS RCA's in a tube lot I bought on ebay years ago. I wasn't familiar with it and just set them aside, about 20 or 25. Then I read up on them and popped them into a dac I built that can use 6DJ8 types and wow. It is throwing a large soundstage and everything is separated extremely well with no smearing or bloating of the imaging.
> ...




Soon as you said with LCD-2's I got giddy I don't have the HE6's yet that's next month this is one of the cheaper rolls.. Thanks


----------



## jamato8

Oh wow, the 6BZ7 and LCD-2 sound really good with classical. The Bach Brandenburg Concertos are fine. The violins are sweet and there is very good imaging. A huge stage and this is with the LCD-2. Very 3D. I do pose the caveat though that my amp is not burned in and what I hear now could change tomorrow to a degree.


----------



## olor1n

Who bought the matched RCA 6BZ7 pair on ebay I was about to pull the trigger on?


----------



## ZorgDK

I've' been listening some more to the 6N23P's.. They really rock and should be mandatory for all Lyr owners.
   
  Jamato, how do you like those 6BZ7's with your HE-6? It's good to hear it's a cheap tube. 
   
  MrScary, you'll love the HE-6 I'm sure. I wish I could hear the LCD-2 sometime. 
   
  I wonder if ebay will have any tubes left when we're done with this thread...


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> Who bought the matched RCA 6BZ7 pair on ebay I was about to pull the trigger on?




Me


----------



## DemonicLemming

The 6BZ7s and 6N23P tubes want me to buy them, but I already have six sets of tubes for the Lyr and my Russian 6N1Ps are still due in...don't know that I can really justify more when both the Amperex and Brimar tubes sound spot-on for me.


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> The 6BZ7s and 6N23P tubes want me to buy them, but I already have six sets of tubes for the Lyr and my Russian 6N1Ps are still due in...don't know that I can really justify more when both the Amperex and Brimar tubes sound spot-on for me.




Do it man do it ya never know if another tube will be a new Gspot hahahaha


----------



## ZorgDK

[size=medium]

  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





   
  The 6N1P's runs hotter than the 6N23P's though.  
   ​[/size]


----------



## MikoLayer

Sounds mighty interesting, how would you compare the 6BZ7s to the 6N23Ps you have tried? TIA!
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Listening to the 1964 6N23P, nice. Since I have listened to the amp now for maybe 45 minutes I have no real opinion on tubes but the stock sound pretty good. The amp needs to burn in and I think this is some of what people are attributing initial tube sound to. After that it is all tube if it is new tubes added to the sound. This is one heavy person. I have to open it up and look around. I hope that doesn't void the warranty. :^0
> 
> I just popped in some RCA 6BZ7's for fun (they preceded the 6DJ8 and were used in TV's a lot and are cheap, a couple of dollars).
> 
> ...


----------



## jamato8

The 6BZ7 is a little clearer opening to the music but again, the amp needs time so this is all preliminary. The bass is better than what I thought it would be with the 6BZ7. I thought it might be not as strong but it is and well defined. I don't even have 24 hours on the amp yet and many NOS tubes to roll and they need time to settle. The 6BQ7A/6BZ7 are very detailed with a slightly tilt up in the upper mids.
   
  I would not run out and buy a lot of tubes until the dust settles but even if you are not crazy about the 6BZ7, they don't cost very much unlike some of the NOS.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> The 6BZ7 is a little clearer opening to the music but again, the amp needs time so this is all preliminary. The bass is better than what I thought it would be with the 6BZ7. I thought it might be not as strong but it is and well defined. I don't even have 24 hours on the amp yet and many NOS tubes to roll and they need time to settle. The 6BQ7A/6BZ7 are very detailed with a slightly tilt up in the upper mids.
> 
> I would not run out and buy a lot of tubes until the dust settles but even if you are not crazy about the 6BZ7, they don't cost very much unlike some of the NOS.




Yeah like some of the Seimens and Valvo's my pocketbook is burning again.. the 6BZ7's were cheap bought a NOS matched set for like 7.99 and another set for like 5.00


----------



## Kremer930

Thanks for adding another tube option to the list Jamato.  This thread is fun but is rapidly building up my tube inventory.  I have two versions of Russian 6N1P's on their way as well as 6N23's.  I thought about a set of Brimars as they looked cheap...until,likely someone here, also thought they looked cheap.  
   
  I wonder if any of the new Schiit products on the drawing board will use any of these tubes? 
   
  The good thing is that my Lyr will not run out of tubes for a long time.  At 5000 hours per tube pair....  I can survive 17.25 years....assuming that I never turn the amp off.


----------



## HK_sends

Was that through e-bay?
   
  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Was that through e-bay?
> 
> -HK sends




Yeah through ebay USA sellers so I should get the RCA's quicly the Seimens and the Valvos's were over sea buys so they will take a couple weeks to get here


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> hk_sends said:
> 
> 
> > Was that through e-bay?
> ...




Heres a nice NOS set grab them before I do



http://cgi.ebay.com/6BZ7-6BQ7A-VINTAGE-ELECTRONICS-NOS-TUBES-TUNERS-RCA-/290565678434?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a7106562


----------



## HK_sends

If I can make it home from work soon, I will.  Our filters here at work don't let me on e-bay.
  
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jamato8

Looks like they are gone. You can get these from on line tube sellers that test them and they are cheaper. I wouldn't pay more than a few dollars each.


----------



## TruBrew

I just ordered a set of GE 6BZ7's for $6 shipped. They aren't matched, but they are $6. Also I recieved my 6N1P-EV's today. They will be in my Lyr until the Z7's arrive. They will all likely be replaced soon after with a set of 23's


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I just ordered a set of GE 6BZ7's for $6 shipped. They aren't matched, but they are $6.


 
   
  Now you are in the ball park! :^)


----------



## TruBrew

So the tubes I ordered are GE, jameto has the RCA's. These Amperex are also rather cheap. I was going to go for RCA but could not find a pair so I went with the GE. Is there a general consensus that certain companies are better than others, or is it impossible to know based on years and each tube being different? I wont feel bad if someone says the Amperex are likely better, I just want to have a baseline to go by in the future. What is the hierarchy of tube companies?
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Amperex-6BZ7-6BQ7A-/250819627704?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a6603cab8#ht_500wt_922


----------



## jamato8

The Amperex are most likely rebranded US tubes.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Looks like they are gone. You can get these from on line tube sellers that test them and they are cheaper. I wouldn't pay more than a few dollars each.


 
  Oh well. no problem.  I will look at the tube selling sites as well.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Well, I managed to find an inexpensive pair of 6BZ7s.  Looking forward to trying them out.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Well, I managed to find an inexpensive pair of 6BZ7s.  Looking forward to trying them out.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...




Mine will be here Thursday yeah I'm interested to see what they sound like with my setup..


----------



## DemonicLemming

I actually picked up a set of Brimar tubes a little over a week ago, and they're one of my two favorite sets for the Lyr.  However, Skylab did mention pages back that they might not actually be Brimar tubes, but simply rebranded from another manufacturer.  Either way, I think they sound great.
   
  It would be interesting to see a Schiit amp using some EL84 or 12AX7 tubes - they seem very popular.  As long as they stay away from the $400/per 300B tubes...
  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Thanks for adding another tube option to the list Jamato.  This thread is fun but is rapidly building up my tube inventory.  I have two versions of Russian 6N1P's on their way as well as 6N23's.  I thought about a set of Brimars as they looked cheap...until,likely someone here, also thought they looked cheap.
> 
> I wonder if any of the new Schiit products on the drawing board will use any of these tubes?
> 
> The good thing is that my Lyr will not run out of tubes for a long time.  At 5000 hours per tube pair....  I can survive 17.25 years....assuming that I never turn the amp off.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> \It would be interesting to see a Schiit amp using some ... 12AX7 tubes - they seem very popular.


 

  Google "mike moffat 6dj8" to see why that ain't gonna happen.


----------



## TruBrew

Do 6EJ7's work. I am having a hard time determining what tubes I can buy. It is 9 pin, but I don't know if there is more to it than that.


----------



## jamato8

There are many 9 pin tubes but only a few of those designs will work. I am not familiar with the tube you mention. I would use the 6DJ8 and tubes of that family, and the 6N23P, 6N1P and the 6BZ7 and 6BQ7. You can't just plug in a 9 pin tube as the electrical properties can be and most likely are, totally different. Also some tubes have a totally different pin out for the sections of the tubes.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Would it be related to his introducing the tube years back in a Theta pre-amp?
   
  Hm...along those lines, any thoughts of a tube-based DAC?
  
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Google "mike moffat 6dj8" to see why that ain't gonna happen.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> There are many 9 pin tubes but only a few of those designs will work. I am not familiar with the tube you mention. I would use the 6DJ8 and tubes of that family, and the 6N23P, 6N1P and the 6BZ7 and 6BQ7. You can't just plug in a 9 pin tube as the electrical properties can be and most likely are, totally different. Also some tubes have a totally different pin out for the sections of the tubes.


 

 I've seen matched RCA's listed on ebay but on the box one is labelled 6BQ7 and the other 6BQ7A. I'm assuming these are the same thing, but perhaps made at different times. Ideally, how closely do these tubes have to match (manufacture date, labeling etc)?


----------



## MrScary

I went back and put the Amperex white label Holland tubes back in the Lyr and instead of my typical quick judgement I have been listening to them for a day and they have some nice qualities to them they are much warmer than the 6N23P's and have as much bass the mids are the same but the one thing that shines is a slightly holographic sound that the Amperex give on most music. 192-24 Orchestra music is just beautiful with the Amperex, Jazz is nice as well as the blues... Rock is about the same as the 23's


----------



## ZorgDK

I bet the Amperex would be good for binaural recordings then.


----------



## MrScary

zorgdk said:


> I bet the Amperex would be good for binaural recordings then.




Maybe when I get my semiens and Valvo's in that will be the real test they are suppose to really be holographic. The Amperex just sound good all around have a nice airy sound I sold my orange label Amperex PQ's on ebay they were not too good in the LyR IMHO.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote:


demoniclemming said:


> Would it be related to his introducing the tube years back in a Theta pre-amp?
> 
> Hm...along those lines, any thoughts of a tube-based DAC?


 


  Yep. While I'm more tube-agnostic, Mike has a loathing of the 12AX7. "Only fit for table radios," I believe was his quote. He introduced the hi-fi world to the 6DJ8 in the Theta preamp (not Theta Digital, we're talking paleolithic history here.) I mean, the earth cooled, and there was Mike, making hifi gear. Or so it seems.
   
  Now, a 6SN7--Mike gets *very* excited about that tube. Not that it's going to drop into a Lyr. 
   
  And yes, fair warnings above: not all 9-pin tubes have the same pinout, and dropping one of those in Lyr will not be a good day. If you're not familiar with tube-rolling, or, better, a DIYer who understands pinouts, tube types, and transconductance, I'd stick to the ones that people are using successfully.
   
  And nope, no plans for a tube DAC. For current-output DACs, tubes don't have a proper low-impedance input to drive (or, well, to be fair, their transconductance is low when compared to solid state, so the cathode is still relatively high impedance.) For voltage-output DACs, we still prefer to stay on the solid state side for summing, etc.
   
  You can expect that all our DACs will have discrete analog stages--Mike was using opamps in the Theta Gen III when I came around, and I turned him around to discrete in the Gen V with a discrete stage that measured (and listened) much better than the uber-super-duper opamps he was using at the time. That's a whole 'nother story--200 parts on a 4 x 6" teflon board with no soldermask . . .


----------



## ZorgDK

Interesting info Jason, thanks for that.


----------



## Bobcow

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Yep. While I'm more tube-agnostic, Mike has a loathing of the 12AX7. "Only fit for table radios," I believe was his quote. He introduced the hi-fi world to the 6DJ8 in the Theta preamp (not Theta Digital, we're talking paleolithic history here.) I mean, the earth cooled, and there was Mike, making hifi gear. Or so it seems.
> ...


 


  Good to hear some more info


----------



## jamato8

I am glad the Lyr went with the 6DJ8. I have built equipment to use both and one piece I built I have adjustable operating points. I has both 9 pin and octal sockets. After extensive, as in a couple of years use, listening with the best there is 6SN7's and some of the best 6DJ8 types I prefer the 6DJ8 type for what I would term as more "life" to the music. In all areas of frequency response, transparency and realistic depth and width with imaging, I find that for me, the 6DJ8 edges out the 6SN7 but I love the looks of the Tung sol round plate black glass.


----------



## sphinxvc

What about 6SN7 / 7N7 with an appropriate adapter?  I can understand if it's not officially condoned but for you DIYers or tube gurus out there, how does that sound?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

6SN7s need a ton more voltage to perform at their best--hell, they'll take a plate voltage nearly 4x that of the 6922--one of the reasons we didn't go with them. The last thing we need is *more* heat, ha!


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> What about 6SN7 / 7N7 with an appropriate adapter?  I can understand if it's not officially condoned but for you DIYers or tube gurus out there, how does that sound?


 
  I the adapter is easy to make and the 7N7 is a great sounding tube but I will take the 6DJ8. 
  Quote:


jason stoddard said:


> 6SN7s need a ton more voltage to perform at their best--hell, they'll take a plate voltage nearly 4x that of the 6922--one of the reasons we didn't go with them. The last thing we need is *more* heat, ha!


 
  Yes, and that is why I could change up the B+ and change all operating points for the tubes. I used NOS, well at the time they weren't NOS, tantalum 2 watt resistors ASC caps for the power supply. I also raise the heater 60 volts above true ground. I agree, the Lyr needs not be any hotter. I


----------



## DemonicLemming

Very cool.  Thanks for the response, Jason!
  
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Yep. While I'm more tube-agnostic, Mike has a loathing of the 12AX7. "Only fit for table radios," I believe was his quote. He introduced the hi-fi world to the 6DJ8 in the Theta preamp (not Theta Digital, we're talking paleolithic history here.) I mean, the earth cooled, and there was Mike, making hifi gear. Or so it seems.
> ...


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Yes, and that is why I could change up the B+ and change all operating points for the tubes. I used NOS, well at the time they weren't NOS, tantalum 2 watt resistors ASC caps for the power supply. I also raise the heater 60 volts above true ground. I agree, the Lyr needs not be any hotter.


 

  
  Yep, I should have been clear--that response was for people contemplating trying 6SN7 in Lyr, not your own experience with them. Lyr really is set up for 6DJ8 types, first and foremost, with enough heater current to stretch to the 6N1P. It ain't running 600V rails.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Yep, I should have been clear--that response was for people contemplating trying 6SN7 in Lyr, not your own experience with them. Lyr really is set up for 6DJ8 types, first and foremost, with enough heater current to stretch to the 6N1P. It ain't running 600V rails.


 
  And a few mods later. lol. . . . Hey it's all good. I really like the 12SN7, cheaper and very quiet. Ok, here is one for you to roll around. Battery bias. It is cheap and to my ear is better than resistor or cap and resistor. I also find it less colored than any resistor or cap. 
   
  ---------------------------
   
  Listening with the GE grey glass and they sound good to me. Very musical.


----------



## jamato8

Okay, I like the 6N1P, at least the old ones and have for a long time but yes, we know it has twice the current draw for the filaments. That the Lyr can handle this is great but of course with that added current comes heat. For long term use I don't like to keep components really hot for a long time as it leads to early failure rates of things like capacitors. You can look at curves and temperatures relating to capacitor expected life, or usefulness. The cooler the better. Anyway, even on my mono blocks that get plenty warm/hot, I use a quiet fan which is better for everything. I don't think I will use the 6N1P a great deal with the Lyr. Too much internal heat for my liking. There are plenty of good choices in tubes that have a .3 to .4 mA draw vs the .6mA of the 6N1P.


----------



## sferic

Thanks Mr. Scary, going for the cryos!


----------



## MrScary

sferic said:


> Thanks Mr. Scary, going for the cryos!




Welcome my friend


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Okay, I like the 6N1P, at least the old ones and have for a long time but yes, we know it has twice the current draw for the filaments. That the Lyr can handle this is great but of course with that added current comes heat. For long term use I don't like to keep components really hot for a long time as it leads to early failure rates of things like capacitors. You can look at curves and temperatures relating to capacitor expected life, or usefulness. The cooler the better. Anyway, even on my mono blocks that get plenty warm/hot, I use a quiet fan which is better for everything. I don't think I will use the 6N1P a great deal with the Lyr. Too much internal heat for my liking. There are plenty of good choices in tubes that have a .3 to .4 mA draw vs the .6mA of the 6N1P.




Good thinking Jamato8. I hate the 6N1P's the new ones that is.. And the vintage set I got from Russia was bad good thoughts man you know I was thinking when I was running the 6N1p that this thing is awful hot.. and as you said heat relates to failures I guess in some cases with the 5 year warranty from Schiit some would say doesn't matter but I hate to return stuff especially a heavy paperweight like the Lyr..  Think I will stay with the tamer tubes


----------



## olor1n

I bought my Lyr used and had a persistent static from one of the tubes. The seller was kind enough to send me his stock JJ's (the guy had two Lyrs). Listening to this pair now and the difference is more than apparent. Other than the static and a very subtle channel imbalance, I was quite happy with the first pair, but these JJ's are considerably better. There seems to be more air in the soundstage and the low end is noticeably less muddy... the dynamics and slam are retained but it's an overall more balanced presentation. I'm not sure if this replacement pair has clocked more hours than the first, or if what I'm hearing is the inherent variation between matched pairs, but this may very well illustrate why some have stated that the stock tubes are indeed very good. Those that were quick to dismiss the stock tubes as rubbish may have received lesser tubes or moved on too soon.


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> I bought my Lyr used and had a persistent static from one of the tubes. The seller was kind enough to send me his stock JJ's (the guy had two Lyrs). Listening to this pair now and the difference is more than apparent. Other than the static and a very subtle channel imbalance, I was quite happy with the first pair, but these JJ's are considerably better. There seems to be more air in the soundstage and the low end is noticeably less muddy... the dynamics and slam are retained but it's an overall more balanced presentation. I'm not sure if this replacement pair has clocked more hours than the first, or if what I'm hearing is the inherent variation between matched pairs, but this may very well illustrate why some have stated that the stock tubes are indeed very good. Those that were quick to dismiss the stock tubes as rubbish may have received lesser tubes or moved on too soon.




It all depends on your setup your source DAC etc. For some the stock tubes just don't have a good synergy like for me and the LCD-2's they don't sound good for others they sound ok with my HD650's they sound ok


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> And a few mods later. lol. . . . Hey it's all good. I really like the 12SN7, cheaper and very quiet. Ok, here is one for you to roll around. Battery bias. It is cheap and to my ear is better than resistor or cap and resistor. I also find it less colored than any resistor or cap.
> 
> ---------------------------
> 
> Listening with the GE grey glass and they sound good to me. Very musical.




Yeah Im re-listening to the Ge Greys now.. Since I did a tube upgrade to my DAC and got a new cable for my LCD-2's the GE Greys sound a lot better as things had gotten more resolving these tubes as you said are very musical.


----------



## DemonicLemming

There's gotta be something cosmic about it - I swapped in my GEs last night, just to change flavors from the Amperex tubes, and then I jump in here today and you two guys are back to the GEs, too.  Seems like the have a little more impact and delineate the edges of instruments and vocals a bit better than the Amperex tubes (at least, with the Blue Dragon cable on the LCD-2s).

 Now I'm thinking about picking up an Iron Lung power cable, too.  That's the evil thing about having gear that resolves so well...there's always something new to try, and it's always costs money.  So much for my, "Well, I'll just buy a Little Dot for my K702s and that should do me fine..." thoughts a couple months ago.  No race season for me this year!
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> There's gotta be something cosmic about it - I swapped in my GEs last night, just to change flavors from the Amperex tubes, and then I jump in here today and you two guys are back to the GEs, too.  Seems like the have a little more impact and delineate the edges of instruments and vocals a bit better than the Amperex tubes (at least, with the Blue Dragon cable on the LCD-2s).
> 
> Now I'm thinking about picking up an Iron Lung power cable, too.  That's the evil thing about having gear that resolves so well...there's always something new to try, and it's always costs money.  So much for my, "Well, I'll just buy a Little Dot for my K702s and that should do me fine..." thoughts a couple months ago.  No race season for me this year!




hahahah thats crazy guess we have some synergy going on in the forum hahahaha. Yeah Im really liking the GE's now I hadn't tried them since I got my norse cable and replaced the tube in my DAC what a difference.


----------



## MrScary

Yeah Im putting my Amperex white labels up for sale I have finally ruled them out as having that synergy with my equipment.


----------



## sperandeo

My 6N23P-EV Matched Pair Military Cryo arrived today. I put them in my Lyr and turned it on. I left them alone to let them bond for almost 8 hours. I have only been listening for an hour or so at low to mid volume (wife is sleeping LCD2's are like room monitors ( but I love them). My first impression with these tubes was " everything has woken up."

The Lyr is the first amp I've ever tube rolled and I can believe the difference the tubes make. The bass feels more controlled and the highs are finally getting to where I was hopping the LCD2's were when I first heard them on my iDecco. 

I will continue to listen and report back in a few day. I can already tell you they are the best tube I've tried yet. (I tried both tubes Schiit was offering)..

These Russian military cryo matched pair from 1982 seem to work nicely with the Lyr.


----------



## MrScary

sperandeo said:


> My 6N23P-EV Matched Pair Military Cryo arrived today. I put them in my Lyr and turned it on. I left them alone to let them bond for almost 8 hours. I have only been listening for an hour or so at low to mid volume (wife is sleeping LCD2's are like room monitors ( but I love them). My first impression with these tubes was " everything has woken up."
> 
> The Lyr is the first amp I've ever tube rolled and I can believe the difference the tubes make. The bass feels more controlled and the highs are finally getting to where I was hopping the LCD2's were when I first heard them on my iDecco.
> 
> ...




Yeah I think that the 23's should be a tube in any Lyr owners arsenal glad you like them, for me and the changes that I have made to my setup my go to tube right now are the GE greyglass. I have 3 different tubes coming in so who the winner will be will be interesting then I'm done tube rolling unless Jamato8 makes me burn more holes in my pocket.


----------



## jamato8

What I want is some Marconi 6BZ7's. They are often marked as RCA Canada, which was a Marconi plant in Canada and I like their tubes. Hard to find though.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> What I want is some Marconi 6BZ7's. They are often marked as RCA Canada, which was a Marconi plant in Canada and I like their tubes. Hard to find though.




I since more holes hahahaha


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> What I want is some Marconi 6BZ7's. They are often marked as RCA Canada, which was a Marconi plant in Canada and I like their tubes. Hard to find though.




Yes I see they are hard to find *sighs*


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Tiny ones since the 6BZ7 types are rather cheap.


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What have you changed that makes you love the GE greyglass at this time?
  Whats the exact tube model and number for the greyglass?


----------



## MrScary

I changed my LCD-2 cable from stock to a Norse cable and upgraded my Tube Dac with a presnave reference tube the effect was a more resolving system. The Ge is very musical as Jamato8 said and with my system it evens things out
without losing any of the elements of the 23's that I like. I still have some Vintage seimens coming in as well as a Vintage Valvo CCA so it will be interesting to see if the Ge stays my go to tube.

Actually the GE's are at times hard to find there are none on ebay at this time but you can get the GE grey glass on ALO they have them right now for I think 19.00 a piece a bit high but I paid for an extra set so I had a backup.

You may be able to find them cheaper but I was too lazy to search any more

http://aloaudio.com/general-electric-smoked-glass-6dj8-6922-tube.html


----------



## leesure

Anyone know anything about Sylvania 6BQ7A's?  I got a pair off ebay relatively inexpensively.  They're warming up now, but I was curious if anyone has experience with them already.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Do you think the Norse cable makes the LCD-2 warmer?  I tried it for a bit but thought it just made things sound a little too warm - not undetailed, but it didn't present things as spaced apart and discrete as the stock cable did.
   
  And if you decide not to keep the GEs, give me a shout, I can always use more.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I changed my LCD-2 cable from stock to a Norse cable and upgraded my Tube Dac with a prasnave reference tube the effect was a more resolving system. The Ge is very musical as Jamato8 said and with my system it evens things out
> without losing any of the elements of the 23's that I like. I still have some Vintage seimens coming in as well as a Vintage Valvo CCA so it will be interesting to see if the Ge stays my go to tube.
> 
> Actually the GE's are at times hard to find there are none on ebay at this time but you can get the GE grey glass on ALO they have them right now for I think 19.00 a piece a bit high but I paid for an extra set so I had a backup.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> Do you think the Norse cable makes the LCD-2 warmer?  I tried it for a bit but thought it just made things sound a little too warm - not undetailed, but it didn't present things as spaced apart and discrete as the stock cable did.
> 
> And if you decide not to keep the GEs, give me a shout, I can always use more.


 

 I found that both my sets of Norse cables (4c single end and 8-c balanced) gave a wider for spacious soundstage with little or no change to the tonality.


----------



## MrScary

leesure said:


> Anyone know anything about Sylvania 6BQ7A's?  I got a pair off ebay relatively inexpensively.  They're warming up now, but I was curious if anyone has experience with them already.




I dont how do they sound?


----------



## MrScary

leesure said:


> I found that both my sets of Norse cables (4c single end and 8-c balanced) gave a wider for spacious soundstage with little or no change to the tonality.




And the Norse cable for me with the LCD-2's gave more detail


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I changed my LCD-2 cable from stock to a Norse cable and upgraded my Tube Dac with a presnave reference tube the effect was a more resolving system. The Ge is very musical as Jamato8 said and with my system it evens things out
> without losing any of the elements of the 23's that I like. I still have some Vintage seimens coming in as well as a Vintage Valvo CCA so it will be interesting to see if the Ge stays my go to tube.
> 
> Actually the GE's are at times hard to find there are none on ebay at this time but you can get the GE grey glass on ALO they have them right now for I think 19.00 a piece a bit high but I paid for an extra set so I had a backup.
> ...


 
  I will be getting the Norse cable in a few days. I'll wait and see what I think about the sound with the Norse cable, the 23's, the LCD2 and my idecco (which I'm using as a pure digital source for my ipod). I love the sound with the new tubes, but I have to wait and see what happens to everything once I add the Norse cable.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Had them in for 15 minutes...Not bad right out of the box, but will wait until later to give them a proper listen once they burn in a bit.


----------



## MrScary

Well I got my Rca 6BZ7's in my first impression is as Jamato8 already said they are very clear good bass not much warmth to them but for a few bucks they sound a lot better than the New 6N1P's if I would have known about them I would have bought them over the Schiit 6N1P's not only do they sound better IMHO but they wont run your Lyr at egg frying temps and burn it up.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I changed my LCD-2 cable from stock to a Norse cable and upgraded my Tube Dac with a presnave reference tube the effect was a more resolving system. The Ge is very musical as Jamato8 said and with my system it evens things out
> without losing any of the elements of the 23's that I like. I still have some Vintage seimens coming in as well as a Vintage Valvo CCA so it will be interesting to see if the Ge stays my go to tube.
> 
> Actually the GE's are at times hard to find there are none on ebay at this time but you can get the GE grey glass on ALO they have them right now for I think 19.00 a piece a bit high but I paid for an extra set so I had a backup.
> ...


 
  As I mentioned a couple months ago, the GE 6DJ8/6922 is one of my very favorite tubes.  Ken at ALO turned me on to them.


----------



## MrScary

kwkarth said:


> As I mentioned a couple months ago, the GE 6DJ8/6822 is one of my very favorite tubes.  Ken at ALO turned me on to them.




Yeah Im really liking them with my current setup


----------



## jamato8

The GE 6DJ8 was under the radar for a long time. I used to pick them up, all I wanted, for 5 dollars and sometimes less. Nice NOS in box. Many were made, so I think the current price is high but people are getting it. The 19 dollars appears to be reasonable as I have seen them go for more on ebay, as long as they are NOS. I have many in storage, I guess I am aging them. :^) 
   
  Trying the 6N1P gold grid again. Very nice and smooth. A little less detail than some of the other tubes but rich sounding (must be the gold).


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> The GE 6DJ8 was under the radar for a long time. I used to pick them up, all I wanted, for 5 dollars and sometimes less. Nice NOS in box. Many were made, so I think the current price is high but people are getting it. The 19 dollars appears to be reasonable as I have seen them go for more on ebay, as long as they are NOS. I have many in storage, I guess I am aging them. :^)
> 
> Trying the 6N1P gold grid again. Very nice and smooth. A little less detail than some of the other tubes but rich sounding *(must be the gold). *


 

 At $1,495.00 per ounce, I concur.


----------



## sferic

My 6N23P-EV Matched Pair Military Cryo also arrived today. They were perfectly packaged in environmentally sensitive materials, with the sticker above neatly affixed to the shrink wrap.
   
  Of course, still not burnt in but it's immediate like! Very happy with these. The step up from stock JJ's to the Gold Lions was the biggest, but with these I feel like I have the high end details the GL's brought plus, the BASS is back! It's a more tubey sound but still has that discipline and quickness that the Lyr displays with all 3 tubes. Interestingly, I find the sound signature of the 3 tube sets I've tried (Stock, GL, Cryo) produces similar changes across each of the 3 phones I listen to: LCD-2, Denon 5000's, PS1000. 
   
  I'm thinking I'll stick with these and have the GL's as a backup. I think the Schiity folks that designed the Lyr knew their market, and shipped it with a competent, cost-effective, easily obtainable tube that is by no means bad, knowing we freaks would be changing them anyway. You can own this machine for a song, and it will grow with you as your budget does. (With a lot of equipment, upgrading components only reveals flaws, with the Lyr that doesn't seem to be the case at all.)
   
  Once you get into the better tubes I'm guessing it's just a matter of finding one that fits your preferences for sound signature. 
   
  P.S. No, there wasn't really a Mr. Scary sticker on there, just did the pic as a thank you for his advice & tireless contributions to this forum.


----------



## MikoLayer

well I guess I was right to wait for the dust to settle down, ended up getting the GE smoked glass instead of 6N23P-EVs. Cheaper this way too


----------



## DemonicLemming

Still great tubes...plenty of detail and euphonic to boot.
  
  Quote: 





mikolayer said:


> well I guess I was right to wait for the dust to settle down, ended up getting the GE smoked glass instead of 6N23P-EVs. Cheaper this way too


----------



## HK_sends

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!  More great tubes!!!  Just got in a pair of Raytheon Brand 6BZ7's from an Ebay seller and they sound fantastic!  Now you want me to go find some GE smoked glass? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  WHAT AM I TO DO!?!  Curse you, Red Baron and MrScary!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Well you can't say the 6BZ7 types will bankrupt you. :G) At a few dollars each and being plentiful, you will have plenty for a long time.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


jamato8 said:


> Well you can't say the 6BZ7 types will bankrupt you. :G) At a few dollars each and being plentiful, you will have plenty for a long time.


 
  True, but I just bought four of the GE Smoked Glass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I am pretty sure I'll be getting rid of a few tubes...Gold Lions anyone?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





sferic said:


> My 6N23P-EV Matched Pair Military Cryo also arrived today. They were perfectly packaged in environmentally sensitive materials, with the sticker above neatly affixed to the shrink wrap.
> 
> Of course, still not burnt in but it's immediate like! Very happy with these. The step up from stock JJ's to the Gold Lions was the biggest, but with these I feel like I have the high end details the GL's brought plus, the BASS is back! It's a more tubey sound but still has that discipline and quickness that the Lyr displays with all 3 tubes. Interestingly, I find the sound signature of the 3 tube sets I've tried (Stock, GL, Cryo) produces similar changes across each of the 3 phones I listen to: LCD-2, Denon 5000's, PS1000.
> 
> ...


 



 hahahaha thanks man Im glad you like them yeah the cryo does do something to the tubes I noticed it over the vintage 23's that I got in there was more soundstage with the cryo's thanks!


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> True, but I just bought four of the GE Smoked Glass.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  HK thats what I do I is just buy tubes and sell them off if I don't care for them. I have a pretty good ebay profile. I sold off my Gold and White Amperex they went fast. The GL's went on this forum so never worry about selling off your tubes 
 especially when you get into pricey tubes like the ones I have coming in if I don't like them just throw them back on ebay.


----------



## ZorgDK

Interesting to follow your impressions folks. It won't be long until I'll roll another set to replace my plain 80' 23's...


----------



## Kremer930

Just put my Gold lions back in. I swear the Lyr has changed character since the early days when I first put them in. They no longer have the veiled sound. Glad that I didn't sell them. Never listener to the Decemberists before but loving their sound through the Lions.


----------



## sperandeo

I have the 6N23P-EV Military Cyro's in my Lyr now and they sound fantastic with my setup. I'm always looking for a sweeter sound so I'm not sure if I should just shut-up and enjoy my music, or do I give these GE smoked glass a try. By the time I swap the tubes and compare different tube the a/b/c/d/e/ hehehe comparison is a little off. 

I have a Norse cable arriving soon. I'm going to see what happens.


----------



## MrScary

sperandeo said:


> I have the 6N23P-EV Military Cyro's in my Lyr now and they sound fantastic with my setup. I'm always looking for a sweeter sound so I'm not sure if I should just shut-up and enjoy my music, or do I give these GE smoked glass a try. By the time I swap the tubes and compare different tube the a/b/c/d/e/ hehehe comparison is a little off.
> 
> I have a Norse cable arriving soon. I'm going to see what happens.




When I got my Norse cable it brightened things up and then with my tube that I changed in my DAC I went back to the GE Greys they have a warmer sound than the 23's which balanced everything out..
I didn't care for the GE's until I made the changes just like everything in Audio one change in the link affects the outcome.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Last tubes for me for a while, really.  Just ordered a set of Raytheon 6BQ7A to play with.  Pretty cheap, so no big deal if they don't work out.
   
  So far, I'm up to: 6922 Gold Lions (sold), Voshkod 1970s 6N1P tubes (haven't had a chance to listen to), 6DJ8 GE gray glass, 6922 orange Amperex PQ, E88CC Brimar, and now the Raytheon 6BQ7A.  I may be missing a set somewhere in there.  Do need to pick up a set of 6N23P tubes at some point, too.
   
  I think I've spent as much on tubes as I did on the amp itself...


----------



## leesure

Initial impressions of the Sylvania 6BQ7a's are that they are punchy, dynamic and a little bright. Definitely no veil. A little raw, but fun. 

Waiting on the Valhalla tubes to compare.


----------



## MrScary

leesure said:


> Initial impressions of the Sylvania 6BQ7a's are that they are punchy, dynamic and a little bright. Definitely no veil. A little raw, but fun.
> 
> Waiting on the Valhalla tubes to compare.




YOu should have gotten some vintage 6N1p's off of ebay they sound nice. The Schiit 6N1p's they sound not only raw but like Schiit IMHO.


----------



## HK_sends

I'm really impressed with the 6BZ7's.  They have a bit of a tube sound but are also detailed and have a wonderful dynamic range.  The GE Grey Glass will have to really shine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 to upstage these for my setup.
  I do want to thank MrScary (and others) again for introducing me to some of these amazing tubes.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

You have to get some hours on the tubes. That is true of most any of them. The 6BZ7 will smooth out but retain the open and dynamic sound, IMO. I also find them fairly neutral. My preference is the black plate vs the grey plate.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> You have to get some hours on the tubes. That is true of most any of them. The 6BZ7 will smooth out but retain the open and dynamic sound, IMO. I also find them fairly neutral. My preference is the black plate vs the grey plate.


 
  Well, I got at least eight hours last night as the music lulled me to sleep. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Well, I got at least eight hours last night as the music lulled me to sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I am finding the RCA 6BZ7 black plate I am using right now are opening up very well. I am getting 3D type of imaging and very good layering and transparency. Buena Vista Social Club, cut 1, is beautifully laid out before me. I would like a slightly less steel quality to the guitar but this can also be an artifact of the HE-500. I will have to listen again with the LCD-2. Interesting. The HE-500 layer better than the LCD-2. There is more 3D with the HE-500. I hadn't noticed this so much before. I also note though that many phones need a little bit of warm up, just like speakers. I know Dennis Had, who used to run Cary Audio, never did any real listening with speakers until they had been on with music for at least an hour.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I am finding the RCA 6BZ7 black plate I am using right now are opening up very well. I am getting 3D type of imaging and very good layering and transparency. Buena Vista Social Club, cut 1, is beautifully laid out before me. I would like a slightly less steel quality to the guitar but this can also be an artifact of the HE-500. I will have to listen again with the LCD-2. Interesting. The HE-500 layer better than the LCD-2. There is more 3D with the HE-500. I hadn't noticed this so much before. I also note though that many phones need a little bit of warm up, just like speakers. I know Dennis Had, who used to run Cary Audio, never did any real listening with speakers until they had been on with music for at least an hour.




hahahaha you made me put them back in. I put the RCA 6BZ7 back in to listen to some Dave Matthews and I am now noticing what you are saying there is a 3d imaging to these tubes that I missed on my fast first listen. I'm enjoying listening to them think I will let them burn in a bit I wish they were a bit warmer but I still get a bit of warmth from my tube dac.


----------



## olor1n

I changed the signature of my source by swapping out the more neutral earth hdam in my dac's output with the warmer moon hdam. With the stock JJ's it's incredibly smooth but also a more forward and textured presentation. Midrange is more energetic but the bass may be a tad smeared and micro-details less apparent compared to the more clinical earth sound.
   
  From the accounts here, it seems the RCA's may be what I need for the slight refinement I'm after in this very musical signature I greatly prefer. It's great they're cheap but overseas shipping is a killer and a lot of ebay listings don't look very enticing. I don't really understand the test results (although most of them seem to show mismatches and degraded values). Would it be more prudent to risk buying the cheaper ones than to pull the trigger on the more expensive listings? I'm starting to think that the only way to determine their quality (regardless of cost) is to slot them into the Lyr and find out for myself.
   
  I also want to try some Amperex Orange Globes, Bugle Boys and GE smoked glass. Can anyone suggest a reliable source where I can kill all these birds with the same stone?


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> I changed the signature of my source by swapping out the more neutral earth hdam in my dac's output with the warmer moon hdam. With the stock JJ's it's incredibly smooth but also a more forward and textured presentation. Midrange is more energetic but the bass may be a tad smeared and micro-details less apparent compared to the more clinical earth sound.
> 
> From the accounts here, it seems the RCA's may be what I need for the slight refinement I'm after in this very musical signature I greatly prefer. It's great they're cheap but overseas shipping is a killer and a lot of ebay listings don't look very enticing. I don't really understand the test results (although most of them seem to show mismatches and degraded values). Would it be more prudent to risk buying the cheaper ones than to pull the trigger on the more expensive listings? I'm starting to think that the only way to determine their quality (regardless of cost) is to slot them into the Lyr and find out for myself.
> 
> I also want to try some Amperex Orange Globes, Bugle Boys and GE smoked glass. Can anyone suggest a reliable source where I can kill all these birds with the same stone?




I doubt you find all of those in one location good luck. In regards to the RCA's I just bought two sets one 9.00 NOS matched set and a 5.00 NOS set that wasn't tested off ebay.. The RCA's that I bought came from NJ so the wait wasn't horrendous like it is me waiting on the Seimens CCA's and Valvo CCA's
For a musical presentation the GE Grey glass is what you are looking for you can get them from ALO the link is up in the thread about a page or so back.


----------



## olor1n

ALO are asking $38 to ship overseas. I want to try a variety of tubes so I want to order them together if possible.


----------



## HK_sends

OK, silly question.  I can't find any RCA Black Plate tubes, but I found a couple GE Canada Black Plate tubes.  Are they worth pursuing?
   
  Thanks,
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> OK, silly question.  I can't find any RCA Black Plate tubes, but I found a couple GE Canada Black Plate tubes.  Are they worth pursuing?
> 
> Thanks,
> -HK sends




Where did you find the GE Canada's? Jamato8 knows which ones are the right canada tubes I think they are on his list of tubes to get


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I just pulled the trigger on them through ebay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200568543476&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I just pulled the trigger on them through ebay...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200568543476&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
> 
> Cheers!
> ...





More tubes the better I think those are the ones Jamato8 was talking about


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


mrscary said:


> More tubes the better I think those are the ones Jamato8 was talking about


 

 The Marconi 6BZ7? Those are RCA Canada, not GE.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, RCA in Canada was made by Marconi, normally. The GE could be rebranded or not. I will have some real RCA Marconi from a friend coming and can compare to the images.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


jamato8 said:


> Yes, RCA in Canada was made by Marconi, normally. The GE could be rebranded or not. I will have some real RCA Marconi from a friend coming and can compare to the images.


 
   
  Lucky you!  If you run upon an extra pair, I will happily buy them off you.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Yes, RCA in Canada was made by Marconi, normally. The GE could be rebranded or not. I will have some real RCA Marconi from a friend coming and can compare to the images.


 
  Oh, well...at least they were cheap!
   
  -HK sends


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


jamato8 said:


> Yes, RCA in Canada was made by Marconi, normally. The GE could be rebranded or not. I will have some real RCA Marconi from a friend coming and can compare to the images.


 

 Would I be able to use 6BQ7 in the Lyr? I think I might've found some RCA Canada 6BQ7, but I don't know if these are the Marconi ones.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Would I be able to use 6BQ7 in the Lyr? I think I might've found some RCA Canada 6BQ7, but I don't know if these are the Marconi ones.


 
  Yes all the family of 6BZ7, 6BQ7A and one other can be used. Normally the Canada RCA is Marconi. In later years anything is possible but most tubes of this family are good sounding, IMO, and they are cheap enough that if you don't like them you aren't out much.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Yes all the family of 6BZ7, 6BQ7A and one other can be used. Normally the Canada RCA is Marconi. In later years anything is possible but most tubes of this family are good sounding, IMO, and they are cheap enough that if you don't like them you aren't out much.




I have left my RCA 6BZ7 in the LyR as well burned them in over the weekend I really am enjoying the sound kinda funny that such an inexpensive tube can sound so good.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> jamato8 said:
> ...


 
  Supply and demand. I have used them off and on for a long time. I just hope they don't get popular for obvious reasons. The GE grey glass 6DJ8 I used to buy for 5 dollars because it was under the radar. Even a number of 6SN7's were cheap because it was made in some of the highest numbers of any tube. Again, plenty of supply to meet the demand but now of course the price has bone up on all of them. I would buy the 6SU7 Tungsol black glass for 8 to 10 dollars but I knew they were worth more.  I would hate to see a climbing of the price happen to the 6BZ7 family of tubes. It would take some of the fun out of it.


----------



## olor1n

How important is it to buy matched pairs? What about tested NOS batches listed together but not specified as matched? Will same type and brand suffice?


----------



## Bobcow

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> How important is it to buy matched pairs? What about tested NOS batches listed together but not specified as matched? Will same type and brand suffice?


 

  
  I am wondering the same thing. Using 6N23P-EV's at the moment, they weren't specified as matched but sound fine to me. If it isn't a matched pair does that just mean that the tubes can have different gain or what?


----------



## 169300

Is there a big difference between 6BQ7A and ECC88/6922? There's such a difference in price it's hard to decide.


----------



## MrScary

hmjburner said:


> Is there a big difference between 6BQ7A and ECC88/6922? There's such a difference in price it's hard to decide.




Depends on what type of sound you are looking for look back in the thread for some feelings on the sound of some tubes. . For me myself I have bought and sold tubes to try and find that sound Im looking for the RCA 6BQ7A has a nice sound to it has some 3d imaging going on. You can't go wrong picking up a pair of 6BQ7A's they only cost a few dollars. If you don't like them ohh well.


----------



## DemonicLemming

I think it was said a couple pages back (can't keep the threads straight now) that since the Lyr was self-biasing, as long as the tubes were of the same type, everything should be good; I would imagine them being from the same manufacturer would also make a difference, but I'd think keeping both tubes of the same make (6922/6922, etc) would be the biggest thing.
  
  Quote: 





bobcow said:


> I am wondering the same thing. Using 6N23P-EV's at the moment, they weren't specified as matched but sound fine to me. If it isn't a matched pair does that just mean that the tubes can have different gain or what?


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> I think it was said a couple pages back (can't keep the threads straight now) that since the Lyr was self-biasing, as long as the tubes were of the same type, everything should be good; I would imagine them being from the same manufacturer would also make a difference, but I'd think keeping both tubes of the same make (6922/6922, etc) would be the biggest thing.




Heres a good article explaining the misconception's of matched tubes 

http://reviews.ebay.com/Buying-Matched-Tubes-6L6GC-EL34-5881_W0QQugidZ10000000007134035


----------



## TruBrew

thanks for the article.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The article is okay but is misleading also. The Hickok 439C is nice, and I have two of them, but a number of the Hickok testers are the same circuitry and do the same basic test, and a number of them for less money. Also the Hickoks don't test power tubes, the EL34's, 6550, Kt88 and so on, at working voltage. For the small tubes like the 6DJ8, 12AX7 and so on, they basically do. Also the life test can be done with most any tester by reducing the filament voltage to the next lower level. Of note is that many cheap testers apply voltage in such a way that they can do damage to a tube. This would be many of the cheap testers discussed in the article. 
   
  Comparing the Siemens 6922 (silver shield, the later version compared to the earlier grey shield)  to the 6BZ7 now.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Transconductance matching is important on the Lyr, since it has a single voltage gain stage and no overall feedback. This means that if the tubes aren't closely matched, there may be gain differences between channels. We use a modern curve tracer that shows transconductance at our actual operating point.
   
  This is the instrument we use: Longhin CT-01. It's a great machine, and even better if you happen to speak Italian (they're made in Italy.) http://www.audiopassword.com/tube_instruments.htm


----------



## jamato8

I am using the JH13's with the Lyr now. They just felt underpowered before. Just needed that extra bass Kick. So is there any hum, no not really. With no music there is a trace of sound but that means nothing since these are IEM's and the slight sound I hear isn't even apparent with the music playing and this amp obviously is meant for monitors requiring just a wee bit more power. It does work great to test for microphonic tubes though. :^) 
   
  Oh and the sound? Pretty good. Plenty of detail and a sound quality that falls in line with the rest of the phones but I don't have quite the fast transient attacks as with the larger phones, could be the Seimens tubes so maybe I will try the 6BZ7's.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Transconductance matching is important on the Lyr, since it has a single voltage gain stage and no overall feedback. This means that if the tubes aren't closely matched, there may be gain differences between channels. We use a modern curve tracer that shows transconductance at our actual operating point.
> 
> This is the instrument we use: Longhin CT-01. It's a great machine, and even better if you happen to speak Italian (they're made in Italy.) http://www.audiopassword.com/tube_instruments.htm


 
   
  Thanks for the reply Jason. Any thoughts on Schiit sourcing the well regarded tubes and selling them through your site?


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> The article is okay but is misleading also. The Hickok 439C is nice, and I have two of them, but a number of the Hickok testers are the same circuitry and do the same basic test, and a number of them for less money. Also the Hickoks don't test power tubes, the EL34's, 6550, Kt88 and so on, at working voltage. For the small tubes like the 6DJ8, 12AX7 and so on, they basically do. Also the life test can be done with most any tester by reducing the filament voltage to the next lower level. Of note is that many cheap testers apply voltage in such a way that they can do damage to a tube. This would be many of the cheap testers discussed in the article.
> 
> Comparing the Siemens 6922 (silver shield, the later version compared to the earlier grey shield)  to the 6BZ7 now.




Well I tried


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well I tried


 

 Yes you did and a fine job you did! :^)


----------



## MrScary

I found some RCA Canada 6BZ7's on the ebay iltaly site hahaha I just hope they are really the canadian ones. Still waiting on my Valvo's and Seimens CCA's. I got my backup set of GE greyglass from ALO today and one of the tubes is bad
it has a screeching sound that remains when I change channels. Sucks, but they did give me the aluminum blocks for my LCD-2's which was cool of them. More steam punk look.. hahahaha


----------



## dpump

Jason,
   
  My 1972 Sams Tube Substitution Handbook lists the 6ES8, 6FW8, and 6KN8 as replacements for the 6DJ8. Any thoughts as to whether it is ok to try any of these?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





dpump said:


> Jason,
> 
> My 1972 Sams Tube Substitution Handbook lists the 6ES8, 6FW8, and 6KN8 as replacements for the 6DJ8. Any thoughts as to whether it is ok to try any of these?


 


  No experience with them--but if they're the same pinout they will plug in and bias up.


----------



## ZorgDK

I'm looking at  6BZ7 tubes at ebay. Can anyone please help with a link to some that looks good. Maybe from a seller you think is reliable?


----------



## MrScary

zorgdk said:


> I'm looking at  6BZ7 tubes at ebay. Can anyone please help with a link to some that looks good. Maybe from a seller you think is reliable?




The only one I saw for the RCA's is this one none of them have been tested but you get like 7 tubes so you should get a few good ones out of the lot. None of the RCA's have been tested that are on ebay at the moment for what the testing is worth

http://cgi.ebay.com/RCA-NOS-6BQ7A-6BZ7-6BS8-Tube-Lot-Vacuum-Radio-Vintage-7-/170643238244?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27bb212d64


----------



## maverickronin

I've been following this thread but I don't really think I've seen anyone address this question.
   
  Are there any tubes that turn the Lyr into a "wire with gain"?
   
  I may be in the market for a wire with lots of gain soon and the Lyr seems to be offer the best bang for the buck.  I'm a little concerned about the tubes though.  I've already got some tube gear and the "flavor" it adds seems to be hit or miss for my tastes, great with some things and a disappointment with others.


----------



## DemonicLemming

I was actually pondering picking those up, but I went with these guys instead: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=290565679624&si=i8X1HoAprjzmpUPv%252B0J6WOMoLuk%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=290565678140&si=i8X1HoAprjzmpUPv%252B0J6WOMoLuk%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT, and http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230618211125&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT. 
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> I was actually pondering picking those up, but I went with these guys instead: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=290565679624&si=i8X1HoAprjzmpUPv%252B0J6WOMoLuk%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=290565678140&si=i8X1HoAprjzmpUPv%252B0J6WOMoLuk%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT, and http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230618211125&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT.




Yeah I got the NOS tubes when I ordered I don't remember through whom now that ebay doesn't let you see the won list which is ridiculous.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think if you go under the "Purchased" tab, it'll allow you to view purchases up to a year back (might be more), although I think the description gets deleted after a certain amount of time.
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> I've been following this thread but I don't really think I've seen anyone address this question.
> 
> Are there any tubes that turn the Lyr into a "wire with gain"?
> 
> I may be in the market for a wire with lots of gain soon and the Lyr seems to be offer the best bang for the buck.  I'm a little concerned about the tubes though.  I've already got some tube gear and the "flavor" it adds seems to be hit or miss for my tastes, great with some things and a disappointment with others.


 

 I'm hesitant to say anything here, since my experience with amps isn't huge, but the Lyr doesn't seem to add much at all to the music, in terms of "tube-ality".  I know people like to go on about the smoothness of tubes and all that, and while I find the Lyr musical, it certainly doesn't have any oversaturation for me (at least, with my LCD-2s and the majority of my tubes).  It's not as hard-edged as the solid state amps I've heard, but (subjective to my ears) the Lyr veers very close to neutral for me.  I listen to a huge variety of music, and there's nothing I've found that doesn't play well with the Lyr.
   
  The tube swapping I've done to date tends to have much more of an effect on overall impact (the better tubes give a more delineated "punch outline" of different instruments), soundstage changes, overall instrument separation, and clearing up highs.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


maverickronin said:


> I've been following this thread but I don't really think I've seen anyone address this question.
> 
> Are there any tubes that turn the Lyr into a "wire with gain"?
> 
> I may be in the market for a wire with lots of gain soon and the Lyr seems to be offer the best bang for the buck.  I'm a little concerned about the tubes though.  I've already got some tube gear and the "flavor" it adds seems to be hit or miss for my tastes, great with some things and a disappointment with others.


 

 x2 - I'm interested in this as well.


----------



## 169300

I ordered some RCA 6BQ7As and am currently working out a deal on some Amperex Orange Globes. Although, I should probably be more impatient about the Lyr finally coming tomorrow.


----------



## MrScary

hmjburner said:


> I ordered some RCA 6BQ7As and am currently working out a deal on some Amperex Orange Globes. Although, I should probably be more impatient about the Lyr finally coming tomorrow.




You will love the LyR the orange globes are ok tubes you should love the RCA's they have somewhat of a 3d sound stage to them.. Have fun


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> I think if you go under the "Purchased" tab, it'll allow you to view purchases up to a year back (might be more), although I think the description gets deleted after a certain amount of time.
> 
> I'm hesitant to say anything here, since my experience with amps isn't huge, but the Lyr doesn't seem to add much at all to the music, in terms of "tube-ality".  I know people like to go on about the smoothness of tubes and all that, and while I find the Lyr musical, it certainly doesn't have any oversaturation for me (at least, with my LCD-2s and the majority of my tubes).  It's not as hard-edged as the solid state amps I've heard, but (subjective to my ears) the Lyr veers very close to neutral for me.  I listen to a huge variety of music, and there's nothing I've found that doesn't play well with the Lyr.
> 
> The tube swapping I've done to date tends to have much more of an effect on overall impact (the better tubes give a more delineated "punch outline" of different instruments), soundstage changes, overall instrument separation, and clearing up highs.




Have you tried the GE grey glass? IMHO they have a very musical sound to them I know others have the same sentiment.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Yep...they're good, but just a little too thin for me.  Very nice top end and imaging, but the mids are a little too lean for a lot of my music.
   
  I keep coming back to the Brimar tubes...makes me wish I had enough money to buy a set of Mullards, too.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Have you tried the GE grey glass? IMHO they have a very musical sound to them I know others have the same sentiment.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *DemonicLemming* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm hesitant to say anything here, since my experience with amps isn't huge, but the Lyr doesn't seem to add much at all to the music, in terms of "tube-ality".  I know people like to go on about the smoothness of tubes and all that, and while I find the Lyr musical, it certainly doesn't have any oversaturation for me (at least, with my LCD-2s and the majority of my tubes).  It's not as hard-edged as the solid state amps I've heard, but (subjective to my ears) the Lyr veers very close to neutral for me.  I listen to a huge variety of music, and there's nothing I've found that doesn't play well with the Lyr.
> 
> The tube swapping I've done to date tends to have much more of an effect on overall impact (the better tubes give a more delineated "punch outline" of different instruments), soundstage changes, overall instrument separation, and clearing up highs.


 

 What I'm worried about is the fact that it apparently changes so much with the tubes.  Their aren't that many different "flavors" of dead flat FR and inaudible distortion.


----------



## MrScary

maverickronin said:


> What I'm worried about is the fact that it apparently changes so much with the tubes.  Their aren't that many different "flavors" of dead flat FR and inaudible distortion.




I don't know I do know that I just tube roll. I have several sets coming in to try out, expensive ones ouch! that burned my pocketbook again. I don't understand the distortion that you speak of. Please explain


----------



## DemonicLemming

Honestly, a lot of the tube changes are very low-level - a tweak here and there, but nothing that drastically (or even moderately) changes the overall sound.  Listening to some Nightwish - which I've seen in concert - with the Lyr and LCD-2 is very close to what I heard in person standing in front of the stage.
  
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> What I'm worried about is the fact that it apparently changes so much with the tubes.  Their aren't that many different "flavors" of dead flat FR and inaudible distortion.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote:


mrscary said:


> I don't know I do know that I just tube roll I have several sets coming in to try out expensive ones ouch that burned my pocketbook again. I don't understand the distortion that you speak of. Please explain


 


  If a pair of tubes sound different then _at least_ one of them has to adding something to the input signal that wasn't there originally, i.e. distortion.  Its possible for the distortion to be so low its completely inaudible which is usually called "transparent" and that's what I'm looking for.  It wouldn't be a "wire with gain" otherwise.


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> Honestly, a lot of the tube changes are very low-level - a tweak here and there, but nothing that drastically (or even moderately) changes the overall sound.  Listening to some Nightwish - which I've seen in concert - with the Lyr and LCD-2 is very close to what I heard in person standing in front of the stage.




I humbly disagree I have tried now about 10 sets of tubes and the difference between lets say a 6N1p and the GE Greyglass or the RCA's is pretty drastic IMHO, now saying that everyone has a different setup so the changes may not be as drastic for some.


----------



## mhamel

Just came across these if anyone's interested:
   
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=6DJ8+Mullard&_sacat=0&_odkw=E88CC+British&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313#http://cgi.ebay.com/2-x-Mullard-UK-6DJ8-ECC88-double-triode-valves-/380342081387?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item588e27976b&vil=1
   
   
They're used, but at that price, may be worth trying out.
   
  Ok, sorry.. scratch that... even though I've already got a box of various 6922-types to play with, I couldn't resist and bought them.
   
      -Mike


----------



## MrScary

mhamel said:


> Just came across these if anyone's interested:
> 
> http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=6DJ8+Mullard&_sacat=0&_odkw=E88CC+British&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313#http://cgi.ebay.com/2-x-Mullard-UK-6DJ8-ECC88-double-triode-valves-/380342081387?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item588e27976b&vil=1
> 
> ...




Well you go dog!! hahaha


----------



## DemonicLemming

Right but even between all the various tubes, you still have the same base sound signature of the Lyr; the tubes just enhance certain aspects of it.  Compared to the stock tubes yeah, there's a big difference with nice NOS tubes, but once I started hopping between various NOS tubes, things settled down into more minute changes.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> Right but even between all the various tubes, you still have the same base sound signature of the Lyr; the tubes just enhance certain aspects of it.  Compared to the stock tubes yeah, there's a big difference with nice NOS tubes, but once I started hopping between various NOS tubes, things settled down into more minute changes.




Yeah but that's why you tube roll is for those subtle changes that makes your audio chain complete for you


----------



## Volts

Would like to ask if the Schiit Lyr  or Asgard would be more suited with the HD800?  
  I am looking to get a more dynamic sound on the HD800 and yet retain the soundstage.
  Does the Schiit Lyr give more emphasis on the mids for the HD800? I have seen
  many comments it goes well with the Lcd2 so would like some opinions with the HD800.


----------



## MrScary

volts said:


> Would like to ask if the Schiit Lyr  or Asgard would be more suited with the HD800?
> I am looking to get a more dynamic sound on the HD800 and yet retain the soundstage.
> Does the Schiit Lyr give more emphasis on the mids for the HD800? I have seen
> many comments it goes well with the Lcd2 so would like some opinions with the HD800.




Depends on the tubes you run in it out of the box the stock tubes do not have good mids (Lyr) But I have never tried the Lyr with the HD800's. The Gold Lions do have good mids many people like these tubes they are a bit expensive about 100.00.
As far as the Asgard never heard it


----------



## MacedonianHero

mrscary said:


> volts said:
> 
> 
> > Would like to ask if the Schiit Lyr  or Asgard would be more suited with the HD800?
> ...




I'd recommend checking out the 6moons review of the Lyr. They were very positive about the Lyr/HD800 combo. I think they are a great match too FWIW.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> I've been following this thread but I don't really think I've seen anyone address this question.
> 
> Are there any tubes that turn the Lyr into a "wire with gain"?
> 
> I may be in the market for a wire with lots of gain soon and the Lyr seems to be offer the best bang for the buck.  I'm a little concerned about the tubes though.  I've already got some tube gear and the "flavor" it adds seems to be hit or miss for my tastes, great with some things and a disappointment with others.


 
  IMHO, I find this to be basically the case with the Lyr and its stock tubes.  Some folks here appear to have ears equivalent to an Owl's in resolution but to my mere human ears, I find the Lyr very neutral and transparent.


----------



## MrScary

usaudio said:


> IMHO, I find this to be basically the case with the Lyr and its stock tubes.  Some folks here appear to have ears equivalent to an Owl's in resolution but to my mere human ears, I find the Lyr very neutral and transparent.




I think it depends on the phones you are using if I slap on my old HD650's then I can't tell the difference between switching tubes near as much as I can with the LCD-2's. But given that any tube that is listed as an alternative in this thread is an improvement over the stock JJ's.No the JJ's are not horrible just close to it.


----------



## jamato8

As the Lyr has broken in I find it easier to tell the difference between tubes. Right now I am listening to some nice 1969 6N23P. They are immediate in sound, meaning a little closer and the soundfield is not as large but the tone and dynamics is very enjoyable.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> As the Lyr has broken in I find it easier to tell the difference between tubes. Right now I am listening to some nice 1969 6N23P. They are immediate in sound, meaning a little closer and the soundfield is not as large but the tone and dynamics is very enjoyable.




hahaha thats funny Im listening to my 60's 6N23p's as well I have a slight sibilance going on with the RCA's and heavy metal that I can't seem to shake accept to switch tubes.


----------



## jamato8

Mental, very mental. 
   
  The 6N23P's are warmer than the 6BZ7's. I find the 6B's to be a little more 3D though. That is the fun of tubes. I would love to have a Lyr with my Sylvania balloon mesh plates from 1931. The best tube I have ever heard  but they just wouldn't quite work. I have around 12 NOS pairs of these. Insanely hard to find in NOS now but I am well stocked. I even have some Tung sol engraved base from the early 30's. All of the Sylvanias are engraved base. I probably have around 40 NOS in 127's but that is another story.


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Quote:


demoniclemming said:


> I was actually pondering picking those up, but I went with these guys instead: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=290565679624&si=i8X1HoAprjzmpUPv%252B0J6WOMoLuk%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=290565678140&si=i8X1HoAprjzmpUPv%252B0J6WOMoLuk%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT, and http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230618211125&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT.


 
   
  Cheers thanks for the links. I've made an offer to the seller on these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230618211125&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT.&clk_rvr_id=234955140292&afsrc=1#ht_1864wt_1100


----------



## jamato8

I wouldn't pay any more than 5 dollars a each and they can be found for less but still two tubes for 10 dollars and 4 dollars shipping isn't bad. 
   
  Wow, I am really enjoying the 6N23P's with some remastered and very good Elton John. Great depth and separation and plenty of dynamics and spatial information. Very fun.


----------



## Mikha

What recommendation will be on tubes with Lyr for the Hifiman HE-4? I want more dynamics, mids to be a little more forward than with default HE-4 signature, good impact, and a liquid highs(maybe just not harsh). Thanks.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





mikha said:


> What recommendation will be on tubes with Lyr for the Hifiman HE-4? I want more dynamics, mids to be a little more forward than with default HE-4 signature, good impact, and a liquid highs(maybe just not harsh). Thanks.


 


  LOL...you're not asking TOO much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'd suggest buying HE-500's.


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





mikha said:


> What recommendation will be on tubes with Lyr for the Hifiman HE-4? I want more dynamics, mids to be a little more forward than with default HE-4 signature, good impact, and a liquid highs(maybe just not harsh). Thanks.


 
   
 [size=medium]I've only tried 6N1P and 6N23P but I think one of these will help with at least bringing the mids more forward on the HE-4. I like 6N23P the best with the HE-6, those tubes gives drums excellent impact.​[/size]


----------



## WNBC

I can learn from you guys on how to barter.  I paid the $7.90 per tube last week for the same ones on Ebay that ZorgDK is waiting to get for $5 or so.  Mainly because I didn't want to wait for a response and I was eager to try these out this upcoming holiday weekend.
   
  Jamato8, I see you have some amazing headphones in your system:  HE-6, HE-500, LCD-2, HD-650, etc and the expensive Whiplash Twag.  Do you think the manufacturers of those headphones and cables are charging a bit more than they are worth by a given percentage whether it's 5%, 10%, 15%, 30%, etc.  But you are definitely less forgiving for the Ebay seller who has to pay fees to paypal/Ebay.  Seems like you wouldn't pay $6 for a tube you consider to be worth $5.  I understand your principle of not over paying but it's at the low-end rather than for high-end gear.  I guess we have no power in negotiating price for headphones so the only power we have is to lower demand (which is not going to happen because we like our hifi equipment).
   
  Is there a good guide or website for the price of NOS tubes?  I doubt it because NOS inventory is so scattered among sellers.  For photography, I usually go to KEH to see what the fair used price for camera equipment in various conditions.  I take that KEH price and maybe deduct 10-20% when I go to Ebay or Craigslist to search for the same item.  
   
  I may have paid $1-3 more than I should have for the GE 6BZ7 which is no biggie but for higher-end tubes seems like the price is reflective of the demand and not many opportunities to use a "best offer" approach. 
   
   
   
   

  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I wouldn't pay any more than 5 dollars a each and they can be found for less but still two tubes for 10 dollars and 4 dollars shipping isn't bad.
> 
> Wow, I am really enjoying the 6N23P's with some remastered and very good Elton John. Great depth and separation and plenty of dynamics and spatial information. Very fun.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I wouldn't pay any more than 5 dollars a each and they can be found for less but still two tubes for 10 dollars and 4 dollars shipping isn't bad.
> 
> Wow, I am really enjoying the 6N23P's with some remastered and very good Elton John. Great depth and separation and plenty of dynamics and spatial information. Very fun.




hahaha now I remebmer why I like the 23's so much same here got rid of my sibilance on some heavy metal that I was listening to


----------



## WNBC

MrScary, seems like you've tried everything from the cheap to expensive.  Out of curiosity, have tried any of the Mullards and how do they hold up against the under $20 set of tubes.   I have some Grey Glass and GE 6BZ7 tubes on the way.  Having a lot of fun trying out these affordable tubes but always thinking the high-end NOS tubes would be just be super amazing.  I don't have any friends with hifi equipment so forget about hearing expensive tubes (Mullard, Amperex PQ, etc.) to get a feel for them prior to buying.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> MrScary, seems like you've tried everything from the cheap to expensive.  Out of curiosity, have tried any of the Mullards and how do they hold up against the under $20 set of tubes.   I have some Grey Glass and GE 6BZ7 tubes on the way.  Having a lot of fun trying out these affordable tubes but always thinking the high-end NOS tubes would be just be super amazing.  I don't have any friends with hifi equipment so forget about hearing expensive tubes (Mullard, Amperex PQ, etc.) to get a feel for them prior to buying.




Well Jamato8 has more experience with tubes. I haven't rolled the Mullards in my Lyr yet but have tried the White label Amperex and Gold label Amperex which there are many variants I did not care for those two they went right back on ebay.
I have some expensive Seimens CCA's and Phillips Valvo CCA's coming in soon so I should be able to give you a run down of those two. I have a mullard Au7 that is in my tube DAC right now and it sounds real nice. Ask Jamato8 what he thinks of the Mullards. 
I know he has tried them in different equipment.


----------



## LiqTenExp

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread#post_7410856
   

   
  These are by far the best tube I've found out of the 4 I have tried.  Blind tests were done between myself and forum user Wedge.  We could always pick them out when doing L and R channel testing.  They just stand out of the crowd and once you go CV2492 you can't go back!


----------



## MrScary

Who makes the CV2492 sounds interesting


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> ... But given that any tube that is listed as an alternative in this thread is an improvement over the stock JJ's.No the JJ's are not horrible just close to it.


 
  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I don't find them horrible at all with my LCD-2's.  I just find it surprising that both Schiit (Lyr) and Cavalli (Liquid Fire) would release their amps with stock tubes that are close to horrible.  The Cavalli in particular is getting rave reviews with its stock JJ's - which, as far as I can tell, are identical to the ones in the Lyr.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Who makes the CV2492 sounds interesting


 
  Mullard.


----------



## MrScary

usaudio said:


> Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I don't find them horrible at all with my LCD-2's.  I just find it surprising that both Schiit (Lyr) and Cavalli (Liquid Fire) would release their amps with stock tubes that are close to horrible.  The Cavalli in particular is getting rave reviews with its stock JJ's - which, as far as I can tell, are identical to the ones in the Lyr.




OK Horrible is harsh they just do not do the Lyr justice is a better term to use. If you like the JJ's all the power to you. Tube amps have a wonderful attribute the ability to tune the sound to ones liking and for me that does not include the JJ's. Many others feel the same way on this thread so its not some epihany.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Mullard.




Looks like Brimar also


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> IMHO, I find this to be basically the case with the Lyr and its stock tubes.  Some folks here appear to have ears equivalent to an Owl's in resolution but to my mere human ears, I find the Lyr very neutral and transparent.


 


  Cool.  Thanks.


----------



## mhamel

I don't have a pair to try in the Lyr yet (on the lookout), but a really nice tube that I've used in other gear is an RCA 6DJ8 from Great Britain, made by Mullard.   I picked up a single tube last year for $20 and loved the sound.  A bit warm, full, great lows, smooth mids and highs.  I had picked up a cheap Bravo amp on eBay to play around with, modded the heck out of it, and with that 6DJ8 in it, was pretty amazed at just how good it sounded.
   
  I've also ordered a pair of  Matsushita/National PCC88 tubes from Upscale Audio to try out, not the cheapest, but not very expensive, either.
   
     -Mike


----------



## MrScary

mhamel said:


> I don't have a pair to try in the Lyr yet (on the lookout), but a really nice tube that I've used in other gear is an RCA 6DJ8 from Great Britain, made by Mullard.   I picked up a single tube last year for $20 and loved the sound.  A bit warm, full, great lows, smooth mids and highs.  I had picked up a cheap Bravo amp on eBay to play around with, modded the heck out of it, and with that 6DJ8 in it, was pretty amazed at just how good it sounded.
> 
> I've also ordered a pair of  Matsushita/National PCC88 tubes from Upscale Audio to try out, not the cheapest, but not very expensive, either.
> 
> -Mike




Cool more tubes to play with let us know how they sound I have to block ebay I think I want to buy buy buy hahahaha


----------



## MrScary

Well I searched the world for over a week and found two sets of RCA Canadian 6BQ7's if they do not like make me dance around in circles I'm going to 
burrow like a mole into Jamato8's tube storage and have my way {{Laughs}}


----------



## Rope

Do yourself a favor before you hunt for a pair of Mullard CV 2492's, rob a bank, or at least a liquor store.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Do yourself a favor before you hunt for a pair of Mullard CV 2492's, rob a bank, or at least a liquor store.




hahahaha sadly many tubes are becoming antiques almost impossible to find


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> rope said:
> 
> 
> > Do yourself a favor before you hunt for a pair of Mullard CV 2492's, rob a bank, or at least a liquor store.
> ...


----------



## Frank I

For any one interested the tubemonger has Mullard 2492 for 50.00 tube


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





rope said:


> Do yourself a favor before you hunt for a pair of Mullard CV 2492's, rob a bank, or at least a liquor store.


 

 Do you have any idea if CV2493 is just as good?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> Do you have any idea if CV2493 is just as good?


 

 Yes - they are not different.


----------



## LiqTenExp

the ones I listened to are the early 60's models without the dimpled getter.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/45#post_7425984
   
  check that post out for the comparison Wedge and I did.


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes - they are not different.


 

 Thanks, I've got another one - Do you think the Mullard and Brimar CV2492 are equal in sound quality?


----------



## Rope

The lower priced Mullard's are either used or have no label.
   
Tubemonger Mullard CV 2492


----------



## Wedge

You can probably also buy the Mullard 6DJ8 from the 60's which are probably cheaper as well.  The ones on tube monger are a later generation than I had, which LiqTenExp is now in possesion of.


----------



## LiqTenExp

Cold dead hands. Cold. Dead. Hands.

Thats what it would take for him to take them back


----------



## MrScary

wedge said:


> You can probably also buy the Mullard 6DJ8 from the 60's which are probably cheaper as well.  The ones on tube monger are a later generation than I had, which LiqTenExp is now in possesion of.




The Older tubes are cheaper? really


----------



## WNBC

*End of the roll or rolling start?*
   
  1.  Cryoset 6N23P-EV ($50/pair) --- 100 hours+ burn-in --- best one thus far in my set-up
  2.  Genalex Gold Lions ($100/pair) --- 100 hours+ burn-in
  3.  Schiit stock 6N1P ($20/pair) --- need more burning hours before final conclusion
  4.  Schiit stock JJ E88CC (came w/ Lyr) --- 100 hours+ burn-in
  5.  GE 6DJ8 smoke glass ($38/pair) --- on way from ALO
  6.  GE 6BZ7 ($15/pair) --- on the way from Ebay seller
  7.  Mullard CV2492 ($125/pair) --- on the way from Tubemonger
   
  Decided to splurge on the Mullards tonight to end the roll.  Should be an interesting tube battle this upcoming week.  I think I can say I'm done buying tubes especially if I keep them all.


----------



## Kremer930

Why stop now? You are only $100 off the price of the Lyr. 

Thanks for the list. Are they in any kind of order or just as they came to mind. 

My tubes must be in the process of being carried by mule from Russia. I only have stock, Schiit 6N1P and the Gold Lions and so far as much as I like the mids of the lions I prefer the bass of the Schiit 6N1P's. 

If I hadn't spent my toy money on a set of JH16 iems then Scarey would have certainly tempted me into many more tubes. 

Good work!!


----------



## WNBC

Tell me about it   I pondered this at the start, go for the Mullards or try a bunch other tubes that I knew would cost as much as the Mullards.  However, I'm kind of thinking I'll keep them all for use down the road.
   
  No order to the list (yet). 
   
  I threw in the Lions tonight just for the heck of it and to make the Cryoset 23p's jealous.  The Lions do seem to bring out the mids, noticeable in the reggae I'm playing (Groundation).
   
  Tubes are my little, mental roadblocks to stop me from thinking about the the HE-500 or LCD-2.  

  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Why stop now? You are only $100 off the price of the Lyr.
> 
> Thanks for the list. Are they in any kind of order or just as they came to mind.
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> *End of the roll or rolling start?*
> 
> 1.  Cryoset 6N23P-EV ($50/pair) --- 100 hours+ burn-in --- best one thus far in my set-up
> 2.  Genalex Gold Lions ($100/pair) --- 100 hours+ burn-in
> ...




hope your GE grey glass come in better shape than mine did from ALO one of the tubes I got whined like a siren hahahaha It was a backup set that I ordered now I have to RMA them
I'm interested in how the Mullards sound hopefully they will be worth it ..


----------



## Wedge

I have said in previous posts the CV2492, LiqTenExp are 60's with the halo getter, I have a couple of pair of 60's 6DJ8s that also have the halo getter I got for cheaper than the CV2492 can be had.  I never listened to the 70's ones from Tubemonger so I can only say I have not been disappointed by a Mullard tube, but you never know.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ZorgDK

Rolling rolling rolling... 
   
  Ok, I've got a set of GE NOS 6BZ7 inbound and I'm bidding on a set of Brimar military CV2492 with gold pins. 
   
  Curious that you say you prefer the bass in the Schiit 6N1P, Kremer90. To my ears the bass is better in the JJ's and 6N23P's.


----------



## olor1n

My Cryoset 6N23P's have only been in for an hour so there's still plenty of time for the sound to evolve, but the most immediate impression is of a less smeared, compressed presentation compared to the stock tubes. Bass seems more controlled and the overall sound is more balanced, but it may have less slam. It's actually very similar in signature to the Audio-GD Fun's ss amp section.
   
  Someone needs to do an outline of the general sound signature of all these tubes (with the stock JJ's as the benchmark). It'd be a great service to those unwilling to get caught up in tube rolling lottery.


----------



## Kremer930

I haven't put the stock tubes back in for ages. May have to try them again since the Lyr is well burned in now. Scary doesn't like the Schiit 6N1P's much either but in my combo with a DAC magic and silver plated copper interconnects and my HE6 they sound great.


----------



## DemonicLemming

It would be interesting to see a full list compiled from everyone who has gotten tubes to swap into the Lyr, and what their favorite is (and why).  Granted, some of these tubes are either hard to get, very expensive, or both, but an "All-Options List" might be helpful for people who only want to buy one set of tubes to swap.  I'll list mine off and keep WNBC's list quoted with his preferred tube bolded, and if anyone wants to add, we can get a compiled list rolling, I guess.
  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Someone needs to do an outline of the general sound signature of all these tubes (with the stock JJ's as the benchmark). It'd be a great service to those unwilling to get caught up in tube rolling lottery.


 
   


> *WNBC*:
> 
> *1.  6N23P-EV ($50/pair, Cryoset)*
> 2.  Genalex Gold Lions ($100/pair)
> ...


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


olor1n said:


> My Cryoset 6N23P's have only been in for an hour so there's still plenty of time for the sound to evolve, but the most immediate impression is of a less smeared, compressed presentation compared to the stock tubes. Bass seems more controlled and the overall sound is more balanced, but it may have less slam. It's actually very similar in signature to the Audio-GD Fun's ss amp section.
> 
> Someone needs to do an outline of the general sound signature of all these tubes (with the stock JJ's as the benchmark). It'd be a great service to those unwilling to get caught up in tube rolling lottery.


 

 Sounds promising.


----------



## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> I haven't put the stock tubes back in for ages. May have to try them again since the Lyr is well burned in now. Scary doesn't like the Schiit 6N1P's much either but in my combo with a DAC magic and silver plated copper interconnects and my HE6 they sound great.




I don't like the Schiit 6N1p's my 70's set sounds good


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> It would be interesting to see a full list compiled from everyone who has gotten tubes to swap into the Lyr, and what their favorite is (and why).  Granted, some of these tubes are either hard to get, very expensive, or both, but an "All-Options List" might be helpful for people who only want to buy one set of tubes to swap.  I'll list mine off and keep WNBC's list quoted with his preferred tube bolded, and if anyone wants to add, we can get a compiled list rolling, I guess.




I think this is a great idea to try to get a general idea of the sound signature of the tubes. Just trying to get everyone to form a consensus may be an issue. I will make my list once I get all my tubes in and run them I have 4 sets coming in.


----------



## mhamel

What about something like this, to collate reviews and impressions?  I just threw this together on a Wordpress blog, and it allows for rating as well as comments/reviews.  I'm happy to update the list of tubes on the site as people try them/send the info to me, and then the comments/reviews/ratings are open.
   
http://lyrtubes.wordpress.com
   
       -Mike


----------



## MrScary

neat idea looks nice .I wish that this forum had poll's etc so we could get people to vote on the proposed sound signatures. I think that one of the problems that I have is each person has a different audio chain source,DAC this alone create a change in the Tube signature
of the LyR. Example: I can change my tube in my dac and it changes the sound of the tube in the LyR so it may be difficult to get a consensus. General idea I think is the most we can hope for which is good enough for those not wanting to spend 400-500 on tubes like I have hahahaha


----------



## mhamel

MrScary,
   
  I agree, it can vary widely based on pieces in everyone's listening chain, but I was thinking just as a way to have some easier way to get info on each tube type than trying to scroll through pages and pages of posts/conversations.  As long as the gear used when listening is noted in the comments, it could at least help provide for differences heard when the same person reviews multiple types of tubes.
   
  As with anything here at Head-Fi, there's such an overwhelming amount of information that gets posted, it becomes nearly impossible to digest it all at times.
   
      -Mike


----------



## MrScary

mhamel said:


> MrScary,
> 
> I agree, it can vary widely based on pieces in everyone's listening chain, but I was thinking just as a way to have some easier way to get info on each tube type than trying to scroll through pages and pages of posts/conversations.  As long as the gear used when listening is noted in the comments, it could at least help provide for differences heard when the same person reviews multiple types of tubes.
> 
> ...




Ohh I agree 100% we need to do what the LCD-2 owners thread does keep an ongoing list of owners of the LCD-2 we need to do something similar with the tubes Have a list and the sound signature next to each one, we have a good start just keeping it organized is tough on a forum.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Raytheon 6BZ7 tubes in now...impressive bass and mids, but the highs feel a bit cut-off and soundstage isn't great, although imaging is.


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> Raytheon 6BZ7 tubes in now...impressive bass and mids, but the highs feel a bit cut-off and soundstage isn't great, although imaging is.




Interesting then they don't sound like the RCA's as the RCA's have somewhat of a 3d imaging to them and good highs. I'm curious how the RCA canada tubes will sound when I get those in. This tube rolling is really getting expensive hope that my last few sets will make me stop hahahha.


----------



## Rope

Rolled in 6BZ7, although they're not RCA, but GE.  I'll let them "cook" for a bit and then fire up the cans and take a listen.  Not looking for tremendous improvements until the GE's have had a chance to settle for a week or two.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Rolled in 6BZ7, although they're not RCA, but GE.  I'll let them "cook" for a bit and then fire up the cans and take a listen.  Not looking for tremendous improvements until the GE's have had a chance to settle for a week or two.




Interesting day we have a comparison of the 6BZ7's going on


----------



## DemonicLemming

Yeah, compared to the Amperex tubes, the top end is really constrained on the Raytheon tubes.  Given, that's only with about an hour on them, though.  I do have the RCAs waiting to go it, but I should have plenty of time this weekend to do more tube rolling, and hopefully get better overall impressions of all the tubes I have now.  Waiting on the GE 6BZ7s, but that should be it - for good this time.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Rope

It's truly amazing, well for me anyway, that an electro-mechanical device, small as these input tubes are, can impact sound quality to this degree.
   
  I'm in awe of the difference between the 6N23P's, which I thought were good in their own right, and the GE 6BZ7's.  I'm blown away right now.
   
  If the CV 2492's are as large a jump in sound quality as the 6BZ7's are over the 6N23P's, I'll be robbing a liquor store this weekend.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> It's truly amazing, well for me anyway, that an electro-mechanical device, small as these input tubes are, can impact sound quality to this degree.
> 
> I'm in awe of the difference between the 6N23P's, which I thought were good in their own right, and the GE 6BZ7's.  I'm blown away right now.
> 
> If the CV 2492's are as large a jump in sound quality as the 6BZ7's are over the 6N23P's, I'll be robbing a liquor store this weekend.




I felt the same way about the 23's to the RCA 6BZ7's


----------



## Uchiya

Daaaaaamn, RCA 6BZ7's.  I thought the JJ's burned in had some tight bass.  Listening to some Electro as they're burning in.  My brain is feeding signals to my jaw, feeling like they could be knocked loose, speaking metaphorically of course.  The JJ's I agree with are already pretty neutral and very transparent.  Using Q701's.  The sound is definetly much warmer, soundstage feels just as wide but a little congested with the RCA's.


----------



## jamato8

Give the 6BZ7's a little time. They smooth out and open up even more. There is no need to go out and spend 150 or 200 or 300 for a pair of tubes because these do an excellent job. Fortunately millions were made so even with demand there are many. Part of the reason they aren't "pushed" is because they are plentiful and cheap. I do like the black plate version the best and look forward to the Marconi I will be receiving soon.


----------



## Uchiya

A few NOS on ebay for the RCA's.  Any risk in not buy a necessarily matched pair?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> A few NOS on ebay for the RCA's.  Any risk in not buy a necessarily matched pair?


 

 They should be fairly close as they are used for the voltage gain and if not close, you would have balance problem with the sound. It will not cause any harm to the amp. I have found in practice that unless tubes are really out of spec, they normally work fine. You do want tested tubes though but then you don't know what the seller is really doing and some use testers that are junk and can do damage to a tube. If you know the seller or they specify the testers, like one of the many Hickoks or other transconductance testers, then you should be fine but real high performance testing will cost more as it takes longer but again, I don't think most of the time it is needed. One thing you don't want to do is use your amp as a tube tester, which means get tested tubes. 
   
  You can also do an online search for tube sellers and often, not always, they can be cheaper than ebay and if they are reputable, they will and have tested the tubes and they can, for a couple of dollars, match tubes for you.


----------



## Uchiya

Jam, as you were with my pb-2; full of good information.  Thank you!


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> Jam, as you were with my pb-2; full of good information.  Thank you!


 
  I am glad to have helped. I hope never to lead anyone astray. 
  -----------------------
   
  I put the RCA 6BZ7 black plates in, after cleaning the pins with very fine wet/dry sandpaper. It is just enough to get any corrosion or any other build-up off, and to polish the pins, just a little. Anyway, I love to swap and go back and forth on tubes from time to time, but I have to say that for the frequency extremes, texture of music, and very believable mids, these inexpensive (cheap) tubes just do it. Great fun. I have some Sylvania D getter ring black plate coming and some D getter RCA black plate.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I am glad to have helped. I hope never to lead anyone astray.
> -----------------------
> 
> I put the RCA 6BZ7 black plates in, after cleaning the pins with very fine wet/dry sandpaper. It is just enough to get any corrosion or any other build-up off, and to polish the pins, just a little. Anyway, I love to swap and go back and forth on tubes from time to time, but I have to say that for the frequency extremes, texture of music, and very believable mids, these inexpensive (cheap) tubes just do it. Great fun. I have some Sylvania D getter ring black plate coming and some D getter RCA black plate.




I love them wish Jamato8 would have told me about them sooner probably saved me a few hundred. Well I found two pair of RCA Canada so I am looking forward to those coming. Now I have to pick up some black plate


----------



## Uchiya

Whoa...just 5 hours in...listening to John Williams - Superman and Olympic Fanfare.  Really smooth, much more than the 200+hrs JJ's...airy, the sounds breathes more.  Eerily good.  Separation is a lot better.  Today I thought I was incapable of finding imagery acoustically, precisely locating where everything was coming from but I feel like I can actually point out where everything is in front of me.  I feel like i'm back farther and yet the stage is so much wider.


----------



## MrScary

uchiya said:


> Whoa...just 5 hours in...listening to John Williams - Superman and Olympic Fanfare.  Really smooth, much more than the 200+hrs JJ's...airy, the sounds breathes more.  Eerily good.  Separation is a lot better.  Today I thought I was incapable of finding imagery acoustically, precisely locating where everything was coming from but I feel like I can actually point out where everything is in front of me.  I feel like i'm back farther and yet the stage is so much wider.




Yeah amazing isn't it from such an inexpensive tube


----------



## Uchiya

Would like to here impressions of the Lyr with these tubes against the Cavalli LF, nonetheless...that upgrade bug has for now, left my body.  Electo; it's like I'm walking through and into the music.  Bass slam is less jarring but still just as tight; sound not so warm as during initial use.  Also, Adele's "19" cd, the limited edition one with the live tracks.  "Daydreamer" sounded like a bad recording with stock tubes, veiled, everything sort of mushed and bleeding into one another  even on the Akg's.  Well, not anymore.   I can see the piano, I can see where Adele is standing on stage.  I am excited. 
  Scary, you weren't joking bout the slight 3d effect.
   
  Slightly sad now:  My portable setup won't even come close; a balanced CLAS setup.  Custom iems maybe?


----------



## olor1n

Uh, the 6N23Ps are sounding a little thin at the moment. Time to reconfigure the dac to compensate.
   
  From what jamato's told me in PM the older RCA black plate 6bz7/6bq7a are the ones to go for. I've ordered a matched quad but there was no mention of the black plates. I've gathered the box with the round RCA logo is older than the bold white RCA text seen on other boxes. Hopefully the older logo is indicative that I've ordered some black plates.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Uh, the 6N23Ps are sounding a little thin at the moment. Time to reconfigure the dac to compensate.
> 
> From what jamato's told me in PM the older RCA black plate 6bz7/6bq7a are the ones to go for. I've ordered a matched quad but there was no mention of the black plates. I've gathered the box with the round RCA logo is older than the bold white RCA text seen on other boxes. Hopefully the older logo is indicative that I've ordered some black plates.


 
  The RCA logo went through a few changes like all logos. I have RCA's that go way back, I think into the late 20's. The box doesn't tell much though as you can have one from 1960 but it might be a 70's tube. Sylvania's early stuff from 1928 to around 1930 was a dark green box with a forest. It was lightened up later. The earlier box was actually a little depressing, very dark and strange. There is some great tube art on some boxes and people used to collect just the boxes. I have some off brands that are excellent looking. And Taylor made beautiful tubes, some of the best ever made but not many for audio but the box were very nice also.


----------



## Uchiya

My  HD650's were so terribly veiled.  I thought they were broken.  Switched back to JJ's and everything was good again.
   
  Case in point; RCA 6bz7's - Great for my Q701's, terrible for HD650's.
   
  Are they low current tubes?


----------



## olor1n

Replaced the Earth hdam in my dac with the ada4627-1brz opamp and must say the imaging and detail with the 6N23P's in place is outstanding (even at low levels). These tubes are opening up nicely and seem to benefit if your source has resolve and body, rather than a cold, clinical quality.


----------



## MrScary

uchiya said:


> My  HD650's were so terribly veiled.  I thought they were broken.  Switched back to JJ's and everything was good again.
> 
> Case in point; RCA 6bz7's - Great for my Q701's, terrible for HD650's.




sounds like you got some bum tubes dude some imbalance or bad matching.


----------



## olor1n

What's your source Uchiya? I find the Lyr (and therefore the HD650) very responsive to changes in my chain. The 6N23P seems quite revealing relative to the stock JJ's. Perhaps the RCA's are similar and heightening characteristics in your setup that don't augment the HD650.


----------



## MrScary

uchiya said:


> My  HD650's were so terribly veiled.  I thought they were broken.  Switched back to JJ's and everything was good again.
> 
> Case in point; RCA 6bz7's - Great for my Q701's, terrible for HD650's.
> 
> Are they low current tubes?




hmmm I put on my HD650's and do not hear any veil with the RCA's must be the difference in our audio chains.


----------



## Uchiya

PC Optical > Stagedac > Lyr (RCA Tubes) > HD650 - Heavily Veiled, muddy bass.
  PC Optical > Stagedac > Lyr (JJ Tubes) > HD650 - Wonderful
  Ipod > CLAS > PB-2 > HD (650) > HD650 - Wonderful
   
  However, Using the RCA's with the Q701's, they sound great.
   
  Tried the other tubes; high pitched screeching in one or the other channel.
   
  Ah well, I'm only out 20 bucks XD For this set of 5.


----------



## jamato8

I am listening to the 6BZ7 and the HD650. I hear well controlled bass and definition. The thing is the input tubes don't have the response to what is being driven, the output devices do. The tubes control the voltage gain and will influence the sound but not in regards to what is being hooked up. The mids are good and there is extension on high frequencies, for the HD650's.


----------



## Rope

Besides the 6BZ7's sounding incredible, I noticed a considerable gain increase with the DM5000's.  Lyr volume control set to 12:00, Squeezebox Touch set to 51-52 with the 6N23P's, now 40-41 with 6ZB7's.
   
  I'd like to contribute more, but I have to listen to what seems like a brand new music collection with new cans.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I am listening to the 6BZ7 and the HD650. I hear well controlled bass and definition. The thing is the input tubes don't have the response to what is being driven, the output devices do. The tubes control the voltage gain and will influence the sound but not in regards to what is being hooked up. The mids are good and there is extension on high frequencies, for the HD650's.




I hear the same +1


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





rope said:


> Besides the 6BZ7's sounding incredible, I noticed a considerable gain increase with the DM5000's.  Lyr volume control set to 12:00, Squeezebox Touch set to 51-52 with the 6N23P's, now 40-41 with 6ZB7's.
> 
> I'd like to contribute more, but I have to listen to what seems like a brand new music collection with new cans.


 
  Hi Rope,
  FYI - I have an older SqueezeBox3 but I believe the volume control on the SqueezeBox Touch is digital, same as SqueezeBox3?  And is on a scale of 1-100?  If so then with the volume set that low you are likely losing resolution.  You are also negatively impacting the Signal/Noise Ratio and dynamic range.  See the posts here by Sean Adams, founder and designer of the SqueezeBox:  http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=164666
   
  Sound quality wise you're better off using the Lyr's volume pot and setting the SqueezeBox volume to 100 and in the Server's Player > Audio settings, set the Volume Control to "Output Level is fixed at 100%" to ensure fixed output.
   
  My Lavry DA11 has a digitally controlled ANALOG volume control, so I use that to remote control the volume and keep my Lyr's volume control set at 12:00 as you do.
   
  Love the SqueezeBox digital streamers! (but not digital volume controls)


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Hi Rope,
> FYI - I have an older SqueezeBox3 but I believe the volume control on the SqueezeBox Touch is digital, same as SqueezeBox3?  And is on a scale of 1-100?  If so then with the volume set that low you are likely losing resolution.  You are also negatively impacting the Signal/Noise Ratio and dynamic range.  See the posts here by Sean Adams, founder and designer of the SqueezeBox:  http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=164666
> 
> Sound quality wise you're better off using the Lyr's volume pot and setting the SqueezeBox volume to 100 and in the Server's Player > Audio settings, set the Volume Control to "Output Level is fixed at 100%" to ensure fixed output.
> ...


 
  Thanks for the suggestion, USAudio!
   
  I understand exactly the audio principals you're eluding to, and I have set the Lyr volume pot to 100% much like my Parasound Halo and Bryston amps, however, when I do so with the Lyr, in combination with DM5000's, the hum is too much for my tiny ears to bear.


----------



## jamato8

I would not turn the volume to max since any signal from what would be like a preamp, if of too high a magnitude, could ruin the drivers. I have done this before but with amps that didn't have the potential of the Lyr. This isn't a speaker system and while the HE-6 could handle the signal, many other phones can not.


----------



## Rope

Since my Squeezebox Touch is the acting volume control, it is possible to set the volume pot of the Lyr to 100%.  Like I stated above, the hum becomes bothersum.  I do compensate for the lower volume settings on the Lyr with a BBE unit.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Analog volume control always trumps digital volume control, since you're using physical attenuation in the case of analog control, whereas you're actually changing the signal integrity with digital volume.  I might not have caught it, but is there any reason you prefer to use the digital control of the Squeezebox over the analog control of the Lyr?
  
  Quote: 





rope said:


> Since my Squeezebox Touch is the acting volume control, it is possible to set the volume pot of the Lyr to 100%.  Like I stated above, the hum becomes bothersum.  I do compensate for the lower volume settings on the Lyr with a BBE unit.


----------



## Uchiya

Experienced the sensation of these tubes for only 3-4 hours after which they slowly died on me as the sound became thinner over the next few hours.  Other pairs had a terrible screeching.  Definetly on the lookout for more 6bz7's.  Maybe this next order will do.  Hard to find a matched set on ebay.  These stock JJ's are decent in their own right.  Have to be patient.  XD


----------



## jamato8

Both tubes died? I assume you are talking about the 6BZ7?


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> Experienced the sensation of these tubes for only 3-4 hours after which they slowly died on me as the sound became thinner over the next few hours.  Other pairs had a terrible screeching.  Definetly on the lookout for more 6bz7's.  Maybe this next order will do.  Hard to find a matched set on ebay.  These stock JJ's are decent in their own right.  Have to be patient.  XD


 


  That blows. Who was the ebay seller you purchased the tubes from?


----------



## Uchiya

3 Pairs of RCA 6BZ7's from Ohm Electronics: first pair started out great but slowly died through the night.  Other two pairs had intolerable screeching.
  One pair of 6BQ7A's from bigalsproducts - declared tested but one arrived DOA.  Also poor packaging, and the invoice was crumpled and thrown into a shipping bag that reeked of cigarettes.


----------



## MrScary

uchiya said:


> Experienced the sensation of these tubes for only 3-4 hours after which they slowly died on me as the sound became thinner over the next few hours.  Other pairs had a terrible screeching.  Definetly on the lookout for more 6bz7's.  Maybe this next order will do.  Hard to find a matched set on ebay.  These stock JJ's are decent in their own right.  Have to be patient.  XD




Yeah I figured you had bad tubes. I just got my second matched set of the 6bz7's in now I have a backup. Now I'm waiting on the RCA Cananda. Also just piced up some RCA blackplate from Tubedepot for 3.95 a piece matched.


----------



## olor1n

I have an apparently matched quad of RCA 6bq7a on the way. It's great they're relatively inexpensive but I get the feeling ebay is a bit of a lottery. If mine are duds I'll be pissed, as with the cost of shipping I could've just spent a little more to purchase a nice NOS pair of Amperex tubes from a reputable online store. For tubes that are apparently abundant, the 6bz7/6bq7a are frustratingly difficult to find in matched tested quantities from respected sources.
   
  I wish Schiit would stock these and other tubes.


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> I have an apparently matched quad of RCA 6bq7a on the way. It's great they're relatively inexpensive but I get the feeling ebay is a bit of a lottery. If mine are duds I'll be pissed, as with the cost of shipping I could've just spent a little more to purchase a nice NOS pair of Amperex tubes from a reputable online store. For tubes that are apparently abundant, the 6bz7/6bq7a are frustratingly difficult to find in matched tested quantities from respected sources.
> 
> I wish Schiit would stock these and other tubes.




Yeah I agree alot of them are NOS but not tested that's why I emailed tubedepot and asked them if they had any black plates I got tired of the ebay lottery as you said.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> Analog volume control always trumps digital volume control, since you're using physical attenuation in the case of analog control, whereas you're actually changing the signal integrity with digital volume.  I might not have caught it, but is there any reason you prefer to use the digital control of the Squeezebox over the analog control of the Lyr?


 

 My implementation of volume control is two fold; the Lyr is setting atop my BBE unit 8' away, and considering the recording variations in volume, I'd constantly be getting up to adjust the volume pot on the Lyr.  I'm too old for the Schiit!


----------



## jamato8

I would buy the tubes from a reputable dealer that will test them, not ebay. Most of the time they are less money, and backed up for tubes that are DOA or die soon after being used. The 6BZ7 is an inexpensive tube so their isn't the incentive to put in the work on them but some sellers give you the same service no matter the cost, which is how it should be and how they build a business that you feel good about going back to.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





rope said:


> My implementation of volume control is two fold; the Lyr is setting atop my BBE unit 8' away, and considering the recording variations in volume, I'd constantly be getting up to adjust the volume pot on the Lyr.  I'm too old for the Schiit!


 
  I know exactly what you mean and that is one of the reasons I chose a DAC with an integrated analog volume control.
   
  I've never used it before but the SqueezeBox has a built-in "automatic volume adjustment" feature that adjusts for volume variations in recordings, you might check that out.  Unfortunately of course it will be adjusting the volume up/down digitally ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... but I don't imagine the adjustment will typically be very much and should have a minimal impact on resolution and the SNR.


----------



## HK_sends

Just started burning in my Canadian GE Black Plate 6BZ7 tubes.  From the start, they are sounding pretty sweet.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Just started burning in my Canadian GE Black Plate 6BZ7 tubes.  From the start, there are sounding pretty sweet.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...




Cool will be interesting to see how the GE's sound relative to the RCA's


----------



## jamato8

I just put my silver IC in the system. I haven't used it in some time and waited to use it so everything was well burned in. I used to make IC''s commercially, years ago, and this one is nice with teflon and very high purity silver (99.99995) in 22 gauge. I made it with a 4 plait braid. Anyway, the level of detail retrieval is surprising as I was using a pretty good Zu cable. This shows even more what the Lyr can do as the spatial information has increased and I can hear whispering or audience talking that I could not hear before. While I am a believer in good IC's, I am not that blown away with them and don't mind using the cheap cables that come with something. In this case, with the HE-500, the Lyr and the new DB-2 that uses a separate power supply for the digital and analog section of the dac and 2 Wolfson dacs does a very fine job.


----------



## WNBC

Received some Mullards today.  Only burned for a couple hours but not sure how used they were before I got them so I'm just posting initial impressions now.  
   
  The hype is real, lovely tubes, musical.  Man, talk about smooth, punchy mids.  The upper range just sounds right to me with these tubes (I need to read that audio glossary again).  Also, seems like less noise than other tubes.
  Could be they just synergize well in my system:  Foobar > W4S Dac-2 > Lyr > HE-4
   
  E88CC CV22492 (1969-1978), Like New condition, Dimple Disk Getter, Mitcham GT, Britain.  Tubemonger, $125 pair.
   
  Call me a Mullard's fan.  Done rolling for now but do wonder what those $300/pair Mullards sounds like, maybe X-mas or tax refund 2012.


----------



## olor1n

Over the last few days my Cryo 6N23P's have fluctuated but I hope it's now settled, as the transparency and imaging I hear is astounding. There were instances when they would inexplicably sound thin and very similar to my solid state in the relative flatness of layering and texture.
   
  Listening to We Started Nothing by The Ting Tings at the moment and there's a very Grado/Alessando attack in the over-driven guitars and forward vocals but with substantial body in the rhythm section. There's extended air and separation between instruments, with tracks originating from beyond the drivers. The rendition of vocal melodies in "That's not my name" is so natural and every pic scrape and guitar strum, handclap, overdub, the different distortion effects employed in the crescendo is resolved with clarity.
   
  This is through the HD650, a headphone infamous for being slow and boring, lacking definition and a veil that's nowhere to be heard on my modest setup.


----------



## Wedge

I just want to say, I don't know that there is a difference or not, I just want to be clear as to which ones I have/had or heard.  I didn't hear for sure, but I was told there was a difference between the 60s Mullard 6DJ8 and the 60s Mullard CV2492, which I did not listen for myself, but was told to me by Liqtenexp and Brasewel.
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Call me a Mullard's fan.  Done rolling for now but do wonder what those $300/pair Mullards sounds like, maybe X-mas or tax refund 2012.


----------



## WNBC

*Quoting Joe's Tube Lore*
   
   
 [size=medium] _"Mullard 6922 EE88CC, Great Britain (shield, gold pins) This is a Great Britain manufactured tube, not all of Mullards are in this family with a lot of these tubes being sourced form Amperex in Holland. As I understand it, Mullard’s 6DJ8 tube tooling came from Amperex and it looks like it every Mullard in this family I’ve ever seen looks like an Amperex inside down to the smooth edge, slightly square shaped mica spacers. Perhaps as a result this tube owes a lot to the Amperex 6922 family when it comes to sound quality. This guy’s got good bass, nice mids and a wet, ambient soundstage occupied by slightly smaller and images than the Siemens and Ediswans. A nice tube overall though not quite up to the level of the best Amperexes._[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] _Mullard CV 2493, Great Britain (no shield, getter disc, gold pins) This tube lacks a splatter shield with just a small metal wire holding a solid metal disc with dimples around its perimeter above the upper mica spacer. The sound of this tube is very different from the 6922 above, with a less pronounced bass and less vivid highs. It does have a very nice midband, however, combined with a deep & dimensional soundstage. If you find the 6922 Mullards (and Amperex 6922s to follow) too pronounced at the frequency extremes this tube could be a valid choice representing a viable tuning alternative..._[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] _Mullard 6DJ8, Great Britain (shield, steel pins) One of my pair of these died a year ago (moment of reverent silence please....) so I couldn’t compare it directly to the others in this shoot-out. Given the vagaries of long distance auditory memory I will not comment on specifics other than to say I remember it as quite good and worth checking out if you get the chance."_[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] *Wedge, seems like there is a difference.  I have the one in the middle, CV 2493, which someone stated already is the equivalent of the CV2492.  My order form and tube box say CV 2492 and the tube says CV 2493, so I'm definitely assuming equivalents.  Joe is spot on the money, as usual.  Very nice midband and soundstage.  He describes them as "less vivid high" but maybe that works well with the HE-4.  I'll have to try them out with other headphones to get another perspective of the highs.  Mullard 6DJ8 appears to be the better tube and priced accordingly so.*[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]

  Quote: 





wedge said:


> I just want to say, I don't know that there is a difference or not, I just want to be clear as to which ones I have/had or heard.  I didn't hear for sure, but I was told there was a difference between the 60s Mullard 6DJ8 and the 60s Mullard CV2492, which I did not listen for myself, but was told to me by Liqtenexp and Brasewel.


----------



## DemonicLemming

I've got American GE 6BZ7s due in sometime soon, so I'll post impressions on those to compare against the Canadian ones, too.
   
  RCA 6BZ7 is stacking up pretty well against the rest - definitely a lot better than the Raytheon 6BZ7 tubes.  They have a lot of the musicality of the GE gray glass, but without sounding thin or lean, and with better imaging/soundstage.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Wedge

I actually also meant to say that 60's CV2492 constructions wise is a little different than the 70s CV2493 in that at least the getters were different, as the ones I have, have a halo getter, and the 70's have a disc type getter.  Someone asked me what difference does that make, I really don't know, just want to make sure that I make myself clear.  To be honest, I think all Mullard tubes are great and so far that I can tell the differences between them have been pretty slight.  I am glad that you found your go to pair for the Lyr.
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> [size=medium] *Wedge, seems like there is a difference.  I have the one in the middle, CV 2493, which someone stated already is the equivalent of the CV2492.  My order form and tube box say CV 2492 and the tube says CV 2493, so I'm definitely assuming equivalents.  Joe is spot on the money, as usual.  Very nice midband and soundstage.  He describes them as "less vivid high" but maybe that works well with the HE-4.  I'll have to try them out with other headphones to get another perspective of the highs.  Mullard 6DJ8 appears to be the better tube and priced accordingly so.*[/size]
> [size=medium]  [/size]


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I actually also meant to say that 60's CV2492 constructions wise is a little different than the 70s CV2493 in that at least the getters were different, as the ones I have, have a halo getter, and the 70's have a disc type getter.  Someone asked me what difference does that make, I really don't know, just want to make sure that I make myself clear.  To be honest, I think all Mullard tubes are great and so far that I can tell the differences between them have been pretty slight.


 
   
  Indeed, there are CV2492's and CV2493's that have a "dimple" getter.  Not sure what year that started.  I have never seen a CV2493 with a more traditional Halo getter, but there may well be some.  I have CV2492's that have halo getters, and some that have dimple getters.  I'm not sure they sound any different, though.
   
  The Mullard 6DJ8 does sound a little different though - remember that the CV2492/3 are 6922 equivalents, not 6DJ8 equivalents.


----------



## LiqTenExp

Hey,
   
  Thanks again to Wedge's ultimate 6922/6DJ8 tube inventory we got to try one more tube out, and yes it was another Mullard.  This time it wasn't the 60's style CV2492 but ECC88 6DJ8.  Both Brasewel and I decided the ECC88 version were a little less congested sounding due to the low midrange/upper bass frequency response being pulled back a little compared to the CV2492.  I am going to try them out for a little and see if they stay like that.  I am a fan of both Mullards.  I would suggest these to anyone rolling since they are less costly and get you that lush Mullard sound everyone is hoping for.  They aren't as fancy of a tube (no gold pins) but they sound the part.
   
  CV2492 shown with ECC88 in the Lyr and their boxes outside the Lyr:

   
  ECC88/6DJ8 Mullards and their boxes:

   
  We did a lot of comparisons last night with LCD-2 and different amp/dac combos.  Check the LCD-2 thread out in a little for pictures.
   
  I still prefer the LYR over the Leben using the Havana DAC (mostly due to the Havana in my eyes making the lush Leben sound super lush).  I really enjoyed listening to the Apex P/V, it is a great sounding amp.  No complaints at all about it!
   
  The Apache sounded less congested and more articulate at first using the Havana DAC with the Apache vs. the Lyr.  This was with the Lyr tubed with the CV2492.  Once we tubed it with the ECC88 Mullards we couldn't figure out easily who the true winner was.  I couldn't make the call and would really require us running through a full spectrum of music types to call it.  That Apache with the Havana is one heck of a combo and I am proud of the Lyr even competing at all with it!


----------



## sphinxvc

Awesome man.  ^
   
  I think I'm just about ready to pull back on all my comments regarding LCD2s / Lyr incompatibility.  I trust Brasewel's judgement having done a lot of A/Bs with him and if you guys couldn't call the winner between the ECC88'ed Lyr and the Apache then I'm thoroughly impressed.


----------



## LiqTenExp

The Apache is one heck of a piece of equipment.  I really liked it when we picked the right DAC for it.  Like I said we thought it and the Lyr got really close sounding to each other and both had their positive points, neither had anything negative to say about them.


----------



## Rope

Where might one procure a pair of the Mullard IEC 6DJ8's?


----------



## LiqTenExp

https://www.tubeworld.com/6dj8.htm#6DJ8MULL70
   
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=Mullard+6DJ8
   
  couple other places.


----------



## jamato8

IEC were the last of the Mullard prductions and sometimes weren't even made by Mullard so the code needs to be seen (the etched code in the glass at the base). The earlier production of the 50's and 60's are considered better but if the IEC sound good that is all that counts.


----------



## LiqTenExp

I don't know the date codes like Wedge does of the top of my head but I know the ones seen in my photos are correct date code per Wedge.


----------



## Wedge

When Mullard stopped making them , I don't think that IEC were getting them from Great Britain, for got where they were getting them from.  Those are 60's 6DJ8s anyways.  All that matters is if LiqTenExp and the rest of you all like em.  They could be made in China or Russia.
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> IEC were the last of the Mullard prductions and sometimes weren't even made by Mullard so the code needs to be seen (the etched code in the glass at the base). The earlier production of the 50's and 60's are considered better but if the IEC sound good that is all that counts.


----------



## jamato8

They were made in Italy, India, Russia, and somewhere else but who knows. They most likely are made in the UK.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





liqtenexp said:


> https://www.tubeworld.com/6dj8.htm#6DJ8MULL70
> 
> http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=Mullard+6DJ8
> 
> couple other places.


 
  Thanks, LiqTenExp!


----------



## jamato8

Tube world charges some of the highest prices of any tube seller there is but they do offer some interesting tubes.


----------



## Wedge

Yeah, they are crazy expensive.


----------



## jamato8

I know a tube seller that sells them tubes. He sells the tubes at a normal wholesale to low wholesale amount. There is no reason they need to get a tube for 50 dollars and sell it for 250 but they do and can.


----------



## Rope

Yeah, but everything on eBay is either rare or vintage or both.  Majority neglect to specify in item description, used, NOS, or new.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





rope said:


> Yeah, but everything on eBay is either rare or vintage or both.  Majority neglect to specify in item description, used, NOS, or new.


 
  I know, it is easy to get burned. That is one reason it is good to have a tube tester but they aren't cheap, the good ones anyway, and how much should you have to spend to get some decent tubes, not all that much if you are dealing with someone who has scruples and backs up their product. The sold as-is etc is a big red flag. If they don't trust their product why should you? I do agree though with some that do not warranty a burnt out filament as that indicates a heater circuit that is wrong more than a bad tube but that is another issue.


----------



## Kremer930

Can I still blame scary??  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Just picked up a matched pair of Amperex disc getter ECC88 (says Mullard in the ad)  They were pretty cheap.  Are these Mullards or are these the Orange label Amperex tubes that have been mentioned before.  They look to have a dimpled getter.  Cant say that I know too much about tubes.  Appreciate advice and input.
   
  My slow camel from Russia must still be finding its way.  Probably via China and Alaska....   I have 3 other tube sets still en route.  Will be a fun night of music when they finally get here.
   
  The good thing is that even when I upgrade to the new Schiit amp and Dac then I will have to keep the Lyr as a back-up as I will have too many tubes to suit it.


----------



## Wedge

Whats the date code on them?


----------



## Kremer930

I cant read them but the ad says...GAO B6K5 & GAO G6F3.  Made in 1976.  
   
  Does this make any sense?  I just thought that they were cheap and were worth a try.  
   
  If I didnt buy them I was going to get bitten by a $100 pair.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Can I still blame scary??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 Ive got 5 sets en route hahaha I dont think you can blame me anymore the rollsickness has you. Knock Knock!


----------



## mhamel

I finally had some time this weekend to re-arrange my rig and set up the Lyr.   The stock tubes lasted all of about 2 hours - they weren't that bad, and I realize they need a good amount of break-in time before they settle in, but I'd been itching to try the 1962 Mullard 6DJ8s I'd found cheap on eBay last week (used, from the UK, for just under $40 with shipping).   Turns out taking the chance on them was well worth it.  They, and the Lyr, in combo with the LCD-2, sound pretty incredible.  I'll have to do some rolling through the 20 or so pairs of 6DJ8/6922-types I've got, but for now, it just sounds too good to want to take these out to try anything else.
   
      -Mike


----------



## WNBC

Another fellow Rhody and ebay success story.  I'm listening to the GE 6BZ7 I got from Ebay.  Very good tubes from top to bottom.  A great find at $15 for the pair.  

  
  Quote: 





mhamel said:


> I finally had some time this weekend to re-arrange my rig and set up the Lyr.   The stock tubes lasted all of about 2 hours - they weren't that bad, and I realize they need a good amount of break-in time before they settle in, but I'd been itching to try the 1962 Mullard 6DJ8s I'd found cheap on eBay last week (used, from the UK, for just under $40 with shipping).   Turns out taking the chance on them was well worth it.  They, and the Lyr, in combo with the LCD-2, sound pretty incredible.  I'll have to do some rolling through the 20 or so pairs of 6DJ8/6922-types I've got, but for now, it just sounds too good to want to take these out to try anything else.
> 
> -Mike


----------



## Rope

Does anyone own, or has some one compared the RCA/GE 6BZ7's to the Mullard IEC 6DJ8's?  I'd be very interested to hear someones impression of how the two stack-up.


----------



## jamato8

I normally pack the Mullard around my 6BZ7's to protect them during shipping . . . . lol   
   
  I don't have any here as all my 6DJ8's and that type are in storage and I am not going to pay big bucks for things I have in quantities already, I just can't bring myself to it. I have lovely PQ's, all the different labels in Amperex, and on on but 8000 miles away. They are aging, Yep, that's it, they are aging to become fine and mellow with just the right finesse. If I had them here I would give a comparison.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I normally pack the Mullard around my 6BZ7's to protect them during shipping . . . . lol
> 
> I don't have any here as all my 6DJ8's and that type are in storage and I am not going to pay big bucks for things I have in quantities already, I just can't bring myself to it. I have lovely PQ's, all the different labels in Amperex, and on on but 8000 miles away. They are aging, Yep, that's it, they are aging to become fine and mellow with just the right finesse.


 


  Jamato8 how long are you on that Island for?


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Jamato8 how long are you on that Island for?


 

 Isn't that question a tad counter productive?  For someone who packs his Mullard 6DJ8's with 6BZ7's, ask him for the key to his tube storage unit!


----------



## jamato8

I don't know. Right now another rain is coming across the bay towards me. It rains so hard at times it is like white out in a snow storm. I have been doing a lot of photo coverage of life and scientific studies and have an article coming out in the second quarter of Cultural Survival out of Harvard so I stay busy but . . . . 
   
  I have to admit I have been enjoying the 6BZ7s, still and often I like to swap tubes out just for the fun. I want to burn in some grey plates as I note in my notes from around 7 or 8 years ago that I liked them also.


----------



## jamato8

I got some more 6BZ7's today. I needed a match for a D getter RCA and got one but it is one of the earliest RCA's of this type I have seen as it looks like 1952 so no match but interesting and a Sylvania that is the same, the old green box from early 50's to late 1940's and then some Canada RCA's. Such simple tubes but then triodes are just a heater, cathode and anode (plate) but the 6BZ7 takes it to extremes as a cheap tube. Then finding the copper post tubes is nice and I have a couple of those vs the steel post. I am letting the RCA Canada settle in. Strong bass but then the Sylvania grey plate also has strong controlled bass. 
   
  These Canada RCA's are extremely fast. Some attacks sound like electricity they come on so fast. Very clean and transparent.


----------



## Rope

Scored two 6DJ8 Mullard IEC's for a grand total of $50.00.
   
  Anyone in the market for a matched pair of Gold Lions?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





rope said:


> Scored two 6DJ8 Mullard IEC's for a grand total of $50.00.
> 
> Anyone in the market for a matched pair of Gold Lions?


 
  Whoa, 25 bucks each, good deal. I need some to pack around my 6BZ7's. lol
   
  I look forward to your impressions. 
   
  These new 6BZ7's I got went through some nasty sibilance but that blew out after an hour or so. They are warming up now as they were also somewhat sterile and solid state sounding. The midrange is peaking through real nice now and getting some body to it. ugghhh. . . they sound tinny now. . . well I will have to wait to see how these shape up.


----------



## Kremer930

I know that Scary doesnt like them but I was sitting here listening to the Gold lions and was thinking that the bass and ambiance and space was lacking.  So I switched back to my Schiit 6N1P's and wow.  Through my Mac, Pure Music, Glass Optical to Dac Magic to Lyr via silver rca to my HE6 they sound great.  I agree that the treble is a little bright but it is well balanced by the lush bass and sense of proximity.  The Lions sound veiled in comparison.  
   
  Even though I am now waiting on the Mullard made Amperex ECC88 and 3 sets of russian tubes, I wont be getting rid of the cheap Schiits.  They have a great synergy to my gear and ears.


----------



## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> I know that Scary doesnt like them but I was sitting here listening to the Gold lions and was thinking that the bass and ambiance and space was lacking.  So I switched back to my Schiit 6N1P's and wow.  Through my Mac, Pure Music, Glass Optical to Dac Magic to Lyr via silver rca to my HE6 they sound great.  I agree that the treble is a little bright but it is well balanced by the lush bass and sense of proximity.  The Lions sound veiled in comparison.
> 
> Even though I am now waiting on the Mullard made Amperex ECC88 and 3 sets of russian tubes, I wont be getting rid of the cheap Schiits.  They have a great synergy to my gear and ears.




hahaha they are not that bad I just prefer the 70's 6N1p's they don't have that harsh top end glad they are working for you.


----------



## MrScary

I just got in my NOS matched Phillips Valvo CCA's

All I can say is WOW! they were pricey but worth it. They sound great so far been running them for about an hour. Since I work from home for IBM I will be listening all day will give more details later this evening.

1. Tridemensional sound
2. Good Bass, Mids and the top end is airy


----------



## Kremer930

Such a shame that you cant see cool looking tubes like those in the depths of the Lyr.  I miss seeing the glow of big tubes.


----------



## Kremer930

Just did a quick ebay search.  Wont be buying those red label CCA Valvo tubes.  Ouch they are exy!!
   
  Need to save for the new Schiit amp and Dac.  That is going to take a while to put that much coin aside.  We should have the public release of the first Schiit dac very soon.  I hope that Jason gives us some more details on the higher end gear.  There are sure to be quite a few Schiit fans now that like me will be wanting to know what to start saving for.


----------



## DemonicLemming

I'm pretty interested in the Schiit DACs.  I'm starting to formulate an idea for some Maggie speakers, but I'll need a good DAC and amp to run them from my computer.  No complaints about my NFB-3, but I like to try as much gear as I can.
  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Just did a quick ebay search.  Wont be buying those red label CCA Valvo tubes.  Ouch they are exy!!
> 
> Need to save for the new Schiit amp and Dac.  That is going to take a while to put that much coin aside.  We should have the public release of the first Schiit dac very soon.  I hope that Jason gives us some more details on the higher end gear.  There are sure to be quite a few Schiit fans now that like me will be wanting to know what to start saving for.


----------



## brasewel

Regarding the Lyr vs Apex P/V vs Apache comparisons, we did not listen to a lot of music but I picked a good track that involved a lot of vocals and instruments that would effectively showcase the amps potential. You could identify the differences between the Lyr and the others but it wasn't a day and night difference as one would imagine. To me, congestion and soundstaging were the only two areas where the Lyr was notably inferior.
   
  Considering that the Lyr is ~$700 with the upgraded tubes while the Apache and P/V are $2k+ amps, it competed very well with these monsters.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> Considering that the Lyr is ~$700 with the upgraded tubes while the Apache and P/V are $2k+ amps, it competed very well with these monsters.


 

 Lyr is about ~$550 with the tubes you both ultimately settled on, if we are comparing prices as new, the apache is $3K and P/V is $2.1K, in essence you can start to see the diminishing returns at this level.


----------



## brasewel

Well remember to include the price of that tube you put in the P/V


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> Since my Squeezebox Touch is the acting volume control, it is possible to set the volume pot of the Lyr to 100%.  Like I stated above, the hum becomes bothersum.  I do compensate for the lower volume settings on the Lyr with a BBE unit.


 

 Just keep in mind that using this methodology SERIOUSLY compromises your quality of sound, worsening the signal to noise ratio, for both DAC and amp, worsening the resolution of your DAC, 
  You're literally throwing away half the potential of your system.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Lyr is about ~$550 with the tubes you both ultimately settled on, if we are comparing prices as new, the apache is $3K and P/V is $2.1K, in essence you can start to see the diminishing returns at this level.


 
  Well put!


----------



## Wedge

Depends on where you get them from.  Like I said I've seen some of these tubes go for obscene prices, but if you look around or you know some trustworthy folks you can really get some good deals, hence making the P/V still, just IMO the better deal.  I am not saying your amp is not good, Brasewel, I am merely stating the P/V as my preference for both the minor sonic difference and the value, as well as ease of tweak (change tubes).  Of course your amp just looks SO MUCH prettier than the P/V.
  
  Quote: 





brasewel said:


> Well remember to include the price of that tube you put in the P/V


----------



## WNBC

Was your source Ebay?  I see a seller from Germany with 2 lots of 6 tubes for sale.   It will be interesting to see our fellow Head-fiers bid on these.  Maybe he or she can sell us the extras 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I just got in my NOS matched Phillips Valvo CCA's
> 
> All I can say is WOW! they were pricey but worth it. They sound great so far been running them for about an hour. Since I work from home for IBM I will be listening all day will give more details later this evening.
> 
> ...


----------



## ZorgDK

Just got my el cheapo GE 6BZ7 NOS. I've listened for a short while and so far they sound pretty nice. The midrange seems empathized which wowed me on the first few pop tracks I played but the sound seems slightly compressed.  I'll give them some time and see how I like them, so far I'm neutral on them. I notice that they have a stronger glow than the other tubes I have. Is that due to it has twin triode? In any case it looks nice in the dark  
   
  I didn't win an Ebay auction for some Brimar CV2492 (who of you overbid me?  ) so I'll need to look some more for a pair of those. That, or maybe the NOS matched Phillips Valvo CCA's you mention MrScary or the Mullard CV2492.
   
  Also my new DAC should be coming in tomorrow. Should be good!


----------



## WNBC

Hi ZorgDK, we both have these tubes from the same Ebay seller.  These puppies do burn hot and bright.  I'm definitely enjoying them.  We have different systems so experiences will vary.  I consider them the Nike Cross-trainer or 10X zoom lens of my tubes.  Doesn't quite have airyness/soundstange of the 6N23P or midrange smoothiness of Mullard CV2493, but if all of my tubes broke and all I had was the 6BZ7 I'd be doing just fine.  

  
  Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> Just got my el cheapo GE 6BZ7 NOS. I've listened for a short while and so far they sound pretty nice. The midrange seems empathized which wowed me on the first few pop tracks I played but the sound seems slightly compressed.  I'll give them some time and see how I like them, so far I'm neutral on them. I notice that they have a stronger glow than the other tubes I have. Is that due to it has twin triode? In any case it looks nice in the dark


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Was your source Ebay?  I see a seller from Germany with 2 lots of 6 tubes for sale.   It will be interesting to see our fellow Head-fiers bid on these.  Maybe he or she can sell us the extras




Yeah I got lucky and found a NOS set matched on ebay for a bit over 100.00 I grabbed them up about 3 weeks ago. They are my favorite tube now love the tridemsional sound. Sad thing is they are hard to find ,the set I got was perfect lettering everything pretty good for old NOS tubes.


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey Jamato8 (or anyone else with experience), I picked up a pair of Westinghouse 6BZ7 6BQ7A Black Plates, and was wondering if these are a good 'vintage' of 6BZ7s. I'll pop them in tonight and get a listen, just wondering what's known about these.


----------



## MrScary

I also got in some pricy siemens E88CC

1. Strong bass
2. Good mids, and highs without sibilance
3. They are NOS so not enough time to break them in will give a more through review in a few days


----------



## MrScary

Also got in my Canada RCA 6BZ7's in not enough time to try them out yet but I trust Jamato8's opinion Im sure there great tubes
I'm having too much fun with the Valvo's right now. Been listening for going on 7 hours since I started work at 8:30am


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Just keep in mind that using this methodology SERIOUSLY compromises your quality of sound, worsening the signal to noise ratio, for both DAC and amp, worsening the resolution of your DAC,
> You're literally throwing away half the potential of your system.


 

 Your suggestion to optimize audio quality would be by using the analog Lyr pot to adjust volume settings while leaving the Squeezebox Touch at 100% volume?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Also got in my Canada RCA 6BZ7's in not enough time to try them out yet but I trust Jamato8's opinion Im sure there great tubes
> I'm having too much fun with the Valvo's right now. Been listening for going on 7 hours since I started work at 8:30am


 
  Mine sound a little thin. If they don't improve they will be good for some things but maybe not an all around tube. I like a little richer mids. For fun maybe I will pop my Siemens 6922's back in. 
   
  Yes, I am liking the Siemens more than the recent RCA Canada but the Sylvania grey plate 6BZ7 I was using yesterday are excellent.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Mine sound a little thin. If they don't improve they will be good for some things but maybe not an all around tube. I like a little richer mids. For fun maybe I will pop my Siemens 6922's back in.
> 
> Yes, I am liking the Siemens more than the recent RCA Canada but the Sylvania grey plate 6BZ7 I was using yesterday are excellent.




I will have to pop them in and feel the thinness hahahaha I ordered some Sylvania grey plate 6BZ7 just by chance I decided to try some other 6BZ7 good to hear that they are sounding good.
Yeah I need to pop out these Valvo's and get those siemens burning in they sound from the get go as an all around good tube.


----------



## DemonicLemming

GE 6BZ7s came in today.  Popped them in, played a few Fauxliage songs...and...wow.  Without a doubt, the best tubes I've had in the Lyr for everything except industrial metal and dubstep.  The soundstage and laser-precise imaging is amazing.


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> GE 6BZ7s came in today.  Popped them in, played a few Fauxliage songs...and...wow.  Without a doubt, the best tubes I've had in the Lyr for everything except industrial metal and dubstep.  The soundstage and laser-precise imaging is amazing.




Did you ever have the RCA 6BZ7s?


----------



## MrScary

Well I just opened my RCA Canada 6BZ7s one is bad guess I won't have to hear the thinness afterall good thing they were cheap


----------



## DemonicLemming

Yep.  They're a lot better than the Raytheon 6BZ7s, but I much prefer the GEs over the RCAs.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Did you ever have the RCA 6BZ7s?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Hey Jamato8 (or anyone else with experience), I picked up a pair of Westinghouse 6BZ7 6BQ7A Black Plates, and was wondering if these are a good 'vintage' of 6BZ7s. I'll pop them in tonight and get a listen, just wondering what's known about these.


 
  If you get a chance, can you post your opinion of these?  I have some in transit and am curious.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Be happy to HK_sends 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Rolled them in about 10 minutes ago, and just started listening. They're NOS, so they're gonna need some burn. Early impressions relative to the 23's - slightly less bass but sill tight and controlled. They throw a wider sound stage, and seem airier on the top with a bit more extension. Compared to the 23's, they seem a bit thin. We'll see what happens with some burn on them. More to follow. Please let me know your thoughts when yours land.


----------



## HK_sends

Thanks, I will!
   
  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Be happy to HK_sends
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Be happy to HK_sends
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It seems as if the whole 6BZ7 6BQ7A line has a thinness to them I have some sylvania 6BZ7 6BQ7A coming in so will see if they have the same attributes.


----------



## Gitfinger

Been Lurking and Learning from Scary and Jamato, et al and have just received notice of my Lyr being shipped. I already have a pair of cryo 6N23P to slot in.
  How much better would Mullard CV2492 from 1971 sound? Maybe earlier tubes sound better?
  Would anyone recommend bedding in the Lyr with the stock tubes first or the cryo's?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> Your suggestion to optimize audio quality would be by using the analog Lyr pot to adjust volume settings while leaving the Squeezebox Touch at 100% volume?


 
  Basically, yes, but if the output of the squeezebox is too high for the gain if the Lyr, then it's better to pad the input if the Lyr using in-line attenuators on the output of the squeezebox and leave its setting at 100%.  As you lower the "volume" of the output on the squeezebox, you're actually reducing the number of bits of effective dynamic range of the squeezebox itself.
   
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?FTR=in+line+attenuator&search_type=main&WebPage_ID=3&searchFilter=in+line+attenuator&x=41&y=12


----------



## Gitfinger

FYI
  Mullard CV2492's on eBay.
  There are 10 of these, won't need all 10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone fancy on going in with me so we don't end up forcing up the price unduly
   
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220790590148&rvr_id=236694812644&clk_rvr_id=236694812644&mfe=sidebar


----------



## WNBC

48 hours burn-in with the GE 6BZ7 and gotta say these are some amazing tubes.  Soundstage is wide and imaging with these in my system is excellent.  Definitely not thin sounding.  Ordered some RCA and Sylvania 6BZ7s but based on some other reviews it may be that the GE's are king.  Excellent for jazz.  Top end may be a tad bright with the HE-4 but still more burn needed with these tubes.  My CV2493s are starting to feel neglected.    

  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> It seems as if the whole 6BZ7 6BQ7A line has a thinness to them I have some sylvania 6BZ7 6BQ7A coming in so will see if they have the same attributes.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> 48 hours burn-in with the GE 6BZ7 and gotta say these are some amazing tubes.  Soundstage is wide and imaging with these in my system is excellent.  Definitely not thin sounding.  Ordered some RCA and Sylvania 6BZ7s but based on some other reviews it may be that the GE's are king.  Excellent for jazz.  Top end may be a tad bright with the HE-4 but still more burn needed with these tubes.  My CV2493s are starting to feel neglected.


 
  As with any tube, as you know, the 6BZ7 will vary depending upon when it was made and the materials, steel vs copper support rods to the grid. I don't find all sound thin. The RCA US and the Sylvania grey plate sound very good to me. The Canada 6BZ7 is very detailed but lacking some in body. I will try them off and on but I like the Sylvania and RCA early 60's.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> 48 hours burn-in with the GE 6BZ7 and gotta say these are some amazing tubes.  Soundstage is wide and imaging with these in my system is excellent.  Definitely not thin sounding.  Ordered some RCA and Sylvania 6BZ7s but based on some other reviews it may be that the GE's are king.  Excellent for jazz.  Top end may be a tad bright with the HE-4 but still more burn needed with these tubes.  My CV2493s are starting to feel neglected.




I should have stated that better the top end appears to be bright with the 6BZ7 6BQ7A line. I love my US RCA's in fact until today they were the only tubes I was using seems like you said,maybe the GE's are king makes me want a pair


----------



## leesure

I have a pair of the Sylvania 6BZ7's and the sound seems energetic and immediate, but also a bit edgy. Bonnie Rait's gorgeous but slightly raspy voice takes on a hard edge that isn't there with my Woo6SE. I bit the bullet and ordered a pair of NOS Mullard CV2492's from tubemonger hoping to warm that up a bit.

I've got about 100 hours on the Sylvanias...any thoughts on whether they'll calm down at all?


----------



## Kremer930

Got my Russian 6N1P-EV and 6N1P-VI today.  The VI look the same as the 6N1p's that I got from Jason.  The details from the web page where I bought them said 
 Made in Russia on Novosibirsk factory for military equipments. 1988 years. 
   
  The other tubes are the 6N1P-EV.  I am just listening to these now and with only 20 mins on them they do seem to be slightly cleaner in the upper mids. No adverse changes from te Schiit 6N1P but very new so will see how they develop.
   
  The description of the EV's was as follows:
   
 Made in Russia on Voskhod factory for military equipments. 1982 or 1985 year.  
   
  Got 10 of each so pretty well covered for a little while....


----------



## jamato8

Ten of each, I guess they will last you a long while since they are both a long life tube and the 6N1P can be run very hard. It would probably sound better run at some higher voltages than what the Lyr runs them.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> 48 hours burn-in with the GE 6BZ7 and gotta say these are some amazing tubes.  Soundstage is wide and imaging with these in my system is excellent.  Definitely not thin sounding.  Ordered some RCA and Sylvania 6BZ7s but based on some other reviews it may be that the GE's are king.  Excellent for jazz.  Top end may be a tad bright with the HE-4 but still more burn needed with these tubes.  My CV2493s are starting to feel neglected.




I grabbed some GE 6BZ7 had to try them 4 for like 15.99


----------



## DemonicLemming

That's not bad at all...did you find those on ebay?  I just picked up the last two from the same seller I bought my other GE 6BZ7s from on ebay.
   
  Did a bit more listening to the GEs last night, and they really do floor me.  It was the first time I could actually put on headphones and it seemed like I was right there - some acoustic guitar made me sound like I was sitting not 5 feet away from the guys playing.  They just made my headphone setup disappear and the music float out.  I'm now 100% satisfied with my headphone setup.
   
  These guys aren't quite as heavy-bottomed as the Amperex 6922 or the RCA 6BZ7 tubes, nor are the mids quite as meaty as the Brimar E88CC tubes, but I think the GEs give music a much more natural feel - nothing seems artificially inflated or lacking.  Going to try some old speed metal and some prog tonight, to see how they fare.  But, aside from industrial metal (like Skinny Puppy) and dubstep, I don't think I have a set of tubes yet that can match the effortless musicality of the GE 6BZ7 tubes.  Best part?  Quite inexpensive compared to some of the heavy-hitters in here (Amperex, Mullard/Brimar, and Valvo).
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I grabbed some GE 6BZ7 had to try them 4 for like 15.99


----------



## WNBC

Dang, you're quick, I was thinking about getting a backup pair from the same seller 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I guess I'm _not_ done rolling with the cheaper tubes.  I drink about $50 of coffee in a week.  I could cut that in half and now it's $25 coffee $25 tubes.  But let's be honest, $50 coffee $50 tubes per week.
   
  Any body got experience with Japanese vacuum tubes?  I hate to not credit someone, but I forget who stated that the Japanese are really good at the vacuum technology and their tubes have a different sound than others.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160292251806&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_824wt_1390
   
  I may have to take one for the team on this one.
   
  Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> That's not bad at all...did you find those on ebay?  I just picked up the last two from the same seller I bought my other GE 6BZ7s from on ebay.


----------



## DemonicLemming

/ninja
   
  I think there's one left; there were three listed when I bought my two last night. 
   
  I've seen those Japanese tubes pop up quite a bit when looking for Brimars; if you do wind up ordering them, I'd be interested in hearing your impressions on them.
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Dang, you're quick, I was thinking about getting a backup pair from the same seller
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Dang, you're quick, I was thinking about getting a backup pair from the same seller
> 
> 
> 
> ...




hahaha yeah I grabbed 4 of the 5 from that ebay seller couldn't resist for 5.00 a piece a lot cheaper than the heavy hitters I just picked up. The Chinese also make some fine tubes I have a Chinese presnave Reference in my Dac and it sounds 3d and has a beautiful sound but it was expensive 50.00 a tube and they came in this cool box hahaha like expensive headphones. I had a mullard AU7 in my DAC but just not as good as the Presnave


----------



## WNBC

I ordered a pair of the *Matsushita E88CC 6922 Japan NOS *NIB, Mullard Tooling from Tubemonger
 Will let everyone know how these turn out.
   
  Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> /ninja
> 
> I think there's one left; there were three listed when I bought my two last night.
> 
> I've seen those Japanese tubes pop up quite a bit when looking for Brimars; if you do wind up ordering them, I'd be interested in hearing your impressions on them.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> 48 hours burn-in with the *GE 6BZ7 and gotta say these are some amazing tubes.*  Soundstage is wide and imaging with these in my system is excellent.  Definitely not thin sounding.  Ordered some RCA and Sylvania 6BZ7s but based on some other reviews it may be that the GE's are king.  Excellent for jazz.  Top end may be a tad bright with the HE-4 but still more burn needed with these tubes.  My CV2493s are starting to feel neglected.


 
  Word!


----------



## ZorgDK

I've decided that I prefer the 80's 6N23P's over the GE 6BZ7 NOS. To me the former has a bigger sound (not compressed) and better lower end. Plus they don't run so hot.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Dang, you're quick, I was thinking about getting a backup pair from the same seller
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice but the shipping that should be 5 dollars is just another way to make more money. The tubes are really 75.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Shipping is only showing up as $4 for me - maybe it's auto-updating to a higher shipping cost due to your location?
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Nice but the shipping that should be 5 dollars is just another way to make more money. The tubes are really 75.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> Shipping is only showing up as $4 for me - maybe it's auto-updating to a higher shipping cost due to your location?


 
  Ah, thank you. They probably got the shipping charge wrong then. Shipping to here is the same as within the US but their chart may not have that info.


----------



## MrScary

I just ordered a pair of the Matsushita E88CC 6922 Japan NOS tubes.. I figure I have Holland tubes in my Lyr Chinese tubes in my Dac so why not try
Japan and Chinese hahahaha. Someone has to make me stop ordering tubes its out of control.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I just ordered a pair of the Matsushita E88CC 6922 Japan NOS tubes.. I figure I have Holland tubes in my Lyr Chinese tubes in my Dac so why not try
> Japan and Chinese hahahaha. Someone has to make me stop ordering tubes its out of control.


 

 Don't make me take your tube money away!


----------



## Kremer930

Hey Scary.  One day you will have to post a pic of your Lyr tube collection.  I know that you have sold on some that you didnt like so much but you must still just about be able to build a pedestal for the Lyr out of tubes that you have....
   

  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I just ordered a pair of the Matsushita E88CC 6922 Japan NOS tubes.. I figure I have Holland tubes in my Lyr Chinese tubes in my Dac so why not try
> Japan and Chinese hahahaha. Someone has to make me stop ordering tubes its out of control.


----------



## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> Hey Scary.  One day you will have to post a pic of your Lyr tube collection.  I know that you have sold on some that you didnt like so much but you must still just about be able to build a pedestal for the Lyr out of tubes that you have....




hahahaha I could build a pedestal that might look kinda cool with the different boxes. Now what to fill the boxes with to hold the weight of the Lyr hmmmm hahaha too funny


----------



## HK_sends

ALRIGHT, I have GOT to quit doing this! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I just popped for a set of Mullard ECC88 DJ8 AND a set of Mullard E88CC 6922 CV2492 tubes.
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=280688661085&si=Im0wAEQd%252BRvv3bWernNvtRYKZ7c%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT#ht_2192wt_1139
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=230627742325&si=Im0wAEQd%252BRvv3bWernNvtRYKZ7c%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT#ht_3500wt_1139
   
  Can I stop now? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> ALRIGHT, I have GOT to quit doing this!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You may not stop doing the tube thingie.  Next week there will be another tube you must try in order to enhance your audio enjoyment.


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> ALRIGHT, I have GOT to quit doing this!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The TubeRollness has you. Knock knock!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





rope said:


> You may not stop doing the tube thingie.  Next week there will be another tube you must try in order to enhance your audio enjoyment.


 
  NUTS!! ...Ok... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Actually, has anyone tried these?  How do they sound with the LCD-2?
   
  Inquiring minds,
  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

All - thought I'd chime in with more impressions of the Westinghouse 6BZ7s. Overall, I prefer the Cryo 23s. These 6BZ7s are less lively, thin, and less impactful in general. Apologies for my awkward phrasing; I find it very difficult to describe what I'm hearing. They certainly need more time on them, but they didn't provide the immediate 'Wow' that the Cryo 23s did. HK_Sends, I look forward to your impressions - it'll help me in understanding/describing what I'm hearing.


----------



## LiqTenExp

hk_sends said:


> Actually, has anyone tried these?  How do they sound with the LCD-2?
> 
> Inquiring minds,
> -HK sends




Yes a couple times myself in this thread


----------



## HK_sends

Oh, fine!...make me re-read the thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks,
  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





liqtenexp said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Received some Mullards today.  Only burned for a couple hours but not sure how used they were before I got them so I'm just posting initial impressions now.
> 
> The hype is real, lovely tubes, musical.  Man, talk about smooth, punchy mids.  The upper range just sounds right to me with these tubes (I need to read that audio glossary again).  Also, seems like less noise than other tubes.
> Could be they just synergize well in my system:  Foobar > W4S Dac-2 > Lyr > HE-4
> ...


 

 I went for the same deal from Tube Monger.  Just arrived today. They sent me a CV 2492 and a CV 2493 with matched values.  Warming up now - but my initial impression is that these are very smooth indeed !


----------



## kwkarth

Short and sweet, here are my rolling results so far.
   
   



  Tubes: Cleaned and treated all pins with DeOxit D100L and then G100L, wiped off excess and inserted.

  Mullard EC88 – fairly substantial hum in both channels at 0 volume. Too soft across the spectrum for me. No palpability to the highs. No real punch in the bass, did not pursue vocals
  Siemens E88CC – less hum than the Mullards by about 10dB. Bass sounded substantial, but a little tubby and bloated, not tubey. Highs better than the Mullards. Some periodic faint clicking noise on right channel. Creschendos seem a little congested. Vocals pretty good.
  Stock JJ's – dead quiet at 0 volume. Very slight hum (no signal) at full volume on both channels. Highs, very well defined, palpable. Mids, natural, clean, transparent. Bass, tight, well controlled, thunderous when called for, well extended.


----------



## MrScary

kwkarth said:


> Short and sweet, here are my rolling results so far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So your favorite tube is the JJ's? and may I ask about this hum you are getting. I don't get any hum with any of my tubes and I have over 10 sets. For you to be getting hum there has to be something in your audio chain causing it


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> kwkarth said:
> 
> 
> > Short and sweet, here are my rolling results so far.
> ...


----------



## jamato8

No hum with any tubes I have used so far. Hopefully I won't jinx myself.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> No hum with any tubes I have used so far. Hopefully I won't jinx myself.




No humm here either accept for the bad batch of GE grey that I got from ALO and the RCA canadian's but they were bad tubes


----------



## jamato8

Mr Scary, you are getting more demonic with your avatar and scaring me. I am glad there aren't any tubes with 3 6's. They practice a lot of magic on Pohnpei both good and bad. You might feel at home here MrScary.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Mr Scary, you are getting more demonic with your avatar and scaring me. I am glad there aren't any tubes with 3 6's. They practice a lot of magic on Pohnpei both good and bad. You might feel at home here MrScary.




hahahahaha actually I collect pictures of skulls http://dark-requiem.stumbleupon.com

MrScary is my Internet moniker that I picked up from the Instrumental song by Dokken MrScary


----------



## Snips

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Very nice collection. Mind if I use some of them?


----------



## MrScary

snips said:


> Very nice collection. Mind if I use some of them?




hahaha feel free


----------



## jamato8

I will have to find my images of real skulls MrScary. When I was working with the Aymara in northern Chile, I asked to go into a church that they rarely let people into. As I walked in and the light from the open door illuminated the interior, over on the left I could see some objects. As I got closer I could see. . . . they were skulls. There was even a paper bag full of skulls. they had been dug up from the 16 and 17 hundreds from the graves inside the church. The royals of the Aymara also would wrap the skulls of the newborn so the head would elongate, with almost no forehead, just pointing back. The more exaggerated the better. I have images of those also MrScary. Very unusual indeed. I also came across a mummy from the high deserts in norther Chile. Still smelled after so many years Mr Scary, still smelled.
   
  ------------------
   
  Don't mean to get off subject. I am still enjoying the Seimens 6922 tubes. Too bad they didn't make any tubes in the shape of skulls, huh MrScary?


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I will have to find my images of real skulls MrScary. When I was working with the Aymara in northern Chile, I asked to go into a church that they rarely let people into. As I walked in and the light from the open door illuminated the interior, over on the left I could see some objects. As I got closer I could see. . . . they were skulls. There was even a paper bag full of skulls. they had been dug up from the 16 and 17 hundreds from the graves inside the church. The royals of the Aymara also would wrap the skulls of the newborn so the head would elongate, with almost no forehead, just pointing back. The more exaggerated the better. I have images of those also MrScary. Very unusual indeed. I also came across a mummy from the high deserts in norther Chile. Still smelled after so many years Mr Scary, still smelled.
> 
> ------------------
> 
> Don't mean to get off subject. I am still enjoying the Seimens 6922 tubes. Too bad they didn't make any tubes in the shape of skulls, huh MrScary?




I would love to see those pics sounds very interesting. That would be cool, tubes in the shape of skulls. I can see it now 3 6's audio announces the 6922 Skullmania tube. hahahaha

Im still listening to the Phillips Valvo's CCA love the tri-dimensional sound it can be a bit much on some material but love it on most


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Tubes: Cleaned and treated all pins with DeOxit D100L and then G100L, wiped off excess and inserted.

  Mullard EC88 – fairly substantial hum in both channels at 0 volume. Too soft across the spectrum for me. No palpability to the highs. No real punch in the bass, did not pursue vocals
  Siemens E88CC – less hum than the Mullards by about 10dB. Bass sounded substantial, but a little tubby and bloated, not tubey. Highs better than the Mullards. Some periodic faint clicking noise on right channel. Creschendos seem a little congested. Vocals pretty good.
  Stock JJ's – dead quiet at 0 volume. Very slight hum (no signal) at full volume on both channels. Highs, very well defined, palpable. Mids, natural, clean, transparent. Bass, tight, well controlled, thunderous when called for, well extended.
   
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  So your favorite tube is the JJ's? and may I ask about this hum you are getting. I don't get any hum with any of my tubes and I have over 10 sets. For you to be getting hum there has to be something in your audio chain causing it
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 In my sampling of three sets of tubes thus far, yes, the JJ's sound the best.  Keep in mind, this is a relatively quick, short term test.  I've got maybe 400+ hours on the JJ's and the other tubes I'm rolling through, are all used stock and I'm assuming they've all been run in sufficiently.  However, it may have been many years since they were last used.  So once I've rotated through the 5 matched sets I have, besides the original JJ's, I will go back, and give the Mullard's another chance to settle in for a week or two before re-evaluating.  Any of the other pairs will get the same treatment if I think there's potential there.
   
  No, I don't have any inherent hum problems in my system, nor do I have any ground loop issues.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Perfect brad ID for Skullcandy.


----------



## USAudio

How does the Lyr compare to other hybrid, or even all-tube, headphone amps when it comes to a propensity to hum?


----------



## Uchiya

Hey guys.  I've since parted with my Lyr for a portable setup.  Ironically, I had ordered 5 sets of matched RCA 6bz7's from tubedepot prior and they arrived after I sent my amp to a buyer.  As such, I'm sure there are a few curious members here who wouldn't mind satiating their curiosity while saving their wallets a little change, inexpensive as the RCA's are.  Therefore, I'll be giving one set each away to 5 LYR owners on this thread who have not had the luck acquiring these tubes.  Please post of picture of your name, along with your Lyr, address info and I'll send you a pair.  Good Luck!  BTW, send these as a PM!  lol


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


>


 
   
   
   

  Tubes: Cleaned and treated all pins with DeOxit D100L and then G100L, wiped off excess and inserted.

  Mullard EC88 – fairly substantial hum in both channels at 0 volume. Too soft across the spectrum for me. No palpability to the highs. No real punch in the bass, did not pursue vocals
  Siemens E88CC – less hum than the Mullards by about 10dB. Bass sounded substantial, but a little tubby and bloated, not tubey. Highs better than the Mullards. Some periodic faint clicking noise on right channel. Creschendos seem a little congested. Vocals pretty good.
  Stock JJ's – dead quiet at 0 volume. Very slight hum (no signal) at full volume on both channels. Highs, very well defined, palpable. Mids, natural, clean, transparent. Bass, tight, well controlled, thunderous when called for, well extended.
   
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  So your favorite tube is the JJ's? and may I ask about this hum you are getting. I don't get any hum with any of my tubes and I have over 10 sets. For you to be getting hum there has to be something in your audio chain causing it
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 In my sampling of three sets of tubes thus far, yes, the JJ's sound the best.  Keep in mind, this is a relatively quick, short term test.  I've got maybe 400+ hours on the JJ's and the other tubes I'm rolling through, are all used stock and I'm assuming they've all been run in sufficiently.  However, it may have been many years since they were last used.  So once I've rotated through the 5 matched sets I have, besides the original JJ's, I will go back, and give the Mullard's another chance to settle in for a week or two before re-evaluating.  Any of the other pairs will get the same treatment if I think there's potential there.
   
  No, I don't have any inherent hum problems in my system, nor do I have any ground loop issues.
   



 hmmmm so some of the tubes have hum sounds like you got some questionable tubes


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


>


 


 hmmmm so some of the tubes have hum sounds like you got some questionable tubes


  No question, as with any OS tubes, they have to be evaluated and that's what I'm doing.  I'm running a pair of Telefunken E88CC's right now, and they are sounding very good.


----------



## HK_sends

I have a question...How many hours of listening/burn-in are folks giving their tubes before they form an impression on the sound?  I have about 20 sets of tubes and if I put 50 hours on each set, I need to listen for 250 consecutive nights (I only get about 4 hours of listening in one session).  It seems like some folks (including myself) are rolling tubes every other day.  I just want to give them a reasonable amount of burn-in/settling before I decide to accept/reject them.
   
  How many hours should I give a set of tubes?
   
  On that note, the GE Grey Glass tubes from ALO are sounding very sweet.  I have about ten hours on them.
   
  Inquiring minds,
  -HK sends


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have a question...How many hours of listening/burn-in are folks giving their tubes before they form an impression on the sound?  I have about 20 sets of tubes and if I put 50 hours on each set, I need to listen for 250 consecutive night (I only get about 4 hours of listening in one session).  It seems like some folks (including myself) are rolling tubes every other day.  I just want to give them a reasonable amount of burn-in/settling before I decide to accept/reject them.
> 
> How many hours should I give a set of tubes?
> 
> ...


 

 With unknown, used tubes, I plug them in and let them run for about a hour, then listen.  If there's some potential there, I might let them run for an additional 10-12 hours.  Then I evaluate them against the rest.  So far, so good.  If a set of tubes sounds bad right off the bat, like the Mullards I have, I will revisit them after I'm done going through the tubes I have for the first time.
   
  With brand new or NOS tubes, it's a different story.  The stock JJ's didn't come into their own until after at least 200 hours.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


kwkarth said:


> With unknown, used tubes, I plug them in and let them run for about a hour, then listen.  If there's some potential there, I might let them run for an additional 10-12 hours.  Then I evaluate them against the rest.  So far, so good.  If a set of tubes sounds bad right off the bat, like the Mullards I have, I will revisit them after I'm done going through the tubes I have for the first time.
> 
> With brand new or NOS tubes, it's a different story.  The stock JJ's didn't come into their own until after at least 200 hours.


 
  Thanks!  I figured that I would need to burn-in different tubes for different amounts ot time.  I am just afraid that I might be passing up some good tubes by rolling too fast as I am looking for the "next best thing".

 -HK sends


----------



## Wedge

My philosophy is that if I don't know anything about the history of the tube or its questionable I let them run-in for like 20 hours before I bother listening to them.  I kind of feel like tubes never ultimately settle out its more like going up a hill then going back down.


----------



## ZorgDK

Do you know if tubes needs to be burned in again if they haven't been used in months or years?


----------



## Wedge

I have always felt it depends on how long.  I don't know of any rules or whether it really is different or not, but if I buy a used tube and I don't think its been used in a few years I usually run them in for a few hours.  Like 10-20 hours before listening to them.


----------



## ZorgDK

Sounds like a fine idea, I don't have the patience to so myself though.


----------



## HK_sends

I was just wondering because it seems like some of us (...ahem...me) go through tubes fairly often.  I guess I need to slow down, sit back, and smell the coffee (or is that my tube burning? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks everyone,
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I was just wondering because it seems like some of us (...ahem...me) go through tubes fairly often.  I guess I need to slow down, sit back, and smell the coffee (or is that my tube burning?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I usually listen about 50-100 hours before passing a final opinion on a tube. But I have yet to pass any final judgement accept on the JJ;s which I have over 300 hours on. I may make recommendations based on initial sound. Tubes change but there is not some epihany on sound after like 200 hours IMHO.


----------



## HK_sends

I could see 50-100 hours.  I just need to stop rolling in every new set I get (beyond verifying that they work).  That's one reason I went back to the Grey Glass.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

I think it depends upon the circuit and the tubes. In using the 127 tube and even the 76 in my preamp I built there was almost no burn in for the tubes. They either sounded good or they didn't and that didn't change. I ran them at their upper limits and they ranged from being made in 1929 for my Sylvania 127 balloon mesh plates to 76 tubes made into the 1950's. The Amperex 6DJ8 I have that were actually made in Russia and sound better than any of my "real" Amperex require no burn in. Again, I think it is the circuit and operating points that will determine burn in also. I have a Quicksilver Full Function preamp that runs tubes very hard and there is almost no burn in. They also don't last very long, at least not in the first current stage.


----------



## HK_sends

Is the Lyr an amp that runs tubes hard?
   
  - HK sends
   
  P.S.- I appreciate you guys putting up with the tube n00b questions.  I have to start somewhere...


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I think it depends upon the circuit and the tubes. In using the 127 tube and even the 76 in my preamp I built there was almost no burn in for the tubes. They either sounded good or they didn't and that didn't change. I ran them at their upper limits and they ranged from being made in 1929 for my Sylvania 127 balloon mesh plates to 76 tubes made into the 1950's. The Amperex 6DJ8 I have that were actually made in Russia and sound better than any of my "real" Amperex require no burn in. Again, I think it is the circuit and operating points that will determine burn in also. I have a Quicksilver Full Function preamp that runs tubes very hard and there is almost no burn in. They also don't last very long, at least not in the first current stage.




Same with my DAC. I didn't notice any burn in with the Mullard or the Presnave that I just put in. By the way Jamato8, I just put a silver interconnect in and I never believed in the "silver sounds different" but as you had said in a previous post
Im hearing things I didn't hear before. Actually the change was dramatic


----------



## jamato8

Not to start a "IC's are just tuning and sliver is brite", but correct silver and copper just conduct, obviously and correctly done silver, annealed correctly, will sound neutral. Silver has the lowest resistance of the three main used metals, of silver, copper and gold. I do not like silver plated copper as a rule. With that you have two different metals of unlike resistance. Also, correctly done silver requires very little burn in. 
   
  I am back to trying the Canada 6BZ7 but I do like the Siemens as, for me, very true across the spectrum.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Not to start a "IC's are just tuning and sliver is brite", but correct silver and copper just conduct, obviously and correctly done silver, annealed correctly, will sound neutral. Silver has the lowest resistance of the three main used metals, of silver, copper and gold. I do not like silver plated copper as a rule. With that you have two different metals of unlike resistance. Also, correctly done silver requires very little burn in.
> 
> I am back to trying the Canada 6BZ7 but I do like the Siemens as, for me, very true across the spectrum.




Cool thanks for the info.. I just got in my second pair of Canada 6BZ7 today Im going to pull the Valvo's for a bit and try them. To bad the first set was bad ... Ohh well
hahah wait a sec I haven't tried them yet better make sure they are good.


----------



## MrScary

*Sighs* Well one of the RCA Canada doesn't even make sound the other is fine switched channels as usual to test well thats the second bad set I got. I give on the Canada 6BZ7


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You are the ultimate tester. I never saw someone get so many bad tubes. I guess you are getting the bad ones out of the way to begin with and the rest of your life should be fine. :^)
   
  I have the Canada 6BZ7's back in and to be honest, they sound better and not thin. Very nice.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> You are the ultimate tester. I never saw someone get so many bad tubes. I guess you are getting the bad ones out of the way to begin with and the rest of your life should be fine. :^)
> 
> I have the Canada 6BZ7's back in and to be honest, they sound better and not thin. Very nice.




Well I think I have one good of each from two sets but I dropped one of them and it fell behind my stereo rack hahaha so I have to get out the flashlight to try to find it.. Its a pretty big stacked rack
Yeah seems like Im having bad luck out of 4 sets that came in 2 were bad.. Luckily the expensive ones the Valvos and Siemens were fine


----------



## MrScary

Yeah I have one good canada 6BZ7 from each set one set has white lettering the other has red lettering hahahah well I will use balance to see if one sounds out of sync with the other in sound.
Whew! one good set.


Well I tried the Canada 6BZ7 they are very smooth interesting tube I will have to burn them in this next week


----------



## Rope

I will recieve the Mullard 6DJ8/ECC88 IEC's next week.  If their sound is as Wedge and LiqTenExp described, I will no doubt soil myself!


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





rope said:


> I will recieve the Mullard 6DJ8/ECC88 IEC's next week.  If their sound is as Wedge and LiqTenExp described, I will no doubt soil myself!


 
  Images of the tubes will be fine but none of the soiling please. Oh no, I just got an image in my head. . . I have to turn the music up really loud now . .


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





rope said:


> I will recieve the Mullard 6DJ8/ECC88 IEC's next week.  If their sound is as Wedge and LiqTenExp described, I will no doubt soil myself!


 

  
  I actually didn't hear the Mullard ECC88, only the CV2492.  Just want to say that again.  I really don't want you to soil yourself, but I am a little worried about the Mullard 6DJ8s, as Kwkarth, whom I believe has a very good ear, had a struggle with them.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I actually didn't hear the Mullard ECC88, only the CV2492.  Just want to say that again.  I really don't want you to soil yourself, but I am a little worried about the Mullard 6DJ8s, as Kwkarth, whom I believe has a very good ear, had a struggle with them.


 

 Well, that response made me soil myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Even though Kwkarth has a good ear, he tends to stuggle with many things. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  BTW, after Kwkarth reads this, I may not be posting anymore.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> Well, that response made me soil myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What is it that I struggle with?


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Images of the tubes will be fine but none of the soiling please. Oh no, I just got an image in my head. . . I have to turn the music up really loud now . .


 

  
  Sorry.  I should have disclaimed the "soil" portion, with, "I can tell you, but I can't un-tell you."


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Well, that response made me soil myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm pretty sure that Kwkarth has a bad set of Mullards he gets noise with them


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> What is it that I struggle with?


 

 Plusses and Minuses?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> Plusses and Minuses?


 
   
  Ahh!  Yes, sometimes they cancel each other out.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Are there any tubes for the Lyr that tend to put emphasis on the high frequencies and treble?


----------



## HK_sends

I'll have to listen to them again, but I thought the Gold Lion 6922s did...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> Are there any tubes for the Lyr that tend to put emphasis on the high frequencies and treble?




RCA 6BZ7's are cheap and they like the high frequencies there are others what are you trying to match up?


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I'll have to listen to them again, but I thought the Gold Lion 6922s did...
> 
> -HK sends


 


  That's great, thanks! I happen to have ordered a pair on Cryoset. They are apparently super cryo treated. Not sure if it does a difference, but it wasn't too much more, and I guess I need to try to find out.


  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> RCA 6BZ7's are cheap and they like the high frequencies there are others what are you trying to match up?


 
   
  Alright, thanks for the tip.

 I'm trying to get a possibly matched pair of tubes for the Lyr to use with an HE-6.
   
  Also, I use a Keces DA-151 as a DAC. I suppose that will be the bottleneck of my setup, right?


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> That's great, thanks! I happen to have ordered a pair on Cryoset. They are apparently super cryo treated. Not sure if it does a difference, but it wasn't too much more, and I guess I need to try to find out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have a pair of 6N23P's from Cryoset and they sound a bit more open larger soundstage than my 60's or 80's 6N23p's I think the Cryo does something hahaha not sure what..
I dont really see where the a Keces DA-151 will be problem it does 44/96 most material out there is only 44 so I don't see a prob.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Do you have any places where you like shopping for tubes where the shipping isn't too high? I'm trying to find bargains on eBay, but shipping is making it hard...


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> Do you have any places where you like shopping for tubes where the shipping isn't too high? I'm trying to find bargains on eBay, but shipping is making it hard...




There are some online tube sellers that may be a bit cheaper than ebay what are you looking for? I can take a look for you


----------



## Benjamin6264

I'm pretty much trying to find bargain NOS tubes to try out on the Lyr and see if I can stumble upon a few jewels. As I said, good highs and treble would be what I'm looking for mainly.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





benjamin6264 said:


> Do you have any places where you like shopping for tubes where the shipping isn't too high? I'm trying to find bargains on eBay, but shipping is making it hard...


 

 I refuse to tube shop on eBay.  For the most part, tube descriptions are vague, and not only do you not know for certain what you're buying, shipping is any where from 10 - $15.00.  Shipping for a pair of tubes should run right around 3 - $5.00.  I just paid $4.25 shipping for a pair of Mullard Tubes.
   
  Tube Depot
  rutubes
  analogtubes
  cryoset
  tubetronic
  tubes-store
   
   
  There are many reputable tube vendors.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Alright, thanks a bunch for the info.
   
  Last question : What exactly are Mullard tubes? I thought it was a brand, but I see RCA Mullards and I'm a bit confused.


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> Alright, thanks a bunch for the info.
> 
> Last question : What exactly are Mullard tubes? I thought it was a brand, but I see RCA Mullards and I'm a bit confused.




There are many mullards just like there are many Valvo's they used the names for many companies


----------



## Benjamin6264

Ah, I see. That clarifies things, thank you.


----------



## sperandeo

After everything I read about these I want to try them. 

I was going to order them from eBay, but I find it risky to save around $10.00 (if that)..

At least I know I'll be getting a real matched set from Cryoset. The 3 venders I contacted on eBay told me there's were NOT matched. 

[/quote]

cool join the 23 club even though Im running my Amperex Gold label Pq's at the moment I got a new cable for my LCD-2's and it brightened thing sup so I had to compensate with the tubes[/quote]

I am loving the sound of my 6N23P's. But I have noticed a little tube buzz in the Lyr. I don't remember hearing this buzz with the original tubes. Is it normal with some tubes to have and accept that tiny tube buzz???


----------



## WNBC

Which cable did you get?  I'm using the stock LCD-2 cable and it sounds pretty good to my ears.
   
  Some tubes have more noise than others.  

  


> cool join the 23 club even though Im running my Amperex Gold label Pq's at the moment I got a new cable for my LCD-2's and it brightened thing sup so I had to compensate with the tubes


 
 I am loving the sound of my 6N23P's. But I have noticed a little tube buzz in the Lyr. I don't remember hearing this buzz with the original tubes. Is it normal with some tubes to have and accept that tiny tube buzz???


  [/quote]


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> After everything I read about these I want to try them.
> 
> I was going to order them from eBay, but I find it risky to save around $10.00 (if that)..
> 
> At least I know I'll be getting a real matched set from Cryoset. The 3 venders I contacted on eBay told me there's were NOT matched.


 
 cool join the 23 club even though Im running my Amperex Gold label Pq's at the moment I got a new cable for my LCD-2's and it brightened thing sup so I had to compensate with the tubes[/quote]

 I am loving the sound of my 6N23P's. But I have noticed a little tube buzz in the Lyr. I don't remember hearing this buzz with the original tubes. Is it normal with some tubes to have and accept that tiny tube buzz???


  [/quote]


 I dont get any noise with my super cryoset of 6n23p's most tubes if they have good specs shouldn't make any noise hearing a buzz could mean a ground loop or bad tubes .I would check you whole audio chain.  I just got a pair of Canana RCA's and they buzzed
  bad tubes so I threw them away faster than Schiit hahahah


----------



## MrScary

The Norse cable is awesome with the LCD-2's thats what IM running right now love it. When I put it on it really increased the resolution
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Which cable did you get?  I'm using the stock LCD-2 cable and it sounds pretty good to my ears.
> 
> Some tubes have more noise than others.


----------



## WNBC

I've read some good things about that combo of Norse + LCD-2 + Lyr.  Because Norse doesn't have a website with details, how much is the Norse cable?  Also looking at the usual suspects from ALO and Double Helix. 
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> The Norse cable is awesome with the LCD-2's thats what IM running right now love it. When I put it on it really increased the resolution


----------



## MrScary

Its only 149.99 and competes with the other cables thats for a 10footer like I got if you want it shorter it will be cheaper you just email them and they send you a paypal invoice..
 they send a bunch of pictures etc and you get to pick the choke of your choice I picked the rosewood choke to go with the LCD-2's
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I've read some good things about that combo of Norse + LCD-2 + Lyr.  Because Norse doesn't have a website with details, how much is the Norse cable?  Also looking at the usual suspects from ALO and Double Helix.


----------



## kwkarth

Here's a question for all of you tubeophiles out there;
   
  What effect does Cryo treatment have on the life of a tube?  I would think with the different expansion/contraction coefficients of glass and the metal pins, one might compromise the vacuum in a tube with cryo treatment.  What do you all think?
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Here's a question for all of you tubeophiles out there;
> 
> What effect does Cryo treatment have on the life of a tube?  I would think with the different expansion/contraction coefficients of glass and the metal pins, one might compromise the vacuum in a tube with cryo treatment.  What do you all think?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 
  Great question,
  I have read up on it and my understanding is since its done at such a slow rate i.e. bringing it down to -300 degrees celisius and then back up slowly it does no harm.  I do know that my super cryo set of 6n23p's does have a larger sound stage than my other sets of 6n23p's
  I think the cryo process would depend on the equipment used it has got to be expensive equipment that is. Im kinda hung on the whole thing I admit if I had my choice I would have all my tubes cryo'd.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Great question,
> I have read up on it and my understanding is since its done at such a slow rate i.e. bringing it down to -300 degrees celisius and then back up slowly it does no harm.  I do know that my super cryo set of 6n23p's does have a larger sound stage than my other sets of 6n23p's
> I think the cryo process would depend on the equipment used it has got to be expensive equipment that is. Im kinda hung on the whole thing I admit if I had my choice I would have all my tubes cryo'd.


 

 Tubes below absolute zero?  I doubt anything below absolute zero, but what do I know.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Tubes below absolute zero?  I doubt anything below absolute zero, but what do I know.


 


  I meant -300F
  sorry
   
  Cryos's statement
   
  http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/about_us.php?osCsid=15e6aff90dd2b69e9518be2eed7c9c6a


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I meant -300F
> sorry
> 
> Cryos's statement
> ...


 
  Wait, I thought Absolute Zero was -273.15 °C.  IOW, 0 K, IOW, -459.67 °F.  What am I missing?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Wait, I thought Absolute Zero was -273.15 °C.  IOW, 0 K, IOW, -459.67 °F.  What am I missing?


 
   

  NM, you're talking about 88°C ABOVE absolute 0.  In some articles I've read, full liquid immersion cryo is much more effective.


----------



## MrScary

Quote:  

   NM, you're talking about 88°C ABOVE absolute 0.  In some articles I've read, full liquid immersion cryo is much more effective.



   
   
  you mean they actually dunk the tubes in liquid nitrogen man I would hate to drop one and forget it was liquid nitrogen and put my hand in there that would be a sight.. hahahaha


----------



## WNBC

Thanks, that sounds very reasonable in comparison to some of the other cables I've been looking at.  
   
  Burning in my National Electronics Japanese 6922 from Tubemonger right now.  Too early to make any major statements but they appear to be detailed and neutral sounding (maybe less tubey-sounding).  A bit more noise than the Mullards when you push the levels up.  In comparison to the Mullards or Cryoset 6N23P, which sounded pretty good right off the bat, the NE Japanese 6922 do not have the wow factor of the two I mentioned.  Let's check back in 100+ hours from now, maybe the wow is on the way.
   

  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Its only 149.99 and competes with the other cables thats for a 10footer like I got if you want it shorter it will be cheaper you just email them and they send you a paypal invoice..
> they send a bunch of pictures etc and you get to pick the choke of your choice I picked the rosewood choke to go with the LCD-2's


----------



## Benjamin6264

Nobody ever managed to reach absolute zero. Technically, any object that would reach it would dissapear.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





benjamin6264 said:


> Nobody ever managed to reach absolute zero. Technically, any object that would reach it would dissapear.


 


 That explains what happened to my wife.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





rope said:


> That explains what happened to my wife.


 
  hahahahaha


----------



## Kremer930

I like that one too. Ha ha ha. 

Don't you need a cold ex wife to make that final jump to zero kelvin? Just kidding. My wife is great. Especially great if she supports me buying the new Schiit DAC and amp.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> My wife is great. Especially great if she supports me buying the new Schiit DAC and amp.


 


  I can't wait for the Schiit DAC 
   
  I'm getting my Asgard upgraded to Lyr, and my LA7000 changed for an HE-6; now all I need to upgrade is my Keces DA-151 or it will most likely be the weak link. A maximum Schiit setup would be pretty awesome, as the DAC and amp are very likely to harmonize well


----------



## MrScary

Well I got in the Matsushita Japan 6922 E88CC tubes. Mullard Tooling. National label and box tubes NOS in




Immediate impressions without breakin:

1. sound like Mullard E88c's
2. Maybe a bit better highs than the mullards time will tell as they break in
3. Bass is strong mids nice and upfront

As I break these in I'm sure they will change but they sound like Mullards IMHO makes sense they used the Mullard tooling.

they came in a cool Tupperware container kinda cool can store couple sets of tubes in it.


----------



## WNBC

I've had mine in since this morning, sound really good when paired with my Fischer Audio FA-011.  I agree with points 2 and 3.  It's shaping out to be another solid all-around tube.  
   
  Quote: 





> Immediate impressions without breakin:
> 
> 1. sound like Mullard E88c's
> 2. Maybe a bit better highs than the mullards time will tell as they break in
> ...


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> I've had mine in since this morning, sound really good when paired with my Fischer Audio FA-011.  I agree with points 2 and 3.  It's shaping out to be another solid all-around tube.




Yeah sounds like a consensus all around good tube. The more I listen they are not as smooth as the Mullards switching up music to get a better feeling


----------



## MrScary

Well I felt that my last avatar was not appropriate for Jamato8, so I think this one is better Krakus the anti-Santa Claus makes more sense with MrScary


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I like that one too. Ha ha ha.
> 
> Don't you need a cold ex wife to make that final jump to zero kelvin? Just kidding. My wife is great. Especially great if she supports me buying the new Schiit DAC and amp.


 

 It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well I felt that my last avatar was not appropriate for Jamato8, so I think this one is better Krakus the anti-Santa Claus makes more sense with MrScary


 
  Rather startling MrScary, startling. They practice black magic on this island and there are ghosts. Nan Madol was a burial site for the kings of the island. A German archeologist thought it would be cool to dig up some of the bones and artifacts. He was the first one to do it and died the next day. As others did this they diminished the power of the the place and now anyone can go there but the artifacts are gone. The magic on the island remains with some bad and some good consequences. Missionaries have tried to wash it away but they have had little affect. 
  --------------------
   
  So on the tubes, while the tooling is the same, the actual materials can differ as in cathode coating and the expertise of the assemblers. It is the metallurgy that was often the secret, more than anything else and that didn't always transfer. That is part of the problem with the modern tubes made today. They don't quite have all the little secrets that were gained over the years preceding todays tubes. This information has been lost as those who possessed it die. I have a friend who worked for RCA back in the tube days and had several patents through RCA for design of tubes. Often the notes for formulas were just plain lost as the tube era declined and that was that.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Rather startling MrScary, startling. They practice black magic on this island and there are ghosts. Nan Madol was a burial site for the kings of the island. A German archeologist thought it would be cool to dig up some of the bones and artifacts. He was the first one to do it and died the next day. As others did this they diminished the power of the the place and now anyone can go there but the artifacts are gone. The magic on the island remains with some bad and some good consequences. Missionaries have tried to wash it away but they have had little affect.
> --------------------
> 
> So on the tubes, while the tooling is the same, the actual materials can differ as in cathode coating and the expertise of the assemblers. It is the metallurgy that was often the secret, more than anything else and that didn't always transfer. That is part of the problem with the modern tubes made today. They don't quite have all the little secrets that were gained over the years preceding todays tubes. This information has been lost as those who possessed it die. I have a friend who worked for RCA back in the tube days and had several patents through RCA for design of tubes. Often the notes for formulas were just plain lost as the tube era declined and that was that.




I just put up Krakus as a joke Jamato8 I know those Islands have some strange rituals Im putting up my skull that is quite a bit less frightening.


----------



## mhamel

Well, my "bargain" Mullard 6DJ8s from the UK were too good to be true.   They sounded *great* - but after several days of use, one of them has developed a crackling/static noise once it gets warmed up.    I'm going to pick up some Deoxit and give the pins a good cleaning, but it doesn't seem like that would be the issue.   Nothing lost in trying, though.  On the up-side, even if that doesn't work, I do still have one good one that I can keep around for my DAC. 
   
  I switched over to a set of Zenith black plate 6BQ7As that were another cheap-ish eBay find... one tube completely DOA, the other sounds... for lack of any other way to describe it,  as if you're listening to an old handheld radio through a long tube.  They were represented as fully-tested and the seller has very good feedback, so I'll see if he's willing to do anything about it, but most likely a pair for the circular file.
   
  Now I've rolled in a pair of Matsushita/National PCC88s (7DJ8).  They're NOS, so are going to need some time to break in.  Initial impressions are - decent low extension, a bit full in the mid-bass, very nice mids, highs aren't rolled off, but a bit laid-back.  Very smooth sound, and they are dead-quiet.
   
      -Mike


----------



## jamato8

Many will use the 7DJ8, which a 7.3 filament voltage tube vs the 6DJ8 and like tubes with a 6.3 voltage filament. This does fall outside of the normal range for the filament voltage and some purport very good results but there are various opinions on this. A tube operated at say 5 percent less than its stated filament voltage can often have a longer life but 5% is quite a bit different compared to a drop of 1 volt or about 13%.


----------



## mhamel

Jamoto,
   
  Yes, I'm familiar with the differences.  I've read both sides of that as well, and while I have only tried a few 7DJ8s in my gear, they've seemed to work well.
   
       -Mike


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Many will use the 7DJ8, which a 7.3 filament voltage tube vs the 6DJ8 and like tubes with a 6.3 voltage filament. This does fall outside of the normal range for the filament voltage and some purport very good results but there are various opinions on this. A tube operated at say 5 percent less than its stated filament voltage can often have a longer life but 5% is quite a bit different compared to a drop of 1 volt or about 13%.




I liike the new avatar Jamato8 interesting.

If you have a full size version I can add it to my site 

http://skullmania.stumbleupon.com


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well I got in the Matsushita Japan 6922 E88CC tubes. Mullard Tooling. National label and box tubes NOS in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 How many tubes can this container hold? Did you order from tubemonger? I may get my next set from them for the bonus container.
   
  Can you describe how these sound compared to the Cryo 6N23P? I like the Cryos for their sense of air and separation but I'd like mids to be a bit more forward.


----------



## jamato8

The Japanese tubes should have, will have a different sound. Even if they have the same materials. Mullard did a great job but the Japanese took vacuum very serious and did some of the hardest vacuum of any tube manufactures, which in my book is a big plus. I have some EL34's from some Japanese manufacture (they are very rare and no one has identified who the Japanese manufacture was) that have been used extremely hard and they were used before I got them. They still sound excellent and outshine any of the X2 Mullards I have and any other EL34's I have tried. Amazing tubes is all I can say. 
   
  -----
   
  I have an image of skulls that shows even more of a dip behind the brow line, the skull has been so compressed.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> The Japanese tubes should have, will have a different sound. Even if they have the same materials. Mullard did a great job but the Japanese took vacuum very serious and did some of the hardest vacuum of any tube manufactures, which in my book is a big plus. I have some EL34's from some Japanese manufacture (they are very rare and no one has identified who the Japanese manufacture was) that have been used extremely hard and they were used before I got them. They still sound excellent and outshine any of the X2 Mullards I have and any other EL34's I have tried. Amazing tubes is all I can say.
> 
> -----
> 
> I have an image of skulls that shows even more of a dip behind the brow line, the skull has been so compressed.




Cool info on the japanese tubes.. Do you have the skulls in your photo album? I didn't see any


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> How many tubes can this container hold? Did you order from tubemonger? I may get my next set from them for the bonus container.
> 
> Can you describe how these sound compared to the Cryo 6N23P? I like the Cryos for their sense of air and separation but I'd like mids to be a bit more forward.




I will have to do a side by side comparison of the two tubes also the Nationals aren't broken in less than 2 hours on them give me a few days and I will compare the two


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Cool info on the japanese tubes.. Do you have the skulls in your photo album? I didn't see any


 
  No, I don't have any of the work I did in South America on my website. Some is supposed to go into a book. I can post the skull image. I only have the one with me. I have many others but they are on a hard drive in storage back in Tucson. I even have a skull of a 1 or 2 year old that was being formed. Of course they started right after birth forming the skull.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> No, I don't have any of the work I did in South America on my website. Some is supposed to go into a book. I can post the skull image. I only have the one with me. I have many others but they are on a hard drive in storage back in Tucson. I even have a skull of a 1 or 2 year old that was being formed. Of course they started right after birth forming the skull.




Cool if you would post the skull I would appreciate it . Since I collect skull pictures . They fascinate me. Yeah I think it would be neat if you had on your pbase site a skull area that would really be neat some may think its morbid but I don't look at it that way. Guess its just me


----------



## DemonicLemming

That's a weird-looking noggin in your avatar.  Wasn't there a tribe of American Indians who did the same thing, or something very similar?  The name of the tribe escapes me at the moment.
   
  Giving the GE 6BZ7 tubes some more listening, they're actually a bit more bass-light than I had thought.  Was listening mostly to vocal and acoustic stuff, but I played a couple songs earlier that I know have a lot of bass impact, and the GEs tamed that a lot.  Doesn't bother me a whole lot, but I do wish I had a better method for hot-swapping tubes (with the amp off, but hot tubes) so I could jump back to the Amperex tubes for some stuff.  Plus, hell, with the amount of tubes I have now, it's fun to switch them up once in a while, anyway.
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> No, I don't have any of the work I did in South America on my website. Some is supposed to go into a book. I can post the skull image. I only have the one with me. I have many others but they are on a hard drive in storage back in Tucson. I even have a skull of a 1 or 2 year old that was being formed. Of course they started right after birth forming the skull.


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> That's a weird-looking noggin in your avatar.  Wasn't there a tribe of American Indians who did the same thing, or something very similar?  The name of the tribe escapes me at the moment.
> 
> Giving the GE 6BZ7 tubes some more listening, they're actually a bit more bass-light than I had thought.  Was listening mostly to vocal and acoustic stuff, but I played a couple songs earlier that I know have a lot of bass impact, and the GEs tamed that a lot.  Doesn't bother me a whole lot, but I do wish I had a better method for hot-swapping tubes (with the amp off, but hot tubes) so I could jump back to the Amperex tubes for some stuff.  Plus, hell, with the amount of tubes I have now, it's fun to switch them up once in a while, anyway.




Dude I hot jump all the time get the Electro harmonix tube glove its only 11.00 I yank out hot tubes all the time and then put in others and swap back and forth ahahahah let me find the link..


This thing rocks allows you to hot swap in a sec

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=072-899&FTR=tube%20glove


----------



## MrScary

it rocks


----------



## jamato8

Well the tubes don't really get that hot but then you need to let the caps discharge but they do that pretty quick when you turn the amp off. 
   
   
  Tiwanaku is a site near Lago Titicaca on the Bolivian side of the lake. The skulls are from that area. Tiwanaku is thought to be an Aymara Indian site. The Aymara Indians are in northern Chile, southern Bolivia and Peru and were the last people the Inca conquered though the Inca in accounts stated they were the most difficult people they had come up against. There is no absolute certainty that the skulls are Aymara though it has been researched for over 100 to 150 years. The Aymara say the site was theirs so that would mean the skulls are Aymara and I tend to side with the indigenous peoples claims. 
   
  Having the image for an avatar is most likely very disrespectful so I will take it down soon.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Well the tubes don't really get the hot but then you need to let the caps discharge but they do that pretty quick when you turn the amp off.
> 
> 
> Tiwanaku is a site near Lago Titicaca on the Bolivian side of the lake. The skulls are from that area. Tiwanaku is thought to be an Aymara Indian site. The Aymara Indians are in northern Chile, southern Bolivia and Peru and were the last people the Inca conquered though the Inca in accounts stated they were the most difficult people they had come up against. There is no absolute certainty that the skulls are Aymara though it has been researched for over 100 to 150 years. The Aymara say the site was theirs so that would mean the skulls are Aymara and I tend to side with the indigenous peoples claims.




wow very interesting


----------



## Benjamin6264

I have another few questions for you guys : 
   
I bought a few bargain tubes from two separate eBay sales by the same seller. Inside one of them was a Raytheon tube which apparently tested for 5500/5250. The other included a tube of unknown brand which tested for 5250/5500. Problem is that I am very new to tubes and don't know much about them.
   
  - What do those numbers mean anyway?
  - Assuming that they are from the same brand or have similar sound signature, could you consider those tubes as "matched" (One testing for A/B and the other for B/A)?
  - If they're not matched, how big of a difference would in make in my listening experience with Lyr/HE-6 (always assuming that they are both Raytheon or offer same sound signature)?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> I have another few questions for you guys :
> 
> I bought a few bargain tubes from two separate eBay sales by the same seller. Inside one of them was a Raytheon tube which apparently tested for 5500/5250. The other included a tube of unknown brand which tested for 5250/5500. Problem is that I am very new to tubes and don't know much about them.
> 
> ...




So you bought tubes of unknown brand from one seller? and the other seller had testing numbers ?

Can you send the two links to the ebay auctions I will take a look..


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> So you bought tubes of unknown brand from one seller? and the other seller had testing numbers ?
> 
> Can you send the two links to the ebay auctions I will take a look..


 

 They were actually from the same seller, so the tests were all done the same way. They weren't too pricey so I gave them a try.
   
  http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370492252492&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
  http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320698538154&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
   
  The unknown brand tube is in the second link.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





benjamin6264 said:


> I have another few questions for you guys :
> 
> I bought a few bargain tubes from two separate eBay sales by the same seller. Inside one of them was a Raytheon tube which apparently tested for 5500/5250. The other included a tube of unknown brand which tested for 5250/5500. Problem is that I am very new to tubes and don't know much about them.
> 
> ...


 

 Generally those numbers correlate to some scale based on the tester.  Those tubes numbers do not necessarily mean that they are matched.


----------



## LiqTenExp

I left my Lyr with Wedge to play with for the week or so.  He might have some more opinions on the tubes we have rolled through in the past.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Generally those numbers correlate to some scale based on the tester.  Those tubes numbers do not necessarily mean that they are matched.


 

 But what's the difference between a tube that tests for A/B and one that tests for B/A? In other words, what do those numbers mean?


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





benjamin6264 said:


> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370492252492&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320698538154&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
> 
> The unknown brand tube is in the second link.
> ...


 

 I forgot to point out : I'm pretty sure that the unknown brand tube is the one in the middle of the picture as we can faintly see a "SOL" on the first, and the third is obviously RCA.


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> They were actually from the same seller, so the tests were all done the same way. They weren't too pricey so I gave them a try.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370492252492&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320698538154&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
> ...




The problem I see is you want to put the same type of tube in the Lyr. The Lyr has two tubes left and right channel you don't want to put a tunsol in the right channel and a RCA in the left.

Out of both sets looks like you have two RCA tubes use those together the rest are ummm kinda useless


----------



## jamato8

I am back to using the Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plate. Very exceptional. Solid bass, dynamic and detailed. I look forward to having access to my store of 6DJ8 types.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I am back to using the Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plate. Very exceptional. Solid bass, dynamic and detailed. I look forward to having access to my store of 6DJ8 types.




I have a few more sets coming in one is the Sylvania's look forward to hearing them.


----------



## Misterrogers

I ordered a quad of Brimar Ediswan CV2492 E88CC 6922 Tubes. Anyone have experience with these? From what I've been able to read, Brimar tubes are good. Haven't found too much on 'Ediswan' types.


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I ordered a quad of Brimar Ediswan CV2492 E88CC 6922 Tubes. Anyone have experience with these? From what I've been able to read, Brimar tubes are good. Haven't found too much on 'Ediswan' types.


 


  i haven't heard them, but i've been thinking about getting them. from what i've read, i have a feeling they're superb


----------



## DemonicLemming

I have some Brimar E88CC tubes, and they're one of my favorites with the LCD-2s.
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I ordered a quad of Brimar Ediswan CV2492 E88CC 6922 Tubes. Anyone have experience with these? From what I've been able to read, Brimar tubes are good. Haven't found too much on 'Ediswan' types.


----------



## WNBC

6B7Z generates a lot of heat.  Anybody using a small fan to cool off their amp?  Just thinking ahead to the Summer and thinking of getting a quiet desktop fan.  No AC in the Pacific NW.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> 6B7Z generates a lot of heat.  Anybody using a small fan to cool off their amp?  Just thinking ahead to the Summer and thinking of getting a quiet desktop fan.  No AC in the Pacific NW.


 
  Just don't use your amp for the week of summer.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> 6B7Z generates a lot of heat.  Anybody using a small fan to cool off their amp?  Just thinking ahead to the Summer and thinking of getting a quiet desktop fan.  No AC in the Pacific NW.




Ouch No AC hahah would die down here in Texas without it.


----------



## Misterrogers

Dropped in some GE 6BQ7s today. Bought a quad of them 3 of 4 are good. Very nice. These are completely different from the Westinghouse 6BQ7s, which were flat, dull and lifeless. They need some burn, but this may take the place of my Cryo 23s as my preferred tubes. We'll see how the Brimar's fair.


----------



## WNBC

Maybe 2 weeks if necessary.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Maybe it's overkill to cool off the amp.   I recall reading that some people do so possibly to prolong life of amp or tubes.
   
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Just don't use your amp for the week of summer.


----------



## Rope

Without question, heat is the biggest killer of electronics, on the other hand, amplifiers need to build a certain amount of heat to perform optimally.  If the Lyr becomes hot enough so that you're unable to place your hand on top (not on the tubes) and leave it for extended periods of time, fan it.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I am back to using the Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plate. Very exceptional. Solid bass, dynamic and detailed. I look forward to having access to my store of 6DJ8 types.




I just got my Sylvania 6BZY's in I concur with your assessment they also don't appear to have any thinness to them nice Bass good midrange highs are not overbearing.
The set I got was made in the USA first set I have that was made in the US hahaha. They sound good worth the 4.99.


----------



## MrScary

I also got in a quad set of GE 6BZ7 in
My immediate impressions are they sound a little fuller than the Sylvania's bit better midrange and they have some air
they do however sound similar to both the RCA and Sylvania just a bit more mids and added air IMHO.
I think these are a great substitute for the newer 6N1P's one can pickup a quality tube that sounds better IMHO for 9.99 for 4 NOS
Also the twin triodes look cool lit up


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mrscary said:


> I also got in a quad set of GE 6BZ7 in
> My immediate impressions are they sound a little fuller than the Sylvania's bit better midrange and they have some air
> they do however sound similar to both the RCA and Sylvania just a bit more mids and added air IMHO.
> I think these are a great substitute for the newer 6N1P's one can pickup a quality tube that sounds better IMHO for 9.99 for 4 NOS


 
  These are my favorite tubes so far (until the Mullards show up).
   
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> These are my favorite tubes so far (until the Mullards show up).
> 
> -HK sends




These are my play tubes back goes in my Valvo CCA 1966's will break the GE's in over the weekend.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Krell stuff always freaks me out, because of the insanely high operating temperatures they produce - when working normally.  Did some abnormal testing on one, and the case actually got hot enough to completely melt the rubber feet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  I haven't noticed that my Lyr gets hot enough to be worrisome, although it does get pretty warm.  I'm guessing because it's pretty biased towards Class A operation (at least, I recall reading that somewhere).
  
  Quote: 





rope said:


> Without question, heat is the biggest killer of electronics, on the other hand, amplifiers need to build a certain amount of heat to perform optimally.  If the Lyr becomes hot enough so that you're unable to place your hand on top (not on the tubes) and leave it for extended periods of time, fan it.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> Krell stuff always freaks me out, because of the insanely high operating temperatures they produce - when working normally.  Did some abnormal testing on one, and the case actually got hot enough to completely melt the rubber feet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Efficiency in single digits will do that...
   
  The Lyr's best case efficiency is 40% if all the numbers on Schiit's site are accurate.  There aren't as many numbers on the Asgard's page, but being lazy and assuming 1wpc would give 6% efficiency.


----------



## DemonicLemming

$10 for 4?  Damn, and I thought two for $18 shipped wasn't bad.
   
  I've got a small stack going, though...
   

  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I also got in a quad set of GE 6BZ7 in
> My immediate impressions are they sound a little fuller than the Sylvania's bit better midrange and they have some air
> they do however sound similar to both the RCA and Sylvania just a bit more mids and added air IMHO.
> I think these are a great substitute for the newer 6N1P's one can pickup a quality tube that sounds better IMHO for 9.99 for 4 NOS
> Also the twin triodes look cool lit up


----------



## WNBC

You need a backup amp just for burning tubes
  
  Quote: 





> These are my play tubes back goes in my Valvo CCA 1966's will break the GE's in over the weekend.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> You need a backup amp just for burning tubes




hahaha I do need another amp hahaha for burn in .Interesting to see what Schitt comes out with I doubt we see anything before next year but I may be wrong.


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> $10 for 4?  Damn, and I thought two for $18 shipped wasn't bad.
> 
> I've got a small stack going, though...




hahaha yes you do have a stack I will have to stack mine they are a mess right now.. Need to get something to store the tubes in hmmm


----------



## Rope

Any time you're dealing with strictly class A amplifiers, the heat index increases significantly, since the amp can only shed unused watts in the form of heat.  A A/B class amplifiers will run warmer than class A/B, although in the majority of cases the class A power is totally utilized, therefore, those watts are not converted to heat.


----------



## mayassa

Well I received my amp and should have my DAC tomorrow, so far with my 650's I'm pretty happy. And after reading a billion posts on this thread I thought maybe we should list all the different tubes with the different attributes and then vote on them. Maybe if I get more time on my hands.....


----------



## HK_sends

Speak of the devil, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the first of the Mullards have arrived!  I got a set of the E88CC CV2492 tubes from TubeMonger and I just put them in.  After only 15 minutes, the GE 6BZ7s are no longer my favorite tube.  I really understand why people hold these tubes in high regard.  Now, to more listening/burn-in! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

Got some Mullard 6DJ8 ECC88 (Blackburn Plant 1969) today from an Ebay seller.  Used and likely broken in already for $41.  Very smooth, punchy, upfront mids.  Good bass emphasis as well. Seems to be common themes among these Mullards.  I think I like these Mullard 6DJ8 more than my Mullard CV2493 but the latter could use a little more burn time.  Seems like I can also drive these 6DJ8 pretty hard in terms of levels and the sound is holding.  Maybe that's due to the LCD-2.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Got some Mullard 6DJ8 ECC88 (Blackburn Plant 1969) today from an Ebay seller.  Used and likely broken in already for $41.  Very smooth, punchy, upfront mids.  Good bass emphasis as well. Seems to be common theme among these Mullards.  I think I like these Mullard 6DJ8 more than my Mullard CV2493 but the latter could use a little more burn time.  Seems like I can also drive these 6DJ8 pretty hard in terms of levels and the sound is holding.  Maybe that's due to the LCD-2.




Cool I saw a couple sets of those for sale nice price.. Yeah one of the things Im seeing on this forum is the Generic mention of Mullard. There are many mullards many variations. Glad to see you have a comparison point.
I will be picking up a set soon but will probably pay out the Schiit to get the ones I want. Last set I'm buying so I'm not too worried about price. I had a Mullard in my Dac but it was a bit too muddy.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Got some Mullard 6DJ8 ECC88 (Blackburn Plant 1969) today from an Ebay seller.  Used and likely broken in already for $41.  Very smooth, punchy, upfront mids.  Good bass emphasis as well. Seems to be common theme among these Mullards.  I think I like these Mullard 6DJ8 more than my Mullard CV2493 but the latter could use a little more burn time.


 
  I've got a set of those coming from Israel and look forward to listening to those as well. You are right, I noticed the bass right off the bat, but the overall sound is well rounded and smooth.  I like these tubes!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Efficiency in single digits will do that...
> 
> The Lyr's best case efficiency is 40% if all the numbers on Schiit's site are accurate.  There aren't as many numbers on the Asgard's page, but being lazy and assuming 1wpc would give 6% efficiency.


 
  "Efficiency" is not an appropriate figure of merit for a Class A amp.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> "Efficiency" is not an appropriate figure of merit for a Class A amp.


 


  Nope, it really isn't.  Its still funny though.


----------



## Rope

Scary -
   
  What's the next tube de jure?


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Scary -
> 
> What's the next tube de jure?




That's an easy one I figure that Rope will take his life savings to buy the ones he can find and give us all a set, then we dig up some dead bodies zombify them since the secrets to the tubes died with the men that made them, then the zombies can make us all some of these beauties and we can sell them

6922 Siemens Halske early to mid 1960's


hahahahaha


----------



## Misterrogers

Ordered some Super Cryo 23s the other day (for my second Lyr for my office rig) and dropped them in today to give them some burn. The single Cryo 23s have been one of my favorites, but I notice a subtle improvement in these double cryos. background seems slightly blacker, bass is slightly tighter, and highs seems to have a bit more air. I'd sure love to be able to send in some Brimars, Mullards or whatnot to be cryo'd. Word is, some tubes benefit greatly, others less. It'd be nice to see though.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Ordered some Super Cryo 23s the other day (for my second Lyr for my office rig) and dropped them in today to give them some burn. The single Cryo 23s have been one of my favorites, but I notice a subtle improvement in these double cryos. background seems slightly blacker, bass is slightly tighter, and highs seems to have a bit more air. I'd sure love to be able to send in some Brimars, Mullards or whatnot to be cryo'd. Word is, some tubes benefit greatly, others less. It'd be nice to see though.




Yeah your spot on with the super cryo's they do have more air for sure. I haven't put them in my tube rotation for awhile. I will have to listen to them since I put this silver interconnect in.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I can't afford to pay attention, let alone buy everyone tubes.


----------



## jamato8

I have been using my Sylvania grey plate 6BZ7 all day. So very nice. Detailed and layered with extremely well controlled bass. This is on the HE-6.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I have been using my Sylvania grey plate 6BZ7 all day. So very nice. Detailed and layered with extremely well controlled bass. This is on the HE-6.




Maybe I will start doing that I shall call it "Tube a day" run each tube for a day .. tomorrow will be the Sylvanias


----------



## jamato8

Have 7 sets of good tubes, one for each day of the week and then one extra for that super special day.


----------



## olor1n

Just installed some 6bq7a black plate RCA tubes. With no burn in they sound smoother, more tube like than the Cryo 6n23p. Vocals are more forward, but there's less air in the sound signature and details aren't as prominent. I received 4 tubes with matching date codes but 2 of them are microphonic and there are volume imbalances. Finding the best matching pair is a pain.
   
  Edit: The two microphonic tubes have the best channel balance and sound less compressed. I notice a slight hum through my active speakers but they're thankfully quiet through the HD650. It's only when I touch the volume dial or the area near the tubes when there's no sound playing that I hear the movement through the headphone. These have been in for about an hour and they've opened up considerably. Details have joined the fray and there's nice separation between instruments. Bass lacks slam at this stage, but it's a balanced presentation overall.


----------



## leesure

Is there any consensus on which tubes are the most syrupy rich in the middle?


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Is there any consensus on which tubes are the most syrupy rich in the middle?


 


  Consensus and audio never pair along well.


----------



## MrScary

leesure said:


> Is there any consensus on which tubes are the most syrupy rich in the middle?




hahahah sounds funny man  I don't have any syrupy rich in the middle tubes.
Well My old DAC tube is a Mullard AU7 and its Syrupy period and muddy


----------



## leesure

To clarify, I find the Lyr to have a little edge to the midrange...specifically female vocals...that isnt there with my Woo 6SE. I recently got a pair of Mullards hoping to 'lush' it up a bit and it helped some, but not all the way. Theyre only 50 hours in, but I'm thinking they are burned enough to get a hint at the end result. 

Thus, are there any uber-lush tubes for the Lyr.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





leesure said:


> To clarify, I find the Lyr to have a little edge to the midrange...specifically female vocals...that isnt there with my Woo 6SE. I recently got a pair of Mullards hoping to 'lush' it up a bit and it helped some, but not all the way. Theyre only 50 hours in, but I'm thinking they are burned enough to get a hint at the end result.
> 
> Thus, are there any uber-lush tubes for the Lyr.


 
  As a hybrid amp I doubt you will get the "lush" mids you get with an all tube amp that provides this. Obviously not all tube amps will provide lush mids either, as it depends upon topology. Have you listened to any pure analog through the Lyr, as in a good LP setup? I find digital isn't always the kindest to female voice. I find the Lyr to be quite true to the recording and pretty neutral. With a touch of the tubes and the SS output, you are getting a pretty nice balance of both.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





leesure said:


> To clarify, I find the Lyr to have a little edge to the midrange...specifically female vocals...that isnt there with my Woo 6SE. I recently got a pair of Mullards hoping to 'lush' it up a bit and it helped some, but not all the way. Theyre only 50 hours in, but I'm thinking they are burned enough to get a hint at the end result.
> 
> Thus, are there any uber-lush tubes for the Lyr.


 

 Old stock Mullard 2492 work well with my CSP-2. Mullard tubes are known to have some of the best midrange around and are very balanced. I also get good results with the Genelex new production 6922. Sylvania 6DJ8 have a nice midrange as well but i prefer the 6922 and the 2492 in my CSP-2


----------



## Kremer930

Finally got my Russian 6NP23 tubes. Only had 30 mins listening so the tubes definitely need some time to burn in. Initial impressions are that they have good strong bass but slightly tighter than the 6N1P tubes. The mids are more detailed with a faster leading edge to notes and way less harshness in the upper mids. My only negative so far is that the soundstage is a little compressed. These could easily become my favourite until the Mullards show up.... Maybe longer. I am pretty sure that I paid $20 for four tubes landed.


----------



## Misterrogers

Question - any suggestions on where to send tubes for Cryo treatment? Many sellers sell Cryo tubes, but I haven't found one yet that advertises cryo service. I'm really enjoying my Brimar tubes (more impressions later) and would like to have them Cryo'd.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Question - any suggestions on where to send tubes for Cryo treatment? Many sellers sell Cryo tubes, but I haven't found one yet that advertises cryo service. I'm really enjoying my Brimar tubes (more impressions later) and would like to have them Cryo'd.




http://www.cryo-freeze.com/index.php/pricing


----------



## Misterrogers

Thanks MrScary - I did find Cryo-freeze. I was hoping that this service might be available on a 'per tube' or pair basis.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Thanks MrScary - I did find Cryo-freeze. I was hoping that this service might be available on a 'per tube' or pair basis.




Looks like it is by the lb 75.00 per lb so how many tubes can I fit in a lb hahaha

I might get my Valvo CCA's done don't really know it will matter much


----------



## jamato8

I would have some tubes done and maybe an IC or two and maybe a portable amp. :^)


----------



## Misterrogers

Yep, I do believe I'm going to do that. An assortment of tubes, ICs, etc. Need to research. Is it considered safe (if done properly - very slowly lowering and raising temp) to cryo amps/dacs?


----------



## jamato8

I have read of components being cryoed with no ill effects. I don't remember the resulting assessment of the sound. Places that do correct cryo work do take it down slow and up slow.


----------



## Misterrogers

From what I've been able to gather, the process varies quite a bit (some direct exposure to the cryo substance, others not, some 24 hours down, others 48 hours, etc). I would thing that the 'non-contact' process may be better for treating amps, etc. More to learn, but in comparing the 23s (non cryo, single cryo and double 'super' cryo), the differences are noticeable (to my ears) in a good way.
   
  On another note, these Brimar CV 2492 E88CC tubes are sweet sounding, detailed, wide sound stage and slightly warm. I've definitely found my favorite so far. My preferred order to date:
   
  1. Brimar CV2492 E88CC.
  2. 6N23P-EV Super Cryo
  3. 6N23P-EV Single Cryo
  4. GE 6BZ7
  5. Stock JJ


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> From what I've been able to gather, the process varies quite a bit (some direct exposure to the cryo substance, others not, some 24 hours down, others 48 hours, etc). I would thing that the 'non-contact' process may be better for treating amps, etc. More to learn, but in comparing the 23s (non cryo, single cryo and double 'super' cryo), the differences are noticeable (to my ears) in a good way.
> 
> On another note, these Brimar CV 2492 E88CC tubes are sweet sounding, detailed, wide sound stage and slightly warm. I've definitely found my favorite so far. My preferred order to date:
> 
> ...




I just picked up a pair of Brimar CV 2492 E88CC tubes. See how they do against my Valvo CCA's.


----------



## Rope

My GE 6BQ7A's are getting ousted, Mullard 6DJ8/ECC88 IEC's are rollin' in.  Film at eleven.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> My GE 6BQ7A's are getting ousted, Mullard 6DJ8/ECC88 IEC's are rollin' in.  Film at eleven.




IEC's :blink:


----------



## LiqTenExp

I'm rockin' the IEC Mullards right now!  My favorite tube out of the many I have tried.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

*International Electrotechnical Commission*


----------



## Rope

Is there any thing I can do about a volume issue in one channel....anyone....anyone.....Bueller....Bueller....Bueller?


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





rope said:


> Is there any thing I can do about a volume issue in one channel....anyone....anyone.....Bueller....Bueller....Bueller?


 


  Perhaps your tubes aren't matched? Is it a really big volume difference?


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





benjamin6264 said:


> Perhaps your tubes aren't matched? Is it a really big volume difference?


 

 Not a matched pair.  The volume difference is not large, but enough to be a bit bothersum.  I wish manufacturers would still include a balance control on DAC's


----------



## Benjamin6264

Yea, that may be the problem; you want to get matched pairs as much as possible.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Not a matched pair.  The volume difference is not large, but enough to be a bit bothersum.  I wish manufacturers would still include a balance control on DAC's




I have a sylvania set that is not matched and one has higher volume than the other sucks sorry to hear that


----------



## jamato8

I am listening to the 6N1P gold grid again. I haven't listened to them for a while, allowing the amp to settle in. Pretty nice. I have Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson Live spinning and the sound is very good. Full bodied and believable. Good stuff.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I am listening to the 6N1P gold grid again. I haven't listened to them for a while, allowing the amp to settle in. Pretty nice. I have Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson Live spinning and the sound is very good. Full bodied and believable. Good stuff.




Wish my Gold Grids would have come in working that was my first set of tubes that was bad


----------



## HK_sends

I've been listening to the Mullard E88CC CV2492  tubes for a while and I have noticed the mids have come forward quite a bit.  The bass isn't a strong as I would have liked, but it is nothing a bass boost button can't fix.  The highs are butter smooth.  These are really nice tubes, but I can't wait to try the Mullard 6DJ8s when they get here.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  If you're using the right playback software, there should be a balance control there.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> If you're using the right playback software, there should be a balance control there.


 

 Squeezebox Touch is my source and DAC.  I looked in the Touch settings until my eyes bled.  No such animal, or I could be deaf, dumb, and blind.
   
  I will find a work-around, since the IEC Mullards are worth the trouble.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> Squeezebox Touch is my source and DAC.  I looked in the Touch settings until my eyes bled.  No such animal, or I could be deaf, dumb, and blind.
> I will find a work-around, since the IEC Mullards are worth the trouble.


 

 I wish I could help, but I'm not familiar with the details of the squeezebox.  I use VOX as a playback controller on my Mac and it has a very nice balance control, even though I don't use it.


----------



## Rope

Thanks kw!  I'll find some kind of antidote to keep those Mullards working, cause they sure sound fine.
   
  Rope


----------



## USAudio

What is the expected number of tube install/remove cycles we can expect from the tube sockets in the Lyr to maintain good contact with the tubes?
   
  Is there any concern with constantly swapping tubes in and out that you might be eventually wearing out the sockets and/or degrading the performance of the Lyr due to worn-out sockets?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> What is the expected number of tube install/remove cycles we can expect from the tube sockets in the Lyr to maintain good contact with the tubes?
> 
> Is there any concern with constantly swapping tubes in and out that you might be eventually wearing out the sockets and/or degrading the performance of the Lyr due to worn-out sockets?


 
  I have tube testers from the 1950's and the 1960's. A few of them I have used heavily and they were used a lot before I purchased and reconditioned them. The sockets they used were standard type, nothing special and I would guess  many 1000's of tubes have been used on the 9 pin sockets. I have replaced two tube sockets, one was broken and one was worn. The ones in the Lyr feel better than what I have in my testers. I would think there is nothing to worry about. Also with care, sockets can be tightened up, if needed. 
   
  Oh, I also have one of the earliest Hickocks. It had t 4 sockets. One for a rectifier tube the other socket was for testing. It was for the 4 and 5 pin tubes of the time. It was made in the later 1920's and it is a little beauty. And, it still works with its original capacitors! It Comes in a padded dark purple velvet lined box. I used to email with a guy that used them when they were new. The sockets are original.


----------



## Ge03

'New Old Stock' v Vintage. My first expeience of a really old tube.
   
  We all talk about tube "burn in" but just how long would the more experienced tube users here expect this process of change in  sound to continue?
  So far, my tubes used in the Lyr, in addition to both of the stock tubes, have been a pair of double cryo, matched soviet 6H23's, some National 7DJ8's again matched and double cryo'd, plus a pair of NOS Amperex 6922 white lables. All apart from the stock tubes have had well in excess of 100 hours play, the Nationals and the Amperex much more.
  I've just obtained a pair of Mullard E88CC/01 NOS - pricey - and at the same time got hold of a pair of Mullard ECC88's out of an old oscilloscope that have seen many years of use, for £5.
   
  I dropped in the old ECC88's without even cleaning the pins, made a cup of coffee while they warmed up and pressed play on whatever it was I had been listening to last night on Pure Music. - I also often  use the Lyr as a tube 'pre-amp' feed into my Meridian D600's.
  My coffee is still untouched! The sound filling the room is just way beyond anything I've ever achieved from a digital source and at the moment i'm just letting track after track play without even thinking of selecting any of my usual reference pieces.
   
  So, have I just struck lucky with a better than usual pair of tubes, or, do these tubes really mellow with age, way beyond the 100-200 hours we often talk about?


----------



## WNBC

Don't know but would be interesting to hear from the resident experts whether tubes are like a fine wine with a gradual progression towards the half-life point (say 2500-5000 hours) and then a gradual decline.  With 100-200 hours just a point at which it sounds better.  Or the alternative, after 200 hours the tube is in a plateau of performance for the majority of it's lifespan of 5000-10000 hours.
   
  I may have some used tubes at >200 hours but I don't know their early history to be sure.
   


> So, have I just struck lucky with a better than usual pair of tubes, or, do these tubes really mellow with age, way beyond the 100-200 hours we often talk about?


----------



## WNBC

Hey MrScary and friends, any preference for those IEC Mullards or Valvo's?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> What is the expected number of tube install/remove cycles we can expect from the tube sockets in the Lyr to maintain good contact with the tubes?
> 
> Is there any concern with constantly swapping tubes in and out that you might be eventually wearing out the sockets and/or degrading the performance of the Lyr due to worn-out sockets?


 
  Depends a lot upon whether you use DeOxit on the tube pins and what condition the pins are in to start with.  Besides being a contact enhancer, DeOxit is also a lubricant which I believe will extend the life of the tube sockets.


----------



## WNBC

I was thinking about ordering some of this DeOxit.  Comes in spray and gel.  So you guys just apply some to the contacts, wipe off excess, and plug in the tube?  That easy?
  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Depends a lot upon whether you use DeOxit on the tube pins and what condition the pins are in to start with.  Besides being a contact enhancer, DeOxit is also a lubricant which I believe will extend the life of the tube sockets.


----------



## Rope

I tear a piece of emery cloth into 1/4" strip, clean each pin individually, and finish with electrical contact cleaner.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Don't know but would be interesting to hear from the resident experts whether tubes are like a fine wine with a gradual progression towards the half-life point (say 2500-5000 hours) and then a gradual decline.  With 100-200 hours just a point at which it sounds better.  Or the alternative, after 200 hours the tube is in a plateau of performance for the majority of it's lifespan of 5000-10000 hours.
> 
> I may have some used tubes at >200 hours but I don't know their early history to be sure.


 

 The sonic signature of an analog tube will continue to change slightly until the cathode ceases to emit electrons.  This varies, depending on the tube, so there's no etched in granite time frame.


----------



## jamato8

Tube life will obviously depend upon how well the tube was made and the operating points. The harder you run a tube the shorter the life whether it is a signal tube or a power tube. I have a quad of EL34 power tubes that have a very hard vacuum made in Japan. They are not the ones made on Mullard tooling but a different company. They have 1000's of hours and still sound better than any of my NOS Mullards. 
   
  On the application of DeOxit, you want to leave a very thin coat as too much can cause a problem with the conduction you are trying to improve.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Depends a lot upon whether you use DeOxit on the tube pins and what condition the pins are in to start with.  Besides being a contact enhancer, DeOxit is also a lubricant which I believe will extend the life of the tube sockets.


 


  Yeah I love the stuff


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Hey MrScary and friends, any preference for those IEC Mullards or Valvo's?


 

  
  Well my last set of tubes Im buying is some 60's ECC88 Mullards Great Britian recommended by tubeworld
  So I will give you my opinion of them against my Valvo's after I get them.


----------



## mhamel

Famous last words *grin*.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
      -Mike
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> _*Well my last set of tubes Im buying*_ ...


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> On the application of DeOxit, you want to leave a very thin coat as too much can cause a problem with the conduction you are trying to improve.


 

 Do you need different cleaning and lubricating products, or is will this DeOxit pen applicator suffice?
   
  The pins on the RCA 6bq7a black plates I received were in need of cleaning and I went to work on them with the only thing I had on hand. I read in another thread of people applying a pencil eraser to the task and I found this did a decent job of restoring the pins. I don't really want to be too anal about the whole thing, but I'll at least get the pen applicator.


----------



## jamato8

That should work fine. I don't know if they still have the high temp Pro Gold. I normally use the red and then finish with the Gold and wipe the gold off, when I use it.


----------



## gopack87

I received my Lyr earlier this week and like it a lot with my LCD-2 and the stock JJs.  Tonight I rolled some Sylvania 6BZ7 that I purchased off ebay for $5.  I let my amp and dac warm up for 20 minutes or so and began listening.  With no music playing, a loud hiss and hum came through.  After playing music for an hour at medium to loud volumes, the hum is gone and the tubes are dead silent.  They sound great now with excellent bass and a lot of dynamics


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





gopack87 said:


> I received my Lyr earlier this week and like it a lot with my LCD-2 and the stock JJs.  Tonight I rolled some Sylvania 6BZ7 that I purchased off ebay for $5.  I let my amp and dac warm up for 20 minutes or so and began listening.  With no music playing, a loud hiss and hum came through.  After playing music for an hour at medium to loud volumes, the hum is gone and the tubes are dead silent.  They sound great now with excellent bass and a lot of dynamics


 


  Wow cool yeah the sylvania's sound real nice and you cant beat the price glad they started working they are a improvement over the JJ's


----------



## WNBC

Even though I have some more expensive tubes I go back to the cheapie GE 6BZ7s a lot.  I have some RCA and Sylvania 6BZ7s as well but I need to clean the contacts.  
  
  Quote: 





gopack87 said:


> I received my Lyr earlier this week and like it a lot with my LCD-2 and the stock JJs.  Tonight I rolled some Sylvania 6BZ7 that I purchased off ebay for $5.  I let my amp and dac warm up for 20 minutes or so and began listening.  With no music playing, a loud hiss and hum came through.  After playing music for an hour at medium to loud volumes, the hum is gone and the tubes are dead silent.  They sound great now with excellent bass and a lot of dynamics


----------



## WNBC

I have some CV2943 tubes that started humming in my Lyr.  On the silver-colored metallic deposits of both tubes there are 4-5mm black circles at the top, kind of burnt looking.  All of my other tubes have that nice shiny silver color up top, no dark circles.  When other tubes are in the Lyr the hum isn't present.  The dark circles were not there when I bought the tubes but appeared soon after.  Haven't pushed them too hard.  Now weeks later there is a hum in both channels.  If the levels are high enough the hum isn't noticeable.  Just wondering if the dark circles and/or hum a sign of things to come.


----------



## olor1n

Just switched back to the Cryo 6N23P after about a week with the RCA 6BQ7A (black plates with D getters). I initially thought vocals were more forward on the RCA's, but it's now clear that's not the case. It's probably because everything else is more pushed back with the RCA's, rather than being immediate with the Cryo's. The RCA's give a sense of being a few rows back, with seemingly more depth than the Cryo's and is also much smoother. The Cryo's though are more resolving and there's better definition and body, particularly in the bass and percussion instruments. The thing I wished was more refined with these tubes is the slight etch and graininess evident in some tracks. Time to look into some Mullards.


----------



## jamato8

Well the getter can get darker, which doesn't always mean anything but with the hum in both tubes and a darkened getter at the same time, obviously something is going on. That they would both develop hum is odd. Were they new old stock or used? 
   
  Quote:


wnbc said:


> I have some CV2943 tubes that started humming in my Lyr.  On the silver-colored metallic deposits of both tubes there are 4-5mm black circles at the top, kind of burnt looking.  All of my other tubes have that nice shiny silver color up top, no dark circles.  When other tubes are in the Lyr the hum isn't present.  The dark circles were not there when I bought the tubes but appeared soon after.  Haven't pushed them too hard.  Now weeks later there is a hum in both channels.  If the levels are high enough the hum isn't noticeable.  Just wondering if the dark circles and/or hum a sign of things to come.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Just switched back to the Cryo 6N23P after about a week with the RCA 6BQ7A (black plates with D getters). I initially thought vocals were more forward on the RCA's, but it's now clear that's not the case. It's probably because everything else is more pushed back with the RCA's, rather than being immediate with the Cryo's. The RCA's give a sense of being a few rows back, with seemingly more depth than the Cryo's and is also much smoother. The Cryo's though are more resolving and there's better definition and body, particularly in the bass and percussion instruments. The thing I wished was more refined with these tubes is the slight etch and graininess evident in some tracks. Time to look into some Mullards.


 
  The 6N23P is noted for being smooth sounding. I wonder if these are late versions. Normally they are free of grain or upper frequency etch.


----------



## olor1n

It's not that they're etched or grainy (poor choice of words), just less smooth compared to the RCA's or stock JJ's. Other than the improved imaging and added slam, the Cryo's share similar characteristics to my Audio-GD Fun's ss amp section.


----------



## jamato8

Well that is the fun of being able to change out tubes. You can mold it to your taste or mood for the day. :^)


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Well that is the fun of being able to change out tubes. You can mold it to your taste or mood for the day. :^)




True dat


----------



## jamato8

I have been listening to my Siemens 6922's today and really enjoying it. Very open and spacious. I also got my replacement optical cable today, 13,000 fibers, and without a question notice the improvement. It has to be handled carefully as I found out from ruining my other one.


----------



## WNBC

Like new condition which means lightly used but don't really know.  When I first got them they did look to be in pretty good condition, clean pins and labels intact.  The getter looks fine but the darkness is in the silver-metal deposit cap.  All of my other tubes are dead quiet.  From some of you experienced rollers, if your tubes produce a slight hum do you just live with it?  Because at higher listening levels the hum really can't be heard over the music.
http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_Like_New_1969_78_E88CC_CV2492_Mitcham_p/541.htm

  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Well the getter can get darker, which doesn't always mean anything but with the hum in both tubes and a darkened getter at the same time, obviously something is going on. That they would both develop hum is odd. Were they new old stock or used?


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Like new condition which means lightly used but don't really know.  When I first got them they did look to be in pretty good condition, clean pins and labels intact.  The getter looks fine but the darkness is in the silver-metal deposit cap.  All of my other tubes are dead quiet.  From some of you experienced rollers, if your tubes produce a slight hum do you just live with it?  Because at higher listening levels the hum really can't be heard over the music.
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_Like_New_1969_78_E88CC_CV2492_Mitcham_p/541.htm




Does Tubemonger have a warrany on them at all? I looked at the link but didn't see one. I'M getting some Mullard E88CC Great Britain 1966 will see if mine are any good.. Getting them from another source though
and this is surely my last set have the Brimar's coming in today so I am stacked with tubes now..


----------



## Misterrogers

I think you're really gonna like the Brimar's MrScary. Whenever I roll, I find myself 'jonesing' for the brimars


----------



## WNBC

Sold "as is" but store credit is optional under certain circumstances.  
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Does Tubemonger have a warrany on them at all? I looked at the link but didn't see one. I'M getting some Mullard E88CC Great Britain 1966 will see if mine are any good.. Getting them from another source though
> and this is surely my last set have the Brimar's coming in today so I am stacked with tubes now..


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> I think you're really gonna like the Brimar's MrScary. Whenever I roll, I find myself 'jonesing' for the brimars




I just got the Brimar Ediswan CV2492's I'm listening to them now. Before I give any final feedback on them I can say one thing no harsh highs like some of my other tubes while listening to rock. Listening to Van Dyk to test the Bass impact


----------



## jronan2

I just want some input on what tubes to get for the Lyr. I do try to pay attention to this thread but it has just taken off where there are just too many posts to keep up with.  I have had my Lyr for a little over a month and probably completely burned in at this point. I have only used the stock JJ's and have the 6N1P valhalla's in now for the past few weeks. Running the Lyr with a Yulong D100 dac and some LCD 2's.  My main preferences is EDM, mostly DnB and trance. Can you guys give me  some good tube options that aren't too expensive, and why you recommend them. Any help is greatly appreciated. Happy B-Day Schiit.


----------



## jamato8

I would get some grey plate 6BZ7 in a few varieties and have some fun at a low cost but high return in audio bliss. IMO


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm gettin' old here, Scary!  What's the scooper pooper on the Brimar's?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





rope said:


> I'm gettin' old here, Scary!  What's the scooper pooper on the Brimar's?


 

 hahaha Rope it will have to wait. I burned up my CPU in my main machine messing around with a cooling fan hahaha dont ask.. I dont use my laptop via usb for my DAC as its a work laptop. So it will be tomorrow  evening sometime before I give you my final review. I can say this much I paid only 60.00 for them and they are now tied with my Valvo's as my favorite tube I love the old vintage tubes. I also need to listen a bit more to a few more genre's of music before giving my final review


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I just want some input on what tubes to get for the Lyr. I do try to pay attention to this thread but it has just taken off where there are just too many posts to keep up with.  I have had my Lyr for a little over a month and probably completely burned in at this point. I have only used the stock JJ's and have the 6N1P valhalla's in now for the past few weeks. Running the Lyr with a Yulong D100 dac and some LCD 2's.  My main preferences is EDM, mostly DnB and trance. Can you guys give me  some good tube options that aren't too expensive, and why you recommend them. Any help is greatly appreciated. Happy B-Day Schiit.


 


  RCA 6BZ7, GE or Sylvania in no particular order however, I listen to alot of techno and I would recommend either the RCA's or the GE's for that Genre but
  as Jamato8 said just get a few of each they are so cheap and check them out you won't be disappointed. They sound much better than the Schiit 6N1P's IMHO


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> RCA 6BZ7, GE or Sylvania in no particular order however, I listen to alot of *techno* and I would recommend either the RCA's or the GE's for that Genre but
> as Jamato8 said just get a few of each they are so cheap and check them out you won't be disappointed. They sound much better than the Schiit 6N1P's IMHO


 
  Deadmau5, Chicane?


----------



## olor1n

jamato8 said:


> I would get some grey plate 6BZ7 in a few varieties and have some fun at a low cost but high return in audio bliss. IMO




How do grey plates generally differ in sound from black plates? What about the getter (I have D getters on mine)?

The RCA's I have are labelled 30-3. Anyone know what this means? I really like their smoothness but would like more definition in the bass and a tad more forward mids. Do any of these cheaper tubes fit the bill?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





rope said:


> Deadmau5, Chicane?


 
  I've listened to Chicane more


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  The GE's have a bit more forward mids and bass definition


----------



## jronan2

Ok I'm going to try those..where do I buy?
   
   
  Would this be good?
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/GE-6BZ7-TWIN-TRIODE-VACUUM-TUBE-TESTED-NOS-NICE-/230618211125?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35b1eaa335


----------



## jamato8

They should be around 4 dollars each as there are thousands upon thousands of these and they are in very low demand.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> They should be around 4 dollars each as there are thousands upon thousands of these and they are in very low demand.


 


  Thanks I'll do a more thorough search, I dedicated a whole 15 seconds before lol. $4 each is right up my alley, I will post my impressions compared to the 6N1P because I have been using them enough hours to comfortably make a comparison.


----------



## jamato8

You can find them for 2 dollars each and they are the same tube. It is just that in reality, they are common and they have always stayed under the radar.


----------



## Rope

http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-6bq7a.html


----------



## achl354

havent been following this thread for a while
   
  so can someone sum up in short what are the best tubes (in different aspect) for under usd$150 for a matched pair?
   
  i havent had the chance to try the Telefunken, Mullards, 6BZ7, Siemens, etc, so some words on these would be very helpful (would be even more helpful if u can compare them to the Gold Lions E88cc, amperex/hp, or the 6N23P)


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





achl354 said:


> havent been following this thread for a while
> 
> so can someone sum up in short what are the best tubes (in different aspect) for under usd$150 for a matched pair?
> 
> i havent had the chance to try the Telefunken, Mullards, 6BZ7, Siemens, etc, so some words on these would be very helpful (would be even more helpful if u can compare them to the Gold Lions E88cc, amperex/hp, or the 6N23P)


 

 Your budget being $150.00, I'd opt for a pair of Mullard CV 2492's.


----------



## MrScary

achl354 said:


> havent been following this thread for a while
> 
> so can someone sum up in short what are the best tubes (in different aspect) for under usd$150 for a matched pair?
> 
> i havent had the chance to try the Telefunken, Mullards, 6BZ7, Siemens, etc, so some words on these would be very helpful (would be even more helpful if u can compare them to the Gold Lions E88cc, amperex/hp, or the 6N23P)




This is a difficult question to answer for 150.00 there are many great tubes, Valvo's,Brimars,Mullards, Some of the Amperex vintage tubes.. Problem is finding them
IN all honesty the Vintage tubes sound better, 60's tubes are the schiit but there are other tubes that sound great as well. Your question begs the question 
have you looked through the forum? impressions of most of the tubes have been done several times.

What I would do:
I would start out with the inexpensive 6BZ7's buy several different brands. GE's, RCA's and some Sylvania's then from there
make a decision on what tubes if any you want to spend 150.00 on. I can tell you I have spent more on tubes than I did on the Lyr and I still use the 5.00 tubes i.e 6BZ7's.

My Favorites so far in order are Valvo ECC88 CCA's, Brimar 2492's (Britain) , GE 6BZ7's and Im getting some vintage Mullard's in from the 60's in about a week so I can give you a run down of these 3 soon. I didn't include my siemens CCA's as they are beyond the 150.00 price range and are not worth it.

Good luck


----------



## jamato8

I have some fine Siemens 6922 but prefer the Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plate, which cost me 4 dollars for both. The cost of the Siemens, considerably higher.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I have some fine Siemens 6922 but prefer the Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plate, which cost me 4 dollars for both. The cost of the Siemens, considerably higher.




Yepperz I love the Sylvania's


----------



## Misterrogers

You gents have a suggestion on a specific source for good, matched Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plates- or should I just go hunting?


----------



## Rope

The experience I've had with the Mullard 6DJ8/ECC88 IEC's, which are not matched, but through some white-trash jerry riggin', I've succeeded in enjoying their fine articulate, transparent sound.  This coincides with the experiences both Wedge and LiqTenExp had with the Mullard CV2942's, and which LiqTenExp compared to the IEC's.
   
  There are probably tubes that match the Mullards, but I highly doubt they'll top them.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> The experience I've had with the Mullard 6DJ8/ECC88 IEC's, which are not matched, but through some white-trash jerry riggin', I've succeeded in enjoying their fine articulate, transparent sound.  This coincides with the experiences both Wedge and LiqTenExp had with the Mullard CV2942's, and which LiqTenExp compared to the IEC's.
> 
> There are probably tubes that match the Mullards, but I highly doubt they'll top them.




All depends on your audio chain.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I hope you're not implying my Radio Shack headphones are inferior?


----------



## Jcaudio

I just purchased the Gold Lion after a bad experience with some NOS 6BQ7A/ 6BZ7 which introduced quite a bit of noise. Will advise after proper burn in.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> I hope you're not implying my Radio Shack headphones are inferior?




hahahaha too funny man


----------



## MrScary

jcaudio said:


> I just purchased the Gold Lion after a bad experience with some NOS 6BQ7A/ 6BZ7 which introduced quite a bit of noise. Will advise after proper burn in.




GL's are way overpriced for the sound quality they produce which is mid-fi in IMHO. Should have grabbed some Mullards or Brimars, the Brimars are about the closet thing that I can think of to the GL's.but the Brimars are better in the midrange, the top has air to it and the Bass has better slam.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





jcaudio said:


> I just purchased the Gold Lion after a bad experience with some NOS 6BQ7A/ 6BZ7 which introduced quite a bit of noise. Will advise after proper burn in.


 

 Wish I'd  have known you were looking for a matched pair of Gold Lions.  I'd have made you a super deal, and my set have around 30 hours on them.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Wish I'd  have known you were looking for a matched pair of Gold Lions.  I'd have made you a super deal, and my set have around 30 hours on them.




hahaha didn't sell them yet Rope those were the first set of tubes I sold off


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Yep, other than personal preference, consideration needs to be taken of the entire chain when determining what tubes may be best with the Lyr. I don't think proclaiming tube X as the best is particularly helpful, especially to those looking to avoid getting caught in the tube buying lottery. Intentions may be good, but someone could be substantially out of pocket before finding something to their liking. It'd be more helpful if those who've rolled through a number of tubes contrasted their findings against a universal reference point like the stock JJ's. There's a natural tendency to only compare against what was last installed in the Lyr and with the variety of tubes now tested and the length of this thread, it's difficult to determine how that specific tube may affect your chain.
   
  Ultimately though, what's best can only be determined by first hand experience and jamato8's advice in recommending the cheaper options first is a good approach. I've only heard the stock JJ's, Cryo 6N23P and RCA 6BQ7A black plates, but I'm finding it really takes some time for me to formulate what's best according to my preferences. It goes against the lightning pace at which others in this thread have rolled through a variety of tubes and (without offending anyone) makes me wary of the daily proclamation that the best has just been unearthed.
   
  Fwiw, I've just gone back to the stock JJ's after spending weeks with the Cryo's and RCA's. In my chain, the Cryo's have better definition in the bass and better clarity than the stock JJ's, but there's something about them I dislike for extended listening. They impress initially with the slam and relative transparency (again compared to the JJ's) but there's a cold and analytical quality that's made me swap them out with regularity. The RCA's on the other hand, have a smoothness and depth to the soundstage that sounds great with certain material, but the evenness, lack of body and extension in the low end, and "a few rows back" imaging results in a presentation that's too polite for my taste. Going back to the stock JJ's from this has highlighted how energetic and engaging the stock configuration is, particularly in the low end. Some refinement in the bass would be welcome and the clarity of the Cryo's would elevate them, but so far I'd have to say the stock JJ's suit my preferences best with my particular setup.
   
  I have some matched, made in Holland Amperex Orange Globes and Bugle Boys on the way. These are more costly than the Cryo's, but I'm hoping to find great synergy for my chain. I don't particularly want to spend hundreds on single pairs of tubes.


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> Yep, other than personal preference, consideration needs to be taken of the entire chain when determining what tubes may be best with the Lyr. I don't think proclaiming tube X as the best is particularly helpful, especially to those looking to avoid getting caught in the tube buying lottery. Intentions may be good, but someone could be substantially out of pocket before finding something to their liking. It'd be more helpful if those who've rolled through a number of tubes contrasted their findings against a universal reference point like the stock JJ's. There's a natural tendency to only compare against what was last installed in the Lyr and with the variety of tubes now tested and the length of this thread, it's difficult to determine how that specific tube may affect your chain.
> 
> Ultimately though, what's best can only be determined by first hand experience and jamato8's advice in recommending the cheaper options first is a good approach. I've only heard the stock JJ's, Cryo 6N23P and RCA 6BQ7A black plates, but I'm finding it really takes some time for me to formulate what's best according to my preferences. It goes against the lightning pace at which others in this thread have rolled through a variety of tubes and (without offending anyone) makes me wary of the daily proclamation that the best has just been unearthed.
> 
> ...





Good words. I was going to make a long reply but decided that the best I can do for the end reader is to suggest they skim the thread and make a choice based upon multiple opinions of a tubes attributes.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Yep, other than personal preference, consideration needs to be taken of the entire chain when determining what tubes may be best with the Lyr. I don't think proclaiming tube X as the best is particularly helpful, especially to those looking to avoid getting caught in the tube buying lottery. Intentions may be good, but someone could be substantially out of pocket before finding something to their liking. It'd be more helpful if those who've rolled through a number of tubes contrasted their findings against a universal reference point like the stock JJ's. There's a natural tendency to only compare against what was last installed in the Lyr and with the variety of tubes now tested and the length of this thread, it's difficult to determine how that specific tube may affect your chain.
> 
> Ultimately though, what's best can only be determined by first hand experience and jamato8's advice in recommending the cheaper options first is a good approach. I've only heard the stock JJ's, Cryo 6N23P and RCA 6BQ7A black plates, but I'm finding it really takes some time for me to formulate what's best according to my preferences. It goes against the lightning pace at which others in this thread have rolled through a variety of tubes and (without offending anyone) makes me wary of the daily proclamation that the best has just been unearthed.
> 
> ...


 
  I''ll assume you've tried the Mullard's and dislike them.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> I''ll assume you've tried the Mullard's and dislike them.




Mullards is a big word that contains many tubes which ones? Not picking on you just want people to understand there is not one Mullard.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You're picking on me, and I'm telling my Mom!  Furthermore, Mullard is not a big word; Supercalafragelisticexpeallidosius, is a big word!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm referring to the Mullard tubes mentioned in my orginal post, CV2492, and 6DJ8/ECC88 IEC's.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I was thinking about ordering some of this DeOxit.  Comes in spray and gel.  So you guys just apply some to the contacts, wipe off excess, and plug in the tube?  That easy?


 


  I don't think you want spray.  The least wasteful means of applying it is by using the 7.4ml 100% solution bottles with brush applicator.  It is sold in a package of two 7.4ml bottles, one of GL-100, and the other of DL100.  I think it retails for about $24 USD per package.  I generally buy mine from Fry's Electronics, but many places carry it, including Radio Shack.  My first bottle of DL100 lasted me for about 20 years.  It's still half full, but I splurged for a fresh batch about a year ago.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> I tear a piece of emery cloth into 1/4" strip, clean each pin individually, and finish with electrical contact cleaner.


 


  NO!  BAD!


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Do you need different cleaning and lubricating products, or is will this DeOxit pen applicator suffice?
> 
> The pins on the RCA 6bq7a black plates I received were in need of cleaning and I went to work on them with the only thing I had on hand. I read in another thread of people applying a pencil eraser to the task and I found this did a decent job of restoring the pins. I don't really want to be too anal about the whole thing, but I'll at least get the pen applicator.


 
  The pen applicator is very effective and convenient to use, I have some, but the 7.4ml bottles w/brush applicator are more economical.
  
  This is the kit to which I referred in the post above:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=NS1436&keywords=deoxit&form=KEYWORD


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





rope said:


> I''ll assume you've tried the Mullard's and dislike them.


 

 No, but I don't think that invalidates anything in my post. Did you even read it?


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> The pen applicator is very effective and convenient to use, I have some, but the 7.4ml bottles w/brush applicator are more economical.
> 
> This is the kit to which I referred in the post above:
> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=NS1436&keywords=deoxit&form=KEYWORD


 

 Yeah, that's what I ended up getting when I spotted it on the shelf. It worked a treat in cleaning the pins on my RCA's. It's now much easier to roll tubes as the pins glide into, and out of the sockets with ease.


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> Yeah, that's what I ended up getting when I spotted it on the shelf. It worked a treat in cleaning the pins on my RCA's. It's now much easier to roll tubes as the pins glide into, and out of the sockets with ease.




I have the spray and just spray it like a madman then wipe off the excess.. hahaha


----------



## Benjamin6264

I just won an auction for 10 Amperex A-frame E88CC tubes, all matched or pretty darn close.
   
  http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150618060977&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
   
  I got them for $150, so $30 a pair.
   
  I looked for their average price prior to bidding to avoid overpaying, but found very few results, except for one website selling matched pairs for up to $80. (Look for "6DJ8 Amperex Orange World Logo type, "A" frame top getter. Made in Holland.MATCHED PAIRS" on http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm)
   
  What is the usual price for a matched pair?
   
  Thanks,
  Benjamin


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> I just won an auction for 10 Amperex A-frame E88CC tubes, all matched or pretty darn close.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150618060977&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
> 
> ...




Hope they work I just got in some Valvo matched EC88's and all 4 of them were bad...
I already tried the Orange Globes I sold mine off maybe they will work better in your audio chain.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Hope they work I just got in some Valvo matched EC88's and all 4 of them were bad...
> I already tried the Orange Globes I sold mine off maybe they will work better in your audio chain.


 

 The descriptions seems to indicate that they are all in working order and in NOS condition. Sorry yours weren't :\
   
  I've seen some good comments on them on the thread, hope they will be good! 
   
  Anyone has an idea of their usual price though?


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> The descriptions seems to indicate that they are all in working order and in NOS condition.
> 
> I've seen some good comments on them on the thread, hope they will be good!
> 
> Anyone has an idea of their usual price though?




Cant trust ebay man I have had more bad tubes from ebay than probalby anyone else in the forum.. They all claim they are NOS and matched.. IM not sure of the price when I sold mine I sold them for 80.00


----------



## Benjamin6264

Well, the seller is US-located, sells many tubes and has good feedbacks, so with a bit of luck they'll be what he claims them to be 
   
  Worst case scenario I'll send them back


----------



## Benjamin6264

Aaaand just got myself these fellas:
   
  http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1313103669
   
  Gee, I must stop buying...(I hope they do well though).


----------



## WNBC

You're taking one for the team, I haven't received one bad tube yet from Ebay.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> benjamin6264 said:
> ...


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> Aaaand just got myself these fellas:
> 
> http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1313103669
> 
> Gee, I must stop buying...(I hope they do well though).




Those are awesome tubes man they sound tridemensional


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Those are awesome tubes man they sound tridemensional


 
  That's one thing that surprises me with tubes : It's always the oldest and hardest to find that are of the best quality. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I know that there is some ancestral knowledge that got lost, but couldn't we look inside a NOS tube and find out what makes it so damn good? 
   

  Still, I'm happy with my purchase so far.
   
  (Didn't get them yet, but that's just a detail)


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


benjamin6264 said:


> That's one thing that surprises me with tubes : It's always the oldest and hardest to find that are of the best quality.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





  From the 1920's to the mid 1960's tubes were being made with a true purpose. Equipment needed them. There was no playing around. It was big business and they looked for the best materials and combinations and did true research. I have an elderly friend who worked for RCA and holds several patents for tubes through RCA. They were serious about what they did. The workers would often take up to a year to learn the art of making electronics inside of the tubes as they were hand made. The cathode coating materials and metallurgy was thought out and R&D was invested in. You had big companies with capital to invest. Many secrets have been lost and there is not the capital investment to rediscover some of the lost art. The business is just too niche now and I doubt we will ever see the 1940's to early 1960's tube again. 
   
  Some NOS isn't all that good and some tubes that are reported as great and command high prices aren't any better than some at a fraction of the price but there are some very fine NOS that is expensive. As usual, buyer be ware.


----------



## Kremer930

A week back I finally got my 6N23P tubes.  I loved them....until I got my Amperex/Mullard ECC88 tubes.  I am not really sure what they are and I guess I will have to have another good look at them.  But getting them out to cool down is sooooo hard.  I dont want to stop listening to them.  They sound awesome.  Perhaps the bass is a little lighter overall but barely noticeable.  What really seems to set these apart is the texture and detail in the mids and treble.  There is more detail in the sounds with little things like the wavering of a cymbal now being clearly identifiable.  
   
  The tubes were sold as Amperex but are supposed to be made by Mullard.  For $35 landed for a matched pair I am very pleased indeed.
   
  My tube count is now up to about 30 tubes in total for the Lyr.  Luckily, I dont have any plans to sell the Lyr...even after I buy the new Schiit amp.  This baby will be a keeper.


----------



## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> A week back I finally got my 6N23P tubes.  I loved them....until I got my Amperex/Mullard ECC88 tubes.  I am not really sure what they are and I guess I will have to have another good look at them.  But getting them out to cool down is sooooo hard.  I dont want to stop listening to them.  They sound awesome.  Perhaps the bass is a little lighter overall but barely noticeable.  What really seems to set these apart is the texture and detail in the mids and treble.  There is more detail in the sounds with little things like the wavering of a cymbal now being clearly identifiable.
> 
> The tubes were sold as Amperex but are supposed to be made by Mullard.  For $35 landed for a matched pair I am very pleased indeed.
> 
> My tube count is now up to about 30 tubes in total for the Lyr.  Luckily, I dont have any plans to sell the Lyr...even after I buy the new Schiit amp.  This baby will be a keeper.




I just landed an awesome deal on 4 matched siemens CCA's the holy grail of tubes tridemensional in sound I get my mullards this week and in about 3 weeks the siemens now I think I'm done buying tubes.. hahaha


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have ceased purchasing tubes.


----------



## Kremer930

Ha ha ha ha....ha ha ha... You guys are so funny..... Stopped buying tubes.....  You almost had me going there for a while....  ha ha ha  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Perhaps you have just run out of options for now?  Luckily one of the upcoming new Schiit toys to be released has the option of a different family of tube.  I cant say any more but this roller coaster is only just slowing down ready for the second loop.
   
  Mr Scary.  Looking forward to hearing how the Mullards compare with your Siemen CCA's.
   

  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





rope said:


> I have ceased purchasing tubes.


----------



## ZorgDK

I thought I was done rolling tubes too and here I am browsing for Brimars, Mullards and what not. 
   
  EDIT: Kremer930 - There's a new Schiit amp in the works? Intriguing...


----------



## MrScary

Well I got in my vintage Mullards ECC88's today slapped them in let them warm up and began listening. All I can say is they sound like Mullards they have that laid back sound.
In comparison to my other two vintage sets the Valvo's and Brimars the Mullards come in last. Don't get me wrong they are a great sounding tube but the Brimars sound significantly better all around
the Valvo's have the same sound signature with a better top end and are tridemsional.

So IMHO I would recommend the ECC88 mullards as a tube for someone that is looking to take their system and remove a bit of the highs as the top end of the Mullards is recessed so if you have a bright system or using silver interconnects this is the tube for you. 
 The Brimar cv2492's sound brighter and the Valvos sound alot like the Mullards but have a better top end and are tridemensional.

I give the Mullard ECC88 a 8 out of 10.


Im waiting on the holy grail of tubes the Siemens and Halske CCA's that is what I have been after forever.


----------



## Benjamin6264

There's a new Schiit amp in the making? I didn't know that.
   
  I was aware of new DAC's, but nothing that includes tubes either.


----------



## Rope

If anyone runs across a pair of Mullard 6DJ8 IEC's, and you don't intent to purchase, please give me a holler.  I'd like to own a backup pair.  The current pair are NIB NOS, came in original boxes, and the print on the cathode is suffering from age.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Im waiting on the holy grail of tubes the Siemens and Halske CCA's that is what I have been after forever.


 
  Which Siemens? 
  Quote: 





rope said:


> If anyone runs across a pair of Mullard 6DJ8 IEC's, and you don't intent to purchase, please give me a holler.  I'd like to own a backup pair.  The current pair are NIB NOS, came in original boxes, and the print on the cathode is suffering from age.


 
  Print on the Cathode is suffering from age?


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Which Siemens?
> Print on the Cathode is suffering from age?




CCa Siemens & Halske A-FRAME construction late 1960's holographic sound expensive and rare


----------



## jamato8

Great Mr Scary, you did it again. Now I am really scared with that avatar. I feel like I am falling into a vortex mental disruption.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Which Siemens?
> *Print on the Cathode is suffering from age? *


 
  The badging (lettering) on the glass is fragile, and is starting to flake off from age.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





rope said:


> The badging (lettering) on the glass is fragile, and is starting to flake off from age.


 

 Yeah, I hate how that affects the SQ too!


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Great Mr Scary, you did it again. Now I am really scared with that avatar. I feel like I am falling into a vortex mental disruption.




Just for you I will change my Avatar to something more settling..


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 Now it wont let me change it IM stuck in evil land


----------



## jamato8

the eye, the eye! No not the eye!!


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> the eye, the eye! No not the eye!!




hahahahaha too funny: cool:


----------



## WNBC

Awesome, quick turnaround and all on the same page.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Sorry, I won some on Ebay recently but it will be my first IECs so hopefully you don't mind sharing the love.  I will cease purchasing tubes for a while after I get my paws on the Valvo's.  I am interested in this tri-dimensional sound Mr. Scary talks about.  As of right now, I'm finding the Cryoset 6N23Ps working well with the Lyr + LCD-2.  Lots of other tubes I would like to try after the Valvo but I think I'm getting into just very subtle improvements or signatures with each new tube purchase.  
   



rope said:


> I have ceased purchasing tubes.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





rope said:


> If anyone runs across a pair of Mullard 6DJ8 IEC's, and you don't intent to purchase, please give me a holler.  I'd like to own a backup pair.  The current pair are NIB NOS, came in original boxes, and the print on the cathode is suffering from age.


----------



## WNBC

Out of curiosity, how to people store their tubes?  I'm placing tubes w/ boxes in zip lock bags.  Are people using Pelican cases with foam inserts or large tupperware containers.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Out of curiosity, how to people store their tubes?  I'm placing tubes w/ boxes in zip lock bags.  Are people using Pelican cases with foam inserts or large tupperware containers.




I use a padded tupperware container that has foam I glued on the sides and bottom


----------



## Misterrogers

I've found that the plastic photo cases are ideal for storing sets of up to 4 tubes. I'll send photos later if anyone is interested.


----------



## Locknar

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What's Happenin' Mr. Scary. I'm a toob noob so please forgive any stoopid ?'s. I should be receiving my Lyr on Mon. and I went ahead and ordered 4 pairs of the 6BZ7/6BQ7 per your advice above from tubestore.com. I asked if they had matched tubes but the chick didn't seem to have the answer to that one. She said she could sell me branded pairs (i.e. 2 GE's, 2 RCA's, etc.). Is there anywhere that sells matched 6BZ7's?


----------



## Misterrogers

Do these look like gray plates? are there any distinguishable marks?


----------



## jamato8

The plates are grey. Those are grey plates.


----------



## Misterrogers

Ha! Thanks Jamato8 for helping point out the obvious


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> The plates are grey. Those are grey plates.




The eye see's Grey those be the ones..


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Out of curiosity, how to people store their tubes?  I'm placing tubes w/ boxes in zip lock bags.  Are people using Pelican cases with foam inserts or large tupperware containers.


 
  In cardboard boxes. These are vacuum sealed glass containers. In the real life of tubes, in the past, they were thrown about, bumped around, and many other types of abuse. I don't do that but when they were a true part of the trade, as in TV repair, radio and so on, they got no special treatment. I have tubes from the mid 1920's that are fine and I know they have gone through just about everything. They don't like hammers. :^)


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> In cardboard boxes. These are vacuum sealed glass containers. In the real life of tubes, in the past, they were thrown about, bumped around, and many other types of abuse. I don't do that but when they were a true part of the trade, as in TV repair, radio and so on, they got no special treatment. I have tubes from the mid 1920's that are fine and I know they have gone through just about everything. They don't like hammers. :^)




wow from the 20's coolio


----------



## Locknar

Hi Jamato8,
   
  I directed this question @ MrScary but maybe you can answer it. Is there a place you know of that sells matched pairs of the 6BZ7/6BQ7 or are they just too inexpensive for people to bother? I bought 8 of them from tubestore.com and for $4 a piece they barely wanted to take the time to match brands for me. When I asked for grey plates the lady who was helping me didn't seem to know what I was talking about. I should be receiving them tomorrow but I have no idea what I'm getting.


----------



## MrScary

locknar said:


> Hi Jamato8,
> 
> I directed this question @ MrScary but maybe you can answer it. Is there a place you know of that sells matched pairs of the 6BZ7/6BQ7 or are they just too inexpensive for people to bother? I bought 8 of them from tubestore.com and for $4 a piece they barely wanted to take the time to match brands for me. When I asked for grey plates the lady who was helping me didn't seem to know what I was talking about. I should be receiving them tomorrow but I have no idea what I'm getting.




I know Jamato8 hates this word but I have gotten some of my 6BZ7/6BQ7 off of ebay. Since they are so cheap I really didn't care if they worked or not but I got lucky with all my ebay purchases with the 6BZ7/6BQ7 some sellers are honest on ebay you 
just have to sift through them which is a pain in the ass. I actually am going to sell a lot of tubes here soon as I have decided Im only keeping the ones Im using so keep an eye out on the thread I will post it here first so that the thread users can get first dibs..
With the 6BZ7/6BQ7 being kinda off the beaten path its hard to find tube sellers that have them matched. The ones I have found sent me bad tubes hahaha my bad luck Jamato8 may have some insight for you on locations.


----------



## Locknar

Thanks MrScary! I'm reluctant to use eBay but these are on the cheap. I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for your tubes. I know this has probably been asked of you before but this thread is pretty deep, if you had to choose one set of tubes you prefer most with the Lyr/HD650 combo which would they be? That'll be my set up for awhile until I pick up some LCD-2's. Thanks again!


----------



## MrScary

locknar said:


> Thanks MrScary! I'm reluctant to use eBay but these are on the cheap. I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for your tubes. I know this has probably been asked of you before but this thread is pretty deep, if you had to choose one set of tubes you prefer most with the Lyr/HD650 combo which would they be? That'll be my set up for awhile until I pick up some LCD-2's. Thanks again!




Hmmmm Thats a hard one man my favorite tubes are all vintage 60's expensive tubes... But the 6BZ7/6BQ7's sound great I love the RCA's for their airyness and the GE's for their great midrange just start by getting some 6BZ7/6BQ7's and go from there 
with the 650's I prefer a brighter tube so the 6BZ7/6BQ7's fit that bill great.


----------



## Locknar

Sounds like a plan. The Lyr will be my first hybrid/tube amp experience so I'm sure the 6BZ7's will more than suffice! I'll pop in the stock tubes just for reference then play with the others. Hopefully the tubestore sent me a nice variety. I'll know soon enough.


----------



## MrScary

locknar said:


> Sounds like a plan. The Lyr will be my first hybrid/tube amp experience so I'm sure the 6BZ7's will more than suffice! I'll pop in the stock tubes just for reference then play with the others. Hopefully the tubestore sent me a nice variety. I'll know soon enough.




You cant go wrong with the 6BZ7/6BQ7's they are way underrated.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  And all this time I thought it was gray plates.


----------



## jamato8

There are grey plates and then there are gray plates. Sometimes you have to ask if they have any grey or gray plates.


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's where I found a pair of Sylvania 6BZ7/6BQ7 tubes for the Lyr.  I have to agree with everyone here - they really do sound very good for an amazingly low cost.  Impressive - and definitely part of any Lyr owner's tube collection if you're experimenting with tube rolling.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> There are grey plates and then there are gray plates. Sometimes you have to ask if they have any grey or gray plates.




Then don't forget there are the Greys as in aliens..


----------



## Theogenes

Quote: 





benjamin6264 said:


> Nobody ever managed to reach absolute zero. Technically, any object that would reach it would dissapear.





  Quote: 





rope said:


> That explains what happened to my wife.





   
  Funniest. Post. EVER!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MrScary

theogenes said:


> Funniest. Post. EVER!!!!!!!!!




hahaha every since I saw that movie the 4th kind I keep thinking they are going to abduct me those darn Greys..


----------



## Misterrogers

Fyi - http://www.oldstockaudio.com/ has a good selection of Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plates matched. He seems to take great care testing and matching tubes. This comes at a premium - he sells Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plates at $30 (US) for a matched pair.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Fyi - http://www.oldstockaudio.com/ has a good selection of Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plates matched. He seems to take great care testing and matching tubes. This comes at a premium - he sells Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plates at $30 (US) for a matched pair.




Thats outrageous I have never paid more than 5.00 a tube but I guess if you want his matching then ya pay for it.


----------



## Locknar

I just received my grab bag of 6BZ7/6BQ7's. I got 2 sets of the GE gray plates, 1 set of Superior?(made in Japan), and 1 set of Allied?(made in Japan) which appear to have gold pins. I've never seen either brand discussed. Has anyone tried these?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





locknar said:


> I just received my grab bag of 6BZ7/6BQ7's. I got 2 sets of the GE gray plates, 1 set of Superior?(made in Japan), and 1 set of Allied?(made in Japan) which appear to have gold pins. I've never seen either brand discussed. Has anyone tried these?


 


  No sounds like you got some new toys the GE's sound great let us know how the others sound


----------



## Locknar

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> No sounds like you got some new toys the GE's sound great let us know how the others sound


 

 Will do!


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Fyi - http://www.oldstockaudio.com/ has a good selection of Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plates matched. He seems to take great care testing and matching tubes. This comes at a premium - he sells Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plates at $30 (US) for a matched pair.


 
  Most likely he is paying around 1 dollar a tube, at the most. This is a silly price and should not be paid unless you have plenty of free money laying around that you would also give to someone that comes to the door and asks for it. 
   
  I know that using a tube tracer takes more time but the information is plugged into the computer and you print out what you need. And I agree, for most all purposes, you don't need closely matched tubes but on the Lyr, since they are in the voltage gain stage, it is fairly important but I don't think you need to pay over 10 dollars a pair for 6BZ7 types.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





locknar said:


> I just received my grab bag of 6BZ7/6BQ7's. I got 2 sets of the GE gray plates, 1 set of Superior?(made in Japan), and 1 set of Allied?(made in Japan) which appear to have gold pins. I've never seen either brand discussed. Has anyone tried these?


 
  I look forward to your impressions of the Japanese tubes. I have never used any from Japan of the 6BZ7 and Japan made some very good tubes.


----------



## ZorgDK

I've got a set of Brimar CV2492 inbound from the UK, I'm pretty excited to hear them. I'll post my impressions when they get here.
   
  I also recently bought a solid silver interconnect cable for the Lyr. That didn't go so well, it made the sound lean and thin so I had to return the cable.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the info, I was thinking of getting a reasonably priced set of silver interconnects.   Did they require break in period?
   
  Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> I've got a set of Brimar CV2492 inbound from the UK, I'm pretty excited to hear them. I'll post my impressions when they get here.
> 
> I also recently bought a solid silver interconnect cable for the Lyr. That didn't go so well, it made the sound lean and thin so I had to return the cable.


----------



## obazavil

@MrScary
  What tubes you recommend for 3D imaging? (or whatever is called?)


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> SUBMIT
> Thanks for the info, I was thinking of getting a reasonably priced set of silver interconnects.   Did they require break in period?


 
   
  You got it, I'm not a real believer of cable burn in but I don't know if it would make a difference. I've actually never noticed improvement from burn in from anything audio related.


----------



## WNBC

As a scientist I am trained to be skeptical and I am fairly new to this world of HiFi so initially I was prepared to disregard all burn-in suggestions.  However, with the W4S DAC-2 and RE-Zero I noticed that the sound changed over time.  Maybe it's all in my head but maybe not.  As long as we're happy with the final product different strokes for different folks.
  
  Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> You got it, I'm not a real believer of cable burn in but I don't know if it would make a difference. I've actually never noticed improvement from burn in from anything audio related.


----------



## WNBC

Has anybody tried the Tubemonger plug and play socket saver?
http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
   
  It's not that the Lyr needs any improvement but would allow us to see the tube glow.  The only worry would be that it might not have enough clearance.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Has anybody tried the Tubemonger plug and play socket saver?
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
> 
> It's not that the Lyr needs any improvement but would allow us to see the tube glow.  The only worry would be that it might not have enough clearance.




cool wonder if it fits


----------



## MrScary

obazavil said:


> @MrScary
> What tubes you recommend for 3D imaging? (or whatever is called?)




Hmmm this is a hard one many aspects of your audio chain make up the final imaging concept. In regards to tubes I don't have a good answer for ya. I can tell you that the ones that are considered holographic are very expensive
simens and Halske all types.. You wont find a pair under 250.00 unless you luck out. The Valvlo EC88 Holland tubes have excellent imaging but are rare as well and usually run about 120.00 a pair if you are lucky.
To finalize my thoughts on imaging IMHO there are many tubes that have good imaging I just stated the ones that have been accepted as exceptional in that arena.. Anyone else want to chime in on this one?


----------



## Rope

Far be if for me to answer HF, and, or tube questions, since I'm reasonably new at the headphone game.
   
  As it relates to traditional speakers, 90% of what the listener is going to hear is created by the speakers and environment the speakers are interacting with.  In this situation the environment can be altered to a great degree, which in turn, can, and usually does improve the sonic performance of the speakers.
   
  As for the headphone game, I would estimate that 60 to 70% of what the listener will experience is the headphone itself, which comes with a manufactures predetermined environment, but can be altered if one knows what they're doing.  If you're dealing with a tube amp where the input stage circuits electro-mechanical device (tube) is responsible for circuit completion; I would estimate 25 - 30 % contribution to the sonic equation.
   
  In respect to those two variables, I look for a number of characteristics.  First would be clarity/ transparency and some what neutral sound that emulates the recreation of sound to the proximity of live.  This would include a large enough sound stage to accurately recreate the imaging within that sound stage.  Meaning the listener should be able to place each musical instrument at its origination.
   
  I do not believe a tube, in and by itself, can recreate these characteristics, which maybe construed as "holographic imaging".
   
  You may, however, want to acquire some bineural recordings, which will create that "holographic" like sound


----------



## MrScary

Just curious since we don't have polls on this forum

What tubes are you using right now?

me= 1966 Mullard E88CC Great Britain


----------



## Misterrogers

Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ6


----------



## Rope

Mullard 6DJ8 IEC


----------



## tkteo

Still using the stock JJ. Trying out a pair of Tesla E88CC gold pin that come in a yellow and blue box.


----------



## olor1n

Stock JJ's in place, as I prefer them to the Cryo 6N23P and RCA 6BQ7A black plates. Waiting for some Amperex orange globes and Bugle Boys to arrive.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





rope said:


> Far be if for me to answer HF, and, or tube questions, since I'm reasonably new at the headphone game.
> 
> As it relates to traditional speakers, 90% of what the listener is going to hear is created by the speakers and environment the speakers are interacting with.  In this situation the environment can be altered to a great degree, which in turn, can, and usually does improve the sonic performance of the speakers.
> 
> ...


 


  You're undervaluing the importance of the DAC in a chain. Cables also have a bearing once other deficiencies are addressed.


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Stock JJ's in place, as I prefer them to the Cryo 6N23P and RCA 6BQ7A black plates. Waiting for some Amperex orange globes and Bugle Boys to arrive.


 

 Did you consider trying the Cryo JJs?  That sounded like an interesting option.


----------



## MrScary

bmoura said:


> Did you consider trying the Cryo JJs?  That sounded like an interesting option.




No I would never cryo the JJ's I would take a sledge hammer to them though they cannot compare to vintage tubes in the Lyr.


----------



## Theogenes

Okay, so late last night, I finished reading this ENTIRE thread, front to back. It took me three days of time after work to get it done, but I've been REALLY interested in the experiences everyone here has to share. While reading through this, I've purchased:
   
  -A pair of the 6n1p upgraded tubes from Schiit
  -Four pairs of RCA black plate 6bz7 from Tube Depot (CRAZY fast delivery!!)
  -A pair of GE smoked glass 6dj8/6922
   
  In addition, I already had some 6n1p pairs from my Dared MP-5 (some cheapo but decent Sovteks and an insanely crappy stock pair) and, of course, the JJ's from the Lyr. I haven't had a ton of time to do back-and-forth comparisons, so take these impressions with a correspondingly large chunk of salt, but here's what I've found so far:
   
  -For the record: I'm currently using my computer (Win Vista) as a source, USB to UDAC2 (acting as a DAC until I can get my Channel Islands VDA-2 from Knoxville), to my Schiit Lyr, to my LCD-2s. Until tonight, all cabling, etc was stock or stuff I had lying around (see below). 
   
  -The stock tubes do seem, to me, to be pretty awful (Mr. Scary nailed it). As soon as I switched to my cheapie Sovteks, the music immediately became clearer, a bit more lively, and substantially more involving. I can't imagine keeping them in the Lyr, but as always, YMMV. 
   
  -The comments made elsewhere here about the musicality of the RCA 6bz7 are quite true. They seem to bring a more vivid, living feel to the music. (Apologies for the lack of audiophile terminology-- I think too much talk about the sibilance of the transients overshadowing the sparkly treble would make me want to kick myself in my own nuts, and I'm not that flexible). Unfortunately, I found that my first pair had a very slight high-pitched whine in the left channel (which I originally thought was a funky noise from my computer reflecting off the wall next to me), which then led to the discovery that both of those tubes were _very_ microphonic (if a moth flicked a booger on one of these, I'd here it). So I swapped them out for another pair, and while they are still breaking in (I don't know if break-in is a real phenomenon or not, but it's such an easy fix if it is real that I just don't care), it seems like my left channel now has a noticeably higher noise floor (static-y sound that I can hear while music is playing). Of course, I've got two more pairs of these bad boys, I love the sound of them so far, and they're cheap, so I'm not complaining (seriously). It looks like I'm picking up on Mr. Scary's streak of less-than-perfect valves, but so far I'm at peace with it 
   
  -ALO audio appears to be selling a rebranded Dared MP-5 for $100 more than I paid for mine brand new in 2007/8. Don't know how this applies to the Schiit, just thought it was odd. 
   
  I have not yet listened to either the GE's or the Schiit upgrades, as they just came in today, but once I get a pretty solid bead on the sound of these puppies, I'm going to start swapping them around pretty extensively. Complicating matter somewhat is that I've had a pretty intense little spendy-fit and also bought two cables for the purposes of comparison, and the first one came (Whiplash Audio TVag v2, XLR 4-pin, Whiplash 4-pin to SE adapter) in tonight, meaning, naturally, that I just _had_ to plug it in now and listen, therefore introducing multiple variables into the system at one time. (Damn my love of audio toys!!) For the record, I am not super impressed thus far in the new cable-- it seems to make everything sound ever-so-slightly more brittle and less alive. Then again, this is the first night I've had them, and I don't know how much burn-in the previous owner gave them. We'll give it some time, and do some more swappin' when the Norse cables get here (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). 
   
  I realize this is just kind of a big ramble-y mess, but these are the thoughts I've had so far and I wanted to share. If there is anything in here that isn't technically accurate or in some other way manhandles the English language, my apologies-- I've been a Head-Fier for about 30 days so far 
   
  Looking forward to seeing what other great excuses you guys give me for blowing my hard-earned cash on audio toys!!!!


----------



## jamato8

So if you could kick yourself in the nuts, would you do it more than once? Or just make it easy on yourself and use your fist. On moth boogers, what I hate worse than that is when they fly by and my mouth is open. 
   
  So let the tubes burn in some. They have to settle also. Try and pick up some 6BZ7 grey plates, another nice cheap bit of pleasure like beer nuts and Ripple.


----------



## MrScary

theogenes said:


> Okay, so late last night, I finished reading this ENTIRE thread, front to back. It took me three days of time after work to get it done, but I've been REALLY interested in the experiences everyone here has to share. While reading through this, I've purchased:
> 
> -A pair of the 6n1p upgraded tubes from Schiit
> -Four pairs of RCA black plate 6bz7 from Tube Depot (CRAZY fast delivery!!)
> ...




Welcome to the forum sounds like you have had a bit of cash fit don't feel bad I'm still buying tubes I lied I said I was stopping I bought some very expensive tubes now this is my last set. IM all configured for about 6 months then Im going to go completely balanced.
As Jamato8 said one of the things with tubes is to let them burn in man before passing judgement I am burning in my NOS 1966 Mullard E88CC's right now and am enjoying their control of the highs. Something my system was missing


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> You're undervaluing the importance of the DAC in a chain. Cables also have a bearing once other deficiencies are addressed.


 
  A stand alone DAC could be a viable option, depending on a users source conversion currently employed, and the cost to benefit ratio be justified by its addition.
   
   
  A properly constructed cable with good termination is neutral, should neither add or detract from the sonic value of the sine wave, and act as a conduit in passing an audio signal from point A to B.
   
   
  The goal should be neutrality, once this standard is achieved, the user can, and should, tailor the audio to their specific tastes, which can be achieved with many inexpensive methods.
  If a user chooses to add a sonic altering cable to his/her audio chain, they're merely adding another variable to that chain.


----------



## athenaesword

for those of you using hd800s with your lyr, do you guys still find the pair to be overly bright/treble overemphasized? so far I've been listening to a new lyr with the hd800 for 2 days, and have found the combination to be quite fatiguing, which suggests that the lyr might not be that great a pair with the hd800, which is off-tangent from the glowing reviews the pairing has received on 6moons etc.. 
   
  to be fair to the lyr, just about every amp that I've tried with the hd800 has been too harsh for me - maybe the latter phones just aren't for me, but still hoping that some tube rolling can take the edge off. it would save me some time and money if someone who's tried this combination and has upgraded the tubes still finds them too fatiguing mentions something here! thanks!


----------



## Misterrogers

I don't have the HD800s, but I can tell you that if your headphones tend to be bright you can really tone that down with your choice of tubes. In my case, I enjoy the DT990/600s, but the treble can be a bit bright. If I pop in a pair of warmer tubes or tubes with very slight roll off on the top - you can strike a very pleasing balance.


----------



## MrScary

athenaesword said:


> for those of you using hd800s with your lyr, do you guys still find the pair to be overly bright/treble overemphasized? so far I've been listening to a new lyr with the hd800 for 2 days, and have found the combination to be quite fatiguing, which suggests that the lyr might not be that great a pair with the hd800, which is off-tangent from the glowing reviews the pairing has received on 6moons etc..
> 
> to be fair to the lyr, just about every amp that I've tried with the hd800 has been too harsh for me - maybe the latter phones just aren't for me, but still hoping that some tube rolling can take the edge off. it would save me some time and money if someone who's tried this combination and has upgraded the tubes still finds them too fatiguing mentions something here! thanks!




Well it could be the tubes in the Lyr the stock JJ's are very harsh you would have to change tubes to get rid of the harshness..
Also, what is your audio chain are you using silver interconnects? what Kind of DAC?


----------



## Ge03

I enjoy my HD800's with the Lyr. The only tube I feel doesn't really suit it are the popular cryo 6N23P that can be a bit too analytical and bright with the 800's
If I had to choose just for the Senns I would go for a pair of vintage (not NOS) Mullard ECC88. They are usually easier and much cheaper to pick up than the E88CC but you may have to try a few to get a pair with low microphonics. Bass may be a little fuller compared with the best of the rest but the mids and treble live up to the term "liquid" and sound stage can be phenomenal.


----------



## MrScary

ge03 said:


> I enjoy my HD800's with the Lyr. The only tube I feel doesn't really suit it are the popular cryo 6N23P that can be a bit too analytical and bright with the 800's
> If I had to choose just for the Senns I would go for a pair of vintage (not NOS) Mullard ECC88. They are usually easier and much cheaper to pick up than the E88CC but you may have to try a few to get a pair with low microphonics. Bass may be a little fuller compared with the best of the rest but the mids and treble live up to the term "liquid" and sound stage can be phenomenal.




I agree +1


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I am burning in my NOS 1966 Mullard E88CC's right now and am enjoying their control of the highs.


 


  Where did you get those? tubemonger has 1969-1978


----------



## MrScary

I got those through a friend they are hard to find the E88CC's Mullards 1960's your better off getting the ECC88 IEC's How much does tubemonger want for the E88CC's?


----------



## Theogenes

[size=medium]Just a brief update: after letting the RCA's settle in overnight, the static in the left channel was still very intrusive, so I swapped in the GE 6dj8s and let them run while I was at work. Been listening to Revocation's _Existence Is Futile_ album (after reading the recent MetalSucks guitarist rankings), and it sounds pretty darn good!! Clear, lively, and a healthy bottom-end so far. Doesn't seem to necessarily excel at any particular thing, but sounds pretty great overall. We'll see how they stack up with more time and more detailed comparisons with their valve-y brethren. 
   
  On a completely unrelated note, I finally got a chance to listen to some music on my new phone (which I use as my mobile source because I pretty much loathe Apple and everything they stand for), a Samsung Charge, and the SQ was a pretty obvious couple of steps up above my old Droid Incredible. I've heard that Samsung uses nicer DACs than other manufacturers, and I have no idea if that's true or pertinent, but it sure does sound a metric ton better... Also got in both of my pairs of Senn HD25-1 II cans in today (yes, I realize that this is a sickness, it's just that audiophoollery is 837 times too awesome for me to care too much), and I plan on having lots of fantastically embarrassing moments around the house and community where I spontaneously break into a wild wailing mess of kickass air-guitar shredding with my lil' Fiio E11 cranked up to, uh, 11 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I love this place. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   ​[/size]


----------



## caracara08

i know how this may seem.. (im sure ppl will say just read the thread, but it is 75 pages.)  
  what tubes do you think would pair nicely with a HD800 and 600 ohm beyers?
   
  i was looking at Gold Lions and some mullards. http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_Like_New_1969_78_E88CC_CV2492_Mitcham_p/541.htm
   
  would these Amperex be worth the extra money?
http://www.tubemonger.com/PHILIPS_NOS_1960s_Heelen_Holland_SQ_E88CC_6922_p/1121.htm
   
  sorry i know this question gets asked all the time, i just cant sit through 75 pages of posts.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I got those through a friend they are hard to find the E88CC's Mullards 1960's your better off getting the ECC88 IEC's How much does tubemonger want for the E88CC's?


 


  $125 for a matched pair


----------



## MrScary

caracara08 said:


> i know how this may seem.. (im sure ppl will say just read the thread, but it is 75 pages.)
> what tubes do you think would pair nicely with a HD800 and 600 ohm beyers?
> 
> i was looking at Gold Lions and some mullards. http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_Like_New_1969_78_E88CC_CV2492_Mitcham_p/541.htm
> ...




The Mullard E88CC's are your ticket.. You want to tame those highs of the HD800's .. The Phillips Amperex are going to have extended highs I have a phillips Valvo set and they have a similar sound signature.

Try the Mullard E88CC's first I think they will be great for you if you dont like it give me a ring and I will buy them off you.. for a backup backup pair..  Just don't buy the GL's they are not good tubes they have a funny sound signature.


----------



## jamato8

I look forward to someone finding some Amperex that are really Russian made. There are many but they sound very fine. The box will be Amperex, the tube will be fatter and no seams on top. 
   
  MrScary, you are scaring me with that avatar.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I look forward to someone finding some Amperex that are really Russian made. There are many but they sound very fine. The box will be Amperex, the tube will be fatter and no seams on top.
> 
> MrScary, you are scaring me with that avatar.




hahaha I put it up just for you Jasmto8


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  ty, i actually won an auction for some GL too. so i guess ill have both sets to try out! oh this tubesession is not going to be good.  (see what i did there? tube obsession? )


----------



## WNBC

I can see why a couple around here love the IEC Mullard ECC88 and want a 2nd pair.  I got a pair from Ebay for around $80.  Now I want a 2nd pair as well.  Love them from top to bottom and they seem to have a bit more punch in the low end as well.  They also appear to be a little more neutral, less warm which is nice change.  Not sure what I have that can de-thrown these.
   

  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> The Mullard E88CC's are your ticket.. You want to tame those highs of the HD800's .. The Phillips Amperex are going to have extended highs I have a phillips Valvo set and they have a similar sound signature.
> Try the Mullard E88CC's first I think they will be great for you if you dont like it give me a ring and I will buy them off you.. for a backup backup pair..
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> I can see why a couple around here love the IEC Mullard ECC88 and want a 2nd pair.  I got a pair from Ebay for around $80.  Now I want a 2nd pair as well.  Love them from top to bottom and they seem to have a bit more punch in the low end as well.  They also appear to be a little more neutral, less warm which is nice change.  Not sure what I have that can de-thrown these.




Only Mullards that probably trump them are the E88CC's but Im sure they have a similar sound


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I look forward to someone finding some Amperex that are really Russian made. There are many but they sound very fine. The box will be Amperex, the tube will be fatter and no seams on top.
> 
> MrScary, you are scaring me with that avatar.




Jamto8 Now you have scared me )


----------



## LiqTenExp

I've been listening these two pairs for a little while now.  I prefer the IEC version, the CV version can be a little over powering in the mid-bass area for rock.


----------



## athenaesword

hey i was using the  wavelength proton asynchronous USB dac and some Chord cobra RCA cables. in the end I decided that nothing was going to really change the sound signature of the hd800. i tried a full tube Darkvoice 337 with fully upgraded tubes  (this was based on skylab's choice of tubes i think it was a friend's amp) today with the hd800, and while it was much more listenable compared to the stock lyr that I had been listening 2 for 2 days, it felt like I was trying too hard to change the original sound sig fo the headphones.
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## athenaesword

so you felt that the senns weren't bright/harsh with the stock tubes?
  Quote: 





ge03 said:


> I enjoy my HD800's with the Lyr. The only tube I feel doesn't really suit it are the popular cryo 6N23P that can be a bit too analytical and bright with the 800's
> If I had to choose just for the Senns I would go for a pair of vintage (not NOS) Mullard ECC88. They are usually easier and much cheaper to pick up than the E88CC but you may have to try a few to get a pair with low microphonics. Bass may be a little fuller compared with the best of the rest but the mids and treble live up to the term "liquid" and sound stage can be phenomenal.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





liqtenexp said:


> I've been listening these two pairs for a little while now.  I prefer the IEC version, the CV version can be a little over powering in the mid-bass area for rock.


 

 Amen to the IEC's.  +1


----------



## jamato8

I just got another set of the 6922 in Siemens. These are a matched date code of 22 68, later than I like tubes but they sound very good. Clean and yet the bloom of realism.


----------



## olor1n

Received my matched pairs of made in Holland Amperex orange globes and Bugle Boys. I've just slotted in the A-frame 1975 orange globes and I'm stunned at the depth and width of soundstage and the layered textures being presented. Vocals are really smooth, acoustic and distorted guitars (already a strength of the HD650 presentation) are lush and detailed, and certainly the most organic and energetic I've heard through these headphones. Bass control and balance is the best I've heard out of the tubes I've tried. It's well defined with weight, occupying its own space. Imaging is fantastic, as is the resolve. Songs I'm very familiar with sound like remixes.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I just got another set of the 6922 in Siemens. These are a matched date code of 22 68, later than I like tubes but they sound very good. Clean and yet the bloom of realism.




I have some Siemens and Halske O getter's early 60's coming in about 3 weeks, I will give feedback when I get them.
 I also have some Siemens and Halske A frame's coming in as well. Tube world puts them in the top 5 CCA's to get we will see.
They cost a bundle thats it for me with tubes I have now spent ummm schiit I dont even want to count.. I will cry

CCa Siemens & Halske
 1960's "O" getter halo
 "Rarest and most sought after CCa, has "gray shield" between plates, 
 Most realistic sounding holographic soundstage, pure seductive sonic joy,
 complex symphonic images emerge effortlessly"


CCa Siemens & Halske
 A-FRAME construction late 1960's - early 1970's
 "beautiful open air holographic images, low microphonic tube construction, rare


----------



## WNBC

We're anxiously waiting the reviews for these tubes as well as price-to-perfomance opinions, essentially if you had to do it over again would you buy them.  I've seen Siemens CCa go for mucho dinero and would love to know if they are worth the money.  IEC Mullards are awesome, working on getting a 2nd pair for backup.  I guess I could try some of the Bugle Boys but why not go for the full CCa monty.  
   
  MrScary, What's going to happen to happen all those other tubes?  Probably more than you could use in a lifetime  

  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I have some Siemens and Halske O getter's early 60's coming in about 3 weeks, I will give feedback when I get them.
> I also have some Siemens and Halske A frame's coming in as well. Tube world puts them in the top 5 CCA's to get we will see.
> They cost a bundle thats it for me with tubes I have now spent ummm schiit I dont even want to count.. I will cry
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> We're anxiously waiting the reviews for these tubes as well as price-to-perfomance opinions, essentially if you had to do it over again would you buy them.  I've seen Siemens CCa go for mucho dinero and would love to know if they are worth the money.  IEC Mullards are awesome, working on getting a 2nd pair for backup.  I guess I could try some of the Bugle Boys but why not go for the full CCa monty.
> 
> MrScary, What's going to happen to happen all those other tubes?  Probably more than you could use in a lifetime




Im going to sell all the tubes Im not using I will give the users on the thread first dibs at them. It will be about a month before I can go through and see what I want to keep etc...


----------



## Ge03

Quote: 





athenaesword said:


> so you felt that the senns weren't bright/harsh with the stock tubes?


 

 Unfortunately one of my stock JJ tubes was faulty, so I've never really been able to assess them


----------



## jamato8

Really enjoying the Siemens Halske E88CC/ 6922's. They don't knock my socks off, but they are pure sounding and very musical. Beautiful sweet highs. The date code on the three I just got are 1968 22nd week.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Really enjoying the Siemens Halske E88CC/ 6922's. They don't knock my socks off, but they are pure sounding and very musical. Beautiful sweet highs. The date code on the three I just got are 1968 22nd week.




That Avatar Jamato8 looks like Demons looking at me...


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> That Avatar Jamato8 looks like Demons looking at me...


 
  I took the image the other day. Here is the full image. These Siemens are sounding more and more realistic. Very enjoyable.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I took the image the other day. Here is the full image. These Siemens are sounding more and more realistic. Very enjoyable.




cool very nice


----------



## zhunter

Hi everyone,
   
  I'm new here but had been lurking for reading your impressions and I did read all 76 pages of this thread, very interesting indeed. Well, I just pulled the trigger on 3 pairs that I found on ebay. 1 pair of Saratov 6N23P 70' which is pretty matched according to seller's test result: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350460027675&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
   
  another pair of GE 6BZ7 and RCA 6BZ7 from us ebay. I'm looking forward to your impressions about new tubes, any suggestion is appreciated, trance, metal, and classic rock are my favorite genres.


----------



## MrScary

zhunter said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm new here but had been lurking for reading your impressions and I did read all 76 pages of this thread, very interesting indeed. Well, I just pulled the trigger on 3 pairs that I found on ebay. 1 pair of Saratov 6N23P 70' which is pretty matched according to seller's test result: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350460027675&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
> 
> another pair of GE 6BZ7 and RCA 6BZ7 from us ebay. I'm looking forward to your impressions about new tubes, any suggestion is appreciated, trance, metal, and classic rock are my favorite genres.




You will probably like the RCA's alot they go good with trance etc.... They have a nice airiness to them.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> We're anxiously waiting the reviews for these tubes as well as price-to-perfomance opinions, essentially if you had to do it over again would you buy them.  I've seen Siemens CCa go for mucho dinero and would love to know if they are worth the money.  IEC Mullards are awesome, *working on getting a 2nd pair for backup.*  I guess I could try some of the Bugle Boys but why not go for the full CCa monty.
> 
> MrScary, What's going to happen to happen all those other tubes?  Probably more than you could use in a lifetime


 
  If memory serves correctly, after I had stated I was through purchasing tubes, you gave me the raspberries for wanting a second pair of Mullards as backup?


----------



## WNBC

Yeah and I've also claimed to have stopped buying tubes several times now but luckily nobody has called me out on that.   I wasn't expecting the IECs to be that good over the CV2492/3 and all for under $100.  I do see the end of the tunnel now....it's another pair of IECs and maybe try to get lucky with some reasonable bids on Siemens & Haske ECC88  non-CCa or CCa.  
   
  I hear CCa are essentially the cream of the crop of the ECC88 so while the non-CCa ECC88 aren't the best they are still 2nd best at a better price-performance ratio.  Can anyone confirm that?     

  
  Quote: 





rope said:


> If memory serves correctly, after I had stated I was through purchasing tubes, you gave me the raspberries for wanting a second pair of Mullards as backup?


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Yeah and I've also claimed to have stopped buying tubes several times now but luckily nobody has called me out on that.   I wasn't expecting the IECs to be that good over the CV2492/3 and all for under $100.  I do see the end of the tunnel now....it's another pair of IECs and maybe try to get lucky with some reasonable bids on Siemens & Haske ECC88  non-CCa or CCa.
> 
> I hear CCa are essentially the cream of the crop of the ECC88 so while the non-CCa ECC88 aren't the best they are still 2nd best at a better price-performance ratio.  Can anyone confirm that?




hahahaha you are correct I have said I was not buying anymore tubes.. But the sickness is deep man


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> hahahaha you are correct I have said I was not buying anymore tubes.. But the sickness is deep man





You may want to wait on getting the Siemens E88CC as I have a pair now and plan on selling them with my lot of tubes in about 3 weeks


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Yeah and I've also claimed to have stopped buying tubes several times now but luckily nobody has called me out on that.   I wasn't expecting the IECs to be that good over the CV2492/3 and all for under $100.  I do see the end of the tunnel now....it's another pair of IECs and maybe try to get lucky with some reasonable bids on Siemens & Haske ECC88  non-CCa or CCa.
> 
> I hear CCa are essentially the cream of the crop of the ECC88 so while the non-CCa ECC88 aren't the best they are still 2nd best at a better price-performance ratio.  Can anyone confirm that?


 

 Yup, you have the disease, just can't leave well enough alone.  When you find that tube nirvana, sell me you IEC's.


----------



## WNBC

I think I'm done but won't say for sure.  Gotz the IEC, a couple other Mullard 6DJ8s, a valvo 6922, and the usual suspects (6BZ7, 6N23Ps, stock Lyr tubes).  My CV2493 I returned to Tubemonger.   I think it will be interesting to see what scraps we can pick up from MrScary when he sells off his stock.  I do think I will hold off on the nirvana Siemens & Halske CCa for now.  Things are sounding pretty good right now.  I guess they also sounded good 10 tubes ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  Quote: 





rope said:


> Yup, you have the disease, just can't leave well enough alone.  When you find that tube nirvana, sell me you IEC's.


----------



## MrScary

Well I have the worst luck I got the Siemens & Halske A Frames in and they hum its a very slight humm but the guy I bought them from on Audiogon said they were tested
sadly they are NOS and being so old god only knows where they have been. He is returning my money so that's a good thing the sad thing is besides the hum they sound so freaking good
I just cant stand any hum. Cant hear it with music playing but just bugs me.. Been burning them in for a couple hours hoping the hum would go away but no luck. ;(

Well hopefully the O Getter Siemens and Halske will be ok those are the ones that I really want to be ok *sigh*


----------



## WNBC

Is a faint hum bad?  Most of my tubes are quiet and one of my favorites has a faint hum.  I'm living with it, great, rare tubes so I'd rather keep them.   My CV2493 developed a bad hum after 3 weeks so I did get a refund.  
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well I have the worst luck I got the Siemens & Halske A Frames in and they hum its a very slight humm but the guy I bought them from on Audiogon said they were tested
> sadly they are NOS and being so old god only knows where they have been. He is returning my money so that's a good thing the sad thing is besides the hum they sound so freaking good
> I just cant stand any hum. Cant hear it with music playing but just bugs me.. Been burning them in for a couple hours hoping the hum would go away but no luck. ;(
> 
> Well hopefully the O Getter Siemens and Halske will be ok those are the ones that I really want to be ok *sigh*


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Is a faint hum bad?  Most of my tubes are quiet and one of my favorites has a faint hum.  I'm living with it, great, rare tubes so I'd rather keep them.   My CV2493 developed a bad hum after 3 weeks so I did get a refund.


 
  It is only bad if it bothers you. Normally the quieter the tube the better, since we use them for audio.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Is a faint hum bad?  Most of my tubes are quiet and one of my favorites has a faint hum.  I'm living with it, great, rare tubes so I'd rather keep them.   My CV2493 developed a bad hum after 3 weeks so I did get a refund.




Yes just a very faint hum just bothers me once any music is playing it goes away just frustrating man I have had so many bad tubes.. ;(


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> It is only bad if it bothers you. Normally the quieter the tube the better, since we use them for audio.




Yeah Jamato8 that's the thing I have to weigh does it really bother me. I have alot of thinking to do.. Actually I forgot to mention it was a quad matched set I was going to sell a set to someone that wanted a set but so much for that two of the tubes are so noisy that they drown out the music ;( My bad luck continues


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


mrscary said:


> Yeah Jamato8 that's the thing I have to weigh does it really bother me. I have alot of thinking to do.. Actually I forgot to mention it was a quad matched set I was going to sell a set to someone that wanted a set but so much for that two of the tubes are so noisy that they drown out the music ;( My bad luck continues


 
  When I have my speaker system set up the preamp I use, my balanced output pre, which uses the 27 tube, I have a couple that can hiss and hum. With the music they are great and excellent sounding but with headphones, hum or hiss can be too much to enjoy. I have some tubes (these are from 1928 to 1933) that are so microphonic you can yell and hear it through the speakers but they are also very musical as you get a little bit of feedback and it creates an acoustical venue that sounds live. It's all in the balance MrScary, all in the balance. So what are the next tubes you are getting? Have you gotten any Siemens? If I was back home I would send you a pair of the Amperex Russian made tubes.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Quote:
> When I have my speaker system set up the preamp I use, my balanced output pre, which uses the 27 tube, I have a couple that can hiss and hum. With the music they are great and excellent sounding but with headphones, hum or hiss can be too much to enjoy. I have some tubes (these are from 1928 to 1933) that are so microphonic you can yell and hear it through the speakers but they are also very musical as you get a little bit of feedback and it creates an acoustical venue that sounds live. It's all in the balance MrScary, all in the balance. So what are the next tubes you are getting? Have you gotten any Siemens? If I was back home I would send you a pair of the Amperex Russian made tubes.




The Siemens & Halske A frames are the tubes Im talking about.The two I'm using now are usable the hum is very faint and you cannot hear it with any music playing on two of the tubes but the other 2 tubes are unusable. I think I can live with the slight slight hum Im going to talk to the seller and just get half my money back
really a bummer still. But I know what you mean its all about balance. The sad thing is these things some fantastic and it does appear that after burning in for the last 10 hours the hum has lessened some. I had a set of mullards that hummed real bad but it went away in like 5 minutes.

Next up is the Siemens & Halse O getter's the ones that I really want to work ok.. I wont get them in for a week or so. I'm hoping that they will be ok they were hard to get at the price I paid they are suppose to be NOS and tested but we both know how that goes


----------



## perfect-pitch

Hello,
   
  i need your help. I´ve got a Lyr with some alternative tubes a few days ago. But tube rolling is quite difficult in my eyes. I can´t get the tubes out of my amp without having a lot of patience.....Do you have some  tips for me getting the tubes out of the Lyr easily?
  Maybe there a some kind of tools making rolling easier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks
   
  perfect-pitch


----------



## MrScary

perfect-pitch said:


> Hello,
> 
> i need your help. I´ve got a Lyr with some alternative tubes a few days ago. But tube rolling is quite difficult in my eyes. I can´t get the tubes out of my amp without having a lot of patience.....Do you have some  tips for me getting the tubes out of the Lyr easily?
> Maybe there a some kind of tools making rolling easier
> ...




Well I have big hands so I use the Electro-harmonix tube glove
I also swap tubes hot so I need it. Here is the link for it
ONe of the things you can do is use an old rubber cable and wrap it around the tube and pull up slightly and wiggle it around that works kinda...
any rubber piece will probably work
heres the link for the tube glove
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=072-899


----------



## olor1n

I use tape that's not too adhesive attached to the top of the tubes to make a handle. One hand pressing down and holding the tape onto the tube and wiggling gently if required and the other lifting the handle to pull the tube out of the socket.
   
  DeoxIt Pro Gold applied to the tube pins also makes tube rolling a lot easier.


----------



## jamato8

[size=medium]

  Quote: 





> *perfect-pitch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ...





  It can be frustrating. I wish they had set the tubes about a 1/4 of an inch higher. They would have run cooler to though tubes mostly run hot as it is their nature. 
   
  Quote:


​[/size]

  You guys with these skulls got me scared. I am going to need shock therapy.


----------



## perfect-pitch

Hello,
   
  thanks for the fast answers. Well, the tube glove has been ordered from a german dealer. I will check out some kind of rubber tube dampers for changing. Maybe it works.
   
  Yes, tube rolling can be frustrating


----------



## perfect-pitch

> [size=medium]
> Quote:​[/size]
> 
> You guys with these skulls got me scared. I am going to need shock therapy.


 

 Yes, thats me in the casket in a few years


----------



## MrScary

perfect-pitch said:


> Hello,
> 
> thanks for the fast answers. Well, the tube glove has been ordered from a german dealer. I will check out some kind of rubber tube dampers for changing. Maybe it works.
> 
> Yes, tube rolling can be frustrating




smart man you will get the tube out in one second


----------



## Ge03

perfect-pitch said:


> Hello,
> 
> i need your help. I´ve got a Lyr with some alternative tubes a few days ago. But tube rolling is quite difficult in my eyes. I can´t get the tubes out of my amp without having a lot of patience.....Do you have some  tips for me getting the tubes out of the Lyr easily?
> Maybe there a some kind of tools making rolling easier
> ...




Painters masking tape


----------



## perfect-pitch

mrscary said:


> perfect-pitch said:
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> ...




So you think that the tube glove was the right decision? One Second-Not bad


----------



## MrScary

perfect-pitch said:


> So you think that the tube glove was the right decision? One Second-Not bad




It will allow you to pull tubes in one second and pull hot tubes out if you want to do like I do and be an impatient Headfi guy..
You can't go wrong with it. Once you use it you will be like wow no more struggle. Im sure tape works as well
if you want to sticky up your tubes but the tube glove doesn't just go over the tube it grabs it so all you have to
do is pull up..


----------



## Rope

I wear a condom (Magnum) over my thumb and index finger.  Works like a charm, and the added benefit you ask?  Little chance of impregnating the tube.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> I wear a condom (Magnum) over my thumb and index finger.  Works like a charm, and the added benefit you ask?  Little chance of impregnating the tube.




somehow that doesn't surprise me


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> somehow that doesn't surprise me


 


 A "tool" for every thing


----------



## WNBC

My slow technique room temp cool down or fan for fast cool down and then disposable purple nitrile gloves.  Any latex glove will also work.  Suckers come off easily.  No Michael Jackson gloves necessary.


----------



## MrScary

Well I burned in my humming tube last night and it took 12 hours but Now I have one set of CCA Siemens & Halske A frames that are good no noise no Hum.
IM a very happy MrScary the other set is a loss they have so much humm I don't think any burn in will get rid of it.


----------



## perfect-pitch

I've checked out some Amperex Bugle Boys NOS . Very strong bass and lots of dynamics. 
Still waiting for the Tube Glove


----------



## olor1n

I had a brief listen of some 1965 Bugle Boys earlier as well. Vocals are slightly more natural than the Orange Globes, with the highs seemingly more extended and crystalline. Depth of soundstage is about the same, but the Globes have more width and are more dynamic with better bass. Both are very nice tubes and there's great synergy in my chain with the HD650. These Amperex tubes put the Cryo 6N23P to shame.


----------



## tkteo

I notice that the 6BZ7 is also available as an option for the Lyr now.
   
  http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=8


----------



## MrScary

tkteo said:


> I notice that the 6BZ7 is also available as an option for the Lyr now.
> 
> http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=8




schiit I got 4 GE's for 16.00 a little high priced but I guess for the convenience of not having to troll ebay and tube sites looking for them it may be worth it.

The GE's sound good nice entry starting point into the tube rolling world


----------



## tkteo

I am still deciding whether to try the Mullard E88CC or stick with my current swap of Tesla E88CC.


----------



## MrScary

The Mullard E88CC's have a wonderful warm sound to them not much air
but they sound very nice one of my top 4 favorites. If you want more than one
flavor of tube then go for it... I will have a set for sale soon as I have another
backup set coming but I have settled on the CCa Siemens & Halske A Frames
as my current favorite tube...


----------



## Frank I

My Mullard 2492 are micro phonic and noisy in my amps. the problem is to find a reasonable priced dealer who test the tubes like Kevin deal and Jim Mcshane. I went back to the McShane matched Genelex 6922 in my Decware and to my ears they are good than any NOS I have heard to date


----------



## MrScary

frank i said:


> My Mullard 2492 are micro phonic and noisy in my amps. the problem is to find a reasonable priced dealer who test the tubes like Kevin deal and Jim Mcshane. I went back to the McShane matched Genelex 6922 in my Decware and to my ears they are good than any NOS I have heard to date




Its always a crap shoot with any vintage tubes. Even after testing the tubes can be microphonic and or noisy. Unless they actually test them in an amp and listen all you can do is try to find a good dealer and stick with them..


----------



## ZorgDK

Now I gotta know - What's a microphonic tube? What does it sound like?
   
  EDIT: Found the answer myself


----------



## ZorgDK

Good to see Schiit is expanding their tube selection with the GE 6BZ7. I agree 20$ is pricey, but I think it's ok since they're NOS and properly matched. And you get a handy box that you can store other tubes in.
 ​


----------



## obazavil

I'm wondering which tubes should I get:
   
  1) I can get the Lyr with E88CC and get the GE 6BZ7 with them for $20 or trough eBay
   
  2) or just Lyr with GE 6BZ7 and forget to test the E88CC
   
  I think 1) sounds better right?


----------



## caracara08

more tubes always = better. lol


----------



## MrScary

obazavil said:


> I'm wondering which tubes should I get:
> 
> 1) I can get the Lyr with E88CC and get the GE 6BZ7 with them for $20 or trough eBay
> 
> ...




Im going to break my own rule and say this If I had a choice between the two and I do. I would put the Mullard E88CC in before putting the GE's in. The Mullards have a much more balanced tone and sound more realistic IMHO.


----------



## Rope

How bout the Schiit BIFROST?


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> How bout the Schiit BIFROST?




What about it?


----------



## MrScary

obazavil said:


> I'm wondering which tubes should I get:
> 
> 1) I can get the Lyr with E88CC and get the GE 6BZ7 with them for $20 or trough eBay
> 
> ...




Which E88CC are you talking about I hope not the JJ's


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Im going to break my own rule and say this If I had a choice between the two and I do. I would put the Mullard E88CC in before putting the GE's in. The Mullards have a much more balanced tone and sound more realistic IMHO.


 


  Ah.. since Lyr can now ship with GE I meant to buy Lyr with JJ E88CC and order the GE, or order it just with GE and forget about JJ's, depending if you guys thought was worth to have the JJ too.
  I will eventually get the Mullard E88CC (Vintage or IEC, to decide later) since you guys love them to dead


----------



## MrScary

obazavil said:


> Ah.. since Lyr can now ship with GE I meant to buy Lyr with JJ E88CC and order the GE, or order it just with GE and forget about JJ's, depending if you guys thought was worth to have the JJ too.
> I will eventually get the Mullard E88CC (Vintage or IEC, to decide later) since you guys love them to dead




Get the GE's man the JJ's are ummmm questionable tubes


----------



## Rope

If you would like to appreciate the GE's, purchase the Lyr with the JJ's, after all the GE's can be had for around $5.00 a pop.  At least you'll have some contrast by purchasing the JJ's.
   
  In my experience the JJ's are all but midrangeless.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> If you would like to appreciate the GE's, purchase the Lyr with the JJ's, after all the GE's can be had for around $5.00 a pop.  At least you'll have some contrast by purchasing the JJ's.
> 
> In my experience the JJ's are all but midrangeless.




I agree they have issues midrange is one of them alot of people though don't want to go on the roller coaster ride of tube rolling easier to get it from Schiit..


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I agree they have issues midrange is one of them alot of people though don't want to go on the roller coaster ride of tube rolling easier to get it from Schiit..


 

  If the user doesn't care to tube roll, the GE's are a solid choice, however, considering the nature of the Lyr, they may want to reconsider the reason for purchasing this amp. 
   
  If it wasn't for the Lyr's flexability, in terms of tubes on the input side, and multiple sonic characteristics achieved by swapping tubes, why not purchase an SS amp?


----------



## HK_sends

I am sticking with the Mullard 6DJ8s.  Now, I gotta figure out what to do with the other thirty sets of tubes I don't intend to keep...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  ...offer them up as a giant tube rolling kit or sell them in lots.  I have everything from the $125 a pair Mullard E88CC to the
  $6 a pair GE 6BZ7s.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I am sticking with the Mullard 6DJ8s.  Now, I gotta figure out what to do with the other thirty sets of tubes I don't intend to keep...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Seems you don't have a pair of Gold Lions in your collection.  May I interest you?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


rope said:


> Seems you don't have a pair of Gold Lions in your collection.  May I interest you?


 
  Actually, I do...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the cryo'd 6N23P-EV's...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

About the only thing I don't have that I want to try is the RCA 6BZ7s.  I just can't find a sale before they are already snapped up.
  I have GE's, Raytheon (not bad, just needs extended burn-in), and Westinghouse Canada.  I really wanted to try the RCA's.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> If the user doesn't care to tube roll, the GE's are a solid choice, however, considering the nature of the Lyr, they may want to reconsider the reason for purchasing this amp.
> 
> If it wasn't for the Lyr's flexability, in terms of tubes on the input side, and multiple sonic characteristics achieved by swapping tubes, why not purchase an SS amp?




Good words man well said I agree 110%
Also alot of end users have never had a tube amp then they get one and complain that it doesn't sound good hahaha. Well welcome to the tube rolling thread we all have a reason for using the tubes we do and it took time to find that special tube
IMHO its a good learning experience for many people that have never used tubes before.


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> About the only thing I don't have that I want to try is the RCA 6BZ7s.  I just can't find a sale before they are already snapped up.
> I have GE's, Raytheon (not bad, just needs extended burn-in), and Westinghouse Canada.  I really wanted to try the RCA's.
> 
> Cheers!
> ...




The RCA's have alot of air they are great for Jazz and Techno that is for being a low cost tube.


----------



## Misterrogers

If we were talking about an OTL amp here, I'd agree with you gents. With a hybrid like Lyr that can hand a wide range of headphones, impedances, and voltage requirements fairly well - I see good reason to get Lyr even if you don't want to roll but want an amp that can handle many headphones well.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> If we were talking about an OTL amp here, I'd agree with you gents. With a hybrid like Lyr that can hand a wide range of headphones, impedances, and voltage requirements fairly well - I see good reason to get Lyr even if you don't want to roll but want an amp that can handle many headphones well.




Yes but the problem is they get the Lyr then they say things like "This doesn't sound good etc" they have to understand that you are adding an addition to your audio chain i.e. tubes. And different tubes sound better for different headphones.
getting a one for all with a tube amp ain't going to happen..


----------



## Misterrogers

Point take MrScary. But, as long as Lyr ships with decent tubes (which it will now), without rolling they're no worse off than getting an SS amp sound wise (one sound for all cans).


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Point take MrScary. But, as long as Lyr ships with decent tubes (which it will now), without rolling they're no worse off than getting an SS amp sound wise (one sound for all cans).




Yes I agree to an extent but tube amps have a heart that beats and one tube for all doesn't usually work. But hopefully new buyers will get the GE's and the JJ's that way they can start to learn the difference that it makes in their audio chain.. Then adjust if necessary the whole idea of a tube amp is to customize it 
for your liking and audio setup.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Yes but the problem is they get the Lyr then they say things like "This doesn't sound good etc" they have to understand that you are adding an addition to your audio chain i.e. tubes. And different tubes sound better for different headphones.
> getting a one for all with a tube amp ain't going to happen..


 
  Not that different tubes don't sound better with different headphones, different tubes sound different/better with the same headphone. Not many folks like their music at a neutral standard, although neutral is a good zero point that the user can always compare with.  In the case of the Lyr, the user can tailor the sound to their specific tastes.
   
   
  When I'm evaluating tubes, or anything for that matter, I always use the same HF as used before the change.  That means matched volume levels set with a volt meter.  If I change more than one thing at a time, I'm at a loss when attempting to evaluate what's responsible for the different sonic values I hear.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Not that different tubes don't sound better with different headphones, different tubes sound different/better with the same headphone. Not many folks like their music at a neutral standard, although neutral is a good zero point that the user can always compare with.  In the case of the Lyr, the user can tailor the sound to their specific tastes.
> 
> 
> When I'm evaluating tubes, or anything for that matter, I always use the same HF as used before the change.  That means matched volume levels set with a volt meter.  If I change more than one thing at a time, I'm at a loss when attempting to evaluate what's responsible for the different sonic values I hear.




+1 same here


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well I have big hands so I use the Electro-harmonix tube glove
> I also swap tubes hot so I need it. Here is the link for it
> ONe of the things you can do is use an old rubber cable and wrap it around the tube and pull up slightly and wiggle it around that works kinda...
> any rubber piece will probably work
> ...


 

 I recently picked up the Tube Glove.  Excellent!  A must have accessory for the tube rolling faithful.


----------



## MrScary

bmoura said:


> I recently picked up the Tube Glove.  Excellent!  A must have accessory for the tube rolling faithful.




Yep I hot rolled 3 tube sets today love it good choice


----------



## ZorgDK

Got my Brimar CV2492 with goldpins today, I believe they're from 1969. Picked them up on Ebay for 50$ from a seller from the UK. I've only listened to them a short while but I'm very much liking the sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I've been running GE 6BZ7 for the last couple of weeks and my initial impression is that Brimar tubes sounds better overall. There's more power in the bass and 's' sounds in vocals seem more well rounded. The high treble is impressively detailed on the HE-6 now and it's still smooth, pleasant and well bodied.
   
  I had the impression that the GE's sounded slightly compressed compared to the 6N23P's that I used before, that's cured now for sure.  
   
  Definitely the best tubes I've tried so far. My tube inventory counts the JJ's, Schiit 6N1P, plain 80's 6N23P and GE 6BZ7, and the now Brimars.


----------



## MrScary

zorgdk said:


> Got my Brimar CV2492 with goldpins today, I believe they're from 1969. Picked them up on Ebay for 50$ from a seller from the UK. I've only listened to them a short while but I'm very much liking the sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah the Brimars are in my top 4 favorites I ran them for several weeks before I got my CCA simens & Halske's. They sound real nice


----------



## ZorgDK

Cool, what's your current top 4, MrScary?


----------



## Misterrogers

+1 on the Brimars. I have two sets, and they're definitely some of the best with Lyr. Listening to them now.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> Cool, what's your current top 4, MrScary?


 


  +1


----------



## MrScary

obazavil said:


> +1




My top 4 is as follows

1. CCa Siemens & Halske A Frames
2. Valvo CCA E88CC 1966
3. Mullard E88CC 1966
4 Brimar 2492's 60's

3 and 4 are almost a tie.


----------



## zhunter

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> My top 4 is as follows
> 
> 1. CCa Siemens & Halske A Frames
> 2. Valvo CCA E88CC 1966
> ...


 

 How much did you pay for a matched pair of CCa Siemens & Halske MrScary?
  I've just found some auctions of them on ebay, but Im not sure which one is the real CCa Siemens & Halske although the sellers claimed that they are. One noticable difference is the printed names on the tubes, one pair got "SIEMENS E88CC" and "Made in Germany" on the back, the other pair got only "SIEMENS CCa". I'm confused, please help!


----------



## WNBC

Here is a link that shows some pics of the various Siemens tubes.  Unless the writing has been rubbed off the tube should say CCa on it somewhere.  MrScary and others will know more about the lettering requirements.
http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/SieTel%20E88CC/E88CC.htm
  
  Quote: 





zhunter said:


> How much did you pay for a matched pair of CCa Siemens & Halske MrScary?
> I've just found some auctions of them on ebay, but Im not sure which one is the real CCa Siemens & Halske although the sellers claimed that they are. One noticable difference is the printed names on the tubes, one pair got "SIEMENS E88CC" and "Made in Germany" on the back, the other pair got only "SIEMENS CCa". I'm confused, please help!


----------



## log0

Are these the Mullards that people say have fantastic synergy with the Lyr? Anyone see an issue with buying these? I realize they don't say they're tested.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2Pcs-NOS-Mullard-ECC88-6DJ8-E188CC-CCa-6922-UK-made-/290580441748?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a7f1aa94


----------



## WNBC

At $109 with no testing I'd stay away but that's me.  I buy from Ebay but usually the seller has done some readings on the tubes and has a good history of selling tubes.
   
  Quote: 





log0 said:


> Are these the Mullards that people say have fantastic synergy with the Lyr? Anyone see an issue with buying these? I realize they don't say they're tested.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/2Pcs-NOS-Mullard-ECC88-6DJ8-E188CC-CCa-6922-UK-made-/290580441748?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a7f1aa94


----------



## WNBC

Cool, I need to try out my Valvo E88CC but they are not the CCa version.  Any experience with the non-CCa version?
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> My top 4 is as follows
> 
> 1. CCa Siemens & Halske A Frames
> 2. Valvo CCA E88CC 1966
> ...


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> About the only thing I don't have that I want to try is the *RCA 6BZ7s*.  I just can't find a sale before they are already snapped up.
> I have GE's, Raytheon (not bad, just needs extended burn-in), and Westinghouse Canada.  I really wanted to try the RCA's.
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


 

 Ahhh, have I got a deal for you.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Cool, I need to try out my Valvo E88CC but they are not the CCa version.  Any experience with the non-CCa version?




What color is the labeling white or Red or another color they made all kinds.
I have some red labeled E88CC's (Holland) they sound great almost as good as the CCA's


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Ahhh, have I got a deal for you.




free + shipping ? hahahaha


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> free + shipping ? hahahaha


 

 If HK wants to try the RCA's, I'd be willing to mail them, if he like them, and wants to keep them, he can send me what he thinks they're worth.  If not, send them back.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> If HK wants to try the RCA's, I'd be willing to mail them, if he like them, and wants to keep them, he can send me what he thinks they're worth.  If not, send them back.




Wow rope you are almost cool {{laughs}}


----------



## WNBC

Red label, no box from Ebay seller.  $60 for the pair.  Likely used, not NOS.  I've been using the IEC Mullards and haven't thought about rolling in the Valvo's until I saw the Valvo CCa as your #2.  The Valvo CCa look to be as expensive as some of the Siemens CCa.  
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> What color is the labeling white or Red or another color they made all kinds.
> I have some red labeled E88CC's (Holland) they sound great almost as good as the CCA's


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Red label, no box from Ebay seller.  $60 for the pair.  Likely used, not NOS.  I've been using the IEC Mullards and haven't thought about rolling in the Valvo's until I saw the Valvo CCa as your #2.  The Valvo CCa look to be as expensive as some of the Siemens CCa.




They sound awesome I have a pair that I should have listed in my list.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Red label, no box from Ebay seller.  $60 for the pair.  Likely used, not NOS.  I've been using the IEC Mullards and haven't thought about rolling in the Valvo's until I saw the Valvo CCa as your #2.  The Valvo CCa look to be as expensive as some of the Siemens CCa.




Yeah I have spent so much money on tubes man Im done now I have a backup pair of E88CC mullards that I stole from a guy for like 50.00 and another set of siemens & Halse with the O getter's coming in then I am now done.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





rope said:


> If HK wants to try the RCA's, I'd be willing to mail them, if he like them, and wants to keep them, he can send me what he thinks they're worth.  If not, send them back.


 
  AAAARRRGGGHHH!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I just bought 2 matched sets from Vacuumtubes.net at $6 per tube.
   
  I would have been happy to take you up on your offer.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> AAAARRRGGGHHH!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The RCA's are nice airy tubes they are nice toy


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> The RCA's are nice airy tubes they are nice toy


 
  That's what I figured.  My tubes of choice right now are the Mullard ECC88/6DJ8s.  I am really enjoying the sound (and I have back-ups).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> That's what I figured.  My tubes of choice right now are the Mullard ECC88/6DJ8s.  I am really enjoying the sound (and I have back-ups).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah they are one of my favorites.


----------



## Rope

The RCA's are respectable, although I prefer the GE's


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





rope said:


> The RCA's are respectable, although I prefer the GE's


 
  I have some GE's and I do like them.  I just heard so many good things about the RCA's that I wanted some to compare with the others...and the fact it seemed I could get any kind of 6BZ7 but the RCA's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Just curiosity more than anything.  Plus, they're still cheap compared to other tubes.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have some GE's and I do like them.  I just heard so many good things about the RCA's that I wanted some to compare with the others...and the fact it seemed I could get any kind of 6BZ7 but the RCA's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I did the same, had the GE's, liked um, and then that Scary dude kept hollering about the RCA black plates.  Well, couldn't leave good enough alone, and the rest is history.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> I did the same, had the GE's, liked um, and then that Scary dude kept hollering about the RCA black plates.  Well, couldn't leave good enough alone, and the rest is history.




hahahaha no it was Jamato8 hollering about the blackplates I just followed him I have a pair here Im going to put in my set of tubes to sell.


----------



## HK_sends

Ahh, so we are all Lemmings of a sort...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Ahh, so we are all Lemmings of a sort...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




hahahaha


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Ahh, so we are all Lemmings of a sort...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not me, not anymore.  Next time Scary dude starts ranting about tubes, I'm running in the opposite direction.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Not me, not anymore.  Next time Scary dude starts ranting about tubes, I'm running in the opposite direction.




hahahahah No more ranting Im happy with my CCa Siemens & Halske as my primary tubes Im almost done just one more set of O getter Siemens & Halske and the backup Mullard E88CC's and Im done finally..


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> hahahahah No more ranting Im happy with my CCa Siemens & Halske as my primary tubes Im almost done just one more set of O getter Siemens & Halske and the backup Mullard E88CC's and Im done finally..


 
  I think it's the "just one more set" that does us in...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I think it's the "just one more set" that does us in...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




so true


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> hahahahah No more ranting Im happy with my CCa Siemens & Halske as my primary tubes Im almost done just one more set of O getter Siemens & Halske and the backup Mullard E88CC's and Im done finally..


 

 I'm still in the hunt for a backup matched pair of Mullard 6DJ8 IEC's, then it's off to see the Wizard of OZ.  See iffin he'll give me a set of HiFiman HE-500's.


----------



## WNBC

Listened to the red-labelled Valvo E88CC w/ gold pins and they are good.  More air than say the Mullard 6DJ8s but I prefer the Mullards which may have a bit more texture and punch in the mids and lows.  I can't tell which flavor of red label Valvo I have because the date is rubbed off on one and the other says "7L6" so possibly Dec 16 1961.  On the top of the other tube are the letters "6K".  Both are O-getters.  
  
  Won these on Ebay and listening to them now.  Wasn't looking for more tubes but sometimes the mouse clicks on "buy now" on its own.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> What color is the labeling white or Red or another color they made all kinds.
> I have some red labeled E88CC's (Holland) they sound great almost as good as the CCA's


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Listened to the red-labelled Valvo E88CC w/ gold pins and they are good.  More air than say the Mullard 6DJ8s but I prefer the Mullards which may have a bit more texture and punch in the mids and lows.  I can't tell which flavor of red label Valvo I have because the date is rubbed off on one and the other says "7L6" so possibly Dec 16 1961.  On the top of the other tube are the letters "6K".  Both are O-getters.
> 
> Won these on Ebay and listening to them now.  Wasn't looking for more tubes but sometimes the mouse clicks on "buy now" on its own.




More the merrier hahaha I have Tupperware container filled with tubes soon will be sale day here on the thread Im going to do a bundle see if anyone wants it maybe a new user to the thread..


----------



## ZorgDK

WNBC, more air you say. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I think I would use the same description about the Brimars. I'm curious, what cans do you use the most with the Lyr - The LCD-2 or HE-4? And do you notice that the same tubes sound equally good on both cans?
   
  I have to say that I've had the best listening sessions with the HE-6 with the Brimar tubes. Multiple times I've had a big grin on my face and thought "this sounds just right" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Man, I've had a lot of fun the Lyr.
   
  MrScary, I hope for your sake that you can sell some of your tubes bundled, otherwise you'll spend the rest of the year  going to the post office lol.


----------



## WNBC

Pretty much LCD-2 all the time but I think I may break out the HE-4 this weekend.  I was contemplating selling the HE-4 so I have kept them in the box for the past month.  I'll break them out but then I may want to keep them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> WNBC, more air you say. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I think I would use the same description about the Brimars. I'm curious, what cans do you use the most with the Lyr - The LCD-2 or HE-4? And do you notice that the same tubes sound equally good on both cans?
> 
> I have to say that I've had the best listening sessions with the HE-6 with the Brimar tubes. Multiple times I've had a big grin on my face and thought "this sounds just right"
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

zorgdk said:


> WNBC, more air you say. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I think I would use the same description about the Brimars. I'm curious, what cans do you use the most with the Lyr - The LCD-2 or HE-4? And do you notice that the same tubes sound equally good on both cans?
> 
> I have to say that I've had the best listening sessions with the HE-6 with the Brimar tubes. Multiple times I've had a big grin on my face and thought "this sounds just right"
> 
> ...




hahahah well if I can't sell them as a bundle I will use them in and build some strange stand for the Lyr and elevate it for the coolness factor hahahah
actually I really don't care if I sell them or not. never know what other amp will come out that will use them.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Listened to the red-labelled Valvo E88CC w/ gold pins and they are good.  More air than say the Mullard 6DJ8s but I prefer the Mullards which may have a bit more texture and punch in the mids and lows.  I can't tell which flavor of red label Valvo I have because the date is rubbed off on one and the other says "7L6" so possibly Dec 16 1961.  On the top of the other tube are the letters "6K".  Both are O-getters.
> 
> Won these on Ebay and listening to them now.  Wasn't looking for more tubes but sometimes the mouse clicks on "buy now" on its own.


 


 Don't you just hate those pesky mice?  No conscience, or regard for a mans financial well being.  It's as if they have a mind of their own.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Don't you just hate those pesky mice?  No conscience, or regard for a mans financial well being.  It's as if they have a mind of their own.




Yes I do I looked at my paypal expenditures for the last 3 months and was like holy schiit


----------



## MrScary

Well I got in my tubes I have been after forever CCa Siemens & Halske grey plate O getters.

All I can say is the journey has been worth it they are truly the best tubes I have ever heard in the Lyr. They have a sonic Holography to them that is amazing.
I will redo my favorite tube list later today.


----------



## obazavil

Yeah... I want to read it


----------



## MrScary

*Scarys list of the Top 5 and take it for what its worth opinion of tubes to try*

1. CCa Siemens & Halske grey plate O Getter -- Very rare, Very expensive 400.00 +
2. CCa Siemens & Halske A Frames --rare, expensive 220.00 +
2. Valvo CCA E88CC 1966-- rare expensive 180.00 +
3. Mullard E88CC 1966-- Can get them from Tubemonger for 120.00
4 Brimar 2492's 60's -- somewhat rare prices can be anywhere between 60.00 and 120.00
5. Valvo Red Label E88CC -- rare around 120.00

3,4,5 are just about a tie


*My recommendation for those that have tried the JJ's and the GE's from Schiit is to realize your budget and stick with it*. These recommendations are just my opinion on rolling many tubes
there are many tubes that I have omitted from this list as they did not either live up to the performance expected or were a bad price performance tube.

*My recommendations for new Lyr users are as follows*
1. Mullard E88CC 120.00 Great sound, Airy full bass beautiful mids, warm
2. Brimar 2492's 60.00 -120.00 Great bass good mids good treble
3. Mullard IEC's around 80-100 Great bass great mids good treble
4. GE 6BZ7 20.00 from Schiit your best bet for the GE's
5. RCA 6BZ7, Sylvania 6BZ7, Great bang for the buck only a couple dollars for each tube via ebay


----------



## obazavil

Thanks for the list MrScary 
   
  I will save for someday get the #1 in your list


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the update!  I will put out my list maybe at the end of the month which will be more of the middle of the road tubes, nothing more expensive than your #3.  
   
  Where do the Cryoset 6N23P fit in the scheme of things?  Maybe 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10.
   
  In terms of expense, I guess going straight to the top tube would have saved you a lot of research and listening time but rolling one or two pairs of tubes isn't much of a rolling experience at all.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> *Scarys list of the Top 5 and take it for what its worth opinion of tubes to try*
> 
> 1. CCa Siemens & Halske grey plate O Getter -- Very rare, Very expensive 400.00 +
> 2. CCa Siemens & Halske A Frames --rare, expensive 220.00 +
> ...


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Thanks for the update!  I will put out my list maybe at the end of the month which will be more of the middle of the road tubes, nothing more expensive than your #3.
> 
> Where do the Cryoset 6N23P fit in the scheme of things?  Maybe 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10.
> 
> In terms of expense, I guess going straight to the top tube would have saved you a lot of research and listening time but rolling one or two pairs of tubes isn't much of a rolling experience at all.




I didn't add in the Cryoset 6N23P's they would have been #6 on the list of tubes for people to try in fact that reminds me I need to build my bundle of tubes for a deal that one will not believe..


----------



## MrScary

*Updated list *
*Scarys list of the Top 5 and take it for what its worth opinion of tubes to try*

1. CCa Siemens & Halske grey plate O Getter -- Very rare, Very expensive 400.00 +
2. CCa Siemens & Halske A Frames --rare, expensive 220.00 +
2. Valvo CCA E88CC 1966-- rare expensive 180.00 +
3. Mullard E88CC 1966-- Can get them from Tubemonger for 120.00
4 Brimar 2492's 60's -- somewhat rare prices can be anywhere between 60.00 and 120.00
5. Valvo Red Label E88CC -- rare around 120.00

3,4,5 are just about a tie


*My recommendation for those that have tried the JJ's and the GE's from Schiit is to realize your budget and stick with it*. These recommendations are just my opinion on rolling many tubes
there are many tubes that I have omitted from this list as they did not either live up to the performance expected or were a bad price performance tube.

*My recommendations for new Lyr users are as follows*
1. Mullard E88CC 120.00 Great sound, Airy full bass beautiful mids, warm
2. Brimar 2492's 60.00 -120.00 Great bass good mids good treble
3. Mullard IEC's around 80-100 Great bass great mids good treble
4. GE 6BZ7 20.00 from Schiit your best bet for the GE's
5. RCA 6BZ7, Sylvania 6BZ7, Great bang for the buck only a couple dollars for each tube via ebay
6. Cryoset 6N23P's
7. 6N1p's 70's or older


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> *Updated list *
> *Scarys list of the Top 5 and take it for what its worth opinion of tubes to try*
> 
> 1. CCa Siemens & Halske grey plate O Getter -- Very rare, Very expensive 400.00 +
> ...


 
   
  Excellent list!  This will be a handy guide for those new to the Lyr and Tube Rolling.


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> *Scarys list of the Top 5 and take it for what its worth opinion of tubes to try*
> 
> 3. Mullard E88CC 1966-- Can get them from Tubemonger for 120.00


 

 I am able to obtain both NOS and used Mullards at the local shop. The used ones are half the price of the NOS. Would there be any reason to buy only new tubes if I would rather stick to a lower budget?


----------



## MrScary

tkteo said:


> I am able to obtain both NOS and used Mullards at the local shop. The used ones are half the price of the NOS. Would there be any reason to buy only new tubes if I would rather stick to a lower budget?




If you want to get used there is no prob with that just make sure that they have tested the tubes and hopefully matched them


----------



## tkteo

The used Mullards have been tested, according to the shop owner. The boxes have stickers with numbers on them. Some kinds of measurements. The shop owner said that he would try his best to match pairs with numbers that are as close to one another as possible.
   
  I was going to ask him whether lower or higher numbers are better, if that makes any sense at all?


----------



## MrScary

tkteo said:


> The used Mullards have been tested, according to the shop owner. The boxes have stickers with numbers on them. Some kinds of measurements. The shop owner said that he would try his best to match pairs with numbers that are as close to one another as possible.
> 
> I was going to ask him whether lower or higher numbers are better, if that makes any sense at all?




Those should be fine if not ask him if you can return them? Sounds like a good deal if you have a local shop


----------



## zhunter

Omg... you spent over $1k+ in tube rolling for just a $450 amp... unbelievable man, you're really the man!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So... finally you came up with the list, could you do some A/B comparisons with some dudes from $1k+ amp club ?


----------



## MrScary

*Updated list 2*

*Scarys list of the Top 5 and take it for what its worth opinion of tubes to try*

 1. CCa Siemens & Halske grey plate O Getter -- Very rare, Very expensive 400.00 +
 2. CCa Siemens & Halske A Frames --rare, expensive 220.00 +
 2. Valvo CCA E88CC 1966-- rare expensive 180.00 +
 3. Mullard E88CC 1966-- Can get them from Tubemonger for 120.00
 4 Brimar 2492's 60's -- somewhat rare prices can be anywhere between 60.00 and 120.00
 5. Valvo Red Label E88CC -- rare around 120.00

 3,4,5 are just about a tie


* My recommendation for those that have tried the JJ's and the GE's from Schiit is to realize your budget and stick with it*. These recommendations are just my opinion on rolling many tubes
 there are many tubes that I have omitted from this list as they did not either live up to the performance expected or were a bad price performance tube.

*  My recommendations for new Lyr users are as follows*
 1. Mullard E88CC 120.00  Great sound, Airy full bass beautiful mids, warm
 2. Brimar 2492's 60.00 -120.00 Great bass good mids good treble
 3. Mullard IEC's around 80-100 Great bass great mids good treble
 4. GE 6BZ7  20.00 from Schiit your best bet for the GE's
 5. RCA 6BZ7, Sylvania 6BZ7, Great bang for the buck only a couple dollars for each tube via ebay
  6. National Mullard/ tooling japanese tubes -- 60.00 Tube monger
 7. Cryoset 6N23P's --  80.00 from Cryoset
 8. 6N1p's 70's or older -- 20.00 -40.00 ebay or preferably a tube trader


----------



## WNBC

Did you ever get a chance to try the Amperex Bugle Boys?  That's probably some of the last of the high-end ECC88/6DJ8 tubes that you haven't compared to say the Siemens or Valvo.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> *Updated list 2*
> 
> *Scarys list of the Top 5 and take it for what its worth opinion of tubes to try*
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Did you ever get a chance to try the Amperex Bugle Boys?  That's probably some of the last of the high-end ECC88/6DJ8 tubes that you haven't compared to say the Siemens or Valvo.




 No I will leave that one for you Im done rolling for the Lyr. I have found my tubes that I will rotate as I feel the itch if anyone has a set they want me to compare against the others I will pay the shipping to and fro


----------



## Misterrogers

Ha! Good for you MrScary. That's what it takes; you have to draw a hard line with this rolling thing to fight back the itch. I'm not quite there yet, but I'm getting close. I suspect there's a pair of Siemens Cca's in my future, the I'll hold.


----------



## sacd lover

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Did you ever get a chance to try the Amperex Bugle Boys?  That's probably some of the last of the high-end ECC88/6DJ8 tubes that you haven't compared to say the Siemens or Valvo.


 


 Dont pay these crazy prices for NOS 6DJ8/6922s. Try the RCA or Sylvania 6GU7 for $5 or a 6CG7 from Sylvania , RCA or Sylvania. The 6GU7 or 6CG7 handle more voltage .... are much more rugged and long lasting, have better triode matching and sound as good or better than any 6DJ8/6922 I have ever heard. The only penalty is these tubes have a lower mu ..... which is actually an advantage if you have lots of gain.
   
  Radio Electric Supply ....
   
   

 E.015 *G.E. 6CG7/6FQ7 NOS G.E. tube* *$28.00* PRE.016 *RCA 6CG7/6FQ7 RCA with top getter* *$30.00* PRE.017 *RCA 6CG7/6FQ7 RCA side getter with clear top* *$40.00* PRE.018 *Raytheon 6CG7/6FQ7 Nice NOS Raytheon US manufacture tubes* *$40.00* PRE.019 *Sylvania 6CG7/6FQ7 GE NOS Sylvania tubes from the 50's and 60's* *$25.00 *
   
   
  I currently use the RCA 6GU7 in place of 6N1P in my KT88SE Integrated with much, much improved sound. I actually prefer the 6GU7 to the 6CG7. I think the 6GU7 is smoother
   
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j124/6bx7gt/Dads20camera20229.jpg


----------



## MrScary

sacd lover said:


> Dont pay these crazy prices for NOS 6DJ8/6922s. Try the RCA or Sylvania 6GU7 for $5 or a 6CG7 from Sylvania , RCA or Sylvania. The 6GU7 or 6CG7 handle more voltage .... are much more rugged and long lasting, have better triode matching and sound as good or better than any 6DJ8/6922 I have ever heard. The only penalty is these tubes have a lower mu ..... which is actually an advantage if you have lots of gain.
> 
> Radio Electric Supply ....
> 
> ...




As nice as the tubes are they cannot compare to the Vintage tubes in the Lyr if you are talking about a different amp then this doesnt belong here.
The cheaper tubes were already placed in their respective places. Putting this graph doesn't help the Lyr owners at all it has already been stated about
the cheaper alternatives.In your world you may settle for a different level of quality than the Lyr owners to. Different voltage tubes will make the Lyr run extremely hot which is one thing we do not want to do..


----------



## MrScary

*Updated list 2*

*Scarys list of the Top 5 and take it for what its worth opinion of tubes to try*

1. CCa Siemens & Halske grey plate O Getter -- Very rare, Very expensive 400.00 +
2. CCa Siemens & Halske A Frames --rare, expensive 220.00 +
2. Valvo CCA E88CC 1966-- rare expensive 180.00 +
3. Mullard E88CC 1966-- Can get them from Tubemonger for 120.00
4 Brimar 2492's 60's -- somewhat rare prices can be anywhere between 60.00 and 120.00
5. Valvo Red Label E88CC -- rare around 120.00

3,4,5 are just about a tie


* My recommendation for those that have tried the JJ's and the GE's from Schiit is to realize your budget and stick with it*. These recommendations are just my opinion on rolling many tubes
there are many tubes that I have omitted from this list as they did not either live up to the performance expected or were a bad price performance tube.

*  My recommendations for new Lyr users are as follows*
1. Mullard E88CC 120.00  Great sound, Airy full bass beautiful mids, warm
2. Brimar 2492's 60.00 -120.00 Great bass good mids good treble
3. Mullard IEC's around 80-100 Great bass great mids good treble
4. GE 6BZ7  20.00 from Schiit your best bet for the GE's
5. RCA 6BZ7, Sylvania 6BZ7, Great bang for the buck only a couple dollars for each tube via ebay
6. National Mullard/ tooling japanese tubes -- 60.00 Tube monger
7. Cryoset 6N23P's --  80.00 from Cryoset
8. 6N1p's 70's or older -- 20.00 -40.00 ebay or preferably a tube trader


----------



## Benjamin6264

Still haven't recieved my Valvo E88CC's. Can't wait to try them out!
   
  Got 1 from eBay and 1 from AudiogoN. Both NOS, but no idea if they'll be matched.
   
  What do you guys do with unmatched tubes? Do you adjust them by deliberately burning the best one for a while? Or do you just EQ the sound so that the volume is the same in both ears?


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> Still haven't recieved my Valvo E88CC's. Can't wait to try them out!
> 
> Got 1 from eBay and 1 from AudiogoN. Both NOS, but no idea if they'll be matched.
> 
> What do you guys do with unmatched tubes? Do you adjust them by deliberately burning the best one for a while? Or do you just EQ the sound so that the volume is the same in both ears?




Usually tubes are never matched 100% my latest tubes the CCa Siemens and Halske 0 Getters were NOS and had good numbers but were not exactly the same., you won't be able to tell the difference as long as they are relatively close in numbers.
Getting each tube from a different place is unusual but, my first pair of Mullards have different dates years 1966 and 1967 and they sound great.. I wouldn't worry about it just as long as they don't hum or crackle.
you will love the Valvo E88C they have a bit of tr-dimensional sound to them. Let us know how it turns out..


----------



## Benjamin6264

Alright. My biggest fear was that they would be nowhere near matched, but that's not that likely considering they're both NOS.
   
  I'll post my impressions as soon as I get a chance to try them out. 
   
  Also have some Mullards CV2492's coming in, a pair of gold pins Brimar E88CC's as well as a bunch of gold pins Brimar ECC88's (don't know much about these last ones, but got them for not too much). I'll review those too


----------



## sacd lover

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> As nice as the tubes are they cannot compare to the Vintage tubes in the Lyr if you are talking about a different amp then this doesnt belong here.
> The cheaper tubes were already placed in their respective places. Putting this graph doesn't help the Lyr owners at all it has already been stated about
> the cheaper alternatives.In your world you may settle for a different level of quality than the Lyr owners to. Different voltage tubes will make the Lyr run extremely hot which is one thing we do not want to do..


----------



## sacd lover

I am talking about the tube and how do you know they dont compare .... you have used them??? I expect the best sound quality and I am not sure the Lyr would even meet my expectations compared to the various headamps I have owned over the years. I was offering you a suggestion for a tube I know to  out perform much higher regarded tubes from my own personal experiences. The tube is ouststanding but unknown and overlooked hence an exceptional value. Next, what are you takling about different voltage tubes make the Lyr amp run hot .... the amp sets the voltage not the tube. If you are talking bias current 6CG7s bias around 9ma vs 15ma for the 6922/ 6DJ8?? Once in the amp the tube can either handle the voltage/ plate dissipation or it cant. For $5 you cant give these a try?
   
   Concerning 6BZ7s, they have nowhere near the sound quality of the 6GU7 for an inexpensive dual triode IMO. I have used numerous 6BZ7s in Woo amps and experimented in some preamps and with Singlepower amps .... underwhelming was my opinion. In my example, the KT88SE Integrated, you are replacing a 6N1P just like in the Lyr. The 6DJ8 is to far off 6N1P specs and sounds bad unless you change the plate resistor value in the KT88SE. The KT88SE amp was just used as an example where I replaced a 6N1P in an amp designed with typical 6N1P parameters with a NOS 6GU7 with superb results. Regardless of the amp you can not go to far outside the parameters of the tube or they dont work properly = sound bad .... or at worst die. The 6BZ7s and 6BQ7A dont sound nearly as good in this amp, which was designed to use a 6N1P .... as a 6GU7 .... and I bet if you were willing to give them a try you may discover the same holds true with the Lyr .... which was the whole point of my post. Cost has no direct correlation with performance; expensive tubes are rare tubes not necessarily the best sounding tubes.
   
  My post was offered as a tube suggestion that flies under the radar for both sound quality and value and hopefully someone gives them a try. Maybe they wont work but in every amp I have that has used a 6N1P the 6GU7 has had better sound quality than any of the alternatives I see mentioned.
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> As nice as the tubes are they cannot compare to the Vintage tubes in the Lyr if you are talking about a different amp then this doesnt belong here.
> The cheaper tubes were already placed in their respective places. Putting this graph doesn't help the Lyr owners at all it has already been stated about
> the cheaper alternatives.In your world you may settle for a different level of quality than the Lyr owners to. Different voltage tubes will make the Lyr run extremely hot which is one thing we do not want to do..


----------



## WNBC

At $5 a pop I am willing to try the 6GU7 once, twice, etc.
 Thanks for the suggestions and now you must buy a Lyr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





sacd lover said:


> I am talking about the tube and how do you know they dont compare .... you have used them??? I expect the best sound quality and I am not sure the Lyr would even meet my expectations compared to the various headamps I have owned over the years. I was offering you a suggestion for a tube I know to  out perform much higher regarded tubes from my own personal experiences. The tube is ouststanding but unknown and overlooked hence an exceptional value. Next, what are you takling about different voltage tubes make the Lyr amp run hot .... the amp sets the voltage not the tube. If you are talking bias current 6CG7s bias around 9ma vs 15ma for the 6922/ 6DJ8?? Once in the amp the tube can either handle the voltage/ plate dissipation or it cant. For $5 you cant give these a try?
> 
> .The closest western equivalent to the 6N1P is the well known 6BQ7A. The closest western equivalent to the 6N1P is the well known 6BQ7A.  The closest western equivalent to the 6N1P is the well known 6BQ7tT  I have used this tube to replace 6N1Ps and the sound quality is at most slightly better than the 6N1P; give me a 6CG7/6GU7 anyday. I am no stranger to 6922s/ 6DJ8/ 7DJ8s having used them in A. Illusions preamps and Singlepower and Woo headamps.  I have used these to repalce 6N1Ps and the sound quality just want there IMO  give me a 6CG7/6GU7 ANYDAY i AM NO STRANGER TO THE
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Well, since we don't need a Urinary Olympic Competition between MrScary and sacd lover, I sent an e-mail to Jason and asked if the Lyr would be ok with the 6GU7/6CG7 tubes.
  I don't want any magic smoke escaping from _my_ amp.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sacd lover

I like what I see of the Valhalla better.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> At $5 a pop I am willing to try the 6GU7 once, twice, etc.
> Thanks for the suggestions and now you must buy a Lyr


----------



## sacd lover

Good idea. I will be interested to see what he says.

  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Well, since we don't need a Urinary Olympic Competition between MrScary and sacd lover, I sent an e-mail to Jason and asked if the Lyr would be ok with the 6GU7/6CG7 tubes.
> I don't want any magic smoke escaping from _my_ amp.
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sacd lover said:


> I like what I see of the Valhalla better.


 
  I do appreciate your suggestion which is why I asked the Schiit Guys.  If there isn't a problem, I will be trying some out.
  I have the LCD-2s and find the Lyr an excellent match (for me).  I have heard that others prefer the Valhalla with various cans.
   
  Plus, Lyr is so much easier to spell...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sacd lover

I use wood cup modded Alessandro MS-1s. Hybrid amps look really good on paper and some of them like the Stacker 2 or Millet hybrids are really good with the MS-1s. I have tried tons of them. But, I still like my all tube amps best.
   
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j124/6bx7gt/076.jpg
  .... Stacker 2 hybrid/ Sound Quest SQ-84. The Stacker was the highest level of hybrid. The SQ-84 was a 6v6 speaker amp with a really good sounding headphone output and just happens to be in the pic.
   

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j124/6bx7gt/049.jpg
  .... 19J6 Millet Hybrid with PIO caps stepped attenuator.
  
   
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j124/6bx7gt/050.jpg
  .... SOHA 2. Not so hot looking but sounded great with everything Senn or Grado.
  
   
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j124/6bx7gt/051.jpg
  .... Millet Max Hybrid
  
   
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j124/6bx7gt/052.jpg
   .... Millet Max upgraded version .... really good with high impedance Senns???
   

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j124/6bx7gt/053.jpg
  ..... Millet Max. I loved messing with these.
  
   
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j124/6bx7gt/041-1.jpg .... 
   .....My trusty modded MS-1s with my own pad mod.
   
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I do appreciate your suggestion which is why I asked the Schiit Guys.  If there isn't a problem, I will be trying some out.
> I have the LCD-2s and find the Lyr an excellent match (for me).  I have heard that others prefer the Valhalla with various cans.
> 
> Plus, Lyr is so much easier to spell...
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Cool Pictures!
   
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

sacd lover said:


> Good idea. I will be interested to see what he says.




My problem was that you dismissed the vintage tubes immediately. You don't own a Lyr so you have not tried them. I will give your tube idea a shot and give honest feedback. peace


----------



## sacd lover

Yes peace!

 I dont know that I dismissed the tubes period and I apologize if that is what you thought because thats not what I was trying to do. But, if I bought your top 5 I would have around $1000 tied up in 5 pairs of tubes for a $450 amp. For me, I have had expensive 6DJ8/6922s display the bad habit of getting noisy or having one triode go weak on one side after a few months of use. I dont trust the tube. If I were to dimiss them I would dismiss them for price first and reliability second. I know they can sound good, just not always for long. I truly do hope you dont have my experience with the tube.
   
  I see more sense in starting tube experiments with inexpensive tubes and then if you dont like the sound or they develope problems you dont have a coronary. Hence the 6GU7 recommendation. I do think the 6BZ7/6BQ7A is another good choice.  Do I think the 6GU7 will sound better than say your top 3? Given the amp is designed around a 6922 the 6GU7 may not have enough gain. But the tube has had enough gain replacing  6N1Ps in atleast two amps I have. If there is enough gain the tube is just excellent. The 6CG7 does have slightly more gain so I listed them even though they are not cheap anymore. I would try the 6BZ7 first.
   
  You are right I dont own a Lyr. I have not heard the amp. But I have owned a multitude of hybrid amps and I dont think the Lyr would be in the same league with say an expensive Stacker 2 hybrid that includes a tube rectified power supply. I had one custom built specifically to take advantage of superior, cost effective NOS tubes like the 12SN7/ 14N7/ 6-12FQ7. In this case having inexpensive tube options lets you spend your money on a better amp and still be able to buy lots of tubes. I have less money tied up in a much more expensive amp and three lifetimes worth of tubes than I would with a Lyr and your top 5.
   
   I cant say you are wrong with a Lyr and those super expensive tubes though .... I guess our philosophies are just different. I hope you continue to enjoy your amp and tube rolling.  For those starving students and family men on this board with not a lot of disposable income a superior cheap tube is a treat .... and those are usually the group I like to post for.
   
  Back to 6GU7s .... RCA, GE, Sylvania and Raytheon  (Japan) made them. There was lots of rebranding with this tube so ask for construction matched pairs. I have had RCAs in Sylvania boxes and especially Sylvania tubes in RCA boxes. Some Raytheons show up in RCA boxes too. RCAs like most RCAs are the warmest and tonally rich. The Sylvania and Raytheon are leaner faster sounding tubes. GEs are somewhere between the RCA and Sylvania/ Raytheons. The Raytheons are very open and airy and probably a little more detailed and analytical than I prefer but very resolving if that is what you like. I am not predisposed to the GEs but they dont sound bad.
   
  I use three 6GU7s in my MPX3, a 6GU7 for gain driving 5687s in a PPX3 and sometimes for gain in an Extreme .... although I like the Amperex 7062 better sometimes with recordings having low levels because the Extreme's 6AS7s need lots of gain to drive them. I use 6GU7s for phase splitters in a 6BQ5 amp, for gain in another 6BQ5 amp and for gain in my two SE power amps. I find uses for the 6GU7 everywhere.
   
  So, I hope the manufacturer feels the tube will work and that the you find the tube as enjoyable as I do. If they dont .... do not use them they know their product best. I have a pair of 6BQ7A/ 6BZ7/6BS8 (the box had them all listed) that I have upstairs somewhere that were the best I listened to by a large margin in my old Woo 3. I saved them they were so good and I will try to figure out what those were and post a description. I need to find those and try them in my KT88SE.
   
   
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> My problem was that you dismissed the vintage tubes immediately. You don't own a Lyr so you have not tried them. I will give your tube idea a shot and give honest feedback. peace


----------



## jamato8

To me, an amp is a starting point, when tube. I don't care if it costs 100 dollars or 10,000. The tube is a part of the circuit and if that tube costs 10 times the cost of the amp so what, it is a circuit and just means that the base price of the amp was with XYZ tube. That another tube ups the cost is of no consequence to my thinking about the initial cost of the amp, though my wallet does wince but that is the case when I buy a 200 f2 Canon lens, a Lietz lens or the M9. I can buy a very good digital body for 2400 and if I want to do some birding I might add a 12,000 dollar lens. That has no bearing on the initial cost of the camera body or concept what should have or not have been, spent and relevance of the cost. Now with regards to performance, if the amp or camera is properly designed, it will only benefit, if the sound or image capture, meets the desired end.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Official word on 6CG7/6GU7: sure, they'll plug in and bias (Lyr is biased by a constant current source, so as long as the pinout is fine, it'll work), but I suspect the operating point won't be optimal. If the amp was designed for the 6CG7/6GU7, I'd personally run a significantly higher rail, since those tubes are essentially 6SN7s in a 9-pin envelope.


----------



## HK_sends

Well, I got an answer from Jason, but since he posted it here I don't need to post anything other than:
  ...what he said. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks Jason!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

Good points.  Ah, I remember when I would put the legendary Canon 200mm f/1.8 lens on digital rebel body.  Probably the one lens I wished I kept over the years.  The end result was still amazing even though the lens was 10-20X the cost of the camera itself.  Use whatever tools that will get you to the final point whether it be music or photography.
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> To me, an amp is a starting point, when tube. I don't care if it costs 100 dollars or 10,000. The tube is a part of the circuit and if that tube costs 10 times the cost of the amp so what, it is a circuit and just means that the base price of the amp was with XYZ tube. That another tube ups the cost is of no consequence to my thinking about the initial cost of the amp, though my wallet does wince but that is the case when I buy a 200 f2 Canon lens, a Lietz lens or the M9. I can buy a very good digital body for 2400 and if I want to do some birding I might add a 12,000 dollar lens. That has no bearing on the initial cost of the camera body or concept what should have or not have been, spent and relevance of the cost. Now with regards to performance, if the amp or camera is properly designed, it will only benefit, if the sound or image capture, meets the desired end.


----------



## MrScary

sacd lover said:


> Yes peace!
> 
> I dont know that I dismissed the tubes period and I apologize if that is what you thought because thats not what I was trying to do. But, if I bought your top 5 I would have around $1000 tied up in 5 pairs of tubes for a $450 amp. For me, I have had expensive 6DJ8/6922s display the bad habit of getting noisy or having one triode go weak on one side after a few months of use. I dont trust the tube. If I were to dimiss them I would dismiss them for price first and reliability second. I know they can sound good, just not always for long. I truly do hope you dont have my experience with the tube.
> 
> ...




I ordered a pair of the RCA's when I get them I will compare them honestly against the tubes I have spent months testing in the Lyr


----------



## obazavil

*rubbing hands*
   
  Let's wait for the comparison


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Actually, I'm kind of interested now too. I'll dig up some of Mike's 6CG7s. I expect it's gonna sound pretty fat and "tubey," but we'll see.


----------



## MrScary

jason stoddard said:


> Actually, I'm kind of interested now too. I'll dig up some of Mike's 6CG7s. I expect it's gonna sound pretty fat and "tubey," but we'll see.




Jason,

Let us know how it sounds. appreciate it I will not be getting mine for a week or so.


Thanks


----------



## WNBC

Just when you thought you were done rolling......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I ordered a pair of the RCA's when I get them I will compare them honestly against the tubes I have spent months testing in the Lyr


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Just when you thought you were done rolling......


 

 LOL


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Just when you thought you were done rolling......




Yeah you were right its a sickness man.. YOu guys may need to get a fund going for some psychotherapy for me. hahaha 
Just wait until Schiit comes out with their new amp I will be all over that probably worse than the Lyr.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Jason,
> 
> Let us know how it sounds. appreciate it I will not be getting mine for a week or so.
> 
> ...


 
   
  We may not beat you by much--Mike recently moved and we have do dig through a bunch of boxes in his garage. But I'll report as soon as I can!


----------



## MrScary

jason stoddard said:


> We may not beat you by much--Mike recently moved and we have do dig through a bunch of boxes in his garage. But I'll report as soon as I can!




Cool thanks Jason


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Yeah you were right its a sickness man.. YOu guys may need to get a fund going for some psychotherapy for me. hahaha
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sorry Scary Dude, that ship has sailed.  Go ahead, beat that dead horse in the nose till it bleeds again.  Don't ever try heroine.


----------



## jamato8

I liked the 6FQ7, which is like the 6SN7 as is the 12FQ7 but in 12.6 volt filament. I have always found the 6CG7 a little to warm form my taste and a little bloated. I would guess that since it is liked that in the right circuit it would perform well but I am not sure in the Lyr at the operating points as I would want to run it at higher voltages to get it to perk up.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> I liked the 6FQ7, which is like the 6SN7 as is the 12FQ7 but in 12.6 volt filament. I have always found the 6CG7 a little to warm form my taste and a little bloated. I would guess that since it is liked that in the right circuit it would perform well but I am not sure in the Lyr at the operating points as I would want to run it at higher voltages to get it to perk up.




Yeah thats what I figured that it will not be operating at peak points.. I got a pair cheap so will see how it sounds with the Lyr.


----------



## Kremer930

Another pair of tubes for MrScary's mega tube bundle sale...to be advised!!!


----------



## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> Another pair of tubes for MrScary's mega tube bundle sale...to be advised!!!




hahahaha yep Im sure there not going to be winners Im betting on it


----------



## jamato8

Maybe they will surprise. It is always fun to have a variety. I have many of the 6GU7 and the like with some nice old NOS. I got them but never really used them much. I had a preamp I could swap out tubes on and a dac I built that I could change all the operating points, which made a good test vehicle.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Maybe they will surprise. It is always fun to have a variety. I have many of the 6GU7 and the like with some nice old NOS. I got them but never really used them much. I had a preamp I could swap out tubes on and a dac I built that I could change all the operating points, which made a good test vehicle.




YOu may be right Jamato8 they may sound good will find out..


----------



## xxhaxx

Kinda amazed that I actually composed a list of what tube I want to get before I even received my amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  ... Even though this is my first "tube" amp


----------



## milosolo

There is some really great info in this thread! Thank you for your contributions. I was surprised when I read the new Headfonia review of the three Schiit amps where Mike ranks these in the exact opposite order I expected; 1) Asgard, 2) Valhalla, 3) Lyr. This interests me because I currently have a Lyr on order and now wonder if I shouldn't be ordering one of the other two instead.
   
  The HF review said that he listened to the stock JJ tubes which aren't considered all that great. I know that tubes can make a significant difference in the sound of the amp. I have the HD650 'phone now and really like the LCD-2 if/when I upgrade/add later. My amp is coming with the GE 6BZ7 and I don't mind adding another set of mid-fi tubes. Should I hold the course with the Lyr or switch to one of the others?
   
  I hope my question isn't taking this thread off-topic.


----------



## MrScary

milosolo said:


> There is some really great info in this thread! Thank you for your contributions. I was surprised when I read the new Headfonia review of the three Schiit amps where Mike ranks these in the exact opposite order I expected; 1) Asgard, 2) Valhalla, 3) Lyr. This interests me because I currently have a Lyr on order and now wonder if I shouldn't be ordering one of the other two instead.
> 
> The HF review said that he listened to the stock JJ tubes which aren't considered all that great. I know that tubes can make a significant difference in the sound of the amp. I have the HD650 'phone now and really like the LCD-2 if/when I upgrade/add later. My amp is coming with the GE 6BZ7 and I don't mind adding another set of mid-fi tubes. Should I hold the course with the Lyr or switch to one of the others?
> 
> I hope my question isn't taking this thread off-topic.




Well the Lyr with the right tubes in it sounds fantastic for the price + upgrade tubes.. Let me get back to you on what my recommendation for tubes for ya would be I primarily use my LCD-2's but I have some HD650's I will roll a few tubes and let you know PM me so I don't forget.


----------



## milosolo

Excellent dude. Thank you!


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





milosolo said:


> There is some really great info in this thread! Thank you for your contributions. I was surprised when I read the new Headfonia review of the three Schiit amps where Mike ranks these in the exact opposite order I expected; 1) Asgard, 2) Valhalla, 3) Lyr. This interests me because I currently have a Lyr on order and now wonder if I shouldn't be ordering one of the other two instead.
> 
> The HF review said that he listened to the stock JJ tubes which aren't considered all that great. I know that tubes can make a significant difference in the sound of the amp. I have the HD650 'phone now and really like the LCD-2 if/when I upgrade/add later. My amp is coming with the GE 6BZ7 and I don't mind adding another set of mid-fi tubes. Should I hold the course with the Lyr or switch to one of the others?
> 
> I hope my question isn't taking this thread off-topic.


 
   
  I really like the Amperex Orange Globes (Holland, A-frames) in the Lyr with the HD650. It's balanced and airy, with sparkly but smooth treble, strong but well controlled bass and lush mids. Soundstage is really wide and imaging is fantastic. I'm surprised more people haven't sung its praises here with the Lyr.
  
  From what I've read, fakes for the generally well regarded Amperex tubes (Bugle Boys, Orange Globes etc) are prevalent. Be wary of the cheap listings on ebay.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I really like the Amperex orange globes (Holland, A-frames) in the Lyr with the HD650. It's balanced and airy, with sparkly but smooth treble, strong but well controlled bass and lush mids. Soundstage is really wide and imaging is fantastic. I'm surprised more people haven't sung its praises here with the Lyr.


 
  I would have tried them but I have many in storage in NOS and won't buy something I have, well that isn't true as I did buy some Siemens but they are cheaper. Anyway, I look forward to trying to dig mine out of storage some day. I look forward to reading further impressions of the tube.


----------



## jamato8

Double P. The big P.


----------



## olor1n

The only instance I've read an impression of the Lyr with Orange Globes is in the FS section, where a member states they're his favourite tubes with the Lyr. *Joe's Tube Lore* describes what I hear from the Orange Globes and Bugle Boys perfectly.


----------



## zhunter

^
  Another nice source of tubes comparisons and appreciations, thanks man!


----------



## tkteo

Bought a pair of Mullard E88CC today.
   
  Plugged them into the Lyr. One of them glows noticably brighter than the other. Is this okay? I don't hear any problems with the sound from both channels but I am just concerned.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Bought a pair of Mullard E88CC today.
> 
> Plugged them into the Lyr. One of them glows noticably brighter than the other. Is this okay? I don't hear any problems with the sound from both channels but I am just concerned.


 


  Did you try looking to the tubes with an angle? Sometimes the glowing is hidden by the grey top of the tube.
   
  Other than that, perhaps they're not matched. Do you notice any volume difference between the two channels?


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





benjamin6264 said:


> Did you try looking to the tubes with an angle? Sometimes the glowing is hidden by the grey top of the tube.
> 
> Other than that, perhaps they're not matched. Do you notice any volume difference between the two channels?


 

 Yup, I am looking at the tubes from angle without the grey top getting in my line of sight. One a bright glow, the other kinda like a dying spark.
   
  According to the shop owner the tubes he selected for me were already matched as close as he could. There are measurements written on each the boxes that the tubes came in and from what I can tell the numbers are close enough.
   
  The shop owner said something about the numbers referring to anode current.
   
  As for volume difference, I do not notice any difference.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Ah well, as long as they sound good, the most important is covered


----------



## Benjamin6264

You could try switching them to be sure that it's really the tube and not the amp circuit.


----------



## tkteo

Yes as long as they work fine.
   
  I will try switching them after the amp cools down.
   
  I also use a pair of Tesla E88CC gold pins but I have not noticed any other Head-Fi-ers using them.
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/Tesla_NOT_JJ_Like_New_1962_72_E88CC_Gold_Ro_nov_p/916.htm


----------



## MrScary

tkteo said:


> Yes as long as they work fine.
> 
> I will try switching them after the amp cools down.
> 
> ...




The shear amount of tubes is daunting. I know in my review I used tubeworld's voting as a guide to testing and purchasing some tubes. Never will there be a chart with every tube on it wish there were


----------



## MrScary

tkteo said:


> Bought a pair of Mullard E88CC today.
> 
> Plugged them into the Lyr. One of them glows noticably brighter than the other. Is this okay? I don't hear any problems with the sound from both channels but I am just concerned.




If one of the tubes has a low glow you may want to ask the shop owner to give you another tube. He surely did not match them and for the testing of the tubes most of it is bolongna anyway until you get it into your amp you never know what ya goonna get.


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> If one of the tubes has a low glow you may want to ask the shop owner to give you another tube. He surely did not match them and for the testing of the tubes most of it is bolongna anyway until you get it into your amp you never know what ya goonna get.


 

 Okie. May I ask: what possible problems would dull glow on a tube potentially signify?


----------



## Kremer930

olor1n said:


> I really like the Amperex Orange Globes (Holland, A-frames) in the Lyr with the HD650. It's balanced and airy, with sparkly but smooth treble, strong but well controlled bass and lush mids. Soundstage is really wide and imaging is fantastic. I'm surprised more people haven't sung its praises here with the Lyr.
> 
> From what I've read, fakes for the generally well regarded Amperex tubes (Bugle Boys, Orange Globes etc) are prevalent. Be wary of the cheap listings on ebay.




I have gold lions ecc88, 6n1p, 6bz7, and my amperex Mullard orange globe ecc88 are my clear favourites. I think it is the sparkly highs and out of head imaging that make them my favourites.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Bought a pair of Mullard E88CC today.
> 
> Plugged them into the Lyr. One of them glows noticably brighter than the other. Is this okay? I don't hear any problems with the sound from both channels but I am just concerned.


 
  It doesn't mean anything. Those are the heaters, the filament. Sometimes one is set a little higher out of the plate than the other one but it means nothing.


----------



## HK_sends

I finally got a set of RCA 6DJ8s and got a chance to listen to them with my Revision 2 LCD-2 headphones.  I must say I am impressed!  They will stand as my backups if my Mullard ECC88s ever go bad.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I finally got a set of RCA 6DJ8s and got a chance to listen to them with my Revision 2 LCD-2 headphones.  I must say I am impressed!  They will stand as my backups if my Mullard ECC88s ever go bad.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...




So they don't sound as good as the Mullard E88CC's? well I guess that is another tube in your collection


----------



## zhunter

Im trying to hunt a matched pair of Amperex 6922 PQ, white label, made in US based on this experience and comparison , and another pair of valvo cca e88cc is coming also, this will be interesting to see which one is the winner to my taste.


----------



## MrScary

zhunter said:


> Im trying to hunt a matched pair of Amperex 6922 PQ, white label, made in US based on this experience and comparison , and another pair of valvo cca e88cc is coming also, this will be interesting to see which one is the winner to my taste.




Which Valvo's there are many variants? white label, red label, yellow label?


----------



## MrScary

zhunter said:


> Im trying to hunt a matched pair of Amperex 6922 PQ, white label, made in US based on this experience and comparison , and another pair of valvo cca e88cc is coming also, this will be interesting to see which one is the winner to my taste.




I had white labels I didn't care for them and they were one of the first tube sets that I sold. I hope your experience is different


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> So they don't sound as good as the Mullard E88CC's? well I guess that is another tube in your collection


 
  Oh yeah...now I have at least 150 years worth of backup tubes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Oh yeah...now I have at least 150 years worth of backup tubes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




hahahaha yeah same here if not 250 years


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> hahahaha yeah same here if not 250 years


 
  Maybe Jason will give us an extended warranty on our Lyr's...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Maybe Jason will give us an extended warranty on our Lyr's...
> 
> -HK sends




Yeah hahaha until retirement age. hahaha


----------



## zhunter

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I had white labels I didn't care for them and they were one of the first tube sets that I sold. I hope your experience is different


 


  White label, gold pins as it shown on ebay pictures. Hope they are the same as yours.


----------



## MrScary

zhunter said:


> White label, gold pins as it shown on ebay pictures. Hope they are the same as yours.




Can you send me the link to them on ebay so I can take a look?


----------



## zhunter

Here it is: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170659319009&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT


----------



## MrScary

zhunter said:


> Here it is: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170659319009&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT




I have only tried the Valvo E88CC red labels if the white labels sound anything like it then you have a winner.
The Red Label E88CC's have a semi dimensional sound that is enticing. Let us know how they sound.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I have only tried the Valvo E88CC red labels if the white labels sound anything like it then you have a winner.
> The Red Label E88CC's have a semi dimensional sound that is enticing. Let us know how they sound.


 
  MrVeryScary, have you tried the 6CG7 yet?


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> MrVeryScary, have you tried the 6CG7 yet?




NO Jamato8 I purchased a pair of RCA's from a dealer here in the states should have them within a week to test


----------



## Rope

I can't hear you, I can't see your tube posts, I can't hear you...Nah, Nah, Nah....Yada, Yada, Yada!


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> I can't hear you, I can't see your tube posts, I can't hear you...Nah, Nah, Nah....Yada, Yada, Yada!




Well rope has swallowed a tube. Dude!!! we told you not to use your tongue to get the tubes out of the Lyr.


----------



## USAudio

I see on the Schiit Lyr page, the default tube selected is the GE 6BZ7, with the E88CC tube as the other option.
   
  Do the Lyr's given specifications change with the 6BZ7 tube at all?  Or do both available tubes produce the same specifications?


----------



## WNBC

[size=medium]I think the 6BZ7 may be a little hotter but I'm not sure the Lyr's specifications change.  Roll 'em, a lot of people like them.
   
*6BZ7*
  Heater Voltage ................................ 6.3 V
 Heater Current ................................ 0.4 A
  Plate Voltage ................................. 250 V
 Plate Dissipation ............................. 2 W
   
*E88CC/6922*
  Heater Voltage ................................ 6.3 V
 Heater Current ................................ 0.3 A
  Plate Voltage ................................. 220 V
 Plate Dissipation ............................. 1.5 W​[/size]


  Quote: 





usaudio said:


> I see on the Schiit Lyr page, the default tube selected is the GE 6BZ7, with the E88CC tube as the other option.
> Do the Lyr's given specifications change with the 6BZ7 tube at all?  Or do both available tubes produce the same specifications?


----------



## MrScary

usaudio said:


> I see on the Schiit Lyr page, the default tube selected is the GE 6BZ7, with the E88CC tube as the other option.
> 
> Do the Lyr's given specifications change with the 6BZ7 tube at all?  Or do both available tubes produce the same specifications?




The Lyr will run the GE 6BZ7 at its required voltage thats why it runs a little hotter but within range as Schiit has given their approval. the 6922 tubes run cooler that's why they give them a theoretical longer life span of 5,000 to 10,000 houirs MTBF.
The GE is a nice sounding tube , as are the RCA and Sylvania.


----------



## sacd lover

The 6BZ7 will run at the same voltage as the other tubes; the amp sets the voltage. Moreover, most hybrids run the plate voltage quite low = 100 volts or lower. The tube specs quoted above were maximums and rarely do designers run the tubes at anywhere near 100% dissiapation. If the 6BZ7 was receiving the full 250 volt plate maximum the 6922 and especially the 6DJ8 would not last long. The ECC88/6DJ8 has a max plate voltage of 130 volts and are typically used in circuits with around 90 volts on the plate. If the 6BZ7 runs hotter the reason is not from higher plate voltage.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> The Lyr will run the GE 6BZ7 at its required voltage thats why it runs a little hotter but within range as Schiit has given their approval. the 6922 tubes run cooler that's why they give them a theoretical longer life span of 5,000 to 10,000 houirs MTBF.
> The GE is a nice sounding tube , as are the RCA and Sylvania.


----------



## zhunter

Well, today is my lucky day, I've won a matched pair of Siemens & Halske CCa, Grey plate for only $271 shipped to Australia. The same pair of this seller was sold for almost $400. This auction ended at noon of Aus time, so probably US night time, hence no US snipers to compete with haha.
   
  Think Im done with rolling tubes for now, thanks MrScary about your suggested list, and have a look at my winning auction and see whether its the same as yours or not: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160616275400&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
   
  Cheers,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Alex


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





zhunter said:


> Well, today is my lucky day, I've won a matched pair of Siemens & Halske CCa, Grey plate for only $271 shipped to Australia. The same pair of this seller was sold for almost $400. This auction ended at noon of Aus time, so probably US night time, hence no US snipers to compete with haha.
> 
> Think Im done with rolling tubes for now, thanks MrScary about your suggested list, and have a look at my winning auction and see whether its the same as yours or not: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160616275400&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> ...


 

  
  Congrats on your purchase Alex. However, be sure to check that they're not fake. 95.5% feedback could be a sign that they're actually re-printed tubes.
   
  I hope that you did get a real pair, though!  Just be sure to send them back if you realise that they don't sound well or look different to other pictures you can find on the Web.


----------



## zhunter

Thanks for advices, actually I'm just new to tube rollings, so yeah, will try to compare the sound quality to my current tubes, will take a few zooming shoots with a good camera for you guys to examine when they arrive. The cheapest Triad 6BZ7 is my most favorite tubes so far, wider soundstage, warmer vocal, a little more forwarded engaging, spark treble but not fatiguing, and overall a more punchy, deeper, and powerful bass! Surprisingly it costs only $3 for a matched pair, much better than stocked JJ and Saratov 70' 6N23Ps


----------



## MrScary

zhunter said:


> Well, today is my lucky day, I've won a matched pair of Siemens & Halske CCa, Grey plate for only $271 shipped to Australia. The same pair of this seller was sold for almost $400. This auction ended at noon of Aus time, so probably US night time, hence no US snipers to compete with haha.
> 
> Think Im done with rolling tubes for now, thanks MrScary about your suggested list, and have a look at my winning auction and see whether its the same as yours or not: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160616275400&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> ...




You will love them man they sound freaking incredible
I have bought some tubes before from besttubes they look like the real thing the right box etc..


----------



## Benjamin6264

Recieved my first Valvo E88CC today.
   
  All I can say is : What a torture this is! D:
   
  All I can do is plug it, listen with one ear and think "Oh, it must be amazing when you plug in the second tube".
   
  In all seriousness, I can't wait for the second tube to arrive. From what I heard with the first, it could be my new favorite pair.


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey Benjamin - since I'm enjoying a pair of your Amperex A-Frame Orange Globes, you'll have to share how the Valvo's compare.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Sure thing! I'll write a short review of my impressions as soon as I get the second tube. 
   
  It's from New Zealand, so I guess it's normal that it takes a bit longer. 
   
  I'm lucky to have bought them both for not too much : I see pairs going for $250+ on eBay.


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> Sure thing! I'll write a short review of my impressions as soon as I get the second tube.
> 
> It's from New Zealand, so I guess it's normal that it takes a bit longer.
> 
> I'm lucky to have bought them both for not too much : I see pairs going for $250+ on eBay.




yeah the valvo line really sounds nice im sure you will like them


----------



## Benjamin6264

I got my second Valvo today! 
   
  There doesn't seem to be any problem with the matching. Perhaps a bit less volume on the left side, but not enough to bother me.
   
  REVIEW :
   
  First thing I can say is : Wow, this is airy! I really like the lightness of the sound that comes from those tubes. I used the HiFiMAN HE-6, which is already quite airy, so I am guessing that they would make an even better combination with headphones that one finds too "In-Your-Face" (Denon maybe?)
   
  Everything seems to be super balanced. The bass, mids and highs all seem to be taking their respective place, without any emphasis on either.
   
  The soundstage is a big plus. I've had experienced with tubes that did nothing to help the HE-6's average soundstage, but these do great.
   
  I'll have to A/B them with my other tubes to determine if they're my new favourite, but if they aren't, they're pretty darn close. 
   
  Hell, they're not even burned in as far as I know. Can't wait too see how their full potential unfolds in the next days.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Eye candy for your entertainment :


----------



## ZorgDK

Benjamin, I agree airy tubes can do wonders for the HE-6's soundstage and sense of detail, the Brimar's does it for me. If you think it's too bright it can help to lower the 7khz to 14khz band a bit in an EQ. I don't use an EQ myself though.
   
  Excellent photos.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Thank you very much.
   
  I happen to have a few Brimars coming up next. One Brimar ECC88 came along the second Valvo. I am expecting 5 gold pin ECC88's and 2 gold pin E88CC's in the not-too-distant future.


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> I got my second Valvo today!
> 
> There doesn't seem to be any problem with the matching. Perhaps a bit less volume on the left side, but not enough to bother me.
> 
> ...




Yeah the Valvo's have a airy 3d stage to them. Glad you like them are they NOS tubes? if so they will open up even more


----------



## Benjamin6264

They are both supposed to be NOS/unused.


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> They are both supposed to be NOS/unused.




Cool glad you got good tubes


----------



## ZorgDK

[size=medium]NOS and unused isn't that the same 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  I think I'd like to try some tubes with more low-mid end texture, something less airy than the Brimar's. What does the tube guru's say - Should I go for some Mullard E88CC or maybe something else?
   
   ​[/size]


----------



## Benjamin6264

Well, they can be considered the same, but I tend to think that a tube can have been used for a few hours/days by someone and still be considered NOS.
   
  I have a pair of Mullard CV2492, and that would be a very good choice.


----------



## MrScary

Well I got in my RCA 6GU7's NOS no noise when I put them in
here is my review of them.

1. They sound like a 6N1P with a strange midrange.
2. Guitars sound like bass's peculiar sound 
3. They sound thin on some songs and fat on others
4. These are not tubes I would suggest for anyone with a Lyr they may sound great in other amps but they are a fail in the Lyr.

Not to be included on my list of tubes as a cheap replacement for any of the other tubes in fact I don't know what to do with them maybe make a stand out of them for the Lyr.
Im sure Jason will give a more technical review of the tubes when they dig them out of Mike's stash.


My final words FAIL!


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well I got in my RCA 6GU7's NOS no noise when I put them
> here is my review of them.
> 
> 1. They sound like a 6N1P with a strange midrange.
> ...


 

    :^0


----------



## MrScary

zorgdk said:


> [size=medium]NOS and unused isn't that the same
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmmm what tubes have you tried so far?


----------



## ZorgDK

Thanks for impressions MrScary, I had been wondering how those 6GU7's were.
  
  Quote: 





benjamin6264 said:


> Well, they can be considered the same, but I tend to think that a tube can have been used for a few hours/days by someone and still be considered NOS.
> 
> I have a pair of Mullard CV2492, and that would be a very good choice.


 

 Ok you win. 
   
  Thanks for the suggestion.
   

  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Hmmm what tubes have you tried so far?


 
   
  JJ's, 6N1P, 6N23P, GE 6BZ7, Brimar CV2492


----------



## MrScary

zorgdk said:


> Thanks for impressions MrScary, I had been wondering how those 6GU7's were.
> 
> 
> Ok you win.
> ...




The 6GU7's are awful in the Lyr not an impression a warning..


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> The 6GU7's are awful in the Lyr not an impression a warning..




Tube that is not airy is going to be a challenge most of my tubes throw some air let me roll some tonight and get back to ya..


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sacd lover said:


> The 6BZ7 will run at the same voltage as the other tubes; the amp sets the voltage. Moreover, most hybrids run the plate voltage quite low = 100 volts or lower. The tube specs quoted above were maximums and rarely do designers run the tubes at anywhere near 100% dissiapation. If the 6BZ7 was receiving the full 250 volt plate maximum the 6922 and especially the 6DJ8 would not last long. The ECC88/6DJ8 has a max plate voltage of 130 volts and are typically used in circuits with around 90 volts on the plate. If the 6BZ7 runs hotter the reason is not from higher plate voltage.


 
  If I remember correctly, the Lyr runs 200V rails.


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> Well, they can be considered the same, but I tend to think that a tube can have been used for a few hours/days by someone and still be considered NOS.
> 
> I have a pair of Mullard CV2492, and that would be a very good choice.




hmmm maybe I am going to roll some tubes in a bit


----------



## Rope

I found some IECs, I found some IECs....neener, neener, neener!


----------



## WNBC

Local or Evil Bay?  
  
  Quote: 





rope said:


> I found some IECs, I found some IECs....neener, neener, neener!


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Local or Evil Bay?


 

 I may be stupid, but I'm not falling for the bait.  Top secret, I could tell you, but i'd have to kill you.


----------



## WNBC

All is good as long as you don't try to get a backup pair for your backup pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





rope said:


> I may be stupid, but I'm not falling for the bait.  Top secret, I could tell you, but i'd have to kill you.


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Tube that is not airy is going to be a challenge most of my tubes throw some air let me roll some tonight and get back to ya..


 

 Thanks dude, basically I'm looking to tame some of the HE-6 brightness.
   
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> The 6GU7's are awful in the Lyr not an impression a warning..


 

 Why don¨t you tell us how you really feel about those tubes...?


----------



## MrScary

zorgdk said:


> Thanks dude, basically I'm looking to tame some of the HE-6 brightness.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don¨t you tell us how you really feel about those tubes...?




I didn't get to rolling last night but I'm going to run the E88CC Mullards this morning and see if they will fit the bill..


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I didn't get to rolling last night but I'm going to run the E88CC Mullards this morning and see if they will fit the bill..


 

 Cool, no rush.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> All is good as long as you don't try to get a backup pair for your backup pair


 

 You may have me confused with the Scary One.  He's the only one I know of who purchases a backup to backup the backups.  Also known in the tube world as a tube prOn star.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> You may have me confused with the Scary One.  He's the only one I know of who purchases a backup to backup the backups.  Also known in the tube world as a tube prOn star.




hahahaha too funny man


----------



## obazavil

lol
   
  Quote: 





rope said:


> You may have me confused with the Scary One.  He's the only one I know of who purchases a backup to backup the backups.  Also known in the tube world as a tube prOn star.


----------



## ZorgDK

scary, call up the admins and have your title changed to tubeus supremus or lord of the tubes.


----------



## WNBC

MrScary starring in "3 Tubes and a Baby"
  
  Quote: 





rope said:


> You may have me confused with the Scary One.  He's the only one I know of who purchases a backup to backup the backups.  Also known in the tube world as a tube prOn star.


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> MrScary starring in "3 Tubes and a Baby"




hahahaha
Yeah I have a huge Tupperware container full of tubes now what to do with all these things I was thinking of making some christmas lights out of them hahahaha


----------



## Misterrogers

You were going to make them available to us for a cheap, remember?


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> You were going to make them available to us for a cheap, remember?




Yeah Im still working on which ones I want to keep will take some time before I have a lot of tubes sale..


----------



## MrScary

zorgdk said:


> Thanks dude, basically I'm looking to tame some of the HE-6 brightness.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don¨t you tell us how you really feel about those tubes...?




I rolled the GE grey glass and they cut a bit of the high frequencies they are worth a try.
the Mullard E88CC are another possibility since I have the LCD-2's and you have the HE6 its hard for me to make a direct comparison but the GE's should do it.. they are tricky to find sometimes


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> scary, call up the admins and have your title changed to tubeus supremus or lord of the tubes.


 

 Wouldn't "Tube HO" be more succinct and to the point
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Okay, here's the official word on 6CG7 and 6GU7, based on Mike's stash of NOS JAN Phillips and NOS RCAs, respectively. Cliff's Notes version: Mr. Scary gets the Golden Tube Ear award. He's spot-on in subjective impression of the 6CG7, and the 6GU7 is actually worse, flabby and flatulent. 
   
  If you take a look at the tube curves on the datasheet, this isn't surprising. At the Lyr's cathode voltage, these two tubes are operating in a relatively nonlinear area. Measured distortion is about 1-2% at 5V out, versus Lyr's typical 0.05%-0.1% with 6DJ8/6922/E88CC types. They're also much lower gain. Compare gains:
   
  E88CC = 10
  6BZ7 = 12
  6N1P = 13
  6CG7 = 7
  6GU7 = 6
   
  The low gain is also indicative of operating low on the curve. The overall sound is slurred, fat, and odd--the tube table radio of yore. 
   
  Bottom line: for Lyr, stick to 6DJ8s and close relatives. The 6BZ7 is actually an early relative of the 6DJ8, with higher anode voltage capability, but still good linearity at lower voltages. 
   
  Personally, if we were going to use the 6CG7/6GU7s in an amp, we'd bypass them completely and use 6SN7s, since the better geometry makes a better tube--and we'd run it with a 400Vish rail, to get it in a linear operating area. 
   
  On the other hand, the taller 6CG7s and 6GU7s were easier to pull out of the chassis, so it's not all bad!


----------



## HK_sends

Thanks, Jason!  You saved me a some money...now I MUST give it you for the Bifrost! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

jason stoddard said:


> Okay, here's the official word on 6CG7 and 6GU7, based on Mike's stash of NOS JAN Phillips and NOS RCAs, respectively. Cliff's Notes version: Mr. Scary gets the Golden Tube Ear award. He's spot-on in subjective impression of the 6CG7, and the 6GU7 is actually worse, flabby and flatulent.
> 
> If you take a look at the tube curves on the datasheet, this isn't surprising. At the Lyr's cathode voltage, these two tubes are operating in a relatively nonlinear area. Measured distortion is about 1-2% at 5V out, versus Lyr's typical 0.05%-0.1% with 6DJ8/6922/E88CC types. They're also much lower gain. Compare gains:
> 
> ...




Thanks Jason


----------



## ZorgDK

Thanks for the info, Jason.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I rolled the GE grey glass and they cut a bit of the high frequencies they are worth a try.
> the Mullard E88CC are another possibility since I have the LCD-2's and you have the HE6 its hard for me to make a direct comparison but the GE's should do it.. they are tricky to find sometimes


 

 Thanks, appreciated.


----------



## sacd lover

If the voltage is to low to get the 6GU7 linear these subs might work ....
   
http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6BC8 
   
http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6BS8  
   
  This one is a really nice tube but almost impossible to find ....
   
http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6FW8 

  
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Okay, here's the official word on 6CG7 and 6GU7, based on Mike's stash of NOS JAN Phillips and NOS RCAs, respectively. Cliff's Notes version: Mr. Scary gets the Golden Tube Ear award. He's spot-on in subjective impression of the 6CG7, and the 6GU7 is actually worse, flabby and flatulent.
> 
> If you take a look at the tube curves on the datasheet, this isn't surprising. At the Lyr's cathode voltage, these two tubes are operating in a relatively nonlinear area. Measured distortion is about 1-2% at 5V out, versus Lyr's typical 0.05%-0.1% with 6DJ8/6922/E88CC types. They're also much lower gain. Compare gains:
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

sacd lover said:


> If the voltage is to low to get the 6GU7 linear these subs might work ....
> 
> http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6BC8
> 
> ...




Thanks for the suggestion.. tried the 6GU7 but didn't sound good like many of my tubes


----------



## jamato8

SACD Lover is just trying to help out. Without knowing the actual operating points on the amp, all one can do is make suggestions of possibilities. I suggested the 6BZ7, which Lyr now uses, because of past knowledge learned years ago and knowing they will "normally" work in the same circuit. As to the 6N1P, the 6N1P would sound better with much more voltage (they like to be driven hard in my experience and hold up well). So we try and experiment and hopefully, have fun. Once you know the actual working points of the Lyr, looking at the tube curves will give you a good clue as to how it will work.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> SACD Lover is just trying to help out. Without knowing the actual operating points on the amp, all one can do is make suggestions of possibilities. I suggested the 6BZ7, which Lyr now uses,


 


  Agreed  Is OK to suggest things... sometimes they even work


----------



## mhamel

Agreed - let's not be harsh with people who make suggestions.
   
  The purpose of the thread is to suggest and try.  Some things will work great, some not-so-well, and a "hey this might work" could possibly turn into a gem.  Given the amount of money we all spend on tubes, a cheap try-out here and there is well worth it if for nothing else than knowing it's a no-go.
   
      -Mike


----------



## Rope

I've been sneakin' around in the tall grass, so I'll come clean.  I rolled in a pair of 6GU7s last Friday, and ya know what?  They plain sucked the big cheese weener!


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> I've been sneakin' around in the tall grass, so I'll come clean.  I rolled in a pair of 6GU7s last Friday, and ya know what?  They plain sucked the big cheese weener!




Yeah they are pretty standing outside the case of the Lyr but when ya turn it on you get a demon of its own wit designed to make guitars sound like bass's.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Yeah they are pretty standing outside the case of the Lyr but when ya turn it on you get a demon of its own wit designed to make guitars sound like bass's.


 

 Have to admit, they're easy to roll in and out.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Yeah they are pretty standing outside the case of the Lyr but when ya turn it on you get a demon of its own wit designed to make guitars sound like bass's.


 


  Hey!  I love bass!... hmm.... 2x bass... sounds tempting


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Hey!  *I love bass!*... hmm.... 2x bass... sounds tempting


 


  Lyr + LCD-2 and be done with it.


----------



## MrScary

obazavil said:


> Hey!  I love bass!... hmm.... 2x bass... sounds tempting




no not the kind of Bass you think with these odd tubes like a midrange bass bloated tuna boat..


----------



## obazavil

Hahahah just kidding 
   
  not a basshead, just fun the tought of having guitars+bass = 2x bass 
   
  Yeah.... I'm wondering what can to buy next.... HE-500 or LCD-2 rev 2
   
  But that will wait... a lot...
   
  Upgrading from Fiio E7/E9 to Lyr/Bifrost will empty my wallet for a while.
   
  As a sidenote, I hope by next week to have my Lyr at home + Mullards 
   
  Let's see how it sounds with K702/DT990


----------



## MrScary

obazavil said:


> Hahahah just kidding
> 
> not a basshead, just fun the tought of having guitars+bass = 2x bass
> 
> ...




Should sound nice if not another tube roll is in the future


----------



## MrScary

obazavil said:


> Hahahah just kidding
> 
> not a basshead, just fun the tought of having guitars+bass = 2x bass
> 
> ...




What DAC are you using?


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> What DAC are you using?


 


   
  Right now, Fiio E7 is my only DAC, docked to the E9.
   
  So my chain is E7 -> E9 -> DT990/600
   
  Until Bifrost is out, I will use Fiio E7 LOD -> Lyr -> DT990/600


----------



## HK_sends

I like the new avatar MrScary...not ostentatious at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I like the new avatar MrScary...not ostentatious at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Big words hurt scary's mind hahaha
I find it quite a Grandiose skull

http://skullmania.stumbleupon.com
 My collection


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Big words hurt scary's mind hahaha
> I find it quite a Grandiose skull
> 
> http://skullmania.stumbleupon.com
> My collection


 
  So, I should not use "antidisestablishmentarianism" in a sentence, then?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> So, I should not use "antidisestablishmentarianism" in a sentence, then?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...




hahaha sure you should


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> hahaha sure you should


 
  Believe me, if the conversation ever calls for it, I'll use it.  Until then... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## sling5s

Sorry if someone already addressed this but:
   
    

  How are the LCD-2 with Lyr with stock tubes compared to 6922 Genalex Gold Lions? Do the 6922 Genalex Gold Lions make that much difference?

  I will probably use it with stock tubes for awhile until I can upgrade.  

  And where can I purchased these 6922 Genalex Gold Lions and how much do they cost?


----------



## MrScary

sling5s said:


> Sorry if someone already addressed this but:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




the Stock GE's sound better than the GL's the Gold lions are mid centric tubes. If you want to upgrade there are other options when the time comes let me know and I will give another rundown of all the tubes I have rolled.


----------



## nsk1

MrScary, did you try Philips SQ, Philips Miniwatt or Amperex Orange Globe?


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





nsk1 said:


> MrScary, did you try Philips SQ, Philips Miniwatt or Amperex Orange Globe?


 


 Don't encourage Scary, that's all he needs is excuse to purchase more tubes.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Hahahah just kidding
> 
> not a basshead, just fun the tought of having guitars+bass = 2x bass
> 
> ...


 
  Combined with the Lyr, you'll hear the 702s like you've never heard them before.  Add the Mullard 6DJ8 to the equation, and you'll wet yourself.


----------



## MrScary

nsk1 said:


> MrScary, did you try Philips SQ, Philips Miniwatt or Amperex Orange Globe?




Tried the Orange globes sold them the others I have not tried I stick with the polls on tube world


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





rope said:


> Combined with the Lyr, you'll hear the 702s like you've never heard them before.  Add the Mullard 6DJ8 to the equation, and you'll wet yourself.


 
   
  *rubbing hands*


----------



## MrScary

obazavil said:


> *rubbing hands*




Particularly the E88CC Mullard is the pic of the breed


----------



## Viper2005

Can someone suggest a tube to reduce brightness (roll off of treble is ok) and accentuate mids?
  Essentially I think my LCD-2 rev2's have too much brightness and the mids aren't as sweet as the older version.
  Was thinking of either Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8, Mullard CV2492, or Mullard IEX 6DJ8?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





viper2005 said:


> Can someone suggest a tube to reduce brightness (roll off of treble is ok) and accentuate mids?
> Essentially I think my LCD-2 rev2's have too much brightness and the mids aren't as sweet as the older version.
> Was thinking of either Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8, Mullard CV2492, or Mullard IEX 6DJ8?


 
  The 6DJ8 and ECC88 tubes do that for me.  E88CC tubes are a bit brighter, lighter on bass, but have super mids.
   
  My favorite tubes for the r.2 at the moment are RCA 6DJ8s and Mullard A-Frame ECC88s.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MayaTlab

Hello,
   
  I read that the Lyr can be grainier / dryer / rougher / less subtle than other amps with default tubes (the E88CC). If I buy a Rev.2 LCD-2, I'd try to improve as much as possible their abilities for classical music. That means trying to get the best soundstage out of them, the most liquid / less grainy sound possible, preserving as much micro-details and micro-dynamics as possible - in a way, trying to make them lean towards Stax headphones a little more than usual.
   
  Which tube, do you think, would help control the bass (tight, tuneful, textured, layered, but not bombastic), enlighten the mids (liquid, layered, with good instrument separation and soundstage, respect of micro-details and micro dynamics, good "see-through" ability), and make the trebles nicely extended, not agressive, not etched, but with a realistic shimmer / decay rendition and subtle ? In other word, a pair of tubes that are technically very potent, including trying to get the best soundstage possible out of the LCD-2, and with a subtle rendition (nothing stands out) ? Price doesn't matter much ($150 max ?), as the Lyr is already very competitive price-wise.
   
  I've read good things about the 6DJ8, but aren't they a little too warm for classical music and LCD-2 ?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mayatlab said:


> Hello,
> 
> I read that the Lyr can be grainier / dryer / rougher / less subtle than other amps with default tubes (the E88CC). If I buy a Rev.2 LCD-2, I'd try to improve as much as possible their abilities for classical music. That means trying to get the best soundstage out of them, the most liquid / less grainy sound possible, preserving as much micro-details and micro-dynamics as possible - in a way, trying to make them lean towards Stax headphones a little more than usual.
> 
> ...


 
  Perhaps, but not to me.  They will reduce the level of brightness which was what Viper2005 was looking for.  So far the tube I like the most (which to me, does what you are looking for) is the Mullard Brand ECC88 with an A-frame and dimpled disk getter.  MrScary probably has some excellent recommendations as well, but the Mullards are my favorite (within financial reason).
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230635495146&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_2060wt_1396
   
  The ECC88 has to come before the 6DJ8...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Viper2005

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> The 6DJ8 and ECC88 tubes do that for me.  E88CC tubes are a bit brighter, lighter on bass, but have super mids.
> 
> My favorite tubes for the r.2 at the moment are RCA 6DJ8s and Mullard A-Frame ECC88s.
> 
> ...


 

 I shall try some, thanks 
  I have ordered a few types of 6dj8's.. still looking for some mullard IEC 6dj8's which I hear are really good too.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





viper2005 said:


> I shall try some, thanks
> I have ordered a few types of 6dj8's.. still looking for some mullard IEC 6dj8's which I hear are really good too.


 
  If you find any of the Mullard IEC, save a couple for me, would you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

mayatlab said:


> Hello,
> 
> I read that the Lyr can be grainier / dryer / rougher / less subtle than other amps with default tubes (the E88CC). If I buy a Rev.2 LCD-2, I'd try to improve as much as possible their abilities for classical music. That means trying to get the best soundstage out of them, the most liquid / less grainy sound possible, preserving as much micro-details and micro-dynamics as possible - in a way, trying to make them lean towards Stax headphones a little more than usual.
> 
> ...




Reducing brightness and increasing sound stage is going to be a hard one your best bet is to get some Valvo E88CC's to get both sound stage and reduce brightness you will have to spend some money they are hard to find as are most of the best tubes. The Mullards as HK said will reduce the brightness but they are not sound stage kings.


----------



## WNBC

A pair sold on Ebay last night for about $115.  It was very tempting but I stayed away.  Figured one of you guys would be bidding on them.
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> If you find any of the Mullard IEC, save a couple for me, would you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





rope said:


> Combined with the Lyr, you'll hear the 702s like you've never heard them before.  Add the Mullard 6DJ8 to the equation, and you'll wet yourself.


 

 I like the combination of K702, Lyr with Mullard E88CC as well. Tried a pair of Sovtek 6N1P and was not impressed.
   
  There are Mullard CV2492s available at local store. But no Siemens Haskin, Amperex, Brimar or Valvo E88CC.
   
  Wonder if I should buy a pair of NOS Mullard CV2492 for safekeep if I can spare the cash?


----------



## MrScary

tkteo said:


> I like the combination of K702, Lyr with Mullard E88CC as well. Tried a pair of Sovtek 6N1P and was not impressed.
> 
> There are Mullard CV2492s available at local store. But no Siemens Haskin, Amperex, Brimar or Valvo E88CC.
> 
> Wonder if I should buy a pair of NOS Mullard CV2492 for safekeep if I can spare the cash?




well I buy tubes just to buy them but if you have heard the CV2492's then go for it.. I usually buy a backup pair of tubes for the ones I really am using that way in case one goes out I have a backup.. Something to think about


----------



## ZorgDK

For those searching, this dealer carries a couple of different Mullard 6DJ8, including IEC http://tctubes.com/search.aspx?find=mullard+ecc88


----------



## WNBC

You sold them out quickly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 They have single tubes available, just not matched which may be fine but more of a gamble...
http://tctubes.com/Mullard-6DJ8-ECC88-IEC-label.aspx
   
   
  Quote: 





zorgdk said:


>


----------



## MrScary

There are some Simens & Halske CCa's on ebay right now http://cgi.ebay.com/Matched-Pair-SIEMENS-CCa-same-code-near-NOS-E88CC-BOX-/260818483279?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb9fe384f
they are the chrome plate but sound the same as the grey plate a little expensive make them an offer if you want these fantastic tube set.


----------



## Misterrogers

How can you tell when they're Siemens & Halske vs. Siemens? These seem to be just Siemens.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> How can you tell when they're Siemens & Halske vs. Siemens? These seem to be just Siemens.




There simens and Rohre just means a later year they are CCa's late 60's eary 70's


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> There simens and Rohre just means a later year they are CCa's late 60's eary 70's




Siemens changed the name in the late 60's and changed from a grey plate to a silver plate
they sound the same as the grey plate aka Simens & Halske I have both..


----------



## Misterrogers

Right - as I understand it Rohre (or 'tube') ones were later than Siemens & Halske. Some are of the opinion that Siemens & Halske were better than Siemens Rohre. The ones labeled Siemens & Halske are definitely the hardest/rarest to find.
   
  Mike


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Right - as I understand it Rohre (or 'tube') ones were later than Siemens & Halske. Some are of the opinion that Siemens & Halske were better than Siemens Rohre. The ones labeled Siemens & Halske are definitely the hardest/rarest to find.
> 
> Mike




They sound the same


----------



## Rope

ECC88/E88CC/6DJ8/6922/E188CC Tube Types
   
  If you spend a little time reading, Brent Jessee does a good job of explaining the different variations, along with his personal rating of tubes from different groups.


----------



## HK_sends

Another way to tell is some of the Siemens & Halske  have a logo of a stylized "S" running though the middle of the letter "H".  At least, thats what the logo is on the ones I ordered and am waiting on.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Just snagged a set of Telefunken ECC88/6DJ8 tubes circa 1964...as old as me!![size=medium] [/size]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220814041019&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_661wt_1163
   
  I wonder how they'll sound?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Just snagged a set of Telefunken ECC88/6DJ8 tubes circa 1964...as old as me!![size=medium] [/size]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

_*"TELEFUNKEN, SIEMENS, VALVO, LORENZ, and other German made NOS:* These tubes are usually characterized by an impressive open "air" at the top end. The soundstage is large, even in mono applications these tubes have a great 3-D image. The midrange is ruler flat, and the bass is tight and accurate. These tubes have a fine sense of dynamics, and most are impressively quiet. These are not "warm" tubes, and to some ears their lack of midrange warmth may be heard as bright. I tend to think of them as accurate, and their clean, focused sonic image is astonishing. My personal favorites. The top types are as would be expected: the 7308/E188CC, the Cca, and the 6922/E88CC. The Cca is a very special 6922 made for the German government for telecommunications. They are excellent tubes, as good as any 7308. By the way, the 1970s versions of these brands are excellent as well, in spite of some trashing on "Some Guy's Tube Lore" and other web pages. Don't let anyone tell you what tubes you should like and what you should not like!"_


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





rope said:


> _*"TELEFUNKEN, SIEMENS, VALVO, LORENZ, and other German made NOS:* These tubes are usually characterized by an impressive open "air" at the top end. The soundstage is large, even in mono applications these tubes have a great 3-D image. The midrange is ruler flat, and the bass is tight and accurate. These tubes have a fine sense of dynamics, and most are impressively quiet. These are not "warm" tubes, and to some ears their lack of midrange warmth may be heard as bright. I tend to think of them as accurate, and their clean, focused sonic image is astonishing. My personal favorites. The top types are as would be expected: the 7308/E188CC, the Cca, and the 6922/E88CC. The Cca is a very special 6922 made for the German government for telecommunications. They are excellent tubes, as good as any 7308. By the way, the 1970s versions of these brands are excellent as well, in spite of some trashing on "Some Guy's Tube Lore" and other web pages. Don't let anyone tell you what tubes you should like and what you should not like!"_


 
  Actually, that's what convinced me to get them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

I got my first bad tube in today, an Amperex 6DJ8 Tube with Sylvania Logo.  I just hope it doesn't become a trend (right, MrScary? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  Left a message with the seller and waiting to see how it gets resolved.  It's too bad because the good one sounds very promising.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I got my first bad tube in today, an Amperex 6DJ8 Tube with Sylvania Logo.  I just hope it doesn't become a trend (right, MrScary?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Should have gotten the E88CC's Telefuken


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Should have gotten the E88CC's Telefuken


 
  I got the Telefunken ECC88s instead...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Should have gotten the E88CC's Telefuken


 


   


  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I got the Telefunken ECC88s instead...
> 
> -HK sends


 

 LMAO!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


rope said:


> LMAO!


 
  I'm confused... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Is that...bad?  I can actually detect a difference in ECC88 and E88CC tubes as well as 6DJ8 and 6BQ7A tubes.  The differences can be subtle but are apparent to me.  I prefer the sound of ECC88  and 6DJ8 tubes over the others...if they are the right brand.  I have definitely noticed it with Mullard and RCA tubes.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

My guess is word placement, there's a symmetry to the responses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  E88CC's Telefuken vs Telefunken ECC88s

  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> I'm confused...
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> My guess is word placement, there's a symmetry to the responses
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I guess I didn't look at it that way! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> I'm confused...
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm sure if you applied yourself to it, you could, often be able to detect sonic differences between different samples of the same tube.  That is the nature of an thermal emission device in the analog domain.  So you did well!  Good ear, good observation!
   
  Keep up the good work!


----------



## WNBC

Or because MrScary spelled it Telefuken or Tele-***-en, a new way to telecommute 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I guess I didn't look at it that way!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## kwkarth

Oay!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


wnbc said:


> Or because MrScary spelled it Telefuken or Tele-***-en, a new way to telecommute


 
  Whoa! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Missed that one completely! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

ECC88 is the European equivalent to 6DJ8, while the E88CC/E88CC01 is the European equivalent to the 6922.
   
  If you're standing in front of a porcelain vessel...Euro-pee'n distinguished from Telefuken.


----------



## HK_sends

LOL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends
   
  Quote: 





rope said:


> ECC88 is the European equivalent to 6DJ8, while the E88CC/E88CC01 is the European equivalent to the 6922.
> 
> If you're standing in front of a porcelain vessel...Euro-pee'n distinguished from Telefuken.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





rope said:


> ECC88 is the European equivalent to 6DJ8, while the E88CC/E88CC01 is the European equivalent to the 6922.
> 
> If you're standing in front of a porcelain vessel...Euro-pee'n distinguished from Telefuken.


 


  Ohhh....
   
  Didn't know that 
  *taking notes*


----------



## MrScary

Whatever works ))


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Whatever works ))


 


  Well... I bought the JJ, GE, Mullard and Valvo 
   
  Let's see how they sound when the Lyr arrives
   
  muahahahahhahaha
   
  I think I will stop here with tubes for a while, don't want to be like MrScary spending his car payment in tubes (or food... or electricity...)


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


obazavil said:


> Well... I bought the JJ, GE, Mullard and Valvo
> 
> Let's see how they sound when the Lyr arrives
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, I looked at how much I spent on ebay for tubes and *freaked*!  And I know I bought more from other places...
   
  I have far exceeded the cost of my Lyr. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yeah, I looked at how much I spent on ebay for tubes and *freaked*!  And I know I bought more from other places...
> 
> I have far exceeded the cost of my Lyr.
> 
> ...


 

 Ok... correction:
   
  I don't want to be like MrScary AND HK sends that will be severely punished for spending thousands on tubes 
   
  (and I MUST still save cash for GT5 fanatec wheel and/or Schiit Bifrost)


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yeah, I looked at how much I spent on ebay for tubes and *freaked*!  And I know I bought more from other places...
> 
> I have far exceeded the cost of my Lyr.
> 
> ...


 
  Scary junior!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





rope said:


> Scary junior!


 
  I'm just a "little scary"... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

The Europee'n, Telefuken bug just bit me hard.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Well... I bought the JJ, GE, Mullard and Valvo
> 
> Let's see how they sound when the Lyr arrives
> 
> ...


 



 The Valvo should take the show let us know your findings


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I'm just a "little scary"...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 you need new avatar to be scary hahahaha


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> you need new avatar to be scary hahahaha


 
  I don't know, if you were an adversary aircraft pilot and you had a couple of these breathing down your neck, that would be a "little scary". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

Hey HK, what was call your call sign when you were a pilot?
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I don't know, if you were an adversary aircraft pilot and you had a couple of these breathing down your neck, that would be a "little scary".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Hey HK, what was call your call sign when you were a pilot?


 
  I wasn't a pilot, I just worked closely with pilots.  My call sign is "HK" because of my last name "*H*ouse*K*necht".  I walked into a Air Force Special Operations Command unit for my first day of work and the Commander (who had combat hours on AC-130 Gunships) looked at my name and said, "I can't say that, you're HK."  I took it to mean "Heckler & Koch"...favorite weapons amongst special ops folks.
   
  I'm retired now but I've been "HK" every since...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I wasn't a pilot, I just worked closely with pilots.  My call sign is "HK" because of my last name "*H*ouse*K*necht".  I walked into a Air Force Special Operations Command unit for my first day of work and the Commander (who had combat hours on *AC-130 Gunships*) looked at my name and said, "I can't say that, you're HK."  I took it to mean "*Heckler & Koch*"...favorite weapons amongst special ops folks.
> 
> I'm retired now but I've been "HK" every since...
> 
> ...


 
  Be afraid, be very afraid.  AC 130s know where you're at before you know where you are.


----------



## WNBC

Thank you for your service, your comments to date, and your reply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I wasn't a pilot, I just worked closely with pilots.  My call sign is "HK" because of my last name "*H*ouse*K*necht".  I walked into a Air Force Special Operations Command unit for my first day of work and the Commander (who had combat hours on AC-130 Gunships) looked at my name and said, "I can't say that, you're HK."  I took it to mean "Heckler & Koch"...favorite weapons amongst special ops folks.
> 
> I'm retired now but I've been "HK" every since...
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I don't know, if you were an adversary aircraft pilot and you had a couple of these breathing down your neck, that would be a "little scary".
> 
> 
> 
> ...




true


----------



## HK_sends

The Siemens tubes came in today (ain't gonna touch that one...):
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370502242857&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_500wt_922
   
  I only had five minutes to listen but they sounded almost "analytical".  The bass and treble extension was very impressive.  I'll write more after listening a while.
   
  MrScary, does that track with your opinion?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Nice date. If they are truly new they will need a little time. Even if not, they can require some time as the heat activates the getter and so any gas absorbed by the tube, will take a little to be taken up. Some people will either do this by using a tube tester and having just the filaments going or by using an oven. I use a tube tester or just plug them in to whatever I am going to use them in.


----------



## HK_sends

I'll just burn them in on my system...checking on them from time to time and for extended periods. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> The Siemens tubes came in today (ain't gonna touch that one...):
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370502242857&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_500wt_922
> 
> ...




Yes the Siemens E88CC tubes are analytical sounding they have great bass and great highs that can extend into sibilance depending on your audio chain, but they are a fine tube I have a set here that will be going up for sale soon in my lot of tubes.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Yes the Siemens E88CC tubes are analytical sounding they have great bass and great highs that can extend into sibilance depending on your audio chain, but they are a fine tube I have a set here that will be going up for sale soon in my lot of tubes.


 
  Now you tell me... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Actually, keep me in mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Oops, you said E88CC tubes.  Never mind...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## sling5s

About to order the Lyr for LCD-2.
  Should I get GE 6BZ7 or JJ E88CC?
   
  What's the difference?  Comparisons?


----------



## sling5s

Got the answer searching the thread.


----------



## MrScary

sling5s said:


> Got the answer searching the thread.




GE's my friend and dont looks back. If you want to expand on your tube rolling check out the thread and your budget before you get into rolling it gets very expensive very fast..


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Now you tell me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yep if you want them as an extra set just let me know and we can work something out.. I will save them for ya


----------



## ocswing

Question for you experienced tube rollers out there more familiar with their burn-in process. I got the GE 6BZ7 tubes direct from Schiit and one of them is making a low level high pitched noise through the headphones. I confirmed it was the tubes cause I was only hearing it in one ear, so I switched the tube positions and the noise came through the other ear afterwards. I'm just wondering if it is possible this noise will go away with burn in or if it's simply defective. Any advice is greatly appreciated!


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





ocswing said:


> Question for you experienced tube rollers out there more familiar with their burn-in process. I got the GE 6BZ7 tubes direct from Schiit and one of them is making a low level high pitched noise through the headphones. I confirmed it was the tubes cause I was only hearing it in one ear, so I switched the tube positions and the noise came through the other ear afterwards. I'm just wondering if it is possible this noise will go away with burn in or if it's simply defective. Any advice is greatly appreciated!


 


  How many hours do you currently have on the GEs?  It's possible the hum/whistle will leave, but only if the tube is relatively new.  I would drop Jason a line and let him know there's possible problem.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





ocswing said:


> Question for you experienced tube rollers out there more familiar with their burn-in process. I got the GE 6BZ7 tubes direct from Schiit and one of them is making a low level high pitched noise through the headphones. I confirmed it was the tubes cause I was only hearing it in one ear, so I switched the tube positions and the noise came through the other ear afterwards. I'm just wondering if it is possible this noise will go away with burn in or if it's simply defective. Any advice is greatly appreciated!


 

 Contact Schiit for a swap.


----------



## MrScary

ocswing said:


> Question for you experienced tube rollers out there more familiar with their burn-in process. I got the GE 6BZ7 tubes direct from Schiit and one of them is making a low level high pitched noise through the headphones. I confirmed it was the tubes cause I was only hearing it in one ear, so I switched the tube positions and the noise came through the other ear afterwards. I'm just wondering if it is possible this noise will go away with burn in or if it's simply defective. Any advice is greatly appreciated!




If you have less than 10 hours on the tube then just let it play overnight with some music see if it goes away if it doesn't contact Schiit as was said for a replacement set..


----------



## ocswing

Thanks for the advice guys. The GEs currently have about 30 hours on them and as they warm-up the sound becomes more noticable. Just to double check I put the JJs in and they don't make the sound so it seems like the GEs I got are defective.


----------



## MrScary

ocswing said:


> Thanks for the advice guys. The GEs currently have about 30 hours on them and as they warm-up the sound becomes more noticable. Just to double check I put the JJs in and they don't make the sound so it seems like the GEs I got are defective.




Yep just contact Jason he will set you up


----------



## HK_sends

The Telefunken ECC88 Tubes have arrived!  A wider soundstage and smooth sound that put me to sleep just burning them in!  Love the bass as well.
   
  Back to (sleep) listening... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## tkteo

Darn it you are tempting me. I know the local shop has Telefunken and Siemens E88CCs. Please, let me stick to the Mullards...


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Darn it you are tempting me. I know the local shop has Telefunken and Siemens E88CCs. Please, let me stick to the Mullards...


 


  It becomes an addiction man if you hang around here to much you can always get some of the duck nuts CCa Siemens & Halske that will set you back around 400.00 hahaha


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Darn it you are tempting me. I know the local shop has Telefunken and Siemens E88CCs. Please, let me stick to the Mullards...


 
  You could always buy some and send them to me (after trying them out)... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I could buy them from you if the prices are reasonable.  Prices on Ebay are ridiculous.
   
  Just a thought... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Darn it you are tempting me. I know the local shop has Telefunken and Siemens E88CCs. Please, let me stick to the Mullards...


 

 Considering you're using AKG 702s, which tend to be a little in your face, I'd stick with the warner/musical sound of the Mullards  I feel they compliment each other well, and in my experience, the Denon AH-DM5000s pair well with the Mullards.  The HiFiMan HE-500s, not so much.
 .


----------



## wuwhere

EAT ECC88 Cool Valve.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> EAT ECC88 Cool Valve.


 
  But I'm not hungry! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> But I'm not hungry!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  But the dampers are really tasty, however, at $225.00 per valve, buy two, they're small.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





rope said:


> But the dampers are really tasty, however, at $225.00 per valve, buy two, they're small.


 
  I'd hate to think what that would be by the pound! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Bon Appetit! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

Sorta, kinda like eatin' crawdads, just enough for a second...third...fourth...fifth..........before ya know it, you're eatin' Lays Potato chips.


----------



## adydula

WNBC....
   
  I am here!!
   
  Will post some stuff later
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## MrScary

wuwhere said:


> EAT ECC88 Cool Valve.




That wouldn't fit in the Lyr


----------



## wuwhere

I'm sure the tube cooler is removal.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> I'm sure the tube cooler is removal.


 
  Yeah, but if we grind out the grey metal plate surrounding the tube sockets and used these, it would look really cool!
   




  -HK sends


----------



## wuwhere

There you go HK. But that's too much work. I was thinking of just taking the top off and tell your friends that those two red round thingees cost as much as the amp.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> There you go HK. But that's too much work. I was thinking of just taking the top off and tell your friends that those two red round thingees cost as much as the amp.


 
  Plus, they'll match the Lyr's red circuit board.  Very fashionable!
   
  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Plus, they'll match the Lyr's red circuit board.  Very fashionable!
> 
> -HK sends


 


  Well, if it looks good, it's got to sound good.


----------



## MrScary

Get out the grinder


----------



## Rope

6DJ8/ECC88 Telefunkens are wonderful.


----------



## Gradofan2

How is the Lyr with Grados, Denons, ATH's and Senns?
   
  Does it have way too much power for them?


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> 6DJ8/ECC88 Telefunkens are wonderful.




Rope has swollen another tube all he can say is "Wonderful" hahahhaha


----------



## adydula

Just thinking why some tubes seem to sound different than others, between the same tube type and manufacture?
   
  Some of say you like the GE vs the RCA etc...being the analytical guy that I am I was wondering if when you roll your tubes in the Lyr do you actually check to see how well they are matched before you try them out?
   
  I did buy a lot of "5" GE NOS 6B7Z's and they are all over the map on my tube tester...all made in the same timeframe etc...
   
  The tubes I got in my Lyr from Schiit are supposed to be matched on a curve tracer etc..I have not tried these in my tube tester, but I think I will and try some of the NOS GE tubes with various reading and see how they "sound' to me...
   
  Would think that even though the tubes may  a little mis-matched within limits but they still are operating in the liner range they should sound the same of close to it...
   
  Even though the mechanical parts may be a bit different they should be all made to a Specification as based in the tube manual etc...
   
  Would think there would be an analytical way to correlate the measurements to what your hearing..??
   
  All the best..
  Alex


----------



## MrScary

adydula said:


> Just thinking why some tubes seem to sound different than others, between the same tube type and manufacture?
> 
> Some of say you like the GE vs the RCA etc...being the analytical guy that I am I was wondering if when you roll your tubes in the Lyr do you actually check to see how well they are matched before you try them out?
> 
> ...




I try to buy matched tubes you have to find a good seller. For some of the mullards etc you can get them matched from different sources but the rare to very rare tubes you usually have to rely on ebay and their testing its a real goose chase.
sadly the day of tubes looks like its diminishing or people are holding onto them to flood the market with out of the world prices.


----------



## adydula

Yes thats what its looking like....
   
  I have a tube tester that I use to match tubes...I know you can get matched sets...and pay for the service but I would not trust any of the ebay sellers etc...I use www.boiaudioworks.com and double check with my own testing.
   
  I really think having one good tube and one close to the edge may impact the sound depending on the music being played and the distortion that can introduced etc..
   
  Funny I got a small Sony transistor radio the other day, all of $9.95. On the plastic pack it came it the harmonic distortion spec was ...get this:  10 %....not 1% or .01 % but 10%...and the sound from it is well..."ok"!!! LOL
   
  Imagine the harmonic distortion with mose of the modern hi-fi stuff is .0000% etc....
   
  Go figure!
  Alex


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Just thinking why some tubes seem to sound different than others, between the same tube type and manufacture?
> 
> Some of say you like the GE vs the RCA etc...being the analytical guy that I am I was wondering if when you roll your tubes in the Lyr do you actually check to see how well they are matched before you try them out?
> 
> ...


 
  Here are a couple things to read:
   



*[size=8pt]TUBES: it’s RP, not MU, that's important![/size]*
 It’s the RP-value, NOT the MU-value that’s Important!

 To many people, the most important characteristic of a vacuum tube is its Amplification Factor (mu). Unfortunately, this is not true.

 Of the vacuum tubes’ three operating characteristics – Dynamic Plate Resistance (rp), Transconductance (gm) and Amplification Factor (mu) - two are _explicit_ values and one is an _implicit_ value. The gm and rp values are explicit because they come directly from the tubes’ actual operating voltages and currents. The mu value, however, is an _implicit_ value that is mathematically-_derived_ from the product of the rp and gm values:

*mu = gm * rp*

 Gm and rp are almost (but not exactly) inversely related. That is, as gm increases with increasing plate current, rp proportionately decreases. This inverse relationship causes mu to be virtually a constant that typically varies less than 10-15%.

 The vacuum tube operating characteristics gm, rp and mu are “open-circuit” values, that is, they are calculated with NO external loads applied. In the real world, however, tubes are operated in circuits having both input and output loads. It is the effects of these “loads” (especially upon the plate) that make rp more important than mu. Here’s why...

 When resistances are connected in parallel (symbol “||”), their resulting resistance is _always_ LESS than the _smallest_resistance value. For example, consider two resistances, A = 10K ohm and B = 100K ohm, connected in parallel:

*R = (A||B) = (A*B)/(A+B)*

*R = (10K*100K)/(10K + 100K) = 9.09K ~ 9.1K ohms*

 The same thing happens when a tube is operated with a plate load resistor (RP), its rp value is “loaded” in the same fashion as resistance-B “loaded” resistance-A in the example above. For instance, operating a 12AX7 (rp = 62.5K ohm) with a 100K ohm plate load resistor produces a circuit gain of only 61.5, not 100!

 Why? Because, the ‘effective’ plate resistance (rp’) is no longer 62.5K ohms – it’s 38% LESS – only 38.5K ohms:

*rp’ = rp||RP*

*rp’ = (62.5K*100K)/(62.5K + 100K) = 38.46K ~ 38.5K ohms*

 ...where:
 rp = Tube dynamic plate resistance, ohms (12AX7: 62.5K ohm)
 RP = Circuit plate load resistance, ohms (typically 100K ohm)

 Now, when tube gm is multiplied times rp’ a much LOWER amplification factor (mu’) value is obtained because of the LOWER ‘effective’ rp’ value:

*mu’ = gm * rp’*

 ...for 12AX7 gm = 0.0016 A/V, then:

*mu’ = (0.0016 * 38.5K) = 61.5*

 And, when the output loading of the NEXT circuit (tube, tone stack, etc.) is included, the effective plate load becomes even LOWER. For example, assume the 12AX7 plate load resistor RP = 100K ohm feeds its signal into a tone stack having a resistance value of Ro = 500K ohms. Now, rp’ becomes three loads in parallel:

*rp’ = (rp||RP||Ro)*

*rp’ = 1/( 1/rp + 1/RP + 1/Ro )*

*rp’ = 1/( 1/62.5K + 1/100K + 1/500K ) = 35714.3 ~ 35.7K*

*mu’ = (0.0016 * 35.7K) = 57.1*

 Thus, while the “open-circuit” gain of a 12AX7 is 100 with no load, its gain in a “real world” circuit (tube with loads) will be nearer to 60 (ie: 57-62), depending upon RP and Ro.

*SUMMARY*: “*Mu is what the tube (alone) is *_*capable of...*_*Mu’ is what you *_*actually get*_* (in a circuit).”*

 Additionally, just as circuit AMPLIFICATION is dependent upon rp, so also is circuit FREQUENCY response or BANDWIDTH (BW), ie:

*BW = 1/(2*PI*R*C)*

 ...where: R = rp||RP||Ro

 [size=x-small]So, whenever we “swap” tubes, it’s the rp value of the [/size][size=x-small]new[/size][size=x-small] tube interacting with the RP, Ro, R and C values of the [/size][size=x-small]existing[/size][size=x-small] circuit that causes the sometimes “subtle” changes in amplification (gain) and tone (frequency response) that we hear.[/size]

[size=x-small]And, here’s why...

 The rp’ values shown in Table 1 represent preamp tube operation with circuit load resistances of RP = 100K ohms and Ro = 500K ohms, ie:

 rp’ = (rp||RP||Ro)

  The [/size][size=x-small]illustrative[/size] [size=x-small]bandwidth (BW) values shown in Table 1 were calculated using R = rp’ and an assumed constant [/size][size=x-small]_fictitious_[/size] [size=x-small]capacitance  value of C = 446µF, ie: 

   BW = 1/(2*PI*R*C)
   
   where: R = rp’ and C = 446µF[/size]
[size=x-small]Table 1 - Preamp tubes sorted by MU values.[/size]
[size=x-small]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





[/size]

[size=x-small]As you can see, the greater the rp’ value, the lower the bandwidth! Which means that tubes with LOW rp values (and thus circuits with LOW rp’ values) will have greater BW and frequency response and proportionately less loss-of-gain (ie: mu’) than tubes with HIGH rp values. Table 2 re-orders the preamp tubes listing by their BW, in descending order.

 Table 2 - Preamp tubes sorted by BW values.[/size]


[size=x-small]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/size]

[size=x-small]Thus, substituting a 5751 for a 12AX7 (or ECC83, 7025, etc.) typically reduces circuit gain by 28% and slightly increases BW by 4%. Similarly, substituting a 12AY7 for a 12AX7 reduces circuit gain by almost half (45%) but nearly doubles the BW. And, remember, the greater the BW, the more “sparkle” and “chime” we’re likely to perceive.

 Why only “....likely to perceive”? Because, changing one preamp tubes’ BW does not affect the BW of ANY of the subsequent tubes along the signal path. There might be more frequencies in the drive signal to the following tubes but they will not (usually) be able to pass along those added frequencies to the speaker(s) because their BWs have not changed.

 That is ‘why’ swapping preamp tubes seemingly produces vague and subtle, instead of dramatic, tonal changes, while swapping output power tubes (the last tubes in the path) often produces VERY noticeable sonic changes.[/size]
[size=x-small]Cathode Stripping,   The electrons are basically being "yanked" directly from the cathode before there's time or energy enough to coalesce in a "cload" anymore[/size]
[size=x-small]...an "old" USN electronics proverb goes:

*SHORT = infinite BW*, because there's _*no*_* R* working with *C* to cause an RC rolloff.

*OPEN = zero BW*, because there's _*infiinite*_* R* working with *C *to cause _immediate_ RC rolloff.

 ...however, in the 'whole' amp, there's always the inductance ( L ) of the audio output transformer (OT) to consider to, which typically is *the* limiting factor for both LOW(f1)- and HIGH(f2)-cutoff frequencies!

 ...my illustrative example only includes the tube and the loading its load.[/size]
   
   
   








[size=x-small]Mu (voltage gain), Gm (transconductance) and Rp (plate resistance) are the three electrical characteristics that make up the overall electrical characteristics for a vacuum tube. . There is much confusion in the audiophile community about these factors as they affect tubes and their performance in components. Written by world-renowned amplifier, Roger Modjeski, this article, will look at what each of these characteristics mean, how they are measured and what each of them means to the sound of a component. We will also look at tube testing, tube matching and which characteristics are most important when matching tubes for a given circuit.

 How these measurements are applied and their relevance differs for triodes and pentodes. Triodes and pentodes both possess the characteristics Gm (transconductance) and Mu (voltage gain). However what is important in triodes is Mu and what is important in pentodes is Gm as these parameters are the dominant characteristics affecting performance when each is used in a typical circuit.

*Triodes*
 Triodes have an interesting relationship where two parameters relate to make a third. These parameters are locked into a relationship so that knowing any two will yield the third. Just like ohm's law. In the case of triodes, Mu = Gm x Rp. Gm has the units of mhos, (amps per volt) and Rp has the units of ohms (volts per amp) and when multiplied their units cancel, making MU (a measure of voltage gain) unit-less as it should be. A Mu of 30 means that what goes in comes out 30 times bigger.

 Triodes are most widely used for voltage amplification in our preamps. Here, Mu (voltage gain) is the more important parameter to measure and most directly affects what you hear. If you have a tube with a Mu of 30 in one channel and a MU of 33 in the other, you will have a 1-dB imbalance in your preamp. So let’s say you get two triodes matched for Gm. There is no assurance that these tubes will have equal voltage gain. Voltage gain (Mu) is the product of Gm and Rp. So if Gm is matched to, get matched Mu (the important characteristic in this circuit) Rp must be matched also and Rp is almost never measured. So as you can see although the famous Hickock tube testers are sought for their ability to measure Gm, this was more of a marketing ploy and less useful for real-world testing. If the vendor measuring Gm would give you the Rp then you could calculate the Mu by simple multiplication. The reason you don't get the Rp data is that it is hard to measure and no commercial tube tester ever measured it.

 Modern audiophiles are more concerned about "matching" than ever before. They want everything to be matched, though they rarely know what it should be matched for. This is a dangerous situation as many of you are buying because the vendor says it is matched, though it may or may not be matched for something unimportant while something important is not matched. Gm and MU are a perfect example.

 Rp or plate resistance is the second most important parameter as it directly affects the output impedance of the preamp. Circuit designers are looking at Mu primarily, Rp next and we hardly care about Gm at all. Why then do most vendors measure Gm and Gm alone? Because most testers only measure Gm! No commercial tester ever measured Mu either. And even the Hickock, treasured for measuring Gm, doesn’t measure it meaningfully (due to current dependency), accurately (due to calibration difficulties) or consistently (due to internal circuit drift).

 Since Mu is what controls voltage gain, and voltage gain is what we listen to, then lets measure that directly. That is just what we do at RAM TUBE WORKS. Of course we had to build our own tester to do that. A few years ago I heard that one of my competitors tried to duplicate the RAM tester and gave up after spending $100,000. It took me about a year to develop the small tube tester and another 6 months to develop the power tube tester. These were no small efforts.

*Pentodes*
 Pentodes are an entirely different matter. For Pentodes, as used in our power amp output stages, Gm does indeed matter and must be matched for good performance. Not only must Gm be matched, but it must stay matched over the range of bias currents typically found in amps.

 In pentodes, Rp is very large and is swamped out by the load impedance. Therefore, gain is Gm times the load impedance presented to the tube (through the output transformer). Gm is the thing to measure here but the Hickok does not measure anywhere near the real world operating voltages and currents found in a typical circuit. Given I had an accurate way to measure bias and Gm at real operating conditions in a tester of my design, I found that tubes matched for bias and matched for Gm would "track" each other over the wide range of bias currents encountered in power amps. Without this accurate "double match" there would be no guarantee that tubes measured at 50 mA (where we measure) would match at 30-70 Ma where sometimes used, or match over the range of screen voltages from 300-450 V encountered in the range of Pentode circuits (RM-200, RM-10, ARC) to Ultralinear circuits (RM-9, MANLEY, CJ).

*Effects of Tube Aging*
 Regarding a tube’s performance as it ages, these parameters will remain stable as long as the cathode emission is 70% or more of its original value. If Gm, Rp and Mu are right and matched when new, they will stay right and matched through the usable life. Given that, all we need to measure is the emission to know the tube is still good. Only in rare cases will this not be true. At RAM, our job is to check up on the tube makers and verify that they keep parameters within the published range (we reject tubes outside that range) and match for variations within that range. In the large batches of tubes we measure we see exactly what would be expected: Bell Curves for each parameter. See my article "Why the sound of your preamp changes when you change the tubes" for more on that.

 My recommendation for home testing: get a simple Emission tester like a B&K DYNA-JET, Heathkit, Eico or other NON-Gm tester. They are simple to use, stable, accurate and relate well to the life remaining in your tubes. Buy your tubes from someone who certifies their specs to be proper when new. Those specs are built into the tube and will remain constant as the tube ages. All you need to do is monitor the condition on the cathode coating, which is easily measured via emission. So if a tube was properly made and tested when new, all one needs to assess its current state is a simple emission tester.[/size]


----------



## Rope

Thanks for the headache.


----------



## HK_sends

Well, I finally managed to acquire two sets of CCa tubes off ebay.  When I receive them, I'll report my impressions of the sound.
   




  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Well, I managed to acquire two sets of CCa tubes off ebay.  When I receive them, I'll report my impressions of the sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What kind of CCA Valvo, Siemens ???


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mrscary said:


> What kind of CCA Valvo, Siemens ???


 
  Siemens and Halske grey-plates.  Got outbid on some Valvo CCa's...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## adydula

Now thats what I am talking about....kwkarth!!
   
  Imagine that...yes a headache...but very interesting!!
   
  thanks
  much!
   
  Alex


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Siemens and Halske grey-plates.  Got outbid on some Valvo CCa's...
> 
> -HK sends




Are you the one that payed like 400+ for a set last night I saw that?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mrscary said:


> Are you the one that payed like 400+ for a set last night I saw that?


 

 No, the two sets I bought went for just over $200 each.  The set of four Valvo CCa's (which I got outbid on) went for something like $330.
   
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> 
> No, the two sets I bought went for just over $200 each.  The set of four Valvo CCa's (which I got outbid on) went for something like $330.
> 
> -HK sends




Can you send me the link thats a good price about what I paid..


----------



## Rope

Don't send Scary any links, HK.  He'll buy up all the tubes and then we'll have none.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mrscary said:


> Can you send me the link thats a good price about what I paid..


 
  I'll have to send the links after work.  Our stupid filter blocks ebay....
  
  Quote: 





rope said:


> Don't send Scary any links, HK.  He'll buy up all the tubes and then we'll have none.


 
  Well, if I don't like them then I will sell mine.  Even If I do like them, I'll probably still sell the second set.  I put in two bids to get one set.  I never thought I would win them both. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Yes do let us know if you decide to sell a pair. I for one am shopping for some.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Guys, I'd be really careful about besttubes on eBay. It's suspicious that he has so many CCa's all the time, especially with perfect printing.
   
  If you buy from him, take some time to check the tube and see if it's legit. Wouldn't want any of you to end up with fake merchandise.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


misterrogers said:


> Yes do let us know if you decide to sell a pair. I for one am shopping for some.


 
  I will.  I have built up quite a collection of different tubes that I would like to sell individually or as a "Lyr Tube Rolling Kit".  Several brands of 6BZ7's, Mullard E88CC (I prefer the ECC88s), and CV2492s, and a set of Cryo'd 6N23Ps.  I am hoping to sell them as a lot to someone to roll and pick out a few, then maybe add tubes that they don't wish to keep, then sell on to someone else, in hopes of giving everyone an opportunity to roll different classes and tube makers.  I will be including the Genalex Gold Lions as well.
   
  I really just want to give people an opportunity to try different things.  Does anyone have any ideas how I can do this in a way to recoup a little of my investment, but not seem like a greedy b*st*rd?  Perhaps renting the set for a small fee, with an option to buy sets of tubes?
   
  Of course, I have to assume all of us are honorable in our dealings, but it would be nice to let someone try different tubes without making a major investment (Like I did).
   
  Thoughts anyone?
   




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


benjamin6264 said:


> Guys, I'd be really careful about besttubes on eBay. It's suspicious that he has so many CCa's all the time, especially with perfect printing.
> 
> If you buy from him, take some time to check the tube and see if it's legit. Wouldn't want any of you to end up with fake merchandise.


 

 NOW, he tells me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Has anyone confirmed whether he's legit or not?
   
  -HK sends


----------



## Benjamin6264

I'm just suggesting to be careful. He could be legit too.
   
  There are however some factors that should put everyone on their guard :
   
  95.8% feedback;
  Very high number of a very rare tube;
  Impeccable printing (most are very worn from the years);
  Odd test results (I recall seeing an auction for 6 NOS tubes where one tested below usable).
   
  First of all, try the tubes when you get them. If they sound great, that's already a good sign.
   
  Also, compare with other pictures of CCa's from the web, especially the internal structure.
   
  If you have some doubts or don't enjoy the sound like you think you should, ask for a return and hopefully there will be no complications.
   
  If they sound CCa-worthy and seem legit from what you see, then enjoy a pair of awesome CCa's.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


benjamin6264 said:


> I'm just suggesting to be careful. He could be legit too.
> 
> There are however some factors that should put everyone on their guard :
> 
> ...


 
  Great Advice!  Thanks!
   
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> I'm just suggesting to be careful. He could be legit too.
> 
> There are however some factors that should put everyone on their guard :
> 
> ...




YOu will know if the are CCa's they have a 3d sound to them if you dont hear it then they are fakes but I looked at them and they look legit I had them on my watch list..
Also, if they are NOS then its possible to have perfect printing they could have set for 30 years in a box I have A frames that have perfect print as one of my pairs of CCa's do.
Another plus is besttubes is from Germany and if you are going to find CCa's that would be logical place that has the most tubes.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mrscary said:


> YOu will know if the are CCa's they have a 3d sound to them if you dont hear it then they are fakes but I looked at them and they look legit I had them on my watch list..
> Also, if they are NOS then its possible to have perfect printing they could have set for 30 years in a box I have A frames that have perfect print as one of my pairs of CCa's do.
> *Another plus is besttubes is from Germany and if you are going to find CCa's that would be logical place that has the most tubes.*


 
  Yeah, that's what I thought too.  He's out of Berlin.  But I will check them out closely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> 
> No, the two sets I bought went for just over $200 each.  The set of four Valvo CCa's (which I got outbid on) went for something like $330.
> 
> -HK sends


 

  
  Those are expensive 6922s. I just bought 4 for my ARC amp, the NOS Amperex for Tektronix.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> *Those are expensive 6922s.* I just bought 4 for my ARC amp, the NOS Amperex for Tektronix.


 
  Yeah, I know.  However, according to several tube info sites, these are supposed to be the Cadillac of 6922s.  I figure I could at least take them for a test drive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  ...at least before fiscal reality hits and I have to go back to $10 tubes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yeah, I know.  However, according to several tube info sites, these are supposed to be the Cadillac of 6922s.  I figure I could at least take them for a test drive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  They're more like the Bentleys or Maybachs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But according to this guy, the pinched ones are supposed to be the best, his opinion.
   
  http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> They're more like the Bentleys or Maybachs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  In that article he doesn't mention the CCa Siemens he just warns of the counterfeiters look at tubeworld.com and get a more precise picture of them.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> In that article he doesn't mention the CCa Siemens he just warns of the counterfeiters look at tubeworld.com and get a more precise picture of them.


 

  
  There are other 6922s that are also very good for a lot less money, that was the point. Not to insult anyone here, I just can't justify spending that kind of money for a pair of tubes to put in a Lyr.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> There are other 6922s that are also very good for a lot less money, that was the point. Not to insult anyone here, I just can't justify spending that kind of money for a pair of tubes to put in a Lyr.


 
   
  The Lyr is the starting point what you put in it is the final outcome. Yes as I suggested the Mullards run around 120.00 a set I take no offense I have 30 sets of tubes and many are good but there always the CCa's which take it to another level


----------



## zhunter

Well, Im the guy who won a matched pair of Siemens & Halske CCa, grey getter from besttubes - the Germany ebay seller, and I've just received it today, took 11 days to arrive to Australia, pretty fast shipping though. After getting some shots to show you guys how it looks, and yeah, I'd say the printing is pretty good as well as the box, perhaps they are well kept. I let it warming up for about 30mins and started to appreciate ... and Wow! What a huge improvement! I'm not an audiophile expert and English is not my native language so Im sorry about that first. And these are my first impressions after 30 mins of listening, from Pop ballad ( some tracks of Celine Dion, Il Divo) to Melodic Death metal ( Dark Tranquility - some tracks from The Gallery album), and trance (Armin, Paul van Dyk), all tracks are lossless format:
   
  - improved in imaging, 3D, soundstage is bigger as well.
  - huge improvement to bass, especially kick drums!
  - mid is sweeter, warmer, and a little more forwarded engaging.
  - treble is less recessed in some particular tracks, more airy.
   
  Well, to me, those improvements are not subtle, its impressed me right the LCD2 is started to sing, I'd say that besttubes is a trusted seller, pretty fast international shipping at resonable charge. And these are some pics of them, Im sorry for the quality, took it from my iphone since I don't have any decent camera.
   


   
  And my setup:

   
  Cheers,
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Alex


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





zhunter said:


> Well, Im the guy who won a matched pair of Siemens & Halske CCa, grey getter from besttubes - the Germany ebay seller, and I've just received it today, took 11 days to arrive to Australia, pretty fast shipping though. After getting some shots to show you guys how it looks, and yeah, I'd say the printing is pretty good as well as the box, perhaps they are well kept. I let it warming up for about 30mins and started to appreciate ... and Wow! What a huge improvement! I'm not an audiophile expert and English is not my native language so Im sorry about that first. And these are my first impressions after 30 mins of listening, from Pop ballad ( some tracks of Celine Dion, Il Divo) to Melodic Death metal ( Dark Tranquility - some tracks from The Gallery album), and trance (Armin, Paul van Dyk), all tracks are lossless format:
> 
> - improved in imaging, 3D, soundstage is bigger as well.
> - huge improvement to bass, especially kick drums!
> ...


 



 Awesome yes the Siemens CCa's are a special tube love them congrats


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> There are other 6922s that are also very good for a lot less money, that was the point. Not to insult anyone here, I just can't justify spending that kind of money for a pair of tubes to put in a Lyr.


 
  I didn't take it as an insult because you are right.  There are other excellent 6922 tubes out there but curiosity got the better of my wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> The Lyr is the starting point what you put in it is the final outcome. Yes as I suggested the Mullards run around 120.00 a set I take no offense I have 30 sets of tubes and many are good but there always the CCa's which take it to another level


 
  Only thirty? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I don't even want to say how many I have now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





zhunter said:


> Well, Im the guy who won a matched pair of Siemens & Halske CCa, grey getter from besttubes - the Germany ebay seller, and I've just received it today, took 11 days to arrive to Australia, pretty fast shipping though. After getting some shots to show you guys how it looks, and yeah, I'd say the printing is pretty good as well as the box, perhaps they are well kept. I let it warming up for about 30mins and started to appreciate ... and Wow! What a huge improvement! I'm not an audiophile expert and English is not my native language so Im sorry about that first. And these are my first impressions after 30 mins of listening, from Pop ballad ( some tracks of Celine Dion, Il Divo) to Melodic Death metal ( Dark Tranquility - some tracks from The Gallery album), and trance (Armin, Paul van Dyk), all tracks are lossless format:
> 
> - improved in imaging, 3D, soundstage is bigger as well.
> - huge improvement to bass, especially kick drums!
> ...


 
  Thanks, Alex!  That's great to hear!  No need to apologize about your English, you did fine.
  Now, I really can't wait to listen.
   




  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Only thirty?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 Remember I sold tubes along the way so probably more like 40


----------



## perfect-pitch

Hello guys,

i am very disappointed with the performance of my Lyr with my LCDs 2 which arrived today. There is a very noticeably hum i can hear between the songs. I tried out about 5 different pairs of tubes, changed the rca cables, plugged a ground loop isolater between the dac and the lyr without any success.
Before i used the LCD2 i had a T1 into the amp, where the humming was there but very quiet. So the T1 has 600ohm so i know why the humming is more quiet.
Interesting is the fact, that the humming is still there although the rca cables are not plugged in. So i think the reason is the power cable.
I am very satisfied with the combination lyr and t1, but the combination lyr and lcd2 is not satisfying at the moment.
Do you have some advice for me? 

Very sad at the moment.

perfect-pitch


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> i am very disappointed with the performance of my Lyr with my LCDs 2 which arrived today. There is a very noticeably hum i can hear between the songs. I tried out about 5 different pairs of tubes, changed the rca cables, plugged a ground loop isolater between the dac and the lyr without any success.
> Before i used the LCD2 i had a T1 into the amp, where the humming was there but very quiet. So the T1 has 600ohm so i know why the humming is more quiet.
> ...


 
  Did you check to see if your power cord has the hot and neutral lines reversed?  How about your house wiring?


----------



## strannik

I recall reading someone here at head-fi had the same problem. Ended up being house wiring, try it in a different room / building if possible.
   
  May I ask what troubles you about the Lyr + LCD-2 combo?
  
  Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> i am very disappointed with the performance of my Lyr with my LCDs 2 which arrived today. There is a very noticeably hum i can hear between the songs. I tried out about 5 different pairs of tubes, changed the rca cables, plugged a ground loop isolater between the dac and the lyr without any success.
> Before i used the LCD2 i had a T1 into the amp, where the humming was there but very quiet. So the T1 has 600ohm so i know why the humming is more quiet.
> ...


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> i am very disappointed with the performance of my Lyr with my LCDs 2 which arrived today. There is a very noticeably hum i can hear between the songs. I tried out about 5 different pairs of tubes, changed the rca cables, plugged a ground loop isolater between the dac and the lyr without any success.
> Before i used the LCD2 i had a T1 into the amp, where the humming was there but very quiet. So the T1 has 600ohm so i know why the humming is more quiet.
> ...


 



 sounds like house wiring this seems like a common problem for people
   
  Take your lyr into another room that is on another circuit and test it


----------



## perfect-pitch

strannik said:


> I recall reading someone here at head-fi had the same problem. Ended up being house wiring, try it in a different room / building if possible.
> 
> May I ask what troubles you about the Lyr + LCD-2 combo?




I am only in trouble with the very noticeable humming. The Lyr and LCD2 are really a perfect match together, but at the moment the performance isn't very well to my ears because of the humming.
I tried the Lyr at my other listening places with the same bad results. On the other hand i checked out my Concerto and my NFB 10 from audio gd at the same place with the same rca and power cables- dead background- totally silence.
I hope that there will not be something wrong with my lyr.

Sadly regards


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> I am only in trouble with the very noticeable humming. The Lyr and LCD2 are really a perfect match together, but at the moment the performance isn't very well to my ears because of the humming.
> I tried the Lyr at my other listening places with the same bad results. On the other hand i checked out my Concerto and my NFB 10 from audio gd at the same place with the same rca and power cables- dead background- totally silence.
> I hope that there will not be something wrong with my lyr.
> 
> Sadly regards


 
  You may have an unusually noisy one.  Contact Schiit and see what they say.


----------



## ocswing

Just wanted to update how awesome the guys at Schiit are. I emailed them yesterday about my defective GE 6BZ7s and got an immediate reply that they would send new ones out. Checked the mail today and they've already arrived! I do live in California so it's not like they had to go far, but the fact that they got them out yesterday early enough is amazing service. The new tubes are currently warming up before I give them a listen. I know $20 is said to be a little expensive for the GEs, but I really don't mind paying a little more to have the pleasure to deal with Jason and the guys at Schiit.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





ocswing said:


> Just wanted to update how awesome the guys at Schiit are. I emailed them yesterday about my defective GE 6BZ7s and got an immediate reply that they would send new ones out. Checked the mail today and they've already arrived! I do live in California so it's not like they had to go far, but the fact that they got them out yesterday early enough is amazing service. The new tubes are currently warming up before I give them a listen. I know $20 is said to be a little expensive for the GEs, but I really don't mind paying a little more to have the pleasure to deal with Jason and the guys at Schiit.


 

 Word!
   
  You can manufacture and sell the best product in the entire world, but without customer service and product support, you got diddly.


----------



## tkteo

Hey guys,
   
  I am going to try a pair of Mullard E*1*88CC. Wish me luck!


----------



## MrScary

tkteo said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am going to try a pair of Mullard E*1*88CC. Wish me luck!




those are nice tubes you should like them.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





strannik said:


> *I recall reading someone here at head-fi had the same problem.* Ended up being house wiring, try it in a different room / building if possible.
> 
> May I ask what troubles you about the Lyr + LCD-2 combo?


 
   
  Duckman early in the impressions thread posted issues with his Lyr. I bought the unit from the member he sold it to. With the LCD-2 I hear no hum until the dial reaches past 2 o'clock (no music of course).


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am going to try a pair of Mullard E*1*88CC. Wish me luck!


 
  Yeah, those are on my list to try as well.  However I may have to wait a while to recover from the CCa purchase... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   




  -HK sends


----------



## strannik

Hey guys, Is there a tube that does instrument separation and soundstage really well? I've been listening with Mullard 6DJ8 and stock 6BZ7 and things sound a bit too mashed together with both of them.


----------



## kwkarth

Have you looked to see if your source might be at the root of this problem?  I would expect this from something like an HRT Streamer for example.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





strannik said:


> Hey guys, Is there a tube that does instrument separation and soundstage really well? I've been listening with Mullard 6DJ8 and stock 6BZ7 and things sound a bit too mashed together with both of them.


 
   
  6DJ8 Amperex Orange Globe A-frames.


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





strannik said:


> Hey guys, Is there a tube that does instrument separation and soundstage really well? I've been listening with Mullard 6DJ8 and stock 6BZ7 and things sound a bit too mashed together with both of them.


 

 To my ears the Brimar CV2492 does that well, I haven't heard a lot of tubes though.


----------



## strannik

Thanks, any idea where I could buy these? There are some orange globe 6dj8s on ebay, but they aren't A-frames, I'm guessing it's important?
  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> 6DJ8 Amperex Orange Globe A-frames.


----------



## strannik

The source is fine, I was just playing around with different amps and it jumped out at me that my Lyr setup has a bit of an underwhelming instrument separation. Hopefully with the right tubes that goes away.
  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Have you looked to see if your source might be at the root of this problem?  I would expect this from something like an HRT Streamer for example.


----------



## olor1n

A-frames are newer than the O getter Orange Globes. Mine were manufactured in 1976 and are apparently less microphonic than the older versions. I believe the A-frames I have are described as RCA labelled 6DJ8 *here*. I also have 1965 Bugle Boys. Joe's Tube Lore perfectly describes what I hear from these tubes. Take note of how to spot fakes detailed in that link.
   
  I got my tubes elsewhere, but *Benjamin6264* is selling them in the FS forum.


----------



## Mavwong

Looks like you hoot first. I only got the used E88CC mullard. Do post your impression of 188.
  
  Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am going to try a pair of Mullard E*1*88CC. Wish me luck!


----------



## Gharper1

Has anyone tried Tungsram E88CC's?


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Yeah, those are on my list to try as well.  However I may have to wait a while to recover from the CCa purchase...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have a set for you HK if you want let me know when you want them.. I will hold them for you they are matched I have only used them for about 4 hours


----------



## Misterrogers

I have some matched, cryo'd military Tungsram E88CCs on the way. I'll chime in with impressions soon. I'm jonesin for some Siemens & Halske Cca's - Gray or Silver. If any has or sees for a reasonable rate, please give me a shout.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> I have some matched, cryo'd military Tungsram E88CCs on the way. I'll chime in with impressions soon. I'm jonesin for some Siemens & Halske Cca's - Gray or Silver. If any has or sees for a reasonable rate, please give me a shout.




