# The Apple diyMod: My Take on the Famous iMod [56k killer] Featuring 3G, 4G, 5G and nano 1G!



## joneeboi (Oct 16, 2022)

As many of you are aware of the iMod, I won't bore you with the details. Some of you may be aware that there are DIY "iMods" scattered throughout the world, and RedWineAudio is not the only to provide the world with the sonic beauty of the Wolfson Micro WM8975 CODEC. The details I will bore you with are about how I DIYed my own iMod. I was a bit hesitant to share at first, but this little bit of handiwork has landed me my second eargasm. The first was with the HF-1s at the first Edmonton Meet. I didn't think it was right to hold this to myself, so here are the very revealing pictures. Right now, the diyMod is mated with my Millett Hybrid MAX, and I'm sitting in a perpetual eargasm headphone Nirvana (not that I believe in Nirvana or anything). These pictures were taken after the fact, but are quite revealing. I realize that oicdn just started a thread about this, but I wanted more exposure and an easier to reference title for the thread. I didn't think it was fair to hold back this treasure.

 The iMod site says Vinnie uses Black Gate NX Hi-Q Non-polar caps. The datasheet for the WM8971 says that a lineout require 1uF and 100ohms in series with the left and right channels and the stereo jack's ground goes to ground. I couldn't find a good place to solder the ground wire to, so I jabbed around the inside while listening to some music to make sure it would work. I think I wired it to the clicking mechanism, and music gets clicky when I use the click wheel. The clicking sound of the click wheel was subsequently disabled. It was only on because my friend enabled it; I never use it. I didn't have anything that would fit into the iPod, so there is a huge extension on the outside. That would be one advantage of the iMod over the diyMod, but I get way more props this way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 "What the heck is wrong with your iPod, Jon?"

 [Explanation ensues.]

 "Dang, that's really cool, Jon. Do one for my iPod video."

 The iPod video is a different beast, but we'll see how that comes along. Looking at the 1G iPod nano, it should be similarly simple to do this mod while connecting the caps outside of the original casing. And dang, I gave away my 1G iPod in France too. Hm.

 Total cost of the diyMod: $20.

 --------------------

Please refer to the post on Instructables.
https://www.instructables.com/DiyMod/

 To download the old first page, go to:

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## TzeYang

great post.

 I do however, wished you posted a Ipod 5G instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really, the recent 5Gs, modding them is not really hard. Afterall the headphone amp is integrated into the CODEC/DAC itself, all you need to do is swap the output caps.


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## cfcubed

Wow, thanks for sharing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I don't see you mentioning breaking the original signal paths, so I guess the lineout is unaffected by this mod. But I wonder if leaving the original paths intact (parallel w/the new lineouts) has an affect on the SQ. Probably no biggie but I'd think that's affect the output impedance the Wolfson sees at least...
 Thanks again for great pix, etc.


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## joneeboi

I could have left the lineout signal intact, but that was actually part of the learning process. I was getting some really weird fuzzy sounds, so I thought that if I got rid of the elements at the place of my soldered wires, that would fix it. Turns out I had not properly grounded the stereo jack, so that fixed it. At any rate, I *think* I disconnected the lineout, but I haven't actually checked. The headphone out does still work, if that's any consolation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will report back after school.

 I'm going to try the 5G diyMod for a friend. In the mean time, the rest of you DIYers can take confidence in doing it yourselves. iFixit: iPod, iBook, & PowerBook Parts and Accessories and ifixipodsfast.com have great guides on opening your iPods. ifixit has a pictorial guide, and the guy at ifixipodsfast.com has video tutorials. I couldn't stand listening to his accent after a while though. I was going to take a look at my dad's 5G iPod but he walked in while I was trying to disconnect the LCD screen from the logic board and understandably freaked out. He got a 3-year warranty on the thing, so neither of us wanted to mess that up (I didn't know until after he walked in and yelled at me.) =T

 After seeing that picture of the 1G nano, I'm still kicking myself for having given it away. Having a really slim, portable diyMod nano would have been awesome.


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## oicdn

Yeah, you posted the same thing here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/who...od-mod-269406/

 I'm curious as to who's done the mod without having an external "wart" on thier iPod, no offence.

 Intresting none the less.


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## NelsonVandal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, you posted the same thing here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/who...od-mod-269406/

 I'm curious as to who's done the mod without having an external "wart" on thier iPod, no offence.

 Intresting none the less._

 

I did it to my IHP1x0. There's more room in that one.
iMod iRiver, DC problem - MisticRiver :: For iriver Enthusiasts


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## joneeboi

Yeah, I was wondering how Vinnie fit those Black Gates in the iPod case. I don't really know how to picture some of the NX Hi-Q's ~4 x 7 mm dimensions. With the [Tic-Tac] case though, I could use slightly better caps without having to regard real estate as strictly. I'm wondering if it matters whether or not I go polar or non-polar. The datasheet has the signal entering the positive side of the cap, then it says to use film caps. After that point, it all just comes down to an issue of "this capacitor type versus that," doesn't it?


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## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I was wondering how Vinnie fit those Black Gates in the iPod case. I don't really know how to picture some of the NX Hi-Q's ~4 x 7 mm dimensions. With the [Tic-Tac] case though, I could use slightly better caps without having to regard real estate as strictly. I'm wondering if it matters whether or not I go polar or non-polar. The datasheet has the signal entering the positive side of the cap, then it says to use film caps. After that point, it all just comes down to an issue of "this capacitor type versus that," doesn't it?_

 

here is a picture of Vinnie's imod caps inside:







 as you can see he just glued the NX Hi-Q's caps in the corner and that's it. 

 I've done mode to my 60GB photo by actually incorporating two NX Hi-Q caps and four resistors in the phone jack PC board. pics latter!


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## joneeboi

Interesting. That used to be on the iMod site, but I never even bothered to look into the details. It's no longer up, so good catch on that, vvs. Part of why I went the drilled-hole path is because I want to still be able to use the headphone jack. If only a headphone jack could be drilled into the diyMod. That would be pretty leet. I'll admit that that is some mighty clean work up in vvs' picture.

 Some pics of your work would be pretty cool to see, vvs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: It seems RWA has traversed the drilled hole path too.
Red Wine iMod (iPod mod) &#8212 HiFi Blog


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## goober-george

so, the 20 bucks you spent on the diy mod, is it fairly easy to do? Or does it take a lot of experience with electronics? Seems like everyone would start diying rather then going to imod and paying $200.


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## joneeboi

You know what they say, it costs $1 to tap the furnace and $19 to know where to tap.


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## MASantos

but not everyone wants to risk a 350$ ipod and prefers to pay 200$ for the guarantee that the modification will work flawlessly for a long time.


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## MASantos

double post


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## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking at the 1G iPod nano, it should be similarly simple to do this mod while connecting the caps outside of the original casing. And dang, I gave away my 1G iPod in France too. Hm._

 

what do you mean with that 1G ipod nano there ? can i do this DIYmod on my 1st GEN nano ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 please explain, thx...


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## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what do you mean with that 1G ipod nano there ? can i do this DIYmod on my 1st GEN nano ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 please explain, thx...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If you never did DIY at least several simple projects I would suggest just enjoy it as is.
 If you do can hold the iron and just need some clear instruction be prepared to buy few more nanos before you achieve result.

 The problem is that the pads of the PCB unbelievable fragile and will break off as soon as you try to move or bend the wire! I know because I was there and not ones before found solution.


 Also if the 1st gen nano doesn't support lossless format you won’t get that "big jump" in SQ as you get with 4gen ipod.

 edit: it actually support apple lossless!


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## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<snip>
 The problem is that the pads of the PCB unbelievable fragile and will break off as soon as you try to move or bend the wire! <snip>_

 

Yes I've lifted pads in the past (yuk!). Now as soon as I'm sure the wires are soldered well I hit 'em with a dab of hot glue to try to tack them down & keep them from moving. Not sure there's much room for that in an iPod tho.


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## wgr73

Yeah, please post how to do it with a Nano, I have a 1st gen that is just collecting dust...I know I would succeed in the mod.


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## wgr73

I'll give you props if you make a tutorial!!


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## vvs_75

I can tell you what to do from the board picture I see and then you need to improvise to get the job done or just wait few days when I got mine and then I will provide tutorials with pics ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do both a bit latter!


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## wgr73

VVs, that sounds fine. I have a 1st gen nano, and if you look at the link of the nano he posted, tell me from that board...the rest i can figure out(like the circuit with caps and resistors, and soldering to the phones port,ect)


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## joneeboi

[Locate the WM8975 CODEC to the middle left above the two yellow components.] You can either take the audio feed from either the top (north) of C86 and C87 there, or above the C53 and C54, the two black elements with the Z printed on them. The sound is exactly the same from either one, but the C53 and C54 pair can be inverted to feed a speaker (invert the C54 line). Feeding them straight to your DC blocking caps to your stereo jack would be the same setup for both pairs. Send the signals to the positive lead of a 1uF cap and straight to the headphone jack. Now the datasheet says to put 100ohm resisters after the DC blocking caps to protect from improper usage, but I didn't want to degrade the sound with noisy resistors since I won't be letting anyone use my iPod anyways (who would want to with the way it looks?).

 Starting from C86, that's pin 12. Going counter-clockwise, 12 is LOUT1, 13 is ROUT1, 14 is HPGND, 15 is ROUT2, 16 is LOUT2. All this can be gathered from the datasheet, and page 37 will carry the bulk of the information. All the grounds on the WM8975 will have the same voltage, so you can use any ground associated with the chip. I tried soldering my ground wire to the same ground supply as the chip on the LCD side of the 4G iPod board. I soldered it to a tiny SMD capacitor, so it kept falling off. I compromised with a poke-and-listen approach that encouraged me to disable the clicking sound feature. A fun consequence of using external-to-the-iPod-casing caps is that you can still use your LODs. I won't imagine you will, but if you want to use a Bose Sound Dock, the option is there.


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## wgr73

Like this? Seems too easy?!? I really appreciate your help on this!


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## joneeboi

Perfect.

 [edit: Just send the negative ends to the stereo jack, ground the jack, and you're pretty close to set.]


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## wgr73

Cool, so can I unsolder the c86,87 caps? Or should I just leave them there?


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## joneeboi

There's the thing of paralleling inputs and its effects on your lineout's sound. I'm not sure how that would affect it, so you'd have to get some knowledgeable person to answer that. Personally I'd keep it in case, like I said, you want to use the dock's lineout or the headphone out.


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## wgr73

Cool, this should be pretty sweet. You. Are. Amazing.!! Thanks


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## wgr73

Nevermind, I figured it out...thanks again!


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## iQEM

@ joneeboi:
 just curious, one wire go to capacitor and the other one go to ... ?! and what the capacitor that you've used looks like ?


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## wgr73

Sure, if all is sucessfull I will post a tutorial!


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## iQEM

Deleted !!!


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## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ joneeboi:
 just curious, one wire go to capacitor and the other one go to ... ?! and what the capacitor that you've used looks like ?_

 

To be painfully clear, it goes from from LOUT1 or LOUT2 to the positive lead of the capacitor and from the negative lead to the output jack's left channel. From ROUT1/2 to the positive end of the cap, then negative to the output's right channel. Ground goes to ground, but not all grounds will work. Use the poke-and-listen technique and things should go fine. Anyone step in and correct me if the P-A-L system can damage the player.

 [Okay, maybe going P-A-L is pretty dumb. Just to be safe, one should try to keep the jack's ground to this area if possible. It's already a pretty busy area sitting behind the LCD screen, but I'm sure you DIYers can figure something out.

 See if a big blob of solder and some wire can be applied to this portion. Both of pins 17 and 18 are the analogue supply, albeit AVDD is just cited as the analogue supply and HPVDD is the supply for R/LOUT1/2 and also MONOUT which is pin 10, but that's irrelevant. It seems as though you could easily solder a wire here. I used navships 30AWG Teflon-coated 7 strand SPC, so it was a bit easier to fit things for me. For the nano, I'm not sure how it'll work. Pictures would be great though, wgr73.







]

 [[I really shouldn't post this late at night. The ground doesn't extend as far as the red ellipse suggests. It flows out from the two pins on the WM8975, goes to the two yellow capacitors, then it hits that black bit, which I think is an inductor. Just to clarify.]]


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## AKChastain

Ok, this is all great, but ..... if you can tap into the signal after the DAC, and if your going to have an external enclosure anyway..... could you tap into the signal BEFORE the DAC and use the external space to convert to optical or coax digital out? Now that would be AWESOME. A resonabely good protable player that could link directly into a home setup as a true source as well!


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## joneeboi

I had already thought about this, but I'm not sure what you would be connecting to inside the iPod to send to the DAC. As far as I understand coaxial cables, they're just two wires, one sending and the other returning electrons. You'd have to tell from the WM8975/8971's schematic and pinout to see what needs to happen. 

 According to the datasheet, 

 pin 1 is the master clock
 pin 2 is the digital core supply
 pin 3 is the digital buffer (i/o) supply
 pin 4 is the digital ground (return path for both pin 2 and pin 3)
 pin 5 is the audio interface bit clock
 pin 6 is the DAC digital audio data
 pin 7 is the audio interface left/right clock/clock out

 I don't really know what this all means, so you digital audio fanatics are going to have to decipher this.


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## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AKChastain* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, this is all great, but ..... if you can tap into the signal after the DAC, and if your going to have an external enclosure anyway..... could you tap into the signal BEFORE the DAC and use the external space to convert to optical or coax digital out? Now that would be AWESOME. A resonabely good protable player that could link directly into a home setup as a true source as well!_

 

It was discussed not ones. Here one of the threads about it:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/wou...al-out-249755/


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## oicdn

What about tapping into the source BEFORE the DAC and adding a switch so you can use a home DAC when at home and make it still able to use as a portable. I mean, if you have a tic tack box on the back why not put a slightly bigger box on there since the footprint is still the size of the iPod itself. You wouldn't lose any portability, and still have the option to be able to use it as normal. Also, with the slightly larger box on the back, you could add your optical outs, etc.

 Then again, that might be a bit much, lol.


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about tapping into the source BEFORE the DAC and adding a switch so you can use a home DAC when at home and make it still able to use as a portable. I mean, if you have a tic tack box on the back why not put a slightly bigger box on there since the footprint is still the size of the iPod itself. You wouldn't lose any portability, and still have the option to be able to use it as normal. Also, with the slightly larger box on the back, you could add your optical outs, etc.

 Then again, that might be a bit much, lol._

 

The answer is in post 8 of the thread recommended above. Nobody knows the internal type of signal. Apple's not going to tell anyone to keep it proprietary. I figure if Vinnie could have bypassed the DAC completely to line out (or an external box) he would have done so and it would have been made iMod prime an even more attractive solution.


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## joneeboi

According to post 19 of the thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/wou...al-out-249755/, the information transfered through I2S is the master clock, the bit clock, the data, and the left and right clock. The WM8975's pin 1 is the master clock, pin 5 is the bit clock, pin 6 is the audio data, and pin 7 is the left/right clock. If you can somehow find the traces leading from these pins, I think that *it's at least possible to get an I2S signal from the WM8975*. But let's also remember that possible isn't probable.

 Now I just want to see someone pull it off


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## joneeboi

Looking into the matter further, my suspicions were confirmed. It is well-documented that the iPod 4G, as well as the 5G and mini, uses the PortalPlayer System on Chip (SoC) PP5020. Thanks to Generations - wikiPodLinux , the PP5020's datasheet confirms that SPDIF/I2S is being employed in these iPods. Check CommsDesign - Find out what's really inside the iPod also for some good information. At any rate, this confirms that digital out is possible for the iPod, you just need to get creative in figuring out how to get it.


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## joneeboi

Looking at the iPod photo revision, carrying out the diyMod might be a bit more difficult. Thanks yet again to ipodlinux.org, we can find the photo's WM8975 in the bottom left corner of the image, but the traces aren't as easy to find.

http://ipodlinux.org/Image:IPodPhotoChips_-_2.jpg for an insanely high resolution image


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## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking at the iPod photo revision, carrying out the diyMod might be a bit more difficult. Thanks yet again to ipodlinux.org, we can find the photo's WM8975 in the bottom left corner of the image, but the traces aren't as easy to find.

http://ipodlinux.org/Image:IPodPhotoChips_-_2.jpg for an insanely high resolution image




_

 

The pads are very small as you can see! When you take the resistor off you need to solder to the pad that closer to the DAC chip. And the size of the pad is about half of the resistor. Crazy I know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To tell the truth after I did my ipod photo I don't think that Red Wine asking hell lots of money for it. Don't forget you will get warranty and free service with it of your iMod!

 Pads from the 1st gen nano – giants to compare!

 I will post picture ASAP how I managed to solder wires after killing one main board!


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## CAvanessia

the "imod" for the nano will be interesting. please do keep us informed


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## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the "imod" for the nano will be interesting. please do keep us informed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

x2


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## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2_

 

Ok! From my side It’s just to get all necessary parts for the mod and the player itself could take several weeks, to many projects at the same time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I think I will post ASAP how I will do my 1st gen mod when I have everything necessary.


