# Meridian Prime Headphone Amplifier Review



## jude

Written by Jude Mansilla
  
  
 The name "Meridian" commands the utmost respect with many longtime hi-fi enthusiasts, myself included. It's a storied name, the maker of components that have been on the shelves (and in the dreams) of many an audiophile (again, myself included). If you're not a longtime audio nut, then perhaps you aren't familiar with a few of the many achievements that have made this UK company--founded in 1977 by Bob Stuart and Allen Boothroyd--one of the most celebrated audio brands:
  

*1983:* The first audiophile CD player (the Meridian MCD)
*1985:* World's first CD transport and DAC (Meridian 200/203)
*1989:* World's first digital active loudspeaker (Meridian D600)
*1991:* World's first DSP active loudspeaker (Meridian DSP6000)
*1994:* World's first digital surround processor (Meridian 565)
*1997:* Meridian launches MLP Lossless decoding, which was subsequently mandated for DVD-Audio, and later BluRay discs.
*2005:* Meridian introduces the "apodising filter" to the industry with the Meridian 808.2. ("Apodising filter" is Meridian's name for their method of minimum-phase digital filtering.)
  
 Say "digital audio," and a few companies come to my mind immediately--Meridian is usually the first. You can imagine, then, why I was so excited when I found out earlier this year that Meridian was entering our space with *the Meridian Explorer*, their pocket-sized USB DAC and headphone amp. Their affordable little Explorer has become one of my favorite USB DAC/amps for on-the-go use. However, as well received as the Explorer has been, it might have seemed to some that perhaps Meridian was just dipping their feet in our water with it, as Meridian isn't exactly known for making components that most would consider affordable.
  
 As it turns out, though, Meridian already had more planned, and today they're launching something that is more in line with what the Meridian aficionados among us would probably have expected from Meridian entering the world of Head-Fi--something more high-end, something _very_ Meridian, something called the Meridian Prime Headphone Amplifier. The Meridian Prime is certainly more than just a headphone amplifier--it's a Meridian DAC with a Meridian headphone amp, housed in an elegant, compact desktop chassis.
  
 Just one look, one touch, and it's clear Meridian has sweated the details with the Prime. The chassis is metal, with a dual-skinned design of interlocking extrusions, which helps combat interference. To help give the Prime its sleek look, Allen Boothroyd came up with a hidden magnetic release system so that there are essentially no screws visible on the sleek chassis (at least not without flipping it upside down, or looking at the rear panel). The volume knob is coupled to the potentiometer via a flexible coupling, to reduce mechanically induced noise.
  

  
  
 The Prime's DAC is 24-bit / 192kHz capable, including 88.2 and 176.4, with its dual oscillators (based on those found in Meridian's flagship Reference Series components). The Prime's USB input (its only digital input) is async, and upsamples 44.1/48kHz sources to 88.2/96kHz prior to the DAC. The Prime also uses Meridian's Apodising filter, which, among other things, is designed to eliminate digital pre-ringing, for more natural sound. Their Apodising filter was first introduced in what was then their flagship 808.2, and is thought by many to be one of the key reasons for the many plaudits hurled in the direction of Meridian's flagship players.
  
 The Prime also has two sets of analog inputs, in the form of one 3.5mm stereo mini plug and one pair of RCA inputs. Rear panel outputs include one pair of RCA preamp outputs, and this pre-out can be disabled with one touch for dedicated headphone listening.
  
 The headphone outputs on the front panel consist of two 1/4" stereo outputs and one 3.5mm (mini plug) jack. Each of the 1/4" stereo jacks is rated for maximum output of 3V RMS off load, THD below 0.002%, power output 250mW up to 42Ω, with output impedance <100mΩ (or less than 0.1Ω). The 3.5mm jack is rated for maximum output of 3V RMS off load, THD below 0.002%, with output impedance of 2.2Ω. The 3.5mm jack is intended for use with in-ears and other sensitive headphones.
  
 Yes, the specifications are impressive, and I'm happy to report that the Meridian Prime's sound is every bit as excellent as its specs. I've used the Prime as a DAC to feed an Apex Audio Teton, as well as a Ray Samuels Audio Apache, and, as a DAC, the Prime is pure Meridian, which is to say it is, for my preferences, a wonderful combination of superb resolution that isn't at all compromised by the ease and smoothness that I've come to expect from Meridian since falling in love with the venerable Meridian 508.24 many years ago. Feed well-recorded high-resolution recordings to the Prime, and it only gets better. How thrilled am I that there's a Meridian DAC that sounds like a Meridian player in a compact chassis on my desk? Don't get me started--I love it!
  
 I'm also happy to report that when used as an all-in-one (a DAC/amp combo), the Prime's headphone amp passes the Prime DAC's wonderful sound very transparently, and is able to drive just about anything I'd reasonably want to drive with it. I've so far used the Bowers & Wilkins P7, Sennheiser HD 800, MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, Abyss AB-1266, HiFiMAN HE-6, and Audeze LCD-X with it, and it was able to drive them all. I wouldn't recommend it as the primary amp for those whose primary headphones are the HE-6 or the Abyss, but either can be driven by the Prime in a pinch. To my ears, though, of those over-ear headphones I've tried with it so far, the Prime paired most synergistically with the Alpha Dog and the LCD-X. In terms of noise floor, the Prime is completely silent with every over-ear headphone I've tried with it so far. I'll be using more headphones with it over time.
  
 With its low output impedance headphone outs and low noise floor, the Prime begged to be tried with some of my most sensitive in-ear monitors, and the Prime did very well with the Westone ES5 and JH Audio JH13 Pro I tried it with. I'd suggest trying both headphone outputs with your multi-armature IEMs, as the output impedance of the 1/4” jacks is a bit lower. The Prime's noise floor with these very sensitive IEMs is _very_ low, though not quite as low as the absolutely dead silent Benchmark DAC2 HGC. That said, relative to the Benchmark, I prefer the sound of the Meridian Prime—-it's more smooth, more natural, and yet I don't feel like I'm giving up any of the detail in switching from the Benchmark to the Meridian.
  
 The Meridian Prime's headphone amp also has something they call "Analogue Spatial Processing (ASP)," which Meridian claims can provide "outside the head" listening. ASP is essentially a variable analog crossfeed circuit. I'm actually a big fan of well-implemented crossfeed, and I wish more DAC/amps included it. The Prime's ASP is very effective (though it certainly isn't "out of the head" for me), with two levels of crossfeed, and seems to me to impart little to no effect on tonal balance. As I switch through the various ASP modes while playing (off, 1 and 2), the image shifts, but, again, the tonal balance remains true.
  
 I've been obsessing again over Miles Davis' _Kind of Blue_ with *the latest 24-bit/192kHz stereo remaster of it*, and the Meridian Prime really takes full advantage of this latest remaster's resolution and imaging. I even find myself engaging Meridian ASP setting 1 from time to time to bring more coherence to the image--for example, ASP helps to reunite Wynton Kelly's piano with the rest of the band on "Freddie Freeloader," so that he's not so lonely way out left. Exploring the new _Kind of Blue_ remaster through the Prime has been a fun way to re-discover an album that feels new again to me.
  
 The Meridian Prime Headphone Amplifier is priced at $2000.00, and comes stock with a wall power supply--this is the only configuration I've heard so far, and have absolutely no problem recommending it at the price. Meridian will also soon be releasing a substantial power supply upgrade option that will come in a matching chassis, and will be priced at $1250.00. This upgraded power supply is called the Meridian Prime Power Supply, and I haven't heard it yet (but will soon).
  
 Anyway, let's add another Meridian milestone to those few I mentioned above:
  

*2013:* Meridian launches the Meridian Prime Headphone Amplifier, and delivers true Meridian sound in an all-in-one, compact desktop headphone rig.
  
  
 
 
 
 
 
  
*TTVJ Audio* (a Head-Fi sponsor) will be offering the Meridian Prime right away, so contact Todd (at TTVJ Audio) to order. (And let us know what you think when you do.) *Click here* to go directly to the Meridian Prime on TTVJ Audio's site.


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## HiFiGuy528

First!
  
 Jude is DA MAN!!!!!   I just got the press release, but Jude has the review.  LOL.....


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## Androb

Nice review! Didn't expect that little thing to run he-6 well.


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## Audiowood

Oh wow.. finally Meridian has got an amp for headphones. I am very interested, especially on the "Analogue Spatial Processing (ASP)".


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## JeffA

Any word on whether the Meridian can take a digital signal direclty from an iPod, iPhone, or iPad?


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## warrenpchi

hifiguy528 said:


> Jude is DA MAN!!!!!   I just got the press release, but Jude has the review.  LOL.....


 
  
 You haven't learn this by now?  At the bottom of every press release, there is microprint that says "Jude has it."


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## Ross

Nice review, Jude. You ran the DAC section into an RSA Apache, but made no comment on how the amp section of the Prime compares with the Apache. Would you say that the Apache (which is a much more expensive two-box amp) still outperforms the amp section of the Prime?


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## Clemmaster

250mW can drive the HE-6? That some serious news here! Come'on...
  
 Why the heck did they go with a mini-B USB plug? It's not nice for those who spent mega-bucks on standard USB cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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## Maxvla

Hope it sounds better than it looks. An ugly duckling for sure.


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## jude

ross said:


> Nice review, Jude. You ran the DAC section into an RSA Apache, but made no comment on how the amp section of the Prime compares with the Apache. Would you say that the Apache (which is a much more expensive two-box amp) still outperforms the amp section of the Prime?


 
  
 Ross, first of all, on those rare occasions you post, waves of nostalgia wash over me, man. I hope you're well.
  
 I didn't do any head-to-head comparisons with the Apache, but I will. The old Apache (practically vintage, by Head-Fi standards) remains one of my favorite amps for several of my headphones (my Audezes included)--I think the Meridian would have a rather substantial challenge on its hands.
  
 Again, though, I'll do some head-to-head, after I'm done working on the holiday update to the Head-Fi Buying Guide.
  


clemmaster said:


> 250mW can drive the HE-6? That some serious news here! Come'on...
> 
> Why the heck did they go with a mini-B USB plug? It's not nice for those who spent mega-bucks on standard USB cables
> 
> ...


 
  
 With most of my Chesky and Reference Recordings albums (most of which have pretty wide dynamic range), I'm at or near the top of the volume range. Listening to Alicia Keys just now, I'm not near the Prime volume knob's maximum, as it's simply too loud for me.
  
 Like I said, in a pinch, it'll drive the Abyss AB-1266 and HE-6. Is it my first recommendation for someone who has either of those as his primary headphones? No.
  
 For what it's worth, though, for what it can do with the HE-6, it does it surprisingly well.
  
 As for the mini-B USB plug: I agree. That's not my favorite thing about the Prime, and I'm not sure why they made that choice. That said, I have so many mini USB cables around here (we have a bin full of them at the office) that I didn't give it too much thought.
  


maxvla said:


> Hope it sounds better than it looks. An ugly duckling for sure.


  

 LOL. Well, we certainly don't agree there. I love its look. Maybe my photos (above) don't do it justice, but it's clean, elegant, compact. I like its unusual volume knob, the shape of which I've seen on other Meridian products. The Prime essentially looks like a miniaturized Meridian component to me.
  
 That said, even if you don't like it looks, it's certainly worth an audition on sound alone.


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## Ross

jude said:


> Ross, first of all, on those rare occasions you post, waves of nostalgia wash over me, man. I hope you're well.
> 
> I didn't do any head-to-head comparisons with the Apache, but I will. The old Apache (practically vintage, by Head-Fi standards) remains one of my favorite amps for several of my headphones (my Audezes included)--I think the Meridian would have a rather substantial challenge on its hands.
> 
> Again, though, I'll do some head-to-head, after I'm done working on the holiday update to the Head-Fi Buying Guide.


 
 Hi Jude. Yes, things are fine, I just wish I had more time to post more often and to use all the gear I've accumulated.
  
 I really like the Meridian stuff as well. I also had the 508.24, and the 506 before that, and now have a Meridian Director in my bedroom system. I will be interested to hear the comparison with the Apache, since I love this amp (it replaced the B-52 which is still in my sig below) and have never heard anything better. I'm guessing a Director with Apache will be better than the Prime, but it will be interesting to hear the results of the comparison.


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## koiloco

androb said:


> Nice review! Didn't expect that little thing to run he-6 well.


 
 Honestly doubt that.  But again, my Fiio E17 can drive the HE-6 too in a pinch if I have nothing else to work with.  Music is music sometimes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 But how wonderful to hear that it pairs very well with the new AD and LCD-X...


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## x838nwy

A very serious price for what it is. Considering the competition it had better be incredible. Would love a comparo vs. The upcoming Schiit TOTL stack.


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## audionewbi

Am I the only one who is really put off about the $2000 dollar amp that comes with a $1250 _optional_ PSU which is not really optional if you know what I mean?


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## smial1966

Yes me too. I was hoping for a more wallet friendly $800 or so. We can all surmise that the optional PSU is a necessity to improve the sonics. 
  
 Quote:


audionewbi said:


> Am I the only one who is really put off about the $2000 dollar amp that comes with a $1250 _optional_ PSU which is not really optional if you know what I mean?


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## gevorg

Interesting review but... ALPS volume pot on a $2000 amp? LOL!


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## Canadian411

maxvla said:


> Hope it sounds better than it looks. An ugly duckling for sure.


 
 Ya my first impression was, WHAT THE,... so ugly.


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## Canadian411

koiloco said:


> Honestly doubt that.  But again, my Fiio E17 can drive the HE-6 too in a pinch if I have nothing else to work with.  Music is music sometimes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I agree.  What does that mean by DRIVING the headphone ? my ipod nano can drive HE6, LCD2 and HD800.  As long as I don't hear it loud, I connect and I hear the music, period.
  
 To be honest, I am little tired of searching the right amp that can drive Planar and high ohm dynamic headphones,  I was fooled by the SR71B portable amp that can drive LCD2/HD650 etc, and Burson 160DS can drive all HE6, LCD2, HD800.  IMO absolutely NOT !, non of these amps can produce loud and clear sound IMO, especially portable amps ? forget it, you might be able to drive IEM nicely but not the headphones.
  
 I am not willing to spend $5k+ on amps, better invest that kind of money into real estate IMO lol..


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## PAM005

Having already seen some internal pics of this amp, I can't believe pricetag of this amp. Normally I don't feel need to respond at productintro's before having heard myself, but this time I really doubt there's a (big) market for this amp (with this pricing) compared to other i.m.o. more interesting products already availlable. See review and internal pics.
  
http://andreweverard.com/2013/11/21/review-meridian-prime-headphone-amplifier-much-more-than-the-name-suggests/
  
 Not trying to offend designers of Meridian, but I believe they should have designed a more "High-End amp with look & feel" matching this pricetag! But as said this is only my personal opinion. Maybe I'm wrong...


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## bIack

canadian411 said:


> I agree.  What does that mean by DRIVING the headphone ? my ipod nano can drive HE6, LCD2 and HD800.  As long as I don't hear it loud, I connect and I hear the music, period.
> 
> To be honest, I am little tired of searching the right amp that can drive Planar and high ohm dynamic headphones,  I was fooled by the SR71B portable amp that can drive LCD2/HD650 etc, and Burson 160DS can drive all HE6, LCD2, HD800.  IMO absolutely NOT !, non of these amps can produce loud and clear sound IMO, especially portable amps ? forget it, you might be able to drive IEM nicely but not the headphones.
> 
> I am not willing to spend $5k+ on amps, better invest that kind of money into real estate IMO lol..


 
 I am using a RSA Intruder to drive LCD 2 rev 2 and LCD 3. They do not sound like from the Burson Conductor but it's PRETTY DAMN CLOSE! And this is single ended. I haven't yet tried balanced out ...
  
 What did you miss when listening to LCD2 out of SR71B that makes you say "absolutely NOT"  ?


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## kurochin

audionewbi said:


> Am I the only one who is really put off about the $2000 dollar amp that comes with a $1250 _optional_ PSU which is not really optional if you know what I mean?


 

 It wouldn't be a Meridian if it didn't have a snob-friendly MSRP attached to it. They probably weren't happy with too many regular peasants buying the Explorer model.


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## theebag

How does it stack up against other offerings ? Basically this is exactly what I’m looking for – a high quality all in one unit. How would it compare to separate options like V200/V800 or DA8/A18 combinations ?


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## koiloco

kurochin said:


> It wouldn't be a Meridian if it didn't have a snob-friendly MSRP attached to it. They probably weren't happy with too many regular peasants buying the Explorer model.


 

 With the internet/forums and so much shared experience among customers, that day is coming to an end pretty soon.  There will still people who are willing to pay for the name regardless whether they can really afford the price and once they have done so, they will die defending their decisions and will always think what they own/paid for is the best.  
 Not saying Meridian products are not great in anyway but their prices are often a little harsh   for the performance level.  These days, there are a lot of other options which often are much less.


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## mikemercer

GREAT job @jude!!
  
 Glad to see Meridian delivered here.
 I enjoyed the Explorer, but it didn't WOW me like the HRT microStreamer.
  
 I look forward to hearing this piece!!


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## Chris J

audionewbi said:


> Am I the only one who is really put off about the $2000 dollar amp that comes with a $1250 _optional_ PSU which is not really optional if you know what I mean?



 


Well it's a bit off putting to see that it is USB digital only and SE headphone jack only for 2 Gs.
Just my humble opinion, but for that much money I would at least expect to see a SPDIF input, or maybe two.

But I do think it looks very nice.


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## esimms86

I personally don't understand the criticisms regarding the price. For one, I wouldn't expect Meridian to enter the headphone amp/DAC market with anything other than a major splash. Second, their products are always well engineered. Third, their products, the Explorer aside, are never inexpensive. Wanna buy a Soolos? And how much would a similar product from McIntosh Labs sell for? Fourth, I believe that it is good of them to have the power supply as an optional purchase for those people who feel they don't need it or for people who would rather have the basic unit now and spring for the upgraded PSU later. Fifth, this isn't the only high end amp/DAC that sells in the 3000 to 4000 price range with all the bells and whistles. Heck, there are many revered amps without a DAC component that sell for more than the fully tricked out Meridian.
  
 While I understand that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I don't find the MP to be unattractive. Rather, I like the stackable nature of the amp/DAC and PSU, kind of like the PS Audio Perfectwave DAC and Transport, the Auralic Vega and Taurus, or the mac mini with 3rd party stackable hard drives.
  
 Oh, and I love the wordplay on "prime meridian."
  