I will have some chrome CCa's for sale here really soon I have two sets and I just got a kick ass deal on some CCA grey plates so I have 3 sets of the grey plates and two sets of the crhome .So I will be selling some soon.. the Grey plates will be expensive but I can probably give you a deal
on the Siemens CCa's Chrome they sound the same


----------



## Misterrogers

Dibs MrScary. Let's make this happen asap.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mrscary said:


> I have a set for you HK if you want let me know when you want them.. I will hold them for you they are matched I have only used them for about 4 hours


 
  Thanks, MrScary, I'd love to try them, but I am a little funds-challenged right now.
  If you want, I can PM so we can discuss...
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I will have some chrome CCa's for sale here really soon I have two sets and I just got a kick ass deal on some CCA grey plates so I have 3 sets of the grey plates and two sets of the crhome .So I will be selling some soon.. the Grey plates will be expensive but I can probably give you a deal
> on the Siemens CCa's Chrome they sound the same


 
  Have you noticed a significant sound difference between the silver and grey plate CCa's?  Which do you think are better?
   
_EDIT: Sorry, just noticed you posting that they sound the same..._
   
  Cheers and Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## MacedonianHero

strannik said:


> *The source is fine, *I was just playing around with different amps and it jumped out at me that my Lyr setup has a bit of an underwhelming instrument separation. Hopefully with the right tubes that goes away.




What source are you running?


----------



## strannik

I'm running off a Yulong D100. Nice DAC for the price. It's kind of funny, my whole setup is "Skylab approved", the second I venture out of that, bad things start to happen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> What source are you running?


----------



## MacedonianHero

strannik said:


> I'm running off a Yulong D100. Nice DAC for the price. It's kind of funny, my whole setup is "Skylab approved", the second I venture out of that, bad things start to happen




Down the road, you may want to try another DAC.....when another case of upgraditis hits. What's your actual source? CDs, mp3, flac?


----------



## strannik

You have LCD2s, Lyr and a good Woo. Tell me what you hear between the two amps on this 30 second Beethoven clip: http://soundcloud.com/strannik/test-387
   
  Hopefully soundcloud didn't mangle the file too much, but ideally, every instrument should (and can) sound distinct and separate without straining your hearing, nothing should blend together. That is what I hear on my WA6. On my Lyr setup however, it's just a one big sound out of which things occasionally stick out.
   
  Looks like I'll have some more tubes incoming, I hope they help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Down the road, you may want to try another DAC.....when another case of upgraditis hits. What's your actual source? CDs, mp3, flac?


----------



## MrScary

macedonianhero said:


> What source are you running?




YOu need to get some good tubes in the Lyr


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Thanks, MrScary, I'd love to try them, but I am a little funds-challenged right now.
> If you want, I can PM so we can discuss...
> 
> ...




Yeah just let me know HK I will put aside the Mullards for ya. I may be selling both my sets of CCa Simens chrome I don't know yet.. I understand about fund challenged I just bought a bunch of guitar equipment luckily prices for musical creation make more sense than the
reproduction


----------



## HK_sends

Just got these today and only listened for a few hours, but they sound really good to me.  Smooth treble and great bass extension.
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220813775824&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_671wt_905
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Just got these today and only listened for a few hours, but they sound really good to me.  Smooth treble and great bass extension.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220813775824&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_671wt_905
> 
> ...




I crown you "Funny tube man" hahahaha


----------



## zhunter

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Just got these today and only listened for a few hours, but they sound really good to me.  Smooth treble and great bass extension.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220813775824&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_671wt_905
> 
> ...


 


  Congratz on your purchase! I don't even know that Toshiba used to make tubes... could you make some comparisons to others of yours?
   
  Cheers,
  Alex


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





zhunter said:


> Congratz on your purchase! I don't even know that Toshiba used to make tubes... could you make some comparisons to others of yours?
> 
> Cheers,
> Alex


 
  I need some more time with these, but I also have to roll in some Tesla ECC88s I just got as well...
   
  "Funny tube man" or "Tube fool"...take your pick! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## Benjamin6264

I liked my Valvo E88CC's so much that I've already ordered 2 more pairs. 
   
  I already recieved 1 of the pairs. They're NOS and matched, and the matching really makes a drastic difference. I don't feel like the sound is "de-centered" anymore, which was one of the only things that prevented me from enjoying my first Valvos fully. 
   
  They didn't burn in much yet, but already sound as good as the first set. 
   
  Also ordered some Siemens Halske E88CC. Their reputation/cool logo had the best of me.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





benjamin6264 said:


> I liked my Valvo E88CC's so much that I've already ordered 2 more pairs.
> 
> I already recieved 1 of the pairs. They're NOS and matched, and the matching really makes a drastic difference. I don't feel like the sound is "de-centered" anymore, which was one of the only things that prevented me from enjoying my first Valvos fully.
> 
> ...


 



 I knew you would like the Valvo's they sound real nice


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yeah, those are on my list to try as well.  However I may have to wait a while to recover from the CCa purchase...


 

 Well it will take the pair of E188CC less time to burn in than the time it will take for my wallet to replenish!
   
  How long should I let these NOS tubes burn in anyway?
   
  Update on tubes collection for Lyr: JJ E88CC (stock tubes); Mullard E88CC; Mullard E188CC; Sovtek 6N1P (but sounded kinda lifeless to me???)
   
  What's next? CV2492/2493?


----------



## MrScary

tkteo said:


> Well it will take the pair of E188CC less time to burn in than the time it will take for my wallet to replenish!
> 
> How long should I let these NOS tubes burn in anyway?
> 
> ...




NOS tubes generally are burned in at 30-50 hours approx but there is no exact time. I use that as a base guideline I to be honest never noticed a change in my CCa's and they were NOS from the first hour hahahah


----------



## HK_sends

I rolled in the Tesla ECC88's last night after the Toshibas..  The Tesla's are just as MrScary described, more detailed as well as being forward in the mids and not so strong on bass.  I have some music (Electric Light Orchestra and Alan Parsons Project) that sound really good with them.  The Toshiba tubes are pretty much a Japanese-made 6DJ8.  The sound is much warmer than the Teslas with more of an emphasis on the lower-mids and bass; possibly a good head-banging tube.
   
  The tubes need more time to fully develop so the sound signature may change over time.  If the change is significant I will post my impressions.
   




  -HK sends


----------



## tkteo

You just reminded me that I bought a pair of Tesla E88CC too. Oh oh...


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I rolled in the Tesla ECC88's last night after the Toshibas..  The Tesla's are just as MrScary described, more detailed as well as being forward in the mids and not so strong on bass.  I have some music (Electric Light Orchestra and Alan Parsons Project) that sound really good with them.  The Toshiba tubes are pretty much a Japanese-made 6DJ8.  The sound is much warmer than the Teslas with more of an emphasis on the lower-mids and bass; possibly a good head-banging tube.
> 
> The tubes need more time to fully develop so the sound signature may change over time.  If the change is significant I will post my impressions.
> 
> ...




hahaha I think you hearing will develop hahaha Im not so convinced that tubes change much after the first 10 or so hours of burning in IMHO. I know the CCa's never changed still sound the same which is great
just messing with ya


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

im kinda new to tube rolling i have an amperex orange globe that benjamin hooked me up with, which i really like. My question is ive read though the thread and see that there are certain tubes that can enhance sound stage, can anyone recommend a tube which they feel has this quality? i love my lcd2s but soundstage is my only minor beef with them. Thanks


----------



## MrScary

dailydoseofdaly said:


> im kinda new to tube rolling i have an amperex orange globe that benjamin hooked me up with, which i really like. My question is ive read though the thread and see that there are certain tubes that can enhance sound stage, can anyone recommend a tube which they feel has this quality? i love my lcd2s but soundstage is my only minor beef with them. Thanks




Hmmm Valvo E88CC's will do it there are other tubes as well that help the soundstage with the LCD's the Simens CCa's are the best at it but finding them is like pulling a goats tooth and paying for them will cost you what the Lyr cost..


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  Thanks for the advice. I looked into some, are there a difference in sound between valvo red label vs white label? 
  I also see valvo working with different manufactures on the tube. Will any of these be good choices?


----------



## MrScary

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Thanks for the advice. I looked into some, are there a difference in sound between valvo red label vs white label?
> I also see valvo working with different manufactures on the tube. Will any of these be good choices?




The Valvo white or Red Label is what I would suggest based on first hand experience..


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  appreciate it scary, ill see what i can find


----------



## MrScary

dailydoseofdaly said:


> appreciate it scary, ill see what i can find




welcome


----------



## Rope

Stick um up, Scary Dude!  Send me all your Siemens & Halske Ccas, I wanna try um before I take the plunge.


----------



## wuwhere

I was using National 7308/E188CCs (these are 6DJ8/6922) with red labels on my tube amp. So I bought some Amperex 6922 made in USA, PQ. These were labeled Tektronix. Installed them, hmmm, a little hard and thin sounding,  and the bass suffered as well. So I listened to them for two hours then had enough. I put back the Nationals. The Nationals are better, much better.


----------



## MrScary

wuwhere said:


> I was using National 7308/E188CCs (these are 6DJ8/6922) with red labels on my tube amp. So I bought some Amperex 6922 made in USA, PQ. These were labeled Tektronix. Installed them, hmmm, a little hard and thin sounding,  and the bass suffered as well. So I listened to them for two hours then had enough. I put back the Nationals. The Nationals are better, much better.




should have asked that was one of the first tubes I bought and sold...


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Stick um up, Scary Dude!  Send me all your Siemens & Halske Ccas, I wanna try um before I take the plunge.




Not a chance I have a 30mm cannon protecting them


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> should have asked that was one of the first tubes I bought and sold...


 


  They're terrible. No wonder.


----------



## nsk1

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I have some matched, cryo'd military Tungsram E88CCs on the way.


 
  I hope it's some NOS stuff and not this new crap.


----------



## Misterrogers

Yep, they're NOS - 1970 military production. Great extension, smooth mids and highs, slightly tri-dimensional. Extensions pretty good on the bottom, just a smidge loose. Very lively, gives that vail lifting sense. Overall a very nice tube. To get the cryo's I nabbed these from upland audio. Not the cheapest, but tubes always arrive quickly, well matched and in great shape. These are keepers.


----------



## nsk1

What did you have before?


----------



## adydula

Found this 6DJ8/6922 Selection Guide:  6DJ8 Description  6DJ8 was originally intended for RF cascode amplifier. The design targeted low noise, high conductance (gm), high mu and low internal resistance (rp).
  In recent years, audio manufacturers realized this combination makes it perfect for audio application. We now have a wide variety of HiFi tube equipments with 6DJ8 type tubes on the market today.
   
  6DJ8 family of tubes  Here are different numbers you see on 6DJ8 type tubes.
   

 ECC88 is European numbering for 6DJ8.   
 6922 is premium 6DJ8 type. E88CC is the European numbering for 6922.
 6922 is slightly different, but is plug-in compatible with 6DJ8/ECC88 for all intent and purposes in audio gear.  Note: All of the 6DJ8/6922/ECC88/E88CC we carry are plug-in compatible where 6DJ8/6922 is called for.
   
 6N23P is the Russian 6922 and is also compatible with 6DJ8/6922. Electro Harmonix  6922EHis derived from this 6N23P. The 6N23P family of tubes have relatively low microphony and noise. 6922EH is by far the best when it comes to low noise, and is recommended for phono or preamp application.   
 PCC88/7DJ8 has different heater, but close enough to make an excellent sub. They sound as good as their NOS 6DJ8 counterparts but at a lower price.   
 Russian 6N1P is similar to 6DJ8 and noted for being very linear. It can sub for 6DJ8, but check with your manufacturer first. 6N1P is sold under different brands, but they are made only by Voskhod factory in Russia with the Flying Rocket logo.   
   6DJ8 Selection Guide 
 For line stage and CD Player application where gain is low, any of the current production 6DJ8/6922, as well as NOS 6DJ8/6922 and even PCC88 tubes will work well.   
  In high gain application like phono or preamp, microphonics and noise become an issue.
 Note that microphonics tends to be a problem for all 6DJ8 type tubes, including super expensive NOS 6DJ8 type tubes. The only exception is Electro-Harmonix 6922EH. If you intend to use 6DJ8/6922 in microphonic-sensitive application like phono stage, we recommend 6922EH.
   
  Alex


----------



## Benjamin6264

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320733135545&ssPageName=STRK:MEBOFFX:IT
   
  I have been sent a counteroffer for these of $170. I can either accept, refuse or counteroffer.
   
  Should I accept? If not, what should I offer?
   
  I'm really tempted to buy them because:
   
  1) I the E288CC is a very rare model which I'd like to try.
  2) I already like the Valvo E88CC very much.
  3) The E288CC are longer : Easy pulling-out!


----------



## Misterrogers

You're money Benjamin - but I'd jump. I'm keen on the Valvo's too - been on the hunt for a good pair. Price seems reasonable, and they look to be in good shape. Does he has test numbers?


----------



## Benjamin6264

Auction info says never used, matched and balanced. I'll send him a PM for possible detailed results.
   
  Sent a counteroffer for $150. I'll probably take them regardless of the outcome.


----------



## Misterrogers

If not - I'd grab them


----------



## tkteo

I hope it works out for you Benjamin. Maybe it was just precautionary on his part, but the owner of the local tube shop here, when selling me the Mullard E188CC, would not sell me the E288CC. He said it may not be as suitable. Not in terms of the effects on sound but its specifications.
   
  I wonder.


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> Auction info says never used, matched and balanced. I'll send him a PM for possible detailed results.
> 
> Sent a counteroffer for $150. I'll probably take them regardless of the outcome.




ummm I doubt that the Lyr will provide the required voltage for those tubes check with Jason this reminds me of the other long tubes we tried that made guitars sound like basses..


----------



## Benjamin6264

Yeah, I was worrying about that. Maybe I won't get them finally.
   
  Plus, it's a lot of money, and I'm still saving for TF10 remolding (need to sell more vacuum tubes; got a truckload of NOS Amperex).


----------



## jamato8

The operating points for the E288CC are different. I don't think you will get the sound the tube can produce when correctly set up with the right operating points.


----------



## Misterrogers

Let me know if you decide to pass Benjamin. I'll check with Jason, but I noticed that Upscale Audio sells a E288CC Siemens as a 6922 replacement. He does note that you should contact him to be sure it'll work.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Let me know if you decide to pass Benjamin. I'll check with Jason, but I noticed that Upscale Audio sells a E288CC Siemens as a 6922 replacement. He does note that you should contact him to be sure it'll work.




As Jamato8 said it wont work in the Lyr there are some Tesla tubes on ebay right now that are highly sought after I would go after those.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Yeah, I'm not gonna buy them finally. Will save the money for remolding.


----------



## Rope

Scary -
   
  What would theTeslas compare to sound wise.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





rope said:


> Scary -
> 
> What would theTeslas compare to sound wise.


 
  Tesla's have beautifully forward mids and smooth treble with lots of detail.  While light on bass, I just added a little bass EQ on them with my Cowon J3 and they sound incredible.  Although these are ECC88's (6DJ8), their sound is closer to E88CC (6922).
   
  I've got four sets and will only keep two.
   





  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Jason's comment: "It won't be very linear--E288CCs want to run at much higher current than the E88CCs. So yeah, it'll work, but not well.". Since you passed Benjamin, I picked them up for $150 - mainly because tubes & tube history is becoming a bit of a hobby. They are indeed rare and interesting. I'll certainly pop them in and share impressions. It's an interesting tube. I'm sure you (at least Benjamin) researched it on the web. It's pretty much positioned as 'the very best'. Brent Jesse labels them 'ultra premium 6DJ8/7308' and there seems to be lots of 'copy and paste' going on with this sentence: 'ARE TOP SOUNDING SPECIAL QUALITY VERSION OF THE 7308/E188CC'.
   
  If you dig deep, you'll find some comparisons such as: http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6DJ8.html. I get the sense that it's a well made, well matched tube that shares the better qualities of the better Siemens tubes WHERE the control points fall in spec. with the circuit of your amp/dac. Where it's not linear, it likely gives ground to the better E88CC/6922/7308 Siemens tubes.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Jason's comment: "It won't be very linear--E288CCs want to run at much higher current than the E88CCs. So yeah, it'll work, but not well.". Since you passed Benjamin, I picked them up for $150 - mainly because tubes & tube history is becoming a bit of a hobby. They are indeed rare and interesting. I'll certainly pop them in and share impressions. It's an interesting tube. I'm sure you (at least Benjamin) researched it on the web. It's pretty much positioned as 'the very best'. Brent Jesse labels them 'ultra premium 6DJ8/7308' and there seems to be lots of 'copy and paste' going on with this sentence: 'ARE TOP SOUNDING SPECIAL QUALITY VERSION OF THE 7308/E188CC'.
> 
> If you dig deep, you'll find some comparisons such as: http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6DJ8.html. I get the sense that it's a well made, well matched tube that shares the better qualities of the better Siemens tubes WHERE the control points fall in spec. with the circuit of your amp/dac. Where it's not linear, it likely gives ground to the better E88CC/6922/7308 Siemens tubes.




Wont work well in the Lyr but you will be able to resell them down the road


----------



## adydula

Ok I just put in a new matched set of 6922's by EH. After playing 30 hours or so with the 6BZ7's...which to me sound very, very nice, these new 6922's sound at least as good as if not better...the treble sounds sound better to me after going back and forth a few times...swapping isn that hard with the Lyr as I have heard that is if the tubes are cool!!..
   
  Seems I dont have to have the volume cranked up as much with these 6922's to get the 'attack' I like or level of sound pressue I am accustomed to that makes the presentation come 'alive'.
   
  I was a bit amazed at the difference in sound...really for the better...better highs and overall presentation..how do you put a measurement on this perceived improvement?? It drives me nuts..but it sounds pretty nice...maybe fair to say it sound overall 5% to 10 % better...the treble, tighter drum kick sounds...
   
  OK back to listening and enjoying..only $30 for these matched set..matched very well.
   
  All the best...and smiling..
  Alex


----------



## Misterrogers

Careful, you're about to come down with a sweet but expensive sickness


----------



## adydula

Misterrogers....these tubes really sound GREAT!...I was boarderline orgasmic with the 6BZ7's...these now after 30 or so of my favorite standbys..Allison Krauss, Alanis Morrisette, Diana Krall, SaraK, Natalie Cole..and even Stevie Nicks...OMG its sweet...
   
  Dont think I ever could do the more than $30 - $50 a set of tubes...would have to have them, try them first...the old doubting thomas that I am....but heck these were $30 whats really loose.
   
  OK back to listening!
  Alex


----------



## MacedonianHero

adydula said:


> Misterrogers....these tubes really sound GREAT!...I was boarderline orgasmic with the 6BZ7's...these now after 30 or so of my favorite standbys..Allison Krauss, Alanis Morrisette, Diana Krall, SaraK, Natalie Cole..and even Stevie Nicks...OMG its sweet...
> 
> Dont think I ever could do the more than $30 - $50 a set of tubes...would have to have them, try them first...the old doubting thomas that I am....but heck these were $30 whats really loose.
> 
> ...




I actually prefer the 6BZ7s from Schiit more than my Mullard CV2492 ($100 shipped) with my Lyr.


----------



## adydula

Macedonian Hero...the 6BZ7's I got with mine are also very good as I have posted..it may be placebo effect but everything with these 6922's "seems" so much more better, positive...but I will listen for several more days and swap back and see how I feel about their signature..but OMG its so sweet tonight with these tubes, this amp and these cans. Its a very initmate experience..hearing things again that I have not heard ....all over again....if you know what I mean...forget the stuff and enjoy the music, the talent, the words etc...guess this is the nirvana we all look for with all this crap...a grand illusion..aint technology great!!
   
  Smiling!!
   
  Alex


----------



## MacedonianHero

adydula said:


> Macedonian Hero...the 6BZ7's I got with mine are also very good as I have posted..it may be placebo effect but everything with these 6922's "seems" so much more better, positive...but I will listen for several more days and swap back and see how I feel about their signature..but OMG its so sweet tonight with these tubes, this amp and these cans. Its a very initmate experience..hearing things again that I have not heard ....all over again....if you know what I mean...forget the stuff and enjoy the music, the talent, the words etc...guess this is the nirvana we all look for with all this crap...a grand illusion..aint technology great!!
> 
> Smiling!!
> 
> Alex




The Lyr does change it's sound quite a bit based on the tubes you're using. My personal favourites (still) are the Genalex Gold Lions, but the 6BZ7s aren't too far behind. I especially prefer them (6BZ7s) with my HE-6s (a little more gain with these cans is just what I think the doctor ordered).


----------



## jamato8

As I have mentioned there are different 6BZ7's just as there are different 6DJ8's and 6922 and so forth. The 6BZ7's are worth having a few different ones as the price is so low but I do enjoy other tubes as well. The Siemens and Amperex and Mullards are all fun and bring something a little different to the party.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jamato8 said:


> As I have mentioned there are different 6BZ7's just as there are different 6DJ8's and 6922 and so forth. The 6BZ7's are worth having a few different ones as the price is so low but I do enjoy other tubes as well. The Siemens and Amperex and Mullards are all fun and bring something a little different to the party.




My comments were limited to the NOS GE's sold by Schiit Audio. I do have a pair of NOS Sylvanias coming in this week and I'll report back. I've tried many 6922s and variants and kept coming back to the Genalex Gold Lions. But with the added gain and really nice balanced presentation of the 6BZ7s coupled with my HE-6s, I've been very impressed by these tubes that don't cost relatively much, but sounded fantastic.


----------



## MrScary

macedonianhero said:


> My comments were limited to the NOS GE's sold by Schiit Audio. I do have a pair of NOS Sylvanias coming in this week and I'll report back. I've tried many 6922s and variants and kept coming back to the Genalex Gold Lions. But with the added gain and really nice balanced presentation of the 6BZ7s coupled with my HE-6s, I've been very impressed by these tubes that don't cost relatively much, but sounded fantastic.




The GL's were my first tube I think they are a great mid centric tube but that's it their only advantage is they are new and readily available if you get vintage 60's tubes such as Valvo's Siemens, Mullards, Telefuken, and even some Tesla's you can never go back.


----------



## LiqTenExp

Hey for all you NJ area Lyr tube rollers, we will have a couple Lyr with a selection of tubes to roll at the NJ meet this year in East Hanover from 10am-6pm
   
  See link in my sig for information!


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I actually prefer the 6BZ7s from Schiit more than my Mullard CV2492 ($100 shipped) with my Lyr.


 


  If you're interested in a backup pair of Gold Lions, which incidentally have around 8 hours on them, perhaps you'd consider making some kind of exchange for your Mullard CV2492's?


----------



## MacedonianHero

mrscary said:


> The GL's were my first tube I think they are a great mid centric tube but that's it their only advantage is they are new and readily available if you get vintage 60's tubes such as Valvo's Siemens, Mullards, Telefuken, and even some Tesla's you can never go back.




Here's the thing...I did....Siemens, Mullard (CV2492), Amperex Bugle Boys and Telefunkens....and I came back full circle to the Genalex Gold Lions. Their mids are fantastic and given burn-in with frequency sweeps, they do not have a deleterious effect on the bass or treble.


----------



## MacedonianHero

rope said:


> If you're interested in a backup pair of Gold Lions, which incidentally have around 8 hours on them, perhaps you'd consider making some kind of exchange for your Mullard CV2492's?




I sold off both my pairs of CV2492s....I just never listened to them much. They were fantastic on my (now sold) WA2, but didn't seem to synergize as well with the Lyr.


----------



## Rope

Bummer!  Although you probably don't really need a second pair of GLs


----------



## Kremer930

Hmm. Perhaps my Gold lions haven't been given enough burn in time as I too feel that thy are light in the bottom end with my HE6. The 6N1P from Schiit have such luscious bass and a removed veil in comparison that the slight harshness in the top end is well worth it in payment. 

Others disagree. 

Scary is probably half way through drafting his comments on the 6N1P's even whilst I type this. Ha ha ha.


----------



## WNBC

I might have to give these 6922EH a shot.  I like the idea of tube that doesn't need a lot of gain in order to sound good.  
  I have cured myself of the sickness for quite some time so maybe I shouldn't try them.  No new tubes in 2-3 weeks.  Last purchase was a backup pair of IEC 6DJ8.  
   
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Careful, you're about to come down with a sweet but expensive sickness


 
   
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> Ok I just put in a new matched set of 6922's by EH. After playing 30 hours or so with the 6BZ7's...which to me sound very, very nice, these new 6922's sound at least as good as if not better...the treble sounds sound better to me after going back and forth a few times...swapping isn that hard with the Lyr as I have heard that is if the tubes are cool!!..
> 
> Seems I dont have to have the volume cranked up as much with these 6922's to get the 'attack' I like or level of sound pressue I am accustomed to that makes the presentation come 'alive'.
> 
> ...


----------



## tkteo

The EH refers to Electro Harmonix?
   
  Speaking of 6N1P, my experiences with Sovtek versions were underwhelming. Of course your mileage may vary


----------



## MrScary

macedonianhero said:


> Here's the thing...I did....Siemens, Mullard (CV2492), Amperex Bugle Boys and Telefunkens....and I came back full circle to the Genalex Gold Lions. Their mids are fantastic and given burn-in with frequency sweeps, they do not have a deleterious effect on the bass or treble.




Yeah thats the thing everyones audio chain is different so for all I know if I had the GL's right now I may use them since I have changed things around in my chain.  the sad thing is I have spent so much money on tubes I could have bought a real high end amp hahahaha


----------



## adydula

EH = Electro Harmonix
   
  Heres is where I got the matched set:
   
http://www.boiaudioworks.com/6922EHMatchedPair 
   
  Great price, Great maching...sounds Great...and Great Fast Shipping..
   
  Alex


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


wnbc said:


> I might have to give these 6922EH a shot.  I like the idea of tube that doesn't need a lot of gain in order to sound good.
> I have cured myself of the sickness for quite some time so maybe I shouldn't try them.  No new tubes in 2-3 weeks.  *Last purchase was a backup pair of IEC 6DJ8*.


 
  Was that yesterday?  If so, you outbid me by $1! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

I would never do such a thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I purchased them from this site...
http://tctubes.com/Mullard-6DJ8-ECC88-IEC-label.aspx
  I got the last matched set.  They don't have any matched pairs at the moment so you roll the dice with a purchase of two.
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Was that yesterday?  If so, you outbid me by $1!
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


wnbc said:


> I would never do such a thing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I appreciate that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'll just keep an eye on the site to see if they put up any matched sets.
   
  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Oops! I fear that may have been me. Sorry about that mate!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Oops! I fear that may have been me. Sorry about that mate!


 
  Well, at least I know they went to a good home... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

I was trying to determine the year of those IEC Mullards. Went for it because the price was right. I think they're 1969s. What years do you chaps have?


----------



## obazavil

On tubemonger I bought the $125 Mullards... but they send me the Mullards without logo... just be aware of that for future buyers...
   
  Ok... tubemonger contacted me, and seems that I was mistaken.
   
  I was expecting the Mullards to come with "Mullards" logo and E88CC logo all over the tubes (as they are seen in the pictures in their site), but seems I got the "Military Number CV2492"
   

 Code
 Manufacturer
 A
 Mullard, Blackburn, prior to Jan 1951
 A
 Thorn, Tottenham, prior to April 1964 
 AB
 Sylvania-Thorn, Enfield
 AC
 Thorn-AEI, Footscray
 AD
 Thorn-AEI (Brimar), Rochester
 B
 Edison Swan, Baldock, prior to Sept 1945
 BA
 AEI, Woolwich
 BC
 Joseph Lucas, Birmingham
 C
 Edison Swan, Ponders End, prior to Sept 1951
 CC
 Cathodeon, Cambridge
 CE
 20th Century Electronics, prior to March 1957
 CF
 20th Century Electronics, New Addington
 CN
 Pye Industrial Electronics
 CO
 Newmarket transistors, Newmarket
 CS
 Cathodeon, Southend
 D
 Mullard Radio Valve Co., Mitcham
 DA
 Mullard Radio Valve Co., Blackburn
 DB
 Mullard Radio Valve Co., Salford
 DC
 Mullard Radio Valve Co., Whyteleafe
 DE
 Mullard Radio Valve Co., Fleetwood
 DF
 Mullard Radio Valve Co., Waddon

   
   
  So... They are OK, and they sound pretty good M
   
  My apologizes to tubemonger... next time I will ask them before complaining


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I was trying to determine the year of those IEC Mullards. Went for it because the price was right. I think they're 1969s. What years do you chaps have?


 
  I don't have any... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   




   




  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Dude, you should get some! I hear they're great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Heh. If it makes you feel any better, this is my first pair


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Dude, you should get some! I hear they're great!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm patient and can wait until more are put up for sale...I just want them NOW!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Seriously, after you get them and have a chance, could you post your impressions of the sound?
  Thanks!
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

One pair have a date of "1970s" written on the box.  The other pair are likely the same with identical codes (1022-201) on them.  Not sure if they are date codes, searching the web for some additional info.  Both sets made in Great Britian.
http://tctubes.com/mullard-6dj8-ecc88-iec-label.aspx
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I was trying to determine the year of those IEC Mullards. Went for it because the price was right. I think they're 1969s. What years do you chaps have?


----------



## Rope

IEC purchased the rights to market Mullard tubes in 1964.


----------



## HK_sends

Has anyone tried the Electro-Harmonix 6922 tubes?  I wanted to get some impressions.
   
  Thanks and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  HK sends
   
_Still waiting for my CCa's to show..._


----------



## tkteo

I have not. A second local store stocks both the regular and gold pin version of the Electro Harmonix 6922.
   
  I have been enjoying the Mullard E88CC and E188CC too much, though I almost bought a pair of Siemens Cca today.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> I have not. A second local store stocks both the regular and gold pin version of the Electro Harmonix 6922.
> 
> I have been enjoying the Mullard E88CC and E188CC too much, though I *almost bought a pair of Siemens Cca today*.


 
  Oh, just go ahead and buy the CCa tubes (for me)...you want my mailing address? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## tkteo

Nah, I gotta think about hand-delivering it to myself first.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Nah, I gotta think about hand-delivering it to myself first.


 
  You're just no fun at all... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

tkteo said:


> I have not. A second local store stocks both the regular and gold pin version of the Electro Harmonix 6922.
> 
> I have been enjoying the Mullard E88CC and E188CC too much, though I almost bought a pair of Siemens Cca today.




Which siemens CCA's there are the Silver plate, Grey Plate and Aframe CCa's


----------



## HK_sends

I actually got the Electro-Harmonix 6922 tubes (regular, not gold-pin) in today and with only four hours of burn-in, am quite surprised at how nice they sound.  They are smooth with a nice reach in the low end as well as pleasant treble.  They had a bit of a narrow soundstage at first but are already opening up.  I haven't heard any grain, just smooth sound.
   
  Not too shabby at all...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Which siemens CCA's there are the Silver plate, Grey Plate and Aframe CCa's


 


  I did not examine that closely. Are there photographs online that show the differences you are referring to?
   
  Also came across this: http://www.jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/Portraits/ECC88/6922-EHX/index.htm


----------



## MrScary

I decided to do a little ebay on here instead of just putting them on ebay or posting on the for sale section

I have 4 Siemens and Halske CCa Chromes up for sale send me your best price for 2 I wont sell all 4 to someone unless the price is right.. They sound fantastic see my previous reviews 


Good luck


----------



## adydula

HK Sends check out post 1627...I posted my expercence on a matched set of EH 6922's I got for $30.
   
  Good tubes...less gain that the 6BZ7's...
   
  Alex


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





adydula said:


> HK Sends check out post 1627...I posted my expercence on a matched set of EH 6922's I got for $30.
> 
> Good tubes...less gain that the 6BZ7's...
> 
> Alex


 
  Thanks Alex!  I definitely agree with your assessment.  I am liking what I hear with the bass and treble extension (mine are the $30 tubes too).  I may not be hunting for older tubes too much more... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   




  -HK sends


----------



## adydula

I really hate to rock the NOS tube boat, but its highly over-rated!!
   
  I can feel the flames now!!
   
  I wish someone really, honestly can tell me scientifically how some tubes that are electrically the same just made here vs there really make them sound different in a measureable way...
   
  I know you can get great sound from new tubes, matched well....I just wish I had someone close to me so we could blindfold them and let me do the switching of tubes....
   
  Anyway I do not begrudge anyone spending their hard earned dollars to get great sound etc...its neat to watch and listen...
   
  Anyone wanting to send a pair of high dollar tubes for me to test....be glad to test, report and send them back...not lookng for freebies just the truth!!
   
  All the best!
  Alex


----------



## MrScary

adydula said:


> I really hate to rock the NOS tube boat, but its highly over-rated!!
> 
> I can feel the flames now!!
> 
> ...




Vintage tubes for the most part were made with much stricter tolerances as at that time tubes were required to be in almost everything from computers to radar. The art of making a vintage Mullard E88CC for example is lost
the people that made those tubes are long gone. Each tube has its own sound signature some of the best sounding tubes happen to be vintage tubes like it or not. Look at Tubeworld.com and you will get an idea of some of the
best tubes ever made. They are expensive because they are getting rare and hard to find and then some day will be gone... I have cheap tubes mid tier tubes and vintage tubes about 40 sets and the best sounding are 60's Vintage tubes.

This thread already has many people that have tested tubes and for the majority the vintage tubes sound best. Have you tested several vintage tubes?


----------



## Rope

Alex -
   
  I'm not certain why you think the flame wars would begin by stating your opinion concerning NOS tubes.
   
  As Scary elluded to, quality of materials, workmanship, tooling, manufacturing process, and necessity all play a role in the NOS tubes being of higher audio reproduction quality.  And the vast majority of NOS tubes were not manufactured with audio reproduction in mind.


----------



## HK_sends

I have been looking around for a sound that I like, not caring if it came from a lightbulb filament.  I have listened to a variety of NOS tubes that sound absolutely incredible and some that didn't impress me at all.  I am just surprised at how good the EH 6922 sound for being new tubes.  I also gave one last listen to my Gold Lion 6922 tubes before packing them up to ship off to a buyer and discovered that even their sound had improved and was closer to what I like.  So, if all these old tubes bite the big one, I can still be satisfied with the sound of some of the newly manufactured tubes.
   
  Still waiting on the CCa's to get in, of course... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## Benjamin6264

My curiosity got the best of me : I ended up buying a quad of Siemens CCa A Frames from eBay today.
   
  I really hope they're genuine; paid $325 for the lot.
   
  Will let you know of my impressions (or frustration) once they arrive.


----------



## WNBC

I would like to hear these tubes too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm down for a trip to Texas (MrScary) or Quebec (Benjamin6264) or maybe I'll hear the CCa at a meet one day.
  But seriously, I think it would be cool if somebody had a spare set for loan to people on this board.  
  I do believe the others when they say it is worth it.  I could choose to not believe them and all other the people on Ebay, Tubemonger, etc. when they leave feedback on the various sites. 
  My price point is about $100 for a pair so while a believer I have my own limits.  I may one day pull the trigger on the one day but me and my IEC 6DJ8s are doing just fine.
   
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> I really hate to rock the NOS tube boat, but its highly over-rated!!
> I can feel the flames now!!
> I wish someone really, honestly can tell me scientifically how some tubes that are electrically the same just made here vs there really make them sound different in a measureable way...
> I know you can get great sound from new tubes, matched well....I just wish I had someone close to me so we could blindfold them and let me do the switching of tubes....
> ...


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> My curiosity got the best of me : I ended up buying a quad of Siemens CCa A Frames from eBay today.
> 
> I really hope they're genuine; paid $325 for the lot.
> 
> Will let you know of my impressions (or frustration) once they arrive.




dude I would have sold you the A frames much cheaper I have 4 should have asked me


----------



## obazavil

Updated my post regarding the Mullards I got from tubemonger.
  
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> On tubemonger I bought the $125 Mullards... but they send me the Mullards without logo... just be aware of that for future buyers...
> 
> Ok... tubemonger contacted me, and seems that I was mistaken.
> 
> ...


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> dude I would have sold you the A frames much cheaper I have 4 should have asked me


 

 Gah, that's a shame. Didn't know you had some up for sale. However, I might return them if they're not genuine or if test results are wrong. Lemme know how much you were looking for.


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> Gah, that's a shame. Didn't know you had some up for sale. However, I might return them if they're not genuine or if test results are wrong. Lemme know how much you were looking for.




All my tubes are up for sale accept for the CCa Grey plates


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> All my tubes are up for sale accept for the CCa Grey plates


 

 I would like to purchase the CCa Grey plates, or the gray plates.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I don't want any shiny crap on the insides.


----------



## Mavwong

Thought I would offer some facts here from my own experience. Some tube just will have hums due to variation of quality. Try put ur finger on top of the humming tube and it will go away, I'm surprise to find that out, the hum is due to microphonic. We use headphone there isn't any vibration by acoustic so where does it comes from? It's from the transformer so using tuning feet for the amp won't help. So here I suggest Shiit place some anti vibration mount to the transformer to reduce such occurrence. 

Mav






mrscary said:


> jamato8 said:
> 
> 
> > Quote:
> ...


----------



## MrScary

mavwong said:


> Thought I would offer some facts here from my own experience. Some tube just will have hums due to variation of quality. Try put ur finger on top of the humming tube and it will go away, I'm surprise to find that out, the hum is due to microphonic. We use headphone there isn't any vibration by acoustic so where does it comes from? It's from the transformer so using tuning feet for the amp won't help. So here I suggest Shiit place some anti vibration mount to the transformer to reduce such occurrence.
> 
> Mav




NO the Humm doesnt go away on the tubes I have that humm putting my finger on them just burns them


----------



## hp300plus

I have two questions please:
   
  1.) I recall someone on here mentioned a tool to quickly remove the tubes (looked like a rubber grip that covered the tube).  Can't find that post, but am looking to order a set.  Anyone know where to get them?  I went to thetubestore.com and didn't see anything there (or may have missed it).
   
  2.) Anyone know of any manufacturers that have tube storage cases/displays?  Have a growing personal collection and would like to have a nice case to store them in and/or display them.  
   
  Thanks!


----------



## xxhaxx

Here is the link to the tube glove
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=072-899&FTR=tube%20glove


----------



## Mavwong

Looks like your problem is genuine. But microphonic problem do exist in a few of my tube, even those expansive mullard.
   
  So far few of the tube type I tried, take note I didn't spend a lot of time burning in the tube. My setup is moded Maverick audio D1 with western elec JW 396A as tube out -> LYR -> HD600/HD800/T1/LCD2/Rudistor MD1
   
  1) 6BZ7 - GE from Shiit (US?): dynamic, good separation but just plain, not musical. (good for source)
              - GE from Canada (ebay): better than the US version, fuller sounding and better separation. 
               - Sylvania USA: As good as GE from Canada (have not audit enough to make good conclusion)
   
  2) 6922 Philips JAN USA (green label and blue label): Sound similar to GE canada 6BZ7 but warmer sounding, more musical, little bit more detail.
   
  3) E88CC Mullard: tad better in all aspect than 6BZ7 especially the mid is sweet, but not as dynamic. Some pp may not like it as it really "soft" sounding compare to good dynamic tube.
   
  4) E188CC RTC (from Mullard but solid disk getter): Sound char is similar to E88CC mullard but more dynamic and better separation and depth (so called the 3D sounding here). I expect more from this tube but sadly, it's not the holy grill.
   
  5) E188CC Mullard: this is another steps better than the E188CC RTC. Better bass and separation, wide staging, full sounding, and the mid is airy/sweet. Take note this tube is not as "soft" as the usual Mullard, I can sense it has impact thus dynamic is not a issue.
   
  6) E88CC Philips miniwatt SQ: surprisingly it sound similar to the E188CC Mullard but at a lower price. construction is similar to E188CC Mullard as well.
   
  More tube to come.....


----------



## hp300plus

Many thanks!


----------



## MrScary

mavwong said:


> Looks like your problem is genuine. But microphonic problem do exist in a few of my tube, even those expansive mullard.
> 
> So far few of the tube type I tried, take note I didn't spend a lot of time burning in the tube. My setup is moded Maverick audio D1 with western elec JW 396A as tube out -> LYR -> HD600/HD800/T1/LCD2/Rudistor MD1
> 
> ...




YOu should get some of the top ranked tubes man look at tubeworld.com and get an idea of the best sounding E88C/6DJB/6922 tubes I agree about the E88CC it is for someone that has a bright audio chain and wants to calm it d


----------



## BugleBoy

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> No takers? Alright, I guess I'll start.  As a caveat/disclaimer, I'm probably not the best with my jargon usage, and by no means do I have golden ears.  What I write here is purely subjective, and should be taken with a grain/bucket/dumptruck of salt.
> 
> *Tubes*: NOS Amperex USA 6922 gold-pin (orange print, PQ shield)
> 
> ...


 

 I have tube rolled Amperex PQ white label into my X-Cans V3...and have to say it blew the stock JAN/Phillips away. Bringing it very close to my Leben CS-300X which is saying something.
   
  I am sure the Amperex would work great with the Lyr too.


----------



## dmnc02

I have a pair of US Amperex PQ 6922 white label arriving on Friday, based on several strong reviews (including the Joe's Tube Lore on AudioAsylum). So far I have tried GE 6BZ7 from Schiit, Electro-Harmonix 6922, cryo'd Reflector 6N23P-EV and cryo'd Genalex Gold Lion 6922, with the latter being by far my favorites in the Lyr.
  
  Quote: 





bugleboy said:


> I have tube rolled Amperex PQ white label into my X-Cans V3...and have to say it blew the stock JAN/Phillips away. Bringing it very close to my Leben CS-300X which is saying something.
> 
> I am sure the Amperex would work great with the Lyr too.


----------



## Mavwong

I have go through your list and of course tubeworld and Brent Jessee recording site. What else I can tried? I always like the mids to be sweet and tuby thus I keep hunting for E188CC instead of CCa. Trust me, E188CC is even harder to get. I have a pair of Siemens, Miniwatt dario and Sylvania E188CC coming in,  What's left for me to try is Siemens CCa, Valvo CCa and some telefunken. But wow, my expenditure is getting over and I need stop pretty soon else....
   
  I was hopping that Shiit does come out with a balance version of LYR and some of my quad purchase could be of use  May be Jason could give us some words on this???
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> YOu should get some of the top ranked tubes man look at tubeworld.com and get an idea of the best sounding E88C/6DJB/6922 tubes I agree about the E88CC it is for someone that has a bright audio chain and wants to calm it d


----------



## MrScary

mavwong said:


> I have go through your list and of course tubeworld and Brent Jessee recording site. What else I can tried? I always like the mids to be sweet and tuby thus I keep hunting for E188CC instead of CCa. Trust me, E188CC is even harder to get. I have a pair of Siemens, Miniwatt dario and Sylvania E188CC coming in,  What's left for me to try is Siemens CCa, Valvo CCa and some telefunken. But wow, my expenditure is getting over and I need stop pretty soon else....
> 
> I was hopping that Shiit does come out with a balance version of LYR and some of my quad purchase could be of use  May be Jason could give us some words on this???




All I can say is that Schiit will not be coming out with an amp that uses these tubes you can always sell them as I am now.. :evil:


----------



## Mavwong

no hurry to sell them, but if not 6922 what tube it is going to be? Or just SS.


----------



## MrScary

mavwong said:


> no hurry to sell them, but if not 6922 what tube it is going to be? Or just SS.




I know nothing hahahahaha


----------



## Kremer930

Something else coming from Schiit will allow people to use tubes. The tube variant is different to the Lyr and Valhalla and is a popular tube type. I can't say which type yet until Jason makes it public but let me just say that if you have enjoyed rolling tubes in the Lyr then you will love it just as much or more in one of the next Schiit toys. Awesome.


----------



## adydula

Ok I am the guy who said NOS tubes are highly overated....but..
   
  After 20 hours of playing with the stock 6BZ7's GE.
   
  I swapped out and put back in the EH 6922's .....golly gee these are better sounding to me immediately...the openess and transparency is just astounding...
  again for only $30...matched NOT gold pins....
   
  So NOS may be better sounding to many of you guys but for $30 this is hard to beat...
   
  try it!!
   
  U will like it!
   
  Alex


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Something else coming from Schiit will allow people to use tubes. The tube variant is different to the Lyr and Valhalla and is a popular tube type. I can't say which type yet until Jason makes it public but let me just say that if you have enjoyed rolling tubes in the Lyr then you will love it just as much or more in one of the next Schiit toys. Awesome.


 

  
  a DAC?


----------



## Misterrogers

Yep, not surprised. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Of course it's very subjective, but when your roll in some tubes (NOS or NEW) that are just better, you know it right away. I've had about 15 such 'moments'. I had an 'aahhh' moments most recently when I dropped in IEC Mullards, Telefunkens (1960s) and Siemens E88CC (1960s). I have some early 60s Siemens 'gray plates' that are so very sweet. dimensional, tight bass, sweet highs perfect mids. When I get my hands on a pair of MrScary's Cca's I'm sure they'll kick it up a notch - since I'm all in with the Siemens 'house' sound.
   
  It's interesting. We can kick these around scientifically all we want, do you really believe those EH 6922's sounded better because you wanted them to? Nope.


----------



## adydula

Been going back and forth with the GE 's and these EH 6922's...every thing I played for a solid two hours was just awesome..the imaging, the soundstage..the tone, the vocals, all those little things going on, percussion, the sound of the bass drum being hit...gosh it was soooooo awesome, tight, SLAM...the bass drum in DIDO's Burnin Love song in her Safe Trip Home cd...its just so much in control...hand claps....
   
  Kirk Whalums , For You CD...was like 'live'...
   
  Stevie Nix live performances was like your were in the audience.
   
  Rachal Yamagata's Happenstance....to die for.
   
  I did not want to stop listening...you get in a mood where u just skip over songs looking for that perfect material for your mood etc..well it all sounded great!! OMG.
   
  I hope these tubes just stay the same for a long time....but tubes do age....
   
  Its the best $30 I have spent on a set of tubes...something tells me I am going to buy another set soon to get them from the same lot etc...
   
  Ok back to reality!
   
  Alex
   
  Note: Just in case...did I mention I really like this Schitt Lyr!


----------



## MrScary

OK Im doing my mini Ebay again I have some tubes up for sale


Valvo ECC88 Red label vintage 60's -- Multidimensional sound were NOS put on about 100 hours
Mullard ECC88 set late 60's were NOS put on about 50 hours
Simens & Halske CCa A-Frames dimensional sounds early 60's were NOS put about 50 hours on them

PM me your best price for them I may sell them as a lot as well 


Good luck


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Ok I am the guy who said NOS tubes are highly overated....but..
> 
> After 20 hours of playing with the stock 6BZ7's GE.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Alex:

 Have you tried the new issue Genalex Gold Lions? A good step up from the EH 6922s, the downside, they ain't cheap.
   
  But with my HE-6s, I still prefer my GE or Sylvania 6BZ7s (the 20% more gain really helps).


----------



## adydula

Hello Mr Hero...
   
  No I havent considered the genalux gold lions ...but you have me thinking.
   
  I found the gain difference between the 6922's and 6BZ7's real, but with the LCD2's the gain difference with the LCD2's in my experience is not really an issue or do you actually need the extra gain unless you want your ears blown off your head!! (lol).
   
  Lets see who sells these lions el cheopo??
   
  Alex


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Hello Mr Hero...
> 
> No I havent considered the genalux gold lions ...but you have me thinking.
> 
> ...


 

 I agree that with the LCD-2s, the extra gain isn't a real factor, but it does certainly come into play with the HE-6s.
   
  Tough finding them cheap, but there are several good sources (thetubestore.com for one) that has them.


----------



## Benjamin6264

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Hello Mr Hero...
> 
> No I havent considered the genalux gold lions ...but you have me thinking.
> 
> ...


 

 If you want, I still have 1 Genalex Gold Lion. I bought two from Cryoset (cryo-treated), but accidentally dropped one. I'll sell it to you for a reasonable price, and then you just have to buy 1, 
   
  Also have plenty of other tubes I'm looking to sell, Lemme know if you're interested.


----------



## MrScary

benjamin6264 said:


> If you want, I still have 1 Genalex Gold Lion. I bought two from Cryoset (cryo-treated), but accidentally dropped one. I'll sell it to you for a reasonable price, and then you just have to buy 1,
> 
> Also have plenty of other tubes I'm looking to sell, Lemme know if you're interested.




GL's icky tubes great for midrange and the fact you can actually find them is one plus but they were the first tubes I sold off..


----------



## wuwhere

Some of the NOS tubes' pins can get oxidized from age/environment. I suggest you clean them first before using them.


----------



## milosolo

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Have you tried the new issue Genalex Gold Lions? A good step up from the EH 6922s, the downside, they ain't cheap.
> 
> But with my HE-6s, I still prefer my GE or Sylvania 6BZ7s (the 20% more gain really helps).


 

 Hmm... I might have to look into the Gold Lions. The 6Bz7's and Amperex Orange Globe are nice but I'd like something more resolving at the expense of gain if necessary. Gain is not the issue.


----------



## Kremer930

tkteo said:


> a DAC?




From memory Jason has said that he didn't think that tubes are the best match for use within Dacs.


----------



## tkteo

Yes you are right, my bad.


----------



## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> From memory Jason has said that he didn't think that tubes are the best match for use within Dacs.




I personally disagree with Jason about tubes and Dacs having a tube in your Dac may reduce S/N ratio but it allows you to tailor your Dac's sound something you will not be able to do with the Schiit Dac's its either you like it or not


----------



## adydula

I would still like my Amp, Dac, and transducers be totally neutral to allow us to hear the source material as it was recorded and mastered.
   
  I know there are so many variables and these keeps lots of us busy searching for our personal Holy grails...
   
  The tube rolling thread has brought great intrest to me in that I am looking for the tube that is the most neutral, open and transparent,
   
  Its fine to be able to change out a tube etc,,in whatever component to tune the sound to your liking....but would'nt it be great to have or know that all your stuff is as
  neutral as possible...and go from there...
   
  I dont care if its tubes, opamps, discrete or not discrete, NOS or new,,,,whatever the flatest freq curve and colorless output is what I want.
   
  Tuning after this baseline to me is then playtime...or just listen to really great source material.
   
  Aint technology fun!
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## MrScary

adydula said:


> I would still like my Amp, Dac, and transducers be totally neutral to allow us to hear the source material as it was recorded and mastered.
> 
> I know there are so many variables and these keeps lots of us busy searching for our personal Holy grails...
> 
> ...




It doesn't matter dude a DAC without a tube still colors your sound the discrete portion of the DAC has a sound signature so you are not hearing the sound as it was intended every component in your system colors the sound from source to headphone.
The idea is to tune the system to what you want it to sound like.. changing a tube in an amp colors the sound so I understand your point but it doesn't apply in sound every amp every DAC every headphohne has a color


----------



## Mavwong

Siemens E188CC came in today, update here.
   
  So far few of the tube type I tried, take note I didn't spend a lot of time burning in the tube. My setup is moded Maverick audio D1 with western elec JW 396A as tube out -> LYR -> HD600/HD800/T1/LCD2/Rudistor MD1
   
  1) 6BZ7 - GE from Shiit (US?): dynamic, good separation but just plain, not musical. (good for source)
              - GE from Canada (ebay): better than the US version, fuller sounding and better separation. 
               - Sylvania USA: As good as GE from Canada (have not audit enough to make good conclusion)
   
  2) 6922 Philips JAN USA (green label and blue label): Sound similar to GE canada 6BZ7 but warmer sounding, more musical, little bit more detail.
   
  3) E88CC Mullard: tad better in all aspect than 6BZ7 especially the mid is sweet, but not as dynamic. Some pp may not like it as it really "soft" sounding compare to good dynamic tube.
   
  4) E188CC RTC (from Mullard but solid disk getter): Sound char is similar to E88CC mullard but more dynamic and better separation and depth (so called the 3D sounding here). I expect more from this tube but sadly, it's not the holy grill.
   
  5) E188CC Mullard: this is another steps better than the E188CC RTC. Better bass and separation, wide staging, full sounding, and the mid is airy/sweet. Take note this tube is not as "soft" as the usual Mullard, I can sense it has impact thus dynamic is not a issue.
   
  6) E88CC Philips miniwatt SQ: surprisingly it sound similar to the E188CC Mullard but at a lower price. construction is similar to E188CC Mullard as well.
   
  7) E188CC Siemens A frame: As good as miniwatt SQ, but lesser depth and stage, not as musical.
   
  So far the review in Brent Jessee recording spot on. British made tube suits me more than German and US. My prefered tube still E88CC philips mini watt SQ and it's more than half as cheap compare to Siemens and Mullard E188CC. If you like Mullard, ah hem.... you know what's better value.


----------



## MrScary

mavwong said:


> Siemens E188CC came in today, update here.
> 
> So far few of the tube type I tried, take note I didn't spend a lot of time burning in the tube. My setup is moded Maverick audio D1 with western elec JW 396A as tube out -> LYR -> HD600/HD800/T1/LCD2/Rudistor MD1
> 
> ...




Interesting I find the British tubes to not have much of a 3d sound stage such as the Simens & Halske CCa's either chrome or grey plate


----------



## dmnc02

I have now been listening for a few hours to a nicely matched pair of 1960 US Amperex PQ 6922 (white label, gold pins, D getters). They replaced the Genalex Gold Lion 6922 in my Lyr.
   
  I was frankly not expecting that a vintage tube would have been an improvement over the GL, since it is difficult for me to imagine why a tube reissued specifically for audio applications with modern production techniques and at a premium price point would underperform a vintage tube. In fact, I liked the GL better than the other vintage tubes I had tried (GE 6BZ7 and Reflector 6N23P-EV). However, the Amperex appears to be the better tube. It has an overall airier presentation than the GL with more apparent detail (especially in the highs), without sacrificing anything in terms of musicality. The music just sounds more alive. The GL do appear somewhat romantic by comparison.
   
  The only small downside of the Amperex I have noticed is that they are more microphonic: I can hear ringing if I tap the amp with no music playing, although I cannot notice this with music playing. I might try some tube dampers to see if they bring any improvements (I have several lying around from the tubed preamp and amp in my speaker system).
   
 ​


----------



## adydula

MrScary...you  missed the point.
   
  Understand they all can contribute to coloring the sound etc...
   
  Its that I wish they didnt!
   
  I said that  "I would still like my Amp, Dac, and transducers be totally neutral...."
   
  Yes its not a perfect world...
   
  All the best 'dude'
   
  Alex


----------



## MrScary

adydula said:


> MrScary...you  missed the point.
> 
> Understand they all can contribute to coloring the sound etc...
> 
> ...




I got your point but I don't think you would want a totally neutral setup you then are the victim of some of the lousy recordings that are made. I play Guitar in a band and when we record we can mix down a million different ways sadly most music
is not always heaphone friendly and has been mixed down for speakers. I agree with you that a natural sound is the best but you will have to go see the band in concert to get an idea of what there neutral sound is..


----------



## adydula

Mr Scary...its all an illusion..
   
  If you can get your 'stuff', system, parts, pieces, chain etc as close to a flat freq across the spectrum...then you have a baseline to start with.
   
  I have 5-6 different recordings of songs...all sound different......and some sound much better than the others...
   
  Having a neutral systems as possible helps me to tell the good and the bad or not so good...
   
  Some folks might start tuning with stuff, tubes, etc with a recording that is lousy and never get there or start with something is great but not to their liking and assume all things from
  that point forward would be neutral..
   
  Each and every time i go to a concert...I really listen and then go back home and say...gosh I thought what I had was really good...well not compared to really being there..
   
  Its an illusion but hey its fun and its still can sound really great....
   
  If you get moved at a concert, and get moved at home thats even greater  though they are not really the same....
   
  If changing a tube out, causes this illusion to get closer to reality thats even greater to me..and it has!!
   
  Great pastime eh!
   
   
  The standard back in my 'youth' was very simple LIVE vs MY Living Room....never even got close but thought so a few times, lol....the more beer I drank the closer I got..!!
   
  Alex


----------



## MrScary

adydula said:


> Mr Scary...its all an illusion..
> 
> If you can get your 'stuff', system, parts, pieces, chain etc as close to a flat freq across the spectrum...then you have a baseline to start with.
> 
> ...




hahaha true


----------



## Mavwong

Have u tried mini watt sq or e188cc? 



mrscary said:


> Interesting I find the British tubes to not have much of a 3d sound stage such as the Simens & Halske CCa's either chrome or grey plate


----------



## MrScary

mavwong said:


> Have u tried mini watt sq or e188cc?




No thanks I will stay with my Simens &Halske grey plates Im not rolling any more tubes


----------



## LuzArt

Mr Scary - I recently picked up some 1966 Philips SQ's and a pair of CCA's.  I haven't given the CCA's a good run yet, the SQ's are blowing me away! By far and away the best bass I've heard from the Lyr, extended but slightly polite tops and lush mids.  The Schiit supplied GE's were my preferred tube till last week - the tops are extended but more harsh than the SQ's.  I've listed my other tubes, there's just no comparison.  Keeping the GE's and JAN 6922's as a reminder of the better cheaper tubes.
   
  Ben


----------



## MrScary

luzart said:


> Mr Scary - I recently picked up some 1966 Philips SQ's and a pair of CCA's.  I haven't given the CCA's a good run yet, the SQ's are blowing me away! By far and away the best bass I've heard from the Lyr, extended but slightly polite tops and lush mids.  The Schiit supplied GE's were my preferred tube till last week - the tops are extended but more harsh than the SQ's.  I've listed my other tubes, there's just no comparison.  Keeping the GE's and JAN 6922's as a reminder of the better cheaper tubes.
> 
> Ben




Cant beat the Vntage tubes I have said it before ... What CCa's did you get? Simens,.Valvos ?


----------



## LuzArt

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Cant beat the Vntage tubes I have said it before ... What CCa's did you get? Simens,.Valvos ?


 

 Siemens.  They're not NOS but measured very good.  The seller is a renown tube guru down here   He builds gear and doesn't deal in cr*p tubes. 
   
  Interesting your experience with CCA's is a more 3D sound stage than others.  Again I'll have to give them a good run but I actually found the GE's had a slight 3Dness to them that I'd not experienced in all the other newer tubes.  
   
  Cheers
  Ben


----------



## MrScary

luzart said:


> Siemens.  They're not NOS but measured very good.  The seller is a renown tube guru down here   He builds gear and doesn't deal in cr*p tubes.
> 
> Interesting your experience with CCA's is a more 3D sound stage than others.  Again I'll have to give them a good run but I actually found the GE's had a slight 3Dness to them that I'd not experienced in all the other newer tubes.
> 
> ...




Again I ask what Siemens CCa's did you get there are many different varieties


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> Again I ask what Siemens CCa's did you get there are many different varieties




If they are Aframes then you wont get the 3d sound of the CCa Siemens and Halske chrome and Grey plates


----------



## LuzArt

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> If they are Aframes then you wont get the 3d sound of the CCa Siemens and Halske chrome and Grey plates


 


  They appear to be grey plates.  
   
  As I mentioned, I can't comment on their 3D-ness as I've not given them a good run, I'm still using the Philip's SQ's.  Will give the Siemens a go today and see how they fare.


----------



## WNBC

Gotta a Scary good deal on a pair of Siemens CCa 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  What a tube.  Definitely a game changer and I had good tubes already (IEC Mullards, Bugle Boys, Valvo, 6BZ7, Mullard 6DJ8, Cryoset 6N23P, Gold Lions, etc.).  
  The CCa require a little more gain than my other tubes but not an issue with the Lyr.  
  My previous tube purchases ranged from $8-100/pair.  I had a CV2493 that was around $125/pair but returned them due to hum.  
  As mentioned by others, the imaging, soundstage, and inner detail of the CCa is nothing short of terrific.  The resolution doesn't come at a cost of smoothness or musicality.
  Watch out though, I'm hearing more recording flaws in my music, so these tubes are a little less forgiving.
  Forward and transparent.  The low end is there and accurate, the best I've heard in a tube.  Pleasant surprise because I wasn't expecting the bass to be better than say the Mullards.
  Additionally, this tube is more neutral in tone than say the Mullard 6DJ8/ECC88, at least the ones I have.  This is a plus for those of us with warm headphones and DACs.  
  There's a little more midrange meat to my IEC Mullards but I'm not missing it with these CCa's because everything else is great and the CCa still have fantastic mids.   
   
  So bottom line, if I had to do it over again knowing what I know now would I go for these CCa first and call it a day?  Probably but only if I got a Scary good deal. 
  One needs to hear other tubes to find out what is going to best in their own system because it may not be the CCa.  The CCa are synergizing well in my system but maybe not yours.
  I don't regret one tube purchase so rolling is something that's fun if you're into trying subtle and different sonic signatures.  I'm keeping all of my tubes for now.


----------



## sferic

One of my Genelex Gold Lions is going bad, every 10 or 15 min produces a fuzzy noise. Anyone knows a good source for a replacement let me know please. Thanks.


----------



## jms91

Sferic, Is the amp humming like some have been complaining about in the thread or is the tubes themselves that are producing the noise? I have a pair of Gold Lions and the amp itself just recently started humming like others have been describing. I still can't tell if its the amp or the tubes...


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Gotta a Scary good deal on a pair of Siemens CCa
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Glad you like them bro yeah the CCa's are special so sad there is no new tubes that are comparable.


----------



## perfect-pitch

While writing these words i am enjoying my new pair of Mullard CV2492 that i got from HK sends. I like them more than my so far favorite cryoed 6n23p. I would say that they have the deepest bass and very clean highs so far.
The tubes i got from HK sends are all very good. I appriciate doing business with HK sends.Thanks a lot!!!
Maybe someone wants to get rid of some Siemens CCA's in the future.

Musically regards from germany,

perfect-pitch


----------



## WNBC

We get all of our CCa from your Ebay guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> While writing these words i am enjoying my new pair of Mullard CV2492 that i got from HK sends. I like them more than my so far favorite cryoed 6n23p. I would say that they have the deepest bass and very clean highs so far.
> The tubes i got from HK sends are all very good. I appriciate doing business with HK sends.Thanks a lot!!!
> *Maybe someone wants to get rid of some Siemens CCA's in the future.*
> 
> ...


----------



## perfect-pitch

Yes, i know and we got it back from you fully burned in


----------



## sferic

No, I don't have any humming. It's an intermittent sound like, maybe, some one is rubbing fabric against your ear. I'm sure it's the tube because first it was the right channel, then I switched 'em and it moved to the left. Not super annoying but you know how people like us are. The Lyr has been trouble free for me.


----------



## sferic

Although I just swapped out for my Cryoset 6H23N's and with the Rev 2 LCD 2's I got as a replacement I'm liking them a lot again. The GL's bring out crystalline highs, but are less full on the bass. The rev 2's have more highs, so now the Cryosets sound more balanced. It just goes to show everything is relative.


----------



## milosolo

Okay, so for me anyway tubes become confusing pretty fast. It seems the consensus is that the Siemens & Halske CCa Grey plates ca. the 1960's are pretty much the best you can do for the Lyr. My question is what price range should I expect to pay for them? And, what are reliable sources for these? TIA (MrScary).


----------



## MrScary

milosolo said:


> Okay, so for me anyway tubes become confusing pretty fast. It seems the consensus is that the Siemens & Halske CCa Grey plates ca. the 1960's are pretty much the best you can do for the Lyr. My question is what price range should I expect to pay for them? And, what are reliable sources for these? TIA (MrScary).




Finding a pair CCa siemens & Halske Grey plates is like finding a needle in a haystack I have two pairs and it took me almost 6 months to track them down. Your better bet is to get the CCa simens & Halske chrome plates they sound the same as the Grey they are just 
made later in the 60's around 68... You can find them on ebay that is about the only place I have found them for Grey Plates expect to pay 400.00 or more a set for the Chromes they go for anywhere between 250 - 350. YOu can also try to get some CCa AFrames they have a tridemsional sound
just not as extreme as the CCa Grey plates or CCa Chrome. 


I have a set of CCa Simens & Halske Aframes if anyone is interested I will let them go for 150.00
PM me if you are interested.


----------



## LuzArt

Gave my CCa's another run tonight, still not wowing me.  Compared to the Philips SQ miniwatts they don't quite have the mid range I like. The CCa's tops and fine detail are very close to the Philips, and while the bass is good it's still lacking some.  Imaging seems very similar but the overall 'togetherness' goes to the Philips IMO.  But vintage is definately the way to go, a shame they can't nail production today to match yesterday.
   
  Ben


----------



## WNBC

That's great there is another fine tube for the Lyr.  Lots of excellent choices.
  We may have to call MrScary out of rolling retirement to get another opinion them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





luzart said:


> Gave my CCa's another run tonight, still not wowing me.  Compared to the Philips SQ miniwatts they don't quite have the mid range I like. The CCa's tops and fine detail are very close to the Philips, and while the bass is good it's still lacking some.  Imaging seems very similar but the overall 'togetherness' goes to the Philips IMO.  But vintage is definately the way to go, a shame they can't nail production today to match yesterday.
> 
> Ben


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> That's great there is another fine tube for the Lyr.  Lots of excellent choices.
> We may have to call MrScary out of rolling retirement to get another opinion them




hahaha no Im fully retired Im happy with the CCa's for the Lyr and Im focusing more on Guitar amp tubes now I have a new Amp Head coming in


----------



## HK_sends

I wonder if I am going to get flamed for saying this, but I'm not as enamoured with the CCa's as I thought I would be.  While I am wow'd by the three dimentional staging (we're talking concert hall here), the bass extension leaves me a bit underwhelmed.  Of course, I can add some bass with EQ, but I was hoping to avoid that.  I have about two hours on both sets of tubes.  Please tell me, does their sound expand at all, does the bass improve?
   
  Inquiring minds,
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I wonder if I am going to get flamed for sayting this, but I'm not as enamoured with the CCa's as I thought I would be.  While I am wow'd by the three dimentional staging (we're talking concert hall here), the bass extension leaves me a bit underwhelmed.  Of course, I can add some bass with EQ, but I was hoping to avoid that.  I have about two hours on both sets of tubes.  Please tell me, does their sound expand at all, does the bass improve?
> 
> Inquiring minds,
> -HK sends




The Bass on the CCa's is a bit less than other tubes but is more than made up for by the 3d imaging if you dont like them I will buy them for you and resell them but Bass on the CCa's will improve some are they NOS tubes? Are they grey plates or Chrome plates


----------



## HK_sends

NOS grey plate...


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> NOS grey plate...




Yeah I dont know your audio chain but with me my DAC is a tube DAC with opamps so I use an OPA627 dual pair mated to my Mullard tube for my DAC it gives me awesome bass for the CCa's the Bass will get better they take along time to burn in
I have a set of A-frames that hummed for the first 100 hours then it went away hahaha


----------



## HK_sends

I've been lucky and haven't had any humming tubes (yet).  I just run a Cowon J3 (with no EQ) into my Lyr, then to my LCD-2s.  If the bass appears to improve over time, then I may just hold on to these and sell most everything else.
   





  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey all. It's been a bit quite around here lately - I suspect many of us have either found 'our' tube, or we're licking our financial wounds from this addiction 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Thought I'd chime in on my recent adventures, and call out one particular tube that I'm very impressed with. First, those that are well known and spoken of:
   
  IEC Mullard: Very nice. Not much to add to the previous comments. Fine, articulate and lively. Nice.
  Siemens & Halske CCa Silver Shield: Thanks for these MrScary! Very, very nice. Tri-dimensional, great inner detail, very strong in most every category (a tad soft on bass).
  Bugle Boy '68 Large 'O' Getter: All BB's are nice, but I really like these. Toasty, great extension top to bottom, good slam. I have one old BB 'D' getter I'm trying to match, but these are the best BB's so far.
   
  But the tube that I'm most enjoying - Lorenz '60s PCC88 Gray Shield: Wow. This tube is in the Telefunken/Siemens CCa class (IMO). Great extension (top to bottom), sound stage (slightly less than S&H CCa but very large). Very balanced, neutral and dynamic. But this tube has a tight, tight bottom. If you actually enjoy distinguishing those very low notes, this tube is sweet. Listening to Donald Fagan Morph the Cat Reprise with these tubes is incredible. If you're not familiar with that track, it has a powerful bass line that anchors the entire tune. Other tubes have the slam and rumble, but they get a bit sloppy in reproducing the lowest notes. Most run out of steam. Not this Lorenz.
   
  Anyway at $50 per at tube mongers, I consider this tube a steal. Almost so much that I didn't want to post this till I bought my backup pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Be gentle.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Hey all. It's been a bit quite around here lately - I suspect many of us have either found 'our' tube, or we're licking our financial wounds from this addiction
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Since I will be putting most of my tubes up for sale when I get back next week from a business trip, this interests me.  Would you say the sound is like the CCa's but with bass?  A little less sound stage doesn't bother me.
   
  Inquiring minds...
  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

I'd say they share many of the same qualities - as do most West Germany NOS gray plate tubes. Comparing directly with an S&H CCa, I'd say they have very slightly less mass with bass, but more resolve and articulation. Mids and highs are pretty close and it has very slightly less bloom. In addition to a more articulate bass, it has slightly more inner detail. Happiness is rolling between these two. When you get a chance, would you fire me a list of what you have that you plan to sell? Thanks!


----------



## adydula

Morph The Cat...one of my all time favorites....listening to the reprise right now with my el cheopo GE 6BZ7's and the Lyr....the bass line in this is AWESOME...with these tubes its a GROWL and really nice narley sound...no issue hearing this bass undercurrent etc....solid, tight slam...WOW this is GOOD!.
   
  Its bass that grabs you!!
   
  The Lyr cranked up LOUD is really a treat to listen to ..no lack of power to push the cans.....
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


misterrogers said:


> I'd say they share many of the same qualities - as do most West Germany NOS gray plate tubes. Comparing directly with an S&H CCa, I'd say they have very slightly less mass with bass, but more resolve and articulation. Mids and highs are pretty close and it has very slightly less bloom. In addition to a more articulate bass, it has slightly more inner detail. Happiness is rolling between these two. When you get a chance, would you fire me a list of what you have that you plan to sell? Thanks!


 
  I can do that, however it will be next Sunday before I am able.  I am packing for a week business trip.
  I'll send you a list when I get back.
   
  Cheers!
  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Yep, that Fagen laid down some awe Schiit


----------



## adydula

Play the first track on this one and tell me how good the drum sounds in the background...and the vocal quality...
   

  Alex


----------



## Misterrogers

Hmmm, don't have any Tom Jones in my library. I'll have to hunt it down.


----------



## milosolo

These are just the qualities I'm looking for as an improvement over the Orange Globes I have now. I think I will try a set.
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I'd say they share many of the same qualities - as do most West Germany NOS gray plate tubes. Comparing directly with an S&H CCa, I'd say they have very slightly less mass with bass, but more resolve and articulation. Mids and highs are pretty close and it has very slightly less bloom. In addition to a more articulate bass, it has slightly more inner detail. Happiness is rolling between these two. When you get a chance, would you fire me a list of what you have that you plan to sell? Thanks!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Play the first track on this one and tell me how good the drum sounds in the background...and the vocal quality...
> 
> 
> Alex


 


  Can you hear the barely perceptible cymbals in the background of the first track?
  At first I thought it was noise but its actually a cymbal that is very lightly tap or brush and
  gets overshadowed by Tom Jones' voice.


----------



## Kremer930

Once your get a set could you possibly compare them briefly to your orange globes?  My orange globe amperex/mullards are still my favourites although I havent bought any new toys for the Lyr in quite a while thanks to purchases of an Onkyo dock and the impending Bifrost.  Thanks.
  
  Quote: 





milosolo said:


> These are just the qualities I'm looking for as an improvement over the Orange Globes I have now. I think I will try a set.


----------



## obazavil

misterrogers said:


> I'd say they share many of the same qualities - as do most West Germany NOS gray plate tubes. Comparing directly with an S&H CCa, I'd say they have very slightly less mass with bass, but more resolve and articulation. Mids and highs are pretty close and it has very slightly less bloom. In addition to a more articulate bass, it has slightly more inner detail. Happiness is rolling between these two. When you get a chance, would you fire me a list of what you have that you plan to sell? Thanks!




how about the 3d compared against the s&h cca?


----------



## Misterrogers

Slightly less - but still quite dimensional.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> I can do that, however it will be next Sunday before I am able.  I am packing for a week business trip.
> I'll send you a list when I get back.
> 
> ...


 


 I'd also be interested to see what you have HK. Shoot me a PM if you don't mind shipping to Australia.


----------



## MrScary

Here's my last chance for someone to pick these up before they go on ebay

Siemens&Halske CCa Aframes early 60's sound tridimensional listed in the top tubes to get on tubeworld.com if ya want them I will sell them to a Head-fi member for 150.00 they are NOS with about 30 hours of burnin on them
they are going for 300.00 and up on ebay so let me know soon.


scary out


----------



## WNBC

MrScary's tubes are Scary good, discounted, and none of that Ebay hum and tube roulette.  If I didn't have so many tubes this A-frames would be good back up to my chrome plates.  
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Here's my last chance for someone to pick these up before they go on ebay
> 
> Siemens&Halske CCa Aframes early 60's sound tridimensional listed in the top tubes to get on tubeworld.com if ya want them I will sell them to a Head-fi member for 150.00 they are NOS with about 30 hours of burnin on them
> they are going for 300.00 and up on ebay so let me know soon.





> scary out


----------



## adydula

wuwhere...
   
  Can you hear the barely perceptible cymbals in the background of the first track? 
  Yes! I hear them! lots of things going on here in this cd...very subtle things like these make for good test tracks and this cd
  by Tom Jones is excellent....he is much older now, but I was really pleasantly surprised to find our about this gem.
   
  The second track is a bit rockish but you can hear the depth of the soundstage in the drums and keyboard..listen to the keyboards in the background.
   
  Listen to the tone of the bass drum on track three "Did Trouble Me", and the tamborine...the tone of the bass drum is so 'correct' and nice like it has a personality of all its own...
   
  Nobodys Fault but Mine..track 8 is the *BEST*, listen to this one..absolutely stunning...the bass drum here is mic'd so well along with the timbre on the hig hats!!..
   
  Using the 6B7Z's right now...sweet..
   
  All the best..
  Alex


----------



## MrScary

Well the Simens & Halske A-Frames sold so scary now has no more CCa's for sale

I have a set of Valvo E88CC and a Mullard NOS set of E88CC's that I will let go for 100.00 + shipping as as 2 pair don't dont wait if ya want this deal

Valvo E88CC vintage early 60's wonderful dimensional sound my 3rd favorite tube
Mullard E88CC vintage mid 60's what can you say they are great tubes from bass to top end..


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I'd also be interested to see what you have HK. Shoot me a PM if you don't mind shipping to Australia.


 
  I will, but I don't get back from my trip until the end of the week...
   




  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> Well the Simens & Halske A-Frames sold so scary now has no more CCa's for sale
> 
> I have a set of Valvo E88CC and a Mullard NOS set of E88CC's that I will let go for 100.00 + shipping as as 2 pair don't dont wait if ya want this deal
> 
> ...




Sold


----------



## milosolo

I knew all those vintage tubes would be a slow sell... I think some folks are very lucky for such a great deal. Enjoy!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





milosolo said:


> I knew all those vintage tubes would be a slow sell... I think some folks are very lucky for such a great deal. Enjoy!


 
  The deals aren't quite done.  Just be patient...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Benjamin6264

Hey guys,
   
  I'm thinking of selling most of my tubes; I feel that I don't need as many as I currently have and that they should profit other Head-Fiers instead of just sitting around.
   
  Here's a list of all the tubes I'm considering to sell. They are all NOS or a few hours short from NOS, and I have at least 1 pair or more of each unless specified otherwise:
   
  - Amperex Orange Globe
  - Amperex Orange Globe (A-Frame)
  - Amperex Bugle Boy
  - Amperex PQ
   
  - Valvo E88CC
  - Siemens E88CC
  - Mullard CV2492
   
  - Brimar ECC88
  - Brimar E88CC
   
  - Cryoset Reflector 6N23P
  - Cryoset Genalex Gold Lion (just 1)
   
  - JJ E88CC
  - Voskhod 6N23P
  - Voskhod 6N1P-EV
   
  I also have 4 Siemens CCa A-Frames and 5 Valvo CCa coming soon, and some of them will have to go too.
   
  Send me a PM if you're interested. Throw me an offer, and feel free to ask for more info or pictures. I might post in the Trade forum too, but I thought of giving you guys priority.
   
  I'm not in a rush to sell anything, so please no lowballing.


----------



## xxhaxx

Do I need more tubes?????


----------



## MacedonianHero

So I'd strongly recommend the Matsushista 6922s (made in Japan on Mullard tooling):
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
   
  Not too bad a price ($80 per pair). What amazes me about these so far is the well defined and impactful/deep bass. The mids are great and the treble nice and clean. Very natural tubes IMO and so far, they're keepers.


----------



## MrScary

macedonianhero said:


> So I'd strongly recommend the Matsushista 6922s (made in Japan on Mullard tooling):
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
> 
> Not too bad a price ($80 per pair). What amazes me about these so far is the well defined and impactful/deep bass. The mids are great and the treble nice and clean. Very natural tubes IMO and so far, they're keepers.




haha I was just about to sell my pair


----------



## MrScary

For sale

Cryoset 6N23P 
 Matsushista 6922s (made in Japan on Mullard tooling)
Brimar CV2492 Vintage 1960's

Will sell all for 100.00 or best offer


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> For sale
> 
> Cryoset 6N23P
> Matsushista 6922s (made in Japan on Mullard tooling)
> ...


 

 PM'ed


----------



## MrScary

xxhaxx said:


> PM'ed




sold


----------



## MrScary

removed tubes for sale selling on ebay


----------



## Ooztuncer

Hello - I am planning to buy the lyr for my lcd-2's, but have a question: what type of tubes can be used in lyr?
   
  I have gold lion kt66, amperex usn cep 6922, valvo e80cc and siemens ecc801s - would any of it compatible with the lyr?
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## flu_fighter

Quote: 





> Only the 6922s that are in your list can be used in the lyr
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ooztuncer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...


----------



## WNBC

*From Schiit Website:* "Lyr ships with either new-production JJ ECC88 tubes or NOS GE 6BZ7 tubes, but feel free to substitute any 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 6BZ7, CV2492, CV2493, or 6N1Ptype tube, new or old, American or Russian or Chinese. The ability to use different tubes lets you tune the overall sound signature of Lyr to your specific needs."
   
  Your Amperex 6922 are good to go
  
  Quote: 





ooztuncer said:


> Hello - I am planning to buy the lyr for my lcd-2's, but have a question: what type of tubes can be used in lyr?
> I have gold lion kt66, amperex usn cep 6922, valvo e80cc and siemens ecc801s - would any of it compatible with the lyr?
> Thanks in advance!


----------



## Ooztuncer

THANK YOU GUYS...much appreciated


----------



## wakeride74

I took your advise since you seemed to be very impressed with the Lorenz '60s PCC88 Gray Shield and ordered a pair. Of the tubes getting praise they seemed to be the more reasonably priced. I got them today and am really impressed with what I am hearing over the stock tubes. Soundstage has expanded and the sonic image is really present @ a full 360°. It is one of the first things that jumped out at me, not only hearing more space between the instruments but the presence of portions of the sonic image in front and behind me to a much greater degree than anything I've heard from the LCD-2 previously. Bass has gained extension, definition, and dare I say a tad more impact. You hit the nail on the head with dynamics, that is an excellent word to highlight a distinguishing characteristic of this tube, very dynamic but not with out finesse to boot. Thanks for the recommendation!
   
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Hey all. It's been a bit quite around here lately - I suspect many of us have either found 'our' tube, or we're licking our financial wounds from this addiction
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Misterrogers

No worries wakeride74 - glad to hear you're enjoying them. It's always good to hear that others 'hear' what you're hearing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As I roll through various tubes, I keep rolling my way back to the Lorenz tubes. I've acquired a decent collection of good NOS tubes, so that's saying something. I think this is a tube we'll be glad to have in our collection - they really are pretty hard to come by.


----------



## dbcampbell

Newbie to this thread and to Schiit lyr...does anyone have any experience/opinion on the platinum Ediswan CV2492/6922?  thanks!


----------



## Misterrogers

Welcome dbcambell! Ediswan CV2492 is a wonderful tube. Great texture, nice warmth, decent extension top to bottom. It doesn't throw the widest image, but  it's decent. It was my first NOS tube, and I still roll through it occasionally.


----------



## Misterrogers

All - wanted to let you all know in case any are interested: A while back I picked up 9 pairs of Siemens (RCA Label) NOS 6DJ8's in great conditions. These are the GA2 model with gray shield and a date of Feb. 65. If you read up on these early Siemens, you'll find they're considered by many to be one of the best all around 6DJ8 types. They're very musical, balanced, smooth and not overly warm. Gonna keep a pair and sell 8 for $50 + shipping a pair. Not looking to make much, just want to give my tube mates a chance to enjoy this tube. Price these (same/similar model/year) and you'll see they're going for at the cheapest $75 a pair to $70 each. Again, just looking to cover my expense. What isn't nabbed here I'll sell elsewhere probable for more. PM me if you'd like me to hold a pair for you, or you'd like a picture.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> No worries wakeride74 - glad to hear you're enjoying them. It's always good to hear that others 'hear' what you're hearing
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I may come out of tube rolling retirement and pick up those Lorenz


----------



## Misterrogers

Well knowing a bit about what sound you like, I think you'll enjoy them. They don't best the CCa's overall, but have some real strengths and represent a great deal for the price.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Well knowing a bit about what sound you like, I think you'll enjoy them. They don't best the CCa's overall, but have some real strengths and represent a great deal for the price.




As much as I run my Lyr I probably need another set of tubes that sound something like the CCa's I only have two sets and I work from home so the Lyr is on a good 18 hours a day


----------



## Aturion

Hi everyone : )
   
  About to order the Lyr, the only headphones I own are AKG K701
   
  what set of tube to order along with it? 
   
  -E88CC ?
  -6BZ7 ?
   
  Do I take another set of 6N1P ?
   
_Thank You_


----------



## Benjamin6264

This might be incorrect logic, but AKG apparently pairs very well with the Valhalla, which uses 6N1P/6N6P.
   
  Perhaps if you take the 6N1P's, the sound signature will be a tad more like with the Valhalla.


----------



## Misterrogers

The rest of the signal path are different enough (OTL/Hybrid) that I'm not sure this would be a meaningful comparison Benjamin. Aturion - 'help us help you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





', what do you like about the K701? What sound signature do you like? What would you like changed about the K701 sound signature? What's your source (dac, pc, redbook, hires). There are so many variables that make up the sound you hear through a set of cans. For instance, if you're happy with the bass of the K701, we recommend one way, else another. Also - it's a bit of a long read at this point, but if you haven't yet I'd suggest you work your way through this thread. It's packed with good experience/information.
   
  The good news, is that Lyr plays very well with the K701. I have a pair of K702s that I enjoy with Lyr very much.


----------



## Aturion

Thanks both of you 
   
  Source : Flac files played on PC, mostly classic
  DAC : Beresford Caiman-gatored, optically linked with PC
   
  As for the AKG I didn't have the occasion to compare with other CANs, I can't afford buying many
   
  My DAC has an inbuilt headamp wich is very precise, clarity is excellent but I don't like the harshness of the trebles when paired with the AKG, but this DAC does an excellent job with my loudspeakers (Yamaha HS80M)
   
  So maybe I'm looking for some "organic feel" not too analitycal but again I have no point of comparison
   
  I live in europe, some friend of mine is coming from N-Y in a month or so, so it's a good occasion to have the LYR at a good price (without paying shipping + VAT + customs...) 
   
  Thanks again : )


----------



## obazavil

I tested my Lyr and K702 with Mullards and Valvo, and definitely for classic, Valvo E88CC sounds better.
   
  Some Lorenz on the way to make some tests, but so far Valvo sound great with classic


----------



## milosolo

I think I ordered the Lorenz tubes based on what Misterrogers had to say about them. I'm comparing them to the Orange Globes and I like both of them. These are just a few quick thoughts for now. The Lorenz have slightly better resolution across the entire frequency range than the OG's more so in the lows. For the first ~10 hours I thought they were too bright but they have since settled down. I never thought I'd be calling the HD650 too bright!  I've been enjoying the Lorenz too much for now to switch back to the OG's to confirm my impressions. I'm keeping both sets and of course the original 6BZ7 which are just fine in their own right.


----------



## ocswing

Hmm people have started mentioning the Lorenz and it sounds like it's a cheaper upgrade than what a lot of what has been going around. I have the GE 6BZ7 and I'm interested in tube rolling, but I don't want to spend more than $50 on a pair. Any recommendations? I've been following the thread and I think the only things that might be there are other brands of 6BZ7 (I think I remember someone saying the RCAs weren't better than the GEs), and cryo 6N23P?


----------



## Aturion

Lorenz seems too pricey, and there are so many Valvo http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=valvo+e88cc wich ones to pick ? (for a reasonable price)


----------



## MrScary

ocswing said:


> Hmm people have started mentioning the Lorenz and it sounds like it's a cheaper upgrade than what a lot of what has been going around. I have the GE 6BZ7 and I'm interested in tube rolling, but I don't want to spend more than $50 on a pair. Any recommendations? I've been following the thread and I think the only things that might be there are other brands of 6BZ7 (I think I remember someone saying the RCAs weren't better than the GEs), and cryo 6N23P?




Not better just different the RCA's have a wide stereo image to them 
YOu will be hard pressed to find tube sets for less than 50.00 unless you pick up some RCA or Sylvania 6BZ7's


----------



## MrScary

aturion said:


> Lorenz seems too pricey, and there are so many Valvo http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=valvo+e88cc wich ones to pick ? (for a reasonable price)




Teh Valvo's usually go up in price as people bid I saw one set for 100.00 which was the red label which sound fantastic


----------



## Misterrogers

Yep, as Scary said - eBay deals quickly become not so great deals as bidding ramps. Plus, you generally have less confidence that the tubes you've bought test and perform well. $100 for a great send of genuine NOS tubes that test well and arrive quickly is a good deal. I say this not from someone who has any stake in tube mongers, but as someone who's done a fair amount of ebay tube surfing and has the eyebrow singes to prove it


----------



## MrScary

Im posting one more time to give people a chance to pick up some awesome tubes

Siemens E88CC quite expensive on ebay
GE grey glass tubes branded motorola
OTK 6N1P's 1970's
Sylvania 6BZ7
RCA 6BZ7 Blackplate

All for 95.00 + shipping PM me today or Im selling them on ebay


Scary out


----------



## xxhaxx

AHHHHH Why do I want more tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  Which is more important textbook or tubes?????


----------



## Misterrogers

Tubes


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Tubes


 


  x2


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> Im posting one more time to give people a chance to pick up some awesome tubes
> 
> Siemens E88CC quite expensive on ebay
> GE grey glass tubes branded motorola
> ...




Sold


----------



## xinque

Just ordered my first set of tubes ever, pair of 1960s Lorenz PCC88 Gray Shields.  Hopefully my first shot at tube rolling will be a pleasant one.  Upgrading from the stock GE 6BZ7s, will the difference be that dramatic?


----------



## totto2222

i just ordered my second set myself (1st 6n1p) amperex 6dj8/ ecc88 a frame orange globe/heerlen 1970
   
  hope they sound good


----------



## claybum

I've had my Lorenz tubes a couple days (thanks to Misterrogers recommendation and my impulsive tube purchasing habits). These tubes best my Mullards, Amperex pq orange label, Amperex pq white label, gold lions and Sylvania 6BZ7. These are the most dynamic and yes, the bass is really well defined and deep. Very happy here.


----------



## MrScary

Well I came out of tube retirement and picked up a pair of the Lorenz will see how they do


----------



## yeemanz

Hehe Misterogers has converted everyone to the Lorenz


----------



## Misterrogers

That's the beauty of this community - we can benefit from each others explorations. I'm just glad you're all enjoying them. I tell ya - when those are gone, it's going to be difficult to find these 60s Stuttgart Lorenz tubes. They're very scarce on eBay, and I haven't find any other stash.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> That's the beauty of this community - we can benefit from each others explorations. I'm just glad you're all enjoying them. I tell ya - when those are gone, it's going to be difficult to find these 60s Stuttgart Lorenz tubes. They're very scarce on eBay, and I haven't find any other stash.




Better satisfy me hahahaha j/j ohhh when I ordered the top ones are already gone you have to order the second or 3rd line from tubemonger they said they cannot tell a sonic difference in the notes fields


----------



## obazavil

You lucky guys...
   
  I need to wait more until they arrive to my country *sigh*


----------



## Misterrogers

Yea, they only have the fused getter and squat bottle ones left. We're already so tight space wise with lyr, that it's hard to imagine trying to pull out the squats. I'm curious to hear your impressions Scary. I've bought enough tubes from you to have a sense of your preferred sonic signature, and we tend to like a similar sound. I am confident that for the price - you'll consider them a good deal.


----------



## WNBC

How can I be done rolling if MrScary isn't done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Waiting for your review to see how they match up against the Siemens
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Better satisfy me hahahaha j/j ohhh when I ordered the top ones are already gone you have to order the second or 3rd line from tubemonger they said they cannot tell a sonic difference in the notes fields


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Yea, they only have the fused getter and squat bottle ones left. We're already so tight space wise with lyr, that it's hard to imagine trying to pull out the squats. I'm curious to hear your impressions Scary. I've bought enough tubes from you to have a sense of your preferred sonic signature, and we tend to like a similar sound. I am confident that for the price - you'll consider them a good deal.




I have the tube glove shouldn't be hard to get them out. I will give an honest comparison Im sure the bass will be better thats the only downfall to the CCa grey plates and chrome plates is the bass is just a tad light


----------



## sridhar3

I'm putting serious thought into buying the Siemens Halske CCa Grey Shield.
   
http://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SH_E88CC
   
  $540.
   
  Am I stupid?


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> That's the beauty of this community - we can benefit from each others explorations. I'm just glad you're all enjoying them. I tell ya - when those are gone, it's going to be difficult to find these 60s Stuttgart Lorenz tubes. They're very scarce on eBay, and I haven't find any other stash.


 


  I've sourced some German, Siemens branded late 60's/early 70's 7DJ8 from a reputable seller I've dealt with in the past. Do you know if the Lorenz tubes are rebranded Siemens factory made oem tubes (similar to West Germany made RCA)?


----------



## WNBC

Nope, you are the man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Seems like a lot but I'm not familiar with all of the different variants of the Siemens CCa.
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> I'm putting serious thought into buying the Siemens Halske CCa Grey Shield.
> 
> http://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SH_E88CC
> 
> ...


----------



## Misterrogers

Nope. Lorenz did oem/label tubes, but the ones we're enjoying are Stuttgart made, with different construction than Siemens.


----------



## Misterrogers

Following the link, I don't believe those are CCa tubes. They're a good vintage of E88CC Siemens (Early 60s, Gray Shield), but they're clearly labeled E88CC not CCa. If those were early 60s Cca Gray Shields, $540 would be in the ball park for retail, well testing. Personally, I wouldn't pay that much for E88CC Grays.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Nope. Lorenz did oem/label tubes, but the ones we're enjoying are Stuttgart made, with different construction than Siemens.


 


  Good stuff Misterrogers. I wonder if the fused getter versions from tubemonger are designed that way to reduce noise and microphonics like the later A-frame constructions.
   
  Btw, how many of those out of stock (item 1054) Lorenz tubes have you hoarded? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Care to share? I only need 1 set....


----------



## Misterrogers

Heh - as far as you know, I only have the one pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do plan to get a pair of the squat bottles mid month. According to tubemonger, all 3 versions are sonically identical. I am curious to hear from others when they give impressions of other builds (fused or squat). I do want backups, that's for sure.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


misterrogers said:


> Following the link, I don't believe those are CCa tubes. They're a good vintage of E88CC Siemens (Early 60s, Gray Shield), but they're clearly labeled E88CC not CCa. If those were early 60s Cca Gray Shields, $540 would be in the ball park for retail, well testing. Personally, I wouldn't pay that much for E88CC Grays.


 

 Good catch, ser. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.  I'll look more carefully in the future.


----------



## MrScary

sridhar3 said:


> I'm putting serious thought into buying the Siemens Halske CCa Grey Shield.
> 
> http://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SH_E88CC
> 
> ...




If you take your time you can pick up some CCa Grey shields for less than that I would never buy from the tube museum his prices are way out of hand and hes not a nice guy to deal with I have had run ins with him. He jacks up the prices higher than anyone on ebay.
If I was you I would pick up the Lorenz from Tubemonger and save yourself the 400.00 I use the CCa Grey shields as my primary tube but they are shy on bass and if you want full bass on them you will need to EQ.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Heh - as far as you know, I only have the one pair
> 
> 
> 
> ...




They only have 15 left as of this morning of the squat bottles I think those lorenz are going to go fast and be no more.


----------



## sperandeo

mrscary said:


> *Updated list *
> *Scarys list of the Top 5 and take it for what its worth opinion of tubes to try*
> 
> 1. CCa Siemens & Halske grey plate O Getter -- Very rare, Very expensive 400.00 +
> ...




Should "CCa Siemens & Halske grey plate O Getter -- Very rare, Very expensive 400.00"
actually be D Getter????


----------



## sridhar3

Big thanks to Misterrogers for helping me grab up some Siemens CCa grey plates!
   
  Lots of pictures will be taken once they get here.


----------



## LuzArt

Quote: 





aturion said:


> Thanks both of you
> 
> Source : Flac files played on PC, mostly classic
> DAC : Beresford Caiman-gatored, optically linked with PC
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Hey guys, I am still out of circulation for now, but has anyone looked at the Telefuncken PCC88s that Tubemonger has?  I wonder if they are comparable to the Lorenz?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Yep, have them. They're classic Telefunken - good top to bottom. I prefer the Lorenz for slightly larger image, better inner detail and slightly clearer bass. I fine tube though.


----------



## Misterrogers

Actually rolled them back in yesterday


----------



## xinque

So my Lorenz tubes arrived like 30 minutes ago, it's my first experience tube rolling as I'm still new to this community.  The Lyr is my first amp and haven't heard anything other than the stock GE 6BZ7s that came with it.  How to describe it, other than..
   
















































   
  Rolling this one tube really was one of those wow moments.  I'd say it's up there with the first time I got a 'real' pair of headphones in terms of the experience.  I hear a definite upgrade, even more so than when I added the stock Lyr to my audio chain, or when I went from an HFI-580 to T1.  If this is what tube sound is like, then I'm sold.  Granted, I have no idea what a solid state amp would sound like either, and I haven't tried other tubes yet.
   
  At first I had to guess what people meant by soundstage.  Was skeptical reading all these descriptions that to me sounded a lot more like marketing material.  My immediate impression was everything feels more live.  Like I was in the middle of it all, surrounded and closer to all the instruments.  And hey, what do you know, I'm starting to sound like a salesman.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now time to try a CD with some vocals on it.  Thanks again for the tube recommendation guys, glad I found this hobby.


----------



## sperandeo

Where is the best place to get a matched pair of Philips E88CC miniwatts from the mid 60's for my Lyr????


----------



## WNBC

Excellent use of the icons.  You guys are making it tough not to pick pick up a pair of the Lorenz.  
   
  Are you guys describing the squat bottom Lorenz or the slim Lorenz?  Looks like the slims are all gone.
http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_Gray_Shield_GermanyFAT_p/1054a.htm
http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_Gray_Shield_Germany_p/1054.htm

  
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> And hey, what do you know, I'm starting to sound like a salesman.


----------



## xinque

1054b with the fused getter.  They were out of stock of the regulars, and figured the Lyr was tight on space already for the squat 1054a.
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_Gray_Shield_Germany_II_p/1054b.htm
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Excellent use of the icons.  You guys are making it tough not to pick pick up a pair of the Lorenz.
> 
> Are you guys describing the squat bottom Lorenz or the slim Lorenz?  Looks like the slims are all gone.
> http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_Gray_Shield_GermanyFAT_p/1054a.htm
> http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_Gray_Shield_Germany_p/1054.htm


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the info, looks like they have plenty of them so I'll wait to see how MrScary compares them to his Siemens.  I may have to come out of tube retirement for a short time too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> 1054b with the fused getter.  They were out of stock of the regulars, and figured the Lyr was tight on space already for the squat 1054a.


----------



## MrScary

I should get my Lorenz by the end of the week will be interesting!!


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I should get my Lorenz by the end of the week will be interesting!!


 


  Nooooo!
   
  I ordered before you but have to wait who knows how much for them


----------



## HK_sends

Thanks for the info!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Yep, have them. They're classic Telefunken - good top to bottom. I prefer the Lorenz for slightly larger image, better inner detail and slightly clearer bass. I fine tube though.


----------



## HK_sends

I ordered a second set.  I got the fused getter and am looking forward to listening to them.  The first set really did remind me of the CCa's, but with added bass.
  Very good tube!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Jumped on the bandwagon and bought a pair of the fused getter Lorenz today. Looking forward to compairing them to my new favorites,scary's siemens cca aframes I bought.

Current total lorenz remaining: 5pair squats, 1 single
 4 pair fused getter, 1 single


----------



## mmayer167

haha, there were 15 fused getters left when i ordered yesterday, now 4! Cop your tubes or hold your peace!
   
  M


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> haha, there were 15 fused getters left when i ordered yesterday, now 4! Cop your tubes or hold your peace!
> 
> M


 


  4 pair and a single so 9 total. your right though they are moving fast


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

i stand corrected just looked at the site, 2 pair left. my bad


----------



## MrScary

Well I got my Lorenz in today

Impressions are they are more forward than the CCa's, they do not have as much 3d imaging but they have better bass. They sound
similar to the CCa's for the most part. The best 100.00 I spent on tubes. I got the Lorenz squats so its kinda funny looking at the Lyr and only seeing the tips coming out pretty funny.

Now I am officially retired from rolling.


----------



## WNBC

So no space issue with the squats?  I guess I have more choices now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well I got my Lorenz in today
> 
> Impressions are they are more forward than the CCa's, they do not have as much 3d imaging but they have better bass. They sound
> similar to the CCa's for the most part. The best 100.00 I spent on tubes. I got the Lorenz squats so its kinda funny looking at the Lyr and only seeing the tips coming out pretty funny.
> ...


----------



## Misterrogers

Dead on Scary. A tad more forward and better/tighter bass. Slightly less 3D imaging, but still throws a dimensional image. Glad you like them. Fyi all - be very careful trying to scout these on ebay. Every 6DJ8 variant on ebay right now is oem (not Stuttgart). Study the construction of these Lorenz tubes; notice the gray powder coat covers the top mica plate - very unusual.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Dead on Scary. A tad more forward and better/tighter bass. Slightly less 3D imaging, but still throws a dimensional image. Glad you like them. Fyi all - be very careful trying to scout these on ebay. Every 6DJ8 variant on ebay right now is oem (not Stuttgart). Study the construction of these Lorenz tubes; notice the gray powder coat covers the top mica plate - very unusual.




Yeah I was nicely surprised by the Lorenz they surely make my top 3 list of tubes the CCa's Grey plate the CCa' Aframes and the Lorenz


----------



## yeemanz

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> 4 pair and a single so 9 total. your right though they are moving fast


 
   
  Only 9 squats left! Fused Getters are all gone!!


----------



## Mavwong

Not much luck too. I get mine from eBay but careful, it should be grey plate and from heerlen. Difficult to get nos, but u can try velvo, some are from Philip heerlen factory too and some Mullard e188cc are from heerlen too. 





sperandeo said:


> Where is the best place to get a matched pair of Philips E88CC miniwatts from the mid 60's for my Lyr????


----------



## sperandeo

I just ordered a pair of squats.....Now only 7 left.
   
  Can't wait to hear them.


----------



## MrScary

sperandeo said:


> I just ordered a pair of squats.....Now only 7 left.
> 
> Can't wait to hear them.




The squats are cool they are like baby tubes (short) but they sound awesome. You will like them


----------



## sperandeo

mrscary said:


> sperandeo said:
> 
> 
> > I just ordered a pair of squats.....Now only 7 left.
> ...




They were shipped out 1 hour after I ordered them. Let's see how long air mail , snail mail takes.


----------



## mmayer167

I wonder if there is any real difference between the squats and fused? anybody get both haha?


----------



## MrScary

sperandeo said:


> They were shipped out 1 hour after I ordered them. Let's see how long air mail , snail mail takes.




I got them in 3 days


----------



## MrScary

mmayer167 said:


> I wonder if there is any real difference between the squats and fused? anybody get both haha?




Tubemonger said they could not tell sonically any difference between them they are all 60's vintage tubes so they should all sound good


----------



## milosolo

I'm happy now that my spare Lorenz fused set arrived in the mail today! They went fast.


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey Gang. Looks like tubemonger found 5 additional Standard Lorenz (not fused or squat) tubes that are available for purchase if anyone is interested.


----------



## xinque

Does it make a difference that they're listed under 1055 and not 1054?
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Hey Gang. Looks like tubemonger found 5 additional Standard Lorenz (not fused or squat) tubes that are available for purchase if anyone is interested.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Hey Gang. Looks like tubemonger found 5 additional Standard Lorenz (not fused or squat) tubes that are available for purchase if anyone is interested.


 
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Does it make a difference that they're listed under 1055 and not 1054?


 
  Better make that three...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  P.S. - But they do have 7 etched brown label Lorenze under stock #1056...


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Hey Gang. Looks like tubemonger found 5 additional Standard Lorenz (not fused or squat) tubes that are available for purchase if anyone is interested.


 

 Just ordered a pair. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## olor1n

Looks like they've unearthed yet more Lorenz tubes. I initially ordered a pair of item 1055 when there were 3 left. Got an email saying the pair may not be a close match but that I could opt for a matched pair of item 1056, which were virtually identical apart from the Lorenz label. I went with the closer matching pair.


----------



## olor1n

^ Lol @ HK. Gotta be quick around here guys. There's still 3 left of the 1055, but now 5 of the 1056.


----------



## flu_fighter

Has anyone tried these?
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/TRIODE_FLIPPER_with_Vibration_Reduction_Base_COS_p/triodeflipper-cos.htm
   
  Wonder if they fit in the Lyr? Or for that matter has anyone used tube dampeners for the tubes for the Lyr?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> Has anyone tried these?
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/TRIODE_FLIPPER_with_Vibration_Reduction_Base_COS_p/triodeflipper-cos.htm
> 
> Wonder if they fit in the Lyr? Or for that matter has anyone used tube dampeners for the tubes for the Lyr?


 
  I was wondering if those would be worth a try.  I understand the concept of flipping triodes, but will that extend the life or quality of a tube?  Does the Lyr only make use of one triode?
   
  I'm still a n00b at this stuff and am interested...
  
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

I got my pair of lorenz in yesterday. They definitely have some low end thump to them. I like what im hearing so far. Im still tending to lean towards S&H cca aframes for jazz. However for rock and electronic music they do the trick, imo. 
  For anyone who has had a chance to burn them in, do the mids mellow out any?


----------



## Misterrogers

A bit, but they're definitely more forward than S&H CCa's. I really appreciate the detail level. I believe the slightly smaller sound stage of the Lorenz helps me hear slightly more detail. At least to my old ears


----------



## mmayer167

Finally got to rolling the Lorenz fused frames tonight.
   
  Directly compared to the ge 6bz7 that came from schiit, the lorenz are as most of you cited, forward. They do have that front row feel. Good bass but not a whole ton more than the GE's from schiit, its more tactile or textured if you will, it blends better and is not a note but a part of the music. Mids are forward and creamier/punchy. Im not good at the highs but if i had to say, the lorenz does high hat snap and cymbal crash with better resolve and sparkle without fatigue or the reach for the volume knob reaction. The highs also seem to feel a bit distanced from the rest of the soundstage which in my opinion is nice, i think this lends to the fatigue absence... (im using dt880 600 ohm for this testing session)
   
  These are my opinions, all in all, these tubes make the lyr sound awesome! They will be staying in the socket.
   
  M


----------



## ZorgDK

Has anyone tried the Lorenz tubes with Hifiman headphones?


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> A bit, but they're definitely more forward than S&H CCa's. I really appreciate the detail level. I believe the slightly smaller sound stage of the Lorenz helps me hear slightly more detail. At least to my old ears




I would agree


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey rollers. Tubemonger has been in negotiations for a bit now trying to acquire a batch of late 50s early 60s Lorenz triple-mica 7DJ8s. They just posted a patch of 30. They're going for a bit more ($70), but I'm going to grab a pair if there's any left come payday. Any brave soul that was planning on the Lorenz care to try these? In my studies, triple-mica structured tubes are considered to be very desirable.


----------



## WNBC

You guys are turning up the heat with these Lorenz 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I was able to resist the Dark Side after all of the initial Lorenz praise...
  Now even better ones, must use the force...
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Hey rollers. Tubemonger has been in negotiations for a bit now trying to acquire a batch of late 50s early 60s Lorenz triple-mica 7DJ8s. They just posted a patch of 30. They're going for a bit more ($70), but I'm going to grab a pair if there's any left come payday. Any brave soul that was planning on the Lorenz care to try these? In my studies, triple-mica structured tubes are considered to be very desirable.


----------



## Misterrogers

Ha! I know. I've acquired a pretty good collection of tubes, but the absolute rarity of these Stuttgart Lorenz tubes fascinates me. Now if I could only track down a pair of Stuttgart Lorenz Cca's...


----------



## HK_sends

Make that 28... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Hey rollers. Tubemonger has been in negotiations for a bit now trying to acquire a batch of late 50s early 60s Lorenz triple-mica 7DJ8s. They just posted a patch of 30. They're going for a bit more ($70), but I'm going to grab a pair if there's any left come payday. Any brave soul that was planning on the Lorenz care to try these? In my studies, triple-mica structured tubes are considered to be very desirable.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> You guys are turning up the heat with these Lorenz
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I don't want to influence you or anything...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but I have two pairs of Siemens &Halske CCa tubes that I will be selling and I will be sticking with the Lorenz PCC88 as my final tube type.
  I found what I was looking for...
  ...a CCa with bass extension.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Got two Squat Bottles too...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


hk_sends said:


> I don't want to influence you or anything...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I might have to buy a pair of those off you, if the price is right. 
   
  Unless the Lorenz triple-mica 7DJ8s sound better.  Guess we'll find out soon.


----------



## tkteo

[post edited cos I got the info wrong]


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> The PC88 heater voltage is twice that of the ECC88 types. No problem with this difference it seems?


 
  Nope, none so far.  I believe somewhere in his posts, Jason even mentions it being alright to try a tube with a higher heater voltage.  But I believe, the PCC88 is only one volt higher as opposed to twice the voltage.
  Can someone clarify?
   
  But I have to admit, the PCC88 sound very sweet to me...
   





  -HK sends


----------



## MickeyVee

Been following this thread even though I haven't ordered my Lyr yet.  With all the positive feedback on the Lorenz, just ordered a pair. LORENZ Stuttgart PCC88 7DJ8 Gray Shield
  Will likely order the Lyr in a month or two (after my upcoming wedding is paid off)


----------



## WNBC

Wow, that's a pretty strong statement.  Now I definitely will have to see what all of the hubba bubba is about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I don't want to influence you or anything...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Waves hand, "These _ARE_ the tubes you've been looking for..."
  ...Unless, of course, they're not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Wow, that's a pretty strong statement.  Now I definitely will have to see what all of the hubba bubba is about


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mickeyvee said:


> Been following this thread even though I haven't ordered my Lyr yet.  With all the positive feedback on the Lorenz, just ordered a pair. LORENZ Stuttgart PCC88 7DJ8 Gray Shield
> Will likely order the Lyr in a month or two (after my upcoming wedding is paid off)


 
  Congratulations on your upcoming wedding!  One piece of advice, get your toys before the honeymoon is over...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## nsk1

HK_send, you can always try E88CC Lorenz


----------



## HK_sends

I've tried E88CC tubes and they didn't give me the bass I was looking for.  The ECC88 tubes came close but as people have mentioned, they have a very narrow sound stage.  The CCa's have a wonderfully wide sound stage (actually, almost too wide, like I was listening in a concert hall) but are very light on bass.  The PCC88 rein in the sound stage some and bring the bass extension the CCa's lack.  For now, the PCC88's just "do it" for me.  Of course, if there is another tube out there that can match or exceed their sound, I might have to look into it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





nsk1 said:


> HK_send, you can always try E88CC Lorenz


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Nope, none so far.  I believe somewhere in his posts, Jason even mentions it being alright to try a tube with a higher heater voltage.  But I believe, the PCC88 is only one volt higher as opposed to twice the voltage.
> Can someone clarify?


 

  
  My bad. I checked the specs again. The difference in heater volage is about one volt.


----------



## WNBC

I like those odds, 50-50 chance I'll like them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Ok, ordered a pair of the 3 mica version.  If you really prefer these to the Siemens CCa I think this is good alternative for those looking to spend half the money.  The other alternative is to wait for MrScary to dump more of his good tubes.  
  Your Jedi/Hamster Mind Control has worked again.  Back into tube retirement for me, unless of course I need a backup but if you guys buy up the rest before the end of the month you'll save me from getting them.  We need a daily ticker for the Tubemonger Lorenz tubes.
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Waves hand, "These _ARE_ the tubes you've been looking for..."
> ...Unless, of course, they're not.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WNBC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Ok, ordered a pair of the 3 mica version. [edit] We need a daily ticker for the Tubemonger Lorenz tubes.


 

 Ditto.


----------



## HK_sends

Well, if my Jedi/Hamster mind trick is working, (waves hand) "You _WILL _come out of tube retirement and buy all 28 sets of tubes I am about to put up for sale." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I like those odds, 50-50 chance I'll like them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


tkteo said:


> Ditto.


 

 What, I'm not enough of a ticker? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

I triple hamster dog dare you to buy my 15 or so pairs of tubes.  43 sets of tubes is something to be proud of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I'm probably just going to hold onto them for a while and then decide what to do with them all.  Realistically I want just 3-4 pairs but don't have the will to sell individual pairs of tubes.  
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Well, if my Jedi/Hamster mind trick is working, (waves hand) "You _WILL _come out of tube retirement and buy all 28 sets of tubes I am about to put up for sale."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

50 bucks and you got a deal...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I triple hamster dog dare you to buy my 15 or so pairs of tubes.  43 sets of tubes is something to be proud of
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Right now I have 3 (soon to be 5) sets of Lorenz and one set of Siemens (with a Telefunken logo) that I want to keep.  The rest shall go...


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

hk_sends said:


> 50 bucks and you got a deal...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Make a list of what your looking to get rid of I'm sure a lot of folks(myself included) would be interested in checking it out, that goes for you too WNBC


----------



## MickeyVee

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Congratulations on your upcoming wedding!  One piece of advice, get your toys before the honeymoon is over...
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Second time around.. I know how to play the game.  Anyway, she's awesome and seldom asks about what comes in the house.  When I got the Senn HD650's and Matrix Mini-i she just asked what it was. Marrying a great one this time.
  Anyway, looking forward to the Lyr.. at least I will have one set of tubes to roll after I break it in.


----------



## mmayer167

Just got my 6n23p's today...  heres the link to what i have:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-vintage-Pair-6922-6N23P-EV-CCCP-military-qual-/200636582718?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2eb6df4b3e
   
  fairly hefty tube, size and weight wise.   They are a bit less forward but the bass is still there but doesnt reach as low as lorenz, they are really pleasing, no peaks really, pretty smooth and quiet!
   
  Compared to the lorenz fused they are a bit more midrange relaxed and balanced to my ears. the subtle details come through more with these at low volumes. Also i feel they are a bit more transparent, better separation for sure as well. Pretty satisfied and having a hard time deciding which tube (6n23p or lorenz) to leave in the socket 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers,
   
  M


----------



## Misterrogers

The 6n23p's are nice - I pretty much started my rolling with that tube.


----------



## tkteo

Now that I have Mullard E188CC and Lorenz PCC88 tubes in my collection...
   
  I am letting go of two pairs of used Mullard E88CC, which cost me around US$40 each tube. I also have a pair of Sovtek 6N1P that cost me US$11 each tube.
   
  If anyone is interested, please do PM me your offer price per pair.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Now that I have Mullard E188CC and Lorenz PCC88 tubes in my collection...
> *SNIP*


 
  Can you tell us about your impressions of the Mullard E188CC tubes?  Believe it or not, I don't have a set and am curious how it compares to other tubes like the Lorenz PCC88.
   
  Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## flu_fighter

I use this as a reference.
   
  http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
   

  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Can you tell us about your impressions of the Mullard E188CC tubes?  Believe it or not, I don't have a set and am curious how it compares to other tubes like the Lorenz PCC88.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> I use this as a reference.
> 
> http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


 
  Thanks for the info!  I still like hearing other impressions as well, especially since tkteo has the PCC88 and E188CC to do an A/B comparison.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## tkteo

I got to plan for a decent AB comparison then... I will contact you.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


tkteo said:


> I got to plan for a decent AB comparison then... I will contact you.


 
  Great, Thanks!
   
  -HK sends


----------



## akwok

Where is a good place to buy a pair of the Lorenz PCC88's?  Been trying to search on Audiogon/eBay but no luck 
   
  Ah, saw the Tubemonger links.  All gone too!  Noooo!


----------



## Misterrogers

poke around tube mongers - there's more there.


----------



## HK_sends

There's a few still on TubeMonger, including some of the 3-mica $70 tubes.  However, I am curious as to how these might sound:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm
   
  Anybody tried them?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

I'm a bit curious too HK - though they're definitely not Stuttgart made. So many tubes...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


misterrogers said:


> I'm a bit curious too HK - though they're definitely not Stuttgart made. So many tubes...


 
  True, but I would hope that Stuttgart wasn't the only place that made cosmically great sounding PCC88 tubes.  I did get a set of Siemens-made, Telefunken-branded PCC88s that sounds just as good as the Lorenz, so here's hoping...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Very true - just wanted to point out that they were OEM'd. That's the fun of it - trying different brands, models, vintages, etc. Hey, that's how I stumbled onto the Lorenz tubes. Have you tried any early 60s Tungsram tubes? Very nice.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


misterrogers said:


> Very true - just wanted to point out that they were OEM'd. That's the fun of it - trying different brands, models, vintages, etc. Hey, that's how I stumbled onto the Lorenz tubes. Have you tried any early 60s Tungsram tubes? Very nice.


 
  No, I haven't.  I did see these though:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
   
  Even though they're 70's vintage, they might be worth a shot.
   
  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

I have a pair of these cyro'd: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Tungsram-6922.html


----------



## HK_sends

Looks tempting...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  ...must...resist...
  
  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I have a pair of these cyro'd: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Tungsram-6922.html


----------



## HK_sends

Now I've gone and made my tube wish list from UpScale Audio....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

For those wondering how the Lorenz three-mica PCC88 tubes sound, you don't have to worry.  They sound just as great as the other Lorenz PCC88 tubes...if anything, with a slightly larger sound stage.
  They still maintain the wonderful extension and musicality.
   
  I'd say they are worth it...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


hk_sends said:


> For those wondering how the Lorenz three-mica PCC88 tubes sound, you don't have to worry.  They sound just as great as the other Lorenz PCC88 tubes...if anything, with a slightly larger sound stage.
> They still maintain the wonderful extension and musicality.
> 
> I'd say they are worth it...
> ...


 

 Thanks for the impressions, chief.  I took the plunge.  Will make sure to compare them to the S&H CCa Gray Plates when they get here as well.


----------



## Misterrogers

Awesome! I'll have to wait a bit, but they're definitely on my list.


----------



## mmayer167

Hey where are your volume knobs at normal listening levels? I don't usually pass 9:00 o'Clock. I am using asio (which ~maxes the comp volume) usb output to my maverick d1 and have the direct line button pushed bypassing the volume pot which defaults to same volume level if i had the volume pot maxed. I heard somewhere that best volume pot performance is between 11 and 3 o'Clock? is that hogwash or is there some merit to that? orrr should i just stop thinking about the gear and enjoy the glorious sound ; )
   
  ps, still switching back and forth between the lorenz fused frame and 6n23p. Its a pretty good combination of tubes im coming to realize : )
   
  M


----------



## HK_sends

My Lyr volume is between 11 and 12.  I use a Cowon J3 as a source with its volume at 38 (out of 40).
  If the song is too loud I will lower the volume, but I have never had to turn the Lyr up past 12.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## olor1n

I'm still waiting for my Lorenz from tubemonger, but I'm seriously contemplating moving my Lyr on. I've just pulled the trigger on a balanced solid state rig and will probably look to offload the Lyr + tubes in a week or two. Shoot me a PM if you're from Australia and looking to get the Lyr in a few weeks.


----------



## akwok

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> There's a few still on TubeMonger, including some of the 3-mica $70 tubes.  However, I am curious as to how these might sound:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm
> 
> ...


 

 Thinking of ordering a pair since it's cheap.  Hmm.


----------



## WNBC

Don't be too hasty, you might find that enjoy the tubey sound of the Lyr.  Plus what is the wait time on the NFB-10SE?  We all would be interested in your comparisons between the Lyr and NFB-10SE, battle of the $500 amps.  In a couple weeks I'll be writing a review of the Apex Butte ($500 amp) and will make some comparisons to the Lyr as well.
  
  Lorenz just arrived in the mail.  3 days delivery, good to be in the USA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I'm still waiting for my Lorenz from tubemonger, but I'm seriously contemplating moving my Lyr on. I've just pulled the trigger on a balanced solid state rig and will probably look to offload the Lyr + tubes in a week or two. Shoot me a PM if you're from Australia and looking to get the Lyr in a few weeks.


----------



## HK_sends

Sorry, everyone!  I should have known better than to post my tube selling list on this thread.  I am moving it to the for-sale thread in a bit.
  I apologize to the moderators and all of you for the trouble.
   
  Sincerely,
  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Posted my tubes in the Cable/Speaker/Tweak/Accessory thread in the for-sale forum...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## olor1n

Anyone else find the volume dial not as smooth to turn when the Lyr's been on for a while?


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Anyone else find the volume dial not as smooth to turn when the Lyr's been on for a while?


 


  Does it feel like there is like sand or something in there, but disappear after a few turn?


----------



## olor1n

Yeah, it's driving me crazy lol. Thing is that it turns silky smooth before the Lyr has had time to warm up.
   
  I took the volume knob off and it looked like some black residue was seeping through from the volume shaft. Also, I hate how the volume knob is secured to the shaft. I'm sure a lot of other components have the same setup but it's incredibly cheap imo.


----------



## xxhaxx

It doesn't really bother me since the amp is covered by a 5 year warranty. Try contacting Schiit and see what they have to say.
   
  Black residue?  lubricant?


----------



## olor1n

I won't bother with Schiit. It's trivial, but I just wanted to see if others had the same "issue".


----------



## mmayer167

^ yea after a good session at the same volume level the knob will almost leave an imprint if that makes sense?  when you go to turn it, it nicks over the spot it was but goes away after a little spin. Im not to worried, its a blue velvet pot, i think, which aren't too spendy.
   
  M


----------



## olor1n

You guys have described it perfectly. Thanks for the reassurance.


----------



## flu_fighter

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> For those wondering how the Lorenz three-mica PCC88 tubes sound, you don't have to worry.  They sound just as great as the other Lorenz PCC88 tubes...if anything, with a slightly larger sound stage.
> They still maintain the wonderful extension and musicality.
> 
> I'd say they are worth it...
> ...


 

 Would you say that the slightly larger soundstage is worth the extra $20 per tube?


----------



## WNBC

What is considered a while for you guys?  Even after an entire weekend of being on my volume knob is smooth.  Sorry to hear that.  When did you guys get your Lyr?  Maybe they made changes recently.  I got my Lyr soon after the release so one of the older ones.
  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Anyone else find the volume dial not as smooth to turn when the Lyr's been on for a while?


 
   
  Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> ^ yea after a good session at the same volume level the knob will almost leave an imprint if that makes sense?  when you go to turn it, it nicks over the spot it was but goes away after a little spin. Im not to worried, its a blue velvet pot, i think, which aren't too spendy.
> 
> M


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


flu_fighter said:


> Would you say that the slightly larger soundstage is worth the extra $20 per tube?


 
  They were for me, but of course, YMMV...
  They sounded even more like the CCa's with the three dimensional soundstage; and with the added bass, made for an immersive sound (sorry, words fail) that I could just sink into.
  I couldn't stop saying "Wow!" and grinning like a Cheshire cat when listening to music that I know so well because the tubes just seemed to add an extra level of...I don't know...something special to my listening experience.
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


wnbc said:


> What is considered a while for you guys?  Even after an entire weekend of being on my volume knob is smooth.  Sorry to hear that.  When did you guys get your Lyr?  Maybe they made changes recently.  I got my Lyr soon after the release so one of the older ones.


 
  Mine doesn't have that problem either.  Maybe they should contact Jason and company...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## mmayer167

Yea, i'll shoot him a pm.. unless someone else already has?  My lyr is pretty new, couple of months only. I'm pretty sure its fine.
   
  M


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> Yea, i'll shoot him a pm.. unless someone else already has?  My lyr is pretty new, couple of months only. I'm pretty sure its fine.
> 
> M


 

 I got mine back in July so pretty recent.and can you keep me updated on his response
   
  Thanks


----------



## mmayer167

no problem, im shootn a pm now.
   
  M


----------



## adydula

My volume knob is smooth cold and after many hours on etc...when its really warm...
   
  Try loosing the screw and moving the knobout away from the case a 1/16 of an inch or so, it may be too close to the case and the expansion when gettng warm may
  be causing it to rub slightly on the case....its worth a look.
   
  If this doesnt do it, talk to Jason..
   
  Alex


----------



## mmayer167

So, Jason's response was not too worry worthy. He didn't know why this was happening and said if I wanted to send it in for a look. I'll refrain and hold off till i notice a performance decrease... He said the temp the lyr runs is chilly compared to the pots specs
   
  M


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





adydula said:


> My volume knob is smooth cold and after many hours on etc...when its really warm...
> 
> Try loosing the screw and moving the knobout away from the case a 1/16 of an inch or so, it may be too close to the case and the expansion when gettng warm may
> be causing it to rub slightly on the case....its worth a look.
> ...


 

 Now I need to go buy a set of allen wrench 

  
  Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> So, Jason's response was not too worry worthy. He didn't know why this was happening and said if I wanted to send it in for a look. I'll refrain and hold off till i notice a performance decrease... He said the temp the lyr runs is chilly compared to the pots specs
> 
> M


 
   
  Good to know


----------



## HK_sends

Has anyone tried the Telefunken PCC88 tubes yet?  I would be curious as to how they compare with the Lorenz and if they would make a suitable substitute.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## adydula

Man you mean you dont have a set of allen wrenchs!!!!
   
  What kind of 'ma' cave do you live in!!!???!!! (LOL...)...
   
  Jason would send you one if u ask!!
   
  Good Luck
  Alex


----------



## flu_fighter

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> They were for me, but of course, YMMV...
> They sounded even more like the CCa's with the three dimensional soundstage; and with the added bass, made for an immersive sound (sorry, words fail) that I could just sink into.
> I couldn't stop saying "Wow!" and grinning like a Cheshire cat when listening to music that I know so well because the tubes just seemed to add an extra level of...I don't know...something special to my listening experience.
> ...


 

 Great, thanks HK sends, you just made me put another dent on my wallet.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> Great, thanks HK sends, you just made me put another dent on my wallet.


 
  Well, my job here is done! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## olor1n

Just got the brown label Lorenz from tubemonger. Shipping was quicker than expected so it was a nice surprise when they arrived.
   
  Initial impressions - they sound like Bugle Boys, but perhaps with a slightly wider soundstage. Details are a little bit more forward. I'm not certain it's more coherent. I don't think it trumps the Amperex A-frames in my rig for my preferences, and I find it's probably splitting hairs to point out strengths and weaknesses.
   
  This is the last time I get swept away by flavour of the week tubes in this thread. Unsubscribed.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Just got the brown label Lorenz from tubemonger. Shipping was quicker than expected so it was a nice surprise when they arrived.
> 
> Initial impressions - they sound like Bugle Boys, but perhaps with a slightly wider soundstage. Details are a little bit more forward. I'm not certain it's more coherent. I don't think it trumps the Amperex A-frames in my rig for my preferences, and I find it's probably splitting hairs to point out strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> This is the last time I get swept away by flavour of the week tubes in this thread. Unsubscribed.


 
  That's why I always say "Your Mileage May Vary"...  One man's trash is another man's treasure...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> That's why I always say "Your Mileage May Vary"...  One man's trash is another man's treasure...
> 
> -HK sends


 


  I didn't say the Lorenz was trash. As a matter of fact, I'm starting to really enjoy what I'm hearing with the LCD-2. It's just not night and day compared to the tubes I've been listening to in my rig.


----------



## dubselect

Hello. Just need an advise. I have Lyr and HD800 and I'm using stock tubes now. What tubes will be the best for this pair? I just want to buy the best tubes and than forget about tube rolling


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

dubselect said:


> Hello. Just need an advise. I have Lyr and HD800 and I'm using stock tubes now. What tubes will be the best for this pair? I just want to buy the best tubes and than forget about tube rolling




"best" is very subjective, maybe you can name some sonic characteristics you prefer. Then I'm sure someone can set you on the right direction


----------



## Misterrogers

I think the last couple of posts serve to remind of all of how subjective audio, audio gear and sonic perception is. It's easy for us to get geek'ed about a particular tube or piece of gear, expecting it to transport us to sonic bliss. I've acquired a number of tubes that were spoken very highly of that were good but nothing special to me. While this may be frustrating for some, it's enjoyable for me to zero in on what I enjoy. I also like the fact that what I enjoy now (sonically) is different than a few years ago. One awesome benefit of this community of Head-Fi'ers is gaining a sense of which of you tend to have similar tastes/sensibilities to myself. It helps with the hunt.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I didn't say the Lorenz was trash. As a matter of fact, I'm starting to really enjoy what I'm hearing with the LCD-2. It's just not night and day compared to the tubes I've been listening to in my rig.


 
  I know you didn't.  The saying was just to convey the fact that we all perceive things differently, which is why you may not be as impressed as I was with the Lorenz.
  In other words, I may think the Lorenz is the neatest thing since sliced bread, but you may not share my opinion.  Neither of us is wrong.
   
  Did that make sense?  I'm not good with philosophy...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I think the last couple of posts serve to remind of all of how subjective audio, audio gear and sonic perception is. It's easy for us to get geek'ed about a particular tube or piece of gear, expecting it to transport us to sonic bliss. I've acquired a number of tubes that were spoken very highly of that were good but nothing special to me. While this may be frustrating for some, it's enjoyable for me to zero in on what I enjoy. I also like the fact that what I enjoy now (sonically) is different than a few years ago. One awesome benefit of this community of Head-Fi'ers is gaining a sense of which of you tend to have similar tastes/sensibilities to myself. It helps with the hunt.


 
  What he said...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ZorgDK

I'd say the best tubes are the ones that have the best synergy with your headphones and source.


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> For those wondering how the Lorenz three-mica PCC88 tubes sound, you don't have to worry.  They sound just as great as the other Lorenz PCC88 tubes...if anything, with a slightly larger sound stage.
> They still maintain the wonderful extension and musicality.
> 
> I'd say they are worth it...
> ...


 

 My Lorenz three-mica PCC88 tubes just arrived today from Tube Monger.  Very nice.  They are keepers !


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bmoura said:


> My Lorenz three-mica PCC88 tubes just arrived today from Tube Monger.  Very nice.  They are keepers !


 
  I was hoping it wasn't just me hearing things... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

bmoura said:


> My Lorenz three-mica PCC88 tubes just arrived today from Tube Monger.  Very nice.  They are keepers !




Mine are on the way shipped yesterday sounds like my last tube purchase will be worth it.. hahah haven't I said that before?


----------



## sridhar3

Just got the S&H CCa grey plates.  These things are damn phenomenal.  Sure, they're a bit bass light as described, and paired with the HE-6 I find them a bit treble-heavy, but I wouldn't describe them as fatiguing or sibilant.  But the imaging is awesome.  In songs that have bass in oodles (the one that really comes to mind for me is "Tighten Up" by The Black Keys), the bass is clean, tight and detailed.  I can feel the texture of the kick drum.  Rock and jazz sound awesome.  One of my gear-testing songs, "Yours Truly, 2095" by Electric Light Orchestra is mind-blowing.
   
  I'll probably leave these in for a few weeks and then swap in the Lorenz PCC88 triple-mica tubes and see how they compare.
   
  This thread has left a gaping hole in my wallet, but the ear-brain connection is ever stronger.
   
  Thanks guys!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


sridhar3 said:


> Just got the S&H CCa grey plates.  These things are damn phenomenal.  Sure, they're a bit bass light as described, and paired with the HE-6 I find them a bit treble-heavy, but I wouldn't describe them as fatiguing or sibilant.  But the imaging is awesome.  In songs that have bass in oodles (the one that really comes to mind for me is "Tighten Up" by The Black Keys), the bass is clean, tight and detailed.  I can feel the texture of the kick drum.  Rock and jazz sound awesome.  *One of my gear-testing songs, "Yours Truly, 2095" by Electric Light Orchestra is mind-blowing*.
> 
> I'll probably leave these in for a few weeks and then swap in the Lorenz PCC88 triple-mica tubes and see how they compare.
> 
> ...


 
  "Time" is one of my favorite albums!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Just got the S&H CCa grey plates.  These things are damn phenomenal.  Sure, they're a bit bass light as described, and paired with the HE-6 I find them a bit treble-heavy, but I wouldn't describe them as fatiguing or sibilant.  But the imaging is awesome.  In songs that have bass in oodles (the one that really comes to mind for me is "Tighten Up" by The Black Keys), the bass is clean, tight and detailed.  I can feel the texture of the kick drum.  Rock and jazz sound awesome.  One of my gear-testing songs, "Yours Truly, 2095" by Electric Light Orchestra is mind-blowing.
> 
> I'll probably leave these in for a few weeks and then swap in the Lorenz PCC88 triple-mica tubes and see how they compare.
> 
> ...


 


  Glad to hear you're enjoying the CCa's - they really do seem live up to their reputation as been one of the - if not the best CCa's. I have yet to hear the Telefunken CCa's and the uber-rare Lorenz CCa', so I look forward to experiencing those. Just started listening to the Lorenz triple mica's today. HK/Others - I'd be interested in hearing your impressions comparing the Lorenz gray shields (aka '1054') vs. the triple-micas.


----------



## tkteo

My pairs of Lorenz 2- and 3-mica PCC88 just arrived.


----------



## HK_sends

And...?
  
  Quote: 





tkteo said:


> My pairs of Lorenz 2- and 3-mica PCC88 just arrived.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Glad to hear you're enjoying the CCa's - they really do seem live up to their reputation as been one of the - if not the best CCa's. I have yet to hear the Telefunken CCa's and the uber-rare Lorenz CCa', so I look forward to experiencing those. Just started listening to the Lorenz triple mica's today. *HK/Others - I'd be interested in hearing your impressions comparing the Lorenz gray shields (aka '1054') vs. the triple-micas*.


 
  Standard YMMV disclaimers apply, but I find the 3-mica to offer slightly more 3-D imaging than the Grey Shields.  It just seems that I can discern more layers of recording and individual instruments.  Oddly enough, after listening for a while, I'd say the soundstage was slightly smaller...more intimate, but by no means narrow.  I would say the differences are small but noticeable.  I really cant say one is "better" then the other (having had more time to listen), the grey shields seem to have a wider sound stage while the 3-mica sound more "3-D".  Again, it's only slight differences.
   
  Anybody else?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## mmayer167

I got nothin other than the fused lorenz are, for all im considered welded in my sockets after a week of A and B with the three pairs of tubes I have. They are wonderful, thank you misterrogers for stubmling upon these gems!  They are gorgeous with my 880 and thunderpants, nothing ever agrees between that swap!
   
  M


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> And...?


 

  
  Won't be able to offer initial impressions until the weekend earliest.


----------



## HK_sends

-HK sends
  
  Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Won't be able to offer initial impressions until the weekend earliest.


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Standard YMMV disclaimers apply, but I find the 3-mica to offer slightly more 3-D imaging than the Grey Shields.  It just seems that I can discern more layers of recording and individual instruments.  Oddly enough, after listening for a while, I'd say the soundstage was slightly smaller...more intimate, but by no means narrow.  I would say the differences are small but noticeable.  I really cant say one is "better" then the other (having had more time to listen), the grey shields seem to have a wider sound stage while the 3-mica sound more "3-D".  Again, it's only slight differences.
> 
> Anybody else?
> 
> ...




I should have my 3 Mica's in Friday so I am looking forward to the comparison


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> -HK sends


 

  
  Was the popcorn I sent via PM tasty enough for now?


----------



## HK_sends

Oh yes, quite good!
   
  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Was the popcorn I sent via PM tasty enough for now?


----------



## Misterrogers

Bingo! After a couple of days of listening, I'd say you nailed it HK. The Lorenz gray shields originally stood out for their detail. These 3-Mica's improve on that. It's the difference between depth and width. 3-mica == deeper, gray shield == slightly wider. Overall, I'm finding that I'll take the increased detail for a slight reduction in width.
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Standard YMMV disclaimers apply, but I find the 3-mica to offer slightly more 3-D imaging than the Grey Shields.  It just seems that I can discern more layers of recording and individual instruments.  Oddly enough, after listening for a while, I'd say the soundstage was slightly smaller...more intimate, but by no means narrow.  I would say the differences are small but noticeable.  I really cant say one is "better" then the other (having had more time to listen), the grey shields seem to have a wider sound stage while the 3-mica sound more "3-D".  Again, it's only slight differences.
> 
> Anybody else?
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> I should have my 3 Mica's in Friday so I am looking forward to the comparison




I am finding that the 3-mica to offer slightly more 3-D imaging than the Grey Shields as well also I have noticed a bit better Bass response on my audio chain which I didn't expect I enjoy these much more than the Grey Shields these will be my daily 
tubes and maybe throw in the CCA S&H Grey Plates from time to time.


Scary out:


----------



## milosolo

The Amperex Orange Globe is a great tube for the Lyr. After ~100+ hours I thought to myself "these tubes sound great. I just wish they had better detail". So in went the Lorenz and my wish was granted. I experienced a notable improvement in SQ by the Lorenz Stuttgart compared to the Orange Globe. YMMV


----------



## WNBC

So the Siemens have been dethroned?
  I have my 3-mica Lorenz sitting in my Lyr as well but I won't get a chance to really listen to them for another week or so.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I am finding that the 3-mica to offer slightly more 3-D imaging than the Grey Shields as well also I have noticed a bit better Bass response on my audio chain which I didn't expect I enjoy these much more than the Grey Shields these will be my daily
> tubes and maybe throw in the CCA S&H Grey Plates from time to time.
> Scary out:


----------



## tkteo

I would say it's a very impressive price to performance ratio.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> So the Siemens have been dethroned?
> I have my 3-mica Lorenz sitting in my Lyr as well but I won't get a chance to really listen to them for another week or so.


 
  I don't think the Siemens have been dethroned so much as had to make room in the top five category for the Lorenz.  The CCa's have a unique sound and the 3-mica Lorenz have a unique sound.  The question is which of the two (or any other tube for that matter) do you prefer?
   
  For me...let's just say I popped for my third set of 3-mica Lorenz... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## supertron421

I'm going to purchase a Lyr soon and what tubes do you guys think are best for it?


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> So the Siemens have been dethroned?
> I have my 3-mica Lorenz sitting in my Lyr as well but I won't get a chance to really listen to them for another week or so.




I don't know about de-throned I still love the 3d imaging and wide sound state of the S&H CCa's better than the Lorenz both the 2 mica and 3 mica but the overall presentation is more focused with the Lorenz the bass response is also better with the Lorenz IMHO


----------



## MrScary

milosolo said:


> The Amperex Orange Globe is a great tube for the Lyr. After ~100+ hours I thought to myself "these tubes sound great. I just wish they had better detail". So in went the Lorenz and my wish was granted. I experienced a notable improvement in SQ by the Lorenz Stuttgart compared to the Orange Globe. YMMV




Yeah the Amperex Orange Globes are average tubes they were one of the first tubes that I sold off after rolling about 5 sets.


----------



## mmlogic

Thank you guys, I plan to get a lyr to drive my LCD-2 lately, this thread helps a lots.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

alright after hearing so many good things about the 3 mica I've gone ahead and ordered a pair, before HK buys them all 
Before I bought the lyr I told myself I would not spend more on tubes than the price of the amp itself. Well after this month and 2 pair of cca's,2 pair of Lorenz, and 2 pair of russsian 6922 later, my plan has been shot. Who would have thought that geico wouldn't share my necessity to have great sounding preamp vacuum tubes. Oh well tube retirement is in my future, we'll see how long this lasts...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


dailydoseofdaly said:


> alright after hearing so many good things about the 3 mica I've gone ahead and ordered a pair, *before HK buys them all*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hey, I left a couple! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## milosolo

Umm... Just read this thread especially the last ten pages or so. It's also going to depend upon your budget. For example my upper limit is $100/set. Others will spend less and others will spend more. The Lyr seems to be pretty forgiving of tubes and it sounds well with a wide price range of tubes. It sounds fine with the stock 6BZ7 and it sounds even better with more exotic tubes.
  
  Quote: 





supertron421 said:


> I'm going to purchase a Lyr soon and what tubes do you guys think are best for it?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hey guys i noticed that my lorenz (fused getter) is amplifying itself. For example if i tap the tube lightly with the back of my finger nail, i hear a loud ting from the tube in the headphone. Also i can hear the sound of the volume knob's movement when i turn the volume knob up or down. It doesnt seem to be negatively effecting sound or quality of music though the tubes. This is the only set of tubes i have that does this. Just curious if anyone else has noticed this too?


----------



## mmayer167

^ hmm i have the same fused getter and that does not happen to me. Although im using 600 ohm and ortho headphones which means i hear no noise from any tube haha.
   
  M


----------



## obazavil

LOL.
   
  The Lorenz 3-Micca are no more.
   
  You guys made me order them 15 days sooner than planned 
   
  Share the love! Don't get 100 sets of them
   
  Oh... man... and my 2-micca were supposed to be my last ones...


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hey gang the folks at Tubemonger were nice enough to respond to my post here is what they had to say.

All tubes, specially the frame grid types like ECC88/E88CC/E188CC/PCC88, will exhibit this affect called microphonics to a varying degree. This effect also gives "air" or openness to the sound.
 
Question is if the microphonics are excessive e.g. do you hear howling sounds or other sounds that is not music.
 
It is NEVER a good idea to tap on a tube running hot. Tube internals are held in place with mechanical tension, and you are more likely to cause a problem by such tests.
 
In case microphonics is due to poor or loose socket connection, often just re-inserting the tube helps.


----------



## HK_sends

Hey, I only bought 99 sets...or was it three? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> LOL.
> 
> The Lorenz 3-Micca are no more.
> 
> ...


 
  P.S. - That was a joke, by the way...


----------



## MrScary

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Hey guys i noticed that my lorenz (fused getter) is amplifying itself. For example if i tap the tube lightly with the back of my finger nail, i hear a loud ting from the tube in the headphone. Also i can hear the sound of the volume knob's movement when i turn the volume knob up or down. It doesnt seem to be negatively effecting sound or quality of music though the tubes. This is the only set of tubes i have that does this. Just curious if anyone else has noticed this too?




YOU might have gotten some highly micro-phonic tubes that's bound to happen with the large supply that they ship. Its normal to hear some microphonics come through your headphones if you tap on them but not while turning up the volume. I haven't notced either I must have gotten a good set..
I would'nt worry about it much sometimes you have to make a tradeoff for great sound for a bit of microphonics


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Hey, I only bought 99 sets...or was it three?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 What? You mean the Lorenz 3-micas are all sold out?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Thanks for the input scary, I'm not too worried about it there isn't any strange sounds or howling like tubemonger described. Also one tube seems to be alot more microphonic than the other, I moved it to the back socket and that cleared up hearing the volume knob.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> What? You mean the Lorenz 3-micas are all sold out?


 
  According to the TubeMonger site, they only have one left... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> According to the TubeMonger site, they only have one left...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 On Sunday afternoon they had 9, then on Monday morning only 3. So I ordered my matched pair then, speeding the whole process :S
   
  Let's hope is worth it... I spent now more cash on tubes than the amp itself


----------



## MrScary

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Thanks for the input scary, I'm not too worried about it there isn't any strange sounds or howling like tubemonger described. Also one tube seems to be alot more microphonic than the other, I moved it to the back socket and that cleared up hearing the volume knob.




cool fixed your prob


----------



## Eisenbart

I just got my Lyr today. Spent the last 8 hours running it through the paces. I'm enjoying it, but I'm ready to start rolling.
   
  I've read the first 40 pages of this thread and the last 5 or so. I was surprised to see that everyone started using the PCC88. I had seen the Telefunken PCC88's on tubemonger and sent an email to  Schiit asking if I could use those. The reply was short and sweet "Nope". But apparently you can eh?
   
  That said, I'm really interested in trying the Cryo 6N23P or the Mullard CV2492. I think I may go with the Mullard's that don't have labels from tubemonger to save some bucks, or is that unwise? 
   
  Total noob at this, basing my choices off what seems to be popular for now.


----------



## MrScary

eisenbart said:


> I just got my Lyr today. Spent the last 8 hours running it through the paces. I'm enjoying it, but I'm ready to start rolling.
> 
> I've read the first 40 pages of this thread and the last 5 or so. I was surprised to see that everyone started using the PCC88. I had seen the Telefunken PCC88's on tubemonger and sent an email to  Schiit asking if I could use those. The reply was short and sweet "Nope". But apparently you can eh?
> 
> ...




Hate to say it but Schiit is wrong about the PCC88's alot of us are running the Lorenz PCC88's no problem so you could go that route if you choose. If you are going to start rolling I would go with the suggestions in the threads as most of us have rolled 20-30-40 or so tubes I am in the 40's and am running the Lorenz 3-mica PCC88's I think the reason that Schiit is saying no to the PCC88's is they require a 7 volt heater which I do not believe that the Lyr puts out but they sound fantastic on par with tubes costing 400.00 i.e. S&H CCa's. So to start with the mullards is a great place if you don't like them you can always buy and sell thats what I did. I now only have 8 sets of tubes at one time I had around 10 for sale and 30 in my tupperware container. I would not go with the Cryo 6N23p's originally at the beginning we all thought they were great tubes but as we used more NOS tubes and became more knowledgeable the Mullard is a better choice.. Godspeed.

Scary out:


----------



## pseudohippy

What am I going to do. You people are mad lol. I am still using the stock JJ. I want another option but no way in the world do I want to get into tube hunting and studying enough to understand what the heck you guys are talking about. So basically, someone tell me what to buy, Ill take a shot in the dark. I want the price to be around the $100 mark give or take a little. Less is better of course, a little more is acceptable. I need them to be available tomorrow when I buy them. It sounds like some of these disappear rather quickly.

Source: Laptop USB ---> HRT MSII+ ----> DT880 600ohm, or K1000 or rarely Grado MS2i. Bifrost on the way soon I hope.

Anyone that has a good pair of tubes for sale feel free to PM me with a price and what Im getting. Fair prices only please.

I like it all music wise and of course I like sound that is impossible. Ya know, perfect highs, lows, mids with clarity and musicality. Oh well, it really doesnt matter, Im just willing to take a shot in the dark rather than chasing and chasing and chasing lol.

Please help, what is the FOTM?


----------



## mmayer167

well, lorenz to put it simple but 23p's are great too!

M


----------



## pseudohippy

There are quite a few Lorenz on the Tubemonger site, I would have no clue which one I should get.


----------



## Eisenbart

I don't think Tubemonger has any more matched pairs of the Lorenz tubes. I bought a pair of these Mullard's http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_Like_New_1969_78_E88CC_CV2492_Mitcham_p/555.htm
   
  Got them earlier today and I really like them. Compared to the stock JJ's it's like a veil has been lifted. More clarity, bigger sound stage. An all around improvement to my ears.


----------



## mmayer167

any lorenz, well i just looked and it looks like there are only one left of every type  bummer

M

http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm spose you could try these


----------



## pseudohippy

eisenbart said:


> I don't think Tubemonger has any more matched pairs of the Lorenz tubes. I bought a pair of these Mullard's http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_Like_New_1969_78_E88CC_CV2492_Mitcham_p/555.htm
> 
> Got them earlier today and I really like them. Compared to the stock JJ's it's like a veil has been lifted. More clarity, bigger sound stage. An all around improvement to my ears.





Ok thanks, done deal. I hope I like them, if anything they will be something different.


----------



## MrScary

pseudohippy said:


> There are quite a few Lorenz on the Tubemonger site, I would have no clue which one I should get.




Go with the Mullards man I would suggest the Lorenz but they be gone we all snatched them up. The Mullards are very nice either the IEC's or the E88CC both sound great.


----------



## lootbag

So I went through all 133 pages of this thread and decided I had to tube roll just to see what all this hype is about.
  (The Lyr is my first desktop and first tube amp by the way)
   
  Since you guys have swooped up pretty every pair of tubes I wanted to buy, I bought some from a fellow Head-Fier.
  Went with the Reflector 6N23Ps and Brimar E88CCs.
  I hope they will be a welcome change from the stock GE 6BZ7s.
  Impressions will follow!


----------



## sperandeo

Okay I am fu$/3n freaking out here!!!

My 1960's Stuttgart Lorenz PCC 88 squats arrived today. A lovely matched pair 13,500-13,500. I plugged them in, turned the Lyr on, and left them alone for around 30 minutes. Then I played one of my favorite songs. I couldn't believe what I heard. I feel like I have a new amp. 

I noticed right away that the amp felt so much cleaner that I raised the volume from the normal 12:00 position to it's new home at 1:00. I have been listening for about an hour and it's outstanding. 

I would like to thank MrScary for his suggestions. I have tried at least 4 tubes on the Lyr and these are the best I've heard. 

I am going to keep listening late into the night. 

Wow.


----------



## jamato8

Wow, I get back and want to order a pair of the Lorenz and you guys bought them all! Well maybe some other time.


----------



## sperandeo

The difference in bass and treble is blowing my mind. It seems more defined, of a higher caliber.


----------



## sperandeo

jamato8 said:


> Wow, I get back and want to order a pair of the Lorenz and you guys bought them all! Well maybe some other time.




Put these tubes on your must have list. I'm sure you can find a pair if you search high and low. I can't believe I'm loving these so quickly. It usually takes me a few days to understand and love or hate a new tweak. This was instant. 

You know how the LCD's are considered a little dark on the high end? NOT ANY MORE. The balance between low, mid and high sounds in perfect balance. It's magical. 

best tweak I have EVER done!!!!!!


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Put these tubes on your must have list. I'm sure you can find a pair if you search high and low. I can't believe I'm loving these so quickly. It usually takes me a few days to understand and love or hate a new tweak. This was instant.
> You know how the LCD's are considered a little dark on the high end? NOT ANY MORE. The balance between low, mid and high sounds in perfect balance. It's magical.
> best tweak I have EVER done!!!!!!


 
  Great. I would like to know how they sound in a week or so.


----------



## flu_fighter

Sent you an email, John.
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Wow, I get back and want to order a pair of the Lorenz and you guys bought them all! Well maybe some other time.


----------



## Eisenbart

Anyone tried the Telefunken PCC88's? I think a pair of those will be next on my list of things to buy. 
  That could be awhile though. Between the Lyr and the Mullard's I don't have much spending money 
   
  Been listening to those Mullard's all evening and I'm having a similar experience to sperandeo. I'm hearing stuff I haven't heard before and everything else sounds so much cleaner. Very Very happy, 90 bucks well spent.


----------



## WNBC

Listening to the Lorenz 3-mica.  Don't regret this purchase.  You guys were spot on.  Excellent mid-bass and low end.  Combined with a very nice soundstage, imaging and clarity.  Details galore.  I'm going to listen to these tubes for a couple weeks then throw the Siemens CCa back on to do a comparison.


----------



## sperandeo

First night with these babies and I can't stop listening. 

If these get better with burn-in my head is going to explode with joy.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





eisenbart said:


> Anyone tried the Telefunken PCC88's? I think a pair of those will be next on my list of things to buy.
> That could be awhile though. Between the Lyr and the Mullard's I don't have much spending money
> 
> Been listening to those Mullard's all evening and I'm having a similar experience to sperandeo. I'm hearing stuff I haven't heard before and everything else sounds so much cleaner. Very Very happy, 90 bucks well spent.


 
  If you get Telefunken PCC88 tubes, make sure they were manufactured by Siemens.  They won't have the diamond on the bottom, but will have the four ridges on the top of the tubes that are characteristic of Siemens manufacture.  They are about as good as the Lorenz tubes:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-2-Telefunken-PCC88-7DJ8-6DJ8-ECC88-NOS-NIB-/290615654529?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43aa0af881#ht_991wt_1396
   
  Hope this helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sperandeo

I'm going to be honest, I thought twice about ordering these tubes. I had already tried 4 tubes and didn't think they would make much of a difference. I really had a hard time justifying 100.00 for a set of tubes. But I trusted the advice on these forums and it has made me a very happy dude. 
I'm not going to work tomorrow......well I can't work with these things on my head.


----------



## Eisenbart

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> If you get Telefunken PCC88 tubes, make sure they were manufactured by Siemens.  They won't have the diamond on the bottom, but will have the four ridges on the top of the tubes that are characteristic of Siemens manufacture.  They are about as good as the Lorenz tubes:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-2-Telefunken-PCC88-7DJ8-6DJ8-ECC88-NOS-NIB-/290615654529?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43aa0af881#ht_991wt_1396
> 
> ...


 

  
  Whenever I get them I was planning on getting them from Tubemonger. They say they have the diamond base though. What makes the Siemens ones better?
http://www.tubemonger.com/Telefunken_PCC88_Bundeswehr_Falcon_Diamond_Bottom_p/651.htm


----------



## Misterrogers

Here's a tip for someone who wants a Lorenz pair. A quote from tube monger 'BTW 1054A and 1056 singles can be used as a pair. Tubes are from
  close enough.'


----------



## sperandeo

The next morning in thought I would listen to see if I still feel the same way toward these tubes. 

They sound as delicious this morning. 

These tubes brought the Lyr to a new level of excellence.

I can't wait to see what happens over the next few weeks.


----------



## mmayer167

^ Happy for you!   Glad I got into the rolling game when I did so i could snatch a pair of them : )
         
  M


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


eisenbart said:


> Whenever I get them I was planning on getting them from Tubemonger. They say they have the diamond base though. What makes the Siemens ones better?
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Telefunken_PCC88_Bundeswehr_Falcon_Diamond_Bottom_p/651.htm


 
  Thanks to another Head-Fi'er, I had a chance to sample the Telefunken-made tubes (with the diamond as on Tubemonger) and I own the Seimens-made/Telefunken-branded tubes.  The Telefunken-made tubes sound drier, more detailed, but without the bass extension of the Lorenz or Seimens-made/Telefunken-branded tubes.  I really wasn't impressed with them, but the Seimens-made tubes sound more like the Lorenz.  Of course, this is all IMHO and YMMV.
   
  I'm curious about the Tungsram PCC88s: http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
  Has anybody tried those?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## flu_fighter

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Thanks to another Head-Fi'er, I had a chance to sample the Telefunken-made tubes (with the diamond as on Tubemonger) and I own the Seimens-made/Telefunken-branded tubes.  The Telefunken-made tubes sound drier, more detailed, but without the bass extension of the Lorenz or Seimens-made/Telefunken-branded tubes.  I really wasn't impressed with them, but the Seimens-made tubes sound more like the Lorenz.  Of course, this is all IMHO and YMMV.
> 
> I'm curious about the Tungsram PCC88s: http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
> ...


 
  Nope, have not tried the Tungsram PCC88, but if they are anything like the Tungram E88CC, they should be quite lush with quite a bit of texture, iirc. 
   
  I did try these briefly before I rolled in the PCC88 Lorenz fused getters
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-NOS-MINIWATT-Vacuum-Tubes-sub-6DJ8-ECC88-/220771362315?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3366ffa60b#ht_500wt_665
   
  They are somewhat similar to the Lorenz PCC88, slightly lighter all round, with a bit of sparkle at the top-end. Have not done a complete critical comparison between the 2 tubes as I sent my dac for modding and just got it back, so I am currently burning in my dac all over again.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> Nope, have not tried the Tungsram PCC88, but if they are anything like the Tungram E88CC, they should be quite lush with quite a bit of texture, iirc.
> 
> I did try these briefly before I rolled in the PCC88 Lorenz fused getters
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the info!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

Alright, the Lorenz 3-mica have officially taken over my Lyr.  The bass is so detailed and extended with these tubes.  I've also made some other adjustments to my system (Shunyata Venom 3 and Norn cable) over the past week so I can't say it is completely the Lorenz but everything is synergizing so well in my system that I dare not remove these tubes.  Now I wish I had a backup but I'll remain in tube retirement until another batch of them show up somewhere.


----------



## sperandeo

wnbc said:


> Alright, the Lorenz 3-mica have officially taken over my Lyr.  The bass is so detailed and extended with these tubes.  I've also made some other adjustments to my system (Shunyata Venom 3 and Norn cable) over the past week so I can't say it is completely the Lorenz but everything is synergizing so well in my system that I dare not remove these tubes.  Now I wish I had a backup but I'll remain in tube retirement until another batch of them show up somewhere.




Have you heard the difference between the Lorenz PCC 88 and the lorencz 3-mica?

Please let me know if you have. 

Thanks


----------



## WNBC

My guess is that HK_Sends has done the comparison.  He's a tube fiend, taking over the spot of my fellow retired roller MrScary 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I held out on the Lorenz brand until someone mentioned the 3-mica.  You guys had me at 3-mica 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Have you heard the difference between the Lorenz PCC 88 and the lorencz 3-mica?
> Please let me know if you have.
> Thanks


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Have you heard the difference between the Lorenz PCC 88 and the lorencz 3-mica?
> Please let me know if you have.
> Thanks


 
  I described my impressions a few pages back.  The grey-shield Lorenz and its close cousins offer a larger soundstage than the 3-mica tubes.  However, the 3-mica tubes present a more 3-D sound, albeit on a slightly (really only slightly) smaller soundstage.  However, it's the layering of the sound...to the point where you can honestly focus on individual instruments...that makes the 3-mica so special.  On all the Lorenz I have tried (ahem...pretty much all the ones TubeMonger offered), the bass was very impressive.  My original impression of the sound was like the Siemens CCa tubes, but with kickin' bass.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Of course, all is IMHO and YMMV!

  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> My guess is that HK_Sends has done the comparison.  He's a tube fiend, taking over the spot of my fellow retired roller MrScary
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just remember...tube crack is better than cracked tubes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
   
  PS - I guess now is a good time to announce my retirement from tube rolling...retiring with the Lorenz...at least until something better comes along.


----------



## sperandeo

Are there any of the 3-Micas still available anywhere?

I'm still freaking over my Lorenz PCC 88 and can't even imagine anything better.


----------



## olor1n

A new dac has elevated the Lorenz (brown label) above my previous go to. The smoothness, depth of soundstage, and imaging combined with the LCD-2's transparency and ability to resolve is really something. It's all about synergy folks.


----------



## sperandeo

Has anyone noticed that they are cranking the volume sice the installation of the Lorenz pcc88. I know I'm listening to my music louder (because it's so clean), but I'm wondering if there is a volume resistance with these tubes or is it just me?

I used to listen at 12:00 now I'm at 2:00.


----------



## xxhaxx

different tube have different voltage gain


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


sperandeo said:


> Has anyone noticed that they are cranking the volume sice the installation of the Lorenz pcc88. I know I'm listening to my music louder (because it's so clean), but I'm wondering if there is a volume resistance with these tubes or is it just me?
> I used to listen at 12:00 now I'm at 2:00.


 
  I listen at various times of the day too...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I do find that I have increased the volume a bit in comparison with other tubes.  Just don't damage your hearing.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

x2....o'clock
  
  Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> different tube have different voltage gain


----------



## flu_fighter

What headphones are you using with the Lyr?
   
  I have yet to go past even 11 o'clock on any tubes that I have used.
  
  Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Are there any of the 3-Micas still available anywhere?
> I'm still freaking over my Lorenz PCC 88 and can't even imagine anything better.


 


   


  Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Has anyone noticed that they are cranking the volume sice the installation of the Lorenz pcc88. I know I'm listening to my music louder (because it's so clean), but I'm wondering if there is a volume resistance with these tubes or is it just me?
> I used to listen at 12:00 now I'm at 2:00.


----------



## WNBC

Can depends on gain one sets on his or her DAC.   When I was using full gain (level 70) on DAC-2 I was also at about 11 or 12 on the Lyr.  I've since heard that the cleanest signal is level 60 so now loud on my Lyr is 2 or 3.  LCD-2.
  
  Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> What headphones are you using with the Lyr?
> 
> I have yet to go past even 11 o'clock on any tubes that I have used.


----------



## sperandeo

flu_fighter said:


> What headphones are you using with the Lyr?
> 
> I have yet to go past even 11 o'clock on any tubes that I have used.





I'm using the LCD2 v1

I've noticed this since I loaded the Lorenz PC88 

It could just be me wanting to crank them more because it's so clean.


----------



## lootbag

+1 for this.
  I have the same DAC and I am at 11-12 o'clock for 16/44 and 1-2 o'clock for 24/96-192.
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Can depends on gain one sets on his or her DAC.   When I was using full gain (level 70) on DAC-2 I was also at about 11 or 12 on the Lyr.  I've since heard that the cleanest signal is level 60 so now loud on my Lyr is 2 or 3.  LCD-2.


----------



## koonhua90

Could anyone tell me how does the Siemens NOS E188cc (gold pin) sound? I accidentally won it on Ebay (without having a tube amp), and now I have to get the LCD-2 rev 2 or rev 3 (if there is one), and get the Schiit Lyr to go with it, even though I just got the DACmini 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It feels like having the chicken before you get the egg...


----------



## HK_sends

I think misterrogers has been able to acquire a set.  He might be able to answer your question.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Paganini Alfredo

Quote: 





eisenbart said:


> Anyone tried the Telefunken PCC88's? I think a pair of those will be next on my list of things to buy.
> That could be awhile though. Between the Lyr and the Mullard's I don't have much spending money
> 
> Been listening to those Mullard's all evening and I'm having a similar experience to sperandeo. I'm hearing stuff I haven't heard before and everything else sounds so much cleaner. Very Very happy, 90 bucks well spent.


 

 Hey good to see you're still liking the LCDs... I broke down and got a Lyr too. I think it's a better amp than the one in my Isabellina, but the DAC in the Izzy is awesome. Finally got my ducks in a row


----------



## adydula

I wonder if its a gain thing plus not running the heaters at the proper tube voltage?
   
  Alex


----------



## WNBC

Yikes, that's a big commitment based on an accident.  Plus, how does one win a bid on a tube by accident, especially if one doesn't have tube amp?  There's got to be a good story here...
  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Could anyone tell me how does the Siemens NOS E188cc (gold pin) sound? I accidentally won it on Ebay (without having a tube amp), and now I have to get the LCD-2 rev 2 or rev 3 (if there is one), and get the Schiit Lyr to go with it, even though I just got the DACmini
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Yikes, that's a big commitment based on an accident.  Plus, how does one win a bid on a tube by accident, especially if one doesn't have tube amp?  There's got to be a good story here...


 
  If it was a good deal, maybe he was just thinking about planning for the future...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ...and forgot to change his mind before the sale ended. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

I wonder if that logic will work on my wife.  Oops I ordered the Schiit USB module, now I need the BiFrost.  Or I just bought the Apex Volcano so I should get the Apex Peak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> If it was a good deal, maybe he was just thinking about planning for the future...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Argo Duck

Please try this and report how that works out! You will be doing us a great service LOL.
   
  And if we don't hear from you again we will know it didn't work out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but will remember you fittingly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





> *I wonder if that logic will work on my wife.*  Oops I ordered the Schiit USB module, now I need the BiFrost.  Or I just bought the Apex Volcano so I should get the Apex Peak


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Yikes, that's a big commitment based on an accident.  Plus, how does one win a bid on a tube by accident, especially if one doesn't have tube amp?  There's got to be a good story here...


 

 I had plans of getting the Lyr some time before this. But the big drawback is that Schiit Audio's stuff do not support dual voltage (100V/110V and 230V/240V) as of now. I have emailed them and they told me I could ship it in for modification free of charge. I really hope that eventually this will be available, whether as stock setting or as a upgrade.
   
  As for the headphone, it was planned some time ago too, but I am just waiting to see if Audez'e will release something new this coming week. Half of the cost of the Lyr will be covered when I sell my FX-700 in these few days.
   
  The bid was accident. Sometimes people are just that evil, trying to raise the bid. But something got into me telling me to keep raising it...so in the end I won it. As analog circuits guy, I feel the need to see tubes in operation. It's all about the glow and the sound   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Oh ya, I am still single, so my wallet still has its freedom.


----------



## pseudohippy

Hey all, pretty new to rolling in tubes. I just got a set of the Mullards from Tubemonger based on reading this thread. I rolled them in last night after getting them in the mail middle of last week. I noticed an electronic sounding hum in the left side. So I switched back tubes to see if they had the same hum. No, they didnt. So I put the Mullards back in but switched sides, sure enough I get the same hum on the right side. Is this typical? I hear it with the volume at zero and with or without my MSII+ connected. If I need to send them back, how should I expect Tubemonger to react?
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_Like_New_1979_E88CC_CV2492_Mitcham_p/556.htm


----------



## lootbag

Haven't seen these around before.
http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_p/2000m.htm
   
  Anyone try them before?
  A little too rich for my blood.


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey fellow rollers. Thought I'd share my impressions of the S & H E188CC's (60s gray shield, not the newer no shield single stage). Here it comes....
   
  Wow.
   
  That's it!....  Just kidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If you've read Joe's Tube Lore (and most of you have), Joe describes the 'slightly warmer, more vibrant and wetter sound of this tube to the sound of the CCa's'. This is dead on. They're gray shield CCa's + more bass + slightly more warmth + more vibrancy. All in all, very nice. These are interesting in that they share the best characteristics of German tubes (air, speed, tending toward neutral) with the best of Holland tubes (ting of warmth, wetness/vibrancy). A very enjoyable tube to listen to.
   
  Not likely to permanently replace my Lorenz trimica's, or CCa's - but I have to say I may prefer these to the CCa's. If you seek to hunt these down, you'll find the 60's gray hardest to find. I haven't heard the 70's no shields, but some believe they're nowhere near the earlier ones in sonic characteristics. Haven't heard them, can't say.
   
  MisterRogers out.


----------



## pseudohippy

Well, I received an email from Tubemongers. They essentially blame the Lyr for the problem. They did offer to take them back but wont sell me another set to try with. Im going to try them in my Woo2 as soon as I finished painting the room and get it set back up. Perhaps they will sound great in that. Oh well. They sound good in the Lyr, Im just wondering if they could damage anything longterm. The hum effectively goes away when I start playing music but I can hear it between songs,


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Well, I received an email from Tubemongers. They essentially blame the Lyr for the problem. They did offer to take them back but wont sell me another set to try with. Im going to try them in my Woo2 as soon as I finished painting the room and get it set back up. Perhaps they will sound great in that. Oh well. They sound good in the Lyr, Im just wondering if they could damage anything longterm. The hum effectively goes away when I start playing music but I can hear it between songs,


 


   
  Hey pseudo i have a pair of valvo cca's that have that same hum your describing. I burned them in for somewhere around 150hrs., it removed the crackle and pops of the nos tubes, and reduced the hum as well. however the hum it is still noticable  when music isnt playing or during a rest in the song. I like the sound of the tubes alot so i deal with it. I dont believe its the lyr's fault however these are the only tubes i have that produce that hum. interested to see what they do on the wa2


----------



## HK_sends

So, are we going to have to start the whole tube rolling process all over again for the Audeze LCD-3?  That is, if anyone can afford a pair after spending so much on tubes?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Makes me wonder...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Argo Duck

Yes you will have to start over. Darn it, what if those tubes you got rid of turn out to be the ones you should've kept


----------



## Mavwong

Story goes like this. I like some of the tubes I got (holland made in case you like to know), but some of them just have too much microphonics due to the transformer vibration. Search around ebay found a guy sell tube dampers thus I purchase them straight away.
   
  Today I just received my tube dampers for ecc88 from an ebayer. It comes with 3 different size/thickness. I place 2 middle thick around mica area and plug in to the lyr and fit one large one on top of the tube and fit against the tube opening.
   
  First impression, background goes a lot quieter now, no more microphonics too. Happy again.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Yes you will have to start over. Darn it, what if those tubes you got rid of turn out to be the ones you should've kept


 
  That would be just my luck...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

They sent you some bad tubes even though they test the tubes sometimes the hum is still there testing is only so so in the world of tubes. They tubemonger should send you another pair. I have had tubes that hum and it goes away after 40 or so hours of play actually had some S&H CCa Tri's that did it for maybe 40 hours then just went away that is an unlikely event though.
   
  Good luck with TubeMonger


----------



## pseudohippy

Yup, I hear the hum on my WA2 although it seems slightly less. Ill post the email I got from them here and see what you guys think. I suppose Ill just take the offer to just send them back. I thought it interesting what they said about the Lyr though. I would normally not post an email but I thought this directly tied to us Lyr users.
   
*This is what I said to them:*
   
  [size=10.0pt]Mr. Monger,

   I recently purchased some tubes from you and received them last week. I just got to using them last evening. I get a noticeable hum from the left side of my headphone. So I switched tubes from one side to the other and now I get the same hum on my right side. I get this electronic sounding hum with or without a source connected to it and regardless of where my volume knob is at. Also, my other tubes do not display this hum as I also switched back to my older JJ tubes. Should I be concerned? Should I be expecting a better result or in your opinion is this normal operation with these tubes. Im using a Schiit Lyr headphone amplifier and a MSII+ DAC.[/size]
   
   
*[size=10pt]This is their reply[/size]*:
   
  [size=11.0pt]Not much we can do except to take this pair back and issue you a refund. [/size]
  [size=11.0pt] [/size]
  [size=11.0pt]We can’t send another Mullard E88CC pair as replacement because this is the 3rd instance of Issues with Mullard E88CC and [/size][size=11.0pt]C[/size][size=11.0pt]. In two of the earlier cases, we could not reproduce the hum with a highly sensitive Moving Coil Phono gain stage. It is possible that other E88CC and various ECC88/PCC88 variants work just fine in Shiit Lyr.[/size]
  [size=11.0pt] [/size]
  [size=11.0pt]Please advise if you want us to process a refund. There is a possibility that [/size][size=11.0pt]*Shiit Lyr is going to be problematic* with just the Mullard E88CC/CV2492/CV2493 simple disc getter type tubes. [/size]
  [size=11.0pt] [/size]
  [size=11.0pt]We have sold Mullard E88CC variants by the hundreds and *only Shiit Lyr* and couple of other amps have had issues in the past.[/size]
  [size=11.0pt] [/size]
  [size=11.0pt]Tubemonger[/size]
   
  So that is that. I bolded a couple things.  They are friendly about the refund so I guess that is what Im going to have to do. Does anyone see anything on their site that is similar and just as clean sounding as the Mullards in a similar price range? I paid $90 but willing to go a bit more. I am really lost looking for tubes on all these websites. Can anyone help me. Where is that list of yours Mr. Scary? Im off to the front page to look.


----------



## obazavil

Valvo E88CC are very similar to Mullards but with more bass IMHO, don't remember about the rest


----------



## perfect-pitch

Quote: 





mavwong said:


> Story goes like this. I like some of the tubes I got (holland made in case you like to know), but some of them just have too much microphonics due to the transformer vibration. Search around ebay found a guy sell tube dampers thus I purchase them straight away.
> 
> Today I just received my tube dampers for ecc88 from an ebayer. It comes with 3 different size/thickness. I place 2 middle thick around mica area and plug in to the lyr and fit one large one on top of the tube and fit against the tube opening.
> 
> First impression, background goes a lot quieter now, no more microphonics too. Happy again.


 


   
  Which tube dampers do you got? Do you have a link for me?
   
  Thanks


----------



## lootbag

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Which tube dampers do you got? Do you have a link for me?
> 
> Thanks


 

  
  I would be interested as well!


----------



## Argo Duck

Wouldn't it just 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  In all seriousness though, what you guys have done must be a fine starting point for tubing the LCD3.
   
  If the LCD3 lives up to Audez'e's billing - more of everything it seems but _maybe_ the same general 'house-sound' - what new demands does this put on the tubes that work for the LCD2? More transparency? More detail?
   
  I will watch with interest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  (Watching's all I will do for now - $1945 is too much I decided and the LCD2 are 'good enough' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> That would be just my luck...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## obazavil

I already bought Lorenz Gray and 3-micca (and the Mullards and Valvo I'm selling), among with Q cable that i know works with Lyr and LCD-2 rev2.
   
  I had LCD2 order on hold in waits of a LCD3 or LCD2 rev3.
   
  But with that price (not saying is not worth it), i decided to just play safe, and buy LCD2 rev2, and call it a day.
   
  I don't have the ears (and more important, money) to resell everything if needed and buy new stuff to make magic with LCD3.
   
  LCD2 was already my top limit...
   
  But it will be nice to hear impressions of the ppl that will buy LCD3 and test it with Lyr, to see how the "tube of the week" changes


----------



## HK_sends

Right now, that's all I can afford to do as well...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Wouldn't it just
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## pseudohippy

I keep hearing about how people are going to want to unload the LCD 2 now but Im in the too broke camp also. You'll all probably think im nuts but the LCD 3 just made me decide to buy the LCD-2 rev2 with the leather headband today. Yup, they are on the way. Should get them before my bifrost even shows up. Once it was clear I wasnt buying the LCD 3 I figured what the heck. Didnt want to wait on the used market either, brand new set to break in myself. I dont usually sell my gear so Im happy to get a new set and keep these for as long as they last.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> I keep hearing about how people are going to want to unload the LCD 2 now but Im in the too broke camp also. You'll all probably think im nuts but the LCD 3 just made me decide to buy the LCD-2 rev2 with the leather headband today. Yup, they are on the way. Should get them before my bifrost even shows up. Once it was clear I wasnt buying the LCD 3 I figured what the heck. Didnt want to wait on the used market either, brand new set to break in myself. I dont usually sell my gear so Im happy to get a new set and keep these for as long as they last.


 


   
  congrats i think you will really dig them


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> I keep hearing about how people are going to want to unload the LCD 2 now but Im in the too broke camp also. You'll all probably think im nuts but the LCD 3 just made me decide to buy the LCD-2 rev2 with the leather headband today. Yup, they are on the way. Should get them before my bifrost even shows up. Once it was clear I wasnt buying the LCD 3 I figured what the heck. Didnt want to wait on the used market either, brand new set to break in myself. I dont usually sell my gear so Im happy to get a new set and keep these for as long as they last.


 


  The LCD-2s aren't going anywhere....Audeze would be nuts to only sell one $2000 headphone. They are very popular (and for good reason) and fit a much bigger market segment. I really don't think they'll be a rush of LCD-2s being sold off.


----------



## olor1n

Can't imagine there would be a stampede to offload the LCD-2. It sounds just as good today as it did before I knew about the LCD-3. The only thing I'd sell my rev.2 for would be for a true HD650 successor. And only if I had to scrape the barrel to fund it.


----------



## pseudohippy

Thanks for the congrats and confirming my purchase. Ive heard them at two separate small meets and on my own gear for nice long periods. I always wanted them but call me vein I just couldnt get past that cheezy foam stuck to a metal strap of a headband. Now that they have this really nice looking leather headband I couldnt wait longer. Plus with my Bifrost on the way it is just a match made in heaven. Back on topic though. I think I might just keep the humming Mullards. They sound good and the hum isnt killing me. Didnt even notice today. Still wishing I was on time for the Lorenz though. That hum wont cause any damage to my equipment whatsoever right?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Nope no harm whatsoever


----------



## Mavwong

Not sure it's appropriate:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-X-TUBE-AMP-PREAMP-DAMPERS-6922-EL84-6DJ8-6N1P-12AX7-12AT7-12AU7-6BQ5-ECC83-/370545478288?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item56463b4a90
   
  I was using it with philips SQ e88CC, hollend made.
   
  So far I think it's the cheapest tweak I did to the LYR.
   
  Mav
  
  Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Which tube dampers do you got? Do you have a link for me?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Thanks mavwong, those look like an inexpensive solution. I though about trying these novib socket savers out to reduce vibration and i figured it would give the tubes a boost in the lyr so they could be rolled more easily. Only problem is if i put them in i might never be able to get them out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   


  http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm


----------



## pseudohippy

Wow, those might be cool for those of us that like to see a little more tube. You can always open the case and remove them. Heck, Id open the case to install them most likely.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Wow, those might be cool for those of us that like to see a little more tube. You can always open the case and remove them. Heck, Id open the case to install them most likely.


 


   
  yeah i think removing the case would have to be the way to go. otherwise you might have to pull out the tweezers or something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 These socket savers might be a good solution for the folks who bought the Lorenz squat bottles however


----------



## Eisenbart

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Thanks mavwong, those look like an inexpensive solution. I though about trying these novib socket savers out to reduce vibration and i figured it would give the tubes a boost in the lyr so they could be rolled more easily. Only problem is if i put them in i might never be able to get them out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

I've been considering these for awhile. Mainly because I want to see my tubes lol. The other benefit would be being able to use larger dampers. I think the dampers Herbie's Audio Lab make look really cool, but until I saw those socket savers figured I was SOL. I have birthday money too... tough choice between these and dampers or a second pair of Mullards for backup.​


----------



## perfect-pitch

Quote: 





eisenbart said:


> I've been considering these for awhile. Mainly because I want to see my tubes lol. The other benefit would be being able to use larger dampers. I think the dampers Herbie's Audio Lab make look really cool, but until I saw those socket savers figured I was SOL. I have birthday money too... tough choice between these and dampers or a second pair of Mullards for backup.​


 
  Very interesting. I´ll give them a try. I am using the following tube dampers. The benefit of them is that they fit on the tube with enough space to the sides.
   
  http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ballad-Rohrendampfer-gg-Microphonieeffekt-neu-/360346186708?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item53e64e73d4


----------



## HK_sends

I went ahead and popped for a couple of the socket savers from Tubemonger and got a set of the Yugoslav-made Lorenz SEL PCC88s just to see how they sound.  I also have a set of the Tungsram PCC88s coming in from Bulgaria (ebay purchase).  I'll give some impressions of those as well.  I'm not expecting anything close to a Lorenz sound, but was wondering if either of them might make cheap but suitable substitutes.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - Can someone loan me $2K so I can try the Audeze LCD-3s?


----------



## WNBC

Yup, all I need is your bank account number.  My country called Isle of Threeleggedbeagles needs a bank to dump approximately 4.2 billion dollars.  All of our banks are full.
   
  Back to the Siemens CCa, love the transparency, detail and naturalness of these tubes.  Will go back to the Lorenz as well.  It's a two tube rotation with the Lorenz as my #2.

  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> PS - Can someone loan me $2K so I can try the Audeze LCD-3s?


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Thanks mavwong, those look like an inexpensive solution. I though about trying these novib socket savers out to reduce vibration and i figured it would give the tubes a boost in the lyr so they could be rolled more easily. Only problem is if i put them in i might never be able to get them out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  My concern with adding this to my setup is am I adding any noise or other artifact to the sound?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sperandeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My concern with adding this to my setup is am I adding any noise or other artifact to the sound?


 
  I'll let you know.  I wouldn't keep them if they affect the sound in any way.
   
  -Cheers!
  -HK sends


----------



## xxhaxx

Would the damper/socket saver help with electronic hum?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


xxhaxx said:


> Would the damper/socket saver help with electronic hum?


 
  I'm not sure.  I don't have any tubes that hum so I can't help you there.
   
  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

I think I'm going to pick up a pair of the socket savers up today. My lyr has started producing a pretty loud vibration if the amp isn't positioned just right. I hope they will remedy this issue. I will post my findings


----------



## Eisenbart

My tubes showing microphonics all the sudden. They were fine, then one day I cleaned my desk and when I put the Lyr back I started having the problem. It's only happened a couple times, but it was enough to get me looking at the bases and dampers. Still haven't made the plunge yet, but I think I will soon.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





eisenbart said:


> My tubes showing microphonics all the sudden. They were fine, then one day I cleaned my desk and when I put the Lyr back I started having the problem. It's only happened a couple times, but it was enough to get me looking at the bases and dampers. Still haven't made the plunge yet, but I think I will soon.


 
  That's why I never clean my desk... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  PS - After you moved the amp, did you remove and re-seat the tubes?  That might help.


----------



## noluckboi

Hi,
   
  Have any of you tried out the valvo pcc88 tubes? So far I've only seen the lorenz and telefunken pcc88 tubes being mentioned. Are the valvos' not any good?
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1078
   
  I am asking this because I have received my pair of valvo tubes and I wonder how they would compare to the lorenz 3 mica for that matter. My previous tubes were the stock jj so I can't do much comparison except to say that almost everything else is improved, with the increased dynamics first catching my attention.
   
  Anyway, the valvo tubes I have received are apparently different (my fault entirely for not checking the order properly). One has a measure of *14000-12900 mmhos*, while another has a measure of *13500-13500 mmhos*. Should I be concerned that the output of the sound will be different? What does this mmhos do anyway?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## flu_fighter

I would say that your left channel and right channel will definitely sound different even though they both Valvo PCC88, they are structurally different, one has a splatter shield, the other is an 'A' frame.
   
  The numbers are the readings from a tube tester, which in your case is irrelevant because this pair is definitely not matched as they are different tubes. 
  
  Quote: 





noluckboi said:


> Hi,
> 
> Have any of you tried out the valvo pcc88 tubes? So far I've only seen the lorenz and telefunken pcc88 tubes being mentioned. Are the valvos' not any good?
> 
> ...


----------



## Eisenbart

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> That's why I never clean my desk...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I re-seated them, which did help a bit. Now microphonics only happen if I bump my desk fairly hard. I'd like to build a separate stand for my music gear, just too busy to fool with it right now


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hey gang i got my novib socket savers in last night, put them in and they fill the lyr sockets almost to the top of the metal casing. Which allows you to see practically the whole tube. The best thing so far is that my amp hasnt produced that loud hum, which is why i bought them in the first place. I havent noticed a difference in sound with them in. Also microphonics sound slightly less with noisy tubes but not night and day. 
​


----------



## pseudohippy

Wow, personally I love it and Im going to go buy them right now. Thanks for being the guinea pig on that one.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Hey gang i got my novib socket savers in last night, put them in and they fill the lyr sockets almost to the top of the metal casing. Which allows you to see practically the whole tube. The best thing so far is that my amp hasnt produced that loud hum, which is why i bought them in the first place. I havent noticed a difference in sound with them in. Also microphonics sound slightly less with noisy tubes but not night and day.
> ​


 
  I just got mine in today too.  Hadn't had a chance to try them out yet, but your words are encouraging.  Did you notice when you try to pull the tubes, if the socket savers stay seated in the Lyr?
  Just curious...
   
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Argo Duck

Hey daily these are the B9A NOVAL ones right, not the triode flippers? TIA
   
  Edit: Good question HK - I've had amazing trouble pulling out old tubes sometimes. Looking to this as a way to make it easier.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Hey daily these are the B9A NOVAL ones right, not the triode flippers? TIA
> 
> Edit: Good question HK - I've had amazing trouble pulling out old tubes sometimes. Looking to this as a way to make it easier.


 


  I hope so, it was the B9A that was linked and what I just got. $50 is a lot to me for this but what the heck.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

correct the b9a ones. 
  Hk, i have found if i do the same rocking motion that tubes come out of the socket saver pretty easy. They did start to move out of the lyrs sockets slightly as well and i simply pushed them back into place before putting a new pair in. i think if you wanted to get the savers out at some point you could connect a tube to the top of it and work it out of they lyr socket without too much trouble


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> I hope so, it was the B9A that was linked and what I just got. $50 is a lot to me for this but what the heck.


 
  That's what I got...the B9A socket savers.  Ok, I put them in and am running some music through them and my newly acquired Lorenz SEL PCC88 tubes from Tubemonger.  These are my initial impressions:
   
  The socket saver (ss) socket is tight and has a good grip on your tubes.  Right now, when I pull a tube, the ss comes with it.  That may be because I already rolled a bunch of tubes through the Lyr sockets and they've loosened up.
   
  The tubes stick well above the Lyr now.  Just take care not to knock them when working around the amp.
   
  One piece of advice...plug a tube in the ss and then plug it into the Lyr.  It's not easy trying to insert the ss by itself without losing it in the amp enclosure (do you need to even _ask_ how I know?)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  So far, they don't seem to affect the sound from the tubes...I don't have any microphonic or noisy tubes so I can't speak to that.
   
  Lastly, they really aren't made in China...they're made in India.
   
  Hope this helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## flu_fighter

Did you have to open the case to fit them in?
   
  Looks like you can now take the beautiful night time pictures of the glows tubes on the Lyr.
  
  Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Hey gang i got my novib socket savers in last night, put them in and they fill the lyr sockets almost to the top of the metal casing. Which allows you to see practically the whole tube. The best thing so far is that my amp hasnt produced that loud hum, which is why i bought them in the first place. I havent noticed a difference in sound with them in. Also microphonics sound slightly less with noisy tubes but not night and day.
> ​


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> correct the b9a ones.
> Hk, i have found if i do the same rocking motion that tubes come out of the socket saver pretty easy. They did start to move out of the lyrs sockets slightly as well and i simply pushed them back into place before putting a new pair in. i think if you wanted to get the savers out at some point you could connect a tube to the top of it and work it out of they lyr socket without too much trouble


 
  My Lyr sockets are pretty loose (I guess from all the tube rolling) and the Socket Saver sockets are real tight.  I'm sure they'll loosen up a bit in time and then I will be able to pull the tubes and not the Socket Savers.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## pseudohippy

Is it really a problem to just pull the SS with the tube everytime. Then switch tubes and reinsert already put back together? I might be missing something. I think yeah, it would be better if the SS would just stay in there.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


pseudohippy said:


> Is it really a problem to just pull the SS with the tube everytime. Then switch tubes and reinsert already put back together? I might be missing something. I think yeah, it would be better if the SS would just stay in there.


 
  No, it's not...I just thought the purpose of a socket saver was...well...to save my amp's sockets from being worn out.  I'm not really complaining because they really make the tubes easier to get to...even the Lorenz squat tubes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  No...no complaints here.  Besides...with a five year warranty, if my Lyr sockets get too loose, I'll send it back to Schiit for repairs.  NBD
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

flu fighter you dont have to take the case off and they do look really sweet at night now


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> No, it's not...I just thought the purpose of a socket saver was...well...to save my amp's sockets from being worn out.  I'm not really complaining because they really make the tubes easier to get to...even the Lorenz squat tubes...
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Lol, your right, I kinda knew I was forgetting something. I heard him say it took care of the hum and helped mircophonics plus made them fully visible and that was enough to get me to jump right on it. I guess I dont think in terms of saving the sockets since I dont do much rolling. I kinda count on you fine fanatics to help me figure out which ones I should get. I actually feel guilty sometimes not partaking in more buying and giving my impressions but I basically have no confidence in my ability to do that.
   
  Yup 5 year warranty is about as good as it gets short of lifetime. Gotta love Schiit.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Lol, your right, I kinda knew I was forgetting something. I heard him say it took care of the hum and helped mircophonics plus made them fully visible and that was enough to get me to jump right on it. I guess I dont think in terms of saving the sockets since I dont do much rolling. I kinda count on you fine fanatics to help me figure out which ones I should get. *I actually feel guilty sometimes not partaking in more buying and giving my impressions but I basically have no confidence in my ability to do that.*
> 
> Yup 5 year warranty is about as good as it gets short of lifetime. Gotta love Schiit.


 
  Don't feel bad, I don't have any confidence in my impressions either...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But, if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, you can at least baffle them with...well...let's just say I am pretty baffling.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Wait...did I say all that aloud?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> Did you have to open the case to fit them in?
> 
> Looks like you can now take the beautiful night time pictures of the glows tubes on the Lyr.


 


  That looks dead sexy!!!!!
   
  Im thinking about it now. Can u send a link for us?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> That looks dead sexy!!!!!
> 
> Im thinking about it now. Can u send a link for us?


 
http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

Gotta come out of retirement one more time for a socket roll 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  You guys are making this too much fun!  
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> My Lyr sockets are pretty loose (I guess from all the tube rolling) and the Socket Saver sockets are real tight.  I'm sure they'll loosen up a bit in time and then I will be able to pull the tubes and not the Socket Savers.
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Hey gang i got my novib socket savers in last night, put them in and they fill the lyr sockets almost to the top of the metal casing. Which allows you to see practically the whole tube. The best thing so far is that my amp hasnt produced that loud hum, which is why i bought them in the first place. I havent noticed a difference in sound with them in. Also microphonics sound slightly less with noisy tubes but not night and day.
> ​


 


  By pulling those sexy tubes out of the case you are keeping everything much cooler. My main concern is if by adding this extra material if we are messing with the sound? You know less is more.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> By pulling those sexy tubes out of the case you are keeping everything much cooler. My main concern is if by adding this extra material if we are messing with the sound? You know less is more.


 
  I don't think so...you are just adding pins hardwired to a receptacle.  I certainly don't hear any changes, but of course, YMMV...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


wnbc said:


> Gotta come out of retirement one more time for a socket roll
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Naww, nothing to see here...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Yup, all I need is your bank account number.  My country called Isle of Threeleggedbeagles needs a bank to dump approximately 4.2 billion dollars.  All of our banks are full.
> 
> Back to the Siemens CCa, love the transparency, detail and naturalness of these tubes.  Will go back to the Lorenz as well.  It's a two tube rotation with the Lorenz as my #2.


 


  Yeah the CCa's have a special quality they may lack a bit of bass but they surely have that special sound I just rolled back in my CCa's from the 3 Mica's


----------



## sulcata_geo

Tungsrum PCC88 NOS is so good. I bought from Yahoo auction in Japan.
   
  This tube has  wide sound stage , tight bass , sillky treble and transparent sound.
  This is my best tube in my experience(Cryo 6N23P , Amperex Bugle boy , Lorenz 3dmica , GE 6B7Z) ,


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





sulcata_geo said:


> Tungsrum PCC88 NOS is so good. I bought from Yahoo auctio.
> 
> This tube has  wide sound stage , tight bass , sillky treble and transparent sound.
> This is my best tube in my experience(Cryo 6N23P , Amperex Bugle boy , Lorenz 3dmica , GE 6B7Z) ,


 


  Im just learning about tubes. Are the ones Im linking the same as the ones you have. Ill read the description closer but I can never be sure Im not missing something.
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sulcata_geo said:


> Tungsrum PCC88 NOS is so good. I bought from Yahoo auctio.
> 
> This tube has  wide sound stage , tight bass , sillky treble and transparent sound.
> This is my best tube in my experience(Cryo 6N23P , Amperex Bugle boy , Lorenz 3dmica , GE 6B7Z) ,


 
  You like them better than the Lorenz three-mica PCC88 tubes?  Now I've got to try them out.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> You like them better than the Lorenz three-mica PCC88 tubes?  Now I've got to try them out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



   Home > Pre Tubes > 




   Tungsram PCC88 7DJ8 - M. Pairs MINT NOS JAN-Feb-MAR-1971 - Hungary



  
 
  Do you like the 7DJ8's better than the Lorenz PCC88????


----------



## sulcata_geo

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> You like them better than the Lorenz three-mica PCC88 tubes?  Now I've got to try them out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Home > Pre Tubes >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes , I like Tungsram better than Lorenz.
   
  The sound of Lorenz is more tubey compare to Tungsrum.


----------



## sulcata_geo

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Home > Pre Tubes >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I bought from Japanese buyer.
  He said the test score was one tube is 15250-16750mmhos and ohter one is 15250-17000 by Hickok580..
  This score is differ from Tubemonger's stock tube.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Home > Pre Tubes >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I don't know, but I am not above trying something different.
  
  Quote: 





sulcata_geo said:


> Yes , I like Tungsram better than Lorenz.
> 
> The sound of Lorenz is more tubby compare to Tungsrum.


 
  Some people enjoy the "tubey" sound.  I've heard the Eastern European (incl. Hungary and former Yugoslavia) tubes tend to be more analytical...almost solid-state sounding.  That's not necessarily a bad thing depending on your music tastes and your setup.
  Still worth a try...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sulcata_geo

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Im just learning about tubes. Are the ones Im linking the same as the ones you have. Ill read the description closer but I can never be sure Im not missing something.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm


 
   

  I bought from Japanese buyer.
  He said the test score was one tube is 15250-16750mmhos and ohter one is 15250-17000 by Hickok580..
  This score is differ from Tubemonger's stock tube.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





sulcata_geo said:


> Tungsrum PCC88 NOS is so good. I bought from Yahoo auctio.
> 
> This tube has  wide sound stage , tight bass , sillky treble and transparent sound.
> This is my best tube in my experience(Cryo 6N23P , Amperex Bugle boy , Lorenz 3dmica , GE 6B7Z) ,


 
  Just bought some from Tubemonger they were cheap enough see how they are against the CCa's and 3-Mica's


----------



## Misterrogers

I'll roll through mine again, but at first pass I didn't find them very dimensional. Very clean with good extension top to bottom though.


----------



## Viper2005

Would using the socket savers reduce the temperature of the amp casing, since the tubes would now be mostly outside the enclosure?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

HK did you ever try the Ei pcc88 with the Lorenz label? I remember awhile back you were considering buying a pair. If so what did you think?


----------



## obazavil

lol
   
  I just received my 3micca lorenz 2 days ago (haven't tried them, waiting for my LCD-2 on tuesday) and there is a new favorite?
   
  c'mon, stop making me spend money... it will take a while to recover... hahaha 
   
  I should just unsuscribe from here, too many temptations.
   
  Anyway, waiting for your comparisons against tug vs CCa and Lorenz


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





viper2005 said:


> Would using the socket savers reduce the temperature of the amp casing, since the tubes would now be mostly outside the enclosure?


 


  I ran the amp for 3+ hours yesterday and looking back I don't recall the volume knob getting hot like it use to. I'll double check when I get home from work and confirm that


----------



## mmayer167

Jumped on the Tungsrum PCC88 train. got a pair from tubmonger. I needed a decent backup for the lorenz, thought these should be better than the stocks  
   
  Still loving every minute with the Lorenz!
   
  I'll be back later this week with initial thoughts of Tung vs Lorenz.
   
  M


----------



## Misterrogers

Spent some time listening to the Tungsrams again. I have a pair of Tungsram E88CC, late 60's I believe, cryo treated. Great extension top to bottom, very dynamic. Deep sound stage, but not the widest. Not the warmest tube either. Detail is decent, but I believe the Lorenz trimica's reveal more inner detail. IMO, YMMV, ETC.
   
  Still, a very nice tube. If you audio chain tended to be dark or warm, they may be just the ticket.
   
http://vintageaudiotubes.com/?p=1306


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> HK did you ever try the Ei pcc88 with the Lorenz label? I remember awhile back you were considering buying a pair. If so what did you think?


 
  I want to hold off with the impressions at the moment.  I need Misterrogers to listen to them to see if I am hearing things.  I will say I think they may have potential.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I ran the amp for 3+ hours yesterday and looking back I don't recall the volume knob getting hot like it use to. I'll double check when I get home from work and confirm that


 
  I have noticed that with the Socket Savers, the case doesn't heat up quite so fast.  The volume knob takes a while to get warm.  I can only imagine that is helping the other components stay cool as well.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


misterrogers said:


> Spent some time listening to the Tungsrams again. I have a pair of Tungsram E88CC, late 60's I believe, cryo treated. Great extension top to bottom, very dynamic. Deep sound stage, but not the widest. Not the warmest tube either. Detail is decent, but I believe the Lorenz trimica's reveal more inner detail. IMO, YMMV, ETC.
> 
> Still, a very nice tube. If you audio chain tended to be dark or warm, they may be just the ticket.
> 
> http://vintageaudiotubes.com/?p=1306


 
  Ahh, but methinks the Tungsram PCC88 may be a slightly different animal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Spent some time listening to the Tungsrams again. I have a pair of Tungsram E88CC, late 60's I believe, cryo treated. Great extension top to bottom, very dynamic. Deep sound stage, but not the widest. Not the warmest tube either. Detail is decent, but I believe the Lorenz trimica's reveal more inner detail. IMO, YMMV, ETC.
> 
> Still, a very nice tube. If you audio chain tended to be dark or warm, they may be just the ticket.
> 
> http://vintageaudiotubes.com/?p=1306


 


  wow i just checked out your website, thats really well made. Im impressed, keep up the good work


----------



## Misterrogers

Yep, likely so - but in my experience with ECC* and PCC versions of various tubes, I haven't been able to identify a difference.
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Ahh, but methinks the Tungsram PCC88 may be a slightly different animal.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Yep, likely so - but in my experience with ECC* and PCC versions of various tubes, I haven't been able to identify a difference.


 
  Ahh...there's the rub.  You mentioned your Tungsrams are E88CC tubes (which, to me, relate well with 6922s), but ECC88s (and PCC88s) relate with 6DJ8 tubes.  The difference is in bass extension.  ECC88 tubes (and their kin) tend to have better bass extension than the E88CC/6922 tubes (which are very nice in mids and highs).  My tube rolling journey started with 6922s, then to E88CCs, then ECC88s (with some 6DJ8s thrown in), then a brief experience with CCAs before some crazy folks got me hooked on PCC88s.  While not a bass-head, I like to know the lows are there when I need them.
   
  Please understand these are my impressions with the tube types and of course, YMMV.  All IMHO and other cryptic disclaimers...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  But it is how my perceptions and tastes have gone.
   
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Yes - you are correct. Had a 'brain fart' - Flipped my 'E88*' with 'ECC*'. I will now take my seat in the peanut gallery 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Ahh...there's the rub.  You mentioned your Tungsrams are E88CC tubes (which, to me, relate well with 6922s), but ECC88s (and PCC88s) relate with 6DJ8 tubes.  The difference is in bass extension.  ECC88 tubes (and their kin) tend to have better bass extension than the E88CC/6922 tubes (which are very nice in mids and highs).  My tube rolling journey started with 6922s, then to E88CCs, then ECC88s (with some 6DJ8s thrown in), then a brief experience with CCAs before some crazy folks got me hooked on PCC88s.  While not a bass-head, I like to know the lows are there when I need them.
> 
> Please understand these are my impressions with the tube types and of course, YMMV.  All IMHO and other cryptic disclaimers...
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Yes - you are correct. Had a 'brain fart' - Flipped my 'E88*' with 'ECC*'. I will now take my seat in the peanut gallery


 
  Yes...please...join the rest of us nuts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
  -HK sends


----------



## flu_fighter

This thread is a bad influence on my wallet. Lol.


----------



## Calypso

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have noticed that with the Socket Savers, the case doesn't heat up quite so fast.  The volume knob takes a while to get warm.  I can only imagine that is helping the other components stay cool as well.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 


  If you guys want to cool down the lyr, you could simply remove the frame. That´ll get the air flowing. Just don´t put your fingers in there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Here´s a few pictures of a Valhalla in the nude: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/6.html


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


calypso said:


> If you guys want to cool down the lyr, you could simply remove the frame. That´ll get the air flowing. Just don´t put your fingers in there
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That looks real cool! (no pun intended...no, really!)  Naked audio...gotta love it!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## koonhua90

Have anyone tried out the Amperex 7308 Orange Label? What about the Amperex USN-CEP 6922?


----------



## pseudohippy

Got my Socket Savers. Thought somebody might want another view of the amp with them installed. Unfortunately my tube hum persists. Bad tubes I guess. Got some Lorenz coming though so I can test out the savers ability to help me swap soon.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

^ looking good


----------



## fir3dp

hi guys! i am looking for a tube to improve the soundstage and imaging of my lcd2v2!!!! and after reading through 142 pages in the past week! i prob dont remember any tubes hahaha
   
  anyone can recommend me a pair?!


----------



## MrScary

I actually bought some socket savers for the hell of it. I noticed a slight cool down of the case but I got them more for the look hahaha I like the tubes to stick all the way out... the 3-mica's look very cool even though they are not bright tubes they look neat.  I think that is the first time on this thread I have bought something for the look.. hahaha
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have noticed that with the Socket Savers, the case doesn't heat up quite so fast.  The volume knob takes a while to get warm.  I can only imagine that is helping the other components stay cool as well.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


----------



## flu_fighter

Just rolled in a pair of Valvo pinched waist "D" getter PCC88.
   
  First initial impressions "Big Wow"
   
  So far these tubes have the blackest background that I have rolled in the Lyr.
   
  It has a wider soundstage than the Lorenz PCC88 fused getter, sweeter vocals. The bass is punchy and dynamic. It is also a transparent and lively sounding tube.
   
  It is much more tonally rich compared to the Lorenz PCC88.
   
  Yet to compare this to the triple micas.
   
  Wish I had a pair of CCas to these to..


----------



## HK_sends

STOP TORMENTING MY WALLET!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> Just rolled in a pair of Valvo pinched waist "D" getter PCC88.
> 
> First initial impressions "Big Wow"
> 
> ...


----------



## flu_fighter

Your wallet is safe. I was lucky to bid on a used pair fairly cheap on ebay. They are not exactly readily available and quite hard to come by.
   
  I wouldn't recommend paying crazy prices for it though.
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> STOP TORMENTING MY WALLET!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> Your wallet is safe. I was lucky to bid on a used pair fairly cheap on ebay. They are not exactly readily available and quite hard to come by.
> 
> I wouldn't recommend paying crazy prices for it though.


 
  Well, Ok then... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## mmayer167

The Tungsram pcc88 got here today, did some swapping back and forth with the lorenz fused getters. (both tung and lorenz are from tubemonger)
   
  Initial ear catcher was the loss in bass impact, not presence, but impact. The bass quality is still there but the impact and quantity is less. Still good but less (we're talking small amount here).
   
  The Tungsram pushes the music a bit farther away where as the lorenz are very up front. I think this is the cause for a bit of loss in detail to my ears, with the lorenz it was easier to pick up (or feel) the guitar picks and piano strikes.
   
  Separation is not as good as the lorenz, but high end is a bit more airy.
   
  Overall, after initial imps, will these be in the lyr more than the lorenz? no.   could i live with these if the lorenz died? Yes!
   
  Are they better than stock GE or 6n23p? yes better than GE but id call them just a different flavour than the 6n23p and sort of a side/upgrade.
   
  These also have no hum whatsoever
   
  If you cannot find lorenz these are worth a try. Second best tube i have for sure.
   
  M


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

alright so ive been doing an experiment with my handheld laser thermometer and the lyr. here is the setup, i took the resting temp of the amp (center of the "S" logo on the top) 71.5 degrees fahrenheit. The volume knob (on the dot) 72 degrees, and the tubes ( pcc88 Lorenz 3mica) 71.5 degrees.  Music was being played through out experiment at 11oclock on amp.
  After an hour and a half in the in the socket savers the amp was at 99 degrees, the knob 100.5, and the tubes 155 degrees.     Cool Down to base temperatures...
  After an hour and a half with tubes directly in lyr sockets. The amp was at 103.5, the knob was at 105.5, and i couldnt measure the tube because it was in the amp.   I was measuring the second mica disk, the one right above the top of the shield.  Turns out that the top mica disk is the hottest point on any tube and there is about a 50 degree difference from the bottom mica of a tube to the second mica above the sheild. From the top mica to the tip is a 20 degree drop.
  In conclusion the socket savers do keep the amp slightly cooler
   
  just for fun i left the amp playing music for eight hours with tubes in the lyr. Amp 103.5 and knob 106.5 degrees.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


dailydoseofdaly said:


> *stuff about temperatures and whatnot*


 
   
  Well done, sir!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mmayer167 said:


> The Tungsram pcc88 got here today, did some swapping back and forth with the lorenz fused getters. (both tung and lorenz are from tubemonger)
> 
> Initial ear catcher was the loss in bass impact, not presence, but impact. The bass quality is still there but the impact and quantity is less. Still good but less (we're talking small amount here).
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the impressions!  Actually, those same qualities can be used to describe the Lorenz SEL tubes on TubeMonger as well:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm
   
  I've been listening to a set of those and would say they give you about 90% of the sound of the Lorenz Gray Plates, but lack in impact.  The SELs sound more detailed...perhaps noticeable because they lack the full-bodied Lorenz sound.
   
  Remember, my impressions are IMHO and YMMV...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Thanks for the impressions!  Actually, those same qualities can be used to describe the Lorenz SEL tubes on TubeMonger as well:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm
> ...


 



 I just got the Tungsram pcc88's in I can't stand them they fall to close to the bottom of my list of tubes guess they were worth 50.00 that's all I can say about them..I have already done my share of tube reviews thats all I got to say about dat.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Thanks Sridhar


----------



## mmayer167

^ haha i didnt think they were that bad...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> ^ haha i didnt think they were that bad...


 
  Me either...actually, they sounded pretty good to me.  I'd say they rate above the Lorenz SEL tubes I listened to earlier.  I'm sure MrScary is right in his rankings, but then again...he goes for sets of tubes that cost more than I can possibly afford.  I just deal in _volume_...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (46 sets at last count...)
  
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I just got the Tungsram pcc88's in I can't stand them they fall to close to the bottom of my list of tubes guess they were worth 50.00 that's all I can say about them..I have already done my share of tube reviews thats all I got to say about dat.


 


   
   
  Sorry to hear that about the Tungsram. Some users said "better than Lorenz". Oh well, now you know.


----------



## sperandeo

Just ordered a pair of these.
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB
   
  Time to set those tubes free!!!!!!


----------



## M-13

I'm curious, so where would the Tungs rank among your 46 sets? Obviously can't touch the Lorenz and Telefunken you have but what are some equivalents you think?
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Me either...actually, they sounded pretty good to me.  I'd say they rate above the Lorenz SEL tubes I listened to earlier.  I'm sure MrScary is right in his rankings, but then again...he goes for sets of tubes that cost more than I can possibly afford.  I just deal in _volume_...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## M-13

Thanks for the review mmayer167. I'm glad someone posted impressions compared to the Lorenz; I find it helpful. Just for reference what other tubes have you tried. I know you mentioned the GE and 6n23p, but any others? Also, what were the test scores from Tubmonger? I'm curious because another person posted Tungram tubes with insanely high scores... purchased in Japan I believe.
  
  Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> The Tungsram pcc88 got here today, did some swapping back and forth with the lorenz fused getters. (both tung and lorenz are from tubemonger)
> 
> Initial ear catcher was the loss in bass impact, not presence, but impact. The bass quality is still there but the impact and quantity is less. Still good but less (we're talking small amount here).
> 
> ...


----------



## Misterrogers

Fyi gang - I've just listed some Brimar Ediswan CV2492's, some Siemens (RCA) 6DJ8's ('65 and gray shield) and one pair of Lorenz PCC88 gray shields.


----------



## pseudohippy

How different are the Trimicas from the grey shield? Did you say the Trimica had similar [size=12.0pt]architecture[/size]? So do they sound the same also. Not sure Im totally in love with the Trimica yet and may want to try some more.


----------



## Misterrogers

To me, the gray shield is slightly more dimensional, and the trimica's have ever so slightly more detail. The gray shield is still very detailed in its own right. As usual, IMO, YMMV, etc. Thoughts HK_Sends?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Me either...actually, they sounded pretty good to me.  I'd say they rate above the Lorenz SEL tubes I listened to earlier.  I'm sure MrScary is right in his rankings, but then again...he goes for sets of tubes that cost more than I can possibly afford.  I just deal in _volume_...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They are not that bad I guess after listening to the 3-mica's I just was expecting something similar


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Just ordered a pair of these.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB
> 
> Time to set those tubes free!!!!!!


 


  Yeah I love them the tubes sticking up looks so cool hahaha


----------



## WNBC

Yup, tubes up and feet down


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

nice quality pics wnbc. amp looks like it's suspended in air.


----------



## WNBC

Schiit is saving that trick for the next statement amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> nice quality pics wnbc. amp looks like it's suspended in air.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> I'm curious, so where would the Tungs rank among your 46 sets? Obviously can't touch the Lorenz and Telefunken you have but what are some equivalents you think?


 
  I only have four hours on them so I don't want to hazard a guess but they do rank well on first impressions...
   
  Cheers!
  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> To me, the gray shield is slightly more dimensional, and the trimica's have ever so slightly more detail. The gray shield is still very detailed in its own right. As usual, IMO, YMMV, etc. Thoughts HK_Sends?


 
  For me, the trimicas have a smaller soundstage but more of a three dimensional sound...almost as if you can hear the layers of instrument tracks when they were mixing the music.
  The differences are subtle but detectable.  It would be worth trying them both...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> They are not that bad I guess after listening to the 3-mica's I just was expecting something similar


 
  I was just surprised the bass impact is there...not as smooth on the top end yet, but I need to give it more burn-in.  I don't think they'll ever equal the Lorenz, but they sound pretty good for a cheaper, more available tube.
  Not a bad alternative.  Of course IMHO, YMMV, IIRC, AFAIK, ASAP, FUBAR, SNAFU, and the like... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## firecommon

I don't even know what half of those abbreviations mean... lol are you making them up or am i just internet illterate? and why is ASAP in there? lol
   
  Anyway, I'm in the market for new tubes, since my stock GE's seem to be microphonic. I'm looking for some tubes that are not microphonic, cheap (<50$), and provide an upgrade over the stock GEs. 
   
  The tungs seem to be an option, but i am wondering if there are any other tubes that are under 50$ and provide an upgrade over the stock GE's. Yes i have seen Mr Scary's list of recommended tubes, but most of them are over 100$ or very very cheap, leading me to believe that they won't provide much of an upgrade.
   
  Of course, this assumption may be completely incorrect, but that's where i need you guys' help. I can't read allll of this huge thread... any recommendations for <50$ tubes will be much appreciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  thanks guys


----------



## pseudohippy

Take a look at this site http://vintageaudiotubes.com/?cat=38
   
  Looks like he has some Bugle Boy and maybe others in that price range plus a nice grading for each.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





firecommon said:


> *I don't even know what half of those abbreviations mean... lol are you making them up or am i just internet illterate? and why is ASAP in there? lol*
> 
> Anyway, I'm in the market for new tubes, since my stock GE's seem to be microphonic. I'm looking for some tubes that are not microphonic, cheap (<50$), and provide an upgrade over the stock GEs.
> 
> ...


 
  Ahem...
   
IMHO - "In My Humble Opinion"
YMMV - "Your Mileage May Vary" 
IIRC - "If I Remember Correctly"
AFAIK - "As Far As I Know" 
ASAP - "As Soon As Possible"...hey, I needed something extra to throw in.




FUBAR - "screw*D (Fouled) Up Beyond All Recognition"
SNAFU - "Situation Normal - All screw*D (Fouled) Up"
   
So remember WYSIWYG...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  And to answer your other question...look at PCC88s, ECC88s, and 6DJ8s.  You'll find quite a few under $50.  Hope that helps...


----------



## Misterrogers

Honestly, for $50  per pair, the Siemens (RCA) 6DJ8 tubes I have listed are hard to beat. Read up on them. 
  
  Quote: 





firecommon said:


> I don't even know what half of those abbreviations mean... lol are you making them up or am i just internet illterate? and why is ASAP in there? lol
> 
> Anyway, I'm in the market for new tubes, since my stock GE's seem to be microphonic. I'm looking for some tubes that are not microphonic, cheap (<50$), and provide an upgrade over the stock GEs.
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Honestly, for $50  per pair, the Siemens (RCA) 6DJ8 tubes I have listed are hard to beat. Read up on them.


 
  I have to agree.  I had a set for a while and they sounded great!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sperandeo

Free, free, set them free....
   
   
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Yup, tubes up and feet down


----------



## olor1n

Someone should really be branded a MoT if they're plying their wares in this thread.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Someone should really be branded a MoT if they're plying their wares in this thread.


 
  Well, they are listed in the for-sale thread...
  -HK sends


----------



## perfect-pitch

I know that we talked about the feets WNBC is using under his Lyr....but where can i get a set of them?
   
  Cheers
   
  perfect-pitch


----------



## WNBC

Ebay is where I got mine.  Then you'll just need some doubled 3M mounting squares or similar equivalent
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-Audio-Vibration-Isolation-Damper-Feet-4-Pcs-/300584676648?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fc3e2d28#ht_1658wt_1163
http://www.amazon.com/3M-311DC-Mounting-Squares-48-Squares/dp/B000KKPHZ8/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319985116&sr=8-1-fkmr0


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Ebay is where I got mine.  Then you'll just need some doubled 3M mounting squares or similar equivalent
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-Audio-Vibration-Isolation-Damper-Feet-4-Pcs-/300584676648?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fc3e2d28#ht_1658wt_1163
> http://www.amazon.com/3M-311DC-Mounting-Squares-48-Squares/dp/B000KKPHZ8/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319985116&sr=8-1-fkmr0


 


   
  Did they help with vibration any?


----------



## WNBC

I did it for aesthetic and cooling reasons.  The unit definitely doesn't feel as hot to the touch with the feet and tubemonger's socket saver all in place.  However as a lazy man's test, I tapped on the Lyr and I don't hear the vibrations resonating through to the headphones so it is working.  Before, I could tap on the Lyr anywhere and hear it through my headphones.  I keep the Lyr and DAC on a separate table from my desk so it doesn't get much vibrations from say me typing on a keyboard.  
  
  Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Did they help with vibration any?


----------



## perfect-pitch

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Ebay is where I got mine.  Then you'll just need some doubled 3M mounting squares or similar equivalent
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-Audio-Vibration-Isolation-Damper-Feet-4-Pcs-/300584676648?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fc3e2d28#ht_1658wt_1163
> http://www.amazon.com/3M-311DC-Mounting-Squares-48-Squares/dp/B000KKPHZ8/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319985116&sr=8-1-fkmr0


 


   
  Thanks. Do you put the Lyr with its 'original' feets on the other ones or do you use only these feets from ebay?
   
  Cheers!
   
  perfect-pitch


----------



## adydula

firecommon,
  $30 for a matched pair...wont break the bank and sound wonderful.....
   
http://www.boiaudioworks.com/6922EHMatchedPair
   
  Alex


----------



## WNBC

Throw out the Schiit feet.  Even if you decide to remove the ones from Ebay you can get better rubber feet than the ones provided by Schiit that provide more height.
   
http://www.amazon.com/Sorbothane-Hemisphere-Non-Skid-Adhesive-Durometer/dp/B003IMSIBA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320006798&sr=8-1
   
http://www.amazon.com/Sorbothane-Hemisphere-Non-skid-Adhesive-Durometer/dp/B005JRLQ20/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1320006798&sr=8-15

  
  Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Thanks. Do you put the Lyr with its 'original' feets on the other ones or do you use only these feets from ebay?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> perfect-pitch


----------



## Calypso

A set of 4 feet is all you need
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Sorbothane-4-x-19mm-Isolation-Pods-Domes-Feet-/370442018136?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5640109d58


----------



## perfect-pitch

I have bought the first ones WNBC has mentioned from Valab. I'll give them a try. Still waiting on the socket savers. Sometimes it's a long way from the US to germany.


----------



## Jasio

So, I've seen some mention of these:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_p/2000m.htm
   
  But has anyone actually pulled the trigger and rolled these into their Lyr?
   
  As the type of tube recommendations have changed throughout the 145 pages of this thread... what do you folks suggest for someone who mostly listens to Trance/Electronic music and might be looking for more bass impact over the stock E88CC's- I don't want to overdo the bass but recommendations would be nice. I've been recommended Mullard E88CC's (http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_Like_New_1969_78_E88CC_CV2492_Mitcham_p/541.htm) but other suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jasio said:


> So, I've seen some mention of these:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_p/2000m.htm
> 
> ...


 
  For the Mullard CV4109s, I believe Misterrogers has tried those or similar tubes...another possible person is MrScary.  I would love to try them, but they are a little out of my price range at the moment.
   
  As for recommendations, in my limited experience, I have found that ECC88/PCC88 tubes have a more appealing bottom end than the E88CCs.  For a cheaper alternative, you may also try 6DJ8s...some of the good ones (like RCA) are harder to find but aren't as astronomically expensive as the ECC88/PCC88 tubes.
   
  If you have a chance to try any of those tubes, please post your impressions to give an idea how they sound to you.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Free, free, set them free....


 


  looks good


----------



## MrScary

I have tried them and sold them not worth 325.00 a pair I would give 150.00 for them tops


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





jasio said:


> So, I've seen some mention of these:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_p/2000m.htm
> 
> ...


 
  I have tried them and sold them not worth 325.00 a pair I would give 150.00 for them tops


----------



## Jasio

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I have tried them and sold them not worth 325.00 a pair I would give 150.00 for them tops


 


  Could you provide some alternative tubes that you believe have better bass extension and impact (over stock JJ E88CC)? I am not too worried about budget, I'd like to stay under $150 for a matched pair but suggestions are much appreciated.
   
  @HK_sends - thanks, I will take a look at some alternative ECC88/PCC88 - any particular model suggestions?


----------



## okw3188

Just went to tubemonger website, anyone knows what is the difference between the 9 pin tube saver and the 9 pin tube flipper? Can I use the tube flipper on my Lyr?


----------



## Eisenbart

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the flippers switch the triodes around and should give your tubes a longer lifespan. But they aren't meant to be used for the entire lifespan of your tubes, just part of it. Half if I had to guess. The socket saver is for those who switch tubes frequently and don't want to loosen the socket on their amp, or who just want to get the tubes up and out of the case.
   
  So yes, you can use the tube flippers, but they shouldn't be a permanent fixture.


----------



## 333jeffery

I wouldn't pay what Tubemonger is asking. I bought my Mullards off of ebay for about $23.


----------



## Misterrogers

Gang, let's just be sure to compare apple to apples. Their are many different Mullards, even in just the E188CC type. Some sonically better, or rarer. The specific ones referenced in the link about have been modified with their own bakelite base. I can't speak to the benefit/value of this, just that it's not your run of the mill Mullard.
  
  Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> I wouldn't pay what Tubemonger is asking. I bought my Mullards off of ebay for about $23.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


jasio said:


> Could you provide some alternative tubes that you believe have better bass extension and impact (over stock JJ E88CC)? I am not too worried about budget, I'd like to stay under $150 for a matched pair but suggestions are much appreciated.
> 
> *@HK_sends - thanks, I will take a look at some alternative ECC88/PCC88 - any particular model suggestions?*


 
  If you can get some Lorenz gray-plate or 3-mica PCC88 tubes, that would be my first suggestion.  There are a variety of ECC88s out there but I would suggest some Siemens or Mullards (O-getter or A-Frame).  I am finding Tungsram PCC88s to have an analytical sound with some bass imapact.  I am not too sure about other PCC88 tubes...I have some Matsu****a and Valvo tri-mica tubes on the way and will post impressions.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends 

 PS - Now the editor is filtering out four letter words...even a Japanese brand like "Matsu****a" isn't safe!


----------



## Jasio

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> If you can get some Lorenz gray-plate or 3-mica PCC88 tubes, that would be my first suggestion.  There are a variety of ECC88s out there but I would suggest some Siemens or Mullards (O-getter or A-Frame).  I am finding Tungsram PCC88s to have an analytical sound with some bass imapact.  I am not too sure about other PCC88 tubes...I have some Matsu****a and Valvo tri-mica tubes on the way and will post impressions.
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


 


  While it might not be 100% accurate, you can just say 'Panasonic' tubes even though that suggests they'd be fairly modern. I guess you can use 'Matsu' since I think most folks will clue in.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jasio said:


> While it might not be 100% accurate, you can just say 'Panasonic' tubes even though that suggests they'd be fairly modern. I guess you can use 'Matsu' since I think most folks will clue in.


 
  Even better: Matsuschiita 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## okw3188

Thanks for the information, anyone can confirm about flipping socket?


----------



## okw3188

Just got a reply from tubemonger, it is good to be used on the Lyr. I guess when they said flipping socket, it is actually changing the inputs to the twin triode within the tube itself.


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Thanks. Do you put the Lyr with its 'original' feets on the other ones or do you use only these feets from ebay?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> perfect-pitch


 
  Actually, what you do is you go to Herbies Audio Lab .com & order three Clear Iso Cups w/ the lampblack balls & put the Lyr on top of them w/ no feet. I swear I detected a little more low level detail when I placed the Lyr on them. (& this was with the stock tubes before I installed my Mullards)


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

^ they are kinda pricey but they look sweet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  You say three will do?


----------



## M-13

Oh man... we love our Lyr so much we're playing dress up with it now. (giggles like a little girl)


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Oh man... we love our Lyr so much we're playing dress up with it now. (giggles like a little girl)


 


  lol, with that said their tube dampers look pretty decent as well
   
   
  Link
  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/products.htm


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> ^ they are kinda pricey but they look sweet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, a triangular configuration about 1/3 of the way in from each side. On the volume control side I placed 1 about half way between the front & back of the player, the other 2 I've placed each about 1/3 of the way from the front & back. With as little you've spent on your Lyr (given it's actual value) it deserves this quality isolation.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

^ thanks for the tip. It's no doubt that the lyr is a great value, what gets you is the extras ie tubes!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Did you try their dampers by chance?


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> ^ thanks for the tip. It's no doubt that the lyr is a great value, what gets you is the extras ie tubes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have'nt tried the tube dampers yet. All the tubes I've used w/ the Lyr so far have been dead silent & have'nt displayed any microphonic problems(knock on wood). Looking at the way my Mullard CV2492s sit in my Lyr I don't see how dampers would fit . Should I decide to put dampers on my tubes I think would have to paint a ring of AVM (which I just happen to have, this is great stuff also) on the tubes . Unless I'm not seeing something (Unless you are using that tube socket raiser available from tubemonger. Hmmm....I may have try them.)


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

^ yeah i dont think you could get the damper on there with out the socket savers. Im not familiar with AVM, so i looked it up, does that stuff work?


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> ^ yeah i dont think you could get the damper on there with out the socket savers. Im not familiar with AVM, so i looked it up, does that stuff work?


 
  I seem to think it does. I painted all the capacitors on the power supply board & the toroidal transformer inside  my Oppo 95 with it . My "noise floor" was pretty low before this tweek I honestly believe that the "between the notes" silence is eeriely quieter than it was. This is one of those strange parameters where you thought you were hearing silence before where you now hear ambient detail at such low levels you realize that "noise floor" was'nt as low as you thought it was because something was masking those details you did'nt even know existed. I don't know , maybe if you used state of the art passive components for all the parts in your components this stuff might not make any difference, but most "affordable" equipment is built to a price point . My guess is that damping materials on a micro level  is additive to the overall completed quality of the component.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Sounds good. The only issue I can see is perhaps lower resale value. For instance the photo on the website shows a tube with the label painted over. Although if you plan to keep the mullard, I would be interested to know how effective the paint is.


----------



## knowhatimean

At this point, my "undampered bottles" are working for me just fine. Those Mullards are'nt going anywhere until I decide to "roll" a different set in, in which case I will rebox the Mullards for future consideration. (I think I'll be a little "stingy" w/ my tubes, unless I can run into a great deal on more than I can use, then I'll spread the wealth. What was that movie "Pass it on" ?). As far as selling my Oppo goes, I got a good chuckle out of that. I've been at this "hobby" about 30yrs now & I'm getting real close to what I use to hear spinning my hi-end vinyl set-up, with the Oppo 95. Having a good DAC(which this player does) is only part of getting great sound, not the complete solution that many people believe it to be. The Oppo 95 is worth a lot more than the asking price if you realize it's potential as a "music player" & develop those aspects of the unit.


----------



## pseudohippy

Bummer day here. I made a big mistake and when I went to bed the night before last I forgot to turn my Lyr off and when I got up in the morning I was in a rush to work and never noticed that I forgot the amp on the night before. Well I ended up going to a friends house after work to help him stack wood and visit. I got home last night and saw it on and quickly ran over to see how hot it might have been. Never left it on for more than maybe 6hrs before. It didnt actually seem crazy hot but I turned it off for the night. I just turned it on a few minutes ago and one of my NOS Lorenz Trimicas is expired. The ring thing at the top is collapsed on one side and the other is in the air. Thats the only difference I see between the two. So, I guess I need to go hold a funeral now and move on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for reading this eulogy.


----------



## HK_sends

I'm sorry for your loss.  Is the amp still ok?
   
  -HK sends


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I'm sorry for your loss.  Is the amp still ok?
> 
> -HK sends


 


  Yup, the amp seems fine. Threw in the Mullards and all seems good. Been listening a couple hours now. You make me wonder though, would that fall outside of the terms of the Schiit 5 year warranty as not normal operation? Either way I was worried about the amp at first and am relieved about the tube, even though Im really gonna miss it.


----------



## Misterrogers

Wow, sorry to hear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I suspect that leaving the amp on wouldn't in anyway invalidate your warranty. Still though - it's a shame to prematurely loose such a stellar tube.
  
  Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Yup, the amp seems fine. Threw in the Mullards and all seems good. Been listening a couple hours now. You make me wonder though, would that fall outside of the terms of the Schiit 5 year warranty as not normal operation? Either way I was worried about the amp at first and am relieved about the tube, even though Im really gonna miss it.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Bummer day here. I made a big mistake and when I went to bed the night before last I forgot to turn my Lyr off and when I got up in the morning I was in a rush to work and never noticed that I forgot the amp on the night before. Well I ended up going to a friends house after work to help him stack wood and visit. I got home last night and saw it on and quickly ran over to see how hot it might have been. Never left it on for more than maybe 6hrs before. It didnt actually seem crazy hot but I turned it off for the night. I just turned it on a few minutes ago and one of my NOS Lorenz Trimicas is expired. The ring thing at the top is collapsed on one side and the other is in the air. Thats the only difference I see between the two. So, I guess I need to go hold a funeral now and move on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So the getter ring came apart? I am not sure I understand. There is no sound from the side where that tube is? Odd, as the amp should be able to be on for that length of time without a problem. Nor, should it adversely affect the tube unless for some strange reason they get extremely hot but when I was in the Navy, I was a radioman and with all tube equipment. You talk about equipment getting hot, so much more than most of you can imagine and the tubes trucked on so something else has to be up here. Do you have an image?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

pseudo my condolences. i suspect it was the tube and not amp as well. When i get nos tubes i burn them in with music for over a week straight (200hrs) and new made tubes about 100hrs, no breaks. Your amp should be fine


----------



## pseudohippy

Jamato8, Im pretty much a no nothing with this stuff so I really dont like to try to talk about them in fear I say something that is wrong. I can take an image of them but my 11month old is in hyper mode. Ill get it on here later tonight so you can take a look.  Another note, I am using the Socket Savers from Tubemongers but that should only help. I dont remember, do you have a Lyr? Im just wondering if your familiar with how hot the tubes actually get? Im asking because I did notice in normal operation they do get hotter than with my WA2 but perhaps that still shouldnt matter? I have no clue what matters lol. Anyhow, thanks for reading.
   
  EDIT: What the heck, took some photos for fun. Here they are if your interested to see what occurred. If you click the picture larger you should be able to see what I was talking about.
   
  PS to the story, the super cool headfi member already contacted me and I have another set on the way so I wont be without my Lorenz for long. Not sure if that person wants me to announce them publicly though for fear of being bombarded with want to buy PM's.


----------



## adydula

If a tube shorts out it can draw excessive current and it may cause damage to components. I had a short and it took our a grid bias resistor in a few seconds....nice "pop" no sound in one channel....this was NOT a Lyr amp, but tubes shorting can cause all kinds of havoc..welcome to tube world.
   
  This still would not deter me from tube gear and my Lyr is a great little amp for sure!
   
  Alex


----------



## sperandeo

I really wonder if this would have happened if you were using the socket savers and you had those tubes totally out of the case.


----------



## knowhatimean

Just curious, do you guys change your tubes when they start displaying "any" bit of noise they did'nt previously during playback? I've always changed them if I even think I've heard a small "puft" or other sound coming from the tubes or if notice the upper frequency notes seem to trail on slighty longer. If I think I noticed a difference it's gone (that's why we should have at least 2 sets of tubes at all times, "it's in the tube rollers manual" oh that's right that does'nt really exist. Another thing "Uncle Steve" does if he leaves the listening for other than a glass of wine or tastykake is stop the CD player (I have no problem leaving that powered on, it's a digital component & they don't sound their best right after turning them on) is turn off any tube amps(they will be at least OK sounding after 15 or 20 min. warmup). Tubes are a little more "work" than solid state (almost like vinyl is) but worth the extra work. If the tubes are on when your not there they have an opportuniity to "act up" (just like kids) . Think of your tubes as your kids, they behave most of the time with proper supervision, but they're not ready to act independently at all times(yeah, I'm losin' it) Who knows what those tubes are capable of if you're not there? (just remember..tubes/kids)


----------



## Argo Duck

Tubes = kids?! I think you just took the fun out of my tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





knowhatimean said:


> <snip> (just remember..tubes/kids)


----------



## M-13

Wow.. that's scary... I'll be on the look out for possible tube failure. What are some clear signs that the tubes must be switched out? (So I'll know and not miss it before they short out)
   
  @Pseudohippy
   
  Sorry for your loss; those were some fine tubes... When I first got my Lyr. I left the GE Tubes on for five days, just to burn them in. Nothing happened. Those Lorenz tubes are PCC88, which means they should be running slightly cold. I wonder why they failed.
   
  @HK_sends
   
  How are those Mashuschiita E88CC Tubes working out? I would be interested in a comparison between them and the Tungsram PCC88? My top two "afforadable" choices I'm considering. Any help would be appreciated.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> If a tube shorts out it can draw excessive current and it may cause damage to components. I had a short and it took our a grid bias resistor in a few seconds....nice "pop" no sound in one channel....this was NOT a Lyr amp, but tubes shorting can cause all kinds of havoc..welcome to tube world.
> 
> This still would not deter me from tube gear and my Lyr is a great little amp for sure!
> 
> Alex


----------



## Argo Duck

Just early impressions. I received and installed a pair on 10/26. Limited listening time to date, but _I like them_. I discussed them with another headfier before purchase; I agree with his summation of them as "wonderful earthy tubes with fantastic bass" (thanks MH).
   
  To my ears the stock GE 6BZ7's are neutral yet tuneful, with a very slightly thicker midrange and good extension both ways. The Matsu's can be described as similar but much, much better. There's detail or resolution that extends into the bass, hence nuance. It's the first time my beloved Concerto (SS) amp has been made to sound "dry", without the explanation being over-lush or syrupy tubes (thinking especially of the stock JJ E88CCs).
   
  Whilst I might still say the Concerto is more unerringly neutral - and there's a spectral difference in emphasis that might call these tubes "warm and slightly dark" to the Concerto's "neutral and slightly bright" - this would be to overstate things. Neither gives anything up to the other in terms of detail or reach into either the treble or bass end. I find the Matsu's highly satisfying.
   
  I've got nice things to say about some RCA 6DJ8s too (thanks Misterrogers!), but they are decidedly more neutral or cooler sounding to my ears. They run closer to the Concerto sound.
   
  The Tungrams I have not heard sorry, and do not plan to buy. I look forward to what HK_sends has to say too...
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> <snip>
> *How are those Mashuschiita E88CC Tubes working out?* I would be interested in a comparison between them and the Tungsram PCC88? My top two "afforadable" choices I'm considering. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## M-13

WOW Thanks, I appreciate your impressions. I will definitely be trying them out for sure. I'm new to tubes, but I love the musical warm sounds they make over a traditional solid state amp. I get lost in the music when listening to tubes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Just early impressions. I received and installed a pair on 10/26. Limited listening time to date, but _I like them_. I discussed them with another headfier before purchase; I agree with his summation of them as "wonderful earthy tubes with fantastic bass" (thanks MH).
> 
> To my ears the stock GE 6BZ7's are neutral yet tuneful, with a very slightly thicker midrange and good extension both ways. The Matsu's can be described as similar but much, much better. There's detail or resolution that extends into the bass, hence nuance. It's the first time my beloved Concerto (SS) amp has been made to sound "dry", without the explanation being over-lush or syrupy tubes (thinking especially of the stock JJ E88CCs).
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


m-13 said:


> Wow.. that's scary... I'll be on the look out for possible tube failure. What are some clear signs that the tubes must be switched out? (So I'll know and not miss it before they short out)
> 
> @Pseudohippy
> 
> ...


 
  I am still waiting on the Matsu*** tubes to arrive (from Europe, ironically).  I will be happy to offer a comparison when they arrive.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> I am still waiting on the Matsu*** tubes to arrive (from Europe, ironically).  I will be happy to offer a comparison when they arrive.
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


 

 Great tubes...among the best for bass impact for the Lyr IMO.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





knowhatimean said:


> Just curious, do you guys change your tubes when they start displaying "any" bit of noise they did'nt previously during playback? I've always changed them if I even think I've heard a small "puft" or other sound coming from the tubes or if notice the upper frequency notes seem to trail on slighty longer. If I think I noticed a difference it's gone (that's why we should have at least 2 sets of tubes at all times, "it's in the tube rollers manual" oh that's right that does'nt really exist. Another thing "Uncle Steve" does if he leaves the listening for other than a glass of wine or tastykake is stop the CD player (I have no problem leaving that powered on, it's a digital component & they don't sound their best right after turning them on) is turn off any tube amps(they will be at least OK sounding after 15 or 20 min. warmup). Tubes are a little more "work" than solid state (almost like vinyl is) but worth the extra work. If the tubes are on when your not there they have an opportuniity to "act up" (just like kids) . Think of your tubes as your kids, they behave most of the time with proper supervision, but they're not ready to act independently at all times(yeah, I'm losin' it) Who knows what those tubes are capable of if you're not there? (just remember..tubes/kids)


 


  Ummmm yeah right


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Bummer day here. I made a big mistake and when I went to bed the night before last I forgot to turn my Lyr off and when I got up in the morning I was in a rush to work and never noticed that I forgot the amp on the night before. Well I ended up going to a friends house after work to help him stack wood and visit. I got home last night and saw it on and quickly ran over to see how hot it might have been. Never left it on for more than maybe 6hrs before. It didnt actually seem crazy hot but I turned it off for the night. I just turned it on a few minutes ago and one of my NOS Lorenz Trimicas is expired. The ring thing at the top is collapsed on one side and the other is in the air. Thats the only difference I see between the two. So, I guess I need to go hold a funeral now and move on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Leaving the amp on shoudn't hurt a thing. I have left mine on for 5 days straight before, even running my CCa's and no probs. Seems like you got a bum tube thats a shame the Lorenz Trimicas are very nice. But again leaving on the amp had nothing to do with losing a tube they are rated at 5,000 to 10,000 hours for 6DBJ and probably longer for the 7DBJ since we are not putting the whole 7 volts into the heater..


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Leaving the amp on shoudn't hurt a thing. I have left mine on for 5 days straight before, even running my CCa's and no probs. Seems like you got a bum tube thats a shame the Lorenz Trimicas are very nice. But again leaving on the amp had nothing to do with losing a tube they are rated at 5,000 to 10,000 hours for 6DBJ and probably longer for the 7DBJ since we are not putting the whole 7 volts into the heater..


 

 Yeah, I was just noting my only guess since that was the only thing that was different and I know all the talk about these things getting so hot. Ive just never left it on consecutively for anywhere near that long bofore and thats exactly when it happened. Amp never moved or was even touched. But it sounds like the consensus is that leaving it on had nothing to do with it. I have no clue about this stuff. I got new ones on the way now so all is good anyhow.


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Ummmm yeah right


 
  I'm sorry, yeah right what ? I'm just saying "I" prefer to know when a tube or anything that happens to my Lyr started. I'm not around & I don't know if anything happened I don't have a heads up a week or month or whenever I have an amp failure that something actually occurred before the failure. I don't really care that it's okay to leave the amp running constantly, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if a tube failure can cause an amp to fail. If I'm there when it fails I know eactly what happened when it failed. I know you are the "tube rolling guru" over here ,but you could cut those of us who are guessing some slack or just point out what you think is unnecessary & why.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





knowhatimean said:


> I'm sorry, yeah right what ? I'm just saying "I" prefer to know when a tube or anything that happens to my Lyr started. I'm not around & I don't know if anything happened I don't have a heads up a week or month or whenever I have an amp failure that something actually occurred before the failure. I don't really care that it's okay to leave the amp running constantly, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if a tube failure can cause an amp to fail. If I'm there when it fails I know eactly what happened when it failed. I know you are the "tube rolling guru" over here ,but you could cut those of us who are guessing some slack or just point out what you think is unnecessary & why.


 


  I was just giving you a friendly hard time hahaha you would have to know me to understand.


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey Mates. I listed a well matched pair of Siemens & Halske CCa chrome shields in classifieds. I suspect they'll not last long, so I wanted to give my fellow Lyr tube rollers a heads up.


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I was just giving you a friendly hard time hahaha you would have to know me to understand.


 
  Well, I guess I should come a little clean. I will occasionally leave my Lyr running for an hour(or two tops) unattended(but I will turn the volume to it's minimum position;don't really know if that makes any difference but I feel a little better.) So I'm enjoying my Mullard CV2492 1969-78 No Labels a lot, but I'm breaking my own rule about having a backup set. Anything similar to these (same price range of course,or close) that you like a bit more, thanks


----------



## WNBC

Do what makes you feel comfortable.  I ran my Lyr this entire weekend, volume knob @ 10-12 o'clock.  Probably psychological but it sounds better after being on for 24 hours.  Most likely it sounds better at 24 hours vs 1/2 hour of warm-up.  The tubemonger socket savers and some Ebay aftermarket feet do result in a cooler running Lyr so if you are willing to spend $50 + $20 you can run your Lyr longer and cooler.  However, even before all of that accessorizing I ran my Lyr for days with no issues.  If I was burning tubes in over the summer I would turn on a small quiet fan if I was going to be away for a couple hours and overnight.  All for peace of mind but kind of overkill.  
   
  MrScary is only scary on the outside.  On the Inside he's a computer programmer and that's not so scary 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





knowhatimean said:


> Well, I guess I should come a little clean. *I will occasionally leave my Lyr running for an hour(or two tops) unattended(but I will turn the volume to it's minimum position;don't really know if that makes any difference but I feel a little better.) *So I'm enjoying my Mullard CV2492 1969-78 No Labels a lot, but I'm breaking my own rule about having a backup set. Anything similar to these (same price range of course,or close) that you like a bit more, thanks


----------



## knowhatimean

Nope, I don't think it's psychological at all. Stablized circuits leave the signal to do it's thing more quickly with less interuptions. So "let them suckers simmer" & they'll sound more detailed, huh? Oh yeah, I have a set of those "socket savers" from tubemongers on the way. I ordered them last week. Contrary to the old saying maybe an old "cautious till he knows more"dog can learn new tricks! If anyone is interested I ordered & received 4 more Iso-Cups w/ the lampblack balls & placed them under my CD/SACD player(Oppo 95)(don't need no stinkin video from this one) & yet again upped the overall frequency response smoothness slightly(not that it has'nt been smooth & very detailed lately) . My digital is sounding very analog (good analog) these days!


----------



## adydula

Read the tube failure modes and details here:
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermionic_valves
   
  More often than not tubes will give no warning. Sometimes they will glow brighter than normal, changes in loudness in channels etc.
   
  I have run tubes in many.many devices and for hundreds and hundreds of hours with no issues at all.
   
  Then I have had a nice high end amplifier, normal 2 ch amp and a tube in it shorted after 20 hours or so and took out a grid resistor.
   
  Turning tubes on and off repeatedly without letting them cool down etc. the inrush of current etc...not good.
   
  There are circuit design things that can help.There are so many dependancies here.
   
  Treat them kindly, mechanical bumps and jarring when hot, allow them to warm up etc.
   
  They will not last forever, but for the most part they will last a very long time.
   
  Alex


----------



## sperandeo

i just installed my socket savers 
   
  free free set them free
   




  Dead Sexy!


----------



## knowhatimean

Which tubes are you using , they appear huge. (or do the savers raise the tubes that much,I guess I'll find out soon enough when mine come)


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





knowhatimean said:


> Which tubes are you using , they appear huge. (or do the savers raise the tubes that much,I guess I'll find out soon enough when mine come)


 

 I'm using 1960's Stuttgart Lorenz PC88 (squats). 
   
  I must be hearing things, because I could swear my Lyr sounds better with the extenders....What???


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> I'm using 1960's Stuttgart Lorenz PC88 (squats).
> 
> I must be hearing things, because I could swear my Lyr sounds better with the extenders....What???


 

 You hearing things the extenders make no sonic difference I tested that theory with about 10 tube sets..


----------



## xxhaxx

MrScary: Since  the extender have vibration dampening stuff wouldn't it help with excess noise caused by the transformer and other stuff thus making the sound to be more clear (not sure if it really does 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## WNBC

The extenders haven't improved SQ for me but at the very least they haven't reduced SQ and that's good enough to go along with the cooler Lyr.
  My Lyr is on a separate table from my desk so it's not getting vibration from me typing away.
   


sperandeo said:


> I'm using 1960's Stuttgart Lorenz PC88 (squats).
> I must be hearing things, because I could swear my Lyr sounds better with the extenders....What???


 


mrscary said:


> You hearing things the extenders make no sonic difference I tested that theory with about 10 tube sets..


 


> Originally Posted by *xxhaxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> MrScary: Since  the extender have vibration dampening stuff wouldn't it help with excess noise caused by the transformer and other stuff thus making the sound to be more clear (not sure if it really does
> 
> ...


----------



## mmayer167

If your using sensitive phones yea the vibration damp of the socksaver may help some.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I cant listen to iem's out of my lyr... sid the sssssnake comes to visit!! haha  
   
  M


----------



## MrScary

I guess that's possible but is it enough for the human ear to perceive it?
  hmmm Im not quite so sure but anything is possible


----------



## obazavil

Hmm...
   
  I'm getting a hiss with my lorenz 3-micca, but is dead silent with my gray micca.
   
  I will test today at night again, I do really hope hiss goes away when they warm... truly do.
   
  And... indeed, LCD2+Lyr rocks


----------



## knowhatimean

You guys keep talking about these Lorenz tubes, what's the difference between these & my CV2492 Mullards. Where are these Lorenz available from ? Thanks


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


knowhatimean said:


> You guys keep talking about these Lorenz tubes, what's the difference between these & my CV2492 Mullards. Where are these Lorenz available from ? Thanks


 
  The Lorenz PCC88 tubes popped up for sale on TubeMonger a few months ago.  Someone (I don't remember who) tried them with the Lyr and found they had sound quality that approached the Siemens CCa tube but with excellent bass extension (which, to me at least, the CCa's seemed to lack).  Tubemonger had several different types of Lorenz PCC88s to include gray-shield, gray-shield fused getter, gray shield white label, Squat Bottle, and three-mica (or tri-mica).  The tubes were all manufactured in Hamburg _Stuttgart_ and are now very hard to find (I suspect some head-fi hoarding took place, but I plead the 5th Amendment
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
  They just seem to be excellent all-around tubes and pair real well with the Lyr.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Two additions/comments:
 1. That would be me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  2. The early Lorenz we're enjoying were made in Stuttgart, not Hamberg.
   
  Cheers HK!
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> The Lorenz PCC88 tubes popped up for sale on TubeMonger a few months ago. * Someone (I don't remember who) tried them with the Lyr and found they had sound quality that approached the Siemens CCa tube but with excellent bass extension (which, to me at least, the CCa's seemed to lack)*.  Tubemonger had several different types of Lorenz PCC88s to include gray-shield, gray-shield fused getter, gray shield white label, Squat Bottle, and three-mica (or tri-mica).  The tubes were all manufactured in Hamburg and are now very hard to find (I suspect some head-fi hoarding took place, but I plead the 5th Amendment
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


misterrogers said:


> Two additions/comments:
> 1. That would be me
> 
> 
> ...


 
  1. So..._YOU'RE_ the one hoarding them!?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  2. Oops!  I knew that...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  but it was lunchtime and I had hamburger on the brain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## koonhua90

Right now I have collected a pair of Siemens E188CC (70s), Amperex USN 6922 (1965), Amperex 7308 (60s), and a pair of Valvo E88CC and Mullard CV 2493 (1975) coming soon. I might still get a pair of Telefunken. Most likely after I compare all the tubes I will sell most of them and stick to two or three pairs.

 Now, if only the LCD-3 will start shipping so I can get the Lyr...


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


misterrogers said:


> Two additions/comments:
> 1. That would be me
> 
> 
> ...


 

 >_<
   
  Now I know who to come to if I need a second pair.


----------



## Misterrogers

Heh - I better qualify my first comment; I'm the one who first posted impressions of Lorenz tubes in this thread. Now I HAVE supplied a number of you with pairs of these tubes (and others), and hopefully will do so in the future. I've identified a couple of german tube suppliers that turn up some Lorenz tubes now and then - and I have a standing order to buy up any they find 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. When I track more down, I'll post them on my site and give a shout out.
   
  Cheers!
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> >_<
> 
> Now I know who to come to if I need a second pair.


----------



## HK_sends

Sorry if I...put you on the spot.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  It was meant in good fun.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

No worries mate - I took it that way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It also seemed like a good time to let everyone know that there's a strong chance we'll have more of these tubes available soon. 
   
  Cheers!


----------



## sridhar3

All in good fun, gentlemen.  All in good fun.
   
  But seriously, I'll rob your asses.
   
  Can you imagine some guy leaping out a window, arms full of vacuum tubes, being chased by a pack of dobermans?  Wouldn't that be a picture.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> All in good fun, gentlemen.  All in good fun.
> 
> But seriously, I'll rob your asses.
> 
> Can you imagine some guy leaping out a window, arms full of vacuum tubes, being chased by a pack of dobermans?  Wouldn't that be a picture.


 
  It won't be the fall (or the dobermans) that kills you, it will be the glass tube shards when you hit the pavement. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  ...watch that last step!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sperandeo

Funny thing I noticed tonight and I thought I would share it. 
   
  I hear a constant low buzz with my 1960's Stuttgart Lorenz PC88 (squats) installed in my Lyr. The buzz is very low from 0-11 o'clock (Lyr volume). Then remains at the same level from 12:00-3:00. 3:00 is the loudest buzz. Then it totally vanishes if I turn up the Lyr to 100%. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  ​
  Would it be foolish to leave the Lyr at 100% and control my volume from my source?
   
  Being new to the the tube world, I'm wondering if a tiny buzz is something you just live with?
   
  I don't hear the buzz at all when music is playing.


----------



## M-13

Release the hounds...
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> All in good fun, gentlemen.  All in good fun.
> 
> But seriously, I'll rob your asses.
> 
> Can you imagine some guy leaping out a window, arms full of vacuum tubes, being chased by a pack of dobermans?  Wouldn't that be a picture.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> No worries mate - I took it that way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I hope so I need a few sets of trimicas


----------



## HK_sends

Me too!
   
  -HK sends


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Funny thing I noticed tonight and I thought I would share it.
> 
> I hear a constant low buzz with my 1960's Stuttgart Lorenz PC88 (squats) installed in my Lyr. The buzz is very low from 0-11 o'clock (Lyr volume). Then remains at the same level from 12:00-3:00. 3:00 is the loudest buzz. Then it totally vanishes if I turn up the Lyr to 100%.
> 
> ...


 
  I personally would not leave my Lyr are 100 and control by my source. My source is a PC and I just wouldnt trust myself to not slip, or for something on the internet to pump full blast through my headphones.
  
  I guess it would depend on the source. I hope some others post up on this but Im guess most would not want to do that.


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Funny thing I noticed tonight and I thought I would share it.
> 
> I hear a constant low buzz with my 1960's Stuttgart Lorenz PC88 (squats) installed in my Lyr. The buzz is very low from 0-11 o'clock (Lyr volume). Then remains at the same level from 12:00-3:00. 3:00 is the loudest buzz. Then it totally vanishes if I turn up the Lyr to 100%.
> 
> ...


 


  It sounds like there might be something wrong with the volume control (a bad resistor somewhere) . Not knowing enough about how circuits works I'm not sure if this noise problem could change at some point in the future to where it might showup at any volume. To be safe I'd contact Jason (or whoever at Schiit) & let him know your problem . It could be something simple, I don't know that trusting that using the amp at !00% volume is your best bet, it's not the choice I would be cormfortable with! Good Luck & give Schiit an email or call. Yeah, I know you just want to enjoy your new toy, but you're better off getting things right first, why chance future aggravations!


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Funny thing I noticed tonight and I thought I would share it.
> 
> I hear a constant low buzz with my 1960's Stuttgart Lorenz PC88 (squats) installed in my Lyr. The buzz is very low from 0-11 o'clock (Lyr volume). Then remains at the same level from 12:00-3:00. 3:00 is the loudest buzz. Then it totally vanishes if I turn up the Lyr to 100%.
> 
> ...


 

 I can't believe you'd even contemplate that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What if a mishap occurs at the source stage? Don't do this. Protect your headphones, but more importantly, protect your ears!
   
  Edit: I find it highly improbable socket savers could affect sound for the better. I do like the cosmetic tweak, so can someone please post a link to the socket savers you guys are using? Are they any different to the generic ones listed on ebay?


----------



## sperandeo

I guess I should swap the stock tubes back in to see if the buzz is still present. 
   
  I have a feeling it may just be a minor tube buzz. 
   
  I'll try this and post the results.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I can't believe you'd even contemplate that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> I guess I should swap the stock tubes back in to see if the buzz is still present.
> 
> I have a feeling it may just be a minor tube buzz.
> 
> I'll try this and post the results.


 


   
  I think the problem is minor tube buzz as well. My Lorenz 3mica's have had the same low buzz/hum since I've had them. Alot of my other tube dont have that hum, but alot of my other tubes don't sound as good as the 3micas, so I deal. You can't hear it when music is playing right?


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I think the problem is minor tube buzz as well. My Lorenz 3mica's have had the same low buzz/hum since I've had them. Alot of my other tube dont have that hum, but alot of my other tubes don't sound as good as the 3micas, so I deal. You can't hear it when music is playing right?


 


  UPDATE:
   
  I had noticed that buzz 2 days ago. Yesterday I listened to my music (same everything) and the buzz was gone. I turned the volume knob to different volumes and there was no buzz to be found. I listened at 2 different times during the day, turning everything off then on again. No buzz.
   
  If its something that happens intermittently, I'm wondering if it may actually be the amp and not the tubes. 
   
  Any thoughts?


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> I had noticed that buzz 2 days ago. Yesterday I listened to my music (same everything) and the buzz was gone. I turned the volume knob to different volumes and there was no buzz to be found. I listened at 2 different times during the day, turning everything off then on again. No buzz.
> 
> ...


 

 What has Jason said about it?


----------



## adydula

Did you ever put the original tubes back in when you had this mystical 'buzz'?? I would think this would be the first thing that you would do to isolate the issue?????
   
  The most variable part of this situation is the 'TUBES'...they are they worst failure point in this amp to me and many other types of tube gear.
   
  I have thrown out 'MANY' tubes that exhibit wierd traits, from buzzing, hissing and microphonics....
   
  Aint tubes just wonderful!!
   
  LOL
   
  Alex


----------



## koonhua90

Alas I just drop the bomb on the LCD-3 and the Lyr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You guys can expect good words from me soon, too bad the Mullard tubes won't come in till a few weeks from now.


----------



## WNBC

That's great.  I want to hear opinions of the LCD-3 with non-uber expensive amps.  Keep us informed.
  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Alas I just drop the bomb on the LCD-3 and the Lyr
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## okw3188

Just installed tubemonger triode flipper socket onto my Lyr with Telefunken (Siemens made) 7dj8. Somehow the soundstage improves, I guess its the damping provided by the socket.


----------



## knowhatimean

I don't know how service is with other tube vendors is but I have to report my dealings w/ Tubemonger have been nothing less than exceptional. I ordered a matched pair of Siemens E88CC/6922 NOS 1974 A Frame Gold Pin tubes , I believe the day before yesterday & I have the container w/ the tubes in it sitting on the rack shelf above the shelf my Lyr is on at this moment. (Should I swap them in now, or go out to do some things first. Nah, I better go out, otherwise I may not want to leave my house until...oh,I don't know ...a week from now. What's that saying "Good things come to those who wait" . They probably did'nt listen to music through tubes though!


----------



## HK_sends

Yes, they have great service.  Now if they would just _*get more Lorenz tubes...!!*_
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yes, they have great service.  Now if they would just _*get more Lorenz tubes...!!*_
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 


  I fear the Lorenz are gone forever ;(


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I fear the Lorenz are gone forever ;(


 
  NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
   
  Can I have yours?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## koonhua90

^ Or you can always go get some NOS Telefunken CCa on Ebay...two pairs just sold today, each pair for about $400....


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> ^ Or you can always go get some NOS Telefunken CCa on Ebay...two pairs just sold today, each pair for about $400....


 
  Had some but didn't care for their sound (the Siemens CCa sounded much better).  That's not to say they aren't good tubes...just not good for me.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Had some but didn't care for their sound (the Siemens CCa sounded much better).  That's not to say they aren't good tubes...just not good for me.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
   
  You ever tried the Mullard CV 2493?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> You ever tried the Mullard CV 2493?


 
  No, I never head had the pleasure.  I did have a set of CV2492s though.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

A death in the tube family................a Siemens tube, died while I was sleeping.  Sudden death at 1000 or so hours but that's the life of a tube, sometimes the good ones die young.  It was a party-goer, staying up all night, playing jazz and folk to the wee hours of the morning.  I have some new cables so I was breaking them in and running my Lyr overnight.  I woke up on Sunday and put on my headphones.  First thing I thought was uh-oh, the dreaded LCD-2 driver issue.  Then I looked over at the Lyr and one tube lost its glow.  Couldn't see anything physically wrong with the tube but an autopsy is to follow.  The Lorenz 3-mica have stepped in to fulfill the tube duties.  They are doing a great job but those Siemens CCa just come across as having that natural timbre, perfect soundstage/layering and lovely detailed highs.  The Lorenz appear to be a little more forward than the Siemens with a smaller soundstage but plenty of transparency and neutrality.  I'm in no rush to roll again, plenty of neglected tubes in the cabinet and Lorenz are no slouches.  Also will be looking for that Schiit statement amp and whatever tubes it may take.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


wnbc said:


> A death in the tube family................a Siemens tube, died while I was sleeping.


 
   
  Good-night, sweet prince.  My condolences for your loss.  If you need to speak with someone, we are here for you in your time of need.


----------



## knowhatimean

Speaking of that Schiit statement headphone amp, has there been any more word on when that might be coming "onboard"?. I'm guessing that much of Schiit production efforts is concentrating on fufilling the backlog orders of their Bitfrost dacs, so the "statement" HP amp has been temporarily put on the "back burner" until they're up to "real time" with those. Talking about the Siemens tubes I've recently "rolled" in a set of 1974 E88CC A-Frame . They definitely have a more "Lush" sound to them than the Mullard CV2492 1969-78s that Ive re-boxed! I've only had them 4 days ,so I really don't have much of a handle on where the tonal balance is going to end up once they start to stabilize a bit. At this point they are a bit "dark" sounding w/ a detail response & bass response thunder that jump out at you from the shadows in an exciting & very pleasant way that has you trying to count the instruments you just heard & more importantly how you felt about the "tone" of the individual instruments. I am definitely interested in finding out what the statement headphone amp will bring to the table


----------



## WNBC

Thank you, please bring pizza to the reception after the funeral 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> Good-night, sweet prince.  My condolences for your loss.  If you need to speak with someone, we are here for you in your time of need.


 

 Last I heard was 1st quarter 2012 for at least the mid-tier amp. but that may be out the window now.  Yeah, once you get those Siemens in the Lyr your other tubes will feel neglected.

  Quote: 





knowhatimean said:


> Speaking of that Schiit statement headphone amp, has there been any more word on when that might be coming "onboard"?. I'm guessing that much of Schiit production efforts is concentrating on fufilling the backlog orders of their Bitfrost dacs, so the "statement" HP amp has been temporarily put on the "back burner" until they're up to "real time" with those. Talking about the Siemens tubes I've recently "rolled" in a set of 1974 E88CC A-Frame . They definitely have a more "Lush" sound to them than the Mullard CV2492 1969-78s that Ive re-boxed! I've only had them 4 days ,so I really don't have much of a handle on where the tonal balance is going to end up once they start to stabilize a bit. At this point they are a bit "dark" sounding w/ a detail response & bass response thunder that jump out at you from the shadows in an exciting & very pleasant way that has you trying to count the instruments you just heard & more importantly how you felt about the "tone" of the individual instruments. I am definitely interested in finding out what the statement headphone amp will bring to the table


----------



## pseudohippy

Sorry for your loss sir. I hope my Lorenz and your Siemens are glowing happily together in tube heaven. Im sure they are looking down on us smiling as we listen to their brethren.


----------



## knowhatimean

As much as I am enjoying my Lyr I hope the "upgrade" amps will include at least 1 more switchable input so we can connect a tuner or such


----------



## M-13

I'll bring some diet coke/chips/salsa?... Now I need to find my Telefunkens black suits/ties so we can pay our respects...
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Thank you, please bring pizza to the reception after the funeral


----------



## WNBC

I think tonight I'll have to post some funny pics of the fallen tube................we shall never forget 
  
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> I'll bring some diet coke/chips/salsa?... Now I need to find my Telefunkens black suits/ties so we can pay our respects...


----------



## HK_sends

My condolences Compadre.  I know it will only be a matter of time for me as well...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## sridhar3

This is a sad day for tube mavens the world over.  I will have my black suit cleaned and pressed.
   
  In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti.


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> This is a sad day for tube mavens the world over.  I will have my black suit cleaned and pressed.
> 
> In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti.


 
  That was a little too convincing! Maybe if you had blessed the tubes before installing them one of them would'nt be in tube limbo now ! From now on whenever anyone brings some new tubes into the fold we will notify you for a blessing on them.


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





knowhatimean said:


> That was a little too convincing! Maybe if you had blessed the tubes before installing them one of them would'nt be in tube limbo now ! From now on whenever anyone brings some new tubes into the fold we will notify you for a blessing on them.


 


   
  Or you could get some blessed cables. That may have helped. 
   
  www.blessedcables.com


----------



## WNBC

We tried to save it but the dark side was too strong............


----------



## HK_sends

ROFL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## M-13

LOL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  That's the cutest Darth + Stormtrooper I've ever seen... is it Mr. Potato Head?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Here's the thing...I did....Siemens, Mullard (CV2492), Amperex Bugle Boys and Telefunkens....and I came back full circle to the Genalex Gold Lions. Their mids are fantastic and given burn-in with frequency sweeps, they do not have a deleterious effect on the bass or treble.


 
   
  Dear MacedonianHero,
   
  Hope you don't mind sharing your experience on the sonic differences between the Gold Lions and the other NOS tubes which you mentioned?
   
  I was thinking of getting a pair of either the Gold lions or Telefunkens to replace the current pair of cryo'ed 6N1P-EVs installed in my preamp.
   
  Is the soundstaging detail and accuracy of the GL comparable with the Telefunkens?
  Or are they really way off ala Mullard CV2492/93s?


----------



## WNBC

Oh yeah, the Darth Spud line.  We bought a bunch of these for our friends' kids and had a couple left over.   Very weird how we had some extra ones left over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## koonhua90

My Lyr amp is coming later. Gonna have to pick it up in school. The 1 inch sorbothane feet should be here today too. Time to get started on some tube rolling. As a side note, I feel that the Centrance DACmini does a great job at driving the LCD-3, although it's not really that authoritative, and the amp is not that powerful. The LCD-3 is quite a power hungry beast, I hope the Lyr will do a great job at driving it.
   
  I really wanted to get some Telefunkens or CCa tubes, but after I spent that much on a pair of matched NOS Mullard CV 2493, I don't feel like getting anymore tubes for these few weeks.
   
  Today is a good day, so much good stuff coming.


----------



## 333jeffery

A guy on ebay is selling a box full of Mullard ECC88's for about $27 a tube. If I didn't already have several, I would be all over this. I love the sound of the Mullards. I've seen some Brimars and Chelmer Valves, too, but I don't know how good those sound compared to Mullard. So, I passed them up.


----------



## koonhua90

The Lyr is indeed pretty powerful. By the way, can anyone tell me how long should I let the tubes to cold down before I swap in another pair? Seems like it will be pretty hot, and I will need a glove or something...


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> The Lyr is indeed pretty powerful. By the way, can anyone tell me how long should I let the tubes to cold down before I swap in another pair? Seems like it will be pretty hot, and I will need a glove or something...


 


  You can wait like 10 mins, or...
   
  Many ppl here (and me) use Electro-Harmonix EH Tube Glove
  http://amzn.com/B000UMCLIC


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> You can wait like 10 mins, or...
> 
> Many ppl here (and me) use Electro-Harmonix EH Tube Glove
> http://amzn.com/B000UMCLIC


 
   
  Thanks, I might get the socket saver for my Lyr, just so I can see the glow of the tubes clearly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I waited like 3 minutes and touched the tubes (at first it was the stock tubes), pretty warm but the base of the tubes were much hotter. Nothing much to write home about the stock 6BZ7 tubes, my DACmini headphone out has better resolution than them. Next up is the Siemens E188CC that I am listening to right now. These tubes needs a bit more volume to reach the same listening volume, but man, the German tubes have better resolution, detail, especially in the vocals, and then it's the soundstage, the separation and the sense of space of depth is quite a bit better than the stock tubes, just like what the reviews say...

 So far, 6BZ7 << DACmini amp << Siemens E188CC. The songs are fed into the Lyr by the DACmini so I can't rule out the influence of the DAC chip on the sound.

 Meanwhile, the US Amperex USN CEP 6922...sadly, is microphonics. But it's pretty cute, it makes the sound "ting" when I tap on them, like they have a voice and life of their own. Sound wise, very good separation, though soundstage and imaging wise is not as 3D sounding as the Siemens. What's special is the focus on vocals. It puts the vocals in front of the accompanying music...these Amperex and hopefully the Valvo that I will roll in next, have some magical touch on the vocals, making them that seductive sounding. Back to rolling.


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> You can wait like 10 mins, or...
> 
> Many ppl here (and me) use Electro-Harmonix EH Tube Glove
> http://amzn.com/B000UMCLIC


 



 I thought I was going to make through the day w/out ordering something on Amazon. Yeah right!!!. .I'll do better tomorrow. Thanks, by the way.


----------



## knowhatimean

Let me tell you how much I'm enjoying these Siemens 1974 E88CC tubes... I have revised my opinion on how I feel about the Naxos label . If you were to ask me about this label before I changed my entire digital front end source & started using the Lyr with these tubes & to a lesser degree the Mullard tubes I would have told you that the Naxos recording producers were completely clueless when it came to classical music. I am actually enjoying CDs I have'nt touched in years because I felt they were devoid of enjoyable sound. I was wrong. A good amount of them still sound just a bit "raw" but the amount of ambient detail in these recordings is really supprising (given my earlier listenning assessment of these recordings). The recordings that I already thought were superior now have me wanting to leave my disc player in repeat mode just to make sure that I did'nt imagine many of the "Holy C@#p!" moments I'm experiencing while listening to these recordings. I have quite a few CDs(I'm not talking about the Naxos now) that if I did'nt know which case I took them from I might guess they were SACDs.(& by the same token some SACDs really distinguish themselves from most of the other recordings.) I think I would have spend a good bit more to get as much enjoyment out of solid state equipment. I don't think I can enjoy digital music through SS. I was able to listen to analog through solid state.Digital w/out tubes somewhere in the playback chain does'nt come close to working for me.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Dear MacedonianHero,
> 
> Hope you don't mind sharing your experience on the sonic differences between the Gold Lions and the other NOS tubes which you mentioned?
> 
> ...


 


  Brilliant mids (likely the best), nicely defined bass without being overly boomy and treble that isn't bright, but yet extended. Overall very nice tubes. FWIW, I don't really believe in CYRO treatment...never heard a difference.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sanlee said:


> I want a new design in android tablet pc which is 5 point touch screen function and wifi.Please hlep me to choose.


 
  Hi SanLee!  Welcome to Head-Fi and sorry about your wallet!
   
  I think you posted in the wrong thread.  If you are asking for help in choosing an android tablet PC for a sound/music source, you might try this thread:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/f/15/portable-source-gear
   
  or better yet, here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/f/46/computer-audio
   
  This thread is really for rolling various radio tubes into an amplifier called (I kid you not...) the Schiit Lyr.
   
  Hope this helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


hk_sends said:


> Hi SanLee!  Welcome to Head-Fi and sorry about your wallet!
> 
> I think you posted in the wrong thread.  If you are asking for help in choosing an android tablet PC for a sound/music source, you might try this thread:
> 
> ...


 

 I think that's a spammer. Kudos to you for the patient response though.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> I think that's a spammer. Kudos to you for the patient response though.


 
  If folks weren't patient with me, I wouldn't be here today to annoy everyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


hk_sends said:


> If folks weren't patient with me, I wouldn't be here today to annoy everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You and me both, brother.  You and me both.


----------



## koonhua90

Even though this thread is really long, some extra pictures wouldn't harm, I figured.
   

  All my tubes! One more pair of British tubes coming soon.
   

   

  How can I post here, if I do not show the Lyr


----------



## WNBC

Are these where you got them from or Ebay?
http://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_MPs_1974_E88CC_6922_A_Frame_Gold_Pin_MINT_p/857.htm

 Quote:


knowhatimean said:


> Let me tell you how much I'm enjoying these Siemens 1974 E88CC tubes... I have revised my opinion on how I feel about the Naxos label . If you were to ask me about this label before I changed my entire digital front end source & started using the Lyr with these tubes & to a lesser degree the Mullard tubes I would have told you that the Naxos recording producers were completely clueless when it came to classical music. I am actually enjoying CDs I have'nt touched in years because I felt they were devoid of enjoyable sound. I was wrong. A good amount of them still sound just a bit "raw" but the amount of ambient detail in these recordings is really supprising (given my earlier listenning assessment of these recordings). The recordings that I already thought were superior now have me wanting to leave my disc player in repeat mode just to make sure that I did'nt imagine many of the "Holy C@#p!" moments I'm experiencing while listening to these recordings. I have quite a few CDs(I'm not talking about the Naxos now) that if I did'nt know which case I took them from I might guess they were SACDs.(& by the same token some SACDs really distinguish themselves from most of the other recordings.) I think I would have spend a good bit more to get as much enjoyment out of solid state equipment. I don't think I can enjoy digital music through SS. I was able to listen to analog through solid state.Digital w/out tubes somewhere in the playback chain does'nt come close to working for me.


----------



## WNBC

Some good looking tubes there, most with their screens intact.
  Whoa, you gotta tell me your impressions so far with the Lyr and LCD-3.  I'll weed through your past posts but if you haven't said anything yet let's hear the scope!
  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Even though this thread is really long, some extra pictures wouldn't harm, I figured.
> All my tubes! One more pair of British tubes coming soon.


----------



## mmayer167

^ I believe a few pages back he said he got them from tubemonger. 
   
  M


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Some good looking tubes there, most with their screens intact.
> Whoa, you gotta tell me your impressions so far with the Lyr and LCD-3.  I'll weed through your past posts but if you haven't said anything yet let's hear the scope!


 

 Oh man I am really busy until next Wednesday. I post something not long ago, nothing conclusive. A lot of tubes have slight microphonics, even the NOS Amperex 6922 (USA USN version). I am just listening to the Siemens E188CC for now, as overall I think they sound the best. When I feel like I need a more focused listening, where I will be listening to more female vocals, I might swap in the Amperex 6922. The Valvo E88CC (not NOS tubes) didn't particularly impressed me on anything, I might have to go back and swap it a few more rounds.
   
  Oh one more thing, I have a pair of  Amperex 7308 that is pretty well matched, even though I don't think they have the same color of paint (one might be white and one is orange), I find that pair to be really pleasing to listen to. It's just real smooth, but it does not force/push the vocal in front, in other words, the mid range is not as forward. The slightly drier and detailed Siemens E188CC demands more attention, as it conveys better sense of ambiance. As for pairing with the headphone, since I am biased towards tubes that do not have microphonics, I find that Siemens E188CC pairs well with the LCD-3 for now. It might be due to the nature of planar magnetic headphones, since I do not find that the LCD-3 portrays that wide of a soundstage, and the imaging is although great, I think this is one of its weakness. I believe Skylab mentioned something about imaging on his review thread, and although I do not believe him at first, I can get a sense of what he means now. Due to the good sense of space (which might contribute to better separation, in part), good imaging of E188CC makes it my favorite tubes for now. 
   
  LCD-3 for me is not like revelation, it doesn't really wow me when I heard it (usually means the response is pretty even, as no part of spectrum stood out), except the treble, which has an edge in it (very smooth nonetheless), giving guitar and certain acoustic instruments the 'Twang' they should have. In some ways, I can relate the timbre to the FX-700 earphone that I sold some time ago, except that the LCD-3 is much smoother. In certain subtle ways the LCD-3 improves upon the sound quality I get from my JH16. Coming from a good customs does have its downside, as I won't really get wow'ed that easily, which is sad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Maybe I should have a listen to other headphones from some high end amps to get a benchmark of how headphones should sound.
  Few things that I can easily point out that the LCD-3 outdoes the JH16 are midrange clarity, treble naturalness, low bass texture (due to the LCD-3 huge diaphragm and tight clamp, you can really feel the air movement). And yes, there are occasions where I actually hear more details (or more like soft background ambiance) from the LCD-3 compared to the JH 16. Mind you, my impression is nowhere as accurate as the impressions from other people here, as LCD-3 is officially and technically my first full size headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the impressions and coming from custom IEMs you will definitely have a different perspective from those of us who are primarily headphone guys.  LCDs are not know for their soundstage but I find it pleasant nonetheless when being driven by the Lyr.  Your LCDs need to possibly burn a little more and possibly an aftermarket cable will lead to improvements in imaging (YMMV, I noticed a difference when changing from the stock cable to Norse Norn).  With the LCDs I wasn't super impressed at the start but over time I came to appreciate them more and more.  Now I don't see myself ever completely leaving the Audeze line.  Lyr drives the LCD-2 well.  Let's see what you have to say of the Lyr + LCD-3 after you've had a chance to spend some quality time with them in the upcoming weeks.  

  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Oh man I am really busy until next Wednesday. I post something not long ago, nothing conclusive. A lot of tubes have slight microphonics, even the NOS Amperex 6922 (USA USN version). I am just listening to the Siemens E188CC for now, as overall I think they sound the best. When I feel like I need a more focused listening, where I will be listening to more female vocals, I might swap in the Amperex 6922. The Valvo E88CC (not NOS tubes) didn't particularly impressed me on anything, I might have to go back and swap it a few more rounds.
> 
> Oh one more thing, I have a pair of  Amperex 7308 that is pretty well matched, even though I don't think they have the same color of paint (one might be white and one is orange), I find that pair to be really pleasing to listen to. It's just real smooth, but it does not force/push the vocal in front, in other words, the mid range is not as forward. The slightly drier and detailed Siemens E188CC demands more attention, as it conveys better sense of ambiance. As for pairing with the headphone, since I am biased towards tubes that do not have microphonics, I find that Siemens E188CC pairs well with the LCD-3 for now. It might be due to the nature of planar magnetic headphones, since I do not find that the LCD-3 portrays that wide of a soundstage, and the imaging is although great, I think this is one of its weakness. I believe Skylab mentioned something about imaging on his review thread, and although I do not believe him at first, I can get a sense of what he means now. Due to the good sense of space (which might contribute to better separation, in part), good imaging of E188CC makes it my favorite tubes for now.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> I think that's a spammer. Kudos to you for the patient response though.


 


  Yeah, and it would be good to edit out the spammed link in the quoted message as well so the link doesn't get any search engine coverage.


----------



## FLYWIND

where you buy this one , can give a websit?


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Are these where you got them from or Ebay?
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_MPs_1974_E88CC_6922_A_Frame_Gold_Pin_MINT_p/857.htm
> 
> Quote:


 
  Yes, that's the place I got them (I think they said that the rest of them were my private stock. I have no idea why you can see this item...He,he,he) (What was it Golem would call the ring "my precious . .precious ...all mine...my precious". & I wouldn't be beyond biting someones fingers off if they tried to take some of "my precious"....Try & take some as Dirty Harry would ask "Feeling lucky, punk?). Wow, I don't know where this all coming from..I'm actually a pretty nice guy. I did'nt realize tube rolling was going to be so cutthroat. I guess you have to get them before a "dealer" buys up the stock. (witness what happened to the Lorenz tubes!!!  ... & then everybody laughs about it, but they still can't get what they want...now that is funny) Hopefully the price of these matched pairs is "high" enough to discourage a "dealer" from scoffing up the stock


----------



## WNBC

This one isn't such an easy decision like the Lorenz.  I'm pretty pleased with these $140 matched pair Lorenz 3-mica.  At $250 for the Siemens I have to think a little more about pulling the trigger so at this point they're all yours.  I know the Siemens will be great, it's a matter of waiting on the Schiit statement amp and seeing if its going to run with the same tube variants as the Lyr.  
  
  Quote: 





knowhatimean said:


> Yes, that's the place I got them (I think they said that the rest of them were my private stock. I have no idea why you can see this item...He,he,he) (What was it Golem would call the ring "my precious . .precious ...all mine...my precious". & I wouldn't be beyond biting someones fingers off if they tried to take some of "my precious"....Try & take some as Dirty Harry would ask "Feeling lucky, punk?). Wow, I don't know where this all coming from..I'm actually a pretty nice guy. I did'nt realize tube rolling was going to be so cutthroat. I guess you have to get them before a "dealer" buys up the stock. (witness what happened to the Lorenz tubes!!!  ... & then everybody laughs about it, but they still can't get what they want...now that is funny) Hopefully the price of these matched pairs is "high" enough to discourage a "dealer" from scoffing up the stock


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> This one isn't such an easy decision like the Lorenz.  I'm pretty pleased with these $140 matched pair Lorenz 3-mica.


 
   
  One question... Do you get a hiss/noise with the 3-micca?
   
  I do have hiss with 3-micca, but gray micca are dead silent.


----------



## WNBC

No hiss/noise with the 3-mica but I guess with these older tubes there's going to be a variety of experiences.  I should have gotten in on the Lorenz first with the gray shield then with the 3-mica.  3-mica version apparently are know to have low microphonics http://vintageaudiotubes.com/?p=1157
   
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> One question... Do you get a hiss/noise with the 3-micca?
> I do have hiss with 3-micca, but gray micca are dead silent.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> One question... Do you get a hiss/noise with the 3-micca?
> 
> I do have hiss with 3-micca, but gray micca are dead silent.


 


   
  Ditto


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> This one isn't such an easy decision like the Lorenz.  I'm pretty pleased with these $140 matched pair Lorenz 3-mica.  At $250 for the Siemens I have to think a little more about pulling the trigger so at this point they're all yours.  I know the Siemens will be great, it's a matter of waiting on the Schiit statement amp and seeing if its going to run with the same tube variants as the Lyr.


 
  Well, that's good to hear. I spent about a week "mulling" over if I wanted to spend that much on this "glass" myself. I had'nt even considered whether or not the new Shiit amps will run w/ the same variants,hopefully they will !


----------



## knowhatimean

Ok, does anyone have any thoughts on Amperex Phillips E88CC 1971 SQ Herleen Hol. prod in comparison to Siemens 1974 A -Frame tubes I have now ? (I'm very happy w/ the Siemens but I had to ask, so I'll know if they're "worth" keeping in mind for my next round.)


----------



## Eisenbart

Anyone have an electronic buzz when they touch their Lyr's volume knob? It's audible once I get passed 11 o clock, which is much higher than my normal listening levels but I noticed it last night when I was listening to a super quiet mix.
   
  I emailed schiit and they told me to take off the volume knob and tighten the nut behind it. I did so and still have the buzz when I touch the knob, have switched tubes too. I don't mind it, just don't want the amp or my tubes to get damaged.


----------



## koonhua90

My NOS Mullard CV2493 (dimpled disk getter) came. This pair cost me more than 1/3 of the price of the Lyr amp. They both have matching factory code, and even the measurements match. 
   

   
  By far the prettiest pair of tubes I have had yet, but will it sound the best? dang dang dang...that will come later today


----------



## HK_sends

Very nice!
   
  -HK sends


----------



## 333jeffery

Has anyone here tried the Matsuschiita tubes in the Lyr? They are quite economically priced, and I want to know if I should pick some up. Thanks.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> Has anyone here tried the Matsuschiita tubes in the Lyr? They are quite economically priced, and I want to know if I should pick some up. Thanks.


 
  I have them and have been trying them out with the Lyr and LCD-3.  I'll need a little more listening time and will post some impressions this weekend.  I will say they do sound pretty good initially and since you can get some on ebay for $8.99 a tube, they make a great deal.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## koonhua90

Hmm, I have been listening to the Mullard CV 2493 for a long time now. I don't know how to put this, they are less warm than the Amperex/Valvo, yet not as cold as the Siemens, the vocals on the CV2493 is not forward, but slightly more forward sounding than the Siemens E188CC. All in all, I have nothing to say about them, there is nothing wrong with them, they just show me the music like they should. If there is one thing that you want me to say, I'd say that I feel that with the Siemens, I feel that the treble needs to be toned down a bit for non fatiguing listening (I am talking hours of listening here), but with the Mullard CV2493, it gets pretty faultless.

 I can't really swap tubes fast enough until next week, when I get my socket saver.  In the meantime, I might try to get a pair of CCa tube.


----------



## WNBC

Well said, I had a pair of CV2493 and those were my first casualty of the buzz war.  Luckily tubemonger took mine back.  From what I recall they were non-fatiguing and somewhere on the warm scale between say 6N1P and Siemens.  If you end up with some Siemens CCa you'll find those to be non-fatiguing as well.
   
  As for swapping out tubes quickly, if you know somebody that can get you a box of nitrile or latex gloves you'll be able to swap them out quickly.  The gloves give you the grip needed at the finger tips to pull out the tubes.  With my bare fingers it was a pain. 
   
   
  Quote:


koonhua90 said:


> Hmm, I have been listening to the Mullard CV 2493 for a long time now. I don't know how to put this, they are less warm than the Amperex/Valvo, yet not as cold as the Siemens, the vocals on the CV2493 is not forward, but slightly more forward sounding than the Siemens E188CC. All in all, I have nothing to say about them, there is nothing wrong with them, they just show me the music like they should. If there is one thing that you want me to say, I'd say that I feel that with the Siemens, I feel that the treble needs to be toned down a bit for non fatiguing listening (I am talking hours of listening here), but with the Mullard CV2493, it gets pretty faultless.
> 
> I can't really swap tubes fast enough until next week, when I get my socket saver.  In the meantime, I might try to get a pair of CCa tube.


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Well said, I had a pair of CV2493 and those were my first casualty of the buzz war.  Luckily tubemonger took mine back.  From what I recall they were non-fatiguing and somewhere on the warm scale between say 6N1P and Siemens.  If you end up with some Siemens CCa you'll find those to be non-fatiguing as well.
> 
> As for swapping out tubes quickly, if you know somebody that can get you a box of nitrile or latex gloves you'll be able to swap them out quickly.  The gloves give you the grip needed at the finger tips to pull out the tubes.  With my bare fingers it was a pain.


 

 Thanks for the recommendation. I have ordered a pair of socket saver and those should come either today or tomorrow.


----------



## Argo Duck

Looking forward to your impressions HK!
   
     Ouch - only $8.99 - I got mine from tube monger...
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have them and have been trying them out with the Lyr and LCD-3.  I'll need a little more listening time and will post some impressions this weekend.  I will say they do sound pretty good initially and since you can get some on ebay for $8.99 a tube, they make a great deal.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


argo duck said:


> Looking forward to your impressions HK!
> 
> Ouch - only $8.99 - I got mine from tube monger...


 
  Don't feel too bad, you paid for matched tubes from a seller known for fast shipping.  Mine were shipped on the slow boat (three+ weeks) and were not advertised as being matched.  I just wanted some to try for as cheap as possible.  If I spring for a "backup" set (which I occasionally do), I would probably get them from TubeMonger or other sales site.  That way, if one was bad, it would be easier to get a replacement.  To me, peace of mind is worth some extra cost.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends

 P.S. - Did you get the National E88CC tubes or PCC88?  I got PCC88 tubes...they're not listed on TubeMonger but are available from here:
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Matsu****a-%7B47%7D-National-PCC88-%7B47%7D-7DJ8.html


----------



## Argo Duck

Oh good point - I got the National E88CCs (6922)! I did wonder if we were talking the same tubes...still learning all this stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  They sound darn good, though about to roll back to the stock 6BZ7s briefly for some testing.
   
  Thanks for the link btw
  
  Quote: 





> <snip>
> P.S. - Did you get the National E88CC tubes or PCC88?  I got PCC88 tubes...they're not listed on TubeMonger but are available from here:
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Matsu****a-%7B47%7D-National-PCC88-%7B47%7D-7DJ8.html


----------



## mmayer167

I just rolled from lorenz to tungsram both pcc88 or whatever the number is and then to the stock 6bz7. The GE 6bz7 tube really is pretty dang good! don't just rule it out. I do prefer both latter tubes but for me the 6bz7 comes in third. btw my bifrost showed up today! pic anyone?  
   

   
  M


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


argo duck said:


> Oh good point - I got the National E88CCs (6922)! I did wonder if we were talking the same tubes...still learning all this stuff
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  There are some differences but if you are happy with the sound, that's what matters!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> Has anyone here tried the Matsuschiita tubes in the Lyr? They are quite economically priced, and I want to know if I should pick some up. Thanks.


 


  Really nice bass presence and clean mids/treble. FYI...I do have a pair on sale in the F/S forum in case you're interested.


----------



## koonhua90

I just had my Valvo E88CC gone pop. Luckily I quickly unplugged my headphone and no damage was done. From now on, I will only buy NOS tubes or buy from someone who actually measures the tubes. When it was working, I really like its sound. I had jotted down some notes, of which I will post here once I get more conclusive. I prefer the Holland made Valvo more than the Amperex 6922. For low level listening the 6922 might be better as the vocal is so forward and prominent.
   
  It's a toss up between the Siemens E188CC and the Mullard CV2493, but I'd say I like the latter more. The Mullard has as good of a separation and sense of depth & height as the Siemens, and it has incredibly natural and accurate timbre. There is less sparkle in the treble, but the sibilance in the songs is still there, when the song has it. The Siemens' treble has sizzling quality to it and has the best real-ness, but it's ever so slightly fatiguing to listen at louder level. The midrange on the Siemens is a bit ever so dry, and these two reasons make me like the slightly wet and smooth sounding Mullard more. It has just the right intimate-ness for me, and even if I don't listen analytically, it's the Mullard that has been in the Lyr for the longest, which also proves that it might just be the best sounding tube (for me personally) out of the bunch I have.
   
  The Valvo E88CC and the Mullard CV 2493 share quite a bit similarities, but I did not test them back to back, and even if I want to test the Valvo now, I dare not as I don't want to blow the driver/diaphragm on the LCD-3.
   
  As for the stock 6BZ7 tubes, I really should give them another try.


----------



## Misterrogers

Sorry about your loss. Our odds of having a better experience with tubes certainly goes up if they're tested - but I've lost a couple that tested strong. You have me curious about the Mullard CV2493, as I really enjoy the E188CC's. From the thread/links, I take it you have the 70's or 80's version that's single stage with no splatter shield? Mine are the earlier gray shields - I'll need to pick up some of the newer ones. I just rolled in some Amperex 7308 '67 PQ's - wow. Very nice. 
  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> I just had my Valvo E88CC gone pop. Luckily I quickly unplugged my headphone and no damage was done. From now on, I will only buy NOS tubes or buy from someone who actually measures the tubes. When it was working, I really like its sound. I had jotted down some notes, of which I will post here once I get more conclusive. I prefer the Holland made Valvo more than the Amperex 6922. For low level listening the 6922 might be better as the vocal is so forward and prominent.
> 
> It's a toss up between the Siemens E188CC and the Mullard CV2493, but I'd say I like the latter more. The Mullard has as good of a separation and sense of depth & height as the Siemens, and it has incredibly natural and accurate timbre. There is less sparkle in the treble, but the sibilance in the songs is still there, when the song has it. The Siemens' treble has sizzling quality to it and has the best real-ness, but it's ever so slightly fatiguing to listen at louder level. The midrange on the Siemens is a bit ever so dry, and these two reasons make me like the slightly wet and smooth sounding Mullard more. It has just the right intimate-ness for me, and even if I don't listen analytically, it's the Mullard that has been in the Lyr for the longest, which also proves that it might just be the best sounding tube (for me personally) out of the bunch I have.
> 
> ...


----------



## koonhua90

Well I just find that pair to be pleasant sounding, where personal preference plays a huge role. Even though some people say that the 70s tubes are no good, it's true that in my case, the two pairs of tubes (my CV2493 was made in the April of 1975) made in the 70s have less microphonics. The CV 2493 is quite hard to be found, without spending a lot of $$$, in which case I find it to be not worth it to spend that much on a pair of tubes. The earlier grey shield tubes might sound better, but I feel that they are prone to have microphonics (that's from tapping on the tubes when no music is playing, which is not good for the tubes but I wanted to test the microphonics).
   
  I have a pair of Amperex 7308 too, but mine is not PQ, they sound really nice but they still have the Amperex house sound, and for some unknown reasons I just like the Mullard more.


----------



## WNBC

I did not know that it was a majority or minority opinion that 1970s were no good?  Was that brand specific?
   
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Well I just find that pair to be pleasant sounding, where personal preference plays a huge role. *Even though some people say that the 70s tubes are no good*, it's true that in my case, the two pairs of tubes (my CV2493 was made in the April of 1975) made in the 70s have less microphonics. The CV 2493 is quite hard to be found, without spending a lot of $$$, in which case I find it to be not worth it to spend that much on a pair of tubes. The earlier grey shield tubes might sound better, but I feel that they are prone to have microphonics (that's from tapping on the tubes when no music is playing, which is not good for the tubes but I wanted to test the microphonics).


----------



## bcart180

Here is a little eye candy:

   
  And how I pull my tubes:


  And yes, the rubber band came from my Nintendo Wii packaging (I also wear it as a headband when I'm cooking).


----------



## M-13

LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, great idea. Now where is my Wii box?....
  
  Quote: 





bcart180 said:


> And how I pull my tubes:
> 
> 
> And yes, the rubber band came from my Nintendo Wii packaging (I also wear it as a headband when I'm cooking).


----------



## koonhua90

I got another two more tubes coming. Somehow I just won a Valvo CCa tube for cheap on Ebay, and the pair has matching code too. Now even if the seller don't provide measurements, judging from the looks of it, it must be near NOS or only lightly used. 
   
  The other one is Telefunken E88CC, I will post a review of how I think about all my tubes when I got them all. So now, I have:
  1) Mullard CV2493
  2) Siemens E188CC
  3) Amperex USN 6922
  4) Amperex 7308
  5) Valvo E88CC
  6) GE 6BZ7
  7) Telefunken E88CC
  8) Valvo CCa
   
  Like I said, I will sell some of them when I have finished comparing them, either here or on Ebay.


----------



## xxhaxx

I have a quick question, Since there is a ground loop issue at the place I am staying at would a UPS help?


----------



## mmayer167

^ha


----------



## adydula

Wow....
   
  I have tried three sets of matched pairs in my Lyr with a set of Audeze LCD2 r2's.
   
  I hate to have to spend "hundreds of dollars" on tubes, new or old..if its not really necessary.
   
  I got a set of GE 6BZ7's with the Lyr and bought a set of EH6922's from an internet soucre.
   
  Bacsically I have been cycling in and out these two pairs for several months now...with good results...
   
  Over the past months I am liking the GE 6BZ7's better than the 6922's...wasnt this way at first....hard to say if its just the different sound is appreciated more etc...when you go thru a change or swap.
   
  Reading all you posts about these mega buck tubes but no wanting to pay for a set of tubes what the Lyr costs...well..
   
  So ordered a set of tubes and spent and hour listening to specific albums and songs with the GE's then popped them out and put in the new tubes...let them warm up for 30 min or so and started listening to the same material.
   
  WOW and WOW and more WOW....
   
  I just can not bring myself to believe that these tubes are so different than the GE, which I think are superlative for low dollar tubes.
   
  Well, all those adjectives used by so many people came to mind:
   
  Soundstage, Imaging, Seperation, Accuracy, Tonality, Musicality, Dynamic, and 3 Dimensional.....oh gee.....
   
  Kenny Rankin, Nora Jones, Sara K, Larry Carlton, Knofler and Emmy Lou Harris, Dutch Jazz Demos, Flim and the BB's, Diana Krall, Keiki Matsui (24 bit)... and on and on...
   
  I did not want to take the cans off the experience was that good.
   
  All the minute details, left, right and center stage were there in spades.....the sound of the reeds in the saxophpones, the perfect piano tones female voice...OMG Norah Jones like she was there!! (and I did get to see her in comcert front row center).
   
  I have traded notes with Jason for some time about tube choices, gain of tubes and even his favorite choice....
   
  I have discovered for a very low dollar amount the best overall presentation of the LYR paired with Audeze LCD2's to date that I have heard.
   
  oh....you want to know what the tubes are....
   
  Well they are a set of matched 6N1Ps  from Schiit Audio for a whopping price of $20.
   
  Maybe I got lucky with a perfect pairing and match to the Lyr I have...but my goodness its so perfect.
   
  Schiit uses a curve tracer to match tubes....
   
  All the best!
  Alex


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


adydula said:


> Wow....
> 
> I have tried three sets of matched pairs in my Lyr with a set of Audeze LCD2 r2's.
> 
> ...


 
  Sounds like a great experience!  While I do encourage rolling tubes to change the Lyr's sound signature, I've never felt I had to have the most expensive tubes out there, but I did want to see if there was some difference in sound that I might like with higher priced tubes.  The bottom line is...go with what you enjoy.  A lot of people like the 6N1Ps a lot (I had a set for a long while, myself).  Some of my favorite tubes cost less than $20, including some GE 6BZ7s and other brand 6DJ8s.  I am using some Japanese PCC88 tubes I got on ebay for $9 a tube.
   
  Unless you get bitten by the tube rolling bug (which can get very expensive...as in $2300+ for me) you don't have to go crazy on cosmically expensive tubes.  Although I must admit it was cheap tubes that got me hooked on rolling in the first place.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Enjoy the 6N1Ps...it's money well spent.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Sounds like a great experience!  While I do encourage rolling tubes to change the Lyr's sound signature, I've never felt I had to have the most expensive tubes out there, but I did want to see if there was some difference in sound that I might like with higher priced tubes.  The bottom line is...go with what you enjoy.  A lot of people like the 6N1Ps a lot (I had a set for a long while, myself).  Some of my favorite tubes cost less than $20, including some GE 6BZ7s and other brand 6DJ8s.  I am using some Japanese PCC88 tubes I got on ebay for $9 a tube.
> 
> Unless you get bitten by the tube rolling bug (which can get very expensive...as in $2300+ for me) you don't have to go crazy on cosmically expensive tubes.  Although I must admit it was cheap tubes that got me hooked on rolling in the first place.
> ...


 

 Hehe, mine is only about $500 (maybe 600....), much less than yours. But I think after getting the Valvo CCa and Telefunken E88CC, I am done at least for now. Hmm...maybe I will get a pair of Siemens CCa, or some Amperex PQ tubes....this is just hard to stop isn't it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  I sure hope the Schiit Audio's new balanced amp will use more than a pair of tubes, so I can put more tubes to use.


----------



## hitmanx

It's a sad day, I just find out my lovely PCC88 is leaking and can no longer be served
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Any people here know where to purchase within AUS? Thanks.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





hitmanx said:


> It's a sad day, I just find out my lovely PCC88 is leaking and can no longer be served
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My condolences for your loss.  What brand was it?
   
  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Hehe, mine is only about $500 (maybe 600....), much less than yours. But I think after getting the Valvo CCa and Telefunken E88CC, I am done at least for now. Hmm...maybe I will get a pair of Siemens CCa, or some Amperex PQ tubes....this is just hard to stop isn't it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'll give you another month or two...then we can compare expenditures... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

I think I have all of you beat on tube expenditure but I have gotten about half the money back by selling the tubes I no longer want..


----------



## MrScary

adydula said:


> Wow....
> 
> I have tried three sets of matched pairs in my Lyr with a set of Audeze LCD2 r2's.
> 
> ...




In all honesty man I don't think you have done enough tube rolling the 6N1p's sound good at first impression but once you up the ante and get some vintage tubes they lose their wow factors .. now in their defense I have some 60's 6N1p's that sound much better than the Schiit tubes but they are in a box
gathering dust they just do not compare to my other vintage tubes.. but if you are happy thats all that matters .. Godspeed


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> *I think I have all of you beat on tube expenditure* but I have gotten about half the money back by selling the tubes I no longer want..


 
  Of that, I have no doubt! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## adydula

Well you know I honestly went back and listened for 2 hours today with the same 6N1P's and was brutally honest....like most things at first they sound better, different...and then over time it starts to sound ho-humm and we start looking for the next new 'better'...with the 6922's, and 6BZ7s which I like both...every 2 weeks or so I swapped them out and over the 2 weeks or so they became ho-hum to me....then swap them out and voila they sound 'different' than the others or so I think...and the cycle repeats....now the hohum is not bad...they sound really good but it a new norm...
   
  With the 6N1P's I got it was a real WOW these are really 'BETTER' no doubt, no questions asked...after a second listening session to day I was thinking that they were going to start to be the new norm and well ....nope....in the 2 hours of listening, critcally I was BLOWN away at the overall presentation of these tubes in the Lyr. Still an OMG experience.
   
  Allision Krauss, Ben Harper, Regina Spektor. Travelling Wilburys, original mono recordings of Dylan, details, details, exacting resolution....phenomenal bass slam and impact....again hated to stop to be a normal person again!!
   
   
  Tomorrow I will put back in the GE 6BZ7s and see if what I am experiencing disappears....if it does, then I will be ordering another set of the best $20 tubes for this combination that money can buy.
   
  One of these days I might bump into one of you real tube experts and try your mega buck exotica NOS tubes, but something is telling me its not going to be even close in a price performance comparison to these tubes...that does not mean that all these neat expensive NOS tubes arent any good....just more costly for great sound..
   
  The tubes I have do not have any manufacturer labels. No Sovtek etc...they do have the OTK label which means:
   
  [size=medium]The label OTK on the surface of the tube bulbe means that
 it is a Russian tube was gone under a military test.
 OTK is an abbreviation in Russian language.
 It means: it was controlled by a *Military* organization.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]*Alex*[/size]


----------



## bcart180

Socket saver anyone?


----------



## dubselect

Hello. I'm searching for a pair of tubes for my Lyr, which drives Sennheiser HD800. Now I have GE 6BZ7. I like the way my system sounds.
  I just want tubes which will be more musical and will give me more detailes and better separation, but will have the same balance (GE is OK for me - not bright and not dark, just optimal).
  Please, suggest me something.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dubselect said:


> Hello. I'm searching for a pair of tubes for my Lyr, which drives Sennheiser HD800. Now I have GE 6BZ7. I like the way my system sounds.
> I just want tubes which will be more musical and will give me more details and better separation, but will have the same balance (GE is OK for me - not bright and not dark, just optimal).
> Please, suggest me something.


 
  There's just such a variety of options out there.  I guess the first question is how much are you willing to spend?  The prices can range from a few tens of dollars for a set to literally hundreds of dollars for a single tube.  If you have an idea of what you would be willing to spend, then it would be easier to offer suggestions.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dubselect

I think from 100$ up to 500$. Can you please suugest some tubes in different prices, so that I can choose. The only demand is that they sound in balance like my 6BZ7!
  I was thinking about Philips miniwatt SQ, but some people say that they are brighter than my GE.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And may be some alternatives with will be just a little bit darker than GE (at 6-8KHz).


----------



## Misterrogers

Read up on the Siemens & Halske CCa's. They're not cheap, but they're one of the holy grail tubes. Extremely balance, dimensional, dynamic with tons of detail. You'll find a lot of impressions on this thread. And as luck would have it, I have a pair for sale in the classifieds


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dubselect said:


> I think from 100$ up to 500$. Can you please suugest some tubes in different prices, so that I can choose. The only demand is that they sound in balance like my 6BZ7!
> I was thinking about Philips miniwatt SQ, but some people say that they are brighter than my GE.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You might also consider some Mullard ECC88 tubes or PCC88 tubes made by various manufacturers.  You could consider these:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm  or
   
  go here: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922/ and look for National PCC88 tubes (The freakin' profanity filter wont let me link directly to them because it thinks part of a Japanese name is a bad word. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  They seem to have a balanced sound, if not a little too light in the bass (for my taste).  However, Your Mileage May Vary...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dubselect

Thank you very much. I will consider all the alternatives.


----------



## MrScary

I think my friend you will need to go on a tube rolling journey like most of us here that have comes to some sort of consensus on what sounds good in general. Depending on your DAC your source cables etc... There is no one right tube for you. You will need to explore look back through this huge thread and
try a few out. In all honesty you are going to rack up a bill finding what you are searching for.. What works for one does not for the other... There are many variables in this decision you are pondering... Gooc luck I can tell you It was about a 2,500 dollar journey for me.


----------



## WNBC

That's quite a bit of money.  You could have gone to a higher end amp by the time you were done rolling.
   
  So, with all of that experience rolling tubes did you ever come across a pair of tubes costing say $50 that topped a $100-150 Lorenz Stuggart squats/3-mica or $200-300 Siemens, Valvo, Telefunken CCa?  I know you did a summary a long time ago but if you have something that comes to mind quickly that could help some new rollers.  Nobody has to spend more than $10 for a pair of good tubes but keep in mind that there is much more out there.  We all set limits on this hobby, some more, some less.
   
  I recently broke out the Gold Lions.  They are not cheap in themselves, $100 for a pair.  Very musical and smooth but not as detailed and punchy as the Lorenz.  The Gold Lions were almost too smooth.  Up and down the spectrum the notes were more textured and palpable with the Lorenz.  I could live with the Gold Lions but there is better out there.  Next week I'll break out the IEC Mullards.
   

  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I think my friend you will need to go on a tube rolling journey like most of us here that have comes to some sort of consensus on what sounds good in general. Depending on your DAC your source cables etc... There is no one right tube for you. You will need to explore look back through this huge thread and
> try a few out. In all honesty you are going to rack up a bill finding what you are searching for.. What works for one does not for the other... There are many variables in this decision you are pondering... Gooc luck I can tell you It was about a 2,500 dollar journey for me.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> That's quite a bit of money.  You could have gone to a higher end amp by the time you were done rolling.
> 
> So, with all of that experience rolling tubes did you ever come across a pair of tubes costing say $50 that topped a $100-150 Lorenz Stuggart squats/3-mica or $200-300 Siemens, Valvo, Telefunken CCa?  I know you did a summary a long time ago but if you have something that comes to mind quickly that could help some new rollers.  Nobody has to spend more than $10 for a pair of good tubes but keep in mind that there is much more out there.  We all set limits on this hobby, some more, some less.
> 
> I recently broke out the Gold Lions.  They are not cheap in themselves, $100 for a pair.  Very musical and smooth but not as detailed and punchy as the Lorenz.  The Gold Lions were almost too smooth.  Up and down the spectrum the notes were more textured and palpable with the Lorenz.  I could live with the Gold Lions but there is better out there.  Next week I'll break out the IEC Mullards.


 
  Consider Tungsram PCC88s: http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
  All-in-all, pretty good sounding.  Also consider:  http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm
   
  Hope this helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dubselect

*MrScary*
  Thanks for the commentary.
  But I don't think it's worth spending so much money for tubes. In my opinion, some people, who start tube rolling, just don't know, what sound do they like. So, they are searching for it.
  But I know - 6BZ7 is OK for me. I love the sound of my system now, but maybe it can show me something more? I just want to know is it worth buying a pair of quite expensive vintage tubes for Lyr. I heard a lot of positive comments that vintage tubes sound much better than Lyr stock tubes. Is it really true?
  On the other hand, if you have so much money, I think it's better to buy more expensive amp then, than byuing so much tubes for quite cheap Lyr.
  It's just my opinion. Don't take it to heart, please. In addition, I don't think it will be easy for me to sell unnecessary tube pairs afterwards in my country.
  Correct me, if I'm not right about tube rolling.


----------



## Misterrogers

The problem for many newbie tube rollers, is that they don't know what they don't know. I remember when I bought my Lyr - it had stock JJ's. With my current gear, I couldn't imagine it sounding any better - till I got curious and rolled in the 6BZ7's. Wow - nice improvement. If switching to those could make such a difference... Then came the Brimar Ediswan CV2492's. WOW - even better! You get the idea. Nobody heads down the 'rolling' road intending on spending that sort of money (I know I didn't). If the 6BZ7 is OK for you, then save you're money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But - chances are really good that Lyr can show you more, much more. The matter of 'which' tube would be more for you and your chain - well as Scary said, lots of variations and possibilities. We've offered up a few of the more reliable ones.
  
  Quote: 





dubselect said:


> *MrScary*
> Thanks for the commentary.
> But I don't think it's worth spending so much money for tubes. In my opinion, some people, who start tube rolling, just don't know, what sound do they like. So, they are searching for it.
> But I know - 6BZ7 is OK for me. I love the sound of my system now, but maybe it can show me something more? I just want to know is it worth buying a pair of quite expensive vintage tubes for Lyr. I heard a lot of positive comments that vintage tubes sound much better than Lyr stock tubes. Is it really true?
> ...


----------



## M-13

Quote:  





> I just want to know is it worth buying a pair of quite expensive vintage tubes for Lyr. I heard a lot of positive comments that vintage tubes sound much better than Lyr stock tubes. Is it really true?


 

 I'm not Mr. Scary but for me this has been absolutely true. Tube rolling has made a more positive impact to the sound then adding the Lyr Amp in the first place. When you roll in the right vintage tube it will sound like a whole new amp and your headphone will sound like a whole new headphone. The impact has been HUGE for me personally. If you told me to go back to the stock GE tubes I would cry...
   

  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> The problem for many newbie tube rollers, is that they don't know what they don't know.


 


  +1 So true. I was a skeptic until I started rolling. It's very easy to see and understand why Mr. Scary spent that much. He has helped out a lot of people through his experimentation and posting his findings. Same with you Misterrogers, you are the one who discovered the Lorenz Stuttgart and was kind of enough to let everyone know on this thread (which started the craze). I hope you make another similar discovery and this time I will not be too slow to react.


----------



## obazavil

Just play safe and stay below 6 pairs  (yeah sure).
   
  Lorenz rul3z, Valvo are great. Is very fun to change tubes 
   
  Thanks to ppl like MrScary and Misterrogers, I could save money and play "safe" with mullards and valvo first, and Lorenz in the end. I'm like 2 or 3 more pairs than I planned when I first bought Lyr 
   
  But yeah... is easy to keep spending cash looking for a better sound


----------



## mmayer167

out of curiosity i rolled a pair of schiit matched 6n1p. i would add to the above stuffs by saying, " what schiit has to offer for tubes for the lyr are plenty good.(period) unless you have deep pockets and want to catch that illusive perfect tube" More later when and if i decide to put 6bz7, 6n1p, tungsram  pcc88 (or whatever the number is again), lorenz, and 23p's up against eachother. 
   
  really enjoying vocals on the 6n1p! 
   
  M


----------



## dubselect

I didn't want to say that tube rolling is useless. It's great, that some people can compare lots of tubes and than advice newbies right tubes or some alternatives. I'm pleased that they are here on forum.
  I just wanted to say that tube rolling is not the only one thing that can improve the sound of music system. For example, I'm planning to buy a pair of tubes and also some new cables (for headphones too). And I'm sure that altogether all these components will give me great sound.
  It is the same story with cables - I have tried a lot of pairs and everyone brought somthing new in sound. I was lucky cause I borrowed them from my friends.
  Nevertheless, I would like to thank everyone, who offered me some alternatives.


----------



## Misterrogers

Agreed. I've actually been focusing on the 'closer to source' part of my chain lately. An Audiophilleo2 was a noticeable improvement over spdif to Bifrost (my MacBookPro is the limiting factor here). A clean power source for Audiophilleo2 and good IC's (Ultraviolets) improved things further still. In some ways, it seems that improving my source components has had the effect of making tube changes less dramatic, more subtle. Put another way, tubes that were just Ok before these changes seem to be giving better performance. Makes sense when you think about it - at least to me.
  
  Quote: 





dubselect said:


> I didn't want to say that tube rolling is useless. It's great, that some people can compare lots of tubes and than advice newbies right tubes or some alternatives. I'm pleased that they are here on forum.
> I just wanted to say that tube rolling is not the only one thing that can improve the sound of music system. For example, I'm planning to buy a pair of tubes and also some new cables (for headphones too). And I'm sure that altogether all these components will give me great sound.
> It is the same story with cables - I have tried a lot of pairs and everyone brought somthing new in sound. I was lucky cause I borrowed them from my friends.
> Nevertheless, I would like to thank everyone, who offered me some alternatives.


----------



## obazavil

I tought mac mini and macbook spdif were good implementations, seems not.
   
  Isn't supposed bifrost to take care of all jitter, so you don't need to have something of the price of Audiophilleo2?


----------



## Misterrogers

It's reasonably good, but it's limited to 24/96. More and more of my source material is > 96. The SPDIF port on a modern mac has been measured at > 100ps. Bifrost does a decent job of smoothing that out. Don't get me wrong - I was using spdif to Bifrost with a Silflex glass optical, and it sounded pretty darn good. Audiophilleo2 just sounds better, while delivering all of my high bit music to Bifrost in a bit perfect way. Also, Bifrost now consumes a relatively pure bit stream that's < 3ps jitter wise.
   
  Again. Not necessary, but when you hear the difference - it's hard to go back.
  
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> I tought mac mini and macbook spdif were good implementations, seems not.
> 
> Isn't supposed bifrost to take care of all jitter, so you don't need to have something of the price of Audiophilleo2?


----------



## barron112

I listen to alot of electronica and pop as well as some chillout. In your guys' opinions what is the tube for the Lyr that would work best for me?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


dubselect said:


> *I didn't want to say that tube rolling is useless*. It's great, that some people can compare lots of tubes and than advice newbies right tubes or some alternatives. I'm pleased that they are here on forum.
> I just wanted to say that tube rolling is not the only one thing that can improve the sound of music system. For example, I'm planning to buy a pair of tubes and also some new cables (for headphones too). And I'm sure that altogether all these components will give me great sound.
> It is the same story with cables - I have tried a lot of pairs and everyone brought somthing new in sound. I was lucky cause I borrowed them from my friends.
> Nevertheless, I would like to thank everyone, who offered me some alternatives.


 
  Hopefully, nobody took it that way (I know I didn't).  You just have to look at tube rolling as another aspect of the hobby that you can choose to take up (or not).  Before I started my tube rolling journey, I rolled headphones (no, really) because it seemed almost every new set of headphones (with rare exception) offered better, or at least different sound than the previous ones.  The issue wasn't me not knowing what I sound I like, but actually just finding it with my sound equipment (does that make sense?).  Tubes offered an easier (and cheaper upfront, but more expensive in the long run 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) solution.
   
  For me, the tube rolling started because I was just amazed at how much you could change an amp's signature just by rolling tubes.  If I had sprung for a higher-end amp instead, chances are I would still have tried to roll the tubes to fit my taste (or lack thereof...) in sound.  Rolling tubes just became fun for me; trying something new and comparing my impressions with others to see if we were in agreement and if not, why.  I went through 40 some-odd sets of tubes and made some great discoveries and found some I just didn't care for...but the journey was _fun!_  ...And that's all that really matters, isn't it?  Well, that and the sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Besides, I couldn't roll as many amps as I could tubes!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This wasn't a shot at anybody, just my reasoning for my own eccentric indulgence.  Of course IMHO & YMMV...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - I rolled headphone cables too...


----------



## jamato8

Having finally gotten into my storage I pulled a few 6N1P, military, triple mica black plate 1965 tubes. I had not used any, since I did not have access to them, in the Lyr. These, to my ear, sound nothing like the other 6N1P's. Very extended and transparent. Not a rich tube but more neutral. A nice wide soundstage and very good vocals. IMO. And they aren't burnt in, being NOS and never used. The amp isn't totally warmed up either. I hear no tube noise or hum. If the sound changes for the better or worse, I will note it. But so far I like this now very rare tube in the Lyr. 
   
  The one disadvantage these tubes might face here is that they aren't being run at high enough voltages and the bias is too low. Time will tell.


----------



## HK_sends

Well folks,
   
  Thanks to Macedonianhero, I have found another great-sounding tube for the Lyr; and get this, it's a 6922...but with real _bass_ as well.  While I found the 6922s to be very musical, I always thought the bass was lacking...thus my journey on the ECC88/PCC88 express.  But the Matsu"schiit"a/National 6922s offered on Tubemonger have somehow been made to include excellent bass extension (must be the Mullard tooling they used).  After only four hours of listening, these are already rapidly becoming my personal favorite (next to the Lorenz PCC88s). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And, they're only $80 a set...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - I already got my backup sets...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Well folks,
> 
> Thanks to Macedonianhero, I have found another great-sounding tube for the Lyr; and get this, it's a 6922...but with real _bass_ as well.  While I found the 6922s to be very musical, I always thought the bass was lacking...thus my journey on the ECC88/PCC88 express.  But the Matsu"schiit"a/National 6922s offered on Tubemonger have somehow been made to include excellent bass extension (must be the Mullard tooling they used).  After only four hours of listening, these are already rapidly becoming my personal favorite (next to the Lorenz PCC88s).
> 
> ...


 

 Glad you really like them. I completely agree that the bass on those babies was amongst the very best I've heard!


----------



## WNBC

Good to know.  I have a pair of these that never got their proper attention due to too many tubes and too few sockets.  Will load them up tonight.  The Lorenz having been sounding so good that it will be a tough fight getting them out of the Lyr.
   

  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Well folks,
> 
> Thanks to Macedonianhero, I have found another great-sounding tube for the Lyr; and get this, it's a 6922...but with real _bass_ as well.  While I found the 6922s to be very musical, I always thought the bass was lacking...thus my journey on the ECC88/PCC88 express.  But the Matsu"schiit"a/National 6922s offered on Tubemonger have somehow been made to include excellent bass extension (must be the Mullard tooling they used).  After only four hours of listening, these are already rapidly becoming my personal favorite (next to the Lorenz PCC88s).
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Glad you really like them. I completely agree that the bass on those babies was amongst the very best I've heard!


 
  Thanks, I really do...enough to pop for two more sets besides the ones I got from you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  I was pleasantly surprised and impressed, especially because I thought the Matsu PCC88s weren't as good sounding as I had initially hoped...
   
   Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Good to know.  I have a pair of these that never got their proper attention due to too many tubes and too few sockets.  Will load them up tonight.  The Lorenz having been sounding so good that it will be a tough fight getting them out of the Lyr.


 
  Well, it _HAS_ been a while since I had my Lorenz rolled in...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## mmayer167

this thread is bad, every time i see a new tube you guys try and have anything but bad remarks I must try.... must 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    the problem is they're always gleeming at me like "oh im only 40, its no big deal" 
   
  LOL regardless, i have a pair of these mullard toold 6922 on the way you speak of hk.. me hopes they can be my lorenz backup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  M


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Well folks,
> 
> Thanks to Macedonianhero, I have found another great-sounding tube for the Lyr; and get this, it's a 6922...but with real _bass_ as well.  While I found the 6922s to be very musical, I always thought the bass was lacking...thus my journey on the ECC88/PCC88 express.  But the Matsu"schiit"a/National 6922s offered on Tubemonger have somehow been made to include excellent bass extension (must be the Mullard tooling they used).  After only four hours of listening, these are already rapidly becoming my personal favorite (next to the Lorenz PCC88s).
> 
> ...


 

 ^ I agree after rolling the selected amount tubes I have xD I settled down with the National 6922


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> this thread is bad, every time i see a new tube you guys try and have anything but bad remarks I must try.... must
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'll probably wear these 6922s out first and save the Lorenz for "special occasions" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (or to finance my next headphone purchase...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Gonna have to roll through those again. I bought a cryo pair early one. They were nice, but didn't grab me. Now where did I store those...
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I'll probably wear these 6922s out first, then have the Lorenz saved for "special occasions".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


misterrogers said:


> Gonna have to roll through those again. I bought a cryo pair early one. They were nice, but didn't grab me. Now where did I store those...


 
  That was the thing, based on our earlier conversation I really didn't expect much out of these.
   
  Now I do have to caveat one thing...my Lyr is feeding LCD-3s, which may be taking (some) advantage of the tubes that the LCD-2s didn't.  Then again, I never tried these when I had LCD-2s so YMMV.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  PS - Didn't you sell them?


----------



## koonhua90

Wanna know what's sad? Both my Siemens E188CC and CV 2493 each has 1 tube that has died. Coincidentally, both are made in the 70s, and both do not have splatter shield. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So now I am living with the Amperex 7308, Telefunken E88CC, Valvo E88CC (I don't dare to try this pair, but from my impression last time I really like how it sounds), and the Amperex 6922 USN (a bit too warm and congested sounding for my liking, I guess this will be great with headphones with slightly recessed mids). The Amperex 7308 is not as buttery and warm as the Amperex 6922, and also has better soundstage, which I like more. The Telefunken E88CC sounds pretty much like the Siemens, well, not that I can compare them now, since the Siemens died. I found that the German tubes with less warmth and more sparkle fits my headphone more. The final pair of tubes is something that I got for $80....it's a pair of Valvo CCa, which should be here before next week. Sometimes, some good tubes just go by on Ebay without much people fighting for it.
   
  Eventually, imo any decent vintage tubes will sound good. Just read up some reviews and see how they sound. I don't think I am gonna spend that much more on tubes anymore. The only tubes that I will get is the Siemens E188CC and the Siemens CCa, if any comes by. If I am spending like 400 on tubes, I'd rather spend it on the Fischer Audio FA-002 with Karelian Birch cup. Or throw in another 300 and get the HE-500 headphone.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Wanna know what's sad? Both my Siemens E188CC and CV 2493 each has 1 tube that has died. Coincidentally, both are made in the 70s, and both do not have splatter shield.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ouch, that's gotta hurt!  Sorry for your tube troubles.  If you like sparkle and less warmth, consider Telefunkens...they are a drier, more detailed tube with (what I thought was) sparkle.
   
  -HK sends


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Ouch, that's gotta hurt!  Sorry for your tube troubles.  If you like sparkle and less warmth, consider Telefunkens...they are a drier, more detailed tube with (what I thought was) sparkle.
> 
> -HK sends


 

 Well the Telefunken and Siemens can be a bit too dry sounding at times. Good for shorter listening sessions, but too much treble sparkle causes ear fatigue for me, if I want to listen to it for a long time.
   
  I think between the more warm sounding Amperex 6922 and the Siemens/Telefunkens, the middle ground is what I like for long listening. I find that the Amperex 7308 is pretty good, almost no microphonics, and haven't died yet, unlike the Mullard and Siemens. I also like Valvo a lot....slightly warmer than Siemens/Telefunkens, but not overly lush. And it's very smooth...I hope that the Valvo CCa will not have the microphonics problem like on the Valvo E88CC.


----------



## WNBC

Yup, you gotta be able to stop the roll whenever, balance tube purchases against new headphones.
   
  HK, these National 6922 are actually pretty good.  Very good bass.  Not as detailed or airy as say the Lorenz tubes.  Not as much as gain as others but that's fine.  Definitely keepers, I will keep them in for a while longer, they're growing on me but unless they get dramatically better over time the Lorenz is still in the lead.
   
  jamato8, those 6N1Ps 3-mica are rare, can't find them anywhere.

  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Wanna know what's sad? Both my Siemens E188CC and CV 2493 each has 1 tube that has died. Coincidentally, both are made in the 70s, and both do not have splatter shield.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Yup, you gotta be able to stop the roll whenever, balance tube purchases against new headphones.
> 
> HK, these National 6922 are actually pretty good.  Very good bass.  Not as detailed or airy as say the Lorenz tubes.  Not as much as gain as others but that's fine.  Definitely keepers, I will keep them in for a while longer, they're growing on me but unless they get dramatically better over time the Lorenz is still in the lead.
> 
> jamato8, those 6N1Ps 3-mica are rare, can't find them anywhere.


 
  I agree with you that they don't beat the Lorenz, but since the Lorenz are pretty hard to find at the moment, these make a pretty good option for those looking for good sound.
  Again, it's IMHO and YMMV...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## koonhua90

Wooh...speaking of not tube rolling. One pair of 1964 NOS Amperex 7308 just came up on Ebay for $100, with one extra free tube, and I snatched it immediately. After the mishap with the 70s and 80s tubes, I firmly believe that NOS tubes from the 60s are better. Amperex 7308 is pretty rare now, and for that price I'd say it's a bargain. I will use it as a backup for my current tubes, and sell some of the ones.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Wooh...speaking of not tube rolling. One pair of 1964 NOS Amperex 7308 just came up on Ebay for $100, with one extra free tube, and I snatched it immediately. After the mishap with the 70s and 80s tubes, I firmly believe that NOS tubes from the 60s are better. Amperex 7308 is pretty rare now, and for that price I'd say it's a bargain. I will use it as a backup for my current tubes, and sell some of the ones.


 
  Nice catch!  Good thing you're not into rolling anymore...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Nice catch!  Good thing you're not into rolling anymore...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well I have kinda found what I like. It's really quite true that the E188CC/7308 sounds better than their E88CC/6922 variants, maybe not for every brand, but at least it is true for the Amperex tubes I have. Apart from the overly warm sounding Amperex 6922, I think I can live with any other tubes, be it Valvo E88CC, Mullard CV 2493, Siemens E188CC, Amperex 7308, Telefunken E88CC.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Well I have kinda found what I like. It's really quite true that the E188CC/7308 sounds better than their E88CC/6922 variants, maybe not for every brand, but at least it is true for the Amperex tubes I have. Apart from the overly warm sounding Amperex 6922, I think I can live with any other tubes, be it Valvo E88CC, Mullard CV 2493, Siemens E188CC, Amperex 7308, Telefunken E88CC.


 
  That's what's important...it's all about finding the sound you like!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## flu_fighter

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Well folks,
> 
> Thanks to Macedonianhero, I have found another great-sounding tube for the Lyr; and get this, it's a 6922...but with real _bass_ as well.  While I found the 6922s to be very musical, I always thought the bass was lacking...thus my journey on the ECC88/PCC88 express.  But the Matsu"schiit"a/National 6922s offered on Tubemonger have somehow been made to include excellent bass extension (must be the Mullard tooling they used).  After only four hours of listening, these are already rapidly becoming my personal favorite (next to the Lorenz PCC88s).
> 
> ...


 

 So which is better the National PCC88 or the Matsu****a 6922?
   
  I have a pair of CCas coming in, so I finally get to compare them with the Valvo pinched waist D-getter PCC88 which is my favourite so far.
  The pinched waist tubes really makes the Lyr sound like a sultry siren.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> So which is better the National PCC88 or the Matsu****a 6922?
> 
> I have a pair of CCas coming in, so I finally get to compare them with the Valvo pinched waist D-getter PCC88 which is my favourite so far.
> The pinched waist tubes really makes the Lyr sound like a sulty siren.


 
  I need a sultry siren in my life...the only sirens I hear are police sirens...or ambulance when they come take me away...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  To me, the Matsu/National 6922s are much better sounding than the Matsu/National PCC88s, which is really surprising because on the whole, I prefer the PCC88 sound.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## obazavil

Stay away from me devils!
   
  I won't buy another tube flavor of the week... I must.. not.. buy... National Matsu 6922...
   
  Look... somewhere... else... think.. of... rabbits...
   
  haha


----------



## mmayer167

ooo shiney objects


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Stay away from me devils!
> 
> I won't buy another tube flavor of the week... I must.. not.. buy... National Matsu 6922...
> 
> ...


 

 I would be all over this if I didn't already have a set


----------



## jamato8

While the 7DJ8 types are used in the 6.3 volt heater setup, you will not hear them at their best unless run at the designated filament voltage. The sound of the tube is changed at these lower than optimum settings.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


jamato8 said:


> While the 7DJ8 types are used in the 6.3 volt heater setup, you will not hear them at their best unless run at the designated filament voltage. The sound of the tube is changed at these lower than optimum settings.


 
  If the Lorenz PCC88/7DJ8 sounds this good in the Lyr with only a six volt heater, I can't imagine how good it would sound in an amp with a 7 volt heater.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## koonhua90

Today my new tubes came. I guess even though not many people are not in thread anymore, it wouldn't harm to take some nice photos. After all, who don't like photos? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
   

   
  So far so good, even in less than half a min of listening, the 60s Valvo CCa is a breed of its kind. Until the real NOS white label Amperex 7308 comes in I won't be able to compare them. But based on the Amperex 7308 (one side is white label, one side is orange, one is 1966, one is 1967) that I listened a few moments ago, the CCa sounds better for my ears, with less warmth and more sparkle. It's the lift that LCD-3 needs.
    
  I guess after spending about 2 months hunting for tubes I got lucky, and I got this pair of CCa for $80. It comes in original box with the serial # on it, one is 352478 and one is 352451. What a bargain. This song sounds so good with CCa....


----------



## WNBC

We're still here, just waiting for the next buzz in tubes
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Glad to see the Lyr is doing justice to the LCD-3
  After the Lorenz I haven't been buying anything though I would like to hear the Valvo CCA.  I'm going back and listening to my older tubes and having a shootout.  Got my IEC Mullards in right now.  Looking forward to hearing again my early rollers like Bugle Boys, RCA 6DJ8s, Valvo E88CC, etc.
   
  Shootout thus far..............
  Siemens CCa > Lorenz 3-mica > National 6922 > GE 6BZ7 > Gold Lions
  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Today my new tubes came. I guess even though not many people are not in thread anymore, it wouldn't harm to take some nice photos. After all, who don't like photos?


----------



## koonhua90

^ Well if I have too much money, of course I would get more headphones and higher end headphones...for example the AT W3000ANV...if I didn't get the LCD-3 I could have gotten that one. 
   
  The Lyr drives the LCD-3 fine, imo, but I have not heard any other high end amps. I can't compare it now since my Siemens E188CC died, but from memory, the Siemens have a bit more sparkle, or you can call the 'bite' than the Valvo. The Valvo is a bit warmer, just about the right amount for me. The Telefunken E88CC pushes even further than the Siemens. For me the Amperex 6922 and the Telefunken E88CC is on two ends of scale in terms of warmth.

 I am not that fond of hot swapping tubes that much anymore, as I suspect some of the tubes might have died when they are pulled out and got knocked around while they were really hot.


----------



## WNBC

Yeah, I don't hot swap so I couldn't tell you if they get knocked over that it will cause issues.  My tube went out while the Lyr was on so in the end these guys will fail at any point in time and space.  I just swap them out every couple of days during the shootout.  
  
   
 Shootout thus far..............
 Siemens CCa > Lorenz 3-mica > National 6922 > IEC Mullard ECC88 > GE 6BZ7 > Gold Lions
   
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> ^ Well if I have too much money, of course I would get more headphones and higher end headphones...for example the AT W3000ANV...if I didn't get the LCD-3 I could have gotten that one.
> 
> The Lyr drives the LCD-3 fine, imo, but I have not heard any other high end amps. I can't compare it now since my Siemens E188CC died, but from memory, the Siemens have a bit more sparkle, or you can call the 'bite' than the Valvo. The Valvo is a bit warmer, just about the right amount for me. The Telefunken E88CC pushes even further than the Siemens. For me the Amperex 6922 and the Telefunken E88CC is on two ends of scale in terms of warmth.
> 
> I am not that fond of hot swapping tubes that much anymore, as I suspect some of the tubes might have died when they are pulled out and got knocked around while they were really hot.


----------



## sulcata_geo

I've got new NOS Lorenz 1054B today in Japan.
  It nees break-in for a while.
   
  My initial impression : 
  The sound stage is not so wide compare to Lorenz 3-mica and Tungsrum.
  But it has very detailed and transparent sound.
   
   
  I'm very lucky


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Koonhua always like the pics. In fact the picture of your lcd3 with the line up of tubes from last week is the background of my phone
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  i have a pair of the valvo cca's as well and was curious if your pair is highly microphonic like mine.


----------



## koonhua90

My pair is actually really quiet. At least better than some of the tubes. I have not tapped on the tubes yet, will try later. I think my Siemens showed signs of dying, as I could hear some low level noise going on, but the Mullard just died suddenly. What an untimely death.


----------



## dubselect

I wrote to Schiit about using PCC88 with Lyr and Jason answered - no!
  But, as I can see, lots of users of Lyr do it?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> My pair is actually really quiet. At least better than some of the tubes. I have not tapped on the tubes yet, will try later. I think my Siemens showed signs of dying, as I could hear some low level noise going on, but the Mullard just died suddenly. What an untimely death.


 

  
  What kind of low level noise did u notice? These valvos definitely have a low frequency hum. Hoping to keep them around


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> What kind of low level noise did u notice? These valvos definitely have a low frequency hum. Hoping to keep them around


 

 I was testing it just now. No hum, no microphonics. Totally quiet. 
   
  I found out the reason why my tubes was burnt. It was because of the socket saver shorting out. Not fun when both my favorite pair of tubes worth more than $300 were destroyed due to a shorting socket saver. I put my trust on Tubemonger but it seems that it was misplaced. I just sent in a complain and let's see how they will reply.


----------



## koonhua90

The sad life of my Siemens E188CC. Shorted out by the socket saver from Tubemonger, and the glass became so brittle. Today I took it out to have a look at it, trying to see if there is any way to revive it, and then this happened. The top part literally crumbled into pieces.
   
  I don't have anything against Tubemonger, but selling defective socket savers that short out and destroy tubes? Not cool....
   
  I am really frustrated now...both pairs of NOS tubes destroyed just like that.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> I was testing it just now. No hum, no microphonics. Totally quiet.
> 
> I found out the reason why my tubes was burnt. It was because of the socket saver shorting out. Not fun when both my favorite pair of tubes worth more than $300 were destroyed due to a shorting socket saver. I put my trust on Tubemonger but it seems that it was misplaced. I just sent in a complain and let's see how they will reply.


 


   
  First bad lcd3 cushions now faulty socket savers, you are having a run of bad luck, audio wise. Please post their response, cause I think alot of us have them in our Lyrs


----------



## WNBC

Are we talking the traditional use of the term of short circuit or something else?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_circuit
   
  Sorry to hear about your tubes.  Many of us are using the socket savers.  I had a tube go out a couple weeks ago but to be fair and in context, I've also used the socket savers for hundreds of hours with no incident.  Others probably even longer than me so it may or may not be the culprit.  Keep us informed as to their technical explanation because at first glance there's not much to these socket savers.
   
  Bummer, that's the downside to these tubes, but normally you don't lose a bunch in the span of weeks such as yourself.

  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> I was testing it just now. No hum, no microphonics. Totally quiet.
> 
> I found out the reason why my tubes was burnt. It was because of the socket saver shorting out. Not fun when both my favorite pair of tubes worth more than $300 were destroyed due to a shorting socket saver. I put my trust on Tubemonger but it seems that it was misplaced. I just sent in a complain and let's see how they will reply.


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Are we talking the traditional use of the term of short circuit or something else?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_circuit
> 
> Sorry to hear about your tubes.  Many of us are using the socket savers.  I had a tube go out a couple weeks ago but to be fair and in context, I've also used the socket savers for hundreds of hours with no incident.  Others probably even longer than me so it may or may not be the culprit.  Keep us informed as to their technical explanation because at first glance there's not much to these socket savers.
> ...


 
   
  I am an EE guy, so ya, I think the socket saver has internal connections that is shorted out, making the tubes run extremely hot. I do not know exactly what is wrong inside, but the most likely cause would be short circuit. Nowadays we deal with short channel CMOS design rather than tubes, so I do not know the internal structure of tubes really well, but I suppose that any shorted pins among the 9 connections/pins of the tubes, will do more harm than good to both the tubes and the amp.
   
  I am pretty sure now the problem lies with the socket, after I have swapped in the socket twice, hearing the same static and pulsing noise on the same side. Take out the socket saver and plug the same pair of tubes in directly, work like a charm, no noise whatsoever.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks, appreciate the info, I'm a biologist so I leave the electronics stuff to you guys.  Would you say that it was just something weird about yours or we should be inspecting on our own socket pins?  I'm not hearing any static or pulsing so I guess I'm safe for now. 

 Quote:


koonhua90 said:


> I am an EE guy, so ya, I think the socket saver has internal connections that is shorted out, making the tubes run extremely hot. I do not know exactly what is wrong inside, but the most likely cause would be short circuit. Nowadays we deal with short channel CMOS design rather than tubes, so I do not know the internal structure of tubes really well, but I suppose that any shorted pins among the 9 connections/pins of the tubes, will do more harm than good to both the tubes and the amp.
> 
> I am pretty sure now the problem lies with the socket, after I have swapped in the socket twice, hearing the same static and pulsing noise on the same side. Take out the socket saver and plug the same pair of tubes in directly, work like a charm, no noise whatsoever.


----------



## koonhua90

There are defective units, maybe I am just unlucky. But based on the attitude of the guy from Tubemonger, I can safely say that I will never ever buy anything from them again. If yours is fine, then I guess you don't need to do anything about it. I will have to pry open the socket saver to see what went wrong, since Tubemonger is not going to replace their defective unit.
   
  Words of caution and advice to everyone, watch out when you buy something, lest you end up like me.


----------



## obazavil

Thanks god I skipped the socket savers and i'm just plugging my tubes directly into Lyr...


----------



## koonhua90

After I made my point clear, finally Tubemonger decided to let me ship the socket back, and refunded me. The Siemens tube might have been due to my own mishandling, but that doesn't explain the static noise that I heard. Swapping the socket from left to right and right to left, the noise follows. And I tested it with the stock tubes of Lyr, which has been left unused. The test was done with RCA cable removed from the amp, removing any source issue.
   
  I am not gonna badmouth them anymore, but personally this is quite the far-cry from the customer service I get from Schiit Audio. It's companies like Schiit Audio that I will still buy stuff from, 10yrs, 20yrs from now.


----------



## WNBC

That's good to hear.  I never had an issue with tubemonger, I had to return a pair of tubes once.  The impression I got was that a lot issues with tubes were coming from Lyr owners rather than other amps.  Whether or not it is due to the power of the Lyr I can't say.  However, the other side of the coin is that Lyr owners have purchased an uberly, awesome number of tubes from them as well.  I don't hear any static from my socketsaver so I will continue with them.  As soon as I hear something weird I'll pull the socket.
  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> After I made my point clear, finally Tubemonger decided to let me ship the socket back, and refunded me. The Siemens tube might have been due to my own mishandling, but that doesn't explain the static noise that I heard. Swapping the socket from left to right and right to left, the noise follows. And I tested it with the stock tubes of Lyr, which has been left unused. The test was done with RCA cable removed from the amp, removing any source issue.
> 
> I am not gonna badmouth them anymore, but personally this is quite the far-cry from the customer service I get from Schiit Audio. It's companies like Schiit Audio that I will still buy stuff from, 10yrs, 20yrs from now.


----------



## Misterrogers

Glad to hear! I'm a bit surprised and your experience. I've found my dealings with Tubemonger to be solid and fair. Let's hope it's a blip on the radar.
  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> After I made my point clear, finally Tubemonger decided to let me ship the socket back, and refunded me. The Siemens tube might have been due to my own mishandling, but that doesn't explain the static noise that I heard. Swapping the socket from left to right and right to left, the noise follows. And I tested it with the stock tubes of Lyr, which has been left unused. The test was done with RCA cable removed from the amp, removing any source issue.
> 
> I am not gonna badmouth them anymore, but personally this is quite the far-cry from the customer service I get from Schiit Audio. It's companies like Schiit Audio that I will still buy stuff from, 10yrs, 20yrs from now.


----------



## pseudohippy

Yeah, I posted a little while back about them. They were fair enough. They offered to take my Mullards back but refused to exchange them for another set because I had an Lyr. Kinda annoyed me but with the offer to refund was fair enough. I didnt like them blaming my Lyr though when others have the same tube without an issue.


----------



## Eisenbart

Were your Mullards from tubemonger noisy? I seem to remember many pages back people talking about it. I'm just curios because I have a pair of Mullards from tubemonger and they have developed a low hum. I can only hear it when there is no music playing so it doesn't really bother me. 
   
  I just find it strange because they were dead quiet until I had this weird volume knob issue with my Lyr. When I'd touch the knob it would start buzzing until I either let go or laid my other hand on top of the amp. Some weird grounding issue. Jason told me to tighten the nut behind the knob, which did fix the buzzing. But then I noticed that my tubes were humming, stock JJ's were doing it too. And now one of them, the JJ's, has gone bad. When I adjust the volume I can hear the turning of the pot in the tube that's gone bad, switch sockets, the noise switches channels. And in an unrelated issue a tube or tubes in my bass amp have gone bad. Guess thanksgiving didn't extend to my tubes 
   
  So that's my tube tale. I know those stock JJ's are cheap so I'm not surprised that one has developed a problem. And even with the hum my Mullards are making, I still think the Lyr is sounding better than ever. Still thinking about trying the Siemens 6922's from tubemonger though. Curse this tube rolling thing!


----------



## Argo Duck

I've forgotten the detail, even though I think you posted their reply. What was it about the Lyr they had an issue with?
  
  Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Yeah, I posted a little while back about them. They were fair enough. They offered to take my Mullards back but refused to exchange them for another set because I had an Lyr. Kinda annoyed me but with the offer to refund was fair enough. *I didnt like them blaming my Lyr though* when others have the same tube without an issue.


----------



## mmayer167

It's cold in here! My busty lyr is nippn out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





    Lorenz, so nice to see you excited under there...lol 
   
  ahhhh man im a nerd...
   
  M


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I've forgotten the detail, even though I think you posted their reply. What was it about the Lyr they had an issue with?


 


  I dont think they were specific other than to say that they had problems with only Lyr owners. But then also said and a couple other amps or something. Id have to check my email myself to remember. Im just guessing that most of the ones they sold were to Lyr owners for that run. They claimed that people had sent them back and they could not replicate the hum. I could clearly hear it on both my Lyr and my WA2 although it was more noticeable on the Lyr than the WA2.


----------



## WNBC

I also got a reply which indicated that my CV2493, which developed a bad hum and black/burnt tops, were the result of the Lyr rather than defective tubes.  I didn't put much stock in that because what could the Lyr be doing to these tubes that was different than other amps.  They were gracious enough to take them back even though they were not under any obligation.  We're talking about 40-50 year old tubes.  I'm more inclined to blame it on age rather than anything specific.  I have plenty of tubes and they seem to be fine in the Lyr.  
  
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I've forgotten the detail, even though I think you posted their reply. What was it about the Lyr they had an issue with?


----------



## Argo Duck

Cheers guys.
   
  My guess is that in part tubemonger got fooled by bad statistical reasoning. Assume there are more Lyrs being tube-rolled right now than any other amp, because (a) Lyrs are new on the block; (b) a lot of Lyrs got sold. Also assume Lyrs have nothing to do with tube failures, which occur at some "normal" rate.
   
  At normal rates this will mean more failed tubes returned by Lyr owners, just because there are more Lyr owners and more tubes being rolled through them.
   
  This could easily give tubemonger the idea Lyrs are the cause; especially as they almost certainly don't know how many are out there. If they knew this and ran the stats, they'd see the 'Lyr failure rate' is just the same more-or-less as any other amp. Heck, might even be less if the Lyr's a reliable, well-built amp that doesn't overstress its tubes. I suspect it is these things.


----------



## WNBC

I agree, the Lyr is a hybrid and the tubes give us the tube flavor rather than the complete tube picture as in the case of say the Decware Taboo tube amp.
  If anything we need Tubemonger to find us more Lorenz, I'll never complain about those tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Cheers guys.
> 
> My guess is that in part tubemonger got fooled by bad statistical reasoning. Assume there are more Lyrs being tube-rolled right now than any other amp, because (a) Lyrs are new on the block; (b) a lot of Lyrs got sold. Also assume Lyrs have nothing to do with tube failures, which occur at some "normal" rate.
> 
> ...


----------



## koonhua90

Today I got my 1964 Amperex 7308. Let's just say they are quite something...the details that they present just astounded me. I will need more time to compare them, but I think as of now I might rank the Amperex ahead of the Valvo CCa.


----------



## Vargtass

Hey guys. 
   
  Placed an order for a Lyr with GE 6BZ7 yesterday, to power my LCD-2's. Really looking forward to receiving it. 
  Also ordered a matched pair of Matsu****a E88CC 6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling after reading some of this thread. 
   
  Also really considering a pair of matched *[size=small]Genalex Gold Lion ECC88/6922 tubes[/size]*
   
  Now, I'm wondering if we're somehow able to sum up what sounds awesome in one post, or if it has been done already? 
   
  When I owned the Head-Direct EF-1 there were a sort of matrix chart that explained and showcased the ... I think 8 or 10 best tubes for it, and using that matrix was a revelation for the ones of us that didn't really fit into the "expert" role (like me). 
   
  I might read through this entire thread, but I guess I would be lying if I didn't at least hope for a quick and dirty recommendation thread with some different tubes in different price categories. 
   
  Huge thanks to everyone that's participating so far, though. Great work - and I'm so looking forward to my Lyr and some good old tuberolling


----------



## Misterrogers

I concur. I've really been enjoying early 60's Amperex (US) 7308's lately - actually the Holland ones are very nice too. Full round bass, very dynamic, lots of air. Adding silver IC's to my chain has me enjoying the 7308/E188CC family more.
  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Today I got my 1964 Amperex 7308. Let's just say they are quite something...the details that they present just astounded me. I will need more time to compare them, but I think as of now I might rank the Amperex ahead of the Valvo CCa.


----------



## Argo Duck

@Vargtass - Congratulations. I find the Matsu' 6922s very, very good with my LCD2. They showed me the real potential of the Lyr. I will be interested in your impressions of them compared to the 6BZ7s!
   
  @WNBC - speaking of Decware Taboo, after quite a wait (late August) my one is finally being built. What a tube-rolling journey that could be!
   
  @Misterrogers et al. - you are lucky devils to have so many tubes to roll 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Or should I say poor devils? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or poor yet rich devils!!


----------



## WNBC

I hear that the stock Taboo tubes will serve you fine so maybe you won't be rolling as much.  I didn't know there was a long wait for this amp.  Good to know.  I'm waiting on the Schiit statement amp but my next choice would be the Taboo.
  
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> @Vargtass - Congratulations. I find the Matsu' 6922s very, very good with my LCD2. They showed me the real potential of the Lyr. I will be interested in your impressions of them compared to the 6BZ7s!
> 
> @WNBC - speaking of Decware Taboo, after quite a wait (late August) my one is finally being built. What a tube-rolling journey that could be!
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> @Vargtass - Congratulations. I find the Matsu' 6922s very, very good with my LCD2. They showed me the real potential of the Lyr. I will be interested in your impressions of them compared to the 6BZ7s!
> 
> @WNBC - speaking of Decware Taboo, after quite a wait (late August) my one is finally being built. What a tube-rolling journey that could be!
> 
> ...


 
  I'm definitely in that last category now...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Argo Duck

Re Decware's amps my timing was bad - a lot of people ordered when I did. Judging by the list - clients get to generate a PDF on demand which shows where we are in the queue - those who ordered two months later are getting through the stages much faster.
   
  And yes I am hopeful the stock tubes will be fine for the Taboo - cheers WNBC!
   
  I realized recently I spent half as much again on tubes for the Lyr, and I've done very little rolling. I'm very happy with what I've got though: Siemens 6DJ8s from Mike, a pair of Amperex 6DJ8s from Adrian, and those Matsu' 6922s pointed out by Peter.
  It's all thanks to this thread


----------



## HK_sends

I just popped for a pair of these:
   
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm
   
  I've heard good things about them and already received excellent customer service when Steve Herbelin (the owner) contacted me by phone to clarify an issue with my order...not five minutes after placing it.
  More excellent service by a fine entrepreneur (and another guy named "Steve" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sridhar3

Anybody tried the EAT ECC88?
   
http://www.euroaudioteam.com/en/eat-ecc88-cool-valve-000008.html


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Anybody tried the EAT ECC88?
> 
> http://www.euroaudioteam.com/en/eat-ecc88-cool-valve-000008.html


 
  Will it be able to fit in the Lyr?  Even with socket savers?
   
  Looks interesting...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

i got the isofeet and the rx's in last week and have really liked their effects so far. My lyr stopped with the loud internal hum/vibration and the rx have really reduced the low hum on my lorenz 3mica. As far as blacker blacks i think that maybe placebo


----------



## HK_sends

Wow, looks nice!  I never used dampers before today.  I got some cheap orange ones off ebay and I actually did notice a difference.  However, the dampers rubbed some of the ink off my Matsu*a 6922 tubes so I wanted to try the Rx's.  I've heard good things about them.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - I'll be selling a few more sets of tubes soon and will throw some of the orange dampers in with them.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hk how are you liking the lyr/lcd3 combo? Do the Lorenz still sound as great with the lcd3?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Hk how are you liking the lyr/lcd3 combo? Do the Lorenz still sound as great with the lcd3?


 
  I like it a lot!  There are a lot of folks on the LCD-3 thread that think it's a tad warm...more like the LCD-2 v1, but where the treble sounded a bit veiled to me with the v1, the LCD-3 has no veil.  It doesn't emphasize the treble or bring it forward like the LCD-2 v2s, so it still sounds a little warmer than the LCD-2 v2 (which I don't think emphasized treble, but brought it forward...to me at least).
   
  I still think the Lorenz are still the best sounding tubes with this combo, but I am discovering other fine sounding tubes as well.  Matsus**ta 6922s sound rather good, I discovered some Siemens Trimica PCC88s that sound excellent, then finally...believe it or not...Tungsram PCC88 tubes.  They all bring something to the table.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

I love my rev1 so from your description im sure i would really dig the lcd3 as well. im trying to sell my car, so dont be surprised to see, trade my 92 bmw 735il for your lcd3 in the fs forum
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I saw some siemens trimica pcc88 on ebay i might have to give them a second look


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


dailydoseofdaly said:


> I love my rev1 so from your description im sure i would really dig the lcd3 as well._* im trying to sell my car, so dont be surprised to see, trade my 92 bmw 735il for your lcd3 in the fs forum*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What's the mileage? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> What's the mileage?
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  lol, dont ask..


----------



## Vargtass

How set are we on socketsavers for the Lyr, by the way? Can't help but notice the tubes sit very far down into the chassis, making me wonder about how hard it will be to remove them and replace them. 
   
  Then again, I read the horror-story about socketsavers frying all the tubes - don't want that either, obviously. 
   
  So ... yey or ney on socketsavers?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





vargtass said:


> How set are we on socketsavers for the Lyr, by the way? Can't help but notice the tubes sit very far down into the chassis, making me wonder about how hard it will be to remove them and replace them.
> 
> Then again, I read the horror-story about socketsavers frying all the tubes - don't want that either, obviously.
> 
> So ... yey or ney on socketsavers?


 


   
  I've had my socket savers for several months now without any issues. I hate to hear what happened to koonhua and if I hear anything strange going on I'll discontinue use. However for now they make tube rolling alot easier.
  I want to add that I have burned in tubes for 100+ hours straight with the socket saver in with out issue


----------



## Vargtass

Just ordered two socketsavers - seemingly a good investment at 25 usd a pop. 
   
  Should probably pick up another pair of tubes as well when ordering. Wonder what I want this time. Gold lions are kinda expensive, but I'm still considering them due to the fact I'm pretty sure I'm going to drop 1000ish usd on a new dac (Hegel - Norwegian, not very known outside of Europe but apparently extremely good) and I'm wondering if good tubes will be of even more importance than with my DacMagic. 
   
  AMPEREX 6922 PQ are priced "decently" at 70 usd on ebay. Pondering a pair of those - at the same time I could just chill out and wait for the amp to actually arrive  
   
  Thanks for inputs so far, by the way.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





vargtass said:


> How set are we on socketsavers for the Lyr, by the way? Can't help but notice the tubes sit very far down into the chassis, making me wonder about how hard it will be to remove them and replace them.
> 
> Then again, I read the horror-story about socketsavers frying all the tubes - don't want that either, obviously.
> 
> So ... yey or ney on socketsavers?


 
  I've had mine for a few months and have had no problems with them.  They have an annoying habit of coming out of the socket with the tube when I roll tubes, but my Lyr sockets have had more tubes through them than n the socket savers...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Still, I've had no issues.  I've rolled everything I have through them (including the Lorenz).
   
  Still it doesn't hurt to be cautious.  Try them out with your least expensive tubes for a while to see if any issues crop up.
   

  The Socket Savers make it much easier to swap tubes (especially as many times as I roll them.
   
  Sorry for the dust (I was rearranging furniture after a three month business "vacation").
  You need a tube glove or thick rubber band or small finger to get them out sans socket savers...

   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





vargtass said:


> Just ordered two socketsavers - seemingly a good investment at 25 usd a pop.
> 
> Should probably pick up another pair of tubes as well when ordering. Wonder what I want this time. Gold lions are kinda expensive, but I'm still considering them due to the fact I'm pretty sure I'm going to drop 1000ish usd on a new dac (Hegel - Norwegian, not very known outside of Europe but apparently extremely good) and I'm wondering if good tubes will be of even more importance than with my DacMagic.
> 
> ...


 
  That might help...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## warchild

Wow. Seriously nice rig!
  I can't make out the bottom piece in the stack. Is that your DAC?
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I've had mine for a few months and have had no problems with them.  They have an annoying habit of coming out of the socket with the tube when I roll tubes, but my Lyr sockets have had more tubes through them than n the socket savers...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





warchild said:


> Wow. Seriously nice rig!
> I can't make out the bottom piece in the stack. Is that your DAC?


 
  The silver unit is a Little Dot DP_I Digital Audio Player that I got to review.  I have since traded it for a black one.
  I have a review posted here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/559584/little-dot-dp-i-unboxing-and-initial-impressions-black-player-pics-added
   
  The problem is it demonstrates the same trend as other Chinese DAPs I've seen; good initial hardware configuration, but desperately in need of finished firmware to support the features it's supposed to have.
   
  Cheers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Wow, I gave all that info above to tell you about the wrong component.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sometimes it would help if I read a post more than once before I answer it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The unit at the bottom of the stack is the Little Dot CDP_I CD Transport.  Above that is the DAC_I DAC, topped off by the LD MK-IV SE amp.
  Unfortunately, all have since departed my ownership and are happily performing for another Head-Fi'er.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Nice pics, looks like Steve eddy changed his 1/4 connector. I have a plastic neutrik, I like yours better looks more like his ICs


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Nice pics, looks like Steve eddy changed his 1/4 connector. I have a plastic neutrik, I like yours better looks more like his ICs


 
  He said he managed to convince his manufacturer to make a few to try out as an option and I was his first guinea pig.  I like the connector, it matches the other interconnects I got from him.  Now, if he can get a 3.5mm mini connector in the same stuff, I'll ask him to re-terminate my Mini-to-RCA interconnect.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## perfect-pitch

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> i got the isofeet and the rx's in last week and have really liked their effects so far. My lyr stopped with the loud internal hum/vibration and the rx have really reduced the low hum on my lorenz 3mica. As far as blacker blacks i think that maybe placebo


 


   
  Heya,
   
  where did you get those nice feets? I am personally very satisfied with herbie's dampers combined with the socket savers.
   
   
   
  Cheers!
   
  perfect-pitch


----------



## perfect-pitch

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Anybody tried the EAT ECC88?
> 
> http://www.euroaudioteam.com/en/eat-ecc88-cool-valve-000008.html


 


   
  Very nice ones. But i can't find any price on their side?
   
  Cheers!
   
  perfect-pitch


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Very nice ones. But i can't find any price on their side?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> perfect-pitch


 
  OUCH!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Try here:
   
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-5315-eat-cool-valve-ecc-88-aka-6922.aspx
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - Cheaper here (cough...cough...): http://www.gcaudio.com/cgi-bin/store/showProduct.cgi?id=502
  PPS - Lastly, you can buy the dampers separately: http://www.gcaudio.com/cgi-bin/store/showProduct.cgi?id=500


----------



## sridhar3

Vinnie Rossi of Red Wine Audio had an EAT 6922 for the Silent Auction at the NYC Fall meet, but alas, he didn't have a matched pair.  I'm not sure if they make matched pairs.


----------



## perfect-pitch

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> OUCH!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  Thanks. I think that the dampers alone in combination with other nice NOS-tubes will do a good job, too. 
   
  Cheers!
   
  perfect-pitch


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Heya,
> 
> where did you get those nice feets? I am personally very satisfied with herbie's dampers combined with the socket savers.
> 
> ...


 


   
  I got them from herbie's site with the dampers


----------



## MrScary

Reason Jason is saying No is because the PC88 is rated for a 7 volt Heater. The tubes are just not getting enough juice all in all the Lyr is setting the bias low to its 6volt Heater..

They work great and the Lorenz are some of the best sounding tubes so they work fine and do no harm to the Lyr as it sets the bias... In tube theory the tubes will just last longer


----------



## MrScary

Those feet are freaky man like something out of a old time sci-fi movie hahaha


----------



## dubselect

mrscary said:


> Reason Jason is saying No is because the PC88 is rated for a 7 volt Heater. The tubes are just not getting enough juice all in all the Lyr is setting the bias low to its 6volt Heater..
> They work great and the Lorenz are some of the best sounding tubes so they work fine and do no harm to the Lyr as it sets the bias... In tube theory the tubes will just last longer




Thank you very much! Great to hear it. Most probably I will buy a pair of PCC.


----------



## dubselect

I need help! Now I have a real opportunity to buy:
   
  PCC88  Philips, made by Jugoslavia (Ei)  1970:s.
 PCC88  Siemens, made by Simens & Halske.
 PCC88  Colomor, East Germany, (only 4 pcs.)
   
  Which will fit more to my system? I need tubes, that sound not brighter than my GEs, maybe even a little bit darker - that will be good. Do you know how they sound?
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## MrScary

dubselect said:


> I need help! Now I have a real opportunity to buy:
> 
> PCC88  Philips, made by Jugoslavia (Ei)  1970:s.
> 
> ...




Only PC88's I have are the Lorenz so not sure I have thought about getting other PC88's but I already have enough tubes to last years so I think someone on here bought some other PC88's maybe they will speak up.
Im rarely around anymore as I already spent 8 months rolling tubes and spent a ton of money.. So I have retired I just am waiting for more Lorenz to show up hahaha


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dubselect said:


> I need help! Now I have a real opportunity to buy:
> 
> PCC88  Philips, made by Jugoslavia (Ei)  1970:s.
> PCC88  Siemens, made by Simens & Halske.
> ...


 
  I can't speak about the other two, but the Siemens PCC88s are good tubes!  The prevailing thought is to stay away from Eastern European tubes made in the 70s or later, but I have to admit that I really like the Tungsram PCC88s made in the 70s.  They're from Hungary (I believe).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## mmayer167

I rolled the http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm   this evening....
   
    lower bass extension is good and punch is notable, balanced, though not as immersive as lorenz or other pcc88 imo   
   
    mids are creamy and detailed with good vocal timbre, not as forward as lorenz but still very good. 
    
    highs are seemingly relaxed.  
   
    Overall i would call these 6922's a laid back tube, with good imaging and as said before "musical without being syrupy". Like a hd6xx sig. I like them and will keep them. 
   
  Cheers ya'l crazy lyr rollers!  
   
  M


----------



## dubselect

I knew that PCC88 Siemens are from West Germany (1960's).
  And have read about Philips PCC88 here: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Philips-PCC88-%7B47%7D-7DJ8.html And the review about them is really sweet


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> I rolled the http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm   this evening....
> 
> lower bass extension is good and punch is notable, balanced, though not as immersive as lorenz or other pcc88 imo
> 
> ...


 
  Of course they aren't the Lorenz...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  But I think they do make a nice sounding tube for the Lyr.
   
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## mmayer167

^ Agreed
   
  M


----------



## HK_sends

I managed to find another set of Lorenz PCC88s (made in the 50's) on ebay...  I got those, my Bifrost and Herbie's Audio Labs dampers all today.
  Let's just say I am a happy camper!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

  My System!

   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## songmic

Really? The tubes you found on eBay... were they Stuttgart or SEL? I'd give an arm and a leg for a pair of Stuttgart PCC88s...
  
  Congrats on the tube dampers! I still have yet to receive mine, but how do yours improve the sound?
  It seems that your dampers are UltraSonic Rx - I ordered the SS dampers because these are said to be specifically designed for small signal tubes like the ones in the Lyr.
   
  Your Bifrost + Lyr combo looks real nice, but do you think it's a good idea to stack one on top of another?
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I managed to find another set of Lorenz PCC88s (made in the 50's) on ebay...  I got those, my Bifrost and Herbie's Audio Labs dampers all today.
> Let's just say I am a happy camper!
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mmayer167

My combo is stacked as well. I personally asked Jason at Schiit if it was ok to stack the lyr and bifrost and he said "stack away"
   
  M
   
  Edit:   Oh by the way.... Nice setup hk!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Really? The tubes you found on eBay... were they Stuttgart or SEL? I'd give an arm and a leg for a pair of Stuttgart PCC88s...
> 
> Congrats on the tube dampers! I still have yet to receive mine, but how do yours improve the sound?
> It seems that your dampers are UltraSonic Rx - I ordered the SS dampers because these are said to be specifically designed for small signal tubes like the ones in the Lyr.
> ...


 
  They aren't the SELs, they're the Stuttgart tubes made in the 50's.  I will keep an eye out for any more that are listed and let you guys know.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
   
  PS - There are no issues with stacking them.


----------



## Eisenbart

So I gots a question. I got what you could call a Christmas bonus. So I've got a little spending money. Here's what I've been thinking of...
   
  S&H E88CC from tubemonger, or possibly the Amperex ones that cost a little more.
   
  Herbie dampers for my mullards
   
  Trying out an ALO cable for the LCD-2
   
  Grabbing a Bifrost
   
  Really not sure what I want to do. I've heard good things about the Siemens tubes, but I've been wanting to try an aftermarket cable for awhile... Or there's upgrading my DAC. I've got a HRT Music Streamer II, not sure how it compares to the Bifrost though.
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





eisenbart said:


> So I gots a question. I got what you could call a Christmas bonus. So I've got a little spending money. Here's what I've been thinking of...
> 
> S&H E88CC from tubemonger, or possibly the Amperex ones that cost a little more.
> 
> ...


 
  Well, you have decent tubes, so look at the other options, then later you can look into different tubes.
  The dampers will help the tubes you have and any ones you get in the future.  An ALO cable would be a nice option.  Then again, if you have a source to feed the Bifrost, that wouldn't hurt either.
   
_Ask not the elves for advice, for they will say both no and yes..._
   
  -Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





eisenbart said:


> So I gots a question. I got what you could call a Christmas bonus. So I've got a little spending money. Here's what I've been thinking of...
> 
> S&H E88CC from tubemonger, or possibly the Amperex ones that cost a little more.
> 
> ...


 


   
  Hmm I would get the dampers ( working well for me). I have a q audio for my LCD2 which I really like and you could put the extra $ saved from the alo cable to upgrade your DAC. Then you could match tubes to your setups new updated sound.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

P nice get on those Lorenz, aren't the older 50s version the trimicas?


----------



## Misterrogers

As best I can tell, they made both styles in late 50's and early 60's. 
  
  Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> P nice get on those Lorenz, aren't the older 50s version the trimicas?


----------



## mmayer167

Seriously, i'm really going to cry when my Lorenz bite the dust. I've spent the last couple of weeks rolling through different flavours. I just now plugged the Lorenz back in. I had forgotten how much better all around they were 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I hope more turn up somewhere! 
   
   
  M


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> P nice get on those Lorenz, aren't the older 50s version the trimicas?


 
  They don't look like trimicas.  The look like the grey-shields except the color is much darker...
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/260896300174?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_1184wt_1396.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

It's confusing. I've tried to find historical clarification on whether what we refer to as gray shields is properly 'trimica's', as it's often referred to on ebay. As best I can tell, it shouldn't be called trimica's, and is on ebay either because a) they don't understand the difference, or b) they do, but they understand that true trimica's are desirable and many don't know the difference.
   
  Again - as best as I can tell, trimica's refer to the style of having the additional mica plate positioned above the shield. If anyone tube wizards can add to our knowledge here, I'd be grateful.
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> They don't look like trimicas.  The look like the grey-shields except the color is much darker...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/260896300174?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_1184wt_1396.
> 
> ...


----------



## Eisenbart

Thanks for the input guys. I went ahead and ordered some Rx dampers from Herbie. Should be here Saturday! And my socket savers should be here today or tomorrow!
   
  I'll read up more on the Q cable. Reason I was looking at the ALO was because they have the 30 day return policy, but I see Q cable does too! And for 250-300 bucks cheaper, well, that's a win.
   
  And because I'm not totally sure... the Siemens tubes on tubemonger for 250 aren't Cca's right? I was looking around on tubeworld last night and saw all the different S&H tubes there are. I'd really love some Telefunkens, but 400 bucks for a pair....


----------



## Misterrogers

No, not CCa's. They are a better vintage of the E88CC tubes though. Nice tubes.
  
  Quote: 





eisenbart said:


> Thanks for the input guys. I went ahead and ordered some Rx dampers from Herbie. Should be here Saturday! And my socket savers should be here today or tomorrow!
> 
> I'll read up more on the Q cable. Reason I was looking at the ALO was because they have the 30 day return policy, but I see Q cable does too! And for 250-300 bucks cheaper, well, that's a win.
> 
> And because I'm not totally sure... the Siemens tubes on tubemonger for 250 aren't Cca's right? I was looking around on tubeworld last night and saw all the different S&H tubes there are. I'd really love some Telefunkens, but 400 bucks for a pair....


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> It's confusing. I've tried to find historical clarification on whether what we refer to as gray shields is properly 'trimica's', as it's often referred to on ebay. As best I can tell, it shouldn't be called trimica's, and is on ebay either because a) they don't understand the difference, or b) they do, but they understand that true trimica's are desirable and many don't know the difference.
> 
> Again - as best as I can tell, trimica's refer to the style of having the additional mica plate positioned above the shield. If anyone tube wizards can add to our knowledge here, I'd be grateful.


 

 To be a tri mica of anything or a quad mica, it has to have 3 or 4 mica support. Are there any etchings on the bottom of the tube? If not there is no way to know when they were made for sure but if there are, then you will know where manufactured and when. I notice no seams on the top of the tubes, which is odd for the period on most of these types.


----------



## songmic

Hey guys, I know it's a bit off-topic but do any of you use the Lyr with a dedicated audiophile-grade power cable? Sure the Lyr is advertised as a high power amp, but it's still a headphone amp and definitely not as power hungry as amplifiers or monoblocks used to drive speakers. Jason told me he personally uses the stock power cord, but then again, has any of you tried out using some of audio power cords with the Lyr to hear any noticeable improvement?


----------



## warchild

I use the Iego copper power cable and it is a big improvement. Smooths out the high end and takes some harshness out of the mid-range. Can be heard on any tubes I roll in there. I consider it a great up grade. I bought the cable for something else and just tried it one day and was impressed.


----------



## dubselect

I replaced stock Lyr power cord with Linn stock power cord (from CD player) (because I have one extra).
  It changed bass a little bit (more powerful and a little bit deeper). And maybe just a little bit wider sounstage. It is not very noticable. I think that if I made a pause between listening to the second cord I could hardly noticed any differences. All in all I don't think power cord can do some evident differences (maybe very expensive). Although now I use Linn power cord with Lyr.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





songmic said:


> Hey guys, I know it's a bit off-topic but do any of you use the Lyr with a dedicated audiophile-grade power cable? Sure the Lyr is advertised as a high power amp, but it's still a headphone amp and definitely not as power hungry as amplifiers or monoblocks used to drive speakers. Jason told me he personally uses the stock power cord, but then again, has any of you tried out using some of audio power cords with the Lyr to hear any noticeable improvement?


----------



## KimbaWLion

I hope to get the Lyr soon, it SHOULD be after the back order is cleared up, I am getting a BiFrost with it... I gone through a bit of this thread and really makes me wonder what to do.
   
  I am guessing I should chose the 6BZ7 when I order?
   
After I do that what you be an INEXPENSIVE tube to make it sound better or different in a way I can not help but notice, I REALIZE better is a subjective thing. I can't pay $90 a tube etc.
for some of the ones I have seen to be claimed as awesome! They maybe but $180 for a pair of tubes just can not happen for me!
   
I listen from Progressive Rock to Anime OSTs to Classical. I AM really ALL over the map. I have read about so many tubes
I get really confused, I think I find one then I see another and I am back at square one. I have NEVER owned a TUBE anything!
You can see my headphones in my list.
   
I am a TOTAL Newb at this so ease me into it. I have been SS my whole life...


----------



## mmayer167

I really like the 6n1p from schiit. Detail and bass are pretty darn good. if i had to list my tubes in order of preference itd be 
   
  lorenz obviously 100 darra
  Schiit 6n1p 20 darra
  some random russian 23p's off ebay 40 darra
  national 6922- these are really good but something about them just doesnt captivate me with the t50. 80 darra
  6bz7  free came with amp  
   
  thats my breakdown
   
  M


----------



## songmic

I think you're experiencing the same thing I've been through before I took a peak inside this tube rolling thread. Lyr was my first tube amp too - technically it's a hybrid amp, but first experience with tubes anyway - and I was very satisfied with its sound that I really didn't care about tube rolling at first (btw I used stock 6BZ7 tubes, which I still think are decent tubes especially if you're driving orthos like Audez'e or Hifiman).
   
  But a lot of people here have claimed that tube rolling drastically changes the sound of Lyr, and if tube rolling is done right one can enjoy great benefit/returns at a relatively minimal cost (since tubes aren't really that expensive anyway, at least when it comes to Lyr-compatible 9-pin tubes). Most tubes people recommend here are around can be bought at Tubemonger for around $50 per tube, so expect about $100 for a pair.
   
  Even if you think that's still expensive, think of it this way; the Lyr, whether you agree with me or not, is one of the best headphone amps out there, and it definitely outperforms most other amps in its price range. Sure there are headphone amps that may be better than the Lyr (e.g. Pinnacle, Balancing Act, Liquid Fire, etc.), but expect to pay a lot, and I mean LOT, for them.
   
  So you've already saved a lot of money and did yourself a great favor by purchasing the Lyr. But what if you can boost its performance to the levels of even superior amps at a minor fractional cost of the Lyr? Or customize the Lyr's sound with your own favorite colors? In my opinion, not tube rolling with the Lyr is like missing out all the fun everyone's enjoying.
   
  Of course, the question is how to get it done right. I can't give a definite answer to that because I haven't had much experience myself, and each of us has our own tastes when it comes to music. But I don't think you can go wrong by starting out with what many Head-fi'ers here have recommended and approved in general. In fact, some members of this thread have been extremely helpful in helping me decide and buy decent tubes. I listen to a wide genre of music like you do (including anime OST), but I guess that's what makes tube rolling even more fun. 
   
  Quote: 





kimbawlion said:


> I hope to get the Lyr soon, it SHOULD be after the back order is cleared up, I am getting a BiFrost with it... I gone through a bit of this thread and really makes me wonder what to do.
> 
> I am guessing I should chose the 6BZ7 when I order?
> 
> ...


----------



## Argo Duck

I think the Matsu' 6922/E88CC are very good, especially for the price.
   
  Are they your sound though? There are some impressions in the last few pages from MMayer, HK_Sends (IIRC) et al. MacedonianHero was first to point them out, a few months ago.
   
  IIRC they're $40 each at tube monger - take 10% off that as they're running a discount until Dec 31.


----------



## Eisenbart

The Mullard CV2492's on tubemonger are great tubes. Very rich and musical while still having way more clarity than the stock tubes. Unfortunately all the NOS ones are gone. But they still have used ones that test right about NOS scores. 75 bucks a pair if memory serves. 
   
  Only possible downside is that I think the Mullards have a tendency to be a little noisy with the Lyr. Mine weren't at first, but one has developed a very quiet hum, only noticeable when no music is playing, but it is there. (Hoping the Rx dampers will fix that)


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





eisenbart said:


> Only possible downside is that I think the Mullards have a tendency to be a little noisy with the Lyr. Mine weren't at first, but one has developed a very quiet hum, only noticeable when no music is playing, but it is there. (Hoping the Rx dampers will fix that)


 

 Let us know if the dampers fix it plz


----------



## Eisenbart

Will do! They are supposed to be here tomorrow. I really hope the Rx dampers fix it, if not... Oh well, the tubes still sound great. But I'd being lying if I said the hum doesn't bother me at all 

I may try some of the used Mullards to see if they have the same issue, plus I want backups


----------



## adydula

Kimba.....
   
  The 6BZ7's from Schitt are pretty good and have the highest gain...and have several sets with different ratings...all sound very nice and more than musical.
   
  The Schiit 6N1P's that Schitt is shipping now in matched pairs are absolutlely fantastic...I am not a high dollar tube roller but have really liked what these $20 a PAIR tubes have done to the sound...with the Lyr and my LCD 2's. Just got a second set ..have not been able to figure out who, when and where these are made....All they have is the 6N1P EV and an OTK trangle label....even Jason didnt know where they are made just that they come from a reliable supplier.....
   
  Must be a trade secret here...lol.
   
  Right now I am very content with the 6N1Ps from Schiit and wouldnt hesitate to use these for any type of music. Very 3 dimensional and airy.....
   
  Good luck, have fun!
   
  Alex


----------



## KimbaWLion

SOOO if i GET it, all the tubes from this page will fit? SOME are really up there at $189.99 a tube....
   
http://www.tubedepot.com/69226dj8.html   
   
  Pick the wrong one and NOT like it OWWIE.... Some are really cheap too... Makes me Wonder at least...
  Thanks for all the help  I am sure I will pick something interesting!


----------



## Eisenbart

Yes, all those tubes will work. I've been eyeing those Telefunkens for ages, but I can't justify spending 400 bucks on tubes, especially since that would pay for half a DAC. Someday though...*starts to daydream*


----------



## Lord Soth

The difference between mica and shields can be seen from the following examples.
   
*Mica* refers to the *horizontal* plates.
   
  E.g. of 2 or Double Mica below :- You can see 2 horizonal plates.
   

   
  vs. Triple Mica. You can see 3 horizontal plates below :-
   
   

   
*Shields* refers to the *vertical *plates.
   
  This is the vertical "Shield" between the 2 triode sections.
   
  E.g. of silver shield.
   
  If you look at the "E188CC" etching below, the vertical portion directly behind the "18" etching is the silver shield.
   

   
   
  vs. Gray Shield.
   
  If you look at the "E188CC" etching below, the vertical portion directly behind the "8C" portion of the etching is the Gray shield.
   

   
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> To be a tri mica of anything or a quad mica, it has to have 3 or 4 mica support. Are there any etchings on the bottom of the tube? If not there is no way to know when they were made for sure but if there are, then you will know where manufactured and when. I notice no seams on the top of the tubes, which is odd for the period on most of these types.


 
        Quote:


misterrogers said:


> It's confusing. I've tried to find historical clarification on whether what we refer to as gray shields is properly 'trimica's', as it's often referred to on ebay. As best I can tell, it shouldn't be called trimica's, and is on ebay either because a) they don't understand the difference, or b) they do, but they understand that true trimica's are desirable and many don't know the difference.
> 
> Again - as best as I can tell, trimica's refer to the style of having the additional mica plate positioned above the shield. If anyone tube wizards can add to our knowledge here, I'd be grateful.


----------



## Misterrogers

Thanks Lord Soth! That's what I thought. It's quite common for 2 mica tubes to be referred to as 3-mica. Must be ignorance or marketing.
  
  Quote: 





lord soth said:


> The difference between mica and shields can be seen from the following examples.
> 
> *Mica* refers to the *horizontal* plates.
> 
> ...


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

That 3mica has a really strange construction. Bars where the shield should be and the third mica nearly on top of the getter.  Soth do u know maker/brand of that tube, just curious. I guess I'm posing the ? to any high rollers who might have come across that construct as well.


----------



## HK_sends

That's why these are so popular (and hard to get):
   




(Picture courtesy of TubeMonger Library)
   
  Our buddies, the Lorenz 3-mica tubes...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - It's interesting that the third mica (on top) is just a plain disk, but it's definitely mica...


----------



## mmayer167

looks up in lust as wiping drool from lower lip....


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote:


dailydoseofdaly said:


> That 3mica has a really strange construction. Bars where the shield should be and the third mica nearly on top of the getter.  Soth do u know maker/brand of that tube, just curious. I guess I'm posing the ? to any high rollers who might have come across that construct as well.


 

 Hi dailydoseofdaly,
   
  That 3mica is a GE Black Plate 5751 vacuum tube.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Quote:
> 
> Hi dailydoseofdaly,
> 
> That 3mica is a GE Black Plate 5751 vacuum tube.


 


   
  Thanks appreciate it, I am not very familiar with 12ax7 and it's substitutes.


----------



## Eisenbart

Got my tube dampers from Herbie's Audio Lab on Saturday. They did not make the hum in my right channel tube go away, but I'm fairly certain that it's some weird power related issue.
   
  They did however provide an all around improvement to my systems sound. Biggest things I noticed was more air in the highs and deeper bass. Not more bass, just deeper and more refined.
   
  Well worth the 56 bucks imo.


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





eisenbart said:


> Got my tube dampers from Herbie's Audio Lab on Saturday. They did not make the hum in my right channel tube go away, but I'm fairly certain that it's some weird power related issue.
> 
> They did however provide an all around improvement to my systems sound. Biggest things I noticed was more air in the highs and deeper bass. Not more bass, just deeper and more refined.
> 
> Well worth the 56 bucks imo.


 


   
  Which dampers did you order?
   
  Is it possible to see a picture of the Lyr all dressed up in its new dampers?
   
  Thanks


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Of course they aren't the Lorenz...:wink_face:
> But I think they do make a nice sounding tube for the Lyr.
> 
> 
> ...




My worst fear no Lorenz have shown up yet... I keep hoping one of the newer tube rollers comes up with like a box of Lorenz that were rotting in a strange box in a strange place on earth..
I have no energy left for searching...


----------



## MrScary

Well I'm not around much anymore guys but do look at the thread from time to time. I probably will not check the site again until next year .as I am in another type of tube mode... Alas Guitar Amp tubes is my new sickness and takes me down the same path as the Lyr but actually not as expensive.. hahah from one tube to another these are the days of Scary's life.

So anyway wanted to wish everyone a Happy Holidays! I miss the epiphany's with the tube rolling.. I looked at my Ebay bill for this year and freaked out on how much I spent on tubes anyway It has been great fun...
that's not counting tubemonger and any tubes from Schiit or from other sources... haha

Please someone find some PC88 Lorenz's I only have two sets hahah <---- the sickness continues

Godspeed


----------



## mmayer167

^ I only have one set 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





    
   
  Happy Trails MrScary! 
   
  M


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> ^ I only have one set
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Only one 3-micca set, and one 2-micca gray sets of Lorenz 
   
  Happy holydays mrScary!


----------



## WNBC

A picture on page 162.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/2415
  If I remember correctly there's one size for the 6922 dampners on Herbie's website.
   
  Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Which dampers did you order?
> 
> Is it possible to see a picture of the Lyr all dressed up in its new dampers?
> 
> Thanks


 

 Thank you for being a tube wingman.  
   

  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well I'm not around much anymore guys but do look at the thread from time to time. I probably will not check the site again until next year .as I am in another type of tube mode... Alas Guitar Amp tubes is my new sickness and takes me down the same path as the Lyr but actually not as expensive.. hahah from one tube to another these are the days of Scary's life.
> So anyway wanted to wish everyone a Happy Holidays! I miss the epiphany's with the tube rolling.. I looked at my Ebay bill for this year and freaked out on how much I spent on tubes anyway It has been great fun...
> that's not counting tubemonger and any tubes from Schiit or from other sources... haha
> Please someone find some PC88 Lorenz's I only have two sets hahah <---- the sickness continues
> Godspeed


----------



## Eisenbart

I got the Rx dampers, size 9. http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm
   
  Sorry for the bad picture quality.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





eisenbart said:


> I got the Rx dampers, size 9. http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm
> 
> Sorry for the bad picture quality.


 

 so, any improvements?
   
  *EDIT* I just read your comments. I want one of those!


----------



## J&J

The 6N1P from Schiit should be any newbe 1st tube swap/roll for the Lyr. Cheap and freaky good for the price IMO


----------



## mmayer167

^ X2
   
  M


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well I'm not around much anymore guys but do look at the thread from time to time. I probably will not check the site again until next year .as I am in another type of tube mode... Alas Guitar Amp tubes is my new sickness and takes me down the same path as the Lyr but actually not as expensive.. hahah from one tube to another these are the days of Scary's life.
> So anyway wanted to wish everyone a Happy Holidays! I miss the epiphany's with the tube rolling.. I looked at my Ebay bill for this year and freaked out on how much I spent on tubes anyway It has been great fun...
> that's not counting tubemonger and any tubes from Schiit or from other sources... haha
> *Please someone find some PC88 Lorenz's I only have two sets hahah <---- the sickness continues*
> Godspeed


 
  Take care and have Happy Holidays!  I'll let you know if I find any more Lorenz (after I stash away five or six sets for myself...Bwa-Ha-Ha!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ocswing

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Take care and have Happy Holidays!  I'll let you know if I find any more Lorenz (after I stash away five or six sets for myself...Bwa-Ha-Ha!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Some of us just want one set!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ocswing said:


> Some of us just want one set!


 
  I was just tweaking MrScary...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  If I see any available for sale, I will definitely post here for everyone.  Also, Misterrogers is on the lookout for a supply of Lorenz tubes as well.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I was just tweaking MrScary...:wink_face:   If I see any available for sale, I will definitely post here for everyone.  Also, Misterrogers is on the lookout for a supply of Lorenz tubes as well.
> 
> Cheers!
> -HK sends




Im still watching hehehehe

Lorez or Lorenz where art thoug!


----------



## HK_sends

Hey everybody,
   
  I got my Triode Flippers in from TubeMonger yesterday and I wanted to post a few observations.  First, the good news: nothing exploded, shorted, or otherwise broke.  The tubes sounded just fine with no perceived change to the sound.  Neither the Socket Savers (SS's) nor the Triode Flippers (TF's) has affected the sound of the tubes (to me, at least).
   
  Now, the (not really) bad news...I really have no way of telling if these are doing what they are supposed to do.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I don't doubt Tubemonger's word, I just have no way to test them. 
   
  There is a difference between the SS's and TF's...the contacts (but not the pins) in the SS's are gold plated and the TF's are not.  It was a bit of a struggle getting the tubes inserted into the sockets the first time (now, don't go there...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but other than that they seemed to work just fine.
   
  Just thought you'd like to know...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Are they the same height?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Are they the same height?


 
  They are identical except for the labels and socket contacts...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok, so I went full circle and got the DT990/600 again. However, when I owned the Lyr, I didn't have any Beyers (just HE4 and D7000 at the time).

Does anyone know which Schiit supplied tubes don't add to bass or treble? I'd like to keep the bass where it's at, no more, no less if possible, but definitely a slight reduction in treble. I distinctly remember the 6N1P probably being my best bet.

I don't have the Lyr yet, but it's what I'm leaning towards grabs my attention.

What's the diferrence between the 6N1P and 6BZ7? At the time of owning the Lyr, I had the stock tubes and ordered the 6N1P, which definitely sounded better.


----------



## adydula

The 6N1P has a gain of 35 +/- 7. This is from 28 to 42. The avg being 35.
  The 6BZ7 has an amplification factor of 36. Some Russian tube specs state 35 +/- 8 for gain.
  Both have serial heaters.
   
  I have several sets of both.
   
  To me with a pair of Audeze LCD2's the 6N1P's I have from Schiit. matched on a curver tracer vs a tube tester they sound the best overall vs EH6922's and GE 6BZ7's.
   
  The one major difference is the 3 dimensional sound with them...the tonal accuracy seems very similar. but time after time of swaps, my ear hears a very descernable difference with the openess, imaging, and with live concert type type of recordings this is really very noticeable. The 6BZ7 is very nice musically but the 6N1P makes you hear like your there in the room....uncanny for a set of very inexpensive tubes....
   
  You can get a pair of each for $20 for the 6N1P's and $40 for a pair of 6BZ7's...a very inexpensive deal here, and try both with material you like and see what you like or can discern as real differences...
   
   
  Basic data: For 6N1P

 Uf = 6.3 V, If = 600 mA (heater current)
 Plate Voltage = 250
 uM = 35
 Ia = 7.5 mA
 S = 4.35 mA/V
 Pa = 2.2 W
   
  From earlier posts...
*6BZ7*
  Heater Voltage ................................ 6.3 V
 Heater Current ................................ 0.4 A
  Plate Voltage ................................. 250 V
 Plate Dissipation ............................. 2 W
   
*E88CC/6922*
  Heater Voltage ................................ 6.3 V
 Heater Current ................................ 0.3 A
  Plate Voltage ................................. 220 V
 Plate Dissipation ............................. 1.5 W


----------



## MrScary

adydula said:


> The 6N1P has a gain of 35 +/- 7. This is from 28 to 42. The avg being 35.
> The 6BZ7 has an amplification factor of 36. Some Russian tube specs state 35 +/- 8 for gain.
> Both have serial heaters.
> 
> ...




I think its great that you broke down the electrical qualities of the tubes i.e. the 6N1p's and the GE 6BZ7's. But what I see is one problem the 6N1p's are not really known to have a wide openness or good imaging I mean they are cheap old Russian tube's if you are talking about the ones that Schiit has.. Now if you go back and get some of the vintage 60's and even early 70's 6N1p's there is a huge difference in sound quality. But that is far as it goes..
When I was tube rolling on here and doing direct comparison's the Schiit stock 6N1p's are at the bottom of the barrel in regards to any imaging or having a open sound quality... The one thing I will add that everyone forgets is that we all have different audio chain's and that's why it is so hard to come to a consensus on any one particular tube... adding a silver interconnect between your Dac and amp can make a change so then you may need to compensate with a tube change... So the bottom line is: If one wants to find a particular sound they will probably have to roll a few sets of tubes.. You can go on guidelines but that's as far as it goes.. When I ranked tubes on this thread they were based upon several different criteria. Imaging, bass, treble response wide vs shallow sounding.. As much as one wants to believe that a 20.00 tube will fit your bill I have found that with a few exceptions in the 6BZ7 line you will need to spend at least 100.00 to get a quality tube... example the Lorenz PC88'ss were a great epiphany sadly they were around only for a limited time and are impossible to find.. The Vintage tubes were made in an era where the tube technology had to be of the utmost quality as everything ran on tubes at that time radar systems, televisions, radios on and on... The secrets behind the the building of those tubes died with the men that made them so we are now in an era of copies etc.. This is especially true in the Audiophile world... Now in the Guitar Amp World its in a way the same they have comes to a consensus of what tubes sound best based upon the circuitry of said amp so you usually only have to wade through 2 or 3 sets of tubes... IN the Audiophile world their are way more variables which brings me back to my point.. The best anyone can do is give a guideline based upon their equipment and what sound they are getting.. that sound will change for every headphone, every Dac that you change your source etc... So that's the reason some of us spent like me over 2500.00 to tube roll was to find that perfect quality with ones equipment..


Godspeed and good luck on finding the tube that sounds good for your setup.


----------



## adydula

Hello....
   
  Boy so many thoughts....I grew up in the tube era, and even worked for GE, was and still am an Extra Class Amateur Radio Operator, have a degree in Electrical Engineering...and drew so many tube load lines and graphs, built tube amps from scratch, transmitter, and even was a Radar Technican...so when I read things like:
   
  "The Vintage tubes were made in an era where the tube technology had to be of the utmost quality as everything ran on tubes at that time radar systems, televisions, radios on and on... The secrets behind the the building of those tubes died with the men that made them so we are now in an era of copies etc.. This is especially true in the Audiophile world..."
   
  I smile and laugh and reminisce...
   
  Variables...yes there are many....so, so many.....however I really dont think that many of the variables really make all that difference to most people...only a few real audiophile 'nuts' like us.
   
  I had three sets of speaker cables home, all the mega-buck $2000 type and was A/B'ing them over and over and over...and thinking I could tell the difference etc...but when doing blind testing well..not so certain..(smile).
   
  The 6N1P's from Schiit are really decent....and yes they may not be in the same league to your ears ...but to say a tube is better because its old and cost more or some combination, well I just cant buy that to the degree that it really is that much better etc...
   
  Just because a tube is used in a radar doesnt mean it has secrets that tubes being made today dont have.....I had 21 tubes in my transceiver that ran 24/7 for weeks on end...it was hot, drifted all over the place. The mil spec tubes still had to be the same electrically spec's....they had to amplify in the same linear ranges dependent of plate voltage etc....where they really differed was in the mechanical construction in the mica wafers, being thicker, to support the tube elements in their little vacuum world....more ruggedized for vibrations, less microphonics etc..when in a radio on the back of a jeep or tank running around in the woods!!! ...electrically they were/are the same. Some had metal or metallic covers/canisters for shielding, RFI Interferences both from inside and out. Some were picked out for lower noise characteristics for applications that specifically were sensitive in this area.....
   
  Gosh I replaced hundred of these 'so-called' miracle tubes back then....
   
  This magic from days past is a real myth....it makes for great stories...and the folks selling these tubes are making a great sum of money ....oh boy...Tubes today are copies of tubes from the old days...they are still tubes...put them on a curve tracer and see if they match the NOS originals....tubes made in the 30's and 40s' compare to those made in the 50's etc...which are really NOS or copies etc...
   
  Lets get together at someones place, with all our tubes and lets let a person swap tubes out. Take a NOS tube set and a new el crapo tube set and let someone swap the sets out for 10 times and pick out the ones that sound better to you...keep track and see if you really are hearing what your hearing...
   
  Please dont take this the wrong way....I hear differences in tube sounds....but they are not 'that' big of a difference...yes I prefer the 6N1Ps....but would like to see a Lorenz plot on a curve tracer vs the $20 Schiit el crapo 6N1Ps to see the 'electrical' diffrences if there are any...then we can chat.
   
  So who live on the east coast of the USA so we can get together to do some real A/B testing with controls.....should be fun and interesting!!
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

My newly made tubes I own (jj's,ev6922,6n23p) all sound boxy to me the nos tubes(s&h/valvo cca, Lorenz) I have, have a large and wide soundstage. I suppose they have similar make ups/electronics but I swear I can hear quite a difference between the two eras. Who knows, if your near nc hit me up I would love to check out the differences from a more technical standpoint.
   
   
   
   
   
  http://www.tubedepot.com/bsct-e88ccg-jj.html
   
  This tube claims to be a newly made tube that sounds nos, I'm weary to try it cause I'm not a big fan of the stock jj's. Plus for 110 bucks you could get some pretty decent real nos tubes. If anyone has heard these, please post your thoughts. Thanks


----------



## adydula

Hi, dailydoseofdaly!
   
  I am in nc I will PM you...
   
  Alex


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Hi, dailydoseofdaly!
> 
> I am in nc I will PM you...
> 
> Alex


 


   
  Sweet


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Lets get together at someones place, with all our tubes and lets let a person swap tubes out. Take a NOS tube set and a new el crapo tube set and let someone swap the sets out for 10 times and pick out the ones that sound better to you...keep track and see if you really are hearing what your hearing...
> 
> Please dont take this the wrong way....I hear differences in tube sounds....but they are not 'that' big of a difference...yes I prefer the 6N1Ps....but would like to see a Lorenz plot on a curve tracer vs the $20 Schiit el crapo 6N1Ps to see the 'electrical' diffrences if there are any...then we can chat.


 

 Hi,
   
  I respect your opinion and experience.
   
  But there really is a sonic difference between tubes. Sometimes they really do make a big difference.
   
  I recently replaced a set of cryo'ed 6N1Ps with a set of Telefunkens in my tube amp which uses the ECC88 family of tubes in the preamp section. Everything else in my system was unchanged.
   
  Before I carried the replacements, I was already very pleased with the sonic tube warmth provided by the 6N1Ps.
   
  After the replacement, even my family members (who are average "bass heads") noticed a significant sonic difference.
  For example, female vocals seemed to have more "soul" in their singing. The midrange was really fleshed out.
  I even enjoyed listening to the tracks of CDs which I had previously skipped over because they did not sound "right".
  Just one little change of 2 small preamp tubes was what it took to make every CD I owned sound musical and enjoyable!
   
  For those who have read Joe's Tube lore about the supposed hollow mid-range of the Telefunkens, I have this piece of advice.
  Please keep an open mind.
  Those Telefunkens really deserve their "legendary" status. 
  Tube-rolling costs $$$$ but it is worth the effort if you find something you like in the end.


----------



## WNBC

If somebody can produce a modern tube that sounds as good as the Lorenz we'd be all over it and saving money at the same time.
   
  Because the tube difference is not big to ONE person does not mean that it is not significant to another.  Let's get that out of the way now.  People in this thread who have heard the Lorenz have already said that it is one of the best they've ever heard.  The one person who has not heard it cannot say it is not significantly better until he has heard it.  And even then he may not like but that doesn't mean to other people it is not a significant improvement over the stock Schiit tubes.  
   
  I don't know about $2000 speaker cables but everybody that has a pair of Lorenz chime in and let me hear whether or not you think they are worth the $80-100 premium over the Schiit provided 6N1P?
   
  My guess is the majority will say yes and the cost of the Lorenz is not trivial nor is it a sum that demands loyalty to the tube.  Significantly better is a frame of mind.  I have a pair of $100 Gold Lions that are not significantly better than my $8 GE 6BZ7.  I would say the GE 6BZ7 are significantly better than my Lions.  If you blind A/B'd me I could pick out the Lions 10 out of 10 times.  We have preferences that are significant to us and it is regardless of whether the tube set is $10 or $100.  Not sure why that is so hard for people to get that.


----------



## jamato8

The cost of current product high quality tubes will not be less than the Lorenz. Also the skill and understanding of the metallurgy is both learned and and art, and many secrets have been lost.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> The cost of current product high quality tubes will not be less than the Lorenz. Also the skill and understanding of the metallurgy is both learned and and art, and many secrets have been lost.


 

 That's the problem with hand-made items.
   
  Lorenz tubes (the real German ones) before the Lorenz SEL rubbish are now as rare as Stradivarius violins.


----------



## WNBC

Exactly
  
  Quote: 





> *Please keep an open mind.*
> Those Telefunkens really deserve their "legendary" status.
> Tube-rolling costs $$$$ but it is worth the effort if you find something you like in the end.


----------



## MrScary

adydula said:


> Hello....
> 
> Boy so many thoughts....I grew up in the tube era, and even worked for GE, was and still am an Extra Class Amateur Radio Operator, have a degree in Electrical Engineering...and drew so many tube load lines and graphs, built tube amps from scratch, transmitter, and even was a Radar Technican...so when I read things like:
> 
> ...




Alex,

I hear where you are coming from as an Engineer I'm a Computer Engineer so I understand about tube tracing etc on and on the things that can scientifically be quantified.. But with tubes there are many variables that in all honesty we do not understand in the audiophile world.

Lets just take a quick look at the PC88 Lorenz tubes.. And by the way I'm not arguing just discussing. And no I'm not getting the spec's our for the Lorenz I'm off today hahah.. Anyway the Lorenz tubes require a 7 volt heater.. So if you call up Jason at Schiit and ask him "Can I use the PC88's" he will say no! Why? well number one he has never tested them with the Lyr in fact this thread thanks to Jamato was one of the reasons Schiit defaulted to the GE's instead of the 6N1p's to most people the Ge's sound better. But getting back to the Lorenz so they require a 7 Volt heater the Lyr is what 6.x something volts for the Heater.. So when we plug in the Lorenz the Lyr is setting the bias according to what it can put out.. Just as a comparison I'm also a guitar player and one of the big things with guitar amps is setting the Bias higher to get more gain but the consequence is usually lower life for said tube... So In the Lorenz case we have this strange thing going on... Firstly the Lyr is setting the bias low The Lorenz tubes are not getting 7 volts at the heater However, they sound not just a bit but leaps and bounds above almost every tube that has been rolled in this thread... So as much as I am a guy that likes to look at the Scientific method we have a one off here... So where does that leave us.? Bottom line is there is more going on then some tube tracer can give you... I think this is a great discussion topic...


Godspeed


----------



## obazavil

Well... I DO notice a difference between Mullards & Valvo & Lorenz 
   
  Maybe I'm biased hehe 
   
  Interesting points, everybody...


----------



## adydula

Gentlemen...
   
  Good discussions and points...yes I have not heard the wonderful Lorenz tubes but hope to one day....I stand open to that anytime.
   
  But the lost art and secrets being gone forever, well thats still a hard one to swallow...ah the mystique of vintage stuff...its adds to the overall tone of warm glowing tubes...and days past...
   
  I am not loyal to any one tube..just to facts and science.
   
  I am not here to rock the boat...and like great sound like we all do.
   
  I can not believe that it is impossible to make a tube that sounds as good as any NOS tube sounds.....
   
  The materials in the construction of tubes is readily available, the glass, the vacuum, the mica, etc ....this is no real rocket science....tubes have been around for a long time..and now they can put markings on a tube that dont easily wear off!!! LOL. Even the old tooling is still out there.
   
  It can be done.
   
  I wish we were all a lot closer it would be a neat excercise to be able to test you all!!!
   
  Enjoy.
  Alex


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





adydula said:


> But the lost art and secrets being gone forever, well thats still a hard one to swallow...ah the mystique of vintage stuff...its adds to the overall tone of warm glowing tubes...and days past...
> 
> I am not loyal to any one tube..just to facts and science.


 
   
  Let's hope that you can meet with someone like MrScary with hundreds of tubes, to make comparisons by yourself.
  About the lost art... well, i have no idea at all. I really hope is not lost, I love tubes


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What I wanted to know about the 6N1P vs 6BZ7 that Schiit supplies was how they compared in QUANTITY of bass, in mids, and in treble? Like a comparison. I don't know or really care about technicalities, just the gist of their sound. Like which one is brighter, which one was bassier, etc.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Lets just take a quick look at the PC88 Lorenz tubes.. And by the way I'm not arguing just discussing. And no I'm not getting the spec's our for the Lorenz I'm off today hahah.. Anyway the Lorenz tubes require a 7 volt heater.. So if you call up Jason at Schiit and ask him "Can I use the PC88's" he will say no! Why? well number one he has never tested them with the Lyr in fact this thread thanks to Jamato was one of the reasons Schiit defaulted to the GE's instead of the 6N1p's to most people the Ge's sound better. But getting back to the Lorenz so they require a 7 Volt heater the Lyr is what 6.x something volts for the Heater..


 

 Perhaps you should, in fact, check the datasheets for the P*C*88 and the P*CC*88...


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What I wanted to know about the 6N1P vs 6BZ7 that Schiit supplies was how they compared in QUANTITY of bass, in mids, and in treble? Like a comparison. I don't know or really care about technicalities, just the gist of their sound. Like which one is brighter, which one was bassier, etc.


 

 I don't like the Schiit 6N1P with the HE-6. The sound is fatiguing, too sharp treble. The GE 6BZ7 is more pleasant to listen to for me. I don't know about difference in bass, I haven't payed attention to that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so the 6BZ7 is softer in treble. That's a start. I plan on the Lyr with the DT990/600, so a softer treble is DEFINITELY ideal. I usually like a sharp treble, but the DT990 doesn't need any more of that, lol.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


oskari said:


> Perhaps you should, in fact, check the datasheets for the P*C*88 and the P*CC*88...


 
_Actually, I think he meant PCC88s...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_
   
_Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_
_-HK sends_


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## adydula

I find the 6N1Ps very engaging, warm and pleasantly musical without any fatigue at all. The have a nice overall balance and are pleasing after hours of listening.
  They have uncanny 3 dimensional characteristics that wrap around your head and are very revealing. The treble is 100% neutral, accurate.
   
  The 6BZ7s are very musical, but not as open and spacey as the 6N1P's. The Treble is not very pronounced over exagerated at all, very neutral or flat. The bass is taunt and
  accurate, garbage in, garbage out.
   
  Bass on both tubes is equal in weight,
   
  Treble is equal in both.
   
  The only difference is the soundstage or 3d effect
   
  Alex


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks. I had the 6N1P before and liked them with the HE4 and D7000, but I believe the 6Bz7 will be better for the treble extreme DT990.


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## adydula

Mad..
   
  There is a site that allows you to compare frequency plots of headphones, I posted a few plots on several threads....comparing the LCD2's to several other headphones...
   
  If you this thread not only do tubes 'seem' to make audible sound differences but cables, interconnects, electronics, power supplies etc and on and on and on...within limits of human hearing and BS. (smile)...
   
  If you look at a freq plot of a transducer and its honest and accurate, then at least you can see what the speaker element in the headphone can reproduce.
   
  If you try to boost, or reduce or manipulate the sound based on swapping tubes, this may work to some degree, but depending on you transducers it may be a hard thing to really do if your lookng for accuracy....
   
  I look for the best freq curve and a can that is as neutral in response as possible, not boomy etc...yes there is a cost and budget....and trade offs...
   
  There comes a point where its let get back to the music and that in itself has soooooo many variables in recording, mastering, etc...
   
  All the best
  Merry Christmas!!
  Alex


----------



## adydula

Found the site:
   
http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php
   
  Take a look at the graphs and the bass end....low frequency....if you think that the low end can be totally corrected via a tube change..
  well......think again.
   

   
  All the best...how about a set of curves in a ref system like these with different tubes....
   
  Alex


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have a problem with the DT990's low end whatsoever. Its unobtrusive, unlike most bass heavy cans. I just want a slighter softer upper end. Its not something that ineeded a lot of science for. Just wanted to know which tube had softer treble, is all. I'm 95% fine with the DT990 as is.


----------



## adydula

Mad,
   
  Understand about the science....but it helps make better informed and less emotional decisons...
   
  The cans you have are very nice....if you think the bass is unobtrusive with the bass repsonse as plotted then the LCD2's would be less unobtrusive and less 'boomy' or less full...pick your adjective. (Not saying one is better for you than the other...)
   
  If your to pick a tube that they say has lots of bass etc with a set of cans that arent flat or have a good low end plot then this may exacerbate the low end...good or bad depending on your taste or 'ear'...
   
  Let us know how your 6BZ7's perform in your setup.....
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## 333jeffery

I've been using some National/Matsuschiita 6DJ8's I got off of ebay for the past two weeks. They've become my favorite tubes in the Lyr, even a tad bit better than the Mullards I love so much. Very nice sound, overall. Clean without being thin.
  The real test comes next week: I have a DNA Sonett amp coming in. Gonna compare the Lyr to it to see which I will be keeping.


----------



## BMBROWN911

I've had my Lyr now for for 3-4 months and bought it with the NOS 6BZ7 tubes and was wondering what peoples general consensus was with them? My headphones are Senn HD600's which are by no means bright but since buying the Lyr these things are almost as bright as the Grado SR225's I used to have. Not only the brightness but it seems like the bass I used to enjoy with these is nearly gone from the last amps I've owned. I can't even clearly follow bass lines anymore in the music. While I don't want to rag on them or anything but I can't really think of any redeeming qualities to these tubes yet. What are these tubes supposed to be good at?


----------



## MrScary

333jeffery said:


> I've been using some National/Matsuschiita 6DJ8's I got off of ebay for the past two weeks. They've become my favorite tubes in the Lyr, even a tad bit better than the Mullards I love so much. Very nice sound, overall. Clean without being thin.
> The real test comes next week: I have a DNA Sonett amp coming in. Gonna compare the Lyr to it to see which I will be keeping.




They are fair tubes at best I sold those long ago... maybe with your sound chain they sound better than the Mullards but which Mullards there are many variants..


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## Likui

If I want a tube for my lyr that is quiet, really strong bass and some sparkle in the trebles.What would be the best tube to use?
  Mullard CV2492 / E88CC ??
 Gold Lion?
  Or are there anything better?
   
  Thanks
  Matthew


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey Likui. We can only speak in generalities, as your audio chain will have much to do with how much bass, mids, dimensionality or treble you hear. Many Mullard tubes share those characteristics (CV2492 is one of them). You'll also find that German E188CC's or Amperex 7308's fit your bill. I'd say that either of these would be a good place to start and then roll from there. Unfortunately (or fortunately - depending on your viewpoint), there's no direct path to finding your optimum tube. Too many variables. Then when you find your ideal tube for your chain, you'll upgrade something and the rolling starts again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





likui said:


> If I want a tube for my lyr that is quiet, really strong bass and some sparkle in the trebles.What would be the best tube to use?
> Mullard CV2492 / E88CC ??
> Gold Lion?
> Or are there anything better?
> ...


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## sampson_smith

Subscribed! So much to read here. Thanks very much for the plethora of posts, all!


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## HK_sends

Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> Subscribed! So much to read here. Thanks very much for the plethora of posts, all!


 
  It's our pleasure to promote and perpetuate prolific posts in perpetuity for your personal pondering, in public or private, providing you proffer a preponderance of personal proverbs of your positive, or perhaps negative, experiences in said posted plethora...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Err...what was the question again? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  Poop! Now I gotta go pee!


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## Misterrogers

Wow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> It's our pleasure to promote and perpetuate prolific posts in perpetuity for your personal pondering, in public or private, providing you proffer a preponderance of personal proverbs of your positive, or perhaps negative, experiences in said posted plethora...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


hk_sends said:


> It's our pleasure to promote and perpetuate prolific posts in perpetuity for your personal pondering, in public or private, providing you proffer a preponderance of personal proverbs of your positive, or perhaps negative, experiences in said posted plethora...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villian by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengence; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.


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## HK_sends

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villian by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengence; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.


 
  Yeah, I always enjoy watching that part.  I guess Evie's question applies to me as well, "Are you a crazy person?"
   
  Guilty as charged.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sampson_smith

Thanks for the warm wordy welcome, HK and cohorts! I heard that you tubies are a strange sort, but now I am experiencing this, firsthand. I hope it's not catching, but you may also call me "V", for I generally go by V, Vin, Vince or Vincent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Near the beginning of this thread, there was quite a lot of hype concerning the 6N23P's (vs the 6N1P's that sound rather unmusical and thin to these ears; maybe extensive burn-in is warranted). Is this still the case, or can I expect to have to seek out rather expensive Amperex PQ's/Bugle Boys and/or Mullards and call it a day? So far, I am rather happy with my Gold Lion E88CC's and Sylvania 6BZ7's, but have an itch to try several more.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> Thanks for the warm wordy welcome, HK and cohorts! I heard that you tubies are a strange sort, but now I am experiencing this, firsthand. I hope it's not catching, but you may also call me "V", for I generally go by V, Vin, Vince or Vincent.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hi, V!
   
  There are two fairly low cost tube options with excellent sound I can recommend:
   
  Tungsram PCC88 which have a surprisingly good overall sound (especially when using tube dampers).  You can find them here: http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm  or perhaps even cheaper for a set on ebay.
   
  The other tube is the Matsus*ta 6922 tube found here: http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm  ...another surprisingly good sounding tube.
   
  There are many people that do like the 6N23Ps (I had a set for a while myself), but there are some other reasonably priced options that can tailor your sound such as the above.
   
  I will say (as would Mr. Scary), the higher you set the bar for sound quality, the more you will end up spending on tubes.  Good luck in your tube rolling journey!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## J&J

I use both the 6N1P and 6BZ7 in my LYR and both have exc sq but the large sound stage with the 6NIPs is addictive even if the 6BZ7s are smoother with more pronounced bass on my HF HE 5LE That just my experience.


----------



## BMBROWN911

What other qualities do the 6N1P's have that the GE 6BZ7's don't have? Is there supposed to be a burn in time for tubes like most amps or is it just a matter of them warming up and good to go? I probably have about 40-50 hours on them so far. Don't know much about tubes. Might have to try the 6N1P's tho.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villian by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengence; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.


 

 One thing eludes me.....
   
  For that amount of *V*erbose *V*erbiage, you have left out the most important *V, *and that's *VALVES*!
   
*



*


----------



## hodgjy

I'm not a Lyr user, but I do have some experience with some preamp tubes that Lyr can handle.  I've always been a fan of the Sylvania JAN 6DJ8.  They are very clear, smooth, and have low microphonics.  They are also very affordable.


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## drgajet

Just ordered a Lyra with 6BZ7 tubes and an extra set of 6N1P tubes to get started.  I don't want to buy a lot more tubes just to find "The One".  I have heard good things about the 6N23P and Matsu****a E88CC tubes.  I like a balanced sound with strong bass and I listen to mostly hard rock and edm.  Which of these tubes would be better for me? Are there others I should consider?  I really don't want to spend more than $100 for the pair and will be listening with lcd-3.


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## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





drgajet said:


> Just ordered a Lyra with 6BZ7 tubes and an extra set of 6N1P tubes to get started.  I don't want to buy a lot more tubes just to find "The One".  I have heard good things about the 6N23P and Matsu****a E88CC tubes.  I like a balanced sound with strong bass and I listen to mostly hard rock and edm.  Which of these tubes would be better for me? Are there others I should consider?  I really don't want to spend more than $100 for the pair and will be listening with lcd-3.


 


   
  I have a pair of 6n23p's that I use with my lcd2. The majority of the time I roll this tube is for rock music. I like the way this tube presents drums. They have decent low end, Sounds like a boost at 1k which makes the beater of kick more present. Mid highs to highs are prevalent (maybe slightly to much for my audio chain), regardless cymbals clean/clear. Soundstage is small but not as boxy as my other 6922 imo.
   
  This may not be the "one" for you but is a nice alternative to the stock tubes imo. Does a nice job with rock at a pretty low price.


----------



## drgajet

Sounds good for what I need and the price isn't bad either.  Thanks for the input.  Anyone else have thoughts, I don't want to buy both if I don't have to........Yet.  If tube rolling is like the rest of this hobby I'm sure I'll buy more than I need and spend way to much money sooner or later.


----------



## sampson_smith

I was just wondering what the general consensus is on what are the best sounding 6BZ7/6BQ7A tubes? There are a lot of them (various GE's, RCA's, etc.) and they are very affordable. I hope that there is an obvious variety to try out, before I errantly purchase 10 random pairs on eBay. Most are not matched, but I assume that is the risk you run when purchasing $10/pair tubes.


----------



## shamrock134

Is there any sort of consensus on a tube that brings out the best in the LCD-2 rev1? So maintaining the bass (although I don't mind a boost/enhancement) and creamy mids whilst giving the treble a bit more presence. Most people tend to agree now that the treble of the Rev.1 is shelved down?


----------



## FrenchChemist

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> Is there any sort of consensus on a tube that brings out the best in the LCD-2 rev1? So maintaining the bass (although I don't mind a boost/enhancement) and creamy mids whilst giving the treble a bit more presence. Most people tend to agree now that the treble of the Rev.1 is shelved down?


 

 The treble of the LCD-2.1 is indeed shelved down compared to many headphones, but the Siemens CCa in the Lyr add strong, tight bass, tremendous energy with the drums, larger soundstage, more air, and a very nice treble extension and details. They're not easy to find, and not cheap, but if you want to know how good your Lyr/LCD-2.1 combo can sound, they're a good starting point.
  If you want to bring out the most of your LCD-2's treble, I also suggest you try other cables. Though I sold my LCD-2.1 before receiving the Q cables, they really improve my LCD-3's treble, much more than I expected, without any penalty to the bass (it's in fact tighter with the Qs). Since Both headphones share the same overall sound signature, I suppose they would do the same to the LCD-2.1.


----------



## shamrock134

Thanks for the recommendation. I don't plan to change the cable again as I'm pretty happy with the DHC Macromolecule ergonomically although I dunno if it made any changes to the sound. I should imagine tubes will have a more noticeable effect on the sound. I will have a look at those Siemens ones. 
   
  Currently using the stock 6BZ7 tubes. I intend to get a Bifrost at some point too, but for now I'm running it out of the Essence STX's DAC.
  
   
  EDIT: Just seen those Siemens tubes going for £70 each on ebay.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






   
  Quote: 





frenchchemist said:


> The treble of the LCD-2.1 is indeed shelved down compared to many headphones, but the Siemens CCa in the Lyr add strong, tight bass, tremendous energy with the drums, larger soundstage, more air, and a very nice treble extension and details. They're not easy to find, and not cheap, but if you want to know how good your Lyr/LCD-2.1 combo can sound, they're a good starting point.
> If you want to bring out the most of your LCD-2's treble, I also suggest you try other cables. Though I sold my LCD-2.1 before receiving the Q cables, they really improve my LCD-3's treble, much more than I expected, without any penalty to the bass (it's in fact tighter with the Qs). Since Both headphones share the same overall sound signature, I suppose they would do the same to the LCD-2.1.


----------



## SeaHawk

I'm just looking to get started in rolling some tubes in my new Lyr but wondered if anyone had suggestions for a decent tube with a low noise floor.  Currently using a Grado RS2i with the stock E88CC's with clearly audible hiss and looking to lower the noise floor a bit so it's at least not as noticeable, and unfamiliar with the different classes of compatible tubes to know which direction to go.
   
  Any help would be greatly appreciated


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Seahawk that's strange the newly made tube I have are dead quite and non microphonic, including the e88cc schiit sent with the amp. They would probably switch your pair out. If that doesn't fix it then it maybe coming from somewhere else in the chain.
   
  French Chemist IMO the s&h cca is one of the most interesting how they could make a tube that sounds like you are in a concert hall is beyond me. However I feel like its too relaxed for the LCD2r1. It's like you sink into the music, which can be nice sometimes especially with classical and jazz.I find myself reaching for the k701 more often,since sound sig is more forward and bright. This just my opinion, ymmv etc.


----------



## FrenchChemist

"Too relaxed" is certainly not how I would characterize the S&H CCa  with either LCD-2.1 or LCD-3
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




,  but it's true that, as their energy is not concentrated on the center of the soundstage as, for example, 6N1P, the might appear more relaxed. My Siemens E88CC sound more energetic than the CCa but not as airy and refined as the CCa: slightly "over the top" and messier to my ears. When it comes down to energy vs details & transparent sound, my vote is on the details, even for (hard) rock. I listen to a lot hard rock and metal and I never found that the drums lacked any impact with CCa and the LCD-2.1, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## SeaHawk

No doubt the Grado's are a bit more sensitive than the two cans you listed... Anyone using Grados with the Lyr not get any background hiss what-so-ever?  (Note - the background hiss is present with no input connected at all, and not affected by the volume control, and there's really not that much but can be heard during quiet passages).


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> I'm just looking to get started in rolling some tubes in my new Lyr but wondered if anyone had suggestions for a decent tube with a low noise floor.  Currently using a Grado RS2i with the stock E88CC's with clearly audible hiss and looking to lower the noise floor a bit so it's at least not as noticeable, and unfamiliar with the different classes of compatible tubes to know which direction to go.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated


 


  I have the Lorenz gray shield. They are silent as far as I can tell but maybe I dont hear as good as you. If you stop by the meet on the 21st you can try for yourself. I would LOVE to hear your RS2i.


----------



## SeaHawk

Alas, I'll be out of the country that week..  I always miss out on the fun stuff! 
  And I think it's more a matter of headphone sensitivity than hearing


----------



## Uchiya

Bout tried every high-end headphone, except the LCD-3's and distinctly different HD800.  I want to give the Lyr one more shot (so beautiful) with the right tubes and the HD800  Before that, I wanted to know if these were the right S&H's for the LYR http://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_MPs_1974_E88CC_6922_A_Frame_Gold_Pin_MINT_p/857.htm ?  Thanks.


----------



## Misterrogers

These certainly are the right family of tubes. Lyr can run with 6DJ8's, ECC88's, 6922's, E88CC's, 7308's, E188CC's, PCC88's or even E288CC's. Not to mention 6BQ7's or 6BZ7's. The last four are not strictly spec'ed but are known to work (some quite well). These S&H's are pretty good tubes, and depending on the rest of your audio chain you may find them very much to your liking. S&H 70's A-Frames are good, but not as good as 60's O-Getters or late 50's/60 D-Getters. Honestly, it's tough to quantify in terms of what's 'right' for Lyr. It' comes down to chain, preferences, etc.
  
  Quote: 





uchiya said:


> Bout tried every high-end headphone, except the LCD-3's and distinctly different HD800.  I want to give the Lyr one more shot (so beautiful) with the right tubes and the HD800  Before that, I wanted to know if these were the right S&H's for the LYR http://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_MPs_1974_E88CC_6922_A_Frame_Gold_Pin_MINT_p/857.htm ?  Thanks.


----------



## sampson_smith

You know a lot about Lyr-compatible tubes, Misterrogers. If only one day I could keep the compatible serial numbers straight. Dreams... *tsk*


----------



## Misterrogers

A clear indication that I need a life 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> You know a lot about Lyr-compatible tubes, Misterrogers. If only one day I could keep the compatible serial numbers straight. Dreams... *tsk*


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Hi, V!
> 
> There are two fairly low cost tube options with excellent sound I can recommend:
> 
> ...




Wow HK thanks for quoting me I still have a presence here  I am back guys from my vacation. I took a quick look and see no Lorenz PC88's have shown up ;(... Yeah just use me as a lesson guys.. If you do take the red pill and push the Lyr to its limit's to get the best sound possible you will run in circles and finalize on like 2 tube sets.. But be broker by over 2,000 dollars. Any one wanting to see my tube purchase's receipts just send me a message and you will be very scared... Sadly one of Lorenz tube's is making alot of noise now on startup of the Lyr I thought I would get more usage out of the PC88's running them at a lower bias then the 7 volt heater.. My Bad they are tubes and unpredictable.....


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Alright I should have learned my lesson from scary but after a 4 months the tube bug plus extra Chrismas money has brought me out of retirement. I picked up the Matsush*ta 6922(tubemonger) and the Mullard cv2493(upscale). I will write some impressions when they come in.
   
  P.S there are on 2 pair of the matsush*ta left


----------



## Misterrogers

Shameless plug disguised as community service 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - I have a couple pair of Matsush*ta's for sale in classified, one of them cryo'd.


----------



## MrScary

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Alright I should have learned my lesson from scary but after a 4 months the tube bug plus extra Chrismas money has brought me out of retirement. I picked up the Matsush*ta 6922(tubemonger) and the Mullard cv2493(upscale). I will write some impressions when they come in.
> 
> P.S there are on 2 pair of the matsush*ta left




I had those tubes that you are getting. The mullards are ok IMHO I sold them though good luck hopefully you will have good things to say with your audio chain


----------



## Uchiya

Anyone here know a tube that could curtail the treble emphasis with the hd800?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Scary, I hadn't heard a mullard tube yet and am curious to hear their sonic signature just seemed like I'm missing out on a whole manufactor. I wanted a mullard that was pretty characteristic of the maker. Do you remember if it the cv2493 compared well to your other mullard pairs?
   
  Uchiya, I have been reading about 7308 and how they are relaxed at the top. May compliment the hd800 well. I have limited experienced with them so maybe someone else will chime in, who owns a few.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> Anyone here know a tube that could curtail the treble emphasis with the hd800?


 


   
  Mullard 6DJ8/ECC88 IEC Label.


----------



## danska

Hi guys,
   
  I put a few good hours yesterday on my new (to me) Lyr. I picked it up from a local, and it came with a nice assortment of tubes and some socket savers. Quite to good deal if you ask me!
   
  Tubes I received are:
   
  Schiit 6N1P
  JJ E88CC
  Bugle Boys (labels are rubbed off 6DJ8/E88CC Holland)
  RCA 6DJ8 (these ones are shot, noisy and highly microphonic)
  RCA 6BQ7A/6B27
  Sylvania 6BQ7A/6B27
  National Electronics 6922
   
  Currently I'm using the amp with my Sennheiser HD 650s, and actual have liked all three sets of tubes I've listened to (6N1P, RCA 6B27, National Electronics). I'm picking up a set of LCD-2s soon, which is pretty much the reason for this amp purchase. I can say the Lyr compares pretty well to my maxxed WA6, not listening to them A/B. I plan on doing a comparison once I listen to this amp a bit more and figure out which tubes to run.
   
  Any comments on which ones you prefer with Sennheisers?


----------



## pseudohippy

Misterrogers, I hope you got your pm and have been checking your site.
   
  Speaking of, I should be getting some Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 pretty soon and I am wondering if anyone remembers where in this thread they may have been commented on. I need to dig up Mr Scary's list also. Anyhow, cant wait to get some new tubes to play with.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


danska said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I put a few good hours yesterday on my new (to me) Lyr. I picked it up from a local, and it came with a nice assortment of tubes and some socket savers. Quite to good deal if you ask me!
> 
> ...


 
  I can't speak for the Sennheisers, but I have really become partial to the National 6922s for my LCD-3 (and LCD-2 rev.2 before that).  At one time or another, I used all those tubes with my Lyr and LCD-2s.

 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## koonhua90

^ I use Valvo CCa, Amperex 7308 and Telefunken E88CC with mine


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





danska said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I put a few good hours yesterday on my new (to me) Lyr. I picked it up from a local, and it came with a nice assortment of tubes and some socket savers. Quite to good deal if you ask me!
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Amperex A-frame Orange Globes accentuate the HD650's strengths while adding some forward energy and dynamics. I've preferred them to the Lorenz Stuttgart, Bugle Boys, RCA's and Cryoset 6N23P for the HD650 in all iterations of my setup.


----------



## Uchiya

Has anyone here tried the various Cca, e188cc, e88cc types of a particular maker?  How big are the differences, night and day or merely subtle.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> Has anyone here tried the various Cca, e188cc, e88cc types of a particular maker?  How big are the differences, night and day or merely subtle.


 

 Joe's Tube lore is pretty accurate for Siemens and Amperex/Philips.
   
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
   
  The only thing I disagree with him is his assessment of the Telefunken and Valvo line of tubes.
  Telefunkens and Valvos (from Hamburg Germany) are not as bad sounding as he makes it out to be.
  There is a sonic difference between the different tube types (e.g. Grey Plate vs Silver Plate) and vintage (e.g. "D" vs "O" getter, double getter support vs single stem getter etc..).


----------



## Uchiya

Going back to the LYR from a solid state setup, it's so funny to open the package and see what you paid for in tubes.  These miniature things no bigger than a thumb being so costly..  Shocks me everytime but I sure do love the glow and so too do the stink bugs.


----------



## Lorspeaker

hi guys, tubenoob here.....
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-NOS-MULLARD-CV4010-VALVE-EF95-M8100-6AK5-5654-Tubes-/290609438068?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a9ac1d74#ht_2840wt_754
   
  i have a pair of the above, a friend recommended it for my littledot mk3, works fine.
   
  can i use them on the LYR???


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> hi guys, tubenoob here.....
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-NOS-MULLARD-CV4010-VALVE-EF95-M8100-6AK5-5654-Tubes-/290609438068?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a9ac1d74#ht_2840wt_754
> 
> ...


 
  Sorry, but they aren't compatible with the Lyr (I had them in my Little Dot MK IV).  You need to find some of the following: 6922 / E88CC / 7308 / CV2492 / CV2493 / ECC88 / PCC88 / E188CC / CV4108 / CV4109 / 6BZ7 / 6DJ8 and couple others I may be missing (like the Russian 6N23P and 6N1P).
   
  Hope this helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Lorspeaker

thank u F-15 pilot 
  much appreciate your info!!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> thank u F-15 pilot
> much appreciate your info!!


 
  I appreciate the compliment, but I didn't fly them...I just supported them (and other aircraft) from the ground.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


hk_sends said:


> I appreciate the compliment, but I didn't fly them...I just supported them (and other aircraft) from the ground.


 

 What? You'll teach me how to fly a plane? SWEET.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> What? You'll teach me how to fly a plane? SWEET.


 
  I only taught take-offs, somebody else taught landings...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Pudu

I've been neglecting my Lyr-Lcds in favour of a tubey T1 combo for far too long. But I recently made some modifications to the headband on the LCDs and they are now substantially more comfortable to wear for longer periods. 

However... I'm finding the music feels a bit lifeless - not enough sparkle were there should be, not enough immediacy, it feels a bit muted. I'm feeding it with a Xonar STX and actually prefer the sound out of the headphone jack on the sound card to the Lyr at the moment. I know I probably need a desktop DAC but I'm waiting till I find one that will be an objective and noticeable improvement over the STX and Squeezebox options I currently have. I want to see what the Schiit lads come up with and then maybe grab a Bifrost if I can't talk myself into the higher end stuff. 


The amp is still using the stock 6BZ7 tubes it shipped with. Can anyone recommend a pair of tubes to bring at bit more life to the party? Would prefer something that can be had without too much difficulty (I hate tube hunting on ebay and forsale forums).

Cheers


----------



## Quake1028

So, which tubes should I choose for the Lyr when I buy it from Schiit?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





pudu said:


> I've been neglecting my Lyr-Lcds in favour of a tubey T1 combo for far too long. But I recently made some modifications to the headband on the LCDs and they are now substantially more comfortable to wear for longer periods.
> However... I'm finding the music feels a bit lifeless - not enough sparkle were there should be, not enough immediacy, it feels a bit muted. I'm feeding it with a Xonar STX and actually prefer the sound out of the headphone jack on the sound card to the Lyr at the moment. I know I probably need a desktop DAC but I'm waiting till I find one that will be an objective and noticeable improvement over the STX and Squeezebox options I currently have. I want to see what the Schiit lads come up with and then maybe grab a Bifrost if I can't talk myself into the higher end stuff.
> The amp is still using the stock 6BZ7 tubes it shipped with. Can anyone recommend a pair of tubes to bring at bit more life to the party? Would prefer something that can be had without too much difficulty (I hate tube hunting on ebay and forsale forums).
> Cheers


 
  Give these a try:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
   
  or these (some burn-in required):
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
   
  Both reasonably priced and should offer a somewhat livelier sound than the 6BZ7s.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Pudu

Brilliant.

The Matsu****as look the business. I'll give them a try. Going to check out what else they list as "best buy" while I'm there too.

Thanks for quick, helpful response!

Cheers


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Brilliant.
> The Matsu****as look the business. I'll give them a try. Going to check out what else they list as "best buy" while I'm there too.
> Thanks for quick, helpful response!
> Cheers


 
  You are quite welcome.  Be aware, the premium tubes go for an arm and a leg...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Pudu

hk_sends said:


> You are quite welcome.  Be aware, the premium tubes go for an arm and a leg...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'll manage to keep some self restraint. Truthfully I'm still smitten with the Wa2-T1 lusciousness, I just want to be able to listen to these guys too without feeling a bit blah for the first 1/2 hour. Besides, gotta save up for the goût du jour à la iBasso.

Thanks again!


----------



## mmayer167

^ look at the 6n1p from schiit as well. I really like my pair. Very spacious and 3d sounding imo.
   
  I have the matsu****as rolled right now and will be leaving them in for a while, they are pretty musical compared to the crisp energetic sound of the 6n1p from schiit. The Lorenz only make an appearance on special occasions. 
   
  -M


----------



## Pudu

Great info. Schiit tubes are very reasonably priced if I recall correctly.

Thanks!


----------



## mmayer167

^ yea, 20 bucks for a tracer matched pair of 6n1p. Killer buy imo. 
   
  -M


----------



## Pudu

In fact, you have come up with the most expedient solution (whether it's the best, remains to be seen). You reminded me that when I bought the Lyr months ago, I plumped for a second set of tubes. I just checked the box and found the 6N1Ps sitting there waiting for me to try them for the first time.

 Me not so smart .

Now I just have to wait for the 6BZ7's to cool down enough to pop out.


----------



## mmayer167

^ haha


----------



## Pudu

Did the switcheroo and my immediate impression is ... you are correct!

It sounds much more forward and immediate with the 6N1Ps. I'll need to give it a while to see how they settle into my brain, but so far I like 'em.

Oh where, oh where have they been for the past 4 months? 

Thanks again!


----------



## shamrock134

What are the main differences between the different tubes Schiit sell (6BZ7,E88CC,6NIP)? I currently have the 6BZ7s.


----------



## Argo Duck

Pudu, how are the 6N1Ps developing for you?
   
  They were a bit "hot" and "brash" for my taste TBH, but maybe I should give them another spin. OTOH the 6922s HK (and MacedonianHero before that) recommends were a big leap up from the 6BZ7s and showed me how much difference tube-rolling can make with the Lyr.


----------



## Pudu

argo duck said:


> Pudu, how are the 6N1Ps developing for you?
> 
> They were a bit "hot" and "brash" for my taste TBH, but maybe I should give them another spin. OTOH the 6922s HK (and MacedonianHero before that) recommends were a big leap up from the 6BZ7s and showed me how much difference tube-rolling can make with the Lyr.




I haven't had a chance to run them for more than a few hours, so it's probably unfair to comment.


But that's never stopped me before so... my immediate reaction is that I like the brashness. They are definitely more 'in your face' and edgy than the 6BZ7s. I much prefer that as the latter seemed far too muted. To be fair I don't look for musical or flowing in the Lyr-LCDs, I have a different rig for that. I want clarity, detail, sparkle, and even edge. 

I will pick up some Matu's though. For the price I think it's worth mucking around a bit. I don't plan on going on any Quest for the Holy graiLorenz, but having a few tubes to roll should be fun. 

Incidentally I just revisited your wonderful DAC thread - I'm still trying to talk myself into a Bifrost to sit beneath the Lyr.


----------



## shamrock134

Hmm I might have to get a Bifrost and some 6N1Ps in the future to add some brightness to the LCD-2r1.
   
  So is the difference that obvious between the 6N1P and 6BZ7 Pudu?


----------



## Pudu

Well it was to me. 

Audiophilia is pretty subjective so take it for what's it's worth. But I found it immediately noticeable. Of course I was looking for a change so.... 

For the money I'd say it's worth a try. I don't know much about tubes though. You might be better pursuing something else if you're going to the trouble of ordering a second set. Mine just happened to be very easily accessible (only because I'm a dumb@ss).


----------



## Argo Duck

Tempting isn't it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  6N1P does seem like your tube.
   
  FWIW the Matsu's pretty much stopped my search - they're "more than good enough" for what I want. For me, wonderful bass and low-mid presence and warmth without overdoing it, and still good highs.
  
  Quote: 





pudu said:


> I haven't had a chance to run them for more than a few hours, so it's probably unfair to comment.
> But that's never stopped me before so... my immediate reaction is that I like the brashness. They are definitely more 'in your face' and edgy than the 6BZ7s. I much prefer that as the latter seemed far too muted. To be fair I don't look for musical or flowing in the Lyr-LCDs, I have a different rig for that. I want clarity, detail, sparkle, and even edge.
> I will pick up some Matu's though. For the price I think it's worth mucking around a bit. I don't plan on going on any Quest for the Holy graiLorenz, but having a few tubes to roll should be fun.
> *Incidentally I just revisited your wonderful DAC thread - I'm still trying to talk myself into a Bifrost to sit beneath the Lyr.*


----------



## BMBROWN911

I always thought the 6BZ7's were supposed to be the livelier tubes of the bunch that Schitt offers on their site. Am I mistaken? These 6N1P's sound like something worth trying.


----------



## Pudu

Let me reaffirm that I much much prefer the 6N1P tubes to the 6BZ7.


----------



## Frank I

For anyone interested I have six listed for sale. 6N1P all nos and never used for sale all from voshod  want 24.00 shipped for the six tubes.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hey gang got the matsush*ta and the mullard cv2493 last week. Both are nice sounding pairs. The matsush*ta is a little warm slightly forward and one of, if not the best bass on a 6922 I have heard.
  I've read the cv2493 is not as pronounced on the low and high ends of the spectrum as its brother the cv2492, and imo it did turn out to be the most neutral sounding tube I have. Tight bass,great mids that the mullard is known for, and slightly airy highs. It's on the warm side too, but like I mentioned before none of the frequency are overly present.
  The cv2493 appears to be small in stature compared to my other pairs and needs more volume to reach the same sound level as the matsush*ta.
   
  Has anyone noticed on the the matsush*ta that the center image sounds off, like it's wide or pushed to the sides of the headphones. Kinda like a cross feed effect. It seems to be most notable with high def music. Just curious if someone else noticed this or if it's my chain?
   
  edit.
  Fyi my stagedac crossfeed is all the way off


----------



## ckc527

Hi,
   
  Which tubes are recommended for Jazz and female vocals? I'm using the Lyr with HD-600. Looking for tubes that can make the vocals sound more warm and sweet.
   
  Thanks,
  ckc


----------



## Uchiya

Anyone ever experience this noise?  It sounds like a power saw going through metal from a distant point.  Lyr's making that noise from one of my e88cc tubes, left side.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> Anyone ever experience this noise?  It sounds like a power saw going through metal from a distant point.  Lyr's making that noise from one of my e88cc tubes, left side.


 


   
  Tubemonger wrote to me about what a tube with really bad microphonics would sound like and they described it as a high pitched howling sound. Is it a vintage pair?


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> Anyone ever experience this noise?  It sounds like a power saw going through metal from a distant point.  Lyr's making that noise from one of my e88cc tubes, left side.


 

 I believe that's the sound of  a dead tube.  
   
  I dropped one of my costly Brimar CV2492 tubes on the floor a few weeks ago, doh!, and it's making the same noise now.


----------



## Uchiya

It rarely occurs.  Usually when I've left the Lyr on for too long.  Goes away after a few seconds.


----------



## MrScary

sorry Man for the very late delay but I have been busy with my Band that I play in and other scary tubes for amps hahaha ummm I will be honest with you I do not remember now If it was to me somehow special I would still own it or it would have stuck in my head I only have umm one set of the Mullards that I have are the ECC88's they stuck in my head. not that the other Mullards are bad just I had to make alot of choices..


----------



## MrScary

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Tubemonger wrote to me about what a tube with really bad microphonics would sound like and they described it as a high pitched howling sound. Is it a vintage pair?




ummm being micro-phonic is inherit ant to many tubes how much they are microphonic is another. Some high pitch thing is just one of the many things one way hear but some would even say microphonic tubes are ok for something like a Headphone amp as in theory there is no loud sounds around for the tubes to pic up on... Now in the Guitar Amp world there is a perfect example where Microphonic is non acceptable and for me i just replaced brand new tubes in one of my amps due to their known micro phonic qualities


----------



## MrScary

Yeah one of my Lorenz prized PCC88's started dying a early death long before it's time you can never really predict when they will fail sucks...


----------



## MrScary

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Hey gang got the matsush*ta and the mullard cv2493 last week. Both are nice sounding pairs. The matsush*ta is a little warm slightly forward and one of, if not the best bass on a 6922 I have heard.
> I've read the cv2493 is not as pronounced on the low and high ends of the spectrum as its brother the cv2492, and imo it did turn out to be the most neutral sounding tube I have. Tight bass,great mids that the mullard is known for, and slightly airy highs. It's on the warm side too, but like I mentioned before none of the frequency are overly present.
> The cv2493 appears to be small in stature compared to my other pairs and needs more volume to reach the same sound level as the matsush*ta.
> 
> ...




The Mat's were a nice experiment for me yeah I noticed alot of weird things about them reason they were sold... godspeed


----------



## MrScary

argo duck said:


> Pudu, how are the 6N1Ps developing for you?
> 
> They were a bit "hot" and "brash" for my taste TBH, but maybe I should give them another spin. OTOH the 6922s HK (and MacedonianHero before that) recommends were a big leap up from the 6BZ7s and showed me how much difference tube-rolling can make with the Lyr.




YOu hit it on the head my friend yes the 6N1p's by no means are some 3D tube my old 60's pair is maybe only 25% better than the newer Russian 6N1p's they do have an odd sound .I tried these out extensively and still have a set for me they would be my last set of tubes and then I would go solid state for an amp haha thats about 7 years
away by figuring in my tube supply... the 6n1p are a nice starting point but here is nothing about them that is truly good at all..


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> Amperex A-frame Orange Globes accentuate the HD650's strengths while adding some forward energy and dynamics. I've preferred them to the Lorenz Stuttgart, Bugle Boys, RCA's and Cryoset 6N23P for the HD650 in all iterations of my setup.




You have been saying this forever good thing I rarely check the board I would have to see you say it more... Surely not my experience and many others.. You ever going to like not say this anymore? Dear !!


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Lol. Sorry to have encroached on your domain. Let's all forget that people have individual preferences and there are wide variances in system configurations, let alone in the tubes themselves. I sometimes forget dissenting views are frowned upon here and everyone must toe the line like sheep.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hey scary thanks for your feedback on my ?s. My preference on orange globes vs Lorenz happens to be opposite of olor1n. It just comes down to preference. I'm sure they sound great on his gear to him, otherwise why write about it. We need some variety on a tube rolling thread.


----------



## olor1n

^ Thanks ddod. In fairness, I stated I preferred the Orange Globes in all iterations of my setup. That was before I replaced my dac with the Bifrost. I have yet to roll the Lorenz in this chain. My bias for the Amperex could very well shift to the Stuttgart.
   
  I usually favour a warm textured sound (yes, even at the expense of transparency), so I may have to look at some Mullards or other tubes regarded as warm with extra body and weight to counteract the Bifrost's polite signature. The Orange Globes get me there partway but I want slightly better cohesion and refinement.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Yeah one of my Lorenz prized PC88's


 

 Please stop calling PCC88 tubes PC88 tubes. You might confuse people because the PC88 exists as well, and it is a different animal.


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> Lol. Sorry to have encroached on your domain. Let's all forget that people have individual preferences and there are wide variances in system configurations, let alone in the tubes themselves. I sometimes forget dissenting views are frowned upon here and everyone must toe the line like sheep.




Dude I was just giving you a hard time hahah my dry sense of humour does not always show haha I know that you know everyone's preference is different i just had not given you any Scccchhhhiiiittt lately


----------



## MrScary

ohhh thats right sorry I forget at times... Lazy typing and thinking I will surely remember sorry about dat ôô


----------



## MrScary

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Hey scary thanks for your feedback on my ?s. My preference on orange globes vs Lorenz happens to be opposite of olor1n. It just comes down to preference. I'm sure they sound great on his gear to him, otherwise why write about it. We need some variety on a tube rolling thread.




haha yeah I surely have not been around much haha I have a dry sense of humor and like to joke a lot.. haha I completely understand everyone's signal chain is different audio frequencies are interpreted different .. haha Godspeed


----------



## MrScary

oskari said:


> Please stop calling PCC88 tubes PC88 tubes. You might confuse people because the PC88 exists as well, and it is a different animal.




Gotcha man my mistake its called just pure lazy typing I do it all the time apologies now I was up all night time to sleep ÖÖ


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> ^ Thanks ddod. In fairness, I stated I preferred the Orange Globes in all iterations of my setup. That was before I replaced my dac with the Bifrost. I have yet to roll the Lorenz in this chain. My bias for the Amperex could very well shift to the Stuttgart.
> 
> I usually favour a warm textured sound (yes, even at the expense of transparency), so I may have to look at some Mullards or other tubes regarded as warm with extra body and weight to counteract the Bifrost's polite signature. The Orange Globes get me there partway but I want slightly better cohesion and refinement.


 


   
  Ok that makes more sense to me now, if your priority is warmth then I guess the Lorenz wouldn't be your go to. The orange globes are the warmest pair I own, my main beef with them was lack of detail.  I think you might like the mullard, the ones I mentioned a few posts back are not as warm as the amperex however it is more detailed and refined, IMO


----------



## pseudohippy

Well I got the Lorenz and the Orange Globe and for whatever reason I cant put my finger on the Orange Globes have become a mainstay. Its possible my ears are broken or backwards IDK. I love them both though. Part of me uses the Orange Globe because they are more replaceable lol but Ive come to almost prefer them anyhow.


----------



## olor1n

^ Are your Orange Globes O getters? Mine are '75 A-frames. Joe's Tube Lore perfectly describes the difference I hear between these and the Bugle Boys. The A-frames are meant to be less noisy and they certainly exhibit less hum than the other tubes I have on hand. I wonder if the O getter Globes are closer to the Bugles in upper end ambience and transparency but with the same warmth and low end as the A-frames.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> ^ Are your Orange Globes O getters? Mine are '75 A-frames. Joe's Tube Lore perfectly describes the difference I hear between these and the Bugle Boys. The A-frames are meant to be less noisy and they certainly exhibit less hum than the other tubes I have on hand. I wonder if the O getter Globes are closer to the Bugles in upper end ambience and transparency but with the same warmth and low end as the A-frames.


 


 Not sure, do you have a pic of the A frame architecture? They look A framish to me but I have no clue. I listen and like or listen and don't like. Don't research or understand much about tubes. This is where I got them and what they look like.
  http://vintageaudiotubes.com/?p=1304


----------



## mrksgrn

Has anyone had any bad experiences with Schiit's stock 6BZ7? I've been burning these stock tubes for at least 200 hours already and periodically get crackling noises in either left/right channels. The volume of these crackles have diminished since the start, but are still somewhat annoying when they happen, especially at lower volumes.
   