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## joneeboi

Sounds great, vvs. We'll all wait eagerly for your pictorial of the nano 1G. How's progress on the diyMod photo's pics?


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## drp

These are all phenomenal posts; way to take the lead on making this modification on the Nano to a more accessible level.

 The reason Vinnie decided to not offer the Nano in the iMod series was because of the additional disassembly steps (as compared to the larger player). This would have made the mod too labor intensive (and more risky) for a suitable price structure. Plus, there is extra labor involved in creating a pigtail that houses the two capacitors.

 Some things to keep in mind when you exit the player body with the line out lines are strain relief, protection of the lines from the metal where the casing is cut (grommet, bushing, etc.), and to a lesser extent, the style of amp you'll be using. If something like the Headamp AE-2 for RCA in, you'll need to tack the pigtail to the body so that it's solidly anchored to the top of the player, toward the power switch. If for the Hornet, Tomahawk, or Pico, tacked to the bottom; towards the doc. Bottom line is that unless you are ready to glue the Nano to the amp, they will separate at the wrong time and add undue strain on a fragile connection. This is why the pigtail should be solidly attached to the casing in a few spots along its length. This is all assuming you'll be using the combo as a portable stack (primary reason for the tiny size).

 Look forward to reading about the progression of this great mod,

 Dave


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## vvs_75

Here is picture of my first try. I was using #26AWG OFC Mogami wires. They are more flexible then #24 Cardas. The pads broke off so easy that I though that it was bad join. Then I filed off corner of the chip and soldered directly to the legs – same story. The wires too stiff and heavy. 
 But I want you to look at the ribbon cable receptacle.
 The G (red dot) is were you connect the ground wire. It’s the first pin on the bottom right side. The only other place were I found analog ground were pins 29,30 on the dock connector.

 The H (red dot) – hold switch pin. It’s the first pin on the top right and marked with small v. The problem is when you disconnect the ribbon cable from the main board it will lock the ipod. Apparently Apple designed it that way. So to overcome the problem and keep the ipod in unlocked position you need to make bridge between those pins. I just carefully melted plastic until the pads were cleared. The bridge is necessary because I cleared the phone jack board from all parts so the hold switch was no longer working.
 You can keep the ribbon cable but then you have to glue capacitors in the corner like Red Wine did it. Here is the picture. 







 Next you need to cut the male receptacle from the ribbon cable and glue the same size piece of cooper board to the top of it. This “bridge” will serve as a transitional point between soft cable from the DAC chip ( I used cable from my $50 died Sony IEM ) and wire that will go to the phone jack ( I used #26AWG Mogami) . See picture below.







 Then I drilled holes in cleaned from parts PCB and mounted the capacitors and resistors with point to point soldering. Be sure to use wire tubes on capacitors legs that goes through holes because the board are multilayered and even if you don’t see the tiny traces on surface they could touch them internally! Just to be safe. I used 100 ohm resistors in series and 47Kohm to the analog ground for each channel. You could skip at list series resistors and solder BG legs to the phone jacks legs directly. Plastic tray that supports the board has holes in it. If you use wires you can solder them through the holes. To make it easier you can just file the whole thing down as I did.




 [b][color=Red][size=medium]Very important![/size][/color][/b] Don’t forget to glue ribbon cable receptacles together. 

 Also be sure that the "EQ" and "sound check" settings on your ipod OFF.

 Happy Soldering! [img]http://www.head-fi.org/forums/images/smilies/smily_headphones1.gif


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## joneeboi

So you went RWA's way and soldered the BGs straight to the HP jack, eh? Elegant stuff, vvs. I just can't believe you went ahead and destroyed part of your chip just like that. I imagine it would be a matter of microns between the chip's life and death. Seeing how both you and RWA were able to keep the caps indoors makes me want to do the same. Then I remember that I don't have a suitably portable amp at the moment, so I still want to have the option of the headphone jack. Even when I do get said amp (I'm thinking Mini3 so far), I'm not sure I'll listen solely exclusively via the amp, so the HP jack and rocket pack is here to stay unless I can figure something else out. But I'm glad you found a solution that works for you. Thanks for the photos.

 BTW, what the heck is that circle in all of your photos? I can't imagine a lens doing that kind of work to an image.

 I just found out I'll be getting another broken 4G click wheel, so once I fix that mother up, maybe I'll try the "clean" way.


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## vvs_75

joneeboi;3452134 said:
			
		

> BTW, what the heck is that circle in all of your photos? I can't imagine a lens doing that kind of work to an image.QUOTE]
> 
> in order to get close picture I used 4X eye loop lense in front of my camera


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## oicdn

That's INTENSE....what would you charge fo that to be done to a Nano?


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## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's INTENSE....what would you charge fo that to be done to a Nano? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Nano have huge pads! So you can do direct soldering with no trics! 

 Just wait a week or so and I will post my nano mod! It will be easy, cheap and killer!
 You will like it!


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## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's INTENSE....what would you charge fo that to be done to a Nano? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Like vvs said, if you have ever soldered anything, you can pull off this mod. It's probably one of the easiest soldering jobs out there. The only really intimidating part, if you already know how to solder, is how to open the iPod without damaging anything. It's not as bad as it seems with the nano. The iPod video is another story. I slipped a couple times trying to slip the pry tool in between the cracks and ended up slicing some skin off my knuckles. The nano was much easier than the video was.


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## oicdn

So then, why did RWA not want to offer it? Is it because it's cramped to fit caps in there? If we're talking external caps, it kinda defeats the whole purpose of having a nano.


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## drp

^ See post #46 of this thread


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## aluren

how about modding the 6 gen?


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## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ See post #46 of this thread_

 

I read that (again) and now see why, but still, why hasn't anybody tried to keep it all internal? Is it solely space constraints?


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## drp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read that (again) and now see why, but still, why hasn't anybody tried to keep it all internal? Is it solely space constraints?_

 

More like a part size constraint. The diameter of the BG caps is => larger than the thickness of the Nano. I suspect you’d need to go to an SMD cap to fit them in the Nano (arguably giving up sq) and you’re then giving up the headphone socket. 

 Plus, you’d then need a mini-to-mini cable, would stick out the bottom and make for a larger footprint. This is assuming there’s room in the Nano to run the new lines to the headphone socket. Perhaps the trailblazers in this thread can comment. 

 I still think a pigtail and a still-operable headphone socket the best combination. Small, compact, and with a Pico or Tomahawk, fit in a tiny case for protection.

 .02


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## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only really intimidating part, if you already know how to solder, is how to open the iPod without damaging anything. It's not as bad as it seems with the nano. The iPod video is another story. I slipped a couple times trying to slip the pry tool in between the cracks and ended up slicing some skin off my knuckles. The nano was much easier than the video was._

 

Lol, this is so true!! Except I had huge problems getting the nano open, the video was cake for me! I got the caps from electronics shop, i should have an diyMod nano soon!


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## joneeboi

drp nailed it. The nano is just too small to fit even the tiny NX HI-Q BGs.

 Here's the thread with the RWA iMod nano:

iMod Nano (56k warning)






 The issue I'd imagine coming up with that kind of configuration is that some people would want to swap out the male mini plug for their own Eichmann Bullets, Cardas and what not, so RWA would have had to personalize every iMod nano. Then some people might object to having the pigtail stick out of their pockets, wires breaking in the pigtail from the drilled hole, they want silver instead of copper and vice versa, etc. Personally I don't believe in spending that much money on both wires and connectors as there are countless amounts of other audio offenders in any setup that could only be removed or improved with prohibitively expensive upgrades. That may seem contradictory in a thread about the iMod, where removing cheap components is the goal. But we can't forget that there are limits to how much an upgrade will cost and how much sound improvement, not necessarily sound difference, there really is. This mod was extremely cheap for me in comparison to RWA's offering, making it worth the $20 in caps, Tic-Tac box, cheap mini stereo jack, electric tape and hookup wire, if even $20. I'm all for upgrades that are obviously improvements that aren't restrictively pricey, but after a point you end up paying as much as, say, a much better power supply when you're only exchanging a connector, whose sound upgrade is immediately extinguished by the other crappy components in whatever box comes after it. I'm not saying there's no sound difference or improvement with the $11/pair Cardas female RCA jacks, I'm just saying there are better investments you could be making.

 Nevertheless, maybe someone can come up with an interesting layout for this design. vvs_75 went RWA's completely internal way, but still pulled it off in his own unique way. My way is pretty unique too =D You could pore over it night and day and discover a great method, but I think that time might be better spent elsewhere, like cooking up your own Cardas Myrtle Wood blocks. If someone did do it however, future generations would benefit from it and I guess that would be your payoff, much like I couldn't have done the diyMod without RWA's entrepreneurship.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol, this is so true!! Except I had huge problems getting the nano open, the video was cake for me! I got the caps from electronics shop, i should have an diyMod nano soon!_

 

I'm glad to hear that. Opening the nano was much easier than either the 4G click wheel or the 5G video, I found. Glad to hear that you got through that (huge) hurdle. What kind of configuration are you going to go with for the diyMod nano? Pigtail? Tic Tac box? Altoids box?

 I don't suppose anyone in the meantime has pulled off a digital output diyMod.


----------



## wgr73

Thanks! I think im gonna use your tic tac box setup...it looks like a good one. I have a whole electronics lab to myself up at the college, so they may have some fabrication parts. But yeah, your idea was a good one.


----------



## joneeboi

Sounds great, wgr, I'm flattered. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm flattered and confused at the same time. I never thought ugliness was ever inspiration for imitation for anyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I'm sure that electronics lab has *something *that can supercede the Tic Tac box. I even only used it since it was within eyesight.

 One suggestion I do have would be to use a small section of perfboard to organize things inside the Tic Tac case. Reviewing my mod, that would have helped stabilize things some even though I crammed everything in so that nothing would really move anyway. Just a thought.


----------



## wgr73

Lol, well it was a good idea. My nano looks like crap, so looks will be the last thing I care about. Sound is far more important. That perfboard sounds like a good idea. I'll look for some of that.


----------



## dcc84

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Nano have huge pads! So you can do direct soldering with no trics! 

 Just wait a week or so and I will post my nano mod! It will be easy, cheap and killer!
 You will like it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am more psyched about this write up than I was actually getting my 1st gen nano. Can't wait for the post. In the meantime, is there any way you could list parts I need to be ordering so I'll be all ready to go. PLLLLEEEAAASE. Thanks.


----------



## firefox360

There must be a bigger soldering point for the iPod Photo/Colour than just the resistor pads... I'm thinking something along the line of a pad for a capacitor, which should probably be larger than the pads on those resistors.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcc84* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am more psyched about this write up than I was actually getting my 1st gen nano. Can't wait for the post. In the meantime, is there any way you could list parts I need to be ordering so I'll be all ready to go. PLLLLEEEAAASE. Thanks._

 

How do you want to set up your diyMod nano? Where do you want to buy your parts from? What do you have and what do you need to get? Essentially you'll need some hookup wire and two caps. You could go the extra mile and grab a mini jack/plug, but that's up to you. Hookup wire you can grab at Radio Shack. Where you buy your caps from depends on which ones you want. Consult the thread in my sig. It's a starting point and still kind of confusing, but read around the other threads about which caps are the best and you'll get an idea of the sound you want.


----------



## fatman711

I'd be interested in doing this with my ipod 5g video. Has anyone figured out how to do it without having that black box on the outside. Basically do what RWA did?

 parts? Prefer to be able to buy in Canada somewhere


----------



## wgr73

Hey, could you tell me why my click wheel doesnt work once i put it back together? Im sure I have the ribbon cables in correctly?!?


----------



## joneeboi

For the iPod nano, the ribbon cable for the click wheel sits right south of the battery. I actually snapped the black plastic tab keeping the pressure on it (when I still had mine), so I had to insert a very small piece of cardboard into the same slot to give the same pressure effect. Check to see if this ribbon cable is in far enough before you bring the tab down on it.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatman711* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd be interested in doing this with my ipod 5g video. Has anyone figured out how to do it without having that black box on the outside. Basically do what RWA did?

 parts? Prefer to be able to buy in Canada somewhere_

 

As for the 5G iPod, I can only imagine there being two pieces of wires running from the WM8758 CODEC audio outputs straight to the dock somewhere. I can't confirm this without the actual iPod, so we'll have to wait for an adventurous soul.

 As for parts for the 5G, all you really need after the hookup wire is a pair of capacitors and the Ridax iPod dock connector, unless you want to do it a different way.


----------



## fatman711

does it have to be ridax? Or can I just use a qables one?


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the iPod nano, the ribbon cable for the click wheel sits right south of the battery. Check to see if this ribbon cable is in far enough before you bring the tab down on it._

 

Ive done this about 3 times!?! Hmm, illl keep trying i guess...The LCD works(the other ribbon cable is fine).


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatman711* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does it have to be ridax? Or can I just use a qables one?_

 

The qables on will work fine...I think they are the same thing actually.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatman711* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does it have to be ridax? Or can I just use a qables one?_

 

Silly me, Qables makes them too. Yeah, it ought to work.

 wgr:

 Did you unsolder anything? One of my problems with the nano was that it would work before I screwed in the logic board and put the back case on, but when I put Humpty Dumpty together again, the click wheel wouldn't work. You just have to keep trying until it sticks, unfortunately.

 Pics would be cool too.


----------



## fatman711

yeah pics!

 Has anyone actually compared the sound to an Imod?


----------



## wgr73

Ok, should the wheel cable go up like this??





 Here are some other pics....


----------



## wgr73

Whoops, the middle one was wrong... i dont feel like taking anymore either! Once I get the nano working, I'll post pics of the Caps on the outside.


----------



## wgr73

Well, I figured it out. There is a hairline crack along the ribbon cable (you can see it in the 1st pic, right under the "1"). It looks like the diymod is put on hold...if i ever get around to buying another 1g nano!


----------



## fatman711

just buy a new click wheel. 

iPOD Nano OEM Click wheel Ribbon Flex Cable Parts BLACK - (eBay.ca item 200180272146 end time 05-Dec-07 04:27:33 EST)

 you're welcome...haha


----------



## wgr73

Yeah, thats true I guess.


----------



## wgr73

Done. Parts ordered..


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcc84* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am more psyched about this write up than I was actually getting my 1st gen nano. Can't wait for the post. In the meantime, is there any way you could list parts I need to be ordering so I'll be all ready to go. PLLLLEEEAAASE. Thanks._

 

At this point I need to get my nano first and look inside to see what and how. I want to try squeeze caps inside if not then will be whole different story. Just wait a bit. When I am done I will post step by step tutorial with pics, parts, prices and were to buy.


----------



## fatman711

someone do a 5g too plz


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here are some other pics....



_

 

That red wire should go on the other side of that cap. Good to hear you finished it, though. Do let us know your sonic impressions.


----------



## CAvanessia

Yes. Impressions please. pics are good too.


----------



## aldave

would this work with a 2nd gen nano?


----------



## joneeboi

ipodlinux.org/Generations says that the audio CODEC is in the bottom right of this image, the Apple 66AJSTB. The site also says it ought to be similar to the Wolfson Micro WM8750, similar to the WM8975. The pinouts are the same for both chips, and so the nano 2G should theoretically work, just that I can't decipher what's going on around the chip in this image. The feeds are coming out of the left side of the chip, but I can't see where they're going. If a daring soul would open up their nano 2G (and iPod video while they're at it), that would be great for readers of the thread. Remember that there are two pairs of L/R audio feeds, and that the first pair (with lower pin number) control the headphone jack, and as such have their volumes digitally controlled. The second pair, which should sit at the very bottom left of the 66AJSTB we see here (if it is indeed the same as the Wolfson chips), would be where you want to grab the signal.


----------



## drp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I figured it out. There is a hairline crack along the ribbon cable (you can see it in the 1st pic, right under the "1"). It looks like the diymod is put on hold...if i ever get around to buying another 1g nano! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Do you know (can you speculate on) which action caused the hairline crack in the ribbon cable? This would make for a good precautionary statement for anyone considering the Nano mod.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wait a week or so and I will post my nano mod! It will be easy, cheap and killer!
 You will like it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

where should i search tutorial to open my Nano with step by step (picts)? thx...


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_will wait for an easy tutorial to do it...newbie here...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 note:
 where should i search tutorial to open my Nano with step by step (picts)? thx...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Youtube have everything!

YouTube - iPod Nano 1st Generation Repair Guide


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That red wire should go on the other side of that cap. Good to hear you finished it, though. Do let us know your sonic impressions._

 

Yeah, I did put it on the other side. That was an early picture, I was testing the solder. But I didnt finish it, I was just telling Fatman I was 'done' ordering the click wheel.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you know (can you speculate on) which action caused the hairline crack in the ribbon cable? This would make for a good precautionary statement for anyone considering the Nano mod._

 

Sure, when I was putting it back into its slot it was hard to put in. Make sure when you grip the cable, you hold(I used needle nose pliers) close enough to the end of the cable to get enough leverage, otherwise it will bend(which I'm sure is what caused my crack).