 Esau


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## Clemmaster

audionewbi said:


> Am I the only one who is really put off about the $2000 dollar amp that comes with a $1250 _optional_ PSU which is not really optional if you know what I mean?


 
  
 You can always go with cheaper alternatives like TeddyPardo, Kingrex or MCRU.
 Merdian's PSU has 4 or 5 12V power outlets that can power other meridian products altogether.


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## audionewbi

As a consumer I like to see products where the optional accessories are things where it does not add to its performance, I like to know that the product I am buying is as good as it could possibly be. If companies feel that the PSU will improve the sound to the next level than include in the package as an standard unit. As a consumer I think it is important to voice your concerns, if you tolerate too many things change will likely not come about. 

I for one at that price tag would have a different standard for what I have with some thing under 1K.


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## Llloyd

nice review except to giving props to the kind of blue remaster . I've yet to hear a remaster that I actually enjoyed over the original, especially with classic albums such as kind of blue. That remaster really does not sound good to me and so I must offer an anti recommendation. There are imperfections in the original recording but it is what it is, a master will not fix those. What that remaster is trying to mask ends up taking away that beautiful, sparse sound of the original recording. Sorry to get off track 
  
 All these reviews already with lcd-x... man I want to hear one.


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## pytter

Nice review Jude. It would be nice to see a comparison with the Naim DAC-V1 another venerable British brand and at the same price point.


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## jude

audionewbi said:


> As a consumer I like to see products where the optional accessories are things where it does not add to its performance, I like to know that the product I am buying is as good as it could possibly be. If companies feel that the PSU will improve the sound to the next level than include in the package as an standard unit. As a consumer I think it is important to voice your concerns, if you tolerate too many things change will likely not come about.
> 
> I for one at that price tag would have a different standard for what I have with some thing under 1K.


 
  
 If you want Meridian "as good as it could possibly be," I think it'll cost you around $22,000 for the Meridian 808v5. As for me, I'm glad they have a more affordable option in the Prime, and that I might be able to further improve its performance, _if I want to_, by spending another $1250 for the power supply.
  
 For some, the Prime might be out of reach if the only way it could be bought was with the fancier power supply. I like that it's a choice.
  
 That said, I'll be giving that Prime power supply upgrade a whirl soon. Chris Connaker at ComputerAudiophile seemed to think the upgraded power supply was worth it. I'll let you know if I agree, before long.
  


pytter said:


> Nice review Jude. It would be nice to see a comparison with the Naim DAC-V1 another venerable British brand and at the same price point.


 
  
 I happen to have the Naim DAC-V1 here, to evaluate for possible inclusion in the holiday update to the buying guide. It might be a little while before I can get to a direct comparison, but I'll see what I can do (after the guide update is done).


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## koiloco

^Jude, thx for the review and as a member of the community, I also wanna thank you for a wonderful forum where we can discuss/argue/share our viewpoints/experience honestly and openly.  Sometimes, it's hard to keep interests clearly and not conflicting but I personally hope that as someone who has a lot more access to equipments new/old, affordable/expensive, you always give us your honest impression/evaluation so we all can look at/use as a reference base on which we decide how to spend our hard-earned $.  Again, Thx.


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## Asr

audionewbi said:


> Am I the only one who is really put off about the $2000 dollar amp that comes with a $1250 _optional_ PSU which is not really optional if you know what I mean?


 
  
 I feel the same way, but more than that, it's a $2K amp that comes with a "wall power supply"? Seriously?? For $2K I'd expect an amp with a proper internal power supply using a toroidal transformer, not some type of wall-wart. And the internal pic from that article linked earlier shows that it uses an op-amp to drive the output stage. Another "seriously?!" on that. For the price they couldn't use a discrete solution?
  
 I think the mere fact that the Meridian Web site lacks any tech specs of the amp speaks for itself, it's all just a bunch of marketing-speak. And 250mW @ 32 Ohms as mentioned in Jude's post is pathetic. That's only going to effectively drive most standard low-impedance sensitive headphones and not much else.
  
 And who named this thing Prime? The entire first page of Google results on "Meridian Prime" is just a bunch of geography-related results on the prime meridian, nothing remotely audio-related.
  
 For $1K more (or less with that optional PSU), one could buy the HeadAmp GS-X MK2 which is fully balanced / dual mono into separate amp & PSU chassis, discrete, and has ~8X the output power.


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## koiloco

asr said:


> I feel the same way, but more than that, it's a $2K amp that comes with a "wall power supply"? Seriously?? For $2K I'd expect an amp with a proper internal power supply using a toroidal transformer, not some type of wall-wart. And the internal pic from that article linked earlier shows that it uses an op-amp to drive the output stage. Another "seriously?!" on that. For the price they couldn't use a discrete solution?
> 
> I think the mere fact that the Meridian Web site lacks any tech specs of the amp speaks for itself, it's all just a bunch of marketing-speak. And 250mW @ 32 Ohms as mentioned in Jude's post is pathetic. That's only going to effectively drive most standard low-impedance sensitive headphones and not much else.
> 
> ...


 
 Hey hey, take it easy Asr.  You know it already costs $1500 just to put the name "Meridian" on a product.  That only leaves $500 for actual product development. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  wait wait, my equation is messed up cuz I can't figure out why Emotiva Mini-X is only $160.


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## dcginc

asr said:


> And who named this thing Prime? The entire first page of Google results on "Meridian Prime" is just a bunch of geography-related results on the prime meridian, nothing remotely audio-related.




The company is named for exactly what you found... I've owned over 15 Meridian components for the past 20 yrs starting w the 200 series kit....(which is still used daily-including my M 20 speakers that I'm listening to now)

But as an owner of Schitt Gun/Mjo fully balanced system, why no balanced output on the Prime?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_meridian_(Greenwich)


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## PhilW

I have been listening now to this Amplifier (without Prime Power) for the last 2 days and I have to say that irrespective of the internals of this unit and how it "should" sound the Meridian Prime is a very capable headphone amplifier. What I love about the amplifier is that it is a complete joy to listen to, musical and yet detailed and very dynamic. I am currently only running it from my desktop over USB to a pair of B&W P7, but have fluctuated between those and the Beyerdynamic T1 and HD800. The Prime easily gives these headphones what they require and offers exceptional levels of detail and composure even at very high volumes. I found myself able to turn the volume pot up and up and up without getting the feeling that it was ever too loud, and I love that about PMC/Bryston rigs I set up at work (I call it PMC Ear).
  
 I definitely recommend listening to it prior to making assumptions.


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## smial1966

Very interesting perspective from someone who has actually listened to the Prime, so thanks very much for your input. Incidentally, is there any chance of you cracking the case open and seeing what opamp is used and whether it's socketed or soldered? If it's socketed and compatible with the MUSES02 I'm thinking of opamp rolling. 
  
 Quote:


philw said:


> I have been listening now to this Amplifier (without Prime Power) for the last 2 days and I have to say that irrespective of the internals of this unit and how it "should" sound the Meridian Prime is a very capable headphone amplifier. What I love about the amplifier is that it is a complete joy to listen to, musical and yet detailed and very dynamic. I am currently only running it from my desktop over USB to a pair of B&W P7, but have fluctuated between those and the Beyerdynamic T1 and HD800. The Prime easily gives these headphones what they require and offers exceptional levels of detail and composure even at very high volumes. I found myself able to turn the volume pot up and up and up without getting the feeling that it was ever too loud, and I love that about PMC/Bryston rigs I set up at work (I call it PMC Ear).
> 
> I definitely recommend listening to it prior to making assumptions.


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## GaryB

Can anyone who is using this amp comment on whether the rear-panel analogue outputs are fixed or variable?
  
 Thanks.


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## jude

garyb said:


> Can anyone who is using this amp comment on whether the rear-panel analogue outputs are fixed or variable?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Hi Gary, the rear RCA output is variable.


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## GaryB

Thanks, jude.  I figured as much, but it's not specifically mentioned in any of Meridian's published info or in any of the early reviews.


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## JWahl

I can't help with agree with some of the others about the price.  Although I had similar reservations about the Resonessence Concero from appearance of seemingly humble components and was blown away by it.  I think the newer Concero HP as an all in one could likely outperform this new Meridian and it sells for about $800.  Heck, even the Wadia 121 is a decent unit at $1300 from a normally mega expensive brand despite being plagued with bugs.  Not to mention the new Light Harmonic Geek Pulse that's going for $350 for backers and $500 at retail.  They are going to have tough competition.


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## Asr

koiloco said:


> Hey hey, take it easy Asr.  You know it already costs $1500 just to put the name "Meridian" on a product.  That only leaves $500 for actual product development.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Heh, well the execution of the amp makes it look like a higher-up at Meridian thought: "Hey let's make a headphone amp! But let's make it as cheaply as possible and sell it for as much as possible!"
  


philw said:


> I have been listening now to this Amplifier (without Prime Power) for the last 2 days and I have to say that irrespective of the internals of this unit and how it "should" sound the Meridian Prime is a very capable headphone amplifier. What I love about the amplifier is that it is a complete joy to listen to, musical and yet detailed and very dynamic. I am currently only running it from my desktop over USB to a pair of B&W P7, but have fluctuated between those and the Beyerdynamic T1 and HD800. The Prime easily gives these headphones what they require and offers exceptional levels of detail and composure even at very high volumes. I found myself able to turn the volume pot up and up and up without getting the feeling that it was ever too loud, and I love that about PMC/Bryston rigs I set up at work (I call it PMC Ear).
> I definitely recommend listening to it prior to making assumptions.


 
  
 I see that you're an MOT who sells the Meridian Prime, along with those headphones you mentioned too. So can anyone legitimately take anything away from your post? You might want to read the MOT posting rules on Head-Fi too: http://head-fi.org/a/terms-of-service


----------



## koiloco

asr said:


> Heh, well the execution of the amp makes it look like a higher-up at Meridian thought: "Hey let's make a headphone amp! But let's make it as cheaply as possible and sell it for as much as possible!"
> 
> 
> I see that you're an MOT who sells the Meridian Prime, along with those headphones you mentioned too. So can anyone legitimately take anything away from your post? You might want to read the MOT posting rules on Head-Fi too: http://head-fi.org/a/terms-of-service


 
 +1.  Well said on both points.


----------



## purk

I'm with ASR here.  $2000 op-amp driven output stage with a wallwart PSU?  Wow...every manufacturer is cashing here.


----------



## gevorg

From CA review:


----------



## nicoch46

Crazy cheaper stuff  sell at high price by marketing using is good name !!
  
 This dac  use  the  Crystal/cirrus logic cs4353  cheaper  consumer chip dac , you can found on Samsung BD-C6900 blu ray and probabily in ps3 slim..
 this chip  don' t have the connection for external digital filter ie no meridia proprietary sorftware for apodizing filter!! he use  apodizing in hardware by Crystal/cirrus logic
 plus the head amp is an OPA  the only good ones is the usb ....
 you can buy the cs4353 at digikey for 1,4 €=1$ .
 At last with that price you can buy an unitiqute  that have power amp too


----------



## koiloco

nicoch46 said:


> Crazy cheaper stuff  sell at high price by marketing using is good name !!
> 
> This dac  use  the  Crystal/cirrus logic cs4353  cheaper  consumer chip dac , you can found on Samsung BD-C6900 blu ray and probabily in ps3 slim..
> this chip  don' t have the connection for external digital filter ie no meridia proprietary sorftware for apodizing filter!! he use  apodizing in hardware by Crystal/cirrus logic
> ...


 

 +1.  It's amazing what kind of product info/design/build we can get our hands on from the internet these days.  That's why I believe "the day manufacturers can just stuff anything inside their products and market/sell for $$$$ solely based on their brandnames/reputation is coming to an end"  However, there are still people who are very willing to spend their $ blindly.


----------



## telecaster

Don't expect ANY chip to be considered the absolute best and that's before implementation is taken into account. And Meridian is not using the filter part, they actually do the filtering and no it's not free.
 And while I prefer discrete, a good OPA is perfectly adequate while a ****ty discrete implementation is not.


----------



## Hooster

jude said:


> The headphone outputs on the front panel consist of two 1/4" stereo outputs and one 3.5mm (mini plug) jack. Each of the 1/4" stereo jacks is rated for maximum output of 3V RMS off load, THD below 0.002%, power output 250mW up to 42Ω, with output impedance <100mΩ (or less than 0.1Ω). The 3.5mm jack is rated for maximum output of 3V RMS off load, THD below 0.002%, with output impedance of 2.2Ω. The 3.5mm jack is intended for use with in-ears and other sensitive headphones.
> 
> The Meridian Prime Headphone Amplifier is priced at $2000.00, and comes stock with a wall power supply--this is the only configuration I've heard so far, and have absolutely no problem recommending it at the price. Meridian will also soon be releasing a substantial power supply upgrade option that will come in a matching chassis, and will be priced at $1250.00. This upgraded power supply is called the Meridian Prime Power Supply, and I haven't heard it yet (but will soon).


 
  
 Is this supposed to be a joke? I have heard of inflation but did the value of money shrink to the extent that all $2000 buys you is a small ugly unit, with a wall wart power supply and a puny power output... it makes 250mW at 42Ohms. I wonder what it will cough out at 600Ohms...
 Meridian then wants to sell you a $1250 power supply! If they can get away with that, then who am I to complain. I would not buy one in a million years and neither would I recommend it to anyone. Even if it sounds great, the price, looks and wall wart make it look absurd.


----------



## purk

telecaster said:


> Don't expect ANY chip to be considered the absolute best and that's before implementation is taken into account. And Meridian is not using the filter part, they actually do the filtering and no it's not free.
> And while I prefer discrete, a good OPA is perfectly adequate while a ****ty discrete implementation is not.


 
  
 On the same token, the best of discrete designs will always sound better than the very best of op-amps ones.


----------



## Currawong

nicoch46 said:


> Crazy cheaper stuff  sell at high price by marketing using is good name !!
> 
> This dac  use  the  Crystal/cirrus logic cs4353  cheaper  consumer chip dac , you can found on Samsung BD-C6900 blu ray and probabily in ps3 slim..
> this chip  don' t have the connection for external digital filter ie no meridia proprietary sorftware for apodizing filter!! he use  apodizing in hardware by Crystal/cirrus logic
> ...


 
  
 That doesn't account for the research and development, set-up, manufacturing, support and other costs. Yes you'll be paying for dealer mark-up, but you're also paying for local support (ie: not having to send it overseas for return or repair) and a quality guarantee. It has always been this way -- DIY is cheapest, because you take full responsibility for the result, followed by the small guys who have somewhat of a lower overhead, then the larger manufacturers, then those with dealer networks. The cost of the physical materials has always been smallest.


----------



## JWahl

currawong said:


> That doesn't account for the research and development, set-up, manufacturing, support and other costs. Yes you'll be paying for dealer mark-up, but you're also paying for local support (ie: not having to send it overseas for return or repair) and a quality guarantee. It has always been this way -- DIY is cheapest, because you take full responsibility for the result, followed by the small guys who have somewhat of a lower overhead, then the larger manufacturers, then those with dealer networks. The cost of the physical materials has always been smallest.


 
 Certainly R&D is a factor.  Like I said in a previous post, I initially balked at the seemingly meager components of the Concero, having been raised in the Audio-GD style mindset of "more is better".  It was hard to believe that a DAC-on-chip with an FPGA added could really be worth $600 but they really put some excellent custom engineering into their upsampling filters and obviously know well how to optimize the Sabre platform.
  
 Even if the sound is in the same league as say, an Eximus DP1 (which I highly doubt), No R&D and part's combo can justify that price IMO.  Especially when competitors are doing more with less.  And even those who generally produce far more expensive equipment.  It really amazes me that Light Harmonic is taking the affordable engineering route with their Geek series.
  
 I think that the Meridian Prime would be fair to sell at maybe $750 plus $500 for power supply and have a chance at competing well with the competition.


----------



## koiloco

jwahl said:


> Certainly R&D is a factor.  Like I said in a previous post, I initially balked at the seemingly meager components, having been raised in the Audio-GD style mindset of "more is better".  It was hard to believe that a DAC-on-chip with an FPGA added could really be worth $600 but they really put some excellent custom engineering into their upsampling filters and obviously know well how to optimize the Sabre platform.
> 
> Even if the sound is in the same league as say, an Eximus DP1 (which I highly doubt), *No R&D and part's combo can justify that price IMO.*  Especially when competitors are doing more with less.  And even those who generally produce far more expensive equipment.  It really amazes me that Light Harmonic is taking the affordable engineering route with their Geek series.
> 
> *I think that the Meridian Prime would be fair to sell at maybe $750 plus $500 for power supply and have a chance at competing well with the competition.*


 
 +1.  You said it well.  Thank you.


----------



## Currawong

JWahl, with the likes of Audio-gd and others, we are truly spoilt.


----------



## JWahl

currawong said:


> JWahl, with the likes of Audio-gd and others, we are truly spoilt.


 
 Very true, it's not that I am implying it will sound bad in any way, just that the competition is very competitive these days.


----------



## koiloco

currawong said:


> JWahl, with the likes of Audio-gd and others, *we are truly spoilt*.


 
 I really like that perspective.  Lucky too, I might add.


----------



## nicoch46

audiolab mdac - arcam irdac are very good dac at right price , prime is a toy not more the 300€ sorry !!!
  
  
 We can buy an real  headamp for 119$  !!! no scuse for ***tty opamp
  

  
 btw If you love the opamp you can always buy a good FiiO


----------



## Chris J

nicoch46 said:


> audiolab mdac - arcam irdac are very good dac at right price , prime is a toy not more the 300€ sorry !!!
> 
> 
> We can buy an real  headamp for 119$  !!! no scuse for ***tty opamp
> ...




Why all the Op Amp hate?

BTW,
FiiO only sounds good for the money.
But that's it.
Even a Matrix M Stage sounds better than any FiiO head amp that I have heard.


----------



## x838nwy

I agree that implementation is more important than the actual parts (in most cases) and that individual components will cost waaaay less than a manufactured product. I also agree that r&d costs money.

But come on! This is Meridian we're talking about here! Surely their engineers didn't need THAT much r&d to make something like this. They're already doing the Director and Explorer neither of which is a world away from this limpness, plus they have oodles of experience in dsp and hifi in general - so I expect them to whip up something like this in a matter of weeks.

As for implementation, I don't see much here TO implement. It looks to these untrained eyes like a re-configured explorer, to be honest.

Finally, what's with the mini-usb input? Seriously, what's up with that on a desktop dac/amp? Appears they anticipated a much larger demand for their explorer than has realised and now just looking to get rid of parts they ordered...