  Have anyone else experienced this? Are they because the Schiit tubes are of low quality? Will higher quality tubes solve any crackling?


----------



## mmayer167

Well, the Schiit 6bz7 are NOS so it can happen. My first pair rustled like leaves right away and they just sent me a new pair. Your pins could just be dirty too.
   
  -M


----------



## adydula

Funny, tubes on the Schiit site state they will last typically 5.000 hours.
   
  Yes they can go anytime, but if treated well they can last thousands of hours. Been there done that.
   
  Alot depends on the circuitry and how hard they are driven, the biasing, turn on and off timings etc.
   
  Tube are a mechanical device. If you knock them around, drop them etc or hurt the mechanincal parts inside, like in a light bulb
  they wont take the beating lightly....
   
  These tubes were in hundreds of thousands of appliances and worked well for years....
   
  Dont muck with then when there still hot or really warm....let them cool down completley before removing etc...
   
  Over and Out...
   
  Alex
   
  Note: 6BZ7's I have are 100 hrs or so now...no problems.


----------



## mrksgrn

Thanks for the replies. I've very much a novice so this helps immensely. 
   
  I understand that the sonic effects of cables are highly contentious and rather minimal, at least, to non-believers. In comparison, would a good pair of tubes make a significant, very very discernable, and less contestable difference in sound quality?
   
  As well, could anyone comment on the Matsush*ta E88CC 6922 and how they sound with the LCD-2r2s? I'm eyeing it as an upgrade to Schiit's 6BZ7


----------



## meltdown117

Hey guys, I'm a late comer to this thread, and I am too lazy to read all 176 pages' worth of texts lol (I gave up at 34).
  So far, what are the best recommended tubes for HD650? I listen to all genres btw (except heavy metal).
  Also, if possible, can you guys give me some links to where I can buy them?
  Or, even better, if anyone has a pair of matched tubes (that sounds good) they want to offer me, that also works as well 
  Thank you!


----------



## OldSkool

I'm sorta new here also. I know what you mean about the length of this thread, took me a few nights after work to finish it...but glad I did.
   
  IMO, I suggest starting with the GE 6BZ7 and 6N1P matched pairs from Schiit. Both will arrive tested and closely matched.
   
  Of those two, the 6BZ7 tubes sounded smoother to me and I just found a few made by Sylvania for $3 each on ebay. Hope to check them out this weekend as I know ebay can be hit or miss.
   
  As for better "high-end" tubes? Someone else will need to chime in, as I haven't worked my way up the ladder yet.


----------



## shamrock134

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> I'm sorta new here also. I know what you mean about the length of this thread, took me a few nights after work to finish it...but glad I did.
> 
> IMO, I suggest starting with the GE 6BZ7 and 6N1P matched pairs from Schiit. Both will arrive tested and closely matched.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Do you have any more impressions of the 6BZ7 vs 6N1P? Which do you prefer for your HD650?


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> Do you have any more impressions of the 6BZ7 vs 6N1P? Which do you prefer for your HD650?


 

 I really like 6N23P with the HD650 and HE-6, they're cheap tubes too. I'm not a fan of Schiit's 6N1P, they're too piercing in the highs for my taste.


----------



## shamrock134

That's why I was thinking they might help the treble on the LCD-2 r1.


----------



## meltdown117

Okay, since I can't really afford tube rolling (I'm broke lol), I'll go 'head and try the 6BZ7, and later, if I get some cash, the 23's.
  Thank you guys for contributing to this thread!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> Do you have any more impressions of the 6BZ7 vs 6N1P? Which do you prefer for your HD650?


 
  I like them both...but right now, I prefer the 6BZ7s. Like ZorgDK said, the highs are pretty extended on the 6N1Ps and some may find the treble to be harsh or piercing. With the 6BZ7s, I find that the bass is deep and tight, mids are smooth and highs are...I don't know...just right for my ears. The fact that we are talking about $3 to $10 tubes sounding this good is a bonus.
   
  Please keep in mind my HD650s have a silver cable and no foam. YMMV.


----------



## shamrock134

Thanks. I guess they are relatively inexpensive compared to some of the tubes mentioned here, so I think I'll grab a pair when I eventually get a Bifrost and see how they do with the LCD-2 r1. For me a bit more treble on the LCD-2 wouldn't be a bad thing.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> Thanks. I guess they are relatively inexpensive compared to some of the tubes mentioned here, so I think I'll grab a pair when I eventually get a Bifrost and see how they do with the LCD-2 r1. *For me a bit more treble on the LCD-2 wouldn't be a bad thing.*


 


  Smooth, extended treble is precisely what the Bifrost gives you. A bit too tilted in that direction with the rev.2 for my preference (which I counteract with warmer tubes), but it may be a perfect match for the rev.1.


----------



## perfect-pitch

Heya,
   
  i´m enjoying my Mats* Nationals right now. Very nice tubes indeed. Thanks to *mrrogers* for an excellent transaction. My Bifrost will arrive tomorrow, too. Can´t wait to check out the Lyr/ Bifrost combination...
   
  Cheers!
   
  perfect-pitch


----------



## mmayer167

^ your gonna love it, I know I did ! 
   
  -M


----------



## perfect-pitch

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> ^ your gonna love it, I know I did !
> 
> -M


 

  
  Sad to hear you sold your´s. But the Lyr stays on your desk i think?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Heya,
> 
> i´m enjoying my Mats* Nationals right now. Very nice tubes indeed. Thanks to *mrrogers* for an excellent transaction. My Bifrost will arrive tomorrow, too. Can´t wait to check out the Lyr/ Bifrost combination...
> 
> ...


 
  I think you will like it a lot! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Argo Duck

Bifrost is indeed a good match with the LCD2 rev 1. I can imagine its treble lift might be a little much for rev 2, as olor1n reports. 
   
  Re: 6N1P, reports of "piercing highs" probably match my experience - "hot" and "brash" were my words straight from the audiophile handbook! Again, with rev 1.
   
  Together they might be a bit much. But shamrock, as always YMMV. If you try them, let us know how they go...


----------



## Kremer930

I know that my opinion varies from the general consensus on the Schiit matched 6N1P tubes.  I run the Lyr/Bifrost and HE6 cans and really like the sound of the 6N1P's.  I use any of three tube sets rolled through my home rig.  The 6N1P, The amperex orange globes or the Lorenz PCC88.   I have another 20 different tube sets approx including the 6BZ7 made by sylvania, RCA and some others and I really dont think much of them in my rig.  It is either a case of different sound signature preferences or rig components....
   
  If they are a cheap tube then jump in and give them a go.  When a lot of the tubes cost less than $20 each then why not have some fun?  Who knows what you may uncover.


----------



## ckc527

Hi,
   
  I'm going to check out a local vintage radio repair shop after work. The owner said he's got many vintage tubes, new and old. What should I be looking for? I wrote down all the model numbers that will work for our Lyr but I have no idea what is best. From what I've been reading over the last few days on this thread, it seems the vintage 1950s - 1960s are best? How about origin? Are the ones from Europe better vs. American made?
   
  Thanks,
  ckc


----------



## mrksgrn

Are you using the LCD-2s? Can you comment on the sound using the Matsu?
  
  Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Heya,
> 
> i´m enjoying my Mats* Nationals right now. Very nice tubes indeed. Thanks to *mrrogers* for an excellent transaction. My Bifrost will arrive tomorrow, too. Can´t wait to check out the Lyr/ Bifrost combination...
> 
> ...


----------



## Argo Duck

Big +1
   
  Despite my view of the 6N1P stated above, the tubes I favor - Matsu 6922 - were not big in consensus terms at the time I bought them. It was a passing comment by MacedonianHero buried way back in the pages here that made me think I would like them. And I did.
   
  [Edit: accidentally submited before adding this...] We all vary too much to be pedantic or narrow-minded about what works. In other words, take notice of the group wisdom - but not too much notice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> *I know that my opinion varies from the general consensus on the Schiit matched 6N1P tubes*.  I run the Lyr/Bifrost and HE6 cans and really like the sound of the 6N1P's.  I use any of three tube sets rolled through my home rig.  The 6N1P, The amperex orange globes or the Lorenz PCC88.   I have another 20 different tube sets approx including the 6BZ7 made by sylvania, RCA and some others and I really dont think much of them in my rig.  It is either a case of different sound signature preferences or rig components....
> 
> *If they are a cheap tube then jump in and give them a go*.  When a lot of the tubes cost less than $20 each then why not have some fun?  Who knows what you may uncover.


----------



## Argo Duck

Just jumping in ahead of perfect-pitch, there was some comment on these (Matsu 6922) through December & maybe November IIRC. Might be worth trying a 'search this thread' or google 'head-fi Matsu 6922' might work too.
   
  They are my favorite combination to date with my *rev 1s*, but it's been 2-3 months since I last used them in the Lyr TBH. (Was distracted first by a comparative review in which I rolled back to 6BZ7, and since by work and a new amp).
   
  I found their sound rich in texture and detail in the bass and lower-mids. This was not at the expense of upper extension - they did not sound unbalanced or muddy. I can't comment on sound stage or imaging as this is not something I particularly listen for with headphones. I found them a large advance over the GE 6BZ7, my favorite of the stock options. I also enjoyed their sound over some quite nice (clear, neutral) Siemens 6DJ8 tubes.
   
  They made me appreciate that the Lyr responds considerably to tube-rolling.
  
  Quote: 





mrksgrn said:


> Are you using the LCD-2s? Can you comment on the sound using the Matsu?


----------



## sridhar3

mwilson has a number of amazing tubes posted to the FS forums.  There's a matched pair and a matched quad of S&H CCa, among others.


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm going to check out a local vintage radio repair shop after work. The owner said he's got many vintage tubes, new and old. What should I be looking for? I wrote down all the model numbers that will work for our Lyr but I have no idea what is best. From what I've been reading over the last few days on this thread, it seems the vintage 1950s - 1960s are best? How about origin? Are the ones from Europe better vs. American made?
> 
> ...


 

 Turns out this shop had a room full of tubes but no matched set I can use on the Lyr. I was bummed out leaving the place. On the phone he thought I could use PC88, which he had plenty in NOS.
   
  Went ahead and ordered a set of the Matsu/National E88CC from Tubemonger last night. Looking forward to how this will sound with my Bifrost > Lyr > HD-600 setup. 
   
  Searching through this long thread, I don't see too many HD-600 pairing w/ the Lyr. Is this not a good match? If you have this can, please chime in on your tube rolling experience. Would love to hear some feedback on this combo.
   
  Thanks,
  ckc


----------



## perfect-pitch

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Turns out this shop had a room full of tubes but no matched set I can use on the Lyr. I was bummed out leaving the place. On the phone he thought I could use PC88, which he had plenty in NOS.
> 
> Went ahead and ordered a set of the Matsu/National E88CC from Tubemonger last night. Looking forward to how this will sound with my Bifrost > Lyr > HD-600 setup.
> 
> ...


 



 Well, sometimes i use my HD 600 in combination with my Lyr. Last night i listenend with the HD 600 (cardas cabled) to my Lyr with the Matsushi* ... Very nice sound. I think, that all high impedance headphone are a good combination with the Lyr.
   
  Today i rolled the Tungsram E88CC into the Lyr . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I really love them....


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Well, sometimes i use my HD 600 in combination with my Lyr. Last night i listenend with the HD 600 (cardas cabled) to my Lyr with the Matsushi* ... Very nice sound. I think, that all high impedance headphone are a good combination with the Lyr.
> 
> Today i rolled the Tungsram E88CC into the Lyr .
> 
> ...


 


  Using the HD-600, can you describe the difference between the Matsu vs. Tungsram E88CC?
   
  Thanks,
  ckc


----------



## perfect-pitch

Well, i've listened to the Matsush* only for a few hours. The Tungsram are one of my favoirite ones so far. But the soundstage of the Mats. is imho better/ bigger than the soundstage of the Tungs. But the Tungs have a little bit more bass.
  Difficult to say one tube is better than the other. Both are great on their own way....
   
   
   
  Keep on rollin'


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Well, i've listened to the Matsush* only for a few hours. The Tungsram are one of my favoirite ones so far. But the soundstage of the Mats. is imho better/ bigger than the soundstage of the Tungs. But the Tungs have a little bit more bass.
> Difficult to say one tube is better than the other. Both are great on their own way....
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for your feedback.
   
  ckc


----------



## ckc527

Which tubes for the Lyr are consider the warmest?
   
  Thanks,
  ckc


----------



## MrScary

ckc527 said:


> Turns out this shop had a room full of tubes but no matched set I can use on the Lyr. I was bummed out leaving the place. On the phone he thought I could use PC88, which he had plenty in NOS.
> 
> Went ahead and ordered a set of the Matsu/National E88CC from Tubemonger last night. Looking forward to how this will sound with my Bifrost > Lyr > HD-600 setup.
> 
> ...




I do not have the HD-600's but I did test the Matus's with my HD-650's they sounded great much better than my LCD-2's that was quite awhile ago I still have my HD-650's I should put them on for a week or so and do a check of my current tube inventory and how they sound.


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I do not have the HD-600's but I did test the Matus's with my HD-650's they sounded great much better than my LCD-2's that was quite awhile ago I still have my HD-650's I should put them on for a week or so and do a check of my current tube inventory and how they sound.


 


  Cool, it would be nice to get your feedback on which tubes you prefer on the Senn.
   
  Thanks,
  ckc


----------



## koonhua90

I am moving on to Stax now, and am selling my LCD-3 and Lyr amp on the for-sale forum. Check it out if you are interested, links here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/594730/lcd-3-for-sale-or-trade-for-stax-007-mk-i
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/594638/fs-schiit-audio-lyr-amp-110-v
   
  Apart from that, I am also selling all my tubes on Ebay because I have no need for them, and I need the money to fund the purchase of Stax 007/009, check it out here:
   
http://www.ebay.com/sch/kh90123/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686
   
  A long time ago I promised to write some sort of short impressions about the sonic qualities of different tubes, and now before I sell all the tubes on Ebay, let me post them here, so some of you might find useful. The descriptions are fairly short, and more like notes I made when I was listening. And also I was listening to them using my LCD-3, with Lyr amp and DACmini as the source. 
   
  The notes are not very tidy. Some of them are written down at different period of time, towards the end my notes were shorter, as I spent more time listening than comparing. I apologize for that. Some pictures of my tubes and headphones. The last pair of tubes I bought is the CCa, which is a gem. I could not compare tubes that I got later to the Siemens E188CC and Mullard CV2493, because one side died due to mishandling, for both pairs. Never remove your tube unless the tubes have cooled down!
   

   
   
  Amperex USN-CEP 6922 
  - Very forward midrange.
  - Feels like sitting at front row.
  - Bass is very palpable, deep, and punchy, has the visceral quality to it.
  - Guitar slightly soft
  - Very lively.
  - Intimate, focused listening.
  - / \ shape soundstage. Reasonably wide.
  - Singer in front of the band.
  - Some overlapping of instrument sounds.
  - Not so much of a sparkly treble.
   
  Valvo E88CC
  - Less palpable bass (don't feel the bass moving the air that much), very good definition still.
  - Delicate midrange.
  - Less warmth.
  - More sense of space and depth.
  - More sparkle than Amperex 6922.
  - Singer further away from you.
  - Vocal no longer takes precedence over the music.
  - Guitar twang sounds stronger.
   
  Siemens E188CC
  - More palpable than the Valvo E88CC less than Amperex
  - Sense of depth and height is better
  - Very clean, clear sound (not as forward as the Valvo/Amperex)
  - Excellent separation
  - Resolution slightly better than the Valvo E88CC
  - Timbre is more accurate than the above 2.
  - Singer is slightly further back than Amperex 6922, but she has her own defined space.
  - It calls for your attention.
  - Sibilance that is there in the songs can be heard well, not masked.
  - Perhaps slightly soft vocals, but amazing details and resolution.
  - Sparkly treble, sizzle is there, possibly the best 'real-ness'
  - Not as smooth sounding as the warmer Amperexes
   
  Mullard CV2493
  - Palpable bass with texture
  - More forward vocals than Siemens E188CC
  - As delicate sounding as the Siemens
  - Very good depth and height
  - For me personally, just the right 'intimate-ness'.
  - Incredibly smooth, calls attention to each delicate sound of the instruments.
  - As good separation and sense of space as the Siemens.
  - Natural sounding guitar.
  - Incredibly accurate timbre.
  - Less sparkle than the Siemens E188CC.
  - Sibilant still there, but less pronounced than the E188CC.
  - Some might consider this as rolled off at the lows and highs, but I think it's just right. Siemens E188CC can be considered as slightly bright, and Amperex 6922 can be considered as slightly warm, this is in the middle of the road.
   
  Amperex USN CEP 7308
  - More forward than Mullard CV2493
  - Not as warm as the Amperex 6922
  - Palpable bass.
  - Amperex house sound is there, but has some of the good qualities as the Siemens/Telefunken/Valvo tubes.
  - Good treble.
  - Fairly natural guitar sound.
  - Not as bright as the Siemens E188CC.
   
  Telefunken E88CC
  - About the same sound as Siemens E188CC.
  - One of my Siemens E188CC died due to my mishandling, so I could not compare them.
  - Perhaps slightly brighter than Siemens E188CC, two notches brighter and I would consider this as edgy.
  - Like all the German tubes, have the 3D soundstage, clean, clear sound.
  - I prefer CCa/ 7308 than this.
   
  Valvo Cca
  - As good as the Amperex, but with slightly better definition and slightly more air in the highs. Definitely not as bright as the Siemens though, but inherits all the good traits of German tubes, with a hint of warmth and smoothness that is in the Amperexes. 
  - One of the best pair of tubes I have heard, 'nuf said.
   
  Some people might say that the likes of Amperex 6922 and Valvo E88CC to be full sounding, and Siemens thin sounding.
   
  Personally I lean towards palpable yet not overwhelming bass; natural, smooth, emotional, detailed midrange, with the ability to portray the grain of female voices, and also the raw power in them; slightly sparkly treble with good sense depth and height. Accurate timbre is a must.
   
  In terms of preference,  I would say Valco CCa > Siemens E188CC= Amperex 7308 > Mullard CV2493 > Telefunken E88CC > the rest. Preferences also changes with the music I play. But in terms of listening time, I would say I used the CCa and the 7308 the most (since one tube of the CV2493 and Siemens E188CC died).
   
  My impressions are surprisingly, very similar to the impressions by Brent Jessing: 
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
   
  Regards.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Nice write up, I have a few pairs in your list and agree with your findings
  The lcd3 your selling is beautiful,that first picture with the lcd3/tubes has been the background to my phone for about three months now


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Nice write up, I have a few pairs in your list and agree with your findings
> The lcd3 your selling is beautiful,that first picture with the lcd3/tubes has been the background to my phone for about three months now


 


  Hehe, thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I used to shoot for the yearbook for our college, but after that my schoolwork became heavier and I had to put more commitment into it so I quit shooting for them.
   
  The main reason I am selling the LCD-3 is mainly because of comfort problems, as good as the LCD-3 sounds, I can't justify keep both headphones.
   
  Some might not agree with my impressions, but those are strictly what I heard, and the comparisons were not all done in the same day. After I broke my tubes because of hot-swapping, I wasn't inclined to break either the 7308 or the CCa tubes, so most of the time I just picked one and listened to music instead of listening to tubes.


----------



## MrScary

koonhua90 said:


> I am moving on to Stax now, and am selling my LCD-3 and Lyr amp on the for-sale forum. Check it out if you are interested, links here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/594730/lcd-3-for-sale-or-trade-for-stax-007-mk-i
> 
> ...




Question: So I see your tube's for sale on Ebay are these tube's you are selling on Ebay tube's that you never used? I'm a bit confused as they say NOS.

Thanks


----------



## koonhua90

Most tubes that I bought are listed as NOS, even though they are not new per say. Those that I listed NOS are very lightly used, because on total I have less than 100 hours on my LCD-3. So those they are listed as NOS has less than 20 hours on them. 
   
  Out of the tubes, I got the Amperex 6922 new. The 7308 is unused, judging from the condition of the box. I was lucky and I got it for good price. The Valvo CCa seems unused too.
   
http://www.audiotubes.com/nos.htm


----------



## ckc527

I'm a little bit confused on how the Triode Flippers from Tubemonger can actually help extend the life of tubes. Can someone help me understand this?
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/TRIODE_FLIPPER_with_Vibration_Reduction_Base_p/triodeflipper.htm
   
_" Why use this adapter? In a perfect world, twin triodes for small signal tubes should measure exactly the same and deplete at exactly the same rate in various applications. In real world, that is almost never the case. If you were to test a large sample of used tubes, you will find 10-50% or even more variation between triodes. Often one triode can test NOS and other below minimum.

 This variation is due to the fact that in most cases, 2 triodes may not test exactly the same when new, and may deplete at different rates in various applications. Often 2 triodes are employed for different functions e.g. in Guitar amps.

You can extract more usable life from twin triodes by using this base for part of the lifespan. "_
   
  [size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]Thanks,[/size][/size][/size]
  [size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]ckc[/size][/size][/size]


----------



## davidgotsa

Hey guys,
   
  I'm new to all this and I ordered my first real amp the other day, the Schiit Lyr. 
   
  According to some of your posts, the tubes change the sound quite a lot. I'm a little bit skeptical since I've never tried one but we'll see. 
   
  There are so many pages and I've read through a lot of them but never saw one talking about which ones were the brightest ones? 
   
  I have the Sennheiser HD650 and I was wondering if any of you guys could recommend some bright tubes for it. Maybe there is no such thing... I don't know. 
   
  I got the stock E88CC as well as the 6N1P's for 20 bucks for now.


----------



## koonhua90

^ Read here: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
   
  You will want German made tubes, such as Siemens, Telefunkens, Valvo, Lorenz, etc.


----------



## davidgotsa

Thanks a lot, will do. 
  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> ^ Read here: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> 
> You will want German made tubes, such as Siemens, Telefunkens, Valvo, Lorenz, etc.


----------



## songmic

*For sale: Lorenz PCC88 3-mica tubes (perfectly matched pair)*
   

   
  Hey guys, I'm releasing a pair of Lorenz PCC88 3-mica tubes for sale. They are the genuine ones made in Stuttgart, West Germany, NOT the SEL rebranded in Eastern Europe. If you're one of those who permanently missed them while they were a rage several months ago, now's the chance! For those of you who are interested, please go to the following link. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595480/lorenz-stuttgart-pcc88-3-mica-tubes#post_8138932


----------



## wheelman

^ PM sent
   
  OK, my 1st post here was going to read something like "I just received my lyr, and have a pair of LCD-2's on order, help me with tubes", but I just saw the previous post, and thought I would jump at it because of the reviews and availability.
   
  I have spent the last few days reading through this whole thread, and have made myself a few notes about some of the key tube that people have tried.  This is my first tube product, so I am interested in hearing some of the differences that tube rolling can involve, and have nothing to compare too.  I ordered my lyr with the 6N1P and 6BZ7 tubes.  Can you recommend a couple tubes (that won't break the bank) that will give me different sounds to listen to?  - I probably need to hear some differences before I know what I am looking for.


----------



## Misterrogers

It's been said a couple of times but bears repeating; there really is no way to dial in your preferences without dipping your toe in the water. There happens to be a number of good tubes in classified right now. Listen to what your Lyr ships with for awhile, lock into what you like about them, what you don't. From there - we can help direct. Enjoy the journey!
  
  Quote: 





wheelman said:


> ^ PM sent
> 
> OK, my 1st post here was going to read something like "I just received my lyr, and have a pair of LCD-2's on order, help me with tubes", but I just saw the previous post, and thought I would jump at it because of the reviews and availability.
> 
> I have spent the last few days reading through this whole thread, and have made myself a few notes about some of the key tube that people have tried.  This is my first tube product, so I am interested in hearing some of the differences that tube rolling can involve, and have nothing to compare too.  I ordered my lyr with the 6N1P and 6BZ7 tubes.  Can you recommend a couple tubes (that won't break the bank) that will give me different sounds to listen to?  - I probably need to hear some differences before I know what I am looking for.


----------



## MrScary

songmic said:


> *For sale: Lorenz PCC88 3-mica tubes (perfectly matched pair)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Make sense I won't bother reposting I posted on your sale of the Lorenz. I will say this much you are the type of people that give a forum a bad name,,, Want profit go to freaking Ebay...


----------



## MrScary

koonhua90 said:


> Most tubes that I bought are listed as NOS, even though they are not new per say. Those that I listed NOS are very lightly used, because on total I have less than 100 hours on my LCD-3. So those they are listed as NOS has less than 20 hours on them.
> 
> Out of the tubes, I got the Amperex 6922 new. The 7308 is unused, judging from the condition of the box. I was lucky and I got it for good price. The Valvo CCa seems unused too.
> 
> http://www.audiotubes.com/nos.htm




Hate to have to be picky but NOS mean's NOS period if they are used at all they are not NOS... Please use NOS on the tubes you have that appropriately fit the term NOS...


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Hate to have to be picky but NOS mean's NOS period if they are used at all they are not NOS... Please use NOS on the tubes you have that appropriately fit the term NOS...


 

 All arguments are moot now because the tubes are sold. If you think NOS tubes are really unused, think again. Most so called NOS have been lying around in equipment and etc. I am not boutique seller, this is Ebay we are talking about.
   
  It has been fun while it lasted, tube rolling and whatnot, but in the end, what I had just lacked the refinement, the detail and the resolution that I want. Ruling the heavy planars out, it will be easier to make choices when purchasing headphones and amps in the future.
   
  I'm out of this thread, adios!


----------



## Kremer930

New Old Stock should be exactly that.  If not, then sellers should use a different description.  You dont expect to be treated honestly from all ebay sellers but here on Headfi I would expect and hope that we are a closer and more honest bunch of like minded people.


----------



## MrScary

koonhua90 said:


> All arguments are moot now because the tubes are sold. If you think NOS tubes are really unused, think again. Most so called NOS have been lying around in equipment and etc. I am not boutique seller, this is Ebay we are talking about.
> 
> It has been fun while it lasted, tube rolling and whatnot, but in the end, what I had just lacked the refinement, the detail and the resolution that I want. Ruling the heavy planars out, it will be easier to make choices when purchasing headphones and amps in the future.
> 
> I'm out of this thread, adios!




Good glad to see you go... Representing tubes as NOS is simple they should be NOS as Kremer said and I said before. this is Headfi here dude!!! If you want to rip people of do it on Ebay and don't mention it. I would hope that you come to your senses.
if you choose to debate I will rip your poor attempt at logic apart.. I myself have sold many many tubes both on Ebay and here to members of Head-fi. I surely would not brag about being a total idiot and say "Its Ebay" umm no this is not Ebay understand what page you are on. 
if you have that much intellect which I doubt.

Go now be on your way!
Before we start with Basic Logic 101 which you would fail!


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> New Old Stock should be exactly that.  If not, then sellers should use a different description.  You dont expect to be treated honestly from all ebay sellers but here on Headfi I would expect and hope that we are a closer and more honest bunch of like minded people.


 

 Yes, Ebay is a real minefield.
   
  I once picked up a pair of tubes advertised as "NOS" from a highly rated tube ebay seller with over 1 thousand positive ratings.
   
  The tubes turned out to be heavily used. I can tell because I own a digital tube tester with readings accurate to 0.1 decimal places.
   
  I opened a Paypal case against the tube seller and got a major refund off the cost of the tube. And yes, the moment I contacted him, he knew that the game was over and confessed that they were not really "NOS".
   
  One should never have to pay the same cost for an old used item as compared with a completely new item.
   
  Anyone who advertises used tubes as being NOS are just plain dishonest.


----------



## SeaHawk

I have to say I did win one of koonhua90's pricier tube auctions and went in with full knowledge of this and his for sale threads.  If nothing else, I see what would otherwise be NOS tubes having a minimum number of hours for burn-in and assurance that they won't be quick to fail (as NOS tubes can tend to be a grab-bag of it may just go up when you plug it in since most testers don't put a full load or even warm them up).
   
  I do not feel slighted in the least, and while that covers a good percentage of the money that changed hands, I'm not really defending him more than just calling it like I see it.
   
  Can you say that any tube that has been tested is still NOS?
   
  On eBay there seems to be 1000 different vendors that often offer tubes, each with their own type of tester.  The vast majority of them will simply call it NOS if the tube tests within a high range.  We know the vast majority of these testers are fickle at best and the results don't necessarily mean what the person testing it thinks it means.  Those tubes could have been used from 20 minutes to 1000 hours without significantly altering the number that popped up (some testers wouldn't see a change at all, or at least a number that would still fall within the vendor's own "NOS" range).
   
  Anyone that has browsed eBay for tubes over any significant length of time will realize that the term NOS is tossed around like a throw pillow, and that descriptions can be very misleading to the point the onus is on the buyer to research the tube to ensure it is what they think it is.  I can't count how many auctions will throw up every almost-compatible tube type for other that what it really is (e.g. "*Matched Pair Amperex ECC88 / 6DJ8 HOLLAND = E88CC 6922 7308 E188CC*" - when I'm searching for E188CC).  To me, that is much more frustrating as I'm searching for a particular tube type before playing the "is it really NOS" game.
   
  On eBay anyone that plays "fair" will lose every time - at least give the guy credit for posting a heads-up notice in this thread so that fellow Head-Fi'ers were *aware* of those auctions, and stating that the times on the tubes total come in under 200 hours (and who can expect him to keep track of each pair as at the time he intended to keep his rig).  This might not excuse his actions in your eyes, but there is mitigation since you would have been (and myself) completely unaware had he not posted at all about the tubes.
   
  Take it for what you will, as it is what it is.
  eBay... No where will you find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> ......
> 
> Can you say that any tube that has been tested is still NOS?
> 
> .......


 

 Yes. That is the accepted *social* *convention*.
  NOS simply means that the tubes have not been used.
  There is no room for debate here.
   
  The point that Kremer930 and MrScary were trying to make was precisely that.
  Tubes advertised as NOS should adhere to the social convention.
   
  Social convention also suggests that the burn-in before testing does not count as used.
  Power tubes need at least a 24 hr burn-in before they can stabilize and be tested and matched.
  This is carried out by reliable sellers for e.g. such as Kevin Deal from upscale audio.
  From my own personal experience with preamp tubes, I have also encountered tubes which require at least 5 hrs of burn-in before reliable testing can be done.
   
  As for your point about giving other Ebay sellers a heads-up here, I don't see how that exonerates the seller.
  There are other non-headfi Ebay buyers out there who could have bid for those tubes because of the "NOS" moniker.


----------



## tomb

What some of you are skirting around is "pulled" tubes.  Yes - they are used, but in many cases, are as good as NOS, for all practical purposes.  True, it's a buyer-beware situation, but there's a real issue as to whether a truly NOS tube that's been sitting on a shelf or in a box perhaps corroding for 40-50 years is in as good condition as a tube that was at least plugged in and had power applied to it for a few years.  In very few cases are the tubes we use in headphone amps under the same conditions as those for which they were originally designed.  That could be better or worse, depending on the tube type.
   
  More to the point - IMHO, ebay is the absolute worst place to buy tubes.  There is never a good buy on any tubes unless they are being sold in sufficient quantity (100 or more?).  Once you add the shipping cost, they seem to be _always_ more expensive than purchasing from a reputable dealer such as Tube Depot, The Tube Store, Antique Electronic Supply, Radio Electric Supply, Orlando Tubes, Vacuum Tubes Inc., etc., etc.


----------



## Kremer930

What part of "New" do people not understand?
   
  Any tube which has been plugged in and used in some kind of machine, other than for test only purposes, is no longer New.
   
  It is Fraud to apply that description when you know that it is not true.  Some people will use the term NOS out of greed to maximise their selling price but let's not defend those actions.
   
  I have bought tubes before from MrScary and MrRogers and I would comfortably vouch for their honesty and extreme levels of courtesy and service.  We should aim to hold Head-fi to these standards


----------



## tomb

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> What part of "New" do people not understand?
> </snip>


 

 Maybe because "New" is in a different context when everything is 40-50 years "Old?"  Why do you think the NOS acronym came about?  It can mean a number of things in the real market.  There's no regulatory agency or standards committee that governs and tests the suitability of the "NOS" description.


----------



## Kremer930

New Old Stock means new and unused but not of a current or recent manufacturing vintage.  Any other interpretation is outside of that commonly understood.  If you mean a slightly different interpretation then why not use it or add an addendum to the NOS moniker.
   
  I have given my 5 cents worth.  The general populace know what they expect when buying NOS.


----------



## tomb

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> New Old Stock means new and unused but not of a current or recent manufacturing vintage.  Any other interpretation is outside of that commonly understood.  If you mean a slightly different interpretation then why not use it or add an addendum to the NOS moniker.
> 
> I have given my 5 cents worth.  The general populace know what they expect when buying NOS.


 
  Sorry - I didn't mean to offend sensibilities here, just trying to give you a dose of reality.
   
*There's no way of reliably telling NOS tubes from "pulled" tubes* .. and I mean that, seriously.  I purchase and re-sell _thousands_ of tubes from reputable distributors and have tested that many, too. They either test OK or they don't.  There are some that may have what appears to be used getter flashes, but you cannot really tell that from a manufacturing variance.  Even if the pins are bent, you can't be certain that they weren't simply tested at one point and jerked out of the socket.  And don't even mention cosmetics.  You can get pulled tube or un-used OEM tubes in inboxed egg crates before the seller's label was even painted on the glass - you still can't tell.  As for those sitting on the shelves that have been branded and boxed, I've seen them with pins so corroded it almost takes a chisel to cut the green mushrooms off.  That doesn't mean that they weren't "New" and "Unused."
   
  It's a marketable distinction that many vendors use to their advantage.  It's to your disadvantage to exclude others that don't do that, that's all.


----------



## SeaHawk

We're wandering way off topic and partially my fault for fueling the fire..  My apologies and let's hear about some more tubes someone stuck into their Lyr!


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> *snip*
> eBay... No where will you find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.


 

 Yes, Ebay is worse than Mos Eisley spaceport. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
   
  I'm done with Ebay too, my first purchase on Ebay was a success, I bought some Brimars for 50$ which were sold as used and matched. They looked brand new and were perfectly volume matched. Two times I have bough GE 6BZ7, both were advertised as NOS, but only one pair looked new, the other looked old and worn, both pairs have slight volume imbalance. Oh, well, the last set were only 3$ pr. tube.


----------



## Misterrogers

+2 This is the reality of the tube market with very, very old tubes.
  
  Quote: 





tomb said:


> Sorry - I didn't mean to offend sensibilities here, just trying to give you a dose of reality.
> 
> *There's no way of reliably telling NOS tubes from "pulled" tubes* .. and I mean that, seriously.  I purchase and re-sell _thousands_ of tubes from reputable distributors and have tested that many, too. They either test OK or they don't.  There are some that may have what appears to be used getter flashes, but you cannot really tell that from a manufacturing variance.  Even if the pins are bent, you can't be certain that they weren't simply tested at one point and jerked out of the socket.  And don't even mention cosmetics.  You can get pulled tube or un-used OEM tubes in inboxed egg crates before the seller's label was even painted on the glass - you still can't tell.  As for those sitting on the shelves that have been branded and boxed, I've seen them with pins so corroded it almost takes a chisel to cut the green mushrooms off.  That doesn't mean that they weren't "New" and "Unused."
> 
> It's a marketable distinction that many vendors use to their advantage.  It's to your disadvantage to exclude others that don't do that, that's all.


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Good glad to see you go... Representing tubes as NOS is simple they should be NOS as Kremer said and I said before. this is Headfi here dude!!! If you want to rip people of do it on Ebay and don't mention it. I would hope that you come to your senses.
> if you choose to debate I will rip your poor attempt at logic apart.. I myself have sold many many tubes both on Ebay and here to members of Head-fi. I surely would not brag about being a total idiot and say "Its Ebay" umm no this is not Ebay understand what page you are on.
> if you have that much intellect which I doubt.
> Go now be on your way!
> Before we start with Basic Logic 101 which you would fail!


 

 Ok this is getting into personal attack. Just because we have different views on NOS doesn't give you the right to attack others.
   
  If you want to continue this, you can PM me. No point having pointless post here to derail this thread.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


koonhua90 said:


> Ok this is getting into personal attack. Just because we have different views on NOS doesn't give you the right to attack others.


 

 I'd tend to agree.  A post in poor taste at best, and libel at worst.


----------



## Han Bao Quan

Can we focus on the Lyr and tubes now please?


----------



## SeaHawk

Just stuck in some IEC 6DJ8/ECC88's and can't believe the difference in clarity over the Russian 6N1P-EV's, but unfortunately getting a nice 60Hz hum from only one of the tubes...  Is this something that might go away after a few dozen hours of burn-in?
   
  I'm certain that the hum would be substantially less with headphones with less sensitivity than these Grado RS2i's (about any other headphone out there, really).  Really don't want to ditch these tubes!


----------



## SeaHawk

Good news!  After a few hours that hum has faded to be inaudible.  We'll see if it stays that way after a few heat cycles.
   
  Now waiting on some USN-CEP Amperex 7308's from a beloved forum member to try next


----------



## TWIFOSP

Does anyone have a summary post of this thread so far?  I just bought a lyr and 178 pages is a lot to go through!


----------



## mikenike

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> Does anyone have a summary post of this thread so far?  I just bought a lyr and 178 pages is a lot to go through!


 


http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/1245#post_7586704
   
  This post occurs on page 84, by Mr. Scary.


----------



## TWIFOSP

Thanks!


----------



## olor1n

My summary of the thread:
   
  Do not take one person's findings as gospel. With the variety of components, personal preferences, and variances within tube types themselves, it would be a shame to limit yourself to a narrow view. Only consensus in this thread is that the Lyr responds very well to tube rolling and that the previously stock JJ's did not do the Lyr justice.


----------



## TWIFOSP

It's audio man, I learned along time ago not to pay much attention to anything but descriptions.  
   
  I just want to see xyz tube has abc characteristics.
   
  I only have about an hour on each, but my napkin notes are:
   
Amperex 6DJ8 Orange:  Lots of impact and bass, good electronica bassline tubes
   
Valvo E88CC: rolled off bass, very revealing, pretty good imaging/soundstage for tubes, goosebumps on pachebel, only lacking in impact bass resolving.
   
  My last tube amp was a wooaudio1, been solid state ever since.  I'm liking my visit down tube road again.

  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> My summary of the thread:
> 
> Do not take one person's findings as gospel. With the variety of components, personal preferences, and variances within tube types themselves, it would be a shame to limit yourself to a narrow view. Only consensus in this thread is that the Lyr responds very well to tube rolling and that the previously stock JJ's did not do the Lyr justice.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> My summary of the thread:
> 
> Do not take one person's findings as gospel. With the variety of components, personal preferences, and variances within tube types themselves, it would be a shame to limit yourself to a narrow view. Only consensus in this thread is that the Lyr responds very well to tube rolling and that the previously stock JJ's did not do the Lyr justice.


 
  +1 on what he said! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Uchiya

I am treble sensitive and I found the S&H 73/74 E88cc's as someone put it, cold and sterile, a great match for the 650's but horrible for any other headphone with treble tilt.  So good that I find myself craving what they could do for the LCD-2's.  However, it made He-500's harsh at times.  My preferred sound signature is that of the PB-2 with Hi-Flight's topkit.  If that's a tube sound,  I want more of it.  Shame is that it's in a portable setup and doesn't carry the air, bass, or dynamic authority of the Lyr.  Anyone here who's tried the Ibasso PB-2 with Ron's topkit had any experience rolling tubes in the Lyr?


----------



## TWIFOSP

I'm slowly making my way through this thread and just got to the week/month where everyone was talking about the Lorenz tubes.  I've been looking around for these, is it is safe to say they are now impossible to find?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

twifosp said:


> I'm slowly making my way through this thread and just got to the week/month where everyone was talking about the Lorenz tubes.  I've been looking around for these, is it is safe to say they are now impossible to find?




Outside of people selling theirs on the for sale forum here, they are very difficult to come by. One member found a pair on eBay but that's the only pair I know of that's been found.


----------



## TWIFOSP

Thats what I thought.  I'll keep an eye out on the for sale forum.  Or if anyone here wants to part with a pair.... 
  Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Outside of people selling theirs on the for sale forum here, they are very difficult to come by. One member found a pair on eBay but that's the only pair I know of that's been found.


----------



## SeaHawk

'64 USN-CEP Amperex 7308's...  Compared to the '70 Mullard GB 6DJ8's, not nearly as bright, mids are warmer, a bit laid back, but there's a spacious feeling about the soundstage that brings more life to the music.  (I feel like I'm listening to music rather than just hearing sound, and I like it!).  There's more detail to the music, especially over the grainy (but decent sounding, esp for the price!) Voshkod 6N1P-EV's.
   
  If the CCa's are even more "3d sounding", it makes me wonder if that's really true to the source or at what point are the tubes injecting their own "thing" into the stream?  Sort of what SRS tries to do (and fails, imo)..
   
  Also - any good authority on tube date codes?  I find so much conflicting information with Google searches, it gets frustrating quickly.  Perhaps we need a tube code thread?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

seahawk said:


> '64 USN-CEP Amperex 7308's...  Compared to the '70 Mullard GB 6DJ8's, not nearly as bright, mids are warmer, a bit laid back, but there's a spacious feeling about the soundstage that brings more life to the music.  (I feel like I'm listening to music rather than just hearing sound, and I like it!).  There's more detail to the music, especially over the grainy (but decent sounding, esp for the price!) Voshkod 6N1P-EV's.
> 
> If the CCa's are even more "3d sounding", it makes me wonder if that's really true to the source or at what point are the tubes injecting their own "thing" into the stream?  Sort of what SRS tries to do (and fails, imo)..
> 
> Also - any good authority on tube date codes?  I find so much conflicting information with Google searches, it gets frustrating quickly.  Perhaps we need a tube code thread?




I think the cca's definitely inject their own thing. I have some old jazz recordings in mono, that have a soundstage when played through my cca's. They sound like a mono source being played in a hall. The S&H have more of this effect than the valvo cca to my ears.

Yeah identifying tube date code via google is a pain in the butt. I'm with you there


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Yeah identifying tube date code via google is a pain in the butt. I'm with you there


 
  For tube date codes of the Philips variety (which basically owns Mullard, Amperex, Valvo, etc....)
   
  I suggest the following link for starters.
   
http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

lord soth said:


> For tube date codes of the Philips variety (which basically owns Mullard, Amperex, Valvo, etc....)
> 
> I suggest the following link for starters.
> 
> http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm




Thanks for the link,very helpful


----------



## Locknar

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I do not have the HD-600's but I did test the Matus's with my HD-650's they sounded great much better than my LCD-2's that was quite awhile ago I still have my HD-650's I should put them on for a week or so and do a check of my current tube inventory and how they sound.


 
   
  What's Happenin' MrScary,
   
  I was following this thread for awhile back when it got started but have been away for a bit. I always looked out for your posts as well this cat living in Micronesia (I forget the name). I noticed the post above a few days back and wanted to see if you got around to rolling anything else into the Lyr for the 650's. Also, I think I found the Matsu's on Tubemonger for $40 a piece. Is this a decent price for these? For me I think a $100-$120 is the absolute max I'd be willing to pay for a pair of tubes, so if there is anything else you can recommend for the HD650 I'd appreciate it (if you get a chance). Thanks man.


----------



## mikiphile

So..... Ive been wondering the forums for quite some time trying to answer this question I have. Unfortunately with no success. The more I was looking, the more confused I got.
   
  I have been looking for a desktop amp and a dac to pair with my K701. Now, after all the search Ive done, I decided to go for Schiit Valhalla + Bifrost. However, eventually, because of the thousands of posts I read saying that this combo is not good, I decided to give the Lyr a try, especially after having it recommended by Jason (from Schiit audio himself).
   
  Now, dont ask me why Im so persistant on Schiit. I have several good reasons for that. 
   
  The question I have now, is: is there a particular set of tubes which will make the Lyr slightly less bright with the K701. What results I expect:
   
  I have been listening to my K701 through a vintage SS stereo amp (Tandberg 3012) and so far, I am 4/5 pleased with the sound. To my taste, it lacks the lower body a little bit and the vocals could be ever so slightly more present. Otherwise its ok. I am somewhat pleased with the soundstage, but a better result would be a big bonus. I am not someone who insists on a warmer sound so much, but it could be a little bit more for my taste.
   
  Therefore, is there a tube which will improve the bass a little bit?
   
  Any help is welcome, I appreciate it.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Mikiphile I think my k701s work great with the Lyr, it pushes them nicely. I bought a pair of Mullards because back somewhere in this thread someone said if you hear the 701s with mullard tubes rolled you would pee yourself. Mind you I didn't have to rush to the bathroom due to listening to the combo, but they were right it's a good pairing. The Mullard is on the warmer side but I dig that with the 701, also they have some air on the high but it's not enough that makes the bright nature of the 701 unbearable. I have the mullard cv2493 but it's easier to find and cheaper to get the cv2492 (if I remember correctly the guy with the bladder problem was using this tube). Hope this helps,remember this is imo,ymmv and the like..


----------



## Eisenbart

I have a pair of Mullard CV2492's, like others I found them to have lush mids and a solid bottom end. They also smooth out the highs and make them less fatiguing than the stock JJ's while still having far better detail retrieval in the lows, mids, and highs.
   
  Imo you can't go wrong with them and a lightly used pair is pretty cheap on tubemonger.


----------



## Androktasiai

hey guys, i have read through this forum somewhat, but due to its enormity I'm just going to ask instead of continuing to search. 
   
  My question is this:
   
  I have the BiFrost/Lyr combination with both Audez'e LCD-2 Rev. and HE-500. I currently use the stock GE 6BZ7 tubes from Schiit. 
   
  What tubes can I switch to, to:

 open soundstage up
 brighten treble
 as well as increase transparency?


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Mikiphile I think my k701s work great with the Lyr, it pushes them nicely. I bought a pair of Mullards because back somewhere in this thread someone said if you hear the 701s with mullard tubes rolled you would pee yourself. Mind you I didn't have to rush to the bathroom due to listening to the combo, but they were right it's a good pairing. The Mullard is on the warmer side but I dig that with the 701, also they have some air on the high but it's not enough that makes the bright nature of the 701 unbearable. I have the mullard cv2493 but it's easier to find and cheaper to get the cv2492 (if I remember correctly the guy with the bladder problem was using this tube). Hope this helps,remember this is imo,ymmv and the like..


 

 Seems like a nice solution. However, now i need to fix my bladder problem. I got it after seeing the prices.. especially the more expensive one 
   
  What about the Valhalla tubes? Since the Mullard are way out of my budget. First I decided to add an extra 100 on the DAC, now on the amp.. and tubes another 200??? its a lot.


----------



## TWIFOSP

The valvo E88CC have the most open sound stage of any tubes I've personally tried, but I haven't tried some of the really top tier stuff yet.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





androktasiai said:


> hey guys, i have read through this forum somewhat, but due to its enormity I'm just going to ask instead of continuing to search.
> 
> My question is this:
> 
> ...


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mikiphile said:


> Seems like a nice solution. However, now i need to fix my bladder problem. I got it after seeing the prices.. especially the more expensive one
> 
> What about the Valhalla tubes? Since the Mullard are way out of my budget. First I decided to add an extra 100 on the DAC, now on the amp.. and tubes another 200??? its a lot.





 
 


Yeah tubes can get expensive fast. You can get Mullards for under 200 though, Cv2492 can go for 100-120 a pair. The cv(common valve) were a high quality tube for British military. There are other 6dj8 or 6922 Mullards that might fit your budget better. 
I would just check out the stock tubes that comes with the Lyr If you hadn't got the amp yet, you might like them fine. Mine came with the JJ, which I wouldn't recommend. However there are folks on here who really like the GE or the 6n1p


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Yeah tubes can get expensive fast. You can get Mullards for under 200 though, Cv2492 can go for 100-120 a pair. The cv(common valve) were a high quality tube for British military. There are other 6dj8 or 6922 Mullards that might fit your budget better.
> I would just check out the stock tubes that comes with the Lyr If you hadn't got the amp yet, you might like them fine. Mine came with the JJ, which I wouldn't recommend. However there are folks on here who really like the GE or the 6n1p


 


  Yeap, i think i will go for the 6n1p (valhalla) tubes for starters. Then maybe try something else. 

 PS: Just noticed your pic.. does your dog approve the Mullards? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Maybe you should consult it. It has better hearing then all of us eccentric headfiers.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mikiphile said:


> Yeap, i think i will go for the 6n1p (valhalla) tubes for starters. Then maybe try something else.
> 
> PS: Just noticed your pic.. does your dog approve the Mullards?
> 
> ...




Purdy is so a.d.d it's kinda funny to think of him doing some critical listening, maybe if there was a chicken stick involved.


----------



## OldSkool

I think the 6BQ7A's fit the bill, and they are also very affordable as well. I just bought 5 pair of RCA 6BQ7A (black plate) tubes from 1959, all matched pairs, for $15/pair. In my audio chain, they sound open, detailed, and have a nice, wide soundstage.
   
  I'm not affiliated with this seller, don't know him, but will highly recommend him due to three flawless transactions in the last month.
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220963135646
   
  Personally, I like these 6BQ7A tubes A LOT, and much prefer them to some Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boys (small getter) I recently bought!
   
  YMMV.
  
  Quote: 





androktasiai said:


> hey guys, i have read through this forum somewhat, but due to its enormity I'm just going to ask instead of continuing to search.
> 
> My question is this:
> 
> ...


----------



## foaming at the ears

The Amperex Orange Globes meet most of your criteria, but I'm not sure if they do so exactly.  Perhaps other members can confirm.  
   
  They are holographic, but I am not sure if this translates to opening up the soundstage.
   
  They are very transparent, however, I do not think they "brighten" the treble very much.  It is lush tube that maintains sparkle through clarity... but I'm not sure if this is the same effect as brightening... probably not.  Still, great tubes for ~$30-40/pair.
   
  Quote: 





androktasiai said:


> hey guys, i have read through this forum somewhat, but due to its enormity I'm just going to ask instead of continuing to search.
> 
> My question is this:
> 
> ...


----------



## mrksgrn

I understand that this will be completely subjective, but nevertheless still interesting to people in the same position as me.
   
  I currently have the Matsu****a 6922s in the Lyr and was wondering if anyone can recommend any other tubes that can top it, aside from the Lorenz.
  It's hard for me to imagine it can get any better, the detail in the low end is just astounding compared to the stock 6BZ7. Made me grin like an idiot the first time I heard it after leaving it to burn in.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrksgrn said:


> I understand that this will be completely subjective, but nevertheless still interesting to people in the same position as me.
> 
> I currently have the Matsu****a 6922s in the Lyr and was wondering if anyone can recommend any other tubes that can top it, aside from the Lorenz.
> It's hard for me to imagine it can get any better, the detail in the low end is just astounding compared to the stock 6BZ7. Made me grin like an idiot the first time I heard it after leaving it to burn in.


 
  It's a little hard to believe, but these sound pretty good:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
   
  They are a little harsh at first, but they have a great bottom end and detailed top end.  I find myself coming back to them often, even though I have the Matsu 6922s as well.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## SeaHawk

Are there any tubes that sound BAD in the Lyr?  We're all rolling to find the best to our ears with our setup, but I don't recall anyone saying a particular pair would be better used for a wind chime..
   
  Though I have to say the stock JJ's were close to that for me.  SO MUCH hiss (leading me to think I made a mistake in the purchase)!


----------



## Trance_Gott

I bought Siemens & Halske (RCA labeled) 60's NOS E188CC's from Misterrogers. First thank you for this amazing tubes!
  Before getting these tubes my favourite were the 6N23P-EV. But the E188CC is a class above them. I heared yesterday far into the night with my LCD2. So detail, so clean, superb imagine. I'm very happy with my new tubes.


----------



## mrksgrn

Does the low end beat that of the Matsu, you'd say?
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> It's a little hard to believe, but these sound pretty good:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
> 
> ...


----------



## Misterrogers

Glad you're enjoying them Trance_Gott! They certainly are some of my very favorites.
  
  Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> I bought Siemens & Halske (RCA labeled) 60's NOS E188CC's from Misterrogers. First thank you for this amazing tubes!
> Before getting these tubes my favourite were the 6N23P-EV. But the E188CC is a class above them. I heared yesterday far into the night with my LCD2. So detail, so clean, superb imagine. I'm very happy with my new tubes.


----------



## mikiphile

Since this is a tube thread, has anyone ever encountered *Ei* tubes? They are (were) made close to where I live and Ive heard audiophiles use them in high end stereo amplifiers. If you see the famous Greek Audiophile video on Youtube, you will notice them quite a few times.


----------



## 0rangutan

Has anyone tried using Amperex 8416 tubes?
  They are described as 12v versions of the 6922 - would these work in the Lyr or would the 12v be a problem?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

0rangutan said:


> Has anyone tried using Amperex 8416 tubes?
> They are described as 12v versions of the 6922 - would these work in the Lyr or would the 12v be a problem?




No 6 volts only, exception being 7dj8(7v). Which while it works fine, is not even recommended by schiit


----------



## 0rangutan

Thanks!


----------



## Locknar

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> I think the 6BQ7A's fit the bill, and they are also very affordable as well. I just bought 5 pair of RCA 6BQ7A (black plate) tubes from 1959, all matched pairs, for $15/pair. In my audio chain, they sound open, detailed, and have a nice, wide soundstage.
> 
> I'm not affiliated with this seller, don't know him, but will highly recommend him due to three flawless transactions in the last month.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the tip on these OldSkool! I just ordered 3 pairs of these. I also recently purchased some 1962 Bugle Boys (small getter) which were $10 bucks more than the 3 pairs of RCA's together! I hope I dig 'em more than you did.


----------



## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> What part of "New" do people not understand?
> 
> Any tube which has been plugged in and used in some kind of machine, other than for test only purposes, is no longer New.
> 
> ...




I will just say I cannot agree more!


----------



## MrScary

dailydoseofdaly said:


> No 6 volts only, exception being 7dj8(7v). Which while it works fine, is not even recommended by schiit




You are correct with the caveat that some of the best sounding tube's that are gone! And we will probably never see them again are the Lorenz they are 7 volt tubes.
The only reason that Schiit does not recommend them is because the Lyr put's out what is it ahhh 6.x something volt's. And they just have not tested them.
Surely the Lorenz tube's were a special case. I know that I only have one good set left and one with a tube that is slowly dying. And I am not using them
now I put them away. Because someday I know when I do put them back in once I wear out all my Siemens CCa's that I surely will have a treat awaiting.


----------



## MrScary

locknar said:


> Thanks for the tip on these OldSkool! I just ordered 3 pairs of these. I also recently purchased some 1962 Bugle Boys (small getter) which were $10 bucks more than the 3 pairs of RCA's together! I hope I dig 'em more than you did.




Yep I have a ton of these still. For the price they are a good tube and sound good.


----------



## paradoxper

MrScary I blame you for my empty wallet 
  This has been the most fun I've had with music, I thank you all, please continue to urge me to buy, buy, buy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Read through this entire thread a few times, pretty empty headed. Does anyone have any recommendations on tube's purely geared towards LCD-2's. IF this has already been discussed I'm sorry


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> MrScary I blame you for my empty wallet
> This has been the most fun I've had with music, I thank you all, please continue to urge me to buy, buy, buy
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I think some pretty fun tubes for the LCD-2s are right here:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
   
  They were made in Japan using Mullard tooling and seem to have a nice all-around sound with some really good bass presence.  If you want a little more extension in bass and treble, try these as well:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
   
  Neither set are that expensive and make for really good every day listening (I save the expensive tubes for "special" occasions)...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Ah, I have the Mullard CV2492 and CV24943. Are those Mullard's you recommend a upgrade? I have been on a hunt for the Siemens, as everyone knows no luck.
  I will take a look at the Tungsram. Thanks!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ah, I have the Mullard CV2492 and CV24943. Are those Mullard's you recommend a upgrade? I have been on a hunt for the Siemens, as everyone knows no luck.
> I will take a look at the Tungsram. Thanks!


 
  The Matsu's are probably _not_ an upgrade to the 2492/93 tubes, just cheaper. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  What Siemens are you looking for?  The CCa's?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

I do really enjoy the 93's. Ughhhh, yes!!! You got some!?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I do really enjoy the 93's. Ughhhh, yes!!! You got some!?


 
  No sorry, I don't have any CCa's.  I sold mine after I got hooked on the Lorenz tubes.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Lorenz > CCa's....interesting
  No matter, they are both impossibly hard to track down. Should have gotten into rolling much earlier.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

paradoxper said:


> Ah, I have the Mullard CV2492 and CV24943. Are those Mullard's you recommend a upgrade? I have been on a hunt for the Siemens, as everyone knows no luck.
> I will take a look at the Tungsram. Thanks!




Paradoxper can you compair the 92 and 93s. I was curious but didn't have the $ for both


----------



## paradoxper

With my limited audiophile vocabulary, sure.
  I will start with the 93's as I much prefer them and can discern their sound qualities.
  I found them to be warm, especially in the midranges. As far as something like soundstage
  I feel this is the biggest quality I can hear. It just felt big and really there. I don't think I can really tell a difference within bass,LCD-2's just ruin that for me. They are awesome and nothing changed IMO.
  As far the 92's I honestly could not hear one freaking difference between them and my stock GE 6B27. I didn't honestly give it much time of "burn in" as I was pretty pissed "upgrade"
  I may go back and revise this crappy review of mine once I start to really develop a full sense of different aspects to the music. I know I enjoy it very much, will try to improve the ears.


----------



## HK_sends

Hey, they're your impressions, and that's what counts...you did just fine.  I sorta felt the same way with the 2492s myself, that's why I sold them off a while ago.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Oh, and I know I've head many comment on 92's having a 3-dimensional field.With the 93's I can easily pick out different instruments and vocal ranges. I really very enveloped in the music. I don't know if other's have the  same experience as I do, or perhaps, they can better describe things I can't articulate. Hope I helped...in some way


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

paradoxper said:


> Oh, and I know I've head many comment on 92's having a 3-dimensional field.With the 93's I can easily pick out different instruments and vocal ranges. I really very enveloped in the music. I don't know if other's have the  same experience as I do, or perhaps, they can better describe things I can't articulate. Hope I helped...in some way




Thanks you did help, I was initially trying to decide between the 92,93 and the 7308 mullard for my lcd2r1. The 7308 tube type is known for a relaxed highend so I didn't think it would compliment the lcd2 well. So it was between the 92&93, I went for the 93. So I feel better with my purchase now.

Btw your ears are fine, 93 sounds the same as you described for my lcd2s


----------



## paradoxper

Call me tentative then. No longer watching from a far. And thanks for encouragement!
   
  Beside the illusive CCa's and Lorenz. Are the Mullards a majority consensus for being the best tube LCD's? I need to quit school and just get 2 full time jobs to support tube expenditure.
   
  Do you guys find the Bugel Boys to be meh?


----------



## olor1n

I've just gone back to the Lorenz tubes after a few weeks with the Bugles. I like the Bugles, but they lose out to the Stuttgarts in treble extension, ambiance, instrument separation, and imaging. The Bugles are far from "meh" though. I actually find them easier to listen to than the Stuttgarts (as nice as these tubes are). The Bugles are smoother in the top end imo, with more body in the mid range as well. The Lorenz can sound a bit thin and tizzy depending on the recording (crappy indie). Bass is more refined through the Lorenz though. Of course, this is imho, with the components I have on hand and according to my preferences... YMMV!
   
  edit: thin and tizzy is a gross over exaggeration. What I wanted to convey was that I generally prefer a fuller (perhaps more coloured) sound. The presentation through the Bugles is less coherent (individual elements aren't as well defined), but it may very well be more forgiving of lesser recordings than the Stuttgarts.


----------



## paradoxper

Have you heard the Mullard 93's, If so how do they compare to the Bugles?


----------



## enormo

I have the GE 6BZ7 in my Lyr. I had someone recommend Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7s to me, but they were beaucoup dinky dao $$$. I only got my Lyr a week ago and I don't want to start dropping bone$ for tubes just yet.
   
  At thetubestore.com I spotted the Tung-Sol 12AX7 at $15 each and the Preferred Series 7025-S (a variation of the 12AX7? commissioned by thetubestore.com) for $24 each... and the store rated them as being pretty good. So, I had a couple of questions.
   
http://thetubestore.com/tungsol12ax7.html
http://thetubestore.com/preferred7025.html
   
  First, how can I tell if these tubes will work for a headphone amp? The site says that they will work in preamps... which the Lyr can act as. I've seen the tube discussed in guitar preamp scenarios but not headphone amps.
   
  Second, has anyone heard these tubes on the Lyr or other amp? I like warmth, distinct mids and vocals. Any boost to 3D sound would be great too.
   
  Thanks
   
  Edit: Went to the Shiit site and they said to feel free to substitute any of the follow tube types: 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 6BZ7, CV2492, CV2493, or 6N1P. Does this mean "no" to anything but?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





enormo said:


> I have the GE 6BZ7 in my Lyr. I had someone recommend Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7s to me, but they were beaucoup dinky dao $$$. I only got my Lyr a week ago and I don't want to start dropping bone$ for tubes just yet.
> 
> At thetubestore.com I spotted the Tung-Sol 12AX7 at $15 each and the Preferred Series 7025-S (a variation of the 12AX7? commissioned by thetubestore.com) for $24 each... and the store rated them as being pretty good. So, I had a couple of questions.
> 
> ...


 
  Sorry, 12AX7s are _not_ compatible with the Lyr.  They are another family of tubes entirely.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## JoeyRusso

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> I think the 6BQ7A's fit the bill, and they are also very affordable as well. I just bought 5 pair of RCA 6BQ7A (black plate) tubes from 1959, all matched pairs, for $15/pair. In my audio chain, they sound open, detailed, and have a nice, wide soundstage.
> 
> I'm not affiliated with this seller, don't know him, but will highly recommend him due to three flawless transactions in the last month.
> 
> ...


 


 Well, I tried to avoid this as long as possible (to save my wallet and sanity) but I went ahead and ordered the RCA's and a pair of Matsu's as well.  So begins another journey, time to start rolling...


----------



## enormo

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Sorry, 12AX7s are _not_ compatible with the Lyr.  They are another family of tubes entirely.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 


  Ah... so it's essentially the class of tubes listed by Schiit... 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 6BZ7, CV2492, CV2493, or 6N1P
   
  Thanks!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





joeyrusso said:


> Well, I tried to avoid this as long as possible (to save my wallet and sanity) but I went ahead and ordered the RCA's and a pair of Matsu's as well.  So begins another journey, time to start rolling...


 


  Please let us know how you like the Matsu's


----------



## JoeyRusso

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Please let us know how you like the Matsu's


 


 Will do.. I'm coming from the GE's, so I'll be comparing both to them.


----------



## enormo

Picked up a "Matched Pair Amperex 6DJ8 / ECC88 tubes,Branded HP,Made in Holland,Tested" from eBay yesterday for $70. They showed the test #s but I don know what the heck they mean. I was just excited to tinker with my new amp. Fingers crossed.


----------



## paradoxper

Are these your first tubes rolled?
  Impressions would be great


----------



## enormo

paradoxper said:


> Are these your first tubes rolled?
> Impressions would be great




Yeah. Sure. I'll drop. Back in when I've tries them out.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Quote: 





locknar said:


> Thanks for the tip on these OldSkool! I just ordered 3 pairs of these. I also recently purchased some 1962 Bugle Boys (small getter) which were $10 bucks more than the 3 pairs of RCA's together! I hope I dig 'em more than you did.


 

 I also ordered the "NOS MATCHED PAIR 6BQ7A RCA Tubes, USA - 1959" for little money. Very interesting how they sound.


----------



## Locknar

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> I also ordered the "NOS MATCHED PAIR 6BQ7A RCA Tubes, USA - 1959" for little money. Very interesting how they sound.


 
  Cool. Those were the ones that I got (1959). Let me know what you think when u get a chance. I still haven't tried them yet. I've had the Lyr packed away for awhile but will be hooking it up as soon as my new office/listening room is set up. I just went on a tube buying bonanza that included '59 Mullards/Matsu****as/'62 Bugle Boys (small getter)/70's Siemens/GE "Smokies" and the above '59 RCA's. I'm excited to start rollin'. So far I've only heard the stock JJ's and the 6BZ7 GE's. GE's > JJ's.
   




  J


----------



## Locknar

Quote: 





locknar said:


> Cool. Those were the ones that I got (1959). Let me know what you think when u get a chance. I still haven't tried them yet. I've had the Lyr packed away for awhile but will be hooking it up as soon as my new office/listening room is set up. I just went on a tube buying bonanza that included '59 Mullards/Matsu****as/'62 Bugle Boys (small getter)/70's Siemens/GE "Smokies" and the above '59 RCA's. I'm excited to start rollin'. So far I've only heard the stock JJ's and the 6BZ7 GE's. GE's > JJ's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ha Ha. Funny how the s**t in Matsu****as got censored. How about "Matsucrapas"!


----------



## OldSkool

I'm glad to see a few of you bought some of those '59 RCA 6BQ7A's. Good tube for the price and I hope they sound as good in your rig as they do in mine. They do have a slight "brightness" that smooths out around 80 hours...at least that's what I found. The real star is the soundstage, it's wide and almost "3D-like". Anyway, I'm anxious to hear what the rest of you think about them.
   
  Also, I can't take the credit for discovering the 6BQ7A!  Jamato8 recommended them a couple times much earlier in this thread, and I certainly trust his ears. 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread#post_7411337


----------



## 1957GoldTop

I've had my Schiit Lyr for a week now.  I bought it to power my AKG K702s.  I bought it because I've been ready about how hard the K702s are to drive.  So, I thought for sure a highly recommended dedicated amp would be better than the headphone output on my Marantz SR6005.  Well, try as I might I can't hear one bit of difference… and I mean, I WANT to hear a difference… I WANT to want this amp.  
   
I've tested all types of music, all on vinyl: from a great pressing of Dusty In Memphis (45rpm 200 gram version), to The Black Keys Brothers, to The Clash London Calling, to Miles Davis Kind of Blue (another great pressing), to Willie Nelson Red Headed Stranger and I don't hear a thing different.
   
   
 [size=medium] I don't mean they sound similar to me… they sound 100% identical.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] I hear differences in things… I'm not deaf, I promise.   I bought my K702's to replace my Sennheiser HD-595s and the difference was immediately noticeable.  When I A/B high res 192/24 files to their vinyl versions, I can hear the differences.  When I bought my Marantz I could hear the differences to the other receivers I tested (on the same speakers).  So, I know what differences sound like.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] So really, I'm baffled as to why I hear virtually no difference between my Marantz headphone out and the Lyr.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] I guess my last hope could be different tubes.  I was hoping the Lyr would provide a bit more bass that the Marantz… would a different tube do the trick?  Or, if I can't hear the difference now, a tube isn't going to do much?  My Lyr has the 6BZ7s.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] As an FYI, here are the Marantz specs I received from their support (since that info can't be found anywhere in the manual):[/size]
 [size=medium] Frequency response: 10 Hz~100 kHz,  +1, –3 dB (mode DIRECT) 

 Max voltage output: 1V at 16 ohms, 2V at 32 ohms

 Output impedance: under 500 ohms[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] Thanks.[/size]


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

1957goldtop said:


> I've had my Schiit Lyr for a week now.  I bought it to power my AKG K702s.  I bought it because I've been ready about how hard the K702s are to drive.  So, I thought for sure a highly recommended dedicated amp would be better than the headphone output on my Marantz SR6005.  Well, try as I might I can't hear one bit of difference… and I mean, I WANT to hear a difference… I WANT to want this amp.
> 
> I've tested all types of music, all on vinyl: from a great pressing of Dusty In Memphis (45rpm 200 gram version), to The Black Keys Brothers, to The Clash London Calling, to Miles Davis Kind of Blue (another great pressing), to Willie Nelson Red Headed Stranger and I don't hear a thing different.
> 
> ...




The Lyr was the first tube amp I bought. When I First listened to it I was concerned as well because the jj's that came with the amp had it sounding like a strange ss amp imo. The good news is the Lyr is quite responsive to tube rolling and can be taylored to what sound your looking for. I recommend reading through this thread to find a pair that fits what characteristics your looking for. Also member mister rodgers has a site http://vintageaudiotubes.com/ that I've found to be accurate and helpful.


----------



## paradoxper

While I agree the tube rolling can/will completely change the sound sig of your setup. I do believe he should be able to hear some difference with the Lyr from the Marantz.  Did you allow enough time for your current tubes to burn in?


----------



## enormo

enormo said:


> Picked up a "Matched Pair Amperex 6DJ8 / ECC88 tubes,Branded HP,Made in Holland,Tested" from eBay yesterday for $70. They showed the test #s but I don know what the heck they mean. I was just excited to tinker with my new amp. Fingers crossed.




Got the tubes today and I can certainly tell the difference from the stock 6BZ7s. The highs are the biggest difference. They're more pronounced and give the music a little more dimmension but maybe at the cost of being slightly brash.

Vocals are more pronounced too but not as much as the highs. They also feel a little tighter.

The lows are not quite as dominent as they were but not to a huge degree.

I don't think I'll necessarily like them for all music. I'll have to give them more time and then compare back to the 6BZ7s.


----------



## JoeyRusso

Well, my RCA's and Matsu's arrived safely..  Quick impressions...
   
  The RCA's seem to be more defined than the Matsu's.  They sound more 3D, (as if the background is a little more black and sounds project a bit more distinctly).  The Matsu's seem to be more intimate, vocals are more in your face.  Other than that, subtle differences at best.  I need more time to compare them to the GE's, but neither blow them completely out of the water at this point.  The RCA's will stay in for now and I'll put some more time on them.  They are easily worth recommending for their price and I like what I'm hearing so far.


----------



## Argo Duck

@1957GoldTop - those Marantz specs, especially the output impedance (Zout<500 ohms could mean a lot of things!), suggest there should be major differences in power delivery compared to Lyr. Don't know the impedance of the K702 but if it's much less than that of the Marantz the sound will be quite colored as a result - e.g. would explain less and flabby bass.
   
  The stock GE tubes are quite good but don't reveal the Lyr at its best.
   
  Speaking of which...
   
  @JoeyRusso - I found the Matsu's profoundly different (and better!) from the GEs. They were the first tube to show me the Lyr's capability. Assuming it's not all down to differences in our hearing, you may find the gap widens considerably with a little more time. Agree they are more intimate. A lot more bass/lower mid presence and quality as well in my case. Not familiar with the RCAs.
   
  Look forward to your further impressions as they develop.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





joeyrusso said:


> Well, my RCA's and Matsu's arrived safely..  Quick impressions...
> 
> The RCA's seem to be more defined than the Matsu's.  They sound more 3D, (as if the background is a little more black and sounds project a bit more distinctly).  The Matsu's seem to be more intimate, vocals are more in your face.  Other than that, subtle differences at best.  I need more time to compare them to the GE's, but neither blow them completely out of the water at this point.  The RCA's will stay in for now and I'll put some more time on them.  They are easily worth recommending for their price and I like what I'm hearing so far.


 
  Let them burn in a bit...the sound will improve over time for both sets.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Locknar

I have a general tube question. Is it uncommon for a halo getter to be bent down? Would this be considered a defect? I just received a pair of '59 Mullards and the getter is clearly bent (tilting) down. Other than that they are in really good shape with a near perfect silkscreen. I bought them as NOS off of eBay and they arrived in what appear to be original Mullard boxes. Makes me want to buy a tube tester. I know a lot of people on this thread have had quite a bit of experience purchasing tubes on eBay and I'm guessing most of you just have to take people at their word, in terms of test levels, and just verify that they work in the amp. It would be nice if there were some kind of local service where one could have their tubes tested considering how costly some of them can be. 
   




  J


----------



## Misterrogers

The top ring or 'D' or 'Square' (most often a ring since about 1959ish) is sometimes called the 'getterer', as it's only job is to deposit the 'getter' - the reflective coating inside the top of the tube, during the final stage of manufacturing. I've seen this appendage straight or angled, neither is better. As long as it successfully deposited the getter, it's done its job. The getter doesn't even really need to be at the top of the tube (often I've seen it quite skewed).
   
  Quote: 





locknar said:


> I have a general tube question. Is it uncommon for a halo getter to be bent down? Would this be considered a defect? I just received a pair of '59 Mullards and the getter is clearly bent (tilting) down. Other than that they are in really good shape with a near perfect silkscreen. I bought them as NOS off of eBay and they arrived in what appear to be original Mullard boxes. Makes me want to buy a tube tester. I know a lot of people on this thread have had quite a bit of experience purchasing tubes on eBay and I'm guessing most of you just have to take people at their word, in terms of test levels, and just verify that they work in the amp. It would be nice if there were some kind of local service where one could have their tubes tested considering how costly some of them can be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Locknar

Thanks for clearing that up for me Misterrogers!
   




  J


----------



## Misterrogers

No worries!
  
  Quote: 





locknar said:


> Thanks for clearing that up for me Misterrogers!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## sferic

Tubes have to please LCD-2 + PS1000's. I'm loving these National Electronics (Mullard Tooling) NOS6922's and done looking. Before that the Gold Lions were my favorite but a bit harsh on the Grados. Tried the Russian Cryosets, but a bit muddy.


----------



## MrScary

paradoxper said:


> MrScary I blame you for my empty wallet
> This has been the most fun I've had with music, I thank you all, please continue to urge me to buy, buy, buy
> 
> 
> Read through this entire thread a few times, pretty empty headed. Does anyone have any recommendations on tube's purely geared towards LCD-2's. IF this has already been discussed I'm sorry




Ohh man if ya top by mark of over 3,000 on tubes dear dude do yourself a favor and commit yourself immediately to the Mental ward hahaha j/j It is great fun


----------



## MrScary

sferic said:


> Tubes have to please LCD-2 + PS1000's. I'm loving these National Electronics (Mullard Tooling) NOS6922's and done looking. Before that the Gold Lions were my favorite but a bit harsh on the Grados. Tried the Russian Cryosets, but a bit muddy.




Neither of those tubes are very good the Gold Lions just suck the National are ok at best but they do not sound like the better Mallards at all. Not being mean man just giving you my long term thoughts..


----------



## MrScary

trance_gott said:


> I also ordered the "NOS MATCHED PAIR 6BQ7A RCA Tubes, USA - 1959" for little money. Very interesting how they sound.




Yeah they are ok tubes


----------



## sferic

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Neither of those tubes are very good the Gold Lions just suck the National are ok at best but they do not sound like the better Mallards at all. Not being mean man just giving you my long term thoughts..


 


  Oh I know, no insult taken. They are all budget options. Between the three they work best for me. The LCDs can be muddy with bad tubes, and PS1000's can be shrill in a heartbeat. I just think the Nationals are  decent choice in the budget upgrade department.
   
  I'd expect the Donald Trump of tube rolling to have more refined tastes


----------



## Misterrogers

Certainly having the opportunity to do lots of rolling helps 'zero in' on what we each like. Keep in mind though, every part of your chain has some bearing on your whether a particular tube has good synergy with your system. A warmer system will benefit and may sound better with the Tungsrams, Telefunkens or Matsu*'s, while a brighter more neutral chain will love the warmth and lushness of a Mullard. I've been testing some new headphone cables for a friend. They sounded just ok with my S&H E188CC's, but really nice with my pinched waist d-getters. Everything matters to some degree.
  
  Quote: 





sferic said:


> Oh I know, no insult taken. They are all budget options. Between the three they work best for me. The LCDs can be muddy with bad tubes, and PS1000's can be shrill in a heartbeat. I just think the Nationals are  decent choice in the budget upgrade department.
> 
> I'd expect the Donald Trump of tube rolling to have more refined tastes


----------



## ckc527

What do you guys use to hold your collection of tubes? 

Thanks,
ckc


----------



## SeaHawk

Gravity...


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Certainly having the opportunity to do lots of rolling helps 'zero in' on what we each like. Keep in mind though, every part of your chain has some bearing on your whether a particular tube has good synergy with your system. A warmer system will benefit and may sound better with the Tungsrams, Telefunkens or Matsu*'s, while a brighter more neutral chain will love the warmth and lushness of a Mullard. I've been testing some new headphone cables for a friend. They sounded just ok with my S&H E188CC's, but really nice with my pinched waist d-getters. Everything matters to some degree.




Great point my friend an example for me is my DAC so my signal chain looked orginally like this > Computer --> M-audio 192 (Spdiff out) ...--- MInimax EE Tube DAC --- Lyr (Siemens&Halske CCa)'s ---- Lcd-2's 
So here is my chain and it sound great unless I play any type of heavy metal this Sibilance is so annoying I am going crazy this was about 10 months ago - a year ago... So first thing I did was put the tubes that I had in
that were somewhat smooth sounding they were a pair of Mullards E88CC' sI think well nope the Sibilance is still there so I am really going nutz... Well the EE MInimax is a kick but DAC however it has an evil side to it.. It has a tube
and it also has opamps so I started a long journey trying different tubes in the EE Minimax first well I put in the supposed best sounding according to Boulder Cables which does upgrades and mods on the EE Minimax well they were presnave tubes
only 100.00 for two and the DAC only takes on tubes so good deal so I put the tube in and now the Sibilance is worse than ever it sounds so bad now that this Sibilance has now leaked into other Musical Genres... So luckily I am very versed in Opamps
so I did a bit of research and found out that the opamp's are doubles so cool I found the diagram where you put them etc.. And I had about 10 different sets so I first put in the supposed top class that most companies use the AD797's so I start up the DAC
with the Presnave tube in it Mullard E88CC in the Lyr and the LCD-2's .. WEll now the Sibilance is so bad that all musical Genres are affected at this point I could not even listen at all. So I quickly took an inventory of the Opamps I had made sure I found some reviews of
the attributes of all of them.. Well to make this story shorter I went through all the opamps I had in fact along the way I suggested a few some did help the sibilance but it was still freaking there..Atleast I was back at my starting point only sibilance now with the Lyr tube (Mullard E88cc)
EE Minimax presnave tube and I put in my old favorite opamp AD827's well I listned and the Sibilance was better but still their with the pitch of the song goes high .. But now I have some good added bass response and the AD827 is known for its 3d spacial sound.. and so are the CCa's in the Lyr now I am
getting cool effects that instruments are coming from like odd spaces instrument separation is outstanding etc. So then I put the stock tube back in the EE Minimax and wow now the Sibilance is just barely their but now for some reason my Bass response sucks ass...

So I still have sibilance a bit and now bad Bass so I keep everything the same and focus on the EE Minimax tube.. Well I did some research on the tubes and find that the attributes of the Mullards are a smooth sound etc.. so One of the guys on the EE Minimax forum on here suggest this tube but then he warns me that they go for 200.00 + I was like shiiiiiit.. So I do a search no one on the Internet has any... So I search Ebay and find a guy that has two of these expensive tubes and has a buy it now for 120.00 NOS.. Well I jumped on it and bought them..
So I get this new Mullard something haha I cant remember which one it is too lazy to check the other.. anyway I put it int he Minimax and now the sibilance is gone however Now I created a new issue all the music sounds bright not sibilant just icky so I go back to the opamps.. And remember from years back that the prized opamap was and still is to most the Burbrown (now TI)OPA627 so I did not have any I had some that I replaced in a CD player once so I looked around and everyone wanted jesus 200.00 for 2 they are single opamps so I needed 4 OPA627's two mounted on a special 8Dimm socket well I inquire and indeed the price is a bit above 200.00 so I'm like **** again.. Well I check on Ebay and see that these their are a bunch of them on Ebay already setup with the two single Opamps to the 1 8Dimm socket. And these are cheap only like 19.99 for a set of two well I only needed two but I bought four well it took forever for them to get here and about 3.5 weeks later I get the opamps in.. So I quicly take the cover off the EE Minimax and put the OPA627's in turn her on. haha it has a 20 second warm up time that haha seems life forever sometimes.. So I put ion my LCD-2's and fire up some metal in .Flac format actually I used the band Steelheart due to his almost 5 octave range this always was sibilant well I start listening and the extreme brightness is gone... So Im happy so far.. well here comes the part where the Sibilance rears its ugly head... Nope not their I am thrilled to death. I finally found the problem it was a combo of the Opamps and the DAC tube the EE Minimax that was causing all of this.. So now that things are working I pull out the Mullard E88CC's and slap at the time my favorite tubes Simens&Halske CCa Grey plates.. Well I listened to the song again and suddenly I felt as if I was at the concert the beautiful dimensional qualities of the CCa are back not too bright the Sibilance gone..

So you guys are probably wondering why I posted this well Mr Rogers made a great point.... Its not always just the tubes in the Lyr in fact even the main start point of your signal chain can be the culprit the soundcard which is putting out the Spdiff signal haha and to get really down to it... If your power fupply in your computer has voltage fluctations you are giving the whole computer band electricity which surely only mildly effects the soundcard sending out the Spdiff or Optical I forgot to mention I use both jsut an FYI if you do indeed fget into high Resolution music optical (TOS link) only does 96hz typically Spdiff is the prefered method and you can merl use any good quality RCA cable no do not use radio shack andy 20.00 cable is great and it is the best sound... You do notice I do not mention USB their is a reason. as slight as it is... I play guitar now going on 32 years so I have much music equipment that uses USB 2.0 and it works great
however USB is not perfect yet.. USB 3.0 Is far superior and luckily when I built this new monster machine I have that is overclocked and watercooled to 4.8 GHZ she came with the 3.0 USB so I am ready what happens with USB 2.0 is first latency which is not really an issue for a listener it is for a musician... howerver their also can be dropouts especiallu on laptops that do not have seperate USB channels.. So for me no I do not use USB 2.0 for sound it is inferior so far.. When USB 3.0 goes mainstream and everyone catches up ahhh I would say 4 -5 years then prob fixed..


So bottom line never assume it is just the Tubes in the Lyr  Good luck sometimes ya need it...


So my final signal chain is as follows

Computer--- Maudio 192 (Spdiff out) and (optical out) ----> EE Minimax (Mullard tube and OPA 627 opamps) --->(silver rca cables between these two) ---> Lyr (Simens&Halske CCa's or Lorenz sometimes) ----> Lcd-2

ôô
Ö

Scary out:


----------



## Misterrogers

Thanks for sharing your experiences Scary! It can be time consuming to tweak the chain, but very rewarding.


----------



## mikek200

Does anyone have any experience,or knowledge about this tube?
   
    2 pcs. SIEMENS E88CC 6922 CCa GOLD PIN NOS NIB VACUUM TUBES[size=x-small] (160762864253)[/size]
   
   
   
  I fell for this guys ad,on ebay yesterday..thinking it was a real CCa tube,after 3 emails to the seller,he kept insisting ,that it was an authentic CCa,well guess what..it ain't
  So,know,I'm just trying to get some info on it,sq,good or bad
  On a scale of 1-10,how would you rate it?
   
  MIke


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey mikek200, responded to your message. While they're not CCa's, they're very nice 60's gray shield S&H E88CC's. Not sure what you paid, but the right price they're nice tubes. Now, tube buying on eBay is somewhat of a crap shoot. They may/may not be NOS, and may/may not measure well.
  
  Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Does anyone have any experience,or knowledge about this tube?
> 
> 2 pcs. SIEMENS E88CC 6922 CCa GOLD PIN NOS NIB VACUUM TUBES[size=x-small] (160762864253)[/size]
> 
> ...


----------



## mikek200

Hi Mr.R
  Yes,got your pm-tnx,
  I paid $229.00 =shipping from Thailand.
   
  I have initiated a case against this seller on e-bay,& he has said that a full refund will be sent
  We shall see.?
  Funny thing,he has an outstanding seller rating..just can't figure out why he insists that they are Cca's


----------



## Misterrogers

Well, in the sense that CCa is supposed to be hand picked and matched E88CC's set aside and labeled for the German Post... these may have been in consideration for CCa designation. If they were, they were rejected 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~$220 is a bit high for E88CC gray shields. Regardless, if you keep them and they're good, you'll have a nice set of tubes (though not CCa's). It's wooly out there in eBay land. Take care and do your research.
  
  Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Hi Mr.R
> Yes,got your pm-tnx,
> I paid $229.00 =shipping from Thailand.
> 
> ...


----------



## mikek200

Tnx  Misterrogers..
   
  And my apologies to the rest of the forum,for posting my e-bay issues...should have kept it ,PM'd
   
  Mike


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





1957goldtop said:


> I've had my Schiit Lyr for a week now.  I bought it to power my AKG K702s.  I bought it because I've been ready about how hard the K702s are to drive.  So, I thought for sure a highly recommended dedicated amp would be better than the headphone output on my Marantz SR6005.  Well, try as I might I can't hear one bit of difference… and I mean, I WANT to hear a difference… I WANT to want this amp.
> 
> I've tested all types of music, all on vinyl: from a great pressing of Dusty In Memphis (45rpm 200 gram version), to The Black Keys Brothers, to The Clash London Calling, to Miles Davis Kind of Blue (another great pressing), to Willie Nelson Red Headed Stranger and I don't hear a thing different.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  My Lyr with Lorenz tubes sound pretty much identical to my vintage Marantz 2285b receiver. The slight difference being the Marantz hits a bit harder in the bass and notes have more texture to them. So I have no doubt your Marantz SR6005 sounds much like the Lyr. I also have a vintage Pioneer integrated amp that beats any of my stand alone headphone amps (headroom ultra desktop, WA6, Lyr).


----------



## ckc527

Guys, I recently acquired a pair of Amperex 6DJ8 bugle boys from 1959 for my Lyr and I noticed one of the tube makes a bell sound when i lightly touch or tap the tube. Is this considered microphonic and should I be concerned? Is this a sign that this tube might not last long? Other than that, the tubes sound really nice.
   
  Thanks,
  ckc


----------



## eddiek997

Here is a great resource for tubes for the Lyr.
  I have bought many tubes from this guy for various amps (not just headphone, but true high end cary amps etc).
   
  This page in particular talks about the variances of tubes that are acceptable for the Lyr, I already have a pair of the 7308's as preamp tubes in another amp and they are superb.
   
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
   
  The website is archaic but the knowledge that Brent has is timeless.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Guys, I recently acquired a pair of Amperex 6DJ8 bugle boys from 1959 for my Lyr and I noticed one of the tube makes a bell sound when i lightly touch or tap the tube. Is this considered microphonic and should I be concerned? Is this a sign that this tube might not last long? Other than that, the tubes sound really nice.
> 
> Thanks,
> ckc


 

 Then don't do that.. if the tubes don't make unnecessary harmonics without touching them, theyre fine, I would consider putting the [potentially] problematic tube on a tester and see what spews out.
  Other than that, sit back and enjoy....


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Then don't do that.. if the tubes don't make unnecessary harmonics without touching them, theyre fine, I would consider putting the [potentially] problematic tube on a tester and see what spews out.
> Other than that, sit back and enjoy....


 
   
  Typically I wouldn't touch them but that one tube was making a sizzle sound during warm up so it got me concerned. My other tubes don't do this. This sizzle sound seem to last up to 20 minutes or so. I kept the amp running for last few days, hopefuly this can cure the sizzle sound.
   
  I don't have a tube tester. Any suggestion on a decent tester?
   
  Thanks,
  ckc


----------



## Chris_Himself

Hey guys I get microphonics/hum when I turn up the amp on the right channel, is this normal at all?

 Chris


----------



## flu_fighter

Have you tried switching the tubes around?
   
  If the hum is now on the left side when you switched the tubes, then the problem lies in the tube, if not, then there might be something wrong with your unit.
  Quote: 





chris_himself said:


> Hey guys I get microphonics/hum when I turn up the amp on the right channel, is this normal at all?
> 
> Chris


----------



## Chris_Himself

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> Have you tried switching the tubes around?
> 
> If the hum is now on the left side when you switched the tubes, then the problem lies in the tube, if not, then there might be something wrong with your unit.


 

 I know this is going to sound really noob..
   
  But how in the hell do I switch the tubes, since it's a clamshell design do I have to somehow evolve needlenose pliers for hands?
   
  Also I can't tell if the tubes I have are biased or not and I've never biased tubes before, in fact I usually have the guitar center guy replace tubes in my guitar amps.


----------



## flu_fighter

Just gently pull them out, usually I find that you may need to rock them gently to and fro, but not too much so that you can slide the pins out from the sockets, after that you switch the tube from the front with the back.
   
  Is this your first tube amp?
  
   
  You can also get this, some people have used this with much success:
   
http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC
  Quote: 





chris_himself said:


> I know this is going to sound really noob..
> 
> But how in the hell do I switch the tubes, since it's a clamshell design do I have to somehow evolve needlenose pliers for hands?
> 
> Also I can't tell if the tubes I have are biased or not and I've never biased tubes before, in fact I usually have the guitar center guy replace tubes in my guitar amps.


----------



## Chris_Himself

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> Just gently pull them out, usually I find that you may need to rock them gently to and fro, but not too much so that you can slide the pins out from the sockets, after that you switch the tube from the front with the back.
> 
> Is this your first tube amp?
> 
> ...


 


  I have a Millet Max, but yeah I got them both within a one week span. I don't think it's the tubes, cuz usually when I have a dead tube, it'll sound BAD. I think the Bifrost is transmitting PC noise, which honestly has never happened to me before from any other DAC. I'm using optical which should never transmit PC radiation, right? I mean doesn't Schiit use pretty much the best stuff they can put in these things?


----------



## paradoxper

Nope, hence the name


----------



## flu_fighter

If it is the Bifrost, it should not be just in the right channel, maybe try hooking up the Bifrost with another amp and see if the noise is still there, if it is, maybe there is something wrong with the Bifrost.
  
  Quote: 





chris_himself said:


> I have a Millet Max, but yeah I got them both within a one week span. I don't think it's the tubes, cuz usually when I have a dead tube, it'll sound BAD. I think the Bifrost is transmitting PC noise, which honestly has never happened to me before from any other DAC. I'm using optical which should never transmit PC radiation, right? I mean doesn't Schiit use pretty much the best stuff they can put in these things?


----------



## paradoxper

Has he even checked to make sure it's not his amp? Or try a different pair of tubes? Unseated tubes, ground loops?


----------



## Chris_Himself

Just swapped them, I went from a set of 
   
  GE
  6BZ7/6BQ7A
   
  to
   
  Gold Lion Genalex
  E88CC/6922
   
  I definitely had a bad left tube (top one)
   
  The HE-500 I was using sounded not that much better than the HE-5LE, everything sounds a lot more balanced and the hiss only starts at about 75% on the Lyr which I assume has to be normal given all that power and the low impedance of the cans.
   
  Did I do good? Also how would I know if the tubes that shipped with my Lyr are biased...


----------



## flu_fighter

Without a tube tester, you can't really tell, maybe the pair you used may not have been closely matched.
   
  There is still hiss after you changed to the Genalex?
  
  Quote: 





chris_himself said:


> Just swapped them, I went from a set of
> 
> GE
> 6BZ7/6BQ7A
> ...


----------



## Chris_Himself

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> Without a tube tester, you can't really tell, maybe the pair you used may not have been closely matched.


 


  Oh I just visited Schiit, and all 3 of the pairs of tubes I have are from their stock so I can rest easy knowing they've been set up for the Lyr. These ones are a little more flat which should let me assess HE-500 vs HE-5LE performance, but thats for another thread. 
   
  I need to order the GE ones, I actually liked the way those sounded better, but they were transmitting a lot of noise.. is this something I can contact Schiit about, or am I SOL without an original receipt?
   
  I'm pretty pleased with their products so far, aesthetically they're pretty much perfect.


----------



## paradoxper

Yea, that's about pretty much normal with the Lyr.
   
  You fixed it! you must have done good.
  Good question, I have no clue :/
  Hmm biased tubes. Are you worried about crossover/distortion?


----------



## Chris_Himself

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> Without a tube tester, you can't really tell, maybe the pair you used may not have been closely matched.
> 
> There is still hiss after you changed to the Genalex?


 


  Hiss is there, but much later on the gain knob with the Genalex.
   
  The sound was more punchy with the GE, am I on the money with this observation? I think these Genalex tubes match the treble centric HE-5LE better though at let them extend as they normally would.
   
  Man those Asgard owners have it so easy just plugging in and listening to their music without a care in the world.


----------



## flu_fighter

75% of the volume on the Lyr as in the volume knob is at 3 o'clock?
   
  That would be pretty loud.
  
  Quote: 





chris_himself said:


> Hiss is there, but much later on the gain knob with the Genalex.
> 
> The sound was more punchy with the GE, am I on the money with this observation? I think these Genalex tubes match the treble centric HE-5LE better though at let them extend as they normally would.
> 
> Man those Asgard owners have it so easy just plugging in and listening to their music without a care in the world.


----------



## Chris_Himself

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> 75% of the volume on the Lyr as in the volume knob is at 3 o'clock?
> 
> That would be pretty loud.


 

 Oh no I'm not deaf haha... that'd make me look bad with the whole cable business thing LOL
   
  Thats just with nothing playing, and it's not computer noise since I turned off the DAC. We're good to go right?
   
  I'm gonna order some replacement GE's from Schiit now, I feel that those were more towards my liking, I have some 6H23N-EB's too, I want to try those, but I'm not spending 10 minutes wiggling out those tubes again...


----------



## OldSkool

Chris, definitely order one of those Electro-Harmonix tube gloves from Amazon. With that glove, you can pull the tubes out in about 5 seconds.
   
  Yeah, I was thinking about having you do a recable job for me, but if you are listening to music at 3 on the dial...umm, maybe not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Good to have you here!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

The socket savers from tubemonger also make it easy to access your tubes. No gloves ayour hey allow you to put dampers on the tubes to help the tube noise


----------



## Chris_Himself

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Chris, definitely order one of those Electro-Harmonix tube gloves from Amazon. With that glove, you can pull the tubes out in about 5 seconds.
> 
> Yeah, I was thinking about having you do a recable job for me, but if you are listening to music at 3 on the dial...umm, maybe not.
> 
> ...


 


  Oh yeah for sure, hit me up. All you gotta do is wrap a coathanger in some bubblewrap, I mean space-age noise rejection material, and boom you've got some cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I actually just put two strips of tape on the tubes and lifted them out. You can really tell my engineering undergrad schooling is coming in handy..
   
  Is there a conceivable way to get some blue LED's in this guy to illuminate the tubes without the use of science? I had a Crate Blue Voodoo amp with blue LED's and I was in love with that thing!


----------



## Adaptivemotion

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300679448264?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&autorefresh=true&autorefresh=true#ht_5302wt_1397
   
   

 [size=11pt]  [size=x-small]Rare pair of Mullard ECC88 6DJ8 Made in Holland.[/size]
   
[/size]

  I just placed the winning bid on this auction. It feels strange that I was the only person placing a bid on them. I hope they will play good with my Lyr and HE-500.


----------



## qwasqasw

Cool! Good point about the 6N1p I should have thought of that.


----------



## MrScary

mikek200 said:


> Does anyone have any experience,or knowledge about this tube?
> 
> [COLOR=990099]2 pcs. SIEMENS E88CC 6922 CCa GOLD PIN NOS NIB VACUUM TUBES[/COLOR][COLOR=333333] (160762864253)[/COLOR]
> 
> ...




Mike, I apologize I was sick for a day and did not see you private message I messed up I kept seeing so many Lie rs on Ebay claiming that every E88CC were CCa I must have gotten CCa vision...
Well haha I found a pair of Simens&Halske CCa A-Frames that were in a separate tupperware container I forgot about so they are up for sale anyone wanting them will sell for 140.00 shipping included I am stocked up wtih CCa's for quite a while
the sonic signature of the A-Frams is similar to the regular CCa's they have a bit more Bass just not quiet as 3d Dimensional I will give you first Dibs on them Mike if ya don't want them then I will open them to the Forum..


----------



## mikek200

Scary,
  Not a problem..I contacted e-bay,and they had the whole issue settled in less than 24hrs..
  The money is sitting in my paypal acount..getting itchy for..........................MORE TUBES!!!
   
  Mike


----------



## MrScary

*Everyone for a limited time only*

I will keep these up here for a day I have a pair of *Simesn&Halske CCa A-Frames* that were hidden by myself from myself hahah don't ask I have enough CCa's so if anyone wants them ya know I will just go ahead and sell them for* 130.00 shipped*.. they are perfect I bought them NOS
and I did use them for maybe at best 10 hours I have played them all day today to insure they are ok.. And they sound great.. so message me and let me know... If nobody wants them then I will post them on Ebay for 180.00 buy it now..


----------



## paradoxper

That specfic Ebay seller accused me of being you, Mike. He also claims he never said they were CCa. Their "CCa" is just for the search engine.


----------



## mikek200

CCa was clearly in the ad...even the custom service girl from ebay ..read it back to me.
  He even had the *alls, to tell me in an ebay message.."that I should research things,before I buy"
  Meanwhile he is the one who is false advertising.


----------



## paradoxper

It's interesting because in the actual headline listing it says CCa but then in the description he leaves it out.
  Regardless the seller doesn't seem to care.


----------



## mikek200

thats right...but,
  E-bay & PayPal care.
  Guess this seller will have to go my...." do not from list"


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> *Everyone for a limited time only*
> I will keep these up here for a day I have a pair of *Simesn&Halske CCa A-Frames* that were hidden by myself from myself hahah don't ask I have enough CCa's so if anyone wants them ya know I will just go ahead and sell them for* 130.00 shipped*.. they are perfect I bought them NOS
> and I did use them for maybe at best 10 hours I have played them all day today to insure they are ok.. And they sound great.. so message me and let me know... If nobody wants them then I will post them on Ebay for 180.00 buy it now..





>





> [size=small]Randy,[/size]





> [size=small]Whats your paypal address[/size]





>





>





>





>


----------



## paradoxper

They are already bought


----------



## mikek200

man,your fast


----------



## paradoxper

Many of these tubes are hard to find. I was frantic, honest.


----------



## paradoxper

Mr.Scary you're the biggest hog of them all! I have to wonder how many CCa's he has....maybe give us a ballpark number?


----------



## mikek200

Does anyone here have any info about this tubes:

 miniwatt PCC88 pinched waist D-getter ...made in Holland{I think?}
  I am thinking of buying a pair of these,and could use some advise?
   
  Do they have good sq & sonics for the lcd-2?
  Will they work well with the LYR?
  Being that they almost 55 years old,how long might they last?
  And,finally,I've read that they might be a collectable tube?
   
  Any advise/opinions will be appreciated,
   
  Thanks,
  Mike


----------



## Striation

Hey Guys.
  I'm new to the forum and I've had my Bifrost & Lyr for a month now.  I've got several tube types already and was wondering if anyone has an opinion on these?
   
 Electro Harmonix 6922 EH E88CC 6DJ8  They are pretty inexpensive but I haven't heard anything about them.  
   
  My Lyre came with the GE's which I like a lot but I've been listening to some new Russian 
 6N1P-EV (ECC88 6DJ8) Gold Grids  which sound really good to me and yes they do run hotter as I'm sure you already know.
   
  The first set of tubes I bought were 
 Amperex 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1971 MATCHED PAIR A FRAME HOLLAND ORANGE GLOBE for 54.00 bucks.  I've only listened to them for a few hours but they don't sound any better than the GE's at this point.  I probably need to burn them in longer.
   
  Any thoughts are welcome.


----------



## mikek200

Hi Straiton,
   
  I'm in the same boat as you,...new to head-fi ... about 2 months.
   
  One of the best resources that was recommended to me is here:
   
     http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
   
  This website is a virtual encyclopedia of information about tubes..I use it regularly when I'm reseaching tubes.
   
  One bit of advise,....hold on to your wallet..it can thin out quickly.
  Hope this link helps.
   
  Mike


----------



## Striation

Thanks Mike.
  It's too late,,,, the tube bug has bit me but I haven't gone for the $150 and up crowd yet 
   
  Stri


----------



## mikek200

..Another good source of info is here:
   
     http://vintageaudiotubes.com/
   
  I've bought a number of tubes {Siemens & Halske E188CC Gray Shields a major upgrade from the GE tubes } from Mike..his tech support is great, as well.
  I strongly suggest you contact for suggestions/advise


----------



## MrScary

paradoxper said:


> Mr.Scary you're the biggest hog of them all! I have to wonder how many CCa's he has....maybe give us a ballpark number? :angry_face:




ahhh I make a special appearance from time to time not like the old days of posting over and over everyday..

How many do I have hmmmm well.. "How many licks does it take to get to the center of the tootsie roll pop"

I can tell you I have more than I realized and less than I had lets just say I at one time got real lucky with a real real dumb ebayer that didn't realize what she had and I took it offline of ebay and bought like some nice sized box of them for cheap..
boy dumb Egyptians with CCa Grey Plates now that's a toughy to find... only reason I found them i being a Computer Engineer had automated a script to alert me via RSS and I grabbed her like within 2 minutes of her posting them haha since I work from home 
and then bribed her by saying ohhh i wil pay as a gift so she didnt have to pay the ebay fee hahaha little did she know she sold me about ohhh 3,000 dollars of CCa's hahaha for less than 300.00 haha I never told this story hahaha


----------



## MrScary

paradoxper said:


> Many of these tubes are hard to find. I was frantic, honest.




Yeah and you got the real CCa's not the A-Frames which sound good but not as good as the CCa's hahah my mistake ohhh well I have more hahahaha


----------



## MrScary

paradoxper said:


> That specfic Ebay seller accused me of being you, Mike. He also claims he never said they were CCa. Their "CCa" is just for the search engine.




What ya do with these F's is simple report them as scammers because they are the same thing for NOS if you see anyone posting tubes that are used as NOS as some idiot did what was it a month or so ago on here as NOS
then sold them on ebay as NOS they are scammers simple NOS is NOS testing sure on a tester is acceptable but I have many times bought tubes that have never been tested and out of the gosh 100 tubes or more that have bought more i believe I have had 4 bad ones
and one that had a bad bad noise that went away after 8 hours of play quite unusual.. Dont take any Schiit from these Ebay guys I buy and sell on ebay alot and I report people all the time... on other items musical items are worse that tubes scammers everywhere


----------



## MrScary

mikek200 said:


> Hi Straiton,
> 
> I'm in the same boat as you,...new to head-fi ... about 2 months.
> 
> ...




Yeah this is an ok site their is a better one I will have to round her up... somewhere in my bookmarks from hell... yeah the Lorenz are PC88 tubes as I said they are 7 volt tubes in theory they should last longer they surely are my favorite's too bad they just are plain gone off this planet... I really wish that I could conjur up the dead the men that built these tubes and create zombies that make Lorenz PC88's now that would be the only way we will ever get anymore... how sad is that... but again even with guitar amps some seek out the very best of tubes and they are rare and soon... all of them will be gone.. And we have no current production tubes that even come close to these Vintage tubes... You know its kinda like when ya hear the GE's that now are stock in the Lyr then hear the Valvo's or high end Mullards or CCa's or the Lorenz you realize you have had schiit literally put in your ear... hahaha I mean the GE's are ok if ya dont mind like having a build up of earwax of like 5 years but what can one say cheerish these times soon all the great tubes will be gone.... I think that is why I am stocked up for at least 10 years.. ôô


----------



## MrScary

Well guys I have posted now more than I have in months looks dead around here dear me!! not like the old days this thread was on fire!!

Well I gotta Dr. Appointment with a mad man this Dr. sucks so much arse he is so arrogant it takes all my will not to beat the living crap out of him and then in my defense say he "Tried to touch me" hahaha

ôô
Ö


----------



## mikek200

Randy,
  Wow..that's a mouth full...
  What have you been smokin,lately???
  Gee,I wish I had some??
   
  Question:
  Is your dr. from ..........................Egypt???
   
  I'm sending you a PM-
  rsvp-me,when you have time<OK?
   
  Mike


----------



## perfect-pitch

Heya folks,

i need your help. I've got a nice pair of Amperex Bugle Boys for my Lyr. They are very noisy-i can hear a very dominant hiss when the music stops. My first pair of tubes with that problem.
Any hints for me? 

Thanks!


----------



## eddiek997

Shut down the Amp,
  Remove then re-seat the tubes, having swapped them around.
  Also, check the connections from source to ear.
   
  If you can, test the tubes on a tester, that will give a more scientific indication that there's a problem.


----------



## Kremer930

mrscary said:


> Well guys I have posted now more than I have in months looks dead around here dear me!! not like the old days this thread was on fire!!
> Well I gotta Dr. Appointment with a mad man this Dr. sucks so much arse he is so arrogant it takes all my will not to beat the living crap out of him and then in my defense say he "Tried to touch me" hahaha
> ôô
> Ö




Hi Scarey. This thread is still alive. I don't think I have seen so many posts in such a short while. Now let me look...their is MrScarey and .....no one else is here! What the?

If others are like me they have probably found a good set of tubes and are kicking back enjoying their Lyr and waiting for the Statement rig to be released.


----------



## Striation

I think you have something there Kremer.  I'm enjoying my Amperex Oranges that I went back to yesterday.  They are definitely breaking in nicely now and I'm kicked back enjoying them after a hectic day @ work.  I ordered a pair of Siemens from MisterRogers.  Very curious to see how those compare.  
   
  Stri.


----------



## F1REStarter

Hi guys, I have the Lyr with 6BZ7 tubes that Schiit supplied, and also have the LCD-2 Rev. 2. I'm hearing a little veil or slight dullness to the music, which I don't really favor too much. Aside from that, everything else seems fine. What tubes can you suggest that will bring vocals, instruments etc more forward, more engaging, and without the slight veil? Will the 6N1P tubes bring the sound more forward than the 6BZ7s? How do they compare to the Gold Lion 6922s? Thanks.


----------



## Adaptivemotion

This is not a tube recommendation, but I would advice you to take a look at the new JPlay 4.2 with the Xtreme engine. It does bring the vocals and the instruments forward quite tremendous.
   
http://jplay.eu/download/
   
  There is a free trial to download and try out before you decide if it is worth the money it does cost.


----------



## Striation

Quote: 





f1restarter said:


> Hi guys, I have the Lyr with 6BZ7 tubes that Schiit supplied, and also have the LCD-2 Rev. 2. I'm hearing a little veil or slight dullness to the music, which I don't really favor too much. Aside from that, everything else seems fine. What tubes can you suggest that will bring vocals, instruments etc more forward, more engaging, and without the slight veil? Will the 6N1P tubes bring the sound more forward than the 6BZ7s? How do they compare to the Gold Lion 6922s? Thanks.


 


  I have purchased a lot of different low end tubes over a couple of months of owning my "Lyr" and have come to the conclusion to just buy a couple pair of good NOS Amperex Bugle Boys (6DJ8).  Which I just did this morning actually.   They cost $85 bucks a matched pair from the following link ----  
   
  http://www.audiotubes.com
   
  The cost might seem high but I would have saved money in the long run if I would have found this forum sooner.  This of course is MHO.
   
  Stri


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Does anyone have any experience,or knowledge about this tube?
> 
> 2 pcs. SIEMENS E88CC 6922 CCa GOLD PIN NOS NIB VACUUM TUBES[size=x-small] (160762864253)[/size]
> 
> ...


 

 The real "CCa"s are a specially selected subset of tubes from the E88CC/6922 class of tubes.
   
  The Siemens E88CC/6922 vacuum tubes are already very good in their own right.
   
  "CCa"s have more sonic resolution. This difference is more pronounced on revealing (i.e. SUPER HI HI-FI or SUPER $$$$$) systems.


----------



## Kremer930

striation said:


> I think you have something there Kremer.  I'm enjoying my Amperex Oranges that I went back to yesterday.  They are definitely breaking in nicely now and I'm kicked back enjoying them after a hectic day @ work.  I ordered a pair of Siemens from MisterRogers.  Very curious to see how those compare.
> 
> Stri.




Yes. My two go-to tubes are the Lorenz and the amperes orange globes. I like both of them with my HE6. If I am playing music through speakers via the Lyr I will pop in the Gold Lions.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





f1restarter said:


> Hi guys, I have the Lyr with 6BZ7 tubes that Schiit supplied, and also have the LCD-2 Rev. 2. I'm hearing a little veil or slight dullness to the music, which I don't really favor too much. Aside from that, everything else seems fine. What tubes can you suggest that will bring vocals, instruments etc more forward, more engaging, and without the slight veil? Will the 6N1P tubes bring the sound more forward than the 6BZ7s? How do they compare to the Gold Lion 6922s? Thanks.


 
  Two "relatively" inexpensive tubes that are getting some love with folks are the National/Matsu* 6922 and the Tungsram PCC88s.  They are known for better bass extension and treble detail (some may feel the Tungsrams are too bright at first but they settle down after a while).
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
   
  I have sets of these and use them with my Lyr and LCD-3s.  I also have some Lorenz and other expensive tubes but for day-to-day listening, I keep coming back to these.  FWIW, I tend to favor the Matsu's over the Tungsram, but either way, I think you will find the "veil" will be gone.
   
   
  As usual, IMHO and YMMV!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## sridhar3

I'm thinking about selling my Amperex USA Orange P.Q. 6922s.  I wrote about them in post #2 on page 1 of this thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread#post_7408425).  I'll list 'em on the FS forums soon, but in the meantime, if anybody here wants 'em, let me know.


----------



## F1REStarter

Cool thanks that's pretty helpful


----------



## Stega

I am interested.. How much we talking?
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> I'm thinking about selling my Amperex USA Orange P.Q. 6922s.  I wrote about them in post #2 on page 1 of this thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread#post_7408425).  I'll list 'em on the FS forums soon, but in the meantime, if anybody here wants 'em, let me know.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


stega said:


> I am interested.. How much we talking?


 

 Sent you a PM.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





striation said:


> I have purchased a lot of different low end tubes over a couple of months of owning my "Lyr" and have come to the conclusion to just buy a couple pair of good NOS Amperex Bugle Boys (6DJ8).  Which I just did this morning actually.   They cost $85 bucks a matched pair from the following link ----
> 
> http://www.audiotubes.com
> 
> ...


 
   
  Have you or anyone else try the Orange label version of the Amperex 6DJ8 tubes?


----------



## Striation

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Have you or anyone else try the Orange label version of the Amperex 6DJ8 tubes?


 


  Yes.  You can see my earlier post on page 189 & 190.  The Oranges are a nice sweet sounding tube after you break them in (48 hrs.).  They come in several flavors.  The pair I have are the large A-Frame ones.  Made in Holland.
   
  Stri


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Have you or anyone else try the Orange label version of the Amperex 6DJ8 tubes?


 
   

 In my chain (macbook air > bifrost > lyr > he-6), I preferred these over the matsush*ta 6922. The Amperex sounded more lively with better bass.
   
  ckc


----------



## mafiamike

I just ordered the matsu6922 and this will be my first time tube rolling.I currently have the stock ones and been listening to tunes for about a month now. I am still trying to find the best way to listen to music. I have a brp>MF V-dac II>old rotel preamp Rsp980(good two channel mode)>dt 990's(600ohm)/q701's. I also use itunes >dac>lyr>phones and I find using cd's sound better.

  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Two "relatively" inexpensive tubes that are getting some love with folks are the National/Matsu* 6922 and the Tungsram PCC88s.  They are known for better bass extension and treble detail (some may feel the Tungsrams are too bright at first but they settle down after a while).
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mafiamike said:


> I just ordered the matsu6922 and this will be my first time tube rolling.I currently have the stock ones and been listening to tunes for about a month now. I am still trying to find the best way to listen to music. I have a brp>MF V-dac II>old rotel preamp Rsp980(good two channel mode)>dt 990's(600ohm)/q701's. I also use itunes >dac>lyr>phones and I find using cd's sound better.


 
  I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions of the Matsu tubes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Striation

I just heated up some Mullard CV2492 E88CCs (the dimples from Tubemonger) and I can see it will take a little time for them to burn in.  Pretty bright but I like the upfront vocals I'm hearing accompanied by a small buzz that should settle down.  At least I hope so.  I've never heard this particular noise from my other tubes before.  It's a 60 cycle but has some buzz to go with it.  Very low level.  I'll see if it abates after a night of burn in.
   
  Stri


----------



## Striation

Just for fun I popped my original GE's in last night.  It wasn't very much fun.  Something that sounded so good when I first got it and now,,,, well they suck compared to the many fine tubes we have now.  I won't be complaining about how much money I have in tubes 
   
  Stri


----------



## weitn

Just received a pair of Novib 9 pins socket saver and installed them on Lyr. The socket saver feels solid but the label printing is slightly blurry. There is a word "India" on the top of the black plastic. I assume that they are made in India (at least some parts of it). Initial impression, so far don't hear any difference in SQ.
   
  The socket savers came in a plastic container. Well protected.

   
  Opening the plastic container.

   
  Novib 9 pins socket saver with NOS GE 6BZ7.

   
  Lyr with the raised NOS GE 6BZ7.


----------



## weitn

Love the glow of the vacuum tubes in semi darkness and total darkness. So I took some photos of them with my G11.

 Lyr with 6N1P.

   
  6N1P close up.

   
  6N1P close up.

   
  Very close up look at 6N1P in total darkness. Beautiful glow with the wire mesh. Looks like the Sophia Princess Mesh 300B when glow in the dark. I wonder how many 6N1P owners noticed the wire mesh. Look at how straight the wire mesh are aligned. I wonder how do they (tube designer and/or machine) put on the wire mesh. It looks impossible to do it by hand.

   
  GE 6BZ7 close up.

   
  GE 6BZ7 close up. Looks like a peaceful miniature playground covered in white snow.

   
  GE 6BZ7 close up photo taken in total darkness.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Nice pics, 6n1p looks pretty intense, makes a good night light




Slightly off topic but it made me think of this http://www.mothmuseum.com/mothaudio/nitelitehi.html


----------



## Striation

Tubemonger makes it very clear the socket savers are NOT MADE IN CHINA but I guess India is ok   It reminds me of the 60's when Japan started flooding our markets with the cheapest made stuff on the planet but look where they are now.
  
  Stri
   
  Quote: 





weitn said:


> Just received a pair of Novib 9 pins socket saver and installed them on Lyr. The socket saver feels solid but the label printing is slightly blurry. There is a word "India" on the top of the black plastic. I assume that they are made in India (at least some parts of it). Initial impression, so far don't hear any difference in SQ.
> 
> The socket savers came in a plastic container. Well protected.
> 
> ...


----------



## Striation

I picked up a set of the Tungsrams and fired them up.  They are definitely on the bright side but I really like how forward sounding they are.  My Beyer DT 990's are a good match there but my Sennheisers prefer the warmer sets like the Bugle Boys etc.
   
  Stri
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Two "relatively" inexpensive tubes that are getting some love with folks are the National/Matsu* 6922 and the Tungsram PCC88s.  They are known for better bass extension and treble detail (some may feel the Tungsrams are too bright at first but they settle down after a while).
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





striation said:


> I picked up a set of the Tungsrams and fired them up.  They are definitely on the bright side but I really like how forward sounding they are.  My Beyer DT 990's are a good match there but my Sennheisers prefer the warmer sets like the Bugle Boys etc.
> 
> Stri


 
  The brightness will smooth out after a while.  I haven't tried them with my "fixed" LCD-3s yet, they may still sound bright.  I'll let them burn in a bit more with the updated LCD-3s and post my impressions.
   
  Cheers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## olor1n

Just in case there are HD800 owners here confined to listening from the lowly Lyr while they plot the acquisition of an ECBA - there is fantastic synergy to be found in Amperex Bugle Boys with this headphone. Much better across the board with the HD800 than the much hyped Stuttgart tubes.


----------



## paradoxper

Just throwing this out there: I wish we could get more recommendations/Impressions for tubes with LCD-3's.


----------



## ckc527

Hi,
   
  For those using socket savers, do your socket savers pop out along with the tubes each time you tube roll? 
   
  Thanks,
  ckc


----------



## Nerolucido

IHi, I currently have a pair of Mullards E88CC 1979 Dimple Disc Getter that I've bought on Tubemonger and one of them turned out to be very, very microphonic and humming loudly, at least with sensitive closed cans such as ATH-M50s. I love my Mullards with LCD-2s and Senn 600s but now I'm going to use my Lyr as preamp and the noise have to go. 
Can you, Tube Gurus, please enlighten me on the kinds of tube that are most silent and less prone to microphonics? I'm not concerned about anything else. I'd prefer them to be on the neutral/warm side, but what really matters is the blackest background possible. 

Please, help. 
Thanks


----------



## eddiek997

The Amperex tubes are decent but the win has to goto the Siemens/Halske CCa tubes. I bought these off a fellow head-fi'er a few weeks ago and they really have made a difference. On a side note, to anyone who uses the port savers... I don't see the point in you buying Gold pin tubes when they will be connected via cheap alloy pins on the port saver. Find the best tube, leave it in. Enjoy. Port saved.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

ckc527 said:


> Hi,
> 
> For those using socket savers, do your socket savers pop out along with the tubes each time you tube roll?
> 
> ...




Probably about 50/50



nerolucido said:


> IHi, I currently have a pair of Mullards E88CC 1979 Dimple Disc Getter that I've bought on Tubemonger and one of them turned out to be very, very microphonic and humming loudly, at least with sensitive closed cans such as ATH-M50s. I love my Mullards with LCD-2s and Senn 600s but now I'm going to use my Lyr as preamp and the noise have to go.
> Can you, Tube Gurus, please enlighten me on the kinds of tube that are most silent and less prone to microphonics? I'm not concerned about anything else. I'd prefer them to be on the neutral/warm side, but what really matters is the blackest background possible.
> 
> Please, help.
> Thanks




All of my newly made tubes are silent. I have two noisy sets that were nos, it's more of a gamble with old tubes. Tubemonger seems to pretty fair, if they are noisy to the point you can't enjoy them, they will more than likely change them out for you.


----------



## Lord Soth

Buying tubes from E-bay on my own, I have had very good luck with E188CC or 7308 tubes in the 6DJ8 family of tubes.
  These are specially selected by the manufacturing company for low microphonics and balanced triodes.
 There are always exceptions but the odds are in your favour if you go for such tubes.
  For neutral tubes with a tinge of warmth, I recommend Siemens E188CC tubes with double getter support.
  Try to get the old Siemens & Halske tubes.
   
  Alternatively, you could try purchasing "platinum" or "gold" grade vacuum tubes from Kevin Deal of Upscale Audio
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922/
  Kevin is a very reliable tube dealer.
  His tubes are priced higher than usual but IMHO, the price premium is worth it if you want tubes which are guranteed to be suitable for sensitive cans.
  BTW, Kevin's Siemens 7308 (single halo getter) tubes are made by Philips ECG and are not what I am referring to above.
   
  Quote: 





nerolucido said:


> IHi, I currently have a pair of Mullards E88CC 1979 Dimple Disc Getter that I've bought on Tubemonger and one of them turned out to be very, very microphonic and humming loudly, at least with sensitive closed cans such as ATH-M50s. I love my Mullards with LCD-2s and Senn 600s but now I'm going to use my Lyr as preamp and the noise have to go.
> Can you, Tube Gurus, please enlighten me on the kinds of tube that are most silent and less prone to microphonics? I'm not concerned about anything else. I'd prefer them to be on the neutral/warm side, but what really matters is the blackest background possible.
> Please, help.
> Thanks


----------



## mikek200

"For those using socket savers, do your socket savers pop out along with the tubes each time you tube roll? .....
   
   
Short answer......NO ..!!!!
   
On more than one occasion,I had a hell of a time getting it out of the amp   .
   
Recently,I bought a pair of these..Brass Rings..& Jesse is a pleasure to deal with.
  
     http://www.audiotubes.com/damper.htm
   
  Seem to work better than the Tubemonger socket savers...looks better too.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Eddie I like my s&h cca's but I guess I'm too fickle. I roll different tubes for different genres or depending on the headphone I'm using.


I'm going to throw this out there as well, does anyone else do direct comparisons by leaving one tube in a socket, when switching pairs? Basically listening to two different tubes at The same time


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Probably about 50/50


 
   
  Does it seem to loosen up after tube rolling for awhile? So far I've only rolled in the stock GE tubes into the savers and they are super tight even after 5 - 6 repeated pulls.
   
  ckc


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

ckc527 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 Huh maybe it does loosen up some, it feels to me like the connection between the tube and the socket saver is tighter. For instance when the tube and the SS are connected and I push them into the Lyr socket they lean which ever I rock them in


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Huh maybe it does loosen up some, it feels to me like the connection between the tube and the socket saver is tighter. For instance when the tube and the SS are connected and I push them into the Lyr socket they lean which ever I rock them in


 


  I noticed the exact same thing. Mine are so tight that after pulling the tubes out of the socket savers several times, a couple of the pins on my stock GE tubes are bent slightly. I can't seem to pull the tube out of the SS straight out, have to rock it back and forth multiple times for the SS to release the tube. Just wondering if this is normal or I should contact Tubemonger about it.
   
  Anyone else have this problem?
   
  Thanks,
  ckc


----------



## mikek200

When I used the tubemonger SS's,after the tube has cooled..I gently full it back & forth with slight upward pressure
   most of the time I use a surgical  glove.......it gives  a better grip.
   
  But with the brass ring Socket Saver..I dont need to do that.


----------



## sridhar3

I'd try putting some Caig DeoxIT on the tube pins before putting them in the socket savers.  Not an excessive amount, just a thin coating.


----------



## Nerolucido

Thank you Lord Soth...but I'd rather not test my luck on ebay, because when I've learned the hard way what is the risk involved in buying tubes from private sellers. I'm afraid E188CCs are a bit beyond my reach... especially when you have to buy them in Europe. 
Is there any other kind of tube that is less microphonic and more silent than E88CC? I mean, what about the 6BZ7 family? I'm more concerned about the hum, though since I can always use dampeners for microphonics
On the other hand, I really dig the tube dealer you've made me discover, then again, customs are unforgiving these days so...I'll have to think hard before I pull the trigger on those platinum tubes.



lord soth said:


> Buying tubes from E-bay on my own, I have had very good luck with E188CC or 7308 tubes in the 6DJ8 family of tubes.
> These are specially selected by the manufacturing company for low microphonics and balanced triodes.
> Alternatively, you could try purchasing "platinum" or "gold" grade vacuum tubes from Kevin Deal of Upscale Audio
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922/


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

ckc527 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'll try to clarify, when the SS and tube are combined its a stronger connection than the bottom connection SS and Lyr. For example the joint at the bottom can lean pretty easily, top joint (tube+SS) does not. Both connections I have to gently rock out, neither has ever bent my tube's pins


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Mikek, does that brass ring rub off the tubes label?


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Hi,
> 
> For those using socket savers, do your socket savers pop out along with the tubes each time you tube roll?
> 
> ...


 

 Yes and no, depending on tubes. When I use the SS with GE 6BZ7, the SS pop out along with the tubes when I change the tubes. When I use the SS with 6N1P, the SS does not pop out. The SS stayed inside Lyr. I hope the SS will loosen up after some time. By right, they should.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Mikek, does that brass ring rub off the tubes label?


 
  So far they dont..But I put mine lightly, right on top of the tube...I do not push it down,maybe I have about 1/4 from the  top of the ring ,to the top of the tube.
  Before I actually use the ring,I check to see that it will NOT slide all the way down into the body of the Lyr
  I'm only using the SS's,when I have a shorter sized tube,and almost never,on a tube that has gold pins...
   
  I'm a new newbie on all this stuff..did manage to do threw about $800.00 on various tubes{& more coming-Mullards } in the last 4 weeks..don't ask me how??guess I'm officially a tube addict in training??


----------



## Chris_Himself

I use my fingers, no glove, I just wiggle 'em out. Probably been through 5-6 swaps, no difference. I just wipe 'em down with an eyeglass cleaning cloth and alcohol when im done.
   
  These are tough amps guys, I doubt something like the socket would fail, and even if it did, I'm sure Schiit would help us out


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> I noticed the exact same thing. Mine are so tight that after pulling the tubes out of the socket savers several times, a couple of the pins on my stock GE tubes are bent slightly. I can't seem to pull the tube out of the SS straight out, have to rock it back and forth multiple times for the SS to release the tube. Just wondering if this is normal or I should contact Tubemonger about it.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem?
> 
> ...


 

 I don't have the issue with bending pin. I rock it back and forth multiple times (probably 10 times) and tube come right off. Try not to rock the tube too hard.


----------



## paradoxper

If memory serves me correct, Jason has said that's how you pull tubes out, by rocking them back and forth. If you're bending pins you may be applying too much pressure. As others have said, I to have no problems with pulling tubes out.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> So far they dont..But I put mine lightly, right on top of the tube...I do not push it down,maybe I have about 1/4 from the  top of the ring ,to the top of the tube.
> Before I actually use the ring,I check to see that it will NOT slide all the way down into the body of the Lyr
> I'm only using the SS's,when I have a shorter sized tube,and almost never,on a tube that has gold pins...
> 
> *I'm a new newbie on all this stuff..did manage to do threw about $800.00 on various tubes{& more coming-Mullards } in the last 4 weeks..don't ask me how??guess I'm officially a tube addict in training??*


 
  When you hit $2500+ in less than six months, you'll be running with the big dogs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers from a big dog! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Shopan

I just assembled my lyr, is it normal to have normal volume at 2-3 o'clock?  I am using the LCD-3.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

shopan said:


> I just assembled my lyr, is it normal to have normal volume at 2-3 o'clock?  I am using the LCD-3.




I have lcd2s (also 50ohms) and above 11oclock is verging on too loud, 3 would be unbearable. Make sure your source is all the way up (dac,computer,etc) 
Recenly tried the k1000 on my setup and 3-4oclock was a good volume for them however


----------



## Shopan

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I have lcd2s (also 50ohms) and above 11oclock is verging on too loud, 3 would be unbearable. Make sure your source is all the way up (dac,computer,etc)
> Recenly tried the k1000 on my setup and 3-4oclock was a good volume for them however


 

  
  Weird, my source is set at 100% volume.  I guess I have no choice but to set it at 2-3, anything lower is too low for me.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

shopan said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I dunno, unlikely but maybe the audio files were low volume.

Ha I just noticed the panther chameleon in your avatar


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> When you hit $2500+ in less than six months, you'll be running with the big dogs!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I for one am happy to let YOU and Mrscary/Misterrogers pave the way. Save me some monies. You're all nuts!!!


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I for one am happy to let YOU and Mrscary/Misterrogers pave the way. Save me some monies. You're all nuts!!!


 

 HK,
  So your in the same league as Mr. Scary..I think he told me ,he was over the 3k's mark
  I just bought a beautiful Lorenz tube from him,at a very fair price....it is by far ,my best tube
  He & Misterrogers are the best.
   
  Paradoxper..why are we nuts?...your probably right up there with us?
  And I thought photography was a killer hobby....???.childs play compared to this!!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> HK,
> So your in the same league as Mr. Scary..I think he told me ,he was over the 3k's mark
> I just bought a beautiful Lorenz tube from him,at a very fair price....it is by far ,my best tube
> He & Misterrogers are the best.
> ...


 

  
  I also have tubes from Mrscary and HK, some CCa's and Lorenz. They are by far my best tubes.
   
  No, no, no, they are the nutty ones. "WE" are just outside or below them. Safely, that is.


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> I'd try putting some Caig DeoxIT on the tube pins before putting them in the socket savers.  Not an excessive amount, just a thin coating.


 

 Thanks, I'll look into that. 
   
  ckc


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Yes and no, depending on tubes. When I use the SS with GE 6BZ7, the SS pop out along with the tubes when I change the tubes. When I use the SS with 6N1P, the SS does not pop out. The SS stayed inside Lyr. I hope the SS will loosen up after some time. By right, they should.


 


  Good info, thanks. I'll have to try the SS with my other tubes later.
   
  ckc


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mafiamike said:


> I just ordered the matsu6922 and this will be my first time tube rolling.I currently have the stock ones and been listening to tunes for about a month now. I am still trying to find the best way to listen to music. I have a brp>MF V-dac II>old rotel preamp Rsp980(good two channel mode)>dt 990's(600ohm)/q701's. I also use itunes >dac>lyr>phones and I find using cd's sound better.


 

  
  Of the two the PCC88 Tungstram sound much better atleast with Planar headphones you may have different results with the Beyer...


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I also have tubes from Mrscary and HK, some CCa's and Lorenz. They are by far my best tubes.
> 
> No, no, no, they are the nutty ones. "WE" are just outside or below them. Safely, that is.


 


  Below sounds just about right  haha


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> When you hit $2500+ in less than six months, you'll be running with the big dogs!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yep Hk you said it not much else one can say the good ole days... you know I think I have figured out a spell to wake the dead to make some more Lorenz Sttugarts for us just give me a few weeks have to invoke several demons of various names..


----------



## mikek200

"When I use the SS with 6N1P, the SS does not pop out"
 And ,how do you get it out of the Lyr???


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mikek200 said:


> "When I use the SS with 6N1P, the SS does not pop out"
> And ,how do you get it out of the Lyr???





plug in a tube that will pull it out


----------



## sjay

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions of the Matsu tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 IMHO they are a step up from the stock tubes as far as my ears can tell......i only have 10 hours on them but i think they were a good buy thus far....


----------



## Lord Soth

Dear Nerolucido,
   
  Normally if one is actively looking for preamp tubes, it is best to contact a reliable tube dealer with such a specific request. 
   
  Since you are in Europe, I can recommend Watford Valves. (http://www.watfordvalves.com/home.asp)
  He is a very reliable Tube, or rather "Valve"(*) dealer based in the UK.
  You can contact Derek Rocco at the following e-mail address sales@watfordvalves.com 
  
  What makes Watford Valves so reliable is that their valves are put through many torture tests before they are sold!
   
  They also sell valves to many famous Rock bands.
   
  (*) The British are very particular about their English. LOL 
  They are also very selective about whether or not they belong to the EU. ha ha 
   
  Sorry I am not familiar with any of the 6BZ7 family.
   
  Wish you the best in your tube hunt!
   
  Quote: 





nerolucido said:


> Thank you Lord Soth...but I'd rather not test my luck on ebay, because when I've learned the hard way what is the risk involved in buying tubes from private sellers. I'm afraid E188CCs are a bit beyond my reach... especially when you have to buy them in Europe.
> Is there any other kind of tube that is less microphonic and more silent than E88CC? I mean, what about the 6BZ7 family? I'm more concerned about the hum, though since I can always use dampeners for microphonics
> On the other hand, I really dig the tube dealer you've made me discover, then again, customs are unforgiving these days so...I'll have to think hard before I pull the trigger on those platinum tubes.


----------



## Nerolucido

Thank you very much LordSoth, I'm going to contact them.

And I really dig your avatar! 




lord soth said:


> Dear Nerolucido,
> (...)
> Wish you the best in your tube hunt!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mrscary said:


> Yep Hk you said it not much else one can say the good ole days... you know I think I have figured out a spell to wake the dead to make some more Lorenz Sttugarts for us just give me a few weeks have to invoke several demons of various names..


 
  I'll start the paperwork for my Home Equity Loan... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## mac336

Hey guys, I am going to pick up a lyr soon and was wondering on what the consensus was as to which tubes pair the best with an HE-500.  Any input would be greatly appreciated


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> Hey guys, I am going to pick up a lyr soon and was wondering on what the consensus was as to which tubes pair the best with an HE-500.  Any input would be greatly appreciated


 


  Siemens CCa, Valvo red label, Lorenz - They seem to be the best.
   
  The Amperex USN 7308's are very good too.
   
  I went through this recently and thanks to some great, friendly advice (Mr Scary to name but one) got the answer to the very same question....

 I now have the CCa's in my amp and am very happy with them. I also have the HE500's


----------



## VALIENTE

Hello guys, Valiente here, may I ask too what tubes is best for K701 or 702? Any input will be appreciated. Thank you!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

valiente said:


> Hello guys, Valiente here, may I ask too what tubes is best for K701 or 702? Any input will be appreciated. Thank you!




The tubes that I look for with my k701 balance it out a bit, so if you find the 701 to be detailed and bright(like me) a warm tube with relaxed highs might compliment it well. Such tubes that i have found to do this are the mullards and amperex orange globe 6dj8. Also if you have the $ an amperex 7308 would be a good choice. This is just my opinion and you might be looking for a whole different sound signature. Hope this helps


----------



## Lord Soth

Each brand of tube has a certain sonic signature.
   
  What is "best" will always be subjective.
   
  Perhaps if you state what genre of music you prefer, someone out here could give you a hand.
   
  Quote: 





valiente said:


> Hello guys, Valiente here, may I ask too what tubes is best for K701 or 702? Any input will be appreciated. Thank you!


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Each brand of tube has a certain sonic signature.
> 
> What is "best" will always be subjective.
> 
> Perhaps if you state what genre of music you prefer, someone out here could give you a hand.


 
  To an extent, I completely agree but the fact is that some tubes are just plain inferior to others. After weeding out the junk, it's possible to really refine which tube works the best to your musical tastes combined with your equipment. 
  The tube rolling rollercoaster is a pleasure for some, nauseatingly expensive waste for others.
   
  The good news is that the tubes used in the Lyr are very popular, so, even if you buy a set you don't like you can usually sell for what you paid (as long as you didn't pay too much in the first place.)


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


valiente said:


> Hello guys, Valiente here, may I ask too what tubes is best for K701 or 702? Any input will be appreciated. Thank you!


 

 Quote:


lord soth said:


> Perhaps if you state what genre of music you prefer, someone out here could give you a hand.


 
   
  A budget would help too.


----------



## mikek200

" e good news is that the tubes used in the Lyr are very popular, so, even if you buy a set you don't like you can usually sell for what you paid (as long as you didn't pay too much in the first place." ...or,you can send them back ,as with this
seller 
          http://stores.ebay.com/TUBEHUNTER/_i.html?_fsub=3293609015
   
  I've ordered a few tubes from him..and he's a pleasure to deal with.


----------



## steel108

Got through reading a pages of this thread and thought I would just ask:
   
  Received the Lyr; music sounds better, but I am losing that detail I had with the M1HPA when paired with the HD800. 
   
  Track 7 of Open Your Ears, the handclaps just aren't as detailed/lifelike. 
   
  I want the rich sound of the Lyr, but also the exacting detail of the M1HPA. Would changes tubes help? 
   
  I am using the M1DAC right now and will probably try out the Bifrost soon if that makes a difference.


----------



## olor1n

The Bifrost is excellent with the HD800. The Lyr is definitely the bottleneck in my current chain but any issue with the sound going through to the HD800 is somewhat alleviated with the right tubes. The Amperex Bugle Boys are it.
   
  It's astounding how the HD800 highlights the different qualities of the tubes I have on hand. I've not rolled through thousands of dollars worth of tubes like others, but the Bugles at the end of my chain help to produce the most transparent, musical and convincing sound. There isn't a glaring flaw that makes me think of the next upgrade. In fact it makes me question my plans to upgrade.


----------



## Shopan

This maybe a stupid question, it is normal to leave the headphone plugged in the amp after it is not being used and turned off?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

shopan said:


> This maybe a stupid question, it is normal to leave the headphone plugged in the amp after it is not being used and turned off?




Yeah seems perfectly normal


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

olor1n said:


> The Bifrost is excellent with the HD800. The Lyr is definitely the bottleneck in my current chain but any issue with the sound going through to the HD800 is somewhat alleviated with the right tubes. The Amperex Bugle Boys are it.
> 
> It's astounding how the HD800 highlights the different qualities of the tubes I have on hand. I've not rolled through thousands of dollars worth of tubes like others, but the Bugles at the end of my chain help to produce the most transparent, musical and convincing sound. There isn't a glaring flaw that makes me think of the next upgrade. In fact it makes me question my plans to upgrade.




Do you like them with the lcd2 as well?


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


olor1n said:


> The Bifrost is excellent with the HD800. The Lyr is definitely the bottleneck in my current chain but any issue with the sound going through to the HD800 is somewhat alleviated with the right tubes. The Amperex Bugle Boys are it.


 

 The S&H CCa or the Lorenz would probably sound amazing with the HD800.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *dailydoseofdaly* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [...]
> 
> Do you like them with the lcd2 as well?


 


  Yeah but I find the Orange Globes or Stuttgarts a better match for the rev.2.

  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> olor1n said:
> ...


 
   
   
  I don't like the Lorenz as much. The vocals with the Stuttgarts sound slightly recessed compared to the Bugles with the HD800, and the upper registers aren't as smooth or extended. There's more space between elements with the Bugles, better imaging as a result and wider dynamic range.


----------



## Kremer930

olor1n said:


> The Bifrost is excellent with the HD800. The Lyr is definitely the bottleneck in my current chain but any issue with the sound going through to the HD800 is somewhat alleviated with the right tubes. The Amperex Bugle Boys are it.
> 
> It's astounding how the HD800 highlights the different qualities of the tubes I have on hand. I've not rolled through thousands of dollars worth of tubes like others, but the Bugles at the end of my chain help to produce the most transparent, musical and convincing sound. There isn't a glaring flaw that makes me think of the next upgrade. In fact it makes me question my plans to upgrade.




Don't you just hate that when you like your rig so much that you question the need to upgrade further! I am like that with my portable rig at present and am wondering why I would want to buy a new portable amp. I have almost contemplated just spending the spare coin on the Schiit intermediate amp and dac and use that as my bedroom system instead of the Lyr and bifrost.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


kremer930 said:


> ...you question the need to upgrade further


 

 I can safely say I have never experienced this.


----------



## sjay

can someone please confirm if
 Amperex 7308 JAN PQ White Label, 1966, Gold pins   
  are ok to run in a Lyr?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

sjay said:


> can someone please confirm if
> Amperex 7308 JAN PQ White Label, 1966, Gold pins
> are ok to run in a Lyr?




Yeah those are a premium version of 6922, run 'em


----------



## sjay

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Yeah those are a premium version of 6922, run 'em


 
  what is a fair price for them?
   
  thanks.


----------



## songmic

I paid about $150 (not including shipping) for a pair of Amperex 7308 Holland SQ gold pins (relabeled as Gold Aero 7308's) from Misterrogers. Originally they were for sale a tad more expensive.
  
  Quote: 





sjay said:


> what is a fair price for them?
> 
> thanks.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

sjay said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Looks like upscale is selling them for 150 a pair as well
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Amperex-7308-vintage-gold-pin%21.html


----------



## AppleDappleman

Anyone know which stock tubes are best with the HD650?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Anyone know which stock tubes are best with the HD650?


 


  If you're talking about from Schiit then the GE's IMO


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Looks like upscale is selling them for 150 a pair as well
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Amperex-7308-vintage-gold-pin%21.html


 


  Just picked up a pair from them, *Platinum grade, cryo added.*
   
  If I could get Harry Potter to enchant them, would have got that as well, LOL.
   
  Also, got a pair of the *Tungsram 6922 as well.*


----------



## weitn

I use my 6BZ7 to get them out.
  Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> "When I use the SS with 6N1P, the SS does not pop out"
> And ,how do you get it out of the Lyr???


----------



## songmic

Same here lol
  
  Quote: 





weitn said:


> I use my 6BZ7 to get them out.


----------



## JoeyRusso

I just bought a few pairs of Amperex tubes to try.. A pair of '69 A getter Orange globes and a pair of '64 Bugle boy O getters... I'm looking forward to hearing what they bring to the table...


----------



## mikek200

"Same here lol
   
The reason why I asked ,is because on a few occasions, the SS partial came out,&,ended up going side ways..rolling around inside the Lyr
   
Had to use a pair of needle nose pliers to get them out......HaHa...??
   
   
Mike


----------



## mikek200

" A pair of '69 A getter Orange globes "
   
They give good strong bass,and a nice warm mid section.,much better than the GE's that came with Lyr...imho.
   
Another one ,you might want to try is the PQ version,very ,very close,but has just a bit more detail..at least on my LCD's.
   
Haven't tried the BugleBoys....yet
   
   
 Hope this helps,
Mike


----------



## JoeyRusso

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> " A pair of '69 A getter Orange globes "
> 
> They give good strong bass,and a nice warm mid section.,much better than the GE's that came with Lyr...imho.
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks Mike, that sounds good to me.  I've only rolled in some Matsu's and RCA's at this point and the RCA's were surprisingly better than the GE's and the Matsu's to me.  I expected more from the Matsu's, but they weren't as big an upgrade as I was hoping for.  The RCA's had a much blacker background and really had more of a 3D effect than the Matsu's.  I've only begun to dabble in rolling, but it's definitely been fun.  I'm sticking to my budget (so far) and I'll keep searching for the best bang for the buck. The LCD 2's or HE500's are in my future, so the tube rolling budget isn't going to expand anytime soon.


----------



## mikek200

Sticking to your budget..thats what I used to say....haa..its an addiction..but great fun
  A lot of the guys on this forum are extremely helpful,and some of the more senior members can give you excellent info
   
  You might want o look here:
   http://vintageaudiotubes.com/
   
  He is great,I have bought some of my best tubes from him,and he is very fair on price..a pleasure to deal with.
   
  I'm new at this also,bought my first pair of headphones in Jan.2012...Hd 598's.
   
  Here is another website you should look at closely..it is my bible,& I refer back to it, constantly:
     http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
   
  Enjoy,
  Mike


----------



## JoeyRusso

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Sticking to your budget..thats what I used to say....haa..its an addiction..but great fun
> A lot of the guys on this forum are extremely helpful,and some of the more senior members can give you excellent info
> 
> You might want o look here:
> ...


 


 both sites are already favorites


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





joeyrusso said:


> Thanks Mike, that sounds good to me.  I've only rolled in some Matsu's and RCA's at this point and the RCA's were surprisingly better than the GE's and the Matsu's to me.  I expected more from the Matsu's, but they weren't as big an upgrade as I was hoping for.  The RCA's had a much blacker background and really had more of a 3D effect than the Matsu's.  I've only begun to dabble in rolling, but it's definitely been fun.  I'm sticking to my budget (so far) and I'll keep searching for the best bang for the buck. The LCD 2's or HE500's are in my future, so the tube rolling budget isn't going to expand anytime soon.


 



 Joey, it sounds like you and I are hearing the same things in those RCA 6BQ7As, glad you are enjoying them. I'm sure its far from the best tube out there, but I was also surprised at how good they were for little $$$.


----------



## JoeyRusso

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Joey, it sounds like you and I are hearing the same things in those RCA 6BQ7As, glad you are enjoying them. I'm sure its far from the best tube out there, but I was also surprised at how good they were for little $$$.


 


 They were quite the surprise.  I'm not sure who to thank for the find (you or John or someone else), but my wallet and my ears thank you.  I liked them so much I bought a few back up pairs.  I'll probably never buy or hear the best out there, but I'm quite happy with my low budget upgrades/changes so far.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


joeyrusso said:


> They were quite the surprise.  I'm not sure who to thank for the find (you or John or someone else), but my wallet and my ears thank you.  I liked them so much I bought a few back up pairs.  I'll probably never buy or hear the best out there, _*but I'm quite happy*_ with my low budget upgrades/changes so far.


 
  That's all that matters!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Don't let anyone tell you any different...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## mikek200

..Does anyone  here,have any experience with the "BugleBoys" tubes
  Specifically these:
   
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1966-O-GETTER-MATCHED-PAIR-6922-TONE0Q-/320886811986?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ab6582d52#ht_2647wt_1314
   
  They are enroute..
   
  Any info would be appreciated..Tnx,
  Mike


----------



## JoeyRusso

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> ..Does anyone  here,have any experience with the "BugleBoys" tubes
> Specifically these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1966-O-GETTER-MATCHED-PAIR-6922-TONE0Q-/320886811986?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ab6582d52#ht_2647wt_1314
> ...


 
   
  Mike, I just received a similar pair of those today (1964's) and a set of Orange Globes.  Same seller as well.  I don't want to say too much, other than I like the Orange Globes a bit more than the Bugle boys so far.  The soundstage seemed to shrink with the Bugle Boys.  Separation and clarity seemed to suffer.  Maybe it's just my pair.  Hopefully you'll have better luck.  Let me know if it's my pair once you have a chance to listen to yours.
   
  Joey


----------



## mikek200

Ok,when I get them..I'll let you know..
   
  Sorry about your set of BB's,...If i were you ,I'd contact the seller,and tell him your impressions-maybe you got a bad set,he's really good about that.
  I did that with a pair of old Mullards...
  Will see what he sends me to replace them....?????


----------



## JoeyRusso

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Ok,when I get them..I'll let you know..
> 
> Sorry about your set of BB's,...If i were you ,I'd contact the seller,and tell him your impressions-maybe you got a bad set,he's really good about that.
> I did that with a pair of old Mullards...
> Will see what he sends me to replace them....?????


 
   
  Yeah, I'm going to have to do that, I also notice a low, almost rumbling hum that I've never heard with any of my other tubes.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





joeyrusso said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Until recently I also liked the Orange Globes (A-frames) more than the Bugles. With the HD650 and LCD-2 I found the OG's more involving, with more pronounced low end, lush mids and a forward and seemingly more dynamic presentation. With these cans the Bugles seemed too polite for my liking, although I did feel the overall balance was very good. Enter the HD800 and the Bugles suddenly reveal themselves significantly better in terms of clarity, imaging and smoothness. Dynamics are now stark and convincing, rather than being in your face at all times. Vocals are well placed, very well defined and gone is the slight dryness apparent on the OG's with the HD800. I have Lorenz Stuttgart tubes that sound similar, though the Bugles win out in vocal transparency and imaging 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  What you hear is the sum of all your components. The OG's accentuate the coloured signatures of the HD650 and LCD-2, making for a fun and engaging presentation. The Bugles are a clear window when you peer into the music with something as transparent and refined as the HD800. Pick your poison.


----------



## JoeyRusso

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Until recently I also liked the Orange Globes (A-frames) more than the Bugles. With the HD650 and LCD-2 I found the OG's more involving, with more pronounced low end, lush mids and a forward and seemingly more dynamic presentation. With these cans the Bugles seemed too polite for my liking, although I did feel the overall balance was very good. Enter the HD800 and the Bugles suddenly reveal themselves significantly better in terms of clarity, imaging and smoothness. Dynamics are now stark and convincing, rather than being in your face at all times. Vocals are well placed, very well defined and gone is the slight dryness apparent on the OG's with the HD800. I have Lorenz Stuttgart tubes that sound similar, though the Bugles win out in vocal transparency and imaging
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well then I look forward to hearing my replacement pair, because there is something definitely wrong with the pair I have.


----------



## mikek200

Oddly enough ,after I sent my post..I got delivery of 2 sets of tubes:
   
  1. Mullard CV2492
  2. BugleBoys.
  I'm listening the cv2492 now...wow,absolutely beautiful..warm,detailed & clear
  I'll test out he BB's later tonight.
  Questio,OLorln..
  The BB's I just got seem to be in a clear type glass tube,or maybe they are NOS?
  The BB logo is on the glass,& it says made in Holland..6DJ8...ecc88...
   
  Joey..make note...one of the pins is bent on my BB's...I'd send back those BB's he sent you??
   
   
   
  Olorln:
  I'm glad your BB's are having good SQ now,but,you did upgrade to one of the most expensive headphones made.,unless the hd800 are a totally different type of headphone from the lcd's & hd650's?
  Correct me ,if I'm wrong on this,please.
   
  Mike


----------



## JoeyRusso

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Oddly enough ,after I sent my post..I got delivery of 2 sets of tubes:
> 
> 1. Mullard CV2492
> 2. BugleBoys.
> ...


 
   
  No Mike, none of the pins are bent, I've already sent a message to the seller, these will be going back.  I hope yours sound the way *olor1n* describes them.  I look forward to hearing a different pair for sure.


----------



## mikek200

No,One of the pins on MY BB's was bent..
  I'm listening to them now.
 Joey,open up the link I sent you on my BB's..{see above.}..scroll down, and see if the tech details match  the ones he sent you..maybe mine are a different amperex  BB?
  If your hearing hums/noise/crackling...something is wrong.
   
  I have them in for about an hour,in my music selection ,I keep 5 songs,that I listen to when I get new tubes....acoustic guitar,jazz,classical ,some opera with male/female singers..all are coming out just fine..keep in mind,I'm a newbie at this..so,take this with a grain of salt
  My BB's sound great,even a little better than my Amperex PQ's...strong mids,strong bass,clear overall sound,with excellent detail.
   
  I'd go over his website again..he has about 3 different types of Amperx Bugleboys..all varying in price/age.
  Don't worry,he will make things right on your tubes....
   
  Mike


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> ..Does anyone  here,have any experience with the "BugleBoys" tubes
> Specifically these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1966-O-GETTER-MATCHED-PAIR-6922-TONE0Q-/320886811986?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ab6582d52#ht_2647wt_1314
> ...


 
   
  I have a pair of the BB with D getter from 1959 and several pairs of BB with Large O getter from 1960. They both sound very good in my chain (mb air > bifrost > Lyr > HE-500/HE-6). Female jazz vocals sound silky smooth and warm. I prefer these over my Orange Globe with small O getter from 1967 and A frame from 1970. To me, the older they are, the better they sound.
   
  ckc


----------



## weitn

All the talks about BB made me ordered a pair of Amperex Bugleboy rare large halo getter (made in Holland). Can't wait for them to arrive.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Can someone inform me on how the heck to order from TubeWorld? Is there any other cheaper site cause the shipping is really expensive from there. 

 I have the stock JJ tubes but I would like to hear the GE 6BZ7 eventually. Anyone have any impressions of the JJ tubes compared to the 6BZ7?



*Edit: *If anyone is selling the GE 6BZ7 for cheap I would gladly take it off your hands


----------



## mac336

is it common for tubes to have a low noise floor?
   
  With my GE tubes I hear noise at around 1 o'clock
  valvo around 11
   
  wondering if I have bad/old tubes or if this is something I have to put up with


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> is it common for tubes to have a low noise floor?
> 
> With my GE tubes I hear noise at around 1 o'clock
> valvo around 11
> ...


 
   

 Tubes all of them are microphonic now i have no noise with any of my tubes and I have alot so Im not sure.. typically if you are getting noise the tubes are either going south or they are just microphoic more than other tubes...
  nothing you can do about it.. also ... If the Vavlo's are vintage which I know they are then yes they could be microphic etc never know with vintage tubes or any tube they are just physical items they can go in 100 hours I have had a few that went it less than 30 hours


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Can someone inform me on how the heck to order from TubeWorld? Is there any other cheaper site cause the shipping is really expensive from there.
> 
> I have the stock JJ tubes but I would like to hear the GE 6BZ7 eventually. Anyone have any impressions of the JJ tubes compared to the 6BZ7?
> 
> ...


 
   

 Yeah if you looked though the thread umm yeah the JJ's suck arse man your best bet is to get the GE's then you will want to improve on those.. I have tons of GE's laying around but sorry man it aint worth my time to ship them..
  just grab a set from Schiit..for 20.00 they are worth the upgrade...then just throw the JJ's into your street open your door and toss them as high as you can


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Can someone inform me on how the heck to order from TubeWorld? Is there any other cheaper site cause the shipping is really expensive from there.
> 
> I have the stock JJ tubes but I would like to hear the GE 6BZ7 eventually. Anyone have any impressions of the JJ tubes compared to the 6BZ7?
> 
> ...


 
   

 Dude don't order from
 Tubeworld ever he is a great resource for info but he is the highest prices on the Internet period... just order the GE's from Schiit they are 20.00... or go ton ebay if they have any and get them cheaper..


----------



## paradoxper

If I get the time I'll send you my GE tubes. Just PM me your info


----------



## mac336

what is the safest, cheapest site for buying tubes?
   
  and how risky is buying off ebay?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> what is the safest, cheapest site for buying tubes?
> 
> and how risky is buying off ebay?


 
   
  Upscaleaudio,Tubemonger,AudiogoN, fellow Head-Fier's. Ebay won't be as risky as long as you do your research into the tubes a given seller has for sale.
  I have found you can usually ask around for recommendations to get good, reliable sellers. But I suppose there's always a risk, you never know when a tube can burn out on you.


----------



## mikek200

Here is what I do:
   
  first find the item you are looking for
  then check the sellers ratings..if any negative feedback at all..keep looking.
  Then send the link to one of the more learned members/a friend on Head-fi........ask him to check it out.
   
  Use common sense..
   
  The only bad experience I had was once,& it was resolved by e-bay quickly.
  I do 90% of buying & selling via e-bay,since 2004


----------



## rubenpp

Just got a Schiit Lyr (from the classifieds)  w/ stock tubes to use with my LCD-2. I'm glad i finally got an amp that can drive the LCD-2. The previous owner included some Amperex tubes,  Will be trying them out tonight


----------



## mac336

How old is your lyr?
   
  make sure your headphones aren't plugged in when turning the lyr on/off. 
   
  My model is from last year and there is a high voltage given when turning the amp on/off.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> How old is your lyr?
> 
> make sure your headphones aren't plugged in when turning the lyr on/off.
> 
> My model is from last year and there is a high voltage given when turning the amp on/off.


 
   
  Wouldn't he know by waiting for pause/relay. Or am I mistaken on that being the fix?


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Wouldn't he know by waiting for pause/relay. Or am I mistaken on that being the fix?


 
   
  what is the pause/relay?
   
  when I first turned on the lyr, I got a pretty loud popping noise about 30 seconds in.  scared it damaged my headpohones.  I not no longer plug in my headpohones until the lyr has been on for a good minute or 2


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> what is the pause/relay?
> 
> when I first turned on the lyr, I got a pretty loud popping noise about 30 seconds in.  scared it damaged my headpohones.  I not no longer plug in my headpohones until the lyr has been on for a good minute or


 
   
   
  About Lyr FAQ
  Wait, you mean my headphones might blow up?
   
  Dood, 6 watts is more than enough to let the magic smoke out of most headphones. Lyr packs a serious punch, and we expect that you’re grown-up enough to use it with respect. Lyr has a 20-second slow-start and fast-acting turnoff output muting relay, but we still recommend caution, especially if you’re tube-rolling. We will not be responsible for headphones damaged by Lyr.
   
   
  This is what was supposed to be fixed in the Lyr. Evidently some never sent theirs back for the fix.


----------



## rubenpp

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> How old is your lyr?
> 
> make sure your headphones aren't plugged in when turning the lyr on/off.
> 
> My model is from last year and there is a high voltage given when turning the amp on/off.


 
   
  I'm not sure how do check.
   
  Thanks for the tip!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Huh my Lyr is #523, I wonder if it is new enough for the relay? hadn't heard there was a change


----------



## SeaHawk

There is a physical, mechanical, audible click from the unit itself after about 20 seconds of being powered.  Can't miss it if it's there! 
   
  If no click, no relay.
   
  In either case, I still don't plug my headphones in for a while to ensure the tubes get nice and toasty first.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Huh my Lyr is #523, I wonder if it is new enough for the relay? hadn't heard there was a change


 
  There's a thread on it.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/562736/what-causes-this-amp-related
   
   
  Edit: Page 5 Jason addresses the potential problems and solution. Page 8 you'll see it's not just exclusive to the Asgard, but the Lyr as well. Finally page 10 Jason again addresses the problem and the relay mute fix. 
   
  Just because Schiit put in a safety relay doesn't mean you should rely on it. Turn the volume knob to 0 then turn on/plug in/ and vice versa volume knob 0 then unplug/turn off.
   
   
  Hope this helps some of you out.


----------



## Kremer930

I wouldn't get worried about the Lyrnturn on spike. Regardless of what amp you use good headphone procedures would be to turn the volume to zero. Turn on the unit. Then plug in your cans. For turning off the process is reversed. Stop your source. Volume to zero. Unplug cans. Then power off. 

The spike was only when turning on or off from what I have read. 

The relay mutes any power for the first 20 seconds so that any initial shunt is not delivered to the cans. The click that happens does not send a spike. 

When listening to a tube amp you should always wait at least a few minutes for the tubes to warm up before listening to preserve tube life. 

I have the original non relayed Lyr and have never had any issues and have never remotely considered having the relay installed. 

As I said before, correct start up procedures will have you protected. 

Check with Jason if you are unsure. 

As for the comment about play and pausing. That is just crazy. No chance of any problems there unless you are running a second rate source that sends a spike to be amplified. 

Cheers


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Thanks for the thread must have missed it. I don't have the relay apparently. I havent ran into problems though, I'll just keep an eye on the volume knob.


----------



## paradoxper

This was just for people wondering if there was even a problem, clearly there was. Most of us knew about it but not all. And to reiterate not to use the relay as a careless safety.


----------



## Striation

Another good source for high end tubes is:
   
  http://www.audiotubes.com/
   
  I'm sure a lot of you have seen Brent's inventory.  His service is great and very reliable.  Not necessarily the cheapest but his matching is very good and worth it to me.  Got some Bugle Boys from him for a good price and now I'm burning in my new HE-500s.
   
  Cheers.
  Stri


----------



## jfrocke

Is it really common practice to UNPLUG your phones before turning the LYR off and/on?  Wouldn't this present extra stress on the plug/jack over time?  I have been turning volume to 0 but not unplugging my phones.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





jfrocke said:


> Is it really common practice to UNPLUG your phones before turning the LYR off and/on?  Wouldn't this present extra stress on the plug/jack over time?  I have been turning volume to 0 but not unplugging my phones.


 
   
  I don't know.  I ordered my Lyr during preorder, so I had an early one (#000288).  It didn't have the mute relay or any such thing.  During the time I owned it, I used it with the HD 650 and HE-6, and I never once unplugged before turning the amp off or plugged in after waiting for it to warm up.  All I did was make sure the volume pot was zeroed before shutting it off and turning it on.


----------



## paradoxper

I believe even with volume at 0 the channel can get shorted. The amp is powered on. It's always a risk. But you don't hear about headphones blowing up or buffers being fried often?


----------



## mikek200

This is ridiculous...
   
  Which is it?..does anyone really know??..
  When I first got the lyr/bifrost..I was told .NEVER to plug in/unplug , the headphones when the power is on..
   
  Then this: " Regardless of what amp you use good headphone procedures would be to turn the volume to zero. Turn on the unit. Then plug in your cans. For turning off the process is reversed. Stop your source. Volume to zero. Unplug cans. Then power off."
   
Amps exploding,headphones melting,computers getting fried....
Does anyone have a definitive answer..even Schiit..??
   
Maybe Schiit wants us to all run out, & get balanced amps,so everything explodes all at once..
Comon,will yeah??


----------



## paradoxper

Who really knows... Where's Jason or Kwkarth?
   
  I would presume the general consensus is to turn volume to 0 then unplug/plug-in. Though many of us don't always follow these outlines,
  with no tragic outcome. It would be best to follow the manufactures direction. So let's wait and find out.


----------



## mikek200

I just sent an e-mail to Jason...
   
  Hopefully ,he will reply,unless he is too busy....balancing the Schiit.


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> This is ridiculous...
> 
> Which is it?..does anyone really know??..
> When I first got the lyr/bifrost..I was told .NEVER to plug in/unplug , the headphones when the power is on..
> ...


 
   

 where did you hear "never plug.unplug headphones with the power on" ?
   
  I dont see this being a problem or harmful to the headphones at all as long as volume is on 0. 
   
  as for wearing out the headphone jack, I seriously doubt you will do that. But it that's a concern, you could use an adapter which you could leave plugged into the amp 
   
   
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> I don't know.  I ordered my Lyr during preorder, so I had an early one (#000288).  It didn't have the mute relay or any such thing.  During the time I owned it, I used it with the HD 650 and HE-6, and I never once unplugged before turning the amp off or plugged in after waiting for it to warm up.  All I did was make sure the volume pot was zeroed before shutting it off and turning it on.


 
  Have you ever kept the headphones on while doing to power up or turning off?
   
  I have and you definitely get a unpleasant pop which will make you want to unplug headphones before turning off.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> where did you hear "never plug.unplug headphones with the power on" ?
> 
> I dont see this being a problem or harmful to the headphones at all as long as volume is on 0.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





mac336 said:


> where did you hear "never plug.unplug headphones with the power on" ?
> 
> I dont see this being a problem or harmful to the headphones at all as long as volume is on 0.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Actually If memory serves me correct, there have been multiple cases with problems relating to this very question, just not directly with Schiit amps. I think one of the most notable was the PPA. What I don't know is if the relay Schiit implemented cures it from the problems or not. (Maybe those problems back then are no longer a worry, these things aren't clear to me)
   
  Now if this just differs from each Manufacture regardless of if there is a relay mute present or not remains to be yet another unanswered question.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> Have you ever kept the headphones on while doing to power up or turning off?
> 
> I have and you definitely get a unpleasant pop which will make you want to unplug headphones before turning off.


 
   
  I don't think the question is whether or not the pop is "unpleasant".  The question is if the pop can damage/destroy headphones.  It never did anything to mine.
   
  That said, when I owned the Lyr, I did often have the headphones on when starting up or shutting down the amp.  I never experienced a loud or jarring pop when turning the amp on or off.  Maybe a small one, but never anything that I found to be concerning to the health of my 'phones.


----------



## mac336

my thought process is why risk it.  personally, its no problem for me.  I just let the lyr sit for half an hour anyway for the tubes to warm up.  then I plug the headphones in


----------



## SeaHawk

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *mikek200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> When I first got the lyr/bifrost..I was told .NEVER to plug in/unplug , the headphones when the power is on..


 
   
  By whom?


----------



## mikek200

Here is the article I was referring to,and I may have mis quoted,but assumed ,that  the same thing would apply..
  If it does not ,I apologize...and will shut up....Here is the link:
   
      http://www.upscaleaudio.com/pages/Basic-Troubleshooting-Checklist.html
  But,isn't it the same thing???speakers/headphones???
  Correct me if I'm wrong..


----------



## Carlsan

Received a couple of pairs of tubes recently from Upscale Audio. Both pair were cyrogenically treated.
   
   Aperex preamp grade 7308 - Good sound but not as good as the Bugle Boys I was using.
   
  Tungsram 6922 Platinum Grade. - just put these in and so far I'm impressed. These maybe even better than the Bugle Boys. Nice clarity throughout the spectrum. Possibly a touch warm. Still so far they sound really good at bringing the music to its full potential through the Lyr and HD800 headphones.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> my thought process is why risk it.  personally, its no problem for me.  I just let the lyr sit for half an hour anyway for the tubes to warm up.  then I plug the headphones in


 
   

 you actually wait hahah a half hour for them to warm up? dude they are ready to go in less than 5 minutes.. hahah that is a urban myth having them sit to warm up


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Actually If memory serves me correct, there have been multiple cases with problems relating to this very question, just not directly with Schiit amps. I think one of the most notable was the PPA. What I don't know is if the relay Schiit implemented cures it from the problems or not. (Maybe those problems back then are no longer a worry, these things aren't clear to me)
> 
> Now if this just differs from each Manufacture regardless of if there is a relay mute present or not remains to be yet another unanswered question.


 
   

 In theory yes if the Lyr was all the way down and you plugged in your headphones nothing will happen at all.. In practice and this is being very carefull I would personally never plug the headphones in the Lyr any of mine with it turned on but I leave my plugged in all the time so I dont worry about it.... I have plugged the LCD-2's in while th Lyr was at about 11 oclock and nothing happened but I would not do what I did..


----------



## MrScary

Well here is my present to the Forum for my long time service here
   
  If you want one of the top best sounding tubes their is a killer NOS set that have been tested on Ebay for a killer price they are in the Top 5 best sounding tubes I never had a pair of these havent seen them every..
  I just scored an unreal top 5 tube for so cheap you would scream so  here ya go whoever gets them first... they are ranged number #5 which means they kick arse   http://www.ebay.com/itm/SQ-PAIR-PHILIPS-MINIWATT-TESTED-E88CC-6922-/170826504694?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27c60d99f6
   
  Have fun
   
  ôô
  Ö


----------



## mikiphile

Since this thread (for reasons unknown) is one of the very few active threads about the Lyr, and people post all sorts of stuff, I took liberty to ask certain questions to Schiit/Lyr/Bifrost owners.
   
  I have been wanting to buy a Lyr for quite some time now and I even had the opportunity to auditioned it. Tried it with the HD800s which sure sounded absolutely outstanding on it! I need it for my K701s which I my longest term keepers. Ive also decided on the Bifrost (ive tried it as well) since it is the best in the price range and i like the synergy with the Lyr. 
   
My questions: 
   

 What (kind of) interconnecting cables would you suggest for this combo that are not an overkill (Cardas Golden cross reference) and not a cheap piece of junk (2$ wires). In other words, which cables would be the optimum choice with a proportional price and equal performance to the Schiit combo. Side note: I would like as much neutrality as possible, however, I would prefer warmth rather than added brightness.
  USB Bifrost headfiers.. are you satisfied with the performance of the USB? I still have trouble understanding... does the USB part use a different circuitry and different D/A chip than the SPDIF???
   
  Thanks, all answers appreciated.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> you actually wait hahah a half hour for them to warm up? dude they are ready to go in less than 5 minutes.. hahah that is a urban myth having them sit to warm up


 
  The general rule for all tube amps is to turn it on only with the volume control knob set to the lowest volume.
   
  For tube amps running only with small dual triodes like the Lyr, yes 5 mins is sufficient but my personal preference is 10 mins tops.
   
  For tube amps with large power tubes such as EL34, KT88 etc, letting your tube amps warm up for 1/2 an hour before play is not just a good idea. It sounds much better.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> Since this thread (for reasons unknown) is one of the very few active threads about the Lyr, and people post all sorts of stuff, I took liberty to ask certain questions to Schiit/Lyr/Bifrost owners.
> 
> I have been wanting to buy a Lyr for quite some time now and I even had the opportunity to auditioned it. Tried it with the HD800s which sure sounded absolutely outstanding on it! I need it for my K701s which I my longest term keepers. Ive also decided on the Bifrost (ive tried it as well) since it is the best in the price range and i like the synergy with the Lyr.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm only going to speak to interconnects I've used. Which are from AudioQuest (Diamondback) and WireWorld (Equinox) neither are an extraordinary amount of money. Both are neutral sounding to my ears.
  I can't recommend a USB cable, but FWIW the Silflex toslink cable is quite good and nicely priced.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> What (kind of) interconnecting cables would you suggest for this combo that are not an overkill (Cardas Golden cross reference) and not a cheap piece of junk (2$ wires). In other words, which cables would be the optimum choice with a proportional price and equal performance to the Schiit combo. Side note: I would like as much neutrality as possible, however, I would prefer warmth rather than added brightness.


 
   
  Monoprice or Blue Jeans should be more than enough.


----------



## SeaHawk

I re-used some older AudioQuest cables that seem to work very nicely.  I highly recommend Blue Jeans cables as well and know they can make custom lengths... Anyone know what the minimum length to connect a stacked Bifrost/Lyr pair?  It would clear some clutter and look very nice, methinks!


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well here is my present to the Forum for my long time service here
> 
> If you want one of the top best sounding tubes their is a killer NOS set that have been tested on Ebay for a killer price they are in the Top 5 best sounding tubes I never had a pair of these havent seen them every..
> I just scored an unreal top 5 tube for so cheap you would scream so  here ya go whoever gets them first... they are ranged number #5 which means they kick arse   http://www.ebay.com/itm/SQ-PAIR-PHILIPS-MINIWATT-TESTED-E88CC-6922-/170826504694?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27c60d99f6
> ...


 
   
  I'll let you know how they sound after they arrive. 
  LOL!


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> you actually wait hahah a half hour for them to warm up? dude they are ready to go in less than 5 minutes.. hahah that is a urban myth having them sit to warm up


 
   

 Im not sitting there for 30 min waiting for them.  I turn the lyr on, go get a shower and eat or something, then come back and its ready to go. 
   
  I felt like the lyr sounded better after a good 20 minutes when its all toasty.  whether its placebo or not who knows


----------



## sjay

my Amperex 7308 JAN PQ White Label, 1966, Gold pins got delivered yesterday and i must say, i am very much enjoying them.
   
these were not NOS so i assume they are broken in.
   
i am using them with an NFB3, squeezebox touch connected by coax and akg701's as well as beyer dt880's.
   
money well spent imho.


----------



## olor1n

What happens when a tube dies? Does it go out in a blaze of glory after exhibiting specific symptoms? Are headphones and ears at risk of annihilation?
   
  One of my Bugles now hums and exhibits noise noticeable even during playback. The channels have lost balance and oddly the noisy tube seems louder than the other. I've rolled the Stuttgarts and the synergy my system has with the HD800 is diminished. May have to hoard and stockpile some Bugles for posterity.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> The general rule for all tube amps is to turn it on only with the volume control knob set to the lowest volume.
> 
> For tube amps running only with small dual triodes like the Lyr, yes 5 mins is sufficient but my personal preference is 10 mins tops.
> 
> For tube amps with large power tubes such as EL34, KT88 etc, letting your tube amps warm up for 1/2 an hour before play is not just a good idea. It sounds much better.


 
   
  Ok yes it is good practice to allow tubes to warm up as I said its a myth that anything more than 5 minutes is required... Now on tube amps lets see I have been Playing the guitar for almost 32 years 17 of that semi-professional I have many tube amps with large scary arse tubes
  we have  standby button at tops maybe 3 minutes these tubes heat up so quick becuase hahah they are carrying so much current looking at the back of some of my amps looks like a fireworks display 30 minutes pffft you go ahead and thing dude hahaha.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> What happens when a tube dies? Does it go out in a blaze of glory after exhibiting specific symptoms? Are headphones and ears at risk of annihilation?
> 
> One of my Bugles now hums and exhibits noise noticeable even during playback. The channels have lost balance and oddly the noisy tube seems louder than the other. I've rolled the Stuttgarts and the synergy my system has with the HD800 is diminished. May have to hoard and stockpile some Bugles for posterity.


 
   
  Ummm some pop I have had larger tubes like 6L6's pop make a noise but with these smaller tubes like the Lyr only putting out 6.3 volts not much happens they either just die or get noisy or if you are lucky make get a spark before they go I had one set that was nutz they were only a week old and the left channel in the Lyr started getting low so I looked over at the Lyr and their was this hahah blue like flame current running at the bottom of the tube... then I said ohhhh dear me... hahaha and I just turned off the Lyr and threw them away


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> What happens when a tube dies? Does it go out in a blaze of glory after exhibiting specific symptoms? Are headphones and ears at risk of annihilation?


 
   
  Hahaha.. that made me laugh.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> What happens when a tube dies? Does it go out in a blaze of glory after exhibiting specific symptoms? Are headphones and ears at risk of annihilation?


 
   
  Didn't the Schiit Lyr advertisement promise to make "*magic smoke*" come out from your headphones?
   
  LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  and
   
  After


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Didn't the Schiit Lyr advertisement promise to make "*magic smoke*" come out from your headphones?
> 
> LOL
> 
> ...


 
   
  Soon, i will put this to the test... if not im sending it back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 haha.
   
  Really have high expectations for this one. Im expecting to revive my K701s with it.


----------



## mac336

anyone get this occasional click on the lyr.  I get one about every 20 minutes or so (maybe alittle longer).  Sounds similar to the power relay click.  just wondering what it was


----------



## sjay

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> anyone get this occasional click on the lyr.  I get one about every 20 minutes or so (maybe alittle longer).  Sounds similar to the power relay click.  just wondering what it was


 
   

 mine is dead silent like that...no pops or clicks...have you tried emailing schiit for support?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> anyone get this occasional click on the lyr.  I get one about every 20 minutes or so (maybe alittle longer).  Sounds similar to the power relay click.  just wondering what it was


 
   
Are you getting the click with music playing or paused? Are you only getting it when changing songs? (Which would then be the normal click made when sample rate is changed)


----------



## SeaHawk

Using S/PDIF input?


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Uh, why would the Lyr click when sample rate changes? It's an amp, not a dac.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Uh, why would the Lyr click when sample rate changes? It's an amp, not a dac.


 
   
  Wow! I don't know where my head was. I was completely thinking of the Bifrost.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> anyone get this occasional click on the lyr.  I get one about every 20 minutes or so (maybe alittle longer).  Sounds similar to the power relay click.  just wondering what it was


 
   
  Fwiw, I experience clicking from my Bifrost that drives me mad. It occurs mid song and kicks in randomly causing tracks to stutter. I haven't had an uninterrupted listening session for some time. Perhaps it's the same single component inside the Bifrost and Lyr, on its last legs, causing the muting relay mechanism to engage when it's not supposed to.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Fwiw, I experience clicking from my Bifrost that drives me mad. It occurs mid song and kicks in randomly causing tracks to stutter. I haven't had an uninterrupted listening session for some time. Perhaps it's the same single component inside the Bifrost and Lyr, on its last legs, causing the muting relay mechanism to engage when it's not supposed to.


 
   
  Does this occur via USB or Digital? If it's usb, try a different port on you computer.... Check connection, USB drivers. Different computer.
  If it's via digital, check connection, replace cable.
  Change sources and interconnects, Does it occur if playback is from a CD player/DVD etc. It should be fairly easy to pinpoint exactly which component has an issue.
   
  Apologies if you've already taken these steps...


----------



## olor1n

Yes, I've tried to isolate the issue. The clicking happens when the source is my MacBook Pro connected via usb, as well as optical. It happens mid song, but also when there are no applications running and no sound being played back. I've used my PS3 via toslink as a CD player and have observed the clicking whilst playing a disc, when watching a movie and also when the system was idle in the dashboard.
   
  It's often multiple clicks occurring at irregular intervals. Sometimes it persists and turning the Bifrost on/off does nothing and I resign my listening session for the following day. Other times it's a click or two and then perfect playback. If I didn't like the sound of the dac so much I would have just binned it long ago.


----------



## eddiek997

Maybe one more thing to try is to remove the USB card and try just optical.


----------



## GeorgeNapalm

Hello everyone. I have a quick question. I was enjoying my Lyr with stock GE 6BZ7 tubes for quite a while, but decided to dive into tube rolling. I've recently purchased a pair of Amperex Bugle Boys on ebay. This is my posting:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320886847277?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  After I installed them in Lyr I started to hear slight buzzing sound from one channel, which sometimes happens with older tubes with corroded pins. So I removed them and holding them in one hand started scraping the pins with a knife. And when I was done I found out that the logo and other markings on the tubes got erased.
   
  Is it usual for Amperex factory markings to come off so easily? Or does it mean that I bought fakes?


----------



## olor1n

^ Looks legit.


----------



## GeorgeNapalm

Thanks *olor1n*! I'm going to burn them in and then do some analytical listening.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





georgenapalm said:


> Hello everyone. I have a quick question. I was enjoying my Lyr with stock GE 6BZ7 tubes for quite a while, but decided to dive into tube rolling. I've recently purchased a pair of Amperex Bugle Boys on ebay. This is my posting:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/320886847277?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> ...


 
   
  From what I have read, if markings on older tubes don't come off, then there is a greater chance of them being fakes. The produced fakes have really good printing on them that doesn't wear off as easily. 
  Also, I had a similar problem with a pair of bugle boys also bought off of ebay. They cleared up after a few hours and then sounded fine.
   
  More info on fake tubes:
http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.htm


----------



## GeorgeNapalm

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> From what I have read, if markings on older tubes don't come off, then there is a greater chance of them being fakes. The produced fakes have really good printing on them that doesn't wear off as easily.
> Also, I had a similar problem with a pair of bugle boys also bought off of ebay. They cleared up after a few hours and then sounded fine.
> 
> More info on fake tubes:
> http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.htm


 
   
  Thanks! That's good to know. That reminds of Napoleon, who was printing fake Russian roubles during 1812 war, but they were easily caught, because their quality of paper and printing was so much better than that of original roubles.


----------



## kskwerl

Would it be safe to say going from the Sylvania's to the GE's that schiit offers that the bass is tighter? That's what im hearing anyway, anyone else come to this conclusion?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Yes, I've tried to isolate the issue. The clicking happens when the source is my MacBook Pro connected via usb, as well as optical. It happens mid song, but also when there are no applications running and no sound being played back. I've used my PS3 via toslink as a CD player and have observed the clicking whilst playing a disc, when watching a movie and also when the system was idle in the dashboard.
> 
> It's often multiple clicks occurring at irregular intervals. Sometimes it persists and turning the Bifrost on/off does nothing and I resign my listening session for the following day. Other times it's a click or two and then perfect playback. If I didn't like the sound of the dac so much I would have just binned it long ago.


 
   

 Have you tried a different source anything a receiver or whatever cd player etc to eliminate the source clicks to me sounds awful odd . The scientific method will be the only way to figure it out. elimninate the source first then go from there


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Yes, I've tried to isolate the issue. The clicking happens when the source is my MacBook Pro connected via usb, as well as optical. It happens mid song, but also when there are no applications running and no sound being played back. I've used my PS3 via toslink as a CD player and have observed the clicking whilst playing a disc, when watching a movie and also when the system was idle in the dashboard.
> 
> It's often multiple clicks occurring at irregular intervals. Sometimes it persists and turning the Bifrost on/off does nothing and I resign my listening session for the following day. Other times it's a click or two and then perfect playback. If I didn't like the sound of the dac so much I would have just binned it long ago.


 
   

 Oh sorry man I see you alreayd tested the source sorry kinda tired..Hmmm this is a  weird one... Am I correct you have the original Lyr Like I do correct without that 20 sec delay thingy?


----------



## faverodefavero

Is there any good new (made nowadays) tubes that do well with the Lyr? Where can I buy them, please? T

Thanks for helping!


----------



## AppleDappleman

Anyone selling their Lorenz 3-mica for a reasonable price?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

faverodefavero said:


> Is there any good new (made nowadays) tubes that do well with the Lyr? Where can I buy them, please? T
> Thanks for helping!




The electroharmonix 6922eh are a current day 6922. They sound good with the Lyr, definitely an upgrade from the also currently made JJs. I still don't think they can touch a good nos tube but they are more readily available and less expensive than alot of nos tubes. http://thetubestore.com/ehx6922.html


----------



## sridhar3

The best new-production tubes are the JJs or the Genalex Gold Lions probably.  EAT makes 6922 tubes as well, but I haven't heard them.  They're pretty expensive, unfortunately.


----------



## SeaHawk

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Anyone selling their Lorenz 3-mica for a reasonable price?


 
   
  I'll tag along on this with "Anyone selling their Lorenz 3-mica for an unreasonable price?"


----------



## AppleDappleman

seahawk said:


> I'll tag along on this with "Anyone selling their Lorenz 3-mica for an unreasonable price?"




Whoa whoa, I was here first haha.


----------



## kskwerl

This a good price? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150764222621&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160 Just ordered 2 for about 27 bucks, prob won't see them for a month or so


----------



## faverodefavero

Ok, one more question: Does anyone knows some REALLY silent tubes for the Lyr? I mean, which would be the more "perfect-black-pit" zero volume kind of tube for the Lyr, please?
   
  No matter what tube I use I ALWAYS can hear some (very low) white noise with sensitive cans, like Grados, Magnums and Yuins... Planar Magnetics like the HE-5LE (better one, so far) and HE-500 go fine with almost zero-noise floor (tough you can hear some if pay allot of attention, in low-medium volume levels with no music playing).
   
  I really want a silent tube for my Lyr! If anyone knows one, please advise me (oh, and a place to buy it online would be VERY nice too!). Thanks everyone and sorry for the bother.


----------



## songmic

It actually depends on the tube as well as the tube type. Most tubes are said to be silent, but there are variations among the same type of tubes. For example, my last pair of Lorenz 3-micas was silent in one tube, but slightly microphonic in the other. Not that it made much difference, though. I use the LCD-2 headphones, which are planar magnetic but still more sensitive than its Hifiman counterparts.
   
  Quote: 





faverodefavero said:


> Ok, one more question: Does anyone knows some REALLY silent tubes for the Lyr? I mean, which would be the more "perfect-black-pit" zero volume kind of tube for the Lyr, please?
> 
> No matter what tube I use I ALWAYS can hear some (very low) white noise with sensitive cans, like Grados, Magnums and Yuins... Planar Magnetics like the HE-5LE (better one, so far) and HE-500 go fine with almost zero-noise floor (tough you can hear some if pay allot of attention, in low-medium volume levels with no music playing).
> 
> I really want a silent tube for my Lyr! If anyone knows one, please advise me (oh, and a place to buy it online would be VERY nice too!). Thanks everyone and sorry for the bother.


----------



## kskwerl

songmic said:


> It actually depends on the tube as well as the tube type. Most tubes are said to be silent, but there are variations among the same type of tubes. For example, my last pair of Lorenz 3-micas was silent in one tube, but slightly microphonic in the other. Not that it made much difference, though. I use the LCD-2 headphones, which are planar magnetic but still more sensitive than its Hifiman counterparts.




what tubes are you using songmic?


----------



## songmic

I had used several tubes, from the stock JJ E88CC, GE 6BZ7 tubes to Lorenz 3-micas, Matsu****a 6922's, and Amperex 7308's - the latter of which broke, unfortunately. Right now I've got a matched pair of Matsu****a 6922 (originally from Tubemonger) lying around I'm willing to sell at $50, which are normally sold at $80 on Tubemonger. These tubes are silent with my LCD-2 (unless I crank the knob to very high volume) and provide superior resolution and detail compared to the stock tubes. PM me if interested.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Ok, can someone teach me exactly how to read tubes? I thought I could handle it on my own and just learn as I go. But its super confusing. 

 For example when I search up Lorenz E88CC, I get a million different types and I don't know what works and what doesn't.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Ok, can someone teach me exactly how to read tubes? I thought I could handle it on my own and just learn as I go. But its super confusing.
> 
> For example when I search up Lorenz E88CC, I get a million different types and I don't know what works and what doesn't.


 
  There's tons of resources available. Here's an alright link: http://thetubestore.com/tubeinfo.html


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Ok, can someone teach me exactly how to read tubes? I thought I could handle it on my own and just learn as I go. But its super confusing.
> 
> For example when I search up Lorenz E88CC, I get a million different types and I don't know what works and what doesn't.


 

 Here is an excellent resource for tubey goodness  http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
   
  Although, Joes Tube lore is great .. http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


----------



## SeaHawk

For Grados, I've had great success with '64 Mullard 6JD8's and the white Amperex USN-CEP 7308's.  Sound a tad bit sweeter with the former (and low noise floor) and very low noise floor with the latter.
   
  Let me know if you find something else!


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Here is an excellent resource for tubey goodness  http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> 
> Although, Joes Tube lore is great .. http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


 
  Yeah these sites are ok for general info but for the Lyr alot of tubes are not mentioned for example they mention little of the PCC88 Lorenz or at all the Stugart are the best sounding of all the tubes and I have had all of them
  sadly they are no longer to be found at all.. Gone they were used int he Lorenz radios back in the 60's so supply was never abundant.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> For Grados, I've had great success with '64 Mullard 6JD8's and the white Amperex USN-CEP 7308's.  Sound a tad bit sweeter with the former (and low noise floor) and very low noise floor with the latter.
> 
> Let me know if you find something else!


 

 Good work the Mullards are the best thing to tame any sibilance or funny bunny highs I use a rare Au7 in my Dac to assist with some of my woes


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





songmic said:


> It actually depends on the tube as well as the tube type. Most tubes are said to be silent, but there are variations among the same type of tubes. For example, my last pair of Lorenz 3-micas was silent in one tube, but slightly microphonic in the other. Not that it made much difference, though. I use the LCD-2 headphones, which are planar magnetic but still more sensitive than its Hifiman counterparts.


 

 Heres the kicker all tubes are microphonic how much they are depends I have some pairs that can be a bit noisy the ones Im using right now are hahah they are Siemens early 60 E88CC's they do not sound as good as the CCa or the Lorenz Stuggarts but pretty close they kinda are a mix
  rare tube to find the newer batch sound awfull from the late 60's to 75...


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





faverodefavero said:


> Ok, one more question: Does anyone knows some REALLY silent tubes for the Lyr? I mean, which would be the more "perfect-black-pit" zero volume kind of tube for the Lyr, please?
> 
> No matter what tube I use I ALWAYS can hear some (very low) white noise with sensitive cans, like Grados, Magnums and Yuins... Planar Magnetics like the HE-5LE (better one, so far) and HE-500 go fine with almost zero-noise floor (tough you can hear some if pay allot of attention, in low-medium volume levels with no music playing).
> 
> I really want a silent tube for my Lyr! If anyone knows one, please advise me (oh, and a place to buy it online would be VERY nice too!). Thanks everyone and sorry for the bother.


 

 It's not the tubes dude its the impedance of those phones you can't get rid of it no tube will.. the higher impedance phones do not have this issue bottom line the Lyr was designed for the new Planar headphones even though I use it for alot of low Impedance phones I usually never go below 80ohms and that is with ultrasones I cannot count how many people have fried out their phones because of the Lyr  be very very carefull


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> This a good price? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150764222621&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160 Just ordered 2 for about 27 bucks, prob won't see them for a month or so


 

 Sadly my friend they do nto sound any different than the newer ones they are ummm how can I say yucky... I have two old sets of these tubes one even has gold pins god knows what it really is and they all sound the same in the early days when the Lyr first came out some of us even got the Cryo tubes thinking that freezing them would help hahah nothing does accept the trash can...have fun


----------



## songmic

MrScary, do you have any pair of 60's-made Siemens & Halske CCa's (gray or chrome shields) lying around willing to put up for sale? Some guys apparently bought them from you and I was wondering if there are any left. I know those are quite rare and sell around $2~300 for a matched pair, so if you do have some please PM me.


----------



## faverodefavero

mrscary said:


> It's not the tubes dude its the impedance of those phones you can't get rid of it no tube will.. the higher impedance phones do not have this issue bottom line the Lyr was designed for the new Planar headphones even though I use it for alot of low Impedance phones I usually never go below 80ohms and that is with ultrasones I cannot count how many people have fried out their phones because of the Lyr  be very very carefull




Even so, which tubes have the lowest, most silent, noise floor? I really want to know...

Any "perfect-black" tube (even for 32Ohm dynamic Headphones)? Or a tube that's really good for making "black-holes" trough the music (on silent passages, parts)?

Heck, even with the HE-500 (at about 60% on Lyr's volume level) and HE-5LE (around 75%) I can hear some - very small, altough hearable if no music is playing and one pays attetion to it - white noise after some point. I know I would probably fibrilate my eardrums listening to music at that level with the Lyr (even with Planar Magnetics), but the noise is there (if you crank the volume knob so far)...

Thanks for helping, really!


----------



## weitn

I have received the NOS Amperex Bugleboy rare large halo getter (made in Holland) which I ordered from audiotubes.com. Brent is easy to deal with, the price is reasonable and I am glad that he ear test these pair of tubes for me. Initial impression, even before proper burn in (3 hours burn in so far on my Lyr), it has much wider soundstage, more depth, extended bass and extended treble compared to my proper burned in GE 6BZ7. The extended treble doesn't has any iritating hissing which I dislike. Love the extended treble. Definitely sounds better than GE 6BZ7 and 6N1P.
   
  In term tubes glow at night, I would rank (most beautiful at the top):
  1) 6N1P
  2) GE 6BZ7
  3) NOS Amperex Bugleboy rare large halo getter (made in Holland)
   
  In term of sound quality, I would rank (best SQ at the top):
   1) NOS Amperex Bugleboy rare large halo getter (made in Holland) (initial impression - ranking might change after proper burn in but less likely)
  2) GE 6BZ7 (proper burned in)
  3) 6N1P (proper burned in)
   
  Below is some photos of the tubes.


----------



## mikiphile

Sooo... finally after months of planning and waiting.. i got my Schiit Lyr + Bifrost combo. Including some ALO interconnects and of course, the CV2492 Mullards. All courtesy of Mr. SHAHZADA123.. thank you so much!! 
   
  This is my first headphone tube amp (my first dedicated amp and dac ever), and the first time to do some tube rolling. Currently im rolling between the stock JJs (i believe) and the Mullards. I am using my AKG K242 HD, since my K701 is back home, and I am currently on a 3 month internship in Abu Dhabi.
   
  I could never even imagine that such differences can be heard between tubes, especially on a hybrid amp. The JJs are totally different than the Mullards. The JJs are quite detailed, rather balanced and dynamic, while the Mullards are so lush sounding and warm, bass is more present, they have slightly recessed vocals (i think smoother is a more accurate description) and the treble is even more so, quite dynamic as well. 
   
  I believe the Mullards will be a phenomenal match for my K701s, since they really need a touch of warmth to make them very neutral. I heard this setup for a couple of minutes, and I heard some things from familiar songs Ive never heard before and in the way ive never expected its possible. The DAC is superb and the amp makes the K701s sound better than anyone would imagine.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Love the glow of the vacuum tubes in semi darkness and total darkness. So I took some photos of them with my G11.
> 
> Lyr with 6N1P.
> 
> ...


 
  I know this is an old post, but geez I love how bright yours glow!


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





weitn said:


> I have received the NOS Amperex Bugleboy rare large halo getter (made in Holland) which I ordered from audiotubes.com. Brent is easy to deal with, the price is reasonable and I am glad that he ear test these pair of tubes for me. Initial impression, even before proper burn in (3 hours burn in so far on my Lyr), it has much wider soundstage, more depth, extended bass and extended treble compared to my proper burned in GE 6BZ7. The extended treble doesn't has any iritating hissing which I dislike. Love the extended treble. Definitely sounds better than GE 6BZ7 and 6N1P.
> 
> In term tubes glow at night, I would rank (most beautiful at the top):
> 1) 6N1P
> ...


 
  WAIT A SECOND!! How did you get the tube posts so high?? At first, i thought the tubes were different in size, but it looks like they sit higher.. how did you do this?
   
  Also, how do you handle the heat coming out of the Lyr? It gets bloody hot after 30 mins of listening, and I think its even hotter with the Mullards. Is this normal and how long will it run till it overheats? I can see its a sturdy thing, but I dont want to risk it. I have a tube amp which gets quite hot, but this thing surprised me.


----------



## paradoxper

He's probably using socket savers. You can find them on Tubemonger.
   
  How close are you to the Lyr when it's on? Amps get hot, there's nothing to worry about.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> WAIT A SECOND!! How did you get the tube posts so high?? At first, i thought the tubes were different in size, but it looks like they sit higher.. how did you do this?
> 
> Also, how do you handle the heat coming out of the Lyr? It gets bloody hot after 30 mins of listening, and I think its even hotter with the Mullards. Is this normal and how long will it run till it overheats? I can see its a sturdy thing, but I dont want to risk it. I have a tube amp which gets quite hot, but this thing surprised me.


 

 I have mine raised on damping spikes, runs warm but not hot. I guess convection is cooling the Lyr. By raising it off the desk, cooler air is sucked from the underneath passes upwards and cools the amp as it goes. I run mine for hours on end without any heat issues at all.


----------



## paradoxper

Well, I'm quite the opposite then. I'll run mine for hours and it gets very hot. It doesn't matter if it's a Mullard, Siemen, Lorenz or any other tube.
  I haven't had any issues with heat, overheating, burning, fires, etc. I'd me more worried if it were running cold.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Mikiphile I did an experiment and after 3hrs the tubes plateau at around 160 degree fahrenheit and the knob on the Lyr was 100f. So yeah it's is suppose to get a bit warm. 

As far as best tube light... I have to give it to the 6n1p. However the 6h23n-eb is the brightest I own


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> I have mine raised on damping spikes, runs warm but not hot. I guess convection is cooling the Lyr. By raising it off the desk, cooler air is sucked from the underneath passes upwards and cools the amp as it goes. I run mine for hours on end without any heat issues at all.


 
   
  Where did you get the damping spikes? Do you know if they are the same as the socket savers sold by Tubemonger?


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Where did you get the damping spikes? Do you know if they are the same as the socket savers sold by Tubemonger?


 
  The spikes are spare from a set of speakers... The socket savers are a different thing all together. I don't have those.


----------



## mikek200

On a kind of a related issue
   
  Does anyone use the 7DJ8 tubes,and does anyone have over heating issue with these tubes.
  I've read that it is has a 7 volt heater rating,and might not be safe to use on the Lyr
  I have a few of these tubes,and so far no issues,and they seem to get just as hot, as the rest of my tubes.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> On a kind of a related issue
> 
> Does anyone use the 7DJ8 tubes,and does anyone have over heating issue with these tubes.
> I've read that it is has a 7 volt heater rating,and might not be safe to use on the Lyr
> I have a few of these tubes,and so far no issues,and they seem to get just as hot, as the rest of my tubes.


 
  The PCC88 tubes are rated for 7v and they have no problem. Shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## Carlsan

Jason from Schitt does not think it is a good idea to use that tube.
  Just saying...
   
   
  Quote: 





> Does anyone use the 7DJ8 tubes,and does anyone have over heating issue with these tubes.
> I've read that it is has a 7 volt heater rating,and might not be safe to use on the Lyr
> I have a few of these tubes,and so far no issues,and they seem to get just as hot, as the rest of my tubes.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





songmic said:


> MrScary, do you have any pair of 60's-made Siemens & Halske CCa's (gray or chrome shields) lying around willing to put up for sale? Some guys apparently bought them from you and I was wondering if there are any left. I know those are quite rare and sell around $2~300 for a matched pair, so if you do have some please PM me.


 
  Sorry my friend I have several sets they are saved for me for now.. I bought a ton at one time I found a deal of a lifetime I may open up one set in the next couple months


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Jason from Schitt does not think it is a good idea to use that tube.
> Just saying...


 
   
  No man you would not have overheating issues you would have the direct opposite same as with the PCC88 tubes the Lyr only puts out about 6.3 volts to the Heater so what the Lyr does is set the Bias of the tube low.. So you would get the opposite effect so in theory they should last longer just as the PCC88 should.. The best sounding tubest the Lorenz PCC88 Stugartts are 7 volt heaters they are underpowered not overpowered.. hope that helps


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Jason from Schitt does not think it is a good idea to use that tube.
> Just saying...


 
   
   
  Jason, has never tested the tubes I don't know why he continues to say that its just dumb.. there is nothing wrong with a tube that is underbiased


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> No man you would not have overheating issues you would have the direct opposite same as with the PCC88 tubes the Lyr only puts out about 6.3 volts to the Heater so what the Lyr does is set the Bias of the tube low.. So you would get the opposite effect so in theory they should last longer just as the PCC88 should.. The best sounding tubest the Lorenz PCC88 Stugartts are 7 volt heaters they are underpowered not overpowered.. hope that helps


 
  Great point about how a 7v tube "should" last longer.


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> I know this is an old post, but geez I love how bright yours glow!


 
   
  Thanks. The glow depends on which type tubes. 6N1P has the most beautiful glow, follow by GE 6BZ7 and Amperex Bugleboy rare large halo getter. However, in term of sounds quality, it is in the reverse order.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





faverodefavero said:


> Even so, which tubes have the lowest, most silent, noise floor? I really want to know...
> Any "perfect-black" tube (even for 32Ohm dynamic Headphones)? Or a tube that's really good for making "black-holes" trough the music (on silent passages, parts)?
> Heck, even with the HE-500 (at about 60% on Lyr's volume level) and HE-5LE (around 75%) I can hear some - very small, altough hearable if no music is playing and one pays attetion to it - white noise after some point. I know I would probably fibrilate my eardrums listening to music at that level with the Lyr (even with Planar Magnetics), but the noise is there (if you crank the volume knob so far)...
> Thanks for helping, really!


 
  What tubes are you using man to be hearing noise? reason I ask is out of of all my tubes with my LCD-2's the only ones that have noise are some that are slowly going and they are early 60's Siemens E88CC's
   
  The rest are silent with any phones 300ohm's or higher hmmm I leave my Lyr at about the 1pm position I listen quite loud and I have no noise what Dac are you using?  and what tubes and heaphones maybe we can figure this out


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> WAIT A SECOND!! How did you get the tube posts so high?? At first, i thought the tubes were different in size, but it looks like they sit higher.. how did you do this?
> 
> Also, how do you handle the heat coming out of the Lyr? It gets bloody hot after 30 mins of listening, and I think its even hotter with the Mullards. Is this normal and how long will it run till it overheats? I can see its a sturdy thing, but I dont want to risk it. I have a tube amp which gets quite hot, but this thing surprised me.


 
   
  I am using the Novib 9 pins socket saver (not the Triode Flipper) from tubemonger.com. See my previous posting regarding this socket saver below.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/2850#post_8286321
   
  After a while using them, my recommendation is you only need them if you change tubes a lot (hence the name socket saver). I don't change the tubes a lot but for me, the tubes looks nicer when it outside the amplifier. The tubes are also cooler when it outside the amplifier. The Novib 9 pins socket saver price is quite expensive though.
   
  Try raising the Lyr higher. That way, more heat could dissipate from the bottom. I stacked my Lyr on top my Bifrost. The Bifrost acted like a heatsink for the Lyr.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> WAIT A SECOND!! How did you get the tube posts so high?? At first, i thought the tubes were different in size, but it looks like they sit higher.. how did you do this?
> 
> Also, how do you handle the heat coming out of the Lyr? It gets bloody hot after 30 mins of listening, and I think its even hotter with the Mullards. Is this normal and how long will it run till it overheats? I can see its a sturdy thing, but I dont want to risk it. I have a tube amp which gets quite hot, but this thing surprised me.


 
  He is running the socket savers it does'nt matter man the Lyr gets hot in general Mine has been on 18 hours a day for over a year and its just fine... You think the Lyr is hot try to get near a Guitar amp like one of my big ones that runs huge 6l6 Tubes that require a spring tensioner to keep them in place they are so hot man you could fry a steak near them and they glow like lightning bolts these little preamp tubes are cute but they surely do not light up hahah


----------



## Carlsan

Tubemonger has some socket savers for $15 each, normal price $25. They are being sold with cosmetic blemishes, fine otherwise.
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/Tubemonger_Accesories_s/78.htm
  
  Just picked up a pair myself.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Tubemonger has some socket savers for $15 each, normal price $25. They are being sold with cosmetic blemishes, fine otherwise.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Tubemonger_Accesories_s/78.htm
> 
> Just picked up a pair myself.


 

 Good idea as said before the benefits are if you roll tubes like I do and rotate weekly then its easier to get them out and they do stay a tad cooler how much is not  much but... they also help with anti-vibration which in theory if giggled around can cause increased microphonics.. Now Microphoic tubes are not always a bad thing sometimes they add to the spatial sound... ok Im getting into advanced Tube stuff now I will stop


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Good idea as said before the benefits are if you roll tubes like I do and rotate weekly then its easier to get them out and they do stay a tad cooler how much is not  much but... they also help with anti-vibration which in theory if giggled around can cause increased microphonics.. Now Microphoic tubes are not always a bad thing sometimes they add to the spatial sound... ok Im getting into advanced Tube stuff now I will stop


 
  How would anti-vibration increase microphonics? I'm very curious actually.


----------



## Carlsan

Must resist buying more tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Couldn't find any Lorenz PCC88  but did find some Telefunken PCC88 / 7DJ8.
  Looked like a good price too, about $85 per tube platinum  grade, from upscale audio.


----------



## paradoxper

I'm quite curious to how anti-vibrations/dampening affects sonics as well.


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





weitn said:


> I am using the Novib 9 pins socket saver (not the Triode Flipper) from tubemonger.com. See my previous posting regarding this socket saver below.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/2850#post_8286321
> 
> ...


 
   
  I mean this audiophile thingy is insane. Just as you think your system is now perfect, you find something that needs improving. Personally, i think im gonna need those socket savers as well. Even though I dont tube roll like you guys. I thought i was the only freak impressed by glowing tubes, so i didnt mention it in the first place. I like it when they light up the room 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Also regarding the heating issue.. its not the heat thats bothering me, its how it affects the amp.
   
  If i could lower the heat with those sockets, and add to the nice tube glow.. it would be great! But how does this affect sound quality?
   
  Also.. you mentioned raising the Lyr. Mine sits on top of the Bifrost.. and it will stay there. But i think its adding to the heat a lot!


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Must resist buying more tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Those "Telefunken" PCC88 sold by Upscale audio are actually made by Siemens in the 1970s.
  They are non <> bottoms with single halo getter.
   
  Main sonic difference between Telefunken PCC88 and Siemens PCC88 are as follows :-
   
  Telefunken PCC88 (with <> bottom)
  Pros :- Emphasis on Midrange sweetness -> More suited for vocals. Fantastic soundstage and instrument separation.
  Cons :- Lower end Bass is sacrificed for midrange.
  Special Trait - Makes all songs sound good! Really, plug these in (at least in my system) and every song in every CD of mine "sounds" better.
   
  Siemens PCC88
  Pros :- Great linear all rounder. Bass is more tight than Tfk.
  Cons :- Soundstage and instrument separation is very good but loses out to Tfk above.
   
  So pick your choice of poison! 
   
  Even amongst Siemens PCC88, there are a few varities which I have tried and in my possession.
   
  Best to worst are :-
   
  1950s D Getters Grey Plates w Double staged getter - These were made in the same era as Siemens CCa "old" type. They are warm and have "3D" like soundstage just like the famed CCas and the Lorenz PCC88.
   
  1960s O Getter Grey Plates w Double staged getter
  1960s O Getter Silver Plates w Double staged getter - Main diff between Grey and Silver plates is that silver plates have higher resolution and are more solid state sounding. This is neither good nor bad. If you already have a "bright" system, you might prefer Grey plates to add more "warmish" tube sound.
   
  1970s O Getter Single Halo - Please don't get me wrong, This is still a very good all round tube. Just loses out sonically  to the earlier ones mentioned above.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

​Mikiphile I've been using the socket savers since last oct. and I have found no difference in sound with them in, a good thing imo. I also picked up some feet (isolation and heat dissipation)and tube dampers from herbie's audio


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> ​ Mikiphile I've been using the socket savers since last oct. and I have found no difference in sound with them in, a good thing imo. I also picked up some feet (isolation and heat dissipation)and tube dampers from herbie's audio


 
   
  I am definitely getting some legs soon. Well, initially i was planning to get the resonance cones for under the Bifrost, and raise them all together cos they look nice when stacked. But yea, it might be a good idea to separate them at least a bit. I have very short ALO interconnects though. 
   
  Anyways, does the heat significantly affect the DAC? Cos I don't mind the heat.. its just that i am worried that it might damage the gear. Personally I dont really run them more than 2h at a time, and I don't think it will ever exceed 3h, so is there potentially risk in these circumstances? 
   
  Also, I see your photo with the K701s.. how do you like them with the Lyr? Im craving like a junkie to hear them together, but thats gonna have to wait another 1.5 months till i get home 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I suppose it will sound fantastic with the Mullards. 
   
  I know the last thing is slightly off topic, but since I am moving up the ranks with my audiophile stuff (i started getting some serious gear), my next move should probably be recabling. How does the recable affect the K701, and does it justify the expenses (including cable cost, labor and risk of screwing them up)?
   
  Thanks, 
  Mike


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mikiphile said:


> I am definitely getting some legs soon. Well, initially i was planning to get the resonance cones for under the Bifrost, and raise them all together cos they look nice when stacked. But yea, it might be a good idea to separate them at least a bit. I have very short ALO interconnects though.
> 
> Anyways, does the heat significantly affect the DAC? Cos I don't mind the heat.. its just that i am worried that it might damage the gear. Personally I dont really run them more than 2h at a time, and I don't think it will ever exceed 3h, so is there potentially risk in these circumstances?
> 
> ...





Mike, 2-3hrs will not have an affect on the dac under it. When I was burning in tubes without the feet, the lyr would be on for days at a time on the dac, without issue.
The 701s match really well with the Lyr imo. Your right on with the Mullards. I like tubes that are warm and don't have a boosted high with the 701.
I sent mine to moon audio to have them recabled and modded, owner Drew Baird recommended the black dragon cable for the 701. I had a chance to compair a pair of unmodded 701 with mine at a meet and we both noted an increase in detail with the black dragon. Does that justify the expense is way subjective, tell someone whose not in the hobby you dropped $250 on a cable or a pair of tubes and watch their reaction. To me 250 is a good deal on a cable and if I can find a nos pair of telefunken cca's for that price I'm all about it.


----------



## davidgotsa

I have the Lyr with the 6N1Ps at the moment connected to a Fiio E10... 
   
  I really don't know which DAC and tubes I should get next. If possible, I would want the HD800 to sound a tad bit warmer just to take the treble down a bit.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





davidgotsa said:


> I have the Lyr with the 6N1Ps at the moment connected to a Fiio E10...
> 
> I really don't know which DAC and tubes I should get next. If possible, I would want the HD800 to sound a tad bit warmer just to take the treble down a bit.


 
  I'm sure you're aware of the Gungnir to be released in August. Also, good luck with the tubes helping tame the treble. IME no tubes had a impact in that area, the only thing
  that did help it was the Anaxilus mod. I still suffered too much fatigue and had to part with them. Shame they're an awesome can!


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





davidgotsa said:


> I have the Lyr with the 6N1Ps at the moment connected to a Fiio E10...
> 
> I really don't know which DAC and tubes I should get next. If possible, I would want the HD800 to sound a tad bit warmer just to take the treble down a bit.


 
   
  The balance of the Bifrost is a very good match for the HD800. It won't add warmth that's not in the recording or hamper the treble in any way. I've not heard the E10, but I highly doubt it has the refinement and detail of the Bifrost based on my previous experience with FiiO gear. The Bifrost's treble is extended but incredibly smooth. This gives the presentation a nice sense of air and there's good separation of elements and depth as a result. It really complements the HD800's imaging capabilities imo.
   
  The Lyr is definitely the bottleneck in such a chain. If you're hearing dry, grainy and fatiguing upper mids/treble from the HD800 I suspect your source and tube selection to be the culprits. The Amperex Bugle Boys are fine tubes for the HD800. They're well balanced with a nice sense of weight in the low end and smooth crystal clear top end. The presentation is dynamic and there's a fullness to the sound that doesn't veer into colouration. Most impressive quality though is that details rendered by the BIfrost aren't smeared and there's a convincing sense of space that plays to the HD800's strengths.
   
  Sort out your source and employ transparent tubes. The HD800 doesn't need to be tamed... you just have to feed it a clean signal.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> How would anti-vibration increase microphonics? I'm very curious actually.


 

 No not increase decrease


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I'm sure you're aware of the Gungnir to be released in August. Also, good luck with the tubes helping tame the treble. IME no tubes had a impact in that area, the only thing
> that did help it was the Anaxilus mod. I still suffered too much fatigue and had to part with them. Shame they're an awesome can!


 
  The Mullard line is the one thing that assist but with your DAC I am not so sure that will be the answer the Bugle boys also will help I myself would ditch that Fiio stuff.. You do not need to spend a ton on Dac's if you know the truth about what they do..
  But by looking at the specs I would say a 200.00 DAC will fix that mess... I personally would not suggest the BiForst due to its increased treble but again that can be tamed with  the Amperex or Mullards I would suggest the E*8CC Mullards first but the others are fine as well..
  If you are a USB user god forbid then maybe the Bifrost is your thing but to be honest once you get away from USB all together your sound improves significantly.. I myself use two DAC's one that is a high end very expensive studio Dac that does 448 conversion and
  my EE Minimax most of the time I use the Studio because it is transparent but that costs big bucks and is not even in the realm of most people.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





davidgotsa said:


> I have the Lyr with the 6N1Ps at the moment connected to a Fiio E10...
> 
> I really don't know which DAC and tubes I should get next. If possible, I would want the HD800 to sound a tad bit warmer just to take the treble down a bit.


 

 After reading this again I apologize Im a bit tired firstly get rid of those Russian junks... Spring for some Amperex I will share a secret I never tell but you can pick up
 Pair Amperex Large Ring ECC88 / 6DJ8 (HOLLAND}(White Label)  they sound the same as the bugle boys I have both.. so heave ho but before anything ditch those Russian things they are harsh and nasty in 95% of audio chains.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Mike, 2-3hrs will not have an affect on the dac under it. When I was burning in tubes without the feet, the lyr would be on for days at a time on the dac, without issue.
> The 701s match really well with the Lyr imo. Your right on with the Mullards. I like tubes that are warm and don't have a boosted high with the 701.
> I sent mine to moon audio to have them recabled and modded, owner Drew Baird recommended the black dragon cable for the 701. I had a chance to compair a pair of unmodded 701 with mine at a meet and we both noted an increase in detail with the black dragon. Does that justify the expense is way subjective, tell someone whose not in the hobby you dropped $250 on a cable or a pair of tubes and watch their reaction. To me 250 is a good deal on a cable and if I can find a nos pair of telefunken cca's for that price I'm all about it.


 

 Ohhh god not the cable thing...
   
  Let me tell you a story recently they took 20 audiophiles set them down and said we are going to have you listen one set of interconnects is 1000.00 set the other is cheap see if you can pick out the better one..
  Well almost 90% of the audiophiles picked the cheap interconnect..Do you know what it was? they had taken RCA connectors and connected them to clothes hangars and set them up as an interconnect...  Never fall into the hype of expensive ass cables..
  Now that doesn't mean spend 10.00 on cheap stuff but as long as they are shieled and OFC or very well shielded Silver you can get either for less than 50.00... Now on the headphone side sadly they have this cornered if you want better cables you will pay..
  I do agree that most headphones can do with some better cables most from the manufacturer are poorly shielded. So sure go ahead and get some better headphone cables but when it comes to interconnects do yourself a favour save your money


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I'm sure you're aware of the Gungnir to be released in August. Also, good luck with the tubes helping tame the treble. IME no tubes had a impact in that area, the only thing
> that did help it was the Anaxilus mod. I still suffered too much fatigue and had to part with them. Shame they're an awesome can!


 

 In this case I have to disagree the Mullards will tame it as well as the Amperex . Also if you can find some Brimar's which are rare now they will also do the trick but thos 6N1p's are your major issue... axe them I know I had fun I threw like 4 sets out in the street and watched them burst quite fun..


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> ​ Mikiphile I've been using the socket savers since last oct. and I have found no difference in sound with them in, a good thing imo. I also picked up some feet (isolation and heat dissipation)and tube dampers from herbie's audio


 
  hahah cool looks like a spacecraft I like it


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Those "Telefunken" PCC88 sold by Upscale audio are actually made by Siemens in the 1970s.
> They are non <> bottoms with single halo getter.
> 
> Main sonic difference between Telefunken PCC88 and Siemens PCC88 are as follows :-
> ...


 

 Good write up I never wrote up anything on the PCC88's I have most of the ones you do ... I would agree with you on these the Lorenz are not as 3d as the 50's D Getters but have a all around better sound... Its kinda hard to say though depends on your audio chain...


----------



## Lorspeaker

wow...LYR + stagedac...u must be having a ball of a time...crisscrossing with great authority !


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> I mean this audiophile thingy is insane. Just as you think your system is now perfect, you find something that needs improving. Personally, i think im gonna need those socket savers as well. Even though I dont tube roll like you guys. I thought i was the only freak impressed by glowing tubes, so i didnt mention it in the first place. I like it when they light up the room
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Raiseit raise it not doesn't matter much since Heat rises the best way to cool the Lyr is to have it on a Flat surface the Aluminum acts like a heatsink it wont hurt to raise the Lyr but it's not a necessity at all.. And no you will not damage it at all... Mine has been laying flast for over a year on one of my audio stands and its just fine I do run the socket savers only reason really is to just roll easier as I switch weekly to mix up the sound...  have fun


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

lorspeaker said:


> ...crisscrossing with great authority !




Haha, you know it


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mrscary said:


> Ohhh god not the cable thing...
> 
> Let me tell you a story recently they took 20 audiophiles set them down and said we are going to have you listen one set of interconnects is 1000.00 set the other is cheap see if you can pick out the better one..
> Well almost 90% of the audiophiles picked the cheap interconnect..Do you know what it was? they had taken RCA connectors and connected them to clothes hangars and set them up as an interconnect...  Never fall into the hype of expensive ass cables..
> ...




I have to agree with you here. I bought a 1000+ interconnect (off audiogon for much less) and had a sub 100$ interconnect which I had been using. Bottom line I preferred the sub 100$ by quite a bit. Lesson learned. 
The one cable that did make a difference in my setup was a glass toslink vs a fiber one, was a noticeable improvement. Anyway sorry to get off topic folks, hopefully you can learn from my mistakes


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I have to agree with you here. I bought a 1000+ interconnect (off audiogon for much less) and had a sub 100$ interconnect which I had been using. Bottom line I preferred the later by quite a bit. Lesson learned.
> The one cable that did make a difference in my setup was a glass toslink vs a fiber one, was a noticeable improvement. Anyway sorry to get off topic folks, hopefully you can learn from my mistakes


 

 Also agree, but disagree, In a blind test, I too probably couldn't tell which one is more expensive than the other but I sure can tell which sound signature I like.
  I have not spent more than $50 on an interconnect and have now found some I like the sound of.
  I'll never spend $1k+ on a cable - but that doesn't mean I'll cast judgement on those who do.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

eddiek997 said:


> Also agree, but disagree, In a blind test, I too probably couldn't tell which one is more expensive than the other but I sure can tell which sound signature I like.
> I have not spent more than $50 on an interconnect and have now found some I like the sound of.
> I'll never spend $1k+ on a cable - but that doesn't mean I'll cast judgement on those who do.




No judgement, just trying to give my experience. I would much rather other folks buy them so I can read their impressions and keep my $. 
I do agree that cables can have different sound signatures though maybe due to material (silver/copper) but apparently it does measure sonically to graphs. So that's a whole nother debate


----------



## paradoxper

You mean/ment doesn't measure, correct?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

paradoxper said:


> You mean/ment doesn't measure, correct?




My bad, doesn't measure to graphs, correct.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> My bad, doesn't measure to graphs, correct.


 
  But definitely measures to ears.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i am a sucker for cables...but i have set a limit of 200-300 on such.
  To my ears, they definitely introduce sound flavor, and with few exceptions improve clarity..or speed or body...etcetc 
  The trick is to synergize the whole set up until i get a eureka when i put on the headfone.
   
  On the Lyr i switch between the zumother cord n the wireworld cord for different headfones...lol.
  Yah, i switch rcas too...until i hit the sweetspot. ( this cablerolling takes the place of tuberolling. )
   
  i know some will turn in their beds with such a post..keep turning.




   
   
  On the AKGQ701, the ALO cable upgraded the sound STUPENDOUSLY...the sorethroat is gone!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> i am a sucker for cables...but i have set a limit of 200-300 on such.
> To my ears, they definitely introduce sound flavor, and with few exceptions improve clarity..or speed or body...etcetc
> The trick is to synergize the whole set up until i get a eureka when i put on the headfone.
> 
> ...


 
  Cable rolling.


----------



## Striation

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> The Mullard line is the one thing that assist but with your DAC I am not so sure that will be the answer the Bugle boys also will help I myself would ditch that Fiio stuff.. You do not need to spend a ton on Dac's if you know the truth about what they do..
> But by looking at the specs I would say a 200.00 DAC will fix that mess... I personally would not suggest the BiForst due to its increased treble but again that can be tamed with  the Amperex or Mullards I would suggest the E*8CC Mullards first but the others are fine as well..
> If you are a USB user god forbid then maybe the Bifrost is your thing but to be honest once you get away from USB all together your sound improves significantly.. I myself use two DAC's one that is a high end very expensive studio Dac that does 448 conversion and
> my EE Minimax most of the time I use the Studio because it is transparent but that costs big bucks and is not even in the realm of most people.


 
  MrScary you said "I personally would not suggest the BiForst due to its increased treble".  That is the first I've ever heard of that.  Is that your own personal opinion or did it test out somewhere?
  Thanks, Stri.


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> i am a sucker for cables...but i have set a limit of 200-300 on such.
> To my ears, they definitely introduce sound flavor, and with few exceptions improve clarity..or speed or body...etcetc
> The trick is to synergize the whole set up until i get a eureka when i put on the headfone.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Which ALO interconnects are you talking bout? I got a pair of ALOs with nice RCA pins but i cannot figure out which ones are they exactly. I dont know which model it is. The outside is like black and white fibres and the pins are coated with black and red rubber (like all ALOs). Also, they are kinda short, 20 cm the most, which I think greatly improves the quality. Can anyone help me identify which model it is.
   
  The reason why I dont know is cos I bought them with the Lyr and Bifrost, they came as a friendly gesture.
   
  If that is the case with the Q701s, I believe it should be the same with the K701s which makes me quite happy.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Since we are on the topic of cables, I've been looking for RCA cables for the Lyr and Bifrost. Been trying to find like a 6 inch one but I can't find any for a cheap price. Anyone have any recommendations? I would definitely buy those 4 dollar ones from monoprice but 1' 1/2" is a bit too long for my taste haha


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Since we are on the topic of cables, I've been looking for RCA cables for the Lyr and Bifrost. Been trying to find like a 6 inch one but I can't find any for a cheap price. Anyone have any recommendations? I would definitely buy those 4 dollar ones from monoprice but 1' 1/2" is a bit too long for my taste haha


 
  Blue Jeans Cable would be a great choice.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> i am a sucker for cables...but i have set a limit of 200-300 on such.
> To my ears, they definitely introduce sound flavor, and with few exceptions improve clarity..or speed or body...etcetc
> The trick is to synergize the whole set up until i get a eureka when i put on the headfone.
> 
> ...


 

 As an Audio Engeineer I just laugh!! Its your money have fun imaging things


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Since we are on the topic of cables, I've been looking for RCA cables for the Lyr and Bifrost. Been trying to find like a 6 inch one but I can't find any for a cheap price. Anyone have any recommendations? I would definitely buy those 4 dollar ones from monoprice but 1' 1/2" is a bit too long for my taste haha


 

 Why do you care hahah if they are more than 6 inches? that just plain ridiculous


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Why do you care hahah if they are more than 6 inches? that just plain ridiculous


 
  I know it sounds pretty dumb but it was just so it looks cleaner and I wouldn't have to wrap the cables around. Most likely I'll be ordering the one from Monoprice because its a good deal and I'm a cheapo when it comes to cables haha


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Why do you care hahah if they are more than 6 inches? that just plain ridiculous


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I have to agree with you here. I bought a 1000+ interconnect (off audiogon for much less) and had a sub 100$ interconnect which I had been using. Bottom line I preferred the sub 100$ by quite a bit. Lesson learned.
> The one cable that did make a difference in my setup was a glass toslink vs a fiber one, was a noticeable improvement. Anyway sorry to get off topic folks, hopefully you can learn from my mistakes


 
  Wise man in the Professional audio world we all know better than to spend 1000.00 on a cable its a psychological ploy they use because people so badly want to believe that they have somehow magically enhanced this cable that it flows electrons better..
   
  Any good Sivler shielded cable hell you can get these off ebay for 50.00 pure silver interconnects or any OFC shielded interconnect is just fine.. Ohh I surely like silver interconnects but do I hear a difference ahhhh no!!! not at all


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Also agree, but disagree, In a blind test, I too probably couldn't tell which one is more expensive than the other but I sure can tell which sound signature I like.
> I have not spent more than $50 on an interconnect and have now found some I like the sound of.
> I'll never spend $1k+ on a cable - but that doesn't mean I'll cast judgement on those who do.


 

 Ohh I don't cast judgement people can waste their money all they want.. .


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





striation said:


> MrScary you said "I personally would not suggest the BiForst due to its increased treble".  That is the first I've ever heard of that.  Is that your own personal opinion or did it test out somewhere?
> Thanks, Stri.


 

 Its out their on reviews I have also tested but in all honesty man its so minute that it really doesnt matter I should have been more clear... In all honesty their such little difference with the newer DAC's that just put a bunch in a can and pick out a piece of paper with one and away you go..
  Now if you have a Dac that can be tailored to suit your sound which has tubes and Opamps then its different but all of these newer DAC's you are stuck with their sound signature.. so you then have to compensate with tubes or if you don't have a tube amp just settle for what it is...
   
  But on the bright side most newer Dac's all sound good so choose your poison


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> I know it sounds pretty dumb but it was just so it looks cleaner and I wouldn't have to wrap the cables around. Most likely I'll be ordering the one from Monoprice because its a good deal and I'm a cheapo when it comes to cables haha


 

 Now that makes sense  I was just giving you a hard time you have to understand man I have a dry sense of humour and have been on this thread since the beginning so I joke alot


----------



## MrScary

*One thing lets get these cables off the tube rolling thread take that nonsense to the cable thread and let everyone kill each other over them*


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> *One thing lets get these cables off the tube rolling thread take that nonsense to the cable thread and let everyone kill each other over them*


 
  Ummm can ya recommend a super cryo silver cable. Balanced would be preferable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I guess not...


----------



## netbususer

I'm not a Schiit Lyr owner (I do own the Valhalla and Bifrost, though... ) but am soon to have my Decware CSP2+ which has 3 6DJ8 tubes so I've been really enjoying this thread! Right now I have some 1960's Bugle Boys, some Telefunken PCC88's, some EH 6922's, and Sylvania 6922's. Looking forward to start the tube rolling process! I'll probably grab some Mullard CV2493's and a few of the current production Genalex Gold Lion's.
   
  What is everyones opinion on cryogenics on tubes... Do they actually make any difference? Anyone have any good tube shops as recommendations? I'm familiar with upscale audio, tube monger, and thetubedepot as well as everyone's favorite auction site...  Are these places good sources or are there horror stories out there with fake tubes?
   
  Anyways, I look forward to subscribing to this thread!


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ummm can ya recommend a super cryo silver cable. Balanced would be preferable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  LOL!!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

paradoxper said:


> Ummm can ya recommend a super cryo silver cable. Balanced would be preferable. :veryevil:
> 
> I guess not...




Haha I think I have just the thing for you


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

netbususer said:


> I'm not a Schiit Lyr owner (I do own the Valhalla and Bifrost, though... ) but am soon to have my Decware CSP2+ which has 3 6DJ8 tubes so I've been really enjoying this thread! Right now I have some 1960's Bugle Boys, some Telefunken PCC88's, some EH 6922's, and Sylvania 6922's. Looking forward to start the tube rolling process! I'll probably grab some Mullard CV2493's and a few of the current production Genalex Gold Lion's.
> 
> What is everyones opinion on cryogenics on tubes... Do they actually make any difference? Anyone have any good tube shops as recommendations? I'm familiar with upscale audio, tube monger, and thetubedepot as well as everyone's favorite auction site...  Are these places good sources or are there horror stories out there with fake tubes?
> 
> Anyways, I look forward to subscribing to this thread!




Welcome we do actually discuss tubes, sometimes 

I've bought from all the sellers mentioned above without issue of service or bad tubes, eBay is eBay.

Cryo tubes is another debate, some say it make the tube sound thin. I have a pair of cv2493 that I had cryo treated for curiositys sake. I can't really comment cause I haven't an uncryoed pair but it sounds warm and thick to me. Who knows


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Welcome we do actually discuss tubes, sometimes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Umm, no? I've only recently heard talk of cable rolling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






   
  x2 on quality of sellers. But I've had identical tubes compared. One had cryo and the other didn't. No difference to my ears. YMMV


----------



## davidgotsa

Do you guys know if anyone has measured the same headphones with different tubes and published those measurements? 
   
  And also, what are some good places to buy tubes here in Europe? 
   
  Thanks.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Umm, no? I've only recently heard talk of cable rolling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  just saying after this thread my super cryoed silver cable up might be up for sale


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> just saying after this thread my super cryoed silver cable up might be up for sale


 
  Why are you departing with it? Are you buying a pure silver cable with platinum bits in it?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

paradoxper said:


> Why are you departing with it? Are you buying a pure silver cable with platinum bits in it?




I see your on to me....


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I see your on to me....


 
  We could've had this be a done deal. Now I'll just wait for mrscary to yell at us.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Lol


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





netbususer said:


> I'm not a Schiit Lyr owner (I do own the Valhalla and Bifrost, though... ) but am soon to have my Decware CSP2+ which has 3 6DJ8 tubes so I've been really enjoying this thread! Right now I have some 1960's Bugle Boys, some Telefunken PCC88's, some EH 6922's, and Sylvania 6922's. Looking forward to start the tube rolling process! I'll probably grab some Mullard CV2493's and a few of the current production Genalex Gold Lion's.
> 
> What is everyones opinion on cryogenics on tubes... Do they actually make any difference? Anyone have any good tube shops as recommendations? I'm familiar with upscale audio, tube monger, and thetubedepot as well as everyone's favorite auction site...  Are these places good sources or are there horror stories out there with fake tubes?
> 
> Anyways, I look forward to subscribing to this thread!


 

 No the Cryogenic process does not seem to make them sound better it may make them last longer but the ones that I had Cyroed I threw into the street and let them explode so maybe by Freezing the metal somehow it makes them last longer i dont know..
  They do the same thing to ahhh Cables and hahah also Guitar strings now I have had all of these and I can you "It makes no differnce" especially with cables and guitar strings in fact the last set of Cryo guitar strings I got sounded so bad that I contacted the company I had 3 sets of them
  and they sounded dull and weird... hahah


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> just saying after this thread my super cryoed silver cable up might be up for sale


 

 I would sell them for a profit as soon as people see Cryo they think that it somehow is magical! Now for some parts and some things their are theories that claim this somehow is better.
  maybe I will start a company called Antarctica Cables and have them like airdropped into the freezing cold and then picked up 6 months later and sell them for 4000.00 a piece... I bet ya they would sell like wildfire... hahaha


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> We could've had this be a done deal. Now I'll just wait for mrscary to yell at us.


 

 I don't yell I laugh!! hahah Audiophiles are the funnies people of all in the world of music creation their are quantifiable measures based upon large statistical numbers so lets say a new device comes out well its tested to all hell
  by everyone torn apart over and over then finally it either fails or it gains enough significance to make profit . Sadly int he world of Audiophile haha you do not have that many people testing them a few hundred and then they are all split on it..
  Companies can get away with this int he headphone world... No so much in the Stereo world of Auiophiles as their are many many more people testing and tearing things apart same concept....
   
  Next time you are thinking you an Audiophile stop for one sec and think about this... What is your source the real source? Is is a Itune? a Flac a CD? well all these are compromises that were made eons ago... Now Flac and CD accept for HDTracks and a few other sites that have music  that is in 24/96 or 24/192 have better quality. Still its not analog as soon as you convert music into 1's and 0's you loose the nuances that are only done via Analogue means... So over time we have now accepted MP3's and CD's as "Audiophile" and whats funnier is we all have DAC's some of us like me that support up to 448 and what for? hahaha the only sounds that are recorded that way are for BluRay effects... Even most of HDTracks stuff is not natively recorded at 96k its actually all quite  funny.. I was telling Paradoxper the other day you know I do session work n my spare time and its funny when I am recording a Synth part of Guitar part the first thing that comes to my mind is ... No one will ever hear this the way it sounds now.. ever! Once it is compressed and fiddled with it loses the original nuaces of analogue. But we have what we have so we have to make the best of it... Best thing to do is color with tubes and DAC's that have a spatial sound so that it sounds more real.... Food for thought


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I don't yell I laugh!! hahah Audiophiles are the funnies people of all in the world of music creation their are quantifiable measures based upon large statistical numbers so lets say a new device comes out well its tested to all hell
> by everyone torn apart over and over then finally it either fails or it gains enough significance to make profit . Sadly int he world of Audiophile haha you do not have that many people testing them a few hundred and then they are all split on it..
> Companies can get away with this int he headphone world... No so much in the Stereo world of Auiophiles as their are many many more people testing and tearing things apart same concept....
> 
> Next time you are thinking you an Audiophile stop for one sec and think about this... What is your source the real source? Is is a Itune? a Flac a CD? well all these are compromises that were made eons ago... Now Flac and CD accept for HDTracks and a few other sites that have music  that is in 24/96 or 24/192 have better quality. Still its not analog as soon as you convert music into 1's and 0's you loose the nuances that are only done via Analogue means... So over time we have now accepted MP3's and CD's as "Audiophile" and whats funnier is we all have DAC's some of us like me that support up to 448 and what for? hahaha the only sounds that are recorded that way are for BluRay effects... Even most of HDTracks stuff is not natively recorded at 96k its actually all quite  funny.. I was telling Paradoxper the other day you know I do session work n my spare time and its funny when I am recording a Synth part of Guitar part the first thing that comes to my mind is ... No one will ever hear this the way it sounds now.. ever! Once it is compressed and fiddled with it loses the original nuaces of analogue. But we have what we have so we have to make the best of it... Best thing to do is color with tubes and DAC's that have a spatial sound so that it sounds more real.... Food for thought


 

 That's why AIX records was born. Try it. You'll hear the finest audio recordings available.Period. You'll hear instruments that actually sound like the real thing, as if you were there. iTrax.com is their download service. Makes the audiophile thing a much more real proposition.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I don't yell I laugh!! hahah Audiophiles are the funnies people of all in the world of music creation their are quantifiable measures based upon large statistical numbers so lets say a new device comes out well its tested to all hell
> by everyone torn apart over and over then finally it either fails or it gains enough significance to make profit . Sadly int he world of Audiophile haha you do not have that many people testing them a few hundred and then they are all split on it..
> Companies can get away with this int he headphone world... No so much in the Stereo world of Auiophiles as their are many many more people testing and tearing things apart same concept....
> 
> Next time you are thinking you an Audiophile stop for one sec and think about this... What is your source the real source? Is is a Itune? a Flac a CD? well all these are compromises that were made eons ago... Now Flac and CD accept for HDTracks and a few other sites that have music  that is in 24/96 or 24/192 have better quality. Still its not analog as soon as you convert music into 1's and 0's you loose the nuances that are only done via Analogue means... So over time we have now accepted MP3's and CD's as "Audiophile" and whats funnier is we all have DAC's some of us like me that support up to 448 and what for? hahaha the only sounds that are recorded that way are for BluRay effects... Even most of HDTracks stuff is not natively recorded at 96k its actually all quite  funny.. I was telling Paradoxper the other day you know I do session work n my spare time and its funny when I am recording a Synth part of Guitar part the first thing that comes to my mind is ... No one will ever hear this the way it sounds now.. ever! Once it is compressed and fiddled with it loses the original nuaces of analogue. But we have what we have so we have to make the best of it... Best thing to do is color with tubes and DAC's that have a spatial sound so that it sounds more real.... Food for thought


 
  Ah, you know we were pestering/teasing at ya. 
   
  Yes, very true mrscary (And thank you for opening my eyes). This is why I am trying to shift my focus to more music and trying to focus on less gear. Speaking with a few people that know music, and gear.(Professionally) FWIW
   
  I'm trying to let my lust for other gear go. Most of the stuff out there espec high tier amp/DACs is "junk" and just gouges your pockets. But it's hard to ignore that little voice in you head that badgers you.


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I don't yell I laugh!! hahah Audiophiles are the funnies people of all in the world of music creation their are quantifiable measures based upon large statistical numbers so lets say a new device comes out well its tested to all hell
> by everyone torn apart over and over then finally it either fails or it gains enough significance to make profit . Sadly int he world of Audiophile haha you do not have that many people testing them a few hundred and then they are all split on it..
> Companies can get away with this int he headphone world... No so much in the Stereo world of Auiophiles as their are many many more people testing and tearing things apart same concept....
> 
> Next time you are thinking you an Audiophile stop for one sec and think about this... What is your source the real source? Is is a Itune? a Flac a CD? well all these are compromises that were made eons ago... Now Flac and CD accept for HDTracks and a few other sites that have music  that is in 24/96 or 24/192 have better quality. Still its not analog as soon as you convert music into 1's and 0's you loose the nuances that are only done via Analogue means... So over time we have now accepted MP3's and CD's as "Audiophile" and whats funnier is we all have DAC's some of us like me that support up to 448 and what for? hahaha the only sounds that are recorded that way are for BluRay effects... Even most of HDTracks stuff is not natively recorded at 96k its actually all quite  funny.. I was telling Paradoxper the other day you know I do session work n my spare time and its funny when I am recording a Synth part of Guitar part the first thing that comes to my mind is ... No one will ever hear this the way it sounds now.. ever! Once it is compressed and fiddled with it loses the original nuaces of analogue. But we have what we have so we have to make the best of it... Best thing to do is color with tubes and DAC's that have a spatial sound so that it sounds more real.... Food for thought


 
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ah, you know we were pestering/teasing at ya.
> 
> Yes, very true mrscary (And thank you for opening my eyes). This is why I am trying to shift my focus to more music and trying to focus on less gear. Speaking with a few people that know music, and gear.(Professionally) FWIW
> 
> I'm trying to let my lust for other gear go. Most of the stuff out there espec high tier amp/DACs is "junk" and just gouges your pockets. But it's hard to ignore that little voice in you head that badgers you.


 
   
  Well.. unlike you guys who change amps, tweak cables and recable headphones, tube-roll and what not, my audiophile quest consists of finding the gear I like, making the most out of it and just enjoying the well recorded music.
   
  Since I got into this serious thingy, Ive been trying to set up a good sounding rig which suits my principles: 1. excellent sound as per my preferences; 2. remain practical in terms of size and "portability", since I am a student moving every 6 months; 3. try not to spend ridiculous amounts of money on it. 
   
  I know its a bit hard to follow these rules, but somehow it worked out for me. I know I will be buying new stuff in the future.. cos it does get rather boring listening to the same setup after a while, but im fine for now.
   
  Regarding the audiophile myths such as: burning in, cables, analog vs digital, i have my own opinions, despite not being an engineer or something. I have experienced each of these phenomena, and I know what the difference is. IMHO, i do think cables make a difference, especially if you compare a $2 ****ty cable to a OFC cable with good conductivity.
   
  I personally hate consumer products, that is one of the reasons why I liked this hobby. Here you get to play with gear that might be very expensive, but I would never say its overpriced.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> Well.. unlike you guys who change amps, tweak cables and recable headphones, tube-roll and what not, my audiophile quest consists of finding the gear I like, making the most out of it and just enjoying the well recorded music.
> 
> Since I got into this serious thingy, Ive been trying to set up a good sounding rig which suits my principles: 1. excellent sound as per my preferences; 2. remain practical in terms of size and "portability", since I am a student moving every 6 months; 3. try not to spend ridiculous amounts of money on it.
> 
> ...


 
  I think most of us tube roll, invest in cables, etc... because it brings some fun to the enjoyment. I am trying to push thoughts or plans of new gear less and focus more on buying 
  music. After all the music is what it's really about.
   
  I have to disagree. There is plenty of gear out there that is IMO severely price gouging. Especially for how superior it is "supposed" to be. Some of these companies need to be more grounded,
  the touting of the buzzwords marketing BS is disgusting. But I guess we all need to make money, so it's justified (right)
   
  In the end if you're happy and getting enjoyment out of your system that's all that matters. This hobby is subjective so no one should be able to tell you need better gear and so on.
  Same goes for people who like to bring criticism for choices of using cables, mods, etc. It's your money, it's your choice and it's your enjoyment in the end.


----------



## SeaHawk

MrScary - did the cryo tube at least bounce before they shattered?  Not sure I'm buying into the longevity bit and it seems you have first-hand experience here...


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> That's why AIX records was born. Try it. You'll hear the finest audio recordings available.Period. You'll hear instruments that actually sound like the real thing, as if you were there. iTrax.com is their download service. Makes the audiophile thing a much more real proposition.


 

 Yeah they are on the right track the sad thing is man is that most mainstream music sadly the pop stuff or should say "Radio Friendly" just never seems to be put into High quality.. In theory the higher the Bitrate and conversion the closer to analogue you get..
  If anything I think that every artist should have masters in atleast 384 but most of the time it is 192 and then mixed down.. Then the masters never get released as music to the public because of size? I mean a 192k music DVD is huge now for most of us thats not a prob and we would gladly accept the large downloads but the majority of the world does not have fast Internet connections I hope someday we see atleat 96k for all music as an option to download that is good enough most people cannot hear any difference beyond that... we will see in time....


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> MrScary - did the cryo tube at least bounce before they shattered?  Not sure I'm buying into the longevity bit and it seems you have first-hand experience here...


 

 hmmm I know a couple bounced once hahah which ones Im not sure I threw them very hard.. hahah... You know I have had NOS tubes that were tested perfect go out in a week.. and then I have some that just never stop I have one set of Mullard E88CC's
  that have to have way over 6000 hours on them and they just keep going and whats funny is the top is so black its funny but they sound just fine no noise nothing but then I have a set of Valvo's that only have like 400 hours on them and they are already making noise its like a toss up man with analog its like your car brakes sometimes they last a long time sometimes they just go out in 10,000 miles these elements like tubes in the analog world are a crap shoot.. I have one Guitar Amp that uses EL34 tubes I had the amp maybe hmmm 2 weeks and the tubes already went buy buy... and their is no warranty on tubes... luckily the EL34's are not expensive


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> Well.. unlike you guys who change amps, tweak cables and recable headphones, tube-roll and what not, my audiophile quest consists of finding the gear I like, making the most out of it and just enjoying the well recorded music.
> 
> Since I got into this serious thingy, Ive been trying to set up a good sounding rig which suits my principles: 1. excellent sound as per my preferences; 2. remain practical in terms of size and "portability", since I am a student moving every 6 months; 3. try not to spend ridiculous amounts of money on it.
> 
> ...


 

 Ohh indeed it is overpriced and I do not think anyone is arguing that a 2.00 cable is going to sound as good as a 50.00 cable. As I said before cables make difference in the shielding the quality of the copper and the quality of the silver and the quality of the shielding but this does not warrant a 500.00 price for a pair of Interconnects.. Burning in cables has some merit with "some shielding" but it is a scientific theory not proven.. But for us guys that are Musicians and stuff and Engineers I hardly break in my guitar cables or XLR or balanced connections I plug them and away I go and they never sound different ever. And no I do not buy cheap stuff I buy the best but again the reason things are so expensive in audiophile world is supply and demand.. its simple.. In the Music creation arena you can get way better DAC's and cables you just gotta know where to look... Of course you know if we said that Jim Bobs cables are just awesome and spacious.. Then someone tears them apart and see's they are just shielded OFC cables...what to say.. I would agree that you are wise since you are a student it makes little sense to settle down and start building a system but one of the reasons for tube rolling that has been around forever is the fact that you can tailor the sound you want..Sadly those days are going away we all will be forced to use what they give us...Cant change opamps or tubes then the only thing you can change is your source material to higher quality music or your headphones.. Or cables thats coming and its sad... Soon all the vintage tubes will be gone and the ones that are not will be so expensive nobody will buy them..


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Ohh indeed it is overpriced and I do not think anyone is arguing that a 2.00 cable is going to sound as good as a 50.00 cable. As I said before cables make difference in the shielding the quality of the copper and the quality of the silver and the quality of the shielding but this does not warrant a 500.00 price for a pair of Interconnects.. Burning in cables has some merit with "some shielding" but it is a scientific theory not proven.. But for us guys that are Musicians and stuff and Engineers I hardly break in my guitar cables or XLR or balanced connections I plug them and away I go and they never sound different ever. And no I do not buy cheap stuff I buy the best but again the reason things are so expensive in audiophile world is supply and demand.. its simple.. In the Music creation arena you can get way better DAC's and cables you just gotta know where to look... Of course you know if we said that Jim Bobs cables are just awesome and spacious.. Then someone tears them apart and see's they are just shielded OFC cables...what to say.. I would agree that you are wise since you are a student it makes little sense to settle down and start building a system but one of the reasons for tube rolling that has been around forever is the fact that you can tailor the sound you want..Sadly those days are going away we all will be forced to use what they give us...Cant change opamps or tubes then the only thing you can change is your source material to higher quality music or your headphones.. Or cables thats coming and its sad... Soon all the vintage tubes will be gone and the ones that are not will be so expensive nobody will buy them..


 
  (First of all, sorry for taking this totally of topic)
   
  I definitely agree with you on most points. It is true that certain products made by certain companies (talking bout the small production, high quality stuff) use the advantage of "not being a commercial brand", to sell their products to people like me. Ok... this is actually quite interesting, its psychology at its best.
   
  I hate commercial products totally (i despise louis vuitton, rolex, bose etc) exactly for being overpriced. On the other hand, you have the companies which have a very small market share and sell "high end" gear (or very exclusive products such as watches, jewellery). These companies target people like me, but what we dont see is that they are doing exactly the same thing. Selling an "exclusive product" for an even more ridiculous price than the commercial brands. Its marketing in a very sneaky manner. 
   
  What I think I would say.. is that I would much rather spend even more money for the non commercial high end things, rather than buying something commercial. But thats just me.
   
  (Tuberolling... ok back to the subject)
   
  Regarding tube rolling. Its the first time I tube roll, and I was shocked when I realized the flexibility you can have with one amp. I wasnt expecting such big differences between similar tubes. The ECC88 made in Czechoslovakia sounds totally different than the CV2492 Mullard. The combinations are endless. 
   
  These things do infact bring a lot of fun and into the whole thing. 
   
  One question regarding these old tubes. If a normal lifespan of a tube is 5000h, how long can I expect them to last if they are 20-30 years old? Since most of these good tubes are in fact ancient. Arent any good tubes still in production? 
   
  This world needs to screwing understand that its not all about Mac and iPods and white shiny portable devices... Certain things in the past are so much better than they are today. *They don't make em like that any more.* How can people be so ignorant and think its normal to dispose off your gear so fast? Well, I guess its normal cos without consumption, the world would go in a crisis never seen before.


----------



## songmic

Your statement not only applies to audio gear, but to music in general as well. Back in the old days we had bands like Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Queen, Nirvana rocking the world. Now we live in an era where singers - though I hardly find this word appropriate for the likes of which - such as Justin Bieber and Nicki Minaj make it to the top billboard charts, and the letter "M" in MTV no longer stands for music.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *mikiphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Certain things in the past are so much better than they are today. *They don't make em like that any more.*


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Your statement not only applies to audio gear, but to music in general as well. Back in the old days we had bands like Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Queen, Nirvana rocking the world. Now we live in an era where singers - though I hardly find this word appropriate for the likes of which - such as Justin Bieber and Nicki Minaj make it to the top billboard charts, and the letter "M" in MTV no longer stands for music.


 
   
  My friend.. you even know the order of my favourites. Pink Floyd is the reason why I am not part of the ignorant majority of people who listen to Lady Gaga. 
   
  I guess I need to thank my parents for educating me correctly. First beer when I was 2 yo. Playing with Mark Levinsons (we didnt actually own one) by the age of 4 and listening to the likes of Beatles in elementary, and Pink Floyd in high school.
   
Pink Floyd are much more than a band, their lyrics are much more than poetry and their work is much more than music. Maybe some people will understand what I mean.


----------



## davidgotsa

I'm not sure how serious you were, but to call people who have other preferences "ignorant" is about as ignorant as it gets. 
   
  Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> My friend.. you even know the order of my favourites. Pink Floyd is the reason why I am not part of the ignorant majority of people who listen to Lady Gaga.


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





davidgotsa said:


> I'm not sure how serious you were, but to call people who have other preferences "ignorant" is about as ignorant as it gets.


 
  I was dead serious. Listening to the likes of Lady gaga is not a matter of preference my friend, its a matter of consuming the s**t of our current capitalist society. Kids currently being raised by their parents who work long hours and barely have time to feed them, will never learn what real artistic values are. Doesn't only go for music, for many other things. 
   
  Its not that I am an anti-globalist or a socialist. Unfortunately I am a big capitalist myself, but the only difference is that I had the opportunity to see and learn what is to be truly appreciated and what is to be considered absolute rubbish. So many "MTV Artists" from the beginning end of the 90s, beginning of 2000 and onwards have been totally forgotten and their music is considered demode, while during their time, they were considered legendary. The same will apply to Lady gaga in a couple of years, mark my words!
   
  Just as I mentioned, I am a capitalist. I can see a very interesting pattern in all of the music being released today. All of the albums or singles currently released are exactly like products companies place to suit the demand on the market. Real artists, just like audiophile companies, just cannot compete with that. Currently popular music is just the means for companies to sell their products (lady gaga beats, justin beiber t-shirt, or whatever) and sell music itself. PERIOD.


----------



## MickeyVee

There's lots of choice out there. I listen to GaGa along with Pink Floyd, Supertramp, Styx, U2, AC/DC, Patricia Barber, Madonna and a whole lot of retro 80's and 90's stuff. I choose what I listen to and do not listen to but I really don't bash what I don't like or even hate. It would be a pretty cruel world if we only had to listen to what someone else decides is good.


----------



## netbususer

So I've managed to get through the first 50 pages or so of this thread over the past few days and wish there wasn't so much more to go through!
   
  Whatever happened to the 6BZ7 tubes? Did everyone decide they are awesome and continue to use them? Were they too thin and people decided against it? Did they start frying Lyr's?  I'll probably end up grabbing 6x CV2492's this week just for good measure. That's one downside to the CSP2+ vs. the Lyr. (I have 3 tubes to buy instead of 2!)


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





netbususer said:


> That's one downside to the CSP2+ vs. the Lyr. (I have 3 tubes to buy instead of 2!)


 
   
  Hi there!
   
  For the CSP2+, the greatest impact would be the single input preamp tube in front.
   
  You just need 1 very good tube in front. Either a Siemens CCa or the Lorenz PCC88 Stuttgart Germany.
  Just like the Lyr, many people including myself prefer the Lorenz PCC88 over the ultra expensive Siemens CCa.
   
  The 2 tubes at the back for the L and R channel can be of a different brand and make as compared with the single.
  It is therefore actually much easier to tube roll a CSP2+ vs other amps which require 2 matched tubes.


----------



## MLee

Brand new to tube rolling and have a question.  I bought a pair of Amperex Bugle Boys, 1960s large halo getter type, for my Lyr.  There's a bit of static in one of them when the volume is very low, then from about 7:00 to 11:00 it seems to go away, but when the volume knob is turned past 11 it comes back.  These are NOS from a reputable dealer mentioned here quite often.  My question is that normal, will it go away after xx hours of burn in, or should I ask for a replacement (They have a 30 day return policy).  The pins look pretty clean, but should I try to clean them up a little?  With the GE tubes that came with the Lyr there's no noise at all so I think it's definitely the tube, but having no experience tube rolling I'm not sure what to do.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





mlee said:


> Brand new to tube rolling and have a question.  I bought a pair of Amperex Bugle Boys, 1960s large halo getter type, for my Lyr.  There's a bit of static in one of them when the volume is very low, then from about 7:00 to 11:00 it seems to go away, but when the volume knob is turned past 11 it comes back.  These are NOS from a reputable dealer mentioned here quite often.  My question is that normal, will it go away after xx hours of burn in, or should I ask for a replacement (They have a 30 day return policy).  The pins look pretty clean, but should I try to clean them up a little?  With the GE tubes that came with the Lyr there's no noise at all so I think it's definitely the tube, but having no experience tube rolling I'm not sure what to do.


 
   
  I had a similar problem with a pair of Amperex Bugle Boys. Slight low level buzz from one tube. Cleared up within a day. You may just want to let them burn in for a day or two then return if problem persists.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hi there!
> 
> For the CSP2+, the greatest impact would be the single input preamp tube in front.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Those Lorenz PCC88 Stuttgarts have become quite hard to find. Found one seller selling a couple on Ebay but they do not seem to be a matched pair.


----------



## MLee

Thanks for the suggestion Carlsan.  I'll do it.


----------



## MLee

Update to my post - Carlsan's suggestion worked, I let them burn in for about 10 hours and the noise is gone. Now to sit back and enjoy them, and then maybe try something else.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> My friend.. you even know the order of my favourites. Pink Floyd is the reason why I am not part of the ignorant majority of people who listen to Lady Gaga.
> 
> I guess I need to thank my parents for educating me correctly. First beer when I was 2 yo. Playing with Mark Levinsons (we didnt actually own one) by the age of 4 and listening to the likes of Beatles in elementary, and Pink Floyd in high school.
> 
> Pink Floyd are much more than a band, their lyrics are much more than poetry and their work is much more than music. Maybe some people will understand what I mean.


 

 Wow you guys are really hitting home with this conversation can I play too?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Those Lorenz PCC88 Stuttgarts have become quite hard to find. Found one seller selling a couple on Ebay but they do not seem to be a matched pair.


 

 Carlsan are they Lorenz Stugartt's if they are not matched grab them anyway dude matched matched not most of these guys that supposedly match tubes on ebay are liars so if the pirce is reasonable take a chance if not give me the link I will?


----------



## MrScary

Being a Musician I agree with you guys. Most of the commercial so called "Radio Friendly" music sucks nowadays I remember a time back in the 80's when I turned on the Radio and heard Boston I heard Dokken and and Slaughter and all the great 80's groups now I do not turn on the radio  ever.. It actually makes me gag... My niece is so up Biebers Arse all her walls are have posters with him.. So many people do not realize that the best groups of all time are still around they just went overseas the USA market is horrid for music in general and that is popular music...Sad


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Carlsan are they Lorenz Stugartt's if they are not matched grab them anyway dude matched matched not most of these guys that supposedly match tubes on ebay are liars so if the pirce is reasonable take a chance if not give me the link I will?


 

 Thanks, not sure if they are Stugartts, I emailed the guy and he said he was going to find out then never got back to me. For all I know they are Lorenz from the Nish Yugoslavia plant. Those are fairly easy to find.


----------



## Carlsan

As a side note to the music conversation, I've been around for some time, at various times have been into Zeppelin, Floyd, Beatles, Who, and all those big 70's rock groups. Saw a ton of live music when I was in high school. Then I got into groups like The Clash, Jam, Gang of Four etc., got to see many of them as well. Through the eighties, I listened to The Smiths, New Order, Echo, and the alternative New Wave bands of the time. During this time and into the 90's I was a club DJ and got to play some of the best club music ever made as well as seeing everyone from REM, Beastie Boys, Nirvana, NIN, and countless others within a club atmosphere. I no longer go to shows but I still find great music. No, I don't find it in the top 40 charts, but then again, rarely has that been the case for me.
  We all have different musical taste, and some of what one person would call excellent somebody else would call crap. I'll learned over the years that the best strategy is to just keep an open ear, and if it hits the mark, than that is a truly wonderful thing, otherwise walk away.  Enough said.
   
  I think if anyone here wants to experiment with music they may not necessarily hear, the place to go is to these threads, the good and the bad are all listed, but for some reason, somebody finds this music worth noting, and so it may also click with you.
   
  See:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/253245/what-are-you-listening-to-right-now-new-thread-new-rules-please-read-them
   
  and
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/527548/flawless-albums


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Thanks, not sure if they are Stugartts, I emailed the guy and he said he was going to find out then never got back to me. For all I know they are Lorenz from the Nish Yugoslavia plant. Those are fairly easy to find.


 

 Yeah I doubt they are Stugartts the story behind them is interesting they were only made for a short time for Lorenz radios back in the 60's they may have farmed out a few for other things that'w why we see so few of them.. Im sure their is someone with a basement full of tubes and in some dusty spider infested corner are some primo Stugartts. hahah but this is probably me just having a dream.


----------



## MickeyVee

Even though I do not have a Lyr yet, I have been following this thread and when something looked hot and got great praise (and the price was reasonable), I pulled the trigger on them.. No Lyr yet but here are the tubes I have..
   
  Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 Gray Shield 1960s Mint NOS with Etched Brown Label (matched pair)
  Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 A-frame, dimpled disc getter, PQ label ( 1972 & 1973, matched pair)
   
  Hopefully I've read/chosen well.  Doe to some house commitments, I won't be getting the Lyr until the fall though I am really looking forward to it!


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Even though I do not have a Lyr yet, I have been following this thread and when something looked hot and got great praise (and the price was reasonable), I pulled the trigger on them.. No Lyr yet but here are the tubes I have..
> 
> Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 Gray Shield 1960s Mint NOS with Etched Brown Label (matched pair)
> Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 A-frame, dimpled disc getter, PQ label ( 1972 & 1973, matched pair)
> ...


 
   
  LOL, if you change your mind on the LYR, message me and I'll buy those Lorenz Stutgarts off of you


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mickeyvee said:


> Even though I do not have a Lyr yet, I have been following this thread and when something looked hot and got great praise (and the price was reasonable), I pulled the trigger on them.. No Lyr yet but here are the tubes I have..
> 
> Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 Gray Shield 1960s Mint NOS with Etched Brown Label (matched pair)
> Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 A-frame, dimpled disc getter, PQ label ( 1972 & 1973, matched pair)
> ...




Wow the fall, you have more patience than me. Your sitting on some good tubes, I have 2 out of the 3. the Lorenz sound quite different from the amperex, should make for some fun a/bing in the fall. Something to look forward to I suppose


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Even though I do not have a Lyr yet, I have been following this thread and when something looked hot and got great praise (and the price was reasonable), I pulled the trigger on them.. No Lyr yet but here are the tubes I have..
> 
> Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 Gray Shield 1960s Mint NOS with Etched Brown Label (matched pair)
> Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 A-frame, dimpled disc getter, PQ label ( 1972 & 1973, matched pair)
> ...


 
  Really jealous, I should have done that. I didn't realize tubes make that much of a difference. Now I'm struggling to find Lorenz Stuttgart or any good tube at a cheap price. I'm in the same boat though, I won't be able to order the Bifrost because there is no new deals until probably August.


----------



## MickeyVee

No, actually, I'm not patient.. just purchased the HE-400.. it was that or the Lyr.  Sold off my HD25 & Silver Dragon cable.  Since I have a half decent AMP/DAC, I chose to go for the HE-400. No regrets, loving it.  I'm just hoping for good synergy with the Lyr/tubes and HD650 & HE-400. I'm planning on using the Matrix Mini-i as the DAC and possibly going for the Bifrost (or getting the Wadia 121 for my A/V system and use my DLIII for my HP system) next year. Glad I got the tubes at a good price.. looks like they're getting rare..
   
  Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Wow the fall, you have more patience than me. Your sitting on some good tubes, I have 2 out of the 3. the Lorenz sound quite different from the amperex, should make for some fun a/bing in the fall. Something to look forward to I suppose


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Yeah I doubt they are Stugartts the story behind them is interesting they were only made for a short time for Lorenz radios back in the 60's they may have farmed out a few for other things that'w why we see so few of them.. Im sure their is someone with a basement full of tubes and in some dusty spider infested corner are some primo Stugartts. hahah but this is probably me just having a dream.


 
  I managed to dig out some history behind the Lorenz company and their vacuum tubes.
   
  During the era of WW2, the Lorenz company was heavily involved in the German Air Force. This is contrasted with Telefunken which was heavily involved in the German Navy and Army.
  The Lorenz company was one of the pioneers in German Radar Technology during WW2. -> although the British would deny this. 
  One of their R&D specialisation in vacuum tube technology was in increasing the "sensitivity" of German Radar.
   
  I think their R&D focus on increasing sensitivity explains why the Lorenz vacuum tubes have such a special "immersive" quality in audio even when compared against the famous Telefunken or Siemens.
  For those who have not sampled the Lorenz tubes, basically their tubes have a special knack of recreating the original ambient space in the audio recording.
  This can perhaps explain why Lorenz tubes can pick up minute details in the surroundings during the original recordings.
  The listener is transported to the venue with all the associated audio 3D effects.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> I managed to dig out some history behind the Lorenz company and their vacuum tubes.
> 
> During the era of WW2, the Lorenz company was heavily involved in the German Air Force. This is contrasted with Telefunken which was heavily involved in the German Navy and Army.
> The Lorenz company was one of the pioneers in German Radar Technology during WW2. -> although the British would deny this.
> ...


 
   
  From your research, did you find references to the different manufacturing plants and quality? As I posted earlier, PCC88  tubes produced by them in the former Yugoslavia are available.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> From your research, did you find references to the different manufacturing plants and quality? As I posted earlier, PCC88  tubes produced by them in the former Yugoslavia are available.


 
  The original Lorenz company was bought over by ITT in 1930s but it continued to operate and produce good quality vacuum tubes independently (i.e. on its own) in Stuttgart.
  In 1958, ITT reorganised its German operations into a company called _Standard Elektrik Lorenz_ (or SEL).
  That is around the time that Lorenz stopped making tubes on its own and started buying and repackaging the vacuum tubes of other companies.
  This was a common practice so we have Siemens making tubes for Telefunken and RCA for e.g.
   
  Their company history explains why only the Lorenz Stuttgart made tubes are of such high quality and also why those ITT Lorenz and SEL Lorenz are so inferior.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Cool thanks for looking into the history soth, interesting stuff


----------



## JoeyRusso

Instead of the usual ranting about poor customer service, I thought I'd share a positive experience for a change.
   
  A while back I ordered two pair of Amperex tubes, a pair of Orange Globes and a pair of Bugle Boys.  The Orange globes were perfect and sounded fantastic.  The Bugle boys unfortunately came with a weird hum.  I contacted the seller (mercedesman6572) on Ebay and he offered to replace them, so off they went.  I received my replacement pair promptly, but unfortunately one of them was making a sizzling, popping sound.  Once again I contacted Ron, and this time, he sent me out two more pair to try and asked me to keep the pair that sounded the best.  Needless to say, I now have a fantastic pair of Bugle Boys in my Lyr and I couldn't be happier.
   
   So if you happen upon a pair of tubes offered by Ron - mercedesman6572 on Ebay, take comfort in the fact that he won't be satisfied until you are.


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Thanks, not sure if they are Stugartts, I emailed the guy and he said he was going to find out then never got back to me. For all I know they are Lorenz from the Nish Yugoslavia plant. Those are fairly easy to find.


 
   
  My friend, now that you mentioned Elektronska Industrija Nis.. I was born 1h from there, and I know some people in my country that have a HUGE stockpile of those tubes.. and some of them are considered quite good. 
   
  Hmmm.. I guess thank you for givin me a very bright idea. I will be heading back to Macedonia in a month and I will explore some opportunities. Ive heard that some of the Ei tubes are quite good, and sought after.


----------



## Striation

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Thanks, not sure if they are Stugartts, I emailed the guy and he said he was going to find out then never got back to me. For all I know they are Lorenz from the Nish Yugoslavia plant. Those are fairly easy to find.


 
  I have a trio of Lorenz PCC88's that say right on the tubes Made In Germany.  Hopefully this makes it a little clearer on what you are looking at or buying.
   
  Good Luck,
  Stri


----------



## Striation

Just got some new NOS 6DJ8's IEC / Mullards.  What a great contrast to the PCC88's I've been listening to (no not the Lorenz I spoke of 
  That's what I love about rolling.  Switch out your tubes and your music sounds like a different mix and so many different sounds come to the forefront.  Vocals really come to the front with these guys.  And yes the Mullards are fatter sounding.  I dig 'em!!


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





striation said:


> I have a trio of Lorenz PCC88's that say right on the tubes Made In Germany.  Hopefully this makes it a little clearer on what you are looking at or buying.
> 
> Good Luck,
> Stri


 
   
  I have a bunch of those Lorenz tubes (Lorenz CCa, E88CC and PCC88) so I have acquired the knack of telling the real Lorenz Stuttgart from the non-Stuttgart tubes.
   
  The 1st two pictures show the Stuttgart tubes
   

  Remark :  The Lorenz Logo does not have the words "ITT" or "SEL"
   

  Remark : Stuttgart tubes have the a 3 digit number on top and "Made in Germany".
  2nd and actually the most important feature -> see where the 1st "3" of the "323" is located?
  The Stuttgart tubes everyone is lusting after have *grey getter support*.
  Basically, it should have grey shields, grey plates and grey getter support.
   
   
  Non-Stuttgart Lorenz tubes (e.g. SEL Lorenz) have silver getter support as can be seen below.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





striation said:


> Just got some new NOS 6DJ8's IEC / Mullards.  What a great contrast to the PCC88's I've been listening to (no not the Lorenz I spoke of
> That's what I love about rolling.  Switch out your tubes and your music sounds like a different mix and so many different sounds come to the forefront.  Vocals really come to the front with these guys.  And yes the Mullards are fatter sounding.  I dig 'em!!


 
  Yes, I also get the same amount of fun from tube rolling as I get from listening to them in my amps.
   
  BTW, I don't want to be seen as an SEL Lorenz tube basher.... 
  Not all Lorenz SEL tubes are bad.
  I bought some Lorenz SEL tubes too which turned out to be made by the famous Mullard in Blackburn.
  They have the "Bxxx" coding found in Mullard tubes.
   
  So if anyone wants to buy Mullards on the cheap, you can always try the SEL Lorenz route.


----------



## Striation

Well that should settle the Lorenz ID issue.  Thanks Lord.
   
  Stri


----------



## OldSkool

Terrific info, thank you for posting!
  
  I will keep searching for the real deal.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Soth are the Lorenz cca made in Stuttgart? How do they compair with the Stuttgart pcc88 (3mica/2mica)? Thanks


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Soth are the Lorenz cca made in Stuttgart? How do they compair with the Stuttgart pcc88 (3mica/2mica)? Thanks


 
  Hi,
   
  Yes, the Lorenz CCa I have are also made in Stuttgart.
  The internal structure is exactly the same as the Lorenz PCC88 or the E88CC in the pictures above.
  You can see that it also has the internal Grey Getter support.

   
   
  As for the sonics, because of the similar internal structures, I would say that Lorenz PCC88 users are experiencing at least 90% of the resolution of the Lorenz CCa.
  What I mean is that for those who have compared the Siemens CCa and the Lorenz PCC88, you would find that the
  (a) Lorenz PCC88 has about 90% of the overall resolution of the Siemens CCa.
  (b) For dimensionality, the Siemens CCa has 90% of the overall dimensionality of the Lorenz PCC88.
   
  I would say that all the audio differences between the Lorenz PCC88 and Lorenz CCa are minor and subtle at best. There are no day and night differences.
   
  For the Lorenz CCa, this slight weakness in resolution seems to have been addressed. So the high resolution power of the Siemens CCa is also found in the Lorenz CCa.
  My copies of the Lorenz PCC88 are already very quiet plus my audio chain is hum free to begin with, so in terms of audio noise floor I can't really tell if there is any difference.
  The other difference is that the Lorenz CCa version has very slightly warmer mids.
   
  For what it's worth, I am still using the Lorenz PCC88 version for my everyday listening though. It still beats the Siemens CCa and that is good enough for me! 
  Since NOS prices can only go up, I am saving up my CCas (both Siemens and Lorenz) for the future.
  In case of any real life emergency, instead of fleeing with Gold bars, I'll just grab my tuppleware filled with my best tubes. LOL
   
  BTW, my methods of NOS tube testing are very stringent.
  For NOS tubes, I condition the tubes for at least 24 hrs straight before applying any music for the 1st time.
  Then I begin to "burn-in" the tubes and run my CD player for another 24 to 48 hrs straight. I use the Frybaby mp3 file and other equipment burning CD tracks.
  For actual comparison, I use the free audio samples from Nuforce http://www.nuforce.com/hp/media/Nuforce%20Demo1/index.php


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Thanks for the comparison, I'm releaved to hear that I'm at least getting 90% of what the Lorenz cca has to offer, seeing I can't find them anywhere. Like you and others here I prefer the Lorenz pcc88 over my s&h and valvo cca. Do you have the Lorenz 3mica pcc88? When you said the Lorenz cca had warmer mids it made the 3mica come to mind, do you find 3mica more similar to the cca then the standard 2 mica version?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> I have a bunch of those Lorenz tubes (Lorenz CCa, E88CC and PCC88) so I have acquired the knack of telling the real Lorenz Stuttgart from the non-Stuttgart tubes.
> 
> The 1st two pictures show the Stuttgart tubes
> 
> ...


 

 No no No These are E88CC's these are not PCC88's


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yes, the Lorenz CCa I have are also made in Stuttgart.
> The internal structure is exactly the same as the Lorenz PCC88 or the E88CC in the pictures above.
> ...


 
  So where do we find this new mystery tube Lorenz CCa? Also the Simens&Halske CCa' have a more dimensional sound than the Lorenz. Your burning in mehtods surely are admirable and interesting is the best words I will use


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> No no No These are E88CC's these are not PCC88's


 
  I did not mean to imply that E88CCs are PCC88s.
  Just wanted to help other Tube hunters see what a real Stuttgart made tube looked like.
   
  For one variety of the Stuttgart tubes, the Lorenz CCa, E88CC and PCC88 have the same internal structures.
   
  If you look at the attached PCC88 photo from Tubemonger, you can see that the getter support is also Grey.
  For the Stuttgart version with "O" getter and double mica support, the entire internal structure is also grey coated.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> So where do we find this new mystery tube Lorenz CCa? Also the Simens&Halske CCa' have a more dimensional sound than the Lorenz. Your burning in mehtods surely are admirable and interesting is the best words I will use


 
  I got my Lorenz tubes from a tube seller based in Germany.
  She was the same person who sold me a French made Philips branded E188CC for only 30 Euros!
  Given her low prices, I cleaned out all her stock of PCC88 (telefunken and siemens too) and E188CCs by the way.
  Other Lorenz PCC88 tubes were from various purchases I made in Ebay.
   
  By the phrase dimensional, I am referring to the recreation (or rather the reproduction) of the original ambient space in the audio recording.
  This covers not just the sonic width and depth but also the "feel" of the building or enclosed space where the audio recording was made.
  What I'm trying to say is this.
  If you step into any building or room, if there are any sort of sounds or ambient sounds generated, due to the enclosed space, the sounds will create echoes or faint ones in the background. It is the faint echoes which give you a feel of the size of the actual building.
  Yeah, I'm beginning to sound like a bat! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So when I listen to the same piece of music but comparing the Siemens CCa and the Lorenz tubes (can be CCa or E88CC or PCC88), I find that the reproduction of audio is much more realistic with Lorenz tubes.
  I get a better feel of the entire room or concert hall as the case may be.
   
  That is what I mean by "dimensional".


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Thanks for the comparison, I'm releaved to hear that I'm at least getting 90% of what the Lorenz cca has to offer, seeing I can't find them anywhere. Like you and others here I prefer the Lorenz pcc88 over my s&h and valvo cca. Do you have the Lorenz 3mica pcc88? When you said the Lorenz cca had warmer mids it made the 3mica come to mind, do you find 3mica more similar to the cca then the standard 2 mica version?


 
  Dear dailydoseofdaly,
   
  Yes, I have a copy of the Lorenz 3 Mica tubes too. (sample picture from Tube monger)
  Someone has posted comparisons here before on the sonics and they are spot on.

   
   
  On the overall, I do find that the Lorenz CCa I have is more similar to the Lorenz 2 Mica PCC88.
  However, this is only because the Lorenz CCa I have has the same internal structures as the 2 Mica version.
  Given how similar the internal structures of the 2 Mica versions are but branded PCC88, or E88CC or CCa, it is very likely that they were maybe the same tubes to begin with?
  Maybe the selection process determined the choice of tube label?. As in Lorenz built the same 2 mica tubes but specially selected those which met the German standards for CCa and then applied gold plating to the pins and slapped on a "CCa" moniker? 
  -> Just my personal theory though, since as we all know, the Siemens CCa is just a specially selected version of the Siemens E88CC.
   
  If anyone out there owns a 3 Mica version Lorenz CCa, I would like to learn from their experience.
  My best guess is that if there is such a tube out there, it would be similar to the Lorenz 3 Mica PCC88 but with slightly higher resolution.
   
  Frankly, when I think of the puny 10 Euros I paid for the Lorenz PCC88s and then remember how much I paid for exotic tubes like my Siemens Grey shields CCa.... sheesh! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  BTW, you mentioned that you also have a Valvo CCa.
  Just wanted to check with you on that. 
  I happen to have one copy of the Valvo CCa Grey shields made in Holland Heerlen Factory (with the Delta Etching).
  I found the low end bass to be very indistinct and overly boomy and not tight as compared with other tubes such as Siemens.
  Is that your experience too?


----------



## paradoxper

Wait, is this confirmed? There is such a thing as a Lorenz 3 mica CCa?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

lord soth said:


> Dear dailydoseofdaly,
> 
> 
> BTW, you mentioned that you also have a Valvo CCa.
> ...




Yeah I have the same heerlen gray shield delta etched. Funny you should say that about the bass, this is my go to for hip hop albums. It's strange for a cca, smallish soundstage and big boomy bass. There is also a noticeable boost in the mids in my pair, which I don't mind, it allows the vocals to cut through better in rap tracks.


----------



## Misterrogers

Oh yea, there's a Lorenz CCa. It's been my 'white whale'. I can occasionally find some PCC88's - but I've NEVER been able to find a CCa at any price. Lord Soth? Want to make a quick buck?


----------



## paradoxper

Unbelievable! I quit!


----------



## ckc527

anyone have experience buying from ebay seller musculitohifi or german-tubes ?
   
  thanks,
  ckc


----------



## netbususer

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> anyone have experience buying from ebay seller musculitohifi or german-tubes ?
> 
> thanks,
> ckc


 
  I have no experience with this seller but I find it strange that he seems to only carry CCa tubes of various European brands...
   
  I just grabbed a pair of 1962-1964 Halo getter Mullard CV2492's and look forward to testing them.  I'm considering grabbing a Siemen's CCa but I really can't justify that kind of price for a tube....


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





netbususer said:


> I have no experience with this seller but I find it strange that he seems to only carry CCa tubes of various European brands...
> 
> I just grabbed a pair of 1962-1964 Halo getter Mullard CV2492's and look forward to testing them.  I'm considering grabbing a Siemen's CCa but I really can't justify that kind of price for a tube....


 
   
  yeah, musculitohifi seems to have endless supplies of siemens, telefunken & valvo cca tubes. also strange is if you look at the boxes, they all look pretty much brand new. are these really nos tubes? the seller also don't list the production dates.
   
  can our cca veterans chime in please. would like to try a pair of these cca but with such a high price tag, don't want to get ripped off.
   
  thx,
  ckc


----------



## mikek200

Yeah,I looked at his profile too..
  Seems he has a few negative feedbacks...prices seem a little low??
   
  I'd proceed with caution..??
   
  MrScary/Parodoxper...where are you??


----------



## Carlsan

Need some advice. I have a chance to buy a pair of Lorenz Stuttgart E88CC's (gray shield, gold pins). Price is $250. To expensive or jump on it before it disappears?


----------



## paradoxper

I personally don't like commenting on sellers I haven't dealt with. He does have negative feedback but I find this normal with 99% of sellers.
   
  So, Mrscary buy his tubes and let us know how it works out?


----------



## Misterrogers

I've bought a couple pairs from musculitohifi, and they both tested NOS and were genuine (correct and proper date/code etching, unique Siemens riser crease, etc.) Sonically, they sounded identical to other CCa's I've had. I don't believe the newish boxes were genuine issue, but they were authentic Siemens & Halske boxes (or at least seemed to be). He does a fair amount of volume, so it's virtually impossible to not collect any negative feedback. A lost package, is generally enough to cause some to give negative feedback. On affiliation or alliance - just sharing my experiences, which overall were good.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> yeah, musculitohifi seems to have endless supplies of siemens, telefunken & valvo cca tubes. also strange is if you look at the boxes, they all look pretty much brand new. are these really nos tubes? the seller also don't list the production dates.
> 
> can our cca veterans chime in please. would like to try a pair of these cca but with such a high price tag, don't want to get ripped off.
> 
> ...


 

 Whats the link I think I know who you are talking about I am too busy to search for his name..
  send me the links.. The way to test this guy is simple ask him about the tubes or ask him anything if he doesnt respond within a day... Then I wouldnt bother with him but he very well may have bought these in a lot who knows... hell I will look up his name


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I've bought a couple pairs from musculitohifi, and they both tested NOS and were genuine (correct and proper date/code etching, unique Siemens riser crease, etc.) Sonically, they sounded identical to other CCa's I've had. I don't believe the newish boxes were genuine issue, but they were authentic Siemens & Halske boxes (or at least seemed to be). He does a fair amount of volume, so it's virtually impossible to not collect any negative feedback. A lost package, is generally enough to cause some to give negative feedback. On affiliation or alliance - just sharing my experiences, which overall were good.


 

 MisterRogers already did bussiness with him then the seller is good.. As MrR said with volume comes negativity...   
   
   
  Everything Misterrogers said would just be a mirror of what I would say... sounds like a good seller to me


----------



## MrScary

*This isn't a headphone post area but since many of you I know or should I say all the old timers ...*
   
*I am selling my Audeze  LCD-2's Rev 1's with leather headband only prob one earcup has a tear in it the replacments are cheap for you guys I will let them go for 500.00 including shipping of what add in 10.00 I have not posted them on the classified yet thought if anyone wanted these*
*heave ho I need to get some closed Ultrasone Edition 8's so the open headphones are not working for my Audio mixing... I have other closed headphones but I want the Ultrasones I love the sound for a closed phone its surely a tradeoff and I go in the hole but ohh well..*
*if you are interested let me know around 8pm tonight I will post them on the head-fi classifieds*


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Need some advice. I have a chance to buy a pair of Lorenz Stuttgart E88CC's (gray shield, gold pins). Price is $250. To expensive or jump on it before it disappears?


 

 Hmmm E88CC's I know that if they do sound good then they are not prized.. I would not buy them myself IMHO


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Hmmm E88CC's I know that if they do sound good then they are not prized.. I would not buy them myself IMHO


 
  You heard it folks, if your tubes sound good then start selling them off.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Or just chuck them in the road.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Hmmm E88CC's I know that if they do sound good then they are not prized.. I would not buy them myself IMHO


 

 Thanks for the advice. I think you mean, "I know they sound good but they are not prized"


----------



## mikek200

"Hmmm E88CC's I know that if they do sound good then they are not prized."
   
Unbelievable-LOL...Thats why they call him .MrScary


----------



## Misterrogers

The E88CC Lorenz Stuttgart is slightly different in character to the PCC88. When I've rolled mine in, I'm always struck by the level of fine, inner detail in these tubes. They're very neutral top to bottom. Lord Soth - what are your impressions of the E88CC?


----------



## leoily

Many useful tips.


----------



## netbususer

Just picked up one of those platinum grade CV2493's as well. I hope I love the Mullard sound with my T1's!


----------



## Striation

I ran across the forum for "What are you listening to now" here on head-fi in regards to what music people are listening to at the moment.  I thought it would be cool to hear what tubes people are rolling at the moment here in our thread.  For example.
   
  I'm rolling Phillips PCC88's ATM.
   
  Stri.


----------



## Misterrogers

Siemens & Halske E188CC 'grays'.


----------



## Carlsan

PCC88 - LABELED FOR TELEFUNKEN and MADE BY SIEMENS -   1960's vintage


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

At this very moment, Lorenz pcc88 3mica, listening to fleet foxes, helplessness blues album (thought I'd combine both threads )


----------



## SeaHawk

LISTENING WITH: My trusty Mullard IEC 6DJ8's, with new socket savers installed today is "elevating" my game   One of them seems to be turning very microphonic, though (with buzzing until I tap it a few times) 
   
  LISTENING TO: Everyday Sunshine - Fishbone


----------



## mikek200

Mullards CV2493-NOS...& Lorenz's
  Lorenzes still the champ


----------



## OldSkool

Mullards here too, dimpled disc CV2492.  Very happy with them!
   
  Listening to some electric blues tonight. Craig Erickson, Retro Blues Express.


----------



## Carlsan

Any cheap bargains out there?
   
  Out of curiosity, anyone try the Tesla E88CC tubes from the early-mid 70's? 
  They are suppose to be copies of the Siemens 60's tubes.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> LISTENING WITH: My trusty Mullard IEC 6DJ8's, with new socket savers installed today is "elevating" my game   One of them seems to be turning very microphonic, though (with buzzing until I tap it a few times)
> 
> LISTENING TO: Everyday Sunshine - Fishbone


 
   
  Read somewhere that tapping tubes is not good. Will increase microphonics. Tap too much and you will be Partying at Ground Zero with your tubes...


----------



## SeaHawk

Too true, but it's either that or I get The Buzz...    Might be time to start looking again.
   
  And +1 on the song reference!


----------



## paradoxper

Mullards CV2493's and Lorenz 3-mica.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Oh yea, there's a Lorenz CCa. It's been my 'white whale'. I can occasionally find some PCC88's - but I've NEVER been able to find a CCa at any price. Lord Soth? Want to make a quick buck?


 
  Hi Misterrogers,
   
  Maybe if you offered me 10 Lorenz PCC88s, I might be tempted...... (Serious!)


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> The E88CC Lorenz Stuttgart is slightly different in character to the PCC88. When I've rolled mine in, I'm always struck by the level of fine, inner detail in these tubes. They're very neutral top to bottom. Lord Soth - what are your impressions of the E88CC?


 
  Hi everyone,
   
  Due to some work commitments, I have disappeared (and will disappear again) from audio forums for a short spell......
   
  Hi Misterrogers,
  I'm currently using my Lorenz PCC88 (2 mica version) as my everyday tubes, I have achieved "audio nirvana" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




ever since I plugged them in.
  The Lorenz CCa might have higher resolution but I have reached the stage whereby I am simply too audio satiated at the moment to change my tubes.
   
  But I have the following audio comparison project in mind.
   
  Since my Lorenz PCC88 (2 Mica) have been utilised for at least 100hrs, it would be unfair of me to post any serious audio comparisons of all my other Lorenz tubes.
   
  So I shall add on to the current burn-in for all my other Stuttgart Lorenz tubes
   
  1. Lorenz PCC88 3 Mica
  2. Lorenz E88CC 3 Mica
  3. Lorenz E88CC 2 Mica
  4. Lorenz CCa 2 Mica
   
  vs the above-mentioned Lorenz PCC88 (2 Mica).
   
  After subjecting those tubes to audio burn in CD for at least 100hrs* using my audio burn-in CDs, I shall return and post my impressions here.
  Please give me about one to two weeks time to do that. 
   
  *(don't worry, I would never sell these as "NOS" on Ebay).


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Read somewhere that tapping tubes is not good. Will increase microphonics. Tap too much and you will be Partying at Ground Zero with your tubes...


 
  tapping won't hurt them at all of course not hard


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Due to some work commitments, I have disappeared (and will disappear again) from audio forums for a short spell......
> 
> ...


 

 We know the answer the PC88's sound the best if you prefer the PCC88's over the CCa's are the  E88CC tubes readily available or do we have to Conjur the dead to make them? All the Lorenz are so  rare that they are just best left not talked about at all... They are freaking gone for the most part...Dead we have known the PC88's are the best for along time... And to add to this my point is I keep seeing new users asking me "Where do I get the Lorenz tubes" Then when I say well first you have to be a Witch and make a potion to Conjur the dead then make them into zombies and make tubes that no longer exist they are shocked.. hahaha


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Thanks for the advice. I think you mean, "I know they sound good but they are not prized"


 

 æ■ö≥♂DÄ


----------



## Misterrogers

For a different point of view... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd appreciate hearing your impressions of each of these when you get to it Lord Soth. As much as I enjoy the PCC88's (2/3 mica), I find attributes of the Lorenz E88CC (2/3 mica) very compelling and enjoyable - just as I do the Siemens & Halske E188CC's and CCa's, Amperex PQ's, pinched waist or not. These are all good, with each being stellar in at least a couple of areas. I enjoy these buggers (probably too much!), and enjoy their differences. On a lark, I just rolled in the trusty 6BZ7's - a pretty damn good performer for the cost.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> æ■ö≥♂DÄ


 
   

   
  I'm a dog and what is this?


----------



## kskwerl

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> *Updated list 2*
> 
> *Scarys list of the Top 5 and take it for what its worth opinion of tubes to try*
> 
> ...


 
  Is this your most up-to-date list MrScary?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> I'm a dog and what is this?


 
  This message is a from the emergency random troll alert!!
 ↔↔╓█A2bô


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> Is this your most up-to-date list MrScary?


 

 NO that list is very old and I never updated my opinion and never will I just pop in every once in a while but as of late I have been around a bit more because I have run into some unsual tubes that sound really good
  but have not mentioned them yet.. I am curious about the Lorenz tubes but the sad thing is I am never ever paying huge sums of money for tubes I already have so many that the differences are all up to opinion..
  In reality one thing that we never really broke down in this thread is this.. What is your audio chain? I can tell you I now have multiple setups and each one sounds different with the same exact tubes..
  So as much as I would love now to say "Tubes alone" change the world I cannot.. Its the sum of the whole..
  I am no longer publicly giving my opinion about what tubes I would get if I was a new user.. Private I would give you a idea if you could tell me what your audio chain is..


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> For a different point of view...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I can see it now Misterrogers tubes.. your could use a catch phrase like .. We have combined the best attributes of all the vintage tubes into one! just turn the dial and lock in your sound 
  How I wish. I agree about the attributes of many tubes..  I am not being a stinker guys its just frustration you know after ya chase the rabbit so long that you finally realize they all have different attributes..
  I wish that I had the time to put into this thread but I do not anymore I am currently doing alot of Session work on the side (Been playing guitar for 33 years) and Audio Engineering I just
  do not have the time to tear things apart like I tried to at one time when I was chasing the rabbit..  So in closing I will let you guys know about what I have discovered recently when I give everything I own
  a listen again.
   
   
  And just one last point I made earlier. Since this is a tube rolling thread and non-specific its great that everyone wants to bring to the table thought's on tubes but my concern is this.. New users see us talking about the Lorenz. Some of us are lucky to have them and have been generous enough
  to sell to others but I always hate to tell new users that the Lorenz are like finding a needle in a haystack. People do not have the time to spend searching for the elusive "God Particle" they want a tube and I hate to tell them Im sorry but good luck! This is a very addictive hobby
  and I know when I finally rested it was  relief and once I went back and started slowly listening to every tube again I have realized that I made many mistakes along the way but also made some good ones...Maybe what we need is a FAQ for this thread to let people know how hard it is to get the Lorenz and how expensive some others that we prize are.. ôô


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Mystery tubes?!? 
Scary what were those tubes that you said sounded really bad and made the guitar sound like a bass, way back in the thread? Trying to remember


----------



## Striation

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Mystery tubes?!?
> Scary what were those tubes that you said sounded really bad and made the guitar sound like a bass, way back in the thread? Trying to remember


 
  Shhhhhhh,,,,,,,  It's a secret.  He's very busy.


----------



## Striation

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> NO that list is very old and I never updated my opinion and never will I just pop in every once in a while but as of late I have been around a bit more because I have run into some unsual tubes that sound really good
> but have not mentioned them yet.. I am curious about the Lorenz tubes but the sad thing is I am never ever paying huge sums of money for tubes I already have so many that the differences are all up to opinion..
> In reality one thing that we never really broke down in this thread is this.. What is your audio chain? I can tell you I now have multiple setups and each one sounds different with the same exact tubes..
> So as much as I would love now to say "Tubes alone" change the world I cannot.. Its the sum of the whole..
> I am no longer publicly giving my opinion about what tubes I would get if I was a new user.. Private I would give you a idea if you could tell me what your audio chain is..


 
  A lot of people list their chains on their profiles. So when I see a provocative comment or someone mention a tube I already own for example I take a look at their chain and see how it compares to mine and what they are experiencing with a particular tube.  It helps to look at the big picture and form an opinion from there as I'm sure many of you already do.  Of course most people only have one chain 
   
  Stri


----------



## Misterrogers

Scary is dead on with his points about the whole chain mattering. Nothing as triggered another round of tube rolling quicker than changing something in my chain. I would also add that for the money we spend on top notch NOS tubes, it's wise to focus our 'down stream' components first. The gains I've realized with an Audiophilleo2/PurePower as USB to SPDIF converter (and my present Buffalo II build that uses the exaU2I USB -> I2S card), FAR exceed any gains in discovering a 'better' tube.
   
  Everything matters.
   
  Having said all that, the right tube to complement your chain can really be the icing on the cake. They also provide a fantastic way to apply subtle compensations to your current chain. Sorry - I ramble. Roll away gang! But pay attention to your other components - if you're using a computer as your source, ESPECIALLY to the business of getting the best, cleanest, low jitter stream from your computer. It can be a bit expensive, but it's worth it


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> For a different point of view...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hmm.....
  If Mr.  is the "BAD" cop, then
   
  Mr.  is the "GOOD" cop.  LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now I see how Americans extract information. Hee Hee.
   
  Any Russians here by any chance? just need one to pop over here and mutter "Wee hav ways arf making u Tok"......
   
  Yes, audio chain is important but other audio users seem to place the lorenz PCC88s on top too.
  For example, some conrad johnson folks over here.
http://www.audioaficionado.org/conrad-johnson/11765-6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88-your-cj-pre-amps.html
  This seems to suggest that the Lorenz PCC88s have that magic "oomph" on a universal scale which transcends the audio chain.
  (Ok, my flame suit is on!)
   
  BTW, Misterrogers, I really dig the way your website http://vintageaudiotubes.com/ is organised.
  Lots of good tube info all in one package.
  I really admire your efforts at tube-rolling so far!
   
  I am currently burning in the 3 Lorenz E88CCs (counting the CCa as an E88CC) I have.
   
  Those will be the 1st 3 tubes to be compared.
  I don't think anyone has ever compared the sonics of these 3 tubes on the WWW.
  For e.g., I personally want to know which Lorenz variant is the "warmest" vs "Neutral" and which has the largest "3D" soundstage which is their strongest suit.
  All Lorenz tubes seem to have extreme inner details.
   
  I'm personally interested in knowing which one will come out on top.
  From my tube rolling xp so far, I don't expect any single tube to have all the best attributes except maybe the legendary pinched waists.
   
  I also have Telefunken E188CCs, Amperex Pinched Waist 6922 and a Pinched Waist Valvo "D" Getter with the "Dxx" Valvo Germany coding.
  They are currently in NOS virgin storage because of how good the Lorenz tubes are performing at the moment.
   
  If I really get into a tube-rolling frenzy, I might include the most mysterious tubes I have at the moment.
  These are selected by the Western German government and are called "Bonn" tubes.
  Bonn was the seat of the the Western German government during the entire cold war period with East and West Berlin.
  They have unique silver pins which are very unusual as compared with the standard goldpin CCas and whatnots.
  These are supposed to be the "best".
   
  Here's a sample picture.
   

   
  They are mysterious (at least to me) since I have never gotten to sit down and listen to them critically.
  I blame it on the Lorenz! 
   
  In due time, I will see how they fare against the usual CCas in my arsenal!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

We'll have to sick the scary/rodgers team on you for that Bonn ecc88 impression


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hmm.....
> If Mr.  is the "BAD" cop, then
> 
> Mr.  is the "GOOD" cop.  LOL
> ...


 

 Well tubes are part of the audio chain so "transcends the audio chain." is a no go... yeah these tubes that we will never ever see are interesting... I'm sure we will all enjoy them.. nobody questioned the PCC88's I have several sets.
  Next question I wold ask as a new user and saw you mention these tubes is... Where do I get them? how Much will you sell me some?
  Suppose to be the best?  Dude if this is the case and maybe it is.. Then you will rock the whole world's experts on tubes..


----------



## eddiek997

I really hope that during all of this (albeit welcome and informative) tubey talk that everybody is actually taking the time to listen to some music.
  Put the tubes in, sit back and listen. Just listen. Zone out, enjoy the tunes. Critique if you must but above all, listen and enjoy.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> I really hope that during all of this (welcome and informative) tubey talk that everybody is actually taking the time to listen to some music.
> Put the tubes in, sit back and listen. Just listen. Zone out, enjoy the tunes. Critique if you must but above all, listen and enjoy.


 

 Suffering from the flue for the last two days, my audio gear and tubes, have given me much comfort.  Nothing like listening to Low, running a fever, and zoning out with my LCD-2's.


----------



## Misterrogers

Thank you sir! Not enough time to tend to it and finish the articles/research in progress - work/life can sure get in the way of our hobbies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have some information/feedback from a friend that's a tube wizard but would prefer to stay behind the curtain. I'll inject his thoughts/feedback from time to time as seems relevant. His comments below:
   
  **********
   
 [size=medium] Regarding 'Bonn' tubes...[/size]
 [size=medium] Tube in the picture is Tesla Trinec plant production from 1970s. Nothing super special there and less desirable than Tesla Rožnov production. There were no Western European and German made E88CC/E188CC tubes with silver or ally pins - period. Always gold pins for those.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] Pins for the tube in picture are simple non corrosive alloy, similar to these:[/size]
 [size=medium] http://www.tubemonger.com/Tesla_NOT_JJ_MPs_MINT_NOS_1970s_80s_E88CC_6922_p/114.htm[/size]
   
  **********
   
  FWIW
  Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hmm.....
> If Mr.  is the "BAD" cop, then
> 
> Mr.  is the "GOOD" cop.  LOL
> ...


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Scary is dead on with his points about the whole chain mattering. Nothing as triggered another round of tube rolling quicker than changing something in my chain. I would also add that for the money we spend on top notch NOS tubes, it's wise to focus our 'down stream' components first. The gains I've realized with an Audiophilleo2/PurePower as USB to SPDIF converter (and my present Buffalo II build that uses the exaU2I USB -> I2S card), FAR exceed any gains in discovering a 'better' tube.
> 
> Everything matters.
> 
> Having said all that, the right tube to complement your chain can really be the icing on the cake. They also provide a fantastic way to apply subtle compensations to your current chain. Sorry - I ramble. Roll away gang! But pay attention to your other components - if you're using a computer as your source, ESPECIALLY to the business of getting the best, cleanest, low jitter stream from your computer. It can be a bit expensive, but it's worth it


 

 Thank you my friend I am short on time as of late so it appears I am coming across crass but I am not I am just a bit concerned that this thread is about tube rolling so if we look at the premise that would be they can be found or bought at some cost..
  So, as I said a FAQ would really really help on all the threads I think that is one thing that Head-Fi has dropped the ball on... You know if I just bought a Lyr and came to this thread I would be so freaking confused I would not even know where to start..


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Thank you sir! Not enough time to tend to it and finish the articles/research in progress - work/life can sure get in the way of our hobbies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 As I expected nothing special about this tube..


----------



## olor1n

Selling my Lyr. These were purchased from tubemonger and have about 100 hours on them. The brown Lorenz label and Made in Germany are faint but readable. Aussie Head-Fiers get priority. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Thank you sir! Not enough time to tend to it and finish the articles/research in progress - work/life can sure get in the way of our hobbies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi Misterrogers,
   
  Yes, they are called "Bonn Selected" tubes, as in they are specially selected for use by the German government. Yes, Bonn tubes are just repackaged ones. There is no "Bonn" tube manufacturer.
   
  Thanks for helping me ID the tubes. It does look like they are Teslas.
   
  However, my Bonn tubes have grey plates and *grey shields *though.
  So that would likely place them in the 1960s.
  BTW, since they are Teslas, even if they have Grey shields, I would lump them together with my other bunch of "inferior" tube pile with a couple of Nish Yugloslav PCC88s and Tungsrams etc. Those were won "accidentally" in Ebay as in I placed low bids for them because I was more insterested in the other tubes such as Siemens, Valvo, Philips etc which were sold together with these "inferior" tubes.
   
  Another difference about the ones I have is that the pins could really be silver or rather silver-plated.
  I am about 90% very sure of this because I also have silver-plated power cords and I scrutinised and compared the two.
  I am no professional silversmith but there is a certain sheen to silver that is different from alloys.
  Or maybe it is silver alloy.
   
  Pins issue aside, I have formalised a plausible theory about these tubes then.
  What I'm holding are lablled as "Bonn selected" *ECC88 *tubes.
  Given the high standards of Germans in general, when they placed such an order with Tesla, Tesla had to downgrade their E88CC/6922 valves and sell them to the Western German government as ECC88s instead.
  As we all know, E88CCs are suposed to be higher grade ECC88s.
   
  It all makes sense to me now!


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> As I expected nothing special about this tube..


 
   
  I wouldn't write off all "Bonn Selected" tubes though.
   
   
   I have seen Bonn Selected E88CCs before.
  They turned out to be Telefunken E88CCs with the <> at the bottom!


----------



## kskwerl

Anyone try these?

http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm


----------



## songmic

Those Lorenz SEL labelled ones are not the original Lorenz tubes made in Stuttgart, West Germany. I wouldn't spend my money on them if I were you.
   
  Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> Anyone try these?
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm


----------



## kskwerl

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Those Lorenz SEL labelled ones are not the original Lorenz tubes made in Stuttgart, West Germany. I wouldn't spend my money on them if I were you.


 
  Thanks!
   
  If you don't mind explaining to me, how did you know that? I'm pretty new to tubes


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Selling my Lyr. These were purchased from tubemonger and have about 100 hours on them. The brown Lorenz label and Made in Germany are faint but readable. Aussie Head-Fiers get priority. PM me if you're interested.


 
   
  Too many PMs to respond to individually. I've now listed the Stuttgarts in the FS section. Please refer to responses there.


----------



## kskwerl

The only tubes I've tried in the Lyr are the JJ E88CC's, GE's from schiit, Sylvania 6BZ7's. I've been reading this thread for a while and there just seems to be so many choices. Can anyone point me in the right direction as to a tube that would really lift a veil as compared to the tubes I've tried. I mean when I went from the JJ's to schiits GE's I thought they were pretty great, I also thought the Sylvania's were good too but I figure that it just because I haven't tried other higher tier tubes.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> Thanks!
> 
> If you don't mind explaining to me, how did you know that? I'm pretty new to tubes


 
   
  There are two types of Lorenz tubes:
   
  #1. Made in Stuttgart, West Germany from 5~60's.
  #2. Made in Eastern European countries from the late 60's and onward. Relabelled by Lorenz as SEL.
   
  #1 tubes are older, rarer, and thus demand a much higher price than #2 tubes. #2 tubes weren't even made in Germany; they were made in Eastern European countries and simply relabelled by Lorenz with the logo "SEL" after Lorenz stopped making its own tubes. Even though #1 tubes are older, they are superior in quality to the relatively newer #2 tubes in every aspect, because they were made by West Germany's high-precision technology and contain a good amount rare earth minerals that are hardly found in tubes made later.
   
  It's very easy to tell whether a Lorenz tube is #1 or #2. #1 tubes have brown-colored "Lorenz" logo inside a oval shape, with the words "made in Germany." #2 tubes usually have the "Lorenz" logo in white without the oval, and also has the logo "SEL."
   
  This is an example of a #1 Lorenz tube.
http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6DJ8/Lorenz+Stuttgart+PCC88+3-MICA+Gray+Shield+1960s+-+IV+-+Made+in+Germany.jpg.html
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kskwerl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The only tubes I've tried in the Lyr are the JJ E88CC's, GE's from schiit, Sylvania 6BZ7's. I've been reading this thread for a while and there just seems to be so many choices. Can anyone point me in the right direction as to a tube that would really lift a veil as compared to the tubes I've tried. I mean when I went from the JJ's to schiits GE's I thought they were pretty great, I also thought the Sylvania's were good too but I figure that it just because I haven't tried other higher tier tubes.


 
   
  Honestly, I don't recommend the stock JJ E88CC tubes that Schiit offers; on the other hand, the stock GE 6BZ7 tubes are pretty good for their price IMO. However, you can get a much better performance out of your Lyr with proper tube rolling. If you're looking for some top-tier tubes, expect to spend at least around $150~200, possibly higher. Although people have different musical tastes and the results may vary depending on your audio chain, here are some tips:
   
  1. Look for old, vintage tubes (preferably those made in the 5~60's) made by companies like Amperex, Siemens (also known as Siemens & Halske), or Lorenz (#1). These are arguably the most sought-after tubes in this forum. Each company's line of tubes has its unique sound signature, but I don't think you can go wrong with most of them.
   
  2. Look for E88CC(=6922), E188CC(=7308), or CCa tubes from companies I mentioned above. E88CC are generally superior to ECC88(=6DJ8) tubes, and CCa are actually E88CC tubes that have been hand-picked among them to be of higher quality. E188CC is a superior version of E88CC and thus have a slightly different design, although some claim that certain E88CC and especially CCa rivals them in sonic quality. YMMV.
   
  3. PCC88 tubes aren't recommened by Schiit because they use a different voltage (7V) compared to the other tubes (6V - Lyr's default voltage setting), but since Lyr auto-biases voltage, I haven't heard of anyone, including myself, have technical issues while using PCC88's. I haven't heard of PCC88 tubes made by Amperex or Siemens, but Lorenz PCC88 are well-known throughout this community as one of the best tubes out there for Lyr. Of course they have to be genuine, Germany-made tubes; not SEL rebranded ones.
   
  4. If you're looking for Amperex tubes, make sure they were made in either USA or Holland. The best kinds of Amperex tubes have a "PQ (stands for premium quality)" logo in white color. These are called Amperex PQ White Labels, and are generally considered to be one of the best tubes out there. Holland tubes are rarer than American ones and therefore are of higher price, but honestly there isn't much difference between the two - both are very good. There is also something called a getter: while I can't say whether getters affect sound quality, D-shaped getters are somewhat more expensive than O-shaped or halo getters because they are older and rarer.
   
  Some rare Amperex tubes have "pinched waists" instead of a typical, straight waist. These are manufacturing flaws, but some people claim that the pinched waist shape of these tubes make them sound better, so these "flawed" ones are actually more expensive than regular ones.
   
  5. If you're looking for Siemens tubes, which should be made in Germany, try to look for tubes with "Gray Shields" instead of silver/chrome shields or no shield. Gray shields are the best of them - obviously having a shield is better than no shield, and the reason why gray shields are superior to silver(=chrome) ones is that they use some quality rare earth minerals - which makes their surface color gray compared to bare metallic shields. The same rule applies to Lorenz tubes.
   
  6. As for Lorenz tubes, definitely look for #1 tubes - there is no comparison between #1 and #2. Gray Shields are preferable, as well as having 3-mica (or trimica) instead of 2-mica.
   
  And here are a few examples of so-called "best tubes."
   
  - Amperex PQ White Label 6922, D-getter, Pinched Waist (according to Joe's Tube Lore, these are his reference tubes)
  - Amperex PQ White Label 7308, O-getter
  - Siemens & Halske E188CC, Gray Shield
  - Siemens & Halske CCa, Gray Shield
  - Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-Mica, Gray Shield


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Nice write up. Might also want to consider adding telefunken and mullard to the list. 
Also the lorenz stuttgart logos come in white and black as well.


----------



## kskwerl

Songmic thanks for taking the time to respond to me, now at least I know what to look for. I got a good/bad feeling about this lol bad being I'm gonna end of dropping a lot of dough on some tubes!


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I've bought a couple pairs from musculitohifi, and they both tested NOS and were genuine (correct and proper date/code etching, unique Siemens riser crease, etc.) Sonically, they sounded identical to other CCa's I've had. I don't believe the newish boxes were genuine issue, but they were authentic Siemens & Halske boxes (or at least seemed to be). He does a fair amount of volume, so it's virtually impossible to not collect any negative feedback. A lost package, is generally enough to cause some to give negative feedback. On affiliation or alliance - just sharing my experiences, which overall were good.


 
   
  Hi Misterrogers,
   
  I have gotten some Siemens CCas from Musculitohifi before and also from other sources.
   
  (Putting on my flamesuit!)
   
  I scrutinised and compared the CCas I got from this particular Ebay Seller and also with the other CCas in my possession.
   
  There are some red flags thrown up by Musculitohifi's "endless" supply of CCa
   
  1. CCa wordings.
   
  The 1st 2 pictures show the CCa wordings from other sellers and also from my other CCas obtained from other sources.
  Play extra attention to the spacing between CCa.
  Other CCas appear as "C (space) C (space) a"

   

   
  You can see that the "CCa" wordings from other tube sellers have *spacing *between each syllable.
   
  However, the CCas sold by this Ebay seller have all the wordings squashed together very tightly without any spacing.
  The picture directly below is from one of the CCas grey shields sold by him.
   

   
  It is very suspicious for the manufacturer's printing to be especially different for this Ebay seller.
   
  Also, the CCas I got from this seller showed that they were a bit too minty in print for a real NOS tube.
  In short, they are too perfect!
   
  2. ≠ (Uneual sign) Siemens Munich Etching
   
  All my other Siemens CCas have this ≠ etching on the tubes.
  In fact, all my other Siemens Halske tubes have the ≠ etching and they range from the lowly PCC88, to ECC88, E88CC, E188CC and E288CC. (Yes, I have the whole range of the Siemens Tubes!)
  I have not encountered any Siemens Halske tubes before without the ≠ etching.
   
  However, the Siemens CCas I bought from this Ebay seller do not have the ≠ etching.
   
  3. New Boxes
  The boxes provided by this Ebay seller are obviously brand new.
  My other Siemens CCas with Grey shields have the old Siemens Halske Blue and Yellow box and so I have also acquired the knack of figuring out what are real old and aged boxes.
   
  4. Internal Structures
  Yes, I compared all the internal structures of the CCas from this seller and they check out fine.
  However, there are many double staged getter support valves with grey shields made by Siemens.
  There are also stories of a syndicate (in Switzerland) which has been relabelling tubes and passing them off as more expensive tubes.
   
  IMHO, there is a chance that this seller is relabelling other Siemens tubes as "CCas".
   
  (Taking off my flamesuit now)
   
  So anyone who is thinking of buying Siemens CCas from this seller, I urge you to apply caution and not to spend too much.
  I would not bid too much if I were buying tubes from this seller.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





songmic said:


> ......There is also something called a getter: while I can't say whether getters affect sound quality, D-shaped getters are somewhat more expensive than O-shaped or halo getters because they are older and rarer.


 
  Hi songmic, first of all, your summary is FANTASTIC!
  BRAVO to you for your efforts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As for the getter, IMHO, the getter itself does not affect the sound quality.
  However, it can be used as an accurate gauge of the age of the tube and hence the sound quality.
   
  The oldest vacuum tubes had the D-shaped getters.
  This applies not just to the 6DJ8 family but also to other tubes.
  This can be considered to be a General rule to vacuum tubes.
   
  Another general rule to vacuum tubes is that the oldest ones (within each brand and line) tend to sound better than the newer ones.
   
  So that is why many tube rollers make the statement that D-Getter tubes sound the best!
  I have done this comparison myself and I find that it is very true in general.
  E.g., the D-getter tubes in the 6DJ8 family have a 3D effect which is less pronounced than their O-getter siblings within the same family.


----------



## Misterrogers

I second that - good job Songmic! I third what Lord Soth said re: getter. For the sake of clarity and reinforcing tube facts, the 'getter' is actually the reflective 'flash' usually inside the top of the tube (their are some exceptions to the placement depending on the tube type/design - an example would be the RCA clear tops). the 'o' or 'd' is often referred to as the 'getterer' by old timers. It's only useful period is during the construction of the tube, after a vacuum is applied to the tube and a charge is applied to 'flash' the minerals to the inside of the tube. After flashing, the getterer serves no other purpose (other than as Lord Soth noted, in helping us identify tubes of a better 'vintage'). Older tubes tend to be better because of 1) liberal use of rare earth minerals that are either not used today, or are used more sparingly or more diluted, and 2) construction techniques that seem to not have been handed down, are lost, or are too time consuming to be with recreating.
   
  Re: CCa's - no need for the flame suit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have no stake in the seller, and I can only speak for the tubes I've bought from him, which have checked out to my satisfaction (print, Siemens markings, correct structure). That's certainly not to say that he doesn't or hasn't floated some fakes. I do agree that it's a bit odd that he seems to have a never ending supply.
  Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hi songmic, first of all, your summary is FANTASTIC!
> BRAVO to you for your efforts!
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Too many PMs to respond to individually. I've now listed the Stuttgarts in the FS section. Please refer to responses there.


 
   
  Hi olor1n,
   
  Putting an add for your Stuttgart tubes over here would be analogous to throwing a juicy live fish into a sea of hungry sharks and piranhas!!!
   
  Have you received >200 PMs by now?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> Can anyone point me in the right direction as to a tube that would really lift a veil as compared to the tubes I've tried........


 
   
  IMHO, to lift a sonic veil. You can't go wrong with any of the *German Tubes (i.e TELEFUNKEN, SIEMENS, VALVO, LORENZ, )* mentioned by Brent Jesse over here.
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
   
  He is a reliable tube seller btw and I have managed to get tubes from him without any major problems.
   
  As for cost, you don't have to get the ultimate (and expensive) CCas to experience music without the proverbial "veil".
  For example, a basic Siemens ECC88 or PCC88 would be good enough for most folks!
  This is a linear tube with great response at both ends.
   
  However, if you don't mind sacrificing the low end bass, the Telefunken 6DJ8 or PCC88 with <> bottom is a tube with some of the best sonic clarity with great instrument separation.


----------



## netbususer

Looking for a tube:
   
  Primarily concerned with: Resolution, Imaging, Soundstage
   
  What would you recommend?
   
  Right now I'm using a Mullard CV2493 in the front stage and using Telefunken PCC88 tubes for the L and R channel with a Tung Sol 5Y3GT rectifier. It sounds very nice but you know how this audio thing works... always chasing something better!  Recommend me the best tube that you can find! I know the Lorenz is awesome but you can't find them anywhere...
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





netbususer said:


> Looking for a tube:
> 
> Primarily concerned with: Resolution, Imaging, Soundstage
> 
> ...


 
  Its time to meet No.2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Until my Lorenz tubes showed up, I really preferred the Siemens CCa.
   
  For ultimate resolution (i.e. lack of veil), without any hesitation, I would say that it would be any Siemens CCa out there.
  As long as it is one with a double staged getter support (aka 2 mica version).
  Grey shields are slightly warmer than Silver shields.
  If your audio chain is already "too" bright, I would avoid any Silver shield version but this is audio chain and user preference dependent.
   
  Imaging and Soundstage are more pronounced in D-Getter Grey Shields. In other words, the 3D sound effects are more dramatic.
  They are sill excellent in the O-Getter Grey Shields.
   
  Sample photo of a double staged Siemens CCa below.

   
  As for where all the Lorenz tubes have ended up......
  I blame this guy!


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I second that - good job Songmic! I third what Lord Soth said re: getter. For the sake of clarity and reinforcing tube facts, the 'getter' is actually the reflective 'flash' usually inside the top of the tube (their are some exceptions to the placement depending on the tube type/design - an example would be the RCA clear tops). the 'o' or 'd' is often referred to as the 'getterer' by old timers. It's only useful period is during the construction of the tube, after a vacuum is applied to the tube and a charge is applied to 'flash' the minerals to the inside of the tube. After flashing, the getterer serves no other purpose (other than as Lord Soth noted, in helping us identify tubes of a better 'vintage'). Older tubes tend to be better because of 1) liberal use of rare earth minerals that are either not used today, or are used more sparingly or more diluted, and 2) construction techniques that seem to not have been handed down, are lost, or are too time consuming to be with recreating.


 
   
  Haha, well I gotta admit most of what I know about tubes came from you, Sifu Misterrogers! I had done some research about getters too, and they are used to create the vacuum state of the tube upon its completion by absorbing the gas inside. So logically thinking, I don't see how the getter shape can affect sound. However, like many of you have said, D-shaped getter is a proof that it is an older tube, and since older tubes are generally rarer and better, it makes sense that these command higher price.
   
  Still, I believe the O-getter Amperex PQ 7308's you've sent me are just as good as any D-getter ones made before them. Can't wait to replace my current tubes with those!


----------



## WesternE

This amp has the tubes biased at a low mA. After years of dealing with this to this tube this is not is not a great operating point, So the 6922 is a poor choice as their operating range is more suitable with each half biased at 10mA. Tubes that sound good with this amp are white label Amperex 6DJ8, the orange label 6DJ8 is aslo good and better likelyhood of obtaining a pair with some GM left. Best thing is to upgrade the B+ transformer to a higher watted which allows a bias to 8-10 mA per side. The 8416 can be obtained with as true NOS (but need 12.6V heat), most any other 6DJ8 on the market has been used and abused. So when upgrading the transformer possible find one wih a 12.6V for the 8416 or a new enclosure for a sepate 12.V transformer. The results are much better than spending a fortune "NOS" tubes.


----------



## WesternE

dp


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





songmic said:


> There are two types of Lorenz tubes:
> 
> #1. Made in Stuttgart, West Germany from 5~60's.
> #2. Made in Eastern European countries from the late 60's and onward. Relabelled by Lorenz as SEL.
> ...


 

 Nice to see someone paying attention in the Forum  Nice write up and staying on the topic... Also check www.tubeworld.com not to buy he charges up the booty but he has all of the tubes broken out as Tubelore does I like to look at both their are many many more tubes not on your list that are less expensive and when you get into the 60's tubes your audio chain has such an impact and your headphones.. I can put on my Ultrasone Editon 8's and they sound way different than my Denon 7000's etc and I have different tubes for different phones.... So if you only use one set of phones it narrows it down. Some other tubes to look for that at times you can pick up for a steal are the Mullard's the Brimars alot of the Amperex in the 6JDB line are less expensive I have a script I wrote about a year ago that gives me a list of any tubes that I seek I just happened to be bored and looked manually their are tons of great tubes on Ebay right now for cheap...


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hi Misterrogers,
> 
> I have gotten some Siemens CCas from Musculitohifi before and also from other sources.
> 
> ...


 

 Simens &Halske must have had some bored marketers basically if you look between 1968 you see wide letters 1969 you see letters that are closer together now since his pictures are taken at an angle and not close up its hard to tell but they look like they are 1969's
  Like this one. Now being fair is their the possibility of fakes sure...I know that i have had atleat 8 different years of CCa's and most were different with the writing as I said someone was bored in marketing and decided to have the designers change the logo all the time
  kinda funny... Gave someone a job back then.. One thing we never figured out for sure was what exact year each tube is their are some examples on www.tubeworld.com just type in Siemens CCa in the search field he has several different designs from the years..
  On this one I dont know if this guy just is in real good with contacts or if their is a scam.. Not it's awful hard to scam the internal structure I wish I had this year CCa I would message him and ask him to take a closer pic...


----------



## weitn

After burned in my NOS Amperex Bugleboy rare large halo getter (made in Holland) which I ordered from audiotubes.com for more than 100 hours, the tubes open up and sounds better than before. Compared to GE 6BZ7, it has wider soundstage, more depth, extended bass and extended treble (without iritating hissing), very smooth SQ, bass is more punchy and solid and richer mid. Overall, the SQ is much more enjoyable than 6BZ7. With the Amperex, I don't have to turn the volume as loud as when using 6BZ7. With the 6BZ7 because the mid are slightly recess, I have to crank up the volume to 11 o'clock to hear more mid, which is not good (loud volume) for the ear in the long term. With the Amperex, the SQ already sound good when I turn on Lyr. Thus, I don't have to wait for Lyr to fully warm up. Meaning that there is less waste of tubes life waiting for amp to warm up. These tubes definitely have taken my listening pleasure to a higher level. For now, I am gonna stick with these tubes. My next upgrade will be the headphone cable for my HD650 which I have decided on Toxic Cables.


----------



## Carlsan

I emailed Musculitohifi and he responded:
   
   
  Quote: 





> Hello, my English is not very good but will try to answer it to you, there
> are many myths about cca Siemens, and many people that have had a few tubes
> already experts believe, but the reality is another.
> 1) Not all tubes
> ...


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Simens &Halske must have had some bored marketers basically if you look between 1968 you see wide letters 1969 you see letters that are closer together now since his pictures are taken at an angle and not close up its hard to tell but they look like they are 1969's
> Like this one. Now being fair is their the possibility of fakes sure...I know that i have had atleat 8 different years of CCa's and most were different with the writing as I said someone was bored in marketing and decided to have the designers change the logo all the time
> kinda funny... Gave someone a job back then.. One thing we never figured out for sure was what exact year each tube is their are some examples on www.tubeworld.com just type in Siemens CCa in the search field he has several different designs from the years..
> On this one I dont know if this guy just is in real good with contacts or if their is a scam.. Not it's awful hard to scam the internal structure I wish I had this year CCa I would message him and ask him to take a closer pic...


 
   
  If you look at all the pictures of Siemens CCas at Tubeworld, https://www.tubeworld.com/6922.htm#ccasiemens
  Yes, the above picture included, all varieties of CCas have spacing for the 3 letters. When I mean spacing, I mean that the letters should not touch one another.
   
  However, if you look at the NOS Siemens CCas sold by *musculitohifi,*
*Just select any NOS siemens CCas from his feedback.*
   
  you can see
   

   
  that the "CCa" letters are all stuck together! They are touching one another without any spacing at all.
   
  I will let other people draw their conclusions.
   
  But I invite everyone to ask themselves this 1 question,
   
  If all the various (as can be seen by Tubeworld's CCas over different eras) Siemens CCas ever produced have spacing in between each letter, why does this particular Ebay seller have a special breed of "CCa" without any spacing?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> I emailed Musculitohifi and he responded:
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  1. As I mentioned before, I happen to own samples of different varieties of the entire range of Siemens Halske tubes (PCC88, ECC88, E88CC , CCa, E188CC, E288CC) and even non Siemens labelled e.g. RCA tubes. All of them without fail, if they are made by Siemens Halske, they have the =/= etching on the glass. This etching cannot be removed. Yes, I use 99% alcohol to clean my tubes, especially the really old NOS yucky ones.
  Not even alcohol can remove the =/= etching.
  For some unexplained reason, the Siemens CCas I bought from this musculitohifi does not have the =/= etching.
  Anyone else (besides this musculitohifi of course) out there who has the opposite experience?
   
  2. Another sign of fake tubes produced by Chinese factories is the use of persistent paint. Real NOS tubes have a paint (normally white) which has turned chalky due to age. They are also easily removed.
  For all the NOS tubes (not just including Siemens) I own, I have never come across any exception to this.
   
   
   
  3. My other Siemens Halske (Blue and Yellow box) are aged yellow on the inside. Paper or cardboard will turn into this colour due to age.
  However, this particular seller's boxes are pure white on the inside flaps.
  The only way to achieve this is to store your entire tube boxes in a humidity controlled environment for over 5 to 6 decades.
  We have to ask, for a seller who has endless supplies of Siemens, Valvo and Telefunken CCas, is this likely?
   
  The strange thing about this Ebay seller is that the internal structures all check out fine.
  As in his Siemens CCas have the gold pins, top ridges, crease on the getter holder and number at the bottom....etc.
   
  So this seller is either
   
  (a) selling a "special" breed of genuine CCas which do not have the above features, which makes him the only one in the entire world  
   
  or
   
  (b) selling CCas which are mass produced by some master forger in some Chinese factory out there. We just happen to have caught them out with a couple of discrepancies.
   
  As before, I invite others to draw their own conclusions about this matter.


----------



## Misterrogers

On the same topic, my anonymous 'tube wizard' friend has this to say...
   
  "FYI, The Siemens in the picture above definitely have fake labels. Siemens and Halske Logo and text is too regular and out of proportion for old style printing and atypical of modern screen print job. Tubes are genuine Siemens E88CC relabeled to increase value. Good chance the tubes are pulls from equipment, washed and relabeled."
   
  I trust him. He's seen thousands of tubes.
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] [/size]


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Thank you,mystery tube wizard. 

Lol the more I think about that sentence the funnier it becomes.


----------



## Locknar

Hello Misterrogers,
   
  I have a question for the 'Tube Wizard'. I just received (from eBay) 5 Brimar ECC88 tubes that have a Foreign BVA stamp. They all have the duel getter support with the flying saucer getter typical of the Russian Mil. Spec. 6N1P and 6N23P. I've been searching the web to find examples of this but have found nothing. Oh great Tube Wizard, are these fakes?
   
  Thanks for your time.
   





  J


----------



## Misterrogers

The Tube Wizard has blessed you with a response:
   
  "Your guess is right. Russian tubes with fake Brimar label. STC/Brimar tubes have etched codes on glass"
   




  Quote: 





locknar said:


> Hello Misterrogers,
> 
> I have a question for the 'Tube Wizard'. I just received (from eBay) 5 Brimar ECC88 tubes that have a Foreign BVA stamp. They all have the duel getter support with the flying saucer getter typical of the Russian Mil. Spec. 6N1P and 6N23P. I've been searching the web to find examples of this but have found nothing. Oh great Tube Wizard, are these fakes?
> 
> ...


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

misterrogers said:


> The Tube Wizard has blessed you with a response:
> 
> "Your guess is right. Russian tubes with fake Brimar label. STC/Brimar tubes have etched codes on glass"
> 
> :wink_face:




I'm going to laugh my butt off when tube wizard turns out to be mr. rogers alter ego


----------



## Misterrogers

Ha! wouldn't that be funny! All I can honestly say, is that to the best of my knowledge - other people see the Tube Wizard too


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> The Tube Wizard has blessed you with a response:
> 
> "Your guess is right. Russian tubes with fake Brimar label. STC/Brimar tubes have etched codes on glass"


 
   
  I think there is a fair chance that the _label_ is legit. It does say "foreign" after all. Stranger things could have happened.


----------



## IEMCrazy

With the stock GE's I seem to find a significant number of tubes that develop an intermittent high-pitched whine.  On one pair it was very frequent, almost constant. I changed out the bad one of the pair, and it was good at first, but then started in on the replacement too.  It's intermittent with a high frequency whine for a few moments, then goes away, then comes back for a few moments, then goes away.  It seems to entirely go away after 1-1.5hours of warmup.
   
  I noticed yesterday that one of the tubes on my SECOND Lyr started doing the same thing.   So that's three individual tubes doing that from my reserves of the BZ07's, plus the Japanese BZ07's before that that were just horribly, horribly microphonic and also screeched periodically.  The whining is present both in high impedance (HD650) and low-impedance (HE-400, K702) headphones.
   
  So my question for the entry into tube rolling is this: Is that a known issue among BZ07 and other tubes, and are there recommendations for tubes that are likely to avoid that type of issue?
   
  Getting rid of that kind of noise is my prime concern, but if the headphones in play matter for the recommendation, I'd be using mostly HD650, HE-400, and some K702.  I have D5k, but I use that on the SS amp instead.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

iemcrazy said:


> With the stock GE's I seem to find a significant number of tubes that develop an intermittent high-pitched whine.  On one pair it was very frequent, almost constant. I changed out the bad one of the pair, and it was good at first, but then started in on the replacement too.  It's intermittent with a high frequency whine for a few moments, then goes away, then comes back for a few moments, then goes away.  It seems to entirely go away after 1-1.5hours of warmup.
> 
> I noticed yesterday that one of the tubes on my SECOND Lyr started doing the same thing.   So that's three individual tubes doing that from my reserves of the BZ07's, plus the Japanese BZ07's before that that were just horribly, horribly microphonic and also screeched periodically.  The whining is present both in high impedance (HD650) and low-impedance (HE-400, K702) headphones.
> 
> ...





Have you tried burning the tubes in. Alot times when I get new tubes(mainly nos) there is a bit a weirdness going on in the background,pops,clicks, and squeals. Most of that goes away with an extended burn in. I am not familiar with the bz07 however


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Have you tried burning the tubes in. Alot times when I get new tubes(mainly nos) there is a bit a weirdness going on in the background,pops,clicks, and squeals. Most of that goes away with an extended burn in. I am not familiar with the bz07 however


 
   
  6BZ7 rather 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I had a momentary confusion with some other model number entirely unrelated to audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I mean the stock GE's from Schiit.
   
  In terms of burn-in, I presume you mean just general extended use?  I often leave them on for many hours at a time, especially on weekends where I'll turn it on in the morning and leave it on until the end of the night.  That should be plenty of burn-in.
   
  Pops, clicks, etc only happen before warmup in these cases (which I usually warm up for an hour or so), but the squeals seem to intermittantly come and go.  On one of the bad three, it goes away after 1-2 hours.  On two of the bad three, it doesn't matter how long it warms up it still fades in and out periodically.
   
  I wonder how many hours of burn-in would be required if you're right?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

iemcrazy said:


> 6BZ7 rather    I had a momentary confusion with some other model number entirely unrelated to audio    I mean the stock GE's from Schiit.
> 
> In terms of burn-in, I presume you mean just general extended use?  I often leave them on for many hours at a time, especially on weekends where I'll turn it on in the morning and leave it on until the end of the night.  That should be plenty of burn-in.




Let me guess, a coffee maker..... thats all that came up when I did a google search for the tubes

Let it run for a day or more with music playing and if that doesnt work I would contact schiit about exchanging your tubes


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Let me guess, a coffee maker..... thats all that came up when I did a google search for the tubes
> Let it run for a day or more with music playing and if that doesnt work I would contact schiit about exchanging your tubes


 
   
  I'll try it with extended music, but I'm doubtful.   I've been through quite a few tubes.   My first two Lyrs came with the nasty micrphonic Japanese version.  Schiit exchanged those out for me after they started going bad early on.  I bought 6 pairs of backup GEs (I actually like the sound of them).  Of those, I installed 4 (2 in each Lyr), I swapped one out due to the almost constant screech.  Now one in each is having the intermittent screech.  I could swap those, and I may, but still, it seems like either something with those tube models specifically, or something common to all tubes that I just happen to be sensitive to.  And before you ask, yes its tubes since swapping which tube is where swaps the channel the screech is in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thus why I wanted to check with tube rollers to see if it's a known thing with those and if others are known to be more silent or not. I'll have to give your idea a try though.  Other than tube rolling, it seems like the only option to try.


----------



## Striation

IEMCrazy.
  When I hear someone say high frequency whine I immediately think electrical interference.  Might be dirty power, bad shielding or someone's power equipment coming down the line.  I have never experienced any whines with my Lyr or associated tubes.
   
  Good Luck,
  Stri


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I'll try it with extended music, but I'm doubtful.   I've been through quite a few tubes.   My first two Lyrs came with the nasty micrphonic Japanese version.  Schiit exchanged those out for me after they started going bad early on.  I bought 6 pairs of backup GEs (I actually like the sound of them).  Of those, I installed 4 (2 in each Lyr), I swapped one out due to the almost constant screech.  Now one in each is having the intermittent screech.  I could swap those, and I may, but still, it seems like either something with those tube models specifically, or something common to all tubes that I just happen to be sensitive to.  And before you ask, yes its tubes since swapping which tube is where swaps the channel the screech is in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Im usually the nicest guy in the world so I will continue to be and help you do yourself a favor take those things I mean the GE's open your front door and see if you can hit a passing car...
  If you want the quality of sound that the Lyr and your HD650's are capable of producing you are going to have to spend some monies.. As many times as I put those GE's in it last's less than a song no matter what phones I use..
  By being perfectly honest this is the only way I can help you...  ôô


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





weitn said:


> After burned in my NOS Amperex Bugleboy rare large halo getter (made in Holland) which I ordered from audiotubes.com for more than 100 hours, the tubes open up and sounds better than before. Compared to GE 6BZ7, it has wider soundstage, more depth, extended bass and extended treble (without iritating hissing), very smooth SQ, bass is more punchy and solid and richer mid. Overall, the SQ is much more enjoyable than 6BZ7. With the Amperex, I don't have to turn the volume as loud as when using 6BZ7. With the 6BZ7 because the mid are slightly recess, I have to crank up the volume to 11 o'clock to hear more mid, which is not good (loud volume) for the ear in the long term. With the Amperex, the SQ already sound good when I turn on Lyr. Thus, I don't have to wait for Lyr to fully warm up. Meaning that there is less waste of tubes life waiting for amp to warm up. These tubes definitely have taken my listening pleasure to a higher level. For now, I am gonna stick with these tubes. My next upgrade will be the headphone cable for my HD650 which I have decided on Toxic Cables.


 
  You are correct I have many Amperex tubes the large O getters are usually easy to obtain at good prices but the GE's are not even in the same league for comparison Im just glad you got some  descent tubes.. Now open up your door and see if you can hit a car with those things the GE's hahaha


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





striation said:


> IEMCrazy.
> When I hear someone say high frequency whine I immediately think electrical interference.  Might be dirty power, bad shielding or someone's power equipment coming down the line.  I have never experienced any whines with my Lyr or associated tubes.
> 
> Good Luck,
> Stri


 
   
  hahah give it time my friend. Lets see what have I heard Pop's, hisses that sound inhuman. weird scream time thing's. whines like a kitten being mutilated 
  Now on the large tubes like in some of my Gutiar Amps the EL34's and 6L6's that burn like hells fire they run so hot with so much current going through them I have had smoke weird blue flames flying around the bad thing about Guitar amps is they do not self Bias accept a couple you have to
  take it apart and be very very carefull cause if you touch the wrong spot ummm ... You die... It sucks Biasing large tubes I have gotten use to it but it still scares the crap out of me..


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





striation said:


> IEMCrazy.
> When I hear someone say high frequency whine I immediately think electrical interference.  Might be dirty power, bad shielding or someone's power equipment coming down the line.  I have never experienced any whines with my Lyr or associated tubes.
> 
> Good Luck,
> Stri


 
   
  I see where you're going, but not in this case.  I've heard power line issues and interference issues.  This is a tube issue.  And the tube issue can be demonstrated by moving the channel the sound is in by switching tubes.  And different individual tubes seem to have the issue in different intervals, or behave better than others. 
   
  Also the O2 SS amp I have on the same circuit does not experience the problem, and that thing's cheapie power supply is far more susceptible to line interference than Lyrs, not that Lyr hasn't picked up ugliness from time to time. 
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Im usually the nicest guy in the world so I will continue to be and help you do yourself a favor take those things I mean the GE's open your front door and see if you can hit a passing car...
> If you want the quality of sound that the Lyr and your HD650's are capable of producing you are going to have to spend some monies.. As many times as I put those GE's in it last's less than a song no matter what phones I use..
> By being perfectly honest this is the only way I can help you...  ôô


 
   
  LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I don't doubt that different tubes sound much better, though for $10 a piece I really don't mind the GE's.  Heck they sound better for 650 and HE-400 than my near-dead-flat SS amp does.  I don't mind going into upgrades though, so long as I'm not likely to buy a pricy tube that will end up with the same whining issue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That's why I'm here!
   
  Improved SQ is always good.  But whines, crackles, etc are utterly destructive to music enjoyment, so that's the first thing that must go.  If I can improve SQ in the mean-time, why not?
   
  So guide me, to the light, oh car destroyer, with some tube recommendations for improved SQ that will be fairly unlikely to squeal, screech, crackle, or get crazy microphonic like the Japanese GE's did (tapping my HP cable anywhere would send a gong-like ring through the tubes on those things by the end after a mere 300 hours.)
   
  If you need some musical info for recommendations: I'd be driving HD650 w/ Silver Dragon cable, HE-400 (maybe with Blue, maybe Black Dragon, maybe stock Canare, haven't decided yet.), K702 (possibly with Black Dragon, haven't decided yet.)  Probably not the Denon D5k, too sensitive, I have the O2 just for them.   Maybe someday LCD2 or HD800 if I have a moment of weakness, but I'm hoping that I don't feel the need to go that far at present insane pricing.  Even with lousy GE's the silver cabled HD650 sounds amazing (though at present price, they'd better, considering that combo costs almost as much as LCD-2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  I listen to a bit of everything, classical, opera, jazz, world, bluegrass, salsa & latin jazz.  Very little in terms of rock/pop, but some.  And anything chill/downtempo/electronica can be omitted since that's for the Denons, and those are on the O2. 
   
  Something with reduced gain would almost not hurt, and something with increased gain would absolutely hurt, I get very little use of the volume dial with the Squeezebox on "fixed 100% volume."  Dropping the volume on it means digital gain adjustment, which is bad, though it works in 24-bit space, so in reality I should have 12db to play with or so before digital gain has any SQ effect. I do have to drop digital gain for the Denons. 
   
  I don't want to spend a fortune on top-tier tubes, Bugle Boys and the like, no need with this setup, and I don't like the idea of investing *too* much in a tube since, stuff happens....they can go unpredictably bad, something can break them, whatever.   I have no preference for NOS or production, but I realize the lower quality overall of the majority of new production.  I haven't involved myself in tube rolling prior, so, perhaps you have a slide-o-matic chart or something to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Still, quality aside, I really don't think the GE SQ is all that bad, in fact I think it's quite good compared to SS amps.  Perhaps not compared to high tier tubes, but compared to non-tubes, it's great. It's the build and the endless "whining" sounds that I seem to get no matter how many tubes I discard.  I consider a pair of GE's costing at least $60 since you need 3 sets to find two clean tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



    

  Edit: I've previously seen Bugle Boy at over $300 a pair. I just saw them listed somewhere for a lot less than that, so my "top tier" reference could possibly be misguided.  I'm not sure the going rates on most tubes.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Iemcrazy you are right about the sound quality of new produced tubes but I can say if quiet is your priority you might look into some. All the newly made tubes I have are dead silent right from the start, and they are relatively inexpensive like >$50 a pair


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Iemcrazy you are right about the sound quality of new produced tubes but I can say if quiet is your priority you might look into some. All the newly made tubes I have are dead silent right from the start, and they are relatively inexpensive like >$50 a pair


 
   
  It's a definite possibility, though Tube Depot will do noise testing/matching, so that may even things out for anything they have in stock.  I just noticed that. 
   
  Does anyone have experience with Black Sable?  They have the advantage of being new production JJ, but seem to be a premium design intended to mimic NOS sound.  Could be an option.  There's so many options out there, new and old, it definitely gets overwhelming when diving into it!


----------



## paradoxper

what is Black Sable?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> what is Black Sable?


 
   
  I take it back.  I thought it was a premium line from JJ, apparently it's just a special cryo treatment process by a particular tube vendor.  So much for that idea!
   
  Though what it does seem to do is guarantee arduous testing for noise floor and matching, as well as pre-burn-in, so it's still an interesting line.  But I doubt it's specifically much better than any tube that's been burned in, tested, and matched.
   
  Back do the drawing board, and I'm open to suggestions!


----------



## Rope

Microphonic tubes have a special place in audio reproduction, trash can, or as the Scary One so eliquently put it, drive by tossing through the front door.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





rope said:


> Microphonic tubes have a special place in audio reproduction, trash can, or as the Scary One so eliquently put it, drive by tossing through the front door.


 
   
  Hehe, this is strangely not microphonics.  I know microphonics...the Japanese 6BZ7s were the standing definition of microphonics.  These just have a periodic whine or "ring".  It sounds like when your ear is ringing almost...it fades in, lasts for a few moments, fades out.   (Well the one tube did it almost constantly.) Just enough to drive me nuts.  They don't respond microphonically to tapping on the chassis or anything like that, dead silent in that way.
   
  I'm sure if I bought a boatload of GEs I could easily go through a few boxes and get two quiet tubes (two of mine are quiet now.)  But once the price starts going up to $60, $80 etc to get quiet tubes, why not just spend it on better tubes?


----------



## IEMCrazy

I just realized the initials on the box in big letters for tubes using the "Black Sable" cryogenic treading process is: "BS".  Kind of fitting for cryo treatment.  Though I'm sure the QC on the tubes is worth some of the price, if only they weren't JJs. 
   
  Genalex Gold Lions seem like a new production option at a reasonable price.  Any other options from folks (new or old?)


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I just realized the initials on the box in big letters for tubes using the "Black Sable" cryogenic treading process is: "BS".  Kind of fitting for cryo treatment.  Though I'm sure the QC on the tubes is worth some of the price, if only they weren't JJs.
> 
> Genalex Gold Lions seem like a new production option at a reasonable price.  Any other options from folks (new or old?)


 
  That's pretty funny. Would be nice if there were a way to prove that cryogenics actually 
  even work. (Meaning make tubes last longer or whatever)
   
  If you're not really willing to spend the big bucks for Siemens or Lorenz, you should look at Amperex white labels as well as the Mullard CV2492 and CV2493.
   
  I'm surprised you didn't like the Nationals.


----------



## IEMCrazy

The $300/pair CV2492?  Seems a little pricy for a first try at tube rolling...
   
  I haven't tried Nationals....I can't actually find anyone selling them either


----------



## paradoxper

Well, I got my Mullards for $200/pair. It was just a potential recommendation. It beats the price of some of the more pricey CCa's.
  I'm sure you'll get a handful more of options, I just would say they're so so IMO. The likes of Gold Lions, Nationals, Amperex orange labels,
  Would fall into that category for me. I'm not saying you couldn't enjoy any of those tubes, I would just recommend getting a pair of
  Lorenz (IF you can somehow find them) Siemens, or Mullards. 
   
  But regardless I think you'll decide on a pair and enjoy them. The stock tubes Schiit offers are ok, anything other is a step-up


----------



## Misterrogers

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> The $300/pair CV2492?  Seems a little pricy for a first try at tube rolling...
> 
> I haven't tried Nationals....I can't actually find anyone selling them either


 
  TubeMonger has them for $160 a pair I think.


----------



## paradoxper

$75 a matched pair. But they only have the CV2492. Still I'd jump on 'em.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> TubeMonger has them for $160 a pair I think.


 
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> $75 a matched pair. But they only have the CV2492. Still I'd jump on 'em.


 
   
  Thanks, both of you, I placed an order for them!  I didn't expect to be jumping up to Mullard level this early in the journey, but at that price, they were cheaper than some of the new manufacture stuff I was looking at like Gold Lions.  Not bad at all, even if they're somewhat used.  Hopefully they'll last a good long time and more importantly, hopefully the won't be microphonic/whiney
   
  That's one thing I liked about Tube Depot is that for $4 they'll do either matching/balancing or noise/microphonics testing for the order....but they don't have some of this more exotic stuff, and the stuff they do is $$$.
   
  I'd have spent $25 more for a pair of cryo-treated JJs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Though those would have been noise-tested.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> $75 a matched pair. But they only have the CV2492. Still I'd jump on 'em.


 
  Only one pair left in stock.


----------



## paradoxper

There were 3. And IEM just got a pair. I'd really look for the CV2493 they're far superior IMO.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> There were 3. And IEM just got a pair. I'd really look for the CV2493 they're far superior IMO.


 
   
  Maybe so, but at the NOS price for the CV2492, I'd hate to see what CV2493's are selling for.  Getting the 92's used is fair enough in price, but some places are charging $150 or so each tube for these things.  Especially with NOS type stuff where one never knows how long it will really last.
   
  BTW, for your Mullards, do they take as long to warm up as the GEs?  I've found the GE's don't hit their stride for 45min to an hour.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Maybe so, but at the NOS price for the CV2492, I'd hate to see what CV2493's are selling for.  Getting the 92's used is fair enough in price, but some places are charging $150 or so each tube for these things.  Especially with NOS type stuff where one never knows how long it will really last.
> 
> BTW, for your Mullards, do they take as long to warm up as the GEs?  I've found the GE's don't hit their stride for 45min to an hour.


 
   
  Well, as I said I got my CV2493's for $200/pair from Upscaleaudio. 
   
  You'd really only be pressed to pay that kind of money for CCa's and maybe some Amperex Holland. 
  And yea, I agree with not knowing how long they're going to last, especially if you're dealing with the Wild West (Ebay)
   
  I don't pay attention to tube warmup. I don't do the hour warmup thing. I turn it on and listen. I do believe an hour later music sounds
  much better. But placebos are everywhere.


----------



## MickeyVee

Any comments on the Gold Lions.. did some research this afternoon and their 'marketing hype' looks good.  Would like some feedback on them if anyone has tried them. I really can't see paying more than $100 for a set of tubes.. glad I picked up my Lorenz Stuttgart and Amperex for that a while ago.  No way I'd pay current asking prices. Anyway, here's the marketing spiel on the Gold Lions..
   
_With clarity and detail flowing over the entire musical bandwidth, the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 tube presents an articulate tone very reminiscent of vintage hand selected Amperex E88CC tubes. A bold sounding tube that warmly embraces the midrange and low end without unbalancing the crystalline highs, the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 marries the finest materials and surgical like construction resulting in the finest tube made today. The full shielding between the two triodes insures incredibly low cross-talk distortion, perfect for minute sources such as phonograph cartridges and tube microphones where every nuance is important. The noise cancelling spiral filaments, thick structural mica spacers, and gold plated contact pins round out the finishing foundations that make this Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 tube the top choice for discriminating audiophile applications._
   
  Hype/BS, the truth or somewhere in between?
   
  Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Genalex Gold Lions seem like a new production option at a reasonable price.  Any other options from folks (new or old?)


----------



## weitn

Have anyone tried the Sophia Electric 12AU7 tubes? Can I use these on Lyr? I was attracted to it by the good comment listed (see below) in their website. Is it really that good? Grade A (top 10%) cost $100 per tube.
   
_"Received date: April 4, 2011_
_I was very impressed with your 12AU7's I bought from you. I just tried them in an Eastern Electric Mini Max DAC going straight into the Baby Amplifier I also bought from you and too my preamp out of the equation to hear more clearly the tube changes. This particular DAC has (1) 12AU7 in the output stage._
_I had used a rare NOS Siemens Silverplate 12AU7 and a Mullard Longplate double crossbar D getter with the K61 etched date code etched in the glass that I have on loan to try out._
_The Siemens is very clear, very open, and very natural sounding and very balanced from top to bottom._
_The Mullard is rich and warm with a big soundstage, fuller sounding voices and instruments with very vivid overtones with excellent air around each performer, and more powerful bass._
_The Sophia Electric 12AU7 took all of the above virtues and combined it into (1) tube maintaining the excellent clarity and naturallness of the Siemens, but also expressing musical overtones, soundstaging, vividness of the performers, and powerful bass and excellent dynamics of the Mullard._
_The above opinion was confirmed by a close friend who joined my in my listening test and has built his own tube amplifiers for some time and, whenever possible, also favors the Sophia Electric Tubes._
_Well Done!_
_Dr. Glenn A. Thomas, M.D."_
   
http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/12ax7-12au7.htm


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

weitn said:


> Have anyone tried the Sophia Electric 12AU7 tubes? Can I use these on Lyr? I was attracted to it by the good comment listed (see below) in their website. Is it really that good? Grade A (top 10%) cost $100 per tube.
> 
> _"Received date: April 4, 2011_
> _I was very impressed with your 12AU7's I bought from you. I just tried them in an Eastern Electric Mini Max DAC going straight into the Baby Amplifier I also bought from you and too my preamp out of the equation to hear more clearly the tube changes. This particular DAC has (1) 12AU7 in the output stage._
> ...




Unfortunately the 12au7 are a 12 volt tube. The Lyr is rated for 6 volt tubes (6922, 6dj8, etc)


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Any comments on the Gold Lions.. did some research this afternoon and their 'marketing hype' looks good.  Would like some feedback on them if anyone has tried them. I really can't see paying more than $100 for a set of tubes.. glad I picked up my Lorenz Stuttgart and Amperex for that a while ago.  No way I'd pay current asking prices. Anyway, here's the marketing spiel on the Gold Lions..
> 
> _With clarity and detail flowing over the entire musical bandwidth, the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 tube presents an articulate tone very reminiscent of vintage hand selected Amperex E88CC tubes. A bold sounding tube that warmly embraces the midrange and low end without unbalancing the crystalline highs, the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 marries the finest materials and surgical like construction resulting in the finest tube made today. The full shielding between the two triodes insures incredibly low cross-talk distortion, perfect for minute sources such as phonograph cartridges and tube microphones where every nuance is important. The noise cancelling spiral filaments, thick structural mica spacers, and gold plated contact pins round out the finishing foundations that make this Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 tube the top choice for discriminating audiophile applications._
> 
> Hype/BS, the truth or somewhere in between?


 
  That is such marketing crap.
   
  The Gold Lions are good. Many people believe they hold up well against the likes of the Mullard CV2492.
  I wouldn't say the Gold Lions are that good, but they best many Amperex I've heard. Also, the bugle boys which are highly regarded.
   
  I'm going to assume you've got some white label Amperex? And good on you for having a pair of Lorenz.


----------



## MickeyVee

Thanks.. they may be worth a try..
  The Amperex I have are ECC88 A-Frame, Dimpled Disc getter, Made in Holland, PQ Label (whatever that means)
  My Lyr arrives on Monday.. I'm almost afraid of putting the Lorenz in given that I'll probably never see another one.  Going to start with the stock GE and work from there. The seller is also shipping a pair of Russian NOS tubes but did not specify which.  Guess I find out next week.
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> That is such marketing crap.
> 
> The Gold Lions are good. Many people believe they hold up well against the likes of the Mullard CV2492.
> I wouldn't say the Gold Lions are that good, but they best many Amperex I've heard. Also, the bugle boys which are highly regarded.
> ...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Thanks.. they may be worth a try..
> The Amperex I have are ECC88 A-Frame, Dimpled Disc getter, Made in Holland, PQ Label (whatever that means)
> My Lyr arrives on Monday.. I'm almost afraid of putting the Lorenz in given that I'll probably never see another one.  Going to start with the stock GE and work from there. The seller is also shipping a pair of Russian NOS tubes but did not specify which.  Guess I find out next week.


 
  Yea, I figured they'be be the very good Amperex. You'll wait another lifetime to pickup 
  a Lorenz. Or I should say we'll all be waiting a lifetime.
   
  I'd pop those babies in right away, the wait always sucks. Might as well get that instant gratification.
   
  I'd try them out if you're not really considering any other tubes atm. They are good,
  they're my favorite out of the "bottom feeders" Lorenz and Mullard CV2493 are my favorites.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Well, as I said I got my CV2493's for $200/pair from Upscaleaudio.
> 
> You'd really only be pressed to pay that kind of money for CCa's and maybe some Amperex Holland.
> And yea, I agree with not knowing how long they're going to last, especially if you're dealing with the Wild West (Ebay)
> ...


 
   
  Amperex Hollands, NOS, cost almost as much as the Lyr at the moment at some vendors.  That's the one problem with tube rolling threads.  By the time any recommendation becomes standard wisdom, the price has tripled, and the item is nearly extinct 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Yeah, my two fears with buying any used, or even NOS tube are that I'll still end up with noise/microphonics just like the cheap ones, or that they just won't last long.  Especially used ones.  Tubemonger seems to test them, but that only goes so far with this old stuff.  The Japanese 6BZ7s were ok out of the box, got microphonic in 100 hours, ultra microphonic in 200, and started failing in 300.   At $10 who cares.  At $100+ I would be highly upset with that kind of issue.  And if I get the intermittent whining with such tubes...ugh.  That's why I wanted to go on the cheaper side first time through, but you guys finding me that price on Mullards was close enough to be worthwhile, used or no!
   
  Yeah, there's lots of placebo in audio (don't some insist all these tubes sound the same? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Regarding warmup, I've found a few things though.  Yes it sounds much better.  I found that especially so on high impedance (HD650) than with low impedance (HE-400, K702.)  It could just be the GE's though.  For me, with the GEs for the first 15 minutes or so there's plenty of crackle and noise floor, so 15 is essential.  After 45min to one hour, on my one set of GEs I don't have the whine anymore (or at least not often).   On the other set I still get it sometimes.  So the 1-8hour session is sort of the standard for me.  Maybe with different tubes I'll change my thoughts on that.  Especially since I'll try to prolong them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Unless I get whining...then I'm just getting new production JJs and being done with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> That is such marketing crap.
> 
> The Gold Lions are good. Many people believe they hold up well against the likes of the Mullard CV2492.
> I wouldn't say the Gold Lions are that good, but they best many Amperex I've heard. Also, the bugle boys which are highly regarded.
> ...


 
   
  Good to know.  sooner or later I'll probably end up with Gold Lions.  They're pricy for new production, but the idea of a new production tube that performs well, especially if it will be in the realm of CV2492 once I get used to them, they could be a good standard replacement if everything else exotic is too expensive by then.  There's something to be said for the quasi-stability of new production.  I'd probably have gone that route, but they were more expensive, this time, than the real deal...
   
  Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Thanks.. they may be worth a try..
> The Amperex I have are ECC88 A-Frame, Dimpled Disc getter, Made in Holland, PQ Label (whatever that means)
> My Lyr arrives on Monday.. I'm almost afraid of putting the Lorenz in given that I'll probably never see another one.  Going to start with the stock GE and work from there. The seller is also shipping a pair of Russian NOS tubes but did not specify which.  Guess I find out next week.


 
   
  Probably the generic 6N1P from Schiit.  
   
  I think any new production is probably worth a try these days, and the Golden Lion seems to be one of the better new production tubes out there just by short reputation.  Nothing new may compare to the ancient stuff, but at the rate its being run through, soon there won't be a lot of ancient stuff out there at anything near affordability (or decent condition),
   
  Sadly most new tubes other than JJ/Tesla(which no one seems to like) seem to be made by New Sensor (Sovtek, Electro-Harmonix, Genalex seems to be.)  There aren't many other choices these days. 
   
  Speaking of placebo though, I do wonder how much the charm and mystique of old tubes contributes to them sounding better? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Yea, I figured they'be be the very good Amperex. You'll wait another lifetime to pickup
> a Lorenz. Or I should say we'll all be waiting a lifetime.
> 
> I'd pop those babies in right away, the wait always sucks. Might as well get that instant gratification.
> ...


 
   
  Nah, I disagree, I'd try the GE first so you can appreciate what you're hearing when you try the Amperex/Lorenz.  It would be like trying HD650 without first trying ibuds to do otherwise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Question for you guys: Is it bad to try a tube to test it if you're not going to use it for a while?  I.E. I have 30 days to know if my Mullards are indeed in satisfactory condition, but I'd like to put them away after that until fall/winter to sort of treat myself after the summer months. And who knows, maybe I'll try a set of gold lions by then too to see how new production compares and save the Mullards a bit.


----------



## MickeyVee

Holy cr@p.. good thing that I've been following this thread for a while and jumped on what everyone seemed to like.  I've had the tubes since last fall.  Maybe I could have sold both sets and paid for the Lyr outright.  (just kidding).
  Anyway, looking forward to it.  I'll test all the tubes when I get the Lyr to make sure they're OK.. obviously, they're well past the return period and I know that's a risk I'd be taking.
   
  Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Amperex Hollands, NOS, cost almost as much as the Lyr at the moment at some vendors.  That's the one problem with tube rolling threads.  By the time any recommendation becomes standard wisdom, the price has tripled, and the item is nearly extinct


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> There were 3. And IEM just got a pair. I'd really look for the CV2493 they're far superior IMO.


 
   
   
  How would a E188CC MULLARD  compare to the above?
Bought some that were  RTC branded.
   
Any ideas?


----------



## netbususer

Hey Misterrogers,
   
  Can you or the tube wizard help answer a quick question for me? I'm in love with the Telefunken sound and am considering picking up one of the CCa's from Upscale Audio. Do the pictures look appropriate and the seller is legit? I know he has had Siemens and Telefunken CCa's for sale for months now and I assumed they would be rare enough that it would be hard to keep them in stock. Everything good on this front?
   
  (P.s. You may not know it, but it's your fault I've found this Telefunken passion when you sent me your Telefunken PCC88's a few weeks ago! How did you let go of these tubes?!?!)


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





netbususer said:


> Hey Misterrogers,
> 
> Can you or the tube wizard help answer a quick question for me? I'm in love with the Telefunken sound and am considering picking up one of the CCa's from Upscale Audio. Do the pictures look appropriate and the seller is legit? I know he has had Siemens and Telefunken CCa's for sale for months now and I assumed they would be rare enough that it would be hard to keep them in stock. Everything good on this front?
> 
> (P.s. You may not know it, but it's your fault I've found this Telefunken passion when you sent me your Telefunken PCC88's a few weeks ago! How did you let go of these tubes?!?!)


 
  Questioning the integrity of Upscale, interesting.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> How would a E188CC MULLARD  compare to the above?
> Bought some that were  RTC branded.
> 
> Any ideas?


 
  Those are nice tubes as well. Personally think they compare to the CV2492 but not the CV2493.
  I am not sure what the RTC brand is. As I bought mine again from UpscaleAudio.


----------



## mikek200

Hi IEM,
   
  "Amperex Hollands, NOS, cost almost as much as the Lyr at the moment at some vendors.  That's the one problem with tube rolling threads.  By the time any recommendation becomes standard wisdom, the price has tripled, and the item is nearly extinct 





 "
   
  Not sure where you've been looking ..but I found these for your consideration
  I own a pair of these ,and they are excellent IMHO,using the Lyr/lcd2's ,and the hd650's
   
    http://app.audiogon.com/listings/pari-amperex-7308-orange-label-globe-logo-pq-matched
   
  Put in a bid....who knows??


----------



## Misterrogers

"Kevin of UpscaleAudio is the real 'deal'. His prices generally may be a touch high, but his tubes are generally well matched, legit NOS. Between his Siemens & Telefunken CCa's, my personal preference would be the Telefunkens. While I'd prefer a 60's Siemens & Halske gray shield CCa, over a Telefunken CCa (both are great, it's very subjective), I'm not a big fan of the 'no shield' wire post CCa's he carries. I've done some rather extensive comparisons between all generations of Siemens and Siemens & Halske CCa's (gray shield, silver shield, a frame, no shield), and prefer them in that order. As always, YMMV, IMO, etc. "
   
  So says the Tube Wizard, er... MisterRogers, err... whatever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





netbususer said:


> Hey Misterrogers,
> 
> Can you or the tube wizard help answer a quick question for me? I'm in love with the Telefunken sound and am considering picking up one of the CCa's from Upscale Audio. Do the pictures look appropriate and the seller is legit? I know he has had Siemens and Telefunken CCa's for sale for months now and I assumed they would be rare enough that it would be hard to keep them in stock. Everything good on this front?
> 
> (P.s. You may not know it, but it's your fault I've found this Telefunken passion when you sent me your Telefunken PCC88's a few weeks ago! How did you let go of these tubes?!?!)


----------



## mikek200

Netbususer,
   
  I'd listen to MRR on this one..
  My first tube purchase was with him..., & those Siemens & Halske tubes grey shields
   
  They are outstanding tubes,only second to my Lorenzes-&-{--no ,they are not for sale...}


----------



## SeaHawk

Sadly, one of my IEC Mullard 6DJ8's passed today (while listening to Pink Floyd, the bitter irony!)
   
  In remembrance, I'll leave you with this interesting Blackburn plant documentary:


----------



## Striation

RIP
   
  Stri


----------



## mikek200

Seahawk,
   
  Sorry to hear about the passing of your tube,which of course give you the opportunity>
  TO BUY MORE!!!!!!
  Also,thanks for the video,..as a newbie tubie,I found it very educational...Mullards are one of my favorite tubes...
   
  A great post..
   
  Tnx,
  Mike


----------



## Striation

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> Sadly, one of my IEC Mullard 6DJ8's passed today (while listening to Pink Floyd, the bitter irony!)
> 
> In remembrance, I'll leave you with this interesting Blackburn plant documentary:


 
  That's a great documentary.
  Thanks,
  Stri


----------



## paradoxper

I also enjoyed that video, very nice.
   
  So what are you going to do with the passing of your Mullards?


----------



## mikek200

A Noveena would be nice!!!..or,
   
  Pull out the old check book,& BUY,BUY,BUY!!
   
  It was a great video,& Mullards are one of my favorite tubes
  Tnx for posting it.


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Have anyone tried the Sophia Electric 12AU7 tubes? Can I use these on Lyr? I was attracted to it by the good comment listed (see below) in their website. Is it really that good? Grade A (top 10%) cost $100 per tube.
> 
> _"Received date: April 4, 2011_
> _I was very impressed with your 12AU7's I bought from you. I just tried them in an Eastern Electric Mini Max DAC going straight into the Baby Amplifier I also bought from you and too my preamp out of the equation to hear more clearly the tube changes. This particular DAC has (1) 12AU7 in the output stage._
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Unfortunately the 12au7 are a 12 volt tube. The Lyr is rated for 6 volt tubes (6922, 6dj8, etc)


 
   
  Damn it! The review sound so good. I thought I have found a good tubes for Lyr. Well... the searching continues for the dream tubes...


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Hi IEM,
> 
> "Amperex Hollands, NOS, cost almost as much as the Lyr at the moment at some vendors.  That's the one problem with tube rolling threads.  By the time any recommendation becomes standard wisdom, the price has tripled, and the item is nearly extinct
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks!  I was referring to the price specifically on the Amperex Holland tubes, not the USA-made Orange Globes.  The Orange is expesnive-ish but still a reasonable value it seems.  The Hollands are outrageous in price, like Lorenz and CV2493!
   
  In the meantime I get to wait for my Mullard CV2492's and see, with my first tube rolling experience outside the GE 6BZ7s if the condition of used/like-new tubes pleases me or if, after that, I'd feel more happy with the stability that comes with some of the better new production tubes like Golden Lion.
   
  The wonderful tone of NOS calls to me (I even love the 6BZ7 in the absence of having heard better) but if the Mullards end up as whiney as the GEs, I may concescend to new production after this experiment.  Not that there's (surprisingly) a shortage of new production options these days.  But those enter the same hyperbole and hype as cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm sensitive to HF noise, so a "poor sounding tube" that omits irritating whines would interfere with the music less than a noisy great sounding tube.  But we'll see.  I suspect the GE's aren't at the top of the quality barrel any more than they are the SQ barrel.
   
  BTW if everyone thought the marketing hype on the Golden Lions was bad, read the hype on the JJ's which seem to be universally hated as dull and bland


----------



## fortunate son

I really wanted to like the Lyr.
   
  I rolled tubes like crazy.
   
  Though I tried a number of highly regarded Amperex, Telefunken, etc. NOS tubes in my collection, the 6BZ7 television tubes sounded the least colored to me.
   
  In any event, for those of you that like the Lyr: congratulations.


----------



## Striation

Of all the tubes I've purchased it seems to me that I don't hear so much of an EQ difference as I do the openess and soundstage between the different brands and types.  Especially the resolution of the different reverbs used in the recordings.  Just my own observation.
   
  Stri


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





fortunate son said:


> I really wanted to like the Lyr.
> 
> I rolled tubes like crazy.
> 
> ...


 
  I think that's kind of the point of Lyr or any tube amp: coloration.  Neutral SS amps are everywhere, I think for those of us that do like Lyr, Bottlehead Crack, WA6, etc, it's explicitly because of the coloration/distortion that we chose it.  If on a quest for lack of coloration and more neutrality, there's cheaper options.   I also have an O2.  It's pretty much the standing definition of neutral and colorless this side of a thousand bucks.  It's a nice amp.  I like Lyr a lot more.  Just preference.
   
  What's good though is that before pre-judging you got a chance to try it and fin dout for yourself that you prefer neutrality.  Hopefully you didn't lose much money along the way and a fortunate head-fi'er got a good deal from you 
   
  I do agree, the 6BZ7 does seem the least colored and the most SS-like.   Still not as dry as SS, but more on those lines.
   
  Which reminds me for the record, my Mullards arrived...astonishingly, unbelievably early.  Oh. My. I see the joy of upgrades.  6BZ7 really is good, but it doesn't add as much euphonic disttortion, nor has as open a stage.  As fortunate son proved, thouggh, not everyone considers that a good thing.  For me though, it's HD650 heaven.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





striation said:


> Of all the tubes I've purchased it seems to me that I don't hear so much of an EQ difference as I do the openess and soundstage between the different brands and types.  Especially the resolution of the different reverbs used in the recordings.  Just my own observation.
> 
> Stri


 
  Versus the GEs, the Mullards seem to have a slight shift toward the bright with a bit more sparkle.  They also seemed to, not add bass , true sub-bass, to HD650 which is impossible, but I think it solidified and tamed the midbass hump even further than the cable's valiant effort.  Those are the minor details though.  As you say, there's a soundstage difference, a slight resolution improvement, and more specifically more euphonic/harmonic distortion in a way that smears out no detail.  Basically there's more tubiness while managing to add more detail too.  
   
  While it's much noticed improvement, I'd have been perfectly happy with the GEs forever were they to not be so crazy noisy.  So far, no squeal on the Mullards (yay)) and no hissing/crackling right after power-up meaning I don't think I need the warm--up rituals anymore.  Since that was my primary focus of my quest for new tubes even above SQ,assuming the silence in the background continues, I'm quite pleased.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I think that's kind of the point of Lyr or any tube amp: coloration.  Neutral SS amps are everywhere, I think for those of us that do like Lyr, Bottlehead Crack, WA6, etc, it's explicitly because of the coloration/distortion that we chose it.  If on a quest for lack of coloration and more neutrality, there's cheaper options.   I also have an O2.  It's pretty much the standing definition of neutral and colorless this side of a thousand bucks.  It's a nice amp.  I like Lyr a lot more.  Just preference.
> 
> What's good though is that before pre-judging you got a chance to try it and fin dout for yourself that you prefer neutrality.  Hopefully you didn't lose much money along the way and a fortunate head-fi'er got a good deal from you
> 
> ...


 
  Have to completely agree. If you want a neutral sound get an O2.
   
  I guess the only problem is he didn't state exactly what it was about the Lyr he didn't like. Though mentioning the tube's least coloration was a hint.
  But then again, why even have a tube amp in the first place, right?
   
  Well, on a completely different note, good to hear you're enjoying the upgrades. Perhaps when you've gotten a little more time on them
  you'll provide some thorough impressions. 
   
  Anyways, enjoy 'em and keep us updated on your tube rolling!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Have to completely agree. If you want a neutral sound get an O2.
> 
> I guess the only problem is he didn't state exactly what it was about the Lyr he didn't like. Though mentioning the tube's least coloration was a hint.
> But then again, why even have a tube amp in the first place, right?
> ...


 
  Will do! I actually ordered a second pair for my second Lyr, and that pair has also arrived.  That set seems to be somewhat microphonic....tapping on the chassis shows up in the tubes   However they sound just as good as the first set, and I'm not too worried about microphonics for a headphone amp so long as it doesnt maniffest in failure or noise.   The background is pure black so long as I ton't touch the chassis.
   
  For a guitar amp or stereo amp it would be different since the bass would contribute tto microphonic vibattion.  As it is even the microphonic pair is far quieter in practice with a black background than the GEs ever were, even when not microphonic ).  Only contact with the amp, physically is an issue.  So far...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Will do! I actually ordered a second pair for my second Lyr, and that pair has also arrived.  That set seems to be somewhat microphonic....tapping on the chassis shows up in the tubes   However they sound just as good as the first set, and I'm not too worried about microphonics for a headphone amp so long as it doesnt maniffest in failure or noise.   The background is pure black so long as I ton't touch the chassis.
> 
> For a guitar amp or stereo amp it would be different since the bass would contribute tto microphonic vibattion.  As it is even the microphonic pair is far quieter in practice with a black background than the GEs ever were, even when not microphonic ).  Only contact with the amp, physically is an issue.  So far...


 
  Good to hear. Also fast shipping must be nice.
   
  I'd have to say that the ting you hear from the tubes if you tap on them is completely normal. I find mine to have no noise at all
  so it shouldn't be too much of a bother.
   
  I am now wondering to myself, which tubes will he buy next. hahaha


----------



## sridhar3

Not sure why people argue about tube vs. solid state.  Just own one of each.  Problem solved.


----------



## paradoxper

I missed the argument.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Good to hear. Also fast shipping must be nice.
> 
> I'd have to say that the ting you hear from the tubes if you tap on them is completely normal. I find mine to have no noise at all
> so it shouldn't be too much of a bother.
> ...


 
  The "ting" when you tap the tubes is normal.  The "dong" if you tap the volume knob is microphonics  But so far, no effect on SQ.  And there's no subwoofer to rattle the tubes around 
   
  The fast shipping is a shock.  USPS usually crawls.  From CA to here via FedEx from Schiit took 7 days, 5 business days.  From Tubemonger it was 2...with USPS.  I'm amazed.  Maybe it was luck.  But the black background right after power-up and the lack of need for a warmup ritual is the real winner of the deal.
   
  I also don't think I'd buy non-gold pin tubes again.  They just click right in.  No grinding/ggrating sound on the pins.  Just "pop" and its in.  The GEs grind their way into the socket and have to be wiggled out.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Not sure why people argue about tube vs. solid state.  Just own one of each.  Problem solved.


 
  +1!  Not only does it let you change your sound easily, but its always good to have redundant hardware in case one fails!


----------



## Rope

I'm puzzled at the prospect of spending as little as possible amount of money on tubes, when the Lyr cost $450.00, and utilizes tubes as the input circuit.  When you consider the tube input is responsible for creating the sinewave that will be amplified by the solid state output.  It stands to reason, well for me anyway, that spending a good amount on the input source, tubes in this case, will promote much better SQ, and enhance the initial investment in the Lyr.
   
  If you're not interested investing a significant amount of money in tubes, purchase solid state and be done with it.
   
  One of my initial tube purchases was the Gold Lions, which I do not care for at all, but remember, not everyone hears the same, or has the same sound prefereces.  You may try 20 different matched pair of tubes before you strike audio gold.  I suppose that's why it's referred to as tube rolling.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> I'm puzzled at the prospect of spending as little as possible amount of money on tubes, when the Lyr cost $450.00, and utilizes tubes as the input circuit.  When you consider the tube input is responsible for creating the sinewave that will be amplified by the solid state output.  It stands to reason, well for me anyway, that spending a good amount on the input source, tubes in this case, will promote much better SQ, and enhance the initial investment in the Lyr.
> 
> If you're not interested investing a significant amount of money in tubes, purchase solid state and be done with it.
> 
> One of my initial tube purchases was the Gold Lions, which I do not care for at all, but remember, not everyone hears the same, or has the same sound prefereces.  You may try 20 different matched pair of tubes before you strike audio gold.  I suppose that's why it's referred to as tube rolling.


 
  Maybe you should remember people have budgets? 
   
  Or maybe ignorance is bliss? So they don't need to pour thousands into tube rolling?
   
  Just a few thoughts, for your over generalized statements.


----------



## Rope

What makes you think I don't have a budget?  Everyone has a budget, and I'm not talking about thousands, more like a few hundred.  If you don't like a set of tubes, sell them and reinvest the proceeds in more tube(s).  My tube collection is small and has taken a year and half to build.  It's not something that has to be collected over night.  Take your time, read carefully, choose wisely, and if you have a local Ham Radio club, make every effort to become acquinted with the members. (great source for tubes at reasonable prices)
   
   
   
  Ignorance is bliss, however, it doesn't do much for SQ, or living in one geographical location all your life, then telling everyone it's the greatest place on earth.


----------



## paradoxper

Who ever said you didn't have a budget? Yea, no one.
   
  I was simply just saying some can invest their money into the Lyr and then not afford tubes.
  Or simply choose not to go down the rabbit hole.
   
  Who are "WE" to tell anyone they need/have to get more?
   
  But it was you who said "If you're not going to invest in tubes go SS."
  We all hear differently and as has been discussed before some people can't tell the
  difference between Lorenz, CCa, JJ or GE's. So why would they "waste" their money?
  It's a silly generalization you made. And you can't really say they're wrong, can you?
   
  Would it be so wrong to have 1 tube and be fine with it? hahaha
   
  Oh, and I can say New Mexico is the greatest place on earth, because that's something 
  subjective (Opinion). You can sit there and say "ignorance is bliss, however, it doesn't do much for SQ."
  But again you simply can't say what they're hearing is wrong. It's their ears.
   
  For some they don't have to chase that audible bliss in a never ending cycle.
  They can be completely happy enjoying the music and again not focusing on gear.


----------



## Kremer930

Since the thread is for tube rolling...it makes sense that it would promote experimentation with sampling alternative tube options. Let's move on.....

If anyone is interested I have a set of matched Gold Lions with approx 30 hours on them that I don't use. I have been using my portable rig mainly of late.


----------



## Rope

If one does not have the means to purchase, or hear different sound signatures tubes have to offer.  It's evident "some" purchased the incorrect amp, and by sticking their head in the sand won't make it the correct amp.
   
  Oh, you're correct, New Mexico is the greatest place on earth.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> If one does not have the means to purchase, or hear different sound signatures tubes have to offer.  It's evident "some" purchased the incorrect amp, and by sticking their head in the sand won't make it the correct amp.
> 
> Oh, you're correct, New Mexico is the greatest place on earth.


 
  Ah, fair enough. hahaha I would encourage others to tube roll but they don't hav'ta.
   
  Anyways, I like the idea of everyone sharing what they're currently rolling.
  So to get this back on topic, what do ya currently have Rope?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





rope said:


> If one does not have the means to purchase, or hear different sound signatures tubes have to offer.  It's evident "some" purchased the incorrect amp, and by sticking their head in the sand won't make it the correct amp.
> 
> Oh, you're correct, New Mexico is the greatest place on earth.


 
  My only two cents on the matter: Better tubes are better, but Lyr still knocks the pants off any neutral SS amp iff you prefer tube sound, even if your tubes are just Schiit. So, no, I don't think avoiding Lyr is required if one doesn't intend to play tube rouette.  
   
  On the other hand, tube roulette is fun, and once you et addicted, like the rest of audio, it'll feed any OCD 
   
  Where the nasty part of expensive tubes comes in though is that the  expensive stuff is expensive not entirely because its better, but because it's rare.  It's more like paying $50 for some out of print import CD.  It's not really a $50 CD, it's just $50 because there's only so many left. Which would be fine if it weren't also a slot machine of "will they fail in 3 weeks or 3 years" with some of this NOS stuff. Or worse, used.  The depressing thing is, in 30 years folks will be paying $300 for those 2012 Gold Lions and seekking their audio perfection.  Of the stuff still around in production, there's only a few contenders, so stuff like the Lions is probably worth trying.  Eventtually that may be all that's left. 
   
  Until the return of the dark ages, I'm enjoying my new found tube hobby though.  This first run was a good test, and I'll see if they last as long as I'd hope.


----------



## Striation

Currently I'm using a pair of Siemens PCC88 gray shields.  I love the air on these guys.  What is everyone else rolling ATM?
   
  Stri


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> My only two cents on the matter: Better tubes are better, but Lyr still knocks the pants off any neutral SS amp iff you prefer tube sound, even if your tubes are just Schiit. So, no, I don't think avoiding Lyr is required if one doesn't intend to play tube rouette.
> 
> On the other hand, tube roulette is fun, and once you et addicted, like the rest of audio, it'll feed any OCD
> 
> ...


 
   
  IEM,
   
  I think you hit the head of the nail with this reply..my sentiments exactly
  AS I'm still new to this hobby,I do find it fun...but,it can get expensive.
  Some guys smoke $100.00 cigars,drink fine scotch,play the ponyies....etc
  Our poison is good SQ
   
  One of the best things I've found,is the support you get from the follow members-yesterday the right driver on my Audeze lcd-2v1...died....man,I thought I lost my best friend!!
  Right away 2/3 follow members pm'd me exactly what to do, to get this thing taken care of...amazing.
   
  Luckily,I have a pair of hd650's & some Lorenz tubes{tnx Paradoxper}..to get me through the weekend.,until I get a reply from Audeze


----------



## paradoxper

I've currently rolled in some Siemen A-frames, been feeling like my Lorenz are getting overused.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ah, fair enough. hahaha I would encourage others to tube roll but they don't hav'ta.
> 
> Anyways, I like the idea of everyone sharing what they're currently rolling.
> So to get this back on topic, what do ya currently have Rope?


 
   
  Since rolling in the Lorenz Stuttgart tubes, I haven't spent a lot of time rolling, that and with warm weather, I spend most of my time with my portable gear.  My sabbatical stash consists of Mullard IEC, Telefunken, Tesla, NOS GE 6BQ7A, Sylvania and some old military Russian tubes.  The Lorenz pretty well spoiled the tube rolling activity for me.  Not to fret, in some dark, dusty warehouse somewhere there are some delightful analog tubes waiting to be discovered.


----------



## Rope

Here's some interesting history for the tube diseased among us. Gives some insight into the tooling and expertise used to create tubes during the necessity era.
   
Sylvania


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I've currently rolled in some Siemen A-frames, been feeling like my Lorenz are getting ove


 
  ??????


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I've currently rolled in some Siemen A-frames, been feeling like my Lorenz are getting overused.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





rope said:


> Since rolling in the Lorenz Stuttgart tubes, I haven't spent a lot of time rolling, that and with warm weather, I spend most of my time with my portable gear.  My sabbatical stash consists of Mullard IEC, Telefunken, Tesla, NOS GE 6BQ7A, Sylvania and some old military Russian tubes.  The Lorenz pretty well spoiled the tube rolling activity for me.  Not to fret, in some dark, dusty warehouse somewhere there are some delightful analog tubes waiting to be discovered.


 
  +1 on switching mostly to the portable gear with the hot weather.  I'm pretty much in the same boat, but I've been listening to the good gear more than I expected since I've only had my Mullards a few days    Besides, the SE535's ned their day to shine too...
   
  How do you think the NOS Teslas compare to say the Mullard 2492s both in terms of sound and noise (I love that the mullards take no warmup and have zero noise...) I've nooticed some great prices on NOS Teslas out there, but wasn't sure what to think of them. Stuff even older than the Mullards...
   
  Yeah the Lorenz tpe things (any really high end tubes) "scare" me...while It would be nice to hear the best, there's always the worry that afterward I'd be happy with nothing and unendingly seek the unattainable again


----------



## Lee Harvey

When I got my Lyr it came with the 6BZ7's and after two weeks I ordered the 6N1P's which I have been using for the past 6 months with great enjoyment. The 6N1P's were a small improvement over the GE 6BZ7's.  But after lurking around on this thread I decided to go look for some new tubes.  I came across a pair of  NOS RCA 6BQ7A's over on Ebay for $16.20 shipped.  They arrived in Tektronix, inc. boxes and labeled on the tubes as 157-0022-00.  The first couple of hours of use of the 6BQ7A's the tubes appeared to be able to be driven into distortion on some musical peaks but that cleared up.  Now with 25+ hours of use they are sounding fantastic when using my HD650's.  They make my D5000's a little tubbyer sounding and the soundstage is closed in somewhat.  But with the HD650's I couldn't be happier.  Compared to the 6N1P's the RCA's might have a little less bass slam but everything else is an improvement.  Soundstage width is about the same.  The highs, air, and depth is about the same.  Low level details are improved and the big thing is the midrange improvement.  Things like acoustic guitar, bass and electric are warmer with better detail.  Imaging is also improved.  A couple of other things are that with the RCA's the Lyr runs much cooler over the 6N1P's and I don't have to turn the volume nob up as far to get an acceptable volume level.  I cannot complain for the price I paid.  I also ordered some Cold War Russian military 6H1N's that are suppose to be the same as the 6N1P's.  They have a CCCP logo on them.  They were $10.00 shipped for 4 tubes.  I will give those a try in a couple of weeks or so after I have time to get to know the RCA's really well.


----------



## SeaHawk

After I got back from the weekend, the cause of death is now known...
   

   
  So, if you're not Mr. Scary and just wing tubes out the front door at random passing cars 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 what do you do with your old, tired, vacuum-less valves?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> After I got back from the weekend, the cause of death is now known...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





  Things like that shouldn't be posted on the internet.   At least not without warnings stating: "Warning:  This image includes graphic content not suitable all ages.  Viewer discretion is advised."   Showing this so freely could cause trauma for some viewers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And that is why I prefer keeping tube costs per-set below those crazy $200-400 prices.  Stuff happens to your Schiit.  Tube rolling is fun, within reasonable price points for the high risk of loss hobby.  
   
  I'm curious what you'll roll to now, how it compares, and what it'll set you back


----------



## Carlsan

(Sad face)
   
   
  All things must pass....
   
  All tubes must pass away...  
   
   
   
   
  [size=medium]_And it seems to me you lived your life_​[/size]
  [size=medium]_Like a audio tube in the wind_​[/size][size=medium]​[/size]
 [size=medium]_Never knowing who to cling to_​[/size][size=medium]​[/size]
 [size=medium]_When the rain set in_​[/size][size=medium]​[/size]
 [size=medium]_And I would have liked to have heard you_​[/size][size=medium]​[/size]
 [size=medium]_But I was just a kid_​[/size][size=medium]​[/size]
 [size=medium]_Your tube light burned out long before_​[/size][size=medium]​[/size]
 [size=medium]_Your lyr ever did_​[/size]
   
 ​  ​ Okay, sorry for the deep Schiit!​


----------



## SeaHawk

Thanks for bringing a smile to my face, guys, and the lyrics are brilliant, Carlsan! 
   
  Doing ok with '64 USN-CEP Amperex 7308s for the moment, but I really like how the Mullards tamed my Grados.  Looking at some fairly inexpensive 70's Mullard E88CC's to try to set me in which direction to go..
   
  One direction would be the CV2492/3s, but looking at the CV2492s on Ebay, their construction seems weird to me.  The micas seem smooth (rather than the pointed micas shown in my pic above) and more like Amperex or Sovtek to me than Mullard...
   
  Example of what looks "right" (but my God, the price): http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MULLARD-CV2492-E88CC-6922-CCa-ECC88-6DJ8-VERY-RARE-MILSPEC-2-/320910349208?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ab7bf5398
  
  Example of what looks "wrong": http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CV2492-MULLARD-GOLD-P-6DJ8-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-1-PC-/390424933548?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item5ae723b4ac
  (Though I know the second example is likely an '80s valve - symptom of out-sourcing?)...
   
  And don't you HATE the Ebay's that list every tube type that will fit the socket instead of what the tube actually is?  *I wanna slap someone silly when I see "Cca" in the description of Tesla and JJ tubes!*  Or anything not a Cca for that matter - makes searching all that much more frustrating!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

The cv2493s I got from upscale have smooth Micas like your second example and sound good. they are also half the price of your first example


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


>


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> After I got back from the weekend, the cause of death is now known...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Same thing happened to one of my tubes I had bought last month. Those were vintage Amperex Holland 7308 tubes relabelled by Gold Aero. Tragic...


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Same thing happened to one of my tubes I had bought last month. Those were vintage Amperex Holland 7308 tubes relabelled by Gold Aero. Tragic...


 
   
  Were they NOS or used? And where did you buy them?  (Just trying to get a feel for what kind of longevities to expect from what type of purchases etc as I begin my tube rolling journey.) 
   
  I do like some of the shops that grade them by quality... I lucked out with my TubeMonger purchase, everything's in good (enough) order, but next time around, if going for something more expensive I may try something from Upscale etc where I know what grade I'm getting in advance for a bit more money.


----------



## adydula

Spending lots of dollars on 'upscale' tubes is NO garantee that they will last longer...tubes are tubes and they are what they are.
  If handled carefully they should last thousands of hours, but under stress and turning on and off etc, it all takes its toll. If you put them in a circuit that is designed well and observe a few simple things they should last a long, long time.....but with tubes and all things HOT they will fail randomly at times, but this should not be the norm...
   
  Alex


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Spending lots of dollars on 'upscale' tubes is NO garantee that they will last longer...tubes are tubes and they are what they are.
> If handled carefully they should last thousands of hours, but under stress and turning on and off etc, it all takes its toll. If you put them in a circuit that is designed well and observe a few simple things they should last a long, long time.....but with tubes and all things HOT they will fail randomly at times, but this should not be the norm...
> 
> Alex


 
   
  All true.  When I mentioned buying the pre-tested tubes and the like and being sure of what you get, I meant in terms of noise/microphony, not in terms of longevity.   I lucked out with mine because they aren't noisy at all and only somewhat microphonic.  But a tested/binned system eliminates the trial & error of getting noisy tubes (noise is what started me rolling to begin with.) The test is a success.  
   
  It's good to hear that in more cases than not they'll last a while.  Obviously it's something of a high risk endeavor in terms of failure risk, but if lasting is more common than not, that's a good thing.  I do always try to leave them ON if I'm going to use them within the hour or so, and turn them off if not.  Seems practical enough.  Except the 6BZ7s.  Those things needed so long to warm up and calm down.  I'm not used to the better tubes with "turn on and go." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  What observations were you referring to, out of curiosity?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> Thanks for bringing a smile to my face, guys, and the lyrics are brilliant, Carlsan!
> 
> Doing ok with '64 USN-CEP Amperex 7308s for the moment, but I really like how the Mullards tamed my Grados.  Looking at some fairly inexpensive 70's Mullard E88CC's to try to set me in which direction to go..
> 
> ...


 
  Wow!!! $400 for a pair of Mullard CV2492....can you say criminal?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Wow!!! $400 for a pair of Mullard CV2492....can you say criminal?


 
  There do seem to be different versions of CV2492, some with halos versus dimples (older ones it seems) etc.  But I'm a week into tube rolling and even I know that's insane


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> There do seem to be different versions of CV2492, some with halos versus dimples (older ones it seems) etc.  But I'm a week into tube rolling and even I know that's insane


 
  Sure, all that may be true. But still not even my beloved CV2493's should be had at $400 (double the price) let alone CV2492's


----------



## eddiek997

I understand that once in a blue moon, someone gets a real bargain deal on fleabay but most of the time its a lottery.

 Take some advice folks, use a creditable source when buying tubes. Brent @ audiotubes.com is a genuine guy, tests and stands by every tube he sells. At these crazy prices, NOS must be new, not just old.


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> I understand that once in a blue moon, someone gets a real bargain deal on fleabay but most of the time its a lottery.
> 
> Take some advice folks, use a creditable source when buying tubes. Brent @ audiotubes.com is a genuine guy, tests and stands by every tube he sells. At these crazy prices, NOS must be new, not just old.


 
   
  Bought mine from audiotubes.com.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Bought mine from audiotubes.com.


 
  I'll bet you received a matched pair of genuine NOS tubes that are also guaranteed.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hey gang I wanted to bring a tube that I've been really enjoying recently to the threads attention. A few weeks back I got interested in the 6FQ7/6CG7 GE clear top, supposedly one of the best types of this tube. So I asked resident tube wizard mr.rogers if he had any experience with this tube, he hadn't but had a pair lying around the house (must have a huge inventory). Anyway everything he said about this tube was positive, which encouraged to pick some up. Here is what I found.

Open realistic sound stage, not the widest but really open an nice. Not super warm, it has a lushness to it, I hear it mostly in the low mid-mid area. Highs are there but not exaggerated. Ok the the bass low end extension is insane, probably the most notable sound quality of this tube in my opinion. If you like electronic music the GE clear top might be right up your alley. With my lcd2r1 this genre was probably the best ive heard it through my setup. I also used the clear tops with my k701s and found the added low end a plus in addition to the highs not being overly prevalent, worked well with them.

Things to be noted about this tube. It is taller than a E2CC88. Getter and getter flashing on the side of the tube. Rated 6.3v but gets very hot (pull out the socket savers if you have them). At under a 100 bucks a nos pair I consider them a steal. 

Just a few of my thoughts hopefully mr.rogers will chime in with some impressions too. Here are some pics I took with my phone.

http://www.head-fi.org/gallery/image/view/id/611336/album/288791
http://www.head-fi.org/gallery/image/view/id/611335/album/288791


----------



## Misterrogers

I second everything dailydose said - and I'll add that somewhere earlier in this thread another user suggested this class of tube but was thumped by my evil twin, MrScary 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (bad scary!) Turns out, this RCA Clear Top (go for the side/d getters if you can) is one hell of a tube. I'm also running these in my Minute amp and pimped CTH with fantastic results. I'm trying to find a volume source of these for ya'all, but really - they're readily available for a very good price. Can't add much to the sonic impressions above. Bass extension goes deep and remains very tight. It's the tone/character that I love about them. For the price, these are a MUST hear for Lyr users. Plus, it's kinda nice to be able to 'get a grip' on these.


----------



## sridhar3

Misterrogers is selling his Lyr?  Say it ain't so!
   
  Edit: Rumor hazzit Mjolnir's who he's leavin' Lyr forrrrrr.


----------



## IEMCrazy

So, living with the CV2492 for the past week still has me awe-struck as to what a tube can do.  I still have to live with it for more time before a sort of final impression on it.
   
  But I'm curious....what examples would one consider equal to the 70's 2492s, and what (other than 2493, Lorenz, CCa, etc) would be considered "better"? And what does "better" mean in the context of tubes from that point?  More detail, more extension, etc?
   
  (P.S.: Misterrogers, you're really going SS?  That just seems wrong... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## Lee Harvey

I couldn't wait a couple of weeks of listening to the RCA 6BQ7A's without trying out the NOS Russian 6H1N's.  They have about 6 hours on them now and work really well with my D5000's.  I tried them with the Sennheisers but they were a bit vailed and not very dynamic.  But the with the D5000's its another story.  They take the Denon's by reins and really sing.  With the Denon's the bass is very tight and deep with a lot of dynamics.  The midrange is good and clear, a little less sweet than the RCA/Sennheiser combo.  The highs are extended and detailed as much as a tube amp with these headphones with their rolled off high end can do.  If I lost a $200 tube I would be crying.  But looking around Ebay I think you can find some good deals.  I came these used Amperex ECC88's that the seller says test very good.  $27.00 shipped and should be here in about 3 weeks.  I will post an update after I receive them and have time to play.


----------



## Misterrogers

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Misterrogers is selling his Lyr?  Say it ain't so!
> 
> Edit: Rumor hazzit Mjolnir's who he's leavin' Lyr forrrrrr.


 





 I'm finding I have Mormon tendencies when it comes to audio gear.


----------



## netbususer

Does this mean all of those beautiful tubes of yours will hit the market as well?  I'm still dying to try to find some Lorenz tubes!  I sold my Valhalla today... the magic of the 6dj8 won me over with the CSP2+. I'm currently really enjoying using your old Telefunken PCC88's for L and R channels and using a 1961 Siemens E88CC in the driver position right now... Tube magic! As to the Halo getter CV2492's, I did have a pair very briefly before one shorted out on me within the first hour... With my CV2493 in the driver seat they sounded absolutely heavenly. It was actually my first taste of audio nirvana where I just closed my eyes and felt the smile steal my face.  (Haven't heard the dimple getter CV2492's for comparison...)


----------



## Trance_Gott

Is this the right one 6FQ7?
  http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-matched-RCA-Clear-Top-6FQ7-6CG7-tubes-GP-side-/360352697731?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53e6b1cd83


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

trance_gott said:


> Is this the right one 6FQ7?
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-matched-RCA-Clear-Top-6FQ7-6CG7-tubes-GP-side-/360352697731?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53e6b1cd83




Yep that's them


----------



## Carlsan

Saw a pair on US ebay for $50 with shipping, going to give them a go as well.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

I think you both will be very happy with what you hear, hope to get some impressions when they come in


----------



## Striation

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Yep that's them


 
  I snagged a pair for $35.00 NOS NIB on Ebay incl. shipping.  Prices seem to vary widely.  Very curious to hear these.
  Stri


----------



## mikek200

Yeah,I'm a little curious too...
  Got about 3 pairs all from different sellers on e-bay
  Prices are all over the map:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280838950356&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1123
   
  Brent Jesse has some,all at various prices,&, of course,his are matched & guarenteed....nice..
   
  Does anyone know,if some of these tubes from the 50's are any good.
  I was always under the assumption that ,the older they are,the better...don't really know for sure???
  Anyone...???


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Saw a pair on US ebay for $50 with shipping, going to give them a go as well.


 

 Overpaid again, LOL!
   
  Now to sit back and watch the price increase...


----------



## Lord Soth

[size=8pt]This is a *brief* comparative review of the Lorenz PCC88/E88CC/CCa tubes.[/size]
  [size=8pt]I intend to post a more comprehensive review over in the Tubes Asylum Forum in the very near future.[/size]
   
  [size=8pt]The 5 types of Lorenz (Stuttgart Germany) tubes in my possession are[/size]
   
*[size=8pt] Lorenz 2 Mica Version[/size]*
  [size=8pt](a) CCa[/size]
  [size=8pt](b) E88CC[/size]
  [size=8pt](c) PCC88[/size]
*[size=8pt]Lorenz 3 Mica Version[/size]*
  [size=8pt](a) E88CC[/size]
  [size=8pt](b) PCC88[/size]
   
  [size=8pt]I had been using the Lorenz PCC88 2 Mica version rather contentedly for many months now and had only swopped in my other Lorenz tubes from time to time for non-serious comparisons.[/size]
  [size=8pt]Recently, I decided to get really serious.[/size]
  [size=8pt]For a fair comparison, I managed to burn in all my Lorenz tubes for 100+ hrs.[/size]
  [size=8pt]They were all subjected to 24 hours burn in (heater only) and another round of >80 hours of audio burn in using burn-in audio CDs for e.g . the frybaby mp3.[/size]
   
  [size=8pt]The audio characteristics are as follows:-[/size]
   
*[size=8pt]Lorenz 2 Mica Version[/size]*
  [size=8pt]Since I was in a unique position to be able to compare all these Lorenz variants, one of my discoveries was that the 2 Mica tubes seem to be able to introduce Tube Euphony at certain audio frequencies. They remind me of the frequency equalizers found in some of my older digital hifi equipment.[/size]
  [size=8pt]If you ever played adventure role-playing games such as "The Bard's Tale" series or the recent "Dragon Age: Origins", one of the abilities of a Master Bard is the ability to enthrall audiences. The equivalent over here would be the ability to inject Tube Euphony.[/size]
   
*[size=8pt](a) CCa[/size]*[size=8pt] – Best (i.e. most euphoric) Treble or High Frequencies. Best for instrumental audio tracks especially string instruments or Wind instruments.[/size]
  [size=8pt]Best resolution and sonic clarity. [/size]
  [size=8pt]Best Instrument separation. Backup vocal singers are the most distinct from the lead singers.[/size]
  [size=8pt]Mids are slightly warmer than PCC88 version. Soundstage is smaller than PCC88. Mids are slightly more forward than the PCC88.[/size]
  [size=8pt]This tube is highly recommended for Classical music with plenty of string instruments. [/size]
  [size=8pt]On “The Story” by Brandi Carlile, this tube managed to evoke a strong emotional response in me when the guitar was played. So far, no other tube (Lorenz or otherwise) has ever managed to do so. If you want to add a dose of Tube “magic” to your treble, the Lorenz CCa is highly recommended.[/size]
   
*[size=8pt](b) E88CC[/size]*[size=8pt] – Best (i.e. most euphoric) Vocals or Mid Range. Best for music with emphasis on vocals. This tube reminds me of the Telefunken family of tubes which can impart special mid-range magic to any song. [/size]
  [size=8pt]2nd best resolution and sonic clarity. Mids are the warmest in the Lorenz family. Soundstage is smaller than PCC88. Mids are slightly more forward than the PCC88.[/size]
  [size=8pt]If you like music with emphasis on vocals, this is the tube for you.[/size]
  [size=8pt]If I did not own the 3 Mica Lorenz variants (details below), I would have considered this to be my personal favourite. This tube can make Madonna sing with emotion! Yes, her contemporary pop songs are catchy but this was the first time I felt so moved by her vocals. As for how magical this tube is, let’s just say that I would not hesitate to put out a “Do Not Disturb” sign when I am listening to Ella Fitzgerald with this tube.[/size]
   
*[size=8pt](c) PCC88[/size]*[size=8pt] – Best (i.e. most impactful) Percussive Drums or low end Bass. You can “feel” the greatest impact from this tube. [/size]
  [size=8pt]Best 3D effect with the largest soundstage of all 5 Lorenz tube variants. [/size]
  [size=8pt]This has a slight sonic “veil” as compared with the other 2 Mica variants.[/size]
  [size=8pt]This tube is most recommended for music whereby the bass is emphasised. This tube literally KICKS ASS! When listening to Japanese Taiko drums on my cans, there are times when I feel as though I am listening to real solid vibrationary drums from speakers.[/size]
   
*[size=8pt]Lorenz 3 Mica Version[/size]*
   
  [size=8pt]*(a) E88CC *– Balanced Tube with soundstage about the same size as the Lorenz 2 Mica E88CC and CCa. Is the 2nd best in all audio frequencies as compared with the 2 Mica Lorenz tubes. Mids are slightly more forward than the PCC88.[/size]
   
  [size=8pt]*(b) PCC88* - Balanced Tube with the smallest soundstage. Is the 2nd best in all audio frequencies as compared with the 2 Mica Lorenz tubes.[/size]
   
  [size=8pt]The best way to describe the 3 Mica Lorenz family tube would be “balanced”.[/size]
  [size=8pt]What I mean is that the 3 Mica Lorenz tubes are outstanding on their own with regard to the low end, the mid range and the top end treble frequencies.[/size]
  [size=8pt]However, they are 2nd best when compared with the Treble of the 2 Mica CCa, the midrange of the 2 Mica E88CC and the low end bass of the 2 Mica PCC88 which were mentioned above.[/size]
   
*[size=8pt]Conclusion [/size]*
  [size=8pt]I would not say that there is any one* BEST* Lorenz tube.[/size]
   
  [size=8pt]If your audio chain requires a tweak in the Treble, mid-range or Low End, then I would recommend the Lorenz 2 Mica CCa, E88CC or PCC88 respectively over the other Lorenz tubes.[/size]
   
  [size=8pt]If you prefer a balanced “workhorse” tube, then the Lorenz 3 Mica tubes are recommended over the 2 Mica variety.[/size]
   
  [size=8pt]I listen to an eclectic range of music and so my personal favourite tube is now the Lorenz 3 Mica E88CC. This seems to do everything very well. It may lose out to the 2 Mica Lorenz tubes individually but the Lorenz 3 Mica E88CC still manages to impart some (as in a slight amount of) tube euphony into the entire audio spectrum.[/size]
   
  [size=8pt]As for why I prefer the E88CC over the PCC88, the PCC88 has a slight sonic veil and also has the smallest soundstage of all the 5 tubes which I reviewed. The PCC88 has excellent instrument separation though and when this is combined with a smaller soundstage, the backup singers and main vocals are very distinct but seem to be slightly “squashed together”. [/size]
   
  [size=8pt]If you are not as perturbed by this audio quirk as I am, then the Lorenz PCC88 3 Mica version should be able to meet the needs of just about any other audiophile out there. [/size]


----------



## HK_sends

Wow, that was outstanding!  Thanks, Lord Soth!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

So, I go away for awhile and everyone finds a new tube type to plug in their Lyr...
   
  Who am I to resist...
   
  Got to try them out!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Wow, that was outstanding!  Thanks, Lord Soth!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Hi HK_sends,
   
  Thanks for your audio contribution over here too! 
   
  This is the first serious tube review I have ever posted and I really found it to be hard work!
  My own personal admiration for the Legendary "Joe" of "Joe's tube lore" has also increased after my own attempt at this kind of review.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Great write up thanks LS

Good to see you back HK


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hi HK_sends,
> 
> Thanks for your audio contribution over here too!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Reading such elaborate comparison and reviews of multiple tubes make me wonder, can the same be said for other systems and setups as well? Even two matched tubes of the same company, design, and production line may sound different, but leaving that issue aside, would different amps produce different results with tubes too? What I'm saying is, Joe's Tube Lore was written nearly ten years ago, I believe, and he obviously must have used a different preamp to test each tube and give its verdict one by one. For example if tube A had warmer sound with forward mids while tube B had wide soundstage and heavy bass in a particular system, will these differences still be heard in another system? Just curious.


----------



## mikek200

An in depth  and professional review.
  Many thanks,Lord Soth.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> An in depth  and professional review.
> Many thanks,Lord Soth.


 
   
  Agreed and thank you Lord Soth!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Great write up thanks LS
> Good to see you back HK


 
  Yeah, well, you know how it is...I'm sitting here in what I think is audio nirvana and someone shows up with a new toy (or tube in this case) to try. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I can't help but be drawn back in.  Now if Misterrogers can find a good source of tubes, we'll be set.
   
  And of course, thank you too...for being willing to try something "out of the box"!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Looking forward to more impressions.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Reading such elaborate comparison and reviews of multiple tubes make me wonder, can the same be said for other systems and setups as well? Even two matched tubes of the same company, design, and production line may sound different, but leaving that issue aside, would different amps produce different results with tubes too? What I'm saying is, Joe's Tube Lore was written nearly ten years ago, I believe, and he obviously must have used a different preamp to test each tube and give its verdict one by one. For example if tube A had warmer sound with forward mids while tube B had wide soundstage and heavy bass in a particular system, will these differences still be heard in another system? Just curious.


 
  Yes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Seriously, folks...
   
  From all the opinions I have read (and from my own experiences) about the characteristic sounds of tubes and how he described them on Joe's Tube Lore, his finding still hold up quite well.
I don't think I have run across any impressions (yet) that totally contradict what he wrote.
   
Cheers!




  -HK sends
   
  PS - What's wrong with this silly post editor?  I can't control the font changes and it adds colored highlights to things I copy and paste in.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

hk_sends said:


> Yeah, well, you know how it is...I'm sitting here in what I think is audio nirvana and someone shows up with a new toy (or tube in this case) to try. :wink_face:
> I can't help but be drawn back in.  Now if Misterrogers can find a good source of tubes, we'll be set.
> 
> And of course, thank you too...for being willing to try something "out of the box"!
> ...




I'm looking forward to an impression with those lcd3's of yours


----------



## MickeyVee

Been going nuts ever side I received my Lyr mid last week. . .
  - Hooked it up to my Matrix Mini-i DAC & ran the stock tubes - let it burn for about 12 hours - meh - unimpressive
  - Ran the Russian tubes - yuck!
  - Ran the Amperex Holland - a little better but still unimpressed
  - Brain storm - maybe the DAC is lacking - took my PS Audio DLIII out of my main system - let everything warm up - Nailed it! Impressive! Listened for a couple of days, really enjoying it and read everything I could about the BiFrost.
  - DLIII back in the main system and Matrix Mini-i back in - gone from meh to unlistenable after the DLIII/Lyr/Amperex combo. The DLIII is 3x deeper than the Lyr and looked really weird on my desk and my main system can't go long without a DAC.
  - Cr@p - can't afford the BiFrost right now - 'Honey, can't pay the painters because I need to spend $500 on a new DAC for my office' will not fly.
   
  Last Resort. . . 
  Have a pair of Lorenz Stuttgart that have been sitting in the box for 9 months.. hmmm.. Put the in and let the Lyr warm up.. Not Bad! Quite listenable right out of the box.. not as good as the DLIII but will save my marriage and have the house painted before I have to get the BiFrost.  Funny thing is that I can run the Lyr at 12-1 o'clock where wit the other, 10 @ max.
  This SOURCE > DAC > AMP/TUBE thing is driving me crazy but there is light at the end of the tunnel (probably the BiFrost & Lyr with Lorenz or Amperex) and I may be nearing my end game.
  Whew, saved by the tube. What do I do when the Lorenz die?


----------



## Misterrogers

Weep. Openly.
  Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Been going nuts ever side I received my Lyr mid last week. . .
> - Hooked it up to my Matrix Mini-i DAC & ran the stock tubes - let it burn for about 12 hours - meh - unimpressive
> - Ran the Russian tubes - yuck!
> - Ran the Amperex Holland - a little better but still unimpressed
> ...


----------



## netbususer

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Been going nuts ever side I received my Lyr mid last week. . .
> - Hooked it up to my Matrix Mini-i DAC & ran the stock tubes - let it burn for about 12 hours - meh - unimpressive
> - Ran the Russian tubes - yuck!
> - Ran the Amperex Holland - a little better but still unimpressed
> ...


 
  lol... Good to hear you found a good working system. I recently took my Bifrost and CSP2+ out of my office and moved them into my main listening room for PC audio and as a pre-amp... I'm looking at possibly getting a PS Audio DLIII but am curious as to how it compares to the bifrost... Is there anything else amazing at that price point? (Sub $800)


----------



## MickeyVee

LOL!!!
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Weep. Openly.


----------



## MickeyVee

That was my main question in doing my research on the BiFrost.  The BiFrost is detailed while the DLIII is warmer and may be a little coloured with less detail.  I really did like the DLIII with the Lyr.  If you're in the $800 range, why not wait to see what Schiit's GUNGNIR is going to be like.  If you want warn, lush and forgiving with an adequate amount of detail, I can recommend the DIII but as it hit me again, hard, it's all about the synergy.  The DLIII is perfect in my main system. 
   
  Really liking the Lorenz.. I'm sure it will get better as the tube get some time on them.
  Quote: 





netbususer said:


> lol... Good to hear you found a good working system. I recently took my Bifrost and CSP2+ out of my office and moved them into my main listening room for PC audio and as a pre-amp... I'm looking at possibly getting a PS Audio DLIII but am curious as to how it compares to the bifrost... Is there anything else amazing at that price point? (Sub $800)


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Been going nuts ever side I received my Lyr mid last week. . .
> - Hooked it up to my Matrix Mini-i DAC & ran the stock tubes - let it burn for about 12 hours - meh - unimpressive
> - Ran the Russian tubes - yuck!
> - Ran the Amperex Holland - a little better but still unimpressed
> ...


 

 The level that you have the Lyr set at is going to be dependent on the output of the Dac most Dac's that are solid state only put out 2.2v RMS which requires that the Lyr be at a higher level..
  what headphones are you using I did not see you list them? One of the reason's I use the DAC I do is so I can change the sound signature at will with a tube and or Opamps... I do not like Audiophile Dac's that are solid state only
  nor do I like the Bifrost one bit it sound nasily and nasty to me IMHO. I use higher end Firewire Dac's and my trust EE Minimax for listening.. If you do not want the Lorenz just message me I will buy them from you.. Also when you say Amperex Holland that is a whole array of tubes that all sound different...


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> [size=8pt]This is a *brief* comparative review of the Lorenz PCC88/E88CC/CCa tubes.[/size]
> [size=8pt]I intend to post a more comprehensive review over in the Tubes Asylum Forum in the very near future.[/size]
> 
> [size=8pt]The 5 types of Lorenz (Stuttgart Germany) tubes in my possession are[/size]
> ...


 

 I think the review is awesome and atleast you did mention the audio chain but lets not forget something .... THESE TUBES ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND!!!!!! so its all a waste of time for us.. again I have stated over and over a new user comes to this forum and asks "Where can I get the Lorenz" of any sort and you say to them "Ohh well first forma pact with Satan raise the dead make zombies to build tubes that no longer exist  nor do the materials exist to build them... So as much as I like your review Its not any help for a user looking for tubes...


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Reading such elaborate comparison and reviews of multiple tubes make me wonder, can the same be said for other systems and setups as well? Even two matched tubes of the same company, design, and production line may sound different, but leaving that issue aside, would different amps produce different results with tubes too? What I'm saying is, Joe's Tube Lore was written nearly ten years ago, I believe, and he obviously must have used a different preamp to test each tube and give its verdict one by one. For example if tube A had warmer sound with forward mids while tube B had wide soundstage and heavy bass in a particular system, will these differences still be heard in another system? Just curious.


 

 The answer is yes... Each amp is going to be different every change in your audio chain is gong to make a difference so yes any tubes review is best left at a type of sound you may get for a general comparison.. I can change a tube n my Dac and it changes everything so when you tear it all apart it even gets down to your signal you are sending to your DAC it even gets deeper what kind of power does your computer have are you sending flutuating current do you have a power conditioner on and on and on.... --  If its firewire then its all good.. If its Spdif then the quality of the signal gong to your Dac is dependent on the quality of your card same with TOS or ADAT if you are using a Realtek onboard coax out it wont sound nearly as good as  a high end RME interface or a E-Mu interface.. So yes every single bit of your chain changes everything.. People in general do not want to hear this they want to think of just DAC --> amp (possible tubes) ---> headphones sadly that is not the case...


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> [...]
> 
> The level that you have the Lyr set at is going to be dependent on the output of the Dac most Dac's that are solid state only put out 2.2v RMS which requires that the Lyr be at a higher level..
> what headphones are you using I did not see you list them? One of the reason's I use the DAC I do is so I can change the sound signature at will with a tube and or Opamps... I do not like Audiophile Dac's that are solid state only
> *nor do I like the Bifrost one bit it sound nasily and nasty to me* IMHO. I use higher end Firewire Dac's and my trust EE Minimax for listening.. If you do not want the Lorenz just message me I will buy them from you.. Also when you say Amperex Holland that is a whole array of tubes that all sound different...


 
   
  Didn't you say before that you haven't actually heard a Bifrost? I don't think I've ever read the Bifrost described as such. Certainly not by anyone who's had first hand experience. "Nasily" and "nasty" are the last words I would use to describe this DAC.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I think the review is awesome and atleast you did mention the audio chain but lets not forget something .... THESE TUBES ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND!!!!!! so its all a waste of time for us.. again I have stated over and over a new user comes to this forum and asks "Where can I get the Lorenz" of any sort and you say to them "Ohh well first forma pact with Satan raise the dead make zombies to build tubes that no longer exist  nor do the materials exist to build them... So as much as I like your review Its not any help for a user looking for tubes...


 
   
  Waste of time, you say?
   
  .... Now you are starting to hurt my feelings
   
  ..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 LOL
   
  How can they not be available?
  Just keep looking... either that or you have not looked hard enough.
   
  Here's a very strong hint, some of those Lorenz tubes I mentioned above are available for sale in EBAY *RIGHT NOW*!!!
  In life, if you really want something real bad, you have to work for it.... 
   
  Even if you miss your Ebay chance now, in the future, some Lorenz tubes will defintely pop up in Ebay or in the hands of other tube sellers (online or otherwise) out there.
   
  Here's another strong hint, you have better chances looking for Lorenz tubes in where else?
  GERMANY of course!
   
  BTW, I picked up another Lorenz PCC88 (3 Mica) as a spare from a European Tube dealer just 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Nerolucido

lord soth said:


> Waste of time, you say?
> 
> .... Now you are starting to hurt my feelings
> 
> ...




Sadly, there are actually some Lorenz PCC88 up for sale, but they're SEL, not Stuttgart.
Should I try harder?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





nerolucido said:


> Sadly, there are actually some Lorenz PCC88 up for sale, but they're SEL, not Stuttgart.
> Should I try harder?


 
  Dear Nerolucido,
   
  I shall PM you with the EBAY links.
_*Just for you! *_


----------



## Misterrogers

Lord Soth - thanks for the review, I very much enjoyed it, and it has helped me hone in on the subtle and (not so) differences between these tubes.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Didn't you say before that you haven't actually heard a Bifrost? I don't think I've ever read the Bifrost described as such. Certainly not by anyone who's had first hand experience. "Nasily" and "nasty" are the last words I would use to describe this DAC.


 
   
  +1, It's extremely neutral and detailed, but not nasily.  Bifrost + a neutral detailed amp like O2 = extremely analytical sound.   Still not nasily.  I don't think I'd want to try the duo with an analytical headphone like K702, ER4, HD800 etc.  I have a K702 around...I haven't put it on the SS yet.  And I don't really intend ever to try it.  Not even for science.  I don't think my ears could take it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But on a warm amp like Lyr with the right tubes, it should sound like...the tubes.
   
  Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Last Resort. . .
> Have a pair of Lorenz Stuttgart that have been sitting in the box for 9 months.. hmmm.. Put the in and let the Lyr warm up.. Not Bad! Quite listenable right out of the box.. not as good as the DLIII but will save my marriage and have the house painted before I have to get the BiFrost.  *Funny thing is that I can run the Lyr at 12-1 o'clock where wit the other, 10 @ max.*
> This SOURCE > DAC > AMP/TUBE thing is driving me crazy but there is light at the end of the tunnel (probably the BiFrost & Lyr with Lorenz or Amperex) and I may be nearing my end game.
> Whew, saved by the tube. What do I do when the Lorenz die?


 
   
  Glad you found a good combo.  I was kind of squeemish about the Matrix Mini-i as a DAC when you mentioned it, but since I've never tried one, I didn't say anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  At least you had some good gear around to be able to verify the DAC as the issue!  What's more humorous though is that your solution to not being able to afford a Bifrost is to pull out your Lorenz tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  12'o clock?  10 o'clock?  Am I the only person with a source that prevents Lyr from getting past 7 o'clock, maybe 8 o'clock at the best? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That's out of Bifrost.  What the heck is Squeezebox Touch doing to my digital signal when fixed at 100%?  That should make it bit perfect, but I still get the feeling that "fixed 100%" means "apply double digital gain boost!" rather than "bit perfect."  I seem to be getting a fraction of the volume out of this thing.  I get a little more play with the CV2492s than with the 6BZ7s, but not much more. 
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> The level that you have the Lyr set at is going to be dependent on the output of the Dac most Dac's that are solid state only put out 2.2v RMS which requires that the Lyr be at a higher level..
> what headphones are you using I did not see you list them?


 
   
  Apparently it's also dependent on the digital transport too


----------



## IEMCrazy

For all you tube rollers, how do you generally roll tubes?  Do you have different tubes for different genres/albums/headphones, do you put one in and live with it until it breaks, or put one in and switch between a few periodically to get a different sound?  That of course is a question for the non-serial rollers who roll weekly because it's just how they....roll.


----------



## Carlsan

How are the Lorenz PCC88 tubes made at the [size=medium]HERLEEN plant by philips? Any ideas?[/size]


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


iemcrazy said:


> For all you tube rollers, how do you generally roll tubes?  Do you have different tubes for different genres/albums/headphones, do you put one in and live with it until it breaks, or put one in and switch between a few periodically to get a different sound?  That of course is a question for the non-serial rollers who roll weekly because it's just how they....roll.


 
  First, you find a _BIG_ hill...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I find myself having different reasons to roll tubes.  I started out with the idea of using one set until it dies, then rolling.  However, after trying so many different types of tube "sounds", I now tend to roll in a set for a little while to enjoy it's particular sonic characteristics and then move to a different set for a change.
   
  I don't think there's a "right" or "wrong" philosophy about tube rolling.  It's all about what you like...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


carlsan said:


> How are the Lorenz PCC88 tubes made at the [size=medium]HERLEEN plant by philips? Any ideas?[/size]


 
  I haven't tried those but I would venture to say that the sound shouldn't be that much different than any other Philips Herleen made tube (i.e. Amprex, etc.).  Of course, I could be wrong...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Dear Nerolucido,
> 
> I shall PM you with the EBAY links.
> _*Just for you! *_


 
  And,if you do find the lorenz...at what price...$500.00-$600.00


----------



## MickeyVee

Already decided that the Matrix Mini-i is going to be relegated elsewhere.  Next up will be the BiFrost DAC.
  Lyr/Lorenz @ 12 after a couple of drinks.. ear were ringing but it sounded awesome! (maybe it was the Scotch) My ears were ringing afterwards.
  Normal listening level is around 8-9 o'clock with the HD650, one notch up with the HE400.
  Can wait to get my hands on the BiFrost.  The Matrix is really showing its limitations, especially soundstage wise and never mind it's other faults.
  Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Glad you found a good combo.  I was kind of squeemish about the Matrix Mini-i as a DAC when you mentioned it, but since I've never tried one, I didn't say anything
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> For all you tube rollers, how do you generally roll tubes?  Do you have different tubes for different genres/albums/headphones, do you put one in and live with it until it breaks, or put one in and switch between a few periodically to get a different sound?  That of course is a question for the non-serial rollers who roll weekly because it's just how they....roll.


 
   
  I have been switching out tubes every few days lately and DAC's and USB to Coax adapters.   Trying to find what combination has the best synergy with the D5000's or HD650's.  I have decided to put my M2Tech Hi-Face up for sale as I am finding its not working as well as some other things in my system.


----------



## telecaster

I don't roll tubes in Woo but in a different tube amp, and my rolling habits is getting worse and worse!! I like different flavor for just a change, also either the music calls for a certain type of tubes or the tubes call for a certain type of music it's not engraved in stone. It is just fun to roll tubes I guess!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Already decided that the Matrix Mini-i is going to be relegated elsewhere.  Next up will be the BiFrost DAC.
> Lyr/Lorenz @ 12 after a couple of drinks.. ear were ringing but it sounded awesome! (maybe it was the Scotch) My ears were ringing afterwards.
> Normal listening level is around 8-9 o'clock with the HD650, one notch up with the HE400.
> Can wait to get my hands on the BiFrost.  The Matrix is really showing its limitations, especially soundstage wise and never mind it's other faults.


 
   
  That sounds much better... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Still would seem high for my source, I'd love to know what magic Logitech is working in there, or maybe I just keep my volume lower than most.
   
  Bifrost isn't the biggest soundstage around, though some DACs artificially seem to extend soundstage.  I'd trust the tubes for the soundstaging (those Lorenz should be a dream there...) but the Bifrost is beautifully neutral and articulate.  Running it through the O2 and getting dead-neutral precision detail shows just how clean the Bifrost runs.  That's the best test to see what the incoming signal sounds like before the tubulation begins, or if I'm justt in an analytical mood 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> I have been switching out tubes every few days lately and DAC's and USB to Coax adapters.   Trying to find what combination has the best synergy with the D5000's or HD650's.  I have decided to put my M2Tech Hi-Face up for sale as I am finding its not working as well as some other things in my system.


 
   
  Interesting.  For me the Lyr in general has great HD650 synergy, regardless of the tubes.  They change it (for the better it seems), but I suspect no matter what good tube I stuck in there, the effect would be pleasing in different ways.  D5k for me is a different story. I actually like those on SS. I went that route after the 6BZ7s were just too noisy for it, and I hadn't realized other tubes are quieter (Rope tried to tell me.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) but I ended up liking the result of those on SS for some reason even though I typically am not an SS fan. 
   
  Quote: 





telecaster said:


> I don't roll tubes in Woo but in a different tube amp, and my rolling habits is getting worse and worse!! I like different flavor for just a change, also either the music calls for a certain type of tubes or the tubes call for a certain type of music it's not engraved in stone. It is just fun to roll tubes I guess!


 
   
  I can see myself doing that....except that I wouldn't want to subject the amp to frequent tube pulling.  But the temptation would be there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> First, you find a _BIG_ hill...
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LOL, no, I don't think I'll roll them down hills....I'll save that for Mr. Scary 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I can see myself going your route.  I can see a set of 2393's in my future, I'm hooked on Mullard's warm sound now.  But I can see adding something like Telefunken/CCa type tubes (not actual overpriced CCas mind you), or Amperex and switching every few months between them to get a different flavor.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Already decided that the Matrix Mini-i is going to be relegated elsewhere.  Next up will be the BiFrost DAC.
> Lyr/Lorenz @ 12 after a couple of drinks.. ear were ringing but it sounded awesome! (maybe it was the Scotch) My ears were ringing afterwards.
> Normal listening level is around 8-9 o'clock with the HD650, one notch up with the HE400.
> Can wait to get my hands on the BiFrost.  The Matrix is really showing its limitations, especially soundstage wise and never mind it's other faults.


 
   
  So you recommend Scotch with your tube rolling? I'll have to put aside my micro-brewery beers and give it a try.


----------



## Lee Harvey

What kind of source are you using?  Mac/PC/CD?  I have been a Windows guy for years but I switched to a MacBook with iTunes and Bit-Perfect and I feel that a big vail was lifted when switched.
   
   
  IEMCrazy said:
   
Interesting.  For me the Lyr in general has great HD650 synergy, regardless of the tubes.  They change it (for the better it seems), but I suspect no matter what good tube I stuck in there, the effect would be pleasing in different ways.  D5k for me is a different story. I actually like those on SS. I went that route after the 6BZ7s were just too noisy for it, and I hadn't realized other tubes are quieter (Rope tried to tell me.... 





 ) but I ended up liking the result of those on SS for some reason even though I typically am not an SS fan.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> So you recommend Scotch with your tube rolling? I'll have to put aside my micro-brewery beers and give it a try.


 
   
  I suspect the scotch creates a vast holographic soundstage, a 3D effect, but smooths over a lot of detail in the process


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> What kind of source are you using?  Mac/PC/CD?  I have been a Windows guy for years but I switched to a MacBook with iTunes and Bit-Perfect and I feel that a big vail was lifted when switched.


 
   
  Squeezebox Touch at present.  Before that was an SACD player and a Windows PC, but I'd learned long before I bought my HD650s to use ASIO drivers and ditch the kmixer


----------



## MickeyVee

My Favorite! Goes well with Enigma and Lyr/Lorenz 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Someday, it just may come down to: matched pair of Gold Lions or a new bottle?  Good thing tubes last longer than a good bottle of scotch.

  Quote: 





carlsan said:


> So you recommend Scotch with your tube rolling? I'll have to put aside my micro-brewery beers and give it a try.


----------



## Lee Harvey

iemcrazy said:


> Squeezebox Touch at present.  Before that was an SACD player and a Windows PC, but I'd learned long before I bought my HD650s to use ASIO drivers and ditch the kmixer





I have been using J. River Media Center with ASIO drivers on a Windows 7 64 bit i7core PC. I followed the method outlined on ComputerAudiophile making both FLAC and Wave copies of my CD's and storing them on an external USB drive. I have been in the IT business for nearly 20years. Intel hardware is Intel hardware. But when I hooked my drive to a 5 year old MacBook I found that the Mac sounded more real than the same exact files being played on a superior hardware wise Windows machine. Call me crazy and let the flame wars begin.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> I have been using J. River Media Center with ASIO drivers on a Windows 7 64 bit i7core PC. I followed the method outlined on ComputerAudiophile making both FLAC and Wave copies of my CD's and storing them on an external USB drive. I have been in the IT business for nearly 20years. Intel hardware is Intel hardware. But when I hooked my drive to a 5 year old MacBook I found that the Mac sounded more real than the same exact files being played on a superior hardware wise Windows machine. Call me crazy and let the flame wars begin.


 
   


 Sorry, guess it must depend on hardware, every pc I've ever built has sounded better than any pre-fab Mac that I've heard.


----------



## HK_sends

I use a PC and just recently found out how much better Foobar2000 sounds with the WASAPI plug-in (supposedly offering "bit perfect" output).  The music went from pretty good to "Oh Wow!".
  Color me impressed!
   
  My system now consists of a Dell XPS laptop (with Foobar WASAPI output) -> USB -> Schiit Bifrost -> Schiit Lyr -> LCD-3s
  I did have to change the output setting in Foobar but now, any time I plug in my Bifrost to my Dell, the output automatically configures.
   
  Pure audio nirvana dude!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I just roll tubes from time to time to change the sound quality.  As a matter of fact, I was surprisingly blown away by a set of Tungsram PCC88s in this setup, giving me the most organic sound that I had ever heard (I literally "heard the wood" in the violins and cellos of the piece I was listening to).
  Now I am playing with my other tubes to see how the sound changed from before.  Foobar 2000 WASAPI rules/rocks/owns!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

...And I just popped for a set of 6FQ7/6CG7 tubes.  I'll post my impressions after I get a chance to spend time with them.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> I have been using J. River Media Center with ASIO drivers on a Windows 7 64 bit i7core PC. I followed the method outlined on ComputerAudiophile making both FLAC and Wave copies of my CD's and storing them on an external USB drive. I have been in the IT business for nearly 20years. Intel hardware is Intel hardware. But when I hooked my drive to a 5 year old MacBook I found that the Mac sounded more real than the same exact files being played on a superior hardware wise Windows machine. Call me crazy and let the flame wars begin.


 
   
  There's a number of reasons that could be true.  Are you using the analog out from the sound card, using the sound card's S/PDIF out, or using an USB DAC?
   
  I wouldn't put much stock in a MacBook's internal sound card, but depending on PC configuration I can see how noise or cheap sound interfaces could be picking up crazy noise.  Even the USB bus could.  It could be dumb luck of the power supply being in a bad place, or the USB bus or sound card being in a noisy location.  It could be that the MacBook relays everything through the battery instead of pulling straight from the mains, leading to rectified power, which may be true of many laptops.  Or just keeping the main DC transformer external to the chassis.   Or J River could be doing something funny still (digital gain control?)  Endless possibilities, but at least you found a platform that's working for you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I use a PC and just recently found out how much better Foobar2000 sounds with the WASAPI plug-in (supposedly offering "bit perfect" output).  The music went from pretty good to "Oh Wow!".
> Color me impressed!
> 
> My system now consists of a Dell XPS laptop (with Foobar WASAPI output) -> USB -> Schiit Bifrost -> Schiit Lyr -> LCD-3s
> ...


 
   
  My EMU-0404 doesn't support WASAPI unfortunately, but ASIO is just fine.  The main thing is bypassing the windows kmixer which has a nasty habit of upsampling to 48khz.  Badly.  And also applying digital gain, leading, for Redbook to a common 14bit/48khz audio...painful stuff to listen to on hi-fi gear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I haven't been able to get Foobar to handle USB ASIO setups cleanly.  It seems to be a known issue.  You have to delete the interface and re-create it, re-map the R/L channels, and reset the new interface as the playback device each time you reboot or restart the DAC.  It only takes a few moments but it's darned annoying.  Thankfully I rarely use the PC setup anymore after getting the Squeezebox and a server to drive it, and my Bifrosts are S/PDIF-only since I don't need USB, or the hassle most of the time.  (When I do use the PC I'm mostly using the full size speakers with it anyway...my AVR is fed by the EMU-0404 for 2ch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )   My music library, especially after starting some "hi-res downloads" to replace the SACD/DVD-A collection that is tethered to the AVR, is fast approaching half a TB and beyond on its own.  It was time to move it off to a server 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  I thought 7V PCC88s were a big no-no for Lyr according to Jason (or so I'd read previously in the thread?)  If it works, they're quite affordable I may have to grab a set based on your results.  But I thought those were a bad idea?


----------



## Striation

>


 
  Quote: 





striation said:


> MrScary you said "I personally would not suggest the BiForst due to its increased treble".  That is the first I've ever heard of that.  Is that your own personal opinion or did it test out somewhere?
> Thanks, Stri.


 

 MrScary response Quote: "Its out their on reviews I have also tested but in all honesty man its so minute that it really doesnt matter I should have been more clear... In all honesty their such little difference with the newer DAC's that just put a bunch in a can and pick out a piece of paper with one and away you go..
  Now if you have a Dac that can be tailored to suit your sound which has tubes and Opamps then its different but all of these newer DAC's you are stuck with their sound signature.. so you then have to compensate with tubes or if you don't have a tube amp just settle for what it is...
  But on the bright side most newer Dac's all sound good so choose your poison"
   
   
  Call me confused.
  Stri


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Iemcrazy the Lyr is rated for 6.3v tubes that's why Jason didn't recommend the 7v pcc88. However with the autobiasing of the Lyr, you can't tell a difference. I use pcc88s as often as 6.3v types without issue


----------



## Striation

A thought about DACS.
   
  Digital to Analog Converter.  It's job is to take a digital stream and convert it to something we can listen to.  So before we can send it to our tubes, EQs, compressor limiters etc. I want an analog source that is sterile and unadulterated.  (This is a good thing.)  The way it comes out of the studio.  Then I can hit it with a tube amp and the likes to acquire a sound that I enjoy and can change or leave flat.  The point is if the DAC changes the sound signature right out of the gate we are locked into it and whatever gear we send it to then takes it even further away from the original sound signature.  In my world it doesn't make sense to change the original material so far upstream. IMHO
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Stri


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> There's a number of reasons that could be true.  Are you using the analog out from the sound card, using the sound card's S/PDIF out, or using an USB DAC?
> 
> I wouldn't put much stock in a MacBook's internal sound card, but depending on PC configuration I can see how noise or cheap sound interfaces could be picking up crazy noise.  Even the USB bus could.  It could be dumb luck of the power supply being in a bad place, or the USB bus or sound card being in a noisy location.  It could be that the MacBook relays everything through the battery instead of pulling straight from the mains, leading to rectified power, which may be true of many laptops.  Or just keeping the main DC transformer external to the chassis.   Or J River could be doing something funny still (digital gain control?)  Endless possibilities, but at least you found a platform that's working for you!
> 
> ...


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Iemcrazy the Lyr is rated for 6.3v tubes that's why Jason didn't recommend the 7v pcc88. However with the autobiasing of the Lyr, you can't tell a difference. I use pcc88s as often as 6.3v types without issue


 
   
  I'm a bit unfamiliar with the cause/effect of different voltage tubes.  I'd have thought shoving a 7V tube in a 6.3V bit of gear would lead to issues.  And if Jason's warning people away from it, it would seem like there's a reason not to.  Or is it just sound related?  What would the effect of a 7v tube be without autobiasing?
   
  Eg, should there be any risk of damage to the tube, the Lyr, or the headphone that just "happens" to not be causing trouble for those using them? Or is the only "risk" damage to SQ? (Yeah, I could just email Jason, but he's sick of hearing from me after a few months 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  Quote: 





lee harvey said:


>


 
   
  Hmm, USB exclusively, using some form of kernel driver bypassing the mixer.  I can't imagine a reason for a different sound between the two except maybe the filtration of the power via the battery or external power supply.  It could be less prone to noise over the USB in that configuration, so it may not be platform specific but just configuration difference.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> On the Mac I am using Bit-Perfect and iTunes.  I also have Decibel installed but the drivers for the V-Link make Decible unstable and it will play a few songs and then lock up.  I have spent much time with Decibel's tech support and they don't have a solution so I don't use it anymore.  The MacBook having a battery can have an effect on filtering the power within the unit and that might help improve the Mac's sound signature.


 
   
  I tend to agree with this. That is why the pc's I've built as a hobbyist are of a better quality than those sold by Dell or anyone else except for the more expensive high end gaming rigs. I always use high quality power supplies, motherboards, and other components for my builds. The power supply for one can certainly add noise to the sound, as can a cheap motherboard with cheap connectors. One easy way to tell the quality of a power supply is the weight, the heavier the better.
  That is one reason why I tend to shy away from laptops as a sound source. The parts are not be as good as what one can put into a desktop. Again the high end expensive gaming laptops can be an exception.
   
  Workplace pc's are another story, they can have some fairly cheap and inexpensive parts, all one has to do is open one up any Dell found in the workplace to confirm this. Obviously a workplace only cares that the computer run productivity apps and access the net with reasonable speed.
   
  I'm not sure if USB ASIO helps get around system noise or not, but it certainly does do wonders with computer sound.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

The autobiasing means that you dont have to worry about current adjustment the Lyr, so the 7v tubes should perform/sound like the 6.3vrecommended mini 9 pin tube. Without autobiasing the Pcc88 would be underpowered and likely not sound as good.
The Lorenz that alot of us have been using since last October are pcc88 and i haven't, nor have I heard of anyone having trouble with their tubes/Lyr/headphones due to the substitution.


----------



## jamato8

Auto biasing has nothing to do with the filament voltage. You bias the cathode on most preamps and headphone amps that use a input tube. The filament voltage feed will stay at whatever it is set at if regulated and will float some on other types depending upon the current demand of the filament. Operating at 5 to 15 percent below the voltage of the filament requirement will often extend the life of the tube.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

jamato8 said:


> Auto biasing has nothing to do with the filament voltage. You bias the cathode on most preamps and headphone amps that use a input tube. The filament voltage feed will stay at whatever it is set at if regulated and will float some on other types depending upon the current demand of the filament. Operating at 5 to 15 percent below the voltage of the filament requirement will often extend the life of the tube.




Thanks Jamato, I was thinking about Ohm's law that the amount of electric current through a metal conductor in a circuit is directly proportional to the voltage impressed across it.
So that the voltage would be affecting the current(autobiasing).


----------



## adydula

I thought the purpose of a filament was to heat up the cathode to allow for thermionic emission to occur? If this is the case and the filament voltage is spec'd at 7 volts vs 6.3 the the cathode would not get as warm/hot or 'excited' and have less electrons available to jump off to the plate....so whats this "really" mean??? ( I know the answer...but lets see the response's first.....hahaha!)..and remember the cathode is where all these secret rare earth metals or elements reside that are thought by some explain why NOS tubes sound better than modern day contemporary tubes???
   
  Alex


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Thanks Jamato, I was thinking about Ohm's law that the amount of electric current through a metal conductor in a circuit is directly proportional to the voltage impressed across it.
> So that the voltage would be affecting the current(autobiasing).


 
   
  All very interesting.  So the question is, does anyone know the reason Jason recommended against it?  I doubt he'd do so if it presented no issue, so is there anything not being mentioned?


----------



## Misterrogers

Actually, I can think of one very good reason that he'd be very conservative about what he supported - not wanting to incur additional support, or the impact on the Schiit rep. if users pushed the envelope with tube rolling and ended up damaging their amp. If I was the manufacturer, I'd only officially support the tubes I tested, which would only be the specific ones that I designed it for. My 2 cents.
  Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> All very interesting.  So the question is, does anyone know the reason Jason recommended against it?  I doubt he'd do so if it presented no issue, so is there anything not being mentioned?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> All very interesting.  So the question is, does anyone know the reason Jason recommended against it?  I doubt he'd do so if it presented no issue, so is there anything not being mentioned?


 
   
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Actually, I can think of one very good reason that he'd be very conservative about what he supported - not wanting to incur additional support, or the impact on the Schiit rep. if users pushed the envelope with tube rolling and ended up damaging their amp. If I was the manufacturer, I'd only officially support the tubes I tested, which would only be the specific ones that I designed it for. My 2 cents.


 
  I agree with Misterrogers in that Jason and Schiit designed the amp with a certain family of tubes in mind and only advocate those being installed.  It makes good business sense.  However, like the folks that overclock their computers,  the hardware is designed with some headroom (no pun...) and can be pushed safely if you stay within the boundry.  With the PCC88s, I seemed to recall that Jason said he felt the PCC88s wouldn't be pushed to their full potential (due to the undervolt) in the Lyr, but even the "limited" sound quality has exceeded many of the 6volt tubes.  I wonder if he would consider a 7volt Lyr option?  I wonder how much more "potential" the PCC88s would show?
   
  But there are a great many of us (me included) that have used the PCC88s with no problems whatsoever.  I even swap back and forth between the 6volt recommended tubes and the 7volt PCC88s on a fairly regular basis with no ill effects.
   
  Hope this helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

iemcrazy said:


> I'm a bit unfamiliar with the cause/effect of different voltage tubes.  I'd have thought shoving a 7V tube in a 6.3V bit of gear would lead to issues.  And if Jason's warning people away from it, it would seem like there's a reason not to.  Or is it just sound related?  What would the effect of a 7v tube be without autobiasing?
> 
> Eg, should there be any risk of damage to the tube, the Lyr, or the headphone that just "happens" to not be causing trouble for those using them? Or is the only "risk" damage to SQ? (Yeah, I could just email Jason, but he's sick of hearing from me after a few months
> 
> ...



 
 Gosh I seem to have to say this alot... The only reason Jason is saying no.. Is because he thinks that tubes like the PC88's that he has never tested would not sound as good as any of the ^dJB, 6922' variants etc.. Jamato made a comment see in the Guitar amp world we have to Bias our amp's when we change tubes it's tedious and dangerous as all hell if you touch the wrong thing as we are dealing with Capacitors that hold the voltage that is leathal.. big 6L6 tubes etc.. So in the case of the Lyr there is not reason he has to support not using the PCC88's example some of us overbias our tubes like I do on my amps to give a more organic sound we can really push them if we wish with reduced life span we get usually a year out of 6L6's a bit more out of EL34's... So no Jason has no reason any more than he did eons ago when he was against using anything but 6922's until Jamato and others tested the tubes then suddenly he is using the GE's as default... So the PCC88's are perfectly safe and some of the best sounding are PCC88's...


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I agree with Misterrogers in that Jason and Schiit designed the amp with a certain family of tubes in mind and only advocate those being installed.  It makes good business sense.  However, like the folks that overclock their computers,  the hardware is designed with some headroom (no pun...) and can be pushed safely if you stay within the boundry.  With the PCC88s, I seemed to recall that Jason said he felt the PCC88s wouldn't be pushed to their full potential (due to the undervolt) in the Lyr, but even the "limited" sound quality has exceeded many of the 6volt tubes.  I wonder if he would consider a 7volt Lyr option?  I wonder how much more "potential" the PCC88s would show?
> 
> But there are a great many of us (me included) that have used the PCC88s with no problems whatsoever.  I even swap back and forth between the 6volt recommended tubes and the 7volt PCC88s on a fairly regular basis with no ill effects.
> 
> ...



 
 Nonsense Jason has no reason at all to say this he is probably saying it becasuse he is looking at the majority of users that would go out buy some cheap set of PCC88's and they sound like pigsonafarm.. Us tube rollers know different so that would be the only reason.. Nothing wrong with under or over biasing tubes you just get maybe extended life or reduced...  Mr Rogers is too nice... love ya anyway man


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I use a PC and just recently found out how much better Foobar2000 sounds with the WASAPI plug-in (supposedly offering "bit perfect" output).  The music went from pretty good to "Oh Wow!".
> Color me impressed!
> 
> My system now consists of a Dell XPS laptop (with Foobar WASAPI output) -> USB -> Schiit Bifrost -> Schiit Lyr -> LCD-3s
> ...



 
 Ohhh bro you still using USB ohh dear.. get rid of that and your sonic sound will improve even more...


----------



## Misterrogers

Ahem - custom built Buffalo II DAC with a 'forest' of Belleson super regulators, feed via an exeU2I USB->I2S card, full galvanic isolation, sample rates up to 384k PCM/DSD; you can keep your stinkin SPDIF 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Listening to ripped SACD Iso's right now (DSF 1bit/2.8Mhz (DSD64)), and I doubt you'll ever finding a more resolving, jitter free, analog sound. All through USB.
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Ohhh bro you still using USB ohh dear.. get rid of that and your sonic sound will improve even more...


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> Nonsense Jason has no reason at all to say this he is probably saying it becasuse he is looking at the majority of users that would go out buy some cheap set of PCC88's and they sound like pigsonafarm..Us tube rollers know different so that would be the only reason.. Nothing wrong with under or over biasing tubes you just get maybe extended life or reduced... Mr Rogers is too nice... love ya anyway man



 
 And to add to this yes Jason does have a reason he is smart he is playing safe Business man if I was in his position I would do the same...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mrscary said:


> Ohhh bro you still using USB ohh dear.. get rid of that and your sonic sound will improve even more...


 
  Actually, the USB I am getting sounds better than the optical SPDIF I was using...
  I think at my level of sound equipment, the differences aren't as apparent.
   
  Plus, I'm pretty happy with what I use and that's the point of the exercise...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As far as the "nonsense" is concerned, I only call 'em as I read 'em and to (mis)quote Capt Kirk, "We're both extremists...reality is somewhere in-between".
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


mrscary said:


> And to add to this yes Jason does have a reason he is smart he is playing safe Business man if I was in his position I would do the same...


 
  I think Misterrogers and I both inferred this...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

MrScary, I noticed I'm only ten posts behind you.  I think back at all the posts we've made and wonder how little we actually said...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  All in good fun...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

misterrogers said:


> Ahem - custom built Buffalo II DAC with a 'forest' of Belleson super regulators, feed via an exeU2I USB->I2S card, full galvanic isolation, sample rates up to 384k PCM/DSD; you can keep your stinkin SPDIF :wink_face:  Listening to ripped SACD Iso's right now (DSF 1bit/2.8Mhz (DSD64)), and I doubt you'll ever finding a more resolving, jitter free, analog sound. All through USB.