----------



## dcc84

Joneeboi. Thanks for the response. I would like to squeeze caps inside (insane I know) if possible. Also, though I have an amp, I'll probably try to preserve lineout. I'm not too picky though. Good links on caps in your sig. Prob go with some blackgates. I think I'll wait till vvs 75 does a tutorial, just to make sure. Pretty confident about soldering skills, just never worked on an ipod. Thanks for everyones help though. This thread rocks.

 I'm still really interested to hear first impressions on sound>?


----------



## joneeboi

Here is a nano 1G disassembly tutorial.

iPod Nano 1st Gen. Disassembly: Installing Battery & Logic Board - Removing Rear Panel (page 1/6)

 I'm sure if Vinnie could have fit caps into the iMod nano, he would have done it. The nano 1G measures 3.5" x 1.6" x 0.27", or 88.9mm by 40.6mm by 6.89mm. The iMod's BG NX Hi-Q measures as small as 4mm x 7mm. It will be very hard to get that kind of clearance inside the super tiny casing. I'd try squeezing it underneath the battery. That would be my first guess, but I still doubt you could fit it there. Maybe you could drill two holes that will let the caps stick out of the casing. Just spitballing here, try at your own risk.

 As for sonic impressions, I'll try my best. My setup is the 4G click wheel (with WM8975 CODEC) to 220uF Nichicon UPWs from Mouser to a Kobiconn 3.5mm stereo jack also from Mouser. The amp I listened most intently with was my Millett Hybrid MAX. The MAX's settings are a supply voltage of 27.0VDC with 12FK6 biased to 13.5VDC, Toshiba 2SC3422/2SA1359 BJT diamond buffers biased to 110mV. My boutique caps are 1000uF Panasonic FC at CA2 and CA7 with 5.1uF Solen bypass caps at CA8 and CA9. Mini-mini cable is generic. Headphones are Grado SR60s with rescreening, sticky tack driver mod, GS1K pads with glue mod. Indeed a very personal setup, nothing any of you might have, even within MHM builders and SR60 owners. My files are encoded to MP3 320kbps VBR.

 Plugging straight into the WM8975 (the datasheet says headphones can be plugged straight into the DAC if 220uF caps are put in series first), I listened to the very first time, as Nigel Kennedy played Sibelius' Violin Concerto in D minor, the performer's breathing. I had heard this sound before and I suspected it was hard breathing, but the clarity and intensity of his breath was very evident. I assure you I'm not exaggerating, as I've heard people exclaim that x piece of equipment allowed them to hear performer y breath and they could tell which nostril they were breathing from and performer y had a cold for the past two weeks. It's impossible to ignore this breathing. Switching over to some Hillsong's Savior King for some Marty Sampson singing In Your Freedom, I heard a portion of a drum beat I'd never heard before. It's just the snare going away on a regular system, but with the diyMod + MHM + SR60s, I could hear the hi hats going off in the distance. It was fairly not but overly subtle on this setup, but it's unnoticeable even in the car where we listen to this track plenty of times. The instrument separation was very precise, as I could switch from focusing on the drums and go to the acoustic guitar in one ear and then to the electric in the other ear to the piano in the back very smoothly. Loads of detail were available to me as though I were at a detail buffet and I could choose to listen to anything I wanted. On this setup, the highs sparkle quite nicely, balancing out the Toshiba BJTs' punchy bass. The corner frequency for this setup is ridiculously low, so bass rolloff isn't a concern (much lower than 1Hz). In fact, I think I've struck a nice balance between punchiness and extension. I prefer a fun, impactful bass, and this setup delivers it almost as well as I had heard with the Ayre Evolution CD player + Stax SR404 + SRM006tII listening to the same track. The noise floor is very quiet. Plugging in the iPod charger and pausing the music and turning the volume knob all the way up makes the AC noise only barely audible, so at listening volumes it's not a problem at all.

 Overall, the take home message here is the separation. I really felt like I was onstage, walking between the performers to hear what they had to offer, although I'm sure volumes onstage are orders of magnitude larger than what I was experiencing. I like how everything meshes together right now, which is why I'm hesitant to even try the Black Gates. Even within the MHM builders, my setup is pretty far from what they recommend. My SR60s are one-of-a-kind, and I'm using Nichicons (220uF no less) as my diyMod caps. In other words, your mileage will vary greatly from mine as I'm sure no one will ever have this setup. That should be the caveat for a lot of reviews.


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure if Vinnie could have fit caps into the iMod nano, he would have done it. The nano 1G measures 3.5" x 1.6" x 0.27", or 88.9mm by 40.6mm by 6.89mm. The iMod's BG NX Hi-Q measures as small as 4mm x 7mm. It will be very hard to get that kind of clearance inside the super tiny casing. I'd try squeezing it underneath the battery. That would be my first guess, but I still doubt you could fit it there. Maybe you could drill two holes that will let the caps stick out of the casing. Just spitballing here, try at your own risk._

 

I would LOVE to see that. Seeing as how it'd only BARELY stick out (we're talking in tenths of mm here), I think it'd be a viable solution. It'd also give it a pretty fairly techy look with caps slightly sticking out hinting to it's modifications. Execution would be key here as it would have to be cleanly drilled, etc.

 I would donate my Nano to see this done. I would do this myself, but it would be weeks from now as I get some things sorted out, as well as the opportunity to buy some good solder and a new gun that's not complete junk.


----------



## firefox360

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then I drilled holes in cleaned from parts PCB and mounted the capacitors and resistors with point to point soldering. Be sure to use wire tubes on capacitors legs that goes through holes because the board are multilayered and even if you don’t see the tiny traces on surface they could touch them internally! Just to be safe. I used 100 ohm resistors in series and 47Kohm to the analog ground for each channel. *You could skip at list series resistors and solder BG legs to the phone jacks legs directly.* Plastic tray that supports the board has holes in it. If you use wires you can solder them through the holes. To make it easier you can just file the whole thing down as I did._

 

Just to be sure, does the text in bold mean that the it's possible to skip the 100 ohm resistors and just use the capacitors, or is both necessarily required?


----------



## joneeboi

The resistors aren't necessary. The datasheet says to put two 100 ohm resistors in series after the caps, but that's only for protecting the DAC. lwaudio at ipastudio paralleled a resistor to ground after the cap, which is what vvs did too (you can't tell now that he removed that embarrassing picture 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). I don't know how that affects the sound, so you'll have to ask them. I believe RWA omits the resistors as well. Here are the photos from ipastudio. You need to be a member there and then pass clearance to view them, so I just hosted them on photobucket.

 Mind you, these photos are for the iPod 3G.


----------



## vvs_75

QUOTE=firefox360;3467432]Just to be sure, does the text in bold mean that the it's possible to skip the 100 ohm resistors and just use the capacitors, or is both necessarily required?[/QUOTE]

 Just look at RWA picture. Wires go right to the jack through holes in white plastic frame that hold the phone jack. No resistors! I removed mine too!


----------



## dcc84

How do you guys think this mod compares soundwise to building an ipod dock connector to access line-out?

 Also, hows the nano 1G mod goin vvs?


----------



## dcc84

When you say "straight out of the WM8975" is that the same as soldering to C86 and C87? Or does that literally mean you have to solder to the tiny pins of the WM8975 chip? Dumb question, but I've read the posts a couple times and still can't figure it out. Thanks.


----------



## wgr73

Either way. As long as you hit the signal path before the "-" side of the cap. (i.e. positive side of the cap...)


----------



## dcc84

Ok. Sweet. I'm using an two old lipstick containers strapped on the back of my nano for true rocket style status. I originally had one, but it wont lay flat, and plus I can use one for a perfect im716carrying case. The other will have the caps and a round headphone jack I found on smallbearelec.com part 0627. Pics to come.


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcc84* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you say "straight out of the WM8975" is that the same as soldering to C86 and C87? Or does that literally mean you have to solder to the tiny pins of the WM8975 chip? Dumb question, but I've read the posts a couple times and still can't figure it out. Thanks._

 

I would remove all four caps 86, 87 and 53, 54 and then use 53, 54 caps pads.
 If after modification you still can regulate volume with the click wheel it will degrade the SQ.

 Ok. Bought the 1st nano, caps and all parts! The weather is sucks, so it could take few days longer to deliver all stuff!


----------



## dcc84

What I'm most worried about is taking the ribbon out. So far, I've just been trying to do it still connected through the very small pry spot. VVS if I do take out 53,54 pads, I will def. need to disconnect ribbon. Do you know how to do this? I can't really get a good feel for the mechanism by looking at it from this view.


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcc84* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I'm most worried about is taking the ribbon out. So far, I've just been trying to do it still connected through the very small pry spot. VVS if I do take out 53,54 pads, I will def. need to disconnect ribbon. Do you know how to do this? I can't really get a good feel for the mechanism by looking at it from this view._

 

I don't have mine yet. Go to Youtube. There you will find lots of video how to disassemble your nano.


----------



## wgr73

dcc84, look at my pictures. You'll notice the black bar going across the ribbon cable slot, that flips up(both of mine are open in the pics). Just use a jewelers flathead screwdriver to flip it up. Its easy!


----------



## dcc84

Thanks for the heads up vvs and wgr!

 Got it! Wasn't even that bad. Just had to know where to look. Ok and I'm sure this is mentioned in the thread but I've already been over it so many times and can't remember, if I take out 53,54,86,87 caps and reconnect to 53,54 pads, does this still preserve the regular headphone jack or not?


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dcc84, look at my pictures. You'll notice the black bar going across the ribbon cable slot, that flips up(both of mine are open in the pics). Just use a jewelers flathead screwdriver to flip it up. Its easy!_

 













 I though that you need to take apart some peaces to get access to the cable. And you just needed to unlock the connector! LOL!


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcc84* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the heads up vvs and wgr!

 Got it! Wasn't even that bad. Just had to know where to look. Ok and I'm sure this is mentioned in the thread but I've already been over it so many times and can't remember, if I take out 53,54,86,87 caps and reconnect to 53,54 pads, does this still preserve the regular headphone jack or not?_

 

If you take out all four caps, you disconnect both the lineout and headphone jack. The advantage of the nano 1G is that the solder pads are huge compared to the 4G, so you don't need to disconnect anything. Unless you're using huge gauge wire, you don't need to remove any of the caps. Even the 4G solder pads were big enough that I didn't have to remove anything. I truly don't understand this insistence on removing the four caps.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* 
_ If after modification you still can regulate volume with the click wheel it will degrade the SQ._

 

This isn't necessarily true, but either way you don't want to be regulating the volume of your line out with the click wheel; that should be the amp's job. In any case, leave the caps in so that the line out and headphone jack will still work.


----------



## Prenxta

Does anyone know what value the output coupling caps are in an unmodified 4G iPod to the headphone jack?


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_











 I though that you need to take apart some peaces to get access to the cable. And you just needed to unlock the connector! LOL!_

 

Yep! Its easy


----------



## krc2

well my 4gig 2nd gen nano is open, guts on the table. I had already smashed the end of it by dropping a weight on it, causing the clickwheel to cease functioning (but the ipod to work otherwise).
 Anyways, she's a test subject: anyone care to point me in a direction to work with>? I'll gladly guinea pig this one if you guys are down to put together some plans/suggestions


----------



## joneeboi

If you could snap some close-up macro pics of the Apple 66AJSTB sound chip that would help me a bit. I have a picture but getting in real close would make it easier.


----------



## krc2

joneeboi 
 I'm going to try and snap some higher-rez pics later on tonight.
 First little problem I encountered though- the small ribbon cable that connects the top hold slide button has snapped out. I'll take pictures to show what I mean, but this will probably result in a bit of backtracking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 In general how is the Apple 66AJSTB?


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This isn't necessarily true, but either way you don't want to be regulating the volume of your line out with the click wheel; that should be the amp's job. In any case, leave the caps in so that the line out and headphone jack will still work._

 

That is true. You see everybody have different approach. To tell the truth I am perfectionist with everything. And sometimes it hurt me but there is nothing I can do! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just remember reading thread were Vinnie was asking returned their iMods. Apparently he forgot some how he doesn't understand remove the caps and folks were reporting that by increasing the volume they could hear not increasing the loudness but quality in sound. So he said that after fixing the problem it will sound even better! That was 4th gen ipod.

 That said if I am see just theoretical potential downgrading the SQ I won’t think twice.

 Anyway it also depends on your choice of needs. If you want to leave phone jack in working condition then you:
 -take your signal through the dock line-out 
 -drill a hole somewhere to take the signal out
 in any case you need to use external case for the caps.

 I personally don't care about phone jack since I will use it only in combo with my amp, so I sacrifice the jack if I see potential in doing it.

 my 2c


----------



## krc2

joneeboi one more question:
 will I have to remove the battery on the board to get to the connections? Or is the 66ajstb nearer to the bottom of the board?


----------



## joneeboi

The 66AJSTB is on the side opposite to the battery.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just remember reading thread were Vinnie was asking returned their iMods. Apparently he forgot some how he doesn't understand remove the caps and folks were reporting that by increasing the volume they could hear not increasing the loudness but quality in sound. So he said that after fixing the problem it will sound even better! That was 4th gen ipod._

 

My line out is unaffected by the click wheel volume control. Are you saying that removing the caps will increase the sound quality? I'm sorry, I'm just having trouble piecing together what you're saying here.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Youtube have everything!

YouTube - iPod Nano 1st Generation Repair Guide_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a nano 1G disassembly tutorial.

iPod Nano 1st Gen. Disassembly: Installing Battery & Logic Board - Removing Rear Panel (page 1/6)

 I'm sure if Vinnie could have fit caps into the iMod nano, he would have done it. The nano 1G measures 3.5" x 1.6" x 0.27", or 88.9mm by 40.6mm by 6.89mm. The iMod's BG NX Hi-Q measures as small as 4mm x 7mm. It will be very hard to get that kind of clearance inside the super tiny casing. I'd try squeezing it underneath the battery. That would be my first guess, but I still doubt you could fit it there. Maybe you could drill two holes that will let the caps stick out of the casing. Just spitballing here, try at your own risk.

 As for sonic impressions, I'll try my best. My setup is the 4G click wheel (with WM8975 CODEC) to 220uF Nichicon UPWs from Mouser to a Kobiconn 3.5mm stereo jack also from Mouser. The amp I listened most intently with was my Millett Hybrid MAX. The MAX's settings are a supply voltage of 27.0VDC with 12FK6 biased to 13.5VDC, Toshiba 2SC3422/2SA1359 BJT diamond buffers biased to 110mV. My boutique caps are 1000uF Panasonic FC at CA2 and CA7 with 5.1uF Solen bypass caps at CA8 and CA9. Mini-mini cable is generic. Headphones are Grado SR60s with rescreening, sticky tack driver mod, GS1K pads with glue mod. Indeed a very personal setup, nothing any of you might have, even within MHM builders and SR60 owners. My files are encoded to MP3 320kbps VBR.

 Plugging straight into the WM8975 (the datasheet says headphones can be plugged straight into the DAC if 220uF caps are put in series first), I listened to the very first time, as Nigel Kennedy played Sibelius' Violin Concerto in D minor, the performer's breathing. I had heard this sound before and I suspected it was hard breathing, but the clarity and intensity of his breath was very evident. I assure you I'm not exaggerating, as I've heard people exclaim that x piece of equipment allowed them to hear performer y breath and they could tell which nostril they were breathing from and performer y had a cold for the past two weeks. It's impossible to ignore this breathing. Switching over to some Hillsong's Savior King for some Marty Sampson singing In Your Freedom, I heard a portion of a drum beat I'd never heard before. It's just the snare going away on a regular system, but with the diyMod + MHM + SR60s, I could hear the hi hats going off in the distance. It was fairly not but overly subtle on this setup, but it's unnoticeable even in the car where we listen to this track plenty of times. The instrument separation was very precise, as I could switch from focusing on the drums and go to the acoustic guitar in one ear and then to the electric in the other ear to the piano in the back very smoothly. Loads of detail were available to me as though I were at a detail buffet and I could choose to listen to anything I wanted. On this setup, the highs sparkle quite nicely, balancing out the Toshiba BJTs' punchy bass. The corner frequency for this setup is ridiculously low, so bass rolloff isn't a concern (much lower than 1Hz). In fact, I think I've struck a nice balance between punchiness and extension. I prefer a fun, impactful bass, and this setup delivers it almost as well as I had heard with the Ayre Evolution CD player + Stax SR404 + SRM006tII listening to the same track. The noise floor is very quiet. Plugging in the iPod charger and pausing the music and turning the volume knob all the way up makes the AC noise only barely audible, so at listening volumes it's not a problem at all.

 Overall, the take home message here is the separation. I really felt like I was onstage, walking between the performers to hear what they had to offer, although I'm sure volumes onstage are orders of magnitude larger than what I was experiencing. I like how everything meshes together right now, which is why I'm hesitant to even try the Black Gates. Even within the MHM builders, my setup is pretty far from what they recommend. My SR60s are one-of-a-kind, and I'm using Nichicons (220uF no less) as my diyMod caps. In other words, your mileage will vary greatly from mine as I'm sure no one will ever have this setup. That should be the caveat for a lot of reviews._

 

thx for those 2 guides, i found it very easy to try now...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcc84* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you guys think this mod compares soundwise to building an ipod dock connector to access line-out?