----------



## nicoch46

is just director plus 5€ reg psu + 5€ opamp + 15€ alps = $$$$$$$
  
 ps I forget the magic asp...


----------



## Clemmaster

x838nwy said:


> I agree that implementation is more important than the actual parts (in most cases) and that individual components will cost waaaay less than a manufactured product. I also agree that r&d costs money.
> 
> But come on! This is Meridian we're talking about here! Surely their engineers didn't need THAT much r&d to make something like this. They're already doing the Director and Explorer neither of which is a world away from this limpness, plus they have oodles of experience in dsp and hifi in general - so I expect them to whip up something like this in a matter of weeks.
> 
> ...



They were nice enough to put the full size USB connector on the PSU, though


----------



## bigfatpaulie

I hate to say it, but this amp is reminiscent of the Grado headphone amp.  Looks like it is riding on the coat tails of the brand.


----------



## purk

bigfatpaulie said:


> I hate to say it, but this amp is reminiscent of the Grado headphone amp.  Looks like it is riding on the coat tails of the brand.


 
 Well...Grado's RA-1 is less than $400.  This is $2000 we are talking about.  I expect this amp to be very good given Meridian's knowledge of DSP & Digital despite using a so-so parts.  The price will be justified if they included a dedicate PSU at the asking price.  For 2K, Sennheiser HDVD-800 appears to be a much more attractive candidate.


----------



## Chris J

x838nwy said:


> I agree that implementation is more important than the actual parts (in most cases) and that individual components will cost waaaay less than a manufactured product. I also agree that r&d costs money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Is it manufactured in England?


----------



## jude

nicoch46 said:


> Crazy cheaper stuff  sell at high price by marketing using is good name !!
> 
> This dac  use  the  Crystal/cirrus logic cs4353  cheaper  consumer chip dac , you can found on Samsung BD-C6900 blu ray and probabily in ps3 slim..
> this chip  don' t have the connection for external digital filter ie no meridia proprietary sorftware for apodizing filter!! he use  apodizing in hardware by Crystal/cirrus logic
> ...


 


nicoch46 said:


> is just director plus 5€ reg psu + 5€ opamp + 15€ alps = $$$$$$$
> 
> ps I forget the magic asp...


 
  
 When I see posts like this, it makes me wonder what the motive is because (a) there is no CS4353 in the Prime; and (b) because there's no CS4353 in the Prime, it is obviously not using any built-in function of that chip (as you have, again, wrongly asserted).
  
 With respect to apodising, I asked Bob Stuart about this, as implemented in the Prime, and he said that they are not using the in-built minimum-phase function of any chip, and that apodising is a separate thing from minimum-phase. From our conversation, Bob Stuart said:
  


> That processing--apodising, upsampling, filtering, matched dither, etc., is Meridian custom DSP code running in the larger XMOS part, and is computationally intensive.
> 
> As in other Meridian products, little can be learned from the DAC chip itself; it lives in a matched ecosystem where the DSP is dominant.
> 
> Any experienced practitioner understands that products are systems and the way they are designed and configured is more important, in general, than any bias one might have about an individual part. Having said that, we chose every component carefully, but in combination. As with most of our products, the digital engineering, all-important PCB inner layers and DSP can't be seen, but the result can be heard.


 
  
 I agree, because I have heard it, and the Prime is, to my ears, a very impressive component.
  
 I love my Lavry Engineering DA11's, too (enough to have bought two of them), but I've been buying more and more 24/192 recordings, and the Lavry cannot play those files (it tops out at 24/96). The Lavry DA11 checks off even fewer buzzwords, but, to me, sounds better than many DACs that have come through here that checked them all off (and _a lot_ of DACs come through here). At RMAF one year, I had the DA11 in the same rig with another DAC that checked of all the audiophile-expected checkmarks of the time; and _far_ more people who directly compared them preferred the Lavry (with its switching power supply, adaptive USB, and no specific attempt at removing digital pre-ringing via minimum-phase filtering or any other means--_gasp!_).
  
 Similarly, I was at one function where someone brought a DAC he'd loaded with boutique parts (including some very expensive, very audiophile-approved capacitors), with a design to intended to check off all the buzzwords, only to see it unable to reliably lock onto USB--and sounding rather bad when it did.
  
 I've heard components with super-impressive BOMs, boutique parts and all the right buzzwords that some audiophiles absolutely require to be checked, with discrete output stages and fancy-looking power supplies, yet with abysmal results. (Of course, I've also heard components with all these things, well designed, well put together, that sounded great.) I don't care whether it's chips or discrete, I want it to sound good. I don't care if its USB implementation is async or not, I just want it to sound good. I don't care what DAC chip is in it (for example, I have no fewer than four Sabre-based DAC products, and it perplexes me why so many people lump all Sabre-based DACs together, as if they all sound the same--they don't). I care about what happens in concert inside the box. I care about what's happening at the outputs, in terms of how it sounds to me. 
  
 I'm not qualified to fully understand what's going on in the Meridian Prime's six-layer PCB, in their custom DSP, etc. But I have heard the Prime, and, to my ears, it's _very_ good, as a DAC, or as a DAC/amp. I've also owned a couple of other Meridian components over the last many years, and, again, the Prime is very Meridian to me.
  
 As a little aside, and getting back to the Lavry for a moment: one feature of the Lavry DA11 that I love, and have kept it around for? Its crossfeed. Since before I founded Head-Fi in 2001, I've been using crossfeed when I feel necessary (examples include some stereo Beatles with hard left-right panning that's just too unnatural to me through headphones; also, try listening to Blind Melon's "Change" through headphones). With Meridian's ASP crossfeed circuit, I'm thrilled to have another DAC whose sound I love _and_ that has very well-implemented crossfeed, _and _covers me up to 24/192. Yes, the crossfeed is just one of many things Meridian seems to have gotten right in the Prime.
  
 Find a Meridian dealer and listen to the Prime. Then lets' talk.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

purk said:


> Well...Grado's RA-1 is less than $400.  This is $2000 we are talking about.  I expect this amp to be very good given Meridian's knowledge of DSP & Digital despite using a so-so parts.  The price will be justified if they included a dedicate PSU at the asking price.  For 2K, Sennheiser HDVD-800 appears to be a much more attractive candidate.


 
  
 I agree.  I guess more my point was the the Grado amp is considered a poor value amp (ie, not a lot of amp for the money versus the competition).  I feel that this is similar in that sense.  It's too bad, I was really excited for this product.


----------



## Chris J

jude said:


> When I see posts like this, it makes me wonder what the motive is because (a) there is no CS4353 in the Prime; and (b) because there's no CS4353 in the Prime, it is obviously not using any built-in function of that chip (as you have, again, wrongly asserted).
> 
> With respect to apodising, I asked Bob Stuart about this, as implemented in the Prime, and he said that they are not using the in-built minimum-phase function of any chip, and that apodising is a separate thing from minimum-phase. From our conversation, Bob Stuart said:
> 
> ...


 
  
 And that, folks, is what Engineering REALLY is.


----------



## nicoch46

HI
 Quote from   http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/meridian-dac-and-headphone-amplifier-review/
 "As with the Director, the meridian Prime can accept digital inputs up to 24-bit, 192kHz, and upsamples all 44.1kHz/48kHz signals to 88.2kHz/96kHz using Meridian’s proprietary apodising filter, bypassing the linear reconstruction filter on board the CM4353. The left side of the PCB is devoted to filtering and regulating the incoming DC power"
  
 What dac is in there ? 
  
 Remember the director use the cm4353 and don't have external connection for  digital filter ie no xmos with propritary sofware ! ie no proprietary Apodising .. the same for explorer no external connection Ti dac
  
 Again what dac is in there ?
  
 Ps we know that apo and minimun phase are not the same thanks


----------



## Chris J

nicoch46 said:


> HI
> Quote from   http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/meridian-dac-and-headphone-amplifier-review/
> "As with the Director, the meridian Prime can accept digital inputs up to 24-bit, 192kHz, and upsamples all 44.1kHz/48kHz signals to 88.2kHz/96kHz using Meridian’s proprietary apodising filter, bypassing the linear reconstruction filter on board the CM4353. The left side of the PCB is devoted to filtering and regulating the incoming DC power"
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think Jude was implying that 99.9% of us Head Fi-ers really can't draw any meaningful conclusions when told what DAC is in the box.
 As Mr. Stuart pointed out, implementation is everything.
  
 You can use the world's greatest DAC chip and screw it all up with poor board layout, or poor power supply implementation, etc, etc, etc.


----------



## GaryB

Jude, would it be possible to snap and post a couple of pics of the Prime's wall wart?  What are its approximate dimensions?
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## nicoch46

HI Jude I'm waiting to know from you what dac is in there........
  
 thanks


----------



## Chris J

garyb said:


> Jude, would it be possible to snap and post a couple of pics of the Prime's wall wart?  What are its approximate dimensions?
> Thanks again.




That's a different question!
Mind if I ask what's motivating that?


----------



## dcginc

Jude,

Did Bob Stuart say why no balanced output for the Prime? Just curious


----------



## GaryB

chris j said:


> That's a different question!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nothing sinister. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Just curious if there would be any issues with siting... i.e. regarding its size or whether it's a plug on a brick or a cord on a brick.


----------



## Chris J

garyb said:


> Nothing sinister.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah.....now I see.
 Personally, I'm not crazy about wall warts.
 In can be difficult to plug two into the wall, the top one may come loose over time.


----------



## x838nwy

chris j said:


> Ah.....now I see.
> Personally, I'm not crazy about wall warts.
> In can be difficult to plug two into the wall, the top one may come loose over time.




Same here. Socket real-estate is a real problem for me these days. And some of our sockets were installed sideways. Don't ask me why.


----------



## GaryB

x838nwy said:


> Same here. Socket real-estate is a real problem for me these days. And some of our sockets were installed sideways. Don't ask me why.


 
  
 That's a common practice in hospitals...


----------



## R Giskard

That's an interesting amplifier. The design is very much like their CD players, albeit smaller. I don't like the fact it has an external power transformer though.


----------



## nicoch46

r giskard said:


> That's an interesting amplifier. The design is very much like their CD players, albeit smaller. I don't like the fact it has an external power transformer though.


 

 wait..... we will know what is in there....
  
 Btw external power transformer is always a good idea


----------



## purk

nicoch46 said:


> wait..... we will know what is in there....
> 
> *Btw external power transformer is always a good idea*


 
 Yes, this help reduce the noise in the amplifier quite a bit.  However, a wallwart PSU is not a good idea.


----------



## ChiAki

Looks really...... NOT MERIDIAN...


----------



## ticos442

Can someone verify if the RCA line out is fixed or variable?
  
 In my office/desktop I also have an Amp and speakers, which is fed currently by a Meridian Director and and Oppo universal player. The Meridian Director is also feeding via a splitter a Woo Audio headphone amplifier. I'm very interested to see if I can simplify my current configuration by inserting the Prime to replace the Director and the Woo Audio headphone amp without losing any sound quality.

 Can the Prime really be used as a pre-amp configuration? Per Meridian's Prime manual, it can be used not only to feed powered speakers, but also as a pre-amp through the line-level outputs. Therefore, I assume the volume control knob is only applicable for the headphone outputs, but I might be wrong here.

"On the output side, the Meridian Prime Headphone Amplifier includes a pair of gold-plated line-level phonos on the rear panel that can be used to drive an external amplifier or pair of analogue active loudspeakers"
 ...

 "In addition to its use with headphones, the Prime Headphone Amplifier is also an outstanding analogue preamplifier, allowing multiple inputs to be managed effectively and brought up to line level at extraordinarily high quality for driving external power amplifiers or powered analogue speakers "


----------



## GaryB

The RCA output is definitely variable, as stated by jude in answering my question earlier in this thread, confirmed in e-mail correspondence I had with Meridian technical support. Don't hesitate to contact Meridian... in my experience they respond to questions quickly.


----------



## ticos442

Thank you GaryB for the clarification.
  
 In your opinion, would this be a deal breaker in my configuration if I were to buy the Prime to also use it as a pre-amp?  
  
 The output on the Director is definitely fixed which makes things easy.  However, with the Prime I am worried that it would be difficult to determine the ideal level of volume out in the Prime that I would need to dial to in order to feed my amplifier for maximum sound quality.  Any suggestions on this?


----------



## ticos442

Jude, I am really interested in the Prime.  I have a couple of questions that I'd really appreciate your input on:
  
 1.  When do you expect to get the optional power supply unit?  And therefore, when do you think you can provide us your feedback on what difference did it make?
 2.  When you do, can you compare it to cheaper cleaner USB power options like the iFi iUSB or others?

 Thanks!


----------



## Hooster

ticos442 said:


> Thank you GaryB for the clarification.
> 
> In your opinion, would this be a deal breaker in my configuration if I were to buy the Prime to also use it as a pre-amp?
> 
> The output on the Director is definitely fixed which makes things easy.  However, with the Prime I am worried that it would be difficult to determine the ideal level of volume out in the Prime that I would need to dial to in order to feed my amplifier for maximum sound quality.  Any suggestions on this?


 
  
 Is your aim just to simplify your configuration? The Prime uses an Alps pot to control the volume. Just set the volume to whatever listening level you like, I don't see any difficulty there. In my opinion there are better solutions to controlling volume than Alps pots, but what do I know...


----------



## ticos442

Thank you.
  
 Yes - one of the objectives is the simplification of my configuration, and to minimize cables, and the overall path to the final musical product.  I would significantly reduce the number of boxes, gear and cables if I go with the Prime implementation, and if what they advertise really works.
  
 I have been impressed with the Meridian products/sound  (Explorer, Director) that I currently have, and I like very much in theory what they have done with the Prime.  I agree - I am not crazy about the variable output and the Alps pot implementation, but all reviews I've read so far claim that it does not affect the sound and experience.


----------



## Neverthinking

nice amp. but the price is nice too...


----------



## GaryB

ticos442, I see by your profile that you apparently now own a Prime.  Have you any comments regarding your initial experience?
  
 TIA


----------



## ticos442

I was so excited about my new purchase that I updated my profile too soon.  My Meridian Prime got stuck in the mess that UPS has in their hands with last week's winter storm in the DFW area - my Prime has been delayed getting to my home for more than 10 days and counting.   I will be happy to report findings once I get it!


----------



## GaryB

Very good.  If you could post a pic or two of the standard power supply once it arrives, even better.


----------



## dminches

Jude, or anyone else, can you comment on how this compares to RWA's Audez'e Edition with the LCD line?  I realize they are completely different designs, but their prices are close if you add the Meridian PS.


----------



## ticos442

I finally got it a couple of hours ago!
  
 I need to of course do some high quality pink noise and high resolution music burning of the unit and some more critical listening, but clearly the sound that's coming out of the Meridian Prime has already put a smile on my face...
  
 A few quick observations:
  
 1.  I am including pictures of the power adapter, per your request.  Not the highlight of the product for sure, it is an ordinary wall wart without a ground connector.  
 2. I am feeding the unit through my recently acquired iFi Micro USB power supply, which made all of my previous gear shine.  I loved what this little unit did for the Centrance DacMini that the Prime is replacing.   The Centrance DacMini never sounded so good!
 3.  The USB input is through a mini-USB connector.  I am using a $2 short cable at the moment until I find a better solution.  Now I have an expensive Audioquest Carbon USB cable sitting on the sideline, as it's a standard audiophile quality USB-A and B cable that I have used for all my other DACs.  I need to find a better solution for the mini-USB cable moving forward as it's clearly my weakest link in the chain.
 4. I am listening to the unit through the analog output feeding my amplifier and speakers, I have turned the Prime volume knob halfway for this purpose.  I will do some headphone specific listening later tonight and through the week.
  
 More to come...


----------



## GaryB

Thanks for your initial impressions of the Prime and photos of the wall wart.  I suspect that there won't be any big surprises as you spend more time with it... please let us know either way.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I am surprised by the wall wart.


----------



## GaryB

ticos442, I'm aware that the 1/8" and 1/4" headphone jacks on the Prime have different output impedances.  Are you able to ascertain whether they have subjectively different _gains_ by testing the same headphone in both jacks (one will require an adapter, of course).  The testing headphone should have an impedance greater than 20 ohms or so, to minimize that as a factor.
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## ticos442

GaryB,
  
 I just performed a quick and not very scientific test, but can hopefully at least partially answer your question:
  
 1. Tested three different kinds of headphones, on both the 1/4" and 1/8" jacks, with adapters as needed.  Same song played throughout
 2. Set ASP in the "i" setting, which has a bit of a louder effect as sounds are spaced to mimic the sensation that they are coming from stereo speakers.  This is my favorite setting thus far.  the "ii" setting centralizes the sound too much for my liking
 3. The test I performed is to dial the volume to the loudest that I could tolerate, and notice where it ended up in the volume dial knob
 4. The maximum volume setting with the knob would be at the 6 o'clock mark
  
 Results:
 ----------------------------------1/4"---------------------1/8"
  
 Grado PS1000-------------2 o'clock-------------3 o'clock
 Ultrasone8-------------------11 o'clock-----------12 o'clock
 Monster T. Copper--------10 o'clock-----------11 o'clock
 Monster Miles Davis-----10 o'clock------------11 o'clock
  
 From the above, I expected the Grados to be harder to drive and therefore I needed more volume to reach my maximum tolerance level.  The Ultrasone were easy to drive, almost at the same level of the Monster Turbine Copper and Miles Davis.   But the biggest surprise was that there isn't a huge difference in gain between the 1/4" and the 1/8" jacks.  I will of course need to be careful when plugging the more sensitive Monster IEMs, as if I accidentally plug them in when the volume know is set to maximum, they can be damaged.


----------



## GaryB

Excellent, ticos... your informal tests suggest that there is a little less gain at the 1/8" jacks than at the 1/4" jacks, requiring a slightly higher position of the volume knob to reach the equivalent level. This makes sense, since the 1/8" jacks will typically be used with more sensitive phones, and to some extent might obviate the need for a separate gain switch (one of the only 2 things, the other being a switchable fixed/variable output) which I might miss on the Prime.

Thanks much!


----------



## ticos442

Agree on your comments, including the analog output comment.  I do wish that the Prime had a switchable fixed/variable output, or just a fixed output for that matter for my configuration.
   However, I knew that before purchasing the unit and it's just a minor drawback, compared to the sound quality and the flexibility it provides, being a 192KHz capable DAC over USB, the pretty cool headphone amplifier features, including ASP, the availability of two analog inputs to serve as a pre-amp, and the high quality analog output stage.  I just need to be careful with the volume knob, and turning it all the way down before plugging any headphones.
  