Oh snap


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


dailydoseofdaly said:


> Oh snap


 
  He's not rubbing it in, is he? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  Oh wow, I guess I scared everybody off... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  ...crickets...*


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I agree with Misterrogers in that Jason and Schiit designed the amp with a certain family of tubes in mind and only advocate those being installed.  It makes good business sense.  However, like the folks that overclock their computers,  the hardware is designed with some headroom (no pun...) and can be pushed safely if you stay within the boundry.  With the PCC88s, I seemed to recall that Jason said he felt the PCC88s wouldn't be pushed to their full potential (due to the undervolt) in the Lyr, but even the "limited" sound quality has exceeded many of the 6volt tubes.  I wonder if he would consider a 7volt Lyr option?  I wonder how much more "potential" the PCC88s would show?
> 
> But there are a great many of us (me included) that have used the PCC88s with no problems whatsoever.  I even swap back and forth between the 6volt recommended tubes and the 7volt PCC88s on a fairly regular basis with no ill effects.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Gosh I seem to have to say this alot... The only reason Jason is saying no.. Is because he thinks that tubes like the PC88's that he has never tested would not sound as good as any of the ^dJB, 6922' variants etc..Jamato made a comment see in the Guitar amp world we have to Bias our amp's when we change tubes it's tedious and dangerous as all hell if you touch the wrong thing as we are dealing with Capacitors that hold the voltage that is leathal.. big 6L6 tubes etc.. So in the case of the Lyr there is not reason he has to support not using the PCC88's example some of us overbias our tubes like I do on my amps to give a more organic sound we can really push them if we wish with reduced life span we get usually a year out of 6L6's a bit more out of EL34's... So no Jason has no reason any more than he did eons ago when he was against using anything but 6922's until Jamato and others tested the tubes then suddenly he is using the GE's as default... So the PCC88's are perfectly safe and some of the best sounding are PCC88's...


 
   
  Thanks for the details, both.  If it were a matter of "could damage the amp, but everyone's been lucky so far" I wouldn't have any desire to try it.  But both of you seem to concur with my own theory given the electrical difference, that it doesn't seem there's any way to damage anything except maybe a poorly made tube.  It won't pull more power through the amp, it just won't receive all the power it wants on the heater and will "under-utilize" it.  So if were' just talking about stuff that won't sound right some of the time, but some models do, sounds good to me. Longer life is a side benefit as well possibly.
   
  Since you mentioned the GE's I looked it up.  6.5V heater.  So the stock tubes are already under-powered by -.2V, what's another -.5V?  Of course those are noisy buggers at times.  I wasn't sure if the whining was the Lyr or the tubes.  After putting the 2492's in and losing the squeal, I know it was the tubes  Maybe running out of spec makes noises more apparent or something, but it's worth a shot. 
   
  Jason (correctly) cautioned me against using Lyr with Denons because it's too noisy.  And indeed it was too noisy.  With the stock tubes.  Not so with the Mullards.  Of course I discovered this after I bought an SS amp for the Denons 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  No harm though, I prefer the Denons on the SS still.
   
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Ahem - custom built Buffalo II DAC with a 'forest' of Belleson super regulators, feed via an exeU2I USB->I2S card, full galvanic isolation, sample rates up to 384k PCM/DSD; you can keep your stinkin SPDIF
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ripped SACDs?   How does one rip SACDs? Not that I have a DAC that plays DSD, but I have an SACD collection, some of them non-hybrid, that I'd hate to lose when my last SACD player goes down.  One already has, it inconsistently recognizes discs, and starts stuttering before dropping out during playback.  I've recently been buying some HDTracks downloads, most are PCM interperetations of DSD discs, a few are genuine DVD-A rips, etc. 
   
  I still hate Sony for their mangling of the SACD format 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  All: Since the Tunsram PCC88s were mentioned...I noticed Tubemonger has them at $50 a set or so (and I did very well with my Mullards from them, though one set is crazy microphonic, it doesn't affect SQ), but Upscale has them for $90 a set for their Platinum and $80 a set for Gold.  Anyone with experience from both vendors have an opinion of if the price difference is worth it for the pre-tested guarantee of high performance rather than tube roulette? That's a big jump.  But pre-testing no doubt has solid merit. 
   
  Also, if going from Upscale, any opinions on the cryo treatment for $8? I know nothing is proven one way or another about cryo...whether it helps SQ or prolongs life. But $8 is affordable enough that it could be good "tube insurance", unless it poses a risk to damaging them?  Or it's so utterly unworth it, don't bother. 
   
  For those of you that tried Tungs PCC88...in your opinion how does it compare to a CV2942 (dimple getter?)  Either in terms of performance or SQ?


----------



## Misterrogers

There are a number of methods, but the prevalent one at this time involves using a PS3 with a specific firmware version (>=) and some open source software. Various sites on the web make these ripped ISO's available. They usually provide stereo and multichannel 88.2's too. Of course, as this would be illegal, this is all theoretical. Allegedly. If someone were to attempt such a thing... yea, that's the ticket. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





> Ripped SACDs?   How does one rip SACDs? Not that I have a DAC that plays DSD, but I have an SACD collection, some of them non-hybrid, that I'd hate to lose when my last SACD player goes down.  One already has, it inconsistently recognizes discs, and starts stuttering before dropping out during playback.  I've recently been buying some HDTracks downloads, most are PCM interperetations of DSD discs, a few are genuine DVD-A rips, etc.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Ripped SACDs?   How does one rip SACDs? Not that I have a DAC that plays DSD, but I have an SACD collection, some of them non-hybrid, that I'd hate to lose when my last SACD player goes down.  One already has, it inconsistently recognizes discs, and starts stuttering before dropping out during playback.  I've recently been buying some HDTracks downloads, most are PCM interperetations of DSD discs, a few are genuine DVD-A rips, etc.


 
   
  You can rip SACD's with a Sony Playstation 3 (not all versions of PS3 are capable of this feature, however). I tried ripping a few SACD's with my PS3 after reading a detailed instruction at www.computeraudiophile.com, but it was a real pain in the ass and not worth the effort IMO... unless you own a large collection of SACD's + a PS3 maybe? I'll provide you with the link below, although I personally don't recommend it even if you do have a PS3.
   
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/sacd-ripping-using-your-ps3-part-2-a-7495/
   
  Word of advice: You can actually purchase DSD files at some online stores instead of going through all the trouble of ripping SACD's using a PS3, but their music collection and availability is quite limited as of now. Also, only a few DAC's in the market can actually support DSD (e.g. dCS Debussy), most of which are very expensive gears which I doubt most Head-fi'ers won't be using, otherwise you'd have to convert your DSD files into PCM using certain playback softwares like Pure Music. And you know what? Supposedly, many people have actually reported that they had better results with DSD files converted into PCM than playing DSD files natively using the afore-mentioned uber-expensive DAC's! Some audio experts even claim that DSD is inherently a flawed format for some technical reasons.
   
  I'm not saying SACD's are bad - I'm just saying they weren't meant for computer audio, which was virtually nonexistent when SACD saw its light of day (did it ever?) until the concept of using computer as audio became popularized a few years ago.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





songmic said:


> You can rip SACD's with a Sony Playstation 3 (not all versions of PS3 are capable of this feature, however). I tried ripping a few SACD's with my PS3 after reading a detailed instruction at www.computeraudiophile.com, but it was a real pain in the ass and not worth the effort IMO... unless you own a large collection of SACD's + a PS3 maybe? I'll provide you with the link below, although I personally don't recommend it even if you do have a PS3.
> 
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/sacd-ripping-using-your-ps3-part-2-a-7495/
> 
> ...


 
   
  You guys lost me at "PS3 with a special firmware version."  My PS3 is rigged up as my BD player  (lots cheaper than an Oppo, almost as good for my needs!) and it's the later models that don't support SACD. 
   
  Perhaps I'll stick with HDTracks PCM rips 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I can't imagine the ineherant flaw of DSD, it was universally praised for its analog nature back in the day.  It's still gaining traction as a recording standard, AFAIK.  Just not as a playback standard.
   
  A few years ago?  Heck I've bee ripping FLAC of the important stuff for many years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Truthfully most of the time I love Redbook.   It's more than sufficient.  I rarely have issue with it.  The occasions where the "high res" version matters is mostly because Redbook is so tight against the wall in spec it leaves no room for error on the mastering/downsampling side.  Half the time the master is excellent and then they botch it when they downsample to 16/44.1.   A well downsampled high-res master would sound just lovely in Redbook. 
   
   
  I find it funny that in the tube thread, my SACD question was answered, in detail, and nobody bit on my tube/tube-vendor question in the same post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I love Head-Fi


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Truthfully most of the time I love Redbook.   It's more than sufficient.  I rarely have issue with it.  The occasions where the "high res" version matters is mostly because Redbook is so tight against the wall in spec it leaves no room for error on the mastering/downsampling side.  Half the time the master is excellent and then they botch it when they downsample to 16/44.1.   A well downsampled high-res master would sound just lovely in Redbook.


 
   
  Yeah, it's funny how people say "CD players are dead" nowadays after computer audio dominates the market, yet the Red Book-standard CD continues to live up to its name even after 30 years of their implementation. Since we still use CD's mainly for ripping and back-up, I believe the Red Book CD's will continue to flourish as long as there are people like us who expect a lot more than cheap quality mp3 these days. Whether SACD will be given a second chance in today's trend of audio, we'll have to see about that.
   
  Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I find it funny that in the tube thread, my SACD question was answered, in detail, and nobody bit on my tube/tube-vendor question in the same post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I second that.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Yeah, it's funny how people say "CD players are dead" nowadays after computer audio dominates the market, yet the Red Book-standard CD continues to live up to its name even after 30 years of their implementation. Since we still use CD's mainly for ripping and back-up, I believe the Red Book CD's will continue to flourish as long as there are people like us who expect a lot more than cheap quality mp3 these days. Whether SACD will be given a second chance in today's trend of audio, we'll have to see about that.


 
   
  I think Redbook is here to stay for quite a long while.  Of course MP3 in the common variant is even a Red book derivative in most cases (16/44.1 w/ half the bands chopped off).  And lets face it, the next trend in downloadable music in a few years as bandwidth & storage increase again will either be lossy MP3s of 24/192 audio, or Red book FLACs (finally) and sold for 50% more money as "new higher quality!" (Just like it was when we originally sold it on lacquer discs.)
   
  I still grab lossy MP3s from Amazon now and again when I want an out of print or import album selling for $20-30 while the MP3 album is $6.99.  But that's the only use I have for it at this point.  The price of eclectic tastes in music: Sometimes it's just hard to find the album you're searching for in any good quality format or price.
   
  But I still think 16/44.1 is more than sufficient barring poor mastering.  Anything higher is almost always overkill beyond where it avoids someone doing a poor downsample.  I suspect my own downsampling of a 24/96 album would sound pretty much like the 24/96 album, more moreso than the studio's clumsy downsampling of it.  There are some albums that do use the extended dynamic range though.  Or use less compression.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Good News Everyone!  My new Amperex slightly used tubes showed up in my mailbox 2 weeks early.  Must go plug them into the Lyr and get them warming up.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  They have Tektronix number on them of 157012500


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


iemcrazy said:


> All: Since the Tunsram PCC88s were mentioned...I noticed Tubemonger has them at $50 a set or so (and I did very well with my Mullards from them, though one set is crazy microphonic, it doesn't affect SQ), but Upscale has them for $90 a set for their Platinum and $80 a set for Gold.  Anyone with experience from both vendors have an opinion of if the price difference is worth it for the pre-tested guarantee of high performance rather than tube roulette? That's a big jump.  But pre-testing no doubt has solid merit.
> 
> Also, if going from Upscale, any opinions on the cryo treatment for $8? I know nothing is proven one way or another about cryo...whether it helps SQ or prolongs life. But $8 is affordable enough that it could be good "tube insurance", unless it poses a risk to damaging them?  Or it's so utterly unworth it, don't bother.
> 
> For those of you that tried Tungs PCC88...in your opinion how does it compare to a CV2942 (dimple getter?)  Either in terms of performance or SQ?


 
  You may not have been answered because no one who read the question has had that specific experience.  However, I'll do my best...I have gotten tubes from both places and I can say that Tubemonger tests them as well, but I think Upscale rates them on "level of goodness" whereby if the tubes test NOS or better, they are considered "platinum"; new to NOS, "gold"; etc...  There's nothing wrong with that method since you can buy tubes knowing they meet the criteria for tube life/performance.  Tubemonger doesn't offer that...they match tubes but don't guarantee you get the "highest results", just the best match.   It's a "peace of mind" thing and is really up to the buyer as to which to go with.  The downside to either of these methods is that the tube can go bad no matter how good it tests at the store.  But I have never had any problems from either vendor. 
   
  As for "cryo'd" tubes, opinions are all over the map on whether it makes a difference.  I have owned cryo'd tubes and was impressed with their sound, but didn't have a non-cryo'd set to compare them with.
  So, I really can't answer the question of cryo'd tubes being worth it.
   
  Hope this helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MickeyVee

Cool.. congrats! 
  Just put my Amerpex back in after running my DAC/Lyr for a few days straight with the cheap Russian tubes. Mine are new NOS and only have a few hours on them.
  I think my AMP/DAC issue was that I never used the line out so maybe it needed some break in.  Sounding better & better.
  Do tubes need break in time? If so, how long.. gonna let these run for a while.
  Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> Good News Everyone!  My new Amperex slightly used tubes showed up in my mailbox 2 weeks early.  Must go plug them into the Lyr and get them warming up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Cool.. congrats!
> Just put my Amerpex back in after running my DAC/Lyr for a few days straight with the cheap Russian tubes. Mine are new NOS and only have a few hours on them.
> I think my AMP/DAC issue was that I never used the line out so maybe it needed some break in.  Sounding better & better.
> *Do tubes need break in time? If so, how long.. gonna let these run for a while.*


 
   No question about it, depending on the tube, it could take as much as 100 hours for a tube to settle into its own.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> You may not have been answered because no one who read the question has had that specific experience.  However, I'll do my best...I have gotten tubes from both places and I can say that Tubemonger tests them as well, but I think Upscale rates them on "level of goodness" whereby if the tubes test NOS or better, they are considered "platinum"; new to NOS, "gold"; etc...  There's nothing wrong with that method since you can buy tubes knowing they meet the criteria for tube life/performance.  Tubemonger doesn't offer that...they match tubes but don't guarantee you get the "highest results", just the best match.   It's a "peace of mind" thing and is really up to the buyer as to which to go with.  The downside to either of these methods is that the tube can go bad no matter how good it tests at the store.  But I have never had any problems from either vendor.
> 
> As for "cryo'd" tubes, opinions are all over the map on whether it makes a difference.  I have owned cryo'd tubes and was impressed with their sound, but didn't have a non-cryo'd set to compare them with.
> ...


 
   
  I was just amused by the irony that in a tube thread more people had immediate detailed information of the questionable and infinitely difficult task of SACD ripping than on major tube venders.  I wasn't expressing annoyance at the tube question not being answered yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks for the more detailed info.  In your experience have you found better general performance/noise/microphony from rated vendors like Upscale, or more specifically have you found a hit-or-miss nature from unrated vendors, or you've never really had bad annoying tubes from any matched vendor?
   
  For these particular tubes the regular tubes are almost half the price, so it probably pays to go un-rated and buy an extra pair for the difference!
   
  BTW, since you're the culprit behind my PCC88 interest, you mentioned they were very organic.   Have you compared them to CV2492s? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (I realize some of the thread veterans here are more familiar with your rolling history...I only recently started tuning in...) 
   
   
  Also (for everyone else): One thing confuses me about CCa's.   From all I read they're the most neutral, detailed, etc tubes, which by description sounds very SS-like, especially in a hybrid amp.  Yet they're quietly revered.   From a tube like that, what "magic" is it they have over SS to be so popular?   That's one tube that at the going rates, I'm unlikely to actually try, so it's sort of an academic curiosity I had about them.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Also (for everyone else): One thing confuses me about CCa's.   From all I read they're the most neutral, detailed, etc tubes, which by description sounds very SS-like, especially in a hybrid amp.  Yet they're quietly revered.   From a tube like that, what "magic" is it they have over SS to be so popular?   That's one tube that at the going rates, I'm unlikely to actually try, so it's sort of an academic curiosity I had about them.
[/quote]

They are just premium built 6922 so they all have different sound signatures. The two I own s&h cca and the valvo cca sound way different. They don't sound solid state to me, the newly made tubes I have for instances the JJs and 6922eh sound almost SS by comparison.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Also (for everyone else): One thing confuses me about CCa's.   From all I read they're the most neutral, detailed, etc tubes, which by description sounds very SS-like, especially in a hybrid amp.  Yet they're quietly revered.   From a tube like that, what "magic" is it they have over SS to be so popular?   That's one tube that at the going rates, I'm unlikely to actually try, so it's sort of an academic curiosity I had about them.


 *They are just premium built 6922 so they all have different sound signatures. The two I own s&h cca and the valvo cca sound way different. They don't sound solid state to me, the newly made tubes I have for instances the JJs and 6922eh sound almost SS by comparison.*[/quote]

  Tubes are a confusing business.  The more I learn, the less I know


----------



## MickeyVee

x2! It's going to be months before I burn in my prime 3 sets of tubes (Lorenz, Amerex & GE NOS - Lorenz is winning so far) and then decide what I like best.  While I'm doing that, will be following and looking for other gems.  Multiple tube types, DAC's, source files, different quality recordings and headphones.  So many combinations, so little time.  It's all driving me crazy!
  Breathe. Enjoy the journey. Breathe.
  Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Tubes are a confusing business.  The more I learn, the less I know


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Also (for everyone else): One thing confuses me about CCa's.   From all I read they're the most neutral, detailed, etc tubes, which by description sounds very SS-like, especially in a hybrid amp.  Yet they're quietly revered.   From a tube like that, what "magic" is it they have over SS to be so popular?   That's one tube that at the going rates, I'm unlikely to actually try, so it's sort of an academic curiosity I had about them.


 They are just premium built* 6922 so they all have different sound signatures.* The two I own s&h cca and the valvo cca sound way different. They don't sound solid state to me, the newly made tubes I have for instances the JJs and 6922eh sound almost SS by comparison.[/quote]

   THIS!


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Also (for everyone else): One thing confuses me about CCa's.   From all I read they're the most neutral, detailed, etc tubes, which by description sounds very SS-like, especially in a hybrid amp.  Yet they're quietly revered.   From a tube like that, what "magic" is it they have over SS to be so popular?   That's one tube that at the going rates, I'm unlikely to actually try, so it's sort of an academic curiosity I had about them.


 They are just premium built 6922 so they all have different sound signatures. The two I own s&h cca and the valvo cca sound way different. They don't sound solid state to me, the newly made tubes I have for instances the JJs and 6922eh sound almost SS by comparison.[/quote]

  which one of the misinformed told you CCa's sound neutral hahaha thats hilarious as hell... they do not dude you are correct they have a very 3d dimensional sound warm and unlike any other tube int he proper signal chain they are amazing with closed headphones more so in my Opinion than open only because that 3d sound signature helps break the closed headphones barriers


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> x2! It's going to be months before I burn in my prime 3 sets of tubes (Lorenz, Amerex & GE NOS - Lorenz is winning so far) and then decide what I like best.  While I'm doing that, will be following and looking for other gems.  Multiple tube types, DAC's, source files, different quality recordings and headphones.  So many combinations, so little time.  It's all driving me crazy!
> Breathe. Enjoy the journey. Breathe.


 

 Yep it will everything you change will change eveyrthing else hahaha good luck been there done that still do all the time


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Ahem - custom built Buffalo II DAC with a 'forest' of Belleson super regulators, feed via an exeU2I USB->I2S card, full galvanic isolation, sample rates up to 384k PCM/DSD; you can keep your stinkin SPDIF
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  whaaa? DSD256   and USB still sucks ass
   
  Ever had two setups side by side and test them? its funny to watch USB fall on its face.. now with the newer incarnations of USB we will see..
   
  Now you think our human ears can hear this? the differences..
  Now you you really believe that music was sampled at that rate?
  hahaha we do it all the time we upsample stuff for the market its hilarious...


----------



## Misterrogers

Actually, yes. Prior to adopting the exaU2I card I did a fairly in-depth comparison between spdif out of my Mac Pro, an Audiophilleo2/PurePower combo and the exaU2I card. Both USB implementations (Audiophilleo2 & exaU2I) clearly (to my ears and 3 other audiophiles with 'ears' I trust) came out on top. Between the Audiophilleo (considered a very good converter) and the exaU2I, the exaU2I revealed more detail with greater dynamics. The Audiophilleo measures at 2.6ps RMS phase jitter (10 Hz to 100kHz), while the exaU2I measures < 10ps (both well below and accepted level of audible jitter).
   
  So yes I have - have you? Not a cheap USB 'jellybean' chip implementation, but one of these very well implemented solutions (including most XMOS async engines, etc.). If you haven't, and judging by your distain for USB you probably haven't, you should. What I'm talking about *IS* one of the newer incarnations. I believe there's a very good chance it'll blow your mind. Or at the very least, you'll find it a very acceptable alternative to SPDIF (which honestly, against these newer converters, has higher jitter, more noise and less bandwidth).
   
  Audiophilleo: http://www.audiophilleo.com/comparison.aspx
  exaU2I: http://www.exadevices.com/exaU2I/Overview.aspx
   
  Check them out my friend - I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
   
  And to be clear, I make/made no claims that the music was actually recorded at that rate. I will say though, with a highly resolving, low jitter transport - it's easier (to me/my ears) to tell which records are truly high sample/bit rate recordings and which are not.
   




   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> whaaa? DSD256   and USB still sucks ass
> 
> Ever had two setups side by side and test them? its funny to watch USB fall on its face.. now with the newer incarnations of USB we will see..
> 
> ...


----------



## WesternE

has anyone rolled the wima coupling caps for something better? Seems more logical to start there than spend $300 on a pair of tubes.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> So yes I have - have you? Not a cheap USB 'jellybean' chip implementation, but one of these very well implemented solutions (including most XMOS async engines, etc.). If you haven't, and judging by your distain for USB you probably haven't, you should. What I'm talking about *IS* one of the newer incarnations. I believe there's a very good chance it'll blow your mind. Or at the very least, you'll find it a very acceptable alternative to SPDIF (which honestly, against these newer converters, has higher jitter, more noise and less bandwidth).


 
   
  Agreed. People who claim that USB is inherently inferior to S/PDIF ain't heard USB these days. Despite the trend in computer audio, it's true most computers (including my PC and iMac) doesn't have coaxial SPDIF, which is why many digital audio companies nowadays compete for better USB implementations that can rival S/PDIF. I use a Stello U3 (USB-to-S/PDIF converter that uses XMOS async engine with capability up to 196/24) between my iMac and DAC, and I was surprised by its results when I first heard it. Hopefully we may even see DAC's that implement USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt sometime in the near future, but for now USB 2.0 is the real deal.


----------



## HK_sends

What they said... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## bleudeciel16

Just hooked up the Lyr with the 6BZ7 tubes.  (no burn in done yet)
   
  Good lord they sound great.  I was using my temporary Fiio E7 as my amp/dac.  I didn't think I would get much of an upgrade but man was I wrong.  The biggest thing I notice I gained was clarity at lower levels.  It felt like I had to crank the Fiio to get any good sound out of it.  The soundstage also feels wider now.  I can't wait for burn-in to complete.  I also have on hand the other two sets of tubes Schiit sells for the Lyr.  Excited to try those out as well.
   
  ASUS Xonar Essense SXT > (SPDIF Digital Coax) > Schiit Bifrost > Schiit Lyr (6BZ7 tubes) > HD650


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Man the more searching i do, it seems like every company is jumping on the USB converter bandwagon. It's there a thread im missing on here or else where that has good comparisons of the different ones?

Sorry about the untube related question


----------



## bleudeciel16

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Man the more searching i do, it seems like every company is jumping on the USB converter bandwagon. It's there a thread im missing on here or else where that has good comparisons of the different ones?
> Sorry about the untube related question


 
   
  I haven't been able to find solid info on this after lots of searching.  People have generally been saying that all three are very close, so that it shouldn't matter, and that USB is a lot better than it used to be.
   
  Schiit themselves said Coax > Optical > USB.  I still don't know to be honest, so I just went with their recommendation. (plus their USB addon is $100. screw that noise)
   
  Back on subject though, I'm sad that I have plans tonight, because I would rather stay home and get some time on my 650's. (will be at work all day)


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Agreed. People who claim that USB is inherently inferior to S/PDIF ain't heard USB these days. Despite the trend in computer audio, it's true most computers (including my PC and iMac) doesn't have coaxial SPDIF, which is why many digital audio companies nowadays compete for better USB implementations that can rival S/PDIF. I use a Stello U3 (USB-to-S/PDIF converter that uses XMOS async engine with capability up to 196/24) between my iMac and DAC, and I was surprised by its results when I first heard it. Hopefully we may even see DAC's that implement USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt sometime in the near future, but for now USB 2.0 is the real deal.


 
   
  No coax SPDIF?  I haven't had a PC since the 90's that didn't have either coax or optical S/PDIF, and usually both. 
   
  Of course if folks are talking about the S/PDIF implementation from onboard sound interfaces versus a high-end USB setup, that's understandable.  S/PDIF is only as good as the transmitter, and onboard is usually garbage.  On the other hand, onboard USB is often garbage too, both have interference out the wazoo. 
   
  A dedicated sound card from a good audio interface grade manufacturer feeding S/PDIF out should certainly sound great.  And on that note a dedicated USB interface would hopefully have less noise issues than an onboard USB port for using an external USB DAC as well. 
   
  I imagine they can both be equal given the proper conditions.  It's just that USB is less often given optimal conditions.  (I say that as someone that's been using an EMU-0404 USB on the PC setup for a while for various reasons unrelated to USB vs. S/PDIF SQ comparisons.)
   
  Quote: 





bleudeciel16 said:


> Just hooked up the Lyr with the 6BZ7 tubes.  (no burn in done yet)
> 
> Good lord they sound great.  I was using my temporary Fiio E7 as my amp/dac.  I didn't think I would get much of an upgrade but man was I wrong.  The biggest thing I notice I gained was clarity at lower levels.  It felt like I had to crank the Fiio to get any good sound out of it.  The soundstage also feels wider now.  I can't wait for burn-in to complete.  I also have on hand the other two sets of tubes Schiit sells for the Lyr.  Excited to try those out as well.
> 
> ASUS Xonar Essense SXT > (SPDIF Digital Coax) > Schiit Bifrost > Schiit Lyr (6BZ7 tubes) > HD650


 
   
  Hehe, yeah the GE's are pretty good tubes considering the price.  I could have lived with those forever in bliss had I not had recurring "tube whining" issues that forced me to look elsewhere. And of course, once you taste the good stuff...


----------



## bleudeciel16

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> No coax SPDIF?  I haven't had a PC since the 90's that didn't have either coax or optical S/PDIF, and usually both.
> 
> Of course if folks are talking about the S/PDIF implementation from onboard sound interfaces versus a high-end USB setup, that's understandable.  S/PDIF is only as good as the transmitter, and onboard is usually garbage.  On the other hand, onboard USB is often garbage too, both have interference out the wazoo.
> 
> ...


 
   
  any tube suggestions? (incase I run into similar issues, or incase I decide to stock up on extra tubes incase there's a tube-eating zombie apocalypse?)


----------



## MickeyVee

The zombie tube eating apocalypse has already started.. try to find a set of Lorenz Stuttgarts now at any reasonable price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





bleudeciel16 said:


> any tube suggestions? (incase I run into similar issues, or incase I decide to stock up on extra tubes incase there's a tube-eating zombie apocalypse?)


----------



## SeaHawk

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> No coax SPDIF?  I haven't had a PC since the 90's that didn't have either coax or optical S/PDIF, and usually both.


 
   
  Laptops, brother!  It's what I get to use at work, and that's where my rig is for music bliss to help numb the pain from powerpoint agony, so I'm stuck with USB for the time being...
   
  From a geek standpoint, I'm not sure what all the fuss over USB is, as it's merely data transfer - if you don't starve the buffer, the onus is on the receiving end rather than the transmit end to spew the individual bits in a timely fashion.
   
  Of course, drivers are an invented mechanism to screw this otherwise simple process.  Speaking of which, I may start a new thread for Bifrost USB driver settings (which report odd things back to Foobar2000 when trying to choose 24bit depth, etc - there's no way to verify if it worked or not


----------



## HK_sends

Matsush**a/National 6922s are pretty good all around and not overly expensive.
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
   
  I have a couple of sets and they are my general, everyday listening tube.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> Laptops, brother!  It's what I get to use at work, and that's where my rig is for music bliss to help numb the pain from powerpoint agony, so I'm stuck with USB for the time being...
> 
> From a geek standpoint, I'm not sure what all the fuss over USB is, as it's merely data transfer - if you don't starve the buffer, the onus is on the receiving end rather than the transmit end to spew the individual bits in a timely fashion.
> 
> *Of course, drivers are an invented mechanism to screw this otherwise simple process.  Speaking of which, I may start a new thread for Bifrost USB driver settings (which report odd things back to Foobar2000 when trying to choose 24bit depth, etc - there's no way to verify if it worked or not *


 
  I just installed the WASAPI plug-in and set the output to WASAPI and 24bit.  So far, I haven't had a problem.  What version of Foobar are you using?  I am using it on a Dell XPS laptop plugged into my Bifrost.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote:


seahawk said:


> Laptops, brother!  It's what I get to use at work, and that's where my rig is for music bliss to help numb the pain from powerpoint agony, so I'm stuck with USB for the time being...
> 
> From a geek standpoint, I'm not sure what all the fuss over USB is, as it's merely data transfer - if you don't starve the buffer, the onus is on the receiving end rather than the transmit end to spew the individual bits in a timely fashion.
> 
> Of course, drivers are an invented mechanism to screw this otherwise simple process.  Speaking of which, I may start a new thread for Bifrost USB driver settings (which report odd things back to Foobar2000 when trying to choose 24bit depth, etc - there's no way to verify if it worked or not


 
   
  You may want to look back a few months at the Bifrost thread in the source forums or the last day or two in the HD650 appreciation thread for some digital audio discussion.  Unfortunately I didn't get to finish that conversation in the thread since I'm not sure if it was that discussion or another one that got the thread locked for a day.  Short story: there *is* no buffer.  It just throws bits in series, fire and forget.  If it doesn't arrive in order, it's discarded.  If it arrives damaged, it's just left wrong.  Same for S/PDIF.  It doesn't transfer data in a data/error-control/buffered sense.  It's still just sending a PCM stream and happens to use a noise-infested USB cable for doing so with some different packet overhead.  It's not data transfer, it's still PCM streaming. Take coax S/PDIF, shove it in the wire with a +5V power line, don't shield it, feed it around the back of a PC power supply over normally poorly location interference prone USB jacks, and you've got USB-Audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It takes a darned good DAC interface to try to piecemeal anything sensible out of the mess that can sometimes arrive.   Generally USB and S/PDIF are doing the same thing.  USB is just a far more hostile environment in which to try to do it. 
   
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Matsush**a/National 6922s are pretty good all around and not overly expensive.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
> 
> ...


 
   
  HK: Do you know how those rate compared to real Mullard 6922s and compared to the PCC88 version of the National?  And what would you consider "better" than them (Lorenz and CCa aside 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)  I've been looking at those for a while.


----------



## WesternE

the only thing I don't love about this amp is 6DJ8 tubes. Years ago a swore off any design that used these because they are expensive, their are copies (fakes), the tone varies significantly by brand/construction, and used ones are prone to testing "strong" while being noisy. For the price when authentic quiet ones can be found in good shape I much prefer Amperex 60's 6DJ8, but finding a pair that is real and not noisey it difficult. Second choice at the time was Amperex '70's Orange PQ with dimpled getters. These weren't being copied at the time and a person had a resonable chance of finding an authentic noise free pair (Their design is intrinsically quieter than the 60's designs). Luckily I held onto a pair that I am using now in the Lyr. They sound perfect to me. Compared to 70's tesla, Sovteks, they just have better tone to my ears. Problem is I need a backup pair. One thing I have noticed is that ebay seems to have many more 70's Amperex 6DJ8's for sale at reasonable pricing than they did 5 years ago. Are there now fake orange PQ Amperex on the market? Also I am not letting go of a cap upgrade. The two red .47uf WiMA caps are the coupling caps in this design that block DC from the tube stage to the mosfet stage. Most of my better caps in that size are too big, surely someone has tried an upgrade that would fit ? Seriously believe the Wimas are holding the tube section of the amp back a bit, makes little sense IMHO to go all out on expensive german tubes till those caps are upgraded.


----------



## SeaHawk

Take a look: http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb3.shtml
   
  I'm by no means authoritative on the subject since I haven't done a USB implementation, but I am a network engineer and generally understand the layers of protocols at work.  If someone can point to a better reference than I can find that refutes me, I'm all ears.  I live for this sort of stuff! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  USB passes packets, so this bitstreaming/jitter/no buffer nonsense is right out.  I have USB-based data acquisition devices that run at much higher sampling rates and are very accurate that make most of the audio discussion a poor joke.  Stop it.. Please 
   
  There *must* be at least a buffer to hold a packet, likely many more than a single packet, otherwise the USB device in question would not be able to determine if the incoming data is addressed to it or another device on the bus.  There is certainly more than enough bandwidth for robust error-correction (including re-ordering packets, using sliding receive-window mechanisms that have been in TCP/IP since the late 80s).
   
  I can accept that the higher layer protocol that our devices use is poorly designed, but there's absolutely no reason the industry cannot address this moving forward (even if it requires proprietary drivers).  Wasn't this whole new USB 2.0 "Asynchronous" (meditate strongly on that word for a moment) mode supposed to resolve the buffer underrun issues?
   
  USB Audio class 1 isochronous mode is limited to 24bit/96KHz as I don't believe the standard embraces the improved bandwidth of USB 2.0.  However, it reserves bandwidth on the USB bus with a certain size window (a buffer!) that the host computer has to keep filled.  Luckily, Windows has a driver for this built-in and does a fairly decent job of it.  There can be buffer underrun conditions causing temporal distortion in the audio stream, the worst occurring when the bus clock is not perfectly synced with the DAC clock, causing bits to go missing every so often.  This isn't precisely jitter, however.  True jitter encountered in this mode is solely the result of a poorly engineered design (e.g./READ: it's actually quite prevalent since most USB DAC implementations use a synthesized clock which creates lots of jitter all on its own accord - but you get very little latency!).
   
  Keep in mind that this isochronous stream is being reassembled from the payload of packets - it is not a continuous stream of only audio bits falling out the end of your USB cable.
   
  USB Bulk mode transfer (excuse me.. "asynchronous" mode) doesn't guarantee bandwidth on the bus or latency for that matter, but generally with USB 2.0+ this isn't an issue unless you have other devices on the same bus.  Error correction and guaranteed delivery (meaning out-of-order packets aren't an issue) are easily available if they choose implements it (basically setting a flag to "yes" since it's already in the protocol).  Unfortunately I can't find an easy reference to how C-Media does it (there is no Windows driver, so the manufacturer must develop their own and can hide their "secret sauce"), but if they didn't, they took the lazy way out and would be receiving UPS boxes full of poo from me if I find out if it is true.
   
  ...and now we're WAAAAY off-topic... I looked but didn't really find an appropriate thread to move this to as of yet 
   
  As far as my foobar2000 issues - using whatever version is marked current/stable.  When I go into the ASIO configuration and see the device config, I click it, it opens and says 16 bit.  I select 24 bit and close it.  If I reopen it, it says 16 bit again, leaving me the impression that 1. the driver Schiit provided sucks (yes, they just redistribute the C-Media driver), 2. the driver doesn't seem to store the state of my selection correctly, at least when using Foobar2000 and 3. Neither it or I know if it's really putting out 16 or 24 bits.
   
  And now it's Friday evening, relaxing while eating dinner with the wife and contemplating which part of Scotland to visit for my single malt journey shortly


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

WE you should try it,would like to hear if your upgraded cap theory is right. You might be the first to try, I've read the whole thread and nothing has been mentioned about it thus far


----------



## IEMCrazy

Seahawk:  I won't discuss USB audio more thoroughly in this thread since I imagine Jude is sick of digital audio conversation from me in various threads by now (Or at least I'm not sure if that's what got the HD650 tthead locked for a day or not.) Short answer, you're somewhat right, but what you describe isn't entirely USB-Audio.  Packets is somewhat right, but is still more similar to S/PDIF than USB data transfers.  But that's for the sound scienc forum 
   
   
   
  My real purpose for reply was to help with th Foobar issue though.  It's not Schiit's driver.  It's a known (and documented) problem with Foobar's ASIO support.  EMU-0404 does the same thing for me.  Foobar just doesn't remember your ASIO driver settings and requires you to reconfigure the ASIO device on every startup.  It's dreadfully annoying, but it's a known bug that shows no signs of ever being ffixed.  They consider ASIO legacy now in favor of WSAPI and there's inimal support for ASIO.  Which is infuriating since ASIO is still the favored among recorrding/input devices.


----------



## Lee Harvey

westerne said:


> the only thing I don't love about this amp is 6DJ8 tubes. Years ago a swore off any design that used these because they are expensive, their are copies (fakes), the tone varies significantly by brand/construction, and used ones are prone to testing "strong" while being noisy. For the price when authentic quiet ones can be found in good shape I much prefer Amperex 60's 6DJ8, but finding a pair that is real and not noisey it difficult. Second choice at the time was Amperex '70's Orange PQ with dimpled getters. These weren't being copied at the time and a person had a resonable chance of finding an authentic noise free pair (Their design is intrinsically quieter than the 60's designs). Luckily I held onto a pair that I am using now in the Lyr. They sound perfect to me. Compared to 70's tesla, Sovteks, they just have better tone to my ears. Problem is I need a backup pair. One thing I have noticed is that ebay seems to have many more 70's Amperex 6DJ8's for sale at reasonable pricing than they did 5 years ago. Are there now fake orange PQ Amperex on the market? Also I am not letting go of a cap upgrade. The two red .47uf WiMA caps are the coupling caps in this design that block DC from the tube stage to the mosfet stage. Most of my better caps in that size are too big, surely someone has tried an upgrade that would fit ? Seriously believe the Wimas are holding the tube section of the amp back a bit, makes little sense IMHO to go all out on expensive german tubes till those caps are upgraded.




I was able to get a pair of SUS (slightly used stock) Amperex 6DJ8's off of EBay. I have been listening to them for the past couple of days. They are quiet and without noise. They sound great with a good soundstage, imaging, low level detail, ect. One thing I have noticed is they are a bit brighter sounding than the other tubes that I have. They have a bit of high end sparkle to them. The RCA 6BQ7A's I had in earlier were warmer with a softer high end. But I like both sets of tubes. The Amperex tubes only cost me about $27.00 including shipping. I think I am done shopping for tubes for a while. I have 5 different sets now to play with.


----------



## SeaHawk

Packets is packets... Lower layer protocols don't disappear in a cloud of smoke if you ignore them... but discussion shelved   From experience, the best way to make sure everyone's on the same page is some brews, a whiteboard, and more colors of markers than you really need, otherwise it's just walls of words





   
  On the other note --
   
  REALLY?  Every startup?  Meaning... I've sometimes been listening to less than optimal (for the interface  sound?
  I'd figure it'd be smart enough to make this decision on it's own, switching between 16 and 24 bits based on source..  I listen to mostly 16-bit sources, but do have a few ripped DVD-As and SACD's..  (Been holding off on the HDTracks stuff after feeling burned by the Nevermind re-release that was much worse than the original CD...)
   
  And yeah.. ASIO is very useful for the studio musician in me for recording and accompaniment more so for the low latency than being bitperfect.  Seems like an odd move for a penultimate music player, but now I have to search for the ultimate...
   
  Time to start looking at the other threads on this site...  I typically just check my few subscribed threads since they (especially this one) keep me busy enough!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

the Nevermind re-release that was much worse than the original CD...)


X2!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> the Nevermind re-release that was much worse than the original CD...)
> X2!


 
   
  Was the awful re-release just an HDTracks re-release that was worse or was the original DVD-a/SACD of it also worse?  I've heard a few bad things about HDTracks, but so far I've been pleased with my handful of recordings from them.  But I also remember some SACDs actually tested out as worse than the CD (real SACDs).  So I'm wondering if the one you're talking about was something HDTracks pawned off, or something the studio pawned off on them


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote:
   
   
  Packets may be packets, but UDP audio doesn't give me warm fuzzies either 
   
  Anyay, your foobar issue may be different than the traditional one...maybe they ARE finally working on it.  The old one was it would lose the ASIO driver entirely (it would appear as mapped but would no longer point to the right device for USB interfaces) So you'd just get "unable to open sound interface" errors or something like that.  If yours isn't losing the interface entirely, maybe you're keeping 24 bit too?


seahawk said:


> REALLY?  Every startup?  Meaning... I've sometimes been listening to less than optimal (for the interface  sound?
> I'd figure it'd be smart enough to make this decision on it's own, switching between 16 and 24 bits based on source..  I listen to mostly 16-bit sources, but do have a few ripped DVD-As and SACD's..  (Been holding off on the HDTracks stuff after feeling burned by the Nevermind re-release that was much worse than the original CD...)
> 
> And yeah.. ASIO is very useful for the studio musician in me for recording and accompaniment more so for the low latency than being bitperfect.  Seems like an odd move for a penultimate music player, but now I have to search for the ultimate...
> ...


----------



## SeaHawk

(UDP works great for real-time game chatting, e.g. TeamSpeak, Ventrilo, etc., though nothing near audiophile quality, but I digest  *belch*
   
  re: Nevermind re-release - it was a victim of the recording industry's "loudness wars" in that so much compression was used it lost almost all of the dynamics of the original CD and clipped in many places unlike the original CD.  I feel if this version was released instead of the original, it may have affected the way the album became a launch vehicle for grunge.
   
  The HDTracks version was faithful to what the recording industry gave them, but there was no warning that the new version was a steaming pile of dog doo...
   
  (Side note: I was invited and attended the SiriusXM Town Hall meeting for the 20th anniversary of the release of Nevermind in New York with Nirvana - namely Kirst Novoselic, Dave Grohl and Butch Vig with Jon Stewart inverviewing and got on air with Dave answering a question from me - as well as hanging and chatting during the commercial breaks.  They know me as "dude from Seattle" now... lol... If only I got a chance to listen to the new version before air, I'd ask a much difference question)...
   
  I walked out with a pic of us as well as this (still un-played, go figure why):

   
  And that's my story...  Yeah, well, whatever.. nevermind...


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Seahawk I have a bunch of great jazz albums from hdtracks but they are not known for their rock albums. I heard the rereleased version of Metalicas black album and it wasn't much better. They just rereleased STP's Core, I'm curious but I'm afraid it will be another nevermind remaster


----------



## jackiedh

Can we stick to tube rolling in the LYR Please--that is what this thread is.....
   
  Thanks
   
  Jack


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

jackiedh said:


> Can we stick to tube rolling in the LYR Please--that is what this thread is.....
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jack




Sorry, I'll focus up. Welcome btw


----------



## paradoxper

Need to ask: I'm looking for a pair of Lorenz. If ANYBODY out there wants to offer up a pair, I'd thank you kindly. (Oh and pay you)


----------



## SeaHawk

Tube rolling?  Oh yeah!
   
  Recently lost one in a part of '60 IEC Mullards (as tragically documented in this thread), and now one of my '64 USN-CEP Amperex 7308'sssss issss ssstarting to hissssss and ssstatic a bit.  I prefered the Mullards just slightly over the Amperex's tho the latter still sound really nice.
   
  Where to from here?  I wouldn't mind moving to a _slightly_ warmer sound, but want to keep the treble tame like the Mullards did and keep the bass extension.  Thoughts?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> Tube rolling?  Oh yeah!
> 
> Recently lost one in a part of '60 IEC Mullards (as tragically documented in this thread), and now one of my '64 USN-CEP Amperex 7308'sssss issss ssstarting to hissssss and ssstatic a bit.  I prefered the Mullards just slightly over the Amperex's tho the latter still sound really nice.
> 
> Where to from here?  I wouldn't mind moving to a _slightly_ warmer sound, but want to keep the treble tame like the Mullards did and keep the bass extension.  Thoughts?


 
  Subscribed


----------



## mikek200

Do you prefer the cv2492's or the 2493's?
  I am also partail to the Mullards,but,recently saw this:
   
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Mazda-6CG7-%7B47%7D-6FQ7.html
   
  I haven't ordered it yet,but I think I might..
  Just some food for thought.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Do you prefer the cv2492's or the 2493's?
> I am also partail to the Mullards,but,recently saw this:
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Mazda-6CG7-%7B47%7D-6FQ7.html
> ...


 
  Those are not compatible with the Lyr, no?


----------



## jackiedh

I did not mean to sound snippy but I have the LYR(their ASGAARD as well) and I am very interested in finding (tubes you can actually get your hands on)
  and trying different tubes to complement my Audeze LCD 2's & Senn HD 650's--
   
  Also without breaking the bank--
   
  I have read thru this long and very informative thread and it has really helped me out on this journey--
   
  Just bought I believe the last pair of Mullard E88CC CV2492 DIMPLE DISK PAIR TAN- from Mister Rogers which should be here today & I can't wait to try them out--
   
  Currently I have in the LYR the Matsu****a E88CC 6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling from Tubemonger and they are my favorite over all 3 of the Schiit tube offerings which I have....
   
  Great Day!!
   
  Jack


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> I did not mean to sound snippy but I have the LYR(their ASGAARD as well) and I am very interested in finding (tubes you can actually get your hands on)
> and trying different tubes to complement my Audeze LCD 2's & Senn HD 650's--
> 
> Also without breaking the bank--
> ...


 
  If you don't mind my asking, what did you pay for the Mullards? We're seeing some real tube inflation, so what would breaking the bank be?


----------



## jackiedh

$90.00 From Mister Rogers
   
  Jack


----------



## jackiedh

$80.00 for the MATSHU's from Tubemonger
   
  Jack


----------



## mikek200

"Those are not compatible with the Lyr, no?"
   
Yes ,they are,I have been using the 6CG7 & &6FQ7,for weeks now.,and I have the Lyr/lcd-2,hd650
I also checked with Upscale & they are compatible .
My thoughts were that this tube,which was made by Brimar,then relabeled as a Mazda...will give me the kind of warmth,,that the Mullards give me.
   
Here is Upscales number:
  909-931-9686 ,ask for Jerrod
Make sure you read the reviews for this tube
Hope this helps-Good Luck


----------



## paradoxper

Would doubling up that price be breaking the bank?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> "Those are not compatible with the Lyr, no?"
> 
> Yes ,they are,I have been using the 6CG7 & &6FQ7,for weeks now.,and I have the Lyr/lcd-2,hd650
> I also checked with Upscale & they are compatible .
> ...


 
  Ya learn something new everyday. Thank you, Mike. 
   
   
  You should buy those tubes and let me know how they are. I don't really wanna risk it, I've got other debts to pay off first.


----------



## jackiedh

Doubling the price probably not but relative to the $20.00 for the Schiit 6BZ7 which sounds pretty darn good to these old ears yes it would be...
   
  But I am new to tube amps and I am not sure what I am missing or not hearing well enough to know how much overall or quite a dramatic difference some of these higher priced difficult to find tubes would make-
   
  I am just looking to find a reasonably priced available tube that will play well with my LCD 2's and 650's and then enjoying that and stop[ searching for what might be better--
   
  I am also going the Balanced route with both the new BRYSTON SS Balanced Amp on order & also a Schiit MJOLNIR when available and looking forward to just enjoying the Music and not fussing with the next best Tube for my LYR---
   
  Find what I like the best in the LYR and then moving on to just listening to my Music Collection
   
  GREAT DAY!!!
   
  Jack


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> Doubling the price probably not but relative to the $20.00 for the Schiit 6BZ7 which sounds pretty darn good to these old ears yes it would be...
> 
> But I am new to tube amps and I am not sure what I am missing or not hearing well enough to know how much overall or quite a dramatic difference some of these higher priced difficult to find tubes would make-
> 
> ...


 
  Well, you can try some Gold Lions, Amperex, Mullard CV2493's, Nationals as stated above a few post. 
   
  I'd honestly say you're not missing out on that much or enough to really worry about it. If you're liking what you're hearing with the tubes you've rolled, that's awesome! 
   
  I personally feel the Mullards are the best quality tubes that don't break the bank I.e Siemens, Lorenz.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> Doubling the price probably not but relative to the $20.00 for the Schiit 6BZ7 which sounds pretty darn good to these old ears yes it would be...
> 
> But I am new to tube amps and I am not sure what I am missing or not hearing well enough to know how much overall or quite a dramatic difference some of these higher priced difficult to find tubes would make-
> 
> ...


 
   
  Try these for the Lyr...
  I bought rom this seller..great communication..even better on price
  See here:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/230804237427?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_1413
   
  Again,not a Lorenz,... tube,but a really nice tube.


----------



## jackiedh

I would like to try the Mullard CV 2493's but where to find them?
   
  Then that's it..
   
  Maybe...........
   
  Jack


----------



## jackiedh

Mail just came And I got the Mullard E88CC CV2492 DIMPLE DISK PAIR TAN from Mister Rogers--
   
  Plugged them in and about to give them a try with the LCD2's
   
  Jack


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mikek200 said:


> Do you prefer the cv2492's or the 2493's?
> I am also partail to the Mullards,but,recently saw this:
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Mazda-6CG7-%7B47%7D-6FQ7.html
> ...




Looks cool, wouldn't mind trying another 6fq7 since I like my GE clear tops so much, haven't rolled since the I got them 3wks ago


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> I would like to try the Mullard CV 2493's but where to find them?
> 
> Then that's it..
> 
> ...


 
  I hold my Mullard CV2493's in high regard against my Siemens and Lorenz. But I also may be the only one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  You can check Tubemonger/Upscaleaudio first. Then if they're not in stock. Start searching a bit. 
   
  Though Mike did buy a handful of pairs. He may have hogged 'em.


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> Mail just came And I got the Mullard E88CC CV2492 DIMPLE DISK PAIR TAN from Mister Rogers--
> 
> Plugged them in and about to give them a try with the LCD2's
> 
> Jack


 

 Okay not much time on them but they are used tubes-sound good so far but a little bit noisy with nothing playing--
   
  Jack


----------



## jackiedh

Actually I would call it a background hum--Don't have this with any of my other tubes--
   
  What could cause this??
   
  As I said tube newbie
   
  In Advance Thanks
   
  Jack


----------



## Misterrogers

So.... anyone have any impressions of the RCA Clear Tops to share? Enquiring minds and all....


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> So.... anyone have any impressions of the RCA Clear Tops to share? Enquiring minds and all....


 
  I will, but I am breaking them in and completely wrapped up in the sound right now.  When I can tear away from the headphones, I'll post something.
   
  BTW, are we just limiting ourselves to the clear tops with side getters?  Won't the top getter 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes work too?  Electro Harmonix is even selling new ones and I'm thinking about pushing the boundary a bit based on what I am hearing.
   
  I know Jason responded to my inquiry about these back in July of 2011 (see post page 85) and he said he didn't think these tubes would be optimal (pg. 86 Post #1282); but optimal or not, like the PCC88s in the Lyr, these sound good.
   
  So @ "sacd lover": You were right, they are a nice tube.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Totally understand. I've had these in my amp(s) exclusively for the past 3-4 weeks. Other versions of the 6CG7 will certainly work too. I've tried the Mazda's and the Gold Aero's (which were Amperex Holland I believe). Both were nice, but the Clear Top gets the slight edge. I'm going to hunt down some RCA black plate 0-getter's - they're suppose to be even better.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Jack: I'd be interesting in hearing your impression of the differences between the mullards and the Matsu.  I have he Mullard dimples and really like them, and I've been eyeing the Nationals as well.  Not many people seem to be able to give comparisons 
   
  Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> I did not mean to sound snippy but I have the LYR(their ASGAARD as well) and I am very interested in finding (tubes you can actually get your hands on)
> and trying different tubes to complement my Audeze LCD 2's & Senn HD 650's--
> 
> Also without breaking the bank--
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Totally understand. I've had these in my amp(s) exclusively for the past 3-4 weeks. Other versions of the 6CG7 will certainly work too. I've tried the Mazda's and the Gold Aero's (which were Amperex Holland I believe). Both were nice, but the Clear Top gets the slight edge. I'm going to hunt down some RCA black plate 0-getter's - they're suppose to be even better.


----------



## mikek200

I bought a few pairs {about 10?} on ebay,and I find them very good ..on the Lyr,with both the Lcd's & hd650's..I will let  the tech report to a more learned member.  {MrRogers...& MrScary.....anyone?}
   
  Prices on ebay are all over the map.
   
  Today ordered another pair from Brent Jesse.these are not the clear tops.....,I am curious about the Blackplates...I've heard,that some users believe that they give better SQ...also..I may be mistaken,but I think they were made in the mid 50's??..please correct me on this..
   
  With my chain,I have been listening to them ,on & off for about 2 weeks,and I'm very impressed SQ,& Prices.
   
  Of course now,prices will start to shoot up...


----------



## jackiedh

IE M Crazy-I will give it my best shot--
   
  Previously by far my favorite tubes were the Nationals with my LCD 2's-now having listened to the Mullards for about 5 hours-remember they are used so I have no idea how many hours there are on them and barring the slight background hum which I do not hear while playing music I find them to be more open, slightly wider soundstage, more bass impact and overall clearer & cleaner & smoother, with the vocals more up front in my head---seems to have brought my LCD2's to a different level where as my other tube rolling (all 3 ****t variations some other 6b7's & the Nationals) just seemed to alter things slightly....
   
  Overall a step up in the total aural experience for me....Liking them a whole lot with the LCD2's
   
  Just don't get what the hum is all about though!!
   
  Jack


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Jack: I'd be interesting in hearing your impression of the differences between the mullards and the Matsu.  I have he Mullard dimples and really like them, and I've been eyeing the Nationals as well.  Not many people seem to be able to give comparisons


 
  I'm sorry I didn't respond to you earlier when you asked me, I've been wrapped up in work and these 6CG7 tubes.  I had several dimpled-getter Mullard (E88CC and ECC88) tubes a long time ago but I really don't remember anything that stood out (other than they had a good overall sound, but that was two sets of headphones ago).  The Matsu tubes have been a great all-around tube with a smooth overall sound.  Some folks have said the top end is a little recessed but I find I it's just right for classic rock and some easy listening.  The bass is tight but not as strong as the PCC88s I've heard, yet I find myself going back to these for everyday listening.  They really don't excel in one area, just have a nice smooth overall sound.  I guess it's a testament to the Mullard tooling they used.  I find the Lorenz PCC88s three dimensional, other PCC88s have good extension in the low and top ends...and the 6CG7 tubes?  I'm still trying to put my impressions into words.
   
Cheers!




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> IE M Crazy-I will give it my best shot--
> 
> Previously by far my favorite tubes were the Nationals with my LCD 2's-now having listened to the Mullards for about 5 hours-remember they are used so I have no idea how many hours there are on them and barring the slight background hum which I do not hear while playing music I find them to be more open, slightly wider soundstage, more bass impact and overall clearer & cleaner & smoother, with the vocals more up front in my head---seems to have brought my LCD2's to a different level where as my other tube rolling (all 3 ****t variations some other 6b7's & the Nationals) just seemed to alter things slightly....
> 
> ...


 
  Maybe I have to revisit the Mullards... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jackiedh

I am definitely enjoying them so far--Jazz at The Pawn Shop never sounded so good--at least for me!!
   
  But I also don't have a huge tube collection or rolling experience..
   
  Jack


----------



## HK_sends

The problem for me was I used a couple of media players as sources before settling with Foobar on my laptop, then I added a Bifrost DAC.  Plus, I started out with the LCD-2 r.1, then r.2, then went with the LCD-3s.  Most all of that since I tried the Mullards.  I guess I do need to give them a try again...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jackiedh

My LCD 2's are rev2's--wish i could figure out this hum though....
   
  Jack


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Jack I've had tubes that hummed and the hum went away with burn in/time listening. I bought some tube dampers from herbie's audio which I feel like helped as well. Then again some old tubes just hum, as long as i can't hear it while music playing I just try and ignore it


----------



## jackiedh

How would you get tube dampers around tubes in a LYR?
   
  They sit so far down with so little room around them!!
   
  Jack


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Sorry yeah I have the socket savers from tubemonger in to give the tubes a boost


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> My LCD 2's are rev2's--wish i could figure out this hum though....
> 
> Jack


 
   
  The hum sounds like some form of microphonics.  I had a set of really nasty microphonic JJapanese 6BZ7s that started getting really noisy including but not limited to a hum.  A few days ago my Mullards started humming nastily.   I grabbed the tube glove and pushed down a little...it sems heat etc had wiggled the pins slightly out of the sicket, I could feel it reseat a little deeper and it's been fine since.  You may just want to try reseating them or, if you haven't yet, switch which one is right/left...maybe something just isn't agreeing iwth the socket as-is.  It could just be its nature, like Daily said too.
   
  The thing more annoying than hum is high pitched whining/ringing.  That's what got me to leave the 6BZ7 line to begin with.  
   
  Thanks for your insight on the Nationals vs mullards (you and HK), i may look away from the 6922 Nationals or the time being then, though the National PCC88scould be an option still.


----------



## HK_sends

I've been using the Tubemonger socket savers and Herbies Dampers for a good while and have had no humming problems.  I would definitely say they helped, but I can't guarantee they'll resolve your issues.
  Worth a try though...
   
  Cheers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Sorry yeah I have the socket savers from tubemonger in to give the tubes a boost


 

 How do you think the socket savers boost the tubes? just curious I mean I have had mine god over a year I dont think they boost mine.. at all.. What are they boosting the only thing that is good about them is taking out tubes I mean since I play guitar my finger tips are so callused that I just grab hot tubes and remove them I don't even wait for them to cool down but them being out of the case of the Lyr in theory they run a bit cooler so I guess maybe the cooler temperature may increase life span how much who knows... but boost any other way is tomtrickery


----------



## SeaHawk

I thought they boost your tubes as in make them disappear when you're not looking and sell them back to you again on ebay?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> IE M Crazy-I will give it my best shot--
> 
> Previously by far my favorite tubes were the Nationals with my LCD 2's-now having listened to the Mullards for about 5 hours-remember they are used so I have no idea how many hours there are on them and barring the slight background hum which I do not hear while playing music I find them to be more open, slightly wider soundstage, more bass impact and overall clearer & cleaner & smoother, with the vocals more up front in my head---seems to have brought my LCD2's to a different level where as my other tube rolling (all 3 ****t variations some other 6b7's & the Nationals) just seemed to alter things slightly....
> 
> ...


 

 The Mullards all of them in general are good tubes.. They are far beyond the National's the Mullards are known to recess a bit of the highs not alot just a tad.. They are typically warm sounding and all around good tubes as HK said.. I roll through them every once in a blue moon I have all of them.
  but I will probably sell some soon... with the noise you are hearing it can be alot of things... who did you get these Mullards from? sometimes in shipping tubes get rattled around and they will be noisty for a bit I doubt that is your case.. As it sounds like you have been playing them a while I have shipped tubes and had people say "Ohh god" one is noisy I tell them run music through them for 8 hours if that doesn't do it then you are probably stuck with it... However, let me give you the quirkiness of tubes... I have some Amperex something's that were nosy as hell and all I did was get some detoxit... Get out my trusty electronic cleaner clean the tube savers spray the hell out of the Lyr and put them back in... Still had the noise... so I thought they were a wash.. Well two days later I put them back in and now they have no noise.. So hahaha the variables are crazy.. Remember one thing with tubes of any kind they are odd beasts ... In larger tubes I have had brand new EL34's that one tube for some reason would just act nutz and one of my amp uses lets see 4 AX7's and 4 X EL34's so I almost sent them back I had gotten ready to bias the power tubes (EL34's) and that one tube was real dim etc for the hell of it I just took it out then put them all back in randomly suddenly its working fine and all of them are working fine.. So I take the amp apart go through the deadly Bias procedure and they are fine have been for about 6 months now.. So they are quirky.. Never seen to have probs with AX7's but knock on Glass I probably will but they are cheap so I don't care if they go or not... just some examples man of weirdness remember these things work in the analog world.. Based upon mechanical means.. Thats why eons ago they slowly starting going to solid state. As in general solid state is more stable and has fewer variables and last way longer..


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I bought a few pairs {about 10?} on ebay,and I find them very good ..on the Lyr,with both the Lcd's & hd650's..I will let  the tech report to a more learned member.  {MrRogers...& MrScary.....anyone?}
> 
> Prices on ebay are all over the map.
> 
> ...


 

 10 Pairs of what Mike sorry I have been busy have not had a chance to hang around dong alot session work and mixing and with my Day time job Im going nutz?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Well, you can try some Gold Lions, Amperex, Mullard CV2493's, Nationals as stated above a few post.
> 
> I'd honestly say you're not missing out on that much or enough to really worry about it. If you're liking what you're hearing with the tubes you've rolled, that's awesome!
> 
> I personally feel the Mullards are the best quality tubes that don't break the bank I.e Siemens, Lorenz.


 

 Don't forget the Tesla E88CC's you can pick these up at very good prices and they are very good tubes. They are highly regarded tubes and not expensive.  I would say this that the Tesla's are IMHO best for closed headphones and have awesome bass but it all depends on your signal chain  Ohh almost forgot if you do decide to grab some E88CC Tesla's only get the older 60's not the 70's


----------



## MrScary

Well a friend of mine wanted some inexpensive tubes but descent tubes and he has closed phones so he tried a bunch of mine that I lent him.. only the ones 100.00 or less
  so he really like the Amperex Large O getters.. So I went on a quest to find some cheap wasn't giving him mine I like them sometimes hahaha.. So I found a set for a steal
  so I order them from ebay the guy sends them and they are so jacked up that there is a funny color light in them hahah serious.. So I contact him yell well not yell but
  escalate to him how unhappy I am in a very very mean way... So he apologizes says to send the tubes back so I say "NO" I say you send me tubes first or I will reverse the charges
  on the card.. hahah me no play... Anway so he says "Well Im going to send you some extra tubes these are so great"  So he send's the replacements I slap them in the Lyr they are fine burn them in over night contact by buddy and just give them to him hes a good guy.. Anyway so I finally decided to see what these suprise tubes are so I open up the the tubes now this guy doesn't just wrap tubes I mean he basically had wire around them no joke first they were wrapped in some bizzarre mesh of white stuff then taped with duct tape.. Then put in a plastic bag then rubber bands were around them then he put this weird as heck metal thing around them then taped them again.. So it takes me seriously like 10 minutes to get them out.. And what do i see Toshiba tubes..
  So I think hmmmm.. So I put them in the Lyr let them warm up maybe 10 minutes then put on my LCD's first well what I hear is something like between a Russian 6N1p a Brimar that is on fire and
  some JJ's.. well that lasted about 2 songs...  so beware of suprises hahahaha... 
   
  ■─■


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well a friend of mine wanted some inexpensive tubes but descent tubes and he has closed phones so he tried a bunch of mine that I lent him.. only the ones 100.00 or less
> so he really like the Amperex Large O getters.. So I went on a quest to find some cheap wasn't giving him mine I like them sometimes hahaha.. So I found a set for a steal
> so I order them from ebay the guy sends them and they are so jacked up that there is a funny color light in them hahah serious.. So I contact him yell well not yell but
> escalate to him how unhappy I am in a very very mean way... So he apologizes says to send the tubes back so I say "NO" I say you send me tubes first or I will reverse the charges
> ...


 
  Wanna send me some free tubes...I...I am a good guy also.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> How do you think the socket savers boost the tubes? just curious I mean I have had mine god over a year I dont think they boost mine.. at all.. What are they boosting the only thing that is good about them is taking out tubes I mean since I play guitar my finger tips are so callused that I just grab hot tubes and remove them I don't even wait for them to cool down but them being out of the case of the Lyr in theory they run a bit cooler so I guess maybe the cooler temperature may increase life span how much who knows... but boost any other way is tomtrickery


 
  The idea of socket savers doesn't agree with me.  The idea of the tube sticking out so far means to me more chance of knocking something into them accidentally and breaking the tube, the amp, or both.  Plus ading mixed metals between the pins doesn't sound to me like they'd help SQ at all.  There were some pages a few eons ago I think on this thread where a miswired socket saver was frying nice tubes.  I use a tube glove so removing tubes is no problem at all as-is, and the SS sounds almost worse since you'd have to hold it down with a stick so it doesn't just pop out with the tube anyway.  
   
  But the worst that I've never been able to deduce is heat.  You said ti may run cooler which sounds like a good deal, but does it actually reduce heat?  Sure its away from the transformer and MOSFETS, but since the chassis is little more than a gigantic heat sink, wouldn't keeping the tubes closer to the sink actually pull heat away from them more than leaving them exposed in dead air?


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> The idea of socket savers doesn't agree with me.  The idea of the tube sticking out so far means to me more chance of knocking something into them accidentally and breaking the tube, the amp, or both.  Plus ading mixed metals between the pins doesn't sound to me like they'd help SQ at all.  There were some pages a few eons ago I think on this thread where a miswired socket saver was frying nice tubes.  I use a tube glove so removing tubes is no problem at all as-is, and the SS sounds almost worse since you'd have to hold it down with a stick so it doesn't just pop out with the tube anyway.
> 
> But the worst that I've never been able to deduce is heat.  You said ti may run cooler which sounds like a good deal, but does it actually reduce heat?  Sure its away from the transformer and MOSFETS, but since the chassis is little more than a gigantic heat sink, wouldn't keeping the tubes closer to the sink actually pull heat away from them more than leaving them exposed in dead air?


 
   
  Good point. I don't think Socket Savers degrade SQ, but it surely doesn't improve it either. I just use it to make tube rolling easier, and for the aesthetics of being able to see the tubes glow.
   
  By the way Tubemonger has a new stock of Socket Savers for sale, so for those of you who couldn't get one because they were sold out previously, now's your chance to go grab some. According to Tubemonger, the newer batch of Socket Savers are supposedly better in quality than the previously, because the old ones had been assembled by new hires with little experience.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> The idea of socket savers doesn't agree with me.  The idea of the tube sticking out so far means to me more chance of knocking something into them accidentally and breaking the tube, the amp, or both.  Plus ading mixed metals between the pins doesn't sound to me like they'd help SQ at all.  There were some pages a few eons ago I think on this thread where a miswired socket saver was frying nice tubes.  I use a tube glove so removing tubes is no problem at all as-is, and the SS sounds almost worse since you'd have to hold it down with a stick so it doesn't just pop out with the tube anyway.
> 
> But the worst that I've never been able to deduce is heat.  You said ti may run cooler which sounds like a good deal, but does it actually reduce heat?  Sure its away from the transformer and MOSFETS, but since the chassis is little more than a gigantic heat sink, wouldn't keeping the tubes closer to the sink actually pull heat away from them more than leaving them exposed in dead air?


 
  That may be a good point but I think most people here are careful with their prized possessions. Plus they do look much nicer when you're fully able to see the glow. ( I don't use these)
  I believe that instance was isolated, I have not heard of any other damages linked with using socket savers. (Wasn't there also incidents with triode flippers?)
   
  I used SS and didn't find it to reduce heat enough to a noticeable degree. Same thing applies when raising the Lyr with different feet. Plus
  tube amps are suppose to run hot, so I just let it do its thing.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> 10 Pairs of what Mike sorry I have been busy have not had a chance to hang around dong alot session work and mixing and with my Day time job Im going nutz?


 
  Of the 6CG7's,from a few different ebay sellers.
  As posted above ,got a pair of the blackplates from Brent Jesse
   
  Good to see you back posting !!!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> That may be a good point but I think most people here are careful with their prized possessions. Plus they do look much nicer when you're fully able to see the glow. ( I don't use these)
> I believe that instance was isolated, I have not heard of any other damages linked with using socket savers. (Wasn't there also incidents with triode flippers?)
> 
> I used SS and didn't find it to reduce heat enough to a noticeable degree. Same thing applies when raising the Lyr with different feet. Plus
> tube amps are suppose to run hot, so I just let it do its thing.


 
  Yah, we're all careful, but stuff happens.  I'm noot thinking much of swining 2x4s over it or anything, but headphones slip out of hands, or cables hook around a tube, or Mickey's sipping scotch and tube rolling and playing air guitar....stuff happens   Having the tube exposed so far out just seems like an un-needed risk since the Lyr is designed in a way that shields the tubes so well by default.  Obviously a Woo leaves them exposed by design, but if Schiit gave us a built in tube protector that still looks awesome, why not use it?  
   
  I second the idea o the tube glow though, that's the one thing that would be geat about it is seeing the tube label and glow in all its glory.  'd think heat-wise the idea of moving it away from other hot components but the idea of moving it away from the only available heat sink probably cancel each other out.There's less heat near the tube, but more of that heat sits in place unless you have a lot of airflow moving over them.  Cooling by airflow is always less efficient than cooling by heat-sink. 
   
  I lways get curious about them just for the aesthetic of it....but I end up never buying it for those reasons.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Good point. I don't think Socket Savers degrade SQ, but it surely doesn't improve it either. I just use it to make tube rolling easier, and for the aesthetics of being able to see the tubes glow.
> 
> By the way Tubemonger has a new stock of Socket Savers for sale, so for those of you who couldn't get one because they were sold out previously, now's your chance to go grab some. According to Tubemonger, the newer batch of Socket Savers are supposedly better in quality than the previously, because the old ones had been assembled by new hires with little experience.


 

 Ahh, that explains it. I ordered a set of Socket Savers from TubeMonger a couple of weeks ago, to see what the fuss was about. They were the cheaper ones with "cosmetic blemishes", $15 each. The second time I inserted a tube into one of the Savers, the center black section sort of collapsed and is now recessed down about 1/8", making the tubes uneven. I really don't think I was pushing too hard, as I always take my time to carefully insert the tubes. Other than that issue, I like them.
   
  Sounds like I need to find a pair of Socket Savers that haven't been assembled by new hires.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Yah, we're all careful, but stuff happens.  I'm noot thinking much of swining 2x4s over it or anything, but headphones slip out of hands, or cables hook around a tube, or Mickey's sipping scotch and tube rolling and playing air guitar....stuff happens   Having the tube exposed so far out just seems like an un-needed risk since the Lyr is designed in a way that shields the tubes so well by default.  Obviously a Woo leaves them exposed by design, but if Schiit gave us a built in tube protector that still looks awesome, why not use it?
> 
> I second the idea o the tube glow though, that's the one thing that would be geat about it is seeing the tube label and glow in all its glory.  'd think heat-wise the idea of moving it away from other hot components but the idea of moving it away from the only available heat sink probably cancel each other out.There's less heat near the tube, but more of that heat sits in place unless you have a lot of airflow moving over them.  Cooling by airflow is always less efficient than cooling by heat-sink.
> 
> I lways get curious about them just for the aesthetic of it....but I end up never buying it for those reasons.


 
  hahah Yea man, that is exactly what happens too!
   
  I used SS one time, I actually found them to be a pain, it's not that hard to pull the tubes out of it's original sockets. And I also have a weak heater. So my tubes don't 
  glow all gloriously. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You could easily solve this problem by just rolling in Lorenz, they get mildly warm at best.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Yah, we're all careful, but stuff happens.  I'm noot thinking much of swining 2x4s over it or anything, but headphones slip out of hands, or cables hook around a tube, or Mickey's sipping scotch and tube rolling and playing air guitar....stuff happens   Having the tube exposed so far out just seems like an un-needed risk since the Lyr is designed in a way that shields the tubes so well by default.  Obviously a Woo leaves them exposed by design, but if Schiit gave us a built in tube protector that still looks awesome, why not use it?
> 
> I second the idea o the tube glow though, that's the one thing that would be geat about it is seeing the tube label and glow in all its glory.  'd think heat-wise the idea of moving it away from other hot components but the idea of moving it away from the only available heat sink probably cancel each other out.There's less heat near the tube, but more of that heat sits in place unless you have a lot of airflow moving over them.  Cooling by airflow is always less efficient than cooling by heat-sink.
> 
> I lways get curious about them just for the aesthetic of it....but I end up never buying it for those reasons.


 
  I am not a big an of the socket savers either...could care less ,if they look cool,more concerned on how the tube sounds.
  I did however buy these:
    http://www.audiotubes.com/damper.htm
   
  I had my Lorenzes in the lyr,and when I went to install the ring...,slid all the way to the bottom of the Lyr
  Had one hell of a time to get it out too?
  So much for trying to look cool..
  Tired the Tubemongers version,and they seemed to work ok.but I only use them on the Lorenz,because it is short tube.
   
  A waist of money ..IMHO.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I am not a big an of the socket savers either...could care less ,if they look cool,more concerned on how the tube sounds.
> I did however buy these:
> http://www.audiotubes.com/damper.htm
> 
> ...


 
  LMAO!
  I'm soo buying those and getting them cryoed.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> LMAO!
> I'm soo buying those and getting them cryoed.


 
  I got a better idea....
  Cryoe  the bottle of Scotch,as mentioned above
  Gulp it down ,the freak out on the lights
  Now,thats .........cool.......and you will last forever.!!!
   
  Your a riot Cory...


----------



## MrScary

Socket savers are great man I can take burning hot tubes and just rip them out and I have in and out probably 1000 pulls and push's if not more. never had one problem. I don't care about saving the socket's as the sockets in the Lyr are rock solid I just don't want to get my tube glove to get out tubes i want to feel pain when I change tubes see I love pain I love hot tubes.. well wait I take that back I touched a 6l6 in my Messa Boogie amp the other day and ummm I have scar.. hahha... only reason I ever got them cause I flip tubes so quick with no cool down
  Homey don't care not for a headphone amp ... Now a Guitar amp I ain't touchin those suckers they will kill you in more than one way..
   that reminds me I have to replace some tubes in my old Fender fun fun more maual biasing sucks assssssses


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> I thought they boost your tubes as in make them disappear when you're not looking and sell them back to you again on ebay?


 
  Thats it SeaHawk I got it now thanks  hahaha


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Wanna send me some free tubes...I...I am a good guy also.


 
  Maybe I should run a fun lottery type thing ask a crazy as hell question about audio and give everyone a day to come up with the best answer and start giving all these things away I mean I'm never going to use all of these things... hahah I might do that but you know I like you Paradoxer I might just send you some free "Tubes" remember "tubes" these ones have this scary skull on them
  so tell me what tubes they are and they are yours


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Maybe I should run a fun lottery type thing ask a crazy as hell question about audio and give everyone a day to come up with the best answer and start giving all these things away I mean I'm never going to use all of these things... hahah I might do that but you know I like you Paradoxer I might just send you some free "Tubes" remember "tubes" these ones have this scary skull on them
> so tell me what tubes they are and they are yours


 
  Whoah! I didn't ask for no stinking contest! I want things for free! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Are the skulls rectifiers?
   
   
  Edit: You and your damn riddles! Why did I give into it.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I got a better idea....
> Cryoe  the bottle of Scotch,as mentioned above
> Gulp it down ,the freak out on the lights
> Now,thats .........cool.......and you will last forever.!!!
> ...


 
  Na, I am just gonna go do bath salts and eat human face....


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Whoah! I didn't ask for no stinking contest! I want things for free!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Easy,easy boys..lets not fight..
   
  Paradoxper,...,I'll  send you down a pair of my 6CG7's...FREE.......no,you cant have the blackplate version


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Easy,easy boys..lets not fight..
> 
> Paradoxper,...,I'll  send you down a pair of my 6CG7's...FREE.......no,you cant have the blackplate version


 
  I'm just teasing. Just send me down those pair to test. I am really wondering if anyone else could possibly
  solve Scary's riddle. I'm stumped.


----------



## HK_sends

The reason I use socket savers (it ain't to save the socket)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  PCC88s before

   
  The "stuff"

   
  PCC88s after

   
  PCC88 vs 6CG7 tube size

   
  6CG7 with damper but without socket saver

   
  ...nuff said! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - My current system


----------



## mikek200

HK,
    
  What is the other pair you have ...NOT the tubemongers,and,
  Are you able to bend them slightly so,they will not slide down the tube..they look interesting & do they really keep the tube cooler??.
  I could definetly use them is so,my desktop with amp,computer,dac,and wide panel NEC monitor gets pretty hot after a few hours...even withe the AC on high.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> HK,
> 
> What is the other pair you have ...NOT the tubemongers,and,
> Are you able to bend them slightly so,they will not slide down the tube..they look interesting & do they really keep the tube cooler??.
> I could definetly use them is so,my desktop with amp,computer,dac,and wide panel NEC monitor gets pretty hot after a few hours...even withe the AC on high.


 
  Not even big power tubes will throw the kind of heat those NEC IPS panels throw.  I don't think the tubes are at issue


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> hahah Yea man, that is exactly what happens too!
> 
> I used SS one time, I actually found them to be a pain, it's not that hard to pull the tubes out of it's original sockets. And I also have a weak heater. So my tubes don't
> glow all gloriously.
> ...


 
  Even though Keven at Upscale says you don't need to worry about finger oils on the glass, I still wouldn't want finger oils on the glass and wouldn't touch the tubes plain.  But with tube gloves or any other ripping surface the main sockets are simple.  Gold pin tubes are a real cinch, the 6BZ7s are a bit more annoying.
   
  I agree with the glow.  My Japaneze original 6BZ7s had almost no glow.  Changed to the US 6BZ7s, and got the bright vivid glow I always dreamed of.   Moved to the mullards and was dissappointed by the pansy little heater glow.   LIstened to them, and stopped caring.  Quickly.


----------



## SeaHawk

Punk rock!


----------



## MickeyVee

A friend of mine is a tube fiend and he strongly recommended that I get some contact cleaner or really fine steel wool to clean the pins.
  Any opinions?


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Not even big power tubes will throw the kind of heat those NEC IPS panels throw.  I don't think the tubes are at issue


 
  Really-thank you IEM..
   
  I dont expect to get anything to cool my monitor down,but maybe a slight improvement can be had, using the other type of tube cooler shown in HK's pictures..the Lry/bifrost is sitting directly in front of my monitor
  If some reduction of heat is possible,I will use them
  I'm trying to avoid the brass coolers from Brent Jesse, possibly causing damage to my tubes,or the inside of the Lyr.
   
  HK-do you happen to have a link??
   
   
   
  Thanks
  Mike


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I agree with the glow.  My Japaneze original 6BZ7s had almost no glow.  Changed to the US 6BZ7s, and got the bright vivid glow I always dreamed of.   Moved to the mullards and was dissappointed by the pansy little heater glow.   LIstened to them, and stopped caring.  Quickly.


 
  Well, it's not the tubes for me. It's the Lyr. My CCa's and multiple Lorenz don't glow "very" bright.
  But hell, they sound amazing. I guess the heaters just vary from Lyr to Lyr. OR so Jason tells me.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Really-thank you IEM..
> 
> I dont expect to get anything to cool my monitor down,but maybe a slight improvement can be had, using the other type of tube cooler shown in HK's pictures..the Lry/bifrost is sitting directly in front of my monitor
> If some reduction of heat is possible,I will use them
> ...


 
  These work well.
   
  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm


----------



## mikek200

Yes,I did a google & found that link..
  will give them a try...
   
  Thank You ,Sir.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Yes,I did a google & found that link..
> will give them a try...
> 
> Thank You ,Sir.


 
  Also pretty sure that's what HK uses. Not brass but titanium. I really liked using them, until I didn't. haaha


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

When my lyr was vibrating/humming alot I went crazy at herbie's and got the feet, tube dampers, and dampers for the ICs and power cord. Don't think it sounds any different but it does hum loudly anymore


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> HK,
> 
> What is the other pair you have ...NOT the tubemongers,and,
> Are you able to bend them slightly so,they will not slide down the tube..they look interesting & do they really keep the tube cooler??.
> I could definetly use them is so,my desktop with amp,computer,dac,and wide panel NEC monitor gets pretty hot after a few hours...even withe the AC on high.


 
  Sorry for the delay in replying, I was out running errands.  Those are *[size=medium]UltraSonic Rx-9 Tube Dampers from Herbies Audio.[/size]*
   
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm
   
  They're a tad expensive but (to me) well worth it.  The wire is supposed to be titanium and I will tell you, it is tough to bend but usually not necessary because the teflon (?) pad with the o-ring will hold firmly enough against your tube.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - They won't cool the tube (but they don't block circulation much either).  The are for damping microphonics, vibration, and noise.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> A friend of mine is a tube fiend and he strongly recommended that I get some contact cleaner or really fine steel wool to clean the pins.
> Any opinions?


 
  I asked that very question to the folks at Tubemonger.  They suggested not using steel wool because of any metallic residue that may fall into the sockets.  I have used contact cleaner and it works pretty good.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Sorry for the delay in replying, I was out running errands.  Those are *[size=medium]UltraSonic Rx-9 Tube Dampers from Herbies Audio.[/size]*
> 
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm
> 
> ...


 
  HK-tnx for your reply,
   
  Wasn't 100% sure as to which ones to order...now I know...


----------



## songmic

I'm willing to put up my Herbie's tube dampers (2) and Tenderfeet (4) for sale. PM me if interested.

Also, I'm selling a matched pair of Matsu****a National 6922 for $50 (originally from Tubemonger at $80), so please PM if interested.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Well, it's not the tubes for me. It's the Lyr. My CCa's and multiple Lorenz don't glow "very" bright.
> But hell, they sound amazing. I guess the heaters just vary from Lyr to Lyr. OR so Jason tells me.


 
  Maybe it's the Lyr's heater voltage (but then why would they be cautious about tubes with different voltages?  ), but most of it is tubes.  The 6BZ7 from Japan barely glowed at all.  By contrast the USA 6BZ7s glowed like  Chernobyl at sunrise.  The Mullard 2492s glow as little as or less than the Japanese GEs.   Maybe Lyrs vary but mostly I think it's just the lements on various tube models.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Sorry for the delay in replying, I was out running errands.  Those are *[size=medium]UltraSonic Rx-9 Tube Dampers from Herbies Audio.[/size]*
> 
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm
> 
> ...


 
  Nifty stufff, and I get how they'd work for microphonics/viration damping.  But claims like "allows mustic to flow more freely makes me put anti-snake-oil goggles at the top of my "want" list


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Nifty stufff, and I get how they'd work for microphonics/viration damping.  But claims like "allows mustic to flow more freely makes me put anti-snake-oil goggles at the top of my "want" list


 
  I understand.  To me it's just marketing spin.  I got the socket savers to make it easier to get the tubes out of the Lyr and the dampers to reduce microphonics.  I didn't look at the "marketing speak", but I did get them due to other Head-Fi'ers recommendations that they would do what I wanted.  I tend to blow off the snake-oil sales talk.  But there are some excellent little products out there (like the Herbies Dampers) that are worth a try (and some that aren't).  I had gotten cheap silicon O-ring dampers before the Herbies ones and as soon as I put one on, it rubbed the label off the tube (I wasn't happy).  The Herbies won't do that.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

After 20 hours, my first impressions of the RCA 6CG7 tubes (with side halo getter) are pretty much what Dailydoseofdaly and Misterrogers said...excellent bass extension that remains tight all the way down.  Warm, lush low end, mids, and highs.  No real exaggeration in any of the frequencies but a bit of rolloff in the highs.  Not recessed, but not upfront either.  "Buttery", maybe?  All I know is the music has a fullness as if you are getting the resonance of the wood in the stringed instruments and not just the sound of the string itself.  I am really liking this tube!  My favorite tracks of Alan Parsons Project "Eye in the Sky" are 1 and 2, "Sirius" and "Eye in the Sky" and bass from the synthesizers was there!  "Red Wine" from Fresh Aire IV sounds so organic, it gives me goosebumps...
   
  So, not too bad overall...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I haven't done a side-by-side comparo of the Lorenz and these but I will say that at the worst, these would be a close second to the Lorenz as my favorite tubes.  I will caveat my statement with the fact that this is the sound signature I like best.  Once I get over the "wow!" factor, that may change...but not by much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Hey, they're pretty cheap...not much to lose if you don't like them.  I will say they run hotter in the Lyr than my others but I believe that's because I'm not using socket savers with them (they're already tall) and most of the heat is dumped into the amp (still not an issue according to Schiit Audio).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## bleudeciel16

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> After 20 hours, my first impressions of the RCA 6CG7 tubes (with side halo getter) are pretty much what Dailydoseofdaly and Misterrogers said...excellent bass extension that remains tight all the way down.  Warm, lush low end, mids, and highs.  No real exaggeration in any of the frequencies but a bit of rolloff in the highs.  Not recessed, but not upfront either.  "Buttery", maybe?  All I know is the music has a fullness as if you are getting the resonance of the wood in the stringed instruments and not just the sound of the string itself.  I am really liking this tube!  My favorite tracks of Alan Parsons Project "Eye in the Sky" are 1 and 2, "Sirius" and "Eye in the Sky" and bass from the synthesizers was there!  "Red Wine" from Fresh Aire IV sounds so organic, it gives me goosebumps...
> 
> So, not too bad overall...
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've had 20+ hrs on mine now as well, and I have to agree.  They sound great.  Electronic music isn't the best (but the hd650's aren't the best headphones for that anyways), but classical music... it just sounds amazing.  String instruments especially.  I'm excited to swap the tubes out to see how the other two sets of tubes I bought sound.


----------



## Misterrogers

Yea, these run hot in ANY amp - I don't know why really, must be the design points. Hey, they could glow red for all I care 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just keep pumping out those sweet, organic sounds. A Clear Top in a pimped out CTH (Belleson Super Regulator, Hovland caps) is a giant killer.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> After 20 hours, my first impressions of the RCA 6CG7 tubes (with side halo getter) are pretty much what Dailydoseofdaly and Misterrogers said...excellent bass extension that remains tight all the way down.  Warm, lush low end, mids, and highs.  No real exaggeration in any of the frequencies but a bit of rolloff in the highs.  Not recessed, but not upfront either.  "Buttery", maybe?  All I know is the music has a fullness as if you are getting the resonance of the wood in the stringed instruments and not just the sound of the string itself.  I am really liking this tube!  My favorite tracks of Alan Parsons Project "Eye in the Sky" are 1 and 2, "Sirius" and "Eye in the Sky" and bass from the synthesizers was there!  "Red Wine" from Fresh Aire IV sounds so organic, it gives me goosebumps...
> 
> So, not too bad overall...
> 
> ...


 
  My impressions as well,...I was actually waiting for your report on these tubes HK...tnx
  Can I ask...which headphones were you using??
   
  "Close second to the Lorenz"...wow ,that says it all...
   
  Wondering what the blackplates, version will sound like?
  I should have them  in a few days...I will post some of my thoughts,after 10-20 hours .


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> My impressions as well,...I was actually waiting for your report on these tubes HK...tnx
> *Can I ask...which headphones were you using??*
> 
> "Close second to the Lorenz"...wow ,that says it all...
> ...


 
  Audeze LCD-3 with Q-Audio cable.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

HK, I forget, did you ever try the Siemens CCa tubes?  Very expensive and I would likely have never bought if Mr. Scary didn't sell a pair at a good price.    
  For me it went CCa > Lorenz but we all have different favorites.
  I do miss the Lyr.  Looking forward to the Schiit statement amp so I can roll 6922 tubes again like you guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  My wallet doesn't miss rolling though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I haven't done a side-by-side comparo of the Lorenz and these but I will say that at the worst, these would be a close second to the Lorenz as my favorite tubes.  I will caveat my statement with the fact that this is the sound signature I like best.  Once I get over the "wow!" factor, that may change...but not by much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


wnbc said:


> HK, I forget, did you ever try the Siemens CCa tubes?  Very expensive and I would likely have never bought if Mr. Scary didn't sell a pair at a good price.
> For me it went CCa > Lorenz but we all have different favorites.
> I do miss the Lyr.  Looking forward to the Schiit statement amp so I can roll 6922 tubes again like you guys
> 
> ...


 
  It's nice to hear from you!  I actually did get some of the Siemens CCa tubes and while they sounded wonderful, they really didn't have a strong bottom end (we are talking tubes here, arent we?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  That's about the time someone (Misterrogers, I believe) suggested the Lorenz PCC88s which had the three dimensionality of the CCa's, but also had a tight, round...er...bass.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Seriously, that was my first impression of the Lorenz 3-micas...CCa's with bass.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

The Lorenz 3-mica did not have the dimensionality of the CCa's.  I also preferred the timbre of instruments and vocals with the CCa's.  But definitely, bass went to the Lorenz tubes.  But again, that was my experience with my CCa and Lorenz tubes.  But we are splitting hairs here, for me, CCa #1, Lorenz #2.  I listen mostly to jazz for which there is not a lot of bass.  I can see how people that listen to other genres of music would prefer a tube that delivers more low end punch.
   
  I need to pay attention to this thread just in case somebody finds the last case of Lorenz tubes on some obscure website 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Plus, this is a great thread to keep up with what's hot in 6922, 6DJ8, 7DJ8, ECC88, CV2492/3 and 6N1P tubes.  Now 6CG7 tubes.  Cool stuff.
   
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> It's nice to hear from you!  I actually did get some of the Siemens CCa tubes and while they sounded wonderful, they really didn't have a strong bottom end (we are talking tubes here, arent we?
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SeaHawk

Since we're on the verge of another round of tube rolling 6CG7s, has anyone considered using adapters for the older 6SN7s?  Likely socket savers would have to be used to raise the adapter to the point you could get a tube in it.  Just now starting to do some Google research to see the differences (biggest one I see is that the heater circuits run at 600ma).
   
  Yeah, it might wind up looking like a FrankenLyr, but if we're opening the door for a new type of tube, why not kick it open all the way? 
   
   
  Edit: how cool would these look on top of your Lyr?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-ECC34-MATCHED-PAIR-full-NOS-NEW-in-box-BEAUTIFUL-/160764255036?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item256e4bdb3c


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I understand.  To me it's just marketing spin.  I got the socket savers to make it easier to get the tubes out of the Lyr and the dampers to reduce microphonics.  I didn't look at the "marketing speak", but I did get them due to other Head-Fi'ers recommendations that they would do what I wanted.  I tend to blow off the snake-oil sales talk.  But there are some excellent little products out there (like the Herbies Dampers) that are worth a try (and some that aren't).  I had gotten cheap silicon O-ring dampers before the Herbies ones and as soon as I put one on, it rubbed the label off the tube (I wasn't happy).  The Herbies won't do that.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, I didn't say they don't help with microphonics, and if I get a badly microphonic tube, I may ask you for that link again   I just kind of roll my eyes at crazy marketing spin like that....
   
  So...you actually mentioned the 6CG7's to Jason and he didn't blow a gasket?


----------



## underhysteria

May i know which dac will pair well with the lyrs for the lcds? I wouldnt want spend more than 400USDs on the dac component.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


iemcrazy said:


> Yeah, I didn't say they don't help with microphonics, and if I get a badly microphonic tube, I may ask you for that link again   I just kind of roll my eyes at crazy marketing spin like that....
> 
> So...you actually mentioned the 6CG7's to Jason and he didn't blow a gasket?


 
  No, he didn't.  He just said Schiit designed the Lyr for the 6922 tube family so he didn't think the 6CG7 would perform at its optimal level in the Lyr.
  Not a bad sound for a tube that isn't performing at its fullest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> A friend of mine is a tube fiend and he strongly recommended that I get some contact cleaner or really fine steel wool to clean the pins.
> Any opinions?


 
   
  I got a little OCD this morning and decided to clean the pins on my Amperex tubes.  The pins were black with oxidation.  I used MAAS metal polish and Q-Tips to clean the oxidation off the pins and got them nice and shiny.  Then I took a Q-Tip and sprayed it with Pro Gold G5 which claims to clean, improve conductivity and lubricates metal surfaces and then wiped down the pins.  I think the tubes went back into the sockets easier.  I use MAAS on all of the ends of my interconnects and power plugs to get them nice and clean.  I found that to be one of the best cheap tweaks someone can do to improve the sound of their systems.


----------



## MickeyVee

Cool.. no special audiophine voodoo contact cleaner.. I like it!
  Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> I got a little OCD this morning and decided to clean the pins on my Amperex tubes.  The pins were black with oxidation.  I used MAAS metal polish and Q-Tips to clean the oxidation off the pins and got them nice and shiny.  Then I took a Q-Tip and sprayed it with Pro Gold G5 which claims to clean, improve conductivity and lubricates metal surfaces and then wiped down the pins.  I think the tubes went back into the sockets easier.  I use MAAS on all of the ends of my interconnects and power plugs to get them nice and clean.  I found that to be one of the best cheap tweaks someone can do to improve the sound of their systems.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





underhysteria said:


> May i know which dac will pair well with the lyrs for the lcds? I wouldnt want spend more than 400USDs on the dac component.


 
  I ended up getting this one:
    http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=7
  Price is good,build quality is even better-....Schiit stands by there products..
   
  You might be able to pick one up...used,on the sell forum,&,
  You should be getting a few replies on this topic...& many Dacs to choose from.


----------



## underhysteria

mikek200 said:


> I ended up getting this one:
> http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=7
> Price is good,build quality is even better-....Schiit stands by there products..
> 
> ...




For the bitfrost, do i have to select the usb option if i want a direct usb connection to my computer ordoes it actually refer to something else?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





underhysteria said:


> For the bitfrost, do i have to select the usb option if i want a direct usb connection to my computer ordoes it actually refer to something else?


 
   
  ive heard the bifrost/lyr/lcd2 combo several times and really enjoyed it as well. yes you need to select usb as an options if you want to connect it to your computer via usb


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> I got a little OCD this morning and decided to clean the pins on my Amperex tubes.  The pins were black with oxidation.  I used MAAS metal polish and Q-Tips to clean the oxidation off the pins and got them nice and shiny.  Then I took a Q-Tip and sprayed it with Pro Gold G5 which claims to clean, improve conductivity and lubricates metal surfaces and then wiped down the pins.  I think the tubes went back into the sockets easier.  I use MAAS on all of the ends of my interconnects and power plugs to get them nice and clean.  I found that to be one of the best cheap tweaks someone can do to improve the sound of their systems.


 
   
  Would this work as well?
   
http://www.amazon.com/BlueMagic-400-Metal-Polish-Cream/dp/B000BO8Z9I/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1339441747&sr=8-6


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Maybe it's the Lyr's heater voltage (but then why would they be cautious about tubes with different voltages?  ), but most of it is tubes.  The 6BZ7 from Japan barely glowed at all.  By contrast the USA 6BZ7s glowed like  Chernobyl at sunrise.  The Mullard 2492s glow as little as or less than the Japanese GEs.   Maybe Lyrs vary but mostly I think it's just the lements on various tube models.


 
  You could be right about the various tube models. But in comparison my Lorenz all of them, Siemens all of them, Mullards all of them, amongst various Amperex, GE, and crappy Russian tubes
  glow, well, the same. It worried me at first but then Jason confirmed that Lyrs just vary. The sound is of all importance to me, so it's alright.
   
  "Jason, I need a RMA, my Lyr doesn't make tubes glow enough!" that'll go over so well.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> You could be right about the various tube models. But in comparison my Lorenz all of them, Siemens all of them, Mullards all of them, amongst various Amperex, GE, and crappy Russian tubes
> glow, well, the same. It worried me at first but then Jason confirmed that Lyrs just vary. The sound is of all importance to me, so it's alright.
> 
> "Jason, I need a RMA, my Lyr doesn't make tubes glow enough!" that'll go over so well.


 
  LOL!  You never know, Jason is a great guy...he might just issue you an RMA. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> LOL!  You never know, Jason is a great guy...he might just issue you an RMA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No, you're right. But I'd honestly feel like an ass


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> No, you're right. But I'd honestly feel like an ass


 
  All kidding aside though, you could always send it in to have Schiit check it over and ensure everything is functioning ok.  I'll probably do that at least once before my five year warranty runs out.
  If it checks out ok, then just shine a little red light at the top of the tube and call it good.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Cool.. no special audiophine voodoo contact cleaner.. I like it!


 
  www.iemcrazy4audio.com/productid?cryotreated-argon-contactcleaner.asp
   
  $79.99 3oz spray bottle
  SPECIAL for Lyr tube rollers $59.99 (Use code "iemasucker" at checkout)


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> www.iemcrazy4audio.com/productid?cryotreated-argon-contactcleaner.asp
> 
> $79.99 3oz spray bottle
> SPECIAL for Lyr tube rollers $59.99 (Use code "iemasucker" at checkout)


 
  WOW!!  Is that really with _free shipping_?
   
  I'm there!  Somewhere!  ...or not...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  Bull Shannon is my hero!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> All kidding aside though, you could always send it in to have Schiit check it over and ensure everything is functioning ok.  I'll probably do that at least once before my five year warranty runs out.
> If it checks out ok, then just shine a little red light at the top of the tube and call it good.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I might do that after I order Mjolnir. Why ya gotta tease me, HK?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> You could be right about the various tube models. But in comparison my Lorenz all of them, Siemens all of them, Mullards all of them, amongst various Amperex, GE, and crappy Russian tubes
> glow, well, the same. It worried me at first but then Jason confirmed that Lyrs just vary. The sound is of all importance to me, so it's alright.
> 
> "Jason, I need a RMA, my Lyr doesn't make tubes glow enough!" that'll go over so well.


 
  Interesting, though i have two Lyrs, and both glow the same way with the same tubes.  The USA GEs are the only ones that glow bright.  Of course my main one also fries headphones...one of these days ill get around to RMAing it when i fee i wont miss it for 2 or 3 weeks.    It sounds fine in the mean time


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I might do that after I order Mjolnir. Why ya gotta tease me, HK?


 
  Hey...I gotta be me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Interesting, though i have two Lyrs, and both glow the same way with the same tubes.  The USA GEs are the only ones that glow bright.  Of course my main one also fries headphones...one of these days ill get around to RMAing it when i fee i wont miss it for 2 or 3 weeks.    It sounds fine in the mean time


 
  LOL Why does your main one fry headphones? Of course the GEs glow the brightest. Jason specifically made sure he'd sabotage our CCa/Lorenz light shows.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Hey...I gotta be me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 So freaking annoyed!


----------



## Lee Harvey

carlsan said:


> Would this work as well?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/BlueMagic-400-Metal-Polish-Cream/dp/B000BO8Z9I/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1339441747&sr=8-6





It would probably work. MAAS comes in a tube and can be found at Home Depot or Lowes for about $4.00. It works on chrome, silver, steel and other metals. It is not abrasive. Pro Gold G5 can be found at Mapleshade.com. It used to be about $15.00 a spray can. Ether one of those will last you a lifetime. Mine are about 8 years old. A little goes a long ways. I can say that I found an improvement in sound quality on two sets of my tubes, the Amperex's and the RCA's. I listened to a Blondie live album, Boz Skaggs live album and The Blues Brothers. On all of them I could hear low level details more clearly such as audience noises, reverb of the venues that they were playing in ect. That's your Cheap Tweak of the Week. It will make your $10.00 tubes sound like $50.00 tubes.


----------



## HK_sends

Wow!  3601 posts (and 241 pages) about tubes for the Lyr.  Must be popular or something.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## netbususer

Well, not all of us use the Lyr. The 6DJ8 is a very popular tube and this thread has turned out to have a lot of good information on this variety of tube!


----------



## HK_sends

It's good the thread helps others as well, then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Ok, up late at night and gave in. Just bought a lot of 12 (oops) tubes all together. Half Clear tops, half blackplates.
  Hope they're better than good.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ok, up late at night and gave in. Just bought a lot of 12 (oops) tubes all together. Half Clear tops, half blackplates.
> Hope they're better than good.


 
  A good round number..12=6pairs..nice
  From what I've read on Brent Jesse's sight..blackplates might have a slight edge..
   
  MRrogers ,your help is needed


----------



## paradoxper

Sorry...I meant 12 pairs. So I got 6 cleartops and 6 blackplates. I figured they seem to be a gem and I am sure
  prices will inflate sooner rather than later. Impressions will come...in time...


----------



## underhysteria

Have anyone here paired the ODAC with the lyrs?


----------



## Nerolucido

paradoxper said:


> Sorry...I meant 12 pairs. So I got 6 cleartops and 6 blackplates. I figured they seem to be a gem and I am sure
> prices will inflate sooner rather than later. Impressions will come...in time...




Hi,
what kind of blackplate have you got? big D getter maybe? I'm trying to figure out how many "blackplates" are out there. And if you don't mind, can you reveal where did you find them?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





nerolucido said:


> Hi,
> what kind of blackplate have you got? big D getter maybe? I'm trying to figure out how many "blackplates" are out there. And if you don't mind, can you reveal where did you find them?


 
  Hey Nerolucido,
   
  They are RCA blackplates and you can find them on Ebay. Generally speaking even maybe upscaleaudio or tubemonger.


----------



## Nerolucido

paradoxper said:


> Hey Nerolucido,
> 
> They are RCA blackplates and you can find them on Ebay. Generally speaking even maybe upscaleaudio or tubemonger.




Thank you 
I've got another question for you: are these Blackplates?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





underhysteria said:


> Have anyone here paired the ODAC with the lyrs?


 
   
  No, I've done the opposite, paired O2 amp with Bifrost.  Sounds great (for an analytical SS amp.)  I really like the pair with my D5k.  But Lyr wins for everything else.
   
  I suspect ODAC & Bifrost won't sound overwhelmingly different, but Bifrost is a lot prettier and, in my case, has S/PDIF which I positively needed.
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> WOW!!  Is that really with _free shipping_?
> 
> I'm there!  Somewhere!  ...or not...
> 
> ...


 
   
  *This offer can not be combined with other offers including free shipping.  Other exclusions apply.  Limit (1) per customer.
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> LOL Why does your main one fry headphones? Of course the GEs glow the brightest. Jason specifically made sure he'd sabotage our CCa/Lorenz light shows.


 
   
  No idea why it fries things.  Jason's stumped too until I send it back.  My best guess is a bad capacitor, bad relay, or badly formed trace to ground.  Basically no matter when I plug in headphones after turning it on, even if I let the amp sit on for an hour, then plug in headphones it releases quite a charge into the headphones (enough to make a loud "pop" from the speakers but rarely enough to damage them UNLESS I plug in before the relay clicks in which case the combination of the modest power thump from the closing relay plus the defect can (and did) blow my HD650s.  Something's hanging onto a charge on power-up and not letting it go until a load is connected.  I've noticed it seems to react slightly differently with different tubes.  I.E. the Mullards seem to have a lesser (quieter) jolt than the GEs did.  May just be lower gain overall.
   
  Except I haven't wanted to part with my Lyr for any time.  So I just keep the broken 650 drivers dangling from the stock cable and plug them in to release the charge after I power up.  After that, there's no more issue, I can plug and unplug with no noise.   Of course my other Lyr is dead silent at all times and has no defect.  But I still don't want to be without it...it'll take a week in transit in both directions from east to west coast (getting them originally was a 7 day wait...5 business days, plus weekend.) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Jason gave me an RMA number before I even asked for one.  I asked him if I _had_ to send it in right away....he thinks I'm nuts now


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Except I haven't wanted to part with my Lyr for any time.  So I just keep the broken 650 drivers dangling from the stock cable and plug them in to release the charge after I power up.  After that, there's no more issue, I can plug and unplug with no noise.   Of course my other Lyr is dead silent at all times and has no defect.  But I still don't want to be without it...it'll take a week in transit in both directions from east to west coast (getting them originally was a 7 day wait...5 business days, plus weekend.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, please send it in. Or allow us to do an exchange. Please.


----------



## mikek200

sorry bout that


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





nerolucido said:


> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Its hard to say judging from a small picture.
   
  Is the seller listing them as ..Blackplates?
   
   
  That being said..they look exactly like the pair I got yesterday..even the backround of the image is the same,from an e-bayer in Florida??
  I would check with the seller,via e-mail..this way your covered by e-bay,if they are not??


----------



## HK_sends

So Jason,
   
  Were finding these 6CG7s to sound pretty good in the Lyr.  Have you considered giving them a listen?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> So Jason,
> 
> Were finding these 6CG7s to sound pretty good in the Lyr.  Have you considered giving them a listen?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yep, I have. Still not my favorite, but YMMV.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


jason stoddard said:


> Yep, I have. Still not my favorite, but YMMV.


 
  True enough!  I really do have to thank you for making a fine piece of audio equipment that lets you try so many "out-of-the-box" options.  It's amazing we even have the chance to try differnet things like the PCC88s or 6CG7s.
   
  Looking forward to the statement amp!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## underhysteria

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> No, I've done the opposite, paired O2 amp with Bifrost.  Sounds great (for an analytical SS amp.)  I really like the pair with my D5k.  But Lyr wins for everything else.
> 
> I suspect ODAC & Bifrost won't sound overwhelmingly different, but Bifrost is a lot prettier and, in my case, has S/PDIF which I positively needed.


 
   
  Thanks mate.. I am trying to find a <800USD setup for my LCDs. And the ODAC is half the price of the Bifrost.. something for me to consider


----------



## Nerolucido

mikek200 said:


> Its hard to say judging from a small picture.
> 
> Is the seller listing them as ..Blackplates?
> 
> ...




I've checked with the seller, and they're infact grey plates, item #261010328659 if anyone cares.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





nerolucido said:


> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Those kind of look like them. But honestly it's too hard to tell from the pic. And I also don't' have the tubes sitting in front of me.


----------



## Striation

I burned a pair of RCA clear tops for about 60 hours and gave them a listen on my HE-500's.  Bass extension is there but the recessed high end is a deal breaker for me.  Cymbals take it in the shorts and if you like "sparkle"  you aren't going to find it here.  Vocals are pushed back to the rear also.  So if you like upfront forward vocals you won't find that here either.  They definitely have their own sound signature many may enjoy but not my cup of tea.
   
  Stri


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





striation said:


> I burned a pair of RCA clear tops for about 60 hours and gave them a listen on my HE-500's.  Bass extension is there but the recessed high end is a deal breaker for me.  Cymbals take it in the shorts and if you like "sparkle"  you aren't going to find it here.  Vocals are pushed back to the rear also.  So if you like upfront forward vocals you won't find that here either.  They definitely have their own sound signature many may enjoy but not my cup of tea.
> 
> Stri


 
  Thanks your for you impressions, Stri. I had a feeling that may be the case with the clear tops. Then a buddy recommended the black plates might be better.
  Pretty excited to see what the fuss is about.
   
  Stri, what is your preferred tube?


----------



## Striation

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Thanks your for you impressions, Stri. I had a feeling that may be the case with the clear tops. Then a buddy recommended the black plates might be better.
> Pretty excited to see what the fuss is about.
> 
> Stri, what is your preferred tube?


 
   
   
  I have a pair of Mullards I like lately that are just a 6dj8 I got from Brent Jesse.  But I really like my of Siemens PCC88's (Grays not Silvers) that Mr. Rogers sold me.  The Siemens have the soundstage and air without giving up any highs or mids.  Then there are always the Amperex Bugle Boys and other 6dj8s / 6922s that sound good to me.  I think there is something to the Lyr being designed around this family of tubes that make them a solid base for listening enjoyment.
   
  Stri


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


striation said:


> I have a pair of Mullards I like lately that are just a 6dj8 I got from Brent Jesse.  *But I really like my of Siemens PCC88's (Grays not Silvers*) that Mr. Rogers sold me.  The Siemens have the soundstage and air without giving up any highs or mids.  Then there are always the Amperex Bugle Boys and other 6dj8s / 6922s that sound good to me.  I think there is something to the Lyr being designed around this family of tubes that make them a solid base for listening enjoyment.
> 
> Stri


 
  I could never figure out why, but the grey-plates always seem to sound better than the silver-plates...
   




  -HK sends


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> I could never figure out why, but the grey-plates always seem to sound better than the silver-plates...
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Grey plates are grey colored because they've added some rare earth minerals, while silver plates are just bare silver plates (not really made of silver, just figurative way of saying) with little or no such minerals. Those vintage grey plate tubes were made back in the old days when those rare earth minerals supposedly weren't really rare, or maybe weren't considered to be rare or precious; but no tube company adds rare minerals nowadays because they're expensive. At least that's what Mr. Rogers told me.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Grey plates are grey colored because they've added some rare earth minerals, while silver plates are just bare silver plates (not really made of silver, just figurative way of saying) with little or no such minerals. Those vintage grey plate tubes were made back in the old days when those rare earth minerals supposedly weren't really rare, or maybe weren't considered to be rare or precious; but no tube company adds rare minerals nowadays because they're expensive. At least that's what Mr. Rogers told me.


 
  It sounds good to me!  (Of course, the pun was intended...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## faverodefavero

Please guys, which are the most silent (pit-black, zero-grain, noise floor) tube pair for the Lyr in your opinion? Please, if you can post some easy-to-find tubes I'd be really glad (also, a link where I can find them for sale would be great). I'm really looking for the most silent pair of tubes for my Lyr I can buy!
   
  Thanks so much for the help!!


----------



## IEMCrazy

For those following it, I did _finally_ try the D5k on the Mullards, and, Lyr's still too noisy for them.  I hereby rescind my apology to Rope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It's not _as _bad as the GE's were in terms of noise with all kinds of spurring and whining and screeching like sound was "leaking" through tiny cracks while under extreme pressure.   But there's a slight background hum, and the whole thing is much more susceptible to noise from the Squeezebox's WiFi transmissions while other headphones don't pick up that noise, and the D5k doesn't pick it up from an SS amp.  So I still don't think Lyr and Dxxxx are a good match, though Rope can certainly disagree


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> For those following it, I did _finally_ try the D5k on the Mullards, and, Lyr's still too noisy for them.  I hereby rescind my apology to Rope
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have D5k's and not had any noise issues with any of the tubes I have used with the Lyr.  On some of the tubes like the RCA 6BQ7A's the D5K's get a little tubby sounding compared to my other tubes.  But that's about it.


----------



## MrScary

On the RCA 6CG7s :  I have not given them a fair shake yet but I only had some Large O getter Amperex Holland's in before I put these in and as soon as I did I noticed several traits one was just a tad of recessed high's with my equipment I also noticed I had to crank up the Lyr a bit I have not cared enough to look at the Voltage rating... I also immediately noticed a bit of muddled bass.. Not bad by any means but to be fair I did not have high end tubes in the Lyr in the first place so I will listen I recognize this sound its not bad I could live with these but once you have heard the best you know you have nothing to loose.
  IMHO they sound better than the GE's and the Chernobyl tubes.. Ohh I mean Russian things.. and JJ junk...God they are everywhere I keep finding them... ...    I would say for someone wanting a good tube on the cheap these surely would be IMHO an improvement on the GE's, JJ's or the Russian things...   Now you guys know I'm big on audio chain right now I am listening very Neutral with a Studio Dac so this is about as close as I am gong to even bother getting with these... I paid I think 12.00 or something matched but I did notice the prices for these are all over... ÖÖ


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





striation said:


> I have a pair of Mullards I like lately that are just a 6dj8 I got from Brent Jesse.  But I really like my of Siemens PCC88's (Grays not Silvers) that Mr. Rogers sold me.  The Siemens have the soundstage and air without giving up any highs or mids.  Then there are always the Amperex Bugle Boys and other 6dj8s / 6922s that sound good to me.  I think there is something to the Lyr being designed around this family of tubes that make them a solid base for listening enjoyment.
> 
> Stri


 
  Those Siemen's PCC88's are probablty the same tube as the Telefuken PCC88 may be may not but if they are then yes they do sound good.. I like the Telefuken PCC88's I have noticed with my new ED 9 Ultrasones that tube rolling is radically different than the LCD's and my other phones name them I have them or access to them...


----------



## MickeyVee

I've had my Lyr for a couple of weeks now and this tube rolling thing is driving me crazy.  Purchased the Lyr used and it came with the JJ and the Russian 6n1P. As much as I tried to listen and like them.. well.. fail.  I thing I'm going to by a slingshot from the Dollar Store and see how far they can go and how much noise they make when they hit the ground.

 Currently running Amperex PQ ECC88 Holland 1972/1973 (tested as new) and they're OK.  Just burning them in and they seem to be getting better but still no wow factor. 
 I've been following this thread for a while now and last September when the Lorenz Stuttgart was all the rage (and I guess still is), I purchased a pair (PCC88 1960s Gray Shield) knowing the Lyr was somewhere in my future.  I ran them for an hour or two and Holy WOW!!  I'm saving these for when I get the BiFrost and after its well burned in.
 Ordered a pair of the GE 6BZ7 from Schiit to give them a try. I'll probably use these while I'm burning in the BiFrost.
 After re-reading this thread, decided to order the Matsu****a E88CC 6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling.  Hopefully they are as good as people are saying.
  Now I'm reading about other cool tubes.  Think I'll stop for a while and let my system settle.  I never thought that getting the Lyr would be so tiring.  Work all day, come home, fire up the desktop system for some more burn in, have dinner, go for a 1-2 hour bike ride, shower and then 2-3 hours listening. Leave system on for overnight burn in. Bed. Repeat.
  Thanks all for the great information! Although I follow about a dozen threads, this is definitely my favorite!!


----------



## ckc527

Looking for help to authenticate these Lorenz tubes I recently acquired. The seller sold them to me as Lorenz 6DJ8 tubes. He only had 3 of them. When I compared these to the photos from Tubemonger, they look identical to the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-Mica Gray Shield from 1960s. All 3 have "327" in white on top of the tubes. The brown oval Lorenz logos are very faint but you can see it from an angle. On the opposite side of the logo I can see the words "in germany" also in brown color, very hard to read but it's there. These tubes look slightly fatter compared to other tubes I have but about same height.
   
  So what do I have here? What's the diff between the white, black and brown logos? 
   



   
   
  Thanks,
  ckc
[size=1.3em] 
  [/size]


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Looking for help to authenticate these Lorenz tubes I recently acquired. The seller sold them to me as Lorenz 6DJ8 tubes. He only had 3 of them. When I compared these to the photos from Tubemonger, they look identical to the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-Mica Gray Shield from 1960s. All 3 have "327" in white on top of the tubes. The brown oval Lorenz logos are very faint but you can see it from an angle. On the opposite side of the logo I can see the words "in germany" also in brown color, very hard to read but it's there. These tubes look slightly fatter compared to other tubes I have but about same height.
> 
> So what do I have here? What's the diff between the white, black and brown logos?
> 
> ...


 
  To my eyes they look to have the correct getters as my 3-micas. (may ask mrrogers as he's a wise one, and knows wizards)


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Looking for help to authenticate these Lorenz tubes I recently acquired. The seller sold them to me as Lorenz 6DJ8 tubes. He only had 3 of them. When I compared these to the photos from Tubemonger, they look identical to the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-Mica Gray Shield from 1960s. All 3 have "327" in white on top of the tubes. The brown oval Lorenz logos are very faint but you can see it from an angle. On the opposite side of the logo I can see the words "in germany" also in brown color, very hard to read but it's there. These tubes look slightly fatter compared to other tubes I have but about same height.
> 
> So what do I have here? What's the diff between the white, black and brown logos?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I think if you lend them to me I can surely find out. I'm a master of the lorenz tube considering I own "0" of them


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Looking for help to authenticate these Lorenz tubes I recently acquired. The seller sold them to me as Lorenz 6DJ8 tubes. He only had 3 of them. When I compared these to the photos from Tubemonger, they look identical to the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-Mica Gray Shield from 1960s. All 3 have "327" in white on top of the tubes. The brown oval Lorenz logos are very faint but you can see it from an angle. On the opposite side of the logo I can see the words "in germany" also in brown color, very hard to read but it's there. These tubes look slightly fatter compared to other tubes I have but about same height.
> 
> So what do I have here? What's the diff between the white, black and brown logos?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Hi Ckc,
   
  Yes, you've gotten hold of the authentic 3 Mica Lorenz tubes.
  They have grey internal shields and grey getter supports like what you have.
  The 3 Mica structure is also unique for Lorenz tubes.
   
  The original Stuttgart German tubes have an oval logo around the "Lorenz".
  That can be seen from your 3rd picture.
   
  For the 3 mica version, I only have the E88CC and PCC88 variant.
  The internal structures are the same though.
  If these are really 6DJ8 Lorenz tubes, then you must be one of the only rare individuals to own such a tube! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  So far, I have not been able to get hold of any 6DJ8 Lorenz tubes myself.
  My guess is that the sonic signature for your Lorenz Tubes would be balanced in all audio frequencies.
  The bass should also be "Kick-ass" good.
  This is a very good tube and sounds better than a Siemens CCa.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hi Ckc,
> 
> Yes, you've gotten hold of the authentic 3 Mica Lorenz tubes.
> They have grey internal shields and grey getter supports like what you have.
> ...


 
  I can't even find a listing for the 6Dj8 Lorenz. Those things are mythical!


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I can't even find a listing for the 6Dj8 Lorenz. Those things are mythical!


 
   
  How about a Lorenz Stuttgart 6BZ7?
   
  Do you think Mr "Skull and Bones" would flip if I pulled one out of my hat?




   
   
  BTW, I'm really joking here!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> How about a Lorenz Stuttgart 6BZ7?
> 
> Do you think Mr "Skull and Bones" would flip if I pulled one out of my hat?
> 
> ...


 
  Oh, I got a pair of them.
www.iemcrazy4audio.com/productid?cryotreatedsuperrarenosnibcca6BZ7Lorenz.asp
   
  Thanks IEM!!!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I've had my Lyr for a couple of weeks now and this tube rolling thing is driving me crazy.  Purchased the Lyr used and it came with the JJ and the Russian 6n1P. As much as I tried to listen and like them.. well.. fail.  I thing I'm going to by a slingshot from the Dollar Store and see how far they can go and how much noise they make when they hit the ground.
> 
> Currently running Amperex PQ ECC88 Holland 1972/1973 (tested as new) and they're OK.  Just burning them in and they seem to be getting better but still no wow factor.
> I've been following this thread for a while now and last September when the Lorenz Stuttgart was all the rage (and I guess still is), I purchased a pair (PCC88 1960s Gray Shield) knowing the Lyr was somewhere in my future.  I ran them for an hour or two and Holy WOW!!  I'm saving these for when I get the BiFrost and after its well burned in.
> ...


 
  You seriously need to buckle down and spend some of that tube money on a DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Endless tube rolling to make up for the DAC you wish you were using isn't going to cut it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The 6BZ7 are nice, if your pair isn't noisy, if you like a more neutral almost-but-not-quite SS type sound.  More tubey than SS, but you can tell mostly only when you compare to SS. But it's only $10 a tube....live dangerous.  If you already have Lorenz I'm not sure what kind of wow factor you're looking for from other tubes, though the Lorenz aren't said to be overly warm.  The Matsus, being Mullard-ish are probably warm. Which I will say is a very nice match for HD650 if it's Mullard-like. Or just rip the 2ch apart and steal your DLII back for your headphone rig, or get that Bifrost already! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Oh, I got a pair of them.
> www.iemcrazy4audio.com/productid?cryotreatedsuperrarenosnibcca6BZ7Lorenz.asp
> 
> Thanks IEM!!!


 
   
  Not a problem, service is just what I do!   And don't forget, special deal for Head-Fi'ers, order one or more master case of Cryo-Treated Super Rare NOS Nib CCa6BZ7Lorenz tubes and get a pair of NOS Silver Copper Dielectric 12V Bugle Boy TeslaCV24936922's, production date 1763-1774, super rare, pre-treated with Cryo Contact Cleaner *absolutely free!  *Offer good only while supplies last!


----------



## Misterrogers

What Lord Soth said! Beautiful tri-mica's! 



lord soth said:


> Hi Ckc,
> 
> Yes, you've gotten hold of the authentic 3 Mica Lorenz tubes.
> They have grey internal shields and grey getter supports like what you have.
> ...


----------



## MickeyVee

Already done.  Sold the Matrix Mini-i and have the DLIII in my HP system.  Just waiting for some eBay sales money to clear and will order the BiFrost with USB.
  All the tube rolling I'm doing right now is with the DLIII in place.
  Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Or just rip the 2ch apart and steal your DLII back for your headphone rig, or get that Bifrost already!


----------



## paradoxper

Alright Soth, can you tell us/me what do the markings on some Lorenz tubes with OM or EW mean? Haven't been able to quite find an answer. Thanks.


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hi Ckc,
> 
> Yes, you've gotten hold of the authentic 3 Mica Lorenz tubes.
> They have grey internal shields and grey getter supports like what you have.
> ...


 
   
  Thanks LS. Tonight I'll double check to see if I can make out any other prints on the glass to determine if these are ECC88/6DJ8 or PCC88. Since the PCC88 have a higher heater rating, is that something that can be confirmed through a tube tester?
   
  From my brief listen to these tubes last night, they are "balanced" as you described. I'll have to spend more time on these to compare the bass as it did not stood out immediately to me as having better or worst bass quality compared to the bugle boys (D and Large O getter versions) I've been listening to.
   
  I did notice that I had to turn up the volume knob from 9 to 10 in order to reach my ideal listening level with these tubes, similar to when I plug in my Valvo PCC88 D getter tubes. Do you have to change your volume level going from E88CC to PCC88?
   
  ckc


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Already done.  Sold the Matrix Mini-i and have the DLIII in my HP system.  Just waiting for some eBay sales money to clear and will order the BiFrost with USB.
> All the tube rolling I'm doing right now is with the DLIII in place.


 
  And with all those magic tubes you still can't find one that makes you happy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Well, you can always send me those Lorenz of yours to me for...you know...evaluation so I can confirm what you may not be enjoying yet about them.   I'll give some feedback after a year or three.


----------



## Misterrogers

Tubes have different effective 'gain' - this is even true across tubes of the same class (6DJ8, etc.).



ckc527 said:


> Thanks LS. Tonight I'll double check to see if I can make out any other prints on the glass to determine if these are ECC88/6DJ8 or PCC88. Since the PCC88 have a higher heater rating, is that something that can be confirmed through a tube tester?
> 
> From my brief listen to these tubes last night, they are "balanced" as you described. I'll have to spend more time on these to compare the bass as it did not stood out immediately to me as having better or worst bass quality compared to the bugle boys (D and Large O getter versions) I've been listening to.
> 
> ...


----------



## MickeyVee

Lorenz is the magic WOW!  Waiting to get the BiFrost in and broken in before I use them regularly.  Looking for the alternate WOW tube as I will probably never see another set of Lorenz. Got 'nuff tubes for now.
  Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> And with all those magic tubes you still can't find one that makes you happy?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Tubes have different effective 'gain' - this is even true across tubes of the same class (6DJ8, etc.).


 

 Does that hold true for tubes by the same make/class? Can one pair of bugle boy large O have a different gain vs. another identical pair?
   
  Thanks,
  ckc


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Lorenz is the magic WOW!  Waiting to get the BiFrost in and broken in before I use them regularly.  Looking for the alternate WOW tube as I will probably never see another set of Lorenz. Got 'nuff tubes for now.


 
  I'm so jealous I haven't found a pair that isn't a ridiculous pricing haha


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Lorenz is the magic WOW!  Waiting to get the BiFrost in and broken in before I use them regularly.  Looking for the alternate WOW tube as I will probably never see another set of Lorenz. Got 'nuff tubes for now.


 
   
  I'll bet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The Matsus will probably be starkly different.  From what I've read hear the Lorenz are far from warm, more toward the detailed, crisp, big soundstage vein.  I haven't tried them so I can't say...I'm just assuming they bear similarities to Mullards since it's the Mullard setup factory.  Though since you'll never get the miracle of Lorenz again, maybe different is the best way to go!


----------



## Misterrogers

Generally, no. I'm sure there's some slight manufacturing variance, but generally no.



ckc527 said:


> Does that hold true for tubes by the same make/class? Can one pair of bugle boy large O have a different gain vs. another identical pair?
> 
> Thanks,
> ckc


----------



## MickeyVee

That's probably why the Lorenz work so well with the DLIII which is warm, luscious and not a particular detail monster.  I bought the DLIII to tame my Rotel / Martin Logan combo where it's perfect. (thy'll just have to be lonely until the BiFrost is in). I read a review where the DLIII was summed as the beauty in the music and the BiFrost the truth in the music.
  The Lorenz are in and mate perfectly with the DLIII. Punch, detail, air, beautiful mids, fabulous soundstage. WOW! (maybe I'll hate them with the BiFrost)  Done with waiting for desert.  This is my meal right now and am loving it. The Lorenz stay. Over and out for a while and I'll report back when the BiFrost lands.  
  In the interim, I'll let the system disappear and just enjoy the music.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I'll bet!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

hey guys i was curious has jason made any comments about the statement amp using 6922s? seeing that his all the tube amps thus far incorporate that type, i was hoping the pattern would continue(for reasons obvious to this thread).


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> hey guys i was curious has jason made any comments about the statement amp using 6922s? seeing that his all the tube amps thus far incorporate that type, i was hoping the pattern would continue(for reasons obvious to this thread).


 
  He has mentioned to me that the Statement will use completely different tube family and different sockets, so no.


----------



## netbususer

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> hey guys i was curious has jason made any comments about the statement amp using 6922s? seeing that his all the tube amps thus far incorporate that type, i was hoping the pattern would continue(for reasons obvious to this thread).


 
  I'm sure Jason can comment, but I remember reading a post of his saying that they are very particular to the 6DJ8 family and that a google search for "Mike Moffet 6DJ8" would explain it all. (I didn't find much with my google search as he requested, but I was also really tired when I tried. I also remember him saying that they were particularly impressed with the 6SN7 tube line and that it may be implemented later on. I suppose he would be the best to comment on the matter, though.  (after all, this is all IIRC.)


----------



## SeaHawk

Why not implement 6SN7's now? 
 Parts ordered, project about to get underway!
  Just a step away from 7N7's as well...  ouch...


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Alright Soth, can you tell us/me what do the markings on some Lorenz tubes with OM or EW mean? Haven't been able to quite find an answer. Thanks.


 
   
  Ok.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You got me!
   
  I will have to defer to Misterrogers and his (omniscient) tube-guru advisor on that one.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Thanks LS. Tonight I'll double check to see if I can make out any other prints on the glass to determine if these are ECC88/6DJ8 or PCC88. Since the PCC88 have a higher heater rating, is that something that can be confirmed through a tube tester?
> 
> From my brief listen to these tubes last night, they are "balanced" as you described. I'll have to spend more time on these to compare the bass as it did not stood out immediately to me as having better or worst bass quality compared to the bugle boys (D and Large O getter versions) I've been listening to.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi Ckc,
   
  As you no doubt know, the PCC88 is actually an ECC88 valve which is rated to run with a heater voltage of 7V instead of 6.3v for the "normal" ECC88/6DJ8.
  Based on my experience with many ECC88 and PCC88 from Siemens, Philips, Telefunken and Valvo, the internal structures for ECC88 and PCC88 are exactly the same to the naked eye.
  I do not own the Lorenz ECC88 but I am fairly certain that the PCC88 Lorenz would be the same tube.
   
  The short answer to your question is no.
  There is no way to tell because the typical electrical behaviour of both ECC88 and PCC88 are exactly the same.
   
  If you refer to the datasheet of the PCC88 over here
http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/030/p/PCC88.pdf
   
  and compare it with the datasheet of the ECC88 over here
http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/030/e/ECC88.pdf
   
  the Ia = 15ma
  for typical operation of Va = 90v and Vg = -1.3v.
   
  If you look at the graphs, you can see that they exhibit the same behaviour too.
   
  I have a tube tester and so far, I have found that PCC88s conform to the same specs as an ECC88.
  For a NOS tube, I do get a reading of Ia=15ma regardless of whether it is an ECC88 or PCC88.
   
  As for sonics, I have found that the PCC88 2 Mica Lorenz tubes have the best (i.e. kick-ass in your face) bass.
  The 3 mica (E88CC and PCC88) variants have that too but to a lesser extent.
   
  As for the volume knob, I have found that my Lorenz 3 Mica E88CC have higher tube gain than the Lorenz 3 Mica PCC88.
  So the volume knob has to be set higher for the PCC88.
  I have played with other PCC88s though and I have to say that not all PCC88s require the volume to be set higher.
  For example, my Telefunken PCC88s have very high gain and are comparable to the E88CC Siemens and Lorenz I have tube rolled before.
  As for Valvo tubes, I have played with them before, both the D(Hamburg Germany) types and the Delta(Philips Holland) types.
  Somehow, my Valvo tubes (at least the ones I own) seem to have the lowest specs.
  For e.g., the Ia for a Nos(*) Valvo tube is usually around 12ma instead of 15ma for other brands.
  (*)I managed to get hold of some really NOS Virgin tubes which came in crisp and pristine Valvo tube boxes.
  They also light up with a fiery flash at the bottom when they were first tested on my tube tester.
  This is another way of telling whether your European tubes are really virgin NOS or not.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I found the PCC88 2 Mica Lorenz to have pretty good synergy with my rev.2 LCD-2. It took the HD800 though to show how good the Bugle Boys truly are. The HD800 revealed my Bugles to have the same sonic balance as the Lorenz, but the bass on the Amperex had more presence and body and the upper registers to be more extended, open yet smoother. The Bugles had more "air" and sparkle and really accentuated the imaging strength of the HD800. Dynamics were explosive, quiet/loud contrasts were stark but realistic. The Lorenz on the other sounded flatter, less dynamic and more constrained, and I heard vocals as slightly veiled in comparison. I found the Lorenz less transparent and engaging as a result.
   
  Those fantasising about the fabled Lorez tubes should find a reputable dealer (i.e. not on ebay) for these NOS Amperex tubes. The BBs are still abundant and don't demand ultra premium prices.
   
  Note: My system was MBP (iTunes + BitPerfect) playing lossless ALAC in 16/44 and 24/96 > Furutech Formula 2 > Bifrost > BJC LC-1 > Lyr > LCD-2 rev.2 (Q-audio cable) / HD800 (stock cable). Usual caveats of YMMV, IMHO, OMG, What, ETC...


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Does that hold true for tubes by the same make/class? Can one pair of bugle boy large O have a different gain vs. another identical pair?
> 
> Thanks,
> ckc


 
  Also,is there a major difference in SQ from the Large O Getter,and the regular O Getter
  The large O getter seems to get a higher price??


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> ....
> I found the PCC88 2 Mica Lorenz to have pretty good synergy with my rev.2 LCD-2. It took the HD800 though to show how good the Bugle Boys truly are. The HD800 revealed my Bugles to have the same sonic balance as the Lorenz, but the bass on the Amperex had more presence and body and the upper registers to be more extended, open yet smoother. *The Bugles had more "air" *and sparkle and really accentuated the imaging strength of the HD800. Dynamics were explosive, quiet/loud contrasts were stark but realistic. The Lorenz on the other sounded flatter, less dynamic and more constrained, and I heard vocals as slightly veiled in comparison. I found the Lorenz less transparent and engaging as a result.
> 
> .....


 
   
  My sonic impressions are based on my DT880 (600 Ohms) set of cans.
  For my neutral set of cans, I have always preferred the linearity of German Tubes over the warmth of Holland Based Philips/Amperex tubes.
   
  Kevin Deal of Upscale once aptly described the attribute of "air" as a form of microphonics.
  Based on my actual comparison of CCas, E188CC/7308s, 6922/E88CCs and 6DJ8/ECC88/PCC88s, I have found that this is true as the amount of "air" tends to decrease as you go up the hierarchy of the ECC88 family. 
  For me, I have thus found that tubes with plenty of "air" tend to sound the most veiled to my ears.
  I do like tubes to generate "air" but not too much since the tradeoff would be less resolution (or more sonic veil), so my favourite tubes are never at either of the extreme end of the ECC88 family.
  IMHO, YMMV.....


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Lord Soth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


 
   
  The sense of air and ambience could be due to microphonics but I also think treble extension plays a part. Not sure how veil could be synonymous with air though. I attribute air with space, depth, width, coherence of soundstage, and separation of elements. It allows for a more transparent presentation that accentuates imaging, not an opaque, less resolving blob.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> The sense of air and ambience could be due to microphonics but I also think treble extension plays a part. *Not sure how veil could be synonymous with air though*. I attribute air with space, depth, width, coherence of soundstage, and separation of elements. It allows for a more transparent presentation that accentuates imaging, not an opaque, less resolving blob.


 
  I think he means that since the air in this case is attributed to microphonics, it's also accompanied by a slurring effect from microphonic distortion.  Air provided by a driver comes in the form of treble, space, separation, etc.  But I think he's referring specifically to "air" created by the presentation of microphonic tubes.  I.E. distortion.


----------



## olor1n

Then we're talking about different things.


----------



## Lord Soth

My definition of "air" comes from the nuforce audio guide.
   
http://www.nuforce.com/hp/docs/audiophileguide.pdf
   
  "
  [size=xx-small][size=xx-small]The audiophile will often speak glowingly of a perception of air, which is to say, a sense of the music’s[/size][/size]
  [size=xx-small][size=xx-small]occupation of a nicely defined, unfettered space. However, as an aspect of coloration, excessive air often has to do[/size][/size]
  [size=xx-small][size=xx-small]with exaggerated highs and –– surprisingly –– distortion. An accurate audio system portrays ambiance as a property[/size][/size]
  [size=xx-small][size=xx-small]of the recording rather than of itself, dealing forthrightly with what the software sends its way."[/size][/size]


----------



## olor1n

That definition is hinged on extremes. If the distortion resulted in fake ambiance and presented a false sense of space (beyond what's in the recording) I certainly would not be using terms such as transparent/cohesive/realistic to describe what I heard with the BBs and HD800.


----------



## paradoxper

I guess nobody really knows what the markings on these tubes (specifically Lorenz) mean.


----------



## Lord Soth

I believe we are quibbling over a non-issue.
  "air" is a subjective audio concept which could be, like anything else in life, be viewed as either a positive or negative or even a neutral construct.
   
  The BB tubes did acquire quite a reputation really way back and were backed by many audiophiles.
  The "air" from BB tubes could be just right in your audio chain but to me, it could be interpreted as an excessive form of distortion.
   
  Peace!


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I guess nobody really knows what the markings on these tubes (specifically Lorenz) mean.


 
   
  I just caught Prometheus at my local cinema today.
   
  For all we know, those symbols might be hieroglyphs left behind by "Alien" engineers..........


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


lord soth said:


> I believe we are quibbling over a non-issue.
> *"air" is a subjective audio concept which could be, like anything else in life, be viewed as either a positive or negative or even a neutral construct.*
> 
> The BB tubes did acquire quite a reputation really way back and were backed by many audiophiles.
> ...


 
  That's a rather "ionic" postion to take, isn't it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## SeaHawk

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> That's a rather "ionic" postion to take, isn't it?
> 
> 
> ...


 

 *MOAN*


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> That's a rather "ionic" postion to take, isn't it?
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Is it time to promote the new Ionic Tube Containment Bubble Domes from iemcrazy4audio.com already?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Is it time to promote the new Ionic Tube Containment Bubble Domes from iemcrazy4audio.com already?


 
  LOL! your product line is never ending!


----------



## kozmo

So, back to talking about tubes for the Lyr, I just got home from work to find a package from Chris at Parts Connexion.  I purchased a matched pair of Philips JAN 6922/E88CC that have been Pearl Cryo treated and tested, I guess they were originally intended for Magnum Dynalab.  FYI – all tubes at pcX are currently 25% off, though someone else got to all the 7308/E188CC’s before me.
   
  Initial impressions right out of the box are quite positive, they sound great and are absolutely dead quiet and I imagine they’ll only get better with time. Unfortunately for me I’m just on my way out on a trip and won’t get back to them for while.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> I believe we are quibbling over a non-issue.
> "air" is a subjective audio concept which could be, like anything else in life, be viewed as either a positive or negative or even a neutral construct.
> 
> The BB tubes did acquire quite a reputation really way back and were backed by many audiophiles.
> ...


 
   
  Semantics: fuelling forums since the dawn of Time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Edit: Nvm. I no longer have the Lyr so I'm out. Enjoy the rolling guys!


----------



## ckc527

Hi, do we have any Bifrost + Lyr tube roller here with both the he-500 and he-6 ?
Would like to get your feedback on which tube you like most with each of them and if you think the he-6 is a better can for tube rolling since it's more detailed and revealing.

Thanks,
ckc


----------



## Misterrogers

I have that whole chain(s) and I'm happy to share my impressions. First, a comment about the character of each headphone. The HE-500 doesn't throw as wide an image as the HE-6, and tends to be a touch warm. The HE-6 is certainly more neutral and a touch lighter on bass, with a bit of sibilance. So for tubes....

HE-500: Lorenz (PCC88, E88CC), Siemens & Halske (CCA, E88CC, ECC88), 6CG7
HE-6: Siemens & Halske E188CC, Amperex PQ White label, Ediswan CV2392, C6G7

I tend to prefer more neutral tubes with the HE-500 (don't want the sonics too warm), and warmer tubes with the HE-6 (can be a bit lean). The HE-6 is most definitely more revealing, but the HE-500 is no slouch. 



ckc527 said:


> Hi, do we have any Bifrost + Lyr tube roller here with both the he-500 and he-6 ?
> Would like to get your feedback on which tube you like most with each of them and if you think the he-6 is a better can for tube rolling since it's more detailed and revealing.
> Thanks,
> ckc


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


misterrogers said:


> I have that howl chain(s) and I'm happy to share my impressions. First, a comment about the character of each headphone. The HE-500 doesn't throw as wide an image as the HE-6, and tends to be a touch warm. The HE-6 is certainly more neutral and a touch lighter on bass, with a bit of sibilance. So for tubes....
> HE-500: Lorenz (PCC88, E88CC), Siemens & Halske (CCA, E88CC, ECC88), 6CG7
> HE-6: Siemens & Halske E188CC, Amperex PQ White label, Ediswan CV2392, C6G7
> I tend to prefer more neutral tubes with the HE-500 (don't want the sonics too warm), and warmer tubes with the HE-6 (can be a bit lean). The HE-6 is most definitely more revealing, but the HE-500 is no slouch.


 
  Awesome feedback!  Thanks for your impressions!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## weitn

I thinking of getting a pair of PSB Imagine B4 speakers with primary purpose of listening to musics and watching movies in my bedroom. Since I have a Bifrost and a Lyr, can the Lyr SE output power these speakers? Can the RCA output at back of Lyr power these speakers? If yes, do they sounds good? I am new in the speakers stuffs. Any input is appreciated.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





weitn said:


> I thinking of getting a pair of PSB Imagine B4 speakers with primary purpose of listening to musics and watching movies in my bedroom. Since I have a Bifrost and a Lyr, can the Lyr SE output power these speakers? Can the RCA output at back of Lyr power these speakers? If yes, do they sounds good? I am new in the speakers stuffs. Any input is appreciated.


 
   
  Schiit Lyr only works as a headphone amp/preamplifier. A Lyr alone can power active speakers (with in-built amplifiers, inputs for analog interconnects and a power cord so that one does not need speaker cables) such as Emotiva airmotiv 4. However, I believe those PSB Imagine B4 are not active speakers, so you would also need a power amplifier to serve their needs.


----------



## ckc527

misterrogers said:


> I have that howl chain(s) and I'm happy to share my impressions. First, a comment about the character of each headphone. The HE-500 doesn't throw as wide an image as the HE-6, and tends to be a touch warm. The HE-6 is certainly more neutral and a touch lighter on bass, with a bit of sibilance. So for tubes....
> HE-500: Lorenz (PCC88, E88CC), Siemens & Halske (CCA, E88CC, ECC88), 6CG7
> HE-6: Siemens & Halske E188CC, Amperex PQ White label, Ediswan CV2392, C6G7
> I tend to prefer more neutral tubes with the HE-500 (don't want the sonics too warm), and warmer tubes with the HE-6 (can be a bit lean). The HE-6 is most definitely more revealing, but the HE-500 is no slouch.




Great summary. Thanks for your feedback MR.

Do you by chance also own a lcd-3? If you do, can you comment on its characteristics and your prefered tube for it?

Thanks,
ckc


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Schiit Lyr only works as a headphone amp/preamplifier. A Lyr alone can power active speakers (with in-built amplifiers, inputs for analog interconnects and a power cord so that one does not need speaker cables) such as Emotiva airmotiv 4. However, I believe those PSB Imagine B4 are not active speakers, so you would also need a power amplifier to serve their needs.


 
   
  Got it. Thanks for the reply. Did more research online and found out more info. Meaning that I will need a power amp like Musical Fidelity M1PWR or a integrated amplifier like Musical Fidelity M3I (which has a pre-out input) to power the PSB Imagine B4 speakers, right? I will need to connect the pre-out from Lyr to the input of M1PWR or the pre-out input of M3I. These M1PWR and M3I are not cheap, it is either I find a cheaper power amp or integrated amplifier or just get a Emotiva Airmotiv 4.
   
  EDIT: As for the Emotiva Airmotiv 4, should I connect the pre-out from Lyr to the SE input of the Emotiva Airmotiv 4 to get the best sound quality? Or should I connect the RCA output from Bifrost to SE input of the Emotiva Airmotiv 4 to get the best sound quality? My guess would be from Lyr.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





weitn said:


> As for the Emotiva Airmotiv 4, should I connect the pre-out from Lyr to the SE input of the Emotiva Airmotiv 4 to get the best sound quality? Or should I connect the RCA output from Bifrost to SE input of the Emotiva Airmotiv 4 to get the best sound quality? My guess would be from Lyr.


 
   
  Good question. Both ways should work in theory (even the Emotiva offical website tells you to connect these speakers directly to a DAC or a preamp), but you'll have to try it out yourself to know for sure. If the in-built amps within airmotiv 4's can sufficiently drive the speaker units, then cranking it with a high-power preamp such as the Lyr could be overkill and may affect the sound quality in some negative way. On the contrary, maybe these speakers can indeed benefit in SQ from the Lyr, although you'd need another pair of interconnects at your disposal.
   
  One advantage of using the Lyr, though: while you should have three analog volume controls (one for Lyr, and one for each speaker), you can keep the volume knobs of the speakers to the max (or the volume which you think is ideal) and use only the Lyr for volume control at both channels - unless your DAC also has a volume knob, that is. Otherwise, you'll have to turn the knob at the back side of both speakers every time you want to change volume, which can get tedious especially if you want both channels to have the same volume.
   
  Just my two cents, so your mileage may vary.


----------



## shenny

I see you've got a NFB-12, are you plugging the schiit straight into it?


----------



## MickeyVee

Just fishing but what would those be worth / fair asking price?
   
  - Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 Gray Shield 1960s Mint NOS
  - Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 A-frame, dimpled disc getter, PQ label, 1970s
    
  about 30 hours on each set. Thanks! M.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Just fishing but what would those be worth / fair asking price?
> 
> - Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 Gray Shield 1960s Mint NOS
> - Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 A-frame, dimpled disc getter, PQ label, 1970s
> ...


 
  The Lorenz Grey Shield sold at Tubemonger for $50 a tube (Item #1054).  Anything above that really depends on how bad you want them.
  I can't speak for the Amprex tubes though.
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_Gray_Shield_Germany_p/1054.htm
   
  Hope this helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jackiedh

On the LYR which tube is the RIGHT channel the one closest to the front of the amp?
   
  Or does it matter?
   
  Thanks
   
  Jack


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> On the LYR which tube is the RIGHT channel the one closest to the front of the amp?
> 
> Or does it matter?
> 
> ...


 

 The top socket is RIGHT channel. The bottom (closest to the front) socket is LEFT channel.
   
  ckc


----------



## jackiedh

Thank You!!
   
  Jack


----------



## MickeyVee

Hi All,
  Not sure if this is against the rules or not but.. my Lorenz are up for sale.  Not sure what a good price is but I know it's worth more than I paid for.  It's in the classifieds. Selling off to fund a BiFrost. PM me if interested.  ** SOLD **
  Sold my Matrix Mini-i, had to put my DLIII back into my main system so I borrowed an AudioEngine D1 and am using that as my DAC for a while.  I have to admit, I'm really liking the D1 with the stock GE tubes in the Lyr. It's a surprisingly good unit..


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Hi All,
> Not sure if this is against the rules or not but.. my Lorenz are up for sale.  Not sure what a good price is but I know it's worth more than I paid for.  It's in the classifieds. Selling off to fund a BiFrost. PM me if interested.  ** SOLD **
> Sold my Matrix Mini-i, had to put my DLIII back into my main system so I borrowed an AudioEngine D1 and am using that as my DAC for a while.  I have to admit, I'm really liking the D1 with the stock GE tubes in the Lyr. It's a surprisingly good unit..


 

 That was fast! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  You have probably the best roundup of different DACs in a close space to compare the Bifrost to once you get it of most folks here.  You'll have to write a comparison on it!


----------



## MickeyVee

I'm really liking the D1 - will probably purchase it and the A2's for a desktop speaker system. Setup the FiiO E10 into the Lyr.. no go.
  Got the BiFrost covered once  a couple of eBay sales funds are released on the 27th.
   
  Even though the Lorenz are gone (hope you enjoy them JC!), I think I'll be quite happy with the tubes I'll have on hand.. stock GE 6BZ7, Amperex 6DJ8 PQ and Matsu E88CC Mullard Tooling (plus the Russian and JJ which will probably never see the Lyr again)
  Was worried about the GE's after reading about your noise issues.  Mine are dead quiet.  Also, they have the best glow of any tubes I've had in the Lyr. Gotta love the glow!
  Now to just let everything settle and enjoy.  Been quite a journey so far!
   
  Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> That was fast!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I'm really liking the D1 - will probably purchase it and the A2's for a desktop speaker system. Setup the FiiO E10 into the Lyr.. no go.
> Got the BiFrost covered once  a couple of eBay sales funds are released on the 27th.
> 
> Even though the Lorenz are gone (hope you enjoy them JC!), I think I'll be quite happy with the tubes I'll have on hand.. stock GE 6BZ7, Amperex 6DJ8 PQ and Matsu E88CC Mullard Tooling (plus the Russian and JJ which will probably never see the Lyr again)
> ...


 

 The noise issues I have with the GE's isn't persistent.  It's a periodic whining that fades in and out.  High frequency type whining, but seems to be common with them.  They also take longer to warm up IMO.   Though I've had some fading buzz sounds in and out with the Mullards recently in the one amp, but I suspect reseating them will help. I had to reseat the set in the other Lyr that started buzzing like crazy one day.  Popped it back in and it's been fine.  For both of them it seems to be the kind of thing that would be power line noise, except that I don't have the issue on the O2 through the same Bifrost, and tube change does change it.  I suspect it's mostly microphonics from the transformer hum being picked up as subtle vibration if the tube isn't firmly in its socket (mullard) or always (GE.) )   Most of that noise is mostly prominent only in the quiet passages of classical.  Testing with the Denons, though does reveal that while both are too noisy on the Lyr for the Denons, the Mullards have definitively less stray background noise (given sufficiently low impedance loads) than the GEs.
   
  You're right about the glow though...


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Good question. Both ways should work in theory (even the Emotiva offical website tells you to connect these speakers directly to a DAC or a preamp), but you'll have to try it out yourself to know for sure. If the in-built amps within airmotiv 4's can sufficiently drive the speaker units, then cranking it with a high-power preamp such as the Lyr could be overkill and may affect the sound quality in some negative way. On the contrary, maybe these speakers can indeed benefit in SQ from the Lyr, although you'd need another pair of interconnects at your disposal.
> 
> One advantage of using the Lyr, though: while you should have three analog volume controls (one for Lyr, and one for each speaker), you can keep the volume knobs of the speakers to the max (or the volume which you think is ideal) and use only the Lyr for volume control at both channels - unless your DAC also has a volume knob, that is. Otherwise, you'll have to turn the knob at the back side of both speakers every time you want to change volume, which can get tedious especially if you want both channels to have the same volume.
> 
> Just my two cents, so your mileage may vary.


 
   
  Thanks for the info. If I get a pair of Airmotiv 5 speakers, I would set it up this way. Laptop (flac) -> Bifrost -> Lyr -> Airmotiv 5 speakers. They would looks awesome together.
  It looks there is a summer sales for Airmotiv speakers. Airmotiv 5 is $404 after 10% discount which is less than $100 extra compared to the price for Airmotiv 4 after discount. Airmotive 5 used to be price at $599. Then the price dropped to $449. Looks like good deal after 10% summer discount. Airmotiv 5 also has more power than Airmotiv 4. From the review of Airmotiv 5, they sounds really good for near range musics listening. Also great watching movies and playing games due to the sounds quality and wide soundstage.


----------



## paradoxper

So I thought of asking this in the LCD-3 thread. But thought why bother. I've got my LCD-3's and am wondering for those who have/had or even heard them.
  Do ya guys got any tube suggestions? I have Lorenz 2-3 mica as well as Siemens/Siemens & Halske. Just maybe wondering about a tube I've overlooked. Thanks.


----------



## HK_sends

I know this is going to sound silly, but try these:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm
   
  or
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
   
  I was surprised at the bass and treble extension of them.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Congrats on the lcd3 paradoxper, that's at the top of my headphone want list. I was curios if you have the GE clear tops how the combo fairs. The extended treble over the lcd2 might make it a good pairing


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I know this is going to sound silly, but try these:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm
> 
> ...


 
  Ah, you are crazy! hahaa
   
  I am reluctant on those but I asked for some recommendations and I will take you up on it. Hope those are still on Tubemonger. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And thank you!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Congrats on the lcd3 paradoxper, that's at the top of my headphone want list. I was curios if you have the GE clear tops how the combo fairs. The extended treble over the lcd2 might make it a good pairing


 
  Thanks Daly. I actually have the RCA clear tops as well as black plates. So I'm not going to comment on how I think the GE's may sound.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ah, you are crazy! hahaa
> 
> I am reluctant on those but I asked for som recommendations and I will take you up on it. Hope those are still on Tubemonger.
> 
> ...


 
  They are...I checked when I copied the links...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> They are...I checked when I copied the links...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Well, you never know with all these scavengers around.


----------



## SursumCorda

I asked this question in the T1 thread and was directed here. I poked around a bit, but didn't see an immediate answer (perhaps it's buried on page 143... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) so I'm going to mine y'all'ns expertise for a second. 
   
  I have a T1 connected to the Lyr using GE 6BZ7 NOS tubes.
  However, there is some sibilance with certain songs when the singer (particularly female vocals) sing something with an S...
  I'm thinking about getting a pair of tubes that has good highs but brings down the peakyness I'm getting out of my T1s.
  Any suggestions?
   
  (I'm aware it could also be poor recordings that are causing this to a certain degree. Lossy apple files do this more than 24bit flacs...)


----------



## Nerolucido

Hi, I've bought this one on ebay and I was wondering if its the real thing: 

Wish I could provide more pics but all I have is a awful HTC HD2 that makes very blurry and unnatural photos.
This tube has the Brown Lorenz logo, the "Made in germany" print on the other side, grey shields.
It came as is, with no warranty, I don't even know whether is working or not: if I were to try, should I pair it with another PCC88/7dj8 tube or even a normal 6dj8 (like the Mullards E88CC) should do?
I'm sure you can help me autenticate it.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

paradoxper said:


> Thanks Daly. I actually have the RCA clear tops as well as black plates. So I'm not going to comment on how I think the GE's may sound.




I'm just speculating, would like to hear your thoughts if you get some time with them.

Nerolucido,the build looks like the Lorenz's I have. Only difference is mine don't have the three dots next to the "p". Lord soth might be more familiar with that marking


----------



## Nerolucido

dailydoseofdaly said:


> I'm just speculating, would like to hear your thoughts if you get some time with them.
> Nerolucido,the build looks like the Lorenz's I have. Only difference is mine don't have the three dots next to the "p". Lord soth might be more familiar with that marking



Thanks Daly. Next to the black dots there's a "WP" writing in black, overlapping the first two white letters.
And, paradoxper, what about the blackplates you've got? How do they fare against the clear tops?


----------



## IEMCrazy

I did a bit of rolling yesterday with the arrival of a few sets of my new tubes.  Tungsram PCC88 and National PCC88.  Testing was fairly brief, and all testing was done on AKG K702s.  It was a convenient ABX with two Lyrs, one with my beloved Mullard CV2392s, the other with the the "testing" tubes, each with their own pair of AKGs.  The part I don't get is that in the end I may have found, at least for K702, I may actually like _both_ better than the Mullards.  But I haven't tried them on the real heavyweight can of the mix the HD650 yet, which I know really sings with the Mullards and makes up nearly all of my non-Classical (HE-400 & K702) non-Electronic (D5k) listening.  The Mullards are well burned in while the others are new out of the box though.  I found the Nationals were a bit Mullard like, as is to be expected from the Mullard tooling, but they were a little more syrupy, and I swear had a bigger soundstage.  They have a really nice organic texture to them, though the lush mids of the Mullards are less present.  They may have a softer upper-midrange, though which is a nice EQ for K702 but I'm not sure how that'll work with the 650s. 
   
  The Tungsrams in comparison to the Nationals and Mullards seem to be bass-shy and far brighter.  The big midbass presence the others show seems to be missing, though the sub-bass still seems as present as ever and possibly tighter.  But the feeling of bottom weight is almost gone and is replaced by a brighter but very fast top end.  Despite that K70x is very fatiguing normally to me, there was something addictive about that combination even though I should like the drippier Mullards and Nationals better for those.
   
  The GE 6BZ7's in contrast are better than I remembered them actually.  A bit more sterile and SS like, but very neutral and still with a hint of tube smoothness that the SS can't match.  The GE's make for an SS amp with a bit of tube rounding to take off the digital edge.  The others make for tube sound with a hint of SS clarity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  For now though the Mullards are back in since they've become my main tube. I may rotate between the three periodically.  Maybe change up my sound with the seasons or something like that.  Maybe I'll try some Amperex or Telefunken in the future.  But that makes a pretty nice collection already for periodic sound changes. Of course that still depends on tube lifespan 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
> 
> I was surprised at the bass and treble extension of them.


 
   
  What's crazy about the Tungsrams?  They're nice tubes.  I agree about the treble and bass extension of them, but do feel they're bass shy overall compared to the other two warmer tubes I tried.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I'm just speculating, would like to hear your thoughts if you get some time with them.
> Nerolucido,the build looks like the Lorenz's I have. Only difference is mine don't have the three dots next to the "p". Lord soth might be more familiar with that marking


 
  Would you like to know what I think about the RCA clear tops then?
   
  Lord Soth doesn't know about those markings. I've already asked. Mrrogers too, but he did say he would look into it. I know he's busy though. 
  He needs to get a picture of the getter for a better look.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





nerolucido said:


> paradoxper, what about the blackplates you've got? How do they fare against the clear tops?


 
  All I will say is I feel there IMO both were hyped too much. In regards to comparisons to CCa's and Lorenz.
  I disagree with the clear tops or the black plates coming very close to their performance. But we all have differing opinions
  which is great, take all of our views with a grain of salt. The clear tops had the recessed highs that bothered me very much as well as lack of bass (severely) I wouldn't say they are so terrible, 
  but that they're not my cup of tea.
   
  The black plates are much better to my ears. They've in fact replaced my beloved Mullard CV2393's as the everyday tube. I still haven't spent too much time with them, so I'll save the depth of details for later. IMO they are a very nice tube though, and they do not suffer from
  from the recessed highs, or missing bass. So far the only thing about them is they're just a tiny bit noisy, but only when music isn't playing.


----------



## Nerolucido

paradoxper said:


> Would you like to know what I think about the RCA clear tops then?
> 
> Lord Soth doesn't know about those markings. I've already asked. Mrrogers too, but he did say he would look into it. I know he's busy though.
> He needs to get a picture of the getter for a better look.



Thanks for your input. 
As far as I can see, the getter over here is "O" shaped. I'll try to get a picture later, don't expect it to be meaningful though.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





nerolucido said:


> Thanks for your input.
> As far as I can see, the getter over here is "O" shaped. I'll try to get a picture later, don't expect it to be meaningful though.


 
  Then you've most likely got a 3-mica.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

paradoxper said:


> All I will say is I feel there IMO both were hyped too much. In regards to comparisons to CCa's and Lorenz.
> I disagree with the clear tops or the black plates coming very close to their performance. But we all have differing opinions
> which is great, take all of our views with a grain of salt. The clear tops had the recessed highs that bothered me very much as well as lack of bass (severely) I wouldn't say they are so terrible,
> but that they're not my cup of tea.
> ...




Thanks for the impression, guess I'll have to hunt down a black plate


----------



## shaunybaby

how do you think these will do compared to the stock tubes?


----------



## wired

Can you share some recommended source for Lyr tubes? Thanks.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

wired said:


> Can you share some recommended source for Lyr tubes? Thanks.




I've gotten mine from tubemonger, upscale audio, audiogon, eBay, and some of the best deals I've found are right here in the for sale section


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I've gotten mine from tubemonger, upscale audio, audiogon, eBay, and some of the best deals I've found are right here in the for sale section


 
  x2


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Thanks for the impression, guess I'll have to hunt down a black plate


 
  I just got a pair from Brent Jesse-matched pair,excellent SQ ..NOS
  here is the link:
   
http://www.audiotubes.com/audtube.htm
   
  Scroll down on the left side until you see-6CG7 USA NOS Blackplates.
  Brent holds these in high regard,and of course comes, with his money back warranty


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mikek200 said:


> I just got a pair from Brent Jesse-matched pair,excellent SQ ..NOS
> here is the link:
> 
> http://www.audiotubes.com/audtube.htm
> ...




Thanks mike, might have to pick up a pair


----------



## wired

Thansk guys! Appreciate it


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





wired said:


> Thansk guys! Appreciate it


 
  Now ya gotta tell us what tubes you're looking at picking up.


----------



## wired

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Now ya gotta tell us what tubes you're looking at picking up.


 
  sure thing


----------



## songmic

Lo and behold, the Gold Aero 7308 Gold Series. Gold Aero was an American company that gathered rare, vintage NOS tubes from around the world, paired them by measuring and tight matching, and relabelled them as Gold Series. Apparently there's also the Silver Series, which are relatively newer tubes made in Russia and therefore cheaper. The pair I have are originally Amperex 7308 SQ, made in Holland during the 60's. Not only do they sound superb (I actually preferred these to German-made Lorenz PCC88 trimicas), they are the most beautiful tubes of the 6DJ8 family I've ever seen.


----------



## Misterrogers

Nice to see you still rocking the Gold Aero's Song


----------



## Lee Harvey

I ordered a pair of used Mullard ECC88's from Parts Connection and they arrived today.  I just got through cleaning and polishing the pins and have inserted them into the Lyr.  Wow!  I noticed a more open high end right off the bat.  I will have to spend a few hours with these to settle in to form an opinion.  But the first 5 minutes are impressive.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> After 20 hours, my first impressions of the RCA 6CG7 tubes (with side halo getter) are pretty much what Dailydoseofdaly and Misterrogers said...excellent bass extension that remains tight all the way down.  Warm, lush low end, mids, and highs.  No real exaggeration in any of the frequencies but a bit of rolloff in the highs.  Not recessed, but not upfront either.  "Buttery", maybe?  All I know is the music has a fullness as if you are getting the resonance of the wood in the stringed instruments and not just the sound of the string itself.  I am really liking this tube!  My favorite tracks of Alan Parsons Project "Eye in the Sky" are 1 and 2, "Sirius" and "Eye in the Sky" and bass from the synthesizers was there!  "Red Wine" from Fresh Aire IV sounds so organic, it gives me goosebumps...
> 
> So, not too bad overall...
> 
> ...


 
   
  I bought RCA Clear Top made Zenith relabeld 6CG7/6FQ7 with Halo Side Getters & Grey Plates and agree with your impressions. I have a pair of 60s Siemens & Halske E188CC. And this RCA Clear tops are close to the S&H. The bass has very good extension and is tight. All in all a lot better than stock tubes and the 6H23P-EV. The tonality is special with these tubes. It has a bit of a romatic character. Either you like it or not.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Alright bought a pair of 6cg7 black plates from Brent Jessee today. Can't wait to check them out, I'll hit up some impressions when they come in. Thanks again Mike for the heads up. They still have 2 pair left btw


----------



## mikek200

Your Welcome,and,your going to love-em...what headphones are you using???
   
  Out of all the rca's I ordered on e-bay...Jesse's were/are the best sounding...NOS..beautiful.
  I do prefer the blackplates ,over the side getters..seems to have a slight edge with a, deeper bass???..just a question of taste..
   
  I got bashed for pushing these tubes..from some members, of the lorenz snobo group,{shall remain nameless }..but I still stand by my claims.
  My ears & I ,know what we like...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Your Welcome,and,your going to love-em...what headphones are you using???
> 
> Out of all the rca's I ordered on e-bay...Jesse's were/are the best sounding...NOS..beautiful.
> I do prefer the blackplates ,over the side getters..seems to have a slight edge with a, deeper bass???..just a question of taste..
> ...


 
  They'd be "ok" if only they were cryo'ed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The black plates I also prefer over the side getters, I got some weird horseshoe getter which I am still undecided about.
  but idk Mike are ya sure your ears aren't full of wax or crap?


----------



## mikek200

Gee,why I'm not surprised.......I knew you'd be throwing your .02cents in...LOL
  Where you flying over my computer, as I responded.??
   
"ya sure your ears aren't full of wax or crap?"-I have a feeling it might be both ..or..cryo'ed wax/crap..{only available in NYC}.
   
I have a pair of these horseshoe tubes-I'll send them down to you,and,no,they are not cryo'ed.
   
Let me know...,but,Jesse's are better!!!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mikek200 said:


> Your Welcome,and,your going to love-em...what headphones are you using???
> 
> Out of all the rca's I ordered on e-bay...Jesse's were/are the best sounding...NOS..beautiful.
> I do prefer the blackplates ,over the side getters..seems to have a slight edge with a, deeper bass???..just a question of taste..
> ...




I'm using them mainly with my lcd2s and the k701 gets a little time in there too. I dig the clear tops with both so I have high hopes for the blackplates.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Gee,why I'm not surprised.......I knew you'd be throwing your .02cents in...LOL
> Where you flying over my computer, as I responded.??
> 
> "ya sure your ears aren't full of wax or crap?"-I have a feeling it might be both ..or..cryo'ed wax/crap..{only available in NYC}.
> ...


 
  Problem? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Soo what...I've always got an eye out...
   
  I have a pair of the horseshoe tubes but don't know much about them. I will say I don't really favor their sound.
  They are more in the clear tops kind of alley.


----------



## mikek200

No Problem Ever.......
   
  These tubes were all over e-bay ,at unbelievable low prices,so,I ended up picking up many pairs,just to do a comparison.
  Should have thrown my money out the window..it would have been easier....again,Jesse;s are the best..imho.....,NOS


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> No Problem Ever.......
> 
> These tubes were all over e-bay ,at unbelievable low prices,so,I ended up picking up many pairs,just to do a comparison.
> Should have thrown my money out the window..it would have been easier....again,Jesse;s are the best..imho.....,NOS


 
  I was watching as you bought your horeshoe's on eBay on your computer. So I got the same pair as you. 
  Agreed they aren't very good


----------



## MrScary

Nothing new I see acceptI have a new nick name hahaha "Mr Skull and bones" via Lorth Sloth or whtever..actually that is a truth because my name is derived from someone that plays a skull and bones guitar..
  Nothing new I see..  chasing Lorenz.. Ohhh and I like these RCA tubbbbyyys... They sound great especially if you add in a BBE sonic maximizer but even alone they are better than the average..
   
  OK back to sleep..


----------



## mikiphile

Currently Im rolling between 2 sets: CV2492 Mullard and E88CC Tesla. 
   
  I kinda prefer the Mullards for my K701 since they are slightly warmer and have significantly better and deeper bass. The vocals are truly better, especially the female, though I cant really decide on the male (it differs with the headphone) 
   
  Since you guys are into this quite a lot, you probably have an idea which tubes could do EVEN better with the AKG K70Xs?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Nothing new I see acceptI have a new nick name hahaha "Mr Skull and bones" via Lorth Sloth or whtever..actually that is a truth because my name is derived from someone that plays a skull and bones guitar..
> Nothing new I see..  chasing Lorenz.. Ohhh and I like these RCA tubbbbyyys... They sound great especially if you add in a BBE sonic maximizer but even alone they are better than the average..
> 
> OK back to sleep..


 
   
  I've seen the BBE maximizer mentioned but I can never figure out exactly what it is.  Is it basically just a single tone DSP?  Also, don't they only come balanced?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mikiphile said:


> Currently Im rolling between 2 sets: CV2492 Mullard and E88CC Tesla.
> 
> I kinda prefer the Mullards for my K701 since they are slightly warmer and have significantly better and deeper bass. The vocals are truly better, especially the female, though I cant really decide on the male (it differs with the headphone)
> 
> Since you guys are into this quite a lot, you probably have an idea which tubes could do EVEN better with the AKG K70Xs?




My favs for the k701 that are not difficult to find are the 6cg7 rca clear tops (best combo to me) and matsu****a nationals from tubemonger are my second favorite for the k701.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

iemcrazy said:


> I've seen the BBE maximizer mentioned but I can never figure out exactly what it is.  Is it basically just a single tone DSP?  Also, don't they only come balanced?




I use to have one for my guitar it's more of an eq with a low freq boost. Drop d with thick distortion and the sonic maximizer is nasty, sounds like it could take the house down. I don't think it has a balanced i/o, probably just se for instruments


Edit.
BBE did come out with a balanced model called the 882


----------



## Rope




----------



## AppleDappleman

Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm selling a bunch of tubes here 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/616891/6922-tubes-great-for-lyr


----------



## WesternE

This is why friends don't let friends use 6n1p's in a Lyr. Notice the non-linear operating point. Also note the heater transformer drops down to 5.7VAC min spec is 6. All in all pick this tube for the guitar amp distortion effect, its not optimal.


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> The rest of you Lyr owners: Come on.
> 
> Let´s make this thread a knowledge base.


 
   
  This place is a great knowledge base.. thanks for everything guys.
   
  However, here comes the annoying guy again. I have the Lyr for some time, and im looking to tackle a new purchase (headphone).
   
  I am very interested in the HE-500s.
   
  I have been reading about them a lot, and I have a feeling that I might like them. I would really like to know what are your experiences (if there are any, i found only a few post in this thread about them) with them.. especially in the matter of tube rolling.
   
  I have noticed that the Lyr can be rather veil at times, believe it or not, even veil for my K701. (I use the CV2492 Mullard).
   
  I like revealing headphones.. but I also want some musicality. I hope that the HE-500s can deliver that and I hope there is a specific tube that will allow for that.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> This place is a great knowledge base.. thanks for everything guys.
> 
> However, here comes the annoying guy again. I have the Lyr for some time, and im looking to tackle a new purchase (headphone).
> 
> ...


 
  If you're feeling there is a veil perhaps you should try out some Siemen CCa, Telefunken or Lorenz. I didn't care much for the CV2492 Mullards,
  but we all have our preferences.
   
  I had the HE-500 on loan for a few months, I also had the HE-6. IMO the HE-500 is a great headphone, it's on par with the Audeze line.
  And felt more balanced than the HE-6. It's a warm lush headphone with plenty of detail, good mids and balanced treble.
  Has good and wide soundstage better than LCD-2 to my ears. Bass is pretty good, though not as good or natural/realistic as LCD-2.
  What I enjoyed the most about the HE-500 was how good the mids were, I found them to sound natural, detailed and clear.
  While being balanced in the treble area I still found them to brighter than I like. So I did not keep them.(Not too much not to like about that headphone.)
   
  Many people have compared them to the HD600 for its slightly neutral but warm-ish sound.
  Depending on your preferences they could be a great can for you. I'd also recommend looking at the HE-400


----------



## Carlsan

Has anyone tried ECC189 tubes with their Lyr?
   
  Found a site selling them fairly inexpensively http://www.nostubestore.com/search?updated-max=2012-01-28T03:22:00%2B02:00&max-results=10&reverse-paginate=true
   
  Miniwatt's from Holland and Mullards from the UK.
   
   
  Quote: 





> *MINIWATT DARIO ECC189 Holland*
> Made in 1971 by Heerlen/Holland factory of Philips. All tubes are in pristine condition and have same factory codes. These are A-Frame Dimpled Drum Getter type.
> The ECC189 was designed for VHF tuner intputs in TV sets as PCC/ECC189*,* used briefly in the early 1960s in Europe. Contrary to what is said by some e-auction sellers this is NOT an exact drop-in replacement for ECC88/6922 family tubes because of its variable mu. But it is still risk-free, pin compatible alternative to ECC88/6922 tubes especially in small signal levels and with a different sound. It will perfectly serve as cathode follower as well.
> Interesting tube for DIY'ers, manufacturers and those who want to experiment. Matched pairs available.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Nothing new I see acceptI have a new nick name hahaha "Mr Skull and bones" via Lorth Sloth or whtever..actually that is a truth because my name is derived from someone that plays a skull and bones guitar..
> Nothing new I see..  chasing Lorenz.. Ohhh and I like these RCA tubbbbyyys... They sound great especially if you add in a BBE sonic maximizer but even alone they are better than the average..
> 
> OK back to sleep..


 
  Lord *Sloth*? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Now it's *my turn* to go to sleep!


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Has anyone tried ECC189 tubes with their Lyr?
> 
> Found a site selling them fairly inexpensively http://www.nostubestore.com/search?updated-max=2012-01-28T03:22:00%2B02:00&max-results=10&reverse-paginate=true
> 
> Miniwatt's from Holland and Mullards from the UK.


 
   
  ECC189. I have not played with those tubes per se because their variable mu nature is really dicey.
   
  Based on theory, there is a certain range whereby the ECC189 tube exhibits linear sonic qualities.
  This is highly dependent on the tube amp.
   
  If you know the exact B+ voltage for the Schitt Lyr, in theory, one can then check the ECC189 datasheet and then decide.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

After many months of saying I don't need it and never hitting the button, I finally pulled the trigger on a shiny new Lyr to sit atop my bifrost. I see theres a ton of good information on tubes in this thread. I'm using both the prehistoric (now) HE-5 and sony SA-5000. I'm looking for the best possible tubes I can get. My major concern is soundstage and warmth. Which sets of tubes will give me unbelievable soundstage without being too bright for my already bright cans? thanks


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





uncle00jesse said:


> After many months of saying I don't need it and never hitting the button, I finally pulled the trigger on a shiny new Lyr to sit atop my bifrost. I see theres a ton of good information on tubes in this thread. I'm using both the prehistoric (now) HE-5 and sony SA-5000. I'm looking for the best possible tubes I can get. My major concern is soundstage and warmth. Which sets of tubes will give me unbelievable soundstage without being too bright for my already bright cans? thanks


 
  I have went through about 20 matched sets so far and the  best sound stage and just liquid sounding affordable tubes to my ears so far are the [size=x-small]Siemens 6DJ8[/size] and /or the [size=x-small]Lorenz PCC 88. The Siemens sound stage is just fantastic.[/size]


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> I have went through about 20 matched sets so far and the  best sound stage and just liquid sounding affordable tubes to my ears so far are the [size=x-small]Siemens 6DJ8[/size] and /or the [size=x-small]Lorenz PCC 88. The Siemens sound stage is just fantastic.[/size]


 
  That seems to be the "general consensus" around these parts. Have you tried any of the clear tops or black plates? Many rollers seem to liken them to Siemens and Lorenz.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Big day Siemens & Halske pcc88 3mica and the 6cg7 black plates came in today, impressions soon.
Mikek what are you black plates branded?

Here's a fact i found researching tubes today that you may or may not find interesting. The 6cg7 is electrically equivalent to the 6sn7, the difference being the 6cg7 has a 9-pin miniature base, verses the 6sn7's 8-pin octal base


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I've seen the BBE maximizer mentioned but I can never figure out exactly what it is.  Is it basically just a single tone DSP?  Also, don't they only come balanced?


 
  BBE makes many products they have everything from plugins for recording to simple guitar effects with one know the Harmonic maximizer is surely the best of them all they typically have XLR and unbalanced 1/4 inputs that allows you to do just about anything with them
  the old ones were just for boosting bass but thats not really all it does.. It's hard to explain the theory behind it is complex the Hamonic maximizer is a countouring device not the same as an EQ per se if thats all it did I would use my EQ... It's a very addictive sound
  for example I use it usually for MP3's or just everyday use on the PC for youtube etc its in my chain somwhere now haha... If I listen to lets say a song it in some ways makes it sound as if you are listening live.. But not a simulated live it gives the music a life weird stuff..
  I do not use it for the guitar but have if I do use it I will use their plugins when I record things after the mix is done more for mastering but typically I do not. I can tell you this is literally has the ability to make a 100.00 set of tubes sound like 300.00 I do not condone or condemn its
  use it is a tool in my arsenal just as is switching out a set of tubes.. You can get a harmonic maximizer for less than 200.00 on Ebay and wake your world up.. Its kinda like having the Red Pill shoved down your throat.... you kinda  are shocked at what you hear same
  as when you put some good Lorenz in vs some JJ's 
   
  being a part time Audio Engineer I really can only say give it a whirl but the only one that is worth a shiiiiiit is the "Harmonic maximizer" as you can contour anything the others were old stuff limiting..


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> This place is a great knowledge base.. thanks for everything guys.
> 
> However, here comes the annoying guy again. I have the Lyr for some time, and im looking to tackle a new purchase (headphone).
> 
> ...


 

 It's all in the tubes man


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> This place is a great knowledge base.. thanks for everything guys.
> 
> However, here comes the annoying guy again. I have the Lyr for some time, and im looking to tackle a new purchase (headphone).
> 
> ...


 

 As paradoxer said before you need to get some tubes that balance out the warmish sound if you put Mullards in there you will have a mishmash of warmness of some kind... every piece in your chain that is changed makes the sum of the total I wish that their was an easier way but with audio since we each perceive differently on many aspects do not forget the rest of your chain I myself try to say as neutral as possible but I have multiple Dac's etc so I can change things in a flash and tubes I like to keep it at those two points eveyrthnig else I leave alone... well sometimes hahaha


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> BBE makes many products they have everything from plugins for recording to simple guitar effects with one know the Harmonic maximizer is surely the best of them all they typically have XLR and unbalanced 1/4 inputs that allows you to do just about anything with them
> the old ones were just for boosting bass but thats not really all it does.. It's hard to explain the theory behind it is complex the Hamonic maximizer is a countouring device not the same as an EQ per se if thats all it did I would use my EQ... It's a very addictive sound
> for example I use it usually for MP3's or just everyday use on the PC for youtube etc its in my chain somwhere now haha... If I listen to lets say a song it in some ways makes it sound as if you are listening live.. But not a simulated live it gives the music a life weird stuff..
> I do not use it for the guitar but have if I do use it I will use their plugins when I record things after the mix is done more for mastering but typically I do not. I can tell you this is literally has the ability to make a 100.00 set of tubes sound like 300.00 I do not condone or condemn its
> ...


 
  So out of curiosity does the Harmonic maximizer basically put harmonics there that aren't? And how does this work
  (PM me if it's a long story) And what is the difference between their Harmonic maximizer and their sonic maximizer?
  And finally I can understand the use for professional audio mixing/mastering, but what about just general everyday playback.
  I'm just kind of interested in buying one to see what it can do, but want some sort of value out of it.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> That seems to be the "general consensus" around these parts. Have you tried any of the clear tops or black plates? Many rollers seem to liken them to Siemens and Lorenz.


 
  I have do have the RCA clear tops, they sound great but I have yet to top the Siemens to my ears. I have not tried the black plates, please suggest one to me.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> I have do have the RCA clear tops, they sound great but I have yet to top the Siemens to my ears. I have not tried the black plates, please suggest one to me.


 
  Ah, alright then. I would really rather not. I am not one who compared either the black plates nor clear tops to the Siemens or Lorenz. Though I'll say
  the black plates got close to the Siemens, but I am just opposite of you. I'm a Lorenz snob and don't think anything touch it.
   
   
  Last I heard ( few weeks ago now) Brent Jesse had some: http://www.audiotubes.com/


----------



## Fearless1

Well since I have now actually posted on this thread ( been lurking for a while), I have a question.   Can anyone tell me anything about this particular Amperex set? I assume they are newer based on the silk screen. Are they fake?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Well since I have now actually posted on this thread ( been lurking for a while), I have a question.   Can anyone tell me anything about this particular Amperex set? I assume they are newer based on the silk screen. Are they fake?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  Not a huge fan of Ameperex, so I'm no expert. But you may need to shows pics of the getters. Unless of course, the tube wizard catches a glimpse first.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Not a huge fan of Ameperex, so I'm no expert. But you may need to shows pics of the getters. Unless of course, the tube wizard catches a glimpse first.


 
  I feel the same as you. My only other experience is with the Bugle Boys and that was with another application (12ax7 versions).  They had a pleasant sound, but not right for my ears. The  pictured tubes actually sound  quite good but I am getting a scratchy sound from one of them.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ah, alright then. I would really rather not. I am not one who compared either the black plates nor clear tops to the Siemens or Lorenz. Though I'll say
> the black plates got close to the Siemens, but I am just opposite of you. I'm a Lorenz snob and don't think anything touch it.
> 
> 
> Last I heard ( few weeks ago now) Brent Jesse had some: http://www.audiotubes.com/


 
  +1 on what Paradoxper says.
  you will find the blackplates here:
http://www.audiotubes.com/audtube.htm
   
  Scroll down the left side,until you find 6CG7..blackplates
  He might be out of them ,best to call first


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> I feel the same as you. My only other experience is with the Bugle Boys and that was with another application (12ax7 versions).  They had a pleasant sound, but not right for my ears. The  pictured tubes actually sound  quite good but I am getting a scratchy sound from one of them.


 
  Yea, the Bugle Boys are pretty good. I haven't ever seen your particular screen print. Searching yielded nothing. So I am lost.
  Have you heard any of Amperex PQ's for some relavent reference?


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> +1 on what Paradoxper says.
> you will find the blackplates here:
> http://www.audiotubes.com/audtube.htm
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thank you. I found them from the local source I use for tubes. One quick question if I may, top O getter or horseshoe getter?
   
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Yea, the Bugle Boys are pretty good. I haven't ever seen your particular screen print. Searching yielded nothing. So I am lost.
> Have you heard any of Amperex PQ's for some relavent reference?


 
  Yes i have a set of the PQ 6922s (USA) and the orange tipped ones from the photo have a less warm sound but better snap on the bass and highs.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Thank you. I found them from the local source I use for tubes. One quick question if I may, top O getter or horseshoe getter?
> 
> 
> Yes i have a set of the PQ 6922s (USA) and the orange tipped ones from the photo have a less warm sound but better snap on the bass and highs.


 
  I have both getters. I'd opt for the O getter.
   
  Well, then that would solve it for me. Even though I've never seen that particular screen print (Which seems odd to me) if you find them to sound good/better
  than your PQ's that you can use for reference..then trust your ears and enjoy.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> So out of curiosity does the Harmonic maximizer basically put harmonics there that aren't? And how does this work
> (PM me if it's a long story) And what is the difference between their Harmonic maximizer and their sonic maximizer?
> And finally I can understand the use for professional audio mixing/mastering, but what about just general everyday playback.
> I'm just kind of interested in buying one to see what it can do, but want some sort of value out of it.


 
  Yes, it will add even, or odd harmonics where none exist.  You may consider auditioning a harmonic maximizer plug-in before you drop bank on gear.  I find the BBE sonic maximzer more useful (sparingly).
   
 http://www.blitzdownloads.com/search/Harmonic%20Maximizer
   
  *EDIT*
  Aphex also manufacture a sonic maximizer they refer to as an aural exciter.
http://www.aphex.com/aphex-products/exciter/


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> Yes, it will add even, or odd harmonics where none exist.  You may consider auditioning a harmonic maximizer plug-in before you drop bank on gear.  I find the BBE sonic maximzer more useful (sparingly).
> 
> http://www.blitzdownloads.com/search/Harmonic%20Maximizer
> 
> ...


 
  Can you shed some light to how that's done?
   
  I am on a mac so no Harmonic Maximizer available, but the sonic maximizer was. So I may try that out.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Can you shed some light to how that's done?
> 
> I am on a mac so no Harmonic Maximizer available, but the sonic maximizer was. So I may try that out.


 
   The best explanation of harmonics, and how harmonic distortions are introduced into audio is as follows:
   
_"Harmonics of a given note (the "fundamental") are simply whole-number multiples of its frequency. Even harmonics are notes 2 times the "fundamental" frequency, 4 times, 6 times, 8 times etc ad infinitum. Odd harmonic notes are 3 times, 5 times, 7 times the frequency etc. Harmonic distortion is when "phantom notes" are generated by the distortion process that correspond to some of these harmonics. (Bet you didn't know distortion had discrete components like this! Distortion components are related mathematically to the original signal, depending on the nature of the distortion process.) As I showed above, the tube pre-amp's distortion was even harmonics, the analog tape's was odd."_
   
  If you'd like to read the entire explanation, here's a link.


----------



## 4nradio

Quote: 





joeyrusso said:


> Instead of the usual ranting about poor customer service, I thought I'd share a positive experience for a change.
> 
> A while back I ordered two pair of Amperex tubes, a pair of Orange Globes and a pair of Bugle Boys.  The Orange globes were perfect and sounded fantastic.  The Bugle boys unfortunately came with a weird hum.  I contacted the seller (mercedesman6572) on Ebay and he offered to replace them, so off they went.  I received my replacement pair promptly, but unfortunately one of them was making a sizzling, popping sound.  Once again I contacted Ron, and this time, he sent me out two more pair to try and asked me to keep the pair that sounded the best.  Needless to say, I now have a fantastic pair of Bugle Boys in my Lyr and I couldn't be happier.
> 
> So if you happen upon a pair of tubes offered by Ron - mercedesman6572 on Ebay, take comfort in the fact that he won't be satisfied until you are.


 
   
  That's great to hear of your excellent experience with mercedesman6572. Two days ago I also received a pair of NOS Orange Globes (1968) from him. I've alternately been burning them in and listening. They're sounding great, even better than my other pair of the same type which are of 1970s vintage.
   
  Mercedesman6572 shipped very quickly and the tubes were packed well, too. Two thumbs up for this Ebay tube seller!


----------



## perfect-pitch

Hello guys,

if anyone wants to get rid of some Lyr tubes please feel free to shoot me am PM



Cheers


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





4nradio said:


> That's great to hear of your excellent experience with mercedesman6572. Two days ago I also received a pair of NOS Orange Globes (1968) from him. I've alternately been burning them in and listening. They're sounding great, even better than my other pair of the same type which are of 1970s vintage.
> 
> Mercedesman6572 shipped very quickly and the tubes were packed well, too. Two thumbs up for this Ebay tube seller!


 
   
  I've ordered several sets of tubes from him in the last few months, always impressed, not a bad tube in the lot, and always quick shipping.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> So out of curiosity does the Harmonic maximizer basically put harmonics there that aren't? And how does this work
> (PM me if it's a long story) And what is the difference between their Harmonic maximizer and their sonic maximizer?
> And finally I can understand the use for professional audio mixing/mastering, but what about just general everyday playback.
> I'm just kind of interested in buying one to see what it can do, but want some sort of value out of it.


 
  Well I have all the BBE plugins and also the sonic maximizer hardware unit if all I am doing is listening to audio from My PC to one of my many DAC's I just use winamp and the BBE plugins you have to get a VST enabler for winamp so you can use Audio plugins inside of winamp
  this is for just being on the puter listening if I do use the Sonic Maximizer I use it just a tad but it does bring out a whole new world hard to define... On the Hardware side its setup and runs through my Mixing board in a rackmount so I rarely use it but I have on a few recordings typically
  given to me by others that have lower quality equipment I can get a bit more out of it.. Sometimes when I do mixing I run into people that do not realize I cannot mix craaap so I tell them your Master will be better sounding but I cannot make your original signal sound like it was recorded at 96k or 192k
  I always record my own material at 24/96 but most people just have some sound card and use some cheap mixing software and record at 44.1 which is bad for mixing but in those cases I may just use the Harmoic Maximizer or sonic or whatever else I have just about every plugin it just depends..
   
  In your case man I hate to say it but.... Us audio guys 90% don't do Mac's (Reason more software available for Windows and hardware) so I cannot help ya as a Full time Computer Engineer I do not do Mac's either so you are on your own good luck...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well I have all the BBE plugins and also the sonic maximizer hardware unit if all I am doing is listening to audio from My PC to one of my many DAC's I just use winamp and the BBE plugins you have to get a VST enabler for winamp so you can use Audio plugins inside of winamp
> this is for just being on the puter listening if I do use the Sonic Maximizer I use it just a tad but it does bring out a whole new world hard to define... On the Hardware side its setup and runs through my Mixing board in a rackmount so I rarely use it but I have on a few recordings typically
> given to me by others that have lower quality equipment I can get a bit more out of it.. Sometimes when I do mixing I run into people that do not realize I cannot mix craaap so I tell them your Master will be better sounding but I cannot make your original signal sound like it was recorded at 96k or 192k
> I always record my own material at 24/96 but most people just have some sound card and use some cheap mixing software and record at 44.1 which is bad for mixing but in those cases I may just use the Harmoic Maximizer or sonic or whatever else I have just about every plugin it just depends..
> ...


 
  I decided for now to get a stereo graphic EQ. Learn what I'm doing a bit better then I might look into something like BBE's products.


----------



## mikek200

PM sent.....


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Hello guys,
> if anyone wants to get rid of some Lyr tubes please feel free to shoot me am PM
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  PM Sent....


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> PM Sent....


 
  Buh-Buy Lorenz!


----------



## WesternE

fearless1 said:


> Well since I have now actually posted on this thread ( been lurking for a while), I have a question.   Can anyone tell me anything about this particular Amperex set? I assume they are newer based on the silk screen. Are they fake?
> 
> Thanks.



 
 Those look like A frame dimple getter Amperex orange globes. I think they are the all round best bet for 6DJ8's as they can't be counterfeited and being the last generation from Holland they typically can be found in good condition. Holland Amperex is the only way to go with 6DJ8, this tube type is notorious for having more 3H distortion than most tube types and Amperex always seem to measure with less 3H than other brands. Believe me I've tried them all in various amps and preamps, the new stuff sucks, the sovtek is aweful, the 70's Japanese made with the shipped Holland tooling aren't as good either. Old Holland is just the way to go, they invented this tube. See my previous post why you don't want to use the 6n1p in this amp, the operating point is in a very high distortion region. I will try the other russion one, 6n23 and post measurements if anyone is interested. But the situation seems much better than it was 5 years ago as far as finding the older Amperex in good condition. Recently picked up a pair of early 60's Amperex large getter white label (basically same as Bugle boys.) And to my surprise they are silent and gave as much transductance as new. These do sound a bit better than the orange A frame, but it is much riskier finding these that are in good shape. I swear 5 years ago these would have cost 3x as much, seems to be a good time to buy Holland 6DJ8, a big stash must of been released. I think I will pick up a few more pairs before we get another dry spell. All this is a mute point if you don't replace the cheap Wima coupling caps, thy mask the linearity of high quality tubes. Being a cheap retro type I replaced them with Vitamin Q, but there are many many better caps than the stock Wima MK4's. Really this thread should have been preceeded with a cap rolling thread before folks go out and invest expensive tubes only to hook them up to Wima MK4's!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> In your case man I hate to say it but.... Us audio guys 90% don't do Mac's (Reason more software available for Windows and hardware) so I cannot help ya as a Full time Computer Engineer I do not do Mac's either so you are on your own good luck...


 
   
  Glad to hear someone say that.  I'm not sure where all these Mac users came from around the forums.  They popped up overnight and if you go by the crowd here you'd think the whole world uses Macs.  It's kind of a freaky parallel dimension.  Sure there's some shops in the audio world that use Mac, but it's the exception not the rule. 
   
  That still leaves the question, where the heck did all these Mac people come from?


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





westerne said:


> Those look like A frame dimple getter Amperex orange globes. I think they are the all round best bet for 6DJ8's as they can't be counterfeited and being the last generation from Holland they typically can be found in good condition. Holland Amperex is the only way to go with 6DJ8, this tube type is notorious for having more 3H distortion than most tube types and Amperex always seem to measure with less 3H than other brands. Believe me I've tried them all in various amps and preamps, the new stuff sucks, the sovtek is aweful, the 70's Japanese made with the shipped Holland tooling aren't as good either. Old Holland is just the way to go, they invented this tube.See my previous post why you don't want to use the 6n1p in this amp, the operating point is in a very high distortion region. I will try the other russion one, 6n23 and post measurements if anyone is interested.But the situation seems much better than it was 5 years ago as far as finding the older Amperex in good condition. Recently picked up a pair of early 60's Amperex large getter white label (basically same as Bugle boys.) And to my surprise they are silent and gave as much transductance as new. These do sound a bit better than the orange A frame, but it is much riskier finding these that are in good shape. I swear 5 years ago these would have cost 3x as much, seems to be a good time to buy Holland 6DJ8, a big stash must of been released. I think I will pick up a few more pairs before we get another dry spell.All this is a mute point if you don't replace the cheap Wima coupling caps, thy mask the linearity of high quality tubes. Being a cheap retro type I replaced them with Vitamin Q, but there are many many better caps than the stock Wima MK4's.Really this thread should have been preceeded with a cap rolling thread before folks go out and invest expensive tubes only to hook them up to Wima MK4's!


 
  Thanks for the input. They are fantastic sounding, I just got a bad tube and the fellow I bought them from actually has another he is sending me.
   
  I have been on a Lorenz PCC88 kick as of late, the one thing I did not like about them vs the [size=x-small]Siemens 6DJ8[/size] was the sound stage was a bit smaller. I recently invested in a rack mounted  BBE sonic maximizer as suggested in this thread and it just opened up the Lyr's sound stage and the Lorenz tubes just sound unreal. The Amperex tubes are not far behind them though.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Thanks for the input. They are fantastic sounding, I just got a bad tube and the fellow I bought them from actually has another he is sending me.
> 
> I have been on a Lorenz PCC88 kick as of late, the one thing I did not like about them vs the [size=x-small]Siemens 6DJ8[/size] was the sound stage was a bit smaller. I recently invested in a rack mounted  BBE sonic maximizer as suggested in this thread and it just opened up the Lyr's sound stage and the Lorenz tubes just sound unreal. The Amperex tubes are not far behind them though.


 
   
  Isn't something like the Maximizer, basically a DSP/EQ....isn't that sort of shunned among audiophiles?  Wouldn't it have a good chance to negatively degrade the sound?
   
  Also, which BBE is preferred around here? The ganged stereo one (that unfortunately has only 1/4" mono jacks) or the dual channel one that has RCA jacks?
   
  Also, how wide is it compared to the Lyr?


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Isn't something like the Maximizer, basically a DPS/ESQ....isn't that sort of shunned among audiophiles?  Wouldn't it have a good chance to negatively degrade the sound?
> 
> Also, which BB is preferred around here? The ganged stereo one (that unfortunately has only 1/4" mono jacks) or the dual channel one that has RCA jacks?
> 
> Also, how wide is it compared to the Lyra?


 
   
  This is the one I picked up http://www.bbesound.com/products/sonic-maximizers/482i.aspx.  it is a bit like an ESQ, and no It does not degrade the sound. I just put a small adjustment into it and it really broadens the sound stage. It has 1/4"trs in and out and RCA in and out.


----------



## adydula

Sonic maximer is like an equilzer, boosts lows, mids, highs etc....I would NEVER EVER use one....get a good amp, good dac, good source. good cans and enjoy...take a read here:
  http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?1655585-what-does-a-sonic-maximizer-do

 After spending mega buck for those wonderful NOS tubes your telling me I need and equilizer to make them sound more open etc....OMG....a fool and his money are soon parted...
   
  Over and Out
  Alex


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Sonic maximer is like an equilzer, boosts lows, mids, highs etc....I would NEVER EVER use one....get a good amp, good dac, good source. good cans and enjoy...take a read here:
> http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?1655585-what-does-a-sonic-maximizer-do
> 
> After spending mega buck for those wonderful NOS tubes your telling me I need and equilizer to make them sound more open etc....OMG....a fool and his money are soon parted...
> ...


 
  OK, thanks.... I did not suggest to anyone to get one, it is simply a fun little item to play with for a while. It actually does not add that much to the presentation but does in fact widen the sound stage. So essentially I was not telling you anything.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> OK, thanks.... I did not suggest to anyone to get one, it is simply a fun little item to play with for a while. It actually does not add that much to the presentation but does in fact widen the sound stage. So essentially I was not telling you anything.


 
  I've employed a BBE unit for years, and thoroughly  enjoy using it in moderation to further my enjoyment of music.  Make it a priority to listen in a manner that pleases you, not someone else, and don't let snyone tell you that's the wrong way.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Sonic maximer is like an equilzer, boosts lows, mids, highs etc....I would NEVER EVER use one....get a good amp, good dac, good source. good cans and enjoy...take a read here:
> http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?1655585-what-does-a-sonic-maximizer-do
> 
> After spending mega buck for those wonderful NOS tubes your telling me I need and equilizer to make them sound more open etc....OMG....a fool and his money are soon parted...
> ...


 
   
  Reading up about it etc, it still sounds more like a DSP than a straight EQ.   It's major effect other than creating a more u-shaped EQ curve (eeeww), seems to be something that could be quasi-useful, splitting the three major bands and adding time delays to the bass and the mids.  I could see how adding effectively a band-selective reverb type effect could increase the soundstage/presence. 
   
  I'm not sure I'd really buy one (though at $100 new, it's cheap as far as audio toys go), but i can see how it could have some effect that isn't in conflict with the tubes signature.   The EQ of it irks me most...why buy warm/neutral gear to make it u-shaped?
   
  Neat toy...something I'd consider toying with for the right price, but I wouldn't use as my staple gear.   Sounds almost like the effect the DacMagic has with that quasi-reverb huge soundstage.


----------



## adydula

Hey...not trying to rain on anyones parade...I am all for gadgets, "that work'...its your money...but I can show you a simple setup with excellent source material, mic'd and mixed very very well that will make u smile a lot....and then the same setup with poorly recorded and or mixed source and no mater what other magix box u add it still will sound like crap.
   
  I just like the reproduction audio playback chain to be as simple as possible...I hate to see folks spend money on gadgets that really dont add to the experience...
   
  I never use the 'concert hall or jazz club" DSP modes either!!! LOL!
   
  Have fun!
  Alex


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Hey...not trying to rain on anyones parade...I am all for gadgets, "that work'...its your money...but I can show you a simple setup with excellent source material, mic'd and mixed very very well that will make u smile a lot....and then the same setup with poorly recorded and or mixed source and no mater what other magix box u add it still will sound like crap.
> 
> I just like the reproduction audio playback chain to be as simple as possible...I hate to see folks spend money on gadgets that really dont add to the experience...
> 
> ...


 
   If it sounds good to you, that's all that matters.


----------



## wakeride74

Hey y'all... been a while since I've been on headfi but I'm gearing up to order a Bifrost to pair with my Lyr and LCD-2 rev2 and wanted to ask if there was a favorite set of tubes for this combo. I've been using the 1054 Lorenz PCC88 but have not added the bifrost to the chain yet.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

wakeride74 said:


> Hey y'all... been a while since I've been on headfi but I'm gearing up to order a Bifrost to pair with my Lyr and LCD-2 rev2 and wanted to ask if there was a favorite set of tubes for this combo. I've been using the 1054 Lorenz PCC88 but have not added the bifrost to the chain yet.




Heard that exact combo and it sounds great to me. I don't think you will be disappointed


----------



## Meoow

Between Lyr and Valhalla, which one is better for me? Considering I am going to get the Bifrost for sure (Reviews showed that it got a nice flat EQ)
  I want an Amp with a good flat EQ to pair with all of my headphones. I believe that a good flat Amp will bring out the true colours of different brands/heaphones.
   
  My major headphones would be mostly Audio Technica W series (1000x - 3000Anv - 5000) and A900x - Sennheiser HD650 - AKG Q701 (Currently owning)
  Beside those I am getting Hifiman 500 - Denon - Shure and others big and popular brands out there.
   
  If there is any other recommendations, please do consider so
   
http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/ & http://headphones.com.au/ these are what available in my country
   
  Thanks head-fiers


----------



## Rope

I'm using the Bifrost/Lyr combo with AKG K701, HiFiMan HE500, Denon AH-DM5000, and an old set of Senn 595.  I think it's a match made in heaven, although I've never had the opportunity to audition the Valhalla, frankly I have no reason to do so.


----------



## Blackmumba

Quote: 





rope said:


> I'm using the Bifrost/Lyr combo with AKG K701, HiFiMan HE500, Denon AH-DM5000, and an old set of Senn 595.  I think it's a match made in heaven, although I've never had the opportunity to audition the Valhalla, frankly I have no reason to do so.


 
   
  I am using the Lyr with the D7000 and the HD800, smiles for me.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





wakeride74 said:


> Hey y'all... been a while since I've been on headfi but I'm gearing up to order a Bifrost to pair with my Lyr and LCD-2 rev2 and wanted to ask if there was a favorite set of tubes for this combo. I've been using the 1054 Lorenz PCC88 but have not added the bifrost to the chain yet.


 
  I use the lorenz & have the same set up as you...hard to beat.this combo.
  A month or two ago, ,I tested out a pair of Rca 6CG7,clear top...I was really impressed,and if you go back on this thread ,you'll find a few posts about them
  They have gotten mixed reviews,but,for the price,these are a bargain,with good sq,they can be found all over e-bay,I must have bought about 6 pairs,but the best quality,I got was from Brent Jesse,here:
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm...these were a little higher in price,but comes with Brents money back guarantee,so its a no brainer
   
  There are two versions of this tube...the clear tops,& the blackplates..the cleartops have a bit more on the top end.......the blackplates have  a stronger bass..
   
  If your interested,pm me & I'll mail down a pair for you to borrow--OK?
   
  Mike


----------



## Trance_Gott

I have some tubes to sell, under it the RCA clear tops:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/619158/tubes-for-schiit-lyr-eu-germany


----------



## wakeride74

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I use the lorenz & have the same set up as you...hard to beat.this combo.
> A month or two ago, ,I tested out a pair of Rca 6CG7,clear top...I was really impressed,and if you go back on this thread ,you'll find a few posts about them
> They have gotten mixed reviews,but,for the price,these are a bargain,with good sq,they can be found all over e-bay,I must have bought about 6 pairs,but the best quality,I got was from Brent Jesse,here:
> http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm...these were a little higher in price,but comes with Brents money back guarantee,so its a no brainer
> ...


 

 Perfect timing actually, thanks! One of my PC88's are going bad, I've been getting some static from the left driver of my LCD-2's, thought it was the headphones until I switched the PCC88's position in the Lyr and the problem went from the left driver to the right. Tubemonger is out of stock on them (DAMN!) so I need to grab a replacement... too bad too because I've been pretty happy with these.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Edit


----------



## wakeride74

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Edit


 

 1054 Lorenz PCC88


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

wakeride74 said:


> 1054 Lorenz PCC88




Man you read the edit fast . Should have referenced your posts above. The Lorenz went fast back in octoberish 2011. Keep an eye on the f/s thread, they show up now and again.


----------



## paradoxper

Have prices for Lorenz inflated yet...if so..I'm ready to sell a few.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mikek200 said:


> There are two versions of this tube...the clear tops,& the blackplates..the cleartops have a bit more on the top end.......the blackplates have  a stronger bass..




That's funny i felt like the black plates had more high energy, and the clear tops had slightly more bass.
Either way you can definitely tell they are siblings and both have a addictive sound to me


----------



## MickeyVee

Does anyone have any opinion on these??
  http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> That's funny i felt like the black plates had more high energy, and the clear tops had slightly more bass.
> Either way you can definitely tell they are siblings and both have a addictive sound to me


 
  Well,the blackplates that Jesse sold me,which were a matched pair..seemed to give me a slight bass increase...I called him about it,& he said the same thing..
 who knows,could be the phones? we use,the amp?
  Anyway,I enjoy both....a good quality tube at a very low price...and most importantly...made in USA.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Mike what were yours labeled?


----------



## Fearless1

Here is a brief summery of the latest batch of Matched pairs that I have tried in order of preference:
   
*[size=x-small]LORENZ PCC 88- [/size]*[size=x-small]Fantastically rich meaty sound, bass and mids very prevalent. This is my favorite so far. The only negative is the sound stage is not as wide. Phenomenal with bassy music.[/size]
   
*[size=x-small][size=x-small]SIEMENS 6DJ8- [/size][/size]*[size=x-small][size=x-small]Wonderful sound, sparkling highs and the widest sound stage and instrument separation of the bunch. Bass extension and mids not as good as the Lorenzs (not far behind though). .[/size][/size]
* *
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]*AMPEREX ORANGE LABEL 6DJ8*- The most "tubey" sounding. Very nice for rock and folk. Absolutely haunting vocals with these tubes. [/size][/size]
   
*[size=x-small]Ediswan 6922- [/size]*[size=x-small]Rich and bass heavy, great mids and highs. Not very good with sound stage.[/size]
   
*[size=x-small][size=x-small]Westinghouse 6922- [/size][/size]*[size=x-small][size=x-small]Nice sounding tube that does everything above average. [/size][/size]
   
*[size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small]GE Smoke glass ECC88-[/size][/size][/size]*[size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small] I was disappointed with these. They sound decent, but not quit up to the Westinghouse. I bought them from E-bay so who knows..... I expected more.[/size][/size][/size]
   
*RCA USA 6CG7 3 Black - *Sweet "middle of the road" sound. Lacks the energy of the ones listed above this.
   
  I do realize that sound is subjective, this is just an attempt to describe how these latest tube purchases sound to me.
   
  [size=x-small][size=x-small] These are a fewTh[/size][/size]


----------



## WesternE

fearless1 said:


> Here is a brief summery of the latest batch of Matched pairs that I have tried in order of preference:
> 
> *[size=x-small]LORENZ PCC 88- [/size]*[size=x-small]Fantastically rich meaty sound, bass and mids very prevalent. This is my favorite so far. The only negative is the sound stage is not as wide. Phenomenal with bassy music.[/size]
> 
> ...



 
 Thanks for the summary. I am not surprised by the 6GC7 results, the operating point with the 6GC7 is in a very non-linear region with this amp, more distortion very weak output impedance/transductance. This amp the Lyr is really a platform to build on, it competes with the best hybrids I've heard, but if you want to use 6GC7's its going to take a big re-work for the higher B+ and VA, at least if you are swinging a lot of voltage for Hifimans/orthos. With real efficient phones the poor operating point may not hurt things too bad since its only swing tens of a volt. The Lyr is the deal of the century as far as hybrids go when it comes to powering low efficient phones like my Hifi-mans (HE5-LE.) I still find it interesting to see folks tube rolling without upgrading the coupling caps which directly follow the tube, I swear they have equal impact on the sound as the tubes themselves (assuming you are running a 6dj8 type and not trying to add distortion.) If you are a tube guy replace the $4 Wimas with a pair of P-I-O caps, if you want the most revealing/true to recording sound there are the teflon caps, endless possibillities. Just watch the heat and voltage rating, the cap sees a little over 110VDC with a good condition 6DJ8 type. There are tons of info out there to read up on coupling caps, just really think it is worth mentioning here as the improvement in sound upgrading from the plastic caps is huge. I just ordered a pair of the Lorenz PCC88 (noticed they were made on Holland tooling  Just a little leary running the heater under spec. Since the heater tap can power the 6n1P's, there is probably enough VA to rectify and filter down to 6.8V's or so if you really want to get the most of the 7V tube.


----------



## eddiek997

Any specific caps you have in mind? I was looking at these but am not sure of the specs I should get. I use S&H cca's as well as some bugle boys and rca silvertop pre amp tubes in my lyr.
   
   
  Quote 





westerne said:


> Thanks for the summary.I am not surprised by the 6GC7 results, the operating point with the 6GC7 is in a very non-linear region with this amp, more distortion very weak output impedance/transductance. This amp the Lyr is really a platform to build on, it competes with the best hybrids I've heard, but if you want to use 6GC7's its going to take a big re-work for the higher B+ and VA, at least if you are swinging a lot of voltage for Hifimans/orthos. With real efficient phones the poor operating point may not hurt things too bad since its only swing tens of a volt. The Lyr is the deal of the century as far as hybrids go when it comes to powering low efficient phones like my Hifi-mans (HE5-LE.)I still find it interesting to see folks tube rolling without upgrading the coupling caps which directly follow the tube, I swear they have equal impact on the sound as the tubes themselves (assuming you are running a 6dj8 type and not trying to add distortion.) If you are a tube guy replace the $4 Wimas with a pair of P-I-O caps, if you want the most revealing/true to recording sound there are the teflon caps, endless possibillities. Just watch the heat and voltage rating, the cap sees a little over 110VDC with a good condition 6DJ8 type. There are tons of info out there to read up on coupling caps, just really think it is worth mentioning here as the improvement in sound upgrading from the plastic caps is huge.I just ordered a pair of the Lorenz PCC88 (noticed they were made on Holland tooling  Just a little leary running the heater under spec. Since the heater tap can power the 6n1P's, there is probably enough VA to rectify and filter down to 6.8V's or so if you really want to get the most of the 7V tube.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Any specific caps you have in mind? I was looking at these but am not sure of the specs I should get. I use S&H cca's as well as some bugle boys and rca silvertop pre amp tubes in my lyr.


 
  +1 on this question as well & have many different types of tubes..
  Any further info ,would be much appreciated..
   
  TNX,
  Mike


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





westerne said:


> Thanks for the summary.I am not surprised by the 6GC7 results, the operating point with the 6GC7 is in a very non-linear region with this amp, more distortion very weak output impedance/transductance. This amp the Lyr is really a platform to build on, it competes with the best hybrids I've heard, but if you want to use 6GC7's its going to take a big re-work for the higher B+ and VA, at least if you are swinging a lot of voltage for Hifimans/orthos. With real efficient phones the poor operating point may not hurt things too bad since its only swing tens of a volt. The Lyr is the deal of the century as far as hybrids go when it comes to powering low efficient phones like my Hifi-mans (HE5-LE.)I still find it interesting to see folks tube rolling without upgrading the coupling caps which directly follow the tube, I swear they have equal impact on the sound as the tubes themselves (assuming you are running a 6dj8 type and not trying to add distortion.) If you are a tube guy replace the $4 Wimas with a pair of P-I-O caps, if you want the most revealing/true to recording sound there are the teflon caps, endless possibillities. Just watch the heat and voltage rating, the cap sees a little over 110VDC with a good condition 6DJ8 type. There are tons of info out there to read up on coupling caps, just really think it is worth mentioning here as the improvement in sound upgrading from the plastic caps is huge.I just ordered a pair of the Lorenz PCC88 (noticed they were made on Holland tooling  Just a little leary running the heater under spec. Since the heater tap can power the 6n1P's, there is probably enough VA to rectify and filter down to 6.8V's or so if you really want to get the most of the 7V tube.


 

 Well over biasing a tube or under biasing is done all the time.. That is one of the interesting things about the PC88 Stuggart Lorenz is the Lyr only is putting out 6.3 so they are under biased and are one of the best sounding tubes yet that we have found since we started tube rolling..
  why you would be worried about not running at tube at its "operating point" is silly... In the big world of tubes like guitar amps we under bias and over bias all the time...This is nothing new your mention of the caps is of interested how much they would change anything is an unknown with the Lyr
  and would have to be investigated but the bottom line is if you changed them would you hear a difference? if not waste of time.


----------



## paradoxper

I swore there have been some people within this thread that have changed out the caps, no?
   
  IIRC: The results were "better" but didn't seem as big as rolling tubes.
   
  EDIT: I couldn't find any post on it. Perhaps I was wrong...maybe not...


----------



## mikek200

And,
  Is there any confirmation from Jason at Schiit,that this is a safe procedure..
  Couldn't it possible cause damage to the Lyr,or worse yet,,to a Lorenz???


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> And,
> Is there any confirmation from Jason at Schiit,that this is a safe procedure..
> Couldn't it possible cause damage to the Lyr,or worse yet,,to a Lorenz???


 
   





 Usually audiophiles are more concerned about damaging their amps than their tubes! LOL
   
  Yes, the Lorenz tubes are very good tubes.
   
  I finally carried out a shootout between the Pinched Waist 6922 Amperex (* USA) versus my stash of Lorenz tubes.
  The PW 6922 has the treble euphonic extension of the Lorenz CCa (2 Mica) and the Midrange euphony of the Lorenz E88CC (2 Mica).
  The bottom end of the PW 6922 has punch but loses out slightly to the Lorenz PCC88 (2 Mica).
   
  Another way of looking at the PW 6922 is that it is similar to a Lorenz PCC88 (3 Mica) or Lorenz 6922 (3 Mica) in being balanced sonically.
  However, the PW 6922 still does sound slightly better at both the Treble and the Midrange.
   
  The normal Amperex 6922s themselves are also almost as good (IMHO at least 90%) as pinched waist Amperex 6922s.
  The usual drill about "D" getters and grey shields being better also apply as usual. 
   
*So for those who are lusting after the Lorenz but can't get hold of them,*
*a suitable and worthy replacement would be the normal Amperex (*USA) 6922 which is cheap and readily available.*
   
  Epilogue or Prologue as the case may be. Joe was right! IMHO, the Amperex PW 6922s are the King of the hill!


----------



## mikek200

Great info LordSoth..
   
    " Usually audiophiles are more concerned about damaging their amps than their tubes! LOL"
   
Yes, just thought that Paradoxper,might get a chuckle out that statement.
He loves his Lorenzes...actually,so do I.
   
Mike


----------



## perfect-pitch

Heya guys,
   
  i need your help. One of my Lyrs got damaged through my own fault...
   
  Due to a stupid turn on my volume knob i turned it over the edge and got it into my hands... 
   
  Can you give me some kind of advise what i can do to put it correctly back to its position? I see that there is a little hole, but i don´t have such a little screwdriver to repair...
   
  Thanks


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Usually audiophiles are more concerned about damaging their amps than their tubes! LOL
> 
> Yes, the Lorenz tubes are very good tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  LordSoth,
   
  I have a few pairs of the white label Amperex 7308's ... usn ,usa tubes
  How would you rate these?
  Are they anywhere close to the ..USA  6922's...?


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Heya guys,
> 
> i need your help. One of my Lyrs got damaged through my own fault...
> 
> ...


 
  PP,
  Try sending them an e-mail...here is they're e-mail.
   
  support @schiit.com
   
  I know your in Germany-so>
  Wait for a response to the e-mail...maybe they can give you tech support,without having to send it in?


----------



## mikek200

DailyDose,
  My apologize for the long delay..in answering you
  The writing on the tube is not clear-I can hardly make it out.,but,
   
  On the box..Brent has written:
 6CG7-RCA
  BlackPlate-tested: 6-12-12
  GM1==3150
  GM2=3000
   
  They look like brand new tubes...NOS
   
  Hope this helps,
  Mike


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mikek200 said:


> DailyDose,
> My apologize for the long delay..in answering you
> The writing on the tube is not clear-I can hardly make it out.,but,
> 
> ...




Thanks, mine look identical as far as build but one is labeled Admiral and one is GE. They are also closely matched and appear to be nos like you mentioned.


----------



## mikek200

Hi Daily dose,
  I'm not 100% sure it matters ,who made them,as long as they are 6CG7's
  The numbers you have on your set,are almost identical to mine.
  I know for a fact that mine are RCA
   
  As long as they are NOS,and your getting good,strong, clear sound..???
  Are you trying to figure out if the various manufacturers who made this tube.....have different SQ??


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mikek200 said:


> Hi Daily dose,
> I'm not 100% sure it matters ,who made them,as long as they are 6CG7's
> The numbers you have on your set,are almost identical to mine.
> I know for a fact that mine are RCA
> ...




No no they sound great, I'm pretty sure they are the same tube( or very close) relabeled. I was just curious what yours were labeled. I wasnt familiar with admiral


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Have y'all seen these Lewis and Kaufman 6922s for sale on tubemonger http://www.tubemonger.com/PhotoDetails.asp?ShowDESC=N&ProductCode=1162
The tubes don't really get my attention as much as the picture of the rabid cat they printed on their boxes. I'm just going to throw this out there but I don't think there are enough rabid cats printed on tube boxes


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> LordSoth,
> 
> I have a few pairs of the white label Amperex 7308's ... usn ,usa tubes
> How would you rate these?
> Are they anywhere close to the ..USA  6922's...?


 
   
  Hi Mike,
   
  Sorry I can't help you here.
   
  I don't own any Amperex USA 7308s.
   
  I only own the Amperex USA Pinched Waist ("PW") 6922 and non PW 6922 versions.
   
  Would appreciate any input from the other tube rollers who hang out here.


----------



## mikek200

Lord Soth,
   
  OK-,thanks for your reply
   
  I have a few pairs of both,& will run an A/B comparison,to see if I can pick up any differences,and post back.


----------



## paradoxper

Only the Amperex Holland hold their own to Lorenz. Fact.


----------



## mikek200

Not an expert on Admiral either,but,Now that I think about it,I believe my families first TV,was made by ..Admiral,so,they were probably big with TV tubes.
  I'm going back now,about 55 years...so??


----------



## mikek200

Paradoxper,
   
  Remember,a few months back ,I was Pm'ing you about the Amperex tubes..but of course you shunned me,by sticking your Lorenz nose up  at me???..LOL
  I think I sent you down a pair???
   
    See,now some people are beginning to see the light...not a bad alternative ,to the lorenz,which are  impossible to get.
  Of course,I guess it might depend on what headphones you're using???
   
  The Lorenzes are an absolute beautiful tube,though.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Paradoxper,
> 
> Remember,a few months back ,I was Pm'ing you about the Amperex tubes..but of course you shunned me,by sticking your Lorenz nose up  at me???..LOL
> I think I sent you down a pair???
> ...


 
  I stil got 'em too. Tried selling 'em but apparently my profit margin was too much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I am just going to say...at this rate (somehow) the Amperex are going to become the FOTM just like the RCA clear tops and black plates were.
   
  The only thing I can say is the Lorenz and Siemens are a close 1 and 2. However the Mullard CV2493 are exceptional. Everything else is just a little more meh.


----------



## mikek200

"Tried selling 'em but"
   
Nice,I send them down as a gift,and what do you do??-try to sell them--nice
   
 Go To Your Room!!!!!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> "Tried selling 'em but"
> 
> Nice,I send them down as a gift,and what do you do??-try to sell them--nice
> 
> Go To Your Room!!!!!


 
  Uhhhh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 Whatever!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

If i recall people were calling Lorenz fotm when they were the rage last year and they are still getting high praises. I have the holland orange globe amperex and they are really not preference, recessed highs, super warm, and undetailed. Pretty much opposite the Lorenz to my ears. I'm sure the 50's amperex pinch waist are sweet but I saw a pair on audiogon last month for $650, so for now I'm going to have to live vicariously through soth's description


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Actually these look pretty sweet, even though they are holland made http://app.audiogon.com/listings/holland-e188cc-7308-pair-nos-nib-matched-1962-possib
Kinda pricey, however a picture of a cracked out cat on the boxes might sweeten the deal


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> If i recall people were calling Lorenz fotm when they were the rage last year and they are still getting high praises. I have the holland orange globe amperex and they are really not preference, recessed highs, super warm, and undetailed. Pretty much opposite the Lorenz to my ears. I'm sure the 50's amperex pinch waist are sweet but I saw a pair on audiogon last month for $650, so for now I'm going to have to live vicariously through soth's description


 
  Well, they were wrong. Totally wrong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I was just making a totally blind unexperienced Head-Fi guess. 
   
  As of late I've stopped buying tubes. I have about 8 pairs of Lorenz and a few Siemens. I ended up spending 
  way more than I ever expected on tubes. And though there are a few tubes like the Amperex 50's pinch waist
  I missed out on or never tried. I am pretty damn happy with what I have.
   
  I am very much looking forward to Schiit statement tube rolling.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Actually these look pretty sweet, even though they are holland made http://app.audiogon.com/listings/holland-e188cc-7308-pair-nos-nib-matched-1962-possib
> Kinda pricey, however a picture of a cracked out cat on the boxes might sweeten the deal


 
  You and them damn cats. One would hope they'd purr.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I have about 8 pairs of Lorenz and a few Siemens.


 
   
  Seriously?
   
  That's messed up.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Seriously?
> 
> That's messed up.


 
  I've made my greed for Lorenz well known.
   
  But to be fair....I only have 6 pairs of Stuttgart's and 2 pairs of the Nish.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> You and them damn cats. One would hope they'd purr.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Only the Amperex Holland hold their own to Lorenz. Fact.


 
  I second that in test I have done over and over


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> And,
> Is there any confirmation from Jason at Schiit,that this is a safe procedure..
> Couldn't it possible cause damage to the Lyr,or worse yet,,to a Lorenz???


 
  I would not myself change out the caps it would be a negliglbe difference and void your 5 year warranty with Schitt.. Now maybe when I do decide to upgrade my Lyr maybe I will play with it but caps haha thier is so much debate on that... Its not even worth mentioning


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I've made my greed for Lorenz well known.
> 
> But to be fair....I only have 6 pairs of Stuttgart's and 2 pairs of the Nish.


 
  Hoarder!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> Hoarder!


 
  Ok, I* may* be down to 4 pair (of Stuttgart's) now. Fair?


----------



## Lorspeaker

quick remark..off topic...
  whenever i plug the denon d7000 into the LYR, the sound is feeeenomenal.




  ok back to your chat.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ok, I* may* be down to 4 pair (of Stuttgart's) now. Fair?


 
  Send 1 matched pair, we'll call it even.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> quick remark..off topic...
> whenever i plug the denon d7000 into the LYR, the sound is feeeenomenal.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LOL!
   
  The question should be have you unplugged from the Lyr yet?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> Send 1 matched pair, we'll call it even.


 
  You damn HEATHENS! I guess I really only need 1 pair, right?
   
  EDIT: Forget it...I don't even need the 1 pair. My good works will pay off in the end.


----------



## Girls Generation

When I say, incredible bass slam, sparkling treble/good treble energy, as well as lush/smooth mids for female vocals, what tube do you immediately think of?  With an LCD2 r2


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> When I say, incredible bass slam, sparkling treble/good treble energy, as well as lush/smooth mids for female vocals, what tube do you immediately think of?  With an LCD2 r2


 
   
  EAT 300B.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

sridhar3 said:


> EAT 300B.




Haha nice


----------



## wakeride74

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I've made my greed for Lorenz well known.
> 
> But to be fair....I only have 6 pairs of Stuttgart's and 2 pairs of the Nish.


 
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I second that in test I have done over and over


 
  Brent Jesse from audio tubes replied to my inquiry about a alternative to the Lorenz with the following:
   
   
 [size=12pt] _[size=11pt]WE have the very nice and rare PCC88 by Amperex/Philips Holland in stock,  from the early 1960s.  These are $160.00 USD per matched pair or $75.00 each for single tubes.  They have a bit more midrange body than the Lorenz tubes and are just as quiet and smooth.[/size]_[/size]

 [size=12pt] _[size=11pt] [/size]_[/size]

 [size=12pt] _[size=11pt]A better tube would be the 6922 early 1960s vintage Siemens from Germany.  These are low noise industrial quality gold pin tubes.  They are $230.00 per matched pair or $115.00 each.[/size]_[/size]

 [size=12pt] _[size=11pt] [/size]_[/size]

 [size=12pt] _[size=11pt]All are new old stock, tested, and guaranteed.[/size]_[/size]

 [size=12pt]  [/size]

 [size=12pt] Any comments from you LCD-2 owning tube whores?[/size]


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





wakeride74 said:


> Brent Jesse from audio tubes replied to my inquiry about a alternative to the Lorenz with the following:
> 
> 
> [size=12pt] _[size=11pt]WE have the very nice and rare PCC88 by Amperex/Philips Holland in stock,  from the early 1960s.  These are $160.00 USD per matched pair or $75.00 each for single tubes.  They have a bit more midrange body than the Lorenz tubes and are just as quiet and smooth.[/size]_[/size]
> ...


 
  K Dexter, since you don't own the LCD-2 nope, no comments for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  The Amperex Holland was a tube I'd figure was quite good. Ask Mrscary, Mrrogers, Lord Soth
  for more details on 'em, since they are a tube I've missed out on.
   
  The Siemen's are generally highly revered, as stated in previous post
  usually 1. Siemen's 2. Lorenz. vice versa. My favorite pair of Siemen's were the A-frames,
  but they were traded to a fellow Head-Fier.  Nice soundstage, strong details and a little bit warm.
  forward, extended highs, they are just an all around hit for the LCD-2.
   
  I'd however recommend the Mullard CV2493, I just find them every bit as good as the CCa's I've heard.
   
  I rank them 1. Lorenz PCC88 Lorenz Stuttgart 2-mica/3-mica. 2. Mullard CV2493 3. Siemen's A-frames.


----------



## Rope

I retired from tube procurement after discovering Lorenz Stutts, but I'm always good for some tube pr0n.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> You damn HEATHENS! I guess I really only need 1 pair, right?
> 
> EDIT: Forget it...I don't even need the 1 pair. My good works will pay off in the end.


 
  Remember, in this contest we call life, the one who dies with the most tubes wins.  So, never, ever give up tubes, especially if they're Lorenz Stutts.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> Remember, in this contest we call life, the one who dies with the most tubes wins.  So, never, ever give up tubes, especially if they're Lorenz Stutts.


 
  Well, you see...someone wants to buy some Lorenz off me, little do they know....they're Lorenz Nish. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Shh!


----------



## wakeride74

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> K Dexter, since you don't own the LCD-2 nope, no comments for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just got my LCD-2's back from a repair actually. Left driver was having issues and from what I can tell they gave me new ones with the same cable... new freq chart, headband is tighter, grain is darker, etc. The LCD-2 has been my only full sized headphone for a while. I have some 600ohm DT880's that I bought to have while the LCD-2's were in for repair but don't find them all that impressive. My Bifrost should be coming today with a toss link to mini cable for my iMac and new tubes are next. I've had a helluva time finding the "issue" I was having with my Lorenz and am starting to wonder if the LCD-2 driver and a couple bad recordings were the culprit. I noticed a couple tracks that displayed the problem from Elien Jewell's Letters from Sinners & Strangers are doing the same on my SM3's. At any rate, I'm ready for some new tubes to change things up so I'll be checking into your recs, thanks!


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> K Dexter, since you don't own the LCD-2 nope, no comments for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I agree totally with Paradoxper,and,
  Just a note on the A-frames...which I rank..#3,just under the 3-mica's
   
  After I got these from Paradoxper..this tube has quality about it ,like no other,it has a warm quality,and still gives good detail.
  When listening to some classical /opera music,I've listened to for the last 40 years..I'm hearing details ,that never has come out before
  I don't know why this is....age,structure of the tube??..what?..my chain??
  I even mentioned this to paradoxper,after he sent them to me..he agrees.
   
  Maybe a more learned member,can throw some light on this?
  And,if someone is looking at this tube { not inexpensive.},..I strongly suggest you try it--just my .02 cents


----------



## Blackmumba

tube rolling don't like my wallet, must stay away but can't


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





wakeride74 said:


> Brent Jesse from audio tubes replied to my inquiry about a alternative to the Lorenz with the following:
> 
> 
> [size=12pt] _[size=11pt]WE have the very nice and rare PCC88 by Amperex/Philips Holland in stock,  from the early 1960s.  These are $160.00 USD per matched pair or $75.00 each for single tubes.  They have a bit more midrange body than the Lorenz tubes and are just as quiet and smooth.[/size]_[/size]
> ...


 

 Well you need to find out what he means by this "_[size=11pt]A better tube would be the 6922 early 1960s vintage Siemens from Germany."     [/size]_
   
_[size=11pt]Bottom line is the CCa's are the best in whatever flavour one chooses if he is trying to pass off E88CC siemens for that price he is out of his mind nowt he E88CC/6922 Siemens tubes are really great tubes I have several sets and tried them with all 3 LCD versions and they sound great but only the early years IMHO others may no specific years mine are like 1962 or 3's but they are not worth that cost... Now on the PCC88 /Amperex Phillips hmmmm I am not sure Mr Rogers or Slothy man may know. Be very cautious of anyone saying that anything compares to the Lorenz IMHO man thats a big word and I have yet to find anything that is so similar I would never say compare as in sound wise I find every tube has a signature... push him for more info [/size]_


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I agree totally with Paradoxper,and,
> Just a note on the A-frames...which I rank..#3,just under the 3-mica's
> 
> After I got these from Paradoxper..this tube has quality about it ,like no other,it has a warm quality,and still gives good detail.
> ...


 

 Yeah I sometimes prefer the CCA A-Frames to the Simens & Halske CCa's depending on the headphone I use but as of late my tube choices have changed radically because I have been using the EDition 8's alot for mixing and am too lazy to switch phones all the time... Its always nice to have a Collection as headphones change and your signal chain changes so will ones thoughts on certain tubes not always but sometimes 
  And I highly agree on most of the Mullards I as of late have been running the E88CC Mullards for like a month straight not even turning off the Lyr hahaha yes I have several sets maybe I will change them out tonight


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Well you need to find out what he means by this "_[size=11pt]A better tube would be the 6922 early 1960s vintage Siemens from Germany."     [/size]_
> 
> _[size=11pt]Bottom line is the CCa's are the best in whatever flavour one chooses if he is trying to pass off E88CC siemens for that price he is out of his mind nowt he E88CC/6922 Siemens tubes are really great tubes I have several sets and tried them with all 3 LCD versions and they sound great but only the early years IMHO others may no specific years mine are like 1962 or 3's but they are not worth that cost... Now on the PCC88 /Amperex Phillips hmmmm I am not sure Mr Rogers or Slothy man may know. Be very cautious of anyone saying that anything compares to the Lorenz IMHO man thats a big word and I have yet to find anything that is so similar I would never say compare as in sound wise I find every tube has a signature... push him for more info [/size]_


 
   
  Hi Mr.S...
  Good to see your post.
   
  That was my thoughts as well...you have to remeber,that Jesse's tubes have a money back gaurentee..this might have something to do with it..NO?
  Many of his tubes are ..NOS,and thoroughly tested before they are shipped...unlike e-bay.
   
  I did a comparison test between the 6922's & my mica-3's,on a variety of music,and ..although the 6922's are an excellent tube...not sure, they run in 2nd place to the lorenz??
  This on ..lcd-2s/Lyr combo.....,but,on another headphone/amp combination..it could be totally different.???


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Hi Mr.S...
> Good to see your post.
> 
> That was my thoughts as well...you have to remeber,that Jesse's tubes have a money back gaurentee..this might have something to do with it..NO?
> ...


 
  Mike I dont care if he coated them in 24k Gold paper they still are not worth that much I surely myself would not put the E88CC/6922's anywhere neat the Lorenz they are good tubes but not in the same ballpark IMHO they are radically different in sound to the CCa's and the later year Simens the 70's E88CC/6922's are harsh and nasty tubes so take all these tube sellers with a grain of salt I do the research compare prices and buy... Thats when I did buy I have so many now that I should make a wall ornament.... IMHO  ÖÖ


----------



## mikek200

Every tube I looked at since I joined this forum ,has gone up in price.
   
  I've dropped $2500.00 in the last 7 months ,on tubes,alone.
  MY wife says ,if she sees any more tubes being delivered..she going to put all of them in the toaster oven..
   
  I saw a Siemens tubes ,listed on e-bay for $499-
   
  Are you going t tell me thats what they used to go for ,last year..I dont think so..
  The only reason I bought my first Lorenz,was because YOU, offered it to me for such a low price....I'd have been an idiot  not to buy..that was 6 months ago..
   
  Do you feel the lcd-3's are worth ...$3000.00..or Stax...$9000.00..??.
   
  Thats why I got so excted about the 6CG7,clear tops,& blackplates..I felt these are good tubes at a very low price..even MrRogers had good things to say.,about them,& he's an expert on tubes-like you.
  But I got bashed for pushing them..all the time
   
  I must have 10 pairs of these,from  all different e-bay sellers,&.... Brent Jesse,who sold me his at the highest price of all of them,but,I'm convinced at $70.00 ..they are a steal..do they sound like a CCa,or Mica-3,of course not.,but I will not hesitate to use them ,with certain headphones and certain tubes...just my preference,my wallet.


----------



## WesternE

mrscary said:


> I would not myself change out the caps it would be a negliglbe difference and void your 5 year warranty with Schitt.. Now maybe when I do decide to upgrade my Lyr maybe I will play with it but caps haha thier is so much debate on that... Its not even worth mentioning



 
 Why would it not be worth mentioning? Every popular tube amp made (especially for headphones) has had someone upgrade thier coupling caps. This amp inparticular has the cap in a position where the sound is influenced, its similiar to cap rolling a tube DAC output (see the Havana thread) before a SS amp, only the difference here its better because the mosfet stage has a higher input impedance so you can use a .47uf cap. This is a very well designed hybrid, very good. Here is a photo of my stock coupling capacitor, you can see that it desoldered cleanly (quality PCB unlike some of the overseas amps): http://i50.tinypic.com/dp8w06.png . If you have experience with soldering I don't know why you would worry about the warranty on a $500 amp if you're spending more than that on tubes. Of course if you don't have the experience don't roll the caps the risk is shorting one or more the 4 output mosfets which cost a few dollars a piece. Overall can't think of anything on the amp in general (cap rolling aside) that could go bad that it would be worth the trouble of sending it out for warranty (IOW it would be easier to fix about anything on this amp yourself.) Its well designed and easily serviced, will last a lifetime (the powersupply 'lytic caps will need changed in what about 8 years?). Obviously its an individual decision and opinion but mine is revelant to the thread that you aren't hearing an expensive tube's full potential until you upgrade the cap immediatly following it in the signal path. Now if you are running a odd ball tube at a high distortion operating point for the extra 2H distortion then yes I wouldn't bother with caps . But if you are spending hundreds or thousands on pinched waste amperex you really should consider upgrading the capacitors, if you don't know how take it to a soldering tech. But anyone who has built a Millet hybrid should be able to handle a cap roll if they take the precautions to insulate the leads and place it far from the tube as possible. There are risks in any mod. The toughest part is finding a cap that is an upgrade that can be made to fit and not overheat. That's a personal decision also, someone mentioned the russian KY42's, these would not be worth the hassel, possibly the KY40 but even the 200V version is pretty big.. The vitamin Q caps made a huge improvement to my ears, more than the difference between National Japanese 6DJ8 vs Amperex orange a-frame tubes. Just google vitamin Q + tube amp if you aren't familiar with these and their synergy with classic tubes. As far as the 6GC7 and "bashing." This tube in this amp sits is a very low current (low bias) section of the 6GC7's curve. So you lose a lot of transductance vs 6DJ8's If you are using headphones with low impedance and high sensitivity then the increased distortion won't be huge because the tube isn't swinging much voltage (this is one advantage of mosfet output over transformer output). But if you are using Hifiman's where you are swinging 3Vrms or more on the output, the 6GC7's just don't sound good to me because the tube is in such a non-linear operating point. Earlier in this thread I posted the Harmonic distortion FFT of this amp with 6DJ8's outputing 1W into 38 ohms, the amp measured very very good for this high power output in comparison to other hybrids and just about any tube amp.) To top this amplifier's performance at 1W with a 1W SE no NFB, its just about impossible without spending at least athousand for parts. As far as the Lorenze tubes made on Holland tooling being talked about did I order the right ones:1968 MPs MINT NOS Lorenz SEL Label with Bundeswehr Falcon Logo Same Date Batch 08K - Nish Yugoslavia ? I haven't found any info on Lorenze other than this thread, saw nothing at the usual tube forums. I've heard Ei's before but I think they were 90's production and not Holland tooling http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=801 ? Thanks


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





westerne said:


> .As far as the Lorenze tubes made on Holland tooling being talked about did I order the right ones:1968 MPs MINT NOS Lorenz SEL Label with Bundeswehr Falcon Logo Same Date Batch 08K - Nish Yugoslavia ? I haven't found any info on Lorenze other than this thread, saw nothing at the usual tube forums. I've heard Ei's before but I think they were 90's production and not Holland toolinghttp://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=801?Thanks


 
  While the SEL Lorenz aren't so terribly bad, they're not the "famed" Lorenz we talk about.


----------



## sperandeo

The contest is still on to win a Schiit Lyr amp

Here is the link

www.gearphile.com


----------



## haquocdung

Sorry no nobbie question: if I use the Lyr, I have to wait a period of time (20 mintutes) before I actually can listen to my can.
  Is that correct for every tube amp?

 Thank you.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





haquocdung said:


> Sorry no nobbie question: if I use the Lyr, I have to wait a period of time (20 mintutes) before I actually can listen to my can.
> Is that correct for every tube amp?
> 
> Thank you.


 
  No, you don't have to wait any amount of time. Tubes warmup within an hour and will give you the best sound, but you can listen straight upon turn on.


----------



## Rope

If you'd like the best sonic quality for critical listening, turn your gear on 1/2 hour before listening.  However, as pradoxper stated, in no way will it harm your gesr to listen at power on.
   
  The above goes for any amplifier, SS, tube, or hybrid.  Best sonic results is acheived at operating temperature.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Mike I dont care if he coated them in 24k Gold paper they still are not worth that much I surely myself would not put the E88CC/6922's anywhere neat the Lorenz they are good tubes but not in the same ballpark IMHO they are radically different in sound to the CCa's and the later year Simens the 70's E88CC/6922's are harsh and nasty tubes so take all these tube sellers with a grain of salt I do the research compare prices and buy... Thats when I did buy I have so many now that I should make a wall ornament.... IMHO  ÖÖ


 
  Scary dude, you still scare me.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> Scary dude, you still scare me.


 
  WUSSY.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> WUSSY.


 
  I resemble that remark!


----------



## MickeyVee

True that! This is pretty much what I dow with my A/V system and headphone systems. Especially with the Lyr.
  Quote: 





rope said:


> If you'd like the best sonic quality for critical listening, turn your gear on 1/2 hour before listening.  However, as pradoxper stated, in no way will it harm your gesr to listen at power on.
> 
> The above goes for any amplifier, SS, tube, or hybrid.  Best sonic results is acheived at operating temperature.


----------



## kskwerl

i had no money for lunch today, just wanted to add that


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> i had no money for lunch today, just wanted to add that


 
  Yea, because you need to buy more tubes!


----------



## kskwerl

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Yea, because you need to buy more tubes!


 
  duh! I always end up spending all my cash on this hobby and somehow some way I always make it to the next paycheck


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> duh! I always end up spending all my cash on this hobby and somehow some way I always make it to the next paycheck


 
  Duh! You and *We* make rent by starving.


----------



## kskwerl

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Duh! You and *We* make rent by starving.


 
  exactly, i mainly eat pb&j's to get through the two weeks


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> exactly, i mainly eat pb&j's to get through the two weeks


 
  With the crust's removed?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> exactly, i mainly eat pb&j's to get through the two weeks


 
  Whoa Spoiled! At least you can afford pb&j's. PB is nearly $4 here, so I am stuck eating nothing but eggs.


----------



## kskwerl

Quote: 





rope said:


> With the crust's removed?


 
  Hell no that's like dinner
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Whoa Spoiled! At least you can afford pb&j's. PB is nearly $4 here, so I am stuck eating nothing but eggs.


 
  haha i know the feeling sometimes I do 2 eggs and they come with hash browns!


----------



## Rope

You both eat like kings.  Ramen Noodles, Baby!!!
   
  When I was in college and Hi Spot had hamburgers for a quarter each, we'd buy 20 and freeze what we didn't eat.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Back to our regularly scheduled programming...roll, roll, roll your....


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> You both eat like kings.  Ramen Noodles, Baby!!!
> 
> When I was in college and Hi Spot had hamburgers for a quarter each, we'd buy 20 and freeze what we didn't eat.
> 
> ...


 
  LOL!


----------



## kskwerl

So I have some GE's and JJ's from Schiit, as well as some Sylvania's and some RCA 6BQ7A's and these http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm
   
  What should I try next, I'm looking to lift a veil 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I would really only like to spend like 120 USD max, maybe I could find something from Brent Jesse?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> So I have some GE's and JJ's from Schiit, as well as some Sylvania's and some RCA 6BQ7A's and these http://www.tubemonger.com/MPs_MINT_NOS_Ei_PCC88_1968_Lorenz_SEL_Falcon_logo_p/801.htm
> 
> What should I try next, I'm looking to lift a veil
> 
> ...


 
  You could try out the black plates or clear tops. Maybe stretch that budget out a bit more for some Siemens or Mullards.
  I've also heard some good results with the Tungsram.


----------



## kskwerl

paradoxper said:


> You could try out the black plates or clear tops. Maybe stretch that budget out a bit more for some Siemens or Mullards.
> I've also heard some good results with the Tungsram.




Idk Brent Jesse has some pretty narley tubes for sale for around 150-170 I think I'm gonna give him a call and see what he's still got in stock cause Idk how updated his site is.


----------



## mikek200

Try these:
   
http://www.audiotubes.com/audtube.htm
   
  Scroll down left hand column ,until you see:
  6CG7/6FQ7--RCA clear plates-Matched pair
  These run $48.00 .. ,I've been using these & the blackplates,for a few months.
   
  +1 on Paradoxpers {this man knows his tubes !-his word is Gospel }.. suggestion on the Siemens.,a truly beautiful tube...
  Both of these should???,lift any veil


----------



## paradoxper

Well, my Mullard CV2493 are putting out a line noise sound, switching them out it goes away. 
  I cleaned the tubes with some alcohol and cotton swabs. Any other suggestions to salvage them?


----------



## mikek200

Paradoxper,
   
  Dont have an answer to your problem...however,I do have a NOS backup pair,made for the Swedish Airforce...if it comes down to that,OK?
  I think ,I told you about these tubes.
  Let me know..
   
   
   
   
  Mike


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Paradoxper,
> 
> Dont have an answer to your problem...however,I do have a NOS backup pair,made for the Swedish Airforce...if it comes down to that,OK?
> I think ,I told you about these tubes.
> ...


 
  Yea, I am pretty bummed, so I'll have to see what happens, I highly doubt there is much that can be done. They've got about 800 hours on them.
  I guess I might hit you up or look for another pair. bleh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Oh and yea, you did tell me about those tubes. I think those are CV2492's which I didn't care for. 
   
  This gives me more reason to actually listen to more tubes, which just sit unused. haha


----------



## mikek200

Well,if its any consolation to you,we're all in the same boat.
  I feel that way with my Lorenz....I'm almost afraid to use them.
   
  So,now you have a good excuse,to buy the.....................MJOLNIR !!!
   
  I'll put the cv2493 aside for you..
   
   
  Mike


----------



## okw3188

Hi Mikek200,
   
  just like to confirm that you are using 6CG7 in the Lyr as equivalent to 6922, thanks.


----------



## perfect-pitch

Hello guys,
   
  my volume knob on my Lyr got fixed. Everything alright!!!
   
  Now i´m enjoying my *Amperex PQ 7308 White Label - made in USA* and i can´t get away the big smile on my face 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  A pleasure to hear them with my HE5-LE  Not the biggest bass, but a very large soundstage and damn - these ones are dead quiet!!
   
  Thanks to songmic for these great tubes!!!
   
  @Mike
   
  Sadly your tubes have not arrived yet.Maybe by the end of the week....


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> my volume knob on my Lyr got fixed. Everything alright!!!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Glad to know you're enjoying those tubes! I guess I won't be coming to thread anymore, as I'm selling my Lyr and buying a new solid-state amplifier to drive my newly bought Fostex TH900. Although I'll be missing the amount of time (and money) I've spent on tube rolling, hehe.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Hi Mikek200,
> 
> just like to confirm that you are using 6CG7 in the Lyr as equivalent to 6922, thanks.


 
  ????
   
  Yes,I am using the 6CG7 on my Lyr...the 6922 work as well..


----------



## okw3188

Can it drive the LCD-2, as the gain of 6CG7 is much lower than 6922 and how's the overall sound?


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Can it drive the LCD-2, as the gain of 6CG7 is much lower than 6922 and how's the overall sound?


 
   
  The LCD-2s don't need that much power.  I suspect it would drive them fine.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

okw3188 said:


> Can it drive the LCD-2, as the gain of 6CG7 is much lower than 6922 and how's the overall sound?




I noticed that they read about 7-10ma which concerned me that it would be underpowered,so I asked member misterrogers, who knows a few things about tubes. His response was that the lyr is a current mode auto bias amp, so it compensates. It's out of the lyrs operating point but sounds very good. 
He was right it takes the same volume to push them and they(cleartop/blackplates)sound very good with my lcd2 as well IMO.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Well, my Mullard CV2493 are putting out a line noise sound, switching them out it goes away.
> I cleaned the tubes with some alcohol and cotton swabs. Any other suggestions to salvage them?


 

 Ohh no tubes going never know when its like why do some go quick and others just never burn up? hehe did you use detoxit on the pins?  I suspect they are just going nothing ya can do now in some cases as Mike saw when I shipped him some tubes if they get jiggled around alot then sometimes a few hours of burn in clears it up if the noise is consistent not going away
  use them as weapons if you get pissed like put a microhole in them and fill them with Gas. now you have  nice little bomb


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Ohh no tubes going never know when its like why do some go quick and others just never burn up? hehe did you use detoxit on the pins?  I suspect they are just going nothing ya can do now in some cases as Mike saw when I shipped him some tubes if they get jiggled around alot then sometimes a few hours of burn in clears it up if the noise is consistent not going away
> use them as weapons if you get pissed like put a microhole in them and fill them with Gas. now you have  nice little bomb


 
  Yep, detoxit didn't fix 'em. So they're just gone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I am a nice guy. So I don't build bombs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However I could see me in a fit of rage chucking my beloved, yet broken Mullards at traffic.


----------



## Rope

If the pins have a significant amount of oxidation build up, try fine emery cloth torn into a thin strip.  Gently run the strip 360 degrees around each pin, then wipe the pins with electrical contact cleaner.
  *EDIT*
   
  Do not use this proceedure on gold pins!!!!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> If the pins have a significant amount of oxidation build up, try fine emery cloth torn into a thin strip.  Gently run the strip 360 degrees around each pin, then wipe the pins with electrical contact cleaner.
> *EDIT*
> 
> Do not use this proceedure on gold pins!!!!


 
  Thanks, Rope. I'll make a trip to HD or Lowe's tomorrow. 
   
  EDIT: And to no avail, no miracle story here. I'm still pissed off and looking forward to SS gear.


----------



## shaunybaby

So has anybody tried some Genalex Gold Lion 6922/e88cc valves? how are they?


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





shaunybaby said:


> So has anybody tried some Genalex Gold Lion 6922/e88cc valves? how are they?


 
  Yes, would you like to purchase them?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





shaunybaby said:


> So has anybody tried some Genalex Gold Lion 6922/e88cc valves? how are they?


 
  See man there is your answer nobody wants them they are ok man I personally have revisted them I bought two sets way over a year ago and I just found the other set they sound ok with closed ear phones I think they suck arse with Open headphones but thats my opinion... Buy them from Rope I think I will save mine never know someday another amp may come out with tubes that are not commodity tubes..  yeah right we are going solid state sad but true  luckily there are some killer tubes being remade in the Audio production world so we will always have some for making music... just listening that the prob not enough market ;(


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





rope said:


> If the pins have a significant amount of oxidation build up, try fine emery cloth torn into a thin strip.  Gently run the strip 360 degrees around each pin, then wipe the pins with electrical contact cleaner.
> *EDIT*
> 
> Do not use this proceedure on gold pins!!!!


 
   
  The CV2492/2493 should all be gold pins!
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Thanks, Rope. I'll make a trip to HD or Lowe's tomorrow.
> 
> EDIT: And to no avail, no miracle story here. I'm still pissed off and looking forward to SS gear.


 
   
  If it's the pins you could always try Deoxit Gold GX (you can get it in the Deoxit Vacuum Tube Survival Kit, the one rated for tubes...it's the aircraft one.)  Or the harsh conditions one...Deoxit....can't remember the series but it's the green one.  It's for harsh environments, also more of a lube/protectant.
   
  But I do suspect your 2493's are just fizzling.  One of my 2492's have a slight hiss, as do one of my Tungsrams, but it's not horrible, and it's easy to ignore.  But yours...yeah...sounds like a failing tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  On the other hand there's some other great tubes out there!  It's not the loss of your favorite tube, it's an opportunity to experience new tubes!


----------



## GeorgeNapalm

I must say this DeOxIT does wonders! Specifically I had slight buzzing sound from one of the channels using Amperex Bugle Boys tubes and a strong hum from one of my RCA  6BQ7A tubes. Scratcing the pins with a knife and fine sandpaper didn't help. After applying DeOxIT all bad symptoms are gone. 16 bucks well spent 
   
  The thing I bought is "CAIG DeOxIT D100 Power Booster Metal Electric Connection Cleaner, Enhancer, and Lubricant"


----------



## MickeyVee

Just loaded up a pair  Matsu E88CC 6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling
I ran them for a while before (they may have 40 hours on them) and found them sibilant with the HE400 and HD700 and the bass is a little flabby. 
Frying my ears a bit even with the HE400





Read/heard some good things about them - maybe just needs some burn in - how much burn in do they need?
Anyway - will let them run on their own for a day or two.
   
On another note, just ordered some Mullard CV2492 E88CC 6922 - M. Pairs Like New 1969-1978 Dimple Disc Getter 
Thought I'd give them a try.


----------



## sferic

Agreed. Deoxit works wonders. Sound becomes quieter and more detailed. It's highly addictive however. I can barely even plug in a phone cord without whipping out the pen.


----------



## sferic

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Just loaded up a pair  Matsu E88CC 6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling
> I ran them for a while before (they may have 40 hours on them) and found them sibilant with the HE400 and HD700 and the bass is a little flabby.
> Frying my ears a bit even with the HE400
> 
> ...


 
  I only have 4 sets - the original JJ's, kind of thin. Gold Lions, nice upgrade but I'd describe them as you describe the Matsu 6922's. Most disappointing, some cryo 6H23N's - flabby bass and no air. And the Matsu's (National), which I had settled on. Just ran thru all 3 again tonight since I'd changed my audio player (Fidelia - Mac - fantastic). Still came back to the Nationals, I love them. I'm just too cheap to get the higher end options, but of these 3 under $100 pair options they are BY FAR the best in my system. I pretty much preferred them from the first cold start, they have remained my favorites thru a DAC change and a player change. Did you deoxit the pins? I just re-did them tonight, always helps.
   
  That said, I know others haven't liked them as well. 
   
  Player: Fidelia
  DAC: Bifrost
  AMP: Lyr
  Phones: LCD2 rev 2 + PS1000


----------



## caracara08

i have the matsu nationals in right now.  havent had enough time to go through my colletion but i too have Gold lions, matsu 6922s, cryo 6h23s, matsu nationals, and realized i have a pair of mullards that i should throw in there soon.


----------



## MickeyVee

I have a feeling that I have a power noise problem.. when I turn on the fan in my office I get a hi pitch sibilance through the Lyr.
Was at a HeadFi meet yesterday and had the full setup offsite and didn't get it. The Lyr with the stock GE tubes sounded awesome.  So, off to buy a cheap power conditioner tomorrow. Settled on the Belkin PF30. We'll see how it goes.
   
As far as tubes go, once the new ones come in, this will be my collection:
• GE 6BZ7 stock from Schiit[size=medium]
• Amperex 6DJ8 / ECC88 - A-Frame, PQ label[size=medium][/size]
• Matsu****a E88CC 6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling[/size]
 [size=medium] • Mullard CV2492 E88CC 6922 - M. Pairs Like New 1969-1978 Dimple Disc Getter  [/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] Can't find deoxit in Canada (so far) - was about to order online but $35 shipping for a $15 product - no thanks! I'll keep looking.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
Edit - just found it - search is my friend - just specified Canada, doh!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mickeyvee said:


> I have a feeling that I have a power noise problem.. when I turn on the fan in my office I get a hi pitch sibilance through the Lyr.
> Was at a HeadFi meet yesterday and had the full setup offsite and didn't get it. The Lyr with the stock GE tubes sounded awesome.  So, off to buy a cheap power conditioner tomorrow. Settled on the Belkin PF30. We'll see how it goes.
> 
> As far as tubes go, once the new ones come in, this will be my collection:
> ...




Man I just a had the same issue with a fan and the lyr, there was a noticeable click when you would change the speed of the fan and I could hear a high pitched tone when music wasn't playing. I bought a monster hts5100 conditioner off here for a good price and ifs completely cleared the problem, makes me wonder how much junk I was actually hearing before. 
Is there a retailer in the states that carries deoxit? happen to be at lowes and don't see it


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Duplicate


----------



## mikiphile

A couple of questions guys... nice to see this thread very active.
   
  Ive asked before about the HE-500. I plan on getting them next month, and I would like to know something specifically bout tubes. 
   
  I know that I will be loosing a big portion of the soundstage with the HE-500 (since it happens with all planar magnetics aparently, the K701s are known for it), but are there specific tubes that are good for the HE-500 that will have nice soundstage? Something within the reasonable price range, max $200. 
   
  Are there any rules with tubes for planars? The HE-500 is slightly darker than the HE-6 and my K701... will the 2492 Mullards be sufficient or you suggest something else? I also have a pair of ECC88 Teslas which are quite entry level but I think they will handle darker cans better.
   
  Another questions... what is halo getter? and those "getter" terms i see around? Im having a hard time finding anything bout it...
   
  Thanks a lot,
   
  Mike


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hey mikiphile a few answers in no particular order. The getter is the ring shaped(typically) piece of metal that is suspended at the very top of the tube, maybe hard to see because of the metallic flashing that surrounds it. The getters purpose is to absorb unwanted gas inside the vacuum. As you have noticed there are different shapes, these do not affect the sound, only might indicate the age of the tube( "D" shaped is usually an older variety of tube). 

I use audeze planar and haven't noticed any rules with them per se. I just roll tubes when I'm changing genres, like I would with 701. 
I use the cv2493 with my orthos and it sounds pretty nice to me. You might be satisfied with how your Mullards sound and not need to upgrade, just gotta try them with the 500s


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> A couple of questions guys... nice to see this thread very active.
> 
> Ive asked before about the HE-500. I plan on getting them next month, and I would like to know something specifically bout tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  I think you've been reading too much into internet comments. Not all planars lack soundstage. That's highly dependent on amplification and source..anyways.
   
  The Mullards are some of the nicer or "better" tubes in your price range, imo. You could also look at scavenging a pair of Lorenz.
  I know there are quite a few of us who are looking to off load our tubes to help finance Mjolnir.
   
  As stated ad nauseam, the clear tops and black plates are a hit and miss. Depends on your taste, they're cheap and you've got a 50/50 chance at really liking them.
  Some report having good results with the Tunsgram and SEL Lorenz, those are also good cheap alternatives.
   
  If you're expecting for a dark can to sound "un-dark" by tube rolling, you'll be disappointed. Tubes will only impart so much flavor.
  That's where EQ'ing can come into play, if you're into that...


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I think you've been reading too much into internet comments. Not all planars lack soundstage. That's highly dependent on amplification and source..anyways.
> 
> The Mullards are some of the nicer or "better" tubes in your price range, imo. You could also look at scavenging a pair of Lorenz.
> I know there are quite a few of us who are looking to off load our tubes to help finance Mjolnir.
> ...


 

 NO... i dont wanna undark the HE-500, just to fine-tune them a bit, thats exactly what im doing with my 701s. 

 I was just worried cos i read (Mainly on Head fi) that the soundstage is narrower than most dynamic headphones. I really like my Mullards cos the vocals are very very smooth and the low end is more present.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> NO... i dont wanna undark the HE-500, just to fine-tune them a bit, thats exactly what im doing with my 701s.
> 
> I was just worried cos i read (Mainly on Head fi) that the soundstage is narrower than most dynamic headphones. I really like my Mullards cos the vocals are very very smooth and the low end is more present.


 
  Ah, fine-tune, sorry for the misinterpretation. I think the Mullards are a fine tube, smooth, super liquid with good bottom. A Lorenz would bring out more
  3 dimensionals and a heavier bottom end. A favorite of many Head-Fiers, including myself.
   
  IME, only the HD800 really has a drastic soundstage comparatively. The T1 isn't much better than the HE-500 or LCD-2 and definitely not 
  bigger or better than LCD-3 or HE-6.


----------



## perfect-pitch

Quote: 





georgenapalm said:


> I must say this DeOxIT does wonders! Specifically I had slight buzzing sound from one of the channels using Amperex Bugle Boys tubes and a strong hum from one of my RCA  6BQ7A tubes. Scratcing the pins with a knife and fine sandpaper didn't help. After applying DeOxIT all bad symptoms are gone. 16 bucks well spent
> 
> The thing I bought is "CAIG DeOxIT D100 Power Booster Metal Electric Connection Cleaner, Enhancer, and Lubricant"


 
   
  I use DeoxIT D5 for my tube pins and contacs with absolutely great results.
   
  Enyoing the following tubes right now with my Lyr and the cardas recabled HD 600
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_MPs_1974_E88CC_6922_A_Frame_Gold_Pin_MINT_p/857.htm


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> I use DeoxIT D5 for my tube pins and contacs with absolutely great results.
> 
> Enyoing the following tubes right now with my Lyr and the cardas recabled HD 600
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_MPs_1974_E88CC_6922_A_Frame_Gold_Pin_MINT_p/857.htm


 
  Fantastic tubes, great choice , two of  my favorites. I ran those and the Lorenz pretty consistently for a while. My new flavor are  the Mini-watt * 6BQ7A*s, i just love the way they sound in the Lyr.


----------



## paradoxper

I threw my Mullards back in...and the noise is gone. I had them in previously for about 3 days and had Lyr and Bifrost on during that time.
  Just seems weird to me this tube noise appeared, but after I took them out to cool down it's now gone. I am puzzled by the coincidence, but very happy to have my Mullards back.


----------



## mikek200

You mean,you had them running non stop for 3 days?
  Couldn't that in itself cause some sort of a noise issue...

 did you use detoxit,at any time
   
  I remeber when i got my first Lorenz,{from Mr.Crazy}..when i put them in and let them warm up a bit igot a lot of craclking sounds--He told me to take them out & cool down for an hour..which I did,then put them back in and they were perfect..like you said...wierd.
  Maybe the Mullard Gods were playing games with you??
  Glad they're working again...these & the 2493's are my favorites.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> You mean,you had them running non stop for 3 days?
> Couldn't that in itself cause some sort of a noise issue...
> 
> did you use detoxit,at any time
> ...


 
  Usually I am not one who leaves tube gear on. However I was just feeling lazy and it almsot cost me.
   
  I know there are so many variants in regards to tube behavior, but I'd love some kind of
  explanation to the reason(s) why a cooling down period could have a positive impact/solution to a noisy tube.
  That is...if there are any...


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Usually I am not one who leaves tube gear on. However I was just feeling lazy and it almsot cost me.
> 
> I know there are so many variants in regards to tube behavior, but I'd love some kind of
> explanation to the reason(s) why a cooling down period could have a positive impact/solution to a noisy tube.
> That is...if there are any...


 
  The process of heating tube internals (the metal parts) and the slow cooling, is akin to annealing, which releaves stress and makes metal more pliable.  How that relates to your tubes would be a metallurgy question.
   
  As an example and one of the issues that surrounded the SR71 Blackbird was the skin of the plane received a heat treatment every time it was flown, which became harder and harder.  They had no idea how long the skin would last.  The other issue was overall plane shrinkage when cold, which lead to fuel weep.  To alliviate the fuel weep issue, they would take off with half fuel and top off in flight when the planes operating temperature was attained.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> The process of heating tube internals (the metal parts) and the slow cooling, is akin to annealing, which releaves stress and makes metal more pliable.  How that relates to your tubes would be a metallurgy question.
> 
> As an example and one of the issues that surrounded the SR71 Blackbird was the skin of the plane received a heat treatment every time it was flown, which became harder and harder.  They had no idea how long the skin would last.  The other issue was overall plane shrinkage when cold, which lead to fuel weap.  To alliviate the fuel weap issue, they would take off with half fuel and top off in flight when the planes operating temperature was attained.


 
  Whooop..never should have asked....these specifics go right on over my head.
   
  So can someone provide a layman explanation to why the noise was there and after cool down gone?
  Also, why isn't it consistent?
   
  Thanks Rope! You shed some light, but failed to educate me.


----------



## Rope

Simply put, metal does strange things when heated and cooled (expansion/contraction) which can and does change the molecular structure.
   
  Someone who has expertise in both metallurgy and tube structure could without a doubt determine why your tubes became functional.  I have a sneaky suspicion it has to do with the metal parts expanding and contracting.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> Simply put, metal does strange things when heated and cooled (expansion/contraction) which can and does change the molecular structure.
> 
> Someone who has expertise in both metallurgy and tube structure could without a doubt determine why your tubes became functional.  I have a sneaky suspicion it has to do with the metal parts expanding and contracting.


 
  I've had the Mullards in today/last night/ w/e playing for over 18 hours or something, consider me grateful. They are my fav tube.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I've had the Mullards in today/last night/ w/e playing for over 18 hours or something, consider me grateful. They are my fav tube.


 
  Do not question the audio Gods.  I'm glad your beloved Mullards are back from the dead.
   
  When my Stutts go to the land beyond, I'm selling all my full size listening gear and going strickly IEM.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> Do not question the audio Gods.  I'm glad your beloved Mullards are back from the dead.
> 
> When my Stutts go to the land beyond, I'm selling all my full size listening gear and going strickly IEM.


 
  You are a nut! Just buy more Lorenz!!! Why go full IEM?


----------



## W0lfd0g

Does anyone have experience buying from this site: http://www.mullardmagic.co.uk/mullard/products/269-triode-ecc88-e88cc-6922-cv2492-gold-pin-valve-mullard.aspx
   
  Have just ordered a used pair of CV2492s (1963) that seemed to test OK for 55 GBP.  The email response I got was immediate, but included numerous errors.  Are they legit?


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





w0lfd0g said:


> Does anyone have experience buying from this site: http://www.mullardmagic.co.uk/mullard/products/269-triode-ecc88-e88cc-6922-cv2492-gold-pin-valve-mullard.aspx
> 
> Have just ordered a used pair of CV2492s (1963) that seemed to test OK for 55 GBP.  The email response I got was immediate, but included numerous errors.  Are they legit?


 
   
  Im not sure if this is for NOS (only), but I havent seen a matched pair of the cv2492 to go below 120 usd. But thats just me, the rest of the folks are much more experienced... they should know better.


----------



## MickeyVee

Checked Tube Monger this morning for the Mullards and they were at $125. Should pick them up as there is 1 set left but taking a chance on these: http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_Like_New_1969_78_E88CC_CV2492_MitchamL_p/555-low.htm
  Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> Im not sure if this is for NOS (only), but I havent seen a matched pair of the cv2492 to go below 120 usd. But thats just me, the rest of the folks are much more experienced... they should know better.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> Im not sure if this is for NOS (only), but I havent seen a matched pair of the cv2492 to go below 120 usd. But thats just me, the rest of the folks are much more experienced... they should know better.


 
  Almost exclusively buying from Upscaleaudio under $120 seems sketchy, unless they are used.


----------



## W0lfd0g

Advertised as used:
   
  [size=small]*"These examples which consititute a matched pair ares ex-equipment an carries the UK military date code TE & TF respectively which equates to May & June  1963.   They both test as GOOD using my AVO Valve Characteristic Meter VCM163 with the following results: 2.0V*[/size]
 
 [size=small]*Valve A*[/size]
 [size=small]*Section 1: Ia = 12mA; gm = 11.0mA/V*[/size]
 [size=small]*Section 2: Ia = 12mA; gm = 11.0mA/V*[/size]
 [size=small]*Factory code: 7Li  R1L1*[/size]
 [size=small]*Valve B*[/size]
 [size=small]*Section 1: Ia = 12mA; gm = 11.0mA/V*[/size]
 [size=small]*Section 2: Ia = 12mA; gm = 11.9mA/V*[/size]
 [size=small]*Factory code: 7Li R2L3*[/size]
 [size=small]*The specification for a new/100% emission valve is:*[/size]
 [size=small]*Ia = 15mA; gm = 12.6mA/V*[/size]"


----------



## 333jeffery

I tried some Telefunken E288CC tubes in my Lyr, and fell in love with the amp all over again. Warmth and crystal clarity, dead silent, too. My HD600's work great with them. If only they weren't so pricey, I'd buy several pairs of them.


----------



## W0lfd0g

This link might be interest to some you history/engineering nuts.  It's a documentary made by Mullard showing the manufacturing process of tubes at their Blackburn plant.  Looks like it was made in the early to mid 60's.
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y&feature=related


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

333jeffery said:


> I tried some Telefunken E288CC tubes in my Lyr, and fell in love with the amp all over again. Warmth and crystal clarity, dead silent, too. My HD600's work great with them. If only they weren't so pricey, I'd buy several pairs of them.




I would love to have a pair of those, every time I find some they are like $400 a pair. Good to hear they have such synergy with the lyr, i may have to keep looking.


----------



## 333jeffery

You can find them on ebay for $250/matched pair. There are several for sale on there now. Very stout construction, so they should last many thousands of hours.
   
  BTW, has anyone here tried the ECC189 tube in the Lyr? I see tons of them listed at cheap prices and wondered if they are a good low-buck alternative to the E88CC tubes.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> You can find them on ebay for $250/matched pair. There are several for sale on there now. Very stout construction, *so they should last many thousands of hours*.
> 
> BTW, has anyone here tried the ECC189 tube in the Lyr? I see tons of them listed at cheap prices and wondered if they are a good low-buck alternative to the E88CC tubes.


 
  You've been quoted on that.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

333jeffery said:


> You can find them on ebay for $250/matched pair. There are several for sale on there now. Very stout construction, so they should last many thousands of hours.
> 
> BTW, has anyone here tried the ECC189 tube in the Lyr? I see tons of them listed at cheap prices and wondered if they are a good low-buck alternative to the E88CC tubes.




Thanks for the heads up. The ecc189 is the same as the ecc88 except for a variable mu(gain). I don't know how the lyr would act with it. I would probably just save my money for more telefunkens


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Almost exclusively buying from Upscaleaudio under $120 seems sketchy, unless they are used.


 
   
  Exactly what i thought... but it says a matched pair so.. Btw, arent they supposed to be slightly cheaper if they don't test well or if they arent matched? Its hard to find them cheaper even if you buy them individually. 
   
  I have mine for like 3 months now and I am immensely pleased. The only tube to compare them to is the Tesla ECC88 which is not so good. I am actually interested in Telefunken or the Lorenz Stuttgart everyone is talking bout.. (not sure of the exact models) I intend to save up maybe.

 The problem in this hobby is that you dont know what to save up for FIRST... damn


----------



## Starfire

First post in this thread, just got a used Lyr, it had the stock JJ tubes, I picked up a set of 6CG7 RCA clear tops and rolled them in, things seem to be a bit clearer, got to figure out what to try next that's not to expensive.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





starfire said:


> First post in this thread, just got a used Lyr, it had the stock JJ tubes, I picked up a set of 6CG7 RCA clear tops and rolled them in, things seem to be a bit clearer, got to figure out what to try next that's not to expensive.


 
  I own both RCA 6CG7 black plates and GE gray plates.  The GE's are more transparent to my ears and better all around.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

rope said:


> I own both RCA 6CG7 black plates and GE gray plates.  The GE's are more transparent to my ears and better all around.




Rope just curious, in your opinion which has more low end?


----------



## Rope

Off the top of my head, I'd say the GE's, however it's been a good 9 months since rolling them.  This evening, time permiting, I'll roll both sets so I'm not guessing.
   
  I believe I purchased both matched pair from Tube Depot for around $5.00 per pair, but again I'd have to check my records.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

It's cool man, no hurry. That's a really good deal if you got both pair for 10 bucks


----------



## W0lfd0g

Earlier today I ordered a pair of Telefunken ECC189s and a pair of Valvo PCC189s.  Only just noticed the advice that they be avoided, but I only paid $40.00 a pair for each. 
   
  Do I risk any damage to my Lyr by rolling them in?


----------



## W0lfd0g

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> ECC189. I have not played with those tubes per se because their variable mu nature is really dicey.
> 
> Based on theory, there is a certain range whereby the ECC189 tube exhibits linear sonic qualities.
> This is highly dependent on the tube amp.
> ...


 
   
*Re: ECC189 & PCC189 compatibility with Lyr*

 Have just emailed Jason Stoddard @ Schiit to find out B+ voltage and downloaded datasheets for ECC189 and PCC189 (although of different brand). 
   
  I have a few questions for the in-house gurus (Lord Soth especially)
   

 B+ voltage is plate (anode) voltage, yeah?
 What is the effect of using a variable gain tube such as these in a single voltage gain stage amp such as the Lyr?  Could it cause damage to the amp or tubes, or will it just affect the sound quality?
 What is meant by the phrase "linear sonic qualities"?  What are the two variables with the linear relationship and how will this impact performance?
 How do I compare the B+ voltage with the datasheets to determine a theoretical compatibility?
   
  Sorry if these are novice questions, but I haven't even received my Lyr yet and haven't started the tube rolling adventure. 
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

w0lfd0g said:


> Earlier today I ordered a pair of Telefunken ECC189s and a pair of Valvo PCC189s.  Only just noticed the advice that they be avoided, but I only paid $40.00 a pair for each.
> 
> Do I risk any damage to my Lyr by rolling them in?




I don't think it would damage anything, just wasn't sure how it would sound. What do i know. Your the guinea pig on this one, if you want to try them I would definitely like to hear your impressions


----------



## jsplice

Call me crazy people, but I think I'm actually preferring the JJ's over the Ge 6BZ7s.  The JJs just have a more detailed sound to my ears.  If you're going for a more lush, rolled off sound, the GE's are great.  One problem with the GE's also, is they seem to have a bit more gain than the JJ's, which is bad for the Lyr if you're using anything other than the HE-6.
   
  Edit: Hmm actually I'm not really sure anymore.  I think it's hard for me to say that one is "better" than the other.  The JJ's sound more extended in the treble, but the GE's seem to have mids that are more liquid, which is a nice match for the HD700s, since the mids can be a bit pulled back with the HD700s.


----------



## jsplice

Also, has anyone with the GE 6BZ7s noticed a very faint high pitch noise being made that can be heard when no music is playing?  It doesn't change loudness along with the volume control; it's just a constant noise.  I do not notice this with the JJ's.  I've noticed this with all headphones I've tried.
   
  Edit: I think these tubes may have gone microphonic.  Even a very faint tap on either of them sends a noise into the headphones.  It's either just a trait of these tubes, or they are defective.


----------



## kskwerl

jsplice said:


> Also, has anyone with the GE 6BZ7s noticed a very faint high pitch noise being made that can be heard when no music is playing?  It doesn't change loudness along with the volume control; it's just a constant noise.  I do not notice this with the JJ's.  I've noticed this with all headphones I've tried.
> 
> Edit: I think these tubes may have gone microphonic.  Even a very faint tap on either of them sends a noise into the headphones.  It's either just a trait of these tubes, or they are defective.



 
 If you tap the JJ's you'll hear it as well. Try reseating the GE's, they may also very well be microphonic as they are NOS tubes


----------



## 333jeffery

After days of listening to many different cd's on the Telefunken E288cc's, I can safely say that my days of tube-rolling on the Lyr are over. These tubes are the "end game" for this particular amp. Chilling clarity and detail, with a warmth that would make Mullard fans weep tears of joy. I liked the Lyr from the beginning, but there was always something missing from it that I couldn't quite put my finger on, until I listened to the E288cc's. With these tubes, I was able to hear details that had been glossed over previously. Yet, it didn't come at the cost of sounding dry or analytical. Indeed, vocals sound luscious, and electric guitar sounds positively sinful on the Telefunkens. From bass all the way to treble, it's smooth and balanced. Absolutely dead silent where it should be, too. Now, I just need to save my money for more pairs of them!


----------



## Tomdarkness

I know this might sound daft but how far should you be able to push the tubes in? Does the bottom of the tube need to be flush with the bit you insert it into as I've got quite a bit of the pins still showing?


----------



## sridhar3

Push it all the way in.
   
  #TWSS


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Push it all the way in.
> 
> #TWSS


 
  This is described as in correct.  Meaning, when it's in, in tight, and all the way in, it's in correct.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> If you tap the JJ's you'll hear it as well. Try reseating the GE's, they may also very well be microphonic as they are NOS tubes


 
  All tubes, when excited by an outside source, will display signs of microphonics.  Also known as "tube ringing".


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





rope said:


> All tubes, when excited by an outside source, will display signs of microphonics.  Also known as "tube ringing".


 
   
  Right, but some tubes are more sensitive than others.  I know when purchasing tubes from Upscale Audio, you can choose "platinum grade", which are supposed to be the ones tested by him to have the lowest levels of microphonics.  I'd be curious to know what actually causes tubes to "go microphonic", i.e. is it just when they get older, if they get jostled too hard, etc.


----------



## Rope

jsplice -
   
  I don't have an answer for a tube becoming microphonic after a period of time, but I suspect (conjecture) it would have something to do with the tubes internals becoming heated an cooled many times.
   
  The point I am trying to establish is the fact that any tube regardless of testing for low microphonics, will become microphonic by tapping (very lightly) the tubes bottle.  I don't recommend doing this while the tube is extremely hot, but if you put your phones on and tap the bottle lightly, you'll hear what is referred to as "tube ringing".  Some tubes will "ring" in the process of warming up.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





rope said:


> jsplice -
> 
> I don't have an answer for a tube becoming microphonic after a period of time, but I suspect (conjecture) it would have something to do with the tubes internals becoming heated an cooled many times.
> 
> The point I am trying to establish is the fact that any tube regardless of testing for low microphonics, will become microphonic by tapping (very lightly) the tubes bottle.  I don't recommend doing this while the tube is extremely hot, but if you put your phones on and tap the bottle lightly, you'll hear what is referred to as "tube ringing".  Some tubes will "ring" in the process of warming up.


 
   
  I do agree with your point.  But the reason I bring this up is because I believe the high level of microphonics in my GE tubes is the culprit for the high pitched noise I can hear coming through my headphones.  My guess is that the tubes are picking up nearby electrical noise and transmitting them through the headphones.  I do not notice this with my JJ tubes, and a tap on the JJ tubes produces a much much quieter noise than with the GEs.  I'm sure there are several reasons for always wanting to use tubes with the lowest microphonics, particularly with components such as preamps and input sections of integrated amplifiers, as they are working with very low input signals and can be more susceptible to noise.


----------



## Rope

Quote:


dailydoseofdaly said:


> It's cool man, no hurry. That's a really good deal if you got both pair for 10 bucks


   
  GE 6BQ7A NOS Gray Plate/$3.95 per tube (Tube Depot), 05-27-2011. RCA 6GU7 NOS Black Plate/$4.00 per tube (Deep Surplus) 07-07-2011
   
  The GE's are definitely bigger in the low frequency department, in fact, they're bigger all the way around.  Keep in mind that mileage varies depending on your rig.
  I employed HE-500/SB Touch/WMA lossless media/Bifrost/Lyr.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> I do agree with your point.  But the reason I bring this up is because I believe the high level of microphonics in my GE tubes is the culprit for the high pitched noise I can hear coming through my headphones.  My guess is that the tubes are picking up nearby electrical noise and transmitting them through the headphones.  I do not notice this with my JJ tubes, and a tap on the JJ tubes produces a much much quieter noise than with the GEs.  I'm sure there are several reasons for always wanting to use tubes with the lowest microphonics, particularly with components such as preamps and input sections of integrated amplifiers, as they are working with very low input signals and can be more susceptible to noise.


 
   Granted, some tubes are definitely more microphonic and care needs to be taken to procure tubes that have very low microphonics when dealing with the Lyr.  I've had (past tense) tubes that would sing their own song at particular fequencies, yet at other frequencies, quiet as a mouse.


----------



## W0lfd0g

*Selling 1 x pairs of Lorenz Suttgard PCC88's, squat with gray shields (light use) and a spare*
   
  Purchased from MrRogers via Kremer930.
   
  Send me a PM if you are interested


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





w0lfd0g said:


> *Selling 2 x pairs of Lorenz Suttgard PCC88's, squat with gray shields (light use). *
> 
> Purchased from MrRogers via Kremer930.
> 
> ...


 
  No offense, but this is cheap.


----------



## W0lfd0g

No offense meant or taken.  I am sorry, you are probably right.  I will take it down.   The tubes are still for sale though.


----------



## sridhar3

I sincerely hope you're not intending to turn a profit off the sale of these tubes.


----------



## W0lfd0g

No.  I bought them with a lyr for $550.00 and don't know what they are worth.  I have no intention of making a profit and am not even really sure how much I paid for them as they came with the amp.  What do you think I should list them for?  I want to use the sale to partly fund a Bifrost.  My preference would be that they go to someone who would really like to hear them, doesn't already own a set and might normally be too expensive for them.  That's the reason for posting the way I did.  
   
  I am sorry I posted here. Would have gone to eBay for a profit.  I just wanted to help the community in a fun way.  Sorry that it came across as tacky.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





w0lfd0g said:


> No.  I bought them with a lyr for $550.00 and don't know what they are worth.  I have no intention of making a profit and am not even really sure how much I paid for them as they came with the amp.  What do you think I should list them for?  I want to use the sale to partly fund a Bifrost.  My preference would be that they go to someone who would really like to hear them, doesn't already own a set and might normally be too expensive for them.  That's the reason for posting the way I did.
> 
> I am sorry I posted here. Would have gone to eBay for a profit.  I just wanted to help the community in a fun way.  Sorry that it came across as tacky.


 
  Lorenz are pretty rare, sell 'em for $400 flat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  OR
   
  $240 for 2 pairs. That's $120 per pair.


----------



## Fearless1

A very interesting set of NOS tubes that can be had fairly cheap and are in the realm of the Lorenz are the Philips Miniwatt 6BQ7As. They have very plush mids and  smooth highs(reminiscent of the Lorenz). The only thing they lack a bit in is the bass impact, but I am not sure as of yet if that is because of the forward mids blending the sound  or a true lack of impact. I am only about 20-30 hours in and these were NOS so if anything changes down the road I will post impressions.


----------



## sridhar3

Found my Tubemonger invoice.  NOS pair cost $70.00 USD per tube, $4.00 USD shipping, totaling $144.00 USD per pair.  Used tubes warrant a markdown.


----------



## Tomdarkness

This might also be another silly question but this is my first tube amp. If you have two identical tubes installed should one be glowing more than the other? For some reason the tube in the back hardly gives off any visible light despite being the same type of tube installed in the front.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





tomdarkness said:


> This might also be another silly question but this is my first tube amp. If you have two identical tubes installed should one be glowing more than the other? For some reason the tube in the back hardly gives off any visible light despite being the same type of tube installed in the front.


 
  I've noticed this on some tubes of mine in the past, but never thought to ask anyone about it.  On the ones that I did notice that had differing brightnesses, I didn't notice any problems with the sound.


----------



## W0lfd0g

1 x pair Lorenz Stuttgard PCC88, gray shield, squat, OM, no label
  1 x pair Lorenz Stuttgard PCC88 gray shield squat (with Lorenz label) - getter in one of these tubes has come loose
   
  Purchased from MrRogers via Kremer930
   
  I will put these up in the sale section of the forum when I am able at $240.00 for the lot.  Thanks for your help.


----------



## Kremer930

Just in support of W0lfd0g... These tubes were bought from MrRogers and have seen less than 10 hours use in total. I was hoping that he wouldn't have to sell them and could keep them with the Lyr but he is stuck between keeping the tubes or getting a Bifrost. 

The tubes are getting hard to find hence why I never used them. I used the Amperex A frames with the orange writing. 

I don't see any issues here with flipping for a profit. He bought a package of things and doesnt actually know the component prices. It is just a shame that he has to sell them...


----------



## jsplice

Well I just ordered a match, cryo pair of the Gold Lion 6922's.  I know these aren't the end-game for this amp, but I need an affordable upgrade over the GE tubes.  I sent an email to Jason from Schiit Audio about my GE tubes being bad (getting a high pitch noise in the right channel) and responded quickly, saying he'll be shipping out new ones right away.  I didn't want to take any chances with those GEs being bad too, so I'm getting the Gold Lions.  Should be interesting to hear the improvement.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I don't see any issues here with flipping for a profit. He bought a package of things and doesnt actually know the component prices.


 
   
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Found my Tubemonger invoice.  NOS pair cost $70.00 USD per tube, $4.00 USD shipping, totaling $144.00 USD per pair.  Used tubes warrant a markdown.


 
   
  $240 for the lot seems fair, assuming the fourth tube works.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> Well I just ordered a match, cryo pair of the Gold Lion 6922's.  I know these aren't the end-game for this amp, but I need an affordable upgrade over the GE tubes.  I sent an email to Jason from Schiit Audio about my GE tubes being bad (getting a high pitch noise in the right channel) and responded quickly, saying he'll be shipping out new ones right away.  I didn't want to take any chances with those GEs being bad too, so I'm getting the Gold Lions.  Should be interesting to hear the improvement.


 
  Dayum, wish you'd have something earlier.  I've got a matched pair GLs in storage I'd made you a hellofadeal on.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





w0lfd0g said:


> 1 x pair Lorenz Stuttgard PCC88, gray shield, squat, OM, no label
> 1 x pair Lorenz Stuttgard PCC88 gray shield squat (with Lorenz label) - getter in one of these tubes has come loose
> 
> Purchased from MrRogers via Kremer930
> ...


 
  $240 is dead on. I'm willing to bet the other Lorenz owners here bought their tubes for $120. Now
  if you'd care to be transparent maybe you'd confirm or deny that is what you paid Kremer.


----------



## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> $240 for the lot seems fair, assuming the fourth tube works.


 
  All you folks need some Major therapy when spending over $30 for a pair of tubes. imo.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> All you folks need some Major therapy when spending over $30 for a pair of tubes. imo.


 
   
  I own a pair of Marconi B65.  I'm already a lost cause.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





rope said:


> Dayum, wish you'd have something earlier.  I've got a matched pair GLs in storage I'd made you a hellofadeal on.


 
  No biggie.  I just hope they show up soon.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> No biggie.  I just hope they show up soon.


 
  I was going to give a preface on the GL sound, but thought better of it.  No spoiler here.  We'll see if your experience is status quo.


----------



## W0lfd0g

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> $240 is dead on. I'm willing to bet the other Lorenz owners here bought their tubes for $120. Now
> if you'd care to be transparent maybe you'd confirm or deny that is what you paid Kremer.


 
   
  I purchased the Lyr (SH) and some tubes (including the Lorenz) from Kremer930 for the total amount of $550.00 AUD.  The Lyr retails here in Australia for $549.00 new and so Kremer930 and I agreed that this was a fair deal.  There was no breakdown of the price on a component by component basis, just a bundle price. 
   
  Initially I was going to use my Meier StageDAC to run the Lyr, but decided it would match well with the Bifrost.  Listed my StageDAC  and Meier Corda Concerto amp for sale in the hope I could fund the Bifrost (with the sale of one, the other or both), but they haven't sold yet.  Therefore, I am parting with the Lorenz tubes to partly fund the SH Bifrost deal, which is only open for a limited time. 
   
  Was concerned that people might think I was trying to make a quick buck on the tubes and so checked with Kremer930 to see if it was OK with him if I sold them.  He said that it was fine by him and so I went ahead. 
   
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> $240 for the lot seems fair, assuming the fourth tube works.


 
   
  All four tubes are fully functional.  What am I saying - they are beautiful (they are Lorenz Stuttgard after all).


----------



## Kremer930

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> $240 is dead on. I'm willing to bet the other Lorenz owners here bought their tubes for $120. Now
> if you'd care to be transparent maybe you'd confirm or deny that is what you paid Kremer.


 
  Wolfdog doesnt know how much he paid for the tubes.  The price was a bundled package and I then threw in some extra things after the deal. 
   
  Personally I think that he should sell them for market price.  That is what I paid when I bought them a year ago.  The market has moved. 
   
  I am all for people supporting other headfiers enjoyment and accessability of this great hobby but when people on here raise accusations of flipping for a profit when the poor guy doesnt even know an itemised cost.... you need to get a life!!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Wolfdog doesnt know how much he paid for the tubes.  The price was a bundled package and I then threw in some extra things after the deal.
> 
> Personally I think that he should sell them for market price.  That is what I paid when I bought them a year ago.  The market has moved.
> 
> I am all for people supporting other headfiers enjoyment and accessability of this great hobby but when people on here raise accusations of flipping for a profit when the poor guy doesnt even know an itemised cost.... you need to get a life!!


 
  Well, that was the exception, but now he knows.
   
  You can say it's fine for him to flip for a profit and some of us can
  disagree or agree to disagree. However if you're listing on Head-Fi you will get called
  out on it. Use eBay for profit, if that's your motive.


----------



## Kremer930

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Well, that was the exception, but now he knows.
> 
> You can say it's fine for him to flip for a profit and some of us can
> disagree or agree to disagree. However if you're listing on Head-Fi you will get called
> out on it. Use eBay for profit, if that's your motive.


 
  Your sentences are not clear but let me say...Wolfdog is not flipping for a profit. 
   
  He does not know what was paid a year ago.  All I said is that I paid market price.
   
  I agree that people should not flip for a profit.  And for the record...they should not take it offline to Ebay to flip for a profit either.  They should support our hobby and keep the prices reasonable and accessible.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Your sentences are not clear but let me say...Wolfdog is not flipping for a profit.
> 
> He does not know what was paid a year ago.  All I said is that I paid market price.
> 
> I agree that people should not flip for a profit.  And for the record...they should not take it offline to Ebay to flip for a profit either.  They should support our hobby and keep the prices reasonable and accessible.


 
  The brief discussion of flipping for profit was mentioned. (see Sridhar3) Wolf did ask what he should sell them for,
  I am the one that said the base price for the Lorenz at 2 pairs is $240. I then went on to say I bet most who have Lorenz
  bought them for $120. Sridhar3 went even further pulling his invoice from Tubemonger a NOS pair were* $144.
  However NOS Lorenz are rare so you mark the price down with them being used. Hence the standard price of $120/pair. I have bought 8 pairs
  of Lorenz and only once paid over $200 for them. I knew I was overpaying, but I wanted more. 
   
  When you're on eBay you aren't going to get called out for it. Your prerogative at that point. So it's a non issue.


----------



## W0lfd0g

Hi everyone
   
  Have just listed the Lorenz tubes for sale.
   
  I am currently on long service leave from work and have enjoyed reading through this thread in its entirety.  The experience has been somewhat marred in the last twenty-four hours.  Please, let us forget all this, respect each other and get on with enjoying the music and sharing experiences with gear. 
   
  Mutual respect and support is what makes Headfi such a great place.  May I suggest that PMs be used in preference to public posts if someone's integrity is being questioned.  I do not condone flipping and do not think I am guilty of it.  However, defamatory remarks have no place here and part of the terms of service are that they be avoided.
   
  Now, I think I will get back to listening to some early sixteenth century choral music (William Cornysh performed by the Tallis Scholars) using my Lyr and HE-500s - Heaven!


----------



## Starfire

Quote: 





rope said:


> I own both RCA 6CG7 black plates and GE gray plates.  The GE's are more transparent to my ears and better all around.


 
  I got a set cheap on ebay and have to say they are pretty good!


----------



## paradoxper

Shameless plug: I am selling some Lorenz 2 mica and Mullard CV2493 for $100 flat. See listing.


----------



## mikek200

When I got my first pair of Lorenzes ,they cost me.$299.00...8 months ago
  First pair of Siemens Cca's--$289-
   
  What are you people complaining about
  Paradoxper is almost giving them away..
  Paradoxper & HK,are the 2 finest members of this forum,{among others}..
  Their selling prices are unbelievably low..I have done business with them ,a few times.
   
  Whats all the  bitching & moaning,all about..
  This is still the USA,he can sell then for a $1000.00 a pair ,if he wants to.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





w0lfd0g said:


> I purchased the Lyr (SH) and some tubes (including the Lorenz) from Kremer930 for the total amount of $550.00 AUD.  The Lyr retails here in Australia for $549.00 new and so Kremer930 and I agreed that this was a fair deal.  There was no breakdown of the price on a component by component basis, just a bundle price.
> 
> Initially I was going to use my Meier StageDAC to run the Lyr, but decided it would match well with the Bifrost.  Listed my StageDAC  and Meier Corda Concerto amp for sale in the hope I could fund the Bifrost (with the sale of one, the other or both), but they haven't sold yet.  Therefore, I am parting with the Lorenz tubes to partly fund the SH Bifrost deal, which is only open for a limited time.
> 
> ...


 
  for what its worth ive been using the lyr and stagedac for over a year and like the combo quite a bit. however ive also enjoyed the lyr every time ive plugged it into the bifrost as well.
  Quote: 





rope said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> dailydoseofdaly said:
> ...


 
  im familiar with the 6bq7a, they are real old school, the predecessor to the 6dj8. Not as familiar with the 6gu7, is it a direct substitute for 6cg7/6fq7?


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Official word on 6CG7/6GU7: sure, they'll plug in and bias (Lyr is biased by a constant current source, so as long as the pinout is fine, it'll work), but I suspect the operating point won't be optimal. If the amp was designed for the 6CG7/6GU7, I'd personally run a significantly higher rail, since those tubes are essentially 6SN7s in a 9-pin envelope.


 
  dailydoseofdaly - THIS!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Thanks rope:rolleyes:


----------



## paradoxper

I feel charitable at this point.
   
Lorenz PCC88 Stuttgart 2-mica and Mullard CV2493


----------



## DocPMD

I've spent hours reading this thread and haven't really learned too much.  Most of this stuff is way over my head.  Three days ago if someone had mentioned "tube rolling" I would have guessed they were talking about some new X Games event.
   
  I just bought a pair of Senn HD800's, and my Bifrost and Lyr are in the mail.  Would never have even considered changing the tubes until someone in the thread I started made the suggestion.  Seems crazy to even be considering it before I even listen to the gear, but if there are substantial gains in SQ to be had for a modest investment, why not?
   
  So the question is "what tubes should I get for the gear described above?"  I listen mostly to classic rock, alternative, and some pop.
   
  Would be looking for improved soundstage, and substantial tight bass.  Some describe the top end of the HD800's as hot, but I kind of like them the way they are.  So no real need to tame that.
   
  If I have to spend more than $200 for the pair, I probably won't bother.
   
  Suggestions?


----------



## 333jeffery

The ones that work the best in the Lyr, to my ears anyway, are the Telefunken E288cc tubes. There are several pairs of them for sale on ebay currently. Crystal clarity with lovely warmth to them.


----------



## W0lfd0g

You could try Mullard CV2492 tubes if you are after substantial bass and improved soundstage. 
   
  Here are MrRogers' impressions: 
   
http://vintageaudiotubes.com/?p=1316
   
  Check out eBay (worldwide, not just US).  There are a couple of pairs selling there at the moment (one of the pairs are mine and are only up to $12.98 in the bidding). 
   
  Edit: Found the Mullards to be a bit too warm with my HE-500s, but imagine they would go very well with HD800's, K702's etc.


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





w0lfd0g said:


> You could try Mullard CV2492 tubes if you are after substantial bass and improved soundstage.
> 
> Here are MrRogers' impressions:
> 
> ...


 
   
  I second that.. The CV2492s are an excellent choice for my K701, so they should be pretty good with the HD800. 

 Regarding the HE-500s, that is an interesting observation. I intended on getting a pair and was looking for opinions on how they go with the Mullards. Glad someone brought that up. 

 I don't like overly dark sound, its a bit blurry to me. Hence the reason why I like the K701.


----------



## MickeyVee

I really didn't notice much of a difference in tubes so I sold off my Lorenz Stuttgard off a month or two ago.  I've been pretty happy with the stock GE tubes.. until tonight..
   
  I receive my Bifrost three days ago and have been burning it in for about 12 hours/day running into the Lyr with the GE tubes.  They Lyr started to distort so I pulled the GE tubes and threw in some Mullard CV2492's I got from Tubemonger (the low score ones just to give them a try on the cheap). All I can say is WOW!  These are absolutely awesome with the HD700!!
   
  Hopefully they will last a while. Once I recover form my gear spree, I'll be looking for another pair.


----------



## MickeyVee

I really didn't notice much of a difference in tubes so I sold off my Lorenz Stuttgard off a month or two ago (silly me).  I've been pretty happy with the stock GE tubes.. until tonight..
   
  I received my Bifrost three days ago and have been burning it in for about 12 hours/day running into the Lyr with the GE tubes.  They Lyr started to distort so I pulled the GE tubes and threw in some Mullard CV2492's I got from Tubemonger (the low score ones just to give them a try on the cheap). All I can say is WOW!  These are absolutely awesome with the HD700!! Smooth as silk, great mids and fabulous bass extension.  Makes the HD700 sound like a souped up HD650 with solid, tight, deep bass, fabulous detail in the mids, more open and airy and smooths out the highs.  Dark, airy and balanced with great bass. I know it's a bit of a contradiction but that's what the HD700's are about. I'm actually having a hard time listening to my HE400 now.. go figure.
   
  Hopefully the Mullards will last a while. Once I recover form my gear spree, I'll be looking for another pair.


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Just fired up my Lyr that I got along with about 40 tubes from another Head-fi member.
  So far, I've just rolled four sets of tubes, but can tell you that so far I like the Lorenz bottles
  the best and the 61np 'rocket' tubes as well.  RCA tubes are very smooth and neutral and
  a bit laid back in the bass.  I still have some Amperex 'hollands' to try.
   
  Both the russian and the lorenz have great bass, a slight emphasis in the upper midrange
  and a smooth, clear treble.   Second best amp I have for HD650's.
  Hibuck....


----------



## W0lfd0g

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I don't think it would damage anything, just wasn't sure how it would sound. What do i know. Your the guinea pig on this one, if you want to try them I would definitely like to hear your impressions


 
   
  Some ECC189 tubes arrived yesterday  - A set of NOS NIB German made RCAs (Siemens OEMs? late 1950's?). 
   
  I haven't read anyone's opinion on these in this thread and so decided to act as the guinea pig, using the following set up: PC - Bifrost - Lyr - HE-500's.
   
  Given the voltage dependent gain of these tubes and the potential for non-linearity, I was quite apprehensive because:
   
  1. I'm not even sure what "non-linear" means in this context and
  2. I assumed that "voltage dependent gain" and "non linear" were bad things
   
  Here are some initial impressions.
   
  I listed to them without burning them in and believed my suspicions to have been confirmed: Flabby, uncontrolled bass and not really a pleasant experience in general.  Took the cans off, but left the music going for an hour or two.
   
  When I came back to them I was somewhat surprised.  The flabby bass was gone, replaced by a strong, controlled bass and strong highs.  Perhaps the treble was a little too strong, resulting in sibilance in one or two places I hadn't heard it before and prominent hi-hat sounds that weren't quite as crisp as normal.  The width of the soundstage and dimensionality, however, were spectacularly immersive to my ears.
   
  Have come back to the tubes this afternoon and was disappointed to discover a crackling coming from one of the channels.  Rolled the tubes and confirmed the problem was with the tube and not the amp. 
   
  I will clean the pins when I get the chance (and the change) to buy some solution and hopefully the tubes will have improved.  If not, perhaps its this sample rather than the ECC189 family in general. 
   
  Be keen to know if anyone has already tried tubes like this, but not yet reported their findings.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> When I got my first pair of Lorenzes ,they cost me.$299.00...8 months ago
> First pair of Siemens Cca's--$289-
> 
> What are you people complaining about
> ...


 
  I second that.... and to be point blank on this thread you have to gain respect... some of us rolled from the beginning and went through the learning experience together. We have had nut balls on here claiming the craziest crude rolling is expensive accept it or be happy with what ya got.. Its simple guys!


----------



## mikek200

And my apologies to you,for not putting your name on that list
  Because of you,I got my first Lorenz...remember?..think I paid $95.00
   
  So,I tip my hat to you as well.
   
  Hope all is well with you ?
  & have a good weekend,
   
  Mike


----------



## paradoxper

Just to let ya'll know, the Lorenz went for $85. Bunch of suckers.


----------



## W0lfd0g

MrScary
   
  Have you tried any ECC189 tubes?  You seem to have tried everything else and I would appreciate your input before I spend mega bucks.


----------



## musicinmymind

I want one, what is the best place to buy..Schiit site?
   
http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=3
   
  if yes, it has two options for tubes GE or JJ tubes, which is good option to use with HE-400?
   
  Please suggest


----------



## MickeyVee

I found the stock GE tubes do pretty well with the HE400.
  Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> if yes, it has two options for tubes GE or JJ tubes, which is good option to use with HE-400?
> 
> Please suggest


----------



## Kremer930

Out of the stock tubes most people seem to prefer the GE's. I also didn't mind the Valhalla tubes with my HE6 but some others have differing opinions on that one.


----------



## paradoxper

With the Stock JJ's only, I would have returned Lyr. They're horrible.


----------



## musicinmymind

Thanks for all replay...will go with GE tubes....this will my biggest audiophile investment so extra cautious


----------



## musicinmymind

One more suggestion please,
   
  should I wait till Thanks giving for possible discount from Schiit or buy now?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> One more suggestion please,
> 
> should I wait till Thanks giving for possible discount from Schiit or buy now?


 
  Discount on $20 tube? Nah! If I still had any of my tubes,, I would have sent a pair to ya.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No not on tubes, I do not have amp itself...I need to buy amp to use the tubes, can I expect some thanks giving discount on Lyr amp?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> No not on tubes, I do not have amp itself...I need to buy amp to use the tubes, can I expect some thanks giving discount on Lyr amp?


 
  That's a good wait, but no, I wouldn't expect any discounts. Schiit already offers 
  value, don't'cha be greedy.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> That's a good wait, but no, I wouldn't expect any discounts. Schiit already offers
> value, don't'cha be greedy.


 
   
  Yes agree with you, I have read Schiit's are great value for money....time to press the button
  Thanks for replay


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Musiconmymind I would look at the for sale thread if your looking for a deal on a lyr. Now is the time while folks are jumping on the new amp


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Musiconmymind I would look at the for sale thread if your looking for a deal on a lyr. Now is the time while folks are jumping on the new amp


 
   X2! Yea, some good deals have passed and more are sure to come.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Great...will keep following the sales thread...I can wait for some time...current setup E17->HE-400 is also quite good


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I found the stock GE tubes do pretty well with the HE400.


 
  If I had to forced into that situation it would be simple GE


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> And my apologies to you,for not putting your name on that list
> Because of you,I got my first Lorenz...remember?..think I paid $95.00
> 
> So,I tip my hat to you as well.
> ...


 
 its all good man hahah just because I do not post doesn't mean I haven't been hanging around watching gosh this is my 6th year on this board I cannot believe it time flies 
  How am I doing:  Relaxing for a change learning how... that sounds insane doesn't it? I had no idea how until recently.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





w0lfd0g said:


> MrScary
> 
> Have you tried any ECC189 tubes?  You seem to have tried everything else and I would appreciate your input before I spend mega bucks.


 
  My take on this tube is simple variable Mu, high distortion characteristics, was used as a UHF radio tube just throws so many red flags I would never roll it even if they are dirt cheap...
   
  Sadly at the same time you can once in a purple and pink moon find tubes that are the square peg that should not fit into the round hole and would sound horrible in one amp and great in another so
  my final take on it would be welcome to the world of tube rolling.    They are cheap whats to loose? looking back a few pages it appears others have tried this tube I see no gleeming reviews anywhere 
  or epiphanies write a review on them  and welcome to the tube rolling experience


----------



## W0lfd0g

Thanks - Will persist and see what happens


----------



## jsplice

Well I've got some hours on my new Gold Lion 6922's.  Not exactly sure how I feel about them.  They definitely have low microphonics which is nice; not hearing any more noise from the nearby circuitry.  They don't seem to have as much "bloom" as the GE's, but are more transparent, have more accurate imaging, and better soundstage.  I also want to say they are more extended in the treble than the GE's.


----------



## mikiphile

I just noticed something peculiar about my CV2492 tubes.. I had my amp running for about 4-5 hours now and noticed a dramatically warmer sound than before. I do understand that most tubes get warmer after you keep them running for a while, hence the need to burn them in for 20ish mins before listening, but this much???? 
   
  Like they are VERY warm.... im not sure if its a good thing since im not used to such a warm sound coming from my headphones, but i suppose its rather intersting. What do you guys think?
   
  Listening to Echoes- Pink Floyd, the sound is significantly warmer than when I heard this song a few hours back..


----------



## W0lfd0g

Selling a pair of Lorenz Suttgard tubes for $80.00 if anyone is interested.


----------



## W0lfd0g

No takers for the Lorenz tubes - Sent to eBay (Australia or worldwide) for auction ($19.99)


----------



## mikenike

I've never tube-rolled before, even though I've had the Lyr for a few months now. Finally got myself the 6N1P from Schiit, and loving it! It seems to be shifted towards right, in comparison to the 6BZ7: a little more treble, enough to bring sparkle to music on the HD650. Out of the box, the treble can be troublesome especially in music that's recorded a little hot. It mellows just slightly, but after a day of burning in, it is still like reading a lie detector test: it masks none of the ugly of poorly recorded music.
   
  Definitely has the 3D quality that has been mentioned before. This tube seems really great for the HD650; it complements the HD650's dark and forgiving nature, while the 6BZ7 highlights it.


----------



## jsplice

Been using the Gold Lion's for well over a week now, and I don't know that I can hear anything special about them.  I suppose they sound transparent, but they don't introduce very much of a tube sound at all. Anyone else have experience with these?


----------



## Trance_Gott

I bought Lorenz Stuttgart 3mica. Great sounding tubes.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

trance_gott said:


> I bought Lorenz Stuttgart 3mica. Great sounding tubes but I have a big problem. With my T1 and LCD2 they have a very noticeable hissing in the background. When I hear on low volume it nerves a lot. Has someone else the same problems? Is this common with Lorenz Stuttgart?
> With other tubes I have no noise in the background.




My Lorenz 3mica has an audible hum to it. I remember songmic saying his had a hum too, so maybe it is common. My 2 mica version is very quiet however...

btw Im referring to the pcc88 version


----------



## Trance_Gott

Yes I have the pcc88 version.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

trance_gott said:


> Yes I have the pcc88 version. With the T1 the hum is a bit louder as with LCD2. But noticeable with both in lower volumes.




Its one of my favorite sounding tubes so I just try to ignore the hum, plus I can't hear it when music is playing. Some have had good results with using detoxit on the pins, I need to order some and try it.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Just got a Schiit Lyr. Going to pay very close attention to this thread...


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

dougoftheabaci said:


> Just got a Schiit Lyr. Going to pay very close attention to this thread...




Speaking of hum, how are your efficient denons sounding with the lyr?


----------



## MickeyVee

Doh! I must be doing something wrong or my hearing is off.  After spending hundreds on tubes, I like the stock GE tubes the best.     Here's what I have:     • GE 6BZ7 (mv Stock - 2 Pairs)
  • Amperex 6DJ8 / ECC88 - A-Frame, PQ label
  • Matsu****a E88CC 6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling
  • Mullard CV2492 E88CC 6922 - 1969-1978 Dimple Disc Getter 
   
  Should I try some PCC88?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mickeyvee said:


> Doh! I must be doing something wrong or my hearing is off.  After spending hundreds on tubes, I like the stock GE tubes the best.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You have a lot of warm sounding tubes, maybe a German type( telefunken,siemens,lorenz) might be more your preference?

The pcc88 and ecc88 types I have sound the same to me,as to say there isnt a quality that i hear that makes me say, oh thats a 7dj8.although the price is lower for the most part with the pcc88


----------



## W0lfd0g

I have just sold my Lyr as it does not match well with the AT-W3000ANV I recently purchased. 
   
  However, before doing so I experimented with some ECC189 tubes.  Although I would have liked to have spent more time with them, I found them to work as well as the E888CC and PCC88 families.  Because they are not as popular and their uses are more limited, they are also generally much cheaper.  There are bargains to be had.  My favourite tubes, bar none, were some NOS Telefunken PCC189s. This was while listening to HE-500s (which I have also sold). 
   
  If someone is willing to take my experiments further, I would thoroughly recommend trying them out and reporting back to the thread.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Speaking of hum, how are your efficient denons sounding with the lyr?


 
   
   Don't know. I leant them to my girlfriend and she's managed to break them.
   
  By the way, what did everyone experience in terms of burn-in with the Lyr? I have stock JJ tubes for now.


----------



## Trance_Gott

I cleaned the pins.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

trance_gott said:


> I cleaned the pins with something like detoxit but result is the same.




Darn


----------



## Sort

Have a birthday coming up and would love a few recs for tubes with the unfortunate high-end amount of money being 150. I already blew through my yearly allotment of audiophile gear when I bought the Lyr and Hifiman 500.
   
  I'm still learning the sound of the 500. When I'm only half listening or half awake, I don't get the imaging intuitively or even accept how some of my older MP3's  are just going to sound subpar.
   
  Anyway, for tubes what I'd like is more sound separation, a little more defined bass even with the cost of less bass, of course the blisses of clarity. I'm still with the stock tubes, so shouldn't be too hard to make a mini-leap here. Thanks....


----------



## W0lfd0g

It sounds like you need some telefunken ECC189s.  Until recently I had been using them withmy HE-500 and they have all the characteristics you describe.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





sort said:


> Have a birthday coming up and would love a few recs for tubes with the unfortunate high-end amount of money being 150. I already blew through my yearly allotment of audiophile gear when I bought the Lyr and Hifiman 500.
> 
> I'm still learning the sound of the 500. When I'm only half listening or half awake, I don't get the imaging intuitively or even accept how some of my older MP3's  are just going to sound subpar.
> 
> Anyway, for tubes what I'd like is more sound separation, a little more defined bass even with the cost of less bass, of course the blisses of clarity. I'm still with the stock tubes, so shouldn't be too hard to make a mini-leap here. Thanks....


 
  Mininwatt 6BQ7A has the best separation of all my tubes and a major bass increase over the stock tubes.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Doh! I must be doing something wrong or my hearing is off.  After spending hundreds on tubes, I like the stock GE tubes the best.     Here's what I have:     • GE 6BZ7 (mv Stock - 2 Pairs)
> • Amperex 6DJ8 / ECC88 - A-Frame, PQ label
> • Matsu****a E88CC 6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling
> • Mullard CV2492 E88CC 6922 - 1969-1978 Dimple Disc Getter
> ...


 
   
  I used a new pair of Gold Lion 6922s for a few weeks, and in the meantime received a replacement set of stock GE's from Schiit, as the ones that came with my Lyr were putting out a high pitch noise in one channel.  I popped the GE's back in tonight, and I too for some reason seem to prefer them over the Gold Lions.  Kind of disappointing, as the matched set of Gold Lions were about $90 shipped.  I think the GE's provide a bit more of that "tube sound" which sounds good through the LCD-2s.  I think the Gold Lion 6922s are good if you're looking for nothing but transparency, although the Gold Lions could be a bit more extended as well.  I will have to try another tube eventually, but after spending the money on the Gold Lions, I'm afraid to sink a lot more money for other tubes that don't give much of an improvement (if any) over the stock GE's.


----------



## MickeyVee

I think I'm just going to stick with the stock GE's.  Was looking for some Telefunken and other German tubes but I'm not willing to drop $200 on another set of tubes.  I heard the LCD2 through my system and they're absolutely awesome!  That's probably my next step.
  Quote: 





jsplice said:


> I used a new pair of Gold Lion 6922s for a few weeks, and in the meantime received a replacement set of stock GE's from Schiit, as the ones that came with my Lyr were putting out a high pitch noise in one channel.  I popped the GE's back in tonight, and I too for some reason seem to prefer them over the Gold Lions.  Kind of disappointing, as the matched set of Gold Lions were about $90 shipped.  I think the GE's provide a bit more of that "tube sound" which sounds good through the LCD-2s.  I think the Gold Lion 6922s are good if you're looking for nothing but transparency, although the Gold Lions could be a bit more extended as well.  I will have to try another tube eventually, but after spending the money on the Gold Lions, I'm afraid to sink a lot more money for other tubes that don't give much of an improvement (if any) over the stock GE's.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I think I'm just going to stick with the stock GE's.  Was looking for some Telefunken and other German tubes but I'm not willing to drop $200 on another set of tubes.  I heard the LCD2 through my system and they're absolutely awesome!  That's probably my next step.


 
  Yea man I'm actually very surprised by these stock GE's.  I was almost sure the Gold Lion's would blow them away.  I have a matched quad of the Gold Lion KT88's in my PrimaLuna ProLogue Two integrated speaker amp, and those were a HUGE improvement over the stock KT88s, so I was just assuming the Gold Lion 6922's would give me the same boost over the stock GE's in the Lyr.....wrong.  But like you, I'm reluctant to spend $200+ on tubes for the Lyr only to find out they only provide a marginal improvement over the GE's, especially after spending $90 on the Gold Lions and finding out I prefer the stock ones anyhow.


----------



## tokendog

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> Yea man I'm actually very surprised by these stock GE's.  I was almost sure the Gold Lion's would blow them away.  I have a matched quad of the Gold Lion KT88's in my PrimaLuna ProLogue Two integrated speaker amp, and those were a HUGE improvement over the stock KT88s, so I was just assuming the Gold Lion 6922's would give me the same boost over the stock GE's in the Lyr.....wrong.  But like you, I'm reluctant to spend $200+ on tubes for the Lyr only to find out they only provide a marginal improvement over the GE's, especially after spending $90 on the Gold Lions and finding out I prefer the stock ones anyhow.


 
   
  The 61NP are better in terms of bass for the Lyr with LCD-2 - if that is something that interest you.
  The Matsu 6922s clean up the sound a bit, but seem to lose a little bit of the bass.  Out of the GEs, the 61NPs, and the Matsus, I found the 61NP to be the ones I prefer for the type of music I listen to.
   
  The 61NP also seemed to remove the veil that the GE put on the sound.  Plus, the 61NP only cost $20 for a pair from Schiit.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Sorry to hijack a bit, but what would you guys suggest for a Lyr and HE-500 pairing, in terms of tubes to try? I have the JJ ones form Schiit currently installed. I would be interested in something that might have a bit more low-end bass than the current tubes, but I'd hate to sacrifice anything on the high end, or the soundstage. Any suggestions?


----------



## 333jeffery

Not to sound like a broken record, but the best tubes for the Lyr are the Telefunken E288cc's. Expensive, but they are rated for 10,000 hours of operation. Until you try them, you are only hearing part of what the Lyr is capable of.


----------



## SeaHawk

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> Not to sound like a broken record, but the best tubes for the Lyr are the Telefunken E288cc's. Expensive, but they are rated for 10,000 hours of operation. Until you try them, you are only hearing part of what the Lyr is capable of.


 
   
  Rut roh...


----------



## paradoxper

I think the argument would be made that the best tubes for Lyr are Lorenz and Siemen's. I didn't really care for the Telefunkens. Mullard CV2493 were my fav tube with Lyr though.


----------



## Sort

270 pages of tube rolling to land at what came with the Lyr. Sigh. Maybe I'll hang onto my money to save up for something else. Thanks though for the recs. I will most likely still splurge. dBtubes.com Has anyone bought from them?


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





tokendog said:


> The 61NP are better in terms of bass for the Lyr with LCD-2 - if that is something that interest you.
> The Matsu 6922s clean up the sound a bit, but seem to lose a little bit of the bass.  Out of the GEs, the 61NPs, and the Matsus, I found the 61NP to be the ones I prefer for the type of music I listen to.
> 
> The 61NP also seemed to remove the veil that the GE put on the sound.  Plus, the 61NP only cost $20 for a pair from Schiit.


 
  Interesting.  I may have to pick up a pair of the 61NP just cause they are so cheap.  I would not want to lose any of the bass that I currently have in the GE's, so the 61NP would be a good choice probably.  I'm surprised though that you say the GE's have a "viel".  I don't really notice this.  In fact, I hear a very euphonic and engaging midrange, with fairly decent treble extension (though not the best).  The mids on these tubes is better than the Gold Lions, but it is probably a coloration.  But hey, if we didn't want coloration of some type, we wouldn't own tube amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I think I may have to grab the Mullards for my birthday, but that isn't until December.  Until then, the GE's sound great with the LCD-2s.


----------



## Rope

The GE 6BQ7A is no slouch when comparing to the big tube picture and the price make them more attractive.  Look on Tube Depot, they shouldn't be more than $4.00 per tube matched.
   
  I found the Russian 6N1P military to be acceptable, although they run hot since the heater current is higher, but they're bested by the GE's.  Mullard tend to be warm sounding, so I match them with a "hotter" headphone, tone down the bright/treble sound.


----------



## Trance_Gott

I sell my Lorenz Stuttgart 3mica.


----------



## SeaHawk

Interested here, but wondering how bad that hissing would be with Grados (32 ohm) - anyone out there try the 3 micas with low impedance headphones?  Does the impedance affect the hiss?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

seahawk said:


> Interested here, but wondering how bad that hissing would be with Grados (32 ohm) - anyone out there try the 3 micas with low impedance headphones?  Does the impedance affect the hiss?




I went to a friends house and brought my lyr with the Lorenz 2micas, which on my lcd2&3 are totally quiet. I tried them out with his grado hf-1,hf-2,and rs-1 and was surprised to hear how noisey the tubes were. The grados were really sensitive(7:30/8 was pretty loud) and they made the noise floor really prevalent when music wasn't playing.

Edit
I will add though with the lcd2 the Lorenz 3 mica is probably my favorite tube. It sounds really nice regardless of genre or a small hum.


----------



## Trance_Gott

When I use my Lyr with low sensitive headphones I use an 120Ohm adapter. Result is that I can drive my W1000x and Denon AH-A100 without any background noise.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Here I sell my Lorenz Stuttgart 3mica:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/628027/lorenz-stuttgart-3mica-pcc88-best-offer


----------



## SeaHawk

I've used an inline attenuator for trying my Shure 530's with the Lyr (yes, looking for trouble), but I have to wonder if adding a 120Ohm load would change the frequency response or other aspects of the headphone.  I would hope the amp would be stable enough (and definitely powerful enough) to drive the load regardless, but admittedly, my knowledge in this area isn't that keen.


----------



## DamageInc77

Anybody try these out in their Lyr?
   
http://www.hotroxuk.com/genalex-gold-lion-6922-e88cc.html
   
  Were they any good?


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> Anybody try these out in their Lyr?
> 
> http://www.hotroxuk.com/genalex-gold-lion-6922-e88cc.html
> 
> Were they any good?


 
  Yep, me.  Read further back in the thread for my comments on them.  Should be within the last month.


----------



## UNCHeelYeah

I have had a similar experience with Russian tubes, NOS from 1968.  They even had an insert printed on green paper that showed missiles flying lol.  Good tubes though, I think I paid @ $7 a set, and they basically hammered the stock GE's for the Lyr.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





uncheelyeah said:


> I have had a similar experience with Russian tubes, NOS from 1968.  They even had an insert printed on green paper that showed missiles flying lol.  Good tubes though, I think I paid @ $7 a set, and they basically hammered the stock GE's for the Lyr.


 
  Nice.  What specific things were better about them over the GEs?  Do you remember where you ordered them from?


----------



## Rope

UNCHeelYeah is referring to Russian Rockets, manufactured in Voskhod militaty plant, Kaluga City, Russia.


----------



## SeaHawk

FWIW, just had one of my Tubemonger socket savers fail.  Nothing electrical - the 9 pin socket on top fell within the (I guess ceramic?) body, and unable to force it back to the top to reseat/reglue it in place.  Send them a note asking about warranty, but not finding anything mentioning guarantee or warranty on anything but actual tubes on their site.
   
  Any deal with this situation yet, as these seem to be fairly popular with Lyr owners?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> I sell my Lorenz Stuttgart 3mica. They have a noticeable hissing in the background on lowest volume. With my T1 it is more noticeable as with the LCD2. With LCD2 the noise is very low. When you play music on normal level it is not noticeable. Others like daylydoseofdaly have the same background noise with the 3micas. But I'm not a tube expert and don't know if it is normal. Because it disturb me (I hear often on very low volume) I sell them. I can imagine that for other users this little hissing is a fart.
> 
> PM me if you are interested.


 

 This is a common problem with all tubes even brand new they can be bad from the factory this is not brand dependent. Firstly no one will want them if they are hissing that is a sign that one will be go out how long who knows there is not gurantee with tubes.
  Now consider the fact you have tubes that were built 50+ years ago. There never is any gurantee you will buy a set of tubes and they will last the ETBF 5,7 or 10,000 hours.. I have bought NOS tubes and had the Siemens CCa's out out in a week..
  Then I bought a used set of Mullards and they have gone thousands of hours.. I have has 5 sets of the Lorenz I had one set go out one of the tubes in ohhhh 2hours...
   
  You cannot sell them to anyone that has a brain I would give you .99 cents and I am not joking.
   
  Do some research learn about the technology..


----------



## SeaHawk

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> FWIW, just had one of my Tubemonger socket savers fail.  Nothing electrical - the 9 pin socket on top fell within the (I guess ceramic?) body, and unable to force it back to the top to reseat/reglue it in place.  Send them a note asking about warranty, but not finding anything mentioning guarantee or warranty on anything but actual tubes on their site.
> 
> Any deal with this situation yet, as these seem to be fairly popular with Lyr owners?
> 
> Thanks!


 
   
  Followup - they responded after a few hours (after hours Pacific time!) and said they'll just ship a new one out.  Also said they've seen a handful of these, but the rate is under 1%.  Thinking about adding a bit of extra glue on the other one now


----------



## conquerator2

Hi guys.
  I ll be buying the Lyr/HE-500 combo.
  Which of the three tubes shippable by Schiit audio would fit best?
  The E88CC, 6N1P or the 6BZ7?
  Thanks!


----------



## Lee Harvey

The 6N1P tubes.  But that's my opinion.  I have the 6BZ7's and the 6N1P's and I think they have better clarity over the 6BZ7's that Schiit offers.


----------



## conquerator2

K thanks!Any other reasonably priced tubes that go well with the Lyr-HE~500?


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





w0lfd0g said:


> This link might be interest to some you history/engineering nuts.  It's a documentary made by Mullard showing the manufacturing process of tubes at their Blackburn plant.  Looks like it was made in the early to mid 60's.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y&feature=related


 
   
  Thank you for the link --- That's a beautiful film ... all that great machinery (including "early robots" looks to me) - it seemed earlier than 1960s to me---but I do not know the history, in fact, watched it with the sound off.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Waiting for some offers to my Lorenz Stuttgart 3mica...
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/628027/lorenz-stuttgart-3mica-pcc88-best-offer


----------



## conquerator2

Hi guys how would the Electro-harmonix 6922/E88CC (gold pin) (http://www.audiophonics.fr/electroharmonix-6922e88cc-broches-plaque-goldpin-p-6161.html) sound with the Lyr?
  They are not too expenisve.
  Would they be an improvement over the stock tubes?
  How would they be in terms of bass?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## SeaHawk

Quote: 





seahawk said:


> Followup - they responded after a few hours (after hours Pacific time!) and said they'll just ship a new one out.  Also said they've seen a handful of these, but the rate is under 1%.  Thinking about adding a bit of extra glue on the other one now


 
   
  Post Mortem - they replaced both of the socket savers (the failed and the good one), and these seem to be slightly updated, so they gave me a new matching set.  Hats off to Tubemonger - they took the initiative and have me back up and running, and I have a spare that I'm loaning to a coworker with a tube amp that was interested in his own set and wondered how it would look


----------



## sperandeo

Hey everyone, here is just a reminder that the Schitt Lyr contest/giveaway at Gearphile.com is happening in 2 days. If you haven't entered the free contest enter now.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> Hi guys how would the Electro-harmonix 6922/E88CC (gold pin) (http://www.audiophonics.fr/electroharmonix-6922e88cc-broches-plaque-goldpin-p-6161.html) sound with the Lyr?
> They are not too expenisve.
> Would they be an improvement over the stock tubes?
> How would they be in terms of bass?
> ...


 
  I have not heard them in my Lyr, but I used to own the Electro Harmonix 12AX7's for an old phono pre that I had.  They were extremely warm sounding, and after reading through the comments in the rest of this thread, the EH 6922 seem to share that same sound signature.  It might depend on what headphones you're using.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> I have not heard them in my Lyr, but I used to own the Electro Harmonix 12AX7's for an old phono pre that I had.  They were extremely warm sounding, and after reading through the comments in the rest of this thread, the EH 6922 seem to share that same sound signature.  It might depend on what headphones you're using.


 
  Primarily with the HE-500


----------



## jsplice

Can anyone recommend a tube that would be similar to the Gold Lion 6922 but with more/better bass?  The GL 6922 have great transparency in the mids, but I find the bass to be very lacking.


----------



## MrScary

The Siemens E88CC  have tremendous bass but they are vintage tubes if you are after great bass you wll surely either need to change something in your signal chain or start spilling out the cash for Vintage tubes..
  The Lorenz Mica's also have tremendous bass if you can find a pair.. Their are others but every tube is dependent on your audio chain not one tube suits every headphone , DAC and the Lyr not counting your souce..
   
  So get ready to spill some bucks... The truth is being an Audiophile is expensive as Schiit..


----------



## Trance_Gott

The first few hours I reported a little hissing with my Lorenz Stuttgart 3mica. Last night 20hours later it is gone! I cannot believe.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Currently my headphone cash box is empty so I sell it now for a very good price.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/628027/lorenz-stuttgart-3mica-pcc88-best-offer


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> The first few hours I reported a little hissing with my Lorenz Stuttgart 3mica. Last night 20hours later it is gone! I cannot believe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  MSRP is $140.  You're selling used tubes for more than retail NOS.
   
  Also, I'm not sure why you keep continually plugging your FS items in this thread.  You don't need to repeat yourself.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Okay when you have NOS for 140USD I will take it immediately


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> MSRP is $140.  You're selling used tubes for more than retail NOS.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure why you keep continually plugging your FS items in this thread.  You don't need to repeat yourself.


 
  He got those for under $100. JS


----------



## Trance_Gott

paradoxper said:


> He got those for under $100. JS



Yes with hissing and you don't answer me to the PM that I wanted to send them back to you weeks ago. When you want to speak further then PM me but over the thread I don't want to communicate with you.


----------



## Trance_Gott

So closed. I Keep them. I have no desire to sell them further.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> Yes with hissing and you don't answer me to the PM that I wanted to send them back to you weeks ago. When you want to speak further then PM me but over the thread I don't want to communicate with you.


 
  Since you want to drag my name through the mud.
   
  I told you to send them back to me. You opened up a PP dispute with me. You then closed it.
   
  But before you did any of that....you put the damn tubes up for sale. So get your story straight.
   
  Sorry for airing dirty laundry, I do apologize.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Since you want to drag my name through the mud.
> 
> I told you to send them back to me. You opened up a PP dispute with me. You then closed it.
> 
> ...


 
  Just so everyone knows.....
   
  Please make note:
  I have done business with this guy before--he is a walking nightmare.
  Always demanding lower prices ..
  Always demanding special ways of avoiding taxes,on out of country purchases
  Needed special notations,written on the box,so customs would think it is of lower value
  And after all that-wants it delivered tomorrow-then argues with you about the postal rates.
   
  The prices Para sold the tubes to him ,were not a sale price-THEY WERE A GIFT!!..the highest quality Lorenz tubes
   
  He should be banned from this forum...
   
  Para,you got my back on this one,if you need it...always,
  Mike


----------



## Trance_Gott

Yes, i put them up for sale after you not communicate with me but with a right description about the hissing.
I'm a fair guy but you not. You have sell me tubes without a word of hissing.
Sorry, you are te bad guy not I.
And yet keep quiet...
I no further want to communicate in this thread. I believe that paradoxper in the meantime made fair business but not with me.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Gentleman, you can't fight in here; this is the war room!
   
  Dragging the thread—kicking and screaming—back onto topic, what would others recommend for a first tube? I got the JJ E88CC tubes with my Lyr. Just looking to get a sense of how the sound can change with different tubes.
   
  ALAC > BitPerfect > Bifrost > Lyr > HE-500.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Gentleman, you can't fight in here; this is the war room!
> 
> Dragging the thread—kicking and screaming—back onto topic, what would others recommend for a first tube? I got the JJ E88CC tubes with my Lyr. Just looking to get a sense of how the sound can change with different tubes.
> 
> ALAC > BitPerfect > Bifrost > Lyr > HE-500.


 
  Yes Boss!
   
  Try out the GE's. They are heavily favored over the stock JJ's. From there you can really go anywhere. Some affordable options are the RCA black plates and clear tops.
  Some Gold Lions or Nationals.


----------



## Raptor34

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Gentleman, you can't fight in here; this is the war room!
> 
> Dragging the thread—kicking and screaming—back onto topic, what would others recommend for a first tube? I got the JJ E88CC tubes with my Lyr. Just looking to get a sense of how the sound can change with different tubes.
> 
> ALAC > BitPerfect > Bifrost > Lyr > HE-500.


 

 I just tried the 6N1P's out of my Valhalla.  They are definitely a warmer sounding tube than the GE's.  Maybe a tad on the lush side.  Since I started with the GE's I still like them the best though.  Tube rolling is very confusing.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Yes Boss!
> 
> Try out the GE's. They are heavily favored over the stock JJ's. From there you can really go anywhere. Some affordable options are the RCA black plates and clear tops.
> Some Gold Lions or Nationals.


 
   
  Sorry, I couldn't resist the opportunity for a good Dr. Strange Love reference.
   
  By the GE's, do you mean the stock GE 6BZ7 NOS tubes? I'll give them a shot.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Sorry, I couldn't resist the opportunity for a good Dr. Strange Love reference.
> 
> By the GE's, do you mean the stock GE 6BZ7 NOS tubes? I'll give them a shot.


 
  Hahah. Refrain from your cheeky-ness.
   
  Yea, I don't know how hesitant you are to drop a few bucks for some of the higher priced tubes. So starting out, usually it's a JJ or GE choice. The favor
  is for the GE's, and they're cheap, so it's not a bad place to start, experiment and go from there.


----------



## MrScary

Dear me now we have people not understanding tubes.. and whining and they confuse themselves due to just being dumb Wow! And blaming others Paradoxer I feel for ya... I have been there...


----------



## Trance_Gott

And how can you explain me that the hissing is gone? I had cleaned the pins and so on but nothing helps to eliminate the hissing. But after 20hours of burn in it was gone..
  But actually no matter what happens. I now have a hissing free Lorenz 3mica and I'm happy with them and don't want to sell them.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Hahah. Refrain from your cheeky-ness.
> 
> Yea, I don't know how hesitant you are to drop a few bucks for some of the higher priced tubes. So starting out, usually it's a JJ or GE choice. The favor
> is for the GE's, and they're cheap, so it's not a bad place to start, experiment and go from there.


 
   
   I ordered the GE's, hoping they come by the end of the week so I can listen to them over the weekend.


----------



## SeaHawk

Maybe there's a reason to burn-in NOS tubes?  Just sayin'...


----------



## yokken

Got a Lyr on the way from Schiit and some HD600s on the way from a member. Extremely excited to try the Lyr with my DT880s (250ohm) compared to my E17 (got an ODAC on the way too... lol) and see how the HD600s perform with the E17 vs the Lyr. I'm sure it will be no contest, but it will prove an interesting experiment! Not planning on getting any new tubes for a LONG time... I've spent over a grand on headphones and headphone equipment in the past 3 weeks.


----------



## tokendog

Quote: 





yokken said:


> Got a Lyr on the way from Schiit and some HD600s on the way from a member. Extremely excited to try the Lyr with my DT880s (250ohm) compared to my E17 (got an ODAC on the way too... lol) and see how the HD600s perform with the E17 vs the Lyr. I'm sure it will be no contest, but it will prove an interesting experiment! Not planning on getting any new tubes for a LONG time... I've spent over a grand on headphones and headphone equipment in the past 3 weeks.


 
   
  You only live once, and you lose your hearing the older you get.   Enjoy it while you can.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





tokendog said:


> You only live once, and you lose your hearing the older you get.   Enjoy it while you can.


 
   
   Only if you don't take care of it.


----------



## tokendog

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Only if you don't take care of it.


 
   
  Nah, I mean there are things you can do to slow the loss of hearing down at any age, but after a certain point nature pretty much assumes you don't need it as much to survive as you did when you were younger.   The loss of hearing quickly increases in comparison to your age after a certain point.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> And how can you explain me that the hissing is gone? I had cleaned the pins and so on but nothing helps to eliminate the hissing. But after 20hours of burn in it was gone..
> But actually no matter what happens. I now have a hissing free Lorenz 3mica and I'm happy with them and don't want to sell them.


 
  Trance_Gott
   
  To explain to you why the hissing went away is simple when tubes get  shipped around they are analog devices tubes get  moved around the getter get's shaken up.. After usually 6-30 hours of burn in time is typically goes away.
  Now this is a known issue and is on this thread and has been posted many times. I would suggest in the future you do research...
   
   
  Good luck and enjoy one of the best tubes for your Lyr.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





tokendog said:


> Nah, I mean there are things you can do to slow the loss of hearing down at any age, but after a certain point nature pretty much assumes you don't need it as much to survive as you did when you were younger.   The loss of hearing quickly increases in comparison to your age after a certain point.


 
   
   SHHHHHH!!! My hearing will always be as good as it is now. La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la...


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

So my GE's arrived today. I only just got the home and put them in my Lyr and I can already hear the difference. The bass is much more present (in a way I quite like). It feels much closer to my Heir Audio 4.A's now than it did before. I can see why they were the default tubes. I should have trusted them!
   
  Still, now I have extras.


----------



## justie

I currently have a set of GE 6BZ7s in my Lyr which came stock with my Lyr. Im a bit curious about tube rolling and was wondering if anybody can please give me some advice on where I should start with this without spending too much right from the get go? Thanks for ur help guys


----------



## dc-k

Quote: 





justie said:


> I currently have a set of GE 6BZ7s in my Lyr which came stock with my Lyr. Im a bit curious about tube rolling and was wondering if anybody can please give me some advice on where I should start with this without spending too much right from the get go? Thanks for ur help guys


 
   
   
  I was in your position a couple of months ago and read through this entire thread (took me a while, but I learned a lot...). If you can't face that approach, in my view, this post http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/3240#post_8394257 was one of the best summaries and this link http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8 one of the best pointers given.
   
  Others may have a different view and I may well have missed or forgotten many equally useful thoughts...


----------



## jwusoccer

Hey everyone, i'm wondering what the best tubes for the hd650s are. I've been looking through this thread, but there are just way to many tubes to make a decision. I would like to keep it under 50 if possible. If not, definitely under 100. Thanks in advance!


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





jwusoccer said:


> Hey everyone, i'm wondering what the best tubes for the hd650s are. I've been looking through this thread, but there are just way to many tubes to make a decision. I would like to keep it under 50 if possible. If not, definitely under 100. Thanks in advance!


 
   
  +1
   
  Now I am using Stock GE tubes, any suggestion will be big welcome. Looking to improve on sub-bass, a bit more extension will be awesome.
   
  I am very much happy with imaging, speed and soundstage and with Lyr....HD-650 does not sound dark and mid-high range is perfectly placed for my liking.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





jwusoccer said:


> Hey everyone, i'm wondering what the best tubes for the hd650s are. I've been looking through this thread, but there are just way to many tubes to make a decision. I would like to keep it under 50 if possible. If not, definitely under 100. Thanks in advance!


 
  My two personal favorites with the HD650s are the Miniwatt 6BQ7As (around $50) and of course the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 (more expensive).


----------



## justie

someone is sellign some tubes in the for sale section but since im a complete noob on this, I was wondering how different they will sound comapred to the GE 6BZ7 i have in my Lyr. The tubes in question are
   
   

 Brimar CV2492 Vintage 1960's
 Amperex E88CC A-Frame Orange Label & Globe Logo


----------



## Meoow

Quick question:
   
  I own mostly Audio Techinca headphones, should I get Woo Audio WA6 or Schitt Lyr considering I will not play around with tubes.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





meoow said:


> Quick question:
> 
> I own mostly Audio Techinca headphones, should I get Woo Audio WA6 or Schitt Lyr considering I will not play around with tubes.


 
  WA6.


----------



## aqsw

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> SHHHHHH!!! My hearing will always be as good as it is now. La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la...


 
  WHAT!!!


----------



## Uchiya

I can't recommend the 74 Siemens E88cc's with the Lyr/Bifrost combo.  The highs were incredibly harsh.


----------



## Kojaku

What's the airiest, most spacious and crispest treble tube you guys know of that doesn't degrade the natural mids and bass quality of the LCD-2 Rev. 2?
   
  Kojaku


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> What's the airiest, most spacious and crispest treble tube you guys know of that doesn't degrade the natural mids and bass quality of the LCD-2 Rev. 2?
> 
> Kojaku


 
  CCa Siemens & Halske E88CC, or Lorenz PC88 Stuttgart.


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





rope said:


> CCa Siemens & Halske E88CC, or Lorenz PC88 Stuttgart.


 

 Care to detail the differences between the two? They both go for around 20 online...
   
  Kojaku


----------



## W0lfd0g

If you can find these as genuine NOS tubes for $20.00 a pair, buy up big and buy quick.


----------



## Kojaku

Ok well bidding on those just skyrocketed haha xD...so how about the tubes Schiit offers? Between the JJs, 6N1Ps and the GE's which has the most expansive, airy presentation, with crisp treble without muddying up the rest of the FQ response on the LCD2 Rev. 2?

Kojaku


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Ok well bidding on those just skyrocketed haha xD...
> Kojaku


 
  LOL. I was about to say What


----------



## Kojaku

Yeah so how about dem stock tubes? Which ones are best for what I mentioned earlier ?
   
  Kojaku


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Yeah so how about dem stock tubes? Which ones are best for what I mentioned earlier ?
> 
> Kojaku


 
  So far in the Lyr I've only heard the GE's, JJ's, and Gold Lion 6922.  Obviously out of those 3 the GL's are the "best", but the GE's I'd say are better than the JJ's, and most I think would share that opinion, based on all the other replies in the thread.


----------



## paradoxper

GE's. It seems pretty much unanimous. the JJ's feel flat across the spectrum. But YMMV.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Care to detail the differences between the two? They both go for around 20 online...
> 
> Kojaku


 
   
  The differences are in this thread however, hidden and I myself never updated a very old list of tubes. Just an idea because every persons equipment is different.
  The CCa Simens & Halske have an incredible 3d sound stage with the right equipment sadly they are a tad shy on bass if one refuses to even EQ if you Eq they are unmatched all around..
  Howerver, haha the Lorenz ummm have great bass good sound stage and hard as hell to find unless someone on the board has a set they are being nice enough to sell or the freak find elsewhere they are basically an extinct tube.
   
  I have been fortunate a year and a half ago to steel CCa's from a new seller but for most people they are going to go from anywhere from 200.XX up were are a huge amount of these tubes made but
  people horde them then sell them it goes in spurts as with all the Vintage tubes that have been found and are around some Tubes are gone pretty much for the common person....
   
  You will never get them for 20.00 unless someone like cracked them then sold them as glass parts


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> I can't recommend the 74 Siemens E88cc's with the Lyr/Bifrost combo.  The highs were incredibly harsh.


 

 YOu are 100% correct on these tubes the Simens E88CC's made in the 70's are horrid sounding so bad that I have never been able to get them to sound good.. However, I have a set from the early 60's and they are totally different sound similar to the CCa's but without as much 3d space..
  Be cautious with the Simens tubes


----------



## Uchiya

I'm more shocked at the price tubemonger was selling them for, that I paid for..  Customer Beware.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> I'm more shocked at the price tubemonger was selling them for, that I paid for..  Customer Beware.


 
  What did you pay if you don't mind me asking? I do not use tubemonger accept for the Lorenz when they were around I bought a huge amount.. just curious or nevermind I am tired I will just see if they have any..
  I think the funniest one I have seen is some guy on ebay that for like a year was selling a set of CCa's early 60's it appeard hard to 100% identify for over 650.00 for a set.


----------



## preproman

All,
   
  New to this thread.  Trying to decide on a good inexpensive amp to start out with.  It's come down to the Lyr and the Little Dot MK VI+.  Are there any companions between the two I can take a look at?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





preproman said:


> All,
> 
> New to this thread.  Trying to decide on a good inexpensive amp to start out with.  It's come down to the Lyr and the Little Dot MK VI+.  Are there any companions between the two I can take a look at?


 
   
  You're kidding....dual monos and a B22....and you're in the Lyr rolling thread?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> You're kidding....dual monos and a B22....and you're in the Lyr rolling thread?


 
   
  yeah man - I have no tubes.  I really want a ECBA but I want to live with a more inexpensive amp first to decide if I like it or not before I go for the "gold".


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





preproman said:


> yeah man - I have no tubes.  I really want a ECBA but I want to live with a more inexpensive amp first to decide if I like it or not before I go for the "gold".


 
   
  Fair enough! It's a good plan.  For me I love tubes and tube rolling...and I love Lyr for that, but tubes can also be an aggrivating enough venture that I'm not sure I want my high-end amps to be tube.  I had my eye on a WA22 for HD650 (and now HD800) for a while, but thinking about the trials of tubes, I'm actually looking at Mjolnir, which has the side effect of being much cheaper too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Though Lyr happens to be spectacular with HD650 and not half bad with HD800 either!
   
  But yeah, part of me will always like tubes.  I just hate messing with big power tubes...Lyr's nice about that with the whole hybrid thing.  Haven't tried the LDMkVI+ though, so I'll bow out and let others respond to that one!


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





preproman said:


> yeah man - I have no tubes.  I really want a ECBA but I want to live with a more inexpensive amp first to decide if I like it or not before I go for the "gold".


 
   
  It may be of import that the ECBA is a tube amp, while the Lyr is a hybrid.  The latter may not be representative of the former (or of tube sound in general).


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> It may be of import that the ECBA is a tube amp, while the Lyr is a hybrid.  The latter may not be representative of the former (or of tube sound in general).


 
   
   
  Good point..  I just wanted to get the feel of the whole tube rolling thing.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Good point..  I just wanted to get the feel of the whole tube rolling thing.


 
   
  It's something that can turn into an addiction quickly.  How badly you become addicted depends on your personality and the tube type in question.  If you think the ECC88/E88CC/6DJ8/6922 etc. tube rolling presents complex possibilities, by comparison there is almost an endless number of 6SN7 variants available for rolling, which may potentially lead to an addiction that's *far* worse.
   
  You're playing with fire.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> It's something that can turn into an addiction quickly.  How badly you become addicted depends on your personality and the tube type in question.  If you think the ECC88/E88CC/6DJ8/6922 etc. tube rolling presents complex possibilities, by comparison there is almost an endless number of 6SN7 variants available for rolling, which may potentially lead to an addiction that's *far* worse.
> 
> You're playing with fire.


 
  This is silly. He'll get a stock pair and only buy 1 other pair for either backup or slight variety. And be allllllllllllll set.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> This is silly. He'll get a stock pair and only buy 1 other pair for either backup or slight variety. And be allllllllllllll set.


 
   
  Nothing bad will happen, I promise.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Nothing bad will happen, I promise.


 
  I'm hoping for quite the opposite. I'd like to hear the prep man weep from wallet emptyitis.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> It's something that can turn into an addiction quickly.  How badly you become addicted depends on your personality and the tube type in question.  If you think the ECC88/E88CC/6DJ8/6922 etc. tube rolling presents complex possibilities, by comparison there is almost an endless number of 6SN7 variants available for rolling, which may potentially lead to an addiction that's *far* worse.
> 
> *You're playing with fire.*


 
   
  Words to live by....
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> This is silly. He'll get a stock pair and only buy 1 other pair for either backup or slight variety. And be allllllllllllll set.


 
   
  You're right.  Someone should donate him a Lyr and a set of tubes.  So he can try it out just the once...  One time can't hurt... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I'm hoping for quite the opposite. I'd like to hear the prep man weep from wallet emptyitis.


 
   
  Within a month he'll have spent enough on tubes to buy a whole 7.1 surround of those Emo monoblocks..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  C'mon prep, just give it a try, all the cool headphiles are doing it....


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Words to live by....
> 
> 
> You're right.  Someone should donate him a Lyr and a set of tubes.  So he can try it out just the once...  One time can't hurt...
> ...


 
   
  I disagree and am offended


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> I disagree and am offended


 
  LOL. What....Why...He's crazy!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> LOL. What....Why...He's crazy!


 
   
  For a limited time you can enroll in our tube addition management classes at iemcrazy4audio.com.  Hurry spaces are limited and selling out fast!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> For a limited time you can enroll in our tube addition management classes at iemcrazy4audio.com.  Hurry spaces are limited and selling out fast!


 
  LOL!!! All I'ma say is...I better get a darn discount!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> LOL!!! All I'ma say is...I better get a darn discount!


 

 Your pioneer customer status does not entitle you to a discount on tube addition management classes, however, the first five enrolees will receive a free mystery tube (*) to fuel their newly managed tube addiction!
   
  (*Free mystery tube must be accompanied by purchase of a matching tube at double the price marked.)


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Your pioneer customer status does not entitle you to a discount on tube addition management classes, however, the first five enrolees will receive a free mystery tube (*) to fuel their newly managed tube addiction!
> 
> (*Free mystery tube must be accompanied by purchase of a matching tube at double the price marked.)


 
  I thought we were friends. After all I've supported you through. Cool. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sign me up anyways! Do you see my undawging support..
   
  Wait..I don't have a tube amp. Never mind.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I thought we were friends. After all I've supported you through. Cool.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  LOL!
   
  Perhaps something in my tube monoblock department would interest you then.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (Now we get to draw a lottery to bet if paradox or prepro will hit me first.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> LOL!
> 
> Perhaps something in my tube monoblock department would interest you then....
> 
> ...


 
  Well, sadly, I'm just not into hype. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Wait, wait, wait prep, don't hurt me!


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Well, sadly, I'm just not into hype.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ow dont spoil the fun!
   
  I will do it


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> Ow dont spoil the fun!
> 
> I will do it


 
  Looks like I just got an out.


----------



## preproman

Wait --  500 watt Mono Blocks tube amps to drive the HE-6s  - I'm all in - just show me the way.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Looks like I just got an out.


 
   
  Only because prep hasn't read it yet


----------



## preproman

Just wait til I start the "HYPE" train on the 500 tube watt mono blocks.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Only because prep hasn't read it yet


 
  Well, thanks for the reminder.
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> Just wait til I start the "HYPE" train on the 500 watt mono blocks.


 
  Conquerator2 will step in from here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I say you do it prep, you show us how to empty that wallet.


----------



## preproman

Naw - I'll pass and let the new guy have all the fun.  Go ahead Conquerator2 you got it from here.


----------



## Kojaku

So I'm listening on GBZ7s right now. I couldn't STAND the JJs. Damn incoherent sounding. So little spacial data, it's frustrating. The GBZ7 is much more competent in terms of staging, but MAN I find the highest treble registers hot! The bass is FINE. I feel like I got much better definition on my old  Asgard, but overall staging has opened up and there's much more juiciness to the sound. 
   
  Now, I don't personally want to spend anything more than $40 shipped for tubes at this point, but I really need something with slightly less hot treble and more bass impact and definition. I have a feeling my tolerance for treble heat is far less than I originally anticipated. Of course I don't want to sacrifice extension and airiness. Any suggestions?
   
  Kojaku


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> So I'm listening on GBZ7s right now. I couldn't STAND the JJs. Damn incoherent sounding. So little spacial data, it's frustrating. The GBZ7 is much more competent in terms of staging, but MAN I find the highest treble registers hot! The bass is FINE. I feel like I got much better definition on my old  Asgard, but overall staging has opened up and there's much more juiciness to the sound.
> 
> Now, I don't personally want to spend anything more than $40 shipped for tubes at this point, but I really need something with slightly less hot treble and more bass impact and definition. I have a feeling my tolerance for treble heat is far less than I originally anticipated. Of course I don't want to sacrifice extension and airiness. Any suggestions?
> 
> Kojaku


 
  Put a hundred hours on the GE's.  They'll change and like any tube...patience.
   
  I agree, the JJ's suck swamp water.


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





rope said:


> Put a hundred hours on the GE's.  They'll change and like any tube...patience.
> 
> I agree, the JJ's suck swamp water.


 
  So what would you recommend I roll next with my tastes though, in that $30-$40 range?
   
  Kojaku


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> So what would you recommend I roll next with my tastes though, in that $30-$40 range?
> 
> Kojaku


 
   
   I went form the JJ's to the GE's and there is a world of distance. They're a stock set form Schiit. They're cheap and they're better than the JJ's in every way. Want more bass?  You got it. Want a fuller sound? Bam, son.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Wait --  500 watt Mono Blocks tube amps to drive the HE-6s  - I'm all in - just show me the way.


 
   
  Does anyone else smell something funny.....?


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Does anyone else smell something funny.....?


 
  Uh...did you fart?


----------



## thisthingz

Hey all,

 I glanced through the thread with the search function- but couldn't find a current answer.
  What tubes do you guys think will pair best with a T1? Both best for the money- and best in general would be very appreciated. I'm using a lyr/bifrost setup.
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## conquerator2

Wouldnt SS be better for T1?


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> Wouldnt SS be better for T1?


 
  No....Valhalla would be better for something with such a ridiculously high impedance...Although the Lyr is just fine for either High-Impedance or High-Efficiency cans.
   
  Kojaku


----------



## jsplice

I'm still trying to accept the Gold Lion tubes as my all-rounder tubes, but I just don't think they'll do the job. Everything these tubes do is spectacular, except for the bass.  I just feel as though the bass quantity is insufficient at times.  I'm ok with this about 80%, but it's that other 20% of the time that I think will eventually lead me to other tubes.  I'm thinking of picking up some Mullards for my birthday, although I'm not sure they'd be the best combo with the LCD-2.2's.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> I'm still trying to accept the Gold Lion tubes as my all-rounder tubes, but I just don't think they'll do the job. Everything these tubes do is spectacular, except for the bass.  I just feel as though the bass quantity is insufficient at times.  I'm ok with this about 80%, but it's that other 20% of the time that I think will eventually lead me to other tubes.  I'm thinking of picking up some Mullards for my birthday, although I'm not sure they'd be the best combo with the LCD-2.2's.


 
  Mullards are the way to go, they'll fill the need of an everyday tube, while remaining an all-rounder.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Mullards are the way to go, they'll fill the need of an everyday tube, while remaining an all-rounder.


 

 This. ^^^
   
  Loving those Mullards!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> This. ^^^
> 
> Loving those Mullards!


 
  You better! Or I'd be forced to request you send 'em to me. So you can move on with your life. Minus the me sending your money back.


----------



## DamageInc77

Anybody ever purchased from Mullard Magic UK? I can only buy from Europe so my options are rather limited.
   
  I was thinking about purchasing the matched pair which is the second item on this page: http://www.mullardmagic.co.uk/mullard/products/269-triode-ecc88-e88cc-6922-cv2492-gold-pin-valve-mullard.aspx .


----------



## Y2HBK

Will the Lyr + Bifrost be sufficient for HD800's? I'd like to experiment with tubes, but don't want to wish I would have went Mjolnir + Gungnir.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> Will the Lyr + Bifrost be sufficient for HD800's? I'd like to experiment with tubes, but don't want to wish I would have went Mjolnir + Gungnir.


 
   
  I think you'll wish you'd went with Mjolnir/Gungnir 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Don't get me wrong, Lyr + Bifrost + HD800 does actually sound great...it's very listenable, very enjoyable, and very nice to play with tubes with that set.  A lot of people could be happy and stop right there.  _But_ if you started out considering MJ/Gungnir (Note I don't have MJ yet...soon...., and I don't have Gungnir but I have Woo WDS-1, which is better than Bifrost as well.) and I think certainly the better DAC is a good bet (who says you can't get Lyr + Gungnir if you want tubes but also the better source?), and I highly suspect that Mjolnir is a better performer for the HD800 to the point that I'm about to add one to my collection...
   
  I'd say in either case, if you're worried about buyer's remorse, get the Gungnir off the bat whichever amp you get.  Bifrost is excellent, but we're talking HD800...the most painfully flaw finding headphone there is.  And even Bifrost is great with it.  But it can do more than that.  For the choice between MJ and Lyr, that's a bit more individual a choice.  MJ may be technically better in terms of noise floor, or detail, or whatever, but it's not tubes....and Lyr sounds very good...


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:  
   
  YES.  You got the custom title I've been hoping you'd get someday!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> YES.  You got the custom title I've been hoping you'd get someday!


 
   
  Yep! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sphinx noticed it first in the HD800 thread, he wins the cookie


----------



## sridhar3

Ball so hard dat ish cray.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Ball so hard dat ish cray.


 
   
  At first I assumed it was an auto-correct disaster.  I decided to google it before assuming so....now it makes sense (I think)


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> At first I assumed it was an auto-correct disaster.  I decided to google it before assuming so....now it makes sense (I think)


 
   
  My cousin is a DJ.  A few months ago, a female of the Caucasian persuasion came up to him and requested that he play Kanye West's, "African Americans in Paris".


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> My cousin is a DJ.  A few months ago, a female of the Caucasian persuasion came up to him and requested that he play Kanye West's, "African Americans in Paris".


 
   
  Things I love, when my fellow Americans call a black person from somewhere not America and African American.


----------



## Y2HBK

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I think you'll wish you'd went with Mjolnir/Gungnir
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wonderful information. Thanks for the detailed response. I actually had considered the Lyr + Gungnir combo as well. The Mjolnir just looks so tempting, though. Decisions, decisions... 
   
  I think one other big influence is that the Mjolnir would limit me to balanced setups, were the Lyr would give more more flexibility to start.


----------



## mikek200

I'm kinda going throught the same situation as you,but ..I have the MJ & still using the Bifrost dac...so,I'm half-balanced.
  If,I know for sure the Gungnir will make that much of a difference,I'd buy it tomorrow...a few head-fiers,have told me,that hearing the difference in a dac ,takes some very professional ears...not the old cryoed ones ,I have attached to my head now?
   
  Any thoughts/opinions??


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> I'm kinda going throught the same situation as you,but ..I have the MJ & still using the Bifrost dac...so,I'm half-balanced.
> If,I know for sure the Gungnir will make that much of a difference,I'd buy it tomorrow...a few head-fiers,have told me,that hearing the difference in a dac ,takes some very professional ears...not the old cryoed ones ,I have attached to my head now?
> 
> Any thoughts/opinions??


 
  The Gungnir is a clear step above the Bifrost. Meaning, you'll hear the difference immediately, without effort.
   
  IME, on other sources, it can be more difficult to hear differences. It's not that you need professional ears,
  but having more experience with different gear will always lend a helping hand in discerning differences more easily.


----------



## mikek200

Thanks Para,
   
  I had a feeling you'd chime in here..
   
  WE have had this discussion before,but I've been so engrossed with the he-6's a speaker amp..I haven't listened to the MJ for a month or so.
  I've been on the MJ,with Maddogs,, Lcd's ..all day..a very refreshing change...forgot how much detail this amp can give you...now ready to get fully balanced.---TNX.
   
  T2hbk ,sorry for the digression....
   
  .


----------



## Y2HBK

mikek200 said:


> I'm kinda going throught the same situation as you,but ..I have the MJ & still using the Bifrost dac...so,I'm half-balanced.
> If,I know for sure the Gungnir will make that much of a difference,I'd buy it tomorrow...a few head-fiers,have told me,that hearing the difference in a dac ,takes some very professional ears...not the old cryoed ones ,I have attached to my head now?
> 
> Any thoughts/opinions??




Unfortunately I have never have the privilege of listening to any of Schiit's equipment. Quite the issue. If I go with something like the Lyr + Bifrost I know ill wish i had upgraded. The other way around with the MJ + Gungnir I know ill have a feeling of buyer's remorse. Id love to try all for but Id prefer to stay married after this. 

The more I seem to research Schiit gear and the HD800s, the more I come across posts stating that the HD800's love tubes which keeps bringing me back to the Lyr. 

Do you notice any issues/differences running a half balanced setup? I have never used balanced gear before and was always under the impression that you generally wanted to match your Dac/Amp as unbalanced or balanced.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> Unfortunately I have never have the privilege of listening to any of Schiit's equipment. Quite the issue. If I go with something like the Lyr + Bifrost I know ill wish i had upgraded. The other way around with the MJ + Gungnir I know ill have a feeling of buyer's remorse. Id love to try all for but Id prefer to stay married after this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What headphones would you have in mind overall with either Lyr or Mjolnir?
   
  The HD800 generally pairs well with tube amps, however, the Lyr is a hybrid. Also, there are plenty of reports of the HD800
  pairing very nicely with Mjolnir.
   
  A couple considerations to think about; the Mjolnir would require you to get your cables balanced. While the Lyr
  IMO, really requires tube rolling to bring out its potential. And generally, it aint cheap.
   
  Going fully balanced yields more power, that's the biggest benefit. Balanced in general has the nice benefit of noise rejection.


----------



## RushNerd

Going out on a limb here, has anyone tried the rca 6bq7a tubes? I got a Lyr recently with them and the stock GE tubes, as well as the Russian 6H23п tubes (the other pair is the same but has differnt numbers). I would really love to hear anything I can on these, and yes I did use the search function.
   
Switched to the rca's just now after having the GE tubes in there for two weeks. Can't really tell a difference.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rushnerd said:


> Going out on a limb here, has anyone tried the rca 6bq7a tubes? I got a Lyr recently with them and the stock GE tubes, as well as the Russian 6H23п tubes (the other pair is the same but has differnt numbers). I would really love to hear anything I can on these, and yes I did use the search function.
> 
> Switched to the rca's just now after having the GE tubes in there for two weeks. Can't really tell a difference.


 
  I had a pair of RCA 6BQ7A. While I'd say they were better than the GE tubes, I wasn't impressed with them overall.
  They got limited use and quickly collected dust. Now the RCA black plates and clear tops are kind of a different story.


----------



## olor1n

To all you guys on the fence - go the Gungnir/Mjolnir combo if you can. I know the Bifrost/Lyr combo very well. I lived with it for some time and went through the trials of tube rolling. I know what the Lyr sounds like at its best, when you get the tube choice right for a particular headphone and the synergy perfectly matches your preferences. I ran the HD650 (with Orange Globes), LCD-2 (Lorenz Stuttgarts), and HD800 (Bugle Boys) from this system to great effect. I doubted the mid-tiers would be such a significant upgrade but I pulled the trigger anyway.
   
  All the flowery accolades for the Mjolnir can be found in its dedicated thread, but in case you haven't ventured there, I'll sum it up: No amount of tube rolling will elevate the Lyr close to the level of refinement and transparency the Mjolnir affords the top tier headphones. It's no contest. The Lyr is still pretty good value but you can bridge the gap in price between it and the Mjolnir when you factor the expense of rolling tubes. Granted, there's still the added expense of converting to a fully balanced system, but ask some of the regulars here how much they've spent on tubes...
   
  The most significant upgrade I've made to my chain of late has undoubtedly been the Gungnir. Not sure to what extent the Lyr would stifle its strengths over the Bifrost, but with the Mjolnir in place, all the good stuff gets to the transducer unhindered and it's a great joy. No doubt there are better performers, and I'd be lying if I stated the NAD M51 held no appeal, but when you've come from the Bifrost, instant gratification is the reward. The difference is not subtle.


----------



## mikek200

Excellent post Olor,your another one pushing my fingers to the buy button.
  Question:-In your opinion,will I see any difference in driving the He-6's,after I get the Gungnir
  It seems from what I've read,one compliments the other ,for best results,as Para has said above.
   
  Whats your take?
   
  Any further info will be appreciated,
  Mike


----------



## olor1n

Sorry Mike, I don't own an HE-6 so I can't really comment on it. I understand the HE-6 is at the hyper revealing side of the spectrum though, alongside the HD800, so the difference between the Gungnir and Bifrost should be immediately apparent. Fwiw, I also run rca direct from the Gungnir to a pair of Audioengine A2 speakers. Refined and transparent are the last terms I'd use to describe these actives but the Gungnir has managed to elevate even these limited speakers. You don't need golden ears to appreciate the improvement and the HE-6 certainly won't be a limiting factor.


----------



## perfect-pitch

Yeah, i think the next step into the right way is a Mjolnir/Gungir combo. I am still satisfied with my Lyr/Bifrost combo, even with the great tubes i got from Mikek200. But if you read through the technical details and the positive feedback for this combo you can´t do wrong.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Things I love, when my fellow Americans call a black person from somewhere not America and African American.


 
   
  I'm unfamiliar with that particular musical endeavor (or any other of Kanye West's musical masterwerkes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) But I highly suspect that the title is a play on George Gershwin's American in Paris which told the story of an American's visit to France (specifically, his...)  I'm assuming Mr. West's odyssey takes us through the narrative of a particular persuasion of American's also visiting France in modern times, perhaps himself, rather than a tale woven about a particular persuasion of Parisians.  Or some Schiit...
   
  Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> Wonderful information. Thanks for the detailed response. I actually had considered the Lyr + Gungnir combo as well. The Mjolnir just looks so tempting, though. Decisions, decisions...
> 
> *I think one other big influence is that the Mjolnir would limit me to balanced setups*, were the Lyr would give more more flexibility to start.


 
   
  That's very true.  I suppose in theory if one needed hardwired SE headphones one could set up a DI box for the outputs...but if you're going to respond for that, might as well reterminate the headphones....
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> The Gungnir is a clear step above the Bifrost. Meaning, you'll hear *the difference immediately, without effort.*
> 
> IME, on other sources, it can be more difficult to hear differences. It's not that you need professional ears,
> but having more experience with different gear will always lend a helping hand in discerning differences more easily.


 
   
  Really?  Because I did some careful A/Bing of WDS-1 and Bifrost to identify the differences I found.  In fact they both sounded rather similar until you really compare the details.  Once you get into A/B-ing you can see where some recordings might have an immediate difference though.  Namely, the slighty overdone midbass on the Bifrost, and the lack of subbass extension.  Also trumpet blasts are a little off on Bifrost.  So things like that, I'd agree, there can be an immediate difference.
   
  However I'd also suggest the main difference in my comparison was the enhanced stereo separation, which I presume the Gungnir also has.  There's more crosstalk in he Bifrost, which does change the overall presentation, but if you're applying your own crosstalk in processing, that difference is less significant (meaning the ultimate result is applying more of your own crosstalk, and the subsequent improved clarity as a result of the crosstalk being properly controlled and EQ'd rather than just overbleed between channels.)
   
  Assuming we can assume Gungnir and WDS-1 are similar in performance (which would be a huge win for Gungnir at the comparative price points, though with some difference in features), it all adds up to a clearer DAC with better linearity across the entire frequency spectrum and smoother/faster transients.  And that makes it definitely worthwhile for someone looking at HD800, HE-6, even HD650, perhaps not as important with many other headphones. But I wouldn't veer quite as far as "immediate and effortless" difference.  I know what you mean and it can be immediate, but I think putting it in those terms isn't far off from saying "Monoblocks sound so much better with HE-6!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> Unfortunately I have never have the privilege of listening to any of Schiit's equipment. Quite the issue. If I go with something like the Lyr + Bifrost I know ill wish i had upgraded. The other way around with the MJ + Gungnir I know ill have a feeling of buyer's remorse. Id love to try all for but Id prefer to stay married after this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  True enough, but you'll also find posts saying that Lyr holds back HD800...Olor1n being one of the first that comes to mind though, so his opinion on the difference is significant.  On the other hand, Olor1n's dislike of Lyr with HD800 had me expecting the worst, and I was rather surprised with how excellent it sounds with some warm tubes on Lyr, and how much raw detail havesting still occurred even when comparing it to HE-6 on a much nicer amp. I am planning to get Mjolnir for HD800, but it's easy to understate how good Lyr is too.  My biggest gripe about Lyr with HD800 is just that Lyr can be noisy, it's pretty high gain and tubes are anything but quiet.  There's a slightly higher noise floor than I'm used to with HE-6 on a big SS power amp, or Lyr with almost anything else.  Not D5k bad with that kind of impedance, but just a subtle quiet hiss (all from the tubes, of course, so tube changes could change that.)
   
  I wouldn't worry too much about balanced/unbalanced etc.  The whole "balanced" thing is dramatically overstated for what it really is.  There are advantages but I think there's too much handwringing over the whole thing.  Yeah, Jason's making a big thing of it (shame, shame) in the marketing pages of MJ, but ultimately, a good amp is a good amp, SE, Bal or otherwise.  I do, however, prefer balanced cabling for the noise rejection properties and signal levels.  Purrin has pointed out that the balanced ins on the MJ are better than the unbal, or at least different, but we're probably splitting hairs.  AFAIK it's basically an internal DI box to convert it, so it's balanced after the inputs anyway, if that still makes you happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm sure there are advantages to running balanced straight into the MJ, both from being balanced, and skipping a DI stage. But bal/unbal is not the thing that would make me buy a different source rather than the general analog stage improvement of the source.  I.E. The WDS-1 bested the Bifrost both on the balanced outputs to my 7025 and the unbalanced outputs to my 7025.  The balanced may be a touch better for a variety of reasons on both ends, but ultimately bal/unbal will be more similar than different, but the analog sage of two different DACs will probably not be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



    
  Quote:


olor1n said:


> To all you guys on the fence - go the Gungnir/Mjolnir combo if you can. I know the Bifrost/Lyr combo very well. I lived with it for some time and went through the trials of tube rolling. I know what the Lyr sounds like at its best, when you get the tube choice right for a particular headphone and the synergy perfectly matches your preferences. I ran the HD650 (with Orange Globes), LCD-2 (Lorenz Stuttgarts), and HD800 (Bugle Boys) from this system to great effect. I doubted the mid-tiers would be such a significant upgrade but I pulled the trigger anyway.
> 
> All the flowery accolades for the Mjolnir can be found in its dedicated thread, but in case you haven't ventured there, I'll sum it up: No amount of tube rolling will elevate the Lyr close to the level of refinement and transparency the Mjolnir affords the top tier headphones. It's no contest. The Lyr is still pretty good value but you can bridge the gap in price between it and the Mjolnir when you factor the expense of rolling tubes. Granted, there's still the added expense of converting to a fully balanced system, but ask some of the regulars here how much they've spent on tubes...
> 
> The most significant upgrade I've made to my chain of late has undoubtedly been the Gungnir. Not sure to what extent the Lyr would stifle its strengths over the Bifrost, but with the Mjolnir in place, all the good stuff gets to the transducer unhindered and it's a great joy. No doubt there are better performers, and I'd be lying if I stated the NAD M51 held no appeal, but when you've come from the Bifrost, instant gratification is the reward. The difference is not subtle.


 
   
  The Voice of HD800 + Schiit has spoken! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Excellent post Olor,your another one pushing my fingers to the buy button.
> *Question:-In your opinion,will I see any difference in driving the He-6's,after I get the Gungnir*
> It seems from what I've read,one compliments the other ,for best results,as Para has said above.
> 
> ...


 
   
If you give it a week, or two, or three....I may be able to provide insight on that question as well, though Para's input is certainly credible! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  What are you driving the 6's on now?
   
  I reread that.  Gungnir.  My take from the WDS-1, not Gungnir, but the point is, an upgrade over Bifrost, is yes, the HE-6 benefits significantly from the improved source.  IMO there's only a handful of headphones that actually _would_ benefit significantly from it.  ...there's not a huge host of cans that benefit from that kind of ultra-detail improvement, basically flagships and former flagships.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I'm unfamiliar with that particular musical endeavor (or any other of Kanye West's musical masterwerkes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   I got the reference. It was later used as inspiration for Sting's "An Englishman In New York". I was merely commenting on the number of times when I lived in London that other American students would desperately not want to say someone was black so they'd say they were African American.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Really?  Because I did some careful A/Bing of WDS-1 and Bifrost to identify the differences I found.  In fact they both sounded rather similar until you really compare the details.  Once you get into A/B-ing you can see where some recordings might have an immediate difference though.  Namely, the slighty overdone midbass on the Bifrost, and the lack of subbass extension.  Also trumpet blasts are a little off on Bifrost.  So things like that, I'd agree, there can be an immediate difference.
> 
> Assuming we can assume Gungnir and WDS-1 are similar in performance (which would be a huge win for Gungnir at the comparative price points, though with some difference in features), it all adds up to a clearer DAC with better linearity across the entire frequency spectrum and smoother/faster transients.  And that makes it definitely worthwhile for someone looking at HD800, HE-6, even HD650, perhaps not as important with many other headphones. But I wouldn't veer quite as far as "immediate and effortless" difference.  I know what you mean and it can be immediate, but I think putting it in those terms isn't far off from saying "Monoblocks sound so much better with HE-6!"


 
  I'd have to say yes, really. Now yea, the Bifrost and Gungnir hold similar sound tonally. However, such things as details
  (which I certanily was alluding to) are definitely immediate and apparent. But not on some recording, rather, all recordings.
  This is where the whole "difference is immediate, without effort" comes into play.
   
  The Bifrost IMO, comes off as harsh now, as well as lacking the quality of bass Gungnir provides.
  There's just a complete layer of smoothness to Gungnir that Bifrost simply doesn't have.
   
  I don't mean it to be in such terms as hyperbole, but this is the way it comes across. I hope there's no confusion as to 
  my comment about the differentials. Because yes, they sound the same tonally. It's not better, nor different,
  they're quite similar in that regard. But everything else does jump out at you with Gungnir comparative to Bifrost.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I'd have to say yes, really. Now yea, the Bifrost and Gungnir hold similar sound tonally.* However, such things as details*
> *(which I certanily was alluding to) are definitely immediate and apparent.* But not on some recording, rather, all recordings.
> This is where the whole "difference is immediate, without effort" comes into play.
> 
> ...


 
   
  In contrast to better DACs, I agree, Bifrost is slightly less detailed, though not in a radical way.  I agree it can seem harsh in contrast, specifically with the low-treble range.  And it definitively is lacking in the subbass department, which is it's primary weakness.  "Smoothness", yes, Bifrost can be slightly more "snappy" in its transients than is ideal.
   
  Since my comparison was not to Gungnir, I certainly can't get into specifics of that comparison, but I still say, while the things you're saying are true in general, others should heed the words with caution as these are very subtle type differences overall.  Worth the money, yes, but subtle to the point that in blind A/B comparison, it does require some close listening (or listening to the right material that hits on the weaknesses of the Bifrost) to really pull the specifics of the differences beyond the overtly wider stereo separation that and the clearer tone.  Bifrost is an _exceptional_ performer for the money, but it does indeed have its flaws revealed when compared to its betters.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> *In contrast to better DACs, I agree, Bifrost is slightly less detailed, though not in a radical way.  I agree it can seem harsh in contrast, specifically with the low-treble range.  And it definitively is lacking in the subbass department, which is it's primary weakness.  "Smoothness", yes, Bifrost can be slightly more "snappy" in its transients than is ideal.*
> 
> Since my comparison was not to Gungnir, I certainly can't get into specifics of that comparison, but I still say, while the things you're saying are true in general, others should heed the words with caution as these are very subtle type differences overall.  Worth the money, yes, but subtle to the point that in blind A/B comparison, it does require some close listening (or listening to the right material that hits on the weaknesses of the Bifrost) to really pull the specifics of the differences beyond the overtly wider stereo separation that and the clearer tone.  Bifrost is an _exceptional_ performer for the money, but it does indeed have its flaws revealed when compared to its betters.


 
*Agreed.*
   
  I have to disagree, though unreliable, unless under extreme controlled conditions. I believe you could A/B the Bifrost and Gungnir
  and be able to differentiate 'em quite easily. Now I don't subscribe to objective data, other then out of curiosity. 
  Sticking to subjective experience is all I care about. So YMMV, of course. 
   
  The Bifrost is by no means anything other than very good. And as you said "An exceptional performer for the money".
  But yea, compared to others it's flawed.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> [...]
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## Y2HBK

A big thanks to everyone so far that has contributed in response to my posts. I think I am going to go the route of the MJ + Gungnir combo, albeit it will take a bit longer so I can save up a bit more cash.
   
  Now I need to figure out reterminating the cables on the HD800 (or forking out cash for ones from Lawton or Moon Audio maybe...) - I'm not exactly what you would call the most handy when it comes to those types of things.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> A big thanks to everyone so far that has contributed in response to my posts. I think I am going to go the route of the MJ + Gungnir combo, albeit it will take a bit longer so I can save up a bit more cash.
> 
> Now I need to figure out reterminating the cables on the HD800 (or forking out cash for ones from Lawton or Moon Audio maybe...) - I'm not exactly what you would call the most handy when it comes to those types of things.


 
  Depending on if you think cables matter a little tiny bit, or at all. Brian @ BTG-Audio has some nice prices on cables. Or you could send your current cables into him
  for re-termination for a very fair price.


----------



## Y2HBK

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Depending on if you think cables matter a little tiny bit, or at all. Brian @ BTG-Audio has some nice prices on cables. Or you could send your current cables into him
> for re-termination for a very fair price.


 
   
  Great info, ill check him out. Thanks!!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> Great info, ill check him out. Thanks!!


 
  No problem.


----------



## RushNerd

lol, balanced amps, no thanks. 
   
  I searched the thread some but was unable to find what I was looking for: What are some of the favorite tubes for lyr owners with the HE-400's? 
   
  I realize the 400's are probably not the most popular heapdhone for the lyr, but the combo is nothing short of astounding. I would love to get the most out of the combo with the best tubes possible.


----------



## Y2HBK

rushnerd said:


> lol, balanced amps, no thanks.




A plethora of useful information.


----------



## Kojaku

Picked up a pair 1968 Tesla E88CC gold pins. Super excited. I hope they sound good xS...
   
  Kojaku


----------



## abs1nthe

Quote: 





rushnerd said:


> I searched the thread some but was unable to find what I was looking for: What are some of the favorite tubes for lyr owners with the HE-400's?
> 
> I realize the 400's are probably not the most popular heapdhone for the lyr, but the combo is nothing short of astounding. I would love to get the most out of the combo with the best tubes possible.


 
   
  I'm listening to Genalex - Gold Lions now with HE-400.  Very quiet background.  Beautiful and warm.  I think the best thing I can say is that these tubes make mediocre recordings sound rich.  I just listened to a 1942 version of Beethoven's 9th and enjoyed it immensely.  When I tried to play the same music on my speakers, detail, warmth, and punch were all missing.
   
  I have the new Norah Jones playing right now.  I can hear the cracks in her voice, but the tubes envelope her mistakes into the music landscape rather than a protruding imperfection.  The bass extension with these tubes are a bit better than the GE tubes I used last week.  But, I'm pretty sure something I'm missing really low end bass (eg. when I'm listening to B-Tribe's "Fiesta Fatale" or Depeche Mode's Bass Bomb version of "It's No Good"). I also don't like live versions of country music recorded in large halls with these tubes.  They tubes roll all the ambient sound into the music too much.  Maybe it's just me.  I've only been playing with headphones for a couple weeks now.
   
  Okay, to end on a good note, some music I really like with these tubes and why:
   

 Maria Dolores Pradera - All her music is great.  Guitars are so alive with these tubes and the HE-400
 Pink Martini - Separation of voice and instruments is a huge plus for me. Plus the detail makes it sound like I'm listening to a room with great speakers rather than headphones.
 *Johnny Cash - "Hurt."  Johnny Cash's voice sounds like it's in the base of your skull and the guitar sounds like it's trying to claw its way into your head to join his voice... Amazing.
 Bebo & Cigala - "Lagrimas Negra" The beginning piano strikes sound live. And his voice sounds like you're in a hazy club listening to an old master at the very end of his greatness.
 *DJ Disse - "Taxi to War" on the Hotel Costes 10 CD - Holy cow, the separation in the sounds is all there, but the tubes give it a nice warmth and make the sounds music rather than noise.
 Eminem - "Cleaning Out My Closet" - never liked this song. These tubes make Eminem sound grown up though and now it all works for me.
 *Erasure - "Sono Luminus" - It's like these tubes were made for Erasure.  Some of the raggedy edges of the treble disappear and artificial sounds become more musical.
 *Schola Antiqua - The monks sound like they're singing in an old church with their voices warming the room. shockingly good tubes for chants--preferable to listening on speakers
 *The Airborne Toxic Event - "All For Woman" - soulful, sad, and sexual.  Never noticed the woman's voice before these tubes and the HE400.
 Notorious B.I.G. - "Hypnotize" - fast bass, clear vocals and separation makes up for missing sub-bass.  
 *Furwangler's 1942 version of Beethoven's 9th - Holy cow.  The recording sounds halfway decent with this combo of headphone, Lyr, and tubes.  Because it's halfway decent, it lets you enjoy just how great this recording really is.   Never been so moved by a recording.
   
  * These are the ones where I felt like I enjoyed the recordings more than ever before.
   
  Huan


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





> *The difference between the Bifrost and Gungnir is not subtle in my system. You do describe some of the qualities the Gungnir excels at over the Bifrost but you do seem to be downplaying the divide. I don't apply DSP or EQ though to bridge the gap artificially. Perhaps the amps you have in place between your dac and headphones are stifling the performance of your Woo dac, levelling the playing field against the Bifrost? Or maybe the Woo isn't as clear an improvement over the Bifrost as the Gungnir? I try to refrain from commenting on gear I've not heard, but considering the impunity with which you speculate on gear you've not heard, I'll pay you the same courtesy. I'll even use a smily to counteract the "snarky-ness" (I made that word up) - *


 
   
  For clarity I wasn't attempting to comment specifically on the Gungnir so much as "Bifrost versus higher end DACs" in general.  And ultimately the Bifrost _is_ indeed excellent which is ultimately the point.  Yes, it has weaknesses, yes those weaknesses can be revealed when compared against better DACs, and I would certainly recommend spending the difference to upgrade for someone using flagship headphones.  But my point was to add some balance to paradox's comment that could easily be read along with a lot of other hyberbole on head-fi as sounding like more than it really is.  Those of us who have compared the differences ourselves know what paradox is talking about, and know in our scale of "different" what "subtle" means and doesn't mean in the comparison.  But someone who has not done such a comparison could easily read more into it.  Yes there are differences in DACs, yes Bifrost has flaws, but the fact is there's only so much "better" that can be gleaned out of a DAC and the Bifrost comes out of the gate swinging very, very hard at a very modest price.  Yes, "better" but someone unfamiliar with the kinds of differences being discussed that's stumbling on this thread needs a bucket of ice water interjected over the exaggerations an over the top description can provide. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (Additional background I have a very long PM chain with Paradox discussing various other hyperboles that annoy both of us on head-fi, which was part of the inspiration for making sure to correct his own brush with hyperbole  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Yes, I'm downplaying the difference somewhat because while it's different, the Bifrost is sufficiently excellent, even with HD800, and someone without their own comparison may picture a far greater divide than what really is from the language being used.  Much like the advice I originally got about how horrible HE-6 and Lyr are.  Which I discovered on my own was hyperbole, and it actually sounds fantastic. I understand from upgrading why that advice was given, but the hyperbole was overextended and nearly changed my purchasing decision based on soemwhat overblown reaction to definitite limitations.  I wasn't doing a contrast and review between two DACs strengths and weaknesses, but rather offering a more grounded contrast to a description that, IMO, could paint a bolder image than what is.
   
  One thing for me personally, is that the wider stereo separation, which is what one of the big pushes in "balanced headphone gear" is all about, is, to me, annoying.  I'd go nuts without my DSP to _narrow_ the stereo image and provide some crossfeed.  Somewhat true on the somewhat crosstalk prone Bifrost, and extremely so on the seemingly crosstalk-immune Woo (and presumably Gungnir.)  Somewhat great for speakers, for my ears, not so great for headphones.  It makes me understand why Tyll stuck the crossfeed circuit on the early Headroom models.  It was annoying on the Micro but I bet it was rather useful on the Max.  That's to the side of the conversation, but it's one thing to note about my listening, and a note that one of the more dramatic changes of moving up the ladder is, to me not an immediately good one for headphones, but can be made into a good one depending on how you use it.
   
  Quote: 





> *I don't think I've ever commented that I disliked the Lyr/HD800 pairing. I may have outlined some disappointment with certain tubes, but I have consistently praised the synergy with Amperex Bugle Boys. I have also consistently stated how much "better" the Mjolnir is over the Lyr (even at its best with the right tubes tweaked to preference), so perhaps that's where the misunderstanding stems from. Praising one component over another doesn't necessarily mean the lesser component is a bad one inherently, though it may come across as such if not stated in no uncertain terms. I'll be sure to apply the usual caveats in future for people that are predisposed to jumping to conclusions. *


 
   
  You know, when I said "dislike" I read it and thought "that word will be misinterpereted"...and then I was lazy and didn't feel like correcting it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   No, I realize you don't dislike it.  My point was that you knew from the beginning Lyr was holding back HD800's potential and confirmed it when you got Mjolnir.  No need to apply more caveats, I knew your position correctly from the beginning and watched your transition from Lyr to MJ.  I just chose a bad word here to relate it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





> *My views are consistent with those who've actually heard and spent time with this particular chain (e.g. Maxvla, scootermafia, and others). I may be more vocal, but it's only to counteract the speculation from contrarians speculating on things they've not had direct experience with. *


 
   
  I wasn't being sarcastic, I was acknowledging you as the most knowledgable of those experienced with that particular transition, and thus yours was a solid statement to rely on. Who's speculating now?


----------



## igravity

I've been reading through replies on this thread, however, I haven't been able to find what I'm looking for. I am looking to buy a set of tubes that will provide heavier bass. Currently I'm using the 691P tubes from schiit, but while they do provide some pretty solid directional sound for gaming I feel that I need more bass from my lyr. If it helps, my setup is cambridge audio dacmagic -> schiit lyr -> akg q701.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





igravity said:


> I've been reading through replies on this thread, however, I haven't been able to find what I'm looking for. I am looking to buy a set of tubes that will provide heavier bass. Currently I'm using the 691P tubes from schiit, but while they do provide some pretty solid directional sound for gaming I feel that I need more bass from my lyr. If it helps, my setup is cambridge audio dacmagic -> schiit lyr -> akg q701.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 To my ears, the Lorenz Stuttgarts have terrific bass, but sadly those tubes are close to unobtainium.
   
  I seem to remember the Japanese Matsushiita/National PCC88s (Mullard tooling) having pretty nice bass for a reasonable price.
   
  Anyone else have those and can comment on the bass?


----------



## MickeyVee

You got me interested with your note.  Been using the stock GE's for a few months now so I decided to roll in the Matsu/Nationals  E88CC 6922 Mullard Tooling. Not sure that the bass is any better than the GE's (pretty close) but I'm liking what I'm getting out of the mids. A little more present, detailed with better separation than forward. Not liking the highs too much - probably bringing out the HD700 peaks. The GE's seem to have a wider soundstage which I love, a little less mid detail, bass is about the same and maybe rolled off highs which suits the HD700.
  Think I'm going to stick with the GE's.  YMMV.
  Wish I didn't sell off my Lorenz but they helped pay for my Bifrost - wait a minute - sold the unobtaniums to you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sounds like you're enjoying them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





oldskool said:


> To my ears, the Lorenz Stuttgarts have terrific bass, but sadly those tubes are close to unobtainium.
> 
> I seem to remember the Japanese Matsushiita/National PCC88s (Mullard tooling) having pretty nice bass for a reasonable price.
> 
> Anyone else have those and can comment on the bass?


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> You got me interested with your note.  Been using the stock GE's for a few months now so I decided to roll in the Matsu/Nationals  E88CC 6922 Mullard Tooling. Not sure that the bass is any better than the GE's (pretty close) but I'm liking what I'm getting out of the mids. A little more present, detailed with better separation than forward. Not liking the highs too much - probably bringing out the HD700 peaks. The GE's seem to have a wider soundstage which I love, a little less mid detail, bass is about the same and maybe rolled off highs which suits the HD700.
> Think I'm going to stick with the GE's.  YMMV.
> Wish I didn't sell off my Lorenz but they helped pay for my Bifrost - wait a minute - sold the unobtaniums to you
> 
> ...


 
  I would die for a pair of those...Valvos and Mullards too...phew so much possibility. I think Gold Lions are up next for me. Either that or the Matsus.
   
  Kojaku


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> To my ears, the Lorenz Stuttgarts have terrific bass, but sadly those tubes are close to unobtainium.
> 
> I seem to remember the Japanese Matsushiita/National PCC88s (Mullard tooling) having pretty nice bass for a reasonable price.
> 
> Anyone else have those and can comment on the bass?


 
  The Bugle Boys are pretty good as well as the Mullards.
   
  I didn't find the Nationals to be that great, similar to the GE's, I'd say.
   
  One of the best tubes I found were the Siemen A-frames.
  I'm not sure about pricing, I picked mine up from Mrscary for $120.
  A buddy got a quote from Brent Jessee that said they were in upwards of $400,
  I then traded those for more Lorenz. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As mentioned before the RCA clear tops and black plates are quite nice themselves.
  I've also heard the cheapo Lorenz SEL are pretty good.


----------



## MickeyVee

I think I'm going to try the Gold Lions and then call it a day.  This tube rolling thing may just force me to get a solid state amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but never going to give up the Lyr.  Love it!
  Quote: 





kojaku said:


> I would die for a pair of those...Valvos and Mullards too...phew so much possibility. I think Gold Lions are up next for me. Either that or the Matsus.
> 
> Kojaku


----------



## MickeyVee

After doing some swapping last night and listening to the Nationals this morning, I pretty much agree with this. In my case, I prefer the GE.
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I didn't find the Nationals to be that great, similar to the GE's, I'd say.


----------



## musicinmymind

I want to try Lorenz with Lyr+HE-400,
   
someone please share link to buy them, I am new to tubes and not sure about right match one's


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> I want to try Lorenz with Lyr+HE-400,
> 
> someone please share link to buy them, I am new to tubes and not sure about right match one's


 
  You just need to pay special attention to the getters, to make sure you're getting either 2-mica or 3-mica Stuttgarts.
   
  Also, I would believe your best bet at finding a pair would be from a Head-Fi'er.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> After doing some swapping last night and listening to the Nationals this morning, I pretty much agree with this. In my case, I prefer the GE.


 

 Sorry guys, looks like I was mis-remembering the bass level of the Matsu's. I couldn't check because I no longer had them.
   
  I should have kept better notes.  Also, the sun was in my eyes and I had a rock in my shoe.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Sorry guys, looks like I was mis-remembering the bass level of the Matsu's. I couldn't check because I no longer had them.
> 
> I should have kept better notes.  Also, the sun was in my eyes and I had a rock in my shoe.


 
  LOL! What
   
  Were your shoes untied as well, but you had your hands full so there was nothing you could do...


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





igravity said:


> I've been reading through replies on this thread, however, I haven't been able to find what I'm looking for. I am looking to buy a set of tubes that will provide heavier bass. Currently I'm using the 691P tubes from schiit, but while they do provide some pretty solid directional sound for gaming I feel that I need more bass from my lyr. If it helps, my setup is cambridge audio dacmagic -> schiit lyr -> akg q701.
> 
> Thanks!


 
   
  I use the CV2492 Mullard for my K701.. and they are BRILLIANT. They give much more body to my K701 (and i am sure they will do even better with the Qs)
   
  In fact, do you guys know where I can find a replacement for these tubes because I feel like they are failing me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love them so much and recently they have been making too much noise. I decided to give them some rest. I really wanna have them replaced.. with either new CV2942 (or even CV2943) or something else.. any suggestions guys?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> I use the CV2492 Mullard for my K701.. and they are BRILLIANT. They give much more body to my K701 (and i am sure they will do even better with the Qs)
> 
> In fact, do you guys know where I can find a replacement for these tubes because I feel like they are failing me
> 
> ...


 
1. No info on stock
   
2. In stock - Limited - HURRY!


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for Replay,
   
  I found a pair of PCC88/7DJ8 LORENZ SEL in ebay, not sure 2-mica or 3-mica...
   
  it is listed as "PCC88/7DJ8 LORENZ SEL NOS Tube Röhre Lampe TSF Valvola Valvula", how to identify 2-mica or 3-mica


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> Thanks for Replay,
> 
> I found a pair of PCC88/7DJ8 LORENZ SEL in ebay, not sure 2-mica or 3-mica...
> 
> it is listed as "PCC88/7DJ8 LORENZ SEL NOS Tube Röhre Lampe TSF Valvola Valvula", how to identify 2-mica or 3-mica


 
  Ah, you dont' have to worry about 2-mica or 3-mica with the Lorenz SEL. The 2-mica and 3-mica variants are the Lorenz Stuttgart.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ah, you dont' have to worry about 2-mica or 3-mica with the Lorenz SEL. The 2-mica and 3-mica variants are the Lorenz Stuttgart.


 
   
  so Lorenz SEL sound same as 2-mica and 3-mica variants or they are no good?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> so Lorenz SEL sound same as 2-mica and 3-mica variants or they are no good?


 
  No the Lorenz SEL sounds "inferior" to the 2-mica and 3-mica varaints.
   
  The Lorenz Stuttgart 2-mica and 3-mica's are pretty hard to find. Usually you'll only
  get a pair from a fellow Head-Fi'er.
   
  The Lorenz SEL are lower end tubes, but I've heard good things about them.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *paradoxper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> No the Lorenz SEL sounds "inferior" to the 2-mica and 3-mica varaints.
> 
> The Lorenz Stuttgart 2-mica and 3-mica's are pretty hard to find. Usually you'll only
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, I will let it pass and keep hunting for Lorenz Stuttgart 3-mica


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


musicinmymind said:


> Thanks, I will let it pass and keep hunting for Lorenz Stuttgart 3-mica


 
   
  Just make sure to avoid the ones on the FS forums.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Just make sure to avoid the ones on the FS forums.


 






 then how should I go about it...sending lot of PM's should only other option.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> then how should I go about it...sending lot of PM's should only other option.


 
  He was just being EVIL. 
   
  See his interest: 
  Cynicism
 Misanthropy
 Gluttony
 Sloth
   
  What he does: Delete the internet
   
  Steer clear of him, he be bad.


----------



## musicinmymind

Haha good one….I mistook FS forums for evil.
   
  @[size=9pt]sridhar3 I found one for you [/size]http://www.head-fi.org/t/632997/lorenz-stuttgart-3mica-pcc88-the-best-of-the-best
   
  you please stay away after this


----------



## tool462

Forgive my ignorance regarding tubes, but is there a way to easily identify if a "vintage" or "NOS" tube is worth checking out? I have a big warehouse store of random crap that often has big boxes of old, often sealed, tubes but have no clue what to look for. I don't get to the store as much as I would like, but they always have quite a few different types and for real cheap.


----------



## SeaHawk

IMO, search the thread by brand and type to see if anyone has a listening report (keeping in mind that the tube will flavor their system in addition to whatever components they have in their chain - a warm tube with slightly diminished highs may sound great with a higher-end Grado, but sound like crap with LCDr1s, or too harsh with a Bifrost but great with another DAC, etc.).
   
  If you can't find a review and see the tube is compatible, PLUG IT IN AND LET US KNOW HOW IT SOUNDS (to you)!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





tool462 said:


> Forgive my ignorance regarding tubes, but is there a way to easily identify if a "vintage" or "NOS" tube is worth checking out? I have a big warehouse store of random crap that often has big boxes of old, often sealed, tubes but have no clue what to look for. I don't get to the store as much as I would like, but they always have quite a few different types and for real cheap.


 
  Apart from just looking for specific brand, say, if you have a box full of Siemens it can be difficult because of how terrible they were with labeling
  the damn tubes.But Usually the getters are a good indicator of identifying tubes.
   
  And remember to use the correct tube variant the Lyr supports. Don't wanna hear any horror stories.


----------



## 333jeffery

Luckily, no one else has discovered how glorious the E288cc tubes sound in the Lyr, which leaves plenty for me to hoard...


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> Luckily, no one else has discovered how glorious the E288cc tubes sound in the Lyr, which leaves plenty for me to hoard...


 
   
  What's so good about them? What are the sonic characteristics? TELL US.


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> Luckily, no one else has discovered how glorious the E288cc tubes sound in the Lyr, which leaves plenty for me to hoard...


 
  Also, which 288CCs? By whom?
   
  Kojaku


----------



## Trance_Gott

I have Valvo E288CC from misterrogers. They have tons of details. Best soundstage I ever heared - better then Lorenz 3mica. And the best is they are dead silent in the background.


----------



## 333jeffery

A few months back, I splurged and bought some pricey Telefunken E288cc tubes. The results were awesome: crystal clarity and warmth that makes Mullards look weak. Bass and treble that are balanced completely. Makes electric guitar and vocals sound sinfully delicious. It's the "end game" tube for the Lyr.
  Unfortunately, E288cc's are scarce and pricey. $150 a pair on up to $250/pair. But, if you can get them, the Lyr truly comes alive with them. Telefunkens are the best of the lot, though Siemens-Halskie made some interesting ones, too. Enjoy!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> Luckily, no one else has discovered how glorious the E288cc tubes sound in the Lyr, which leaves plenty for me to hoard...


 

 Just when I thought I was through buying pricy, vintage tubes....I get pulled back in.


----------



## Kojaku

Some new friends from Poland just arrived 
   
  Kojaku


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Some new friends from Poland just arrived
> 
> Kojaku


 
  Looks awesome! Where did you purchase them?


----------



## asmoday

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Some nice Polish friends you got there Kojaku!


----------



## Kojaku

damageinc77 said:


> Looks awesome! Where did you purchase them?




I bought them from a guy selling tested pairs on ebay. Fantastic sound. I'll drop a review with my Rev. 2s here In a bit.

Kojaku


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> I bought them from a guy selling tested pairs on ebay. Fantastic sound. I'll drop a review with my Rev. 2s here In a bit.
> Kojaku


 
  Could you send me a message with a link to his ebay page?


----------



## musicinmymind

I found  Lorenz Tube E88CC 6922 tube's for sale, one tube cost 150$ or best offer....
   
  are they worth 150$ for single tube.....if yes do they work with Lyr
   
  Please let me know


----------



## W0lfd0g

They are worth what you are willing to pay.  If they are Lorenz Stuttgart, they will be hard to find.  I sold a pair for about $20.00 recently though.  If I were you I would keep looking.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





w0lfd0g said:


> They are worth what you are willing to pay.  If they are Lorenz Stuttgart, they will be hard to find.  I sold a pair for about *$120.00* recently though.  If I were you I would keep looking.


 
  Right?


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks to both of you, will keep looking for Lorenz Stuttgart


----------



## paradoxper

Every Stuttgart I bought or traded for was from a Head-Fi member. So start looking in house.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Every Stuttgart I bought or traded for was from a Head-Fi member. So start looking in house.


 
   
  [size=11pt]Yes I am looking at sales forms quite regularly for past few weeks but found only one pair, but priced beyond my range[/size]


----------



## mikiphile

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone has experience with the Lyr as a preamp. I know the amp can do 8 ohms, but I am not sure if that means that it can efficiently work as a preamp for, lets say, passive studio monitors.
   
  From SixMoons Lyr review and what Jason told them (its the first time a quote an external source, so im not sure if I need to use APA reference ):

   


> With its pre-outs the Lyr is the only Schiit to allow preamp use. To preempt folks from equating 6 watts into 32Ω with real fun directly into 8Ω speakers Jason explained that "Lyr does not have any electronic current limiting but the dynamically adaptive output stage is designed to work optimally into typical headphone impedances.
> 
> 
> "Sure the Lyr will drive 8Ω but it is _not _a speaker amp. Speaker amps usually have some decoupling from heavy reactive loads. Lyr doesn't need it for light headphone diaphragms.
> ...


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone has experience with the Lyr as a preamp. I know the amp can do 8 ohms, but I am not sure if that means that it can efficiently work as a preamp for, lets say, passive studio monitors.


 
   
  I have it running a set of Acoustic Energy Aego M's, nothing too fancy and their powered but, it does a good job none the less. At some point in the relative future I'm looking to upgrade to some external passive speakers and when that happens I'll be getting a small preamp to go with my current setup.


----------



## dece870717

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> Not to sound like a broken record, but the best tubes for the Lyr are the Telefunken E288cc's. Expensive, but they are rated for 10,000 hours of operation. Until you try them, you are only hearing part of what the Lyr is capable of.


 
   
  You were not kidding about this. I bought a pair and have been testing them out and it's like having next level equipment. The clarity I get from these are unreal, been trying to go to bed for past couple hours and I just don't want to stop listening to my music!


----------



## sensui123

Hi experienced tube rollers;
       I'm still waiting for my balanced cables and HE-6 to arrive to play with the Mjolnir so meanwhile I've been playing with the Gungnir/Lyr combo.....amazing so far for the $$ on the cans I've thrown @ it (HE-500, HD-650, HD-800, AH-D7000).  Per 333jefferey's comments earlier, I picked up a pair of the telefunkins e288cc (I hope I purchased the correct ones, should be e88cc equivalent) incoming from ebay and am looking for Mullards since they're heavily recommended....could some of you guys help me out with the labeling?  I am really confused by all the different labelings and don't know how to buy when looking at these tubes.....what should I really be looking for?  CV2492/CV2493 e88cc is all I need to look for and just look for a matching pair in terms of date/code? Seems like there are multiple makes using the Mullards tooling as well?  RCA, Matsuhita, Valvo etc....really confused.....
   
  Here are some from ebay for example:
   
  http://tinyurl.com/absnqay
  http://tinyurl.com/bcqhveu
   
  Audiogon:
   
  http://tinyurl.com/aqpuud7
  http://tinyurl.com/a68lezx
  http://tinyurl.com/bdphrlr
   
  More than confused and not even sure how much I should be paying for a pair of these Mullards, but would really like to get 1-2 pairs to stock/try out since they're so highly praised.  Thanks a lot in advance for help and guidance.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> Hi experienced tube rollers;
> I'm still waiting for my balanced cables and HE-6 to arrive to play with the Mjolnir so meanwhile I've been playing with the Gungnir/Lyr combo.....amazing so far for the $$ on the cans I've thrown @ it (HE-500, HD-650, HD-800, AH-D7000).  Per 333jefferey's comments earlier, I picked up a pair of the telefunkins e288cc (I hope I purchased the correct ones, should be e88cc equivalent) incoming from ebay and am looking for Mullards since they're heavily recommended....could some of you guys help me out with the labeling?  I am really confused by all the different labelings and don't know how to buy when looking at these tubes.....what should I really be looking for?  CV2492/CV2493 e88cc is all I need to look for and just look for a matching pair in terms of date/code? Seems like there are multiple makes using the Mullards tooling as well?  RCA, Matsuhita, Valvo etc....really confused.....
> 
> Here are some from ebay for example:
> ...


 
  The difference you're seeing is the manufacturing plant, year of production and getters.
  I'd stay clear from any new productions like those RCA's for example.
  The CV2492 and CV2493 are virtually the same, the CV2493 are kind of cherry picked.
  Those Amperex Holland are very good as well, one highly regarded tube.
   
  If you buy from a reputable place matching won't be a problem, nor testing tube strength.
  If not, good luck. There's too much out there that's listed falsely. So just use your best judgement.


----------



## sensui123

Thanks for the insight paradoxper.....so would the ebay links I provided be ok to buy from?  the KB/QDD seems to differ from the other pictures posted in this thread of the CV2492 variant I've seen....Also there is a lot of labeling flying around that confuses me.....CV2492/CV2493?  6922?  E88CC/E188CC(Amperex has both kinds)? 6DJB?......It's really making my head spin heh.  Was hoping you could help me out on these specifc listings....thanks in advance for helping out a tube rolling noob that just wants to listen to great music =D (these seem to be the better ones?):
   
  http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-mullard-6922-e88cc-matched-pairs-7l1-series-gold-pin-phono-grade-minty-condition-2012-10-14-accessories-60133
   
  http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6922-7308-holland-e88cc-e188cc-pairs-for-valvo-nos-nib-mint-2012-10-31-accessories-60133-hanover-park-il
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CV2492-MULLARD-MILITARY-NOS-BOXED-/260577827114?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3caba6192a
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/300810722503?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hey sensui here is a link that will clear alot about tube naming http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> Thanks for the insight paradoxper.....so would the ebay links I provided be ok to buy from?  the KB/QDD seems to differ from the other pictures posted in this thread of the CV2492 variant I've seen....Also there is a lot of labeling flying around that confuses me.....CV2492/CV2493?  6922?  E88CC/E188CC(Amperex has both kinds)? 6DJB?......It's really making my head spin heh.  Was hoping you could help me out on these specifc listings....thanks in advance for helping out a tube rolling noob that just wants to listen to great music =D (these seem to be the better ones?):
> 
> http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-mullard-6922-e88cc-matched-pairs-7l1-series-gold-pin-phono-grade-minty-condition-2012-10-14-accessories-60133
> 
> ...


 
  All of the tubes you're currently interested in look good. Don't worry too much about 
  the pics looking different, that's nothing compared to the stupid amounts of Siemens out there.
  The reasons being the different manufacturing plants and relabelings mostly.
   
  As far as the 6922, 6DJB, etc. Those are just the tube variants. Meaning those kinds no matter which tube (brand, etc)
  will work with the Lyr:
   
  As listed the Lyr supports: 6922,6DJ8,ECC88,6B27, etc etc.
   
  It might help if you go back to the early pages of this thread and look at the different
  variants of tubes (same brand or manufacturer) to help you get a better understanding.
   
  Once you really engross yourself in tubes and read about the various Mullards
  and Siemens and the alike, you'll feel more comfortable identifying compatible tubes.
   
  Some of the  tubes available (or not so available) 
  are the Lorenz Stuttgart 2-mica/3-mica. Identified by the different getters.
  The Mullards both CV2492 and CV2493
  The Bugle Boys
  Amperex Holland white labels
  Siemen & Halske 
  RCA black plates and clear tops
  Gold Lions
  Nationals
  Telefunken
  etc.
   
  All of the aforementioned have been talked about within the pages of this thread.
   
  My top 3, however attainable or not so much.
   
  1. Lorenz Stuttgart 2-mica/3-mica
  2. Siemen's A-frames
  3. Mullard CV2493


----------



## sensui123

paradoxper, dailydoseofdaly....you guys have been a tremendous help.  I'll try to pick up these first and start studying on the information for the variants...I tried going through the thread but all the terminology and numbering is overwhelming me a bit. Will study up on that link and then go @ it again.  Thanks so much for your patience in explaining these variants.


----------



## 333jeffery

The Telefunken e288cc's bring the Lyr within range of  the Mjolnir, when I play them side/side with my HE500's. The Mjolnir still wins, but I could quite comfortably live with just the Lyr and these tubes. The clarity is astounding, with no compromise in terms of warmth. A rare combination.
   
  I had wondered who had bought up all the e288cc's. They've been disappearing off of ebay over the last few weeks.


----------



## MaJoMax

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> The Telefunken e288cc's bring the Lyr within range of  the Mjolnir, when I play them side/side with my HE500's. The Mjolnir still wins, but I could quite comfortably live with just the Lyr and these tubes. The clarity is astounding, with no compromise in terms of warmth. A rare combination.
> 
> I had wondered who had bought up all the e288cc's. They've been disappearing off of ebay over the last few weeks.


 
  really want to try this tubes...


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





majomax said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You can get them on upscaleaudio, one tube cost 225$. seriously is it worth spending 450$ for a pair?
   
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-E88CC-%7B47%7D-6922.html


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> You can get them on upscaleaudio, one tube cost 225$. seriously is it worth spending 450$ for a pair?
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-E88CC-%7B47%7D-6922.html


 
  No, improvements can be had for much less. Pick up some Siemens or Lorenz which, IMO are better than the Telefunkens.


----------



## sensui123

Sadly those aren't even the e288cc 333jefferey is talking about....they are even harder to come by.  I also bought another set of Siemen e288cc off ebay as well to try to compare and contrast with the telefunken incoming......lots of listening to come.....
   
  Been listening to the Matsu****a e88cc from tubemonger so far......first set of tubes I rolled in!  I am actually pretty surprised how much of a difference it makes on the sound coming from the stock GE's.....the mids and bass has completely come alive and the sound stage is impressive.  Will have to keep listening to break them in....but I like what I hear!


----------



## 333jeffery

^The Matsu's are quite similar in sound to the Mullards. Wait til you hear the Telefunken's!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Even Kevin at Upscale doesn't often recommend the uber-pricy tubes.  That includes applications in _far_ more expensive and detailed amps than Lyr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Lyr owners have developed something of a fettish for the most expensive tubes on the market that people aren't even sticking in vintage Triode and McIntosh amps


----------



## MaJoMax

does anyone still find the 6N23P a good sounding tubes?
   
  http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_24&products_id=262&osCsid=e335aa1df2adbd52583e08fa7aab9547


----------



## sensui123

Rolled in and listening to the Amperex Phillips E88CC SQ from 1971 Holleen Holland production......very nice stuff for IMO different application than the Matsus I rolled in last night.  These tubes open up a nice amount of detail so far in the stuff I've listened to.  Goes great with dance songs and jams to get you out the seat.  It's hard to put your finger on it, but I feel that this is a pretty balanced set of tubes compared to the Matsus I rolled in the other night across the spectrum.  This is a dangerous hobby indeed...these tubes heh.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

majomax said:


> does anyone still find the 6N23P a good sounding tubes?
> 
> http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_24&products_id=262&osCsid=e335aa1df2adbd52583e08fa7aab9547




I have a pair of 6n23p's that I got with a pair of electro harmonix 6922eh from a member here. I always compair the two do to the fact they are newly made Russian tubes with near identical builds, that I can't tell. Like other newly made tube types they are not warm (kinds solid stateish), pretty detailed, with small boxy soundstage. If you kinda liked the JJ sound but thought they could be better, you might like these new Russian tubes. 
Between the two for me the 6n23p sounds more natural I use it for acoustic based recordings. The 6922eh sounds slightly more clinical and detailed, also has a noticeable bass extension and I enjoy it with electronic based music.
To be honest I felt they were both kinda meh with my k701 and lcd2, it wasn't till I got the lcd3 that I found that the synergy with my setup and 6922eh was pretty enjoyable. Ive been using them a good bit recently they work well with that can imo. As always ymmv etc etc


----------



## MaJoMax

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I have a pair of 6n23p's that I got with a pair of electro harmonix 6922eh from a member here. I always compair the two do to the fact they are newly made Russian tubes with near identical builds, that I can't tell. Like other newly made tube types they are not warm (kinds solid stateish), pretty detailed, with small boxy soundstage. If you kinda liked the JJ sound but thought they could be better, you might like these new Russian tubes.
> Between the two for me the 6n23p sounds more natural I use it for acoustic based recordings. The 6922eh sounds slightly more clinical and detailed, also has a noticeable bass extension and I enjoy it with electronic based music.
> To be honest I felt they were both kinda meh with my k701 and lcd2, it wasn't till I got the lcd3 that I found that the synergy with my setup and 6922eh was pretty enjoyable. Ive been using them a good bit recently they work well with that can imo. As always ymmv etc etc


 
  thx you!
   
  i am currently pairing with HE-500, might give those a try!


----------



## Hibuckhobby

​Looking for something with a bit more bass weght than the voshkod's or lorenz.
Thoughts?
Hibuck.....


----------



## Fearless1

I just picked up a pair of matched E188CC La Radiotechinques, just awesome sound with the HD650s.


----------



## Iamnothim

Just scored:
    AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88  VACUUM TUBE 1969 DIMPLE GETTER MATCHED PAIR  HERLEEN NETHERLANDS 1969
   
   
   
   

   
   
   

   
   
  Wait'n to fire up the Lyr.


----------



## Mediahound

Of the tubes that Schiit sells, what are the sound characteristics of each? Which one is best?:
   
  JJ E88CC
  GE 6B27
  6N1P


----------



## Iamnothim

There are others far more qualified to answer your question.
  My Lyr has not yet arrived and I'm getting different tubes to play with.
   
  I'm trying "tube hunter" on eBay to purchase some tubes to experiment.  His tubes are used and NOS, but he has a lot of variety in his catalog.  They look like a good value.
   
  He has 100% feedback over 1400 replies and sounds very customer oriented.
http://stores.ebay.com/TUBEHUNTER?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
   
  Here is the link to the tubes I purchased.  I will follow up after I've had time to listen to them.  I'm thinking of getting some Telefunken's for comparison.  After all, how can you not own something called Telefunken.
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221144304243?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  All-the-best


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> There are others far more qualified to answer your question.
> My Lyr has not yet arrived and I'm getting different tubes to play with.
> 
> I'm trying "tube hunter" on eBay to purchase some tubes to experiment.  His tubes are used and NOS, but he has a lot of variety in his catalog.  They look like a good value.
> ...


 
  Please do follow up. Most of his tubes do seem like very good value.


----------



## Iamnothim

Promise.
The tracking number for the Schiit gear and HD650's indicates Friday.... But we all know about that day.

Tubehunter is in AZ so I should get those are well. Besides the Amprex Orange I also bought a pair of 1962 Amprex Bugle Boy's

I am pretty sure they are used rather than NOS. The description would say NOS if they were NOS and they would cost $200 -$400. It's like a stock exchange, except tubes. . Just like stocks you can buy the tubes and 2 months later they're worthless.

I'll risk $120 for 2 pr. Rather than $300 for one new pair. My rationalization is that the NOS could become toast just as easily as tested used. Heck, new or used they're 30-50 years old. This tube rolling is a big boy hobby. $$. This is my first transaction but it looks a lot like stamp/coin collecting. Try to unearth a real gem cheap... That's step 2. A lot to learn.

Any review I write will be the opinion of a buck naked novice . Very subjective. I might not even know what im hearing This is my first set of cans and can amps, I have to burn them in etc. My only comparison is my Thiel CS 1.2 speakers off an Anthem AVM20 or. a Jolida SJ302b and it's been many years since running the Jolida. In fact I'm selling the Jolida. 

This is opposed to a HeadFi'r that owns lots of headphones and a substantial collection of tubes. That would be a review worth reading.

Finally I have a very good vibe from Tubehunter. Grea eBay feedback. Very responsive to emails. Says he stands by his product... which is crazy because unlike most products it's 50 yrs old, new or used, and might blow at any time not to mention being mishandled by a buyer installing them in the wrong gear. Who would want a business with that liability? Plus you don't even know if you can find more product. Gotta be love.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321023727038?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## DamageInc77

I just bought a pair for myself. I hope they will be good.


----------



## Iamnothim

damageinc77 said:


> I just bought a pair for myself. I hope they will be good.




If not, they'll make dandy Christmas tree ornaments.


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> If not, they'll make dandy Christmas tree ornaments.


 
  That'll make 'em the 3rd most expensive tree ornaments I got.


----------



## Iamnothim




----------



## Iamnothim

I've been reading in Wikipedia about vacuum tubes in general. Design and failure.  I know know what a getter is, however I only understand snip its.  The documents speaks to taking care not to bend the pins and keeping them clean so as not to compromise the integrity of the tube chamber.
   
  Pin corrosion could do just that and shorten the life of the tube.  That makes sense.
   
  Do you have knowledge of this and tube maintenance tips?  I have not googled that topic yet.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I've been reading in Wikipedia about vacuum tubes in general. Design and failure.  I know know what a getter is, however I only understand snip its.  The documents speaks to taking care not to bend the pins and keeping them clean so as not to compromise the integrity of the tube chamber.
> 
> Pin corrosion could do just that and shorten the life of the tube.  That makes sense.
> 
> Do you have knowledge of this and tube maintenance tips?  I have not googled that topic yet.


 
  I think the tube's life would die out before pin corrosion. As long as you're not using abrasive cleaning methods.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I think the tube's life would die out before pin corrosion. As long as you're not using abrasive cleaning methods.


 
  Perhaps and most probably. (your comment that is)
   
  I was visualizing this tiny amount of surface corrosion creeping it's was up the glass into the cavity......
  Paranoia.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Perhaps and most probably. (your comment that is)
> 
> I was visualizing this tiny amount of surface corrosion creeping it's was up the glass into the cavity......
> Paranoia.


 
  Your placebo (paranoia) is going to cause the tubes to burn out.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Your placebo (paranoia) is going to cause the tubes to burn out.


 
  You just saved me a ton of money on precision tube cleaning equipment.


----------



## MaJoMax

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Just scored:
> AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88  VACUUM TUBE 1969 DIMPLE GETTER MATCHED PAIR  HERLEEN NETHERLANDS 1969
> 
> 
> ...


 
  please make a review of those tubes!
  thx


----------



## Iamnothim

Ok.
  I'll start with those on Friday then move to the Bugle Boys later.
  I'm not going to bother with the JJ's.  Everyone has posted that there is a remarkable difference rolling those tubes....out and I'm too ADD to wait to listen to the Amprex.
   
  I have no idea what to expect.
   
  I've got newborn HD650's  From my reading it's going to take some time to burn them in.


----------



## Iamnothim

An important note that may have been mentioned earlier in this thread.
   
  Before turning the amp on after handling the tubes, wipe them off to remove any oils left by your fingers.  When the oil heats up it can crack the glass. This was in my Jolida manual.  Perhaps it's in the Lyr manual.  Perhaps it's rubbish.  At any rate it made sense to me.
   
  I use the solution that I use for cleaning my camera lenses. Nothing is left on the glass.


----------



## cthalupa

Been listening with some Mullard CV2492s. In love.


----------



## musicinmymind

I have a question on 220V to 120V converter to be used with schiit lyr and bifrost outside USA. I do have an converter which does 85 watts max, can I use it with Lyr and bifrost? is it safe?
   
  Please suggest


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





cthalupa said:


> Been listening with some Mullard CV2492s. In love.


 
  Would be helpful if you could describe how it changed/improved the sound signature and what you were using before.


----------



## asmoday

Just ordered a pair of Telefunken 6dj8 1960's Diamond Bottom tubes.
  These will be replacing the stock GE tubes. My first venture into tube rolling for the Lyr.


----------



## Iamnothim

In case anyone thinks rolling vintage tubes is Not like stamp collecting, I submit this from:
 http://www.audiotubes.com
  
 *6DJ8:*

 This is the standard incarnation of this tube. It was made both in the USA and in Western Europe. GE and Sylvania both made USA versions, and are fairly good quality. The GE tubes have an RF shield sprayed on inside the glass, making the inside look dark. This is NOT an indication of a burned out or used tube. RCA tubes were often made by either Mullard or Amperex in Britain or Holland. The most popular NOS vintage tubes are those made by Telefunken, Amperex, Siemens or Mullard, and are usually also labelled ECC88. See the next paragraph for this description.
  
 *ECC88:*

 This is the European designation for the 6DJ8 type tube. It is the same tube as a 6DJ8 and often the tube has both type numbers on it. The popular vintage tubes here are those by Telefunken, Amperex, or Mullard. The Telefunken are said to sound the best, and are the most difficult to find of all of these brands. All Telefunken tubes have a tiny diamond shape molded into the glass on the bottom, and have a very chalky ink on the surface which often is partially wiped off. Beware! These tubes are being reproduced in China, and look like the real thing, complete with diamond mark. The tipoff is the label: the fake labels will not wipe off.
 The Amperex can be found with a white label and the treble clef logo (rare), the Bugle Boy cartoon tube logo, Amperex in white ink, and the orange world logo. The orange world logo is the newest, and can be found in both standard "L" bracket top getter, and the rarer (and said to sound better) "A" frame top getter. The A-frame looks like a little metal "A" holding up the getter element on the top of the tube internal structure. I have also seen the A frame getter on some Mullard and Genalex (G.E.C.) tubes. The Bugle Boy is the most popular, almost to being a "designer" label, which has driven the price up and supplies down. See note below about Bugle Boy 6DJ8 tubes. I believe any of the Amperex / Philips Holland 1960s and 1970s 6DJ8 tubes are excellent, no matter which one you use. The tubes made with the plain white label (Amperex, DuMont, Hewlett-Packard, Beckman and others but all labelled "Holland") were made in the same factory as the Bugle Boy tubes and sound the same, but are often bargain priced due to low demand. Beware! The Bugle Boy tubes are being reproduced today! The box of the new tubes is even an identical green-and-yellow like the original, but it says "Bugle Boy" on it, and some even show the cartoon tube on the box. Original Amperex tubes NEVER had the words "Bugle Boy", or the cartoon tube, on the box. The Bugle Boy moniker is a slang name that audiophiles coined for the the little cartoon tube on the tube's label. The new tubes have fooled even some seasoned audiophiles! These are junky Chinese made tubes with the old label. The company vending them says they have the original burn-in racks from the old Holland factory. Big deal!! The old burn-in racks are not going to help a crappy tube. Stick with the vintage tubes while you still can!
  
 Lastly there's:


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> An important note that may have been mentioned earlier in this thread.
> 
> Before turning the amp on after handling the tubes, wipe them off to remove any oils left by your fingers.  When the oil heats up it can crack the glass. This was in my Jolida manual.  Perhaps it's in the Lyr manual.  Perhaps it's rubbish.  At any rate it made sense to me.
> 
> I use the solution that I use for cleaning my camera lenses. Nothing is left on the glass.


 
  While doing this probably can't hurt, it's not totally necessary. Tubes have quite thick glass and also don't get as hot as say halogen bulbs where you absolutely should try not to touch them.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> I have a question on 220V to 120V converter to be used with schiit lyr and bifrost outside USA. I do have an converter which does 85 watts max, can I use it with Lyr and bifrost? is it safe?
> 
> Please suggest


 
  Contact Schiit.
  Anything else would be sketchy.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> While doing this probably can't hurt, it's not totally necessary. Tubes have quite thick glass and also don't get as hot as say halogen bulbs where you absolutely should try not to touch them.


 
  Unless you're eating ribs.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





asmoday said:


> Just ordered a pair of Telefunken 6dj8 1960's Diamond Bottom tubes.
> These will be replacing the stock GE tubes. My first venture into tube rolling for the Lyr.


 
  I"m geeked over this new hobby.
  It's another subjective thing to talk about.  "I've found a pair of reverse label QZ800P's from Liechtenstein..... do you think they'll sound better..."  It's like Stax vs. Sennheiser.
   
  I know I'm a newb and that others are chuckling because they've been doing this for decades.  How cool is it to use electronics that are 30-40-50 years old?
   
  We have to start a "tube exchange" section in Head Gear.
  We can figure out the t's and c's


----------



## Iamnothim

Tube Exchange  1st cut.
   
  List your tubes on exchange.
  Submit the invoice when you purchased them.
  The party on the short side PayPal's the difference.
  Agree to the duration of the exchange.
  When the tubes are swapped back the short party gets a refund.
   
  You can't cover every circumstance, In the end it's about trust.
   
  Thoughts?
  Would anyone participate?
  Same as hardware trading, except on a temporary basis.


----------



## cthalupa

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Would be helpful if you could describe how it changed/improved the sound signature and what you were using before.


 
  I am completely inept with describing how audio changes, and I honestly have no idea what people mean most of the time when they start going off onto detailed descriptions. The best I can go with is that it sounds better to me. There's dozens of people who have described how the Mullard's sound to 'em in this thread, too.
   
  I had been using some 6N1Ps that I ordered at the same time as the Lyr.


----------



## Iamnothim

Regarding:
   
  Schiit Lyr
  and
  AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1969 DIMPLE GETTER MATCHED PAIR
   
  Buy them.


----------



## 333jeffery

I think I've been duped: I bought some E288CC tubes off ebay recently, and they arrived today. But, they didn't produce any sound when I plugged them into my Lyr. I took them out and examined them closely, only to find that the internals look quite different from my other E288CC's. I think somebody took another type of tube and printed "E288CC" on them. If anybody here bought some tubes listed as Siemens&Halskie E288CC from ebay recently, you may want to return them.


----------



## Iamnothim

333jeffery said:


> I think I've been duped: I bought some E288CC tubes off ebay recently, and they arrived today. But, they didn't produce any sound when I plugged them into my Lyr. I took them out and examined them closely, only to find that the internals look quite different from my other E288CC's. I think somebody took another type of tube and printed "E288CC" on them. If anybody here bought some tubes listed as Siemens&Halskie E288CC from ebay recently, you may want to return them.




I'm really sorry to hear that.
I hope the eBay vendor back up the product he sold you.

Today installed my very first set of tubes. I purchased them from "Tubehunter" on eBay.
I am delighted with how they sound.


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote:



iamnothim said:


> Regarding:
> 
> Schiit Lyr
> and
> ...


 
  Are they really that good? I bought mine a few days after you made your first post about them. I am really excited now.
   
  I should get them sometime next week.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> Are they really that good? I bought mine a few days after you made your first post about them. I am really excited now.
> 
> I should get them sometime next week.


 
   
 Caveats:
 1) This is my first set of headphones.
 2) I have 30 hours on Sennheiser HD650's.  There are many posts on the Sennheiser 650 thread stating they need at least 100 hours to open up.
 3) It's hard to deny that psychologically I wanted the tubes to sound better than the stock tubes, as this is not science.
  
 Ok:
 I have them in my hands.  I pick out a few HD Tracks 24/16 bit selections to listen to on the JJ's before I pull them.  Paul Simon Graceland remastered.  Buddy Guy & Jr. Wells ALone and Acoustic Sally Mae.  Beach Boys Pet Sounds God Only Knows, Elton Madman Across the Water, Beatles Rubber Soul (remastered) Norwegian Wood.
  
 I'm thinking, "I'm crazy.  No way I will be able to hear the difference."
  
 They made a difference and, to me, it wasn't subtle.  It was a "this is an amazing difference".  IMO The music opened up about 15-20%.  I swear I heard more components in God only Knows.  Breathing on vocals, more sustain on percussion.  A whole lot of little things.  The staccato of stings on Buddy Guy's guitar, the guitar in Madman, and the sitar in Norwegian Wood…  Astonishing  The sitar in Beatles tracks are drop dead gorgeous.  Like the best peach you've ever had with juice running down your face.  Just overwhelming.  Did I mention that I liked them?
  
 If it were easy to swap back to the JJ' and try again, I would.  However, 1) I don't want to give them up. and 2) I don't want to stress the pins on 40 yr old tubes.
  
 I also bought a pair of Amprex Bugle Boys.  It's going to be some time before I unwrap them and roll them in.  I can't imagine they'll sound better or…. I'll be able to pick up any difference. The Orange Globes will be "cemented" in place until I have 200-400 hours on the HD650's.  Then the Bugle Boy's…. Maybe.
  
 IMO… They are that good.
  
 I am looking forward, very much, to reading your opinion after you give your set a listen.  I really hope you enjoy them as much as I do.
  
 It's counter intuitive to think that an electrical component manufactured 40 years ago would sound better than something made today. Crazy.


----------



## Iamnothim

OK.  I have a problem.
  I've been using the Orange Globes one day.  I love their sound.
  The Bugle are still wrapped up.
   
  Then Why? Why did I buy these?
AMPEREX USN-CEP 6922 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1965 PAIR MATCHED PAIR BRAND NEWNIB
  (They are made in the USA.)
   
  Because I'm an easy sell and the eBay listing said:
*[size=medium]Once they are gone I have NO MORE. You may never see tubes like this again.[/size]*
*[size=medium]I have only ever seen a few in all my years.[/size]*
   
  As an old salesman I often used the quote:  "The fear of loss is greater than the desire to gain."
   
  I'm going to keep these bad boys under wraps for awhile.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Iamnothim, Im betting you can tell a difference between the holland made 6dj8 and the u.s 6922 amperex. Imho you should totally roll them, you might like what you hear.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Iamnothim, Im betting you can tell a difference between the holland made 6dj8 and the u.s 6922 amperex. Imho you should totally roll them, you might like what you hear.


 
  I appreciate that.
  and...I better like what I hear !
  Knowing my total lack of patience...... the smart money is on rolling asap.
   
  I'm very new, but having a great time.


----------



## sensui123

Having a jolly ol' time rolling tubes lately.....too busy to even post much hah.  But I just received the e288cc telefunkens today from ebay.....some things seem to set off an alarm for me:
   
  1)  There is no signature diamond etch at the bottom of the tubes....just says 1....or 7.....on the bottom.
  2)  The printing doesn't really come off @ all when I'm even picking at it with my finger nail.
   
  Can some experts chime in here?  These seem like fakes to me compared to my other set of telefunken e188cc.  Appreciate any feedback in advance.
   
  P.S.  Original ebay auction for some pictures of the tubes in questions:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/180890573733?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> Having a jolly ol' time rolling tubes lately.....too busy to even post much hah.  But I just received the e288cc telefunkens today from ebay.....some things seem to set off an alarm for me:
> 
> 1)  There is no signature diamond etch at the bottom of the tubes....just says 1....or 7.....on the bottom.
> 2)  The printing doesn't really come off @ all when I'm even picking at it with my finger nail.
> ...


 
  I personally would never buy from Korea, but he does have perfect eBay feedback. Have you contacted him?


----------



## sensui123

Yeah already sent an inquiry,  The good thing is ebay will always side with the customer so he's the one in the hot seat....the perfect feedback is what got me buyin and the fact the e288cc aren't that easy to find for the telefunkens.....*sigh*


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> Having a jolly ol' time rolling tubes lately.....too busy to even post much hah.  But I just received the e288cc telefunkens today from ebay.....some things seem to set off an alarm for me:
> 
> 1)  There is no signature diamond etch at the bottom of the tubes....just says 1....or 7.....on the bottom.
> 2)  The printing doesn't really come off @ all when I'm even picking at it with my finger nail.
> ...


 
  From Audio Tubes .com....
   
 E288CC:  [size=medium]This unusual tube is basically a 7308 / E188CC in a slightly taller bottle. The filament current draw is also slightly higher but for most applications it is plug and play compatible with the 6922, 7308, Cca, or even the 6DJ8. Physical space is a consideration, since the tube is about one-half inch taller than the rest of the tubes on this page. It features gold pins, factory screened triodes for low noise, 10,000 heater life, and all the other great features that make the 7308 and the Cca such high-demand tubes. Since it is a relative unknown, the prices are about the same as good 6922 tubes, and far below that of most 7308 or Cca types! I have only seen this tube in Valvo, Telefunken, or Siemens brands. Worth giving a try if you want the best but cannot afford the soaring costs of NOS 7308 or Cca tubes.[/size]
   
  The description in the eBay auction and the pictures seem to match Brent Jessee's write up (above)  That said I get the impression that the tube should have cost less.
   
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> But I just received the e288cc telefunkens today from ebay.....some things seem to set off an alarm for me:


 
   
  It's clear that those were not made by Telefunken. It seems to me that they were made by Siemens for Telefunken. I don't think that they are fakes as such.
   
  Is there an etched code, or a metal tab with four characters fixed to a support?


----------



## sensui123

Yeah it does.  They both say N5 on the top row and 8G on the bottom row.  Really confusing with all these small variations and fake tubes out there for tube noobs. =X


----------



## Oskari

In that case, Siemens it is.


----------



## Iamnothim

I do not know enough about tubes to give an authoritative opinion.
   
  My observations after reading the eBay listing and blowing up the images is that the tubes look very clean.  Almost too clean.
  There's no date listed in the auction write-up.  I found that strange.
   
  Here's the eBay vender I used:  http://stores.ebay.com/TUBEHUNTER?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
   
  He has a ton of information and goes out of his way to talk about how to return tubes.


----------



## sensui123

Arg....still going to raise a stink since I was expecting telefunken manufactured tubes.  That's false advertising from his auction listing.  Thanks for the info Oskari!
   
  Iamnothim, yeah....but he had perfect feedback so I figured I take the plunge *sigh*.  Hopefully this turns out for the better, the last fiasco with the other ebay seller I had issues with resulted ok since he refunded my $$.  Gotta really watch yourself on fleabay these days.


----------



## 333jeffery

Siemens made some tubes for Telefunken, hence no double diamond on the tube. My Telefunken E288cc's--the ones I love so much--were made by Siemens. So, don't panic!


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> Siemens made some tubes for Telefunken, hence no double diamond on the tube. My Telefunken E288cc's--the ones I love so much--were made by Siemens. So, don't panic!


 
   
  Yeah, going to plug these bad boys in tonight to see how they sound before I make the final call of how I want this handled with the seller heh.  Thanks for confirming 333jeffery.


----------



## Iamnothim

This is kind of a bummer.....  Perhaps you shouldn't look:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-pair-of-Telefunken-E288CC-E88CC-vacuum-tubes-manufacturer-Siemens-/120976234595?nma=true&si=%2Br0R7%2FvJ7ajGN5%2F8holBUvqkPus%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> Siemens made some tubes for Telefunken, hence no double diamond on the tube. My Telefunken E288cc's--the ones I love so much--were made by Siemens. So, don't panic!


 
  What do you use as a reference?
  I'd love to get a book or link that has identification information, etc.


----------



## Iamnothim

On another topic:
   
For all you guys that want to try tube rolling:
   
OK.  I'm slightly off my gord.
One time only offer.
**You must be a Lyr owner with stock tubes...... No experienced tube rollers.

I will loan you my Amprex Orange Globes.

You read that right.
I'll send them out USPS
Post what you think and send them back in a month.

I'm new to the community and I'd like to contribute.


----------



## olor1n

Good to read some positive impressions on the Orange Globes. I tried to get the word out earlier in this thread but was mainly a lone voice. They are magnificent with the HD650. I didn't enjoy the Bugles as much with that headphone, but they have really great synergy with the HD800.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Good to read some positive impressions on the Orange Globes. I tried to get the word out earlier in this thread but was mainly a lone voice. They are magnificent with the HD650. I didn't enjoy the Bugles as much with that headphone, but they have really great synergy with the HD800.


 
  You are spot on.
  I'm listening to the Bugle Boys now.  
  Right away they sound weak, smaller soundstage perhaps.  Missing something the the Orange Globes have.


----------



## DamageInc77

I just the Orange Globes in the mail today.
   
  My initial impressions were very good, but I feel that I should let them burn in for a day or two before I can be sure.
   
  Gotta give 'em time to open up.


----------



## Iamnothim

damageinc77 said:


> I just the Orange Globes in the mail today.
> 
> My initial impressions were very good, but I feel that I should let them burn in for a day or two before I can be sure.
> 
> Gotta give 'em time to open up.



 I completely agree. 
I did not know this about tubes.
When I put my orange globes in I heard and immediate difference from the stock tubes.

When I rolled to the Bugle Boys I was shocked and disappointed. However, after warming them up for a few hours they came allive. I guess if the Genie has been sleeping for 45 years it takes time for him to wake up.

Even more so with NOS.


----------



## Iamnothim

Amprex Roll:
  I suspect it will take a few days, if not longer for NOS tubes to settle in.
   
*OUT:*
  AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1962 O GETTER MATCHED (Holland)
   
   
   

   
*IN:*
  AMPEREX USN-CEP 6922 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1965 PAIR MATCHED PAIR (USA) NOS


----------



## sensui123

Deadly hobby.....really is.  Listening to the Lorenz Stuggarts now.....I am officially wow'ed over @ the dimensionality of these tubes.  And that's after listening to a lot of other nice stuff (e288cc siemens, amperex hollands, mullards varities, Siemens A frames, Siemens/Haskel ccA's grey shields, e188cc varieties etc).  Definitely deserves the high praise I've been seeing on this thread.


----------



## Iamnothim

[size=small]Opinion:[/size]
   
AMPEREX USN-CEP 6922 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1965 PAIR MATCHED PAIR (USA) NOS
   
Well, this didn't take long. (2 hrs.)
I thought the Amprex Orange Globes were beautiful.  And they are.
The Amprex Bugle Boy's with my Senn HD650's ...  Much better than stock but not as nice as the Orange Globes.
   
  [size=small]Then there's these 65' Amprex USA's[/size]
IMO....These tubes (USA) are from another planet.
It defies logic how a tube could make such a dramatic difference.  Incredible voice and definition.  They gush music.
Dimentionality.  Good word.
I cannot see how anything will sound better.... to me.  Perhaps tripling the cost of my kit.  Not going to happen.
Perhaps they're just a great fit with the HD650's.   Don't know, don't really care.
   
  [size=small]How much do I like them?[/size]
  [size=small]I spent another $250 on another set as a "hot spare"[/size]
  [size=small]If they are rare now, they'll only get harder to find.[/size]
   
  [size=small]I think I'm done rolling.[/size]
  [size=small]I happy..... make that estatic. [/size]


----------



## paradoxper

How can you be done? There's still so many tubes you've yet to experience! C'mon dude! Plus, your wallet still looks too fat.


----------



## Iamnothim

My bets are covered.
Got my hot spare.

Maybeeeeeeee


----------



## OldSkool

Lamnothim, better listen to 'Dox...he's telling ya right. You're not done 'til we say you're done. 

Now get back in there and find a nice pair of Mullard CV-2493's


----------



## Iamnothim

I've had hundreds of hobbies over the years and each time I go way over the top. Always chasing specs. 

At the moment I'm thinking I should listen to some music. 
But I'll be fighting my DNA


----------



## paradoxper

Hm. You wouldn't be chasing different specs, different flavors, surely.


----------



## OldSkool

Seriously, I'm glad you are happy with those rare Amperex USN's. Enjoy 'em!

I'm smiling because your Lyr tube experiences mirror my own. Substitute my Amperex A-frames for your Amperex Orange Globes, and my Lorenz Stuttgarts (plus backup pair) for your '65 Amperex USN's (plus backup pair)...and it's interesting how we both traveled that same path.

Oh, and watch out for Paradox....he's an enabler for those of us afflicted with terminal tubeitus


----------



## sensui123

Hah......enabler is an understatement...I mean....I prefer the term educator but still....we all know what we're each guilty of.  =P
   
  /me slaps hand, bad itchy fingers ordering more tubes.


----------



## Iamnothim

I can't hear you, I can't hear you.....

OldSkool. That's right! Cover your bets. 

Then maybe..... When the coast is clear


----------



## Iamnothim

paradoxper said:


> Hm. You wouldn't be chasing different specs, different flavors, surely.




Bordeaux for the ears.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Seriously, I'm glad you are happy with those rare Amperex USN's. Enjoy 'em!
> I'm smiling because your Lyr tube experiences mirror my own. Substitute my Amperex A-frames for your Amperex Orange Globes, and my Lorenz Stuttgarts (plus backup pair) for your '65 Amperex USN's (plus backup pair)...and it's interesting how we both traveled that same path.
> Oh, and watch out for Paradox....he's an enabler for those of us afflicted with terminal tubeitus


 
   
  Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> Hah......enabler is an understatement...I mean....I prefer the term educator but still....we all know what we're each guilty of.  =P
> 
> /me slaps hand, bad itchy fingers ordering more tubes.


 
   
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Bordeaux for the ears.


 
   
   
   
  ^^^BUNCH OF SUCKERS ALL AROUND! ^^^


----------



## Iamnothim

paradoxper said:


> ^^^BUNCH OF SUCKERS ALL AROUND! ^^^




Hey!
I resemble that remark.


----------



## Iamnothim

And 
They double as Christmas ornaments !

Trying that on the wife.


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> ^^^BUNCH OF SUCKERS ALL AROUND! ^^^


 
   Pffft.....guy's got it easy with them pure solid states now.


----------



## Lord Soth

AFAIK, Telefunken never made any e288cc valves.

They were all made by Siemens and branded as Philips, Valvo, Telefunken and ermmm Siemens.

A lot of folks don't know this so a Telefunken E288CC always fetches the highest price on EBay.


----------



## Lord Soth

paradoxper said:


> ^^^BUNCH OF SUCKERS ALL AROUND! ^^^




Pssst..........
Let's not stop these tube rollers from trying to stimulate the flagging US economy.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

This thread is making me want to sell my Lyr and buy a good solid-state AMP/DAC...


----------



## Iamnothim

It's late. All the techno music guys are out.
SS Vampire music.


----------



## Lord Soth

sensui123 said:


> Deadly hobby.....really is.  Listening to the Lorenz Stuggarts now.....I am officially wow'ed over @ the dimensionality of these tubes.  And that's after listening to a lot of other nice stuff (e288cc siemens, amperex hollands, mullards varities, Siemens A frames, Siemens/Haskel ccA's grey shields, e188cc varieties etc).  Definitely deserves the high praise I've been seeing on this thread.




Whoa!!!!!!

I've been down that path before.

Siemens CCa..... Yawn
Telefunkens..... Slight pause........Yawn
Lorenz Stuttgart..... Pause.... Long Pause.... But Yawn

I suggest paying the $$$$ upfront for a matched pair of Amperex pinched waist 6922 tubes.
They are really the best and you will never ever have to look over your shoulder for the next "better" valve again!


----------



## Lord Soth

iamnothim said:


> Opinion:
> 
> AMPEREX USN-CEP 6922 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1965 PAIR MATCHED PAIR (USA) NOS
> 
> ...




You've hit the Jackpot!!!

The Amperex *USA 6922 has around 90% of the sonic signature of the famous holy grail pinched waist tubes AND at a much cheaper price.
My tubes were the D getter with grey shields.

YMMV for the later "O" getter version.


----------



## Iamnothim

lord soth said:


> You've hit the Jackpot!!!
> The Amperex *USA 6922 has around 90% of the sonic signature of the famous holy grail pinched waist tubes AND at a much cheaper price.
> My tubes were the D getter with grey shields.
> YMMV for the later "O" getter version.




Thanks.
I'm new to this but but I thought so. I really trust Tubehunter on eBay.
Ron said essentially the same thing as you. I appreciate you confirming that.

I like them very much. I've got Chopin in my ears now.


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> AFAIK, Telefunken never made any e288cc valves.
> They were all made by Siemens and branded as Philips, Valvo, Telefunken and ermmm Siemens.
> A lot of folks don't know this so a Telefunken E288CC always fetches the highest price on EBay.


 
   
  Darn you Lord Soth, you chimed in a tad too late lol.  Lesson learned. =X
   
  I also picked up 2 sets of the amperex white pq 7308 e188cc and they are pretty amazing as well.  You're so right on the ccA count.....they are really a bit of a downer for the $$....I think the lorenz is worth more....but solid enough of a tube for me to grab an extra pair that I'm regretting now since it's noisy -_-......


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Nice pics iam and congrats sensui on the Lorenz, they are still my favorites for the lyr.