 Also, hows the nano 1G mod goin vvs?_

 

x2

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcc84* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you say "straight out of the WM8975" is that the same as soldering to C86 and C87? Or does that literally mean you have to solder to the tiny pins of the WM8975 chip? Dumb question, but I've read the posts a couple times and still can't figure it out. Thanks._

 

x2

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you take out all four caps, you disconnect both the lineout and headphone jack. The advantage of the nano 1G is that the solder pads are huge compared to the 4G, so you don't need to disconnect anything. Unless you're using huge gauge wire, you don't need to remove any of the caps. Even the 4G solder pads were big enough that I didn't have to remove anything. I truly don't understand this insistence on removing the four caps.




 This isn't necessarily true, but either way you don't want to be regulating the volume of your line out with the click wheel; that should be the amp's job. In any case, leave the caps in so that the line out and headphone jack will still work._

 

still listening (reading?!)...


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My line out is unaffected by the click wheel volume control. Are you saying that removing the caps will increase the sound quality? I'm sorry, I'm just having trouble piecing together what you're saying here._

 


 If you are using phone jack or dock line out pins to take signal out of your ipod, then I believe so. But it doesn’t mean that I am right. 
 Anyway if you are satisfied with the result then I am happy for you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the way could you please take a shot to show how you soldered wires in your 4th gen ipod?


----------



## joneeboi

vvs_75:

 Please refer to original post for the picture. I removed two components that were sitting where the wires are now, but I can't identify what they were. They looked kind of like diodes, but that doesn't make any sense to me.

 iQEM:

 As long as you solder the wires after the audio chip and before it goes through any other circuit element, you essentially follow the iMod's design philosophy. Other than the length of the copper trace on the circuit board, there isn't much affecting the sound signal. The WM8975 in the iPod 4G and the nano 1G and the WM8758 in the 5G/5.5G come in QFN packaging, so they are insanely small, making it near impossible to solder to two adjacent pins. Find the electrical equivalent of the pins, such as the solder pads between the chip's pins and some capacitors and you should be fine.


----------



## dcc84

Dang. I was soldering last night and realized I had bought a huge gauge of solder wire at radio shack. Does anyone know where you can get jumper wires that are about the same size as battery connects in ipod (1G - I don't know if they're all the same)


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## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_vvs_75:

 Please refer to original post for the picture. I removed two components that were sitting where the wires are now, but I can't identify what they were. They looked kind of like diodes, but that doesn't make any sense to me.
_

 

Now I got it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You have 4th gen non colour ipod and I moded 4th gen photo ipod. Just checked again your pictures and the pads on your ipod definitely bigger then on mine.


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## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcc84* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dang. I was soldering last night and realized I had bought a huge gauge of solder wire at radio shack. Does anyone know where you can get jumper wires that are about the same size as battery connects in ipod (1G - I don't know if they're all the same)_

 

You mean Radio Shack doesn't carry any smaller sizes? I got my wire from navships on eBay, 30 AWG teflon 7 strand SPC. He has a huge selection, and has served head-fiers well over the years. Very reliable. The only caveat I have is that the 30 AWG wire is one size away from what my wire stripper can strip. 28 would serve you well, I think.


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## wgr73

Hey joneeboi, i was gonna ask you. From your pictures it looks like you went from the "-" side of the capacitors to a *new* headphone jack...did you decide not to use the one that was built in??


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey joneeboi, i was gonna ask you. From your pictures it looks like you went from the "-" side of the capacitors to a *new* headphone jack...did you decide not to use the one that was built in??_

 

I did use a new headphone jack. I don't have a sufficiently portable amp yet (one that will fit into my jacket's breast pocket and isn't completely noticeable when I hug someone), so I decided to keep the original headphone jack intact. One major consquence of this design decision is that I have to somehow incorporate a new jack, which leads to an effectively larger player, which then leads to add-ons much like my diyMod 4G's rocket pack. At the same time, this affords the possibility of slightly larger (better?) capacitors than the original iMod's Black Gate NX Hi-Q caps, though Black Gate's NX line is already of high quality. I didn't have the Black Gates on hand, so I had to use some slightly larger, overspec'ed caps that required some method of stabilization. That's where the Tic-Tac box, mummified with electric tape to my iPod, comes in. I'll be making an order of Black Gates soon-ish. We'll see how that goes.


----------



## barqy

-great stuff!! iwas waiting for someone to offer a DIY of the imod...
 -is anyone offering this service yet (besides vinnie)?
 - if not, does anyone have any spare black gates cap they can sell me to try? 


 cheers


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## wgr73

Thanks j! It looked like it. I'll do the same thing. Its easier.


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## joneeboi

Just wanted to report that work has gone under way to make a tutorial for the diyMod 5G. The only thing is this board is much, much harder for me to figure out than the 4G click wheel. Basically, the trace is hard to find from the pin, and once I post some pics, you'll see what I mean. The dude at this page has picture of some very obvious caps that go to the headphone out, but I'm not finding a short between the line out pins of the WM8758 chip and either side of the caps, so I'll keep investigating. 




 The closest I came to anything was an increasing resistance between the line out pin and one of the pads of the huge capacitors, starting around 1400Kohms and slowly climbing up to 1600Kohms as I remove the leads. I suspect some current [from] the DMM caused this odd activity.

 Opening the iPod video was difficult on its own, so beginners may want to take caution. This iPod is extra annoying not only in its complexity, but also in the ludicrous amounts of adhesive used. Once you remove some of it, it's near impossible to put it back to its previous effectiveness. It's not that the logic board necessarily needs that much adhesive as it's all pretty cramped inside anyway, but I guess Apple wanted to be doubly sure of its security.

 This has gotten me to scratch my head quite a bit. I'm beginning to question whether or not it's worth the trouble. I know this feeling will pass, but it's greatly frustrating working into the wee hours of the night (wee for me anyways) with a full day ahead of you and getting nowhere. If anyone would care to open up their 5G and explore with me, that would be of great assistance. Better yet, if someone would open their 5G iMod...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Alas, my bed beckons me, as I have many pages and hours of studying tomorrow/today. Help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## wgr73

Great work J! Yeah, its good to get some sleep. I just tossed my 5G because of the MB and HDD failing....too bad! I could have opened it up and really not had to worry about anything. But whatever, im sure you will get the answers. 

 My click-wheel for my nano should be in today, so an iMod nano i should have hopefully by tomorrow night!...if I get time!


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks j! It looked like it. I'll do the same thing. Its easier._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* 
_ My click-wheel for my nano should be in today, so an iMod nano i should have hopefully by tomorrow night!...if I get time!_

 

Wow, look at what I started. I hope this rocket pack thing doesn't become too common 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I personally don't mind the aesthetics of it, but never thought people would want to copy it. Interesting stuff. Hope all goes well for you this time around, wgr. Remember, bring on the pics!


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## CAvanessia

I am very excited to see the final product and a guide.

 Thanks joneeboi for sharing and the contributors. I think the information will be useful to many, many people on the board.


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## iQEM

Deleted !


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## iQEM

oh yea, 1 more thing...did anyone here have try GoPod ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if you dont notice, GoPod is a tweak for uncapped by firmware...i used it now and my Nano sound awesome, more soundstage, even bass roll-off was gone, and got more impact on bass & other freq...or just make it simple, GoPod make the SQ more shine than before (stock)...if you ppl had tried em, how GoPod compare to a real iMod/Gmod ?


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## joneeboi

There's very little need for a tutorial, iQEM. You have a garden variety of iPod opening pictorial/tutorials, and besides opening your iPod, all you need to do is: solder some wires to the board; drill a hole; and basically make an interconnect with some caps in the sleeving, which there is another tutorial for in this very subforum. After all, we are in a do-it-*yourself* forum here. 

 The most damage you could do to your iPod happens while you open it, so the abundance of tutorials for that process should already almost fully equip you to do this mod. Once it's open, solder this and that there, drill a hole, make an interconnect, voila.


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## iQEM

Deleted !


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## joneeboi

Here are some pictures of my progress. I've found the pads I need the DAC to connect to, but I don't know where to grab the signal from. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction.







 The DAC of interest. LOUT1 and ROUT1 aren't as obvious as the iPod nano 1G, and only LOUT2 has a visible trace; ROUT2 can't be found. Even the signal from LOUT2 can't be found.










 edit: That pin 5 should be pin 4.


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## iQEM

this day i had test 2 Gmod (my friends had it) myself and surprised that Gmod doesn't look different from standart ipod...only the blackgates dock line out look different than dock that ussually use for amping...how they do that ? i mean, why joneeboi had to put cap on a tictac box, not copy Gmod or iMod form ? can you try to figure out & make DIYmod more simple ? no intend to push you, just curious about the form factor...that's all, thx...

 note:
 how about GoPod guys ? no one had response about it yet ?!


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## jERiCOh

I'd like to help but I need the pin configuration... Is it the same as the WM8750 ? http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/.../en/WM8750.pdf


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## joneeboi

As far as I know, the WM8750 and the 8758 are the same. My source of knowledge comes from general Googling. The pinout for this chip seems different from the ones in the 4G and the nano 1G. I tried following the trace from the dock back to somewhere around the chip, but it seems Apple used a 4-layered PCB to get their work done, so I can't "trace" it that easily (get it? *uncontrolled laughter*). I might try soldering to those giant yellow caps on the other side of the iPod and see what my luck is.


----------



## joneeboi

Blessed are the feet of those who bring good news!

 I figured it out. I feel like such a dork. Refer to the picture of the WM8758. Reading around, turns out the 8758 isn't like the 8750 so much as it is to the WM8978. Those components with the Z on them are the same as on my 4G and the nano 1G, and I can't believe I didn't connect the two earlier. Turns out the audio feeds just come from different pins. Nevertheless, the procedure remains the same. Remove the Z components, solder from there to the line out pads as shown in that one picture above. I think you may need to connect another wire to connect the grounds or something, as the audio is still fuzzy coming out of the line out. It may be a grounding issue, so someone may want to investigate this matter. I tested sound with my MHM, which is supposed to have DC blocking capabilities. Something else is amiss as my left channel measures 1.44Vrms while the right channel sits at a measly 1.0Vrms; for reference, my diyMod 4G sports a commanding 1.5Vrms.

 That's that. The adventurous may want to try this on their own while I study for the three finals this week (the last of the three is on a Saturday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). My mind can finally rest from this diyMod hoopla.


----------



## ishtob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this day i had test 2 Gmod (my friends had it) myself and surprised that Gmod doesn't look different from standart ipod...only the blackgates dock line out look different than dock that ussually use for amping...how they do that ? i mean, why joneeboi had to put cap on a tictac box, not copy Gmod or iMod form ? can you try to figure out & make DIYmod more simple ? no intend to push you, just curious about the form factor...that's all, thx...

 note:
 how about GoPod guys ? no one had response about it yet ?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I believe it would be easy to do a gmod ourselves, just need to take the L and R channel signal from the dac, use some nice wires and hook it up to the ipod dock out (the appropriate pins of course). and put he NX-hiQ blackgates in the dock connecter.

 All it is doing is bypassing the crappy stock caps and then put the blackgate in its place OUTSIDE of the ipod, i think joneeboi has the same idea, but he decide to encase the caps in a tictac box instead of the LOD


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## ishtob

i believe those things with a white Z are them have, on the side closer to the chip(the side with the white line), the L & ROUT2. I checked mine under a magnifying glass, you can see a faint trace running there. sign.. such a tiny trace.. no wonder the sq gets degraded so much


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i mean, why joneeboi had to put cap on a tictac box, not copy Gmod or iMod form ?_

 

I wanted to keep the headphone jack on my iPod 4G functional. I intend to put the Black Gates inside once I set up my portable diyMod rig.


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## ishtob

That is a good idea, to test if it works first before you make permanent changes to your ipod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 smart

 Too bad the 5G ipods dont have any space inside. I am trying to device a way to get rid of the original jack and use that space for the blackgates then route them to the jack for output.  so no headphone jack, and need a LOD to operate. But since I use my ipod with amp all the time anyways, it won't be a problem.

 my blackgates are in the mail.. I hope there will be enough room


----------



## joneeboi

I just wanted to clear the air, the top two Z parts are the ones you want to remove.

 The diyMod 5G has issues fitting itself as it is. I'm using the same 30AWG wires from before, and running the two wires between the DAC and dock positions has prevented the click wheel from fitting uniformly, and I'm pretty sure I have to run another wire between the dock and CODEC grounds. Not only would you have to find space for the caps, but you'd have to route the wires to and from the caps, which is already difficult to do without the caps. The GMod guys said they slipped the caps inside, so I guess it's possible. I really just want to see the BGs before making a judgment, though.

 FYI, there's a (cheap?) iPod nano 1G 4GB in the Source forums perfect for diyModding.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Blessed are the feet of those who bring good news!

 I figured it out. I feel like such a dork. Refer to the picture of the WM8758. Reading around, turns out the 8758 isn't like the 8750 so much as it is to the WM8978. Those components with the Z on them are the same as on my 4G and the nano 1G, and I can't believe I didn't connect the two earlier. Turns out the audio feeds just come from different pins. Nevertheless, the procedure remains the same. Remove the Z components, solder from there to the line out pads as shown in that one picture above. I think you may need to connect another wire to connect the grounds or something, as the audio is still fuzzy coming out of the line out. It may be a grounding issue, so someone may want to investigate this matter. I tested sound with my MHM, which is supposed to have DC blocking capabilities. Something else is amiss as my left channel measures 1.44Vrms while the right channel sits at a measly 1.0Vrms; for reference, my diyMod 4G sports a commanding 1.5Vrms.

 That's that. The adventurous may want to try this on their own while I study for the three finals this week (the last of the three is on a Saturday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). My mind can finally rest from this diyMod hoopla._

 

then go study now for finals, joneeboi...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 goodluck, mate !

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ishtob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe it would be easy to do a gmod ourselves, just need to take the L and R channel signal from the dac, use some nice wires and hook it up to the ipod dock out (the appropriate pins of course). and put he NX-hiQ blackgates in the dock connecter.

 All it is doing is bypassing the crappy stock caps and then put the blackgate in its place OUTSIDE of the ipod, i think joneeboi has the same idea, but he decide to encase the caps in a tictac box instead of the LOD_

 

LOD ? what's is that, ishtob ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ishtob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




 i believe those things with a white Z are them have, on the side closer to the chip(the side with the white line), the L & ROUT2. I checked mine under a magnifying glass, you can see a faint trace running there. sign.. such a tiny trace.. no wonder the sq gets degraded so much_

 

still reading...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wanted to keep the headphone jack on my iPod 4G functional. I intend to put the Black Gates inside once I set up my portable diyMod rig._

 

then i'll wait for the time to come...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 since i'm not used to do this on my own, but i really want to try it by myself now...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ishtob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is a good idea, to test if it works first before you make permanent changes to your ipod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 smart

 Too bad the 5G ipods dont have any space inside. I am trying to device a way to get rid of the original jack and use that space for the blackgates then route them to the jack for output.  so no headphone jack, and need a LOD to operate. But since I use my ipod with amp all the time anyways, it won't be a problem.

 my blackgates are in the mail.. I hope there will be enough room_

 

are there any other alternative than blackgates ? i dont think there will be enough room for my nano here...


----------



## fatman711

LOD is a lineout dock. 

 You use it to connect your amp to the line out of the ipod


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## iQEM

oh, i c...thx for explain it, fatman711...i have see & used it before but never heard they called it LOD...


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## joneeboi

I cleaned up the OP a bit for easier referencing. I will try to streamline things as much as possible for easy access to information.


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## wgr73

Sick find Jone! I didn't get my click wheel in on Saturday, so im sure it will be here today. I'll post back my mod...once its done.


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## fatman711

You get deliveries on Saturday in Mexico? That's awesome!

 I was so happy today to get my hd580s on a Sunday! I love holiday delivery hours!


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## joneeboi

What he said was he doesn't receive mail on Saturdays in New Mexico.


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## ishtob

good luck on your finals joneeboi


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## wgr73

Lol

 Well, kind of. I do get mail on Saturdays, it just didnt. But yeah, joneeboi, I live in *New* Mexico!


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## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ishtob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good luck on your finals joneeboi_

 

Thanks, ishtob, I'm really going to need loads of it. This diyMod 5G has consumed so much of my time! It only works in theory; I [haven't] actually fixed the lineout Vrms disparity yet. Alas, there's no time for this until after the 20th. Happy studying and shopping to the rest of you.


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## joneeboi

Black Gates are on the way


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## ishtob

awesome.. mine too, I have a 5th Gen ipod video sitting around. I'm going to tweak around with it after my finals are over


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## joneeboi

Yeah, I should have waited till after finals before playing around with it. I just had my first final, and while I did okay AFAIK, it took up lots of time. Maybe you can help me figure out what's gone wrong with mine.


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## wgr73

Hey, I have a question joneeboi...I got click wheel in and installed the caps to as per my drawing at caps C86 and C87(no joke it took 7 minutes!!), now why does the click wheel still affect the volume? I thought it was a direct feed from the lineout?