 By the way, I've been enjoying some DSD titles with my Prime, by using Audirvana Plus, which does the DSD to PCM conversion on the fly.  I set the conversion rate to 176.4Khz PCM to send to the Prime, and the results are astonishing.   The 24 bit 192 Khz titles that I've bought from HDTracks sound fabulous as well.
  
 I am awaiting an Audioquest Carbon USB A to USB B mini cable to connect to the Prime and replace the $2 USB cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I have plugged in a the moment.


----------



## Jodet

audionewbi said:


> Am I the only one who is really put off about the $2000 dollar amp that comes with a $1250 _optional_ PSU which is not really optional if you know what I mean?


 
  
 No you are not. 
  
 If you're going to spend three grand why not spend four and get an ALO amp?   Which doesn't push you into an integrated DAC combination.  Hey, Meridian.  I already own a DAC.   Every heard of this new concept called 'components'?   It's a good idea for very expensive gear.


----------



## Hooster

jodet said:


> No you are not.
> 
> If you're going to spend three grand why not spend four and get an ALO amp?   Which doesn't push you into an integrated DAC combination.  Hey, Meridian.  I already own a DAC.   Every heard of this new concept called 'components'?   It's a good idea for very expensive gear.


 

 Erm.... The DAC and the associated DSP is the whole point of this product and the only possible justification for it's high price.


----------



## Jodet

hooster said:


> Erm.... The DAC and the associated DSP is the whole point of this product and the only possible justification for it's high price.


 
  
 Gee, I thought it was a headphone amp with a built in DAC. 
  
 So it's a DAC with a built in headphone amp?


----------



## Hooster

jodet said:


> Gee, I thought it was a headphone amp with a built in DAC.
> 
> So it's a DAC with a built in headphone amp?


 
  
 You got it. If you look at what is inside the box the headphone amp itself does not appear to be very sophisticated/expensive, wall wart, alps pot and all. The DAC is supposed to be where the magic happens with this product.


----------



## RichardH09

ticos442 said:


> . I am using a $2 short cable at the moment until I find a better solution.  Now I have an expensive Audioquest Carbon USB cable sitting on the sideline, as it's a standard audiophile quality USB-A and B cable that I have used for all my other DACs.  I need to find a better solution for the mini-USB cable moving forward as it's clearly my weakest link in the chain.


 




 Oh dear oh dear


----------



## warrenpchi

Hey guys, I've got a question for everyone who doesn't like the wall wart.  When you auditioned the Meridian Prime with the wall wart, what sounded bad to you?  Any specific impressions on how the wall wart affected the Prime's sound in your listening tests would be helpful.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks!


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I just got one of these things over at Definitive Audio in Seattle, and it sounds great! I find listening to The Beatles in Stereo with ASP 1 helpful, as it merges the right and left, and it doesn't sound as seperated as before!


----------



## Hooster

warrenpchi said:


> Hey guys, I've got a question for everyone who doesn't like the wall wart.  When you auditioned the Meridian Prime with the wall wart, what sounded bad to you?  Any specific impressions on how the wall wart affected the Prime's sound in your listening tests would be helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Who said anything sounded bad?


----------



## ticos442

Fixed.  Got the Audioquest Carbon USB A to USB mini.  Sold the Audioquest Carbon USA A to USB B.   Really loving the sound!


----------



## ticos442

Agree - I don't think the wall wart has much to do with the sound quality, from my own tests and observations.  However, I'm using the iFi iUSBPower to feed the Prime with the best quality USB signal and power possible, and it does make a difference compared to just connecting directly to the computer.  I believe the wall wart is mostly used to feed the analog amplification circuits, and even when cranking the volume very high on the Prime without any music playing, my perceived noise floor is extremely low.
  
 For this reason, I don't think that I'm able to justify going for the advertised Meridian Power Supply at the current price level. I have been using the iFi iUSBPower unit that costs less than $200 and is providing a clean USB power and data signal to the Prime. I have tested the sound quality and noise floor level with and without the iFi, and I can say that this little iFi unit is making a big positive difference. From my listening tests in my current configuration, I am very happy with the results and I can't think what kind of positive impact I could get from buying the Meridian Power Supply unit.


----------



## warrenpchi

hooster said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys, I've got a question for everyone who doesn't like the wall wart.  When you auditioned the Meridian Prime with the wall wart, what sounded bad to you?  Any specific impressions on how the wall wart affected the Prime's sound in your listening tests would be helpful.
> ...


 
  
 No one.  But surely no one would complain about a wall wart sounding good.


----------



## warrenpchi

ticos442 said:


> Agree - I don't think the wall wart has much to do with the sound quality, from my own tests and observations.  However, I'm using the iFi iUSBPower to feed the Prime with the best quality USB signal and power possible, and it does make a difference compared to just connecting directly to the computer.  I believe the wall wart is mostly used to feed the analog amplification circuits, and even when cranking the volume very high on the Prime without any music playing, my perceived noise floor is extremely low.
> 
> For this reason, I don't think that I'm able to justify going for the advertised Meridian Power Supply at the current price level. I have been using the iFi iUSBPower unit that costs less than $200 and is providing a clean USB power and data signal to the Prime. I have tested the sound quality and noise floor level with and without the iFi, and I can say that this little iFi unit is making a big positive difference. From my listening tests in my current configuration, I am very happy with the results and I can't think what kind of positive impact I could get from buying the Meridian Power Supply unit.


 
  
 Thanks much ticos!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I found it odd that there were so many complaints about the wall wart, and yet none of them posted their impressions of how the unit sounds with said wall wart.


----------



## Hooster

warrenpchi said:


> No one.  But surely no one would complain about a wall wart sounding good.


 
  
 I have lots of wall warts, but none of them make any sounds. None of them is attached to something as expensive as the Meridian, but never mind. If you think the sound/looks/flexibility of the unit justify the price, then fugedabout the wall wart.


----------



## purk

I doubt that the Prime sound bad.  However, it will sound much better if they include a regulated PSU and not a wallwart for $300 more.  The upcharge of $1000 more for a better PSU is a bit much.


----------



## warrenpchi

hooster said:


> If you think the sound/looks/flexibility of the unit justify the price, then fugedabout the wall wart.


 
  
 Honestly, I couldn't say as I haven't heard it yet.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But if we're to judge a unit by it's performance, then would it not make sense to judge the wall wart in light of that as well?
  


purk said:


> I doubt that the Prime sound bad.  However, it will sound much better if they include a regulated PSU and not a wallwart for $300 more.  The upcharge of $1000 more for a better PSU is a bit much.


 
  
 Again, I think that would depend whether it improves the SQ, and by how much if it does.  I can tell you that I am eagerly awaiting an updated rectifier PSU for my WA7.  And even though it amounts to almost half of what I paid for the main unit, I consider it a worthy upgrade after having heard the difference it makes.  I realize that the dollar amounts are not the same in this case, but proportionately it's not that far off.
  
 In any case, I was simply asking for impressions of how it sounds with the wall wart in use, which ticos kindly provided.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I have a wall wart model, it sounds fine... I do want to hear with the ifi though!


----------



## warrenpchi

visceriouszero said:


> I have a wall wart model, it sounds fine... I do want to hear with the ifi though!


 
  
 You and me both.  I've heard so many good things about that ifi that it's getting very hard to ignore it.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

warrenpchi said:


> You and me both.  I've heard so many good things about that ifi that it's getting very hard to ignore it.


 
  
 Funny thing is I actually have one at home but since I'm traveling I can't get to it...


----------



## Asr

warrenpchi said:


> Hey guys, I've got a question for everyone who doesn't like the wall wart.  When you auditioned the Meridian Prime with the wall wart, what sounded bad to you?  Any specific impressions on how the wall wart affected the Prime's sound in your listening tests would be helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 No one here said anything about the sonic effect of the wall-wart. I'm pretty sure the main reason I and others complained about the wall-wart is the hassle involved to use one, whether deployed on a power strip or straight into a wall socket. Wall-warts in general are just annoying and I'm sure most people would've preferred an amp with an IEC C14 inlet for use with a more standard power cord.
  
 It also screams cheapness & laziness on the part of the manufacturer for such a high-cost amp. $2K for an amp without an integrated power supply is outrageous. Most amps that come with wall-warts are less than $500. I can't think of a single >$500 desktop amp that comes with one other than the Meridian Prime.
  
 Lastly, on a personal note I've _never _heard proper bass reproduction from any amp that used a wall-wart. I repeat: never. Whenever I see an amp that uses a wall-wart, I expect it to have some sort of bass deficiency, and historically that expectation has _always _been met without fail. I'd personally expect the same from the Prime.
  
 And that photo of the wall-wart is a major disappointment. The Elpac wall-wart that came with the $300 (the price when it originally came out) HeadAmp Gilmore Lite is probably more than twice the weight & mass of that dinky piece.


----------



## Hooster

asr said:


> It also screams cheapness & laziness on the part of the manufacturer for such a high-cost amp. $2K for an amp without an integrated power supply is outrageous. Most amps that come with wall-warts are less than $500. I can't think of a single >$500 desktop amp that comes with one other than the Meridian Prime.


 
  
 It has not stopped people buying this piece in droves, apparently... The market takes care of itself. If enough people are willing to pay the price it is not outrageous. I can't afford to blow that kind of money on an amp with a wall wart but if other people can, good for them!


----------



## warrenpchi

visceriouszero said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > You and me both.  I've heard so many good things about that ifi that it's getting very hard to ignore it.
> ...


 
  
 LOL, well maybe if the thing wasn't so big, people might take it with them?  Okay, okay, I'll be good and not go there.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Still, that it does what everyone says it does is enough to make me want it.
  


> Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm pretty sure the main reason I and others complained about the wall-wart is the hassle involved to use one, whether deployed on a power strip or straight into a wall socket. Wall-warts in general are just annoying and I'm sure most people would've preferred an amp with an IEC C14 inlet for use with a more standard power cord.


 
  
 I dunno about that... some of these IEC cables have pretty big-ass terminators on them.  I have several power cables that are the hardware equivalent of that one rude guy on flights and in movie theaters... never staying in their own personal space.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


asr said:


> Most amps that come with wall-warts are less than $500. I can't think of a single >$500 desktop amp that comes with one other than the Meridian Prime.


 
  
 I'll grant you that as I can't either.  But that - in and of itself - doesn't automatically invalidate the Prime as a good performer right?  Here's what I'm saying.  I can perceive that it uses a wall wart.  But at the end of the day, that does not constitute meaningful information on which to act or not act.  Now, if you were to try it out, and report back with impressions... that is information that I could make much better use of.  In short, impressions beat non-definitive specs.
  


asr said:


> Lastly, on a personal note I've _never _heard proper bass reproduction from any amp that used a wall-wart. I repeat: never. Whenever I see an amp that uses a wall-wart, I expect it to have some sort of bass deficiency, and historically that expectation has _always _been met without fail.


 
  
 Are you saying that there's a direct causal relationship?
  
  
 Anyway, we've got a handful of positive impressions so far, and no negative impressions, so that does bode well.  I'm not counting that guy who sells them of course (can't remember his handle right now).  Maybe the wall wart by itself is not a kiss-of-death?


----------



## purk

warrenpchi said:


> Anyway, we've got a handful of positive impressions so far, and no negative impressions, so that does bode well.  I'm not counting that guy who sells them of course (can't remember his handle right now).  Maybe the wall wart by itself is not a kiss-of-death?


 
 You are right that the wall wart is not a kiss of death.  However, Meridian could have made the chassis slightly bigger to accommodate a regulated PSU and charge like $300 - $500 more in lieu of $1250 for a dedicate unit.  Noise floor would not have been a problem given that they perform a proper shielding.  By doing so they will not short change their design and win lot more customers by doing so (Bryston BHA-1 anyone?).  Don't you a feel bit curious on how much better a "Prime" will sound with a much better PSU?  I hope you don't, b/c it will cost you more than a grand to find out.  To think of it, a DIY PSU such as the Sigma 22 maybe able to accomplish the same task for considerably much less money.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

warrenpchi said:


> LOL, well maybe if the thing wasn't so big, people might take it with them?  Okay, okay, I'll be good and not go there.     Still, that it does what everyone says it does is enough to make me want it.




I only found out about the ifi after I bought the Prime :c


----------



## GaryB

hooster said:


> It has not stopped people buying this piece in droves, apparently... The market takes care of itself. If enough people are willing to pay the price it is not outrageous. I can't afford to blow that kind of money on an amp with a wall wart but if other people can, good for them!


 
  
 Droves?  Hardly.
  
 I _can_ afford it and _still_ think the price is outrageous.  At _half_ its listed price, it would still be expensive but the price could to some extent be justified by its pedigree and capabilities.  Still, I know of no other single component - which is what I want for my desktop, not a haphazard collection of boxes and cables - which meets all my requirements so well.  I also have no qualms about its ultimate quality and reliability so I will very likely pony up.


----------



## Asr

warrenpchi said:


> I'll grant you that as I can't either.  But that - in and of itself - doesn't automatically invalidate the Prime as a good performer right?  Here's what I'm saying.  I can perceive that it uses a wall wart.  But at the end of the day, that does not constitute meaningful information on which to act or not act.  Now, if you were to try it out, and report back with impressions... that is information that I could make much better use of.  In short, impressions beat non-definitive specs.


 
  
 No, a wall-wart doesn't mean an amp is bad. But we're clearly in opposing views on this so it's sort of futile to try to argue further. For me, and clearly others here on Head-Fi, it constitutes meaningful info on which to _not _act, if I can use your words, in the specific case of the Prime. I might have considered buying the amp if it had been implemented better for its price (or if it was simply cheaper, like $500 or less), but as it is, I have no interest now in ever buying it, or anything else from Meridian now for that matter.
  
 I also disagree with your statement that "impressions beat non-definitive specs". IMO, subjective impressions and specs are equally important.
  


warrenpchi said:


> Are you saying that there's a direct causal relationship?


 
  
 Yes, that's exactly what I was saying.


----------



## warrenpchi

> Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> But we're clearly in opposing views on this so it's sort of futile to try to argue further.


 
  
 Oh, I wasn't arguing.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I simply wanted to know how the following can co-exist:  (a) wall warts resulting in poor performance; and (b) positive impressions of the Prime using a wall wart.


----------



## Asr

warrenpchi said:


> Oh, I wasn't arguing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The answer to that isn't obvious to you? Easily-impressed listeners, or those who haven't heard better, or most generously, almost any audio product is sure to get a positive impression by at least one person, because when we're talking about subjectivity, you leave open the chance that someone somewhere will find something subjectively good to their ears, even if that something is spec'd and/or measures horribly.


----------



## warrenpchi

asr said:


> because when we're talking about subjectivity, you leave open the chance that someone somewhere will find something subjectively good to their ears, even if that something is spec'd and/or measures horribly.


 
  
 Sure, in which case I would expect to come across negative impressions as well, which hasn't happened yet.  Subjectivity does swing both ways right?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If anything, I'm simply saying that more data points are required, at least for me, and that I'm not ready to definitively rule it out in the meantime.  It's not like I'm trying to defend the unit or something.  I haven't heard it yet.
  
 Also, in case we don't touch base again before tomorrow, happy holidays!  Stay warm!


----------



## ticos442

First of all - Happy Holidays to you all!
  
 Regarding the comment:  _"Lastly, on a personal note I've never heard proper bass reproduction from any amp that used a wall-wart. I repeat: never. Whenever I see an amp that uses a wall-wart, I expect it to have some sort of bass deficiency, and historically that expectation has always been met without fail"_
  
 My experience thus far with the Meridian Prime is that bass reproduction is not a problem, but that might just be the way I'm using it in my configuration.
  
 a) Purely as a headphone amplifier, the bass reproduction is at least as good as the Woo Audio WA6SE, which has its own separate power supply component.  Even using my harder to drive Grado PS 1000 headphones, bass reproduction is outstanding, and power is more than plenty, as I can't get past the 2 o'clock mark in the volume knob without feeling that I'm going to really hurt my ears.  Again, I'm using the iFi on the front end of the USB chain for clean USB data/power.  And I have plugged the Prime's wall wart to my Panamax M5100-PM, which is in turn getting power from an APC UPS- the combination of all of these already delivers fairly good conditioned AC power to the Prime.
  
 b) I also use the Prime as a pre-amp, connected to a Yamaha RX-1700 with a 5.1 speaker setup.  Sound quality is great and bass reproduction is of course not an issue as the Yamaha is doing the heavy work here.
  
 c) I have not tried the other typical configuration which is to connect the Prime's output directly to powered speakers.  I don't have high quality powered speakers to do a meaningful test on this configuration.


----------



## Chris J

ticos442 said:


> 1.  I am including pictures of the power adapter, per your request.  Not the highlight of the product for sure, it is an ordinary wall wart without a ground connector.


 
  
 That's an awfully big wall wart!
 Would we be more impressed if the same contents were in a separate box that didn't plug directly into the wall?


----------



## ticos442

I agree, a direct AC cable connection with a separate box would have been my preference.  I had to get creative to plug the wall wart into my Panamax M51100-PM power conditioner, as I unfortunately have other wall warts plugged into it.  However, once I was able to find room for it, I have forgotten about it and enjoyed the sound coming out of the Prime.


----------



## smial1966

Merry Christmas everyone and best wishes to you and your family this Yuletide. 

I am slightly bemused by the vehement criticism levelled at this product. As magazine reviews have been very positive, as have online audio websites and folks who've purchased it and contributed their thoughts in this thread. Yes, it is very expensive and could arguably have incorporated a much better power supply for the price, but we're not forced or coerced to buy it are we?!? So why not allow folks that actually own it to extol it's sonic virtues without sniping about the wall wart or the cost.


----------



## purk

chris j said:


> That's an awfully big wall wart!
> Would we be more impressed if the same contents were in a separate box that didn't plug directly into the wall?


 
 I think the wall wart is big compared to the small size of the amp.  I think it is a normal size.  I would not be very impressed with the content of a wallwart in a separate chassis at all.  Here's my thought on a good PSU design & layout and this is an older model.


----------



## warrenpchi

purk said:


> Here's my thought on a good PSU design & layout and this is an older model.


 
  
 Ooh, pretty...