I really don't have much to add, just figuring out how to navigate the new mobile site


Edit
Ok not sure I'm digging the mobile site I was like two pages behind and didn't know till I switched to the desktop site. anyway nice get on the 6922 amperex's iam and sorry bout the noisy tube sensui, what version are they?


----------



## Lord Soth

I'm also struggling with the mobile version!!! 

And I thought it was my own clumsy fat fingers. LOL


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Nice pics iam and congrats sensui on the Lorenz, they are still my favorites for the lyr.
> I really don't have much to add, just figuring out how to navigate the new mobile site
> Edit
> Ok not sure I'm digging the mobile site I was like two pages behind and didn't know till I switched to the desktop site. anyway nice get on the 6922 amperex's iam and sorry bout the noisy tube sensui, what version are they?


 
   
  Mobile site?  There's a mobile version of H-F now?  Finally?  Sheesh, if only that were up months ago!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

iemcrazy said:


> Mobile site?  There's a mobile version of H-F now?  Finally?  Sheesh, if only that were up months ago!



not bad, they cut out the banners and ads for the most part. Only thing I would change is they don't tell you how many posts have been added to your subscriptions, just a star instead


----------



## Iamnothim

Loads faster and I like the nav.


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Nice pics iam and congrats sensui on the Lorenz, they are still my favorites for the lyr.
> I really don't have much to add, just figuring out how to navigate the new mobile site
> Edit
> Ok not sure I'm digging the mobile site I was like two pages behind and didn't know till I switched to the desktop site. anyway nice get on the 6922 amperex's iam and sorry bout the noisy tube sensui, what version are they?


 
   
  I bought these from audiogon, contacting the guy now to return....not a happy camper.  After this ordeal, I think I'm going to pick up a set of those 6922 US amperex these guys are spewing about....just to see what the fuss is. =P
   
  http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-siemens-cca-w-germany-gray-plates-blue-and-yellow-boxes-2012-11-19-accessories-30004


----------



## Iamnothim

If you're in the US I loan you my spare pair when they come in.


----------



## sensui123

Mighty generous of you thanks!  But I wouldn't want to be responsible for possible damage during transit etc.  I can pick up a set of my own heh, just need the refund to come back from these ccA's so the wife doesn't suffocate me in my sleep.


----------



## Iamnothim

That's cool.
  I like the sense of community.
  I sent a member my orange globes.
  I packaged them in this:
  $5 shipping USPS


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Huh how many sets can you fit into it? I take my amp/tubes to local meets and wouldn't mind some extra protection


----------



## Iamnothim

I will measure ..
   
   

 *Exterior Dimensions:* 6.855" x 4.563" x 3.590"
 *Interior Dimensions:* 5.691" x 3.063" x 2.741"
   
http://www.otterbox.com/OtterBox-Drybox-2500/OTR3-2500S,default,pd.html
   
  $20.50 direct.  You will find them for less on eBay/Amazon.
   
  One more thing.  There is a padded version and a non padded.
  I have the padded..   I think that's the one above.


----------



## Iamnothim

This is the larger one.
  3000 series:
http://www.otterbox.com/OtterBox-Drybox-3510/OTR3-3510S,default,pd.html?dwvar_OTR3-3510S_color=05&start=1&cgid=otterbox-3000-cases
   
Waterproof tested to 100 feet. Waterproof, crushproof and airtight protection for GPS units, cameras, small video cameras, hunting ammo, fishing supplies and so much more. Available in black, yellow and blue and comes with a "Pick-N-Pluck" foam insert. 



 Exterior Dimensions: 8.813" x 5.175" x 4.179"
 Interior Dimensions: 7.549" x 3.606" x 3.326"


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Ok otterbox they make my cellphone case. Good idea for tubes


----------



## OldSkool

Check cigar shops for those Otterboxes. They should already have foam dividers that were intended to hold cigars, but work well on tubes.


----------



## Iamnothim

I have a several different OtterBox dry boxes. Using some 6922 tube boxes I could fit 21 tubes standing on end. (7 x 3) If I had a wrap of small cell bubble wrap it would be 18 tubes. (6 x3) A boxed tube stands level with the top of the container. The domed lid you allow for about another 1/2 inch in height. The padded cases have a 1/16th of an inch of a neoprene coating on the inside. I do not believe it would change the capacity. I didn't want to empty out the coated one to measure. I use these cases for a lot of different stuff. Photography stuff, filters, memory cards, etc. The I put the boxes in my camera backpack. I like organization. I thought they'd be perfect for tubes because mold and humidity will not get inside. You could throw in a silica pack for good measure. Since I brought this up I checked SBK and Pelican for similar sizes. I didn't see any.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Most hardware stores sell foam that you can cut up to use in an Otterbox. Just a thought.


----------



## Iamnothim

Here's how nutty I am.
   
  I found boxes that are the same size as the ones my Amprex came in.
  1 1/16" x 1 1/16" x 3"
  A nickel each.
   
  Gotta by 1000 at $53
   
http://www.papermart.com/Product%20Pages/Product.aspx?GroupID=39380&SubGroupID=39378&ParentGroupID=20396#39378
   
  I'm loony enough to buy some.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





dougoftheabaci said:


> Most hardware stores sell foam that you can cut up to use in an Otterbox. Just a thought.


 
  You're right.
  Even if you only fit a dozen thats good.
  Plus one of the OtterBox series includes "pick and pluck" foam.
   
  The boxes wold be cool because you can write on them.


----------



## Iamnothim

My DAC Bake-Off.
  
 Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus
 Senn HD650 > Lyr > DM+ > USB2 > MacBook Pro
 vs
 Schiit Audio Bifrost
 Senn HD650 > Lyr > Bifrost > Toslink > MacBook Pro
  
 Source: 
 Paul Simon Graceland, remastered 24bit / 96kHz
 Also: Mozart Violin Concerto No. 3  24/192kHz
  
 My choice:  Schiit Audio Lyr.
 Why: More musical, easier to listen to, very sweet.
 Not that I don't like my DM+ for my room system
 I enjoyed the Lyr on headphones more.


----------



## Lord Soth

sensui123 said:


> I bought these from audiogon, contacting the guy now to return....not a happy camper.  After this ordeal, I think I'm going to pick up a set of those 6922 US amperex these guys are spewing about....just to see what the fuss is. =P
> 
> http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-siemens-cca-w-germany-gray-plates-blue-and-yellow-boxes-2012-11-19-accessories-30004




The Lorenz tubes are really good.

But after listening to Amperex 6922, I realized that there was a slight sonic veil from the Lorenz valves, hence my preference for the Amperex 6922.
I'm the type who favors sonic transparency.
So YMMV.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> The Lorenz tubes are really good.
> But after listening to Amperex 6922, I realized that there was a slight sonic veil from the Lorenz valves, hence my preference for the Amperex 6922.
> I'm the type who favors sonic transparency.
> So YMMV.


 

 What are your thoughts on the Mullard CV-2492/2493?
   
  How do the Mullards differ sonically from the Amperex 6922?


----------



## Lord Soth

oldskool said:


> What are your thoughts on the Mullard CV-2492/2493?
> 
> How do the Mullards differ sonically from the Amperex 6922?




Mullards have even more warmth in the mids than Amperex valves.
If your system is too bright sounding, they could be just the ticket to audio nirvana.

Here's a rough scale of the various ECC88/E88CC/7308/PCC88 family of tubes I have rolled.
Most lean sounding are Chinese ( Yucky over brightness) valves.

German valves are lean but not too overly bright. Telefunkens are lean but they do something wonderful to the midrange. Their weakness is the lack of bass especially Siemens CCA. 
Lorenz valves are linear but have great bass.

Amperex/Philips have more warmth, just right for most people hence their popularity.

Mullards have even more warmth. They are like the Russian valves with plenty of warmth.
The difference between Mullards and Russians is that there is greater distortion or sonic veil for the Russian valves.
Even amongst Mullards, there is a difference between Blackburn and Mitcham factories. Most people claim that Blackburn Mullards sound better.

Within each type, e.g. Mullards.
ECC88/PCC88 have the widest soundstage and most impactful bass.
6922 are a stepup in terms of sonic transparency and seem to lift a veil off the sound.
7308s seem to have the quietest backgrounds and are most suited for preamp use.

These are my general observations.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Mullards have even more warmth in the mids than Amperex valves.
> If your system is too bright sounding, they could be just the ticket to audio nirvana.
> Here's a rough scale of the various ECC88/E88CC/7308/PCC88 family of tubes I have rolled.
> Most lean sounding are Chinese ( Yucky over brightness) valves.
> ...


 

 Thank you very much! Your experiences are always helpful to us.
   
  A pair of mid-60's Mullard "large shield, halo getter" CV-2493's arrived yesterday. The mids are indeed very nice and sound exactly like a newer early-70's "dimple-getter" version I have. However, the older Mullards have slightly better bass, to my delight. They also run a little cooler than the Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8's that I'm used to. Very nice, indeed.


----------



## Lord Soth

oldskool said:


> Thank you very much! Your experiences are always helpful to us.
> 
> A pair of mid-60's Mullard "large shield, halo getter" CV-2493's arrived yesterday. The mids are indeed very nice and sound exactly like a newer early-70's "dimple-getter" version I have. However, the older Mullards have slightly better bass, to my delight. They also run a little cooler than the Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8's that I'm used to. Very nice, indeed.




In general, if possible , the oldest D getters sound the best with tube warmth but without overly distorting the sound.
Newer valves with O getters and silver shields seem to sound sonically leaner.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Mullards have even more warmth in the mids than Amperex valves.
> If your system is too bright sounding, they could be just the ticket to audio nirvana.
> Here's a rough scale of the various ECC88/E88CC/7308/PCC88 family of tubes I have rolled.
> Most lean sounding are Chinese ( Yucky over brightness) valves.
> ...


 
   
  Great input, thanks. 
   
  Matched sets of Mullard 6922s can go for $250. so it seems like the Amperex Orange Globes are a great 'compromise'. To me, they don't even seem like a compromise at all give how much less they cost yet how much better than the stock Lyr tubes they sound.


----------



## Iamnothim

lord soth said:


> In general, if possible , the oldest D getters sound the best with tube warmth but without overly distorting the sound.
> Newer valves with O getters and silver shields seem to sound sonically leaner.




IYO: Over stock, what is the best "bang for the buck" valve?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> IYO: Over stock, what is the best "bang for the buck" valve?


 
   
  In general, PCC88s are really good value.
  Normal retail price for Siemens PCC88 is US$50 per piece.
  On Ebay, you can usually get them for much less.
   
  More details over here :-
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/pages/6922-Tube-Types.html
   
  The PCC88s made by Siemens are really good value.
  They are linear sounding with good extension at the bottom (i.e has bass) and at the top (i.e. has treble).
   
  Older Version and best sounding (i.e. with the good old tube warmth) sample here :-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Siemens-PCC88-PCC-88-Audio-Tube-Made-in-Munich-Grey-Shield-NOS-/320982659803?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4abc0eb2db
   
  Newer version (less tube warmth) sample here:-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-TELEFUNKEN-SIEMENS-PCC88-7DJ8-ECC88-SUB-SILVER-SHIELDS-NOSIB-/290823567553?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b66f78c1
   
  Siemens PCC88s are also packaged like the "famous" Telefunken E288CCs.
  These are all made by Siemens if they don't have the <> at the bottom.
  Another sample of a Telefunken (actually Siemens PCC88) over here
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-PCC88-%7B47%7D-7DJ8.html
   
  From all the rave reviews posted on Upscale, you can see how well received they are.
  Altho' some of those reviewers had no inkling that they were actually talking about Siemens PCC88!! 
   
  For the Telefunken PCC88s made by the actual Telefunken with <> at the bottom, sample over here :-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-PCC88-7DJ8-matched-quad-x4-THE-BEST-/200853977064?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item2ec3d477e8
   
  The midrange is really sweet. Only problem I have (with these) is the lack of bass.
  But if you just listen to Jazz vocals, the Telefunken <> PCC88s are really good value.
   
  BTW, the best PCC88 of all is the Lorenz Stuttgart variety.
  The sonic veil is almost non-existent, unless you compare with the 6922 variety.


----------



## sensui123

Yeah, I thought I'd chime in about the cv2492/cv2493 mullards.  They really are a different breed compared to the likes of amperex and siemen tubes.  They are just so smooth and mid/low heavy....don't get me wrong, they are detailed at the same time but does not have the transparency of the amperex tubes that you guys are discussing (I haven't tried that 6922, soon though soon)......cv2493/cv2492 is a really solid choice IMO to get that "tube amp" ish sound most people crave.


----------



## Iamnothim

This thread is great. Folks with experience taking the time to provide detailed information as well as opinions without making us noob's feel like we're a buch of dimwits. 

It's refreshing compared to some other threads. 

Kudos.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> Yeah, I thought I'd chime in about the cv2492/cv2493 mullards.  They really are a different breed compared to the likes of amperex and siemen tubes.  They are just so smooth and mid/low heavy....don't get me wrong, they are detailed at the same time but does not have the transparency of the amperex tubes that you guys are discussing (I haven't tried that 6922, soon though soon)......cv2493/cv2492 is a really solid choice IMO to get that "tube amp" ish sound most people crave.


 

 Good insight! The '67 CV2493's that I listened to this morning were indeed smooooth. I was actually surprised at hearing a bit more bass than I expected. Aren't these Mullard military CV2492s/93s supposed to be 10,000 hour tubes? Maybe not, but it seems I read that somewhere.
   
  Just rolled in a set of '70 Amperex 6DJ8 A-frames (white lettering, red RCA stamped on them) and these guys are more "in your face". Still nice tubes, sound is similar to the 6DJ8 Amperex Orange Globes.
   
  I love this thread also. Nobody preaching, just lots of great info.


----------



## OldSkool

Late this afternoon, I stayed with the Amperex 6DJ8 A-frames but switched from the HE-500 to the HD650. The presentation went from "in your face" to "oh my God". Mids are perfect, bass is tight, Treble very nice, and the soundstage widened.
   
  I gotta agree with Olor1N and Lamnothim and MattTCG and the rest of you guys....the Amperex 6DJ8 orange globes have very, very nice synergy with the HD650's. As always, YMMV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Also, I just have to thank my wife for the best week of vacation I have had in a great while. She graciously allowed me to spend the entire week just listening to my headphones and playing with all these funny-looking glass tubes. Gotta love that!


----------



## Iamnothim

oldskool said:


> Late this afternoon, I stayed with the Amperex 6DJ8 A-frames but switched from the HE-500 to the HD650. The presentation went from "in your face" to "oh my God". Mids are perfect, bass is tight, Treble very nice, and the soundstage widened.
> 
> I gotta agree with Olor1N and Lamnothim and MattTCG and the rest of you guys....the Amperex 6DJ8 orange globes have very, very nice synergy with the HD650's. As always, YMMV. :wink_face:
> 
> Also, I just have to thank my wife for the best week of vacation I have had in a great while. She graciously allowed me to spend the entire week just listening to my headphones and playing with all these funny-looking glass tubes. Gotta love that!




I am so glad you posted about the HE500.
I was going back and forth before deciding on the HD650's.  I was drawn to the planer concept.  Then I looked at the Head-Fi ranking and picked what I thought was a safe choice. 

 I'm glad I chose the Senn's.  Besides sonics an attribute with almost equal weigh to me is comfort.  I figured I would want to listen for many hours.  The HiFi Man and Aldeze look a bit heavy and bulky.  

To my question,  I'm already zeroing in on Phase II   Probably the HD800.  they are said to be amazingly comfortable.  How will they matchup sonically  with a Lyr and Amprex 6922 USA?


----------



## Lord Soth

sensui123 said:


> Yeah, I thought I'd chime in about the cv2492/cv2493 mullards.  They really are a different breed compared to the likes of amperex and siemen tubes.  They are just so smooth and mid/low heavy....don't get me wrong, they are detailed at the same time but does not have the transparency of the amperex tubes that you guys are discussing (I haven't tried that 6922, soon though soon)......cv2493/cv2492 is a really solid choice IMO to get that "tube amp" ish sound most people crave.




Those Mullard valves are also a favorite of the famous Skylab over here.
They have a well deserved rep in these parts.


----------



## Lord Soth

oldskool said:


> I love this thread also. Nobody preaching, just lots of great info.




+1
This is the greatest thread ever on ECC88 and related valves.

Lots of useful info!

And pleasant company too


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> To my question,  I'm already zeroing in on Phase II   Probably the HD800.  they are said to be amazingly comfortable.  How will they matchup sonically  with a Lyr and Amprex 6922 USA?


 
  Unfortunately, I have never heard the HD800's.
   
  But if you trust Olor1N (and you should), hang onto those Bugle Boys you bought. He says the HD800/BB pairing is special.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> +1
> This is the greatest thread ever on ECC88 and related valves.
> Lots of useful info!
> And pleasant company too


 

 My feelings as well. Cheers!


----------



## Iamnothim

oldskool said:


> Unfortunately, I have never heard the HD800's.
> 
> But if you trust Olor1N (and you should), hang onto those Bugle Boys you bought. He says the HD800/BB pairing is special.




Yeah. I remember.
Even though they take up a lot of room, I'll probably keep em .


----------



## Iamnothim

Anybody using these?


----------



## Heathen999

I am currently using Telefunken ECC88 1960 Diamond bottom. 
   
  Thinking maybe I will try the Amperex PQ Gold Pins next. 
   
  Anything anyone here might recommend for the HiFiMan HE-500?


----------



## DamageInc77

I have now listened to the Amperex Orange Globes tubes from 1969 for a couple of days and I must say they are amazing.
   
  I got them from mercedesman6572 on eBay.
   
  My audio chain: FLAC -> Asus Xonar Essence ST RCA -> Schiit Lyr -> Toxic Cable 10ft OCC Cryo Silver/Copper -> Audeze LCD-2
   
  I am comparing them to the stock GE 6BZ7 and the JJ E88CC.
  My thoughts mirror the impressions that Iamnothim wrote earlier in this thread.
   
  The first impressions I had were actually quite negative. The mids seemed thin and the treble was downright harsh. I was really hoping that burning them in would improve them. I let them burn in for just over 30 hours and boy was I in for a surprise.
   
  For only 60 bucks, they were a steal. Not only do they add an entirely new layer of detail, they also shaped both the treble and the bass right up. The mids also seem more ... uhhhh.... betterer. Vocals seem a whole lot more real, as if the singer is right in the room with you. Usually people go on about feeling the need to listen to all their music again with even the tiniest upgrades. I did not do that, but I did however, listen to all my Pink Floyd albums again. For some reason, while it may be psychological, the difference seemed to be biggest with their albums. The song that stood out to me the most is "Mother" from The Wall. It seemed like the entire band was right in front of me.
   
  These tubes have added a new level of enjoyment to music for me. They are sold out where I purchased them from, but if you find them anywhere else, buy them. They go quick.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> I have now listened to the Amperex Orange Globes tubes from 1969 for a couple of days and I must say they are amazing.
> 
> I got them from mercedesman6572 on eBay.
> 
> ...


 





   
  eBay store..Tubehunter....


----------



## 333jeffery

I've found another tube-type that works in the Lyr: PCC85 and it's substitute, the ECC85. I bought some Telefunken PCC85's for about $25 a tube off of ebay just to test them out. And, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that they sound almost as good as the E288CC's that I love so much. I think that these are the best "budget" tubes for the Lyr. There are loads of them for sale online at pretty reasonable prices. Sound great with rock, pop, and jazz recordings.


----------



## Iamnothim

Once you go Orange....


----------



## MickeyVee

OK, you got me, price is right. Just ordered a pair of AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1969 DIMPLE GETTER
Been without my Lyr for a couple of weeks as it's in the shop getting the relay installed. I've been running with stock GE 's and have been pretty happy with them. Also have the Amperex PQ A-Frames, some Matsu and Mullard E88CC/6922. Should keep me happy for a while!


----------



## Heathen999

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Once you go Orange....


 
  Would you recommend the Orange over the PQ?


----------



## MrScary

Ohhh my you guys are stouting the Amperex Oran as good sounding tubes?... dear  they sound ok but pale in comparison to just about anything but he bottom of the barrel..
  This thread has gone to hell....
   
  Glad I was active when we really had a consensus on what good was... god you guys need help


----------



## Iamnothim

mickeyvee said:


> OK, you got me, price is right. Just ordered a pair of AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1969 DIMPLE GETTER
> 
> Been without my Lyr for a couple of weeks as it's in the shop getting the relay
> installed. I've been running with stock GE 's and have been pretty happy with them. Also have the Amperex PQ A-Frames, some Matsu and Mullard E88CC/6922. Should keep me happy for a while!


I think you'll be happy


----------



## Iamnothim

heathen999 said:


> Would you recommend the Orange over the PQ?




PQ is "Premium Quality". SQ is "Special Quality". I have not heard either but I am under the impression they are better than Orange or Bugle Boys. They are all going to sound different. You get into the long green when you find pinched waist D getters 
 Orange over stock for $60. a good value


----------



## Heathen999

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> PQ is "Premium Quality". SQ is "Special Quality". I have not heard either but I am under the impression they are better than Orange or Bugle Boys. They are all going to sound different. You get into the long green when you find pinched waist D getters
> Orange over stock for $60. a good value


 
   
  Thanks, I am currently using Telefunken ECC88 1960 Diamond Bottom and I really like them. Just looking for some options down the road if I decide to try something else.


----------



## dece870717

Anyone know of good tubes for the Lyr that would go well with Dance/Electronica and other fast bass punchy music? Would like something that could at least enhance the bass a good amount without having to turn the headphones quite loud to have the bass to my liking.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





dece870717 said:


> Anyone know of good tubes for the Lyr that would go well with Dance/Electronica and other fast bass punchy music? Would like something that could at least enhance the bass a good amount without having to turn the headphones quite loud to have the bass to my liking.


 
  There are others far more qualified. ..
  I'm thinking something very clean and crisp.
  Not a Mullard and not an Orange Globe.  Perhaps a Bugle Boy.
  My Amprex USA's have plenty of bass.....  I'll queue up something near your genre.
   
  My suspicions are Telefunken, but I've never listened to them.
  Either that or a 100% SS amp.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





dece870717 said:


> Anyone know of good tubes for the Lyr that would go well with Dance/Electronica and other fast bass punchy music? Would like something that could at least enhance the bass a good amount without having to turn the headphones quite loud to have the bass to my liking.


 
  I played The Police Synchronicity.
   
  The tube are doing a great job with the fast continuous percussion. 
  It's all there the deep base as well as symbols.
   
  Keep in mind these are expensive tubes.
  I have some Bugle Boys I can roll in if you like.  They're about $60 a pair.
   
  So far, I only have Amprex.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> OK, you got me, price is right. Just ordered a pair of AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1969 DIMPLE GETTER
> Been without my Lyr for a couple of weeks as it's in the shop getting the relay installed. I've been running with stock GE 's and have been pretty happy with them. Also have the Amperex PQ A-Frames, some Matsu and Mullard E88CC/6922. Should keep me happy for a while!


 
  I'd be interested to learn how the orange globes sound compared to the Mullards.


----------



## MickeyVee

Well MrScary.. seems like all of the good stuff is either gone or way out of my price range.  I was following this thread before I got my Lyr, latched onto some Lorenz and in my naivete, ended up selling them to fund my Bifrost. Anyway, this list was published a while back in this thread and has pretty much been one of my references. Not sure who wrote it but would like to give credit where credit is due.
   *Quote:*
   
_Honestly, I don't recommend the stock JJ E88CC tubes that Schiit offers; on the other hand, the stock GE 6BZ7 tubes are pretty good for their price IMO. However, you can get a much better performance out of your Lyr with proper tube rolling. If you're looking for some top-tier tubes, expect to spend at least around $150~200, possibly higher. Although people have different musical tastes and the results may vary depending on your audio chain, here are some tips:_
   
_1. Look for old, vintage tubes (preferably those made in the 5~60's) made by companies like Amperex, Siemens (also known as Siemens & Halske), or Lorenz (#1). These are arguably the most sought-after tubes in this forum. Each company's line of tubes has its unique sound signature, but I don't think you can go wrong with most of them._
   
_2. Look for E88CC(=6922), E188CC(=7308), or CCa tubes from companies I mentioned above. E88CC are generally superior to ECC88(=6DJ8) tubes, and CCa are actually E88CC tubes that have been hand-picked among them to be of higher quality. E188CC is a superior version of E88CC and thus have a slightly different design, although some claim that certain E88CC and especially CCa rivals them in sonic quality. YMMV._
   
_3. PCC88 tubes aren't recommened by Schiit because they use a different voltage (7V) compared to the other tubes (6V - Lyr's default voltage setting), but since Lyr auto-biases voltage, I haven't heard of anyone, including myself, have technical issues while using PCC88's. I haven't heard of PCC88 tubes made by Amperex or Siemens, but Lorenz PCC88 are well-known throughout this community as one of the best tubes out there for Lyr. Of course they have to be genuine, Germany-made tubes; not SEL rebranded ones._
   
_4. If you're looking for Amperex tubes, make sure they were made in either USA or Holland. The best kinds of Amperex tubes have a "PQ (stands for premium quality)" logo in white color. These are called Amperex PQ White Labels, and are generally considered to be one of the best tubes out there. Holland tubes are rarer than American ones and therefore are of higher price, but honestly there isn't much difference between the two - both are very good. There is also something called a getter: while I can't say whether getters affect sound quality, D-shaped getters are somewhat more expensive than O-shaped or halo getters because they are older and rarer._
   
_Some rare Amperex tubes have "pinched waists" instead of a typical, straight waist. These are manufacturing flaws, but some people claim that the pinched waist shape of these tubes make them sound better, so these "flawed" ones are actually more expensive than regular ones._
   
_5. If you're looking for Siemens tubes, which should be made in Germany, try to look for tubes with "Gray Shields" instead of silver/chrome shields or no shield. Gray shields are the best of them - obviously having a shield is better than no shield, and the reason why gray shields are superior to silver(=chrome) ones is that they use some quality rare earth minerals - which makes their surface color gray compared to bare metallic shields. The same rule applies to Lorenz tubes._
   
_6. As for Lorenz tubes, definitely look for #1 tubes - there is no comparison between #1 and #2. Gray Shields are preferable, as well as having 3-mica (or trimica) instead of 2-mica._
   
_And here are a few examples of so-called 'best tubes':_
_• Amperex PQ White Label 6922, D-getter, Pinched Waist   _
_• Amperex PQ White Label 7308, O-getter_
_• Siemens & Halske E188CC, Gray Shield_
_• Siemens & Halske CCa, Gray Shield_
_• Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-Mica, Gray Shield_
_• Mullard E88CC Tubes ~ $120_
_• Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8/ECC88 Holland_
   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Ohhh my you guys are stouting the Amperex Oran as good sounding tubes?... dear  they sound ok but pale in comparison to just about anything but he bottom of the barrel..
> This thread has gone to hell....
> 
> Glad I was active when we really had a consensus on what good was... god you guys need help


----------



## Lord Soth

mrscary said:


> Ohhh my you guys are stouting the Amperex Oran as good sounding tubes?... dear  they sound ok but pale in comparison to just about anything but he bottom of the barrel..
> This thread has gone to hell....
> 
> Glad I was active when we really had a consensus on what good was... god you guys need help




Yo! Mr "Skull and Bones", we should cut these newcomers some slack.

We've all been through the learning curve before.... 

Don't you remember yourself raving about the Russian tubes before? LOL

To the others, he's the "resident evil" here . 

Beneath his tough "he-man" exterior, he's actually a nice guy deep down.

Have fun tube rolling!


----------



## Iamnothim

I've just received some fantastic news.
  My wife loves my headphones (HD650) and want some for Christmas.
   
  Can you spell U-P-G-R-A-D-E  !


----------



## Iamnothim

Ok...  I'm so geeked.
   
  Bifrost (toslink) to Lyr.  Right now Amprex  Orange / USA / Bugle Boys.
   
  My max purchase would be Senn HD800's  I love the comfort factor.
   
  What's a good fit with my kit?
  Not that I don't like the 650's
   
  Aldeze  ?
  HiFiman  ?
  Beyer ?


----------



## dece870717

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I played The Police Synchronicity.
> 
> The tube are doing a great job with the fast continuous percussion.
> It's all there the deep base as well as symbols.
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the input, I have a few pairs of tubes and they all have something different to offer but none seem to be giving me the kind of bass I'm looking for. I have pairs of...
   
  Electro Harmonix 6922EH
   
  Telefunken E288CC costed me $250, offer awesome sound clarity but the bass is not good enough for my music, would work much better with other genres.
   
  OTK 6N1P
   
  General Electric 6BZ7
   
  Out of the 4 pairs the OTK 6N1P seem to give me the closest bass I want, 6922EH is not as good in that respect but better clarity in overall sound. The 6922EH so far are the best for what I listen to, but I switch over to the E288CC when listening to my 2.1 pc speakers because I enjoy the added sound clarity and the subwoofer on these can give more than bass.  If I could just find that pair that could give me the clarity and bass I want, I'd get rid of all these other pairs in a heart beat. Just sick of trying to spend more and more money to try and see if maybe this pair could be it.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





dece870717 said:


> Thanks for the input, I have a few pairs of tubes and they all have something different to offer but none seem to be giving me the kind of bass I'm looking for. I have pairs of...
> 
> Electro Harmonix 6922EH
> 
> ...


 
  Honestly.  
  I think you need to go Solid State.
  That is the fit for your music.
  Liquidating your tubes might get you close.
   
  You should get some other opinions.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Ok...  I'm so geeked.
> 
> Bifrost (toslink) to Lyr.  Right now Amprex  Orange / USA / Bugle Boys.
> 
> ...


 
  I had the HD800s for a while and they are very comfortable headphones. But, bass lean and treble/soundstage accentuated (all the time). To me, the Audeze LCD2 is a better sound, although not as comfortable to wear for hours on end.  I also had some Beyer DT880 600 Ohm for a while and the treble was too harsh and metallic sounding for my liking.


----------



## dece870717

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Ok...  I'm so geeked.
> 
> Bifrost (toslink) to Lyr.  Right now Amprex  Orange / USA / Bugle Boys.
> 
> ...


 
  I have the HiFiman HE-500 and love them, used to have the HD650's but liking the HE-500's more. I'd love to sell the HE-500 and get some HE-6 but then I'd also have to sell the Lyr and go for another more powerful and more expensive amplifier. :-\


----------



## dece870717

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Honestly.
> I think you need to go Solid State.
> That is the fit for your music.
> Liquidating your tubes might get you close.
> ...


 
  Interesting, I will definitely start looking into all of it a lot more, thanks again!


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





dece870717 said:


> Thanks for the input, I have a few pairs of tubes and they all have something different to offer but none seem to be giving me the kind of bass I'm looking for. I have pairs of...
> 
> Electro Harmonix 6922EH
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Honestly.
> I think you need to go Solid State.
> That is the fit for your music.
> Liquidating your tubes might get you close.
> ...


 
   
  Bass can depend on your headphones and amp synergy.  I'm currently running Iamnothim's Amperex Orange Globe's in my Lyr and feel no lack of bass with the Audeze LCD2s. It's certainly authoratative when playing bass heavy music.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I had the HD800s for a while and they are very comfortable headphones. But, bass lean and treble/soundstage accentuated (all the time). To me, the Audeze LCD2 is a better sound, although not as comfortable to wear for hours on end.  I also had some Beyer DT880 600 Ohm for a while and the treble was too harsh and metallic sounding for my liking.


 
  That's great info.
  I have wanted to try some planers for the longest time.
  The Audeze and HiFiman fit the bill but I think comfort is about 40% factor.
  Those look bulky but I've heard the sound is sweet.
   
  I wanted to know how the pairing of tubes and planars worked out.


----------



## Iamnothim

Anyone have Beyer T1's ?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> That's great info.
> I have wanted to try some planers for the longest time.
> The Audeze and HiFiman fit the bill but I think comfort is about 40% factor.
> Those look bulky but I've heard the sound is sweet.
> ...


 
  I think they pair just beautifully. 
   
  Jason at Schiit does too (about the Lyr):
   
  "*No, seriously, why do you need a 6 watt headphone amp?*
Because you want unbelievable dynamics and openness, the kind that only near-infinite headroom can provide. Or you have orthodynamic headphones like those from HiFiMan and Audeze. Most orthos need a ton of power.:
   
   
  from-
  http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/about-lyr/


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I think they pair just beautifully.
> 
> Jason at Schiit does too (about the Lyr):
> 
> ...


 
  Cool.
  I seem to recall now that's why I liked Lyr.  They had the power to drive planers.


----------



## Mediahound

Right now I'm playing this, lossless on my LCD2's and Lyr:
   





   
  The bass, guitar and soundstage are *very* involving.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I'd be interested to learn how the orange globes sound compared to the Mullards.


 
  Did you consider HiFiMan?
  If so what pushed you to Audeze?


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Ohhh my you guys are stouting the Amperex Oran as good sounding tubes?... dear  they sound ok but pale in comparison to just about anything but he bottom of the barrel..
> This thread has gone to hell....
> 
> Glad I was active when we really had a consensus on what good was... god you guys need help


 
   
  Such an obnoxious post. Ever considered the myriad of components combining to achieve different signatures? And the individual preferences that affect how these tubes are perceived? What about budget?
   
  This isn't the first time you've ridiculed people for venturing beyond the tubes you've hyped. Perhaps you're the one that needs help.


----------



## 333jeffery

Iamnothim, the HE500's pair very well with the Lyr, and sound better than the HD600/650's. But, they are fairly heavy headphones. You should try a pair on before you decide.
   
  Dece will have to go with a solid-state amp like the Mjolnir to get maximum bass, considering that the E288CC's were not enough for his music. The Mjolnir has bass in spades.
   
   
  And, folks looking for "cheap" tubes that sound darned good really should try the Telefunken PCC85's. They are plentiful, atleast for now...


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Ok...  I'm so geeked.
> 
> Bifrost (toslink) to Lyr.  Right now Amprex  Orange / USA / Bugle Boys.
> 
> ...


 
   
  What aspects of the HD650 do you like? What aspects would you like improved?
   
  To me, the LCD-2 is a side-grade from the venerable HD650. Yes, technically it's better, but I still find the HD650 more engaging. The HD800 on the other hand, is not only technically superior, but can also be just as involving when in full flight. The Bifrost/Lyr combo with Bugles in place will give you a very smooth and musical presentation, without stifling the HD800's strengths (not as much as other tubes anyway). These tubes have never been praised in this thread, but I can't recall anyone else spending time with the Schiit chain and the HD800 at the end. It took the HD800 to reveal how good the Bugles are (preferred them to the Stuttgarts with the flagship Senn).


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Such an obnoxious post. Ever considered the myriad of components combining to achieve different signatures? And the individual preferences that affect how these tubes are perceived? What about budget?
> 
> This isn't the first time you've ridiculed people for venturing beyond the tubes you've hyped. Perhaps you're the one that needs help.


 
  That's just the way Scary is-he means no harm,or disrespect
  Mr.Scary is probably one of the most knowleable senior members on the forum,and he really knows his tubes..
  I have bought some of my finest tubes from him,at prices ,that most people would consider a gift.
   
  His delivery,well,can be a little direct-that's all..


----------



## sensui123

I've found myself exclusively listening to the Lyr with the HE-500 and sometimes the Denon ADH7000.....all my other headphones (HD800, HD650, HE-6, LCD-3) I listen to with Mjolnir.....well except the HD650 I've moved to work with an O2 amp......They synergy between the Lyr and HE-500 is the best in my opinion out of these headphones.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Did you consider HiFiMan?
> If so what pushed you to Audeze?


 
  I didn't because I hear the bass is not as good.


----------



## DamageInc77

I got both the Schiit Lyr and the Audeze LCD-2 and they are a very good combo. I don't really feel that I am missing anything when using that combo.


----------



## MattTCG

+1


----------



## Iamnothim

sensui123 said:


> I've found myself exclusively listening to the Lyr with the HE-500 and sometimes the Denon ADH7000.....all my other headphones (HD800, HD650, HE-6, LCD-3) I listen to with Mjolnir.....well except the HD650 I've moved to work with an O2 amp......They synergy between the Lyr and HE-500 is the best in my opinion out of these headphones.




Good Info. Thanks. 

Btw. Have you considered 12 step program or headphone intervention ?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Yo! Mr "Skull and Bones", we should cut these newcomers some slack.
> We've all been through the learning curve before....
> Don't you remember yourself raving about the Russian tubes before? LOL
> To the others, he's the "resident evil" here .
> ...


 
  Why ya trying to ruin this man's reputation.
   
  Scary is big and bad..and SCARY!!!!


----------



## Iamnothim

It's hard to find retailers for these cans with the proliferation of online selling. Which is great for the wallet. 
But I found some good fortune on the Audeze front. 

The Audeze factory is 20 miles from my home. I am going to email them to see if I can drop by for a listen. 
That's a lot better than a 15% restock fee.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> It's hard to find retailers for these cans with the proliferation of online selling. Which is great for the wallet.
> But I found some good fortune on the Audeze front.
> The Audeze factory is 20 miles from my home. I am going to email them to see if I can drop by for a listen.
> 
> ...


 
  Cool! Let us know how it goes. It would be cool if they give you a factory tour or something too.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> It's hard to find retailers for these cans with the proliferation of online selling. Which is great for the wallet.
> But I found some good fortune on the Audeze front.
> The Audeze factory is 20 miles from my home. I am going to email them to see if I can drop by for a listen.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wow...you're lucky. I live in Atlanta and there's really no place to go to audition any headphones.


----------



## Iamnothim

mediahound said:


> Cool! Let us know how it goes. It would be cool if they give you a factory tour or something too.




Just sent an email asking for an invite. 

Since they sell direct I can't imagine them saying no.


----------



## Iamnothim

mrscary said:


> Ohhh my you guys are stouting the Amperex Oran as good sounding tubes?... dear  they sound ok but pale in comparison to just about anything but he bottom of the barrel..
> This thread has gone to hell....
> 
> Glad I was active when we really had a consensus on what good was... god you guys need help




It's the Good Humor Man. 
I'd like a Klondike bar please.


----------



## Iamnothim

matttcg said:


> Wow...you're lucky. I live in Atlanta and there's really no place to go to audition any headphones. :mad:




They better have a Lay-Z-Boy and some PBR's


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

```

```
Man this thread blew up since I last checked

dece870717 for bass, I'm still using RCA clear top or black plate 6fq7/6cg7. None of my other pairs have the bass extension.

iam, I think you are headed in the right direction I love my lcd2 with the lyr, especially if you enjoy the hd650. Wish my wife had any sort of interest in the hobby, she could take the lcd3 and force me to get an 009 

Scary, I have to kinda cringe when people are promoting the orange globes but as long as people are having fun then that's cool. Also there seems to be a consensus that they work well with the 650s, which I haven't tried them with.


----------



## Iamnothim

Trying tube extenders.


----------



## Mediahound

iamnothim said:


> Trying tube extenders.




How do you get them out?


----------



## Iamnothim

mediahound said:


> How do you get them out?


They are just like a tube. Pins on one end sockets on the other. 

The extender comes out with the tube when you pull it. Why? Because of increased leverage. Then you can easily remove the tube from the extender without damaging the pins. 
Reverse the process to insert the new tube. 
You will lose any advantage of a gold pin tube. That said I'd rather damage the pins on a $9 extender than a $100 tube.


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Good Info. Thanks.
> Btw. Have you considered 12 step program or headphone intervention ?


 
   
  No, seeing I just purchased the LCD-2 today as the trasportable setup with the ALO MK3 whenever black becomes available. =X
   
  I'm going to say the set I enjoy the least thus far out of all the headphones have to be the HD-800.....it's just too brutal and revealing with my amps (I believe this is why most people call them bright) and doesn't provide any sort of punchy signature down low to engage the listener.  The Hifiman and Audeze products are all extremely nice options.....just certain ones tend to have better synergy with the Mjolnir.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> They are just like a tube. Pins on one end sockets on the other.
> The extender comes out with the tube when you pull it. Why? Because of increased leverage. Then you can easily remove the tube from the extender without damaging the pins.
> Reverse the process to insert the new tube.
> You will lose any advantage of a gold pin tube. That said I'd rather damage the pins on a $9 extender than a $100 tube.


 
  Do they protect your tube pins but not the amp socket at all, right?
   
  Do they make the tubs/amp run any cooler since it places the tubes outside of the chassis?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Do they protect your tube pins but not the amp socket at all, right?
> 
> Do they make the tubs/amp run any cooler since it places the tubes outside of the chassis?


 
  Well, the amp socket is very stout ceramic.  Nothing should happen to that.
  It is much, much easier to remove a tube with the extender, but in a way I hadn't imagined.
   
  I thought the extender would stay put but the tube would be easier to grasp and rock out of the extender.
  Wrong.  The tube doesn't move when grasping it and rocking.  Only the extender rocking off the PCB tube socket.
  Due to the leverage the rocking is controlled and gentle.
   
  When you have the tube coupled to the extender in your hand it's a snap to remove the tube with very little force.  It's more pulling it straight off than rocking.
  Perhaps that's up and down is better than rocking side to side.  No matter there is significantly less strain put on the tube pins.   It's also much faster.
   
  To install the new tube I snap the extender on the tube and lower the assembly into the case and into the socket.  It's easier to guide the assembly into the Lyr
  because it's easier to grasp.
   
  Heat.  The tube certainly has more circulating air and there is less heat radiated inside the Lry.  The volume knob is significantly cooler.
  The tubes are raised 3/4" and the diameter of the extender easily fits through the tube access holes on the top of the Lyr.
   
  This setup might not work well with kids and cats and IMO does not look as nice as the stock Lyr.
   
  I purchased the extenders from Brent Jessee Recording.  He's a very well respected tube source and resource.
http://audiotubes.com/books.htm


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Do they protect your tube pins but not the amp socket at all, right?
> 
> Do they make the tubs/amp run any cooler since it places the tubes outside of the chassis?


 
  Update....
   
  I grabbed a tube, in the middle, that had been on 30 minutes and it was not at all unpleasant.  Held it 20 seconds, no problem.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> No, seeing I just purchased the LCD-2 today as the trasportable setup with the ALO MK3 whenever black becomes available. =X
> 
> I'm going to say the set I enjoy the least thus far out of all the headphones have to be the HD-800.....it's just too brutal and revealing with my amps (I believe this is why most people call them bright) and doesn't provide any sort of punchy signature down low to engage the listener.  The Hifiman and Audeze products are all extremely nice options.....just certain ones tend to have better synergy with the Mjolnir.


 
  I'm very glad you said that about the HD800.   I read another review that also said they were to clinical and hard to listen too.  Albeit their legendary accuracy.  He commented probably good for use in a studio.
   
  If Audeze should happen to return my email, I might go listen to them.....  Lyr, Bifrost in tow.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Well, the amp socket is very stout ceramic.  Nothing should happen to that.
> It is much, much easier to remove a tube with the extender, but in a way I hadn't imagined.
> 
> I thought the extender would stay put but the tube would be easier to grasp and rock out of the extender.
> ...


 
   
  Are the pins cryo-treated and silver-dipped for the best sound quality? Haha.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Are the pins cryo-treated and silver-dipped for the best sound quality? Haha.


 
  You can save $0.50 is you order them without that option.
   
  Hey.... were talking state of the art Bakelite.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Update....
> 
> I grabbed a tube, in the middle, that had been on 30 minutes and it was not at all unpleasant.  Held it 20 seconds, no problem.


 
  Interesting. I wonder if the tubes will last longer since they seem to run cooler with extenders? Or am I just wishful thinking?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Interesting. I wonder if the tubes will last longer since they seem to run cooler with extenders? Or am I just wishful thinking?


 
  It's not a stretch to think that would be so.


----------



## Heathen999

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> They better have a Lay-Z-Boy and some PBR's


 
   
  AHHHHHHH, another PBR fan!!!!!!!


----------



## Iamnothim

heathen999 said:


> AHHHHHHH, another PBR fan!!!!!!!




I should start a thread in music science reporting the results of double blind ABX testing between a $500 Bordeaux and PBR. After 25 iteration people can't tell the difference, so you might as well drink PBR.


----------



## Iamnothim

It has been 24 hours and I have not received a reply from my enquiry to Audeze. 

Then again, sent an emai to Schiit 4 days ago asking which Lyr tube slot was left and which was right. Haven't received a reply from them either. Does anyone know the answer?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> It has been 24 hours and I have not received a reply from my enquiry to Audeze.
> Then again, sent an emai to Schiit 4 days ago asking which Lyr tube slot was left and which was right. Haven't received a reply from them either. Does anyone know the answer?


 
  Audeze takes their time getting back to you. 2-3 days normally.
  Schiit is always responsive, unless there's backorders or something. And of course, sometimes EMails get lost in the shuffle.
   
  Top is right and bottom is left.


----------



## Iamnothim

paradoxper said:


> Audeze takes their time getting back to you. 2-3 days normally.
> Schiit is always responsive, unless there's backorders or something. And of course, sometimes EMails get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> Top is right and bottom is left.




Excellent. Thanks for the answer.
I was surprised with Schiit because they were very responsive in the past. 

I'll cool my jets wit Audeze.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Then again, sent an emai to Schiit 4 days ago asking which Lyr tube slot was left and which was right. Haven't received a reply from them either. Does anyone know the answer?


 
   
  Easy way to find out. Pull one tube, then play something.


----------



## 333jeffery

For those that have them, what markings do the Lorenz Stuttgart's have on them? How do you ID them? Thanks.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> For those that have them, what markings do the Lorenz Stuttgart's have on them? How do you ID them? Thanks.


 
  Some don't have any anymore. Looking at the getter's is a good way at identifying 2-mica from 3-mica or fakes all together.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

333jeffery said:


> For those that have them, what markings do the Lorenz Stuttgart's have on them? How do you ID them? Thanks.



The print will be an oval with the word Lorenz inside of it, I've seen white,black,and brown print. Then the type, ecc88,pcc88,cca... will be centered and printed under the oval logo. However some were not printed with a label, like my fused getter 2mica pair or like para said they have just rubbed off. Makes it kind of tricky


This might help too
http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6DJ8/?g2_page=4


----------



## 333jeffery

^Thanks, that's what I was looking for.


----------



## MattTCG

Just wanted to share that I ordered a pair of socket savers from tubemonger and they are wonderful!! Tubes are SOOO much easier to roll and...the lyr doesn't get nearly as warm. Great purchase.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Just wanted to share that I ordered a pair of socket savers from tubemonger and they are wonderful!! Tubes are SOOO much easier to roll and...the lyr doesn't get nearly as warm. Great purchase.


 
  They look nice.  I must have the cheap Chinese version.


----------



## Iamnothim

.Audeze denied my request to drive over and listen to their headphones
   
  I had to call.  After 3 days they never replied to my email


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Audeze denied my request to drive over and listen to their headphones


 
   
  Wow.....that was unexpected......what was their reasoning?  Do they have another local distributor that's willing to let you audition?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> Wow.....that was unexpected......what was their reasoning?  Do they have another local distributor that's willing to let you audition?


 
  They said it was insurance.  I think that's weak.  I'm not visiting a steel mill and I'm certain they at least have a break room.
   
  I have my choice of an hour south or an hour and a half north to LA.
   
  edit:
  I'm going to make the purchase from AudioAdvisor, etc.  $80 to the state ain't gonna happen.
  It's not fair for me to take up a merchant's time when I won't be purchasing.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ That's a shame. At least you have a company like that within driving distance. Unfortunately for you, all that means is tax.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> .Audeze denied my request to drive over and listen to their headphones
> 
> I had to call.  After 3 days they never replied to my email


 
   
  Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> Wow.....that was unexpected......what was their reasoning?  Do they have another local distributor that's willing to let you audition?


 
   
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> They said it was insurance.  I think that's weak.  I'm not visiting a steel mill and I'm certain they at least have a break room.
> 
> I have my choice of an hour south or an hour and a half north to LA.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ That's a shame. At least you have a company like that within driving distance. Unfortunately for you, all that means is tax.


 
   
  They probably don't have a showroom or anything. I can understand. And it IS a liability to have non-employees in the factory if they don't have insurance for that. 
   
  Did they refer to an authorized dealer in your area? 
   
  Or, just buy them without auditioning, I don't think you will be disappointed!


----------



## sensui123

If you're purchasing a pair, I'd recommend Headroom.....I've bought the HE500, HE-6, LCD-2, LCD-3, and HD800 from them, they'e been nothing but friendly and helpful and is willing to match any deals going around.  And best of all for me....tax free!
   
  Shame about Audeze though, you could of asked to see if there's a disclaimer/release form to sign before auditioning.....being a business owner, I do somewhat understand the insurance aspects no matter how trivial....you just don't know what kind of people are out there these days.


----------



## Iamnothim

Exactly.
   
  For me there are a couple of things here.  1) I haven't received a reply to emails sent on Monday.   Sales emails, not Support emails.
  2) When I called in I asked for sales.  The person that answered the phone was.. what do you want I can help you.  OK it's a small company maybe the person that answers the phone handles sales.  I don't know.   It was clumsy dialog where I wasn't asked what product etc.   The person didn't try to "sell me."   Just clear the call.  3) If you buy it from the "factory" online you can return it within 30 days....... if you pay a 15% restock fee.
   
  Audeze benefits wherever I may buy them.  Online or otherwise.   They gave me 2 dealers one an hour away one 1.5 hours away in Los Angeles.  They were visit by appt.  It would not be fair to take up their time and purchase them elsewhere.
   
  Since Audeze charges a 15% return fee, maybe they sell factory refurbs.
   
  Thanks for the referral to Headroom.
  I will look them up


----------



## Mediahound

I bought mine from  http://www.soundearphones.com
   
  Free overnight shipping, and zero restocking fee on returns.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I bought mine from  http://www.soundearphones.com
> 
> Free overnight shipping, and zero restocking fee on returns.


 
  The free overnight shipping and "normal" return policy is great.
  I've been reading all the reviews HE-LE6, HD800, Beyer T1 and these review very well.
  It also sounds like the comfort factor is better than anything but the HD-800
   
  The LCD2's are what I want.


----------



## Iamnothim

I received a reply.....  Since I torched them. it's only right that I post their reply.   I understand...
   
   
 [size=medium] "I apologize for the delayed response. We usually dont get these type of requests, so it put our support folks in a fix. [/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] We manufacture and assemble the headphones in fountain valley facility. This is not setup at the moment for retail. Moreover we dont have the necessary permits from the city and insurance to operate retail at this location. This is why we cannot accomodate potential customers from visiting/listening[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] Cable Company one of our dealers has a program where you can get an LCD2/3 and listen to it in your home and then make a decision on it. If you want, we can put you in touch with them, let us know.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] thanks[/size]
 [size=medium] Sankar"[/size]


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> They said it was insurance.  I think that's weak.  I'm not visiting a steel mill and I'm certain they at least have a break room.
> 
> I have my choice of an hour south or an hour and a half north to LA.
> 
> ...


 
  That is pathetic. Hopefully this won't detract you from gettin' a pair, they're wonderful cans.


----------



## thisthingz

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Anyone have Beyer T1's ?


 
  I do. what's your question?
   
  I also have HE-6's and am using mullard cv2492's


----------



## Iamnothim

thisthingz said:


> I do. what's your question?
> 
> I also have HE-6's and am using mullard cv2492's



Thanks for the reply.
Since, I've kept steady with the LCD2's
Since I've listened to none of them, (T1, HE-6, HD800), it's pretty much published reviews and posts.

Mostly on the HD800, not so much the HE-6 or T1.

All my tubes are Amprex as I've liked what I hear with my Lyr and HD650's
I read that the HE-6 like a speaker amp. For a minute I considered a Jolida SJ302a that's collecting dust.... But that would open up
Rolling 8 tubes.... EL34 , 12AX7 and 12AX7. I'm not going there.

Between the published reviews touting the LCD2 value and performance and their number one rand on Head-Fi. It seems like the safe choice.
But I'm all ears....


----------



## thisthingz

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> Since, I've kept steady with the LCD2's
> Since I've listened to none of them, (T1, HE-6, HD800), it's pretty much published reviews and posts.
> Mostly on the HD800, not so much the HE-6 or T1.
> ...


 
   
  For reference, I'll sum my very limited experience with LCD's

 I was able to listen to the LCD2/LCD3/HD800 for about five minutes each, about 5 months ago on some amp, that I think was somewhat fancy but wasn't able to get the name of at the time.
 From that time, I found that the LCD2 was much darker/thicker than the HD series, and the LCD3 was a less dark and thick, but still very smooth and "natural" sounding. (this is just for comparison for my impressions). The HD800 was much cleaner, a lot less bass, and more clarity/detail than LCD2 (a lot more) and LCD 3 (a bit more)
   
  Now, within the HD800(the least time)/T1/HE-6 which I have gotten the chance to hear on the Lyr/Bifrost, I find in terms of
   
  Overall Warmth HE-6>T1~HD800
 Treble: HD800 (sparkly, clean ) >HE-6 ('easier' on the ears, but not as clean) ~T1(slightly not as clean as HD800, but still prominent)
 Mids: HD800(cleaner, more resolution but still full)~HE6 (smoother, more liquidy, but loses some resolution) >>T1 (has good resolution, but sounds a little hollow)  (I think T1's have significantly worse mids)
 Bass: HE6>T1>>HD800
 Soundstage: HD800>T1>HE-6
 Detail/Clarity: HD800>T1 >> HE-6 (improvement from the T1 is significantly more than from the T1 to the HD800)
   
  To sum them up,
   
  HE-6 is smooth, It has that same "natural" as my impression of the LCD-2, but not thick at all. As a result, a lot less bassy
 T1- high resolution headphones with decent bass. (nothing close to the levels of LCD-2/3 though)
  HD800 - high resolution/detail headphones with a fuller mid and more sparkly treble
   
  Overall, the HE-6 is my favorite on the lyr/bifrost. I haven't gotten the chance to hear any of the other three on other amps, but it seems like the lyr can drive the HE-6's adequately. My volume knob rarely gets above half if that means anything. 
   
  compared to the LCD-2/3, I didn't feel that the LCD2 was in the same overall quality headphone as the HD800's were. The LCD-3's seemed like in the same league as the HD800's, just a different sound signature. So including my impression from a while ago, In overall quality I feel that the HD800's, LCD-3, HE-6's are in the same league. The t1's are notably lower, and I think the LCD-2's would fall here as well.
   
  let me know if you have a specific question.. thats kind of a summary.
   
  edit: sorry for the derailment of the thread... I just realized =/ but to slightly put it back on track. Switching from the stock 6n1p tubes to the mullard cv2492's made a HUGE difference. More bass, smoother mids, a little better soundstage and clarity... I didn't really believe that tubes could make such a difference, but then after hearing it...


----------



## sensui123

The Lyr may drive the HE-6 but does not define nearly its potential.  It's a night and day headphone when hooked up to a Mjolnir IMO in terms of the low end and the clarity/sound stage it opens.  My LCD-2 is on the way (going to be used for a transportable rig) so I can't comment on that, but from what I've heard on the LCD-3 and how people describe the differences, I think you'll be very happy with the LCD-2 in combination with the Lyr.  However, I want to throw a wrench in there.....and that's the HE-500 pairing with the Lyr.  IMO this combination really has great synergy and it's my go to headphone with the Lyr out of my assortment.  The remaining I prefer on the Mjolnir most the times unless I'm listening to some vocals that I prefer the "tube" sounds with.....the HD800 these days I don't prefer all that much.....as I mentioned before, too brutal and revealing and fatigues the listener without engaging them with the warmth/low end LCD-3/HE-500/HE-6 does.  I bet these HD800 would work great in a studio when you're trying to be analytical all day....but it doesn't give me much enjoyment.  IMO Iamnothim you should really be looking at the HE-500 or the LCD-2 for the Lyr.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> The Lyr may drive the HE-6 but does not define nearly its potential.  It's a night and day headphone when hooked up to a Mjolnir IMO in terms of the low end and the clarity/sound stage it opens.  My LCD-2 is on the way (going to be used for a transportable rig) so I can't comment on that, but from what I've heard on the LCD-3 and how people describe the differences, I think you'll be very happy with the LCD-2 in combination with the Lyr.  However, I want to throw a wrench in there.....and that's the HE-500 pairing with the Lyr.  IMO this combination really has great synergy and it's my go to headphone with the Lyr out of my assortment.  The remaining I prefer on the Mjolnir most the times unless I'm listening to some vocals that I prefer the "tube" sounds with.....the HD800 these days I don't prefer all that much.....as I mentioned before, too brutal and revealing and fatigues the listener without engaging them with the warmth/low end LCD-3/HE-500/HE-6 does.  I bet these HD800 would work great in a studio when you're trying to be analytical all day....but it doesn't give me much enjoyment.  IMO Iamnothim you should really be looking at the HE-500 or the LCD-2 for the Lyr.


 
   
  ^^ This is good advice +1


----------



## DamageInc77

I'll just state again,
   
  I have the LCD-2 with the Lyr and the same Amperex Tubes you have. You will not regret going for the LCD-2.
   
  I haven't.


----------



## Iamnothim

Everybody,
Thanks for taking the time to provided me with your opinions and for diverting the tube thread with headphone brand discourse.
It really helped to cement my selection of the LCD2's.

I will try to stay on topic.....


----------



## thisthingz

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> The Lyr may drive the HE-6 but does not define nearly its potential.  It's a night and day headphone when hooked up to a Mjolnir IMO in terms of the low end and the clarity/sound stage it opens.  My LCD-2 is on the way (going to be used for a transportable rig) so I can't comment on that, but from what I've heard on the LCD-3 and how people describe the differences, I think you'll be very happy with the LCD-2 in combination with the Lyr.  However, I want to throw a wrench in there.....and that's the HE-500 pairing with the Lyr.  IMO this combination really has great synergy and it's my go to headphone with the Lyr out of my assortment.  The remaining I prefer on the Mjolnir most the times unless I'm listening to some vocals that I prefer the "tube" sounds with.....the HD800 these days I don't prefer all that much.....as I mentioned before, too brutal and revealing and fatigues the listener without engaging them with the warmth/low end LCD-3/HE-500/HE-6 does.  I bet these HD800 would work great in a studio when you're trying to be analytical all day....but it doesn't give me much enjoyment.  IMO Iamnothim you should really be looking at the HE-500 or the LCD-2 for the Lyr.


 
  Would you say that the HE-500 sounds better than the HE-6 on the Lyr?


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





thisthingz said:


> Would you say that the HE-500 sounds better than the HE-6 on the Lyr?


 
   
  Interesting question, I haven't A B'ed them on the Lyr so I'd have to test to find out.  To tell the truth, the HE-6 has never been back to the Lyr ever since I listened to it for 10 minutes on a couple songs and hooked it up afterwards to a Mjolnir for the same songs....the difference in low end punch, details/clarity, and stage is just night and day IMO.....and I'm chalking this to the power the HE-6 really needs.  If I have the time to do so, I'll try to A/B them on the Lyr and report back....but I really enjoy the HE-500 with the Lyr for all genres, it's really a great set of cans for the $$.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> Interesting question, I haven't A B'ed them on the Lyr so I'd have to test to find out.  To tell the truth, the HE-6 has never been back to the Lyr ever since I listened to it for 10 minutes on a couple songs and hooked it up afterwards to a Mjolnir for the same songs....the difference in low end punch, details/clarity, and stage is just night and day IMO.....and I'm chalking this to the power the HE-6 really needs.  If I have the time to do so, I'll try to A/B them on the Lyr and report back....but I really enjoy the HE-500 with the Lyr for all genres, it's really a great set of cans for the $$.


 
  Oh no... There goes the thread....  I just read your post and did a price check on aisle 9.
  I thought the HE 500's were the same price as the LCD2's   Fact they're $300 cheaper... dang  money again.
  Do you have an opinion on HE-500 v LCD-2's on the Lyr.....  with nice tubes?
  Comfort is a big factor with me.


----------



## Mediahound

So I got these socket extenders in the mail today; they were only like $6.00 shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/290810228403?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  I figured I didn't need to spend $50. or whatever on vibration reduction ones from Tube Monger. 
   
  I do dig the look and ease of access. The Lyr chassis does seem to run a bit cooler too:


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> So I got these socket extenders in the mail today; they were only like $6.00 shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/290810228403?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> I figured I didn't need to spend $50. or whatever on vibration reduction ones from Tube Monger.
> 
> I do dig the look and ease of access. The Lyr chassis does seem to run a bit cooler too:


 
  I just rolled back to my Bugle Boys 30 minutes ago and marveled what a great time saver they were.
   
  btw:  Just ordered my Audeze LCD2's    Stoked.


----------



## MattTCG

I bought the B stock from tubemonger and spent $30 and I'm happy. I like how smooth they slide in and subsequently out from the tubes. Certainly worth the money!!


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I bought the B stock from tubemonger and spent $30 and I'm happy. I like how smooth they slide in and subsequently out from the tubes. Certainly worth the money!!


 
  Heya Matt, did you ever get the other set of Green Hornets?


----------



## MattTCG

Oh heck yeah!! Listening to them right now brother. They are very very nice with the hd650 and maybe even a breath better with the maddogs. I missed out on the Amperex Orange Globes even though I'd put in a bid on them. So I sent the guy an email an he offered me an even nicer pair of Orange Globes like "new" 1968 which happens to be my lucky year. He's says that these test off the charts, so I'm super stoked to give these a try.


----------



## Iamnothim

*This review will be very weak due to my inexperience and ability to articulate sound.*
 *Schiit Lyr, Schiit Bifrost, Sennheizer HD650, stock cable.*
  
 *Stock:*
 *GE 6BZ7*
 *Duration: 20 hours*
  
 *1st Valve:*
 *AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1969 DIMPLE GETTER*
 *$60*
 *Duration: 32 hours*
  
 *2nd Valve:*
 *AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1962 O GETTER$60*
 *Duration: 20 hours*
  
 *3rd Valve:*
 *$260*
 *AMPEREX USN-CEP 6922 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1965*
 *Duration: 70 hours*
  
 *Total hours on HD650:  142 hours*
  
 *As a total noob I unboxed my new gear, started listening and I was very happy.  Sounded fine, I had nothing to compare it to.  I had been aware of the practice of tube rolling for years, so I set about getting new valves (trying to sound like I know something) straight away.  The Orange Globes.*
  
 *The difference was astounding.  It sounded like the musicality doubled.  A noticeably better sound stage.  Very smooth, beautiful.   I ordered "Bugle Boys" because the name sounded cool.*
  
 *The BB's were a disappointment.  I felt they were narrow and not nearly as mellow.  Note: the OG's had a very defined mellow.  But the BB's were harder to listen to.  Another Flier posted that they pair up well with HD800's   I immediately upped the ante and ordered the  Amprex USA's*
  
 *In between I sent the Orange Globes out on loan.  So I was only listening to the BB's when the USA's arrived.  The white label Amprex came in.  It was a similar experience going from stock to Orange.  Much more musical, much wider, a lot of definition.  70 hours pass until today.*
  
 *I decided I need to roll-back to the Bugle Boys. They started off sounding fine.  I thought they we just different, but not long after I felt like they were narrow and then difficult to listen to.*
 *I switched back to the USA's and I am presently ensconced in musical nirvana.*
  
 *I should have the OG's back soon and I promise to make a more detailed back and forth study because I found the OG's very pleasant.  At the moment, there's a reason they cost $260.  *


----------



## Mediahound

I may as well post my impressions too since I've been listening to your Orange Globes for the past week or so. I'm sending them back to you tomorrow 
   
  I run the Bifrost/Lry with the Audeze LCD2s as well as Audioengine A5+ powered speakers.
   
  I like the Orange Globes quite a bit compared with the stock GE 6BZ7. They sound a lot smoother for sure and just have a really nice detailed sound that never seems to sound grating or harsh, even at fairly high volume. They also seem well balanced across the frequency spectrum ie., they don't seem to favor the bass, mids, or highs, they are simply quite even across the frequency range.  
   
  Schiit 61NP matched pair - I also like these over the GE 6BZ7. While they don't have as wide a soundstage as the Orange Globes or the 6BZ7, they seem to excel at midrange. They have a great midrange accentuation so they are great for vocals. They do give a bit of a closed-in type of sound however and also run hotter but vocals seem pretty amazing on these. 
   
  If I was going to stick with one set for now, it would be the Orange Globes. I have yet to try any Mullards but I think that is next on my list though.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> That's just the way Scary is-he means no harm,or disrespect
> Mr.Scary is probably one of the most knowleable senior members on the forum,and he really knows his tubes..
> I have bought some of my finest tubes from him,at prices ,that most people would consider a gift.
> 
> His delivery,well,can be a little direct-that's all..


 
  There are a few folks like that who hover in the background... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Some less..."vocally charming" than others...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> There are a few folks like that who hover in the background...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hi HK,
   
  Good to see your post..
  Yeah,gotta watch out for those ....HOVERS !!--They can be dangerous


----------



## paradoxper

^^^^^^^ Bunch of sissy-boy lala nice guys!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> There are a few folks like that who hover in the background...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  So...where is the Oracle of all things Valve?
  His minions are clamoring. (I'm minion #7785)
  He's like Puxatony Phil


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> So...where is the Oracle of all things Valve?
> His minions are clamoring. (I'm minion #7785)
> He's like Puxatony Phil


 
  Or how about the ominous Misterrogers. A real sinister Wizard!


----------



## Fearless1

After spending a good bit of cash chasing the perfect tubes to my ears,  I  found an absolutely phenomenal sounding e188cc tube in the La Raidiotechnique. By far the best sounding tube I have yet to use in the Lyr. They are a bit hard to find, but if you see them for sale anywhere I can not recommend them high enough!
   
  I have tried a good bit of tubes with the Lyr:
   

   
   
  Here are the LA Raidotechniques:


----------



## paradoxper

Nice casing for the tubes. Which of your top tubes do you compare those LA's against?


----------



## MattTCG

I picked up these yesterday for a good price. Hoping for big things. I guess I'll sometime next week.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-SWEET-TONE-SOUND-0-/221163649252?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D4024991699326793406%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D221163649252%26


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Nice casing for the tubes. Which of your top tubes do you compare those LA's against?


 
   
  Pretty much all of them lol (addicting, as I am sure you of all people know). My favorites before these were Lorenz triple micas, Dario Miniwatts e188cc and  Siemens e288cc. The LA Raidotechniques is like owning the best parts of all three of those with some Telefunkin smoothness thrown in.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I picked up these yesterday for a good price. Hoping for big things. I guess I'll sometime next week.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-SWEET-TONE-SOUND-0-/221163649252?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D4024991699326793406%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D221163649252%26


 
  Mercedesman is excellent to deal with.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Pretty much all of them lol (addicting, as I am sure you of all people know). My favorites before these were Lorenz triple micas, Dario Miniwatts e188cc and  Siemens e288cc. The LA Raidotechniques is like owning the best parts of all three of those with some Telefunkin smoothness thrown in.


 
  Haha. It's always interesting hearing about the ever more expansive new tubes tried out.
  That's quite high praise. Do you mind sharing how much they ran you? If not,
  could you just PM me, I'm naturally curious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Also, get some impressions goin'!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> After spending a good bit of cash chasing the perfect tubes to my ears,  I  found an absolutely phenomenal sounding e188cc tube in the La Raidiotechnique. By far the best sounding tube I have yet to use in the Lyr. They are a bit hard to find, but if you see them for sale anywhere I can not recommend them high enough!
> 
> I have tried a good bit of tubes with the Lyr:
> 
> ...


 
  First off...  "You Da Man !!!"
   
  Now I will hoist a virtual frosty to commemorate page #300
   




   
  Cheers Rollers.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Mercedesman is excellent to deal with.


 
  +1
  I like mercedsman...  Ya gotta laugh at "sweetest sounding tubes every!"  "Never gonna find these again anywhere"   Until next week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I will ALWAYS bite on those lines.  Always.
   
  Sincerely, he's as honest as the day is long.  A great guy.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Haha. It's always interesting hearing about the ever more expansive new tubes tried out.
> That's quite high praise. Do you mind sharing how much they ran you? If not,
> could you just PM me, I'm naturally curious.
> 
> ...


 
  I won the matched set off of E-bay for 100 even. They took about 3 months to come from Spain, I almost gave up on them.  They are cryo treated (not sure if that makes a difference, have not heard the non-cryoed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  One of the reasons I find they Lyr so interesting is how responsive it is to tube rolling, and I am glad to have found the reason to stop the addiction.  They really shine with the HE-500 and the HD650s, adding really nice low end to the two along with keeping the mids in place.  Vocals are stunning, I got the chills the first time I tried them with my usual test songs. My wife, who I sometimes use as a unwilling test subject, commented that" the vocals sound like they are in the room with you". 
   
   
  One final thought on the LA Raidotechniques, absolutely dead silent!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Hi HK,
> 
> Good to see your post..
> Yeah,gotta watch out for those ....HOVERS !!--They can be dangerous


 
  Only when they hit you from behind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It has been awhile and I'm still Lyr-less (although not Schiitless), I managed pick up a couple of tubes for the day when I regain my Lyr.  I just hope they are the real deal.  You might even recognize the brand...waiting for them to get here from Slovenia.
   
  Possibly even...some of my favorite. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> So...where is the Oracle of all things Valve?
> His minions are clamoring. (I'm minion #7785)
> He's like Puxatony Phil


 
  Not sure...haven't heard from Misterrogers in a while.  Then again, I have been out of circulation for a while myself.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> I won the matched set off of E-bay for 100 even. They took about 3 months to come from Spain, I almost gave up on them.  They are cryo treated (not sure if that makes a difference, have not heard the non-cryoed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sure...you say that now... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I only spent about $3000 rollin' tubes for the Lyr.  I heard Mr. Scary spent even more...must be why he's so grumpy all the time.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - Know anybody trying to sell a Lyr for a reasonable price?


----------



## 333jeffery

HK, you're the one that bought the Lorenz's? I wondered who had outbid me on those. Though I did end up with some Amperex USN's at a good price. I guess it balances out. The PCC85 tubes make a nice entry-level tube for the Lyr, especially the Telefunkens.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> HK, you're the one that bought the Lorenz's? I wondered who had outbid me on those. Though I did end up with some Amperex USN's at a good price. I guess it balances out. The PCC85 tubes make a nice entry-level tube for the Lyr, especially the Telefunkens.


 
  Oops!  ..._sorry_.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm curious because the pictures were of the tri-mica PCC88s even though it didn't mention in the adverts.  Plus, they used identical pictures for both tubes in each set.  I'm going to hold my breath on this one (even though the seller seemed quite friendly and reduced the shipping costs by 2/3rds).  If worse comes to worse, I saved you from a bad deal.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## MattTCG

Hey guys, now that I'm starting to get more involved with tube rolling, would it be wise to purchase a can of deoxite (sp?) to clean the post with? If so, how regularly should this be done.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Hey guys, now that I'm starting to get more involved with tube rolling, would it be wise to purchase a can of deoxite (sp?) to clean the post with? If so, how regularly should this be done.


 
  Not necessary. Well, unless you're having current problems with tubes. If you choose to pickup a can, I'd say cleaning tubes more than 2-3 times a year would be overdone. 
   
  Oh, I should mention that using Isopropyl alcohol with a Q-tip would be what I'd recommend. Plus, it's much cheaper than DeoxIT!


----------



## MattTCG

Not having any issues yet but I guess that I should have some on hand. Best place to purchase?
   
  Just spray it on the post and wipe it off with a lent free cloth?


----------



## MattTCG

Where is the best place to purchase such a product from?


----------



## paradoxper

Lower's, Home Depot, Radioshack, etc. If you can't find the specific type for some reason use the Internet.
   
  A cloth might work or it might be too soft. And of course, don't use anything too abrasive.


----------



## Iamnothim

matttcg said:


> Where is the best place to purchase such a product from?




I have been purchasing my tubes from Ron "Mercedesman6572" on eBay. I saw the DeOxIt on Brent Jessee's page and thought it looked good, so I asked Ron about it. Here is Ron's reply:

"I would not use any solvents, acids, or bases, to clean the tubes. You can NEVER get all of the stuff off. It can sit at the base of the pin and glass connection.....not good. I would stick with the exacto. It only needs to be done once. "

He's talking about gently using a small Exacto blade to scrape the pins 360 around.

As a footnote, I wouldn't do this (exacto) with gold pins becaus the pins are only plated. You dont want to scrape the gold off. Further gold isn't going to corrode like alloys, so it won't need it anyway.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I have been purchasing my tubes from Ron "Mercedesman6572" on eBay. I saw the DeOxIt on Brent Jessee's page and thought it looked good, so I asked Ron about it. Here is Ron's reply:
> "I would not use any solvents, acids, or bases, to clean the tubes. You can NEVER get all of the stuff off. It can sit at the base of the pin and glass connection.....not good. I would stick with the exacto. It only needs to be done once. "
> He's talking about gently using a small Exacto blade to scrape the pins 360 around.
> As a footnote, I wouldn't do this (exacto) with gold pins becaus the pins are only plated. You dont want to scrape the gold off. Further gold isn't going to corrode like alloys, so it won't need it anyway.


 
  That is because of the potential left over residue which can reduce contact, degrade performance, etc. However you can get the lubricant free versions if you're super paranoid.


----------



## mikek200

Para,
  How can you get the lubricants free?
   
  When I had my Lry
  I bought many,many tubes from mercedsman,some were in pretty bad shape,but was always reluctant to use any kind of detoxic,some say it is a great product.,& does improve SQ.....YMMV.
   
  My advise ,proceed with caution


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Para,
> How can you get the lubricants free?
> 
> When I had my Lry
> ...


 
  Look for something that says residue free, etc. I would avoid the "inconvenience" and use Isopropyl alcohol instead.
  Then of course, you've got many other methods: exacto, eraser, brushes, etc.
   
  I think tube maintenance is overdone, personally. The tubes are most likely to die before oxidizing. Just my 2cents.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> *Look for something that says residue free*, etc. I would avoid the "inconvenience" and use Isopropyl alcohol instead.
> Then of course, you've got many other methods: exacto, eraser, brushes, etc.
> 
> I think tube maintenance is overdone, personally. The tubes are most likely to die before oxidizing. Just my 2cents.


 
  I think he was making a joke at your expense (lubricant free vs. lubricant-free)...so to speak.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I used DeOxIt Gold on the pins of tubes that looked dirty or like they had some residue on them.  I used a q-tip to clean it off and never had any problems.  However, if the pins looked fine, I didn't bother.  But whatever you do, you should never use any abrasive (or scraping) on the pins if at all possible.  The pins may be plated and/or you can introduce the possibility of new oxidation and corrosion forming.  The pins may not look great but they may already be protected (that's why metal workers allow a thin coating of rust on steel...it blocks deeper rust from forming).
   
  My standard disclaimer: This is all IMHO and YMMV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I think he was making a joke at your expense (lubricant free vs. lubricant-free)...so to speak.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Not cool, man. I got duped. I haven't had my daily dose of coffee. You all just wait.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Para,
> How can you get the lubricants free?
> 
> When I had my Lry
> ...


 
  Indeed.  The pins on the used tubes were on the ugly side.
  Ron said he used to clean all the pins but it took too long.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Look for something that says residue free, etc. I would avoid the "inconvenience" and use Isopropyl alcohol instead.
> Then of course, you've got many other methods: exacto, eraser, brushes, etc.
> 
> I think tube maintenance is overdone, personally. The tubes are most likely to die before oxidizing. Just my 2cents.


 
  We're up to 3 cents.
  agreed
   
  edit:
  I'm with HK_sends on the scraping.  That did not make sense.
  I'm not scraping no matter how soft.


----------



## Iamnothim

Need advice.

About once or twice a week, I'll get a static sound in my right ear.
Might persist for a couple minutes than goes away for days.

This happened with 2 different sets of tubes.

Just yesterday and today I heard very a prominent harmonic hum whilenothing was playing. Then I detected it with music. I can create it by gently agitating my headphone cord ... Closer to the Lry the louder.   Today it hung around and could be heard when I taped the front of the Lyr. I cycled power and it's gone.

Pretty sure the harmonics are tube sensitivities. 

I only have an APC pro power strip.  Not a conditioner.
I was looking at a Furman AC215a that does conditioning.  2 outlets 10A

Any thoughts?

EDIT:
The static just came and went again. It went static-static, then alittle rhythmic "tic tic, tic, tic" then gone
Here's the link to the Furman
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=AC-215A_PRO


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Need advice.
> About once or twice a week, I'll get a static sound in my right ear.
> Might persist for a couple minutes than goes away for days.
> This happened with 2 different sets of tubes.
> ...


 
  Did you try a different source? It could be the Bifrost. Maybe plug in some other source into the Lyr's RCA ins and see if it still does it.


----------



## HK_sends

Swap your tubes around and see if the sound changes sides.  If you tried two sets of tubes, it is less likely your tubes but it still doesn't hurt to check.  Also try Phototristan's suggestion.  If all that fails,  I would shoot Schiit an e-mail describing the issue to see if they had any suggestions before asking for an RMA.  They can check out your Lyr for you.
   
  Good luck!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - I'm sure a power conditioner couldn't hurt either.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Swap your tubes around and see if the sound changes sides.  If you tried two sets of tubes, it is less likely your tubes but it still doesn't hurt to check.  Also try Phototristan's suggestion.  If all that fails,  I would shoot Schiit an e-mail describing the issue to see if they had any suggestions before asking for an RMA.  They can check out your Lyr for you.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> ...


 
  Affirmative.
  Isolated Power...No
  Turned the Bifrost off....No
  Removed tube extenders... No
  Went back to stock tubes.... YES
   
  "dailydoseofdaly" Said it's tube microphonics present in old tubes. Including my $260 Amprex NOS USN-CPE 6922's
  It's like feedback with an instrument pickup close to a speaker.  There are "tube dampeners" that may or may not help.
   
  Further, it may not effect the music...  Not pleased that it turned up all of the sudden.


----------



## Iamnothim

I just ordered a set of Herbie's microphonic tube dampeners.
   
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm   Probably VooDoo science.
   
  I'm listening to the stock GE's.  Microphonics... nil  even when tapping on the tube.
   
  Rolling to the Amprex again.


----------



## HK_sends

I used these and never has any problems:
   
  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm
   
*[size=medium]UltraSonic Rx-9[/size]*
   
  Of course YMMV...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I just ordered a set of Herbie's microphonic tube dampeners.
> 
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm   Probably VooDoo science.
> 
> ...


 
  You beat me to the punch! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> You beat me to the punch!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Went back to the expensive Amprex.  The harmonics are there.  Strange that this is a recent development.
  It's quiet as long as you don't move.
   
  You can sure hear it when you plug in.
  I purchased a second set of the Amprex USN-CEP's   I might give those a try.
   
  EDIT:
   
  I did the "tonk, tonk, tonk" test on the tubes.  It's mostly the rear tube.  However, the noise is mostly heard in the right speaker.
  I was under the impression the front tube was the right channel.  98% right channel.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Went back to the expensive Amprex.  The harmonics are there.  Strange that this is a recent development.
> It's quiet as long as you don't move.
> 
> You can sure hear it when you plug in.
> ...


 
  IIRC, the front tube is left.
   
  I would still get Schiit to check out your amp.  Considering it just happened and considering it's affecting multiple tubes...I can't believe (although it is possible) that all your tubes have microphonic issues.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> IIRC, the front tube is left.
> 
> I would still get Schiit to check out your amp.  Considering it just happened and considering it's affecting multiple tubes...I can't believe (although it is possible) that all your tubes have microphonic issues.


 
  There are two different problems.
  1) Microphonics:   Stock tubes no.   62' Amprex yes.   I have not tested the Bugle Boys.
  2) Ocasional sound of bacon sizzling.  Only lasts a few minutes.   Amprex USN  yes   Amprex Bugle Boys   yes    Stock tubes not tested.
   
  I have not tested the Orange Globes or the second set of Amprex USN-CPE


----------



## bsn

Hi, I mostly lurk and rarely post on Head-fi, but thought I would run a question by everyone here. I’m thinking I might add another set of Lyr tubes to my collection.  Does anyone have an opinion between a set of Matsu$hita E88CC /6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling or the Ediswan CV2492 / 6922?  Which would you get, or should I pass on both?  I tend to favor good midrange and soundstage. I listen to a lot of jazz and rock.
   
  I already have:
  Matched Bugle Boys (favorite so far)
  Amperex 1968 Orange Globes
  A Matched 1960s mullards on the way for Christmas.
  The Lyr 6N1P tubes (Russian)
  The Lyr NOS GE 6BZ7 tubes (USA)
   
  Thanks!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> There are two different problems.
> 1) Microphonics:   Stock tubes no.   62' Amprex yes.   I have not tested the Bugle Boys.
> 2) Ocasional sound of bacon sizzling.  Only lasts a few minutes.   Amprex USN  yes   Amprex Bugle Boys   yes    Stock tubes not tested.
> 
> I have not tested the Orange Globes or the second set of Amprex USN-CPE


 
  Tubes usually don't sizzle...bacon and solid-state components (capacitors, etc.) tend to do that.  Tubes tend to go pffft...you really might want to get the Lyr checked out (ok, they ring, whine, buzz, and screech too).
   
  I could be wrong but if a component in the Lyr goes while you are checking tubes, it may take the tubes with it.
   
  Do you know anybody nearby who has something to test the tubes themselves (like another Lyr)?
   
  *EDIT*  Do you notice any odd smells from the Lyr?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bsn said:


> Hi, I mostly lurk and rarely post on Head-fi, but thought I would run a question by everyone here. I’m thinking I might add another set of Lyr tubes to my collection.  Does anyone have an opinion between a set of Matsu$hita E88CC /6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling or the Ediswan CV2492 / 6922?  Which would you get, or should I pass on both?  I tend to favor good midrange and soundstage. I listen to a lot of jazz and rock.
> 
> I already have:
> Matched Bugle Boys (favorite so far)
> ...


 
  Hi!  I can't speak for the Ediswan tubes, but the Matsu's were my daily use tube when I didn't want to wear out my Lorenz.  I found the mid-range was quite musical with some good extension into bass and treble.  Good tubes for 70's rock and some Jazz.
  Tubemonger has them for $40 a tube and will match them if you buy a set.
   
  Understand my ears are different than yours but the Matsu's were pretty favored here on the thread when the Lorenz were drying up.
  Hope that helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Tubes usually don't sizzle...bacon and solid-state components (capacitors, etc.) tend to do that.  Tubes tend to go pffft...you really might want to get the Lyr checked out (ok, they ring, whine, buzz, and screech too).
> 
> I could be wrong but if a component in the Lyr goes while you are checking tubes, it may take the tubes with it.
> 
> ...


 
  I used a totally wrong adjective.   I was describing an audible statics sound heard through the cans...... strike the bacon sizzle thing.
  The only detectable oder is from me.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I used a totally wrong adjective.   I was describing an audible statics sound heard through the cans...... strike the bacon sizzle thing.
> The only detectable oder is from me.


 
  I hope you didn't take it wrong, I wasn't commenting on the adjective, just the components in the Lyr.  But since you aren't detecting any burning odor it "might" not be an issue.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## mikek200

A big +1 on the Matsu's,..in fact HK sold them to me.
  bsn,///have you looked at the Mullard  CV 2493's ? a really beautiful tube,.I had a few of them,when I used the Lyr.
   
   
  Mike


----------



## bsn

Thanks HK!  It sounds like I need to pick a pair of Matsu's up from the Tubemonger.


----------



## Iamnothim

hk_sends said:


> I hope you didn't take it wrong, I wasn't commenting on the adjective, just the components in the Lyr.  But since you aren't detecting any burning odor it "might" not be an issue.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Well, I really hope the Herbie's Audio Dampers work for you.  I never had any problems using them.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> A big +1 on the Matsu's,..in fact HK sold them to me.
> bsn,///have you looked at the Mullard  CV 2493's ? a really beautiful tube,.I had a few of them,when I used the Lyr.
> 
> 
> Mike


 
  I see the CV2493 at Upscale Audio.  They look very nice, but I might wait to see what I get in the way of Mullards for Christmas.  I know I am getting a matched pair of Mullards from my wife, but not sure exactly what is going to show up under the tree. They are coming from a reputable dealer, so whatever they are, they should be good. I will put the CV 2493 on my wish list.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I just ordered a set of Herbie's microphonic tube dampeners.
> 
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm   Probably VooDoo science.
> 
> ...


 
  I have used several Herbie's products and been happy with them.  I have a set of the Tenderfoot feet under my Lyr right now.  Keep in mind, these items are tweaks, not massive earth shattering upgrades. That being said, they can cure problems like microphonic issues.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bsn said:


> I have used several Herbie's products and been happy with them.  I have a set of the Tenderfoot feet under my Lyr right now.  Keep in mind, these items are tweaks, not massive earth shattering upgrades. That being said, they can cure problems like microphonic issues.


 
  basically voodoo
   
  i tend to buy a lot of voodoo


----------



## Iamnothim

I've isolated the problem to a specific tube.
  I just sent mercedesman a note.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> basically voodoo
> 
> i tend to buy a lot of voodoo


 
  Ah got it.  I like the voodoo that Mapleshade sells too.


----------



## Iamnothim

Rather than listen to the backup pair of 62' Amprex USN-CEP's, I loaded the Bugle Boy's
  I hated these tubes....  They sound amazing now.
   
  I'm keeping those in until the other pair of the USN's are resolved.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bsn said:


> Ah got it.  I like the voodoo that Mapleshade sells too.


 
  Oh Oh !!
  Who is Mapleshade ????
   
   
  EDIT.
   
  Bookmarked !


----------



## 333jeffery

Bsn, you should try the Telefunken PCC85 tubes. They are great with rock music. Fairly cheap, too.


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





bsn said:


> Hi, I mostly lurk and rarely post on Head-fi, but thought I would run a question by everyone here. I’m thinking I might add another set of Lyr tubes to my collection.  Does anyone have an opinion between a set of Matsu$hita E88CC /6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling or the Ediswan CV2492 / 6922?  Which would you get, or should I pass on both?  I tend to favor good midrange and soundstage. I listen to a lot of jazz and rock.
> 
> I already have:
> Matched Bugle Boys (favorite so far)
> ...


 
   
  I have them both....clearly the cv2492 is a step up.  Matsu's are good for the value though and is a pretty big jump from the stock Lyr GE tubes but the cv2492 improves upon them in every way imo....and damn them mullards are smooth.....perfect for jazz and rock.


----------



## Fearless1

These are the best "cheaper"  tubes I have tried http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-JAN-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1972-MATCHED-PAIR-GREEN-HORNETS-MIL-SPEC-/321017700594?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4abe2560f2 .   They are good all-arounders with nice bass response and fantastic mid-range presence.


----------



## MattTCG

So many tubes...so little money.


----------



## bsn

sensui123 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I did order the Matsu's and some socket savers last night. I will give the CV2492 a try, but will wait until after Christmas to see what the tube dealer sends to my wife for my Christmas gift. I know I am getting Mullards, just not sure what set, they may be the CVs.


----------



## Iamnothim

Ordered some more tubes from mercedesman
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-SWEET-TONE-SOUND-0-/321038135135?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4abf5d2f5f


----------



## MattTCG

^^
   
  +1 But still no shipping info!! What's up Ron?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Ordered some more tubes from mercedesman
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-SWEET-TONE-SOUND-0-/321038135135?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4abf5d2f5f


 
  Why did you order those if you already have some orange globes? Are these a lot different than the ones you have?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Why did you order those if you already have some orange globes? Are these a lot different than the ones you have?


 
  Nope.  The same.
  Just wanted an extra pair of what I like.
  I did the same thing with the USN-CEP-6922


----------



## Mediahound

I just ordered these replacement vibration absorbing feet for my Lyr. I may as well put them on the Bifrost too, right?:
   
  "http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003IMSIBA/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003IMSIBA&linkCode=as2&tag=tt-20
   
  PS, don't be tempted to get 2" feet. I think that would look ridiculous.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Nope.  The same.
> Just wanted an extra pair of what I like.
> I did the same thing with the USN-CEP-6922


 
   
  Ah, I see.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I just ordered these replacement vibration absorbing feet for my Lyr. I may as well put them on the Bifrost too, right?:
> 
> "http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003IMSIBA/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003IMSIBA&linkCode=as2&tag=tt-20
> 
> PS, don't be tempted to get 2" feet. I think that would look ridiculous.


 
  Hey thanks for the link.
   
  I was going to find some for my gear to try to mitigate micro phonics.
  The ones Schitt provides are tiny and next to useless.
   
  One place to find an amazing selection of hardware parts is 
  http://mcmaster.com
  They have over 400,000 items.  From small parts to industrial.
  You want ss screws in a specific alloy?  They got it.
  The web site is no-nonsense and works great.
  Returns are hassle free,
   
  If they don't have it, it pretty much doesn't exist.
  example:
   
  http://www.mcmaster.com/#rubber-feet/=kj9x86


----------



## MattTCG

I see no reason not to get a second pair of tubes that you really like. Who knows what will be available five years from now.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I see no reason not to get a second pair of tubes that you really like. Who knows what will be available five years from now.


 
  Who knows what won't be available 5 years from now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  All things considered they don't cost much.
  That's just one of my goofy ways.


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





bsn said:


> I did order the Matsu's and some socket savers last night. I will give the CV2492 a try, but will wait until after Christmas to see what the tube dealer sends to my wife for my Christmas gift. I know I am getting Mullards, just not sure what set, they may be the CVs.


 
   
  If you're after the Mullards, I'd seriously consider the CV2493's.  They are the best Mullards I've heard thus far, CV2492 and the Blackburn ones are nice as well.
   
  @ iamnothim:
   
  I just received my lcd-2 last friday and haven't really had the time to listen this weekend (crazy kids).....but having more time tonight to listen.....extremely sound signature to the LCD-3, very laid back and smooth in the lows/mids.  Great bass signature of Audeze.  I think pending on what you listen to....if you listen to a lot of music like Jazz or vocals, I think you can't go wrong wit the LCD-2....on the other hand, I believe HE-500 to be a better overall pairing for being more neutral and a better performer with a wider genre of music....lcd-2/lcd-3 with house/dance music isn't exactly my cup of tea for example.


----------



## Iamnothim

Mine are in the capable hands of UPS.
   
  I'm not a dance/techno guy.
  I'm confident I'll be happy.


----------



## 333jeffery

^If you like the Ventures, you should try the Rumblers album "Boss".


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> ^If you like the Ventures, you should try the Rumblers album "Boss".


 
  cool


----------



## Iamnothim

Tube maintenance:
   
  I got my little rubber feet today.
  The are 3/4 dia. by 3/8" hight
  I got the extra soft 30  durometer Polyurethane type.
  Boy are they soft.  Like a marshmallow.  Perhaps too soft since it jiggles if you touch it.
  $1.32 each
   
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/3763/=kjvm5i
   
  I also found some contact cleaning abrasive boards.
  They're like flexible narrow emory boards, except the grit is 320 zirconia alumina 
  They worked great for getting the corrosive coating off tube pins.  Very flexible and just a little fine dust.
  I ordered fine, extra-fine, and polish.  I used "polish"
  $1.25 each
   
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/2681/=kjvmxu


----------



## BobJS

I just received my new (used-mint) Lyr tonight with 7 pairs of tubes. This one.  The one big pointer the guy I bought it from told me is, above all, stay away from this thread for the benefit of my wallet.  So of course I had to pop in ... I see I have 300 some pages of posts to wade through.
   
  I will say that I've tried 3 sets of tubes so far, and I've enjoyed the original GE's the best so far.  Coming from an Audioquest dragonfly into a Hifiman HE-500, and a Senn HD600.  The Lyr is noticeably punchier than the Asgard I was using.
   
  Do you guys have a trick tool for easily removing the tubes?


----------



## MattTCG

The best thing to do is to buy some tube savers. They are small adapters that plug into the end of each tube, just about an inch tall. It will make the tubes less recessed inside the lyr and much easier to remove. An added benefit is that you will notice a nice drop in temperature.
   
  The easiest way to remove the tubes without the tube savers is to use a small piece of packing tape. Just cover the top of the tube only and rock it gently free.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I just received my new (used-mint) Lyr tonight with 7 pairs of tubes. This one.  The one big pointer the guy I bought it from told me is, above all, stay away from this thread for the benefit of my wallet.  So of course I had to pop in ... I see I have 300 some pages of posts to wade through.
> 
> I will say that I've tried 3 sets of tubes so far, and I've enjoyed the original GE's the best so far.  Coming from an Audioquest dragonfly into a Hifiman HE-500, and a Senn HD600.  The Lyr is noticeably punchier than the Asgard I was using.
> 
> Do you guys have a trick tool for easily removing the tubes?


 
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> The best thing to do is to buy some tube savers. They are small adapters that plug into the end of each tube, just about an inch tall. It will make the tubes less recessed inside the lyr and much easier to remove. An added benefit is that you will notice a nice drop in temperature.
> 
> The easiest way to remove the tubes without the tube savers is to use a small piece of packing tape. Just cover the top of the tube only and rock it gently free.


 
   
   
   
  Yep, 
   
  see http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/4470#post_8934937 from above. 
   
  It makes swapping tubes sooo much easier.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I just received my new (used-mint) Lyr tonight with 7 pairs of tubes. This one.  The one big pointer the guy I bought it from told me is, above all, stay away from this thread for the benefit of my wallet.  So of course I had to pop in ... I see I have 300 some pages of posts to wade through.
> 
> I will say that I've tried 3 sets of tubes so far, and I've enjoyed the original GE's the best so far.  Coming from an Audioquest dragonfly into a Hifiman HE-500, and a Senn HD600.  The Lyr is noticeably punchier than the Asgard I was using.
> 
> Do you guys have a trick tool for easily removing the tubes?


 
  I think you got a great selection of tubes already.  I agree the socket savers are a good idea (they'll help keep the interior of the Lyr cooler), but you can also get this for removing tubes (or pulling them while they are still hot:
http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355279893&sr=8-1&keywords=tube+glove
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Hey, that's nice!! Thanks HK...didn't know about that one.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I think you got a great selection of tubes already.  I agree the socket savers are a good idea (they'll help keep the interior of the Lyr cooler), but you can also get this for removing tubes (or pulling them while they are still hot:
> http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355279893&sr=8-1&keywords=tube+glove
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


 
  I have a large rubber grommet that I tried, but I couldn't grasp the tube below the top surface.  My other concern is damaging the label.
  I knew there had to be something like that product!
  I thought about McMaster  http://www.mcmaster.com/#push-in-grommets/=kjycax


----------



## jronan2

I don't have enough time to completely read through this entire thread. I'm just looking for basically what is the best overall Lyr tube set, that is priced affordably, and can easily to bought. I would love to try some of those highly touted Lorenz tubes but there not around and I just don't have the time or patience to find them. 
   
  So what is a good buy on tubes thats going to open up my Lyr? Thanks guys.


----------



## HK_sends

Yeah, I used the tube glove when I wanted to swap hot tubes so I could do quick A/B comparisons of tubes.  Even though I used socket savers them suckers were pretty warm to grasp with my bare hands.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I never had any problems with the tube glove rubbing off labels (make sure you know which way the label is facing and pinch the glove over bare glass...voila!...no messed up labels).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - All the tube glove is is a foam rubber tube (that doesn't melt with hot tubes) with a logo.  The large end is for pulling larger tubes and the small end is for 9-pin sized tubes.  To me it was worth the price.


----------



## MickeyVee

I just use surgical gloves.Works like a charm and they're dirt cheap at the drug store.
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I have a large rubber grommet that I tried, but I couldn't grasp the tube below the top surface.  My other concern is damaging the label.
> I knew there had to be something like that product!
> I thought about McMaster  http://www.mcmaster.com/#push-in-grommets/=kjycax


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I don't have enough time to completely read through this entire thread. I'm just looking for basically what is the best overall Lyr tube set, that is priced affordably, and can easily to bought. I would love to try some of those highly touted Lorenz tubes but there not around and I just don't have the time or patience to find them.
> 
> So what is a good buy on tubes thats going to open up my Lyr? Thanks guys.


 
  Were sorry, the thread rule is you have to read all posts at least twice before we can answer that question.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The truth is, you can ask 100 people and you are going to get 100 opinions about that.  My preference:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

jronan2 said:


> I don't have enough time to completely read through this entire thread. I'm just looking for basically what is the best overall Lyr tube set, that is priced affordably, and can easily to bought. I would love to try some of those highly touted Lorenz tubes but there not around and I just don't have the time or patience to find them.
> 
> So what is a good buy on tubes thats going to open up my Lyr? Thanks guys.




First. I'm an Amprex bigot. 
I think Orange Globes sound great and are pretty cheap. Mine are 62's

Second. You've got some OG "A" frames that should sound sweet.

So that's my answer. Affordable and sounds good. The tube you own.


----------



## drumsnspace

hey guys, just purchased a set of HE-500 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and i'm pretty much set on purchasing a lyr and bifrost to go with it. this is my first foray into truly high-end audio gear (next closest thing is my ER-4P IEMs that give me ear aches 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) so anyways, i've been searching for some good tubes to roll in and i'll just use the GE set as backups. considering Amperex 6922 PQ, found a nice NOS set. any comments on how this will improve sound over the stock GE pair? seems to be pretty unanimously regarded as a solid set for the lyr. curious how it will match up with the rest of my set up... i've heard of sellers on ebay rebranding tubes? any offenders to look out for? anyone dealt with tubemazestore? thanks for the help!


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> First. I'm an Amprex bigot.


 
   
  Yet you can't spell the name. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


> So that's my answer. Affordable and sounds good. The tube you own.


 
   
  Sanity. A rare concept.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> First. I'm an Amprex bigot.
> I think Orange Globes sound great and are pretty cheap. Mine are 62's
> Second. You've got some OG "A" frames that should sound sweet.
> So that's my answer. Affordable and sounds good. The tube you own.


 

 Are you referring to me?  As to already owning ?


----------



## Iamnothim

oskari said:


> Yet you can't spell the name. :devil_face:




And you didn't read my signature.


----------



## Iamnothim

bobjs said:


> Are you referring to me?  As to already owning ?




I , obviously, don't have any idea what I am talking about. It is best to ignore me.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> And you didn't read my signature.


 
   
  Sure did. Does not excuse you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quite often _Amperex _should be spelt _Philips, _anyway.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Sure did. Does not excuse you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You're excused for your English because you're from Findland.   'Spelt' should be spelled 'spelled'


----------



## MattTCG

Alright alright...back on topic.


----------



## MattTCG

Got a new set of "special" orange globes due in the mail today!!


----------



## MattTCG

Got the Amperex Orange Globes in about an hour ago. They are the best that I have ever owned hands down. Beautiful mids...the bass is insane, deeper, more impact and wonderfully textured. I actually giggled like a girl when the bassline first hit. And I'm not ashamed either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Here is the link if anyone is interested. Still smiling listening to these. This is the reason I bought a tube amp...moments like this:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-SWEET-TONE-SOUND-0-/221163649252?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item337e6178e4


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, I've got another 1/2 hour on these tubes and I must just say...wow. They run $70 I think from mercedesman, but I can't imagine what a $200 set would sound like.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Okay, I've got another 1/2 hour on these tubes and I must just say...wow. They run $70 I think from mercedesman, but I can't imagine what a $200 set would sound like.


 
  +1


----------



## chris3g

glad to hear you are liking them, i also bought a set a few days ago but they haven't arrived yet. Of course it doesn't really matter as i don't have my Lyr yet either


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Got the Amperex Orange Globes in about an hour ago. They are the best that I have ever owned hands down. Beautiful mids...the bass is insane, deeper, more impact and wonderfully textured. I actually giggled like a girl when the bassline first hit. And I'm not ashamed either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was just trying my set of these out for the first time for about 15 minutes thinking... hmmm, these are the best so far, and I came upon your post


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I was just trying my set of these out for the first time for about 15 minutes thinking... hmmm, these are the best so far, and I came upon your post


 
  Bob,
  Those are awful tubes.
  Might last a week.
  You really should sell them.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Bob,
> Those are awful tubes.
> Might last a week.
> You really should sell them.


 

 Maybe try using the force ........  "These are not the tubes you're looking for ...... "


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Sure did. Does not excuse you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sorry, it's "Phillip" not "Philips"...oh...you meant the tube!?!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - Got a Lyr back in my house again, finally!


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Mine are in the capable hands of UPS.
> 
> I'm not a dance/techno guy.
> I'm confident I'll be happy.


 
   
  After further listening, I'm going to say I prefer the HE-500 with a lot of the 80-90's rock I listen to as well.  The LCD-2 is a bit too dark for that genre with the Lyr.  Nice to see everyone scoring some nice tubes, I bought the last set of the amperex usn cep with the large O getters from mercedesman as well and just arrived today....will have to give them a whirl and compare to my amperex white PQ's e188cc.....another favorite of mine.


----------



## MattTCG

I'd be interested in that comparison.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Sorry, it's "Phillip" not "Philips"...oh...you meant the tube!?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  And so it goes allll over again.


----------



## Mediahound

So what's the best way to store tubes that are not in use? Is there a nice compartmentalized box that fits them well or something like that?


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> And so it goes allll over again.


 
   
  When you coming back in the game? =D


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> When you coming back in the game? =D


 
  Pf. I'm getting out of the game with some $100 dainty Schiit. Let you suckers keep the pockets empty. 
  But to be serious, we'll see what Schiit's statement hybrid option offers. I do miss the ole Lyr because of y'all.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> So what's the best way to store tubes that are not in use? Is there a nice compartmentalized box that fits them well or something like that?


 
   
  I hear that a woman's make up kit does well for this but I'm open for suggestions and amazon links.


----------



## Iamnothim

matttcg said:


> I hear that a woman's make up kit does well for this but I'm open for suggestions and amazon links.


Ya know.
An egg carton put inside a box or case..... Maybe.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> So what's the best way to store tubes that are not in use? Is there a nice compartmentalized box that fits them well or something like that?


 
  I ordered the following for test purposes.
  I should have them tomorrow and let you know if they work.
   
  #1  
 Slide-On Vinyl Foam Round Grips with Open Ends  7/8" OD  72" length  enough for over 30 tubes.  $11
  http://www.mcmaster.com/?orderview=new#catalog/118/3748/=kkf7hf
   
   

   
   
  #2
Push-on Round Cap Fits 3/4"-13/16" OD, 1-1/2" Inside Height   qty 100 for $9
  http://www.mcmaster.com/?orderview=new#catalog/118/3749/=kkf9ev


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Nice!! Please post back...very interesting.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ Nice!! Please post back...very interesting.


 
  I like option #1 But I think I should have ordered 1" OD tube.   Because the wall thickness of the 7/8" OD is .27"
  I missed that.
  I took calipers to a tube and it's 13/16" dia.
  I can return it for a 1" with a .20 wall thickness.
   
  Anyway it'll be fun to see.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> And so it goes allll over again.


 
  Yeah, I was thinking that too!  Even got more Lorenz tubes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  One day I may get those little Schiits in the other thread...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> So what's the best way to store tubes that are not in use? Is there a nice compartmentalized box that fits them well or something like that?


 
  I stored mine in their original boxes in a tupperware container.  If the tubes didn't come with boxes, I used these:
   
  http://tubedepot.com/box-001.html
   
  20 boxes for $3.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yeah, I was thinking that too!  Even got more Lorenz tubes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just glad to see you back in the muck of things! And with Lorenz of all tubes!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Just glad to see you back in the muck of things! And with Lorenz of all tubes!


 
  Lucky catch on Ebay.  I hope they turn out good.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Lucky catch on Ebay.  I hope they turn out good.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  HK,
  Mind if I ask,why didn't you go SS..?
  Miss the tube rolling??


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I hear that a woman's make up kit does well for this but I'm open for suggestions and amazon links.


 
  Jewelry boxes work nice as well


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> HK,
> Mind if I ask,why didn't you go SS..?
> Miss the tube rolling??


 
  I couldn't afford the Mjolnir and I enjoyed the sound of the Lorenz and some of the other tubes.  I won't be on the same quest for the "perfect" tube like I was before.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - When it comes down to it, I guess I do like the "tube sound" over solid state...


----------



## Mediahound

I received the 3/4" Sorbothane feet today, installed them on my Lyr and Bifrost (I don't stack them). Really like them, tapping/pushing on the Lyr, it feels like it's got shocks or something now.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I couldn't afford the Mjolnir and I enjoyed the sound of the Lorenz and some of the other tubes.  I won't be on the same quest for the "perfect" tube like I was before.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  OK,enjoy


----------



## sensui123

Been comparing the amperex USN CEP from mercedesman with my e188cc white lable PQ tonight out of curiosity since I've seen a lot of talk about them lately.  They are both extremely fine tubes for sure (only have been listening with the LCD-2 so far since this is the closest within my reach now as I'm breakin them in).....I do feel that the e188cc will throw up a bigger soundstage and offers a bit more detail compared to the USN CEP's.  But definitely the USN CEP's have been hitting the right notes in terms of bass....that's probably the first thing I noticed putting these tubes in.  Pretty satisfied with the USN CEPs, ordered the white label amperex hewlett pacard with the D getter from mercedesman as I saw him throw up another NOS pair that measures very well.  So far I'd have to say my top tubes are the top Amperex white label tubes and the Lorenz tubes made in Stuggart (mica-2/mica-3).  The Mullards are nice and smooth (cv2492/cv2493/blackburn etc) but cannot compare to the overall clarity and dimensionality of the fore mentioned tubes.....
   
  I dunno how some of you guys could completely give up the Lyr to go SS (I have both the Mjolnir and the Lyr).....although the Mjolnir sounds uber nice with harder to drive headphones and is just damn clean through and out.....I find myself still going to the Lyr a lot of the days since the tube sound is something SS will never replace.  Especially after a long day @ work, I need that warm tube sound therapy to relax me.


----------



## 333jeffery

^I've found the Lyr to be better for vocals than the Mjolnir. It has the lush warmth that just makes the female voice sound sooo good.


----------



## rlawli

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> You're excused for your English because you're from Findland.   'Spelt' should be spelled 'spelled'


 
   
  "Findland" -- very cute. How about find-a-dictionary. If you're not careful you'll give ethnocentric midwesterners an undeserved reputation. 'Spelled' is spelt 'spelt' if you're from virtually anywhere other than the US. 'Spelt' also predates the appearance of 'spelled' in Middle English by several hundred years. But YMMV


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





rlawli said:


> "Findland" -- very cute. How about find-a-dictionary. If you're not careful you'll give ethnocentric midwesterners an undeserved reputation. 'Spelled' is spelt 'spelt' if you're from virtually anywhere other than the US. 'Spelt' also predates the appearance of 'spelled' in Middle English by several hundred years. But YMMV


 

 Yep, totally my bad.  Probawbly cuz I'm transplanted from New Yawk.  MMDV  (My Mileage Does.......)


----------



## BobJS

(Ahem) Hypothetical question to the wise tube rollers .....  if one were to say, be the proud owner of A Frame Amperex Orange Globes, and this hypothetical person were to peruse the marketplace for a set of backups,  do you think there is a distinction between 2 sets of tubes, otherwise identical, but one set 'A-Frame' and the other (whatever you call it ----) 'non-A-Frame'?


----------



## nickwin

Has anyone upgraded from the M Stage to the Lyr, or directly compared the two?  I'm curious how much of an upgrade the Lyr is over the M Stage, if any.  I would be using it with K701s,.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> (Ahem) Hypothetical question to the wise tube rollers .....  if one were to say, be the proud owner of A Frame Amperex Orange Globes, and this hypothetical person were to peruse the marketplace for a set of backups,  do you think there is a distinction between 2 sets of tubes, otherwise identical, but one set 'A-Frame' and the other (whatever you call it ----) 'non-A-Frame'?


 
  Theoretically, the sound shouldn't be different, but the reality is opinions differ.  Some people say they sound the same and some are convinced they don't.  I err on the side of caution and buy tubes that have identical internal construction.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Yep, totally my bad.


 
   
  No harm done. I did consider posting this, though, with some relevant insults.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> (Ahem) Hypothetical question to the wise tube rollers .....  if one were to say, be the proud owner of A Frame Amperex Orange Globes, and this hypothetical person were to peruse the marketplace for a set of backups,  do you think there is a distinction between 2 sets of tubes, otherwise identical, but one set 'A-Frame' and the other (whatever you call it ----) 'non-A-Frame'?


 
  I asked TubeHunter (Mercedesman6572) that same question and he said most prefer the D getters but he thinks the A getter is a more robust design that should absorb microphonic vibrations better. I would guess that they sound nearly identical though.


----------



## Iamnothim

Got my little tube thingies...
   
   

   
  I wonder where they came from?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ those are tube protectors??


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ those are tube protectors??


 
  They are highly sophisticate tube microphinics dampeners.


----------



## Iamnothim

I know this is off topic but I had to post a tribute to the master.
  Thank you Ravi for widening my ears. 
  May you rest in peace.
  The peace you have provided for so many others.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Got my little tube thingies...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well, what is the verdict?  Are the tube dampers keepers?  I was thinking about getting a set for Lyr.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bsn said:


> Well, what is the verdict?  Are the tube dampers keepers?  I was thinking about getting a set for Lyr.


 
  If I had a tube with bad micro-phonics I could tell you better.
  Everything sounds crystal clear now.
  So if ya have the cash and you want to light a match to it...
  Go for it !
  I find them aesthetically pleasing.  (Rationalizing)
   
  I believe I have noticed a change by using a Furman AC215A power conditioner.
  I found it new on Amazon for $111 that's an $80 discount.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> If I had a tube with bad micro-phonics I could tell you better.
> Everything sounds crystal clear now.
> So if ya have the cash and you want to light a match to it...
> Go for it !
> ...


 
 I might just go ahead and order some after Christmas. I have the Herbie's Tenderfoot feet under the Lyr right now and a set of Herbie's SuperSonic Stabilizers on top of Lyr. I might as well complete the set. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I got the National / Matsu 6922's and the socket savers yesterday from Tubemonger, so I have the height clearance to make the dampers fit. I noticed my Lyr runs a lot cooler with the socket savers in place. That alone made the upgrade worth the trip.  The Matsu 6922 tubes are pretty good too.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bsn said:


> I might just go ahead and order some after Christmas. I have the Herbie's Tenderfoot feet under the Lyr right now and a set of Herbie's SuperSonic Stabilizers on top of Lyr. I might as well complete the set.
> 
> 
> 
> ...
 
  I love my tube extenders 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Besides better cooling there is a lot less stress put on the tube when you extract them.
  Even installing the tube...
  Instead of dinging the side of the tube when you are lining it up, the extender is the thing getting taped against the access hole.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ Nice!! Please post back...very interesting.


 
  Okie dokie,
   
  I got the stuff from McMaster today for tube storage.
  The little plastic caps are a no-go.  Too small.
   
  The foam grip looks great, except it's just a tad too tight.
  It would work fine, but I don't want to mung up the label.
   
  So I'm returning everything and getting the 1"OD foam grip stuff
  the wall on the 1" is thinner than the 7/8"    
   
  That said.
   The little white boxes are probably best.
  You can write on them and It's what the mfg's used to package the tubes when new.
  You can't argue with that.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ +1 Yeah, tubes are just too expensive and difficult to acquire. Once you get the good ones you want to protect them and the tube savers are a great way to do that. 
   
  I have an extra single that someone could have. You'd just have to buy an extra from the tubemonger site. Consider it half price.


----------



## Iamnothim

Do they stick up beyond the top of the Lyr?


----------



## MattTCG

Just slightly recessed from the top.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Just slightly recessed from the top.


 
  Perfect..
  That a nice offer, but I'd be paying postage twice...
  There are some "blemished" units available.
  Who cares, they're under the hood.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Just slightly recessed from the top.


 
  Ordered
  Thanks Matt


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I stored mine in their original boxes in a tupperware container.  If the tubes didn't come with boxes, I used these:
> 
> http://tubedepot.com/box-001.html
> 
> ...


 
  This is indeed the ticket.... KISS
  They work perfect with my OtterBox case.
  Ordered,
  Thanks


----------



## Iamnothim

I plagerized the composition of the image below from "Lyrill" in the "Schiit Owners Unite" thread.
   
It was cool so I took a similar shot.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Now that's sexy!!


----------



## BobJS

I've ordered some tube extenders, and though they're not here yet, the thought just occurred to me ...... when pulling the tubes out, what insures the extenders stay with the sockets on the board rather than come out still attached to the tube?
   
  Second question:  Are vacuum tube microphonics a real issue or do you like the dampers because they're 'sexy'?  Seriously, has anyone ever heard any feedback or other microphonics-related issues with their Lyr?


----------



## MattTCG

You can use a small blunt object to "hold" the tubesaver in place and gently pull the tube out to leave the tubesaver in place. Something like a popsickle stick will work. Just be careful!!


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I've ordered some tube extenders, and though they're not here yet, the thought just occurred to me ...... when pulling the tubes out, what insures the extenders stay with the sockets on the board rather than come out still attached to the tube?
> 
> Second question:  Are vacuum tube microphonics a real issue or do you like the dampers because they're 'sexy'?  Seriously, has anyone ever heard any feedback or other microphonics-related issues with their Lyr?


 
  The extenders will come out if you don't use something to hold them in place when you pull the tubes. I have the tube extenders and I use a plastic stick to hold the top of the extender in place while I remove the tube. The stick I use was a tool that was included with an iPod battery replacement kit. I have read others use a wooden stick. The important thing is to find something that is sturdy enough for the task, fits without damaging the amp, and does not conduct electricity, so you do not get zapped. 
   
  Microphonics are a real issue, but the severity varies based on the tubes and the situation.  My ALO The Continental amp is quite microphonic, when you touch the volume control knob, you can hear a taping noise in the headphones. A tube in a preamp or phono stage that subjected to loud music from loudspeakers is going to be more an issue than a headphone amp.  However, a headphone amp can still have issues as there are small vibrations internal to the component from the transformers etc. So in the case of the headphone amp, the damper is more of a tweak than a must have. Also, some tube vendors test their tubes and grade them on how microphonic they are.  For example Vintage Tube Services, or Upscale Audio grade their tubes based on microphonics.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I've ordered some tube extenders, and though they're not here yet, the thought just occurred to me ...... when pulling the tubes out, what insures the extenders stay with the sockets on the board rather than come out still attached to the tube?
> 
> Second question:  Are vacuum tube microphonics a real issue or do you like the dampers because they're 'sexy'?  Seriously, has anyone ever heard any feedback or other microphonics-related issues with their Lyr?


 
  I never bothered to try to keep the extenders from coming out with the tube.  If it does, just pop the tube off the extender, plug-in another one, and insert them both back in the Lyr.  My old Lyr's sockets were a little loose (from me rolling so many tubes) so it was more trouble than it was worth trying to keep the extenders from coming out and I never had any problems.  As far as the dampers go, I had Herbie's dampers as well and I did have some microphonic tubes.  The dampers really do work and they really do affect (improve...at least to me) the sound.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I've ordered some tube extenders, and though they're not here yet, the thought just occurred to me ...... when pulling the tubes out, what insures the extenders stay with the sockets on the board rather than come out still attached to the tube?
> 
> Second question:  Are vacuum tube microphonics a real issue or do you like the dampers because they're 'sexy'?  Seriously, has anyone ever heard any feedback or other microphonics-related issues with their Lyr?


 
  Hi Bob,
  IMO: One of the benefits of tube extenders is that they come out with the tube.  This means all the stress is on the extender's pins, not the tube's pins.  The same goes for reinserting the tube/extender assembly.  You have better control / dexterity. 
  Microphonics dampeners.
   
   IMO:  I had a tube that developed severe microphonics out of the blue.  I returned the pair for exchange, but I also ordered the dampeners.  As HK_sends sez.... I detect a cleaner sound.  This could very well be phycological... but I do think there is an improvement.   I also like the look.


----------



## Mediahound

Tube extenders are one of the best things I ever bought. I get the impression Schiit didn't originally intend for the Lyr to be rollable or something, with the tubes recessed so much.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I think that there are some design challenges involved there tbh. It would have been nice if the tubes were flush with the top of the chasis though like the LD amps.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Tube extenders are one of the best things I ever bought. I get the impression Schiit didn't originally intend for the Lyr to be rollable or something, with the tubes recessed so much.


 
  It might also be because they didn't expect owners to get so hooked on rolling tubes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Imbedding the tubes in the amp like that does add a measure of protection as well.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## BobJS

I'm now extended!   The tubes in the Lyr, that is


----------



## Iamnothim

Tell me, where do the children play?


----------



## 290752

I hope you guys won't make me read all 310 pages 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  What would be the ideal tube for calssical to pair with my LCD-2?
   
  I'm willing to pay <$200 for a matched pair
   
  Also, does this http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB fit inside the Lyr?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





kepler28nm said:


> I'm willing to pay <$200 for a matched pair
> 
> Also, does this http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB fit inside the Lyr?


 
   
  That doesn't look like the right one for the Lyr. I believe this is the one you want:
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/TRIODE_FLIPPER_with_Vibration_Reduction_Base_p/triodeflipper.htm


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> That doesn't look like the right one for the Lyr. I believe this is the one you want:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/TRIODE_FLIPPER_with_Vibration_Reduction_Base_p/triodeflipper.htm


 
  Do not get that! That's a triode flipper, dude.
   
  You want the socker savers.


----------



## 290752

paradoxper said:


> Do not get that! That's a triode flipper, dude.
> 
> You want the socker savers.


 

  would it fit inside my lyr? The opening for the tubes are quite small...
   
  Also, how would I get it out?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





kepler28nm said:


> would it fit inside my lyr? The opening for the tubes are quite small...
> 
> Also, how would I get it out?


 
  Yes, it's no wider than a tube itself. They come out with the tube when you pull the tube out.


----------



## Mediahound

I got these, only like $6.00:
   
   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Socket-Saver-9-Nine-Pin-12ax7-6bq5-Extender-Tube-Amp-Amplifier-Test-Adapter-/300832608801?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item460b055221


----------



## 290752

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I got these, only like $6.00:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Socket-Saver-9-Nine-Pin-12ax7-6bq5-Extender-Tube-Amp-Amplifier-Test-Adapter-/300832608801?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item460b05


 
  Hmm. It looks like it's only a extender, not a damper.
   
  How is this tube?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-RARE-AMPEREX-GOLD-PIN-E88CC-6922-PREMIUM-MATCHED-ECC88-6DJ8-Amp-Audio-Tube-/110990134300?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d7870c1c


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





kepler28nm said:


> Also, does this http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB fit inside the Lyr?


 
  This one does fir into the Lyr.  The Triode Flipper allows you to use the second triode of the tube (the Lyr only uses one per tube) supposedly allowing you to get extended use out of the tube.
  As far as fitting in the Lyr and removal, just go back about four or five pages as we already talked about it.  To sum up, they will fit fine and may come out with the tube.  And if they do, just pop on a new tube and plug it back in.
   
  I've used both the Triode Flipper and Noval Socket Saver in the Lyr with no problems...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





kepler28nm said:


> Hmm. It looks like it's only a extender, not a damper.
> 
> How is this tube?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-RARE-AMPEREX-GOLD-PIN-E88CC-6922-PREMIUM-MATCHED-ECC88-6DJ8-Amp-Audio-Tube-/110990134300?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d7870c1c


 
  JAN tubes are supposed to be pretty good.  The problem is that one man's trash is another man's treasure.  It's going to be up to your ears in the end.  There are inexpensive tubes out there that many people are very happy with.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> This one does fir into the Lyr.  The Triode Flipper allows you to use the second triode of the tube (the Lyr only uses one per tube) supposedly allowing you to get extended use out of the tube.
> As far as fitting in the Lyr and removal, just go back about four or five pages as we already talked about it.  To sum up, they will fit fine and may come out with the tube.  And if they do, just pop on a new tube and plug it back in.
> 
> I've used both the Triode Flipper and Noval Socket Saver in the Lyr with no problems...
> ...


 
  Interesting. So what happened with the incident of triode flippers causing damage? Misuse?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





kepler28nm said:


> Hmm. It looks like it's only a extender, not a damper.


 
   
   
  The vibration reduction tube extenders have silicone in them. I sorta worry about that melting and leaking out into the amp. I have no experience with them though so not sure if that is a possibility?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Interesting. So what happened with the incident of triode flippers causing damage? Misuse?


 
  As far I as I remember, that didn't happen to me.  Was that Mr. Scary?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> The vibration reduction tube extenders have silicone in them. I sorta worry about that melting and leaking out into the amp. I have no experience with them though so not sure if that is a possibility?


 
  The silicone is the high-temperature stuff.  It won't get hot enough to leak.
   
  No one I've talked to has ever had a problem.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





kepler28nm said:


> Hmm. It looks like it's only a extender, not a damper.
> 
> How is this tube?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-RARE-AMPEREX-GOLD-PIN-E88CC-6922-PREMIUM-MATCHED-ECC88-6DJ8-Amp-Audio-Tube-/110990134300?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d7870c1c


 
  I read the eBay listing a couple times and could not find a Date.
  I always question listings that don't provide a date of mfg.
   
  There are plenty of listings that do.
   
  Again, I might have missed it....


----------



## Mediahound

I now have a pair of Siemens PCC88 on the way. It will be interesting to compare them to the Amperex Orange Globes.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I now have a pair of Siemens PCC88 on the way. It will be interesting to compare them to the Amperex Orange Globes.


 
  The Siemens PCC88 have a fantastic sound stage, not as bass heavy as the Orange Globes, crisper  highs then the Amperex and a bit less mid range.


----------



## Mediahound

So I decided I don't like the Sorbothane feet I got. They are too sticky and I'm afraid they will damage the table surface over time. 
   
  Although I know it is probably going to be a pain peeling them off my Schiit, which of these Herbie's feet would be the best for the Lyr and Bifrost? Anyone know?:
   
  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm


----------



## timtoo

Hi everyone,
  do you guy know which tube is good for DT880 and 990 (both are 600 ohm) 
  Thanks


----------



## Iamnothim

mediahound said:


> So I decided I don't like the Sorbothane feet I got. They are too sticky and I'm afraid they will damage the table surface over time.
> 
> Although I know it is probably going to be a pain peeling them off my Schiit, which of these Herbie's feet would be the best for the Lyr and Bifrost? Anyone know?:
> 
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm


Check out McMaster. They have about 5 different harnesses. 

http://www.mcmaster.com/#adhesive-backed-bumpers/=kmxaxs


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Check out McMaster. They have about 5 different harnesses.
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#adhesive-backed-bumpers/=kmxaxs


 
  Thanks. I'm sorta lost on that link though. I'm not sure which is the best material.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hey photo I used herbies iso-cups with the lyr, I have a pic of them under the lyr in my photos if you want to get an idea of what they look like


----------



## Iamnothim

mediahound said:


> Thanks. I'm sorta lost on that link though. I'm not sure which is the best material.



At the top of the page there should be a link to a table that Gipsey what the different girl meter hardnesses are an example of what they me off more typing just type in the name of the compound like rubber and it should come up and it okay if you hold really big description hopefully that helps


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> As far I as I remember, that didn't happen to me.  Was that Mr. Scary?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  I know it wasn't you. I just thought you may have remembered. I think if it was Mrscary I wouldn't have forgotten.
  I'm sure as hell not going to wade through this damn thread to find out. I was just under the impression that triode flippers threw up caution flags, perhaps not.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> So I decided I don't like the Sorbothane feet I got. They are too sticky and I'm afraid they will damage the table surface over time.
> 
> Although I know it is probably going to be a pain peeling them off my Schiit, which of these Herbie's feet would be the best for the Lyr and Bifrost? Anyone know?:
> 
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm


 
  I'm running a set of Herbie's Tenderfoot feet under my Lyr and they work great for me.  I have not seen any problems with surface damage so far either.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





bsn said:


> I'm running a set of Herbie's Tenderfoot feet under my Lyr and they work great for me.  I have not seen any problems with surface damage so far either.


 
  Thanks. 
   
  Wow, so if I want a set of 8, it's gonna cost me over $110.!


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Wow, so if I want a set of 8, it's gonna cost me over $110.!


 
  I have not used the Baby Booties, but they may be an option.  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bbootie.htm You can e-mail Herbie's Audio Lab, and ask them which they suggest for your application.  He usually replies in a few hours.


----------



## MickeyVee

Just got my Lyr back from getting the relay installed (Thanks Jason!) - Also just got a set of Amerex 1969 Orange Globe Dimple Getter.  The both arrived today.. coincidence?? Ran the stock GEs for an hour or so and then rolled to the Amperex.  Awful at first, started off weak, but after an hour or so, I'm really liking them.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Wow, so if I want a set of 8, it's gonna cost me over $110.!


 
  Here is the hardness scales:
   

   
  All the adhesive backed bumpers at the top of the page are non-marking per description.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#adhesive-backed-buurmpers/=kn153d
   
  I would get the dome 5/8" x 5/16" DURO 60A - 70A  ("A" Scale above)
  Package of 40 for $8.43
  Your choice Black, Brown, Clear, White, Gray
   
  PS:
  I got the "Load Rated" 30-00 Extra Soft Polyurethane Extra Soft.
  Do Not Get these.  They are as soft as gummy bears and stick to the surface.  Although they do not mark.
  It's as if the Lyr stack was on springs.


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Just got my Lyr back from getting the relay installed (Thanks Jason!) - Also just got a set of Amerex 1969 Orange Globe Dimple Getter.  The both arrived today.. coincidence?? Ran the stock GEs for an hour or so and then rolled to the Amperex.  Awful at first, started off weak, but after an hour or so, I'm really liking them.


 
   
  has anyone confirmed if there is a difference in SQ with and without the relay? I left mine without because Jason mentioned the less things in the way the better.


----------



## BobJS

Just an update on some recent tubes I acquired.  I bought my Lyr with absolutely fantastic sound Apmerex Orange Globe (6DJ8), A Frames.  I wanted to get a backup pair, so I got Amperex Orange Globe O-getter types from Mercedesman.  I don't know if this is universal or just unique to my tubes, but I find the O-getters to have ever so slightly more refined and laid back bass and highs than the A frames.  The A-frames will wow you a little more at first listen, but the O-getters are just a tad tighter.
   
  Interestingly, I find my recently acquire Russian 6H23n-EB tubes have a little more mid-bass and nicely rolled off highs ---- they make my HD600 sound like an HD650  !!
   
  So many tubes ---- so little time


----------



## MickeyVee

I don't hear a SQ difference (though I'm probably not the best judge and don't have golden ears) but I before the relay, the max volume I could go with my HD700s was about 10 o'clock. Now I can go to about 12 or 1. Appreciate the extra volume control but did email Jason to ask if this was normal.
   
  Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> has anyone confirmed if there is a difference in SQ with and without the relay? I left mine without because Jason mentioned the less things in the way the better.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Just an update on some recent tubes I acquired.  I bought my Lyr with absolutely fantastic sound Apmerex Orange Globe (6DJ8), A Frames.  I wanted to get a backup pair, so I got Amperex Orange Globe O-getter types from Mercedesman.  I don't know if this is universal or just unique to my tubes, but I find the O-getters to have ever so slightly more refined and laid back bass and highs than the A frames.  The A-frames will wow you a little more at first listen, but the O-getters are just a tad tighter.
> 
> Interestingly, I find my recently acquire Russian 6H23n-EB tubes have a little more mid-bass and nicely rolled off highs ---- they make my HD600 sound like an HD650  !!
> 
> So many tubes ---- so little time


 
  I've been wanting to get a set of "A" frames.  Good feedback, thanks.
  I have some 60' D getters coming.
   
  Need to break the Amprex spell ....  Perhaps a set of nice Mullards.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





bsn said:


> I have not used the Baby Booties, but they may be an option.  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bbootie.htm You can e-mail Herbie's Audio Lab, and ask them which they suggest for your application.  He usually replies in a few hours.


 
   
  So, because I like the Sorbothane feet I got on Amazon for only like $20. (for 16 of them!), I just didn't like that they can leave a mark on your wood table, I decided to cut small squares of plastic wrap and covered each of them with that. 
   
  They look like wrapped little black licorice candies now, probably not the most elegant solution; but you don't really see them normally and it seems to work as the plastic wrap sticks to them.


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I've been wanting to get a set of "A" frames.  Good feedback, thanks.
> I have some 60' D getters coming.
> 
> Need to break the Amprex spell ....  Perhaps a set of nice Mullards.


 
   
  You're in for a treat....listening to these now from mercedesman....
   
 AMPEREX HP 6922 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE GOLD PIN D GTR 1960 HOLY GRAIL MATCH NOS   
  Holy cow......very nice indeed......breaking them in nice and easy now and standing them on top of the tubemonger socket savers....I think it gives it a cool looking vibe hah.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> You're in for a treat....listening to these now from mercedesman....
> 
> AMPEREX HP 6922 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE GOLD PIN D GTR 1960 HOLY GRAIL MATCH NOS
> Holy cow......very nice indeed......breaking them in nice and easy now and standing them on top of the tubemonger socket savers....I think it gives it a cool looking vibe hah.


 
  The same ones w/o the HP are on the way from mercedesman.   Should have them in 2 days...
  I am soooo glad you posted that you like them.....  Can't wait.
   
  PS:
   
  Oh yah.  Got my Tubemonger extenders in..... they're a tad higher than the Chinese pair in the avatar photo.  Much better build.


----------



## sensui123

Got my cognac here with the LCD-2 paired with the Lyr and rolling those tubes with Diana Krall......I don't think it gets much better than this.  You will be floored.  It's a step up from the O getter Amperex tubes USN CEP imo.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> Got my cognac here with the LCD-2 paired with the Lyr and rolling those tubes with Diana Krall......I don't think it gets much better than this.  You will be floored.  It's a step up from the O getter Amperex tubes USN CEP imo.


 
  I have access to every single one of those items.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  WAIT  !!!
  Did you say you were rolling with Diana Krall ???


----------



## sensui123

Haha yes....I love to use her music for demo material and jazz is especially a great pairing for Audeze.  You're in for a treat for sure...wish I could listen longer but gotta get up early for work. =\


----------



## 333jeffery

I use the Cowboy Bebop soundtrack for testing audio equipment. It's well recorded, and a great mix of jazz, rock, pop, electronic and even some metal. Plus, it has the vocals of Mai Yamane and Tulivu-Donna Cumberbatch in it, which is just fine for testing tubes.


----------



## Mediahound

I knew this would happen eventually; I fell asleep last night with the Lyr on...


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I knew this would happen eventually; I fell asleep last night with the Lyr on...


 
   
  I hate it when that happens!! I get up the next morning chastising myself for loosing 7 hours on my favorite tubes.


----------



## woodie

I'm currently using the Amperex 6DJ8 in my Lyr with my 650 and love what I'm getting. But I'm looking now to upgrade to either the LCD2 or HD800. Would this tube still be one of the better choices, or are there better choices for the LCD2/HD800 from the Lyr?
   
  Bifrost DAC if that makes a difference


----------



## 290752

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I read the eBay listing a couple times and could not find a Date.
> I always question listings that don't provide a date of mfg.
> 
> There are plenty of listings that do.
> ...


 
  I contacted the seller yesterday and the tubes are made in 1971.
   
  BTW why do you need a date for them?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





kepler28nm said:


> I contacted the seller yesterday and the tubes are made in 1971.
> 
> BTW why do you need a date for them?


 
  The sonics vary with the year of mfg.
  Guys, correct me if I'm wrong here.
   
  Tubes made in the late 50's to early 70's tend to have a better sound.  
  Late 50's to mid 60's seem to sound better. (Don't ask me why)
  Tubes are valued based upon:
  Brand: Mullard, Amprex, Telefunken, Siemans, RCA, Valvo, etc.
  Country of mfg Holland, Germany, USA, UK.
  What mfg. plant produced them.
  Sub-Tube type, grade  PQ, SQ, Caa, USN-CPE, CV2492 or CV2493
  What type of "getter"  "D", halo, large halo, dimple getter.
  Is the tube "NOS" (New Old Stock), NIB (New In Box), Used.
  All of the above play a part in  determining the sound and the cost of the tube.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





woodie said:


> I'm currently using the Amperex 6DJ8 in my Lyr with my 650 and love what I'm getting. But I'm looking now to upgrade to either the LCD2 or HD800. Would this tube still be one of the better choices, or are there better choices for the LCD2/HD800 from the Lyr?
> 
> Bifrost DAC if that makes a difference


 
  Yo Wood,
   
  I traveled the same path.  I like the tube with my 650's and I like it with my LCD2's  
  Qualifier: 1969 Orange Globe Amprex and 1969 USN-CPE USA.
   
  I'd need more info to give you my 2 cents.


----------



## Iamnothim




----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


>


 
   
  Did you put it in your freezer? 
   
  BTW, how are you liking your Furman power conditioner? I'm tempted to get one, did you notice a difference in sound quality? Also, does it fit under the bifrost nicely be any chance?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Did you put it in your freezer?
> 
> BTW, how are you liking your Furman power conditioner? I'm tempted to get one, did you notice a difference in sound quality? Also, does it fit under the bifrost nicely be any chance?


 
  Cheap Photoshop parlor trick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Actually a bunch O' stuff to get the effect.
   
  Furman AC 215A
  I love the box.  It's built very well and there's far more than surge suppression going on.  It's a power filter as well. Built for a purpose not a  flashy marketing retail product.
  Do I notice a sonic difference...  I didn't exactly listen for one or do a comparison.  But between the Herbies extenders, Herbies Halo thingies, and the Furman my kit is sounding un freak'n believable.
   
  Will it fit below.....  Yes, maybe.
  Centered it's 1/4" short on each side and an inch shallow.  If you position your new rubber feet correctly, it should work.


----------



## Iamnothim

My labels are smudged.  Aarghh


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> My labels are smudged.  Aarghh


 
   
  I'm finding that I can take off the inked lettering on tubes just by rubbing with my finger. Is that normal? Is it supposed to come off that easy?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Yep


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

iamnothim said:


> The sonics vary with the year of mfg.
> Guys, correct me if I'm wrong here.
> 
> Tubes made in the late 50's to early 70's tend to have a better sound.
> Late 50's to mid 60's seem to sound better. (Don't ask me why)




Apparently old tubes use more rare earth minerals in the plates and sheilds, they supposedly make the tube sound better. That's why the grey sheild tubes are worth more than the chrome/silver sheild versions of the same tube. The tubes basically got watered down as far as minerials goes as time went by with less and less.
I wonder if the old tubes with black plates have a higher mineral consentration or just a different minerial type, might look it up later


----------



## 290752

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> The sonics vary with the year of mfg.
> Guys, correct me if I'm wrong here.
> 
> Tubes made in the late 50's to early 70's tend to have a better sound.
> ...


 
  I see. So if the tubes have grey plates + getter pan + halo getters + mfg 1971+ made in USA and has Amperex logo, is it worth $200 a matched pair?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/110990134300?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

kepler28nm said:


> I see. So if the tubes have grey plates + getter pan + halo getters + mfg 1971+ made in USA and has Amperex logo, is it worth $200 a matched pair?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/110990134300?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649




None of those things are uncommon for 70s amperex tubes. However what is good about them is that they are closely matched, nos and jan version of the tube. Which is U.S joint army/navy and had a high guide line for manufacturing. It's like the common valve(cv) the British used for Mullards. So I can see those going for 180 a pair.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I'm finding that I can take off the inked lettering on tubes just by rubbing with my finger. Is that normal? Is it supposed to come off that easy?


 
  Inks on older tubes tend to rub off easily.  I believe the more permanent inks came around in the early seventies (or late sixties).  But it is normal.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Thanks for schooling me on jan


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Inks on older tubes tend to rub off easily.  I believe the more permanent inks came around in the early seventies (or late sixties).  But it is normal.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Maybe I'll stop using windex


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Furman AC 215A
> I love the box.  It's built very well and there's far more than surge suppression going on.  It's a power filter as well. Built for a purpose not a  flashy marketing retail product.
> Do I notice a sonic difference...  I didn't exactly listen for one or do a comparison.  But between the Herbies extenders, Herbies Halo thingies, and the Furman my kit is sounding un freak'n believable.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks. Do you plug your computer into it also, or just the DAC and amp?


----------



## Iamnothim

mediahound said:


> Thanks. Do you plug your computer into it also, or just the DAC and amp?



I decided to isolate the audio gear. The Lyr and Bifrost consume both outlets of the AC 215a.
Rather than add a power strip off the AC 215a, I plugged the Furmam into a power strip that has the computer and peripherals. 

My thinking is the audio is the most sensitive. The Furman would clean anything coming from the power strip. It's an APC Pro surge strip.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I decided to isolate the audio gear. The Lyr and Bifrost consume both outlets of the AC 215a.
> Rather than add a power strip off the AC 215a, I plugged the Furmam into a power strip that has the computer and peripherals.
> My thinking is the audio is the most sensitive. The Furman would clean anything coming from the power strip. It's an APC Pro surge strip.


 
  Yeah, you are probably right, makes sense.


----------



## Iamnothim




----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


>


 
  Awesome pic!


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> The Siemens PCC88 have a fantastic sound stage, not as bass heavy as the Orange Globes, crisper  highs then the Amperex and a bit less mid range.


 
   
  Thanks. I'm liking what I'm hearing with the Siemens so far. Soundstage is wider than the orange globes, I think I hear a bit more separation between the instruments, yet the bass and highs seem about equal to me.


----------



## HK_sends

I finally got the tubes from Slovenia that I bought on Ebay.  They were exactly what I thought they might be...Lorenz (Stuttgart) 3-Mica PCC88s.  The seller only listed them as Lorenz PCC88s but the pictures were of 3-mica tubes...color me HAPPY!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  If I see any more listed by the same seller, I'll let you know.  He said he might have a couple more to put up for bid.
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Thanks. I'm liking what I'm hearing with the Siemens so far. Soundstage is wider than the orange globes, I think I hear a bit more separation between the instruments, yet the bass and highs seem about equal to me.


 
  No problem,  if any of you guys need any info on a tube set you are interested in feel free to PM me and I can do my layman's best to describe the sound. I have amassed a solid collection of about 70 or so sets of the some of the more  popular ones for the Lyr.  I found a tube hunter at a local Flea-market who took a liking to  me and gave me some fantastic deals.
   
  I cant emphasis enough, if you come across any E188CC LA RADIOTECHNIQUE they are ridiculous good.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> I cant emphasis enough, if you come across any E188CC LA RADIOTECHNIQUE they are ridiculous good.


 
  Cool. What's the sound signature on those? Are they even better than Mullards?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I finally got the tubes from Slovenia that I bought on Ebay.  They were exactly what I thought they might be...Lorenz (Stuttgart) 3-Mica PCC88s.  The seller only listed them as Lorenz PCC88s but the pictures were of 3-mica tubes...color me HAPPY!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  How do you tell if they are 3-Mica?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> How do you tell if they are 3-Mica?


 
  http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_3MIGray_Shield_Germany_p/1057.htm
   
  The biggest indicator is the shield below the "O" getter is made of a translucent material while the traditional Lorenz have shields made of metal.  It's really the only way to tell.
   




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Photo courtesy of E-Bay
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hk I don't know if this is an indicator or not but it has the same black logo as the 3mica we got from tubemonger awhile back, difference being a metal 3rd mica vs a clear mica. Did you have a listen yet?


----------



## 333jeffery

I got a full refund from the guy on Ebay that sold me the fake "E288CC" tubes. Unfortunately, he has listed them for sale again, still marked as E288CC! If you come across some tubes marked "Siemens&Halskie E288CC" in red ink on the tubes, do not buy them. I don't know what type of tube they actually are, but they sure don't work in the Lyr.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Hk I don't know if this is an indicator or not but it has the same black logo as the 3mica we got from tubemonger awhile back, difference being a metal 3rd mica vs a clear mica. Did you have a listen yet?


 
  OH YEAH!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I had a listen...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  The labels do match the ones we got from Tubemonger, and the three-mica I got from them had a clear mica as well.
   
  I'm pretty sure they are the real deal!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> I got a full refund from the guy on Ebay that sold me the fake "E288CC" tubes. Unfortunately, he has listed them for sale again, still marked as E288CC! If you come across some tubes marked "Siemens&Halskie E288CC" in red ink on the tubes, do not buy them. I don't know what type of tube they actually are, but they sure don't work in the Lyr.


 
   
  Are these the tubes?
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Siemens-Halske-CCa-E88CC-6922-Grey-Shield-HOLY-GRAILS-MATCHED-PAIR-1959-/230895585580?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35c273092c


----------



## 333jeffery

These are the ones: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E288CC-SIEMENS-HALSKE-NOS-TUBES-GOLD-PINS-CODES-3-MICA-/400368283221?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d37cf2e55
   
  The seller was nice about refunding my money, but he shouldn't be selling these as E288CC tubes. They won't work.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_3MIGray_Shield_Germany_p/1057.htm
> 
> The biggest indicator is the shield below the "O" getter is made of a translucent material while the traditional Lorenz have shields made of metal.  It's really the only way to tell.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> These are the ones: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E288CC-SIEMENS-HALSKE-NOS-TUBES-GOLD-PINS-CODES-3-MICA-/400368283221?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d37cf2e55
> 
> The seller was nice about refunding my money, but he shouldn't be selling these as E288CC tubes. They won't work.


 
  Have you or anyone else been able to get E288CC tubes to work in the Lyr before?
  Just curious...I've used E188CCs but not E288CCs.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Cool. What's the sound signature on those? Are they even better than Mullards?


 
  They have warm mids and still retain fantastic low end and just haunting vocal reproduction. They are exceptionally good with the HE-500/400 and the HD650/600. I have a set of  Holland made Mullard E188cc that I like very much, they are much better.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> They have warm mids and still retain fantastic low end and just haunting vocal reproduction. They are exceptionally good with the HE-500/400 and the HD650/600. I have a set of  Holland made Mullard E188cc that I like very much, they are much better.


 
   
  Nice. 
   
  BTW, when a tube starts going bad, what do people generally do? Since one will go out before the other, do you just throw away the pair?


----------



## Iamnothim

I'm considering a Valhalla. 
Does anyone have any experience with one?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

It's an OTL type amp so if you have or are getting some high impedance cans it would probably sound pretty good but for orthos you probably want to stick to the lyr


----------



## 333jeffery

HK, the E288CC can be substituted for 6DJ8 tubes. I have several brands of these tubes, and they work fine in the Lyr. The Telefunken E288cc's sound as good as the Amperex USN tubes that folks here rave about.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> HK, the E288CC can be substituted for 6DJ8 tubes. I have several brands of these tubes, and they work fine in the Lyr. The Telefunken E288cc's sound as good as the Amperex USN tubes that folks here rave about.


 
  Great!  Thanks for the info!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

dailydoseofdaly said:


> It's an OTL type amp so if you have or are getting some high impedance cans it would probably sound pretty but for orthos you probably want to stick to the lyr



Thanks. 
I thought I'd try something new for my wife's kit. At least both would use ECC88's
On a completely different tangent I'm looking at the Bottlehead Crack. I've wanted to build a kit since I was a kid.


----------



## bsn

Interesting....  At the moment, I am running a set of Mid 60's 6DJ8 Bugle Boys in my Lyr amp and a set of 1952 Raytheon 6AK5W in my Pan Am amp.  I'm feeding both amps with a Benchmark DAC1 USB and using a set of AKG K702 cans.  To my ears, they sound fairly close to identical with these particular tube combinations and the same source. The Lyr might have a bit wider and slightly more distant sound stage and the Pan Am is just a bit more front and center.  One thing is for sure, both of these tube amps make the rather cold and analytical Benchmark DAC sound wonderful.  I cannot stand the Benchmark DAC on my main stereo rig, but I love it paired with my tube headphone amps.


----------



## drumsnspace

Hey guys,
   
  I currently have a pair of HE-500 and after lots of careful deliberation on an amp/ dac combo I think I'll be going with the Lyr/ Bifrost, although my budget could allow for more.
   
  In light of me going well under my intended budget, I think I'd like to spoil myself with a pair of some top notch tubes. My music tastes are all over the place, all forms of rock and jazz, lots of instrumental music (including hip hop), some pop, classical music, bluegrass and pretty much anything relating to those genres.
   
  Is there a standout pair of tubes that can be had for <$400 a pair (absolute _max _for my tube budget, and they'd have to be _unbelievably _good for me to pay that much) that matches my set up and music taste?
   
  I would greatly appreciate links to reputable sites and I welcome all recommendations.
   
  Currently considering:
   
  Mullard CV4109 NOS - Matched Pair
  Siemens E188CC/ 7803
  Amperex 6922/ E88CC - Late 50s pair
  Siemens CCa - West German production
  Telefunken 6DJ8/ E88CC - Matched pair
   
  anything else that would be good for my budget? looking for the BEST!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I currently have a pair of HE-500 and after lots of careful deliberation on an amp/ dac combo I think I'll be going with the Lyr/ Bifrost, although my budget could allow for more.
> 
> ...


 
  I don't suspect you'll get a consensus answer to your question.
  There is no answer to which one will sound best.
   It's like muscle cars.  Dodge or Chevy?
   
  I've only got one of them (tubes) and I like them very much.
  Would I like to hear the others?  Damn straight.
   
  You will have the same problem.
  No matter which ones you pick, you will be haunted by not knowing how the other 4 will sound and you will end up buying all of them.


----------



## 333jeffery

Drums, try the Amperex CEP USN tubes, there are several pairs on ebay right now. They sound very good with the music you have listed.


----------



## Iamnothim

333jeffery said:


> Drums, try the Amperex CEP USN tubes, there are several pairs on ebay right now. They sound very good with the music you have listed.




I can't disagree with that since I own them. 
Strangely, I only own Amprex. 

That said, the 1960 "D" getters are the Mac Daddies of my collection.


----------



## lyrill

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Just picked up a pair from them, *Platinum grade, cryo added.*
> 
> If I could get Harry Potter to enchant them, would have got that as well, LOL.
> 
> Also, got a pair of the *Tungsram 6922 as well.*


 
  i have not really checked this thread, but i might come off as someone who question a gamer why he spend 100$ on a mouse---why spend more than 50$ on a pair of tube for an amp that cost less tha 500$, is it really not diminishing return and is it really worth it? what kind of cost and return graph am i looking at ? a hill that stops? exponential?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





lyrill said:


> i have not really checked this thread, but i might come off as someone who question a gamer why he spend 100$ on a mouse---why spend more than 50$ on a pair of tube for an amp that cost less tha 500$, is it really not diminishing return and is it really worth it? what kind of cost and return graph am i looking at ? a hill that stops? exponential?


 
  My answer..
  It's the hobby, within a hobby.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





lyrill said:


> i have not really checked this thread, but i might come off as someone who question a gamer why he spend 100$ on a mouse---why spend more than 50$ on a pair of tube for an amp that cost less tha 500$, is it really not diminishing return and is it really worth it? what kind of cost and return graph am i looking at ? a hill that stops? exponential?


 
  Because the amp allows tube rolling, thus tweaking the sound to your preference. That is, if you do so choose to roll 'em
   
  Diminished returns are fast reached either way.
   
  Other than that, there's no reason to. Which is why they made the O2. Er, Magni.


----------



## lyrill

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Because the amp allows tube rolling, thus tweaking the sound to your preference. That is, if you do so choose to roll 'em
> 
> Diminished returns are fast reached either way.
> 
> Other than that, there's no reason to. Which is why they made the O2. Er, Magni.


 
  nice quote from tyll


----------



## jsplice

Does anyone find the treble of the Lyr to be a bit "abrasive" with the stock GE tubes?  I noticed the same thing with the Gold Lion tubes as well, although it seems the GEs are better in that regard.  I'm starting to think it might just be a trait of the solid state amplifier stage, and a shortcoming of the amp itself.  Has anyone noticed this and been able to rectify this with the proper tubes?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> Does anyone find the treble of the Lyr to be a bit "abrasive" with the stock GE tubes?  I noticed the same thing with the Gold Lion tubes as well, although it seems the GEs are better in that regard.  I'm starting to think it might just be a trait of the solid state amplifier stage, and a shortcoming of the amp itself.  Has anyone noticed this and been able to rectify this with the proper tubes?


 
  Vintage tubes certainly mellowed out my Lyr.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> Does anyone find the treble of the Lyr to be a bit "abrasive" with the stock GE tubes?  I noticed the same thing with the Gold Lion tubes as well, although it seems the GEs are better in that regard.  I'm starting to think it might just be a trait of the solid state amplifier stage, and a shortcoming of the amp itself.  Has anyone noticed this and been able to rectify this with the proper tubes?


 
  The "stock" GE and Gold Lion tubes are more recently manufactured tubes.  Having spoken with several people that like them, they do mellow out after a while but they need a lot of hours (then again for all I know, the listeners may have just been getting used to them).  I still believe the tube makes all the difference as the Lorenz I am using are not abrasive in any way...I would call them smooth and warm.  The problem I have is I used to have LCD-3's a while back and now (being a victim of unforeseen financial issues) I have the LCD-2's.  There's a bit of difference in their sound because the LCD-3 have better range extension and tend to fill out the bass and treble more than the LCD-2's.  But I do find the LCD-2's extremely engaging with the right tubes and a more than suitable set o' cans until I can get some LCD-3's again (or 4's, or 5's...).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Please remember that all this is IMHO and YMMV...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers and Merry Christmas (or whatever holiday you observe)!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I don't suspect you'll get a consensus answer to your question.
> There is no answer to which one will sound best.
> It's like muscle cars.  Dodge or Chevy?
> 
> ...


 
   
  yeah i figure it will pan out like that, but why not start out hot? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> Drums, try the Amperex CEP USN tubes, there are several pairs on ebay right now. They sound very good with the music you have listed.


 
   
  the opinion is much appreciated, my questions are frequently overlooked on these forums. maybe it's my lack of seniority?
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I can't disagree with that since I own them.
> Strangely, I only own Amprex.
> That said, the 1960 "D" getters are the Mac Daddies of my collection.


 
  constantly hear good things about Amperex, perhaps i'll go that route.
   
  Siemens CCa seem to be regarded extremely highly, anyone wanna chime in on those comparatively speaking to any of the other tubes i've got listed?
   
  reputable websites/ sellers for tubes?


----------



## lyrill

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> Does anyone find the treble of the Lyr to be a bit "abrasive" with the stock GE tubes?  I noticed the same thing with the Gold Lion tubes as well, although it seems the GEs are better in that regard.  I'm starting to think it might just be a trait of the solid state amplifier stage, and a shortcoming of the amp itself.  Has anyone noticed this and been able to rectify this with the proper tubes?


 
  what exactly do u mean abrasive? i use jj e88cc from amazon, not curved by schiit


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> Does anyone find the treble of the Lyr to be a bit "abrasive" with the stock GE tubes?  I noticed the same thing with the Gold Lion tubes as well, although it seems the GEs are better in that regard.  I'm starting to think it might just be a trait of the solid state amplifier stage, and a shortcoming of the amp itself.  Has anyone noticed this and been able to rectify this with the proper tubes?


 
  My Lyr came from Audio Advisor with the NOS GEs.  I noticed an immediate improvement not just in treble, but across the board when I use either the Amperex Bugle Boys or the National /* *Matsu$hita 6922 tubes rolled into the amp. If your not happy with the treble give a different pair of tubes a try.


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> Drums, try the Amperex CEP USN tubes, there are several pairs on ebay right now. They sound very good with the music you have listed.


 

 Swooped the NIB set from Mercedesman  thanks for the rec, can't wait to try em


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Great choice!! As it happens I'm listening to them now and they are the best I've ever heard...


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ Great choice!! As it happens I'm listening to them now and they are the best I've ever heard...


 

 love to hear positive comments on a purchase like that! thanks for the input, Matt! they came in today, i'd love to give my impressions, but alas my Lyr (and Bifrost) still haven't shipped... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 having a tough time waiting this one out. site says ships late december, but jason seems to allude to a bit longer of a wait. we shall see.
   
  i get this strange feeling this is the start of a long, expensive sub-hobby... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  on a side note, anyone got some songs that really make the Bifrost > Lyr > HE-500 combo really sing? i'd love to put em through their paces when everything arrives.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> on a side note, anyone got some songs that really make the Bifrost > Lyr > HE-500 combo really sing? i'd love to put em through their paces when everything arrives.


 
   
  Blues: Smokin' Joe Kubek and B'Nois King, "Standing In My Door" (Roadhouse Research, 2003)
   
  Jazz:  Miles Davis, "Flamenco Sketches" (Kind of Blue, 1959)
   
  Rock:  Porcupine Tree, "Trains" (In Absentia, 2002)
            
  Acoustic:  Alice in Chains, "Rooster" (MTV Unplugged, 1996)
   
  Metal:  Tool, "Right in Two" (10,000 Days, 2006)
   
   
  A few off the top of my head, too many others to list.  Enjoy!


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Man, there is just too much to choose from and depends on what kind of music you like. It's hard to pass up on AIC: MTv Unplugged from the above list. 
   
  Enjoy!!


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Blues: Smokin' Joe Kubek and B'Nois King, "Standing In My Door" (Roadhouse Research, 2003)
> 
> Jazz:  Miles Davis, "Flamenco Sketches" (Kind of Blue, 1959)
> 
> ...


 
   
  thanks OldSkool, looks like some good variety. much appreciated!
   
       Quote:


matttcg said:


> ^^ Man, there is just too much to choose from and depends on what kind of music you like. It's hard to pass up on AIC: MTv Unplugged from the above list.
> 
> Enjoy!!


 
  sweet! i'll definitely check into it, thank ya! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'm open to genres, but i guess i'm pretty picky when it gets down to artists. always enjoy something new though.
   
  hope everyone's having a good start to their day!


----------



## MattTCG

Another recording that really shows that setup well is The Civil Wars: Barton Hollow


----------



## 333jeffery

The Cowboy Bebop soundtrack is great to put audio equipment through it's paces. And, Seven Moons by Robin Trower and Jack Bruce sounds wonderful on tube amps.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> Swooped the NIB set from Mercedesman  thanks for the rec, can't wait to try em


 
   
 IMO

 again

 IMO

 You are not allowed to listen to the USN-CEP's until you have a reference point.   Say…. 1 day listening to the stock tubes.

 Otherwise you will be banned from the "Schiit Lyr - The *tube rolling thread*"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  

 Remember NIB/NOS need time to settle in too.


----------



## sensui123

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> The Cowboy Bebop soundtrack is great to put audio equipment through it's paces. And, Seven Moons by Robin Trower and Jack Bruce sounds wonderful on tube amps.


 
   
  Gonna take you up on that suggestion jefferey, ordered the soundtracks already and am waiting for them....always been a fan of the show before and was reminded the nice mix of music from the anime.


----------



## Iamnothim

Okie Dokie,
  
 I picked up from the thread that "USN" is United States Navy"  duh.   and that "JAN" is Joint Army Navy.
 So it makes sense that mil spec tubes are the best grade.  US/UK/Germany whatever.
  
 But what does CEP mean?  As in "USN-CEP"
  
 Wikipedia has it as a military acronym for *CEP* – Circular error of probability, but it's has to do with munitions.  I can't see a correlation between munitions and electronic vacuum tubes.  There are a bunch of other CEP's out there but they are even further from vacuum tubes.
  
 Oracles of the thread, edjamakate me.


----------



## HK_sends

I believe it stands for "Commercial Electronic Products" based on an excert from a AudiogoN forum thread I found.  As with everything on the internet, take this with a grain of salt...
   
  "[size=x-small]*04-25-02: Brf*[/size]
 [size=larger][size=small]These tubes sound awesome. I have a Sonic Frontiers Line 3SE with 10 NOS Valvo 6922. I replaced all 10 Valvos with the Amperex 7308s, and what a difference, especially in the deep bass and a more fleshed out natural midrange. The soundstage is huge with these tubes. I generally experience a subtle change when tube rolling, but this change was dramatic. Some tell me that changing all 10 tubes in my pre-amp with 7308 is overkill (instead of changing just the first two positions), but what the heck, you only live once.

 USN-CEP - That is the older Navy code for Amperex Electronic Products. "C" is for Commercial. The remaining letter or letters identify a company:

 CG = General Electric
 CW = Western Electric
 CRC = RCA (Radio Corporation)
 CRP = Raytheon (Raytheon Production Corp)
 CTL = Tung-Sol"[/size][/size]

 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> .........
> on a side note, anyone got some songs that really make the Bifrost > Lyr > HE-500 combo really sing? i'd love to put em through their paces when everything arrives.


 
   
 I will pile on at the risk of morphing the thread into music appreciation…. but only once.  (My tastes are pedestrian)
 My fav's:
  
 Buddy Guy & Jr. Wells "Alone and Acoustic" Sally Mae.  flac 44.1kHz/16bit
  
 TrondheimSolistene "Mozart Violin Concertos"  flac 192kHz/24bit
  
 Johnny Cash "The Man Comes Around" CD to ALAC
  
 Elton John "Madman Across theWater"  flac 96kHz/24bit
  
 Grateful Dead "American Beauty"  Box of Rain   flac 96kHz/24bit
  
 Rolling Stones "12x5"  Confessin' the Blues   flac 88kHz/24bit


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I believe it stands for "Commercial Electronic Products" based on an excert from a AudiogoN forum thread I found.  As with everything on the internet, take this with a grain of salt...
> 
> "[size=x-small]*04-25-02: Brf*[/size]
> [size=larger][size=small]These tubes sound awesome. I have a Sonic Frontiers Line 3SE with 10 NOS Valvo 6922. I replaced all 10 Valvos with the Amperex 7308s, and what a difference, especially in the deep bass and a more fleshed out natural midrange. The soundstage is huge with these tubes. I generally experience a subtle change when tube rolling, but this change was dramatic. Some tell me that changing all 10 tubes in my pre-amp with 7308 is overkill (instead of changing just the first two positions), but what the heck, you only live once.
> ...


 
  Cool !
   
  I love this stuff.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





bsn said:


> My Lyr came from Audio Advisor with the NOS GEs.  I noticed an immediate improvement not just in treble, but across the board when I use either the Amperex Bugle Boys or the National /* *Matsu$hita 6922 tubes rolled into the amp. If your not happy with the treble give a different pair of tubes a try.


 
  I'm going to be trying out some Amperex Orange Globe's here next week, so we'll see how those do.
   
  Quote: 





lyrill said:


> what exactly do u mean abrasive? i use jj e88cc from amazon, not curved by schiit


 
  I just mean that at times it can sound a bit edgy and grainy, and lacking detail in the treble.  Don't get me wrong, it doesn't sound terrible, but there's room for improvement in its current setup (with NOS GE tubes).


----------



## Iamnothim

Just ordered a second Bifrost / Lyr combo for my wife's setup.
  I gave her the LCD2's for Christmas.    I have the HD650's......for now....  I'm trying to like them.
  This time the Bifrost has USB.
   
  I looked and looked and looked at other choices in lower and upper price ranges just to have a different setup.
  I looked at Bursen and NuForce etc. other popular Head Gear models .....
   
  I couldn't get excited, so I stuck with a winner.
  Now I guess I get to buy more tubes...


----------



## tedkalaw

Hey guys,
   
  Got my Lyr in the mail yesterday and pairing it with my LCD2r2s. Sounds quite wonderful, but then I discovered this thread and, well...
   
  Any suggestions for tubes sub $100 for a PAIR that'll get me more bass?  Thinking about orange globes or something similar; possibly even stretch a little and get the 6922s that mercedesman has on ebay.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





tedkalaw said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Got my Lyr in the mail yesterday and pairing it with my LCD2r2s. Sounds quite wonderful, but then I discovered this thread and, well...
> 
> Any suggestions for tubes sub $100 for a PAIR that'll get me more bass?  Thinking about orange globes or something similar; possibly even stretch a little and get the 6922s that mercedesman has on ebay.


 
  Used Orange Globes or Bugle Boy's are nice.  Used, mid 1960's about $70 
   
  These 1971's, Used, $60 might be a nice place to start.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-LABEL-AFRAME-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1971-MATCHED-SWEET-TONE-71A1-/221168188887?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item337ea6bdd7
   
  Don't get too hung up on NOS / NIB,  used tubes can sound very nice when purchased by a reputable vendor that backs his products.  Like mercedesman, he's understanding and easy to deal with.
  You can cook the tubes during the warranty period to make sure they are solid.


----------



## tedkalaw

Awesome, those are exactly the ones I was thinking to start. Thanks!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





tedkalaw said:


> Awesome, those are exactly the ones I was thinking to start. Thanks!


 
  Don't bust my chops if you don't like them.
  I'm a dufus on a forum


----------



## swmtnbiker

Aren't we all?


----------



## BMBROWN911

Hey people, whats a good place to start for a noob tube roller? I've been using  the NOS tubes that come with the Lyr now for over a year and would like to try something better all around. Just looking to get a taste of what some of the better tubes are. Without going to equisite right off the batt what is a logical first step or tube to try for someone in my situation? Any suggestions are appreciated!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bmbrown911 said:


> Hey people, whats a good place to start for a noob tube roller? I've been using  the NOS tubes that come with the Lyr now for over a year and would like to try something better all around. Just looking to get a taste of what some of the better tubes are. Without going to equisite right off the batt what is a logical first step or tube to try for someone in my situation? Any suggestions are appreciated!


 
  Check Post #4756
   
   
 Gotta get you "accessorized".
  
 Buy these:
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib-cos.htm


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bmbrown911 said:


> Hey people, whats a good place to start for a noob tube roller? I've been using  the NOS tubes that come with the Lyr now for over a year and would like to try something better all around. Just looking to get a taste of what some of the better tubes are. Without going to equisite right off the batt what is a logical first step or tube to try for someone in my situation? Any suggestions are appreciated!


 
  Since you've listened to stock for over a year, you are the perfect person to get into tube rolling.
   
  I've said a bunch of times, it's counterintuitive to think that 50 year old electronics can sound better than something built today.
  You are in for a pleasant surprise.  Another victim of the hobby within a hobby.


----------



## BMBROWN911

I have a feeling that when I make that first purchase of a new set of tubes there will probably be many more to follow...lol!


----------



## swmtnbiker

It's like crack, and just as expensive.


----------



## bsn

Yes, it is like crack. The FedEx Home Delivery guy just brought some accessories to help fuel my NOS tube rolling addiction. I just gotta be careful not to clean the labels off the tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The kit says it can be used to clean the amps tube sockets, but I'm not going there. I am just going to use this to clean the pins on the tubes.


----------



## swmtnbiker

HAHAHA!!! Maybe I need one of those kits. Just picked up a pair of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321010435508&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160

One pair left. These are phenomenal with the Lyr and HD650.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> HAHAHA!!! Maybe I need one of those kits. Just picked up a pair of these:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321010435508&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
> One pair left. These are phenomenal with the Lyr and HD650.


 
  Yes, its hard to go wrong with the Amperex tubes.  They have the Tube Survival kits on sale at Music Direct right now.  http://www.musicdirect.com/p-1158-caig-vacuum-tube-survival-kit.aspx


----------



## caracara08

anyone have MercedesMan's email? I want to contact him direct for tubes to save him money on ebay fees. 
   
  you can pm it to me if youd like. thanks


----------



## swmtnbiker

Contact him through his eBay store and ask?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> HAHAHA!!! Maybe I need one of those kits. Just picked up a pair of these:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321010435508&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
> One pair left. These are phenomenal with the Lyr and HD650.


 
  I kind like these 68's  They're "O" getters.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-SWEET-TONE-68B2-/221171506379?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item337ed95ccb
   
  I have 1969 dimple getters and I love them..... Lyr & HD650
   
  EDIT:   I have not heard "A" frames.   Soooo many tubes.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> HAHAHA!!! Maybe I need one of those kits. Just picked up a pair of these:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321010435508&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
> One pair left. These are phenomenal with the Lyr and HD650.


 
   
  I ordered a pair of those too. (1971 dimple A-frame Amperex)


----------



## swmtnbiker

iamnothim said:


> I kind like these 68's  They're "O" getters.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-SWEET-TONE-68B2-/221171506379?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item337ed95ccb
> 
> I have 1969 dimple getters and I love them..... Lyr & HD650
> ...




Tempting. Veeeeery tempting...


----------



## swmtnbiker

solserenade said:


> I ordered a pair of those too. (1971 dimple A-frame Amperex)




I hope they click with you the way they've clicked with me. If so you're in for some nice ear candy. I've got relatives coming into town this evening for several days, and my thoughts are bouncing back and forth between being happy to see them and realizing that I won't be able to spend much time at all with my rig! "I gotta feva!"



[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/BjsUf_oIgp0[/VIDEO]


----------



## gmahler2u

Hi...I'm getting into tube amp...yes i'm getting new valhalla that can tube rolling.  The question is that is Valhalla same as Lyr's tube or similar?
  If I want to get amperex 6dj8, can I use it in Valhalla? or similar types of tubes perhaps..
   
  Thanks


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Yes same 9 pin mini 6volt tube family the lyr uses, ie 6dj8,6922,7308,and cca's


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hi...I'm getting into tube amp...yes i'm getting new valhalla that can tube rolling.  The question is that is Valhalla same as Lyr's tube or similar?
> If *I want to get amperex 6dj8, can I use it in Valhalla?* or similar types of tubes perhaps..
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  Yes - A quote from Schitt: _"Now, in addition to the 6N1P, you can run all 6DJ8 type tubes, including the NOS GE 6BZ7s, 6922s, E88CCs, and 6N23P"_
   
_............_
  Hi, this will be my first experience with rolling tubes in the Valhalla. I ordered a pair of Amperex. (It is the shorter tubes -- pre-amp I believe -- toward the front of the amp, that are swapped usually ...... perhaps on the Valhalla there will be experimentation with the power tubes too, by adventurous individuals)
   
  If you haven't seen this, there's a thread announcing the Valhalla tube rolling:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/617351/schiit-valhalla-now-with-100-more-rollability
   
  And here is the official Valhalla Tube Rolling Thread:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/619910/schiit-valhalla-tube-rolling-thread
   
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hi...I'm getting into tube amp...yes i'm getting new valhalla that can tube rolling.  The question is that is Valhalla same as Lyr's tube or similar?
> If I want to get amperex 6dj8, can I use it in Valhalla? or similar types of tubes perhaps..
> 
> Thanks


 
  The returns with Valhalla and tube rolling is not nearly as good, different, or satisfying as Lyr. IMO.
   
Why are you choosing Valhalla over Lyr? Already ordered. Ask Mr.Tom for any advice should you have questions or need suggestions. 
  He's been all over that thing.


----------



## hifimiami

Hi, I'm about to order a Lyr specifically to drive Hifiman He-500  I'm confused as to what pair of tubes I should start at $100 per pair? Should I order Amperex, Matsu 6922,Tesla, Siemens, Mullard......Please advise.


----------



## Iamnothim

That's a tough question.
  Hopefully a HiFiman owner will reply.
   
  This thread mostly focuses on vintage tubes.
  I'll get corrected if I'm wrong..... but only the Mullard, Siemans, Amprex, and Telefunken are in the vintage category.
  Late 50's to mid 70's
   
  Of those a used pair of Amprex Orange Globes or Bugle Boys can be had under $100.
  They are quite nice, but I can't speak for Hifiman's
  The Germans and the Brits are usually north of $100.
   
  Go back and read about 40 pages of this thread and you'll find a lot of good opinions/feedback.
  There are quite a few very knowledgable folks on this thread that have a huge inventory of tubes and cans.
  I think you are wise to start under $100 and don't be too afraid of used tubes, esp. if you buy from a good vender.
   
  Lots of folks, including me, shop with "mercedesman" on eBay.  He's got very good customer service.
http://stores.ebay.com/TUBEHUNTER?_rdc=1
   
  These are other good sellers
http://www.tubemonger.com
   
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Some others off the top of my head from 50-70s
Brimar,Valvo,Mazda,Rca,Admiral,GE,Lorenz,and Philips made a ton of vintage tubes and changed their name depending on the country they were sent, here is a quote from upscale audio,"Philips bought Amperex to market in the U.S.A., Adzam for South Africa and Belgium, Pope for South America, and Mullard for England"


----------



## Iamnothim

What did I say !


----------



## Iamnothim

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Some others off the top of my head from 50-70s
> Brimar,Valvo,Mazda,Rca,Admiral,GE,Lorenz,and Philips made a ton of vintage tubes and changed their name depending on the country they were sent, here is a quote from upscale audio,"Philips bought Amperex to market in the U.S.A., Adzam for South Africa and Belgium, Pope for South America, and Mullard for England"




We're the Mullard UK plants, example Mitchum", actually Philips owned?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

iamnothim said:


> We're the Mullard UK plants, example Mitchum", actually Philips owned?




So Mullard was founded in 1920, the BBC was formed so they went into partnership with Philips in 1923 to keep up, then sold out completely to Phillips 1927. 

So yeah the Mitchum plant 1928, and Blackburn late 30s where completely owned by Phillips

Site http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullard


----------



## hifimiami

Thanks for your suggestions and tube history data. I have narrowed my choices to 1.) Matsuhista/National PCC88/7DJ8 from Upscale Audio Cryogenic, Platinum Grade Matched Pair &86 + $12 shipping 2.)Amperex PQ6922 matched pair $129 from Mercedesman 3.) Amperex 6922 Bugle Boy $179 from Mercedesman
   
  Tubemonger has the Matsuhista/National matched pair for $80 shipped. I would like to start with SQ that will provide a sample of the Lyr capabilities and than in the future I can upgrade.
  Thanks again for your comments!
[size=1.8em]_  _[/size]


----------



## 333jeffery

If you want a cheap but nice starter tube, try the Telefunken PCC85. At $25 a tube, it's hard to beat.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

333jeffery said:


> If you want a cheap but nice starter tube, try the Telefunken PCC85. At $25 a tube, it's hard to beat.




Huh that's a 9v tube


----------



## 333jeffery

Yup and it works great in the Lyr.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Cool I hadn't tried that big of voltage difference but the lyr is a current mode auto biasing amp so I guess it covers it. 
Anyway I'm heading out to the festivities, Happy New Year Everyone!


----------



## Oskari

That's rather serious heater under voltage. Not something biasing is supposed to fix.


----------



## HK_sends

Hey, if he's happy, the tube sounds good to him, and nothing bursts into flame...that's all that matters...right? (as long as he doesn't void his warranty
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
   
  Cheers to a Happy New Year!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> The returns with Valhalla and tube rolling is not nearly as good, different, or satisfying as Lyr. IMO.


 
   
  What tubes have you tried with your Valhalla?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> What tubes have you tried with your Valhalla?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 Yes....I'm curious what tubes do you use?  I just got the valhalla and I have full of questions about tube rolling.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hi...
   
  What is soo different about Amperex orange label and bugle boy?  sound sig? or different light color? or different year?
   
  THanks


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hi...
> 
> What is soo different about Amperex orange label and bugle boy?  sound sig? or different light color? or different year?
> 
> THanks


 
  It comes down to where they were made (Holland), the materials used, and the year when assessing a purchase of tubes(at least to me) .For instance,  I have a matched pair of PQ gold pin Amperex that are USA made that have a much different sonic signature then the Orange globes and the Bugle Boys.
   
  My absolute favorite tubes I have experienced thus far are French made (E188cc) Mazda, Dario Miniwatt, and the just unbelievable sounding LA Radiotechniques all three of those just take the Lyr to another level to my ears.
   
  BTW if you are considering the Orange Globes they are great for the money!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> It comes down to where they were made (Holland), the materials used, and the year when assessing a purchase of tubes(at least to me) .For instance,  I have a matched pair of PQ gold pin Amperex that are USA made that have a much different sonic signature then the Orange globes and the Bugle Boys.
> 
> My absolute favorite tubes I have experienced thus far are French made (E188cc) Mazda, Dario Miniwatt, and the just unbelievable sounding LA Radiotechniques all three of those just take the Lyr to another level to my ears.
> 
> BTW if you are considering the Orange Globes they are great for the money!


 

 Yes i'm definitely considering the orange globes and near future I'm considering Amperex 6299 too...but that's later in the road...
   
  Thank you for your info..


----------



## HK_sends

As some of the old hands who followed this thread know, other than the Matsu***ta 6922 tubes, I have never been fond of the 6922/E88CC/CCA types.  I always thought the mids and treble were too emphasized and the bass a bit weak.  That's why I always preferred the PCC88/ECC88 types.  That is, until now.  I finally got a chance to try some Philips JAN 6922 tubes:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MATCHED-NOS-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-TUBES-PHILIPS-w-BONUS-DAMPERS-COUNTERPOINT-/350665933509?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D4623679430533677213%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D350665933509%26
   
  ...and have been quite impressed with their overall sound and even their bass extension.  Call me a fan...I had to get a second set.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> As some of the old hands who followed this thread know, other than the Matsu***ta 6922 tubes, I have never been fond of the 6922/E88CC/CCA types.  I always thought the mids and treble were too emphasized and the bass a bit weak.  That's why I always preferred the PCC88/ECC88 types.  That is, until now.  I finally got a chance to try some Philips JAN 6922 tubes:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MATCHED-NOS-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-TUBES-PHILIPS-w-BONUS-DAMPERS-COUNTERPOINT-/350665933509?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D4623679430533677213%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D350665933509%26
> 
> ...


 
  Hey HK !
   
  Interesting.
  I've never owned CCA's or E88's  But I was planning to get some.
  I appreciate reading your op.
   
  Thanks for the Philips JAN NOS link.
  I saw $53 and just punched Buy it Now.
  Why not?
   
   
  I just noticed they have a set that is "balanced" too.
  Should I upgrade?
   
  I've only seen an option for "matched"


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Hey HK !
> 
> Interesting.
> I've never owned CCA's or E88's  But I was planning to get some.
> ...


 
  For the Lyr?  No, you don't need balanced.  I believe they are talking about matching both triodes in each tube and making sure they match the values in the other tube.  Since the Lyr only uses one triode per channel, as long as the first triode in one tube matches the first triode in the other tube, it won't matter if the second triodes match closely.  And, if you use Tubemongers triode flipper then it will be important if the second triode in each tube matches as well.  Confused yet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Hope that helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - The reason a lot of us wanted to get as many Lorenz PCC88 tubes as we could is because the Lorenz tend to sound like the Siemens CCa tubes...but with added base and instrument separation.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> For the Lyr?  No, you don't need balanced.  I believe they are talking about matching both triodes in each tube and making sure they match the values in the other tube.  Since the Lyr only uses one triode per channel, as long as the first triode in one tube matches the first triode in the other tube, it won't matter if the second triodes match closely.  And, if you use Tubemongers triode flipper then it will be important if the second triode in each tube matches as well.  Confused yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Outstanding information.
  And yes, the whole triode thing hasn't sunk in.  It's on my list to read more.
  Right up there with understanding year month numbering schemes.
   
  Sandy sent me a message pitching, what else, E88CC's, NOS Gold Pins.  $230
  Are those the E88CC's types that you don't particularly care for?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Outstanding information.
> And yes, the whole triode thing hasn't sunk in.  It's on my list to read more.
> Right up there with understanding year month numbering schemes.
> 
> ...


 
  I've listened to a variety of E88CCs including some in that price range and I never really cared for any of them.  I found the ECC88s had more bass weight than the E88CCs (see what I mean about confusing?).  I know there are some folks that swear by E88CCs but I could never keep them in my amp very long.  Now that being said, our ears are different and you might end up liking them.  Remember, I wasn't a fan of 6922s either until I heard these (the Matsu's were the odd exception).  I will say this...as far as these and the Matsu's go...after I got these today, I see no reason to chase down a set of Matsu's anymore.
   
  My standard disclaimer: All this is IMHO and YMMV...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

HK
Thanks for the honest follow up response. I've got enough $250 tubes for now. I'm going to resist temptation and look forward to a $60 pair that'll probably sound great. 

It's more than buying brand names. It also about finding those gems. 
Thanks.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> HK
> Thanks for the honest follow up response. I've got enough $250 tubes for now. I'm going to resist temptation and look forward to a $60 pair that'll probably sound great.
> It's more than buying brand names. *It also about finding those gems.*
> Thanks.


 
  That's how Misterrogers (I'm pretty sure it was him) found the Lorenz...looking for reasonably priced tubes that sounded great.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## gmahler2u

has anyone using Muallard 6201 vintage?  If you're using it right now what do you think?  sound?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks


----------



## gmahler2u

I have question to all of you...I have tube cd player and I'm adding valhalla.  I just found out that cd player is tube rollable. 
  my question is that Do i need match with the valhalla? or use it different tubes?
   
  Thanks


----------



## eyeoftheruby

Content Removed


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





eyeoftheruby said:


> I've just received my Lyr and have one quick question. After about an hour of playing music consistently, one of the tubes is running noticeably hotter than the other. Is this normal behavior, or does this reflect a mismatched pair? It's the tube closest to the back on the amp that's running hot.


 
  Did you check the temperature of the tubes themselves?  Or is the back tube just glowing brighter?  There's a orange led in the Lyr that makes the back tube look like it's glowing more.  Try swapping the tubes to see if it gets hot in the front.  If it does then the tube may be bad and you can send an e-mail to Schiit so they can send you some replacement tubes.  I hope things work out ok for you.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## eyeoftheruby

Content Removed


----------



## eyeoftheruby

Content Removed


----------



## Slowfade

Quote: 





eyeoftheruby said:


> After switching the tubes around the back one still gets significantly hotter than the front. Also, FWIW, before and after the switch, when I'm not playing any music and crank the volume all the way up I can tap each tube with my fingernail and the back one sounds louder. I'm almost wondering if the back tube is receiving more current than the front. Although, I'm not hearing any channel imbalance.


 
   
   
  I would contact Schitt. Sounds wrong to me. They have pretty awesome service, though I'm sure they are post Christmas slammed.


----------



## MrScary

oskari said:


> That's rather serious heater under voltage. Not something biasing is supposed to fix.




With Tube amps of all sorts it does not matter if you run them with lower voltage in the Lyr's case that would be 6.3V now it may not sound good or it may have no impact the Lorenz Stugarts one of my favorite tubes is I think 7 volts --- A real world example is - I usually manually under bias one Of my guitar Amp's (they do not autobias) to make the tubes last longer they do not last long as they are huge 6L6's and run so damned hot its like watching a nuclear bomb... You can even run higher voltage I do that in one of my amps to 
get a sweeter spot but tube life will suffer... Since the Lyr is auto biasing if it sounds good hell the tube should last 15,000 hours if ya get lucky


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





eyeoftheruby said:


> After switching the tubes around the back one still gets significantly hotter than the front. Also, FWIW, before and after the switch, when I'm not playing any music and crank the volume all the way up I can tap each tube with my fingernail and the back one sounds louder. I'm almost wondering if the back tube is receiving more current than the front. Although, I'm not hearing any channel imbalance.


 
  I agree with Slowfade, you should contact Schiit and see if you can send the amp back to have it checked.  I've always had good service from them but they do get busy from time to time so you may have to be a bit patient with them.  Jason and Co. have always done their best to provide great support.  Just e-mail "support@schiit.com" and tell them what the problem is and what you did to check it, then see what they recommend.
   
  Good Luck and Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

I am really enjoying these Philips JAN 6922 tubes!  They are warm yet detailed and really pair well with the latest version of LCD-2s.  There was a little issue of sibilance when I started using them but it smoothed out very quickly (since my LCD-2s don't even have 100 hours on them yet, it could have been the headphones).  But overall, these are very musical tubes!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

hk_sends said:


> I am really enjoying these Philips JAN 6922 tubes!  They are warm yet detailed and really pair well with the latest version of LCD-2s.  There was a little issue of sibilance when I started using them but it smoothed out very quickly (since my LCD-2s don't even have 100 hours on them yet, it could have been the headphones).  But overall, these are very musical tubes!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...




So odd ! Mine came in today and I plugged them in 15 minutes ago.
They are nice.
I've have a Ravi Shankar album that takes them for a workout:


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> So odd ! Mine came in today and I plugged them in 15 minutes ago.
> They are nice.
> I've have a Ravi Shankar album that takes them for a workout:


 
  Why is that odd?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Because I am odd......

(edit)

Im thinkin these tubes may very well overtake the Orange Globes as the best bang-for-the-buck tube.

Just say'n


----------



## l0rdr0ck

I have the JAN Philips 6922s, but i think the BEST bang for the buck is
   
Tesla ECC88 6DJ8 1960s NOS (NOT JJ) - M. Pairs MINT NOS - Rožnov Prod
   
  Should be 30 bucks for a matched pair 
  I believe they sound better than the JAN Philips


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Because I am odd......
> (edit)
> Im thinkin these tubes may very well overtake the Orange Globes as the best bang-for-the-buck tube.
> Just say'n


 
  Except they bumped the price to $64 on e-bay.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Still worth it, I would say.
   
  Nothing wrong with being odd, I can attest to that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





l0rdr0ck said:


> I have the JAN Philips 6922s, but i think the BEST bang for the buck is
> 
> Tesla ECC88 6DJ8 1960s NOS (NOT JJ) - M. Pairs MINT NOS - Rožnov Prod
> 
> ...


 
  I had a couple sets of those before and they are really good sounding tubes.  I like the Phillips tubes at the moment because the sound is not typical of the 6922 (to me at least...bass-lite) sound and just pairs well with the music and equipment I have at the moment.  Plus, I'm looking for reasons _NOT_ to spend another $3k in tubes for my Lyr. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## l0rdr0ck

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I had a couple sets of those before and they are really good sounding tubes.  I like the Phillips tubes at the moment because the sound is not typical of the 6922 (to me at least...bass-lite) sound and just pairs well with the music and equipment I have at the moment.  Plus, I'm looking for reasons _NOT_ to spend another $3k in tubes for my Lyr.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I would totally agree on that analysis of the two tubes.  Definitely the Tesla has more bass tonality.
   
  For what it is worth,
  I have the Russian set of tubes from Schiit and they have almost no bass response very airy.


----------



## Iamnothim

hk_sends said:


> I had a couple sets of those before and they are really good sounding tubes.  I like the Phillips tubes at the moment because the sound is not typical of the 6922 (to me at least...bass-lite) sound and just pairs well with the music and equipment I have at the moment.  Plus, I'm looking for reasons _NOT_ to spend another $3k in tubes for my Lyr.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dibs on hand-me-downs


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Dibs on hand-me-downs


 
  Unfortunately, you are a little late to the party...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I had to sell my "stuff" awhile back to cover some unexpected financial issues.  I'm just now restoring my system and only have five sets of tubes.  Two Lorenz, Two Philips JAN, and the GE 6DJ8s that came with the Lyr.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

hk_sends said:


> Unfortunately, you are a little late to the party...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'll be upbeat. 
Congrats on the new tubes 

These are very nice tubes...
I'm going listen for a day or so then roll up to my top shelf stuff. 

I have a very difficult time identifying the difference between tubes... Probably need more experience. I did stumble on something interesting. I like the releases of old 60's studio demo recordings. Dylan, George Harrison, The Beatles. The tracks are raw bare bone gems. 

It turns out the early studio demos on The Beatles "Anthology" collection magnifys the difference I'm my tubes.

I was listening to other albums with some clear top RCA's and they were great. Bring up Anthology and the vocals were harsh, very hard to listen to. Pop in the USA "D" getters and the vocals are very smooth.

Have you come across this?


----------



## HK_sends

I haven't tried listening to old studio demo recordings to listen for differences in tubes.  I have a few favorite tracks I am really familiar with to include tracks from Mannheim Steamroller's Fresh Aire 1-8, Moody Blues, Alan Parsons Project, and Electric Light Orchestra.  I have listened to some of their tracks for years on various equipment and can hear differences between the tubes.  But that is a good idea...I have to dig up some of my anthology albums and see if they have any demo material.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

hk_sends said:


> I haven't tried listening to old studio demo recordings to listen for differences in tubes.  I have a few favorite tracks I am really familiar with to include tracks from Mannheim Steamroller's Fresh Aire 1-8, Moody Blues, Alan Parsons Project, and Electric Light Orchestra.  I have listened to some of their tracks for years on various equipment and can hear differences between the tubes.  But that is a good idea...I have to dig up some of my anthology albums and see if they have any demo material.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...



Not so much Dylan, Harrison, or CSN. But the vocals in the Beatles Anthology disc 1 change dramatically. It think it's because the music is so simple. There's only a few different sounds. 

Buddy Guy & Jr Wells "Alone and Acoustic" are very simple songs as well. Acoustic guitar, harp and vocals. Either set of tubes sound good. There is something with the Beatles album 

BTW, if you like Chicago Blues, that's your ticket on the L


----------



## HK_sends

I think part of it was because the earlier tracks were recorded in mono with the later tracks in true stereo.  But you're right, they did start with simple songs and got more complex and willing to experiment the longer they were together.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I am really enjoying these Philips JAN 6922 tubes!  They are warm yet detailed and really pair well with the latest version of LCD-2s.  There was a little issue of sibilance when I started using them but it smoothed out very quickly (since my LCD-2s don't even have 100 hours on them yet, it could have been the headphones).  But overall, these are very musical tubes!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Because I am odd......
> (edit)
> Im thinkin these tubes may very well overtake the Orange Globes as the best bang-for-the-buck tube.
> Just say'n


 
   
  I got these same Philps tubes in as well.  They ARE very refined, but I sitll prefer the OGs (at least as THE set to demo what it's all about to friends and curious onlookers.  Subject to change.)


----------



## Iamnothim

Hello Ya'll
   
  Do any vendors discount new Audeze LCD2 rev 2's  ?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Hello Ya'll
> 
> Do any vendors discount new Audeze LCD2 rev 2's  ?


 
  I haven't found any that do, but Headroom Audio offered free shipping when I got mine...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I haven't found any that do, but Headroom Audio offered free shipping when I got mine...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Cool...
  I think I have them bookmarked.
   
  Used rev 2's last about 5 minutes when they are listed......  and the price is soo close to new, it doesn't make sense.
   
  I just took a haircut on my HD 650's


----------



## HK_sends

Yeah, I went with Headroom to save on shipping and sales tax.  The chunk of money I saved was worth it.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

hk_sends said:


> Yeah, I went with Headroom to save on shipping and sales tax.  The chunk of money I saved ...




Yeah, I'm tired of subsidizing The People's Republic of California.


----------



## Iamnothim

LCD2 Rev 2's
   
  Is there any reason I should or shouldn't purchase the Bamboo version?
  Sonic wise.
   
  Granted the Rosewood looks great, probably better resale too.
  But Bamboo is one of the hardest woods on the planet.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> LCD2 Rev 2's
> 
> Is there any reason I should or shouldn't purchase the Bamboo version?
> Sonic wise.
> ...


 
  There are no sonic differences. Although, I swear my Bamboo did sound better than the old Rosewood.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> There are no sonic differences. Although, I swear my Bamboo did sound better than the old Rosewood.


 
  Thanks.
   
  I know Rosewood is more popular and my Rosewood rev 1's are beautiful, but I'm going to order them in Bamboo to be different.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I know Rosewood is more popular and my Rosewood rev 1's are beautiful, but I'm going to order them in Bamboo to be different.


 
  Just remember that affects the resale value.


----------



## Iamnothim

First, I'm looking forward to hearing the difference between the rev1's and 2's.
   
  Question.
  Does an aftermarket cable really make a difference?
  If so, I'm thinking Toxic....
  It's got to be 3m because I'm large and clumsy.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> First, I'm looking forward to hearing the difference between the rev1's and 2's.
> 
> Question.
> Does an aftermarket cable really make a difference?
> ...


 
  Danger, Danger, Danger, cable debate approaching!
   
  Whether or not cables make a differences is up to the unexplainable science or hardworking placebo.
  There are however many other benefits to aftermarket choices.
   
  Customized length, looks, comfort and the fact that they're quiet.
   
  I buy my Q cables because they're elegant and feel nice on the skin.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Question.
> Does an aftermarket cable really make a difference?


 
   
  I say no, because they have little to no engineering behind them, whereas the stock cable does.
   
  FWIW, the stock Audeze cable is designed similarly to the Stax stock cable, which no one who has a $5,000. Stax headphone seems to complain about:


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I say no, because they have little to no engineering behind them, whereas the stock cable does.
> 
> FWIW, the stock* Audeze cable is designed similarly to the Stax stock cable*, *which no one who has a $5,000. Stax headphone seems to complain about:*


 
   
  Not really. Apart from the flat looks...
   
  Stax users don't use aftermarket cables because they don't work (they'd be destroyed) considering the high voltage.
   
  Meaning, it's unsafe.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Danger, Danger, Danger, cable debate approaching!
> 
> Whether or not cables make a differences is up to the unexplainable science or hardworking placebo.
> There are however many other benefits to aftermarket choices.
> ...


 
  Nailed it again.
  Voodoo science.  (This is my last post on this topic)
   
  Ascetics, you bet.
  I think the custom cable that came with my rev 1's is a "Q"
  Too short.  But silky smooth and I use it when I'm not in squirm mode.
  Looks Top Shelf.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Nailed it again.
> Voodoo science.  (This is my last post on this topic)
> 
> Ascetics, you bet.
> ...


 
  Honestly, who cares if there's no audible difference (I mean, there might be, or IS, er, it's a crapshoot). We're in a niche hobby as it is and it's always nice to more-so further personalize your gear.
   
  Give it some flare and life!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I say no, because they have little to no engineering behind them, whereas the stock cable does.
> 
> FWIW, the stock Audeze cable is designed similarly to the Stax stock cable, which no one who has a $5,000. Stax headphone seems to complain about:


 
  Bingo.
  I'm using the stock LCD2 cable right now.
  I need to be.....


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Honestly, who cares if there's no audible difference (I mean, there might be, or IS, er, it's a crapshoot). We're in a niche hobby as it is and it's always nice to more-so further personalize your gear.
> 
> Give it some flare and life!


 
  I would not bet Against me upgrading the cable......  I have no common sense when it comes to these matters.
   
  edit:
  Case in point:  What thread am I on...


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Honestly, who cares if there's no audible difference (I mean, there might be, or IS, er, it's a crapshoot). We're in a niche hobby as it is and it's always nice to more-so further personalize your gear.
> 
> Give it some flare and life!


 
  I'd argue that a lot of aftermarket cables actually make the headphones sound worse than the stock cables. Often they take away something desirable about the the sound. This was my experience. 
   
  It's pretty easy for someone who knows how to make cables to just make a bunch of cables and sell them. But, do they  do any testing/engineering of them so said cable matches the headphones? Not typically.
   
  You can bet the headphone manufacturer does test their supplied cables, and even likely incorporates the cable design into the overall design process of the headphones.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I'd argue that a lot of aftermarket cables actually make the headphones sound worse than the stock cables. Often they take away something desirable about the the sound. This was my experience.
> 
> It's pretty easy for someone who knows how to make cables to just make a bunch of cables and sell them. But, do they  do any testing of them so said cable matches the headphones? Not typically.
> 
> You can bet the headphone manufacturer does test their supplied cables, and even likely incorporates the cable design into the overall design process of the headphones.


 
  So you believe cables make a difference and that's fine. I'd argue that perhaps you had a bad experience. Or many.
   
  Which aftermarket cables sounded worse than the stock?
   
  No argument, there are many hacks out there doing it for the cash. There are however plenty of other's out there that do care
  about the product they put out, as well as having experience in the industry for many of years to back it up.
  Meaning, they know what they're doing.
   
  I believe you're just throwing out generalized statements (Kind of like how you did with comparing the Audeze stock cable and Stax).
   
  How do you know if they test their cables to synergize or not.
  If you look at the many different options out there from say, DHC, for example, you'd see there's a ton of offerings.
   
  But perhaps you're right, Peter just throws bunches/varieties of cables together. So in effect, it is a crapshoot.


----------



## Mediahound

Btw, Justin from HeadAmp agrees with me:
   
   
   


> the Stax cable is made that way for a reason, for low capacitance.  aftermarket cables often don't have any engineering to support the designs.  i think the stock Audeze cable is well made and there is no reason to change it.


 
   
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/574616/the-audeze-lcd-2-ortho-thread-new/3600#post_8910621


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Btw, Justin from HeadAmp agrees with me:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You missed the point.
   
  With your thinking you could just take again, say, DHC cables and stick it on the Stax.
  Which you can't.
   
  We can have disagreeing opinons on the issue, Justin doesn't believe in cable as is.
  (he recommends plain TecNec) comparatively to boutique cable.
   
  Also, there's no objective evidence that supports cable's making a difference. (SORRY!).
   
  So it's simply going to differ person to person.
   
  I was just correcting you on why the Stax don't use aftermarket cables.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> You missed the point.


 
   
  Uh no. I said the Stax cables are a similar design to the Audeze cables and no one complains about the design of them. IOW, this design is a good design that doesn't need to be changed out on either headphone.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Uh no. I said the Stax cables are a similar design to the Audeze cables and no one complains about the design of them. IOW, this design is a good design that doesn't need to be changed out on either headphone.


 
  Corrected. However from my perspective you implied it.
  "which no one who has a $5,000. Stax headphone seems to complain about".
   
  There are no options for aftermarket cabling for Stax. Period.
   
  Stax have specific requirement for capacitance, hence the design. 
   
  However the same doesn't apply for LCD's. Hence choices.
   
  If I implied that the design was flawed or anything similar, I apologize.
   
  Just because Stax makes a design a certain way doesn't make it ideally applicable across the board. And contrary designs aren't inherently less efficient.
   
  LCD's or any other planar/dynamic are not Stax. They do not fundamentally need that design.
   
   
  Hence again, not being able to stick DHC cables onto a Stax headphone.
   
  And again, there's no evidence to suggest cables make a difference anyway.
   
  Semantic of sorts.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Um, wasn't this the Lyr tube rolling thread at some point in time? Just checkin'.


----------



## HK_sends

I have no desire to enter this argument.  However:
   

  This picture shows the rosewood most naturally...
   

   

   

  The Rosewood is darker in real life than the pictures.  The flash lightens it up.
   

   

  Q-Audio Cable, Brown Silk...Steve Eddy is now only offering cables in silk...
   
  I'll let you decide...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends
   
  PS - And to stay on topic...Boy, I sure still like the Philipis JAN 6922 tubes in my Lyr!


----------



## l0rdr0ck

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have no desire to enter this argument.  However:
> 
> <removed cuz i am jealous of you and your LCDs>
> 
> ...


 
   
  So i just switched mine back in.  They do sound nice and smooth. Great for jazz and ambient.


----------



## Iamnothim

OMG...
   
  I am so sorry I started this.....
  Can't we all just get along..... and go back to tubes.
   
  Again
  I apologize profusely.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> OMG...
> 
> I am so sorry I started this.....
> Can't we all just get along..... and go back to tubes.
> ...


 
  Just call me the thread-derailer. Carry on.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Just call me the thread-derailer. Carry on.


 
  The silk cables look bitch'n
   
  Tristan,
  Dog !
  I checked out your YouTube reviews.... very professional.
  2 x props.
   
  Dead serious, great reviews w/o being able to hear the products.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





l0rdr0ck said:


> So i just switched mine back in.  They do sound nice and smooth. Great for jazz and ambient.


 
  I had to take mine out.
  Although I liked them, I was getting fatigue.
  Went back to the D's and now  it's silky smooth.
  Might just be my hearing


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have no desire to enter this argument.  However:
> 
> 
> This picture shows the rosewood most naturally...
> ...


 
  Soooo.
  You wear your cans while you're cooking meth...


----------



## HK_sends

I can neither confirm nor deny my culinary skills...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I can neither confirm nor deny my culinary skills...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I was worried I was pushing your sense of humor to Max Q


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

What stand is that HK?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> What stand is that HK?


 
  Custer's


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> What stand is that HK?


 
   
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Custer's


 
  ROFLMAO!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  That was classic!
   
  It's the Audio Technica Headphone stand (although not the last).  Before I got the LCD-2's I bought a pair of Audio-Technica ATH-W3000ANV headphones and the stand to go with them.  Unfortunately, the headphones wouldn't fit my elephant ears...but I kept the stand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

hk_sends said:


> It's the Audio Technica Headphone stand (although not the last).  Before I got the LCD-2's I bought a pair of Audio-Technica ATH-W3000ANV headphones and the stand to go with them.  Unfortunately, the headphones wouldn't fit my elephant ears...but I kept the stand.



Nice I dig it



iamnothim said:


> Custer's



Well done sir


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  My new Rosewood (latest iteration) sounds better than my old Rosewood (early rev.2).
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have no desire to enter this argument.  However:
> 
> 
> This picture shows the rosewood most naturally...
> ...


 
   
  Rosewood FTW!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> My new Rosewood (latest iteration) sounds better than my old Rosewood (early rev.2).
> 
> 
> Rosewood FTW!


 
  Actually, I think mine does too.  Maybe they did more driver tweaking when they were refining this new design.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

olor1n said:


> My new Rosewood (latest iteration) sounds better than my old Rosewood (early rev.2).
> 
> 
> Rosewood FTW!




My goodness, such language! Er, I mean such abbreviations!

Where will the tufted rose sniffers sleep?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

iamnothim said:


> My goodness, such language! Er, I mean such abbreviations!
> 
> Where will the tufted rose sniffers sleep?




FTW- ForThe Win, easly confused with other not so friendly abbreviations
I think the rose sniffers can sleep soundly


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> FTW- ForThe Win, easly confused with other not so friend abbreviations
> I think the rose sniffers can sleep soundly


 
  oh


----------



## swmtnbiker

Hey, has anyone rolled any new glass in their Lyr lately? Anyone? Beuller?


----------



## Iamnothim

swmtnbiker said:


> Hey, has anyone rolled any new glass in their Lyr lately? Anyone? Beuller?




Only the JAN Philips a couple days ago.
At first I loved them Very clear and defined. Then after a while it was , What's going on?
I would describe them as too intense. I had to get them out.

I'll give them another chance, but I'm enjoying my D getters.


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Hey, has anyone rolled any new glass in their Lyr lately? Anyone? Beuller?


 
  well my Lyr came in today, tried the new GEs Schiit was offering for all of, eh 30 minutes? and curiosity killed the tube roller. got my Amperex USN-CEP 6922's in now. and WOW WHAT is this liquid beauty pouring out of my cans... this is an experience i have no words for. other than i feel warm and tingly all over. note that one tube is slightly microphonic, kinda disappointed but that's the gamble of NOS tubes, or anything analog for that matter. the tube dampers DO help, they seem to take it from a high, constant ring to a lower, less audible hum. not entirely eliminating anything, no turning water into wine or anything but certainly helpful in reducing in microphonics. just from previous knowledge of the tracks i'm listening to, the Amperex seem to be very mids forward. good extension in the bass. it's rich and wholesome, but doesn't have that "wow" factor. they are detailed, but don't have an incredible amount of air to them. much my heavier rock (post rock, math rock, etc) seems muddy. i'm factoring the fact that a lot of these bands operate on a very minimalist budget and i'm sure audiophile-grade recordings aren't the top thing on their list of priorities. one thing it does really well is clean rock like The Police, Men at Work, etc and chillwave sounds unbelievably "tangible" on this set up. analog synths are crunchy, full, vibrant, warm, gooey, phat audio goodness. fuzz effects and the accenting vocals are accentuated well and complete the overall sound of this tube. imo, the search will continue. i would like something "cleaner" with more balance. maybe some siemens CCa's or telefunkens... want: more air, more neutrality in sound. i'll continue browsing this thread, much to the dismay of my wallet, looking for something that meets my desires.


----------



## Iamnothim

drumsnspace said:


> well my Lyr came in today, tried the new GEs Schiit was offering for all of, eh 30 minutes? and curiosity killed the tube roller. got my Amperex USN-CEP 6922's in now. and WOW WHAT is this liquid beauty pouring out of my cans... this is an experience i have no words for. other than i feel warm and tingly all over.



yup


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> well my Lyr came in today, tried the new GEs Schiit was offering for all of, eh 30 minutes? and curiosity killed the tube roller. got my Amperex USN-CEP 6922's in now. and WOW WHAT is this liquid beauty pouring out of my cans... this is an experience i have no words for. other than i feel warm and tingly all over.


 

 is that tubby love making experience?


----------



## gmahler2u

btw how much did you pay for amperex?
  Thanks


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> is that tubby love making experience?


 
  heh, that was the initial shock from going from uncomfortable ER-4P's and stock laptop speakers to the set up listed in my sig. the detail is unreal, but i think i'll keep searching for "the one tube to rule them all." i'd like more air between the instruments and a more neutral depiction of the frequencies represented in each song. 
   
  EDIT: so i'm gonna redact my muddiness comment. just rolled through a better mastered post rock test song that i love and the detail is astounding. perhaps i'm warming up to these tubes. is this tube "settling in" thing legitimate or is it anything widely debated topic with no scientific data behind it? they seem to be opening up. sorry if i jumped the gun on my review too soon, we'll call that one "Initial Impressions" for all concerned parties and i'll closely monitor any changes they present.


----------



## Fearless1

Here are a set of the tubes that I have raved endlessly about, I am not sure if they are as good as mine(nos, cryo) but if they are 2/3rds as good they would still be the best I have heard
   
  .http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-E188CC-RTC-GOLD-PIN-NOS-NIB-TUBE-LOT-1-/261151201993?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D4804155852274070612%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D261151201993%26


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> heh, that was the initial shock from going from uncomfortable ER-4P's and stock laptop speakers to the set up listed in my sig. the detail is unreal, but i think i'll keep searching for "the one tube to rule them all." i'd like more air between the instruments and a more neutral depiction of the frequencies represented in each song.
> 
> EDIT: so i'm gonna redact my muddiness comment. just rolled through a better mastered post rock test song that i love and the detail is astounding. perhaps i'm warming up to these tubes. is this tube "settling in" thing legitimate or is it anything widely debated topic with no scientific data behind it? they seem to be opening up. sorry if i jumped the gun on my review too soon, we'll call that one "Initial Impressions" for all concerned parties and i'll closely monitor any changes they present.


 
  I can't speak for anyone else but in my experience, yes, tubes can settle (burn) in...smoothing their sound, opening up the soundstage, etc.  I've never had a set of tubes go from good sounding to bad, just good to better.  Whether it's my ear or the tube, the effects were noticeable, just not drastic.
   
  Again, that's just my experience.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## l0rdr0ck

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> heh, that was the initial shock from going from uncomfortable ER-4P's and stock laptop speakers to the set up listed in my sig. the detail is unreal, but i think i'll keep searching for "the one tube to rule them all." i'd like more air between the instruments and a more neutral depiction of the frequencies represented in each song.
> 
> EDIT: so i'm gonna redact my muddiness comment. just rolled through a better mastered post rock test song that i love and the detail is astounding. perhaps i'm warming up to these tubes. is this tube "settling in" thing legitimate or is it anything widely debated topic with no scientific data behind it? they seem to be opening up. sorry if i jumped the gun on my review too soon, we'll call that one "Initial Impressions" for all concerned parties and i'll closely monitor any changes they present.


 
   
  If you just got the tubes, they do need some burn in,  secondly it takes a while for the Lyr to warm up.
   
  From my testing, I do think the 7v Tubes PCC88 7dj8, seem to have more "air" and "separation", these are usually a steal
  since very few designs call for a 6dj7 compatible 7v tube.  Anyways.
   
  Once again try the 30$  1960s Tesla's from tubemonger.  they are very good and a true bargain.


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





l0rdr0ck said:


> If you just got the tubes, they do need some burn in,  secondly it takes a while for the Lyr to warm up.
> 
> From my testing, I do think the 7v Tubes PCC88 7dj8, seem to have more "air" and "separation", these are usually a steal
> since very few designs call for a 6dj7 compatible 7v tube.  Anyways.
> ...


 
  thank you for the recommendation. and the tubes are definitely opening up. they are NIB that I just opened up last night. they have maybe 8 hours so far. 
   
  Can anyone confirm or deny microphonics being displayed initially and then going away? Had an issue with a midly microphonic tube that now, even when I tap the tube is as quiet as it's silent mate in the next slot. thanks everyone! this thread is a really great source of info and i'm excited to contribute what i find.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> thank you for the recommendation. and the tubes are definitely opening up. they are NIB that I just opened up last night. they have maybe 8 hours so far.
> 
> Can anyone confirm or deny microphonics being displayed initially and then going away? Had an issue with a midly microphonic tube that now, even when I tap the tube is as quiet as it's silent mate in the next slot. thanks everyone! this thread is a really great source of info and i'm excited to contribute what i find.


 
  If it ain't broke....  
  This is alchemy, voodoo, and luck.
  Science ... Science ?
  I can't think of one befit from taping a tube. At least a working one.   Anyone ?
   
  Cook the tubes at 350, baste after 15 minutes, glow to taste.
  It's the Rumplestilskin effect.


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> If it ain't broke....
> This is alchemy, voodoo, and luck.
> Science ... Science ?
> I can't think of one befit from taping a tube. At least a working one.   Anyone ?
> ...


 
  yeah, i was doing my anti-microphonic shaman chant but i was unsure if it was that or if there was a scientific explanation, or at least accounts from the other tube rollers in this thread.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





> O riginally Posted by *drumsnspace* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> yeah, i was doing my anti-microphonic shaman chant but i was unsure if it was that or if there was a scientific explanation, or at least accounts from the other tube rollers in this thread.


 
  just me be'n a wise acre.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Have I tapped on my tubes?....... What do you think.
  Hell ya.


----------



## l0rdr0ck

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> thank you for the recommendation. and the tubes are definitely opening up. they are NIB that I just opened up last night. they have maybe 8 hours so far.
> 
> Can anyone confirm or deny microphonics being displayed initially and then going away? Had an issue with a midly microphonic tube that now, even when I tap the tube is as quiet as it's silent mate in the next slot. thanks everyone! this thread is a really great source of info and i'm excited to contribute what i find.


 
   
  Are you sure it isn't the headphone cables microphonics and not necessarily the tube?
  Did you try and switch the tube to the other spot and replicate findings?


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> just me be'n a wise acre.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  what i meant by tapping was checking for microphony. yesterday when i tapped on it or dragged my finger across the top, it was amplified through the corresponding cup in my 'phones. you could hear vibrations within the tube, that seems to have died down quite a bit.


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





l0rdr0ck said:


> Are you sure it isn't the headphone cables microphonics and not necessarily the tube?
> Did you try and switch the tube to the other spot and replicate findings?


 
  I can confirm it was tube microphonics because I moved the tube and the phenomenon was replicated in the other cup. But please note that the Lyr, Bifrost, HE-500's and Amperex tubes were all brand new last night. Perhaps the tubes were just settling in?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> I can confirm it was tube microphonics because I moved the tube and the phenomenon was replicated in the other cup. But please note that the Lyr, Bifrost, HE-500's and Amperex tubes were all brand new last night. Perhaps the tubes were just settling in?


 
  What I'm not understanding is the phenomenon of tube microphonic's is normal. So don't bang against your amp or invest in tube dampers.
   
  Unless the tubes exhibit noise unadulterated because that's just annoying. Sadly, tubes and microphonics are like PB&J.


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> What I'm not understanding is the phenomenon of tube microphonic's is normal. So don't bang against your amp or invest in tube dampers.
> 
> Unless the tubes exhibit noise unadulterated because that's just annoying. Sadly, tubes and microphonics are like PB&J.


 
  Sorry, I'm new to tubes and headphone hi-fi, perhaps I should've worded it a bit more clearly. One tube was emitting an incessant high pitched whine. I already have tube dampers, and last night while the tube was still being noisy, and moved the damper around and got it to stop, but it came a back a few times. Today, I had no issues. My question is, can a tube be noisy then stop?


----------



## l0rdr0ck

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> I can confirm it was tube microphonics because I moved the tube and the phenomenon was replicated in the other cup. But please note that the Lyr, Bifrost, HE-500's and Amperex tubes were all brand new last night. Perhaps the tubes were just settling in?


 
  you rock, all new as of yesterday.  you must be pretty amp'd  (ignore bad pun)


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> Sorry, I'm new to tubes and headphone hi-fi, perhaps I should've worded it a bit more clearly. One tube was emitting an incessant high pitched whine. I already have tube dampers, and last night while the tube was still being noisy, and moved the damper around and got it to stop, but it came a back a few times. Today, I had no issues. My question is, can a tube be noisy then stop?


 
  Ah gotcha. That makes it quite a bit more clear (that unadulterated annoying tube noise).
   
  Tubes are funky, those tubes could have worked out their kinks after warming up or they could just go away and magically come back later.
   
  If it continues or at least continues to be a bother you're looking at needing to grab another set. Generally you can test tubes all you'd like
  but that doesn't really factor in the microphonic's.


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ah gotcha. That makes it quite a bit more clear (that unadulterated annoying tube noise).
> 
> Tubes are funky,* those tubes could have worked out their kinks after warming up or they could just go away and magically come back later.*
> 
> ...


 
  I'm hoping the former is the case, we'll see though. They are almost half a century old. Either way I can't hear it during any of my recordings, it just sounds like my ear is ringing after I pause a song or something. I haven't listened to anything that has long pauses, though. I bought the set from mercedesman and (prematurely) got in contact with him about the noise, and he offered to send out a replacement. Top notch customer service but I'm thinking it might be unnecessary at this point. 
   
  To bring it back to the main purpose of the thread:
   
  1965 Amperex USN-CEP 6922 set, a winner in my book. The sound is opening up and the separation is greater with every listen. The mids aren't drowning out the other frequencies like the were in the beginning and even poorly recorded tracks are sounding less muddy. This is in comparison to my initial impressions, tubes have about 10 hours on them.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> Sorry, I'm new to tubes and headphone hi-fi, perhaps I should've worded it a bit more clearly. One tube was emitting an incessant high pitched whine. I already have tube dampers, and last night while the tube was still being noisy, and moved the damper around and got it to stop, but it came a back a few times. Today, I had no issues. *My question is, can a tube be noisy then stop?*


 
  Yes.
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> Sorry, I'm new to tubes and headphone hi-fi, perhaps I should've worded it a bit more clearly. One tube was emitting an incessant high pitched whine. I already have tube dampers, and last night while the tube was still being noisy, and moved the damper around and got it to stop, but it came a back a few times. Today, I had no issues. My question is, can a tube be noisy then stop?


 
   
 I thought I would toss a few things into the ring regarding tube break-in microphonic noise and various hissing and crackling noises. 
  
 *Microphonic Noise*
 As others have already stated, almost all tubes are to some degree microphonic and if you tap on them you will usually hear it. Personally, I would suggest not making it a regular practice to tap on vacuum tubes.  
  
 There are some vendors that grade their NOS Tubes for low noise/microphonics.  I believe this tube grading is done by plugging the tubes into a high gain circuit like a phono stage and listening.  I know that Upscale Audio sells three grades of tubes and the platinum are very low in microphonics and sold at a premium price.  Another vendor Vintage Tube Services grades their tubes in 4 levels http://vintagetubeservices.com/page6.html the quieter the tube the higher the price. So, you can take your chances on e-bay, (I have had mixed results myself) or you can pay a premium to get ultra quiet tubes that are also matched and balanced to very close levels.
  
  
  
 *Tube Break-in *
 Brent Jessee Recording sends along a nice tube FAQ when you order from him. He states that most NOS tubes need a minimum 48-hour break-in and some may take up to 100-hours. He also notes that small signal tubes (6JD8) can on some occasions make strange noises (Hiss, Pop, Crackle) and they they often clear up after the break-in period.  He also notes another common cause of this noise phenomenon is dirty connections on the tube pins. So, in some cases a good cleaning may be in order. Of course cleaning the contacts without messing up the painted label on the tube can be a bit tricky.
  
 Hope that helps.
  
  
 -edit removed tube damper section.
  
 - edit fixed misspelling of Brent Jessee.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Here are a set of the tubes that I have raved endlessly about, I am not sure if they are as good as mine(nos, cryo) but if they are 2/3rds as good they would still be the best I have heard
> 
> .http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-E188CC-RTC-GOLD-PIN-NOS-NIB-TUBE-LOT-1-/261151201993?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D4804155852274070612%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D261151201993%26


 
  Fear,
   
  Got a set.
  Thanks


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bsn said:


> I thought I would toss a few things into the ring regarding tube break-in microphonic noise and various hissing and crackling noises.
> 
> *Microphonic Noise*
> As others have already stated, almost all tubes are to some degree microphonic and if you tap on them you will usually hear it. Personally, I would suggest not making it a regular practice to tap on vacuum tubes.
> ...


 
  Another very helpful post from a roller denizen
  I appreciate it.


----------



## hifimiami

Thank you BSN, excellent discussion regarding tube performance,  I'm awaiting delivery of French Mazda's 6922 to install on Lyr from Brent Jessie Recording.  [size=small]Brent does not offer the different grades of tubes but based on past experience his tubes are excellent.[/size]


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Fear,
> 
> Got a set.
> Thanks


 
  Let me know your thoughts.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Another very helpful post from a roller denizen
> I appreciate it.


 
  If anyone noticed, I wanted to say that I am sorry about all the edits I made on that last post. My current set of eyeglasses are in the shop getting fixed and I am wearing an older pair with a different prescription. My vision is off a bit and my eyes are having some challenges with these smaller font's.  I just remembered that Command + + makes things bigger on the Mac.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  I will try to keep the edits down to a minimum.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bsn said:


> If anyone noticed, I wanted to say that I am sorry about all the edits I made on that last post. My current set of eyeglasses are in the shop getting fixed and I am wearing an older pair with a different prescription. My vision is off a bit and my eyes are having some challenges with these smaller font's.  I just remembered that Command + + makes things bigger on the Mac.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  yeah right..... edits, glasses.
   
  I've already used those excuses.
  As such, I state that whatever I type is incorrect upfront.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





hifimiami said:


> Thank you BSN, excellent discussion regarding tube performance,  I'm awaiting delivery of French Mazda's 6922 to install on Lyr from Brent Jessie Recording.  [size=small]Brent does not offer the different grades of tubes but based on past experience his tubes are excellent.[/size]


 
  Yes, sometimes you can score some really good deals on e-bay, but sometimes you also get what you pay for.  I have had good results from both Brent Jessee and Vintage Tube Services.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> yeah right..... edits, glasses.
> 
> I've already used those excuses.
> As such, I state that whatever I type is incorrect upfront.


 
  I might have to borrow your disclaimer for a few days.


----------



## Iamnothim

One of you guys owes me $65 for sniping my RTC auction, with 6 seconds left.
  Then... Going to the other RTC auction that ends 4 minutes later and getting them for $10 less.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> One of you guys owes me $65 for sniping my RTC auction, with 6 seconds left.
> Then... Going to the other RTC auction that ends 4 minutes later and getting them for $10 less.


 
  Yea. And I don't even have Lyr....Yet.... Sucka.


----------



## HK_sends

Don't look at me this time...I've had to lay off of getting more tubes due to cash shortage.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I even had to pass on ckc527's rare Valvo PCC88 D-Getter tubes...and I really wanted those.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Don't look at me this time...I've had to lay off of getting more tubes due to cash shortage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No worries...I'm sure those D-getter Valvo's are going to a good home.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> No worries...I'm sure those D-getter Valvo's are going to a good home.


 
  Please let me know how they sound...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Please let me know how they sound...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Will do, my friend.


----------



## Iamnothim

Ya might know this site already...
  I found it fascinating 
   
http://www.shinjo.info/frank/vs.html
   
  also
   
http://www.shinjo.info/frank/sheetsE.html


----------



## Iamnothim

Here's a clean copy of the Philips date document


----------



## Shini44

hi i am going for  Schlitt Lyr Amp and bifrost Dac yet which Tube should i pick? i am looking for low-noise and Bright/fun Tube more like the AD8610ARZ opamp so which tube is the most similar to it? Thanks in advance ^^


----------



## Iamnothim

This will be an adventure.
  I just bought a B&K Dyna Jet 606 Vacuum Tube tester.
   
   

   
   
   
  I confirmed it had a 9-pin mini socket and tests 6.3V
  I went through the testing charts. It has:
  6299, ECC88, E88CC, E188CC, 6DJ8, and a bunch of others.
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290843825748?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  I wanted a Heathkit TC-3 because it has all the assembly instructions and parts list for repairing it.  I lost it and went for this B&K
  B&K is supposed to be a more professional brand like Hickock.
   
  Still, he boat anchor factor is med-high.
  I always wanted to learn how test circuits.  If it craps out I have a nice Fluke multimeter to try to repair it.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





shini44 said:


> hi i am going for  Schlitt Lyr Amp and bifrost Dac yet which Tube should i pick? i am looking for low-noise and Bright/fun Tube more like the AD8610ARZ opamp so which tube is the most similar to it? Thanks in advance ^^


 
  I'm not sure if I would call them bright, but I think any of the 1960's era Amperex Holland tubes sound really good on most musical genres. You can find sets starting around $50.00 and up. So, that would be a good starter NOS tube set.  I think the Mid-60's Bugle Boys are great tubes as are the orange globes and PQs. I don't have any 6DJ8 Telefunken tubes for my Lyr, but the Telefunken tubes that fit my Pan Am run on the brighter side, but not too bright.  However, I cannot say for sure if what is true for a Telefunken 6AK5 tube is also true for a 6DJ8.  I would probably start out with a set of Amperex Hollands and see what you think.


----------



## jamato8

I like the TV7 testers, the D or E version. The 1st version isn't that well made. I have 2 Hickok 439C's, with one as new and they are fine but to get you to where you want to be, a transconductance testers like the TV-2 or 10 will do.
   
  I am using some Soviet era 1984 6DJ8 types right now that I always found to could outdo all of my many nos Amperex, and I have around 150 and other tubes. So I don't know how you would find the type of 6DJ8 I am talking about. They are in an Amperex box and marked made in Gt. Britain but I know from experience they are Soviet. Very quiet, solid, excellent bass and refined highs.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I like the TV7 testers, the D or E version. The 1st version isn't that well made. I have 2 Hickok 439C's, with one as new and they are fine but to get you to where you want to be, a transconductance testers like the TV-2 or 10 will do.
> 
> I am using some Soviet era 1984 6DJ8 types right now that I always found to could outdo all of my many nos Amperex, and I have around 150 and other tubes. So I don't know how you would find the type of 6DJ8 I am talking about. They are in an Amperex box and marked made in Gt. Britain but I know from experience they are Soviet. Very quiet, solid, excellent bass and refined highs.


 
  You are my new best friend 
  I have decided to make tube testers my tertiary hobby, or the hobby, within the hobby, within the hobby.
  I was just about to look for a tube tester Head-Fi thread when your post came through.  Is there one?
   
  I did 45 minutes of extensive research before buying my Dyna Jet 606.  Yes Sir.
  I lost a Heathkit one on eBay  I wanted it because a Heathkit lists all the parts and how to build it.  (I know everyone knows this...)
  After I lost, I read a bit more and found the Heathkit wasn't all that great.  Not surprising. Plus you don't know who built it in the first place.  
   
  So I picked up the B&K.   I know it's nowhere near the quality accuracy of a Hickock, but it's a nice place for me to start.  $160 delivered and estimating another $700 in parts to make it work right.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I hope not, but that's my track record on this kind of stuff.
   
  Even though the thing "looks clean" you don't know what's behind the covers.  I'm just starting this.  I realize that I have to calibrate the thing
  otherwise I have no clue if the test values are valid.  I know there's an RCA 6L6 calibration tube but I can't see how that helps me with 9 pin 6JD8's.
   
  I'm going to have to learn how to read schematics, get some deoxit, learn to use my Fluke meter and on.   If I need buttons, components and such, I'm sure I can find it on mouser.com
   
  Thanks for the comments


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> You are my new best friend
> I have decided to make tube testers my tertiary hobby, or the hobby, within the hobby, within the hobby.
> I was just about to look for a tube tester Head-Fi thread when your post came through.  Is there one?
> 
> ...


 

 The 6L6 was used by Hickok to determine the basic settings of the tube and not the individual sockets, if they are working or not. The tester showing a correct setting for the 6L6 will show you the tester is on but that doesn't mean there might not be a problem with a selector switch or tube socket. There is no way you would want to invest more than 150 or so into the tester you got. You can pick up reconditioned and calibrated testers and no more work needs to be done but you want to make sure the seller is reputable. I keep 2 6L6's with me and other calibration tubes, just to check out the sockets. Some testers, earlier, didn't do well with the 6DJ8 because of its requirements and will test all over the place. The D and E version of the TV7 accounted for this. Often what is needed is ferrite rings on each wire coming off of the socket for the 9 pin, which tames this. The later testers had these and some earlier ones have been modified by adding these inexpensive rings.
   
  Remember a tester just gives you a number. It doesn't really tell you how a tube will sound, and unless you access the circuit, if a tube is noisy. Also the number can be high or low but that doesn't always tell you how good a tube really is, testing wise. It is just a ballpark to get you there. Much testing gets you the experience needed.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> The 6L6 was used by Hickok to determine the basic settings of the tube and not the individual sockets, if they are working or not. The tester showing a correct setting for the 6L6 will show you the tester is on but that doesn't mean there might not be a problem with a selector switch or tube socket. There is no way you would want to invest more than 150 or so into the tester you got. You can pick up reconditioned and calibrated testers and no more work needs to be done but you want to make sure the seller is reputable. I keep 2 6L6's with me and other calibration tubes, just to check out the sockets. Some testers, earlier, didn't do well with the 6DJ8 because of its requirements and will test all over the place. The D and E version of the TV7 accounted for this. Often what is needed is ferrite rings on each wire coming off of the socket for the 9 pin, which tames this. The later testers had these and some earlier ones have been modified by adding these inexpensive rings.
> 
> Remember a tester just gives you a number. It doesn't really tell you how a tube will sound, and unless you access the circuit, if a tube is noisy. Also the number can be high or low but that doesn't always tell you how good a tube really is, testing wise. It is just a ballpark to get you there. Much testing gets you the experience needed.


 
  Thank for the detailed reply.  I'm getting my brain around it.
  I understand there is not a test for sonic signature.  I had hoped for noise and/or micro phonics.  But that's OK. I got it for fun. Learning something new and determining if a tube is degrading. Connecting the dots, as it were. Learning Triodes and heaters and such.
   
  I'm restating your explanation so I understand.  You set the tester up for the 6L6 slot, plug in the reference tube, press test and you should get a reading that the tube is .... I would think pegged good. Any other reading indicates how far off your tester is....And that was my biggest question.  Just because a 6L6 slot is good doesn't mean 6DJ8 slot is good.  As you pointed out the 6JD8 socket is on another circuit path with different cap's and rotary switch settings. 
   
  Thanks again.


----------



## jamato8

The 6L6 has a set value on it as it is tested on another Hickok tester. Say it is a 6L6 for a 439C and tested on a very calibrated 439C. You then calibrate to get the same number as on that calibrating tube. I calibrated most of my own testers so I have other numbers for the 6L6 for other testers. I also have a 6SN7, 6DJ8 and a few others with known values to check out everything. Sometimes the 6DJ8 will show that a tester will test one half of it fine but the other side totally off. I know that the other half is oscillating, so ferrite rings are needed on the wires. I like my TV7's (three), TV10 (never worked until I got it so even though it was made in the 1950's, inside it is like new), 2 439c's and a few others. Too many but I got on a rampage about 12 years ago. I carry a TV7 with me now when traveling and my calibrating tubes. The nice thing about the TV7, TV10 and 439C is that they have pots so you can easily calibrate them, well if you know what you are doing. Sometimes a resistor is fried but mine are all up to par now.


----------



## thisthingz

Hey all,

 I was wondering what the use of socket savers are for... I thought they made replacing tubes easier, but the connection between the tube and socket saver is tighter than the socket saver to the lyr. Maybe I just made up the use of socket savers  completely in my head... anyone have any ideas?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





thisthingz said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I was wondering what the use of socket savers are for... I thought they made replacing tubes easier, but the connection between the tube and socket saver is tighter than the socket saver to the lyr. Maybe I just made up the use of socket savers  completely in my head... anyone have any ideas?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  They have an aesthetic appeal to some, they make the use of tube dampers easier and they make tube rolling easier for some. In the case of my Lyr, the connections are pretty tight so it makes a lot easier to have something to grab onto. Many also are using them for their purported original use, they roll new tubes into the socket savers (using a stick or something to hold it in place in the Lyr) so they don't wear out the sockets in the Lyr. Basically unnecessary, they have no discernible effect in sound quality. Just an investment in aesthetics mainly, with an added bonus of the features mentioned above.


----------



## 148124

which tube would be totally dead silent no matter the price ? the most important is no humming, buzzing, whinning, crackling, no microphonics at all, totally dead silent when there is no music playing on Lyr


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

magicman said:


> which tube would be totally dead silent no matter the price ? the most important is no humming, buzzing, whinning, crackling, no microphonics at all, totally dead silent when there is no music playing on Lyr




Sensitivity of the headphones your using is a big factor as far as noise on the lyr. Tubes that I thought to be silent on the lcd2, were noisey on an efficient can like the grado or d7000. That said if noise was the ONLY critera for choosing I would say go with newly made tubes, like the JJ's, Electro Harmonix 6922eh, or Genalex Gold Lions.


----------



## 148124

I had EH 6922s in my previous amp - indeed they were dead silent with no crackling, buzzing or humming, I heard that 6n1p are one of the quietest tubes for lyr (telefunken or siemens might be good too but extremely expensive)
   
  Of course sensitivity of hp is crucial here and I will be using my Lyr with HE-4, they are pretty uneffective which should be good for noise/buzzing etc but I was asking about quietest tube no matter the sensitivity of hp (low sensitivity only hides the issue that still exists)


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

magicman said:


> I had EH 6922s in my previous amp - indeed they were dead silent with no crackling, buzzing or humming, I heard that 6n1p are one of the quietest tubes for lyr (telefunken or siemens might be good too but extremely expensive)
> 
> Of course sensitivity of hp is crucial here and I will be using my Lyr with HE-4, they are pretty uneffective which should be good for noise/buzzing etc but I was asking about quietest tube no matter the sensitivity of hp (low sensitivity only hides the issue that still exists)




Yep regardless of hp sensitivity newly made tubes are the way to go for highest chance of silence. I've had Siemens and Telefunken tubes for the lyr and they sound great but it's a roll of the dice as far as how quiet vintage tubes will be. 
My lyr didn't ship with the 6n1p so may someone can chime in on those.


----------



## 148124

6n1p are paired by schiit now and sold as an alternative solution to have different sound signature
   
  should be amazing tubes + great chance to be dead silent when there is no music or between silent passages
   
  so my best try is 6n1p from schiit directly (these are from valhalla I guess) and new Electro Harmonix 6922 - might be great for having forward mids, details, speed and upper harmonics (thats how I remembered them from my previous setup but it might be amplifier's implementation dependent) for dynamic piano music (Lisitsa + Bosendorfer), EF5 was a great match for my he4 (86 dB sensitivity so even harder to drive than he5le) but too many times out of steam so I had to go for the Lyr, no other option (I dont want audio-gd or vintage receivers, speaker amp was not an option too for some reasons)


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Those should be good choices. However I have to say part of the fun of the lyr is experimenting with vintage tubes, they may not be the most quiet but I found them to be the most enjoyable to listen to. You can also try the 7dj8 version of tubes which are nearly the same as 6dj8 family but with a slightly different voltage rating, however they can be considerably less expensive. For example http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-PCC88-%7B47%7D-7DJ8.html versus http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-E88CC-%7B47%7D-6922.html


----------



## 148124

nice shop - is it reliable ?
   
  I bought some NOS tubes in the past from ebay and they were nasty, buzzing, humming, crackling many times even they were paired and tested as good, there is many fake ones too which is actually pathetic
   
  I will never buy "shi t" that is selling on ebay, only best of the best no matter the price, I think I'm gonna quit on buying NOS and buy only new one (thats why I strongly prefer buying tubes from new manufacturers like sophia electric or EML - you just cant go wrong with these, never)
   
  Are there interesting "new" tubes (newly made not NOS) from 6922 family (or equivalents) ?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Yeah I bought a pair of cv2493's from them and they were a good seller and the tubes were really nice quality (I ordered the premium version though). Check out http://www.tubemonger.com/Pre_Tubes_s/1.htm too, I've bought a lot from them and trust them.

I haven't found any newly made tube that has really wowed me like some of the nos variety. They sound kinda solid stateish and boxy but detailed to me. I've only owned the JJ's, 6922eh, and Russian 6h23n newly made tubes. Some folks on the thread early on really liked the gold lions but I've only heard them briefly so can't really comment.


----------



## 333jeffery

I believe EAT makes a new 6922 tube, but it's hideously expensive--$250 a tube. And, the coolers mounted on it won't fit in the Lyr. Here it is: http://www.euroaudioteam.com/en/eat-ecc88-cool-valve-000008.html
  Enjoy!


----------



## 148124

*"Upscale Audio prides itself on offering the best tube testing in the industry.* Every single tube is tested one at a time in-circuit, using real-world voltages. Signal tubes are listened to on a simulated phonostage with headphones to check for noise. Power tubes are burned in for 72 hours before we ever take a single measurement."
   
  that is really something worth considering, after checking out all the family I'm thinking about getting platinum grade matched pairs of:
   
  6n1p from schiit directly
   
  6h23 type 3
  matsushta pcc88
  tungsram 6922
  telefunken pcc88


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Jeez magic now I feel like a bad influence


----------



## 148124

hahah 
   
  how about 7V required for pcc88 in Lyr ?? arent all 6922 6,3V ?? any issues here / Lyr / tubes damage ??


----------



## caracara08

i popped in my Gold Lions finally and noticed my Lyr runs wayyyy cooler than when I had the Nationals in there... any reason for this?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

magicman said:


> hahah
> 
> how about 7V required for pcc88 in Lyr ?? arent all 6922 6,3V ?? any issues here / Lyr / tubes damage ??




Many of us have used the 7dj8 in the lyr for months at a time with no issue


----------



## Iamnothim

jamato8 said:


> The 6L6 has a set value on it as it is tested on another Hickok tester. Say it is a 6L6 for a 439C and tested on a very calibrated 439C. You then calibrate to get the same number as on that calibrating tube. I calibrated most of my own testers so I have other numbers for the 6L6 for other testers. I also have a 6SN7, 6DJ8 and a few others with known values to check out everything. Sometimes the 6DJ8 will show that a tester will test one half of it fine but the other side totally off. I know that the other half is oscillating, so ferrite rings are needed on the wires. I like my TV7's (three), TV10 (never worked until I got it so even though it was made in the 1950's, inside it is like new), 2 439c's and a few others. Too many but I got on a rampage about 12 years ago. I carry a TV7 with me now when traveling and my calibrating tubes. The nice thing about the TV7, TV10 and 439C is that they have pots so you can easily calibrate them, well if you know what you are doing. Sometimes a resistor is fried but mine are all up to par now.




I just bought an entry level Rigol scope and a Hakke 888 iron. I'm ready for the tester to arrive.


----------



## Fearless1

@Iamnothim, Very curious to hear your impressions of the La Radiotecniques when they arrive, keep me updated!


----------



## undersys

Anyone know how to read a tube tester ?
 I was out looking for tubes today :-



 And the store owner tested a set of telefunken tubes for me.
 Asked me to pick the matched set??? I have no clue how to pick a good tube.

 Also whats a good tube to go for??

 Rest of the tube shopping images :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/undersys/sets/72157632547234453/


----------



## Iamnothim

fearless1 said:


> @Iamnothim, Very curious to hear your impressions of the La Radiotecniques when they arrive, keep me updated!



They were mailed from Spain a few days ago, so it'll be a while before I have them.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> They were mailed from Spain a few days ago, so it'll be a while before I have them.


 
  Yeah took a month for mine.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Those should be good choices. However I have to say part of the fun of the lyr is experimenting with vintage tubes, they may not be the most quiet but I found them to be the most enjoyable to listen to. You can also try the 7dj8 version of tubes which are nearly the same as 6dj8 family but with a slightly different voltage rating, however they can be considerably less expensive. For example http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-PCC88-%7B47%7D-7DJ8.html versus http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-E88CC-%7B47%7D-6922.html


 
  I had some of the Telefunken PCC88's that were my favorites until I (and the rest of the forum) was introduced to the Lorenz tubes.  One item of trivia is that some Telefunken PCC88s were made by Siemens and rebranded (I don't remember how to tell, but there was a way).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Yeah I bought a pair of cv2493's from them and they were a good seller and the tubes were really nice quality (I ordered the premium version though). Check out http://www.tubemonger.com/Pre_Tubes_s/1.htm too, I've bought a lot from them and trust them.
> 
> I haven't found any newly made tube that has really wowed me like some of the nos variety. They sound kinda solid stateish and boxy but detailed to me. I've only owned the JJ's, 6922eh, and Russian 6h23n newly made tubes. Some folks on the thread early on really liked the *gold lions* but I've only heard them briefly so can't really comment.


 
  They are good but need a looong time to settle in.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





magicman said:


> *"Upscale Audio prides itself on offering the best tube testing in the industry.* Every single tube is tested one at a time in-circuit, using real-world voltages. Signal tubes are listened to on a simulated phonostage with headphones to check for noise. Power tubes are burned in for 72 hours before we ever take a single measurement."
> 
> that is really something worth considering, after checking out all the family I'm thinking about getting platinum grade matched pairs of:
> 
> ...


 
  I got my first Matsu 6922 tubes from these guys.  Good folks to deal with...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  Sorry for all the posts...just catching up...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Jeez magic now I feel like a bad influence


 
  Aren't you...? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  - HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

I've started reading ......
   
   

   
  To prepare for next week when these arrive:
   
   
    
   
  I need to read faster.


----------



## Lord Soth

hk_sends said:


> I had some of the Telefunken PCC88's that were my favorites until I (and the rest of the forum) was introduced to the Lorenz tubes.  One item of trivia is that some Telefunken PCC88s were made by Siemens and rebranded (I don't remember how to tell, but there was a way).
> 
> Cheers!
> -HK sends




The real Telefunkens have the < > diamond at the bottom.

Siemens rebranded Telefunkens do not.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> The real Telefunkens have the < > diamond at the bottom.
> 
> Siemens rebranded Telefunkens do not.


 
  That's right, I forgot.  Thank you, Sir!
   
   
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> That's right, I forgot.  Thank you, Sir!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Will you provide a description of the Lorenz tubes I should be looking for?
   
  Thanks


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I've started reading ......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You better, it'll all be obsolete before you're finished. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> You better, it'll all be obsolete before you're finished.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What's the top and what's the bottom?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> What's the top and what's the bottom?


 
  Depends on if you are standing on your head or not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Depends on if you are standing on your head or not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm seeing at least 20 things that I have to figure out what they do.


----------



## bsn

I'm not sure if this has been posted in this thread before or not. Chances are someone in Head-Fi has posted this somewhere on the forum before. Regardless, incase you missed it, there are some pretty cool old videos from the Mullard factory here. 
   
http://www.hifitubes.nl/weblog/index.php/category/tube-history/


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bsn said:


> I'm not sure if this has been posted in this thread before or not. Chances are someone in Head-Fi has posted this somewhere on the forum before. Regardless, incase you missed it, there are some pretty cool old videos from the Mullard factory here.
> 
> http://www.hifitubes.nl/weblog/index.php/category/tube-history/


 
  Excellent!  Thanks!  I know I hadn't seen it before.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I'm seeing at least 20 things that I have to figure out what they do.


 
  I should have taken some electronics courses.  My Dad can navigate schematics like a roadmap.  I barely know the difference between a resistor and a capacitor (other than the resistor hurts a lot less when you touch the leads with your tongue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Listening to these right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-NOS-LORENZ-SEL-TUBES-MTCH-2PCS-/390526547524?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5aed323644
  Paradoxper reminded me a while back how good these sound and after some delay I finally got a set to replace the ones I had to sell off.  Very musical with a solid bass and a touch of forward mids and smooth treble.  They have to settle in a bit, but they come pretty close to their Stuttgart-made predecessors in detail.  Great alternatives when you can't get the Lorenz Stuttgart tubes.
   
  And remember this is all IMHO and YMMV!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Listening to these right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-NOS-LORENZ-SEL-TUBES-MTCH-2PCS-/390526547524?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5aed323644
> Paradoxper reminded me a while back how good these sound and after some delay I finally got a set to replace the ones I had to sell off.  Very musical with a solid bass and a touch of forward mids and smooth treble.  They have to settle in a bit, but they come pretty close to their Stuttgart-made predecessors in detail.  Great alternatives when you can't get the Lorenz Stuttgart tubes.
> 
> And remember this is all IMHO and YMMV!
> ...


 
  Now HK, are ya gonna pick up MORE Lorenz? 
   
  Gotta catch 'em all!


----------



## Iamnothim

hk_sends said:


> Listening to these right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-NOS-LORENZ-SEL-TUBES-MTCH-2PCS-/390526547524?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5aed323644
> Paradoxper reminded me a while back how good these sound and after some delay I finally got a set to replace the ones I had to sell off.  Very musical with a solid bass and a touch of forward mids and smooth treble.  They have to settle in a bit, but they come pretty close to their Stuttgart-made predecessors in detail.  Great alternatives when you can't get the Lorenz Stuttgart tubes.
> 
> And remember this is all IMHO and YMMV!
> ...




HK,
Any idea what year these are?
I take it, if I want the Mac Daddies, I should wait to find some Stuttgart's..yes?


----------



## mikek200

What I'd like to know is---Where the hell does he findem


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> HK,
> Any idea what year these are?
> I take it, if I want the Mac Daddies, I should wait to find some Stuttgart's..yes?


 
   
  Those look like 1968 production. Nish plant.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> What I'd like to know is---Where the hell does he findem


 
  Nooo, nooo. Maintain focus! Stuttgarts are around to be found!


----------



## Iamnothim

So glad you said that.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Now HK, are ya gonna pick up MORE Lorenz?
> 
> Gotta catch 'em all!


 
  As long as somebody out there has 'em... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> What I'd like to know is---Where the hell does he findem


 
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Those look like 1968 production. Nish plant.


 
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Nooo, nooo. Maintain focus! Stuttgarts are around to be found!


 
   
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> So glad you said that.


 
  They have the Bundeswehr Eagle on them but are (err...were...) made in Nish.  For some reason, the ones with the eagle logo are better than the ITT Lorenz.  At least that's what I've heard (and I do mean "heard while listening").
  While the Stuttgarts are the brass (gold, platinum, unobtainium, etc.) ring, these make for an acceptable placebo or an adequate placeholder intil I find more...err...until more Stuttgarts are made available. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Oh, they sound great too... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My secret is this: "Lorenz PCC88" is one of my saved searches on E-bay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That's all there is... (after selling my soul)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> They have the Bundeswehr Eagle on them but are (err...were...) made in Nish.  For some reason, the ones with the eagle logo are better than the ITT Lorenz.  At least that's what I've heard (and I do mean "heard while listening").
> While the Stuttgarts are the brass (gold, platinum, unobtainium, etc.) ring, these make for an acceptable placebo or an adequate placeholder intil I find more...err...until more Stuttgarts are made available.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have to say I agree. I didn't really like the ITT Lorenz. I still agree that those SEL are a really good value or stand in's for the Stuttgart's.
   
  GOOD LUCK with the Stuttgart search. There be some greedy hands on 'em.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I have to say I agree. I didn't really like the ITT Lorenz. I still agree that those SEL are a really good value or stand in's for the Stuttgart's.
> 
> *GOOD LUCK with the Stuttgart search. There be some greedy hands on 'em*.


 
  Well, unless I come across some NOS supply, I'm pretty much done.  I'm not going to be going as crazy this time because:
   
  1. I'm happy with the sound of the tubes I have and...
  2. I already sold my house so there is nothing to take out a second mortgage on...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But if I run across another supply of Stuttgarts I will let folks know.
  ...no, really.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Listening to these right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-NOS-LORENZ-SEL-TUBES-MTCH-2PCS-/390526547524?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5aed323644
> Paradoxper reminded me a while back how good these sound and after some delay I finally got a set to replace the ones I had to sell off.  Very musical with a solid bass and a touch of forward mids and smooth treble.  They have to settle in a bit, but they come pretty close to their Stuttgart-made predecessors in detail.  Great alternatives when you can't get the Lorenz Stuttgart tubes.
> 
> And remember this is all IMHO and YMMV!
> ...


 
  Another for the collection.
  I bought them for $60


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Another for the collection.
> I bought them for $60


 

 Instead of $40


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Instead of $40


 
  I had them at $40 until 4 seconds left.
  Someone else bid $58
  My max was $59
  I got them.
  $20.  No big deal.  $20's seem to flow from my wallet


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I had them at $40 until 4 seconds left.
> Someone else bid $58
> My max was $59
> I got them.
> $20.  No big deal.  $20's seem to flow from my wallet


 

 My max was $58 ...... otherwise I was going to buy the 4 for $99 he was offering.


----------



## Iamnothim

I didn't even read the description carefully to see the "PCC88", and understand what a 7DJ8 is.....
   
  I just now read on Brent Jessee's page where they are 7V and likely to last longer.
  Also on the rare side and mostly from Europe.
   
  Can't wait to listen to them.
   
  Since folks on this thread are probably the only bidders on tube auctions, we need to figure out how to rig the auctions.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> My max was $58 ...... otherwise I was going to buy the 4 for $99 he was offering.


 
  Can't believe your max was $58....
   
  Actually mine was $61.32


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I didn't even read the description carefully to see the "PCC88", and understand what a 7DJ8 is.....
> 
> I just now read on Brent Jessee's page where they are 7V and likely to last longer.
> Also on the rare side and mostly from Europe.
> ...


 

 Good idea .... anyway, I'll have an extra 2 if someone else here is interested


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Good idea .... anyway, I'll have an extra 2 if someone else here is interested


 
  Git'em Bob.....
   
  I think you'll turn out OK on that deal.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Git'em Bob.....
> 
> I think you'll turn out OK on that deal.


 

 Oh, I bought them the second "our" auction was over ........


----------



## Iamnothim

paradoxper said:


> Nooo, nooo. Maintain focus! Stuttgarts are around to be found!




dox or HK,

Will you take a couple pics of some Stuttgart Lorenz?
That way I know what I'm looking for.

But don't let Bob see them.


----------



## paradoxper

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 
   


Spoiler: BOB%20KEEP%20OUT!



 


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


----------



## Iamnothim

ROFLMA !!!!!!!!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well Done !
   
  There is no way Bob will figure that out.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Well Done !
> 
> There is no way Bob will figure that out.


 
  I know not one smart Bob. So I figured that much.


----------



## BobJS

*Yawn* .... just took a little nap.  Had the strangest dream ...... Stuttgart Lorenz tubes dancing all around me, but now it's all so fuzzy ...... I WISH I knew what they looked like .... if only there were some way to find out ...........


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> *Yawn* .... just took a little nap.  Had the strangest dream ...... Stuttgart Lorenz tubes dancing all around me, but now it's all so fuzzy ...... I WISH I knew what they looked like .... if only there were some way to find out ...........


 
i M A G I N A T I O N


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> i M A G I N A T I O N


 
  Ya think he's on to us?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Ya think he's on to us?


 
  CLEARLY HE KNOWS. AND CLEARLY HE CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT. Heheee.


----------



## BobJS

C'mon guys .... give me SOME credit.  I figured it out.  I keep clicking until I reach the place where it says , "BOB KEEP OUT", and then I stop.  What kind of dummy do you think I am?


----------



## HK_sends

Sorry to ruin the joke:
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_Gray_Shield_Germany_p/1054.htm
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_3MIGray_Shield_Germany_p/1057.htm
   
  Before you get too excited, check the quantity...out of stock.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Sorry to ruin the joke:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_Gray_Shield_Germany_p/1054.htm
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, thanks.... I've been there already!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Yeah, thanks.... I've been there already!


 
  One characteristic of the Stuttgart tubes is the top tip where the glass was sealed together was usually much longer than other tubes.  It was not uncommon to see part of the tip broken off even though the tube would work just fine.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
    
  The set on the right are the grey-shield Lorenz that I used to own...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  The right tube's tip is broken as I mention, but it played just fine.


----------



## HK_sends

I don't know if you saw this, but Tubemonger has a library of photos for tubes they have sold.  I pulled these photos from the site.  The focus is on the 3-mica tubes but the grey-shield, squat bottle, and fused-getter tubes are pictured as well.
   
  3-Mica Tubes:
   

   

   
  Grey-Shield (non 3-mica):
   

   

   
  Squat Bottle:
   

   
  Fused-Getter:
   

  A Big Thanks to Tubemonger Library for the Pictures (http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/main.php)
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  I guess I am a bit of a Lorenz "Fan-Boy"...


----------



## Iamnothim

Great pics and  info !
  I like the tapered waist.
  That really helps.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Great pics and  info !
> I like the tapered waist.
> That really helps.


 
  Unfortunately, that's a trick of the light (or focus).  I don't remember any of the Lorenz having a tapered waist.  If anything, the tubes tended to look "over-inflated", as if they weren't using any mold or form to maintain the shape.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  Ahh...the grey-shields...I see what you were talking about.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I think they were formed by hand (looks it at least)


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I don't know if you saw this, but Tubemonger has a library of photos for tubes they have sold.  I pulled these photos from the site.  The focus is on the 3-mica tubes but the grey-shield, squat bottle, and fused-getter tubes are pictured as well.
> 
> 3-Mica Tubes:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Not my day today .... I'm trying to copy & paste into my Lyr but it's not working


----------



## Iamnothim

For folks like me that are relatively uneducated about the inner working of tubes, I stumbled upon this guide that I find fascinating.
   
http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-010.htm


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Not my day today .... I'm trying to copy & paste into my Lyr but it's not working


 
  You gotta get one of those new-fangled 3-D printers...then it might work...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Hey everybody, I got an e-mail from Tubemonger saying they caught our conversation on the Lorenz tubes.  They were kind enough to provide the sales reference page for each type they sold.  They also offered up some alternative brands to look for (unfortunately all are out of stock).  I'd like to thank the Tubemonger guys for providing the info!  Here's the e-mail I received:
   
   
  Our tech noticed discussion on Lorenz PCC88 tubes on the Lyr thread. Here are the links of specific tubes we had for sale in the past.

 Lorenz Stuttgart Made in Germany
http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1054

http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1054A

http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1054B

http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1055

http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1056

http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1057

 Ei Nish Yugoslavian Lorenz SEL Label Bundeswehr (German Military)
http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=801

 Tesla Czech Lorenz SEL Bundeswehr (German Military)
http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=802

 Tesla ITT Lorenz SEL Label
http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=802A

 Telefunken PCC88 Germany
http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=651

 BTW, following PCC88 tubes made in Holland are very nice except we are sold out (same tube - different labels)
http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1066

http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1067

http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1068

http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1069

http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1073


 Tubemonger
www.tubemonger.com

 For your tube ID Questions
www.tubemongerlib.com
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 
   


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   


  That is very cool of them. Wonder why none of us asked for specifics in the past.
   
  Thanks for relaying that info, HK.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


>


 
  Dear Tubemonger.  Thanks.  I love documentation.


----------



## HK_sends

...and since I was in communication with them, I did ask about whether they had any line on additional stock.  Unfortunately, they don't.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm still hoping for some hidden cache of Stuttgart tubes to be discovered in some old stock room or warehouse along with Jimmy Hoffa...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## BobJS

I've been studying up in the time-travel forum.  Place your Stuttgart tube orders, gentlemen!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I've been studying up in the time-travel forum.  Place your Stuttgart tube orders, gentlemen!


 
  I'll take three matched sets each of Lorenz 3-mica and grey shield!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Oh, I only wish it were true...!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I've been studying up in the time-travel forum.  Place your Stuttgart tube orders, gentlemen!


 
  Sorry Bob, I'm going to have to ask you to forfeit over your time-travel knowledge. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And sorry HK, I'm informing you now that I'm taking said time-travel knowledge and keeping the Stuttgarts to myself again.


----------



## bsn

Don't get too excited, they are not the Coveted German variety.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-LORENZ-BWB-PCC88-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-for-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-MILITARY-ISSUED-/290848900203?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b7f2046b


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bsn said:


> Don't get too excited, they are not the Coveted German variety.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-LORENZ-BWB-PCC88-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-for-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-MILITARY-ISSUED-/290848900203?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b7f2046b


 
  Nuts!  I already have a couple of sets...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bsn said:


> Don't get too excited, they are not the Coveted German variety.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-LORENZ-BWB-PCC88-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-for-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-MILITARY-ISSUED-/290848900203?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b7f2046b


 
  Am I mistaken to think that's a FLAT OUT RIPOFF?
   
  Or have I missed the severe tube inflation...


----------



## bsn

I'm not buying a set. But I have paid that much for a set of tubes before.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bsn said:


> I'm not buying a set. But I have paid that much for a set of tubes before.


 
  Wait a minute. We bought the highly sought out after Stuttgart's for a cool $120 and those inferior bastards are justifiable at $200, er, $150.
   
  OldSkool, dude, you owe me, say, an extra $100.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Am I mistaken to think that's a FLAT OUT RIPOFF?
> 
> Or have I missed the severe tube inflation...


 
  dox,
   
  I am glad you brought those up,  
  First, I looked at them and thought the same thing.  I paid $59 from Lithuania.
  Then I was looking at the pictures and the one I bought look squat compared to those.
  I was concerned mine were fakes.  But the seller has 1700 feedback at 100%
   
  Perhaps it's just the photo.


----------



## bsn

I don't think there is a forgery issue on either set, the seller clearly states that these tube are 1968 Yugoslavia made with Phillips tooling.  So, I would expect them to look different.  I think they are getting hard to find, so sellers are trying to get top dollar for anything with Lorenz name on them.   
[size=small]  [/size]


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bsn said:


> I don't think there is a forgery issue on either set, the seller clearly states that these tube are 1968 Yugoslavia made with Phillips tooling.  So, I would expect them to look different.  I think they are getting hard to find, so sellers are trying to get top dollar for anything with Lorenz name on them.
> [size=small]  [/size]


 
  Forgive me, but if that's the case....screw that!
   
  You can pickup a plethora of other tubes that are much better than any SEL Lorenz.
   
  Unless all other tubes have gone through the roof, like the Mullard CV2492's which were $200. They better be $350 or some other closely absurd price. Just IMO.


----------



## Iamnothim

My B&K DynaJet 606 combination Vacuum Tube Tester and Shoe Polisher came in today.
  Initial indications are that it works.
  I tested a stock Lyr GE 6BZ7 and a 1970's GE Smokie.
  Neither had emission leaks or shorts.
  Both tested about 104/120  I expected better.
  I have ordered a calibration tube from Mercedesman.
  I also found an internal 6BN8 tube I will probably replace it as well.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> dox,
> 
> I am glad you brought those up,
> First, I looked at them and thought the same thing.  I paid $59 from Lithuania.
> ...


 
  It's just the photo.  I got my tubes from the same seller in Lithuania.  They are the same types.  I don't know why they are being offered up for such a high price.  I will say the seller from Lithuania doesn't offer up any test results, but mine look new.
  Yeah...I did a double-take too at the price.  I've seen Tubemuseumsusa's offerings before and they've always been on the high side.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Forgive me, but if that's the case....screw that!
> 
> You can pickup a plethora of other tubes that are much better than any SEL Lorenz.
> 
> Unless all other tubes have gone through the roof, like the Mullard CV2492's which were $200. They better be $350 or some other closely absurd price. Just IMO.


 
   
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did start the post by stating not to get too excited, that they are not the coveted German tubes. I was not suggesting anyone buy them. Everyone was talking about Lorenz this week.  I assume that you have heard that particular 1968 SEL Lorenz before?
   
  I would say that sellers ask that much, because there are some people that will pay it. That auction has already sold one set.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bsn said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did start the post by stating not to get too excited, that they are not the coveted German tubes. I was not suggesting anyone buy them. Everyone was talking about Lorenz this week.  I assume that you have heard that particular 1968 SEL Lorenz before?
> 
> I would say that sellers ask that much, because there are some people that will pay it. That auction has already sold one set.


 
  My issue is with the price. As stated, it doesn't seem right to me. Unless tube prices have gone through the roof, etc.
   
  I've owned those particular pair, and got them for much, much less than what's being listed.
   
  I can understand that to a certain extent.
   
  But I'll give an counter argument. Back months ago the Lorenz Stuttgart's were being had at $120. Some were trying to flip these for, say, double.
   
  Just because someone is willing to pay the price doesn't make it right.
   
  I was just wondering if tube prices had inflated or if this seller is just a crook. Which he would be IMO.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> My issue is with the price. As stated, it doesn't seem right to me. Unless tube prices have gone through the roof, etc.
> 
> I've owned those particular pair, and got them for much, much less than what's being listed.
> 
> ...


 
   
  No argument the prices can be all over the place. I have been watching Telefunkens going for some very high prices on e-bay. The Telefunkens have a good reputation and is getting harder to find and the prices are all over the board take a look at the search below sorted highest price first.  
   
  http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=telefunken+6922&_sop=16
   
  I have been having a ton of fun lately rolling tubes in my Pan Am. It can be voiced to sound similar to the Lyr with perhaps a slightly different sound stage and great sounding 6AK5 tubes can be had for $20.00 a pair.  I still use my Lyr a lot, but I am a lot more selective about how many tubes I buy for it since they often cost more.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bsn said:


> No argument the prices can be all over the place. I have been watching Telefunkens going for some very high prices on e-bay. The Telefunkens have a good reputation and is getting harder to find and the prices are all over the board take a look at the search below sorted highest price first.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=telefunken+6922&_sop=16
> 
> I have been having a ton of fun lately rolling tubes in my Pan Am. It can be voiced to sound similar to the Lyr with perhaps a slightly different sound stage and great sounding 6AK5 tubes can be had for $20.00 a pair.  I still use my Lyr a lot, but I am a lot more selective about how many tubes I buy for it since they often cost more.


 
  And they've always been all over the place. But those SEL were not very expensive at all.
  And I checked and the CV2492's are still going for $200. Which makes those SEL OUTRAGEOUSLY priced. IMO.
   
  The Pan Am is a fun amp, I'd personally only consider it for driving more sensitive cans.


----------



## Iamnothim

I paid $59.  But that's only because I didn't get the fancy red and white box  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Then again, maybe the nice man in Lithuania will include boxes.
   
  I knew they weren't top shelf tubes, but for $60 a mid 60's O getter is always nice.
  My listing did not say Yugo and I could not see a factory code in the photo.
  So be it.
   
  Thanks to the gent's in this thread for sharing their knowledge and providing guidance.   I now know better what differentiates Lorenz tubes and what a realistic price is.
  For that I am grateful.
   
  I do think the popularity of the Lry and the excitement  of tube rolling has driven prices up.
  I have enough nice sets in my collection that I can cool down and go bargain hunting.


----------



## Iamnothim

This might be a bargain.....   $125.00  each tube
   
*[size=large]PHILIPS / AMPEREX 6922   E88CC  Vacuum Tube.
 Golden Pins, Industrial Higher grade version of 6DJ8
 Made in Holland.
 Manufactured in Heerlen, Holland for and distributed by:
 ROGERS Electronic Tubes and Components,
 a devision of PHILIPS Electronics Industries Ltd.,
 Toronto, CANADA.
 New Old Stock (NOS).
 Original ROGERS Box.
 Manufacture Product / Date code: 7L4 / "delta"9G
 ( 6922 (4th revision) / Heerlen, Holland factory / July, 1959 )
 Few tubes from the same production batch available,
 Each tube individually tested and listed.[/size]*
   
   

   
   
I have 1960 Amprex "D" Getters USA  I paid $300
I love them.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Wait a minute. We bought the highly sought out after Stuttgart's for a cool $120 and those inferior bastards are justifiable at $200, er, $150.
> 
> OldSkool, dude, you owe me, say, an extra $100.


 

 No prob! Just finish HK_sends time-travel machine and go back and mark them up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  FWIW, I paid well above going rate for my first pair, then got a deal on my second pair. I'd say that evens things out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Dox, I agree that tube prices have gone thru the roof. But don't blame me, blame Schiit for coming out with a 6DJ8 rollable tube amp that everyone loves...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> No prob! Just finish HK_sends time-travel machine and go back and mark them up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hear! Hear!
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> This might be a bargain.....   $125.00  each tube
> 
> *[size=large]PHILIPS / AMPEREX 6922   E88CC  Vacuum Tube.
> Golden Pins, Industrial Higher grade version of 6DJ8
> ...


 
  Those look French made. More info please, I may know a guy who wants a set............. guess who????


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Those look French made. More info please, I may know a guy who wants a set............. guess who????


 
  Holland.
   
  They have the right triangle


----------



## 148124

what is important when pairing tubes for Lyr - balancing triodes inside of each tube or only matching all the triodes between the tubes ?
   
  I mean something like 18/15 for first tube and 18/15 for second would be great match as a 18/18 for first tube and 18/18 for second ? How does Lyr use tubes inside ? I know about voltage multiplier but for each channel 1 tube (2 triodes inside) ? so balancing doesnt matter at all ? normal pairing tubes will be enough ?


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





magicman said:


> what is important when pairing tubes for Lyr - balancing triodes inside of each tube or only matching all the triodes between the tubes ?
> 
> I mean something like 18/15 for first tube and 18/15 for second would be great match as a 18/18 for first tube and 18/18 for second ? How does Lyr use tubes inside ? I know about voltage multiplier but for each channel 1 tube (2 triodes inside) ? so balancing doesnt matter at all ? normal pairing tubes will be enough ?


 

 I beliieve the Lyr only uses 1 triode from each tube, meaning the first of your examples is more important..... unless you have a "triode flipper" socket to plug your tube(s) in through.  I'm sure someone will correct me if this is not right.


----------



## 148124

only 1 triode of each tube ??????? hmmm, Jason would be great person to clarify this ...


----------



## Iamnothim

6922 (E88CC)  RCA, Siemens, Telefunken, Amperex  Double Triode
   
  I have to look it up again but I believe that "C" is the designation for Triode.  Hence "CC" is double triode.    But it could be "88"
   
  Either way there are 2.
   
  I put a couple documents you may find interesting in a Dropbox.   Please make sure you keep them there for others.
   
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/moq4g2gjnfeysps/rI_SEEqiG2


----------



## Iamnothim

I'll also put a US Navy tube training course I found in the dropbox.
   
  Balancing is unnecessary with the Lyr.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





magicman said:


> what is important when pairing tubes for Lyr - balancing triodes inside of each tube or only matching all the triodes between the tubes ?
> 
> I mean something like 18/15 for first tube and 18/15 for second would be great match as a 18/18 for first tube and 18/18 for second ? How does Lyr use tubes inside ? I know about voltage multiplier but for each channel 1 tube (2 triodes inside) ? so balancing doesnt matter at all ? normal pairing tubes will be enough ?


 
   
  Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I beliieve the Lyr only uses 1 triode from each tube, meaning the first of your examples is more important..... unless you have a "triode flipper" socket to plug your tube(s) in through.  I'm sure someone will correct me if this is not right.


 
   
  Quote: 





magicman said:


> only 1 triode of each tube ??????? hmmm, Jason would be great person to clarify this ...


 
  Yes, the Lyr uses only one triode per tube.  Each triode handles a separate signal (channel).  That's why the little amps on e-bay like the Bravo and Indeed G2 can use a single 6922-family tube.  One triode handles handles the left channel and the other handles the right.  So for the Lyr, matched tubes are important while on the little amps that use one tube, having matched or balanced triodes in a single tube is most important.
   
  Hope that helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yes, they use only one triode per tube.  Each triode handles a separate signal (channel).  That's why the little amps on e-bay like the Bravo and Indeed G2 can use a single 6922-family tube.  One triode handles handles the left channel and the other handles the right.  So for the Lyr, matched tubes are important while on the little amps that use one tube, having matched or balanced triodes in a single tube is most important.
> 
> Hope that helps...
> 
> ...


 
  So the question is not how many triodes the tube has, but how many triodes in the tube are used by the Lyr?
   
  Got it.


----------



## Iamnothim

For those playing along at home.
   
  "E" is Heater voltage 6.3V
   
  I totally missed the thread.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yes, they use only one triode per tube.


 
   
  If that were the case, they'd be wasting the equivalent of a double-triode tube.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> So the question is not how many triodes the tube has, but how many triodes in the tube are used by the Lyr?
> 
> Got it.


 
  I edited my prevoius post to clarify what I meant...
  Sorry for the confusion.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oskari said:


> If that were the case, they'd be wasting the equivalent of a double-triode tube.


 
  Yes.  That's why the Triode Flippers can possibly extend the life of the tubes for the Lyr...if one triode starts sounding bad, flipping to the other triode may let you squeeze more life from the tube.  Wasteful?  Probably, but I am sure Jason and Co. considered the cost vs. the benefits.  In electronic (especially analog) design, there's some element of waste.  Two tubes keeps the signal paths separate...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yes.  That's why the Triode Flippers can possibly extend the life of the tubes for the Lyr...if one triode starts sounding bad, flipping to the other triode may let you squeeze more life from the tube.  Wasteful?  Probably, but I am sure Jason and Co. considered the cost vs. the benefits.  In electronic (especially analog) design, there's some element of waste.  Two tubes keeps the signal paths separate...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Makes perfect sense.
  Thanks


----------



## 148124

having different channels in separate tubes may reduce interchannel crosstalk ?
   
  normally it should be one tube and using both triodes (balanced tube) and that would reduce the cost to 1/2 total, so dont get it ...


----------



## SgtFarva

Hello!
   
  I am coming from a Asus Xonar DGX, a $50 sound card with a build in amp, and my experience with it has been great.
  I've recently bought the Schiit Lyr to pair with my HE-500 and sad to say, I'm a little disappointed with the Lyr. In my experience, found very little, if any sonic improvement. I guess my sound card was a great buy!
   
  I am looking to improve the sonic qualities of my amp by purchasing the correct tubes that fit my preferences but it has been a daunting task trying to read through all the posts. I'm looking to increase bass impact and extensions as well as open the sound stage and improve clarity. I don't need improvement in the mids but do not might if I get a little more sparkle in the treble. I can't stand the wooly warmth sound that you find on the "beats" headphones that make voices sound too bassy and unnatural. I guess you could say I like an analytical sound with tight, impactful, low extending bass. I'm using the stock GE 6BZ7.
   
  I think I'm looking at the 6N23P. Are these tubes still relevant? Or, are there other popular tubes I should consider? My budget is under $70 for a pair. Thank you, knowledgable HiFiers!


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I beliieve the Lyr only uses 1 triode from each tube, meaning the first of your examples is more important..... unless you have a "triode flipper" socket to plug your tube(s) in through.  I'm sure someone will correct me if this is not right.


 
   
  Sorry, nope. It uses both triodes in each tube.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Sorry, nope. It uses both triodes in each tube.


 
  Whoa, really?  Was I wrong!  I'm sorry everybody...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So Jason, can you expound a little?  How is it that some amps can run two channels through a single tube?
   
  Sorry again folks...
  -HK sends
   
  PS - So I guess the Triode Flippers are moot for the Lyr...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Whoa, really?  Was I wrong!  I'm sorry everybody...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Iamnothim

It's been said and I'm going to say it again.
   
  1965 Amprex Orange Globes (Herleen) are one heck of a bargain.
   
  I was hating my new LCD2 R2's.  Cables, breakin, etc.
  Rolled the Globes in and they Ate Them Up  !!!!
   
  What did I roll out?
  1960 Amprex USA D-getters
  4 x $


----------



## 148124

It's extra gain I guess using 2 triodes of one tube for one channel + separate tubes for each channel = lower crosstalk ?
   
  Jason could you clarify how these triodes are connected inside ? I mean does it matter if I get 18/15 & 18/15 tubes (1st triode/2nd triode) or do I have to get 18/18 & 18/18 tubes ?


----------



## SgtFarva

@Iamnothim
   
where can I find a matched pair from a reliable source?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sgtfarva said:


> @Iamnothim
> 
> where can I find a matched pair from a reliable source?


 
Tube documents...
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/moq4g2gjnfeysps/rI_SEEqiG2
  
 Many people buy from mercedesman6572 on eBay. 
 http://stores.ebay.com/TUBEHUNTER
  
 He's a straightforward, fair guy that is very concerned about his customers.  His listings will show the testing values
 from his B&K tube tester.  120 is the max on his machine.  Other tube sellers use different brand machines and they have different scales.   Just as the tubes, AKA "valves", are old so is the testing equipment.
  
 "Matched"  a matched tube from mercedesman might be described in the listing as 120 / 120.  Since 120 is the max value on the tester  this would be "testes as new".  120 for one triode 120 for the other.  A match.   These tubes would be "NOS / NIB"  New Old Stock or New In Box.  You pay more 50 year old new tube.  A lot of times tubes were sold in bulk to equipment mfg.'s. Tektronix test equipment as an example.  Bulk tubes might not have the colorful box.  Instead it's white with a lot of tube designations stamped on the box.
  
 Tubes are said to last from 6,000 to 10,000 and sometimes a lot longer.  A lot of the better tubes came from military applications.  "Milspec" demands a part be of a higher grade and last longer.  This is true for tubes, AKA "valves" too.
  
 I don't shy away from used tubes as long as the values are good.
  
 There are many designations for the same or compatible tube. The difference is usually manufacturer.
 Amperex, Mullard, Siemans, Philips, RCA, GE, Telefunken, La Radiotechnique, Valo, and Lorenz, Philips to name a few.
 Some equivalent tube part numbers are    6DJ8, ECC88, E88CC, E188CC, 6922, CV2492, CV2493, Caa, 7DJ8 and PCC88.
 The latter two are 7V as opposed to the standard 6.3V.  They work fine and are said to last longer.
 E188CC, 6922, and E188CC are said to be a better grade.  To make it interesting some mfg.'s, like Philips / Amperex, made tubes for other brands.
  
 What are you paying for?  A couple factors.
 Age.  Tubes from the late 50's through the 60's are sought out.  In one discussion here posted that more rare earth metals were used then.
 Manufacturer and factory.  Many mfg.'s had multiple plants.  As an example Amperex made tubes in NY, USA and in Herleen Netherlands, among others.
 Tube design.  Shields and Getters.  The getter is a structure at the top of the tube under the shinny coating.  There are "D" getters, "O" getters, Dimple disc getters.  etc.  The might be held up by a single wire or an "A" frame.  The getter contributes a lot to a tube's sound signature.
  
 The code.  This is the fun part.  How to decipher the code that is either painted or etched on the tube.  There isn't much of a standard and it changes by date and mfg..   But it usually contains yet another tube type designation, city code, and date.
  
 As an example a small triangle designates Herleen Netherlands.  SInce Amperex is the only mfg with a plant in Herleen the triangle means Amperex in Holland.
  
 And on and on and on…
  
 My usual disclaimer below applies…… I am quite confident that  errors and omissions will be pointed out after this discourse is read by The Committee of Tube Elders.


----------



## HK_sends

Well, you notice I'm not opening my mouth again...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Getting good iam! The only sentence I take issue with is, "The getter contributes a lot to a tube's sound signature".
The getter is only used to absorb gas impurities, the different shapes can mostly be used to determine the age of the tube. Thats why "D" getters are more sought after, they were used in the older 50/early 60s tubes. The getter shouldn't affect the sound.


----------



## Iamnothim

Oh Oracle of the Getter....
   
  Thank you for the clarification.
   
  Your humble tube apprentice.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hah it's all good

Now go do my biddings...:mad:


----------



## Iamnothim

squeak squeak...


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> As an example Amperex made tubes in NY, USA and in Herleen Netherlands, among others.


 
   
  US, yes. Netherlands, no. *Philips*, the owner of Amperex, made tubes in *Heerlen*, among others, also to be branded Amperex for the US market.
   


> As an example a small triangle designates Herleen Netherlands. SInce Amperex is the only mfg with a plant in Herleen the triangle means *Amperex in Holland*.


 
   
  No such thing. The right triangle identifies Philips Heerlen production.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





oskari said:


> US, yes. Netherlands, no. *Philips*, the owner of Amperex, made tubes in *Heerlen*, among others, also to be branded Amperex for the US market.
> 
> 
> No such thing. The right triangle identifies Philips Heerlen production.


 
  I used "Philips / Amprex" in the post and I interchanged them as a company.  I make this mistake often.
   
  I am aware that Philips made product for several companies under different brand names.
  I am aware that Amperex is a brand and not a company.  Correct "Amperex cannot make tubes.
  I spelled Herleen wrong.  Again.
  Philips Factory Valve Codes Guide does indeed list Philips Herleen (oops) next to the right triangle symbol.
  The word "Amperex" cannot be found in this guide.
   
  Yet on the Philips tubes below the word Philips cannot be found.
  There are many Philips tubes that don't say Philips on them.
   
  So to the uneducated the tubes below that say "Made in Holland"
  I guess Philips didn't want to waste ink on Netherlands.
  "Amperex" with a little triangle might be misconstrued as the Amperex Company.
  I just didn't want to write this paragraph in the other post.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I am aware that Amperex is a brand and not a company.  Correct "Amperex cannot make tubes.


 
   
  It was a company all right, a US subsidiary of Philips. Amperex _did_ make tubes in the US. The parent company made them in the Netherlands. A multitude of Philips subsidiaries made them in many other places, Valvo in Germany, Mullard in Great Britain, Radiotechnique in France, etc.
   


> Philips Factory Valve Codes Guide does indeed list Philips Herleen (oops) next to the right triangle symbol.
> The word "Amperex" cannot be found in this guide.


 

   
  Sure it can, right next to the ∗ symbol.


----------



## Iamnothim

oskari said:


> It was a company all right, a US subsidiary of Philips. Amperex _did_ make tubes in the US. The parent company made them in the Netherlands. A multitude of Philips subsidiaries made them in many other places, Valvo in Germany, Mullard in Great Britain, Radiotechnique in France, etc.
> 
> 
> Sure it can, right next to the ∗
> symbol.



You are correct.
I'm a big ugly stupid rude American.


----------



## MickeyVee

Speaking of Amperex - I really like the 1969 Orange Globes Dimple Getter that I'm using right now - going to try some Bugle Boys
  http://www.nostubestore.com/2010/04/amperex-bugle-boy-6dj8ecc88-holland.html 
  Has anyone purchase form here?


----------



## Iamnothim

mickeyvee said:


> Speaking of Amperex - I really like the 1969 Orange Globes Dimple Getter that I'm using right now - going to try some Bugle Boys
> http://www.nostubestore.com/2010/04/amperex-bugle-boy-6dj8ecc88-holland.html
> Has anyone purchase form here?




I'm chiming in again. Can't help myself.
I haven't bought from them.

I too have the dimple getters. Mine are 69. I like them a lot. 

IMO. Repeat IMO
I didn't care for the Bugle Boys. 

I would take a pass and try some Lorenz or La Radiotechniques. 
I've ordered a set of each. $60 for the Lorenz but not the top end Lorenz by any means.
$120 for the L's

Again. I haven't heard them yet but a lot of folks on the thread love them.


----------



## Iamnothim

mickeyvee said:


> Speaking of Amperex - I really like the 1969 Orange Globes Dimple Getter that I'm using right now - going to try some Bugle Boys
> http://www.nostubestore.com/2010/04/amperex-bugle-boy-6dj8ecc88-holland.html
> Has anyone purchase form here?




I'm chiming in again. Can't help myself.
I haven't bought from them.

I too have the dimple getters. Mine are 69. I like them a lot. 

IMO. Repeat IMO
I didn't care for the Bugle Boys. 

I would take a pass and try some Lorenz or La Radiotechniques. 
I've ordered a set of each. $60 for the Lorenz but not the top end Lorenz by any means.
$120 for the L's

Again. I haven't heard them yet but a lot of folks on the thread love them.


----------



## Iamnothim

Speaking of Orange Globes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321062040828?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D321062040828%26_rdc%3D1


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Speaking of Orange Globes.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321062040828?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D321062040828%26_rdc%3D1


 

 Great tubes and great seller.
   
  I have heard 1967 and 1968 versions of this tube. Did Amperex only manufacture the Orange Globe/halo 6DJ8 for those 2 years before switching to the A-frame/dimple getter? Anyone know?


----------



## OldSkool

About the Bugle Boys...I agree with Iamnothim. Unfortunately, they always sound kinda average in my audio chain. YMMV.
   
  Man, I WANT to like them. I love that little cartoon tube blowing that trumpet like he's Miles Davis! But everytime I roll them in, I just don't hear the magic.


----------



## MickeyVee

OK Thanks all - maybe I'll just pick up another pair of Orange Globes - really like them.
   
  OldSkool - what's your fav tube with the HE500? I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on them.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> About the Bugle Boys...I agree with Iamnothim. Unfortunately, they always sound kinda average in my audio chain. YMMV.
> 
> Man, I WANT to like them. I love that little cartoon tube blowing that trumpet like he's Miles Davis! But everytime I roll them in, I just don't hear the magic.


 
   
  Interesting. I've got a matched pair of 1967 Bugle Boy O getters and find them absolutely competitive with my 1971 Amperex A frames. Both are good. The Amperex is silky, the Bugle Boys have more space and a slightly more sparkly high end. In fact I may even prefer the BBs.
   
  But... I've got my HD-650s plugged into a Burson Soloist right now, and I'm liking what I'm hearing. Blasphemy!!!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Great tubes and great seller.
> 
> I have heard 1967 and 1968 versions of this tube. Did Amperex only manufacture the Orange Globe/halo 6DJ8 for those 2 years before switching to the A-frame/dimple getter? Anyone know?


 
  So are my 69's unusual in that they are a single post dimple getter?
   
   
  @ Oskari,
   
  About all the other stuff.  I really don't mind being corrected.  In fact I consider it a good thing.
  Sarcasm aside.  You are 100% correct.  Thanks


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> OK Thanks all - maybe I'll just pick up another pair of Orange Globes - really like them.
> 
> OldSkool - what's your fav tube with the HE500? I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on them.


 

 With the HE-500's, I gotta say the Mullard CV2493 is my current favorite. Everyone hears things differently, but I like how the CV2493 has these smooth, warm mids, nice detail, and an overall sound that's slightly laid-back.
   
  The Orange Globes are more forward with nice detail and really shine with the Senn 650's, at least to my ears. 
   
  Very glad to hear that you're gonna get the HE500's....I bet you will love them.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> So are my 69's unusual in that they are a single post dimple getter?


 
  Maybe so. My '67 and '68 6DJ8 Orange Globes are Halo getters. I don't have a '69, but my '70, 71, '72 and '75 are all A-Frame w/ dimple getter.
   
  Was 1969 a transitional year? How about '66? Maybe the tube gurus will enlighten us rookies again.


----------



## Iamnothim

oldskool said:


> Maybe so. My '67 and '68 6DJ8 Orange Globes are Halo getters. I don't have a '69, but my '70, 71, '72 and '75 are all A-Frame w/ dimple getter.
> 
> Was 1969 a transitional year? How about '66? Maybe the tube gurus will enlighten us rookies again.




Summon the Oracle(s)

Ps. Ya need to get another set of OG's


----------



## SgtFarva

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Speaking of Orange Globes.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321062040828?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D321062040828%26_rdc%3D1


 
   
  Heh. I sniped a pair. Really excited to try my hand at tube rolling.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Ps. Ya need to get another set of OG's


 
  Ya think? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Searching on Google, it looks like your '69 OG's are indeed special and semi-rare. Better hang on to them...


----------



## SgtFarva

Those OGs got bought up pretty quick haha!


----------



## jamato8

I have orange globes, white, PQ, A frame, Bugle Boy (just branded with the bugle boy but they look neat and supposed to be special audio quality) O getter, gold pin, they all make me happy. All NOS, was lucky when a TV store went out years ago with a crazy supply of about 150 nos in all types of Amperex. One of those things you read or dream about. I have some Amperex shown to be Gt. Britain but really Russian and they are the best 6DJ8 I have ever heard. It's all good.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I have orange globes, white, PQ, A frame, Bugle Boy (just branded with the bugle boy but they look neat and supposed to be special audio quality) O getter, gold pin, they all make me happy. All NOS, was lucky when a TV store went out years ago with a crazy supply of about 150 nos in all types of Amperex. One of those things you read or dream about. I have some Amperex shown to be Gt. Britain but really Russian and they are the best 6DJ8 I have ever heard. It's all good.


 
  I have this vivid image of a TV store in Alaska.....


----------



## gmahler2u

is this Orange Globe 6DJ8 1969?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> is this Orange Globe 6DJ8 1969?


 
  They were 1967, "O" getters.
  I think he sold all 8 sets in one day.


----------



## gmahler2u

Yes...I just picked one up.  I guess I should look for different year orange globe.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Yes...I just picked one up.  I guess I should look for different year orange globe.
> 
> Thanks


 
  Nothing wrong with 67's  You should like those a lot.
   
  Your signature says you have a Valhalla.  Do you have a Lyr as well?
  Because, I have no idea how these tubes will sound in a Valhalla.  Just because the Lyr likes them doesn't mean the Valhalla will.
   
  Someone more knowledgeable will provide the answers.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Nothing wrong with 67's  You should like those a lot.
> 
> Your signature says you have a Valhalla.  Do you have a Lyr as well?
> Because, I have no idea how these tubes will sound in a Valhalla.  Just because the Lyr likes them doesn't mean the Valhalla will.
> ...


 

 So far, Bugle boy tube (1960) and orangle label a frame sounds good.  It's first for me to get tube instrument so it sounds warm and tubby.
  with my hd800, it sounds more alive.  I felt more body. 
  with asgard I did really felt asgard has power, with Valhalla I felt sudden power from the amp.  That doesn't mean Asgard is bad, I love this amp, therefore I can't sell it.
  Also, Asgard loves my lcd2.  Maybe near future I'll just get the Lyr.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> So far, Bugle boy tube (1960) and orangle label a frame sounds good.  It's first for me to get tube instrument so it sounds warm and tubby.
> with my hd800, it sounds more alive.  I felt more body.
> with asgard I did really felt asgard has power, with Valhalla I felt sudden power from the amp.  That doesn't mean Asgard is bad, I love this amp, therefore I can't sell it.
> Also, Asgard loves my lcd2.  Maybe near future I'll just get the Lyr.


 
  Hi Gustav,
  (I have to address you as that with your screen name) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Please don't misunderstand.  My knowledge and experience with the Valhalla is Zero.
  The Valhalla is probably a great amp, just entirely different.
  Valhalla is all tube, Lyr is a hybrid tube/ss
   
  I asked because I was concerned that I might represent the OG's as good for either amp.
  I don't know.
  All-the-best.


----------



## gmahler2u

It's all good here


----------



## 148124

still know nothing about balancing tubes ...


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

for all the amperex fans I just saw this quad on audiogon http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6922-pinched-waist-quad-nos-nib-e88cc-6dj8-2013-01-09-accessories-95661-roseville-ca

if anyone can afford it post impressions so I can live vicariously through your lyr.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> for all the amperex fans I just saw this quad on audiogon http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6922-pinched-waist-quad-nos-nib-e88cc-6dj8-2013-01-09-accessories-95661-roseville-ca
> 
> if anyone can afford it post impressions so I can live vicariously through your lyr.


 
   
  There's a lot of novelty cost in those valves.
   
  **If you pay more than $500 a pair you have to call them valves.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

iamnothim said:


> There's a lot of novelty cost in those valves.
> 
> **If you pay more than $500 a pair you have to call them valves.




For $700 a pair they get the full title of thermionic valve


----------



## BobJS

At that price, I expect my amp to play originally composed music in direct response to my verbal request.


----------



## Iamnothim

*If you are an egg-head this is great:*


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Nothing wrong with 67's  You should like those a lot.
> 
> Your signature says you have a Valhalla.  Do you have a Lyr as well?
> Because, I have no idea how these tubes will sound in a Valhalla.  Just because the Lyr likes them doesn't mean the Valhalla will.
> ...


 
   
  There are a few (? I don't have the data at hand) tubes that the Lyr and Valhalla have in common -- which are compatible ([size=small]6DJ8, ECC88 for instance).[/size]
   
  [size=small]I too am trying a pair of Amperex, A-frame, 1971 Holland, in the Valhalla .................. they're the best I've had in there .. very pleased. [/size]


----------



## gmahler2u

can anyone loan me pair of Siemens cca tubes?  thanks


----------



## gmahler2u

is this tube working with Lyr?
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/La_Radiotechnique_12AT7WA_NOS_NIB_France_ECC81_Pro_p/1156.htm


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> is this tube working with Lyr?
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/La_Radiotechnique_12AT7WA_NOS_NIB_France_ECC81_Pro_p/1156.htm


 
  No.  Wrong type.
   
  Needs to be an ECC88  or E88CC or 6922 or E188CC or .....  
   
  6DJ8
   
  One generalization is look for the "88"
   
  There are more that will work.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> No.  Wrong type.
> 
> Needs to be an ECC88  or E88CC or 6922 or E188CC or .....
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you sure!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> No.  Wrong type.
> 
> Needs to be an ECC88  or E88CC or 6922 or E188CC or .....
> 
> ...


 

 or PCC88 or 7308 or 7DJ8 or 6BQ7A or 6CG7 or CV2492 or CV2493.
   
  Did we leave any out?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> or PCC88 or 7308 or 7DJ8 or 6BQ7A or 6CG7 or CV2492 or CV2493.
> 
> Did we leave any out?


 

 how about CCa?


----------



## Iamnothim

La Radiotechniques 
E188CC
Dope


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> La Radiotechniques
> E188CC
> Dope


 
  +1


----------



## 148124

what is Jason's opinion about using pcc88 in Lyr ? there is wrong voltage (7V instead of 6.3V), are you sure this is safe for the tubes / amplifier ? I know about  auto bias in Lyr but still ...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





magicman said:


> what is Jason's opinion about using pcc88 in Lyr ? there is wrong voltage (7V instead of 6.3V), are you sure this is safe for the tubes / amplifier ? I know about  auto bias in Lyr but still ...


 
  My guess is Jason will tow the factory line.
   
  The tube is receiving the voltage, not generating it.  Hence the higher V rating will not harm the Lyr.
  What does happen is 6.3V is enough heater voltage for a PCC88 / 7DJ8 valve to work.
   
  The spillover benefit, supposedly, is that a PCC88 should last longer.
  EDIT:  You aren't cooking the heater as hard.


----------



## gmahler2u

question.
   
  is this right tube for lyr?
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/170979415841?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> question.
> 
> is this right tube for lyr?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/170979415841?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619


 
  Yes.
  It's a 6922.
   
  That is a valuable / rare pair of tubes.
  There are 21 bids at the moment and I expect it will close near $500
   
  I believe I read that the pinched waist were more of a mfg. defect.
  My suspicions are the value is more in the novelty rather than the sound.
  At least the incremental sound benefit from a $300 set of tubes.
   
  EDIT:
  I think they would be wasted on a Valhalla.
  They may shine in a Lyr.
  Save the $500.  Buy the Lyr.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

gmahler2u said:


> question.
> 
> is this right tube for lyr?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/170979415841?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619




Yeah they will work fine for the lyr. However I don't know anything about eBay tube sellers so I can tell how legit the tubes are.


----------



## gmahler2u

Thank you....I was bidding and I wasn't really sure about this tube.
  I should just stick with cheap tube.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

iam it maybe more than novelty, member lord soth likes them more than lorenz Stuttgarts, he even had the nearly impossible to find lorenz cca. Haven't seen him on the thread in a minute,but if he sees this maybe he can expand on the benefits of the old amperex.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Thank you....I was bidding and I wasn't really sure about this tube.
> I should just stick with cheap tube.


 
  I just reread the auction.
  I only read the Headline before.
   
  Looks like they are "very" used as well.
  They shouldn't go near $500 but they might no sound good at all.  Stay away.
   
  IMO... Make an educated decision and look around for a nice "moderate" pair.  $150 to $200.  
  Keep asking about tubes on the thread.  I don't mind giving you my 2 cents. Others have a far more extensive collection.
   
  @fear pointed me to the E188CC La Radiotechniques I was gushing about above.  Although mine just happened to be made in Heerlen
  they still sound like nothing else I own.  Labeled "RTC" 1965 large "O" getter gold pin, NIB.  Might just be "SQ" Orange Globes.  No matter.
  I paid $140, shipped from Spain.  I consider those a good deal.
  This is merely an example.
   
  However if you should happen to stumble upon a bargain and post it, the tubes will no longer be a bargain.
  We won't do that to Gustav on his first tube buy.... will we... guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have zero experience with a Valhalla and I am terrible biased to what I own.
  You have LCD2's.  Get a Lyr to go with them.  There,  I said it.  Twice.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> iam it maybe more than novelty, member lord soth likes them more than lorenz Stuttgarts, he even had the nearly impossible to find lorenz cca. Haven't seen him on the thread in a minute,but if he sees this maybe he can expand on the benefits of the old amperex.


 
  I'd be interested in hearing more about them.
  My comment was just a knee jerk opinion.
  That's because I tend to be a jerk.
   
  And don't think I don't lust for a sweet pair of those tubes.


----------



## Iamnothim

Now if I lived in a cool old house, I could go up into my magic attic and tell my wife I found a pair.
  Alas, this does not work in a ten year old home.


----------



## gmahler2u

I wish I had money grow in tree 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I can get Lyr.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I wish I had money grow in tree
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Let me help you rationalize this.
   
  Lyr:  $450
  Valhalla $350
   
  Difference:  $100
  Estimated loss from selling used Valhalla $100
  Total difference: $200
   
  You were bidding on tubes at $120
  Cost requiring rationalization:  $80


----------



## gmahler2u

Sounds interesting, I need some time to sell the valhalla.  I can't just sell it right away...sad news for the valhalla, love this amp.


----------



## Iamnothim

gmahler2u said:


> Sounds interesting, I need some time to sell the valhalla.  I can't just sell it right away...sad news for the valhalla, love this amp.




audio advisors.com. Has a very liberal return policy. 
You could order one and try it for a week and return it if you like your Valhalla better.

Another thought sometimes the sellers have "refurbished" gear for less. Such as product that was returned after as short while.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Let me help you rationalize this.
> 
> Lyr:  $450
> Valhalla $350
> ...


 
   
  Fantastic ..... please provide rationalization for my quitting my job and becoming a professional audiophile.  Feel free to make up your own supporting documentation.


----------



## gmahler2u

Man...i feel awful...buy another amp making me sick...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Man...i feel awful...buy another amp making me sick...


 
  I didn't apply the burger-flick effect.
   
  If you stay home and listen to your new Lyr, rather than grab a burger and see a movie, you've actually made $25


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I didn't apply the burger-flick effect.
> 
> If you stay home and listen to your new Lyr, rather than grab a burger and see a movie, you've actually made $25


 

 yeah...I guess I was trying sell my portable gear anyways...i think this is the time to do it...


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Man...i feel awful...buy another amp making me sick...


 
   
  Stay off the forum and listen to some music. Think about it.


----------



## Corryvrecken

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Stay off the forum and listen to some music. Think about it.


 
   
  this is good advice, while i am very happy with the Lyr i think the HD650s sound good on a wide range of tube amps.  Many people own and enjoy the Valhalla, maybe look into some more reasonably priced tubes to roll in it instead of going for very expensive ones.  This forum is rediculous about talking people into upgrading.  Not everyone is Bill Gates.  Hell i bet even Warren Buffet (assuming he were an audiophile) wouldn't spend more than $100 on a pair of tubes and that guy is a billionaire.  I think he's worn the same tie for 10+yrs!


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> iam it maybe more than novelty, member lord soth likes them more than lorenz Stuttgarts, he even had the nearly impossible to find lorenz cca. Haven't seen him on the thread in a minute,but if he sees this maybe he can expand on the benefits of the old amperex.


 
   
  Yes, I posted a Lorenz Stuttgart review over here sometime back.
   
  The pinched waist Amperex is really the best sounding tube as per Joe's tube lore.
  It sounds better than the Lorenz PCC88 in the mids and treble.
  However the pinched waist loses out to the Lorenz tube on the visceral impact at the low end, I.e. bass.
  The sound stage is also larger for the Lorenz tube.
   
  The normal Amperex which I also have has about 90% of the sonics of the pinched waist.
   
  The law of diminishing returns really applies here.
  $$$$ wise, I would be happy with only the normal Amperex tubes.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Yes, I posted a Lorenz Stuttgart review over here sometime back.
> 
> The pinched waist Amperex is really the best sounding tube as per Joe's tube lore.
> It sounds better than the Lorenz PCC88 in the mids and treble.
> ...


 
  Great advice!  Lord Soth really knows his tubes which is why he's a "Lord" and I am a "City"...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Just kidding about the name thing...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  "HK" is derived from my name and "Heckler and Koch"...no, really
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Some of the problems with the expensive pinched waste is they can go noisy, and for the price, this is not fun.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Great advice!  Lord Soth really knows his tubes which is why he's a "Lord" and I am a "City"...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Is you son's name Sig?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Some of the problems with the expensive pinched waste is they can go noisy, and for the price, this is not fun.


 
  But they make dandy Christmas ornaments.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> But they make dandy Christmas ornaments.


 
   
  If your other half is also into audio, a pair of earrings perhaps?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> If your other half is also into audio, a pair of earrings perhaps?


 
  bad ass !


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Great advice!  Lord Soth really knows his tubes which is why he's a "Lord" and I am a "City"...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Considering how much I spent on those "Christmas Ornaments", my "lordship" will have to be put on sale soon. 
   
  BTW, it's great to catchup again with the usual tube loving folks such as HK Sends  and DailydoseofDaly..... Etc.


----------



## Iamnothim

Any idea where I can buy a multi tap transformer to use in my tube tester rebuild project?
  Mine leaks
  I am going to strip the tester down to 9 pin tubes only.  The heater is (of course)  6.3V
  Is the plate voltage 30V  ? 
   
  I also want to build in test taps, using orphaned tube sockets, for a multimeter and an oscilloscope.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

@ soth
Yeah man, did you pick up anything good or unusual recently?


----------



## Iamnothim

This tube jewelry thing could be Huge.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> @ soth
> Yeah man, did you pick up anything good or unusual recently?


 
   
  Tubes wise, I finally managed to pick up a Lorenz CCa (3 mica).
  The last time I posted my Lorenz Stuttgart shootout impressions over here, that was the only missing link in my Lorenz tube collection.
  Except for the CCa (3 Mica), I managed to cover the entire range of 3 Mica vs 2 Mica
  and
  the CCa vs PCC88 vs E88CC variants the last time.
   
  Headphones wise , I've finally upgraded to a Beyer T1 from my DT880.


----------



## SgtFarva

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> The normal Amperex which I also have has about 90% of the sonics of the pinched waist.


 
   
  And which Amperex would that be?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Any idea where I can buy a multi tap transformer to use in my tube tester rebuild project?
> Mine leaks
> I am going to strip the tester down to 9 pin tubes only.  The heater is (of course)  6.3V
> Is the plate voltage 30V  ?
> ...


 
  If anyone is interested in getting a customized tube tester, please feel free to PM me.
   
  i've got a contact in France who is a tube tester engineering genius ala Leonardo Da Vinci.
  For about €200, he helped me build a customised tube tester for 2 preamp and 1 Output tubes.
  It comes with a digital LCD which can provide readings accurate to 1 decimal place.
   
  The only catch is that you have to provide your own box.
  I used a wooden Kleenex Tissue box holder for that purpose.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





sgtfarva said:


> And which Amperex would that be?


 
  By normal, I'm referring to the other USA* Amperex tubes with Grey Shields.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

lord soth said:


> Tubes wise, I finally managed to pick up a Lorenz CCa (3 mica).
> The last time I posted my Lorenz Stuttgart shootout impressions over here, that was the only missing link in my Lorenz tube collection.
> Except for the CCa (3 Mica), I managed to cover the entire range of 3 Mica vs 2 Mica
> and
> ...




Well if you update your Lorenz reveiw, please repost it. I would love to see how the 3mica cca stacks up against the rest. The 7dj8 Lorenz 3mica was my favorite tube pair for the lyr, so I'm sure the cca version is pretty sweet.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Tubes wise, I finally managed to pick up a Lorenz CCa (3 mica).
> The last time I posted my Lorenz Stuttgart shootout impressions over here, that was the only missing link in my Lorenz tube collection.
> Except for the CCa (3 Mica), I managed to cover the entire range of 3 Mica vs 2 Mica
> and
> ...


 

 I've performed the same identical upgrade, headphone wise.  Tube-wise, I'm content for now on the diminished end of the diminishing returns curve.


----------



## SgtFarva

Please excuse my ignorance, I'm new to tubes and I'm trying to learn a little more about them.
   
  What is a grey shield? Is it the grey little boxes within the tube? Looks like all the tubes that the Lyr takes have grey shields.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

You are referring to the plates, there are two smaller rectange pieces on opposite sides of the plates, that run from the top to bottom of the mica(thin metal horizontal circle). These are the sheilds and are commonly a chrome/silver color, if it matches the color of the plates(grey) that indicates its an older tube.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Is you son's name Sig?


 
  No, it's Glock. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Well if you update your Lorenz reveiw, please repost it. I would love to see how the 3mica cca stacks up against the rest. The 7dj8 Lorenz 3mica was my favorite tube pair for the lyr, so I'm sure the cca version is pretty sweet.


 
   
  I'll update that Lorenz Stuttgart review .......
  ......
  ......
  ............. eventually......
  .........
  Mr " Skull and Bones" over here used to call me Lord SLOTH.
  i'll just have to move my lazy butt..... 
   
  Yes, the 3 Mica variants seem to be more balanced from top to bottom sonically.
  I prefer their sonics over the 2 Mica variety.


----------



## BobJS

@HK .... like your new avatar .... is that new direct to space and back again vehicle?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Hah yeah that's sounds like him.
No hurry I was just curious how it faired against the rest of the lot.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> You are referring to the plates, there are two smaller rectange pieces on opposite sides of the plates, that run from the top to bottom of the mica(thin metal horizontal circle). These are the sheilds and are commonly a chrome/silver color, if it matches the color of the plates(grey) that indicates its an older tube.


 
   
  Mica is mica.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  (not metal, which would be electrically conductive, etc.)
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mica


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Good call, makes sense


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> @HK .... like your new avatar .... is that new direct to space and back again vehicle?


 
  No, that's the HL-10 lifting body that was used for testing in the 70's to help determine the best design for the space shuttle.  If you ever watched "The Six Million Dollar Man", that's the vehicle he "supposedly" had the crash in (although the only actual lifting body to crash was the M2-F3...the film of which was used in the opeining credits to represent Steve Austin's crash).  The good news is the pilot of the M2-F3 escaped with only minor injuries.
   
  Lord Soth - how do the Lorenz CCa tubes compare to the 3-mica?  I wish someone could find another stash...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Mica is mica.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  True!  However, I have seen some references and some tube sellers call the Siemen's tubes "tri-mica" even when there was just the two mica layers and the metal plate.  I really don't know why though...but they do seem to sound different from the "two mica" versions.
   
  Just my observations...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> True!  However, I have seen some references and some tube sellers call the Siemen's tubes "tri-mica" even when there was just the two mica layers and the metal plate.  I really don't know why though...but they do seem to sound different from the "two mica" versions.
> 
> Just my observations...
> 
> ...


 

 If they are describing a tube with a metal plate as a third mica then it is just the lack of knowledge that was common to tube users when tubes were standard in everything that required them vs solid state. I was a radioman in the navy and all equipment except a couple of pieces had tubes. Just because someone sells tubes, even a lot of them, doesn't mean they really know tubes. I used to talk with a designer of the RCA tubes who had patents through RCA. It was a joy talking with him about circuits. It is a language but starts with correct understanding of the properties of tubes and goes from there. They are just a plug in circuit, which is what makes them fun, you can easily change the circuit, within certain parameters of course.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> If they are describing a tube with a metal plate as a third mica then it is just the lack of knowledge that was common to tube users when tubes were standard in everything that required them vs solid state. I was a radioman in the navy and all equipment except a couple of pieces had tubes. Just because someone sells tubes, even a lot of them, doesn't mean they really know tubes. I used to talk with a designer of the RCA tubes who had patents through RCA. It was a joy talking with him about circuits. It is a language but starts with correct understanding of the properties of tubes and goes from there. They are just a plug in circuit, which is what makes them fun, you can easily change the circuit, within certain parameters of course.


 
  I agree it's probably due to lack of knowledge (it definitely is on my part).  All I can say is the top disk in the Lorenz 3-mica tubes looked like mica.  Anytime I looked at a Siemens tube that was advertised as a "tri-mica", I could only count two.  So maybe I'm not (so) crazy after all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Then again...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

sending pm instead..


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> No, that's the HL-10 lifting body that was used for testing in the 70's to help determine the best design for the space shuttle.  If you ever watched "The Six Million Dollar Man", that's the vehicle he .............
> 
> Lord Soth - how do the Lorenz CCa tubes compare to the 3-mica?  I wish someone could find another stash...
> 
> ...


 
  Hi HK,
   
  Your new avatar is really Retro "cool" and groovy in an Austin Powers kind of way! 
   
  I really lucked out on the Lorenz CCa "3 Mica" via EBay.
  Won the pair for less than US$90.
   
  As for the sonics, it will take some time before I can provide any input.
  I prefer to burn them in for at least 100 hrs so as to level the playing field for a sonic comparison.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I agree it's probably due to lack of knowledge (it definitely is on my part).  All I can say is the top disk in the Lorenz 3-mica tubes looked like mica.  Anytime I looked at a Siemens tube that was advertised as a "tri-mica", I could only count two.  So maybe I'm not (so) crazy after all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, I agree that strictly speaking the Lorenz 3 mica is a 2 mica with an extra plastic ( i think) top disc.
   
  however the "3 mica" name has kinda become deeply entrenched in the minds of most Lorenz Stuttgart tube fans.
  So we kinda know which variant we are referring when we mention either "2 Mica" or "3 Mica" Lorenz tubes.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Yes, I agree that strictly speaking the Lorenz 3 mica is a 2 mica with an extra plastic ( i think) top disc.


 
   
  Plastics would outgas, a faux pas when you need to maintain a vacuum.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Plastics would outgas, a faux pas when you need to maintain a vacuum.


 
  Yes, a thin sheet of glass then?


----------



## Oskari

Why not mica?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Why not mica?


 
  The top layer is transparent and unlike the usual opaque mica layers below.


----------



## Oskari

A sheet of mica can be transparent as well.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





oskari said:


> A sheet of mica can be transparent as well.


 
   
  The mica plates in vacuum tubes are usually opaque.
   
  Any ideas why the manufacturer  would choose to use 2 opaque ones 
  and a clear and transparent one on top?


----------



## Oskari

Perhaps it's simply different stock. The third mica is often thinner.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> The mica plates in vacuum tubes are usually opaque.
> 
> Any ideas why the manufacturer  would choose to use 2 opaque ones
> and a clear and transparent one on top?


 
  So they can see through it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> So they can see through it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  mine are 27 mica.
  you just can't see them


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> mine are 27 mica.
> you just can't see them


 




   
  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> I'll update that Lorenz Stuttgart review .......
> ......
> ......
> ............. eventually......
> ...


 

 My Jesting with you was all in good fun my only beef at the time was simple I would get 20 private messages asking where they could find the Lorenz that we all love you and I well know these tubes are like needles in a Hay stack if you understood that I had to answer ohhh over 40 people because of your bringing up the Lorenz as if any of us can just go pick them up (quite frustrating)  Not personal I think you are a fine guy.. I just do not like talking about tubes seriously that are just about as rare as a White Tiger. It was all in good fun my friend I am quite interested in your CCa review as well. If I cared to I could get them I know what equipment they were used in so that is one source that people forget about anyway that was a hint...


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> My Jesting with you was all in good fun my only beef at the time was simple I would get 20 private messages asking where they could find the Lorenz that we all love you and I well know these tubes are like needles in a Hay stack if you understood that I had to answer ohhh over 40 people because of your bringing up the Lorenz as if any of us can just go pick them up (quite frustrating)  Not personal I think you are a fine guy.. I just do not like talking about tubes seriously that are just about as rare as a White Tiger. It was all in good fun my friend I am quite interested in your CCa review as well. If I cared to I could get them I know what equipment they were used in so that is one source that people forget about anyway that was a hint...


 

 NOW you'll get PMs ....


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello.
   
  Where do you store your tubes?


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hello.
> 
> Where do you store your tubes?


 
   In jewelery boxes with a few silica gels packs under the tray.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> The mica plates in vacuum tubes are usually opaque.
> 
> Any ideas why the manufacturer  would choose to use 2 opaque ones
> and a clear and transparent one on top?


 

 The properties are a little different. There is very clear mica, as in the 1952 Sylvania 6SN7. No plastic would ever be used in a tube, it is way to hot. Mica just works great and is abundant.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hello.
> 
> Where do you store your tubes?


 

 In a drawer in my home office. My wife has been instructed that if the house catches on fire and I'm not home, after she makes sure our child and dog are safely outside, to get that tube drawer outside if at all humanly possible.
   
  "Honey, we can replace our wedding album pictures, but they're not making any more 1959 D-getters!"


----------



## Iamnothim

It's great to read posts from the Tube Titans all on the same page.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

iamnothim said:


> It's great to read posts from the Tube Titans all on the same page.




Not all though haven't seen misterrogers in awhile, wonder if he is still in the tube game. Hk have you guys hung out in awhile?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Not all though haven't seen misterrogers in awhile, wonder if he is still in the tube game. Hk have you guys hung out in awhile?


 
  He's probably been busy with Joe Audio.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> In a drawer in my home office. My wife has been instructed that if the house catches on fire and I'm not home, after she makes sure our child and dog are safely outside, to get that tube drawer outside if at all humanly possible.
> 
> "Honey, we can replace our wedding album pictures, but they're not making any more 1959 D-getters!"


 
  LOL!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
_"We'll always have Paris...but not the Lorenz!"_
   
_Cheers!_




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Not all though haven't seen misterrogers in awhile, wonder if he is still in the tube game. Hk have you guys hung out in awhile?


 
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> He's probably been busy with Joe Audio.


 
  I chatted with him recently.  He is working on offering DIY amp products through Joe Audio.  He said he doesn't get much chance to troll the forums but he's doing fine.  I believe he's focusing on solid state amps at first.
  Hopefully, he'll announce his DIY stuff here on the forum.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Your right he does have a mot label now


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I chatted with him recently.  He is working on offering DIY amp products through Joe Audio.  He said he doesn't get much chance to troll the forums but he's doing fine.  I believe he's focusing on solid state amps at first.
> Hopefully, he'll announce his DIY stuff here on the forum.
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


 
  You mean the CTH, or some other insider info? Some of the chassis work looks very good. Hopefully they'll be up and offering "production" units soon.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> You mean the CTH, or some other insider info? Some of the chassis work looks very good. Hopefully they'll be up and offering "production" units soon.


 
  Not sure...I'm trying to get him to send some pictures of what he intends to offer...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> My Jesting with you was all in good fun my only beef at the time was simple I would get 20 private messages asking where they could find the Lorenz that we all love you and I well know these tubes are like needles in a Hay stack if you understood that I had to answer ohhh over 40 people because of your bringing up the Lorenz as if any of us can just go pick them up (quite frustrating)  Not personal I think you are a fine guy.. I just do not like talking about tubes seriously that are just about as rare as a White Tiger. It was all in good fun my friend I am quite interested in your CCa review as well. If I cared to I could get them I know what equipment they were used in so that is one source that people forget about anyway that was a hint...


 
  Hi MrScary,
   
  PMs you say?!!??!!
   
  After all this time, I finally understand your pain. LOL
   
  I suppose Skylab also goes through the same amount of pain as a result of posting his audio reviews? 
   
  BTW, I'm cool with your "direct" approach of communicating your thoughts on this forum.
  This applies to both the past and the present.
   
  As for the Pair of Lorenz 3 Mica CCa in my collection, it will take me some time before I post my impressions. I'll have to burn them in for 100hrs for a fair and serious review.


----------



## AlphaChicken

Can anyone recommend tubes that would go well with AKG q701s?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

alphachicken said:


> Can anyone recommend tubes that would go well with AKG q701s?




My favorite with my k701 is the RCA clear top 6cg7, it tames the highs adds low end and has a nice soundstage, the RCA black plate is a similar but harder to find version of the clear tops and has a similar affect on the 701. I think you can still find both versions at Brent Jesse recording website. 
Second favorite with them is the 6922 matsush*ta, Mullard tooling from tubemonger. It's a good all around tube, has nice mids and bass. Of coarse ymmv...


----------



## AlphaChicken

Hey fellow NC resident!
   
  Thanks for your reply. Of course I know that listening opinions are different, however I do appreciate your opinion, as I have never done this tube rolling thing before.  Haha. This provides me a good starting place. From there on out I can compare/roll away as my wallet sees fit...hah.
   
Is this the RCA clear-top that you recommended? And is tubedepot a reputable dealer of NOS--how is their matching test that costs $4?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Yes that is the tube, however 50 a tube is high for it, you can probably find >50 for a pair. I look around and see what I can find.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hi MrScary,
> 
> PMs you say?!!??!!
> 
> ...


 
  I can help you maintain your objectivity.  Send them to me and I'll burn them in for you until they hit 100 hours (or you forget...whichever comes first
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  That way, you won't be tempted to listen to them until they are properly burned in.
   
  Remember, I'm here to help...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I can help you maintain your objectivity.  Send them to me and I'll burn them in for you until they hit 100 hours (or you forget...whichever comes first
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hee Hee .......
   
  I should also pass you the keys to my Beverly Hills mansion for safekeeping.
   
  It holds my stash of Lorenz tubes and stocks of pure silver audio cables too.
   
  And all my credit cards too, in case you need to help me purchase tube damperners for my precious stockpile.
   
  After all, what is an audio forum for if we can't trust one another?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hee Hee .......
> 
> *I should also pass you the keys to my Beverly Hills mansion for safekeeping.*


 
  I know some of the elitist possess Lorenz tubes, but c'mon, you're just being a snob now.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hee Hee .......
> 
> I should also pass you the keys to my Beverly Hills mansion for safekeeping.
> 
> ...


 
  Well, if you insist! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - It's OK, I already have dampeners...


----------



## jamato8

The 6FQ7 and the 12FQ7 (12.6 volt heater) are the electrical equivalent of the 6SN7 in a small tube. 50 dollars for a 6FQ7 is ridiculous but I guess people will pay it. The tube is not uncommon and is okay sounding but many were made. I have a number of them but they are in storage. Maybe I should go back to the lower 48 to get them. :^)


----------



## MrScary

paradoxper said:


> I know some of the elitist possess Lorenz tubes, but c'mon, you're just being a snob now.




Yes we do possess these I love my many sets I will hold on to them and retire some day haha


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> I can help you maintain your objectivity.  Send them to me and I'll burn them in for you until they hit 100 hours (or you forget...whichever comes first:veryevil: ).  That way, you won't be tempted to listen to them until they are properly burned in.
> 
> Remember, I'm here to help...
> 
> ...




HK you know down deep inside I love ya, but please explain one thing to me. Where does this magical 100 hours come from for a tube breaking in? The reason I ask is I have seen no return whatsoever over 8 hours at top. I mean I deal with huge EL34 tubes 6L6s and I just do not hear it at all.. I agree to be fair
that I have had tubes I have though were crude and after tops 12 hours they came alive but after that I think this is just some mass induced hysteria. I mean think of this I am a semi Pro musician I am on now 34 years of Playing guitar I do session work now I am on many recordings I have never ever
broken in Guitar amp tubes --Ever. Now if you think of that you realize that nobody does and I mean nobody we put them in then we have to Bias the tubes (On most amps) which is dangerous as Schitt and then we put her on standby for 60 seconds and flip the standby switch.... I have never heard a difference at all
and Guitar amps mostly commonly use a Combo of Preamp tubes AX7 or Au7's and El34 and 6L6's.. And on the listening side again I will stress since for your safety these litle Lyr's are self biasing thank god or we would probably have a memorial of those that fried themselves on here ohh well anyway..

Please explain this magic number of 100 hours


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> HK you know down deep inside I love ya, but please explain one thing to me. Where does this magical 100 hours come from for a tube breaking in? The reason I ask is I have seen no return whatsoever over 8 hours at top. I mean I deal with huge EL34 tubes 6L6s and I just do not hear it at all.. I agree to be fair
> that I have had tubes I have though were crude and after tops 12 hours they came alive but after that I think this is just some mass induced hysteria. I mean think of this I am a semi Pro musician I am on now 34 years of Playing guitar I do session work now I am on many recordings I have never ever
> broken in Guitar amp tubes --Ever. Now if you think of that you realize that nobody does and I mean nobody we put them in then we have to Bias the tubes (On most amps) which is dangerous as Schitt and then we put her on standby for 60 seconds and flip the standby switch.... I have never heard a difference at all
> and Guitar amps mostly commonly use a Combo of Preamp tubes AX7 or Au7's and El34 and 6L6's.. And on the listening side again I will stress since for your safety these litle Lyr's are self biasing thank god or we would probably have a memorial of those that fried themselves on here ohh well anyway..
> ...


 
   
  I agree that after 20 hours in many cases you are just fooling yourself there is more gain. But 100hrs I think is the magic point we stop deluding ourselves and say ok. STOP. Just freaking listen and enjoy.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I agree that after 20 hours in many cases you are just fooling yourself there is more gain. But 100hrs I think is the magic point we stop deluding ourselves and say ok. STOP. Just freaking listen and enjoy.


 
   
  But what do I know really? NightFlight doens't even have a Lyr or a tube, or headphones to his name. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  It's all on backorder.. booohoooohoo


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> HK you know down deep inside I love ya, *but please explain one thing to me. Where does this magical 100 hours come from for a tube breaking in?* The reason I ask is I have seen no return whatsoever over 8 hours at top. I mean I deal with huge EL34 tubes 6L6s and I just do not hear it at all.. I agree to be fair
> that I have had tubes I have though were crude and after tops 12 hours they came alive but after that I think this is just some mass induced hysteria. I mean think of this I am a semi Pro musician I am on now 34 years of Playing guitar I do session work now I am on many recordings I have never ever
> broken in Guitar amp tubes --Ever. Now if you think of that you realize that nobody does and I mean nobody we put them in then we have to Bias the tubes (On most amps) which is dangerous as Schitt and then we put her on standby for 60 seconds and flip the standby switch.... I have never heard a difference at all
> and Guitar amps mostly commonly use a Combo of Preamp tubes AX7 or Au7's and El34 and 6L6's.. And on the listening side again I will stress since for your safety these litle Lyr's are self biasing thank god or we would probably have a memorial of those that fried themselves on here ohh well anyway..
> ...


 
  Honestly, I have no idea.  I never really thought there was a specific amount of time for a tube to settle.  But it does make sense that after 100 hours, all the components in the system should be totally settled (with the exception of some headphones from Beyer and AKG) to allow some objective listening.  At least I can try to use the philosophy to justify borrowing Lord Soth's tubes...and the keys to his mansion...and his credit cards (for dampers...yeah, that's it...dampers)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> My recommedation is the cyro set they are new number one you never know what you are getting from ebay I have already been burned this last week on there.. The major difference is sound stage the cyro's have a much larger sound stage to them but I don't even have 100 hours on the cyro's yet
> so my final feeling on them is not complete... IMHO if you can find a good matched set on ebay for 30.00 go for it if you dont want to wait forever to get them from Russia just spend the 50.00 and get the cryo set.. All in all the soundstage is what sets them apart they are not that different in tonality


 
  Hey look! There's that magic 100 hours again....


----------



## swmtnbiker

My latest acquisition. Matched pair of 1966 Bugle Boys. These really sound phenomenal and beat out both my A frame and O getter orange label Amperex pairs. More space, deeper soundstage, and just a tad more aggressive with a nice, zesty punchiness...


----------



## Iamnothim

Wow a tube review 
That's a novelty for this thread.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Right? What the hell was I thinking...


----------



## Iamnothim

My tube tester build has started.
  All new components are on the way.
   
606 Project Scope
  
 Replicate circuitry of 606 using new components.  Resistors, Capacitors, Pots, switches, lamps.
 Provide all original testing functionality: Shorts, Quality, Grid Emission. 
 Eliminate all valve sockets except 9 pin.
 Instal 3 discrete 9 pin sockets to accommodate  ECC88, 6BN8 and 12AX7 valves.
 Provide circuitry to accommodate the 9 pin valve types from a singleTypical  transformer secondary.
  
 Philips ECC88
 Heater: 6.3V 365 mA
 Typical Plate: 90V  15 mA  (per document.  I suspect 1.5 mA)
  
 Sylvania 6BN8
 Heater 6.3V 600 mA
 Typical Plate: 100V 1.5 mA
  
 GE 12AX7
 Heater: 6.3V  300 mA (In Paralel)
 Typical Plate:  250V 1.2 mA
  
 Transformers.
 Plate Transformer:  Hammond mfg.  Model 166F120  Secondary  120VAC C.T.  0.3 A
 Heater Transformer:  Hammond mfg. Model 166G6  Secondary  6.3VAC C.T.  0.6 A
  
 Challenge:  Engineering 250V plate voltage from a 120VAC trans.  If I can't do this I will abandon the 12AX7.
 Challenge: Calibrating the Dixson model 430 meter.  Process, known good tubes and B&K 25 M Ohm calibration procedure.
  
 Fabricate new enclosure and panel.  Provide testing taps for multimeter and oscilloscope.
  
   
  BEFORE
   
   
   
   

   
   
  AFTER


----------



## Iamnothim

News Flash: 
  You'll never need to buy another Tube Amp from Schiit or anybody else.
  Just follow the instruction in this video.
  Some of the material is a bit technical so keep a notepad handy:


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Wow a tube review
> That's a novelty for this thread.


 
  While we do occasionally trip the distraction fantastic, a cursory look at the first 335 or so pages will result in the discovery of a review or two...even from the very people enjoying the current diversion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> My tube tester build has started.
> All new components are on the way.
> 
> 606 Project Scope
> ...


 
  Don't forget, you must at least mention tube, or Lyr, or Schiit every five posts or so to ensure we are technically staying on topic...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> While we do occasionally trip the distraction fantastic, a cursory look at the first 335 or so pages will result in the discovery of a review or two...even from the very people enjoying the current diversion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  If ya look at my posts... I'm not exactly on topic....


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> News Flash:
> You'll never need to buy another *Tube* Amp from *Schiit* or anybody else.
> Just follow the instruction in this video.
> Some of the material is a bit technical so keep a notepad handy:


 
  Wow, nice job! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers and all in good fun!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Don't forget, you must at least mention tube, or Lyr, or Schiit every five posts or so to ensure we are technically staying on topic...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I hate it when that happens.....
  I'll be in the corner for a TO


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Wow, nice job!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have to find his power supply vendor..


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> If ya look at my posts... I'm not exactly on topic....


 
  Hey, we've evolved and are exploring new...possibilities!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Schiit, Lyr, Tube!  There!  I'm caught up on my quota...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

And...all seriousness aside...(or not)...I have purchased three sets of Lorenz SEL PCC88 tubes from this vendor on e-bay:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/390528285455?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  The mail is a little slow from Vilnius [size=small]Lithuania, [/size]but the tubes are great!  Frau-Olia (Olga) has more up for sale.  They come without boxes but are well wrapped in bubble-wrap and in a sturdy box.  I've had no problems with the shipping other than the first set was delayed (probably due to the holidays).  ...And they look brand new.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - My power comes from caffeine and a sardonic sense of humor...


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> And...all seriousness aside...(or not)...I have purchased three sets of Lorenz SEL PCC88 tubes from this vendor on e-bay:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/390528285455?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> ...


 

 I ordered these on Jan 20.  Still waiting .....


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> My tube tester build has started.
> All new components are on the way.
> 
> 606 Project Scope
> ...


 
   
  AHA.... my electrical engineering degree has finally paid off ...... My keen electrical sense has alerted me .... your BEFORE and AFTER pictures must be reversed!!!!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I ordered these on Jan 20.  Still waiting .....


 
  I ordered mine on 19 Jan and just got them yesterday (although my first order took three and a half weeks).  It shouldn't be too much longer for you.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> AHA.... my electrical engineering degree has finally paid off ...... My keen electrical sense has alerted me .... your BEFORE and AFTER pictures must be reversed!!!!


 
  Unless he stripped the old wire and is now using nanowire!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> And...all seriousness aside...(or not)...I have purchased three sets of Lorenz SEL PCC88 tubes from this vendor on e-bay:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/390528285455?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> ...


 

 I also bought 2pairs of these from him that he shipped jan 22 and I am in California and have NOT received them yet!!!
   
  Wondering...............
   
  Jack


----------



## jackiedh

The mail is a little slow from *Vilnius [size=small]Lithuania[/size]*---This is where Sean Connery was born (CAPTAIN RAMEOUS) in the movie Hunt For Red October--Maybe I should contact him and see if he could pick them up for me!!!
   
  Jack


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> The mail is a little slow from *Vilnius [size=small]Lithuania[/size]*---This is where Sean Connery was born (CAPTAIN RAMEOUS) in the movie Hunt For Red October--Maybe I should contact him and see if he could pick them up for me!!!
> 
> Jack


 
  So, would that be a "sub-surface" postal rate? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> So, would that be a "sub-surface" postal rate?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Don't know if it would be cheaper--But it sure would be quicker!!!!
   
  Put it in a Torpedo and aim it for the nearest US POST OFFICE.....
   
  Jack


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Honestly, I have no idea.  I never really thought there was a specific amount of time for a tube to settle.  But it does make sense that after 100 hours, all the components in the system should be totally settled (with the exception of some headphones from Beyer and AKG) to allow some objective listening.  At least I can try to use the philosophy to justify borrowing Lord Soth's tubes...and the keys to his mansion...and his credit cards (for dampers...yeah, that's it...dampers)...:veryevil:
> 
> Cheers!
> -HK sends




Haha I was messing with ya man being a analog component much like some capacitors that I have seen a change in over time pretty much proven.. I would agree some amount of time on the Audiophile front is prudent.. Now for Preamp tubes same situation we have with the Lyr different tubes really make a difference in some Guitar amp designs I have one amp that is very complex it allows you to switch from A to A/B to Pentatode etc etc it does it on the fly mechanically not electronically now it works great when it works haha but its in the shop more than out.. 

Yeah I think I will 69 hours that sounds like a good one.. 


§


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Haha I was messing with ya man being a analog component much like some capacitors that I have seen a change in over time pretty much proven.. I would agree some amount of time on the Audiophile front is prudent.. Now for Preamp tubes same situation we have with the Lyr different tubes really make a difference in some Guitar amp designs I have one amp that is very complex it allows you to switch from A to A/B to Pentatode etc etc it does it on the fly mechanically not electronically now it works great when it works haha but its in the shop more than out..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, I like that number...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Sniperbombers

hey guys, i know this is going to be a little off-topic, but im struggling to pull out my tube amps. Is there a way where i can achieve this without being too scared of breaking pins or damaging the units themselves?


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> hey guys, i know this is going to be a little off-topic, but im struggling to pull out my tube amps. Is there a way where i can achieve this without being too scare of breaking pins or damaging the units themselves?


 

 Use rubber gloves (I dont like the oil from skin on the glass of the tubes, just like on light bulbs I believe it will shorten the lifespan, it also helps with grip) and move the tube side to side back and forward whilst all the time gently pulling upwards. Not too much on the moving side to side etc...


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> hey guys, i know this is going to be a little off-topic, but im struggling to pull out my tube amps. Is there a way where i can achieve this without being too scare of breaking pins or damaging the units themselves?


 

 http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360242168&sr=8-1&keywords=tube+glove
   
   
  Get a tube glove. They work fantastic, the smaller end fits a 6DJ8 sized tube perfectly.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360242168&sr=8-1&keywords=tube+glove
> 
> 
> Get a tube glove. They work fantastic, the smaller end fits a 6DJ8 sized tube perfectly.


 
  +1.  I have one and it works great.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## 148124

Just received lyr for my he4 ...
   
  I was OK with EF5 but it was too often out of juice on many recordings with my he4
   
  What is most obvious difference with Lyr vs EF5 is soundstage & imaging - stunning on Lyr
   
  but I miss that amazing sparkle and details on fast/dynamic piano and impact when hitting lower octaves - sound is a bit muffled comparing to EF5, so I lost upper harmonics while reverbating - I hope it's only the matter of tubes
   
  I have EH 6922, stock GE 6bq7 (6bz7) which are simply the best in my opinion and schiit 6n1p which are total mistake in my opinion with recessed mids and fuzzy/blurry image
   
  My Lyr has turn on/off relay and is dead quiet when there is no music no matter the tubes
   
  which tubes would you recommend for my tastes ? or maybe send back lyr and go back to ef5 ? I feel that it sounds better and better with those 6bz7 GE, only about 5 h of playing ...


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360242168&sr=8-1&keywords=tube+glove
> 
> 
> Get a tube glove. They work fantastic, the smaller end fits a 6DJ8 sized tube perfectly.


 
  ugh, i actually tried to order the unit but they don't ship anywhere outside of america. I can't seem to find any other sellers/trusted websites who carry this either.

 @Eddiek997
 i may have to choose this alternative. Unless someone out there uses other tactics?


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> ugh, i actually tried to order the unit but they don't ship anywhere outside of america. I can't seem to find any other sellers/trusted websites who carry this either.
> 
> @Eddiek997
> i may have to choose this alternative. Unless someone out there uses other tactics?


 
   
  Hopefully this will help track one down... http://www.ehx.com/dealers  Has a drop down list of world wide dealers. Are you Military?


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> Don't know if it would be cheaper--But it sure would be quicker!!!!
> 
> Put it in a Torpedo and aim it for the nearest US POST OFFICE.....
> 
> Jack


 
   
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I ordered mine on 19 Jan and just got them yesterday (although my first order took three and a half weeks).  It shouldn't be too much longer for you.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> So, would that be a "sub-surface" postal rate?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Still No Tubes.............
   
  Jack


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> Still No Tubes.............
> 
> Jack


 
  Believe me, waiting sucks.  If you are outside the estimated delivery dates that ebay offers then yes, I would shoot her an e-mail (do it through ebay's contact seller messaging system so you have documented proof if you have to file a claim).
   
  Cheers and Good Luck!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - But even with the extended waiting, I have gotten both of the items I bought from her...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> ugh, i actually tried to order the unit but they don't ship anywhere outside of america. I can't seem to find any other sellers/trusted websites who carry this either.
> 
> @Eddiek997
> i may have to choose this alternative. Unless someone out there uses other tactics?


 
   
 I am very partial to Tubemonger tube saver / Extenders.  I looked at the other sock widget and I worried that it might smudge the labels.
 With the extenders I can change a tube in seconds without hurting the pins or the sockets.
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





magicman said:


> Just received lyr for my he4 ...
> 
> I was OK with EF5 but it was too often out of juice on many recordings with my he4
> 
> ...


 
   
 I love these valves for classical:
 La Radiotechnique
 1965
 E188CC
 Gold Pin
 Large Halo Getter.
  
 fearless turned me on to them.
 RTC was a french Philips company.  Just like Amperex is a Philips company.
  
 In fact these valves were made in the Amperex factory in Heerlen Holland and labeled "RTC"
 The Amperex Orange "PQ" label" should be the same.  Look for gold pins.
  
 Another consideration are Lorenz.  There are several variants.  I'm waiting for my first pair to arrive from Lithuania.
 There are some "Huge Experts" on Lorenz valves on this thread.   My understanding is they are crisp.
  
 Since these are European, you may have a easier time finding them then us yankees
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261151201993?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





magicman said:


> Just received lyr for my he4 ...
> 
> I was OK with EF5 but it was too often out of juice on many recordings with my he4
> 
> ...


 

 I love the Siemens CCa tubes with the Lyr on my HE500's. I can't speak of their synergy with HE4's but the bottom end/midrange is a thing of beauty with the CCa's. I listen to a lot of modern jazz with fast piano and lots of bass and these tubes are perfect.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I love these valves for classical:
> La Radiotechnique
> 1965
> E188CC
> ...


 
  I am glad you like them, I find them sublime. If you are interested PM me your address and i could send you the French made ones to compare , I think that would be interesting.....


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





magicman said:


> Just received lyr for my he4 ...
> 
> I was OK with EF5 but it was too often out of juice on many recordings with my he4
> 
> ...


 
  If you  want sparkle and fast look for a Amperex JAN 7308 Gold Pin (USA) they sound exactly like what you seek. I also own the EF-5, (upgraded OPA) and i find the 7308s tend to make the Lyr sound like a more dynamic EF-5.


----------



## gmahler2u

did anyone tried this tube before or heard of this tube before?
  If you're aware this tube what you think? opinion?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amperex-JAN-7308-Gold-Pin-USA-E88CC-6DJ8-E188CC-CCa-6922-TUBES-/160958579000?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2579e10138


----------



## Iamnothim

Made May, 1967  Mfg. at:
 * Amperex Electronic Corp., New York   
  Gold Pin.
  Large "O" Getter.
  Similar to some Ampere I own.
   
  JAN = "Joint Army Navy"
  Military tubes were made to tighter tolerances and tend to last longer.


----------



## Iamnothim

I hate resellers that put crappy photos where you can't read the codes and then say "made in the sixties" 
  I've enhanced them for you.
  Although I can't make out the black markings on the right tube.
  Looks like a Sharpie.
   
  EDIT:  Wrong pic.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> did anyone tried this tube before or heard of this tube before?
> If you're aware this tube what you think? opinion?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amperex-JAN-7308-Gold-Pin-USA-E88CC-6DJ8-E188CC-CCa-6922-TUBES-/160958579000?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2579e10138


 
  See post 528, those are them.  They are decent sounding, good bass extension, a bit bright, very SS sounding. good for faster/modern rock, lack a bit of intimacy but a very large sound stage. I like them, but they are not my favorites.


----------



## Fearless1

*Vr5 *60 USA *is the only markings I can find on them


----------



## Iamnothim

I can't really give you an opinion because I don't have a Valhalla.
  There's the "Lyr" word again.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> *Vr5 *60 USA *is the only markings I can find on them


 
  The "VR5"  is the valve type
  Most are "VR 7 or 9"   I have to look.
  The "5" might be a JAN designation.....
   
  That's the code that say's it's a 9 pin base and a 6.3V heater....  pretty sure.
   
  Top line is a "Star" "7" "E"
   
  "Star" is the New York Amperex factory
  "7" is 1967
  "E" is May


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I am very partial to Tubemonger tube saver / Extenders.  I looked at the other sock widget and I worried that it might smudge the labels.
> With the extenders I can change a tube in seconds without hurting the pins or the sockets.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm


 
  wow i should consider this. it seems to handy!
   
  Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Hopefully this will help track one down... http://www.ehx.com/dealers  Has a drop down list of world wide dealers. Are you Military?


 
  Hey i tried looking within my area, they do not carry the sleeve sadly. However they do carry some amps ! I should definitely check them out.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> wow i should consider this. it seems to handy!
> 
> Hey i tried looking within my area, they do not carry the sleeve sadly. However they do carry some amps ! I should definitely check them out.


 
  I can't express how much I love those little guys.
  You can line up the pins easy.
  You have much better control of the pressure applied to the tube when rocking them out and pressing them back in.
   
  When you take a tube off the extender it, the extender, rocks out a bit.  Important.  press it back into place with your finger before inserting the tube into the extender. Do not align the extender with the tube.
   
  I have had zero problems with these.  No noise, what have you.  In fact mine we 2nd's that tubemonger had at one time for $10 off.


----------



## 148124

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> If you  want sparkle and fast look for a Amperex JAN 7308 Gold Pin (USA) they sound exactly like what you seek. I also own the EF-5, (upgraded OPA) and i find the 7308s tend to make the Lyr sound like a more dynamic EF-5.


 

 Hey Fearless1 thank you for your advice !
   
  With stock tubes I feel I just lose clarity and speed comparing to EF5, but there is amazing soundstage, separation of musical plans, something like 3D, more coherent image combined with amazing power on Lyr
   
  Great to know you have been listening to EF5 and you can advice tubes that sound signature can bring Lyr closer to EF5 (I would stay with EF5 if it had more power, but for he4 it was just not enough and had to find something more powerful)
   
  But from my first rolling experience I can tell tubes are critical in Lyr
   
   
  btw. Is schiit crazy to leave no room to grip the tubes in order to swap them ???? they sit so deep, there is great possibility to damage tubes or sockets trying to remove tubes, I mean come on what is this ? crap for me, total crap ;(


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





magicman said:


> btw. Is schiit crazy to leave no room to grip the tubes in order to swap them ???? they sit so deep, there is great possibility to damage tubes or sockets trying to remove tubes, I mean come on what is this ? crap for me, total crap ;(


 
  Rocking the tubes back and forth to get them out is not very difficult. Show some restraint and you won't end up with shattered tubes.


----------



## 148124

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Rocking the tubes back and forth to get them out is not very difficult. Show some restraint and you won't end up with shattered tubes.


 

 that's how I do it ... 
   
  but you have to admit this is some kind of misunderstanding having in mind future tube rolling
   
  I had many tube amps before and there were no problems at all


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





magicman said:


> that's how I do it ...
> 
> but you have to admit this is some kind of misunderstanding having in mind future tube rolling
> 
> I had many tube amps before and there were no problems at all


 
  I don't see the misunderstanding. If you get the socket savers it makes rollin' even easier. However I had no difficulties rolling them without.
   
  Maybe with Valhalla and Asgard having their second iterations, Lyr will iterate to an even easier rollable design.


----------



## Sniperbombers

thank you everybody who was able to answer my questions! sadly i do have 1 more because a 349 page post is wayyy too long. Does anyone have a list compiled for some good bass tube amps?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





magicman said:


> btw. Is schiit crazy to leave no room to grip the tubes in order to swap them ???? they sit so deep, there is great possibility to damage tubes or sockets trying to remove tubes, I mean come on what is this ? crap for me, total crap ;(


 
   
  Tape is your friend.


----------



## solserenade

I discovered recently how handy this type of gardening glove is, for handling tubes -- when they fit the hand right, it's like a second skin, and _they grip tubes so nicely. _It's _very_ easy to stay clear of the labels and still get a crazy amount of grip. Plus, your tubes stay clean.


----------



## MickeyVee

I use surgical gloves.. pretty cheap and works well.


----------



## Iamnothim




----------



## ironsurvivor

Genius ^


----------



## swmtnbiker




----------



## OldSkool




----------



## Ralf Hutter




----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





ralf hutter said:


>


----------



## TooPoor

Sifting through 350 pages can be a bit tedious and tiresome... Can someone tell me, simply, what are great tubes for excellent bass and soundstage (if that's truly possible). There is a nauseating amount of information when it comes to tube selection and I'm looking to start somewhere, albeit basic. It'd be for my HE-400s (incoming LCD2.2's as well). I love EDM, metal, and everything in between, so essentially seeking an all arounder that has a warm, syrupy sound signature that compliments ortho's (moreso than a SS amp).


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Sifting through 350 pages can be a bit tedious and tiresome... Can someone tell me, simply, what are great tubes for excellent bass and soundstage (if that's truly possible). There is a nauseating amount of information when it comes to tube selection and I'm looking to start somewhere, albeit basic. It'd be for my HE-400s (incoming LCD2.2's as well). I love EDM, metal, and everything in between, so essentially seeking an all arounder that has a warm, syrupy sound signature that compliments ortho's (moreso than a SS amp).


 
  Hi,
  On page 348 there is a discussion on a good valve selection that would have good soundstaging and not be "blurry"
  I interpreted this to be clean and crisp.
   
  I will stick my neck out and say there's a good consensus that Mid 1960 Amperex Orange Globes are a great valve to start with.
  They are about $70 and they will open you're Lyr up straight away.
   
  Like These:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321062040828?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  BTW: this reseller is very good.


----------



## BobJS

You guys must be using those new unobtanium tubes.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> You guys must be using those new unobtanium tubes.


 
  As you know.... not so long ago.

 Ya gotta start someplace.


----------



## Iamnothim

Let the breadboarding begin...


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I will stick my neck out and say there's a good consensus that Mid 1960 Amperex Orange Globes are a great valve to start with.
> They are about $70 and they will open you're Lyr up straight away.
> 
> Like These:
> ...


 
   
  I've had good experience with this seller as well.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> In fact these valves were made in the Amperex *Philips* factory in Heerlen Holland and labeled "RTC"


----------



## 148124

a tape ?? what do you mean ?? I just quitted tube rolling because of it, 6bz7 are indeed great stock tubes, now searching for the new dac to pair well with my system
   
  the design for tube rolling is bad - it's obvious and I was a bit shocked when I received my unit


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





magicman said:


> a tape ?? what do you mean ?? I just quitted tube rolling because of it, 6bz7 are indeed great stock tubes, now searching for the new dac to pair well with my system
> 
> the design for tube rolling is bad - it's obvious and I was a bit shocked when I received my unit


 
  I do think you're the first person (at least that I recall), that has had a problem with the design of the Lyr.
   
  Have you at least tried out tube gloves or socket savers?


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Sifting through 350 pages can be a bit tedious and tiresome... Can someone tell me, simply, what are great tubes for excellent bass and soundstage (if that's truly possible). There is a nauseating amount of information when it comes to tube selection and I'm looking to start somewhere, albeit basic. It'd be for my HE-400s (incoming LCD2.2's as well). I love EDM, metal, and everything in between, so essentially seeking an all arounder that has a warm, syrupy sound signature that compliments ortho's (moreso than a SS amp).


 
   
  Amperex orange globes and orange labels are usually good, but personally I think that a good pair of NOS Bugle Boys bests them:
   
http://stores.ebay.com/TUBEHUNTER/_i.html?_nkw=bugle+ecc88&submit=Search&_sid=655091105
   
  Take your pick. You won't be sorry. I'll also say the this seller (Smitty) is a great guy who knows his stuff and has great customer service.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Amperex orange globes and orange labels are usually good, but personally I think that a good pair of NOS Bugle Boys bests them:
> 
> http://stores.ebay.com/TUBEHUNTER/_i.html?_nkw=bugle+ecc88&submit=Search&_sid=655091105
> 
> Take your pick. You won't be sorry. I'll also say the this seller (Smitty) is a great guy who knows his stuff and has great customer service.


 

 Yes, I haven't try with my orange globe, i like what I'm hearing with bogle boy with the Lyr!


----------



## 148124

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I do think you're the first person (at least that I recall), that has had a problem with the design of the Lyr.
> 
> Have you at least tried out tube gloves or socket savers?


 
   
  sockets' savers are not an option - for me having something between socket and tube is crazy idea and I am not gonna discuss about that
   
  I will try rubber gloves - that might be a great idea indeed but it doesn't change my opinion about bad design to roll the tubes (so far 6bz7 sound great and I am not gonna change them in the nearest future)


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





magicman said:


> sockets' savers are not an option - for me having something between socket and tube is crazy idea and I am not gonna discuss about that
> 
> I will try rubber gloves - that might be a great idea indeed but it doesn't change my opinion about bad design to roll the tubes (so far 6bz7 sound great and I am not gonna change them in the nearest future)


 

 I thought the same thing... I'm buying tubes with gold pins only to run them thru a bog standard intermediary device.
  However, I did it anyway because of two reasons.....
  1. I like to see the glow of the tubes when theyre raised that extra inch.
  2. Heat kills electronics and the lyr runs hot enough so I figure that by raising the tubes will all them to run a small amount cooler and this might just prolong their lifespan..
   
  With them raised incidentally, removing the tubes is so easy with rubber gloves.


----------



## 148124

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> I thought the same thing... I'm buying tubes with gold pins only to run them thru a bog standard intermediary device.
> However, I did it anyway because of two reasons.....
> 1. I like to see the glow of the tubes when theyre raised that extra inch.
> 2. Heat kills electronics and the lyr runs hot enough so I figure that by raising the tubes will all them to run a small amount cooler and this might just prolong their lifespan..
> ...


 

 it's class A amp + tubes, heat is normal there is nothing wrong and it will last many years
   
  I saw and had many similar amps, Lyr isn't really hot believe me and looking through the holes there is enough space to air circulation, and no heat sensitive elements
   
  I am still thinking about having such clear mids like in EF-5, I really like soundstage and 3D sound of Lyr, but clarity on stock tubes 6bz7 is so so
   
  Putting EH 6922 (which are known to be analitycally sounding tubes) haven't changed that
   
  In a few places I read about e188cc or e288cc tubes that have amazing clarity and speed with mids but I am not willing to risk for the price just to check it out
   
  If only EF-5 got that 6W of power ...
   
  For instance piano sounds dull/muffled on Lyr comparing to EF-5 which has speed, sparkle, clarity and controlled, fast impact (but was too bright sometime)
   
  I am thinking about buying EF-5 for piano mainly which is breathtaking when paired with HE-4 and keep Lyr for the rest, especially rock, metal, acoustic


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





magicman said:


> it's class A amp + tubes, heat is normal there is nothing wrong and it will last many years


 
  I understand that - It's also not my first day out of school. In fact I have no less than FOUR class A amplifiers in my house (have installed hundreds in other peoples houses) and they all run warm, some would say very warm. One of them (Aragon) ran hotter than the others (B&W x2, Harmon Kardon) and has failed twice.
   
  Time will tell if you correct about the lifespan of the Lyr - my point is that heat is what kills electronics and whilst a certain amount of heat is inevitable and indeed almost necessary (Class A amps dont sound their best when cold).
  It is my opinion that whenever you can, reducing the amount of heat can only benefit your equipment longevity. That is why when I build an AV rack, I use not only active cooling fans but passive convection as well.
   
  This is just my opinion - not an argument. Lets not poison this amazingly informative thread with our noise..... We can start another thread for the virtues/drawback of heat in our equipment.....


----------



## HK_sends

Just seeing the dialog so forgive me if I am stating the obvious.  If you do get a set of socket savers (from TubeMonger or off ebay), using them with your tubes will significantly decrease the internal temps on the Lyr.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

As an aside I tested the temperature of an Amperex OG in my Lyr using a Fluke 88V multimeter with a thermocouple wire.
   
  It read 128 deg F.
  Not hot enough to be concerned about.
   
  I did this because in my B&K 606 rebuild project, I fashioned a tube base for breadboarding from a polypropylene organizer.  I looked up the melting point of polypropylene in wiki and got 349 C.  At standard pressure water boils at 212 F to add a reference point.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Just seeing the dialog so forgive me if I am stating the obvious.  If you do get a set of socket savers (from TubeMonger or off ebay), using them with your tubes will significantly decrease the internal temps on the Lyr.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  i want to quote this because i do have a question about the socket savers off of ebay. quality wise i know it'll end up being worse than off tubemonger, What concerns me the most is how much worse or better the ones from monger vs from china really are.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> i want to quote this because i do have a question about the socket savers off of ebay. quality wise i know it'll end up being worse than off tubemonger, What concerns me the most is how much worse or better the ones from monger vs from china really are.


 
   
 My experience.
  
 I purchased a cheap set for $18 from Brent Jessee  Very flimsy.
 http://audiotubes.com/books.htm
  
 They worked well, but the socket savers came out with the tube each time.  This puts more stress on the Lyr sockets, plus the pins on the socket savers.
  
 I switched to Tubemongers product.  They have much more substantial pins and sockets.  The pins pretty much stay put in the Lyr when you remove a tube from the top.  You might have to press down a bit to level them before re-inserting a tube.  The pins are gold plated for good conductance.
  
 They provide for less stress on the tube pins because the extraction is very controlled.  Same thing when reinserting.  The heat thing is inconsequential 128 deg F.  Aesthetically, I find them very pleasing because I can see the tubes. I cannot detect any degradation in sonic quality.   I don't regret buying them one bit.


----------



## gmahler2u

i know it's not 88 or 6dj8 6922.
   
  is this suitable for Lyr?
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/La_Radiotechnique_12AT7WA_NOS_NIB_France_ECC81_Pro_p/1158.htm


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> i know it's not 88 or 6dj8 6922.
> 
> is this suitable for Lyr?
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/La_Radiotechnique_12AT7WA_NOS_NIB_France_ECC81_Pro_p/1158.htm


 
  I'm going with a solid no


----------



## gmahler2u

Thank You!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Thank You!


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> As an aside I tested the temperature of an Amperex OG in my Lyr using a Fluke 88V multimeter with a thermocouple wire.
> 
> It read 128 deg F.
> Not hot enough to be concerned about.
> ...


 
  Melting point of polypropylene is much closer to 349 F.   349 C is like 660 F.  Shades of Ray Bradbury.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Melting point of polypropylene is much closer to 349 F.   349 C is like 660 F.  Shades of Ray Bradbury.


 
   C, F, ?  same thing.


----------



## 148124

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> I understand that - It's also not my first day out of school. In fact I have no less than FOUR class A amplifiers in my house (have installed hundreds in other peoples houses) and they all run warm, some would say very warm. One of them (Aragon) ran hotter than the others (B&W x2, Harmon Kardon) and has failed twice.
> 
> Time will tell if you correct about the lifespan of the Lyr - my point is that heat is what kills electronics and whilst a certain amount of heat is inevitable and indeed almost necessary (Class A amps dont sound their best when cold).
> It is my opinion that whenever you can, reducing the amount of heat can only benefit your equipment longevity. That is why when I build an AV rack, I use not only active cooling fans but passive convection as well.
> ...


 

 yeah you are right - that might be the point of course - I just don't want anything between tube pins and tube socket from electrical point of view (loosing connections, extra RLC for the whole circuit, changing resonance frequency of "multi socket" - microphonics etc ...) I agree there will be cooler inside of the amp if I use socket savers having the tubes higher but I simply quit that because my listening sessions are usually from 2 to 3 hours so I bet it will last many many years (and schiit giving 5 years of warranty would not shoot in the head without checking temperature on all the components inside during working of the amp even 24/7)
   
  back to the tube rolling - I am gonna give the lyr some time before thinking of EF-5 again, about 100 hours and burn EH 6922 set for at least 20-30 hours (they are brand new) - actually they do a bit better than 6bz7 although they don't have that amazing sense of 3D and expansive soundstage, but for the piano there is a bit better clarity on the mids which is exactly what I am looking for


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> My experience.
> 
> I purchased a cheap set for $18 from Brent Jessee  Very flimsy.
> http://audiotubes.com/books.htm
> ...


 
  Hey thank you for the information! im greatful that all of you guys were able to help me out. I just placed an order, so i hope i receive them soon.

 - i'm still wanting to find some good tubes that give the lower end some oomph. If anybody can help me out here id be glad to listen to your thoughts and opinions about the tubes


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> C, F, ?  same thing.


 

 Whatever it takes .....


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> i want to quote this because i do have a question about the socket savers off of ebay. quality wise i know it'll end up being worse than off tubemonger, What concerns me the most is how much worse or better the ones from monger vs from china really are.


 
  Given the choice, I would go with the ones from TubeMonger.  They are more expensive but they have some dampening.  The socket savers I got from ebay aren't really that bad, but all they are is a bakelite housing with pin extensions mounted in them...no damping material.  I just tried them because they were cheap.
   
  One technical issue...while the socket in the TubeMonger savers are gold plated, the pins at the bottom of the saver are not (I've had 6 different sets).  So don't be suprised...
  Reference the 2nd sentence in the description: "[size=10pt][size=10pt]with Vibration Reduction Base, and Gold Plated Pins on the socket end is a perfect solution.[/size][/size]"
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Gold isn't a great conductor anyway, just stops corrosion. Silver is best then copper then gold but tin, frankly, is preferred by some as far as sonic qualities. Also, normally nickel is under the gold, and nickel is horrible. Sometimes the gold is flashed to the metal being used but most often there is a substrate of nickel and then the gold. Also, the gold is so thin that it wears quickly.


----------



## Dgiant

What would be a good tube for my LYR that makes it a little bit more sparkly on the highs for my lcd 2.2s? I was looking at the gold lion and even the telefunken


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





dgiant said:


> What would be a good tube for my LYR that makes it a little bit more sparkly on the highs for my lcd 2.2s? I was looking at the gold lion and even the telefunken


 
  Those are good choices.  Another option are these: http://www.tubemonger.com/Tesla_NOT_JJ_MPs_MINT_NOS_1970s_MIL_E88CC_6922_p/198.htm
  They would sound great too.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Given the choice, I would go with the ones from TubeMonger.  They are more expensive but they have some dampening.  The socket savers I got from ebay aren't really that bad, but all they are is a bakelite housing with pin extensions mounted in them...no damping material.  I just tried them because they were cheap.
> 
> One technical issue...while the socket in the TubeMonger savers are gold plated, the pins at the bottom of the saver are not (I've had 6 different sets).  So don't be suprised...
> Reference the 2nd sentence in the description: "[size=10pt][size=10pt]with Vibration Reduction Base, and Gold Plated Pins on the socket end is a perfect solution.[/size][/size]"
> ...


 
  hey thank you so much for your feedback about the ebay socketsavers. 

 Is there anybody out there whos willing to recommend some good/darker tubes of choice ?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> hey thank you so much for your feedback about the ebay socketsavers.
> 
> Is there anybody out there whos willing to recommend some good/darker tubes of choice ?


 
  I have reached my recommendation quota.
  Actually there are others with a larger collection than my dozen..  and I wouldn't call anything in my largely Philips collection "dark".
  I got rich, but no dark.
   
  Speaking of my collection.
  My Lorenz valves haven't arrived from Lithuania yet.


----------



## swmtnbiker

How does that old Tom Petty song go? "The waiting is the hardest part..."


----------



## NightFlight

Breaking in my HD800s and got to thinking about breaking in amp/tubes. I should finally get the Bifrost/Lyr on the 19th.  Having never owned an amp with valves before, I have a question. Do tubes in the pre section even require a signal running through them and/or an output load as part of the burn in process?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Breaking in my HD800s and got to thinking about breaking in amp/tubes. I should finally get the Bifrost/Lyr on the 19th.  Having never owned an amp with valves before, I have a question. Do tubes in the pre section even require a signal running through them and/or an output load as part of the burn in process?


 
   

 I love that question !
 Generally I have found NOS valves will sound better after 68 hours and 37 minutes.  Read back a few pages and you'll get the joke.
  
 Seriously, I love the question.  I don't have the answer but it makes me think because I'm reading a lot about valve function.
  
 There are 4 working components in a valve.  Heater, Cathode, Grid, and Anode.
 The magic is that electrons fly through the air from the titanium Cathode to the Anode.
 Cathode neg.  Anode Pos.
 The reason the cathode give up the electrons is because it is "heated" by the heater.  The heater voltage and current in Lyr tubes are constant at 6.3V / 365 mA   As such it'll give up electrons at a constant rate.  It doesn't matter if more voltage is applied.
  
 Two things govern the electron flow. The negative grid current and the positive anode current.   When you crank up the juice the grid voltage drops and more electrons get to the anode.
  
 Don't believe any of the above until you hear from Alaska.
  
 So your question.  I don't think the valve cares.
  
 I want to circle back to a response that the getter doesn't make a difference in the sonic characteristics of a valve.
 The getter is part of the "flash" reaction that coats the top of the tube.  They are impregnated with barium and function to reduce residual gases by chemically combining with them.  As they become depleted the valve becomes compromised.   ie. The getter can wear out.  I can't help but Speculate that composition and shape of the getter wouldn't contribute to sound.
  
 I'm just now reading this stuff and I'm working to get it down.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Speaking of my collection.
> My Lorenz valves haven't arrived from Lithuania yet.


 
   
  Mine either.  I believe we ordered the same day.  The outside limit of eBay's promised delivery date was Feb 8


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Mine either.  I believe we ordered the same day.  The outside limit of eBay's promised delivery date was Feb 8


 
  I just ordered some capacitors from him a minute ago.
   
  In the body of that listing he quotes 9 - 45 days to the states.
   
  He's got great feedback numbers.  I'm sure they'll show up.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I love that question !
> Generally I have found NOS valves will sound better after 68 hours and 37 minutes.  Read back a few pages and you'll get the joke.
> 
> Seriously, I love the question.  I don't have the answer but it makes me think because I'm reading a lot about valve function.
> ...


 

 Some will leave a nos tube in a tester for a while to heat the tube and to allow for the getter to absorb any gasses that tube may have gotten in the vacuum or been left over. And there are some that will put tubes in the oven to heat the getter so that it does the same thing. Tubes are very interesting. I found it all the more so when speaking with a friend who worked for RCA in the good ole days and designed tubes and circuits. He has several patents but of course RCA got all the money.


----------



## Iamnothim

jamato8 said:


> Some will leave a nos tube in a tester for a while to heat the tube and to allow for the getter to absorb any gasses that tube may have gotten in the vacuum or been left over. And there are some that will put tubes in the oven to heat the getter so that it does the same thing. Tubes are very interesting. I found it all the more so when speaking with a friend who worked for RCA in the good ole days and designed tubes and circuits. He has several patents but of course RCA got all the money.




Interesting indeed.
I'm beginning to get a handle on a valve's anode / grid curves but I'm a long way off from understanding A/C circuits.


----------



## bareyb

I'm planning on investing in a Lyr Amp and it appears there are at least a couple of different Tubes you can order it with. Does the consensus have an opinion as to which Tube is better? Would anyone know the differences between the offerings as it relates to the sound of the Amp? 
   
   
  Here's the blurb I saw on their website:
   
   
   


> *Roll Your Own *
> Lyr ships with either new-production JJ ECC88 tubes or NOS GE 6BZ7 tubes, but feel free to substitute any 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 6BZ7, CV2492, CV2493, or 6N1P type tube, new or old, American or Russian or Chinese. The ability to use different tubes lets you tune the overall sound signature of Lyr to your specific preferences.


----------



## bareyb

I'm planning on investing in a Lyr Amp and it appears there are at least a couple of different Tubes you can order it with. Does the consensus have an opinion as to which Tube is better? Would anyone know the differences between the offerings as it relates to the sound of the Amp? 
   
   
  Here's the blurb I saw on their website:
   
   
   


> *Roll Your Own *
> Lyr ships with either new-production JJ ECC88 tubes or NOS GE 6BZ7 tubes, but feel free to substitute any 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 6BZ7, CV2492, CV2493, or 6N1P type tube, new or old, American or Russian or Chinese. The ability to use different tubes lets you tune the overall sound signature of Lyr to your specific preferences.


----------



## rlawli

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> ...
> Speaking of my collection.
> My Lorenz valves haven't arrived from Lithuania yet.


 
  Order some tubes from Russia and Lithuania will seem like overnight FedEx.


----------



## korzena

Is there a chance that Lyr with the right tubes would work well with sensitive headphones like Denon D7000 or W3000ANV? What tubes would they be?


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Mine either.  I believe we ordered the same day.  The outside limit of eBay's promised delivery date was Feb 8


 

 Mine Either!!!!
   
  Jack


----------



## eddiek997

Siemens CCa tubes for sale... http://www.head-fi.org/t/649275/siemens-cca-tubes-for-lyr-the-holy-grail
   
  Ships from PA.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Siemens CCa tubes for sale... http://www.head-fi.org/t/649275/siemens-cca-tubes-for-lyr-the-holy-grail
> 
> Ships from PA.


 

 Wow....low price, great sale when I don't have money...


----------



## gmahler2u

need advice.
   
  i'm looking socket save, I saw one in Tubemonger.com  but there are several. I don't know which one.
  Do I pick one that has 6dj8,6922....etc.?
   
  Thanks


----------



## eddiek997

You want the 9pin version.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Wow....low price, great sale when I don't have money...


 

 Yeah, I'm about to put them on Flea bay but thought I'd offer them here first where they'll be most appreciated.


----------



## paradoxper

Eddie, how much did you buy those Lorenz CCa for originally? Out of curiosity.


----------



## gmahler2u

Yeah. I was looking for Lorenz 3mica...but it's impossible.
  I found other kind of Lorenz but it's 250+, it's out my league.


----------



## gmahler2u

I found this baby in tube world.

```
[color=#ff0000][size=6][b]6922 / CCa Lorenz (Stuttgart Germany)[/b][/size][/color] (rare 6922 and CCa) [img]https://www.tubeworld.com/6922lorenz62.jpg[/img] 1 platinum low noise tube $275) E88CC=6922 LORENZ West Germany NOS 1962 original box perfect condition (27.4/27.9ma) (recommended) [img]https://www.tubeworld.com/ccalorenz.jpg[/img] 1 low noise tube $325) CCa Telefunken <> bottom NOS rebranded "LORENZ SEL" early 1960's in white box (25/27ma)
```


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Eddie, how much did you buy those Lorenz CCa for originally? Out of curiosity.


 
   
  I took them in trade for a piece of equipment. I think I was asking $200 for the kit I was selling.

 I put them on my tube tester when I received them but since then, they've been stored unused - I have too many tubes right now and thought that they're too good to waste just sitting there.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Yeah. I was looking for Lorenz 3mica...but it's impossible.
> I found other kind of Lorenz but it's 250+, it's out my league.


 
  These are Lorenz Stuttgart 3-mica...in case anyone is interested:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/LORENZ-PCC88-7DJ8-ECC88-6DJ8-/281064882127?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4170c5bfcf
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/LORENZ-PCC88-7DJ8-ECC88-6DJ8-/281064881780?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4170c5be74
   
  He sells them separately because he can't match them with his tester (so he told me).  The four 3-mica tubes I got recently were from this seller and work just fine.
   
  Again, in case anyone is interested...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> need advice.
> 
> i'm looking socket save, I saw one in Tubemonger.com  but there are several. I don't know which one.
> Do I pick one that has 6dj8,6922....etc.?
> ...


 
  Yes, the 6dj8, 6922, etc. version...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bareyb said:


> I'm planning on investing in a Lyr Amp and it appears there are at least a couple of different Tubes you can order it with. Does the consensus have an opinion as to which Tube is better? Would anyone know the differences between the offerings as it relates to the sound of the Amp?
> 
> 
> Here's the blurb I saw on their website:


 
  At the time I purchased my Lyr I didn't have a clue.  I selected the "JJ's" since my impression from reading at the time was they were better.
  They lasted about 10 days in my Lyr before I replaced them with Amperex Holland Orange Globes from the mid 60's.  Dimple getters. $65
  The difference was a 20 story elevator ride up.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bareyb said:


> I'm planning on investing in a Lyr Amp and it appears there are at least a couple of different Tubes you can order it with. Does the consensus have an opinion as to which Tube is better? Would anyone know the differences between the offerings as it relates to the sound of the Amp?
> 
> 
> Here's the blurb I saw on their website:


 
  EDIT:
   
  I lied.  I have the NOS GE 6BQ7A
  If you want them, I will mail them to you.


----------



## Sniperbombers

wait a second..

 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
 vs.
 http://www.tubemonger.com/TRIODE_FLIPPER_with_Vibration_Reduction_Base_p/triodeflipper.htm

 is there really a difference here? and i totally failed my order. I only now realized that 25 dollars was 1.. not 2 - ugh life, now i gotta pay for shipping again sigh*

 i originally bought the first linked one.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> At the time I purchased my Lyr I didn't have a clue.  I selected the "JJ's" since my impression from reading at the time was they were better.
> They lasted about 10 days in my Lyr before I replaced them with Amperex Holland Orange Globes from the mid 60's.  Dimple getters. $65
> The difference was a 20 story elevator ride up.


 
   
  Good to hear because so far I'm really not impressed with the Asgard and no DAC. But then again, should anyone be surprised by that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Put the HD800s back in the box unti the Lyr arrives.... as there's no point to having them out really.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> wait a second..
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
> vs.
> ...


 
  ECC88's are dual triode valves.
  You don't need a triode flipper because the Lyr uses both in parallel. 
  Some amps don't.  With a flipper you can rewire theamp to use the other triode after a while.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> These are Lorenz Stuttgart 3-mica...in case anyone is interested:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LORENZ-PCC88-7DJ8-ECC88-6DJ8-/281064882127?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4170c5bfcf
> 
> ...


 

 but you need to match this babys! right?


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> ECC88's are dual triode valves.
> You don't need a triode flipper because the Lyr uses both in parallel.
> Some amps don't.  With a flipper you can rewire theamp to use the other triode after a while.


 
  man i love how you're able to respond in such a timely manner. Thank you.

 last question of the day since i have to pay for shipping again for 1 more socket saver...

 http://www.tubemonger.com/Tesla_NOT_JJ_MPs_MINT_NOS_1970s_MIL_E88CC_6922_p/198.htm

 or 

 http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> man i love how you're able to respond in such a timely manner. Thank you.
> 
> last question of the day since i have to pay for shipping again for 1 more socket saver...
> 
> ...


 
  I am not qualified to give you an opinion.
  From your music preferences you need a clear bang/bang valve.
  Those might be good, but I don't know.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> but you need to match this babys! right?


 
  Yes, they should but I just took the plunge and got some from him.  I don't have a testor...all I can do is listen (and swap them around to see if there's a difference in sound).  I guess I got lucky because they sound great.  But if you guys don't want these, I can always put a bid in...I could use a third set.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> man i love how you're able to respond in such a timely manner. Thank you.
> 
> last question of the day since i have to pay for shipping again for 1 more socket saver...
> 
> ...


 
  Matsu's have a good bottom end and a smooth overall sound.  The Teslas have a good bottom end and a bit of a treble emphasis that smooths out over exended burn-in.
   
  Take your pick...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> I took them in trade for a piece of equipment. I think I was asking $200 for the kit I was selling.
> 
> I put them on my tube tester when I received them but since then, they've been stored unused - I have too many tubes right now and thought that they're too good to waste just sitting there.


 
  yeah i traded the siemens cca with eddie i believe he was asking 200 for the gear. i originally got them from mr. scary for around the same price if i recall. They were really nice quiet, non microphonic tubes and had the big sound stage you would expect from the S&H Cca. Also my transaction with Eddie was real smooth and easy, so best to who picks them up.


----------



## eddiek997

Thanks for the kind words....
   
  Soundstage, bass and mids are the real strong points of the cca's. Very revealing with the HE500's and Lyr.
  Actually the Lyr with 500's and these cca tubes are very tough combo to beat..


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Matsu's have a good bottom end and a smooth overall sound.  The Teslas have a good bottom end and a bit of a treble emphasis that smooths out over exended burn-in.
> 
> Take your pick...
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you so much! i decided to go straight for matsu's. I hope they sound just as good as you make it seem.


----------



## ilikepooters

Decided to take the plunge and order myself some good schiit (Lyr)
   
  I'll be powering Hifiman HE5-LE's and i'll be feeding the Lyr from the pre-outs of a Maverick D1.
   
  With the above combo in mind, what sort of tubes would benefit me?
   
  I noticed the HE5-LE's were very bass light when plugged into the D1, i don't know if it's because it can't supply enough power (1W headphone output) or because the headphones are just bass light by design.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Thanks for the kind words....
> 
> Soundstage, bass and mids are the real strong points of the cca's. Very revealing with the HE500's and Lyr.
> Actually the Lyr with 500's and these cca tubes are very tough combo to beat..


 
   
  6922 / E88CC / CCa DUAL TRIODE
   
  These ones?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> 6922 / E88CC / CCa DUAL TRIODE
> 
> These ones?


 
  Hate to be picky but they are all "dual triode", that is what the "CC" designation is.
   
   

   
  Note two of everything.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Decided to take the plunge and order myself some good schiit (Lyr)
> 
> I'll be powering Hifiman HE5-LE's and i'll be feeding the Lyr from the pre-outs of a Maverick D1.
> 
> ...


 
  Since you are in the UK, you might be able to find some Mullards for a better price than here in the States since the factories were in the UK.
  They are said to have a warm sound and are very desirable.
  They are on my list to buy.
   
  Others here will give you more info or correct me.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Hate to be picky but they are all "dual triode", that is what the "CC" designation is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Would you mind linking me to the exact tubes your talking about that pair well with the he-500?
   
  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MP-NIB-AMC-6922-6DJ8-E88CC-7308-CCa-preamplifier-tube-845-211-300B-2A3-Amp-/150985056523?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item232769210b&_uhb=1#ht_566wt_1163
   
  What about these?


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> 6922 / E88CC / CCa DUAL TRIODE
> 
> These ones?


 

 These are all variations (and fully compatible) with the 6DJ8 type tube (which is what the Lyr uses).
   
  Pretty much the best tubes for use in the Lyr with HE500's are the Siemens and Halske brand, the CCa variety. They are rare and much sought after. They sell on ebay and audiogon for upto $500 for a pair. 
  I have a pair listed for sale on the forums here (link..)
   
  Brent Jesse has a very informative page for these type of tubes. Link Here,
  Joes Tube lore is also a good read but this thread is tough to beat (long read though)


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Would you mind linking me to the exact tubes your talking about that pair well with the he-500?
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MP-NIB-AMC-6922-6DJ8-E88CC-7308-CCa-preamplifier-tube-845-211-300B-2A3-Amp-/150985056523?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item232769210b&_uhb=1#ht_566wt_1163
> 
> What about these?


 
  Give me a bit and I'll assemble an opinion about what I know.
  I don't know anything about those valves, but I will look into them.
  I want you to get off on the right foot, but I have a total of 12 pairs in my collection.  Others here have far more.
   
  I've been getting into the electrical components in valves so that's why I passed on that info in the post above.  I don't like to be corrected so I try to refrain from doing it to others.  As a matter of fact I end up being off base some time.  I enjoy researching the codes etched on the valves.  They reveal the date and factory where they were made.  I can do this for Philips and I'm working on understanding the others.
   
  I'll go looking a bit and see what I might find for you.  So hang in there.  I'm certain others will chime in.
   
  I will say that E88CC's and 6922 variants are a step up.  They were used mostly in test equipment and government applications. The E188CC is also very nice.   These are the types, there are other significant factors that contribute to the sonic signature.  Manufacturer, getter, shield, year, etc.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> These are all variations (and fully compatible) with the 6DJ8 type tube (which is what the Lyr uses).
> 
> Pretty much the best tubes for use in the Lyr with HE500's are the Siemens and Halske brand, the CCa variety. They are rare and much sought after. They sell on ebay and audiogon for upto $500 for a pair.
> I have a pair listed for sale on the forums here (link..)
> ...


 
  I haven't heard these but they are very fine valves.  Back a page or two, both Eddie and his valves have been vouched for.
  The pairing with the HE500 is important as well.  Again, those are top shelf valves.
  So much so that I want them.
  I have no experience in the HiFi Man pairing.


----------



## toschek

What do you guys think of these here - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-LORENZ-BWB-PCC88-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-for-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-MILITARY-ISSUED-/290848900203?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b7f2046b


----------



## steez battalion

Hey guys,
   
  I've been using my lyr for about a week and one of the tubes (GE 6BZ7) has been microphonic since the first day. I decided to wait and see if it would go away after some burn in but it seems like it's there to stay. This is with my k701's which are fairly insensitive but I've got some lcd-2s on the way and I'm wondering if they will make the microphonics less noticeable since these cans are orthos and all. The obvious answer from the residents of this thread will be to buy more tubes but I got a feeling if I get caught up in this business I might end up homeless. Well in that case, which tubes under $60 would pair well with lcd-2s in your experience? I mostly listen to electronic music and instrumental hip hop. Thanks for your time.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





steez battalion said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I've been using my lyr for about a week and one of the tubes (GE 6BZ7) has been microphonic since the first day. I decided to wait and see if it would go away after some burn in but it seems like it's there to stay. This is with my k701's which are fairly insensitive but I've got some lcd-2s on the way and I'm wondering if they will make the microphonics less noticeable since these cans are orthos and all. The obvious answer from the residents of this thread will be to buy more tubes but I got a feeling if I get caught up in this business I might end up homeless. Well in that case, which tubes under $60 would pair well with lcd-2s in your experience? I mostly listen to electronic music and instrumental hip hop. Thanks for your time.


 

 Make a note of which side is giving you problems. Then swap the tubes around (left to right right to left) and see if the noise follows. If it doesn't, the problem is not with your tubes. Check the cables going into the amp (try swapping those around too).
   
  For tubes at you might like the amperex bugle boys with LCD's (under $60) with hip hop. You're not too concerned with imaging just bass and speed which is where the Bugle boys are just fine.


----------



## steez battalion

Thank you for the suggestions. I already swapped them around and isolated the problem to 1 tube. I can also hear the sound when carefully touching the top of the culprit while the other one is completely silent. I'll take a look at the amperex you mentioned.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





steez battalion said:


> Thank you for the suggestions. I already swapped them around and isolated the problem to 1 tube. I can also hear the sound when carefully touching the top of the culprit while the other one is completely silent. I'll take a look at the amperex you mentioned.


 

 Bummer about the bad tube.
   
  It saddens me every time I hear of the demise of one.


----------



## HK_sends

If they are ones you got from Schiit with the Lyr, send Jason (and/or Schiit support) an e-mail...they should get you fixed up.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





toschek said:


> What do you guys think of these here - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-LORENZ-BWB-PCC88-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-for-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-MILITARY-ISSUED-/290848900203?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b7f2046b


 
  They are the same exact (but more expensive than) ones as these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-NOS-LORENZ-SEL-TUBES-MTCH-2PCS-/390541761887?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5aee1a5d5f&_uhb=1
  Except they are sold as New-Old-Stock (NOS) with posted test results, while the cheaper ones aren't sold as NOS, but advertised as matched (but no test results).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - The US eBay link for those tubes is here:
   
  Cheap but matched - http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-NOS-LORENZ-SEL-TUBES-MTCH-2PCS-/390541761887?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5aee1a5d5f
   
  Expensive but NOS and matched - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-LORENZ-BWB-PCC88-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-for-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-MILITARY-ISSUED-/290848900203?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b7f2046b


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> They are the same exact (but more expensive than) ones as these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-NOS-LORENZ-SEL-TUBES-MTCH-2PCS-/390541761887?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5aee1a5d5f&_uhb=1
> Except they are sold as New-Old-Stock (NOS) with posted test results, while the cheaper ones aren't sold as NOS, but advertised as matched (but no test results).
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


 
   
  Cool thank you.   What do you think of these in terms of SQ?   Are they good?   I've got a matched pair of Amperex JAN 7308s and a matched pair of Telefunken E88CC and the stock tubes already, just want to try some other options.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Would you mind linking me to the exact tubes your talking about that pair well with the he-500?
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MP-NIB-AMC-6922-6DJ8-E88CC-7308-CCa-preamplifier-tube-845-211-300B-2A3-Amp-/150985056523?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item232769210b&_uhb=1#ht_566wt_1163
> 
> What about these?


 
  I can't find much on AMC.
  The Good Points (from the listing)
  They are 6922 valves.  A higher Quality.
  They cost $52 a pair.
  Couple things I don't like.
  The listing says CCa.  Unless these are German made.  Siemans.  The they ain't CCa
  It looks like the seller put every conceivable  tube designation in the listing.
  They are from the 1980's  I think you can find some late 60's for $65 - $70  Bugle Boy's or Orange Globes come to mind.
   
  Again,  I haven't heard he-500's so I can't give you an opinion.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Cool thank you.   What do you think of these in terms of SQ?   Are they good?   I've got a matched pair of Amperex JAN 7308s and a matched pair of Telefunken E88CC and the stock tubes already, just want to try some other options.


 
  I've found them to sound really good; a great bottom end and mid-range with a slight emphasis on treble (almost but not quite sibilant)  but the treble does smooth out after a while (although the emphasis remains...at least it does to me and my LCD-2s).
   
  It's not as wide and musical a soundstage as the Stuttgart Lorenz, but they do have a good sound.
   
_As I was typing this, the TubeMonger guys just e-mailed me this and I want to share (Thanks Guys!):_
   
Some notes from the recent posts on the board
  
 "Following are Tungsram tubes at a very good price. Tungsram E88CC is a desirable tube that is often overlooked.
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MP-NIB-AMC-6922-6DJ8-E88CC-7308-CCa-preamplifier-tube-845-211-300B-2A3-Amp-/150985056523?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item232769210b&_uhb=1#ht_566wt_1163&clk_rvr_id=451088752891
  
 About Ei Yugo tubes with Lorenz label - it is a bit misleading to call these Lorenz. These are Yugo Ei Nish Plant tubes and have nothing in common with Lorenz except for the label. Almost all of these originated from the same military auction in Germany. Go for the cheapest source and you will save money. 
  
 All of the Ei Yugos should look like this. 
 Ei PCC88 (NOT Current Prod) - 1968 MPs MINT NOS Lorenz SEL Label with Bundeswehr Falcon Logo Same Date Batch 08K - Nish Yugoslavia
 http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=801 - We are out of stock."
  
  
 _*I have to hand it to the guys at TubeMonger...they have some of the best service and support I've ever seen!*_
  
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 -HK sends


----------



## toschek

Has anyone bought from tubemonger? Are they reliable? I usually buy everything from Upscale, but tubemonger has a decent deal on a matched pair of tungsram e88cc, however this quote from their website was not particularly reassuring: _NOTE: Tube boxes are not original. Our source from Hungary had re-packaged these from military bulk boxes to what seems like recently printed boxes._

Not to imply any funny business on their behalf but my Spidey sense is tingling in relation to their supplier.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Has anyone bought from tubemonger? Are they reliable? I usually buy everything from Upscale, but tubemonger has a decent deal on a matched pair of tungsram e88cc, however this quote from their website was not particularly reassuring: _NOTE: Tube boxes are not original. Our source from Hungary had re-packaged these from military bulk boxes to what seems like recently printed boxes._
> 
> Not to imply any funny business on their behalf but my Spidey sense is tingling in relation to their supplier.


 
  Tubemonger is just as reliable as Upscale.


----------



## toschek

OK cool.

Yet another stupid question. At this time I have two DACs, an ODAC and Aune T1 DAC/amp. The T1 is a tube buffer USB DAC, it also uses 6dj8 tubes (single tube). My question is, if I want to us the T1, should I match the buffer tube to the gain stage tube in the Lyr for best results or does it really not matter?

I bought the ODAC based on reviews and quality, and frankly I don't want to spend another 80 - 200 dollars on a third tube. I like the idea of lots of tubes and all but my wallet has limits.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Has anyone bought from tubemonger? Are they reliable? I usually buy everything from Upscale, but tubemonger has a decent deal on a matched pair of tungsram e88cc, however this quote from their website was not particularly reassuring: _NOTE: Tube boxes are not original. Our source from Hungary had re-packaged these from military bulk boxes to what seems like recently printed boxes._
> 
> Not to imply any funny business on their behalf but my Spidey sense is tingling in relation to their supplier.


 
  TubeMonger was the main source of the Lorenz Stuttgart tubes that many of us bought.  I bought at least half of my tubes from them (close to $1000-1200 worth).  They do use new boxes but they write the test scores of each tube on the box so you know you are getting tested and matched tubes.  They are an excellent source of tubes.  If I had any complaint, it's that they ran out of the Lorenz tubes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> TubeMonger was the main source of the Lorenz Stuttgart tubes that many of us bought.  I bought at least half of my tubes from them (close to $1000-1200 worth).  They do use new boxes but they write the test scores of each tube on the box so you know you are getting tested and matched tubes.  They are an excellent source of tubes.  If I had any complaint, it's that they ran out of the Lorenz tubes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I wish I was there to pick up some Lorenz!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I wish I was there to pick up some Lorenz!


 
  Don't get the wrong impressions. Even when the Lorenz was available it was unobtanium.


----------



## Iamnothim

I got glass that hasn't been heated yet and another set on the way.


----------



## gmahler2u

it's pretty much hard to find tube...sel easier to find in ebay.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> it's pretty much hard to find tube...sel easier to find in ebay.


 
  oh I can find em'
  I just can't pay for them


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> oh I can find em'
> I just can't pay for them


 

 Oh I cant find em...period.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Oh I cant find em...period.


 
  This would be a nice start...
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/649275/siemens-cca-tubes-for-lyr-the-holy-grail


----------



## bareyb

Have any of you had any issues with the Lyr having a lot of Tube noise in the silent passages or in the silent background?  Any issues with Turn-on/off Thump?


----------



## Iamnothim

I haven't had overall tube noise.
  I had one microphonic set of USN-CEP's and a single fuzzy Bugle Boy.
  eMail Schit.
  Also might want to check it on a different power circuit with nothing else running on that breaker.
   
  If I turn it off with the cans plugged in I'll hear the relay cut, but it's harmless.
  There is a circuit protection.
   
  I just follow a ritual of turning the volume all off, pulling the plug, and turning it off.


----------



## MickeyVee

Silly me. Got the Lorenz before I got the Lyr as everyone was so hot on them and when I got the Lyr, sold the Lorenz to fund my Bifrost. Only listened to the Lorenz for about 10 hours before I sold them.  I was too green at the time to appreciate them.  Glad OS is enjoying them.
  Playing around with various Amperex (PQ, Orange Globe)  right now and have some Matsu, Mullard and the stock GE's.  Pretty happy camper right now.
  Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I wish I was there to pick up some Lorenz!


----------



## NightFlight

Do these look on the level?
   
  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pair-of-vintage-Siemens-Gold-Pin-6922s-/111012738076?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d8dff41c&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1236
   
  Seller appears to have 3 pair. Wondering if I should grab a pair.


----------



## bareyb

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I haven't had overall tube noise.
> I had one microphonic set of USN-CEP's and a single fuzzy Bugle Boy.
> eMail Schit.
> Also might want to check it on a different power circuit with nothing else running on that breaker.
> ...


 
  I'm thinking these are isolated instances. I don't have a Lyr yet, but I've been researching them. I was all but set to pull the trigger when I read some negative reviews. Background noise would be a big problem for me. I'm kind of a freak about that.


----------



## MickeyVee

You're right, isolated instances.  My Lyr is dead silent.  Other than one set of bad tubes, the background has been pretty black.  I'm thrilled with it! I stopped the music playing and turned it up to about 2 o'clock and heard a little bit of hum. Note that I'm at 8-9 most of the time and at 10, it's way too loud. 
   
  Quote: 





bareyb said:


> I'm thinking these are isolated instances. I don't have a Lyr yet, but I've been researching them. I was all but set to pull the trigger when I read some negative reviews. Background noise would be a big problem for me. I'm kind of a freak about that.


----------



## Iamnothim

I don't own any German glass yet.  Don't have any Mullards yet either.
  I have the basic Lorenz on the way not the super mica stuff.
   
  Most of what I own is Amperex.
  USN-CEP, a couple of 60's OG's, 1960 NY "D" getters, sold my Bugle Boys.
  Of those.....
  Nothing comes close to the 1965 La Radiotechnique (Philips)  that fearless put me on to.
  Nothing... I have. Nothing... by a wide margin.
   
  1965, E188CC, Gold Pin, Large "O" Getter.
  These are Philips "SQ" grade.
  Although branded La Radiotechnique mine were made in a Philips plant in Heerlen Holland.
  So something that says Philips, E188CC, "SQ" should be the same thing.
   
  I don't care if they say WalMart, if you see them set a set.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Do these look on the level?
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pair-of-vintage-Siemens-Gold-Pin-6922s-/111012738076?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d8dff41c&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1236
> 
> Seller appears to have 3 pair. Wondering if I should grab a pair.


 
  I didn't see where he has more than one pair.
  He's a private party with one transaction since 2011
   
  But they do look nice for $85
  They are gold pin.  That's good.  They are 6922 grade.  That's good.
  I can't tell you the year of mfg.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bareyb said:


> I'm thinking these are isolated instances. I don't have a Lyr yet, but I've been researching them. I was all but set to pull the trigger when I read some negative reviews. Background noise would be a big problem for me. I'm kind of a freak about that.


 
  Folks on this thread are serious.
  Collections with lots of vintage tubes.  In other words, they're vested in the Lyr.
  The product is Rock Solid.
  Schiit customer service is Rock Solid.
   
  I'ts one heck of a product.


----------



## bareyb

Quote:


mickeyvee said:


> You're right, isolated instances.  My Lyr is dead silent.  Other than one set of bad tubes, the background has been pretty black.  I'm thrilled with it! I stopped the music playing and turned it up to about 2 o'clock and heard a little bit of hum. Note that I'm at 8-9 most of the time and at 10, it's way too loud.


 
   
  Quote:


iamnothim said:


> Folks on this thread are serious.
> Collections with lots of vintage tubes.  In other words, they're vested in the Lyr.
> The product is Rock Solid.
> Schiit customer service is Rock Solid.
> ...


 
  I figured if anyone would know about "Tube Noise" it'd be the people in this thread. Thanks for setting me straight.


----------



## toschek

Haha, well OK. I'll buy from tubemonger with confidence then. 

As to my second question, what's the consensus when you are using a tube dac ? Use the same tube as you are using in the Lyr? My amp & one of my dacs both use the same tube type and I am dreading buying matched quads of some of these guys. My Lyr hasn't come yet but I'd always bought my tubes in matched pairs before so I'd have a spare, and now I'm buying in 3s. Ouch.

I think if I do the math on this, it'll be more affordable to just use my ODAC and buy a Bifrost when some ps3 game I just have to play comes out. I really wish that Bifrost had one or two analog pass through inputs so I could hook my phono preamp and my Wii U (or that Lyr had a couple of selectable RCA inputs.) Just two switchable analog line ins along with the digital inputs would be perfect, no more cable fiddling or crawling around under the desk, just living like a roman emperor in my sonic cocoon. I'd have no reservations about picking one up. As it is, I can buy some sort of ADC and take an SQ hit or just reconnect every time which is annoying. I guess nothing is perfect or this wouldn't be hi-fi


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Most of what I own is Amperex.
> USN-CEP, a couple of 60's OG's, 1960 NY "D" getters, sold my Bugle Boys.
> Of those.....
> Nothing comes close to the 1965 La Radiotechnique (Philips)  that fearless put me on to.
> Nothing... I have. Nothing... by a wide margin.


 
  I am glad you like them, I think they are just outstanding. Honestly,  the Lorenz triple micas do not even stand up to their melodic tone.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I didn't see where he has more than one pair.
> He's a private party with one transaction since 2011
> 
> But they do look nice for $85
> ...


 
   
  Other listings. 3x pairs of same listing.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Other listings. 3x pairs of same listing.


 
  I was just looking them over.
   
  I was real close to buying a set.
  They are "Disk" getters which are newer.
  They have a "3" stamp and I don't think it's for 1963.  Probably 1973
  My guess.
   
  No matter.  I have a set of Amperex disk getters and they sound great.
  For $85.....  I'm not going to tell you what to do.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  But look at the third set.  The labels are almost intact.
  Better than the other two.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> I am glad you like them, I think they are just outstanding. Honestly,  *the Lorenz triple micas do not even stand up to their melodic tone.*


 
  Great, now I gotta go hunt for more tubes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Heck.  You and the valves are in Canada.
  That's a plus.
   
  Again.  A 6922 / gold pin is a better tube.
  6922's were used for test equipment and the military  (I said this before....)
  Tighter tolerances .... should (Should) last longer.
   
  Guy's
  Am I missing anything on these?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> I am glad you like them, I think they are just outstanding. Honestly,  the Lorenz triple micas do not even stand up to their melodic tone.


 
  I have just finished rolling every single set I own... in ... and out...
  It has done nothing but confirm the Epic status I give these valves.....  If only I could put my hands on them.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Other listings. 3x pairs of same listing.


 
  This is the set with the best labels 
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pair-of-vintage-Siemens-Gold-Pin-6922s-/111012738110?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d8dff43e&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1378


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Heck.  You and the valves are in Canada.
> That's a plus.
> 
> Again.  A 6922 / gold pin is a better tube.
> ...


 
  Yep. I was doing flea bay country restricted searches.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





bareyb said:


> Have any of you had any issues with the Lyr having a lot of Tube noise in the silent passages or in the silent background? * Any issues with Turn-on/off Thump? *


 
   
   
  Yes, too much for my taste ... just one man's opinion.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> This is the set with the best labels
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pair-of-vintage-Siemens-Gold-Pin-6922s-/111012738110?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d8dff43e&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1378


 

 Imma gonna hold off. I have to slow down. I don't even have the Amp or my 6N23Ps yet. LOL


----------



## toschek

iamnothim said:


> This is the set with the best labels
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pair-of-vintage-Siemens-Gold-Pin-6922s-/111012738110?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d8dff43e&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1378




Forget it, even though advertised as a pair these are in fact not matched per the seller. I messaged him last night and got a reply right away. 

_Dear xxxxxx,

Thank you for your interest. The tubes are not matched. From the date code, I believe the tubes are from 1973. Cheers.

- xxxxxx_


----------



## TooPoor

So after some very hasty research combined with a complete inability to control my impulsive audio related purchasing habit, I just bought these from mercedesman.
   
 AMPEREX 6DJ8 ECC88 ORANGE LABEL VACUUM TUBE MATCHED PAIR 1974 CHECKED TEKTRONIX  I know little to nothing about tubes, but these kept coming up for the sound I was looking for. We'll see how they pair with my Lyr and LCD2.2s...


----------



## gmahler2u

anyone received their Lorenz Sel  pcc88? if you did receive it. how long did you take it?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> anyone received their Lorenz Sel  pcc88? if you did receive it. how long did you take it?
> 
> Thanks


 
  Nope.
   
  I have faith they will get here.
  The seller gave me a Lithuanian Post tracking number.  It worked until it left Lithuania then the global post system didn't recognize the number.


----------



## drumsnspace

Just letting you guys know that I am selling my Amperex USN-CEP 6922 tubes, they have about 150 hours total on them and they are a matched pair from MercedesMan from epay. Looking for $125 shipped for the set, less than half of what I paid. I'm trying to fund a speaker set up! 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/650759/amperex-1965-usn-cep-6922


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Nope.
> 
> I have faith they will get here.
> The seller gave me a Lithuanian Post tracking number.  It worked until it left Lithuania then the global post system didn't recognize the number.


 
   
  How long ago did you order?   I bought from the same person I think.   I bought some Amperex 6DJ8's from Israel and they took about 5 weeks to get here but they are the real deal, just took a ton of time to get here.
   
  I really want to get my hands on these Lorenz though, I'm glad I've got great tubes already in the meantime.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> Just letting you guys know that I am selling my Amperex USN-CEP 6922 tubes, they have about 150 hours total on them and they are a matched pair from MercedesMan from epay. Looking for $125 shipped for the set, less than half of what I paid. I'm trying to fund a speaker set up!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/650759/amperex-1965-usn-cep-6922


 
  Those are great valves.
  That's a great price.
   
  If I didn't already own a pair......  I'm still thinking about it.
   
  GMahler..... hello?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toschek said:


> How long ago did you order?   I bought from the same person I think.   I bought some Amperex 6DJ8's from Israel and they took about 5 weeks to get here but they are the real deal, just took a ton of time to get here.
> 
> I really want to get my hands on these Lorenz though, I'm glad I've got great tubes already in the meantime.


 
  Jan. 20th


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Those are great valves.
> That's a great price.
> 
> If I didn't already own a pair......  I'm still thinking about it.
> ...


 
  don't be afraid of some back ups 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 seriously though, these things are on the money. very smooth and versatile. i figured someone would jump on em for that price, but i guess that's not the case. someone come along and help fuel my audio craze! The Lyr's also gotta go too, anyone interested in a back up unit?


----------



## toschek

Do these look legit? http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-E88CC-CV2492-6922-PAIR-OF-BRITISH-MADE-MILITARY-GOLD-PIN-VINTAGE-VALVES-/181079901266?ssPageName=ADME%3AB%3AEOIBSA%3AUS%3A3160&nma=true&si=wah6QzVytMlozoe%252BaS5%252BOzn7H%252BQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Bought as a matched pair, I do hope they are the real deal.


PS: thank you to drumsnspace


----------



## Trance_Gott

I am selling my matched pair of Siemens & Halske E188CC 60s
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/651655/siemens-halske-e188cc-60s-matched-pair
   
  And one tube of Valvo E288CC red logo if someone needs one for replacement
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/651582/valvo-e288cc-tube-with-red-logo


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Nope.
> 
> I have faith they will get here.
> The seller gave me a Lithuanian Post tracking number.  It worked until it left Lithuania then the global post system didn't recognize the number.


 

 Great...thank you for the info.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> Just letting you guys know that I am selling my Amperex USN-CEP 6922 tubes, they have about 150 hours total on them and they are a matched pair from MercedesMan from epay. Looking for $125 shipped for the set, less than half of what I paid. I'm trying to fund a speaker set up!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/650759/amperex-1965-usn-cep-6922


 

 wow I need to sell my kidney...


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Those are great valves.
> That's a great price.
> 
> If I didn't already own a pair......  I'm still thinking about it.
> ...


 

 Yes, I'm looking but I see my wallet with bunch of recept instead of money... LOLOL


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Nope.
> 
> I have faith they will get here.
> The seller gave me a Lithuanian Post tracking number.  It worked until it left Lithuania then the global post system didn't recognize the number.


 
  Same exact issue with me--also ordered Jan 20--I just started a case with EBAY just in case they don't show up--
   
  I am in the US
   
  One time I ordered from Russia and it did take like 5-6 weeks--
   
  Ordered from England took like 6 Days---Go figure!!!
   
  Jack


----------



## ilikepooters

Amp turned up today, but it wasn't a Lyr, i was sent an Asgard instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Ah well send it back and wait another 3 days until i can get my hands on a Lyr.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





toschek said:


> How long ago did you order?   I bought from the same person I think.   I bought some Amperex 6DJ8's from Israel and they took about 5 weeks to get here but they are the real deal, just took a ton of time to get here.
> 
> I really want to get my hands on these Lorenz though, I'm glad I've got great tubes already in the meantime.


 
   
  Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> Same exact issue with me--also ordered Jan 20--I just started a case with EBAY just in case they don't show up--
> 
> I am in the US
> 
> ...


 
  The tubes are the real deal as far as being Lorenz SEL, but it does seem to take a very long time to get them from that particular seller.  I do hope your wait is worth it.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> wow I need to sell my kidney...


 
   
  You have made me an offer which I can't refuse!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  How about a pair of Pinched Waist Amperex for your Soul?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> You have made me an offer which I can't refuse!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I guess that's what greater than original Lorenz.  I should put that in my wishlist.


----------



## IcedTea

I know this thread is extremely large, and I'm not sure how to search through it all >.< 
   
  I was wondering if you guys could recommend some tubes for my HD650? if possible, I would like to make the mids even more syrupy and smooth  
   
  Also, where do you guys buy your tubes from? Is there a website that is trustworthy and reliable? 
   
  I'm slowly getting back into hi-fi and figured I might as well start it off with tube rolling (opposed to buying new phones lol )


----------



## gmahler2u

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281064882127?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/281064881780?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281064882127?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281064881780?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649


 
  I can't access e-bay from work...what are the links?  The Lorenz Stuttgart tubes?  For the record, I didn't bid on them...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I can't access e-bay from work...what are the links?  The Lorenz Stuttgart tubes?  For the record, I didn't bid on them...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  $300 ....Each.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> $300 ....Each.


 





 !!?!?!?
  If I hang on to my Lorenz tube collection, in 10 yrs from now, I could probably offload them for a Maserati or a Rolls Royce!


----------



## toschek

Wow, that is stunning. Looks like both went to the same bidder ... not even matched.


----------



## toschek

icedtea said:


> I know this thread is extremely large, and I'm not sure how to search through it all >.<
> 
> I was wondering if you guys could recommend some tubes for my HD650? if possible, I would like to make the mids even more syrupy and smooth
> 
> ...




I get most of my stuff from upscale audio. The Amperex 7308s might make a nice match for you, they sound pretty nice on my setup.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> $300 ....Each.


 
  WOW!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Not even matched or anything...
   
  Yes, those prices would have put them way outta my reach.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - I wonder if the buyer wants to hear that I bought four of the same tubes from the same seller for $69 each?  No, perhaps not...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> !!?!?!?
> If I hang on to my Lorenz tube collection, in 10 yrs from now, I could probably offload them for a Maserati or a Rolls Royce!


 
  No...(waves hand)...you don't want to hold on to your Lorenz collection...
  (Waves hand again)...Those were not the tubes you were looking for...
  (Last wave)...sell them cheap...here's my e-mail address...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> WOW!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Whacked.... totally.
   
  That listing had almost no information and bad photos!
  He said it was from the 1st year of production ..... the stamp was bad  either 58' or 68'
  $600  unmatched.   "Tested Good"  Am I missing something?
   
  EDIT:
  Were they autographed by Otto Lorenz?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Whacked.... totally.
> 
> That listing had almost no information and bad photos!
> He said it was from the 1st year of production ..... the stamp was bad  either 58' or 68'
> $600  unmatched.   "Tested Good"  Am I missing something?


 
  Seriously, yes...you missed one thing...how many other Lorenz 3-mica tubes has anyone seen get offered for sale recently? (Mine don't count...I just got incredibly lucky)  Some of us have been pimping these as the best tube ever (yes, I am guilty as well) and that if there was ever an opportunity to snag a set, to go for it.
   
  Honestly, I never imagined the bids for the tubes would shoot that high but there are some folks that are bound and determined to get a set...cost be darned.  And who knows, the tubes may pair very well and be matched for all we know.  I sincerely hope the buyer gets the best out of them and feels they are worth it.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I can't access e-bay from work...what are the links?  The Lorenz Stuttgart tubes?  For the record, I didn't bid on them...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, I was bidding but each tube sell it for around $300.  too much for me.


----------



## gmahler2u

I found the valvo 6922 red label matched pair, so I was curious about valvo I got that instead.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> !!?!?!?
> If I hang on to my Lorenz tube collection, in 10 yrs from now, I could probably offload them for a Maserati or a Rolls Royce!


 
  you can let me borrow your Lorenz and for that I'll give you apple.


----------



## gmahler2u

what ya think about this tube?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/321073626655?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## toschek

gmahler2u said:


> what ya think about this tube?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321073626655?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649




I haven't seen anything about Lorenz CCa except a brief mention @ Brent Jesse but isn't that just a single?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> what ya think about this tube?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321073626655?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


 
  I think that if he had three more of the same tubes, you and I could get a set each!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I would consider it seriously (if I had the cash)...but you really need two.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I haven't seen anything about Lorenz CCa except a brief mention @ Brent Jesse but isn't that just a single?


 

 Yes, it's just single tube.  I was heart broken! when I saw that x1.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> No...(waves hand)...you don't want to hold on to your Lorenz collection...
> (Waves hand again)...Those were not the tubes you were looking for...
> (Last wave)...sell them cheap...here's my e-mail address...
> 
> ...


 
  (Waves hand) this is not the e-mail address I was looking for....


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> you can let me borrow your Lorenz and for that I'll give you apple.


 
  I'm not greedy.
   
  10% of Apple's shares is enough for me.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> (Waves hand) this is not the e-mail address I was looking for....


 
  Darn!  Oh well, maybe next time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - I have simpler tastes...I'd just be happy with Facebook's tax return.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Whacked.... totally.
> 
> That listing had almost no information and bad photos!
> He said it was from the 1st year of production ..... the stamp was bad  either 58' or 68'
> ...


 
  Likely only the $300 ones were autographed by Lorenz, Tesla, Ohm and Einstein!!!!


----------



## TooPoor

******* this amp. First of all, I just got it and already am amazed by it. Secondly, due to this thread, I bought 74' Orange Globes WHEN I bought the amp (they'll be here in a day or so). It was hard enough trying to justify a couple $1k+ headphones to my fiance, but I think tubes are going to do me in. What's another $300 for rare, amazing tubes, right?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Likely only the $300 ones were autographed by Lorenz, Tesla, Ohm and Einstein!!!!


 
  You forgot Siemans, Faraday...  Henry


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> ******* this amp. First of all, I just got it and already am amazed by it. Secondly, due to this thread, I bought 74' Orange Globes WHEN I bought the amp (they'll be here in a day or so). It was hard enough trying to justify a couple $1k+ headphones to my fiance, but I think tubes are going to do me in. What's another $300 for rare, amazing tubes, right?


 
  relax.... there are still deals to be had.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> The tubes are the real deal as far as being Lorenz SEL, but it does seem to take a very long time to get them from that particular seller.  I do hope your wait is worth it.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Just wanted to share my experience with Lorenz SEL tubes.
   
  So far, the 2 versions of the Lorenz SEL in my possession were either made by Mullard Blackburn or by Nish in Yugoslavia.
   
  So if you are a gambling man and see a bunch of these tubes selling cheaply on Ebay, it is worthwhile to consider buying them.
  It can be a very cost-effective way to get the famous Mullards at a steep discount.


----------



## TooPoor

Quick question... My stock tubes DO NOT want to go in to the rear socket. I apply light pressure and it literally pops out. It then makes a ting(ing) sound because it refuses to sit properly. Am I missing something? Ineptitude?


----------



## Iamnothim

Hey,
   
  I like these....  E188CC   Gold Pin, Mitchum.
  I'd like them better if they were made in the 60's
  $130 USD  he has 8 sets.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-E188CC-7308-NOS-Valves-Tubes-E88CC-6922-CCa-CV2492-/330876855394?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item4d09cc2462


----------



## toschek

Just dropped in some Telefunken E88CC/6922 tubes, brand new NOS. These guys are amazing, beautiful separation/staging and they just get out of the way of the music. I hate to admit how much I paid for a cryoed matched set but it was so worth it. 

Man I love rolling.


----------



## toschek

toopoor said:


> Quick question... My stock tubes DO NOT want to go in to the rear socket. I apply light pressure and it literally pops out. It then makes a ting(ing) sound because it refuses to sit properly. Am I missing something? Ineptitude?




Don't force the tube so it tings, you're going to make it microphonic. Check for obstructions and alignment. Also, get socket savers -- they will make rolling much easier.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Hey,
> 
> I like these....  E188CC   Gold Pin, Mitchum.
> I'd like them better if they were made in the 60's
> ...


 
  Quoting myself here...
   
  Forget the above, They are 1972.  Big difference.
   
  However these are 1960.....
   
   
  EDIT.
   
  Just bought a pair
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/310353960765?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
   
  $60 per pair more, but I think it's worth it.


----------



## TooPoor

Fer cereal. Is there something wrong with the amp? It's about as silent as a bowl game. I can hear noise coming from the right driver of all my headphones, obviously the rear socket. Is this just a normal part of a hybrid tube amp? It's almost to the point of annoyance. I also refuse to believe that I'm incapable of properly rolling a stock tube.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Fer cereal. Is there something wrong with the amp? It's about as silent as a bowl game. I can hear noise coming from the right driver of all my headphones, obviously the rear socket. Is this just a normal part of a hybrid tube amp? It's almost to the point of annoyance. I also refuse to believe that I'm incapable of properly rolling a stock tube.


 
  Not normal at all.
  Should be dead silent.
   
  Reverse the positions of the valves, front to back.
  Hopefully the distortion will follow the valve.


----------



## toschek

Mine is dead silent. If you "tinged" your tube a lot it has probably got some microphony issues. Sorry to bear bad news. You may want to try another outlet and another set of tubes as well as switching sockets for the tubes that are in there now.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Just bought a pair
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310353960765?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
> 
> $60 per pair more, but I think it's worth it.


 
  Anxious to hear your impression of those Mullards.
   
  Years ago, I bought a couple pairs of Mullard tubes from that seller, who seemed very "connected" with the Mullard factory.
   
  The tubes arrived perfect and a good transaction, FWIW.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> I'm not greedy.
> 
> 10% of Apple's shares is enough for me.


 

 Send it to me I'll pay the postage!!


----------



## TooPoor

I must have 'tinged' it. Thankfully I have some Orange Globes arriving today/tomorrow and some 'socket savers'. FWIW, I did switch them and still hear it. I can't believe I managed to damage both tubes in one day.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I must have 'tinged' it. Thankfully I have some Orange Globes arriving today/tomorrow and some 'socket savers'. FWIW, I did switch them and still hear it. I can't believe I managed to damage both tubes in one day.


 
   
  IMO, it is very unlikely you damaged both valves in one day by handling them wrong.  They are more durable than you think and a little tap can actually clear up some static issues.  
   
  Please clarify what you are saying.... you rotated the valves and now both channels have noise?
   
  If you went from one bad channel to two bad channels after rolling I would hold off installing the OG's in the unlikely event that your Lyr is damaging the valves that were placed in the one socket.
  Hence one valve get's corrupted, it is moved to another socket, and the replacement valve get's corrupted.  I haven't heard of this happening, but it's electronics and anything can happen.
   
  If Schiit doesn't send you new factory valves, I will.  I only use my stock valves for testing.


----------



## TooPoor

My fear is that maybe I applied too much pressure? The tubes, like I said, do not feel as though they are secured at all. They light up and when the volume is up, you can't hear anything. But it is certainly not dead silent. This is mainly from the right channel. I hear it more with my Sig Pros than the LCD's. The word 'ting' definitely explains it. Who knows, after work it might be fine. Crazier things have happened.


----------



## TooPoor

I'm guessing, after speaking with Jason, that I'm just not pushing them down hard enough. I was very worried about breaking them. We'll see when I get home. Thanks for the input though.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I'm guessing, after speaking with Jason, that I'm just not pushing them down hard enough. I was very worried about breaking them. We'll see when I get home. Thanks for the input though.


 
  There's a real "feel" to working with them.
  They can take more abuse than you think.
   
  How I would approach it is to remove them, examine the pins and start again.
   
  Removal without tube extenders can be a bit of a pain.  Firmly pinch the crown of the tube with your fingertips.  Gently rock back and forth an 18th to 1/4" inch side to side and back and forth, while trying to apply upward, extraction pressure with your fingertips.  This can take some time. It can be frustrating too.  Do a bit.  then take a break and resume.  The tube will come out.
   
  Reverse the process to insert the tube, except with minimal rocking.  "Light-Medium" pressure should put seat them nicely.  Pay careful attention to the 9 pin socket.  The tube can only be aligned one way to go in.  You may hear a squeak / creak sound when you push the tube in.  That's normal.   Also look at the picture of the Lyr.  This will give you an idea what the Lyr should look like with the tubes fully seated on the socket.
   
  Hoping for the best.
   
  Jason,  If you are reading, perhaps you should put together a Youtube video on this topic.


----------



## TooPoor

Here's how it looked last night:
   

   
   Looks way too high. Hope I didn't damage anything...


----------



## Iamnothim

Indeed.

The good news is they would not light up if the pin orientation is wrong.
Pins 4 & 5 are the heater pins. They are working.
Might just be that the anode, grid, cathode pins are not secure resulting an unstable contact and noise.

Purely conjecture on my part.
They certainly look a bit high.

If you can easily extract the tubes than they were not seated well. Because when the tube is seated correctly it's difficult tor remove.


----------



## paradoxper

They do look a bit high, but which tubes are you using?


----------



## OldSkool

TooPoor, here's a tip or two...
   
  Install the "rear" tube first. That way you can watch the insertion thru the empty hole for the "front" tube.
   
  When inserting a tube, push firmly enough to fully insert the pins until the base of the tube makes full contact with the white tube socket.
   
  Is that clear as mud?


----------



## TooPoor

I'm completely conflicted at this point in my head-fi journey. Should I be buying thousands of dollars worth of head-fi gear if I can't properly insert a tube?? Sarcasm aside, I very much appreciate everyone's input. I'm still new to this all (relatively speaking).


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I'm completely conflicted at this point in my head-fi journey. Should I be buying thousands of dollars worth of head-fi gear if I can't properly insert a tube?? Sarcasm aside, I very much appreciate everyone's input. I'm still new to this all (relatively speaking).


 
  It's fine... not life or death.
  When inserting a tube here's how I do it...
  1. Rubber glove (the one you proctologist uses but make sure it's fresh, not used).
  2. Flashlight in the other hand (visibility is key).
  3. With the flashlight on, line up the tube with the corresponding holes in the amp - line up the two pins with the gap between them with the gap in the amp.
  4. Gently but firmly Push down whilst very very slightly wiggling left/right.
  5. Check that it's all the way in (get your mind out of the gutter).
  6. Turn on amp.
  7. Wait 5 minutes.
  8. Sit back and listen. Enjoy the music.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> It's fine... not life or death.
> When inserting a tube here's how I do it...
> 1. Rubber glove (the one you proctologist uses but make sure it's fresh, not used).
> 2. Flashlight in the other hand (visibility is key).
> ...


 
  Old Skool & Eddie,
  More good tips.
   
  I have to post a plug for one of my top five tools.  Get A HEADLAMP.   It will change your life.  Home Depot / Costco have 3 packs.
  Everyone... Just buy one.
   
  TooPoor.
  This isn't a concern with your stock tubes, but when your vintage stuff comes in be careful with the labels, the printing is fragile.


----------



## OldSkool

Hmmm. You mean a headlamp that attaches to the bill of your cap, or the kind that miners wear on their hard hats? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I may just drop this hobby if we need to start wearing protective headgear.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Hmmm. You mean a headlamp that attaches to the bill of your cap, or the kind that miners wear on their hard hats?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Pelz is a great brand.  IMO
  This is a low cost version, but highly rated.
  You can get some amazing models.
  You won't know what you did without one.
   
http://www.amazon.com/Petzl-E91-PE-Headlamp-Electric/dp/B0027GVIOW/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1361491079&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=pelz+headlamp


----------



## toschek

Kind of off-topic, more related to mods ... All my old guitar tube amps have/had a standby switch to make it safe(r) to unplug/plug your instrument in without damaging anything. The sequence is always standby on -> amp on -> plug in -> wait 30 seconds -> standby off -> rock out -> standby on -> amp off -> unplug. How hard would it be to implement this on the Lyr? 

Because of those persistent rumors about turning the Lyr on/off with headphones plugged in I always turn the volume down and then plug/unplug. However, there is still an unpleasant, albeit low crackle and I'm concerned I'm damaging my drivers. Maybe this is a myth and has been debunked so let me know if I'm on the wrong track with this line of thought.

Also, found this earlier today if anyone wants to read an old 60s manual on the care and feeding if your vacuum tubes: http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/MostVacuumTubes.pdf


----------



## toschek

Hey Iamnothim, where did you get the bumpers in your picture? I'm assuming those are vibration dampers of some kind? What do they do exactly?


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Hey Iamnothim, where did you get the bumpers in your picture? I'm assuming those are vibration dampers of some kind? What do they do exactly?


 
   
  I just bought some PEEK dampers from Herbie's Audio Lab. Very satisfied. They have other designs as well:
   
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/index.htm


----------



## Iamnothim

Got them here:  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm
   
  They remind me of my childhood....


----------



## toschek

I sure am digging the new MBV through this piece of schiit.


----------



## TooPoor

Not that anyone cares, but you guys were exactly right about my inability to properly insert the tubes. It should be noted that due to my grip, (I train with 250lbs hand grippers) I'm a bit apprehensive about 'firmly' setting the tubes. They're definitely set now though


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Not that anyone cares, but you guys were exactly right about my inability to properly insert the tubes. It should be noted that due to my grip, (I train with 250lbs hand grippers) I'm a bit apprehensive about 'firmly' setting the tubes. They're definitely set now though


 

 If you like music - We all care.
   
  Now, buy some more tubes and go thru the whole process again.
   
  and again.

 and again.


----------



## TooPoor

I'm already excited for my Orange Globes. Matched, '74, that's about all I know at this point. Still doing my research. Tubes are perfect for me with my buying OCD. And my LCD's are so much different from my Sig Pro's, that tubes will definitely play a huge role in what I'll roll with each can. They're these btw:
   
   AMPEREX 6DJ8 ECC88 ORANGE LABEL VACUUM TUBE MATCHED PAIR 1974 CHECKED TEKTRONIX


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Likely only the $300 ones were autographed by Lorenz, Tesla, Ohm and Einstein!!!!


 
   
  I'd buy that for a dollar.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Hey,
> 
> I like these....  E188CC   Gold Pin, Mitchum.
> I'd like them better if they were made in the 60's
> ...


 

 You ... evil... person. Don't post stuff like that.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I'm already excited for my Orange Globes. Matched, '74, that's about all I know at this point. Still doing my research. Tubes are perfect for me with my buying OCD. And my LCD's are so much different from my Sig Pro's, that tubes will definitely play a huge role in what I'll roll with each can. They're these btw:
> 
> AMPEREX 6DJ8 ECC88 ORANGE LABEL VACUUM TUBE MATCHED PAIR 1974 CHECKED TEKTRONIX


 
   
  Me too. I snagged  a pair of 67's today for $40, but they were local. So I'm hoping to see them next week. Currently listening to stock like you.
  I grabbed some Cryro 6N23P-EVs a 1.5 weeks ago or so, hoping they show soon. Search this thread. They got some nods which triggered my purchase.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I'm completely conflicted at this point in my head-fi journey. Should I be buying thousands of dollars worth of head-fi gear if I can't properly insert a tube?? Sarcasm aside, I very much appreciate everyone's input. I'm still new to this all (relatively speaking).


 
   
  Ever installed DIMM modules? (RAM) into a modern computer? The full size sticks require more pressure than you think. So much so you might think you're going to crack the motherboard. But, this is what it takes. Once the tube is seated fully, there should be no play at all. It should take force on par with insertion to start it rocking it back out.
   
  Not that I have removed a tube... I only had to install mine. I had no issues, but I've a ... knack for this sort of thing by now.  Give me a socket and I know what to do with her.


----------



## Iamnothim

toopoor said:


> Not that anyone cares, but you guys were exactly right about my inability to properly insert the tubes. It should be noted that due to my grip, (I train with 250lbs hand grippers) I'm a bit apprehensive about 'firmly' setting the tubes. They're definitely set now though




Thanks for the update. I'm truly happy for ya.


----------



## Iamnothim

nightflight said:


> You ... evil... person. Don't post stuff like that. :tongue_smile:




Don't buy those. They're 74' dimple getters. Too new. 
I bought the 1960 Mullard RTC. E188CC. More money but better valves. $200
There are mor eavailable.


----------



## TooPoor

So quick update. My Sig Pro's still pick up on an audible hum/ticking. The LCD's are dead quiet... So at the moment, when I need to switch to the closed back Sig Pro's, I'm just plugging them into my E12. The tubes are definitely snug now. They went in just as you guys said they would.


----------



## toschek

iamnothim said:


> Got them here:  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm
> 
> They remind me of my childhood....




That is so cool, I just picked up brass dampers from Brent Jesse. I am having a hard time swallowing these claims about separation/staging improvements but for $30 why not try it. 



toopoor said:


> So quick update. My Sig Pro's still pick up on an audible hum/ticking. The LCD's are dead quiet... So at the moment, when I need to switch to the closed back Sig Pro's, I'm just plugging them into my E12. The tubes are definitely snug now. They went in just as you guys said they would.




Sig Pros are what 32 Ω? That hum could be impedance related or they are just super sensitive. Have you tried moving the power cable to a different outlet? I had a 60Hz hum and then when I changed outlets it went away completely.


----------



## TooPoor

The Sig Pro's certainly do not have any synergy with the Lyr (unles turned up quite a bit), but that was to be expected.


----------



## toschek

How are the LCDs? I am dying to try those now, everyone keeps raving about them.


----------



## jackiedh

Iamnothim---
   
  Have you received your tubes yet from Lithuania--I know some have who have ordered way after me --(Jan 22nd)??
   
  Thanks
   
  Jack


----------



## Iamnothim

jackiedh said:


> Iamnothim---
> 
> Have you received your tubes yet from Lithuania--I know some have who have ordered way after me --(Jan 22nd)??
> 
> ...




I guess my mailman owns a Lyr


----------



## TooPoor

Quote: 





toschek said:


> How are the LCDs? I am dying to try those now, everyone keeps raving about them.


 

  I'll have to get back to you in a bit. I received the Lyr and LCD's on the same day. It was better than christmas morning. Not sure where I stand on 'burn in' debate. but I haven't had a lot of time for mental burn in/analytical listening. I can definitely see what all the hype is about, but then again, is that new purchase bias? New tubes are coming in today and I'll have a lot of time this weekend to play around with rolling.


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I guess my mailman owns a Lyr


 

 So I guess that means No---I have started a case with EBAY --but I would sure like to get them--
   
  Someone ordered them on Feb 7 In the US and already has them!!!
   
  Jack


----------



## gmahler2u

Hey guys...
   
  I have question...Does anyone know about this tube?  Valvo red label, e88cc,6922
  comments about this tube?
   
  Thanks


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hey guys...
> 
> I have question...Does anyone know about this tube?  Valvo red label, e88cc,6922
> comments about this tube?
> ...


 
   
  Do a thread search for (with quotes) "valvo red label". They have been mentioned numerous times already with some very detailed info supplied by the 'Tube Gods' of Head-Fi


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Do a thread search for (with quotes) "valvo red label". They have been mentioned numerous times already with some very detailed info supplied by the 'Tube Gods' of Head-Fi


 

 Gracias!


----------



## NightFlight

Dammit!!! I got out sniped in the last 5 seconds.
   
  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/321073687383?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649


----------



## NightFlight

I haven't see it mentioned... But Schiit put orange LEDs in the amp to enhance the tube glow. At least my brand new one has it. Its neat but... makes it harder to guage the actual glow output of the tube


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I haven't see it mentioned... But Schiit put orange LEDs in the amp to enhance the tube glow. At least my brand new one has it. Its neat but... makes it harder to guage the actual glow output of the tube


 
   
  Maybe cut holes in piece of cardboard and overlay it on top if you're trying to gauge the glow?   I wouldn't leave it there permanently and mess up cooling though.   I bought some damping/cooling rings from the Brent Jesse site http://www.audiotubes.com/damper.htm - perhaps something like that situated on your tubes can help you isolate the tube glow from the LEDs. I haven't received them yet, nor do I buy into the voodoo claims regarding staging and separation enhancements, but I do have some slightly microphonic (but still awesome) tubes that I want to try damping.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Dammit!!! I got out sniped in the last 5 seconds.
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/321073687383?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649


 

 that tube suppose to be good...maybe rare.....crap!!! I should stay away from the blog.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> Iamnothim---
> 
> Have you received your tubes yet from Lithuania--I know some have who have ordered way after me --(Jan 22nd)??
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I guess my mailman owns a Lyr


 
  Sorry guys,  I was hoping the "slow boat" issue was just a fluke due to the holidays in late Jan.  I didn't know it would be the rule vs the exception.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## NightFlight

I emailed Ron at Cyro about the tubes I ordered from there. They were sent first class to Canada and it seems they got to the border real quick. So far as he could tell priority mail gets... priority at customs then they get to first class to fill the time when when not busy. He says it will take 2-6 weeks at customs. *sigh*
   
  Seller isn't responding to my hounding for my OG purchase out of Toronto, which is around the corner from me. Thought it might actually get in the mail, but it all depends on how long the seller takes to actually noticing something sold. *sigh*


----------



## NightFlight

Can anyone confirm the Amperex wiki for me? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amperex_Electronic
   
   
  I'm trying to get my head around some of the tube lore surrounding Amperex and from what I've read elsewhere I'm not getting the same impression from the Wiki entry.


----------



## toschek

Not sure what you mean?  Starting with the Philips acquisition in 1955 it gets confusing as hell to me, but it sounds like they were an OEM for other tube brands ??


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I guess my mailman owns a Lyr


 
  I didn't realize "behind the orange curtain" was actually Dayton, OH ..... we must have the same mailman.   How many of the same tube does he need already?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I didn't realize "behind the orange curtain" was actually Dayton, OH ..... we must have the same mailman.   How many of the same tube does he need already?


 
  Different color curtain


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Not sure what you mean?  Starting with the Philips acquisition in 1955 it gets confusing as hell to me, but it sounds like they were an OEM for other tube brands ??


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Maybe cut holes in piece of cardboard and overlay it on top if you're trying to gauge the glow?   I wouldn't leave it there permanently and mess up cooling though.   I bought some damping/cooling rings from the Brent Jesse site *http://www.audiotubes.com/damper.htm *- perhaps something like that situated on your tubes can help you isolate the tube glow from the LEDs. I haven't received them yet, nor do I buy into the voodoo claims regarding staging and separation enhancements, but I do have some slightly microphonic (but still awesome) tubes that I want to try damping.


 
   
   
  Sorry, but that looks like junk to me.
   
  Type" brass 1" compression ring " into Bing and have a look at the images.


----------



## Iamnothim

All About valve heat:
   
  A single Philips ECC88 valve left on for 30 minutes registers 131 F measured through Fluke thermal couplers to a multimeter.
  The specification for this tube's heater is 6.3V and 365 mA. Power calculation (P=EI) 2.3Watts  (Heater values are constant)
  At a maximum operating voltage of 200V (anode) at 60mA I (anode) the valve produces 12W.
  However,   The normal  operating range of this valve is  90V * 30mA is 2.7W
   
  Thus at normal operating range,  2 valves put out a total of10 W.


----------



## NightFlight

What is that glow? Actually the blue glow is the ridiculous high output blue LED on my HDD left. Do NOT look directly into the light...
   

  Hmm... Seems a bit bright to me.
   

   
  Hey. What is that?

   
  Holy Schiit! Supertubze!
   
  ...
   
   I for one, I'm disappointed that you guys didn't go all the way and tap into the signal path and trigger on the peaks.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

nightflight said:


> I haven't see it mentioned... But Schiit put orange LEDs in the amp to enhance the tube glow. At least my brand new one has it. Its neat but... makes it harder to guage the actual glow output of the tube




I was reading the mjolnir(also has the orange lights) manual the other night and it said the orange lights are put there as a visual way to measure voltage to the channels. So if one is visually dimmer than the other, there might not be enough juice getting to one channel. Also they make the tubes look extra sweet, which is a plus.

If your having trouble deciphering the tube glow and the orange light below the socket savers will help

Nice pics! Btw


----------



## toschek

My Lorenz PCC88's came today, it sure takes a long time to swim here from Lithuania 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  They are pretty good so far, going to roll with these a few days and give my $$ ones a vacation.
   
  Staging is open, pretty lush sounding.   I like it, may have to buy another set.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





toschek said:


> My Lorenz PCC88's came today, it sure takes a long time to swim here from Lithuania
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 WWOW...I still long time to wait..


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I was reading the mjolnir(also has the orange lights) manual the other night and it said the orange lights are put there as a visual way to measure voltage to the channels. So if one is visually dimmer than the other, there might not be enough juice getting to one channel. Also they make the tubes look extra sweet, which is a plus.
> 
> If your having trouble deciphering the tube glow and the orange light below the socket savers will help
> 
> Nice pics! Btw


 
   
  Ok, at least their functional. I mean I thought it was a bit funny to add tube glow for pure aesthetics.


----------



## bareyb

I'm seriously considering buying a Lyr (going back and forth against a Music Hall 25.2 Amp). Are these suitable to be left "On" all the time or is that not done on a Tube amp? How long do the tubes last?


----------



## Iamnothim

bareyb said:


> I'm seriously considering buying a Lyr (going back and forth against a Music Hall 25.2 Amp). Are these suitable to be left "On" all the time or is that not done on a Tube amp? How long do the tubes last?




About 10,000 hours. But with vintage valves it could be 2,500. 
I would turn it off.
EDIT: Valve life..... you just don't know. And that's the beauty !


----------



## bareyb

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> About 10,000 hours. But with vintage valves it could be 2,500.
> I would turn it off.
> EDIT: Valve life..... you just don't know. And that's the beauty !


 
  Thanks. I'm rethinking my setup and I don't think it will have to remain "On"...


----------



## toschek

Second day with the Lorenz PCC88s and I really love these tubes. For what they cost these are a real steal, and I am definitely getting a backup set now.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Second day with the Lorenz PCC88s and I really love these tubes. For what they cost these are a real steal, and I am definitely getting a backup set now.


 
  U R Killing me


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bareyb said:


> Thanks. I'm rethinking my setup and I don't think it will have to remain "On"...


 
  Think of all the cash you get to spend.
   
  Tube extenders
  Tube dampeners
  A nice A/C power conditioner.
  Amprex 65' Orange Globes
  Amprex USN-CEP
  Lorenz E188CC
  Siemans/Haske 3 mica
  Mullard CV2493's
  Telefunken CCa's
  58' Pinched Waist "D" getters.
   
  ......................
  ..............


----------



## toschek

For some reason my wife supports my glass habit, even though it's more expensive than crack.   Go figure.


----------



## bareyb

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Think of all the cash you get to spend.
> 
> Tube extenders
> Tube dampeners
> ...


 
  I ended up going with something else... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  For the environment this amp will be in, the Lyr just wasn't going to be practical. It's going to stay out in a dusty workshop, and get moved frequently from there to my Garage and various other locations. I really wanted to go with a Tube Amp but I needed something more bang proof.
   
  I ended up finding a nice compromise in the Music Hall PH25.2. It's got the Tube Sound, but it uses smaller tubes that are fully enclosed. You may have seen them around. I got to hear one yesterday and it's got a really nice warm tubey sound. Smooth extended highs and deep punchy Bass. I'd still have loved to get a Lyr for a little more money, but I know I'd end up regretting it when somebody knocked it on the floor. The Music Hall on the other hand, is built like a tank. Not the lovliest creature at the Ball, but good looking in a British sort of practical way.


----------



## gmahler2u

for siemens which one is 3 mica.  is it CCa or E88?
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Think of all the cash you get to spend.
> 
> Tube extenders
> Tube dampeners
> ...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





bareyb said:


> I ended up going with something else...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  OK, OK.  A Solid State guy.... move along


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> for siemens which one is 3 mica.  is it CCa or E88?


 
  can't afford them so I don't know.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> OK, OK.  A Solid State guy.... move along


 
   
  Hey now, the Lyr is also a hybrid design...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Hey now, the Lyr is also a hybrid design...


 
  Hey, that's right.
  OK, you can come back.


----------



## Iamnothim

I asked this on another thread ...
  Anybody have any experience with Audioengine A2's  there very small desktop speakers.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Second day with the Lorenz PCC88s and I really love these tubes. For what they cost these are a real steal, and I am definitely getting a backup set now.


 
  Thought you guys might like them...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Thought you guys might like them...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Give them at least 20 hours to burn in though - Then they open up. Really quite pleased with them.
   
  However... Still the benchmark (for me and my tastes and my setup) are the Siemens CCa's. I have some Miniwatt PQ's coming soon and RTC E188CCs.  My Lyr has been running almost constantly for a two weeks now between burn in an listening time.


----------



## toschek

I must say they sounded good right out of the box, can't wait for the break-in. I bought a second pair today, I think they are almost as good as JAN-CEPs at this point based on swapping. Very happy with these guys, worth the wait.


----------



## Slowfade

iamnothim said:


> Got them here:  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm
> 
> They remind me of my childhood....





Lost In Space!!!!


----------



## Slowfade

toschek said:


> I sure am digging the new MBV through this piece of schiit.




Ya. I really like the new album. I was prepared to hate it... but it pretty much rocks....


----------



## Slowfade

jackiedh said:


> Iamnothim---
> 
> Have you received your tubes yet from Lithuania--I know some have who have ordered way after me --(Jan 22nd)??
> 
> ...




Ordered Feb 7 and received a few days ago.


----------



## Slowfade

hk_sends said:


> Sorry guys,  I was hoping the "slow boat" issue was just a fluke due to the holidays in late Jan.  I didn't know it would be the rule vs the exception.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...




Got mine a few days ago...safe and sound. Just takes a while.


----------



## toschek

Since you have them too, what's your take vs. the other tubes in you library? I like these about as much as I like my two sets of JAN Amperex ('65 JAN-CEP 6922 and '66 JAN-CEP 7308) but the sound stage and treble isn't as good as my Telefunken ECC88s (then again, the bass is a little better on these). Haven't had time to compare against the Brimars though.


----------



## Iamnothim

Since I'm the Only One that didn't get mine I'm cook'in some traffic Dr Mr fantasy with some 60' D's.

Know what? Pretty damn good...... Think'n Jimmi is next


----------



## Slowfade

toschek said:


> Since you have them too, what's your take vs. the other tubes in you library? I like these about as much as I like my two sets of JAN Amperex ('65 JAN-CEP 6922 and '66 JAN-CEP 7308) but the sound stage and treble isn't as good as my Telefunken ECC88s (then again, the bass is a little better on these). Haven't had time to compare against the Brimars though.




Good question..... Give me a couple days and I'll let you know. I just installed them tonight. Not really listened to much on these seriously yet. My schedule has been packed and not have had a lot of free time to swap these in. I've been listening to a pair of Matsu****a's ( http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=591 ) and actually like them a lot, but I'm thinking these might be a step up. We shall see.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Second day with the Lorenz PCC88s and I really love these tubes. For what they cost these are a real steal, and I am definitely getting a backup set now.


 
  I ordered a set of 4.   If they ever get here, I'll sell you two .......


----------



## eddiek997

At $10 (at time of posting) These are a steal http://www.ebay.com/itm/321075572273?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
   
  Brent Jesse is the seller too so you know they're genuine and not chinese fakes.


----------



## nelamvr6

I'm not sure how I did it, but i just finished reading this ENTIRE thread!  
   
  My Lyr has shipped, it will arrive sometime this week.  I'm also expecting way too many pairs of way too expensive tubes.
   
  Unfortunately, I won't make it home until early March.
   
  So I have this tube rolling affliction waiting for me at home, and it's on the fast track!


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Since I'm the Olny One that didn't get mine I'm cook'in some traffic Dr Mr fantasy with some 60' D's.
> 
> Know what? Pretty damn good...... Think'n Jimmi is next


 

 Don't feel like the Lone Ranger--Ordered Jan 22 and I still haven't got them and I ordered 2 Pair!!!
   
  And I am in Northern California Too Boot...
   
  Jack


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I'm not sure how I did it, but i just finished reading this ENTIRE thread!
> 
> My Lyr has shipped, it will arrive sometime this week.  I'm also expecting way too many pairs of way too expensive tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  I am very sorry you had to suffer through my posts.
  Please don't read "Schiit Owners Unite", as it will be iamnothim II, a very bad sequel.


----------



## nelamvr6

Ooooh!  There's another Schiit thread?
   
  I've got the sickness so bad I've even ordered socket savers and some of Herbie's space robot dampeners!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Ooooh!  There's another Schiit thread?
> 
> I've got the sickness so bad I've even ordered socket savers and some of Herbie's space robot dampeners!


 
  I embarrass myself early and often


----------



## Sniperbombers

question: i was tube rolling with JJ e88cc tubes, but after i plug them in, they give my hd650's a really really loud obnoxious buzz coming from the right ear cup / channel. How should i go about this problem?

 - everything was properly plugged in might i add as i double checked, i wasn't sure if the tubes were damaged. Other tubes ive tried still works


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> question: i was tube rolling with JJ e88cc tubes, but after i plug them in, they give my hd650's a really really loud obnoxious buzz coming from the right ear cup / channel. How should i go about this problem?
> 
> - everything was properly plugged in might i add as i double checked, i wasn't sure if the tubes were damaged. Others that i've tried failed to work


 
  1st flip the tube positions see if it moves to the left.
   
  EDIT:  Just saw the part about others failed to work.  Contact Schiit


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> 1st flip the tube positions see if it moves to the left.
> 
> EDIT:  Just saw the part about others failed to work.  Contact Schiit


 
  sorry i worded the last sentence wrong. 

 I flipped the tubes over and also contacted Schiit Audio about the case, sadly the flipping positions part did not work.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Think of all the cash you get to spend.
> 
> Tube extenders
> Tube dampeners
> ...


 
  The Amperex '65s OGs. How different would the 67's be? I only asked becuase I've got a couple pairs on their way.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> The Amperex '65s OGs. How different would the 67's be? I only asked becuase I've got a couple pairs on their way.


 
  I own a bunch of Philips valves.
  USN-CEP's are 1965 (6922)
  I have 2 sets of OG's
  69' dimple getters
  67' small "O" getters (yours)
  I also have 1960 "D" getters and 
  My1965 La Radiotechniques.  Are Big "O" getter, gold pin E188CC's and were made in the Philips plant in Heerlen Holland, not France.
  Another set of E188CC gold pins are on the way.  They are "RTC" labeled but made by Mullard in the UK.
   
  The 67's are very good.  But I also enjoy the 69's
  You will be pleased.
   
  There are a couple build differences over the years.
  Later in the sixties the design went to  "Dimple" getters.  (A disc with bumps) and an "A" frame rather than a single post.
  But there are exceptions.  My 67' and 69' are a single post.
   
  If you'd like to learn more about valves here is a link to a Dropbox with some good documents.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/moq4g2gjnfeysps/rI_SEEqiG2
   
  EDIT:  I have some valves not made by Philips from the 70's   Something changed they just don't have the musicality of late 50's to mid 60's
  Hence, I stick with the 60's


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I own a bunch of Philips valves.
> USN-CEP's are 1965 (6922)
> I have 2 sets of OG's
> 69' dimple getters
> ...


 
  Can you let me borrow that La Radio tube?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Can you let me borrow that La Radio tube?


 
  They are presently on tour...  I miss them.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> They are presently on tour...  I miss them.


 

 WOW,,,everybody piece of that la Radio tube?  cool....
  question, If i get the socket saver, Do I need to get one or two for my lyr?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> WOW,,,everybody piece of that la Radio tube?  cool....
> question, If i get the socket saver, Do I need to get one or two for my lyr?
> 
> Thanks


 
  a duce


----------



## ilikepooters

Anyone know any UK sites that sell lots of tubes? ebay looks a bit sparce apart from foreign sellers.
   
  Seems like all the good old british Mullard tubes have grown legs and walked abroad, can't seem to find any in this country


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Anyone know any UK sites that sell lots of tubes? ebay looks a bit sparce apart from foreign sellers.
> 
> Seems like all the good old british Mullard tubes have grown legs and walked abroad, can't seem to find any in this country


 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/310353960765?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  STORE:  http://stores.ebay.com/LANGREX?_trksid=p2047675.l2563


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310353960765?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> STORE:  http://stores.ebay.com/LANGREX?_trksid=p2047675.l2563


 
   
  Many thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Does it matter that they're not matched? I've been looking for matched pairs but no idea if it's absolutely necessary.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Many thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
*Retraction:*
*The information in this post is inaccurate as the listing on eBay was incorrect.  The tubes/valves in the eBay listing are from the 70's / 80's.   The eBay vendor has been notified  I believe I made a post with similar information.  I hope that this has not had any adverse effects..*
   
  Matched is a very good idea....
  I took it on faith as they have a large quantity of these valves and they are a regular valve seller.
  They should know to match.
  One of the other members posted that they were a reputable seller.
   
  They goods look perfect.
   
  The E188CC is a very good valve.  I have a set made in Heerlen Holland that I love so much, I wanted a backup pair.
  I think these are a fair price for 1960 vintage.
   
  The ad states a "R0D1"
  R = Mitcham UK plant, "0" is 1960 "D" is April "1" is the first week
   
  VR1 is the valve type.  E188CC
   
   
  BTW.  You don't need "balanced" with a Lyr.


----------



## Iamnothim

The question is frequently asked here "How long do tubes last?"
   
  In reading tube/valve specifications for the Telefunken E88CC / 6922 / CCa
  it specifically states:  "We guarantee 10,000 hours of operation, averaged over 100 tubes.
   
  At the bottom of the sheet it specifies compliance with USN MIL Spec  This valve type is known for reliability and tight tolerances.
  So there it is, straight from Telefunken.
  It's a multipage doc.  I only attached page 1


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Many thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  If you are just starting out, these might be a nice little deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-PHILIPS-NOS-/260746635558?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3cb5b5e926


----------



## gmahler2u

How do you install socket saver?  sorry for the noobie questions...


----------



## Slowfade

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Since you have them too, what's your take vs. the other tubes in you library? I like these about as much as I like my two sets of JAN Amperex ('65 JAN-CEP 6922 and '66 JAN-CEP 7308) but the sound stage and treble isn't as good as my Telefunken ECC88s (then again, the bass is a little better on these). Haven't had time to compare against the Brimars though.


 
   
  Ok, so admittedly with only a few hours of listening, I have some thoughts.  These Lorenz SEL's are pretty sweet. I think the bass is more controlled, slightly deeper (I think?) and consistant across the range than with the Matsu****a's. The mids seem a bit more present. Instrument separation seems better with more body and sense of space to each instrument. There seems to be a tad more sparkle (I was going to say sizzle, but I dont want to give the wrong impression) to the top end for good and bad.  Seems to add a clarity to the sound. Soundstage seems about the same, though the music seems a bit more open and airy.  
  I think they are keepers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks to whoever first pointed these out the other week.... Sorry I can't remember at this point. Hopefully you know who you are.
   
  Maybe I'll give an update after a few weeks....


----------



## Slowfade

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> How do you install socket saver?  sorry for the noobie questions...


 
   
  They just plug in like a tube, then the tube plugs into it. They just go in between the tube and the socket on the amps motherboard.
   
  A pic from http://www.tubemonger.com/


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> How do you install socket saver?  sorry for the noobie questions...


 
  Add:
   
  Always, always, always unplug all cords, power and inputs.
  Take the device to a work surface where you have room to work.
  Follow this procedure each time you roll tubes.
  Think surgery.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> They are presently on tour...  I miss them.


 
  Heh, one more stop then home? Mine are on the road as well.....


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Matched is a very good idea....
> I took it on faith as they have a large quantity of these valves and they are a regular valve seller.
> They should know to match.
> One of the other members posted that they were a reputable seller.
> ...


 
   
   
  Jason said that the Lyr uses both triodes in each tube, wouldn't balancing be a good idea?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Jason said that the Lyr uses both triodes in each tube, wouldn't balancing be a good idea?


 
  The question was posed to Jason before, and as I recall, that's why you don't need balanced.  But then that doesn't make sense because if you have 110/120 and a 105/115 the average would be 107/117.
   
  I am certain that balanced triodes are not required, but I can't tell you why.
  Hey, wait a minute !  You're the dude that read the whole thread......  You tell me.
   
  EDIT:  Thought about this further. The test values, in this case using a scale where 120 = 100% good NOS, are a measure of how strong a valve is.  As such I don't think that parameter matters.   Hello, calling Alaska.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> The question was posed to Jason before, and as I recall, that's why you don't need balanced.  But then that doesn't make sense because if you have 110/120 and a 105/115 the average would be 107/117.
> 
> I am certain that balanced triodes are not required, but I can't tell you why.
> Hey, wait a minute !  You're the dude that read the whole thread......  You tell me.
> ...


 
   
  Now that's twice I see that reference.... Anyone ever answer?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Now that's twice I see that reference.... Anyone ever answer?


 
  Every now and then he awakens from hibernation.