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## joneeboi

You need to shift wires to the pair of caps with the label 'Z' on them. Check the original post's nano 1G section. You probably have them on C87 and C86. You need to solder your wires to the north ends of C53 and C54. This change shouldn't take too long.


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## wgr73

Your a beast! Thank you! Hey one more quickey...if I soldered my caps on the wrong way would I get sound out of the mini?


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## joneeboi

That depends on the type of caps you're using. With most caps, a stripe will indicate the negative end, though some nonpolar caps will have them. Film caps don't care. If you soldered it backwards, as far as I understand capacitors, the sound should still go. Either way, you don't want to do it. The iPod to the lead without the stripe, from the striped lead to the jack. If you're still not getting any sound, you may want to check if the jack is grounded.


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## wgr73

The thing is im getting sound...i just wanted to check to see if i got lucky. I dont have a volt meter here to check polarity!


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## wgr73

Got it! Pics soon!! Thanks again joeeboi


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## fatman711

pics! Pics! Did you manage to squeeze everything in? That would be madness!


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## wgr73

Well I couldn't squeeze everything in, but the tic tac container that joneeboi made up was a good one! Some of the first pics are of me assembling it, so it looks like a mess!

 Sound Impressions: *DiyiModNano*

 WOW! Thats all I can say. It sounds rediculously better than the headphone out, and even the lineout! The resolution has been upped by at least 5 times! I am in awe. I listened to a 128kbps song and it was that much better. You can really hear the low bitrate so be careful! I put my headphones back into the headphone jack just to tease and it sounded flat and muffled. This is just insane! And im not even using blackgates, im using another non-polar brand...not sure, I'll have to check. Here are some pics!!!!! Thanks joneeboi.


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## CAvanessia

wow. i'm very excited after reading the impressions.

 unfortunately i am in the finals week too. 

 good job wgr73!


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## wgr73

Thanks CA! I'm actually in finals week too. I've been up for a little over 36 hours now! No joke, im super dizzy. It is now time for me to goto bed, so I'll have to talk to you guys later. See ya.


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## joneeboi

Great pics, wgr! We're going to have to do something about those caps though, now that we know it works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I hope this Tic Tac thing isn't a trend. *walks off in contemplation and mutters* I wonder if Juicy Fruit would work...


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## joneeboi

Salut, les amis.

 I just came to report a successful diyMod 5G. Man, that was an annoying bug. Good news with this diyMod is that it's aesthetically identical to the original. Black Gates are shipping from partsconneXion tomorrow. Gotta sleep early for a full day of studying tomorrow. And I mean full. I will look back on this finals season and shake my head.

 edit: devotees and others will want to regularly check the original post. I'm constantly updating it, trying to make it as streamlined and smooth as possible.


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## fatman711

that looks sweet guys! Just want to thank you guys once again for all the time that you guys spent on researching this stuff!

 Everyone needs to go study! LOL. I have exams too and have been on this site all day....


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## dumbears

Good topic to research.

 Months ago, I started my mod to iPod Photo. It might be wrong, since I just desoldered those Z caps (C84 & C86) and shorted the connections.






 Instead of having the BGs inside the iPod, I installed it in the iPod dock/connector. Both have enough room for the caps.

 BTW, I'm using 22uF instead of 47uF. Can sb advise what the differences between 22uF and 47uF used here?


----------



## Jambo

The capacitance determines the frequency response. The cap forms a high pass filter with your headphone speaker. The -3dB frequency of this filter is f = 1/(2 PI x Z x C) where Z is the impedance of your headphones. As you can see, a smaller capacitor will pass less bass - how much less depends on the impedance of your headphones.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great pics, wgr! *We're going to have to do something about those caps though*, now that we know it works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Lol, thanks! I will have to do something about this.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jambo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The capacitance determines the frequency response. The cap forms a high pass filter with your headphone speaker. The -3dB frequency of this filter is f = 1/(2 PI x Z x C) where Z is the impedance of your headphones. As you can see, a smaller capacitor will pass less bass - how much less depends on the impedance of your headphones._

 

It's not just the capacitor and headphones though. You also have to take into account the input impedance of the amplifier you're using. I think a typical amp has about 10Kohm to 50Kohm of impedance, so that in conjunction with the headphones determines the bass response. Assuming you're using Grados at 32ohm impedance and an amp with 50K input impedance and 47uF BGs,

 f = 1/(2*pi*(50,000+32)*47uf)
 f = 1/(2*pi*50,032**0.000047)
 f = 0.0677Hz

 Like dumbears, I went with a slightly smaller capacity 22uF BG NX Hi-Q, but even that has a corner frequency of 0.145Hz with this theoretical setup. I think typical CMoy setups have around 20K input impedance. I'd say worry about the amp's impedance rather than the caps.

 dumbears:

 As for your iPod photo, if you could take an aerial shot of the WM8975 perhaps I can help you a bit better. From that angle I can't see the necessary traces. I don't think shorting the caps will make that much of a difference, as the goal is to completely avoid the internal circuitry. I haven't looked into it extensively, but I imagine you could solder the wires from the traces to the iPod's dock. I hadn't even thought of doing it that way. I'll look into it tonight. It would make things a lot cleaner. *wanders off in thought*


----------



## barqy

fantastic work

 i just bought some BG caps off another member, hopefully I can do my 4th gen later~!

 a little OT, but if someone is looking for a cheap silver 2nd gen Ipod nano (4gb) to purchase for testing on, give me a shout.

 I have one (missing the plastic protect cover), I just installed a new LCD screen (works perfectly now), and I believe it needs a new battery too (battery doesn't hold). Everything works, except the body is a bit bruised (I have a new case for it though), and the click wheel turns flawlessly, but you need to press hard in order for the menu buttons to work.


----------



## ishtob

wouldnt anything under 20Hz be good since humans cant hear below that freq?


----------



## joneeboi

True, 20Hz is the maximum threshold. Even if it's the oft-quoted limit, I doubt many can hear or distinguish the difference between 20Hz from 30Hz from 80Hz without special equipment. But that's a whole other area we won't get into. All the same, the iMod, GPod and diyMod all have the potential for amazing bass.

 Here's a startling reminder I had earlier today: the chip in the iPods all cost Apple under $5 each (from extrapolation). Be wary of the rave reviews of the iMod, GPod and even my own of the diyMod. In a match between the Wolfsons and, say, a Benchmark DAC1, my money is on the Benchmark (figuratively speaking, of course). I don't know what's inside a DAC1, but I'm guessing that the huge chassis isn't hiding anything smaller than the WM8975.


----------



## vvs_75

Did you track the (C84 & C86) with millimeter from the DAC chip?
 I tried on my first ruined board and couldn't! 

 The WM8975 is on other side of the board and look like the caps you using doesn't go the WM8975. 

 In any way as joneeboi said you need solder wires from the pads to the iPod's dock or phone's jack directly to make a difference.




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dumbears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good topic to research.

 Months ago, I started my mod to iPod Photo. It might be wrong, since I just desoldered those Z caps (C84 & C86) and shorted the connections.






 Instead of having the BGs inside the iPod, I installed it in the iPod dock/connector. Both have enough room for the caps.

 BTW, I'm using 22uF instead of 47uF. Can sb advise what the differences between 22uF and 47uF used here?_


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol, thanks! I will have to do something about this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I got my nano which was supposable need just to replace battery and its dead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I have coming another one in a few days. 

 Also I took apart my nano and it’s possibly that I be able to squeeze two 47mF Simic II caps. Simic II is best ELNA electrolytic and quite few people prefer it to the BG. 

 In meanwhile I am working on second part of the mod, which is film caps dock for my nano.


----------



## joneeboi

I added a spiel on the nano 2G at the bottom of the original post. Anyone with a nano 2G who can confirm or disprove my conjectures would be of great help, as I don't have one on hand.

 I'll post it here to save you time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 [size=medium]*iPod nano 2G*[/size] - untested

 That Apple branded 66AJSTB is supposed to be similar to the Wolfson WM8750, which should be similar tot he WM8975, according to the iPodlinux site. If anyone is so daring as to slice and dice their nano 2G's beautiful finish for the education of the community, I'm sure at least one person will be grateful for your DIY spirit. If my memory serves me, the 5G's WM8758 was supposed to be similar to the WM8750 when it actually borrowed more from the WM8978. If the 66AJSTB is more like the 5G's in that it shares the pinout of the WM8978, then the pair of caps sitting at the bottom middle of the chip, the ones with the darker yellow colour than the outside pairs, might be what you're looking for. In my experience, Apple has placed the target caps side by side, a fact that helped me figure out the diyMod 5G. If this policy is true, then the left side of the chip (as shown) cannot hold the traces we're looking for. If the 66AJSTB has the same pinout as the WM8978, then that darker yellow pair of caps process the information from OUT3 and OUT4 from the WM8978 datasheet, our target line out feeds. The leftmost dark yellow cap would then be OUT4, right, and the rightmost would be OUT3, which would be the left line output.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my nano which was supposable need just to replace battery and its dead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I have coming another one in a few days. 

 Also I took apart my nano and it’s possibly that I be able to squeeze two 47mF Simic II caps. Simic II is best ELNA electrolytic and quite few people prefer it to the BG. 

 In meanwhile I am working on second part of the mod, which is film caps dock for my nano._

 

Well with that setup, are you going to be using resistors in series as well?


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I added a spiel on the nano 2G at the bottom of the original post. Anyone with a nano 2G who can confirm or disprove my conjectures would be of great help, as I don't have one on hand.

 I'll post it here to save you time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [size=medium]*iPod nano 2G*[/size] - untested

 That Apple branded 66AJSTB is supposed to be similar to the Wolfson WM8750, which should be similar tot he WM8975, according to the iPodlinux site. If anyone is so daring as to slice and dice their nano 2G's beautiful finish for the education of the community, I'm sure at least one person will be grateful for your DIY spirit. If my memory serves me, the 5G's WM8758 was supposed to be similar to the WM8750 when it actually borrowed more from the WM8978. If the 66AJSTB is more like the 5G's in that it shares the pinout of the WM8978, then the pair of caps sitting at the bottom middle of the chip, the ones with the darker yellow colour than the outside pairs, might be what you're looking for. In my experience, Apple has placed the target caps side by side, a fact that helped me figure out the diyMod 5G. If this policy is true, then the left side of the chip (as shown) cannot hold the traces we're looking for. If the 66AJSTB has the same pinout as the WM8978, then that darker yellow pair of caps process the information from OUT3 and OUT4 from the WM8978 datasheet, our target line out feeds. The leftmost dark yellow cap would then be OUT4, right, and the rightmost would be OUT3, which would be the left line output.



_

 


 This post is interesting. I have a 2G nano (8gb), but before I choose to open it up I would need more information. If we could come to a conclusion on the locations of the correct caps, then I'd give it a shot! This ipod too is collecting dust!


----------



## joneeboi

My encouragement to you, wgr73, is that you could solder some wire to those caps without removing them. If it doesn't work out, you can desolder the wires just as quickly and nothing else will be affected in the operation of your iPod, assuming you don't snap a ribbon cable or something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## wgr73

Lol, thats true! Wouldn't want to do that again. I'll think about it.


----------



## bobby001

The correct caps are this one : 6,3 Volt / 47 µF / NX Hi-Q / 6,3 mm / 7,0 mm ?


----------



## joneeboi

You can use anything you want, but yes, those are the "correct" ones.


----------



## CAvanessia

lol. I asked the exact thing earlier today. I think I might pick up a pair of BG 47uf and a pair of 220uf just to see if i can hear the difference.


----------



## bobby001

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can use anything you want, but yes, those are the "correct" ones._

 

Higher the µF is, better it is ?

 How many wires I have to sold for the Video ? 3 : L, R & ground ? or only 2 : L & R ?


----------



## Jambo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not just the capacitor and headphones though. You also have to take into account the input impedance of the amplifier you're using. I think a typical amp has about 10Kohm to 50Kohm of impedance, so that in conjunction with the headphones determines the bass response. Assuming you're using Grados at 32ohm impedance and an amp with 50K input impedance and 47uF BGs,

 f = 1/(2*pi*(50,000+32)*47uf)
 f = 1/(2*pi*50,032**0.000047)
 f = 0.0677Hz
_

 

Apologies, I forgot about the headphone amp. In that case then only the amp input impedance is seen by the DAC, you don't need to include the headphone impedance as it is seen by the amplifier, not the DAC.


----------



## jamess71

Are there any guides to do the 80G Video iPod? I think I may try this over the holiday shutdown. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still a bit leary about cracking open my ipod though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks
 James


----------



## joneeboi

James:

 I haven't put together a guide because I don't think it's all that necessary. There's enough information on the OP that will get your iPod opened and diyModded. If you're really that uncomfortable doing it, I can do it for you. Essentially you need to crack it open, desolder two SMD caps and two SMD inductors, solder two tiny gauge wires and you're set. The most intimidating part of the mod for most would be opening the iPod, but there are plenty of walkthroughs on the internet, two of which I've listed in the OP.

 Here's a pictorial:
iPod 5th Generation (Video) Disassembly: Installing Logic Board - iPod Parts

 Here's the video for the iPod video:
ifixipodsfast.com iPod How To Video Tutorials - iPod Video Logic Board / Clickwheel Replacement Tutorial


 Hope all goes well for you.


----------



## jamess71

THanks for the reply. So my main concern, after cracking it, is the board layout. Finding the right devices to remove and where to solder. Is it going to be the same as the 4G?

 James


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobby001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Higher the µF is, better it is ?

 How many wires I have to sold for the Video ? 3 : L, R & ground ? or only 2 : L & R ?_

 

Yes, generally the higher the capacity the better, but after you hit a certain size you need to start considering cap quality. You only need something that can take as much as 1.55V, so that helps with reducing the size. Black Gate offers probably the highest quality nonpolar electrolytic you can find in the NX Hi-Q series; its performance is supposed to be film-like. The datasheet recommends 1uF for a line out configuration, so you have an endless amount of choices. Don't forget that sponsor ALO Audio, and members EFN and stevenkelby have made some pretty insane docks with non-BG caps; warrior05 made his own BG'd dock too. It's just convenient that the BG NX Hi-Q series is small and is of such high quality that makes it an excellent choice to fit inside an iPod's shell or an iPod dock.

 And you only need two wires for any of the diyMods, as far as I have seen.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamess71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_THanks for the reply. So my main concern, after cracking it, is the board layout. Finding the right devices to remove and where to solder. Is it going to be the same as the 4G?

 James_

 

It's similar to the 4G click wheel in that the caps are conveniently placed right next to the chip. I believe the 4G photo is a different beast though.


----------



## jERiCOh

There is a little excel file I made to match caps to your amp. I dunno if it's gonna be useful to someone but I found it useful in my research of "boutique" caps. Enjoy!


----------



## ishtob

would 0.47uF be enough for output cap?


----------



## jERiCOh

According to the formula if your amplifier has an impedance around 10k or higher = yes. 

 I'll post some pics and results when i'll be done with my setup. I'm waiting for a pair of those 3.3ufthat I got for cheap on ebay and a pair of Vitamin Q 1uf is on its way too.
 BTW thanks so much joneeboi for that gr8 thread !


----------



## joneeboi

It's all good, Jericho, I'm just glad to help. Meanwhile, if anyone wants to loan me an iPod nano 2G for testing...


----------



## ishtob

sweet... let me see if i can find place to fit in the 0.47uF caps in a 1gen nano


----------



## dcc84

good luck ishtob. I tried and tried, but if you find something let me know. Someone suggested earlier that you could drill a whole the width of the cap, and it would be poking out a the ipod casing by just a couple mils. I'm still workign on a better solution. There must be a way!


----------



## jERiCOh

Waiting for the caps now ... I tested it directly on the stock apple dock and it still works (nothing is ruined 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 BTW, I own a nano 2nd gen too ... Maybe I'll open it when I'll be done with his big brother.


----------



## wgr73

What did you do? Short the caps to the dock?


----------



## jERiCOh

Yes, I did something wrong !?


----------



## joneeboi

No, jERiCOh, that's perfect. It looks almost exactly like mine, except I used blue wire. Great picture too. I put it up on the OP.


----------



## wgr73

Lol, nah I was just wondering! Im happy your not done with your mod though


----------



## ishtob

just finished my 1gen mod, i decided to use the 47uF blackgate NX hi-Q so made a cut on the side of the case and lest them stick out 

 the caps are connected to the headphone jack out, I pulled out the original ribbon on the jack and soldered on my own 28awg SPC wires






 here's a shot of it in the case:


----------



## ishtob

as you can see, I was studing last night.. havent cleaned up my notes and textbooks


----------



## joneeboi

Nifty stuff, ishtob! Not only is the mod very inventive and creative, but that's a flippin' sweet case you have there.

 And is that some sort of organic chemistry you're studying? What program are you in?