----------



## Jodet

smial1966 said:


> Merry Christmas everyone and best wishes to you and your family this Yuletide.
> 
> I am slightly bemused by the vehement criticism levelled at this product. As magazine reviews have been very positive, as have online audio websites and folks who've purchased it and contributed their thoughts in this thread. Yes, it is very expensive and could arguably have incorporated a much better power supply for the price, but we're not forced or coerced to buy it are we?!? So why not allow folks that actually own it to extol it's sonic virtues without sniping about the wall wart or the cost.


 
  
 Odd, you don't seem new here.   But picking nits is what we do.   For hundred and hundreds of pages.
  
 Personally, $500 is the drop-dead upper limit of what I'll pay for a piece of gear with a wall-wart.   Not negotiable. 
  
 Seems like a pretty big nit to me.


----------



## smial1966

Nitpick if gear is expensive and sounds mediocre, but by all accounts the Prime sounds pretty darned good, so the barrage of wall wart criticism seems a bit churlish to me. 
  
 Merry Christmas.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


jodet said:


> Odd, you don't seem new here.   But picking nits is what we do.   For hundred and hundreds of pages.
> 
> Personally, $500 is the drop-dead upper limit of what I'll pay for a piece of gear with a wall-wart.   Not negotiable.
> 
> Seems like a pretty big nit to me.


----------



## Chris J

It certainly is.
Personally, my biggest criticism of the Prime is it only has USB digital input and analog input. I would personally never get a DAC that didn't have a few SPDIF inputs, coaxial and Toslink.

Mind you, I've never heard the Prime!


----------



## purk

smial1966 said:


>


 
  
  


chris j said:


> It certainly is.
> Personally, my biggest criticism of the Prime is it only has USB digital input and analog input. I would personally never get a DAC that didn't have a few SPDIF inputs, coaxial and Toslink.
> 
> Mind you, I've never heard the Prime!


 
  
 My problems with the Prime is that one will need to spend an extra $1250 to optimize the sound quality of an already expensive device.  I'm not saying that the stock Prime sounds bad due to wall wart, but to sound its very best...another $1250?  That's just not a good value IMO. 
  
 Hope everyone is enjoying their holidays 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and happy listening to all.


----------



## Hooster

smial1966 said:


> Merry Christmas everyone and best wishes to you and your family this Yuletide.
> 
> I am slightly bemused by the vehement criticism levelled at this product. As magazine reviews have been very positive, as have online audio websites and folks who've purchased it and contributed their thoughts in this thread. Yes, it is very expensive and could arguably have incorporated a much better power supply for the price, but we're not forced or coerced to buy it are we?!? So why not allow folks that actually own it to extol it's sonic virtues without sniping about the wall wart or the cost.


 
  
 The fact is this product has a wall wart. It is also a fact that this is pretty much unheard of for a product at that price level. If you call stating these undisputed facts "vehement criticism", then I wonder what your agenda is.
  
 If you want a balanced discussion of a product, then surely you should allow people to state everything, warts and all? If not, how can the discussion be balanced?
  
 How much attention do I pay to magazine reviews of products that are usually featured on one or two page ads in the same magazines? None, for obvious reasons.
  
 This product is what it is and it is clearly well suited to a certain group of users. Good on Meridian for finding and exploiting that niche.


----------



## smial1966

I'm not disputing that the Prime uses a wall wart and have no agenda whatsoever. I was merely pointing out that it's not very rational to criticise an audio product for using a wall wart merely because of what it is, especially when thread contributors who actually own the Prime have unanimously praised it's sonic attributes. 




hooster said:


> The fact is this product has a wall wart. It is also a fact that this is pretty much unheard of for a product at that price level. If you call stating these undisputed facts "vehement criticism", then I wonder what your agenda is.
> 
> If you want a balanced discussion of a product, then surely you should allow people to state everything, warts and all? If not, how can the discussion be balanced?
> 
> ...


----------



## Maxvla

smial1966 said:


> I'm not disputing that the Prime uses a wall wart and have no agenda whatsoever. I was merely pointing out that it's not very rational to criticise an audio product for using a wall wart merely because of what it is, especially when thread contributors who actually own the Prime have unanimously praised it's sonic attributes.



Actually, it would be irrational to NOT discuss it.

Performance be damned, there is no pixie dust or other magical items in this product that make it cost as much as it does with a wall wart. There is also virtually no R+D in this product. It is priced by reputation and expected market alone, not by what it consists of. That is the problem most people have with it.

The price of the separate power supply is also ridiculous, considering the talk I am hearing about the pricing for an extra power supply unit for the Eddie Current Leviathan build which is much larger and higher grade and will be around $600.

Meridian will sell these to people who read audio rags or have a speaker rig with their components (and too much money), but I doubt they sell many to headphone enthusiasts.


----------



## smial1966

"Performance be damned". Really?!? So by what criteria do you judge gear by if not how it sounds?




maxvla said:


> Actually, it would be irrational to NOT discuss it.
> 
> Performance be damned, there is no pixie dust or other magical items in this product that make it cost as much as it does with a wall wart. There is also virtually no R+D in this product. It is priced by reputation and expected market alone, not by what it consists of. That is the problem most people have with it.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jodet

smial1966 said:


> "Performance be damned". Really?!? So by what criteria do you judge gear by if not how it sounds?


 
  
 Lots of things.   Price performance ratio.   Build quality.   Features.   Reliability.   Customer service.   Cosmetics - I personally see no need to spend my money on gear that I find ugly when there is so much nice looking gear out there. 
  
 I would never buy a product >$500 that has a wall wart.   It's a poor design and shows a lack of judgement on the part of the manufacturer, IMHO.   If they'll do that, what else will they do?


----------



## smial1966

Addressing your purchasing criteria... Admittedly the Prime is overpriced and I wouldn't buy it, but I don't think that it's build quality can be faulted nor it's feature set or reliability, certainly not judging by Meridians excellent reputation for gear longevity and customer service. Aesthetically I find the Prime to be somewhat bland but not ugly by any means. 




jodet said:


> Lots of things.   Price performance ratio.   Build quality.   Features.   Reliability.   Customer service.   Cosmetics - I personally see no need to spend my money on gear that I find ugly when there is so much nice looking gear out there.
> 
> I would never buy a product >$500 that has a wall wart.   It's a poor design and shows a lack of judgement on the part of the manufacturer, IMHO.   If they'll do that, what else will they do?


----------



## smial1966

Purely as an aside and by no means wishing to derail this thread, I'm far more excited by the forthcoming Chord Hugo with it's headphone amp, DSD DAC and battery power. Quoted to retail at £1,200 it's by no means cheap but does have a comprehensive feature set.


----------



## Hooster

jodet said:


> I would never buy a product >$500 that has a wall wart.   It's a poor design and shows a lack of judgement on the part of the manufacturer, IMHO.   If they'll do that, what else will they do?


 
  
 Use an Alps pot and provide very limited connectivity.


----------



## purk

hooster said:


> Use an Alps pot and provide very limited connectivity.


 
 Nothing is wrong with using an Alps RK27 though.  Many highend mfgs still use them.  For instance, the April Music DP-1 also use RK27.


----------



## mikemercer

smial1966 said:


> I'm not disputing that the Prime uses a wall wart and have no agenda whatsoever. I was merely pointing out that it's not very rational to criticise an audio product for using a wall wart merely because of what it is, especially when thread contributors who actually own the Prime have unanimously praised it's sonic attributes.


 
 AMEN!
  
 I own MANY personal audio product that utilize walwarts
 And it's hang-ups like this that derail us from one of our COLLECTIVE goals:
 Connecting with the MUSIC!
  
 Right??
  
 For me, like smial1966  it seems, its the musical performance of the product that matters!
 I mean, EVERYBODY jumped on the async bandwagon so fast - not realizing it's not just the ONE thing,
 it's the implementation that matters!
  
 Case in point:
 The CEntrance DACport (isochronous) had one of the lowest jitter measurements John Atkinson ever came across!
  
 Also - thing like the iFi iCAN utilize a wallwart - and I find that headphone amp to be seductively musical.
  
 and I just got to hear the Meridian for the first time, so I only have initial impressions:
 But it sounded CLEAN, dynamic, and downright fun to listen to!
 It MAY be a bit over-analytical for me, but I'm going to borrow it to find out.


----------



## Maxvla

Comparing a $250 product with a wall wart and a $2000 product with a wall wart, nice.

Please stop with the multiple all caps words in your posts. It should be used for emphasis, but when you do it in every sentence, it no longer emphasizes anything but your lack of tact. The constant twitter tagging is also distracting since you aren't actually using twitter here.


----------



## mikemercer

maxvla said:


> Comparing a $250 product with a wall wart and a $2000 product with a wall wart, nice.
> 
> Please stop with the multiple all caps words in your posts. It should be used for emphasis, but when you do it in every sentence, it no longer emphasizes anything but your lack of tact. The constant twitter tagging is also distracting since you aren't actually using twitter here.


 
 didn't compare them,
 just said I don't see how a wall wart factors in.
  
 and I wasn't Twitter-tagging - tried to tag smial1966 as I have done many times (tag another member)
 don't know what happened there.
 and I don't see how doing this once constitutes "constant", but OK.
  
 My utmost apologies if the all-caps bothered you.
 Being a writer for a living- I use a different style of expression here in the forums,
 never had a complaint before. I post from the gut, as I do in my writing.
  
 But I'll keep it down here if it bothers you.
  
 My point in mentioning both those products was that both utilized wall warts and both have brought me joy when listening.
 Of course, as stated, my impressions of the Meridian were merely initial.
  
 I didn't think of the price - just like I never wanna hear what a component costs when I first hear it for review, as I don't want that intel to color my view of the product until I've lived with its performance. That's a tenant I learned from my mentor, and I think it works rather well.


----------



## Radio_head

maxvla said:


> Comparing a $250 product with a wall wart and a $2000 product with a wall wart, nice.
> 
> Please stop with the multiple all caps words in your posts. It should be used for emphasis, but when you do it in every sentence, it no longer emphasizes anything but your lack of tact. The constant twitter tagging is also distracting since you aren't actually using twitter here.


 
 DUDE, I think it's JUST YOU.  I have NO idea who you THINK you are, but you MUST be someone who likes POPPING balloons JUST to see them DEFLATE.
  
 #overlysensitivemuch #rememberotherstuffonlybothersyoulikecenterstageissues #curmudgeonlyaudiophileiscurmudgeon


----------



## smial1966

Excellent riposte Radio_head. Particularly enjoyed the curmudgeon reference. 
  





  
 Quote:


radio_head said:


> DUDE, I think it's JUST YOU.  I have NO idea who you THINK you are, but you MUST be someone who likes POPPING balloons JUST to see them DEFLATE.
> 
> #overlysensitivemuch #rememberotherstuffonlybothersyoulikecenterstageissues #curmudgeonlyaudiophileiscurmudgeon


----------



## Maxvla

Joke's on you, friend.


----------



## smial1966

How so friend? Please explain. 
  
 Quote:


maxvla said:


> Joke's on you, friend.


----------



## jude

smial1966 said:


> How so friend? Please explain. ​


  

 No, don't explain here. Do it via PM if you feel you must.
  
 It's getting personal here, guys, so enough with that.


----------



## smial1966

Sure thing, no offence intended. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


jude said:


> No, don't explain here. Do it via PM if you feel you must.
> 
> It's getting personal here, guys, so enough with that.


----------



## smial1966

Back on track...
  
 Have any owners and/or thread contributors heard the Prime with the additional Power Supply? If so, is it worth the additional cost and what sonic attributes does it impart?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Hooster

smial1966 said:


> Back on track...
> 
> Have any owners and/or thread contributors heard the Prime with the additional Power Supply? If so, is it worth the additional cost and what sonic attributes does it impart?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Since it is very expensive I doubt there are many out there who have heard it. Typically a better power supply has the biggest impact on the bass reproduction giving more precision and slam. It may also make the sound more relaxed with a more solid localization of the instruments.
  
 I wonder why Meridian bothered to make this product with two different power supplies. I think they should have stuck to one product with a good power supply and left it at that. I don't think it is nice to leave the people with the standard power supply speculating on what might have been.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I'd like to listen to the Prime with the power supply but I haven't seen one that I could purchase outright.


----------



## Chris J

radio_head said:


> DUDE, I think it's JUST YOU.  I have NO idea who you THINK you are, but you MUST be someone who likes POPPING balloons JUST to see them DEFLATE.
> 
> #overlysensitivemuch #rememberotherstuffonlybothersyoulikecenterstageissues #curmudgeonlyaudiophileiscurmudgeon


 
 Let's just say I agree, and leave it at that.


----------



## GaryB

ticos442 said:


> I agree, a direct AC cable connection with a separate box would have been my preference.  I had to get creative to plug the wall wart into my Panamax M51100-PM power conditioner, as I unfortunately have other wall warts plugged into it.  However, once I was able to find room for it, I have forgotten about it and enjoyed the sound coming out of the Prime.


 
  
 In case you or others might be interested, I have just confirmed that Channel Islands Audio will build a custom 12V version of their VDC power supply which could be used to replace the Prime's wall wart.  I suspect that you are already getting most of the benefits of the $1250 optional Meridian power supply with your $199 iFi iUSBPower; adding the $329 Channel Islands unit should close the gap completely, although in an admittedly less elegant way.


----------



## ticos442

garyb said:


> In case you or others might be interested, I have just confirmed that Channel Islands Audio will build a custom 12V version of their VDC power supply which could be used to replace the Prime's wall wart.  I suspect that you are already getting most of the benefits of the $1250 optional Meridian power supply with your $199 iFi iUSBPower; adding the $329 Channel Islands unit should close the gap completely, although in an admittedly less elegant way.


 

 Thanks GaryB - do you by chance happen to know when this 12 Volt power supply from Channels Islands Audio will be available?
  
 I have to say that I'm very happy with the sound of the Meridian Prime - it is the best sounding product I've ever owned.   I'm comparing it with various DACs and headphone amplifiers I've owned, including Woo Audio headphone amplifiers.  I particularly love that in very quiet passages, or in transition between songs, the Prime is "pitch black", there's no noise at all, compared to the tube amplifiers I've owned in the past, where there is always a hiss or tube noise in the background.  I also use the Prime as a pre-amp 50% of the time, where the benefits of a more competent power supply would not really be that applicable.
  
 As you say, I'm already enjoying the benefits of clean USB data and power by using the iFi iUSBPower box.  The only way to confirm any additional improvement is by either replacing the Prime wall wart with the unit you are recommending or with the Meridian Power Supply.  From the superb sound quality that I'm witnessing at the moment, I would suspect that any additional improvements would be fairly subtle and mostly on better bass definition when using the Prime in headphone amplification mode.
  
 The major problem with the Meridian Power Supply (MPS) is the significant cost, which is caused by the fact that is over-engineered for the purpose of just feeding the Prime.  The MPS has 5 latching 3-pin mini-DIN connectors that provide the 12V DC at up to 500mA, in addition to the single USB output and data pass-through for powering external devices @ 5V DC at up to 1A.  This unit was designed to power up to 4 additional Meridian gear/devices, in addition to the Prime.   But most users (like me) that have the Prime as their only Meridian product would not need those four additional outputs at all.  I wish that they had a smaller/simpler single 5V and 12V output Power Supply unit at a cost similar to the Channel Islands Audio unit, in the range of $300-$500.


----------



## GaryB

The unit is available now... just contact them and they'll build it for you.  It will look exactly like their current 5V and 9V units except that it will have the correct designation (VDC-12 MKII) silk-screened on the front panel.  They just need to know the diameter of the plug at the end of the wall wart's DC cable (they suspect 2.1 mm).  Cost is the same as their 5V and 9V units... $329.  I know all this because I emailed them twice earlier today and they responded promptly each time... on a Sunday.
  
 Many don't seem to realize (I know _you_ do) that the digital portion (DAC) of the Prime is powered by the USB port on your computer while the analog portions (preamp, headphone amp) are powered by the wall wart.  The optional Meridian power supply (MPS) provides very clean power to _both_ parts with 2 separate connections to the Prime.  Your iUSBPower should be just as good as the MPS with regard to the digital portions... I suspect the Channel Islands power supply would be just as good as the MPS with regard to the analog stages.  As for what additional difference the Channel Islands unit might make... your current very positive experience does suggest that any further improvement to be had by replacing the wall wart would likely be pretty subtle, unless of course you're allergic to wall warts or inexpensive switching power supplies, as many here seem to be.


----------



## Chris J

garyb said:


> The unit is available now... just contact them and they'll build it for you.  It will look exactly like their current 5V and 9V units except that it will have the correct designation (VDC-12 MKII) silk-screened on the front panel.  They just need to know the diameter of the plug at the end of the wall wart's DC cable (they suspect 2.1 mm).  Cost is the same as their 5V and 9V units... $329.  I know all this because I emailed them twice earlier today and they responded promptly each time... on a Sunday.
> 
> Many don't seem to realize (I know _you_ do) that the digital portion (DAC) of the Prime is powered by the USB port on your computer while the analog portions (preamp, headphone amp) are powered by the wall wart.  The optional Meridian power supply (MPS) provides very clean power to _both_ parts with 2 separate connections to the Prime.  Your iUSBPower should be just as good as the MPS with regard to the digital portions... I suspect the Channel Islands power supply would be just as good as the MPS with regard to the analog stages.  As for what additional difference the Channel Islands unit might make... your current very positive experience does suggest that any further improvement to be had by replacing the wall wart would likely be pretty subtle, unless of course you're allergic to wall warts or inexpensive switching power supplies, as many here seem to be.


 
 Is the Prime wall wart a Switchmode Power Supply?


----------



## GaryB

chris j said:


> Is the Prime wall wart a Switchmode Power Supply?


 
  
 Not sure... maybe ticos can confirm one way or the other, although it's often not explicitly stated on the power supply.


----------



## ticos442

garyb said:


> Not sure... maybe ticos can confirm one way or the other, although it's often not explicitly stated on the power supply.


 

 Switchmode
  
 .


----------



## GaryB

No surprise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Edit: maybe I'm too trusting... where is the designation?


----------



## GaryB

OK... now I believe you:
  
http://www.adaptertech.com.tw/08_ac_dc_switching_adapter.html


----------



## ticos442

garyb said:


> OK... now I believe you:
> 
> http://www.adaptertech.com.tw/08_ac_dc_switching_adapter.html


 

 You got it.  It comes with three different AC prongs for different country electrical outlets.  The Meridian Director also has a similar AC Prong Changeable adapter.


----------



## Chris J

If it has a range of 100-240 Vac without having to flip any toggle switch on the wall wart, then it will be a Switchmode Power Supply.