----------



## HK_sends

Speaking of awakening, I just got an e-mail from the guys at TubeMonger that says they need to correct information given in a previous post.  Here you are:
   
  "Post post #5515 of 5524 needs correction.
  
 This must be an oversight by our friends at Langrex. We will inform them of the error. These specific RTC E188CC tubes are not from 1960 or even 1960s. There were no dimple disk getter Mullard E188CC tubes from early to late 1960s. 
 




 
 It will be safer to call these 1970s-early 1980s production. Date/Revision codes suggest that these could either be from 1970-1972 or 1980-1982 Mitcham production. 
 
  Revision/date on these is VRI Rxxx (not VR1). Revision on most early to late 1960s Mullard E188CC/CV4108 should be dYx Rxxx.

  
 http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Mullard+E188CC+7308+-+1970s+Gold+Pin+RTC+French+Label+-+Mitcham+Plant+Gt_+Britain.jpg.html
  
 Here is an example from early 1970s - http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Mullard+CV4108+1972+Dimple+Disc+Getter+Chelmer+Boxed+2+-+Mitcham+Gt_+Britain.jpg.html
  
1960s Examples:
 http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Mullard+CV4108+1960s+Halo+Getter+Front+-+Mitcham+GT_+Britain.jpg.html
   
http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Mullard+CV4108+1960s+Halo+Getter+1+-+Mitcham+GT_+Britain.jpg.html
   
http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Mullard+CV4110+1967+Halo+Getter+-+Mitcham+GT_+Britain.jpg.html
   
http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Mullard+CV4109+-+Early+MULLARD+PROTOTYPE+MINT+NOS+1961+Wrinkle+Glass+Premium+Grade+Long+Life+E188CC+CV4108+7308+Halo+Getter+.jpg.html
   
http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Mullard+CV4109+-+1964+Wrinkle+Glass+Old+Shield+Logo+Premium+Grade+Long+Life+E188CC+CV4108+7308+Halo+Getter_001.jpg.html
   
http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Mullard+CV4109+-+1966+Premium+Grade+Long+Life+E188CC+CV4108+7308+Halo+Getter+-+Military+YB+KB-D.jpg.html
   
http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Mullard+CV4109+-+1967+Premium+Grade+Long+Life+E188CC+CV4108+7308+Halo+Getter.jpg.html
   
  Langrex  is a trusted seller and they stand behind their product. Buy with confidence. Unless they have started doing it now, Langrex does not match or screen tubes. They will however give you an exchange for any issues.
   
  Regardless of the fact that these RTC/Mullard E188CC tubes are from 1970s-80s, NOS/NIB Mullard E188CC is a bargain at that price. NOS/NIB Dimple Disk Getter Mullard E188CC used to sell for $300+/pair. This temporary dip in prices is due to a large number of these coming in the market from a single Military auction. 
   
  Tubemonger

www.tubemonger.com"
   
  That's my good deed for the day.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Speaking of awakening, I just got an e-mail from the guys at TubeMonger that says they need to correct information given in a previous post.  Here you are:
> 
> "Post post #5515 of 5524 needs correction.
> 
> ...


 
  They looked too clean.
   
  Not happy  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  EDIT.  I should have know... anytime there is a lack of photos.... you can't tell what you are buying.
  EDIT2.....  Look at the ink dummy !!!  I will retreat to a very deep cave.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> They looked too clean.
> 
> Not happy


 
  I missed the reference...
  The tube was too clean?
   
  -HK sends


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I missed the reference...
> The tube was too clean?
> 
> -HK sends


 
  Perhaps they were missing a decade of corrosion.


----------



## HK_sends

Sorry, I don't usually equate clean tubes with age.  I've seen some immaculate old tubes from the 50s and 60s and seen some tubes from the 70s and 80s that look like they were stored in a cardboard box _outside_ the shed...
  I guess it's all how they are stored and treated.
   
  Just my penny and a half.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - But my question and comment wasn't meant as any slight to Iamnothim.  He's right to not be happy.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> The question was posed to Jason before, and as I recall, that's why you don't need balanced.  But then that doesn't make sense because if you have 110/120 and a 105/115 the average would be 107/117.
> 
> I am certain that balanced triodes are not required, but I can't tell you why.
> Hey, wait a minute !  You're the dude that read the whole thread......  You tell me.
> ...


 
   
  Balancing didn't really come up a lot in this thread...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Balancing didn't really come up a lot in this thread...


 
  That's probably because a lot of us older farts didn't think to ask if the Lyr was using both triodes in the tubes.  I, at least, thought it was only using one triode in each tube so I was only concerned with tubes matching.  That's why you'll hear tons of talk on the "Triode Flippers" from Tubemonger in the posts preceeding Jason's clarification that the Lyr uses both triodes in each tube.  That's why balancing (as well as matching) has become the subject of conversation recently.
   
  Cheers from an Old Fart!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> That's probably because a lot of us older farts didn't think to ask if the Lyr was using both triodes in the tubes.  I, at least, thought it was only using one triode in each tube so I was only concerned with tubes matching.  That's why you'll hear tons of talk on the "Triode Flippers" from Tubemonger in the posts preceeding Jason's clarification that the Lyr uses both triodes in each tube.  That's why balancing (as well as matching) has become the subject of conversation recently.
> 
> Cheers from an Old Fart!
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe I'm mistaken (my usual M.O as it happens) but my understanding was that Jason stated that the Lyr was single ended triode and specifically mentioned that triode flipping was not necessary. Not sure he mentioned balancing specifically but that would be a moot point if it's single ended.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Maybe I'm mistaken (my usual M.O as it happens) but my understanding was that Jason stated that the Lyr was single ended triode and specifically mentioned that triode flipping was not necessary. Not sure he mentioned balancing specifically but that would be a moot point if it's single ended.


 
  You probably aren't mistaken.  I'm not as up on amplifier topologies as I should be.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
_"I'm old, I can talk as long as I want!"_


----------



## Sniperbombers

Please correct me if i'm wrong as i may be giving the wrong impressions and suffer of some audio disorder 

 Testing / Tested w/ Schiit lyr and bi-frost w/ AKG Q701's only 

 JJ E88CC tubes - before they went crazy
 very good sound-stage
 adds a little more warmth on the AKG Q701's
 Very frontal on vocals, with 's sounds being very natural? p's also
 adds some very crisp highs
 great extensions on the low end - nice and smooth
 -- maybe increase separation? which led to a greater soundstage

 NL Matsu****a 6922/E88CC

 Low end very tight and accurate
 feels like theres a little emphasis on the high end ( but maybe because i might be lacking a burn-in)
 seems only slightly quicker but still nice and tight on every note?
  

 Hope you guys felt somewhat the same way with these 2 tubes. ( i'm totally going to embarrass myself here. I just know it.)
 still have the GE 6B27 and some NOS 6N1P tubes (russian) <- whatever company these may be, hopefully someone out there knows.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> Please correct me if i'm wrong as i may be giving the wrong impressions and suffer of some audio disorder
> 
> Testing / Tested w/ Schiit lyr and bi-frost w/ AKG Q701's only
> 
> ...


 
  I can't speak for the JJ's but the assessment of the Matsu's tracks pretty well with mine.  The highs will smooth out after a bit o' burn-in.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

Anyone else find the stock tubes a bit bright? getting a lot of sibilance on mine, only had it a few days though, not much burn in.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Anyone else find the stock tubes a bit bright? getting a lot of sibilance on mine, only had it a few days though, not much burn in.


 
  I have heard that newer tubes like JJ's and Gold Lions need a good bit o' burn-in to settle down.  I never held on to any long enough to see if was true.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Sorry, I don't usually equate clean tubes with age.  I've seen some immaculate old tubes from the 50s and 60s and seen some tubes from the 70s and 80s that look like they were stored in a cardboard box _outside_ the shed...
> I guess it's all how they are stored and treated.
> 
> Just my penny and a half.
> ...


 
   
  I think the high voltage may corrode the pins after enough usage. Buying used NOS, its fine so long inside the tube looks okay.  After having my brother look at some bids I had going on ebay, he suggested I use small amount of 1000 or higher grit sandpaper on each pin and then clean with alcohol to ensure good solid mating with the socket.
   
  I'm starting to think that if I'm going to roll a lot to find what I like, then I'm going to have to get some socket savers until I settle down. Getting the first pair out of the Lyr was a bitch with even my small fingers. Rocked a bit much on the first one and one of the pins got a bit of a curve to it.  Oh well. Best to learn with cheapies


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have heard that newer tubes like JJ's and Gold Lions need a good bit o' burn-in to settle down.  I never held on to any long enough to see if was true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Burning in is all I seem to be doing lately. Everything is new new new.
   
  The 6N23P Cryo's I got hit 30hrs this morning. So I sat listen and while browsing came across this: "Audio Stax - Die Raumklang".
  Stax used electrostatic microphones to capture some really good binaural space.
   
   
  I was just settling into the presented room, listening Sabina (front left) explain the room layout while Micheal (rear right) softly plays guitar. I'm really relaxed.  Then in walks this guy Gunther (door right). He walks about here and there talking and Sabina translating and keeping up the monologue.  Then he starts getting into my space.  Getting in within 30cm or as described. He talks behind me, in front of me. On top... continues on. I'm starting to reel and trying not to get out of my chair. Then he leans right in and whispers something German right in my ear. Well, I literally screamed and ripped off the HD800s!  I ran and hid in the corner for a minute to shake off the most awful sense of invasion of personal space. *shiver*
   
  I couldn't stop laughing. 
   
  So anyhow, I think the detail is coming along nicely.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I think the high voltage may corrode the pins after enough usage. Buying used NOS, its fine so long inside the tube looks okay.  After having my brother look at some bids I had going on ebay, he suggested I use small amount of 1000 or higher grit sandpaper on each pin and then clean with alcohol to ensure good solid mating with the socket.
> 
> I'm starting to think that if I'm going to roll a lot to find what I like, then I'm going to have to get some socket savers until I settle down. Getting the first pair out of the Lyr was a bitch with even my small fingers. Rocked a bit much on the first one and one of the pins got a bit of a curve to it.  Oh well. Best to learn with cheapies


 
   
 I have these little Zirconia Alumina file sticks. They work great on Non-Gold pins.
 Don't let the 320 grit size scare you.  The grit is like powder.  Either Extra-Fine or Polish works great.
 Do not use liquids !  IMO that includes DeOxIt.
  
 Description:
 Designed for cleaning contacts and relays, these files can be bent and twisted into hard-to-reach spots. They're made of zirconia alumina grain pressed into a flexible core and can be used with all types of metal and plastic. Files are nonchipping and nonconductive
  
 http://www.mcmaster.com/#electrical-contact-abrasive-cleaners/=lnvtpb
  
 If you like, I'll send you one.


----------



## Iamnothim

OK, I'm sure I can google this..... what is/are Cryo's  A Cryogenic process I assume.
  I've seen it on HP custom cables.  But never for valves.
   
  YET, I've read post where guys talk about cryo tubes.
   
  Please edjamakate me.


----------



## jackiedh

Iamnothim
  Have you received your tubes from Lithuania yet??
   
  Jack


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> OK, I'm sure I can google this..... what is/are Cryo's  A Cryogenic process I assume.
> I've seen it on HP custom cables.  But never for valves.
> 
> YET, I've read post where guys talk about cryo tubes.
> ...


 
   
  Here's the set I bought. I got the link from this thread no less. The description of the process is on every page in case you have doubt.   I can't compare them to an untreated pair *shug*. But they seem to be working out well enough.
   
  http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=243&osCsid=e4m0cjj2bnkg77k74htqu0s6g7


----------



## HK_sends

Although some people say it is bogus, others swear by it.  Here's a site that talks about cryoed tubes (and sells them too...).
   
http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/index.php
   
  I'm neither one way or the other about them.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> Iamnothim
> Have you received your tubes from Lithuania yet??
> 
> Jack


 
  next question...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Although some people say it is bogus, others swear by it.  Here's a site that talks about cryoed tubes (and sells them too...).
> 
> http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/index.php
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Heck,
  
 I had never seen cryo mentioned in any tube listing I've read.
  
 UPDATE:  1980's E188CC  "RTC"
 Langrex (the vendor) has offered to refund the purchase price plus round trip shipping.
 They were very apologetic.  A stand up reseller.
  
 I passed on these valves to buy the RTC's because I thought they were 1960.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/330876855394?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
  
 These too are dimple getter.  But they are 1972 (according to the ad.  I can't see the codes) Mithcam, E188CC
 with deep hats.  NOS and the boxes.   $120 USD.
  
 Here I go opening my big-ass-key-clicking….Again.
  
 This may be a steel considering Tubemonger wants $300 for essentially the same valve.
 Further justification can be had from an $80 price for used mid 60's OG's.  Not gold pin.
  
 Further,  I posted the spec a few pages back for the E188CC.  They are guaranteed 10,000 hours of life average foe a 100 valve lot.
 The E188CC is spec'd for interment mfg.'s and the military.  Hence the guarantee.
  
 So a 10,000 hour, Mullard gold pin "tube" for a pair $120…
  There are 8 pairs left.
 What do you think?


----------



## eddiek997

I had these in my watch list for a while now but it appears that they are sold. Auction ended.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> I had these in my watch list for a while now but it appears that they are sold. Auction ended.


 
  Mine says 9 available
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-E188CC-7308-NOS-Valves-Tubes-E88CC-6922-CV2492-/330878210340?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item4d09e0d124
   
  UNLESS...  like the RTC's from Langrex.....  They are 1982.


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> next question...


 

 Just checking--I just got EBAY to refund my money--Totally tired of waiting!!!!
   
  Jack


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> OK, I'm sure I can google this..... what is/are Cryo's  A Cryogenic process I assume.
> I've seen it on HP custom cables.  But never for valves.
> 
> YET, I've read post where guys talk about cryo tubes.
> ...


 
  The RTCs I sent to you were Cryos. I am not sure where I got this, but I had it saved on word to show a friend after he called me Han Solo:
   
   
*[size=small]Cryogenic treatment is a process where a product (VACUUM TUBES)is tempered in a deep freeze process(-300F) for 48 hrs. This process produces a permanent change in the metals inside this product making it stronger and longer lasting. Tools, instruments, knives, razor blades, machinery parts have been Cryo Treated for many years.Why do this to tubes?Tubes are mostly metal inside so Cryo treating tubes has the following benefits: permanent change in the metals at the molecular level(more uniform grain structure of metals), longer lasting, tightens internal parts of the tube allowing for more efficient operation. and superior conductivity![/size]*


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> The RTCs I sent to you were Cryos. I am not sure where I got this, but I had it saved on word to show a friend after he called me Han Solo:
> 
> 
> *[size=small]Cryogenic treatment is a process where a product (VACUUM TUBES)is tempered in a deep freeze process(-300F) for 48 hrs. This process produces a permanent change in the metals inside this product making it stronger and longer lasting. Tools, instruments, knives, razor blades, machinery parts have been Cryo Treated for many years.Why do this to tubes?Tubes are mostly metal inside so Cryo treating tubes has the following benefits: permanent change in the metals at the molecular level(more uniform grain structure of metals), longer lasting, tightens internal parts of the tube allowing for more efficient operation. and superior conductivity![/size]*


 
  Do they add an olive?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> Just checking--I just got EBAY to refund my money--Totally tired of waiting!!!!
> 
> Jack


 
  I'm on the fence.
  I'll give them until Friday.


----------



## rdaneel

Hi folks - I finally broke down and have a nicely modded Lyr on the way.  This will be my first tube gear in years - I used to have an Onix tube amp for my monitors, and want to give a tube headamp a shot.
   
  I don't know that I'll do a ton of rolling, but am thinking that some tube savers would also lift the tubes a bit out of the Lyr's casing, which would be nice - might as well see them, right?  Any particular savers that you guys like?  It sounds like the Triode Flipper ones from Tubemonger aren't necessary.  Is there a less expensive, but decent quality, option?
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





slowfade said:


> They just plug in like a tube, then the tube plugs into it. They just go in between the tube and the socket on the amps motherboard.
> 
> A pic from http://www.tubemonger.com/


 
   
  By the way, I would highly recommend you remove the plastic labels and clean off the glue before installing these. The gummy stuff holding them on tends to soften/melt with use and if you remove a tube when still warm the melted glue can gunk up the tube socket.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





rdaneel said:


> Hi folks - I finally broke down and have a nicely modded Lyr on the way.  This will be my first tube gear in years - I used to have an Onix tube amp for my monitors, and want to give a tube headamp a shot.
> 
> I don't know that I'll do a ton of rolling, but am thinking that some tube savers would also lift the tubes a bit out of the Lyr's casing, which would be nice - might as well see them, right?  Any particular savers that you guys like?  It sounds like the Triode Flipper ones from Tubemonger aren't necessary.  Is there a less expensive, but decent quality, option?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 
  Hello and welcome.
   
  I've had the inexpensive $10 each extenders
http://audiotubes.com/books.htm
   
  Now I have Tubemongers (non-flipping) extenders.  It's a much better product.  The contacts are better and, my extenders at least, stay in the Lyr when I'm changing tubes.
   
  May I ask, what is a "nicely modded" Lyr?
  I am unaware of any modification to the Lyr and what the benefit is.
  I can't imagine changing anything inside that would be worth voiding the 5 year warranty.


----------



## rdaneel

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> May I ask, what is a "nicely modded" Lyr?


 
   
  Thanks for the welcome and the advice on the socket savers!  As for the mods, Empirical Audio got a Lyr to use for a demo, modded it before use,  then sold it off.  The mods were to replace stock parts with some upgraded equivalents.  I obviously can't speak to the results until I hear the amp, but Empirical has a great reputation for their mod work, so I thought it was worth giving up the warranty.
   
  The mods include:
   
 1) swap in 4 high-voltage PentaCap teflon signal coupling caps to replace the stock Wima Polypropylene caps
 2) swap in high-voltage Black-Gate electrolytic cap for plate voltage
 3) addition of a couple Panasonic low-ESR series electrolytics to replace inexpensive caps for low-voltage decoupling
 4) addition of high-voltage HF decoupling cap for plate voltage
 5) addition of 4 low-voltage HF decoupling caps


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





rdaneel said:


> Thanks for the welcome and the advice on the socket savers!  As for the mods, Empirical Audio got a Lyr to use for a demo, modded it before use,  then sold it off.  The mods were to replace stock parts with some upgraded equivalents.  I obviously can't speak to the results until I hear the amp, but Empirical has a great reputation for their mod work, so I thought it was worth giving up the warranty.
> 
> The mods include:
> 
> ...


 
  Interesting.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





rdaneel said:


> This will be my first tube gear in years - I used to have an *Onix tube amp* for my monitors, and want to give a tube headamp a shot.


 
  This one?
   

   

  I have this amp and love it..... About to sell though, I just got offered a Conrad Johnson setup.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> By the way, I would highly recommend you remove the plastic labels and clean off the glue before installing these. The gummy stuff holding them on tends to soften/melt with use and if you remove a tube when still warm the melted glue can gunk up the tube socket.


 
  can anyone else agree with this statement? Now i'm a little scared since even i don't know how i'll be pulling these socket savers out.


----------



## toschek

Brimar CV2492s came in today's mail.  This is my first set of British made tubes, quite a bit different to what I am used to.   These are really warm, smooth and expansive.   Vocals are amazing through them.  Might be the best I've heard yet.   It bums me out that they are so hard to find 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






EDIT: Yep, these are it. Just unbelievably perfect tube in every possible way, mids, treble, punchy bass, dynamics, detail, staging ... hits every mark. I love this tube!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> can anyone else agree with this statement? Now i'm a little scared since even i don't know how i'll be pulling these socket savers out.


 
  I never had any problems with the glue or labels and I have used mine in the Lyr for hundreds of hours.  Usually, when you remove the tubes (even warm), you are pulling on the tube, not the socket saver.  I haven't had any issues the other poster described and I haven't seen anybody else mention it.  Not to say the other poster is wrong...that may be the experience he had with the socket savers.
   
  Consider this for removing the tubes: http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362024593&sr=8-1&keywords=tube+glove
  I've used one for two years with no trouble.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## rdaneel

Eddie, yes that was the one. I liked the thing, but hated the black of remote volume control. Then i went with a digital room correcting integrated and the UNIX had to find another home... Good luck with your Conrad Johnson setup, should be awesome!


----------



## Iamnothim

Tube extender goo.
   
  Thermocoupler around a valve for 30 minutes.
  131.0 deg F.
  minus
  98.6 
  delta
  32.4 deg F.
  So the opposite of picking up an ice cube.
  I just can't see the glue melting.  The product is very well made.
  Note:  The valve in this test was extended outside the Lyr enclosure.
  You would have to add the ambient temp inside the case.  (I'm not going to do that)


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I never had any problems with the glue or labels and I have used mine in the Lyr for hundreds of hours.  Usually, when you remove the tubes (even warm), you are pulling on the tube, not the socket saver.  I haven't had any issues the other poster described and I haven't seen anybody else mention it.  Not to say the other poster is wrong...that may be the experience he had with the socket savers.
> 
> Consider this for removing the tubes: http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362024593&sr=8-1&keywords=tube+glove
> I've used one for two years with no trouble.
> ...


 
  Yeah i've encountered some one posting this link a couple of pages back, sadly i can't get one of these due to being outside of the U.S. This was pretty much my reason on buying socket savers from tubemonger.
 --- I just know i'll be struggling for a really long time trying to take them out. 

 Anyways, hopefully i'll be able to at least give some other impressions for other tubes soon. "assuming people are interested in this, seeing how it's a tube rolling thread"

 PS. i really like the dedication you got with this post and actually giving reasonable responses in a timely manner. Well done


----------



## Iamnothim

On one hand it's great to see all the new folks on the thread...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  On the other hand it means the price for vintage valves will escalate.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So..... save yourself the hassle and money and go buy some new SS gear and move along....
  That's Right !  Move along... there's nothing for you here.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   


Spoiler: Super%20Secret%20Tube%20Club%20%20(members%20only)



Hey guys..   Do you think that will work ???


----------



## HK_sends

Dedication or dementia...I'm not sure which I have...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> On one hand it's great to see all the new folks on the thread...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  So speaks the Asgard 2 owner...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - Why can't I access the Super Secret Tube Club link?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> So speaks the Asgard 2 owner...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It's the Lyr quota.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> It's the Lyr quota.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> On one hand it's great to see all the new folks on the thread...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hah! you know what really sucks though? As a student attempting to tube roll as a hobby, it really hurts the pockets, You're lucky i wont be affording those vintage valves just yet


----------



## toschek

As a middle-aged nerd with a little disposable income it still hurts.  It always hurts.  I'm comforted by the fact that my tubes will probably outlive me at this point.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





toschek said:


> As a middle-aged nerd with a little disposable income it still hurts.  It always hurts.  I'm comforted by the fact that my tubes will probably outlive me at this point.


 
  Aw come on toschek, don't say such a thing. Be more lively, Be one with the music and be young. Even now being in the early 20's i want to say i'm old, but i wouldn't want to think as far as deceased. Cheer up! keep kicking that Lyr and embrace that baby with all the love you got (of course if you have time.)  Love and admire the equipment and technology you got. It sure has improved since your childhood, and that HAS to be something you appreciate greatly. 

 After i saw this one video on how much time and effort tubes were made, it made me realize how much i love doing this. I've got so much to learn about everything, and so do you. Keep your spirits high 







 if link does not work - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n4WVRKkmww&feature=share


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote:Originally Posted by *Iamnothim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif

  Tube extender goo.
   
  Thermocoupler around a valve for 30 minutes.
  131.0 deg F.
  minus
  98.6 
  delta
  32.4 deg F.
  So the opposite of picking up an ice cube.
  I just can't see the glue melting.  The product is very well made.
  Note:  The valve in this test was extended outside the Lyr enclosure.
  You would have to add the ambient temp inside the case.  (I'm not going to do that)
   
   
  Well, not withstanding the math, the glue did indeed melt.  I also used the Electro-Harmonix tube glove when I removed the tube. When I noticed the stringy bits of glue, I then removed the socket saver.  The label was loose and the glue quite soft. But it was not an overwhelming problem, as I was able to remove the glue from the Lyr socket rather easily - no ill effects.  I used some alcohol on the socket save to clean off all the remaining glue and then put it back in- problem solved.
   
  Interestingly, the tubes (Amperex USN-CEP's) were not all that hot - much lower heat load than other tubes I have used in the Lyr. So I am surprised it happened, but it did happen.
   
  Another safe way to proceed is not to remove or roll tubes until they cool down. It was removing the tube, I think, that pulled the glue from the label, the label being angled slightly so that it's top edge was near the base of the tube.
   
  YMMV.


----------



## Iamnothim

After reading your post, I must apologize. 
I don't doubt that you have gunk on the tube extenders, I was scratching my head wondering why. 

I intended my comments to be more rhetorical and I didn't do a good job of expressing myself. Since I've never removed my extenders since I put them in, I could have the same issue.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> After reading your post, I must apologize.
> I don't doubt that you have gunk on the tube extenders, I was scratching my head wondering why.
> 
> I intended my comments to be more rhetorical and I didn't do a good job of expressing myself. Since I've never removed my extenders since I put them in, I could have the same issue.


 
   
  No apology necessary!
   
  Hopefully you don't have the same issue.  The problem only occurred, I believe, because the label was crooked and too close to the tube, and I pulled the tube out while everything was still "hot". The tube pins caught the top edge of the label and pulled glue out as it was removed.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> After reading your post, I must apologize.
> I don't doubt that you have gunk on the tube extenders, I was scratching my head wondering why.
> 
> I intended my comments to be more rhetorical and I didn't do a good job of expressing myself. Since I've never removed my extenders since I put them in, I could have the same issue.


 

 I've never NOT removed my extenders ...... they come out with the tubes every time.  BTW, I got a refund on my non-appearing Lithuanian tubes.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> No apology necessary!
> 
> Hopefully you don't have the same issue.  The problem only occurred, I believe, because the label was crooked and too close to the tube, and I pulled the tube out while everything was still "hot". The tube pins caught the top edge of the label and pulled glue out as it was removed.


 
  Thanks. I really try not to P people off.
  Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I've never NOT removed my extenders ...... they come out with the tubes every time.  BTW, I got a refund on my non-appearing Lithuanian tubes.


 
  Mine are strange.  They don't come out.  I tried a moment ago and it feel like they'll take a lot of effort to get them out.  I'm just fine with that. 
  Perhaps they're glued in place.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Thanks. I really try not to P people off.
> Mine are strange.  They don't come out.  I tried a moment ago and it feel like they'll take a lot of effort to get them out.  I'm just fine with that.
> Perhaps they're glued in place.


 
  Talk about strange, one of mine always stays in the socket and the other one always comes out with the tube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  (yes, the same one)
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I've never NOT removed my extenders ...... they come out with the tubes every time.  BTW, I got a refund on my non-appearing Lithuanian tubes.


 

 What happens if they actually show?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Talk about strange, one of mine always stays in the socket and the other one always comes out with the tube.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Side:
  As I was typing that post I thought..... how can I wordsmith this so it does not go into the gutter..... the list of adjectives and nouns could not be arranged to avoid it !


----------



## toschek

One always stays in for me too, it's not doing any socket saving, it's only frustration saving. 

I got brass tube stabilizer/dampers today. I need to try those out and verify the soundstage bs they were peddled with. I have money running on these claims being absolute junk.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toschek said:


> One always stays in for me too, it's not doing any socket saving, it's only frustration saving.
> 
> I got brass tube stabilizer/dampers today. I need to try those out and verify the soundstage bs they were peddled with. I have money running on these claims being absolute junk.


 
      We're Tube Guys....  We buy ANYTHING!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> What happens if they actually show?


 
  Just opened a case with eBay.


----------



## toschek

iamnothim said:


> We're Tube Guys....  We buy ANYTHING!




I bought them on the off chance they'd help with microphonics, so it's even more ridiculous than you thought.


----------



## Iamnothim

Opinion needed.
  
 I purchased these RTC's E188CC's from Langrex on eBay thinking they were 1960's Mullards. As Listed.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/310353960765?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
  
 Thanks to H_K Sends and Tubemonger, it turns out they are 1980  Mullard E188CC's. dimple getters.
 The seller was great and apologized repeatedly and offered to refund my money including return shipping.
  
 The box arrived today.  I have not opened it.
 If I were to make the seller an offer to keep them what do ya'll think it should be?
 I paid $210 for the pair after currency conversion and shipping.
  
  These are the same Mullard, Mitcham E188CC tubes, except they are 1972 and branded "Vaerix" rather than RTC
  They are $120 for the pair.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330876855394?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  Or just send them back.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I bought them on the off chance they'd help with microphonics, so it's even more ridiculous than you thought.


 
  Check out my Avatar.
  Im a charter member of the Tube Voodoo Electronic Gadget club. or  Tube-VEG Club.
  "I hereby call this meeting to order."


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> We're Tube Guys....  We buy ANYTHING!


 
   
  Hope you guys have better luck with the Socket Savers than I did. About the second time I carefully inserted a tube into one of them, the top of it collapsed. I mean, the black top section just...well, collapsed down about a quarter of an inch. 
   
  In all fairness the socket saver still worked, and I never said anything to Tubemonger, but I quickly grew tired of looking over at the Lyr and seeing one tube extending a bit taller than the other. I'm fairly OCD about stuff like that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Edit: Woke up this morning to see an e-mail from Tubemonger stating that I experienced a very rare problem and that a replacement pair is already on the way...at no charge. Hats off to Tubemonger for the first-class service.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Hope you guys have better luck with the Socket Savers than I did. About the second time I carefully inserted a tube into one of them, the top of it collapsed. I mean, the black top section just...well, collapsed down about a quarter of an inch.
> 
> In all fairness the socket saver still worked, and I never said anything to Tubemonger, but I quickly grew tired of looking over at the Lyr and seeing one tube extending a bit taller than the other. I'm fairly OCD about stuff like that.


 
  For the margin Tubemonger has in those, he will send you a replacement.


----------



## NightFlight

Okay, so like my sig says I just got my 6N23Ps. They sounded pretty good right out of the box. But I took 'em out today to roll in the Simmens E88CC (A6/non-cca/BWB)  I won on the weekend. I let them cook for 4hours before I gave a listen.
   
  Well... YUCK! 
   
  They couldn't hold anything together worth a damn. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   5 minutes later... and back in the box they went.
   
  To be fair the 6N23's have 51hrs of run time about now. They are very enjoyable and I think just getting their stride. Well see how much better they can get.  Methinks the Simmens will have to break in without any listener. The 6N23s were fine to listen to right off the hop.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Opinion needed.
> 
> I purchased these RTC's E188CC's from Langrex on eBay thinking they were 1960's Mullards. As Listed.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310353960765?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> ...


 

 Send them back. For that money you could have bought a Pair of CCa's.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Opinion needed.
> 
> I purchased these RTC's E188CC's from Langrex on eBay thinking they were 1960's Mullards. As Listed.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310353960765?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> ...


 
   
  How much of that will you recoup if you ship them back?  I mean I would on principle, but jeez that is steep and I feel terrible for you.  I'm about to try these brass rings, I'm dreading being played for a fool.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toschek said:


> How much of that will you recoup if you ship them back?  I mean I would on principle, but jeez that is steep and I feel terrible for you.  I'm about to try these brass rings, I'm dreading being played for a fool.


 
  Oh no.
  It's cool.
  I will get 100% back including the cost to ship them back.
   
  I just though,  I have these here.. a) are they any good? b) what are they worth?  Should I offer them "$ xx.xx" and get a partial refund?
  They are Mullard E188CC's   So, are 1980's cr*p ?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Check out my Avatar.
> Im a charter member of the Tube Voodoo Electronic Gadget club. or  Tube-VEG Club.
> "I hereby call this meeting to order."


 
   

 http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm  ?
   
  Talking to my brother the other day. He's not even a tube guy, but he says "Pull the cover, grab the tube about mid-way with your fingers. You should hear a change right away". Gave the screws a cursory glance and the lyr looks a little daunting. Goes without saying that the voltages in there are nasty too.


----------



## wolfetan44

Good amp for anything? I love the look of this amp/Bifrost stack. There not too big and they seem to perform very well. Could the Lyr/Bifrost handle all mid-fi cans? Yes, all, and I also have a O2.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Check out my Avatar.
> Im a charter member of the Tube Voodoo Electronic Gadget club. or  Tube-VEG Club.
> "I hereby call this meeting to order."


 
   
  What they actually work.  This is like the first time something like that happened.   It seems like I am getting better separation too.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Good amp for anything? I love the look of this amp/Bifrost stack. There not too big and they seem to perform very well. Could the Lyr/Bifrost handle all mid-fi cans? Yes, all, and I also have a O2.


 
  I have limited experience with multiple cans.  I started with HD-650's and went to LCD2's.  There was nothing "wrong" with the HD-650's, I just new the LCD2's would that me to another place.    If that helps.


----------



## toschek

Yes, they can do great things for mid-fi cans.   I've tried 702s, HD650 and others through mine (amp only until today).  It delivers.  I just got my Bifrost today and ye gods it brings the noise.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Yes, they can do great things for mid-fi cans.   I've tried 702s, HD650 and others through mine (amp only until today).  It delivers.  I just got my Bifrost today and ye gods it brings the noise.


 
   
  Little things add up. But the DAC is a big one.
  Every *bit* counts. lol  Welcome to mid-fi.
   
  I've been breaking in everything... 80hrs and counting. These tubes at 50 hrs and its like the music finally showed up. Hope the space makes a show in the next 50.


----------



## wolfetan44

I've gotten good impressions from other people on top you guys too, this may be my stack.. I love how small they are yet how prominent they are. Not sure if that makes sense, thats just what I thought when I saw it at a meet..


----------



## Iamnothim

I like the look too.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I like the look too.


 
   
  I know! I can't stop looking at them.  It's not like they're going to do anything, but I keep thinking they are dancing in my peripheral vision.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> For the margin Tubemonger has in those, he will send you a replacement.


 

 Indeed. Woke up this morning to see an e-mail from Tubemonger stating that I experienced a very rare problem and that a replacement pair is already on the way...at no charge.
   
  Hats off to Tubemonger for the first-class service.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I've never NOT removed my extenders ...... they come out with the tubes every time.  BTW, I got a refund on my non-appearing Lithuanian tubes.


 
   
  Quote: 





nightflight said:


> What happens if they actually show?


 
   
  I stepped AWAY from the computer for 18 hours and there are 2 pages of posts to catch up on .....   if they actually show .... as a good eBay citizen, I am morally obligated to contact the seller and repay ---- which I will do ---- even though he (she? Olga?) apparently has no way to track these things.


----------



## NightFlight

What with all the socket saver talk lately I had to get me a couple [size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]Plug & Play, 9-pin B9A NOVAL[/size] [/size][size=12pt][size=12pt]NOVIB Socket Saver[/size][size=12pt]©[/size][/size][/size][size=10pt][size=10pt]with Vibration Reduction Base, and Gold Plated Pins.[/size][/size][/size]
   
  [size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]I can honestly say that I prefer Schitt's recessed look on the Lyr.[/size][/size][/size]


----------



## gmahler2u

I got the Lorenz Sel from Olga!  Great sounding  so far...processing of burning!
   
  With the new socket saver, tubes look taller than before..


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I got the Lorenz Sel from Olga!  Great sounding  so far...processing of burning!
> 
> With the new socket saver, tubes look taller than before..


 
   
  I think they need dressing if they are going to stick up like that. Dampeners can't hurt.


----------



## audioengr

I've compared a lot of different 6922 tubes for my older Spoiler DAC design. By far the best tube I found was the Siemens CCA grey-plate. A pair of these is expensive, particularly strong ones. These were top performers made for the German phone company in the late 50s. They have finer grids than other tubes for superb extension. I tried these in a modded Lyr and they were great.


----------



## gmahler2u

(image missing)


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





audioengr said:


> I've compared a lot of different 6922 tubes for my older Spoiler DAC design. By far the best tube I found was the Siemens CCA grey-plate. A pair of these is expensive, particularly strong ones. These were top performers made for the German phone company in the late 50s. They have finer grids than other tubes for superb extension. I tried these in a modded Lyr and they were great.


 
   
  Can anyone break down the CCA thing for me? If I understand right its a marker for 'low noise'. Now we're talking about low noise in relation to the gain curve, as opposed to noise floor correct? There is this and military spec versions which I assume are just simply more rugged builds, designed initially to take more physical abuse in their respective environment. I grabbed a pair of non-cca Simmens which were much cheaper, but effectively German DOD grade (BWB). At this point I'm basically taste testing different makes trying to find out what I like, so I went with a buy now $100 pair. All I have to do is break them in to see if they were worth the purchase. The boxes and internal structure so far as I can tell are definitely the real deal - ie the internal date stamps can't be replicated.
   
  There's another pair up for grabs here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/281066852578?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
  I think the $20 shipping was worth it. 4days from Germany.
   
  The CCA versions of this tube are crazy expensive. Not as much as a pair of E188CC Telefunkens mind you. My question I guess is this... are the ones I picked up going to give me a good idea of what the CCA versions are like? Or are they completely different beasts?
   
  A swap program would be nice.  Trust is a problem though. Yikes. I can't imagine having to give up your borrowed dream tubes.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Indeed. Woke up this morning to see an e-mail from Tubemonger stating that I experienced a very rare problem and that a replacement pair is already on the way...at no charge.
> 
> Hats off to Tubemonger for the first-class service.


 
   
  This post is what tipped me over the edge when considering which to get.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I got the Lorenz Sel from Olga!  Great sounding  so far...processing of burning!
> 
> With the new socket saver, tubes look taller than before..


 
   
  Do you happen to know what day you ordered them?  I ordered Jan 20 and haven't received ......


----------



## Slowfade

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Do you happen to know what day you ordered them?  I ordered Jan 20 and haven't received ......


 
  Mine took a couple weeks, give or take a day or 3. I ordered them Feb 7 - sent to Vancouver, Canada. The post can be unreliable. I fully believe that if I were to buy another set today, it could just as easy take 4 weeks.... ya never know.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Do you happen to know what day you ordered them?  I ordered Jan 20 and haven't received ......


 

 I ordered them from 2/10 and they shipped on 2/13


----------



## Olga G

I'm Olga, and of course I'm "she"...
   
  I'm here just to say, that there was some kind of uknown truoble, that 3 parcells sent on the same date (January 22) hasn't been received yet. All others who bought from us after that date have got their items.
  I have no idea, why it happens. Who opened the cases - were refunded, but I hope if one day you receive them you will know what to do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thank You Luke (again) for this site
   
  Olga


----------



## R Scott Ireland

slowfade said:


> Mine took a couple weeks, give or take a day or 3. I ordered them Feb 7 - sent to Vancouver, Canada. The post can be unreliable. I fully believe that if I were to buy another set today, it could just as easy take 4 weeks.... ya never know.




I too ordered a set and received them in 2 weeks. BTW, the tubes sound OK, but nothing special. In fairness, though, I haven't broken them in yet.


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





olga g said:


> I'm Olga, and of course I'm "she"...
> 
> I'm here just to say, that there was some kind of uknown truoble, that 3 parcells sent on the same date (January 22) hasn't been received yet. All others who bought from us after that date have got their items.
> I have no idea, why it happens. Who opened the cases - were refunded, but I hope if one day you receive them you will know what to do
> ...


 

 Olga--I am one from that date and *IF* they ever show up I know what to do....
   
  Hope they do as I was really looking forward to them!!!
   
  Jack


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





olga g said:


> I'm Olga, and of course I'm "she"...
> 
> I'm here just to say, that there was some kind of uknown truoble, that 3 parcells sent on the same date (January 22) hasn't been received yet. All others who bought from us after that date have got their items.
> I have no idea, why it happens. Who opened the cases - were refunded, but I hope if one day you receive them you will know what to do
> ...


 
  Olga,
   
  Welcome to Head-Fi!  I sure the folks here understand that the issues are out of your control.  I've always thought international shipping was risky since there are so many places that packages could get held up.
   
  I do want to thank you very much for making the Lorenz SEL tubes available to us.  Since the German-made Lorenz supply has pretty much dried up I've always considered the SELs as a decent alternative.  I bought three sets from you through Ebay and I am very happy with them.
   
  I wish you continued success and hope that whatever caused the delays in shipping was just a one-time thing.  Thank you for joining and telling us what happened.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





olga g said:


> I'm Olga, and of course I'm "she"...
> 
> I'm here just to say, that there was some kind of uknown truoble, that 3 parcells sent on the same date (January 22) hasn't been received yet. All others who bought from us after that date have got their items.
> I have no idea, why it happens. Who opened the cases - were refunded, but I hope if one day you receive them you will know what to do
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for taking the time to find your buyers.  I just bought a 4 pack.


----------



## NightFlight

... ouch wallet... I'm going to have to ask them to ban me or something.


----------



## Sniperbombers

as mentioned in previous posts.. Dampeners. Worth it? Id actually like to know where some people ended up getting them. I tried ebay as my first resource and only found red rings:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Vacuum-Tube-Damper-Dampeners-Fit-12AX7-6EU7-6BQ5-/190805640735?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c6ce7061f


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> as mentioned in previous posts.. Dampeners. Worth it? Id actually like to know where some people ended up getting them. I tried ebay as my first resource and only found red rings:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Vacuum-Tube-Damper-Dampeners-Fit-12AX7-6EU7-6BQ5-/190805640735?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c6ce7061f


 
  Answer 1: Yes.
   
  Answer 2: These are very popular (especially the Rx versions): http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm
   
  Click on the pictures to see the "premium" ones...click on the link below FAQ's link that says, "More tube dampers" for some additional (and less expensive) options.  Whichever version you choose, buy the dampers for the 9-pin tubes.  Hope this helps!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> as mentioned in previous posts.. Dampeners. Worth it? Id actually like to know where some people ended up getting them. I tried ebay as my first resource and only found red rings:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Vacuum-Tube-Damper-Dampeners-Fit-12AX7-6EU7-6BQ5-/190805640735?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c6ce7061f


 
  You could ask Iamnothim, but he imploded.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> You could ask Iamnothim, but he imploded.


 
  The dampers in his picture are Herbie's Audio Rx-9s.  I use them myself.  The only issues with them is the O-rings will flatten where pressed against the tubes, but you can take them off the damper and massage 'em back into shape (seriously, NO pun intended).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Answer 1: Yes.
> 
> Answer 2: These are very popular (especially the Rx versions): http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm
> 
> ...


 
  Oh sorry, I didn't see this link already.
   
  I posted the UltraSonic RX link without explanation yesterday, in reference to Iamnothim's avatar. I think that if you have your tubes hiked up in the Lyr with socket savers, they look a bit ungainly. So while I believe dampeners help, not everyone necessarily think so. I'm just saying that if you are in the camp of the latter, they would at the very least look nice.  Hell, some people can't even tell the difference in sound between tubes.
   
  I for one have finally discovered my first break in with the 6N23Ps. They did in fact take nearly 100hrs to show their true colours. Not fully there yet and I'm hoping for further opening up. When they did start to break in the difference to me was a very sudden change. It's like the music showed up and the $ expense on the rig worth every penny. I haven't heard 'Music' for years, and I had begun to forget what it was like.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Oh sorry, I didn't see this link already.
> 
> I posted the UltraSonic RX link without explanation yesterday, in reference to Iamnothim's avatar. I think that if you have your tubes hiked up in the Lyr with socket savers, they look a bit ungainly. So while I believe dampeners help, not everyone necessarily think so. I'm just saying that if you are in the camp of the latter, they would at the very least look nice.  Hell, some people can't even tell the difference in sound between tubes.
> 
> I for one have finally discovered my first break in with the 6N23Ps. They did in fact take nearly 100hrs to show their true colours. Not fully there yet and I'm hoping for further opening up. When they did start to break in the difference to me was a very sudden change. It's like the music showed up and the $ expense on the rig worth every penny. I haven't heard 'Music' for years, and I had begun to forget what it was like.


 
  I'm glad the tubes are opening up for you!  You are right about looking ungainly and the dampers do help to address the look, plus you get the benefit of the damping.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Answer 1: Yes.
> 
> Answer 2: These are very popular (especially the Rx versions): http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm
> 
> ...


 
  Ahhh! k i will definitely put this on the side as a near future purchase


----------



## toschek

I bought these brass rings from audiotubes.com, and I think they are pretty good too if you wanted to see some other options.
   
  http://www.audiotubes.com/damper.htm
   
  I didn't believe in it at first but they seem to sharpen everything up just a little bit.  I can definitely tell a difference when I take them off.


----------



## TooPoor

This thread has already cost me a significant amount of money (sans the initial Lyr purchase) so I come here for opinions on how well the HD800's work with a Lyr/Bifrost combo. I've always had headphones that emphasized some coloration, but I'm hearing awesome things about the newest HD800 batches (s/n 20###+), not being so cold/harsh, etc. And tubes can do wonders, as we all know. But is the Lyr powerful enough? No way I'm going to go out and buy a $2k amp (at the moment at least 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Just looking for some honest, educated opinions!


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> This thread has already cost me a significant amount of money (sans the initial Lyr purchase) so I come here for opinions on how well the HD800's work with a Lyr/Bifrost combo. I've always had headphones that emphasized some coloration, but I'm hearing awesome things about the newest HD800 batches (s/n 20###+), not being so cold/harsh, etc. And tubes can do wonders, as we all know. But is the Lyr powerful enough? No way I'm going to go out and buy a $2k amp (at the moment at least
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well my jump into the world of headphones has just recently started. I read and read to try and determine what I would want. I got a deal on the HD800s. I got them at a price that was close enough to the HD650's that I thought the extra expense would be worth it. I spent more on the Bifrost/Lyr combo than I did on the 800s, but I had to start somewhere. Wishing now that I had bought them used, as it would have negated break-in,but I wasn't patient enough. Oh well.
   
  As for the synergy.. its okay. I can't speak of any comparison however. The HD800 Appreciation thread is a better place for that. From what I've bee told the Lyr is basically a starting point. I can only guess that it will allow you get a sense of what the HD800 is capable of. I see it as a starting point. I might mod the Lyr and see what happens or in a year or so go in the DIY direction.  The Lyr is a budget amp. Does it sound like one? No. Does it sound like a crazy expensive amp? No.  It will offer some fun. It retains its value, you can always sell it here on Head-Fi with relative ease. In fact... you could wait for one to come up and grab it for a bit cheaper. The warranty follows the hardware.
   
  I really dig the idea of tweaking out the sound with different tubes though. I'm determined to try them all.  There seems to be two camps. Amperex and Mullard. Depends on what you like. But the way I see it, that's the beauty of it. I'm just hoping my tastes don't turn out to be a ridiculously expensive and rare type.


----------



## TooPoor

It'd be a compulsive (not impulsive) purchase. I truly love my LCD2.2's out of the Lyr with my Orange Globes. I just want to experience the spaciousness the HD800 offers, whereas the LCD's are a a bit more narrow/forward. I'm just quite worried about the sibilance and harshness I hear about all the time. Input appreciated!


----------



## toschek

I was in a listening situation on Friday where I was let down by the HD700s, and since I have a month left to return the HD700s I was glad I caught this before I got stuck.  Long story short, I will have HD800s by the end of the week (dunno why I am giving Sennheiser another chance, glutton for punishment and a long time admiration for their mics in recording applications I guess) and I'll have an opinion I'm sure on how it matches to the Lyr.
   
  The Lyr has plenty of power and I'm sure it'll make a good mate for HD800s.  Since the HD800 is so neutral your choice of tube will be highly impactful.   
   
  I'm actually looking forward to that, for a while now I felt like all of the headphones I have had till now - grado 225i, HD650, K702, K702.65, HD700 have all been a little shy of neutral so I can never quite get the true flavor of a particular tube.   It will definitely be interesting.   Since I've been almost entirely listening to large ensemble pieces lately I am looking forward to the soundstage.
   
  There seems to be a fair number of users in this thread who have Bifrost/Lyr/HD800 and I haven't seen much dissatisfaction.
   
  The only thing is I have heard that the HD800s do way better in balanced mode, especially on soundstage it makes a tremendous difference.  It also just sounds much fuller and richer.   I have heard a comparison of HD800 in single-ended vs balanced to be like SDTV vs. HDTV, so that is something to consider.   I look forward to Schiit's "statement" amp later this year (hoping very much that all these tubes I bought for the Lyr can be used there, I will seriously be sad if I can't use them) as I think it will probably be the perfect mate for every set of headphone and efficient speaker you can find.  The pricing sounds good too if they are really talking about keeping it under $2K.
   
  Anyway I think the HD800/Lyr will be good for a while, I would just keep a balanced amp/source on your horizon.   That is what I am going to do.


----------



## TooPoor

And that is exactly why I came here instead of the Appreciation Thread! Their neutrality should allow for noticeable differences with tubes. Plus, the Lyr IS powerful. I just keep reading about people buying massively expensive amps for the HD800's and I can't imagine the Lyr not being able to power them well... I'm pretty new at this, so my assumptions are just that; assumptions. Let me know what you think!


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> And that is exactly why I came here instead of the Appreciation Thread! Their neutrality should allow for noticeable differences with tubes. Plus, the Lyr IS powerful. I just keep reading about people buying massively expensive amps for the HD800's and I can't imagine the Lyr not being able to power them well... I'm pretty new at this, so my assumptions are just that; assumptions. Let me know what you think!


 
   
  I think its more about headroom and finesse... detail. The H800s crave it. I think the Lyr is an excellent amp, just perhaps not endgame. But increments in fidelity get smaller while the increments in $ get bigger. Logarithmic in fact.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Okay, so like my sig says I just got my 6N23Ps. They sounded pretty good right out of the box. But I took 'em out today to roll in the Simmens E88CC (A6/non-cca/BWB)  I won on the weekend. I let them cook for 4hours before I gave a listen.
> 
> Well... YUCK!
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Well, I gave the Simmens another go. Initially, they were just as shrieky as they were before. However a couple hours later they gave up their forbidden fruit for me. I'm really impressed. They are much more spacious. The mids are more forward, bass still there. Open. Airy. Effortless. Musical. These are my new favorites in fact. The 800s are back in the box (works wonderfully as a hush box!) and breaking in tubes again. *sigh* Does it ever end?
   
  Anyone want to swap something for my 6N23P-EVs to try? At 98hrs I'm wondering if their even fully broken in due to the millspec. ie, takes longer to break in, but much longer to die too.


----------



## NightFlight

100th post. Goodnight!


----------



## Bananaheadlin

nightflight said:


> 100th post. Goodnight!




Congrats! 

A quick question as I am not very familiar with tubes. Are the stock tubes by any chance versatile, or is tube rolling a must to get the best synergy for all your phones?


----------



## toschek

You almost have to sorry, the JJ option is OK until you hear alternatives though (just don't follow this thread lest you get tempted.)


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> 100th post. Goodnight!


 
  Ahh...I remember my 100th post, back in the day...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> It'd be a compulsive (not impulsive) purchase. I truly love my LCD2.2's out of the Lyr with my Orange Globes. I just want to experience the spaciousness the HD800 offers, whereas the LCD's are a a bit more narrow/forward. I'm just quite worried about the sibilance and harshness I hear about all the time. Input appreciated!


 

 There is an essential mod for the HD800 here.
  There is an essential mod for the HE500 here
   
  If you own the above cans, do those mods first. Then roll tubes.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





bananaheadlin said:


> Congrats!
> 
> A quick question as I am not very familiar with tubes. Are the stock tubes by any chance versatile, or is tube rolling a must to get the best synergy for all your phones?


 
   
  It would be best to investigate options. I've only heard tube sound a few times, but I knew I liked it when I did. Tubes and HP really like each other. However, the stock tubes while good won't provide the best the amp can do. And it doesn't necessarily mean expensive will match your taste. You can spend a fortune on ebay. Expensive tubes mostly mean rare and heavily sought. Which means... in my book their likely sought out for a reason. *grin*  This still doesn't mean that your tastes lie in that direction. Keep an open mind and try out cheap ones too. You never know. From reading this thread I'm getting the impression from the old guard that tube prices have jumped recently.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> It would be best to investigate options. I've only heard tube sound a few times, but I knew I liked it when I did. Tubes and HP really like each other. However, the stock tubes while good won't provide the best the amp can do. And it doesn't necessarily mean expensive will match your taste. You can spend a fortune on ebay. Expensive tubes mostly mean rare and heavily sought. Which means... in my book their likely sought out for a reason. *grin*  This still doesn't mean that your tastes lie in that direction. Keep an open mind and try out cheap ones too. You never know. From reading this thread I'm getting the impression from the old guard that tube prices have jumped recently.


 
  indeed they have, just by a little bit. Sadly i wouldnt have been able to afford them anyways.


----------



## gmahler2u

I just received the pair of Valvo e88cc red label.  I had high expectation because It's my first over $100 tube, but So far it's disappointment.
  I'm still burning this tube, not 100+ hour yet.  We'll see throughout this week.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I just received the pair of Valvo e88cc red label.  I had high expectation because It's my first over $100 tube, but So far it's disappointment.
> I'm still burning this tube, not 100+ hour yet.  We'll see throughout this week.


 
   
  Given what I heard change out of the 6N23P after ~100hrs.. I wouldn't discount any tube until 150 now. Maybe longer. Thinking longer on military grade. But I don't know.


----------



## TooPoor

So I just bought the HD800's... Need tube suggestions. Keep in mind, the new(er) HD800's don't appear to suffer from the harsh 6k treble issue. So I'm looking for a tube that will hit low, extend well, and tame the 'potentially' harsh highs associated with the HD800's. Suggestions? Also not looking to spend $350+ on a pair... Some of us believe we can have our cake and eat it too.


----------



## NightFlight

How are the orange globes? Joes tube lore: http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html
  Gives them high praise. I have a couple pair coming to me any time.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> How are the orange globes? Joes tube lore: http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html
> Gives them high praise. I have a couple pair coming to me any time.


 
   
  We need a tube wiki.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I just received the pair of Valvo e88cc red label.  I had high expectation because It's my first over $100 tube, but So far it's disappointment.
> I'm still burning this tube, not 100+ hour yet.  We'll see throughout this week.


 

 What are you coming from?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> There is an essential mod for the HD800 here.
> There is an essential mod for the HE500 here
> 
> If you own the above cans, do those mods first. Then roll tubes.


 

 The mods for the 800s are debatable. There is sibilence in the 800s, but its about where you would expect it. I found my tubes reaching their break in point help that tremendously. There's quite a few people who think that the 20xxxx 800s have been silently changed at the factory. I have a 20xxxx pair and about 200+ hours into its breakin. I've read a couple posts that state 400+hrs were required before the 800s fully clean up on their own.


----------



## TooPoor

I'm hoping to get a 20### pair myself. We'll see tomorrow. Also picked up some 64' Bugle Boys (non slanted). Excited to see how everything sounds/compares.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Given what I heard change out of the 6N23P after ~100hrs.. I wouldn't discount any tube until 150 now. Maybe longer. Thinking longer on military grade. But I don't know.


 

 WOw, I should wait patiently.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

gmahler2u said:


> I just received the pair of Valvo e88cc red label.  I had high expectation because It's my first over $100 tube, but So far it's disappointment.
> I'm still burning this tube, not 100+ hour yet.  We'll see throughout this week.




Those made mr. scary's top 5 list, so I bet they will sound better with time on them. 
I'm not sure if I can find his list with in the whole thread but it should be reposted it was what I went by when I was starting and it helped a lot. Maybe the fellow knows who just read the whole thread will know


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

mrscary said:


> *Updated list 2*
> 
> *Scarys list of the Top 5 and take it for what its worth opinion of tubes to try*
> 
> ...




Found it, I think later he commented that the Lorenz from stuttgart would make the top3. If he ever gets on the thread maybe he will comment


----------



## nelamvr6

Oh great!  Now my apartment is full of Schiit!
   
   

   
   
  Burning in the stock GEs right now.  I figure I should spend at least some time listening to them before I start rolling...


----------



## nelamvr6

Heads up!  I found 6BZ7s here:
   
http://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/6/TubesListed_6-2.html
   
  at $1.60 per.  I figured, at that price, worth a shot.  I bought a few, though all the list says is "various brands".
   
  Well, I got them today and all the ones I got are RCA 6BZ7s.
   
  Definitely worth it for Lyr rollers!


----------



## NightFlight

So what's a typical tube warm-up time? I just got a pair of OG's in the mail today and I tried them out after about 10min of warming up. A ponderance of painful sibilance in Bjork's Hyper-Ballad inspired me to take off my HPs without much delay.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> So what's a typical tube warm-up time? I just got a pair of OG's in the mail today and I tried them out after about 10min of warming up. A ponderance of painful sibilance in Bjork's Hyper-Ballad inspired me to take off my HPs without much delay.


 
   
   
  Don't confuse warm up with burn in (or run in).
   
  Tubes should be warmed up in about ten minutes.  But the sound signature will change over time until it reaches a somewhat final state.  Exactly when this happens is subject to some debate.  Did you get the GEs or the JJs?


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Heads up!  I found 6BZ7s here:
> 
> http://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/6/TubesListed_6-2.html
> 
> ...


 
  i would totally buy tons of these! however... Are they/would they be matched properly? I'm actually very interested in getting a few pairs.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Oh great!  Now my apartment is full of Schiit!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  They're not bad. I don't think I gave them enough time.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Don't confuse warm up with burn in (or run in).
> 
> Tubes should be warmed up in about ten minutes.  But the sound signature will change over time until it reaches a somewhat final state.  Exactly when this happens is subject to some debate.  Did you get the GEs or the JJs?


 

 Mine cam with the GE pair
   
  Nah I'm asking about warm-up time. Not burn-in. Might have been poor contact. 
  Wish I had two Lyr's with an A/B swich.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> i would totally buy tons of these! however... Are they/would they be matched properly? I'm actually very interested in getting a few pairs.


 
   
  I bought 16, they are definitely NOS.  I figured, at that price, I can get a bunch, and if I have to go through a few of them to find two that sound good together, no problem.
   
  Anyone know how to read date codes on these?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Mine cam with the GE pair
> 
> Nah I'm asking about warm-up time. Not burn-in. Might have been poor contact.
> Wish I had two Lyr's with an A/B swich.


 
   
   
  All it takes is money...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Mine cam with the GE pair
> 
> Nah I'm asking about warm-up time. Not burn-in. Might have been poor contact.
> Wish I had two Lyr's with an A/B swich.


 
   
  These are sounding much better already, after about 3 hours.  Straight out of the box they sounded really V shaped, now the midrange is coming into its own.


----------



## nelamvr6




----------



## DutchGFX

I just ordered an O2 for portable use, but, I was wondering if any1 could compare the Lyr and O2 for desktop. I read the O2 is better, but I don't really believe that is true. I ink the lyr makes my Q701's sound great, even without a dac. It is a little jumbled and sharp at times, but that's most likely just the lack of a dac or the cans. 

So can any1 compare the O2 and the Lyr?


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> I just ordered an O2 for portable use, but, I was wondering if any1 could compare the Lyr and O2 for desktop. I read the O2 is better, but I don't really believe that is true. I ink the lyr makes my Q701's sound great, even without a dac. It is a little jumbled and sharp at times, but that's most likely just the lack of a dac or the cans.
> 
> So can any1 compare the O2 and the Lyr?


 
  Have an O2 but haven't heard a Lyr. The Lyr is going to be better, period.


----------



## DutchGFX

wolfetan44 said:


> Have an O2 but haven't heard a Lyr. The Lyr is going to be better, period.




Thanks! And also, you think a Gamma2 will improve sound greatly? 

P.S. you post in like, every thread I post in, it's kinda weird haha


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, its a DAC if I researched correctly. Some people think the source is the most important part of a headphone setup(past the headphone of course
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Anyways, grab some other tubes, like the Mullard CV2493. Yea I'm on this forum too often.


----------



## DutchGFX

And you have K167's too... This is madness! 
NOOO this is Head-Fi!  had to get the spongebob joke in there lol

Anyways, just bought the Gamma2, I'm down $200 this week, looks like its timemtomsell some random household stuff XD

Thanks for ur help


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> And you have K167's too... This is madness!
> NOOO this is Head-Fi!  had to get the spongebob joke in there lol
> 
> Anyways, just bought the Gamma2, I'm down $200 this week, looks like its timemtomsell some random household stuff XD
> ...


 
  And selling them.


----------



## nelamvr6

OK, the stock GE 6BZ7s are definitely improving, it seems as I listen to them!
   
  Right now, after about 10 hours, the midrange has improved considerably.  But there's still quite a bit of congestion during busy passages of music.  The bass is fairly fast and punchy.  The highs have some sparkle and shimmer, so right now the only flaw I could point to is the congestion.  Unfortunately that would be enough for me to pass on these tubes.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> OK, the stock GE 6BZ7s are definitely improving, it seems as I listen to them!
> 
> Right now, after about 10 hours, the midrange has improved considerably.  But there's still quite a bit of congestion during busy passages of music.  The bass is fairly fast and punchy.  The highs have some sparkle and shimmer, so right now the only flaw I could point to is the congestion.  Unfortunately that would be enough for me to pass on these tubes.


 
   
  10hrs ain't enough. Add 90 more.  Every tube is different though. To be fair I only have 30hrs on my GEs though.  Makes me want to go back and check them out.   But I've sworn off changes until I get my socket savers.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> 10hrs ain't enough. Add 90 more.  Every tube is different though. To be fair I only have 30hrs on my GEs though.  Makes me want to go back and check them out.   But I've sworn off changes until I get my socket savers.


 
   
   
  Yeah, I'm not done with these yet.
   
  And, I switched recordings, it appears that the congestion I was hearing was a bad recording.
   
  I'm listening to a really nicely mastered CD right now, and it sounds pretty damn good!
   
  The trouble, I do have some really nice, really old, NOS tubes just sitting there...
   
  It's hard to be patient!


----------



## toschek

Go ahead and switch them out if you have nice nos sitting around. Unless you like waiting around. I'd personally burn the GEs in while I'm doing other things.


----------



## DutchGFX

How do I use the socket savers? When I go to change tubes, the socket comes out with the tube, is that supposed to happen.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Yeah, I'm not done with these yet.
> 
> And, I switched recordings, it appears that the congestion I was hearing was a bad recording.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Too many variables!  Is the problem the recording?  The DAC?  Are you really experiencing tube burn-in or brain burn-in??


----------



## toschek

dutchgfx said:


> How do I use the socket savers? When I go to change tubes, the socket comes out with the tube, is that supposed to happen.




Its different for everyone. If yours happen to come out, then attach them to replacement tubes BEFORE you swap them in (will make the job 10x easier.)


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> How do I use the socket savers? When I go to change tubes, the socket comes out with the tube, is that supposed to happen.


 
   
  Which savers do you have, and how much rolling did you do before started using them?


----------



## DutchGFX

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Which savers do you have, and how much rolling did you do before started using them?


 

 I got them from someone else, and not much yet, only have 2 pairs. I just want to know if thats normal for them to come out, I don't mind it


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Too many variables!  Is the problem the recording?  The DAC?  Are you really experiencing tube burn-in or brain burn-in??


 
   
   
  These tubes have definitely changed a LOT!  I'm going to switch in some NOS tubes here shortly, but these tubes sound a lot better now than when I first started.
   
  I am as skeptical as the next guy on burn-in when it comes to a lot of things, but with respect to tubes, I am 100% convinced, the effect is real!
   
  If I didn't have other tubes to try, I could see myself using these tubes indefinitely and being completely satisfied.  They are actually quite nice once they run in.
   
  Don't take my word for it, try it yourself!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> I got them from someone else, and not much yet, only have 2 pairs. I just want to know if thats normal for them to come out, I don't mind it


 
   
   
  Don't worry too much, a lot of people here have reported the same thing.  It happens.  If it really bothers you you can try using something like a plastic screwdriver, something sturdy enough and NON-CONDUCTIVE to hold the savers in while you gently remover the tubes.
   
  Or you can just attache the savers to the replacement tubes and put them back in.


----------



## nelamvr6

OK, I rolled in a set of NOS Amperex USN-CEP, and all I can say is WOW!!
   
  These sound much better from the get go!  Detail, resolution and presence are all much improved, and that without any burn in at all!
   
  Can't wait to see how these turn out!
   
  And they're dead quiet, if I turn the volume all the way up with no music playing I get a very slight hum.  At normal listening levels the background is totally black!


----------



## gmahler2u

Man Why is Siemens CCa stupid expensive!!!!!  AHhhh


----------



## rdaneel

Are there any common recommendations for upgraded tubes that aren't $150+/pair?  I'd like to mess around with some tube rolling, but can't invest a lot of coin.  Nor do I know enough to hunt through the virtual bargain bins in the hope of finding something worthwhile?  Can anyone throw me a couple suggestions?  Thanks!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Man Why is Siemens CCa stupid expensive!!!!!  AHhhh


 
   
  Supply and demand...


----------



## gmahler2u

Check this deal....is this fake or real?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-matched-Pair-Premium-Amperex-PQ-6688-E180F-Tubes-gold-pin-square-getter-USA-/350730491514?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item51a92a967a


----------



## toschek

Lorenz SEL PCC88 tubes are good for the money, there is an eBay seller who has them regularly at around $50/pair plus shipping. Tungsram ECC88s are nice too and can be found in pairs under $100, and finally keep an eye out for Brimar/Mullard CV2492s which you can find for under $100/pair if you are persistent.


----------



## rdaneel

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Lorenz SEL PCC88 tubes are good for the money, there is an eBay seller who has them regularly at around $50/pair plus shipping. Tungsram ECC88s are nice too and can be found in pairs under $100, and finally keep an eye out for Brimar/Mullard CV2492s which you can find for under $100/pair if you are persistent.


 
  Thank you for the advice!


----------



## rdaneel

The Lyr I picked up came with three pairs of tubes, none of which I expect to be that good.  Still, I'm curious if folks have experience with these:
   
  Sovtek 6922 (appears to have an 01 02 date code)
  Electro-Harmonix 6922 EH (appears to have an 04 12 date code)
  GE JAN-6BQ7A (these were once sold as the standard tubes by Schiit?)
   
  The Sovtek and E-H look identical, and I believe E-H is simply the new name for the same company.  If so, I would expect these would sound the same, and there is no need to break them both in to get a sense of the sound.
   
  Of the lot, I think the GEs may be the best, though that may not be saying much.  Maybe I'll have to try some of Olga's Lorenz PCC88s...  I want to give the Lyr a fair shot against the Burson Soloist SL.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





rdaneel said:


> Thank you for the advice!


 
   
  Correction on that, the Tungsram 6922/E88CC not ECC88 
   
  Good luck to you!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Lorenz SEL PCC88 tubes are good for the money, there is an eBay seller who has them regularly at around $50/pair plus shipping. Tungsram ECC88s are nice too and can be found in pairs under $100, and finally keep an eye out for Brimar/Mullard CV2492s which you can find for under $100/pair if you are persistent.


 

 is this it?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Matched-Pair-of-1950s-Mullard-E88CC-Valves-Tubes-6922-CV2492-/330881789972?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item4d0a177014


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





rdaneel said:


> The Lyr I picked up came with three pairs of tubes, none of which I expect to be that good.  Still, I'm curious if folks have experience with these:
> 
> Sovtek 6922 (appears to have an 01 02 date code)
> Electro-Harmonix 6922 EH (appears to have an 04 12 date code)
> ...


 
   
   
  I'm pretty sure those EHs are made by Sovtek.  That's not at all uncommon.  Skim through this thread and you'll find lots of instances where one company is making tubes that will eventually wear another company's brand.
   
  Give them a shot, maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised...


----------



## toschek

I am not sure those are the Mullards I am thinking of, that looks like a lot of search bait word salad on the eBay listing.   For all I know those might be awesome though!
   
  The ones I am thinking of look like this:
   





   
  The ones I have are Brimars and they are fuller in both the bass and mids than the Mullards I have tried.
   
  They look like this (note the [KB/AD] on these and the [KB/D] on the ones above):


----------



## ilikepooters

Got my first load of tubes today, not had time to try them all yet, but i must say, i have some OTK (?) 6N1P's and they sound amazing with my HE5-LE's.
   
  Never heard mids like it before, the sibilance is gone, treble is less fatiguing, and the soundstage is huuuge.
   
  I got some RCA tubes to try out tomorrow, 6BZ7/6BQ7A or something.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Got my first load of tubes today, not had time to try them all yet, but i must say, i have some RTK (?) 6N1P's and they sound amazing with my HE5-LE's.
> 
> Never heard mids like it before, the sibilance is gone, treble is less fatiguing, and the soundstage is huuuge.
> 
> I got some RCA tubes to try out tomorrow, 6BZ7/6BQ7A or something.


 
  are you talking about an ordering from surplussales.com?


----------



## ilikepooters

Don't know where they came from originally, but i bought them from a seller on here.


----------



## audioengr

nightflight said:


> Can anyone break down the CCA thing for me? If I understand right its a marker for 'low noise'. Now we're talking about low noise in relation to the gain curve, as opposed to noise floor correct? There is this and military spec versions which I assume are just simply more rugged builds, designed initially to
> 
> 
> 
> ...











I have tried the standard Siemens E88CC, the CCA and the CCA grey-plates. There is no contest, the grey plates win. The non-grey plates are quite good however and a lot cheaper. The British tubes, Amperex PQ and Philips are not even in the same league.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





audioengr said:


> I have tried the standard Siemens E88CC, the CCA and the CCA grey-plates. There is no contest, the grey plates win. The non-grey plates are quite good however and a lot cheaper. The British tubes, Amperex PQ and Philips are not even in the same league.


 
   
   
  If the Amperex PQ are not even in the same league, I am well and truly screwed!  Because these USN-CEPs are sounding so schweet right now!  Not even in the same league?  Are you sure you're not employing hyperbole?
   
  I don't want to pay $500 for a pair of CCa gray plates.
   
  Well, that's the nature of the hobby I guess, that final 1% is the most expensive...


----------



## toschek

... and then you start looking at speakers.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> If the Amperex PQ are not even in the same league, I am well and truly screwed!  Because these USN-CEPs are sounding so schweet right now!  Not even in the same league?  Are you sure you're not employing hyperbole?
> 
> I don't want to pay $500 for a pair of CCa gray plates.
> 
> Well, that's the nature of the hobby I guess, that final 1% is the most expensive...


 
   
  Well, you can look at it like .... you can afford 2-3 sets of tubes and tailor your sound depending on what you're listening to/your mood or have one set of CCa tubes and maybe you're stuck with them if you don't like the way they sound?
   
  And I have a set of Telefunken E88CC/6922s that I put down about $400 for a matched pair.   They are nice, really great tubes and one of my favorites.   But I enjoy the Brimars I bought for $100, the Lorenz I bought for $50, the Amperex A-Frame dimple disc pair I bought for $50 and on and on.   In retrospect did I really need to spend $400 on one set?  Probably not, and if I think about it too much, definitely not and I should probably have been smarter with my money.   I'm still glad to have them I guess, and I'll hold on to them a couple of years and maybe sell them for more than I paid for them (or an asteroid will demolish the earth tomorrow, who knows!)


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





toschek said:


> ... and then you start looking at speakers.


 
   
   
  Nah, I'm all set for speakers, thanks!


----------



## gmahler2u

I see B&W 803 or 804?...nice i have 805....I should change my habby....no money...
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Nah, I'm all set for speakers, thanks!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I see B&W 803 or 804?...nice i have 805....I should change my habby....no money...


 
   
  Thanks!  805s are sweet too.  So long as it says B&W somewhere on the speaker you'll probably have decent sound.
   
  Those are B&W 804s, the previous version, with the aluminum tweeters.  I can't see myself needing speakers for the rest of my life, unless something tragic, like a fire, happens. And for that I have insurance.  BTW, that's an old photo, the system has changed quite a bit since then.
   
  Now, I just need to figure out where to scrape up a spare $500 for some Siemens & Halske CCa Gray plates...  And paying for them isn't even the hard part, FINDING them is even harder!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I see B&W 803 or 804?...nice i have 805....I should change my habby....no money...


 
   
   
  You have JHA 16s and Westone 4s?  Yeah, you're really hurting!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The JHA-16s will be mine!  But I'm gonna have to wait until next summer...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Well, you can look at it like .... you can afford 2-3 sets of tubes and tailor your sound depending on what you're listening to/your mood or have one set of CCa tubes and maybe you're stuck with them if you don't like the way they sound?
> 
> And I have a set of Telefunken E88CC/6922s that I put down about $400 for a matched pair.   They are nice, really great tubes and one of my favorites.   But I enjoy the Brimars I bought for $100, the Lorenz I bought for $50, the Amperex A-Frame dimple disc pair I bought for $50 and on and on.   In retrospect did I really need to spend $400 on one set?  Probably not, and if I think about it too much, definitely not and I should probably have been smarter with my money.   I'm still glad to have them I guess, and I'll hold on to them a couple of years and maybe sell them for more than I paid for them (or an asteroid will demolish the earth tomorrow, who knows!)


 
   
   
  I hear ya!
   
  I'm actually thinking I may be done with these USN-CEPs.  If then S&H CCas sound that much better, I'm better off not knowing.
   
  Think about it, if you do hit upon your nirvana tube, you really need to have a couple extra sets, just for backup.  These things will last 5,000 hours under ideal conditions.  And they're not going to get any cheaper...
   
  But I have some tubes I already bought, I should at least listen to them anyway...


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Thanks!  805s are sweet too.  So long as it says B&W somewhere on the speaker you'll probably have decent sound.
> 
> Those are B&W 804s, the previous version, with the aluminum tweeters.  I can't see myself needing speakers for the rest of my life, unless something tragic, like a fire, happens. And for that I have insurance.  BTW, that's an old photo, the system has changed quite a bit since then.
> 
> Now, I just need to figure out where to scrape up a spare $500 for some Siemens & Halske CCa Gray plates...  And paying for them isn't even the hard part, FINDING them is even harder!


 

 what is your current amp for your speaker and what is your speaker cable.


----------



## toschek

I think I'm done with buying this family of tubes personally, I have backups of all the tubes I really like from this family now, so I'm waiting to start collecting tubes when the Schiit integrated amp comes out later this year.   In the meantime, I think I'm going to build a stereomour.
   
  So a recap, as far my favorites in this family of tubes.   I know there are ones I have not tried.
   
  1) Brimar CV2492 - I like this tube the best of all of the ones I have I think.   This one has the most rich presentation of all to me.   It sounds really good on prog rock, and anything expansive or recorded in a large space.   My wife and I were listening to Hesperion XXI earlier tonight with the Lyr as a pre-amp and I really appreciate how fully textured everything is.   Sounds great through our living room setup, even if it is just a HT system.
   
  2) Telefunken E88CC - This pair was the most expensive one I bought.  It's really good with large orchestral stuff and I think it excels with opera too.   I dig it's crispness on electronica too, especially 808 driven stuff.   Really strong tube for a lot of musical styles I think. 
   
  3) 65 JAN-CEP 6922 - This one is definitely next.   I have a JAN-CEP pair from the following year which I will put as 4) they are 7308s though.   I like both of these tubes a lot for their staging and dynamics, it is consistent I think from the 6922 to the 7308 JAN-CEP so I don't think you should kick yourself over 6922 availability.  Get a 7308, it's at least 95% of a 6922 pair and not impossible to find.   The 6922 is better for sure, but it's not the end of the world.
   
  5) Amperex A-Frame Dimple Getter - Really really enjoyable on Jazz music & Van Morrison.   I like it a lot on stuff like Peter Gabriel's Half Blood binaural recording from Society of Sound.   Especially "Downside Up".   That song was so emotionally charged on this tube that sometimes I flip 5 and 1 on this chart just because WOW.   I do always end up putting the Brimars back in though!
   
  I'll take pictures of all of these tubes so you'll know what to look for when shopping ebay later and update this post.   Happy hunting!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You have JHA 16s and Westone 4s?  Yeah, you're really hurting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 yes, right now I just ordered that toxic cable for my jh16.  love my jh16 and westone 4.  I can't sell this babies..
  oh, next summer, JHA have new version of jh16 that is better than old ones.  I think they call it "freqphase"
   
  Now, i'm looking into universal iems, like akg's and fit ear togo 334...but I'm trying forget about portable rig, and focusing on Lyr.
  I can't decide....LOL


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> what is your current amp for your speaker and what is your speaker cable.


 
   
   
  My current speaker amp is an NAD C375BEE.  My speaker cables are Synergistic Research, voiced specifically for B&W speakers, with active shielding.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> My current speaker amp is an NAD C375BEE.  My speaker cables are Synergistic Research, voiced specifically for B&W speakers, with active shielding.


 

 Cool!  I have McIntosh ma6900 and Cardas GR speaker cable.  I want to upgrade but again money issue. LOL sad


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Cool!  I have McIntosh ma6900 and Cardas GR speaker cable.  I want to upgrade but again money issue. LOL sad


 
   
   
  You don't like you mac?  I LOVE Macs!  I'm thinking, long term mind you, of getting a Mac tube preamp and a SS power amp.
   
  Macs!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You don't like you mac?  I LOVE Macs!  I'm thinking, long term mind you, of getting a Mac tube preamp and a SS power amp.
> 
> Macs!


 

 No, I love my McIntosh, I'm saying cable.  I want to upgrade the cable to "Clear Beyond" speaker cable.  I have interconnect cable, It's amazing how interconnect cable change the sound.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> No, I love my McIntosh, I'm saying cable.  I want to upgrade the cable to "Clear Beyond" speaker cable.  I have interconnect cable, It's amazing how interconnect cable change the sound.


 
   
   
  Ah.  Sorry, I misunderstood.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Ah.  Sorry, I misunderstood.


 

 It's all good!


----------



## BobJS

I FINALLY received my SEL Lorenz PCC88 tubes from Olga.  They sound great.  I bought 4 so I'll probably post a classified for 2 of them soon  ---- great tubes from Lithuania, without the Lithuania wait.....  (yes I repaid her)


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I FINALLY received my SEL Lorenz PCC88 tubes from Olga.  They sound great.  I bought 4 so I'll probably post a classified for 2 of them soon  ---- great tubes from Lithuania, without the Lithuania wait.....  (yes I repaid her)


 
   
  What do you think of them so far?  I really like them, they are not the famed Stuttgart tubes, but I think they are a good value and sound pretty nice!


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





toschek said:


> What do you think of them so far?  I really like them, they are not the famed Stuttgart tubes, but I think they are a good value and sound pretty nice!


 
   
  Couldn't of said it better myself.  Agreed!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Couldn't of said it better myself.  Agreed!


 
  +1


----------



## Sniperbombers

Question: im sure a majority of you here use the Bifrost, but my question goes as follows: For those who use the Lyr + Bifrost combination for PC, what USB wire/cable do you have/recommend?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> Question: im sure a majority of you here use the Bifrost, but my question goes as follows: For those who use the Lyr + Bifrost combination for PC, what USB wire/cable do you have/recommend?


 
   
  Doesn't make a difference, 1's and 0's are the same no-matter what cable you send them down, same goes for toslink cables. Don't be fooled into wasting your money on stuff like that.
   
  The only cable that could make a real difference will be the one between the Bifrost outputs and Lyr inputs, and of course your headphone cable.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> Question: im sure a majority of you here use the Bifrost, but my question goes as follows: For those who use the Lyr + Bifrost combination for PC, what USB wire/cable do you have/recommend?


 

http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-6ft-24AWG-Male-Cable/dp/B009GUNFSY  $4
   
  If you're going to spend $$ on cables, start with your preamp cables (from Bifrost to Lyr). Straight wire are a very good value for money cable but there are many options and there will be other opinions.
  Headphone cable upgrade will also reap rewards.
   
  Then get a decent power cord and power conditioner. 
  Then get a USB cable (I have not been able to taste the difference in the 4 I have bought and returned so the $4 amazon one suffices)


----------



## HK_sends

Everybody,
   
  Always remember, it's not the price of the tube...it's whether you enjoy the sound!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I know many people who are extremely happy with "lesser" tubes than the "almost unobtainium" CCa's or Lorenz 3-mica's.  I know everyone says they are the pinnacle but to be honest, I didnt care for the CCa's which is why I was so fanboyish about the Lorenz.
   
  Take my advice with a grain of salt or not, after spending over $3500-$4000 on tubes just for the Lyr (including CCa's and 3-Mica's), my current and favorite tubes cost $89 on Ebay.  (Amperex JAN 6922 - Orange Label, no globe).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Doesn't make a difference, 1's and 0's are the same no-matter what cable you send them down, same goes for toslink cables. Don't be fooled into wasting your money on stuff like that.
> 
> The only cable that could make a real difference will be the one between the Bifrost outputs and Lyr inputs, and of course your headphone cable.


 
  There are some arguments about that statement but I won't take sides.  All I can say is I've tried four different USB cables in a row A-D testing (including B & C) on the same exact setup and the truth is, I _do_ hear a difference; whether it's bit noise or outside interference, I don't know.  But I did hear a difference.  I tried two computer and two "audio grade" cables.  I'll list the brands after I get home.
   
  Truth is, YMMV.  Some people may hear a difference, some may not.  I do believe there are enough variations in the human body that create differences in perceived hearing.
   
  As usual, this is IMHO and YMMV...But that doesn't mean I'm not wrong...for me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> There are some arguments about that statement but I won't take sides.  All I can say is I've tried four different USB cables in a row A-D testing (including B & C) on the same exact setup and the truth is, I _do_ hear a difference; whether it's bit noise or outside interference, I don't know.  But I did hear a difference.  I tried two computer and two "audio grade" cables.  I'll list the brands after I get home.
> 
> Truth is, YMMV.  Some people may hear a difference, some may not.  I do believe there are enough variations in the human body that create differences in perceived hearing.
> 
> ...


 
  @Pooters and @EddieK ( for how i should attempt to change wires, and don't worry i ordered a toxic cable wire a while back for HD650's )
 Thanks for your honest opinions and thanks HK_Sends for your own personal belief in the system of wires/cables

 I believe the form of conductivity and all these other "minimal" factors will play a role, of course i do not know how big the differences may be since i dont own many USB 2.0 connections to see. 

 I hope to hear more on this topic; however, i have seen this debate go on for quite a while on these forums.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> @Pooters and @EddieK
> Thanks for your honest opinions and thanks HK_Sends for your own personal belief in the system of wires/cables
> 
> I believe the form of conductivity and all these other "minimal" factors will play a role, of course i do not know how big the differences may be since i dont own many USB 2.0 connections to see.
> ...


 
  I would say that if it does, we need to move it out of this thread and into the Sound Science forum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  We don't want the thread locked for going too off-topic...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

For well buolt, no nonesnse cables, of any kind, try Blue Jeans Cables:  http://www.bluejeanscable.com/index.htm .  They are really nice without busting the budget.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Everybody,
> 
> Always remember, it's not the price of the tube...it's whether you enjoy the sound!
> 
> ...


 
  So far, with my setup (Bifrost Lyr HE500s(jergpad mod) in order of preference is...
  1. Siemens CCa A frame
  2. RTC E188CC
  3. Lorenz 3 mica
  4. Miniwatt PQ.
  5. RCA Cleartop
  6. Amperex whitel label 7308's
  7. Most genuine NOS amperex's from the 60's
   
  The tubes above have their own areas of expertize but overall the CCa's with the right interconnects just sound all round fantastic. The RTC's have by far the best presentation though, very forward and an exceptional top end. CCa's are tough to beat on soundstage and imaging with the best bottom end of all tubes I've heard to date. The Miniwatt PQ's are very detailed and sharp, great mids and bass but imaging is less (not a priority for me as we're listening thru headphones). I want definition and presence more than anything else.
   
  Beware of Chinese/Taiwanese fakes. If you look on fleabay there are tons of them about. All junk but commanding top $.
   
  I'll be selling a pair of CCa A Frame shortly (as soon as I get to photo them) because I'm going to use that money for some balanced cables for speaker tap so look for them on the For Sale thread..


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> So far, with my setup (Bifrost Lyr HE500s(jergpad mod) in order of preference is...
> 1. Siemens CCa A frame
> 2. RTC E188CC
> 3. Lorenz 3 mica
> ...


 
   
  thats quite a nice collection there! sadly i have yet to hear most of them. I ordered a bulk of 10 RTC's *according to nelamvrs website* maybe i can match them all some how and hope to find a set that ends of working (which i hope doesnt break my headphones or amp in any way by doing this)

 I hope to hear more from you soon! I'll be giving more impressions of other tubes once i receive a pair from iamnothim ( sadly he went MIA somewhere in this world )
  
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> For well buolt, no nonesnse cables, of any kind, try Blue Jeans Cables:  http://www.bluejeanscable.com/index.htm .  They are really nice without busting the budget.


 
  Thanks Nelamvr, i will definitely take a look


----------



## nelamvr6

You mean Surplus Sales of Nebraska? I'm a little surprised you could get them to be that specific, usually they just have tube numbers and say they're "various brands". Have you got a link?


----------



## nelamvr6

Sitting here, listening to Porcupine Tree with the LCD-2s, thinking that these USN-CEPs are sounding so awesome! Should I just stop and enjoy, or try more tubes?


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You mean Surplus Sales of Nebraska? I'm a little surprised you could get them to be that specific, usually they just have tube numbers and say they're "various brands". Have you got a link?


 
  oh no i straight up went for the same thing you bought which said various brands and same code. They charged me 30 dollar shipping though which i found ridiculous.  but i mean i guess i can't complain seeing how i ordered 10 of them, but they did say they'll adjust the shipping, BUT THEY DIDNT! *flips table*


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Sitting here, listening to Porcupine Tree with the LCD-2s, thinking that these USN-CEPs are sounding so awesome! Should I just stop and enjoy, or try more tubes?


 
  Here's my philosphy on that...
   
  I enjoy experiencing different sound signatures and the prices of these 6922 preamp tubes is not going to go down anytime soon so, even if you pay a fair amount you should be able to enjoy or at least try them and then sell them on with little or no loss.
   
  Supply of the genuine quality old stock tubes is getting scarcer and the demand higher.


----------



## nelamvr6

W





sniperbombers said:


> oh no i straight up went for the same thing you bought which said various brands and same code. They charged me 30 dollar shipping though which i found ridiculous.  but i mean i guess i can't complain seeing how i ordered 10 of them, but they did say they'll adjust the shipping, BUT THEY DIDNT! *flips table*




What did you order, E188CCs? I don't remember what they charged me for shipping, but that seems pretty high...

Did they say you would be getting RTCs?


----------



## nelamvr6

eddiek997 said:


> Here's my philosphy on that...
> 
> I enjoy experiencing different sound signatures and the prices of these 6922 preamp tubes is not going to go down anytime soon so, even if you pay a fair amount you should be able to enjoy or at least try them and then sell them on with little or no loss.
> 
> Supply of the genuine quality old stock tubes is getting scarcer and the demand higher.




I concur, but that just makes me want to buy a couple more pairs of these tubes, cut my losses, relax and listen to music...

But hell, these are only the second set of tubes that I've auditioned, roll on I will!


----------



## HK_sends

Looks like Head-Fi's post editor just crapped out!  _*I guess it's back now (or my computer borked for a minute)...*_
   
  Referring to the earlier post about USB cables from a PC to a Bifrost and Lyr combo,
  I just checked and the two "audio-grade" USB cables were from here:
   
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00415A3XY/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1
   
  and here:
   
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005AWT9IM/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1
   
  The computer USB cables were non-brand types from Newegg that I had in my collection...They sounded good but about the same, not dry or warm.  Don't get me wrong, the music was nice but nothing really stood out.
   
  I found the Pangea Audio cable made the sound a bit dry and lean in the bass (it's silver coated copper) compared to the computer cables and the Audio Quest. I found the Audio Quest Forest cable to sound warmer and more full bodied (it's just copper) than any of the others.  I like warm so I stuck with the Audio Quest Forest.  I used Q-Audio interconnects between the Bifrost and the Lyr and a Q-Audio headphone cable for my LCD-2s.
   
  Again, I did hear a difference, but YMMV...and that's ok too... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> W
> What did you order, E188CCs? I don't remember what they charged me for shipping, but that seems pretty high...
> 
> Did they say you would be getting RTCs?


 
  i got the  6BZ7's just like you did because i wanted to test them myself. I'm outside of America so i feel like i got ripped. 


   


> HK_Sends
> 
> Looks like Head-Fi's post editor just crapped out! I just checked and the two "audio-grade" USB cables were from here:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00415A3XY/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and here:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005AWT9IM/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...


 
  Oh boy! just because you mentioned warmer i feel like i need to invest in the Audio Quests at a later date


----------



## HK_sends

My post editor started working again so I formatted the earlier post and expanded a little on my impression.
   
  In case you're interested...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Everybody,
> 
> Always remember, it's not the price of the tube...it's whether you enjoy the sound!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi,
  What's the difference between Amperex Orange Globe and Amperex Orange Label?  I looked at some images, saw that some had a globe picture on the glass (and in my limited experience the Amp. Orange Label has orange _colored_ text on the glass).
   
  Aside from that - the printing - how do the tubes differ? (the construction, the insides...)   Or is it the vintage (year it was made)?
   
   
   
  Thanks very much!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Everybody,
> 
> Always remember, it's not the price of the tube...it's whether you enjoy the sound!
> 
> ...


 

 give me your CCa and Lorenz 3mica.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

ilikepooters said:


> Doesn't make a difference, 1's and 0's are the same no-matter what cable you send them down, *same goes for toslink cables*. Don't be fooled into wasting your money on stuff like that.
> 
> The only cable that could make a real difference will be the one between the Bifrost outputs and Lyr inputs, and of course your headphone cable.




Glass toslink sound a lot better than their plastic counterparts to me. However glass toslink vs glass toslink or plastic vs plastic probably much less of a difference.

That's all, back to tubes


----------



## toschek

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Glass toslink sound a lot better than their plastic counterparts to me. However glass toslink vs glass toslink or plastic vs plastic probably much less of a difference.
> 
> That's all, back to tubes




We should probably start the Schiit Lyr - The Non-Tube Rolling Thread to talk about Lyr mods/accessories/other


----------



## ChevyVan

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Doesn't make a difference, 1's and 0's are the same no-matter what cable you send them down, same goes for toslink cables. Don't be fooled into wasting your money on stuff like that.
> 
> The only cable that could make a real difference will be the one between the Bifrost outputs and Lyr inputs, and of course your headphone cable.


 
   
   
  What are thoughts (and anyone else's ...) on the _length_ of the USB cable? I don't mean crazy-long - just upwards of, say, 12 feet (from computer to DAC) - is 12 ft. a distance to be concerned about for sacrificing sound-quality?  (assuming of course that it _sounds_ fine)
   
  Thank you.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

toschek said:


> We should probably start the Schiit Lyr - The Non-Tube Rolling Thread to talk about Lyr mods/accessories/other




Very true, thread would probably be a good bit shorter if there was a thread like that from the Beginning


----------



## toschek

Yes, actually you don't want to exceed the spec limits for usb 2.0 which I believe is somewhere around 15 feet without using a powered hub. You can daisy chain up to 5 hubs this way but you will probably definitely sacrifice quality due to jitter and other electrical signal degradation from doing this. How much? I don't know, and I am not keen to find out. I feel like the shortest interconnect possible is the best, almost always.


----------



## Sniperbombers

I feel like i should not have mentioned anything about wires. *Guilt Trip*

 Anyways if you guys did make a forum post about that, i'd be glad to subscribe and read on what peoples thoughts are.

 Sooo.. back to tube rolling


----------



## nelamvr6

Don't \feel so guilty!  We not that hard assed here!


----------



## toschek

Haha, I'm tempted to actually start the thread now. You really should not feel bad about asking questions, I don't think anyone in this thread is that kind of hard ass comment police. I mean, don't start posting cat pictures or w/e but no one has ever beat me down for asking a slightly OT question. Thread would be pretty dull without some digressions. 

Back on topic, the Brimars I got are getting BETTER with burn in. 

And slightly off topic again. Does anyone here know a place you can take tubes AFTER you buy them to be cryoed? I love these Brimars so much that I was thinking about getting them cryo treated so they'd last a little longer.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Yes, actually you don't want to exceed the spec limits for usb 2.0 which I believe is somewhere around 15 feet without using a powered hub. You can daisy chain up to 5 hubs this way but you will probably definitely sacrifice quality due to jitter and other electrical signal degradation from doing this. How much? I don't know, and I am not keen to find out. I feel like the shortest interconnect possible is the best, almost always.


 
   
  Thank you, I didn't know about the spec limit of 15 feet. Most always, the "standard" (short") 18" - 24" cable is plenty-- but just happened to run into a scenario last night where 6 or 8 feet would have done the trick.


----------



## velvetx

Just got the Lyr and I have already spent quite a bit of money on tubes.  Some of them are expensive and reading through this post I feel like the good deals were like years ago.


----------



## gmahler2u

what is the difference between these tubes?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Siemens-Halske-CCa-E88CC-6922-Grey-Shield-MATCHED-PAIR-AMPLITREX-TESTED-/290868899659?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D6067740235835753701%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D290868899659%26
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/230899951484?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





velvetx said:


> Just got the Lyr and I have already spent quite a bit of money on tubes.  Some of them are expensive and reading through this post I feel like the good deals were like years ago.


 
   
   
  There bare still good deals to be had, but you have to hunt a little harder now a days.  And who knows, by experimentation, you could discover the next flavor of the month!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> i got the  6BZ7's just like you did because i wanted to test them myself. I'm outside of America so i feel like i got ripped.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh boy! just because you mentioned warmer i feel like i need to invest in the Audio Quests at a later date


 
   
   
  Cool!  Let me know how they work out!  I got some RCA 6BZ7s, and as far as I can tell they're made in '67.  They look brand new!


----------



## BobJS

I don't doubt anyone hears what they claim to hear ..... just wondering about the physics behind it.  I was originally a cable (of any kind) skeptic until I heard the (granted subtle) differences myself and was then able to justify to some degree physically what might be going on (skin effects, varying frequency filtering, etc) with wires carrying (analog) audio signals.   Digital signals, on the other hand, have already been pointed out to be either 0 or 1 ..... so if there's a difference, what's going on?  I'm willing to entertain the notion that USB cables of varying construction might alter the timing (of high vs low frequency pulses), or vary the threshhold of exactly where in time the 0 or 1 is recognized --- leading to jitter and consequently a difference in sound.  TOSlink I'm more at loss to understand ..... poor optical quality leading to dropped bits?  Wouldn't this just lead to a dropout of sound?   Very confusing.
   
   
  Anyway, how 'BOUT those  Lithuanian SEL LORENZ tubes !!!?!  Not too shabby!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

toschek- you might shoot an email to tubedepot they use a cryo technique called black sable. I don't know if the do it in house or what but you could ask. Here is the info http://www.tubedepot.com/bsct.html

Gmahler2u- That is the most sought after S&H Cca type, the other is a little different build with an a-frame and no sheild(by the looks of it). I had a pcc88 version from the sixties that looked just like it and the cca with the chrome sheild(70s). You really can't go wrong with either of the pairs but I would have to give it to the cca just for the insane sound stage.

Bobjs- my understanding as far as the toslink is that since is an optical signal, the glass being more reflective than the plastic allows the signal to be faster


----------



## rdaneel

Bob, the theory i have heard on USB/digital coax cables is that digital signals do not degrade in the way that analog ones do, at least in the ways relevant to cables. Digital conveys the 1s and 0s electrically, so any degradation could result not only in dropped data (there is no error correction) or worse yet, a 1 being recognized as a 0. So the theory goes that precise delivery of the signal, without degradation or timing disruption, is critical. Just because the music plays doesn't mean that there are not dropped or incorrect bits. I cant vouch for that theory, but it is what i understand. I believe it enough to have picked up a Wyreworld Starlight USB cable for my Squeezebox to DAC connection, but I have no interest in spending three (or four!) figures on a USB cable...


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> No, I love my McIntosh, I'm saying cable.  I want to upgrade the cable to "Clear Beyond" speaker cable.  I have interconnect cable, It's amazing how interconnect cable change the sound.


 
   
  http://www.teoaudio.com/about.php


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Doesn't make a difference, 1's and 0's are the same no-matter what cable you send them down, same goes for toslink cables. Don't be fooled into wasting your money on stuff like that.
> 
> The only cable that could make a real difference will be the one between the Bifrost outputs and Lyr inputs, and of course your headphone cable.


 
   
  I suppose it would all make sense if they always arrived in the correct order with checksum and resend on failure. But that doesn't happen.
   
  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticrevive2/1.html


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Everybody,
> 
> Always remember, it's not the price of the tube...it's whether you enjoy the sound!
> 
> ...


 
   


 Those have been going for even less lately and I've been passing them over. Mostly due to Joe's tube lore, which I've been using as a starting guide. I'm starting to see you just have to try them. *shrug*


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Glass toslink sound a lot better than their plastic counterparts to me. However glass toslink vs glass toslink or plastic vs plastic probably much less of a difference.
> 
> That's all, back to tubes


 

 My Bifrost will jump up (you can hear a relay switch) to 192khz when using the Windows 7 tests when using cheapo plastic rocketfish 3.3' cable from Future Shop. Acoustic glass cabled ordered from computer site, same length.... nope.. won't do it.  So go figure. I didn't note any acoustical difference as I returned the rocket fish after ordering the glass cable. I never got a chance to A/B.  Starting to wonder if I should run back to Future Shop and snag that there cable back. 
   
  Either that or the plastic cable was so bad that it was triggering the low band circuit, which 32Khz tests will do as well. All assumptions on my part. Schiit didn't document their toslink implementation.


----------



## NightFlight

Dragged my rig to work today and forgot the USB cable I had been using. I bummed one from another department and now I'm lamenting the one I had at home. There are some other variables but I have to wonder. I mean - its really el-cheapo but well broken in. It's blue. *shrug*


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I suppose it would all make sense if they always arrived in the correct order with checksum and resend on failure. But that doesn't happen.
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticrevive2/1.html


 
  The computer decides what order the 1's and 0's are sent in, if they arrive in the wrong order then it's the computers fault, not the cable.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Dragged my rig to work today and forgot the USB cable I had been using. I bummed one from another department and now I'm lamenting the one I had at home. There are some other variables but I have to wonder. I mean - its really el-cheapo but well broken in. It's blue. *shrug*


 
   
  Meh, it's the tubes still breaking in, because its smoothing out again. Maybe its me but lately I've found I can't tolerate moderate volumes until the hardware has been on for +5hrs. Has to be young tubes w less than 50hrs.


----------



## velvetx

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> For well buolt, no nonesnse cables, of any kind, try Blue Jeans Cables:  http://www.bluejeanscable.com/index.htm .  They are really nice without busting the budget.


 

 Agreed.  I have my speakers and subwoofer setup connected to my receiver and have no complaints.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> The computer decides what order the 1's and 0's are sent in, if they arrive in the wrong order then it's the computers fault, not the cable.


 
   
  I believe both are true but the computer is more likely than the other. But I'm willing to bet you dismissed the reference as soon as you saw 6moons in the link reference? *poke* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm mostly in the it-doesn't-matter-when-its-in-the-digital-domain camp. You can keep your $200 HDMI cable, my $5 one works just fine.
   
  I could not get my MBP/WindowsXP to deliver USB data correctly today. It would clip every random amount of seconds between 1-2 minutes. Really annoying. Seems to be fine on the OSX side with songbird... but I prefer foobar. I (re)installed the Schiit USB driver and did updates... no luck.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> The computer decides what order the 1's and 0's are sent in, if they arrive in the wrong order then it's the computers fault, not the cable.


 
  My understanding is that if your dac is asynchronous then the dac takes charge. Hence the requirement for drivers.


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> My understanding is that if your dac is asynchronous then the dac takes charge. Hence the requirement for drivers.


 
   
  Drivers are needed for 24/192 DACs, not because they are asynchronous.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> Drivers are needed for 24/192 DACs, not because they are asynchronous.


 
   
  So if you have a 16/96 async Dac what tells the CPU to relinquish control to a Dac and then controls the bit flow if it's not a driver?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

And to confuse things more my Mac syncs 24/192 with my gungnir via USB without a driver


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> And to confuse things more my Mac syncs 24/192 with my gungnir via USB without a driver


 
   
  It has a driver, it's just called a kernel extension instead. And the OS is updated often. If the OS were out of date with the hardware requirements, a driver would be required in addition to the existing - just like windows xp.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Cool, thanks for the answer!


----------



## Sniperbombers

Soooo Good news... i ordered Electro Harmonix ecc88 tubes. 
           Bad news... i wasted money to get tubes
            Average news... I hate this !

 Hopefully once i receive it i'll be able to give off some impressions of these.


----------



## gmahler2u

6688 tubes any familiar with this kind of tubes?  am I ok to use the tube with the Lyr?
   
  I got it because cheap and it ends with 88.
   
  Thanks


----------



## toschek

Nah, it is a pentode. Don't think it'll work man, sorry.


----------



## toschek

Here's a list of the ones I know will work: 6922, 6DJ8, ECC88, E88CC, E188CC, E288CC, PCC88, 7DJ8, PCC189, CCa, 7308, CV2492, CV2493, 6N1P, 6N23P, 6N23P-EB, 6BZ7 and 6BQ7A. 

There might be some that I missed. 

I don't know if the author of the thread could add this list to the first post?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

gmahler2u said:


> +1




+2 Although I suspect they will improve with some burn-in time.


----------



## gmahler2u

AHhhhhhhh... man...another waste time.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nelamvr6 said:


> Sitting here, listening to Porcupine Tree with the LCD-2s, thinking that these USN-CEPs are sounding so awesome! Should I just stop and enjoy, or try more tubes?




Well, the USN-CEP's are my favorites so far also, but it hasn't stopped me from buying more tubes (and amps too for that matter)! 25 pairs of tubes so far, and still counting . . .


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Well, the USN-CEP's are my favorites so far also, but it hasn't stopped me from buying more tubes (and amps too for that matter)! 25 pairs of tubes so far, and still counting . . .


 
   
   
  Yikes!  
   
  Well, I think I'm gonna listen to the tubes that I have, pick a favorite, and then stop.
   
  I know, famous last words...


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Yikes!
> 
> Well, I think I'm gonna listen to the tubes that I have, pick a favorite, and then stop.
> 
> I know, famous last words...


 

 i feel your pain. especially as a student. makes me sad.


----------



## ilikepooters

Don't forget peeps, if you want to spend even more money, you can get all your expensive tubes cryo treated to change the sound. Might turn an "almost" epic tube into an epic one.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Don't forget peeps, if you want to spend even more money, you can get all your expensive tubes cryo treated to change the sound. Might turn an "almost" epic tube into an epic one.


 
  My understanding is cryo-treated tubes aren't necessarily suppose to sound any different,
  they're just suppose to last longer.
   
  And IME, cryo-treated tubes sound no different. FWIW.


----------



## gmahler2u

Siemens E188cc is coming, now bank is broke.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Siemens E188cc is coming, now bank is broke.


 
   
   
  Awesome!  I look forward to your impressions.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Don't forget peeps, if you want to spend even more money, you can get all your expensive tubes cryo treated to change the sound. Might turn an "almost" epic tube into an epic one.


 

 Good idea, I like epic. Maybe I should get the whole Lyr amp cryo treated


----------



## toschek

Yeah, it's only to increase longevity, I have never heard of cryo altering the sound.  It makes them last longer by pre-stressing the metals/glass so that the heat/cooling cycles of normal tube use will not stress them and reduce lifespan.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Yeah, it's only to increase longevity, I have never heard of cryo altering the sound.  It makes them last longer by pre-stressing the metals/glass so that the heat/cooling cycles of normal tube use will not stress them and reduce lifespan.


 
   
  But there will always be someone who will claim audible differences because they spent mega-bucks getting it done.


----------



## bareyb

Does anyone ever stray in here and tell you guys you are just "kidding yourselves" and that none of this matters and that you really only need 250wW to drive headphones to their fullest?" What do you say to these Turkeys?


----------



## OldSkool

Oh, on a serious note....
   
  Two days ago, I received a replacement pair of Socket Savers from Tubemonger. The quality is excellent in this latest version. Gold sockets, sturdy construction. I am digging the way the tubes sit up higher now and have noticed no adverse change to the SQ. I have only rolled once with them ('67 Amperex OG's out, '67 Mullard CV2493's in) but both socket savers stayed in while the tubes were removed. Nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  IMO, these are highly recommended.


----------



## toschek

bareyb said:


> Does anyone ever stray in here and tell you guys you are just "kidding yourselves" and that none of this matters and that you really only need 250wW to drive headphones to their fullest?" What do you say to these Turkeys?




I'd say try a pair of LCD 2s or HE-6 at 250mW and then tell me that.


----------



## bareyb

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I'd say try a pair of LCD 2s or HE-6 at 250mW and then tell me that.


 
  Thank you. Just wanted to make sure I didn't wake up in a parallel universe.  Rant over...


----------



## ilikepooters

Bought a nice matched pair of Voshkods
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300827919569?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  Anyone have experience with these? The gold grids make any difference? What sort of sound signature can i expect?
   
  Just trying out cheap tubes so i don't waste much money


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Bought a nice matched pair of Voshkods
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300827919569?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> ...


 

 You would have to compare and contrast with what you have and see if you like it. Nothing wrong with picking them up to see what you get from them. Just remember the full break-in time before committing to what you think that difference is. The only thing I know without having tried a 6N1P is that if you are looking for 'lush' you are perhaps going in the wrong direction. That's purely conjecture on my part... reading this thread and other sources.


----------



## HK_sends

Hey everybody,
   
  I'm sorry I haven't responded to your posts the last couple of days but I have been going through some preps for an upcoming medical procedure.  It looks like I'll be away from the forums for a bit.
   
  I'll post again when I can...
   
  Cheers to all!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> I'm sorry I haven't responded to your posts the last couple of days but I have been going through some preps for an upcoming medical procedure.  It looks like I'll be away from the forums for a bit.
> 
> ...


 
  Speedy recovery HK!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Yeah get well soon!


----------



## toschek

Get well!


----------



## OldSkool

Take care, my friend.


----------



## gmahler2u

yeah..take care man!


----------



## NightFlight

See you when you get back. Here's to the tunes during your recovery.


----------



## HK_sends

Thanks guys, it really means a lot! .
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## eddiek997

Good Luck H.K.
   
  Wish you a speedy recovery ...
   
  Have your wife bring your portable rig to the hospital.....


----------



## nelamvr6

Sending you positive thoughts HK!


----------



## Sniperbombers

Hey get well soon HK!


----------



## Flisker

Hi guys,
   
  I would like to ask you here too, about my dilemma. I have still about 2-3days to decide whether to buy Lyr or WA6 as my first "decent" amp.
   
  I'll be using it with HD650/HE-400/SR225i/SRH940 and for future I'am planning LCD-2/HE-500/Denon AH-7100.
   
  Not considering price of products. Now I like HD650 most so ... I'am concerned mainly about performance of this headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Hope it's not too much offtopic here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks, Flisker
   
  ps: Love the looks of black WA6


----------



## NightFlight

Well, this thread is kind of dedicated to the Lyr. 
   
  Its my first proper headphone amp. The price makes it entry level, IMHO. I don't know the Woo products, but I do like that they use point to point circuitry. I jumped in with headphones and Amp at the same time so costs were a major factor for me. I really do like the versatility of the Lyr's tube options. The Lyr itself with my HD800's sounds very different with every tube. So this means the headphones and the amp are very transparent. Beware, you can sink a fortune in tubes into the Lyr if feel the need.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Well, this thread is kind of dedicated to the Lyr.
> 
> Its my first proper headphone amp. The price makes it entry level, IMHO. I don't know the Woo products, but I do like that they use point to point circuitry. I jumped in with headphones and Amp at the same time so costs were a major factor for me. I really do like the versatility of the Lyr's tube options. The Lyr itself with my HD800's sounds very different with every tube. So this means the headphones and the amp are very transparent. Beware, you can sink a fortune in tubes into the Lyr if feel the need.


 

 +1


----------



## toschek

Lyr is a very good middle entry level amp, you'd have to spend at least 3x for the same level of price/performance. I think you'll be very happy with it vs. the WA6. Personally Woo stuff only gets interesting to me at the level of a WA22 or so (4x more than a Lyr after tube upgrades). 

For $600 (including a set of good quality NOS tubes) the Lyr will last you a very long time, at least until you consider going balanced or buying an integrated so you can run efficient speakers too. 

I would suggest something a little "airy" or "bright" like Telefunken/Siemens/Lorenz for HD650s, it will really help lift the so-called "veil". The massive headroom afforded by the Lyr will open the 650s up like you never imagined possible, they scale wonderfully with more juice; just be careful with that volume dial, it is no joke.


----------



## VortexBlast

OK it's not very much the right place to say this but I have a problem with my Lyr and it's not the tubes. It's the volume knob. When I turned it, I noticed there was some play and was a bit loose (it didn't exhibit this before) then suddenly, the volume knob came off. Any chance to put it back on? I haven't found a way yet.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





vortexblast said:


> OK it's not very much the right place to say this but I have a problem with my Lyr and it's not the tubes. It's the volume knob. When I turned it, I noticed there was some play and was a bit loose (it didn't exhibit this before) then suddenly, the volume knob came off. Any chance to put it back on? I haven't found a way yet.


 
   
  If you look at the knob, there is a threaded circle with a small nut inside.  I think you might be able to place the knob back onto the post and use a jeweler's screwdriver with a longish bit to reattach it.  
   
   

   
   
  If that doesn't work, then definitely email them and they'll take care of you.   The support from Jason & Co is amazing.   He responded to a tube compatibility question at 6:30 this morning for me ... on a saturday, and even a follow up question.   I am definitely on the hook for the statement amp now, I can't wait to see what they do with it.   I'm actually shopping Zu speakers at this moment so I'm prepared for what I am expecting to be the best affordable integrated hybrid possible.   I am so in the tank for Schiit (haha).


----------



## VortexBlast

toschek said:


> If you look at the knob, there is a threaded circle with a small nut inside.  I think you might be able to place the knob back onto the post and use a jeweler's screwdriver with a longish bit to reattach it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I will look into it later on because I'm away right but I think that the nut is split in half. One is in that hole, the other is on the metal bit. maybe I should just contact Schiit straight away.
I will post some pics later on.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

vortexblast said:


> OK it's not very much the right place to say this but I have a problem with my Lyr and it's not the tubes. It's the volume knob. When I turned it, I noticed there was some play and was a bit loose (it didn't exhibit this before) then suddenly, the volume knob came off. Any chance to put it back on? I haven't found a way yet.




Use a 1.5 size metric Allen wrench, it's an easy fix. If you run into any issue pm me


----------



## VortexBlast

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Use a 1.5 size metric Allen wrench, it's an easy fix. If you run into any issue pm me


 
  I don't have a 1.5 Allen Wrench right now so I did a temporary fix that works if I don't turn the knob too fast. BTW, the bolt is broken into two halves.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toschek said:


> If you look at the knob, there is a threaded circle with a small nut inside.  I think you might be able to place the knob back onto the post and use a jeweler's screwdriver with a longish bit to reattach it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A flashlight will reveal that you need a small hex wrench in there. Clockwise is tighter (only mention this because to match the level of the question). If you don't have a set, get one... you'll use them again somewhere I'm sure.
   
  I emailed support and got a response from Jason pretty quick. He's obviously got the support email on his phone.   If you haven't already email support to get the exact size of hex you'll need... and then report back here.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





vortexblast said:


> I don't have a 1.5 Allen Wrench right now so I did a temporary fix that works if I don't turn the knob too fast. BTW, the bolt is broken into two halves.


 
   
  If you can, just use it without the knob until fixed. I usually set mine slightly higher than listening levels and regulate with Foobar anyhow. Also, if you mean the bolt under the knob is split... that is the volume pot post. They are split to take tension of a knob in a lot of cases.


----------



## NightFlight

Comparing some Siemens A6 against Amperex '67 OGs
   
  Well I won a pair of Amperex '67 OGs about a week ago ($15). I spent an hour using 0000 steel wool wrapped around a q-tip cleaning the pins. You can use saran wrap around the tube to stop wear on the label while cleaning. It worked out well enough. Compressed air to get rid of the wool dust. There was plenty left on the work surface when done. If you use this method, be certain to get rid of the dust. I also recommend a mask. I didn't use one, but I found so much wool dust after.. even stuck to the outside of my HPs. Compressed air again saved the day.  It might be better to use high grit paper after all... *sigh*  Thinking out loud here.... I'm getting rid of the wool. I don't like small metal fibers floating around.
   
  ***
  The OGs... These were pulls so, they have some random amount of time on them. They've been in for an hour or so. Fantastic mid detail. Fantastic mid bass punch. Just nails it. 
  They are much smoother than the Siemens E88CCs I've been breaking in. The OGs are hellishly fun and I can see why people like them. I like them too!  
   
  The downside to the OGs appear to be lacking in sound stage and space. Hoping it shows up with time but I'm not holding out much hope. A clear example is that I can listen to some Police albums and enjoy them with the OGs, but the Siemens always make me switch to something else.  The Siemens are harsh in the highs but do everything else well. Bit more muddy in the mids but they have a much wider soundstage.


----------



## Flisker

Thx guys for some more info on Lyr


----------



## Sniperbombers

Thanks Iamnothim - You will be missed  - hope to give you guys my own impressions on these babies soon.


----------



## toschek

What happened to Iamnothim anyway?  I miss that guy.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





toschek said:


> What happened to Iamnothim anyway?  I miss that guy.


 

 he got banned.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> he got banned.


 
  He banned himself because he couldn't understand arbitrary rules.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> he got banned.


 
   
  I I think Iamnothim left his email address somewhere in this thread or the other Schiit thread.
  yes, miss that son of gun!!!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I I think Iamnothim left his email address somewhere in this thread or the other Schiit thread.
> yes, miss that son of gun!!!


 
  His eMail was purged, sadly.


----------



## toschek

Bummer.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> he got banned.


 
   

 No, he self-banned. Pre-emptive strike I believe. He posted his email in this thread, but it got deleted that day. Anyone have it?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> He banned himself because he couldn't understand arbitrary rules.


 

 What, like.. don't piss of the admin?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> Thanks Iamnothim - You will be missed  - hope to give you guys my own impressions on these babies soon.


 
   
   
  What year are the OGs? Please rotate 1/2 turn left.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> What, like.. don't piss of the admin?


 
  Sure, something along those lines.
   
  You have to experience that type of phenomenon to understand.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> What year are the OGs? Please rotate 1/2 turn left.


 

  And those are some nice clean looking tubes!


----------



## gmahler2u

Maybe Iamnothim comeback with different name? LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  with IamSothim?


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> What year are the OGs? Please rotate 1/2 turn left.


 
  I believe it says 7 50  // GAC 7H1 - sadly i don't entirely know how to read these numbers and letters properly so hopefully you know where these are located.

 If any of you guys want to keep in contact with him however do send a private message if you wish. I recently just talked to him so everything's been going well with him.


----------



## Lord Soth

Dear HK,
   
  I wish you a speedy recovery!
   
  p.S. I still need someone to take care of my Mansion.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I I think Iamnothim left his email address somewhere in this thread or the other Schiit thread.
> yes, miss that son of gun!!!


 
  Yeah, I'll miss him too.
   
  From time to time, tube rollers like him help to rejuvenate this thread!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hi lyr people 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, burning in some 6N23P-EV tubes (Reflector brand) i bought a few weeks ago, i don't have a lyr, but i have a WA2 and since the WA2 threads don't discuss 6922/E88CC tubes much, i've been checking this thread out lately.
   
  anyways, i wanted to say, even at just under 20 hours burn in, i'm very impressed by these tubes. they sound just as good as my more expensive JAN-Sylvania 7308,  Great tube for the price!!  can't wait to hear what they'll sound like when they're fully burned in. as of now, i'm really liking their bass and overall presentation, i almost mistaked my T1's bass for that of the dt 990s, tons of punch, its awesome!
   
  i can see this tube being really good for LCD-2 or HD 650s too!


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> I believe it says 7 50  // GAC 7H1 - sadly i don't entirely know how to read these numbers and letters properly so hopefully you know where these are located.
> 
> If any of you guys want to keep in contact with him however do send a private message if you wish. I recently just talked to him so everything's been going well with him.


 
   
  The OGs are easy. That's 67, 50th week.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hi lyr people
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I found them a little narrow, but yea the PUNCH!


----------



## NightFlight

Got Olgas Lorenz SELs just now. Yehaw, that was fast.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Maybe Iamnothim comeback with different name? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  SWIM


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Got Olgas Lorenz SELs just now. Yehaw, that was fast.


 

 is that you second set?


----------



## willard

I recently ordered a Lyr to power an Audeze LCD2 I was evaluating for purchase. I ordered it with the alternate JJ tubes the Schiit company offered instead of the standard GE tubes, as a web reviewer stated the JJ's sounded clearer, which sounded good to me. The Lyr with the JJ tubes drove the Audeze LCD2 headphones nicely. The LCD2 also sounded fairly good from the headphone jack of the Marantz 5004 CD player that was feeding signal to the Lyr. Then I tried plugging in my previous favorite, my Sennheiser 595 headphones. For some reason, they sounded thin in bass and exaggerated in the treble end. The Sennheisers sounded just fine through the Marantz headphone jack.
  I contacted Schiit about this, and said I'd like to return the Lyr, as I didn't want an amp that was only good for one headphone. Jason at Schiit was very nice about it, and later said he could not figure out why the Sennheisers sounded like they did. I had a few audiophile friends over during my evaluation and they confirmed my impressions, so it wasn't just me. I don't know what was going on, and hated to return what seemed a very nice and well rated amp. But didn't want the return period to expire while I tried to figure out the reason for the problem.
  The LCD2 is shown as a 60 ohm impedence, while the 595 is shown as 50 ohms. Though not much of a difference, maybe that was the issue?
  Or maybe the reason the the JJ tubes sounded clearer was that they boosted the highs while thinning the bass? Maybe the 595's exaggerated the effect?
  I don't know the reason, and perhaps it's obvious I am not very experienced in different headphone amps. I am now very reluctant to mail order another amp without being able to listen first, with both headphones. I understand there are headphone meets I could attend, and will be on the lookout for these. Ended up buying an LCD3, and would like a nice amp to let it sing. But am leery to buy anything until I figure this out.
  Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. There may be a simple reason that I'm just not aware of.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> is that you second set?


 
   
  No, I've never heard them. But I grabbed 4 just in case.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





willard said:


> I recently ordered a Lyr to power an Audeze LCD2 I was evaluating for purchase. I ordered it with the alternate JJ tubes the Schiit company offered instead of the standard GE tubes, as a web reviewer stated the JJ's sounded clearer, which sounded good to me. The Lyr with the JJ tubes drove the Audeze LCD2 headphones nicely. The LCD2 also sounded fairly good from the headphone jack of the Marantz 5004 CD player that was feeding signal to the Lyr. Then I tried plugging in my previous favorite, my Sennheiser 595 headphones. For some reason, they sounded thin in bass and exaggerated in the treble end. The Sennheisers sounded just fine through the Marantz headphone jack.
> I contacted Schiit about this, and said I'd like to return the Lyr, as I didn't want an amp that was only good for one headphone. Jason at Schiit was very nice about it, and later said he could not figure out why the Sennheisers sounded like they did. I had a few audiophile friends over during my evaluation and they confirmed my impressions, so it wasn't just me. I don't know what was going on, and hated to return what seemed a very nice and well rated amp. But didn't want the return period to expire while I tried to figure out the reason for the problem.
> The LCD2 is shown as a 60 ohm impedence, while the 595 is shown as 50 ohms. Though not much of a difference, maybe that was the issue?
> Or maybe the reason the the JJ tubes sounded clearer was that they boosted the highs while thinning the bass? Maybe the 595's exaggerated the effect?
> ...


 
  The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is to ensure the 1/4 headphone jack on your 595's is fully seated and getting good contact with the new jack. Maybe some contact cleaner can help. Other than that, I don't know.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Willard reading through post I couldn't help think the jj are the culprit. I got the jjs with my lyr and with the cans I had (lcd2,k701) the tubes made them sound bass light with extended highs. I wasn't till I started rolling that I could appreciate the lyr. That being said even with some of the best tubes for the lcd3 the mjolnir is hard to beat


----------



## MattTCG

Hey guys..thanks for all the great info here. And very best to dk on getting well.
   
  Question...I have one tube saver, purchased from tubemonger and the other has gone missing. I'd rather not spend the money at tubemonger as they are pricey there. Is there another source for these that's bit more economical? 
   
  thanks...


----------



## NightFlight

So, my initial impression of the PCC88's.
   
  Expansive. Controlled. Definitive.  Not bass heavy, or light. Neutral. Great space and imaging. 
   
  Light on the gain however. I have to put the volume pot into the 'fear' zone with the HD800s. When in this zone I always think some sax or guitar will suddenly come out of nowhere and rip my head off. 
   
  Oh well. Still breaking in.


----------



## lugnut

How long did it take to receive the Lorenz from Lithuania ?   Thanks


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





lugnut said:


> How long did it take to receive the Lorenz from Lithuania ?   Thanks


 
  It varies.  My experience seems to be about the longest at about 6 weeks


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Hey guys..thanks for all the great info here. And very best to dk on getting well.
> 
> Question...I have one tube saver, purchased from tubemonger and the other has gone missing. I'd rather not spend the money at tubemonger as they are pricey there. Is there another source for these that's bit more economical?
> 
> thanks...


 
  The NOVIB's are all $25 from what I've found.
   
  But eBay eBay is chalk full of 'em.


----------



## rdaneel

I picked up some of the socket savers from ebay.  They shipped from Shenzen, China, but arrived in less than a week - I was very impressed.  The China Post delivery went by air to NYC, which is pretty close to me.
   
   
  I wouldn't recommend them, though, if you actually change tubes often.  The savers fit so tightly that I really had to plead with the tube pins to get them into the savers.  I cannot imagine that the saver will actually stay in the socket when I go to remove the tube.  They provide some height for the tube, which I think looks nice, but not much other than that.  For only $6, though, I'm not sure what I could expect.  That's $6 INCLUDING SHIPPING TO MY DOOR FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PLANET VIA A JUMBO JET AND TRUCK!


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





lugnut said:


> How long did it take to receive the Lorenz from Lithuania ?   Thanks


 

 Mine took 2 weeks exactly.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Mine took 2 weeks exactly.


 
  actually by some chance may i get a link to this seller ?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> actually by some chance may i get a link to this seller ?


 
eBay


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





lugnut said:


> How long did it take to receive the Lorenz from Lithuania ?   Thanks


 
   
  I paid for mine on the 2nd of March. I received them on the 11th. So that was technically only 5 business days. I lucked out I believe.
   
  Got my UltraSonic RX dampners today. I have officially received everything I ordered over the last few weeks. I'm officially broke too though.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> eBay


 
  i was actually expecting that to have been a troll comment since all it said was ebay,, "until i clicked the link of course"

 Thanks for that might i add. But way out of my budget range =/


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> i was actually expecting that to have been a troll comment since all it said was ebay,, "until i clicked the link of course"
> 
> Thanks for that might i add. But way out of my budget range =/


 
  Hey! I can be nice sometimes.


----------



## ilikepooters

I've ordered a pair of the Lorenz.
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-NOS-LORENZ-SEL-TUBES-MTCH-2PCS-/390553653702?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5aeecfd1c6
   
  Only a couple pairs left now.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I've ordered a pair of the Lorenz.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-NOS-LORENZ-SEL-TUBES-MTCH-2PCS-/390553653702?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5aeecfd1c6
> 
> Only a couple pairs left now.


 
   
  There'll be more ....  I predict.   I find them very nice for the money.


----------



## MattTCG

Hey guys...what do you think of tube dampeners? Do they make any difference? Or just for looks?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Hey guys...what do you think of tube dampeners? Do they make any difference? Or just for looks?


 
  They can be detrimental to the SQ, but they can also clean up noise.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> It varies.  My experience seems to be about the longest at about 6 weeks


 
   
  I got the first set I ordered in two weeks, the second set took four.  I think Olga (ebay seller) has been on this thread stating that she had some problems shipping them out recently, but they're being sent more quickly now (?).   Anyway, they will eventually show up.  Some countries take longer than others.
   
  They are pretty good tubes for the price.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Hey guys...what do you think of tube dampeners? Do they make any difference? Or just for looks?


 
   
  IMO they do make a difference, especially in imaging & staging.  I haven't noticed any compromises in SQ, but perhaps my middle-aged ears are not that good.


----------



## MattTCG

Anyone have a set of tube savers to sell for a reasonable price? I have a nice one from tubemonger but somehow lost the second one. PM me if you have one or a pair. Also looking for a set of tube dampeners. 
   
  Thanks...


----------



## toschek

These tube dampers are pretty great, seems like everyone here uses them too:  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm 
   
  You want the UltraSonic Rx-9 for the Lyr tubes


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Anyone have a set of tube savers to sell for a reasonable price? I have a nice one from tubemonger but somehow lost the second one. PM me if you have one or a pair. Also looking for a set of tube dampeners.
> 
> Thanks...


 
  i technically got an extra socket saver... Problem is the shipping ordeal =/ other than that id love to sell it. 

 I am also looking for a set of tube dampners


----------



## toschek

Can someone recommend a tube power amp or integrated under $1k to use with the Lyr as preamp?   This will be powering very efficient speakers (96dB+).
   
  All of these Chinese made amps on ebay look cool (Bowei, Music Angel) but I don't know what is and isn't junk, and I have not been too lucky finding any reviews on these guys.   Keeping an eye out for an Onix SPIII too. 
   
  I'm curious about the Sophia Electric "Baby" too, if anyone has any experience with that one.   It uses odd tubes and is "cute" as the wife says, and Sophia Electric makes great monoblocks & tubes but I'm skeptical about the "Baby" mainly because of the tubes used.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Hey guys...what do you think of tube dampeners? Do they make any difference? Or just for looks?


 

 Both? If you have socket savers, hold your fingers over the tubes.  Shortly... it begins to hurt. Now through the pain.. .did you notice any improvement? If not, you don't need 'em. 
   
  It's debatable. Not all tubes benefit, it depends entirely on the batch and microphonics... yadda..
   
  In the end.... I got mine just in case. My wallet is ~ $60 lighter.... but hey. I got 'em. LOL


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





lugnut said:


> How long did it take to receive the Lorenz from Lithuania ?   Thanks


 
   
        In my case it only took about 2 weeks.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> They can be detrimental to the SQ, but they can also clean up noise.


 
   
   
  I've never heard of them being detrimental, how does that work?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I've never heard of them being detrimental, how does that work?


 
  They are sometimes used to give a more focused sound. Which in turn
  takes away some of that tube warmth.
   
  It's all really subjective in the end.
   
  But, say, you've got a noisy tube, so you decide to use tube dampers and
  they work on quieting 'em down, but they also take a bit away of that warmth.
   
  I'd then say that's a detriment to the SQ, for example.


----------



## nelamvr6

So far I haven't really compared the sound with vs the sound without the dampeners.  Maybe I should.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> So far I haven't really compared the sound with vs the sound without the dampeners.  Maybe I should.


 
   
  Well yes. No point in having something you can't hear. Right?


----------



## Sniperbombers

I personally wouldnt mind investing in one of these dampeners. I do find the tubes static to be fairly annoying at times.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay guys, I need a little tube ID help. I got some Orange Globes from another headfier. One of the sets is a very nice 1968-69 A getter from mercedesman. When they were shipped to me they were taped and the tape a lot of the letter off. See if you can help me make a positive ID:
   
   

   

   
  Says made in Holland for sure. Numbers I can make out are 6dj...ecc88
   
  Thanks in advance for the help!!


----------



## NightFlight

A tube rolling story. (Part 1?)   
*SIEMENS E88CC (A6)*
 The attack speed of the SIEMENS cannot be beat. They are sharper and faster than anything else I have. As closer in my mind to SS than any of the others. However they can't seem to keep complex harmonics together. It turns the highs into harsh and the mid/lows into mud. But the space is great and synergistic with the HD800s in this respect. However, I think these grade of Siemens are just a one trick pony. That and I can't listen to them in the fun zone without encountering pain. So their a no go, but I'll put another 100 hrs on them to see if they smooth out before I give them the punt. I think maybe the only reason I'm holding onto them is because I paid $100 for them. They're only priced that way due the big brother version: *The Holy Grey Shields*. But these did do what I wanted of them. While these are perhaps 'terrible', they did introduce me to the 'Siemens sound' I could expect if I forked out a few hundred more. It might just be glorious... but $300-$400 is an expensive experiment. Does the Lyr benefit that much? Maybe someone else can comment.
  
*Cryro 6N23P-EV*
 Dynamic, well rounded response, but seemingly flat. While technical they don't seem to engage. I think combined with the flat response of the HD800, they fall short of what tubes are supposed to do. There's no romance.  Maybe with another headphone they would shine. LCDs? I'd like to see their response graphed out on a waterfall chart. One could learn a lot about their own likes with that tool and this tube by contrasting what isn't there.
   

*AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBAL (1967)*
 With break-in hitting 100hrs these really started to shine. Their punch now somewhat subdued compared to how it started out. The space and detail coming together nicely. Holographic? Almost.  A really enjoyable tube. I think they might overdo the PRAT a bit however. They seem to take it and run a little. With that action, the listener is distracted and I think maybe information gets lost somewhere in the mix. That isn't to say these aren't fun.  I think for the price you can find them, everyone should have a pair or three in their arsenal. These engage the listener more than any other tube I have. They grab you by the mid bass, punch you around a bit and then suck you in. I go willingly.


*SEL LORENZ PCC88 (?)*
 These seem have everything you want and they keep it balanced. They allow your phones to sound like you would expect them to. The tubes don't stand out and simply leave the music to it. These are the best tube you won't hear.  Gracious and musical. Now I don't have a large collection, but these are easily the best tube I've matched up with the Lyr. I say this without reserve even when they're not even fully broken in; just 40hrs!  I'm really glad I grabbed an extra set. I feel as though I should be buying and to give them out to friends and family. Except… they wouldn't have a clue what to do with them. 


 So my preferences as they stand:

 1. SEL LORENZ PCC88
 2. AMPEREX ORAGE GLOBAL ('67)
 3. Cryo 6N23P-EV  OR  Schiit GE JAN 6BQ7A
 5. Siemens E88CC (A6)


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Okay guys, I need a little tube ID help. I got some Orange Globes from another headfier. One of the sets is a very nice 1968-69 A getter from mercedesman. When they were shipped to me they were taped and the tape a lot of the letter off. See if you can help me make a positive ID:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It looks like an A-Frame Dimple Getter 6DJ8.   I have a set of these, they are very nice.


----------



## Sniperbombers

@Nelamvr6
 Awwww i just got my tubes from surplus sales and i got 10 GE 6BZ7's
 *is very sad now


----------



## ilikepooters

Can 6CG7/6FQ7 be rolled into the Lyr?
   
  Only thing i know is that they draw more filament current than a 6DJ8 but they seem pretty abundant on ebay, far cheaper that ECC88 and other tubes people have been talking about on here.
   
  *EDIT* got the answer from Schiit
   
   
   


> I have one of your Lyr amps and was wondering if i can roll in some 6FQ7/6CG7 tubes? They draw more filament current than a 6DJ8 and that's about all i know. They are cheaper and a lot more abundant on ebay though.
> 
> Many thanks.


 
   
   
   


> You can, but they're not operating at an optimal point in Lyr. They won't hurt anything, but they aren't the best tubes in our opinion.
> 
> Jason Stoddard
> Co-Founder
> ...


 
   
  Quick reply!
   
  So not that good, but at the price point they're being sold for, it's gotta be worth trying some, right?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

I used several kinds 6cg7 and they were pretty meh. Except for the GE clear tops and GE black plate, they were personally one of my favorite in the lyr but they are a mixed bag here on the rolling thread, you either love them or hate them, it seems. Do a search in the thread there is a good bit of info on them


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I used several kinds 6cg7 and they were pretty meh. Except for the GE clear tops and GE black plate, they were personally one of my favorite in the lyr but they are a mixed bag here on the rolling thread, you either love them or hate them, it seems. Do a search in the thread there is a good bit of info on them


 
   
  Will have a search for sure.
   
  I've seen some Raytheons on ebay and remember their 6AK5 tubes sounded good in my Hifiman EF2A, so their 6CG7's worth a bash i think.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Okay guys, I need a little tube ID help. I got some Orange Globes from another headfier. One of the sets is a very nice 1968-69 A getter from mercedesman. When they were shipped to me they were taped and the tape a lot of the letter off. See if you can help me make a positive ID:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They look good, Matt! They should also sound especially nice with the HD650 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Look near the bottom for a date code that begins with a delta. It looks like a right-sided triangle. The next number after the delta should be the year it was made.
   
  IMO, the A-frame construction usually results in a quieter tube. Also, I have NEVER seen a counterfeit Amperex A-frame.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> @Nelamvr6
> Awwww i just got my tubes from surplus sales and i got 10 GE 6BZ7's
> *is very sad now


 
   
   
  Sorry dude.  I hope I didn't get all the RCAs.  I guess that's the risk you take when placing an order like that at a surplus seller like that.
   
  But the good news is that you got them for $1.60 each while Schiit is selling them for $10 per...  Can you make out any date codes?  They may very well be NOS tubes.  As far as I can tell the RCAs I got were made in '67...


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> They look good, Matt! They should also sound especially nice with the HD650
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks!!


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Sorry dude.  I hope I didn't get all the RCAs.  I guess that's the risk you take when placing an order like that at a surplus seller like that.
> 
> But the good news is that you got them for $1.60 each while Schiit is selling them for $10 per...  Can you make out any date codes?  They may very well be NOS tubes.  As far as I can tell the RCAs I got were made in '67...


 
  I guess it was a decent purchase excluding the whole shipping amount i had to deal with. I'll have to go home and double check the date, i was pretty sure they were NOS. Sadly looking at the internals was very discouraging because their halos werent perfectly aligned / some of the internals were tilted. - And i doubt these attributes would be considered "good grade market tubes"


----------



## nelamvr6

I wouldn't worry all that much about that, the Amperexes I'm using right now don't look all that well aligned either.  How they sound will be the real acid test.


----------



## Joong

Hi guys,
   
  Could you tell me that PCC88 7DJ8 NOS LORENZ SEL TUBES are good choice for HE-5LEs or 400s?


----------



## toschek

The SEL PCC88s have a very nice, open top end but the bass is a little lean as is the midrange. It depends on what sound you're aiming for. I have a set I can sell you cheaper than eBay, as I bought two from the same seller you're probably looking at. I liked them a lot with the Senn HD700s I used to own, but I find they are not a good match to the HD800s I have now so I'm going to sell them anyway. PM if interested.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toschek said:


> The SEL PCC88s have a very nice, open top end but the bass is a little lean as is the midrange. It depends on what sound you're aiming for. I have a set I can sell you cheaper than eBay, as I bought two from the same seller you're probably looking at. I liked them a lot with the Senn HD700s I used to own, but I find they are not a good match to the HD800s I have now so I'm going to sell them anyway. PM if interested.


 
   


 I disagree. Sure their a bit lighter weighted, but you can actually begin to hear detail with them. Nothing else in my little collection has gotten me there with the 800s/Lyr. As is everything with the Lyr/800s... it comes down the recording. The bass has to be there, or it won't be.


----------



## NightFlight

Toschek,
   
  How are your Telefunken vs the Amperex?


----------



## toschek

The Telefunken tubes are phenomenally detailed and spacious. Probably the most balanced and neutral of all the tubes I have for the Lyr too. They are really spendy though. I haven't heard Siemens Gray Shield CCa tubes, but I'm told they are pretty close only maybe a notch more forward.

They don't just sound good with HD800s, they mate with them. If you like what the Lorenz do for detail with your headphones, then you'd love the 6922s. But for like 10x more $ you'd better.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





joong said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Could you tell me that PCC88 7DJ8 NOS LORENZ SEL TUBES are good choice for HE-5LEs or 400s?


 
   
  I own HE5-LE's and have ordered a set of these tubes, will post my impressions when i get them, but waiting for burn-in might take a while.
   
  Out of the tubes i have so far (GE 6BZ7, RCA 6BQ7A and OTK marked 6N1P-EV) i must say the GE 6BZ7's have the best affinity with the HE5-LE's, the other tubes seem to kill off the sparkle in the treble, 6BZ7's seem a far more balanced and more detailed tube.


----------



## Mark-sf

Hey guys, I just got a used Lyr that I am going to be comparing with the Asgaard 2 when it arrives in a month. It came with a number of tubes including Lorenz, Mullard and Amperex White Label along with the stock JJ's. I am using it with HD700's and all are giving me a low level hum when the volume is turned down. The quietest are the JJ's. BTW this is definitely not environmentally induced as it occurs without a source input and with or without the third pin. My question is - do any of you have recommendations for particularly low noise ones?

I really enjoy the sound otherwise but am concerned that this may be a design limitation given the efficiency of my 700's. I have exchanged emails with Jason, and he states that the tubes are after the volume control and that he would expect to hear differences in hum level. He also mentioned that the JJ's are some of the quietest tubes though lack other qualities.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Hey! I can be nice sometimes.


 
  On occasion...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Still recovering but up for a sporadic comment or two...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Can 6CG7/6FQ7 be rolled into the Lyr?
> 
> Only thing i know is that they draw more filament current than a 6DJ8 but they seem pretty abundant on ebay, far cheaper that ECC88 and other tubes people have been talking about on here.
> 
> ...


 
  There was a run in the thread for a while of a lot of folks (including me) using them in the Lyr.  Several folks were quite fond if the sound.  Do a search within the thread and you'll find what I am talking about.
  Hope this helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





toschek said:


> The SEL PCC88s have a very nice, open top end but the bass is a little lean as is the midrange. It depends on what sound you're aiming for. I have a set I can sell you cheaper than eBay, as I bought two from the same seller you're probably looking at. I liked them a lot with the Senn HD700s I used to own, but I find they are not a good match to the HD800s I have now so I'm going to sell them anyway. PM if interested.


 
   
  Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I disagree. Sure their a bit lighter weighted, but you can actually begin to hear detail with them. Nothing else in my little collection has gotten me there with the 800s/Lyr. As is everything with the Lyr/800s... it comes down the recording. The bass has to be there, or it won't be.


 
  These really have to be burned in a while for all their qualities to show.  Give them time and you may be pleasantly surprised...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





toschek said:


> The Telefunken tubes are phenomenally detailed and spacious. Probably the most balanced and neutral of all the tubes I have for the Lyr too. They are really spendy though. I haven't heard Siemens Gray Shield CCa tubes, but I'm told they are pretty close only maybe a notch more forward.
> 
> They don't just sound good with HD800s, *they mate with them*. If you like what the Lorenz do for detail with your headphones, then you'd love the 6922s. But for like 10x more $ you'd better.


 
  Please!  Do NOT go into details on that comment!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Seriously though, Telefunkens are known to be a drier, more analytical tube than the Siemens and have been described in the past as the closest thing to a solid state sound in a tube.  I've heard (I don't own one) the HD800s are very analytical as well.  So if you pair (or mate...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) them, there won't be any sense of warmth.  Hope that helps...
   
  Cheers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> On occasion...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Look who's talkin'! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Glad you're well on your way to recovery. Before we know it, you'll be back to your ole snarky ways.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toschek said:


> The Telefunken tubes are phenomenally detailed and spacious. Probably the most balanced and neutral of all the tubes I have for the Lyr too. They are really spendy though. I haven't heard Siemens Gray Shield CCa tubes, but I'm told they are pretty close only maybe a notch more forward.
> 
> They don't just sound good with HD800s, they mate with them. If you like what the Lorenz do for detail with your headphones, then you'd love the 6922s. But for like 10x more $ you'd better.


 
   
  10x better sounding tho? Likely not.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> 10x better sounding tho? Likely not.


 
  Yes huh, cus they are cryoed. Daa!


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





mark-sf said:


> Hey guys, I just got a used Lyr that I am going to be comparing with the Asgaard 2 when it arrives in a month. It came with a number of tubes including Lorenz, Mullard and Amperex White Label along with the stock JJ's. I am using it with HD700's and all are giving me a low level hum when the volume is turned down. The quietest are the JJ's. BTW this is definitely not environmentally induced as it occurs without a source input and with or without the third pin. My question is - do any of you have recommendations for particularly low noise ones?
> 
> I really enjoy the sound otherwise but am concerned that this may be a design limitation given the efficiency of my 700's. I have exchanged emails with Jason, and he states that the tubes are after the volume control and that he would expect to hear differences in hum level. He also mentioned that the JJ's are some of the quietest tubes though lack other qualities.


 
  Ground loop?  All components plugged into the same power strip?


----------



## toschek

Have you tried with different outlets?  I had a hum on one set of outlets (on the same power strip even) but it went away on a different set.


----------



## Mark-sf

toschek said:


> Have you tried with different outlets?  I had a hum on one set of outlets (on the same power strip even) but it went away on a different set.




I have tried and this is not that type of hum. I believe it is either a filament or internally induced one. It is in the 1-3mv range depending on tube.


----------



## eddiek997

Are you using socket savers? If so, remove them and go direct.


----------



## Mark-sf

eddiek997 said:


> Are you using socket savers? If so, remove them and go direct.




No socket savers either. I may be asking for too much. The stock JJ's are acceptably quiet that is I have to be listening for it. However while they have a very clean and clear presentation with a wide separation I am not hearing the depth and soundstage I hear with the Lorenz. Since the hum level varies based upon tube pair which I have confirmed with my scope, it would appear to be a function of tube sensitivity or gain. Thus my hope that there is a quality alternative out there.


----------



## nelamvr6

I have absolutely no hum with my Amperex USN-CEPs, but they are a lot more expensive that the SEL Lorenzes or the JJs.
   
  Have you any 6BZ7s?  They're really good bargain tubes also.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





joong said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Could you tell me that PCC88 7DJ8 NOS LORENZ SEL TUBES are good choice for HE-5LEs or 400s?


 
  Got my SEL Lorenz's today, and i can confirm they are an absolutely perfect match for the HE5-LE.
   
  They seem pretty neutral, but are very detailed, everything from bass-mids-treble sounds better.
   
  Treble is the biggest improvement, sounds a lot smoother, not so bright, everything is so... balanced.
   
  Bass has punch, Mids are rich.
   
  This is my new favourite tube, and not even burned in yet! (not that i believe in burn-in, but each to their own.)
   
  I must point out that my HE5-LE's are not completely stock, i removed the felt discs and the cable is some sort of unknown silver cable.


----------



## MattTCG

Where did you get the Lorenz from? How much? 
   
  thanks...


----------



## ilikepooters

They were on ebay for about £35 a pair, that particular seller has sold out now though.
   
  If you want to be ripped off, there is an american seller selling a pair for about $150
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-LORENZ-BWB-PCC88-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-for-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-MILITARY-ISSUED-/290848900203?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b7f2046b


----------



## MattTCG

Oh, I appreciate a crappy deal.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> They were on ebay for about £35 a pair, that particular seller has sold out now though.
> 
> If you want to be ripped off, there is an american seller selling a pair for about $150
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-LORENZ-BWB-PCC88-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-for-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-MILITARY-ISSUED-/290848900203?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b7f2046b


 
   
  Ah, the infamous Tube 'Meu$eum'.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> They were on ebay for about £35 a pair, that particular seller has sold out now though.
> 
> If you want to be ripped off, there is an american seller selling a pair for about $150
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-LORENZ-BWB-PCC88-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-for-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-MILITARY-ISSUED-/290848900203?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b7f2046b


 
   
  If you couldn't get them for anythign but $150, would you pay that?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Got my SEL Lorenz's today, and i can confirm they are an absolutely perfect match for the HE5-LE.
> 
> They seem pretty neutral, but are very detailed, everything from bass-mids-treble sounds better.
> 
> ...


 
  Here the thing. I think their my favorite too. 
   
  But I keep putting these goddam OG's back in. Ugh.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> If you couldn't get them for anythign but $150, would you pay that?


 
  Nah, diminishing returns and all that.
   
  i nearly choked when i had to pay £35 for a pair of tubes, i've only been rolling the cheapo's so far.
   
  I have a pair of Voshkod 6N1P's on the way for $13.59, that's how cheap i am usually.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Nah, diminishing returns and all that.
> 
> i nearly choked when i had to pay £35 for a pair of tubes, i've only been rolling the cheapo's so far.
> 
> I have a pair of Voshkod 6N1P's on the way for $13.59, that's how cheap i am usually.


 
   
  I got my Amperex OGs for $40. Another pair for $15 which were untested random pulls, but one turned out to be dead. The seller was kind enough to send me another for a few $. Mostly because I didn't get around to testing them before his 14 day DOA return limit.  Well worth the money at $15-$50 a pair.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Where did you get the Lorenz from? How much?


 
   
  Apparently the SEL Lorenz PCC88s are Ei PCC88s. Why not get them as such? The print on the tube is not going to make any difference to the sound.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Nah, diminishing returns and all that.
> 
> i nearly choked when i had to pay £35 for a pair of tubes, i've only been rolling the cheapo's so far.
> 
> I have a pair of Voshkod 6N1P's on the way for $13.59, that's how cheap i am usually.


 
  Go to a meet if you can, try out the better tubes and you'll know the difference.
  
  This is an expensive hobby and for sure there are pieces of kit that are expensive just for the hell of it with no real quality but, the genuine S&H CCa's, RTC E188ccs and some of the telefunken mazdas that are high price are worth every penny. You can hear the difference and if I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor (I quoted James there).
  There are also real value for money tubes out there and the occasional bargain to be had but in general, you get what you pay for.
  You have $1500 HD800's (according to your sig) but feed them $15 tubes. Makes no sense to me.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> If you couldn't get them for anythign but $150, would you pay that?


 
  For the Stuttgart Lorenz, yes, but not for the SEL's...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## toschek

nightflight said:


> If you couldn't get them for anythign but $150, would you pay that?




Nope. I would pay that for a pair of JAN-CEP 6922 or 7308s though.


----------



## nelamvr6

toschek said:


> nightflight said:
> 
> 
> > If you couldn't get them for anythign but $150, would you pay that?
> ...




I would too! But those are more likely to go for closer to $200 for a pair. 

Sent from my Android phone.


----------



## ilikepooters

Got my Voshkod 6N1P's (Gold grids) today.... Wow!
   
  These things sound amazing for the price.
   
  Bass extends all the way down to the floor and is very impactful, treble is nice and sparkly albeit natural sounding, mids are a bit relaxed though. Very much a slight V shape going on here with the sound signature.
   
  Sound stage i wouldn't call expansive, it's deffinately there, but a little more intimate than i would like.
   
  They are very detailed, almost to the point of being clinically precise, but i like that.
   
  I reckon these would go well with a neutral sounding headphone if you wanted to add a touch of colour to your sound, any 'phones with a lot of bass or sparkly treble are gonna be exaggerated.
   
  Cost me $13.59 for a matched pair from ebay, absolute bargain in my book.
   
  I rate these as joint 1st place in my collection of tubes so far.
   
  1st= SEL Lorenz PCC88
  1st= 6N1P Voshkod
  3rd GE 6BZ7
  4th 6N1P-VI Novosibirsk
  5th RCA 6BQ7A Black plates


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Got my Voshkod 6N1P's (Gold grids) today.... Wow!
> 
> These things sound amazing for the price.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Got my Voshkod 6N1P's (Gold grids) today.... Wow!
> 
> These things sound amazing for the price.
> 
> ...


 
  How long did tubes to get to you?  and who did you buy the tubes from?


----------



## ilikepooters

I bought them from this seller in Bulgaria http://stores.ebay.co.uk/LCI-Electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
   
  I ordered them on 8th March and got them today 20th March, so 12 days, would take longer to the US i think.
   
  These are exact same as my pair http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N1P-GOLD-GRID-ECC88-Tubes-VOSKHOD-STRONG-MATCHED-PAIR-/310622906742?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4852916976


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Go to a meet if you can, try out the better tubes and you'll know the difference.
> 
> This is an expensive hobby and for sure there are pieces of kit that are expensive just for the hell of it with no real quality but, the genuine S&H CCa's, RTC E188ccs and some of the telefunken mazdas that are high price are worth every penny. You can hear the difference and if I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor (I quoted James there).
> There are also real value for money tubes out there and the occasional bargain to be had but in general, you get what you pay for.
> *You have $1500 HD800's (according to your sig) but feed them $15 tubes. Makes no sense to me.*


 
   
  Makes sense to me. He's broke. I'm sympathetic to this notion.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I bought them from this seller in Bulgaria http://stores.ebay.co.uk/LCI-Electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
> 
> I ordered them on 8th March and got them today 20th March, so 12 days, would take longer to the US i think.
> 
> These are exact same as my pair http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N1P-GOLD-GRID-ECC88-Tubes-VOSKHOD-STRONG-MATCHED-PAIR-/310622906742?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4852916976


 

 Thank you...I should try that.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Please!  Do NOT go into details on that comment!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, that helps. I think I'm looking for something a little warmer. With the right recordings the Lyr/800 combo really rocks. But there are some that I know really well and have tried recently only to be really disappointed by their lack of warmth where I expect it.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> For the Stuttgart Lorenz, yes, but not for the SEL's...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Can you post a reference photo for the Stuttgarts?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Can you post a reference photo for the Stuttgarts?


 
  I posted these a while back in the thread.  They are from TubeMonger's Tube Library site.  They keep photos of all the tubes they've sold.
   
   

   

   

   
  If I remember correctly, you can actually see the original sales pages at the library site.  If you'll notice, there is no "SEL" on any of the tubes and they are marked as being made in Germany.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## gmahler2u

Now no one sell the Lorenz St. tube.  sad.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Thanks, that helps. I think I'm looking for something a little warmer. With the right recordings the Lyr/800 combo really rocks. But there are some that I know really well and have tried recently only to be really disappointed by their lack of warmth where I expect it.


 
   
  I don't find the 6922 Teles to be cold, more just right on the money neutral/transparent.   It is not warm or wet though, very right down the middle.   For me it works perfectly with the HD800s, I'm after a purely neutral presentation with the kind of soundstage you can only get with tubes.   Warmth isn't really my thing.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I don't find the 6922 Teles to be cold, more just right on the money neutral/transparent.   It is not warm or wet though, very right down the middle.   For me it works perfectly with the HD800s, I'm after a purely neutral presentation with the kind of soundstage you can only get with tubes.   Warmth isn't really my thing.


 

 Do you have Kraftwerk "The Mix"? The "We are the robots" mainline should have some punchy bass. I'm not gettin' it.


----------



## toschek

I'll let you know later, my listening station is tied up at the moment.


----------



## toschek

I got a new tube today which I was holding off telling you guys about until I could verify it actually worked.  It's a Telefunken PCC189, not a typical tube talked about here much.  So far I am really digging it.  What a soundstage on this guy!   The ones I have were still wrapped up in cellophane and I think I paid $25 each for them.   So far I can't say where they fit in, but the soundstage is great and the sound has a lot of presence to it, nice punch on Kraftwerk too.  Glad I took a risk.


----------



## NightFlight

Good deal!


----------



## Joong

Hi guys,
   
  I just join this Lyr party with perplexed feeling.
  Schiit Lyr has warmed up and stayed in more than 40 C degree or more than 100 F degree.
  Is it normal or abnormal?
  I feel the high temperature level all over the place on housing....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, which has not been the case with Emotiva or my SS amp like Little dot mkvii+.
  Anodized surface is little bit dirts, which is not removed by scrubbing with watered paper towel...and stains are spotted here and there in different positions.
   
  He-400s are connected to the amp with stock GE tubes, and SQ is equivalent or not noticeably better than that of Emotiva


----------



## swmtnbiker

You're good. The Lyr runs hot.


----------



## solserenade

Re: heat: the aluminum case IS the heat-sink, meant to dissipate (internal) heat. So, it's normal.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





joong said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just join this Lyr party with perplexed feeling.
> Schiit Lyr has warmed up and stayed in more than 40 C degree or more than 100 F degree.
> ...


 
  Sounds about right for temperature. The chassis is the heat sink. Actual sound expectation takes 100+hrs on the tubes/device.
  If new, I would contact the manufacturer if the cosmetics are too much for you. Personally, I listen to it, not look at it.


----------



## NightFlight

Thanks big big.
   
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I posted these a while back in the thread.  They are from TubeMonger's Tube Library site.  They keep photos of all the tubes they've sold.
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly, you can actually see the original sales pages at the library site.  If you'll notice, there is no "SEL" on any of the tubes and they are marked as being made in Germany.
> ...


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





joong said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just join this Lyr party with perplexed feeling.
> Schiit Lyr has warmed up and stayed in more than 40 C degree or more than 100 F degree.
> ...


 
   
  Wait until you roll in some 6N1P's and you're hitting 50-60C


----------



## Joong

Thanks Nightflight for the information,
   
  I am not very concerned about cosmetics, and I saw some headfier's cosmetic condition of Asgard 2 which was similar to mine.
  The anodizing is not well done in this case.
   
  My listening level is now at 11:30 o'clock for He-400, which is also suprising when I have the same listening level with Little Dot mkvii+ with all same setting of the rig.
   
  Regards


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Wait until you roll in some 6N1P's and you're hitting 50-60C


 
  In summer time, it might be uncomfortable
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  I need a long cable to avoid heat.


----------



## AlphaChicken

Can anyone recommend me a variety of tubes that go well with the HD800s and the percieved signatures of each?


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





joong said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just join this Lyr party with perplexed feeling.
> Schiit Lyr has warmed up and stayed in more than 40 C degree or more than 100 F degree.
> ...


 
  Socket Saver does wonders IMO. Definitely releases some heat off of the already hot Lyr.


----------



## ilikepooters

After trying the Voshkod 6N1P's is it time to order some 6N23P's?
   
  I've heard they're a better tube, but which one is favoured? Saratov, Reflektor or Voshkod?
   
  I love rockin' the cheap Russkiy tubes i do


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> After trying the Voshkod 6N1P's is it time to order some 6N23P's?


 
  If you read this thread from the beginning, that was the usual progression.
   
  Or, you can just skip to the end and find a nice pair of Mullard CV2492/93 and be done with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  YMMV.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> Socket Saver does wonders IMO. Definitely releases some heat off of the already hot Lyr.


 

 Good point! I also think the Lyr runs a few degrees cooler using the Socket Savers.
   
  IMO, the only downside to the Socket Savers is that I now seem to only buy tubes that have the logos oriented forward, so I can see them.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> If you read this thread from the beginning, that was the usual progression.
> 
> Or, you can just skip to the end and find a nice pair of Mullard CV2492/93 and be done with it.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The Mullard's are silly expensive though, especially for a matched pair.
   
  I might just buy odd single tubes and match them by ear.


----------



## NightFlight

After a long day of listening, I was getting ready to pack up. I was tapping the front facing PCC88 tube when the bugger bit me back!
   
  By bite, I mean acoustically. A loud snap in my right ear. Loud enough, just shy of triggering a ringing. So I turned the unit off and it did it again on the power down. Waited a while. Powered back on cautiously.
   
  Seemed fine after about 60 seconds, I pulled the 1/4 HP connector out and got a good snap again. I put the headphones back in (yah I know... ) then got another good snap one on power down again.  The volume was completely down, which had no attenuation effect on the snaps.
   
  It's been off since, and I haven't had time to get back to it. Thinking perhaps I need a cheap pair of phones to experiment with before I start testing again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I emailed Schiit and suggested possibly a bad tube and Jason figures it's most likely too.
   
  I'd appreciate any input.


----------



## toschek

I had that happen once too, it went away after I reseated there socket saver and tube.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Good point! I also think the Lyr runs a few degrees cooler using the Socket Savers.
> 
> IMO, the only downside to the Socket Savers is that I now seem to only buy tubes that have the logos oriented forward, so I can see them.


 
  Cover the tubes with tube dampers and it won't matter if the have logos or not.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Cover the tubes with tube dampers and it won't matter if the have logos or not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ok, but the voices in my head say to make sure the damper rings are perfectly centered


----------



## toschek

alphachicken said:


> Can anyone recommend me a variety of tubes that go well with the HD800s and the percieved signatures of each?




There are lots of ones to try, my favorites with hd800s are in order:

1. Amperex 7308 gold pin/white label JAN-CEP - Very holographic, great mids, neutral - around $150-$175/pair

2. Brimar CV2492 - slightly more intimate soundstage, balanced presentation, warmish - around $100 - $120/pair

3. Telefunken 6922 - best soundstage but not as three dimensional as #1, balanced bass/mids/treble, totally neutral - around $300-$400/pair. 

If I were doing this over, I would have bought two sets of #1 and called it a day. 

Telefunken PCC189 is creeping up to the top 3 but since they are brand new and only burned in for 16 hours I can't in good conscience put them in the running. They are a lot like a hybrid of #1 & #3 so far though and if they improve much with burn in they will easily be my new #1 and I'll endeavor to sell off the Telefunken 6922s. Cost of PCC189 - $45-$50/pair. FYI, Telefunken PCC189 isn't even supposed to be the best of that lot, Dario/Miniwatt are supposed to be even better. Someone's selling a lot of 35/pc tubes of those and I'm considering buying it and selling them back to Head-Fi at cost ($5.50 - $$ auction final price - they aren't buy it now unfortunately) plus shipping. 

YMMV, etc.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I had that happen once too, it went away after I reseated there socket saver and tube.


 
   
  Well I found a use for a pair of Apple Ear buds after all...
   
  The issue followed the SEL LORENZ PCC88 tube. Got it to dead short dump into whichever socket channel it was in. That little earbud jumped around in my hand like a Mexican jumping bean. Replacing the tube fixed it. Glad I grabbed spares.... Hey funny enough the earbud survived. You just can't kill crap can you?
   
  A moment of silence for the SEL...
   
  I'll be cracking it open later to see if I can identify the failure visually.


----------



## Trance_Gott

If someone has a matched pair of Matsu****as please PM me. I also interested in Amperex   Jan 7308 Orange Label Gold Pin and Tesla.


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Got my Voshkod 6N1P's (Gold grids) today.... Wow!
> 
> These things sound amazing for the price.
> 
> ...


 
  Your phones are He-5le with these tube?


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Got my Voshkod 6N1P's (Gold grids) today.... Wow!
> 
> These things sound amazing for the price.
> 
> ...


 
  Your phones are He-5le with these tube?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Ok, but the voices in my head say to make sure the damper rings are perfectly centered


 
  We must listen to the same voices...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Joong

High heat of Lyr is due to Class A amping or other?


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





joong said:


> High heat of Lyr is due to Class A amping or other?


 

 All class A amps run hot.
  Using the socket saver raises one major cause of heat (the Tubes) out of the physical chassis of the amp. My Lyr runs considerably cooler with the socket savers in use.
  I also made sure that I left a gap for cool air to circulate under the bottom of the Amp and allow convection to help with the cooling and instead of expensive dampers and the like, I hot glued 4 quarters in a stack and made 4 stacks then added the felt furniture feet things to each end of the stack on coins to prevent scratches. For 4dollars I got extra cooling and scratch proof, vibration proof seperators to use between the lyr and the bifrost.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Good idea and even though it's literally made of money, that's a lot less expensive than my herbie feet


----------



## eddiek997




----------



## eddiek997

The secret sauce is the dab of hot glue in between each quarter.
  As the Lyr gets hot, the glue actually becomes quite soft so the vibration damping is great.
  The trick is not to use too much glue so that when it gets hot it doesn't overflow over the edge of the coins.


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


>


 
  What can I say?
  Canadian coin does the same thing?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Idea generating idea... hum..


----------



## Joong

I have a better idea and inexpensive one.
  I will use 1 cent stack.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  My Bifrost will have heat immunity and Lyr has more room for convection.....


----------



## Radioking59

My Lyr shipped today.  I'm dreading reading this thread and how much it is going to cost me.


----------



## nelamvr6

You could save some money and just get some nice NOS Amperexes or Mallards, and then be content and just listen to music. Skip all the experimentation and bargain hunting. 

Sent from my Android phone.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





joong said:


> Your phones are He-5le with these tube?


 
   
  Yep, HE5-LE


----------



## ilikepooters

The rolling continues.
   
  Just ordered some Siemens PCC189 and some Phillips PCC189. Phillips made by Mullard Blackburn.
   
  £31.79 including postage from Germany for both sets of tubes.


----------



## Sniperbombers

interesting... the power of quarters.. LOL


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You could save some money and just get some nice NOS Amperexes or Mallards, and then be content and just listen to music. Skip all the experimentation and bargain hunting.
> 
> Sent from my Android phone.


 

 I suggested this very idea yesterday, but to no avail.
   
  I suppose some people just need to experience things for themselves.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You could save some money and just get some nice NOS Amperexes or Mallards, and then be content and just listen to music. Skip all the experimentation and bargain hunting.
> 
> Sent from my Android phone.


 
   
  Don't the Mallards' quacking interfere with the music?


----------



## ilikepooters

I think half of the fun is trying out different things.
   
  I'm sure many people would have told me the 6N1P's were a waste of time, but they sound fantastic to me. much better than the 6N1P-VI's that Schiit supplies, pardon the pun but they really are Schiit


----------



## fox350z

Hello, what tubes would you guys recommend for the HE-400 that would bring improvements without having to break bank, just a college student here can't really afford super expensive tubes. Thanks.


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I think half of the fun is trying out different things.
> 
> I'm sure many people would have told me the 6N1P's were a waste of time, but they sound fantastic to me. much better than the 6N1P-VI's that Schiit supplies, pardon the pun but they really are Schiit


 
  Might there be significant part to part variation to the tubes?
  Intrinsically tube manufacturers are small quantity producer. And this leads to a widespread quality variations?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





joong said:


> Might there be significant part to part variation to the tubes?
> Intrinsically tube manufacturers are small quantity producer. And this leads to a widespread quality variations?


 
   
  I think it's down to quality of materials.
   
  There could be huge variation in the purity of the metals used which could influence things like sound.
   
  Then there are design differences, different "getter" designs, different plates, even gold pins/gold grids on some tubes.
   
  There are a lot of different flavours/variations.
   
  There might be a cheap chinese knock-off out there that sounds absolute magic, won't know until we roll them.


----------



## Joong

How big is the tube industry?
  The market is oriented to audio amp consumers?
  There are so many of them.
  As you said I may not know how good it will be to my system until I have tried out.
  I think it is reasonable explanation because of those variation for material usage, and design etc..
  And top of that, the configuration of audio machines are also influencing to different preference of listener.
  In this sense the listener himself/heself is part of those filter chaines that will finally define audio signal.


----------



## nelamvr6

bobjs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Lol! You got me! Damn auto correct! 

Sent from my Android phone.


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

Let's say a man has a Schiit Lyr. Let's say that he occasionally gets a buzzing in the right channel. Let's say if he shifts the tube in it's socket the buzzing goes away. Let's say it comes back, regardless, eventually. 

Would this be a problem with his amp or with the tubes? Or is just a fun little part of having tubes? A man might not know as it might be his first.

Sorry... Excited for Game of Thrones.


----------



## Radioking59

^^^ Have you tried reversing the tubes to see if the buzzing moves to the left channel?


----------



## DougofTheAbaci

radioking59 said:


> ^^^ Have you tried reversing the tubes to see if the buzzing moves to the left channel?




It occasionally happens in the left, but far less frequently. However, reversing them would definitely tell me something. I'll give it a shot, thanks!


----------



## solserenade

dougoftheabaci said:


> Let's say a man has a Schiit Lyr. Let's say that he occasionally gets a buzzing in the right channel. Let's say if he shifts the tube in it's socket the buzzing goes away. Let's say it comes back, regardless, eventually.
> 
> Would this be a problem with his amp or with the tubes? *Or is just a fun little part of having tubes? *A man might not know as it might be his first.
> 
> Sorry... Excited for Game of Thrones.




Hi. While it may be a fun part of tubes--temporarily diagnosing things, some experimentation, rolling, etc.-- You should not expect to hear anything funky over the long term, just by virtue of tubes. 

You can expect to hear sound-quality differences, often subtle, with tube rolling -- But again, objectionable sounds means something is wrong. Most researched/recommended tubes in a Lyr ought to be silent and wonderful - this is not 1940s ham radio. lol

As suggested, switching tubes left to right (see if sound switches channels) will isolate problem: whether it's tubes or something else (which could include cables or amp - do same swap with cables to test them, if it comes to that).


----------



## claud W

My Lyr & Bifrost combo should be here soon. I bought my tubes 10 or more years ago. I have Tel 6922s, Siemens 6922s and CCAs, Amperex white marked 6922 , E188CC and 6DJ8s and some more esoteric variations. At the moment I have AKG 702s and Senn HD600s w/ cardas wire. If your tubes are good, is Lyr a quiet amp? Any recommendation on a tube that might sound nice with my headphones on hand?


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





claud w said:


> My Lyr & Bifrost combo should be here soon. I bought my tubes 10 or more years ago. I have Tel 6922s, Siemens 6922s and CCAs, Amperex white marked 6922 , E188CC and 6DJ8s and some more esoteric variations. At the moment I have AKG 702s and Senn HD600s w/ cardas wire. If your tubes are good, is Lyr a quiet amp? Any recommendation on a tube that might sound nice with my headphones on hand?


 

 The Lyr should be silent with whatever tubes you have in there.

 With your Hp's and tubes listed, the CCa's would be my choice. They have a great bottom end which will help make up for the lack of bass on the AKG's. They will also bring the senns to life because of their excellent detail..
  However, you'll have a good time rolling in the other tubes you have and taking a note of the different signature of each. The differences may be very subtle, but theyre there.


----------



## NightFlight

I'm looking for a Mullard to try.  Could someone point me to a decent pair that were not overly expensive? They don't have to be a killer tube... I'm just looking for something that will tell me what sort of signature to expect if I were to invest more heavily in the future.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I'm looking for a Mullard to try.  Could someone point me to a decent pair that were not overly expensive? They don't have to be a killer tube... I'm just looking for something that will tell me what sort of signature to expect if I were to invest more heavily in the future.


 
CV2492's


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> CV2492's


 

 OK. I've looked them over a bunch of times. I hadn't seen the pair, just the quad set. Are they yellow or is that just the photo?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> OK. I've looked them over a bunch of times. I hadn't seen the pair, just the quad set. Are they yellow or is that just the photo?


 
  Sorry, that didn't even enter my mind. No. it's just the lighting, no worries.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Sorry, that didn't even enter my mind. No. it's just the lighting, no worries.


 
   
  No worry, just wondering. Seemed a bit odd is all.


----------



## Joong

Hi guys, could you inform me of what defines a tube in terms of size or type or capacity by numbers ?
  Some type of tube is not compatible with Lyr but other types are well matched.
  How could I know this by label or numbers?


----------



## NightFlight

Anyone tried these?


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> OK. I've looked them over a bunch of times. I hadn't seen the pair, just the quad set. Are they yellow or is that just the photo?


 
   
  Its just the photo, they are clear glass like every other tube.  Hopefully you can find a pair instead of getting jacked on a quad.  FWIW, Brimars are the same tube essentially, but perhaps a bit better quality wise, its not night and day I would say, but Brimar to me is just a little more lush, a little more full and a little more soundstage. They are usually the same price.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Anyone tried these?


 
   
  Yep, they are pretty decent.  I prefer the ones with the D shaped getter though.


----------



## ilikepooters

Anyone rolled in some ECC85's? They seem to be a close match for 6N1P's and the Telefunkens are cheap as chips.


----------



## DutchGFX

I'm looking for some tubes <$25. I replaced stock with some other pair, and I notice a difference, mostly in detail, but the soundstage doesn't seam so fantastic. I think the tubes are Ge but not sure.

Got any recommendations? I love soundstage, and I love my highs, not a bass head AT ALL.


----------



## claud W

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Anyone tried these?


 
  Those white label Bugle Boys for a bit more should sound better. White label Bugle Boy and Amperex are the older ones.


----------



## NightFlight

Decisions decisions....


----------



## rdaneel

Does anyone have four cheap tubes (of the same brand/model and break-in status) they are willing to sell?  I want to run an experiment with my two Lyrs (one modded and the other not), but I don't actually have four identical tubes to use.  I recall many pages ago that folks were buying wholesale lots, and received 10 or a dozen of the same tube - which is just what I need!  I'm not worried about tube quality (as long as they work).  Sure, it would be nice to test the Lyrs with amazing tubes, but I'm not buying a quad of CCAs just to run this test!
   
  Thanks!  Please PM me if you have any extras to offload.  I'd also be able to trade some Electroharmonix or other low end tubes if you would like to have some to play with.


----------



## toschek

Mods?  What did you do to your Lyr?  Curious minds want to know.


----------



## rdaneel

toschek, I picked up a Lyr modded by Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio.  They used it for a demo that required headphones.  So far it sounds fabulous to me, but I haven't yet compared it to a bone stock Lyr to inform my opinion.  I got a good deal on a stock Lyr that came with some Telefunkens that I can use with whichever Lyr I prefer.
   
   
 The mods included:
  
 1) swap in 4 high-voltage PentaCap teflon signal coupling caps to replace the stock Wima Polypropylene caps
 2) swap in high-voltage Black-Gate electrolytic cap for plate voltage
 3) addition of a couple Panasonic low-ESR series electrolytics to replace inexpensive caps for low-voltage decoupling
 4) addition of high-voltage HF decoupling cap for plate voltage
 5) addition of 4 low-voltage HF decoupling caps
  
 Supposedly, these are hundreds of dollars in parts (not to mention the labor involved), so I'm curious to see how much of an audible difference I hear.  I want to try and do this as blindly as possible to remove any type of expectation bias.  I figure that if I have four identical tubes, I can set the Lyrs up so all I have to is swap the cables.  If I cover the serial numbers and let my wife arrange them in the rack, I won't know which is which.


----------



## toschek

Oh that's the one that comes up when you search "Lyr mods" in Google.  I really want to hear your comparisons.
   
  As far as tubes to use, check flea bay for matched PCC189s or 6N1Ps, they are both hella cheap and work fine in the Lyr.
   
  Here are some 6N1Ps:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N1P-EV-TUBES-NOS-GOLD-SILVER-GRID-4-pcs-/261187918451?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd0035a73


----------



## rdaneel

Thanks.  I appreciate the ebay link.  If no one here has extras they don't need (I was hoping to keep the sale "in the family") I'll definitely try some of those 6N1Ps.  How is it that I already have five pairs of tubes and I have had the Lyr for less than a month?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





rdaneel said:


> Thanks.  I appreciate the ebay link.  If no one here has extras they don't need (I was hoping to keep the sale "in the family") I'll definitely try some of those 6N1Ps.  How is it that I already have five pairs of tubes and I have had the Lyr for less than a month?


 
   
  Not to mention a pair of Lyrs...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





rdaneel said:


> toschek, I picked up a Lyr modded by Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio.  They used it for a demo that required headphones.  So far it sounds fabulous to me, but I haven't yet compared it to a bone stock Lyr to inform my opinion.  I got a good deal on a stock Lyr that came with some Telefunkens that I can use with whichever Lyr I prefer.
> 
> 
> The mods included:
> ...


 
   
   
  The problem is going to be that you'll need matched tube to have "identical" tubes.  I'm not certain how much of a difference matching makes in the Lyr, but just four tubes of the same brand/model could still have some differences that may or may not be significant.


----------



## 333jeffery

For folks that have asked, the ECC85 and PCC85 tubes work fine in the Lyr. Sound good, too.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> For folks that have asked, the ECC85 and PCC85 tubes work fine in the Lyr. Sound good, too.


 
   
  What about E80CC?
   
  I think they're similar to 6N1P but i'm not sure if they'll work ok in Lyr.
   
  *EDIT* looking at a spec sheet of E80CC it seems like heater voltage will work at both 12.6v and 6.3v drawing 300mA and 600mA respectively.
   
  I might pull the trigger on some and see what they're like, seem to be intended for audio use and are a lot cheaper than E88CC for the same makes


----------



## 333jeffery

I've never tried the E80CC's, so I don't know if they'll work. You can also use 6n23p's if you're looking for cheap tubes for the Lyr, they work good.


----------



## rdaneel

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> The problem is going to be that you'll need matched tube to have "identical" tubes.  I'm not certain how much of a difference matching makes in the Lyr, but just four tubes of the same brand/model could still have some differences that may or may not be significant.


 
   
  Good point.  I just ordered a matched quad of 6N1Ps that have very very close (or identical) measurements.  They're NOS military tubes so I'm not expecting amazing sound quality, but they should provide a good basis for comparison. I'll have to make sure to use them equally so there is no issue with break-in.  Now I just have to figure out the best way to wire everything.
   
  I've never used the Lyr's preamp function - do you think I could just daisy chain the units together, or should I just swap the interconnect cables coming out of my DAC between the two Lyrs?


----------



## ilikepooters

I've found another budget champion.
   
  I ordered some Siemens PCC189 and Phillips PCC189 and they turned up today, just rolled in the Siemens and they sound the best by far of all the tubes i have.
   
  These are the ones i bought: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370780524004?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  Only 12 Euros! and they absolutely blow the SEL Lorenz PCC88's out of the water. (Using them on my HE5-LE anyway, so YMMV depending on your 'phones)
   
  They have a nice subtle warmth to them, treble is airy with a little bit of sparkle, mids are not in the slight bit recessed. Detail and separation are far above any other tube i've tried. Soundstage is expansive.
   
  They bring everything together nicely, very balanced, and they've not even burned in yet!
   
  *EDIT* Only negative, which is really very minor, is the volume knob needs cranking up a very slight bit more than the other tubes i have.
   
  I'd order a backup pair if i had any money left 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I've not tried the Phillips PCC189's yet, will report on those when i've rolled them in.
   
  I urge everyone to grab a pair of these Siemens though, they are truly amazing for the money, i'm awestruck listening to them.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





rdaneel said:


> Good point.  I just ordered a matched quad of 6N1Ps that have very very close (or identical) measurements.  They're NOS military tubes so I'm not expecting amazing sound quality, but they should provide a good basis for comparison. I'll have to make sure to use them equally so there is no issue with break-in.  Now I just have to figure out the best way to wire everything.
> 
> I've never used the Lyr's preamp function - do you think I could just daisy chain the units together, or should I just swap the interconnect cables coming out of my DAC between the two Lyrs?


 
   
  You wouldn't want to daisy chain them, either swap the cables or get a cheap, good quality RCA switch.


----------



## Joong

I ordered mine too.


----------



## Joong

ilikepooters said:


> I've found another budget champion.
> 
> I ordered some Siemens PCC189 and Phillips PCC189 and they turned up today, just rolled in the Siemens and they sound the best by far of all the tubes i have.
> 
> ...



The pair is matched one?
I ordered those for my He 5LE in the assumption of their being matched.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





joong said:


> The pair is matched one?
> I ordered those for my He 5LE in the assumption of their being matched.


 
   
  They're not advertised as matched, but i can't hear any imbalances with these tubes.
   
  I think matching might be over-rated tbh.


----------



## Joong

What happens if unmatched ?
One tube operates on one channel of stereo, and the result leads to unbalanced volumes?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





joong said:


> What happens if unmatched ?
> One tube operates on one channel of stereo, and the result leads to unbalanced volumes?


 
   
  Yeah i think it would give unbalanced volume, but they'd need to be a really poor match to be noticable i think.


----------



## nelamvr6

rdaneel said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would think that ideally parallel connections would provide the most assurance of equal burn in. But I don't know enough about your rig to guess how that might be accomplished. 

Back in the day it wasn't unusual for an amp or receiver to have two tape loops. That would make things very easy. 

Sent from my Android phone.


----------



## Joong

Lyr's preamp function can be controlerable by volume knob?
I have Emotiva mini x, which can be fed by the preamp output of Lyr?


----------



## toschek

Yes, it will control the volume.


----------



## DenonBeaver

Just purchased the Lyr, needed an upgrade for my LCD-2's which is currently running on the Asgard, can't wait to hear the difference. I've read a ton of pages in this thread, is there a general consensus on the top tubes to run with the Lyr? I bought the Lyr used and it's coming with the following tubes:
  - Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 - Matched+Balanced Triodes.
  Stock:
  - GE 6BZ7 / 6B07A
  - E88CC


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





denonbeaver said:


> Just purchased the Lyr, needed an upgrade for my LCD-2's which is currently running on the Asgard, can't wait to hear the difference. I've read a ton of pages in this thread, is there a general consensus on the top tubes to run with the Lyr? I bought the Lyr used and it's coming with the following tubes:
> - Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 - Matched+Balanced Triodes.
> Stock:
> - GE 6BZ7 / 6B07A
> - E88CC


 
   
  Well, most would agree that the Siemens & Halske CCa tubes are the probably the best, but they're extremely expensive and extremely hard to find.  So the challenge is finding tubes that are good, not too expensive, and obtainable.
   
  What's your budget for tubes?  That's probably a good place to start...
   
  You've at least got some tubes to start with.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *ilikepooters* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> These are the ones i bought: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370780524004?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> ...
> *EDIT* Only negative, which is really very minor, is the volume knob needs cranking up a very slight bit more than the other tubes i have.


 
   
  ... I grabbed the last pair folks. I figured for $30, what the hell.  As for the volume.. *shrug* sounds like its no different than the variance between recordings.
   
  Pretty sure I freaking missed a pair of S&H Grey plates for $20 last night. Got outbid by .50 because the stupid TV distracted me. SO.. ANGRY! I can hear the other guy giggling in my head.  *sigh* You know things are getting out of hand when...


----------



## toschek

^^ I'll second that....

Budget is important, so are your expectations. Lots of options out there, but to make any recommendations: What do you listen to? What volume do you listen at? What kind of characteristics are you looking for the tubes to impart (warmth, soundstage/separation, dynamics, emphasis of a frequency range/attenuation of a frequency range, and so on). The nice thing about tubes is that you can tailor the sound to your liking (and that's the bad part too.)

So share what you're specifically after and we'll try to help


----------



## toschek

On that note, I am going to say I've gone and upgraded so I'll be selling off my tube collection and Lyr. Tis bittersweet but I haven't had a decent 2ch system in going on 10 years and I just could not help myself after taking the plunge into head-fi. (It's a gateway drug I tell ya ...)

Anyway I'll have this Schiit and associated tubes up in classifieds in a week or so when the new kit gets here. None of my current tube arsenal is compatible with the integrated I picked up so I'm letting my whole 6922/6DJ8 stable go @ really good prices. If you see anything you might want in my profile, send a PM.


----------



## DenonBeaver

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Well, most would agree that the Siemens & Halske CCa tubes are the probably the best, but they're extremely expensive and extremely hard to find.  So the challenge is finding tubes that are good, not too expensive, and obtainable.
> 
> What's your budget for tubes?  That's probably a good place to start...
> 
> You've at least got some tubes to start with.


 
  I'd like to say i've got a budget but you know when it comes to this stuff budgets go out the window really quickly


----------



## DenonBeaver

Quote: 





toschek said:


> ^^ I'll second that....
> 
> Budget is important, so are your expectations. Lots of options out there, but to make any recommendations: What do you listen to? What volume do you listen at? What kind of characteristics are you looking for the tubes to impart (warmth, soundstage/separation, dynamics, emphasis of a frequency range/attenuation of a frequency range, and so on). The nice thing about tubes is that you can tailor the sound to your liking (and that's the bad part too.)
> 
> So share what you're specifically after and we'll try to help


 

 Completely understand. I listen to mostly rock, indie and electronic, volume is about 12pm on the asgard so a little louder than most on average. I can't list the characteristics i'm looking for until I hear the Lyr paired with the LCD-2 and the few different pairs of tubes. The LCD-2's are warm in my opinion to begin with obviously great midrange and low end. I'm probably going to be looking for slightly wider soundstage along with some increased brightness on the top end without sacrificing the lows and mids that i already love. LOL so basically i'm going to become a tube addict.


----------



## toschek

Lorenz SEL PCC189, Tungsram ECC88 or Telefunken 6922 at the expensive end of things might be a good fit for your headphones.   I've never had or tried LCD-2s so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## toschek

Check this thread too for recommendations, the Aune T1 uses the same tubes and the thread is pretty active:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/633006/aune-t1-usb-tube-dac-amp-discussion-thread-see-first-post-for-faq


----------



## NightFlight

Helpful information for those looking to wrap their heads around various tube sound signatures: http://vintageaudiotubes.com/
   
  Disclaimer: YMMV


----------



## MattTCG

Could someone kindly give me a quick take on these? Anything you can say about the sound signature would be appreciated...
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Could someone kindly give me a quick take on these? Anything you can say about the sound signature would be appreciated...
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm


 
  Some of my favorites!  Warm with pretty good bass and a slightly laid back but "creamy" smooth treble.  They sound very close to the made-in-Britain Mullards.  They do need some burn-in to smooth out but I found them a great overall tube for instrumental works (i.e. Fresh Aire) and some softer classic rock (Moody Blues and ELO).
   
  The above is IMHO & YMMV! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks HK!!


----------



## danielghofrani

Hi folks, started reading the thread but gave up at page 50!
  I listen to a lot of classical music and to me soundstage and seperation and clear sound is the most important. I dont want to go overboard with the tubes. I want to keep the cost reasonable. 
  what tubed do you recommend for me?
   
  edit: just how bad are the stock ones that come with the Lyr? you would think schiit audio would take some time to find out which tube works well and choose that as stock no?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





danielghofrani said:


> Hi folks, started reading the thread but gave up at page 50!
> I listen to a lot of classical music and to me soundstage and seperation and clear sound is the most important. I dont want to go overboard with the tubes. I want to keep the cost reasonable.
> what tubed do you recommend for me?
> 
> edit: just how bad are the stock ones that come with the Lyr? you would think schiit audio would take some time to find out which tube works well and choose that as stock no?


 
   
  Well they did a pretty good job with those 6BZ7s, they're not bad.  It's just that there are better out there.  But you must pay a price.
   
  I scored a nice pair of NOS Amperex USN-CEP 6922s on eBay for $185.00 this past weekend.  I wouldn't expect really good NOS tubes to be a lot cheaper than that.
   
  Those are still around, but it's not exactly like they grow on trees.  The Schiit guys had to go with tubes that were also readily available.  AND, they wanted to make the price attractive.  It's a balancing act, I think they did a pretty good job.
   
  Here's a link to some really good info on the tubes that will work in the Lyr:
   
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
   
  If you search this thread, MrScary also posted a list of his favorites.  
   
  If you can't read this entire thread those two sources should at least point you in a decent direction to start.  Good luck and have fun!


----------



## toschek

danielghofrani said:


> Hi folks, started reading the thread but gave up at page 50!
> I listen to a lot of classical music and to me soundstage and seperation and clear sound is the most important. I dont want to go overboard with the tubes. I want to keep the cost reasonable.
> what tubed do you recommend for me?
> 
> edit: just how bad are the stock ones that come with the Lyr? you would think schiit audio would take some time to find out which tube works well and choose that as stock no?




The lyr tubes are by no means terrible, but like nelamvr6 says there are better out there. The supplies of these super NOS tubes is unfortunately unreliable in addition to being rare. They have to go with what's readily available, otherwise they'll have supply chain issues, different versions out there, and both are a recipe for unhappy customers. 

Getting to your situation -- I listen to almost nothing but classical these days, early music/period instrument ensembles particularly. The Telefunken PCC189 has been very very good for me, esp. with HD800s. They are affordable too so you won't have to sell that many units of plasma.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





danielghofrani said:


> Hi folks, started reading the thread but gave up at page 50!
> I listen to a lot of classical music and to me soundstage and seperation and clear sound is the most important. I dont want to go overboard with the tubes. I want to keep the cost reasonable.
> what tubed do you recommend for me?
> 
> edit: just how bad are the stock ones that come with the Lyr? you would think schiit audio would take some time to find out which tube works well and choose that as stock no?


 
   
  The latest tubes i've tried sound like they could be just the ticket, i posted about them a couple pages back, cheap aswell. Siemens PCC189. to me they are the epitome of soundstage, separation and clarity. especially for their pricetag anyway.
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-x-Siemens-Halske-PCC189-7ES8-tube-NIB-superb-condition-/380540315473?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5899f86751
   
  I managed to get them for about £12 a pair, a few other headfiers bought up the remaining stock i think, so hopefully more impressions will appear in the next few weeks.
   
  Seems to be hard to find a seller that sells more than 1 tube atm, probably need to keep your eyes open for a little bit, and the ones i have are the tri-mica variant as posted above.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I've found another budget champion.
> 
> I ordered some Siemens PCC189 and Phillips PCC189 and they turned up today, just rolled in the Siemens and they sound the best by far of all the tubes i have.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Rolled in the Phillips PCC189's this morning (Made by Mullard, Blackburn plant.)
   
  Now i don't know if i can _love _this tube, but it does excite my ears.
   
  Compared to the Siemens PCC189's the warmth in the bass is immediately evident, i think this is that Mullard warmth everybody talks about, the treble is a tad bright to me, not the silky smooth treble typical of the Mullard brand (again from what others have said) but still not as bright as the Voshkod 6N1P's, and more detailed.
   
  Detail and separation are slightly less than the Siemens i feel, soundstage not as expansive, but more so than than the 6N1P's.
   
  Mids are there, hard to describe them really, don't stand out in any way but don't hide either.
   
  They're deffinately worth rolling in to have a listen though for the price.
   
  I bought a pair from this seller: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370780551600?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  Appear to be sold out now, but i paid £13.78 for the pair.
   
  There are others on ebay with the A frame dimple thing but are made in Holland, so i can't vouch for them sounding the same.


----------



## ilikepooters

Cheap Siemens PCC189's are back up! there was 2 sets but i ordered another pair as backup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221206571774?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  So only 1 set left.
   
  I'm putting my SEL Lorenz PCC88's and Phillips PCC189's up in the FS section if anyone's interested.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Rolled in the Phillips PCC189's this morning (Made by Mullard, Blackburn plant.)
> 
> Now i don't know if i can _love _this tube, but it does excite my ears.
> 
> Compared to the Siemens PCC189's the warmth in the bass is immediately evident, i think this is that Mullard warmth everybody talks about, *the treble is a tad bright to me*, not the silky smooth treble typical of the Mullard brand (again from what others have said) but still not as bright as the Voshkod 6N1P's, and more detailed.


 
   
  Every new tube I've tried has a bit of this. Some more than others. They all calm down a bit after 100+hrs. Some less than others.
   
  For instance, I one of my SEL Lorenz PCC88's blew up, so I went back to a backup pair. Their pretty good, but break-in is required all over again. I was listening all day after 20hrs of break-in. I switched to some Amperex 69's OGs that came in the mail. Great, but tad harsh again. Same thing - break-in _required_.  I jumped to my Siemens E88CCs which I previously felt I could not listen to due to the harshness. Recently I put a couple more nights of run-in on them to get them to ~125hrs.  LO and BEHOLD they sounded better than those nasty new tubes.  Their still harsh on the majority of recordings, but I haven't given up on them yet. Especially harsh metal guitars and cymbals (bloody kisses), but I found recordings I could now use them with.
  Today back to my Amperex '67's OGs that are fully broken in.  They sound a bit wooly by comparison, but their so smooth.
   
  I now use a crappy pair of HP for overnight tube break-in time. Seems to do the trick. I may just let those Siemens E88CCs run the whole long weekend to see if they can in fact be smoothed out or not, since they do everything else great.


----------



## Joong

The stoke tube of GE is wonderful for my ears with HE-5LE.
  I do not have chance to roll other tubes, but Wagner sounds very good.
  High is very clear and bass gets textured which is more richer than with HE400.
  Generally known that HE400 has more bass than He-5le but final impact for BASS of HE-5le is greater than of He-400.
  Simply the stock tubes is good enough for me, and might protect the amp by avoing unnecessary injecting mechanical stresses during the rolling processes.


----------



## NightFlight

Socket Savers


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





joong said:


> The stoke tube of GE is wonderful for my ears with HE-5LE.
> I do not have chance to roll other tubes, but Wagner sounds very good.
> High is very clear and bass gets textured which is more richer than with HE400.
> Generally known that HE400 has more bass than He-5le but final impact for BASS of HE-5le is greater than of He-400.
> Simply the stock tubes is good enough for me, and might protect the amp by avoing unnecessary injecting mechanical stresses during the rolling processes.


 
   
  Grats on the 100th post.


----------



## NightFlight

So can someone please confirm these are *NOT S&H grey plates?* http://www.ebay.ca/itm/221201936367?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2648
   
  I'm loosing sleep over this.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> So can someone please confirm these are *NOT S&H grey plates?* http://www.ebay.ca/itm/221201936367?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2648
> 
> I'm loosing sleep over this.


 
   
  Dunno, all the plates look pretty much grey to me


----------



## Joong

Hi guys.
  what do you think about "Amperex 6922 PQ E88CC Vacuum Tubes USA 6DJ8 E188CC 7308|, for which I am bidding?
  Is it good for He-5le?


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





joong said:


> Simply the stock tubes is good enough for me, and might protect the amp by avoing unnecessary injecting mechanical stresses during the rolling processes.


 
   
  Quote: 





joong said:


> Hi guys.
> what do you think about "Amperex 6922 PQ E88CC Vacuum Tubes USA 6DJ8 E188CC 7308|, for which I am bidding?
> Is it good for He-5le?


 
   
  That didn't take long.


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> That didn't take long.


 
  Because I became one of your who are all explorers to a better place.
  Let me control myself.


----------



## Joong

A vacuum tube extractor in the link below is OK with Lyr?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/160361805626?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648
   
  As I read through this thread, I think i need to buy one.
  Give me an advice.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





joong said:


> A vacuum tube extractor in the link below is OK with Lyr?
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/160361805626?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648
> 
> As I read through this thread, I think i need to buy one.
> Give me an advice.


 
   
  I just use the cheap chinese socket savers.
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-9-PIN-TUBE-SOCKET-SAVER-FOR-12AU7-12AU712AX7-ECC88-/290835055818?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b71ec4ca
   
  They come out of the sockets with the tubes still attached but atleast the tubes are taller so easier to grab and pull out.


----------



## claud W

My Lyr and Bifrost combo arrives tomorrow. After much thought, I am starting/breaking in withj Bugle Boy 6DJ8s. I can go up several notches from there and lots of steps that may be preceived,  below. I have two styles of S & H CCAs, I have Telfunken 6922 s and CCAs. I have numerous Amperex 6DJ8s and 6922s as well as 7308s, The fun begins after I put about 100 hours on my Schiit stack. 
   
  I'm sorry, I almost forgot I have Senn 600 with original Cardas wires and a new set of AKG 702s.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





joong said:


> Hi guys.
> what do you think about "Amperex 6922 PQ E88CC Vacuum Tubes USA 6DJ8 E188CC 7308|, for which I am bidding?
> Is it good for He-5le?


 
   
   
  I love my Amperexes, I think that so long as those tubes are in good shape, you're gonna like em!  
   
  I can understand why you wouldn't want to post a link to the auction, one of these bastids will likely try to snipe you!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  But can you paste the description here?  Are they NOS?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





claud w said:


> My Lyr and Bifrost combo arrives tomorrow. After much thought, I am starting/breaking in withj Bugle Boy 6DJ8s. I can go up several notches from there and lots of steps that may be preceived,  below. I have two styles of S & H CCAs, I have Telfunken 6922 s and CCAs. I have numerous Amperex 6DJ8s and 6922s as well as 7308s, The fun begins after I put about 100 hours on my Schiit stack.
> 
> I'm sorry, I almost forgot I have Senn 600 with original Cardas wires and a new set of AKG 702s.


 
   
  That to me sounds like an excellent plan!


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I love my Amperexes, I think that so long as those tubes are in good shape, you're gonna like em!
> 
> I can understand why you wouldn't want to post a link to the auction, one of these bastids will likely try to snipe you!
> 
> ...


 
  I don't know there is no indication of NOS.
  What does NOS mean?
  I have no idea that auction item is right for me or not.


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





joong said:


> I don't know there is no indication of NOS.
> What does NOS mean?
> I have no idea that auction item is right for me or not.


 
   
  New Old Stock


----------



## Joong

NOS means that Stock is a collection of past production, which had been out of production?
  It is confusing..


----------



## nelamvr6

NOS is what you really want, but used tubes can work really well also.
   
  As Radioking59 said, NOS means New Old Stock.  This means that the tubes are new, never been used, but that they were made a while ago.  In some cases, a LONG time ago.
   
  The problem with buying used tubes is that you really have no way of knowing how many hours they've been used.  And when you're shelling out significant dollars, that's at least a medium risk.
   
  But bear in mind, eBay can be a risky place for tube hunters in general.  There are people out there who know that guys like us want NOS tubes, so they use that buzzword to jack up their prices, and sell used tubes, or newly made tubes that they fake to look like old tubes.  So go with a reputable seller, and read the seller's feedback.


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> NOS is what you really want, but used tubes can work really well also.
> 
> As Radioking59 said, NOS means New Old Stock.  This means that the tubes are new, never been used, but that they were made a while ago.  In some cases, a LONG time ago.
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you very much for the useful information.
  Newly made ones can be of low quality even though they can use the same tools to produce, the tool set can not be maintained in good condition due to a long-been dead time?


----------



## Radioking59

I'm new to tubes too. I found this. The author seems to know what he is talking about. 
   
http://www.audiotubes.com/nos.htm


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





joong said:


> Thank you very much for the useful information.
> Newly made ones can be of low quality even though they can use the same tools to produce, the tool set can not be maintained in good condition due to a long-been dead time?


 
   
   
  Well, there are a lot of theories about why tubes from the old days are better, but precious few hard facts.
   
  Remember, back in the day tubes weren't a luxury, transistors were still not as common place.  They hadn't taken over, and integrated circuits were still just a twinkle in the eyes of engineers with pocket protectors and slide rules.
   
  So tubes were being made by the millions by big factories.  Naturally people got really good at making tubes.  
   
  Today people are still making tubes, but not nearly as many.  And some of the secrets of the tube masters seem to have died with them.
   
  But modern day tubes aren't horrible, some of them are quite good.  But crazy audiophiles like us don't really want "quite good", we want the magic!  That's why we look for the tubes made by the tube masters.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> I'm new to tubes too. I found this. The author seems to know what he is talking about.
> 
> http://www.audiotubes.com/nos.htm


 
   
  That's a great link!  Thanks!


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I love my Amperexes, I think that so long as those tubes are in good shape, you're gonna like em!
> 
> I can understand why you wouldn't want to post a link to the auction, one of these bastids will likely try to snipe you!
> 
> ...


 
   
  ... well I wouldn't. But those damn lurkers would.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I love my Amperexes, I think that so long as those tubes are in good shape, you're gonna like em!
> 
> I can understand why you wouldn't want to post a link to the auction, one of these bastids will likely try to snipe you!
> 
> ...


 
   
  They weren't hard to find.
   
  "Tested on my TV7 with a min of 50, One tested 78/74 The other 78/78 Sold as is, no returns."
   
  So, not NOS. But testing "ok". They will likely go for somewhere around $125-175 or more. NOS in this class around $200-250, or Buy It Now NOS for the crazy price of $350. The majority of bidding will occur in the last 2-3 seconds by snipers.
   
  Joong, this is a large jump for a first purchase if your not certain.  There is a distinct lack of photos in that posting.
   
  Proper listings should show all the angles like this one:
  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-New-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Mullard-tube-valve-1970s-tested-/230954886931?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35c5fbe713
   
  From that listing I can see the dimple getter, the pins, and all of the internals. With gold pins its easy to see wear and pictures can tell a story there.
   
  Then again, the Amperex PQ white shield is getting rare and listings are of random quality as a result. Good luck!


----------



## Joong

Thanks guys,
 CCa E88CC 6922 CV2492 Mullard tube valve 1970's tested
Is it good one?
I read that Mullard has milky high or smoothe sound.


----------



## Joong

Hi guys, could you look at this for the compatibility with Lyr?
   
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/290614310990?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


----------



## ab_ba

Can someone make a recommendation for tubes to drive HE-500s? I'd rather go with something Schiit sells - E88CC, 6N1P, 6B7Z. Or, order from someone with a good reputation. I'm about to order a Lyr/Bifrost. I'll be thrilled if it sounds great right away, and I'll experiment with rolling later on. Thanks!


----------



## ForsakenArcher

6N1P and 6B27 are quite OK. E88CC are very thin sounding. Each has its own character. I prefer 6N1P for their richer and fuller sound. 6B27s on my system sounds like treble is tamed more than I would want it to be. They do have wider soundstage and more intimate vocals though. I have never tried any tube beyond those 3sets ordered from Schiit. I would be interested in sub $100 range tubes though. Don't feel like putting in much $ into tube rolling.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





ab_ba said:


> Can someone make a recommendation for tubes to drive HE-500s? I'd rather go with something Schiit sells - E88CC, 6N1P, 6B7Z. Or, order from someone with a good reputation. I'm about to order a Lyr/Bifrost. I'll be thrilled if it sounds great right away, and I'll experiment with rolling later on. Thanks!


 
   
  Depends on how the sound signature of HE-500 is and also, what do you want to add/remove to/from that signature?
   
  Also budget, if you don't set a budget people will be telling you to get all sorts of $400 tubes.
   
  With my experience with the Schiit tubes, their 6N1P-VI (Novosibirsk) tube is very warm with the treble muddy and rolled off, the GE 6BZ7 is quite neutral, and pretty mediocre in every way, does everything well but not really outstanding, maybe a tad bright in the treble.
   
  Whatever E88CC tube schiit supplies i haven't tried.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

^
  What tubes you are using now? My budget will be around 100USD for a pair of tubes.


----------



## ab_ba

Quote: 





forsakenarcher said:


> Don't feel like putting in much $ into tube rolling.


 
  Thanks Archer and Pooters. Yeah, when people talk about tubes that cost as much as the amp itself, I get nervous. I'll grab 2 of what Schiit offers, and see if it makes any perceptible difference at all before I start really exploring.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





forsakenarcher said:


> ^
> What tubes you are using now? My budget will be around 100USD for a pair of tubes.


 
   
  Lorenz PCC88 and Siemens PCC189 are my favourites at the moment.
   
  Quote: 





ab_ba said:


> Thanks Archer and Pooters. Yeah, when people talk about tubes that cost as much as the amp itself, I get nervous. I'll grab 2 of what Schiit offers, and see if it makes any perceptible difference at all before I start really exploring.


 
   
  There are some really good budget tubes to be had.
   
  I bought some Siemens PCC189 tubes and they are a lot better than any of the stock tubes, also Lorenz PCC88 tubes were bit more expensive but again, improvement over stock tubes. These are both my tubes of choice at the moment.
   
  You don't need to spend a fortune to get better sound.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Where do you get them? May I ask?


----------



## paradoxper

Link
   
  Don't bother looking for the real deal Lorenz. They don't exist.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


>





> Don't bother looking for the real deal Lorenz. They don't exist.


 
   
  You mean these? 3 micas?
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E88CC-LORENZ-SIEMENS-A0-NOS-6922-GOLD-PIN-TUBE-TUBES-VALVOLE-RARE-MATCHED-PAIR-/350748216038?pt=Altro_Audio_da_Casa&hash=item51aa390ae6
   
  Not sure if that's what all the fuss is about, not read back that far in the thread.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> You mean these? 3 micas?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E88CC-LORENZ-SIEMENS-A0-NOS-6922-GOLD-PIN-TUBE-TUBES-VALVOLE-RARE-MATCHED-PAIR-/350748216038?pt=Altro_Audio_da_Casa&hash=item51aa390ae6
> 
> Not sure if that's what all the fuss is about, not read back that far in the thread.


 
  Those are Stuttgart's, I believe. However of the many pair I had all were PCC88 not sure what SQ differences,
  but those differ by not being 7 volts.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Those are Stuttgart's, I believe. However of the many pair I had all were PCC88 not sure what SQ differences,
> but those differ by not being 7 volts.


 
   
  Ahh i see, so that's why everyone jumped on the SEL Lorenz PCC88's, hoping they would sound the same. I'm assuming same tooling was used, just made by another company? So sound should be pretty close if not exact?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Ahh i see, so that's why everyone jumped on the SEL Lorenz PCC88's, hoping they would sound the same. I'm assuming same tooling was used, just made by another company? So sound should be pretty close if not exact?


 
  The SEL's are pretty good comparatively to other affordable tubes. They're actually much better than most of the mid-tier tubes.
   
  They don't really sound the same though.
   
  Real Lorenz are older, rarer, etc and more importantly made in Germany. SEL made not in Germany but other parts of Europe.
  I believe the more popular SEL are Nish Yugoslavian made.
   
  The plants are what make the differences, different tech, better resources, etc.


----------



## claud W

Got my Lyr & Bifrost today. Started with BB 6DJ8s. So far, very nice.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





claud w said:


> Got my Lyr & Bifrost today. Started with BB 6DJ8s. So far, very nice.


 

 Welcome!


----------



## Joong

Hi guys,
   
  The difference between tubes are significant enough to justify the expense?
  This size of this thread can represent this quality duifference?
  My Lyr has Stock GE tube, and I am considering an upgrade to 100 USD worth path.


----------



## Shazb0t

Quote: 





joong said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> The difference between tubes are significant enough to justify the expense?
> This size of this thread can represent this quality duifference?
> My Lyr has Stock GE tube, and I am considering an upgrade to 100 USD worth path.


 
   
  I was under the impression that with the output transducer tube rolling effects are significantly lessened?
   
  Clearly at 406 pages you guys don't agree with that lol.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





joong said:


> Hi guys, could you look at this for the compatibility with Lyr?
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/290614310990?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


 
   
   
  Are you looking for socket savers?  Try these: http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm


----------



## nelamvr6

The differences that I have heard with the limited tube rolling I've done have been what I would call dramatic.  That's going from the GE 6BZ7s that came with the Lyr.
   
  I was as skeptical as you, but now I am completely convinced.
   
  I was also skeptical about burn in, but now I know, at least with tubes, it's completely real!   So when you do try a new pair of tubes, give them a while to burn in.
   
  This thread is there guys, all you have to do is read!  You can also search within this thread...


----------



## Joong

Yes I was looking for the socket saver not for the socket itself.
  Thanks


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





joong said:


> Yes I was looking for the socket saver not for the socket itself.
> Thanks


 
   
  I just use cheap chinese made socket savers, they work well enough for me.
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-9-PIN-TUBE-SOCKET-SAVER-FOR-12AU7-12AU712AX7-ECC88-/290835055818?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b71ec4ca


----------



## claud W




----------



## Joong

Those are all yours?, claud W.


----------



## claud W

Just a few tubes to roll into the Lyr. Here is my headphone rig as assembled today. If you do not believe in cables, please do not comment.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





claud w said:


>


 
   
  You have another amp or are you rolling those 12v tubes in your Lyr? i see some 12BZ7 and 12AY7.


----------



## Joong

claud W,
  I do believe in twisted cable, because the twisting cancells out the noise and possibly the inductance related to the straight wire.
  Also I do believe that intermodulation of signals with bad quality of connection and wire plating with strong magnetic materials.
   
  What brand are those interconnection cables?


----------



## claud W

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> You have another amp or are you rolling those 12v tubes in your Lyr? i see some 12BZ7 and 12AY7.


 
  My Cary V12 R uses 12BZ7s and EL84s for driver tubes.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





joong said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> The difference between tubes are significant enough to justify the expense?
> This size of this thread can represent this quality duifference?
> My Lyr has Stock GE tube, and I am considering an upgrade to 100 USD worth path.


 
   
  The differences can be significant, yes.  Significant enough to justify the expense is truly in the eye of the beholder though.   I found a difference worth almost $400 in the Telefunken 6922, they are perfect to me.  I found a difference in the Amperex 7308s that was worth $200 to me.   It was worth that to me because my music took on a different character with these tubes vs. stock.
   
  I think this thread's size doesn't necessarily indicate the difference in quality of various tubes.  Rather, it probably illustrates some genuinely interesting reading, a lot of great recommendations and descriptions, some less than great recommendations and descriptions and a fair number of people on either side of the question of degree of difference fighting amongst themselves.
   
  Anyway, it's a fun thread and a great resource but like everything else audio related your ears as the listener are the only ears that really count.   Take people's recommendations of course, but you're going to have to experiment with these tubes yourself for the most part to see what you like.  Hopefully you have some friends where you live that share your hobby so you can swap tubes with them and try different things, or go to a meet when there's one in your area and find your fellow tube nuts    I think $100 should land you some great tubes.   I would look for Brimar/Ediswan or Mullard CV2492 tubes in that price range.   They are excellent, last a good while and have a very nice warm and liquid sound.


----------



## tjl5709

This thread  to me is the evolution of the Lyr over the past couple years. People pick one up, find this thread, explore tube rolling, find the tubs that fit their music and budget, then move on. New people show up, and the cycle continues.


----------



## claud W

Quote: 





joong said:


> claud W,
> I do believe in twisted cable, because the twisting cancells out the noise and possibly the inductance related to the straight wire.
> Also I do believe that intermodulation of signals with bad quality of connection and wire plating with strong magnetic materials.
> 
> What brand are those interconnection cables?


 
  The ugly interconnects are Luminous Audio Synchestra Signature and the digital coax is Stereovox.


----------



## sceleratus

interesting thread, lots of good info.


----------



## toschek

Welcome to the 6DJ8 family proving grounds


----------



## sceleratus

thanks


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





ab_ba said:


> Thanks Archer and Pooters. Yeah, when people talk about tubes that cost as much as the amp itself, I get nervous. I'll grab 2 of what Schiit offers, and see if it makes any perceptible difference at all before I start really exploring.


 
   
  Also keep in mind they are basically light bulbs. They will eventually burn out and stop working.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Also keep in mind they are basically light bulbs. They will eventually burn out and stop working.


 
   
  But then again people buy consumable devices in this price range all the time without much thought. Think tablets. The battery dies and then there is basically little point to trying to replace it. Life on a tablet battery would be around 1800-4000 hours. Tubes 3000-5000-10000 hours depending on make and type for a pair.
   
  It comes down to what you want, what is important to you and your habits.


----------



## BeAsTMode4MVP

After two years, is there any consensus on what are the better tubes to match with the LCD-2 Rev 2? Searching "LCD" in this thread brings up 472 posts! Any specific pages in this thread with a wealth of info on this pairing? Thanks.


----------



## BeAsTMode4MVP

By the way, I am pretty impressed with how this thing sounds with the stock GEs. And the Bifrost as well, very happy with my Schiit.


----------



## sceleratus

+1
  so  many posts


----------



## paradoxper

+1 Read them all.


----------



## toschek

Well, my new baby is here --
   
   

   
  ... anyone want to buy a used Lyr?   6N1P and a set of JJ E88CCs included.


----------



## hodgjy

That is one gorgeous amp.  Congrats.
   
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> Well, my new baby is here --
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## claud W

Looks like the Cary equipment in my main system


----------



## claud W

Quote: 





beastmode4mvp said:


> By the way, I am pretty impressed with how this thing sounds with the stock GEs. And the Bifrost as well, very happy with my Schiit.


 
  Me too!! My Lyr & Bifrost combo is a nice step up from the headphone setup/kit I had. This ain't state of the art, but its very nice, musical and resolving with PRAT. I got Seimens & H CCAs , Telfunken 6922s & CCas and two other Amprex 6922 varients to try.   How many hours does it take for the Lyr to break in??


----------



## nelamvr6

There's burn in for the chassis, then there's burn in for the tubes. 

 The 100 hour number was thrown around a lot in this thread, personally I noticed a fairly big difference in my tubes after about 20 hours. I guess it depends on the tubes, some may continue to change for the entire 100 hours, some may stabilize after a shorter period of time. 

But either way the chassis should have burned in by the time you're done with your first pair of tubes. 

Sent from my Android phone.


----------



## claud W

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> There's burn in for the chassis, then there's burn in for the tubes.
> 
> The 100 hour number was thrown around a lot in this thread, personally I noticed a fairly big difference in my tubes after about 20 hours. I guess it depends on the tubes, some may continue to change for the entire 100 hours, some may stabilize after a shorter period of time.
> 
> ...


 
  I'm only interested in the Lyr chassis burn in. I have used my tubes in various systems just rolling them in for tuning. Most have 20-30 hours. I haven't had a 6922 application in ten years.


----------



## nelamvr6

In that case, I'd give it 20 hours. 

Sent from my Android phone.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

What's the difference between these two items? Furthermore, they are from same seller.
   
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-Matched-Pair-Siemens-70th-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-E88CC-01-Cca-TUBES-/281080866655?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4171b9a75f
   
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Matched-Pair-H-P-MLUUARD-A-Frame-ECC88-6DJ8-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Cca-TUBES-/271175276100?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f234e5644
   
   
  And this item too?
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-e88cc-CV2492-goldpin-/271181223746?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f23a91742&autorefresh=true


----------



## toschek

The two top ones are not the same at all.
  
 The Siemens first tube has no writing on it and a halo getter. _(Ed. I can't tell from the markings if this is a Siemens or not, I am not a master at visually IDing tubes yet.)_
  
 The second one is a Mullard A-Frame made for Hewlett Packard.
  
 The third one is a Mullard E88CC.
  
 If you want a generic description of the sound of these tube types check out any of the huge number of links provided throughout the thread.  Here are some to get you started:
  
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html
http://www.audiotubes.com/
  
 Do some reading and see.   It's better not to ask an open ended question like the one you posed, when you ask "what is the difference between these tubes, they come from the same dealer" it's like going to a used car lot and asking "whats the difference between these cars, the same sweaty fat man with no morals is trying to sell one to me."   It is a real case of needing to do your homework and maintaining your skepticism even here when people praise tubes.   The same tube that does great for one person may totally suck for you, and with the amount of $$ these things cost, it pays to educate yourself and not just rely on the board to help you.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Thanks for your pointers and providing the links.


----------



## toschek

forsakenarcher said:


> Thanks for your pointers and providing the links.




You are welcome, and I sure hope that you don't feel like I was being rude or mean. I just want you to find the best option for you, and unfortunately that means you'll have to do a lot of homework. It's fun stuff though


----------



## ForsakenArcher

No worries. I understand your intentions. I just want to play around with tubes and Lyr before finally settling on a solid state amp (currently I have Burson Soloist in mind) a few months later or end  of the year, probably.  I would like to try some affordable pairs and appreciate the change in sound brought about by them. Not aiming for anything more than 100 dollar. I am thinking even $100 is huge enough for me.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





forsakenarcher said:


> What's the difference between these two items? Furthermore, they are from same seller.
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-Matched-Pair-Siemens-70th-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-E88CC-01-Cca-TUBES-/281080866655?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4171b9a75f


 
   
  If these are in fact Siemens, they're newer 70's type. Can be seen by the thin stick that holds up the getter. The older ones use a heavier made shaft, which I've found out the hard way is what we should look for. The newer ones are a bit high and shrieky. Mine haven't calmed down yet and wondering if break in will ever do it. Siemens do have a better sound stage than any other tube I've tried. IMHO, YMMV


----------



## meltdown117

Hello, I decided not to bother reading all the previous posts.
  Can anyone summarize what are the best tubes for this amp? Thank you


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





meltdown117 said:


> Hello, I decided not to bother reading all the previous posts.
> Can anyone summarize what are the best tubes for this amp? Thank you


 
   
  +1


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





meltdown117 said:


> Hello, I decided not to bother reading all the previous posts.
> Can anyone summarize what are the best tubes for this amp? Thank you


 
   
  In no particular order, these would be the most popular/sought after.
   
  Mullard E88CC gold pins
  Valvo E88CC red label
  Valvo CCa
  Siemens CCa
  Siemens E88CC grey shield
  Amperex orange globe
  Telefunken E88CC
  Lorenz PCC88 (original stuttgart, unobtanium)
   
   
  Probably some i've missed but they should get you started if you want top dollar tubes.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Quote: 





meltdown117 said:


> Hello, I decided not to bother reading all the previous posts.
> Can anyone summarize what are the best tubes for this amp? Thank you


 
 I get it.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Don't confuse warm up with burn in (or run in).
> 
> Tubes should be warmed up in about ten minutes.  But the sound signature will change over time until it reaches a somewhat final state.  Exactly when this happens is subject to some debate.  Did you get the GEs or the JJs?


 
  i was surprised to find that it is only 11 seconds. at least that is the warm-up time stated for the heaters in the specification for a 6bn8.  while the 6bn8 is not compatible with a lyr they have the same 6.3V heater specification.  it could take longer for the cathode to reach a temp where it begins to emit electrons.  it that is the case why bother with a heater spec because it would mean nothing.   regardless, with this spec it would be far shorter than 10 minutes.  again, i was surprised to find this factoid.  just say'n
   
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b04l50w2dydl11q/4SZUWYVv-2


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





toschek said:


> The differences can be significant, yes.  Significant enough to justify the expense is truly in the eye of the beholder though.   I found a difference worth almost $400 in the Telefunken 6922, they are perfect to me.  I found a difference in the Amperex 7308s that was worth $200 to me.   It was worth that to me because my music took on a different character with these tubes vs. stock.
> 
> I think this thread's size doesn't necessarily indicate the difference in quality of various tubes.  Rather, it probably illustrates some genuinely interesting reading, a lot of great recommendations and descriptions, some less than great recommendations and descriptions and a fair number of people on either side of the question of degree of difference fighting amongst themselves.
> 
> Anyway, it's a fun thread and a great resource but like everything else audio related your ears as the listener are the only ears that really count.   Take people's recommendations of course, but you're going to have to experiment with these tubes yourself for the most part to see what you like.  Hopefully you have some friends where you live that share your hobby so you can swap tubes with them and try different things, or go to a meet when there's one in your area and find your fellow tube nuts    I think $100 should land you some great tubes.   I would look for Brimar/Ediswan or Mullard CV2492 tubes in that price range.   They are excellent, last a good while and have a very nice warm and liquid sound.


 
  Thanks for an excellent summary.
  Telefuken 6922 = Telefuken E88CC 6922 Siemans 60s ?
  Based on your statement for evaluation, I am after " Telefuken E88CC 6922 Siemans 60s".


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> i was surprised to find that it is only 11 seconds. at least that is the warm-up time stated for the heaters in the specification for a 6bn8.  while the 6bn8 is not compatible with a lyr they have the same 6.3V heater specification.  it could take longer for the cathode to reach a temp where it begins to emit electrons.  it that is the case why bother with a heater spec because it would mean nothing.   regardless, with this spec it would be far shorter than 10 minutes.  again, i was surprised to find this factoid.  just say'n
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b04l50w2dydl11q/4SZUWYVv-2


 
   
  There is more to"warming up" than just the cathode heater coming up to temp.
   
  I can remember sitting in front of a TV set that was all tube, waiting for it to warm up so we could watch our favorite cartoons.  All of those metal structures inside that glass envelope will expand as they heat up, and that will change the operating characteristics of the tube.
   
  There's no doubt that you will be able to start playing music through your Lyr almost immediately, but the SQ will change as the tubes warm up.  Some people say that this requires more than ten minutes.  But I think that 10 minutes is at least sufficient.


----------



## claud W

I always give my tube equipment 30 minutes to warm up. Most of my tubes are older than me and I am just 65.
  I think I'm ready to try some Siemens.


----------



## Joong

Lyr + a pair of good tubes > Mjolnir ?


----------



## hodgjy

Depends on what you're looking for.  If you want tube bloom in the midrage, then yes.  If you want laser-like detail, low noise floor, and dogmatically vigilant (not my words), then no.
   
  Quote: 





joong said:


> Lyr + a pair of good tubes > Mjolnir ?


----------



## gerald410

joong said:


> Lyr + a pair of good tubes > Mjolnir ?




Still breaking in my stock tubes, waiting for my aftermarket headphone cables. Still enjoying the hell out of my Schiit stack (Bifrost/Lyr).


----------



## Joong

One of us indicates cost ( Lyr + Telefunken tube) = Lyr value 450 + Telefunken value 400 = 850 > 740 USD of Mjolnir.
  This might raise some argues.
   
  Especially the market price of high end tube pair for Lyr ranges from somewhere 300 to 500 USD.
  It is very surprising and generates some question about SS amplifier's limitation.
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Depends on what you're looking for.  If you want tube bloom in the midrage, then yes.  If you want laser-like detail, low noise floor, and dogmatically vigilant (not my words), then no.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





joong said:


> Lyr + a pair of good tubes > Mjolnir ?


 
  Not a chance. But of course, it all comes down to what you're looking for preference wise, etc.


----------



## Joong

I see now there is a good reason where the cost of Mjolnir is justified.
  Some of those who had posted this thread migrated to Mjolnir for that reason.
  The reason based on subtlety which usually is not expressible by numbers like THD that dictates details of sound.
  Lyr is of about 0.1% whereas Mjolnir can be 0.01% without mentioning IMDs.
   
  When we think that there are so many parameters to affect SQ, the preference comes down eventually to a set of number that could not be applicable uniformly to every machine set.


----------



## toschek

Keep in mind too Mjolnir is balanced only, so you will most likely have to recable your headphones which isn't free and you will probably need a new DAC too. The Gungnir isn't recommended either as it is supposed to be bright and fatiguing.


----------



## Joong

However I agree that decent SS amp are generally all similar.


----------



## DutchGFX

Just bought some Siemens, don't know which version tho lol


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Just bought some Siemens, don't know which version tho lol


 
   Link?


----------



## BobJS

I just received some tubes from Bulgaria .... 2 matched for $13.60 + $9 shipping .... wasn't expecting much, but these sound very good .... though the bass is overemphasized.  This makes them perfect, however for driving something like my Q701 phones, for example.  The price went up a few dollars since I purchased, but this is a very inexpensive buy.  Oh, they're Voskhod 6N1P / ECC88 Gold Grid tubes.
   
Linky


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I just received some tubes from Bulgaria .... 2 matched for $13.60 + $9 shipping .... wasn't expecting much, but these sound very good .... though the bass is overemphasized.  This makes them perfect, however for driving something like my Q701 phones, for example.  The price went up a few dollars since I purchased, but this is a very inexpensive buy.  Oh, they're Voskhod 6N1P / ECC88 Gold Grid tubes.
> 
> Linky


 
  I saw those and was tempted to try them out.  Please continue to give us your impressions as they settle in...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I just received some tubes from Bulgaria .... 2 matched for $13.60 + $9 shipping .... wasn't expecting much, but these sound very good .... though the bass is overemphasized.  This makes them perfect, however for driving something like my Q701 phones, for example.  The price went up a few dollars since I purchased, but this is a very inexpensive buy.  Oh, they're Voskhod 6N1P / ECC88 Gold Grid tubes.
> 
> Linky


 
   
  I have the same tubes.
   
  I find the soundstage not very expansive compared to other tubes, but that bass warmth is very nice indeed, and the sparkly treble, a very pleasant U shape of a sound signature.
   
  You'll soon find that they run very hot


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I have the same tubes.
> 
> I find the soundstage not very expansive compared to other tubes, but that bass warmth is very nice indeed, and the sparkly treble, a very pleasant U shape of a sound signature.
> 
> You'll soon find that they run very hot


 
  Agreed, regarding the sound stage, in fact, regarding everything, although I haven't been running them long enough to burn anything down yet.


----------



## claud W

Rolled in one of my Siemens CCa pairs last night. First hour they sounded flat and uninteresting. Second hour they got very linear and fast quickly. This must have been a true NOS (new/unused) pair. Not as jucy midrange as Bugle Boy 6DJ8s. Just got home and warming up my stack. These might be better for my HD600s--we will see.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Agreed, regarding the sound stage, in fact, regarding everything, although I haven't been running them long enough to burn anything down yet.


 
   
  I think the best Russian tube is the 6N23P-EV made by Reflector/Saratov.
   
  Not got them myself yet but from what i can glean from the interweb they have excellent bass, very transparent, speed, detail, massive soundstage and airy natural highs.
   
  I think they will be my next tube purchase.


----------



## DutchGFX

70th small ogetter Cca


----------



## toschek

ilikepooters said:


> I think the best Russian tube is the 6N23P-EV made by Reflector/Saratov.
> 
> Not got them myself yet but from what i can glean from the interweb they have excellent bass, very transparent, speed, detail, massive soundstage and airy natural highs.
> 
> I think they will be my next tube purchase.




Yeah, that description is not very accurate. I found the soundstage to be average, it has slightly better bass and mids than the regular 6N23P but very shrieky highs and sub par (compared to say amperex a-frame dimple getter 6dj8) detail. Even though the rocket logo 623NP has a smaller soundstage (intimate would be a better word), it's a much better tube. 

All in all I do not think the 6N23P-EV is worth the asking price and you would be better off with something else.


----------



## claud W

I have two headphones I am using. AKG 702 and a set of Senn HD600s w/Cardas cord. The 600s did not like the BB 6DJ8s--too smooth and homoginized sound. The 702s were just lovely with a nice midrange, decent bass and for me smooth highs. Remember--I'm 65 and my hearing ain't what it useta be. The CCas are as advertised. They wake up the 600s and further kick the 702n dynamics into high gear. I been listening to Patricia Barber and Sade. I think its almost time to do some Jack Johnson and a bit of ATB


----------



## 333jeffery

If you can find them the Amperex USN and Telefunken E288CC tubes are wonderful in the Lyr. My favorites by far.


----------



## Joong

"Siemens E88CC Dual Triode Tubes Gold Pins E88cc 6922 7308 6DJ8 CCa"
   
  is it a Siemens CCA?


----------



## claud W

Quote: 





joong said:


> "Siemens E88CC Dual Triode Tubes Gold Pins E88cc 6922 7308 6DJ8 CCa"
> 
> is it a Siemens CCA?


 
  Yes. I also have Telefunken 6922s and CCas yet to try, but I may return to Amperex PQ and 7308s first.


----------



## toschek

claud w said:


> Yes. I also have Telefunken 6922s and CCas yet to try, but I may return to Amperex PQ and 7308s first.




I know what you mean, there is just something special about the Amperex 7308 and PQ tubes. 

I had a chance to hear some Siemens CCa tubes over the past weekend and I know this is going to sound sacrilegious but I don't get it! These tubes are good but I don't think other than relative rarity they should command the prices that they do. For the price of one set of CCas you could pick up two or three sets of excellent alternatives. I'd much rather have a set of '58 Bugle Boy d-getters personally. I just chalk their popularity up to hype TBH and move on when I see them being discussed.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I just received some tubes from Bulgaria .... 2 matched for $13.60 + $9 shipping .... wasn't expecting much, but these sound very good .... though the bass is overemphasized.  This makes them perfect, however for driving something like my Q701 phones, for example.  The price went up a few dollars since I purchased, but this is a very inexpensive buy.  Oh, they're Voskhod 6N1P / ECC88 Gold Grid tubes.
> 
> Linky


 

 I ordered the same tubes too. Price is good enough for trying out and having fun. Still waiting for them though. I guess it will take about two weeks to get here.


----------



## Glam Bash

I had 2 "golden dragons" go microphonic this week. It sound like static in the background. Will tube dampers Fix this or are the tubes done?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

That's strange that two tubes would go out like that, did it happen at the same time. Have you tried another pair to see if they exhibit the same problem.
   
  Dampers will help reduce vibration in the tube but static is a different issue 
   
  also if you haven't yet,  try reseating the tubes in the amp, that has helped when I've had tube weirdness in the past


----------



## ilikepooters

More Siemens PCC189's have gone up on sale, i really can't reccomend these tubes highly enough, they absolutely trounce the stock tubes, absolute bargain.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-PCC189-7ES8-SIEMENS-NOS-NEW-OWN-BOX-/221207288653?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Elektronenr%C3%B6hren_Valves&hash=item3380fb5b4d
   
  Looks like they'll keep turning up every so often.
   
  I'm intrigued to try the ECC189 variant now, only 6.3v heater instead of 7.6v so should be more akin to E88CC or CCa.


----------



## Glam Bash

The tube in the right channel got noisy and about 3 days later the left side got noisy too. No problems with 2 other sets of tubes I've used in the meantime. Kind of a shame as they had a real synergy with the Maddogs.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

It does sound like its the tubes then, sorry man. At least (I'm assuming you ment) gold lions are not to difficult to come by


----------



## Flisker

ilikepooters said:


> More Siemens PCC189's have gone up on sale, i really can't reccomend these tubes highly enough, they absolutely trounce the stock tubes, absolute bargain.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-PCC189-7ES8-SIEMENS-NOS-NEW-OWN-BOX-/221207288653?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Elektronenr%C3%B6hren_Valves&hash=item3380fb5b4d
> 
> Looks like they'll keep turning up every so often.
> ...




Are they better than than Lorenz E88CC ? I got Lyr yesterday tried some tubes and so far like most E88CC's. I like airy, aggresive and dynamic mids and bass with as good impact as it gets  Using Lyr with HD650.

Also do you guys think this -> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/290614310990?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1600wt_754 

is compatible with Lyr ? Don't think where should that long middle bolt go, because there is no hole in main sockets if I'am not wrong.

And these savers -> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-9-PIN-TUBE-SOCKET-SAVER-FOR-12AU7-12AU712AX7-ECC88-/290835055818?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b71ec4ca

looks like they are made from pretty cheap materials won't it affect sound somehow ?

Thanks for info guys.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Are they better than than Lorenz E88CC ? I got Lyr yesterday tried some tubes and so far like most E88CC's. I like airy, aggresive and dynamic mids and bass with as good impact as it gets
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've tried the SEL Lorenz PCC88's and i have to say i prefer the sound of the Siemens over those, but not tried any E88CC Lorenz tubes yet.
   
  I wouldn't say the Siemens have massive bass impact, more like a subtle warmth, but the 650's are a warm can anyway, so can probably get away with a less bassy tube.
  I don't know how to describe mids other than recessed or not, but vocals sound superb on the Siemens as far as i can tell.
  Treble is smooth and airy, not bright at all, but aren't the 650's a bit veiled in the high's? could do with some sparkle from what i've read on them.
   
  Soundstage is expansive, more so than any other tube i've got.
   
  Don't know if all that helps any.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> More Siemens PCC189's have gone up on sale, i really can't reccomend these tubes highly enough, they absolutely trounce the stock tubes, absolute bargain.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-PCC189-7ES8-SIEMENS-NOS-NEW-OWN-BOX-/221207288653?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Elektronenr%C3%B6hren_Valves&hash=item3380fb5b4d
> 
> Looks like they'll keep turning up every so often.
> ...


 
  I bought a pair wish me luck


----------



## Flisker

Bought pair too  They are on fire :basshead:

Btw, I know it's off topic, but do any of you guys know how to unscrew screws on the bottom of Lyr so I could open it + what switch for power on/off is used in Lyr ? (Got my Lyr pretty fu**ed up during shipping and switch is broken so I would like to solder there new one)


----------



## Flisker

So got answer from seller , just for info... this is not compatible with Lyr -> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/290614310990?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1600wt_754


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





flisker said:


> So got answer from seller , just for info... this is not compatible with Lyr -> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/290614310990?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1600wt_754


 
   
  Your Lyr already has sockets, so it's not something you'll need to buy unless you break your sockets.


----------



## sceleratus

stuff that only interests me..
   
   
 "The first grids were not placed close to the filament. The hot wire filament sagged out of shape and the grid had to be kept clear. It was only later that it was discovered that the closer the control gid was placed to the cathode and the more closely the turns of the wire spiral to one another the more effect on the control of the electron stream it had. Over time the grid changed from the original grid iron shape through a helix of stiff wire supported on a support rod to a mechanically produced piece of precision engineering. Automated grid production centred on winding fine wire round two support rods. The machine would notich the (Nickel) support rod, lay the (Molybdenum) wire in the notch and finally burr the sides of the notch over the wire (known as peening) to lock it in place.
 Knowing that the pitch of the grid wires was one element in the control of the electron stream grids with variable pitch were produced. These had close wound turns at the end and more widely spaced wires at the centre. This variable pitch grid is at the heart of the variable mu valves, where the sensitivity of the valve, and hence its amplification, can be altered by changing the amount of negative bias on the control grid."


----------



## sceleratus

You can find the "exact" switch here...http://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Switches/_/N-5g2h/
  about 50,000 to choose from.
   
  Narrowed down:   http://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/_/N-5g2j?P=1z0z2y5Z1z0z24z


----------



## sceleratus

took my calipers out.  The barrel is 0.2260" or 5.75mm
  there is no lock nut to the back panel.  that means it is floating in the hole and board mounted with 90 deg pins.  SPST
  you'd have to be ok with a board level re-work.


----------



## Flisker

ilikepooters said:


> Your Lyr already has sockets, so it's not something you'll need to buy unless you break your sockets.




Oh, right. Anyway I ordered savers you linked hope they are fine


----------



## Flisker

sceleratus said:


> took my calipers out.  The barrel is 0.2260" or 5.75mm
> there is no lock nut to the back panel.  that means it is floating in the hole and board mounted with 90 deg pins.  SPST
> you'd have to be ok with a board level re-work.




Thanks for links and information. 

What do you mean with board level re-work , isn't is as simple as unsoldering one switch for another ?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Thanks for links and information.
> 
> What do you mean with board level re-work , isn't is as simple as unsoldering one switch for another ?


 
  Not exactly.
  That board is made using "SMD" surface mount devices or components.  Rather than older thru-hole components.
  The density of the components is much greater with SMD.  The switch is probably thru-hole but could be SMD.
  That would not be fun.
   
  But it can be done either way.
  BTW:  You will need a chisel-tip (narrow) for your soldering iron. Do not use a pointed one. Also get fine diameter multi-core solder with internal flux.
  Adding a flow of thread like solder, rather than big goopy blobs.
   
  These are Excellent soldering tutorials and they take you from the tool to thru-hole to SMD.
http://www.eevblog.com/2011/06/19/eevblog-180-soldering-tutorial-part-1-tools/
   
http://www.eevblog.com/2011/07/02/eevblog-183-soldering-tutorial-part-2/
   
http://www.eevblog.com/2011/07/18/eevblog-186-soldering-tutorial-part-3-surface-mount/


----------



## DenonBeaver

Need some help guys,
 [size=small][size=12pt]I 've [size=small]been listeni[size=small]ng to my LCD[size=small]-2's thru [size=small]my[/size] L[size=small]yr and Bifrost combo[size=small] and now i'm[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size] looking for something with a more analytical sound not syrupy. Geared towards the higher end to bring out the [size=small]LCD[size=small]-2[size=small]. [size=small]I feel [size=small]like the darker sound of the LCD-2's is even [size=small]more magnified through the Lyr. [/size][/size]From what [size=small]I've read the tubes below are more geared towards that brighter sound signatur[size=small]e.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
   
  [size=small][size=12pt]I'm looking at the Tesla E88CC
  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Tesla-E88CC-%7B47%7D-6922.html

 or the Tungsram 6922 red label
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Tungsram-PCC88-%7B47%7D-7DJ8.html[/size][/size]
   
  [size=small][size=12pt]Or something else [size=small]if you feel [size=small]you've got a better suggestion[size=small].[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]


----------



## Mark-sf

Quote: 





denonbeaver said:


> Need some help guys,
> [size=small][size=12pt]I 've [size=small]been listeni[size=small]ng to my LCD[size=small]-2's thru [size=small]my[/size] L[size=small]yr and Bifrost combo[size=small] and now i'm[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size] looking for something with a more analytical sound not syrupy. Geared towards the higher end to bring out the [size=small]LCD[size=small]-2[size=small]. [size=small]I feel [size=small]like the darker sound of the LCD-2's is even [size=small]more magnified through the Lyr. [/size][/size]From what [size=small]I've read the tubes below are more geared towards that brighter sound signatur[size=small]e.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
> 
> [size=small][size=12pt]I'm looking at the Tesla E88CC
> ...


 
   
   
  I am currently burning in a pair of Amperex Oracle Label ECC88's such as these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Orange-Label-6DJ8-ECC88-Tube-Pair-Same-Date-Codes-/281085595042?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item417201cda2
   
  So far the fit the sound signature you are looking for providing an abundance of detail with excellent separation and tight bass. I hope they develop a bit more soundstage depth and they'll be winners.


----------



## sceleratus

decided to look "inside" to answer Flisker's switch question.
   
  it is an Oleda brand, model MTS-102C4
   
http://www.chinaleda.com/en/product.php?action=type&id=7
   
  i can't post photos until i am grown up and have 10 posts.


----------



## sceleratus

so why not take a pic or two?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





mark-sf said:


> I am currently burning in a pair of Amperex Oracle Label ECC88's such as these:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Orange-Label-6DJ8-ECC88-Tube-Pair-Same-Date-Codes-/281085595042?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item417201cda2
> 
> So far the fit the sound signature you are looking for providing an abundance of detail with excellent separation and tight bass. I hope they develop a bit more soundstage depth and they'll be winners.


 
   
  150+hrs on mine and they did not do. I found exactly the same. They are narrow in the soundstage. Warm, tight and they gots punch and kick. Fun tube but it leaves you wanting.


----------



## NightFlight

RE: Siemens PCC189
  Quote: 


gerald410 said:


> I bought a pair wish me luck


 
   
  Good tube. I got my pair a couple days ago. Came home a bit dragged out and slapped on some tunes to rest a few minutes. Well.
  Higher Intelligence agency took me on a bit of an intergalactic trip.  Another track nearly moved me to tears.  Ah well, I was vulnerable. 
   
  Once I put on my analytical ears I found the sound stage is very wide. The noise floor is up a bit and a hair more volume is required. The tube drawback is impact.  Detail is present but impact is soft.  Its the inverse of the Amperex OGs. This tube will do very well in some genres, but if your like me and expect your tube to do everything - move on. Still worth the money at around $35 shipped, and good to have in the collection.


----------



## gerald410

nightflight said:


> RE: Siemens PCC189
> 
> Good tube. I got my pair a couple days ago. Came home a bit dragged out and slapped on some tunes to rest a few minutes. Well.
> Higher Intelligence agency took me on a bit of an intergalactic trip.  Another track nearly moved me to tears.  Ah well, I was vulnerable.
> ...





Thanks for the report, will chime in when mine come in.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> so why not take a pic or two?


 
   
   
  Quite interesting ... ! Nice photos too.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   
   
  (can we assume you're running it like that? I have to admit to never looking closely at the cabinet construction. Is it "structurally sound" without the side panels and what-not?)


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Quite interesting ... ! Nice photos too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If you take a look at the 6moons review of the Lyr, the reviewer ran it without the cover and it was fine.  I wouldn't do that in a home with young children, there is some lethal stuff there for little fingers to explore.  Then again, anybody who uses exposed tube gear around children needs to think a little harder about the decisions they are making.


----------



## sceleratus

nah
  never opened it up before today. Flisker needed to replace his pwr toggle so i opened mine up to id it.
  then... we'll take some pics.... then, why not turn it on?
  never thought about it until you asked.  it is very strong with the rear/side cover removed.  it's two "d" bodies that slide together.  you could run forever like that structurally.  as long as you don't mind high AC voltage. as in north of 100V AC.
   
  if anyone is dumb enough to want to try this, remove 13 of the countersunk phillips screws. all 6 on the top and 7 from the perimeter corners on the bottom. do not remove any of the inner screws on the bottom.  last remove the 4 black screws on the back panel.  2 x power 2 x in/out receptacle.
   
  mine is all buttoned back up.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





toschek said:


> If you take a look at the 6moons review of the Lyr, the reviewer ran it without the cover and it was fine.  I wouldn't do that in a home with young children, there is some lethal stuff there for little fingers to explore.  Then again, anybody who uses exposed tube gear around children needs to think a little harder about the decisions they are making.


 
  it doubles as a rat zapper.


----------



## BeAsTMode4MVP

I just bought the only Orange Globes I could find on Ebay. They aren't the "A" getters, but I am assuming these will be better than the stock GEs.  
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Orange-Globe-6DJ8-Tube-Pair-1967-Same-Date-Codes-/271181167112?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f23a83a08&nma=true&si=SqVvFVpDlLITXEtgN2UWRz74HCY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> RE: Siemens PCC189
> 
> Good tube. I got my pair a couple days ago. Came home a bit dragged out and slapped on some tunes to rest a few minutes. Well.
> Higher Intelligence agency took me on a bit of an intergalactic trip.  Another track nearly moved me to tears.  Ah well, I was vulnerable.
> ...


 
   
  For a similar signature with more warmth i find the Phillips PCC189's fit the bill, i posted about them a few pages back, but essentially it's like the Siemens but with more bass impact, maybe slightly narrower soundstage but still quite wide, and the treble is nice and smooth but still detailed.
   
  The ones i have were made by Mullard, Blackburn and seem impossible to get on Ebay at the moment, but these Holland made Phillips PCC189's appear to be identical construction from what i can tell and at only $6.95 per tube should be an absolute steel.
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHILIPS-PCC189-7ES8-NOS-NIB-VINTAGE-VACUUM-TUBE-HEERLEN-HOLLAND-/261186327538?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3ccfeb13f2
   
  Only 4 tubes / 2 pairs left though.
   
  *EDIT* i think i'm gonna go find some cheap Telefunkens and Amperex's on payday, obscure ones again like PCC189 or ECC85's


----------



## ilikepooters

Anyone tried any Raytheon tubes in the Lyr? I've ordered a pair of American made 6922's to try, anyone know what their signature is like?


----------



## Joong

Tubes with gold pins have significant SQ delta in general?
  They have far higher price tag.
   
  I think electrically that when the contact being made properly through sockets, the contacting resistance is no more concern.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





joong said:


> Tubes with gold pins have significant SQ delta in general?
> They have far higher price tag.
> 
> I think electrically that when the contact being made properly through sockets, the contacting resistance is no more concern.


 
gold conducts electricity far better than tin but this is of lesser importance as to why an "SQ" valve (E188CC, CCa, 6922, ETC) performs better than a plain 6DJ8/ECC88.
 SQ valves from the 60's were made for military and test equipment applications.  Users with these applications demanded tighter tolerance for performance and longevity.  Both Philips and Telefunken rate their SQ series valves for 10,000 hours life.  I'm sure the others do as well.  Much of the valve performance lies in the electron flow from the cathode thru the control grid and to the plate.  The engineering of the grid is far more sensitive than the mechanical connection of a pin to a socket.  One of which is grid emissions.  With SQ valves you are paying for the tight tolerances of components directly part of the electron path.   Not that pins and sockets aren't in the path.
  
 EDIT:
  
 E188CC Specification
  
 EDIT2
  
 Compare the granularity of the spec in the E188CC doc to the ECC88 doc
 Both are Philips valves
  
 ECC88 Specification
  
 EDIT3
 The E188CC spec has a measurement for "Noise Factor" F = 4.6db  (f=200MHz)  and "Hum Voltage"  50 micro V RMS.
 The non-gold pin Philips ECC88 does not measure these characteristics.  Noise & Hum sound like important things when listening to music.


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> gold conducts electricity far better than tin but this is of lesser importance as to why an "SQ" valve (E188CC, CCa, 6922, ETC) performs better than a plain 6DJ8/ECC88.
> SQ valves from the 60's were made for military and test equipment applications.  Users with these applications demanded tighter tolerance for performance and longevity.  Both Philips and Telefunken rate their SQ series valves for 10,000 hours life.  I'm sure the others do as well.  Much of the valve performance lies in the electron flow from the cathode thru the control grid and to the plate.  The engineering of the grid is far more sensitive than the mechanical connection of a pin to a socket.  One of which is grid emissions.  With SQ valves you are paying for the tight tolerances of components directly part of the electron path.  * Not that pins and sockets aren't in the path.*
> 
> EDIT:
> ...


 
  Thanks for good explanation,
   
  For example Bugle boy 6922 has SQ grade and has gold pins?
  I agree that the pins and sockets are not important for the electronic path as long as the pressure and the area of contacting spot is ensured.


----------



## Hachiko

Now a proud owner of a Lyr! First thing I did was to put in my Amperex Orange Globes and started listening! Although, when I first plugged my LCD2s in I could hear a very loud static noise (like sizzling bacon I guess?) when putting on my LCD2's in the left cup. I thought it was the headphones so I rearranged the tubes around, then the static noise came back again on the right side! Is it possible the tubes are damaged in some kind or way or do I have to "burn it in"?
   
  Bummer cause they sounded really nice... And I just got them too


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





joong said:


> Thanks for good explanation,
> 
> For example Bugle boy 6922 has SQ grade and has gold pins?
> I agree that the pins and sockets are not important for the electronic path as long as the pressure and the area of contacting spot is ensured.


 
  you are correct.   but I have to say to a degree.
  there is a reason that the customers in the 1960 for SQ valves wanted gold flashed pins.  why? gold conduct electricity better.  when you are trying to listen in on Castro you want the highest performance possible.   whether gold pins were wire wheel hubcaps on a caddy, I don't know.  what you are paying for is the 454.
   
  I did not know that philips branded 6922's as bugle boy.  I have 5 different flavors of Philips 50's - 60's that have gold pins. They sound great.  I also have tin pin Lorenz PCC88's  Those sound amazing as well.   In the end it's what you like to hear and not what you read in the spec.  what the spec does is gives you a hint of what the performance might be.  a rule of thumb.
   
  I just enjoy learning about valves.....and sharing stuff I've uncovered.  at this point I know a thimble full.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hachiko said:


> Now a proud owner of a Lyr! First thing I did was to put in my Amperex Orange Globes and started listening! Although, when I first plugged my LCD2s in I could hear a very loud static noise (like sizzling bacon I guess?) when putting on my LCD2's in the left cup. I thought it was the headphones so I rearranged the tubes around, then the static noise came back again on the right side! Is it possible the tubes are damaged in some kind or way or do I have to "burn it in"?
> 
> Bummer cause they sounded really nice... And I just got them too


 
  generally... if you had noise in the left ear, flipped the valves and now have noise in the right ear, you've got a valve with a problem.
  I've heard bacon before and it has sizzled out.... once.  give it some time.  let them cook overnight.


----------



## nelamvr6

The real reason that gold is used in electrical connectors of any kind is that it is very resistant to corrosion.  Corrosion on connectors can be one of the biggest causes of intermittent problems and noise in electronic components.  Gold does conduct electricity much better than tin, but so does copper...


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> The real reason that gold is used in electrical connectors of any kind is that it is very resistant to corrosion.  Corrosion on connectors can be one of the biggest causes of intermittent problems and noise in electronic components.  Gold does conduct electricity much better than tin, but so does copper...


 
  You are so right.
  That is far more important.  missed that one.


----------



## NightFlight

ilikepooters said:


> For a similar signature with more warmth i find the Phillips PCC189's fit the bill, i posted about them a few pages back, but essentially it's like the Siemens but with more bass impact, maybe slightly narrower soundstage but still quite wide, and the treble is nice and smooth but still detailed.
> 
> The ones i have were made by Mullard, Blackburn and seem impossible to get on Ebay at the moment, but these Holland made Phillips PCC189's appear to be identical construction from what i can tell and at only $6.95 per tube should be an absolute steel.
> 
> ...





bah. I spent my money on an iPad and Nexus. dammit. I could have had a great set of valves. 


Also I forgot to mention the treble on the seimens is great. Smooth but still detailed. I have to guess the wideness of the soundstage is a trade-off to impact. Is there a tube that can do it all?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> bah. I spent my money on an iPad and Nexus. dammit. I could have had a great set of valves.
> 
> 
> Also I forgot to mention the treble on the seimens is great. Smooth but still detailed. I have to guess the wideness of the soundstage is a trade-off to impact. Is there a tube that can do it all?


 
  yah me too
   
  except i spent mine on 50yr old single malt and loose women


----------



## BeAsTMode4MVP

I am looking for natural vocals, tight base (I am not a fan of base bloom), a balanced sound.
   
  Tube suggestions: for the LCD-2 rev 2
   
  Budget: Up to $150 for a matched pair
   
   
  Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Thanks guys.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> yah me too
> 
> except i spent mine on 50yr old single malt and loose women


 
  Now THAT'S a good investment!


----------



## ilikepooters

I got my Siemens PCC189 backup tubes today and they seem to be of different construction.
   
  This was the first batch: Tri-mica, and halo getter is it? or O getter? i don't know much about getters.
   

   
  And this was 2nd batch: A-frame dimple getter?
   

   
  Upon first listen of the second set of tubes (A frame type ones) the sound seems a bit different, i think they're deffinately warmer, and soundstage is bigger, detail seems better and treble a bit more sparkly, mids seem to have some weight to them.
   
  They've not burned in yet, but i hope the sound doesn't change drastically with burn in, these are awesome tubes, if you've ordered these i think it's deffinitely the 2nd type you should be hoping to receive.
   
  Anyone know what plant/country i can find out these were made? also what year and other stuff?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I got my Siemens PCC189 backup tubes today and they seem to be of different construction.
> 
> This was the first batch: Tri-mica, and halo getter is it? or O getter? i don't know much about getters.
> 
> ...


 
   
  1st picture is "O" getter with silver shields so made in 1970s.
   
  2nd picture has code "378" so could be 1978. A frames were made in the 1970s era.
   
  do your tubes have the " =\=" etching?
  Real German made Siemens have that marking.


----------



## ilikepooters

I can't see any etching anywhere, but on the A frame ones they have something else faintly on the glass.
   
  IPA
  084
   
  or
   
  IPA
  08A
   
  can't quite make it out.
   
  Wherever they were made, the A frame ones sound fantastic.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I got my Siemens PCC189 backup tubes today and they seem to be of different construction.
> 
> This was the first batch: Tri-mica, and halo getter is it? or O getter? i don't know much about getters.
> 
> ...


 
  I wonder which one I will get?, the picture on ebay corresponds with the 1st one.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> I wonder which one I will get?, the picture on ebay corresponds with the 1st one.


 
   
  When i got the 2nd ones it was from the same seller who was using the picture of the first ones. Seller was rosmarie3878.
   
  I bought the 2nd set on 28th march, so if you bought them on that day or after they might be the A frame ones.
   
  Don't get me wrong, the first ones are amazing tubes, but the 2nd ones are even better.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> When i got the 2nd ones it was from the same seller who was using the picture of the first ones. Seller was rosmarie3878.
> 
> I bought the 2nd set on 28th march, so if you bought them on that day or after they might be the A frame ones.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the first ones are amazing tubes, but the 2nd ones are even better.


 
  Thats where I got them from after the 28th we shall soon see


----------



## Flisker

Can't wait to get them : - ) Ordered them too, on your recommendation.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Can't wait to get them : - ) Ordered them too, on your recommendation.


 
  I did as well!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I can't see any etching anywhere, but on the A frame ones they have something else faintly on the glass.
> 
> IPA
> 084
> ...


 
  IPA ?


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> When i got the 2nd ones it was from the same seller who was using the picture of the first ones. Seller was rosmarie3878.
> 
> I bought the 2nd set on 28th march, so if you bought them on that day or after they might be the A frame ones.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the first ones are amazing tubes, but the 2nd ones are even better.


 
   
  I ordered these as well .... in fact there was an attempted delivery yesterday and I'll be picking them up today on my way home from work.  Until you mentioned the seller's name I didn't think these were the same because I thought I was purchasing the tubes in the 1st picture.  We shall see


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I ordered these as well .... in fact there was an attempted delivery yesterday and I'll be picking them up today on my way home from work.  Until you mentioned the seller's name I didn't think these were the same because I thought I was purchasing the tubes in the 1st picture.  We shall see


 
   
  Both tubes came from that seller, just different construction.
   
  Hoping everyone gets the 2nd variety.
   
  Looking forward to everyones thoughts


----------



## Flisker

bobjs said:


> I ordered these as well .... in fact there was an attempted delivery yesterday and I'll be picking them up today on my way home from work.  Until you mentioned the seller's name I didn't think these were the same because I thought I was purchasing the tubes in the 1st picture.  We shall see




Already attempted delivery ?

Message I got from seller : 

"Thank you, we ship fully insured with Deutsche Post, NOT DHL.
Your stuff should appear within 2 BUSINESS DAYS in the tracking system of " Deutsche Post " .
The system depends on feedback from your post organisation, this can take some days up to several weeks, depending on the country."

Hope it won't take several weeks from Germany to Czech Republic  Otherwise performance of Deutsche Post would be pretty low.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Already attempted delivery ?
> 
> Message I got from seller :
> 
> ...


 
   
  Seems to take about a week from Germany to UK, so Czech Rep should be quicker.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> When i got the 2nd ones it was from the same seller who was using the picture of the first ones. Seller was rosmarie3878.
> 
> I bought the 2nd set on 28th march, so if you bought them on that day or after they might be the A frame ones.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the first ones are amazing tubes, but the 2nd ones are even better.


 
  Yep, I got the same ones as you did .... the A frames.  They sound great, nice non-sibilant, extended fluid highs, good bass, no microphonics.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Yep, I got the same ones as you did .... the A frames.  They sound great, nice non-sibilant, extended fluid highs, good bass, no microphonics.


 
   
  And the wide soundstage


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> And the wide soundstage


 
   
  Yes sir..... these sound wonderful through an old friend who hasn't been getting much head time recently due to newer toys...... they're perfect for the HD600


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> You are so right.
> That is far more important.  missed that one.


 
  Tin is very active material so that it reacts with socket material.
  In usual tin - tin mating pin and socket interface would form a compound layer so that it would have tendency to engage permanently.
  In our case of rolling repeatedly, tin pin could be reconsidered especially when the temperature around the socket can be higher than room temperature.
  Rolling tubes in this line of thinking may require gold pin connection and separation when it is necessary.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> When i got the 2nd ones it was from the same seller who was using the picture of the first ones. Seller was rosmarie3878.
> 
> I bought the 2nd set on 28th march, so if you bought them on that day or after they might be the A frame ones.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the first ones are amazing tubes, but the 2nd ones are even better.


 
  dang U !!!
  I visited rosemarie and got some Valo E88CC's
  i always wanted a set of Valos
   
  They are large O getters... which I like.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

paradoxper said:


> The SEL's are pretty good comparatively to other affordable tubes. They're actually much better than most of the mid-tier tubes.
> 
> They don't really sound the same though.
> 
> ...





Very true. I have both the SEL's and the Stuttgarts. The SEL's are nice, but not in the same league. Of the 20 +/- types of tubes in my collection, the Stuttgarts are clearly #1. The SEL's rank around #15 or 16.


----------



## Lord Soth

r scott ireland said:


> Very true. I have both the SEL's and the Stuttgarts. The SEL's are nice, but not in the same league. Of the 20 +/- types of tubes in my collection, the Stuttgarts are clearly #1. The SEL's rank around #15 or 16.




R Scott Ireland, I'm a fellow "tube hunter" on Ebay.

So I know you shelled out between 200 to 300 big ones on Ebay for each of the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88s.

For that kind of $$$, I suggest trying the Amperex Pinched Waist 6922s.
They are in a different league compared with other tubes.

The next closest would be a pinched Waist PCC88 or an Amperex 6922.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> dang U !!!
> I visited rosemarie and got some Valo E88CC's
> i always wanted a set of Valos
> 
> They are large O getters... which I like.


 
   
  Have these too and they sound good with HD650.


----------



## Salvatore

Quote: 





denonbeaver said:


> Need some help guys,
> [size=small][size=12pt]I 've [size=small]been listeni[size=small]ng to my LCD[size=small]-2's thru [size=small]my[/size] L[size=small]yr and Bifrost combo[size=small] and now i'm[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size] looking for something with a more analytical sound not syrupy. Geared towards the higher end to bring out the [size=small]LCD[size=small]-2[size=small]. [size=small]I feel [size=small]like the darker sound of the LCD-2's is even [size=small]more magnified through the Lyr. [/size][/size]From what [size=small]I've read the tubes below are more geared towards that brighter sound signatur[size=small]e.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
> 
> [size=small][size=12pt]I'm looking at the Tesla E88CC
> ...


 
   
  If you don't mind getting recommendations from Aune T1 user, I recommend Amperex 7308 white label PQ and Telefunken 7DJ8. Those are definitely my most analytical and transparent tubes. I've also heard that those red label Tungsrams are considerable substitutes for Amperex 7308. I can't recommend Amperex 6DJ8 orange globes if you want to go for brighter sound. At least for me they feel warmer all across the spectrum as compared to the 7308. I also find the orange globe bass to be slightly boomy/bloated. Telefunkens are fantastic tubes for those who want neutral sound. With my 7DJ8 Teles the only complaint is that sometimes I feel the vocals could be slightly recessed (could also be just my mind playing tricks on me I guess). Another tube I really like is Siemens 7DJ8. It's slightly more forward sounding and hence more focused than the 7308 white label and Telefunken 7DJ8. But yeah, for analytical sound Teles are good.


----------



## Joong

With Lyr by rolling tube, what are expecting for?
  The analytic sound point of view, these all things are non-sense?
  Because there are lot expensive SS amp with SS dac to generate high fidelity electrical number like THD, IMD, or etc.
   
  I think we seek some personal taste which is largely agreeable to small set of people who are gather together in this thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  For one example, cost (Lyr + Siemens tube) >> Mjolnir is justified by some of us.


----------



## NightFlight

Well, these are one their way:
   
  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/230957913454?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
   
  I've heard good things about them here and there. Now here's to them helping me hear.
   
   
  Anyone want to buy my Siemens PCC189s? LOL $20 + shipping.


----------



## NightFlight

These too:
   
  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/400440055685?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  I'll report how well the E288CCs work. Not too impressed with the PCC189s


----------



## OldSkool

Since Valvos have recently been brought up...by coincidence, I rolled in a pair of 1959 Valvo D-getter PCC88's yesterday afternoon. I had bought these from a fellow Head-Fier a couple months back, but just now got around to rolling them in and I spent the rest of the day listening.
   
  Very, very nice tubes! Bass extension seems average, but tight. Smooth silky mids, extended airy highs. The best part is the "3D" soundstage which is almost as wide as the famed Stuttgart Lorenz on my rig.
   
  Oh, one more thing. The first song I chose was Flamenco Sketches, Kind of Blue, Miles Davis. Same year as these tubes, 1959.
   
  Does anyone else match the year of the first song to the tube, or am I the only certifiable lunatic here?


----------



## Joong

What does it mean?
  When I am shopping, I found this mark along other photos.


----------



## claud W

Time to change out these:


----------



## claud W

For these:


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





claud w said:


>


 
  Very nice, Claud. Enjoy!


----------



## Joong

Siemens EF806S is compatible with Lyr?


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





joong said:


> What does it mean?
> When I am shopping, I found this mark along other photos.


 

 Joong, this logo means these tubes are highly recommended for listening to music by Guns N' Roses. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  Just kidding, my friend. I honestly haven't noticed that mark before, sorry.


----------



## Joong




----------



## claud W

The Amperex 6922s developed light background noise after 45 minutes.You can see that they were not NOS.  Next up are NOS Amperex relabled Teonex 7308s.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





claud w said:


> The Amperex 6922s developed light background noise after 45 minutes.You can see that they were not NOS.  Next up are NOS Amperex relabled Teonex 7308s.


 
  Sorry to hear about the noise in the 6922s! Did the seller claim them to be NOS?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





joong said:


> With Lyr by rolling tube, what are expecting for?
> The analytic sound point of view, these all things are non-sense?
> Because there are lot expensive SS amp with SS dac to generate high fidelity electrical number like THD, IMD, or etc.
> 
> ...


 
   
 My Opinions.
 It's a much larger group than you think. 
Watch the documentary "Sound City" 
   
[size=small]Sound City trailer[/size]
   
It is about one of the greatest recording studios in the history of R&R.  The centerpiece...  the Neve 8078 mixing board, handmade in the UK by Rupert Neve.  Made up of?  Guess?  Hundreds of valves.  The [size=small]greatest acts of R&R flocked to Sound City studio because of how that board sounded.[/size]
 The members of that group, Mc Cartney, Young, Petty, Cash, Fleetwood, Grohl, and many many more.  Their coliseum concerts may be SS.  But when they are in their drawing room I'll bet they're plugged into Marshall and Fender valve amps. If these guys use valves, I wonder what Jazz, Blues, and Classical artists listen to?
  
 Lyr+a buch of old valves >> BMW 5 Series.
  
 EDIT:
 What I should have said is, yes the group is small, but the members are very influential in the music community.
 Lastly, a  Warning !  After watching the above trailer you will feel empowered to go on eBay, find some Stuttgarts, and click "buy it now"
  
 EDIT2
 Make sure to watch for the snippet with John Folgerty sitting in front of a rack of old valve amps.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

joong said:


> Siemens EF806S is compatible with Lyr?




Ok I wasn't familiar with the ef806s, so I looked it up, apparently is a nicely built ef86. It is a pentode not a triode and has a different pin assignment. So in short no, don't use it


----------



## R Scott Ireland

lord soth said:


> R Scott Ireland, I'm a fellow "tube hunter" on Ebay.
> 
> So I know you shelled out between 200 to 300 big ones on Ebay for each of the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88s.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the heads-up! I'll keep an eye out for some.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

r scott ireland said:


> Thanks for the heads-up! I'll keep an eye out for some.




By the way, those pricier-than-platinum valves do not sound good at all in the Cavalli Liquid Glass amp, due to the heater under-voltage I believe. In the Lyr, they sound amazing. I suppose the Lyr circuit is somehow more adaptable in this regard?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Since Valvos have recently been brought up...by coincidence, I rolled in a pair of 1959 Valvo D-getter PCC88's yesterday afternoon. I had bought these from a fellow Head-Fier a couple months back, but just now got around to rolling them in and I spent the rest of the day listening.
> 
> Very, very nice tubes! Bass extension seems average, but tight. Smooth silky mids, extended airy highs. The best part is the "3D" soundstage which is almost as wide as the famed Stuttgart Lorenz on my rig.
> 
> ...


 

 do you have Lorenz Stuttgart?  just curiosity.


----------



## claud W

I do not remember. Its been 10 or 15 years ago and I had used them in another piece of equipment. I may have picked them up cheap at a "radio" show. I have some other pairs of that tube, but the 7308s are NOS because they are changing and getting sweeter as the afternoon goes on. Tomorrow I will figure out if one or both of the Amperex PQs are going bad. They sounded as good as the Siemens CCas before they got noisey.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> do you have Lorenz Stuttgart?  just curiosity.


 

 Yes. But the point of my post was to give my impressions of the Valvo D-getter PCC88, which to my ears has a somewhat similar 3D soundstage.
   
  Maybe it's a "made in Germany" thing? I haven't heard the Telefunkens, tho.
   
  YMMV.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Joong, this logo means these tubes are highly recommended for listening to music by Guns N' Roses.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  HI,
   
  It's a symbol for a valve.
  If it's a dual triode it's incomplete.
  Might be a logo.
   
  The bottom sticks are the heater pins 4 & 5
  The lower left stick is the cathode
  The top left stick is the grid "G"
  The top stick is the anode or plate.
  "R" is probably grid Resistance.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





joong said:


> What does it mean?
> When I am shopping, I found this mark along other photos.


 
  Those are Old Guy Radiola's tubes. Meaning, not his manufacturing just his eBay store name listing. And that's his trademark logo.


----------



## AlphaChicken

I just came into the possession of a pair of Telefunken E88CC Diamond bottoms made in 1968. Are these any good?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Those are Old Guy Radiola's tubes. Meaning, not his manufacturing just his eBay store name listing. And that's his trademark logo.


 
  Speaking of...  I just managed to pick these up from him on ebay today:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLLAND-D-GETTER-BUGLEBOY-PCC88-P88CC-7DJ8-6DJ8-SUBS-HOLLAND-NOS-TUBES-RARE-/271180628637?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
   
  I picked them up since one of my favorite Amperex Orange Globe 7308s just bit the big one.  One day it was playing fine and the next day I found the base cracked and lost vacuum.  It sucked but such is the way with tubes no matter how careful you try to be.  I'll let you know how the BugleBoys sound when I get them.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Flisker

Little off topic, anyone of you guys heard Beyerdynamic T1 from Lyr ? Is it good combo ?


----------



## JudgeDreadLocks

Is there a general opinion for the best all around tube for the lyr+he500 combo? I'm looking for deep bass, lush mids, detailed highs, and a wide soundstage. The soundstage doesn't have to be too wide, I'd sacrifice that for the rest of the properties.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Speaking of...  I just managed to pick these up from him on ebay today:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLLAND-D-GETTER-BUGLEBOY-PCC88-P88CC-7DJ8-6DJ8-SUBS-HOLLAND-NOS-TUBES-RARE-/271180628637?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
> 
> ...


 
  Real gems.  I've never seen anything like them.
  I am jealous..very jealous.


----------



## DenonBeaver

Just ordered some Tungsram 6922's. Any one have any reviews on these?


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Little off topic, anyone of you guys heard Beyerdynamic T1 from Lyr ? Is it good combo ?


 
   
  Excellent.  It sounds just a tad more impactful from my LD MK IV SE, but the lyr works nicely


----------



## NightFlight

Damn mouse! Look what it did...
   
  http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261195816159
   
  But I couldn't stand that this one guy "a*****3" had bought up 3 sets of NOS cca Telefunkens, then one set of S&H NOS cca, all in a row. I was really just trying to mess with the guy and maybe get a crack at a decent price. I get this feeling hes just going to resell his wins at astronomical prices.  Pushed it a hair too far I guess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I have now officially spent quite a bit more on tubes than the Lyr.
   
  DONE.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





alphachicken said:


> I just came into the possession of a pair of Telefunken E88CC Diamond bottoms made in 1968. Are these any good?


 
   
  http://vintageaudiotubes.com/?p=1279
   
  I haven't heard them, but they go for good monies on the ebay. I'm going to say their probably hard to beat. Then again it comes down to taste. Not everyone is a Tele fan. The big favorites appear to be Telefunken, Siemens, Amperex and Lorenz. If I had to poll the public as a whole, I would guess that the top tubes from those  players would come out in that order.  I could be completely off base. Depends entirely on your rig and tastes. YMMV, etc.


----------



## toschek

I have a pair of those Telefunken E88CCs. They were NIB, only taken out to cryo & test. I haven't really burned them in so I can't give you a true impression but they are probably the most liquid sounding of all the tubes I have, also the most expensive and sometimes I regret buying them.

I keep thinking I am going to sell them because in all honesty I don't want to use them in the fear I will break them or something.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Excellent.  It sounds just a tad more impactful from my LD MK IV SE, but the lyr works nicely


 
   
  Great, thanks for info


----------



## claud W

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I have a pair of those Telefunken E88CCs. They were NIB, only taken out to cryo & test. I haven't really burned them in so I can't give you a true impression but they are probably the most liquid sounding of all the tubes I have, also the most expensive and sometimes I regret buying them.
> 
> I keep thinking I am going to sell them because in all honesty I don't want to use them in the fear I will break them or something.


 
  So, what did you pay for them? I have 2 pair Telefunken 6922s and 2 pair CCa. They are my next tube roll. I buoght them 10-15 years ago. If you like tubes, just use them and keep them. They will not get any cheaper. If you put a 1000 hours on them, you have barely used them.


----------



## NightFlight

toschek said:


> I have a pair of those Telefunken E88CCs. They were NIB, only taken out to cryo & test. I haven't really burned them in so I can't give you a true impression but they are probably the most liquid sounding of all the tubes I have, also the most expensive and sometimes I regret buying them.
> 
> I keep thinking I am going to sell them because in all honesty I don't want to use them in the fear I will break them or something.




I know. Their like lightbulbs. Eventually they just go... POP!


----------



## Flisker

So Siemens PCC189 arrived hour ago  took only 3 days to arrive.
   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
  Oh and of course they are IN!
   

   
   

   
  Warming them up right now, will let u guys know on my impressions after few hours


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





flisker said:


> So Siemens PCC189 arrived hour ago  took only 3 days to arrive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Mine are still in transit enjoy!


----------



## gerald410

Are you these any good?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Reflector-NOS-Military-6N23P-EV-E88CC-6922-6dj8-ECC88-Tubes-/170997877193?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27d04489c9


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Are you these any good?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Reflector-NOS-Military-6N23P-EV-E88CC-6922-6dj8-ECC88-Tubes-/170997877193?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27d04489c9


 
   
  These look like they should be pretty good for death metal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If I would have money to spare I would buy them just because of looks.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





flisker said:


> These look like they should be pretty good for death metal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm more of a jazz man but thx for the appraisal


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





flisker said:


> So Siemens PCC189 arrived hour ago  took only 3 days to arrive.
> 
> Warming them up right now, will let u guys know on my impressions after few hours


 
   
  It's a shame you didn't get the A-frame dimple getter version, so bass will be a bit less but still great sounding tubes.
   
  Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Are you these any good?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Reflector-NOS-Military-6N23P-EV-E88CC-6922-6dj8-ECC88-Tubes-/170997877193?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27d04489c9


 
   
  I asked about these a few pages back, and someone said they are pretty much junk for that sort of money, only worth about a third of the price i think. You can get better tubes for the same money.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> It's a shame you didn't get the A-frame dimple getter version, so bass will be a bit less but still great sounding tubes.
> 
> 
> I asked about these a few pages back, and someone said they are pretty much junk for that sort of money, only worth about a third of the price i think. You can get better tubes for the same money.


 
  I really hope that isn't the case lol, you have any recommendations?


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> It's a shame you didn't get the A-frame dimple getter version, so bass will be a bit less but still great sounding tubes.
> 
> 
> I asked about these a few pages back, and someone said they are pretty much junk for that sort of money, only worth about a third of the price i think. You can get better tubes for the same money.


 
  Now I'm thinking about returning them


----------



## Flisker

So as for Siemens PCC189,
   
  I'am sorry to say this but ... there is something wrong with mids to me on these tubes. I just don't get the same feeling as with Lorenz PCC88, they are somehow recessed or buried under mid-bass to me. Treble is actually nice and bass is also fine to me, but can't handle these mids on HD650.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





flisker said:


> So as for Siemens PCC189,
> 
> I'am sorry to say this but ... there is something wrong with mids to me on these tubes. I just don't get the same feeling as with Lorenz PCC88, they are somehow recessed or buried under mid-bass to me. Treble is actually nice and bass is also fine to me, but can't handle these mids on HD650.


 
   
   
  How much have you burned them in?  Give them at least 20 hours, at least.


----------



## Flisker

Eh ... warmed up for around 30 minutes and than gave it a listen for 2-3 hours. Does it change significantly ? Feel like noob now


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Eh ... warmed up for around 30 minutes and than gave it a listen for 2-3 hours. Does it change significantly ? Feel like noob now


 
   
   
  Absolutely!  Give them 20 hours, then listen again.
   
  I'm not saying that these tubes will definitely turn into gems, but they will most likely change, and may change quite a bit.  
   
  Some say that you need to give a tube 100 hours to really finish burning in.  And that may be true, but I believe that you at least need to give them 20 hours before deciding if they're going in the right direction for you.
   
  Some people think burn in is a myth, but with respect to tubes, it's definitely real!


----------



## Flisker

Ok, thanks. I'll put them back tomorrow


----------



## Flisker

I was thinking... anybody has list of Lyr compatible tube types ?
   
  Found some on "local ebay" :
   
http://aukro.cz/5x-elektronka-6n1p-ecc88-nepouzita-nos-i3145101014.html
http://aukro.cz/tesla-ech81-2-kusy-i3151448166.html
http://aukro.cz/elektronky-pcf82-2ks-i3152711872.html
http://aukro.cz/5x-elektronka-6n3p-6cc42-nepouzita-nos-100-i3161151963.html
http://aukro.cz/5x-elektronka-6s4p-e-trioda-nepouzita-nos-i3161149516.html
http://aukro.cz/4x-elektronka-6p1p-ev-6v6-nepouzita-nos-100-i3161162182.html
http://aukro.cz/10x-elektronka-6cc41-tesla-6n2p-ecc83-nos-100-i3161198876.html
   




   
  Anybody knows which ones are usable in Lyr ? If any of these are I could try them


----------



## Joong

6n1p, ecc88, the numbers in the first line indicates compatible each other and Lyr.
  The rest of them I don't know, possibly not compatible with Lyr.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Are you these any good?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Reflector-NOS-Military-6N23P-EV-E88CC-6922-6dj8-ECC88-Tubes-/170997877193?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27d04489c9


 
   
  That is a really awful price, wow the nerve on some people (vendor, not you).  For $50 you can get a pair of Amperex A frame dimple getters.  Don't mess around with that garbage unless you are desperate.


----------



## Joong

I bought a pair of NOS Telefunken E88CC 6922 Siemens 60s* without <> mark*.
  The seller said that "*No <> on bottom, because tubes are Siemens tubes from the 60s*"
Anyone can comment about this ?


----------



## toschek

It's possible I guess, I would look for the diamond if I were spending Telefunken money though.  It sounds like you already pulled the trigger though?


----------



## Joong

I did...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  But the seller rating is high and German 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  I need to test when they arrive.
   
  If they sound noticeably different than GE stock ones, otherwise they will be returned.
  I bought them 160 USD.


----------



## toschek

$160 isn't too hard to swallow. The German mfgs did occasionally buy tubes from each other and badge as their own (Siemens/Telefunken/Valvo) so you might have gotten one of those. If you did then all's well.

I'm just leery about this because there is a lot of fakery with these high value tubes.

Edit: do they have gold pins at least?


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





toschek said:


> $160 isn't too hard to swallow. The German mfgs did occasionally buy tubes from each other and badge as their own (Siemens/Telefunken/Valvo) so you might have gotten one of those. If you did then all's well.
> 
> I'm just leery about this because there is a lot of fakery with these high value tubes.
> 
> Edit: do they have gold pins at least?


 
   




  Gold pins?


----------



## Joong

Keeping audiophile's life is tough.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





toschek said:


> That is a really awful price, wow the nerve on some people (vendor, not you).  For $50 you can get a pair of Amperex A frame dimple getters.  Don't mess around with that garbage unless you are desperate.


 
  That does it i'm returning them thx for the advice.  would you have a link for these?  Amperex A frame dimple getters. thx
   
   
  like these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-matched-1972-75-Amperex-A-Frame-6DJ8-ECC88-tubes-/270791231266?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f0c6a4722


----------



## toschek

gerald410 said:


> That does it i'm returning them thx for the advice.  would you have a link for these?  Amperex A frame dimple getters. thx
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Bang on, exactly. For the money there aren't many better values out there.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Bang on, exactly. For the money there aren't many better values out there.


 
  Ordered will be return the others thx again.


----------



## 333jeffery

If the Telefunkens don't have diamonds on the bottom, then they were made by Siemens.


----------



## velvetx

So many tubes. I am kind of curious as to those of you who tons of tubes. 

How do you go about listening to each set?
Do you listen to your best set and just let the others sit?
What is your usual method for breaking in tubes?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flisker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> So as for Siemens PCC189,
> 
> I'am sorry to say this but ... there is something wrong with mids to me on these tubes. I just don't get the same feeling as with Lorenz PCC88, they are somehow recessed or buried under mid-bass to me. Treble is actually nice and bass is also fine to me, but can't handle these mids on HD650.


 
IMO...
   
   
 The PCC189 is not a good valve for the Lyr.
  
 Sure the Lyr can tolerate a valve with a 7.2 heater voltage.  Just a tad north of a PCC88 with 7V.
  
 The big difference between this valve and all the usual Lyr valves if a parameter called µ. (mu)
  
 It's a ratio between Mutual Conductance and Anode Resistance.  Electron flow stuff.  The important think to know is that µ is called the "Amplification Factor" or 
  
 a factor that measures the ability of the valve to act as an amplifier.
  
  
 6922, 6DJ8, E188CC, PCC88, CCa, etc, etc.  All have a µ = 33
  
 The PCC189?  µ= 65 !  Everything else I looked up had a µ = 33  Except clear tops…. µ = 39
  
 I'm just using common sense and saying that this valve is a lot different in fundamental cathode / plate characteristics.  That's a lot more significant than heater voltage.


----------



## toschek

I had some luck with Telefunken pcc189s, tubes in this series may be hit or miss but they do work and Jason didn't think there would be any problems or damage to the amp from them. Those Telefunken pcc189 tubes were one of the best sounding tubes in the Lyr I'd ever heard, better than anything else I had including JAN-CEP 6922s. You'd be surprised sceleratus, they are comparatively cheap too.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> IMO...
> 
> 
> The PCC189 is not a good valve for the Lyr.
> ...


 
   
 PCC189 are a variable mu tube, 65 being the upper value i'd guess.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> PCC189 are a variable mu tube, 65 being the upper value i'd guess.
 
  Preface.  I have not listened to a PCC189 before.  My post was made because Flisker wasn't getting good results from his newly acquired PCC189 valves and I had never heard of a PCC189 before.  I investigated them and the mu value jumped out at me.  All the other twin triodes that are usually used have a mu of 33, including a PCC88.  Clear tops have a mu of 39 and I can't say I'm fond of them.
   
  Mutual Conductance value  and Anode resistance have a range "x to y".  Mu is the product of the two.  That still won't get PCC189's close to 33.  I am not suggesting that a PCC189 will damage a Lyr.  I am SPECULATING that because of that they might not sound as good as other triodes.  ... I like reading this stuff.
   
  Again I'm extrapolating my experience with clear tops to Flisker's antidote of the PCC1889.  I don't recall reading anything about them before.  But I think I would remember if they were a rock-your-world, 3-mica, stein-tilting tubes.  So, personally I will not be shopping for them.   Too many other choices right in the wheelhouse.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I had some luck with Telefunken pcc189s, tubes in this series may be hit or miss but they do work and Jason didn't think there would be any problems or damage to the amp from them. Those Telefunken pcc189 tubes were one of the best sounding tubes in the Lyr I'd ever heard, better than anything else I had including JAN-CEP 6922s. You'd be surprised sceleratus, they are comparatively cheap too.


 
  Now there's the rub...
  They are a value and all the great glass is going for stupid money.
  So, why not try em'.
   
  Cheap is a good specification.  I can never find that one on the sheet.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Preface.  I have not listened to a PCC189 before.  My post was made because Flisker wasn't getting good results from his newly acquired PCC189 valves and I had never heard of a PCC189 before.  I investigated them and the mu value jumped out at me.  All the other twin triodes that are usually used have a mu of 33, including a PCC88.  Clear tops have a mu of 39 and I can't say I'm fond of them.
> 
> Mutual Conductance value  and Anode resistance have a range "x to y".  Mu is the product of the two.  That still won't get PCC189's close to 33.  I am not suggesting that a PCC189 will damage a Lyr.  I am SPECULATING that because of that they might not sound as good as other triodes.  ... I like reading this stuff.
> 
> Again I'm extrapolating my experience with clear tops to Flisker's antidote of the PCC1889.  I don't recall reading anything about them before.  But I think I would remember if they were a rock-your-world, 3-mica, stein-tilting tubes.  So, personally I will not be shopping for them.   Too many other choices right in the wheelhouse.


 
   
  I've found them to be better than all the other tubes i have, but i guess it depends on what headphones the individual uses.
   
  For the price compared to other tubes, i'd say these are a bargain, only thing you could get for same price would be some cheap russian tubes.


----------



## Flisker

As for my previous post, maybe it was rush statement. Will get them 30 hours and see than if any burn-in occurs.
   
  My Lorenz PCC88 started doing even worse noises yesterday so, while PCC189 will be in I will try at least clean pins if it helps, because they sound fantastic with HD650 and only ones I could find on ebay are 150$


----------



## Timodeus

flisker said:


> These look like they should be pretty good for death metal
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Shiit I just did. I only have my Lyr for a few days and this already the fifth pair of tubes I bought.


----------



## Timodeus

ilikepooters said:


> It's a shame you didn't get the A-frame dimple getter version, so bass will be a bit less but still great sounding tubes.
> 
> 
> I asked about these a few pages back, and someone said they are pretty much junk for that sort of money, only worth about a third of the price i think. You can get better tubes for the same money.





http://vintageaudiotubes.com/?p=1273. 

Bassheadtube?l


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





timodeus said:


> Shiit I just did. I only have my Lyr for a few days and this already the fifth pair of tubes I bought.


 
   
  Yea I also have need to buy more tubes


----------



## ilikepooters

The Phillips PCC189's have opened up lovely after a few more hours of burn-in.
   
  They have very nice warmth and detail, and the mids aren't too shabby either, soundstage has gotten wider with burn-in.
   
  Can't decide now if it's these or Siemens which are my favourites, gotta say i prefer the Bass on these though.
   
  They are quite microphonic, but you can't have everything i guess, probably need to invest in some tube dampers.
   
  They are the british Mullard made phillips like this one on ebay...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCC189-7ES8-PHILIPS-NOS-BRITISH-Tube-Lampe-TSF-Rohre-Valvula-Valvola-/400452098751?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d3cce1abf
   
  Seems like that is the only British version on ebay, rest are Dutch.
   
  If you see some pairs go up for sale in future i'd recommend them if they are cheap enough.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Yea I also have need to buy more tubes


 
   
   
  It's a sickness!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So far I've only rolled three pairs of tubes.  I like my USN-CEP 6922s so much, it's really hard to convince myself to take them out...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> The Phillips PCC189's have opened up lovely after a few more hours of burn-in.
> 
> They have very nice warmth and detail, and the mids aren't too shabby either, soundstage has gotten wider with burn-in.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Get some of Herbie's dampeners.  I couldn't say they work better than any others, but they look cool!
   
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm


----------



## Flisker

USN-CEP 6922 ??? What the h... is this number. I really need to find some list of all possibly compatible tube types 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Also may I ask you guys to check out this video and tell me if noise my Lyr is doing is "normal" ? 
   




   
  If it's not normal than I guess it might be because I'am using US version in EU (of course with AC-AC transformer) but there is 50Hz instead of 60Hz in the wall.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





flisker said:


> USN-CEP 6922 ??? What the h... is this number. I really need to find some list of all possibly compatible tube types
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  You can search this thread, that will give you all the info you need!
   
  The tubes I'm talking about are Amperex USN-CEP 6922.  NOS tubes show up on eBay pretty regularly.  I paid $185 for the last matched pair of NOS tubes I picked up.
   
  My Lyr doesn't make that noise.  Do you hear it in your headphones?  It sounds like a transformer buzzing to me.  I did read that early versions of the Lyr had an issue with transformer buzz, but I also read that those problems had been resolved.  Perhaps the fix that they came up with doesn't work with the line frequency in Europe?  Or maybe your amp was one made before they put the fix into place?
   
  At any rate, I'd send the guys at Schiit an email, their customer service is top notch!


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You can search this thread, that will give you all the info you need!
> 
> The tubes I'm talking about are Amperex USN-CEP 6922.  NOS tubes show up on eBay pretty regularly.  I paid $185 for the last matched pair of NOS tubes I picked up.
> 
> ...


 
  That noise may be coming from a ground loop.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You can search this thread, that will give you all the info you need!
> 
> The tubes I'm talking about are Amperex USN-CEP 6922.  NOS tubes show up on eBay pretty regularly.  I paid $185 for the last matched pair of NOS tubes I picked up.
> 
> ...


 
   
  No it's not in headphones it's just the amp itself. Actually I doesn't bother me much, can't even hear it with headphones on.
   
  Will ask Jason about this than 
   
That noise may be coming from a ground loop. - Have no idea what this does mean tbh


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> That noise may be coming from a ground loop.


 
  I've certainly head ground loops that were audible through the equipment, that is, the sound comes out of the speakers or the headphone.  
   
  But I've never heard a ground loop that could cause the kind of vibration where you can hear the buzz just by putting your ear near the box...


----------



## asyork

Quote: 





flisker said:


> I was thinking... anybody has list of Lyr compatible tube types ?


 
   
  This is from the Schiit website:
   
  Quote: 





> Lyr ships with either new-production JJ ECC88 tubes or NOS GE 6BZ7 tubes, but feel free to substitute any 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 6BZ7, CV2492, CV2493, or 6N1P type tube, new or old, American or Russian or Chinese.


 
   
   
  Some other probably work as well.


----------



## Flisker

Oh thx that's a good start, PCC189 works as well.


----------



## ilikepooters

More tubes that work:
   
  6N23P
  7DJ8/PCC88
  6ES8/ECC189
  7ES8/PCC189
  6BQ7A
  ECC85/6AQ8 (Similar to 6N1P)
E80CC (Draws ALOT of heater current, use at own risk) Not pin compatible, needs an adaptor.
  CCa
  7308
  6CG7/6FQ7/6GU7
   
  Probably a lot more but i haven't looked into all of them yet.


----------



## nelamvr6

It seems we should post these every hundred posts or so, they';re good info for newbs:
   
  Joe's Tube Lore
   
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
   
  MrScary's favorite tubes for the Lyr:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/1245#post_7586585


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> It seems we should post these every hundred posts or so, they';re good info for newbs:
> 
> Joe's Tube Lore
> 
> ...


 
  Or those noobs could read through the thread. But of course, that's just.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> It seems we should post these every hundred posts or so, they';re good info for newbs:
> 
> Joe's Tube Lore
> 
> ...


 
  that's what I'm talking about.
   
  I did not have the Joe's tube Lore link.  Thanks


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Or those noobs could read through the thread. But of course, that's just.


 
   
   
  I feel ya!


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> If the Telefunkens don't have diamonds on the bottom, then they were made by Siemens.


 
  Thanks your comment.
  Is it considered as Siemens Cca?
  The pins are gold or Brass ? By photo it is not very clear.


----------



## Joong

My Lorentz SEL PCC88 on Lyr sounds equivalent to stock GE tube which has been just broken-in.
  I need to wait and review the Lorentz pair when they are fully broken in.


----------



## GrindingThud

I like these Brit Brimar 6BQ7A in my woo....not sure if anyone has tried them in the Lyr. They are Brit, and they are cheap. Mine have zero microphonics....can whack them with a sick and they are quiet. Plus they sound nice. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Pair-Brimar-6BQ7A-Box-Plate-Vacuum-Tubes-/160997414278?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item257c319586




ilikepooters said:


> More tubes that work:
> 
> 6N23P
> 7DJ8/PCC88
> ...


----------



## Joong

Lorentz SEL PCC88 generates a weak popcorn noise on one side, which is obviously hearable by HE-5LE at volume 12 o'clock.
  I never heard from the stock GE tubes.
  Sounding thinner than Bugle boy 6DJ8 and GE stock tubes.
   
  What is the nature of the popcorn sound?
  When I changed to Bugle boy 6DJ8, it is disappear.


----------



## AlphaChicken

I am wondering if there is a tube that livens up the treble, airiness, soundstage, and sparkle of the LCD-2s without mucking up the rest of the sound spectrum. Maybe this is a lot to ask, I'm not sure though.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nelamvr6 said:


> The tubes I'm talking about are Amperex USN-CEP 6922.  NOS tubes show up on eBay pretty regularly.  I paid $185 for the last matched pair of NOS tubes I picked up.




The Amperex USN-CEP 6922's are very very good in the Lyr - some of my favorite tubes.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





joong said:


> Lorentz SEL PCC88 generates a weak popcorn noise on one side, which is obviously hearable by HE-5LE at volume 12 o'clock.
> I never heard from the stock GE tubes.
> Sounding thinner than Bugle boy 6DJ8 and GE stock tubes.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  If you changed the tubes around, did the noise switch channels?


----------



## ilikepooters

I shamelessly re-sold my Lorenz PCC88's on ebay for a profit, but it was all in the name of further tube rolling.
   
  Not sure what to buy next.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I like these Brit Brimar 6BQ7A in my woo....not sure if anyone has tried them in the Lyr. They are Brit, and they are cheap. Mine have zero microphonics....can whack them with a sick and they are quiet. Plus they sound nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've ordered a pair of those, looking forward to see how they sound. What are your impressions on their sound signature? and do they sound nice and expansive?
   
  Other tubes i've got on order...
   
  Phillips ECC189, Made in Holland for the British military.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321099731310?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  And some Raytheon 6922's made in the US.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261187455018?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## sceleratus

I love these valves.
  La Radiotechniques E188CC
   
E188CC Buy it Now $120
   
  They have Mullard Mitcham "2" codes.  That could be 62 or 72. I could not see the getter.
  I bought them from Olga in Lithuania.  I have purchased from her before, as have a handful of other "Rollers"
  The product will take a month to arrive.  My PCC88's took 6 weeks, but I hung in there.
   
  If they are 62's they are a steal.  If they are 72's they are still a good value.
   
  The RTC's I have now are 65's Large "O" made in Heerlen Netherlands.
  Can't say enough good things about them.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I love these valves.
> La Radiotechniques E188CC
> 
> E188CC Buy it Now $120
> ...


 

 I know one user in here used to have that La Radiotechniques!
  anyways.....cool


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I know one user in here used to have that La Radiotechniques!
> anyways.....cool


 
  Gustav,
  That user must have known his ****.
  I asked the seller for a photo of the getter.
  1960's "O" made in Holland getters are getting $250-$300
   
  I did find a post from HK with data from Tubemonger that said a big batch of these RTC / Mullards hit the market in Europe and that they were newer.  I suspect these are those because they are white box.  But in the photo they look older / different than the other RTC/Mullards photos.  Darker hat different ink.   The other RTC Mullards look like they were made yesterday.  I'm hoping.
   
  Either way, I'm talking about a gold pin, 6922 CCa grade valve for $130 including shipping.  At least $50 under market.  IMO... IMO...IMO


----------



## gerald410

My Tubes are out for delivery! 2 matched 1972-75 Amperex A-Frame 6DJ8 ECC88 tubes


----------



## GrindingThud

I found that they have lifelike mids and do wonderful on female vocals and acoustic guitar. They are not bright and forward, but rather seem a bit gentle in presentation of detail. Soundstage at first was very compressed in my WA3. The set I received was new and in what appeared to be unopened crisp boxes. They evolved quickly and soundstage opened substantially over the first couple 4 hour listening sessions. I put them far above JAN Sylvania 6BQ7A and better in soundstage than 6N1P. To me, they sound deeper than they are wide or tall. I happen to like deep, which is what also attracts me to the Amperex orange labels. The tubes are dead black silent in my amp.


ilikepooters said:


> I've ordered a pair of those, looking forward to see how they sound. What are your impressions on their sound signature? and do they sound nice and expansive?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I found that they have lifelike mids and do wonderful on female vocals and acoustic guitar. They are not bright and forward, but rather seem a bit gentle in presentation of detail. Soundstage at first was very compressed in my WA3. The set I received was new and in what appeared to be unopened crisp boxes. They evolved quickly and soundstage opened substantially over the first couple 4 hour listening sessions. I put them far above JAN Sylvania 6BQ7A and better in soundstage than 6N1P. To me, they sound deeper than they are wide or tall. I happen to like deep, which is what also attracts me to the Amperex orange labels. The tubes are dead black silent in my amp.


 
   
  I'm quite familiar with the 6N1P (Voshkod), would love that tube if it had better mids.
   
  The presentation you describe sounds like the 6N1P-VI tubes that Schiit supplies, which would be great tubes if they had better soundstage.


----------



## Radioking59

What's a good price for Amperex orange globes? What is the most desirable getter and year? I have no idea what I'm looking for.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> What's a good price for Amperex orange globes? What is the most desirable getter and year? I have no idea what I'm looking for.


 
  Join the club lol.


----------



## GrindingThud

Ah, my 6N1P are 6N1P-EV with the rocket logo. Anyone ever try the 6N5P?


ilikepooters said:


> I'm quite familiar with the 6N1P (Voshkod), would love that tube if it had better mids.
> 
> The presentation you describe sounds like the 6N1P-VI tubes that Schiit supplies, which would be great tubes if they had better soundstage.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Ah, my 6N1P are 6N1P-EV with the rocket logo. Anyone ever try the 6N5P?


 
   
  6N1P-EV is basically the long-life version of standard 6N1P, the main thing is you got the rocket logos on there, tubes made in the Voshkod Kaluga plant are highly regarded amongst the Soviet tubes.
   
  6N5P is pretty much the Soviet equivalent of 6CG7/6FQ7, Schiit said they will work in the Lyr but they don't consider them to be the best tube type. They are really cheap though so won't hurt to try a load and see for yourself.


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> If you changed the tubes around, did the noise switch channels?


 
  I did, and the noise has gone.
   
  Thank you for your advice.
   
  What was the cause of the noise?
  I used the socket saver from Tubemonger.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> My Tubes are out for delivery! 2 matched 1972-75 Amperex A-Frame 6DJ8 ECC88 tubes


 
  After about 15 mins warm up, I'm digging them. Now to burn-in. I'm picking up on some Airyness. Needs more volume then stock tubes


----------



## HK_sends

Got the Bugle Boy 1959 D-Getter PCC88 tubes today.  Took less than 10 minutes of listening to decide to go buy two sets of these:
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221209236824&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
   
  Yes!  The sound is that good!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





joong said:


> I did, and the noise has gone.
> 
> Thank you for your advice.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Huh.  I suppose that the tubes, or at least one of the tubes, may have needed to be re-seated into the socket, in which case your pins may need cleaning.
   
  I was really expecting to hear that when you changed the position of the tubes the noise moved from one channel to the other.  But the noise disappearing is an even better outcome!  Now here's hoping it doesn't come back!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Got the Bugle Boy 1959 D-Getter PCC88 tubes today.  Took less than 10 minutes of listening to decide to go buy two sets of these:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221209236824&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Nice!


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Got the Bugle Boy 1959 D-Getter PCC88 tubes today.  Took less than 10 minutes of listening to decide to go buy two sets of these:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221209236824&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
> 
> ...


 
  Must fight the feeling to purchase lol, Damn you lol. i'm in for a pair for 130. thx for the find!


----------



## Joong

Every gold pin is not always good.
  I found tin-pined tube is not inferior to gold pin tube with very good name.
  Lorenz SEL PCC88 is an example.
  When I put correctly the tubes, the thin sound has become fuller and  beautiful.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Must fight the feeling to purchase lol, Damn you lol. i'm in for a pair for 130. thx for the find!


 




  Three sets snapped up, one left...
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

What cans are you guys using with your Lyr?


----------



## kessomatt

Hey guys, just got the modi and the lyr. Up until now I always used my iphone as source.  Can anyone recommend what the volume levels should be at in windows, itunes and the preamp in itunes?  Any slight EQ I do in itunes will cause nasty distortion unlike my iphone.  Any other settings I should change in win8?  Thanks.
   
  Also, I can hear so much noise from the computer. Sounds like cpu noise and can even hear noises when I move my mouse.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> What cans are you guys using with your Lyr?


 
  I'm using Audeze LCD-2s.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Salvatore

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> What's a good price for Amperex orange globes? What is the most desirable getter and year? I have no idea what I'm looking for.


 
   
  Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Join the club lol.


 
   
  I just bought a quad for $40. I'd say you don't want to pay more than $15 for a single Amperex 6DJ8 orange globe (70's production). Of course you might need to spend more if you need those perfectly intact prints or older tubes. The prints on these babies are not the strongest and they seem to rub off quite easily. All my globes (I have 5 at the moment) are dimpled discs with A-frame support. Some of them are PQ. I think they should sound identical with the single leg supports, but are less susceptible to microphonics. When looking for these tubes be sure to check that the text is indeed orange and has that 'made in Holland' or 'Holland' text. There are some red label versions out there which are actually made in Great Britain (Mullard) and are reported to sound inferior. If the prints have worn off you can try to identify these tubes by examining the date/factory codes. Usually these tubes have two codes etched to the side of the tube from which the other code indicates the model/date and the other one production.
   
  The code could look something like this:
   
  GAE
  ◿2K4
   
  GA means that the tube is 6DJ8 tube and the last letter or number indicates which batch it is from (year/month). So if you definitely want to have matching pair from the same batch you should look for this symbol as well. The other line tells you information about the production. The first symbol tells you the plant/factory the tube was made in. So when looking for those Holland made Amperexes you should look for that lower right triangle symbol (not actually delta) because it means that the tube was manufactured in Philips, Heerlen, Holland factory. I really dont know what the rest of the letters mean but maybe somebody can enlighten us more.
   
  That GAE ◿2K4 code is actually from my Amperex 6DJ8 orange globe dimpled disc A-frame PQ tube. In my knowledge there are at least four types of these orange globes available: halo getter with single leg support, dimpled disc with single leg support, dimpled disc with A-frame support and dimpled disc with a-frame support + PQ. The dimpled disc A-frames are early 70's production, but that's about all I know. I think those single leg supported halo getters could be older and the real old 6DJ8 are probably Bugle Boys?
   
  Feel free to add or correct.


----------



## Radioking59

^^^ Thanks for the help. Is it worth paying a premium for tubes that test as NOS? Is the only advantage the amount of time left before they go bad? 

Does $80 for a matched pair of NOS 1968 OGs seem reasonable?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





salvatore said:


> GAE
> ◿2K4
> 
> GA means that the tube is 6DJ8 tube and the last letter or number indicates which batch it is from (year/month). So if you definitely want to have matching pair from the same batch you should look for this symbol as well. The other line tells you information about the production. The first symbol tells you the plant/factory the tube was made in. So when looking for those Holland made Amperexes you should look for that lower right triangle symbol (not actually delta) because it means that the tube was manufactured in Philips, Heerlen, Holland factory. I really dont know what the rest of the letters mean but maybe somebody can enlighten us more.


 
   
   
This document should help answer any questions about.... Philips Valve Codes
   
   
IMO
Not a big fan of dimple getters.
I am probably misguided, but "the older, the better".
Why?  Lots of reasons.  Many say that they stopped using rare-earth metals after the 60's
I don't experiment too much, I just buy the highest rated valves for the best price I can find.  When I roll up to a newer vintage they don't last long in the sockets.  I always end up sticking with my top 4 sets.  The others collect dust.   HK_ pointed out a great deal on some great valves.  Just do what he does and you will have very happy ears.
   
Mid 60's small O ECC88's, Heerlen matched should be about $70 a pr.
This is a great bang-for-the-buck.  Hold out and get some 65's
I paid that 6 months back.  Perhaps too much, but I enjoy them when they make it to the sockets.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> ^^^ Thanks for the help. Is it worth paying a premium for tubes that test as NOS? Is the only advantage the amount of time left before they go bad?
> 
> Does $80 for a matched pair of NOS 1968 OGs seem reasonable?


 
  Reminded me of something else.
  Because 6922 / CCa / E188CC valves were made primarily for government buyers, they need to be of a higher quality.
  The attached spec for Philips E188CC's states at the top 10,000 hours of life.
  I also attached a Telefunken spec.
   
VALVE SPECS
   
  So, if you are buying a NOS 6922 you are supposed to get 10,000 hours of life.
  It's also more than life.  The tolerance for microphonics and hum specifications had to be tighter as well.
  I said in an earlier post.  When you want to listen in on Fidel.... nothing but the best.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> What cans are you guys using with your Lyr?


 
   
   
  Mostly LCD-2.2, but also Beyerdynamics DT880 600 Ohm.


----------



## toschek

My feeling is, buy the best you can afford.  I spent a lot of dumb money on cheap stuff to play with tube rolling, but when I want to really listen I'm always reaching for the JAN-CEP 6922s/7308s or Brimar CV2492s.  If I were to do it over I'd have bought these three sets only and nothing else.  If I had to narrow those choices down I'd buy two sets of JAN-CEP 7308s and that would probably last the rest of my life.  
   
  Since I went to the new amp I don't roll tubes anymore, not sure if it's laziness or what, but with those three sets above I really don't see how it can get better, anything else I try sounds worse with this setup.  
   
  Offtopic - It's kind of odd to see the 6SN7 folks cry foul over tube prices when their holy grails are like 1/2 the price of Siemens CCa.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Huh.  I suppose that the tubes, or at least one of the tubes, may have needed to be re-seated into the socket, in which case your pins may need cleaning.
> 
> I was really expecting to hear that when you changed the position of the tubes the noise moved from one channel to the other.  But the noise disappearing is an even better outcome!  Now here's hoping it doesn't come back!


 
   
  I got myself sand paper and cleaned pins on Lorenz PCC88 because it was doing unbearable sounds. I'am gonna try them today to see if it helped or not.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





kessomatt said:


> Hey guys, just got the modi and the lyr. Up until now I always used my iphone as source.  Can anyone recommend what the volume levels should be at in windows, itunes and the preamp in itunes?  Any slight EQ I do in itunes will cause nasty distortion unlike my iphone.  Any other settings I should change in win8?  Thanks.
> 
> Also, I can hear so much noise from the computer. Sounds like cpu noise and can even hear noises when I move my mouse.


 
   
  Shouldn't be hearing noise like that if you're using your Modi as a DAC to feed the Lyr.
   
  That noise usually happens when you plug headphones straight into a really cheap PC sound card.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Salvatore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Amperex 6DJ8 orange globe (70's production) -- -- When looking for these tubes be sure to check that the text is indeed orange and has that 'made in Holland' or 'Holland' text. There are some red label versions out there which are actually made in Great Britain (Mullard) and are reported to sound inferior. If the prints have worn off you can try to identify these tubes by examining the date/factory codes. Usually these tubes have two codes etched to the side of the tube from which the other code indicates the model/date and the other one production.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You can't always trust what's printed on the tube. The "made in" is sometimes falsely given. That's one reason the codes are so nice to have. Luckily most tubes of the Philips group carry this code.
   
  In the above, 2K4 is the date code. 2 = last digit of year, 1972; K = month, Nov (A = Jan, etc.); 4 = week of month.
   
  Also, there is zero reason to pay more for an Amperex-branded tube if the same tube is available more economically under some other brand. A Dutch-made Amperex 6DJ8 *is* a Dutch-made Philips ECC88, and it is the same tube under any other brand. The Philips group themselves had a multitude of brands for different markets.


----------



## Salvatore

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> ^^^ Thanks for the help. Is it worth paying a premium for tubes that test as NOS? Is the only advantage the amount of time left before they go bad?
> 
> Does $80 for a matched pair of NOS 1968 OGs seem reasonable?


 
   
  Well this is always the buyers choice to make. I'm a T1 user so I only need single tubes (T1 uses some of the same tubes than Lyr and that's why I'm interested of this thread). Rarity doesn't always mean better sound but it does mean that you need to be ready to pay more money. I started my rolling to get better sound but now I've found myself collecting cool looking rare tubes just for the fun of it. The bargain hunting can be both rewarding and frustrating, but at least it teaches you something about the prices of the tubes. If you really don't know the value of the tubes you might just go and get Russian reflectors for $40+. I bought a pair of Voshkod rockets for $8 + shipping. Now I mainly buy used NOS tubes that measure good or strong and have reasonable price. I want to be able to get my money back (+ maybe even make some profit) if I decide to sell them. Most of the "fakes" out there (ebay) are tubes that claim to be NOS but are used instead. That's why I'm not too interested of paying premium for NOS (unless the seller is really reliable). I also don't have equipment to measure tubes so all I have is the sellers word for it.
   
  I think you should also read this: http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm


----------



## Salvatore

Quote: 





oskari said:


> You can't always trust what's printed on the tube. The "made in" is sometimes falsely given. That's one reason the codes are so nice to have. Luckily most tubes of the Philips group carry this code.
> 
> In the above, 2K4 is the date code. 2 = last digit of year, 1972; K = month, Nov (A = Jan, etc.); 4 = week of month.
> 
> Also, there is zero reason to pay more for an Amperex-branded tube if the same tube is available more economically under some other brand. A Dutch-made Amperex 6DJ8 *is* a Dutch-made Philips ECC88, and it is the same tube under any other brand. The Philips group themselves had a multitude of brands for different markets.


 
   
  Wow thanks for this! Now the codes actually make sense. It could be that my PQ shield logos are newer than the normal dimpled disc A-frames. At least I've been assuming that my standard A-frames are 1970 (I think they had 0 on them. Need to inspect more when I get home).


----------



## kessomatt

Yeah apparently the USB ports are of low quality(on a $2500 gaming laptop). I've read tips to try and use a powered USB hub to eliminate the noise. If that doesn't work ill just return the modi for a bifrost and use the optical out assuming that doesn't have noise in it too.



ilikepooters said:


> Shouldn't be hearing noise like that if you're using your Modi as a DAC to feed the Lyr.
> 
> That noise usually happens when you plug headphones straight into a really cheap PC sound card.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





kessomatt said:


> Yeah apparently the USB ports are of low quality(on a $2500 gaming laptop). I've read tips to try and use a powered USB hub to eliminate the noise. If that doesn't work ill just return the modi for a bifrost and use the optical out assuming that doesn't have noise in it too.


 
   Optical out will be completely noise free, it's light rather than electric, so no problems there.


----------



## sceleratus

My valve tester project has reached a milestone.
 The alpha version of the testing circuit and pcb layout is complete.
  [size=small]I still want to perform more complete circuit testing with Ltspice simulation software (not sure about this) and try to proto-board some of it. (I did do the heater circuit) Otherwise it will be a copycat of the BK schematic with modular connectors and upgraded components with out thoroughly understanding the circuit.[/size]
  
 It's based on the BK 606.  Very simple emissions and shorts testing, but I've added digital meters and taps for a scope. I hope to be able to do curve tracing against the factory valve spec. I'm not very experienced and I rate my chances for success as small, but I enjoy doing it.  Once the circuit is finial, I etch the board and drill it.  I'm looking forward to that.
  
 Why am I posting this?  One I wanted to (shamelessly) share.  Secondly,  is to express my appreciation for Schiit and the Lyr.  It has grown, I don't know, ten-fold.  There are so many trade offs in designing the Lyr, building it for a very reasonable price, and making a profit.   There's a lot of engineering in that thing.  The transformer selection is difficult because you have to deal with high plate voltage, small heater voltage and negative grid voltage.   Plus, the circuit is all AC voltage.  There aren't a lot of products that require this, hence the component choices are smaller. I've tested transformers from two mfg's (Hammond and Triad-Magnetics) and my design requires three total. It's going to be huge for just a simple circuit.  All the resisters and pots require a high wattage rating.  Many, many inter-dependencies.  I appreciated Schiit before,  now my respect for them has reached a new level.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





flisker said:


> USN-CEP 6922 ??? What the h... is this number. I really need to find some list of all possibly compatible tube types
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't see a 50hz rating here: http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=popup_image_additional&pID=3&pic=3&products_image_large_additional=images/lyr_05.jpg
  Email Schiit Support for confirmation. To me the circuit board looks like straight stepdown and not a switched power supply. That means cleaner source but no magic, ie you need an EU unit for in the EU, etc.


----------



## NightFlight

Well, it looks like these may have been lost in the mail.

   
  Join me in a silent prayer to the tube god(s) for their speedy and safe arrival.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> My valve tester project has reached a milestone.
> The alpha version of the testing circuit and pcb layout is complete.
> [size=small]I still want to perform more complete circuit testing with Ltspice simulation software (not sure about this) and try to proto-board some of it. (I did do the heater circuit) Otherwise it will be a copycat of the BK schematic with modular connectors and upgraded components with out thoroughly understanding the circuit.[/size]
> 
> ...


 

 Do you make tube tester too?


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I don't see a 50hz rating here: http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=popup_image_additional&pID=3&pic=3&products_image_large_additional=images/lyr_05.jpg
> Email Schiit Support for confirmation. To me the circuit board looks like straight stepdown and not a switched power supply. That means cleaner source but no magic, ie you need an EU unit for in the EU, etc.


 
   
  I'll email Jason probably tomorrow (I'am kind of busy this week), but Lyr works fine. Sound is great, it's just buzzing a little. Actually can hear it only when I turn it up while PC is off. If it's not gonna do any harm to the Lyr than I'am fine with it.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Well, it looks like these may have been lost in the mail.
> 
> 
> Join me in a silent prayer to the tube god(s) for their speedy and safe arrival.


 
   
  Researching shipments from Spain... apparently it takes forever. Hopefully the tracking numbers don't work either.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Researching shipments from Spain... apparently it takes forever. Hopefully the tracking numbers don't work either.


 
   
  How long has it been so far?


----------



## Joong

My Telefunkens arrived finally in good shape having* gold *pins?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  To my ear, they are almost the same as Lorenz SEL PCC88 through HE5-LE
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## ilikepooters

These Lorenz PCC88's on ebay..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-LORENZ-BWB-PCC88-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-for-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-MILITARY-ISSUED-/290848900203?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b7f2046b
   
  The reviews quoted on there say they are almost identical to Tele's.
   
  If that is the case i would sell the Telefunken's and roll in something different.
   
  You could get a nice pair of Mullard gold pins which would have a different sound and still have plenty of money left.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAIR-MULLARD-E88CC-VALVE-GOLD-PINS-DUAL-STAGE-HALO-GETTER-TESTED-/380618536181?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item589ea1f4f5


----------



## Joong

My teles might be Siemens 6922 because there is no <> marks and the cost was 160USD purchased from a German guy with very high reviews.
  Maybe they need burning in for full capability?
   
  Fellow head-fier suggested that they are Siemens.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> You could get a nice pair of Mullard gold pins which would have a different sound and still have plenty of money left.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAIR-MULLARD-E88CC-VALVE-GOLD-PINS-DUAL-STAGE-HALO-GETTER-TESTED-/380618536181?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item589ea1f4f5


 
  Those valves are a good value.  "SQ" High spec, 10,000 hour  for $100 USD
  However one production date is Jun 66.  The other is Oct. 66.  Used.
  It would be nice to know what "Tested Very Strong" means.  Quantifiably.
   
  I still like em'
  Also interesting...
  These NOS Mullard (RTC's) E188CC's  probably 72's Matched. They have a slightly better spec than the E88CC
   
  This buy it now is $120:  Listing #1
  This buy it now is $185  Listing #2
   
   
  But I much prefer the "O" getter to the dimple.
  I bought the $120 set and asked for a description of the getters..... I know they aren't going to be 62's "O"s  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  "HK_ " I looked at those 59' D, BB's from mercedesman a month ago and didn't pull the trigger.
  Looked at them hard.  I have a lot of Philips and wanted to try something different.  I also have 60' 6922 D's
  But, what a great price for those.  It's great to hear they sound sweet.
   
  I think one  "top shelf" set from Mr. Scary's list and I'm hanging it up.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Do you make tube tester too?


 
  yes.  It's going to be...... wait.... it might be able to test tubes.
  I have to figure out the high voltage trans stuff and at the moment I don't get it.
  It looks like an output trans with both secondaries and primaries (unbalanced) going into the test circuit.
   
Hello Jason........ throw me a bone...please...




   
  I threw in the Lyr picture for fun.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





joong said:


> My teles might be Siemens 6922 because there is no <> marks and the cost was 160USD purchased from a German guy with very high reviews.
> Maybe they need burning in for full capability?
> 
> Fellow head-fier suggested that they are Siemens.


 
  Joong,
   
  Give them time.  Those should sound sweet.
   
  I have the Philips 7L9 USN-CEP 65' small O, and the Lorenz PCC88's.
  In some respect the PCC88 sounds.... bigger.  The E88CC's.... more defined.  ( I have a hard time with this)
  Two fine valves with different strengths.
   
  Those are two that I would roll in and out finding music that plays to the strengths of each one.


----------



## gerald410

My universally scorned tubes have now arrived lol Matched Pair Reflector NOS Military 6N23P-EV/E88CC/6922/6... warming them up as we speak. I'm curious as to what I will get in terms of sound quality.


----------



## ilikepooters

I've been reading that the SEL Lorenz PCC88's were made with Phillips tooling, but they seem to be quite rare and can be expensive.
   
  I reckon the Phillips PCC88's and SEL Lorenz PCC88's are one and the same, Phillips tubes are very cheap.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260746635558?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
   
  Seem to be Yugoslavian made, as are the SEL Lorenz.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-PCC88-7DJ8-PHILIPS-NOS-Tube-MATCHED-Valvola-Valvula-Rohre-Lampe-TSF-/250982457028?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a6fb85ec4


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> My universally scorned tubes have now arrived lol Matched Pair Reflector NOS Military 6N23P-EV/E88CC/6922/6... warming them up as we speak. I'm curious as to what I will get in terms of sound quality.


 
   
  My guess would be lovely warm abundant bass, decent mids, layed back treble, and could possibly have good soundstage.
   
  That's what i've read about them anyway.


----------



## Joong

My measuring frame is Mahler symphony 8 known as symphony of 1000 that requires an extended orchestra and 1,000 choir.
  The amp should have higher enough resolution to sound properly.
   
  I am troubling to differentiate between Telefunken and Lorenz.
   
  Yes I should give Teles more time.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks for your advice, Sceleratus.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> My guess would be lovely warm abundant bass, decent mids, layed back treble, and could possibly have good soundstage.
> 
> That's what i've read about them anyway.


 
  At 1st listen they seem to have more bass then these 2 matched 1972-75 Amperex A-Frame 6DJ8 ECC88 tubes but arent quite as airy. Neither tubes are close to being broken in less the 5 hours on each. Good call ilikepooters!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I've been reading that the SEL Lorenz PCC88's were made with Phillips tooling, but they seem to be quite rare and can be expensive.
> 
> I reckon the Phillips PCC88's and SEL Lorenz PCC88's are one and the same, Phillips tubes are very cheap.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260746635558?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
> ...


 
  Got mine from Olga.  I paid $68 including shipping.
  Mine look different than eBay listing stating Yugo...
   
  I don't know German codes.  So I can only say these are mid 60's because they have "o" getters.
  I may be wrong that "O"'s weren't used in the 70's but that's my current belief.
  Anyway they sound grand and I think they are the real deal.  If not.  They still sound amazing.
  I looked for Lorenz in the Phillips Codes Book and didn't see them.  Lots of others though.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





joong said:


> My measuring frame is Mahler symphony 8 known as symphony of 1000 that requires an extended orchestra and 1,000 choir.
> The amp should have higher enough resolution to sound properly.
> 
> I am troubling to differentiate between Telefunken and Lorenz.
> ...


 
  I hope they work.  They weren't cheap.... but I don't think you over paid.
  Again,  I have to get a handle on the German codes before I buy any.
  There's good material 50+ pages back.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> yes.  It's going to be...... wait.... it might be able to test tubes.
> I have to figure out the high voltage trans stuff and at the moment I don't get it.
> It looks like an output trans with both secondaries and primaries (unbalanced) going into the test circuit.
> 
> ...


 

 Do you like amperex tubes?


----------



## velvetx

So many tubes. I am kind of curious as to those of you who tons of tubes.

How do you go about listening to each set?
Do you listen to your best set and just let the others sit?
What is your usual method for breaking in tubes?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Do you like amperex tubes?


 
  I know I'll be corrected on this... I am a bit confused.
   
  But Amperex = Philips, but they built valves for Mullard and visa versa.
  Amprex OG's were generally Holland.  The white label and 6922's New York.
   
  All a bit jumbled.  Just look at the Philips Valve Codes in my prior post.
  Now, I don't know if they compiled the list and everybody agreed on the Mfg code
  It appears so because Siemens and Halske, Valo, and Telefunken are on the list.
   
  Clearly, as an example, Philips made "French" RTC valves in Holland. 
   
  To your point:
  I like Amprex valves.  I paid more for the "6922 Class" valves and I believe they sound better.
  I think I paid $240 for the 1960's
   
  By far, by a mile, my "French" RTC's E188CC's sound... just magical.  Can't remember.  1965 I think.
  They have the Big "O" getter.  I can't say enough about them.  They were made in a Philips / Amperex plant in Heerlen Holland.
  I have not listened to the 3 mica stuff and above, but I can't imagine anything sounding better than these.
RTC Purchase
  You must find some.  I paid $140 but most of them are almost $300.
  I do not want to recommend the RTC / Mullards, until I hear them.
  They are not the same as the RTC's I own now.
   
  Amperex....  Early 60's  Orange Globes <$  Bugle Boys $ < 6922.
  I don't have any stamped "PQ" or "SQ"  I believe those sound amazing and I believe they conform to the E188CC spec.
   
  I know you have a pretty good collection.... For those starting out... IMO... pay $70 and get some mid 60's matched Orange Globes.
  Those are a great value.  mercedesman usually has them.  I have 69 dimple OG's, I gave away 67' O getters to a friend.  I had Bugle Boys and found them harsh.
  IMO.  It is worth paying more for "O" getter Orange Globes.  They are an excellent place to start.... or stay.  A nice elevator ride up from stock.


----------



## sceleratus

noobs... go back through the thread and see what the old guys buy and how they buy them.
  There is a wealth of experience in this thread.  Follow their lead and you'll be pleased.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> noobs... go back through the thread and see what the old guys buy and how they buy them.
> There is a wealth of experience in this thread.  Follow their lead and you'll be pleased.


 
  I hear what your saying but reading 425 pages is a bit of a tough read lol


----------



## Joong

Velvetx,
  Just random process, from collecting random information here and there to purchasing from various sellers.
  Following my desire which is operating in random manner.
  Life and creativity is also random process.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  If pursuing this subtlety driven perfectionism is based on well defined process, then it will not be fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  We actually drive the tube market by generating random reviews based on large sample space of decidability.


----------



## BobJS

(cross posted through several threads
   
   


pleasantsounds said:


> Quoting from another thread I'm following:
> 
> You want scary binaural? Try a virtual haircut. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA


 
   
  Wow...... never tried that before.  I listened through the Q701, the T1, and HE-500.  Finally, a good way to easily rank soundstage :
   
  1. HE-500
  2. Q701
  3. T1
   
  The HE-500s REALLY sounded like the sound was all around the room, way outside of my head.  Was playing from the Lyr with the Amperex A-Frame 6DJ8/ECC88 tubes known for great sound and soundstage


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> (cross posted through several threads
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I find the A frames lacking in bass still breaking in though. Concur on the sound stage!


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> I hear what your saying but reading 425 pages is a bit of a tough read lol


 
   
  It's a lot more fun to read than War and Peace.


----------



## Sanlitun

Lyr newbie here, I've had mine all of 4 hours now. I bought it to replace my Asgard 2 and the results have been everything I had hoped for.
   
  So a simple question out of curiosity: I ordered mine with the JJ E88CC's and so far so great. But how would you characterize the stock GE tubes in comparison?
   
  I'm sure someone has covered this before, but 425 pages....
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Radioking59

sceleratus said:


> Amperex....  Early 60's  Orange Globes <$  Bugle Boys $ < 6922.
> I don't have any stamped "PQ" or "SQ"  I believe those sound amazing and I believe they conform to the E188CC spec.
> 
> I know you have a pretty good collection.... For those starting out... IMO... pay $70 and get some mid 60's matched Orange Globes.
> ...




This was my plan. Get some Orange Globes as my first foray into rolling. Are you saying you prefer OGs to Bugle Boys? I'm not sure if you meant to use a less sign or not. It seems that Bugle Boys and OGs are close in price unless you get the BB D getter version. Mercedesman has some OG O getters right now for $80. I was set to order but kept reading and got more confused. So the O getters are better than the dimpled (L and A frame)?


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





toschek said:


> It's a lot more fun to read than War and Peace.


 
  I will give that one but there definitely is a learning curve


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I know I'll be corrected on this... I am a bit confused.
> 
> But Amperex = Philips, but they built valves for Mullard and visa versa.
> Amprex OG's were generally Holland.  The white label and 6922's New York.
> ...


 

 Thank you sure...very informative, I'll look for that RTC...right now I'm burning some siemens e188cc, it's amazing, and spectacular! they said its very close to Siemens CCa.
  anyway thanks


----------



## Radioking59

sanlitun said:


> Lyr newbie here, I've had mine all of 4 hours now. I bought it to replace my Asgard 2 and the results have been everything I had hoped for.
> 
> So a simple question out of curiosity: I ordered mine with the JJ E88CC's and so far so great. But how would you characterize the stock GE tubes in comparison?
> 
> ...




I haven't heard the JJs. From what I've read the GEs are a much better tube. The JJ have "non existent bass and rolled off highs." I almost did the same thing. If it costs more, it has to be better, right? 

Another member got some GEs from Nebraska Surplus for under $2 a tube a month ago. They won't be matched, but I don't know if that's a problem or not.


----------



## sceleratus

My personal taste...
  Get the OG's "O" getters.
  Great place to start.
  Best bang for the buck.
   
  I think you will like them much more then dimple getters.
  I certainly do.
   
  The whole thing is counterintuitive.  How can 50 year old electronics sound better than today.
  Trust me.  Older is better.
   
  Send me the link to check it over.
   
  If mercedesman doesn't back you.  I WILL.


----------



## toschek

Just rolled in the Lorenz SEL PCC189s into my SLI 80 and DAYUM SON, these sound great. IMO even better than my Telefunken cryoed 6922s.  So much air and tight right bass.  I'm sorta regretting letting my backup pair go.  Oh well, they show up on eBay frequently enough.  
   
  Those SELs are a great tube for the money.  Go out and score some while the price its still reasonable!!!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Thank you sure...very informative, I'll look for that RTC...right now I'm burning some siemens e188cc, it's amazing, and spectacular! they said its very close to Siemens CCa.
> anyway thanks


 
  Those valves are luscious.
  I recall saying, it's like the bow is pulling you over the strings..


----------



## sceleratus

+1


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Just rolled in the Lorenz SEL PCC189s into my SLI 80 and DAYUM SON, these sound great. IMO even better than my Telefunken cryoed 6922s.  So much air and tight right bass.  I'm sorta regretting letting my backup pair go.  Oh well, they show up on eBay frequently enough.
> 
> Those SELs are a great tube for the money.  Go out and score some while the price its still reasonable!!!


 
+1


----------



## ilikepooters

If anyone missed out on the SEL Lorenz PCC88's i can confirm these tubes are exactly the same thing.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260746635558?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
   
  Sel Lorenz PCC88's are made in Nis, Yugoslavia with Phillips tooling.
   
  The seller of the Phillips tubes confirmed they are also made in Nis, Yugoslavia.
   
  Just different labels folks


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> I haven't heard the JJs. From what I've read the GEs are a much better tube. The JJ have "non existent bass and rolled off highs." I almost did the same thing. If it costs more, it has to be better, right?
> 
> Another member got some GEs from Nebraska Surplus for under $2 a tube a month ago. They won't be matched, but I don't know if that's a problem or not.


 
  That would be me.  Got them from here:
   
http://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/6/TubesListed_6-2.html
   
  The 6BZ7s are till going for $1.60 per.
   
  Just be advised, these tube are "various brands" there's no way to guarantee which brand you get.  I lucked out, all the ones shipped to me were RCAs, which are the desired brand for these tubes in NOS. Another member got GEs.  Not quite as good, but since Schiit is selling those tubes for $10.00 per, it is a pretty big savings.
   
  Also, one member bought some, and got hit with high shipping cost.  It looks like 10 tubes cost $9.00 to ship.  If that's too high for your pocketbook, you may have better luck elsewhere.
   
  Remember, these are not matched.  Might want to buy a few in case you have serious volume level differences so you can swap a few in or out.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> But Amperex = Philips, but they built valves for Mullard and visa versa.
> Amprex OG's were generally Holland. The white label and 6922's New York.


 
   
  Well, no.
   
  Amperex was a US subsidiary of Philips. Amperex made a limited number of types in the US. They made, for example, 6922s and 7308s for the US military but they did not make 6DJ8s.
   
  Amperex made nothing in the Netherlands. The Dutch factories were Philips factories, not Amperex factories. Amperex _sold_, though, lots of tubes made by Philips in the Netherlands.
   
  Philips was a true tube giant:
   

 Valvo, a Philips subsidiary, made tubes in Hamburg, Germany.
 Mullard, a Philips subsidiary, made tubes in the UK.
 Radiotechnique (RT, later RTC), a Philips subsidiary, made tubes in France.
 etc.
   
_Cross-labeling_ was common.
   
  The name is *Philips*, not Phillips. (Likewise, it's Voskhod, not Voshkod.)
   
  Some days I feel like Don Quixote...


----------



## IcedTea

Anyone have any experience on the gold lion tubes on ebay? They're not NOS so I'm not sure if they're good or not. I was thinking on buying a pair just to see if tube rolling makes a big difference (still listening to the stock NOS tubes that came with the lyr lol)


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> Anyone have any experience on the gold lion tubes on ebay? They're not NOS so I'm not sure if they're good or not. I was thinking on buying a pair just to see if tube rolling makes a big difference (still listening to the stock NOS tubes that came with the lyr lol)


 
   
  Genalex Gold Lion tubes are current production (Brand new, made like 1-2 years ago) made in the Saratov factory in Russia.
   
  They do seem to get farourable reviews.
http://jda1951.xanga.com/765921724/new-sensor-genalex-gold-lion-6922/
   
   
 [size=x-small] _Listening Impressions:_[/size]
 [size=x-small]
 _Bass response is strong, laying a solid foundation to the music in much the same way as the Saratov (Reflector) 6H23π-EB (6N23P-EV)._
 _Although dialogue is clear and easy to follow, vocalists can sound “smaller” than life-size at times with mouth and throat predominating over the chest._
 _Treble is open and extended._
 _Low level detail is reference level._
 _Transient attack is not quite up to the level of reference vintage tubes._
 _Soundstage width, depth and height are near-reference grade and most like the Mullard PCC88._
 _Macro-dynamics are forceful and are most similar to the 6922EH in this regard. _
 _Lacks the tonal smoothness and grain-free quality of the best vintage tubes, as do the 6922EH and to a lesser degree, the Saratov 6H23π-EB (6N23P-EV)._
[/size]


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Well, no.
> 
> Amperex was a US subsidiary of Philips. Amperex made a limited number of types in the US. They made, for example, 6922s and 7308s for the US military but they did not make 6DJ8s.
> 
> Amperex made nothing in the Netherlands. The Dutch factories were Philips factories, not Amperex factories. Amperex _sold_, though, lots of tubes made by Philips in the Netherlands.


 
   
This is like "Deja Vu all over again"
   
   
Don,
I'm confused.  "Amperex" was a US subsidiary of Philips yet Philips=Amperex is incorrect.  




   
*subsidiary company*, *subsidiary*, or *daughter company*[1] is a company that is completely or partly owned and partly or wholly controlled by another company that owns more than half of the subsidiary's stock.
   
"Amperex made nothing in the Netherland" 





.....  yet the valves below say Amperex,  "Made in Holland".  The Netherlands was once known as "Holland"  or it might have been a subsidiary. 
   
 There is a "little triangle symbol" on the valve.  It means Heerlen.  Sometimes I spell it Herleen cuz I have a diploma from a high school in the USA.
   
  [size=small]A subsidiary is, "or may be" a "brand".  Example PepsiCola has subsidiaries, listed with the securities exchange commission, called Frito Lay and Quaker Oats, along with dozens of others.  These are also "brand names".  So I Quaker Oats = PepsiCo is correct.  Other than the fact you can't drink oats.[/size]
   
  [size=small]In the Philips Codes list I included with a prior post, it lists manufacturing symbols for cities where valves are made.  It does not list the quantity of valves produced so I can't tell is the New York plant made more or less valves than the Herleen or Mitcham factories.  Now I know that New York only made a few.  Protection and racketeering costs probably drove them out.[/size]
   
  [size=small]Sometimes I feel like Jeff Spicoli[/size]


----------



## sceleratus

I will not participate in discussing this topic further.
 It belongs on a different forum in a different thread.  
 I've also heard that very bad things can happen if discourse like this continues.
  
 Contestant #3:
 "Alex, I'll take Forum rules for $100"
  
 "Alex":
 "This person was no longer wel…."
  
 Contestant #2:
 "Buzzzzzz"
  
 "Who is …….. ?


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Don,
> I'm confused.  "Amperex" was a US subsidiary of Philips yet Philips=Amperex is incorrect.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Jeff,
   
  this is not complicated.
   
_Amperex _does not equal _Philips _because Philips as the parent company included a lot more than just Amperex.
   
  If a tube was made in the Netherlands, it was made by Philips whatever the brand printed on the tube. Philips certainly made a lot of tubes _for _Amperex, their US subsidiary, as did Mullard, their UK subsidiary.
   
  Please calm down, Jeff.
   
  Don


----------



## sceleratus




----------



## sceleratus

Update.
   
  Olga sent me a photo of the getters for the Mullard /RTC E188CC's.
  As suspected they have dimple getters, so they are from 72'.
   
  I'm thinking they should still sound good and that $120 is a fair price for them.
E188CC eBay Listing
   
  According to Tubemonger, a very large quantity of these valves hit the european market.
  As I recall, he thought $200 was a good price.
   
   

   
  Again, parcels from Lithuania take a Long Time to get to the USA.
  When a bunch of us bought Lorenz SEL's, some arrived in 3 weeks, some 4, mine 6, another 7 weeks.
  Everyone was very concerned.  Some got refunds, but in the end Everyone received their valves.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Those valves are luscious.
> I recall saying, it's like the bow is pulling you over the strings..


 

 OF COURSE!!!! I REMEMBER YOU KNOW!!!


----------



## gmahler2u




----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> OF COURSE!!!! I REMEMBER YOU KNOW!!!


 
  Are you glad you got your Lyr?
  Do you notice a difference between the Lyr and the Valhalla?


----------



## gmahler2u

it's more fun! but i'm about to go Bankrupt...


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> it's more fun! but i'm about to go Bankrupt...


 
   
  I'm not surprised judging by your list of gear lol


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I'm not surprised judging by your list of gear lol


 

 OH come on...I have nothing compare to the other headifers, It's like tip of the iceberg.


----------



## gerald410

These tubes arrived today [size=small]2 x PCC189-7ES8-SIEMENS-NOS-NEW-OWN BOX[/size] sound not bad at all right out the box. I perceive some airyness and a nice sound stage. Time for some burn in


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote:


gmahler2u said:


> OH come on...I have nothing compare to the other headifers, It's like tip of the iceberg.


   
  I intend to get HD800, and then save up for some Stax 007 MKII's, that will surely bankrupt me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote:


gerald410 said:


> These tubes arrived today [size=small]2 x PCC189-7ES8-SIEMENS-NOS-NEW-OWN BOX[/size] sound not bad at all right out the box. I perceive some airyness and a nice sound stage. Time for some burn in


 
   
  Did you get the A frame ones with dimple getter? Or are they the tri-mica O getter like in the picture on ebay?


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Did you get the A frame ones with dimple getter? Or are they the tri-mica O getter like in the picture on ebay?


 
  I have to look but i'm really liking the sound of them I will report back later once i have a chance to confirm, can you give a link for the pics of the 2 versions in this thread if its no trouble thanks. Its looks like A Frame based on the pics.


----------



## HK_sends

Hey everyone,
   
  The guys at TubeMonger monitor this thread and occasionally send me some good information to post relating to tubes for the Lyr, so I thought I would share:
   
  "It is not a good idea to use any random valve for Audio applications. For example variable mu valves like ECC189/PCC189. Sort of having a graphic equalizer in the signal path that changes randomly on the fly.
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.mpl?forum=tubes&searchtext=pcc189

 Tube in the following post is late 1970s Tesla PCC88 with Lorenz Select Label. No connection with German Lorenz except for the label.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/6345#post_9347114

 Halo getter for 1960s production does not apply to all companies. Dimple disk getter came only from Philips associated companies in Europe/Asia (Philips Holland/Amperex, Valvo, Mullard, Ei Yugo, Bel India etc.). Other companies like Tungsram, Tesla, Siemens, RTC France produced Halo getter valves through 1970s and 1980s if they were still open.

 Rare materials only in 1960s valves is a myth. Some of the best tubes out of UK were made by Genalex/GEC in 1970s. Side note: Genalex never made ECC88/E88CC valves. Most would Genalex/GEC ECC88/E88CC are rebranded Mullards). While 1960s was the peak of Valve tech, most 1960s/1970s valves from Europe are superb.

 Tubemonger
www.tubemonger.com

 For your tube ID Questions
www.tubemongerlib.com"
   
  As always, thanks guys!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> The guys at TubeMonger monitor this thread and occasionally send me some good information to post relating to tubes for the Lyr, so I thought I would share:
> 
> ...


 
  well I'l be.
  This must be correct sceleratus day.
  plenty of disclaimers in that post.
   
  we'll change "I may be wrong" to "I am wrong." Or maybe "don't believe anything I posts"
  After all, I'm just a Dufus on a forum.
   
  EDIT:
  You just made Oskari's day.


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Lyr newbie here, I've had mine all of 4 hours now. I bought it to replace my Asgard 2 and the results have been everything I had hoped for.
> 
> So a simple question out of curiosity: I ordered mine with the JJ E88CC's and so far so great. But how would you characterize the stock GE tubes in comparison?
> 
> ...


 
  To my ear, GE stock tube JAN 6bq7a = Bugle boy 6DJ8 = SEL Lorez PCC88 = Telefuken 6922 all are similar sounding with subtle difference.
  I might not have sensitive ears, but I still figure it out why I am so isolated from my fellow headfiers here.
   
  I try to give a chance to my Telefunken by giving more time to burn-in, in order to justify my expense.
  Today is the 2nd day with Telefunken, and I notice that with small volume the sound is not granny, but sweet, which is a good sign.
  However Lyr with any tube is better than my two other SS amplifiers.
  I think the stock tubes are not bad ones.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> well I'l be.
> This must be correct sceleratus day.
> plenty of disclaimers in that post.
> 
> ...


 
  Don't shoot the messenger! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> "It is not a good idea to use any random valve for Audio applications. For example variable mu valves like ECC189/PCC189. Sort of having a graphic equalizer in the signal path that changes randomly on the fly.
> http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.mpl?forum=tubes&searchtext=pcc189
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


 
   
  But they sound so fantastic! So what's going on? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If i understand correctly, mu is just gain right? I can't see variable gain being a problem, surely if it was up and down all the time i'd notice the sound getting louder and quieter constantly?
   
  I don't know how all this stuff works exactly, but i imagine the variable mu only kicks in when the input to the tube is changed, either stronger or weaker, i don't think Schiit would build an amp where the signal to the tubes is all over the place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm probably getting all of this wrapped around my neck, but the PCC189's i've used thus far sound fantastic to me, excellent detail and expansive, sound better than all other tubes i have/had like RCA 6BQ7A, GE 6BZ7, SEL Lorenz PCC88.
   
  Should i just stick with what my ears are telling me?


----------



## HK_sends

It's the sound that makes you happy.  Specifications are great and are out there for a reason, but it all comes down to what you are happy with.
   
  As always, this is IMHO and YMMV!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## toschek

hk_sends said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> The guys at TubeMonger monitor this thread and occasionally send me some good information to post relating to tubes for the Lyr, so I thought I would share:
> 
> ...




Except they don't seem to actually work that way in practice. I've never noticed any odd harmonics or anything resembling variable EQ while listening. Of course your mileage may vary with the PCC189 but they sound pretty good regardless of the vari-mu and it won't harm your amp so at the price I'm comfortable experimenting.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> But they sound so fantastic! So what's going on?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> How long has it been so far?


 

 Couple of weeks. But the tracking is completely borked, so a replacement pair will be mailed. At this point, I don't think it will ever change the fact that I will never receive a pair of pair of S&H ccas. I have another pair that I pulled the trigger on. The real deal. 5 business days and their just not happening at all so far.  Seriously, I think maybe the seller is hoping I ask for a refund because the price point did not go into its usual crazyland.


----------



## NightFlight

You can get random untested OG pulls and hope for the best for $10-17 a pop. Seller 'goldengavellistings' will refund non-working for up to 14days after receipt. If a pair comes out of the same pull, chances are they are still "matched".
   
  Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I know I'll be corrected on this... I am a bit confused.
> 
> But Amperex = Philips, but they built valves for Mullard and visa versa.
> Amprex OG's were generally Holland.  The white label and 6922's New York.
> ...


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Lyr newbie here, I've had mine all of 4 hours now. I bought it to replace my Asgard 2 and the results have been everything I had hoped for.
> 
> So a simple question out of curiosity: I ordered mine with the JJ E88CC's and so far so great. But how would you characterize the stock GE tubes in comparison?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Much like 'lifting a veil'. Only to reveal another. Repeat.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Except they don't seem to actually work that way in practice. I've never noticed any odd harmonics or anything resembling variable EQ while listening. Of course your mileage may vary with the PCC189 but they sound pretty good regardless of the vari-mu and it won't harm your amp so at the price I'm comfortable experimenting.


 
  I'd be willing to give 'em a try (if I hadn't just spent all my money on the Bugle Boy D-Getter tubes)...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

What is you guy's opinions on the Lyr with the HD800?


----------



## gmahler2u

I found this RTC in ebay but not match ones. you think wise to get this separately or wait for the match ones.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7822-RTC-MADE-IN-HOLLAND-MORE-AVAILABLE-/111037665429?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19da5c5095


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I found this RTC in ebay but not match ones. you think wise to get this separately or wait for the match ones.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7822-RTC-MADE-IN-HOLLAND-MORE-AVAILABLE-/111037665429?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19da5c5095


 
  Gustav,
   
  Those are them !!
  Mine are a little older.  1965
   
  They look perfect.
   
  My interpretation is they are all the same production codes, he is just selling them one at a time.  That
  he didn't publish test codes....  But, from what I see, only half the eBay sellers publish test results.  
   
  "triangle"  Holland Plant... check.
  "7"  1967...check
  "J" September.... check.
  "5"  5th week of production...  I guess they use short weeks in numbering 
   
  I went for a pair...


----------



## kessomatt

The dt990's are a tad bright on my stock tubes. Can anyone recommend something a litter darker(cheap)?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





kessomatt said:


> The dt990's are a tad bright on my stock tubes. Can anyone recommend something a litter darker(cheap)?


 
   
  Mullard 6BQ7A - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370791359478?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  Very cheap, and i've just bought a pair 
   
  I reckon they should be pretty warm being Mullards.
   
  *EDIT*
  I believe these were made by Brimar, in which case i feel pretty silly because i've already ordered a set of Brimar 6BQ7A 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 here's hoping they sound fantastic so i can consider one of them a backup pair


----------



## dc-k

ditto


----------



## GrindingThud

They look like they have a completely different plate structure....so they most likely will sound different. 


ilikepooters said:


> Mullard 6BQ7A - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370791359478?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> 
> Very cheap, and i've just bought a pair
> ...


----------



## ilikepooters

Blimey they sold out already, hope kessomatt managed to grab a pair.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> What is you guy's opinions on the Lyr with the HD800?


 
  anyone?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> anyone?


 
   
  There are a lot of people who enjoy using them with Lyr.
   
  Sound will depend greatly on which tubes you use though.


----------



## kessomatt

Dang it! Missed them.



ilikepooters said:


> Blimey they sold out already, hope kessomatt managed to grab a pair.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> anyone?


 
   
  Sorry, I can't help you, I don't have that particular set of cans...


----------



## toschek

oicwutudidthar said:


> anyone?




It is swell with the HD800 and I wouldn't have sold mine if I hadn't wanted to run speakers as well. It is still very tube dependent with these headphones, as the HD800s are a very transparent set of cans. If you use crappy tubes, it will sound crappy. Roll in some nice tubes and you'll be happy.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> There are a lot of people who enjoy using them with Lyr.
> 
> Sound will depend greatly on which tubes you use though.


 
  Could you recommend some tubes that compliment the HD800s?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Could you recommend some tubes that compliment the HD800s?


 
   
  Well i imagine HD800's will be a pretty neutral set of cans, so depends where you want to go from there really.
   
  I think the whole point of tubes is to add a little bit of coloration, otherwise you may as well just have a solid state amp.
   
  For me personally, if a set of cans is neutral i'd probably want to add some warmth, so if i had the money i'd buy some British Mullard E88CC gold pins to start off with.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





kessomatt said:


> The dt990's are a tad bright on my stock tubes. Can anyone recommend something a litter darker(cheap)?


 
   
   
  I think a tube that could really suit your cans would be the 6N23P-EV.
   
  Some say it's junk but others really rate the sound. If you can get them cheap enough they are surely worth giving a go.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-Pair-Reflector-NOS-Military-6N23P-EV-E88CC-6922-6dj8-ECC88-Tubes-/170997877193?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27d04489c9
   
   


> Superbly sounding tube, with great transparency, huge soundstage and fantastic bass!!! These are one of the best 6922 tubes that I've tried in my amps. Internal construction is something to see! Looks like it's been built for use in a tank or a rocket!


 
   
  Those are pretty expensive on that link, here are some cheaper ones.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-6N23P-EV-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-Reflector-tube-1980s-NOS-/281091146759?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4172568407
   
   
  There is also the non-ruggedized version, 6N23P without the EV, these are cheaper but won't last as long, might sound slightly different too due to differing construction.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-Reflector-plant-NOS-1970s-/160933507362?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2578627122
   
  All variants of this tube reportedly take a lot of burn in, some say 100 hours, and the treble can be slightly harsh until they have burned in properly.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I found this RTC in ebay but not match ones. you think wise to get this separately or wait for the match ones.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7822-RTC-MADE-IN-HOLLAND-MORE-AVAILABLE-/111037665429?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19da5c5095


 
Did you order a set?
   
If the valves that come in sound like the RTC's I have now, I'm going to sell some of my other valves.
69' OG's,  65' USN-CEP, maybe 60 6922 "D" getter and others.  
   
This is what the 65' RTC's I have now look like:  1965, I paid $140
   
   

   
This is the photo from the eBay listing for the 67' RTC's   I paid $160 for them and they look great.  Note the large "O" getter.
eBay Listing for 1967 La Radiotechnique


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I think a tube that could really suit your cans would be the 6N23P-EV.
> 
> Some say it's junk but others really rate the sound. If you can get them cheap enough they are surely worth giving a go.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-Pair-Reflector-NOS-Military-6N23P-EV-E88CC-6922-6dj8-ECC88-Tubes-/170997877193?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27d04489c9


 
  A comment.  I don't understand why sellers list their valves as E88CC/6922/ECC88/6DJ8.  Although they fit in the amplifier and sound good they are entirely different valves with different specs.
  The other 2 seller were better than the first listing.   There is no way this is equivalent to a 6922.  It's like all cars have for wheels so they are the same.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> A comment.  I don't understand why sellers list their valves as E88CC/6922/ECC88/6DJ8.  Although they fit in the amplifier and sound good they are entirely different valves with different specs.
> The other 2 seller were better than the first listing.   There is no way this is equivalent to a 6922.  It's like all cars have for wheels so they are the same.


 
  While there are differences, they are still considered part of the same tube "family"; 6volt, 9-pin, and dual triodes.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> While there are differences, they are still considered part of the same tube "family"; 6volt, 9-pin, and dual triodes.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
Agreed, same family.  9 pin dual triode, and we know there are many permutations of ECC88.  E=6.3V, CC=Triode,Triode, 88=Noval base.  PCC88 P=7V.. etc, etc. (Not sure why 8 is repeated.) 
Plus redundant two digit designations. Example  "VR" = E188CC.  "7L" E88CC "DJ" PCC88
   
I get that.   As you stated in an earlier post, "All that matters is that you enjoy the valve"  (something like that) I agree 100%.
   
But the difference between valves are not trivial.  A Seller should not leave a Noob with the impression that the valves they are buying are the same as 6922.  They are Not the same.   Now if the Buyer buys them and thinks they sound as good as a 6922 he owns.... That's a totally different situation.  Might have someone that buys "PQ's" and likes the stock Lyr valves better.  Fine.   This is a subjective hobby.
   
All those words and this is all I'm saying... A seller should not call an ECC88 a 6922.


----------



## Joong

My Telefunken E88CC gold pin has "A3 8H" inscribed on metal plate inside tube.
  What does it mean?


----------



## toschek

Well if you want SEO to pick up your eBay ads, it pays to misinform. In that sense it's critical that forums and posts like this one specifically exist. In a way I wish this post was named "The 6922/6dj8/e88cc/ecc88/pcc88/7308/cv2492 and schiit lyr discussion thread". Quite a mouthful really, but this is one of the most useful threads going on ye olde internets for this particular subject.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Well if you want SEO to pick up your eBay ads, it pays to misinform. In that sense it's critical that forums and posts like this one specifically exist. In a way I wish this post was named "The 6922/6dj8/e88cc/ecc88/pcc88/7308/cv2492 and schiit lyr discussion thread". Quite a mouthful really, but this is one of the most useful threads going on ye olde internets for this particular subject.


 
  Good old SEO snake oil.
  correct-a-mundo.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Agreed, same family.  9 pin dual triode, and we know there are many permutations of ECC88.  E=6.3V, CC=Triode,Triode, 88=Noval base.  PCC88 P=7V.. etc, etc. (Not sure why 8 is repeated.)
> Plus redundant two digit designations. Example  "VR" = E188CC.  "7L" E88CC "DJ" PCC88
> 
> I get that.   As you stated in an earlier post, "All that matters is that you enjoy the valve"  (something like that) I agree 100%.
> ...


 
  Makes sense but remember, a lot of these tubes do have multiple tube types listed on the label (granting that 6922 is usually associated with E88CC and ECC88 is associated with 6DJ8).  I think the multiple designations is more to tell the potential buyer that the 6922/ECC88/6DJ8/E88CC/CCa/etc. can fit in a socket/circuit designed for the 6922/ECC88/6DJ8/E88CC/CCa/etc.  You are right, the sounds are varied and different (I prefer the sounds of the ECC88 and PCC88 variants myself).  When I was a noobier tube noob, I just bit the bullet and tried them all until I found something I liked.  That's half the fun!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
   
  Again, IMHO and YMMV...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

SEO?  Did I miss a reference here?
   
  If you guys want to discuss the merits (or lack of) of the different designations of the 6922 tube tube family and their cousins (and truth in advertising), it might be a good to start a separate thread (no, I am not complaining...merely suggesting).  The thread here was simply started to discuss the merits, sounds and experiences of folks that roll different tubes into the Lyr.  I have no problems offering my impressions of my musical experiences with the tubes I've used, but some of this discussion does sound more like sound science.  I think tube noobs need a thread to reference that discusses these differences because it goes beyond the Lyr.
   
  Just a suggestion...I'm not throwing stones...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## R Scott Ireland

gmahler2u said:


> I found this RTC in ebay but not match ones. you think wise to get this separately or wait for the match ones.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7822-RTC-MADE-IN-HOLLAND-MORE-AVAILABLE-/111037665429?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19da5c5095




You guys have cost me a fortune. I couldn't resist a pair of these, just when I thought I had sworn off more tube buying. I'm afraid to add up the cost of my current tube inventory, but I bet it's averaging about $1 per message in this bloody thread 

Seriously, I now am thinking of getting another "backup" Lyr, so that I'm always sure to have something that will work well with all of these tubes. I wonder if a Lyr 2 is a possibility in the near future?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> You guys have cost me a fortune. I couldn't resist a pair of these, just when I thought I had sworn off more tube buying. I'm afraid to add up the cost of my current tube inventory, but I bet it's averaging about $1 per message in this bloody thread
> 
> Seriously, I now am thinking of getting another "backup" Lyr, so that I'm always sure to have something that will work well with all of these tubes. I wonder if a Lyr 2 is a possibility in the near future?


 
  Or you can roll the tubes into the newer version Valhalla. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## toschek

I'm not optimistic for a Lyr 2 anytime soon, they are hyper-focused on the statement products. I'm keeping my ammo dry for the DAC. Anyway I'm pretty sure the statement amp isn't going to use 6dj8-type tubes although no one what they will use.


----------



## sceleratus

HK_
   
  we're say'n the same thing.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> HK_
> 
> we're say'n the same thing.


 
  Oh...well...ok then....please disregard everything after hello! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## claud W

Its been about a week since I rolled in those relabled Amperex 7308s. I like them so much I can't get myself to start on rolling in the Telfunken 6922s. I guess I will wait another week.


----------



## nelamvr6

I'm finally winning over inertia!
   
  I'm burning in my safety pair of my favorites, the Amperex USN-CEP 6922s.  Once I'm sure they'll work I'm going to roll in some Bugle Boys...


----------



## R Scott Ireland

hk_sends said:


> Or you can roll the tubes into the newer version Valhalla.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmm . . that may be a good plan!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

toschek said:


> I'm not optimistic for a Lyr 2 anytime soon, they are hyper-focused on the statement products. I'm keeping my ammo dry for the DAC. Anyway I'm pretty sure the statement amp isn't going to use 6dj8-type tubes although no one what they will use.




It sure would be handy if it did use 6DJ8's. Any technical reason(s) why you think it won't? Is it going to be all SS?


----------



## ilikepooters

Unbranded E188CC - Note the 4 ridges on top of the tubes
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7308-E188CC-UNBRANDED-EX-MILITARY-NEW-VALVE-1-PC-/390358437498?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item5ae32d0e7a
   
   
  Appears to be the same construction as these Tele's
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Telefunken-E88CC-tube-100-emisssion-tested-frame-grid-CCa-6922-E188CC-/200854800051?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2ec3e106b3
   
  Could there be unbranded Tele's going cheap?
   
  *EDIT*
   
  More than likely they are Military spec Mullards, still a massive saving.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MULLARD-CV4109-M-Pairs-NOS-1967-MIL-E188CC-CV4108-7308-/160533000646?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item25608331c6


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





joong said:


> My Telefunken E88CC gold pin has "A3 8H" inscribed on metal plate inside tube.
> What does it mean?


 
   
  It is further proof that the tube is a Siemens E88CC (branded Telefunken). That metal tag with the 2x2 character pattern was used by Siemens. (Earlier they had used the Philips-type code etched on the tube.) While I haven't seen this code properly explained, I'm fairly convinced that "8" is the last digit of production year.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Unbranded E188CC - Note the 4 ridges on top of the tubes
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7308-E188CC-UNBRANDED-EX-MILITARY-NEW-VALVE-1-PC-/390358437498?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item5ae32d0e7a
> 
> Could there be unbranded Tele's going cheap?


 
   
  They wouldn't have missed the <> and the construction is not an exact match.
   


> More than likely they are Military spec Mullards, still a massive saving.


 
   
  I think that they are more likely to be BEL tubes made in India as speculated in the auction description.


----------



## Oskari

claud w said:


> Its been about a week since I rolled in those relabled Amperex 7308s.


 
   
  Do you mean the following?
   


claud w said:


>


 
   
  Do I see a metal tag with characters on it inside the tube on the right?


----------



## nelamvr6

I just rolled out my beloved USN-CEPs and rolled in some Bugle Boys.  I cyphered out the date codes, these appear to be NOS from 1966.
   
  The first thing I noticed was that these have much more gain the the USN-CEPs.    The second thing I noticed is that right out of the box they sound pretty damn nice!  I can't wait to see (hear) how well they burn in!


----------



## tuna47

I am ordering a lyr soon and want to know are there good tubes for the $60 a pair range


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I am ordering a lyr soon and want to know are there good tubes for the $60 a pair range


 
   
  What sort of sound are you looking for?


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





oskari said:


> It is further proof that the tube is a Siemens E88CC (branded Telefunken). That metal tag with the 2x2 character pattern was used by Siemens. (Earlier they had used the Philips-type code etched on the tube.) While I haven't seen this code properly explained, I'm fairly convinced that "8" is the last digit of production year.


 
  Thanks for your kind explanation.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  The seller stated the same line of explanation for without <> marks on them due to their being Siemens product in 60s.


----------



## tuna47

Good sound stage detailed but smooth listen to contemporary jazz


----------



## nelamvr6

tuna47 said:


> I am ordering a lyr soon and want to know are there good tubes for the $60 a pair range




You can get Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s for $70 to $90 for a matched pair. I'm listening to a pair now, and they are very, very nice.


----------



## tuna47

Thanks


----------



## Joong

My Telefunken E88CC has been broken-in for around 5 hours, and now start to revealing its value in higher band.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  From muffled to clean and smoother sound, I would have been patient enough for them to sound better.
  I do not know how long should I wait for the full potential.


----------



## nelamvr6

joong said:


> My Telefunken E88CC has been broken-in for around 5 hours, and now start to revealing its value in higher band.
> From muffled to clean and smoother sound, I would have been patient enough for them to sound better.
> I do not know how long should I wait for the full potential.




The 100 hour number has been thrown around a lot. Personally, I don't think it takes that long. But if you're enjoying the sound you're getting, just keep listening, and note when it stabilizes.


----------



## toschek

r scott ireland said:


> It sure would be handy if it did use 6DJ8's. Any technical reason(s) why you think it won't? Is it going to be all SS?




Technical reasons, no, but Jason had an email exchange with a fellow head-fier where he explicitly stated that the statement amp used different tubes in the hybrid option than the ones in either the Lyr or Valhalla. The rumor is that there will be two options, a SS and hybrid tube, similar to the Lyr (superficially at least). This topic has been covered in the "Schiit Owners Unite!" thread. Due to the number of potential tube applications in a hybrid design, it would be stupid to speculate as to which tubes will be used other than "not 6dj8", although one would hope they'd put the tube complement where it matters most (input stage) which would naturally limit potential candidates to just a few (including "not 6dj8"). Things may change though, as we still know nothing about the statement amp other than that it will cost 2x what a Mjolnir amp costs and that it will be offered in a pure SS or hybrid configuration.


----------



## toschek

... although if I had to speculate (I am stupid after all), probably 6SN7.


----------



## ilikepooters

Lorenz Stuttgarts incoming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Not quite the famed PCC88's though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Managed to grab a couple of ECC85's for about £37 posted.
   
  ECC85's are pretty much the same as running 6N1P's in Lyr, so i'm looking forward to trying them.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Lorenz Stuttgarts incoming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 where is Lorenz Stuttgart?  ebay?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> where is Lorenz Stuttgart?  ebay?


 
  Like this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lorenz-ECC85-6AQ8-Tests-Excellent-Made-in-Germany-/111027091574?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d9baf876
   
  but the labels on mine look older/darker like this: http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_3MIGray_Shield_Germany_p/1057.htm
   
  Not a matched pair, bought the tubes individually from different sellers, i'm just hoping that by some stroke of luck they are pretty close.


----------



## Junior mints

Hello! I'm the proud owner of the Schiit Lyr, Bifrost, and a pair of LCD-2s. This is my first rig and the only experience I have had in the audiophile world is a set of Weston UM3X iems. I'm looking for the perfect set of tubes to cover a wide range of music from Adele to Rage Against the Machine.
   
  I am still reading posts very early in this thread and am needing advice on what to get. I currently have and like the GE tubes provided by Schiit. I bough a set of Amperex ECC88 off ebay when i got the amp and I find them just 'okay' but I don't know what year they are and am not sure if these are the ones that are suppose to be 'great'. Could you all recognize them and maybe point me int the direction of brands that offer a good and detailed mid range. I feel like I'm missing that extra 'umph' in the lower end. thanks in advance!!


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





oskari said:


> They wouldn't have missed the <> and the construction is not an exact match.
> 
> 
> I think that they are more likely to be BEL tubes made in India as speculated in the auction description.


 
   

 The thing I see is that the getter mounted by a lightly weighted stick of a shaft. Later tubes seemed to use this type. I'm going to take a leap here and say that tubes that utilize a heavier set getter stand have significantly less chance of being microphonic. There are numerous valve add-ons/toys you can buy that attempt to dampen the structure from micro vibrations. If the construction employs a light wire frame structure, IMHO its a bad starting point. The more highly sought models of early tubes appear to use heavier construction in this regard.  So unless I'm way off base then the construction of this tube indicates it may not perform the best. YMMV.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> Hello! I'm the proud owner of the Schiit Lyr, Bifrost, and a pair of LCD-2s. This is my first rig and the only experience I have had in the audiophile world is a set of Weston UM3X iems. I'm looking for the perfect set of tubes to cover a wide range of music from Adele to Rage Against the Machine.
> 
> I am still reading posts very early in this thread and am needing advice on what to get. I currently have and like the GE tubes provided by Schiit. I bough a set of Amperex ECC88 off ebay when i got the amp and I find them just 'okay' but I don't know what year they are and am not sure if these are the ones that are suppose to be 'great'. Could you all recognize them and maybe point me int the direction of brands that offer a good and detailed mid range. I feel like I'm missing that extra 'umph' in the lower end. thanks in advance!!


 
   
  Some of the earlier Amperex with orange global logos will give back some of that bass punch you are looking for. They predate the dimple a-frame getter style and have a ring instead.  These are good photos... but priced pretty high: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-NOS-/321105336815?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac35e99ef


----------



## Junior mints

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Some of the earlier Amperex with orange global logos will give back some of that bass punch you are looking for. They predate the dimple a-frame getter style and have a ring instead.  These are good photos... but priced pretty high: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-NOS-/321105336815?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac35e99ef


 

 They look great! The price is better than I was expecting for a pair. So these will be better than the Schiit stock tubes? I am very interested in something like these especially for the price.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Technical reasons, no, but Jason had an email exchange with a fellow head-fier where he explicitly stated that the statement amp used different tubes in the hybrid option than the ones in either the Lyr or Valhalla. The rumor is that there will be two options, a SS and hybrid tube, similar to the Lyr (superficially at least). This topic has been covered in the "Schiit Owners Unite!" thread. Due to the number of potential tube applications in a hybrid design, it would be stupid to speculate as to which tubes will be used other than "not 6dj8", although one would hope they'd put the tube complement where it matters most (input stage) which would naturally limit potential candidates to just a few (including "not 6dj8"). Things may change though, as we still know nothing about the statement amp other than that it will cost 2x what a Mjolnir amp costs and that it will be offered in a pure SS or hybrid configuration.


 
   
  Thanks for the detailed info!  I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Some of the earlier Amperex with orange global logos will give back some of that bass punch you are looking for. They predate the dimple a-frame getter style and have a ring instead.  These are good photos... but priced pretty high: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-NOS-/321105336815?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac35e99ef


 
   
  Mercedesman is a great guy to deal with too!  
   
  $40 per tube doesn't seem all that high to me, especially considering Schiit is selling those GE 6BZ7s for $10 per tube...
   
  At any rate, those tubes will definitely be a step up from the ones in the photo above.  Another tube to look for, and they'll probably be about the same price, is the Bugle Boy 6DJ8. In fact, Mercedesman happens to have some in his eBay store.
   
  If you value bass extension, the Orange Globes will probably be a better choice.  But you could always try both.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> The thing I see is that the getter mounted by a lightly weighted stick of a shaft. Later tubes seemed to use this type. I'm going to take a leap here and say that tubes that utilize a heavier set getter stand have significantly less chance of being microphonic. There are numerous valve add-ons/toys you can buy that attempt to dampen the structure from micro vibrations. If the construction employs a light wire frame structure, IMHO its a bad starting point. The more highly sought models of early tubes appear to use heavier construction in this regard.  So unless I'm way off base then the construction of this tube indicates it may not perform the best. YMMV.


 
   
   
  It seems that lighter support structures should be more susceptible to microphonics, that makes sense.
   
  But I've yet to have any problems with microphonics, and I've never had a tube that didn't use the simple shaft supporting the getter.
   
  I suppose I may just be lucky.  I do use dampeners anyway, an ounce of prevention and all that...


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Mercedesman is a great guy to deal with too!
> 
> $40 per tube doesn't seem all that high to me, especially considering Schiit is selling those GE 6BZ7s for $10 per tube...
> 
> ...


 
   
  +1.  Mercedesman is great and you can't go too far wrong with Orange Globes or Bugle Boys.


----------



## ilikepooters

I need someone to stop me spending money on tubes, just bought some 6N23P's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130887531186?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  They're not matched so i thought i might as well go for 3 tubes, at least 2 of them should sound pretty close.
  1968 year as well if that makes any difference.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> I bough a set of Amperex ECC88 off ebay when i got the amp and I find them just 'okay' but I don't know what year they are and am not sure if these are the ones that are suppose to be 'great'. Could you all recognize them and maybe point me int the direction of brands that offer a good and detailed mid range. I feel like I'm missing that extra 'umph' in the lower end. thanks in advance!!


 
   
  You seem to have Amperex-branded ECC88s made by Mullard at Blackburn in, I suppose, 1976. There is a fair chance that you might prefer the Dutch versions made by Philips at Heerlen – or you might want something punchier still.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> They look great! The price is better than I was expecting for a pair. So these will be better than the Schiit stock tubes? I am very interested in something like these especially for the price.


 
  Its misleading. It's per tube on that auction I believe. The Amperex OG has punchier bass, but more narrow of a soundstage. There are better tubes out there for the price listed.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Its misleading. It's per tube on that auction I believe. The Amperex OG has punchier bass, but more narrow of a soundstage. There are better tubes out there for the price listed.


 
  No, that was for matched pairs. $80.00 for a matched pair of Orange Globes from 1968.  Granted, they're not NOS, but they're very low hours that test extremely well.  It is in fact a pretty decent price for some really great tubes!
  
  Here's what Joe, of Joe's Tube Lore fame, had to say about the Orange Globes:
   
   
   


> Amperex 6DJ8, Orange globe logo, Holland (shield, steel pins,) Much better than the above tube No comparison in fact. Warm, vibrant, lively, grainless, transparent Amperex sound. Killer tube. Almost as good as my reference Amperex 6922s (coming up soon). I slightly prefer this tube to the best of the Siemens 6DJ8s, 6922s & 7308s.


 
   
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You can get Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s for $70 to $90 for a matched pair. I'm listening to a pair now, and they are very, very nice.


 
   
  I keep passing those over.
   
  Got my Brimmar ECC88s today.  Been listening for an hour or so.
  Their definitely more mid-centric. I wouldn't call it "Lush".
   
  On the plus, they've got lots of snap/bite.
  On the downside, too much push the mids  for this rig methinks.
   
  They are warming up the HD800s, but time for the burn-in. *sigh*  Maybe I just need to warm up to them?    ... Starting to think about the dark side again... _transistors_.... a few more tubes and I might be ready to throw in the Lyr towel. This sonic bliss search is getting somewhat dis-heartening.


----------



## nelamvr6

BTW, there are only 5 pairs of those Orage Globes that Mercedesman has left, I bought two pair myself!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Of course, he has more, just not that lot. He always seems to have lots of great tubes...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I keep passing those over.
> 
> Got my Brimmar ECC88s today.  Been listening for an hour or so.
> Their definitely more mid-centric. I wouldn't call it "Lush".
> ...


 
   
  Are the mids too "tubey", or are you looking for more fluid mids?


----------



## Junior mints

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> BTW, there are only 5 pairs of those Orage Globes that Mercedesman has left, I bought two pair myself!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I had to hop on it myself. Looking forward to trying them out!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> I had to hop on it myself. Looking forward to trying them out!


 
   
   





  I'll be rolling mine in just as soon as they arrive!


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I need someone to stop me spending money on tubes, just bought some 6N23P's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You and me both just sprung for the orange globes lord help me lol. The amount of money I've thrown around on audio in the last month is dumb( tubes, he- 500. Schiit gear, Triton Three's and an Oppo 103 this madness has to stop!!!!! But My crap sounds pretty good lol


----------



## velvetx

Just picked up a pair. Will add it to my tube collection.


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> The 100 hour number has been thrown around a lot. Personally, I don't think it takes that long. But if you're enjoying the sound you're getting, just keep listening, and note when it stabilizes.


 
  I realized that it was a placebo effect.
  When I once again tried to listen to the tube, it was the same sound quality to my ear still.
  It seems that my Lyr is independent of tubes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I found that the stock GE tube is more tubey and smoother than any, including my Siemens Cca arrived today!
  Is it possible?


----------



## sceleratus

The E188CC
  
  Go see Brent Jesse site.  Brent has been in the business many many years.  He is well known.  Other tube seller quote him in their listings.  Go to the link and search the page for "RTC" E188CC.  Read about them ...... then look at the price.
  There are several different flavors.
Brent Jesse
   
  Next take a look at this eBay listing.  (I bought a pair)
   
E188CC RTC eBay
   
  These were made in the Heerlen.    Again, read Brent's site.  These are the same as "PQ" and "SQ".
  If you do not have any Big "O" getters in your collection.... you should.

   
  IMO.  YMMV
  Math:
  1 pair.  $160  or 2 sets of OG's
  Not say'n I don't like OG's
  These are an elevator ride up.


----------



## Junior mints

Quote: 





joong said:


> I realized that it was a placebo effect.
> When I once again tried to listen to the tube, it was the same sound quality to my ear still.
> It seems that my Lyr is independent of tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 After swapping the misc. Amperex I had with the GE's I noticed they sound 'better'.. Not up to par on my terminology, but maybe it was more full sounding. Excited to get the Orange Globe to experience the real deal. I'll continue to give the stock GE's some serious listening until that day comes.


----------



## billerb1

After hearing my Denon D-5000's on my son's Lyr/Bifrost combination I dumped my Yulong D100 MKII and just got my own Lyr/Bifrost. So much more MEAT !!!!!!!!!!  You'd think the Lyr would be bigtime overkill with the low impedance Denons...but it's just headroom heaven.  And zero noise !!!
  Have heard the Denons with the stock JJ's and the Gold Lions...actually prefer the more analytical sound (to me) of the stocks to the warmer Gold Lions sound.  My question is...any tips on a killer tube that anyone's found specifically for the Denons (2000, 5000 or 7000) ???
  Suggestions and why.  Thanks !!!!!!!!


----------



## ForsakenArcher

^^ My denons are noisy with Lyr though. I dare not go beyond 9 o'clock on the pot and even below that noise is largely noticeable when no music is playing. They sound great out of Lyr though, albeit with noise.


----------



## xpersona

Here goes the question I should have asked earlier...
   
  I ordered Bifrost/Lyr combination from Schiit a few days ago.
   
  I also ordered 6BZ7, 6N1P and E88CC tubes from Schiit as well as matched British Mullards CV2492 (year 1966) on eBay.
   
  Will there be a noticeable improvement compared to my Maverick TubeMagic D1 Plus (with all standard upgrades)?
   
  Phones - HD650.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





xpersona said:


> Here goes the question I should have asked earlier...
> 
> I ordered Bifrost/Lyr combination from Schiit a few days ago.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have both so, i feel i can comment here.
   
  I'm using the D1 as a DAC at the moment to feed the Lyr until i can get something better, but the headphone output on the Lyr far exceeds the one on the D1, it's like a veil has been lifted, because the Lyr has the power to drive the headphones properly i guess.
   
  I think the Lyr will sound better when i get a better DAC like Bifrost or something.
   
  *EDIT* just read you're using D1 Plus + upgrades, mines just the standard D1, no upgrades.


----------



## xpersona

Thanks for your reply!
   
  Will I hear ambient noise on Lyr? The thing I like a lot about D1 is that regardless of how high the set volume is the background is silent.


----------



## ilikepooters

My D1 unfortunately isn't so silent, but i have to turn the volume up a long way before i hear hissing/buzzing, and obviously this translates to the Lyr. But if i turn off the D1 and turn up the volume pot on the Lyr, hissing/buzzing is much less, nearly non-existant.
   
  So should be pretty silent with your D1 being more silent than mine.


----------



## tjl5709

Quote: 





xpersona said:


> Thanks for your reply!
> 
> Will I hear ambient noise on Lyr? The thing I like a lot about D1 is that regardless of how high the set volume is the background is silent.


 
   
  With clean, burned in tubes, I hear no noise thru the Bifrost/lyr with my HD-650's.
   
  I've purchased quite a few NOS tubes and they were noisey at first, but after about a 24 - 48 hour burn they all cleaned up for me. Not all my NOS's have had noise though.
   
  You may hear some hissing, or scratching when turning the volume knob at first. Put the new tubes in and run them for 24 - 48 hours. They should clean right up.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Its misleading. It's per tube on that auction I believe. The Amperex OG has punchier bass, but more narrow of a soundstage. There are better tubes out there for the price listed.


 

 After re-reading the post I saw it was stated right in the link text. Just goes to show how often I'm wrong. A word of advice... never listen to me. End loop.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> No, that was for matched pairs. $80.00 for a matched pair of Orange Globes from 1968.  Granted, they're not NOS, but they're very low hours that test extremely well.  It is in fact a pretty decent price for some really great tubes!
> 
> Here's what Joe, of Joe's Tube Lore fame, had to say about the Orange Globes:
> 
> ...


 
   
  You know. Matched pairing isn't all what its cracked up to be. I'm not hearing a difference between matched pairs and random pulls. Random pulls of dubious quality, while a risk... are generally significantly cheaper.  Just finder a seller that warranty's against DOA. They seem to work just as well - question being - for how long. Great for testing. Got my OGs for $15ea this way.
   
  And this whole time while I keep downplaying my '67 OGs, they keep going back in after testing ever other tube I've tested.
   
  That includes:
  GE's
  Siemens E88CCs
  Siemens PCC189s
  Cryoset 6N23Ps
  Lorenz PCC88s
   
  The Brimmars ECC88s might have something on them, but I'm breaking them in.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





joong said:


> I realized that it was a placebo effect.
> When I once again tried to listen to the tube, it was the same sound quality to my ear still.
> It seems that my Lyr is independent of tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 To me its a dichotomy of both subtle and glaring differences between tubes. In general terms, I find each tube has a slightly higher gain in different segments of the frequency range. This jumpy gain segment tends to settle after a few hours of usage. This is break-in. The total tonal quality changes to where it "settles" in after a hundred or so hours. 
   
  As for placebo, if you took my rig with two sets of new tubes of identical type, and broke one in and not the other. After 50+ break-in hours I could double blind identify them with at least 90% accuracy. Of that I have absolutely no doubt. 
   
  That being said, some tubes seem to benefit from break-in more than others. I think ECC88s more than others, but that could just me be me, since I've more experience with them so far than any other.


----------



## erikfreedom

http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-6922-amp-usa.html
   
  they will arrive in 2 to 4 days. my lyr is bone stock. i have read the entire thread.
   
  this what someone had to say about these tubes and that is why i bought them.
   
  Amperex 6922, PQ, white label, US, pinched waist (shield, gold pins) Yeow! My reference tube. An absolutely gorgeous sounding tube with an unusual physical characteristic. The glass of the tube is actually slightly pinched at the about the point of the upper mica spacer. This reduces the tube’s diameter at that point resulting in a subtle hourglass shape. The reason for this was for the bottle to actually clamp the upper mica space at its rounded corners resulting in a more rigid, less microphonic, structure. The result? A tube that defines the Amperex house sound: Lively, transparent & detailed with extended highs, yet absolutely no grain, with a punchy, dynamic bass. Mids? Lucid and palpable, thank you. The best tube in the 6DJ8 family IMO. The only downside? These guys make the rare Siemens CCas look absolutely common in comparison. Cost? If you have to ask.. If I were hunting for a tube almost as good and much more accessible? I’d hunt down some US white label PQs and live contentedly until the gods smiled on me and I lucked into some of these...
   
   
  this guy has reviewed i bazillions tubes. here is a link to the reviews. very interesting read. this link has already been posted at page 9 of the thread. like i said this thread is very long. took me a while to get the info i needed.
   
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
   
  this is from the schiit audio website faq's
   
*Which tubes does Lyr use, and can you roll ‘em?*
 Lyr uses two 6BZ7 or ECC88 dual triodes, and yes–you can substitute any 6DJ8/6922/ECC88 type tube, including NOS, cryo-treated, voodoo-blessed, hand-assembled by elves, etc. Some of those may sound better than the stock tubes. Some might sound a lot better.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> You know. Matched pairing isn't all what its cracked up to be. I'm not hearing a difference between matched pairs and random pulls. Random pulls of dubious quality, while a risk... are generally significantly cheaper.  Just finder a seller that warranty's against DOA. They seem to work just as well - question being - for how long. Great for testing. Got my OGs for $15ea this way.
> 
> And this whole time while I keep downplaying my '67 OGs, they keep going back in after testing ever other tube I've tested.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't think matching is all that important either, the point I was trying to make is that the $80 was for two tubes, not each.
   
  I like dealing with Mercedesman because he seems to do a better job than most at testing the tubes.  If he says they test strong, I believe him.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





erikfreedom said:


> http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-6922-amp-usa.html
> 
> they will arrive in 2 to 4 days. my lyr is bone stock. i have read the entire thread.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I think you'll love them, I have a couple of pairs of similar tubes, and they sound great.
   
  Just bear in mind, those aren't the pinched-waste tubes that Joe is writing about.  Those tubes, if you were able to find them, would go for a LOT more money than you paid for the tubes you linked to.  Those tubes are characterized by a pinched waste that is easily visible.
   
  Here's a photo:
   

   
   
  But you did very well, I paid about the same for the last pair of USN-CEP 6922s that I picked up.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I think you'll love them, I have a couple of pairs of similar tubes, and they sound great.
> 
> Just bear in mind, those aren't the pinched-waste tubes that Joe is writing about.  Those tubes, if you were able to find them, would go for a LOT more money than you paid for the tubes you linked to.  Those tubes are characterized by a pinched waste that is easily visible.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Ooops, I just re-read the link you posted again, was the price you paid for a pair of tubes or a single tube?


----------



## erikfreedom

I paid for a pair of tubes. but I received a mail from tubedepot that the item is back ordered. i really hope they are going to be able to find a pair.
   
  yeah the tubes the dude spoked about in the review are like impossible to find.


----------



## sceleratus

I am going to refresh my inventory and sell some good stuff.
  I can't list them on Head-Fi because I have to be here for 30 days.
  I'll put them on eBay.  I have 100% rating on 180 feedback left.
   
  Not sure if I'm breaking a rule by making this post, consequently I won't post prices.
  It's just a post saying I'm going to sell something.
   
  I'm selling my:
   
  1960 Amperex USN 6922 "D" getter. Rare
  Purchased from mercedesman  Nov 28, 2012 NOS.
  That's 144 days.  If I listened 2 hrs every day that's 300 hours.
  Estimated hours 100
   
  Also from mercedesman Nov 24
  1965 USN-CEP 6922 NOS / NIB
  Estimated hours 100
   
  Also from mercedesman Nov 18
  1969 Orange Globe Dimple Matched 120/120
  Estimated hours 100
   
  RCA Clear Top 6FQ7/6CG7.  Hand-me-downs
  Date Unknown
  Hours unknown. Original Box.
   
  I'm figuring out the price.
  Looking at these on eBay.


----------



## gerald410

These just came in [size=small]AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1959 D GETTER MATCHED PAIR[/size]   Don't sound bad will continue burn in to see what happens. Signing out


----------



## ilikepooters

More tubes turned up today.
   
  Raytheon 6922 and Brimar 6BQ7A.
   
  Raytheon are very U shaped but really detailed, absolutely massive sub-bass and good width and depth, shame about the recessed mids. Sound like Voskhod 6N1P's but with better soundstage and more sub-bass impact. The mid-bass is underwhelming, i feel it's recessed here all the way through the mids, not picking up again until the highs. Not really to my liking so i've put them back on ebay, hopefully turn some profit to buy better tubes.
   
  Brimars are a different kettle of fish, they are a warm tube but the emphasis is on the mid-upper bass and the mids, sub bass is a tad lacking, treble is a tad harsh but hopefully will settle down with burn in, i look forward to putting some hours on these tubes. Average amount of width and depth. Not quite as detailed as i'd like.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> These just came in [size=small]AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1959 D GETTER MATCHED PAIR[/size]   Don't sound bad will continue burn in to see what happens. Signing out


 
   
   
  Schweet!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> More tubes turned up today.
> 
> Raytheon 6922 and Brimar 6BQ7A.
> 
> ...


 
  How long did you burn in the Raytheons?  Maybe they'll come around...


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> How long did you burn in the Raytheons?  Maybe they'll come around...


 
   
  Bought them used, so probably had plenty of use.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Bought them used, so probably had plenty of use.


 
   
   
  Yeah.  I guess they can't all be gems.


----------



## nelamvr6

OK, I've got at least 20 hours on these Bugle Boy 6DJ8s, and I'm ready to make a pronouncement:  these are absolutely marvelous!
  
  All of the following comments are in comparison to the Amperex USN-CEP 6922s, my previous favorite tube.  The USNs had amazing clarity and detail, they had an almost solid state quality.  Really clean solid state at that.  The detail and presence was amazing.
   
  The Bugle Boys  are weightier in the bass.  I think the bass extension is about the same, but the Bugle Boys are punchier.  The bass is very taut and nimble.  Bass heads will definitely prefer the Bugle Boys.
   
  The Bugle Boys do sacrifice just a tad of the USNs detail and sparkle in the treble, but not much.  The highs seem a bit more refined in the Bugle Boys, but I definitely would not call the highs recessed.  But I think treble heads would prefer the USNs.
   
  But the mids are where the magic is with the Bugle Boys.  The mids are sweeter, more fluid, without ever sounding slow or overly romantic.  This, I think, is the tube magic I've always read about, the thing that made me want to try tubes!  When I listen to female vocals... oh my gawd!  Natalie Merchant never sounded so good! And the sound is really very coherent, not at all u shaped, the mids are a bit forward, but not in your face.
   
  Highly recommended!  I officially have a new favorite!  At least until the Orange Globes get here...
  
  I have some 1959 "Small Man" Bugle Boys on the way, I can't wait to try them!  These tubes are definitely winners!


----------



## GrindingThud

What manufacturer are they (Amperex, Sylvania, Philips...)?


ilikepooters said:


> More tubes turned up today.
> 
> Raytheon 6922
> 
> Raytheon are very U shaped but really detailed, absolutely massive sub-bass and good width and depth, shame about the recessed mids. Sound like Voskhod 6N1P's but with better soundstage and more sub-bass impact. The mid-bass is underwhelming, i feel it's recessed here all the way through the mids, not picking up again until the highs. Not really to my liking so i've put them back on ebay, hopefully turn some profit to buy better tubes.


----------



## Junior mints

Quick question. How long would you all say it takes to break in the Lyr? I've seen it mentioned a few times. And for tubes how does that work? Just leave the Lyr on or do I need music pumping through it? Thanks!!


----------



## sceleratus

My OG's
   
   
  Edit:   Gone


----------



## sceleratus

Just came in from Deutschland:
   
  Guess What?
   
  ding ding ding ding "Winner winner, chicken diner !!!"
  Very musical with a huge soundstage.
  Cranking some Traffic ..... Dear Mr Fantasy... just took me away.
   
   

   
  With a name like "Valvo" you knew I'd buy them.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> What manufacturer are they (Amperex, Sylvania, Philips...)?


 
   
  Manufactured by Raytheon themselves i believe.
   
  This one is identical to the tubes i have: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/One-1966-Raytheon-JRP-6922-E88CC-tube-New-Old-Stock-New-Box-/271125420432?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f20559990
   
  Don't know if the box or codes will tell you anything.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Manufactured by Raytheon themselves i believe.
> 
> This one is identical to the tubes i have: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/One-1966-Raytheon-JRP-6922-E88CC-tube-New-Old-Stock-New-Box-/271125420432?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f20559990
> 
> Don't know if the box or codes will tell you anything.


 
  It says Feb. 1966
  They are "JAN 6922"  JAN stands for "Joint Army Navy"
  The rest is most likely Government Part Numbers.
   
  It's the real deal.  Good glass.
  Now you need the other one..   Sorry that was an example... you have both.
  So that one is 1966.
  Probably made by Philips for Raytheon.
  Most Philips 6922 JAN or USN-CEP were Amperex label made in New York.
  Look for a "Star"  That's the NY plant
  Followed by a single digit.  Year of manufacture 
  Followed my a letter.  Code for month "A" being January.
  Followed by a letter 1-5  for the Week they were made.
  The "7L" is just another code meaning 6922 or E88CC
   
  Like this:
   

   
  Here is a similar box:


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> It says Feb. 1966
> They are "JAN 6922"  JAN stands for "Joint Army Navy"
> The rest is most likely Government Part Numbers.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Can't see any codes anywhere on the glass, must have rubbed off or there just wasn't any, looks like one tube has a 6 or a 9 stamped on the bottom, other tube the stamp isn't clear on the bottom.
   
  Micas are different to those Amperexes, don't have the crescents cut out, and top mica has little points sticking out, bottom mica is perfectly round.
   
  *EDIT* think they might be same as these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6922-ECC88-6DJ8-PHILIPS-ECG-GREEN-NEW-TUBE-VALVE-PAIR-/270387338137?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3ef4575b99
   
  Micas look exactly like that.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Can't see any codes anywhere on the glass, must have rubbed off or there just wasn't any, looks like one tube has a 6 or a 9 stamped on the bottom, other tube the stamp isn't clear on the bottom.
> 
> Micas are different to those Amperexes, don't have the crescents cut out, and top mica has little points sticking out, bottom mica is perfectly round.
> 
> ...


 
  Look at the bottom of the box.
  Last Line:
  "3/86"
   
  Bottom line on my box:
  "5/65"
   
  Not to say those greenies aren't good tubes.
  They should also have gold pins if they are 6922's
  Unless they stopped using them... later
   
  Check Tubemongers photo library.  Might help
   
Here's the 6922 section
   
  EDIT:  Those codes are much more durable than the label.


----------



## claud W

Time to roll in some new tubes--some unobtainium ones.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





claud w said:


> Time to roll in some new tubes--some unobtainium ones.


 
   
  nice!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  i'm looking for something similar at the moment.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





claud w said:


> Time to roll in some new tubes--some unobtainium ones.


 
  Those are most definitely in the Mac-Daddy category.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





claud w said:


> Time to roll in some new tubes--some unobtainium ones.


 
   
   
  Sweet!  Be sure to let us know what you think...


----------



## claud W

So far they are the detail retreival kings, but smooth. I got to try "Trinity Sessions" to see how the bass and sylibants are.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





claud w said:


> So far they are the detail retreival kings, but smooth. I got to try "Trinity Sessions" to see how the bass and sylibants are.


 
   
   
  That would be my concern.  I've heard a lot about the detail and presence of those tubes, but everyone says the bass extension is a tad light...


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> That would be my concern.  I've heard a lot about the detail and presence of those tubes, but everyone says the bass extension is a tad light...


 
  I think you are either Dutch or German
  not both
   
  I like detailed but.... rounded.  If that makes sense.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I think you are either Dutch or German
> not both
> 
> I like detailed but.... rounded.  If that makes sense.


 
   
   
  Ahh...  the eternal struggle!  It's a balancing act, to be sure.  You may be many years searching for that perfect combination.


----------



## Joong

I returned those big names and am now listening to Bugle boy 6dj8 ( tin pins) in the right side and CV2492 KE/D (gold pins) marks on it in the left side.
  This hetero pair ( total cost is 50USD) is very sweet from the start.
   
  I do not know CV2492 with arrow mark and KD(E?)/D.
   
  I realize that combination of different pair is also usable and sweet in sound.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





joong said:


> I returned those big names and am now listening to Bugle boy 6dj8 ( tin pins) in the right side and CV2492 KE/D (gold pins) marks on it in the left side.
> This hetero pair ( total cost is 50USD) is very sweet from the start.
> 
> I do not know CV2492 with arrow mark and KD(E?)/D.
> ...


 
  Only thing that matters is that you enjoy them.
   
  Naturally I had to look at he the valve specifications.
  The circuits are identical except the 6DJ8 draws .065mA more heater current.
  Can't imagine that's a factor.
   
  Joong,
  If you never tried this, I'd never know.


----------



## toschek

Those Telefunken CCa tubes look A+. My Tele 6922s finally passed the burn in hump and now are amazing. Its not listener burn in either, all I did was play pink/white/brown noise on them through my headphones for 50 hours while I'm away for work during the day over a couple of weeks. I didn't even listen through them when I got home over that time, I'd usually swap out for the 7308s or Lorenz. Today I finally listened and these are NOT the same tubes anymore. They have become weaponized awesome. Listened to Sibelius Symphony #2 and I was just overwhelmed by the detail retrieval, dynamics and soundstage on them. Love these tubes. I am finally convinced that they were worth the money.


----------



## toschek

The bass on the Tele 6922s is anything but light. Its more of a quality/quantity thing. Less crappy, muddy, sloppy, undefined bass is not a bad thing. I'm sure the same goes for the CCa tubes, only more so.


----------



## claud W

Quote: 





toschek said:


> The bass on the Tele 6922s is anything but light. Its more of a quality/quantity thing. Less crappy, muddy, sloppy, undefined bass is not a bad thing. I'm sure the same goes for the CCa tubes, only more so.


 
  Yes!!!! Cowboy Junkies never sounded so good. Bass and LOTS of air are there and syabants are the least notable of all tubes so far. Depending on what you are looking for this is the best tube for Lyr.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Those Telefunken CCa tubes look A+. My Tele 6922s finally passed the burn in hump and now are amazing. Its not listener burn in either, all I did was play pink/white/brown noise on them through my headphones for 50 hours while I'm away for work during the day over a couple of weeks. I didn't even listen through them when I got home over that time, I'd usually swap out for the 7308s or Lorenz. Today I finally listened and these are NOT the same tubes anymore. They have become weaponized awesome. Listened to Sibelius Symphony #2 and I was just overwhelmed by the detail retrieval, dynamics and soundstage on them. Love these tubes. I am finally convinced that they were worth the money.


 

 Good to see you're sticking around now that your a one of those snobby Cary owners. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  With having the office to myself, I've had my rig at work for this week again. I do the same. I have learned that its a good idea to use crappy HPs for overnight burns. My crappy headphones of choice are the  Phillips | O'neill SHO9560. I used to use my HD800s, while they were breaking in.  However there's a bit of a DC pulse on the LYR on power down. Enough to ruin a pair of headphones some say.  I always remove the headphones with the volume pot down all the way and then disconnect before switching off.  This of course doesn't happen during power failures or brownouts. So, its best to use crappy headphones for break-in....
   
  These Brimar ECC88s are coming into their own. Previously the vocals/mids were unbearably forwared/screechy until today. I would have to estimate only 40hrs on them, which is making all the difference in the world. I can actually listen to them today. Their quite nice in fact. Giving the OGs a run for their money in fact.


----------



## gerald410

Next set of tubes incoming AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1961 LARGE O GET... and AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1968 MATCHED... the Globes will get here first


----------



## GrindingThud

Doh.....just missed these. Someone snarfed them out from under me..... Hopefully a fellow headfier that will enjoy them. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-GENALEX-Blue-Label-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-Gold-Pin-Tested-Matched-Pair-Tubes-/330909943911?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&nma=true&si=CeMEQSkp2XAG77uV1s3EhV4%252FQO8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Doh.....just missed these. Someone snarfed them out from under me..... Hopefully a fellow headfier that will enjoy them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Why they have to destroy perfectly good Mullard labels with those hideous blue Genalex ones is beyond me.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Next set of tubes incoming AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1961 LARGE O GET... and AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1968 MATCHED... the Globes will get here first


 
   
   
  Good choice!  I know you'll love 'em!


----------



## sceleratus

Hi,
  I'm selling my USN-CEP's
  They're listed for $270
  I have a "Make Offer"
  If a roller wants them enter $200.
   
USN-CEP


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Hi,
> I'm selling my USN-CEP's
> They're listed for $270
> I have a "Make Offer"
> ...


 
   
   
  Those are awesome tubes!  If I didn't already have two pairs I would grab them in a NY minute!


----------



## nelamvr6

Now THIS guy is a SERIOUS tube roller!


----------



## HPiper

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Now THIS guy is a SERIOUS tube roller!


 

 That guy is standing in front of the very first PC...wondering where the cdrom is...


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hpiper said:


> That guy is standing in front of the very first PC...wondering where the cdrom is...


 
   
  That would be the 5 1/4" floppy he's looking for.


----------



## sceleratus

Not exactly the Eniac, but it does have one valve.
  Rev 1 of the Valve Tester front panel.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Not exactly the Eniac, but it does have one valve.
> Rev 1 of the Valve front Tester panel.


 
   
   
  Awesome!  I'm looking forward to seeing the finished project!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nelamvr6 said:


> Those are awesome tubes!  If I didn't already have two pairs I would grab them in a NY minute!




+1 these are my favorite Amperex tubes, but I too already have 2 sets. Worth every penny!


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> +1 these are my favorite Amperex tubes, but I too already have 2 sets. Worth every penny!


 
  groan too rich for my blood


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> groan too rich for my blood


 
   
   
  Don't lose hope, there are still really good tubes out there that don't break the bank.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> That would be the 5 1/4" floppy he's looking for.


 
   
   





   
  Hey, I'm old enough to remember disk drives like this:
   

   
   
  Here's the first computer I ever worked on, an AN/UYK-20:


----------



## Happy Camper

My high school trip to a business was to see a IBM cardstack computer. You programmed the cards with punchouts and ran it through the stacker.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Don't lose hope, there are still really good tubes out there that don't break the bank.


 
  Thx for the encouragement, I need to pause anyway none of my tube are close to being burned in!!!


----------



## PolkManiac

I don't want to come in here like the typical nOOb and ask "what's the best tube for the Lyr", but that's kinda what I'm after.  I've heard great things about the Telefunken 6922 and Amperex PQ White label, any others that really stand out?  What about the Gold Lion tubes, those seems to get mixed reviews but are more attainable.
   
  Is there a compiled list in here somewhere or elsewhere that can get me started?  Reading thru 450 pages will take days, I'm looking to shave some time off that.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Thx for the encouragement, I need to pause anyway none of my tube are close to being burned in!!!


 
  Hang in there....
   
  I admire the patience of many of the collectors on the thread.
  I wasn't one of those.  I have zero patience. I no sooner got OG's than I ordered something else.
  But I'm fortunate that I can do that.
   
  Ya don't need to pounce on everything that get's mentioned.  Including my USN-CEP's
  Savor those first purchases.  Figure out what you'd like and find a bargin.  Again, I say this but I don't do it,
  because I can't.  I get all freaky and think I'll never see those tubes again.... at any price.  Wrong, they'll show up.
  Real collectors have patience.  They are Long Term.
   
   There's a lot of great sounding glass in a lot of different price ranges.
  I'm rotating to try something different maybe German stuff.  Right now I'm in love with E188CC's
  BTW to repete myself.   There some nice ones in the $120-$170 range and they have a lot of the characteristics
  of the USN-CEP.  Gold pins, Large "O" getter, mid 60's.  They're just not New York.
   
  It may sound stupid for a guy selling USN-CEP to say this, but If I liked them better than my $150 RTC's.  I wouldn't sell them.
  Again, personal taste.  So I have a couple different versions of the same thing coming in to compare.  All around $170
  I got some Valvo's in last week.  Same construction.  I think they have an awesome soundstage, very musical.
   
  I love my $60 Lorenz  (More than OG's)  but these RTC's are superb.  Worth ever penny.
   
  I seem to always play just one or two sets, the others just collect dust.  
  SO I'm shaking it up to find the next 2 or 3 types I like.
   
  It's also fun to read about all the experimental rolling that's going on.
   
  Roll on.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





polkmaniac said:


> I don't want to come in here like the typical nOOb and ask "what's the best tube for the Lyr", but that's kinda what I'm after.  I've heard great things about the Telefunken 6922 and Amperex PQ White label, any others that really stand out?  What about the Gold Lion tubes, those seems to get mixed reviews but are more attainable.
> 
> Is there a compiled list in here somewhere or elsewhere that can get me started?  Reading thru 450 pages will take days, I'm looking to shave some time off that.


 
  I just posted above...then read your.
  Hey, in my book it's ok to ask.  You've got your Lyr and you want to reach nirvana ASAP.
  The consensus first vintage set would be Amperex Orange Globes 1960's.   I like them before 69' with an "o" getter rather than the dimple disk.
  Those are around $70 - $100  It's a good place to start and they sound great.
   
  Many folks go to  "mercedesman" on eBay because he has a great reputation and backs up his product.  Which is amazing since the product is 50 years old.
TUBEHUNTER


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Hey, I'm old enough to remember disk drives like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Looks like a DEC
   
  Mine was a PDP-11


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Hang in there....
> 
> I admire the patience of many of the collectors on the thread.
> I wasn't one of those.  I have zero patience. I no sooner got OG's than I ordered something else.
> ...


 
  Thx for the sage advise I love and hate this thread lol. I have 5 pairs with 2 more on the way. Its time to just settle back and see whats what.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Good to see you're sticking around now that your a one of those snobby Cary owners.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hahaha, I wouldn't go anywhere else.  Anyway, 6922 is a 6922 and we all bleed red.  I miss my Lyr sometimes though, my Bifrost is lonely.  I wish Schiit would get off the pot already and release the statement DAC.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Thx for the sage advise I love and hate this thread lol. I have 5 pairs with 2 more on the way. Its time to just settle back and see whats what.


 
  I think we have the same MO.
  Zero patience.
   
  I'm down to a handful with more inbound....
  All the same variant. 
   
  If I get 2-3 sets in the same ballpark, I'm done because I love they way these sound.


----------



## Timodeus

joong said:


> I returned those big names and am now listening to Bugle boy 6dj8 ( tin pins) in the right side and CV2492 KE/D (gold pins) marks on it in the left side.
> This hetero pair ( total cost is 50USD) is very sweet from the start.
> 
> I do not know CV2492 with arrow mark and KD(E?)/D.
> ...





Great idea! So if you have 5 sorts of tubes this will multiply the listening possibilities by.........???
Huuuu. Many!!!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Hang in there....
> 
> I admire the patience of many of the collectors on the thread.
> I wasn't one of those.  I have zero patience. I no sooner got OG's than I ordered something else.
> ...


 
  +1  Well said.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





polkmaniac said:


> I don't want to come in here like the typical nOOb and ask "what's the best tube for the Lyr", but that's kinda what I'm after.  I've heard great things about the Telefunken 6922 and Amperex PQ White label, any others that really stand out?  What about the Gold Lion tubes, those seems to get mixed reviews but are more attainable.
> 
> Is there a compiled list in here somewhere or elsewhere that can get me started?  Reading thru 450 pages will take days, I'm looking to shave some time off that.


 
   
   
  This is a good piece of literature, should be required reading before entering this thread:
   
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
   
  Read both parts.
   
  This is by no means the only source of info, but it's easy to post a link to.
   
  This thread that you're in is also a wealth of information, any amount of it that you can manage to read will add to your knowledge.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Looks like a DEC
> 
> Mine was a PDP-11


 
  That's actually built by Sperry Univac.  It was a Navy computer.


----------



## claud W

Switched to Senn HD600s last night from my 702s. Played "Love Over Gold" CD and there is good bass. The Tells seem to have it all.


----------



## ilikepooters

Mullard 6BQ7A arrived today.
   
  Only problem is i don't think these are Mullard.
   
  I can see the Mullard label has been printed over a label that says Taiwan R.O.C 6BZ7
   
  But the Mullard label says "Made in Great Britain" can't both be right.
   
  That aside these tubes do sound quite nice, excellent bass and mids, smooth layed back treble, soundstage is quite intimate though, not very expansive.
  Will give them more hours of burn-in.


----------



## solblack

I just order shiit lyra can't wait for it to come.
  June i should have my Sennheiser HD 800.
  I won't be eating that month lol
  I heard that that to bring out the best in the amp you have to buy these tubes:
  Telefunken E288CC, Amperex CEP USN 6922, and Lorenz PCC88(but only if it's one that was made in Stuttgart Germany).


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





hpiper said:


> That guy is standing in front of the very first PC...wondering where the cdrom is...


 

 I've never seen ENIAC before. Cooooool.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Here's the first computer I ever worked on, an AN/UYK-20:


 
   
  ... AND... it was convenient place to store your beer!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> ... AND... it was convenient place to store your beer!


 
   




   
  Actually, it got pretty warm as I recall...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





solblack said:


> I just order shiit lyra can't wait for it to come.
> June i should have my Sennheiser HD 800.
> I won't be eating that month lol
> I heard that that to bring out the best in the amp you have to buy these tubes:
> Telefunken E288CC, Amperex CEP USN 6922, and Lorenz PCC88(but only if it's one that was made in Stuttgart Germany).


 
   
   
  Well...  those are just a few of the tubes that will sound great, there are many others.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Next set of tubes incoming AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1961 LARGE O GET...


 
   
  I went for a pair of these as well, and this may be the extent of my tube collection for now. I actually like the JJ's that came with my Lyr.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Mullard 6BQ7A arrived today.
> 
> Only problem is i don't think these are Mullard.
> 
> I can see the Mullard label has been printed over a label that says Taiwan R.O.C 6BZ7


 
   
  I did a lot of tube rolling about 8 years ago for my hi fi and at that time it was rare to see genuine better tubes like Telefunken etc. with clear silk screens and clean boxes for sale. Even at that time any tube that was in real NOS condition was suspect. So now I am back on Ebay looking for tubes and I am blown away at all the perfect condition tubes and I have a lot of doubt about most of them.
   
  Saw this gem last night: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MULLARD-REISSUE-12AX7-ECC83-Tested-/390563895192?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5aef6c1798&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_923


----------



## Junior mints

Tossed in the 1968 Orange Globes a little bit ago and i must say they are outstanding! All my needs are met and I feel as if the LCDs are finally getting justice! Added more on the lower end, but my favorite part is the detail and slightly larger soundstage over the stock Lyr GEs.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> Tossed in the 1968 Orange Globes a little bit ago and i must say they are outstanding! All my needs are met and I feel as if the LCDs are finally getting justice! Added more on the lower end, but my favorite part is the detail and slightly larger soundstage over the stock Lyr GEs.


 
  Over and over....
  Those are the best bang for the buck valves.
  The safe bet.


----------



## ilikepooters

Tryed my fake Mullard 6BQ7A's tonight, went to work earlier and left them burning in with pink noise, they've only had about 9-10 hours but the difference is massive.
   
  Bass still has impact but has tightened up considerably, mids have relaxed a little but not majorly, treble is very airy and has smoothed out, soundstage is massive, it's almost like a different tube to what i heard when i first rolled them in.
   
  Who would have thought a relabeled fake would be the most exciting tube i've ever heard? These are 110% keepers, just hope the sound doesn't change too much with further burn in.
   
  On another note i've ordered some Tungsram E80CC's based on this impression: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/2/25072.html
  Sounds like a very nice tube, can't wait to roll them in, cheap too: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0&_nkw=tungsram+e80cc&_sacat=0&_from=R40
  I'll post my impressions when i receive them.


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





timodeus said:


> Great idea! So if you have 5 sorts of tubes this will multiply the listening possibilities by.........???
> Huuuu. Many!!!


 
  The number of combination = 5!/(2!x3!)=10.
  If I differentiate the left and right side, then the number of choices = 20.
  Very good number.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Actually BB with D getter, and CV2492 KD/D what is it?
  The sound is the best among what I have.


----------



## sceleratus

The 70' Mullard / RTC E188CC's arrived today from Lithuania.
  My expectations were very low.
   
  And I was not disappointed. They are very pedestrian, unremarkable.
  Not anywhere close to my 65' RTC's.  They lasted one song and I put the Valvo E188CC's
  back in to see if I was correct.  I was correct.
   
  They look like they were just spit out of the line, will burn in help?  I am not a patient person.
   
  The Valvo's were a pleasant surprise.  My original "epic" RTC's are coming back from loan so I'm looking forward to head-to-head comparison with the Valvo.
   
  I also have these RTC's on the way.  I have high expectations for this pair but there is one difference.  My first pair say "7612" on the front.  All the others I've found say 7308 or 6922.
   
   I have not been able to find "7612" anywhere.
   My books have the designation "VR", E188CC, 7308 and 6922 as the same thing. 7612 is not in the book.
   
   

   
  Below are the RTC's en route.  I tried to enhance the photo in the listing.
  I looks like 6922


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *sceleratus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My books have the designation "VR", E188CC, 7308 and 6922 as the same thing. 7612 is not in the book.


 
   
  E188CC = 7308 and E88CC = 6922 but the "7612" is, I think, a date.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oskari said:


> E188CC = 7308 and E88CC = 6922 but the "7612" is, I think, a date.


 
  It is very strange.
  Probably not a date because they are etched with "delta" 5 D 2
  Netherlands, 1965, April, 2nd week.
   
  EDIT:   You are indeed correct.  VR = E188CC and 7308.
  It's the "7L" that is the E88CC and the 6922.
  My mistake


----------



## sceleratus

Oskari,
   
  That fact leads to another question.
   
  I enhanced the image from the listing.
  If you blow it up a bit on your screen it looks, to me, like "22" below the large E188CC.
   
  As such I was thinking it's a 6922.
   
  Then you pointed out (correctly) the E88CC = 6922 and E188CC = 7308
   
  Thus it's doubtful it will say 6922 unless it's not genuine.
  The dealer is in France.  He looks very very reputable a long time seller of vintage radios and parts.
  In short.  An old guy with a passion for vintage gear.  (my guess)
   
  Hope to have them in a week or two so I can examine them...... and listen.


----------



## nelamvr6

I'm rocking Orange Globes tonight!


----------



## Oskari

I think that 7612 is the date when the RTC label was printed. It would make more sense if the production took place in 1975, though.
   
  Edit:
   
  If you Google search for images of RTC E188CC, you'll see that they usually have this code which would seem to fit the YYWW pattern. This can also explain the "22".
   
  Here's "7822": http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Amperex+Philips+E188CC+1970s+Halo+Getter+RTC+Label+Front+-+Heerlen+Holland.jpg.html


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I'm rocking Orange Globes tonight!


 
  Go on with your bad self lol


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Go on with your bad self lol


----------



## nelamvr6




----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


>


 
  They look awesome


----------



## nelamvr6

That's just a photo I googled, as a matter of fact I think it was taken by a fellow Head-Fier...
   
  But they do look awesome, don't they?  They sound even better!


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> That's just a photo I googled, as a matter of fact I think it was taken by a fellow Head-Fier...
> 
> But they do look awesome, don't they?  They sound even better!


 
  I can't wait for mine!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> I can't wait for mine!


 
  I'm surprised at how good these sound without any burn-in!  Of course, they were used, not NOS, so they may already have a few hours on them.  But they definitely sound awesome!


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I'm surprised at how good these sound without any burn-in!  Of course, they were used, not NOS, so they may already have a few hours on them.  But they definitely sound awesome!


 
  Nice hopefully there is still room for improvement in them! Just checked mine are Nos


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oskari said:


> I think that 7612 is the date when the RTC label was printed. It would make more sense if the production took place in 1975, though.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


 
  The the inbound RTC's and the 7822 from Tubemonger looks like a match.  Thank you.
   
  However the RTC's I have with 7612 in no way conform to Philips Valve Codes and what is etched.
  Note the format of the date codes and the construction of the 1965 USN-CEP and the RTC "7612" E188CC valve match
   
  Not that it matters, they sound exquisite.


----------



## ilikepooters

Pairs of Brimar 6BQ7A are back on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-NIB-Pair-Brimar-6BQ7A-Box-Plate-Vacuum-Tubes-/161011320189?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item257d05c57d
   
  I've burned mine in for 12 hours or so and already sound fantastic. Really recommend these if you're a bass head. Sounded a bit congested and muddy before burn-in and treble was harsh, i can only imagine these will get even better as time goes on.
   
  Flavour: Bass is tight and impactful, lows/mids in general have a nice gravel like quality to them, rock guitars sound amazing, Mids don't seem recessed, treble is very smooth and detailed, soundstage has good width and depth, not quite expansive but certainly above average.
   
  I think these tubes are fantastic for the price, worth rolling in if you haven't already got plenty of the "popular" warm tubes.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> That's just a photo I googled, as a matter of fact I think it was taken by a fellow Head-Fier...
> 
> But they do look awesome, don't they?  They sound even better!


 
  They do sound fantastic!  The only tubes I find better are these:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221216285416?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  I need to A/B these against the Lorenz 3-mica's that I have but I may end up selling some tubes soon (i.e. Lorenz SEL PCC88s and some Amperex JAN 7308s)...maybe...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> They do sound fantastic!  The only tubes I find better are these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221216285416?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> ...


 

 when are you going sell that tube...just a curiousity.


----------



## HK_sends

Which ones?  Not the Orange Globes, Lorenz 3-mica, or Bugle Boy 1959 D-Getters...those are keepers.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll let you folks know when I post the tubes up for sale.  Probably sometime tomorrow or Monday (if I can).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Which ones?  Not the Orange Globes, Lorenz 3-mica, or Bugle Boy 1959 D-Getters...those are keepers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 WOOO!! I was hoping Lorenz 3-mica.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  you teaser


----------



## sceleratus

Anybody listen to a Crackhead?
   
  It's a kit and I'm thinking about building one.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oskari said:


> I think that 7612 is the date when the RTC label was printed. It would make more sense if the production took place in 1975, though.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


 
  It is indeed a date.
  I wrote to  Brent Jessee , and asked about the screen printed numbers.  He said it is the date the valve was screen printed.  The etched code is the date of mfg.  He also said that O getters were discontinued in 1969.  Here is a picture from Tubemonger of an E88CC RTC he's doesn't say it was made in 1983.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Anybody listen to a Crackhead?
> 
> It's a kit and I'm thinking about building one.


 
  I've never heard one, but I've read good reviews.  I've been curious about that one for quite a while...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I've never heard one, but I've read good reviews.  I've been curious about that one for quite a while...


 
  +1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> They do sound fantastic!  The only tubes I find better are these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221216285416?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Have you ever heard any of the "Small Man" Bugle Boys?  I have a pair on the way, I confess I'm really curious.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I'm surprised at how good these sound without any burn-in!  Of course, they were used, not NOS, so they may already have a few hours on them.  But they definitely sound awesome!


 
   
  Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Nice hopefully there is still room for improvement in them! Just checked mine are Nos


 
   
   
  Oh...    my...    gawd!  If these get any better through burn in  I won't be able to ever roll them out of my amp!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  These Orange Globes are sounding AMAZING!!!
   
   
  (BTW, we definitely need an Audeze smilie!)


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I've never heard one, but I've read good reviews.  I've been curious about that one for quite a while...


 
  I think I'm going to give one a try.
  It looks dopey and it's 100% valve.
   
  About sums me up.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I think I'm going to give one a try.
> It looks dopey and it's 100% valve.
> 
> About sums me up.


 
   
   
  the kits look pretty well laid out, you should be able to make a decent go of it.  Does the kit come with the base, ore do you have to provide that?


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Oh...    my...    gawd!  If these get any better through burn in  I won't be able to ever roll them out of my amp!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My doggone Orange Globes were "missent" damnit! should be here on Monday.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> My doggone Orange Globes were "missent" damnit! should be here on Monday.


 
   
   




   
  At least they're worth the wait...


----------



## nelamvr6

A lot of people wax enthusiastic about female vocals when a tube has good mid range.  We sometimes forget that a lot of the electric guitar's sound is in the mid range.  Right now Porcupine Tree is sounding AMAZING!!!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> the kits look pretty well laid out, you should be able to make a decent go of it.  Does the kit come with the base, ore do you have to provide that?


 
  It has everything.  Not sure about the valves...
  It looks like a very simple kit.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> It has everything.  Not sure about the valves...
> It looks like a very simple kit.


 
   
   
  This could be very cool!


----------



## nelamvr6

By any chance can the Crackhead use the 6DJ8 family of tubes?


----------



## GrindingThud

Not out of the box....but one can drop most any driver design into it during the build. 



nelamvr6 said:


> By any chance can the Crackhead use the 6DJ8 family of tubes?


----------



## nelamvr6

Pretty cool!
   
  I would be tempted to try building one, but right now I'm saving up for one of these:


----------



## gmahler2u

Primaluna amp.  only from upscale.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Primaluna amp.  only from upscale.


 
  Or, directly from Primaluna...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Have you ever heard any of the "Small Man" Bugle Boys?  I have a pair on the way, I confess I'm really curious.


 
  I saw them but haven't heard them.  From what I hear (so to speak), they are supposed to be excellent tubes.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I saw them but haven't heard them.  From what I hear (so to speak), they are supposed to be excellent tubes.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  I'm finding it difficult to find any info online about these variants...


----------



## GrindingThud

Like this little guy on the left?:



nelamvr6 said:


> I'm finding it difficult to find any info online about these variants...


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Or, directly from Primaluna...


 

 what kind of amp are you getting?  are you add speaker?


----------



## gmahler2u

oppsi....I meant Preamp and power amp or integrate amp?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Or, directly from Primaluna...


 

 why Primaluna? how about Cary? well cary is little more expensive.


----------



## toschek

The crack stuff looks like it could be fun.  I was looking at the 2a3/stereomour version which can be adapted for headphones (check the forums). I would check that one out Sceleratus, the 45 adaptation plus headphone mod might be a challenge but bound to be the best sounding rig possible.  The 45 sounds amazing through speakers, I bet headphones would be marvelous.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Like this little guy on the left?:


 
   
   
  Exactly!  That's the one!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> what kind of amp are you getting?  are you add speaker?


 
  I'm going with the Dialogue Premium Integrated.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> why Primaluna? how about Cary? well cary is little more expensive.


 
   
  Cary makes some really nice stuff too!
   
  Unfortunately it's not too easy to audition this stuff personally anymore.  
   
  I've been able to hear some Primaluna stuff, so that's the way I'm going.  Plus, as you mentioned, Primaluna amps are a bit cheaper.


----------



## tuna47

I am new to tubes what one tube would you get as an upgrade to stock for around $50 I need help


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I am new to tubes what one tube would you get as an upgrade to stock for around $50 I need help


 
   
   
  You looking to spend $50 a piece or $50 for the pair?


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You looking to spend $50 a piece or $50 for the pair?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





toschek said:


> The crack stuff looks like it could be fun.  I was looking at the 2a3/stereomour version which can be adapted for headphones (check the forums). I would check that one out Sceleratus, the 45 adaptation plus headphone mod might be a challenge but bound to be the best sounding rig possible.  The 45 sounds amazing through speakers, I bet headphones would be marvelous.


 
  It'll be hard to get buy-in from management on that.


----------



## tuna47

For the pair


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> For the pair


 
   
  Depends what kind of sound you're looking for, also which stock tubes do you have? I think Schiit use 3 different tubes, 6N1P-VI (Bassy), G.E 6BZ7 (Neutral) and JJ E88CC (Bright, thin)


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Cary makes some really nice stuff too!
> 
> Unfortunately it's not too easy to audition this stuff personally anymore.
> 
> I've been able to hear some Primaluna stuff, so that's the way I'm going.  Plus, as you mentioned, Primaluna amps are a bit cheaper.


 

 good deal!


----------



## tuna47

Getting GE listen to jazz some r&b and blues


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Getting GE listen to jazz some r&b and blues


 
   
   
  The stock GEs are really not bad tubes.  Just be sure to give them time to burn in.  If you look around you can get some RCA 6BZ7s that are really inexpensive and a little better than the GEs.  
   
  Here's an eBay listing for 5 of them for $16:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-VacuumTubes-6BQ7A-6BZ7-6BS8-RCA-5-pieces-NOS-NIB-/130772580710?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e72a73966


----------



## toschek

Anyone tried Sylvania 6BZ7/6BQ7A tubes? Sylvania made some of the best 6SN7 tubes so maybe they did well with these too?

They seem to be very cheap too.


----------



## toschek

I found a motherlode of free tube related literature tonight for anyone interested.
   
http://www.tubebooks.org/
   
  I feel like I'm going to be spending the next couple of weeks with this page - http://www.tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm.


----------



## tuna47

Thanks for the help


----------



## jellofund

So much for holding off and letting the bank balance recover before buying some more tubes for my new Lyr.....just had an offer accepted on a pair of 1961 Bugle Boys! Thanks again for the recommendation nelamvr6 - looking forward to trying them out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I was warned not to enter this thread. I can see why some of the guys said it was a slippery slope as I've only gone and bought a pair of the Brimar 6BQ7A ilikepooters mentioned too. Due to the low value they should be customs friendly and they sounded interesting, so I figured why not?
   
  The mad thing is I've only used the stock GE's for about 12 hours and I already have 2 more sets in the post.....the GE's actually sound pretty good to my ears once they've warmed up. Out of interest how much burn in time do they usually need before they're at their best?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> So much for holding off and letting the bank balance recover before buying some more tubes for my new Lyr.....just had an offer accepted on a pair of 1961 Bugle Boys! Thanks again for the recommendation nelamvr6 - looking forward to trying them out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Burn in time can vary, some people think 100-200 hours for complete burn in, but on those Brimar you bought i noticed a big change with just 12 hours of burn in, i just left them over night playing pink noise on some old junk headphones. They started off muddy, harsh treble and pretty congested, but everything opened up, should get better with more hours on them.
   
  Voskhod 6N1P opened right up after an overnight burn in session, wish i hadn't given them away now. My Mullard 6BQ7A (fakes) sound spectacular after only 18 hours of burn in.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I found a motherlode of free tube related literature tonight for anyone interested.
> 
> http://www.tubebooks.org/
> 
> I feel like I'm going to be spending the next couple of weeks with this page - http://www.tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm.


 
  Awesome!  Thanks!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> So much for holding off and letting the bank balance recover before buying some more tubes for my new Lyr.....just had an offer accepted on a pair of 1961 Bugle Boys! Thanks again for the recommendation nelamvr6 - looking forward to trying them out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It's my pleasure!  Be sure to let us know what you think!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Burn in time can vary, some people think 100-200 hours for complete burn in, but on those Brimar you bought i noticed a big change with just 12 hours of burn in, i just left them over night playing pink noise on some old junk headphones. They started off muddy, harsh treble and pretty congested, but everything opened up, should get better with more hours on them.
> 
> Voskhod 6N1P opened right up after an overnight burn in session, wish i hadn't given them away now. My Mullard 6BQ7A (fakes) sound spectacular after only 18 hours of burn in.


 
  I agree, at least the most dramatic changes seem to take place after around 20 hours.  Changes after that seem to me to be more subtle.  But that's probably not true in all cases either.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I found a motherlode of free tube related literature tonight for anyone interested.
> 
> http://www.tubebooks.org/
> 
> I feel like I'm going to be spending the next couple of weeks with this page - http://www.tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm.


 
  ding ding ding ding
  "winner, winner, chicken dinner !"
  Thanks Tos
   
  Also,  I very much like this site:  "National Valve Museum"
  This is a link to the Valve Technology Article.
  The article explains how diode, triode, pentode valves work.
  Explains how mu is calculated, etc.
  If the tech is overwhelming, look at the illustrations.  You can pick up the general idea from the graphs.
  The explanations are good. The site also contains many valve amplifier designs.
   
  I liked it so much, I bought the DVD of the site.


----------



## ilikepooters

Oh. My. Word...
   
   

   
  Only been a couple of hours of burn-in, but i couldn't resist having a listen, i'm too impatient.
   
  Without a doubt, this is the most amazing sound i've _ever_ heard.
   
  For those that can't see the labels properly, these are Lorenz ECC85's made in Stuttgart, Germany.
   
  What i'm getting first of all is the bass, nice and warm sounding but no overwhelming all the other frequencies. The mids? Oh those mids... I think i now know what "lush" means when referring to mids, vocals and guitar sound the best i've ever heard them through my Lyr. Treble? smooooothe! width and depth is above average, detail is impressive. I can't wait to see if they open up more with another 12 hours or so of burn-in.
   
  I don't know why more people don't roll the ECC85's, especially considering how cheap they are.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Oh. My. Word...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Is this working on Lyr?  I thought ONLY Ecc88, most of ending with 88 works.  NOT something like 85.
   
  THanks


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Is this working on Lyr?  I thought ONLY Ecc88, most of ending with 88 works.  NOT something like 85.
> 
> THanks


 
  Yes.
   
  There are a lot of analogs of ECC88 with same pin-out that work in Lyr.
   
  This is a list i made of tubes known to work in Lyr.
   
  [size=small]6BZ7/6BQ7A/ECC180[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]6N1P/6N1P-VI/6N1P-EV/6N1P-EB[/size]
  [size=small]6N2P (possibly)[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]6N23P/6N23P-EV[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]6DJ8[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]7DJ8[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]6922[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]7308[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]CCa[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]E88CC[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]ECC88[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]ECC85[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]E188CC[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]E288CC[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]PCC88[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]ECC189 (Variable mu, not recommended but sound great to me)[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]PCC189 (as above)[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]6CG7/6FQ7[/size]
   
  [size=small]There are probably more, but i'm no expert.[/size]


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Yes.
> 
> There are a lot of analogs of ECC88 with same pin-out that work in Lyr.
> 
> ...


 

 Ok....Gracias!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> ding ding ding ding
> "winner, winner, chicken dinner !"
> Thanks Tos
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks, those links are awesome too!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Oh. My. Word...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Schweet!  I'll have to see about getting some...


----------



## HK_sends

Are the ECC85s easier to find than the other Lorenz?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Skooks

My good friend Matt is sometimes behind the times on accessories... but he does have good ears.
   
  I went with Schiit's suggestion of using duck tape to pull the tubes until my wife suggested using a surgical glove. I can't believe she offered that tidbit since she doesn't have any thing to do with my audio equipment. But, it is superb in pulling those little hot beauties... sure grip. And, they don't leave tape residue that hot tubes attract from duck tape.
   
  War Eagle, Matt!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Are the ECC85s easier to find than the other Lorenz?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Apparently not!  I did an eBay search for  Lorenze ecc85 Stuttgart, there weren't too many hits...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





skooks said:


> My good friend Matt is sometimes behind the times on accessories... but he does have good ears.
> 
> I went with Schiit's suggestion of using duck tape to pull the tubes until my wife suggested using a surgical glove. I can't believe she offered that tidbit since she doesn't have any thing to do with my audio equipment. But, it is superb in pulling those little hot beauties... sure grip. And, they don't leave tape residue that hot tubes attract from duck tape.
> 
> War Eagle, Matt!


 
   
   
  Great idea! 
   
  These work really well also:
   
http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC


----------



## nelamvr6

While I was just on Amazon, I saw that you can order the Lyr from Big River now!  They're actually being sold by Audio Advisor through Amazon.
   
  Go Schiit!


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Apparently not!  I did an eBay search for  Lorenze ecc85 Stuttgart, there weren't too many hits...


 
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lorenz-ECC85-6AQ8-Tests-Excellent-Made-in-Germany-/111027091574?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d9baf876
   
  Thats the only one on ebay.


----------



## gerald410

These have arrived AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1961 LARGE O GET... will check them out when I get home


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lorenz-ECC85-6AQ8-Tests-Excellent-Made-in-Germany-/111027091574?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d9baf876
> 
> Thats the only one on ebay.


 
   
   
  And one is one too few...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> These have arrived AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1961 LARGE O GET... will check them out when I get home


 
   
  Gonna be a good night!


----------



## nelamvr6

Speaking of great nights, I've got some rolling ahead of me too!
   
  Just arrived, some Amperex USN-6922 D Getters, thanks to sceleratus! Thanks Luke, you rock! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And a pair of Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boy "Small Man" Large O Getters.
   
  What to roll in first?


----------



## GrindingThud

I have a pair from '61...not very special, and a bit microphonic. I found the Brimars much nicer. Also very nice are the Japanese made 6BZ7...very quiet and great soundstage. 


toschek said:


> Anyone tried Sylvania 6BZ7/6BQ7A tubes? Sylvania made some of the best 6SN7 tubes so maybe they did well with these too?
> 
> They seem to be very cheap too.


----------



## nelamvr6

I decided to roll in the USN-6922 D Getters.  I listened when I first turned them on, and they sound pretty nice right out of the box.  Did these already have some hours on them sceleratus?


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Speaking of great nights, I've got some rolling ahead of me too!
> 
> Just arrived, some Amperex USN-6922 D Getters, thanks to sceleratus! Thanks Luke, you rock!
> 
> ...


 
  Decisions,decisions


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> These have arrived AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1961 LARGE O GET... will check them out when I get home


 
  My Orange Globes have landed as well!


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> My Orange Globes have landed as well!


 
  They sound pretty awesome, listening to a SA-CD right now


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> They sound pretty awesome, listening to a SA-CD right now


 
   
   
  You're in Head-Fi heaven now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The Bugle Boys sound awesome too, but I think I like the OGs just a bit better.  Better bass for one thing, but not by much...


----------



## nelamvr6

These USN 6922 D Getters are starting to sound pretty sweet!  When I first powered them up the treble was a bit congested, it's opening up nicely now.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> These have arrived AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1961 LARGE O GET... will check them out when I get home


 
   
  I ordered these as well so very curious. How are the condition of the tubes and labels?


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You're in Head-Fi heaven now!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah Im digging the globes


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> I ordered these as well so very curious. How are the condition of the tubes and labels?


 
  I haven't opened the box yet lol, so busy listening to Globes.


----------



## nelamvr6

That reminds me of an old Saturday Night Live sketch.

You like the Globes, yes? The Globes are good! .


----------



## nelamvr6

Ok, I'm gonna say it, MrScary was wrong, Amperex made some super sweet glass! Just MHO, YMMV , etc.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Ok, I'm gonna say it, MrScary was wrong, Amperex made some super sweet glass! Just MHO, YMMV , etc.


 
  I concur!


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> I concur!


 
  I feel these are my best tube yet! better than my 130/pr Amperex tubes


----------



## sceleratus

Off topic. (As usual)
   
  It's a big day.
  It actually works.  Needs calibrating, but it works.


----------



## nelamvr6

gerald410 said:


> I feel these are my best tube yet! better than my 130/pr Amperex tubes




I've fallen in love with the Orange Globes too, they're my new favorite...


----------



## nelamvr6

sceleratus said:


> Off topic. (As usual)
> 
> It's a big day.
> It actually works.  Needs calibrating, but it works.




An awesome project! I can't wait to see it finished!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Ok, I'm gonna say it, MrScary was wrong, Amperex made some super sweet glass! Just MHO, YMMV , etc.


 
  None of us are always right...except me...well, I thought I was wrong once...but, I was mistaken.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The Orange globes now rate #3 on my favorites list...right after the Bugle Boy 1959 D-getters and the Lorenz 3-mica (of which, I listened to again this weekend and they are not leaving my Lyr until they die...or I do...). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I always "saved" them because I was afraid I'd never come across another set, but what good is saving them?  Listening is the thing.  If/when they croak, I'll just move down my list or move on to another amp.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Off topic. (As usual)
> 
> It's a big day.
> It actually works.  Needs calibrating, but it works.


 
  Looks pretty cool!  One question; does the fire extinguisher come standard with the amp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> None of us are always right...except me...well, I thought I was wrong once...but, I was mistaken.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have a pair 1959 d-getters and I like the globes better


----------



## gerald410

I wonder on about 1959 d-getters there is almost no indentifiers on the tubes itself  I got them from[size=x-small]* *from Mercedesman. The look like d-getters how to be sure? Only pair that i've gotten with no or little silkscreen.[/size]


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> I have a pair 1959 d-getters and I like the globes better


 
  Just a matter of personal preferences...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I find the orange globes have a smaller soundstage, but have more resolution ('detail") than the D-getters.  Of course, it's IMHO and YMMV! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> I wonder on about 1959 d-getters there is almost no indentifiers on the tubes itself  I got them from [size=small]mercedesman6572.[/size]


 
  I got three sets of the D-getters (and a set of orange globes) from him and have dealt with him in the past.  As far as I know and have heard, he's got a pretty solid reputation.  I'll take him at his word unless proven otherwise.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## toschek

Hey folks, I am making some room in my tube collection & accessories for another set of power tubes. These guys will go up for sale in the classifieds soon, matched pair unless otherwise indicated. I will throw in shipping/fees for people in the continental US. Outside of the US buyer is responsible for shipping and fees (no gift claims, don't even ask.) A proper ad will be posted shortly, this is meant as a preview for the group. 

Amperex Herleen '63 Bugle Boy 6dj8 "D-getter" (single) - $25
Amperex 1965 USN-CEP 6922 - $150 (please send PM about this set first)
Lorenz SEL PCC88 - $40
Tungsram PCC88 (single) - $17
Telefunken 6922/E88CC - $230
Electro-Harmonix 6922EH - $30
Electro-Harmonix 6SN7 - $30
Telefunken PCC189 - $30 (please send PM about this set first)
Amperex 6DJ8, Orange Label, A-Frame Dimple Getter - $35
Herbie's Ultrasonic Rx-9 (pair only) - $30
Brent Jessee "Brass Ring" tube dampers (pair only) - $20 <- http://www.audiotubes.com/damper.htm
Bakelite 9-pin socket savers (pair only) - $20

PM if interested!


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Just a matter of personal preferences...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My 2 other dealings with him have been great in his defense, I guess I wanted to be blown away by them and I wasn't


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> My 2 other dealings with him have been great in his defense, I guess I wanted to be blown away by them and I wasn't


 
  Believe me, I have felt your pain...
  And there is absolutely nothing wrong with the orange globes...I could use another backup set myself (I like to keep three sets of the same tubes...but I need another set of Lorenz 3-micas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Believe me, I have felt your pain...
> And there is absolutely nothing wrong with the orange globes...I could use another backup set myself (I like to keep three sets of the same tubes...but I need another set of Lorenz 3-micas
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I really appreciate your thoughts on the matter thanks


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> None of us are always right...except me...well, I thought I was wrong once...but, I was mistaken.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah...last auction I saw each tube was sold for $300.  It's crazy but it's reality.  It's official that's Lorenz Stuttgart is rare tube.
  Save it.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> I wonder on about 1959 d-getters there is almost no indentifiers on the tubes itself  I got them from[size=x-small]* *from Mercedesman. The look like d-getters how to be sure? Only pair that i've gotten with no or little silkscreen.[/size]


 
   
  The etched codes should be there. "D" refers to the shape of the getter; see http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/555#post_8951850.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> None of us are always right...except me...well, I thought I was wrong once...but, I was mistaken.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  My list so far (still have a lot of listening to do and much to learn):
   
  #1 - Lorenz Stuttgart 3-mica
  #2 - Amperex USN-CEP
  #3 and #4 - Bugle Boys and Orange Globes; some days I like one better; some days the other; several different sets of each.
  #5 - Siemens & Halske CCa; Grey Plates (I've only listened to these on a Lyr with HD 650's and DT880's; I suspect they may be better on the LG with LCD-3's, but I haven't had a chance to listen yet).
   
  I have 4 RTC's on the way - not sure where these will place, but from what I've read here, I suspect they will do very well. I've also not had a chance to listen to some Mullards and a set of Amperex White Labels that I have.
   
  So far, I am not a big fan of the Lorenz SEL's; they sound OK,  but not as good as the above with my setups. Perhaps with more burn-in time they will change.


----------



## ilikepooters

My list so far:
   
  1. Lorenz Stuttgart ECC85
  ...
  ..
  .
  2=. Brimar 6BQ7A
  2=. Mullard 6BQ7A (Fakes made in Taiwan, don't know the real make)
  4=. Phillips PCC189 (Mullard Blackburn)
  4=. Siemens PCC189 (A frame)
  6. Voskhod 6N1P
  7. SEL Lorenz PCC88
  8. Raytheon 6922
   
  I've not rolled any of the expensive tubes yet like Siemens CCa or Telefunkens. Bit out of my budget.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> My list so far:
> 
> 1. Lorenz Stuttgart ECC85
> ...
> ...


 

 Yeah, Now I'm looking for that baby.  BUT, I can only see one single tube in ebay.
   
  Thanks for your info.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> My list so far (still have a lot of listening to do and much to learn):
> 
> #1 - Lorenz Stuttgart 3-mica
> #2 - Amperex USN-CEP
> ...


 

 Yeah, Lorenz is in my wishlist #1. and Siemens & Halske 60's O getter gray or silver shield. CCa and RTC Ecc188


----------



## Flisker

Hello again guys 
   
  Someone posted lot of pages ago Lyr compatible tube types ... I checked some out and found this monster -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Tungsram-NOS-NIB-E80CC-12au7-ECC82-tubes-Ships-from-US-/181019573569?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a259b7d41
   

   
   
  Is this one really compatible with Lyr ? Because if it is than I have to try it, it looks massive


----------



## gmahler2u

This is a list i made of tubes known to work in Lyr.
   
  [size=small]6BZ7/6BQ7A/ECC180[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]6N1P/6N1P-VI/6N1P-EV/6N1P-EB[/size]
  [size=small]6N2P (possibly)[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]6N23P/6N23P-EV[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]6DJ8[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]7DJ8[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]6922[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]7308[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]CCa[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]E88CC[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]ECC88[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]ECC85[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]E188CC[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]E288CC[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]PCC88[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]ECC189 (Variable mu, not recommended but sound great to me)[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]PCC189 (as above)[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]6CG7/6FQ7[/size]
  Quote: 





flisker said:


> Hello again guys
> 
> Someone posted lot of pages ago Lyr compatible tube types ... I checked some out and found this monster -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Tungsram-NOS-NIB-E80CC-12au7-ECC82-tubes-Ships-from-US-/181019573569?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a259b7d41
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Hello again guys
> 
> Someone posted lot of pages ago Lyr compatible tube types ... I checked some out and found this monster -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Tungsram-NOS-NIB-E80CC-12au7-ECC82-tubes-Ships-from-US-/181019573569?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a259b7d41
> 
> ...


 
  I don't believe those are compatible because they are 12 volt tubes of the 12AU7 family.  If you can make them work in a Lyr, more power to you (no pun intended...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...
  I'm afraid if someone gets too far off the beaten path on tubes, they could end up damaging the amp components and void their warranty.  Not all nine-pin tubes are wired the same.
  Caveat Emptor!
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Hello again guys
> 
> Someone posted lot of pages ago Lyr compatible tube types ... I checked some out and found this monster -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Tungsram-NOS-NIB-E80CC-12au7-ECC82-tubes-Ships-from-US-/181019573569?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a259b7d41
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wrong pin-out, i thought it was the same originally but pin 9 is different, chances are it will break your Lyr.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Wrong pin-out, i thought it was the same originally but pin 9 is different, chances are it will break your Lyr.


 
   
  Than it's off the table ofc, thx guys.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Than it's off the table ofc, thx guys.


 
   
  I am however looking into re-wiring a cheap chinese socket saver to make them work


----------



## Timodeus

ilikepooters said:


> I think a tube that could really suit your cans would be the 6N23P-EV.
> 
> Some say it's junk but others really rate the sound. If you can get them cheap enough they are surely worth giving a go.
> 
> ...




Listening to them right now after 30 hours of burn in and start to really enjoy them. With lyr.
Good bass , natural sounding, slight rolled off treble which could suggest lack of detail but is easy on the ears. Not as 3D as the amperex bugle boys (no " pigs in space" sensation) . Not as creamy as Sylvania 's or GE's.
Combine good with sennheiser 598 AKG 701 and hifiman 300 so far. In doubt about Hifiman 500,
The main reason i bought a Lyr. They don't seem to open open up.
Work in progress.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

ilikepooters said:


> I am however looking into re-wiring a cheap chinese socket saver to make them work




The cathode voltage is wrong - 12.6V.

The Lyr is designed for 6.3V tubes.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> The cathode voltage is wrong - 12.6V.
> 
> The Lyr is designed for 6.3V tubes.


 
   
  PCC88 isn't 6.3 and works great too, but sure 12.6 is bit more off


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> The cathode voltage is wrong - 12.6V.
> 
> The Lyr is designed for 6.3V tubes.


 
   
  E80CC can work at either 6.3v or 12.6v, depends if the heaters are connected in parallel or series. Just the pinout needs correcting.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

flisker said:


> PCC88 isn't 6.3 and works great too, but sure 12.6 is bit more off




7V is one thing; but I would check with Schiit on it before popping in a 12V tube.


----------



## tuna47

Just got the lyr need advice on 1 pair of tubes $50 range


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Just got the lyr need advice on 1 pair of tubes $50 range


 
   
  Hi, cg to new purchase  hope you will enjoy your Lyr as we do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As for tubes, I think it depends a lot on headphones you are using with Lyr.
   
   



ilikepooters said:


> E80CC can work at either 6.3v or 12.6v, depends if the heaters are connected in parallel or series. Just the pinout needs correcting.


 

   
  If u make it work and they sound good please let us know, because I would love to see those in my Lyr


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Just got the lyr need advice on 1 pair of tubes $50 range


 
   
  What tubes did you get with it and how do you feel about their sound?


----------



## ilikepooters

Tuna47 has the GE tubes, listens to jazz, rnb and blues, and has HE-500 headphones.
   
So something that would work well with that combination.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> E80CC can work at either 6.3v or 12.6v, depends if the heaters are connected in parallel or series. Just the pinout needs correcting.


 
   
  Ah so!!  So maybe we CAN roll some of these Tall Boys!


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Ah so!!  So maybe we CAN roll some of these Tall Boys!


 
   
  Not without modifications, if you plug them straight into Lyr something will go pop i reckon.
   
  I started a thread in the DIY section, it seems pins 4 and 5 need wiring together and connecting to just one heater lead, then wire pin 9 to the other heater lead, that's if Lyr supplies AC to the heaters.
   
  If it's DC to the heaters it gets more confusing, 4 and 5 need wiring together again but attaching to the positive heater lead, and pin 9 to the negative heater lead.
   
  I need to get myself a multimeter so i can look into this more, oh and a couple more cheap chinese socket savers to experiment with


----------



## Flisker

What do you guys think about these -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-ECC85-RFT-TUBES-MATCHED-PAIR-New-Old-Stock-/251250671744?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a7fb50080
   
  Don't have any ECC85 at home, so I would like to try some and don't want to spend fortune on them.


----------



## ilikepooters

This is the only impression i could find about RFT ECC85.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/97618-yaqin-mc-5881a-amplifier-improvements-15.html#post2562193
   
   
   


> RFT is a disappointment.
> They have a superb stereo separation,(i don't need it, if there are other tubes showing a stage as a whole), they have no depth, odd two dimensional presentation, they superbly shows micro details, but they sounds boring, graveyard boring.
> They have strong and precise bass, but it is bit lifted to the mid tone area, good for people preferring mainstream car audio sound.
> Good tubes for audio masochists. Pitty, they have also very good gain.


 
   
  That person seems to like the Tungsram ECC85's though.
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-TUNGSRAM-ECC85-6AQ8-B719-NOS-tubes-/221209267758?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3381198e2e


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> This is the only impression i could find about RFT ECC85.
> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/97618-yaqin-mc-5881a-amplifier-improvements-15.html#post2562193
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Oh, thx for fast info 
   
  Does one tube bahave same way in different amplifiers ? I'am asking because the first link is not about Lyr.
   
  Btw does 6N2P work fine with Lyr ?


----------



## ilikepooters

Lyr is really designed to work with E88CC/6DJ8/ECC88 type tubes and is set up to supply the correct voltages to them.
   
  But running tubes out-of-spec can also sound good, like Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 is a 7v tube, but a lot of people believe them to be the holy grail of Lyr tubes, even though Lyr isn't designed specifically for that kind of tube.
   
  If an ECC85 sounds good in one amp, it might sound rubbish in another that wasn't designed for it, or it might give a better sound. only way to tell is to try it.
   
  6N2P has the correct pin-out, but is really low gain, might be garbage, not tested them myself.