----------



## ishtob

i picked up those case for 2 bucks from a local radioshack here in boston. I did not believe the tag the first time I was there, but since it was still there I asked for the price, and yup, 2 bucks it is. It's made for the 2nd Gen nano, but the extra tightness helps keep those caps in place better anyways 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and yes, that's my textbook for organic chemsitry, i'm in a 6-year pharmacy program


----------



## wgr73

Nice job ishtob!! Looks amazing! How do you think it sounds?


----------



## ishtob

bass is definately expanded alot more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and i'm getting some pretty nice deetailed and yet warm sound, only problem now is I cant use my output jack without an amp.. I tried it, and all the treble were too soft to be audible


----------



## ishtob

did I do something wrong if I cant use my headphone without an amp?

 the bass becomes overwhelming and the highs are barely audible


----------



## bobby001

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jERiCOh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




 Waiting for the caps now ... I tested it directly on the stock apple dock and it still works (nothing is ruined 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 BTW, I own a nano 2nd gen too ... Maybe I'll open it when I'll be done with his big brother._

 

I'm wondering a question when I saw your ipod : 

 You plug 2 wires but didn't remove anything : you can still use the normal line out. IF you solder the 2 caps which signal you will catch from the LOD : original one or the modded one : the two ways are working together : is it not bad ?

 (you did your mod on a Video ? )


----------



## wgr73

Bobby, hes not done with the mod. Eventually he'll have just the caps he purchased connected...not as shown in the picture.

 ishtob: Were you intending on using the built-in (via click wheel) amp to control your volume?


----------



## bobby001

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bobby, hes not done with the mod. Eventually he'll have just the caps he purchased connected...not as shown in the picture._

 

I know that, you didn't understand my question : he made a short circuit, he just plugged in // two wires without disconnecting the other circuit.

 So both signals are connecting to the same dock pin (with or without the caps don't care, it's not my meaning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) : nothing is strange for you about this fact ?

 For works properly has at least to remove the caps over the wolfson chips ! For cancel the original signal !!!!

 Am I wrong ?


----------



## jERiCOh

Theorically, if you build an highway to let the signal go through, the small and steep road in parallel will not be used. I'm planning to cut the bridges to that road tho...


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ishtob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_did I do something wrong if I cant use my headphone without an amp?

 the bass becomes overwhelming and the highs are barely audible_

 

What headphones are you using? I can't imagine wanting to listen to your iPod without an amp, since it would be so very loud. Wolfson says we can plug 16ohm headphones straight into the DAC. I wonder if that would be excessively loud. Though the Wolfsons allow you to connect your headphones straight, you normally have some sort of amp after the DAC anyway. How's it sound with the amp?

 bobby001:

 Yes, that's the iPod video. The signal in the original dock and the one that we are modding are the same one except that they travel through different paths. Personally I would remove the caps right after the DAC, but there are different ways of doing the diyMod.

 1) Remove only the caps after the DAC.
 2) Remove the inductors right before the dock.
 3) Combine 1) and 2).

 I personally did 3) because I wanted pads that were easier to solder to. At the very least, the diyModder should perform option 1) because that results in less signal being leaked all the way up to the dock. If you do just 2), then some of the electrons will travel all the way up to the dock, stealing some of the signal. In this case, jERiCOh is getting both the modded and unmodded signals at his line out (unless he did some more mods we don't know about), so I would only imagine that being bad for the sound. I don't know how that might affect it except for some sort of time deviation between the signals because of different paths, but I don't know if the time discrepancy is noticeable. Essentially, you don't want to do it that way. Maybe we're just splitting quarks here (okay, maybe not), but why unnecessarily introduce problems? Thanks for pointing that out, bobby. I noticed it but didn't give it any thought.

 I do want to point, however, the good job jERiCOh did in routing his wires. Notice how they travel around the Wolfson, around the click wheel and that chip on the bottom right. I didn't realize this until after closing up the iPod but we're splitting tenths of millimeters here, and *the wires can raise the front plate up, causing the click wheel to sink in*. It gives the iPod user a bit of a different tactile experience, but I wouldn't recommend it. jERiCOh's is almost a perfect example of how to route the wires.


----------



## bobby001

Stupid question :

 Is it possisble to remove the caps over the wolfson and solder the BG caps instead of them : one side of the black gates on the first contact (where is actually plug the diymod wire) and you solder the wire on the second side without touching the board.






 Black parts are BG (top BG's contact don't touch the board, just solder the wire on it and the other end of the wire on the dock)
 Green is cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is it possible or the BG are too big ? I didn't see BG beside a 5G board for realize the size


----------



## joneeboi

Ne vous on faites pas. Si nous ne savons pas, on demande, n'est-ce pas? (I'm assuming since you're sometimes in France you can read French 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 The simple answer is that the Black Gates are far too big to fit inside the case. What you *could* do is similar to what ishtob did: you could drill some holes through the front plate of the iPod so that the caps stick out of the front. Not as visually pleasing, but pretty cool if you do it right. That way you get to show off your sweet caps too.


----------



## bobby001

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ne vous en faites pas. Si nous ne savons pas, on demande, n'est-ce pas? (I'm assuming since you're sometimes in France you can read French 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 The simple answer is that the Black Gates are far too big to fit inside the case. What you *could* do is similar to what ishtob did: you could drill some holes through the front plate of the iPod so that the caps stick out of the front. Not as visually pleasing, but pretty cool if you do it right. That way you get to show off your sweet caps too._

 

You are right I'm french.

 Ok so I will put the BG in the LOD. Don't want to drill anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Like that I will also modify a dock with huge caps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I will only do it in the end of january when I will go back France


----------



## jERiCOh

The bridges are now cut ... 

I tried to only remove the caps, still getting that scroll click. Then, I removed the inductors and the scroll click disappeared. In conclusion, if you want a best signal without glitches you must remove the caps next to the dac and the inductors going the the dock.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ne vous en faites pas._

 

Ben, ça fait trop long que j'étudie. Je suis devenu parasseux avec ma grammaire.

 Remember to send a postcard


----------



## CAvanessia

I'm waiting for my nano and caps to arrive. =) Finals are over!

 Any ideas how RWA/ALO gets the signal into the dock connectors? I'm thinking about putting the caps into a big dock connector. 

 Are there unused pins in the iPod dock to get the signal out? There has to be a way since ALO dock works the same way.


----------



## joneeboi

The RWA/ALO collaboration only happened with the iMod 5G. Further, the iMod nano 1G only happened once as a custom job for drp. As for the dock, checking out Apple iPod dock interface pinout and signals @ pinouts.ru shows that there are no unused pins. Aside from that fact, ALO takes the line out signals from the same place as every other analogue iPod dock. The iMod 5G dock simply replaces the dock's output, such as jERiCOh has shown us here. If you can figure out a way to get the line out feed straight from the WM8975 to the dock, then do share. You could route the wires to the dock, but I couldn't tell you too specifically how. Send the feed from C53 to pin 3 and C54 to pin 4.


----------



## wgr73

Edited out!

 Sorry Bobby, I assumed you knew how this mod worked...my fault. I understand what he is doing, but your question was worded kinda weird so I didnt understand what you were saying; jericho explained it in a pretty good way.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I couldn't squeeze everything in, but the tic tac container that joneeboi made up was a good one! Some of the first pics are of me assembling it, so it looks like a mess!

 Sound Impressions: *DiyiModNano*

 WOW! Thats all I can say. It sounds rediculously better than the headphone out, and even the lineout! The resolution has been upped by at least 5 times! I am in awe. I listened to a 128kbps song and it was that much better. You can really hear the low bitrate so be careful! I put my headphones back into the headphone jack just to tease and it sounded flat and muffled. This is just insane! And im not even using blackgates, im using another non-polar brand...not sure, I'll have to check. Here are some pics!!!!! Thanks joneeboi.















_

 

nice picts, i miss that post before...


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jERiCOh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a little excel file I made to match caps to your amp. I dunno if it's gonna be useful to someone but I found it useful in my research of "boutique" caps. Enjoy!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What is the right way to measure amp impedence? Just to be sure.

 Look like my mini3 have 4000 ohm.


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The RWA/ALO collaboration only happened with the iMod 5G. Further, the iMod nano 1G only happened once as a custom job for drp. As for the dock, checking out Apple iPod dock interface pinout and signals @ pinouts.ru shows that there are no unused pins. Aside from that fact, ALO takes the line out signals from the same place as every other analogue iPod dock. The iMod 5G dock simply replaces the dock's output, such as jERiCOh has shown us here. If you can figure out a way to get the line out feed straight from the WM8975 to the dock, then do share. You could route the wires to the dock, but I couldn't tell you too specifically how. Send the feed from C53 to pin 3 and C54 to pin 4._

 

Ok. Yeah I just realized what jERiCOh did. That's exactly what I want to do, but I'm not sure either. That would be the best solution for the nano in my opinion.


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The RWA/ALO collaboration only happened with the iMod 5G. Further, the iMod nano 1G only happened once as a custom job for drp. As for the dock, checking out Apple iPod dock interface pinout and signals @ pinouts.ru shows that there are no unused pins. Aside from that fact, ALO takes the line out signals from the same place as every other analogue iPod dock. The iMod 5G dock simply replaces the dock's output, such as jERiCOh has shown us here. If you can figure out a way to get the line out feed straight from the WM8975 to the dock, then do share. You could route the wires to the dock, but I couldn't tell you too specifically how. Send the feed from C53 to pin 3 and C54 to pin 4._

 

Ok. Yeah I just realized what jERiCOh did. That's exactly what I want to do, but I'm not sure either how to do it either. Like you suggested I could just route the wires to pin 3 and 4. But will the original line out signals for 3 and 4 interfere with the signals from the WM8975? I think jERiCOh said we could cut the traces.


----------



## jERiCOh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok. Yeah I just realized what jERiCOh did. That's exactly what I want to do, but I'm not sure either how to do it either. Like you suggested I could just route the wires to pin 3 and 4. But will the original line out signals for 3 and 4 interfere with the signals from the WM8975? I think jERiCOh said we could cut the traces._

 

I was still hearing the click wheel when I was scrolling trough my library. It means that just installing the wires wasn't enough to get the signal from the DAC go straight to the dock connector. I had to remove the onboard capacitors and inductors as well to make the signal "perfect".


----------



## jERiCOh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the right way to measure amp impedence? Just to be sure.

 Look like my mini3 have 4000 ohm._

 

Re: HOW DO I MEASURE THE IMPEDANCE OF ANY CIRCUIT ??????????/

Measuring Input and Output Impedance

http://www.mhsoft.nl/Mysystem/InputOutputImpedance.asp Good calculator !


----------



## vvs_75

Thanks! I was lazy yesterday or probably too tired.


----------



## dumbears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you track the (C84 & C86) with millimeter from the DAC chip?
 I tried on my first ruined board and couldn't! 

 The WM8975 is on other side of the board and look like the caps you using doesn't go the WM8975. 

 In any way as joneeboi said you need solder wires from the pads to the iPod's dock or phone's jack directly to make a difference._

 

Perhaps, I'm wrong; the C84 & C86 may be dec caps. Does anyone know what they are?

 Moreover, I wonder why not short all the components in within signal path? Won't this be earlier than soldering a thin wire in those 1mm pads?


----------



## firefox360

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dumbears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps, I'm wrong; the C84 & C86 may be dec caps. Does anyone know what they are?

 Moreover, I wonder why not short all the components in within signal path? Won't this be earlier than soldering a thin wire in those 1mm pads?_

 

The reason to solder a thin wire is to bypass the even thinner circuit traces on the board. Plus by doing so you can use better conductors than what might be utilized on the PCB.

 I've just checked C84 & C86, and it seems as though they output to the dock connector (which I'm guessing we already know). But that's about all I know. They seem to have some resistance when I measured them with the previous recommended soldering points of those tiny resistors.


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## ishtob

okay, I figured out why my 1g nano was making the whining sound. I forgot to connect the ground for the jack  my bad.. the whining sound is now gone.

 anyways, this is a bit off-topic, but just want to show you guys the mini-cmoy i made to go with the nano


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## joneeboi

It wouldn't be easier because you'd have to find every single component that is in the signal path and short it, as opposed to soldering two wires to two pads. The latter isn't as hard as you think, whereas with the former you'd have to follow the traces everywhere which can be near impossible once you hit boards like the iPod video's where there are four layers of tracing, and then short everything which would somehow incorporate soldering to pads smaller than 1mm anyways. Not to mention troubleshooting would be a nightmare. By comparison, two wires to 1mm pads seems like a luxury.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok. Yeah I just realized what jERiCOh did. That's exactly what I want to do, but I'm not sure either how to do it either. Like you suggested I could just route the wires to pin 3 and 4. But will the original line out signals for 3 and 4 interfere with the signals from the WM8975? I think jERiCOh said we could cut the traces._

 

If you want to have the diyMod nano 1G with a dock-connecting signal, then desolder the caps. If you want a diyMod nano 1G with a pigtail, you can keep the caps.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ishtob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyways, this is a bit off-topic, but just want to show you guys the mini-cmoy i made to go with the nano_

 

That's insane, ishtob. Did you make a pigtail with a CMoy in it? That's pretty cool, man. That's a first class nano. I'm impressed. Want to share more intimate details of the amp? At first I didn't know what I was looking at


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## ishtob

joneeboi:
 I didnt pigtail cause this ipod's original trace for the jack was messed up when i bought it off another member here, so The bypass/blackgate caps are hooked up to the jack. the second reason to hook it up to the output jack was I can still use my othe amps (pimeta, and the still in progress SOHA) if I wanted to.

 as for that amp, it's just a really basic cmoy with the opa2132 opamp with a gain of 5, I'm still working on a design to use the OPA2227 with maybe a buffer, but I'm still a long way from getting a working design.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nice picts, i miss that post before...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

\

 Haha, thanks!


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## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ishtob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okay, I figured out why my 1g nano was making the whining sound. I forgot to connect the ground for the jack  my bad.. the whining sound is now gone.

 anyways, this is a bit off-topic, but just want to show you guys the mini-cmoy i made to go with the nano











_

 

more nicely !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want to have the diyMod nano 1G with a dock-connecting signal, then desolder the caps. If you want a diyMod nano 1G with a pigtail, you can keep the caps._

 

oh, i c...but what the diff between dock & pigtail ? which are better ? pro & cons ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_\

 Haha, thanks!_

 

you're welcome mate !


----------



## joneeboi

iQEM:

 Sound wise they are identical (yes, not exactly identical but pragmatically identical). The only way one could be better than the other depends on convenience and what gear you have.


----------



## powertoold

Would this work with 22uF BG NX caps?


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## CAvanessia

Powertoold,

 I'm going to quote joneeboi here:

  Quote:


 Typically the bigger the value, the better in terms of sound. A bigger value will reduce bass roll-off, but it also results in a bigger packaging. The Black Gates you mentioned will work perfectly. I actually picked up the 22uF ones, as I wanted them small as possible. The most important part, however, is the input impedance of your amp. Since you're inevitably going to be using your diyMod nano 1G with an amp, it will be helpful to know what its input impedance is. Ray Samuels amps usually have 50K input impedance, which is really great at reducing that lower corner frequency. Assuming you're using Grados at 32ohm impedance,

 f = 1/(2*pi*(50,000+32)*47uf)
 f = 1/(2*pi*50,032**0.000047)
 f = 0.0677Hz

 With 22uF caps instead,

 f = 0.145Hz

 There isn't too much to worry about in terms of bass rolloff, I think. 
 

iQEM,

 IMO I think the dock is a better option since you don't have to really drill anything on the iPod. If you're running to class and don't want to use the amp'ed diyMod, you canjust disconnect the dock and use the nano with the headphone out as if it wasn't even modded. You can disconnect the amp from the pigtail but you'll still have the pigtail to worry about. That's my 2 cents.


----------



## joneeboi

I just put in an order for some Vitamin Qs to act as DC blocking caps on the diyMod 5G. Once I get started during the Christmas break, I'll let you guys know how it went.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just put in an order for some Vitamin Qs to act as DC blocking caps on the diyMod 5G. Once I get started during the Christmas break, I'll let you guys know how it went._

 

Sweet joneeboi, that sounds sick! For sure let us know...!


----------



## joneeboi

I've mentioned these in separate threads, but my diyMod 4G's hard drive died plus my partsconneXion order came in today. On the sadder note, it was fun while it lasted. My friend is slated to give me another 4G click wheel, which should be an exciting piece with which to replace the original legend. I may purchase an iPod video sometime, as I've finally decided that it's the best player for me, bringing me to my next point. I got the Black Gates in today, so I will definitely try to get that out of the way on the diyMod 5G I have on hand before I go to bed tonight. It'll be tough to do it that quickly, but I'll give it a good pre-burn-in listening beforehand to help BG- and diyMod-newbies with understanding the effect of the BGs' burn-in on the sound. Stay tuned!


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## CAvanessia

Sounds good, joneeboi. My nano came in. It's much smaller than I remembered.

 What gauge wire have you guys been using? 30?


----------



## jERiCOh

Yes. I used some Kynar 30 awg silver plated and Cardas quad eutectic silver solder. Still waiting for the caps and ipod connectors. I hope I'll get everything before the holidays.


----------



## iQEM

time for me to buy the parts for doing this...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BG caps, wires, and so on...