----------



## ticos442

@Gary B:
  
 Well, I just pulled the trigger and ordered the 12V Channel Island Audio power supply unit.  If the unit is as good as their customer service, then I know I won't regret the purchase.  As you said, response has been immediate and personalized.  Thanks so much for the tip!
  
 My expectations is that this unit will offer a subtle improvement, but I will have to test it very carefully and spend some time on it, as A/B comparisons will not be immediate as I'll need to switch the power supplies and trust my ears.  I should get it by early next week and will report my findings.  The best case scenario is that this configuration of the iFi on the USB 5V end and the Channels Islands Audio on the 12V end will perform for $530 as well or better as the $1,250 Meridian Power Supply.


----------



## GaryB

I'm surprised it took you so long. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously, your expectations regarding your upgrades match mine and I'm very interested to know your findings.  You're most welcome for the referral.
  
 BTW, is Dusty sending you a DC power cord for a 2.1mm center pin, 2.5mm, or both?


----------



## ticos442

garyb said:


> I'm surprised it took you so long.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks again GaryB!
  
 Dusty will be sending me a 24" DC power cord with a 2.5mm center pin that will plug into a 2.1mm adapter.  He said it should work just fine.


----------



## judy1992

audionewbi said:


> Am I the only one who is really put off about the $2000 dollar amp that comes with a $1250 _optional_ PSU which is not really optional if you know what I mean?


 

 2,000 Amp/DAC with 'optional' 1250 psu. Better off getting a great amp/dac with a beefy ps..


----------



## Lornecherry

If this voices like Meridian's legendary 508.24 then those that have heard that, will want to hear/own this. In it's day, the 508.24 was considered perhaps the only digital source that approached vinyl, or that the very least, sounded analogue. Used 508.24s, if you can find them, still comand around $1,000.
  
 The 508.24 and Meridian sound in general, has a very relaxed non-fatiguing signature. (I find some Chord products and Audio Aero products, all high end, to also have that "vinyl"-like sound). So, if it's a DAC first with headphone amp tacked on, let's see how it stacks up against other 2Kish DACs, (Chord Qute, Ayre, etc.). Then we'll worry about the wall-wart issue...which to me seems more like a marketing error...as I'd rather have a $3250 DAC with 100% of the Meridian house sound, then a $2,000 box that's only 85% there.
  
 Internals be damned, the only true test is a shootout with price competing competitors (top-shelf ALO comes to mind). And it better sound as good as the better 2-2.5K stand-alone DACs out there (Ayre, Chord, etc.). If it does, I could care less if the internal components cost $50... we don't listen to the cost of the components, or even the engineering, we listen to the sound.


----------



## Chris J

lornecherry said:


> If this voices like Meridian's legendary 508.24 then those that have heard that, will want to hear/own this. In it's day, the 508.24 was considered perhaps the only digital source that approached vinyl, or that the very least, sounded analogue. Used 508.24s, if you can find them, still comand around $1,000.
> 
> The 508.24 and Meridian sound in general, has a very relaxed non-fatiguing signature. (I find some Chord products and Audio Aero products, all high end, to also have that "vinyl"-like sound). So, if it's a DAC first with headphone amp tacked on, let's see how it stacks up against other 2Kish DACs, (Chord Qute, Ayre, etc.). Then we'll worry about the wall-wart issue...which to me seems more like a marketing error...as I'd rather have a $3250 DAC with 100% of the Meridian house sound, then a $2,000 box that's only 85% there.
> 
> Internals be damned, the only true test is a shootout with price competing competitors (top-shelf ALO comes to mind). And it better sound as good as the better 2-2.5K stand-alone DACs out there (Ayre, Chord, etc.). If it does, I could care less if the internal components cost $50... we don't listen to the cost of the components, or even the engineering, we listen to the sound.


 
  
 I assume this is some type of joke.    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's almost offensive.


----------



## Gowry

I'm very interested in a comparison with the Naim DAC-V1 as well. I'm still trying to find a good pairing for my LCD-X. I can listen to a Naim here (and have. It sounds very, very nice), but I don't know anywhere here that I can listen to the meridian prime.


----------



## Hooster

chris j said:


> I assume this is some type of joke.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I didn't see the joke. Care to explain it?


----------



## Chris J

hooster said:


> I didn't see the joke. Care to explain it?


 
  
  
 the phrase "we don't listen to the engineering"
  
 Who do you think designs this stuff, the Tooth Fairy?
  
 It's like looking at a painting and ignoring or not acknowledging the artist.


----------



## GaryB

ticos442 said:


> @Gary B:
> 
> Well, I just pulled the trigger and ordered the 12V Channel Island Audio power supply unit.  If the unit is as good as their customer service, then I know I won't regret the purchase.  As you said, response has been immediate and personalized.  Thanks so much for the tip!
> 
> My expectations is that this unit will offer a subtle improvement, but I will have to test it very carefully and spend some time on it, as A/B comparisons will not be immediate as I'll need to switch the power supplies and trust my ears.  I should get it by early next week and will report my findings.  The best case scenario is that this configuration of the iFi on the USB 5V end and the Channels Islands Audio on the 12V end will perform for $530 as well or better as the $1,250 Meridian Power Supply.


 
  
 ticos442, have you received the Channel Islands power supply yet?  Any initial impressions?


----------



## ticos442

garyb said:


> ticos442, have you received the Channel Islands power supply yet?  Any initial impressions?


 

 I got the unit yesterday, and it's in burn-in mode at the moment.  Dusty recommended to run continuous music play for a couple of days to allow the capacitors in the unit to settle and go through multiple charge/discharge cycles.   I also have a head cold at the moment which is limiting my critical listening abilities.
  
 Will perform tests early next week and report back.


----------



## GaryB

Very good.  Did you end up using the supplied 2.5mm power cord for the Prime or did it require the 2.1mm adapter?
  
 Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## ticos442

garyb said:


> Very good.  Did you end up using the supplied 2.5mm power cord for the Prime or did it require the 2.1mm adapter?
> 
> Looking forward to your impressions.


 

 2.5mm power cord + the 2.1mm adapter.


----------



## GaryB

Thanks... I guess Dusty's guess regarding the size of the center pin was accurate.


----------



## BEASTly

That styling would go great with mac mini looks pretty cool may have to try to find a way to audition


----------



## ticos442

garyb said:


> Thanks... I guess Dusty's guess regarding the size of the center pin was accurate.


 

 My head cold unfortunately evolved to a full blown flu.  The flu is definitely a much bigger enemy to hi-fi enjoyment than wall warts...


----------



## GaryB

ticos442 said:


> My head cold unfortunately evolved to a full blown flu.  The flu is definitely a much bigger enemy to hi-fi enjoyment than wall warts...


 
  
 Having had both myself, I think I can attest to that although I suspect there are a few on this forum who might disagree. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Get well soon!


----------



## ticos442

garyb said:


> Having had both myself, I think I can attest to that although I suspect there are a few on this forum who might disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I performed today some preliminary comparisons.  My head still feels a bit clogged from the flu, so I will be performing much more thorough tests when I get better.
  
 Observations:
  
 1.  The difference between using Meridian's wall wart and the CI Audio power supply are indeed very subtle.  The main differences I hear when using one sets of headphones (the Ultrasone8), was a slightly tighter and more defined bass in several of the tracks I used for testing.  I did not sense any major differences in the higher notes like cymbals.
  
 2.  The difference was increased a notch when I plugged two sets of headphones at a volume level that was the maximum I could tolerate (about halfway in the volume dial).  The other headphones I connected was the Grado PS1000.  My guess is that the extra power requirement to drive two headphones at the same time created the extra advantage for the CI Audio power supply.  But again, the difference was evident only after performing several A/B comparisons, by switching the power supply as quickly as I could.   I was actually afraid to damage the amp after a few of these tests, so next time I do them, they would have to be after properly shutting the unit and powering it back again with the different power supplies.
  
 My initial reaction is that the wall wart is more than capable of handling full sized headphones at great sound quality.  The CI Audio power supply provided more muscle for multiple headphone connectivity (not sure that's my use case) and an overall slight sound improvement.  Having said all that, I'm glad I got the CI Audio unit and it will be staying home with me for a long time.
  
 My next set of full tests would involve comparing:
 1.  Meridian Prime by itself
 2.  Meridian Prime + iFi iUSBPower
 3.  Meridian Prime + CI Audio
 4.  Meridian Prime + iFi USBPower + CI Audio  (the configuration I'm currently enjoying)


----------



## GaryB

Very interesting... and perhaps not that surprising. I'm also curious how much of a difference you perceive when adding the iFi unit to the otherwise "stock" Prime.

Thanks again!


----------



## Todd

HI All,
  
 I am offering a loaner program for the Meridian Prime. You can sign up here... http://www.head-fi.org/t/695778/meridian-prime-loaner-program
  
 I think this unit sounds great and offers a lot. Here is your chance to try it and hear it for yourself...
  
 Todd


----------



## ticos442

todd said:


> HI All,
> 
> I am offering a loaner program for the Meridian Prime. You can sign up here... http://www.head-fi.org/t/695778/meridian-prime-loaner-program
> 
> ...


 

 Todd, I already own the Prime, and have been enjoying its gorgeous sound for almost a month.  Do you by chance have just the Meridian Power Supply for a standalone loaner so I can test and compare with my custom made mimic of the MPS?  As you can tell from this thread, there's a lot of discussion and questions related to the MPS, and how "optional" or not it is.


----------



## nicoch46

No thanks !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## shadow4

Noob question - will this also act as a preamp for a high end amp or powered speakers?


----------



## GaryB

Yes, absolutely.


----------



## Erling

Really interested in this as candidate for my first really serious and stay at home amp. But just one question: are people happy with having just the usb digital in and is it a problem that it's mini b? I didn't even know that high-definition was playable via usb (that's the level of my ignorance!)


----------



## Stoney

I just purchased this combo, quite by coincidence!  I am glad that Jude hears what I felt to be the great performance of the pair.  I'm feeding it from my iTunes files played by PureAudio software, although it sounds best with upsampling turned off.  Meridian has some proprietary processing and doesn't need the features of PureAudio S/W.  Yet, I have files with multiple rates and depths, and PureAudio manages those changes well, outputting the native file rate of each file.  iTunes doesn't do that, although one can set Audio Midi Setup to 192k... but then you are listening to iTunes poor upsampling. 
  
 Unfortunately, I am getting more ill (tumors in multiple bones and tissues, and spreading), and may not see the end of 2014, or even 6 months from now.  But the gear is giving me lots of pleasure and didn't break the bank. Indulge while I can! 
  
 Even sooner, I might lose hearing due to the most aggressive chemo that they have in their arsenal. Very ototoxic.  It starts with treble and goes from there... and there is also the possibility of sudden hearing loss.  
  
 I would welcome volunteers interested to buy this pair when my future-widow get stuck selling off my gear.  Send me a PM if you don't mind waiting until "I'm done" with them. Lots of other stuff (RSA SR-71B, Arrow 4G, HD650 with 2 Cardas cables—one balanced for the RSA—and tons of accessories and records/SACDs etc.  I can't bring myself to spend my last weeks selling stuff!)


----------



## Chris J

stoney said:


> I just purchased this combo, quite by coincidence!  I am glad that Jude hears what I felt to be the great performance of the pair.  I'm feeding it from my iTunes files played by PureAudio software, although it sounds best with upsampling turned off.  Meridian has some proprietary processing and doesn't need the features of PureAudio S/W.  Yet, I have files with multiple rates and depths, and PureAudio manages those changes well, outputting the native file rate of each file.  iTunes doesn't do that, although one can set Audio Midi Setup to 192k... but then you are listening to iTunes poor upsampling.
> 
> Unfortunately, I am getting more ill (tumors in multiple bones and tissues, and spreading), and may not see the end of 2014, or even 6 months from now.  But the gear is giving me lots of pleasure and didn't break the bank. Indulge while I can!
> 
> ...




So sorry to hear about your troubles, mate.
Have you tried posting some ads on Audiogon and Head Fi?
I've had good success selling some gear on those two websites.


----------



## zackzack

Wall wart & Meridian....


----------



## smial1966

zackzack said:


> Wall wart & Meridian....


----------



## starstern

_*Liquid Gold Balanced SS Amplifier   vs prime headphome amp anyone compared ?*_


----------



## smial1966

Good grief, why the huge and lurid coloured text?!?




starstern said:


> [COLOR=000000]_[COLOR=ABBB01]*Liquid Gold Balanced SS Amplifier   vs prime headphome amp anyone compared ?*[/COLOR]_[/COLOR]


----------



## starstern

Apologize if that aggravates you ;its was just as i couldn't changed the color to dark so i made it good with increase the size ,as well don't find  edit icon  to improve much neither


----------



## zackzack

You know how to make an entrance I can give you that


----------



## zackzack

Anyone compares this to McIntosh D100 yet? That will be interesting


----------



## Stil

zackzack said:


> Anyone compares this to McIntosh D100 yet? That will be interesting


 
 I listened to this at my dealer directly comparing the two.  I tested using an LCD-X.  While the meridian sounded really good (Better than the Director), compared to the D100, it was a bit more clouded/veiled sounding.  Sources were from Optical for both units, was listening mostly to rock.  The D100 sounded more neutral, with a bit less haze.  
  
 I did play with the crossfeed settings on the Prime and they change the sound, some settings are better for some sounds than others.  If I was to use those settings, setting 1 would probably be the one I would use.
  
 The headphone was driven directly from the Prime HP out and the D100 HP out when comparing.  
  
 Note:  This is the Prime w/o the new power supply, it was using the wall wart it came with, so your mile may vary.


----------



## zackzack

stil said:


> I listened to this at my dealer directly comparing the two.  I tested using an LCD-X.  While the meridian sounded really good (Better than the Director), compared to the D100, it was a bit more clouded/veiled sounding.  Sources were from Optical for both units, was listening mostly to rock.  *The D100 sounded more neutral, with a bit less haze.  *
> 
> I did play with the crossfeed settings on the Prime and they change the sound, some settings are better for some sounds than others.  If I was to use those settings, setting 1 would probably be the one I would use.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, that's right. The Power Supply. That is the one thing. The power supply that can be connected to the Prime also has a USB processing, supposedly to clean noisy interference. But some say that cleaning up the signal also robs it of its clarity.


----------



## Chris J

zackzack said:


> Yes, that's right. The Power Supply. That is the one thing. The power supply that can be connected to the Prime also has a USB processing, supposedly to clean noisy interference. But some say that cleaning up the signal also robs it of its clarity.




Now that's an odd statement: "cleaning up the signal robs it of it's clarity".
That is rather counter-intuitive?
Just curious, why would you say that?


----------



## buson160man

Come on this thing costs two thousand dollars and it comes with a wall wart power supply. This thing looks like a toy compared to something like the schiit middle priced offerings. I find it hard to believe this toy sounds anywhere near as good. Meridian is a rip off on a lot of their offerings. Some of them sound ok but their pricing is ridiculous.
    You can do much better with a lot of offerings in the primes price range. and probably something that costs a lot less.
  I would like to compare this thing to my ray samuels raptor I doubt it could hold a candle to it as a headphone amp.
   The power supply that comes with my raptor embarrasses the wall wart supply on this way overpriced thing.
 Meridian must think they are something special to charge this much for so little.(spelled rip off)


----------



## x838nwy

starstern said:


> [COLOR=000000]_[COLOR=ABBB01]*Liquid Gold Balanced SS Amplifier   vs prime headphome amp anyone compared ?*[/COLOR]_[/COLOR]




I have, though on separate occasions. And no, the prime isn't even close to matching the LAu. I'm not some kind of cavalli fan boy (but mr.cavalli is a great guy) but there really is no comparison that can be reasonably made, imo.

It was a short listen - 30 mins or so. But i felt the amp side of things i think it would be more sensible to compare the prime to my Lehmann Linear. Refined and detailed. Doesn't come anywhere close to the cavalli's layering and dynamics but a decent amplifier. I felt the prime's treble was smoother, but i cannot be certain. The rest, to these ears, sound very similar.

I didn't play with gain settings but it did an ok job with the shop's lcd-3.

The Dac side for which i had high hopes, was... Best left unused.

I don't mind that it comes with a wallwart. It could come with a mule and a bucket of ketchup as far as i'm concerned. But to me, while the Prime is a very solid effort on Meridian's part my humble opinion is that they priced it wrong. Buy the Hugo.


----------



## starstern

ok forget the BAKOON got something better to ask about comparison  http://www.masskobo.com/e/sale-e/m394.htm to the _*Liquid Gold Balanced SS Amplifier *_  ???


----------



## Gnomeplay

stoney said:


> I just purchased this combo, quite by coincidence!  I am glad that Jude hears what I felt to be the great performance of the pair.  I'm feeding it from my iTunes files played by PureAudio software, although it sounds best with upsampling turned off.  Meridian has some proprietary processing and doesn't need the features of PureAudio S/W.  Yet, I have files with multiple rates and depths, and PureAudio manages those changes well, outputting the native file rate of each file.  iTunes doesn't do that, although one can set Audio Midi Setup to 192k... but then you are listening to iTunes poor upsampling.
> 
> Unfortunately, I am getting more ill (tumors in multiple bones and tissues, and spreading), and may not see the end of 2014, or even 6 months from now.  But the gear is giving me lots of pleasure and didn't break the bank. Indulge while I can!
> 
> ...




This is probably the most heart wrenching thing I've read on Headfi.

Best of luck and God Bless.


----------



## Stoney

I'm still kicking and still listening.  
  
 The Meridian is still a joy to listen to.  By tweaking the settings on Pure Audio, I'm finding the synergies. Going to upsampling on Pure Audio does after all improve voiced to a scary degree... I seek realism without "enhancement" such a false "clarity" from emphasis of transients or treble and removal of grain or edginess which indeed can sound at first like more clarity. Meridian in general is brilliant at avoiding those pitfalls. I don't have time (ugh) or energy to compare, so I just grabbed it.  
  
 The LCD-X, I modified by adding a bit of spacer (short length of plastic tubing) to the "back side" of the inside (near the driver grille) of the earpiece.  This keeps it from collapsing as much from the headband force, and thus removes some of the excessive warmth.  Yet, there was still with this combination a lack of "illumination" of the upper voice partials and lower treble.  So I added a 1-2dB parametric boost around 5.5kHz and with a Q somewhere around 2.2.  Can click in and out at will.  Straight from iTunes I most often take it out.  But from Pure Audio, I put it in.  
  