----------



## Flisker

Bought these -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N2P-EV-6N2P-Vintage-70s-MATCHED-PAIR-STRONG-TUBES-ECC83-12AX7-/251261715065?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a805d8279&autorefresh=true
   
  So I'll let you guys know when I get them.


----------



## GrindingThud

I thought 6n2p is very high gain...between 50 and 100. 
http://lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html



ilikepooters said:


> 6N2P has the correct pin-out, but is really low gain, might be garbage, not tested them myself.


----------



## GrindingThud

You need some Amperex A-frames....easy to find used at reasonable prices and sound great. Nice quiet linear sounding tube.



ilikepooters said:


> My list so far:
> 
> 1. Lorenz Stuttgart ECC85
> ...
> ...


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I thought 6n2p is very high gain...between 50 and 100.
> http://lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html


 
   
  I think it's to do with the Anode being seriously undervolted. E88CC is only 100v, 6N2P is 250v.
   
  In an E88CC circuit i think gain might be low. but not 100% sure.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

flisker said:


> Oh, thx for fast info
> 
> Does one tube bahave same way in different amplifiers ? I'am asking because the first link is not about Lyr.
> 
> Btw does 6N2P work fine with Lyr ?




Tubes can behave quite differently on different amps. The much venerated 7V Lorenz 3-Mica's sound amazing on the Lyr. They sound really strange on the Liquid Glass - not pleasing - due to the cathode under- voltage.


----------



## gerald410

Listening to 1961 Amperex O-Getters still like my globes better. Wait they're kinda of funky in good way


----------



## claud W

Have listened to Tell CCa for a bit over a week. Switched them out for Amperex 6922s. This pair is OK unlike the other pair that developed noise after 30-45 minutes. Thank God I was smart enough to buy three pairs. Going to switch to other pair Friday to make sure that they are good too. Listening to bass in "Way Out West" and other Jazz CDs through HD600s is best with this tube. Fab midrange with lots of detail hard to beat. Tell CCa very dynamic, but a bit dry.


----------



## claud W

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Listening to 1961 Amperex O-Getters still like my globes better. Wait they're kinda of funky in good way


 
  What are you using for headphones? Your O-getters have white label, right?


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





claud w said:


> What are you using for headphones? Your O-getters have white label, right?


 
  Yep, HE-500.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I thought 6n2p is very high gain...between 50 and 100.
> http://lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html


 
   
  ooooh, so is 6N6P compatible with Lyr ?
   
  [size=medium]The general type is NOVAL (meaning with 9 pins) and the pinout is identical to many western novals like 6dj8, 6922, ecc88.[/size]


----------



## ilikepooters

6N6P draws MASSIVE amount of heater current, more so than 6N1P and that tube already runs very hot, should email Schiit first to see if specs allow for such massive heater load.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> 6N6P draws MASSIVE amount of heater current, more so than 6N1P and that tube already runs very hot, should email Schiit first to see if specs allow for such massive heater load.


 
   
  Sent mail to Jason, hope he gets time to answer


----------



## GrindingThud

It did not work in the WA3.  The operating point was too far off and the heater current is extreme.
  Quote: 





flisker said:


> ooooh, so is 6N6P compatible with Lyr ?
> 
> [size=medium]The general type is NOVAL (meaning with 9 pins) and the pinout is identical to many western novals like 6dj8, 6922, ecc88.[/size]


----------



## Flisker

Jason says no to 6N6P so it's over


----------



## erikfreedom

I rolled my first tubes in my lyr yesterday. I decided to buy inexpensives tubes first. I had ordered quite expensive tubes at tubedepot, but they can't find what I wanted. I bought electro harmonix 6922 Russian tubes. the stock tubes I had in the lyr before were ge 6bz7/6bq7a  and I think they are the crappiest tubes in the history of mankind.  the electro harmonix tubes cost me 14 bucks each.
   
  sound is great and I have no more noises. the ge tubes were noisy as hell. I could not go over half with the volume. now it is dead silent at full volume. bass is now tight and impactful. of course with the he 6 it is mind boggling exquisite sound. I have both he 500 and he 6 and he 6 is much more incredible sounding headphone.
   
  now I am addicted to tubes I think. I never tought this unassuming amp could sound so much better with so little money.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





erikfreedom said:


> I rolled my first tubes in my lyr yesterday. I decided to buy inexpensives tubes first. I had ordered quite expensive tubes at tubedepot, but they can't find what I wanted. I bought electro harmonix 6922 Russian tubes. the stock tubes I had in the lyr before were ge 6bz7/6bq7a  and I think they are the crappiest tubes in the history of mankind.  the electro harmonix tubes cost me 14 bucks each.
> 
> sound is great and I have no more noises. the ge tubes were noisy as hell. I could not go over half with the volume. now it is dead silent at full volume. bass is now tight and impactful. of course with the he 6 it is mind boggling exquisite sound. I have both he 500 and he 6 and he 6 is much more incredible sounding headphone.
> 
> now I am addicted to tubes I think. I never tought this unassuming amp could sound so much better with so little money.


 

 I'm still using the stock GEs whilst I wait for my new tubes to arrive.
   
  They actually sound pretty good with my HD600's. When the source is mute there is a bit of noise when I crank the volume up but it isn't really noticeable when I'm listening to anything, even at fairly high volumes (I don't tend to venture past 9-10 o'clock though lol). Last night I A/B'd the Lyr (w/ GEs) against my 02 amp. They both sounded pretty close in terms of neutrality but to my ears the O2 was lacking something (just felt flat) and the Lyr had the edge in terms of making the instruments feel further away from me and everything sounded much smoother and composed as I increased the volume.
   
  It was a different story with my Denon D2000s though so can appreciate where you are coming from. To my ears the GEs combined with the D2000s give music quite a nice almost live feel but like you I noticed a TON of unwanted noise when I went beyond half way (source muted). Bass also had a tendency to sound very flabby and uncontrolled. The O2 on the other hand was dead silent and the bass sounded far tighter and punchier, although perhaps lacking some of the 'excitement' of the Lyr.
   
  The GEs generally seem to be considered to be decent enough budget tubes, if a bit unspectacular, so I am hoping for good things from my new tubes. Both in terms of how they sound and (hopefully) reduced background noise.
   
  I have to say that from the first time I plugged my phones into the Lyr I knew it was a keeper and that's the first time I've felt that way about an amp. I really can't wait to see what it can do with some 'better' tubes rolled in!


----------



## Flisker

Oh, forgot to share with you guys who don't use socket savers ... how cool that is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Lyr looks so much better with raised tubes in my opinion + it's so much easier to change tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   

   
   

   
   

   
  Voskhod 6N1P's  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   

   
  Had to add what's at the end of chain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I'am already in love.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Oh, forgot to share with you guys who don't use socket savers ... how cool that is
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Are those the free ones I sent? They are indeed very nice tubes.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Are those the free ones I sent? They are indeed very nice tubes.


 
   
  Yep, sound great with T1's , they don't have harsh treble . Thanks a lot


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Listening to 1961 Amperex O-Getters still like my globes better. Wait they're kinda of funky in good way


 
   
  Mine still haven't arrived..


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Oh, forgot to share with you guys who don't use socket savers ... how cool that is
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Schweet!


----------



## ilikepooters

Reflector/Saratov 6N23P's arrived yesterday (1968 year), had them on burn-in since then, took a listen today after about 22hrs.
   
  I bought 3 unmatched tubes, but luckily 2 of them pair well together, cost £15 + £5 postage.
   
  They have a lovely strong bass, mids aren't lush, but they're not recessed either, treble is smooth and layed back, not got the harshness i've heard described by some people, soundstage has absolutely massive width, never heard my headphones sound so much outside the head before.
   
  One of the tubes is microphonic, other is pretty quiet, but don't notice it when the music is playing.
   
  While not outstanding, i think these are great tubes for the price.
   
  I think the ruggedised EV version would probably sort out the microphonics, but they're almost double the price, i think if you get lucky you can get 2 good non-microphonic tubes in this model.
   
  Sound - 7/10
  Value - 9/10


----------



## Tuco1965

Those definitely stand the tubes up quite a bit.  Kind of proud looking aren't they?


----------



## GrindingThud

I've had excellent service from this seller for Voskhod 6n1p-ev, the tubes are super dead silent and so non microphonic you can hit them with a pencil and not hear it. Great soundstage.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300693121421?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6N1P-EV-6DJ8-ECC88-6922-VOSKHOD-ROCKET-tubes-Lot-4-pc-NOS-NIB-/300693121421



ilikepooters said:


> Reflector/Saratov 6N23P's arrived yesterday (1968 year), had them on burn-in since then, took a listen today after about 22hrs.
> 
> I bought 3 unmatched tubes, but luckily 2 of them pair well together, cost £15 + £5 postage.
> 
> ...


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I've had excellent service from this seller for Voskhod 6n1p-ev, the tubes are super dead silent and so non microphonic you can hit them with a pencil and not hear it. Great soundstage.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/300693121421?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6N1P-EV-6DJ8-ECC88-6922-VOSKHOD-ROCKET-tubes-Lot-4-pc-NOS-NIB-/300693121421


 
   
  I had the Voskhod 6N1P non-EV version and they were lovely, donated them to Flisker, they were the same, dead silent and non-microphonic.
   
  I was just interested in trying 6N23P to see how much different they sound, the mids are fuller and treble is more layed back.
   
  Voskhod 6N1P have more detail though.
   
  If these 2 tubes could breed and have a baby it would make a very good tube.


----------



## GrindingThud

Lol....let us know if you find their offspring. 



ilikepooters said:


> If these 2 tubes could breed and have a baby it would make a very good tube.


----------



## jellofund

Whilst listening this evening I've become acutely aware of a high pitched, but fairly quiet, whistling/ringing noise through the right channel on my 'phones. It's only noticeable during the gaps between tracks or when I mute the source but now that I know it's there it's bugging me a bit.
   
  The noise itself seems to come and go, generally lasting for a few seconds, and then going quiet from anywhere between a split second to well over a minute.The intenstity of the ringing (not sure if pitch changes) seems to vary a bit too but it doesn't appear to get any louder if I turn the pot from min to max.
   
  Does this sound like a microphonic tube? I've read a various explanations of what microphonics are but the 'symptoms' seem to vary  vary from howling, feedback noise or a phone ringing sound, so really not 100%....I also have my D2000's on that seem far more sensitive to transformer/tube noise in general.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Whilst listening this evening I've become acutely aware of a high pitched, but fairly quiet, whistling/ringing noise through the right channel on my 'phones. It's only noticeable during the gaps between tracks or when I mute the source but now that I know it's there it's bugging me a bit.
> 
> The noise itself seems to come and go, generally lasting for a few seconds, and then going quiet from anywhere between a split second to well over a minute.The intenstity of the ringing (not sure if pitch changes) seems to vary a bit too but it doesn't appear to get any louder if I turn the pot from min to max.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  If you swap your tubes' positions, does the noise change channels?


----------



## velvetx

Just picked these up thought there something in here that might be a winner. No more tube buying for awhile.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121096560315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## nelamvr6

Listening to these Amperex USN 6922 D Getters, I really like them!  I like them even better than my beloved Amperex USN CEP 6922s.
   
  They're similar in some ways, but these D Getters have a more tactile sound.  Everything sounds...  I wanna say thicker, but that's not right either.  Everything seems to have more weight.  The USN CEPs seem to sound thin by comparison.  But the weightier sound doesn't come at the expense of the excellent detail and resolution that the USN CEPs had in spades, it's all still there!  
   
  These are excellent tubes!  
   
  BTW, I don't mean to say that the USN CEPs are thin sounding, no.  They are also excellent tubes!


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> If you swap your tubes' positions, does the noise change channels?


 

 I had been wondering if each tube handled its own channel, so guessing they do.
   
  If I ever manage to get the things out I will report back. I'm using a surgical glove but they're not wanting to budge without a fight, so I'm hoping these sockets are well anchored!!
   
  Better to do the reverse of what you suggested when  I inserted them (straight up and down) or does some light rocking help free them up?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





velvetx said:


> Just picked these up thought there something in here that might be a winner. No more tube buying for awhile.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121096560315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


 
   
   
  Interesting!  I hope you strike gold!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I had been wondering if each tube handled its own channel, so guessing they do.
> 
> If I ever manage to get the things out I will report back. I'm using a surgical glove but they're not wanting to budge without a fight, so I'm hoping these sockets are well anchored!!
> 
> Better to do the reverse of what you suggested when  I inserted them (straight up and down) or does some light rocking help free them up?


 
   
  Yeah, gentle rocking is OK, just keep it gentle.
   
  That's how tube rolling got its name!  You roll the tubes out...
   
  Now you can see the benefit of socket savers.  They make rolling a LOT easier!


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Yeah, gentle rocking is OK, just keep it gentle.
> 
> That's how tube rolling got its name!  You roll the tubes out...
> 
> Have you though of installing socket savers?  They make rolling a LOT easier!


 
   


 I think I'm going to leave it 'til the morning as it's now 2:30am, and I meant to call it a night a couple of hours back.....recipe for disaster.
   
  I could really do with an extra 1cm or so of tube protruding as the recess on the top just isn't deep enough to get my fingers round the suckers adequately.
   
  Re. tube savers. I can see why they're a good idea now and I have ordered some but unfortunately they're currently sat on your side of the pond still, but will make life a heck of a lot easier!!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I think I'm going to leave it 'til the morning as it's now 2:30am, and I meant to call it a night a couple of hours back.....recipe for disaster.
> 
> I could really do with an extra 1cm or so of tube protruding as the recess on the top just isn't deep enough to get my fingers round the suckers adequately.
> 
> Re. tube savers. I can see why they're a good idea now and I have ordered some but unfortunately they're currently sat on your side of the pond still, but will make life a heck of a lot easier!!


 
   
   
  Good luck!


----------



## toschek

jellofund said:


> I think I'm going to leave it 'til the morning as it's now 2:30am, and I meant to call it a night a couple of hours back.....recipe for disaster.
> 
> I could really do with an extra 1cm or so of tube protruding as the recess on the top just isn't deep enough to get my fingers round the suckers adequately.
> 
> Re. tube savers. I can see why they're a good idea now and I have ordered some but unfortunately they're currently sat on your side of the pond still, but will make life a heck of a lot easier!!




In a pinch (no pun intended) dishwashing gloves are a big help.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I had been wondering if each tube handled its own channel, so guessing they do.
> 
> If I ever manage to get the things out I will report back. I'm using a surgical glove but they're not wanting to budge without a fight, so I'm hoping these sockets are well anchored!!
> 
> Better to do the reverse of what you suggested when  I inserted them (straight up and down) or does some light rocking help free them up?


 
   
  I developed kind of method how to get out tubes without socket savers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  First you need to slice lenom, "clean" your hands with lemon "juice" and dry them. This will make your hands "anti-slippery" so you can just grab tube nicely, move with it left and right a little while pulling it out. I'am using thumb and forefinger on right hand and forefinger on left hand to pull them out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Can do photo of how I grab them if you are interested. It's matter of 20 seconds to take both tubes out maybe less.
   
   



jellofund said:


> Whilst listening this evening I've become acutely aware of a high pitched, but fairly quiet, whistling/ringing noise through the right channel on my 'phones. It's only noticeable during the gaps between tracks or when I mute the source but now that I know it's there it's bugging me a bit.
> 
> The noise itself seems to come and go, generally lasting for a few seconds, and then going quiet from anywhere between a split second to well over a minute.The intenstity of the ringing (not sure if pitch changes) seems to vary a bit too but it doesn't appear to get any louder if I turn the pot from min to max.
> 
> ...


 

   
  My Lorenz PCC88 is doing same noises, switching doesn't help. I think it's just dying/defective tube. Tried cleaning pins, but it didn't help. 
   
  It's so annoying that I can't use these for anything else than testing purposes.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





flisker said:


> I developed kind of method how to get out tubes without socket savers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sounds like a neat idea!
   
  I had been using some surgical gloves and they seemed grippy enough but the biggest problem I had was getting my thumb and forefinger in enough to grab the tube body. My Wife's a midwife and I figured if they're good enough for catching babies then they should be okay for tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I e-mailed Jason @ Schiit and he suggested wrapping them in some tape and then pull them right out. This did the job (using Duck tape) but have to say it was still far from easy. I really needed to pull them pretty hard to get them moving at all and rather than edging out they literally flew out. They are now covered in sticky residue though so not an ideal solution and I don't have anything to hand to clean them.
   
  One or two of the pins look slightly off but I'm not sure if they were always that way (in a lot of tubes the pins look kind of crooked to me) or it happened during / after insertion. The one thing I did notice when I originally plugged them in was that in the 'hole' closest to the volume pot, the ceramic disc that sits atop the 9 metal sockets doesn't line up very well with  a couple of them. Gently prodding the disc with a wooden coffee stirrer allows for some lateral movement but they still don't line up all that well so I'm not sure if that's down to poor assembly or just how these things come. May have resulted in some of the pins being wedged in quite tight but the top one wasn't much better to work with and that lines up a lot better.
   
  I guess if there is one thing I'd like to see Schiit change design wise this would be it as it's really not great in an amp that seems to encourage tube rolling. There seems to be plenty of reviews / posts commenting on how tricky it is to remove the tubes and Schiit acknowledge it in the manual. I think a member here even had a tube implode during removal so it's definitely far from ideal.
   
  Rather than mess about any more I think I'm going to wait until my socket savers and new tubes arrive and start afresh. I'm hoping that'll make things much simpler and stress free!
   
  Quote: 





flisker said:


> My Lorenz PCC88 is doing same noises, switching doesn't help. I think it's just dying/defective tube. Tried cleaning pins, but it didn't help.
> 
> It's so annoying that I can't use these for anything else than testing purposes.


 
   
  Really sorry to hear that. From what I've read the Lorenz PCC88s are meant to be great tubes and not all that easy to find. At least with the cheapo GEs I can bin them and not think twice but you must be gutted


----------



## claud W

Once again, its good to read this thread. Electroharmonix sells a "Tube Glove" device shown in this thread. I got mine at Amazon. Works like a champ to change/roll Lyr tubes.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





claud w said:


> Once again, its good to read this thread. Electroharmonix sells a "Tube Glove" device shown in this thread. I got mine at Amazon. Works like a champ to change/roll Lyr tubes.


 

 I noticed the link but Amazon won't ship to the UK.
   
  However, I've managed to find a place here in the UK that sells guitars & amps(Hot Rox UK) stocking them for approx. £12 delivered, so have ordered one. Maybe overkill with the socket savers but after last night I figure it's better to have the tools to hand and not need them rather than the other way round.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I noticed the link but Amazon won't ship to the UK.
> 
> However, I've managed to find a place here in the UK that sells guitars & amps(Hot Rox UK) stocking them for approx. £12 delivered, so have ordered one. Maybe overkill with the socket savers but after last night I figure it's better to have the tools to hand and not need them rather than the other way round.


 
   
  You have a link for the UK seller? Fancy one of those gloves myself.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Sounds like a neat idea!
> 
> I had been using some surgical gloves and they seemed grippy enough but the biggest problem I had was getting my thumb and forefinger in enough to grab the tube body. My Wife's a midwife and I figured if they're good enough for catching babies then they should be okay for tubes
> 
> ...


 
   
  Tape sounds like terrible idea to me, because of that sticky residue + you cant pull it straight up than or can you ?
   
  I'll make photos of how I grab them it's really easy one u get it. U just have to grab them tight and they come out nice slow if u want, no worries about damaging tube or something.
   
  Should get home in about hour.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





flisker said:


> I developed kind of method how to get out tubes without socket savers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Switching should at least help to determine for certain if it is in fact a tube causing the issue or if the Lyr's chassis has some issues...
   
  I have heard that sometimes little problems like this can go away with burn in.  Though I'm not sure how many hours you should wait before you throw in the towel and get a new tube.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I noticed the link but Amazon won't ship to the UK.
> 
> However, I've managed to find a place here in the UK that sells guitars & amps(Hot Rox UK) stocking them for approx. £12 delivered, so have ordered one. Maybe overkill with the socket savers but after last night I figure it's better to have the tools to hand and not need them rather than the other way round.


 
   
  I agree, I'd rather have as many tools as possible.  Especially when we're not talking about all that much money.
   
  Did you get your tubes out OK?


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Switching should at least help to determine for certain if it is in fact a tube causing the issue or if the Lyr's chassis has some issues...
> 
> I have heard that sometimes little problems like this can go away with burn in.  Though I'm not sure how many hours you should wait before you throw in the towel and get a new tube.


 
   
  I didn't buy them new, got them with Lyr (guess they have plenty of hours on them) and both my tubes got different ringing "problems" already gave up on them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's to listen to them, but it's not ok to get headphones on and do work etc because when there is not loud music it's very annoying listen to those sounds.
   
   
  As for rolling out tubes ... this is how I do it. Can't show it with both hands because I couldn't take photos than 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so first 3 photos are right hand and another 2 are left hand.
   
  Of course I got savers there now so I can just take them out easily, but this the way I did it when there was no savers.
   
  Just grab them tight this way, move sideways with tube while pulling here out and it will go easily if u will hold it tight. Using left hand to help move tube sideways.
   
  Hope it helps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  ps: that lemon is key thing here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, otherwise it will just slip out of grip and u will get crazy (at least I did few times)


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





flisker said:


> I didn't buy them new, got them with Lyr (guess they have plenty of hours on them) and both my tubes got different ringing "problems" already gave up on them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  nice finger action!!


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> nice finger action!!


 
   










   
  Oh and little off topic .... how far do you guys think I can go with volume on Lyr ? I'am now at nearly 3 o'clock when listening to "Philip Glass - Orion"
   
  I remember reading something like, "Hey, be carefull, Lyr could send your headphones to the heaven" on Schiit page.
   
  T1's are 600 ohm cans so I hope it can't go wrong.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Tape sounds like terrible idea to me, because of that sticky residue + you cant pull it straight up than or can you ?


 
   
  Yeah, it wasn't great but it was the only thing that would do the job (hadn't read your lemon tip at that point). It did leave a lot of residue and whilst the tube kind of went straight up one did go off at a slight angle and I didn't have a lot of control. I tried gradually increasing the amount of force I was pulling the tape up with but it got to the point were it was a sudden (like a cork out of a champagne bottle) release rather than a gradual process.
   
  I think I'll need to buy some isopropyl to remove any leftover gunk & grease from the glass as I can't imagine heating the tubes up right now would be a good thing.
   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I agree, I'd rather have as many tools as possible.  Especially when we're not talking about all that much money.
> 
> Did you get your tubes out OK?


 
   
  I got there in the end cheers but it was a real faff (posted a bit more about it a page or two back) and I think I invented some new swear words in the process. Socket savers really can't come soon enough!
   
   
 Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> You have a link for the UK seller? Fancy one of those gloves myself.


 
   
  Here you go:
   
  http://www.hotroxuk.com/tube-glove.html
   
  I haven't used them before but comms have been good and I received a shipping notification within an hour of ordering to say my item would be dispatched today. You can use Paypal and don't need to create an account to checkout (they ask for a phone no. but I just stuck in 'ex-directory').
   
  Quote: 





flisker said:


> As for rolling out tubes ... this is how I do it. Can't show it with both hands because I couldn't take photos than
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks very much for the pics and clear explanation. That's really very kind of you & is much appreciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I should a pretty good arsenal of things to try next time I need to remove any tubes!


----------



## jellofund

flisker said:


> Oh and little off topic .... how far do you guys think I can go with volume on Lyr ? I'am now at nearly 3 o'clock when listening to "Philip Glass - Orion"
> 
> I remember reading something like, "Hey, be carefull, Lyr could send your headphones to the heaven" on Schiit page.
> 
> T1's are 600 ohm cans so I hope it can't go wrong.


 
   
  I've not had to go much past 9 o'clock but my cans are only 300 ohm (HD600).


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I've not had to go much past 9 o'clock but my cans are only 300 ohm (HD600).


 
   
  Usually I go to 11-12 o'clock but this album was somehow quite so I had to go further and I would maybe go to 4 o'clock but started to getting bit scared around 3.
   
  I'am also using -5 db parametric EQ so I could raise sub-bass, which leads to going further with overall volume too.
   
  Would like to know if it's ok for example crank it up completely with tubes like 6N1P and T1's without damaging headphones.
   
  ps : thanks for appreciation


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Oh and little off topic .... how far do you guys think I can go with volume on Lyr ? I'am now at nearly 3 o'clock when listening to "Philip Glass - Orion"
> 
> I remember reading something like, "Hey, be carefull, Lyr could send your headphones to the heaven" on Schiit page.
> 
> T1's are 600 ohm cans so I hope it can't go wrong.


 
  I think 3 o'clock listening is quite loud listening volume for my taste.
  I go with 9 o'clock or 10.
   
  different phone with different volume level?


----------



## ForsakenArcher

3 o' clock with Lyr? I never get past 11 o'clock with HE-500 and T1, and only on some quiet tracks, I ventured to 12 o'clock. I suppose you are using T1. Is your digital volume maximized? I think its better to be careful with Lyr, or any powerful amp in general. I always turn the pot all the way down, before plugging in or out my phones, even with HE-500 on.
  I think there is this thing called maximum input level a headphone can handle. Input power past that level can be not healthy to the phone?


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





forsakenarcher said:


> 3 o' clock with Lyr? I never get past 11 o'clock with HE-500 and T1, and only on some quiet tracks, I ventured to 12 o'clock. I suppose you are using T1. Is your digital volume maximized? I think its better to be careful with Lyr, or any powerful amp in general. I always turn the pot all the way down, before plugging in or out my phones, even with HE-500 on.
> I think there is this thing called maximum input level a headphone can handle. Input power past that level can be not healthy to the phone?


 
   
  Yea as I said I have EQed everything -5 db which is one thing and second that even with EQ I never did past 12 o'clock but with "Orion" album which is very quiet I needed at least 2 o'clock to have it at decent volume.
   
  For example now I'am listening to "Three Days Grace" and 11 o'clock is plenty of volume.
   
  And yea volume is maxed, I'am using WASAPI.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Oh, you remind me. Good thing. Need to listen to three days grace. Starting with Life Starts Now. Lyr with 6N1P and HE500 are very good for alt rock.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





forsakenarcher said:


> Oh, you remind me. Good thing. Need to listen to three days grace. Starting with Life Starts Now. Lyr with 6N1P and HE500 are very good for alt rock.


 
   
  Yea Three Days Grace are great band, especialy songs like Time Of Dying or Riot. Could listen too these all day long


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





flisker said:


> My Lorenz PCC88 is doing same noises, switching doesn't help. I think it's just dying/defective tube. Tried cleaning pins, but it didn't help.
> 
> It's so annoying that I can't use these for anything else than testing purposes.


 
  Since you have nothing to lose try warming them up and then flicking your fingernail against the glass.
  This was suggested by a very knowledgeable tube person.
   
  It makes sense.
  One of the tests my device performs is "grid emissions" test.  From the testing procedures manual... " There is normally some little evaporation of the cathode coating material on the grid of a tube.  Some of this vapor tends to deposit on the grid and gives rise to what is known as grid emissions, whereby the grid itself emits electrons and draws current commonly know as "negative grid current"....... If a slight amount of "gas" is present in a tube some of the electrons from the cathode will collide with molecules of the gas......  known as "gas current" or grid emissions current
   
  By flicking the warm tube perhaps some debris from the grid will dislodge.
  Can't hurt because you don't like the tube anyway.
   
  This has also been suggested for microphonic tubes.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Since you have nothing to lose try warming them up and then flicking your fingernail against the glass.
> This was suggested by a very knowledgeable tube person.
> 
> It makes sense.
> ...


 
   
  Great one, thanks again 
   
  Will try for sure. Don't like them much with T1 true, but they are great match for HD650 and I'am not selling those in near future so would be nice if I get them working.


----------



## NightFlight

Careful here guys. I was testing a Lorenz pcc88 for microphonics that way and it almost took out my right channel and ear. While catastrophic failure of a tube is rare, it apparently does happen.


----------



## nelamvr6

Rolling in the Small Men!
  
  Amperex 6DJ8 ECC88 Bugle Boy Small Man Large O Getters, '60's vintage:


----------



## NightFlight

My Bifrost will be going up for sale shortly. Any interest in here?


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> My Bifrost will be going up for sale shortly. Any interest in here?


 
   
  What do you think you will replace it with?


----------



## sceleratus

Well they arrived.
  Both sets of RTC's
  1965 and 1967
   
  Now I can compare them and hope the 65's are as good as I remember.
  The 67's from This Listing are appear flawless. Let's hope they have the voice to match.
  The seller has more.
  I will let you know what I think.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Here you go:
> 
> http://www.hotroxuk.com/tube-glove.html
> 
> I haven't used them before but comms have been good and I received a shipping notification within an hour of ordering to say my item would be dispatched today. You can use Paypal and don't need to create an account to checkout (they ask for a phone no. but I just stuck in 'ex-directory').


 
   
  Just a quick update to say that I received my Tube Glove today < 24 hrs after ordering so can give this seller a big thumbs up.
   
  The first thing that struck me about the Tube Glove was just how cheap and 'squishy' looking it was (must've cost pennies / cents to make)  which gave me some doubts about just how effective it would be and wondering if it was worth the cash.
   
  Conversely in practice though I have to say that it is fantastic and worth every penny I paid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Just some quick impression which may be of help to anyone considering one:
   
  Considering just how difficult and time consuming I was finding it to remove tubes the difference is like night and day. I can now remove my tubes very quickly and with minimal fuss. Simply a case of sliding the smaller end of the glove over the top of the tube and pushing down so it covers most of the  glass (there is plenty of clearance to get it right inside the Lyr), then whilst holding the glove firmly between thumb & forefinger towards the top of the tube start to pull the tube upwards whilst also lightly wiggling the tube from left to right (thanks again for the tip Flisker!) until you feel the tube start to loosen from the socket, and then pull it straight up and out. No bent pins, rude words or brute force needed.
   
  Schiit should really do a deal with these guys and either bundle one or sell them as an optional accessory. They could brand it GTSO (get the schiit out) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The only proviso I would add is that I'm not sure how long this would last if you were doing a lot of tube rolling as the material it is made of (some kind of rubber I think) feels quite supple so may (but may not) be prone to stretching.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Schiit should really do a deal with these guys and either bundle one or sell them as an optional accessory. They could brand it GTSO (get the schiit out)


 
  You made me grin, notwithstanding with a oozy feeling.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I have dealt with Hot Rox in the past and they were a good organisation, Nottingham based.
   
  I am a long term tube roller who is looking at the Lyr as a possible purchase. I see lots of 'unusual' variants being tested here, and I am a bit surprized. Is this because the Lyr really responds to them or is this because of a shortage of quality ECC88? My advise previously for rollers on a budget has always been look ECC88 / 6DJ8s from the likes of Amperex  and Mullard (British / Holland manufacture).They were always a fraction of the cost of the E88CC / 6922 etc but still had great potential performance. The like of the 6BQ7 / 6ES8 were always the high distortion tubes! Is this a bit different with the Lyr?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> I have dealt with Hot Rox in the past and they were a good organisation, Nottingham based.
> 
> I am a long term tube roller who is looking at the Lyr as a possible purchase. I see lots of 'unusual' variants being tested here, and I am a bit surprized. Is this because the Lyr really responds to them or is this because of a shortage of quality ECC88? My advise previously for rollers on a budget has always been look ECC88 / 6DJ8s from the likes of Amperex  and Mullard (British / Holland manufacture).They were always a fraction of the cost of the E88CC / 6922 etc but still had great potential performance. The like of the 6BQ7 / 6ES8 were always the high distortion tubes! Is this a bit different with the Lyr?


 
   
  I think most of it is being addicted to tube rolling, and the rest of it is being on a tight budget.
   
  I don't really want to be spending more than £40 on a pair of tubes, and things like amperex or mullard ECC88 can be more than this, so running other cheap tubes out of spec is a way around this.
   
  ECC85 sounds great, even though specs are different, and siemens and telefunken variants can be had for peanuts.
   
  Sounding 'great' is subjective though, depends what each person likes.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Well they arrived.
> Both sets of RTC's
> 1965 and 1967
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ordered the same ones (not here yet). Can't wait to hear your impressions!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Just a quick update to say that I received my Tube Glove today < 24 hrs after ordering so can give this seller a big thumbs up.


 
   
  +1. The EH tube gloves don't look like much, but they work great.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Rolling in the Small Men!
> 
> Amperex 6DJ8 ECC88 Bugle Boy Small Man Large O Getters, '60's vintage:


 
  Got a pair, when I got my globes. I'm gonna stick with the globes for a minute Please post any impressions thanks.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Ordered the same ones (not here yet). Can't wait to hear your impressions!


 
   
 I listened to my 65's for an hour then the new 67's for an hour. I have LCD2's.
 Same music selections.
 They are close to the 65's but missing the last 5% of "finish" that make the 65's exceptional.
 I suspect they will get there when broken in.
  
 These valves are mondo-galactic.  Very musical with a large voice.
 I find my head floating inside the track with instruments and vocals coming from every direction.
 They are incredible with vocals, acoustics, and percussion.  By this I mean classical violin,
 acoustic guitar, blues, and honest 4-5 piece Gibson / Fender rock and roll. 
  
 I have or have had Orange Globes (67/69) Bugle Boys (65) USN-CEP (65) 6922 D Getter (60) Valvo (65) GE Clear Tops, Lorenz PCC88.
 IMO none of them come close to these RTC's.  That's my music preferences, LCD2's, and my ears.  I will probably stop buying because
 I like these so much and I can't imagine anything sounding better.  Doing the math, these are rated for 10,000 hours.  If I listen every day, for 3 hours, that's 10 years.
 I have 2 sets.  I think they are a deal at $150.  I've paid twice that for a set of valves.
  
 Tracks.  Bob Marley Redemption, Stones Love in Vain, Country Honk, Round and Around. Buddy Guy & Jr Wells That's Alright.
 Dead Ripple, Dylan Highway 61 Revisited. Doors L.A. Woman. Ravi Shankar Tradional Gat II
  
 I hope you enjoy them.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I think 3 o'clock listening is quite loud listening volume for my taste.
> I go with 9 o'clock or 10.
> 
> different phone with different volume level?


 
   
  The HD800s with PCC189s and a quiet recording make it to about 1-2PM before the pain sets in. Otherwise with a proper tube and proper recording levels normal is 9-11AM with the 800s, depending on mood. 12PM would be... a bit nuts... and destructive on hearing.


----------



## NightFlight

S&H Early E288CCs
   
  Excellent detail and imaging. Sweet highs. Missing all the fun bottom end. The tubes require a little more gain, but otherwise good. The operating points are just not there. So E288CC's... not the right tube for the Lyr. They work. Good if you can find them for free.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I listened to my 65's for an hour then the new 67's for an hour. I have LCD2's.
> Same music selections.
> They are close to the 65's but missing the last 5% of "finish" that make the 65's exceptional.
> I suspect they will get there when broken in.
> ...


 
   
  Wow, great review, thanks!
   
  Let's just say I'm glad I ordered 2 sets of these.  They sound like show-stoppers.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> What do you think you will replace it with?


 
   
  A really old Adcom GDA-700. It has been modified out the Wazoo. However, I can't post or discuss the modifications due to non-disclosure. I'm really sorry about that, but there's some really basic game changing tech in there.  Also, these were being used between DAC and Lyr... as well as throughout the source system: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/teoaudio2/liquid.html
   
  Anyhow, the modded Adcom ate my Bifrost for breakfast, slapped me in the face a few times and the Lyr lit up like never before. I honestly didn't think CDs were capable of the detail I heard. The optical out on my MBP was ruled out as CRAP as well, but I already had a hunch this was true.
   
  I've been chastised a few times in the HD800 forum for running the Lyr with the 800s. Then I was told the Bifrost will outlast my Lyr by a few upgrades. Well my friends... it just ain't so. I could clearly distinguish the layers between sound signature and detail. When I heard that much detail fight its way though the tube - I realized the signature you pick while important - is secondary. +1 again for the Lyr. It's an awesome amp.
   
  stock: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648942433-adcom_gda_700_dac
   
  It was 30 second listen. Took my headphones and said. "I need a new DAC". I was politely reminded the Bifrost is an excellent DAC and performs amazingly well. But what I just heard cannot currently be bought at any price. 
   
  ... a few days of relative silence pass ...
   
  So a few days later I tried the Bifrost again. I got my replacement USB card in (the original USB card started freaking out. I also noticed the new card has a change on it. hmmm).  It sounds better than ever before. My ear has pretty much forgotten everything, and the Bifrost is really groovy again. Go figure. That's audio for ya.


----------



## NightFlight

Finally.


----------



## HK_sends

Well, I got a set of Tungsram ECC85s today and color me impressed!  I tried Russian 6N1Ps before and wasn't happy with the sound, but these sound pretty awesome!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Got a pair, when I got my globes. I'm gonna stick with the globes for a minute Please post any impressions thanks.


 
  Will do.
   
  So far, the OGs are still my favorites.  here's my list so far:
   
  1. Ampex 6DJ8 Orange Globes 1968
  2. Amperex USN 6922 D Getter  1960
  3. Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boy 1966
  4. Amperex USN-CEP 6922 '60's.
  5. RCA 6BZ7 
  6. GE 6BZ7
   
  The Small Men will fit somewhere in there, I'll know where in a couple of days.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Finally.


 
   
   
  Nice!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Wow, great review, thanks!
> 
> Let's just say I'm glad I ordered 2 sets of these.  They sound like show-stoppers.


 
  I sure hope you like them.
  I've been raving about them for some time and I hope they don't let you down.  Eddie997 and Fearless1 love them too.
   
  I see you have LCD3's. They should be fantastic together.  I ordered mine on the 13th (weekend) and I got them yesterday.
   
  I find them to be very detailed, without being harsh. They bring out subtle things I didn't detect with any other valves.
  A lot of "wow.  I never heard that before" moments.  I find the soundstage to be expansive.  At the moment my 65's are even bigger.  That's the area that I hope grows just a tad more.
  The sound staging is not at all bad right now but it can go to mind bending places. I can listen to them for a long time without fatigue.  I can also turn them up without discomfort.  Make sure you pump em' up a bit.
   
  The new 67's are  going to stay in the Lyr until I think they have reached max improvement.  Then I'll take them out and to compare to the 65's.
  That said,  They sound damn fine to me right now.  The 67's are better than anything else I have ever owned. The 65's are from another planet.
   
  Seriously, I know the CCa's, Siemens, and the like are considered the gold standard and I am fortunate enough to afford any of them, but I am so smitten with these RTC's I have no desire to buy anything else.
   
  This is just a commentary relating my experiences and opinions. No facts.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Will do.
> 
> So far, the OGs are still my favorites.  here's my list so far:
> 
> ...


 
  Seriously...
  You have to break those D's in.


----------



## gmahler2u

Love this tube!!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I sure hope you like them.
> I've been raving about them for some time and I hope they don't let you down.  Eddie997 and Fearless1 love them too.
> 
> I see you have LCD3's. They should be fantastic together.  I ordered mine on the 13th (weekend) and I got them yesterday.
> ...


 
  So you wouldn't be willing to swap a set of Lorenz 3-mica for a set of RTC E188CCs and do a compario?  I'm curious as to how the RTC's sound and would be willing (on a temporary basis of course...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

Got these behemoths today...
   
   

   

   
  Compared to a "normal" tube...

   
   
  Just to make it clear to everyone - *do not put these E80CC tubes straight into your Lyr, they are incompatible (wrong pinout) and likely will make smoke come out of it*
   
  My soldering iron broke so i haven't been able to mod the cheap chinese socket savers yet to get these tubes working in Lyr, but that only encouraged me to spend more money, invested in a "proper" soldering station rather than the cheapo i had before.

  http://www.maplin.co.uk/60w-professional-lcd-solder-station-with-esd-protection-511927
   
  I'll let you know how i get on once new soldering iron + cheap socket savers turn up


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Got these behemoths today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  This should be good!  I'd be way too nervous trying this on my Lyr!  Hell, I'm nervous watching you try it on your Lyr!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Seriously...
> You have to break those D's in.


 
   
   
  Hey, I love those D Getters!  I just like the OGs just a wee bit better.


----------



## tuna47

How are the halo getters


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> How are the halo getters


 
  You mean the USN-CEPs?


----------



## nelamvr6

The Small Men are sounding pretty good!  BUT... they're also the noisiest tubes I have so far.  I'm not certain yet if this will affect my decision to keep them or not.  The noise is only apparent when the music is stopped.
   
  Right now I'm gonna continue to burn them in and see how that affects the noise.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sceleratus said:


> I sure hope you like them.
> I've been raving about them for some time and I hope they don't let you down.  Eddie997 and Fearless1 love them too.
> 
> I see you have LCD3's. They should be fantastic together.  I ordered mine on the 13th (weekend) and I got them yesterday.
> ...




Mine arrived today (also ordered them on the 13th). I've been listening on the Lyr with the HD 800 and the D2000 (modded) - Mahler, Philip Glass, Webern and Chauvon (Baroque).

I totally agree with your description of these beauties - detailed and balanced across the full spectrum- very accurate. And yes, the soundstage is very good, but I too think they might open up a little more over time with more break-in.

I think I will wait and roll them into the Liquid Glass to try them with the LCD-3's (better match with the LCD's).

Need to listen more, but these will place high on my list.

More later!


----------



## HK_sends

If anybody needs some tubes, I've put some up for sale.  No...not the Lorenz 3-micas...yet.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/661481/tubes-for-schiit-lyr
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## NightFlight

I may have to eat my words concerning sound signature of tubes coming second to source detail. These S&H CCA are exactly what they are hyped up to be. Mr. Scary has it right, and I have to give him the nod. I've only listened briefly, but it was enough. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm upset one is microphonic. With headphones I'm hoping that doesn't trigger feedback. Doesn't seem to.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Mine arrived today (also ordered them on the 13th). I've been listening on the Lyr with the HD 800 and the D2000 (modded) - Mahler, Philip Glass, Webern and Chauvon (Baroque).
> 
> I totally agree with your description of these beauties - detailed and balanced across the full spectrum- very accurate. And yes, the soundstage is very good, but I too think they might open up a little more over time with more break-in.
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah !!!!
  That made my day.
   
  I only own LCD2's so that's my sphere of influence.
  You will be more amazed if they morph into the 65's
  I'm thinking ... yup
   
  A buck fifty is a steal for something that sounds like that.
   
  Let me put it this way.....
  $70 for OG's is a big move up from stock.
  An additional $70 for these is the same elevator ride up .... sonic goodness.... from OG's
   
  My 2 cents.
  My ears.  And they are old ears at that.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> If anybody needs some tubes, I've put some up for sale.  No...not the Lorenz 3-micas...yet.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/661481/tubes-for-schiit-lyr
> 
> ...


 
  Hey Noobs out there.
   
  Grab a pair of the Lorenz SEL (Yugo)  It's an awesome set of glass for $45


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I may have to eat my words concerning sound signature of tubes coming second to source detail. These S&H CCA are exactly what they are hyped up to be. Mr. Scary has it right, and I have to give him the nod. I've only listened briefly, but it was enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Are they NOS?  Maybe the microphonics will improve with time.  Do you have dampeners installed?


----------



## nelamvr6

I'd love to get a pair of the Siemens & Halske CCa, but they're unobtanium!  When you can find them they're really pricey...  and they're so hard to find!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Well they arrived.
> Both sets of RTC's
> 1965 and 1967
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  OK, now I'm really interested.  What's the exact part number?  I need details...


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> OK, now I'm really interested.  What's the exact part number?  I need details...


 
  Nev,
   
  This is the exact place Scott and I purchased from.
  I can't believe they have so many, but they are the real Magilla.
   
RTC Listing
   
  They really shouldn't be anything special.
  Amperex plant, Heerlen Netherlands, Gold Pin, Large halo getter.
  Not unlike a USN-CEP.
   
  I'm here to tell ya, they sound a lot better than USN-CEP.
   
  IMO  IMO   IMO
   
  If I didn't think that, I wouldn't have sold some..... D getters, and some ....


----------



## sceleratus

Wait for more of Scott's review.
   
  I don't want to be "The Guy"


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Nev,
> 
> This is the exact place Scott and I purchased from.
> I can't believe they have so many, but they are the real Magilla.
> ...


 
  I hope they can hold on to some long enough for me to get sometime in the future...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I hope they can hold on to some long enough for me to get sometime in the future...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  That seller has some Killer old radios.
   
  Very close to buying one.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Nev,
> 
> This is the exact place Scott and I purchased from.
> I can't believe they have so many, but they are the real Magilla.
> ...


 
   
   
  OK, I have a pair on the way.  I'm really curious to hear them now.  The sad thing is I'll prolly be out of town when they get here...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I hope they can hold on to some long enough for me to get sometime in the future...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Well, I just bought two, so now there's only 8 left...


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Well, I just bought two, so now there's only 8 left...


 
  Now I'm nervous again.
   
  I feel responsible for this.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Now I'm nervous again.
> 
> I feel responsible for this.


 
  How do you think Misterrogers felt when he turned us on to the Lorenz tubes? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> How do you think Misterrogers felt when he turned us on to the Lorenz tubes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Blame "fearless1"
   
  He started it.
   
  "eddiek997" got hooked as well


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sceleratus said:


> Now I'm nervous again.
> 
> I feel responsible for this.




No worries. They are well worth it!


----------



## nelamvr6

I ain't skeered!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nightflight said:


> I may have to eat my words concerning sound signature of tubes coming second to source detail. These S&H CCA are exactly what they are hyped up to be. Mr. Scary has it right, and I have to give him the nod. I've only listened briefly, but it was enough.
> 
> I'm upset one is microphonic. With headphones I'm hoping that doesn't trigger feedback. Doesn't seem to.




That's weird. My set of S&H CCa also has one very microphonic tube - the other one is fine. I'm using Herbie's Rx tube dampeners and have not had any issues.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sceleratus said:


> Wait for more of Scott's review.
> 
> I don't want to be "The Guy"




Hey, I'm already a convert! Tomorrow I'll give a listen with the LCD-3's and report back.


----------



## toschek

Hey tube-heads, I still have some sets up for sale if anyone wants them. I dropped prices some from last time. I will cover shipping/fees in the continental US. Price is for a pair. 

PM if you are interested. 

Amperex 1965 USN-CEP 6922 - $125
Electro-Harmonix 6922 - $25
Amperex 6DJ8, Orange Label, A-Frame Dimple Getter - $35


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> No worries. They are well worth it!


 
  YES


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Hey tube-heads, I still have some sets up for sale if anyone wants them. I dropped prices some from last time. I will cover shipping/fees in the continental US. Price is for a pair.
> 
> PM if you are interested.
> 
> ...


 
  That's a good deal on the USN-CEP's
   
  I'm asking $200 for mine.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Are they NOS?  Maybe the microphonics will improve with time.  Do you have dampeners installed?


 
   
  Yep, NOS. Dampeners don't seem to help a tap of the box. I just won't tap the box. 
   
  I'm done. Their amazing, even at low volume levels.  Haven't found anything their weak on. Yes they're expensive. All my other rolls have gone up on ebay to pay for them. I think I caught them at $240. Is that too much? It was my mouse that did it. ... actually touch screen at 2am, but it was like a seance.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> That's weird. My set of S&H CCa also has one very microphonic tube - the other one is fine. I'm using Herbie's Rx tube dampeners and have not had any issues.


 
  Of all the CCa S&H's I have had which is over 40 + sets I have only had one or two sets extremely microphonic I will say something to twist your noodle a bit since I saw nightflight mentioned me .. I feel special I am still remembered HAHA.  Anyway microphonic tubes may not always be a bad thing some tubes are more or less microphonic and for purposes beyond being a preamp stage in a Amp such as the Lyr (solid state amp tube pre-amp design) depending on other uses that very Microphonic tube could be very tasty or not.. hehe. I will not explain how or why just kinda like to throw out tidbits to get everyone to think.. 
   
   
   
  §


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Will do.
> 
> So far, the OGs are still my favorites.  here's my list so far:
> 
> ...


 
  Cool thanks for the report


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Hey tube-heads, I still have some sets up for sale if anyone wants them. I dropped prices some from last time. I will cover shipping/fees in the continental US. Price is for a pair.
> 
> PM if you are interested.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Those USN-CEPs are a STEAL at that price!  I'd grab them myself if I didn't already have two pairs...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Yep, NOS. Dampeners don't seem to help a tap of the box. I just won't tap the box.
> 
> I'm done. Their amazing, even at low volume levels.  Haven't found anything their weak on. Yes they're expensive. All my other rolls have gone up on ebay to pay for them. I think I caught them at $240. Is that too much? It was my mouse that did it. ... actually touch screen at 2am, but it was like a seance.


 
  Are they Siemens & Halske CCas or Siemens CCas?  That seems like a really good price!


----------



## justie

Has anyone had experiences with these tubes? 

 Brimar CV2492 Vintage 1960's
 Amperex E88CC A-Frame Orange Label & Globe Logo
   
  Finally swapped out my 6BZ7 for the amperexs. Initial impressions, amperex are clearer sounding, wider and less frontal compared to 6BZ7 but the bass with amperex doesnt have as much impact as the stock 6BZ7.
   
  Edit: Amperex's are also livelier than stock but also not as lush. Treble has slightly more presence but mids are not as full as stock 6BZ7


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





justie said:


> Has anyone had experiences with these tubes?
> 
> Brimar CV2492 Vintage 1960's
> Amperex E88CC A-Frame Orange Label & Globe Logo
> ...


 
  How many hours do you have on the Amperexes?


----------



## toschek

Yes on both counts. I have both sets currently and they are both very nice. I'm selling the Amperex set right now because I just have too many tubes, and the Amperex 7308s that I ultimately settled on do the same thing as the a-frame only substantially better ... Like $200/pr better. 

The Brimar cv2492s are sick tubes. Definitely worth a look. They are very warm though (but not in a an annoying way -- kind of like a comfy sweater) so if that is not your thing you'll want to skip it.


----------



## justie

Hmm, i actually bought them second hand (third hand possibly) from someone on head-fi last year but never got the time and chance to try them out until today. In my Lyr, they have around 2 hours so far lol.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sceleratus said:


> Wait for more of Scott's review.
> 
> I don't want to be "The Guy"




OK guys, today I tried the RTC's with the LCD-3 on the Lyr (this is a Lyr thread after all - will try them on the Liquid Glass later). My technical evaluation is . . . "Wow!"

I don't believe the LCD's have ever sounded better on the Lyr:

1. Much smoother, richer presentation than the HD 800 and D2000. All the detail is there in each, but the LCD-3's are more musical, warmer; more natural sounding. These cans really love these tubes. I see why Sceleratus loves them so much with his LCD's - it is a great match.

2. Surprisingly (to me anyway), the soundstage is much bigger with the LCD-3 than with the HD 800. More "air" surrounding the instruments as well. The LCD sounds much more like an actual performance. I play a lot of baroque music in ensembles (on period instruments), and the LCD/RTC combo makes baroque strings, flutes and oboes sound more natural than just about anything else I've listened to lately. Very like an actual performance in a mid-sized venue (like a church). 

3. I do notice more high frequencies with the HD 800, but that's not to say the LCD's are rolled off. Rather, there is just a more natural "roundness" and sweetness to the sound. Both presentations are pleasant - the HD 800's are like a delicious ice-cold extra-dry vodka martini, while the LCD's are more like a delicious caramel candy apple. Both good but different (OK enough silly metaphors).

I had about given up using the LCD-3's with the Lyr, but the RTC tubes are going to change that.

Many thanks to Sceleratus for turning us on to these wonderful tubes!


----------



## tuna47

Are these good for a lyr and he500 phones AMPEREX "Bugle Boy" Type 6DJ8 / ECC88 Tubes
Please help just got the lyr


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Are these good for a lyr and he500 phones AMPEREX "Bugle Boy" Type 6DJ8 / ECC88 Tubes
> Please help just got the lyr


 
   
   
  Those are excellent tubes!  I don't have the HE500, but I have LCD-2s and the Bugle Boys sound fantastic!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> OK guys, today I tried the RTC's with the LCD-3 on the Lyr (this is a Lyr thread after all - will try them on the Liquid Glass later). My technical evaluation is . . . "Wow!"
> 
> I don't believe the LCD's have ever sounded better on the Lyr:
> 
> ...


 
  YES !!!
   
  I am not imaging things.
   
  I very much like your description of the highs "natural roundness"  They're all there (highs) but they don't pierce, thus overwhelm
  everything else in the composition.  I'm not a big baroque guy (more portly) but I love some of the Mozart Beethoven standards.  I've said this before.  It's like you are riding the bow across the strings.  Chilling.
   
  They are stone cold killer with classic rock.  Awesome with any guitar, Les Paul, Strat, Acoustic and vocals.  Live performances, which I normally don't like, are amazing.  Stuff you've never detected comes out of nowhere.
   
  It doesn't make sense to me why these valves sound so good.  They are ordinary in that they were made in an Amperex plant in Heerlen Netherlands (see Oskari, I got it right) they are a gold pin large O getter.  USN-CEP's / 6922 are large O's but these sound completely different.  They are the OG sound, on steroids.  I don't know if a bunch of French elves got summer work in Heerlen, don't care.  These are special.
   
  Put a few more hours on the 67's last night .... they are opening up even more.
   
  To use continue with another metaphor food metaphor...... The best peach pie you've ever tasted. And I know pie.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> YES !!!
> 
> I am not imaging things.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Now I'm really eager to hear mine...


----------



## nelamvr6

Guys, I found a great article that can help us understand the "Tube Magic":
   
http://lenardaudio.com/education/14_valve_amps_7.html


----------



## HK_sends

Hey guys,
   
  The fine folks at Tubemonger have some clarifications on the RTC tubes o' interest that you might find interesting:
   
  "Appears that we need to do it to correct tube information from time to time before it becomes a fact online. 
  
 For example: Revision is VR9 which makes these tubes from 1970s and not 1960s. BTW, Phillips Heerlen Holland or Armonk US and the RTC affiliate in France never made Dimple Disk Getter E188CC. So the Mullard chronology for Halo Getter/Dimple Disk getter does not apply. 1960s revisions should be VR5-VR7 etc.
  
 That being said, 1970s Heerlen E188CC tubes are first rate and one of our reference tubes. Price with this vendor in France is a bargain."
  
 Figures...I found I can't afford them and now they are declared a bargain...just my luck.
  
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Managed to pop for a couple of sets after all...only two left...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
PS - 1 Set of Lorenz 3-micas are now for sale.  I'm giving them up at the same price I bought them.  I put 1 hour on them.  They were bought from someone who didn't realize what he had.  The original vendor did not have test results on the tubes so they are a bit of a gamble but I confirmed they did work in the Lyr with no noise.  I listened to them using a laptop playing Flac files from Foobar into my Bifrost via USB and feeding the Lyr out to my LCD-2s.
   
Asking $100 plus $10 shipping/insurance/PayPal fees in the US.  Please PM me if interested.  First come, first served...  *SOLD!...*


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Managed to pop for a couple of sets after all...only two left...


 
  Not any more...


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Managed to pop for a couple of sets after all...only two left...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  winner winner
  chicken dinner


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> winner winner
> chicken dinner


 
  I actually have one more set...the one mentioned above... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## OldSkool

Just my luck...an hour after I pop for a set of '65 USN-CEP, a set of Lorenz 3-micas come up for sale.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Just my luck...an hour after I pop for a set of '65 USN-CEP, a set of Lorenz 3-micas come up for sale.


 
  Yeah, but you won't regret getting those USN-CEPs...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Just my luck...an hour after I pop for a set of '65 USN-CEP, a set of Lorenz 3-micas come up for sale.


 
  Apparently, his luck is still pretty good!
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Yeah, but you won't regret getting those USN-CEPs...


 
  He won't regret either of them...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Of course, that's IMHO...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Managed to pop for a couple of sets after all...only two left...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  PLEASE I WANT IT!!!!!!!


----------



## gmahler2u

Me and my luck..


----------



## OldSkool

Wow! My luck certainly changed for the better! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Maybe I should go and kiss my wife and see how lucky I can possibly get in one day!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> PLEASE I WANT IT!!!!!!!


 
  I'm really sorry, you missed by a few minutes...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Wow! My luck certainly changed for the better!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You might not want to press your luck too hard...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## gmahler2u

Although I feel Sickly Bad ..
   
  but no worries.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Me and my luck..


 
  Seriously, just keep a sharp eye on ebay...
  That's how I came across these.
   
  -HK sends


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> You might not want to press your luck too hard...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## sceleratus

Man.
   
  That was quite a valve scramble in 3 pages of posts !
   
  The leather was getting ripped open and the cabbage was flying.


----------



## HK_sends

Seems like everyone's luck is changing...for the better!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Man.
> 
> That was quite a valve scramble in 3 pages of posts !
> 
> The leather was getting ripped open and the cabbage was flying.


 
  Mmm!...coleslaw and leather!
   
  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Wow! My luck certainly changed for the better!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Good luck!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Man.
> 
> That was quite a valve scramble in 3 pages of posts !
> 
> The leather was getting ripped open and the cabbage was flying.


 

 I know! It reminded me of last year, when Schiit rolled out the SS Mojo and guys here were saying their goodbyes and offering up amazing tubes left and right!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Me and my luck..


 
   
   
  I feel your pain, I've been there...
   
  Don't feel too bad, there will be other tubes, other deals.


----------



## nelamvr6

It's Tunemania!  It's a Tubarama!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I feel your pain, I've been there...
> 
> Don't feel too bad, there will be other tubes, other deals.


 
  Don't worry...his luck changed for the better due to a generous gesture by Oldskool! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

I am nervously awaiting everyones review of the RTC's
   
  I hope ya'll like them.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I am nervously awaiting everyones review of the RTC's
> 
> I hope ya'll like them.


 
  Just keep an eye out for people at your door with torches and a nasty disposition...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lorenz-Stuttgart-3-Mica-ECC85-match-pair-E88CC-ECC88-PCC88-6DJ8-7DJ8-6922-CCa-/190831479793?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item2c6e714bf1
   
_*AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Oh well...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  Did you ever have one of _*THOSE*_ days?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I feel your pain, I've been there...
> 
> Don't feel too bad, there will be other tubes, other deals.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lorenz-Stuttgart-3-Mica-ECC85-match-pair-E88CC-ECC88-PCC88-6DJ8-7DJ8-6922-CCa-/190831479793?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item2c6e714bf1
> 
> _*AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*_
> 
> ...


 
   
  Those are mine, i don't hope to get anywhere near the asking price though, it's more a tactic to make people think "wait a minute, what are these?" and do some research.
   
  If i got near £100 i'd be happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm getting itchy tube rolling fingers again...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Those are mine, i don't hope to get anywhere near the asking price though, it's more a tactic to make people think "wait a minute, what are these?" and do some research.
> 
> If i got near £100 i'd be happy
> 
> ...


 
  The "ARGH!" was from the fact that I spent all my extra cash on tubes already. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Interesting.
   
Tubemonger seems to like date codes when they work in his favor.
   
   
 Following the usual Philips Codes.
  
 The tubes in his ad are listed as MINT NOS Rare 1961 Mullard CV4035
 And the etched date code is "BoxSlash" "1" "3" "3"   meaning
 A Mullard Whyteleafe “A” plant
 1961
 March
 3rd week.
  
 Yet, If you look at the yellow box behind the tube in his photo it says "1971"
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_CV4035_NOS_NIB_1961_Prem_CV4004_Whyteleafe_p/2050mz.htm
  
 What decade is the "1" from ?
  
  
 On April 20th I wrote Brent Jessee asking about the silk screen codes on the RTC's.  Here is his reply:
  
 [size=11pt]Hi,[/size]
   
[size=11pt]Thanks for your request.  The 7612 is actually the date the label was printed, 12th week of 1976!  These tubes were in storage for 10 years before RTC purchased them, or else RTC had them in storage for 10 years before putting the label on.  The large halo getter was discontinued about 1969 so these are 1965 or 1966 tubes.[/size]
   
[size=11pt]I have a matched pair with the green RTC label like yours, with the numbers 7547 and 7637, so it looks like RTC was using up their 1960s stock during the 1970s, as Heerlen was not producing these tubes by that time.  Mine are 1964 and 1965 stock.  I also have a matched pair with the white RTC label, and the number 7714, and they are 1966 stock.[/size]
   
[size=11pt]Either one of these pairs are $350.00 USD plus shipping, tested, and guaranteed.[/size]
   
So we'll let Tubemonger and Brent duke it out as to what decade valves with Philips codes were made.


----------



## nelamvr6

OK, unfortunately the Bugle Boy Small Man tubes I was trying are having noise issues.  I'm not gonna rank these tubes based on non-working samples.
   
  Now I'm gonna start burning-in my "safety" pair of Orange Globes...


----------



## HK_sends

Without seeing all the data on the boxes and the tubes, I would hesitate to make a call...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> OK, unfortunately the Bugle Boy Small Man tubes I was trying are having noise issues.  I'm not gonna rank these tubes based on non-working samples.
> 
> Now I'm gonna start burning-in my "safety" pair of Orange Globes...


 
  That sucks!  Are they noisy with dampers on them?
   
  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus




----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


>


 

 Is that your next tubes?  I thought you're stop buy tubes?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> That sucks!  Are they noisy with dampers on them?
> 
> -HK sends


 
  Yeah, I always have dampers on...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


>


 
  And Tubemonger did request I pass on this reply:
   
 "http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_CV4035_NOS_NIB_1961_Prem_CV4004_Whyteleafe_p/2050mz.htm
  
 - Read the listing carefully. "*TC date code corresponds to the acceptance year of 1962, but the tubes are from 1961 production. Various stock dates on gummed ROAC and REME labels on boxes are from later dates and NOT the production date."
   
  1971 labels are from periodic REME inspection. There are labels are even from later date. Whyteleafe plant cease production in 1960s anyways."
   
_*I don't think anyone has any nefarious intent; it's all part of good folks helping good folks.  Let's be thankful that we aren't left to our own devices or we'd all be in a pickle...*_
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Yeah, I always have dampers on...


 
  Yeah, me too.  You did say "dampers", not "diapers" didn't you...?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yeah, me too.  You did say "dampers", not "diapers" didn't you...?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




   
  Yeah, not quite that old...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Yeah, not quite that old...


 
  Hey, I resemble that remark! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Nic Rhodes

These were the sort of 'budget' tubes I was talking about. These are just the common Amperex PQ 6DJ8 / ECC88s from Holland (£15 pair, about $23 before P and P (was free in UK)) but I find the 6DJ8 / ECC88 Mullards from England generally easier to find over here. I wonder whether this type of tube is just easier to find this side of the pond and hence the difference usage.
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMPEREX-ECC88-6DJ8-VALVES-TESTED-HEERLEN-MATCHED-CODES-/380631517799?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item589f680a67


----------



## Nic Rhodes

well those 6 pairs went quickly!


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> These are just the common Amperex PQ 6DJ8 / ECC88s from Holland -- -- but I find the 6DJ8 / ECC88 Mullards from England generally easier to find over here. I wonder whether this type of tube is just easier to find this side of the pond and hence the difference usage.


 
   
  The common _Amperex 6DJ8_ is only common in the US because _Amperex_ was a brand for the US market. In Europe, the common _Philips ECC88_ is the exact same tube (when both are Heerlen-made).
   
  In most European countries, you can expect to find the tube branded either _Philips_, _Miniwatt_ or _Philips Miniwatt_. Some markets had their local Philips brands such as _Valvo_ and _Mullard_. Mullard, of course, also made many ECC88s in their UK factories. It's quite understandable that these are easy to find in their home market.
   
  Some examples:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Holland-6DJ8-ECC88-matched-Quad-Tubes-fr-Audio-fr-sale-NOS-NIB-Valves-/271191067346
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/ECC88-Philips-NOS-NIB-GAA-Code-Oldest-Production-20-20mA-15mA-100-4619-/221204626105
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-MINIWATT-ECC88-6DJ8-TESTED-ON-AMPLITREX-/380465657401
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-RTC-PHILIPS-ECC88-6DJ8-TESTED-ON-AMPLITREX-/380465656129
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ECC88-MULLARD-HOLLAND-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-A13-/390571884370
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/ECC88-Valvo-NOS-NIB-tube-Roehre-unused-E88CC-/290839147006


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> -- -- they were made in an Amperex plant in Heerlen Netherlands (see Oskari, I got it right) -- --


 
   
  Since you asked (kind of). You got Heerlen right. Good job! On the other hand, for reasons unknown, you wrote _Amperex_ when you should have written _Philips_. The Amperex receiving tube plant was in Hicksville, Long Island, New York.


----------



## mhamel

I have to say, big thumbs-up on the Tungsram ECC85s.   Not the widest soundstage I've ever heard, but still very good, and great depth.   They're still burning in but I'm very happy with what I've heard so far.
   
  Bonus, they're dirt cheap right now.
   
      -Mike
   
   
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Well, I got a set of Tungsram ECC85s today and color me impressed!  I tried Russian 6N1Ps before and wasn't happy with the sound, but these sound pretty awesome!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Today I rolled the RTC tubes into the Liquid Glass amp. Surprise - with the LCD-3's - bleh, nothing good.

With the HD800's - awesome; a jaw-dropper. Precise (all frequencies), plenty of air and soundstage and musicality too. Really a beautiful match. This is what the HD800's are all about.

It's amazing how different and opposite the results are between the Lyr and LG with the same 2 phones.

I'll shut up now since this is a Lyr, and not an LG, thread. Thought you guys would want to hear about this though.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> I have to say, big thumbs-up on the Tungsram ECC85s.   Not the widest soundstage I've ever heard, but still very good, and great depth.   They're still burning in but I'm very happy with what I've heard so far.
> 
> Bonus, they're dirt cheap right now.
> 
> -Mike


 
  Yeah, they give a very "natural" sound the the instruments and vocals but the sound stage is a bit narrow (imagine hearing music in a lounge or tavern vs. a music hall).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Today I rolled the RTC tubes into the Liquid Glass amp. Surprise - with the LCD-3's - bleh, nothing good.
> 
> With the HD800's - awesome; a jaw-dropper. Precise (all frequencies), plenty of air and soundstage and musicality too. Really a beautiful match. This is what the HD800's are all about.
> 
> ...


 
  It is interesting to hear how the same tubes compare in different amps.  It's kind of a bummer to collect all these great tubes for the Lyr, then change to a different amp and find that the "great" tubes aren't so great for it.
  Part of the hobby, I guess...or Jason is using some kind of magic pixie-schiit dust to make the tubes sound great...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Since you asked (kind of). You got Heerlen right. Good job! On the other hand, for reasons unknown, you wrote _Amperex_ when you should have written _Philips_. The Amperex receiving tube plant was in Hicksville, Long Island, New York.


 
  I have a solution.
   
  I will stick with "A company in North America. " and "A company in Europe"


----------



## R Scott Ireland

hk_sends said:


> It is interesting to hear how the same tubes compare in different amps.  It's kind of a bummer to collect all these great tubes for the Lyr, then change to a different amp and find that the "great" tubes aren't so great for it.
> Part of the hobby, I guess...or Jason is using some kind of magic pixie-schiit dust to make the tubes sound great...
> 
> Cheers!
> ...




Ah, but the RTC tubes DO sound great in both amps, just with different cans!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Today I rolled the RTC tubes into the Liquid Glass amp. Surprise - with the LCD-3's - bleh, nothing good.
> 
> With the HD800's - awesome; a jaw-dropper. Precise (all frequencies), plenty of air and soundstage and musicality too. Really a beautiful match. This is what the HD800's are all about.
> 
> ...


 
  Sounds like a win - win to me.
  It's about the music.
   
  Thinking...
  How would you compare RTC-LYR-LCD3  to RTC-LG-HD800
   
  I like "jaw-dropper"


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Ah, but the RTC tubes DO sound great in both amps, just with different cans!


 
  Ah, I see.  But for me it matters since I only have one set 'o cans...LCD-2s.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Ah, but the RTC tubes DO sound great in both amps, just with different cans!


 

 R Scott, that's a good point. I wonder how the RTC's sound using the Lyr and HE-500?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> R Scott, that's a good point. I wonder how the RTC's sound using the Lyr and HE-500?


 
  To butt in.....
   
  I've been under the impression that the HE-500's and the LCD's are similar cans, antidotally.
  I'd guess they'll sound great.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I have a solution.
> 
> I will stick with "A company in North America. " and "A company in Europe"


 
   
  O.K.
   
  If anybody's interested, the former Amperex property in Hicksville seems to be available for lease: http://www.realtagroup.com/sites/default/files/230%20Duffy%20Ave%20Property%20Flyer_REalta%20Group.pdf





   
  This is where the 6922s and 7308s with the ∗ factory code (or the military CEP code) were made.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sceleratus said:


> Sounds like a win - win to me.
> It's about the music.
> 
> Thinking...
> ...




They were both excellent, just different. The RTC tubes with LCD's on the Lyr were very liquid, "round" and slightly warm; thoroughly musical and enjoyable. With the same tubes, the HD800's on the LG gave a brighter sound, but much more balanced and musical than they were with the Lyr. Also extremely enjoyable. The 800's were just OK on the Lyr with these tubes. The LCD's did not sound good at all on the LG with the RTC's - narrow, funky soundstage and veiled.

So, to sum up, I loved the RTC tubes with the LCD-3 on the Lyr, and with the HD800 on the LG. it is a tie in terms of quality of presentation, response across the spectrum, soundstage/"air" (maybe just a tad more with the HD800+LG) and plain old musical enjoyment.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

hk_sends said:


> Ah, I see.  But for me it matters since I only have one set 'o cans...LCD-2s.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...




Point taken! The RTC's should sound great with the LCD-2's, if the LCD-3's are similar. Perhaps a little darker sound with the LCD-2's? (Don't have them so I can't really say).


----------



## R Scott Ireland

oldskool said:


> R Scott, that's a good point. I wonder how the RTC's sound using the Lyr and HE-500?




I've never listened to the HE-500's, so can't say. Maybe someone else?


----------



## RADIO-COLLEC

audiophil hello dear, I can do a little message on your forum or I perused many messages.
 some listener my buy many of my tubes that I thank the pass.
 unfortunately I still have more E188CC/7822.
 in seeking better can I find other E188CC RTC another series.
 I'd joined the sales link below:
NEW TUBE E188CC / 7441 RTC
NEW TUBE E188CC / 8306 RTC
   
  thank you for your attention, sorry for my bad english


----------



## BobJS

I just ordered a HD-800 so I could have a little shoot-off against the T1.  I'm thinking of starting off with the Amperex OGs on the Lyr.  I may have to go through all my tubes again until I find the best pairing.


----------



## ilikepooters

Well i got a bit bored...
   

   
  What could that tube be?

   
  Yes it's Tungsram E80CC.
   
  I only had 2 cheap chinese socket savers on hand, and needed to stack both to make the adaptor, so no listening impressions yet because i can only use 1 tube until i get more socket savers.
   
  If Schiit says "Don't use them, wrong pin-out" it can probably be made possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Here is "Ghetto socket saver/converter"
   

   

   
  P.S. Don't try this at home, you could end up blowing Schiit up.


----------



## NightFlight

nelamvr6 said:


> Are they Siemens & Halske CCas or Siemens CCas?  That seems like a really good price!





They're S&H cca's!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> They're S&H cca's!


 
  Nice!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





radio-collec said:


> audiophil hello dear, I can do a little message on your forum or I perused many messages.
> some listener my buy many of my tubes that I thank the pass.
> unfortunately I still have more E188CC/7822.
> in seeking better can I find other E188CC RTC another series.
> ...


 
  Hey, thanks for the links!
  
  Guys, this is the guy who had the great prices on those RTC tubes.


----------



## jellofund

Received my Tubemonger socketsavers and Brimar 6BQ7A's this morning so looking foward to some tube rolling action this evening.

The socketsavers are excellent and the Brimars look tobein fantastic shape - the boxes look like they've literally come fresh from the factory. I'll probably try them after an hour or so's warm up and again after they've been run in for 12hrs ish to see if I noticed as big a transformation as ilikepootersdid. Should be fun


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





radio-collec said:


> audiophil hello dear, I can do a little message on your forum or I perused many messages.
> some listener my buy many of my tubes that I thank the pass.
> unfortunately I still have more E188CC/7822.
> in seeking better can I find other E188CC RTC another series.
> ...


 

 what is the difference between two tubes?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> They're S&H cca's!


 

 +1 Nice!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Hey, thanks for the links!
> 
> Guys, this is the guy who had the great prices on those RTC tubes.


 

 did you buy the RTC tubes?  If I have money I'll get that tubes later.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> what is the difference between two tubes?


 
_*865*_.  8306 - 7441 = 865 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> _*865*_.  8306 - 7441 = 865
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  OH. so difference of 865


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> OH. so difference of 865


 
  That was my weak attempt at a joke...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





radio-collec said:


> audiophil hello dear, I can do a little message on your forum or I perused many messages.
> some listener my buy many of my tubes that I thank the pass.
> unfortunately I still have more E188CC/7822.
> in seeking better can I find other E188CC RTC another series.
> ...


 
   
  Can someone decipher the production codes listed?
   
  7441 VR7 F3K2
  8306 VR1 R2J1
   
   
  Thanks,
  ckc


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Can someone decipher the production codes listed?
> 
> 7441 VR7 F3K2
> 8306 VR1 R2J1
> ...


 
  If i have it right...
   
  The 7441's were made by La Radiotechnique, Suresnes
  The 8306's were made by Mullard, Mitcham
   
  I used the following link: http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm
   
  I've probably got it wrapped around my neck.
   
  *EDIT* just to explain myself a bit more...
   
  F3K2 = F (La Radiotechnique, Suresnes) 3 (Year, 1963, or 1973?) K (Month, November) 2 (Week 2)
  R2J1 = R (Mullard, Mitcham) 2 (Year, again, '62 or '72?) J (Month, October) 1 (Week 1)


----------



## Flisker

So time has come and I rolled in *Novosibirsk 6N1P-VI* from ilikepooters, listening to them for about 2 hours now and so far they are best tube I have heard paired with my T1's. 
   
  Better detail and bass impact are first things I can notice over Voskhod 6N1P.
   
  Thanks once more man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Btw, how long you had them in, are they already burned in ? (If u remember about them)
   
  Oh and I feel that pictures works better than words 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   

   
  This is kind of effect I expect from my headphones and it's static electricity


----------



## RADIO-COLLEC

Still me boys!!!

 further information that'll probably be happy.
 I have around 30,000 tubes that I am trying to sort and sell.
 with full refrences and manufacturer that I have not sold.
 so if you have tubes that you made ​​me look forward your request with pictures if you have.
 you can find my email address at the bottom of ads sales I made.

 cordially all


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





flisker said:


> So time has come and I rolled in *Novosibirsk 6N1P-VI* from ilikepooters, listening to them for about 2 hours now and so far they are best tube I have heard paired with my T1's.
> 
> Better detail and bass impact are first things I can notice over Voskhod 6N1P.
> 
> ...


 
  I only put 2-3 hours on them, treble seemed a little too laid back for me.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I only put 2-3 hours on them, treble seemed a little too laid back for me.


 
   
  Great, thx.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





radio-collec said:


> Still me boys!!!
> 
> further information that'll probably be happy.
> I have around 30,000 tubes that I am trying to sort and sell.
> ...


 
  Great, Thanks!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> did you buy the RTC tubes?  If I have money I'll get that tubes later.


 
  Yep, I bought two pairs.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Burn in time can vary, some people think 100-200 hours for complete burn in, but on those Brimar you bought i noticed a big change with just 12 hours of burn in, i just left them over night playing pink noise on some old junk headphones. They started off muddy, harsh treble and pretty congested, but everything opened up, should get better with more hours on them.
> 
> Voskhod 6N1P opened right up after an overnight burn in session, wish i hadn't given them away now. My Mullard 6BQ7A (fakes) sound spectacular after only 18 hours of burn in.


 

 I'm listening to the Brimar tubes after approx. 90 mins burn in and I can see why you were underwhelmed by them to begin with. Everything sounds horribly mushy and cluttered and the mids seem to have popped out for a tea break! Female vocals are particularly lifeless.
   
  Should be interesting to see how things transform (touch wood) over the coming hours!


----------



## sceleratus

I have no experience with the RTC posted as made in the UK and France.
  I would like to see a picture of the getters.
   
  The French set is intriguing.  I would personally pass on the UK set.


----------



## tjl5709

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> They're S&H cca's!


 
   
  And how do they make your 800's sound?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I have no experience with the RTC posted as made in the UK and France.
> I would like to see a picture of the getters.
> 
> The French set is intriguing.  I would personally pass on the UK set.


 
  Quoting myself...
   
  New info from ckc.
   
  He asked the seller...
  The RTC's from Suresnes FR are dimple getters.
  I would pass.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Yep, I bought two pairs.


 

 cool deal!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Yep, I bought two pairs.


----------



## NightFlight

mrscary said:


> Of all the CCa S&H's I have had which is over 40 + sets I have only had one or two sets extremely microphonic I will say something to twist your noodle a bit since I saw nightflight mentioned me .. I feel special I am still remembered HAHA.  Anyway microphonic tubes may not always be a bad thing some tubes are more or less microphonic and for purposes beyond being a preamp stage in a Amp such as the Lyr (solid state amp tube pre-amp design) depending on other uses that very Microphonic tube could be very tasty or not.. hehe. I will not explain how or why just kinda like to throw out tidbits to get everyone to think..
> 
> 
> 
> §





40+ pairs? Who did you rob/kill? It suspiciously sounds like you might have played out my fantasy of finding a 100 lot box at an auction... and nobody recognized them for what they were. You learned German and browsed their classifieds to find them!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> 40+ pairs? Who did you rob/kill? It suspiciously sounds like you might have played out my fantasy of finding a 100 lot box at an auction... and nobody recognized them for what they were. You learned German and browsed their classifieds to find them!


 
  how much did you pay for your CCa?


----------



## nelamvr6

OK, rocking the Orange Globes, and thinking these RTC tubes have got their work cut out for them.  In my mind it'll be hard to best the OGs at all, let alone wipe the floor with them.
   
  The OGs have it all, everything most who have turned to tubes are looking for!   The bass is strong and nimble, the treble is sparkly and smooth, refined.  And, oh, those mids!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I am going to listen to these RTCs with an open mind, but as of right this second, I'm a bit skeptical....


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> OK, rocking the Orange Globes, and thinking these RTC tubes have got their work cut out for them.  In my mind it'll be hard to best the OGs at all, let alone wipe the floor with them.
> 
> The OGs have it all, everything most who have turned to tubes are looking for!   The bass is strong and nimble, the treble is sparkly and smooth, refined.  And, oh, those mids!
> 
> ...


 
  Had 2 sets.
   
  Gone


----------



## jellofund

Quote:


ilikepooters said:


> Burn in time can vary, some people think 100-200 hours for complete burn in, but on those Brimar you bought i noticed a big change with just 12 hours of burn in, i just left them over night playing pink noise on some old junk headphones. They started off muddy, harsh treble and pretty congested, but everything opened up, should get better with more hours on them.


   
   
  Quote:


ilikepooters said:


> Pairs of Brimar 6BQ7A are back on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-NIB-Pair-Brimar-6BQ7A-Box-Plate-Vacuum-Tubes-/161011320189?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item257d05c57d
> 
> I've burned mine in for 12 hours or so and already sound fantastic. Really recommend these if you're a bass head. Sounded a bit congested and muddy before burn-in and treble was harsh, i can only imagine these will get even better as time goes on.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I'm listening to the Brimar tubes after approx. 90 mins burn in and I can see why you were underwhelmed by them to begin with. Everything sounds horribly mushy and cluttered and the mids seem to have popped out for a tea break! Female vocals are particularly lifeless.
> 
> Should be interesting to see how things transform (touch wood) over the coming hours!


 
   
  (very early impressions so take with a large pinch of salt!)
   
  I just left these running some white / pink noise and frequency sweeps for a few hours and then spent the last hour or so listening to a wide selection of tracks (acoustic, rock, classical, r&b etc.).
   
  I'm not sure whether they should be showing much of an improvement so soon but after 6 hours or so burn in to my ears these tubes sound nothing like they did just a few hours ago. Much more open sounding now, mids are present and correct (vocals have improved immensely), great bass, pleasant treble (I don't like too much). Whilst I hoped they'd show some improvement I really didn't expect anything so marked at this point.
   
  They are also a lot less noisy than the stock tubes when I'm listening to my D2000s and the bass on those phones, which has a tendency to get flabby, is noticeably tighter and better defined. The HD600s are on another level and seem very well matched with these tubes.
   
  If they improve some more then I'll be very pleased indeed, but if not I still think they sound killer for 15 bucks. The incoming Bugle Boys will have a hard act to follow I reckon


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Had 2 sets.
> 
> Gone


 
   
   
  Well, I'm looking forward to this!  If they're really that good, they really must be special!
   
  But I'm afraid that they'll arrive while I'm out of town, it'll probably be June before I can start the shoot out...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> (very early impressions so take with a large pinch of salt!)
> 
> I just left these running some white / pink noise and frequency sweeps for a few hours and then spent the last hour or so listening to a wide selection of tracks (acoustic, rock, classical, r&b etc.).
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I'm really not surprised!
   
  One of the most common things I notice with green tubes is congestion, and that sounds a lot like what you were describing when you first listened.
   
  It is kind of amazing how tubes can change, isn't it?
   
  Burn in is kind of controversial here on Head-Fi, some people chalk it all up to placebo.  But with respect to tubes, it's definitely real!


----------



## sceleratus

Real.
   
  +1


----------



## GrindingThud

Tektronix aged tubes to get through all that changing nonsense....I find these PQs to be quite nice:




sceleratus said:


> Real.
> 
> +1


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Tektronix aged tubes to get through all that changing nonsense....I find these PQs to be quite nice:


 
   
   
  Nice!


----------



## Radioking59

I got a replacement 68 OG from Mercedesman today. One of the tubes I originally got was very noisy. I put about 30-40 hours on the originals and only sent one back as mercedesman said he recorded the values. Should one tube having more hours than the other be a cause for concern?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> I got a replacement 68 OG from Mercedesman today. One of the tubes I originally got was very noisy. I put about 30-40 hours on the originals and only sent one back as mercedesman said he recorded the values. Should one tube having more hours than the other be a cause for concern?


 
   
  Probably not.  Their life is rated at something like 5,000 hours.


----------



## billerb1

A shout-out to HK_sends...the tube doctor with a heart of gold.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> A shout-out to HK_sends...the tube doctor with a heart of gold.


 
  Whoa, hey, wait a minute...!  I don't want you ruining my rep...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## RADIO-COLLEC

Hello, a little message information for all my people who buy my tubes e188cc rtc.
 Packages have had success with ship and you will have them in the next week.
 I wish you good use.
 cordially


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> They are also a lot less noisy than the stock tubes when I'm listening to my D2000s and the bass on those phones, which has a tendency to get flabby, is noticeably tighter and better defined. The HD600s are on another level and seem very well matched with these tubes.
> If they improve some more then I'll be very pleased indeed, but if not I still think they sound killer for 15 bucks. The incoming Bugle Boys will have a hard act to follow I reckon


 
   
  Not really. The BB's will leave you surprised. Their balance I find to be quite good. They seem to get rid of a lot of that tube "cotton in your ears" veil. The OGs have a lot of that too. The BB's less so with a good sound. I found them really hard to beat... until the S&H Cca's.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> how much did you pay for your CCa?


 
   
  Too much apparently. ~$250 for the pair. But its Mr. Scary that is sitting on 40 pairs. That's $10k. I don't think I would invest that much unless I was looking to make money, since I'm not even certain about the tube thing. I may be turning to the dark side in the future. I have a feeling transistors can be done right.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





tjl5709 said:


> And how do they make your 800's sound?


 
   
  Well, the 800's are faithful to what you put into them. But I believe they help to leverage their ability with this rig.
   
  The sound stage is brilliant. Wide without being diffuse. The bottom end is present and tight. The mids are lively and accurate. The highs are airy without being dry. Nothing stands out as incorrect. Bad recordings sound terrible, good ones sound great! Their still breaking in, but entirely listenable. At first they didn't sound bad - just a bit fake. Now their just becoming more natural as time progresses. Nay sayer's will say... its your brain adjusting. Could be.  Right now just trying out 24/96 Dark side of the moon. I've heard the Album a million times.  I normally can't stomach it anymore, but its a good reference. It has to be pretty special for me to enjoy it anymore. 
   
  Previous postings for this tube have gone on about its 'Holographic' nature. I think its just accurate. The bloomy boom tube sound isn't as pronounced, so it allows the natural staging to just happen. That's my two cents. If your looking for a big impactful bottom end, this is not the tube your looking for. The BBs are better in that regard. 
   
  The S&H Cca's have nothing is emphasized. Eg the bass guitar in the opening segment of DSM 'Time' on some systems can flap your pant legs. While (really) fun, I think those systems are a bit unbalanced. This tube doesn't put the 800s down there. So its not one for the bass heads.
   
  Otherwise, nothing catches my attention as being wrong. That's big for me because I'm overly critical. It gets in the way of my enjoyment.
   
  I'm not getting the sound stage you would get from a fantastic set of speakers. I hear 800 users even going so far as giving up their speaker rig. Bah. That's total crap. Their just headphones. Nice, but ultimately can't touch a properly matched room. Almost all recordings are made for a frontal presentation... anyhow. I digress.
   
  But I'm still scaling them. Haven't peaked yet.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





radio-collec said:


> Hello, a little message information for all my people who buy my tubes e188cc rtc.
> Packages have had success with ship and you will have them in the next week.
> I wish you good use.
> cordially


 
   
   
  Thanks!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Too much apparently. ~$250 for the pair. But its Mr. Scary that is sitting on 40 pairs. That's $10k. I don't think I would invest that much unless I was looking to make money, since I'm not even certain about the tube thing. I may be turning to the dark side in the future. I have a feeling transistors can be done right.


 
  I have no doubt that transistors can sound really good!
  
  I think that MrScary has made a fairly good investment.  Those tubes are only going to grow more rare, and their p;rice will no doubt go up.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Too much apparently. ~$250 for the pair. But its Mr. Scary that is sitting on 40 pairs. That's $10k. I don't think I would invest that much unless I was looking to make money, since I'm not even certain about the tube thing. I may be turning to the dark side in the future. I have a feeling transistors can be done right.


 

 WOW!  I paid my Siemens ecc188 for $300.  you paid much less.  good deal!


----------



## NightFlight

sceleratus said:


> Real.
> 
> +1





If I have it right, the crystalline structure of all the conductors in the signal and power path adjust over time to the flow of electrons. Like rocks giving way to water in a stream. The characteristics change with time. Same with all electronic components, as they are made up of electron carrying materials. This is 'burn-in'. 

One would believe that due to their nature, tubes would be less susceptible to this effect, but in truth it would prove they are simply more sensitive to their physical electron carrying components going through changes and amplify that. 

But... I could just be blowing smoke.


----------



## NightFlight

nelamvr6 said:


> I have no doubt that transistors can sound really good!
> 
> 
> I think that MrScary has made a fairly good investment.  Those tubes are only going to grow more rare, and their p;rice will no doubt go up.




He's a hoarder. I'll have no sympaty if he trips and falls on his box of tubes.


----------



## mhamel

Jellofund,
   
  I'm glad I read this... I picked up a couple of pairs of those Brimars as well.    I rolled the first pair in and was completely unimpressed, enough so where I took them out after less than an hour and figured I'd sell or give them away as a bust.    After reading your post this morning I rolled them back in and have been letting them play.   Wow, what a difference.    They've opened right up, vocals are much better, imaging is outstanding both left/right and front/back.   Bass is decent, though not quite as deep as I'd like.   Mids and highs are smoothing out - and the highs aren't too overpowering, which I like.  Still a bit of congestion when things get complex, but for a $15 pair of tubes I am very impressed.
   
  Currently listening to them through a pair of M-Audio CX-5 powered monitors with my Lyr as a preamp.   
   
  Thanks,
    -Mike
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





jellofund said:


> (very early impressions so take with a large pinch of salt!)
> 
> I just left these running some white / pink noise and frequency sweeps for a few hours and then spent the last hour or so listening to a wide selection of tracks (acoustic, rock, classical, r&b etc.).
> 
> ...


----------



## nelamvr6

I can't remember who recommended it, it was someone in this thread, but it was pink noise for burn in.  I tried it, and it really works well!  
   
  Just let it play overnight, all day while you're at work, after 24 hours you could very well find your tube's sq has changed.


----------



## NightFlight

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1-Pair-6N23P-EV-Cryoset-6DJ8-6N1P-/221219466785


Shameless plug.


----------



## NightFlight

nelamvr6 said:


> I can't remember who recommended it, it was someone in this thread, but it was pink noise for burn in.  I tried it, and it really works well!
> 
> Just let it play overnight, all day while you're at work, after 24 hours you could very well find your tube's sq has changed.





pink noise reco recordings are hard to find online. I had to resort to piracy. gasp.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> pink noise reco recordings are hard to find online. I had to resort to piracy. gasp.


 
  I just downloaded the 15 minute pink noise mp3 from here:  http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_pinknoise.php  and burned it to a CD.  When I want to burn something in, I just put my CD player on repeat.  Works a treat!


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Jellofund,
> 
> I'm glad I read this... I picked up a couple of pairs of those Brimars as well.    I rolled the first pair in and was completely unimpressed, enough so where I took them out after less than an hour and figured I'd sell or give them away as a bust.    After reading your post this morning I rolled them back in and have been letting them play.   Wow, what a difference.    They've opened right up, vocals are much better, imaging is outstanding both left/right and front/back.   Bass is decent, though not quite as deep as I'd like.   Mids and highs are smoothing out - and the highs aren't too overpowering, which I like.  Still a bit of congestion when things get complex, but for a $15 pair of tubes I am very impressed.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Good to hear that you're enjoying them Mike!
   
  To be honest if I hadn't read ilikepooters post re. burning them in mine would have most likely have been yanked and gathering dust by now.
   
  I think mine are still audibly changing (10 hrs now). Tonally they don't seem quite as sweet as they did last night & slightly brasher sounding but could just be my imagination.
   
  I still can't get over them only costing 15 bucks for the pair though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I'm really not surprised!
> 
> One of the most common things I notice with green tubes is congestion, and that sounds a lot like what you were describing when you first listened.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It really is. With headphones part of me still thinks that a lot of the changes I notice are my ears adjusting more than anything else. I had read too many posts saying burn in occurs with tubes for me to dismiss it, so was expecting to at least notice some subtle changes taking place. The thing that I really wasn't expecting was the extent to which things changed between my initial and second listen though. The difference was as clear as day and if I was doing this blindfold I'd swear that either something in the listening change or the tubes themselves had been swapped out between listens.
   
  Certainly makes for interesting listening and I guess all part of the fun of new tubes.
   
  Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Not really. The BB's will leave you surprised. Their balance I find to be quite good. They seem to get rid of a lot of that tube "cotton in your ears" veil. The OGs have a lot of that too. The BB's less so with a good sound. I found them really hard to beat... until the S&H Cca's.


 
   
  I certainly hope so! Right now the Lyr + Brimars are the benchmark as my cans are sounding as good as I've heard them, which makes it difficult for me to imagine something much 'better' sounding right now. I guess that's one of the good things about starting off with inexpensive tubes as (hopefully) with each upgrade you get an appreciably better sound quality.
   
  Re. the S&H CCA's.....shhhhh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (my wallet's still recovering from the last couple of weeks hammering)


----------



## mhamel

So far, they just keep getting better.   The imaging, at least through these speakers, is outstanding.   Without inciting a debate, I'll say that there are things that I believe will change with burn-in, and there are things I do not believe will change.    Tubes are definitely on the list of things I believe for burn-in, I'm just not used to such a drastic change, especially in a short time.   It seems to me, at least, to be far too much of a change to attribute to just getting used to the sound.
   
  Even in the past couple of hours, I've noticed a change for the better in the bass, too.
   
  I've got them playing while I work, and have been cycling through quite a few music genres, as I usually do.   Jazz, Acoustic, Blues, Alternative, Metal, Soul and some Hip-Hop, so far.
   
   
      -Mike
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Good to hear that you're enjoying them Mike!
> 
> To be honest if I hadn't read ilikepooters post re. burning them in mine would have most likely have been yanked and gathering dust by now.
> 
> ...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> So far, they just keep getting better.   The imaging, at least through these speakers, is outstanding.   Without inciting a debate, I'll say that there are things that I believe will change with burn-in, and there are things I do not believe will change.    Tubes are definitely on the list of things I believe for burn-in, I'm just not used to such a drastic change, especially in a short time.   It seems to me, at least, to be far too much of a change to attribute to just getting used to the sound.
> 
> Even in the past couple of hours, I've noticed a change for the better in the bass, too.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Well remember, tubes have physical structures, almost all made of metal, that we can actually see.  Transistors and IC chips have physical structures that one would need a microscope to see.
   
  It's not that hard to believe that all those metal structures will change somewhat given the heat generated inside that glass envelope.  Additionally, quite a few of those metal structures have been coated with chemicals designed to achieve a specific end.  Those chemicals will also likely go through some changes after time when subjected to the heat inside the tube.
   
  But the proof is definitely in the pudding.  I have been skeptical of the burn-in phenomenon to some degree or other most of my adult life.  But after hearing with my own ears the differences that can develop, I am absolutely convinced that tubes definitely burn-in.
   
  We can argue about enjoy a frank discussion about semiconductors, but tubes definitely burn-in.


----------



## mhamel

Agreed 100% about tubes, especially given not just the metallurgy but the chemistry, the age, etc.    I would also agree in believing that any component that goes through heating/cooling cycles that can affect its material properties can change over time.    
   
  Just decoded the dates on the Brimars... looks like 3rd week of April, 1967 on the pairs I picked up.
   
   
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Well remember, tubes have physical structures, almost all made of metal, that we can actually see.  Transistors and IC chips have physical structures that one would need a microscope to see.
> 
> It's not that hard to believe that all those metal structures will change somewhat given the heat generated inside that glass envelope.  Additionally, quite a few of those metal structures have been coated with chemicals designed to achieve a specific end.  Those chemicals will also likely go through some changes after time when subjected to the heat inside the tube.
> 
> ...


----------



## toschek

nelamvr6 said:


> I can't remember who recommended it, it was someone in this thread, but it was pink noise for burn in.  I tried it, and it really works well!
> 
> Just let it play overnight, all day while you're at work, after 24 hours you could very well find your tube's sq has changed.




Yeah, that was me. I have a playlist with 10 minutes each of pink/white/brown noise. I just set it on repeat and go to work. I'll do this a couple of days with new tubes and by then they are burned in.


----------



## claud W

FYI   There is an "Uber" upgrade for the Bifrost on the Schiit website, I ordered mine tonight. There is also a USB upgrade for Bifrost too. I just thought that this would be a good place to post this.


----------



## sceleratus

I'm getting the sense that the "uber upgrade" is only availible if you are buying a new Bifrost.
  I hope not.
  Because I thought my fully upgradeable Bifrost can be fully upgraded.


----------



## toschek

Yeah, they have an announcement about it on the board in a separate post. The "uber" upgrade is supposed to get the sound quality close to that of the Gungnir and the USB upgrade nets you some SQ improvement over USB plus 176.8 playback. The 176.8 thing has long been seen as a limiting factor with the Bifrost, so it is nice to see that is being addressed. I am personally looking forward to the DAC upgrade though. I will be installing mine tomorrow and I'll provide pictures in this thread for anyone who is considering the DIY route.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I'm getting the sense that the "uber upgrade" is only availible if you are buying a new Bifrost.
> I hope not.
> Because I thought my fully upgradeable Bifrost can be fully upgraded.


 
  It can.  The boards can be ordered separately or Schiit can install them.  If you buy a Bifrost now, you already get the upgraded USB board but you don't get the uber analog board upgrade unless you opt for the upgrade.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## toschek

Yeah it definitely can, I talked to Jason on Sunday and my DAC upgrade board is on the way. I have usb on mine but I don't really use it. I opted for the DAC upgrade for now but I am sure I'll pick up the USB board at some point in the future. FYI, these upgrades look really easy to install. If you've ever swapped a video card you should have no problems with it. The Schiit team deserves big Kudos for a great design.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Yeah, that was me. I have a playlist with 10 minutes each of pink/white/brown noise. I just set it on repeat and go to work. I'll do this a couple of days with new tubes and by then they are burned in.


 
  Well, that was damn good advice!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





claud w said:


> FYI   There is an "Uber" upgrade for the Bifrost on the Schiit website, I ordered mine tonight. There is also a USB upgrade for Bifrost too. I just thought that this would be a good place to post this.


 
   
   
  I know, I've ordered the Uber board, I'm going to install it myself.  Wish me luck!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I'm getting the sense that the "uber upgrade" is only availible if you are buying a new Bifrost.
> I hope not.
> Because I thought my fully upgradeable Bifrost can be fully upgraded.


 
   
   
  No, you can send you Bifrost in, or you can install it yourself.  I plan on installing it myself, I'll let you know how it goes...


----------



## Sanlitun

I ordered the Uber upgrade and maybe it will show up this week. It seems pretty simple to install.
   
  For $70 it seems to be a safer bet than Ebay tubes for improving my rig.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> It can.  The boards can be ordered separately or Schiit can install them.  If you buy a Bifrost now, you already get the upgraded USB board but you don't get the uber analog board upgrade unless you opt for the upgrade.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Excellent !


----------



## sceleratus

Uberordered


----------



## toschek

toschek said:


> Yeah, that was me. I have a playlist with 10 minutes each of pink/white/brown noise. I just set it on repeat and go to work. I'll do this a couple of days with new tubes and by then they are burned in.




And no, 10 minutes of brown noise is not 10 minutes of people farting into a microphone.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





toschek said:


> And no, 10 minutes of brown noise is not 10 minutes of people farting into a microphone.


 
   
   






  Thanks for clearing that up!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I know, I've ordered the Uber board, I'm going to install it myself.  Wish me luck!


 
  how much did you pay for your bifrost board?


----------



## Radioking59

gmahler2u said:


> how much did you pay for your bifrost board?




$70 if you install, $100 if Schiit does


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Uberordered


 
  which board did you ordered?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





toschek said:


> And no, 10 minutes of brown noise is not 10 minutes of people farting into a microphone.


 
  Who knows? that might tighten up the bass


----------



## claud W

Damn that's fast !! I ordered the Uber last night and my RA number is here this morning to ship it to Schiit. Shipping today.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> If I have it right, the crystalline structure of all the conductors in the signal and power path adjust over time to the flow of electrons. Like rocks giving way to water in a stream. The characteristics change with time. Same with all electronic components, as they are made up of electron carrying materials. This is 'burn-in'.
> 
> One would believe that due to their nature, tubes would be less susceptible to this effect, but in truth it would prove they are simply more sensitive to their physical electron carrying components going through changes and amplify that.
> 
> But... I could just be blowing smoke.


 
   
  Sniff, sniff ...... I'm smelling smoke .... I don't think it's the tubes ....


----------



## NightFlight

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/221219529215?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
   
  Only a few hours left on them. If you want to get an idea of S&H Cca sound without the price, these are great. Only thing I found missing was a little sensitivity to volume and a hair of bass. But I find bottom end a little light on actual S&H ECC88 CCAs as well. The E288CCs are worth the asking price.
   
  I just went back to the bugle boys for a couple tracks. Its no contest. The S&H ECC88 CCA's are unbelievable.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> He's a hoarder. I'll have no sympaty if he trips and falls on his box of tubes.


 
   
  I'm just J/K really. I would probably cry.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> how much did you pay for your bifrost board?


 
   
  With shipping it came to $77.65.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Just decoded the dates on the Brimars... looks like 3rd week of April, 1967 on the pairs I picked up.


 
   
  Mine don't seem to have date codes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Nothing obvious on the boxes and the only things printed on the tubes themselves are the Brimar logo and 6BQ7A.
   
  Written on the box is 7250/7250 which I presume was added by the seller to document how well they tested (I asked for a matched pair).


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> With shipping it came to $77.65.


 
  Thank you


----------



## gmahler2u

I have bad news.  my 4 year old boy bend the tube's pin.  any suggestion?  I was soo angry at the kid...but now i need find the solution
  for the tube. 
   
  is it fixable? or toss it?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I have bad news.  my 4 year old boy bend the tube's pin.  any suggestion?  I was soo angry at the kid...but now i need find the solution
> for the tube.
> 
> is it fixable? or toss it?


 
   
   
  Well, you don't have much of a choice, you just need to gently try to bend it back straight.  Be very gentle, go very slowly.
   
  Are you using socket savers?  Because if you're not, I wouldn't use that tube at all.  There's a chance that the pin might break off in the socket.  That would be an annoyance in a socket saver, but a much bigger annoyance without socket savers.
   
  How valuable was the tube?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Well, you don't have much of a choice, you just need to gently try to bend it back straight.  Be very gentle, go very slowly.
> 
> Are you using socket savers?  Because if you're not, I wouldn't use that tube at all.  There's a chance that the pin might break off in the socket.  That would be an annoyance in a socket saver, but a much bigger annoyance without socket savers.
> 
> How valuable was the tube?


 
  I'm using socket savers, it's siemens ecc188, i paid $300, but it's just tube.  I can't trade with my 4 year kid.
   
  I'll tried to bend it back slowly.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I'm using socket savers, it's siemens ecc188, i paid $300, but it's just tube.  I can't trade with my 4 year kid.
> 
> I'll tried to bend it back slowly.


 
   
   
  Good luck!
   
  The good news is that your son is already showing an interest in quality audio gear!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Good luck!
> 
> The good news is that your son is already showing an interest in quality audio gear!


 

 yeah


----------



## HK_sends

Tube pins get bent...it happens.  The folks handling tubes years ago weren't using kid gloves...it was just a component to swap.  The pins should be able to be bent back into position if you use care.  As long as the glass bottle isn't cracked and the pin doesn't show signs of breaking, you should be fine.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## gmahler2u

yes, Thank God. Tube is saved!!!!


----------



## HK_sends

I know the feeling about the possibility of tube failure.  I've had only two tubes fail on me and both were due to bottle cracks even though they were fine when I used them the night before.  One was a set of Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88s a year back and the other was a Amperex Orange Globe ECC88 I got off ebay recently.  I contacted the vendor but he couldn't help since it was his last pair.  That with the fact that I couldn't conclusively prove that it wasn't my fault...I just had to write the tube and money off.  I couldn't fault the vendor because the tubes did play fine...for a very short while. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I know the feeling about the possibility of tube failure.  I've had only two tubes fail on me and both were due to bottle cracks even though they were fine when I used them the night before.  One was a set of Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88s a year back and the other was a Amperex Orange Globe ECC88 I got off ebay recently.  I contacted the vendor but he couldn't help since it was his last pair.  That with the fact that I couldn't conclusively prove that it wasn't my fault...I just had to write the tube and money off.  I couldn't fault the vendor because the tubes did play fine...for a very short while.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It's a Big Boy hobby.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> It's a Big Boy hobby.


 

 it is indeed!!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> It's a Big Boy hobby.


 
  Yeah, true...win some, lose some.  Overall, I think I have been very lucky though.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yeah, true...win some, lose some.  Overall, I think I have been very lucky though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  On the bright side, it's not America's cup yacht racing.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> yes, Thank God. Tube is saved!!!!


 
   
   
  Great news!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yeah, true...win some, lose some.  Overall, I think I have been very lucky though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  You and me both!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> On the bright side, it's not America's cup yacht racing.


 
   
  Or BASE jumping...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quiet in here tonight. Everyone busy installing their Bifrost Über upgrades?


----------



## Tuco1965




----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Quiet in here tonight. Everyone busy installing their Bifrost Über upgrades?


 
  Just ordered the boards.  In the meantime I'm going to see what this RTC E188CC talk is all about...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Quiet in here tonight. Everyone busy installing their Bifrost Über upgrades?


 

 Those of us with young children are busy installing locks on the tube cabinet.


----------



## nelamvr6

oldskool said:


> Those of us with young children are busy installing locks on the tube cabinet.




Good idea!


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Quiet in here tonight. Everyone busy installing their Bifrost Über upgrades?


 
  I haven't ordered mine yet lol


----------



## gmahler2u

let me know how you guys turn out.  easy install or hard?


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Quiet in here tonight. Everyone busy installing their Bifrost Über upgrades?


 
   
  I can't believe how fast you guys all get this stuff delivered. I ordered last Saturday and my Uber has only made it as far as Pasadena.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Yup, would like to know about one's hands on uber analog upgrade as well. Does Schiit ship it with any manual or is there any instruction for installation? Then i will probably order the board and install it myself. Of course I believe they will respond if asked help about installation. Not so hands-on/ desk work engineer here.


----------



## pukeman

I hope you guys do reviews and instructions on how to install the upgrades. I live in Canada and it would cost a lot just to get my bifrost shipped. Also not sure if customs will charge me again.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





forsakenarcher said:


> Yup, would like to know about one's hands on uber analog upgrade as well. Does Schiit ship it with any manual or is there any instruction for installation? Then i will probably order the board and install it myself. Of course I believe they will respond if asked help about installation. Not so hands-on/ desk work engineer here.


 
  Have you ever seen Schiit documentation?
  Was the font big enough to read without a jumbo magnifier?
  I thought so.
   
  I promise to take photos mine uber ist ein gefarheistengeist tag.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Ok, then. I will be in the same boat as pukeman.


----------



## Radioking59

I need some help. I got a replacement 68 OG from mercedesman. It seemed fine at the beginning but I noticed static in between songs tonight. I flicked it as mercedesman suggests and the static went away. Doing this produced a rattling sound and a thump in the left channel. I assume the thump is to be expected. Then I ran the top of my nail on the top of the tube. This produced only the rattling sound. Doing this to the other tube produced the same sound in the left channel also. I went back to the GEs and the tubes produce sounds (not near as loud as the OGs) to their respective channels only. What is this? I assume it's not good.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> I need some help. I got a replacement 68 OG from mercedesman. It seemed fine at the beginning but I noticed static in between songs tonight. I flicked it as mercedesman suggests and the static went away. Doing this produced a rattling sound and a thump in the left channel. I assume the thump is to be expected. Then I ran the top of my nail on the top of the tube. This produced only the rattling sound. Doing this to the other tube produced the same sound in the left channel also. I went back to the GEs and the tubes produce sounds (not near as loud as the OGs) to their respective channels only. What is this? I assume it's not good.


 
   
   
  Do the tubes sound good when you're not thumping or scraping  them?


----------



## Radioking59

nelamvr6 said:


> Do the tubes sound good when you're not thumping or scraping  them?




They sound fine except for the static that went away when flicked. The sound in the opposite channel of the tube that is being scraped and flicked is what bothers me. I'm scraping the tube very lightly with almost no pressure being applied.


----------



## ilikepooters

That is what we call microphonics, is it like a high pitch static ringing sound? It's nothing to be concerned about, it can be bothersome if it keeps happening when you don't touch the tubes, but tube dampers can help i believe.


----------



## ilikepooters

That's what we call microphonics, nothing to worry about if there's no static/high pitch ringing there when your not touching them, you could buy some tube dampers to help.


----------



## nelamvr6

Yeah, dampers can help.  Are you using those?


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> That is what we call microphonics, is it like a high pitch static ringing sound? It's nothing to be concerned about, it can be bothersome if it keeps happening when you don't touch the tubes, but tube dampers can help i believe.


 
   
  Thanks. I figured it was microphonics, but I have no tube experience. The sound isn't high pitched. It's almost akin to the sound my HE-500 cable makes when it touches something.
   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Yeah, dampers can help.  Are you using those?


 
   
  No dampers. I'm assuming that I will need socket savers to get the damper on the tube?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> Thanks. I figured it was microphonics, but I have no tube experience. The sound isn't high pitched. It's almost akin to the sound my HE-500 cable makes when it touches something.
> 
> 
> No dampers. I'm assuming that I will need socket savers to get the damper on the tube?


 
  Yes, at least all of the dampers I've seen.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> Thanks. I figured it was microphonics, but I have no tube experience. The sound isn't high pitched. It's almost akin to the sound my HE-500 cable makes when it touches something.
> 
> 
> No dampers. I'm assuming that I will need socket savers to get the damper on the tube?


 
   
  Bad contact on the pins may manifest as rumbling/static that goes away if the tube position is changed by a hair.
   
Important:
  When flicking/moving a tube to discover micro-phonics or dirty pins please consider using cheap headphones. Keep your cheapies close at hand. I had a Lorenz SEL PCC88 fail catastrophically on me. It nearly blew out my right channel/ear. Three times in fact... before I got the message .
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also since the tubes are attached to the output section problems will happen flat out. It doesn't matter what position the volume pot is at, since it appears to just attenuate the input level. I could be wrong about that, but in my estimation that appears to be how this particular amp is configured.


----------



## john57

Many tube amps have the input going to the volume pot first so that the front end or tubes do not get over-driven.


----------



## Sanlitun

Sooo I finally received my AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1961 LARGE O GETTER pair today and so far I would rate them above average but nothing special. A fair amount of tube bloom and distortion. Rolled them back out at the end of the evening.
   
  They are better than the GE NOS tubes generally used in the Lyr but not as good as the new JJ or any of my usual faves.
   
  This is one of the few times I have broken my own rule not to buy used tubes. I have often found new tubes to work out better for me almost every time and I will stick to new tubes from now on I think.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Sooo I finally received my AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1961 LARGE O GETTER pair today and so far I would rate them above average but nothing special. A fair amount of tube bloom and distortion. Rolled them back out at the end of the evening.
> 
> They are better than the GE NOS tubes generally used in the Lyr but not as good as the new JJ or any of my usual faves.
> 
> This is one of the few times I have broken my own rule not to buy used tubes. I have often found new tubes to work out better for me almost every time and I will stick to new tubes from now on I think.


 
   
  How many hours did you burn them in?


----------



## transducereng

Hi
  I have actually used these PCC189`s in hifi tube amps and they seem bring out pleasent surprises in terms of audio quality.
  Very little is written about these tubes but i just see good quality audio from the German makes like Telefunken,Siemens and Valvo`s.
  I`m now encouraged to roll them on my ECC88 based buffer and headphone amps..
  Did you find any "compression" to the signal dynamics with the  PCC189`s??.These tube are not fully linear, as their original  design had some AGC features (Auto Gain Compression)...


----------



## john57

I would suspect that the  PCC189 may act the same way if you are watching a movie playback that has the Dolby dynamic range compression feature turn on in some home theater setups and in mine. I do not like some IMAX movies in theaters which gets loud too soon.


----------



## jellofund

Happy days. My Bugle Boys turned up this morning and despite the seller marking full value on the customs declaration they seem to have cleared HM Customs without any charges to pay 
   
  Only given them an hour's burn in so far but even out of the box they're sounding pretty damn good. Not much in the way of crackle or distortion and they have a nice smoothness to them. Looking forward to see how they shape up with a few more hours under their belts.


----------



## jellofund

Just had to pull one of my socket savers.
   
  I've noticed that with one of them when I've been removing cooled tubes the pins have a small amount of dried silicone on them and just pulled a warm one and the pins feel 'greasy' (warm sealant I guess). Not sure if it's leaking or if somehow a small amount of silicone / glue found its way in during manufacture but I'm not wanting to take any chances. My biggest concern was that silicone might be seeping out the bottom into the amp but it seems fine down below.
   
  Think I'll drop the seller a line and see what he thinks but in the meantime I take it I can run the Lyr with one tube hooked up to the remaining saver and the other tube straight into the amp?
   
  Cheers.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Just had to pull one of my socket savers.
> 
> I've noticed that with one of them when I've been removing cooled tubes the pins have a small amount of dried silicone on them and just pulled a warm one and the pins feel 'greasy' (warm sealant I guess). Not sure if it's leaking or if somehow a small amount of silicone / glue found its way in during manufacture but I'm not wanting to take any chances. My biggest concern was that silicone might be seeping out the bottom into the amp but it seems fine down below.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes you can but it may look funny...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yes you can but it may look funny...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Cheers for confirming.
   
  I think the mono Valhalla look might catch on you know!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Cheers for confirming.
> 
> I think the mono Valhalla look might catch on you know!


 
  Didn't think of that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You might be right!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

Just rolled in OPA2134 into my Maverick D1 and it's added whole new dynamic to everything, might have to re-roll all my tubes again, might even have to re-purchase some to double check, man this is ridiculous 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  It's added so much more detail than the LF353N's that were in there before, also soundstage is a lot bigger, so some tubes i perceived to be "closed in" might sound better.
   
  Every opinion i've had on tubes so far dis-regard them when it comes to detail and soundstaging, my reference point has changed


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Cheers for confirming.
> 
> I think the mono Valhalla look might catch on you know!


 
  Post some pics!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Just rolled in OPA2134 into my Maverick D1 and it's added whole new dynamic to everything, might have to re-roll all my tubes again, might even have to re-purchase some to double check, man this is ridiculous
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  It never ends!


----------



## Flisker

Anybody knows if I can use PCC85 in Lyr ?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Anybody knows if I can use PCC85 in Lyr ?


 
   
  They are pin compatible but they are 9.5v heaters, they would be running waaay out of spec, 3.2v difference. Might sound good, might sound like junk. Anode voltage isn't too far out though.
   
  It won't kill your Lyr in any case.


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> They are pin compatible but they are 9.5v heaters, they would be running waaay out of spec, 3.2v difference. Might sound good, might sound like junk. Anode voltage isn't too far out though.
> 
> It won't kill your Lyr in any case.


 
   
  So you think it's safe to try them right ? I got them for few bucks so ... I was thinking, why not give them a chance.


----------



## toschek

Bifrost owners who would like to swap out the analog board themselves (aka "Uber"), here is a pictorial guide to get you going:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/15#post_9405695


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





flisker said:


> So you think it's safe to try them right ? I got them for few bucks so ... I was thinking, why not give them a chance.


 
  Safe for the Lyr, don't know how long the tubes will last before they die though.


----------



## ilikepooters

On the subject of using the wrong tubes...
   
   

   

   

   
  More socket savers turned up today, so i set to work making my other adaptor, now i have both Tungsram E80CC up and running, and they sound divine, they are very transparent and very detailed, soundstage has some great width already and they haven't even had any burn in yet.
   
  Might just be the new Op-amps in my D1, but i'm excited about this tube so far, looking forward to burn in.
   
*Disclaimer: E80CC are NOT compatible with Lyr without making some adaptors, don't plug them straight in or you will blow Schiit up!*


----------



## Flisker

Overclocked Lyr ^^ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looks great.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Anybody knows if I can use PCC85 in Lyr ?


 
   
  Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> They are pin compatible but they are 9.5v heaters, they would be running waaay out of spec, 3.2v difference. Might sound good, might sound like junk. Anode voltage isn't too far out though.
> 
> It won't kill your Lyr in any case.


 
   
  Quote: 





flisker said:


> So you think it's safe to try them right ? I got them for few bucks so ... I was thinking, why not give them a chance.


 
  I listen to Tungsram ECC85s in my Lyr (got 'em for $20) and am really enjoying the sound.  Jason at Schiit said you could run 6N1P tubes in the Lyr (they even sell them) and the ECC85 is one of the 6N1P family.  So, enjoy!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> On the subject of using the wrong tubes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Lyr pr0n...gotta love it!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  So...are you thinking about making your re-wiring services available to the other forum folk?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Tuco1965

Geeze those sit high!


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Lyr pr0n...gotta love it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't see why not, i'll need to get a good stock of socket savers though, then i could sell them on at whatever it costs me with postage etc, it will be strictly use at own risk though, i can test them before sending out but if people damage stuff i don't want to be held liable, i'm only an amateur/hobbyist after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did test them with multimeter before using them, continuity checked to make sure all the pins were connected to where i wanted them to be with no shorts.
   
  Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> Geeze those sit high!


 
   
  It helps with the cooling! Those tubes kick out a lot of heat, same as 6N1P.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I don't see why not, i'll need to get a good stock of socket savers though, then i could sell them on at whatever it costs me with postage etc, it will be strictly use at own risk though, i can test them before sending out but if people damage stuff i don't want to be held liable,* i'm only an amateur/hobbyist after all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's how great businesses get started! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I know I am interested.  Unfortunately it will be about a month before my wallet can recover from the Schiit upgrades and RTC tubes I bought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> How many hours did you burn them in?


 
   
  I ran them for about 5 hours or so. I felt that they sounded a bit hot and opaque but that may change in time. Right now I have some 1953 Westinghouse tubes that I am completely in love with and I want the romance to last. 
   
  I think I will not make any more changes until my Uber board arrives and then take another look. Feeling a little bit down that it did not arrive today. Maybe Monday.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> I ran them for about 5 hours or so. I felt that they sounded a bit hot and opaque but that may change in time. Right now I have some 1953 Westinghouse tubes that I am completely in love with and I want the romance to last.
> 
> I think I will not make any more changes until my Uber board arrives and then take another look. Feeling a little bit down that it did not arrive today. Maybe Monday.


 
  What's the model on those Westinghouse tubes?


----------



## sceleratus

This is what I use to store my Valves.
  
 The Otterbox 3500 Dry Case.
 I holds 21 boxes. (3 rows of 7)  You can put an additional valve on top in bubble wrap.
 There is room to tuck a silica pack and some notes behind the boxes.
  
 eBay Black model is $20.  The Clear is $26.
 Get the model without neoprene inside, as you can fit more boxes.  The 3500 series is a "dry box" so with that and a silica packet humidity damage should be eliminated.
  
 You can drive over them with a truck too.
  
 eBay Black Otterbox Dry Box
  
  
 Otterbox Dry Box specifications


----------



## HK_sends

Awesome!  Thanks, Sceleratus!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## Timodeus

ilikepooters said:


> Anyone rolled in some ECC85's? They seem to be a close match for 6N1P's and the Telefunkens are cheap as chips.




Thanks you Ecc85 lovers.

Found on marktplaats (dutch ebay) a guy with an old collection of ecc85's.
First got a telefunken pair , diamond on the bottom, with numbering from 1955 and 1956 and they were great. Great. Bass , mids and treble. First tube that seemed to match great with my HE500. 
So I ordered philips miniwatts and he had some Valvo's too . Oh yeh he put in a pair of 
Zaerex as well. Great guy.
The miniwatts have less bass but it is very tight , mids are great and treble clear but slightly rolled off. The soundstage is far more coherent than the telefunken and I find them more musical.


Sofar I like the Ecc85 very much. Valvo and Zaerex (branded Mullards?) still to go.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> This is what I use to store my Valves.
> 
> The Otterbox 3500 Dry Case.
> I holds 21 boxes. (3 rows of 7)  You can put an additional valve on top in bubble wrap.
> ...


 
   
   
  Looks like a great solution!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Looks like a great solution!


 
  I use them for all my SLR doodads.  Lens filters, etc.
   
  The smaller ones are awesome if you want to ship a couple tubes to friends.
  I just grab one of the UPS, FedEx, Or USPS filsy mylar envelope, stuff the dry box inside, roll it up and stick the flap.
  Then slap the label on it.  Indestructible.


----------



## mhamel

I found some inexpensive cases on eBay that are sold as being for camera gear.   I would't trust anything heavy like my SLR gear in them, but the're pretty great for small tubes.   The pick-and-pluck foam blocks are almost exactly the size of the average 9pin tube box.   I've got 2 of these full of various 6DJ8/6922/equivalents and starting to work on my 3rd now.   There's also egg-crate foam lining the top cover that doesn't show up in the picture.
   
   
   

   
   
  -Mike


----------



## Mediahound

while not directly audio-related, this is an interesting video for tube afficionados. it's profound that an amount of storage you can fit in your pocket today would take up a space larger than the city of San Francisco only a few decades ago:


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> while not directly audio-related, this is an interesting video for tube afficionados. it's profound that an amount of storage you can fit in your pocket today would take up a space larger than the city of San Francisco only a few decades ago:


 
   
   
  That was awesome!  Thanks!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> That was awesome!  Thanks!


 
  x10 Awesome !!


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> x10 Awesome !!


 

 Really awesome!
   
  But can a modern bit be used to amplify anything? No.
   
  But if you could, what would it sound like? Terribly small and like static I think.


----------



## NightFlight

So in my ever growing pile of tubes, I literally found some Mullard ECC88s. One of them is nearly dead. Black as death it is. The hunt for some good 2493's is on.
   
  Now they aren't as accurate and airy as the S&H E88CCs.. but they match the HD800s much better. Warmer, punchy. Organic. Fun.  I've been avoiding it, but I guess I'm a Mullard guy, or at least my rig wants to go that way.
   
  Big plus with the new v1.20 Bifrost USB Card. I lucked out with that, as my USB card died and the replacement is significantly more detailed. Gonna fork out for the updated Analog section of course. IMHO that's just as important if not more so. I mean. I heard an old DAC just KILL the stock Schiit DAC with just an output section mod.
   
_FINALLY...  _I'm getting to that place where I can just lean back, let go and enjoy the tunes. Its been years.


----------



## BobJS

@phototristan .......
   
  I see you're selling your Bifrost .... what are using to feed your Lyr?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> @phototristan .......
> 
> I see you're selling your Bifrost .... what are using to feed your Lyr?


 
  bifrost - i have more than one


----------



## cangle

I plan to soon buy the Hifiman HE-500 and the Schiit Lyr and Bifrost Combo. I'm wondering what the best tubes from the Schiit website are that I could buy for the Lyr. I have to choose between the 6BZ7 tubes, the 6N1P tubes, the E88CC tubes, or the GE 6BZ7/6BQ7A tubes. I understand that there are other better options out there, but I don't really want to get into tube rolling yet as that is not allowed by my budget. I really appreciate the feed back and would also be open to other tubes under $50 that may work well with the Lyr and HE-500.
   
  Lastly, I was watching a video review of the Lyr on Youtube and someone was saying that they used tube risers with the Lyr because otherwise, the tubes are rather difficult to remove. Any idea where I could get something like this?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





cangle said:


> I plan to soon buy the Hifiman HE-500 and the Schiit Lyr and Bifrost Combo. I'm wondering what the best tubes from the Schiit website are that I could buy for the Lyr. I have to choose between the 6BZ7 tubes, the 6N1P tubes, the E88CC tubes, or the GE 6BZ7/6BQ7A tubes. I understand that there are other better options out there, but I don't really want to get into tube rolling yet as that is not allowed by my budget. I really appreciate the feed back and would also be open to other tubes under $50 that may work well with the Lyr and HE-500.
> 
> Lastly, I was watching a video review of the Lyr on Youtube and someone was saying that they used tube risers with the Lyr because otherwise, the tubes are rather difficult to remove. Any idea where I could get something like this?


 
   
  Firstly, i'd start with the G.E 6BZ7's that come from Schiit because they are neutral sounding, so they'll give you a reference point so you know where you're at.
   
  If you said $100 then i'd point you towards the Amperex Orange globes that everyone seems to favour, but again, depends what you'd like from the sound.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-PAIR-CHECKED-TEKTRONIX-/221215754896?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33817c8a90
   
  If you want a cheap tube that's very pleasing on the ear and adds some warmth to the bass and mids, then i'd recommend the Brimar 6BQ7A which can be had really cheap from ebay when they appear again.
   
  Yes the tubes can be fiddly to remove, i just use a pair of cheap chinese socket savers, does the job.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290835055818?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I just downloaded the 15 minute pink noise mp3 from here:  http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_pinknoise.php  and burned it to a CD.  When I want to burn something in, I just put my CD player on repeat.  Works a treat!


 
   
  Downloaded that 15 min noise, did some more clicking and got to -> http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/rainNoiseGenerator.php this is really awesome for relaxation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 add more on first 3 sliders to get some background thunder


----------



## Joong

Hi guys.
   
  This time I have a combination of CV2492( backside = right ear)+Siemens E88CC of A6-0G (hallo getter)( front side = left ear) to test the SQ.
  Previously I did the same but the front side with BB - D getter.
  The new combination is more fluid than previous pair which had sibilance.
  The balance seems OK with no noise with maximum volume when I am listening to Faure Requiem.
   
  Did you guys see some technical issue with this hetero tube test for Lyr?
  May I stay with this combination forever when it is good enough.
  All this was started when an Ebay guy sent me an faulty Mullard E88CC tube to me.
  The guy is honest enough to replace it with a Siemens one very quickly.
   
  CV2492 KB/D with dimple disc getter / gold pins and arrow marks, what is it?


----------



## claud W

This is my favorite so far. As you can see they are Amprex "halo" getter 6922s. These are my best pairs. I switched back to the no label pair as they sound the same and that pair was true NOS because it took a couple of sessions to sound their best.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Downloaded that 15 min noise, did some more clicking and got to -> http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/rainNoiseGenerator.php this is really awesome for relaxation
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Cool! That would be nice to help me sleep...


----------



## Flisker

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Cool! That would be nice to help me sleep...


 
   
  It's best stuff for relaxation I ever heard, waterfall is also great. Already gave it 2 hour testing session today and it works very nicely for me.
   
  ps: don't forget to try "motion" button


----------



## mhamel

I've been on an eBay tube bargain hunt the past week or so... well, mostly bargains, outside of the RTC and Darios.  I figured I'd pick up some lesser-known cheap tubes to experiment with.
   
  So far, I've gotten in:
  ----------
  1 pr. Westinghouse 6BQ7A- 1962
  1 pr. Westinghouse 6BQ7A- 1965
  2 pr. Sylvania 6BQ7A- 1950
  2 pr. Dumont 6BQ7A- Unsure of date
  1 pr. Tung Sol 6BQ7A- Unsure of date
   
  Due in:
  ----------
  2pr. Westinghouse 6BQ7A - 1953
  2pr. Motorola 6BQ7A
  2pr. Z&I Italy ECC85
  2pr. Telam ECC85
  1pr Newhaus RFT ECC85
  1pr RFT ECC85
  2pr Tungsram E88CC Red Label
  1pr E188CC Dario Miniwatt (not convinced these are real, will see once they come in)
  1pr RTC E188CC (from radio-collection)
   
   
   
  Thoughts so far...
   
  Westinghouse 6BQ7A 1962 - Wow... very "3D" - smooth highs, great mids, good bass.  Unfortunately one of them is ridiculously microphonic, the dampers I have aren't helping, so I'm going to pick up a pair of Brent Jesse's copper dampers to see if I can tame these.  They sound far too good to toss out.  These weren't super cheap, but if I can tame the microphonics they're absolutely worth it.   $30 for the pair.
   
  Westinghouse 6BQ7A 1965 - Pretty much the same as the 1962s, but with excellent/deep bass and maybe a touch warmer in the mids.  Another case of having one tube VERY microphonic however.  Again hoping that the copper dampers will tame that.   These were only $8 for the pair.
   
  Sylvania 6BQ7A 1950 - I need to spend some more time with these, but initial impressions are pretty good. Dynamic and punchy, nice width and depth to the soundstage, mids are kind of forward but very nice with vocals.  Slight hump in the upper midbass area - would be better if that smooths out with burn-in, but we'll see.  Maybe a bit grainy up high, but again, they're nowhere near burned in - just an initial impression.   Low noise, one tube is slightly microphonic but not bad at all.  Came in mil-spec boxes.   Definitely have potential, and best of all... $10 for the quad.
   
  Dumont 6BQ7A - I need to withhold final judgement on these until I get a pair burned in. They seem to do a lot of things right, quite forward in the mids, though, and a definite upper midbass hump.  Seem like an exaggerated version of the Sylvanias in both regards.   I haven't been able to figure out how old these are yet.  They look like they may have been made by Sylvania - they've got both Dumont and Sylvania codes on them.   $13 for the quad, so certain cheap enough to play with.
   
  Tung Sol 6BQ7A - no-go.  One of them hums VERY loudly, well past anything listenable.   I've tried cleaning contacts, changing sockets, etc... just seems to be a bad tube.   I've got another small amp that uses a single tube and a DAC that uses a single 6922 in the output stage (Music Hall 25.3) so I'll hang on to the good one to try in those, but a bust for the Lyr.   These were $10.50/pr.
   
   
  Currently listening to the 1965 Westinghouse.... with two dampers on the microphonic tube, which tames it slightly - but they sound so good I don't want to take them out yet.
   
   
      -Mike


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> I've been on an eBay tube bargain hunt the past week or so... well, mostly bargains, outside of the RTC and Darios.  I figured I'd pick up some lesser-known cheap tubes to experiment with.
> 
> So far, I've gotten in:
> ----------
> ...


 
  Thanks for the excellent report!  It's great to learn about new tubes that will work well in the Lyr without busting the budget.


----------



## ilikepooters

I've snapped up what i hope will be a bargain.
   
  Amperex ECC88 with PQ shield, orange labels, made in Holland.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251256571337?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  Are these just glorified Orange globes? I can't imagine tooling or materials would be any different.


----------



## GrindingThud

I have a pair of those and they are my favorites. The Tek checked/selected tubes tend to be very quiet.



ilikepooters said:


> I've snapped up what i hope will be a bargain.
> 
> Amperex ECC88 with PQ shield, orange labels, made in Holland.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251256571337?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> ...


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I have a pair of those and they are my favorites. The Tek checked/selected tubes tend to be very quiet.


 
   
  So they're essentially just "cherry picked" orange globes?
   
  *EDIT* nevermind, Orange globes have different getter construction. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amperex-Holland-Orange-Globe-6DJ8-ECC88-dimpled-disc-getter-strong-matched-quad-/161018626266?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item257d7540da
  *EDIT2* and even more different getter construction. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-PAIR-CHECKED-TEKTRONIX-/221215754896?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33817c8a90
  *EDIT3* another getter design for orange globes, these are like the PQ's i've just bought though. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amperex-Holland-A-Frame-6DJ8-ECC88-dimpled-disc-getter-strong-matched-quad-/161018612622?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item257d750b8e
   
  Those Amperex tubes sure are varied, couldn't they settle on one design? Anw which is the "preferred" getter design for orange globes?


----------



## GrindingThud

They come in either construction. Yours are A frame. PQ designates premium quality.....and Tek cherry picked from the PQ.



ilikepooters said:


> So they're essentially just "cherry picked" orange globes?
> 
> *EDIT* nevermind, Orange globes have different getter construction. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amperex-Holland-Orange-Globe-6DJ8-ECC88-dimpled-disc-getter-strong-matched-quad-/161018626266?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item257d7540da


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





flisker said:


> Downloaded that 15 min noise, did some more clicking and got to -> http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/rainNoiseGenerator.php this is really awesome for relaxation
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Another place is Simply Noise and Simply Rain:
   
http://www.simplynoise.com/
   
http://rain.simplynoise.com/
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Those Amperex tubes sure are varied, couldn't they settle on one design? Anw which is the "preferred" getter design for orange globes?


 
  IMO, the OG from the late '60s with the halo getter sounds slightly better than the dimple-disk and A-frames. BUT, I haven't heard a bad OG yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  YMMV.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Bifrost owners who would like to swap out the analog board themselves (aka "Uber"), here is a pictorial guide to get you going:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/15#post_9405695


 
I'd like to add a little something for folks that don't often take equipment apart and don't like screwdrivers.   Many probably know this but it might help someone that's never done this.  It's a couple tips for removing and replacing fasteners.
   
1) When removing a philips head fastener, it is very important to have the correct size screwdriver.  The worst case is too small a bit that will strip the cross slots.
Use the largest bit that will fit in the slot.
   
2) Push straight down on the fastener and "crack" it loose.  "Lefty - Loosen"  "Righty - Tightly"  I like screwdrivers like the one pictured, because the red-head of the handle turns while pushing down from the palm.  The Bifrost screws seem to have a  bit of lock-tite type of compound so they will stick a bit when removing them.  Apply downward pressure most of the time you are backing out the fastener.
   
3) When reinserting the fasteners don't completely tighten one fastener and move to the next.  Instead just "start" all the fasteners on the side you are working on.   Once they are all started half way, move around and snug each one up.  You are not building a race car, snug is just fine. This procedure helps to ensure that all the holes line up.   Pay special attention to the fastener when starting it in the hole.  It should go in smoothly.  If not, Stop, remove the fastener and start again.  You don't want to cross thread the holes.  This is a "feel" thing.  If it feels wrong, it's wrong.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I'd like to add a little something for folks that don't often take equipment apart and don't like screwdrivers.   Many probably know this but it might help someone that's never done this.  It's a couple tips for removing and replacing fasteners.
> 
> 1) When removing a philips head fastener, it is very important to have the correct size screwdriver.  The worst case is too small a bit that will strip the cross slots.
> Use the largest bit that will fit in the slot.
> ...


 
   
   
  Good advice!


----------



## sceleratus

To the non-USA folks with 230V power and a 115V Bifrost.
  WARNING... DANGER...DANGER.
  Consult with a knowledgeable person before reading further.
   
  Whilst installing my Uber upgrade in my Bifrost, I looked at the transformer and PCB board and
  noticed that the transformer is Dual Voltage. I went to the manufacturer's web site and confirmed
  that the transformer model number in my Bifrost was dual voltage.  The AC receptacle is as well.
  115VAC and 230VAC
   
  It "APPEARS" to be a simple matter of removing 2 jumpers and installing a a single jumper to convert it to 230V.
  This wire the primaries in Series rather than Parallel.
   
  If this is interesting, I'd be happy to open up my Lyr and take a look.
  If you were desperate enough to try this upgrade the fuse.


----------



## sceleratus

Installation notes on the Bifrost Uber Upgrade.
   
  Fastener Removal.
   
  1)  Remove all the "perimeter" fasteners first.  Top and bottom. Do not remove the fasteners in the bottom center.  They secure the PCB board to the chassis and you don't want it rattling around.
  2) Next remove the 4 black fasteners in the back of the unit.  The two halves of the enclosure can be separated.
  3) Now remove the center fasteners on the bottom of the chassis.  The board will slide out.
  4)   ***** Be very careful of the 3 front indicator LED's they are vulnerable.
   
  Reseating the LED
  5) When you have swapped daughter cards and secured the top card here is how I was able to get the LED's back into their tiny holes.
  Gently slide the board in and put in the bottom center, rear fastener.  This will hold the board in the correct place. Position the enclosure face down on edge.
  6) Working from the side.... To seat the LED's use needle nose pliers or sturdy tweezers. The leads bend.  You can slide and center the LED's.  To seat them securely it may be necessary to "pull" them down into the holed.  The leads are pliable and gentle positioning with tweezers will not hurts them. 
  7) Finish securing the PCB to the chassis before putting the enclosure together.   NOTE:  There are 2 different sizes of fasteners. (Besides the black ones in the rear)
   
  There are 5 long stainless steel fasteners and 10 short stubby ones.  Use the 5 long fasteners in the bottom center holes to secure the PCB board to the enclosure.  Use the 10 short ones to fasten the case halves.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Installation notes on the Bifrost Uber Upgrade.
> 
> Fastener Removal.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  The leads connecting those LEDs will bend easily.  By gentle, be methodical.  Don't panic, and don't be in a hurry either.  
   
  This part of the process is a pain in the ass, but it's really not complicated.  
   
  The most important thing is to just stay as relaxed as possible.  If you feel your shoulders and neck muscles start to tighten, just walk away and breathe for a few moments.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Installation notes on the Bifrost Uber Upgrade.
> 
> Fastener Removal.
> 
> ...


 
  Excellent write up!  This is exactly the procedure I followed.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Excellent write up!  This is exactly the procedure I followed.


 
  Thank you.
  I appreciate that.
   
  Boys n' Girls.  About the "Uber Upgrade"
   
  Freak'n amazing !
  It made my lesser favorite glass sound beautiful.
  So much so, I decided not to sell (for now) a couple sets that I had listed.
   
  Who woulda' thunk?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Thank you.
> I appreciate that.
> 
> Boys n' Girls.  About the "Uber Upgrade"
> ...


 

 start saving money for upgrade?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> start saving money for upgrade?


 
  Yes, I strongly suggest...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## erikfreedom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n4WVRKkmww&feature=youtu.be
   
   
  I went from the ge stock tubes to electro harmonix 6922 to new genalex gold lion. the new gold lion e88cc are great tubes. got them at tube depot. 126 bucks for a pair shipped at my door in Canada.
   
  hope you enjoy the video. lot of skills required to make a tube and love the comments of the idiot bashing tube amps.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





> Those Amperex tubes sure are varied, couldn't they settle on one design?


 
   
  Continual improvement process: better product / cheaper to make. Besides, Philips (and Mullard) made gazillions of them; there must have been a need to retool every now and then anyway.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Thank you.
> I appreciate that.
> 
> Boys n' Girls.  About the "Uber Upgrade"
> ...


 
   
  Source counts for a lot. I found out the same thing with a better DAC recently. The sound signature is just that. I previously didn't like some Tubes, and liked others, but it turns out I was just using them to cover up the DAC's output. The Lyr has a lot to offer if you have a better DAC on it. The original Bifrost is decent DAC, but nowhere near fantastic.


----------



## Sniperbombers

oh boy has it been a while since i've posted on this thread. I look back to when my first set up was the fiio e7/e9 combo and i thought to myself about how ugly the thing sounds after switching to the lyr/bifrost combo. It made me realize it sounds so much better.

 PS. anyone want to update me on what i've missed ?


----------



## Joong

The cable impact.
  So far I have done very hard to figure out the reason why my chain of machine does not sound as it should when I changed my tubes from known lower qual to higher one.
   
  When I changed the cable from Bifrost to Lyr, SQ is noticeably improved.
  I think that cable impacts equal or more than tube does.
   
  I stated before: "my Lyr is independent on tubes"
  The cable quality might act as weakest link.


----------



## sceleratus

Lyr Power Conversion.   Read At Your Own Peril.
  
 After seeing the dual primary transformers in the Bifrost, I had to check out the Lyr.  The Lyr also has transformers with dual primaries. 240/120  They are made by MCI Transformers
  and are of Series 4-02.  I suspect the remaining part number is for a special secondary winding as it's not in the parts book.  The filaments are on a seprate transformer.
   
  They are connected in parallel for 120VAC.  Switch them to series and they should be 240VAC, per the markings on the PCB board.  What I can't say is if there are any capacitor differences on the secondary side.  Shouldn't be.... but you never know.  Remember, I'm just a Dufus on a Forum.

  
 Anyway, I took some photos and added some remarks.


----------



## transducereng

ilikepooters said:


> They are pin compatible but they are 9.5v heaters, they would be running waaay out of spec, 3.2v difference. Might sound good, might sound like junk. Anode voltage isn't too far out though.
> 
> It won't kill your Lyr in any case.


you might try the pcc189 an exact spec of the 6dj8 difference with 7v heater and some agc characteristics


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





transducereng said:


> you might try the pcc189 an exact spec of the 6dj8 difference with 7v heater and some agc characteristics


 
   
  I've tried PCC189 and ECC189, both sounded pretty good, but they are variable gain so not to everyones taste.


----------



## fatube

Hello to all I'm French and unfortunately I speak not English uses a bing translator translator, after having read 476 pages this was long! on the lyr shiit that a device well built in aluminium brushed, jaime much the look there are in france at audiophyle I saw that certain person are a little while is inporte what regards tubes! first before any change of tubes need to know voltages to the anodes, heating, bias, to 0.1 volt meadows -1 know the voltages of the tubes are it regulate? -2 the device is designed for 6922 tubes or E88CC therefore it fau know must be the voltage at the anode -3 ECC88 tubes are provided work for with 130 volts Max E88CC has + 130 volts can be mounted a replacement of the Ecc88 E88CC tube but not the contrary! -E80CC = 12au7, the E85cc = EL84, 6CG7A = 6SN7GT ?, c is tubes not nothing to do it will work but at the end of 6 months - 1 year your tube regulated heating are grilled ! Same for the 6n1p Russian ev n is not a tube compatible with the E88cc ECC88 unlike says on ebay! 88 the PCC88 prior to 1970 was 7 volts after 1970 7.6 volts, this tube with heating a 6.3 volt performance is 50% to 70% it work perfectly! the tube equivalent are 7308, 6922, ecc88, E88CC, 6bq7a, pcc88 heating has 7 v minimum, Russian 6n23ev, Russian 6np3, the RTC or Mullard identical E188cc, E288cc 2 guys that if know tube Ms-scary, and HK - send the voltage is hyper-important !


----------



## ilikepooters

Anyone know if Lyr uses both triodes of each tube? I'm thinking of breaking out the soldering iron again and making Lyr use only 1 tube, because buying single tubes is cheap.
   
  I'm not thinking of altering the Lyr in any way, more thinking of playing about with those cheap, disposable chinese socket savers again.
   
  Anyone in the know?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Anyone know if Lyr uses both triodes of each tube? I'm thinking of breaking out the soldering iron again and making Lyr use only 1 tube, because buying single tubes is cheap.
> 
> I'm not thinking of altering the Lyr in any way, more thinking of playing about with those cheap, disposable chinese socket savers again.
> 
> Anyone in the know?


 
  Both triodes


----------



## randytsuch

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> More tubes that work:
> 
> 6N23P
> 7DJ8/PCC88
> ...


 
   
  Hi
  I was looking at this list, and noticed the E80CC reference.
   
  Since you need a special adapter to use an E80CC, I think it is confusing to have it on this list.
   
  Randy


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





randytsuch said:


> Hi
> I was looking at this list, and noticed the E80CC reference.
> 
> Since you need a special adapter to use an E80CC, I think it is confusing to have it on this list.
> ...


 
   
  Yes it was a mistake, can you link me to the post number?


----------



## fatube

High

  The E80cc is absolutely not compatible with E88cc or ecc88

  the 6np3 no longer! Sorry I meant the 6n23p!

  the Chinese 6n1 and 6n1 Russian ev not nothing have, Chinese is compatible, not Russian


  whatever ' a bit to watch the voltage to the tubes with a multimeter!


----------



## tuna47

Just received orange globes really open up soundstage


----------



## fatube

the ecc85 is no compatible whit le 6dj8 ou ecc88
   
  ECC85 = 12at7


----------



## randytsuch

Fatube
  Here is some info for you
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphone-systems/210001-looking-new-project-anything-similar-schiit-lyr-2.html#post3004973
   
  Randy


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





fatube said:


> the ecc85 is no compatible whit le 6dj8 ou ecc88
> 
> ECC85 = 12at7


 
   
  ECC85 is a 6.3v tube. and 12AT7 is a 12.6v / 6.3v tube (series/parallel) with a completely different pin-out.
   
  They are similar, but not the same.
   
  ECC85 sounds great in Lyr.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





fatube said:


> Hello to all I'm French and unfortunately I speak not English uses a bing translator translator, after having read 476 pages this was long! on the lyr shiit that a device well built in aluminium brushed, jaime much the look there are in france at audiophyle I saw that certain person are a little while is inporte what regards tubes! first before any change of tubes need to know voltages to the anodes, heating, bias, to 0.1 volt meadows -1 know the voltages of the tubes are it regulate? -2 the device is designed for 6922 tubes or E88CC therefore it fau know must be the voltage at the anode -3 ECC88 tubes are provided work for with 130 volts Max E88CC has + 130 volts can be mounted a replacement of the Ecc88 E88CC tube but not the contrary! -E80CC = 12au7, the E85cc = EL84, 6CG7A = 6SN7GT ?, c is tubes not nothing to do it will work but at the end of 6 months - 1 year your tube regulated heating are grilled ! Same for the 6n1p Russian ev n is not a tube compatible with the E88cc ECC88 unlike says on ebay! 88 the PCC88 prior to 1970 was 7 volts after 1970 7.6 volts, this tube with heating a 6.3 volt performance is 50% to 70% it work perfectly! the tube equivalent are 7308, 6922, ecc88, E88CC, 6bq7a, pcc88 heating has 7 v minimum, Russian 6n23ev, Russian 6np3, the RTC or Mullard identical E188cc, E288cc 2 guys that if know tube Ms-scary, and HK - send the voltage is hyper-important !


 
   
  Quote: 





fatube said:


> High
> 
> The E80cc is absolutely not compatible with E88cc or ecc88
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





fatube said:


> the ecc85 is no compatible whit le 6dj8 ou ecc88
> 
> ECC85 = 12at7


 
  Hi Fatube!
   
  Welcome to Head-Fi!  Sorry about your wallet...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm not an expert on tube compatibility but I do believe the ECC85 is related to the 6AQ8 (and 6N1P) which is a six volt tube unlike the 12AT7 which is equivalent to the ECC81 tube.  Most of the tubes I have tried have either been through trial and error, or recommendations by other Lyr owners.  I do know that "ilikepooters" re-wired some socket savers in order to allow the Lyr to run his E80CC but that's the most radical modification I have seen so far to for tubes (although I think it is a cool idea).
   
  The great thing about the Lyr is it appears to be very forgiving for those that wish to push the boundaries of tube rolling.  But I have only been daring enough to try the ECC85 tubes or 7 volt tubes like the PCC88.  That's the most risk I am willing to take with my Lyr.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I look forward to reading more of your posts.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





randytsuch said:


> Fatube
> Here is some info for you
> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphone-systems/210001-looking-new-project-anything-similar-schiit-lyr-2.html#post3004973
> 
> Randy


 
  Great link, thanks Randy!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

I'm thinking about making some of those adaptors to sell, just bought 20 of the cheap socket savers from ebay for £16.38, so that's about 82p each, 4 are needed in total for a pair of adaptors, so £3.28 for a set.
   
  So i could ship them out for $5 + postage, and it will let people use other tubes like E80CC, ECC81/E81CC/ECC801S/12**7 etc.
   
  I'll make a few sets for now and see how it goes. Need the socket savers to turn up first of course


----------



## fatube

Hi guys

  actually I know not the ECC85 it n is not a sorry 12at7! read on a forum the guy all wrong wrong, me too sorry!

  the ecc85 is a 6AQ8 it n is not compatible heating must be 9 volts! to work perfectly!


  Thanks randytsuch for the link it was d a great relief! anode would be 110 volts so no problem for the E88cc or ecc88 tubes are a cathode common ok!


  the heating is 6.3 volt or 6,30 Volt is such ! Therefore the pcc 88 will not work perfectly it should be 7 volts for a tube before 1970 and after 1970 7,6 volt actually it works but not the maximum performance

  the tube will last longer long  is all !

  ' jason site is well done, including at the level of design beautiful j love, is the price of inidescent, but I'm not going to shout it out loud, I know not how it do weird for the USA made? d ' after the picture of the card on the site heating has a transistor to stabilize the voltage, j would have preferred a regulator, this transistor is hyper fragile if the voltage exceeds it likely grilled so I necks advise to take equivalence that Jason has published on its website is nothing d ' other

  or after 6 months 1 year the transistor will grilled, the tube also without heating with the high voltage!


  tubes the 6BQ7A GE are fully equivalent, is excellent! but it requires roder them + 48 hours medium is thicker, the bass are less accurate but opening and depth make game equal to top Amperex which is my tubes preferred, especially A frame is the best tube in terms of precision, fabulous aeration, guitar strings on a disc waoo! test blue caost collection of the excellent l pregnant son Jean Marie Reynaud including this cd << the ese sessions >>

  fabulous American artists << keith greeninger >>, and << jane selkey >> what voices, what votes why have it in France **** !!


  Warning I see some who thinks that 4 hours or 48 hours is sufficient to break a tube, all electronics rode even if some do not believe a tube as a sound after 4 hours is 8 hours cela change a new, but after 70 hours the difference can be huge, sometimes the bass, everything depends on the tube! I give a finished running a 200 hours for any tube or transistor device!

  I never before made by record 200 hours!


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Post some pics!


 
   
  Sorry it took a while but proof that the much rumoured , and highly anticipated, Mono Vahalla exists


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Sorry it took a while but proof that the much rumoured , and highly anticipated, Mono Vahalla exists


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Sorry it took a while but proof that the much rumoured , and highly anticipated, Mono Vahalla exists


 
  I like it!!  I think you may start a (tube amp) fashion statement!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## fatube

Here is what says a specialist of the tube that an encyclopedia of the tube in france 
   
  You * can * try ECC85, others did without any problems, however it is not the exact equivalent of the 6N1P.
 Long term, in an SRPP editing that requires a voltage high enough between filament and cathode, I can not say what an ECC85 will become.

 The exact equivalent of the 6N1P is the ECC180-6BQ7, which is scheduled for montages cascodes with high between filament and cathode voltage.

 A Pcc85 is intended for heating current 300mA, constant voltage of 9V.
 With 6, 3V will be completely asleep...

 The ECC85 already has an internal resistance almost twice higher than the 6N1P of origin, which brings no benefit instead, but with this tube malnourished, it'll be even worse!

 No, it shouldn't if fun to change tubes like that, au petit Bonheur, just because a handyman has done so and has spoken on the net...
 Each floor of the amp is designed, planned, for a specific operating point to a few percent close: you can put a tube equivalent, or very close, but with a different tube, it is not enough that the pinout is compatible!

 Francis ibres !


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Just received orange globes really open up soundstage


 
   
  Speaking of Orange Globes...I just decided to put some tubes up for sale in the next couple of days, including a couple matched pairs of OG and a sweet '59 Valvo D-getter.
   
  Of course, I would prefer to sell to a fellow roller and "keep them in the family"...which is why I'm mentioning it here first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Shoot me a PM if interested and I can send a pic. All quiet and matched pairs with NOS test scores. Prices shipped via USPS, and CONUS only for now.
   
  '59 Valvo PCC88 D-getter!  SOLD
  '67 Amperex ECC88 Orange Globes  SOLD
  '68 Amperex ECC88 Orange Globes  SOLD
   
  Also have 3 pairs ('71, '72, '75) Amperex ECC88 orange A-frames  $50/pr
   
  Plus another 3 pairs of Matsu****a ECC88 (Mullard tooling)  $40/pr
   
  These prices are less than I paid for these. Not trying to make a profit, just want to help a Brotha out.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Speaking of Orange Globes...I just decided to put some tubes up for sale in the next couple of days, including a couple matched pairs of OG and a sweet '59 Valvo D-getter.
> 
> Of course, I would prefer to sell to a fellow roller and "keep them in the family"...which is why I'm mentioning it here first.
> 
> ...


 
  Sadly, for ya'll, the 59' D getters are off-the-table.
   
  and on mine.


----------



## gmahler2u

Finally, my impression on Lorenz 3mica, First of all, Thanks to HK and OS! without these guys sacrifice I can't ever taste of Lorenz 3mica.
   
  My short impression, for my ear, it's game over for me.  It's Unbelievable tube!  I also listen with Siemens ecc188, other tubes that I have won't even come close!.
  this 3mica, surpass siemens!  musically.
  With the lcd2, I felt more muscles and You're in the music top to bottom.
  with the hd800, you can hear all the detail like Swiss watch!!! ALSO musical! not warm as lcd2 but the sound that senns bring to the table is
  that fantastic soniC. 
   
  I know little ambiguous impression, but All i'm saying is that I'm over with tube rolling!!
  It was long and difficult hunting of this tube but It worth everything!!!!
   
  thanks again!  HK and OS.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Finally, my impression on Lorenz 3mica, First of all, Thanks to HK and OS! without these guys sacrifice I can't ever taste of Lorenz 3mica.
> 
> My short impression, for my ear, it's game over for me.  It's Unbelievable tube!  I also listen with Siemens ecc188, other tubes that I have won't even come close!.
> this 3mica, surpass siemens!  musically.
> ...


 

 Glad you got to finally hear the Lorenz! Enjoy!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Also to update my "tube sale" above, the '59 Valvos and the '68 OG's are sold.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Glad you got to finally hear the Lorenz! Enjoy!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Once again..
   
  The glass is flying !!!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Finally, my impression on Lorenz 3mica, First of all, Thanks to HK and OS! without these guys sacrifice I can't ever taste of Lorenz 3mica.
> 
> My short impression, for my ear, it's game over for me.  It's Unbelievable tube!  I also listen with Siemens ecc188, other tubes that I have won't even come close!.
> this 3mica, surpass siemens!  musically.
> ...


 
  Gustav !
  I am with you 100%.   When you find that valve that's "just right" park the truck.
  With me it's the RTC's  The 3mica's are indeed amazing.  Same kitchen, different soup.
   
  Only thing that matters is your jaw dropping, a small tear, and the music in your ears.
   
  I am delighted for you, I know it's taken some time.


----------



## sceleratus

Hello !!!
   
Someone had best grab those 67' OG's


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Hello !!!
> 
> Someone had best grab those 67' OG's


 

 I was very tempted.
   
  Only problem being that I'm outside the US and have spent way too much already on tubes (+ Lyr) recently. Can't complain too much though as I'm enjoying breaking in the Bugle Boys.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I was very tempted.
> 
> Only problem being that I'm outside the US and have spent way too much already on tubes (+ Lyr) recently. Can't complain too much though as I'm enjoying breaking in the Bugle Boys.


 
  You get a Hall Pass.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> You get a Hall Pass.


 
  Phew!


----------



## randytsuch

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Hello !!!
> 
> Someone had best grab those 67' OG's


 
  Someone did (looks at his now empty pockets, and says damn this place)


----------



## GrindingThud




----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





randytsuch said:


> Someone did (looks at his now empty pockets, and says damn this place)


 

 Yep, the sweet '67's are headed west. Thanks Randy. Enjoy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers, JC


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Gustav !
> I am with you 100%.   When you find that valve that's "just right" park the truck.
> With me it's the RTC's  The 3mica's are indeed amazing.  Same kitchen, different soup.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you sceleratus! Now I can be rest with the music.


----------



## sceleratus

The Über is installed
  The 65 RTC's are back in.
  They will be staying there until one of us dies.
   
  Do not ask why I bought the 59's


----------



## billerb1

My Bifrost gets back from Schiit with the Uber on Wednesday...can't wait.
  Sceleratus,have appreciated your updates on the upgrade sound.  So tell us
  what you heard when the super tubes met the Uber !!!  The world wants
  to know the power of the Uber with the good Schiit !!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> My Bifrost gets back from Schiit with the Uber on Wednesday...can't wait.
> Sceleratus,have appreciated your updates on the upgrade sound.  So tell us
> what you heard when the super tubes met the Uber !!!  The world wants
> to know the power of the Uber with the good Schiit !!!!!!!!!!!


 
  I was asked in the Upgrade thread.....
   
  "Other Worldly"
   
   
  EDIT:
   
  Get this.  It makes mediocre glass sound good!   How ???


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I was asked in the Upgrade thread.....
> 
> "Other Worldly"
> 
> ...


 

 Because the problem is not in the glass. Glass can be used to cover issues, and traditionally been used to do so. We all do it. I realized it a couple weeks ago when I got a good wakeup call on a good DAC. When I heard a good DAC I heard the immediate and striking difference between detail and glass signature as layers. The glass, fortunately is good enough to reveal and isn't the problem.
   
  I'm glad Schiit has released the v1.20 boards. An improved analog section should be immediately evident, as it will allow you to actually hear the digital side, and IMHO is most critical. People who mod equipment have been getting these sorts of gains for years. Now essentially, Schiit has done the work for you. The cost is around the same, but with the benefit of having the original engineer work out the methods and maintaining your warranty.
   
  I've got an XDA-2 in the works getting mods on its Analog output section and I plan to shoot it out with the Schiit v1.20.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Finally, my impression on Lorenz 3mica, First of all, Thanks to HK and OS! without these guys sacrifice I can't ever taste of Lorenz 3mica.
> 
> My short impression, for my ear, it's game over for me.  It's Unbelievable tube!  I also listen with Siemens ecc188, other tubes that I have won't even come close!.
> this 3mica, surpass siemens!  musically.
> ...


 
  My pleasure!  I'm glad you can enjoy them.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Sorry...Deleted Post.
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## fatube

Hi guys

  you tube clc c about is what this tube?

  with us the best tubes in France these E188CC RTC = mullard e188cc and all tubes Philips, Amperex herllen, Telefunken. Siemens

  JHA saw that most of the White was writing valvo manufactured by herlleen in Holland!

  recently tested A 1970 A frame valvo tube very refined, with na nothing to do with orange Amperex A frame!


  for the CTS you this announcement: cest what you buy: http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290907648555&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

  round getter!


  for the Amperex Orange globe there are several model A frame, cage round wide getter, small round getter, getter round dimple

  which is the best?


----------



## fatube

Running-200 h finished tubes 6BQ7A general electic, I know the brand but never buy tube at home, there are also specific is dynamic, that the Amperex A frame my prefer I this good with mullard ecc88 or metering

  and well I'll tell you I'm going to order a good stock of these best that as good tubes for a fraction of the price


  what think buy expensive tubes are best depends on the electronics, but there are a lot of tube meconu in audio that I'm on are excellent!

  I recommend the 6BQ7A

  Of course not test telefunken and valvo is a sttugard, or siemens CCa unfortunately too expensive!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





fatube said:


> Hi guys
> 
> you tube clc c about is what this tube?
> 
> ...


 
  The eBay valve you linked is a Philips / Amprex made in Heerlen Netherlands.
  Philips / Mullard are made in the UK.
   
  Just say'n
   
  Edit
  The E188CC is also called a 7308  "VR"
  The E88CC is also called a 6922  "7L"
   
  Edit 2
  I like the 1960 / 1950 "D" getter also love the E188CC Large O.
  I don't like dimple getters very much, although they were better with the Bifrost Über upgrade.
  My chain is Macbook Pro>Bifrost>Lyr>LCD2's


----------



## fatube

hi sceleratus
   
  ok thank ,
   my favorite


   
  RT E188CC  O GETTER

   
  RTC E188CC IS GOOD , OR NO ?

  pine trop bright  etrange !
   
   
  Amperex orange getter Rond  is good ?

   
   think you of these tubes Amperex Orange globe getter round fosette
   

  Amperex Orange fabric germany  ?

   
   what think you ?


----------



## fatube

Yes sceleratus except that the getter D home are not found or has too high a price


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





fatube said:


> hi sceleratus
> 
> ok thank ,
> my favorite
> ...


 
  I just got two sets of these in from France today.  I can't wait to listen to them!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





> RT E188CC  O GETTER
> 
> This is one fine "piece of glass"   Sorry, I love slang and stupid sayings.
> I love this tube and have 2 sets. 1967 and 1965.  Look for mid 1960's and ∆ symbol
> ...


 
  I have had 1960 Amprex USN 6922 D getters and
  1965 Amprex USN-CEP 6922 Large O getters  Both very nice.  As in real nice, "Top Shelf"
   
  I have a set of 1959 Valvo D getters made in Hamburg on the way.
  Those intrigue me.
   
  I'm a try something keep it if I like it then sell what doesn't fit my taste, guy.
  I have some PCC88 Lorenz Yugo's that sound very nice (will be selling) but I won't roll them in now
  that I have the RTC's  Same with the Valvo E88CC's that I'm selling (below)
   
  I don't experiment much with non mainstream tubes.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> What's the model on those Westinghouse tubes?


 
   
  They are 6BZ7 Westinghouse black plates that were made in the Hamilton Ontario factory in 1953. They are completely new and had been sitting in a carton for 60 years. They are simply the best sounding tubes I have ever heard, even including the ones I rolled in my 12AU7 days when I had a tube Hi Fi amp. They have all the dynamics and clarity that tubes should have with a pretty flat response and none of the stretched soundstage or bloated bass you often hear in old GE or other tubes. Often to me that sound signature is a sign the tubes were well used, and I try to stay away from used tubes.
   
  As soon as I heard these I went back and ordered more so I have a spare pair. I have no idea if the seller has any more of them available now.


----------



## jellofund

I'm gutted right now as one of my Bugle Boys has just suffered from a major league failure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  When I was burning them in last night the tube that handles the left channel started to give a continual low volume ring that was quite noticeable during quieter parts of tracks. I put it down to microphonics so swapped the tubes over and stuck the ringing tube into a 'dampened' (silicone filled) socket saver and that quietened it right down.
   
  Turned the amp on today and immediately noticed I wasn't getting any audio out of the right channel - the same tube that was ringing last night. Thought I'd try re-seating it and gently started to pull it out (and I do mean gently) only to find the top 70% of the glass came away in my hand leaving the bottom 30% and all the internals still in the socket saver. The top section of glass is completely intact and shows no cracking at all but on the bottom section there is a noticeable crack on both the front and back.
   
  The odd thing is that this part of the tube sits slightly recessed into the Lyr so really doubt my thumb and forefinger were holding the tube at that point or exerting enough inward pressure to cause the glass to break. Whilst I guess it is technically possible the fact the tube appeared to have already failed would indicate some other underlying cause.
   
  Has anyone had something similar happen to them or have an idea of what may have caused it e.g. defective tube, transit damage?
   
  Had to be the most expensive tube set too.......
   
  Cheers.


----------



## john57

Is the  damper metal or rubber like. Looks like the tube lost vacuum some time after the damper was put on and the glass was all cracked by the time your pull it out..


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Is the  damper metal or rubber like. Looks like the tube lost vacuum some time after the damper was put on and the glass was all cracked by the time your pull it out..


 

 Sorry I'm a bit new to this so damper probably wasn't the right terminology to use as I think that's a kind of rubber ring that slides over the tube itself?
   
  What I was actually using to stop the ringing was a Tubemonger socket saver that has is filled with silicone to dampen any vibration. I'll edit my earlier post to make that clearer to avoid any confusion!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

fatube said:


> Higuys
> 
> youtubeclccaboutiswhatthistube?
> 
> ...




I also like the Mullard RTC's. I have both these and the Dutch variety, and really like them both. The Mullards are best with the HD800's; they add a very pleasing touch of warmth to the upper bass and mids. The Heerlen RTC's are really excellent through the LCD-3's (haven't had a chance to try them with the HD800's yet).


----------



## NightFlight

Anyone have any RTC Mullard E188CC's and thoughts on them?
   
  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2pcs-RTC-Mullard-E188CC-7303-6922WA-Gold-Pins-ECC88-NOS-Matched-tubes-/390583755729?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5af09b23d1


----------



## NightFlight

Sorry. I've been skimming posts lately, and it shows.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I'm gutted right now as one of my Bugle Boys has just suffered from a major league failure
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I've had that happen to an Amperex Orange Globe 7308 and a Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88.  I used the tubes the evening before with no problem then the next day the bottoms were cracked (the orange globe just like you described).  There's really no way to tell (that I've found) that it's going to happen unless you can see a crack starting.
   
  All the Best,
  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

I should get my fixed Bifrost back tomorrow and will have a chance to listen to the RTC E188CCs I got in and...I managed to get a set of Mullard CV4109s like these: http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_p/2000m.htm
  I can only listen to them straight from my laptop headphone out right now but will try them with the uber Bifrost tomorrow (hopefully)...
   
  I'll post impressions after about 40-50 hours of burn-in.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I should get my fixed Bifrost back tomorrow and will have a chance to listen to the RTC E188CCs I got in and...I managed to get a set of Mullard CV4109s like these: http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_p/2000m.htm
> I can only listen to them straight from my laptop headphone out right now but will try them with the uber Bifrost tomorrow (hopefully)...
> 
> I'll post impressions after about 40-50 hours of burn-in.
> ...


 
  That should take, what, 20 minutes.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I've had that happen to an Amperex Orange Globe 7308 and a Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88.  I used the tubes the evening before with no problem then the next day the bottoms were cracked (the orange globe just like you described).  There's really no way to tell (that I've found) that it's going to happen unless you can see a crack starting.
> 
> All the Best,
> -HK sends


 

 Cheers HK_sends 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sorry to hear that you've experienced the same thing but it's at least re-assuring to hear that it's just one of these things that happens with tubes, rather than something I'd somehow done. To be honest even if I'd been on the ball I doubt I'd have even noticed the cracks beforehand as they're very fine and at a casual glance could pass for internal wires.
   
  I guess it demonstrates another benefit of using socket savers as otherwise the only way to remove the body of the tuve would've been to open up my amp.
   
  The ebayer I bought the BBs offers a 14 day guarantee on his tubes (refund or replacement tube if in stock) so going to see if he can help. Not 100% sure if this kind of failure is covered but no harm in asking.
   
  I don't want to embarrass him (touch wood) but just want to say a huge thanks to sceleratus who very kindly offered to donate me some nice tubes to help ease the pain. I'll see how I get on with the seller first but either way I'm bowled over by the gesture!




   
   
  Tube lovers avert your eyes now:


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I'm gutted right now as one of my Bugle Boys has just suffered from a major league failure
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Man, that sucks!  I feel your pain!  Who did you get the tubes from?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Cheers HK_sends
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  At least you'll have a really cool paper weight!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> That should take, what, 20 minutes.


 
  Listening to the RTC E188CC tubes last night; even without the Bifrost, I could hear the tubes opening up as they lulled me to sleep.  I am really looking forward to getting things back in order so I can listen to these tubes reach their full potential!
   
  I listened to the CV4109s for about 20 minutes to ensure they were working and couldn't believe my ears at the warmth and lushness.  I'll follow up on those too...
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> At least you'll have a really cool paper weight!


 
   
  Cool and expensive ...


----------



## fatube

Hi

  Indeed, cela my ever happened until this bizarre? It heats much your tubes are in class A have an infrared thermometer or multimeter!

  careful with your ring around the tube this clears the registration, the tube is losing its values!

  to have less microphone tube must be that the heater filament is maintained by a spring in L-form on mica top, I put a picture later

  R - scott thanks for your info, I knows not the CCL E188cc rtc we cest the best the RTC E 188cc looking very, very expensive €200 the pair

  Be careful on ebay many tube are used has the rope, until you can see the measures to the amperometer, mercedesman but a video may unfortunately not with the tube concerned


----------



## fatube

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> They are 6BZ7 Westinghouse black plates that were made in the Hamilton Ontario factory in 1953. They are completely new and had been sitting in a carton for 60 years. They are simply the best sounding tubes I have ever heard, even including the ones I rolled in my 12AU7 days when I had a tube Hi Fi amp. They have all the dynamics and clarity that tubes should have with a pretty flat response and none of the stretched soundstage or bloated bass you often hear in old GE or other tubes. Often to me that sound signature is a sign the tubes were well used, and I try to stay away from used tubes.
> 
> As soon as I heard these I went back and ordered more so I have a spare pair. I have no idea if the seller has any more of them available now.


 
  Hi sanlitun

  Attention the 12au7 or 12ax7 is not compatible with an E88CC gold ECC88 have anything I disadvise to you you'll blown your tube or transformer!


----------



## fatube

I understand how have little to buy a pair of tube and grind them just 3 hours? After 4 h change, after 8 hour yet it changes, then 24 hours, 48 hours this stabilizes in l acute and after 70 hours the grave begins with appear, minimum 100 hours see 200 h not before
   
  the tube power ps-vanne gold ,shuguang request 300 h hours of break-in
   
  but 3 hours cest n ' anything sorry!


----------



## HK_sends

I've been told that tubes need anything from 30-40 hours to up to 100 hours for break/burn in.  I'm not sure, but I know that I enjoy them even after as few as 20 hours.  I like listening for the changes that occur (granted some of it is my getting used to the sound).  But I noticed a significant change in the RTCs last night, even after as few as three hours.
   
  But that's all IMHO and YMMV!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

i'd say 12 hours you can see what direction they are going in, that's usually enough to soften the treble, open up the soundstage and remove the muddyness.
   
  Anything after that is small changes i reckon.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> i'd say 12 hours you can see what direction they are going in, that's usually enough to soften the treble, open up the soundstage and remove the muddyness.
> 
> Anything after that is small changes i reckon.


 
  Sounds reasonable.  I can't wait to see how these Mullard CV4109s develop! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## fatube

Hi

  HK-sends


  You made as you want, me I made at least 100 h, will find you most of the time that serious n is not terrible normal, it just after 70 hours

  100heures is a minimum

  I just install an E88cc roder 200 h after you test the 6BQ7A GE top tube as good as the ultra best detail, excellent low dynamic I me regia

  and well I can say that the E88c are not musical c ultra is aggressive in high medium, everything I knew, but I just realized a new

  This confirms me again once the ECC88 are the best in terms of musicality

  I know more that told on this foreum but the qi tubes knows guy I know Mscary or you


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Cheers HK_sends
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  dandy earrings.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> That should take, what, 20 minutes.


 
 Listening to the RTC E188CC tubes last night; even without the Bifrost, I could hear the tubes opening up as they lulled me to sleep.  I am really looking forward to getting things back in order so I can listen to these tubes reach their full potential!
  
 I listened to the CV4109s for about 20 minutes to ensure they were working and couldn't believe my ears at the warmth and lushness.  I'll follow up on those too...
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends
   
  It was a feeble attempt at "Yogi Berra" style humor.


----------



## fatube

Me also j ' appreciates the tubes for years, everything is a tube with me!

  including the change in tone according to the tubes and their running

  the problem on the tube and the serious round about, but it  is difficult to also sometimes as the transistor!

  between heat and electric, many amps a tubes and 2 drives consumption tube!


----------



## fatube

the first time I see it? It looks like as it was cut the lightsaber of luck sykwalker

  your really not chance or so c is interior of the casing that heats the base of the tube?

  for tubes there are 2 school, music lover tubes and tubes audiophyle

  the melomane  are Brimard, Mullard, Amperex bugle boy, Philips and RCA: fluid , opening, this dense medium, heat, fluidity, openness, depth!

  the Audiophile telefunken, siemens, amperex 6922, 7398, valvo stuggard not test yet, tunsgram, RTC E188cc, Amperex frame, 6bq7a GE, Mazda and others not yet discovered!

  I could listen all las days the 6bq7a is the Amperex frame step an ounce aggressiveness


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Listening to the RTC E188CC tubes last night; even without the Bifrost, I could hear the tubes opening up as they lulled me to sleep.  I am really looking forward to getting things back in order so I can listen to these tubes reach their full potential!
> 
> I listened to the CV4109s for about 20 minutes to ensure they were working and couldn't believe my ears at the warmth and lushness.  I'll follow up on those too...
> Cheers!
> ...


 
  I know...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





fatube said:


> Hi
> 
> HK-sends
> 
> ...


 
  That makes sense.  Tubes always seem to sound better each time I sit to listen to them.  I don't think there's any set amount of hours for them to open up.  Just like my LCD-2s...they have at least 150 hours on them and they are still improving!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

If you want to "geek out" on valves, get this book..
   
Valve Amplifiers, 4th Edition by Morgan Jones


----------



## Sanlitun

Socket savers - So what are you guys using and what is the best for both sound quality and saving my sockets?
   
  Since the Bifrost upgrade I've been OCD rolling and I suppose it's time to think about wear on the sockets.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Socket savers - So what are you guys using and what is the best for both sound quality and saving my sockets?
> 
> Since the Bifrost upgrade I've been OCD rolling and I suppose it's time to think about wear on the sockets.


 
  I use the socket savers from TubeMonger:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
   
  I tried cheap ones from E-bay but I like the TubeMonger ones best.  And, since you are thinking of socket savers, you might want to consider dampers:
   
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I use the socket savers from TubeMonger:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
> 
> ...


 
   
  those socket savers are a bit expensive but if you search eBay, you can find ones that have cosmetic defects (which you don't see when they are in use anyway) for a bit less.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> those socket savers are a bit expensive but if you search eBay, you can find ones that have cosmetic defects (which you don't see when they are in use anyway) for a bit less.


 
  True.  Or get them here:
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib-cos.htm
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Man, that sucks!  I feel your pain!  Who did you get the tubes from?


 
  Thanks for the morale support!
   
  I got them from mercedesman and have to say that since I contacted him he's been very helpful and has lived up to his (well earned) reputation for great customer service. He's going to ship me a replacement tube to replace the defective one so pretty pleased with the outcome.
   
  I'm allowed to keep the old one so keep the creative ideas coming - I'll need to try and make the best one a reality!
   
   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> At least you'll have a really cool paper weight!


 
   
  ^
  I like this idea a lot. If there's a way to get the tube encased into clear acrylic / perspex then I think it'd look rather cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> dandy earrings.


 
  ^
  I don't think they'd suit me and if I gave them to my Wife (who puts up with my hobbies & geek talk) it might just be the final straw......
   
   
  Quote: 





fatube said:


> the first time I see it? It looks like as it was cut the lightsaber of luck sykwalker
> 
> your really not chance or so c is interior of the casing that heats the base of the tube?


 
   




   
  It certainly smelt like it had been cut by a lightsaber. 
   
  The tube was sitting on top of a socket saver and was mostly sticking outside the case with plenty of airflow, so think it was probably just one of these freak 'one off' things rather than anything more serious. If it happens again though then I'll definitely start to get worried!


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Thanks for the morale support!
> 
> I got them from mercedesman and have to say that since I contacted him he's been very helpful and has lived up to his (well earned) reputation for great customer service. He's going to ship me a replacement tube to replace the defective one so pretty pleased with the outcome.


 
  He is a a great guy to deal with, he will get you new ones quick.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> He is a a great guy to deal with, he will get you new ones quick.


 
  +1!  He is great to deal with!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Listening to the RTC E188CC tubes last night; even without the Bifrost, I could hear the tubes opening up as they lulled me to sleep.  I am really looking forward to getting things back in order so I can listen to these tubes reach their full potential!
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


 
  Did you get the LaRadiotechniques?


----------



## sceleratus

hk_sends said:


> I use the socket savers from TubeMonger:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
> 
> ...




+1
Tubemonger rocks.
There are times you have to pay full boat


----------



## sceleratus

fearless1 said:


> Did you get the LaRadiotechniques?




Fearless1 !!!
The Godfather of RTC's....

You came out of hibernation.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Fearless1 !!!
> The Godfather of RTC's....
> 
> You came out of hibernation.


 
  Lol, I found what I was looking for! I still check back to this thread occasionally to see if anything new was uncovered, but I saw RTC and just had to post!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have been*****lowers head in shame***** on a solid state kick as of late. Still have one Lyr and two sets of the RTC's when the mood strikes.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Lol, I found what I was looking for! I still check back to this thread occasionally to see if anything new was uncovered, but I saw RTC and just had to post!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  heathen


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Did you get the LaRadiotechniques?


 
  Yes, I snagged a couple of sets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Lol, I found what I was looking for! I still check back to this thread occasionally to see if anything new was uncovered, but I saw RTC and just had to post!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Heresy!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## R Scott Ireland

hk_sends said:


> I use the socket savers from TubeMonger:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
> 
> ...




+1 Tubemonger socket savers - excellent. I use both Noval and Octal ones and they make tube rolling much easier. Almost a required accessory for the Lyr, but very beneficial with other amps too.

+1 Herbie's tube dampeners (I like the Rx version with the soft grommets).


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> +1 Tubemonger socket savers - excellent. I use both Noval and Octal ones and they make tube rolling much easier. Almost a required accessory for the Lyr, but very beneficial with other amps too.
> 
> +1 Herbie's tube dampeners (I like the Rx version with the soft grommets).


 
  Just ordered a pair of the Noval.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

gerald410 said:


> Just ordered a pair of the Noval.




Good decision! I think you will be very happy with them!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





>


 
  Superglue it back together and it will make a nice Christmas tree ornament


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Listening to the RTC E188CC tubes last night; even without the Bifrost, I could hear the tubes opening up as they lulled me to sleep.  I am really looking forward to getting things back in order so I can listen to these tubes reach their full potential!
> 
> I listened to the CV4109s for about 20 minutes to ensure they were working and couldn't believe my ears at the warmth and lushness.  I'll follow up on those too...
> Cheers!
> ...


 

 As a lover of the CV-2493's, I am supremely jealous of those CV4109's!
   
  Please, let me know how they sound, will you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers, JC


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> As a lover of the CV-2493's, I am supremely jealous of those CV4109's!
> 
> Please, let me know how they sound, will you?
> 
> ...


 
  Will do!  My Bifrost delivery was delayed...hopefully, it will get here tomorrow and I can really give them a listen.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Thanks for the morale support!
> 
> I got them from mercedesman and have to say that since I contacted him he's been very helpful and has lived up to his (well earned) reputation for great customer service. He's going to ship me a replacement tube to replace the defective one so pretty pleased with the outcome.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I'm glad to hear you got it from Mercedesman!    As soon as I read that I knew he'd take care of you.
   
  It's good to remember that we're dealing with some very old devices (if we're lucky) and that sometimes things can fail. Those glass envelopes are exposed to heat a lot, so it's not all that unusual to hear of tubes failing like that.
   
  I'm looking forward to hearing how you like the replacement tube.


----------



## nelamvr6

I am currently on the road, in Washington State, my RTC tubes may very well have arrived in my mailbox by now.  But I unfortunately have to wait to receive them.
   
  So, until I get home and burn in those RTCs, Amperex Orange Globes still reign supreme in my world!


----------



## Mando323

New Lyr owner coming through! Just won it on ebay for 346 dollars. I am a very happy man.


----------



## fatube

hi nelamvr6
   
   I understand CCF you mean RTC  or the non purchaser on ebay of store

  http://www.fearless1.com/

  him?


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





fatube said:


> hi nelamvr6
> 
> I understand CCF you mean RTC  or the non purchaser on ebay of store
> 
> ...


 
  Lol, nope


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





mando323 said:


> New Lyr owner coming through! Just won it on ebay for 346 dollars. I am a very happy man.


 
  Enjoy!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Lol, nope


 
  come on !
   
  that's you !  where's my six???


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





fatube said:


> hi nelamvr6
> 
> I understand CCF you mean RTC  or the non purchaser on ebay of store
> 
> ...


 
   
  .


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





mando323 said:


> New Lyr owner coming through! Just won it on ebay for 346 dollars. I am a very happy man.


 
   
  Congrats!


----------



## fatube

is no me


----------



## sceleratus

Just found these up in the magic attic.
   
  Valvo, 1959, Hamburg, PCC88, D-getter


----------



## sceleratus

Ok....
  The valves pictured above....
  I wasn't going to buy them but they were toooo cheap to pass up and I got to check two boxes in one purchase.
  Valves from Deutschland and Valves made in the 50's.  I didn't have either.
   
  No way I thought they would touch the RTC's
   
  This glass should be illegal.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Ok....
> The valves pictured above....
> I wasn't going to buy them but they were toooo cheap to pass up and I got to check two boxes in one purchase.
> Valves from Deutschland and Valves made in the 50's.  I didn't have either.
> ...


 
  That good, huh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Oh. My


----------



## ilikepooters

Not sure if they are the same, but i snagged a pair of Valvo D getters real cheap, used though so might not have a lot of life left, but still, can't complain at the price.
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140949162743?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## ilikepooters

A whole lot of socket savers turned up today.
   
   

   
  I'll set to work making some of my adaptors tomorrow.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> +1 Tubemonger socket savers - excellent. I use both Noval and Octal ones and they make tube rolling much easier. Almost a required accessory for the Lyr, but very beneficial with other amps too.
> 
> +1 Herbie's tube dampeners (I like the Rx version with the soft grommets).


 
   
  Personally, I think good feet on the amp itself is more important than either of the above. I use these Sorbothane feet and am pretty happy with them-
   
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003IMSIBA/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003IMSIBA&linkCode=as2&tag=tt-20
   
  They are really sticky though so I cut little squares of plastic wrap and put that in between the tabletop and them, works great. 
   
  This not to say the socket savers and tube dampeners don't help but good vibration reducing feet do more to de-couple the amp from the tabletop/shelf. I personally don't use tube dampeners because I think I have enough vibration dampening with the socket savers and Sorbothane feet. Plus, I don't like way the tube dampeners look.


----------



## ilikepooters

I've started on my converters today, thought i'd post a little tutorial if anyone fancies a go themselves instead of buying them from me.
   
  We start off with one cheap chinese socket saver, i managed to buy 20 of these for about £16, so not much each really.
   

   
  We need to take it apart and cut off pins 5+9, and then bridge pins 4+5 together with a blob of solder.
   

   
  Next, i have put it back together so you can see which pins have been cut. This will be the top part of the adaptor.
   

   
  We actually need to use pin 5 in the socket, but we cut off pin 5. So we need another socket saver and a simple modification, taking one of the pins we cut off, we need to insert it into pin 5 in another socket saver and solder into place. I overfilled it with solder so we have something to solder our wire to when we correct the internal connections, but this presents a problem because now when we put other socket saver on top, big blob of solder is in the way.
   

   
  We just need to drill out a bigger hole in the top socket saver to accomodate the solder and let everything sit flush.
   

   
  Here's some tops and bottoms i prepared earlier...
   

   
  Now we need to mount top and bottom together, and then put some electrical tape around them to keep everything lined up while we work on the next stage.
   

   

   

   
  Now it's taped together we can unplug the top bit so we can get to the inside.
   

   
  Now we need a small piece of wire.
   

   
  Strip the ends.
   

   
  Solder it to pin 5.
   

   
  Other end solders to pin 9 that we cut off, now we can re-assemble and test our handiwork.
   

   
  Need a multimeter, mines only a cheapo but it does the job, we need to do a continuity check to make sure everything is connected where it's supposed to be with no shorts.
   
   


   
  Bridge pins 4+5 together and we should hear beeping.
   

   
  Can't show the next bit properly, need 3 hands, but insert a probe into pin 9 in the top, and then somehow hold it there will touching the other probe to pin 5 on the bottom, again should hear beeping.
   

   
   
  Everything checks out, that means our adaptor is complete.
  I intend to remove the electrical tape because it's not really an ideal long term fastening, i've got some heat-shrink tubing on the way that is glue lined, that stuff should give the adaptors a better finish and hold them together for a long time, should get that next week sometime and will give me a chance to play with my new heatgun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Here's my nice and messy workspace while i was doing the adaptors.
   

   
   
  I'll be putting the adaptors on ebay soon for about $5 a pair, this is a little bit less than what it cost me to make them, but only a little bit, so i don't mind.
  It will let you use the following tube types in your Lyr:
   
  E80CC
  E81CC
  E812CC
  E813CC
  ECC81
  ECC82
  ECC83
  ECC801S
  12AU7
  12AT7
  12AX7
  12DT7
   
  Probably more that i can't remember.
   
  They will be running out of spec, but people have been having success with PCC88 and ECC85 and those aren't specced for the Lyr either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  These will be available once i get the heatshrink tubing and finish them off.


----------



## NightFlight

That would allow the curious to try out some cheap, slightly out of spec tubes. Neat. These are known as tube flippers? You'd have to be careful and remember not to accidently roll in a 6DJ8!


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> That would allow the curious to try out some cheap, slightly out of spec tubes. Neat. These are known as tube flippers? You'd have to be careful and remember not to accidently roll in a 6DJ8!


 
   
  Yeah that could be bad, using a 6DJ8/ECC88 in these would mean the shield is connected to a heater supply, don't know how that would end up, either tube goes pop or Lyr goes pop i reckon.


----------



## Sanlitun

Anyone made any changes since the Bifrost Uber upgrade?  
   
  I was finding most of my previous tubes too bright since the upgrade and have moved back to my trusty 1965 6BZ7 GE set.
   
  Dunno where or if I will try my luck again.


----------



## mhamel

Ahh, eBay strikes again.
   
  Received a set of Telam ECC85s today... from Poland... in an envelope, not a box... the tubes weren't even in boxes, and they had basically one layer of almost-entirely-popped bubble wrap around them.  
   
  Somewhat surprisingly, they're intact.   I haven't had a chance to roll them in yet to see if they still work.... hopefully they will.
   
   
      -Mike


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Ahh, eBay strikes again.
> 
> Received a set of Telam ECC85s today... from Poland... in an envelope, not a box... the tubes weren't even in boxes, and they had basically one layer of almost-entirely-popped bubble wrap around them.
> 
> ...


 
  I hope they work for you...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## mhamel

Good news!  
   
  Not only do they work, they sound amazing.   Easily holding their own against the much more expensive stuff in my collection.   '68 Amperex 7308s, RTC/Amperex E188CCs, early 60s Mullard 6DJ8s, CV2493s and a few others.
   
  On another note, I've come into a fairly large quantity of tubes that will work in the Lyr of various types/brands.    I'm ordering a tester today and will hopefully putting a bunch of reasonably-priced tubes up for sale in the next few weeks.
   
   
         -Mike
   
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I hope they work for you...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


----------



## ilikepooters

Just a quick review.
   
  For the people that will be having a set of my adaptors, the tubes i recommend to use first are the Tungsram E80CC
   

  They are my favourites of all the tubes i've tried so far, and can be found quite cheap for a pair on ebay, although there aren't many pairs available at the moment.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=tungsram+e80cc&LH_PrefLoc=2
   
  The sound seems very neutral, bass and mids are in good proportion, if anything i would say the mids have slightly more presence than the bass, treble is lovely and smooth and airy.
  Soundstage isn't their strongest point, but it doesn't let them down, seems to have just the right amount of space, deffinitely not closed in.
   
  They are not ultra detailed, i find myself switching back and forth between my D1 and my Lyr with these tubes in to compare them, D1 seems very precise and cold sounding, these tubes present a slight fuzzyness, like a kind of lazyness to the sound, they are still a detailed tube, but softly so, quite hard to describe. I think this is due to running them out of spec, they are described as ultra detailed by many people that have used them, but they aren't using them in the same way that we are.
   
  They are a very quiet tube, zero microphonics, that is probably thanks to the individually boxed anodes that is a characteristic of this family of tubes. I can only hear a low humming sound when i plug really sensitive headphones into my Lyr (Yes i had a mad moment and plugged in the UM Miracles) But anything else that requires a good amount of juice (Planars, etc) it is a pitch black, quiet background.
   
  I think for the price, this is one that is well worth having in the collection.
   
*Disclaimer: DO NOT plug E80CC straight into your Lyr, they are NOT pin compatible and need an adaptor (pictured) to make them work.*


----------



## mhamel

New toy on the way  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ...as if my audio gear hobby hasn't burned enough holes in my wallet already.
   

   
http://www.maximatcher.com/maxipreamp.html
   
  Along with a set of 4 9AJ adapters.   
   
  It was either this or the Tube Imp, but I like that it does 4 at once, tests noise and has audio outputs for an actual listening test.
   
     -Mike


----------



## ilikepooters

I've been looking at the Tube Imp, would be nice to have one to see if the ebay sellers really are matching their tubes properly.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I'm glad to hear you got it from Mercedesman!    As soon as I read that I knew he'd take care of you.
> 
> It's good to remember that we're dealing with some very old devices (if we're lucky) and that sometimes things can fail. Those glass envelopes are exposed to heat a lot, so it's not all that unusual to hear of tubes failing like that.
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing how you like the replacement tube.


 
   
  I think you originally posted the link to the ebay listing so I figured I would be in good hands.
   
  I'm really not surprised to hear that tubes fail relatively commonly considering the age. Heck most of the stuff made these days doesn't last more than 5 minutes! I have to say that I regularly have a 'wow' moment when I remember that the tubes I have plugged in were made around the time the Beatles were still together, before man landed on the moon etc. 50 year old components in a modern bit of kit - mad really 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I did really like the BB's from the brief (25 hours or so) time I spent with them, so will be glad to get a working pair again. Pretty happy with the Brimar's I had to fall back on though.
   
  Even though I got a replacement BB sceleratus still went ahead and sent me the pair of Lorenz PCC88's he'd offered if I got stuck. Incredibly generous of him and I'm really looking forward to trying them out!
   
   
  Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Here's my nice and messy workspace while i was doing the adaptors.


 
   
  You really can't underestimate the importance of a good cup of tea / coffee to any D.I.Y. project 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





mhamel said:


> New toy on the way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I did wonder how much these things cost. Not cheap but if you do a lot of tube rolling, buying or selling then I can imagine it will be money well spent.
   
   
  Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I've been looking at the Tube Imp, would be nice to have one to see if the ebay sellers really are matching their tubes properly.


 
   
  That's something that struck me when looking at a lot of ebay listings. You're never sure if they've done the matching using a tester, by ear, coin flip etc. 
   
   
  I had a bit of a holy schiit moment earlier when I spotted this listing in trading: http://www.head-fi.org/t/663708/matched-pairs-or-quads-of-nos-siemens-halske-cca-e88cc-6dj8-silver-shield-1960s-superb-condition
   
  60 pairs and judging by the pics they look as good as the day they were made.....wow! Well out of my price range but maybe one day.


----------



## gerald410

I got a pair of socket savers today, and if I didn't know any better my Orange Globes now have more detail!.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> New toy on the way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Awesome!


----------



## sceleratus

Speaking of tester and analyzers.....
   
  Valve analyzer rev 1 wasn't feasible.  It used an autotransformer with mains voltage in the circuit.  Although I got it working, it was too dangerous.
   
  Rev 2 components are already arriving.  I will implement test points across gird/cathode/plate for integration with a curve tracer, oscilloscope and DMM, as well as having dedicated panel meters.   Easily another 90 days to proto-board, simulate, finish and etch the PCB.  I have some small daughter boards for voltage regulation that have SMD components.  I going to give soldering them a try tomorrow.  It will be a challenge with my shaky hands.
   
  All the components are rated for high wattage and 1% tolerance or better.  I am also implementing EMI filtering/chokes on all the leads.
  Here's the old panel design, it will change considerably.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Speaking of tester and analyzers.....
> 
> Valve analyzer rev 1 wasn't feasible.  It used an autotransformer with mains voltage in the circuit.  Although I got it working, it was too dangerous.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I have faith!  It's gonna be awesome!


----------



## Mando323

Can't afford a Bifrost right now, and was considering te Modi. Do you guys think this is a good idea? Maybe buy the Bifrost a year or so from now.


Edit: I should state that this is to pair with my Lyr and Hd 650's.


----------



## tuna47

Do you need to warm up tubes before use, if so for how long


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





mando323 said:


> Can't afford a Bifrost right now, and was considering te Modi. Do you guys think this is a good idea? Maybe buy the Bifrost a year or so from now.


 
   
  I'm thinking the very same thing and would love to know the answer. I've just bought the LYR to drive my HD650s and I'm wondering if the modi would be an adequate stand in, until I can afford the Bifrost?


----------



## tuna47

Use the odac does a real good job


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Do you need to warm up tubes before use, if so for how long


 
  About 20 minutes warm up is plenty for most tubes. I've found that some others like ECC85 require about an hour or more.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Use the odac does a real good job


 

 +1
   
  I have the Epiphany Acoustics version (E-DAC as they like to call it) and am very pleased with it when using my Lyr with either my Denon D2000s or HD600s. For me it's definitely good enough to tide me over until I can afford to upgrade.
   
  The thing that swayed me towards the ODAC over the Modi is that it is powered purely by USB, which is great if sockets are at a premium.


----------



## ilikepooters

Amperex Holland 6DJ8 PQ shield (Tekronix Checked) turned up today.
   

   

   
   
   
  Oh.. My.. Word....
   
  I don't think the words have been invented yet to describe the sound, they are THAT good.
   
  Can't believe i got these for only £35 posted.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I've started on my converters today, thought i'd post a little tutorial if anyone fancies a go themselves instead of buying them from me.
> 
> We start off with one cheap chinese socket saver, i managed to buy 20 of these for about £16, so not much each really.
> 
> ether, and then put some electrical tape around them to keep everything lined up while we work on the next stage.


 
   
   
   
  Hi,
  9 pin receiving valves are quite sensitive to EMI.  As such, I am implementing these ferrite beads in my tester on each pin.
  Not sure you have the room in your adapters but I thought you might be interested.  I use 21 ga solid wire 0.057"


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Amperex Holland 6DJ8 PQ shield (Tekronix Checked) turned up today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   





   
  Philips made some really nice glass, no doubt about that!


----------



## GrindingThud

Told ya..... 



ilikepooters said:


> Amperex Holland 6DJ8 PQ shield (Tekronix Checked) turned up today.
> 
> Oh.. My.. Word....
> 
> ...


----------



## Mediahound

I saw this on the Woo Audio site, does the same thing apply to the Lyr? 
   
   
   
  "17. Can I leave the amp on whole day long?
   
  Never and never leave your amp on unattended. Due to various reasons such as power supply over-heating or tube failure, your amplifier can cause serious damage. For the safest use, please do NOT exceed maximum 10 hours of play time. Let the amplifier cool down completely for next listening session."
   
  http://wooaudio.com/faq/#14


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I saw this on the Woo Audio site, does the same thing apply to the Lyr?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If they're serious they're totally full of ****!
   
  Before the 60's/70's, ALL electronics were based on tubes.  That includes mission critical military electronics. Can you imagine an electronics technician in the US Navy trying to explain to an Admiral how he had to turn his radio off after 10 hours?  Wouldn't happen! 
   
  Think of all of those vacuum tubes in huge computer mainframes,,, think they ever turned them off?
   
  This is total horse****.  I have left my Lyr on for 48 hours at a time while burning in tubes with absolutely no ill effects.
   
  I wouldn't recommend leaving it on if you weren't doing something like burning in tubes simply because you'd be needlessly raising your electric bill and burning hours off your tube's lifespan.  But if you're listening or burning in, I see no reason to put a time limit on your usage.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> If they're serious they're totally full of ****!
> 
> Before the 60's/70's, ALL electronics were based on tubes.  That includes mission critical military electronics. Can you imagine an electronics technician in the US Navy trying to explain to an Admiral how he had to turn his radio off after 10 hours?  Wouldn't happen!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, makes sense.


----------



## Mando323

So right now that I don't have a DAC, I am not really sure how to connect my Lyr to the computer. I tried hooking them up to the back RCA plugs on the PC, but nothing. Anyone know? Used my E9 and e7 before this.


----------



## Thaddy

I recently got a some new preamp tubes for my Woo Audio WA2 and wanted to share some impressions.  Since the Schiit Lyr uses the same tubes, I figured I'd share my thoughts within this thread to give you an idea how some of these tubes sound to a seasoned WA2 owner.  All listening was done with RFT EZ81 rectifiers and Tung Sol 7236 power tubes, with both the HD600's and HD650's.  This has been my setup for about 4 years now so I'm pretty accustomed to how everything sounds.
   
*Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 - A Frame*
  These are both from 1973 and made in the Heerlen plant in Holland.
   
  I consider this to be a great tube for the HD600's, as they have a bit more lower end punch and a super smooth and lush midrange.  Yet, they still have a great airy top end.  They are the Sennheiser of tubes!  With the HD650's, they sound a bit too warm for my liking.  They are still incredibly detailed and provide good separation, however I wouldn't consider these to be perfect all-around tubes and prefer listening to them with my HD600's.
   
  I find myself listening to these tubes when I just want to space out and listen to music.  They're so far from being fatiguing that I could spend days listening to these.
   
   
*RTC E188CC Green Label - Large "O" Getter*
  These were loaned to me by an awesome Head-Fi'er (sceleratus).  These babies are from 1965, and from what I can tell, were made in a Phillips-owned factory in Suresnes, France.  sceleratus may be able to confirm that.
   
  To my ears, these aren't quite as warm and lush as the Amperex's.  However, the first thing I noticed was the _incredible _detail and separation between each instrument.
   
  #36, a track from Disc 2 of Dave Matthews Band "Live at Red Rocks" album starts out with a really good drum solo.  It was super easy to pick out the location of each strike, yet they are accurate enough as to not drown out the delicate high hats while Carter Beauford is wailing away on the kick drum.  Hands down the best I've ever heard this track reproduced.
   
  While they sound great with the HD600's, I think they're better suited to the HD650's.  Also, unlike the Amperex Orange Globes, it took some time for me to really appreciate what they have to offer.  These tubes are truly a treat, and probably one of the best I've ever heard.
   
   
*Valvo E88CC - Large "O" Getter*
  These are from 1960 and 1964, and were also made in the Heerlen plant.
   
  These tubes seem to combine my favorite things from both the Amperex 6DJ8's and RTC E188CC's.  They are incredibly airy and delicate, yet have a touch more body and a warmer midrange than the RTC E188CC's, slightly reminiscent of the Amperex 6DJ8's.  I've always preferred the HD650's over the HD600's, however with these tubes driving my HD600's I honestly can't find a single flaw and find them to be a perfect match, just like the RTC's and the HD650's.  For those that enjoy the Sennheiser sound signature, these tubes are a must have.  After listening to the RTC's, I was bummed that I'd eventually have to return them.  The Valvo's changed that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And of course the trio, from left to right...Amperex 6DJ8 *->* RTC E188CC *->* Valvo E88CC


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mando323 said:


> So right now that I don't have a DAC, I am not really sure how to connect my Lyr to the computer. I tried hooking them up to the back RCA plugs on the PC, but nothing. Anyone know? Used my E9 and e7 before this.


 
  Use your Headphone Out jack with an adapter cable.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Excellent impressions, Thaddy!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





mando323 said:


> So right now that I don't have a DAC, I am not really sure how to connect my Lyr to the computer. I tried hooking them up to the back RCA plugs on the PC, but nothing. Anyone know? Used my E9 and e7 before this.


 
http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Stereo-Design-accommodates-SmartPhones/dp/B004YEBK66/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1368687873&sr=8-2&keywords=3.5mm+to+rca


----------



## jellofund

Thanks for the impressions Thaddy.
   
  I may need to check out the Valvos at some point down the line as I have a pair of HD600s. With the tubes I've tried so far (not many admittedly) the 600's do sound good but I feel, rightly or wrongly, that there is some untapped potential. On the other hand my Denon D2000's sound great with almost anything I throw at them which wasn't something I'd been expecting at all. Sure there's some background noise at quieter moments but they have a nice almost live feel which I'm really digging.
   
  With the Valvo tubes are there different 'grades' as looking on ebay 1960's large O getters seem to vary quite dramatically in price from $50ish to well over the $200 mark? I've noticed that some have a box similar to the one pictured above (red tube on yellow background) whereas others have a two-tone blue / yellow box. Is that a way to identify the better ones or is there something else to look out for e.g. marking on the tube or factory that made them?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## ilikepooters

That's the only negative with Lyr, anything low impedence and easy to drive picks up a lot of tube noise.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Thanks for the impressions Thaddy.
> 
> I may need to check out the Valvos at some point down the line as I have a pair of HD600s. With the tubes I've tried so far (not many admittedly) the 600's do sound good but I feel, rightly or wrongly, that there is some untapped potential. On the other hand my Denon D2000's sound great with almost anything I throw at them which wasn't something I'd been expecting at all. Sure there's some background noise at quieter moments but they have a nice almost live feel which I'm really digging.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
[size=10pt]Tubes from the Heerlen plant were sold with a bunch of different labels, like Amperex, Miniwatt, Philips, Bugle Boy, and also relabeled by various Philips associates or companies owned by Philips like Balvo, Mullard, La Radiotechnique RTC, Siemens, and Adzam.  The Valvo's with red labels were for industrial use and went throuhgh additional testing.  I'd keep an eye out for the late 60's to early 70's models with gold pins and the large "halo" or "O" getter.  I'm not sure about the history behind the boxes, but both seem to be authentic.  If you want to make sure you get a quality E88CC, I would stick to a trusted dealer like Brent Jesse or TubeMonger.  I've had great experiences with both.[/size]


----------



## Mando323

ilikepooters said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Stereo-Design-accommodates-SmartPhones/dp/B004YEBK66/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1368687873&sr=8-2&keywords=3.5mm+to+rca




Hah, funny thin is I bought one and no avail. I then hooked up a regular 3.5 Mm cord and nothing. Going to mess around with my pc tomorrow.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mando323 said:


> Hah, funny thin is I bought one and no avail. I then hooked up a regular 3.5 Mm cord and nothing. Going to mess around with my pc tomorrow.


 
  You might have to activate your headphone-out in software.  I have to set the output to headphone with my Soundblaster Z Audio Card any time I want to use them.  Another possibility is the output might be muted.
  Good Luck!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## CraftyClown

Hi guys, please excuse what may be either an ignorant or stupid question, but as a new owner of a Schiit LYR, I was wondering if there were any particular tubes considered to sound fantastic with my HD 650s. I have purchased my LYR from another Head-Fi user and it is coming with JJ E88CC tubes  which I gather are rather on the warm side and not necesarily ideal for use with the 650s.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Hi guys, please excuse what may be either an ignorant or stupid question, but as a new owner of a Schiit LYR, I was wondering if there were any particular tubes considered to sound fantastic with my HD 650s. I have purchased my LYR from another Head-Fi user and it is coming with JJ E88CC tubes  which I gather are rather on the warm side and not necesarily ideal for use with the 650s.


 
   
The JJ's sound pretty thin from what others have said. But the HD650's are a fairly warm headphone, so could be just what they need?
   
  *EDIT* i might have them confused with another tube, this site has it completely differently: http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/JJ-E88CC-6922
   
   
   


> The JJ E88CC tube is a great alternative to ECC88, 6922 and 6DJ8's for preamplifiers if you are looking for a warmer, smoother sound at a low price.


 
   
   
  Depends if you want to maintain the sound as it is or completely change it.
   
  If you like the JJ's sound signature (according to their description) and want to improve, look for Amperex ECC88/6DJ8's made in Holland.
   
  *EDIT* for something nice and neutral, there was a big fuss made about the SEL Lorenz PCC88's a month or 2 ago, they are quite hard to get hold of now, but the following tubes are identical but with Philips branding: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCC88-PHILIPS-NOS-/260746635558?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3cb5b5e926
   
  SEL Lorenz PCC88 tubes were made in Nis, Yugoslavia tube factory with Philips tooling, those Phillips tubes were also made in the Yugoslavian factory, so i'll let you do the math


----------



## john57

I received my Lyr with the [size=11pt]GE 6BZ7[/size]GE stock tubes. I own several tube amps. It has been my experience that the JJ tubes tend to be somewhat colder sounding. JJ tubes could be better in QC and tend to be gassy in some cases that I measured on my tube tester. So far I find the [size=11pt]GE 6BZ7[/size] tube to be a bit softer sounding and not quite as dynamic as compared  to my other tube amps. I am waiting on delivery of type 3 6922 tubes to tray in addition to some of the NOS 6DJ8 tubes that I have on hand.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Hi guys, please excuse what may be either an ignorant or stupid question, but as a new owner of a Schiit LYR, I was wondering if there were any particular tubes considered to sound fantastic with my HD 650s. I have purchased my LYR from another Head-Fi user and it is coming with JJ E88CC tubes  which I gather are rather on the warm side and not necesarily ideal for use with the 650s.


 
  If you will look 9 posts back, Thaddy wrote a thorough writeup of 3 different valves with the HD-650


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> If you will look 9 posts back, Thaddy wrote a thorough writeup of 3 different valves with the HD-650


 
   
  Cheers, I did see that. Being new to the whole tube amp thing, I wasn't sure if there were any particular tubes that are always recommended for particular phones


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> *RTC E188CC Green Label - Large "O" Getter*
> These were loaned to me by an awesome Head-Fi'er (sceleratus).  These babies are from 1965, and from what I can tell, were made in a Phillips-owned factory in Suresnes, France.  sceleratus may be able to confirm that.
> 
> To my ears, these aren't quite as warm and lush as the Amperex's.  However, the first thing I noticed was the _incredible _detail and separation between each instrument.
> ...


 
   
   
  Thaddy, are these the same tubes you are loving with your 650s?
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E188CC-RTC-MULLARD-NOS-/310353960765?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item4842899f3d


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> *EDIT* for something nice and neutral, there was a big fuss made about the SEL Lorenz PCC88's a month or 2 ago, they are quite hard to get hold of now, but the following tubes are identical but with Philips branding: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCC88-PHILIPS-NOS-/260746635558?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3cb5b5e926
> 
> SEL Lorenz PCC88 tubes were made in Nis, Yugoslavia tube factory with Philips tooling, those Phillips tubes were also made in the Yugoslavian factory, so i'll let you do the math


 
   
  Cheers Pooters, I've ordered a pair of these


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Thaddy, are these the same tubes you are loving with your 650s?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E188CC-RTC-MULLARD-NOS-/310353960765?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item4842899f3d


 
   
  Those are good tubes from what i've read, but i think the better ones are the green label french ones, expensive though.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7441-RTC-MORE-AVAILABLE-/121103171111?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c324fbe27


----------



## CraftyClown

Cheers Pooters. I can see myself getting carried away here


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> *EDIT* for something nice and neutral, there was a big fuss made about the SEL Lorenz PCC88's a month or 2 ago, they are quite hard to get hold of now, but the following tubes are identical but with Philips branding: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCC88-PHILIPS-NOS-/260746635558?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3cb5b5e926
> 
> SEL Lorenz PCC88 tubes were made in Nis, Yugoslavia tube factory with Philips tooling, those Phillips tubes were also made in the Yugoslavian factory, so i'll let you do the math


 
  Funny you should mention these, because I got into a discussion with the fine folks at TubeMonger last night and they sent me some very good info.  It seems there are actually _*two*_ makers of the Lorenz SEL PCC88s; the folks at Nish, and the Telsa folks (in Hungary, I think).  That may account for some of the differences in opinion in the sound of the Lorenz SEL tubes.  Here's what they said:
   
  "_Because Lorenz Stuttgart stopped making tubes a lot earlier than other W. German factories. After merger*,Lorenz SEL label was used with tubes from all kinds of sources. That is why it is proper to Id the tubes as Ei or Tesla rather Lorenz SEL. It was just a label nothing else._
   
_*[size=small]History[/size]*
 [size=small]Two companies Mix & Genest and C. Lorenz were started in 1879. In 1875 Mix & Genest was merged with Standard Elektrizitäts-Gesellschaft (SEG) and in 1929 SEG was taken over by  International Telephone and Telegraph Company (ITT). SEG was renamed in Standard Elektrik AG in 1956 and in 1958 Standard Elekrik AG was merged with C. Lorenz AG in Standard Elektric Lorenz AG (SEL). C. Lorenz was a manufactory of  communication equipment and build radio in the 20-30s. Later 1960-1970 SEL has specialized their self in  satellite and space electronics. In 80s they had take over Graetz KG and moved a part of their business into the audio/video branch. In 1987 Nokia take over SEL.[/size]_
   


> _For example. Some Tesla PCC88 tubes are more desirable than the Tesla with Lorenz SEL label._
> _www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1019  is better than [size=large]http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=802[/size]_
> 
> _That is another reason there are different opinions on Lorenz SEL on Lyr because people are confusing tow separate tubes to be the same. Some users have the Tesla and some Ei_."
> ...


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Funny you should mention these, because I got into a discussion with the fine folks at TubeMonger last night and they sent me some very good info.  It seems there are actually _*two*_ makers of the Lorenz SEL PCC88s; the folks at Nish, and the Telsa folks (in Hungary, I think).  That way account for some of the differences in opinion in the sound of the Lorenz SEL tubes.  Here's what they said:
> 
> "_Because Lorenz Stuttgart stopped making tubes a lot earlier than other W. German factories. After merger*,Lorenz SEL label was used with tubes from all kinds of sources. That is why it is proper to Id the tubes as Ei or Tesla rather Lorenz SEL. It was just a label nothing else._
> 
> ...


 
   
  Have I just purchased some dead ducks then?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Thaddy, are these the same tubes you are loving with your 650s?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E188CC-RTC-MULLARD-NOS-/310353960765?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item4842899f3d


 
I'm going to throw in my 2¢ 
   
The, Mullard (Mitcham) RTC valves are 70's dimple getters (solid round bumpy disc at top).  See photo.
   
They sound nothing like the mid 60's RTC's made in Heerlen Netherlands.   However...  I have LCD2's.  I believe Senn owners like these.... a lot.   They are a gold pin valve (corrosion resistance) and have a rated life of 10,000 hours.
   

   
I have a very big bias towards 60's valves, but they cost significantly more but they a soft but detailed with a Big Voice.....Exception to price...Amperex Orange Globes.  Find some 67 - 65 under $100.
   
The Philips PCC88's look hard to beat for £15
  [size=medium]Little risk.  I haven't heard them.  I have had the Lorenz PC88 SEL's  $55 USD[/size]
  [size=medium]They had a very nice sound, musical, good definition and punch.  I would expect the Philips to sound as good or better.[/size]
  [size=medium]I did not own the Lorenz when I had my HD-650's but I'll bet they pair well.[/size]
   
Here's a document that I annotated that will help you decode the etchings on the valve.


----------



## ilikepooters

Oh, if you'd like to get carried away, look at some of these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Siemens-CCa-2pcs-Amplitrex-Tested-/290905396607?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43bb50157f
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Collectors-Items-dreamtubes-pair-2-VALVO-CCa-yellow-print-NOS-NIB-own-box-/200923819031?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2ec7fe2c17
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TELEFUNKEN-E88CC-ECC88-CCa-6DJ8-6922-ULM-GERMANY-1968-GOLD-PINS-MATCHED-/360598614430?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53f55a319e
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-CCa-Telefunken-with-diamond-E88CC-6922-NOS-rare-great-/111073241213?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Elektronenr%C3%B6hren_Valves&hash=item19dc7b287d
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mullard-E88CC-matched-pair-valves-AVO-tested-/271204162952?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3f25071d88
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMPEREX-PQ-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-GOLD-PIN-O-GETTER-1977-ORANGE-LABEL-PAIR-/221227037472?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item338228b320
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-LORENZ-BWB-PCC88-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-for-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-MILITARY-ISSUED-/290848900203?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43b7f2046b
   
  Some of those should make your eyes water, and don't forget, any tubes that you really like, it's always sensible to spend the money all over again so you have a back-up pair


----------



## Argo Duck

Dead ducks can be good eating. Duck a l'orange for example


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Have I just purchased some dead ducks then?


 
  I really don't think so.  Just give them some time to break-in and open up and you will probably enjoy the sound.  That's the problem with tube rolling...there's always something "better" out there.  All that matters is what your ears tell you.
  Right now these are my favorites: http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_p/2000m.htm
  But I spent over $4000 in tube rolling (just for the Lyr) to get there.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Have I just purchased some dead ducks then?


 
   
  If they turn out to be not to your taste, i will buy them off you for what you paid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Remember to burn them in, a good 24 hours with pink noise should get them going.


----------



## CraftyClown

Ha ha cheers guys.
   
  I don't think you've seen the last of me


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Those are good tubes from what i've read, but i think the better ones are the green label french ones, expensive though.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7441-RTC-MORE-AVAILABLE-/121103171111?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c324fbe27


 
  I love this valve, but I don't like to looks of these.
   
  It appears that the getter is tilted down 45 degrees matching the angle of the flash "mask".
  The photo is marginal but I detect the edge of the getter along the edge of the mask.
  If so does it impact the sound?  Don't know.
   
  They look like dimple getters, moving them to 70's production.
   
  Although they only have a 97.5% rating I have purchased from them and it worked out.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> If they turn out to be not to your taste, i will buy them off you for what you paid
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Give 'em 40-50 hours, the SELs take a bit longer to open up.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Hi guys, please excuse what may be either an ignorant or stupid question, but as a new owner of a Schiit LYR, I was wondering if there were any particular tubes considered to sound fantastic with my HD 650s. I have purchased my LYR from another Head-Fi user and it is coming with JJ E88CC tubes  which I gather are rather on the warm side and not necesarily ideal for use with the 650s.


 
   
   
  I ordered my Lyr with the JJ's and I would not say they are on the warm side at all but rather flat and modern sounding with excellent detail. They rank in my top 5 fave sets for use in the Lyr. I find a lot of modern tubes have this sort of sound.
   
  I would love to know specifically what Schiit is shipping for their GE NOS and what dates they are. My fave tubes at the moment are some 1965 GE 6BZ7.


----------



## john57

I have the codes of 83-52 and 33173 on my GE 6BZ7


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> [size=10pt]Tubes from the Heerlen plant were sold with a bunch of different labels, like Amperex, Miniwatt, Philips, Bugle Boy, and also relabeled by various Philips associates or companies owned by Philips like Balvo, Mullard, La Radiotechnique RTC, Siemens, and Adzam.  The Valvo's with red labels were for industrial use and went throuhgh additional testing.  I'd keep an eye out for the late 60's to early 70's models with gold pins and the large "halo" or "O" getter.  I'm not sure about the history behind the boxes, but both seem to be authentic.  If you want to make sure you get a quality E88CC, I would stick to a trusted dealer like Brent Jesse or TubeMonger.  I've had great experiences with both.[/size]


 

 Thanks - that's very useful to know. Sounds like the guys at the Heerlen plant were busy beavers!!
   
   
  ------
   
  Sanlitun - codes on my GE 6BZ7s are 83-48 and 33173.


----------



## Fearless1

+

   
                                                                                                     =


----------



## OldSkool

Thanks for the excellent review, Thaddy!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As far as the RTC's go, here's a copy and paste of my "mini review", from an e-mail I sent to Sceleratus last Saturday afternoon:
   
   
   
  "Ok, this morning the slumber party finally moved to the trampoline in the backyard, giving me 2 wonderful hours of quiet time.

 I warmed up these bad boys and I'm here to tell you, these RTC's kick ass with the right cans!

 Great detail and air, almost 3D! Loads of smooth upper-mid and treble energy. Unfortunately, they sounded just a bit too warm with the HE-500 in my system.

 This tube needs a darker can like a LCD-2...or...a Senn HD-650.

 I grabbed my 650's and plugged in. Holy Jeebus!!! The 650's have NEVER NEVER NEVER sounded better!

 I can now see why you feel that you found an endgame tube! Truly outstanding glass!

 Wow, indeed."
   
   
  So, yeah. I guess I liked them ok...


----------



## mhamel

I've got two matched pairs of the Mullard/RTC E188CC dimpled disc getters that I picked up from eBay a few weeks back.  
   
  These:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-RTC-Mullard-E188CC-7303-6922WA-Gold-Pins-ECC88-NOS-Matched-tubes-/390583755729?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5af09b23d1
   
  I'm not a big fan of them with my LCD-2s or my powered speakers, but it seems like they do much better with 650s.    They're available for sale if anyone is interested.
   
     -Mike


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Thanks for the excellent review, Thaddy!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  And thanks for getting them to me safe and sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Glad to hear our impressions are similar.  I see we're also using the exact same source as well!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> I've got two matched pairs of the Mullard/RTC E188CC dimpled disc getters that I picked up from eBay a few weeks back.
> 
> These:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-RTC-Mullard-E188CC-7303-6922WA-Gold-Pins-ECC88-NOS-Matched-tubes-/390583755729?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5af09b23d1
> 
> ...


 
  I had the same experience..... RTC/Mullard..... LCD2's...... underwhelmed
   
  Don't fret.  I sold mine to a Sennheiser aficionado, and he loves them.  Purchased mine as a second set.
  They are very well built.  10,000 hour rating, tight specs, gold pin.
  A very good match with HD-650's


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> And thanks for getting them to me safe and sound
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Great minds... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I will keep in touch as the Woo WA2 is next on my list and I can use some guidance. I plan to pair it permanently with my HD650's and it's nice to know that I can still use my stash of E88CC/6922's


----------



## mhamel

They're great tubes, built like tanks, just don't work well in my particular system... no point in having them sit unused in my stash when someone can be enjoying them.  
   
  My new tester should be here Monday, I need to start selling some of the big stash of various other stuff I picked up.   Initial listening tests on some of them have had some pretty good results.   Mostly alternate stuff that might be anyone's first choice, but there are definitely some sleepers in the bunch.   I've also got some nice 1958 RCA 6BZ7s that I'll be matching up and selling.   As with many of that series, they can be microphonic but I've found that dampers tame them very well.
   
  Currently listening to a pair of Siemens ECC189s that have no right to sound as good as they do... they started off great and just keep getting better even with only around 6 hours of them.
   
     -Mike
   
   
  Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I had the same experience..... RTC/Mullard..... LCD2's...... underwhelmed
> 
> Don't fret.  I sold mine to a Sennheiser aficionado, and he loves them.  Purchased mine as a second set.
> They are very well built.  10,000 hour rating, tight specs, gold pin.
> A very good match with HD-650's


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Great minds...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Feel free to PM me if you ever come close to pulling the trigger.  With a neutral source like the Digital Link III, it's an incredibly good amp that pairs so well with HD600's and HD650's.


----------



## HK_sends

Got my Bifrost back...  Here's an impression of the uber board and Lyr with the Mullard CV4109s (although I don't really focus on the tubes):
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/180#post_9445848
   
  Post #192
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## john57

Just received my Lyr and started tube rolling. This would be my fourth hybrid tube amp I have tried over the years in addition to my all tube amps. I find that the Lyr responded quite readily to tube rolling and easy to tell differences in tubes. I did find that the 6H23 / 6922 Type 3 tube is far from ideal for the Lyr. That tube is thin and very harsh sounding almost gritty in character. The stock GE 6BZ7 is much softer and slightly mellower and seems to compress the dynamic range of some of the music that I listen to. It is an easy listening tube.  The 6BZ7 is a bit too soft and does not have quite the dynamic range to cover with the classical music that I listen to.  I am trying some tubes from my Counterpoint days and getting far better results with the tubes that have not seen the light in quite some time.


----------



## Mando323

Recommended tubes for around 50ish bucks? I just ordered a Modi, too.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mando323 said:


> Recommended tubes for around 50ish bucks? I just ordered a Modi, too.


 
  You might consider these: http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=756
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jellofund

How big a deal is the 7v heater in the PCC88s? Does using them 'out of spec' in the Lyr have any impact on lifespan or generate extra heat?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> How big a deal is the 7v heater in the PCC88s? Does using them 'out of spec' in the Lyr have any impact on lifespan or generate extra heat?


 
   
  Think of it as running a lightbulb at lower voltage, less heat and longer life, but won't burn as bright.
   
  So "not burning as brightly" will mean they are not running optimally, but many people love the sound of the PCC88's running in Lyr, i believe many would claim the Stuttgart Lorenz PCC88's are the very best tube they've ever heard in Lyr.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

ilikepooters said:


> Think of it as running a lightbulb at lower voltage, less heat and longer life, but won't burn as bright.
> 
> So "not burning as brightly" will mean they are not running optimally, but many people love the sound of the PCC88's running in Lyr, i believe many would claim the Stuttgart Lorenz PCC88's are the very best tube they've ever heard in Lyr.




+1 The Lorenz Stuttgart's sound fantastic in the Lyr. Not so with all amps however. The higher heater voltage does not work well with my Liquid Glass.


----------



## bahorn

For those of you using the Tubemongers socket savers in the Lyr, I'm hearing a faint clicking in one channel (left channel only) when no music is playing or between songs.  I've tried pushing down on the left socket saver to make sure it is seated and switching to a different set of tubes, but no change.
   
  Anyone have any suggestions?  What's the best way to remove the socket savers?  Do I have to open up the Lyr?  Thanks.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

r scott ireland said:


> +1 The Lorenz Stuttgart's sound fantastic in the Lyr. Not so with all amps however. The higher heater voltage does not work well with my Liquid Glass.




The reverse seems to be the case with Lorenz Stuttgart ECC85's. I am listening to them now with the Liquid Glass and LCD-3's. Wow! Amazing detail, soundstage, etc. Among the best I've heard so far with the LG. But, I understand from ilikepooters' posts that they were good with the Lyr (I haven't rolled them into the Lyr yet), but not great, since they have a 250V anode voltage spec. With the LG I can switch from 200V up to 300V anode voltage (150V to each tube), which probably helps quite a bit. They sound a lot like the PCC88 Stuttgarts sound in the Lyr.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

bahorn said:


> For those of you using the Tubemongers socket savers in the Lyr, I'm hearing a faint clicking in one channel (left channel only) when no music is playing or between songs.  I've tried pushing down on the left socket saver to make sure it is seated and switching to a different set of tubes, but no change.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions?  What's the best way to remove the socket savers?  Do I have to open up the Lyr?  Thanks.




I use an inserted tube to remove them. If you rock the tube back and forth a certain way (can't really explain this - mostly by feel) the tube+socket saver will both loosen and the socket saver can then be removed more easily.


----------



## VolkswagenFox

I ordered a set of socket savers as well as a matched set of Gold Lions. The Lyr is my first tube amp, so I'm pretty excited about trying out different tubes and seeing how the sound will change.


----------



## bahorn

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> I use an inserted tube to remove them. If you rock the tube back and forth a certain way (can't really explain this - mostly by feel) the tube+socket saver will both loosen and the socket saver can then be removed more easily.


 
  Thanks!  That worked.  It took a while with the left socket saver because that is the stickier socket.  I put the tubes back in without the socket savers.  And all is quiet again.  So it does appear that the socket saver I used in the left channel was noisy.  I'll check into an exchange with Tubemonger.  Now back to enjoying my Lyr.


----------



## Mando323

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> You might consider these: http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=756
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Anyone else like this pick? Very close to pulling the trigger, and I just want a little nudge.


----------



## billerb1

I hear from a very reliable source they are all the detail and presence of the Lorenz SEL PCC88's...and then some.
  Is that nudge enough?


----------



## Mando323

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> I hear from a very reliable source they are all the detail and presence of the Lorenz SEL PCC88's...and then some.
> Is that nudge enough?


 
  Ordering after I type this


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Think of it as running a lightbulb at lower voltage, less heat and longer life, but won't burn as bright.
> 
> So "not burning as brightly" will mean they are not running optimally, but many people love the sound of the PCC88's running in Lyr, i believe many would claim the Stuttgart Lorenz PCC88's are the very best tube they've ever heard in Lyr.


 
   
  Thanks for the very clear example. Makes good sense and longer life and less heat can only be a good thing.
   
  I received a pair of Lorenz PCC88's (Czech rather than Stuttgart's) from the lovely Mr. sceleratus today and have to say they sound great despite running 'sub-optimally' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> +1 The Lorenz Stuttgart's sound fantastic in the Lyr. Not so with all amps however. The higher heater voltage does not work well with my Liquid Glass.


 
   
  The Lyr does seem to be very forgiving from that point of view.
   
  I'm going to forget you guys mentioning the Stuttgart's....at least for a while. I really need to spend more time enjoying the tubes I already have (4 pairs in a month of Lyr ownership) rather than adding any more to the 'must try' list


----------



## sceleratus

I've used Tubemonger Socket Savers (Valve Savers) for quite some time and I love the product.
   
  I thought I'd post a couple photos of them from a different perspective.  Notice how "beefy" the housing is compared to the noval socket.  There is plenty of room inside for shielding/isolation.


----------



## PinkLed

Fellow Lyrphiles 
   
  Recently purchased a pair of Amperex 6922 PQ Whites [size=small]7L9 *6E USA[/size]. [size=small]Test Result(s): [/size]*[size=small]Tube 1 = 73/78, Tube 2 = 78/76. [/size]*[size=small]Date Code(s): 66-37. Cost was 70$ for the pair. Was it a waste? Im seeing the popular models are the 1965s on the forums. [/size]
   
  [size=small]Will the Uber upgrade on my Bifrost that is combo with Lyr compliment the white PQ tubes well? Or should i drop another bill and try to get some oranges made in 69?[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]I was just glad to get rid of the feedback when touching my volume knob that the stock GE tubes gave off. [/size]
   
  [size=small]Thanks in advance for any advice guys. This is my first post so go easy on me.[/size]


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Recently purchased a pair of Amperex 6922 PQ Whites [size=small]7L9 *6E USA[/size]. [size=small]Test Result(s): [/size]*[size=small]Tube 1 = 73/78, Tube 2 = 78/76. [/size]*[size=small]Date Code(s): 66-37. Cost was 70$ for the pair. Was it a waste? Im seeing the popular models are 65' on the forums. [/size]
> 
> [size=small]Is the Uber upgrade necessary with the white PQ tubes? Or should i drop another bill and try to get some oranges made in 69?[/size]
> 
> ...


 
  You want the Bifrost Uber.  No doubt.
  I think those 6922's were a good value.  Not a waste at all.  They should sound great.
  SQ's, spec-wise, are better than ECC88 "OG"'s 
   
  I put a link to Philips Valve codes a page or two back.  It will help with decoding the etchings.
  Perhaps you already have it because what you wrote looks correct.
   
   
  EDIT:  To me the 6922 SQ and an OG have a different sound. One isn't necessarily better than the other.  I find more detail and a larger soundstage with the 6922.  A lot depends on the can's you are pairing them with.  I have a personal bias to 1960's valves.  "O" getters.
  You should be in good shape.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> You want the Bifrost Uber.  No doubt.
> I think those 6922's were a good value.  Not a waste at all.  They should sound great.
> SQ's, spec-wise, are better than ECC88 "OG"'s
> 
> ...


 
  I concur, that's a pretty good price for those 6922s.  How do they sound to you?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Recently purchased a pair of Amperex 6922 PQ Whites [size=small]7L9 *6E USA[/size]. [size=small]Test Result(s): [/size]*[size=small]Tube 1 = 73/78, Tube 2 = 78/76. [/size]*[size=small]Date Code(s): 66-37. Cost was 70$ for the pair. Was it a waste? Im seeing the popular models are 65' on the forums. [/size]
> 
> [size=small]Is the Uber upgrade necessary with the white PQ tubes? Or should i drop another bill and try to get some oranges made in 69?[/size]
> 
> ...


 
  Welcome to Head-Fi!  Sorry about your wallet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## PinkLed

> sceleratus said:
> 
> 
> > You want the Bifrost Uber.  No doubt.
> ...


 
   
   


> Welcome to Head-Fi!  Sorry about your wallet!


 
   
  Thanks fellas. The only other vintage tubes I've used in my Lyr are a non matching pair of amperex orange globes from holland (dates: 70' 73'). With the 66" PQ o-getters the low end seems much more controlled which is a nice match with the LCD2s. I felt like with the orange globes the bass was very overwhelming at times depending on the type song. (could this be due to the non-matching dates as well?) Lows with 66" o-getters are tighter and sound more natural. Now all I have to do is suck it up and send my Bifrost in for the Uber upgrade. Its going to be missed greatly while its gone.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Thanks fellas. The only other vintage tubes I've used in my Lyr are a non matching pair of amperex orange globes from holland (dates: 70' 73'). With the 66" PQ o-getters the low end seems much more controlled which is a nice match with the LCD2s. I felt like with the orange globes the bass was very overwhelming at times depending on the type song. (could this be due to the non-matching dates as well?) Lows with 66" o-getters are tighter and sound more natural.


 
  Cool


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Any Valhalla owners heres? Seems to be a lack of you guys.


----------



## sceleratus

TQuote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Any Valhalla owners heres? Seems to be a lack of you guys.


 
  wrong thread for that.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> wrong thread for that.


 
  Now that they can roll 6922 family tubes into the Valhalla, I think the owners need to start a tube rolling thread.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Now that you can roll 6922 family tubes into the Valhalla, I think the owners need to start a tube rolling thread.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Yup.
   
  I'm a stuck up, crotchety, old, Lyr guy.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Yup.
> 
> I'm a stuck up, crotchety, old, Lyr guy.


 
  Oh, me too.  As soon as Jason said the Valhalla doesn't pair well with orthos, I had to give it a pass.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

I tried the Holland-made RTC E188CC tubes (green label, O-getter) with the uber Bifrost upgrade.  I honestly expected it to be too bright sounding for my tastes but ended up being wowed by how good these tubes sound with the uber DAC.  The treble was not overwhelming by any stretch...it was smooth and didn't make me wince at all.  I think it's due to the tubes finally settling in and maybe the uber-analog board settling down as well.  Right now, I would rank the RTCs right up there with the Mullard CV4109s as being my favorite tubes.  I am still planning to do an A/B comparison because I have rolled several different sets of tubes of late and can't make a direct comparison.
   
  Until later...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## billerb1

Right up there with the CV4109's ???  Can't wait for the in-depth A/B.  Are the RTC's Mullards, Phil ?


----------



## rb2013

Looking to pickup a Lyr - anyone know which fuse it uses?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> Right up there with the CV4109's ???  Can't wait for the in-depth A/B.  Are the RTC's Mullards, Phil ?


 
  Completely different.
  1967 Heerlen


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Looking to pickup a Lyr - anyone know which fuse it uses?


 
  There are two buried behind 20 screws and a label that says "No user serviceable parts inside"
   
  Sorry I didn't photograph it when the patient was opened up to see how to convert to 230V.
  They are behind the trannies.


----------



## billerb1

How would you contrast the RTC's and the Mullard CV 4109's scelatarus? Would love to hear your take.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Completely different.
> 1967 Heerlen


 
  Beautiful.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> How would you contrast the RTC's and the Mullard CV 4109's scelatarus? Would love to hear your take.


 
  I don't own the CV4109's but as you read HK is very impressed with his two sets RTC's.  Several others snatched a couple sets.  R_Scott_Ireland posted a glowing review with LCD3's. Old_Skool thought they were amazing with HD-650's, same for Thaddy.  Eddiek997 loves them, nelamvr6 is waiting for his.....It all started with Fearless1.  He got me hooked on them a couple months ago.   I have LCD2's.
   
  I've had a fair amount of glass USN-CEP 6922's OG's, 1960 USN 6922 "D" getters, Bugle Boys, PCC88 SEL's, Mullard RTC's, 65 Valvo's E88CC's.  It's all gone.    I listened to the Lorenz Stuttgart's for a weekend...  I have not listened to Cca's, Siemens & Haske, pinched waist and other exotics.
   
  I find these RTC's better than anything I've listened to in every category they continue to produce jaw dropping, Wow moments.  A set of 1959 Valvo Hamburg E88CC D getters dropped in out of the blue.  They may be a tad better to my ears.
   
  So I am down to 3 sets total.  Two RTC's, and the 59 Valvo's.  Since HK said they are very close to the CV4109's I will pass on them. Game over.  I am no longer looking.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Beautiful.


 
  Can't thank you enough big guy.
  Captivating.
   
  Now sell me your extra set.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Completely different.
> 1967 Heerlen


 
  What he said! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> What he said!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The sellers that have these and read this are going to be very, very happy.
  I sense the $140 days are gone.


----------



## HK_sends

Last night, someone from France was selling four of the "NOS" Harleen-made RTC tubes as individuals for $79 a piece.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Last night, someone from France was selling four of the "NOS" Harleen-made RTC tubes as individuals for $79 a piece.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Those all look to be dimple getters.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Those all look to be dimple getters.


 
  Ah...ok...nevermind...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## billerb1

Great run-downs.  Thanks gentlemen !!!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> There are two buried behind 20 screws and a label that says "No user serviceable parts inside"
> 
> Sorry I didn't photograph it when the patient was opened up to see how to convert to 230V.
> They are behind the trannies.


 
   
  Thanks!

 Do you remember if they are in sockets or are they hard wired?  No external 250V fuse box?  I have had great success with replacing the cheap stock fuses with  Synergistic Research SR20 Quantum Fuses on my Woo WA6-SE.  Was going to do the same with the Lyr.


----------



## rb2013

I am ordering a Lyr - I have been a 20 year audio "nut".  The last 10 mostly tubes - but I like the MOSFET/Tube combination alot - hence giving the Lyr a shot!  Best of both worlds.
   
  In my long experience with much audio gear the BEST 6922, and I mean bettered the gray plate 1960's Siemens CCAs and Amprex pinch waists 6dj8 are the cheap (relatively) NOS 1970 Voskhod 6n23p rockets with the flying saucer getters!   These are incredible.  I use them in my Bada Purer 3.3SE amps and Xindak Dac-5!  Wonderfully detailed and musical, huge sound stage, almost no micro-phonics (not like those Amperexs) or noise.  The seem to last forever!
   
  I tried every other Russian and Chinese tube (including the JJs) and they pretty much all suck.  If you insist on the JJs try the Cryod's ones from www.Cryoset.com
   
  My rockets, which I bought some time ago (3-4 yrs) do not have the CCCP star on them like the ones on E-Bay, just a faint rocket emblem.  I will have to order some of the E-bay ones to see if they sound the same or better.
   
  The Russian 6n23p is a direct replacement for the 6922.
   
  Can't wait to get the Lyr to hear it with them.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Do you remember if they are in sockets or are they hard wired?  No external 250V fuse box?  I have had great success with replacing the cheap stock fuses with  Synergistic Research SR20 Quantum Fuses on my Woo WA6-SE.  Was going to do the same with the Lyr.


 
  Snap in sockets on the PCB board.  Didn't see an external fuse box.


----------



## solserenade

> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > I have had great success with replacing the cheap stock fuses with  Synergistic Research SR20 Quantum Fuses on my Woo WA6-SE.  Was going to do the same with the Lyr.
> ...


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Snap in sockets on the PCB board.  Didn't see an external fuse box.


 

 I went back to Schiit website - you are right no AC fuse holder on the outside.  I did see the fuse next to the tranny on the board - oh what a tight sqeeze!  That'll take a little patience to get out.  Any idea on the fuse rating - probably in the manual.  Too bad that's not viewable on the website like Woo!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Hi,
> I'm curious, how would you describe the improvement with the fuse upgrade on your Woo amp. Thanks!


 
  I do this as a matter of course in all my audio gear - a easy, cheap upgrade.  The Woo was a bit more dynamic, a tad more energy, and tighter in the bass.  The Hi-Fi tuning fuses are really good as well.  Also recommended - get some ProGold - just a little swipe with a cotton swab on each end of the fuse and the tube pins.  This is a safe procedure.  If you really want to hear a change - Xtreme AV Quicksilver contact enhancer - but you have to be very careful with this stuff - it can create a short if not applied correctly.  The jump in dynamics is amazing  - but does fade over time - likely the Lyr is dynamic enough with the right tubes and power cord.


----------



## john57

When I first received my Lyr I thought that the amp was not dynamic enough with the stock GE tubes. Since then I found tubes that made quite a bit difference and my Lyr is nuch more like a dynamic powerhouse.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





john57 said:


> When I first received my Lyr I thought that the amp was not dynamic enough with the stock GE tubes. Since then I found tubes that made quite a bit difference and my Lyr is nuch more like a dynamic powerhouse.


 
  what tubes?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> I went back to Schiit website - you are right no AC fuse holder on the outside.  I did see the fuse next to the tranny on the board - oh what a tight sqeeze!  That'll take a little patience to get out.  Any idea on the fuse rating - probably in the manual.  Too bad that's not viewable on the website like Woo!


 
  The Schiit web site says the Lyr consumes 30W
   
  P=IV   (Watt = Amp x Voltage)
  I = 30W / 120 V
  I = 250 mA  or 1/4 Amp.
   
  There are 2 transformers in the Lyr.  One for the filament one for the anode.
  Thus 2 primaries and 2 fuses.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> The Schiit web site says the Lyr consumes 30W
> 
> P=IV   (Watt = Amp x Voltage)
> I = 30W / 120 V
> ...


 

 I just need the value on the fuse and whether it's slow or fast blow.  When I get it I'll check the manual and pop the original fuses out to read the values.  The Woo takes a 3.1 amp Slow on the AC, the Lyr should take something similar.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> The Schiit web site says the Lyr consumes 30W
> 
> P=IV   (Watt = Amp x Voltage)
> I = 30W / 120 V
> ...


 

 Also they are almost always 250V.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> I just need the value on the fuse and whether it's slow or fast blow.  When I get it I'll check the manual and pop the original fuses out to read the values.  The Woo takes a 3.1 amp Slow on the AC, the Lyr should take something similar.


 
  If you can find the manual.
   
  It's 4" x 6"   8 pages including covers.
  I tossed my Lyr booket' but kept the Bifrost one.
  No fuse information.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Also they are almost always 250V.


 
  Should you decide to open the Lyr up do the following:
  1) Remove all the Top fasteners.
  2)  Remove only the bottom "Perimeter" fasteners with the exception of the four heat sink fasteners.  See Photo.
  3) Do not remove the bottom, center fasteners.  They hold the board to the case.  See Photo
  4) Remove the black fasteners in the rear.  The clam shells will slide apart.
  5) Use the largest philips screwdriver that will fit.  The fasteners are tight.
  6) Put all the fasteners in part way on a given side (so they align first) before tightening completely one by one.
   
  I suspect you knew 5 &6 but I played it safe.


----------



## john57

I wanted to restate that you should never mess with the four heat sink fasteners since they have isolating washers on them for the top and bottom. It would be easy to short out the output devices to the case if the fasteners are not put together correctly. I have not opened my Lyr but have worked on similar devices that uses a thin isolating sheet under the output transistor that can easily get torn or punched thru by dirt. I usually use the meter to check for shorts on the output transistors on my power amps whenever I replace the output devices.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I wanted to restate that you should never mess with the four heat sink fasteners since they have isolating washers on them for the top and bottom. It would be easy to short out the output devices to the case if the fasteners are not put together correctly. I have not opened my Lyr but have worked on similar devices that uses a thin isolating sheet under the output transistor that can easily get torn or punched thru by dirt. I usually the meter to check for shorts on the output transistors on my power amps when every I replace the output devices.


 
  egggggggzackly !
   
  EDIT
   
  Probably best not to mung with anything under the Lyr covers.


----------



## solserenade

rb2013 said:


> I do this as a matter of course in all my audio gear - a easy, cheap upgrade.  The Woo was a bit more dynamic, a tad more energy, and tighter in the bass.  The Hi-Fi tuning fuses are really good as well.  Also recommended - get some ProGold - just a little swipe with a cotton swab on each end of the fuse and the tube pins.  This is a safe procedure.  If you really want to hear a change - Xtreme AV Quicksilver contact enhancer - but you have to be very careful with this stuff - it can create a short if not applied correctly.  The jump in dynamics is amazing  - but does fade over time - likely the Lyr is dynamic enough with the right tubes and power cord.





Thank you for the fuse details, and the tips regarding the Pro-Gold. Cheers.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> what tubes?


 
   [size=11pt]The tube that works well with the Lyr is the GE 6DJ8 smoked glass. The darker the better especially the getter. These were the tubes during my Counterpoint days and have not been used in 20 years. Comparing the 6DJ8 smoke glass tube to the GE 6BZ7 I find that the 6BZ7 sounds very much like Dolby compression set for Quiet environment on my theater setup. The GE 6DJ8 smoked glass is much more dynamic for the music that I listen to which has a very wide dynamic range to begin with. The 6DJ8 has a bit more brilliance and great front to back sound-stage. No question that the GE 6Dj8 is going to be one of my favorite tubes to use in the Lyr and originally those tubes were the backups for my Melos gold pre-amp. The good news is that EBay has plenty of these tubes available and not terribly expensive either. The smoked glass acts like a light RF shield and prevents some stray electrons from bouncing off the inside glass of the tube. I do not call the GE smoked glass grey glass because grey glass tubes like some of my 6SN7 types are not transparent like the GE and I have other tubes that have black glass with no light seen except for the very top of the tube.  I do find that the Lyr has good sensitivity to the various qualities of different tubes. [/size]


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=11pt]The tube that works well with the Lyr is the GE 6DJ8 smoked glass. The darker the better especially the getter. These were the tubes during my Counterpoint days and have not been used in 20 years. Comparing the 6DJ8 smoke glass tube to the GE 6BZ7 I find that the 6BZ7 sounds very much like Dolby compression set for Quiet environment on my theater setup. The GE 6DJ8 smoked glass is much more dynamic for the music that I listen to which has a very wide dynamic range to begin with. The 6DJ8 has a bit more brilliance and great front to back sound-stage. No question that the GE 6Dj8 is going to be one of my favorite tubes to use in the Lyr and originally those tubes were the backups for my Melos gold pre-amp. The good news is that EBay has plenty of these tubes available and not terribly expensive either. The smoked glass acts like a light RF shield and prevents some stray electrons from bouncing off the inside glass of the tube. I do not call the GE smoked glass grey glass because grey glass tubes like some of my 6SN7 types are not transparent like the GE and I have other tubes that have black glass with no light seen except for the very top of the tube.  I do find that the Lyr has good sensitivity to the various qualities of different tubes. [/size]


 
  Thanks for the info. You mention that it sounds a bit brilliant, how is bass on the GE 6DJ8? I tend to prefer a more mellow sound than a bright one.


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]The bass on the GE 6DJ8 is also a bit more extended and punchier. I prefer my music to sound like what I would hear at a concert.  Most of the concerts I go to are unamplified and they have a bit different frequency response from an amplified concert.  I know many people like tubes to be mellow but I wanted the treble to be realistic as possible as I would hear from a concert. On the other hand the 6H23 / 6922 Type 3 tube is way too bright and very harsh to my ears and would never work in my Lyr. I still have some very nice Ram tubes to try but the GE will work just fine. [/size]


----------



## PinkLed

For some reason the stock GE tubes make this awful noise when touching the volume knob. Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> For some reason the stock GE tubes make this awful noise when touching the volume knob. Has anyone else experienced this?


 
  Try pulling and re-seating the tubes (_with the power off_)...that sometimes helps.  There might be some corrosion on a pin.  Have you tried rolling in a different set of tubes?  Do they do the same thing?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends
   
  PS - Does the noise occur in both channels, or one side only?  If only on one side, swap the tubes around and see if the noise changes sides.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> For some reason the stock GE tubes make this awful noise when touching the volume knob. Has anyone else experienced this?


 
   
  Microphonics.
   
  Sometimes tapping the tubes a few times can clear up the horrbile ringing sound, the GE tubes are cheap enough to replace though so no big deal if you can't cure it.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Microphonics.
> 
> Sometimes tapping the tubes a few times can clear up the horrbile ringing sound, the GE tubes are cheap enough to replace though so no big deal if you can't cure it.


 
  If you don't have another set to try, PM me.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=11pt]The bass on the GE 6DJ8 is also a bit more extended and punchier. I prefer my music to sound like what I would hear at a concert.  Most of the concerts I go to are unamplified and they have a bit different frequency response from an amplified concert.  I know many people like tubes to be mellow but I wanted the treble to be realistic as possible as I would hear from a concert. On the other hand the 6H23 / 6922 Type 3 tube is way too bright and very harsh to my ears and would never work in my Lyr. I still have some very nice Ram tubes to try but the GE will work just fine. [/size]


 
   
  With my Senns in the Bifrost pre-uber era I was leaning back to Mullards, but I found the 6dj8's warm and muddy. So I began to hunt 60's era CV2942s.  Post uber I'm back to the Siemens & Halske E88CCs which can rip your head off with harshly recorded rock. However, the S&H's have everything you could want.  With the improved anlog section, you get the weight back in the bass which was missing with them. So their superbly balanced with my current setup, IMHO.


----------



## PinkLed

> ilikepooters said:
> 
> 
> > Microphonics.
> ...


 
  I was able to get rid of the stock GE's and replaced them with these. 66' - o getters I mentioned a few days ago. Below is a picture of them. 
   
  The microphonics have seemed to vanish. Could the GE stock tubes from Schiit have been just a bad batch? Or is this one of the main reasons people go for the vintage tubes, higher quality back then?
   
   
   


> I tried the Holland-made RTC E188CC tubes (green label, O-getter) with the uber Bifrost upgrade.  I honestly expected it to be too bright sounding for my tastes but ended up being wowed by how good these tubes sound with the uber DAC.  The treble was not overwhelming by any stretch...it was smooth and didn't make me wince at all.  I think it's due to the tubes finally settling in and maybe the uber-analog board settling down as well.  Right now, I would rank the RTCs right up there with the Mullard CV4109s as being my favorite tubes.  I am still planning to do an A/B comparison because I have rolled several different sets of tubes of late and can't make a direct comparison.
> 
> Until later...
> 
> ...


 
  Are these the RTC you are mentioning? http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7441-RTC-MORE-AVAILABLE-/121103171111?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c324fbe27


----------



## NightFlight

Hey all, I have available for sale a mint pair of HD800's. They have been burned in for 40 hours while ignored under a blanket and listened to for no more than 2hrs. They are for all intent and purpose - *new*.  Includes original box and paperwork, etc.  They are not registered with Sennheiser. Asking $1200 firm. Preference for Canadian buyer for purposes of avoiding customs/duty, etc.  Seller is a family member of mine.
   
  Just throwing it in here first, since this is where I frequent the most.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Hey all, I have available for sale a mint pair of HD800's. They have been burned in for 40 hours while ignored under a blanket and listened to for no more than 2hrs. They are for all intent and purpose - *new*.  Includes original box and paperwork, etc.  They are not registered with Sennheiser. Asking $1200 firm. Preference for Canadian buyer for purposes of avoiding customs/duty, etc.  Seller is a family member of mine.
> 
> Just throwing it in here first, since this is where I frequent the most.


 
   
  P.S. Looking for someone who is serious about the purchase, today or tomorrow.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> P.S. Looking for someone who is serious about the purchase, today or tomorrow.


 
   
  HD800's are a bit beyond me currently, be next year some time before i have the moolah together to afford a pair, they are next on my shopping list though!
   
  Then again, if i save up that much money i might think "hey wait a minute, save some more and i can have Stax 007's"
   
  Hope they find a good home


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Should you decide to open the Lyr up do the following:
> 1) Remove all the Top fasteners.
> 2)  Remove only the bottom "Perimeter" fasteners with the exception of the four heat sink fasteners.  See Photo.
> 3) Do not remove the bottom, center fasteners.  They hold the board to the case.  See Photo
> ...


 

 Thanks for the info - that'll come in handy.  I'll be looking to upgrade the caps in time - to bad I missed the Empirical Audio Lyr that sold a few months ago - nice upgrades across the board!  Saved the list of upgrades - I'll at least swap out the Wimas for some V-Caps or some AuraTeflons.  The Ad on these forums didn't state which they used - anyone have an idea?  They did state they added a high-voltage Black-Gate 'lytic' for plate voltage - 22uFd, 350VDC  and 4 Panasonic low-ESR 'lytics' to replce the inexpensive low voltage decoupling caps.
   
  Someone got a real bargain - the hot roddiest Lyr out there I'm sure!!!


----------



## PinkLed

> HD800's are a bit beyond me currently, be next year some time before i have the moolah together to afford a pair, they are next on my shopping list though!
> 
> Then again, if i save up that much money i might think "hey wait a minute, save some more and i can have Stax 007's"
> 
> Hope they find a good home


 
  The only thing that kept me from going for SR007 was the price of electrostatic amps.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Try pulling and re-seating the tubes (_with the power off_)...that sometimes helps.  There might be some corrosion on a pin.  Have you tried rolling in a different set of tubes?  Do they do the same thing?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Try Detox on the pins to remove any corrosion then a little ProGold contact cleaner - the tube pins will slide in and out more easily as well.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> With my Senns in the Bifrost pre-uber era I was leaning back to Mullards, but I found the 6dj8's warm and muddy. So I began to hunt 60's era CV2942s.  Post uber I'm back to the Siemens & Halske E88CCs which can rip your head off with harshly recorded rock. However, the S&H's have everything you could want.  With the improved anlog section, you get the weight back in the bass which was missing with them. So their superbly balanced with my current setup, IMHO.


 

 Take my 20 years of experience with the 6922 tube across all kind of equipment - there is no sound associated with a 6dj8 versus a 6922 versus a CCa.  It all depends on the tube - the real difference is the expected life with the 6dj8 being the shortest and the CCa the longest.  A 6dj8 Siemens West Germany 1960's can be as detailed and transparent as they come - a Sovtek 6922 as harsh as I've heard.  It all depends on the tube.  a S&H E88CC is very different from a S&H CCa gray shield.         Check out www.tubeworld.com for some great tube porn.


----------



## rb2013

From www.tubeworld.com
   
  FYI
   
 *6DJ8 HISTORY* HISTORY: ------- The 6DJ8 is a frame grid sharp cut-off twin (dual) triode with separate cathodes originally intended for use as a cascode circuits, RF and IF amplifiers, mixer and phase inverter stages.     Originally the 6DJ8 had popular applications in: tuners in television receivers, front ends of VHF radio receivers. One triode acted as the local oscillator and the other as the mixer (frequency changer). Tektronix test equipment. Although not designed for the purpose the ECC88 has found favour with builders of high performance audio equipment. The tube features high transconductance, low plate resistance and low noise properties.     PCC88=7DJ8 can be substituted for the 6DJ8/ECC88 6N23P=Russian made 6DJ8/ECC88 6N1P subs are 6922 and 6DJ8 ELECTRICAL DATA: --------------- MAX RATINGS: ----------- Heater voltage 6.3V Heater current 365mA Max plate voltage (Ia=0) 550V Max operating plate voltage 130V * Max plate dissipation 1.8W Max plate current 25mA Max grid voltage -50V TYPICAL OPERATION: ----------------- Heater = 6.3 Heater Current = 365ma Vplate = 90V Vgrid = -1.2V Iplate = 15ma Rplate = 2650 ohms Gm = 12500 Mu = 33     The Best Sounding 6DJ8=ECC88 ever made are:     6DJ8 Siemens West Germany 1960's (nothing beats this tube; accurate, open, focused, detailed, airy, tight bass)  6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boy Holland "D" getter 1950's (superbly musical 6DJ8, nice articulate bass, 3D sound)  6DJ8 Telefunken West Germany 1960's (a little bass shy, but superbly smooth and listenable long term)  6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boy Holland 1960's  6DJ8 Amperex Holland 1960's and Amperex Holland Globe Logo late 1960's - mid 1970's (some are branded Philips Miniwatt)  CV5358=6DJ8 Mullard 1960's (smooth, good bass, the older versions are the best)  6DJ8 Mullard 1960's (either branded Mullard or Philips or Amperex Great Britain)  6DJ8 Sylvania late 1960's - mid 1970's (excellent sound for the money, best value)  6DJ8 GE USA 1960's - 1970's (good value)


----------



## rb2013

From www.tubeworld.com
   
 FYI  *The Best Sounding 6922=E88CC Gold Pins ever made* (SEE THE 6922 POLL RESULTS FOR CUSTOMER FEEDBACK REGARDING 6922's)      6922 Amperex Holland "Pinched Waist" 1958, many branded Valvo 6922   CCa Siemens Halske 1950's - 1960's (airy highs, great detail, solid bass)   CCa Telefunken 1950's - 1960's 6922   Amperex "PQ" Holland Gold Pins white printing 1960-1966 (older the better) 6922   Amperex Holland branded Amperex or Philips Miniwatt or Mullard Holland or Philips   Holland "SQ" 1960's 6922   Mullard 1960's CV2493=E88CC-01 Mullard late 1960's to mid-1970's   6922 Amperex USA "PQ" white printing 1960's then orange printing 1967-1972 GB-6922   Sylvania GOld Brand Gold Pins 1960's 6922   Sylvania, many are branded RCA 1970's - 1980's   6922 Tesla Gold Pins - older stock (very good value)


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Thanks for the info - that'll come in handy.  I'll looking to upgrade the caps in time - to bad I missed the Empirical Audio Lyr that sold a few months ago - nice upgrades across the board!  Saved the list of upgrades - I'll at least swap out the Wimas for some V-Caps or some AuraTeflons.  The Ad on these forums didn't state which they used - anyone have a idea?  They did state they added a high-voltage Black-Gate 'lytic' for plate voltage - 22uFd, 350VDC  and 4 Panasonic low-ESR 'lytics' to replce the inexpensive low voltage decoupling caps.
> 
> Someone got a real bargain - the hot roddiest Lyr out there I'm sure!!!


 
  Hi,
  Funny you should mention caps.  I was thinking about doing the same but have decided to build a Christensen "Damn Fine" 300B amp.
  I will start a build thread documenting my progress.  Tom Christensen  is a EE specializing in power.  He has been invaluable in my pursuit to build a valve tester.  I built a couple of his power regulators and they are amazing.  His consulting is not free, but anything of an value never is.
   
  Back to "Caps".  I went to Jac Music and found Mundorf hand made caps along with Lundahl transformers. They look great.  I'm in the early stage of selecting component makers.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Hi,
> Funny you should mention caps.  I was thinking about doing the same but have decided to build a Christensen "Damn Good" 300B amp.
> I will start a build thread documenting my progress.  Tom Christensen  is a EE specializing in power.  He has been invaluable in my pursuit to build a valve tester.  I built a couple of his power regulators and they are amazing.  His consulting is not free, but anything of an value never is.
> 
> Back to "Caps".  I went to Jac Music and found Mundorf hand made caps along with Lundahl transformers. They look great.  I'm in the early stage of selecting component makers.


 

 The 300b is the ultimate tube IMHO - hard to design for (Voltage baby!), and expensive in quality (Western Electric), I had one of the most beautiful amps I ever saw, an Airtight 300B Class A SET...very drool worthy...not enough juice for my speakers (Ref 3a Dulcets custom) in my office system.  Then went to the Dared 300Bs Mono blocks (dual 300Bs run in SET mode per block).  Oh the agony of keeping 4 - 300bs running all day (not to mention $1800 of glowing glass)!  But what wonderful, rich tone!  That's why Woo went to the 300B for the WA5. 
  I love the Lundahl transformers - I have a pr in my APL tube DAC as couplers - wonderful!  I would be very selective on the Mundorfs, some have had mixed reviews.  Checkout "The Great Capacitor Shootout" http://www.laventure.net/tourist/caps.htm.
   
  Well good luck in your project!


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> HD800's are a bit beyond me currently, be next year some time before i have the moolah together to afford a pair, they are next on my shopping list though!
> 
> Then again, if i save up that much money i might think "hey wait a minute, save some more and i can have Stax 007's"
> 
> Hope they find a good home


 

 Then you need an amp to power the Stax.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Take my 20 years of experience with the 6922 tube across all kind of equipment - there is no sound associated with a 6dj8 versus a 6922 versus a CCa.
> ...
> a S&H E88CC is very different from a S&H CCa gray shield.         Check out www.tubeworld.com for some great tube porn.


 
   
  I found that out the hard way, yes. The S(-H) E88CC was one of the most grainy, harshest tube IME. Re-sold that pair quick.  The only place I found it to excel was listening to movies. It really seemed to bring a the atmospherics of a well recorded set to life. But I couldn't really see myself plunking in a pair for movies and such.  I mean there's tube rolling, and then just plain madness.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Then you need an amp to power the Stax.


 
   
  I'd probably buy them both together, 007 and SRM-727 MKII, i reckon i should go with the solid state amp over the SRM-007t tube one because i guess solid state should be more neutral[size=x-small]* *also i could use my Lyr as a pre-amp if i wanted to add some tube sound i guess. I know some people will say it's not high-end enough, but by the time i can afford stax i should have learned enough electronics to mod the Schiit out of my Lyr with upgraded caps anyway [/size]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



http://www.highendcable.co.uk/STAX%20SR-007%20Mk2%20systems.htm
   
  £3,195 for both together.
   
  I best get saving


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> *snip*
> 
> Are these the RTC you are mentioning? http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7441-RTC-MORE-AVAILABLE-/121103171111?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c324fbe27


 
Yes, those are the ones...  SORRY, they are not the ones I was talking about.  Thanks to Sceleratus for pointing it out to me (again, because I'm old and forget).
   
*UPDATE: Check post #7350 below for updated info...*
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> I was able to get rid of the stock GE's and replaced them with these. 66' - o getters I mentioned a few days ago. Below is a picture of them.
> 
> The microphonics have seemed to vanish. Could the GE stock tubes from Schiit have been just a bad batch? Or is this one of the main reasons people go for the vintage tubes, higher quality back then?


 
  The tubes could have been bad or just overly sensitive with respect to the Lyr.  With old tubes, you can never tell.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yes, those are the ones...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I think not.
   
  If you enlarge the photo and look very closely at the flash and getter, it looks like a tilted disc to me.
  IMO


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I think not.
> 
> If you enlarge the photo and look very closely at the flash and getter, it looks like a tilted disc to me.
> IMO


 
  Oh Crap!  That's right...you pointed it out to me before.  My Bad!  Those are _*not*_ the ones.  I updated my earlier post.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Oh Crap!  That's right...you pointed it out to me before.  My Bad!  Those are _*not*_ the ones.  I updated my earlier post.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  That was a tricky one.  I was lucky.
   
  It also appears that the getter is bent at an angle.


----------



## sceleratus

Should anyone be interested, here's my 300B Amplifier Build Thread


----------



## HK_sends

Some clarification from our friends at TubeMonger on the tubes we were talking about earlier.  I wasn't aware of this:
   
  "_http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7441-RTC-MORE-AVAILABLE-/121103171111?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c324fbe27

FYI, of the code indeed says VR7 F3K2 - these would be the original La-Radiotechnique, Suresnes Plant, French production tubes. This was another of the Philips associates and a fine maker of tubes. These are 1970s E188CC tubes like all other Revision 7 tubes from Philips Plants.

Tilted getter does not mean anything (sonically, technically or otherwise). Getter is simply used for evacuation process.

Here is some info about evacuation process and getter from the net
http://tubesound.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/flashing.gif_"
   
  And a listing of Philips Tube Codes...
   
   
   
     
   
   
  So, I wasn't aware of these before so I can't say how good they are in comparison to the Holland or British made RTCs.
  Might actually be worth a try...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I found that out the hard way, yes. The S(-H) E88CC was one of the most grainy, harshest tube IME. Re-sold that pair quick.  The only place I found it to excel was listening to movies. It really seemed to bring a the atmospherics of a well recorded set to life. But I couldn't really see myself plunking in a pair for movies and such.  I mean there's tube rolling, and then just plain madness.


 

 Completely agree!  And these can and will fail over time.  I remember when one S&H CCa gray went bad from a perfectly matched pr - I nearly cried! $300 down the drain,  and nearly impossible to find.
  I suggest a decent tube tester is a great investment - I've had Hickoks before and now own a Sencor TC162.  Amazing how many tubes fail by going gassy ( Grid Leakage).  And how many you buy that are not nearly as well match as advertised and are marginal in the grid leakage department - even from reputable sources.  The last pair of 6DR7s I bought from Woo were terrible!  Badly matched and nearly failed the gas test - it wasn't worth the effort to get them replaced -they were like $24.  But you'd expect better from Woo.  But on more expense tubes I wouldn't hesitate to return them.  It's also nice to know if it's your amp/pre/dac that's faulty or just a bad tube.


----------



## john57

I have the Sencore T28 myself and have rebuilt it to factory specs. I had great tubes that unexpectedly failed before its time that are hard to find. I am waiting on delivery of the GE smoked glass backup tubes since I am now planning on to keep the Lyr for the long haul. Prices on NOS tubes are not getting cheaper and the GE happens to be good value for the money.


----------



## HK_sends

Ok, I finally had a chance to compare the Holland-made RTC E188CC tubes against the Mullard CV4109s.  Let's just say that to me, the CV4109s win by a nose (just).  The differences (to my ears at least) are very subtle and have to do mostly about the Mullards having more body to the sound; likely due to a slight emphasis on mids to lower-mids.  I do mean slight but it is there and it does make the music sound more natural than the RTCs.  The RTCs aren't lacking natural sound by any stretch, it's just the Mullards have a little bit more.  To me, the Mullards are the epitome of a warm, lush sounding tube and the RTCs are the epitome of balance.  That's really the best way I can describe it.
   
I would say that the Mullard CV4109s are worth the hefty price (but it would be nice if you can find them at a discount), and the Holland-made RTC E188CCs are quite a bargain at the recent prices.  The differences are so subtle, deciding the best tube is more a matter of sound preference.  I happen choose the Mullards but YMMV (however, I'm keeping the RTCs as well 






).
  
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends
  
 Thanks to the above tubes, I may have some others to get rid of including a few sets of Bugle Boy 1959 D-Getters.  I'll let you guys know if/when...


----------



## PinkLed

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Ok, I finally had a chance to compare the Holland-made RTC E188CC tubes against the Mullard CV4109s.  Let's just say that to me, the CV4109s win by a nose (just).  The differences (to my ears at least) are very subtle and have to do mostly about the Mullards having more body to the sound; likely due to a slight emphasis on mids to lower-mids.  I do mean slight but it is there and it does make the music sound more natural than the RTCs.  The RTCs aren't lacking natural sound by any stretch, it's just the Mullards have a little bit more.  To me, the Mullards are the epitome of a warm, lush sounding tube and the RTCs are the epitome of balance.  That's really the best way I can describe it.
> 
> I would say that the Mullard CV4109s are worth the hefty price (but it would be nice if you can find them at a discount), and the Holland-made RTC E188CCs are quite a bargain at the recent prices.  The differences are so subtle, deciding the best tube is more a matter of sound preference.  I happen choose the Mullards but YMMV.
> 
> ...


 
  You're killing me here man! Im assuming 67's here should be just fine. I think these are them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-CV4109-M-Pairs-NOS-1967-MIL-E188CC-CV4108-7308-/160533000646?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item25608331c6. For 325$ I can almost buy another Lyr. I accept your apology for my wallet.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Some clarification from our friends at TubeMonger on the tubes we were talking about earlier.  I wasn't aware of this:
> 
> "_http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7441-RTC-MORE-AVAILABLE-/121103171111?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c324fbe27
> 
> ...


 
  Very good information to know.
  Thanks
   
  I picked up on made in France..... and was very tempted, has a mystique to it, but I'm delighted with what I have.  All my valve karma will now migrate to the 300B build.
  But I'll be lurking.  I can't help chiming in.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> You're killing me here man! Im assuming 67's here should be just fine. I think these are them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-CV4109-M-Pairs-NOS-1967-MIL-E188CC-CV4108-7308-/160533000646?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item25608331c6. For 325$ I can almost buy another Lyr. I accept your apology for my wallet.


 
  Yeah, that would be them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sorry, your wallet was in danger as soon as you stepped foot into this forum...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> You're killing me here man! Im assuming 67's here should be just fine. I think these are them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-CV4109-M-Pairs-NOS-1967-MIL-E188CC-CV4108-7308-/160533000646?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item25608331c6. For 325$ I can almost buy another Lyr. I accept your apology for my wallet.


 
  That glass is the real deal.  Top Shelf!
  There's a reason they get $325.... because they are worth it.
  Pure made by magic elves.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Very good information to know.
> Thanks
> 
> I picked up on made in France..... and was very tempted, has a mystique to it, but I'm delighted with what I have.  All my valve karma will now migrate to the 300B build.
> But I'll be lurking.  I can't help chiming in.


 
  I am curious about how that will sound.  Do you think you will be able to do a comparison of the 300B against the Lyr (or did I miss it)?
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> That glass is the real deal.  Top Shelf!
> There's a reason they get $325.... because they are worth it.
> *Pure made by magic elves.*


 
  Or Page Three girls with cute accents and huge...skill sets...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

For those who missed the reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_Three
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I am curious about how that will sound.  Do you think you will be able to do a comparison of the 300B against the Lyr (or did I miss it)?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  Once I build it.  Sure.
   
  I ordered the boards, the power transformer, and two output transformers.
  I have 90 other components to go.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Once I build it.  Sure.
> 
> I ordered the boards, the power transformer, and two output transformers.
> I have 90 other components to go.


 
  Maybe you can start a build progress thread so "solder-challenged" folk like me can follow along! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

From our TubeMonger friends:
   
 Attached is the Philips factory code. Most etched in glass Philips codes will follow the following pattern:
 3 digits (first line)
 3-4 digits (second line)
  
 First line - first 2 letters determine the tube type (E88CC/E188CC/ECC83 etc etc). 3rd digit is the Revision.
 Second Line - First letter id's the factory and rest is the date/batch code.
  
 Most Philips associated followed this with few exceptions like BEL and a few other etc.
  
  
 
   




   
  An excellent reference!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Maybe you can start a build progress thread so "solder-challenged" folk like me can follow along!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Kinda like This One?


----------



## PinkLed

> sceleratus said:
> 
> 
> > Once I build it.  Sure.
> ...


 
  I will second this. One time I tried to build a old vintage guitar effects pedal used by Pete Townshend (Univox Superfuzz), that cost just as much as a Lyr but failed miserably. 
  And here it is:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/664903/the-christiansen-dg-300b-amplifier-build-thread#post_9458619


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> I will second this. One time I tried to build a old vintage guitar effects pedal used by Pete Townshend (Univox Superfuzz), that cost just as much as a Lyr but failed miserably.


 
  This is already north of $1K
   
   
  I promise to do a good job documenting the process with lots of pictures.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Kinda like This One?


 
  Yeah...kinda like that one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## R Scott Ireland

hk_sends said:


> Some clarification from our friends at TubeMonger on the tubes we were talking about earlier.  I wasn't aware of this:
> 
> "_http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7441-RTC-MORE-AVAILABLE-/121103171111?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c324fbe27
> 
> ...




Dammit you guys . . . another $180 down the tubes (no pun). And I SWORE an oath "no more 6DJ8 tubes; only Octals from now on". That oath didn't last a day


----------



## R Scott Ireland

r scott ireland said:


> Dammit you guys . . . another $180 down the tubes (no pun). And I SWORE an oath "no more 6DJ8 tubes; only Octals from now on". That oath didn't last a day




PS - I'll let you know how they compare to the Heerlen and Mullard RTC's after they get here and I can compare.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Dammit you guys . . . another $180 down the tubes (no pun). And I SWORE an oath "no more 6DJ8 tubes; only Octals from now on". That oath didn't last a day


 
  Glad we could be of help!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## R Scott Ireland

hk_sends said:


> Glad we could be of help!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes, thanks!!!


----------



## Glam Bash

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=11pt]The tube that works well with the Lyr is the GE 6DJ8 smoked glass. The darker the better especially the getter. These were the tubes during my Counterpoint days and have not been used in 20 years. Comparing the 6DJ8 smoke glass tube to the GE 6BZ7 I find that the 6BZ7 sounds very much like Dolby compression set for Quiet environment on my theater setup. The GE 6DJ8 smoked glass is much more dynamic for the music that I listen to which has a very wide dynamic range to begin with. The 6DJ8 has a bit more brilliance and great front to back sound-stage. No question that the GE 6Dj8 is going to be one of my favorite tubes to use in the Lyr and originally those tubes were the backups for my Melos gold pre-amp. The good news is that EBay has plenty of these tubes available and not terribly expensive either. The smoked glass acts like a light RF shield and prevents some stray electrons from bouncing off the inside glass of the tube. I do not call the GE smoked glass grey glass because grey glass tubes like some of my 6SN7 types are not transparent like the GE and I have other tubes that have black glass with no light seen except for the very top of the tube.  I do find that the Lyr has good sensitivity to the various qualities of different tubes. [/size]


 
  It's about time someone mentioned the Smokies. They are my personal favorite for well recorded vocals with the Lyr(HE-500 phones).


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I have the Sencore T28 myself and have rebuilt it to factory specs. I had great tubes that unexpectedly failed before its time that are hard to find. I am waiting on delivery of the GE smoked glass backup tubes since I am now planning on to keep the Lyr for the long haul. Prices on NOS tubes are not getting cheaper and the GE happens to be good value for the money.


 

 Good call - get'em while you can.  The Sencor, although not a mutual conductance tester, is very good for an emissions tester.  It has served me well for many years.  Those Hancoks are way to expensive for occasional use.  Since almost every piece of audio gear I have has some kind of tube in it, it was well worth the $150 I paid for it.


----------



## john57

I even built the calibration module for my Sencore T28. If money was no object I would get the Sencore MU150 Continental but I would rebuilt it if it has not been done in order to have any accuracy in the meter readings.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I even built the calibration module for my Sencore T28. If money was no object I would get the Sencore MU150 Continental but I would rebuilt it if it has not been done in order to have any accuracy in the meter readings.


 

 Having a calibration module is a great idea.  How much did it cost to build?  I had mine calibrated by a friend when I got it, but it's been a while.  The MC testers are more sensitive to calb, especially the older ones.  From what I heard the modern emission testers are less prone to drift.


----------



## randytsuch

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Thanks for the info - that'll come in handy.  I'll be looking to upgrade the caps in time - to bad I missed the Empirical Audio Lyr that sold a few months ago - nice upgrades across the board!  Saved the list of upgrades - I'll at least swap out the Wimas for some V-Caps or some AuraTeflons.  The Ad on these forums didn't state which they used - anyone have an idea?  They did state they added a high-voltage Black-Gate 'lytic' for plate voltage - 22uFd, 350VDC  and 4 Panasonic low-ESR 'lytics' to replce the inexpensive low voltage decoupling caps.
> 
> Someone got a real bargain - the hot roddiest Lyr out there I'm sure!!!


 
  Did you see this thead
http://www.head-fi.org/t/649183/some-schiit-lyr-mods#post_9119326
   
  He made the Teflon caps himself.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I even built the calibration module for my Sencore T28. If money was no object I would get the Sencore MU150 Continental but I would rebuilt it if it has not been done in order to have any accuracy in the meter readings.


 

 One of the reasons I like the Sencor Mighty Mites:
   
  From tubesound blog:  http://tubesound.com/2007/10/24/sencore-mighty-mite/
   
  "The super-sensitive grid leakage test is probably the best attribute of a Mighty Mite.  As the electron emitting material of cathode is worn away from age, some of the cathode material that has evaporated gets deposited on the grid.  This causes the grid to incorrectly emit electrons – “grid emission”.  This causes the grid to draw current and be more positive than it should be, thereby negatively affecting the circuit."
   
  In some of my monster KT-88 amps (ASL Hurricanes 8 - KT-88s per mono block), leaky tubes would blow resistors, this feature saved me a lot of headaches!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





randytsuch said:


> Did you see this thead
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/649183/some-schiit-lyr-mods#post_9119326
> 
> He made the Teflon caps himself.


 

 Thanks randytsuch!  I looked for and hoping to find this post!!  Made the Teflon caps himself - Uggg!  That's way over my head.  Hey lucky guy who bought that Lyr, any interest in selling it for a nice profit???


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





randytsuch said:


> Did you see this thead
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/649183/some-schiit-lyr-mods#post_9119326
> 
> He made the Teflon caps himself.


 

 Just read the whole post - I guess there are Teflon V-Caps that will fit.  Good News!  that's an easy one.  As are the Wima cap upgrades.  He leaves no stone unturned!  Love the idea of cutting the traces and using silver wire to the input RCAs.   Great advice on the fuses!  Well the Seimens CCa grays are so damn expensive and in my various amps and DACs that use the 6922, I had really good luck with the Voshkod 6n23 rockets (saucer getters) and sold all my CCas.    The rockets were so close in sound at a fraction of the cost, low noise, never had any microphonics, and damn near bulletproof. 
   
  My Lyr is coming today.  After the customary 200 hr burn-in, I'll see how they sound there.


----------



## randytsuch

He said:
   I used a custom teflon cap that I had made for my older tubeDAC, but you can use Mundorf, V-Caps or others. I recommend a teflon cap with tin film or copper film. Avoid plated Mylar.
   
  I would just use a V Cap or Mundorf caps.  I have a pair of Ampohm caps that are no longer in use, which should work here, as long as they fit.  I plan to try them one of these days.
   
  Randy


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





randytsuch said:


> He said:
> I used a custom teflon cap that I had made for my older tubeDAC, but you can use Mundorf, V-Caps or others. I recommend a teflon cap with tin film or copper film. Avoid plated Mylar.
> 
> I would just use a V Cap or Mundorf caps.  I have a pair of Ampohm caps that are no longer in use, which should work here, as long as they fit.  I plan to try them one of these days.
> ...


 

 It would be great if one of the reputable Modders would pick the Lyr for a Mod package.  I can do the soldering but don't enjoy it!
   
  Thanks for the info!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





randytsuch said:


> Did you see this thead
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/649183/some-schiit-lyr-mods#post_9119326


 
  This is a very timely post for me as I'm building a 300B from plans.
  It's bookmarked.
   
  I'll leave the Lyr stock and use the 300B as a Franken-Amp.  I can't deviate from the BOM as I would introduce unknowns.
  Should it actually work,  I might experiment with different caps and such.  Perhaps then the Lyr.
   
  Sorry about making a non-tube rolling post.  I will refrain.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Just read the whole post - I guess there are Teflon V-Caps that will fit.  Good News!  that's an easy one.  As are the Wima cap upgrades.  He leaves no stone unturned!  Love the idea of cutting the traces and using silver wire to the input RCAs.   Great advice on the fuses!  Well the Seimens CCa grays are so damn expensive and in my various amps and DACs that use the 6922, I had really good luck with the Voshkod 6n23 rockets (saucer getters) and sold all my CCas.    The rockets were so close in sound at a fraction of the cost, low noise, never had any microphonics, and damn near bulletproof.
> 
> My Lyr is coming today.  After the customary 200 hr burn-in, I'll see how they sound there.


 
   
  I'd be interested to know how the Voskhod 6N23P's sound in the Lyr, i have the Saratov variant and i'm not really that impressed, treble is not very detailed and rolled off, i'm hoping the Voskhods will fair better.
   
  I had Voskhod 6N1P's and was impressed with them apart from the mids, they were a very good tube.
   
  Amperex PQ 6DJ8's are going to take some knocking off their pedestal at the moment, my favourite tube so far with my HE5-LE's.


----------



## tuna47

I have been using orange globe holland and bugle boy I find the orange globe makes the music sound sweeter really great


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I have been using orange globe holland and bugle boy I find the orange globe makes the music sound sweeter really great


 
  They do sound quite nice!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> This is a very timely post for me as I'm building a 300B from plans.
> It's bookmarked.
> 
> I'll leave the Lyr stock and use the 300B as a Franken-Amp.  I can't deviate from the BOM as I would introduce unknowns.
> ...


 
  It's alright...we all go off on a tangent from time to time...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## john57

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Having a calibration module is a great idea.  How much did it cost to build?  I had mine calibrated by a friend when I got it, but it's been a while.  The MC testers are more sensitive to calb, especially the older ones.  From what I heard the modern emission testers are less prone to drift.


 
  It cost me about $8 in parts to built it. Here is the web page that explains it all. Most older tube testers need to be rebuilt in order to match factory calibration. The Sencore MU units like the 140 and 150 are the hardest to calibrate as many mutual dynamic tube testers. Sencore has one of highest sensitivity for leakage testing. BK testers are good also. My TC28 required me to break open the factory seals on the calibration pots inside along other things before testing will even work properly. I have three testers myself. I was lucky to find a TC28 without too much rust on it. 
   
http://tubesound.com/2007/10/24/sencore-mighty-mite/
   
http://www.tone-lizard.com/Sencore.htm


----------



## john57

Quote: 





glam bash said:


> It's about time someone mentioned the Smokies. They are my personal favorite for well recorded vocals with the Lyr(HE-500 phones).


 
  When I tried the GE smokies from my collection of tubes it was love at first sight and performed much better than in the pervious pre-amp. I now have a half dozen pairs of the smokies just came in the mail!


----------



## Mando323

My  PCC88 7DJ8's and Modi got here today. All I can really say is WOW. I am wondering if a Bifrost would even improve this set up. It already sounds damn near perfect to me.


----------



## RyuGTX

Quote: 





mando323 said:


> My  PCC88 7DJ8's and Modi got here today. All I can really say is WOW. I am wondering if a Bifrost would even improve this set up. It already sounds damn near perfect to me.


 
   
  There is the possibility of ordering the Bifrost to listen for yourself and then returning the one you liked least. As long as you meet the requirements for the 15 day satisfaction guarantee offered by Schiit. Keep in mind that you only have 15 days from getting your product to decide and that there is a restocking fee.
   
http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/warranty-returns/


----------



## sceleratus

mando323 said:


> My  PCC88 7DJ8's and Modi got here today. All I can really say is WOW. I am wondering if a Bifrost would even improve this set up. It already sounds damn near perfect to me.




How many reasons would you like?

1 The Modi is a toy
2 The Bifrost Über upgrade
3 It matches your Lyr.
4 Your street-cred on this thread
5 .....


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





john57 said:


> It cost me about $8 in parts to built it. Here is the web page that explains it all. Most older tube testers need to be rebuilt in order to match factory calibration. The Sencore MU units like the 140 and 150 are the hardest to calibrate as many mutual dynamic tube testers. Sencore has one of highest sensitivity for leakage testing. BK testers are good also. My TC28 required me to break open the factory seals on the calibration pots inside along other things before testing will even work properly. I have three testers myself. I was lucky to find a TC28 without too much rust on it.
> 
> http://tubesound.com/2007/10/24/sencore-mighty-mite/
> 
> http://www.tone-lizard.com/Sencore.htm


 

 Thanks for the great info!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I'd be interested to know how the Voskhod 6N23P's sound in the Lyr, i have the Saratov variant and i'm not really that impressed, treble is not very detailed and rolled off, i'm hoping the Voskhods will fair better.
> 
> I had Voskhod 6N1P's and was impressed with them apart from the mids, they were a very good tube.
> 
> Amperex PQ 6DJ8's are going to take some knocking off their pedestal at the moment, my favorite tube so far with my HE5-LE's.


 

 Tried them last night.  They sounded very good.  I have not tried my Amp Orange Globes or Bugle Boys yet - wish I still had those coup de gras Seimens CCa grays - sold them long ago.
   
  The Voskhods Rockets 6N23Ps sounded wonderful as usual, much more detailed then the stock GEs.  They also removed the traces of harshness and glare from the GEs.  Richer tonality and increased detail.  With the Rockets had a few captivating moments with the Lyr, where the music just drew me away, but they where just moments.  My Woo will do this for whole albums -time will tell.
   
  I have tried just about every Russian tube out there - did not particularly like the Voskhod 6N1Ps nor the Reflector OTK 6N1Ps - no match IMHO for the 6N23P Rockets.  Funny a few years ago the Voskhod Rockets where very hard to find - now they are plentiful on E-bay.  I'll have to get some of the earlier date codes
   
   
  The Lyr is still breaking in.  So far a bit disappointing in comparison to the Woo WA6-SE.  But I have set the Lyr on my usual - 8 hr on - 2hrs off - burnin schedule.  I'll give it at least a hundred hours before making any absolute judgments.  The Woo is much more open, with a deeper and much wider sound stage.  Also the bass is much deeper and has a more natural tone.  I like the Lyr's transparency and quick dynamics.  The Lyr should open up with breakin,  My experience with MOSFETs they take longer to breakin then tube outputs.
   
  Headphones: Senn HD800 (early serial number) Moon Black Dragon V2 cable.


----------



## Timodeus

john57 said:


> When I tried the GE smokies from my collection of tubes it was love at first sight and performed much better than in the pervious pre-amp. I now have a half dozen pairs of the smokies just came in the mail!






Hope they will make my HE-500 sing also when they arrive. At the moment I am back to 
Akg701 and HE-300 with philips miniwatts as my favourites.


----------



## rb2013

The Lyr is opening up nicely - after only 24hrs. Big improvement in the sound
   
  Just bought a pr of Philips SQ E88CC/6922 1960's Halo getters - just to compare with the Rockets.  These rank in the top five of all time greats!
   
  From www.tubeworld.com:
  "Lush-rich-liquid midrange, sweet top end, very 3-dimensional, good bass."
   
  I've had these before and they are a great tube - very musical - wide sound stage.
   
  One beautiful thing about tube gear - if you get bored of the sound...just do some tube rolling!


----------



## Mando323

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> How many reasons would you like?
> 
> 1 The Modi is a toy
> 2 The Bifrost Über upgrade
> ...


 
  I've decided that if I do buy the bifrost, it will be with the higher end upgrades. Time to start, saving I guess(Well, after I purchase my Galaxy s4).


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Tonight I rolled in a set of Siemens & Halske E88CC, CCa grey plates. Wow!! With the HD800's these are endgame tubes - the best I've heard from these cans so far. The detail and accuracy (listening to baroque concerti) was exceptional. Nice bass too - strong and tight.


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> ...  I suggest trying the Amperex Pinched Waist 6922s.
> They are in a different league compared with other tubes.


 
   
  Lord Soth, I took the leap and acquired a set of NOS 1959 Amperex USA PQ 6922 Pinched Waist w/ D getter. Listening to these on my Lyr/Bifrost/T1 combo, these are truly in a different league compared to the Lorenz Stuttgart 3-mica. I still love the Lorenz but these pinched waist are just something else. I had chills running down my spine hearing Eva Cassidy sing True Colours. 
   
  Thank you for suggesting these tubes! 
   
  ckc


----------



## Lord Soth

Hi CKC,

Yes the pinched waist are the end-game tubes for any 6DJ8 based equipment.

Glad to hear that they worked out for you! 

Cheers!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Tonight I rolled in a set of Siemens & Halske E88CC, CCa grey plates. Wow!! With the HD800's these are endgame tubes - the best I've heard from these cans so far. The detail and accuracy (listening to baroque concerti) was exceptional. Nice bass too - strong and tight.


 

 for me Lorenz Stuttgart 3mica is the end game tubes.  I haven't try the CCa or E88cc.  but I tried the ecc188 S&H.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Lord Soth, I took the leap and acquired a set of NOS 1959 Amperex USA PQ 6922 Pinched Waist w/ D getter. Listening to these on my Lyr/Bifrost/T1 combo, these are truly in a different league compared to the Lorenz Stuttgart 3-mica. I still love the Lorenz but these pinched waist are just something else. I had chills running down my spine hearing Eva Cassidy sing True Colours.
> 
> Thank you for suggesting these tubes!
> 
> ckc


 

 Hi ckc,
   
  How much did you pay for the pinch waists?  They are rated on the tubeworld site as the best of the vvery best of the 6922/6dj8 tubes. Any mirco-phonic issues?  These tubes are notorious for noise issues.
   
  Thanks,
   
  Bob


----------



## HK_sends

I don't have any pinched-waist D-Getters, but I have a couple sets of Amperex Bugle Boys 1959 D-Getter ECC88 (and one PCC88) tubes that I can part with.  I just got them recently from Mercedesman on Ebay.  They only have a couple of hours on them.  I also have a matched set of Amperex Orange Globe ECC88s and a matched set of Amperex Orange Globe 7308s.  PM if interested
   
  I'll cut interested folks a deal (i.e. $100 for the Amperex Bugle Boys 1959 D-Getter ECC88)...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> for me Lorenz Stuttgart 3mica is the end game tubes.  I haven't try the CCa or E88cc.  but I tried the ecc188 S&H.


 
   
  I have a few pairs of the Stuttgart 3mica's and I am going to roll those back in this weekend to try to A/B with the S&H on the HD800's. No question the Stuttgart's are very, very high on my list. It is just that I did not have the HD800 until recently and the S&H grey plates blew me away with this headphone.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Lord Soth, I took the leap and acquired a set of NOS 1959 Amperex USA PQ 6922 Pinched Waist w/ D getter. Listening to these on my Lyr/Bifrost/T1 combo, these are truly in a different league compared to the Lorenz Stuttgart 3-mica. I still love the Lorenz but these pinched waist are just something else. I had chills running down my spine hearing Eva Cassidy sing True Colours.
> 
> Thank you for suggesting these tubes!
> 
> ckc


 
   
  Is there a source that has these tubes available?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Tonight I rolled in a set of Siemens & Halske E88CC, CCa grey plates. Wow!! With the HD800's these are endgame tubes - the best I've heard from these cans so far. The detail and accuracy (listening to baroque concerti) was exceptional. Nice bass too - strong and tight.


 
   
  I felt they _needed_ the DAC upgrade to make them worthwhile. But now, their pretty much stuck in. I have other tubes lying by the Lyr. If I put them in she generally spits them back out and cries for the CCa's.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Is there a source that has these tubes available?


 
  Hi Scott,
   
  I didn't look, but Brent Jessee usually has those items


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> I have a few pairs of the Stuttgart 3mica's and I am going to roll those back in this weekend to try to A/B with the S&H on the HD800's. No question the Stuttgart's are very, very high on my list. It is just that I did not have the HD800 until recently and the S&H grey plates blew me away with this headphone.


 

 with my ecc188, it blew me away.  When I listened to Lorenz 3mica.  It's finish game for me.  Although, I'm curious about CCa sound.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I felt they _needed_ the DAC upgrade to make them worthwhile. But now, their pretty much stuck in. I have other tubes lying by the Lyr. If I put them in she generally spits them back out and cries for the CCa's.


 
   
  I can understand that!!


----------



## sceleratus

Forgive me for going off-topic, although my question is about tubes.
   
  I'm looking for recommendations for 300B and 6N6P tubes for my 300B project.
  If you've had them in the past please post to my 300B Build thread or PM me with any wisdom you can pass along.
   
  Thanks


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Hi Scott,
> 
> I didn't look, but Brent Jessee usually has those items


 
  Yes, he does, thanks!


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Hi ckc,
> 
> How much did you pay for the pinch waists?  They are rated on the tubeworld site as the best of the vvery best of the 6922/6dj8 tubes. Any mirco-phonic issues?  These tubes are notorious for noise issues.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The NOS ones I got are dead quiet, non microphonic.
   
  Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Is there a source that has these tubes available?


 
   
  They pop up every once in awhile on ebay, just like the Lorenz Stuttgart.
   
  I'll have to warn though, YMMV depending on your chain. I currently still prefer the Lorenz 3-mica when using HE-500. On the T1, the pinched waist is the clear winner for me.
   
  ckc


----------



## BenchmarkGrado

Fellow HeadFiers,



Recent posts mention rolling the S&H E88CC CCA grey plates. Has anyone experience with the 1960s S&H E88CC CCA silver shields NOS as disclosed by jellofund in post #7204 offered by Lil' Knight and priced at $280 for a MP? Anyone heard a difference or know the difference between the grey and silver shields?

I had a bit of a holy schiit moment earlier when I spotted this listing in trading: http://www.head-fi.org/t/663708/matched-pairs-or-quads-of-nos-siemens-halske-cca-e88cc-6dj8-silver-shield-1960s-superb-condition

Thanks,

Mc


----------



## guitarlp

I'm thinking of trying some GE 6DJ8 Smoked tubes in my Lyr, but I have a question about buying on eBay. What the the test number's they're listing? I'm assuming higher is better... but do I want both the numbers to be the same? For example:
   
   


> [size=medium] *Tested on a Hickok 6000A   *[/size]
> [size=medium] *Micromhos NOS 7000/7000  *[/size]
> [size=medium] *Min = 4200/4200*[/size]
> [size=medium] *8400/8500 *[/size]
> [size=medium] *8600/7500*[/size]


 
  When he says 8400/8500 is that good? Is 8600/7500 worse? Are these not matched? I'm a bit confused about the whole rating system.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





guitarlp said:


> I'm thinking of trying some GE 6DJ8 Smoked tubes in my Lyr, but I have a question about buying on eBay. What the the test number's they're listing? I'm assuming higher is better... but do I want both the numbers to be the same? For example:
> 
> 
> When he says 8400/8500 is that good? Is 8600/7500 worse? Are these not matched? I'm a bit confused about the whole rating system.


 
   
  8400/8500 for example is just one tube, those are the values of each of the triodes in that tube, 8400/8500 is a pretty good match. 8600/7500 not so good.
   
  Lyr uses both triodes (so i'm told) so triode balanced tubes aren't really necesary, we just need to average both triodes so 2 tubes work out similar.
   
  if we take 8400/8500 and add them together and divide by 2, we get an average for that tube, so 8400+8500/2=8450 Now we do the same for the other tube 8600+7500/2=8050
   
  So one tube is 8450 and other is 8050, so not really a very good match, There is a roughly 5% difference in these tubes, some people may not notice, others with better hearing might notice.
   
  If you can get that pair cheap enough they could be worth a go.
   
  As for the figures, around 10,500/10,500 would be what we call "NOS" or "New old stock", so those numbers you posted would be between 70-80% of what a NOS tube would test, they still have plenty of life, but they have been used quite a bit.


----------



## mhamel

The Gm numbers also differ from tester to tester.   I'm still learning the ropes on this maxipreamp tester I picked up, and a NOS 6DJ8 tube reads around 4500 Gm, based on where in the tube curve the tester takes the reading, according to the creator of the tester.    I'm still reading/learning the right way to plot that so that I know the best way to interpret the results from this - and in turn explain it the right way to people who ask why the tube's numbers look low in comparison to other testers.
   
      -Mike


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> 8400/8500 for example is just one tube, those are the values of each of the triodes in that tube, 8400/8500 is a pretty good match. 8600/7500 not so good.
> 
> Lyr uses both triodes (so i'm told) so triode balanced tubes aren't really necesary, we just need to average both triodes so 2 tubes work out similar.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've been trying to get my head round how to meaningfully interpret these sorts of readings too so that's really helpful.
   
  One thing with the tubes in question though. You mention 10,500 / 10,500 being "NOS" levels but is that the case with this particular seller's tester as he states "Micromhos NOS 7000/7000"? In which case these tubes could be considered to still be at "NOS" levels in terms of their strength?
   
  Is the "Min 4200/4200" quoted the level below which tubes would be considered not to be in usable condition?
   
  Cheers.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I don't have any pinched-waist D-Getters, but I have a couple sets of Amperex Bugle Boys 1959 D-Getter ECC88 (and one PCC88) tubes that I can part with.  I just got them recently from Mercedesman on Ebay.  They only have a couple of hours on them.  I also have a matched set of Amperex Orange Globe ECC88s and a matched set of Amperex Orange Globe 7308s.  PM if interested
> 
> I'll cut interested folks a deal (i.e. $100 for the Amperex Bugle Boys 1959 D-Getter ECC88)...
> 
> ...


 

 You now have ONE LESS pair for sale, my friend!!!  $150 D-getters for $100? Yes, please


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





benchmarkgrado said:


> Fellow HeadFiers,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Mc - you want to be careful in your terminology on these tubes, it can get confusing.  There are S&H CCa and there are S&H E88CC 6922s.  They are different tubes.  The CCa was a ruggedized version of the E88CC, has longer life, and is less prone to mirco-phonics. 
  If you go to www.tubeworld.com they do a good job of documenting the different tubes with close-up pictures.  Just look under pre-amp tubes for 6922.
   
  The Siemens CCa is much more expensive then the Siemens E88CC, is much better sounding.  In fact the Siemens CCa is considered to be one of the best 6922 variant tubes around (some say only excelled by the 1950s Amperex Pinch waists). 
   
  Of course the Siemens CCa was made over a period of years with some design changes.  The earlier version had a gray shield and "U" getter - these are rarest and most prized and date from the 1950s.  Later versions had the gray shield and "o" getter - these are ones you usually see for sale on Ebay.  They date from the 1960s - they are excellent.  Then there were the later 1970s version with silver shiny shields - these are good but not great in my experience and are probably worth avoiding due to high cost.    The Siemens E88CC whether the Halske version or not, is really not that exceptional in my experience.  They are not bad - but can be bland and a bit harsh - and not really cheap.  Best to look elsewhere.
   
   
  From tubeworld
   
  ------------------- CCa was a E88CC specially selected for "Post Germany"; special low noise, low microphonic, long-life 6922. Philips had similar selections for the "Dutch Post", some tubes are selected had "PTT" etched. The "German and Dutch Post" = telephone, telegraphie, telex, and the postal system. Much of the telephone centrals used tube equipment and for telephone equipment you want a "noise-free" enviroment. The letters "CC" probably equates to "double triode", and/or a for special design.
   
  As far as which CCa is the best - again from tubeworld:
   

```
[color=#ff0000][size=6][b]The Best Sounding CCa=6922 ever made[/b][/size][/color] TOP 5: ----- 1) CCa Siemens & Halske 1950's "U" getter halo and 1960's "O" getter halo "Rarest and most sought after CCa, has "gray shield" between plates, Most realistic sounding holographic soundstage, pure seductive sonic joy, complex symphonic images emerge effortlessly" 2) CCa Telefunken West Germany 1960's "excellent neutral holographic soundstage, vast vocabulary of tone establishes remarkable layers of harmonics, very rare" 3) CCa Siemens & Halske A-FRAME construction late 1960's - early 1970's "beautiful open air holographic images, low microphonic tube construction, rare" 4) CCa LORENZ West Germany early 1960's "beautiful open air holographic images, very rare" 5) CCa VALVO Heerlen Holland 1960's "real sonic holography, extremely rare" 6) CCa Siemens Rohre A-Frame early 1973-1974 (in stock, silver shield)
```
   
  Hope this helps!~


----------



## rb2013

Just a word of caution to those out there looking to buy NOS 6DJ8/6922s.  Buyer beware!~
   
  From Brent Jesse's website:
   
 A Note About Amperex 6922 and Bugle Boy Tubes:  Because the trade names of "Amperex" and "Bugle Boy" have been sold to a USA electronics firm, there is much confusion in the tube world about Bugle Boy tubes. I will try to clear up the confusion as briefly as possible. This company bought the rights to the name Amperex, the name Bugle Boy, and the rights to the cartoon tube logo. This new owner is NOT Dutch Philips or North American Philips, who originally owned Amperex and made the 1950s to 1970s vintage tubes that audiophiles want. When I mention "Amperex Holland" or "Amperex USA", I refer to the original Dutch and North Amperican Philips owned companies (now defunct) that made the vintage tubes, now in demand by audiophiles, up until the late 1970s. There are 6922 tubes being sold today under the name Amperex Bugle Boy, and they even come in a green and yellow box like the original Amperex tubes. THESE ARE NOT AMPEREX TUBES AT ALL, AND THEY ARE NOT NOS. They are either relabeled new Chinese or late production JAN Sylvania tubes. These fakes contain several errors:
  1. Genuine NOS Amperex Holland or Amperex USA NEVER used the words "Bugle Boy" on their tubes or boxes.
  2. Genuine NOS Amperex tubes NEVER had the cartoon Bugle Boy printed on the tube box.
  3. Philips/Amperex Holland or North American Philips/Amperex USA NEVER made a 6922 (E88CC) tube with the Bugle Boy cartoon on the box. They also NEVER made a 7308 or E188CC with the Bugle Boy on the box OR glass. In this family of tubes, only the 6DJ8 had the cartoon tube on the glass, but again, never on the box.
  4. Again, there IS NO SUCH THING as a genuine NOS Amperex "Bugle Boy" 6922 or 7308 tube. This bears repeating!
  5. We stock the real NOS 1960s and 1970s Amperex (Holland and USA made) 6922 and 7308 tubes. They either used the white label or the orange (or later green) globe logo label, with either the PQ (premium quality) logo, or were military USN/CEP or JAN labeled. We also stock the real NOS Holland 6DJ8 Bugle Boy tubes from the 1960s. Amperex did not make these in the USA. These DO have the cartoon boy on the label, but NEVER had the words "Bugle Boy" printed on the box or the tube glass.
  6. Nearly all of the NOS 1960s and 1970s real Amperex tubes have the factory date codes on the side of the glass. The fakes do not.
  7. Please call or e-mail us if you have any questions about these tubes or our stock, and what may be the right tube for your needs. Thank you!


----------



## rb2013

Looking at Brent Jesse's website - I have been buying from him for years - he has really expanded his offerings!
   
  Stuff I have never seen before!  Tubeworld doesn't even list them.
   
  "7DJ8 / PCC88 RARE Pinched Waist, 1950s D-Getter, Philips Holland made."  Never heard of a 7DJ8/PC88!  and they are compatible!  Whoa!  Got to try a pr of these!!
   
  Jesse says they are equivalent and will work in 6DJ8 amp...anyone tried them??
   
  Well $1000/pr for the 6DJ8 pinched waist vs $299 for the 7DJ9 pinched waist - quite a difference!
   
  But he also notes a Siemens E88CC is considered a "civilian" version of the CCa.  So to add to the confusion - I guess I stand corrected. 
   
  Although Brenden at tubeworld does not say anything about that.  It looks like they have similar plate structure. Do these sound as good as real CCas - well tubeworld does not think so.  But I guess Jesse does.
   
  I wish Jesse would post photos like tubeworld.


----------



## Lord Soth

rb2013 said:


> Looking at Brent Jesse's website - I have been buying from him for years - he has really expanded his offerings!
> 
> Stuff I have never seen before!  Tubeworld doesn't even list them.
> 
> ...




I have some experience with those tubes.

No sonic diff between PCC88 and 6DJ8 for tubes of the same variety.

PCC88 pinched waist versus 6922 Pinched waist.
6922 has less sonic veil.
PCC88 has slightly more bass emphasis.
PCC88 has slightly wider soundstage.
The mids and treble of both are sweet sounding.

I'm more of a sonic transparency guy so my vote goes to the 6922 pinched waist version.
IMHO, the $$$ pricing reflects this correctly.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





benchmarkgrado said:


> Fellow HeadFiers,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wondering myself if anyone here had bought these...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> You now have ONE LESS pair for sale, my friend!!!  $150 D-getters for $100? Yes, please


 
  Actually I wasn't counting yours...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  These are what I was talking about (I have two sets):
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221209236824?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I've been trying to get my head round how to meaningfully interpret these sorts of readings too so that's really helpful.
> 
> One thing with the tubes in question though. You mention 10,500 / 10,500 being "NOS" levels but is that the case with this particular seller's tester as he states "Micromhos NOS 7000/7000"? In which case these tubes could be considered to still be at "NOS" levels in terms of their strength?
> 
> ...


 
   
  It would depend which scale they are reading.
   
   

   
  If they are interpreting using the middle one, then yes tubes would be "NOS" and going well outside the meters readings, if they interpret with the bottom one, then the tubes would just about scrape into "good"
   
  What we are basically measuring is transconductance, if you look at a tube data sheet for ECC88/6DJ8 they specify 12.5mA/V or 12,500 mmhos.
   
  I've seen claims on ebay that 11,500 mmhos is 107%, depends how the reading was taken.
   
  From a post i stole from another forum, interesting reading...
   
   


> I'm afraid such numbers are essentially meaningless.
> 
> Attempting to describe the health of a complex component with one number is doomed to failure. Valve tolerances are such that one new valve might easily have 50% more transconductance than another new valve. As anatech says, transconductance falls over the life of a valve. How will you distinguish between a new valve with lowish transconductance (but plenty of life in it) and a very tired but initially high transconductance valve?
> 
> ...


 
   
  mmhos rating can only really be used as a guide for matching tubes, not testing their outright condition it would seem. The readings we ideally want from tube sellers is the Ia and gm values.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> I have some experience with those tubes.
> 
> No sonic diff between PCC88 and 6DJ8 for tubes of the same variety.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks!  I may give the PCC88s a try.  At some point with the tube cost one might be better off with a WA22 or WA5LE.


----------



## bsn

I just picked up a matched NOS set of Telefunkens from Brent Jessee.  Not the expensive 6922, but the slightly more affordable 6DJ8 / ECC88 Telefunken West Germany with diamond mark.  GM: 10,500/10,000 10,500/10,000.  They are still breaking-in I have about 20-hours on them. 
   
  So far they have been very quite.  These tubes are fast and very detailed with a lot of air around the instruments. Piano is really sweet sounding standout on these Telefunkens.  Their tonality is neutral in the bass and midrange to slightly bright in the highs, but not overly bright.  They seem to pair well with my Grado PS-500 more so than my AKG K702s.
   
  I’m hoping the highs will mellow just a bit with a 100-hours on them, but they are very nice right out of the box. If you are looking for maximum detail, neutrality, and air, then these Telefunkens are worth considering.  If you want the classic tube warmth, then I would suggest you look elsewhere.


----------



## MickeyVee

Had to try out the Bugle Boys so I bought a used pair of eBay for $20.00 plus shipping.  I read the earlier post on the fakes and these seem to be the real thing. Here's what was in the listing:
     
     One Matched Pair Philips Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 Tubes, Vintage Year 1967
     Since I purchased them 1 month ago, I used them only about 2 hours using to test them in my audio rig.
     My preference to other tubes, I decided to sell this pair. Written below is the original seller's statement.
        One  matched pair of Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 tubes, by Philips of Holland.
        Good silkscreen.
        The engraved codes are  delta7A4 and delta7G4.
        Medium ring  getter.
        Good test ratings.
        Test ratings: 95/95% and 95/95% on my Jackson 648S tester. Min. at 70%, new tubes at 95%"
   
  Did my usual DeoxIT, rolled them in and have been running for about 1/2 hour.  Sound seems pretty clean but maybe not as engaging as my Orange Globes. Still way too early to tell but for $20, what the heck.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Had to try out the Bugle Boys so I bought a used pair of eBay for $20.00 plus shipping.  I read the earlier post on the fakes and these seem to be the real thing. Here's what was in the listing:
> 
> One Matched Pair Philips Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 Tubes, Vintage Year 1967
> Since I purchased them 1 month ago, I used them only about 2 hours using to test them in my audio rig.
> ...


 
   
   
  Absolutely!  Worth a shot!  I like the OGs better also, but my BBs are still really nice.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nelamvr6 said:


> Absolutely!  Worth a shot!  I like the OGs better also, but my BBs are still really nice.




The Amperex A-frames are very nice too. Listening to them right now . . .


----------



## Mediahound

Question - how do I get socket savers out of the Lyr? I guess I will have to take the Lyr apart? 
   
  They do not come out when I pull the tubes.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

mediahound said:


> Question - how do I get socket savers out of the Lyr? I guess I will have to take the Lyr apart?
> 
> They do not come out when I pull the tubes.




If you wiggle the tubes the right way the socket savers will usually come loose (at least my Tubemonger savers do).


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> If you wiggle the tubes the right way the socket savers will usually come loose (at least my Tubemonger savers do).


 
   
  Mine are also Tubemongers. I tried that but it just bent the tube pins a bit. I think the tubes I'm running are old and the pins may be weak. 
   
  I guess I can try it with another set of tubes to see if that does the trick.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Question - how do I get socket savers out of the Lyr? I guess I will have to take the Lyr apart?
> 
> They do not come out when I pull the tubes.


 
  Needle-nose Pliers will work (make sure the power is off!).
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Needle-nose Pliers will work (make sure the power is off!).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Do you grab around the socket saver? Or, in the pin holes? Seems like there may not be enough room for the tool.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Do you grab around the socket saver? Or, in the pin holes? Seems like there may not be enough room for the tool.


 
  Grab the socket saver...don't stick anything in the pin holes (except pins).  Another trick is to find a tube that fits tight in the socket savers and try to use the tube to work the socket saver out.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

I have one saver that stays in the Lyr when the other one comes out easily.  I have a set of needle nose pliers that are really long and thin...that's what I usually use.
   
  Hope it helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Grab the socket saver...don't stick anything in the pin holes (except pins).  Another trick is to find a tube that fits tight in the socket savers and try to use the tube to work the socket saver out.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have one saver that stays in the Lyr when the other one comes out easily.  I have a set of needle nose pliers that are really long and thin...that's what I usually use.
> 
> Hope it helps...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> You now have ONE LESS pair for sale, my friend!!!  $150 D-getters for $100? Yes, please


 
  Listening to a pair right now


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Listening to a pair right now


 

 Thoughts?
   
  My pair of '62 large halo are really smooooth. I can't wait to hear the D-getters.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Thoughts?
> 
> My pair of '62 large halo are really smooooth. I can't wait to hear the D-getters.


 
  Pretty nice just changed to velours so I have to listen to them more, but I do like what I'm hearing.


----------



## wolfetan44

What tubes are recommended for HD650's? Also, does the Lyr play well with the DT880?


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> What tubes are recommended for HD650's? Also, does the Lyr play well with the DT880?


 
  To my ears, the Amperex Orange Globes ('66-69) and Amperex orange A-frames ('70-75) sound great with the 650. They are very detailed and smooth, but a little more forward and compliment the HD650's laidback sound very well.
   
  I recently auditioned some '67 RTC E188CC's. Although costly, they pair extremely well and are probably endgame tubes for the HD650, IMO.
   
  Not sure about the Beyer DT880 as I haven't heard it.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sweet, I'll look at them. I've also been recommended the Bugle Boys.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Sweet, I'll look at them. I've also been recommended the Bugle Boys.


 
  I have the Bugle Boys and 1967 Amperex Orange Globes if you need them.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have the Bugle Boys and 1967 Amperex Orange Globes if you need them.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just pm'd you HK


----------



## R Scott Ireland

oldskool said:


> To my ears, the Amperex Orange Globes ('66-69) and Amperex orange A-frames ('70-75) sound great with the 650. They are very detailed and smooth, but a little more forward and compliment the HD650's laidback sound very well.
> 
> I recently auditioned some '67 RTC E188CC's. Although costly, they pair extremely well and are probably endgame tubes for the HD650, IMO.
> 
> ...




+1. I was listening to the A-frames last night. Just OK with HD800 and LCD-3. But very, very nice and lush with the HD650. A great match. Didn't listen with the DT880 - ill do that later tonight and report back.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> +1. I was listening to the A-frames last night. Just OK with HD800 and LCD-3. But very, very nice and lush with the HD650. A great match. Didn't listen with the DT880 - ill do that later tonight and report back.


 
   
  Are those A frames the ECC88 PQ shield ones? That's what i'm using at the moment, Heerlen made, best tubes i've heard so far with my hifimans, just wish i could find a back-up pair just as cheap.
   
  The codes on my tubes are:
   
  CAE
Δ2J1
   
  So would that be '62 or '72? i have no idea how to tell what decade the tubes are from.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

ilikepooters said:


> Are those A frames the ECC88 PQ shield ones? That's what i'm using at the moment, Heerlen made, best tubes i've heard so far with my hifimans, just wish i could find a back-up pair just as cheap.
> 
> The codes on my tubes are:
> 
> ...




No PQ on mine. date codes are among ⊿1H3 ⊿2J3 ⊿4H1 ⊿4J2; listed as between 1971 and 1974?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

r scott ireland said:


> No PQ on mine. date codes are among ⊿1H3 ⊿2J3 ⊿4H1 ⊿4J2; listed as between 1971 and 1974?




PS - they are Heerlen, with grey plates.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Are those A frames the ECC88 PQ shield ones? That's what i'm using at the moment, Heerlen made, best tubes i've heard so far with my hifimans, just wish i could find a back-up pair just as cheap.
> 
> The codes on my tubes are:
> 
> ...


 

 Those should be from '72. I have never seen an a-frame from the '60's.
   
  Cool thing is the A-frames are less microphonic due to the sturdy A-frame construction.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Just pm'd you HK


 

 Good choice.  I highly recommend this seller. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!


----------



## ilikepooters

Feels strange that i'm using tubes that were made 10 years before i was born.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Those should be from '72. I have never seen an a-frame from the '60's.
> 
> Cool thing is the A-frames are less microphonic due to the sturdy A-frame construction.


 

 I stand corrected. According to this guide I found, it looks like the first a-frame came out in '69.
   
  Note: I'm not the author of this guide, I just found it linked somewhere and saved it. Apologies to whoever took the time to put it together.


----------



## weitn

I am selling a pair of NOS Amperex Bugleboy Rare Large Halo Getter (made in Holland). Below is the link to the ads.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/665283/nos-amperex-bugleboy-rare-large-halo-getter-made-in-holland
   
  Please PM me if interested.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

r scott ireland said:


> +1. I was listening to the A-frames last night. Just OK with HD800 and LCD-3. But very, very nice and lush with the HD650. A great match. Didn't listen with the DT880 - ill do that later tonight and report back.




I listened to the Amperex A-Frames with the Beyer DT880 (600 ohm). The mid-high and high frequencies are a little edgy and the sound is a bit congested; not bad per se, but not a great match. Pleasant, but both the phones and tubes can perform much better. I suspect that tubes with a warmer signature, like Mullards, would be a better match for the DT880. It seems like the idiosyncrasies of the Senn HD650 happen to line up well with the A-Frame tube. Warm, lush; very musical and engaging.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Just pm'd you HK


 
  Thanks!  Got it!
  Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Good choice.  I highly recommend this seller.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You are too kind, Sir!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> More Siemens PCC189's have gone up on sale, i really can't reccomend these tubes highly enough, they absolutely trounce the stock tubes, absolute bargain.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-PCC189-7ES8-SIEMENS-NOS-NEW-OWN-BOX-/221207288653?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Elektronenr%C3%B6hren_Valves&hash=item3380fb5b4d
> 
> Looks like they'll keep turning up every so often.
> ...


 
  Man I decided to roll these(they've been sitting me desk for some time) and guess what, They sound pretty darn good.


----------



## Eternalmetal

Hi everyone, I just started tube rolling with my Schiit Lyr and I have a question id like to have cleared up.  I got the 61NP and 6BZ7 tubes from Schiit and have been comparing between them.  I liked them both for different reasons (undecided), but I have a guitar amp that just so happens to have tubes that fit with the same pin pattern.  I plugged them into my Lyr and I got no sound at all.  They were Groove Tubes with the model number GT-12AX7-R.  I wasnt really expecting much, but considering they were the same size and pin configuration I was wondering why they werent compatible.  Can anyone explain why this is so for me?


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





eternalmetal said:


> Hi everyone, I just started tube rolling with my Schiit Lyr and I have a question id like to have cleared up.  I got the 61NP and 6BZ7 tubes from Schiit and have been comparing between them.  I liked them both for different reasons (undecided), but I have a guitar amp that just so happens to have tubes that fit with the same pin pattern.  I plugged them into my Lyr and I got no sound at all.  They were Groove Tubes with the model number GT-12AX7-R.  I wasnt really expecting much, but considering they were the same size and pin configuration I was wondering why they werent compatible.  Can anyone explain why this is so for me?


 
  What guitar amp?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





eternalmetal said:


> Hi everyone, I just started tube rolling with my Schiit Lyr and I have a question id like to have cleared up.  I got the 61NP and 6BZ7 tubes from Schiit and have been comparing between them.  I liked them both for different reasons (undecided), but I have a guitar amp that just so happens to have tubes that fit with the same pin pattern.  I plugged them into my Lyr and I got no sound at all.  They were Groove Tubes with the model number GT-12AX7-R.  I wasnt really expecting much, but considering they were the same size and pin configuration I was wondering why they werent compatible.  Can anyone explain why this is so for me?


 
  Just because they have 9 pins doesn't make them compatible.
   
  Go to wikipedia and look up "triode" tubes.  The Lyr tubes have 2 triodes... dual triodes.  Each triode has 3 components Cathode, Anode, and Grid  So that's 6 of 9 pins.  Pin 9 is a shield.  Pins 4 & 5 are "Heaters"  Like small filament light bulbs the heaters heat the cathode.  Cathode gives up electrons to the Anode (plate) and the grid controls the flow.  Valves.
   
  Anyway, different tubes,  they are electrical "valves" have different pin assignments for those components.  Also the voltages of the heaters are different.  Lyr valves are 6.3V
   
  Ya gotta stick with compatible series valves.  6DJ8, ECC88, E88CC, E188CC, 6922, PCC88, and a bunch more.


----------



## wolfetan44

So for a versatile amp that'll be great with just about any amp headphone, go for the Lyr?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





eternalmetal said:


> Hi everyone, I just started tube rolling with my Schiit Lyr and I have a question id like to have cleared up.  I got the 61NP and 6BZ7 tubes from Schiit and have been comparing between them.  I liked them both for different reasons (undecided), but I have a guitar amp that just so happens to have tubes that fit with the same pin pattern.  I plugged them into my Lyr and I got no sound at all.  They were Groove Tubes with the model number GT-12AX7-R.  I wasnt really expecting much, but considering they were the same size and pin configuration I was wondering why they werent compatible.  Can anyone explain why this is so for me?


 
  The 12AX7 tubes are 12 volt tubes as opposed to the 6N1P/6BZ7s which are 6 volt tubes.  The pin pattern is the same but the internal wiring and power requirements are different.
  The fine folks in this thread can recommend good tubes to roll into the Lyr.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Mc - you want to be careful in your terminology on these tubes, it can get confusing.  There are S&H CCa and there are S&H E88CC 6922s.  They are different tubes.  The CCa was a ruggedized version of the E88CC, has longer life, and is less prone to mirco-phonics.


 
  Here's a Telefunken specification sheet that cover CCa / E88CC / 6922.   Not sure about S&H but to Telefunken they are the same valve with the same specification.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> So for a versatile amp that'll be great with just about any amp headphone, go for the Lyr?


 
  I'm not sure that's the best answer because the Lyr was designed for headphones with high power requirements, but there is the Asgard 2 and Valhalla amps that can cater to a variety of cans.  That being said, the Lyr does supposedly sound good with a lot of different headphones based on impressions I've seen on this thread.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> The 12AX7 tubes are 12 volt tubes as opposed to the 6N1P/6BZ7s which are 6 volt tubes.  The pin pattern is the same but the internal wiring and power requirements are different.
> The fine folks in this thread can recommend good tubes to roll into the Lyr.
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


 
  Actually... technically... you can run them parallel at 6.3V
  I "believe" the biggest problem is Grid voltage.


----------



## wolfetan44

But not _great?_ Because I will most likely have a lot of different headphones in my future.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> But not _great?_ Because I will most likely have a lot of different headphones in my future.


 
  You'll note that a lot of folks that post in this thread love the Schiit Lyr.
  It's a very versatile Amp with the power to drive even the most power hungry HPs.
   
  My opinion is the Lyr is the constant and the musicality comes from pairing different valves with different HPs.
  There are many posts in this thread on that topic.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Actually... technically... you can run them parallel at 6.3V
> I "believe" the biggest problem is Grid voltage.


 
  I defer to your wisdom!  I really am a newb concerning tube internals and electronics in general. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I just know the first numbers on the tube type designates what the voltage is (at least on the ones I've used).
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> You'll note that a lot of folks that post in this thread love the Schiit Lyr.
> It's a very versatile Amp with the power to drive even the most power hungry HPs.
> 
> My opinion is the Lyr is the constant and the musicality comes from pairing different valves with different HPs.
> There are many posts in this thread on that topic.


 
  What he said... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I defer to your wisdom!  I really am a newb concerning tube internals and electronics in general.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I just love reading the spec sheets......
  Not that I understand them


----------



## erikfreedom

i'd like to know what is the best and most trustable place to find and buy rare tubes on the net. especially nos tubes of the 6922 and e88cc family. I have bought a pair of 6922 nos tubes at tubedepot and they have shipped me early seventies us amperex 6922 pq orange label. and I had ordered white label us amperex 6922 pq from the sixties.
   
  the orange label tubes are worth 50 bucks at the most, yet these clowns have charged me 400 bucks for a pair of white label pq amperex that I was supposed to have.
   
  the orange label amperex sound miles ahead of the brand new genalex gold lions e88cc. and I am very happy about them, but I was expecting genuine white label 6922 amperex pq.
   
  so if anyone can recommend me a trustable place, I would be very happy, cause I want to have a pair of those famous white label amperex pq made in usa.
   
  even those with the weird shape.


----------



## mhamel

I've finally gotten my tester in and am going through and getting things tested to sell.   I've probably got 15-20 pairs of the Siemens ECC189s.   I've been listening to a pair of them for around a week now and they are outstanding tubes.  Some of the best I've heard in the Lyr.   They're pricier than the PCC189s, they cost me quite a bit more than the PCCs,,, but will still be pretty reasonable.
   
  I've also got several varieties of PCC85s and PCC189s, including Haltron, Mazda, RFT, Toshiba and Taito, and they all sound pretty good from what I've heard so far.   Plus, around 40 pairs of 1958 RCA 6BZ7s that'll be going up for sale and a few others.   As with most 6BZ7s, they can be microphonic, but if you're not tapping on them and you've got tube dampers, they're fine.   They will also be pretty inexpensive.
   
     -Mike
   
   
   
   
 Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> More Siemens PCC189's have gone up on sale, i really can't reccomend these tubes highly enough, they absolutely trounce the stock tubes, absolute bargain.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-PCC189-7ES8-SIEMENS-NOS-NEW-OWN-BOX-/221207288653?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Elektronenr%C3%B6hren_Valves&hash=item3380fb5b4d
> 
> Looks like they'll keep turning up every so often.
> ...


 
    
  Quote:


gerald410 said:


> Man I decided to roll these(they've been sitting me desk for some time) and guess what, They sound pretty darn good.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





erikfreedom said:


> i'd like to know what is the best and most trustable place to find and buy rare tubes on the net. especially nos tubes of the 6922 and e88cc family. I have bought a pair of 6922 nos tubes at tubedepot and they have shipped me early seventies us amperex 6922 pq orange label. and I had ordered white label us amperex 6922 pq from the sixties.
> 
> the orange label tubes are worth 50 bucks at the most, yet these clowns have charged me 400 bucks for a pair of white label pq amperex that I was supposed to have.
> 
> ...


 
  I have had great experiences with TubeMonger (http://www.tubemonger.com/) and MercedesMan on Ebay.  Folks have gotten tubes from Brent Jesse (http://www.audiotubes.com/) and Upscale Audio (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/) among others...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





eternalmetal said:


> Hi everyone, I just started tube rolling with my Schiit Lyr and I have a question id like to have cleared up.  I got the 61NP and 6BZ7 tubes from Schiit and have been comparing between them.  I liked them both for different reasons (undecided), but I have a guitar amp that just so happens to have tubes that fit with the same pin pattern.  I plugged them into my Lyr and I got no sound at all.  They were Groove Tubes with the model number GT-12AX7-R.  I wasnt really expecting much, but considering they were the same size and pin configuration I was wondering why they werent compatible.  Can anyone explain why this is so for me?


 
   
  I have made some adaptors that will let you use tubes like the 12AX7's in the Lyr, have a look a few pages back or send me a PM.


----------



## erikfreedom

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have had great experiences with TubeMonger (http://www.tubemonger.com/) and MercedesMan on Ebay.  Folks have gotten tubes from Brent Jesse (http://www.audiotubes.com/) and Upscale Audio (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/) among others...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  thanks for the links. that place, audiotubes is incredible. I have never seen so many rare tubes in stock. they even have those rare pinched waist tubes that I want so bad. you have truly made my day my friend. what I like about audiotubes is that at least they know what they have and they tell if it is in stock. very nice place to buy tubes indeed. I think I will check to buy those piched waist tubes. he has 2 pairs at 600 bucks a pair. when I started rolling tubes with my lyr I went from the stock ge to a pair of electro harmonix 6922. the electro harmonix 6922 is a honest tube, but not very good. then I went for a pair of new genalex gold lions 6922. sound quality on the lyr was upgraded exponentialy with these tubes. then I received those orange label pq amperex 6922 and sound quality again was improved exponentialy over the gold lion tubes. so much that with these tubes, I think that my lyr sound better than my 3 channel beta 22. I never thought that tubes could improve sound so radically.
   
  schiit lyr has enormous potential for great sound quality.


----------



## NightFlight

oldskool said:


> Good choice.  I highly recommend this seller.
> 
> Cheers!





Did I read this out of context? Or, is HK a seller?


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Did I read this out of context? Or, is HK a seller?


 

 I just bought a pair of '59 Bugle Boys from him...hence the "seller" reference.
   
  HK does sell a few tubes from his collection every now and again, as we all have.
   
  Also, he is a trusted member of this forum and others here have gotten great tubes from his collection.
   
   
  Cheers!


----------



## erikfreedom

I have spoken to the guy at audiotubes by email and he will ship me a pair of pinched waist usa amperex white label pq gold pins from the fifties. sorry for my wallet.


----------



## NightFlight

eternalmetal said:


> Hi everyone, I just started tube rolling with my Schiit Lyr and I have a question id like to have cleared up.  I got the 61NP and 6BZ7 tubes from Schiit and have been comparing between them.  I liked them both for different reasons (undecided), but I have a guitar amp that just so happens to have tubes that fit with the same pin pattern.  I plugged them into my Lyr and I got no sound at all.  They were Groove Tubes with the model number GT-12AX7-R.  I wasnt really expecting much, but considering they were the same size and pin configuration I was wondering why they werent compatible.  Can anyone explain why this is so for me?





Hey when you put some 6DJ8 compatibles in there, please respond back to this thread with weather or not your Lyr still works. Seriously.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Hey when you put some 6DJ8 compatibles in there, please respond back to this thread with weather or not your Lyr still works. Seriously.


 
  This.
   
  Sending 6.3v to common ground doesn't sound healthy.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





eternalmetal said:


> Hi everyone, I just started tube rolling with my Schiit Lyr and I have a question id like to have cleared up.  I got the 61NP and 6BZ7 tubes from Schiit and have been comparing between them.  I liked them both for different reasons (undecided), but I have a guitar amp that just so happens to have tubes that fit with the same pin pattern.  I plugged them into my Lyr and I got no sound at all.  They were Groove Tubes with the model number GT-12AX7-R.  I wasnt really expecting much, but considering they were the same size and pin configuration I was wondering why they werent compatible.  Can anyone explain why this is so for me?


 

 This is really a bad idea - different tubes have different wiring configuration - even if they fit in the same tube socket.  Be sure to stay with compatible tubes.  Or you risk blowing up your amp.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





erikfreedom said:


> i'd like to know what is the best and most trustable place to find and buy rare tubes on the net. especially nos tubes of the 6922 and e88cc family. I have bought a pair of 6922 nos tubes at tubedepot and they have shipped me early seventies us amperex 6922 pq orange label. and I had ordered white label us amperex 6922 pq from the sixties.
> 
> the orange label tubes are worth 50 bucks at the most, yet these clowns have charged me 400 bucks for a pair of white label pq amperex that I was supposed to have.
> 
> ...


 

 I would also checkout www.tubeworld.com.  Brendan really knows his stuff - I have been buying from him for years.  He is very consistent (but expensive).  Great pictures to educate yourself on what the different tubes look like.
   
  Of course there is www.Audiogon.com.  Just bought a really sweet pair of 1960s date code Holland Amperex Philips SQ E88CCs (Halo Getters) for $160 from sam1104.  These same tubes go for $360 on Brent Jesse's http://www.audiotubes.com/.  Maybe audiotubes are a little better matched - these were pretty close.  But not for $200 a pr more!
   
  sam1104 has a really high feedback score (1745)
  I have a tester, so will test them when they arrive, and check for microphonics.  I'll report my experience.  
   
  So far the Lyr is breaking in really well, opening up, with the sound stage widing and deepening.  I'm liking it better then the Woo WA6-SE at this point.  It's so lively!  The Woo is a bit boring in comparison.  The Voshkod 6n23 Rockets are sounding wonderful in the Lyr.  Great detail and air (a lot like the S& H CCa grays I had), excellent dynamics - really quick, the Lyr is naturally musical with rich tonality (got to love those MOSFETs!) - the Rockets enhance that by adding more air and PRAT.  The Rockets remove all traces of glare and are sweetly musical - even on those grainy recordings.   These are the all time steal in the 6922 world!  Even Brent gives them a nice review!!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Did I read this out of context? Or, is HK a seller?


 
  More of a "Recycler"... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> More of a "Recycler"...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ditto. Recycler here as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm seldom a seller, except after those rare times that my wife peeks in my tube drawer.


----------



## NightFlight

rb2013 said:


> I would also checkout www.tubeworld.com.  Brendan really knows his stuff - I have been buying from him for years.  He is very consistent (but expensive).  Great pictures to educate yourself on what the different tubes look like.
> 
> Of course there is www.Audiogon.com.  Just bought a really sweet pair of 1960s date code Holland Amperex Philips SQ E88CCs (Halo Getters) for $160 from sam1104.  These same tubes go for $360 on Brent Jesse's http://www.audiotubes.com/.  Maybe audiotubes are a little better matched - these were pretty close.  But not for $200 a pr more!
> 
> ...





My limited exposure to the Russian tubes was a V shaped signature. Is this at all true of the 'Voshkod'?


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> My limited exposure to the Russian tubes was a V shaped signature. Is this at all true of the 'Voshkod'?


 
  The 6n23 Voshkod Rockets have a very unique upside down "flying saucer" getter.  I have never seen a getter like that in any other tube.  They are also made of exceptionally thick glass and are quite heavy.  The "Rocket" logo on mine is almost imperceptible.  You have to look at them under a strong light.
   
  Stay away from the Russian Reflectors with a blue 'OTK' stamp - they suck.  Also for any of the 6n1s.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> The 6n23 Voshkod Rockets have a very unique upside down "flying saucer" getter.  I have never seen a getter like that in any other tube.  They are also made of exceptionally thick glass and are quite heavy.  The "Rocket" logo on mine is almost imperceptible.  You have to look at them under a strong light.
> 
> Stay away from the Russian Reflectors with a blue 'OTK' stamp - they suck.  Also for any of the 6n1s.


 

 Just bought three with 1977 date stamps on E-bay for $24!~  How sick is that!!! That's $24 for ALL three
   
  And another 10pc all the same 1980 date codes for $69!!~


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> My limited exposure to the Russian tubes was a V shaped signature. Is this at all true of the 'Voshkod'?


 

 What's nice both my Bada Amps use the 6922 as well!
   
  When I first got these amps - I did a years worth of tube rolling.  Bought every 6dj8/6922/7302/CCa I could find, and back then they were more plentiful and much cheaper. Wound up selling all my S& H CCa gray and silver shield for a small fortune (but wish I kept them, as prices have almost doubled since!).  The grays were slightly better then the rockets in some ways - not worth the cost.  Especially when one S&H CCa died on me.
   
  Notice those very sweet Toshiba MOSFET outputs on each side - runs in class A until 30 watts then biases over to A/B.  Dual massive Toroidal trannies for each channel and a dedicated R-core transformer for the 6922 tube class A, no feedback, pre-amp section.  Nice design!


----------



## ilikepooters

I'm selling a whole bunch of my tubes to make space for more tube rolling, anyone that is new and would like to dive in to the world of tube rolling these are ideal.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/665822/schiit-lyr-tubes-job-lot
   
  Some very good glass in there!


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Ditto. Recycler here as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Must resist the temptation ..... no difficulty points ......


----------



## HK_sends

Hey guys!
   
  Tubemonger sent this to me and I thought I would share it with you...
   
  "No association with the seller but the price is good:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seven-E88CC-6DJ8-Amperex-branded-tubes-to-choose-from-NOS-tested-on-Hickok-/261221441444?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item3cd202dfa4"
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## NightFlight

oldskool said:


> Ditto. Recycler here as well.
> 
> I'm seldom a seller, except after those rare times that my wife peeks in my tube drawer. :wink_face:





Hide them!!!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Must resist the temptation ..... no difficulty points ......


 

 I know...I know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Just trying to be accurate, as I really do keep them in a drawer.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

oldskool said:


> I know...I know.
> 
> Just trying to be accurate, as I really do keep them in a drawer.




I keep mine in a drawer too. Uh . . . Actually three drawers.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> I keep mine in a drawer too. Uh . . . Actually three drawers.


 

 Well, it IS a big drawer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Been meaning to ask...What's your fav tube with the Lyr and HD800?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

oldskool said:


> Well, it IS a big drawer. :wink_face:
> 
> Been meaning to ask...What's your fav tube with the Lyr and HD800?




So far it is the Siemens & Halske CCa with grey plates. But I haven't yet rolled through all my tubes. Although I can't imagine anything sounding better!


----------



## OmsJtmz32

Hi guys, gonna start tube rolling with lyr after using the stock Ge tubes for a few months. Any suggestions for tubes around 100-150?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





omsjtmz32 said:


> Hi guys, gonna start tube rolling with lyr after using the stock Ge tubes for a few months. Any suggestions for tubes around 100-150?


 
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1970-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-8D4-/321127555293?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac4b1a0dd
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1959-D-GETTER-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-/221228336164?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33823c8424
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1960-LARGE-O-GETTER-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-/221204034385?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3380c9b351
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1965-O-GETTER-MATCHED-PAIR-5E2-/321086422996?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac23dffd4
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1966-O-GETTER-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-/221193383219?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3380272d33
   
  These are all from Mercedesman, he's a straigh shooter, a great guy to deal with.  they're not NOS, but if he says they're in good shape, you can trust him.  And if they were NOS they would cost a lot more.


----------



## gerald410

The O-getters sound pretty nice, mine are circa 1961


----------



## Zuckfun

Trying to find the right tube to pair with He400, to lessen bright treble. For instance the drums on some recordings sound too sharp. Currently using Telefunken 6922, and these aren't addressing this issue. I read maybe Siemens or Amperex 6dj8. Thanks for any tips


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Trying to find the right tube to pair with He400, to lessen bright treble. For instance the drums on some recordings sound too sharp. Currently using Telefunken 6922, and it seems good, but isn't addressing this issue. I read maybe Siemens or Amperex 6dj8. Thanks for any tips


 
   
  I don't have the HE400, but you might want to try some Mullards. With my headphones/amps, they generally produce a warmer profile than Siemens, Voshkod, Philips, etc.  The Amperex Orange Globes might also be worth a try.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Trying to find the right tube to pair with He400, to lessen bright treble. For instance the drums on some recordings sound too sharp. Currently using Telefunken 6922, and these aren't addressing this issue. I read maybe Siemens or Amperex 6dj8. Thanks for any tips


 
   
  Amperex PQ ECC88, i use these with HE5-LE and the treble is very natural sounding and airy, not fatiguing at all. The bass and mids are very impressive.
   
  They are basically a cherry picked Orange globe, then they paint on the PQ shield.
   
  Those ones posted above by nelamvr6 should be just the ticket.
   
  Another alternative would be Saratov/Reflektor 6N23P/6N23P-EV they have rolled off treble which should play nice with overly bright headphones.


----------



## Zuckfun

Thanks for the feedback. I ordered a couple of the above mentioned Amperex tubes, and hopefully these will provide the sound I'm searching for. Thanks again


----------



## fatube

Hi guys

  as I had written previously orange A frame are by far my favorite, there is based on the same tube or d ' wear sometimes sound different strange and yet true

  2 pair Orange globe A frame although the tubes is almost nine unr rodé times 1 is more precise, detailed, + expressive and rounder other l in the low medium?

  Why wear is running is the same

  Recently bought a tube that j ' loves of 6b7z is 6bz7a it not nothing to do?,  a 6bz7A is ultra precise is dynamic, very detailed, very airy, the other is soft, lack ventilation, more fluid

  see photo:6BQ7A

   

  SECOND 6B7Z


   
  test recently with siemens pcc88 100% with heating a 7 volt one are very airy, a serious round and are rather analog, no  hyper-analytical , bass round !


   
  Valvo pcc88 A frame fabric herleen :
  pcc88 valvo are ultra tube refined, more refined that tested fluid not hot, natural beautiful manufactured by philips herleen as often in Valvo

  no bass hyper closes fairly balanced !
   sound nothing to do with Orange globe a frame amperex



   
  the Amperex 6922 fabric en germany :
   

   

   
  tube new
  tube purchased from jesse brentjes made in germany ( tungsram ) ? a rare very soft sound for a 6922 between the boy buggle is Orange globe, no aggressiveness in the high medium remarkable heat and lack of ventilation, ample low rather fluid is not closed but powerful
  excellent !
   
  tube Amperex Orange globe 6dj8  disk :


   

  tube orange globe amperex disk a dimple,  is the first time that I am testing a medium hot tube, between the buggle boy are remarkable analog with a lot of relief holographyque, fluid, notes comes out with shading, realistic, wide bass is powerful alas not quite detailed but my favorite tube after orange A frame 
   
  other upcoming


----------



## ilikepooters

Those fake Mullard 6BQ7A's are back on ebay again.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-6BQ7A-ECC180-6BZ7-LABELED-MULLARD-MADE-IN-GREAT-BRITAIN-NOS-NEW-BULK-BOX-/221230918271?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Elektronenr%C3%B6hren_Valves&hash=item338263ea7f
   
  Under the label it says "Taiwan R.O.C 6BZ7"
   
  They do sound very good though, had a pair myself. Almost sounds like an Amperex 6DJ8 on the cheap, but not quite as smooth treble and i'd say a hair more bass.


----------



## fatube

Me here is back, make me well understand, with a translator, recently test 6bqz7 Mazda very rare at home, some are plated real money!

  This is copper rod at mullard or brimard, ignition flash as c4024 12at7 compatible No. course!

  Fluid Aun, very neutral, looks a bit was the general electric 6BQ7A medium carnal very good song!

  considered the best 6BQ7A in France


   

  second test Mullard E88cc :
   



   

    2 different tubes buy on ebay 1 manufactured by Mullard mitcham, the second by philips herleen

  put this pair unfortunately not identical sounds them airy is stretched like a pretty round string, high dynamic, strong bass is full,  found the medium much less hot than the globe, orange dimple, not overly aggressive Amperex in the high medium
  Personally one of my tube prefer safe value !


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Today I received a pair of the French RTC E188CC tubes, manufactured in Suresnes. I listened to them, along with RTC's made in Heerlen, Holland. Used the Schitt stack (Lyr with Bifrost Über) and Senn HD800.

I'm afraid it's a tie. Both types deliver a very musical, engaging sound with a medium-wide soundstage and excellent clarity. The French tubes have a slight warm "edge" to the mids and highs, which is very pleasing. They are a little light in the bass - clean, nice, but light.

The Heerlen tubes have a deeper bass reproduction, yet still very clean and detailed. The warmth of the bass and mids is superb. Just the right amount. The very high frequencies are a little edgier, however, and lack slightly compared to the French tubes.

If you could combine the best qualities of both, I dare say you might have the perfect tube.

That said, they are both among the "top" tubes I've yet heard and each is totally musical and enjoyable. Also, the French tubes have exactly 2 hours on them (and the Heerlen's don't have much more), so characteristics may change with burn-in.

I tried the Audeze LCD-3's briefly with the French tubes. Nice, but nothing special. The LCD's just don't seem to like the Lyr (not enough anyway). Meanwhile they sound great with the Liquid Glass and the Pan Am. Go figure.

Anyway, either the French or Dutch flavored RTC's are very nice and I highly recommend either.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Today I received a pair of the French RTC E188CC tubes, manufactured in Suresnes. I listened to them, along with RTC's made in Heerlen, Holland. Used the Schitt stack (Lyr with Bifrost Über) and Senn HD800.
> 
> I'm afraid it's a tie. Both types deliver a very musical, engaging sound with a medium-wide soundstage and excellent clarity. The French tubes have a slight warm "edge" to the mids and highs, which is very pleasing. They are a little light in the bass - clean, nice, but light.
> 
> ...


 
  The French made ones definitely are a more warm, mid centric tube. Did you get them from E-bay and if so was it Lamberto or radio-collection?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

fearless1 said:


> The French made ones definitely are a more warm, mid centric tube. Did you get them from E-bay and if so was it Lamberto or radio-collection?




Yes, eBay from radio-collection. Same source as my Holland RTC's.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Today I received a pair of the French RTC E188CC tubes, manufactured in Suresnes. I listened to them, along with RTC's made in Heerlen, Holland. Used the Schitt stack (Lyr with Bifrost Über) and Senn HD800.
> 
> I'm afraid it's a tie. Both types deliver a very musical, engaging sound with a medium-wide soundstage and excellent clarity. The French tubes have a slight warm "edge" to the mids and highs, which is very pleasing. They are a little light in the bass - clean, nice, but light.
> 
> ...


 
  Interesting.
  I love my Dutch RTC's with my LCD2's   But then, I have nothing else to compare them to.
  That is the glass that has stopped me from looking at any other glass.
  I am very, very happy.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sceleratus said:


> Interesting.
> I love my Dutch RTC's with my LCD2's   But then, I have nothing else to compare them to.
> That is the glass that has stopped me from looking at any other glass.
> I am very, very happy.




For sure! It was your enthusiasm that introduced me to these wonderful tubes.

Also, I think it may be just the LCD-3 that doesn't play well with the Lyr; LCD-2 is a different animal.


----------



## jamato8

Even different LCD-2's can sound unlike each other. I had two LCD-2's. One was delicate and refined with more air while the other, which was good, did not have that level of sound.


----------



## sceleratus

Hey Ya'll
   
If you live in So. Cal there is an "Official Meet"  July 20th in Woodland Hills.
Come to think of it, you can attend even if you live in Herleen Holland.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Even different LCD-2's can sound unlike each other. I had two LCD-2's. One was delicate and refined with more air while the other, which was good, did not have that level of sound.


 
  That is a bit of a letdown considering QC between drivers.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





john57 said:


> That is a bit of a letdown considering QC between drivers.


 
  From what I've heard (no pun intended...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), the LCD-2s have gotten much better in their sound quality.  The current pair I have sounds very sweet...to the point where I haven't felt the urge to upgrade back to the LCD-3s.  For the record: I've owned the LVD-2 original (v.1), LCD-2 v.2, LCD-3, then finally, the December 2012-made LCD-2s.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

Back home again!  And what was waiting in my mailbox?  Some old Philips glass from France!  Time to do some rolling!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Back home again!  And what was waiting in my mailbox?  Some old Philips glass from France!  Time to do some rolling!


 

 Ooooooh, do tell!  Whatcha get?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Ooooooh, do tell!  Whatcha get?


 
  Sceleratus' favorite: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111037665429?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649  RTC E188CC.
   
  But I guess they're actually from Holland, though the brand is definitely French.  
   
  I have been sneaking listens between doses of pink noise, and I must say, they really sound nice!  I am surprised they sound so good after so little burn in.  I have to admit, just like Sceleratus and other here have said, they really do have an amazing, almost 3D soundstage! And they sound so airy and spacious. the treble is really smooth and nice, yet detailed.
   
  But I'm going to wait until at least 20 hours before I do any serious comparisons...


----------



## OldSkool

Nice!!!
   
  Those RTC's should sound fantastic with your LCD's! Enjoy!


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Sceleratus' favorite: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111037665429?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649  RTC E188CC.
> 
> But I guess they're actually from Holland, though the brand is definitely French.
> 
> ...


 
  Awesome. I was raving about them back when and I felt like my voice was lost in this thread. I am glad to see others trying them , they are by far my favorites (along with the Dario Miniwatts)


----------



## sceleratus

fearless1 was 1st


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> fearless1 was 1st


 
  They listened to you!


----------



## nelamvr6

Sorry, no slight intended...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Awesome. I was raving about them back when and I felt like my voice was lost in this thread. I am glad to see others trying them , they are by far my favorites (along with the Dario Miniwatts)


 
  I wouldn't say "lost" per se, it's more like folks were hesitant.  When one person says "these are awesome", it peaks everyone's interest but until a few more folks start lauding them, it's hard to jump on the bandwagon.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  We needed a few more guinea pigs...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - It was the same way with the Lorenz Stuttgart Tubes...


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I wouldn't say "lost" per se, it's more like folks were hesitant.  When one person says "these are awesome", it peaks everyone's interest but until a few more folks start lauding them, it's hard to jump on the bandwagon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, I agree. I had some real stinkers based on some of the experiences of others, we all hear different. For instance,  I detest the Russian tubes(in the Lyr) whereas others love them.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Yeah, I agree. I had some real stinkers based on some of the experiences of others, we all hear different. For instance,  I detest the Russian tubes(in the Lyr) whereas others love them.


 
   
  Also different headphones, different DAC's and different tastes in music, it all adds up differently for everyone.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Sorry, no slight intended...


 
   
   
  No slight taken, my intention was to show joy that these hidden gems are getting the admiration that they deserve!  They are fantastic. I have two sets, French and Holland made and I essentially sold off my others based on how much I enjoy them. The only ones I keep around are the Dario Miniwatts just because of the low end and separation they bring to the mix.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> But I guess they're actually from Holland, though the brand is definitely French.


 
   
  I'm sure it's a great tube, and that certainly is a French (Philips) brand.
   
  At the same time, I hope that everybody understands that a particular _brand printed_ on a tube is not going to change its sound in any way.


----------



## ilikepooters

I think it would be better to describe tubes by which factory they were made in, and if known, with which tooling rather than make.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Dear Lord Soth:

My ears are indebted to you . . . My wallet is another matter . . .

I sprung for a pair of Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist tubes from 1956, Heerlen production. They just arrived and I've been listening to them this evening with the Lyr/Bifrost-Uber stack and Senn HD800 phones.

These may be the best I've yet heard. They are ultra-detailed in all frequencies, with both a wide and deep soundstage. Listening to Mahler symphonies is like being in a concert hall - Row 15 Center. There is clear separation of instruments left to right, and a smoothness at all dynamic levels. They are so "liquid" and smooth in presentation that at first they seem warm, but that is not the case. Highs sparkle without sibilance; lows are tight and accurate.

The tubes are very microphonic, but Herbie's Rx tube dampeners fixes the problem.

In my personal rating system, they get 10 out of 10. The only other tubes that have been 10/10 (to my ears, of course - there is no objectivity to this!) are the Siemens & Halske CCa's. They are a different presentation, but also superior. Now I have to roll those in again to compare directly to the pinched waists.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Dear Lord Soth:
> 
> My ears are indebted to you . . . My wallet is another matter . . .
> 
> ...


 

 I got first dibs on Scott's 6DJ8 collection when the Schiit statement amp comes out!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Enjoy those pinched-waist 6922's, my friend. They are truly rarer than hen's teeth.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

oldskool said:


> I got first dibs on Scott's 6DJ8 collection when the Schiit statement amp comes out!!! :veryevil:
> 
> Enjoy those pinched-waist 6922's, my friend. They are truly rarer than hen's teeth. :tongue_smile:




You got it!

Thanks!!


----------



## joydivisi0n

I was lucky enough to get my first NOS tubes from HK_sends to begin my tube rolling journey.  (Very generous fellow by the way, give him your business...)  Here are my impressions, which should admittedly be taken with a grain of salt as my whole chain is a brand new experience for me, from the HE-500 to the Schiit Modi.
   
  Stock JJ tubes:  These are surprisingly okay.  Not much to say about these, does everything well.
   
  GE ECC85, Great Britain: My least favorite of the bunch.  A more forward presentation, with a less refined bass.  The level of detail is nice overall.  Sounded too shrill for my ears, and this is coming from a guy who likes Grados. 
   
  Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes: Now these live up to the hype.  I would say the mids and bass are a notch above the JJ tubes, with the treble being equally nice and sparkle-y.  Soundstage and imaging also improved.  Will definitely be enjoying these for a good long while before I consider trying out more tubes.


----------



## Lord Soth

r scott ireland said:


> Dear Lord Soth:
> 
> My ears are indebted to you . . . My wallet is another matter . . .
> 
> ...




Hi R Scott Ireland

Glad to hear that the pinched waist tubes worked out for you! 

I'm sorry for your wallet !!! 

But hey, all of us have to do our bit to help jump start the flagging World Economy.

So please consider buying a few more spares.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

lord soth said:


> Hi R Scott Ireland
> 
> Glad to hear that the pinched waist tubes worked out for you!
> 
> ...




Will do! (Maybe I can mortgage my tube collection)


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oskari said:


> I'm sure it's a great tube, and that certainly is a French (Philips) brand.
> 
> At the same time, I hope that everybody understands that a particular _brand printed_ on a tube is not going to change its sound in any way.


 
  I understand that, I was merely attempting to describe the tubes as completely and accurately as possible.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oskari said:


> I'm sure it's a great tube, and that certainly is a French (Philips) brand.
> 
> At the same time, I hope that everybody understands that a particular _brand printed_ on a tube is not going to change its sound in any way.


 
_Are you sure?_  I could swear that a Siemens made and branded PCC88 sounds better than a Siemens-made, Telefunken-branded PCC88...or a Lorenz SEL-branded, Tesla-made tube sounds better than a Tesla-branded tube.
_*...It's all about the brand, Man!!*_




   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I understand that, I was merely attempting to describe the tubes as completely and accurately as possible.


 
  Yes, that was with tongue firmly planted in cheek!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Sanlitun

My Matsu****a E88CC's just arrived from Tubemonger today (http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=591). I had heard some great things about these including some story that this factory was known for making a harder vacuum than usual (who knows lol). The price was right so hopefully these will live up to their reputation.
   
  My socket savers arrived as well with these. I get the feeling that if I tried to remove tubes it would pull out the socket savers as well. How are all of you managing this?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> My Matsu****a E88CC's just arrived from Tubemonger today (http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=591). I had heard some great things about these including some story that this factory was known for making a harder vacuum than usual (who knows lol). The price was right so hopefully these will live up to their reputation.
> 
> My socket savers arrived as well with these. I get the feeling that if I tried to remove tubes it would pull out the socket savers as well. How are all of you managing this?


 
   
  Hilarious that Matsu****a is censored!


----------



## bahorn

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> My Matsu****a E88CC's just arrived from Tubemonger today (http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=591). I had heard some great things about these including some story that this factory was known for making a harder vacuum than usual (who knows lol). The price was right so hopefully these will live up to their reputation.
> 
> My socket savers arrived as well with these. I get the feeling that if I tried to remove tubes it would pull out the socket savers as well. How are all of you managing this?


 
  It is actually pretty easy to remove the tubes without the socket savers.  But you can also use tubes to remove the socket savers; it's a little hard to describe since you have to wiggle them the right way.  R Scott gave me this tip.


----------



## Argo Duck

It's a while since I listened to my lyr - but I can tell you the matsu tubes were the first to show me how *really good* lyr can be (as well as stock, I'd tried several others around the $40-$50 ea mark before this).

Helped me understand why those rare, expensive options like lorenz might be worth the money. However, I decided to spend that money on another (pure tube) amp instead, one with a rep for sounding good with cheaper, more readily available tubes - as indeed it does!


----------



## PinkLed

Loving the Amperex A-frames over the other OG's ive tried.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

pinkled said:


> Loving the Amperex A-frames over the other OG's ive tried.




The A-frames particularly sing with my Senn HD650's (Lyr/Bifrost-Uber). Nice tubes!


----------



## nelamvr6

OK, I've finished my evaluation  of the RTC E188CC tubes.  Please note, the following observations are nothing more than my opinion.
   
  The RTCs are really excellent tubes, they lived up to all of the claims that everyone made, the soundstage was amazing, the air and presence superb.  Amazing treble, detailed and smooth.
   
  BUT...
   
  I sensed that something was missing.  I did several A/B comparisons, which BTW wasn't easy.  But I wanted to be sure.  As humans our sonic memories are notoriously unreliable.  
   
  After several trials, I have rolled my Orange Globes back in, and that's where they will stay.
   
  The RTCs were simply lovely, but they lacked heft and slam in the bass.  In this regard the OGs bested them by a wide margin IMHO.  Both tubes did an excellent job of providing taut, nimble bass that was always well controlled.  But the OGs bass was more tactile, visceral.
   
  Also, the OGs have a more fluid, lusher midrange.  The OGs give me more of a "tubey" sound in the midrange, and that's one of the big reasons I bought a tube amp in the first place.  The RTCs had an accuracy that was sometimes astounding, they sometimes sounded like I was listening to my solid state amp again.  And that's fine, if that's what you're looking for.
   
  The OGs have a treble that is every bit as marvelous as the RTCs in my estimation, but they do sacrifice quite a bit on soundstage.  The RTC's soundstage was wide, deep and stable, with amazing focus, a really 3D presentation.  The OG's soundstage to me is much more intimate, though certainly as stable and as focused.
   
  So, as is often the case, I had to chose what was more important to me.  I was simply not willing to give up the slam and heft in the bass, or the smooth, amazing mids of the OGs.
   
  So now my list of favorite tubes reads like this:
   
[size=x-small]1. Ampe[/size][size=x-small]re[/size][size=x-small]x 6DJ8 Orange Globes 1968[/size]
[size=x-small]2. Amperex USN 6922 D Getter 1960[/size]
[size=x-small]3. RTC E188CC [/size][size=x-small]circa 1967[/size]
[size=x-small]4[/size][size=x-small]. Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boy 1966[/size]
[size=x-small]5[/size][size=x-small]. Amperex USN-CEP 6922 '60's.[/size]
[size=x-small]6[/size][size=x-small]. RCA 6BZ7[/size]
[size=x-small]7[/size][size=x-small]. GE 6BZ7[/size]
   
[size=x-small]Again, just my opinion, YMMV etc etc...[/size]


----------



## erikfreedom

my tube collection excluding the original ge tubes. from left to right:
   
  mullard e88cc white label pinched waist d getter gold pins Heerlen Holland 1956.
  amperex 6922 orange label pq usa gold pins 1972
  genalex e88cc gold pins new production tubes.
  electro harmonix 6922 new production tubes.
   
  the electro harmonix are honest tubes. but a very small increase in sound quality over the stock ge tubes. not worth it.
  the genalex new production tubes are a good upgrade over both stock ge and electro harmonix tubes, but for the price paid you have much better nos tubes options. the sound is not that impressive at all. the amperex 6922 from early seventies are fantastic tubes. balanced sound, tight puchy bass, incredible soundstage, they are a huge upgrade in sound quality. of all my tubes, they have the cleanest sound. the pinched waist mullard from 1956 is a monster. the sound is like being in hd all the time even if the material is youtube 240p. holographic 3d soundstage that goes to infinity, very powerful bass, beautiful mids and sweet top end. the hifiman he 500 have especially gone into overdrive with these tubes. but the soundstage is the most impressive aspect of their sound. D'ont know if it can get any better than this. i have also heard good things about made in Germany siemens cca tubes. there is a good chance i will buy some. brent jesse has some of these tubes.


----------



## Junior mints

Ah man I thought I was done with this stuff. Don't know why I keep coming back. Where did you get the 1956 mallards? How much were they if you don't mind me asking. I'll have to keep a look out for some.


----------



## erikfreedom

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> Ah man I thought I was done with this stuff. Don't know why I keep coming back. Where did you get the 1956 mallards? How much were they if you don't mind me asking. I'll have to keep a look out for some.


 
   
  they cost a lot. 600 bucks for a pair of nos. with import fees and shipping it cost me 784 Canadian dollars. I bought them at audiotubes from brent jesse. I am very happy with the service there. they know their stuff. they have a boatload of incredible tubes. but prices are high. but i'd rather pay more and have the right tubes.


----------



## Sniperbombers

well i figured i might as well add a bit more tube-candy to the forum


----------



## ngyu

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> well i figured i might as well add a bit more tube-candy to the forum


 
   
  hot dang, nice collection... I only just got my Lyr, and looking for tubes... time to start a collection too!


----------



## nelamvr6

1956 Mallards?
   
  (Sorry, just struck me as funny...)


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> well i figured i might as well add a bit more tube-candy to the forum


 
   
   
  Nice!


----------



## ilikepooters

I've upgraded my Maverick D1 a little bit, well really i've just put a better tube in there.
   
  I was originally using the solid state pre-outs because the tube in there was one of those Shuguang chinese rubbish things that sounded terrible. Upgraded to a Raytheon 5670 with windmill getter and the sound is now absolutely amazing, i never realized how junk the solid state section of this amp/dac sounded until now.
   
  Lyr sounds a whole lot better now it's running on the Maverick's tube pre-out with the Raytheon.
   
  Makes me wonder how much better a Bifrost will sound over this Maverick D1. That's another thing to add to the shopping list i guess, along with an iBasso DX100 for my Miracles and the next Xbox.
   
  Gonna be an expensive year methinks


----------



## TonyRS

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> well i figured i might as well add a bit more tube-candy to the forum


 
  How much have you spent on all them tubes?!


----------



## Zuckfun

Telefunken E88CC vs Amperex PQ Orange Label 6922: Amperex seems warmer, but is no match for Telefunken's presentation, clarity and instrumental separation. Telefunken wins by knockout in the first round. From what I've heard, there are much greater Amperex tubes than the Orange Label, and these Telefunken's are some of their best. Not a fair contest probably. Also have a pair of Ediswans coming in next week to add to the mix. This can start to get too expensive. I was talked out of the Bugle Boys by someone who knows more than me (and there are lots). Recommended the Ediswan's instead. White Label Amperex (and maybe BB) will hopefully one day be in the collection.


----------



## TonyRS

I'm getting annoyed with the loud noisefloor on the Lyr.
   
  Anyway to stop it, guys?


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Telefunken E88CC vs Amperex PQ Orange Label 6922: Amperex seems warmer, but is no match for Telefunken's presentation, clarity and instrumental separation. Telefunken wins by knockout in the first round. From what I've heard, there are much greater Amperex tubes than the Orange Label, and these Telefunken's are some of their best. Not a fair contest probably. Also have a pair of Ediswans coming in next week to add to the mix. This can start to get too expensive. I was talked out of the Bugle Boys by someone who knows more than me (and there are lots). Recommended the Ediswan's instead. White Label Amperex (and maybe BB) will hopefully one day be in the collection.


 
   
   
  After burning them in for 75-hours I'm really loving my slightly less expensive [size=medium]ECC88 Telefunkens too!  Very detailed and neutral with an excellent sound stage.  I really have not had the urge to roll anything else in their place at the moment. [/size]


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tonyrs said:


> I'm getting annoyed with the loud noisefloor on the Lyr.
> 
> Anyway to stop it, guys?


 
  What tubes are you running?  
   
  My Lyr most definitely does NOT have a loud noise floor.  I suspect that if you upgrade your tubes you'll find the noise level improving.


----------



## OldSkool

I should know this...but I don't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Which tube handles the left channel? Front or rear?
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## Joong

Quote: 





bsn said:


> After burning them in for 75-hours I'm really loving my slightly less expensive [size=medium]ECC88 Telefunkens too!  Very detailed and neutral with an excellent sound stage.  I really have not had the urge to roll anything else in their place at the moment. [/size]


 
  My Telefunken E88CC, and Telefunken / Siemens E88CC also exceeds by far any Amperex of my possession.
  Siemens A frame with gold pin also sounds wonderful.


----------



## TonyRS

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> What tubes are you running?
> 
> My Lyr most definitely does NOT have a loud noise floor.  I suspect that if you upgrade your tubes you'll find the noise level improving.


 
  Currently running the stock tubes at the moment.
   
  Is that the reason why?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tonyrs said:


> Currently running the stock tubes at the moment.
> 
> Is that the reason why?


 
   
   
  Well, the Lyr platform is not known to be inherently noisy. If you're using the stock tubes, and you're experiencing noise, contact customer service, I'm sure they'd be glad to replace the stock tubes.  They should at least provide adequate signal to noise ratio.
   
  If you're interested in improving on the stock tubes, this is the right thread.  But the stock tubes should not be noisy.
   
  Can you describe the noise you're hearing?


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> I should know this...but I don't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Front Tube = left channel
   
    -Mike


----------



## Zuckfun

After burning them in for 75-hours I'm really loving my slightly less expensive [size=medium]ECC88 Telefunkens too!  Very detailed and neutral with an excellent sound stage.  I really have not had the urge to roll anything else in their place at the moment.

Agreed, find a great tube, and the search is over. Letting them burn in awhile is what made the difference for me. No urge to roll anything else either. Just sit back and enjoy[/size]


----------



## TonyRS

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Well, the Lyr platform is not known to be inherently noisy. If you're using the stock tubes, and you're experiencing noise, contact customer service, I'm sure they'd be glad to replace the stock tubes.  They should at least provide adequate signal to noise ratio.
> 
> If you're interested in improving on the stock tubes, this is the right thread.  But the stock tubes should not be noisy.
> 
> Can you describe the noise you're hearing?


 
  A light screeching noise in the background.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





tonyrs said:


> A light screeching noise in the background.


 
  no No and NO
   
  My Lyr is as quiet as a church on Superbowl Sunday.  Always was, still is.  Stock tubes or exotics.
  Sadly, yours has "an issue"
   
  I'm sure Schiit will help you sort it out.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> no No and NO
> 
> My Lyr is as quiet as a church on Superbowl Sunday.  Always was, still is.  Stock tubes or exotics.
> Sadly, yours has "an issue"
> ...


 
   
  Agreed.  Schiit customer service is really great, contact them, they'll take care of you.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





tonyrs said:


> I'm getting annoyed with the loud noisefloor on the Lyr.
> 
> Anyway to stop it, guys?


 
  Is it on one side or both?  It might be the tube pins and/or the socket contacts.  You might try turning off and unplugging the Lyr, then remove, swap around, and re-install the tubes and listening again.  Sometimes that will help the noise go away.  If not, then the problem is more likely something in the Lyr that Schiit would need to fix.
   
  Hope this helps...
   
  Cheers and Good Luck!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Front Tube = left channel
> 
> -Mike


 

 Thank you, Sir.


----------



## Grado77

I received this exact set of 6N1P-EV back in April and installed last night: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Quad-6N1P-EV-ECC88-6DJ8-Gold-Grid-NEW-NOS-/130887136703?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e797b35bf
   
  They are exactly as they look, the pin condition is A+.
   
  I have either an upgraded Uber Bitfrost (FLAC from Logitech Touch optical) or SACD feeding the Lyr.
   
  Using a myriad of phones (HE-500, 400, D5K, W1000X, PS500, AH-D600) ........ these tubes are awesome. Great separation, clarity, control, slightly bright (the way I like it)......very happy with these "inexpensive" yet excellent tubes.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





grado77 said:


> I received this exact set of 6N1P-EV back in April and installed last night: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Quad-6N1P-EV-ECC88-6DJ8-Gold-Grid-NEW-NOS-/130887136703?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e797b35bf
> 
> They are exactly as they look, the pin condition is A+.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You should notice the slightly recessed mids with those tubes. Bass and Treble are indeed awesome though.
   
  6N23P are deemed to be the best of the Russian tubes for the Lyr, i have some Voskhod 6N23P's on the way, some people have said they are outstanding, so i'm eagerly awaiting their arrival. If they are the same as the 6N1P Voskhods but with better mids i'll be very happy and probably sell my Amperex PQ's.


----------



## Grado77

Hmmm....I don't notice the recessed mids at all but I will buy a set of those other Russians you mentioned, thanks.....


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





grado77 said:


> I received this exact set of 6N1P-EV back in April and installed last night: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Quad-6N1P-EV-ECC88-6DJ8-Gold-Grid-NEW-NOS-/130887136703?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e797b35bf
> 
> They are exactly as they look, the pin condition is A+.
> 
> ...


 
   
  This looks like a good deal. Ordered some too.


----------



## NightFlight

erikfreedom said:


> they cost a lot. 600 bucks for a pair of nos. with import fees and shipping it cost me 784 Canadian dollars. I bought them at audiotubes from brent jesse. I am very happy with the service there. they know their stuff. they have a boatload of incredible tubes. but prices are high. but i'd rather pay more and have the right tubes.





oy! I'd rather hunt and find them cheap.Let your ear sort out the junk.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

I finally found some tubes for the Lyr/Bifrost-Uber stack that really like the LCD-3: Siemens & Haske E88CC Grey-Shields from 1964.

They sound very good with both the Senn HD800 and the LCD-3, but the LCD-3 gives more weight in the bass and mids (lacking in the HD800 with these tubes), while still retaining clean, bright highs - overall better. Soundstage on both cans is wide, but not deep.

It's a rare event for me to find tubes for the Lyr where I prefer the LCD-3 over the HD800. These are those 

I need to roll in some other S & H tubes to see if they have behave the same way - see if they have the same family traits (with the LCD-3), so to speak.


----------



## TonyRS

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Is it on one side or both?  It might be the tube pins and/or the socket contacts.  You might try turning off and unplugging the Lyr, then remove, swap around, and re-install the tubes and listening again.  Sometimes that will help the noise go away.  If not, then the problem is more likely something in the Lyr that Schiit would need to fix.
> 
> Hope this helps...
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks, going to try switching them around right now.
   
  Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Just out of interest, are you using really sensitive/low impedence headphones?
> 
> I've found i can hear hissing with anything too sensitive, this is because the volume pot controls the signal before it hits the tubes, the tubes are directly coupled to your headphones, volume pot won't affect the tubes, and thus a lot of noise gets through.
> 
> If it's different to hissing/buzzing or you're using high impedence or hard to drive headphones then i would contact Schiit.


 
  Using LCD-2's at the moment
   
  Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> no No and NO
> 
> My Lyr is as quiet as a church on Superbowl Sunday.  Always was, still is.  Stock tubes or exotics.
> Sadly, yours has "an issue"
> ...


 
  Hehe, you're right. I believe i might have a ground loop. I'll try to buy a ground loop isolator to see if that helps first.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





tonyrs said:


> Thanks, going to try switching them around right now.
> 
> Using LCD-2's at the moment
> 
> Hehe, you're right. I believe i might have a ground loop. I'll try to buy a ground loop isolator to see if that helps first.


 
  A ground loop is a problem in your house wiring.  It "can" be dangerous.
  Try to fix the problem first rather than mask it.  If it's too small to hunt down and isolate then mitigate it before it reaches your amp.


----------



## claud W

I just could not stand it. I had to try a new flavor---headphones. Got a pair of Mad Dogs yesterday. Very clean clear sound with good bass--midrange to die for. and cheap at $300!!


----------



## Grado77

Quote: 





tonyrs said:


> I'm getting annoyed with the loud noisefloor on the Lyr.
> 
> Anyway to stop it, guys?


 
   
  When I use low imp phones like AH-D600 or ATH-A900X with the Lyr and Philips PC189 tubes, it's very noisy (could be a bad set of tubes although they are dead quiet with HE-500). When swapping to 6N1P-EV, the noise level is minimal but not entirely eliminated. Asgard in comparison is silent.
   
  When using HE-500 or 400 with the above tubes, it is dead quiet.
   
  The Lyr is the only tube amp I've used with a high noise floor but also the most powerful. 3 Little Dot tube amps I use are all dead quiet.
   
  The Bitfrost I have connected to my Lyr causes a ground loop that can only be eliminated with a cheater plug or HumX ground loop isolator. The Bitforst is the only piece of a boatload of audio gear in my home that causes a ground loop scenario (doesn't matter which amp I use with it).
   
  It would be great if the units were plug and play, but they aren't and have to be finessed. It's still the best solution for my HE-500 as I hear almost zero noise when using them.


----------



## hedphonz

just ordered the lyr and due in a few days 
   
  cant wait to start some tube rolling but this thread is mammoth and Im going dizzy trying to comprehend it
   
  Can anyone suggest some tubes to give the HD800's more oomph in the bass department please


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## Salvatore

Since Lyr accepts pretty much all the same tubes than Aune T1, I figured there could be some interesting tube impressions and general info here (especially for the beginners, just skip the T1 specific sections):
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/633006/aune-t1-usb-tube-dac-amp-discussion-thread-see-first-post-for-faq/2010#post_9502294
   
  If any of you guys have some useful links that I could add to the post please send them to me. Oh and thanks for this great tube rolling thread!


----------



## TonyRS

Quote: 





grado77 said:


> When I use low imp phones like AH-D600 or ATH-A900X with the Lyr and Philips PC189 tubes, it's very noisy (could be a bad set of tubes although they are dead quiet with HE-500). When swapping to 6N1P-EV, the noise level is minimal but not entirely eliminated. Asgard in comparison is silent.
> 
> When using HE-500 or 400 with the above tubes, it is dead quiet.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks! Will be purchasing the HumX soon. Do you plug it into the Lyr or Bifrost?


----------



## Grado77

tonyrs said:


> Thanks! Will be purchasing the HumX soon. Do you plug it into the Lyr or Bifrost?




Bifrost....it works just as well as the cheater


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Mullard E88CC/ECC88
> Amperex 6DJ8 PQ/Orange globe
> Saratov 6N23P-EV
> Brimar 6BQ7A


 
   
  Quote: 





salvatore said:


> Since Lyr accepts pretty much all the same tubes than Aune T1, I figured there could be some interesting tube impressions and general info here (especially for the beginners, just skip the T1 specific sections):
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/633006/aune-t1-usb-tube-dac-amp-discussion-thread-see-first-post-for-faq/2010#post_9502294
> 
> If any of you guys have some useful links that I could add to the post please send them to me. Oh and thanks for this great tube rolling thread!


 
   
  thanks for that info guys - plenty of late night reading ahead
   
  When i google those tubes mentioned there seem to be  many variations of the same tube so learning which ones to buy could be a lot of trial and error I suppose
   
  Generally are specialist tube suppliers or ebay the cheapest places to buy from ?


----------



## nelamvr6

Guys:
   
  Since I tried the RTC E188CC tubes and they weren't quite my cup of tea, I'll be selling two pairs in the For Sale forum.  
   
  I'd rather they go to someone in this thread.  
   
  Look for my post in the For Sale forum soon, and if anyone here is interested, feel free to just PM me any time.


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> For the Amperex you should be looking for the orange label, made in Holland with either the PQ shield, or the orange globe logo.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1970-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-ONES-/321138597034?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac55a1caa
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-LABEL-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1974-MATCHED-PAIR-CHECKED-TEKTRONIX-/221233485082?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33828b151a
> 
> ...


 
  brilliant info  - couldnt have asked for better
   
  I suppose if you buy off established sellers with lots of +feedback then the chance of fakes will be a lot less
   
  anyway time to get the paypal going again !


----------



## guitarlp

How much should I be paying on eBay for some Mullard E88CC tubes?
   
  I found these for $199:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MATCHED-NOS-MULLARD-GOLD-PIN-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-for-DAC-Preamp-Headphone-Amp-/370831037477?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5657409425
   
  Is that too much? There's some cheaper ones to be found, but they don't look as new as these do.


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## guitarlp

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> As long as they test well and are relatively closely matched then the visual appearance isn't that important.
> 
> I wouldn't pay more than about $150 for a pair of mullards, more than that is a bit excessive I think.


 
  Thanks for the reply. Would these be worth getting then:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Mullard-E88CC-6922-6dj8-ECC88-Tubes-Gold-Pins-Shield-Logo-1960-/171037404585?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27d29fada9
   
  $120 or so with shipping. They look like they tested strong, but the printing on them is a bit different.


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## HK_sends

_*SLIGHT PAUSE IN THIS HERE LYR TUBE ROLLING THREAD...*_
   
  To say, the Statements have arrived will be arriving!  At least, I think they are the Statements...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
http://www.schiit.com/ragnarok-yggdrasil.pdf
   
EDIT: _*This is a Preliminary Information release!*_
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - _*You may now resume tube rolling!*_


----------



## Mediahound

They haven't 'arrived'. It's just a pre-announcement.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> They haven't 'arrived'. It's just a pre-announcement.


 
  Well, I said "slight".
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I know, but everyone has been wondering about them for so long.  At least now we have approximate dates (err...times of the year) to shoot for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Just don't ask for more info or the price goes up $50 each time (check the flyer...).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## TonyRS

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> _*SLIGHT PAUSE IN THIS LYR TUBE ROLLING THREAD...*_
> 
> To say, the Statements have arrived!  At least, I think they are the Statements...
> 
> ...


 
  Wow. I *literally *just bought the Bifrost-Uber 20mins ago... didn't know when the Statement would be out


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





tonyrs said:


> Wow. I *literally *just bought the Bifrost-Uber 20mins ago... didn't know when the Statement would be out


 
  Don't feel bad about it!  The new amp (Ragnarok) won't even be out until late 2013 and the DAC (Yggdrasil) won't be out until early 2014.  Things have also gotten delayed before, so I think you'll have plenty of time to enjoy the uber.  This was just a preliminary announcement.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

Frankly, I'm not all that interested, I'm pretty happy with my Lyr.
   
  But Jason hinted that a hybrid version might be coming.  Now THAT I would be interested in!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Frankly, I'm not all that interested, I'm pretty happy with my Lyr.
> 
> But Jason hinted that a hybrid version might be coming.  Now THAT I would be interested in!


 
  Really?  I missed that!  I would be interested as well as long as they use the same tube family as the Lyr.  Then I won't have to go out and get more tubes!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Seriously, I would be very interested in a hybrid.  I'm getting addicted to the tube sound...
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Mediahound

I love my Lyr but am actually thinking about going over to solid state with the statement gear.


----------



## Zuckfun

I was wondering when Telefunken would be knocked from it's current throne- thought I would have to get some of Amperex or Siemens best. Then along comes Ediswan 6922. Fuller bass, more detailed mids, an excellent, and as of now, superior tube. Highly recommended. Telefunken, you may now take your rest.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Really?  I missed that!  I would be interested as well as long as they use the same tube family as the Lyr.  Then I won't have to go out and get more tubes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Yeah, check out item number 3 in Jason's post:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/2310#post_9516515


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> I was wondering when Telefunken would be knocked from it's current throne- thought I would have to get some of Amperex or Siemens best. Then along comes Ediswan 6922. Fuller bass, more detailed mids, an excellent, and as of now, superior tube. Highly recommended. Telefunken, you may now take your rest.


 
   
   
  Interesting.  A new player...
   
  They don't seem to be all that pricey either.


----------



## Zuckfun

nelamvr6 said:


> Interesting.  A new player...
> 
> They don't seem to be all that pricey either.


 Great bass, thick and rich. Definitely one of it's strengths. And great detail. It's only weakness could be soundstage, Telefunken is more spacious sounding. Listening on HE-400, great with handling bass, no doubt. This could obviously lead me to color my review. One thing's for sure- Telefunken can't touch Ediswan's bass. Which is superior- I'll leave that to the experts who know far more than me. The Ediswan's are a very fun tube, this much I know.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

hk_sends said:


> Really?  I missed that!  I would be interested as well as long as they use the same tube family as the Lyr.  Then I won't have to go out and get more tubes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




HK, I think I read somewhere that the Statement hybrid will not use the same tube family.

My large 6DJ8 tube investment is one of the reasons I acquired the Liquid Glass. Uses these same Novals or Octals in the 6SN7 family.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> HK, I think I read somewhere that the Statement hybrid will not use the same tube family.
> 
> My large 6DJ8 tube investment is one of the reasons I acquired the Liquid Glass. Uses these same Novals or Octals in the 6SN7 family.


 
  By the time I could actually afford the statement stuff, I'm sure I will have worn out a set or two of tubes in the Lyr...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I'll enjoy it as long as I have it.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Yeah, check out item number 3 in Jason's post:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/2310#post_9516515


 
  Ahh, ok!  Thanks!


----------



## ckc527

r scott ireland said:


> HK, I think I read somewhere that the Statement hybrid will not use the same tube family.
> 
> My large 6DJ8 tube investment is one of the reasons I acquired the Liquid Glass. Uses these same Novals or Octals in the 6SN7 family.




I spoke to Jason briefly about this at the last show. He said the statement hybrid will not be using same tube as lyr.

ckc


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> I spoke to Jason briefly about this at the last show. He said the statement hybrid will not be using same tube as lyr.
> 
> ckc


 
   
   
  Well, it seems that this amp is developing as we watch.  I get the impression that nothing is cast in bronze.  I hope they change their mind.  
   
  If not, I'd have to really think hard about what to do.  I'm really happy with the sound of the Lyr, and I have a substantial investment in tubes.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Well, it seems that this amp is developing as we watch.  I get the impression that nothing is cast in bronze.  I hope they change their mind.
> 
> If not, I'd have to really think hard about what to do.  I'm really happy with the sound of the Lyr, and I have a substantial investment in tubes.


 
  Keep the Lyr. It won't suddenly stop working when the new stuff comes out or anything.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I get the impression that nothing is cast in bronze.


 
  Ronald Reagan.  I believe he is cast in bronze.
   
  Don't forget John Wayne.


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## nelamvr6

I may have to change my mind.  In the process of preparing these RTC tubes for sale, I figured I better at least play test the 2nd pair.  I started burning them in, and gave a quick test listen... I may have been too hasty.  More to follow...


----------



## Zuckfun

ilikepooters said:


> Ediswan re-branded other manufacturers tubes.
> 
> Those you have were very likely made by Brimar in their Rochester plant.


Strange how Joe reviewed the Ediswan over at Audio Asylum. Or is this actually a review for Brimar- rebranded as Ediswan. Kind of confusing. They sound great, which is what really matters anyways.


----------



## sceleratus

nelamvr6 said:


> I may have to change my mind.  In the process of preparing these RTC tubes for sale, I figured I better at least play test the 2nd pair.  I started burning them in, and gave a quick test listen... I may have been too hasty.  More to follow...




Really? Well, I'll be.
 I do seem to recall a post from you about "burn in". No. Wait. It was 6 posts!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Really? Well, I'll be.
> I do seem to recall a post from you about "burn in". No. Wait. It was 6 posts!


 
  Well, I did burn in the other pair, I gave them a good 50 hours.
   
  I can't complain about the sound from these tubes, they sound amazing!
  
  I just missed the heft and slam in the bass I got with the OGs.  The OGs definitely beat the RTCs in that department.
   
  And the tubey goodness in the mids wasn't quite there in the RTCs either.
   
  But, maybe this second pair is slightly different, maybe I'm in a different mood when I just gave them a test listen, who knows?  I'm going to give them a thorough trial, and do some A/B testing between these and the OGs.


----------



## billerb1

Which OG's are we talking about,  Nelamvr6 ?


----------



## nelamvr6

I suppose we should all avoid shorthand, it can get confusing for those joining the conversation late..
   
  OG = Orange Globes, a model of tube made by Philips in Holland, sold under the Amperex brand.
   
  You may also see references made to BBs, those would be Bugle Boys. Another Philips tube made in Holland and sold under the Amperex brand.
   
  The RTCs we're discusing were also made by Philips.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Strange how Joe reviewed the Ediswan over at Audio Asylum. Or is this actually a review for Brimar- rebranded as Ediswan. Kind of confusing.


 
   
  That there is his biggest undoing; that is, his not identifying the tubes beyond their obvious branding.


----------



## billerb1

No I was curious as to exactly which Orange Globe you had.


----------



## sceleratus




----------



## billerb1

Lol, I promise I won't fish in your fishin' hole.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> No I was curious as to exactly which Orange Globe you had.


 
  Oh, sorry, I misinterpreted.
   
  The OGs I have are O getters, circa 1968, made in Heerlen, Holland.


----------



## Junior mints

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> No I was curious as to exactly which Orange Globe you had.


 

 I believe he is using the 1968 ones. He helped me find the ones I have and couldn't resist picking them up as well!
   
  (whoops I was late to the party..)


----------



## tuna47

Love the ogs I am not as fond of the bbs IMHO no contest


----------



## Zuckfun

It's subjective, but is there a general consensus on the best Amperex tube? Not including the pinched waist, way too expensive for me. USA White Label, PQ Shield- are these considered supreme (and worth the $)?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> It's subjective, but is there a general consensus on the best Amperex tube? Not including the pinched waist, way too expensive for me. USA White Label, PQ Shield- are these considered supreme (and worth the $)?


 
   
   
  My favorite Amperex tubes:
   
  1. Orange Globes
  2. Bugle Boys
  3. USN 6922  D Getters
  4. USN-CEP 6922
   
  But just because I love them does NOT mean that there's any sort of consensus.
   
  The three tubes at the top of the list have a more "tubey" sound, meaning they're a bit more lush in the midrange, the USN-CEPs are super accurate, they remind me of the RTCs I'm testing now.


----------



## Zuckfun

nelamvr6 said:


> My favorite Amperex tubes:
> 
> 1. Orange Globes
> 2. Bugle Boys
> ...


Thanks for the input. Amperex will be the next tubes I buy, and after big disappointment with the Orange Label, I want the next Amperex tubes to be great. The learning curve I guess- and these tubes are too expensive to gamble on. Found that out the hard way. But it is still a gamble, even when supplied with quality info.

p.s. Can I get Orange Globes, not Orange Labels- Oh how big of a difference in the details.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Thanks for the input. Amperex will be the next tubes I buy, and after big disappointment with the Orange Label, I want the next Amperex tubes to be great. The learning curve I guess- and these tubes are too expensive to gamble on. Found that out the hard way. But it is still a gamble, even when supplied with quality info.
> 
> p.s. Can I get Orange Globes, not Orange Labels- Oh how big of a difference in the details.


 
  Yes, you can get Orange Globes.  I've never heard the Orange Labels, so I can't comment on the difference.
   
  Can you be more specific on the orange labels that disappointed you?  What was the problem?  Where did you buy them?


----------



## Zuckfun

nelamvr6 said:


> Yes, you can get Orange Globes.  I've never heard the Orange Labels, so I can't comment on the difference.
> 
> Can you be more specific on the orange labels that disappointed you?  What was the problem?  Where did you buy them?


 I bought them at Tube Depot, and they weren't described as Orange Label, White Label to be sure. Live and learn, so from now on it's only more reputable dealers like Brent Jessee or Upscale Audio. The tubes themselves are warm, but muddy sounding. Lacking clarity and instrumental separation. Not a tube I would recommend at all. Maybe I got a weak pair, it happens.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> I bought them at Tube Depot, and they weren't described as Orange Label, White Label to be sure. Live and learn, so from now on it's only more reputable dealers like Brent Jessee or Upscale Audio. The tubes themselves are warm, but muddy sounding. Lacking clarity and instrumental separation. Not a tube I would recommend at all. Maybe I got a weak pair, it happens.


 
   
  Well that sucks.  I hope they didn't set you back too much.
   
  None of the tubes in the list I posted should sound muddy at all, provided you get samples that are in decent shape.
   
  If you stick with the vendors you mentioned, you should be OK.  Also, Mercedesman on eBay is a good guy to deal with.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> My favorite Amperex tubes:
> 
> 1. Orange Globes
> 2. Bugle Boys
> ...


 

 Great list! You pretty much covered my favs too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  My top three Amperex for HE500:
   
  1. Bugle Boys (D-getter)
  2. USN-CEP 6922 (halo, made in 'Merica)
  3. Orange Globes (late '60s halo getter)
   
   
  As always, YMMV


----------



## nelamvr6

So, the beginnings of a consensus...


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> So, the beginnings of a consensus...


 

 You know what they say!  Great minds...don't really remember the '70's


----------



## OldSkool

OK, here's one from the "Live and Learn" file.
   
  Recently, I noticed a very faint crackling noise in the left channel while listening to my beloved '59 Bugle Boys. Crap, I must have a tube going microphonic! The crackling was intermittent, barely noticable and almost...well, rythmic at times. Weird, huhh? I switched tubes, front to back, but the noise was still in the left channel. Double crap! Hmmm.
   
  Tried a different tube pair, same result. Decided I had a bad socket saver. Swapped savers, then removed savers...same noise in left channel. Guys, I have been chasing this faint little crackling noise for THREE days! I have checked cable connections, swapped cables out, nothing solved it.
   
  Finally, earlier tonight I sat back and thought about when this noise first appeared. Well, it was three days ago, just about the time I got my....new Samsung Note2 phone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I moved phone and charger across the room and the noise is now gone.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I can't explain it, either.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> OK, here's one from the "Live and Learn" file.
> 
> Recently, I noticed a very faint crackling noise in the left channel while listening to my beloved '59 Bugle Boys. Crap, I must have a tube going microphonic! The crackling was intermittent, barely noticable and almost...well, rythmic at times. Weird, huhh? I switched tubes, front to back, but the noise was still in the left channel. Double crap! Hmmm.
> 
> ...


 
   
  At least you got it fixed!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

oldskool said:


> Great list! You pretty much covered my favs too.
> 
> My top three Amperex for HE500:
> 
> ...




I love the Amperex USN-CEP's (mine are 1965). Next to the pinched waists, these are my favorite Amperex tubes. Then PQ/White Labels, then Orange globes, then Bugle Boys.


----------



## nelamvr6

OK, these RTCs are sounding pretty sweet, i gotta admit...
   
  As I type this, I'm listening to La Villa Strangiato in 96/24 flac, from Rush's Sector 2, and man, this is amazing!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (That's the closest we have to an LCD-2 smilie...)
   
  Tomorrow, it's supposed to be rainy.  Perfect day to do some serious A/B testing with the OGs.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

oldskool said:


> OK, here's one from the "Live and Learn" file.
> 
> Recently, I noticed a very faint crackling noise in the left channel while listening to my beloved '59 Bugle Boys. Crap, I must have a tube going microphonic! The crackling was intermittent, barely noticable and almost...well, rythmic at times. Weird, huhh? I switched tubes, front to back, but the noise was still in the left channel. Double crap! Hmmm.
> 
> ...




Reminds me of the cell phone PA system interference thing, on a smaller scale.

Good to know, and glad you figured it out!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> I love the Amperex USN-CEP's (mine are 1965). Next to the pinched waists, these are my favorite Amperex tubes. Then PQ/White Labels, then Orange globes, then Bugle Boys.


 
  They were my favorite for the longest time too.  But then I heard the Orange Globes...  and I fell in love with the mids.
   
  The USN-CEPs are sweet glass, no doubt about it.  I'm keeping my 2 pair, that's for sure!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nelamvr6 said:


> OK, these RTCs are sounding pretty sweet, i gotta admit...
> 
> As I type this, I'm listening to La Villa Strangiato in 96/24 flac, from Rush's Sector 2, and man, this is amazing!
> 
> ...




'Ya gotta keep 'em! The RTC's are really nice and offer a different soundscape than the Orange Globes. Variety is nice to have


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nelamvr6 said:


> They were my favorite for the longest time too.  But then I heard the Orange Globes...  and I fell in love with the mids.
> 
> The USN-CEPs are sweet glass, no doubt about it.  I'm keeping my 2 pair, that's for sure!




Good decision! In fairness I have to say that I only listen to Classical. So I probably bias toward more detailed tubes in the highs (also why I like the HD800's). I can see where the richer mids and bass might be more desirable for other genres.


----------



## NightFlight

Here's a deal if you like the S&H sound. Great match for the HD800s/Lyr and a warm DAC.
  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Quartet-of-SIEMENS-E88CC-1963-all-grey-plates-/121089221749?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c317ae475
   
  I'd grab 'em, but I'm currently exploring cheaper alternatives.
   
  Another guy is asking $700 for one pair. IMHO, thats bit looney, but it gives you an idea of the possible value.


----------



## Junior mints

nightflight said:


> Here's a deal if you like the S&H sound. Great match for the HD800s/Lyr and a warm DAC.
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Quartet-of-SIEMENS-E88CC-1963-all-grey-plates-/121089221749?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c317ae475
> 
> I'd grab 'em, but I'm currently exploring cheaper alternatives.
> ...



I really shouldn't.. but.. Hmm.


----------



## tuna47

Is the orange globe dimpled getter A frame a good tube
Thanks


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Is the orange globe dimpled getter A frame a good tube
> Thanks


 
   
  I like pre 1969 a lot more.
   
  They will have a halo getter.
  They are nearly the same price.  Check mercedesman on eBay.
   
  The 68's are $80
  These are the valves "nelamvr6" loves.
  (many more too)
   
  70's are $60


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I like pre 1969 a lot more.
> 
> They will have a halo getter.
> They are nearly the same price.  Check mercedesman on eBay.
> ...


 
   
   
  I concur.
   
  I haven't heard the a frame tubes, but I've read a bit about them.  They're probably pretty good tubes, but I know the '68 /  '69 O getters are awesome.  
   
  And Mercedesman is great to deal with.
   
  A pair of '68 O getters for $160, and you may never buy another pair of tubes.  
   
  (Of course, I always have to get a safety pair of tubes I like, but that's just my specific pathology...)


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nightflight said:


> Here's a deal if you like the S&H sound. Great match for the HD800s/Lyr and a warm DAC.
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Quartet-of-SIEMENS-E88CC-1963-all-grey-plates-/121089221749?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c317ae475
> 
> I'd grab 'em, but I'm currently exploring cheaper alternatives.
> ...




That's a good price, but I've already got enough S&H inventory.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tuna47 said:


> Is the orange globe dimpled getter A frame a good tube
> Thanks




The A frames are very nice tubes, but I would follow the above advice from Sceleratus and nelamvr6.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Is the orange globe dimpled getter A frame a good tube
> Thanks


 
  Scott's right.
  Nothing at all wrong with Orange Globe "A" frames.  There have been many positive posts.
  In fact,  I don't recall anyone posting that they didn't like Any Orange Globes. 60's , 70's whatever.
   
  IMO one of the best values in vintage glass.
   
  But skip the movies this weekend and spend the extra dough on the 60's
   
  Last disclaimer.  There is a lot to the pairing of glass and cans.
  Scott has made several posts comparing various tube / amp / headphone mixes.  Some are surprising.
  I've never listened to HE-500. One can never be sure.


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## nelamvr6

Interesting, I thought Amperex was a Philips brand, never heard of Siemens tubes being sold under the Amperex brand.
   
  According to the Wikipedia article:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amperex_Electronic , Amperex was an independent company that was purchased by Philips.
   
  I wonder what the pre-Philips acquisition tubes were like...
   
  Mercedesman's description of those Amperex makes me really curious.  Now I'm eager to hear your impressions.


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Got some more tubes on the way.
> 
> First pair is Tesla E88CC gold pins made in Czechoslovakia.
> 
> ...


 
  Our friends from TubeMonger had some input on your second tube link:
   
  "this is a tesla ecc88 tube. always pay attention to the bottle and internals. labels mean nothing.
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321126601279?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
  
 you can get originals for less. "
  
 I'm just the messenger...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Our friends from TubeMonger had some input on your second tube link:
> 
> "this is a tesla ecc88 tube. always pay attention to the bottle and internals. labels mean nothing.


 
   
  The shape of the bottle is indeed typical for Tesla.


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## sceleratus

That's what makes this hobby so interesting !
  Part science.
  Part subjectivity 
  Part "Vegas Baby"


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Interesting, I thought Amperex was a Philips brand, never heard of Siemens tubes being sold under the Amperex brand.


 
   
  Somehow Philips was in cahoots with Siemens as well. Philips, for example, didn't make E83CCs but sold E83CCs made by Siemens: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NOS-PHILIPS-SQ%20-E83CC-12AX7-ECC83-PREAMP-TUBE-AUDIO-VALVES-NEW-RARE-/180986421398
   
  Anyway, they all sourced tubes from other manufacturers at times. No company made all the types after all.
   


> According to the Wikipedia article:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amperex_Electronic , Amperex was an independent company that was purchased by Philips.
> 
> I wonder what the pre-Philips acquisition tubes were like...


 
   
  Amperex was a maker of transmitting tubes. See https://www.tubeworld.com/845.htm#845amp for an example.


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## christophhh

I originally had the Neuhaus Laboratories T-2 Amplifier with HE-500's.
   
  I just got the Lyr.

 It BLOWS it away. I mean, no contest. Absolutely brilliant sounding. Blowing me away.


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## NightFlight

ilikepooters said:


> Buy a pair, they're cheap enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...


got mine but gotta go.


----------



## HK_sends

Hey guys, for the record, I'm not actually following the thread today due to being under the weather.  However, I am passing this information on from TubeMonger because they are genuinely trying to be helpful to us.  Here you go:
   
  From TubeMonger:
   
  "_Did not mean to be curt. Shall write list of tips to id tubes for the board later today._
  
_Mercedesman is an honest and upfront seller. He offers great values in desirable tubes. It is likely he was duped in this instance. He may not be familiar with the nuances of the various fakes coming out of former Czechoslovakia. Good news is that tube in question are genuine Tesla ECC88 tubes._"
   
Hope this helps...
   
Cheers!




  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Somehow Philips was in cahoots with Siemens as well. Philips, for example, didn't make E83CCs but sold E83CCs made by Siemens: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NOS-PHILIPS-SQ%20-E83CC-12AX7-ECC83-PREAMP-TUBE-AUDIO-VALVES-NEW-RARE-/180986421398
> 
> Anyway, they all sourced tubes from other manufacturers at times. No company made all the types after all.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Very interesting.  Thanks!


----------



## RyuGTX

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Hey guys, for the record, I'm not actually following the thread today due to being under the weather.  However, I am passing this information on from TubeMonger because they are genuinely trying to be helpful to us.  Here you go:
> 
> From TubeMonger:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hope you are able to get a lot of rest. Get well soon!
   
  Maybe since I am new at this and I don't understand what "for the board" means... It is so nice of them to help out and create a helpful guide. Would love to get a link once it is up.


----------



## NightFlight

Voshkod 6N23P! Great tube! Great initial impressions. I'll break in a pair and compare to S&H CCA. If these open up the way I hope they do... The Siemens might seem very frivolous indeed.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ryugtx said:


> Hope you are able to get a lot of rest. Get well soon!
> 
> Maybe since I am new at this and I don't understand what "for the board" means... It is so nice of them to help out and create a helpful guide. Would love to get a link once it is up.


 
  Thanks for the well-wishes!  I'll post it as soon as I get it from them.  "For the board" is a reference to the old bulletin board system (bbs) that was used before the internet and forums.
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## christophhh

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Now you need to find some nice expensive tubes to put in it


 
  For sure 

 I wonder what I should try first.. How long does it normally take to burn tubes in?

 What I do notice is that the treble is very high on the Lyr. I get listening fatigue if I turn it loud!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Voshkod 6N23P! Great tube! Great initial impressions. I'll break in a pair and compare to S&H CCA. If these open up the way I hope they do... The Siemens might seem very frivolous indeed.


 

 Yes!  This is what I have been saying...tremendous tube!  Just did an extensive comparison between the Philips-Holland E88CC SQ Halo getters (1960s date code), the Amperex US PQ 6922s and the 6n23p Voshkod Rockets 1979, 1980, 1983,etc...date codes.
   
  The 1979 and 1980 Voshkod rockets sound better then the Amperex by a mile and even beat the SQs in most respects.
   
  One note:  I have collected a large stash of these V-Rockets and I noticed their seems to be two versions across date codes.  One with a long gray shield and one with a long shiny shield - kinda'  like the S&H CCa.  Except the sound on the V-Rockets with the shiny shields sound way better!  Much more open, with a more extended and detailed high end (unlike the the S&H CCa where the gray shield are superior).  I have posted a picture, the shiny shield is the 3rd from the left and the gray the last to the right.
   
  Try them both, but don't judge them until you have heard the shiny version.   Best sounding of the date codes are the 1979 and 1980s so far.
   
  V-Rocket vs the Amperex - way more detailed, just as musical, wider deeper sound stage, way more dynamic and open, deeper tighter bass.
   
  V-Rocket vs the Philips- Holland SQ Halos - the V-Rocket again excel, the SQ are a tad more liquid in the mid, but the V-Rocket beat them in dynamics, openness, with a wider and deeper sound stage.  Both tubes are very musical, but the V-Rockets have a deeper level of detail.  The detail is so great that I could hear things like light cymbal taps and guitar plucks that I had never heard before, even on recordings that I've heard hundreds of times!  This level of detail adds to the ambient clues that provide a very realistic 3-d sound staging.  The musicians are holographic vs stacked flat cardboard cut-outs.
   
  The 1979, 1980 vs later 1980s and 1990s V-Rockets.
   
  They are all very close, but the earliest date codes are the best - with a more dynamic presentation and greater detail.  I'm arranging to acquire some 1960s date codes so we'll see how they sound.
   
  Awesome tube!  especially for the money!


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## christophhh

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> 24 hours solid of pink noise is usually enough to open them up (soundstage) and remove the harshness in the treble


 
  What should I do exactly?


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





christophhh said:


> What should I do exactly?


 
   
  Basically what he's saying is, it isn't your LYR that has the slightly harsh treble, it's just that the tubes probably need burning in a little.
   
  You can get hold of a pink noise wav file and play it constantly through your LYR for the next 24 hours until the tubes settle in a bit. I will try and dig one out a bit later if you can't get hold of one


----------



## christophhh

Nice! Yeah, so what, just unplug headphones, and let a pink noise wave file loop for 24 hours?
   
  Thanks man, yeah if you hooked me up with a link that would be wicked! Cheers!


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## christophhh

I will just plug in some iphone headphones or something!


----------



## CraftyClown

Hmm, why is this thread not allowing me to add an attachment??


----------



## Sanlitun

Any thoughts on these Brimar's and how they sound? They are marked as actually being made in England.
   
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NOS-NIB-Pair-Brimar-6BQ7A-Box-Plate-Vacuum-Tubes-/161011320189?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item257d05c57d


----------



## billerb1

Here's some pink noise for ya...
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w8MxzLMvsM&list=FL0lcnvIzoOxM6uQc-0VUhJg&feature=mh_lolz


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





christophhh said:


> I will just plug in some iphone headphones or something!


 
  The Lyr will smoke iPhone earbuds


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## christophhh

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> The Lyr will smoke iPhone earbuds


 
  Ah. I don't have any other headphones besides HE-500's - why do headphones have to be plugged in? Is there any other way I can burn the tubes in without using the HE-500's?


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## christophhh

Awesome. Will do that, thanks for the info. 

 Whats the typical time frame on tube burn-in, how long should I leave it going for?


----------



## claud W

Back to Amperex PQs that make the Mad Dogs sound sooooooo seductive.


----------



## NightFlight

rb2013 said:


> Yes!  This is what I have been saying...tremendous tube!  Just did an extensive comparison between the Philips-Holland E88CC SQ Halo getters (1960s date code), the Amperex US PQ 6922s and the 6n23p Voshkod Rockets 1979, 1980, 1983,etc...date codes.
> 
> The 1979 and 1980 Voshkod rockets sound better then the Amperex by a mile and even beat the SQs in most respects.
> 
> ...





Yes, my hunting them out and now my initial statement of early impressions was basicly a nod to your posts. I've been breaking in for 20hrs or so. Last listen was around 8hrs in. They seemed to have more space without loss of presence. A little more punch and boom in the mid bass.

Got 4 of them for 5$ each. Value is off the scale.


----------



## sceleratus

ilikepooters said:


> Basically your headphones will act as a load, current won't flow without a load, so nothing will be running through the tubes without your headphones being plugged in.
> 
> Your apple earbuds will be fine, just be very careful with the volume pot.
> 
> Better yet, turn the volume down in whatever player you use to play the pink noise sample, then you can turn up your Lyr without blowing the earbuds.



However the load will be negligible.


----------



## NightFlight

ilikepooters said:


> Headphones plugged in, preferably a cheap pair, don't want to wear out expensive ones unnecessarily.





I'm doing my Voshkod burn in right now without a load. I don't, think it matters due to the way the tubes are coupled to the output,as they run flat out, just the input signal is pot attenuated.

My brother grabbed a single ended 1/4 jack and soldered a couple 50 ohm resistors to the ground point. That was used to break in his modded Asguard (which nearly outperformed my Lyr!) Don't quote me on those resistor values,I'm not 100% on that.


----------



## NightFlight

Hey, I lucked out, got the silver shield voskods, dated 83. frolia sold them to me. She has some of the best tubes...


----------



## NightFlight

sceleratus said:


> The Lyr will smoke iPhone earbuds





I made some jump like Mexican jumping beans when isolating a bad tube. They survived... dammit.


----------



## NightFlight

christophhh said:


> Ah. I don't have any other headphones besides HE-500's - why do headphones have to be plugged in? Is there any other way I can burn the tubes in without using the HE-500's?





Go to the dollar store. But for god's sake man.. whatever you do, don't listen to them!


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





christophhh said:


> For sure
> 
> I wonder what I should try first.. How long does it normally take to burn tubes in?
> 
> What I do notice is that the treble is very high on the Lyr. I get listening fatigue if I turn it loud!


 
   
   
  I use the HE-500's and my setup is certainly not bright. I've actually had to work at getting the treble where I want it. 
   
  Which tubes and which cables are you using?


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## CraftyClown

Must.... Buy..... More..... Tuuuuuuuuuuuuubes!!!!!


----------



## john57

ilikepooters
   
Looks like the getter disk on one of the Voskhod tubes is bend at an angle to form the silver coating at the top of the tube. It should not have any impact to the sound.


----------



## christophhh

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> I use the HE-500's and my setup is certainly not bright. I've actually had to work at getting the treble where I want it.
> 
> Which tubes and which cables are you using?


 
  I'm using the PYST RCA cables from Schiit. And lifatec Fiber Opitc Glass Cable. 

 GE 6BZ7/6BQ7A Tubes


----------



## toschek

Picked these guys up recently.  These are my endgame tubes, so natural and clean.  The 1958 Amperex Bugle Boy D-Getter (small bugler) are legendary and I got the pair for $99.  Pegged good on my tester too, so cross my fingers they will last a while.   If you can find these anywhere, definitely buy.  I'd pay 2 or 3 times what I paid for a backup set.


----------



## TonyRS

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Picked these guys up recently.  These are my endgame tubes, so natural and clean.  The 1958 Amperex Bugle Boy D-Getter (small bugler) are legendary and I got the pair for $99.  Pegged good on my tester too, so cross my fingers they will last a while.   If you can find these anywhere, definitely buy.  I'd pay 2 or 3 times what I paid for a backup set.


 
  Gorgeous. Where did you get them?


----------



## toschek

Got them off ebay, I had a google alert going for about 4 months though!


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Picked these guys up recently.  These are my endgame tubes, so natural and clean.  The 1958 Amperex Bugle Boy D-Getter (small bugler) are legendary and I got the pair for $99.  Pegged good on my tester too, so cross my fingers they will last a while.   If you can find these anywhere, definitely buy.  I'd pay 2 or 3 times what I paid for a backup set.


 
   
  Mercedesman has a set:  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-TINY-MAN-1958-D-GETTER-MATCHED-PAIR-8I-/221228395651?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33823d6c83


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Mercedesman has a set:  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-TINY-MAN-1958-D-GETTER-MATCHED-PAIR-8I-/221228395651?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33823d6c83


 
  not any more.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> not any more.


 
   
  Nice. Please let us know how it goes.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Nice. Please let us know how it goes.


 
  when tos talks, I listen... "legendary"
  tiny bugler, 58', D, and from mercedesman... done
  many thanks San


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Yes!  This is what I have been saying...tremendous tube!  Just did an extensive comparison between the Philips-Holland E88CC SQ Halo getters (1960s date code), the Amperex US PQ 6922s and the 6n23p Voshkod Rockets 1979, 1980, 1983,etc...date codes.
> 
> The 1979 and 1980 Voshkod rockets sound better then the Amperex by a mile and even beat the SQs in most respects.
> 
> ...


 
  rb2013, your post did it for me. I was very happy with the Amperex but one read of your post and I just ordered 5 of the V-Rockets circa 1980 !


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I've just bought a Tube Imp tube tester: http://www.britishaudio.co.uk/tubeimp.html
> 
> and i've bought 7 lots of this guys Voskhod 6N23P's http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261226237652?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> ...


 

 Lol, I am thinking of grabbing a lot just yesterday. Now you........


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> rb2013, your post did it for me. I was very happy with the Amperex but one read of your post and I just ordered 5 of the V-Rockets circa 1980 !


 

 Good luck, I hope you like them.  I'm looking forward to reading your impressions. 
   
  Anyone looking for a matched pr of Philips Holland SQ Halo getters (1960's date codes)?  They test perfect on my Sencor TC-162 tester - no shorts, no gas, like new output.  I'll post test results later - but like new.
   
  I'll put them up on Audiogon (RB99)  later this week when I get time.
   
  Just ordered some 1975 matched V-Rockets!  Looking for the elusive late 1960's version.  So far I have acquired close to 30 of these and it's amazing how uniformly matched they test - across tubes and across sections.  Although I have gotten a few that failed the gas emission test (this can blow resistors in some amps).  The Sencor tester excels at detecting gassy tubes - even better then the legendary Hickok.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Yes, my hunting them out and now my initial statement of early impressions was basically a nod to your posts. I've been breaking in for 20hrs or so. Last listen was around 8hrs in. They seemed to have more space without loss of presence. A little more punch and boom in the mid bass.
> 
> Got 4 of them for 5$ each. Value is off the scale.


 

 Great to hear!  I know everyone's upstream is a bit different, and listening tastes, so I'm really glad to hear you like them as well.  When I first started buying these many yrs ago, they were so hard to find.  I first read about them on Audio Asylum, and it was like - someone knows a guy who knows a guy who can get them.  Some local (Seattle) tube sellers were getting $70/pr for mismatched prs.
   
  If you go to Audiogon and see my feedback (RB99) you can see I'm an insane audio nut - constantly trading equipment, buying tweeks, trying to improve my system.  These Rockets have completely satisfied me for years!  Now that I have explored them in more detail (silver vs gray shield, older date codes, etc...) I have even better sounding ones!  For peanuts!! 
   
  We have great amps like the Lyr and Bada SE 3.3 - cheap.   Awesome headphones like HD800, HE600, LCD3 - that perform like $10K speakers.    We live in glorious audio times!
   
  I sold all my S&H CCa for more then I pd for them.   In many years of long daily use (all day as background in my office) and night time in my listening room system - never had one fail!  Anyone who has used 6dj8s, 6922, E88CC, CCa for an extended period of time knows they can fail - and will fail.  It killed me when a beautiful gray shield S&H CCa died on me - that killed the matched pr.  For that kind of money I could get a really nice interconnect or power cord that would last forever.  Now the prices are so high, you can buy a Lyr - or even a Woo amp!  Crazy.


----------



## g33klunch

"Endgame tubes" - In this game there is no such thing as an endgame!  Very nice tubes!


----------



## OldSkool

sceleratus said:


> when tos talks, I listen... "legendary"
> tiny bugler, 58', D, and from mercedesman... done
> many thanks San




Too bad you missed out on those '59 d-getter bugle boys that HK was selling a couple of weeks ago.

Somebody bought all 4 pair


----------



## erikfreedom

mercedesman has a lot of glass at very good prices. I think I will try to find a pair of orange globes that a lot of people here seems to like a lot. there is so much tube variety in the 6922, e88cc family it is mind boggling.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Too bad you missed out on those '59 d-getter bugle boys that HK was selling a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> Somebody bought all 4 pair


 
I was waffling on the fence and passed and on those.
Then, Sanlitun dangled these in front of me, and I bit like a bass on a rubber crawler.
If I don't like the sound signature, I'm sure I can sell them.
   
A little update on my 300B amp:
Tom has modified it to support ECC88's and variants. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I guess that means I'm rolling again.... If the amp sounds good.
I hope to have the replacement  for the defective 300B's from Brent this week.


----------



## Zuckfun

So much praise for Bugle Boys, hopefully I can get a pair of these one day. Bugle Boys vs. Orange Globes vs. USN-CEP's... Decisions, decisions


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Any particular reason why?
> 
> Edit: Maybe it has something to do with defective 300B's...


 
  I'd rather not say and I regret putting that in my post.
  Nothing to do with the defect per say.


----------



## nelamvr6

OK, I've decided I'm definitely NOT selling these RTCs.  I'm still waffling about whether I like these better than the Orange Globes, it's really a tough decision, and A/B testing is not easy.  I wish I had two Lyrs so I could switch more easily.
   
  For one thing, the OGs have a bit more gain, so volume matching is a challenge. I also try to let the tubes cool a little before rolling, and that slows things down.
   
  These tubes, the RTC E188CC and the Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8, are so hard to decide between.
   
  But I will make a decision soon.
   
  But at any rate, I've decided that I want to keep both tubes anyway, they're both so good!


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## NightFlight

Impresssion: Siemens Cca Grey plate vs Voshkod '83 silver

 The Voskod is a fantastic bargain. Can be currently be found on ebay for as little as $5 - 7 each whereas the Siemens ranges from around $120 - $250each.. or more. Sonically they are both very revealing with similar soundstage. The Voshkod in fact might actually have a slightly taller stage.


 A) Voshkod
 Coming from a Siemens love relationship I was initially very very impressed by the Voshkod.  It presents with an immediacy and space that immediately entices you to close your eyes, lean back and absorb. Slightly more punchy in the mid bass region, but otherwise just as tight and airy as any tube I've heard to date. Placement and 3 dimensions are evident in spades.  Some recordings can catch you off guard and get  you to looking around for the source of the exterior noise you thought were external to the headphone.  

 B) Siemens CCa
 Reality sets in and all the detail you didn't believe possible comes out. Not quite as punchy mid bass, but tighter. Highs are lighter and squarely placed as thought by laser beam. There's no need to concentrate on where things are, they just are. The detail is thus far in my experience, unparalleled.  Perhaps too analytical for some. But I don't quite understand that limit yet. I haven't found it.

 Summary
 The Voshkod is no slouch. I've only given them 50hrs break in and they might yet open further. They are still a bargain and they do very well. If your just looking for some really good tunes on the cheap, these are the ones to get. However for me, audiophillia is about that last %1.  You "buy the ticket, take the ride".  The difference between these two tubes can be summed up as a difference one would perceive between the $20 interconnects and $5000 interconnects. There IS a difference and for some people it will slap them in the face, but not others. People with an untrained ear mostly would not notice any difference. Those that did would not value it.  

 Will I be selling my CCa tubes? I had really really hoped to. I really did.  But I'll have to quote the NRA.
   
_"You can have my Siemens when you take them from my cold, dead hands".  _
   
  There is a reason they are as expensive as they are. They are rare is the primary reason, but the other is because they are awesome.  It will be a very sad day when they die and their all gone.

 In the end, the Voshkod are cheap. Give them a try. What's the worst that could happen?


----------



## Zuckfun

nelamvr6 said:


> OK, I've decided I'm definitely NOT selling these RTCs.  I'm still waffling about whether I like these better than the Orange Globes, it's really a tough decision, and A/B testing is not easy.  I wish I had two Lyrs so I could switch more easily.


 This is what makes evaluating tubes difficult- After waiting for the tubes to cool down, then switching them, it's tough to tell (at least for me). Probably most importantly, my ears aren't great evaluators anyways. If it was possible to listen to a song and flip a switch and listen to the same song with different tubes, maybe I'd have a chance.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Hey Guys,

Are these the "better - silver" Voshkods:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321135486914&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160

??

I hope so, I ordered 2 pair.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> OK, I've decided I'm definitely NOT selling these RTCs.  I'm still waffling about whether I like these better than the Orange Globes, it's really a tough decision, and A/B testing is not easy.  I wish I had two Lyrs so I could switch more easily.
> 
> For one thing, the OGs have a bit more gain, so volume matching is a challenge. I also try to let the tubes cool a little before rolling, and that slows things down.
> 
> ...


 
  Let me make it easy for ya nel.
   
  They are called "La Radiotechnique"
  Ya gotta own something audio with a name like that.
  Glad you are keeping them.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

zuckfun said:


> This is what makes evaluating tubes difficult- After waiting for the tubes to cool down, then switching them, it's tough to tell (at least for me). Probably most importantly, my ears aren't great evaluators anyways. If it was possible to listen to a song and flip a switch and listen to the same song with different tubes, maybe I'd have a chance.




+1. You want to let the tubes cool, so I too find A/B comparisons difficult.


----------



## sceleratus

Thought I'd post an FYI for anyone in the Los Angeles area.
There will be a "Regional Meet" Sat. July 20th at the Woodland Hills Marriott  (San Fernando Valley)
   
There are a lot of folks registered.
Schiit, Audeze, and other manufacturers will be there.


----------



## GrindingThud

How do these compare to the Voskhod 6N1P-EV? 



ilikepooters said:


> Voskhod 6N23P's are the flavour of the week at the moment.
> 
> I have orange label Amperex PQ 6DJ8 made in Holland in the 70's so i'm guessing these are pretty much a glorified orange globe, and i think the Voskhod 6N23P's blow them out of the water, the Russians just sound so much more open while having a similar tone.
> 
> Deffinitely worth having a look if you get the chance, especially at how peanuts the prices are for Russian glass.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> This is what makes evaluating tubes difficult- After waiting for the tubes to cool down, then switching them, it's tough to tell (at least for me). Probably most importantly, my ears aren't great evaluators anyways. If it was possible to listen to a song and flip a switch and listen to the same song with different tubes, maybe I'd have a chance.


 
   
  I think it's high time we ask Jason Stoddard for a "Special Head-Fi Edition" Lyr.  It would feature two sets of tube sockets that can always supply heater current to both banks and a soft A/B switch to select the tubes in bank A or B.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Well, we  can always dream.


----------



## HK_sends

_Hey everybody!_
   
_As promised, here are the Tube ID Tips from the fine folks at TubeMonger:_
   
"If you have handled enough tubes over time, you should be able to id a tube manufacturer and even vintage by just looking at the picture. Glass bottle, curvature on the top, internal construction, pins and glass interface give a lot of cues.

If you don't physical access to a lot of tubes, spend time online examining pictures. For example, search for Amperex or Siemens or Telefunken and see various tube types made by a single maker. You will start to recognize the bottle and internal construction. Over time, you should be able to id mis-identified, mislabeled and even recently printed fakes. Good places to start:
- ebay
- various tube sellers that have pictures
- www.tubemongerlib.com
- http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv2492.html
- http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0011.htm

Some tips:
- Saucer shaped getter - Russian

- Amperex/Philips tubes with different labels are identical if the revision and date codes are similar. Green, Orange, Globe or Bugle Boy labels don't mean much.

- Western European made E88CC/6922/CV2492/2493/E88CC-01 and E188CC/7308/CV4108/CV4110 always have gold plated pins - exception CV4109 flying leads.

- SQ or PQ - these are select special quality tubes culled from the regular production.

- Valvo rote-red or blue/yellow etc (hamburg made or sourced from Philips/Holland) - http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubes&m=133875

- Tubes with Military markings e.g. UN-CEP, CV2492, CV2493, CV4108, CV4110, E88CC_01, CV4109 etc - have passed specific military qualification for that tube type. For example - http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Amperex+Philips+6922+1964-65+Halo+Getter+USN-CEP+Label+-+USA.jpg.html

- Instrumentation grade tubes made for Beckman, HP or Tektronix etc. e.g. http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6DJ8/Mullard+ECC88+6DJ8+1976+A-Frame+Dimple+Disc+Getter+Orange+Globe+Amperex+Label+Tektronix+Select+-+Blackburn+Gt_+Britain.jpg.html

- Late 1950s onwards - Philips/Mullard and tubes from associated Philips factories worldwide always have etched date codes on side of the glass. Codes may be faint or hard to see. Good light and magnifying glass helps. Notive VR5 *4x in the following picture. :http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Amperex+Philips+7308+1964+Halo+Getter+HP+Label+VR5+Star4I+-+USA+.jpg.html. VR stands for tube type E188CC/7308 and 5 stands for 5th revision. * is for Amperex Armonk USA plant.

- early to mid 1950s Philips/Mullard and tubes from associated Philips factories worldwide may have date codes etched at the bottom between pins. Example: http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Amperex+Philips+E88CC+6922+-+1956+Pinched+Waist+Square+Getter+Heerlen+Holland+Prod+Mullard+Old+Shield+Label.jpg.html

- dimple disk getter - Philips/Mullard and tubes from associated Philips factories worldwide except USA

- 1950s-1960s Siemens Munich Plant tubes have date codes etched in glass. From 1970s codes were embossed on a metal chad attached to the getter posts or plate supports.

- Tungsram Hungarian tubes have metal tag with 2 digit embossed code attached to getter posts or plate supports.

- For West German tubes in particular - Falcon or Eagle logo means tube have passed Bundeswehr military qualification e.g. http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/EF86/Telefunken+PCC88+1968+Bundeswehr+Falcon+Logo+Diamond+Bottom+-+Western+Germany.jpg.html. Watch out for fake  falcon/eagle logo on recently printed tubes of E. European origin (exception - Tungsram tubes with Siemens logo with falcon/eagle are OK).


Shall add more to the above list in future.


Tubemonger
www.tubemonger.com

For your tube ID Questions
www.tubemongerlib.com"
   
_Hope this helps..._
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Voskhod 6N23P's are the flavour of the week at the moment.
> 
> I have orange label Amperex PQ 6DJ8 made in Holland in the 70's so i'm guessing these are pretty much a glorified orange globe, and i think the Voskhod 6N23P's blow them out of the water, the Russians just sound so much more open while having a similar tone.
> 
> Deffinitely worth having a look if you get the chance, especially at how peanuts the prices are for Russian glass.


 
   
   
  I'm not sure it's ever safe to assume too much with regard to the relationship between tubes within a manufacturer's line.  
   
  The Orange Globes are highly regarded almost universally, while the Orange Labels, to the best of my knowledge, are not as universally lauded.
   
  NB:  I have only heard one pair of the Orange Labels, so I'm by no means an expert, but I wasn't knocked out.
   
  So I wouldn't assume that the Orange Labels are a "glorified orange globe".


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Thought I'd post an FYI for anyone in the Los Angeles area.
> There will be a "Regional Meet" Sat. July 20th at the Woodland Hills Marriott  (San Fernando Valley)
> 
> There are a lot of folks registered.
> Schiit, Audeze, and other manufacturers will be there.


 
  That should be awesome!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





bsn said:


> I think it's high time we ask Jason Stoddard for a "Special Head-Fi Edition" Lyr.  It would feature two sets of tube sockets that can always supply heater current to both banks and a soft A/B switch to select the tubes in bank A or B.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That would be worth every penny!


----------



## Zuckfun

I haven't heard Orange Globes, but my experience with Orange Labels was not great. For what it's worth, Joe on Audio Asylum described the Orange Globe as a killer tube, and he described the Orange Label as a bit disappointing.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Are these the "better - silver" Voshkods:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Curious about this myself. What about the ones listed as "Silver Grid"?
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-SILVER-GRID-NOS-4-pc-/261202810499?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd0e69683


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> _As promised, here are the Tube ID Tips from the fine folks at TubeMonger:_
> 
> Amperex Armonk USA plant.


 
   
  Sure about that? I can't find any evidence of a plant in Armonk. Rather, Hicksville, L.I., N.Y.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> It's hard to tell from that picture, shields are hardly visible, but from what little bit i can see i would say yes, looks a bit silvery rather than grey.
> 
> 
> I've not tried the 6N1P-EV, but if they're the same sonically as the standard Voskhod 6N1P, then i would say the 6N23P Voskhods have a more lush midrange and a massive soundstage.
> ...


 
   
  Perhaps, but I've never heard of ANY Orange Label that was considered to even be as good as the Orange Globes, let alone to be "glorified" Orange Globes.
   
  For some reason, every so often, the planets all aligned and certain models of tubes had magic that other tubes didn't.
   
  This happened with tubes like certain models of Bugle Boys, Orange Globes, Pinched Waist 6922, Stuttgart Lorenz, Siemens CCa, and a few other tubes.
   
  Even the guys who made tubes weren't sure why this happened sometimes and not other times.  I'm sure they had some inkling, but if they knew exactly how to make tubes with the magic they'd do it every time. 
   
  If you think the Orange Labels you've heard sound better than Orange Globes, I'm not in any position to argue, I've heard more Orange Globes than I've heard Orange Labels.   And it would probably be a good idea for you to hang on to those tubes.
   
  But Orange Labels aren't generally considered to be "glorified Orange Globes".


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Curious about this myself. What about the ones listed as "Silver Grid"?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-SILVER-GRID-NOS-4-pc-/261202810499?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd0e69683


 

 Check out my prior posts - I have a picture of the gray shield side by side to the silver shield.  Rather then a "grid" it kind of looks like a plate that runs up to hold the inverted flying saucer getter.


----------



## HK_sends

oskari said:


> Sure about that? I can't find any evidence of a plant in Armonk. Rather, Hicksville, L.I., N.Y.



 
 I can't speak to that. Unfortunately, I'm just the messenger.  Cheers! -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

hk_sends said:


> I can't speak to that. Unfortunately, I'm just the messenger.  Cheers!-HK sends



 Great, my blasted post editor is Tango Uniform!


----------



## ilikepooters

removed


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Impresssion: Siemens Cca Grey plate vs Voshkod '83 silver
> 
> The Voskod is a fantastic bargain. Can be currently be found on ebay for as little as $5 - 7 each whereas the Siemens ranges from around $120 - $250each.. or more. Sonically they are both very revealing with similar soundstage. The Voshkod in fact might actually have a slightly taller stage.
> 
> ...


 

 Good review!  Thanks! 
   
  When I originally bought the Voshkods, I did a very long evaluation vs my Siemens CCa collection.
   
  I agree with your review  of the S&H Gray shields vs the Voshkods, they are marginally better.  The later date code S&H silver shields could not hold a candle to either.   For me the cost difference was not worth it - keep in mind, I'm running 3 prs.  A pr in the Lyr and a pr each in my amps - so the cost for 3 prs is crazy.
  The fact the $10 Voshkods could even compete is amazing.
   
   
  You have to weigh how the money difference could buy you a better: DAC/transport, improve your Music server, better cables, better headphone, etc...
   
  For me it's all about the best sound, overall, for the money.  Each part of the audio chain is important.
   
  If I only had unlimited funds - there would 'Pinch Waists' in all my equipment...but then again I'd probably have a Woo WES/Stax SR-009 or Senn Orpheus.
   
  Enjoy your CCa!  At least you have the V-Rockets as back-up.
   
  I have some 1975 silver V-Rockets coming.  I'll report how they sound vs the 1979s I have, which are better then the 1980s.  I'm also sending a few prs to a friend for his special Cryo tube treatment.  In the past this has improved new issue tubes by a decent margin.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Grid and shield are Different
> 
> There are some 6N1P tubes which have a gold grid as can be seen below, basically it's just gold particles sprinkled on.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  Thanks for the clarification on the grid.   Well in my collection, there are some with the gray shield and that have the grid - one side silver one side gray, these were in my 1979 batch.  In my later date codes 1980s the gray shield had a grid gray on both sides!
   
  When I did my listening test it was between the early 1980s and later 1980s and 1990s date codes.  I compared based on the 'shields', not grids. In all cases the silver  'shields' were best. The 1979 Silver shields are the best sounding so far, with 1975s on their way.
   
  I will have to go through the rest of my growing collection.
   
   
  1979 Silver shield vs 1979 Gray shield

   
   
  The other side of the same tubes - on this side both have silver grids!

   
   
  Same 1979 tubes - hard to see with the print but one side of the grid is gray (on the gray shield version), this side of the grid is silver on the silver shield.

   
   
  I would be careful buying based on the grid, as there appears to be different variations on the gray shield versions.  You can be fooled by a picture of only one side.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I can't speak to that. Unfortunately, I'm just the messenger. Cheers!-HK sends


 
   
  Hoping that the tubemongers might see the question...


----------



## rb2013

Just bought some very interesting tubes on E-bay:
   
  These are 1967 OTK Reflectors -  but with plates structures very similar to the Voshkods AND the inverted flying saucer getters!  Matched 1967 date codes!!
   

   

   
   
  The Reflectors I have in my collection now (1977, 1983), are just OK sounding.  I'm hoping these sound more like the V-Rockets.  Note the completely different plates and getters from the later Reflectors.  Also, the dimpled getter stem, which is different then the one piece stem/shield on the Voshkods.
   
  I'll be curious to hear how the 1967 "flying saucer" Reflectors sound vs the Voshkods
   
  1977 6n23-EB OTK Reflector and 1983 6n23-EB OTK Reflector


----------



## sceleratus

Gonna go out on a limb.....
  That getter design didn't appear until after 1970 maybe 1980


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> How do these compare to the Voskhod 6N1P-EV?


 

 I tried all the 6N1P-EVs, even cyro'd ones from CryoSet.  They all kinda sucked.  Not even in the same league as the 6N23 Voskhods.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Gonna go out on a limb.....
> That getter design didn't appear until after 1970 maybe 1980


 

 I'll sort through my 1980s and 1990s to see if they have a similar variation...may-be so.


----------



## rb2013

Another variation on the 6n23p Voskhods - narrow grid and wide grid. 
   
  This is probably why some folks have not found these tubes amazing, while others rave about them - different versions sound different.
   
  1977 Wide Gray Grid and 1980 Narrow Silver Grid
 
  Same tubes without flash


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> I'll sort through my 1980s and 1990s to see if they have a similar variation...may-be so.


 
  I know bubkus about Russian valves, so  I could very well be wrong.
  Everything I've ever seen in the sixty's and earlier were large and small "O" getters and "D" getters.
  About 1969 Philips introduced the dimple getter.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I know bubkus about Russian valves, so  I could very well be wrong.
> Everything I've ever seen in the sixty's and earlier were large and small "O" getters and "D" getters.
> About 1969 Philips introduced the dimple getter.


 

 Who can figure those crazy Russians...they did beat us into space with Sputnik, that was 1957.  I think they mostly copied western technology, but in those days they were leaders.  And when it came to the military -  they got it.  Almost all Soviet radar and communication equipment was tube based, they did not go the transistor route until much later then us.
   
  All I know is, after comparing all the best 6922 type tubes for 10 years, these suckers sound really good.  The prices today are ridiculous.  Hey, but what did an Amperex 'pinched waist' or S&H CCa go for in 1979?  When everyone wanted transistor based audio, TV and Radio equipment?  Pennies I'm sure - throw away prices.


----------



## sceleratus

If anyone would like,  I would be happy to correct some of the Voshkod photos for exposure, color, and contrast/shadows.  That way we can see silver v grey, logos and construction.  Photography is my other stupid passion.
   
Here is a link to a Dropbox folder.  Put the large / original image there.  I'll correct them and name them 'fixed-1.jpg" etc.
If you like them, you can post them.  I didn't want to drag them down without permission.
   
EDIT:
Didn't mean too imply the [size=small]images were bad, I think I can bring out the getter more.[/size]


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> If anyone would like,  I would be happy to correct some of the Voshkod photos for exposure, color, and contrast/shadows.  That way we can see silver v grey, logos and construction.  Photography is my other stupid passion.
> 
> Here is a link to a Dropbox folder.  Put the large / original image there.  I'll correct them and name them 'fixed-1.jpg" etc.
> If you like them, you can post them.  I didn't want to drag them down without permission.
> ...


 

 Hey thanks for the help!  I'll send mine over later today.


----------



## HK_sends

oskari said:


> Hoping that the tubemongers might see the question...



 
 They did...their response is: "Correction: Armonk should be Hicksville. Cant delete IBM from the mind." Cheers!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Hey thanks for the help!  I'll send mine over later today.


 
  Cool.
  The bigger the file, the better.
  Let me know it's there.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> They did...their response is: "Correction: Armonk should be Hicksville. Cant delete IBM from the mind."Cheers!


 
   
  Thank you both!


----------



## ilikepooters

removed.


----------



## sceleratus

I amp'd the Voshkod photo up a bit, since rb2013 didn't seem to mind.
   
   

   
   
EDIT:
I can fix under exposed better than over exposed / glare.  Because they are smaller .jpg files they tend to pixelate when manipulated a lot.
  [size=small]Again, these are over amp'd to bring out detail.[/size]


----------



## NightFlight

I think this video teaches the construction of a tube the best.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> I tried all the 6N1P-EVs, even cyro'd ones from CryoSet.  They all kinda sucked.  Not even in the same league as the 6N23 Voshkods.


 
   
  +1


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I think this video teaches the construction of a tube the best.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y


 
   
   
  That's a great video!


----------



## HK_sends

oskari said:


> Thank you both!



 
 You are quite welcome! I have a couple of more items to post from them but my work browser is FUBAR on formatting so I have to wait until I get home. -HK sends


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I amp'd the Voshkod photo up a bit, since rb2013 didn't seem to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They are better.  I'll try and send the large size files.  I'll take a few more of these Reflectors as well.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> If anyone would like,  I would be happy to correct some of the Voshkod photos for exposure, color, and contrast/shadows.  That way we can see silver v grey, logos and construction.  Photography is my other stupid passion.
> 
> Here is a link to a Dropbox folder.  Put the large / original image there.  I'll correct them and name them 'fixed-1.jpg" etc.
> If you like them, you can post them.  I didn't want to drag them down without permission.
> ...


 

 They should all be in there and a few more.


----------



## GrindingThud

Makes sense, the data sheets are quite different between the 23 and the 1. Looks like I'll be snarfing up a few of these while the price is low. 
One more twist.... How about the triple mica black plate variant?




rb2013 said:


> I tried all the 6N1P-EVs, even cyro'd ones from CryoSet.  They all kinda sucked.  Not even in the same league as the 6N23 Voshkods.


----------



## NightFlight

I have a feeling this thread can make prices jump.


... I've got a couple pair of CV2493/01 on the way. Kinda funny. The voshkod were just in and the wife was threatening to throw out all my Schiit.... just as I won. Tubes and a divorce coming up. win win.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





bsn said:


> I think it's high time we ask Jason Stoddard for a "Special Head-Fi Edition" Lyr.  It would feature two sets of tube sockets that can always supply heater current to both banks and a soft A/B switch to select the tubes in bank A or B.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> That would be worth every penny!


 
  I actually got an answer to your posts from TubeMonger:
   
  "Funny, we have been working on one such item for a while with some electrical measurement features. Simple passive unit without electronics should be easy to derive."
   
I know I'd like to see it!




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

...and this:
   
  "Anyone try 1960s Siemens & Halske PCC88 in Lyr. Here is a photo for reference. Most Siemens PCC88 tubes in the market are late 1970s-early 1980s without splatter shield above the plates. 
  
 BTW, Telefunken PCC88 batch should be here in next 10 days. We can bid on this Siemens lot also.








 
  Tubemonger
www.tubemonger.com

 For your tube ID Questions
www.tubemongerlib.com"
   
  I know I've tried the later S&H PCC88s which weren't bad at all.  I'm curious to see how the Telefunken PCC88s sound...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

OK, I've finally made a decision.
   
  A/B comparisons are not easy, there's a lot of work involved, and these tubes are really closely matched.
   
  But I'm going with the Orange Globes.
   
  The bass heft and slam was slightly better in the OGs than in the RTCs, but I found that the difference wasn't nearly as pronounced as I originally thought.  Maybe the RTCs burned in a bit more, maybe it took more critical listening to hear the difference clearly, I'm not sure.
   
  The soundstage was better with the RTCs. It was more three dimensional than with the OGs, but that difference was also less pronounced that I originally thought.  In fact, going through this exercise has given me new appreciation of the OGs soundstage! The soundstage of the OGs is not quite as  "intimate" as I had believed.
   
  I'd say that the high frequency reproduction was superb with both pairs of tubes,  if I had to decide based solely on the treble, I would still be agonizing on which tube to pick, I don't think I could ever call one really better than the other.
   
  What tipped the scales in favor of the OGs was that sweet, sweet midrange.  The midrange of the OGs was fluid and mellifluous, but never bloated or bloomy.  The RTCs had nice midrange also, to be sure.  But the mids on the OGs were just better.
   
  I hope I don't have to do this again for a while at least.  I'd much rather just relax and listen to music!
   





   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (We really need an LCD-2/3 Smilie!)


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> They should all be in there and a few more.


 
  I worked on a bunch and they are in the dropbox


----------



## Zuckfun

Just a heads up if anyone is interested- Upscale Audio is selling Telefunken E88CC/6922 for $109 each. A great price for an excellent tube


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Makes sense, the data sheets are quite different between the 23 and the 1. Looks like I'll be snarfing up a few of these while the price is low.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Whaat?   How do they sound?


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I have a feeling this thread can make prices jump.
> 
> 
> ... I've got a couple pair of CV2493/01 on the way. Kinda funny. The voshkod were just in and the wife was threatening to throw out all my Schiit.... just as I won. Tubes and a divorce coming up. win win.


 

 I've got boxes filled with tubes all around...they get used to it...after about 10 years!  It's the boxes filled with cables they really can't stand :-0


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I worked on a bunch and they are in the dropbox


 

 I will check - do I need a login and password?  It looked like it prompted me for it when I tried to put the pics there.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> OK, I've finally made a decision.
> 
> A/B comparisons are not easy, there's a lot of work involved, and these tubes are really closely matched.
> 
> ...


 

 This may help - from the www.tubeworld.com website.  There is pretty good description of most of the Amperex 6DJ8/6922s
   
   
 [size=200%]*The Best Sounding 6922=E88CC Gold Pins ever made*[/size] (SEE THE 6922 POLL RESULTS FOR CUSTOMER FEEDBACK REGARDING 6922's)     6922 Amperex Holland "Pinched Waist" 1958, many branded Valvo 6922  CCa Siemens Halske 1950's - 1960's (airy highs, great detail, solid bass)  CCa Telefunken 1950's - 1960's 6922  Amperex "PQ" Holland Gold Pins white printing 1960-1966 (older the better) 6922  Amperex Holland branded Amperex or Philips Miniwatt or Mullard Holland or Philips  Holland "SQ" 1960's 6922  Mullard 1960's CV2493=E88CC-01 Mullard late 1960's to mid-1970's  6922 Amperex USA "PQ" white printing 1960's then orange printing 1967-1972 GB-6922  Sylvania GOld Brand Gold Pins 1960's 6922  Sylvania, many are branded RCA 1970's - 1980's  6922 Tesla Gold Pins - older stock (very good value)   
  The 5th best sounding (Philips Holland SQ Halo getters) were beat handily by the silver shield Voshkods on my system, at least according to my ears...  From my experience none of the orange print or globes were as good as the top tubes listed here.  They tend to suffer from a bit of rolloff in the highs - or a bit closed in.  The white print Amperex's PQ (Holland) are the best, of course after the legendary Amperex pinched waists.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> This may help - from the www.tubeworld.com website.  There is pretty good description of most of the Amperex 6DJ8/6922s
> 
> 
> [size=200%]*The Best Sounding 6922=E88CC Gold Pins ever made*[/size] (SEE THE 6922 POLL RESULTS FOR CUSTOMER FEEDBACK REGARDING 6922's)     6922 Amperex Holland "Pinched Waist" 1958, many branded Valvo 6922  CCa Siemens Halske 1950's - 1960's (airy highs, great detail, solid bass)  CCa Telefunken 1950's - 1960's 6922  Amperex "PQ" Holland Gold Pins white printing 1960-1966 (older the better) 6922  Amperex Holland branded Amperex or Philips Miniwatt or Mullard Holland or Philips  Holland "SQ" 1960's 6922  Mullard 1960's CV2493=E88CC-01 Mullard late 1960's to mid-1970's  6922 Amperex USA "PQ" white printing 1960's then orange printing 1967-1972 GB-6922  Sylvania GOld Brand Gold Pins 1960's 6922  Sylvania, many are branded RCA 1970's - 1980's  6922 Tesla Gold Pins - older stock (very good value)
> The 5th best sounding (Philips Holland SQ Halo getters) were beat handily by the silver shield Voshkods on my system, at least according to my ears...  From my experience none of the orange print or globes were as good as the top tubes listed here.  They tend to suffer from a bit of rolloff in the highs - or a bit closed in.  The white print Amperex's PQ (Holland) are the best, of course after the legendary Amperex pinched waists.


 
  Sigh, you had to do this. I have nothing that's on this list. So next steps are obvious


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Sigh, you had to do this. I have nothing that's on this list. So next steps are obvious


 

 Sorry meant to include this list as well (don't know why tubeworld lists these seperate)
   
 The Best Sounding 6DJ8=ECC88 ever made are:     6DJ8 Siemens West Germany 1960's (nothing beats this tube; accurate, open, focused, detailed, airy, tight bass)  6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boy Holland "D" getter 1950's (superbly musical 6DJ8, nice articulate bass, 3D sound)  6DJ8 Telefunken West Germany 1960's (a little bass shy, but superbly smooth and listenable long term)  6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boy Holland 1960's  6DJ8 Amperex Holland 1960's and Amperex Holland Globe Logo late 1960's - mid 1970's (some are branded Philips Miniwatt)  CV5358=6DJ8 Mullard 1960's (smooth, good bass, the older versions are the best)  6DJ8 Mullard 1960's (either branded Mullard or Philips or Amperex Great Britain)  6DJ8 Sylvania late 1960's - mid 1970's (excellent sound for the money, best value)  6DJ8 GE USA 1960's - 1970's (good value)   
  The pincheys and the gray CCa are the best of the best!  Buy some Voshkods - they're only $20...would really like to hear your comparisons.  If you want I'll sell you a pr of 1980s silver shields, fully tested and matched, for the $20 and $5 for shipping.  This way you don't have to deal with Russian tube dealers...if you don't like'em send them back to me (I'll refund the $20 not the shipping).


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> I will check - do I need a login and password?  It looked like it prompted me for it when I tried to put the pics there.