----------



## wgr73

vvs_75, by chance could you post more pictures of your 4G photo mod? I acquired a 4G photo and am definitely going to mod it...


----------



## joneeboi

I posted it in the original post if you need a jump start


----------



## wgr73

Thats true, I just looked at that...thanks.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds good, joneeboi. My nano came in. It's much smaller than I remembered.

 What gauge wire have you guys been using? 30?_

 

I used 32AWG, except somehow it still doesn't fit quite snugly in the diyMod 5G. I wouldn't recommend this size unless you have matching wire stripper. I don't know what I was thinking when I bought this, as my wire stripper only goes down to 26AWG.


----------



## CAvanessia

holy crap. i opened my nano today and i'm speechless. the parts are UNBELIEVABLY small. I don't think I have the skill to solder the pins to get a dock-connector working and the equipment. I think i might need to drill just to avoid that.

 I might just run to radioshack nearby to get some 30 gauge wires and crappy capacitors just to see if I can do it before my other parts come =p


----------



## joneeboi

Soldering to the dock pins can be very intimidating. I smudged a lot of solder around on my 4G and 5G, but eventually I got it. You just need to take your time and settle your hands down as you work on your iPod. Make sure you secure the iPod while you're at it, cause you don't want to be working with a shaky board with such high stakes. Add a bit of solder to the tip of your gun, heat both ends of the inductors, and just keep alternating. Watch some of Tangent's tutorials on desoldering components.


----------



## wgr73

Use flux too CAvanessia, that really helps with solder direction. Apply it to the component you want to solder, and it will "suck up" the solder!


----------



## CAvanessia

thanks for the support everyone! the dock pins (on my 1g nano) aren't labeled the same as the pictures from this thread (from the classic ipods). all i see is C75L13 and other similar notations around the dock pins. No L2, L3, etc.

 Also directly below those pins towards the actual dock, it is too tight for me to get my soldering tip to the joint. In dock picture on the front page of this thread, the "space" i'm talking about is exactly where the hand-drawn green line kinks. It's right below the inductors. I'm afraid that when I put my soldering iron close to them, it will touch the neighboring parts.

 My camera can't even get any macro shots, so I can't show you guys what I'm talking about. Any advice is appreciated. I think I will try the direct method first.


----------



## joneeboi

The way I found which pads to solder to was by hooking up a line out cable to the dock and using the ohmmeter function of a multimeter. If you touch one lead to either the left or right channel and use the other lead to make educated guesses about the location of the pins on the logic board, you'll find the right pads faster 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You'll know when you find the right one when the ohmmeter gives you 0 ohms, meaning there's a short circuit, or direct signal path, between the two leads.

 I haven't ventured into this territory, so you're going to have to pick up some of the slack, Christine.

 Be careful with the use of flux on the board. If you put too much, things will get messy. I don't think electrically anything will go wrong, but there will be a sticky paste that remains until you decide you should have cleaned it in the first place and go back in to wash it out.

 And so far, two of us have forgotten to ground the stereo jack coming straight from the chip. If you want to pigtail it, ground it.


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The way I found which pads to solder to was by hooking up a line out cable to the dock and using the ohmmeter function of a multimeter. If you touch one lead to either the left or right channel and use the other lead to make educated guesses about the location of the pins on the logic board, you'll find the right pads faster 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll know when you find the right one when the ohmmeter gives you 0 ohms, meaning there's a short circuit, or direct signal path, between the two leads.

 I haven't ventured into this territory, so you're going to have to pick up some of the slack, Christine.

 Be careful with the use of flux on the board. If you put too much, things will get messy. I don't think electrically anything will go wrong, but there will be a sticky paste that remains until you decide you should have cleaned it in the first place and go back in to wash it out.

 And so far, two of us have forgotten to ground the stereo jack coming straight from the chip. If you want to pigtail it, ground it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, you're right. I actually have a DIY LOD around, so I should definitely do that.

 For now, I think my 1g Nano diyMod is working! I soldered two wires to the C54/C54 spots and put cheapo Radioshack 10uf capacitors on them. I also used a cheap radioshack male 3.5mm plug. The ground cable is soldered to the headphone ground that I found using my multimeter. 

 From the pic you can see that I used extremely long wires, and the capacitors/wires are all over my table.

 No real impressions yet as I've never heard the nano. Also, it only has the previous owner's songs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, there was one song that I swear the singer was right next to me! I swear I heard her licking her lips or something. lol.


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_vvs_75, by chance could you post more pictures of your 4G photo mod? I acquired a 4G photo and am definitely going to mod it..._

 








 Use as soft wires as you can find. If you don't like my "bridge" method then secure wires with pads with a glue otherwise you will brake off the pads!

 Also I got my nano today, so my version of the 1gen nano mod with films caps coming soon.

 I just hope to see that with each generation our mods will improve toward more prof. level.


----------



## fatman711

Since i'll be reservicing a nano, I might as well try this one on my own. 

 I'm looking on partsconnexion and don't get which caps to buy

 There are 4 different blackgates 

 NX-Hi-Q 0.1uf, 0.47uf...both rated at 50v

 or 

 Nx-Hi-Q 22uf or 47uf...both rated at 6.3v


 also, what type of wire should I use to hook up the caps?

 I have some 24gauge navship stranded SPC...would that work?

 I'm so noob with this stuff....no one has figured out how to do an internal nano mod without the external case have they?

 thanks


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatman711* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since i'll be reservicing a nano, I might as well try this one on my own. 

 I'm looking on partsconnexion and don't get which caps to buy

 There are 4 different blackgates 

 NX-Hi-Q 0.1uf, 0.47uf...both rated at 50v

 or 

 Nx-Hi-Q 22uf or 47uf...both rated at 6.3v


 also, what type of wire should I use to hook up the caps?

 I have some 24gauge navship stranded SPC...would that work?

 I'm so noob with this stuff....no one has figured out how to do an internal nano mod without the external case have they?

 thanks_

 


 Try to find some 30AWG wires and Nx-Hi-Q 47uf.. 6.3v you need.

 You can solder wires directly from the caps pads to the dock pins and you put Nx-Hi-Q 22uf.. 6.3v caps in to the dock to mini connector plug like ALO did.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatman711* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since i'll be reservicing a nano, I might as well try this one on my own. 

 I'm looking on partsconnexion and don't get which caps to buy

 There are 4 different blackgates 

 NX-Hi-Q 0.1uf, 0.47uf...both rated at 50v

 or 

 Nx-Hi-Q 22uf or 47uf...both rated at 6.3v


 also, what type of wire should I use to hook up the caps?

 I have some 24gauge navship stranded SPC...would that work?

 I'm so noob with this stuff....no one has figured out how to do an internal nano mod without the external case have they?

 thanks_

 

"Nx-Hi-Q 22uf or 47uf...both rated at 6.3v" are the right one...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 my teori (thx to all brilliant person like joneeboi, wgr73, ishtob & vvs_75) i can just route the wires like jERiCOh did *HERE*, then put the BG caps inside the dock connector line-out to mini...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try to find some 30AWG wires and Nx-Hi-Q 47uf.. 6.3v you need.

 You can solder wires directly from the caps pads to the dock pins and you put Nx-Hi-Q 22uf.. 6.3v caps in to the dock to mini connector plug like ALO did._

 

aha, just i like what i've take from this thread...but what the uses of 30AWG wires for ? is it for wires from lineout dock to mini connector ?


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Nx-Hi-Q 22uf or 47uf...both rated at 6.3v" are the right one...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 my teori (thx to all brilliant person like joneeboi, wgr73, ishtob & vvs_75) i can just route the wires like jERiCOh did *HERE*, then put the BG caps inside the dock connector line-out to mini...



 aha, just i like what i've take from this thread...but what the uses of 30AWG wires for ? is it for wires from lineout dock to mini connector ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

As far as I understood he asked which wire to use for internal soldering between dac chip and dock connector.


----------



## wgr73

Thanks vvs! 

 I'm getting a friends 5G today too! He let me have it (he said he doesn't use it!). So I want to mod that too! I'm not sure if yo guys want pics, if so I'll take some. And I'll probably route the wires like jericoh did....we'll see.


----------



## jamess71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks vvs! 

 I'm getting a friends 5G today too! He let me have it (he said he doesn't use it!). So I want to mod that too! I'm not sure if yo guys want pics, if so I'll take some. And I'll probably route the wires like jericoh did....we'll see._

 

I wan't pics of the 5G. Please..... 

 James


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I understood he asked which wire to use for internal soldering between dac chip and dock connector._

 

sorry my mistake then...


----------



## Austin 3:16

If only I didn't suck at soldering....


----------



## ruZZ.il

mmmm I think I'll do my nano fisrt gen soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 joneeboi, kudos!.. anyway, wanted to ask if anyone's considered using say pins 17 and 24 which seem to be unused, and stashing the caps inside the dock connector? this would basically avoid the possibility of using the wrong dock or what not.. is there access to these pins? could even use the video pins if they're accessible? cut traces, etc.. hm.. anyone?


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mmmm I think I'll do my nano fisrt gen soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 joneeboi, kudos!.. anyway, wanted to ask if anyone's considered using say pins 17 and 24 which seem to be unused, and stashing the caps inside the dock connector? this would basically avoid the possibility of using the wrong dock or what not.. is there access to these pins? could even use the video pins if they're accessible? cut traces, etc.. hm.. anyone?_

 

That's what I wanted to do or just use the existing line-out pins. You can read the previous page on joneeboi's explanation on how to find these pins. Basically plug in a dock (from qables or wherever) and find the resistance between the pins from the dock and guessed locations on the nano itself.


----------



## joneeboi

Wow, a lot of great stuff happening in the world of the diyMod!

 I'll try to address everyone's issues one at a time.

 CAvanessia:

 It's good to see you got it working. I know the surprise you get when you hear the performer's breath. I listened to a violin concerto with KSC75s plugged straight into the DAC and you could hear him puffing and heaving. It was startling at first.

 If you could take pictures of the dock pins, that would really help us figure out if a nano lineout is possible or how hard it would be to pull it off. If I hadn't been so lazy and uninventive the first time around with my diyMod, I could have actually routed the signal to the dock and avoid the whole rocket pack fad I seem to have started. It worked with the 4G and 5G, it might work for the nano!

 Also, what kind of caps were you thinking of using once you got tired of the RatShacks? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 vvs_75:

 What film caps did you decide on for your mod? I'm really missing my iPod nano at this moment, but I should be getting another 4G click wheel soon. Please share with the rest of us your experiences and, most importantly, your photos 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 fatman711:

 The 0.1uf, 0.47uf at 50V caps have the right voltage rating but are physically larger than the 6.3V set. The DC offset I measured was 1.5V, so 6.3V is more than appropriate for our application here. As for capacitance rating, I don't think that matters much besides the lower corner frequency, but as we've seen already, it won't make that big a difference between 22uF and 47uF paired with most amps.

 iQEM:

 How's your diyMod nano coming along? I haven't touched my Black Gates yet because I don't want to mess up this final, so I'm very anxious to open up my partsconneXion box. My other iPod dock connectors haven't arrived from Ridax yet, but I still have plenty of other things to work on over this Christmas break. I'll post pictures of how I did the diyMod dock, if you want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Austin 3:16:

 Which iPod do you have? If you're willing to pay the price for parts and shipping I could pull off the mod for you. If I made any money, I'd have to become a Member of the Trade, something I'm not sure I'll do. We'll see. If you have any questions and are willing to take a $300 hit for a ~$300 savings, we're here for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ruZZ.il:

 As you probably already know, there are few hard and fast rules in the DIY realm, so you can try it that way if you like. But before you do that, consider that you'll be sure to let everyone know that your iPod is special and that they shouldn't just stick whatever docks they want wherever they want. I've found that even with my limited soldering experience and skill, I could still desolder the inductors lying just before the 4G's and 5G's dock audio pins. I'm sure you could do it as well. Nevertheless, we haven't had a successful internal diyMod nano 1G pulled off yet (that I know of), so I couldn't speak for you in that regard. I double checked and this website says that pin 24 is used for Firewire. I'm sure you meant pin 7 and 14, which are both not listed and, I assume, are unused. You could do it that way, but I wonder if Apple would put solder pads on the board for pins they weren't going to use anyway. You could just bite the bullet and desolder the inductors for pins 3 and 4, and then your nano would be compatible with ALO docks around world (think comparisons at meets). I prefer the latter way, but it's a free world, isn't it? You're free to do what you think is best.

 [wgr73:

 A picture tells a thousand words. More photos will be invaluable to the frightened and uncertain DIYer, so that would be awesome if you could help us out with that.]

 Keep up the great work, team. I'm excited to see so many of us being so adventurous with our precious players. Perhaps I will set up a dedicated web site to support this mod. That original post is getting mighty long.


----------



## CAvanessia

joneeboi,

 I have a variety of BG caps coming from partsconnexion. 0.47uf, 22uf, 47 uf, and 220uf. =) Most likely I will just pick the 220uf pair if I decide to do an external pigtail or box mod. The smaller ones will be for the dock.

 I will take pictures of the dock pins tonight. My camera's macro mode is not focusing at all. My multimeter has a function where it beeps whenever it detects a direct path (my best way to describe it). The left and right channel seem to be in the path of 2 of the dock pins each in the ipod. I can provide pictures and more testing when I get back tonight.

 Has anyone thought about replacing the battery in the ipod nanos to a smaller battery to make room for the caps? It's li-ion 3.7v 340mAh battery. Assuming the entire depth of the battery compartment can fit some caps of course.

 I'll do some digging around.


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## KoKoKrunch

Hey I was wondering if you knew how to do a 4G click wheel mod, which wires from the DAC to the dock line out instead of headphone out, because most of my interconnects have the dock attached.


----------



## joneeboi

Here are the wires from the DAC. [The left one is left, the right one is right. Looking at it the proper way would put the top pad as the right channel, and the bottom one the left. I hope that doesn't confuse you.]






 I can provide pictures of the dock tonight. You can fiddle around inside and see for yourself, but there shouldn't be a problem with me uploading some tonight.


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## KoKoKrunch

Yeah, I've seen that one, but I'm thinking of wiring it to the docking out, which we use to charge our iPod, not the headphone 3.5mm out. So I was wondering if you've done anything like that? If not, I'll just do the one using headphone out.


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## joneeboi

I did what I could. The pads are right next to each other this time as opposed to in the 5G. L2 and L3 are the intended destinations. It's probably not as helpful if the wiring isn't colour coded.






 The left channel of the DAC goes to L3, and the right channel goes to L2. There's another wire shorting L4 since I accidentally removed it.


----------



## fatman711

hey Jon,
 so you're telling me to get the 6.3v blackgates right?

 Making an order now! How expensive is partsconnexion shipping? Might pick up a hakko 936 too. 

 Also what hook up wire to get? Radio shack? 

 What soldering iron are you guys using? 

 thanks


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## KoKoKrunch

Thanks a whole bunch Jon, I'll get my dad to look at it and gimme some advice.

 Edit: I just opened my iPod... the components are crazily tiny. 
 Edit 2: Hurray, my dad just showed me his soldering skills, and it seems he's gonna nail it easy as cake, hehe.


----------



## joneeboi

>so you're telling me to get the 6.3v blackgates right?

 Yes.

 >Making an order now! How expensive is partsconnexion shipping?

 Mine was about $15 and it arrived in 3 business days. Order quickly, they close on the 21st and don't ship anything until the new year!

 >Also what hook up wire to get? Radio shack?
 Anything small. 30AWG, 28AWG, anything you fancy.

 >What soldering iron are you guys using? 

 Weller WLC100, but I don't know if that matters. I probably should pick up some new tips, something finer than the stock. Hakko 936 sounds good though.


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## CAvanessia

Here is a picture of the dock pins on my nano. This is the best picture I can get. The magenta lines are where I found paths when testing the pins with my LOD. I will research more into how to decipher which is which.

 For the people who have never seen the internals of the nano, the "Z" caps C53/C54 are on the backside of the upper-half of the nano. So I led the wires through a crack near the battery to get the wires onto this side of the nano (relative to the picture). It's quite trivial to route the wires to the pins shown in the picture without upsetting anything.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM:

 How's your diyMod nano coming along? I haven't touched my Black Gates yet because I don't want to mess up this final, so I'm very anxious to open up my partsconneXion box. My other iPod dock connectors haven't arrived from Ridax yet, but I still have plenty of other things to work on over this Christmas break. I'll post pictures of how I did the diyMod dock, if you want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

huehehehee, not having any progress at all...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i must have buy the caps, wires & some parts for making dock to mini coneector first before i workout the DIYmod nano...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what's partsconneXion box used for ? i'll wait for the pictures of your DIYmod dock...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_joneeboi,
 Has anyone thought about replacing the battery in the ipod nanos to a smaller battery to make room for the caps? It's li-ion 3.7v 340mAh battery. Assuming the entire depth of the battery compartment can fit some caps of course.