 The upsampling setting on Pure Audio at first makes it seem less bright, not what I was looking for.  Yet over time, I realized that this setting removed a glare of sorts and now voices sound like the electronics between them and me is removed and I am hearing a real mouth, a real head, at a specific distance in a specific acoustic. Glare/edge gone.  Good Donald Fagan now sounds like the real guy, for example.  Treble is cleaned up, and sometimes I miss the energy in the lower treble, but over time I've noticed that shakers, bells, cymbals, etc sound real in ways they didn't before.  I recognize real instruments whereas before I was more focused on the sound but didn't "get" it as a real instrument I can go out and buy. So, voices and instruments now sound more like themselves rather than some trick of production that had turned it into a more artificial but exciting sound. 
  
 I'm sure there are better, but this amp also has enough energy to drive the X rather well, whereas the similarly priced Chord did not have as much power/voltage.  Plus the recessed, smooth volume control in the Chord drove me nuts.  This one has a "champagne glass" shaped knob I can hit while half asleep in my recliner to tweak to my heart's desires.


----------



## pytter

stoney said:


> I just purchased this combo, quite by coincidence!  I am glad that Jude hears what I felt to be the great performance of the pair.  I'm feeding it from my iTunes files played by PureAudio software, although it sounds best with upsampling turned off.  Meridian has some proprietary processing and doesn't need the features of PureAudio S/W.  Yet, I have files with multiple rates and depths, and PureAudio manages those changes well, outputting the native file rate of each file.  iTunes doesn't do that, although one can set Audio Midi Setup to 192k... but then you are listening to iTunes poor upsampling.
> 
> Unfortunately, I am getting more ill (tumors in multiple bones and tissues, and spreading), and may not see the end of 2014, or even 6 months from now.  But the gear is giving me lots of pleasure and didn't break the bank. Indulge while I can!
> 
> ...




Very sorry to hear of your predicament. I do hope you are with us longer and are able to keep enjoying your music for as long as possible.

I am sure Jude and the rest if the Head-Fi community will be happy to help your spouse get a good return on your music investments on the classifieds when she needs our help.....


----------



## stefofmars

someone has tried the beyerdynamic T1 with prime?


----------



## jude

​
NOTE:  If you can't see the embedded video above, please *CLICK HERE* to see the video.​  
  
 In this episode of Head-Fi TV, we talk about the Prime -- a DAC and headphone amplifier combination from the legendary English audio company, Meridian. We also talk about headphones that work well with the Prime, as well as the optional (or not) Prime Power Supply. Stay tuned!
  
  
 Products mentioned in the video:

  

*Meridian Prime* DAC/headphone amplifier
*Meridian Explorer* portable DAC/headphone amplifier
*Meridian Prime Power Supply* power supply for the Meridian Prime and other Meridian products
*Meridian MCD* CD Player
*Meridian 203* DAC
*Meridian 200* Compact Disc Transport
*Meridian 565* Surround Sound Processor
*Meridian 508* 24-Bit CD Player
*Chord Electronics Hugo* portable DAC/headphone amplifier
*HiFIMAN HE-6* planar magnetic headphone
*Sennheiser HD 800* over-ear headphone
*Sennheiser HDVD 800* desktop headphone amplifier and DAC
*MrSpeakers Alpha Dog* over-ear headphone
*NAD VISO HP50* over-ear headphone
*AKG K812* over-ear headphone
*Oppo PM-1* planar magnetic headphone
*Audeze LCD-X* planar magnetic headphone
*Jerry Harvey Audio Sirens Series Roxanne* custom in-ear monitor
*Ultimate Ears In-Ear Reference Monitors* custom in-ear monitor
*FitEar MH334* custom in-ear monitor
*Sennheiser IE 800* universal-fit in-ear monitor
*Schiit Audio Raganarok* universal amplifier
  

  

_Meridian Prime - Head-Fi TV _produced by Joseph Cwik and Jude Mansilla
  
  

 We will occasionally post Q&A episodes of Head-Fi TV.  If you want to submit any questions (or comments), you can do so via email to *tv@head-fi.org*.


----------



## barid

...partially smoked cigar.


----------



## HeyWaj10

Jude: You are extremely good at what you do, man.  Seriously...such a well put together piece, and truly useful information/opinions on the performance capabilities.  No fluff, no bias, just a straight-forward and thought-out review.  Certainly makes this piece a great contender on the market.


----------



## TwoEars

No toslink or rca inputs is a deal killer.
  
 And 1250 for the power supply? Come on.... that's a bit much isn't it.


----------



## XVampireX

Didn't you people notice him happily saying Schiit Ragnarok several times? 
  
 jude, we're waiting for the full video review


----------



## bigfatpaulie

xvampirex said:


> Didn't you people notice him happily saying *Schiit Ragnarok* several times?
> 
> jude, we're waiting for the full video review


 
  
 Hunh.  Never heard of it.


----------



## zackzack

smial1966 said:


> Good grief, why the huge and lurid coloured text?!?


 
  


starstern said:


> _*Liquid Gold Balanced SS Amplifier   vs prime headphome amp anyone compared ?*_


----------



## AJHeadfi

I believe I felt the Meridian signature sound as "dry". Can anybody corroborate that? It has been sometime since I have heard a Meridian, years. Seems to be an interesting addition to the ever increasing number of headphone amplifiers, particularly on the tech processing front.


----------



## Borbarad

Finally a great overview about the Meridian Prime! Thanks for the Video.
 I just placed an order. Should arrive in about two weeks. Anyway.

 I currently have the B&W P7 (somehow not so positively rated but I think its a great one and probably the best in the up to 500,- class) and the Meridian Explorer.
 I was always thinking about the prime as great single Desktop solution (4 in1: Dac, AMP, PreAmp sand & Meridian „DSP“) but I was not able to listen to one until the a week avon during the HighEnd 2014 in Munich.
 Its definitely a great step up from the Explorer in every regards and the sound improvement is massive. Even with the P7 there was a new level of clarity and power. But I also had the chance to test the Prime at the Audeze booth and yep I have to agree. Awesome sound and a very special pairing.

 And by the way I also had the chance to listen to the McIntosh MDH100. What a lovely beast.
  
 B


----------



## jayboy76

Subbed. Definitely more of a headphone amp with a dac thrown in than the other way around. The way it controls my xc effortlessly is pure audio bliss, from edm to vocals. Especially impressed with its cross feed implementation.


----------



## starstern

the prime headphone amp does it as good as the masskobo 394 balance headphone amp ?


----------



## Hooster

starstern said:


> the prime headphone amp does it as good as the masskobo 394 balance headphone amp ?


 
  
 The Masskobo is far more more expensive than the Meridian. It would be very surprising if the Meridian is as good as the Masskobo.


----------



## gadgetheaven

Hi Folks,
  
 Based on the recent video review i pulled the trigger after receiving a faulty Chord Hugo.  While i liked the sound from the Hugo with my redbook Decca classical,  i am finding the Prime and the Prime PSU bests the Hugo.  Absolutely loving it.  Sitting listening to Strauss right this moment tapping my feet.  Best of all i am not having to upsample any of my redbook in software,  the DSP code on the Prime seems to do a brilliant job of getting the most out of the recordings.  Its that good that i've not even tried any 192KHz downloads yet.  As for the Chord,  i went to plug in for a second charge and the charge stopped working.  I also found a loose screw on the bottom of the casing.  I think the build quality of Meridian is better than the Hugo as well.
  
 It's ashamed i was so late to get a decent DAC as I am saddened that in the past few weeks my best friend and HiFi buddy is terminally ill and will never get to hear the Prime on his system.  I will think of him while i enjoy our favourite classical music on the Meridian.


----------



## rgs9200m

If you are interested in the Prime just for a DAC, think of the Meridian Direct DAC (renamed from the Director). The Director has kind of fallen off the map, but I'm finding it to be basically end-game for me in my desktop system,
 with a very natural sound and no digititus or glare. It's working very well with all the phones I'm thrown at it that can sometimes have some aggressive highs or over-plump bass.
 These are the TH900, the LCD3, and the Grado GS1000i. (It's also superb with my PM-1.) 
 I'm using a AQ Carbon USB cable.
  
 I *think* the DAC in the Prime is the same as in the Direct, and I read here that one person subjectively thinks they sound equivalent.
  
 The Direct has a fine amount of detail, and is great with vocals, with no grain, no upper-mid glare or shout (sometimes an issue on the TH900), but is not cloaked at all. 
 I like the fact that Direct works with phones with all different signatures, bringing out the deep bass in the LCD3s, and bringing life and air into the PM-1,
 taming the GS1000i highs just perfectly and firming up its bass nicely.
  
 I guess this should be in the Director thread, but not too many people read that, and I think the Prime should have the same sonics (just guessing, but maybe some Meridian fans could confirm this, as I have not heard the Prime).


----------



## jayboy76

I use my prime 70% as a headphone amp via its rca ins and 30% as a dac. Truth be told I was not very impressed first round when I heard it via its dac section when compared to my Chord Hugo. 2nd listen via its analogue in was a whole different matter. The control of the prime in being so rhythmic and controlled in a sublime way made me sit up. Turning on its crossover implementation sealed the deal for me. I really recommend the prime as a strong contender for a headphone amp that drives full size cans well, with the crossover implementation, the dac section to me is purely a bonus and I use it sparingly. 

On a side note, I find turning the stereo section off with the prime only driving 1 headphones lends a more sublime rhythmic drive that is readily apparent with percussive music .


----------



## Bartez75

Spec doesn't say what is the power of this amp or I can't find it. Do you know what is the output power?


----------



## obsidyen

jude, how do you think Prime compares to Hugo (with and/or without the optional PSU)?


----------



## Borbarad

I'm really enjoying the awesome Meridian Prime. Don't have the Power Supply Unit but starting to wonder what is it really for or why was made in such away. Is Meridian planning something more with their personal audio line? Because this somehow screams for a small amp to power bookshelf speakers or phono amp or....


B


----------



## Royalorgans

Recently, I had the pleasure of listening to some classical recording through a pair Yamaha HS-10 speakers, Shure MDR-7506 headphones with the new Universal Audio Apollo Twin Duo professional interface. Do you think the DAc in the Chord Hugo is better with giving the clarity and feeling then the dac in the Apollo Twin duo? Do you think the dac in the apollo is better then the dac in the AK-240 player? If I'm listening to classical music from a enjoying feeling but analytical feeling, Do you think it neccesary to get the chord hugo to play classial wav files of artist such as Luciano Pavarotti, Joan Sutherland. would the chord hugo show more technique then the dac in the Apollo twin duo? What you opinion?
  
 Lastly, IF I get the Chord Hugo, would it makes since to get the meridian prime? Which sounds the best in terms of accuracy and presence and showing microscopic detail of the singer (not so much the recording)?
  
 If wanting to hear presence that one can touch the singers voices and actually tell what technique he or she is using or maybe even visualize the amount of breath they are singing. Do you think the HD-800 headphones with the Meridian Prime and/or Chord Hugo is enough or should I opted for anouther headphone and amp.


----------



## obsidyen

royalorgans said:


> Recently, I had the pleasure of listening to some classical recording through a pair Yamaha HS-10 speakers, Shure MDR-7506 headphones with the new Universal Audio Apollo Twin Duo professional interface. Do you think the DAc in the Chord Hugo is better with giving the clarity and feeling then the dac in the Apollo Twin duo? Do you think the dac in the apollo is better then the dac in the AK-240 player? If I'm listening to classical music from a enjoying feeling but analytical feeling, Do you think it neccesary to get the chord hugo to play classial wav files of artist such as Luciano Pavarotti, Joan Sutherland. would the chord hugo show more technique then the dac in the Apollo twin duo? What you opinion?
> 
> Lastly, IF I get the Chord Hugo, would it makes since to get the meridian prime? Which sounds the best in terms of accuracy and presence and showing microscopic detail of the singer (not so much the recording)?
> 
> If wanting to hear presence that one can touch the singers voices and actually tell what technique he or she is using or maybe even visualize the amount of breath they are singing. Do you think the HD-800 headphones with the Meridian Prime and/or Chord Hugo is enough or should I opted for anouther headphone and amp.


 

 I think both are enough but if you want a very powerful amp, pairing Vioelectric V200 amp with a Meridian Director dac will also give you a very good sound and power to drive HD800s or any other headphones easily


----------



## Borbarad

A good review, if someone is interested:
  
 http://hometheaterhifi.com/headphone-amplifiers/headphone-amplifiers/meridian-prime-headphone-amplifier-prime-power-supply-review.html
  
 I'm still really happy with mine. It rocks!
  
 B


----------



## Borbarad

Well.... Thait is the issue with HighEnd Audio. I'm starting to think about the Merdian PSU... To buy or not to....... 

Hmmm.....

B


----------



## Ultrainferno

I couldn't hear a lot of difference with the PSU. Power here is pretty clean already. if there was any difference it was in the bass (tightness) but I wouldn't recommend it personally. That being said: it looks so cool as a combo


----------



## obsidyen

borbarad said:


> A good review, if someone is interested:
> 
> http://hometheaterhifi.com/headphone-amplifiers/headphone-amplifiers/meridian-prime-headphone-amplifier-prime-power-supply-review.html
> 
> ...


 

 Remember that you'll be paying for just 5% better sound, that is if your ears are sensitive enough to hear the difference. I'd rather buy Fostex TH900s instead.


----------



## Borbarad

Well, I couldn't resist... just bought one PSU.
  
 Holy cr*p! I though also just of about 5% improvement... but **"%*&4.. I would guess its close to 15-20%.
  
 So, while it was about 900,- EUR... its worth quite a lot. Definitely on improvement in omph, and cripsness, sharpness..probably even claritiy.
  
 Yep, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 B


----------



## Ultrainferno

You must have some bad power there


----------



## Borbarad

Well, there is quite a lot connected ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  MacPro, Monitors, A2 Printer, Chargers.......
  
 B


----------



## obsidyen

Yes, if there's bad power you might hear a bigger difference. Especially in old buildings.


----------



## Borbarad

http://www.musicischanging.com/
  
 In the light of the Meridian MQA announcement there has been some good news for us Meridian Prime Users. The Prime is also ready for MQA. That's why the fourth "currently unused" LED (right after 4x) is installed.
  
 https://www.facebook.com/MeridianAudio/photos/pcb.10152797108926136/10152797108671136/?type=1&theater
  

  
  
 B


----------



## jayboy76

This is very exciting news for an already very exciting amp.


----------



## Borbarad

Now its official as well:
 https://www.meridian-audio.com/sounds-too-good-but-true/
  
 And a new Video from the MQA release party:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKHQOKd7DfI
  
 B


----------



## Hooster

They do a good job of hyping MQA up, but these days it seems irrelevant. It would have been very useful about 4+ years ago, but now storage is cheap.


----------



## PhilW

hooster said:


> They do a good job of hyping MQA up, but these days it seems irrelevant. It would have been very useful about 4+ years ago, but now storage is cheap.


 it's not about the storage!


----------



## Hooster

philw said:


> it's not about the storage!


 
  
 Ok, what does MQA do that hi res files do not?


----------



## PhilW

Timing


----------



## Borbarad

Yes, and as far I understand to be able to stream/reproduce the "Original Master file" "lossless".

But we have to wait for January and CES for more information

B


----------



## Hooster

"Timing"
  
 To think, that users of hi res audio have been subjected to useless timing all these years. It's a criminal travesty! Thank heavens for Meridian for re setting our clocks, so we can finally hear the right thing at the right time. Please, where can I get some of this MQA stuff?


----------



## obsidyen

hooster said:


> "Timing"
> 
> To think, that users of hi res audio have been subjected to useless timing all these years. It's a criminal travesty! Thank heavens for Meridian for re setting our clocks, so we can finally hear the right thing at the right time. Please, where can I get some of this MQA stuff?


 

 I think MQA mastered albums will be released in early 2015 but you need dacs than can decode MQA (such as Explorer2 or Prime) for that. HA-1 can't do that.


----------



## Hooster

obsidyen said:


> I think MQA mastered albums will be released in early 2015 but you need dacs than can decode MQA (such as Explorer2 or Prime) for that. HA-1 can't do that.


 
  
 Meridian is the one who's timing is off. As far as I am concerned MQA is already obsolete and I am not interested. They can keep it.


----------



## obsidyen

hooster said:


> Meridian is the one who's timing is off. As far as I am concerned MQA is already obsolete and I am not interested. They can keep it.


 

 Ok, suit yourself.


----------



## svdespedida

I just received the headphone amp for Christmas and after connecting to both a Mac and Macbook Air I can not get the amp to stop clicking in and out. The sound come out of the headphones intermittently as well.
 Has anyone experienced this problem?
 John


----------



## Borbarad

Connected via a USB Hub? Because the USB Section is powered via the USB Port, not the Amp circuit.

B


----------



## Hooster

svdespedida said:


> I just received the headphone amp for Christmas and after connecting to both a Mac and Macbook Air I can not get the amp to stop clicking in and out. The sound come out of the headphones intermittently as well.
> Has anyone experienced this problem?
> John


 

 Sorry to hear that. I hate it when new toys don't behave. I would just suggest double checking the instructions. Check your connections, break them and re break them. Try a different USB cable. Try connecting to a powered USB hub from Mac, and thence to Meridian. The best of luck!


----------



## lamode

Thanks for the video review. I would be VERY interested to hear the Meridian Prime/Audeze LCD-X setup. That might be my dream combination. Now where did I put that winning lottery ticket..


----------



## seeteeyou

CES 2015: Tidal to launch high-res streaming service using Meridian MQA
  
 http://www.whathifi.com/news/ces-2015-tidal-to-launch-high-res-streaming-service-using-meridian-mqa
  
 Super exciting news, fantastic year to come.


----------



## lamode

hooster said:


> Ok, what does MQA do that hi res files do not?


 
  
 Smaller file sizes which are good for streaming high-res audio. So, not very useful.
  


borbarad said:


> Yes, and as far I understand to be able to stream/reproduce the "Original Master file" "lossless".


 
  
 ...just like FLAC, APE, ALAC, etc. Don't believe the hype.


----------



## obsidyen

Why wouldn't he believe the "hype"? Have you heard an MQA file?.. No need to be prejudiced. MQA is more than "smaller files for streaming high-res audio" by the way.


----------



## lamode

obsidyen said:


> Why wouldn't he believe the "hype"? Have you heard an MQA file?.. No need to be prejudiced. MQA is more than "smaller files for streaming high-res audio" by the way.


 
  
 Well, all high-res audio is hype, so this is hype upon hype 
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ


----------



## obsidyen

lamode said:


> Well, all high-res audio is hype, so this is hype upon hype
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ


 
 I'll watch the vid when I get home, thanks for the link.
  