 

 I found them - thanks!  I'll repost with descriptions tomorrow


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> ...........
> 
> The pincheys and the gray CCa are the best of the best!  Buy some Voshkods - they're only $20...would really like to hear your comparisons.  If you want I'll sell you a pr of 1980s silver shields, fully tested and matched, for the $20 and $5 for shipping.  This way you don't have to deal with Russian tube dealers...if you don't like'em send them back to me (I'll refund the $20 not the shipping).


 
  Hey thanks. I'll take you up on your offer. I'll send you a PM.


----------



## hedphonz

is this the correct voskhod's  that you guys are talking about on here ?
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-Tube-NOS-1983-same-codes-VOSKHOD-Freeshipping-/321135485407?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac52aa1df
   
  thought they would be a good choice for my first dabble into rolling as there cheap and have good reviews


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> I found them - thanks!  I'll repost with descriptions tomorrow


 
  I did not see the shiny shields.
  Do you have one of those?


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> I've got boxes filled with tubes all around...they get used to it...after about 10 years!  It's the boxes filled with cables they really can't stand :-0


 
   
  That's funny.  I had cables laying all around.  My wife wasn't happy until she put them all in boxes!


----------



## GrindingThud

I'll let you know when they come in.    
   
  Quote:


rb2013 said:


> Whaat?   How do they sound?


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> That's funny.  I had cables laying all around.  My wife wasn't happy until she put them all in boxes!


 

 Maybe it's not the cables and tubes, but the Boxes that are the problem.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> is this the correct voskhod's  that you guys are talking about on here ?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-Tube-NOS-1983-same-codes-VOSKHOD-Freeshipping-/321135485407?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac52aa1df
> 
> thought they would be a good choice for my first dabble into rolling as there cheap and have good reviews


 

 I can't tell from the picture.  The one's I'm referring to have a long shinny silver shield running up to a post that hold the getter. 
   
  If you want a I pair, I'll extend my offer to you that I made before: $20 plus $5 shipping for a 1980s matched pr with silver shinny shields.  Tested and matched on my Sencor tester.  If you don't like them you can send them back to me for a refund of the $20.  Just send me a PM.  I am not a tube dealer or in the audio business at all - just want to share the joy I've found in these marvelous tubes - and hear what other folks think of them.  My handle on Audiogon is RB99 - long illustrious feedback.
   
  Think of me as the 'Johnny Apple Seed' of vintage Russian 6N23s!
   
  Silver shield on the left vs Gray shield on the right.

   
  PS Thanks sceleratus for the improved pics!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I did not see the shiny shields.
> Do you have one of those?


 

 Yeah, it's pic number 12


----------



## NightFlight

rb2013 said:


> This may help - from the www.tubeworld.com website.  There is pretty good description of most of the Amperex 6DJ8/6922s
> 
> 
> [COLOR=FF0000][SIZE=200%]*The Best Sounding 6922=E88CC Gold Pins ever made*[/SIZE][/COLOR] (SEE THE 6922 POLL RESULTS FOR CUSTOMER FEEDBACK REGARDING 6922's)
> ...





With the OGs I find myself turning up the volume, straining four detail. Their fun, but a hair shouty. IMHO w/my rig. Then again, I haven't put them back in since before my DAC uber upgrade.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> With the OGs I find myself turning up the volume, straining four detail. Their fun, but a hair shouty. IMHO w/my rig. Then again, I haven't put them back in since before my DAC uber upgrade.


 

 Funny thing about detail, you don't know what your missing.  In other words, it's not what your hearing, but what's left out.  Until you experience the 'missing' information, you're really unaware it exists.  The 'air' people speak about is the ambient clues that the lowest level of detail transmits.  That is why the power supply (linear, regulated, choke filtering, etc...) in audio equipment is so important, it removes the grunge that masks the detail.
   
  This detail shows itself in obvious ways, like the light cymbal taps in the background, guitar string overtones, etc...  In somewhat obvious ways, like being able to clearly hear individual instruments in the mix, etc.   But after years of listening to good audio equipment, it's the non-obvious things, like the subtle ambient clues that project the holographic natural sound stage.  The projection from each instrument into a three dimensional space, not just the obvious front wave (which is loudest) but the reflected back and side waves.  This is what produces that incredible realistic effect.
   
  The other big thing for me is dynamics, not the obvious macro variety (loudest to softest volume).  But the micro kind, how quickly can the waveform be created and still have a natural decay.  You hear this on guitars and piano really well. 
   
  These things are what define great audio, and lead to that captivating effect.  I've found they are really important regarding headphone listening, especially in recreating the sound field.
   
  I should also mention tone.  Natural, rich tone is also so critical.  Thin, weak sounding tone robs the other information - the natural reverberation and overtones that make for pleasing audio.  Tubes excel here, IMHO, but in the solid state world MOSFET transistors come really close, with many other positive attributes, like deep, tight bass, etc...
   
  Once you hear it, there is no going back.


----------



## OldSkool

RB just hit it out of the park! Thank you for that well-written description, my friend!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> RB just hit it out of the park! Thank you for that well-written description, my friend!


 

 Thanks for the compliment!  This is what does it for me, and everyone's different.  But after going through so much audio equipment (one time I had an almost SOTA system), you learn what does it for you and what doesn't.
   
  Nice part you can get this without spending too much money!
   
  We live in wonderful audio times...


----------



## kothganesh

oldskool said:


> RB just hit it out of the park! Thank you for that well-written description, my friend!



^2. I'll second that. Great job Bob and you know you have a new convert


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Yeah, it's pic number 12


 
  Why are the pics so small?
  They should be 1200 px on the long edge.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> ^2. I'll second that. Great job Bob and you know you have a new convert


 

 Much appreciated!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Why are the pics so small?
> They should be 1200 px on the long edge.


 

 That I don't know.  I thought you might have compressed them.  The ones I emailed over were pretty large, about 2 MB each.  Not to familiar with the drop box thing.  I just copied them over to my hard drive from the drop box (cut and paste).  Maybe I should have done it differently.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Why are the pics so small?
> They should be 1200 px on the long edge.


 

 I did this one as a "Save Image As", I think it worked better!


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> We live in wonderful audio times...


 
   
  We really do


----------



## Sanlitun

I received two pairs of tubes in the mail today, some Brimar 6BQ7A'a and some 1975 6N1P Voskhod gold grids.
   
  I'm doing a quick listen with the 6N1P's and I have to say i'm impressed. Much much better than I had expected.


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> I received two pairs of tubes in the mail today, some Brimar 6BQ7A'a and some 1975 6N1P Voskhod gold grids.
> 
> I'm doing a quick listen with the 6N1P's and I have to say i'm impressed. Much much better than I had expected.


 
   
  Can't stress this enough on the Brimar 6BQ7A tubes... give them plenty of burn-in before passing judgement on the sound.   When I first bought these, I rolled them in and thought they were awful.   Other people have had the same experience.   After only 7-8 hours there was a noticeable difference in sound quality, and after a couple of days of use they really settled in well.   They are excellent sounding tubes once burned in.
   
     -Mike


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *rb2013* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The other big thing for me is dynamics, not the obvious macro variety (loudest to softest volume).  But the micro kind, how quickly can the waveform be created and still have a natural decay.  You hear this on guitars and piano really well.
> 
> ...


 
   
  My older brother is the hard core audiophile I owe my ear to.  What you say above is his basic rant/preach.  Detail detail detail.  Now I'm stuck on this cursed quest as well....
   
  These days he's at the point where he mods either cheap or expensive equipment alike to make it perform the way he wants. The thing about electronics I've learned from him is that every part of the chain affects the signature and detail slightly. Generally not for the better. Every solder junction, every component, every connector. Micro detail is lost cumulatively throughout. The emf field surrounding the signal interferes with itself en route through the circuit, so those sorts of fixes are part of the equation. Then there is component selection.  Vibration potentially could jostle the emf to create more interference, so that can be damped as well.  He's got a few other simple tricks, but he keeps those cards close to his chest so I can't comment. He really should be building amps.
   
  Initially I laughed when I saw he tossed his Belles Research 450 in favour of a tiny old beat up peice-of-junk-seen-better-days Kenwood amp. Wish I had a picture.... Then I gave it a listen. Never heard anything like that. I kept imagining I could see it. Weird, but there you have it.  The freak of nature Kenwood is modded out the wazoo and could blow up any minute, but it shows me its not about money.
   
  I've tried going to live performances, but all I hear is PA systems set up in a flash in the wrong room and it generally sucks.
   
  But I digress... Back to tubes and headphones.


----------



## john57

Just go to [size=11pt]unamplified[/size] concerts is what I do and hate many PA systems and they can not even do voices correctly.


----------



## NightFlight

Well, I did it again. _*I let a new tube get the better of me.*_ I've let things settle in. I did some very quick hot swapping (in that my fingers got hot).  My signature has been updated to reflect my preference for detail revealing tubes. The Voshkod is in my top 5 and bumped the Mullard ECC88.  Lorenz SEL got bumped up to #2 from 4.
   
  The Voskod weakness is immediately evident in the big room reverberant bass recordings. A bit flabby as a result. Gritty and uneven gain across spectrum. I don't think I actually like it. Perhaps I'm just manic... but it rubbed me the wrong way after going back and forth quickly the other tubes we've been lauding over the last few months.
   
  This was all done with 30 second listen and power down. Wait. Switch. Power up. Wait 1 min. Listen to same track. Repeat.
  So take with a grain of salt, the tubes didn't even get a warm up. All I used was their raw initial impression including Signature, Space, Placement and Detail. The short interval allowed me to do real comparisons with real take away.
   
  Like I said, the Cca gray plate is an absolute no brainer.  Its miles above my #2 top tube.  Looks like July 29th will bring me the CV2493 and I'm holding out hope for it. I don't feel as thought I've reached any holy grail, but the Cca has me enjoying music again at the very least.


----------



## rb2013

NightFlight
   
  >These days he's at the point where he mods either cheap or expensive equipment alike to make it perform the way he wants. The thing about electronics I've learned from him is that every part of the chain affects the signature and detail slightly. Generally not for the better. Every solder junction, every component, every connector. Micro detail is lost cumulatively throughout. The emf field surrounding the signal interferes with itself en route through the circuit, so those sorts of fixes are part of the equation. Then there is component selection.  Vibration potentially could jostle the emf to create more interference, so that can be damped as well.  He's got a few other simple tricks, but he keeps those cards close to his chest so I can't comment. He really should be building amps.
   
  Initially I laughed when I saw he tossed his Belles Research 450 in favour of a tiny old beat up peice-of-junk-seen-better-days Kenwood amp.<
   
   
  Yes, it all makes a difference!  I cover the inside of all my DACs, Phono Pre-amp, Tuner, Amps, USB interfaces, Servers with ERS shielding: http://www.tweekgeek.com/stillpoints-ers-rfi-killer/
   
  I've had good success with Ceraball pucks, and Synergistic Research MIGs for vibration control.
   
  I love vintage audio gear, Especially Kenwood!  He likely re-biased the amp into class A.
  I bought a mint Kenwood KT-917 tuner, built like a tank.  Then sent it to Radio X for a complete moding - all new caps, silver wire, SOTA opamps, IEC connector, Cardas jacks, alignment, cleaning and tuning.  It cost $600 on Ebay, I spent another $700 on mods!  It rocks!!  The sound on a good station that doesn't compress (like Seattle KING FM) is amazing - CD quality!  Plus it just looks so cool, lots of big knobs to play with!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Well, I did it again. _*I let a new tube get the better of me.*_ I've let things settle in. I did some very quick hot swapping (in that my fingers got hot).  My signature has been updated to reflect my preference for detail revealing tubes. The Voshkod is in my top 5 and bumped the Mullard ECC88.  Lorenz SEL got bumped up to #2 from 4.
> 
> The Voskod weakness is immediately evident in the big room reverberant bass recordings. A bit flabby as a result. Gritty and uneven gain across spectrum. I don't think I actually like it. Perhaps I'm just manic... but it rubbed me the wrong way after going back and forth quickly the other tubes we've been lauding over the last few months.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well I had lots of Seimens CCas, Some S&H that came in the factory Orange and Blue Rohre box (still have the box), some Lorentz, gray shields and silver shields.  When I did a very extensive comparison with the Voshkod Rockets - the S&H CCa gray shield was better, but not by as large a margin as your hearing, the Lorentz and the silver shield CCas were not as good.
   
  When a S&H CCa gray failed from a beautiful matched pr - it was like a dagger to my heart!  I put the Voshkods into my DAC and amps, and really didn't miss the CCas, so I sold the collection and used the money for part of the funds for a really nice DAC.
   
  I guess it all depends on one's ear and equipment.  You are amassing a really nice collection of these tubes - are you going to try the Amperex 'Pinched Waists'?  I saw Brent Jesse had a pr for sale.  I never heard them, but many say they are the very best of the best.  Always curious about them.
   
  One note on the Voshkods they do take a while to breakin fully - around 150-200 hrs.  Like most equipment they go through this weird break-in.  First they sound pretty good, but closed in, then they open up and sound great.  For some reason they then get worst for around 50-60 hours!  Frustrating as all hell.  But gradually they get better, then better and better. Finally they are just as sweet as can be.  The Lyr did the same for me on breakin - it's now fully broken in and sounding great (around 500 hours)!   Liking it better then the Woo WA6-SE, much quicker and livelier, the Woo is a little boring in comparison.   Can't wait to crack the Lyr open and start a few mods 
   
  Also you should wait for approximately 3-4 minutes before listing to the tubes.  The anode takes awhile to heat up to start emitting electrons, so the tube won't sound right, and the MOSFETs running in class A need a little time to heat back up, the caps to charge, and so on.
   
  This is how I compare all equipment - I have three or four tracks that I know by heart.
  One has all kinds of detail and incredible bass notes (must be close to 20Hz)  David Gray - Please Forgive Me.
  One has incredibly subtle vocals and rich guitar and clarinet harmonics - Joni Mitchell - Down to You (also lots of emotion - does it connect with me emotionally)
  One has just great sound staging - mind blowing on headphones, also great bass - Florence and the Machine - Dog Days Are Over.
   
  I do one round with only two tubes on each.  Then pick the best sounding tube and then do the same for the next tube.  After awhile using the same tracks you'll know what sounds good and what doesn't
   
  NOW REALLY IMPORTANT!  You must clear your Eustachian tubes!  These are ducts that balance the air pressure on the inside and outside of the eardrum.  If the pressure doesn't match the music will sound muffled!  I clear mine by holding my nose and GENTLY blowing with my mouth closed (like when your clearing your ears on an airplane).  With practice you will only use enough pressure to clear the pressure differences.  Don't do this if you have a cold or allergies or any other blockage in the ears (swimmers ear, etc), and do it slowly and stop if you have any pain what's so ever.  But you shouldn't be doing this kind of audio evaluation if you have a cold!   Please consult your doctor before trying.
   
  Now your ready to clearly hear the details!


----------



## rb2013

One other note on the Voshkods, the pins are not gold (too bad), so need a Detox cleaning and a little ProGold contact enhancer to sound best.
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Just go to [size=11pt]unamplified[/size] concerts is what I do and hate many PA systems and they can not even do voices correctly.


 

 I agree completely!  Best is pure acoustic in a great setting, heard George Winston in a small hall some time ago.  The tone and harmonics coming from his piano made my jaw drop.  Problem is I like that music, but also Rock, Alt, Emo, etc...as well.
   
  Going to hear 'The Maldives' a Seattle band Friday night at a small Pub - should be awesome.  No real need for a PA there (unless the crowd gets rowdy!)


----------



## sceleratus

the tiny men have landed


----------



## OldSkool

sceleratus said:


> the tiny men have landed




The 1958 'boys? Whatcha think?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> The 1958 'boys? Whatcha think?


 
   
 At first I was underwhelmed.  I went to my benchmark track, Zeppelin, remastered, "Babe I'm gonna leave you", with great anticipation and thought "Where is my song."  I ordered a-la-mode and got a pop tart.  Still nice but the sound stage and the middle were lacking.  I could listen to this track four times in a row on the RTC's and want for nothing.  "Babe I'm gonna leave you" will expose any deficiencies in sound stage and mids.
  
 Hendrix, "Watch tower" and "Hey Joe", same thing, but I hung in there and went to cut four, Buddy Guy & Junior Wells, "Sally Mae".  What a turn around.  They did a splendid job.  Same thing with James Taylor "Fire and Rain".  Beatles Anthology album,"Something" and "Let it Be"  sounded incredible.  At totally different listening experience.
  
 The detail in the Tiny Men is amazing, incredibly clear with a super top end and great percussion.  After listening more I either adapted to their sound or they started to open up, or both.  I did find them a bit fatiguing though. I think this will clear up when cooked longer.
  
 I heard a lot of upside.  Because they are pleasurable I will give them more time and not immediately roll back to the RTC's.  They sound like two different types of valves that have their own strengths with different music genres.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





> When a S&H CCa gray failed from a beautiful matched pr - it was like a dagger to my heart!  I put the Voshkods into my DAC and amps, and really didn't miss the CCas, so I sold the collection and used the money for part of the funds for a really nice DAC.
> 
> I guess it all depends on one's ear and equipment.  You are amassing a really nice collection of these tubes - are you going to try the Amperex 'Pinched Waists'?  I saw Brent Jesse had a pr for sale.  I never heard them, but many say they are the very best of the best.  Always curious about them.


 
   
  They're a bit out of my reach. I saw some miniwatt pass by yesterday. I'm kinda broke right now. Gotta get out of debt and all that. Stop buying expensive.... anything. LOL. I likely shouldn't have let them go. They were super cheap: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/300919188693?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649  More likely they were just some simple Holland Amperex glass. *sigh*  I'm waiting for them to show up on ebay, listed by a seller who doesn't know what he has. *snicker*
   
  But I did grab these! http://www.ebay.ca/itm/181157274201?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 
   
  Sniped them for a buck over the highest bid.
   
  Quote: 





> Also you should wait for approximately 3-4 minutes before listing to the tubes.  The anode takes awhile to heat up to start emitting electrons, so the tube won't sound right, and the MOSFETs running in class A need a little time to heat back up, the caps to charge, and so on.


 
   
  Oh I know. But they are all the ones I have acquired recent months. A quick listen is enough to jog the memory. I did do the comparisons in haste while the family was out.
   
  Quote: 





> This is how I compare all equipment - I have three or four tracks that I know by heart.
> One has all kinds of detail and incredible bass notes (must be close to 20Hz)  David Gray - Please Forgive Me.
> One has incredibly subtle vocals and rich guitar and clarinet harmonics - Joni Mitchell - Down to You (also lots of emotion - does it connect with me emotionally)
> One has just great sound staging - mind blowing on headphones, also great bass - Florence and the Machine - Dog Days Are Over.


 
   
  Hey thanks! I love to know what other audiophiles use for reference tracks. I'm currently amassing my FLAC collection and love new music.
  Here's a related thread I started: http://www.head-fi.org/t/648733/hidden-gems-any-genre#post_9468936
   
  Quote: 





> NOW REALLY IMPORTANT!  You must clear your Eustachian tubes!  These are ducts that balance the air pressure on the inside and outside of the eardrum.  If the pressure doesn't match the music will sound muffled!  I clear mine by holding my nose and GENTLY blowing with my mouth closed (like when your clearing your ears on an airplane).  With practice you will only use enough pressure to clear the pressure differences.  Don't do this if you have a cold or allergies or any other blockage in the ears (swimmers ear, etc), and do it slowly and stop if you have any pain what's so ever.  But you shouldn't be doing this kind of audio evaluation if you have a cold!   Please consult your doctor before trying.


 
   
  Er, yes. I thought everyone just did that naturally, but I guess not. I clear my ears regularly when I have difficulty hearing something only realize everything open up greatly.  Happens all the time. I just have to shift my lower jaw to do this.  Kind of like yawning.  In fact that's what I pretend to do in company. Which... usually leads to actual yawning.  I don't blow, as that in my case blocks my ears badly.


----------



## NightFlight

Anyone know where I can get some white 6DJ8 form factor tube boxes in Canada?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Anyone know where I can get some white 6DJ8 form factor tube boxes in Canada?


 
   
http://www.amazon.ca/Vacuum-Miniature-Tubes-12AX7-12AT7/dp/B00C7O3KXQ/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1371747494&sr=8-5&keywords=vacuum+tube+boxes


----------



## MrTechAgent

How well does this stack up with the 650.
  I am looking for a amp  my budget is about 1500 for a amp/dac  combination.
  I still think the wa2 ( My current option) with the MS II is a no brainer but saving some money with the lyr and bitfrost ( If that is right ) would also be a good option , also I have heard that the lyr is good with orthos too. I want bass and vocals out the 650's which the wa2 provice also the 6se makes it faster and probably solves the famous rolling off.
  Thanks


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I saw some miniwatt pass by yesterday. -- -- They were super cheap: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/300919188693?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649  More likely they were just some simple Holland Amperex glass. *sigh*  I'm waiting for them to show up on ebay, listed by a seller who doesn't know what he has. *snicker*


 
   
  Nah, those are Philips Miniwatt-branded tubes made by Philips in a Philips tube plant in Heerlen in the Netherlands, which is exactly what the equivalent Amperex-branded Dutch-made tubes are.


----------



## NightFlight

Well, this is a rolling thread and I'm uncertain what sort of options you have with the WA6-SE.
   
  The site states there are a few power configuration options. Looks like perhaps the pre section uses 6ew7 tubes. Quick ebay search shows a few cheap replacement options.  The Lyr however is a totally different beast. Only the pre section is tubed with 6dj8's. It was a popular tube and there are million variants. Also close tubes will roll through the Lyr if you want to get experimental.
   
  I would love to hear the WA6-SE. I'd love to hear it stacked up against the Lyr with endgame Cca 6922s in it. Ultimately that's the question I think your asking. Save your pennies, get both and then sell later?
   
  Lyr's roll through here used on the for sale section too. Not so much on eBay. Just tried to search for 'Schiit' on ebay.... it keeps correcting to Schmit. You'll have to quote it.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> http://www.amazon.ca/Vacuum-Miniature-Tubes-12AX7-12AT7/dp/B00C7O3KXQ/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1371747494&sr=8-5&keywords=vacuum+tube+boxes


 

 Thanks. Saw the same on .com, but didn't want to that route.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Thanks. Saw the same on .com, but didn't want to that route.


 
   
  Bah, tubedepot has them for a good price if you buy 100.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Nah, those are Philips Miniwatt-branded tubes made by Philips in a Philips tube plant in Heerlen in the Netherlands, which is exactly what the equivalent Amperex-branded Dutch-made tubes are.


 

 Tough to guage unless you've owned a pair an know the internals.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Tough to guage unless you've owned a pair an know the internals.


 
   
  It also helps if you recognize the Heerlen factory code ◿ visible in the photo.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Can't stress this enough on the Brimar 6BQ7A tubes... give them plenty of burn-in before passing judgement on the sound.   When I first bought these, I rolled them in and thought they were awful.   Other people have had the same experience.   After only 7-8 hours there was a noticeable difference in sound quality, and after a couple of days of use they really settled in well.   They are excellent sounding tubes once burned in.
> 
> -Mike


 
   
  They sounded very hot and distorted in the midrange initially but I think they are beginning to even out into something special. I had my doubts about these tubes as I had heard Brimar was often rebranding tubes, but for the price I paid they are a steal.
   
  The vintage 6N1P's I got along with these are amazing as well. I think if you get lucky with a good pair of Russian tubes you could quite possibly endgame with your Lyr. 
   
  I'm beginning to think I am close to the end of the road here.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





mrtechagent said:


> How well does this stack up with the 650.


 
  Like butter on bread.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> At first I was underwhelmed.  I went to my benchmark track, Zeppelin, remastered, "Babe I'm gonna leave you", with great anticipation and thought "Where is my song."  I ordered a-la-mode and got a pop tart.  Still nice but the sound stage and the middle were lacking.  I could listen to this track four times in a row on the RTC's and want for nothing.  "Babe I'm gonna leave you" will expose any deficiencies in sound stage and mids.
> 
> Hendrix, "Watch tower" and "Hey Joe", same thing, but I hung in there and went to cut four, Buddy Guy & Junior Wells, "Sally Mae".  What a turn around.  They did a splendid job.  Same thing with James Taylor "Fire and Rain".  Beatles Anthology album,"Something" and "Let it Be"  sounded incredible.  At totally different listening experience.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The "Tiny Men" will definitely need some burn in. The ones I tried previously sounded promising, but had noise issues...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> They're a bit out of my reach. I saw some miniwatt pass by yesterday. I'm kinda broke right now. Gotta get out of debt and all that. Stop buying expensive.... anything. LOL. I likely shouldn't have let them go. They were super cheap: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/300919188693?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649  More likely they were just some simple Holland Amperex glass. *sigh*  I'm waiting for them to show up on ebay, listed by a seller who doesn't know what he has. *snicker*
> 
> But I did grab these! http://www.ebay.ca/itm/181157274201?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  It's also a really great idea to include tracks that are acoustically recorded.  My go to track is "Big Bug Shuffle" off of the album Skip, Hop and Wobble by Douglas, Barenberg and Meyer :http://www.amazon.com/Skip-Hop-Wobble-Douglas/dp/B000000F33/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371768248&sr=8-1&keywords=douglas%2C+barenberg+and+meyer


----------



## rb2013

NightFlight:
  Nice get on those Siemens! 
   
  I'm negotiating to get a group of tubes include are the SEL Lorenz PCC88s, along with some Voshkods.  You really like the SELs?
   
  The ear clearing thing I learned years ago, when doing some critical listening the highs would just disappear from my system, other days it would sound fine.  I coughed once and it unplugged my ears - wow! 
   
  So I do it as a matter of course.
   
  I'll let you know how the SEL Lorenz sound if I get them.
   
   
  nelamvr6:
  I'll also check out the acoustically recorded tracks - thanks.
   
  I also use some new age, classical and jazz  tracks for a different kind of listening comparison - more for sound stage width, instrument placement, etc...  But I really need vocals I'm very familiar with to ground my impressions...the human voice is so challenging to get just right.  Especially females - gives away any harshness or edginess right from the start.  I finish with some Classic Rock, Alt and Emo tracks to see if the tube doesn't just get overwhelmed, sounding "congested" when pushed to the extreme.


----------



## sceleratus

IT WORKS !!!!!
 Music.
 Beautiful music.
  
 My benchmark track  [size=small]Zeppelin, "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You"[/size]
 [size=small]Is amazing.  Better than I could have expected.[/size]
  
 So much different than my Schiit Lyr.
 Rich.
 Mids in Spades.
  
 And these valves have only been cooked for and hour.
  
 I have a slight static,   at all volume levels.  Almost like listening to vinyl.
 Not unexpected because all the boards are bunched together.


----------



## sceleratus

I have the components necessary to support ECC88's......


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sceleratus said:


> IT WORKS !!!!!
> Music.
> Beautiful music.
> 
> ...




Awesome!! Congrats!


----------



## HK_sends

For those still looking out for Lorenz tubes, Tubemonger informed me there is a set of used grey-shield Stuttgart Lorenz PCC88s for auction on ebay here:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PCC88-7DJ8-ECC88-6DJ8-SUBS-VINTAGE-LORENZ-STRONG-/190858455235?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c700ce8c3
   
  FWIW, the grey shield Lorenz are the best of the "two-mica" tubes and are almost as good as the 3-mica.
   
  Disclaimer:  Neither TubeMonger nor I are associated with the seller in any way.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> IT WORKS !!!!!
> Music.
> Beautiful music.
> 
> ... 
  That's great!  Hopefully you will be able to resolve the static issue as well.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> That's great!  Hopefully you will be able to resolve the static issue as well.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  I need to re-cable.  It's so tight I have High Voltage lines crossing output amplifier leads.  duh.
  The transformers need better alignment too.
   
  It appears to be the right channel .......  That'll make it easier to track.
   
  The sound is very different from the Lyr.
  Having 100% valve rather than half SS .... trying to define it..... tubey, I guess.
  It's a lot more powerful.  Very big base.   Maybe less of a soundstage than the LYR.
  Could be due to fresh glass.
   
  I'll play it for a while then try the mods to support the ECC88..... Tiny Men


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





oskari said:


> It also helps if you recognize the Heerlen factory code ◿ visible in the photo.


 
   
  Where?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Nice get on those Siemens!
> 
> I'm negotiating to get a group of tubes include are the SEL Lorenz PCC88s, along with some Voshkods.  You really like the SELs?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I like the SELs. I grabbed them when they were going for around $40 a pair. They were the flavour of the week here in this thread at the time. If you go back you can find the recommendations from HK... I think it was. Their good, a hair wanting in the bottom end but otherwise very very clean. I think I gave them a 100hrs before a good listen.
   
  I'll give the Voshkods another run after another hundred hours on them.  I'm going to solder together a dummy headphone load tonight so I can run the tubes without noise or potential headphone damage.  If the tube burn-in is tied to the output level (which no one has been able to confirm) I can crank the amp up more - so long as the 1/2 watt of resistance doesn't start to run away and _bad things happen_(TM).
   
  Got some time before I head to to work tonight! Time to fire up the glass...


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I have the components necessary to support ECC88's......


 
  VERY COOL!  Is that a MOSFET sticking out of the board on the heatsink?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> VERY COOL!  Is that a MOSFET sticking out of the board on the heatsink?


 
  Thanks,
   
  Yes.  MOSFET


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I like the SELs. I grabbed them when they were going for around $40 a pair. They were the flavour of the week here in this thread at the time. If you go back you can find the recommendations from HK... I think it was. Their good, a hair wanting in the bottom end but otherwise very very clean. I think I gave them a 100hrs before a good listen.
> 
> I'll give the Voshkods another run after another hundred hours on them.  I'm going to solder together a dummy headphone load tonight so I can run the tubes without noise or potential headphone damage.  If the tube burn-in is tied to the output level (which no one has been able to confirm) I can crank the amp up more - so long as the 1/2 watt of resistance doesn't start to run away and _bad things happen_(TM).
> 
> Got some time before I head to to work tonight! Time to fire up the glass...


 

 I just use my Sony Noise Cancelers during breakin, I turn it up to listening levels.  I'm swapping a pair of my 1980 silvers for a pr of SELs, so I'll give them a listen.
   
  My 1979 Voshkods have fully broken in now - they are better then the 1980, which beat the 1983s, which beat the 1992s.  The 1979 have a bit more liquidity in the mids.  I have 1975s and some 1967 Reflectors with saucer getters on the way...and now the SELs!  Oh what tube swapping fun!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Yes.  MOSFET


 

 For regulation?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> "Babe I'm gonna leave you"


 
   
  You mean "Babe, I'm gonna *leebe* you".
   
  LOL


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> For regulation?


 
   
  The AMP was designed by Tom Christiansen,  he's a Sr design engineer for TI that happens to love tube amps.
  The big thing with his unit is power regulation.  
   
  The board with the MOSFET attached to the heat sink is the "Maida" high voltage regulator.
  The stack of 3 small square boards are 6.3V and 5V filament regulators.
   
  Here's a link to his web site.  All the schematics and BOM's are there.
  He just sells the boards for $165
   
   
  EDIT:
   
  I'm just an idiot with a soldering iron.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> For those still looking out for Lorenz tubes, Tubemonger informed me there is a set of used grey-shield Stuttgart Lorenz PCC88s for auction on ebay here:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PCC88-7DJ8-ECC88-6DJ8-SUBS-VINTAGE-LORENZ-STRONG-/190858455235?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c700ce8c3
> 
> ...


 
   
  Aye... Those are going to climb in price no doubt. Also my PCC88 saved search didn't find those for me. Weird.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





mrtechagent said:


> How well does this stack up with the 650.
> I am looking for a amp  my budget is about 1500 for a amp/dac  combination.
> I still think the wa2 ( My current option) with the MS II is a no brainer but saving some money with the lyr and bitfrost ( If that is right ) would also be a good option , also I have heard that the lyr is good with orthos too. I want bass and vocals out the 650's which the wa2 provice also the 6se makes it faster and probably solves the famous rolling off.
> Thanks


 

 Well I have a Woo WA6-SE tricked out ot the max (recapped) NOS Mullard 1957 Rec, NOS Nationals 6EM7 with Woo custom adapters (highly recommended).  Went through every 5u4G/GZ rec tube I could find, same goes for the drivers.  After some tube rolling I really like the Lyr - very lively with excellent tonality and sound stage.  I think after some mods, I'll sell the Woo.  The woo is very liquid in the mids, has awesome bass and sound stage, but is a bit boring in the dynamics department (marco and micro).
   
  Now you were looking at the WA-2, a bit different.  Go to this link http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
   
  The chart shows the differences between the Woos - the WA6-SE is rated better then the WA2, it also has WAY more grunt.  2000mW@32 ohms vs the WA-2 at 310mW@32 ohms.
  If you're going the Ortho route - definitely get the WA6-SE - or a WA-22 - but now your talking way, way more money!  The Lyr will set the Orthos on fire (well almost literally!)
   
  Good Luck!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> They sounded very hot and distorted in the midrange initially but I think they are beginning to even out into something special. I had my doubts about these tubes as I had heard Brimar was often rebranding tubes, but for the price I paid they are a steal.
> 
> The vintage 6N1P's I got along with these are amazing as well. I think if you get lucky with a good pair of Russian tubes you could quite possibly endgame with your Lyr.
> 
> I'm beginning to think I am close to the end of the road here.


 
  Any time you 'get lucky', it's a good thing


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> The AMP was designed by Tom Christiansen,  he's a Sr design engineer for TI that happens to love tube amps.
> The big thing with his unit is power regulation.
> 
> The board with the MOSFET attached to the heat sink is the "Maida" high voltage regulator.
> ...


 

 Yowzer!  Nice!!   I whole heartily agree on the importance of excellent power regulation.  I'll check out the website.  about how much was the rest?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> EDIT:
> 
> I'm just an idiot with a soldering iron.


 
   
  400V in there. Be careful. This isn't a build for _total_ idiots


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Yowzer!  Nice!!   I whole heartily agree on the importance of excellent power regulation.  I'll check out the website.  about how much was the rest?


 
   
  +1 and +?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> 400V in there. Be careful. This isn't a build for _total_ idiots


 
  Oh Ya.... At the moment it's a death trap.
   
  I have a very bad habit of dropping my pinky when I'm holding DMM probes.... It never mattered before.... Guess where my pinky landed?   TWICE !
   
  It matters.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Oh Ya.... At the moment it's a death trap.
> 
> I have a very bad habit of dropping my pinky when I'm holding DMM probes.... It never mattered before.... Guess where my pinky landed?   TWICE !
> 
> It matters.


 
   
  Yeah. I highly recommend you work on it while fully awake.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> +1 and +?


 
   
  It's not a project where you're going to save dough by building it yourself.  The cost for the challenge and resulting satisfaction is steep.
  What a crap shoot...!.   I'm pleased now.
   
  Tomorrow I'm off to the water cutters.


----------



## sceleratus

6 inches to the right is the volume control and HP jack.
  Easy to forget about those little solder bumps.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Where?


 
   
  On the tube on the right.
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Late 1950s onwards - Philips/Mullard and tubes from associated Philips factories worldwide always have etched date codes on side of the glass. Codes may be faint or hard to see. Good light and magnifying glass helps.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Oh Ya.... At the moment it's a death trap.
> 
> I have a very bad habit of dropping my pinky when I'm holding DMM probes.... It never mattered before.... Guess where my pinky landed?   TWICE !
> 
> It matters.


 

 Is your hair still standing straight up?


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> It's not a project where you're going to save dough by building it yourself.  The cost for the challenge and resulting satisfaction is steep.
> What a crap shoot...!.   I'm pleased now.
> 
> Tomorrow I'm off to the water cutters.


 
  I see - thanks for the detailed list.  Still cheaper then a used Woo WA5-LE or a Manley-Neo Classic 300B RC.


----------



## sceleratus

Dang.
  
 I spent all day implementing the ECC88 modification, and wouldn't you know…. it sounds awesome.
  
 But the bummer is….. I must buy more glass…"must buy more glass, must buy more glass"
  
 I'm rock'n the RTC's and wow…..  Gotta git me soma that there Ruskie glass.  And if they blow up…..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I laugh at smoke !


----------



## BenchmarkGrado

Dear Tube Rolling Brethren,

What parameters are compared to deem a set of tubes a matched pair? 

Thanks,
Mc


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





benchmarkgrado said:


> Dear Tube Rolling Brethren,
> 
> What parameters are compared to deem a set of tubes a matched pair?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Transconductance are the figures you'll see bandied about on places like ebay, often measured in mA/v or Mmhos, the higher the better, for tubes like ECC88 12.5mA/v would be considered NOS.
   
  But these figures mean nothing when you want the left and right channel to be at equal volume. Then gain is factored in to the equation.
   
  ECC88 typically has a µ  (or Mu) of 33 but i've had tubes as low as 31 and as high as 35.
   
  For me, Gain (Mu) is the most important, i don't care if one tube tests 12 mA/v and the other one only 10.5 mA/v as long as the gain is equal.
   
  But i probably don't know schiit, so ignore me


----------



## sceleratus

pooters is100% correct.
  Looking from the 10,000 ft level.
   
  These are "dual triode" tubes (I call them valves)  Each tube has 2 triodes.
  Different sellers use different pieces of test gear that measure different values.
   
  If you are buying 2 tubes there are a pair of measurements for each tube.  One for each triode.
  So the seller may say 100/105 for one tube and 110/110 for the other.
  You want everything as balanced as possible.
   
  If the seller say "Tests NOS" that mean "New Old Stock"
  So it could be a 1968 tube that has never been used and thus is NOS.  Those values might be 120 / 120.
  Those can be found in the tubes specification sheet published in the 1960's
   
  As ilikepooters posted the values the seller states may be from a different piece of gear with different measurements.
  Those values can be found on the spec sheet.


----------



## BenchmarkGrado

Thanks, 

OK, so Emissions (7.5/7.0 ma) reflects the transconductance of the tube sections and says nothing about the gain, but indicates a used tube with a moderate lifespan? One cannot know the gain from such info? How does one then place a value on this particular tube?

Thanks, 
Mc


----------



## Lord Soth

ilikepooters said:


> For me, Gain (Mu) is the most important, i don't care if one tube tests 12 mA/v and the other one only 10.5 mA/v as long as the gain is equal.
> 
> But i probably don't know schiit, so ignore me




In theory,
mU = Rp x Gm

mU = Amplification Factor a.k.a "mu" /siemens
Rp = Plate resistance "Rp"/ohms
Gm = Transconductance in umhos


This is based on my personal experience.

I own a customized digital tube tester which can test tubes in the ECC88 family.
My tube tester is unique as it can test such tubes under variable test conditions.

After testing over 300 of such tubes (PCC88, E188CC, E288CC, 6DJ8, CCa, 6922) in my private collection, I can confidently say that the single mA reading from standard test conditions on the tube data sheet can be relied upon.

Why?

The ECC88 tube is very linear in nature, and I suppose this is why it is so popular in audio tube amps.

In other words, if you obtain a mA reading of say 15 at the standard test for 2 tubes, there is a very high probability that they will perform the same at say 12.5 mA under another set of test conditions.

What does this mean to the average audiophile?

If a set of ECC88 tubes is matched at say 15mA (both halves) at standard tube test conditions, the gain is also likely to be the same.
There is no need to worry too much about the gain for small preamp tubes.

Please note that this does not apply to power tubes such as EL34s for e.g. whereby tubes should be matched on gain.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





benchmarkgrado said:


> Thanks,
> 
> OK, so Emissions (7.5/7.0 ma) reflects the transconductance of the tube sections and says nothing about the gain, but indicates a used tube with a moderate lifespan? One cannot know the gain from such info? How does one then place a value on this particular tube?
> 
> ...


 
   
  7.0 mA/V i would guess the tube still has circa 60% of its life expectancy remaining, so around 3000 hours for an ECC88 or 6000 hours for an E88CC.
   
  Depends how much that listening time is worth to you i guess.
   
  Gain is a bit of a lottery unless you can persuade whoever is selling the tubes to match by gain, if they have a tester capable. You can buy your own tester, buy job lots of tubes and test yourself, but this would be expensive.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





benchmarkgrado said:


> Thanks,
> 
> OK, so Emissions (7.5/7.0 ma) reflects the transconductance of the tube sections and says nothing about the gain, but indicates a used tube with a moderate lifespan? One cannot know the gain from such info? How does one then place a value on this particular tube?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Again, the Tube data sheet is your friend!
  There is a list of readings for New tubes and "End of Life" tubes.
   
  If we take the example of the Philips E88CC (SQ) Tube datasheet (can be downloaded from the Internet), under standard Test conditions,
  A New tube is listed as
  Ia = 15mA
  S = 12.5 mA/V
   
  An "End of Life" tube has
  Ia = 13.5mA
  S =  9 mA/V
   
  And a "used" tube is listed as
  Ia = 14.2 - 15.8 Ia
  S = 10.5 - 15 mA/V
   
  As a New tube is used, it's readings actually shoot up slightly initially, hence a "used" tube could have higher readings than a completely "new" tube.


----------



## mhamel

So... to add to this and make it a bit more complicated than just reading the data sheet numbers...
   
  Recently I picked up a Maxi Preamp digital tube tester/matcher.   It's a great tester, measures transconductance, gain, noise, lets you listen to the tube right through the tester, etc.   When measuring anything in the 6DJ8 family, however, the numbers on it are nothing like what's on the data sheet.   The tester measures along a different point in the tube's curve, which is still valid, but makes the numbers themselves make no sense without plotting out where along the curve it should be.   It took a little getting used to, but it makes me hesitant to put numbers on the tube if I'm selling it, because it's easy to misread as a very low measurement even though it's NOS or better at the point in the curve where it was measured.


----------



## BenchmarkGrado

Therefore, following ilikepooters post, if the tube datasheet indicates that a good tube measures >= 6.5 ma, then ilp's estimate of 3000 remaining of the 6000 hrs expected lifespan should be close for that E88CC equivalent tube. If so, makes sense. The $purchase value then is substantially less than NOS. 
How much warmup time do you usually give your tubes before listening to your HPs? Figures into the functional lifespan of the MP.

Thanks, guys
Mc


----------



## BenchmarkGrado

mhamel,

There ideally, should then be a standard test curve and a reference test point on that curve to compare different tube samples. I'd be interested to see some of your output, if it is not too difficult to produce in these pages.

Mc


----------



## OldSkool

Why does the HD650 pair so well with the Amperex orange A-frames? I snagged a pair of orange PQ's on Audiogon last week and just now sitting down to enjoy them.
   
  Killer combo, IMO


----------



## TonyRS

Anybody with LCD-2's here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Which tubes compliment the LCD-2 best?


----------



## Argo Duck

That's interesting LS. Do you think the higher reading after the start of use could be the tube settling and reaching optimum performance., i.e. _burning in_?

Or just coincidence?

Btw, great info as usual.



lord soth said:


> As a New tube is used, it's readings actually shoot up slightly initially, hence a "used" tube could have higher readings than a completely "new" tube.


----------



## Zuckfun

tonyrs said:


> Anybody with LCD-2's here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I believe nelamvr6 has the LCD-2 and he highly praises the Amperex Orange Globes late 60's tube paired with this headphone. Hopefully he'll offer his perspective on the subject


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> I believe nelamvr6 has the LCD-2 and he highly praises the Amperex Orange Globes late 60's tube paired with this headphone. Hopefully he'll offer his perspective on the subject


 
  +1
   E188CC (7308) and E88CC (6922)  are a grade (better spec) Than ECC88.
  LCD2's like Amperex Orange Globe ECC88's 1968 and earlier.  They were made in Heerlen Holland (Netherlands) and have a small ∆ etched in the glass, followed by a single letter designating the year they were made, then the month and week code.  Look for an "O" getter (halo) at the top of the glass. I like the large "O" over the small "o"  both are beautiful.   After 1969 the getters became discs with bumps.  "dimple getters.   Nice, but I like the 60's better.   IMO  
   
Amperex 6922's were made in NY.  Usually with military markings like "USN-CEP 6922"  These are very nice but twice the price.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> I believe nelamvr6 has the LCD-2 and he highly praises the Amperex Orange Globes late 60's tube paired with this headphone. Hopefully he'll offer his perspective on the subject


 
   
   
  You are correct.
   
  I would also have high praise for the RTC E188CC valves.  And  there are other choices that pair quite well with the LCD-2s.
   
  I prefer the Amperex Orange Globes primarily for the sliky smooth, "tubey" midrange.  But if you prefer a slightly less fluid, leaner midrange the RTCs are the tubes for you.  In most other respects, I'd rate these two tubes as a push.  They both have excellent bass response, fantastic treble, and amazing soundstage, presence and air.
   
  You won't go too far wrong either way.
   
  My list of favorite tubes is as follows:
   
[size=x-small]1. Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes 1968[/size]
[size=x-small]2. RTC E188CC circa 1967[/size]
[size=x-small]3. Amperex USN 6922 D Getter 1960[/size]
[size=x-small]4. Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boy 1966[/size]
[size=x-small]5. Amperex USN-CEP 6922 '60's.[/size]
   
[size=x-small]ANY of these tubes will sound at least great with the LCD-2 headphone.  [/size]
   
[size=x-small]But bear in mind, these are my favorites, I came up with this list using my ears and my preferences with respect to sound signature.  I don't think it's very likely, but it is possible for a person to reasonably disagree with every single one of my selections.[/size]


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> +1
> E188CC (7308) and E88CC (6922)  are a grade (better spec) Than ECC88.
> LCD2's like Amperex Orange Globe ECC88's 1968 and earlier.  They were made in Heerlen Holland (Netherlands) and have a small ∆ etched in the glass, followed by a single letter designating the year they were made, then the month and week code.  Look for an "O" getter (halo) at the top of the glass. I like the large "O" over the small "o"  both are beautiful.   After 1969 the getters became discs with bumps.  "dimple getters.   Nice, but I like the 60's better.   IMO
> 
> Amperex 6922's were made in NY.  Usually with military markings like "USN-CEP 6922"  These are very nice but twice the price.


 
   
   
  I have not heard any dimple disk getter tubes, but you and I have had similar taste in most of the tubes we've both tried so far, so I trust your judgement.
   
  As for the USN-CEP 6922s, they are amazing, worth every penny!  They remind me a lot of your favorite RTC valves.  The only reason they aren't higher on my list is my yearning for that tubey midrange...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Why does the HD650 pair so well with the Amperex orange A-frames? I snagged a pair of orange PQ's on Audiogon last week and just now sitting down to enjoy them.
> 
> Killer combo, IMO


 
   
   
  Hard to explain the synergy that happens sometimes.  Best not to worry too much and just enjoy!


----------



## HK_sends

If anybody wants a set of the La Radiotechnique RTC E188CC (Herleen Holland) tubes with ultra low mileage (10 hours) on them, I have a set I am willing to part with.
  Just PM me.
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111037665429?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - That would be #2 on nelamvr6's list...


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You are correct.
> 
> I would also have high praise for the RTC E188CC valves.  And  there are other choices that pair quite well with the LCD-2s.
> 
> ...


 
  Yea.
  What he said !


----------



## NightFlight

Well the Voshkods have been under re-evaluation with the assertion that more time is required. I created a 38Ohm dummy load and so far they have around 48hrs on low resistance.  For the record, endlessly repeating some "Tracy Chapman".  In fact, track #5 is what threw me off the Voshkod. The bass line is perhaps a bit overblown in the original recording.  Now in my defense a bass line is the most easily identifiable section of a track. A audiophile you could say is born or drawn through bass and evolves from it. So after a point in said development, if the bass suffers, they may dismiss the rest.
   
  So in additional 48hrs I found the base tightened up significantly. But it was still overblown. By my calculations my NOS Voshkod only had ~100hrs on them.
   
  To check, I swapped the Siemens back in. I have to say that... RB one of the following is true. One of us is in denial or the Voshkod take another 100hrs to _*flourish*_.  As the commander said that the beginning of the 5th element "I have a doubt".
   
  I'm going to give them another 100hrs and then compare again. But I tell you the Siemens Cca didn't need any break in time. They just did what they do right off the hop....and then they just got better and.... better and better.  The fact that I picked up my pair for $240 means steals can be had.
   
  Putting another 100hrs on them is going to be tough because this equates to a good week of withdrawl.


----------



## Lord Soth

argo duck said:


> That's interesting LS. Do you think the higher reading after the start of use could be the tube settling and reaching optimum performance., i.e. _burning in_?
> 
> Or just coincidence?
> 
> Btw, great info as usual.




Yes. This is "burn-in" for tubes.

Those R&D folks in tube mfg companies during the golden era of tubes have plotted out a mA (vertical axis) vs length of use in hrs ( horizontal axis).

 Xxx
 X. X
 X X
X. X
 X
 X

Every tube from little preamp tubes (ecc88) to the big output EL34 tubes show the same characteristic.

Hence a properly matched pair of tubes needs warmup time to settle down, i.e. mA is stable, before you can conclude that the tubes are matched.


----------



## Lord Soth

Whoops !

I was trying to draw a diagram showing an ^ shape in the above post!


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> A audiophile you could say is born or drawn through bass and evolves from it. So after a point in said development, if the bass suffers, they may dismiss the rest.


 
  I was drawn through treble, detail and clarity but funnily enough ended up evolving to bass or colouration - i often do things backwards though !


----------



## Alexnova

Thanks for posting about the amps to use on the LCD2. I will be getting those headphones soon.

With that being said, what are the best tubes for the HE-500s? I also have a Schiit Lyr.


----------



## OmsJtmz32

Whats the meaning of silk screen condition? The higher the better?


----------



## Cakensaur

Can anyone name some reasonably priced dark sounding tubes?
  I Will be running some T1's with a Lyr and i would like something that takes away a small bit of treble energy.
   
  thanks.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





cakensaur said:


> Can anyone name some reasonably priced dark sounding tubes?
> I Will be running some T1's with a Lyr and i would like something that takes away a small bit of treble energy.
> 
> thanks.


 

 Mullard CV2492 or CV2493 is a great choice. It seems to tame the top edge while still providing a silky smooth midrange and very nice, tight bass.
   
  That Mullard also has nice energy in the lower mids, which mates very well with my HE500's, to my ears.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





omsjtmz32 said:


> Whats the meaning of silk screen condition? The higher the better?


 

 That's simply a description of how much printing is left on the tube. The paint used in the '50-70's became chalky over time and is easily rubbed off, unless carefully handled.
   
  Doesn't affect the sound quality in any way.


----------



## OmsJtmz32

Hehe, just ordered a pair of orange globes from mercedesman


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





omsjtmz32 said:


> Hehe, just ordered a pair of orange globes from mercedesman


 

 Congrats! A great tube from a great seller.


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Thanks for posting about the amps to use on the LCD2. I will be getting those headphones soon.
> 
> With that being said, what are the best tubes for the HE-500s? I also have a Schiit Lyr.


 
   
  Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 are the best tubes I've heard so far for the HE-500.
   
  ckc


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





cakensaur said:


> Can anyone name some reasonably priced dark sounding tubes?
> I Will be running some T1's with a Lyr and i would like something that takes away a small bit of treble energy.
> 
> thanks.


 
   
  Try Bugle Boys with Large O or D getters. They pair well with T1 and won't break the bank.
   
  ckc


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Well the Voshkods have been under re-evaluation with the assertion that more time is required. I created a 38Ohm dummy load and so far they have around 48hrs on low resistance. .....


 
I'm glad you brought this up because I just learned about it.
   
   


> This might be helpful.





> This is from the designer of the 300B valve amp I built...   "Always have headphones connected when the amp is on. Without a load, you can actually destroy the output transformers.  Some people put a large resistor (560 ohm, 2 W would probably work fine in your case)"





>





> A Lyr does not have OPTs, (It's solid state) so it may not apply.  I used a 60Ω resistor to match my LCD2's.  If anyone would like such a plug, I'd be happy to make them for parts and postage.  Parts would be under $10.  It depends on the plug.  I'm sure there are inexpensive ones for $5 or so, the resistors are pennies.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 are the best tubes I've heard so far for the HE-500.
> 
> ckc


 

 I totally agree. But since the Lorenz Stutts are unobtainium, I have found that BB D-getters are really not too far behind...only lacking slightly in bass extension. Keep in mind that's in MY audio chain.
   
  To my ears, there's a big difference in instrument separation between the BB D-getters and large halos, and that's comparing '59s and '62s. I haven't heard BB's from any other year.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 are the best tubes I've heard so far for the HE-500.
> 
> ckc


 
   
  Quote: 





oldskool said:


> I totally agree. But since the Lorenz Stutts are unobtainium, I have found that BB D-getters are really not too far behind...only lacking slightly in bass extension. Keep in mind that's in MY audio chain.
> 
> To my ears, there's a big difference in instrument separation between the BB D-getters and large halos, and that's comparing '59s and '62s. I haven't heard BB's from any other year.


 
  Hurry here:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PCC88-7DJ8-ECC88-6DJ8-SUBS-VINTAGE-LORENZ-STRONG-/190858455235?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c700ce8c3
   
  Good Luck!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - No, I am actually _*not*_ bidding on these...  Believe it or not, I am very happy with the Mullard 4109s...


----------



## Alexnova

I saw that eBay auction also, I guarantee that price isn't going to be that low pretty soon.
   
  I just bought the Amperex Philips 6DJ8 ECC88, which are the exact same model as the Orange Globes but with Philips logo on it. I'm super excited. I've been looking for a bit more of a bass slam than the stock tubes I got from Schiit.
   
  I'm just worried I'm going to get addicted to buying tubes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Since these tubes are so old, how many hours will I be able to use them for?
   
  EDIT: LOL as soon as I made this comment it's now up to 53 bucks.


----------



## Junior mints

Yeah I don't plan on being the winner, but I'm not going down without a fight!


----------



## Alexnova

Well if you are going to bid on it, then I won't. Good luck!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Well if you are going to bid on it, then I won't. Good luck!


 
Oh, the Skulduggery on this thread 




   
  Also.  Only "Orange Globes" are orange globes.
  They are different than the Philips Label.   IMO
   
  You want 1960's OG's  Might take a bit to find, might cost another $20-$30.
  Pay it.


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Oh, the Skulduggery one this thread


 




   
  But seriously I won't bid. I got a Bifrost and new headphone cables to buy.


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Oh, the Skulduggery on this thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 According to mercedesman6572:
   
  These tube are the EXACT same tubes as the highly sought after ORANGE GLOBE models made by Amperex. They were made in the same factory by the same workers, but labeled for the Philips corporation. 
   
  Also I got them at a pretty good discount, too.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> But seriously I won't bid. I got a Bifrost and new headphone cables to buy.


 
  See my edit.....
   
  IMO
  Then wait for the time when you can buy the OG's.
   
  IMO
  Rather than getting some "maybe sorta sounds ok".  Wait.
  That way you will have listened to the stock glass for some time and will appreciate the change more.
   
  Last IMO.
  Buy the glass before the HP cable.  You will notice a much bigger difference.


----------



## Alexnova

So should I just cancel the order and get the orange globes then?
   
  I can get the OG from '68...


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> According to mercedesman6572:
> 
> These tube are the EXACT same tubes as the highly sought after ORANGE GLOBE models made by Amperex. They were made in the same factory by the same workers, but labeled for the Philips corporation.
> 
> Also I got them at a pretty good discount, too.


 
  Just wanted to make sure you see this post.
   
  What do you think?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Just wanted to make sure you see this post.
> 
> What do you think?


 
  I've purchased a good chunk of glass from Ron.
  If he says they are the same, then they are the same.
   
  I know they are both ECC88's and they were both made in Heerlen Holland..... (Oskari, It was Holland in 1968)
   
  I'm a brand bigot.
  Get the 68 OG's
  Slam Dunk.   Ask nelrm6   
   
  EDIT....
  Only if the OG's are from mercedesman.   
  He has the best valve guarantee going.


----------



## sceleratus

For a Very First purchase.  Go with Ron.
  He will take care of you if anything is wrong.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





benchmarkgrado said:


> Dear Tube Rolling Brethren,
> 
> What parameters are compared to deem a set of tubes a matched pair?
> 
> ...


 

 The sections should match to at least within 10%, 5% is considered 'Select', on both sections of each tube and across tubes.  It's almost impossible to get 100% matching tubes, especially on the NOS tubes.
   
  Best to own a calibrated tube tester to be sure you're getting what you pd for.


----------



## Alexnova

Well ok, I sent Ron a message asking if I can cancel the other order. I just went in and got the OG too.
   
  Here's the statitiscs between both:

  MANUFACTURER:                           
    AMPEREX
  PRODUCTION CITY:                                 
 *   HERLEEN NERTHERLANDS*  TUBE TYPE:
     6DJ8
  DESIGNATION:                                          
    PHILIPS LABELED PREAMP TUBE  YEAR:
     1969
  MONTH:
    MAY  Date code match
      YES
  SILK SCREEN CONDITION %:                
      100%
  MICA:
      2
  PLATES:
     GREY
  GM %
    124%, 124% AND 124%125%
  SINGLE/PAIR/QUAD/MULTI:
     PAIR
  GETTER:                                                      
     DIMPLE  GETTER
  DATE CODE                                               
    DELTA 9 E 3
   

  MANUFACTURER:                           
     AMPEREX
  PRODUCTION CITY:                                 
     HERLEEN
  TUBE TYPE:
     6DJ8 ECC88
  DESIGNATION:                                          
     ORANGE GLOBE
  YEAR:
     1968
  MONTH:
      FEB AND MARCH
  Date code match
     WITHIN ONE MONTH
  SILK SCREEN CONDITION %:                
     80%
  MICA:
    2  PLATES:
   GREY  GM %:
    116%, 118% AND 117%, 115%  SINGLE/PAIR/QUAD/MULTI:
      PAIR
  GETTER:                                                      
     O GETTER
  DATE CODE                                               
      DELTA 8 B3 AND DELTA 8 C 2


----------



## rb2013

Everyone waiting for their Voshkods, they have been cleaned, packed and will ship Monday.  Thank you for your patience!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Well ok, I sent Ron a message asking if I can cancel the other order. I just went in and got the OG too.
> 
> Here's the statitiscs between both:
> 
> ...


 
  Hold out until Ron has "O" getters.  A much bigger voice than dimple getters.
  That is worth the wait.
  Might be an extra $20


----------



## Alexnova

Ok the OG's have the O Getters, just stick with that?


----------



## sceleratus

"Winner, winner, chicken dinner"


----------



## Alexnova

Ok thanks man. I sent Ron like 3 messages haha. I told him I will need to cancel the Philips tube.
   
  So how many hours you think I will be able to use on these tubes, sceleratus?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Ok thanks man. I sent Ron like 3 messages haha. I told him I will need to cancel the Philips tube.
> 
> So how many hours you think I will be able to use on these tubes, sceleratus?


 
  If they are NOS I would say 5,000 to 7,000 hours.
  There isn't a "Life" spec on the ECC88
  However there is a "Life" spec for 6922 / 7308.  That value is 10,000 hours
  SInce those are the same construction with tighter tolerances for military use I'm guessing 5-7K hours.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Well the Voshkods have been under re-evaluation with the assertion that more time is required. I created a 38Ohm dummy load and so far they have around 48hrs on low resistance.  For the record, endlessly repeating some "Tracy Chapman".  In fact, track #5 is what threw me off the Voshkod. The bass line is perhaps a bit overblown in the original recording.  Now in my defense a bass line is the most easily identifiable section of a track. A audiophile you could say is born or drawn through bass and evolves from it. So after a point in said development, if the bass suffers, they may dismiss the rest.
> 
> So in additional 48hrs I found the base tightened up significantly. But it was still overblown. By my calculations my NOS Voshkod only had ~100hrs on them.
> 
> ...


 
  Good to hear your impressions.  Of course you did hear an improvement with additional play.  The Voshkod will never beat the CCa gray plates, the CCa you bought were most likely used so were already broken-in when you got them. 
   
  $250 for S&H Matched CCa Gray Shields?  These Silver shields just sold for $325 on Ebay.  The Silver shields are not nearly as good as the grays:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-Halske-Cca-Tubes-6922-E88CC-7308-Germany-Vintage-1960s-Gold-Pins-/360624711075?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53f6e865a3&nma=true&si=NYFC5gcv%252F2fjo6YXHg%252FjGi2zwqA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
   
  What are you using for a DAC?  I'm running an APL NWO in one system and a Xindak DC-5 in my other.  Tubed DACs - in fact any DAC will make a difference.
  The APL is a ridiculous unit with 20 AKM 32bits DAC chip per channel.  http://www.aplhifi.com/index.php?op=digital_NWO_M.
   
  I don't have the newest version but an older one, pretty close.  This is a $20,000 DAC when I bought it.  It is very detailed and musical.  I'm using a pair of Supra Sword IC from the DAC to the Lyr and Woo.
   
  The Voshkods you have are newer versions I believe 1983?  I have the 1979s and they are magical!   As I said, I compared them extensively to the Amperex Orange PQ and the Philips SQ Holland Halo Getters and on my system they are clearly better!  And that was the 1980s Silver shields.  The 1979s Silver shields are better.
   
  I have been scouring the E-bay Russian and Ukraine dealer for more Silver shields - none to be found so far.  I have some 1975 grays coming and 1967 Reflector Rockets.
   
  If anyone wants my Philips SQ Holland Halo Getters they're for sale - they go for $350 on Brent Jesse's site - I'm selling mine for $150 1960s date codes PM if interested.  They'll go up on Audiogon this week.  The Voshkods are too good.  I have the SELs PCC88 coming, so I'll give them a listen.
   
  I'm liking this headphone thing (wife does come running downstairs to tell me to turn down the volume when I crank it up!)   I will probably be selling the WA6-SE and be buying a Woo Audio WA-5LE or if I can scratch together the funds the Manley Neo-Classic 300B and be done with it.  I do believe the 300B is the ultimate Headphone tube...then the tube rolling begins all over again!!  I'll keep the Lyr as a portable system for travel.  The Manley takes a 6SL7GT and the Woo WA-5 6SN7, so I don't want to go over board on the 6922s.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello everyone.
   
  I have a serious question for everyone.
   
  How hard is installing Uber board for Bifrost?  I have some technology experience but not expert.
   
  Thanks


----------



## rb2013

```
[color=#ff0000][size=6][b]The Best Sounding CCa=6922 ever made[/b][/size][/color] TOP 5: ----- 1) CCa Siemens & Halske 1950's "U" getter halo and 1960's "O" getter halo "Rarest and most sought after CCa, has "gray shield" between plates, Most realistic sounding holographic soundstage, pure seductive sonic joy, complex symphonic images emerge effortlessly" 2) CCa Telefunken West Germany 1960's "excellent neutral holographic soundstage, vast vocabulary of tone establishes remarkable layers of harmonics, very rare" 3) CCa Siemens & Halske A-FRAME construction late 1960's - early 1970's "beautiful open air holographic images, low microphonic tube construction, rare" 4) CCa LORENZ West Germany early 1960's "beautiful open air holographic images, very rare" 5) CCa VALVO Heerlen Holland 1960's "real sonic holography, extremely rare" 6) CCa Siemens Rohre A-Frame early 1973-1974 (in stock, silver shield)
```


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I have a serious question for everyone.
> 
> ...


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/45
   
  Here's the upgrade thread where we had photos and instruction on DIY mod.
  If you are methodical and can handle a screw driver, you can do it.
   
  Read pages 4 - 7 about


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> I saw that eBay auction also, I guarantee that price isn't going to be that low pretty soon.
> 
> I just bought the Amperex Philips 6DJ8 ECC88, which are the exact same model as the Orange Globes but with Philips logo on it. I'm super excited. I've been looking for a bit more of a bass slam than the stock tubes I got from Schiit.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Orange Globes are Orange Globes, Bugle Boys are Bugle Boys, S&H CCa are S&H CCa, etc.
   
  There are certain tubes that have a certain magic to them, for some reason the planets aligned and they sound fantastic. 
   
  Even though the tubes you bought have the exact same tooling and were made by the same company, they aren't Orange Globes.
   
  I hope you got lucky and got good tubes, it wouldn't be the first time.  But if you really want Orange Globes you have to buy Orange Globes.


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Orange Globes are Orange Globes, Bugle Boys are Bugle Boys, S&H CCa are S&H CCa, etc.
> 
> There are certain tubes that have a certain magic to them, for some reason the planets aligned and they sound fantastic.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah I just bought the OG and sent an email to cancel my order of the Philips.
   
  I appreicate you recommending them also.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I've purchased a good chunk of glass from Ron.
> If he says they are the same, then they are the same.
> 
> I know they are both ECC88's and they were both made in Heerlen Holland..... (Oskari, It was Holland in 1968)
> ...


 
  Mercedesman is a great guy to deal with.  If the tubes he says are the same are cheap enough, they may be worth the risk.
   
  But IMHO it's not enough to be made at the same factory by the same workers.
   
  I've said it before, even the guys making the tubes didn't know exactly why certain tubes had that magic, otherwise they would make them consistently.
   
  Some tubes have magic, some don't.  I don't want to imply that voodoo or some supernatural force is involved in their making, but some tubes have a synergy that makes them exceptional.
   
  But I believe there are other sources of Orange Globes, Mercedesman does seem to have a lot of them, but they have not gotten to the point where they're as rare as the Siemens & Halske CCa's.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> If they are NOS I would say 5,000 to 7,000 hours.
> There isn't a "Life" spec on the ECC88
> However there is a "Life" spec for 6922 / 7308.  That value is 10,000 hours
> SInce those are the same construction with tighter tolerances for military use I'm guessing 5-7K hours.


 
   
  This is why when I find a tube I love I try to get a "safety" pair, so if /when they die I'll be able to replace them.
   
  None of these tubes are getting less rare...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Yeah I just bought the OG and sent an email to cancel my order of the Philips.
> 
> I appreicate you recommending them also.


 
   
   
  Cool! I look forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## OmsJtmz32

Is there any difference in the year 1968,1967,1970 for the orange globes? As they are all priced the same


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





omsjtmz32 said:


> Is there any difference in the year 1968,1967,1970 for the orange globes? As they are all priced the same


 
   
  To me the older ones sounded better.
   
  ckc


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





omsjtmz32 said:


> Is there any difference in the year 1968,1967,1970 for the orange globes? As they are all priced the same


 

 Typically, the older the better. I would stick with the '67s and '68s with the halo getter.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/45
> 
> Here's the upgrade thread where we had photos and instruction on DIY mod.
> If you are methodical and can handle a screw driver, you can do it.
> ...


 
  Thank you sure


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Mercedesman is a great guy to deal with.  If the tubes he says are the same are cheap enough, they may be worth the risk.
> 
> But IMHO it's not enough to be made at the same factory by the same workers.
> 
> ...


 
  I was really waffling on this whole  OG / Philips thing.  Ronnie is the man.... But
  I believe in the magic troll dust too
  OG's baby.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Yeah I just bought the OG and sent an email to cancel my order of the Philips.
> 
> I appreicate you recommending them also.


 
  @nelamvr6
  he takes this Schiiit seriously.
  a good opinion to listen to.
   
   
  EDIT...
  There are a lot of knowledgable folks on this thread that are worth listening to.
  A really great bunch.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





omsjtmz32 said:


> Is there any difference in the year 1968,1967,1970 for the orange globes? As they are all priced the same


 
   
A big +1 for 1967's on down.   I just saw today that there are some 1968 dimple getters. I thought 1969 was the first year.  You don't want those.
"O" getters will deliver the sound you seek.
   
When you really get hard core you'll be buying 1958 "D" getters.
   
It is so counter intuitive that 50 year old electronics can sound better than something made today.
Believe It.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> A big +1 for 1967's on down.   I just saw today that there are some 1968 dimple getters. I thought 1969 was the first year.  You don't want those.
> "O" getters will deliver the sound you seek.
> 
> When you really get hard core you'll be buying 1958 "D" getters.
> ...


 

 My '68 OG are halos, same as my '67s. Never saw a '68 dimple getter.
   
  +1 on buying D-getters. They just sound better, IMO.


----------



## OmsJtmz32

But..mercs OG 1967 are O getters and his 1970 are also O getters. Arent the 1967 supposed to be halo getters?


----------



## NightFlight

sceleratus said:


> I'm glad you brought this up because I just learned about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This is different. I'm just using a dummy load for burn in.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I was really waffling on this whole  OG / Philips thing.  Ronnie is the man.... But
> I believe in the magic troll dust too
> OG's baby.


 
  Don't forget your RTCs, they have the magic for sure!


----------



## nelamvr6

It should probably be mentioned that generally speaking the type of getter is used to describe different tubes, but there's no reason to believe that the type of getter is responsible for the fantastic sound that special tubes have.
   
  Of course, it is possible that the getters do in fact have a part in creating the magic, it would be hard to say.
   
  But when we talk about, for example,  O getters being better than dimple disc getters, we're talking about a reliable way to differentiate between tubes.
   
  The purpose of the getter is to enhance the vacuum inside the glass tube.  They are "fired" during initial manufacture. 
   
  Sometimes we forget that a lot of guys come into this thread with no prior knowledge of tubes, and we get into the habit of using terms that may be confusing.


----------



## Zuckfun

Picked up a pair of 67 OG from mercedesman, looking forward to hearing these great tubes. Maybe soon I'll hear the USN tubes (when I'm ready to spend the $) though perhaps the OG's are endgame tubes. Thanks for the tips


----------



## Alexnova

nelamvr6 said:


> Cool! I look forward to hearing your impressions.



 
 Well I'm not sure it's going to be fair to give impressions on them since I don't have the Bifrost Uber DAC yet. You'll have to tell me what you think of the Audeze LCD-2 sometime because that may be my next headphone purchase. If it ain't that big of an upgrade from my HE-500 then I might not get it. I know you said the OG's are a great match for the LCD-2 but I would think it would work just as well with the HE-500. I'm waiting on buying another cable to see if changing the tubes gives me the sound signature I want. Although I would much prefer buying Canare cables than using these silver cables from HiFiman.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Well I'm not sure it's going to be fair to give impressions on them since I don't have the Bifrost Uber DAC yet.You'll have to tell me what you think of the Audeze LCD-2 sometime because that may be my next headphone purchase. If it ain't that big of an upgrade from my HE-500 then I might not get it. I know you said the OG's are a great match for the LCD-2 but I would think it would work just as well with the HE-500.I'm waiting on buying another cable to see if changing the tubes gives me the sound signature I want. Although I would much prefer buying Canare cables than using these silver cables from HiFiman.


 
   
  I've never heard the HE-500, but I can say that I absolutely love my LCD-2.2s.
   
  I believe that the OGs will probably sound at least great no matter which headphone you pair them with, but I've primarily tried my LCD-2.2s and my 600 ohm DT-880s.  And, to be honest, I haven't spent much time listening to the DT-880s since the LCD-2.2s arrived.
   
  I can say that the OGs also sounded great with my Alessandro MS-2, and I even tried them for a few minutes with my Westone IEMs.  I didn't spend a lot of time with the IEMs, it was just a lark really, but they didn't sound bad.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





omsjtmz32 said:


> But..mercs OG 1967 are O getters and his 1970 are also O getters. Arent the 1967 supposed to be halo getters?


 
   
  ... and aren't O, o and Halo the same thing?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> It should probably be mentioned that generally speaking the type of getter is used to describe different tubes, but there's no reason to believe that the type of getter is responsible for the fantastic sound that special tubes have.
> 
> Of course, it is possible that the getters do in fact have a part in creating the magic, it would be hard to say.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, you can see the Mullard getters being fired off at the end of the video I mentioned a few days ago... I've always wanted to see that.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Also.  Only "Orange Globes" are orange globes.
> They are different than the Philips Label.   IMO


 
   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> There are certain tubes that have a certain magic to them, for some reason the planets aligned and they sound fantastic.
> 
> Even though the tubes you bought have the exact same tooling and were made by the same company, they aren't Orange Globes.


 
   
  Quote:


sceleratus said:


> I was really waffling on this whole  OG / Philips thing.  Ronnie is the man.... But
> I believe in the magic troll dust too
> OG's baby.


 
   
  You two are beyond all hope.


----------



## Alexnova

Oskari, are you saying they are BSing here?


----------



## Oskari

A particular print on a tube doesn't change the way it sounds in any way.


----------



## Alexnova

oskari said:


> A particular print on a tube doesn't change the way it sounds in any way.



 
 What about the dimple and O getter difference?


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> What about the dimple and O getter difference?


 
   
  I have no definite answer but here we at least have a reason to believe that there _could _be a difference in sound. It could be a difference based on vintage, not the getter per se, though.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oskari said:


> You two are beyond all hope.


 
   
  Indeed beyond All Hope.
  Remember, as I've said in the past, I am merely a Dufus on a forum expressing my Opinion.
  I do not have the credentials to post an Authoritative Answer.
   
  EDIT:
  If amperes orange globes were made at a Sinclair station in Ashtabula, Ohio in 1965, I'd still like them.


----------



## Zuckfun

sceleratus said:


> If amperex orange globes were made at a Sinclair station in Ashtabula, Ohio in 1965, I'd still like them.


 Ah, the famed Sinclair Ashtabula Orangies, great find indeed.


----------



## Sanlitun

alexnova said:


> Well I'm not sure it's going to be fair to give impressions on them since I don't have the Bifrost Uber DAC yet.You'll have to tell me what you think of the Audeze LCD-2 sometime because that may be my next headphone purchase. If it ain't that big of an upgrade from my HE-500 then I might not get it. I know you said the OG's are a great match for the LCD-2 but I would think it would work just as well with the HE-500.I'm waiting on buying another cable to see if changing the tubes gives me the sound signature I want. Although I would much prefer buying Canare cables than using these silver cables from HiFiman.




I am an HE-500 user as well and have tried the LCD-2 with its stock cables and had figured it was not really an upgrade for me and in fact I prefer the treble and air on the HE-500.

If I'm going to do anything I suppose I might try to re-cable my HE-500's and my interconnects. In fact I have ordered Blue Jeans interconnects as I find there is a bit of grain in the Pyst cables.

Other than that it's a matter of saving up for LCD-3 or HE-6.


----------



## sceleratus

zuckfun said:


> Ah, the famed Sinclair Ashtabula Orangies, great find indeed.



"Oh ya, Don't cha know".


----------



## sceleratus

oskari said:


> You two are beyond all hope.




My pops couldn't spell Hurlen either. But that didn't stop him from liberating it.


----------



## Alexnova

sanlitun said:


> I am an HE-500 user as well and have tried the LCD-2 with its stock cables and had figured it was not really an upgrade for me and in fact I prefer the treble and air on the HE-500.
> 
> If I'm going to do anything I suppose I might try to re-cable my HE-500's and my interconnects. In fact I have ordered Blue Jeans interconnects as I find there is a bit of grain in the Pyst cables.
> 
> Other than that it's a matter of saving up for LCD-3 or HE-6.



 
 Cool, yeah I was thinking that was the case. I was contemplating selling my HE-500s for the LCD-2s but decided against it. I actually do love the HE-500 but wish I could try out the LCD-2s, and the HE-6s and LCD-3. I like the planar magnetic phones a lot.

 As far as the Blue Jeans Cables are concerned, I just picked up the BJC LC-1 at 5 feet (stereo cables) and they are fantastic.

 I also got the Belden 1694A digital coaxial cable for when I purchase the Schiit Bifrost, so I can't say how it is yet. Someone on this board went through a lot of different sizes from 3 feet all the way up to 50 IIRC. He said 18 feet sounded the best so that's what I got. 

 But I highly recommend checking out those BJC LC-1. If it helps any, I had a Radioshack branded stereo cable that I bought for 6 bucks and there was an amazing audible difference between the two.

 I would hope other HE-500 users would chime in on the OG's, but I guess I'll throw up my impressions once I get the Bifrost.


----------



## Radioking59

I have the 68 OGs, HE-500 and Uber Bifrost. I have only compared them to stock GEs though so I'm not much help. The combo sounds great and is end game for me.  They are much better than the GEs.


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Cool, yeah I was thinking that was the case. I was contemplating selling my HE-500s for the LCD-2s but decided against it. I actually do love the HE-500 but wish I could try out the LCD-2s, and the HE-6s and LCD-3. I like the planar magnetic phones a lot.
> 
> As far as the Blue Jeans Cables are concerned, I just picked up the BJC LC-1 at 5 feet (stereo cables) and they are fantastic.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The LCD-2 was too similar to the HE-500 when I compared them last year. I ended up keeping the HE-500 because it was a better value. As for the Orange Globes, I didn't like them on the HE-500 because the female vocal presentation was too forward (in my face) for my taste. It just didn't sound natural. Some may prefer it though.
   
  ckc


----------



## Zuckfun

So I ordered the 67 OG, and nelamvr6 recommends the 68. My lack of attention to the details strikes again. Here's to hoping the 67 version sounds just as great as the 68.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oskari said:


> A particular print on a tube doesn't change the way it sounds in any way.


 
   
  And I'm not suggesting for a second that it does.
   
  But I am suggesting that OGs are really good tubes.  And if someone could guarantee 100% for certain that a particular tube was in fact the same exact tube with different printing on it, I'd want to buy that tube.  Especially since it would likely be a lot cheaper than an OG.
   
  But there was so much cross branding going on back in the day that it can be very difficult to say for certain that the tubes in question are identical. A lot of tooling and parts were shared among different factories.  And it's difficult to say for certain exactly what it is about a certain tube that gives it that special quality.  So if only one thing about the manufacture of a tube model was changed, the coating on the anode changed slightly for example, or the spacing on a grid, it becomes impossible to tell without actually listening if that tube will have the qualities you're seeking.
   
  And that's before you add the wrinkle of money.  As in, there are a lot of people out there who are aware that certain tubes are more desirable than others.  So they'll be willing to make all sorts of claims that are dubious, and even willing to make counterfeit tubes.
   
  That's why I say if you want OGs, or Bugle Boys, or RTCs, or Seimens Halske CCa's, or Stuttgart Lorenz, or whatever, you're really a lot better off actually buying the tube you're looking for.
   
  Please advise me if I've said anything that's incorrect, I'm always grateful to learn.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> So I ordered the 67 OG, and nelamvr6 recommends the 68. My lack of attention to the details strikes again. Here's to hoping the 67 version sounds just as great as the 68.


 
   
  I would be willing to bet that the OGs you get will be great, but at this point the best thing to do is wait until you get them, burn them in for a bit, then listen.


----------



## nelamvr6

I guess it's a good time to post this:
   
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
   
  A lot of great info in that thread, and we really should re-post it every so often.
   
  Bear in mind, this list, and just about any list that is posted here or anywhere else, is a person'n opinions.  All the usual caveats apply.  
   
  But this particular list has served me well.


----------



## Zuckfun

nelamvr6 said:


> I guess it's a good time to post this:
> 
> http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the link...It's Joe's description of the OG's as a "killer tube" that was the tipping point for me.


----------



## OldSkool

ckc527 said:


> The LCD-2 was too similar to the HE-500 when I compared them last year. I ended up keeping the HE-500 because it was a better value. As for the Orange Globes, I didn't like them on the HE-500 because the female vocal presentation was too forward (in my face) for my taste. It just didn't sound natural. Some may prefer it though.
> 
> ckc




Bingo. The forward mids of the Orange Globe is exactly why I prefer my tubes a bit more laid back with the HE500. The Mullard CV2493 and Bugle Boys are what I usually roll in.


----------



## CraftyClown

Quick question guys. I was once told you should warm tubes up for at least half an hour, preferably an hour or more before a good listening session. I always adhere to this and I was just curious if everyone was the same?


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Quick question guys. I was once told you should warm tubes up for at least half an hour, preferably an hour or more before a good listening session. I always adhere to this and I was just curious if everyone was the same?


 
  I would like to know this as well.

 Although I'm pretty sure the tubes would need to be warmed up to get the full sound.


----------



## Zuckfun

craftyclown said:


> Quick question guys. I was once told you should warm tubes up for at least half an hour, preferably an hour or more before a good listening session. I always adhere to this and I was just curious if everyone was the same?


 15-20 minutes should be enough time for the amp/tubes to warm up to optimal conditions.


----------



## mhamel

The key is the factory/date code.   Some pretty knowledgeable tube experts out there have stated it over and over - if they are the same type, with the same factory/date codes, they are the same tube, regardless of the label.  You can see examples of it all through Brent Jesse's listings, I believe it's also mentioned on Tube World, Upscale Audio mentions it with their Amperex 7308s.
   
  Different factories, wide date ranges, different getters - indeed all possible (and likely, imo) to have some sonic differences.
   
     -Mike
   
   
   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> But there was so much cross branding going on back in the day that it can be very difficult to say for certain that the tubes in question are identical. A lot of tooling and parts were shared among different factories.  And it's difficult to say for certain exactly what it is about a certain tube that gives it that special quality.  So if only one thing about the manufacture of a tube model was changed, the coating on the anode changed slightly for example, or the spacing on a grid, it becomes impossible to tell without actually listening if that tube will have the qualities you're seeking.


----------



## nelamvr6

I give my tubes at least 10 minutes, but I prefer to give them half an hour.  I personally don't think they need more than 30 minutes, but I understand that there are those who disagree.
   
  And if I don't have 30 minutes, it doesn't bother me especially to start listening after only 10.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> The key is the factory/date code.   Some pretty knowledgeable tube experts out there have stated it over and over - if they are the same type, with the same factory/date codes, they are the same tube, regardless of the label.  You can see examples of it all through Brent Jesse's listings, I believe it's also mentioned on Tube World, Upscale Audio mentions it with their Amperex 7308s.
> 
> Different factories, wide date ranges, different getters - indeed all possible (and likely, imo) to have some sonic differences.
> 
> -Mike


 
   
  You are of course correct.
   
  I have tried to decipher the date codes, and I'm usually able to at least get a pretty good idea.
   
  Personally I've never come across tubes with the same factory/date code and different branding.
   
  I suppose that Brent Jessie and Mercedesman have much better chances of seeing this, they see hundreds of tubes, I only see a few.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> But I am suggesting that OGs are really good tubes.  And if someone could guarantee 100% for certain that a particular tube was in fact the same exact tube with different printing on it, I'd want to buy that tube.  Especially since it would likely be a lot cheaper than an OG.


 
   
  And I'm suggesting that the Philips tube plant in Heerlen didn't have separate lines (a) and (b) churning out tubes to be branded (a) Amperex and (b) all the rest.
   


> But there was so much cross branding going on back in the day that it can be very difficult to say for certain that the tubes in question are identical. A lot of tooling and parts were shared among different factories.  And it's difficult to say for certain exactly what it is about a certain tube that gives it that special quality.  So if only one thing about the manufacture of a tube model was changed, the coating on the anode changed slightly for example, or the spacing on a grid, it becomes impossible to tell without actually listening if that tube will have the qualities you're seeking.


 
   
  How exactly would an Amperex-branded tube be immune to all this?
   


> And that's before you add the wrinkle of money.  As in, there are a lot of people out there who are aware that certain tubes are more desirable than others.  So they'll be willing to make all sorts of claims that are dubious, and even willing to make counterfeit tubes.


 
   
  Ditto.
   


> That's why I say if you want OGs, or Bugle Boys, or RTCs, or Seimens Halske CCa's, or Stuttgart Lorenz, or whatever, you're really a lot better off actually buying the tube you're looking for.


 
   
  A brand, whatever brand, never guarantees anything. You need to know what you're buying.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





oskari said:


> It also helps if you recognize the Heerlen factory code ◿ visible in the photo.


 
   
  I'm afraid the factory code symbol in the above doesn't appear correctly on everybody's screen. It should be a right triangle.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oskari said:


> A brand, whatever brand, never guarantees anything. You need to know what you're buying.


 
   
  We agree.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> The key is the factory/date code.   Some pretty knowledgeable tube experts out there have stated it over and over - if they are the same type, with the same factory/date codes, they are the same tube, regardless of the label.  You can see examples of it all through Brent Jesse's listings, I believe it's also mentioned on Tube World, Upscale Audio mentions it with their Amperex 7308s.
> 
> Different factories, wide date ranges, different getters - indeed all possible (and likely, imo) to have some sonic differences.


 
   
  Thanks for bringing some sanity to this thread, Mike!


----------



## nelamvr6

You guys are absolutely correct. Tubes with the same model and factory/date codes will be identical.
   
  But newbs need simpler advice when they're first starting out.
   
  If they can find cheaper versions of great tubes by hunting for identical factory/date codes, that's fantastic.
   
  But when they come in to this thread and all they want is to know which tubes will sound good, and someone recommends the Mullard CV2493, they would be well advised to look for exactly that tube.
   
  They want advice, not the location of a reference manual.


----------



## TonyRS

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Where can i get the Amperex 6DJ8 1968 tubes?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tonyrs said:


> Where can i get the Amperex 6DJ8 1968 tubes?


 
  Mercedesman has a couple of pairs:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1960s-70s-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-NOS-/221229410098?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33824ce732
   
  It's not absolutely essential that you get '68's, but reports are that the O getters are better than the dimple disc getters.


----------



## joydivisi0n

Are O getter and halo getter synonymous?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





joydivisi0n said:


> Are O getter and halo getter synonymous?


 
  I'm probably the only dufus that uses "halo getter"
   
  In other words.  Yes


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I'm probably the only dufus that uses "halo getter"
> 
> In other words.  Yes


 

 I call the O-getters "halos" too, but I'm not glass-geek enough to call them "valves"


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> I call the O-getters "halos" too, but I'm not glass-geek enough to call them "valves"


 
  i resemble that remark.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I guess it's a good time to post this:
> 
> http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  This is also helpful when looking for impressions on various tubes http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm .  It also illustrates why these are just opinions to be taken as a baseline and not as an absolute.  The Tube Lore page does not like the Telefunkens, but they are a favorite of Brent Jessee's.  I decided to give the Telefunkens a try and they are among my very most favorite too. Brent's description is accurate, very neutral and detailed.


----------



## Sanlitun

alexnova said:


> As far as the Blue Jeans Cables are concerned, I just picked up the BJC LC-1 at 5 feet (stereo cables) and they are fantastic.




This is great to hear, mine should be arriving any day now. Did you own the Pyst cables previously?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





bsn said:


> This is also helpful when looking for impressions on various tubes http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm .  It also illustrates why these are just opinions to be taken as a baseline and not as an absolute.  The Tube Lore page does not like the Telefunkens, but they are a favorite of Brent Jessee's.  I decided to give the Telefunkens a try and they are among my very most favorite too. Brent's description is accurate, very neutral and detailed.


 
   
  Exactly!
   
  There are a lot of lists out there, but ultimately you will have to decide what sound you're looking for.


----------



## Alexnova

sanlitun said:


> This is great to hear, mine should be arriving any day now. Did you own the Pyst cables previously?



No I never had the Pyst cables. I was going to buy them when I get the Bifrost but I found these BJC stereo cables instead.

Wonder if your cables came from a bad batch or something.


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> I call the O-getters "halos" too, but I'm not glass-geek enough to call them "valves"


 
   
  You're not a glass-geek if you call them valves... Just English


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> You're not a glass-geek if you call them valves... Just English


 
  I prefer a colonial glass-geek. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  That said,  I'm slogging my way through "Valve Amplifiers" by Morgan Jones.  A Brit... naturally.


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I prefer a colonial glass-geek.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ok, now the fact you're slogging your way through a book called 'Valve Amplifiers' does make you a glass-geek


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Ok, now the fact you're slogging your way through a book called 'Valve Amplifiers' does make you a glass-geek


 
  I'm just past the part where I learned that a 9 pin valve goes into a 9 hole socket.


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I'm just past the part where I learned that a 9 pin valve goes into a 9 hole socket.


 
   
  lol. In my book, that makes you a certified expert


----------



## Miracles

Hey folks, new to tube rolling here. How important is tube matching? I just bought some tubes from tctubes.com where each tube was sold individually, and not in a matched pair. I forgot about this until a few minutes after I placed and confirmed my order.


----------



## sceleratus

Backup about 4-5 pages.
  There have been several discussions on match / balance through-out this monster thread.
  Luckily, there was another just a few days ago.
   
  After you read it, feel free to ask for clarification.


----------



## Miracles

Hmm I see, thanks. Wish I saw that ebay post earlier before I made my order haha. Well I guess I'll take a gamble and hope it's all good when I get them.
 Edit: I was able to get my order cancelled, and so I just ordered ones that are matched. They are coming in two weeks!


----------



## jellofund

Been a good few weeks since I checked in on this thread....did I miss much?????
   
  Looks like I have a lot of reading to do!
   
  Re. tubes or valves - I call them tubes and I'm from the right/wrong side of the pond.....although most of my education has been on here so I guess there's a bit of a US influence creeping in.
   
  Turned on my Lyr for the first time in about a month tonight and all I can say is absence makes the heart grow fonder. Lovely.  I'm also still rather smitten with those SEL Lorenz PCC88's you sent me sceleratus...they might not be considered to be the crème de la crème but I like 'em a lot


----------



## ilikepooters

Anyone else out there tried the Tesla E88CC gold pins?
  I bought a pair from this guy: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261219395120?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  I'm blown away by the sound, and not even burned in yet.
   
  I guess i like multiple sound signatures, I love the Voskhod 6N23P but these are a different animal. These strike me as transparent sounding with quite a lot of detail compared to what i've heard before, maybe the mids are slightly prominent along with the treble, but i reckon the treble will soften with burn in, has a nice sparkle atm but could do with softening a touch.
   
  Never heard such an incredible soundstage as this before, these are magic.
   
  Very happy with these, well worth the price.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You guys are absolutely correct. Tubes with the same model and factory/date codes will be identical.
> 
> But newbs need simpler advice when they're first starting out.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I might give you a "maybe" but that's not going to happen if the above is supposed to be combined with the amount of pure mysticism evident earlier:
   

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/7905#post_9553375
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/7905#post_9553400
   
  An exact date code match is in practice fantasy in most cases if the tubes aren't from a single source. The Philips date code changed weekly after all.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oskari said:


> I might give you a "maybe" but that's not going to happen if the above is supposed to be combined with the amount of pure mysticism evident earlier:
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/7905#post_9553375
> ...


 
   
  You just love to argue.  That's it, isn't it?
   
  Are you denying that certain tubes sound better than other tubes?
   
  Or are you suggesting that the people who made the great sounding tubes knew exactly what they were doing and made some tubes sound great and others sound mediocre on purpose?
   
  BTW, I mentioned several times in past posts, even in a post you referenced,  that though I use the term "magic", I'm NOT referring to any sort of mysticism.  I'm simply using shorthand to point out that there are tubes out there that have a special synergy.  Nothing more, nothing less.
   
  And I'll say it again, and this will be my last comment on the subject, I would love for newbs to use this thread as more than just an advice column, I'd love for them to actually read the thread and gain the knowledge that you and other have to offer. But there are people out there who aren't looking to earn a degree, they just want good sounding tubes.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Rolled in some new tubes (uh, sorry . . valves) tonight.

The Telefunken E88CC/6922's sounded really beautiful, until one crapped out after a couple of minutes. Hopefully the seller has more.

Next, the Voskhod 6N23P silver shields, 1979. These are some very, very nice tubes at a reasonable price. Can't listen long enough to do a complete review, but suffice it to say . . . grab some if you can. They are particularly nice in the mids and highs, and this with no burn-in. I bought 4 from a Ukrainian seller - electrikua (Protek Trading Services, Inc). - and he/she was good enough to throw in an extra tube, no charge!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

By the way, I think it's Voskhod, not Voshkod??


----------



## kothganesh

r scott ireland said:


> By the way, I think it's Voskhod, not Voshkod??



Former spelling is correct


----------



## Zuckfun

nelamvr6 said:


> I would love for newbs to use this thread as more than just an advice column, I'd love for them to actually read the thread and gain the knowledge that you and other have to offer. But there are people out there who aren't looking to earn a degree, they just want good sounding tubes.


 +1
And 3 more days until the arrival of the Orange Globes!


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I would love for newbs to use this thread as more than just an advice column, I'd love for them to actually read the thread and gain the knowledge that you and other have to offer. But there are people out there who aren't looking to earn a degree, they just want good sounding tubes.
> Cheers!


 
  Yep.
   
  And count me as one of those people because I just do not have the time to go through 530 pages. If I am really enthusiastic about the tubes, then I will put in the time and research to help others out when selecting tubes. But for now I just want to be pointed in the right direction.


----------



## NightFlight

r scott ireland said:


> By the way, I think it's Voskhod, not Voshkod??





Google says "Voshkod". Sorry all for the mixup, I was just repeating what I've read.


----------



## NightFlight

dammit.. its Voskhod... Voskhod! I think its my nexus autocorrect.


----------



## NightFlight

dammit.. its Voskhod... Voskhod! I think its my nexus autocorrect.


----------



## NightFlight

What?


----------



## Zuckfun

Up to date, out of Telefunken E88CC, Amperex Orange Label PQ, and Ediswan CV2492, the Ediswan's are my current reigning champion, by a wide margin. It must be noted, that only the Ediswan's were purchased from a very reputable vendor (not to mention these tubes are actually Brimar?). So, not only are the types of tube/year/model important, equally as important is who they're purchased from. Is a great pair of Telefunkens actually superior to Ediswan (Brimar)? Very well could be, but I wouldn't know. Live and learn and find a vendor you trust.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Up to date, out of Telefunken E88CC, Amperex Orange Label PQ, and Ediswan CV2492, the Ediswan's are my current reigning champion, by a wide margin. It must be noted, that only the Ediswan's were purchased from a very reputable vendor (not to mention these tubes are actually Brimar?). So, not only are the types of tube/year/model important, equally as important is who they're purchased from. Is a great pair of Telefunkens actually superior to Ediswan (Brimar)? Very well could be, but I wouldn't know. Live and learn and find a vendor you trust.


 
  I agree.  It's especially true if you're buying off of eBay.
   
  And even more so when you're looking for rare, specialized, and hopefully NOS tubes like we are.
   
  Buying from Brent Jessee, you may not get the absolute cheapest prices, but he's 100% reliable.  I would say the same for Mercedesman.
   
  To me, the kind of assurances you get from these guys is worth the little bit of extra money.  But I'm sure there are other good sellers out there.  That's why I'm glad we have this thread, if guys encounter good guys with good selections of tubes, they can post the info here.


----------



## Lord Soth

craftyclown said:


> Quick question guys. I was once told you should warm tubes up for at least half an hour, preferably an hour or more before a good listening session. I always adhere to this and I was just curious if everyone was the same?




The 1/2 hour requirement only applies to LARGE tubes such as the EL34.

For small preamp tubes like the ECC88, 10 mins is more than enough.


----------



## Lord Soth

oldskool said:


> I call the O-getters "halos" too, but I'm not glass-geek enough to call them "valves" :wink_face:




Either that or you are not "British" enough to do so.


----------



## Lord Soth

alexnova said:


> Yep.
> 
> And count me as one of those people because I just do not have the time to go through 530 pages. If I am really enthusiastic about the tubes, then I will put in the time and research to help others out when selecting tubes. But for now I just want to be pointed in the right direction.




For anyone new to 6DJ8 tubes, Joe's Tube lore found in Audioasylum has stood the test of time.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Rolled in some new tubes (uh, sorry . . valves) tonight.
> 
> The Telefunken E88CC/6922's sounded really beautiful, until one crapped out after a couple of minutes. Hopefully the seller has more.
> 
> Next, the Voskhod 6N23P silver shields, 1979. These are some very, very nice tubes at a reasonable price. Can't listen long enough to do a complete review, but suffice it to say . . . grab some if you can. They are particularly nice in the mids and highs, and this with no burn-in. I bought 4 from a Ukrainian seller - electrikua (Protek Trading Services, Inc). - and he/she was good enough to throw in an extra tube, no charge!


 
  R Scott Ireland - sounds like good initial impressions, I agree with your take, I'm hearing very similar things.  These 'valves' are crazy cheap, glad you could get some.
   
  Well tonight I did a fairly extensive listening test between the Voskhod (that's how the Ukraine Dealers spell it) 1979 Silver shields and the PCC88 SEL Lorentz.
   
  The SEL have lots of detail, deep and tight bass and a very wide sound stage.  But after listening to some of my tougher recordings like Florence and the Machine "Dog Days", the SELs betray a little harshness, especially on female vocals.  The Voskhod '79s are just as sweet as can be - very liquid in the mid range to upper mids - a lot like the 1960s Philips SQ Holland Halo Getters.  After about 15 minutes with the SELs I was finding the sound a little fatiguing, in contrast I can listen to the V-Rockets all night without a problem.
   
  Another thing I noticed, the VRs had a more dramatic presentation, maybe a bit more marco dynamics, it definitely adds to the fun.

   
   
  I would have to say the VR are a little darker then the SELs, which is perfect for my HD800/Moon Black Dragon V2 combination and the extremely transparent DAC I have.  And will be perfect for my new cable I'm ordering for the HD800s - the Stephan Audio Arts Endorphin.
   
  Maybe for some with Orthos they may prefer the SELs.   Also, these SELSs have only about 50 hours on them, so they could use at least another 50 hours burn-in.  I'll do that soon and update if my opinion changes.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> The 1/2 hour requirement only applies to LARGE tubes such as the EL34.
> 
> For small preamp tubes like the ECC88, 10 mins is more than enough.


 

 +1 I second that -10 minutes is fine.  But the Mosfets in the Lyr running in class A could use the 1/2 hr or more to heat up.  Transistors sound better toasty.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> For anyone new to 6DJ8 tubes, Joe's Tube lore found in Audioasylum has stood the test of time.


 
   
  I posted the link a few pages back...


----------



## hedphonz

light static tizzy background noise ? is that normal for tubes
   
  i can hear it in quiet passages and when music has stopped - cant hear it when music is playing 
   
  the lyr being my first tube amp i'm not sure if this is normal or not - dont yet have any other tubes to swap out


----------



## ckc527

hedphonz said:


> light static tizzy background noise ? is that normal for tubes
> 
> i can hear it in quiet passages and when music has stopped - cant hear it when music is playing
> 
> the lyr being my first tube amp i'm not sure if this is normal or not - dont yet have any other tubes to swap out




Try reversing the tubes and see if problem follows. 

ckc


----------



## Lord Soth

rb2013 said:


> +1 I second that -10 minutes is fine.  But the Mosfets in the Lyr running in class A could use the 1/2 hr or more to heat up.  Transistors sound better toasty.




Yes, I agree with the Solid state part.
I've heard of some Audiophiles leaving their SS audio equipment permanently in the "ON" position for over 10 years!!!

For tubes, there is also an "extreme" school of thought, of which I am not a member by the way.
Basically, the theory is that tube life is shortened by the repeated heating and cooling from turning on and off your tubes.
I believe there was a radio station which left its vacuum tube amp on for over 5 decades.
The tubes (can't recall the exact type) were still alive after such a long time.

Anyone game to try out this theory on their Schiit Lyr?
After all, if you are using Voskhods, it is not a "costly" experiment.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> light static tizzy background noise ? is that normal for tubes
> 
> i can hear it in quiet passages and when music has stopped - cant hear it when music is playing
> 
> the lyr being my first tube amp i'm not sure if this is normal or not - dont yet have any other tubes to swap out


 
  That is definitely not normal.  What tubes are you running?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Yes, I agree with the Solid state part.
> I've heard of some Audiophiles leaving their SS audio equipment permanently in the "ON" position for over 10 years!!!
> 
> For tubes, there is also an "extreme" school of thought, of which I am not a member by the way.
> ...


 
  No thanks!  
   
  I have been down this road with computers. There was a school of thought that believed that the rush of current when first energizing a computer was worse for the life of the components that the steady state current when leaving the box turned on.
   
  i never subscribed to that school of thought myself.  
   
  But you do raise an interesting wrinkle.  
   
  With computers, there were no cathodes that required heating up.   I welcome the results of your experiment, but I don't think I want to subject my nice glass to any more stress than I already require of it!


----------



## BobJS

I don't know why I keep reading this thread ...... I'll get enticed to drop a hundred (or more) on a highly acclaimed set of tubes ..... only to find, upon receipt, that they REALLY DO take my Bifrost/Lyr to the next level!
   
  So what's the problem?  I always think I've achieved Nirvana until I A/B it against my Conductor.  The damn Conductor always wins.  At this point (including tube purchases), the Conductor is less expensive too .................


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> You just love to argue.  That's it, isn't it?


 
   
  No, it isn't, and I should have chosen my words more carefully. We don't really disagree at all. I'm just not fond of the mystique around one brand when the same product is available under several brands, which has been verified by multiple sources, e.g., very trustworthy sellers. The brand mystique (as opposed to information, recommendations, etc.) is not helpful to the newbs either. That's all.
   


> Are you denying that certain tubes sound better than other tubes?


 
   
  Absolutely not. We agree that the tube in question is a great one.
   


> Or are you suggesting that the people who made the great sounding tubes knew exactly what they were doing and made some tubes sound great and others sound mediocre on purpose?


 
   
  No, I'm not. They'd probably think that we are all crazy rolling tubes the way we do.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oskari said:


> No, it isn't, and I should have chosen my words more carefully. We don't really disagree at all. I'm just not fond of the mystique around one brand when the same product is available under several brands, which has been verified by multiple sources, e.g., very trustworthy sellers. The brand mystique (as opposed to information, recommendations, etc.) is not helpful to the newbs either. That's all.
> 
> 
> Absolutely not. We agree that the tube in question is a great one.
> ...


 
   
  I think that for the most part we agree.
   
  You have a depth of knowledge that is most welcome here.  
   
  I'll just stick with trying to help as best I can, and if any questions come up as to part numbers, date codes and who made what tubes where, I'll defer to you.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Yes, I agree with the Solid state part.
> I've heard of some Audiophiles leaving their SS audio equipment permanently in the "ON" position for over 10 years!!!
> 
> For tubes, there is also an "extreme" school of thought, of which I am not a member by the way.
> ...


 

 I don't know why this heating issue occurs with solid state, especially ss output devices.  But it's pretty universally recognized - just another one of those 'audio mysteries'.
   
  I leave my tube/ss amp(class A Mosfets outputs) on all day, mostly because I'm listening to them.  Thank God I live in Seattle, they do get warm.
   
  The Lyr is on almost around the clock now - so many tubes to burn-in!  I do turn it off once a day for a couple of hours to cool off.  The design of this amp with the output Mosfet so close to the transformers, I can see the need for the special heat-sinking.  It does get warm as well.  I'd pay extra to Schiit to just get a full size case!  Until I finish listening tests on my tubes, I hesitate to use tube risers.  But the case design makes it a bitch to get those suckers out.  I'll probably try a pr once complete - mostly so I can use my Herbie's Ultrasonic Rx Tube dampers.   http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm


----------



## Zuckfun

Orange Globes are here! Ordered on Monday, here on Wednesday- Great service from mercedesman. Burning them in now, and had to peek a listen. Initial impression- very musical tubes. Euphonic- maybe too early to tell, but these will be my next champion. Thanks for the recommendation


----------



## rb2013

Greatest Headphone Review ever - good to keep in mind when choosing the tube characteristics that fit your cans.
   
 Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared)  http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Greatest Headphone Review ever - good to keep in mind when choosing the tube characteristics that fit your cans.
> 
> Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared)  http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13


 
  wow


----------



## Junior mints

Anyone have experience with telefunken tubes in their lyr? Are the 12au7 and 12ax7 compatible? Other suggestions to look for?


----------



## HK_sends

12au7 and 12ax7 tubes are not compatible with the Lyr! Don't use them! They have 12 volt heaters. You need to use tubes with 6 volt heaters like the 6922/6DJ8/E88CC/ECC88 etc. You can also use some 7 volt tubes like the PCC88, but nothing with 12 on the front. Cheers! -HK sends


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Orange Globes are here! Ordered on Monday, here on Wednesday- Great service from mercedesman. Burning them in now, and had to peek a listen. Initial impression- very musical tubes. Euphonic- maybe too early to tell, but these will be my next champion. Thanks for the recommendation


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Greatest Headphone Review ever - good to keep in mind when choosing the tube characteristics that fit your cans.
> 
> Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared)  http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13


 
  Awesome!  Thanks for the link!


----------



## Sanlitun

bobjs said:


> So what's the problem?  I always think I've achieved Nirvana until I A/B it against my Conductor.  The damn Conductor always wins.  At this point (including tube purchases), the Conductor is less expensive too .................




I had my heart set on the Conductor, but I went to demo it with my HE-500's and I didn't feel it was substantially better than my Asgard2/Bifrost setup. But before I left and just out of curiosity I tried out the Lyr and really enjoyed it, enough to buy it immediately. But during the demo we weren't running the Lyr from a Bifrost, but rather from the DAC outs of the Conductor. This combo seemed to be pretty nice, and one of the reasons I dropped the Bifrost and went with a Sabre based DAC.

Curious if this is how you run your Lyr and if you do if you find it superior to the Bifrost as a DAC.


----------



## Alexnova

This has been bothering me for awhile and sort of begs the question. If the Amperex OG's are so good, why can't we just reproduce them? Sans all the magic dust BS, surely we could get the same schematics and parts to build it ourselves...no?


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Awesome!  Thanks for the link!


 

 Thanks!  I had to wipe the drool from my mouth the first time I read it.


----------



## Alexnova

rb2013 said:


> Thanks!  I had to wipe the drool from my mouth the first time I read it.



 
 Maybe I missed it, but did he say if he actually owns all of that equipment? I doubt it. Good luck with him on recovering from tinnitus. His review of the HE-500 and praise of planar magnetics made me ditch the Grado PS500.


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> This has been bothering me for awhile and sort of begs the question. If the Amperex OG's are so good, why can't we just reproduce them? Sans all the magic dust BS, surely we could get the same schematics and parts to build it ourselves...no?


 
   
  Kind of a loaded question.   There was a lot that went into the manufacture of tubes beyond the physical construction, primarily the metallurgy and  chemistry involved in the coatings, which were closely guarded secrets in many cases.   Also, in many cases, the people who knew those formulas are long gone, and with the transition to solid state and tubes falling out of favor, I'm sure no one really thought about them being relevant in the future.
   
  It's also worth mentioning, many of the tubes that we all seem to lust after were never designed for audio circuits.  That they happen to work well and sound so great in audio circuits was never part of anyone's plan back at that time.   The higher quality tubes in this line were higher quality because they were tightly balanced, had less variance from tube to tube, were more durably constructed/longer lasting for some part numbers, etc... not because they were necessarily better for audio reproduction.   A good read about the 6DJ8 family and use in audio circuits:  http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/suitof6dfora.html - and from that article:
   
  "[size=small]The 6DJ8/6922 (µ = 33) appeared in the late 1960's designed for use in color TV tuners. Textronics and others used them in oscilloscopes and other high performance test equipment. In my research for a very quiet phono input/head amp tube I found it to be the best choice due to it's linearity and high transconductance."[/size]
   
  There have been a few decent-to-good sounding reproductions of tubes in this family, some hate them, some even prefer them to the NOS tubes, but due to the history and knowledge that has been lost, the chances of ever reproducing the NOS stuff exactly the same are slim to none.
   
     -Mike


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> This has been bothering me for awhile and sort of begs the question. If the Amperex OG's are so good, why can't we just reproduce them? Sans all the magic dust BS, surely we could get the same schematics and parts to build it ourselves...no?


 
   
  OGs aren't the only really great tubes out there, they are probably the easiest to abbreviate though! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But to answer you question:  they've been trying!
   
  Tubes are still being produced to this day, and the design of the 6DJ8 family of tubes is widely known. But, for reasons unknown, at least to most people, they haven't been able to reproduce the, for want of a better term, magic.
   
  A lot of the tubes we treasure were not even designed specifically for audio!  The 6DJ8 is simply a dual triode tube, there are many circuits in which it will work just fine, but it was originally designed to be used as an amplifier in TV tuners. For most applications, the tubes being built today, and most of the tubes built back in the day, are perfectly adequate.  But when used in audio circuits certain tubes begin to display qualities that make them better than other models.  We have to assume that the qualities that make the OGs better for audio were a happy accident, since it wasn't designed with audio in mind.  That makes reproducing the magic all the more difficult.
   
  Eventually the tubes were used in audio amplifiers, and manufacturers did make attempts to optimize it for audio.  Some of these attempts were more successful than others, witness the CCa tubes that are highly sought after.
   
  But eventually transistors took over, and a lot of the guys who knew what they were doing retired.
   
  But tube manufacturers are still cranking out the valves.
   
  Maybe eventually they will be able to produce a new super tube.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Kind of a loaded question.   There was a lot that went into the manufacture of tubes beyond the physical construction, primarily the metallurgy and  chemistry involved in the coatings, which were closely guarded secrets in many cases.   Also, in many cases, the people who knew those formulas are long gone, and with the transition to solid state and tubes falling out of favor, I'm sure no one really thought about them being relevant in the future.
> 
> It's also worth mentioning, many of the tubes that we all seem to lust after were never designed for audio circuits.  That they happen to work well and sound so great in audio circuits was never part of anyone's plan back at that time.   The higher quality tubes in this line were higher quality because they were tightly balanced, had less variance from tube to tube, were more durably constructed/longer lasting for some part numbers, etc... not because they were necessarily better for audio reproduction.   A good read about the 6DJ8 family and use in audio circuits:  http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/suitof6dfora.html - and from that article:
> 
> ...


 
  You beat me to it!
   
  Your answer is better anyway!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Maybe I missed it, but did he say if he actually owns all of that equipment? I doubt it.Good luck with him on recovering from tinnitus. His review of the HE-500 and praise of planar magnetics made me ditch the Grado PS500.


 
  I really fell in love with the orthodynamics once my LCD-2.2s landed.  I've hardly listened to my DT880s since!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Maybe I missed it, but did he say if he actually owns all of that equipment? I doubt it.Good luck with him on recovering from tinnitus. His review of the HE-500 and praise of planar magnetics made me ditch the Grado PS500.


 

 Yes he owns it all - I guess when you live in a NYC apartment and you have lots of money - that's what you do.   He rates the HE-500 as the best headphone bang for the buck!  The LCD 2.2 are right up there!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Yes he owns it all - I guess when you live in a NYC apartment and you have lots of money - that's what you do.   He rates the HE-500 as the best headphone bang for the buck!  The LCD 2.2 are right up there!


 
  I couldn't differentiate 5 different pieces of fruit.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I couldn't differentiate 5 different pieces of fruit.


 

 It must get confusing.


----------



## Zuckfun

These Orange Globes are awesome. Deep tight bass, beautiful crystal clear mids. An incredible presentation. I'm in headphone heaven tonight.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> It must get confusing.


 
  what?


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> These Orange Globes are awesome. Deep tight bass, beautiful crystal clear mids. An incredible presentation. I'm in headphone heaven tonight.


 

 Can you link the ebay page of your OG's? Just curious what you got.
  (And yes if you won it, you still can look at items)


----------



## Alexnova

i***t (4) is trolling the hell out of this Lorenz Stugart auction:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/190858455235?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
   
  155.00 so far
   
  EDIT: Wow battled til the very last second, 208.49. Damn.


----------



## Sanlitun

hk_sends said:


> For those still looking out for Lorenz tubes, Tubemonger informed me there is a set of used grey-shield Stuttgart Lorenz PCC88s for auction on ebay here:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PCC88-7DJ8-ECC88-6DJ8-SUBS-VINTAGE-LORENZ-STRONG-/190858455235?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c700ce8c3
> 
> ...




Whoo! Well that was a bloodbath.

Congratz to the winners.


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> i***t (4) is trolling the hell out of this Lorenz Stugart auction:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190858455235?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> 155.00 so far


 
  yeah i saw that - why would he raise his own bid that many times ?


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> yeah i saw that - why would he raise his own bid that many times ?


 
  Because you raise your max bid just in case someone tries to outbid you.
   
  So if the auction is at 50.00, and I place my max bid at 56.00, I think the auction price changes to 51.00. Someone has to bid more than 56.00 to be the leading winner on the auction.
   
  But if the guy doesn't think 56.00 is enough, he can raise it.
   
  It's supposed to prevent last second bidders from swooping in and winning auctions.
   
  EDIT: In this situation, I guarantee it's an alternate account of the seller to raise the price. It happens all the damn time. If a seller knows he has an amazing product and starts an auction stupidly low in price, he will get a second account to raise the bids and force a real buyer to pay a lot more for the item.


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> light static tizzy background noise ? is that normal for tubes
> 
> i can hear it in quiet passages and when music has stopped - cant hear it when music is playing
> 
> the lyr being my first tube amp i'm not sure if this is normal or not - dont yet have any other tubes to swap out


 
   
  Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> Try reversing the tubes and see if problem follows.
> 
> ckc


 
  that did the trick !! thanks


----------



## Zuckfun

alexnova said:


> Can you link the ebay page of your OG's? Just curious what you got.
> (And yes if you won it, you still can look at items)



http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=221242780016

Here's a current listing from mercedesman with the same tube, though I would inquire if he has any 68 o-getters (or 67)
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?index=0&sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=221229410098


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=221242780016
> 
> Here's a current listing from mercedesman with the same tube, though I would inquire if he has any 68 o-getters (or 67)
> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?index=0&sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=221229410098


 

 Yeah I got the OG '68 a few days ago. Waiting for it to come in the mail. You have the LCD-2's right?


----------



## Zuckfun

alexnova said:


> Yeah I got the OG '68 a few days ago. Waiting for it to come in the mail. You have the LCD-2's right?


 Haven't made it (yet) to the level of LCD-2. Listening on both HE-400 and HD650, and they're amazing on both. nelamvr6 has the LCD-2's, and his review of these tubes as his favorites intrigued me enough to find them. Sure glad I did


----------



## sceleratus

I purchased an interesting set of OG valves from mercedesman.   They are halo getters but made in the Mullard factory in the UK.   They have the same Orange Globe construction as Heerlen.
   
He said they sound great but also are rare because these were only made in the UK for one year and the halo getters were a short run before switching to "A" frames.
   
I'm just relating what he told me.   Anyway, I was looking for a nice set of OG's and decided on these.  Looking forward to their arrival.  He had 4 sets.  I suspect someone here has a set or two....   They look like keepers.


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I purchased an interesting set of OG valves from mercedesman.   They are halo getters but made in the Mullard factory in the UK.   They have the same Orange Globe construction as Heerlen.
> 
> He said they sound great but also are rare because these were only made in the UK for one year and the halo getters were a short run before switching to "A" frames.
> 
> I'm just relating what he told me.   Anyway, I was looking for a nice set of OG's and decided on these.  Looking forward to their arrival.  He had 4 sets.  I suspect someone here has a set or two....   They look like keepers.


 

 Are you talking about these?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-ORANGE-GLOBE-MATCHED-PAIR-1970-O-GETTER-RARE-/221233721744?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33828eb190


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Are you talking about these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-ORANGE-GLOBE-MATCHED-PAIR-1970-O-GETTER-RARE-/221233721744?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33828eb190


 
  yup


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Haven't made it (yet) to the level of LCD-2. Listening on both HE-400 and HD650, and they're amazing on both. nelamvr6 has the LCD-2's, and his review of these tubes as his favorites intrigued me enough to find them. Sure glad I did


 
  I think the HE-400 and HD650 are tremendous headphones. And yeah I know he has them, but since I have the HE-500, I will see if those female vocals are as upfront as what folks have said about these tubes.


----------



## sceleratus

I have not heard the Voskhods .... yet.... but the OG's are a can't miss, good bang-for-the-buck valve.
  Very rich, very musical.  You'll sit back with a smile and say "Yup, this is why I bought a valve amp"


----------



## Alexnova

Since sceleratus brought to mind something...
   
  What were the price of these tubes 5 years ago? OG's,etc.


----------



## Zuckfun

alexnova said:


> I think the HE-400 and HD650 are tremendous headphones. And yeah I know he has them, but since I have the HE-500, I will see if those female vocals are as upfront as what folks have said about these tubes.


 Orange Globes + HE-500- That is a combo I would love to try. It just feels like the OG's belong in the Lyr, great synergy.


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Good stuff
> 
> -Mike


 
  Sorry if my post came off too naive, I just figure we could replicate them somehow. But if you have to get the right coating with chemicals, and no formulas exist, well then I guess it's futile.
   
  If only there was a boom in tube amps maybe there would be more of an interest on creating great tubes again.


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Orange Globes + HE-500- That is a combo I would love to try. It just feels like the OG's belong in the Lyr, great synergy.


 

 I'll let you know tomorrow night. I trust the DAC on my Onkyo just enough for now, but I feel more comfortable getting a re-clock on the Bifrost. 2 more weeks until I pick that up.
   
  What music are you listening to? If you have albums that I have, I can give you a better impression.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I have not heard the Voskhods .... yet.... but the OG's are a can't miss, good bang-for-the-buck valve.
> Very rich, very musical.  You'll sit back with a smile and say "Yup, this is why I bought a valve amp"


 
  I don't have a clue about ECC88's since I've only owned a Lyr for 10 months.   OG prices have been pretty stable.  Lorenz went nuts and doubled.  The exotics have always been priced $350 -$850. more
   
  I hade an EL34 amp 7-8 years ago and those valves have stayed about the same.  But those are power valves.
   
  The 9 pin receiving valve always cost more.


----------



## Zuckfun

alexnova said:


> I'll let you know tomorrow night. I trust the DAC on my Onkyo just enough for now, but I feel more comfortable getting a re-clock on the Bifrost. 2 more weeks until I pick that up.
> 
> What music are you listening to? If you have albums that I have, I can give you a better impression.


 A lot of different music, classic rock, acoustic, some jazz. Interested to hear your impressions with the music you're most familiar with. Isn't this always a great test- Okay, here's a song you've heard 100 times, now listen to it on this new piece of equipment.


----------



## Zuckfun

Woops, Sorry- Double post


----------



## Lord Soth

sanlitun said:


> Whoo! Well that was a bloodbath.
> 
> Congratz to the winners.




Yes, considering that the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 were only selling for around US$10 about 5 years ago a piece.
That's 20x!!!

BTW, there are still small caches of such tubes in Germany at a couple of Euros each.
I got my stash before Tubemonger sold them for US$50 each and then the floodgates broke when this thread helped propel them to their current astronomical prices.

I predict that I'll be able to trade my tubes for a Ferrari in 20 years from now!


----------



## Lord Soth

sceleratus said:


> I don't have a clue about ECC88's since I've only owned a Lyr for 10 months.   OG prices have been pretty stable.  Lorenz went nuts and doubled.  The exotics have always been priced $350 -$850. more
> 
> I hade an EL34 amp 7-8 years ago and those valves have stayed about the same.  But those are power valves.
> 
> The 9 pin receiving valve always cost more.




If you still have your EL34 amp, I recommend paying the extra for the Metal based EL34s from Philips. 
They took my EL34 based amp to a whole new level and have cured me of my bout of "upgraditis" for the time being.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> If you still have your EL34 amp, I recommend paying the extra for the Metal based EL34s from Philips.
> They took my EL34 based amp to a whole new level and have cured me of my bout of "upgraditis" for the time being.


 
  Thanks LS,
  My Jolisa 302 is gone.
   
  I have moved on to 300B's.
  I presently have JJ's, I will not be paying for WE co's
  Any thoughts Genalex?


----------



## kothganesh

Hey guys:
   
  Just bought a pair of OGs from mercedesman. Just keeping up with the Joneses y'know ?


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> Anyone have experience with telefunken tubes in their lyr? Are the 12au7 and 12ax7 compatible? Other suggestions to look for?


 
   
  I have a set of 6DJ8 Telefunkens in my Lyr right now.  I love them, but they may not be for everyone. They are very neutral and detailed. They are not warm, so they almost sound a bit like a really good transistor but with the tube harmonics. They pair really well with my Grado PS-500s which run a bit warm compared to most Grados.  They may not be the best choice for cans that are already cool or bright but are fantastic with the PS-500s.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Hey guys:
> 
> Just bought a pair of OGs from mercedesman. Just keeping up with the Joneses y'know ?


 
  If they are the UK ones, I think they will be winners.
  If nothing else there is a novelty factor.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Orange Globes + HE-500- That is a combo I would love to try. It just feels like the OG's belong in the Lyr, great synergy.


 
  I'm glad you like them!


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> If they are the UK ones, I think they will be winners.
> If nothing else there is a novelty factor.


 
  Well, the description says Herleen (which is believe is in Holland).


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Well, the description says Herleen (which is believe is in Holland).


 
  Yep, that's Holland.
   
  Did you get O getters?


----------



## Lord Soth

sceleratus said:


> Thanks LS,
> My Jolisa 302 is gone.
> 
> I have moved on to 300B's.
> ...




In general, I tend to stay away from Genelex and JJ new production tubes due to their production quality issues.

For the 300B, in an audiophile shootout, the Japanese Tatsuki" something something" new production tubes are supposed to sound as good as the famed WE 300b and with great bass, which was always the weakness with 300B tubes.

The next best thing might be the PSVANE Chinese tubes.

Next in line would be the Genelex new production.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Yep, that's Holland.
> 
> Did you get O getters?


 
  Shucks, I did not. Where do I get 'em ?


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Shucks, I did not. Where do I get 'em ?


 
  That was a stupid response since I was doing something else while typing the response. Yes, I did get the O Getters.


----------



## sceleratus

lord soth said:


> In general, I tend to stay away from Genelex and JJ new production tubes due to their production quality issues.
> 
> For the 300B, in an audiophile shootout, the Japanese Tatsuki" something something" new production tubes are supposed to sound as good as the famed WE 300b and with great bass, which was always the weakness with 300B tubes.
> 
> ...




Thanks,
I'm a total noob and seen a few of those. I get the sense that the JJ's aren't the greatest.
One thing I read was stay away from carbon/graphite designs. 

Jacmusic caries .... Emission Labs. Looks like a lot of marketing.
I will look into the Japanese brand.
The PSVANE caught my eye too.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Shucks, I did not. Where do I get 'em ?


 
  Edit: Never mind. Your next post answered my question...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> That was a stupid response since I was doing something else while typing the response. Yes, I did get the O Getters.


 
  Ok, cool!


----------



## Junior mints

alexnova said:


> i***t (4) is trolling the hell out of this Lorenz Stugart auction:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190858455235?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> ...



I went up to $153. My wallet is very happy I stopped


----------



## ilikepooters

Voskhod 6N23P's, Do i have enough yet?


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Voskhod 6N23P's, Do i have enough yet?


 
  Anticipating the end of the tube production industry eh ?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Anticipating the end of the tube production industry eh ?


 
   
  Just want to see if certain construction sounds better


----------



## Lord Soth

ilikepooters said:


> Voskhod 6N23P's, Do i have enough yet?




:rolleyes:
 Do you own a tube tester?

How do you know there are matched pairs?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Do you own a tube tester?
> 
> How do you know there are matched pairs?


 
  Yup, got a Tube Imp, not the greatest but good enough for matching.
   
  I prefer to make sure the gain is equal before transconductance, works for me.
   
  These are all used so will be a mixed bag for testing, will likely never find a pair in these with the same construction and same transconductance anyway, so gain is easier. Just using this lot to see which construction, if any, sounds best before i go hunting for a NOS pair.


----------



## HK_sends

alexnova said:


> i***t (4) is trolling the hell out of this Lorenz Stugart auction:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190858455235?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> ...



 
 OUCH! To think TubeMonger was selling them (NOS) for $50 a piece...but that was two years ago...


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> what?


 

 So many different amps and headphones in his review...thought that is what you were referring to about the fruit


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Because you raise your max bid just in case someone tries to outbid you.
> 
> So if the auction is at 50.00, and I place my max bid at 56.00, I think the auction price changes to 51.00. Someone has to bid more than 56.00 to be the leading winner on the auction.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, just missed these last night wasn't going to pay more then $75, set as my Max Bid, a few folks stepped in at the last minute - they went for $104.30:
 2x PCC88 7DJ8 D-GETTER PINCHED WAIST ( ECC88 / 6DJ8 SUBS ) VALVO  http://www.ebay.com/itm/190858455246?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649
   
  But got these - not bad $64! 
 2x PCC88 7DJ8 ( ECC88 / 6DJ8 SUBS ) SIEMENS GRAY SHIELDS STRONG  http://www.ebay.com/itm/190858455206?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Yes, considering that the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 were only selling for around US$10 about 5 years ago a piece.
> That's 20x!!!
> 
> BTW, there are still small caches of such tubes in Germany at a couple of Euros each.
> ...


 

 Yeap...This tube is just OUT of This World Class Tube!!


----------



## sceleratus

rb2013 said:


> So many different amps and headphones in his review...thought that is what you were referring to about the fruit


huh?


----------



## Sanlitun

I'm curious if anyone can recommend a 100% reliable vendor for the more expensive tubes?

I was looking at Telefunkens on Ebay last night and about half of what I saw looked dubious.


----------



## Junior mints

sanlitun said:


> I'm curious if anyone can recommend a 100% reliable vendor for the more expensive tubes?
> 
> I was looking at Telefunkens on Ebay last night and about half of what I saw looked dubious.




I was just looking over the Siemens and Telefunkens CCa on upscale audio. They said they do have both in stock. Haven't dealt with them personally, but I hear they're great and reliable.


----------



## Junior mints

On the topic of Lorenz being out of this world, what do you think of these?http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=290848900203


----------



## mhamel

A few that come to mind:
   
  Upscale Audio
  Tubemonger
  Brent Jessee Recording
  Tubeworld
  Jim McShane
  Mercedesman (eBay)
   
  I've purchased from all but Jim McShane in the past.
   
   
    -Mike


----------



## Sanlitun

junior mints said:


> On the topic of Lorenz being out of this world, what do you think of these?http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=290848900203




Those are probably great tubes, but the German made items are the ones I would look for.


----------



## Alexnova

Just threw in the OGs into the Lyr...won't say anything yet.
   
  How far do you guys turn the knob on the Lyr? I have to turn mine even further (almost in a 2 o'clock position) to get the right volume for me.


----------



## Zuckfun

alexnova said:


> Just threw in the OGs into the Lyr...won't say anything yet.
> 
> How far do you guys turn the knob on the Lyr? I have to turn mine even further (almost in a 2 o'clock position) to get the right volume for me.


2 o'clock...Wow, maybe 10 for me. Upon furthur listening the OG's like the 650's alot more than the HE-400's. This may change after burn-in, and probably will- I barely have 15 hours on them. They are perfection with the 650's.


----------



## Alexnova

No I don't have tinnitus or any hearing issues. Then again I'm not listening to headphones hours and hours a day at ridiculous volumes nor going to loud concerts without a set of earplugs. For me to hear the entire dynamics to recording, yeah I have to turn up quite a bit.
   
  Anywho, these tubes need some burn in time. I like what I hear thus far but I feel they will not come alive until after a much needed burn in.
   
  EDIT: This may also be due to the fact I am suffering from terrible allergies at the moment, sore throat, sinus problems, etc. I believe it has impacted how I hear sounds to some degree since they sound clogged up because of the allergies. Probably explains why I have them so high.
   
  But even that sad, these are an upgrade from my stock tubes. How much so remains to be heard.


----------



## Zuckfun

alexnova said:


> No I don't have tinnitus or any hearing issues. Then again I'm not listening to headphones hours and hours a day at ridiculous volumes nor going to loud concerts without a set of earplugs. For me to hear the entire dynamics to recording, yeah I have to turn up quite a bit.
> 
> Anywho, these tubes need some burn in time. I like what I hear thus far but I feel they will not come alive until after a much needed burn in.
> 
> ...


 Could also be age maybe. When I was younger, I turned it all the way up. Now in my late 30's, well ya know. Totally agree about the burn-in comments. When mercedesman says they're NOS, they are NOS.


----------



## Radioking59

alexnova said:


> No I don't have tinnitus or any hearing issues. Then again I'm not listening to headphones hours and hours a day at ridiculous volumes nor going to loud concerts without a set of earplugs. For me to hear the entire dynamics to recording, yeah I have to turn up quite a bit.
> 
> Anywho, these tubes need some burn in time. I like what I hear thus far but I feel they will not come alive until after a much needed burn in.
> 
> ...




Your source must not have a very loud line out. You have HE-500s correct? We have the same setup I believe except I use the Bifrost. I hardly ever go past 12 o'clock unless I'm listening to something that was mastered super quiet like some early Mofi CDs.


----------



## nelamvr6

I listen with my volume know about 11 o'clock usually, about 12 when I want to rock out.


----------



## Zuckfun

Am I right in saying that to properly burn tubes in, music needs to be playing thru them? That is to say, it's not enough to just have the Lyr on


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> Your source must not have a very loud line out. You have HE-500s correct? We have the same setup I believe except I use the Bifrost. I hardly ever go past 12 o'clock unless I'm listening to something that was mastered super quiet like some early Mofi CDs.


 
  Which is exactly why I want the Bifrost Uber just to see how big of a different I get and to properly review the tubes.
   
  I also believe it has something to do with my line out, and I swear I am hearing some sort of down-mixing. Actually I think the line out is a D Mix one too.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

alexnova said:


> Which is exactly why I want the Bifrost Uber just to see how big of a different I get and to properly review the tubes.
> 
> I also believe it has something to do with my line out, and I swear I am hearing some sort of down-mixing. Actually I think the line out is a D Mix one too.




Depends on the headphone, source, recording etc. I sometimes have to crank it up to around 2 o'clock also.


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Depends on the headphone, source, recording etc. I sometimes have to crank it up to around 2 o'clock also.


 
  I agree with the recordings part, stuff in the early 90s didn't have suffer from being totally brickwalled later on in the iPod earbud era.
   
  That being said even the recordings I used to play before the tube swap I still am turning them up even more. Again probably attribute that to my line out, my allergies, etc.
   
  I'd like to have a better environment than I am now for listening.
   
  Also I have had no problems with female vocals as someone else said with these tubes on the HE-500.


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Bingo. The forward mids of the Orange Globe is exactly why I prefer my tubes a bit more laid back with the HE500. The Mullard CV2493 and Bugle Boys are what I usually roll in.


 
  What Bugle Boys are you specifically rolling in?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> i***t (4) is trolling the hell out of this Lorenz Stugart auction:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190858455235?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> ...


 

 I was in for around $120 max. But that jump to $155.00 killed it for me right out of the gate.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Because you raise your max bid just in case someone tries to outbid you.
> 
> So if the auction is at 50.00, and I place my max bid at 56.00, I think the auction price changes to 51.00. Someone has to bid more than 56.00 to be the leading winner on the auction.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's called sniping. To snipe. And it's how all auctions are done. If you don't snipe, you don't win. You set your max low, until the last 5 seconds. Review what its at, then set your max again.


----------



## mhamel

alexnova said:


> I agree with the recordings part, stuff in the early 90s didn't have suffer from being totally brickwalled later on in the iPod earbud era.
> 
> That being said even the recordings I used to play before the tube swap I still am turning them up even more. Again probably attribute that to my line out, my allergies, etc.
> 
> ...




Which stock tubes do you have? GE 6BZ7? If so, they have a bit more gain than the 6DJ8 family tubes, so you will notice some variance in volume at the same position. 

 -Mike


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Which stock tubes do you have? GE 6BZ7? If so, they have a bit more gain than the 6DJ8 family tubes, so you will notice some variance in volume at the same position.
> 
> -Mike


 
  Yes I have the GE 6BZ7. Variance as in less or more?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *rb2013* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> But got these - not bad $64!
> 2x PCC88 7DJ8 ( ECC88 / 6DJ8 SUBS ) SIEMENS GRAY SHIELDS STRONG  http://www.ebay.com/itm/190858455206?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


 
   
  Oh hey. I was gonna drive those up for you, but I might have gotten burned. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I already got my four and they haven't shown up. In fact I messaged the seller to see if they were sent yet.  Grats! I hope they perform close to the gray cca. Let me know if you get yours first.
  I got some CV2493s last week, but my Lyr is busy cooking the Voskhods. I tried them for a couple minutes. Initial impressions were.... umm well. I'll just sit on that for a while.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> On the topic of Lorenz being out of this world, what do you think of these?http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=290848900203


 
  That seller way overprices his tubes.  I wouldn't buy Lorenz SELs for more than $100.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> Your source must not have a very loud line out. You have HE-500s correct? We have the same setup I believe except I use the Bifrost. I hardly ever go past 12 o'clock unless I'm listening to something that was mastered super quiet like some early Mofi CDs.


 
   
  +1
   
  I set to 12 o'clock and then lower the volume in Foobar a bit so I have variation via remote using the Foobar app on my tablet.  Has to be a super low recording level for me to venture 12'oclock or past. Slamming into the next album can be a shocking experience when that happens.


----------



## mhamel

alexnova said:


> Yes I have the GE 6BZ7. Variance as in less or more?




The stock 6BZ7 tubes have higher gain than the OGs, so they will be louder than the OGs at the same volume position. 

 -Mike


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I listen with my volume know about 11 o'clock usually, about 12 when I want to rock out.


 
   
  There's still plenty of fun to be had at 11. I mostly cost at 10:30 for long sessions. Its plenty with my chain. 11:30 can get painful.


----------



## GrindingThud

Liquidating?



ilikepooters said:


> Voskhod 6N23P's, Do i have enough yet?


----------



## Zuckfun

Strange how the first couple of hours listening to these tubes were amazing. Then they seemed to lose a little magic. It's not until after the 20 hour mark is their former glory retained. 20 hour burn-in minimum.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Am I right in saying that to properly burn tubes in, music needs to be playing thru them? That is to say, it's not enough to just have the Lyr on


 
  I believe so, at least that's what I do.  I also use pink noise.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Strange how the first couple of hours listening to these tubes were amazing. Then they seemed to lose a little magic. It's not until the after 20 hour mark is their former glory retained. 20 hour burn-in minimum


 
  How many hours have you got now?
   
  How do they sound?


----------



## Zuckfun

nelamvr6 said:


> How many hours have you got now?
> 
> How do they sound?


 A little over 20 hours, and now they sound better on both the 400's and the 650's than ever before. Remarkable tubes here, easily the best I've heard. Thanks again for this recommendation


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> A little over 20 hours, and now they sound better on both the 400's and the 650's than ever before. Remarkable tubes here, easily the best I've heard. Thanks again for this recommendation


 
  My pleasure!


----------



## tuna47

Usually play at around 11:00 but I am old 66
Just got the Voskhods 1980 silver they sound great competing with my orange globe A frames they have better bass


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> What Bugle Boys are you specifically rolling in?


 

 Bugle Boy D-getters from 1959. To my ears they sound so much better than my '62 Bugle Boys.
   
  The '59s have more detail, smoother mids and a larger soundstage that I enjoy with my HE500.
   
  In fact, after I first heard the '59 BB, I bought 3 more pair. That's how much I like them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  YMMV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: Here's another set of ears that hears it the way I do...
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/4365#post_8912244


----------



## OldSkool

Speaking of Orange globes, I'm also one that loves the OG's with the HD650.
   
  Not so much with the HE500.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Bugle Boy D-getters from 1959. To my ears they sound so much better than my '62 Bugle Boys.
> 
> The '59s have more detail, smoother mids and a larger soundstage that I enjoy with my HE500.
> 
> ...


 
+1
the tiny men rock the sockets.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Voskhod 6N23P's, Do i have enough yet?


 
  And on this week's episode of Tube Hoarders... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Just kidding, nice cache.   At 5,000 - 10,000 hours a pair, you should be able to weather a few Siberian winters with that many Voskhods.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> +1
> the tiny men rock the sockets.


 

 Although our audio chains are different, I think it's really cool how many of us glass-geeks have found that magic valve after a long, strange, expensive journey.
  (No Oskari, I'm not talking about pixie dust, but THE ONE. The endgame valve that sounds glorious in our individual rigs.)
   
  R Scott Ireland and his S&H CCAs.
   
  Sceleratus with his french RTCs.
   
  Nelamvr6 and his beloved OGlobes.
   
  HK_sends with his CV4109s.
   
  gmahler2u and the rare Lorenz 3-micas.
   
  CKC527 with his pinched-waist 6922s.
   
  Me and my D-getter BBoys.
   
   
  Heck, I'm thinking it's time to get tattoos.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Although our audio chains are different, I think it's really cool how many of us glass-geeks have found that magic valve after a long, strange, expensive journey.
> (No Oskari, I'm not talking about pixie dust, but THE ONE. The endgame valve that sounds glorious in our individual rigs.)
> 
> R Scott Ireland and his S&H CCAs.
> ...


 
   
   
  I'll get the Amperex logo!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Although our audio chains are different, I think it's really cool how many of us glass-geeks have found that magic valve after a long, strange, expensive journey.
> (No Oskari, I'm not talking about pixie dust, but THE ONE. The endgame valve that sounds glorious in our individual rigs.)
> 
> R Scott Ireland and his S&H CCAs.
> ...


 
  crazy list


----------



## Lord Soth

bsn said:


> And on this week's episode of Tube Hoarders...     Just kidding, nice cache.   At 5,000 - 10,000 hours a pair, you should be able to weather a few Siberian winters with that many Voskhods.




His Russian tube stash were also ORGANICALLY CRYO treated in Siberia.
Serious audiophiles in the know, know that organic cryo methods produces better sonics than artificial liquid nitrogen treatment!


----------



## Zuckfun

oldskool said:


> Although our audio chains are different, I think it's really cool how many of us glass-geeks have found that magic valve after a long, strange, expensive journey.
> (No Oskari, I'm not talking about pixie dust, but THE ONE. The endgame valve that sounds glorious in our individual rigs.)
> 
> R Scott Ireland and his S&H CCAs.
> ...


 Now if this list can be updated with the headphone that's paired with the above preferred tube, it could be like a go to guide for future reference. Here's one:
HD650- Orange Globe late 60's o-getter


----------



## Lord Soth

zuckfun said:


> Am I right in saying that to properly burn tubes in, music needs to be playing thru them? That is to say, it's not enough to just have the Lyr on




Burn in for tubes works the same way as for headphones.

You have to play some music!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Now if this list can be updated with the headphone that's paired with the above preferred tube, it could be like a go to guide for future reference.


 
   
  Mine are LCD-2.2


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Although our audio chains are different, I think it's really cool how many of us glass-geeks have found that magic valve after a long, strange, expensive journey.
> (No Oskari, I'm not talking about pixie dust, but THE ONE. The endgame valve that sounds glorious in our individual rigs.)
> 
> R Scott Ireland and his S&H CCAs.
> ...


----------



## Zuckfun

oldskool said:


> R Scott Ireland and his S&H CCAs. HD800
> 
> Sceleratus with his french RTCs.
> 
> ...


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Although our audio chains are different, I think it's really cool how many of us glass-geeks have found that magic valve after a long, strange, expensive journey.
> (No Oskari, I'm not talking about pixie dust, but THE ONE. The endgame valve that sounds glorious in our individual rigs.)
> 
> R Scott Ireland and his S&H CCAs.
> ...


 
  A clarion call to rb2013, ilikepooters and so on...what do we have for the Voskhods ?


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I believe so, at least that's what I do.  I also use pink noise.


 
  You have a link to a good pink noise source? Is burning it in with different genres of music bad?


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Now if this list can be updated with the headphone that's paired with the above preferred tube, it could be like a go to guide for future reference. Here's one:
> HD650- Orange Globe late 60's o-getter


 
   
  HE-500 - Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-mica
  T1 - Amperex PQ 6922 Pinched Waist


----------



## billerb1

Alexnova....here ya go.
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w8MxzLMvsM&list=FL0lcnvIzoOxM6uQc-0VUhJg&feature=mh_lolz
   
  ...and doing your burn-in using different types of music is fine too.  or both.  this is a good one too...does a variety of
  pink noise, white noise, frequency sweeps etc., with a minute of rest in between.
   
http://www.jlabaudio.com/burn.php
   
  just don't go nuts with your volume...


----------



## ilikepooters

Voskhod 6N23P + HE5-LE


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> You have a link to a good pink noise source? Is burning it in with different genres of music bad?


 
   
http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_pinknoise.php
   
  I just burned a CD of that 15 minute file, they play it on repeat for hours on end.
   
  I also saved a digital file for burning in DACs and other component.
   
  No, different types of music are fine.  You don't need to have the volume all that high, if you have an old junker pair of headphones it's best to use them.  I've always had a load on my amp when burning in.


----------



## Alexnova

HE-500 - Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-mica
 If this ever comes up, I'm ready to throw down some good money for it. EDIT: Thanks for the pink noise links. So do these planar magnetic cans actually benefit from hearing this sort of noise? And at what volume should they be set to?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> HE-500 - Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-mica
> If this ever comes up, I'm ready to throw down some good money for it. EDIT: Thanks for the pink noise links. So do these planar magnetic cans actually benefit from hearing this sort of noise? And at what volume should they be set to?


 
  I have come to be convinced that headphones , loudspeakers, any sort of transducer can benefit from a bit of burning in, but I don't think that they require more than about 20 hours.
   
  But even if they do benefit from more, personally I'd just accomplish it by listening to music and enjoying life.
   
  I don't think the difference will be as pronounced as it is with valves.
   
  When I burn in headphones, I generally keep the volume moderate, maybe even lower than my normal listening level.
   
  Burning in valves, I do the same, I usually turn the volume even a bit lower, mostly because I don't want to hear pink noise while I'm sleeping.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Now if this list can be updated with the headphone that's paired with the above preferred tube, it could be like a go to guide for future reference. Here's one:
> HD650- Orange Globe late 60's o-getter


 
   
  Siemens & Halske E88CC CCa grey plates + Senn HD800; 10 out of 10 on my personal scale.
   
  Amperex 6922 pinched waist D-getters + HD800; also 10 out of 10.
   
  With the LCD-3's, the Siemens & Halske E88CC 1964 grey shields scored 9 out of 10. Best I've heard on the Lyr with these phones.
   
  Interestingly, to my ears, the famed Lorenz Stuttgart 3-micas only scored 5 out of 10 on the Lyr with both the HD800 and LCD-3.


----------



## OldSkool

r scott ireland said:


> Interestingly, to my ears, the famed Lorenz Stuttgart 3-micas only scored 5 out of 10 on the Lyr with both the HD800 and LCD-3.




GET THE PITCHFORKS!!!! 

Just kidding Scott! Thanks for your list, my friend


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I have come to be convinced that headphones , loudspeakers, any sort of transducer can benefit from a bit of burning in, but I don't think that they require more than about 20 hours.


 
   
  I'm not saying you're wrong, but the HE-500 manual says 150 hours.


----------



## Sanlitun

My Voskhod 6N23P's arrived today. These are the ones with the silver color untreated nickel getter stands so hope they sound good. 

I have some Telefunken coming too, but they so far seem to be lost in the mail.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> I'm not saying you're wrong, but the HE-500 manual says 150 hours.


 
  Well, I wouldn't dispute that, my experience has been that I don't hear any difference after about 20 hours, but I've never heard the HE-500s either.
   
  I know that you'll end up listening to your headphones for many thousands of happy hours, so after 20, just think of them as still breaking in, but I wouldn't avoid listening to them and enjoying them...


----------



## R Scott Ireland

oldskool said:


> GET THE PITCHFORKS!!!!
> 
> Just kidding Scott! Thanks for your list, my friend




Nothing so plebeian as Pitchforks, if you please. I prefer skewering by Trident


----------



## Zuckfun

Always look forward to that time of the night when I turn on the Lyr. Was only a couple of years ago I was listening to a discman on a pair of ATH-M50's. How things have changed...


----------



## tuna47

Received the Voskhod 6N23P's yesterday so far they sound great need more time to really judge


----------



## tuna47

Received the Voskhod 6N23P's yesterday so far they sound great need more time to really judge


----------



## nelamvr6

Listening to Concrete Blonde bootlegs, the OGs are really cooking tonight!


----------



## sceleratus

It's The Orange British invasion.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> It's The Orange British invasion.


 
  Are those the UK OGs?  
   
  (Lot of abbreviations in this post...)


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Are those the UK OGs?
> 
> (Lot of abbreviations in this post...)


 
  At the time these were made it was "Great Britain"
   
  They are warming as I type.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> At the time these were made it was "Great Britain"
> 
> They are warming as I type.


----------



## sceleratus

In the words of venerable Jed Clampit.......  OOOoooooo Doggie !


----------



## sceleratus

If mercedesman has another set of these:    BUY THEM


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> If mercedesman has another set of these:    BUY THEM


 
  Intriguing...


----------



## Zuckfun

sceleratus said:


> If mercedesman has another set of these:    BUY THEM


http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?index=0&sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=221233721744


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?index=0&sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=221233721744


 
  yup.
   
  MIne are 1969.
  They've been burned in for 30 minutes.


----------



## sceleratus

I gonna brag a tiny bit.....
   
  Lyr Bass:            Fiat 500
  DG 300B Bass:   Fully armored Humvee with turret mounted 50 cal
   
  Just say'n


----------



## nelamvr6

$100 for a matched pair?  Not bad...


----------



## Zuckfun

Now that the OG's have shown me how great an Amperex tube can be, it's tempting to wonder about the USN's. Very happy with where I'm at though (my wallet thinks so too). I rolled back in the Brimar's just to check. That didn't take long. OG's won by a landslide knockout.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Now that the OG's have shown me how great an Amperex tube can be, it's tempting to wonder about the USN's. Very happy with where I'm at though (my wallet thinks so too). I rolled back in the Brimar's just to check. That didn't take long. OG's won by a landslide knockout.


 
  Just remember, they're mostly all actually Philips tubes, don't want to start another big discussion...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  If you're talking about the USN-CEP 6922s they're also amazing tubes, but they aren't very similar to the OGs IMHO.  They don't have the fluid midrange, they remind me of really sweet solid state sound.  Hyper accurate, but not at all harsh, really nice soundstage.
   
  I have a pair I could lend you, just PM me.


----------



## Zuckfun

nelamvr6 said:


> Just remember, they're mostly all actually Philips tubes, don't want to start another big discussion...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thanks for your offer  By your description, it seems I'd like the OG's much more than the USN's. I don't think it gets much (or any) better than the OG's.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Thanks for your offer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, that was my problem with the RTCs, the RTCs reminded me a LOT of the USN-CEP 6922s.  They're both AMAZING tubes, but the whole reason I bought a tube amp was to get a "tubey" sound.  I was a straight-wire-with-gain guy for decades.  Just give me the truth, warts and all, I can handle it!
   
  But now that I've heard a bit of tube sound, I'm hooked!  You can say it's euphonic, but I'm not convinced that accuracy has to suffer, at least not all that much.


----------



## Zuckfun

nelamvr6 said:


> But now that I've heard a bit of tube sound, I'm hooked!  You can say it's euphonic, but I'm not convinced that accuracy has to suffer, at least not all that much.


 Well said...The OG's seem very accurate, but with the perfect amount of tubey-warmth euphony to make them extremely enjoyable to listen to. Amperex really got it right with this tube.


----------



## Argo Duck

(edited for brevity and impact )


----------



## rb2013

The 1967 Reflector saucer getters and the 1975 silver shield Voskhods arrived!  
   
  The Reflectors sounded really good - kind of on par with the 1980 VR silver.
   
  But then I put in the 1975 Voskhod silver shields...
  All I can say  -  they are the best 6922 tube I have ever heard. 
   
  Brand new they just blew me away!
   
  Totally entrancing, amazing rich tonality with the highest level of detail I have ever heard.  On my test recordings, I am hearing so deep into the mix, stuff I never knew was there is appearing.
   
  All with a captivating magic, sweet, sweet musicality, immense sound stage, pinpoint imaging, heart pounding dynamics.
   
  I have to stop here, as they don't even have 24 hours on them.
   
  I will be MIA from here for awhile - I just can't take my headphones off.  I have dozens of tracks to listen to...
   
  ~I want to thank this forum for getting me to renew my exploration of these amazing tubes...I wouldn't be here in audio nirvana without you~


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> The 1967 Reflector saucer getters and the 1975 silver shield Voskhods arrived!
> 
> The Reflectors sounded really good - kind of on par with the 1980 VR silver.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> The 1967 Reflector saucer getters and the 1975 silver shield Voskhods arrived!
> 
> The Reflectors sounded really good - kind of on par with the 1980 VR silver.
> 
> ...


 

 The '80 silver shields arrived today, Bob. Hope to give them a listen tonight.
   
  Enjoy those '75s!
   
  Cheers, JC


----------



## R Scott Ireland

With so many listening to Orange Globes recently, I realized that I hadn't listened to them in awhile. So, I spent the afternoon comparing a set of 1968 Orange Globe O-Getters to a set of USN-CEP's. I used Senn HD800's, Audeze LCD-3's and Denon AH-D7000's. Lyr/Bifrost-Uber stack.

First, I have to say that I only listen to classical; but I compared using various orchestral, chamber, choral/vocal and solo piano music.

The short version: in all of these categories, to my ears, the USN-CEP's are in a class above the OG's. Not in the class of the S&H CCa or Amperex pinched waists, but very high on my hit parade. BUT, I think I can see where for certain types of music, with certain headphones, the OG's can really shine. 

With the HD800 I immediately noticed a liquid warmth with the OG's; the bass and low-mids were very good. But to me, the mids and low-highs were a little recessed. This was most apparent with orchestral music. With violins - they were not quite as forward as they should have been in the mid-frequencies. Detail was good throughout, but the soundstage was shallow and wide, giving a very left/right feeling that was not ideal for orchestral music. This close presence of sound worked much better with chamber music/smaller ensemble. These tubes really gave me an "in-your-face" impression. I don't think HD800's are best with these tubes either. For orchestral 6/10. Chamber music/smaller ensemble/solos 7/10.

The OG's, especially the mids, were much better with the LCD-3's. Still a little laid back, especially with orchestral (still congested, lacking soundstage/air/height), but better. Piano music was nice with the HD800, but better with the LCD-3. Same with chamber music. Orchestral is just too crowded. Orchestral 7/10. Chamber/small ensemble/solo 8/10.

Finally, the D7000's. The best of the 3 for sheer musical enjoyment! The added bass and low-mids give a warm, liquid, lyrical presentation. The mids are still a little recessed, but so smooth that you just don't notice it as much (or care as much!). The warmth of these phones also tamed the highs a little, which I found musically pleasing. Even orchestral sounded good, except that in very dense passages with fast bass movement (Mahler 5) things got muddy/sloppy. Piano music was good, but there was a little treble resonance missing that gave the piano a not quite natural sound. All genres 8.5/10.

Then I went through the same sequence with the Amperex USN-CEP's. With the HD800 bass response was very fast with better separation in the instruments (more "air") than the Orange Globes. The sound seemed "purer" - I'm not sure how else to describe it - a better presentation. The soundstage was still not very deep (it was wide), but somehow it mattered less with these tubes. The mid-high and high frequencies sounded cleaner and more natural. Piano sounded more correct with all frequencies present. All genres 9/10.

With the LCD-3's - same comments. Overall better sound/presentation, albeit a little warmer with the LCD's; not quite as good as the HD800's on orchestral, but the slight added warmth makes chamber music (particularly with bright recordings) sound great; piano sounds great too, as does choral/vocal. Overall 9/10.

Now for the big surprise - the Denon D7000's - Warm, musical, lyrical, beautiful; similar comments to the OG's, but these are better - no sloppiness in fast bass passages; very clean, beautiful orchestral; cleaner highs; you really hear the biggest differences with these phones; chamber music, vocal and piano too - Wow!; All genres 10/10.


----------



## ilikepooters

Another type of construction i've stumbled upon.
  Voskhod 6N23P's with dual getter supports, and they have a big rocket logo, hard to see from this picture because the printing has faded, made in 69 and 70 respectively.

   
  Almost the same as the 70's silver shields but i'd say they have a hair more bass presence.


----------



## Brycicles

Someone stole the Orange Globes from under my nose this afternoon from [size=x-small]*mercedesman6572... *[/size] needless to say I was unhappy.. Is he a member on this forum? being such a tube enthusiast.


----------



## Zuckfun

r scott ireland said:


> With so many listening to Orange Globes recently, I realized that I hadn't listened to them in awhile. So, I spent the afternoon comparing a set of 1968 Orange Globe O-Getters to a set of USN-CEP's. I used Senn HD800's, Audeze LCD-3's and Denon AH-D7000's. Lyr/Bifrost-Uber stack.
> 
> First, I have to say that I only listen to classical; but I compared using various orchestral, chamber, choral/vocal and solo piano music.
> 
> ...


 Great write-up, and interesting, Thanks.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> With so many listening to Orange Globes recently, I realized that I hadn't listened to them in awhile. So, I spent the afternoon comparing a set of 1968 Orange Globe O-Getters to a set of USN-CEP's. I used Senn HD800's, Audeze LCD-3's and Denon AH-D7000's. Lyr/Bifrost-Uber stack.
> 
> First, I have to say that I only listen to classical; but I compared using various orchestral, chamber, choral/vocal and solo piano music.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I had a very similar experience with the  USN-CEPs, though I don't listen to a lot of classical.  In fact, they were my number one favorite tube for quite a while.
   
  I do listen to prog rock a lot, so I am acquainted with music with a lot going on at once.  But the acoustic nature of classical, and the extreme dynamic range, not to mention the broad frequency range, make it a very challenging test for any tube.
   
  The USN-CEPs, and for that matter the RTCs that sceleratus loves, are incredible tubes.  I freely admit that.
   
  But music without vocals, and music with an very wide frequency range, like classical, will not necessarily give the OGs their best chance to shine.  To me their most endearing aspect is that magic midrange.
   
  Just out of curiosity, did you include any opera in your audition?
   
  In reality, you're gonna be in great shape with any of these tubes, the OGs, the USN-CEPs, or the RTCs.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

zuckfun said:


> Great write-up, and interesting, Thanks.




My pleasure! It's always fun listening to such great tubes.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nelamvr6 said:


> I had a very similar experience with the  USN-CEPs, though I don't listen to a lot of classical.  In fact, they were my number one favorite tube for quite a while.
> 
> I do listen to prog rock a lot, so I am acquainted with music with a lot going on at once.  But the acoustic nature of classical, and the extreme dynamic range, not to mention the broad frequency range, make it a very challenging test for any tube.
> 
> ...




I did listen to Beethoven's Missa solemnis, more like a cantata than an opera, but the vocal soloists (soprano, alto, tenor and bass) sounded good with both sets of tubes - the OG's sounding good with the warmer headphones.

I suspect, based on my listening today, that the OG's really shine best with the warmer headphones. I think that's why I liked them so much with the D7000's (re-cabled with Moon Black Dragon wire) and next with the LCD-3's. I bet they would mate even better with LCD-2's.


----------



## Overwerk

ok, so i took quite some plunge recently with tubes:
   
  1. bought the last pair of oranges from Mr mercedezman(absoolutely the best tube specialist on ebay, PROPS, strongly recommended for everyone to go buy his stuff)
   
  AMAZING!! the amount of speed and detail is phenomenal.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/321138597034?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
   
  the bass, OMG, What, holy ****, WOW!
   
  sadly for others it's the last pair he was selling.
   
  Have these little sister 5 years younger coming in. A frame instead of o frame, wondering how they will bedazzle me.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/321141845531?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
   
   
   
  2. TELEFUKENS!
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/290904826507?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
   
  extremely neutral, not a hint of coloration. detail is off the charts, soundstage is natural and xpansive therefore making seperation effortless, yet the soundstage is so 3D making everything work together intimately.
   
   
  3. matsu****as, obviously. from tubemonger, sadly I bought them before their May sale, still it's not too crazy expensive and I believe it's their bestseller and what they touted "best buy"
   
  I would call this a mini telefunken with much more emotion to them. I have listened to them quite a while, and they surely are the workhorse. they are very mid centric, a great match to further the AKG magic. I enjoy them a lot.
  They are available both on ebay and on tubemonger, sold by tubemonger.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsu****a-E88CC-6922-Japan-NOS-NIB-Mullard-Tooling-MPs-/160292251806
  http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
   
  I don't think they are unbeatable at the price though. For bassheads and high fanatics there are better choices, and and a large amount of detail is lacking comparing to higher tier tubes such as telefunken.
   
  they just lack the overall presence of an expansive soundstage and feels very thin  comparing to peers. But again, their strength is in the mid. A must have for people who listen mainly to light music such as female vocals singers and new age/light classical pieces
   
  another nitpick is that these things look ugly and the red letterings got flaked off easily(although I have used them for a while it's not like I scrub them on a daily basis and they are all smudged and I can't tell a single letter any more, I don't remember how they looked like when I got them but I am sure I can find pictures taken as proof, but those links can give you an idea--when new the MADE IN JAPAN is pretty cool, except it never last long at all)
   
  4. stock lyr tubes before they changed to e88cc was GE 6bz7, very noisy tubes, Jason sent me a second pair and they are still noisy. I picked 2 tubes out of the 4 I have that are less noisy, but I still don't  ever use them for music. 
   
  5, JJ e88cc, largely available for 10-15$ a pop and 20-30$ a pair. Solid entry level tubes, nothing amazing about them.


----------



## OmsJtmz32

overwerk said:


> ok, so i took quite some plunge recently with tubes:
> 
> 1. bought the last pair of oranges from Mr mercedezman(absoolutely the best tube specialist on ebay, PROPS, strongly recommended for everyone to go buy his stuff)
> 
> ...


 
Agree that the GE tubes are very noisy, but still i managed to use it for one month before changing to the exact OG tubes that u said it is sold out. Lucky i order last week haha now waiting for it to arrive


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





omsjtmz32 said:


> Agree that the GE tubes are very noisy, but still i managed to use it for one month before changing to the exact OG tubes that u said it is sold out. Lucky i order last week haha now waiting for it to arrive


 
  how come it took so long? I ordered the last pair and I got it a few days ago and you still don't have it? What? where do you live bro
   
  oh singapore nvm


----------



## Overwerk

So anyone know why this miniwatt thing is highly sought after|?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-E88CC-Gold-Pins-NIB-NOS-Pair-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-/251294243186?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEDWX%3AIT&nma=true&si=o4t08HDgpOSol%252FqsA6jc0Jxp5QQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
   
  i bidded like till 60 bucks and there were 3 people bidding together at the last 5 seconds and they all bidded 100$+, What? 
   
  There is only one close picture of these, sure they look like they are never used, ,although the seller claim they have 10 hours on them. They look cool, but they don't look like, nor did the seller claim they are anything close to "matched pair". 
   
  The other pictures doesn't show whether these are SQ or not. If they are SQ then they should be worth way more than 120 bucks, but if they are not--are there miniwatts that are not SQ? I am sure no?
   
  PLEASE someone who knows about these tell me that 120 bucks is overkill for these so I don't feel bad 0.0


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> ok, so i took quite some plunge recently with tubes:
> 
> 1. bought the last pair of oranges from Mr mercedezman(absoolutely the best tube specialist on ebay, PROPS, strongly recommended for everyone to go buy his stuff)
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I'll be curious to hear your opinions of the O getters versus the A Frames...


----------



## HK_sends

For anyone interested:
   
http://stores.ebay.com/jimbargins123/_i.html?_nkw=e188cc&submit=Search&_sid=1048181327
   
  Got this tipper from TubeMonger...they said the price is good.  Neither TubeMonger nor I are affiliated with this seller in any way.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> For anyone interested:
> 
> http://stores.ebay.com/jimbargins123/_i.html?_nkw=e188cc&submit=Search&_sid=1048181327
> 
> ...


 
  what's special about these tubes? i saw them, probably wil not beat telefunkens ?|


----------



## Overwerk

sick of tube hunting on ebay, 
   
  i just found some cheap telefunkens sold by upscale audio.
   
  ordered cryo platinum teles ​  from 
  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-E88CC-%7B47%7D-6922.html 
  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-E88CC-%7B47%7D-6922.html
  for 274 bucks
   
   
  about the same price I paid for what seem to be regular teles sold by tubemuseum.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/290904826507?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
  I regret having bought there a few days ago but oh well. Doesn't matter now if I could have bought them for 180 bucks as regular grade tubes with no cryo treatment from upscale-.-they are what you would call best of the best tubes, so I guess I should not be cheap on them--so I went for cryo and platinum instead of taking advantage of the cheaper pricing
   
  Anyone can tell if  ( i bought the second pair) are comparable to the upscale audio ones? I have no idea how you can tell which telefunkens are better, they all seem the same except the upscale ones obviously look much newer, or at least from the picture, who knows how many they have and they probably won't even tell you information on the cryo treatment or the results they got for that platinum certification.
   
  also ordered these for end game cryo gold ions
   
  http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=81&products_id=324&osCsid=120e2b1e84df8fe47fba3f0f30c1edd2
   
  I already received these but still haven't listened to it much
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/400505220853?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
  going to compare these seemingly regular lions to the super cryo ones above.
   
  have these coming in
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/161055748879?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/350817155962?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 as end game dampers
   
  I was about to  buy this 
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/390615723907?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
   
  but it seems like they were sold at 60 bucks lowest and this particular listing takes 1.5 month max to get to my place which is absurd so it will have to pass. Not much props heard about these green military JAN amperex 6922 anyways--if i am correct these things should have the globe UFO figure too, as seen on other listings such as this one
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-Amperex-Globe-6922-6DJ8-tubes-gold-pin-/111048271232?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19dafe2580&nma=true&si=o4t08HDgpOSol%252FqsA6jc0Jxp5QQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
   
   
  TLDR/.moral of the story
   
  bought a bunch of ****, made a bunch of mistakes, but I tried, and now I am burnt out mentally physically and financially and I am good to sit back and enjoy the music, oh no wait, i still have 10 pages of tubes on watch list on ebay, some 10 listings outbid, shall I ignore?
   
  I think enough is enough. 
   
  I hope people can learn from my experience...just my 2 cents
   
  oh, and as I speak I just ordered these cryo-ed platinum grade
  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsu****a-national-pcc88-7dj8/ (link does not work, but the item should be still available, the upscale audio website links gets funky)
   
  for a subtotal of 86 bucks..OMG what is wrong with me.--
   
  after i bought them telefunkens I checked the 37 reviews, and found at least one other LYR owner who bought the exact same thing. CHEERS
   
  All the meanwhile I am listening to some Kertesz/ancerl/kubelik/paray/neumann Dvorak From the New World 9th symphony.


----------



## tuna47

I have the orange globe Aframes very nice never had o getters so can not compare


----------



## R Scott Ireland

The A frames I have seem to sound their best with the Senn HD650.


----------



## GermanGuy

just posted a very efficient way to clean tube pins in another thread, but maybe some of the tube rolling thread members are interested in my solution, so just crossposting the link here:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/632518/analog-paper-2-discussion-and-appreciation-thread/630#post_9573905


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> The A frames I have seem to sound their best with the Senn HD650.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I have the orange globe Aframes very nice never had o getters so can not compare


 
  nice to hear! I suppose that if o frames are priced more they should sound better, but my O pair is newer looking than the o frame coming in.
   
  either way I believe comparison is going to be due to you guys.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





germanguy said:


> just posted a very efficient way to clean tube pins in another thread, but maybe some of the tube rolling thread members are interested in my solution, so just crossposting the link here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/632518/analog-paper-2-discussion-and-appreciation-thread/630#post_9573905


 
  sounds like you are a tube pro, what could you tell me about the necessity of cleaning pins? I can see some non gold ones I have are not what you could call shining new steel, but does that even matter? I am using the 50 buck a pair socket savers so I really don't mind(they are available as cosmetic imperfect pairs for 30 too on ebay), 
   
  the only reason I am not cleaning them is because I currently can't find my exacto knife among my boxes from moving. Does sound suffer from dirty pins? What qualify as dirty or cleaning worthy?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> sick of tube hunting on ebay,
> 
> i just found some cheap telefunkens sold by upscale audio.
> 
> ...


 
  Those dampers you ordered look pretty cool, but I hope you already have socket savers, or you won't be able to use them.
   
  You've had a LOT of activity!  Time to rest a bit and take stock.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





germanguy said:


> just posted a very efficient way to clean tube pins in another thread, but maybe some of the tube rolling thread members are interested in my solution, so just crossposting the link here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/632518/analog-paper-2-discussion-and-appreciation-thread/630#post_9573905


 
  Interesting.  Thanks for the link!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> sounds like you are a tube pro, what could you tell me about the necessity of cleaning pins? I can see some non gold ones I have are not what you could call shining new steel, but does that even matter? I am using the 50 buck a pair socket savers so I really don't mind(they are available as cosmetic imperfect pairs for 30 too on ebay),
> 
> the only reason I am not cleaning them is because I currently can't find my exacto knife among my boxes from moving. Does sound suffer from dirty pins? What qualify as dirty or cleaning worthy?


 
  Dirty pins can create connection issues.  this can manifest itself as noise, and if bad enough, malfunction.
   
  After cleaning my pins, I like to put a bit of Deoxit on.  It keeps the pins clean so the connection stays good, and it makes insertion and extraction easier.
   
http://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT-25cc-Precision-Dispenser-100%25/dp/B0000YH6F8/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1372618502&sr=8-15&keywords=deoxit
   
  It should be noted that you shouldn't scrape any gold plated pins, just clean with a solvent like isopropyl alcohol. Then apply the Deoxit.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Dirty pins can create connection issues.  this can manifest itself as noise, and if bad enough, malfunction.
> 
> After cleaning my pins, I like to put a bit of Deoxit on.  It keeps the pins clean so the connection stays good, and it makes insertion and extraction easier.
> 
> ...


 
  do i HAVE to worry about this tho?
   
  btw do you know what kind of allen wrench is needed if the volumn knob came off loose and fail to function?
   
1/16" allen wrench is what jason told me to get. I had something from RC truck bashing hobby similar to 1/16" allen wrench that was a tad smaller that I used before, but I can't find that tinny little thing among all my **** so going to hardware store in a bit


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> what's special about these tubes? i saw them, probably wil not beat telefunkens ?|


 
  Amperex 7308s are an all-around good sounding tube.  They have a good sound that doesn't overly emphasize any particular aspect...the mids and treble are very smooth.  A nice "general listening" tube.  Other than that, I just posted them as a courtesy to folks looking for tubes.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> *do i HAVE to worry about this tho?*
> 
> btw do you know what kind of allen wrench is needed if the volumn knob came off loose and fail to function?
> 
> 1/16" allen wrench is what jason told me to get. I had something from RC truck bashing hobby similar to 1/16" allen wrench that was a tad smaller that I used before, but I can't find that tinny little thing among all my **** so going to hardware store in a bit


 
  Unless you actually run into an issue of noise, no.  I have deoxit myself and only ever used it on a couple of tubes with very obvious corrosion on the pins.  If I do get noise issues the first thing I do is pull, swap, and reinstall the tubes...that's usually enough to ensure good contact with the pins.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Alexnova

Hey guys, I've been fielding some classifieds recently of those interested to buy an HE-500 from someone.
   
  With the OG's that I have, I am really looking at selling my HE-500 and purchasing the Audeze LCD-2. Is it really worth the couple hundred extra for them? I am not sure if the HE-500 is a good match with the OG, IMO.
   
  Maybe more burn in is necessary, I don't know.


----------



## Overwerk

so i got the 1.5 ones and they are obviously smaller than 1/16. they barely works, but not exactly, they will secure it, but it's going to be an effort and it will rip the set screw eventually i am sure if you do it a lot.
   
  On the other hand getting a 1/16 screw is going to be more of a permanent solution. I did notice however the set screw left some { } marks on the shaft.


----------



## Zuckfun

alexnova said:


> Hey guys, I've been fielding some classifieds recently of those interested to buy an HE-500 from someone.
> 
> With the OG's that I have, I am really looking at selling my HE-500 and purchasing the Audeze LCD-2. Is it really worth the couple hundred extra for them? I am not sure if the HE-500 is a good match with the OG, IMO.
> 
> Maybe more burn in is necessary, I don't know.


 I would read the headphone reviews here to help decide about the LCD-2's:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13

I also wouldn't give up on the HE-500's solely because of the OG's. They may not pair well with these particular headphones.


----------



## Alexnova

Yeah I think I am going to roll back to the stock GE tubes I have because I was getting a much thicker, lusher sound.
   
  But I am sort of set on acquiring the LCD 2s though.


----------



## Zuckfun

alexnova said:


> Yeah I think I am going to roll back to the stock GE tubes I have because I was getting a much thicker, lusher sound.
> 
> But I am sort of set on acquiring the LCD 2s though.


 It doesn't sound like they're burned in enough. The more they're burned in, the clearer and more refined they become. All that said, it may just not be the ideal tube for the 500's. The OG's and the LCD-2 seems like a much different story however.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Yeah I think I am going to roll back to the stock GE tubes I have because I was getting a much thicker, lusher sound.
> 
> But I am sort of set on acquiring the LCD 2s though.


 
  impossible, i love the og with the x1 and x1 sounds similar to he500 to my ears


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> It doesn't sound like they're burned in enough. The more they're burned in, the clearer and more refined they become. All that said, it may just not be the ideal tube for the 500's. The OG's and the LCD-2 seems like a much different story however.


 
  Yeah it does seem to be a much different story which is bizarre because aren't they planar magnetics? It shouldn't be that much of a difference *shrugs*
   
  And Overwork, I will keep playing them and see if they improve.


----------



## Zuckfun

alexnova said:


> Yeah it does seem to be a much different story which is bizarre because aren't they planar magnetics? It shouldn't be that much of a difference *shrugs*
> 
> And Overwork, I will keep playing them and see if they improve.


 Letting them cool off is important also. I would do 6-8 hours on, cool off for an hour. After letting them cool, try firing it up and giving them a listen.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Unless you actually run into an issue of noise, no.  I have deoxit myself and only ever used it on a couple of tubes with very obvious corrosion on the pins.  If I do get noise issues the first thing I do is pull, swap, and reinstall the tubes...that's usually enough to ensure good contact with the pins.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  I'm a big believer in prevention being better than cure.
   
  The cure you're describing tends to indicate that you had dirty pins. If you used Deoxit, you wouldn't have that problem in the first place.


----------



## Sanlitun

mhamel said:


> Can't stress this enough on the Brimar 6BQ7A tubes... give them plenty of burn-in before passing judgement on the sound.   When I first bought these, I rolled them in and thought they were awful.   Other people have had the same experience.   After only 7-8 hours there was a noticeable difference in sound quality, and after a couple of days of use they really settled in well.   They are excellent sounding tubes once burned in.
> 
> -Mike




Really enjoying the Brimar 6BQ7A. Great top to bottom response and tonality along with some bass slam if you want it.

After a couple weeks with them now I would rate them as superior to the Matsu****a 6922's I have been running for a while. I found the Brimars have improved with age and the Matsuschiitas haven't.

The Brimars have a nice glow as well, and look great in the Lyr.


----------



## NightFlight

mrscary said:


> Of all the CCa S&H's I have had which is over 40 + sets I have only had one or two sets extremely microphonic I will say something to twist your noodle a bit since I saw nightflight mentioned me .. I feel special I am still remembered HAHA.  Anyway microphonic tubes may not always be a bad thing some tubes are more or less microphonic and for purposes beyond being a preamp stage in a Amp such as the Lyr (solid state amp tube pre-amp design) depending on other uses that very Microphonic tube could be very tasty or not.. hehe. I will not explain how or why just kinda like to throw out tidbits to get everyone to think..
> 
> 
> 
> §





Of course your remembered. You made how many posts? lol  


I finally found something which explains you reference to microphonic tubes not necessarily being a bad thing.

*"Can a tube be too low in microphony? Sometimes a little bit of microphony can be a good thing! In my opinion, tubes that have a smidge of microphony can lead to a sense of “air” or depth in soundstage. Using tube dampers can decrease, or even eliminate microphonics, but it can also remove that air and depth. Some folks don't mind that, others do. If you have tube dampers, try using your tubes with them, then listen to the same tracks without, and make a judgement call... there's no right or wrong answer here."*


----------



## Zuckfun

Alexnova, hope the orangle globes improved for you. I sure am enjoying them. If these cans are rockin', please come a-knockin!


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Of course your remembered. You made how many posts? lol
> 
> 
> I finally found something which explains you reference to microphonic tubes not necessarily being a bad thing.
> ...


 
  why does this look like something coming from upscale audio


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Really enjoying the Brimar 6BQ7A. Great top to bottom response and tonality along with some bass slam if you want it.
> 
> After a couple weeks with them now I would rate them as superior to the Matsu****a 6922's I have been running for a while. I found the Brimars have improved with age and the Matsuschiitas haven't.
> 
> The Brimars have a nice glow as well, and look great in the Lyr.


 
  link to this brimars you are talking about?


----------



## NightFlight

overwerk said:


> why does this look like something coming from upscale audio


...


I quoted it. I just forgot to cite it. I was hanging out there today... no reason. Just because.


----------



## Brycicles

So I have this slight ting-ingness going on. At first it started on the right side then I switched out the tubes and it was fine all day and then it starts again. I can't quite isolate it this time. I blame the stock tubes...


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





brycicles said:


> So I have this slight ting-ingness going on. At first it started on the right side then I switched out the tubes and it was fine all day and then it starts again. I can't quite isolate it this time. I blame the stock tubes...


 
  which stock tube are you using? i am guessing it'snot the e88cc ones and you bought a used one from soneone else?


----------



## Brycicles

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> which stock tube are you using? i am guessing it'snot the e88cc ones and you bought a used one from soneone else?


 
  No I was told to stay away from the stock JJ e88cc's I have the GE 6bz7's. And nope bought it new direct from Schiit.


----------



## Zuckfun

brycicles said:


> No I was told to stay away from the stock JJ e88cc's I have the GE 6bz7's. And nope bought it new direct from Schiit.


 Not sure if anything screams upgrade louder than the stock tubes of the Lyr.


----------



## Brycicles

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Not sure if anything screams upgrade louder than the stock tubes of the Lyr.


 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221193383219?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
   
  In the mail now


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





brycicles said:


> No I was told to stay away from the stock JJ e88cc's I have the GE 6bz7's. And nope bought it new direct from Schiit.


 
  then you should have known about it long time ago that it is noisy from start


----------



## sceleratus

Winner winner, chicken dinner.
Doz B da kind mon


----------



## sceleratus

Microphonics.
My tiny men are microphonic when nothing is playing., but they are so sweet when there is.


----------



## Brycicles

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> then you should have known about it long time ago that it is noisy from start


 
  That stocks are junk er what?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





brycicles said:


> That stocks are junk er what?


 
  i have 2 pairs of that stock tube that got noisy after a while. that was a year ago when I bought some replacement e88cc tubes. 
   
  e88cc tubes were and are everywhere for 20-30 bucksc like i said in earlier post. 
   
   
  when i got them I instantly perceived an upgrade, very very apparent.
   
  e88cc remains the best low fi tubes for lyr.
   
  I was just wondering how you can possibly have owned lyr for more than 1 year and just realized now that the tubes are noisy. maybe you just got a nice pair and maybe you just didn't use it much, but seems you are reluctant to say-.-


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Microphonics.
> My tiny men are microphonic when nothing is playing., but they are so sweet when there is.


 
  The same problem I had.  But mine were worse, I could hear the noise even with low levels of music playing.
   
  Hey, it's bound to happen a few times, we're dealing with so truly old devices...


----------



## Alexnova

So, I have been listening to the OG's for hours these past two days and I come away with three things that irk me. 

 The first is that any recording that has drums, are very recessed. Almost to the point they are on a second layer beneath the mids. On my stock GE tubes you do not hear this, it is exactly where it should be in the mix. My other headphones are the same way as far as hearing the drums on the same level as the other instruments. There also seems to be a tonality issue as well.

 Second is I am noticing missing detail on particular recordings. On the song "Treefingers" by Radiohead, right in the middle of the song there is this faint slide guitar the goes from the R to L. I can hear this on my other cans and on the GE tubes. But the OGs do not pick this up. There are other recordings where slight details are missing as well.

 Thirdly, the bass is weaker than the GE tubes. I know the HE-500 has been somewhat criticszed for its bass being somewhat flabby, but considering I have heard raves over a liquid tight bass on the OG, I am disappointed. 

 I also know the HE-500 are not noted for their imaging, but this flaw becomes more apparent with the OGs.

 When I first used the OG, I was sort of amazed by the quality. In fact, the bass was actually extremely good when I fired it up for the first time. But after the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. it seems to me it has lost that sort of magic and these tubes are a bit ho-hum.

 I do plan on getting the LCD2's next month, so I am going to keep the OGs for now.

 But I can confirm what others have said before, these aren't a good match with the HE-500. Of course take this with a grain of salt until I spend about 50 hours or more with them.


----------



## Zuckfun

alexnova said:


> So, I have been listening to the OG's for hours these past two days and I come away with three things that irk me.
> 
> The first is that any recording that has drums, are very recessed. Almost to the point they are on a second layer beneath the mids. On my stock GE tubes you do not hear this, it is exactly where it should be in the mix. My other headphones are the same way as far as hearing the drums on the same level as the other instruments. There also seems to be a tonality issue as well.
> 
> ...


 On a notice that comes with the tubes, mercedesman mentions that some tubes require up to 50 hours of burn-in time. I found this to nearly be true with the OG's. The fact you mention how great they sounded on your initial impressions, leads me to think they're still not burned in enough. I would expect the performance level to atleast match your initial impressions after the 45-50 hour mark.


----------



## Alexnova

Ok I got it. BTW Zuckfun, did my post have spaces in between it or did it look like a big paragraph as you quoted above? I tried using "br" to break it up but not sure what you see on your end. Thanks.


----------



## Zuckfun

alexnova said:


> Ok I got it. BTW Zuckfun, did my post have spaces in between it or did it look like a big paragraph as you quoted above? I tried using "br" to break it up but not sure what you see on your end. Thanks.


 It did have spaces- For some reason when I quoted it, it just became one long paragraph. Strange (fixed it)


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> The same problem I had.  But mine were worse, I could hear the noise even with low levels of music playing.
> 
> Hey, it's bound to happen a few times, we're dealing with so truly old devices...


 
  Your tiny men?
   
  I'm not going to fart with them.  You are correct-o-mundo.  55 year old glass.


----------



## Sanlitun

alexnova said:


> When I first used the OG, I was sort of amazed by the quality. In fact, the bass was actually extremely good when I fired it up for the first time. But after the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. it seems to me it has lost that sort of magic and these tubes are a bit ho-hum.




I feel there is something inherent in human psychology that often confuses change with an improvement. I have been through similar experiences with many tubes and it is only after some sober and continuous use and then a change back to my original configuration can I really pass judgement. 

As well there have been times recently now that the weather is better that I am outside with my PMP listening to the same music and I am struck by either how different the presentation is or that I am actually missing considerable detail and nuance on my Lyr rig back home. It can be incredibly frustrating to find there are times when I actually enjoy music more via my PMP or computer speakers rather than through my increasingly expensive headphone rig. The worry is that I am actually becoming accustomed to inaccurate sound via the headphones.

For me the desirable tube sound is one with flat response and realistic dynamics and without euphonic distortion. The dynamics is the one thing that tubes can do somewhat easily that can only be matched by high end and expensive transistor amps. Out of my entire collection I have maybe 3 pairs of tubes that can meet this requirement and I suppose its unlikely I can find more without some pretty time consuming effort.


----------



## rb2013

Quick update on the '75 Voskhod Rockets:
   
  Had a chance to listen to the gray shield version -  not expecting much.
   
  Well I was blown away!
   
  They are a bit different then the '75 V-R silvers, they have this incredibly liquid sound! 
   
  It not like any 6922 I've heard yet - the music has just this natural flow to it, it kind of sweeps you away.  All with great detail - maybe not as neutral as the silvers, a bit euphonic (not micro-phonic!), like a good 300b vs a KT-88 amp.  They have the widest, deepest sound stage yet.  I mean it's side wall to side wall and 20 ft deep.
   
  The closest I can compare, was when I put Tellurium Q Ultra Black cable in my main system (with speakers), the sound just flowed with such ease.
  http://www.telluriumq.com/
   
  I'm really trying to wrap my head around both of these - incredible, simply incredible!
   
  PS - thanks for all the positive feedback I have been getting on the 1980's silver rockets!  Glad you all like them so much.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> I feel there is something inherent in human psychology that often confuses change with an improvement. I have been through similar experiences with many tubes and it is only after some sober and continuous use and then a change back to my original configuration can I really pass judgement.
> 
> As well there have been times recently now that the weather is better that I am outside with my PMP listening to the same music and I am struck by either how different the presentation is or that I am actually missing considerable detail and nuance on my Lyr rig back home. It can be incredibly frustrating to find there are times when I actually enjoy music more via my PMP or computer speakers rather than through my increasingly expensive headphone rig. The worry is that I am actually becoming accustomed to inaccurate sound via the headphones.
> 
> For me the desirable tube sound is one with flat response and realistic dynamics and without euphonic distortion. The dynamics is the one thing that tubes can do somewhat easily that can only be matched by high end and expensive transistor amps. Out of my entire collection I have maybe 3 pairs of tubes that can meet this requirement and I suppose its unlikely I can find more without some pretty time consuming effort.


 
  what tubes are you running with now? links to brimars maybe?
   
  thanks good sir


----------



## Zuckfun

sanlitun said:


> I am actually missing considerable detail and nuance on my Lyr rig back home. It can be incredibly frustrating to find there are times when I actually enjoy music more via my PMP or computer speakers rather than through my increasingly expensive headphone rig. The worry is that I am actually becoming accustomed to inaccurate sound via the headphones.



I listen to a cd player that has a built-in headphone amplifier. This is how I gauge how effective the Lyr is, considering my two headphones are easily driven. With some tubes, the cd's headphone amplifier outperforms the Lyr in terms of clarity, although the Lyr always wins in terms of dynamics. It is frustrating that a cd player which has an amplifier as an added feature can outperform the Lyr on occasion. It's the tubes. These are some of the most neutral and clear tubes I've heard in my limited experience:

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Ediswan-CV2492-%7B47%7D-6922.html

Not sure if these would beat Telefunken's. But if you're craving a flat response, maybe worth it to check these out, very clear natural sounding tubes.


----------



## Sanlitun

overwerk said:


> what tubes are you running with now? links to brimars maybe?
> 
> thanks good sir




Right now I am running Telefunken E88CC which are one of my fave pairs.

The Brimars are here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/151042693962?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 

They are certainly worth the price and do seem to age well.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Right now I am running Telefunken E88CC which are one of my fave pairs.
> 
> The Brimars are here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/151042693962?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> They are certainly worth the price and do seem to age well.


 
  what's the deal with people selling unquoted non documented or tested teles for 200 bucks for 2 pairs, when I paid 270 bucks for a pair on tubemuseumusa, which was even on sale.--and then there were also other legit ones for 200 a pair, ---and nobody seem to indicate that there should be any standard that different make or kind or date or condition dictate the price of them...i mean if people have never bought tons of telefunkens before how are they supposed to know which ones are good? Sure ebay is supposed to be a place where you get stuff for cheap cus you know about stuff, but it's even worse than buying stuff on the street in a way because the pictures and the descriptions can all be faked--i mean obviously there is reputation on the line but with almost everyone having 99% or higher rating it just seem too good to be true that I won't get screwed one day buying from someone--is every seller on ebay with like a lot of stars lots of sales good rating just going to be honest traders? what about those with just a couple hundred stars and only a couple stuff on sale or a couple sales history tracable...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> what's the deal with people selling unquoted non documented or tested teles for 200 bucks for 2 pairs, when I paid 270 bucks for a pair on tubemuseumusa, which was even on sale.--and then there were also other legit ones for 200 a pair, ---and nobody seem to indicate that there should be any standard that different make or kind or date or condition dictate the price of them...i mean if people have never bought tons of telefunkens before how are they supposed to know which ones are good? Sure ebay is supposed to be a place where you get stuff for cheap cus you know about stuff, but it's even worse than buying stuff on the street in a way because the pictures and the descriptions can all be faked--i mean obviously there is reputation on the line but with almost everyone having 99% or higher rating it just seem too good to be true that I won't get screwed one day buying from someone--is every seller on ebay with like a lot of stars lots of sales good rating just going to be honest traders? what about those with just a couple hundred stars and only a couple stuff on sale or a couple sales history tracable...


 
  I can't speak to the rest but tubemuseumusa has always asked for a premium price on tubes...usually 25-30% above what the average asking prices are.  I don't know what the premium gets you other than...maybe...peace of mind.
   
  *Edit* I see your point was more toward the fact that people are selling tubes without offering any reasonably good information on them.  Unfortunately, it happens all the time and it really is a crap shoot.
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I can't speak to the rest but tubemuseumusa has always asked for a premium price on tubes...usually 25-30% above what the average asking prices are.  I don't know what the premium gets you other than...maybe...peace of mind.
> 
> *Edit* I see your point was more toward the fact that people are selling tubes without offering any reasonably good information on them.  Unfortunately, it happens all the time and it really is a crap shoot.
> Cheers!
> ...


 
  well I should have known, and I did check later that they charge restocking fee, sadly. and sadly ebay does not cover that obviously pfft.
   
   
    the cynicism is not the fault, the people being real is the fault. Oh wait, who am I to blame people. I should just be the nice real guy if I ever want to be treated likewise huh--it would be a crime to just take and not give out. how's that for peace of mind -.-


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> well I should have known, and I did check later that they charge restocking fee, sadly. and sadly ebay does not cover that obviously pfft.
> 
> 
> the cynicism is not the fault, the people being real is the fault. Oh wait, who am I to blame people. I should just be the nice real guy if I ever want to be treated likewise huh--it would be a crime to just take and not give out. how's that for peace of mind -.-
 
  I agree with what you were saying.  I've actually been very lucky with my dealings on ebay but we all have to remember "_caveat emptor_" and weigh the risk vs. the gain.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I agree with what you were saying.  I've actually been very lucky with my dealings on ebay but we all have to remember "_caveat emptor_" and weigh the risk vs. the gain.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
  i am not in the sales business, but i assume whoever invented the convention of "customer satisfaction" made a contribution, but it probably never gets out of the end goal of profiting anyways. So in a way it's a lie.
   
  If i were to go out there all of a sudden to sell stuff to strangers, what makes me want to rip them off? WHat makes me want to give them a deal? I wouldn't do either.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Another type of construction i've stumbled upon.
> Voskhod 6N23P's with dual getter supports, and they have a big rocket logo, hard to see from this picture because the printing has faded, made in 69 and 70 respectively.
> 
> 
> Almost the same as the 70's silver shields but i'd say they have a hair more bass presence.


 
  I have 1967 pr - they are pretty good - on par with the single post 1980s silver VRs.  These dual post versions are very similar to the early Reflectors.

   
  To my ears not as good as the single post silver 79's - and not in the same league as these amazing single post VR '75s -silver or gray.
   
  I was listening to those 1975 Voskhod grays last night  - for 5 hours!  That is the longest I have ever listened to music on headphones - ever.  Just could not take them off - old tracks - **** whole albums went by - I was just mesmerized!   And they have only 24 hours on them!  As they burn -in they get sweeter and more detailed - the sound stage already huge just keeps getting deeper.
   
  Just found a pr of 1972 single post V-Rs!   Can't wait to hear those!!


----------



## Hedonism

Hey, I'm going to be buying a Lyr second hand, and the guy is including some tubes (at extra cost for me) that he got that make me scratch my head. Is using Philips ECC89 with stock savers a viable option?
   
  When I asked him about it, this is what he said: "[size=medium]The ecc89 have different pin with ecc88  that is why I am useing the stock saver to make it work with ecc88 unit. This tube is made from mullard factory just same with mullard ecc88 but lot cheaper a good nos mullard ecc88 will cost about $200 , I got this pair new for only about $80 . "[/size]
   
  Can someone confirm or deny this? I don't know too much about tubes, so I want a little bit of knowledge before diving headfirst into this.


----------



## Zuckfun

hedonism said:


> Hey, I'm going to be buying a Lyr second hand, and the guy is including some tubes (at extra cost for me) that he got that make me scratch my head. Is using Philips ECC89 with stock savers a viable option?
> 
> When I asked him about it, this is what he said: "[size=medium]The ecc89 have different pin with ecc88  that is why I am useing the stock saver to make it work with ecc88 unit. This tube is made from mullard factory just same with mullard ecc88 but lot cheaper a good nos mullard ecc88 will cost about $200 , I got this pair new for only about $80 . "[/size]
> 
> ...


 I don't know enough to respond to your question, but regarding compatibility issues, your best (and safest) bet is to contact Schiit directly:

info@schiit.com

They'll get back to you promptly


----------



## ilikepooters

ECC89 is a different pin-out, it sounds like the socket savers that are coming with your tubes have been re-wired, similar to something i did, to make the tubes pin-compatible.
   
  Basically ECC89 has 3 cathode connections versus ECC88's 2
   
  ECC89 pin-out as follows, notice once of the triodes has 2 cathode connections, and lacks a shield pin.
   
  K2
  G2
  A2
  Heater
  Heater
  G1
  K1
  K1
  A1
   
  ECC88 pin-out as follows:
   
  A2
  G2
  K2
  Heater
  Heater
  A1
  G1
  K1
  Shield
   
  I'd love to see inside the socket saver you're being sent, that'll be one hell of a maze of wires to correct that pin-out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If an adaptor could be made, that's one hell of a cheap 6DJ8 alternative.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hedonism said:


> Hey, I'm going to be buying a Lyr second hand, and the guy is including some tubes (at extra cost for me) that he got that make me scratch my head. Is using Philips ECC89 with stock savers a viable option?
> 
> When I asked him about it, this is what he said: "[size=medium]The ecc89 have different pin with ecc88  that is why I am useing the stock saver to make it work with ecc88 unit. This tube is made from mullard factory just same with mullard ecc88 but lot cheaper a good nos mullard ecc88 will cost about $200 , I got this pair new for only about $80 . "[/size]
> 
> Can someone confirm or deny this? I don't know too much about tubes, so I want a little bit of knowledge before diving headfirst into this.


 
  Pooters is 100% correct.
  IMO. That doesn't sound like a good Lyr for a new guy to start with.


----------



## Alexnova

Holy smokes does Thriller sound amazing with these tubes. Incredibly tight bass on Billie Jean with plenty of sonic breathing room, love the reverb on MJ's voice. The Girl Is Mine has sublime dynamics and it really wows.
   
  Put on Eva Cassidy's rendition of "Fields of Gold", good lord are the vocals brought up really close but she sounds incredible.
   
  Radiohead still seems like a miss here, bass is lacking, not that the recordings ever had good bass (see depth), but again recessed.
   
  Tricky's "Suffocated Love" requires more volume from the amp to get the bass to come out, and his vocals are a little more prominent. "Pumpkin"...Martina's vocals are arousing, you can almost hear the saliva coming from her lips.
   
  JustBlaze's wonderful production on "Touch The Sky" comes alive with plenty of expansiveness and just the right balance. Hip-hop albums aren't really known for good mixes (see brickwalled), so they aren't really a good true measure. However credit to the HE-500 for being a real genre master.
   
  And I get to "Angel" by Massive Attack. The song that I believe busted my HD595s and HD80s because of that low rumbling bass. Not exagarrated here or artificially produced. On the PS500s, the cans couldn't handle the bass so they had to distort it in such a way that lost all impact.
   
  Sara Jay on "Dissolved Girl" isn't brought forward so much in the mix which is great. Beautiful reproduction of that fuzz bass line. Would like some more treble here, but I will fault the HE-500 for being darker.
   
  Hmm what else. Love the bass, backing vocals and bassoon combo on "The Tears of a Clown".
   
  Great guitars on "Over and Over" by Fleetwood Mac. Also that slide guitar on "How To Disappear Completely" has just the perfect space. You can hear the air from the bass strings on "Until The End of the World" by U2. "Who's Gonna Ride Your Horses" is just a beautiful recording sonically, beautiful guitar work from the Edge, and lovely reverb on Bono's vocals.
   
  "Tie My Hands" is just a wonder to behold. The phones just sing on this tune. "Seagull" and "Leave Them All Behind" by Ride, same thing.
   
  SACD of Sticky Fingers, Wish You Were Here, and Exile on Main St...just astounding. Yes I know it's not DSD, however its about 2800kbps at 88200Hz. Pretty quiet recordings, requires the amp to be turned up full blast. DSOTM at 8000kbps, 96kHz SACD...wow. "Time" sort of disproves any notion that the HE-500 doesn't have any dimensionality.
   
  Keep the burning going...


----------



## sceleratus

alexnova said:


> Holy smokes does .....
> Keep the burning going...



Curious.... What valves are you listening to?


----------



## Zuckfun

sceleratus said:


> Curious.... What valves are you listening to?


 I'll guess fully burned-in OG's. To borrow the phrase, these tubes rock the sockets


----------



## sceleratus

zuckfun said:


> I'll guess fully burned-in OG's. To borrow the phrase, these tubes rock the sockets




I resemble that remark.


----------



## sceleratus

Check that.... Valves.
"these valves rock the sockets". )


----------



## GrindingThud

I've purchased 2 pair from this source....sharing the wealth. 
 Excellent unused PQ tek select: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200938111777?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


sceleratus said:


> Check that.... Valves.
> "these valves rock the sockets". )


----------



## Brycicles

So mine show up today... Started off great, I leave my Lyr on while I go out for a couple hours and I come back and there's a hum now in one of the tubes...


----------



## Alexnova

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Curious.... What valves are you listening to?


 
  Original Gangstas


----------



## sceleratus

I'm going to go have a bowl of Coco Puffs and go to bed.


----------



## Alexnova

Mmm coco puffs


----------



## Sanlitun

overwerk said:


> sick of tube hunting on ebay,
> 
> i just found some cheap telefunkens sold by upscale audio.
> 
> ...




How do the Telefunkens from upscale audio sound? I've ordered those as well.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> How do the Telefunkens from upscale audio sound? I've ordered those as well.
> 
> Are they 1968 date codes U3218104?


 
  you just ordered them? which kind?maxed out spec or the cheapest|? i haven't got them yet man
   
  you know what i am pissed about\? i paid 270 bucks for regular teles from tubemuseumusa and that was on their lowest sale.
   
  i paid 80 bucks for the national matsusita tubes on tubemonger where as upscale sells cryo platinum teles and nationals for the same price.--and I bought them again there because even if I can't return the ones I bought as worse deals, I am not passing off the better deals because I don't consider myself losing when I actually own double the stuff.--not that I will every finish 10k life on them. will they last a life time|? maybe, better than lasting only a year, what's wrong with having a spare pair if I can and want to afford it.
   
  oh, and the tungsram tubes that tubemonger sells for 50 bucks? people can bid them for 30 bucks on ebay
   
  as for folks searching for entry level tubes, ebay has people selling 8 packs of tubes for 20-30 bucks that are each going to be at least 10-20 standalone bucks , just gotta do some finding.
   
   
  tubemonger is the only place to get socket savers for lyr though afaik. go on ebay instead of their site, they have 30 buck pairs with minor cosmetic defect. they claim it's 100% functional. msrp on their site is 50 a pair, which is what I paid for,


----------



## Zuckfun

brycicles said:


> So mine show up today... Started off great, I leave my Lyr on while I go out for a couple hours and I come back and there's a hum now in one of the tubes...


 Hopefully just part of the burn-in process.


----------



## Rudiger

Hi there. I’m new to Head-Fi and this is my first post from France.
   
  And I have a question…
  ...yes...
  ...do not be impatient, it is just below 
   
  I own a Lyr with tubes GE 6BZ7 I listen with hifiman HE-500.
  It’s cool. Compared to my Nad amp C 356BEE the Lyr is softer, less aggressive and the soundstage is better. But the _accuracy of the tones_ I miss quite a lot : for example, precision sound of a violin (or female vocal) seems to me _diluted in echo_. Do you see what I mean ?
  Pleaaaaase, tell me you understand the problem !! 
   
  The bass impact is slightly lower but also it bothers me less. Bref bref, in a word, the Lyr seems to miss a few details in the tones.
   
  Ah, the question.
  Do you know what tubes can improve it with my HE-500 (not too expensive, around 50 $ a pair or less if possible) ?
   
  (clarification: I've asked Jason Stoddard but he does not want to recommend me tubes he does not sell.)
   
  Merci in advance to the super expert who can shed me some light!


----------



## TonyRS

Damn it! I cant find [size=small]Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes '68 anywhere. Mercedesman had some but i was a little too late.[/size]
   
  [size=small]Is there a huge difference between 1968 and 1975 tubes?[/size]


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





tonyrs said:


> Damn it! I cant find [size=small]Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes '68 anywhere. Mercedesman had some but i was a little too late.[/size]
> 
> [size=small]Is there a huge difference between 1968 and 1975 tubes?[/size]


 
  don't people usually vibe that the older the better? anyone knows why?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> don't people usually vibe that the older the better? anyone knows why?


 
   
  Might be true for a certain tube, but i don't think it can be applied to vacuum tubes as a whole.
   
  As time went on i'd imagine processes were refined and technologies matured and improvements were made, maybe in certain cases the later tubes cut corners to save costs and used cheaper materials so don't sound as good, depends on the tube methinks.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Might be true for a certain tube, but i don't think it can be applied to vacuum tubes as a whole.
> 
> As time went on i'd imagine processes were refined and technologies matured and improvements were made, maybe in certain cases the later tubes cut corners to save costs and used cheaper materials so don't sound as good, depends on the tube methinks.


 
  yeah,  I think generally that is how it's going to be I mean, I am not old and I don't need to be old to know and feel and experience old stuff and their obvious hearty quality. And of course a kid knows how made in china flood the modern world. But still, if I can call it a neutral draw, it would come down to preference. I really hate people going negative about either the newschool or the oldschool, or neglecting either's merit.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> yeah,  I think generally that is how it's going to be I mean, I am not old and I don't need to be old to know and feel and experience old stuff and their obvious hearty quality. And of course a kid knows how made in china flood the modern world. But still, if I can call it a neutral draw, it would come down to preference. I really hate people going negative about either the newschool or the oldschool, or neglecting either's merit.


 

 Sometimes, the best things are oldskool.
   
  OK, that's all I got this morning. Carry on.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Sometimes, the best things are oldskool.
> 
> OK, that's all I got this morning. Carry on.


 
  lolll


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> How do the Telefunkens from upscale audio sound? I've ordered those as well.
> 
> Are they 1968 date codes U3218104?


 
  you know we are gonna share our exp with those when they arrive mkay\/ when is yours due arriving?


----------



## Sanlitun

overwerk said:


> you just ordered them? which kind?maxed out spec or the cheapest|? i haven't got them yet man
> 
> you know what i am pissed about\? i paid 270 bucks for regular teles from tubemuseumusa and that was on their lowest sale.
> 
> i paid 80 bucks for the national matsusita tubes on tubemonger where as upscale sells cryo platinum teles and nationals for the same price.--and I bought them again there because even if I can't return the ones I bought as worse deals, I am not passing off the better deals because I don't consider myself losing when I actually own double the stuff.--not that I will every finish 10k life on them. will they last a life time|? maybe, better than lasting only a year, what's wrong with having a spare pair if I can and want to afford it.




Well I am buying from upscale as the situation on Ebay is a total cluster**** and I have zero confidence in tubes from there.

Right now I am looking at several auctions that all have tubes with the same date codes, or variations of it.

u2108604f

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pair-nos-of-E88CC-Telefunken-same-code-gold-pin-orig-box-matched-and-selected-/251249568827?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a7fa42c3b&_uhb=1 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/TELEFUNKEN-E88CC-ECC88-CCa-6DJ8-6922-ULM-GERMANY-1968-GOLD-PINS-MATCHED-/360598614430?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53f55a319e&_uhb=1 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pair-of-Telefunken-E88CC-audio-double-triode-tube-NOS-NIB-FREE-SHIPPING-/300879839025?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item460dd5ff31&_uhb=1


So all of these tubes were made on June 12 1968 and end up on Ebay at the same time? I have serious doubts about this. This date code was not common in the past and the condition is too good.
These pics are more in line with what I have seen for NOS boxes and printing: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Six-Telefunken-EAA91-Tubes-with-Diamond-sign-Made-in-Germany-/181167768401?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a2e70c351&_uhb=1

I have a pair of tubes with another one of these curious date codes that I bought from a well known vendor and as far as I can tell they are genuine Teles on the inside. But I can't tell if they are new or reworked or if they are actually E88CC.

Anyways I hope one of the more knowledgeable members here can set me straight.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Well I am buying from upscale as the situation on Ebay is a total cluster**** and I have zero confidence in tubes from there.
> 
> Right now I am looking at several auctions that all have tubes with the same date codes, or variations of it.
> 
> ...


 
http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/E88CC/re-done-100pcs/index.htm


----------



## Sanlitun

ilikepooters said:


> http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/E88CC/re-done-100pcs/index.htm




I have seen that. I see that he does post a disclaimer there and I do know that there are other knowledgeable persons who dispute that page.

On the other hand there are many cases of replated pins and fake boxes so yeah they could be reworks. Maybe some guy somewhere got their hands on a bunch of military surplus equipment cheap and decided to resell all the pulled Teles as new. You could print the boxes on old card easily from photo process and match the color very closely. The one thing that would be hard to duplicate would be the tube label ink mix and process.

In any event only time will tell.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> I have seen that. I see that he does post a disclaimer there and I do know that there are other knowledgeable persons who dispute that page.
> 
> On the other hand there are many cases of replated pins and fake boxes so yeah they could be reworks. Maybe some guy somewhere got their hands on a bunch of military surplus equipment cheap and decided to resell all the pulled Teles as new. You could print the boxes on old card easily from photo process and match the color very closely. The one thing that would be hard to duplicate would be the tube label ink mix and process.
> 
> In any event only time will tell.


 
  this is all getting into some deep trade water huh? what a bloody shame, people distain the hifi community for money, oh well, it's not like we are living in a world without Beats by Dre


----------



## Overwerk

I have realized that my early opinion about the stock tubes being obviously noisy is not exactly accurate.
   
  I have noticed more than 3 pairs of different tubes being microphonic when no music is playing. i piked variation rococo and when the music is at a dead silence interval, I hear no buzz or hum that was obviously there before I started the music.


----------



## Alexnova

Question for you guys, how well does the HD800 perform on the Lyr? Any particular tubes that make it stand-out?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

alexnova said:


> Question for you guys, how well does the HD800 perform on the Lyr? Any particular tubes that make it stand-out?




HD800's perform very well with the Lyr.

Tubes that have given me the best results with these phones, in order:

1. Amperex 6922 Pinched Waists
2. Siemens & Halske CCa
3. Amperex USN-CEP
4. Siemens & Halske E88CC Grey Shields
5. RTC (La Radiotechnique) - both Heerlen and Suresnes, France versions


----------



## Rudiger

And for the HE-500, do you know which not too expensive tubes correspond ?


----------



## Sanlitun

rudiger said:


> And for the HE-500, do you know which not too expensive tubes correspond ?




I feel you can't go wrong with the Matsu****a - National 6922 from Tubemonger.

These are quite possibly my favorite tubes and they have a remarkable clarity that most tubes are missing. It's a contest between these and a set of Telefunken I have for number one on my list.


----------



## Rudiger

Thank you very much for the answer. Otherwise I've already ordered a pair of ECC85 Siemens, do you think this is worse?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> I feel you can't go wrong with the Matsu****a - National 6922 from Tubemonger.
> 
> These are quite possibly my favorite tubes and they have a remarkable clarity that most tubes are missing. It's a contest between these and a set of Telefunken I have for number one on my list.


 
  you really can't go wrong with them, except for the price. It's not that I want to make tubemonger sales suffer, nor that I care to benefit others by telling them that there is a cheaper place to get them.--i already did in a previous post, and not a second goes by I don't feel like stupid Ned Stark


----------



## Overwerk

you know i am really just joining in this thread, as this is such an old and [size=small]humongous [/size]thread I basically ignored it in the past.
   
  DO people really actually come report their great deals find and great tube find? If that is the case then this thread should be very much the holy grail thread for all LYR owners.


----------



## billerb1

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Sanlitun*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have a spare pair of the above-mentioned, very musical National 6922's that aren't getting any time on my Lyr.  They are just taking up space and need a home.  PM me and I'll get them to you anywhere in the CONUS for just shipping and paypal fee.
   
  ****THE NATIONALS HAVE BEEN SPOKEN FOR.  THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST****


----------



## HK_sends

overwerk said:


> you know i am really just joining in this thread, as this is such an old and [size=small]humongous [/size]thread I basically ignored it in the past.
> 
> DO people really actually come report their great deals find and great tube find? If that is the case then this thread should be very much the holy grail thread for all LYR owners.



 
 Yes.


----------



## Zuckfun

It was so tempting to take nelamvr6 up on his offer for the USN-CEP's, but if something happened to his tubes, I'd feel terrible. So, mercedesman had a pair up for sale, and I took advantage of the opportunity. Not sure if these will beat the Orange Globes, which are easily my current favorites.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> Thank you very much for the answer. Otherwise I've already ordered a pair of ECC85 Siemens, do you think this is worse?


 
  A note: Just because a valve has "ECC" in it's type classification, does not mean it is compatible.  Further, just because the pin assignments for heater, cathode, anode, grid and shield are the same doesn't make them compatible.
   
  As you can see:
  First image is an ECC88 pin out.
  It's the same as the ECC85 that follows.
  There are no issues with heater voltage / current.
   
*ECC88*
   

   
*ECC85*
   

   
The difference comes in the plate and grid specs.
They are wildly different.  As is *µ*
   
   

   

   
I don't recall reading a post where anyone else was using these in a Lyr.
Personally, I would not.


----------



## sceleratus

The Lyr will not deliver 230V to the anode.
EDIT:  Corrected graphs


----------



## Rudiger

Damn you're right!...I am disgusted, I do not even understand how I could be wrong as I thought I had checked. Hum if anyone here wants to buy me these now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  1000 thank you in any case, it seems you avoid very  unpleasant surprises me.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> Damn you're right!...I am disgusted, I do not even understand how I could be wrong as I thought I had checked. Hum if anyone here wants to buy me these now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No worries.  It's caught my eye and I though "is this ok?"
  The Lyr has some "wiggle room" to operate "out of spec" valves without a problem.  Ex. PCC88 and... Correct me guys ECC89's
  but I think the 85's are too far out and risk/reward curve is too steep to try.
   
  There's so much good good conforming glass (and others validated by members) that I don't think it's necessary.


----------



## Rudiger

I totally agree, plus I already have a barbecue facilities in my backyard.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> I totally agree, plus I already have a barbecue facilities in my backyard.


 
  I don't think the Lyr would fry.  Rather, I think there wouldn't be enough juice to make the 85's work well.
  Since the ECC88 valve has a max limit of 130V , I surmise there Lyr won't put out much more than that.
  The ECC85's have a typical of 230V.  They would be greatly under powered.
   
  Not trying to beat a dead horse here, I just like verbalizing this stuff not only for myself, but also to be corrected if I am wrong.


----------



## Rudiger

No horse mistreated here, the accuracy is very interesting.
  So if I summarize at best the tube does not sound good, at worst it will damage the Lyr.


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I don't think the Lyr would fry.  Rather, I think there wouldn't be enough juice to make the 85's work well.
> Since the ECC88 valve has a max limit of 130V , I surmise there Lyr won't put out much more than that.
> The ECC85's have a typical of 230V.  They would be greatly under powered.
> 
> Not trying to beat a dead horse here, I just like verbalizing this stuff not only for myself, but also to be corrected if I am wrong.


 
   
  ECC85's not only work in the Lyr, they sound great.   Other people have used them in this thread, too.  I've probably got a dozen different ECC85s around here and they range from pretty good to downright excellent.
   
     -Mike


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> No horse mistreated here, the accuracy is very interesting.
> So if I summarize at best the tube does not sound good, at worst it will damage the Lyr.


 
  I don't see any damage to the Lyr since the pin assignments are the same.  anode, cathode, grid, etc.
   
  Stuff that interests me.
  I love writing this stuff because it reinforces it in my head.
   
  A tube is really a "valve" for electrons.  Water...Turn a knob left more water flows. Turn right less flows.
   
  It is a valve for electrons works as such.  Turn the "grid" to "less negative" voltage more electrons flow.  Increase the grid negative voltage fewer electrons flow.
  There's a little screen component called the grid.
   
  There are two sets of 3 components in every valve.  The ECC88 and the like are "Dual Triode" valves.  The ECC85 is also a dual triode valve.
  Each triode is made up of a cathode an anode, a "heater" and a grid" for control.
  The heater heats the cathode to a constant temperature.  When the cathode is hot it emits electrons.
  The electrons flow through the vacuum to the anode (plate).  That's your "juice"
  The grid screen controls the flow of the electrons from the cathode to the "plate"
  The more negative voltage the grid screen has the fewer electrons are allowed to pass to the plate.
  Hence the the mechanism is a "valve" for electrons and it was called that for many years.
   
  Soooo  if you look at the negative grid voltage on the x axis of the ECC85 and keep in mind the Lyr transformer probably won't put out more than 130V to the plate (guess)
  The ECC85 at typical grid voltage of -2V is only going to "see" 130V on the Plate from the Lyr transformer to attract electrons.  The plate current looks like 2 mA period.
  It wants 230V.  If it had it it would produce about 10 mA when the grid is -2V
   
  Extrapolating, plugging in an ECC85 into a Lyr would be a dud.  Like 6V to a bulb that wants 12V  It won't get very bright.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> ECC85's not only work in the Lyr, they sound great.   Other people have used them in this thread, too.  I've probably got a dozen different ECC85s around here and they range from pretty good to downright excellent.
> 
> -Mike


 
   
Amplifier circuits are "designed" around tube specifications.  The tube is part of the amplifier circuit like a resistor or a capacitor.  It is not an accessory.  The circuits operating points are calculated using all the components.  Change one value, another is effected.  It's like swapping a 2K2 ohm 1W resistor with a 2K2 ohm 1/4W resistor.  There are big consequences.   Perhaps a 10µf cap to a 15µf isn't a big deal, but there are still consequences to the circuit.  Perhaps running an ECC85 works fine, but the circuit is operating differently and probably out of spec.
   
I am glad you like them.


----------



## Overwerk

does anyone know if tubes are supposed to have little things moving inside them when you shake them besides your ears? I have heard it in one of my pair of telefunkens, and one of my pair of a frame oranges. I probably will hear them if I check more tubes. But I only checked because I accidently dropped the oranges on my table from hand height and then on to my lap. 
   
   
  I can't see anything moving,


----------



## HPiper

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> does anyone know if tubes are supposed to have little things moving inside them when you shake them besides your ears? I have heard it in one of my pair of telefunkens, and one of my pair of a frame oranges. I probably will hear them if I check more tubes. But I only checked because I accidently dropped the oranges on my table from hand height and then on to my lap.
> 
> 
> I can't see anything moving,


 

 No, there shouldn't be anything moving inside your tubes ever. Either test them or toss em. It is very easy to damage a tube, easier than you might think.


----------



## mhamel

Yes, I am fully aware of that. I believe Jason mentioned as well that they are fine in the Lyr, and I'm not the only one that has liked them.

 -Mike 




sceleratus said:


> Amplifier circuits are "designed" around tube specifications.  The tube is part of the amplifier circuit like a resistor or a capacitor.  It is not an accessory.  The circuits operating points are calculated using all the components.  Change one value, another is effected.  It's like swapping a 2K2 ohm 1W resistor with a 2K2 ohm 1/4W resistor.  There are big consequences.   Perhaps a 10µf cap to a 15µf isn't a big deal, but there are still consequences to the circuit.  Perhaps running an ECC85 works fine, but the circuit is operating differently and probably out of spec.
> 
> 
> I am glad you like them.


----------



## sceleratus

Often it's hard to convey a feeling in a post.  I think that was one.
  I am genuinely glad that the ECC85's work and sound great.
   
  I was just going through an exercise that I should have kept to myself.  Note the disclaimer I attache to every post.


----------



## TonyRS

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hero of the day!


----------



## sceleratus

Hey.
   
  If Jason says they work.  "Light em' up !"


----------



## billerb1

Sceleratus...the avatar is priceless.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Hey.
> 
> If Jason says they work.  "Light em' up !"


 
   
   
  Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> Sceleratus...the avatar is priceless.


 
  You sure this is a good idea?


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





tonyrs said:


> Hero of the day!


 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/6630#post_9375452
   
   
    -Mike


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/6630#post_9375452
> 
> 
> -Mike


 
  Curious.
   
  When you are running your 85's, do you have to turn up the volume pot more?
   
  To me, you would because the plate voltage for the 85's is much higher than the 88's.  This would be assuming the Lyr can't put 230V to the plate.
   
  EDIT:
  Of course the volume POT is between the OPT (ss) and the source.


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Curious.
> 
> When you are running your 85's, do you have to turn up the volume pot more?
> 
> To me, you would because the plate voltage for the 85's is much higher than the 88's.  This would be assuming the Lyr can't put 230V to the plate.


 
   
  Most ECC85s that I've tried seem to run a bit louder, actually.   At spec, they've got a much higher Mu than the 6DJ8.
   
  I just ran a quick test to substantiate what I think I've been hearing... not the most scientific test ever, but it'll do at 12:30am in a pinch.     Lyr, volume at 9-o-clock, out to powered studio monitors, pink noise - Brimar ECC88s avg 88db volume.    Tungsram ECC85, 92db.
   
    -Mike


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Most ECC85s that I've tried seem to run a bit louder, actually.   At spec, they've got a much higher Mu than the 6DJ8.
> 
> I just ran a quick test to substantiate what I think I've been hearing... not the most scientific test ever, but it'll do at 12:30am in a pinch.     Lyr, volume at 9-o-clock, out to powered studio monitors, pink noise - Brimar ECC88s avg 88db volume.    Tungsram ECC85, 92db.
> 
> -Mike


 
  thanks !
  Yup  the mu is like  55


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> thanks !
> Yup  the mu is like  55


 
   
  Sure, no problem.
   
  These are the Tungsrams, btw:  http://www.highendtubes.com/preamp-tubes-c-2/matched-pair-nosnib-tungsramtesla-6aq8ecc856n1-tubes-p-24.html
   
  They have a somewhat narrow soundstage, think intimate jazz club vs concert hall - and are generally very good-sounding for not a lot of money.
   
      -Mike


----------



## Overwerk

I am listening to this
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/321150617155?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  and it's got crazy static like little sparkle of fire on a matchstick burning in the wind but it sounds like radio static too, so  just not piercing, it mostlly sounds like wind leaking from car window. I can even hear it when music plays. 
  it becomes evident after 9-10 o clock on the lyr.
   
  Is this normal? Am I to wait 50 hours on these before calling alert ? What could have caused it?
   
  Also they are one of the few tubes that starts out very sensitive--kind of reminds me of the ver 1 stock tubes on lyr,
   
  maybe this is one kind of the so called microphonics? 
   
  I have these coming in and I will see if they fix the issue.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/350817155962?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/140975796306?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> I am listening to this
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321150617155?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> ...


 
   
  That could be the tubes, or could just be that the pins need cleaning.
   
  In a pinch, you can use a pencil eraser, give each pin 2-3 passes like follows.    Be careful to use the edge of the eraser so that it fits between the pins.   See if that clears it up for you.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> That could be the tubes, or could just be that the pins need cleaning.
> 
> In a pinch, you can use a pencil eraser, give each pin 2-3 passes like follows.    Be careful to use the edge of the eraser so that it fits between the pins.   See if that clears it up for you.


 
  you mean stick it inside? would a regular utility knife edge suffice?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> you mean stick it inside? would a regular utility knife edge suffice?


 
  Talk to mercedesman first.
  He'll make it right.
   
  EDIT.
   
  I have a set of them too.  Mine are microphonic but it doesn't effect the sound while I am listening.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Talk to mercedesman first.
> He'll make it right.
> 
> EDIT.
> ...


 
  yeah it's so low pitched and gentle, even if I hear it during music it's less annoying than vinyl noise, and quiter.
   
  the ver,1 stock tubes on the other hand, NIGHTMARE.


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Question for you guys, how well does the HD800 perform on the Lyr? Any particular tubes that make it stand-out?


 
  i asked the same question a couple of weeks ago just before I bought my Lyr and I think 6 moons sums it up perfectly
   
_" unless you've heard the HD800 over the Lyr you've not yet met the real McCoy. Everything the Sennheiser does naturally well remains untouched—soundstage illumination and stage size, speed, high resolution—but where it is traditionally weaker—bass power, body, fleshiness, saturation—gets royally kicked in the arse and up a few very obvious notches. At $449 the Lyr is simply a must audition for any HD800 lover or considerateur. "_
   
   
just received 4 sets of the better tubes recommended on this thread on free appro today - amperex pq's, bugle boys, telefunkens, mullards and have the matsu****a's and voskhods ordered and coming next week.
   
Listening to the mullards right now and its what 6 moons say x 2 - just beautiful - may the journey begin !!
   
BTW - the matsu****as are going cheap here - half the price of tubemonger
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsu****a-6922-E88cc-Tube-Valve-NOS-/300924834589?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item461084931d


----------



## mhamel

Yes, stick the pins into the eraser. When I say the edge, I don't mean the metal band, I mean close to the edge of the rubber. Doesn't seem like it would do much, but it does a good job of cleaning them. It's an old trick my grandfather taught me many years ago. 

Over time, the pins will oxidize, can get dirty, and won't make the best contact with the socket. It's not a bad idea to get into the habit of checking/cleaning the pins on any tubes you buy that aren't brand new production. 

 -Mike





overwerk said:


> you mean stick it inside? would a regular utility knife edge suffice?


----------



## OmsJtmz32

2 weeks and my tubes are not here yet!! Argh..


----------



## sceleratus

A request / favor,
   
  When the ECC85 thing comes up again, and I start posting all that Cr@p.  Just say "hey, Dufus you already went over this"
  I have real memory issues.
   
  Thanks


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> A request / favor,
> 
> When the ECC85 thing comes up again, and I start posting all that Cr@p.  Just say "hey, Dufus you already went over this"
> I have real memory issues.
> ...


 
  Hey, Dufus you already went over this...
   
  Whoah, Deja Vu! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - I'm a baaad man!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Hey, Dufus you already went over this...
> 
> Whoah, Deja Vu!
> 
> ...


 
  I'm feel'n the love


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I'm feel'n the love


 
  Ain't we all? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Ain't we all?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I think I needed more arrows and circles.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> i asked the same question a couple of weeks ago just before I bought my Lyr and I think 6 moons sums it up perfectly
> 
> _" unless you've heard the HD800 over the Lyr you've not yet met the real McCoy. Everything the Sennheiser does naturally well remains untouched—soundstage illumination and stage size, speed, high resolution—but where it is traditionally weaker—bass power, body, fleshiness, saturation—gets royally kicked in the arse and up a few very obvious notches. At $449 the Lyr is simply a must audition for any HD800 lover or considerateur. "_
> 
> ...


 

 +1 HD800 and the Lyr!  Which Voskhods did you get?
   
  Listening to those 1975 gray shields has been a revelation!  Put an extra pr in my main amp - after a day of burnin.  I was at my desk working on a project ,some classical playing in the background...focused on something...then I just was captured by the music!  I mean - I just stopped, dropped my pen, turned my chair to listen.  It was Shostakovich Symphony No 1 - the sound was so incredible, sweet, detailed - and the dynamics and bass extension.  My jaw just dropped.
   
  I have heard this recording a hundred times (part of a classical playlist I use when working) - it never sounded like this before - and I have tried dozens of NOS 6922s! Even when I had the S&H CCa gray shields.
   
  LP after LP (I digitalize my LPs at hi res 32/176k)- the sound was just so incredible - Telemann, Mozart, Bach - Haydn!  I just couldn't focus on work - just pure bliss.
   
  I may have to put my Philips SQs back in so I can WORK!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> It was so tempting to take nelamvr6 up on his offer for the USN-CEP's, but if something happened to his tubes, I'd feel terrible. So, mercedesman had a pair up for sale, and I took advantage of the opportunity. Not sure if these will beat the Orange Globes, which are easily my current favorites.


 
  Were the ones Mercedesman had NOS?  He usually has tubes in pretty good shape, even if they're not NOS...
   
  I predict you're gonna like them!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Talk to mercedesman first.
> He'll make it right.
> 
> EDIT.
> ...


 
  I agree, tell mercedesman you have an issue and may need a remedy, but then, once you've notified him, let them burn in (tell him you're going to burn them in first).  That way you won't exceed the return period.
   
  I had a pair of those that were noisy too.  I have two pairs of the non-small man BBs that are dead quite.
   
  When we're dealing with such antique devices, there are bound to be the occasional problems here and there...


----------



## Timodeus

mhamel said:


> ECC85's not only work in the Lyr, they sound great.   Other people have used them in this thread, too.  I've probably got a dozen different ECC85s around here and they range from pretty good to downright excellent.
> 
> -Mike




Very true


----------



## sceleratus

This may be common knowledge for some but I just learned it and I thought I'd share.  A few posts back I wrote a little description of a valves components.  Here is the next step.
  
 Although I understood the interaction of the cathode, plate, and grid in a valve, I didn't understand how it amplified the very weak radio waves or low voltages of a source.  Today it clicked.
  
 When you read the diagram remember that your "volume control" (potentiometer) varies the amplitude of the source signal Before it get to the amplifier circuit.


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> *+1 HD800 and the Lyr!  Which Voskhods did you get?*
> 
> Listening to those 1975 gray shields has been a revelation!  Put an extra pr in my main amp - after a day of burnin.  I was at my desk working on a project ,some classical playing in the background...focused on something...then I just was captured by the music!  I mean - I just stopped, dropped my pen, turned my chair to listen.  It was Shostakovich Symphony No 1 - the sound was so incredible, sweet, detailed - and the dynamics and bass extension.  My jaw just dropped.
> 
> ...


 
  i got the silver shields as recommended on this thread for around $8 US each, he has some other voskhods too so will ask if he has those gray shields since your loving those. 
   
  I had similar memorable experiences last night with the mullards - much more detail and bass than the stock tubes and so musical - my best listening experience so far in my 3-4 years in this hobby. And to think i have spent several thousands on SS amps and the $450 Lyr leaves them for dead. The way it gets the drivers moving on the HD800's is incredible, can feel the bass thuds in the ear cups as if its someone knocking on them with a big stick. 
   
  Best part is that I have 3 more types of high end tubes on my desk to try but cant bring myself to remove the mullards just yet !!


----------



## Alexnova

Man I wish I could try out the HD800 with Lyr without spending the 1500 on em. Maybe I can get Sennheiser to give me a loaner pair for 2 weeks...


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> i got the silver shields as recommended on this thread for around $8 US each, he has some other voskhods too so will ask if he has those gray shields since your loving those.
> 
> I had similar memorable experiences last night with the mullards - much more detail and bass than the stock tubes and so musical - my best listening experience so far in my 3-4 years in this hobby. And to think i have spent several thousands on SS amps and the $450 Lyr leaves them for dead. The way it gets the drivers moving on the HD800's is incredible, can feel the bass thuds in the ear cups as if its someone knocking on them with a big stick.
> 
> Best part is that I have 3 more types of high end tubes on my desk to try but cant bring myself to remove the mullards just yet !!


 
   
  Would that have been my listing by any chance? I bought a load of used ones bulk and matched them up, were some very nice tubes in there.
   
  From what i've learned so far, all the silver shields seem to sound the same to me, but i haven't heard the elusive 1975 silver shields yet.
   
  I have a pair of 1978 with the long silver shield, and they seem to sound the same as silver shields from the early 80's but they aren't very well matched, but i keep them for myself because it's not a big issue for me to shift the balance left or right one notch in my soundcards control panel.
   
  I've had a load of the long grey shields from the 70's, including a pair from 1975, can't say i was blown away to be honest, very good tube but i think the bass was not as tight as the silver shields, don't get me wrong they are a fantastic tube, just not the presentation that pairs well with all my gear.
   
  Short grey shields from the 90's - 2000's i thought were completely un-remarkable, i thought there was a bit of harshness in the treble, and maybe a bit too much bass, bit of a V shape going on, some people might like it but it wasn't for me.
   
  Take all this with a pinch of salt because the tubes were well used and only a small batch, might be some years in between that sound great and go against the grain of what i'm saying.
   
  I've bought another load, 28 more tubes which i should have end of next week maybe, will have to wait and see what goodies i have in there, so i might be revising my impressions.


----------



## Overwerk

is siemens best tube for classical music on Lyr? Cus, I still haven't bought a pair of them.


----------



## Zuckfun

overwerk said:


> is siemens best tube for classical music on Lyr? Cus, I still haven't bought a pair of them.


 R Scott Ireland listens to classical music exclusively, and 2 of his top 3 favorite tubes are Amperex.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> i got the silver shields as recommended on this thread for around $8 US each, he has some other voskhods too so will ask if he has those gray shields since your loving those.
> 
> I had similar memorable experiences last night with the mullards - much more detail and bass than the stock tubes and so musical - my best listening experience so far in my 3-4 years in this hobby. And to think i have spent several thousands on SS amps and the $450 Lyr leaves them for dead. The way it gets the drivers moving on the HD800's is incredible, can feel the bass thuds in the ear cups as if its someone knocking on them with a big stick.
> 
> Best part is that I have 3 more types of high end tubes on my desk to try but cant bring myself to remove the mullards just yet !!


 

 +1  Yes when the ear cups are thudding, don't come a' knocking! 
   
  What years did you get?
   
  The later date gray shield Rockets (1980s and 1979) where not as good as their silver shield counterparts.  But these 1975s gray and silver are both extraordinary.  I'll post a larger review with pictures soon.  These suckers haven't even finished burning in yet!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Would that have been my listing by any chance? I bought a load of used ones bulk and matched them up, were some very nice tubes in there.
> 
> From what i've learned so far, all the silver shields seem to sound the same to me, but i haven't heard the elusive 1975 silver shields yet.
> 
> ...


 

 If you want to sell your '75s grays - let me know.  I'm a buyer.  I'll even trade some '79 silvers.  I'm truly astounded by these.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





omsjtmz32 said:


> 2 weeks and my tubes are not here yet!! Argh..


 

 Are they coming from the Ukraine or Russia?  Mine are taking 3-4 weeks.  I've had so many packages coming from there - I must be on an NSA watch list!


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> If you want to sell your '75s grays - let me know.  I'm a buyer.  I'll even trade some '79 silvers.  I'm truly astounded by these.


 
   
  I let them go a few days ago, if i get any more in the new batch i'll let you know.


----------



## Overwerk

Jebus Freaking Awesomesauce!!
   
  The telefunkens +duomax dampers....OMG..
   
  pristine as pristine can be. Everything is euphorically heavenly beautiful, like the first time you saw a girl that seem to come out of your dream


----------



## Zuckfun

nelamvr6 said:


> Were the ones Mercedesman had NOS?  He usually has tubes in pretty good shape, even if they're not NOS...
> 
> I predict you're gonna like them!


 They are NOS, direct from Mercedesman. Looking forward to the epic showdown:
OG's vs. USN-CEP's: Battle Of The Champions


----------



## Sanlitun

overwerk said:


> Jebus Freaking Awesomesauce!!
> 
> The telefunkens +duomax dampers....OMG..
> 
> pristine as pristine can be. Everything is euphorically heavenly beautiful, like the first time you saw a girl that seem to come out of your dream




Are these the upscale Telefunkens? Mine should be here in a few days.


----------



## Overwerk

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CV2492-MULLARD-MILITARY-NOS-BOXED-/260577827114?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3caba6192a
   
  is this price a little bit too much |? I heard tubemonger had them for 90 buck a pair, and this UK seller has sold 70 of these tubes at 50 pound each? What


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I let them go a few days ago, if i get any more in the new batch i'll let you know.


 

 Thanks!


----------



## hedphonz

> Quote:


 


ilikepooters said:


> Would that have been my listing by any chance? I bought a load of used ones bulk and matched them up, were some very nice tubes in there.
> 
> From what i've learned so far, all the silver shields seem to sound the same to me, but i haven't heard the elusive 1975 silver shields yet.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I saw your ebay sale and I pm'd you here enquiring about the silver shields but you never replied ? I assumed you had sold them already or got too many messages !
   
  the pair i bought are early 80's, not sure of exact year, will find out when i get them in a couple of days. At only $8 a pop I wasn't too fussed and they were within my country
   
   
   
  Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> +1  Yes when the ear cups are thudding, don't come a' knocking!
> 
> What years did you get?
> 
> The later date gray shield Rockets (1980s and 1979) where not as good as their silver shield counterparts.  But these 1975s gray and silver are both extraordinary.  I'll post a larger review with pictures soon.  These suckers haven't even finished burning in yet!


 
  I dont know what year the mullards are - I'm still a noob with tubes and had no idea what year/s to borrow.
   
  I was fortunate enough to make contact with a semi-retired, semi-amateur tube dealer who lives just 10mins away. Went to his house and he has boxes of vintage tubes for the lyr from the 6DJ8, ECC88, 7308, 6922 AND E88CC families . It was kid in the candy store time as I spotted all the famous makes and types of tubes written about on here. Being an old school character he loaned me 4 x pairs without any deposit or credit card - pretty unbelievable nowadays. Reckons only once in 30 years has he been let down and that was to a local 18 yr old who wanted a little dot tube. Whatever i keep I will get more details on and test results. He seemed to have a lot of mullards, what years/variants are the best ? 
   
  Right now I have just popped in the Amperex PQ's, made in USA with orange lettering and gold pins.Too hard to read the date codes without a magnifying glass. First immediate impression is that they sound very light and clear compared to the mullards. Only been in for an hour so need another day at least to pick up on their finer characteristics. Seem like they may be good for classical or jazz !
   
  edit: an hour later they sound completely different - much more full bodied - sounding very nice indeed - wish i had 2 x lyr's now so I could do quick comparisons


----------



## OldSkool

Hedphonz, my favorite Mullards are the CV2493 which are the 10,000 hour military version of the 6922. I have three sets in my collection (from the 60s, 70s, and 80s) and I prefer them "the older the better" as the saying goes.
   
  IMO, they are different from the Amperex valves in that the Mullards have even more warmth in the mids which gives them a nice smooth "tubey" sound.
   
  Can you describe the Mullards that the dealer loaned you? Halo getter, any markings, etc?
   
   
  Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> I saw your ebay sale and I pm'd you here enquiring about the silver shields but you never replied ? I assumed you had sold them already or got too many messages !
> 
> the pair i bought are early 80's, not sure of exact year, will find out when i get them in a couple of days. At only $8 a pop I wasn't too fussed and they were within my country
> 
> ...


 

 I was kind of refering to the Voskhods.  Yes European tube dates were an enigma - there are some posts here and Brent Jesse's website has some good info.
   
  Nice thing about the Russian's glass - no mysterious decoding needed - date is stamped right on the front.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Hedphonz, my favorite Mullards are the CV2493 which are the 10,000 hour military version of the 6922. I have three sets in my collection (from the 60s, 70s, and 80s) and I prefer them "the older the better" as the saying goes.
> 
> IMO, they are different from the Amperex valves in that the Mullards have even more warmth in the mids which gives them a nice smooth "tubey" sound.
> 
> ...


 
  how much did you pay for them?


----------



## lugnut

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> +1  Yes when the ear cups are thudding, don't come a' knocking!
> 
> What years did you get?
> 
> The later date gray shield Rockets (1980s and 1979) where not as good as their silver shield counterparts.  But these 1975s gray and silver are both extraordinary.  I'll post a larger review with pictures soon.  These suckers haven't even finished burning in yet!


 
  Would you mind to post a link to they grey & silver tubes ?  Thanks


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> how much did you pay for them?


 

 I don't even remember...it's been quite a while ago.
   
  Thinking I paid maybe $150-175 for the pair of '67 halos from Tubemonger.
   
  Sometimes it's best that I don't think about what I've spent on tubes for this little shiny box of Schiit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Cheers!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

oldskool said:


> Sometimes it's best that I don't think about what I've spent on tubes for this little shiny box of Schiit.




You have that one right, brother! I refuse to think about it; I merely to attempt to curtail future purchases 

On another note - I've been listening today to the Lorenz PCC88 3-Mica Stuttgarts, with HD800, and I am liking them a whole lot better than the last time I heard them. They seem to have opened up a good deal; burn-in perhaps. Still not at the top of my favorites list, but now up there with the RTC's, which is a substantial improvement. I think I'll leave them in the Lyr for awhile to see if they continue to improve with more burn-in (they don't have very many hours on them at this point).


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> I saw your ebay sale and I pm'd you here enquiring about the silver shields but you never replied ? I assumed you had sold them already or got too many messages !
> 
> the pair i bought are early 80's, not sure of exact year, will find out when i get them in a couple of days. At only $8 a pop I wasn't too fussed and they were within my country
> 
> ...


 
  Ah yes sorry, quite often i read PM's and think i'll get round to them later, on this occasion i forgot all about it, been a hectic week at work with the boss being off.
   
  I'll keep you in mind when my next batch turns up.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





lugnut said:


> Would you mind to post a link to they grey & silver tubes ?  Thanks


 

 Here's a picture of the 1979 vintage, silver and grey :


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Hedphonz, my favorite Mullards are the CV2493 which are the 10,000 hour military version of the 6922. I have three sets in my collection (from the 60s, 70s, and 80s) and I prefer them "the older the better" as the saying goes.
> 
> IMO, they are different from the Amperex valves in that the Mullards have even more warmth in the mids which gives them a nice smooth "tubey" sound.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  just had a quick search on ebay and they look the same as these
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC88-MULLARD-BLACKBURN-6DJ8-YELLOW-PRINT-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-MA13-/370809434094?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item5655f6efee
   

   
  after listening to the telefunkens and amperex's i think im a basshead - the mullards were the most enjoyable to me so I may concentrate my efforts on obtaining a few variants of these. I love the bass and warmth but also love detail and smooth treble, dont like the idea of sacrificing resolution at all - 
   
  Any recommendations for Mullard's that can offer the best of both worlds ?


----------



## Alexnova

Hedphonz so those tubes are great for bass then? I think I have discovered also that I am a bass head.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The CV2493 is a beautiful sounding tube. It is a selected CV2492, for low noise. The CV2492 is a direct military equivalent to 6922 / E88CC. In the UK the commercial equivalent of the CV2493 is an E88CC - 01 which is often overlook but again selected for low noise (hence the - 01 designation). Basically the CV2493 is a step up from the already premium 6922 / E88CCs.


----------



## billerb1

http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_p/2000m.htm
   
  Game over.  Best of EVERYTHING.


----------



## christophhh

So I have about 200 hours into my Bitfrost + Lyr + HE-500s and I'm wondering what the first tubes I should get are!! Anybody wanna make a rec?


----------



## billerb1

What's your budget?
  What sound signature are you looking for?


----------



## Timodeus

christophhh said:


> So I have about 200 hours into my Bitfrost + Lyr + HE-500s and I'm wondering what the first tubes I should get are!! Anybody wanna make a rec?





Voskhod 6N23P sofar the best I found for Lyr HE-500. Will get a Gungnir in a few days, so this 
with a Audio-gd 5.21.


http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Voskhod-6N23P-Matched-pairs-/190862713135?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item2c704de12f#ht_818wt_922


----------



## christophhh

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> What's your budget?
> What sound signature are you looking for?


 
  I don't know! Whatever I need to have my mind blown...haha... Just looking for better..!


----------



## christophhh

Quote: 





timodeus said:


> Voskhod 6N23P sofar the best I found for Lyr HE-500. Will get a Gungnir in a few days, so this
> with a Audio-gd 5.21.
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Voskhod-6N23P-Matched-pairs-/190862713135?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item2c704de12f#ht_818wt_922


 
  Ordered!


----------



## Sanlitun

christophhh said:


> Ordered!




6N23P is one of my fave tubes with the HE-500. They have a clear treble which adds a lot to the HE-500. It took me a long time to find tubes that have the necessary sparkle.

If you get a good pair of these you are pretty much at the end of the road.


----------



## billerb1

I agree on the Voskhods...I have the '80 silver shields and they are a fantastic tube, especially on the bang for the buck scale.  The La Radiotechnique RTC's are a beautiful tube as well, supremely detailed and pure.  And the Mullards I posted the link to above get most of my headtime with my Beyerdynamic T1's.  Meaty, ultra-"tubey" smooth without any sacrifice in detail, gorgeous soundstage.  They are where the budget may become an issue tho, lol.


----------



## ilikepooters

All my Voskhods have sold out, damn that was fast lol
   
  I do still have my Amperex PQ 6DJ8's up for sale on ebay, i know this is a shameless plug and don't know if it's allowed, but i'm getting tired of relisting them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190866003915?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
   
  They do have a similar presentation to the silver shield Voskhod 6N23P's but with a more intimate soundstage, and these are dead silent and zero microphonics.
   
  So if anyone wants them then fill your boots


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





christophhh said:


> So I have about 200 hours into my Bitfrost + Lyr + HE-500s and I'm wondering what the first tubes I should get are!! Anybody wanna make a rec?


 
  Rather than just getting new responses to this question, I would recommend going back 50-100 pages and reading the posts responding to the same question.
  It goes pretty fast.   This way you will get closer to a consensus opinion from a broad group of respondents that have a lot of experience.   The question does not have a simple answer.
   
  Some noobs have read the entire thread and gained a considerable about of knowledge.


----------



## GrindingThud

I have a set of these and love them...impressive tube, especially the Tektronix ones (dead silent). 



ilikepooters said:


> All my Voskhods have sold out, damn that was fast lol
> 
> I do still have my Amperex PQ 6DJ8's up for sale on ebay, i know this is a shameless plug and don't know if it's allowed, but i'm getting tired of relisting them
> 
> ...


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I have a set of these and love them...impressive tube, especially the Tektronix ones (dead silent).


 
   
  I love them too! but as it is with tube rolling, there's always something else to try and only limited funds


----------



## christophhh

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> 6N23P is one of my fave tubes with the HE-500. They have a clear treble which adds a lot to the HE-500. It took me a long time to find tubes that have the necessary sparkle.
> 
> If you get a good pair of these you are pretty much at the end of the road.


 
  Nice! Looking forward to it 

 And these are the correct/best ones to get (this is what I ordered): http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Voskhod-6N23P-Matched-pairs-/190862713135?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item2c704de12f#ht_676wt_1399


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> 6N23P is one of my fave tubes with the HE-500. They have a clear treble which adds a lot to the HE-500. It took me a long time to find tubes that have the necessary sparkle.
> 
> If you get a good pair of these you are pretty much at the end of the road.


 
  where do you find NOS ones?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_p/2000m.htm
> 
> Game over.  Best of EVERYTHING.


 
  +1!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_p/2000m.htm
> 
> Game over.  Best of EVERYTHING.


 
  im tempted but they are hellishly expensive at $325 pair - part of me thinks i will probably spend 5 x more than that on various tubes during my lyr tube rolling journey so why not save money and go straight to the top - the other part of me thinks that the journey is the fun part 
   
  One question for the experienced buyers and sellers - if you buy a pair of a quality tubes like these from a reputed dealer and then sell them a few months later how much of a hit would you take ?


----------



## Miracles

Got my orange globes today!! Been running them for a few hours now. Initially there was a hum in the left driver, but it disappeared when I switched the position of the tubes. I'm running a Uber Bifrost + Lyr with the HD650 setup. Compared to the only tube I had before these (stock GE 6BZ7 that came with the Lyr), I'm finding these to be really good. It seems that the details, bass, soundstage, everything is slightly upgraded. More prominent in some songs. Really pleased with the $80 I payed for the tubes. Hope it gets even better as they burn in.


----------



## Timodeus

ilikepooters said:


> All my Voskhods have sold out, damn that was fast lol
> 
> 
> So this is you. This is I. Thanks for the great tubes. I can start thinking about feeding my children again.


----------



## OmsJtmz32

OG arrived!! Burning in right now. The different between stock GE and OG is huge.


----------



## Rudiger

Just a quick question about burning. It is sufficient to simply leave the Lyr on, no need to play music with, is that correct?


----------



## tuna47

No to burn in tubes must of music going through


----------



## Rudiger

Thank you for the answer, it is important to me ... But should you plug in headphones, I guess not?


----------



## Rudiger

Another thing, I got my first tube to upgrade the original 6BQ7A. Siemens ECC85 to go with my HE-500. Well property I confirm that the effect of changing tubes is not a myth  I compare with my Nad C 356 BEE. I was about to return the Lyr to Schiit, compared to Nad. But now all I blamed disappeared, tones are much more accurate and everything is better than the Nad. Perhaps lack a bit of precision in the treble.
   
  (But now discover that I do not yet burning properly the 6BQ7A  ! Cf above conversation)
   
  I now expect the 6N23P, thank you to those who recommended for this headphone.
   
   One last thing: I do not understand why Schiit offers his amp with tubes not good. Sales would be better left to sell $ 20 more expensive ... but perhaps it is a matter of taste and headphones use.
   
  (My apologies to all lovers of language ... best regards from France !)


----------



## Sanlitun

rudiger said:


> I now expect the 6N23P, thank you to those who recommended for this headphonet.
> One last thing: I do not understand why Schiit offers his amp with tubes not good. Sales would be better left to sell $ 20 more expensive ... but perhaps it is a matter of taste and headphones use.




I don't think the JJ E88CC that came with my Lyr are that bad. I find them to be very clear and accurate and they seem to be designed to produce a warm "tube sound". One of my biggest frustrations with the NOS tubes I get is that they are often veiled and not clear. I would say they are in my top 5 pairs. 

The GE tubes are a total crapshoot though.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> Thank you for the answer, it is important to me ... But should you plug in headphones, I guess not?


 
  Never run an amp without a load


----------



## Rudiger

[edit]


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> I don't think the JJ E88CC that came with my Lyr are that bad. I find them to be very clear and accurate and they seem to be designed to produce a warm "tube sound". One of my biggest frustrations with the NOS tubes I get is that they are often veiled and not clear. I would say they are in my top 5 pairs.
> 
> The GE tubes are a total crapshoot though.


 
 Surprising I understood in this thread that stock GE was better than stock JJ. And this is also what has understood me Jason Stoddard. Hmm I'm a little lost.
  
 Anyway as you say that 6N23P are good, I feel they will please me, I look forward. Already, I appreciate the Siemens fine.


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Never run an amp without a load


 
   Why? (Briefly )
  I learn things here, I had never heard that.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> Why? (Briefly )
> I learn things here, I had never heard that.


 
  [size=medium]Without a load, you can actually destroy an output transformers.  [/size]
  [size=medium]Output transformers are not designed to run "open".[/size]
   
   
  [size=medium]EDIT:  The transformer core heats up because the primary windings saturates the core when there is nothing on the secondary winding side, at least for OPT's[/size]


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





timodeus said:


> Voskhod 6N23P sofar the best I found for Lyr HE-500. Will get a Gungnir in a few days, so this
> with a Audio-gd 5.21.
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Voskhod-6N23P-Matched-pairs-/190862713135?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item2c704de12f#ht_818wt_922


 

 +1  I got some very sweet Holland Bugle Boys 1958 D Getters - the '75 Voskhods Grays and Silvers make mince meat of them in the Lyr, my Integrated amp and my DAC!  Just have to say the veils were lifted bigtime!
   
  And just found some '73s Voskhods - they're on the way from freaking Moldovia!  And the '72s are in transit - they're somewhere between here and Siberia...should be here any month now.
   
  I will do one massive review of the whole vast collection - once the dreaded burn-in is complete.  The East vs West in one massive shootout.  I have the SEL Lorentz PCC88, Philips SQ Holland halo getters 60s, 58' BB D Getters, the Siemens PC88 Gray Shields 60s, Amperex Orange Shield PQs  ---- against a whole horde of Russkies.
   
  I have been listening to my HD800s every night for hours - never did that before.  Going through the old collect of CDs and SACDs on my hard drive  - the incredible detail of these tubes - and what bass extension!! And liquid, flowing mid-range. Yowzer!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





christophhh said:


> Nice! Looking forward to it
> 
> And these are the correct/best ones to get (this is what I ordered): http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Voskhod-6N23P-Matched-pairs-/190862713135?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item2c704de12f#ht_676wt_1399


 

 You have to careful with the Voskhods - the grid means little.  I covered this a few dozen pages ago - it's the shield that runs up to the getter post.  In the 1980 and 90s the best have been the silver shields.  Same goes for the 1979s. 
   
  As for the '75s these are in a league all their own.  My experience is that both the Grays and Silver are great!
   
  BTW - I was the bloke that started this Voskhod business several weeks ago...kinda got the bandwagon rolling.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/7380#post_9462980
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/7665#post_9528634
   
  I think some folks are negative on this tube because they're listening to an inferior variant.  There is a lot of confusion surrounding the proper ones.
   
  For the record 1979 and later  - you want the ones with the shiny shield.  These come with gray and silver grids, and the reverse - so the grid is not the determining factor its the long vertical shield/getter post.  Hard to tell from that seller ebay post.  Also earlier date code the better.  Be sure they' re Rocket labeled (Voskhod) with no dimble in the getter post (one piece with shield).


----------



## Zuckfun

sanlitun said:


> I don't think the JJ E88CC that came with my Lyr are that bad. I find them to be very clear and accurate and they seem to be designed to produce a warm "tube sound". One of my biggest frustrations with the NOS tubes I get is that they are often veiled and not clear. I would say they are in my top 5 pairs.
> 
> The GE tubes are a total crapshoot though.


 Curious what your top 4 tubes are- did you ever receive Upscale's Telefunkens?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> Thank you for the answer, it is important to me ... But should you plug in headphones, I guess not?


 
   
  I don't recommend leaving expensive headphones running unattended. I did it for a while, then realized a power failure + Lyr could have taken them out. I was lucky, since we seem to have momentary power outages in my neck of the woods quite often.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> You have to careful with the Voskhods - the shield means little.  I covered this a few dozen pages ago - it the shield that runs up to the getter post.  In the 1980 and 90s the best have been the silver shields.  Same goes for the 1979s.  As for the '75s these are in a league all their own.
> 
> BTW - I was the bloke that started this Voskhod business several weeks ago...kinda got the bandwagon rolling.
> 
> ...


 
  what are v rockets, ? are those sold out ones by that UK guy(sorry can'[t remember your name off my head) on that ebay link of voskods (he said he is gonna get more) v rockets if you have looked into it?
   
  are voskods only good with he500? what about akgs, senns, audio technicas?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Curious what your top 4 tubes are- did you ever receive Upscale's Telefunkens?


 
  i did, yesterday, I am opening them up today


----------



## NightFlight

@rb2013
   
  Did your Siemens PCC88s come in? Mind did. The 60's halo version seem to be the same as the Siemens Cca, lacking only in sound stage by comparison. Just seems more intimate.


----------



## tuna47

My 2 favorites are Voskhods 1980 silver and go,den globe A frame do not know the year
I have some assorted tubes for sale as a bunch very reasonable if interested let me know I will give details


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I don't recommend leaving expensive headphones running unattended. I did it for a while, then realized a power failure + Lyr could have taken them out. I was lucky, since we seem to have momentary power outages in my neck of the woods quite often.


 
  that's sad to know. 
   
  I think I have gone through one or two due to sudden thunderstorm. you know, blackout . I have no idea what it can do to my gears. Nothing good, cus I remember when I used to abuse my old PC by shutting down power from the outside frequently and the hard drive eventually started to fail. What's the story with headgears, I know they are all fragile and I know you can't plug in the lyr before the 20 second click because I have tried it in the early days when i don't know better or forgot what I read on the manual and got my ears raped.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I don't recommend leaving expensive headphones running unattended. I did it for a while, then realized a power failure + Lyr could have taken them out. I was lucky, since we seem to have momentary power outages in my neck of the woods quite often.


 
   
Lyr has a 20-second slow-start and fast-acting turnoff output muting relay, but we still recommend caution, especially if you’re tube-rolling.
   
  http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/about-lyr/


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> what are v rockets, ? are those sold out ones by that UK guy(sorry can'[t remember your name off my head) on that ebay link of voskods (he said he is gonna get more) v rockets if you have looked into it?
> 
> are voskods only good with he500? what about akgs, senns, audio technicas?


 

 V-Rocket is just a shortened name for the 6n23p Voskhod Rocket - these were made at the factory in Kaluga Russia.  They are an awesome tube at ridiculously low prices.  They're all pretty good, but the best - are the ones I've described in my previous post.  The sound is very detailed - the most detailed I have heard. The best version ('75) beats the $500 S&H CCa Gray Shields and every other 6922 variant I have owned (and I have owned a lot)-  IMHO.
   
  They sound awesome in the Lyr with my HD800s.  I don't have the HE500 or LCD3 so can't comment. 
   
  Now my system has very, very good upstream - including a $25K tubed DAC, $700 ICs, etc... so my experience may be different from others.
   
  But for the money it's hard to go wrong with these tubes.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Lyr has a 20-second slow-start and fast-acting turnoff output muting relay, but we still recommend caution, especially if you’re tube-rolling.
> 
> http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/about-lyr/


 
   
   
  Quote: 





> Jason Stoddard <jason@schiit.com>
> 
> Mar 20
> 
> ...


 
   
  During a brownout/power failure you don't have that sort of luxury. I just took it as warning, don't leave the Schiit on unattended, unless you don't care about parts.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> V-Rocket is just a shortened name for the 6n23p Voskhod Rocket - these were made at the factory in Kaluga Russia.  They are an awesome tube at ridiculously low prices.  They're all pretty good, but the best - are the ones I've described in my previous post.  The sound is very detailed - the most detailed I have heard. The best version ('75) beats the $500 S&H CCa Gray Shields and every other 6922 variant I have owned (and I have owned a lot)-  IMHO.
> 
> They sound awesome in the Lyr with my HD800s.  I don't have the HE500 or LCD3 so can't comment.
> 
> ...


 
  except there is nobody selling it...


----------



## rb2013

From an Audiogon ad on the Voskhod Rockets (not mine) not to long ago:

   
  :

   
   
  "After an almost 3 year hiatus I've finally was able to locate 15 pairs of Voskhod 6H23n tubes that met my criteria of being NOS, manufactured in the Voskhod factory in Kaluga and having good lettering on the tubes. I got lucky this time because all 15 pairs ---{_11 pairs now, 4 pairs have already been sold_}--- were manufactured in the same year and month!
  These Voskhod "rocket logo" 6H23n tubes are the giant killers that have surpassed or equaled every tube they've been compared against in the 6DJ8/6922/7308/Cca genre of tubes. Maybe you’re skeptical of what I'm saying? Well perhaps you'd believe these two feedbacks I received from clients who previously purchased Voskhod "rocket logo" 6H23n from me? First is feedback left on July 30, 2010 by *wizeazz* who said:
  WOW! I was going to drop 400.00 for some Cca a buddy of mine had when I thought, what the heck its only 35.00. (_for these tubes_) These things are the real deal. (_I_) can't tell the difference between the two. Thanx so much Tom!
  The second feedback is from *glitzenberger* who left feedback on May 19, 2010 he said:
  Tom is a great guy to do business with. I bought a pair of his 6H23 tubes and was blown away by the wonderful sound. If I had known how good these tubes sounded when I was looking for 6922 variants, I might not have purchased my Telefunken CCa's.
  For many more responses in this same vein please read my Audiogon feedback. Oh did you know those Cca tubes they both spoke of are highly sought after and usually cost from $400 to $600 a pair when NOS? Yet both of these gents felt these $35 a pair Voskhod "rocket logo" 6H23n or ---{_6N23P if you prefer that designation_}--- tubes equaled or almost equaled the sound of those $400+ a pair Telefunken Cca tubes!
  Let me completely honest with you. I'm sure you'll find some expensive tubes in the 6DJ8/6922.7308/Cca genre of tubes that might have better highs, mids or even better bass ---{_I know I did when I compared a pair of Voskhods against over 100 different types of tubes in the 6DJ8/6922.7308/Cca genre of tubes_}--- that said, what I don't believe you’ll find, is a pair of tubes that will sonically beat the Voskhod "rocket logo" 6H23n tubes when the sound is taken as a whole from deepest bass to the highest highs! Sure some of the more expensive $200+ tubes in this genre of tubes may sound almost as good or possibly even equal the Voskhod "rocket logo" 6H23n tube sonically, but none bested the Voskhods, with the one possible exception. A $450 pair of Telefunken Cca tubes. When I listened to the Cca vs 6N23P with friends from the Central Florida Audio Society, Space Coast Audio Society & SETriodes group the listeners were split as to which tube they preferred sonically. However everyone agreed when you factor in the cost difference of $35 vs $450. Purchasing the Voskhod "rocket logo" 6H23n tubes was a no-brainer!!!."
   
   
  And these were for 1987s I think gray shields - he sold out at $35 an unmatched pr.
   
  Got to try the Tele CCa!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> except there is nobody selling it...


 

 Keep looking - I just pd $15 a pr for the 1973's (bought both prs he had) - how sick is that!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Keep looking - I just pd $15 a pr for the 1973's (bought both prs he had) - how sick is that!


 

 I offered to a few here a while ago some extra prs I had - I have some more coming.  I'll let you know when I get them.  I run them through my Sencor tube tester.  One thing these suckers are a little larger, with thicker glass then the Amperex and Siemens.  Have not had a micro-phonic or noisy tube yet - out of 60 of so.  I would suggest a pr of Tubemonger risers though - it'll make it easier on your fingers to swap them.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> V-Rocket is just a shortened name for the 6n23p Voskhod Rocket - these were made at the factory in Kaluga Russia.  They are an awesome tube at ridiculously low prices.  They're all pretty good, but the best - are the ones I've described in my previous post.  The sound is very detailed - the most detailed I have heard. The best version ('75) beats the $500 S&H CCa Gray Shields and every other 6922 variant I have owned (and I have owned a lot)-  IMHO.
> 
> They sound awesome in the Lyr with my HD800s.  I don't have the HE500 or LCD3 so can't comment.
> 
> ...


 

 Can't put my finger on what it is, but the Voskhod sound sig isn't right for me. Not wrong... but just not right. I'm very sad about that, since their price is so nice. But I'll keep them since there's no loss to do so. Systems (and ears) change over time.  Also, I'd like to try older than the 80's era I came across.
   
  Currently, I'm torn between the CV2493 and the Siemens Cca. There I said it. I didn't want to, but others have piped up lately in here about the 2493 in here lately, so I figure it can't hurt now. I'd decided to stay very quiet about them.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I listened to them for a week and decided to go back to my beloved 'Cca'. Well, the experience was shocking... they quite possibly weren't my favourite anymore.
   
  The /01/Cca/CV2493 60's Mullards or whatever you want to call them are so very different. Dark for certain...  but just fantastic. Accurate and revealing as any tube I've heard. But I'd love to graph out their response on a graph. They have to be notched out somewhere in the treble and if they didn't have that, I'd call it the endgame tube.
   
  4109's? I'd have to sell some crap. I think I might be done for a while. The upscale Telefunkens haven't shown up yet, but I'm pretty eager.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Keep looking - I just pd $15 a pr for the 1973's (bought both prs he had) - how sick is that!


 
  link?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Keep looking - I just pd $15 a pr for the 1973's (bought both prs he had) - how sick is that!


 
   
  I'd buy those for a dollar!


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Can't put my finger on what it is, but the Voskhod sound sig isn't right for me. Not wrong... but just not right. I'm very sad about that, since their price is so nice. But I'll keep them since there's no loss to do so. Systems (and ears) change over time.  Also, I'd like to try older than the 80's era I came across.
> 
> Currently, I'm torn between the CV2493 and the Siemens Cca. There I said it. I didn't want to, but others have piped up lately in here about the 2493 in here lately, so I figure it can't hurt now. I'd decided to stay very quiet about them.
> 
> ...


 
  they sound pretty divine.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> link?


 

 ebay - just put in 6n23p and sift through - i have to warn you it's a bit perilous - these Ukraine dealers don't communicate very well.  Just look at the pictures very closely and verify with them the dates they're sending.
   
  Good Luck!


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> ebay - just put in 6n23p and sift through - i have to warn you it's a bit perilous - these Ukraine dealers don't communicate very well.  Just look at the pictures very closely and verify with them the dates they're sending.
> 
> Good Luck!


 
  i meant the one you bought. And I did sift through most of them , I don't see anyone or any picture with date information


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> @rb2013
> 
> Did your Siemens PCC88s come in? Mind did. The 60's halo version seem to be the same as the Siemens Cca, lacking only in sound stage by comparison. Just seems more intimate.


 
   
  I take that back. They have a bit of PCC88 mud. Not much, great tube for the money @ ~ $10 ea.


----------



## ilikepooters

Well what do we have here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


   
  Now i know what you're thinking... Those look like russkies!
   
  Well they are, i acquired them for only £12 and both test NOS on my tester, i don't think the seller knew quite what he had here.
   
  And yes those are the long silver shields and look remarkably like Voskhod construction, they even sound like Voskhod silver shields 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The gold pins don't look right though, i'm guessing someone tarted up the pins and painted E88CC on them so make them more saleable, just a shame i'll never know what year they're from


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Can't put my finger on what it is, but the Voskhod sound sig isn't right for me. Not wrong... but just not right. I'm very sad about that, since their price is so nice. But I'll keep them since there's no loss to do so. Systems (and ears) change over time.  Also, I'd like to try older than the 80's era I came across.
> 
> Currently, I'm torn between the CV2493 and the Siemens Cca. There I said it. I didn't want to, but others have piped up lately in here about the 2493 in here lately, so I figure it can't hurt now. I'd decided to stay very quiet about them.
> 
> ...


 

 I have to find a matched NOS pair those 1950s Tele CCa - that is game over - bank account empty! 
   
  See if you can find the 75' V-Rockets - I previously said that I wasn't expecting  the VRs to beat the Siemens CCa Gray Shields - that has changed.  The detail and air on these is extraordinary.  Both my DACs are tubed - so the detail and air are wonderful with no sibilants or harshness at all.  I'm also using the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable on the HD800s.
   
  But I've also rolled these in my tube hybrid integrated amps and one of my DACs.  The detail and air increased there as well .  And it's just not that...but this liquid flow to the music..captivating.  Now I'm trying to determine if the gray or silver shield '75s are best.  So far I'm liking the grays better - go figure.  I'm hoping and praying the '73s and/or '72s are even better!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I'd buy those for a dollar!


 

 And they came with another pair of Reflectors to boot!  
   

  http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-Double-Triode-Tubes-Lot-of-4-Slightly-Used-TESTED-/221242526789?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3383150c45


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> i meant the one you bought. And I did sift through most of them , I don't see anyone or any picture with date information


 
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-Double-Triode-Tubes-Lot-of-4-Slightly-Used-TESTED-/221242526789?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3383150c45
   
  Matching '73 date codes as well!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I take that back. They have a bit of PCC88 mud. Not much, great tube for the money @ ~ $10 ea.


 

 Not yet!  Coming from Munich


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Well what do we have here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Freaking hilarious!!!   Yeah those invertered saucer getters were used on the very rare 1922 Amperexs...


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-Double-Triode-Tubes-Lot-of-4-Slightly-Used-TESTED-/221242526789?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3383150c45
> 
> Matching '73 date codes as well!


 
  I thought you said 75-..-, how do you know the date anyways? do you have link to a document for date checking?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Freaking hilarious!!!   Yeah those invertered saucer getters were used on the very rare 1922 Amperexs...


 
  what are these mysterious goodies/\


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> I thought you said 75-..-, how do you know the date anyways? do you have link to a document for date checking?


 

 The date is printed right on the front in the picture - no mysterious date decoding needed.
   
  Well I have not heard these '73s - so time will tell.  I hope they are as good as the '75s - or even better!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> what are these mysterious goodies/\


 

 counterfeit tubes


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> counterfeit tubes


 
   
  They chose a really great tube to use as the counterfeit though, very happy with these.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> During a brownout/power failure you don't have that sort of luxury. I just took it as warning, don't leave the Schiit on unattended, unless you don't care about parts.


 
  I use a Furman Power conditioner   If I had the consistent brownout/power failures you describe in your area I would purchase a more advanced unit.
   
  This began with a question about Not leaving your headphones plugged in while the Lyr is running.
  Are you saying this is OK and why?
   
  EDIT
   
Jack Elliano of Electra-Fidelity made custom output transformers for me.  He's been making them along with custom audiophile equipment for over 40 years.
  Jack said "Don't run them without a load.  I'm going with him.
   
  Now you could make a 100 ohm plus shunt for a 1/4" stereo plug and use that instead of headphones.  But I would put a load on it.


----------



## Overwerk

it saddens me to see that after I plugged in one of my two cryo platinum telefunkens from upscale in with visible all-9 slanted(slightly) pins because I thought if they double treated this tube and shipped it to me this way it shouldn't be a big deal  in their eyes unless they are freaking blind?
   
  well it turnsr out it is, after I pulled them out the textbook lyr style, the non slanted tube was just as expected--usb gold plating last months on end, all my other gold pin tubes has shown no wear---------yet the slanted tube pins all got worn, What?
   
  What!
   
  I emailed them, I hope they act reasonably responsible citizens and not BS me with anthing like it's ok just use it it's no big deal the sound is not influenced--
   
  I blew 300 on these!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> They chose a really great tube to use as the counterfeit though, very happy with these.


 

 You paid less the the gold plate cost.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I use a Furman Power conditioner   If I had the consistent brownout/power failures you describe in your area I would purchase a more advanced unit.
> 
> This began with a question about Not leaving your headphones plugged in while the Lyr is running.
> Are you saying this is OK and why?
> ...


 

 Why not just a cheap $19 pr of full size headphones from Best buy, that's what I do


----------



## hedphonz

Been offered these mullards - prices are in $NZ so deduct around 25% for US
   
 MULLARD MITCHUM CODES E88CC/CV2492 MILITARY GOLD PIN PAIR  $200.00
  
 MULLARD BLACKBURN CODES ECC88/CV5383 MILITARY STANDARD PAIR $150.00
  
 MULLARD BLACBURN CODES ECC88 /652 PAIR $100.00
  
 trying to decide which to go for - all are matched pairs


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Why not just a cheap $19 pr of full size headphones from Best buy, that's what I do


 
  perfect.  just give it a load.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> They chose a really great tube to use as the counterfeit though, very happy with these.


 

 could've been worse...a Reflector


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> perfect.  just give it a load.


 

 It's really bad to operate tube driven amps like the Woo WA6SE w/o load.  Good you brought this up. 
   
  Had a friend that used to like to hot swap speaker cables on his tube amp...until he fried a tranny.


----------



## rb2013

Here is a fishy ad: 
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-pcs-NOS-and-USED-6N23P-6N23P-EV-ECC88-6DJ8-E88CC-Vintage-USSR-1970s-80s-/121140122629?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c34839405
   
  He has various Voskhod date codes in the ad - but then posts pictures of a different date code!
   
  Are you getting 1980 Voskhod Rockets or the 1970s ones he's listed.
   
  That guy I'd stay away from.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> It's really bad to operate tube driven amps like the Woo WA6SE w/o load.  Good you brought this up.
> 
> Had a friend that used to like to hot swap speaker cables on his tube amp...until he fried a tranny.


 
  I wuz just say'n
   
  What I do not know is.. Does the Lyr have output transformers since it is a SS hybrid?
  Nonetheless, I don't think it's a good idea and it is very easy to mitigate.
  Radio Shack.  1/4" plug one resistor solder.  $5


----------



## lugnut

what are these ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-DUAL-TRIODE-LOT-OF-4-NEW-TUBES-NOS-/330953024249?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Tubes&hash=item4d0e5662f9


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> It's really bad to operate tube driven amps like the Woo WA6SE w/o load.  Good you brought this up.
> 
> Had a friend that used to like to hot swap speaker cables on his tube amp...until he fried a tranny.


 

 He fried a tranny? Good Lord. Is that even...legal?


----------



## Zuckfun

rb2013 said:


> Why not just a cheap $19 pr of full size headphones from Best buy, that's what I do


 Or just turn the volume all the way down so no sound is coming out.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Or just turn the volume all the way down so no sound is coming out.


 
  The volume potentiometer varies the source not the output.


----------



## Zuckfun

sceleratus said:


> The volume potentiometer varies the source not the output.


 Oh...I guess turning the volume down wouldn't spare the headphones any, woops.


----------



## Sanlitun

overwerk said:


> it saddens me to see that after I plugged in one of my two cryo platinum telefunkens from upscale in with visible all-9 slanted(slightly) pins because I thought if they double treated this tube and shipped it to me this way it shouldn't be a big deal  in their eyes unless they are freaking blind?
> 
> well it turnsr out it is, after I pulled them out the textbook lyr style, the non slanted tube was just as expected--usb gold plating last months on end, all my other gold pin tubes has shown no wear---------yet the slanted tube pins all got worn, What?
> 
> ...




My Upscale Telefunkens are supposed to be arriving tomorrow. If they have bent pins or shady date codes I am going to go ballistic. I'm buying from them to avoid all of the nonsense going on at Ebay.

Can I ask what date codes you got?


----------



## mhamel

The Lyr does not use output transformers. 






sceleratus said:


> I wuz just say'n
> 
> What I do not know is.. Does the Lyr have output transformers since it is a SS hybrid?
> Nonetheless, I don't think it's a good idea and it is very easy to mitigate.
> Radio Shack.  1/4" plug one resistor solder.  $5


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> My Upscale Telefunkens are supposed to be arriving tomorrow. If they have bent pins or shady date codes I am going to go ballistic. I'm buying from them to avoid all of the nonsense going on at Ebay.
> 
> Can I ask what date codes you got?


 
  date codes, not with the date codes...I am bursting to tears as I found out that those duomax dampers with their super tight engineering making sure they don't slip off when they actually are to otight even for hands to conveniently get them off smudged a U out of my telefunken, and then took a way the top angle in the front, and on the other one they took away 2 letters on top in the back and smudged the whole made in germany into 2 circles of dust. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least the original listing has my pair as the main pictures. 4 of them, enough for a blind person to know that my smudged one is indeed that pair. But I am not selling these anyways and I don't look at anything let along tubes when I enjoy hifi music. It sets my senses aside and leave my hearing at peace.
   
  At least I realised it soon enough to not damage my 100% NOS upscale ones. These babies, along with most my other tubes have no noise anyways,  I am probably looking at returning those duomax for a refund if they can't resolve this issue for me, and if any noise happens again I am getting rx-9s or ss-9s from herbie. You know what I take that back, I am going to order some herbies right now and check that they are better or worse than the duomax and let you folks know. I should have went with all Herbies instead of going cheap. The Dayton Audio cones that came had broken box seal that the seller declined knowing off, had 2 staples that sealed the inside clear cover that the seller claimed never used, was dusty, and height adjust was as loose and rattling as it gets, and the foam pads are permanent, meaning I would need a new set of 8 foam pads with adhesive every time I haul my stuff for a move with the Schiits in their original foam and box, unless --oh wait, I don' thave to.. only the base is fixed.. haha. But still, herbies being more expensive, sounds way more trustworthy than this Dayton thing that you can find no review or information of, so they would  be the ultimate upgrade(tenderfoot looks solid but too generic comparing to the iso cups, and I checked, these cups are second generation with newer design and material. the older ones had clear cups.)
   
  enough of rant, back to your request
   
  why, do you have a table? if you have a table to check date I'll give you my date.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> He fried a tranny? Good Lord. Is that even...legal?


 

 Good one


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Oh...I guess turning the volume down wouldn't spare the headphones any, woops.


 

 Lightning strikes are the worst!


----------



## Overwerk

wow, Sandy who's selling the duomax has been more than kind providing lengthy explanation of the mechanics of their product. I am amazed at their attitude. Props. I will need to set aside time for testing, and if I get around to it, reconsider my urge to try the Herbies.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> The Lyr does not use output transformers.


 
  Intuitively, that made sense


----------



## Sanlitun

The very bottom of this page has a table for checking date codes on late 60's and 70's Telefunken:

http://www.tubemuseum.org/SearchResults.asp?Cat=23

My best pair have the date code worn off but I figure they are about 1965. The set I got from Tubemonger are U3218104 so 1968 if the codes are real.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> date codes, not with the date codes...I am bursting to tears as I found out that those duomax dampers with their super tight engineering making sure they don't slip off when they actually are to otight even for hands to conveniently get them off smudged a U out of my telefunken, and then took a way the top angle in the front, and on the other one they took away 2 letters on top in the back and smudged the whole made in germany into 2 circles of dust.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  me like herbie's....


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> me like herbie's....


 
  wait, is this your picture? I know that's rx9, they roll on to the tube so they should not smudge telefunkens as much as a heavily tight rubber O ring made of space heat resistance material right? 
   
  what tube are those? interesting inner


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> wait, is this your picture? I know that's rx9, they roll on to the tube so they should not smudge telefunkens as much as a heavily tight rubber O ring made of space heat resistance material right?
> 
> what tube are those? interesting inner


 
  yup and yup. no smudge.
  Those are Amperex USN-CEP


----------



## sceleratus

Might as well shamelessly put up the third one.
  These have been around the block a time or two.  Those that know may yawn.


----------



## Overwerk

listening to the cryo platinum matsu****a national tubes from Upscale, man, I swear if they didn't send me one fully bent pins tube out of each of the 2 pairs  of premium tubes I bought, I would have rate them my favorite tube seller because all their shiit is BRAND BRAND fricking new and comes in original box plated with their cryo no noise label, and it's not even like they charge me a lot, their price is cheaper than the cheapest ebay deals and I would happily pay if it's well used, and it's the total contrary! Tubemonger gets a 8 out of 10 because their price is not very good but they are the only tube seller that pack them in their exotic Korean lock lock cases that if I buy myself would cost me some dollar for a set of 12 or something...I mean I can, but I wouldn't go out of my way to buy them for tubes, but they went out of their way to ship them in those at their expense and it is really welcoming for any customer, well at least I enjoy every purchase there minus the mediocre price
   
  tubemonger email reply is pretty fast, but they grew tired of my questions after about 20 messages back and forth, maybe it's just me, but they seem pretty self conscious about it all, and they don't sound like seller humble enough to give cheap prices for great stuff anyways. At least their website is pretty neat. Tubemonger shipping, 4 bucks for any order to USA, deadly fast. I mean DEADLY fast. they probably have some deals with the shipping companies. overall gets 8.5
   
  Upscale, price and quality both gets a 9. Website could use some brighter color but still great. service, I haven't talked to them, but their shipping is free above some 90 buck or some like that, which is neat except it's a week's wait but if you can wait that bit it's really neat. They  used 3 none flimsy generic rubber band to bury my 2 sets of tube in foam nuts, which is, well, why not give me some case love too like tubemonger?But all of their tubes are pristine new!! no dust debris every lettering is clear and fresh! Overall gets a 9.5 out of 10
   
  cryoset.com, the cryo specialist, a shame they don't cryo the better tubes--I bought their best 1 week ago--the gold lions super cryo-ed
  http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=6n1p&search_in_description=1&osCsid=120e2b1e84df8fe47fba3f0f30c1edd2&x=0&y=0
  they have all  sort of the voshod tubes
  can't say much about them, I would like to see if any voshod expert let me know which one of the 5 to get, and I am stuck because I just got their shipment a few days ago and I don't want to have to pay another 8 bucks for their cheapest fricking shipping for some voshods, but if anywhere I would get voshods there if some voshod expert says what they ahve is good. They do certainly have some legit ones, but another thing is I need to ask them whether some of those listings are for one tube or a pair, I am guessing a pair, because their most expensive pair is 40 bucks and the least expensive ones are already 10-20 bucks so if it's only one tube why would a pair be the same price as the best ones.
  UPDATE:
  so, I have checked again, 3 of those 5 are voshods, that is, made in that kalu something plant in russia, which means quality, and then only one out of those 3 is a listing of MATCHED pair, is SUPER CRYO SUPER AT THAT, and the best thing of it all--they only charge 5 bucks for super cryo+matching pair!! I am so biting the unnecesary shipping duplicate in a week and getting these unless someone stops me--the other 4 listings have various dates, these ones being 1977, its unmatched un super cryo single tube counterpart listing being 1980, some non voshods being 1972, some voshod at 1973 but I run cryo because I am so pleased by the outcome, so haha, 1977 is good enough.
   
  mercedesman, only tube seller to provide detailed table information on ebay page, only seller to provide instruction with package, only seller that generously accept offers if you are nice enough about it. That top rated plus don't like, only top rated plus seller I have bought from on ebay for tubes. Have a ton of great stuff too.
  9.5 out of 10


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> yup and yup. no smudge.
> Those are Amperex USN-CEP


 
  I just missed a pair and someone bidded them away for 100 bucks, damne they are msrp 200 bucks!! well I have enough oranges, but still those are supposed to be the best oranges right


----------



## Overwerk

I have one question: will Lyr outlast 10k hours rated on the telefunkens? cus I have a good selection of tubes that should last 10X that much and more.


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I don't recommend leaving expensive headphones running unattended. I did it for a while, then realized a power failure + Lyr could have taken them out. I was lucky, since we seem to have momentary power outages in my neck of the woods quite often.


 

 But a power failure can occur when the headphone is under surveillance or not


----------



## Overwerk

so, the "super cryo" "7dj8 pcc88 matsu****a（will talk about this)" MADE IN JAPAN from cryoset.com. OMG, I can safely say they sound better than the ones from tubemonger for sure, mind you, their regular ones are cheaper, and their cryo ones too, and the super cryo ones are just at hair more expensive than the tubemonger ones, ,AND they have fully preserved pristine tube with clear print work.  AND they are SUPER cryo. Read it about on their website, I don't want to copy paste for you..
   
  I don't even want to check because the ones on tubemonger well, my pairs have surprisingly gone through a whole lot more wear and my mental perception of their existence in my collection than I actually have--they were bought only this spring. And now I feel like I have had them forever, because I recently bought a ton of tubes from other places and really started with tuberolling thanks to this thread.
   
  I bought them because someone on facebook suggested a 30 dollar pair from tubemonger as great buy, and I looked at it, and I asked tubemonger, and they provided me with 3 pairs of their recoommendation and I chose eventually the most expensive ones--the matsu****a e88ccs(oh yeahs did I meantion, they are not pcc88s, PLEASE someone explain the difference if there necessarily is one, I mean I know there must be I just got stupid and thought oh, national, they must be the same thing and I paid more for tubemonger..and forgot about the details)
   
  but now I have all three pair because what do I know, I am too stupid, and they have another sale going on that I missed with my nationals the first time.
   
  Now back to matsu****a, I just checked wikipedia, seems like they only just changed to panasonic the name a few years ago, WHAT? I have been living my whole life with panasonic this and panasonic that, 
   
  Then I remember this one thing. I remember this fancy workhorse of a tumbler my mom bought. It  is such a fancy exotic looking workhorse it had some crazy modes for all kinds of delicate clothing. And it's super fast, super silent, and super powerful. Only it started shaking violently after some time. 
   
  Well, if my memory serves me right, I remember wondering why they had NATIONAL written on them, yep, on the front, because I knew we were buying Panasonic sschiit, so why NATIONAL label on the front??well now I know.
   
  So what['s the deal with these tubes panasonic made anyways??


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> i meant the one you bought. And I did sift through most of them , I don't see anyone or any picture with date information


 
   
  About 6N23P 
  And these are they any good?


 http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=12
   
  We see in the picture that they have the rocket logo. 16 $ a pair


----------



## billerb1

Quote: 





> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  In case anyone's interested I have a pair of the above-mentioned  Premium Grade, cryrogenically treated Matsu****a/National PCC88's from Upscale Audio on the For Sale Forum for $39 + $8 shipping.  I'll ship CONUS.  The tubes have about 50 hours on them and are in perfect condition.  My 67 Mullard CV4109's are getting all the time on my Lyr.  The "super cryo's" need a home.  PM me.
   
  ****S O L D*****


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> In case anyone's interested I have a pair of the above-mentioned  Premium Grade, cryrogenically treated Matsu****a/National PCC88's from Upscale Audio on the For Sale Forum for $39 + $8 shipping.  I'll ship CONUS.  The tubes have about 50 hours on them and are in perfect condition.  My 67 Mullard CV4109's are getting all the time on my Lyr.  The "super cryo's" need a home.  PM me.


 
  Oh man yo uare just smashing that in  my face!! I wouldn't mind saving myself 38 bucks!!!
  And I thought I was saving money!! I should have asked them for a discount on a 400 dollar order.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> About 6N23P
> And these are they any good?
> 
> 
> ...


 
  how should I know, I am not the tube expert I am just a starter


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Intuitively, that made sense


 
  Therefore, is that it means that you do not have to leave a headphones plugged in for the burn-in ?


----------



## Overwerk

Listening to Keren Ann, Lady Bird, Azure Ray on these p88cc nationals, wow, wowo, wowowowowo!! I haven't listened to these singers in ages, and it is such a welcoming way to go back to them0---last time I was listening to them it was on some cheap desktop stereos!!
   
  since both these and the e88ccs from tubemonger are mullard tooling, they really sound similar, and I have to say they sound much cleaner because they are dead silent!! zero noise!! I think I don't really need to buy some mullard except for collection purposes--those shield logo give me drolls


----------



## Rudiger

This is encouraging, as I have ordered I can not wait to receive mine! I wonder if they will be better than the Siemens ECC85 I find already excellent.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





lugnut said:


> what are these ?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-DUAL-TRIODE-LOT-OF-4-NEW-TUBES-NOS-/330953024249?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Tubes&hash=item4d0e5662f9


 
   
  Those are 1990 small grey shield voskhod rockets, not the best year or construction, i'd avoid those and look for better, in my experience you want 1970's grey or silver shield or early 80's silver shield.
   
  Quote: 





rudiger said:


> About 6N23P
> And these are they any good?
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Depends what year and construction they are, picture might just be for illustration purposes and you might get a not very good year, or even worse they might send you saratov/reflektor tubes.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> This is encouraging, as I have ordered I can not wait to receive mine! I wonder if they will be better than the Siemens ECC85 I find already excellent.


 
  Wait, how many people have I sorta caused to buying from upscale?))
   
  are you referring to the p88cc nationals?


----------



## Rudiger

Ah no, I refer to the "Matsu****a Japan 6922 E88CC tubes. Mullard Tooling. National label and box." from tubemonger.


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Those are 1990 small grey shield voskhod rockets, not the best year or construction, i'd avoid those and look for better, in my experience you want 1970's grey or silver shield or early 80's silver shield.
> 
> 
> Depends what year and construction they are, picture might just be for illustration purposes and you might get a not very good year, or even worse they might send you saratov/reflektor tubes.


 

 Thanx for answer. Um, I'll ask them what year they are and if they are really rocket.
  If the picture does not match it would be unfair to them


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> Thanx for answer. Um, I'll ask them what year they are and if they are really rocket.
> If the picture does not match it would be unfair to them


 

 I like Cryoset - have bought from them for years.
   
  They don't carry 6N23P Rockets - only Reflektors.


----------



## rb2013

Schiit - should get a rebate on every pr of 6922 tubes sold.  They must be single-handedly responsible for selling hundreds of NOS tubes!


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> I like Cryoset - have bought from them for years.
> 
> They don't carry 6N23P Rockets - only Relfectors.


 
  It is on tubes-store


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> It is on tubes-store


 

 Sorry getting back to Overwork
   
   
  Quote: 





> UPDATE:
> so, I have checked again, 3 of those 5 are voshods, that is, made in that kalu something plant in russia, which means quality, and then only one out of those 3 is a listing of MATCHED pair, is SUPER CRYO SUPER AT THAT, and the best thing of it all--they only charge 5 bucks for super cryo+matching pair!! I am so biting the unnecesary shipping duplicate in a week and getting these unless someone stops me--the other 4 listings have various dates, these ones being 1977, its unmatched un super cryo single tube counterpart listing being 1980, some non voshods being 1972, some voshod at 1973 but I run cryo because I am so pleased by the outcome, so haha, 1977 is good enough.


 
   
  I think he was looking to order from Cyroset.  I like Cryoset - have bought from them for years.
   
  They don't carry 6N23P Rockets - only Reflektors.


----------



## Sanlitun

rudiger said:


> About 6N23P
> And these are they any good?
> 
> 
> ...




It looks like the tubes in the pic have a 1971 date code so certainly interesting.


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> It looks like the tubes in the pic have a 1971 date code so certainly interesting.


 
  Tubes-Store answer :
"[size=12.727272033691406px]Hi,[/size]
  [size=12.727272033691406px][/size]
[size=12.727272033691406px]Tubes were made in 197x-198x. The rocked logo (Voskhod plant) is present![/size][size=12.727272033691406px][/size]
 [size=12.727272033691406px]We sent you a pair tubes with the same datacodes."[/size]


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> Tubes-Store answer :
> "[size=12.727272033691406px]Hi,[/size]
> [size=12.727272033691406px][/size]
> [size=12.727272033691406px]Tubes were made in 197x-198x. The rocked logo (Voskhod plant) is present![/size][size=12.727272033691406px][/size]
> [size=12.727272033691406px]We sent you a pair tubes with the same datacodes."[/size]


 

 That's quite a date range and not what they're advertising
   
   
  Quote: 





> We sent you a pair tubes with the same datacodes.


 
  How kind!  So sketchy.  I'll sell you 2 prs of 198x Voskhod Rockets for the $16 + $8 in shipping.  Tested -USPS


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> But a power failure can occur when the headphone is under surveillance or not


 
   
  I'm pretty fast. Usually there is a couple seconds before the power comes back. Enough time to yank the connector.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Sorry getting back to Overwork
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  And they suuuuuck.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> And they suuuuuck.


 
   
  Yes, Reflektor/Saratov are junk, avoid.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> And they suuuuuck.


 

 +1 on that - so do the Voskhod Rocket 6n1p which they carry - easy to get confused.  I have a box full if anyone is interested - Cryo treated by Cryoset.
   
  Went through his website - didn't see any 6n23p V-Rs.  Maybe I missed something.
   
  He's a really nice guy and will do his Cryo treatment on tubes you send him - I think he charged me $8 a tube - but don't hold me to that.
   
  Years ago I kept asking him to get the 6n23p VRs - never did -oh well.
   
  If I get a good stash of these early to mid '70s - I'll send him some to do his treatment on.
   
  I agree - my experience with Cryoing tubes has been good.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Yes, Reflektor/Saratov are junk, avoid.


 

 I agree, accept the 1967 Reflektor OTKs I recently got -  with the saucer getters and dimpled posts - weren't bad.  About on a par with the silver shield 1980 V-Rs.  A little loose in the mid bass - nice detail though.  Haven't burned them in  - many in line in
  front.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I'm pretty fast. Usually there is a couple seconds before the power comes back. Enough time to yank the connector.


 

 When there is even a chance of a lightning strike - I unplug all my stereo equipment from the wall socket.  Even turned off a direct hit can fry your equipment.  Fortunately Seattle get very little lightning - not like when I lived in S. OR.


----------



## frostworth

Hi guys, new the whole audiophile thing, but I've sort of just jumped the gun and purchased a Schiit Lyr and an HE-500. Not looking to buy a DAC at the moment since I just threw a ton of cash, but is it fine just to hook up this amp to my computer with RCA to 3.5mm cables? There wouldn't be any problems with that, right?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Yes, Reflektor/Saratov are junk, avoid.


 

 The early 70's pair of Reflektor 6N23P-EB I am listening to in my Musical Fidelity X-Can V2 sound absolutely amazing...


----------



## rb2013

Check these out!  Made in England - just east of Moscow.  They are a rare pair! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-6DJ8-ECC88-UNITED-Original-Equipment-England-NOS-Woo-Audio-3-6n23p-/200924586381?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2ec809e18d


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> +1 on that - so do the Voskhod Rocket 6n1p which they carry - easy to get confused.  I have a box full if anyone is interested - Cryo treated by Cryoset.
> 
> Went through his website - didn't see any 6n23p V-Rs.  Maybe I missed something.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





nightflight said:


> And they suuuuuck.


 
  oh well you all just save me some bucks. deleted the two pairs in my shopping cart. )


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> oh well you all just save me some bucks. deleted the two pairs in my shopping cart. )


 

 I guess they were 6N1P Voskhods


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> I guess they were 6N1P Voskhods


 
  there is the 6n23p reflector. no date mentioned


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Check these out!  Made in England - just east of Moscow.  They are a rare pair!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  what kind of UFO alien getter is that  are these nice sounding?


----------



## Lord Soth

overwerk said:


> what kind of UFO alien getter is that  are these nice sounding?




Those were recovered from Roswell.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> what kind of UFO alien getter is that  are these nice sounding?


 

 They are fakes!  They look like Voskhods - the cheesy 'made in England' is a joke.
   
  So this is what my life has come down to - trolling dark seedy Ebay alleys populated by Russian counterfeit glass dealers.
   
  Somebody please Help me!


----------



## Zuckfun

Hopefully those who recently received the Upscale Telefunkens will share their impressions. The USN-CEP's are fantastic tubes- well rounded, gorgeous Amperex sound, and bass SLAM. I'm glad to say my tube search (atleast temporarily) has reached a happy conclusion. Don't underestimate Upscale's Ediswans. Some of the clearest and cleanest tubes I've heard. Between the OG's, USN-CEP's, and Ediswan, I have enough great glass to keep me rocking and rolling for years. Thanks for everyone's help and input- My headphone smile is partly because of you.


----------



## jmsaxon69

frostworth said:


> Hi guys, new the whole audiophile thing, but I've sort of just jumped the gun and purchased a Schiit Lyr and an HE-500. Not looking to buy a DAC at the moment since I just threw a ton of cash, but is it fine just to hook up this amp to my computer with RCA to 3.5mm cables? There wouldn't be any problems with that, right?




That'll work fine to get you by for now. Unfortunately the quality of that audio out on your computer is going to hurt the sound quality, but you know it's just temporary....what kind of files do you plan on playing and with what software?


----------



## Sanlitun

My Upscale Telefunkens arrived today and I was pretty disappointed to find they had the disputed u2108604f date codes and on one of the tubes rather badly bent pins (see http://www.head-fi.org/g/i/884760/a/785793/telefunken-e88cc-purchased-from-upscale-audio/sort/display_order/). 

There are a lot of these Telefunken tubes floating around on Ebay and with various dealers and a lot of doubt surrounding them. There are people who say they are reworks, military surplus pulls or that they are relabeled ECC88 or 6DJ8. In my opinion they are certainly genuine Telefunken tubes either E88CC or ECC88 from the late 60's, but they are probably not new tubes in the modern sense of the word "new". I actually think that Upscale Audio handles this well by selling these by grade and ignoring the back story. 

So how do they sound? Well interestingly enough they are fabulous. Crystal clear treble without a hint of congestion or opacity. Fantastic resolution with that sort of "they're in the room" presence that only tubes can give you. This is why I love Telefunken tubes.

In any event I am happy to have these and happy I just didn't send them back out of hand.


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> My Upscale Telefunkens arrived today and I was pretty disappointed to find they had the disputed u2108604f date codes and on one of the tubes rather badly bent pins (see http://www.head-fi.org/g/i/884760/a/785793/telefunken-e88cc-purchased-from-upscale-audio/sort/display_order/).
> 
> There are a lot of these Telefunken tubes floating around on Ebay and with various dealers and a lot of doubt surrounding them. There are people who say they are reworks, military surplus pulls or that they are relabeled ECC88 or 6DJ8. In my opinion they are certainly genuine Telefunken tubes either E88CC or ECC88 from the late 60's, but they are probably not new tubes in the modern sense of the word "new". I actually think that Upscale Audio handles this well by selling these by grade and ignoring the back story.
> 
> ...


 
   
  are these the ones ?
   
   
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-E88CC-%7B47%7D-6922.html


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> are these the ones ?
> 
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Telefunken-E88CC-%7B47%7D-6922.html


 
  yes. Can anyone explain why they come in such pristine state? how in the world can these tubes have perfectly new print and clean glass? and why is the print in yellow instead of owhite?


----------



## Overwerk

the mullard tooling style is really that kind of swag sound that puts you in that comfort zone yet elegantly so. Granted they are not the best detail, but they really have that attitude.
   
  it's like listening to some really great vinyl or some great old stereo or boombox.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Well what do we have here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  I have some like this. I bought some from Jim Fish 15 years ago like this. Half had these 'funny' gold pins, half didn't. They were certainly Russian 'fat bottles' from 60sn or 70s. I will see if I can dig them out, fairly sure they are all badged by Pinnacle as Foreign. I also think they carried the CV2492 lable.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> The early 70's pair of Reflektor 6N23P-EB I am listening to in my Musical Fidelity X-Can V2 sound absolutely amazing...


 
   
  The -EB or -EV version are a completely different animal, the standard 6N23P Reflektors are lacklustre.
   
  rb2013 seems to have found a 1967 pair that sound good, but i'm betting he can find Voskhods from a greater number of years that sound the same or better.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> The -EB or -EV version are a completely different animal, the standard 6N23P Reflektors are lacklustre.
> 
> rb2013 seems to have found a 1967 pair that sound good, but i'm betting he can find Voskhods from a greater number of years that sound the same or better.


 

 +1 Yes the the 1967 Reflektors had a different getter - the inverted saucer getter - like the Voskhods.
   
  I have these 1983 Reflektors treated with the Super Cyro Treatment I bought from Cryoset years ago.  They suck compared to any of the Voskhods.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





> Nic Rhodes "They were certainly Russian 'fat bottles' from 60sn or 70s."


 
  How do you know the dates if they have been wiped clean?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> How do you know the dates if they have been wiped clean?


 
  The construction probably gives them away, the pair i have with the long silver shield are most likely 1970's, anywhere from 71-79 at a guess, i've not seen any 60's or 80's with the long silver shield yet.
   
  From the tubes i've had, the construction appears to be the following:
   
  Long grey shield with dual getter supports: 69 and 70
  Long grey shield: 71-77
  Long silver shield: 75-79
  Short silver shield: 78-84
  Short grey shield: 84-2002
   
  I've only owned a limited quantity of these tubes so the ranges might possibly expand a little bit more, but it seems they changed the tooling very often, very inconsistent.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> How do you know the dates if they have been wiped clean?


 

 beacause of the source the tubes were originally bought from, placed in store until I went through the stash.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> The construction probably gives them away, the pair i have with the long silver shield are most likely 1970's, anywhere from 71-79 at a guess, i've not seen any 60's or 80's with the long silver shield yet.
> 
> From the tubes i've had, the construction appears to be the following:
> 
> ...


 

 Is this for just the Voskhod Rockets?  Do you mean the horizontal grids being long or short (in the middle of the top mica)?  Or the vertical shield that leads up and becomes the getter post (that run up the outside portion of the tube)?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Is this for just the Voskhod Rockets?  Do you mean the horizontal grids being long or short (in the middle of the top mica)?  Or the vertical shield that leads up and becomes the getter post (that run up the outside portion of the tube)?


 
   
  Yes just my experiences with the rockets.
   
  What i mean by shield is like the following picture, i identify them from the top of the shield protruding from the top mica and underneath the getter.


----------



## rb2013

http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/7725#post_9537003
   
  Oh yes I remember now.  I call them grids. Thanks!  I stay with the terminology from the S&H CCa - the "shield" being the vertical plate.
   
  Of course the difference with the Voskhod Rockets the shield runs all the way up and becomes the getter post.
   
  S&H CCa gray shield (from www.Tubeworld.com site  https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm)

   
   
   
  S&H CCa Silver shield

   
   
   
  Voskhod 6N23P - Silver 'shield' and Gray 'shield'
   

   
   
   
   

   
  One of the problems in using this horizontal grid (you call 'shield')  for classification is that some have 2 colored grids - silver on one side/ gray on the other (see the Head-Fi post link on the top).
   
  I think the confusion is our different terminology.
   
  Of course this will all be forgotten in three pages of new posts!  Which ones are silver?


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





frostworth said:


> Hi guys, new the whole audiophile thing, but I've sort of just jumped the gun and purchased a Schiit Lyr and an HE-500. Not looking to buy a DAC at the moment since I just threw a ton of cash, but is it fine just to hook up this amp to my computer with RCA to 3.5mm cables? There wouldn't be any problems with that, right?


 
   
  Check this out:  http://hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=107   - it's super cheap, has gotten some really good reviews and will most likely be a good step up from the soundcard output of your computer until or if you decide to go with something more robust like a BiFrost.
   
   
     -Mike


----------



## NightFlight

Tele's finally showed up! $57 brokerage fee to get it across the border on a duty free item. What bullschiit.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> One of the problems in using this horizontal grid (you call 'shield')  for classification is that some have 2 colored grids - silver on one side/ gray on the other (see the Head-Fi post link on the top).


 
   
  Ahh yes i noticed that, in which case i go by the getter post to determine.
   
  I think back in the day the russkies grabbed whatever tooling they could get hold of and materials and thought "This'll do!" and made a production run of tubes, i think that's why we have such different constructions, even in the same year sometimes.
   
  Either that or they had 2 different production lines making the same tubes and only re-tooled them one at a time.
   
  Either way it's fun rolling russian tubes.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Ahh yes i noticed that, in which case i go by the getter post to determine.
> 
> I think back in the day the russkies grabbed whatever tooling they could get hold of and materials and thought "This'll do!" and made a production run of tubes, i think that's why we have such different constructions, even in the same year sometimes.
> 
> ...


 

 +1 Very weird changes in construction.  But of course they would have dropped their Vodka bottles - if someone told them Americanskis' would be collecting them 40 years later to put into their high end audio equipment!
   
  They are fun to listen to.  Do you have Voskhod Rockets from '69 and '70?  Please post fotos if possible would love to see them.  I have the '72s and '73s coming.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> +1 Very weird changes in construction.  But of course they would have dropped their Vodka bottles - if someone told them Americanskis' would be collecting them 40 years later to put into their high end audio equipment!
> 
> They are fun to listen to.  Do you have Voskhod Rockets from '69 and '70?  Please post fotos if possible would love to see them.  I have the '72s and '73s coming.


 
   
  They have dual getter supports, similar to the Reflektor 6N23P's but a bit different, kind of like a cross between the 6N23P and 6N23P-EV Reflektor.
  The 70's seem a tad better than the 69's, sorry about picture quality, using my phone!


----------



## rb2013

Thanks for the pics!  So I guess somewhere in 1971 they went to a single post getter/shield.  Very interesting.  Yes they do look like the '67 Reflektors I found - dimbled getter posts as well.
   
   
  Here a cool photo - "I like my flying saucers right side up"!


----------



## ilikepooters

Here's a better pic...


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Thanks for the pics!  So I guess somewhere in 1971 they went to a single post getter/shield.  Very interesting.  Yes they do look like the '67 Reflektors I found - dimbled getter posts as well.
> 
> 
> Here a cool photo - "I like my flying saucers right side up"!


 
   
  That does look strange seeing the getters in the bottom with the other gubbins so high up.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> That does look strange seeing the getters in the bottom with the other gubbins so high up.


 

 Rumours are these saucer getters where taken from Alien craft that crashed in the Caucuses.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks for the pictures!


----------



## Overwerk

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/aune-t1-amp-dac-combo
   
  120 bucks, worth it?? cus someone on that t1 thread claims that lyr is 15% more of the aune t1.
   
  kind of sketchy to say that , but he owns both.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> yes. Can anyone explain why they come in such pristine state? how in the world can these tubes have perfectly new print and clean glass? and why is the print in yellow instead of owhite?


 
   
  Mine are white. Could be the photo.
   
  Curiously, the print doesn't rub off. I think their reprints. However I'm convinced their top end Tele's . They compete with my Siemens Cca quite handily, just different yet again. Incredibly accurate.  However, they are really dry and missing the euphonic tube sound all together. In fact I wasn't aware of how much was there until it was all gone with this tube.
   
  They test well according to upscale, so if their genuine e88cc's that have been reprinted, it really doesn't matter. They have the diamond bottom, gold pins (mine are pristine and straight) and look correct to me. Guessing they sound correct too since I've nothing to compare them to other than other top end 6922's.
   
  I don't know if they are for me. I think I'm starting to lean more to the CV2493 with my rig. Go figure. *shrug*


----------



## hedphonz

my pair of voskhods arrived - bought cheap and locally
   
  first time i seen  a pair - was expecting the rocket logo but they have the CCCP logo 
   
  ones a 78 the others a 85  - i thought a matched pair meant same variant as well as test results !
   
  bought a load of rubbish ?  sound is unremarkable


----------



## Sanlitun

nightflight said:


> Mine are white. Could be the photo.
> 
> Curiously, the print doesn't rub off. I think their reprints. However I'm convinced their top end Tele's . They compete with my Siemens Cca quite handily, just different yet again. Incredibly accurate.  However, they are really dry and missing the euphonic tube sound all together. In fact I wasn't aware of how much was there until it was all gone with this tube.
> 
> ...




That clear sound is pretty much the classic Telefunken sound. To me it's almost an ideal in that you have very low distortion but still keep the dynamics of tubes. 

This pair that I have from Upscale approaches my favorite (and indisputably genuine) set of Telefunkens in terms of sound. IMHO these are used tubes, and I do see that Upscale does not allude to them being new, much to their credit. Those that are selling these as new or immaculate are certainly not helping their credibility. 

I gather I am done with buying any more Telefunken for the Lyr as it is going to be very difficult to find the genuine item from now on. I don't know where I will go next, I still really enjoy the Matsu 6922 and I have thought about Mullard CV2493 or even the CV4109.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> my pair of voskhods arrived - bought cheap and locally
> 
> first time i seen  a pair - was expecting the rocket logo but they have the CCCP logo
> 
> ...


 
  Those are the Voskhod rockets, if you look closely in the right light you can see the rockets on them, label looks very faded and worn on the left one though, all voskhod rockets that i've had also carry the cccp logo.
   
  If these are NOS they're going to need plenty of burn-in before they sound great, also they are slightly different construction, one being long silver shield and other short silver shield, shouldn't make a lot of difference but maybe a subtle one.
   
  Give them 24 hours of pink noise and have another listen


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Those are the Voskhod rockets, if you look closely in the right light you can see the rockets on them, label looks very faded and worn on the left one though, all voskhod rockets that i've had also carry the cccp logo.
> 
> If these are NOS they're going to need plenty of burn-in before they sound great, also they are slightly different construction, one being long silver shield and other short silver shield, shouldn't make a lot of difference but maybe a subtle one.
> 
> Give them 24 hours of pink noise and have another listen


 
  are you suggesting that all NOS tubes need burn in ? what's a general hours after they really start to sing amount


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Those are the Voskhod rockets, if you look closely in the right light you can see the rockets on them, label looks very faded and worn on the left one though, all voskhod rockets that i've had also carry the cccp logo.
> 
> If these are NOS they're going to need plenty of burn-in before they sound great, also they are slightly different construction, one being long silver shield and other short silver shield, shouldn't make a lot of difference but maybe a subtle one.
> 
> Give them 24 hours of pink noise and have another listen


 
  i think i need to get myself a top quality magnifying glass for reading markings - there not NOS - guy bought a mixed bunch from russia and these were among them - will give them more time listening time though
   
  I trust you got my PM regarding the 2 pairs of rockets i bought from you ?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> That clear sound is pretty much the classic Telefunken sound. To me it's almost an ideal in that you have very low distortion but still keep the dynamics of tubes.
> 
> This pair that I have from Upscale approaches my favorite (and indisputably genuine) set of Telefunkens in terms of sound. IMHO these are used tubes, and I do see that Upscale does not allude to them being new, much to their credit. Those that are selling these as new or immaculate are certainly not helping their credibility.
> 
> I gather I am done with buying any more Telefunken for the Lyr as it is going to be very difficult to find the genuine item from now on. I don't know where I will go next, I still really enjoy the Matsu 6922 and I have thought about Mullard CV2493 or even the CV4109.


 
   
  Bigger sound stage and bottom end + prat on the CV2493. Top end seems a bit light without sacrifice of accuracy on the stage - which I previously assumed impossible. You can crank them out more without any hint of fatigue. They do take adjustment to 'get' them, but if you listen for a week, its like taking off your rosy shades. The world just seems dim.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> my pair of voskhods arrived - bought cheap and locally
> 
> first time i seen  a pair - was expecting the rocket logo but they have the CCCP logo
> 
> ...


 

 So far I have received feedback from 3 of the 5 folks I sold the 1980 Voskhods to.  The feedback has been universally positive - most say they are their second favorite after the OGs.
  No negative comments - none returned for a refund.
   
  I absolutely love these '75s.   What a natural tone, great dynamics and sound stage, liquid flowing mid-range.  And stone cold quiet, I hate noisy tubes - it masks the subtle low level detail that holds those ambient sound field clues.  My '58 BB D getters have a bit of noise.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> are you suggesting that all NOS tubes need burn in ? what's a general hours after they really start to sing amount


 
   
  In my experience, the NOS tubes i've had have generally started to show a marked improvement from anything between 12-24 hours, changes after this have been more subtle.
  Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> i think i need to get myself a top quality magnifying glass for reading markings - there not NOS - guy bought a mixed bunch from russia and these were among them - will give them more time listening time though
> 
> I trust you got my PM regarding the 2 pairs of rockets i bought from you ?


 
   
  Yes got the message! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm having a good listen right now to what i've got left to find some nice tubes for you.


----------



## Zuckfun

Speaking of Orange Globes, mercedesman has a few back in stock, if anyone missed out and is looking for a pair. 67 o-getters


----------



## jmsaxon69

Just curious, if a goods number of you guys are into tubes this much, why not own a Valhalla and have even more fun? (This has nothing to do with the fact that I am selling mine, I swear!)


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Just curious, if a goods number of you guys are into tubes this much, why not own a Valhalla and have even more fun? (This has nothing to do with the fact that I am selling mine, I swear!)


 
   
  I don't think it quite has the power for the planar magnetic beasts does it? Also it's OTL, so suited for high impedence?


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Just curious, if a goods number of you guys are into tubes this much, why not own a Valhalla and have even more fun? (This has nothing to do with the fact that I am selling mine, I swear!)


 
   
  In many cases, especially with orthos, the Lyr is a much better match for the cans than Valhalla.   In my own case, it's not only that, but the fact that the Lyr had a preamp output, plus I already had some 6DJ8-family tubes around even before I started rolling in the Lyr.
   
    -Mike


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I don't think it quite has the power for the planar magnetic beasts does it? Also it's OTL, so suited for high impedence?


 

 Yes, actually why I am getting ride of mine, I have HE-400 inbound and my other main cans are the AKG in my sig line and they don't sound "great" with the Valhalla.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> In many cases, especially with orthos, the Lyr is a much better match for the cans than Valhalla.   In my own case, it's not only that, but the fact that the Lyr had a preamp output, plus I already had some 6DJ8-family tubes around even before I started rolling in the Lyr.
> 
> -Mike


 

 So that is a pre out on the Lyr? They make a deal out of it on the Asgard 2, but no real mention of it on the Lyr page, thought it could/might be a tape out type situation. I am leaning Lyr, why I've been watching this thread.  I'd like to be ready for whatever headphone I want to buy...


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> So that is a pre out on the Lyr? They make a deal out of it on the Asgard 2, but no real mention of it on the Lyr page, thought it could/might be a tape out type situation. I am leaning Lyr, why I've been watching this thread.  I'd like to be ready for whatever headphone I want to buy...


 
   
  Yep, definitely a pre-out, I drive a pair of M-Audio CX-5 powered monitors at the moment with mine.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> So that is a pre out on the Lyr? They make a deal out of it on the Asgard 2, but no real mention of it on the Lyr page, thought it could/might be a tape out type situation. I am leaning Lyr, why I've been watching this thread.  I'd like to be ready for whatever headphone I want to buy...


 
   
  Watch out for a possible roaring tube habit.  I must have around $1K in tubes. _Stupid Lyr._




   
  I think I'm all done for a while, unless some super rare items come my way for cheap.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Watch out for a possible roaring tube habit.  I must have around $1K in tubes. _Stupid Lyr._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  yeah me too, i am still considering rtc e188cc shipped for 90 a pair, but I cant bear the oversea shipping wait and it's not like it's so much cheaper--the seller only allowed zero discount and waiver shipping


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Yep, definitely a pre-out, I drive a pair of M-Audio CX-5 powered monitors at the moment with mine.


 
   
  Doh! I completely forgot about the pre out... I've been switching my Foobar output selection for the last couple days to go to my little cheapie AV30s. I really have to redo the cabinets on them, their not the best.
   
  But... I'm all curious now to see how they sound via the Bifrost and Lyr pre outs.  That sounds like some totally free fun for the weekend.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Watch out for a possible roaring tube habit.  I must have around $1K in tubes. _Stupid Lyr._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Fortunately when I find something that sounds good to me I will have the restraint to stop! I know what I like and I realize chasing the last couple percent of "perfect sound"  can be a costly and frustrating affair.  Like when I stuck those Reflektor 6N23P in my X-Can v2, sounded better than stock and nothing sounded bad, so DONE!


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Watch out for a possible roaring tube habit.  I must have around $1K in tubes. _Stupid Lyr._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A few months ago, I started buying up some oddball/alternate tubes on eBay, tubes that work well in the Lyr but don't seem to get into the mainstream discussion here.  Many of them are built in the same Blackburn, Herleen and Munich factories, with the same materials, as the super expensive glass that gets all of the press, but at much lower prices.  I have found some stuff that sounds every bit as good as the expensive glass I own, along with others that while not in that absolute top tier, still sound very good to excellent.  I've got a box of mid 60s through 1970 Bugle Boys and OGs now that I need to go through as well, probably 20-25 pairs of those.  That led to buying a Maxi Preamp tube tester/matcher, and now I'm sitting on an inventory of over 750 tubes, finally getting close to start selling some of them.
   
     -Mike


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> A few months ago, I started buying up some oddball/alternate tubes on eBay, tubes that work well in the Lyr but don't seem to get into the mainstream discussion here.  Many of them are built in the same Blackburn, Herleen and Munich factories, with the same materials, as the super expensive glass that gets all of the press, but at much lower prices.  I have found some stuff that sounds every bit as good as the expensive glass I own, along with others that while not in that absolute top tier, still sound very good to excellent.  I've got a box of mid 60s through 1970 Bugle Boys and OGs now that I need to go through as well, probably 20-25 pairs of those.  That led to buying a Maxi Preamp tube tester/matcher, and now I'm sitting on an inventory of over 750 tubes, finally getting close to start selling some of them.
> 
> -Mike


 
  do you have rtc e188cc white labels? do you think they are worth 90 bucks a pair?


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> do you have rtc e188cc white labels? do you think they are worth 90 bucks a pair?


 
   
  I've got two pairs of them.   They're very nice tubes, and from what I've read here from several people, they are possibly end-game tubes with the HD650s, but I wasn't thrilled with them in comparison to the halo-getter Herleen rtc tubes.   Those tubes for $90 a pair aren't necessarily matched.   The same seller lists them as a "lot of 2" for $90, but also has another listing for a matched pair for $160 BIN and another listing for matched pairs with a $110 starting bid.
   
     -Mike


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> I've got two pairs of them.   They're very nice tubes, and from what I've read here from several people, they are possibly end-game tubes with the HD650s, but I wasn't thrilled with them in comparison to the halo-getter Herleen rtc tubes.   Those tubes for $90 a pair aren't necessarily matched.   The same seller lists them as a "lot of 2" for $90, but also has another listing for a matched pair for $160 BIN and another listing for matched pairs with a $110 starting bid.
> 
> -Mike


 
  i see. who sells herleen rtc tubs?


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> i see. who sells herleen rtc tubs?


 
   
  There was an eBay seller from France that had quite a few of them, but they're long-since sold out.   Brent Jesse has the same vintage e188cc/7308 tubes, also from the Herleen factory under various labels, but they are considerably more expensive.   He's an excellent seller, though and his page on 6DJ8s and variants is a must read if you're new to tubes.
   
  Here's his 6DJ8 page:  http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm  - looks like the 60s vintage 7308 Philips/Herleen tubes are $350/pair.


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> A few months ago, I started buying up some oddball/alternate tubes on eBay, tubes that work well in the Lyr but don't seem to get into the mainstream discussion here.  Many of them are built in the same Blackburn, Herleen and Munich factories, with the same materials, as the super expensive glass that gets all of the press, but at much lower prices.  I have found some stuff that sounds every bit as good as the expensive glass I own, along with others that while not in that absolute top tier, still sound very good to excellent.  I've got a box of mid 60s through 1970 Bugle Boys and OGs now that I need to go through as well, probably 20-25 pairs of those.  That led to buying a Maxi Preamp tube tester/matcher, and now I'm sitting on an inventory of over 750 tubes, finally getting close to start selling some of them.
> 
> -Mike


 
  you acquired 750 tubes in a few months !!  now that makes me feel much better with 5 x pair in 2 weeks
   
  So out of all that oddball stuff what unknown gems did you discover that you could let us know about


----------



## jmsaxon69

nightflight said:


> Watch out for a possible roaring tube habit.  I must have around $1K in tubes. _Stupid Lyr._ :rolleyes:
> 
> I think I'm all done for a while, unless some super rare items come my way for cheap.




I am a tweak too and I love audio gear, longtime audiophile, in the business actually. But let me ask you this, if you take the worst pair of tubes you have and listen to them for a few days then put in the best set you have, do you hear a $1000 difference?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> There was an eBay seller from France that had quite a few of them, but they're long-since sold out.   Brent Jesse has the same vintage e188cc/7308 tubes, also from the Herleen factory under various labels, but they are considerably more expensive.   He's an excellent seller, though and his page on 6DJ8s and variants is a must read if you're new to tubes.
> 
> Here's his 6DJ8 page:  http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm  - looks like the 60s vintage 7308 Philips/Herleen tubes are $350/pair.


 
  I paid $175 a pair for these.
  The white box, dimple getter, Mullard Mitcham's are not even close.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> There was an eBay seller from France that had quite a few of them, but they're long-since sold out.   Brent Jesse has the same vintage e188cc/7308 tubes, also from the Herleen factory under various labels, but they are considerably more expensive.   He's an excellent seller, though and his page on 6DJ8s and variants is a must read if you're new to tubes.
> 
> Here's his 6DJ8 page:  http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm  - looks like the 60s vintage 7308 Philips/Herleen tubes are $350/pair.


 
  you mean this one? since someone talked about the rtc it has been available ever since nobody has touched it
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7441-RTC-MORE-AVAILABLE-/121103171111?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c324fbe27
   
  he also sells the mullards at the same price
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-8306-RTC-MULLARD-MORE-AVAILABLE-/111063114355?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19dbe0a273
  , which means, if they such way more, then these green ones are a steal even at that price,  albeit others selling the whites at half the price
   
  but it's still a 200 dollar pair, which means they need to sound that good to be worth it---telefunkens can be aquired that much


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> you mean this one? since someone talked about the rtc it has been available ever since nobody has touched it
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-NEW-TUBE-E188CC-7441-RTC-MORE-AVAILABLE-/121103171111?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c324fbe27
> 
> ...


 
  IMO
  You don't want either.  They are 1970's non-O getter.  Including the green model.
  Just because they are "green" doesn't mean they are the best 1960's RTC's.
  Let me add that I use LCD2 Rev2 cans.
   
  The reason they are available is they are'nt the good ones.


----------



## Sanlitun

I just got four Voskhod 6N23P that I ordered a while back for $5 each. I'm actually pretty happy about this as the listing didn't specify if they were Voskhod or Reflector.

Two of the tubes are with the silver getter stand, an 80 and 82, one is an 81 with a grey getter stand and the last is a 1973 with a wire getter stand. I've never seen one of these from prior to 1975 so this is pretty interesting.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> IMO
> You don't want either.  They are 1970's non-O getter.  Including the green model.
> Just because they are "green" doesn't mean they are the best 1960's RTC's.
> Let me add that I use LCD2 Rev2 cans.
> ...


 
  yeah i figure. How do you know what's good and what's not


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> yeah i figure. How do you know what's good and what's not


 
  I went into great detail in a PM


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> yeah i figure. How do you know what's good and what's not


 
   
  I would not say those Mullard RTCs are bad.   They just don't seem to play well with LCD-2s.   As I mentioned before, people with HD650s have raved about how great they are.
   
  You learn what's good and what's not by reading, researching, but ultimately by trying in your own system with your own ears.   The sound of a particular tube may be great to you, horrible to someone else.  Every component in the chain of gear you're playing through can and will affect the sound and with the Lyr, tubes are a big part of that chain.   You might love the sound of a certain pair, but then plug-in some different cans and find you suddenly don't like them anymore.  That can get very expensive, very fast.
   
  Personally, I think it makes more sense to work your way through different tubes rather than dropping the budget on super expensive glass out of the box.   I've heard lots of people start off saying they want to buy the "best" tubes and that will be it - yet  almost every single one of them still ends up buying/rolling others.  Let's face it, tube-rolling is fun in this amp.   It plays well with a wide variety of 6DJ8, equivalent and similar tubes, many of which are readily available, and it only requires one pair at a time for what can be drastic differences in sound.   Along the way you can learn quite a bit about how to ID tubes, read date codes, spot fakes, etc.  Again, taking that path is just my own personal opinion.
   
  There's also a wealth of information in this thread if you take the time to sift through it.
   
  Anyways, enough late night rambling for now... the most important things are that it's fun and enjoyable.
   
     -Mike


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> you acquired 750 tubes in a few months !!  now that makes me feel much better with 5 x pair in 2 weeks
> 
> So out of all that oddball stuff what unknown gems did you discover that you could let us know about


 
   
  Well, there are a lot of them that sound very good.   However, at the moment I'm listening to some 1959 d-getter ecc189s made in Herleen.  Basically a 6DJ8 with variable Mu, they happen to work very well in the Lyr.   Same factory, same workers, same metallurgy / chemistry as other more popular/expensive tubes..  I had to buy three of them to get a good matched pair, which cost me around $45 in total... I got lucky with these and found singles from different sellers that had date codes within a couple of months of each other.   I think they sound every bit as good as their 6DJ8 cousins, if not better.   Airy/open highs, beautiful smooth slightly warm mids,  and clean non-bloated bass.   They're also very quiet, with little-to-no microphonics.   They've found their way quickly into the "nope, not for sale ever" stash.   The same vintage 6DJ8s from the same factory go for $175+ per pair from a very reputable seller.  
   
     -Mike


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> I would not say those Mullard RTCs are bad.   They just don't seem to play well with LCD-2s.   As I mentioned before, people with HD650s have raved about how great they are.
> 
> You learn what's good and what's not by reading, researching, but ultimately by trying in your own system with your own ears.   The sound of a particular tube may be great to you, horrible to someone else.  Every component in the chain of gear you're playing through can and will affect the sound and with the Lyr, tubes are a big part of that chain.   You might love the sound of a certain pair, but then plug-in some different cans and find you suddenly don't like them anymore.  That can get very expensive, very fast.
> 
> ...


 
  @R_Scott_Ireland likes the Mullard RTC's because he bought mine.  Can't remember his pairing.
  He also like the mid 60's green labels.
   
  That said.... The sellers are trying to pass the white box Mullard RTC's off as the same as the green labels and they are charging way too much.  They are not the same.  No way 70's glass should cost over.... heck  $125 ish.
   
  Olga "frau_illa" (eBay I think) had quite a few Mullard RTC's at a reasonable price.  There was a huge flood of these 60 days ago.. or so.
   
  For the green label, mid 60's, be patient.  Some NOS should surface for, I'll guess $180 to  $225.


----------



## sceleratus

Some day I will try the Rockets.  
  I see all the posts but it's like I have a mental block figuring out what to order.
  I've had a lot on my plate with the 300B.   I suspect they will love the Russian glass.
  Soon.  Then I'll post my penny.


----------



## Miracles

Alright, I've had my orange globes for a few days now. I have listened to them for about 35 hours now. Compared to the stock GE tubes that came with the Lyr. When I first upgraded to the HD650's from other "lower tier" headphones, I was able to hear things I couldn't hear before. With the orange globes, those things that I couldn't hear before, is much easier to hear. In addition I found the details and soundstage to be a bit more clear, and the bass to be much better. Awesome tubes! Will stick with them until they run out of juice.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Thanks for the pics!  So I guess somewhere in 1971 they went to a single post getter/shield.  Very interesting.  Yes they do look like the '67 Reflektors I found - dimbled getter posts as well.
> 
> 
> Here a cool photo - "I like my flying saucers right side up"!


 
I like mine inverted.
   
   

   
  EDIT:
   
  If everything goes as planned. One week from Monday I will be selling.
  1) Bifrost UBER. Toslink only  9 months old.   EDIT:  Keeping this.
  2) Bifrost non-uber Toslink Only several hours of use
  3) Lyr GE tubes. 9 months old. 10 hours on tubes
  4) Audeze LCD2 Rev 1,  Rosewood with travel case.  Original cord and 3M Q-cable
   
  I have not figured out the asking price.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I like mine inverted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  and the Lyr is kept?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





miracles said:


> Alright, I've had my orange globes for a few days now. I have listened to them for about 35 hours now. Compared to the stock GE tubes that came with the Lyr. When I first upgraded to the HD650's from other "lower tier" headphones, I was able to hear things I couldn't hear before. With the orange globes, those things that I couldn't hear before, is much easier to hear. In addition I found the details and soundstage to be a bit more clear, and the bass to be much better. Awesome tubes! Will stick with them until they run out of juice.


 
  could you link the original post of which oranges specifically you bought?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> and the Lyr is kept?


 
  Nope.   The Lyr will be liquidated along with one Bifrost.  I will order a Gungnir.
  BUT you aren't rid of me because the 300B amp uses ECC88 style glass too.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Fortunately when I find something that sounds good to me I will have the restraint to stop! I know what I like and I realize chasing the last couple percent of "perfect sound"  can be a costly and frustrating affair.  Like when I stuck those Reflektor 6N23P in my X-Can v2, sounded better than stock and nothing sounded bad, so DONE!


 
   
  No No No!  That's not how its done.
   
  You have to quest find the ultimate for your ear and agonize endlessly about if its 'just right' or not.  Comparing and contrasting until the end of your days. Money is no object. The street is a fine place to live so long as you have your gear and an outlet.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> I am a tweak too and I love audio gear, longtime audiophile, in the business actually. But let me ask you this, if you take the worst pair of tubes you have and listen to them for a few days then put in the best set you have, do you hear a $1000 difference?


 
   
  That depends on a lot of things. But maybe. But I value great audio unlike most people around me. But quite a few 'get it' in this thread. So its all in perspective. Meh. I tend to buy things that IMHO demonstrate quality. I like nice things. Possibly can't afford them, but that is besides the point. 
   
  Other gear I like is nice bicycles, nice sunglasses (I abhor sunlight).  However, I don't care about how my car looks or performs. So long as it can get that old rusty horse to work, I'm good.
   
  Its all about what you like I suppose.


----------



## GrindingThud

nightflight said:


> No No No!  That's not how its done.
> 
> You have to quest find the ultimate for your ear and agonize endlessly about if its 'just right' or not.  Comparing and contrasting until the end of your days. Money is no object. The street is a fine place to live so long as you have your gear and an outlet.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I like mine inverted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Beautiful!  I bet it sounds amazing!!
   
  Edit
   
  Love those 300b tubes I once had a Airtight 300b - no headphone jack unfortunately - a work of art otherwise!


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> @R_Scott_Ireland likes the Mullard RTC's because he bought mine.  Can't remember his pairing.
> He also like the mid 60's green labels.
> 
> That said.... The sellers are trying to pass the white box Mullard RTC's off as the same as the green labels and they are charging way too much.  They are not the same.  No way 70's glass should cost over.... heck  $125 ish.
> ...


 
   
  There are some sellers outside of eBay charging $300/pr for the same RTC Mullards, way too expensive, IMO.
   
  I think you're right on with price... $125-$150/pr is reasonable for these, especially if they happen to pair up well with the cans or speakers being used.


----------



## mhamel

Nice!   Looking great!  What are you planning for casework?
   
  Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I like mine inverted.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





miracles said:


> Alright, I've had my orange globes for a few days now. I have listened to them for about 35 hours now. Compared to the stock GE tubes that came with the Lyr. When I first upgraded to the HD650's from other "lower tier" headphones, I was able to hear things I couldn't hear before. With the orange globes, those things that I couldn't hear before, is much easier to hear. In addition I found the details and soundstage to be a bit more clear, and the bass to be much better. Awesome tubes! Will stick with them until they run out of juice.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Beautiful!  I bet it sounds amazing!!
> 
> Edit
> 
> Love those 300b tubes I once had a Airtight 300b - no headphone jack unfortunately - a work of art otherwise!


 
   
   
   
  Sha...weet !


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Nice!   Looking great!  What are you planning for casework?


 
   
   
Figured maple sides and walnut  posts with a silicon bronze top and rear panel.
It should (better) be ready monday, in time for next saturday's L.A. meet.
   
Here is my Build Thread.
Lots of pictures.


----------



## Miracles

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> could you link the original post of which oranges specifically you bought?


 
  Sure. I got em' from this guy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1960s-70s-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-NOS-/221229410098?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:CA:3160 
   
  One of you actually posted this link here, and I was lurking around for a matched pair of tubes. Was able to put in my order when there was 4 available. Forgot who it was that posted this link, but whoever it was, cheers.


----------



## tuna47

I got them also I have orange globe A frames love them wanted to try the dimpled cant wait 
Crazy hobby


----------



## Sanlitun

So my new Upscale Telefunkens seem to have an echo problem when they get hot. Because of this and the badly bent pins I am asking for a return or if they don't have tubes without the u2108604f serial a credit to get another type.

Anyone have any experiences with their service?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> So my new Upscale Telefunkens seem to have an echo problem when they get hot. Because of this and the badly bent pins I am asking for a return or if they don't have tubes without the u2108604f serial a credit to get another type.
> 
> Anyone have any experiences with their service?


 
  mine don't have that problem. albeit the bent pins and GOLD scratched off, I really don't care enough to return them. If they can accept a part refund request that would be nice..how do you plan to contact them through?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





miracles said:


> Sure. I got em' from this guy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1960s-70s-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-NOS-/221229410098?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:CA:3160
> 
> One of you actually posted this link here, and I was lurking around for a matched pair of tubes. Was able to put in my order when there was 4 available. Forgot who it was that posted this link, but whoever it was, cheers.


 
  O getters huh..I bought three pairs of A frames from him..


----------



## Sanlitun

overwerk said:


> mine don't have that problem. albeit the bent pins and GOLD scratched off, I really don't care enough to return them. If they can accept a part refund request that would be nice..how do you plan to contact them through?




Through the message system in their web site. I guess if I don't get a response in a few days I may call them.


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Through the message system in their web site. I guess if I don't get a response in a few days I may call them.


 
  i messaged them 5 days ago with a shipping query as i was interested in buying those same tele's. Heard nothing so far. !


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Sha...weet !


 

 The little knob by the 300b tube adjusted the damping factor from 0dB, 4dB, 6dB.  I believe through the use of feedback (I believe global).  Does the design of your amp use feedback - it may not be necessary as a headphone amp.  The ATM-300b sounded best with 0dB.


----------



## mhamel

Very nice, I really like the design and case plans.
   
  I haven't had a ton of time for DIY lately, but I've been leaning towards building a balanced Aikido linestage.
   
    -Mike
   
   
  Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Figured maple sides and walnut  posts with a silicon bronze top and rear panel.
> It should (better) be ready monday, in time for next saturday's L.A. meet.
> 
> Here is my Build Thread.
> Lots of pictures.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sceleratus said:


> Figured maple sides and walnut  posts with a silicon bronze top and rear panel.
> It should (better) be ready monday, in time for next saturday's L.A. meet.
> 
> Here is my Build Thread.
> Lots of pictures.




Beautiful !! Well done!


----------



## rb2013

The Siemens PCC88 gray shields came in from Munich.
   
  Dropped them in the Lyr for a quick listen.  Nice midrange - very smooth.  BUT were did the detail go!!  Like a thick veil over the music - almost muffled compared to the Voskhod Rockets.  The sound stage collapsed as well!  Maybe the lack of detail is somewhat responsible.
   
  Put in the new '78 silver Rockets that just arrived - Whoa! What a difference.  Back came the detail and the sound stage doubled.
   
  I noticed the structure of these Siemens PCC88 gray shields are identical to the S&H CCa grays.  Certainly don't sound the same.
   
  I'll give them a 48 hour burn-in and if they don't improve dramatically - off to Ebay they go.
   
  Siemens CCa Gray Shield

  Siemens PCC88 Gray Shield


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Today I listened to a pair of 1960's Telefunken E88CC tubes that I just received . Listened with the Lyr w/Bifrost-Uber stack, and both HD800 and LCD-3 headphones.

With the HD800 these tubes were crystal clear and precise in all frequencies. The soundstage was very wide and moderately deep. The first impression is that the bass is a little light, however, I believe that these tubes come closest (among the tubes I've heard) to delivering what is actually in the recording with no coloration. The bass is actually there when the recording delivers it. Mids and highs are so clear that they sound ethereal (when they are supposed to sound that way, as in certain passages in Mahler 8). Extremely dense and fast passages (Mahler 8) are rendered with awesome precision. My personal rating - 9.5/10, which puts them in my Top 5, probably #3 or #4.

With the LCD-3, chamber music and medium-sized baroque ensembles sounded excellent, with a little added warmth and smoothness when compared to the Senn's. However, with heavily orchestrated symphonic music (Mahler 8 - it doesn't get more heavily orchestrated than this), the LCD's sounded congested and just could not deliver enough separation and detail to satisfactorily render very dense passages (admittedly a very difficult task with Mahler 8, although the HD800's were superb). My personal rating - chamber/small to medium ensemble 8.5/10. Orchestral 6/10.

As an interesting aside, I think that the Telefunkens do not sound "tubey", which I guess is another way of saying that they seem to have no coloration. The reason I did not give them a 10/10 in my personal ranking system is that my highest ranked tubes (Amperex pinched waists; S&H CCa) have a special "something" in their presentations that makes them sound amazing to me. I can't quite define it, but I can hear and feel it. Call it "color" or "rendition" or whatever, but it is special, and frankly, for me, finding it is the whole reason to roll tubes.

In summary, the Telefunkens are top-class with HD800's if you want accuracy and detail. They are not for bassheads, and I can't speak to how they sound with genres of music other than classical.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Very nice, I really like the design and case plans.
> 
> I haven't had a ton of time for DIY lately, but I've been leaning towards building a balanced Aikido linestage.
> 
> -Mike


 
  Thanks for the kind words guys.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now remember.... I'm an idiot that knows how to solder.
  The circuit is designed by Tom Christensen.  He's a damn genius.  The answer to all questions is, "I'll ask Tom"
   
  RB:  Feedback... I can bias the 300B's
  Mike:  Aikido linestage.   I will convert the inputs from RCA to balanced XLR and order a Gungnir.  The driver board has a 3 pos blocks for the input source.  Right now the soldering iron is put away until after the LA meet.
   
  This is the first use of Tom's design as a headphone amp and my first DIY.  It is designed as an 8 ohm speaker amp.  The OPT's were swapped to support my 60 ohm LCD2's.  As you know with headphones everything is under the microscope.  It's a work in progress.   My boy has some warts, but It's a lot of fun.  The amp has an exceptional voice and powerful, detailed bass.
   
I won't highjack the thread further other than an occasional mention of how a ECC88 variant (Rockets) sound in my boy.  I hope nobody minds.


----------



## gmahler2u

Man I was away...and I see Voskhod fest?  What's up with glass?  I ordered the voskhod 6n23p glass but I see I ordered the wrong one 6n1p.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Man I was away...and I see Voskhod fest?  What's up with glass?  I ordered the voskhod 6n23p glass but I see I ordered the wrong one 6n1p.


 

 Can you return them...my experience with the 6n1p Voskhods and Reflecktors wasn't very good.


----------



## OldSkool

Got a chance to spend a few hours today with a set of cryo'd National (Matsu) 7DJ8/PCC88 valves that I snagged from Billerb1. Let me also say that Bill is a great guy, put him on the "good seller" list. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Bill had mentioned that these 7.3 volt Matsu's already had about 50 hours on them, so I'm posting my impressions assuming that these valves had enough burn-in to allow me to form an accurate opinion.
   
  Let's cut to the chase...I heard nice detail, solid bass, smooth mids, and a very decent treble that wasn't overly extended. FWIW, I prefer valves that have a bit of "sparkle" on the top, but these Matsu's were more laid-back...much like a "Mullard Lite"...which makes sense as National bought their tooling from Mullard.
   
  Maybe a better comparison would be to say these Matsu PCC88's are like the Honda Accord of valves. They don't do anything badly and everything pretty well...but nothing exceptional. Overall, a nice solid choice that can certainly help tame a bright system, IMO.
   
  As always, YMMV.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Got a chance to spend a few hours today with a set of cryo'd National (Matsu) 7DJ8/PCC88 valves that I snagged from Billerb1. Let me also say that Bill is a great guy, put him on the "good seller" list.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  i got my pair for the original price rated 11k scores, you got yours 50 hours used out of maybe 5k total, for half off almost, and yours are 15k scores..not that i know what scores are for, but i assume it has relation to quality or hours left?
   
  either way it was ME who was supposed to buy them, but I was asking how to pay him and he got impatient while I was taking a nap and sold it off
   
  you can tell how pissed i was when i realized i bought the worse pair for more money, and when i intended to grab the better deal, it's taken from me again


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Can you return them...my experience with the 6n1p Voskhods and Reflecktors wasn't very good.


 

 It's too late to return it.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> It's too late to return it.


 

 Sorry to hear...well I have an extra pair of 1980 Silvers Voskhods available for $20 plus $5 shipping.  Matched and tested on my Sencor tester if you want to give them a try.  Just PM me if interested.


----------



## tuna47

1980 silvers are worth the price my 2nd favorite after orange globe A frames I would grab them


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I like mine inverted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Your system is looking beautiful buddy.   Is the custom amp single ended or are you doing push/pull / ultralinear?   I'm running the SLI-80 with KT120 in triode mode and I can't really tell the difference between my friend's Sophia Royal Princess 300B vs. Tung-Sol KT120s.


----------



## rb2013

My Ebay seller - only sent me one Voskhod Rocket 1972 grey.  So I'm looking for another for purchase or trade.
   
  It has a rather unique getter post - almost a single 'wire' as opposed to the flat plate on the '73s on.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Your system is looking beautiful buddy.   Is the custom amp single ended or are you doing push/pull / ultralinear?   I'm running the SLI-80 with KT120 in triode mode and I can't really tell the difference between my friend's Sophia Royal Princess 300B vs. Tung-Sol KT120s.


 
   
  I said I wouldn't hijack the thread........but it would be rude ignore a question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It's a single ended design.  I have JJ 300B's but I'm looking at the Emission Labs offering.  I really like my Valvo 1958 PCC88's in it.
  I finished some scrap pieces of wood for the enclosure.   Les Paul style Figured Maple and walnut...
   
   

   
  oops


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Sorry to hear...well I have an extra pair of 1980 Silvers Voskhods available for $20 plus $5 shipping.  Matched and tested on my Sencor tester if you want to give them a try.  Just PM me if interested.


 

 Yes, I ordered it couple of days ago.


----------



## gmahler2u

I ordered from Headphoneus Ebay.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> My Ebay seller - only sent me one Voskhod Rocket 1972 grey.  So I'm looking for another for purchase or trade.
> 
> It has a rather unique getter post - almost a single 'wire' as opposed to the flat plate on the '73s on.


 
   
  Notice the plates are fully closed too vs the open plates of the straight getters, can see the triodes in those.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I ordered from Headphoneus Ebay.


 

 OK good luck~


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Notice the plates are fully closed too vs the open plates of the straight getters, can see the triodes in those.


 

 Yes, I have not heard them so I'm curious.  They do resemble some early Reflektor variants, so not expecting much.. But who knows


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I said I wouldn't hijack the thread........but it would be rude ignore a question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Looks great!


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Your system is looking beautiful buddy.   Is the custom amp single ended or are you doing push/pull / ultralinear?   I'm running the SLI-80 with KT120 in triode mode and I can't really tell the difference between my friend's Sophia Royal Princess 300B vs. Tung-Sol KT120s.


 
   
  And not even tube related, but does anyone have any idea how this beast might stack up against a fully balanced B22?


----------



## Sanlitun

tuna47 said:


> 1980 silvers are worth the price my 2nd favorite after orange globe A frames I would grab them




I got a lucky pair of these last week in a bulk 6N23P buy. The thing about these tubes is they often have a spectacular treble clarity that you don't often hear in the Western tubes. 

I received my Upscale Telefunken and then two days later some $5 6N23P and it's the Rockets that are in my rig now. There's a lesson to be learned there somewhere, if only I could figure it out.


----------



## sceleratus

nightflight said:


> And not even tube related, but does anyone have any idea how this beast might stack up against a fully balanced B22?



Perhaps someone at the LA meet will be able to answer that. It's also difficult since its the first and only implementation of Tom's amp for HP's. Serial number 1
It will be fully balanced after the meet when I re-terminate the source jacks and order a Gungnir. 
The HPs are balanced.

EDIT:
Just looked up B22. Tyll Hertsens wrote a B22 review. He'll be at the LA meet, perhaps he'll audition it.


----------



## sceleratus

I was given a set of Russian 6H1N-EB tubes.
 Not 6H23N
 They have the Novosibirsk pentagram logo.
 I presume they are 1973
 In Blue ink it has "C1K"
  
 Will they work?  Worth keeping?


----------



## GrindingThud

They will work, they should be super quiet. Tend to have a narrow image.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> I got a lucky pair of these last week in a bulk 6N23P buy. The thing about these tubes is they often have a spectacular treble clarity that you don't often hear in the Western tubes.
> 
> I received my Upscale Telefunken and then two days later some $5 6N23P and it's the Rockets that are in my rig now. There's a lesson to be learned there somewhere, if only I could figure it out.


 

 +1 They won't be $5 for long!  Which ones did you get?  Totally agree on the treble clarity - detail galore!  The veil has been lifted - no going back.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I was given a set of Russian 6H1N-EB tubes.
> Not 6H23N
> They have the Novosibirsk pentagram logo.
> I presume they are 1973
> ...


 

 With Russian tubes n and h are almost interchangeable, so a 6n1p is equiv to a 6h1p.  The ev was an add-on code - mostly for Reflektors I believe.  They should work but unfortunately the 6n(h)1p is an inferior tube, sound quality wise, as compared to even the 6n23p Reflektors.  I wouldn't even bother with them - unless you get a finger burning itch to swap tubes.
   
  They have the inverted saucer getters like the early Reflektors with the double getter posts.  Except the posts are wire instead of plates.
   
  The 1970's Voskhod Rockets - wow a whole other class - in fact a whole other school.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> With Russian tubes n and h are almost interchangeable, so a 6n1p is equiv to a 6h1p.  The ev was an add-on code - mostly for Reflektors I believe.  They should work but unfortunately the 6n(h)1p is an inferior tube, sound quality wise, as compared to even the 6n23p Reflektors.  I wouldn't even bother with them - unless you get a finger burning itch to swap tubes.
> 
> They have the inverted saucer getters like the early Reflektors with the double getter posts.  Except the posts are wire instead of plates.
> 
> The 1970's Voskhod Rockets - wow a whole other class - in fact a whole other school.


 
  That's exactly what I wanted to hear.
  A definitive "I wouldn't bother"
  Life's too short to listen through bad glass.
   
  Gone.
  Thanks


----------



## rb2013

I have three extra pairs of the 1979 Voskhod silver shields matched and tested if anyone is interested.  $30/pr + $5 shipping.  (These Russian dealers have been charging $14 for shipping alone! Besides taking 3-4 weeks).
  And two prs of the 1967 Reflectors for $25/pr + $5 shipping.
   
  I wanted to give my fellow Lyrians a chance to buy them before I list on the BB to the rest of the community.  Just PM me.
   
  I have 1980s gray shields for $10/pr + $5 shipping (what you typically get on E-bay) but I really recommend the above - they are worth the extra money.
   
  This Lyr amp is a wonderful instrument to hear the differences in these tubes - well I guess that's why we are all here.
   
  Happy listening!


----------



## asgiov

My Lyr came with the GE 6BZ7 tubes.
They are too bright for me on my Audeze LCD-2 Rev.2.... I'm honestly not liking it very much... it makes it too hard to relax after I get home. 
I just ordered some of the stock JJ tubes from Schiit to see how it goes. 

Wondering if anyone else has any recommendation for getting a slightly more layed back sound.


----------



## tuna47

Much better with orange globes mellow great sound and RB2013 has some nice Russian tubes that are at a good price. He also is nice to deal with


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





asgiov said:


> My Lyr came with the GE 6BZ7 tubes.
> They are too bright for me on my Audeze LCD-2 Rev.2.... I'm honestly not liking it very much... it makes it too hard to relax after I get home.
> I just ordered some of the stock JJ tubes from Schiit to see how it goes.
> 
> Wondering if anyone else has any recommendation for getting a slightly more layed back sound.


 

 I'd recommend the Voshkod Rockets 1980 grays shields - they have a layed back sound and yet good detail.  And an amazing bargain at $10/pr + $5 shipping for a matched tested pr.
   
  Not much risk here at this price - should be much better then the new production JJs.
   
  For an even more detailed sound, wider dynamics and wider sound stage - the 1979 Silver Shield Voshkods - $30/pr + $5 shipping.  Just PM me.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Much better with orange globes mellow great sound and RB2013 has some nice Russian tubes that are at a good price. He also is nice to deal with


 

 Thanks!


----------



## billerb1

What rb2013 said.  I got the  80 Voshkod Rockets from him and there's no better bang for the buck out there with your Lyr.  I'd go ahead and step up to the 79's and really see
  what that Lyr can do for a great price.
  That being said, I would not characterize the Voshkod's as a "warm" tube...if that's what you're really looking for.  To me the Voshkods have a very up-front presentation with great detail across the full spectrum...including the treble.  I'm not sure that you might not label that treble detail as "bright".  If you want "warm" or "smooth" strictly,  you may want to check out some different priced Mullards.  Can't speak to the Orange Globes...don't own any.
  Good luck.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> What rb2013 said.  I got the  80 Voshkod Rockets from him and there's no better bang for the buck out there with your Lyr.  I'd go ahead and step up to the 79's and really see
> what that Lyr can do for a great price.
> That being said, I would not characterize the Voshkod's as a "warm" tube...if that's what you're really looking for.  To me the Voshkods have a very up-front presentation with great detail across the full spectrum...including the treble.  I'm not sure that you might not label that treble detail as "bright".  If you want "warm" or "smooth" strictly,  you may want to check out some different priced Mullards.  Can't speak to the Orange Globes...don't own any.
> Good luck.


 

 Well said!


----------



## Overwerk

i have to say my favorite tubes are the three a frame oranges. That said my voshods from pooters(headphoneus) has not arrived yet
   
  Anyone knows any other seller selling legit GOOD voshods?(voskods? exactly what IS their name?)


----------



## teb1013

overwerk said:


> i have to say my favorite tubes are the three a frame oranges. That said my voshods from pooters(headphoneus) has not arrived yet
> 
> Anyone knows any other seller selling legit GOOD voshods?(voskods? exactly what IS their name?)




It's Voskhod, the name of the first multi-person spacecraft launched by the Soviets in 1964 and 1965. I got mine from these people http://www.boiaudioworks.com/6dj8 although the tubes in question are listed as sold out on this page. The are not NOS, however. Here is another source: http://www.tubes-store.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=18 . I have gotten NOS tubes (the Amperex 7308, which I love but not Voskhods) from this site http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922/.


----------



## rb2013

I'm sold out of the  6n23p Voskhod '79 Silver Shield - matched sections and tubes...thanks for the overwhelming response!  They are shipping today from Seattle - should have them in a couple of days.
   
  The unbelievable - Supreme '75 Gray Shields arrived today (4 weeks from Russia) exact matched date codes and excellent matching across sections and tubes - they are all spoken for as well.  Some folks had reserved them.   Thanks again!
   
  I've been scouring all the Russian dealers for more of these vintage early to mid 70's 6n23p V-Rs - there are none to be found.  If I manage to uncover a few more prs.  You guys will see them first, before I list them on the BB or Ebay.
   
  I'm still waiting for the '73s to arrive to finish up my mega review of all the vintage Voskhods vs the Euros & Americans.
  It should be fun!
   
  I have been listening for hours each night - even during burn-in - and the level of detail on these with the HD800/Black Dragons is profound.   Every 1970s 6n23p Voskhod Rocket I have heard is absolutely dead quite - the noise floor on these is only from the recording studio.  Newer recordings are ink black, older ones you can clearly hear the Ampex tape hiss.  That's how revealing these V-Rs are.
   
  One note - because these '75s are so sweet in sound, never harsh at all, I have been experimenting with added volume.  On the Lyr I can turn up the level another 10% without any stridency or sibilance - this added volume brings out even more detail and expands the sound stage as well.  The sound is so encompassing on some recordings it's almost surround sound I can hear reflected sound from behind me!  - spooky good!
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> I'm sold out of the  6n23p Voskhod '79 Silver Shield - matched sections and tubes...thanks for the overwhelming response!  They are shipping today from Seattle - should have them in a couple of days.
> 
> The unbelievable - Supreme '75 Gray Shields arrived today (4 weeks from Russia) exact matched date codes and excellent matching across sections and tubes - they are all spoken for as well.  Some folks had reserved them.   Thanks again!
> 
> ...


 
  exactly where did you mention what you had and which one to choose?-.-


----------



## christophhh

They sound so good...crying


----------



## asgiov

Thanks a lot for the help guys. 
I just got some Amperex Orange Globe tubes from another user here on Head-Fi. He sent me two pairs for $45. 

They are a huge improvement in terms of the sibilance and brightness I was having issues with before, when compared to the GE tubes. I'm really loving the sound on my Audeze LCD-2.2s now.


----------



## gmahler2u

man...I'm in LA but I'm heading back to Kansas today, I'm also sad that missing out headphone guys meeting this Saturday...
   





   
  hope you guys have fun there!


----------



## sceleratus

I just sold my Lyr.  It's on it's way to FedEx....  Kinda sad.  I have a void to fill.


----------



## billerb1

THERE IS NO GOD !!!!!!!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> exactly where did you mention what you had and which one to choose?-.-


 

 Well right here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8550#post_9617034
   
  and one page back  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8565#post_9619597.
   
  I still have the 1980s available.  Silver shield matching date codes.  Tested on my Sencor TC-162 tester for no shorts, passed gas emissions, and excellent matched output (like NOS).
   
   
  Quote: 





> Sorry to hear...well I have an extra pair of 1980 Silvers Voskhods available for $20 plus $5 shipping.  Matched and tested on my Sencor tester if you want to give them a try.  Just PM me if interested.


 
  These are way better then the later 1980s gray shields that are being sold on Ebay and the Russian Dealers.  Beside it sucks having to wait 3 weeks for shipping and the shipping is more expensive.
   
  These are a good introduction to the Voskhod sound - for just a few bucks.  PM me if interested.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





christophhh said:


> They sound so good...crying


 

 You should hear the '75 Grays and Silvers!  They get a hold of you and sweep you away.  '74s are good, so are the '76, '77 and '78s.  The '75s are El-Supremo so far.
   
  But I have the '73s coming - different construction - with the wire getter.  Not expecting them to unseat the Czar '75s.
   
  Glad more folks are getting tuned into these...enjoy!


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





asgiov said:


> Thanks a lot for the help guys.
> I just got some Amperex Orange Globe tubes from another user here on Head-Fi. He sent me two pairs for $45.
> 
> They are a huge improvement in terms of the sibilance and brightness I was having issues with before, when compared to the GE tubes. I'm really loving the sound on my Audeze LCD-2.2s now.


 
  omg.. 2 pairs for 44 bucks? and i am listening to x1 while you listen to lcd 2...
   
  too jeolous,.,.not healthy,, must..do yoga


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Well right here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8550#post_9617034
> 
> and one page back  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8565#post_9619597.
> 
> ...


 
  ok, the 80s silver, they on par with the ones you already sold? seems like you think they are worth 2/3? is the sound as such scaled?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> You should hear the '75 Grays and Silvers!  They get a hold of you and sweep you away.  '74s are good, so are the '76, '77 and '78s.  The '75s are El-Supremo so far.
> 
> But I have the '73s coming - different construction - with the wire getter.  Not expecting them to unseat the Czar '75s.
> 
> Glad more folks are getting tuned into these...enjoy!


 
  the...Czar....?|?? o.o


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> the...Czar....?|?? o.o


 

 I was going to write King, but stayed with the Russian theme.  Point is they are the best I've heard - I would say the '78 Silvers are pretty close.


----------



## rb2013

So here is my current ranking:
   
  All Voskhod Rockets 6n23p Kaluga factory:
   
  #1 1975 Gray Shields - Supreme detail, coupled with this magical flow or liquidity to the music...just draws you in.  I try to read while listening to my headphones.  These just make you drop the book and turn the volume up.  Sit back and enjoy the ride as they sweep you away.  Rich textured tone, deep extended tight bass...Who said the HD800 have wimpy bass!  Not with these.  Sound stage - surround sound, reflected sounds actually project behind you!  As well as wall to wall and 30 ft deep in front, with tons of air blooming from each instrument.  The effect enhanced by closing your eyes.  I did this last night...for 4 hours!  Dead quite, zero floor noise, the incredible details just project from inky blackness...you really notice this at the end of songs as they fade into this deep black silence.  The next track re-emerging, building, as you forget how high you've set the volume!  Never harsh or brittle - and here is the magic, even at higher volume levels.  Levels that would have you diving, on most other non-Super V-R tubes, to turn down as the etch becomes annoying.
  With the sweet nature of these tubes, it allows you to add this additional volume, the sound becomes enveloping.  You're really projected into a different venue.  What the high end headphone experience is all about!
  These are my new reference tubes - so I will describe the other V-Rs based on these.
   
  #2 1975 Silver Shields - these are almost a tie for first.  They actually have even more detail!  But lack a bit of the liquid flow that's so captivating on the '75 grays.
  Also have the tonal richness and sweet character.  Likewise the same bass extension and tightness.  Ditto for the sound stage as above.
   
  #3 1978 Silver Shields - Just a bit less detail then above.  Great flow, slightly smaller sound stage - but still wide and deep compared to most tubes.
   
  #4 1976 Gray Shields - A little less detail again.  Good flow - the sound stage is very good.
   
  #5 1977 Silver Shields - Very detailed, a little more analytical.  Nice harmonically rich tone - The Prince of V-Rs.
   
  #6 1974 Gray Shields - Very nice tube.  Liquid mid range, sweet tonality.  A slight reduction in the ultimate detail retrieval and sound stage width and depth. Good bass.
   
  #7 1979 Silver Shields - Amazing detail and mid-range liquidity.  This is were, what I refer to as the 'Super-Voskhods', starts.
   
  #8 1980 Silver Shields - Awesome tube - borders on greatness.  Lacks the extreme detail of the above mentioned tubes.  Also - not quite the tonal richness (would not recommend added volume with these)
   
  #9 1979 Gray Shields - With the '79s and '80s the Silver variant is better - More detailed.  That's not true after '79 - in fact the 'King' is the '75 Grays.
   
  #10 The 1981 -1989s Gray or Silver - Good tubes, won't bowl you over.  Pleasant to listen to.
   
  After that - the 1990s on - pretty pedestrian.  These and the '81-'89s are what's pretty much typical of what's available now on E-bay and through the Russian Dealers.  I hope they don't sour folks on the Voskhod magic.  
   
  This is just a mini-preview.  I'll go into more detail with pictures in my review.  I still have to hear the '73s and '72s - but the structure of these is different.  Similar to some '70s Reflecktors.  So I'm not expecting much.
   
  Happy Listening!
   
  Edit - added a picture of what I mean by Silver and Gray Shields - which is the standard convention for the Siemens CCa.  Others, like pooters refers to the plate running through the middle of the top mica as the 'shield'.  Sorry for the confusion...but I have to stay with traditional 6922 tube conventions.  All of the above evaluations are based on my identification method.  I have run across Voskhod's with silver 'grids' and gray shields, that wide or narrow tab sticking up through the middle of the tube's top mica, may not be the best determinant of the 'shield' color.
   

    As described by a Siemens CCa tube expert:
   
[size=large]"The "shield" is the "gray" or "shiny silver" plate (electrostatic shield) that is situated between [/size]
[size=large]the 2 gray dual triode plates inside a framed grid tube, such as a 6922, 6DJ8 and 7308.[/size][size=large]"[/size]


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> ok, the 80s silver, they on par with the ones you already sold? seems like you think they are worth 2/3? is the sound as such scaled?


 

 I posted a little break down on which are the best, then down the line.  I hope it helps!


----------



## asgiov

How do these "shields" compare to the orange globes? Because if they make things any "brighter" or more sibilant... can't say I would be very interested... lol
Whenever people say more "detail"... it always scares me into equating it with a "brighter" sound.


----------



## billerb1

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> So here is my current ranking:
> 
> All Voshkod Rockets 6n23p Kaluga factory:
> 
> ...


 
   
   Bravo, Maestro !!!!!!!!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





asgiov said:


> How do these "shields" compare to the orange globes? Because if they make things any "brighter" or more sibilant... can't say I would be very interested... lol
> Whenever people say more "detail"... it always scares me into equating it with a "brighter" sound.


 

 Well that's a very good point.  There is usually a trade-off to detail - a bright, brittle, edgy sound. 
   
  The magic of the these '75 Voskhods is that they always remain tonally rich, with a forgiving sweetness to them.  This allows something really special - to be able to place the volume another 10% higher then normal - with no ill consequences.  In fact more ambient details emerge.  This very low level ambient detail allows for a larger, holographic presentation.
   
  Rather then staggered cardboard cutouts arrange on the stage, the musicians are projected into a 3D sound field.  You hear not just the front wave, but the subtle reflected side and back waves.
   
  I don't have the OGs to compare against.  But some folks who have bought the '80 Silver Shields, have rated them right below the OGs.  So we'll see how the '75 Grays compare.
   
  PS One other note - there is tremendous variation between the different date code Voshkod 6n23p Rockets.  As I tried to convey in the previous post.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> Bravo, Maestro !!!!!!!!


 

 Thanks!


----------



## Rudiger

About these 197???  voskhods
  Do you think is that gray shieds or silver shields ?
  http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=12
   
  I'm still waiting for them.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> So here is my current ranking:
> 
> All Voshkod Rockets 6n23p Kaluga factory:
> 
> ...


 
  well i am the lucky owner of the only 75's grey of pooter's newest batch of voshkods sold. the pair is completed with a 76 grey


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Well that's a very good point.  There is usually a trade-off to detail - a bright, brittle, edgy sound.
> 
> The magic of the these '75 Voskhods is that they always remain tonally rich, with a forgiving sweetness to them.  This allows something really special - to be able to place the volume another 10% higher then normal - with no ill consequences.  In fact more ambient details emerge.  This very low level ambient detail allows for a larger, holographic presentation.
> 
> ...


 
  i will be doing that job for you and yall


----------



## asgiov

I just got back from an amazing journey, listening to Random Access Memories on Vinyl with the Schiit Lyr, using the Orange Globe tubes though my Audeze LCD 2.2s. 

All I can say is.... Blown away.... 

The music just came through so incredibly smooth and liquidy.... It redefined "Warmth" for me in terms of sound.... I really felt wrapped up in it... It was beautiful. 
I can't wait to listen to some more of my records later... 

I mean just wow... this is why we spend the money we do on this stuff.


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> So here is my current ranking:
> 
> All Voshkod Rockets 6n23p Kaluga factory:
> 
> ...


 
  thanks for this amazing rundown - im still waiting on my 76 grays and 78/79 silvers to arrive from pooters so cant wait to plug em in and hear for myself.  (the VK's i currently have are 8 yrs apart and mismatched i think as dont sound anything like above)
   
  So whats the likely success rate of being able to hunt down the 75's ? bearing in mind that most of us wouldnt have the connections or experience in scouring russia for them like you do


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> About these 197???  voskhods
> Do you think is that gray shieds or silver shields ?
> http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=12
> 
> I'm still waiting for them.


 

 I emailed him.  Unfortunately, the communication was not good - I guess his English is hazy.  The tube in the picture is not what he is selling (very misleading), that he confirmed!
   
  He was very vague and unresponsive when I asked him to specify exactly what he was selling.  He wouldn't...so I guess it's a case of 'Russian Roulette' as to what he'll send you.
   
  Good Luck!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> well i am the lucky owner of the only 75's grey of pooter's newest batch of voshkods sold. the pair is completed with a 76 grey


 

 Too bad they're not a matched pair.   Having such a mis-matched tube set really screws up the sound.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> thanks for this amazing rundown - im still waiting on my 76 grays and 78/79 silvers to arrive from pooters so cant wait to plug em in and hear for myself.  (the VK's i currently have are 8 yrs apart and mismatched i think as dont sound anything like above)
> 
> So whats the likely success rate of being able to hunt down the 75's ? bearing in mind that most of us wouldnt have the connections or experience in scouring russia for them like you do


 
  Thanks!
  Well on finding more '75s is not easy now, the word is getting out.  I asked pooters if he had any 1970's - all he has is 1990's for $45/pr with shipping from the UK ($15 for shipping -Och).  I hope he can find more of the '70s, I'm having a hard time doing so.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





asgiov said:


> I just got back from an amazing journey, listening to Random Access Memories on Vinyl with the Schiit Lyr, using the Orange Globe tubes though my Audeze LCD 2.2s.
> 
> All I can say is.... Blown away....
> 
> ...


 

 Source is really important.  I have a vast collection of LPs that I digitalized at ultra-high resolution (32 bit, 176K), back when I had my near SOTA analog rig.
   
  The sound from these recordings exceed regular CD quality sound by a mile - they're my favorites.
   
  Agree - a warm, unfatigued sound, with a natural tone that's hard for Redbook to match.  But a bit euphonic.
   
  I only evaluate tubes using my CD wave files - I believe they are more neutral.


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> I emailed him.  Unfortunately, the communication was not good - I guess his English is hazy.  The tube in the picture is not what he is selling (very misleading), that he confirmed!
> 
> He was very vague and unresponsive when I asked him to specify exactly what he was selling.  He wouldn't...so I guess it's a case of 'Russian Roulette' as to what he'll send you.
> 
> Good Luck!


 
   


 Thanks a lot !
   
  Hmm this does not bode well. This seller should be avoided in any case it seems.
 I'll let you all know, I would put photos of real tubes received (if they arrive one day ...)
 I hope to have a good surprise but I do not believe in father Christmas since I am an adult


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> Thanks a lot !
> 
> Hmm this does not bode well. This seller should be avoided in any case it seems.
> I'll let you all know, I would put photos of real tubes received (if they arrive one day ...)
> I hope to have a good surprise but I do not believe in father Christmas since I am an adult


 

 I don't know...maybe it's just the English thing...maybe a Vodka thing (LOL!).  I find all these Russian/Ukraine/Moldovian/Bulgarian dealers really vague on what they sell.  So I don't think it's him personally.    At least some of the dealers on E-Bay will specify exactly what they are selling.
   
  You may be pleasantly surprised.
   
  I believe folks have had a varying success with these tubes...just depending on what date code they get.


----------



## rb2013

I updated the Voskhod Rocket review post with a picture - to show folks the difference between the Silver and Gray Shields. (I alsoi corrected my spelling - I always mistype that k and h.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> thanks for this amazing rundown - im still waiting on my 76 grays and 78/79 silvers to arrive from pooters so cant wait to plug em in and hear for myself.  (the VK's i currently have are 8 yrs apart and mismatched i think as dont sound anything like above)
> 
> So whats the likely success rate of being able to hunt down the 75's ? bearing in mind that most of us wouldnt have the connections or experience in scouring russia for them like you do


 

 Do you have OGs?  Since you have matched date code pairs of the '70s Voshkods - I'd be very interested to hear your take on the comparison


----------



## eyeoftheruby

I have some 68 Amperex OGs I purchased from mercedesman a few months ago. I've never been completely satisfied with their sound, and actually prefer the stock GE tubes. Soundstage loses some depth on the GEs but the bass impact and overall balance is better to my ears. That being said I'd love to get my hands on some good 70's 6n23Ps if anyone is up for a trade. The OGs have ~20 hours on them.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





eyeoftheruby said:


> I have some 68 Amperex OGs I purchased from mercedesman a few months ago. I've never been completely satisfied with their sound, and actually prefer the stock GE tubes. Soundstage loses some depth on the GEs but the bass impact and overall balance is better to my ears. That being said I'd love to get my hands on some good 70's 6n23Ps if anyone is up for a trade. The OGs have ~20 hours on them.


 

 I have an exact date matched pr of the Voskhod 1980 Silver Shield Rockets I'd trade for them.  PM me if interested.


----------



## Sanlitun

rb2013 said:


> So here is my current ranking:
> 
> All Voskhod Rockets 6n23p Kaluga factory:




Many thanks for a great critique. In general I have found if you find a set of these from before 1983 you stand a good chance of getting great tubes.

A good pair of these tubes have treble, clarity and a realistic attack with music. I've found it to be really difficult to find the big name western tubes with these qualities and I have had to put aside my brand fascination and prejudices when trying tubes and be ready to admit the inexpensive Rockets are often better.


----------



## asgiov

rb2013 said:


> Source is really important.  I have a vast collection of LPs that I digitalized at ultra-high resolution (32 bit, 176K), back when I had my near SOTA analog rig.
> 
> The sound from these recordings exceed regular CD quality sound by a mile - they're my favorites.
> 
> ...




My analog rig is pretty modest, but I still love the way it sounds. 
It's clear that Vinyl colors the music in it's own way.... but it's easily the most relaxing way to listen to music. Gotta love it.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Thanks!
> Well on finding more '75s is not easy now, the word is getting out.  I asked pooters if he had any 1970's - all he has is 1990's for $45/pr with shipping from the UK ($15 for shipping -Och).  I hope he can find more of the '70s, I'm having a hard time doing so.


 
   
  That's not me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Mine were used and only going for £9 a pair, whatever that is in dollars, there is a guy in the UK on ebay selling NOS pairs from the 90's though.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





asgiov said:


> My analog rig is pretty modest, but I still love the way it sounds.
> It's clear that Vinyl colors the music in it's own way.... but it's easily the most relaxing way to listen to music. Gotta love it.


 
  i don't know if anyone talks about or knows about the gear Jason Statham used in one of his newer films...the one where he owns a newb wannabe


----------



## hedphonz

just got the matsu****a 6922's in today -
   
  new they sound great - good mullard bass but with more detail - treble is really smooth - 
   
  For only $20 each they are an unbelievable deal - i paid 3.5 x that for some mullards CV2492's and theres not much difference - the cv's have a more thumping bass but not the detail - i think i prefer the matsu's overall balance a bit better.
   
  For anyone new to the lyr and rolling i highly recommend them and the place i bought them from is half the price of Tubemonger
   
   
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Matsu****a-6922-E88cc-tubes-valves-NOS-/261214055161?pt=AU_Electronics_Vintage_Electronics&hash=item3cd1922af9&_uhb=1
   
  PS: for anyone with HD800's they are a fantastic match


----------



## rb2013

Sorry, pooters - my bad. Do you have any '75 Grays? PM if so. I'm listening to these by month now. Looking for the best of the best, of the best. No stone unturned!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I just sold my Lyr.  It's on it's way to FedEx....  Kinda sad.  I have a void to fill.


 

 OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!  WHY YOU DO THAT??????????


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> just got the matsu****a 6922's in today -
> 
> new they sound great - good mullard bass but with more detail - treble is really smooth -
> 
> ...


 
  only for local pick up, how many people live there wow


----------



## Zuckfun

overwerk said:


> only for local pick up, how many people live there wow


 Upscale Audio has the matsu****, for like $30 each. This is probably already known, but in case it isn't. There's probably other places to find them too. Brent Jessee is currently out of them.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Upscale Audio has the matsu****, for like $30 each. This is probably already known, but in case it isn't. There's probably other places to find them too. Brent Jessee is currently out of them.


 
  yes i bought there. i think i was the first to bring it up recently actually


----------



## sceleratus

just about to light er' up...
   

   
  .


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> just about to light er' up...
> 
> 
> 
> .


 

 she looks awesome!


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> just about to light er' up...
> 
> 
> 
> .


 
  Beautiful, congrats!


----------



## dnlee480

Hi guys so I am new to this forum but I am a member of AVforum and AVSforum.  Anyways I just started getting into hifi headphones, amps, and dacs.  I currently own Sennheiser hd800, Akg k702, Audio Technica ATH-M50 paired with a Burson Audio "Conductor" and also have a Schiit Lyr which I received today.  So I am new to all this and including tube rolling.  I am looking to upgrade the tubes and I have read prior post and seems the Telefunken E88CC 6922 or Amperex Orange Globes have been on the top of the list for best performance.  Any other suggestions?  I tried finding them on ebay and amazon and wow they are expensive especially the telefunkens and I am worried about purchasing fake tubes.  Anywhere I can purchase original at a good price?  Also, have you noticed quite of bit of noise with the Schiit Lyr?  I hear a constant buzz even when the volume is all the way down when I have it connected to the Burson Audio using the dac out. I also connect to my ps3 and I hear noise only when I turn up the volume.  Normal?  Sorry for all the questions.  Thank you guys


----------



## sceleratus

thanks


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





dnlee480 said:


> Hi guys so I am new to this forum but I am a member of AVforum and AVSforum.  Anyways I just started getting into hifi headphones, amps, and dacs.  I currently own Sennheiser hd800, Akg k702, Audio Technica ATH-M50 paired with a Burson Audio "Conductor" and also have a Schiit Lyr which I received today.  So I am new to all this and including tube rolling.  I am looking to upgrade the tubes and I have read prior post and seems the Telefunken E88CC 6922 or Amperex Orange Globes have been on the top of the list for best performance.  Any other suggestions?  I tried finding them on ebay and amazon and wow they are expensive especially the telefunkens and I am worried about purchasing fake tubes.  Anywhere I can purchase original at a good price?  Also, have you noticed quite of bit of noise with the Schiit Lyr?  I hear a constant buzz even when the volume is all the way down when I have it connected to the Burson Audio using the dac out. I also connect to my ps3 and I hear noise only when I turn up the volume.  Normal?  Sorry for all the questions.  Thank you guys


 
  if you read more carefully...it has been mentioned a lot of times upscale audio sells the best telefunkens with cryo platinum options adding the price up a bit, but if you choose not to, driver grade tubes cost as littlte as 200 bucks a pair and less, it's cca telefunkens
  ]
   
  also, voskhods cost 30 bucks a pair and people say they are amazing,  second to orange maybe, oranges can be bought for 40 bucks a pair used.


----------



## dnlee480

Sorry thanks...there is over 576 pages of post...didn't have the time to read every single post but my bad. I do appreciate the reply though. Thank you


----------



## asgiov

dnlee480 said:


> Sorry thanks...there is over 576 pages of post...didn't have the time to read every single post but my bad. I do appreciate the reply though. Thank you




You've got some really nice gear for "Just starting to get into high-fi"... lol
Anyways... I just got my Lyr and I just got a set of Orange Globes. They are wonderful if you want a warm sound.


----------



## dnlee480

Thank you...where did u purchase ur orange globes?


----------



## asgiov

dnlee480 said:


> Thank you...where did u purchase ur orange globes?



The guy who sold me his Lyr here on Head-Fi sold me two pairs for $45.


----------



## dnlee480

Nice u got a good deal!


----------



## Zuckfun

dnlee480 said:


> Nice u got a good deal!


Orange Globes can be found here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321161615486?redirect=mobile

mercedesman is a great guy to deal with. Upscale Audio's Telefunkens, probably won't find a better price than that. There's quite a few tube options, it depends on what sound you want out of your tubes- Neutrality, warmth, etc...And how much you're comfortable spending.


----------



## tuna47

Just bought a pair 1969 dimpled from him fast delivery they sound great 
Highly recommended


----------



## erikfreedom

Quote: 





dnlee480 said:


> Hi guys so I am new to this forum but I am a member of AVforum and AVSforum.  Anyways I just started getting into hifi headphones, amps, and dacs.  I currently own Sennheiser hd800, Akg k702, Audio Technica ATH-M50 paired with a Burson Audio "Conductor" and also have a Schiit Lyr which I received today.  So I am new to all this and including tube rolling.  I am looking to upgrade the tubes and I have read prior post and seems the Telefunken E88CC 6922 or Amperex Orange Globes have been on the top of the list for best performance.  Any other suggestions?  I tried finding them on ebay and amazon and wow they are expensive especially the telefunkens and I am worried about purchasing fake tubes.  Anywhere I can purchase original at a good price?  Also, have you noticed quite of bit of noise with the Schiit Lyr?  I hear a constant buzz even when the volume is all the way down when I have it connected to the Burson Audio using the dac out. I also connect to my ps3 and I hear noise only when I turn up the volume.  Normal?  Sorry for all the questions.  Thank you guys


 
   
  i recommend www.audiotubes.com
   
  brent jesse.  the guy is a tube freak and has vast knowledge on every kind of tubes. he often has in stock very scarce uber expensive tubes. prices are high but the guy is unquestionably a reference in tubes. i have bought many tubes there and was always extremely happy. if you want the best sound for the lyr it is going to cost you a lot.  i have orange globes and they d'ont sound as good as my 1956 pinched waist mullards. not by a long shot.it's not even funny! with the pinched waist mullards, my lyr sound as good or better than my 3 channel b22 to my ears. absolutely incredible sounding tubes. if you want as good sounding as the pinched waist mullards for half the price, but still expensive, i recommend 7308 mazda france large halo getter gold pins from the 60's. the pinched waist mullards cost 600 bucks a pair and the mazda tubes 325 to 350 a pair. you want the best sound, it is going to cost you. brent is currently on a tube hunting trip. he will come back on the 22th of july. c'ant wait to see if he finds more pinched waist tubes. in any case, get rid of the stock tubes as fast as you can. especially the ge tubes. they are horrid sounding tubes. and d'ont waist your time with new production 6922 tubes. none of these tubes can hold a candle to the best nos tubes. not even the e.a.t. e88cc tubes. 
   
  the real question is how much are you ready to spend on a single pair of tubes for the lyr? anyway you should email brent and ask him what you need. he is a sweetheart and will answer your every questions. if you want the best sound at affordable prices, the orange globes are the way to go. no doubt. price performance ratio is absurdly high. and as a bonus you can have many pairs.pinched waist tubes are very scarce and in fact my pinched waist tubes exibit just a tiny bit of microphonics, and one of them as a small defect. the microphonics disappear when i change them of socket on the lyr. they are by far the easiest tubes ever to remove from the lyr sockets. they are an absolute delight with the sennheiser hd 800. just plain incredible. the lyr is an inexpensive amplifier that can scale to very high level of sound quality.


----------



## dnlee480

zuckfun said:


> Orange Globes can be found here:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321161615486?redirect=mobile
> 
> mercedesman is a great guy to deal with. Upscale Audio's Telefunkens, probably won't find a better price than that. There's quite a few tube options, it depends on what sound you want out of your tubes- Neutrality, warmth, etc...And how much you're comfortable spending.




Yeah I like neutral sound but I do like a little bit of warmth, clarity, and good bass extension. Probably asking for too much. Lol. I will try to get a hold of ur guy thx


----------



## dnlee480

erikfreedom said:


> i recommend www.audiotubes.com
> 
> brent jesse.  the guy is a tube freak and has vast knowledge on every kind of tubes. he often has in stock very scarce uber expensive tubes. prices are high but the guy is unquestionably a reference in tubes. i have bought many tubes there and was always extremely happy. if you want the best sound for the lyr it is going to cost you a lot.  i have orange globes and they d'ont sound as good as my 1956 pinched waist mullards. not by a long shot.it's not even funny! with the pinched waist mullards, my lyr sound as good or better than my 3 channel b22 to my ears. absolutely incredible sounding tubes. if you want as good sounding as the pinched waist mullards for half the price, but still expensive, i recommend 7308 mazda france large halo getter gold pins from the 60's. the pinched waist mullards cost 600 bucks a pair and the mazda tubes 325 to 350 a pair. you want the best sound, it is going to cost you. brent is currently on a tube hunting trip. he will come back on the 22th of july. c'ant wait to see if he finds more pinched waist tubes. in any case, get rid of the stock tubes as fast as you can. especially the ge tubes. they are horrid sounding tubes. and d'ont waist your time with new production 6922 tubes. none of these tubes can hold a candle to the best nos tubes. not even the e.a.t. e88cc tubes.
> 
> the real question is how much are you ready to spend on a single pair of tubes for the lyr? anyway you should email brent and ask him what you need. he is a sweetheart and will answer your every questions. if you want the best sound at affordable prices, the orange globes are the way to go. no doubt. price performance ratio is absurdly high. and as a bonus you can have many pairs.pinched waist tubes are very scarce and in fact my pinched waist tubes exibit just a tiny bit of microphonics, and one of them as a small defect. the microphonics disappear when i change them of socket on the lyr. they are by far the easiest tubes ever to remove from the lyr sockets. they are an absolute delight with the sennheiser hd 800. just plain incredible. the lyr is an inexpensive amplifier that can scale to very high level of sound quality.




I never new how expensive tubes got. I do want the best performance out of lyrs. When comparing the lyr to my burson I have to say the highs don't sound as clean imo. But I probably need to break it more. Will putting higher tubes eliminate some of the noise? I heard tubes make noise. Well thank u all for your input. Not sure if I'm ready to spend 600 dollars for a tube yet but who knows. I always want the best I can get im the end. Hehehe


----------



## Zuckfun

dnlee480 said:


> Yeah I like neutral sound but I do like a little bit of warmth, clarity, and good bass extension. Probably asking for too much. Lol. I will try to get a hold of ur guy thx


 Brent Jessee (audiotubes.com) and mercedesman on ebay are two trusted and very reliable vendors. Only buy from trusted vendors. Upscale Audio is trustworthy also. Upscale's Ediswans are an amazing tube for the money, with crystal clear highs and nice bass. Or if you don't want to spend a lot, many people rave about the matsu****- Upscale carries these also. Your Lyr shouldn't make noise- it should be dead quiet. Maybe try switching the positions of the tubes and see if this eliminates the noise.


----------



## rb2013

sceleratus said:


> just about to light er' up...
> 
> 
> l
> ...




Woo...if that sounds 1/2 as good as it looks...you're gonna be in audio heaven. Nice design work!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Woo...if that sounds 1/2 as good as it looks...you're gonna be in audio heaven. Nice design work!


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





erikfreedom said:


> i recommend www.audiotubes.com
> 
> brent jesse.  the guy is a tube freak and has vast knowledge on every kind of tubes. he often has in stock very scarce uber expensive tubes. prices are high but the guy is unquestionably a reference in tubes. i have bought many tubes there and was always extremely happy. if you want the best sound for the lyr it is going to cost you a lot.  i have orange globes and they d'ont sound as good as my 1956 pinched waist mullards. not by a long shot.it's not even funny! with the pinched waist mullards, my lyr sound as good or better than my 3 channel b22 to my ears. absolutely incredible sounding tubes. if you want as good sounding as the pinched waist mullards for half the price, but still expensive, i recommend 7308 mazda france large halo getter gold pins from the 60's. the pinched waist mullards cost 600 bucks a pair and the mazda tubes 325 to 350 a pair. you want the best sound, it is going to cost you. brent is currently on a tube hunting trip. he will come back on the 22th of july. c'ant wait to see if he finds more pinched waist tubes. in any case, get rid of the stock tubes as fast as you can. especially the ge tubes. they are horrid sounding tubes. and d'ont waist your time with new production 6922 tubes. none of these tubes can hold a candle to the best nos tubes. not even the e.a.t. e88cc tubes.
> 
> the real question is how much are you ready to spend on a single pair of tubes for the lyr? anyway you should email brent and ask him what you need. he is a sweetheart and will answer your every questions. if you want the best sound at affordable prices, the orange globes are the way to go. no doubt. price performance ratio is absurdly high. and as a bonus you can have many pairs.pinched waist tubes are very scarce and in fact my pinched waist tubes exibit just a tiny bit of microphonics, and one of them as a small defect. the microphonics disappear when i change them of socket on the lyr. they are by far the easiest tubes ever to remove from the lyr sockets. they are an absolute delight with the sennheiser hd 800. just plain incredible. the lyr is an inexpensive amplifier that can scale to very high level of sound quality.


 
  you know what the amount of cash i spent on tubes in the past few weeks rolling tubes for lyr has exceeded 2 times what a pair of pinched wasit would cost.. if someone was selling pinched waist for cheap i would have probably bought them
   
  I am going to be humble and callmyself an idiot for buying a ton of sub par stuff, but i enjoy price performance ratio instead of going with the best stuff--i am a consumer, i am not good with keeping stuff, it's like if i buy 20 dolllar a pound steak i am going to go through it fast and then feel like I just wasted my money even if I MAY enjoy it a bit more than cheap steak.
   
  I wasn't going to buy anything at all, the GE tubes, that I bought to replace the stock 6bz7 tubes were already more than what I wanted to spend on the lyr after a year using 6bz7, lol.


----------



## eyeoftheruby

Has anyone tried the Chinese equivalent of the 6DJ8, the 6N11? 
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Shuguang-Chinese-6N11-6922-6DJ8-Vacuum-Tube-2PCS-/120649841315
   
  Curious if these sound any good since they're so cheap.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





erikfreedom said:


> i recommend www.audiotubes.com
> 
> brent jesse.  the guy is a tube freak and has vast knowledge on every kind of tubes. he often has in stock very scarce uber expensive tubes. prices are high but the guy is unquestionably a reference in tubes. i have bought many tubes there and was always extremely happy. if you want the best sound for the lyr it is going to cost you a lot.  i have orange globes and they d'ont sound as good as my 1956 pinched waist mullards. not by a long shot.it's not even funny! with the pinched waist mullards, my lyr sound as good or better than my 3 channel b22 to my ears. absolutely incredible sounding tubes. if you want as good sounding as the pinched waist mullards for half the price, but still expensive, i recommend 7308 mazda france large halo getter gold pins from the 60's. the pinched waist mullards cost 600 bucks a pair and the mazda tubes 325 to 350 a pair. you want the best sound, it is going to cost you. brent is currently on a tube hunting trip. he will come back on the 22th of july. c'ant wait to see if he finds more pinched waist tubes. in any case, get rid of the stock tubes as fast as you can. especially the ge tubes. they are horrid sounding tubes. and d'ont waist your time with new production 6922 tubes. none of these tubes can hold a candle to the best nos tubes. not even the e.a.t. e88cc tubes.
> 
> the real question is how much are you ready to spend on a single pair of tubes for the lyr? anyway you should email brent and ask him what you need. he is a sweetheart and will answer your every questions. if you want the best sound at affordable prices, the orange globes are the way to go. no doubt. price performance ratio is absurdly high. and as a bonus you can have many pairs.pinched waist tubes are very scarce and in fact my pinched waist tubes exibit just a tiny bit of microphonics, and one of them as a small defect. the microphonics disappear when i change them of socket on the lyr. they are by far the easiest tubes ever to remove from the lyr sockets. they are an absolute delight with the sennheiser hd 800. just plain incredible. the lyr is an inexpensive amplifier that can scale to very high level of sound quality.


 
   
  +1
   
  Orange globes are not in the same league as the pinched waists (or S&H CCa, or Amperex USN-CEP, etc.) .
  And yes, the best sound will cost you a lot.


----------



## rb2013

dnlee480 said:


> I never new how expensive tubes got. I do want the best performance out of lyrs. When comparing the lyr to my burson I have to say the highs don't sound as clean imo. But I probably need to break it more. Will putting higher tubes eliminate some of the noise? I heard tubes make noise. Well thank u all for your input. Not sure if I'm ready to spend 600 dollars for a tube yet but who knows. I always want the best I can get im the end. Hehehe




Give the 6922 equivalent Russian Voskhod 6n23p a try. The 1970's version are especially great. Some tubes can be noisy, these are inky black quiet, with great clarity and extension. They're prices are very reasonable. I have a pr of Siemens PCC88 Gray Shields and a pr SEL Lorentz PCC88 for sale as well. $70 for Siemens (I think Brent Jesse charges $150), and $40 for the SEL Lorentz. Just PM me if interested. Both have been tested NOS on my Sencor TC-162 tube tester. The Lyr is very senitive to tube changes.

I have the HD800s also, they go well together. I also have a Woo WA-6SE, the Lyr (with right tubes) is way more dynamic. Makes the Woo sound a bit boring in comparison. Keep burning the Lyr...and join the tube rolling madness!


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





eyeoftheruby said:


> Has anyone tried the Chinese equivalent of the 6DJ8, the 6N11?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Shuguang-Chinese-6N11-6922-6DJ8-Vacuum-Tube-2PCS-/120649841315
> 
> Curious if these sound any good since they're so cheap.


 
   
  Not sure but i think they're closer to 6N1P than 6DJ8.
   
  6N1P isn't the best tube for Lyr imo.


----------



## rb2013

eyeoftheruby said:


> Has anyone tried the Chinese equivalent of the 6DJ8, the 6N11?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Shuguang-Chinese-6N11-6922-6DJ8-Vacuum-Tube-2PCS-/120649841315
> 
> Curious if these sound any good since they're so cheap.




They're worse then the stock GEs.


----------



## rb2013

r scott ireland said:


> +1
> 
> Orange globes are not in the same league as the pinched waists (or S&H CCa, or Amperex USN-CEP, etc.) .
> And yes, the best sound will cost you a lot.




I have owned several pairs of the Siemens CCa, both the legendary gray shields and the later silver shields, and have the Philips '60s Holland D getter SQs,and Bugle Boy '58 D getters. I am putting together a review of these Voskhod Rockets. The '70s vintage crush the BB and SQs, IMO the very best Voskhod - the 1975 gray shields better the CCas.


----------



## rb2013

Regarding 6922/6dj8 tube noise, in my 15yr long experience with this tube (I have two amps and DAC that uses them as well), the Amperex can be quite prone to microphonics and tube noise. The Siemens less so. Microphonics is different then tube noise (sometimes refered to as 'tube rush'), it is usually set off by vibration. You can tell a microphonic tube, by touching it lightly while turned on w/o source. A microphonic tube will exhibit noise when touched or distrubed. This can vary among different equipment - in other words a tube can be non-microphonic in one amp and microphonic in another, depending on amp design. This issue can be min by using tube rings, I like the Herbies. The Tubemonger vibration risers are good as well, and help make it easier to swap tubes. These devices can not eliminate microphonics completely but min the noise it creates.

Tube rush would be heard on all amps, and is usually exhibited by a background hissing or static sound. This noise can mask low level detail. Best way to test, with no source, turn the volume up 10-20%, listen. Be sure to turn the volume back down before playing music!!! Some tubes have so much noise it can be heard at normal listening levels, these should be avoided, they're really masking detail. Alot of the tubes sold on EBay are noisy tubes.

Edit. You can minimize some noise issues by treating the pins with Detox, a de-oxidizer. Then with a non-conductive contact enhancer like ProGold.


----------



## dnlee480

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Brent Jessee (audiotubes.com) and mercedesman on ebay are two trusted and very reliable vendors. Only buy from trusted vendors. Upscale Audio is trustworthy also. Upscale's Ediswans are an amazing tube for the money, with crystal clear highs and nice bass. Or if you don't want to spend a lot, many people rave about the matsu****- Upscale carries these also. Your Lyr shouldn't make noise- it should be dead quiet. Maybe try switching the positions of the tubes and see if this eliminates the noise.


 
  I'll give that a try.  The noise depends on what source I put through it.  When I send ps3 sound through it is when noise is consistent whether I raise the volume or lower competely; however the noise increase as volume increases.  When I have the lyr hooked up to the dac out of the burson audio, I get noise intermittently.  But not as bad as when I'm hooked up to to my PS3.


----------



## Sanlitun

Tomorrow is my Dad's birthday and this is usually a big weekend around here so I am rolling in my best tubes. 1962 Berlin ECC88.


​
I've bought a set or two of the currently available Telefunken tubes with the fake enamel labels out of curiosity and they don't hold a candle to the real thing and are no better than random Bugle Boys at best. They don't actually have the real TF sound at all IMHO.

Anyways, Caveat Emptor.


----------



## rb2013

zuckfun said:


> Brent Jessee (audiotubes.com) and mercedesman on ebay are two trusted and very reliable vendors. Only buy from trusted vendors. Upscale Audio is trustworthy also. Upscale's Ediswans are an amazing tube for the money, with crystal clear highs and nice bass. Or if you don't want to spend a lot, many people rave about the matsu****- Upscale carries these also. Your Lyr shouldn't make noise- it should be dead quiet. Maybe try switching the positions of the tubes and see if this eliminates the noise.




Checkout www.tubeworld.com. Also a great educational resource with lots of pictures...so you can get to know what each looks like.


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> only for local pick up, how many people live there wow


 
  its confusing the way he has listed the item - shipping says pickup but in the description he offers postage
   
  i got mine shipped to New Zealand so he does do it


----------



## hedphonz

i just ordered myself a bottlehead crack so will have some more tubes to hunt
   
  anyone here own the lyr and the crack ? which do you prefer


----------



## Zuckfun

There was so much consistent praise recently for Voskhod, I finally caved.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=350706150305

I have no clue what I bought, so if someone knows, the insight is greatly appreciated. At $20, worst case scenario, it will be the least amount I've spent on a pair of tubes that aren't very good. Hopefully I'll get lucky...Gold Grid...Uh-Oh


----------



## rb2013

zuckfun said:


> There was so much consistent praise recently for Voskhod, I finally caved.
> 
> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=350706150305
> 
> I have no clue what I bought, so if someone knows, the insight is greatly appreciated. At $20, worst case scenario, it will be the least amount I've spent on a pair of tubes that aren't very good. Hopefully I'll get lucky...Gold Grid...Uh-Oh




6n1p - wrong tube. You need to find a 6n23p. Right date (1975), right factory (Voskhod)! Unfortunately the type and factory are the most important. 

If it was only so easy to find them as that.


----------



## Zuckfun

rb2013 said:


> 6n1p - wrong tube. You need to find a 6n23p. Right date (1975), right factory (Voskhod)! Unfortunately the type and factory are the most important.
> 
> If it was only so easy to find them as that.


Is this tube even compatible? I looked on the Schiit site, it says rollable to all 6n1p. But yeah, I knew I was looking for 6n23p, couldn't find any. I saw the 75 on the glass in the picture, and figured why not. Oh well.


----------



## rb2013

zuckfun said:


> Is this tube even compatible? I looked on the Schiit site, it says rollable to all 6n1p. But yeah, I knew I was looking for 6n23p, couldn't find any. I saw the 75 on the glass on the picture, and figured why not. Oh well.




The 6n1p is compatible, unfortunately these don't sound very good in the Lyr. The '70s 6n23p (sometimes called 6h23p) Voskhods are getting really hard to find. 
Trust me l've been looking. I may have a few extra pairs coming in, I'll let know. They have to pass testing and matching.


----------



## Zuckfun

rb2013 said:


> The 6n1p is compatible, unfortunately these don't sound very good in the Lyr. The '70s 6n23p (sometimes called 6h23p) Voskhods are getting really hard to find.
> Trust me l've been looking. I may have a few extra pairs coming in, I'll let know. They have to pass testing and matching.


 Thanks for your input. Very tough to find the good ones. Please let me know if you have a good pair available. I'd like to hear what a great Voskhod is capable of.


----------



## rb2013

zuckfun said:


> Thanks for your input. Very tough to find the good ones. Please let me know if you have a good pair available. I'd like to hear what a great Voskhod is capable of.




They're a great sounding tube...and at least for now relatively cheap. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## teb1013

rb2013 said:


> They're a great sounding tube...and at least for now relatively cheap. I'll keep you posted.




I bought these before I found this thread http://www.boiaudioworks.com/6N23P based solely on the Voskhod name. Based on what you say, I may have the "wrong tubes". I find them strident and too forward for my taste and have moved to Amperex 7308 JAN (green, 1968) which I love. I don't want to dismiss Voskhod however, if I got the wrong thing. Your expertise is appreciated.


----------



## Timodeus

christophhh said:


> They sound so good...crying




I am sorry to have caused you any emotional disturbance!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Today I rolled 2 sets of tubes through the Lyr/Bifrost Uber setup. First, Voskhod 1979 Silver Shields (Kaluga factory). Second, Amperex Bugle Boy 1959 D Getters (recommended to me by OldSkool). Listened with both LCD-3's and HD800's.

Voskhods with HD800 - These are very nice tubes and enjoyable to listen to, and a bargain at only $10 each. However, the highs are very forward, giving the impression of inadequate bass and mids. The highs also have a slight harshness and are a bit sibilant. The soundstage is excellent; wide and medium-deep with good separation of instruments and voices. With some recordings, the "highs forward" presentation can be exciting. 6/10 on my personal rating system.

Voskhods with LCD-3 - these phones tamed the treble a bit and added a little smoothness, although highs are still very forward. Bass and mids still seem to be lacking in dense passages, although strangely, male tenor voices sounded very good. 6.5/10.

'59 Bugle Boy D-getters with HD800 - Wow, OldSkool did me right recommending these. They are not your "average" Bugle Boys. These tubes are among the best I've heard. Precise/accurate in all frequencies, with a medium soundstage. The presentation has a beautiful smoothness, but they are not warm, which so often is the tradeoff for a smooth sound. These are first-rate. 9/10.

59 Bugle Boy D-getters with LCD-3 - Same comments as with the HD800. I like them a little better with the HD800, but they sound excellent with both. 8.5/10.

Many thanks to OldSkool for recommending them!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Today I rolled 2 sets of tubes through the Lyr/Bifrost Uber setup. First, Voskhod 1979 Silver Shields (Kaluga factory). Second, Amperex Bugle Boy 1959 D Getters (recommended to me by OldSkool). Listened with both LCD-3's and HD800's.
> 
> Voskhods with HD800 - These are very nice tubes and enjoyable to listen to, and a bargain at only $10 each. However, the highs are very forward, giving the impression of inadequate bass and mids. The highs also have a slight harshness and are a bit sibilant. The soundstage is excellent; wide and medium-deep with good separation of instruments and voices. With some recordings, the "highs forward" presentation can be exciting. 6/10 on my personal rating system.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks Scott! Excellent review, as always. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Today I rolled 2 sets of tubes through the Lyr/Bifrost Uber setup. First, Voskhod 1979 Silver Shields (Kaluga factory). Second, Amperex Bugle Boy 1959 D Getters (recommended to me by OldSkool). Listened with both LCD-3's and HD800's.
> 
> Voskhods with HD800 - These are very nice tubes and enjoyable to listen to, and a bargain at only $10 each. However, the highs are very forward, giving the impression of inadequate bass and mids. The highs also have a slight harshness and are a bit sibilant. The soundstage is excellent; wide and medium-deep with good separation of instruments and voices. With some recordings, the "highs forward" presentation can be exciting. 6/10 on my personal rating system.
> 
> Voskhods with LCD-3 - these phones tamed the treble a bit and added a little smoothness, although highs are still very forward. Bass and mids still seem to be lacking in dense passages, although strangely, male tenor voices sounded very good. 6.5/10.


 
  Just found this from Upscale Audio's website:
  "Rocket Logo 6H23 - This tube sounds wonderful. Great extension, nice mids."
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *christophhh*
> 
> 
> 
> They sound so good...crying


 
  Best quote yet on the '70s Voskhods!


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Just found this from Upscale Audio's website:
> "."
> 
> 
> ...


 
  they sell rockets? 
   
  obviously they do, but it has like zero information on date, lolz like all their other stuff, the minus about them
   
  Another minus for Upscale Audio: SUPPORT SUCKS. NO RESPONSE ON REQUEST FOR 2 WEEKS. and their contact is hard to find on their site too. 
   
  Another another minus: their tube date is not the only thing not provided like Mercedesman and like basically ALL OTHER SELLERS --the SCORE is given RANDOMLY, my matsu****a tubes were 11k and someone else who bought a pair after my initial recommendation here got a pair with 15k score. What
   
  I am going to downrate them 3 from their9.5 to 6.5 out of 10 for these.


----------



## sceleratus

rb
  I returned from the LA meet to find I had a bright yellow parcel with my name on it.
  I've nestled them in between some Electro Harmonix 300B's the @randytsuch loaned me.
  They are a big step up from the JJ's but I'm only 30 minutes in.
   
  Finished my first flac track of them "thar rusky tubes"   They sound like I'll leave em in long enough to see where the settle.
  I'm impatient.... so that's a great sign.


----------



## Zuckfun

overwerk said:


> they sell rockets?
> 
> obviously they do, but it has like zero information on date


 Upscale's Rockets caught my eye...I'm sure they sound great, or they wouldn't sell them, but with no date info, it's a gamble. I'm really only interested in hearing Voskhod's best- the 75 Rockets. Good luck finding those though. Also, Upscale only has driver quality available, which probably translates to microphonic rockets. I'm kind of at the point where unless I spend a considerable amount (S/H CCA or Amperex Pinched Waist) the USN-CEP's will remain at the top of my list. Telefunkens are great, but don't have much bass presence, atleast my pair doesn't. Ediswan has Telefunken's clarity, but with the bass that's missing from my pair. The OG's are a great tube, but the USN-CEP's, well, this is a champion tube.


----------



## rb2013

overwerk said:


> they sell rockets?
> 7
> obviously they do, but it has like zero information on date, lolz like all their other stuff, the minus about them
> 
> ...




Wow...too bad about that. I was going to get a pr of Siemans and Tele CCas to compare against these incredible '75 Voshkods. Because I've had 3 or 4 pairs of these and never heard details like I'm getting from these low cost Voshkods. 

Maybe I should hold off?


----------



## sceleratus

Ooops.
   
  I was hasty with my impression.  I don't think they pair well with the 300B
  I have some benchmark tracks and, well, they failed.   As I said, I'm not a patient guy.
   
  Rolled em' out.
   
  But that's just me and this amp.
  My vaunted RTC's don't pair well either.
  Those were my end game valves, but not with this amp.
  They are collecting dirt.


----------



## rb2013

sceleratus said:


> rb
> I returned from the LA meet to find I had a bright yellow parcel with my name on it.
> I've nestled them in between some Electro Harmonix 300B's the @randytsuch loaned me.
> They are a big step up from the JJ's but I'm only 30 minutes in.
> ...


 

Yes they do take 48 hrs burnin - min. But good to hear. Just got a PM from a long time Headfier...who just dropped in the'75s. Well just to say he is blown away! Thank you...3 times. DETAIL unbelieveable.


----------



## rb2013

sceleratus said:


> Ooops.
> 
> I was hasty with my impression.  I don't think they pair well with the 300B
> I have some benchmark tracks and, well, they failed.   As I said, I'm not a patient guy.
> ...




Totally different character then the Lyr? Too bad it's gone. This amp might be a good candidate for a Mullard. Then again, my long experience with the 300b, could be the different 300bs themselves. Always used WE, but they are crazy expense now.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Totally different character then the Lyr? Too bad it's gone. This amp might be a good candidate for a Mullard. Then again, my long experience with the 300b, could be the different 300bs themselves. Always used WE, but they are crazy expense now.


 
  Brent Jesse WE co. 300B's    $6000 hello !!!!


----------



## sceleratus

I should give em' time but it's just not my nature if I have something that's blowing me away.
   
  Plus this amp is so green.  It may have 20 hours on it.  Plus while waiting for the enclosure I bought Mundorf capacitors and Texas Components hand made naked metal foil resistors.  That stuff was played for the first time at the meet.
   
  I'm not done with them just yet.  I want to listen to music for a while without being analytical on components.
  In short.  I'm toast.


----------



## rb2013

zuckfun said:


> Upscale's Rockets caught my eye...I'm sure they sound great, or they wouldn't sell them, but with no date info, it's a gamble. I'm really only interested in hearing Voskhod's best- the 75 Rockets. Good luck finding those though. Also, Upscale only has driver quality available, which probably translates to microphonic rockets. I'm kind of at the point where unless I spend a considerable amount (S/H CCA or Amperex Pinched Waist) the USN-CEP's will remain at the top of my list. Telefunkens are great, but don't have much bass presence, atleast my pair doesn't. Ediswan has Telefunken's clarity, but with the bass that's missing from my pair. The OG's are a great tube, but the USN-CEP's, well, this is a champion tube.



I get you on the Voskhod date issue. There is a seller over on Audiogon with USNs

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-white-label-6922-e88cc-pair-usn-cep-pq-nos-nib-matched-pair-gold-pin-2013-06-27-accessories-92821-brea-ca



sceleratus said:


> Brent Jesse WE co. 300B's    $6000 hello !!!!




A guy on Audiogon has them for $3200..I Remember paying $1400 and thinking that was crazy.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-western-electric-300b-matching-pair-2013-06-26-accessories-11229-brooklyn-ny


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I should give em' time but it's just not my nature if I have something that's blowing me away.
> 
> Plus this amp is so green.  It may have 20 hours on it.  Plus while waiting for the enclosure I bought Mundorf capacitors and Texas Components hand made naked metal foil resistors.  That stuff was played for the first time at the meet.
> 
> ...


 

 Those excellent caps alone will take 50-100 hrs to burn-in.  In my experience caps take the longest.  An Ultra-detailed tube like these '75 Voskhods would not be kind...to say the least!  A Mullard or Amperex is probably your best best at this stage.


----------



## rb2013

Feedback from a long time Headfier on the select '75 Gray Shield Voskhods I sent:
   
  "After 5 hours of assorted burn-in fodder...pink noise, different frequency sweeps, regular assorted music...I could wait no longer...
   
  ...Now remember I don't have the quality of stuff like you do.
  I picked 4 reference songs I usually use because their production is so clean...3 Steely Dan songs that have a lot of subtle things to listen for and one off the remastered Led Zeppelin cd.  Listened to Black Cow, FM and the song Aja by Steely Dan and Babe I'm Gonna Leave You from Zep.
   
  Now remember too...only 5 hours of burning.
   
  Bob...pardon my French but  H O L Y  'COWCRAP' [edit]!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  Just initial stuff.  In my system the only problem I had with the 80's silvers was that they were SO upfront in the presentation that it got a little crowded soundstage wise on some things.  The T1's aren't nearly as expansive in soundstage as your 800's so you're trying to jam more into a smaller space....the 80's on a busy song like Aja could get a little smeared and the treble on some things (and I LOVE treble) could get a tad over the top, even to me.  These approached that on a very few things (remember the T1's have more of a 2nd row presentation to your 800's 10th row) but very briefly and it probably was a volume thing on my part.  The mids are like you said, MUCH more liquid and lush...tons of detail without the edge.  I heard detail in those 4 songs Id never heard before and damn Bob, the new things I heard weren't subtle...they were like a velvet baseball bat to the side of my smilin' noggin'.
  Just getting started...but you weren't kidding.  Soundstage wider and deeper and separation is exquisitely improved over the 80's. 
  These are something special !!!!
  Let me really get into these tonight and tomorrow...like you said, I want to get my mind wrapped around them.  More later.  THANK YOU !!"
   
   
   
  "...and oh yeah, the bass is killer.  bass is not typically one of my highest priorities but that is some quality bass, great weight without being overblown."
   
  What a great perspective on these different Voskhods.  Wait until they settle down and really open up.  Another 50-100 hrs down the road..trust me they will get even better!
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Those excellent caps alone will take 50-100 hrs to burn-in.  In my experience caps take the longest.  An Ultra-detailed tube like these '75 Voskhods would not be kind...to say the least!  A Mullard or Amperex is probably your best best at this stage.


 
  Thanks rb
   
  Very objective recommendation.  I've been pushing so hard with this dumb thing, I need to declare a moratorium on adding stuff and figure out exactly what I have right now.
  I think you are spot on with "ultra" detail at this point in time.  That was it.  They were clinical and narrow.
   
  A huge "Thanks" to Old Skool for selling me his 58' Valvo PCC88's D getter.  Those are damn fine next to the 300b.   As in wow....across the entire spectrum.
  At this point, they are rock'n the sockets and I can't keep em' in the box.  58' Bugle Boy's are a close 2nd.  Those are for head banger tracks.  Raw,  great musicality, but you can't listen to them for a long session.


----------



## Sanlitun

overwerk said:


> they sell rockets?
> 
> obviously they do, but it has like zero information on date, lolz like all their other stuff, the minus about them
> 
> ...




The Telefunkens I got from Upscale Audio were perhaps the most disappointing transaction I have ever had in this hobby. And no answer at all from their support.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> The Telefunkens I got from Upscale Audio were perhaps the most disappointing transaction I have ever had in this hobby. And no answer at all from their support.


 
  i mean their name, upscale, snobby arses without any respect for costumers


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





> Very objective recommendation.  I've been pushing so hard with this dumb thing, I need to declare a moratorium on adding stuff and figure out exactly what I have right now.
> I think you are spot on with "ultra" detail at this point in time.  That was it.  They were clinical and narrow.


 
   
  They do need at least 48 hrs to open up - Your whole amp will settle in after a 100 hrs or so.  New caps can be icy cold - they especially need run time.
   
  When I got the Lyr, it was a brand new unit.  It sounded pretty plain out of the box - very closed in.  I almost sent it back and returned to the Woo WA6-SE.  But my long time audio experience told me to be patient.  That patience was richly rewarded.  I'm selling the Woo to a friend and keeping the Lyr.
   
  And in fact, will buy another Lyr for modding.  The combination of the Lyr and these 70's Voskhods and my HD800/ Black Dragons is incredible.  Detail and warm rich tonality like I have never experienced - even when I had my $60K super system.
   
  Now I'm not using a Bifrost DAC.  In my two systems, both have tubed DACs. 
  The very high end APL NWO (an older version with the ECC99) http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/aplhifi/nwo30go.html
  and a Xindak DAC-5 http://www.xindak.com/english/products/showditail.asp?id=326
  I'm using the Supra Sword interconnect on each (these alone cost more then the Lyr) and I'm feeding the Lyr and DACs with Synergistic Research X2 Ref power cords - from Tesla treated wall sockets.  I'm looking to take the Lyr to it's very limit of capability.
   
  Just like my headphone amps, I'm not a big fan of solid state DACs as you can see.   My music source is from two custom built music servers, listening to wave files with Foobar and JPlay - then up-sampled to 24/176K with SoX.  I also have Hi-Def 32/176k files I made when I digitalized my LP/SACD/DVDA collection - these are amazing!
   
  Since my source is extremely refined, the added detail, transparency and clarity of the '75 Voskhods in the Lyr, has really been shocking.  I mean old recordings like Phil Collins "Face Value"  that I have heard 100s of times over the decades, that was sounding just routine, has become a near religious experience!   All kind of detail is coming out that I never heard before.  "In the Air Tonight" had my heart racing with those incredible drum beats, and "The Roof is Leaking" had goosebumps running down my arms.   Man this is a blast...too much fun for just a guy in a chair listening to some HPs.
   
  I knew I was really on to something when I put a '75 V in the DAC5 as well - and level of detail revealed increased again.   All with a sweet, rich musical tonality.  Deep, tight extended bass.  Expansive sound stage - wow!  These incredible sounds emerging from an ink black quiet background.
   
  Now I'm going through my whole collection of old stuff: Led Zepp, Steely Dan, Joni Mitchell, etc...  On the newer recordings same thing: Mumford and Sons, Florence and the Machines, Brand New, etc.. - I mean breathtaking good.  I have been doing this critical listening now for a few hours a day for the last 2 months.
   
  One other note  - the HD800s with the stock cord can be a bit thin in tone and bass extension, with a bright nature, even sibilant at times.  Read the multiple comments on this issue over at the 'Battle of the 58 Flagships' thread.  For me swapping in the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable - 'cured' this issue and increased the HD800s tonal richness and bass extension.  The Moons especially smoothed the sibilant problems.  Again, I was looking to take the HD800s to their extreme.  I still have to try the Stephan Audio Arts Endorphin cable - I have heard many good things about them.
   
  But those who are using a ss DAC may need the lower level of detail of these other tubes, it may actually sound better I guess.  So far my disappointment with the SEL Lorentz PCC88 and the Siemens PCC88 gray shields has me looking another direction.  I am offering these Voskhod tubes to get a perspective on what they may do for other systems, so your feedback is greatly appreciated.  Give them a little burnin down the road once your amp has stabilized and see how they sound.
   
  Good Luck!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Edit: PS The Mundorf Silver Caps are a bit brighter then say a paper in oil cap.  And need even more burn in time.  At some point you may want to try the Teflon V-Caps.  I had these installed in my old Hurricane Amps - Wow!
  Here is a cool Cap review: http://www.laventure.net/tourist/caps.htm
  On the Mundorf Silver Caps (AA tier)
  "This is an oil impregnated, metalized paper capacitor, with the same series configuration as the original MCap Supreme. High-purity silver is used for the capacitor coating, and the winding is impregnated with a special oil. Despite the hype, we found the sound to be similar to the regular MCap, above. The major difference is that the sound spectrum shifted upwards, adding emphasis to the highs, at the apparent expense of the bass. While this creates a greater sense of air and transparency, the impression of a diminished bass response may not make it the best choice for a full-range speaker system."
   
  The Teflon V-Caps he rates best (AAA tier) - but have a very long burnin:
  "With a 400 hour break-in (200 hour absolute minimum), we once complained that these weren't a "real world" product. However, they really _are_ worth the wait. There's simply less "there" there than with any other capacitor we tried in any high voltage, audio signal circuit. They are more transparent, more detailed and, well, more of everything that you're looking for. Or perhaps less of everything you'd like to avoid. Properly placed, they'll reveal more of the ambient clues that distinguish individual sound spaces, as well as the individual voices and instruments within them"
  
  How insane is this hobby????
  My old Response modded 'Canes
  http://responseaudiony.com/hurricane%20extreme.htm


----------



## eac3

claud w said:


> Back to Amperex PQs that make the Mad Dogs sound sooooooo seductive.




Hello all, 

I have a pair of Mad Dog headphones like this guy and I have been set on going SS and upgrade from my Schiit Modi amp. However, curiousity kicks in but I am a complete newbie about tube amps (and tubes in general). My question is not Mad Dog specific as that would seem better placed in that thread, but more about general idea of tube amps..specifically the Schiit Lyr.

I already knew going down the tube amp road would be more expensive than SS, but what is the lifetime on tubes? If I am going to invest in some tubes ($100+), how long do they last considering you use them for 4-5 hours a day? Do the stock tubes that come with the Lyr amp not compete in anyway to these tubes I am seeing on ebay for $2-300?

I have never experienced tube amps.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





eac3 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have a pair of Mad Dog headphones like this guy and I have been set on going SS and upgrade from my Schiit Modi amp. However, curiousity kicks in but I am a complete newbie about tube amps (and tubes in general). My question is not Mad Dog specific as that would seem better placed in that thread, but more about general idea of tube amps..specifically the Schiit Lyr.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey - great headphone!  I am ordering the new Mad Dog Universal with the improved connectors and the 1/4" single end cable tomorrow!  I should have them in a week.  I needed a semi closed back for when the wife is vacuuming, neighbor mowing the lawn (as you've probably read I like a very quite background for my music).   I'll be able to give you a better perspective on how they osund with the Lyr and various tubes, in a couple of weeks.  I also want to try an ortho HP to compare to my HD800s.  I have read really great things about these bargain HPs (good Mad Dog thread).  Some have said it betters the LCD3 and HE-6s in some ways (especially the latest version with the Alpha pads).  I and others, keep bugging David Mahler to add them to his historic "Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared)"review thread.
   
  To answer your question on how long tubes last.  The Lyr takes a 6922 or 6dj8 and the many equivalents.  The 6dj8 is rate at approx 7,000hrs the 6922 10,000hrs.  I have had a pair of compatible Voskhod 6n23ps running daily in my integrated amps for 4 years about 8 hrs a day (back ground listening in my office) without issue.  These are known to be particularly hardy tubes.  I've had Amperex and Siemens tubes fail after just a couple of months - so it can vary.
   
  Give credit to Schiit for not shipping with the typical generic JJs or Chinese tubes alot of manufacturers use.  They come stock with decent GEs.  One great thing about this amp it really scales well with better tubes, and that is what this thread has been all about.   Folks have been having varying degrees of success from $800 Amperex 6dj8 pinched waists to $20 Voskhod 1990s 6n23ps and everything in between.
   
  So the fun/mania of this amp is the ease and flexibility of trying different tubes. 
   
  The Lyr can be bought used for around $300 - it's one of audios incredible bargains! (like the Mad Dogs).  I'm selling my $1000 Woo amp and keeping the Lyr.
   
  Do your home work and spend a little time reading the last 50 pages or so of this thread.  It would be worth the effort.
   
  What source do you have?


----------



## eac3

rb2013 said:


> Hey - great headphone!  I am ordering the new Mad Dog Universal with the improved connectors and the 1/4" single end cable tomorrow!  I should have them in a week.  I needed a semi closed back for when the wife is vacuuming, neighbor mowing the lawn (as you've probably read I like a very quite background for my music).   I'll be able to give you a better perspective on how they osund with the Lyr and various tubes, in a couple of weeks.  I also want to try an ortho HP to compare to my HD800s.  I have read really great things about these bargain HPs (good Mad Dog thread).  Some have said it betters the LCD3 and HE-6s in some ways (especially the latest version with the Alpha pads).  I and others, keep bugging David Mahler to add them to his historic "Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared)"review thread.
> 
> To answer your question on how long tubes last.  The Lyr takes a 6922 or 6dj8 and the many equivalents.  The 6dj8 is rate at approx 7,000hrs the 6922 10,000hrs.  I have had a pair of compatible Voskhod 6n23ps running daily in my integrated amps for 4 years about 8 hrs a day (back ground listening in my office) without issue.  These are known to be particularly hardy tubes.  I've had Amperex and Siemens tubes fail after just a couple of months - so it can vary.
> 
> ...





Thank you for your reply. Yes, I should and will be doing some more homework on this. My source is a The Schiit Magni (I have the Magni & Modi stack). I use them currently in the lab/office/school but was looking at getting something at home. So the Schiit Lyr or Asgard 2, and the Bitfrost


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





eac3 said:


> Thank you for your reply. Yes, I should and will be doing some more homework on this. My source is a The Schiit Magni (I have the Magni & Modi stack). I use them currently in the lab/office/school but was looking at getting something at home. So the Schiit Lyr or Asgard 2, and the Bitfrost


 

 Good sources!  I hear the Mad Dogs like juice?  I'm thinking they should really shine with the high octane Lyr.
   
  That said I have to admit I'm a tube DAC guy myself


----------



## tuna47

I also love tubes fun. To roll and just have a sweet sound. Many people prefer SS but for me it's tubes


----------



## Overwerk

tektronic orange tubes have been performing really well, although one of mine is a dark orange one, althought mercedesman said they were matched, it's of same year 1972 different week probably close 2 months, it arrived smudged up labels, and after me using duomax dampers X4 on them they scraped off easily almost everything, I was careful about using the dampers, not to position them where there are labeling and printing of those dark orange lettering, but as I was trying to use all 4 of my dampers to see if it helps with anything, I had no choice but to see the labels smudged off, not like it matters because I ain't ever going to sell these anyways and I didn't bother to take a picture before doing such permanent damage because, they weren't looking mint to begin with---, I had to do some cleaning to not let them into the lyr
   
  that tube is microphonic. ting and the fades away after i plug in headphone. when using dampers the ting is smaller, but when first opening the lyr there are large amounts of white noise, adjusting the tube carefully takes it away randomly but creates huge noise like when you take off the tube while lyr is on.
   
  he has yet to agree to send me the replacement he has without me sending this one back, the reason why he wants a bad one back is beyond me.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> tektronic orange tubes have been performing really well, although one of mine is a dark orange one, althought mercedesman said they were matched, it's of same year 1972 different week probably close 2 months, it arrived smudged up labels, and after me using duomax dampers X4 on them they scraped off easily almost everything, I had to do some cleaning to not let them into the lyr
> 
> that tube is microphonic. ting and the fades away after i plug in headphone. when using dampers the ting is smaller, but when first opening the lyr there are large amounts of white noise, adjusting the tube carefully takes it away randomly but creates huge noise like when you take off the tube while lyr is on.
> 
> he has yet to agree to send me the replacement he has without me sending this one back, the reason why he wants a bad one back is beyond me.


 
  NEVER.
  Never
  Unplug ANYTHING from audio gear when it is powered up.
  It will very likely damage a component.
   
  The valve is part of the circuit.  Even if were only one pin don't do it.  Same goes for RCA connectors in the rear.
   
  The tube has 9 pins  Do you think you are disconnecting them at exactly the same time??   NO  Part of the circuit is energized and part isn't.  "poof"
   
  Stop for your own good


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> NEVER.
> Never
> Unplug ANYTHING from audio gear when it is powered up.
> It will very likely damage a component.
> ...


 
  i don't do that. i know what I am doing jeezzk i maybe did it once and it literally made me deaf, why would i do it again


----------



## Overwerk

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-AKG-Studio-Monitor-Headphones-Model-K240-DF-/271240040428?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEDWX%3AIT&nma=true&si=o4t08HDgpOSol%252FqsA6jc0Jxp5QQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
   
   
  can the k240df be driven properlly(potentially) by the lyr? didn't buyt this one it's got crappy condition, but there is a nother pair for 140 bucks, fair price because it as the msrp, but it was not as mint as mint can go so I am asking the seller for some discount. if you offer less than 100 then it would not be yours just so you know because i am offering 100 to him
   
  I don't think money matters though for these k240df, if people say these will shine even with  a 300 dollar amp, then the lyr should be more than enough for them to sing I suppose.
   
  currently having more than 15 pairs of cans I care less if I don't get one though. Eventually there would be better conditioned for sale and i can snatch one any time they do, I would buy out immediately if they were sub 100 and real mint condition
   
   
  But I do have the k271mkii which was bought when I thought I could stay away from ebay and still get what I want, I am assuming it's not nearly as neutral as the h240df, but it will be similar comparing to all other cans out there


----------



## Overwerk

http://www.head-fi.org/t/452447/akg-k240df-quick-first-impressions-now-with-pics
   
  the detail supremacy of k240df is undisputed, probably beats k702 too


----------



## Overwerk

http://www.head-fi.org/t/452447/akg-k240df-quick-first-impressions-now-with-pics#post_6113978
   
  interesting how this guy who speak  so furiously about akg gets banned while people on the forums nowadays still agrees with basically what this man said and he did predict right, akg is still going backwards


----------



## Overwerk

the problem is I am definitely not in a stage in life where I enjoy seeking detail like a freak like when I first got the k702. owning the lyr is probably why, it changes you--the sound is less of detail more of rendition


----------



## GoldfishX

Glad to see I am not the only one on the fence about Upscale Audio. Pretty much no info on their stock, in regards to matching. Sad to hear their customer service is ass. That's one vendor to scratch off.
   
  I'm about to pick up a pair of these from Tubedepot:
   
  http://tubedepot.com/nos-6dj8-amperex.html
   
  So far so good with the Lyr and the stock GE tubes. Room for improvement though (urge to tube roll...rising), but the break-in period is still undergoing.
   
  Any thoughts on these?
   
  http://tubedepot.com/nos-6922-tesla.html


----------



## Zuckfun

goldfishx said:


> Glad to see I am not the only one on the fence about Upscale Audio. Pretty much no info on their stock, in regards to matching. Sad to hear their customer service is ass. That's one vendor to scratch off.
> 
> I'm about to pick up a pair of these from Tubedepot:
> 
> ...


I've had bad experiences with Tube Depot, and definitely can't recommend them as vendors. Ironically perhaps, I've had great experiences with Upscale Audio. Apparently, others have not which is a shame. Brent Jessee (audiotubes.com) may be your best and safest bet. FWIW, the type of tube I ordered from tube depot is not what they sent. Caveat emptor 

p.s. One of the best sounding Amperex tubes for this price- highly recommended:

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-white-label-6922-e88cc-pair-usn-cep-pq-nos-nib-matched-pair-gold-pin-2013-06-27-accessories-92821-brea-ca


----------



## Sanlitun

I had a great day here, we were able to do a comparison with a Schiit Asgard 2 using my own music, DAC and phones and also a shootout to choose the best tubes in my collection for my Lyr. Having the Asgard 2 around as a point of reference helped a lot.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> Any thoughts on these?
> 
> http://tubedepot.com/nos-6922-tesla.html


 
  Those are not much of an upgrade to the stock tubes to my ears. If your looking for a lower priced offering, I would look at the JAN 6922 Military spec such as these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-USA-JAN-6922-Tube-Military-Spec-6DJ8-Premium-Quality-ECC88-E88CC-CCa-/370831828059?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item56574ca45b, while not the best, they are much more of an upgrade then the Tesla's.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> p.s. One of the best sounding Amperex tubes for this price- highly recommended:
> 
> http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-white-label-6922-e88cc-pair-usn-cep-pq-nos-nib-matched-pair-gold-pin-2013-06-27-accessories-92821-brea-ca


 
   
  +1


----------



## rb2013

Some info for those new to the thread.  From www.tubeworld.com
   

```
[b]6DJ8 HISTORY[/b] HISTORY: ------- The 6DJ8 is a frame grid sharp cut-off twin (dual) triode with separate cathodes originally intended for use as a cascode circuits, RF and IF amplifiers, mixer and phase inverter stages. Originally the 6DJ8 had popular applications in: tuners in television receivers, front ends of VHF radio receivers. One triode acted as the local oscillator and the other as the mixer (frequency changer). Tektronix test equipment. Although not designed for the purpose the ECC88 has found favour with builders of high performance audio equipment. The tube features high transconductance, low plate resistance and low noise properties. PCC88=7DJ8 can be substituted for the 6DJ8/ECC88 6N23P=Russian made 6DJ8/ECC88 6N1P subs are 6922 and 6DJ8 ELECTRICAL DATA: --------------- MAX RATINGS: ----------- Heater voltage 6.3V Heater current 365mA Max plate voltage (Ia=0) 550V Max operating plate voltage 130V * Max plate dissipation 1.8W Max plate current 25mA Max grid voltage -50V TYPICAL OPERATION: ----------------- Heater = 6.3 Heater Current = 365ma Vplate = 90V Vgrid = -1.2V Iplate = 15ma Rplate = 2650 ohms Gm = 12500 Mu = 33 The Best Sounding 6DJ8=ECC88 ever made are: ------------------------------------------ 6DJ8 Siemens West Germany 1960's (nothing beats this tube; accurate, open, focused, detailed, airy, tight bass) 6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boy Holland "D" getter 1950's (superbly musical 6DJ8, nice articulate bass, 3D sound) 6DJ8 Telefunken West Germany 1960's (a little bass shy, but superbly smooth and listenable long term) 6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boy Holland 1960's 6DJ8 Amperex Holland 1960's and Amperex Holland Globe Logo late 1960's - mid 1970's (some are branded Philips Miniwatt) CV5358=6DJ8 Mullard 1960's (smooth, good bass, the older versions are the best) 6DJ8 Mullard 1960's (either branded Mullard or Philips or Amperex Great Britain) 6DJ8 Sylvania late 1960's - mid 1970's (excellent sound for the money, best value) 6DJ8 GE USA 1960's - 1970's (good value)
```


----------



## GoldfishX

Thanks. I'm kind of going by the descriptions on audiotubes.com at the moment.
   
  Basically what I'm gathering:
   
  Telefunken and Siemens = neutral
  Mullards = warm, good vocals
  Amperex/Phillips = mix of warmth and neutrality
   
  Is that pretty accurate? I'm open to trying a number of different tubes, the stock GE's are pleasant enough as it is. Plus my two main headphones (AD2000x, HD800) are quite different anyway...I feel warm tubes would benefit the HD800, neutral tubes would benefit the AD2000x.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> +1


 
  I've owned USN-CEP's in the past but sold them when I discovered RTC's.  I thought the RTC's were much better.  Now, since the RTC's don't sound as good in my new amp as my 58' Valvo's and BB's, I have just purchased a pair of the USN-CEP's .
   
  Zuckfun thanks for the lead.  The valves look absolutely pristine.
   
  I will list my 1965 RTC's for $175 in a day or two. ( or PM an offer)
  Both are "⊿ 5 D 2"
16mA/16mA
16mA/17mA
   
   
   
  I posted the picture with two sets is just to show the box.  I sold 1967 set a month ago, so only the 1965's are available.
   
  The silks are 70% The code on one valve is easy to read the other needs an magnifying glass at "just the right angle" but the code is 100% readable.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> Thanks. I'm kind of going by the descriptions on audiotubes.com at the moment.
> 
> Basically what I'm gathering:
> 
> ...


 

 Are you using the Marantz SACD as a source?  The feedback I'm getting from some folks who are using the Bifrost solid state DAC is a very upfront nature - and a brighter then neutral sound.  Especially with the Uber upgrade which produces an even more upfront presentation.
   
  This is most likely attributed to the Bifrost's use of the AKM DAC 4399 chip.  Especially when DC servo coupled vs. capacitor coupled as in the Uber upgrade.  When I heard my friends Bifrost - it sounded bright and very forward to my ears.  It did have good detail.  I attributed that to it being a solid state DAC, but now looking back it was even more forward then any solid state DAC I've heard.  It reminds me of an old Krell that I had - that sucker was ear bleeding bright.
   
  This chip pretty is much the same as in my APL NWO DAC, except APL uses a 10 DAC chip/per channel DAC ladder.  And most importantly Lundahl transformer coupling and class A tube output.  This retains the AKMs resolution, but tames it's bright edginess.    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/aplhifi/nwo30go.html
   
  Of course the DAC chip alone is not the end of the story but implementation.  Now Jfets, which the Bifrost uses are not known to be soft or warm.
   
  Bottom line for you is that a lot of folks here have the Bifrost and you have the Marantz (with I believe uses the Cirrus Logic chip).  From what I can tell the folks here who have the Bifrost tend to prefer the warmer-softer 'British' and 'Dutch" sound.
   
  Are you thinking of getting a Bifrost?


----------



## GoldfishX

Yes, I'm currently using the SACD8004 as a source/DAC. I want to say it is slightly warm. It sounded warmer vs the Oppo 105 I tried it against, also I have not found the HD800 overly bright as some people do.
   
  At the moment, I'm not planning on buying a separate DAC.


----------



## Zuckfun

sceleratus said:


> I've owned USN-CEP's in the past but sold them when I discovered RTC's.  I thought the RTC's were much better.  Now, since the RTC's don't sound as good in my new amp as my 58' Valvo's and BB's, I have just purchased a pair of the USN-CEP's .
> 
> Zuckfun thanks for the lead.  The valves look absolutely pristine.


Thanks go to rb for finding this. A great price for an amazing tube.


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> Yes, I'm currently using the SACD8004 as a source/DAC. I want to say it is slightly warm. It sounded warmer vs the Oppo 105 I tried it against, also I have not found the HD800 overly bright as some people do.
> 
> At the moment, I'm not planning on buying a separate DAC.


 

 You have good ears - the Oppo uses the ESS SABRE 32 DAC a [size=x-small]delta-sigma modulator[/size] like the AKM.   They tend to be bright - as you heard.  It has to do with the HF noise that this design of DAC produces.  This has to be filtered but a[size=x-small]ll of this HF noise can cause many audible artifacts downstream[/size].   Now the Cirrus CS4398 in your Marantz is a delta-sigma modulator as well - but it uses some shaping technology that minimizes this noise issue.
   
  Your take on the HD800 says a lot.  I believe many, not all, on this thread prefer the ortho's darker sound.  Makes sense - their darker nature help moderate the Bifrost's upfront, bright nature.  The Bifrost is an amazing DAC for the money - just has a certain characteristic that may not mate well with certain tubes, and be perfect with others.
   
  Just some things to keep in mind when reviewing tubes. 
   
  Good Luck!


----------



## rb2013

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Thanks go to rb for finding this. A great price for an amazing tube.


 

 Your tip of the hat is appreciated!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Thanks go to rb for finding this. A great price for an amazing tube.


 
  Thanks rb


----------



## Zuckfun

sceleratus said:


> Thanks rb


How to convince GoldfishX to jump on this offer. It's known the USN-CEP's pair great with the HD-800's, and finding these tubes for less than $300 is rare. If these were the first tubes I bought, I'd be almost $1000 richer. Although all the triumphs and tribulations of tube rolling: priceless.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> How to convince GoldfishX to jump on this offer. It's known the USN-CEP's pair great with the HD-800's, and finding these tubes for less than $300 is rare. If these were the first tubes I bought, I'd be almost $1000 richer. Although all the triumphs and tribulations of tube rolling: priceless.


 
  Yo Buba!
  Correct-a-mundo.
   
  These valves were most excellent with my Lyr and LCD2's
  I am looking forward to rolling them into my 300B
   
  I paid  $300+ the first time I bought them and they didn't look anywhere near as nice as these. (see photo)
  Anyway, there are two fewer available.


----------



## sceleratus

I listed my 65' RTC's for $155
   
  SOLD


----------



## sceleratus

SOLD
Also selling my Uber Bifrost.   $300


----------



## GoldfishX

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I listed my 65' RTC's for $155
> 
> SOLD


 
   


 Haha, I can't say I'm surprised. Damn my newbness for not knowing a good deal. At least they are going to a good home.
   
  As for the Oppo 105 vs the Marantz, I was just not in love with the idea of the Oppo being a machine that did "everything" and I didn't care for the look of it (very modern, very digital, very bleh). I felt like that was playing into my listening session as well, psychologically. It was definitely a brighter sound, no mistaking that. It was impressive at first, then I felt fatigue start to set in and kind of lost interest in the sound. The Marantz just sounded more musical and warm/fun to me.
   
  From the few posts I have seen, the DAC is well-regarded. I noticed an immediate difference when I swapped out my Sony carousel.


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## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Thanks rb


 

 They are one of the best tubes!  Had a few pairs some time ago.


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## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> Also selling my Uber Bifrost.   $300


 

 Wh...what???  What are going to replace it with?


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## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Wh...what???  What are going to replace it with?


 
  I ordered a Gungnir today.  Jason let me audition one with my amp at the meet.
  There was an amazing difference.
   
  So I ordered XLR jacks and XLR plugs for the 300B
   
  I have enough 20g a. silver wire left to make set of 6 ft. interconnects..
   
  Not 2 minutes ago, "Greed" purchased the Bifrost.
   
  I've had a lot of gear juggling going on.


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## rb2013

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I ordered a Gungnir today.  Jason let me audition one with my amp at the meet.
> There was an amazing difference.
> 
> So I ordered XLR jacks and XLR plugs for the 300B
> ...


 
  Yes - my wish list is a Bifrost with tube output (6922s maybe), linear PS, and transformer coupling (but I'd settle for cap coupling).
   
  Imagine the tube rolling possibilities!  The cross breed synergies...makes my finger burn just thinking about it!


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## rb2013

One note of caution to those new to tubes and take this from a guy who has played with these for 15 yrs. IMHO anybody paying over a $100/pr for these is nuts. They can and will fail...just a matter of time. They're like a lightbulb burning (feel the heat). When you buy a used tube you have no idea how many hours are on it - testing does not give you an age. Like a lightbulb - bright one day - burned out the next. I still remember when a $100 Seimens CCa burned out, I was really pissed. Worse on a matched pair, it makes the other tube almost worthless.

Unlike a cable, amp, headphone these have a finite life.

Just a heads up.


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## sceleratus

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> One note of caution to those new to tubes and take this from a guy who has played with these for 15 yrs. IMHO anybody paying over a $100/pr for these is nuts. They can and will fail...just a matter of time. They're like a lightbulb burning (feel the heat). When you buy a used tube you have no idea how many hours are on it - testing does not give you an age. Like a lightbulb - bright one day - burned out the next. I still remember when a $100 Seimens CCa burned out, I was really pissed. Worse on a matched pair, it makes the other tube almost worthless.
> 
> Unlike a cable, amp, headphone these have a finite life.
> 
> Just a heads up.


 
  Just a Heads Up.
   
  You have just insulted a whole lot of folks on this thread that regularly spend more than $100 for valves.


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## GoldfishX

Finally decided on these guys from audiotubes.com:
   
  E88CC / 6922(premium 6DJ8) Amperex PQ orange label USA made, gold pins.MATCHED PAIR
   
  E88CC / 6922 Siemens, West Germany made, A-Frame Getter style, gold pins.MATCHED PAIRS
   
  So, one warm, one neutral, two known brands. 5 different headphones to try out on each pair with a good mix of sound signatures (AD2000x, HD800, DT660, Denon AHD2000 and SR80). Will report back when I get some time to play around with them. In the meantime, am trying to put as many hours as possible on the stock GE's to get this Lyr properly burned in. Probably up to around 60-70 hours so far, will be close to 100 by the time the new tubes come in...ways to go.
   
  And yeah, I figure tube life is finite. I just figure it's the cost of doing business. I opted for the 6922's because I read they are supposed to last longer than the 6DJ8's (something like 10,000 hours vs 5000?) Originally was going to get the Siemens, then a 6DJ8 Amperex and a 6DJ8 Mullard, but I figure I'll skip the Mullard for now and go for the higher end Amperex. I'll have my hands full with 2 sets of tubes, 3 would be too much for right now.


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## Fearless1

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> . I still remember when a $100 Seimens CCa burned out, I was really pissed. Worse on a matched pair, it makes the other tube almost worthless.


 
   I dropped  one of a matched Siemens & Halske CCa's from  1960 on my granite countertop while I was opening the package(after waiting around a month for it to come from Germany). It was also a sad day, but at least you had some time with yours.


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## rb2013

sceleratus said:


> Just a Heads Up.
> 
> You have just insulted a who lot of folks on this thread that regularly spend more than $100 for valves.




I did say IMHO...do you refute these do die eventually. Spend your money as you see fit you know what you're getting into.

This was just some real info for those new to tubes dumping hundreds of dollars on these 'limited life' things.

I apologize to anyone offended by the truth.


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## Zuckfun

rb2013 said:


> I did say IMHO...do you refute these do die eventually. Spend your money as you see fit you know what you're getting into.
> 
> This was just some real info for those new to tubes dumping hundreds of dollars on these 'limited life' things.
> 
> I apologize to anyone offended by the truth.


No offense taken here. Every car will die eventually, and how many thousands do we spend on these. My tubes sound so much better than my car


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## rb2013

fearless1 said:


> I dropped  one of a matched Siemens & Halske CCa's from  1960 on my granite countertop while I was opening the package(after waiting around a month for it to come from Germany). It was also a sad day, but at least you had some time with yours.




I feel your pain. Mine just went poof one day. Same has happened for great a Philips Miniwatt I had - a month after I bought them.

I've owned every tube under the sun 12ax7s, 12au7s, 6sn7s, 300bs, kt88s, 6dr7s, and too many 6922s to count. Power tubes are the worst the 300b, 211, 2a3s kt88s, etc
Small signal tubes at least you have a fighting chance.

These were rated 7,000 to 10,000 when they were brand new. Now most of these are 40yrs old and have had how much playing time on them?

Maybe I'm just shock at the prices these are going for these days - I mean $500 for real Siemens Gray CCas - give me a break.

I absolutely love the way tubes sound but there has to be some reasonableness about this.


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## sceleratus

rb2013 said:


> I did say IMHO...do you refute these do die eventually. Spend your money as you see fit you know what you're getting into.
> 
> This was just some real info for those new to tubes dumping hundreds of dollars on these 'limited life' things.
> 
> I apologize to anyone offended by the truth.




So I would only be 70% "nuts" if I bought a set of tubes for $70?
Like say a pair of 75' Voskhod's ?
That you happen to be selling.
But I'd be in real trouble if I bought 2 sets.
Let's keep the comment directed at components.... Not the "anybody.... Is nuts that..."

So first you play the IMHO card... but you finish with "The Truth" O' oracle of all things electronics, guiding those "new to tubes" into affordable Russian tubes that..... Wait, I sell on this thread daily.


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## Overwerk

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> I did say IMHO...do you refute these do die eventually. Spend your money as you see fit you know what you're getting into.
> 
> This was just some real info for those new to tubes dumping hundreds of dollars on these 'limited life' things.
> 
> I apologize to anyone offended by the truth.


 
  aren't these tubes supposed to last at least 5k hours? how are you going to run out of that if you have been rolling tubes all the time? if you are rolling tubes how can you possibly be sticking to just one pair for several years of constant listening?


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## Overwerk

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> So I would only be 70% "nuts" if I bought a set of tubes for $70?
> Like say a pair of 75' Voskhod's ?
> That you happen to be selling.
> But I'd be in real trouble if I bought 2 sets.
> ...


 
  he has a point tho, there is a reason I only buy stuff that are bang for bucks like many people that are not impulsive and mindless beings cashing out a huge deal of money just because they are told it is or they are told to get the best, and "you get what you pay for"
  even if he is selling out his voskods like he has been doing before going on about why 100+ tubes are waste of money, I'd buy a voskod than a cca any day if they sound 60-90% of the cca, cus they are like 10% the price
   
  and if you can't scale quality, why can people be allowed to scale price so high? just because the voodoo juice is supposed to be highly sought after and highly precious, more precious than a reasonable --oh wait i already spent more than what cca cost
   
  acutally if the good stuff is really good, then it really makes me curious why they who regard them as voodoo can let go of them. At a high price yes, but then they have to hype it up so --i mean how many people do that? not a lot, even if a lot of people buy tubes. There are only a handful of elite tube guys and they can't just dictate what the community thinks or hears


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## GoldfishX

Would this be a good time to suggest a reboot for this thread? Almost 9000 posts, would be nice to have like a compilation of people's findings or something like that on post 1.


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## rb2013

Put away the bics...this is it. I want to apologize to each and everyone of you for this rant. I want you to know I tried, I really tried. I've been doing this for a very long time. My patience for some here has worn out. Sorry to the rest of you.

Truths IMHO: this lyr amp is great, it punchs well over it weight limit. The Voskhod '70s are amazing tubes (not selling anything here), but there are other great tubes as well. And you don't have to spend $200 for them. 
From the heart Enjoy and have fun. Bye.


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## ckc527

Rest in peace my friend ...



ckc


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## Currawong

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> Would this be a good time to suggest a reboot for this thread? Almost 9000 posts, would be nice to have like a compilation of people's findings or something like that on post 1.


 
   
  Though I've deleted a couple of pages of the bickering, I reckon you should start a new thread and update the first (and/or a wiki/article) in this manner, so I'm going to leave it locked.
  Once you've created a new thread, PM me the URL and I'll add it here.


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## Currawong

New thread:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers


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