 There are a lot of factors though. A poorly mastered album won't sound any better just because it's in high-res. You might need really high quality gear to hear a difference (professional monitoring gear or high-end speakers etc.)... I agree that in most cases a well mastered cd quality is the highest quality we can hear though. That said, MQA sounds promising because it's applied at mastering process. It's not an  "let's get this file and upsample it to high-res, audiophile idiots won't notice" situation. Meridian takes a different approach here. It's not only about making high-res files smaller. We should wait and see.


----------



## Hooster

> I agree that in most cases a well mastered cd quality is the highest quality we can hear though.


 
  





  
 CD is a severely compromised and outdated format. It was designed in a long bygone era. The design criteria were, it should be a disk. It should fit into a car stereo head unit. It should contain as much data as possible. Well that was the stone age. These days we can, and should have access to far higher quality files than what is available from a CD. We can easily store far more date in far less space than we could back then.
  
 How can hi res be better than a CD? Dynamic range, instrument separation, sense of space, etc. These all improve, but ONLY if your system is good enough to show these differences.
  
 Why do we still seem to be stuck in the CD resolution age?
  
 1. Most people do not have a system that makes better then CD quality worthwhile, so they just don't care, and will not pay more for hi res.
  
 2. The recording industry is a total and utter mess, with a jumble of middle men, that all want a cut, and all have a deadly fear of a simple system that will allow consumers to buy what they want, artists to be paid and the main recording company taking their fair share. The hysterical copy right protection and regional protectionism has hamstrung development. For example, I can't get Tidal, because I live in the wrong part of the world! Of course I could circumvent their silly protection but I just can not be bothered.
  
 3. An unhealthy and unproductive focus on home theatre with people spending money on a disorganized mass of cables, speakers, amplifiers and processors that has taken the impetus away from real improvements in audio quality.


----------



## Borbarad

Any news when the MQA Update for Prime is due?
  
 B


----------



## cas77

Hi,
 the very first USA MQA Event:
  
http://www.stereophile.com/content/meridian-dem-mqa-audio-high-thursday
  
http://www.audiohigh.com/MQA-Release-Event.php


----------



## jayboy76

Wow. I read that MQA encoded files available for download from Audio High's website so it seems. Finally we will all get a listen to this MQA thingy.


----------



## audionewbi

Does anyone know if MQA can be implemented in this?


----------



## Borbarad

audionewbi said:


> Does anyone know if MQA can be implemented in this?


 

 Yes, it is made for MQA. Thats why there is a  fourth LED beside the "4x". That's for MQA and Meridan has MQA enabled Prime at their presentations.
  
 But when the big Firmware Update is arround the corner... well.....??????
  
 B


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## audionewbi

That makes thing interesting.


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## cas77

World First - Meridian Firmware Update Enables MQA Playback
  
  
 https://www.meridian-audio.com/news-events/world-first-meridian-firmware-update-enables-mqa-playback/


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## jayboy76

Finally! Im excited!


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## audionewbi

jayboy76 said:


> Finally! Im excited!


 
 Will you be able to give a quick feedback on how Prime compares against HUGO? Thanks in advance.


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## Borbarad

audionewbi said:


> Will you be able to give a quick feedback on how Prime compares against HUGO? Thanks in advance.


 
  
  
 From what Ive heared very similar.
  
 I use my Prime +Power Supply to get the best out of both worlds: Vinyl (Transrotor) and USB Audio (Mac). Lets see what MQA brings to the table.
  
 B


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## Borbarad

Firmware is up!
  
 Update is easy but you have to bypass the Power Supply -> USB direct in Prime.
  
 Now, we need test Tracks. 2L has some and you can hear some difference, but I’m more in for POP/Rock. The Kate Bush Sample track apparently is very good but cannot find.
  
 B


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## cas77

It was not necessary for me to bypass the PSU.


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## cas77

For the sample go to the Onkyomusic


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## jayboy76

Did anybody managed to get the blue mqa indicator light turned on? Playing mqa test tracks from 2L using jriver and it still stays at "1x" sample rate indicator.

Pls do share what software player everyone is using that turns on the mqa decoding of the prime. Tx!


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## cas77

Yes, it works.
 My Explorer² indicates the MQA with the blue/green LED and the sampling with the white LED(s).
 My PHA is the early type. It indicates the MQA and the sampling with a white LED(s).
 From Meridian:
 "When the Prime Headphone Amplifier (PHA) was first released, the 4th white LED was the only indication that MQA material is being decoded and played back. On later (current) version, they the same indicator LED as the Explorer² (blue/green)"
 I use Roon 1.1 and JRiver 21, ASIO or WASAPI (in exclusive mode).
 All 2L MQA recording versions sound very, very good. And for me much better than the 24/192 kHz ones.
 Have you downloaded the MQAs from 2L?  ( www.2L.no/hires/index.html )


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## audionewbi

I just noticed something interesting


"Three front-panel headphone sockets are provided, optimised for purpose. One is a 3.5mm stereo socket for the connection of earbuds and similar devices, which presents an output impedance of 2Ω to suit these devices. The other two sockets offer an exceptionally low impedance (around 3mΩ) and are standard 1/4in stereo (tip-ring-sleeve) types, carrying both channels. They can be used to connect two pairs of headphones, or *to attach a single pair of headphones wired with separate cords for left and right drivers, thus offering the opportunity to reduce headphone crosstalk.*"

Anyone tried this?

Source:https://www.meridian-audio.com/products/computer-audio/prime-headphone-amplifier/


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## sheldaze

audionewbi said:


> I just noticed something interesting
> 
> 
> "Three front-panel headphone sockets are provided, optimised for purpose. One is a 3.5mm stereo socket for the connection of earbuds and similar devices, which presents an output impedance of 2Ω to suit these devices. The other two sockets offer an exceptionally low impedance (around 3mΩ) and are standard 1/4in stereo (tip-ring-sleeve) types, carrying both channels. They can be used to connect two pairs of headphones, or *to attach a single pair of headphones wired with separate cords for left and right drivers, thus offering the opportunity to reduce headphone crosstalk.*"
> ...


 
 I assume the wire would be terminated in a 1/4" TRS pair on one side and 4-pin XLR on the other. Where would one locate such a wire?


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## audionewbi

sheldaze said:


> I assume the wire would be terminated in a 1/4" TRS pair on one side and 4-pin XLR on the other. Where would one locate such a wire?


 
 It can be custom made bay all cable makers.


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## sheldaze

audionewbi said:


> It can be custom made bay all cable makers.


 
 Will be a while then. But interested to try!


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## audionewbi

sheldaze said:


> Will be a while then. But interested to try!


 
 First we need to conform whether what is said is actually true, as far as I did my research no one has tried using the balance headphone out using 1/4 inch trs jacks.


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## sheldaze

audionewbi said:


> First we need to conform whether what is said is actually true, as far as I did my research no one has tried using the balance headphone out using 1/4 inch trs jacks.


 
 Most the time, as with Pono and Ayre Codex, there is a mechanism built-in so that only the left channels go out the left TRS and vice for the right. That's why it concerns me a little to ask a cable maker to do something odd - connect the ground on both cables, but only the right out of the right channel and vice on the left. Since I don't have the amplifier in my possession, I'll also first be listening as-is to see how well it performs. If it does well, I may just post back out and say - happy!
  
 It's not supposed to be for HE-6. But I'm expecting good things with HD800S and HE1000.


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## jayboy76

Can prime owners comment on synergy with LCD4? I'm hoping to get one but worry about if the prime drives it competently like how it powers my lcd3fs now.


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## sheldaze

jayboy76 said:


> Can prime owners comment on synergy with LCD4? I'm hoping to get one but worry about if the prime drives it competently like how it powers my lcd3fs now.


 
 Recall that Jude said he could power Abyss and HE-6, in a pinch.
  
 ::
  
 How much volume are you looking to use? How much do you use currently with your LCD-3?
  
 I have been quite pleased by how well it drives HE1K. And I have heard HE1K (mine) and LCD-4 (at a recent meet) powered by the same amplifier, at basically the same volume. No - it was not the Prime. But I do not expect any trouble if you plan to use the Prime with LCD-4.


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## jayboy76

Thanks Sheldaze, what u say makes sense!


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## JamieCole

Hello everyone, and happy holidays! Mind if I ask why there haven't been any posts to this thread in few months? Are folks still enjoying the Prime?
  
 I came across the Prime a few weeks ago and it's piqued my interest. It helps that it's currently $999.00 on Amazon, which seems like a deal compared to the original $2k figure. Does anyone have experience with the Prime and Fostex TH line (TH-X00 and 900 specifically)? I'm currently using a Grace m9XX but like the form factor and technology of the Prime (filters, MQA support, ASP, etc.), and Meridian house sound. Anyhow, any thoughts or comments would be helpful.
  
 Oh, my chain is MBP>QNAP>Tidal>Roon and I listen to pretty much everything but my favorites are indie, punk, hardcore, hip hop, classical, electronic/downtempo, and some pop.
  
 Cheers!


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## JamieCole

@sheldaze I believe you have the Grace m9XX as well. Any thoughts or comments between the two setups? 
  
 I do like my Grace, quite a bit actually. But, I also like the Meridian house sound. It's one of the few all-in-one setups I'd actually consider over the Grace. 
  
 Many thanks!


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## sheldaze

jamiecole said:


> @sheldaze I believe you have the Grace m9XX as well. Any thoughts or comments between the two setups?
> 
> I do like my Grace, quite a bit actually. But, I also like the Meridian house sound. It's one of the few all-in-one setups I'd actually consider over the Grace.
> 
> Many thanks!


 
 Kind of a tough comparison - these two products are each seeking things, which are so different from each other.
  
 The Grace is paramount a DAC. They even wrote custom software, as I understand it, to extend the 4490 chipset as far as it can go. However the amplifier portion is limited. It is not volume limited, but does not sound as clean and free of distortion as a dedicated amplifier should - not going to be as good as their m920. I've fed the output from the m9xx into amplifiers, such as Moon NEO 230HAD or the Cavalli Liquid Carbon with excellent results. While I can use the m9XX as a complete product, DAC and AMP, it is not something I would personally listen to as an all day primary system.
  
 The Meridian Prime is an amplifier first. It excels at exactly those things that the Grace cannot do - clear, distortion-free, dynamic sound. But it's DAC has the Meridian processing, which is a blessing and a curse. It is not your typical DAC sound. I've owned the Explorer, Director and Prime. Meaning I've enjoyed how each sounded. I feel today that something like a Gumby exceeds this Meridian sound, so that's more the path I've taken. But I've had many sessions, where I enjoyed the entire product - DAC through to amplifier, into something like a high end Grado headphone. This is something I would listen to for many hours. The Meridian processing, and the clean amplifier power, did wonders for this sonic nirvana.


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## zerogorgor

jamiecole said:


> Hello everyone, and happy holidays! Mind if I ask why there haven't been any posts to this thread in few months? Are folks still enjoying the Prime?
> 
> I came across the Prime a few weeks ago and it's piqued my interest. It helps that it's currently $999.00 on Amazon, which seems like a deal compared to the original $2k figure. Does anyone have experience with the Prime and Fostex TH line (TH-X00 and 900 specifically)? I'm currently using a Grace m9XX but like the form factor and technology of the Prime (filters, MQA support, ASP, etc.), and Meridian house sound. Anyhow, any thoughts or comments would be helpful.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah. This is the forth time I am writing this reply. Couldn't find the right words for the first three times, and Chrome forced me to kill the page upon the forth. 
  
 I got my Prime HPA with the Prime Power Supply at a nearly criminal price from a very good friend of mine, but even so I am afraid I would not say I "LOVE" the set. Prime is not bad, but it is not all too easy going. My headphones/earphones don't pair up well with the Prime (listed below). I am still exploring how to appreciate it, but it has not been a very fruitful journey.
  
 One very interesting thing I find about the Prime is that the reviews/impressions online are not wrong or not legit per se, but I would not take them as the perfect reference. I usually read reviews and impressions when I get a new toy, and compare my own impressions with them. When I first listened to Prime and read the reviews, I felt like "well I would not really say that", but then after listening for a longer period, it went like "well I would not really say that but you are not wrong". 
  
 To me, there is an adjustment session every time I listen to my Prime. It is not that the Prime set is bad, but somehow I feel unused to it, I feel uneasy with its presentation at times, but this peculiar feeling makes the Prime interesting, even intriguing. But most of the time I go back to my other set up.
  
 ***
  
 Headphones: German MAESTRO GMP450 Pro, Sennheiser HD600
 Earphones: Etymotic ER4S, Ocharaku Donguri-KEYAKI, Ocharaku/Olasonic TH-4FN, qdc 4SS


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## JamieCole

sheldaze said:


> Kind of a tough comparison - these two products are each seeking things, which are so different from each other...


 
  


zerogorgor said:


> Ah. This is the forth time I am writing this reply. Couldn't find the right words for the first three times, and Chrome forced me to kill the page upon the forth...


 
  
 Thank you both for your comments! I found it odd that this thread has so few posts for such a (seemingly) nice bit of kit, and a Meridian product at that. Your responses have certainly steered me away from the Prime. I was intrigued but I really enjoy my Grace and will stick with it for the time being. For small desktop listening and low impedance headphones, Grace is hard to beat. But, maybe Chord has an announcement that'll sway me another way? We'll see. 
  
 Cheers, and thanks again! Happy New Year.


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## obsidyen

zerogorgor said:


> Ah. This is the forth time I am writing this reply. Couldn't find the right words for the first three times, and Chrome forced me to kill the page upon the forth.
> 
> I got my Prime HPA with the Prime Power Supply at a nearly criminal price from a very good friend of mine, but even so I am afraid I would not say I "LOVE" the set. Prime is not bad, but it is not all too easy going. My headphones/earphones don't pair up well with the Prime (listed below). I am still exploring how to appreciate it, but it has not been a very fruitful journey.
> 
> ...


 

 How would you describe its presentation?
  
 Meridian has a special house sound used by their own DSPs, you either love it or hate it.


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## zerogorgor

I tried typing some impressions, but Chrome killed the page and all the text is gone. Too bad, but this is all too discouraging.
  
 Anyways, Happy New Year!


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## mswlogo

obsidyen said:


> How would you describe its presentation?
> 
> Meridian has a special house sound used by their own DSPs, you either love it or hate it.


 
  
 I hate when people say Meridian "House Sound". Meridian DAC/AMP sounds NOTHING like their DSP Speakers and do not implement their "hybrid volume" control that they have used for eons in their Preamps and DSP Speakers.
  
 Your choice of headphones will dictate the bulk of the "House Sound".
  
 The Meridian Prime Preamp uses off the shelf DAC's with an Off the Shelf Op-Amp with an Off the Shelf Attenuator. What is "House Sound" about that?
  
 They even used the upsampling of the DAC Chip in the earlier on Explorer 1.
  
 The only thing "signature" is the Apodizing Filter and that only kicks in when they upsample. When listening to MQA there is no upsampling or when listening to hi-res.


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## mswlogo

I've posted my Meridian Prime Headphone Amp review in the Reviews section if anyone is curious.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/products/meridian-prime-headphone-amplifier/reviews/18160


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## Hooster

mswlogo said:


> I've posted my Meridian Prime Headphone Amp review in the Reviews section if anyone is curious.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/meridian-prime-headphone-amplifier/reviews/18160


 
  
 Great work on that review.


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## Rocker UK

I am very tempted to buy one of these but am a bit confused by some of the technology so hope someone can help me:

1 - If I connect the Prime to my iMac via the USB connection am I using the DAC and amp in the Prime or are there settings I need to adjust to do this?

2 - Does the USB connection decode 24/96 files ok?

3 - If I wanted to connect an iMac using the analogue/RCA inputs which output from the iMac would I use (USB? Optical?) and which cables would I need?

4 - Does the Prime decode MQA? (I have read different reports hence why I am asking)

Sorry for so many basic questions - just need to know before I buy.

I was actually going to buy an Explorer 2 but not sure whether this would be good enough from my iMac.

Thank you very much for any help.


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## Dynaudio lvr

My thoughts on the Meridian Prime.(using the Prime Power Supply)

LCD-XC 
Flac or MQA/Tidal sources

So few positive reviews for this setup on Head-Fi.  This is an honest review from someone who owns the Hugo and owned the IDSD Micro and Ican SE.

It's neutral, a tad forward with Vocals.  There's great bass when it's supposed to be there and not when it's not.
Rap probably won't sound the way one would hope..depending on the headphones.
Smell like teen spirit by Nirvana will sound exposed as the awful recording it is and probably not be enjoyable...depending on the headphones.
Beyonce's Lemonade album sounds amazing ( especially MQA or Hi res)  
Huge soundstage with depth.  In general this Amp sounds very natural and organic/analog.  Details are superb.

Obviously the soundstage is better than the Hugo.  Not surprising considering it's a desktop Amp.  The question seems to be comparing the Dac's.  Prime gets no love here and I suspect it's partly because all the specs aren't laid out and the DSP design isn't explained.
The Hugo is great, of course.  It's a digital sound.  I've had it for two years and played every genre most nights I can and it is so precise and accurate but eventually I found the sound to be a bit flat. Not equalizer flat but digital sounding.  Instruments don't have rounded edges and smoothness as some do in real life.  Gentleness, Delicateness. (Take Five by Dave Brubek) The body ( to me) is missing.  Although for the IDSD crowd...Hugo is likely exactly the right cup of tea.  I do agree that Hugo is a better all rounder for all genres.

MQA - It's 192khz. That's it.  No need for hate or disbelief.  If you mostly play Hi res flac type files from your library then MQA may not be very useful to you.  It's for streaming.  To send more data than a typical 16 bit 48khz sized file can hold.  
The two biggest Hi Res streaming companies in the world both use MQA.  Deezer and Tidal.  Thankfully they do because I don't want to bother finding Hi res files for every band I like.
If you are in the wagon of people who don't hear a difference between a song that was sampled at 192khz compared to 48khz...then MQA likely isn't for you either.

The Prime was one of the first rigs to use MQA but it's becoming a more readily available license.  Again though..only for streaming.  I gather alot of people have their own large collections and won't need that feature in a Dac.
Mytek Brooklyn Dac managed to throw MQA in as well as the whole kitchen sink for $2000.  In contrast,  Meridian has significantly lowered the pricing on the Prime.

I love the prime.  There are only a few genres, rap included, that I will use a less accurate, sweeter sounding Amp to feel that kind of music.


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