 I'll do some digging around._

 

great idea...what ?! only 340mAh battery on Nano ? no wonder they dont last for good...are any higher capacity battery for nano 1st GEN ? sorry kinda out of topic...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edit 2: Hurray, my dad just showed me his soldering skills, and it seems he's gonna nail it easy as cake, hehe. _

 

what an lucky one...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a picture of the dock pins on my nano. This is the best picture I can get. The magenta lines are where I found paths when testing the pins with my LOD. I will research more into how to decipher which is which.

 For the people who have never seen the internals of the nano, the "Z" caps C53/C54 are on the backside of the upper-half of the nano. So I led the wires through a crack near the battery to get the wires onto this side of the nano (relative to the picture). It's quite trivial to route the wires to the pins shown in the picture without upsetting anything.



_

 

useful pict...thx !


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_vvs_75:

 What film caps did you decide on for your mod? I'm really missing my iPod nano at this moment, but I should be getting another 4G click wheel soon. Please share with the rest of us your experiences and, most importantly, your photos 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

I am taking pics through out the process and post them ASAP.


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatman711* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey Jon,
 so you're telling me to get the 6.3v blackgates right?

 Making an order now! How expensive is partsconnexion shipping? Might pick up a hakko 936 too. 

 Also what hook up wire to get? Radio shack? 

 What soldering iron are you guys using? 

 thanks_

 

If you in Canada then partsconnexion should be cheaper. 

 I bought mine from Michael Percy Audio Ordering Information 

 it was under $10 within US


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Hey would you guys recommend the 22uF or 47 uF capacitor?


----------



## bobby001

need also to sold some resistors with each caps or just the caps are enough ?

 Red Wine use 47uF


----------



## ruZZ.il

good thing I got some BGs in my stash bin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I was planning on building another alien dac with them. It'll have to wait  I'm enjoying the ESs in my alien dac now anyway. Nice over the silmics. Will open my nano next week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Also, the BGs fit really nicely in the dock connector.. I think I'm just going to bypass the current line out.

 bobby: The caps alone are fine. you can always make a little cable with resistors in if you want to smooth things out, or to marginally improve bass on very low impedance cans.. but so marginally, so..


----------



## iQEM

sorry, but how to route ground wires ? i kind of miss this step...thx !


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry, but how to route ground wires ? i kind of miss this step...thx ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I believe there's no need for ground wires o_0?


----------



## iQEM

no need ? really ?! then i off to go...


----------



## joneeboi

There's no need for ground wires inside the iPod but you will need the ground wires in your pigtail/dock connector.


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no need ? really ?! then i off to go...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You need ground wires. I did not ground at first which resulted in a weird noise in the music. Look at my pic of the dock pins. The red wire is soldered to what I believe is the headphone jack groubd.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You need ground wires. I did not ground at first which resulted in a weird noise in the music. Look at my pic of the dock pins. The red wire is soldered to what I believe is the headphone jack groubd._

 

Victim number 3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also forgot to mention that my last final turned out much better than I expected, so eventually I'll get around to updating a whole bunch of stuff I've been meaning to. The Vitamin Qs haven't arrived yet, but a whole whack of other stuff I purchased before the holiday shutdown got in over the week. I'm excited to fire up the iron again. That'll probably be my Friday afternoon.

 What amp are you planning on using your diyMod nano with, CAvanessia?


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's no need for ground wires inside the iPod *but you will need the ground wires in your pigtail/dock connector (HP jack in CAvanessia's case).*_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You need ground wires. I did not ground at first which resulted in a weird noise in the music. Look at my pic of the dock pins. *The red wire is soldered to what I believe is the headphone jack groubd.*_

 

CAvanessia, this is what you did. It does kinda get confusing!


----------



## wgr73

Jon, I have a zune apart now (I guess it is a bit off topic), and im debating on whether or not to attempt it?!? It uses the same DAC as the ipod 5G. hmmmmm


----------



## iQEM

from this one ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 now i'm confused...


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_from this one ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 now i'm confused...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, the red wire (going to the new headphone ground) is grounded to the ipods headphone-jack ground.


----------



## iQEM

so how did i do that if i plan to using dock connector ? which pin should i use to ground ? base on Apple iPod dock interface pinout and signals @ pinouts.ru should i use pin 1 or 2 ?


----------



## wgr73

You would use pin 2.


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, the red wire (going to the new headphone ground) is grounded to the ipods headphone-jack ground._

 

I'm sorry my picture was confusing! What was confusing about it?

 I think I understand why you're confused. In the current picture, I am NOT doing the dock-connector method. That's why I'm grounding at that spot. If you're doing the dock-connector method, you can just ground on pin 2 like wgr73 mentioned, not at where I grounded since that would be redundant.

 My "temporary" setup just has 2 caps soldered to the 2 signal wires which goes to a 3.5mm plug. The ground from the plug is the RED wire in my pic. The spot in the pic is the headphone ground (from the nano's built-in headphone jack).

 Hope that clears something up.

  Quote:


 What amp are you planning on using your diyMod nano with, CAvanessia? 
 

I'm currently using a Meier Porta Corda. I wish Xin had better delivery times. With my current setup, I don't notice a HUGE difference in sound quality. I hope it's because of the caps or the bitrate of my music.

 Be glad that finals are over! Over at my Uni, we only have one week for finals. =P I'm anxiously waiting for my grades.


----------



## wgr73

Hey, I wasnt saying your pic was confusing....just this whole modding deal. There are so many ways one could do the mod that it gets confusing! Anyone confused?


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, I wasnt saying your pic was confusing....just this whole modding deal. There are so many ways one could do the mod that it gets confusing! Anyone confused? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

*raises hand*

 Oops - I think i mis-quoted. I was going to quote iQEM. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The last bit of the puzzle is to find out which dock pins are the right ones to use on the nano. I think my multimeter probes are too fat. I'm going to run over to Radioshack to get some better ones before I test again.


----------



## wgr73

No problem! Yeah let us know what you find out.


----------



## joneeboi

wgr73, if you would be so generous as to attempt the...ZuMod, we may actually find a way to not only have a great-sounding player, but also a way to have a true line out for the Zune! As I'm sure most Zune players are disappointed with the same sonics but crippled dock line out, a ZuMod is exactly what "The Social" is in need of. I could try and steal my friend's player, but I'm not sure how that would go down. Zunes are going so cheap everywhere that maybe I ought to pick one up. I just threw some Black Gates into my Millett Hybrid MAX and I just picked up my Digikey package from Purolator today ($8 shipping, 3 business day waiting time, no pickup charge? Am I dreaming?), so I still have some things to recover from financially. If you could spearhead this, I would greatly appreciate it. Good luck on the mod! I really need to get a move on this website then, don't I?

 iQEM:

 If you want to use the dock connector, you don't need to solder anything to ground inside the iPod. All that's required is a pair of wires from the DAC to the dock. The grounding happens inside your LOD, so you don't need to worry about grounding.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You would use pin 2._

 

Pins 1 and 2 are the same, so you can use either one. I would go with pin 1 because it's farther away from pins 3 and 4, your audio pins. This way it's just that extra bit safer.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Hey guys just a quick question. Do I have to pluck out the capacitors which I'm soldering to?


----------



## mnamo

Thak you all for this! I'm going to make my own auricap fidelity dock for my 5g ipod. But I'm little confused about connecting caps with pins in the dock and RCA out's. I think I should connent one end of the auricap to pin #3 and another end of that same cap to the right RCA out pin.The same with another cap and pin#4 just this time I'm connecting another end to the left RCA out.Now what about ground? Should I solder two wires to the pin#2 in the dock and connect them with ground pins on both left and right RCA out's?Also what about all the other pins in the dock, should I just left them untouched. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*raises hand*

 Oops - I think i mis-quoted. I was going to quote iQEM. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The last bit of the puzzle is to find out which dock pins are the right ones to use on the nano. I think my multimeter probes are too fat. I'm going to run over to Radioshack to get some better ones before I test again._

 

i see, now it's more clear to me...OK, until you find out what should be ground i just want to say all my needs are here with me and i'm ready to make a progress now...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 wish me luck !

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM:

 If you want to use the dock connector, you don't need to solder anything to ground inside the iPod. All that's required is a pair of wires from the DAC to the dock. The grounding happens inside your LOD, so you don't need to worry about grounding._

 

then i'm gonna do it right now, do i need a multitester to doing this ? how do i know which part of caps that i should solder to ? there are two feet out from caps (i use 22uF BG 6,3v), the other one are taller than the rest...which one are (+) and which are (-) ?! (sorry for my bad english, cos english are not my native language anyway...) thx before...


----------



## KoKoKrunch

iQEM, the capacitor you are using is non-polar. No + or -. Work either way. (I 99% suppose)


----------



## mnamo

What if I someone has polarized caps? Because that might be my problem.


----------



## ruZZ.il

The Positive (long leg) would go to the source (ipod), whilst the other straight to the output.
 iQEM: The BG NXs are non-polar just as KoKo mentioned, so it really wouldn't matter which way you put it (even though there is a long/short leg.. it doesn't matter..).


----------



## mnamo

Ok thanks . Anybody who want's to follow up on my previous questions about how to connect the dock pins?


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM, the capacitor you are using is non-polar. No + or -. Work either way. (I 99% suppose)_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Positive (long leg) would go to the source (ipod), whilst the other straight to the output.
 iQEM: The BG NXs are non-polar just as KoKo mentioned, so it really wouldn't matter which way you put it (even though there is a long/short leg.. it doesn't matter..)._

 

thx for the input tips guys, now i'll make the dock connector with caps inside right away...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now what pin should i use on the dock connector to put the caps ?

 25 Line In - Left
 26 Line In - Right
 27 Line Out - Left
 28 Line Out - Right


----------



## iQEM

i wanna make it like in this pict:




 Credit by warrior05

 it's look like it use 27 and 28 ? am i wrong ?


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pins 1 and 2 are the same, so you can use either one. I would go with pin 1 because it's farther away from pins 3 and 4, your audio pins. This way it's just that extra bit safer._

 

Good point! I've always used 2 for some odd reason


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i wanna make it like in this pict:




 Credit by warrior05

 it's look like it use 27 and 28 ? am i wrong ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, you are wrong
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can tell by the grooves in the dock connector by looking at it, it should be facing down (pin 1 is on the far left when facing down)...so the pins that are used are pins 1 or 2 for ground, 3 for right, and 4 for left! 27 and 28 you dont need to worry about!


----------



## iQEM

3 & 4 ? damn, that's was close...but after i figure out i broken the dock connector (an $5 charger, what a waste 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), now what should i do ? any other alternative ? like using headphone out route ?


----------



## jamess71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good point! I've always used 2 for some odd reason
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 



 Me too......


----------



## jamess71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3 & 4 ? damn, that's was close...but after i figure out i broken the dock connector (an $5 charger, what a waste 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), now what should i do ? any other alternative ? like using headphone out route ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 What did you do to the connector? you can replace pins in them if thats the problem. Just pull out the damaged ones and pull out a good one and slide it into the desired pin slot to replace. It might take a few trys but you have lots of pins you won't use.


----------



## iQEM

yeah, that what i do before...now 1 of the pins are broken, silly but it's an cheap dock charger that ONLY had 2 pins...i'm looking at my old "not cheap" charger ($18, wow!) and it's have 30 pins...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this one not even an genuine but so closed to it...and, i have a dock to USB cabledata (not genuine too, only $5) that had 4 pins...what should i pick ? and how many pins does it need to use for cabledata ? i dont have the genuine cabledata, it's had been lost by my sister...so, i do need cabledata but need the charger as well...any ideas ? if i cut the cable data one, i could took out 2 pins and put it on my broken pins dock...am i wrong ?


----------



## wgr73

iQEM, you could cut the data one if you want but you may have a hard time putting it back together...its up to you.


----------



## iQEM

but i really need it for input songs to my ipod, never mind...i found out WHY dock with a broken pins only had 2 pins, so i think the charger it self only need few pins to charge an ipod...

 so i'm gonna disassemble the "non cheap" charger and get 2-3 pins out for the broken pins dock and put the charger assemble again without messing with any wires in it...is it a good idea ?


----------



## jamess71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but i really need it for input songs to my ipod, never mind...i found out WHY dock with a broken pins only had 2 pins, so i think the charger it self only need few pins to charge an ipod...

 so i'm gonna disassemble the "non cheap" charger and get 2-3 pins out for the broken pins dock and put the charger assemble again without messing with any wires in it...is it a good idea ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I could work but you may also ruin the good one. 

 Check out Quables.com you can buy dock connectors for less than $2 a piece. They also have a 10 pack that $10.71 you can;t beat that and you'll also have a lot more to play with.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamess71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could work but you may also ruin the good one. 

 Check out Quables.com you can buy dock connectors for less than $2 a piece. They also have a 10 pack that $10.71 you can;t beat that and you'll also have a lot more to play with._

 

well, i already dissambled the non cheap charger too but i change my mind and assemble em right away (no scracth at all, lucky me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )...i find the answer WHY it had 30 pins, it used a PCB to put all the pins into it, so forget about it cos my BG caps not gonna fit those dock either...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i guess i had to dissamble the non genuine cabledata and set the pins to 3 & 4...well i'm must buy new $5 cabledata for my ipod again...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sorry james, it's gonna be along long waiting time for getting dock connector @Quables ship to indonesia...and i bet it's gonna increase the whole costs (not only $2 or 10 pack $10.71 anymore) cause shipping costs to indo are expensives...


----------



## iQEM

somebody please teach me how to make dock to RCA interconnect...i'm 25% in progress now...


----------



## wgr73

Check THIS thread for the wiring of an RCA cable...don't forget that pin 1 on the dock is ground, pin 3 is right, and 4 is left. Thats how easy it is!


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mnamo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok thanks . Anybody who want's to follow up on my previous questions about how to connect the dock pins?_

 

IMO i think you have the right idea. both grounds from the rcas to the pin 2 in the dock. 

 i'm not an expert though =)


----------



## iQEM

CAvanessia please guide me, which one are R and which are L, on the dock route (show purple) ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 progress 50%...


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 CAvanessia please guide me, which one are R and which are L, on the dock route (show purple) ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 progress 50%...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm not sure. I wish I knew.

 I used a multimeter to test which is R and which is L, but I could not figure it out. For some reason, I found that the magenta (purple) lines BOTH have a direct path to left channel. BOTH have direct path to RIGHT channel.

 Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I'm waiting for my help as we speak (cough cough joneeboi). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure we'll figure it out soon.

 I can do testing if anyone can direct me.


----------



## wgr73

Question to Jon or JeriCho....once I get the wires soldered straight to the dock on my 5G, is there a way I can test the dock without the caps? Will I mess up anything? Cause I have a DIY 'normal' ipod dock....


----------



## wgr73

Lol, I guess you can still answer my question...my caps just came UPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## joneeboi

So much to say...

 iQEM:
 Forget trying to convert your USB cable or Firewire into a diyMod dock. Get the iPod dock from Qables or Ridax. Otherwise you're wasting your time and perfectly good cables. The BGs should be able to fit into the iPod male dock connector that comes with 30 pins. You just have to remove some of the pins and it should fit perfectly well. I'll post pictures later of what I have so far with my dock.

 wgr73:

 As long as you don't want to damage your headphones, you can test the dock without the caps. If your amp has DC blocking caps at the input, then it'll be alright. If you don't, then before you plug in your headphones into your amp, measure the DC offset by putting the black lead at iPod's ground and the red lead at the right channel of your amp's out. Typically anything under 20mV DC offset is okay, but anything bigger you should beware of. Preferably you don't want any offset. In any case, your caps seem to have arrived, so it shouldn't be a problem. Just try to not damage anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 CAvanessia:

 I wonder if you're doing the measurements properly. It sounds more like you're measuring ground to ground, which would explain why both the "left and right channels" measure directly to the same point. Try it again. Set the multimeter to the ohmmeter function. Hold one lead first to the left channel, and make sure it isn't touching the ground. Then wipe the other lead across the row of inductors. When it reads zero ohms, you have the direct path.

 Again, I can't imagine both channels leading to separate pads except that you're actually measuring ground. I figure the proper pads would be on the left side of the iPod, looking at the face of the iPod, or the right side of the image. Man, I wish I had a nano in front of me. Try it, let me know how it goes.


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if you're doing the measurements properly. It sounds more like you're measuring ground to ground, which would explain why both the "left and right channels" measure directly to the same point. Try it again. Set the multimeter to the ohmmeter function. Hold one lead first to the left channel, and make sure it isn't touching the ground. Then wipe the other lead across the row of inductors. When it reads zero ohms, you have the direct path.

 Again, I can't imagine both channels leading to separate pads except that you're actually measuring ground. I figure the proper pads would be on the left side of the iPod, looking at the face of the iPod, or the right side of the image. Man, I wish I had a nano in front of me. Try it, let me know how it goes._

 

I think I have made some progress. I will update with pictures and my theory on what went wrong soon. =)


----------



## wgr73

Guys, I now have a 5G diyMod!!!! I wired just like jericoh, and was only getting sound out of the left ear...well it was because I had the lineout inductors shorted by accident. I fixed that and all was well! The dock worked on the first try! Heres the dock...





 Next, the diyMod...













 This thing sounds alot better than my diyNano...it has to be because im using BG caps. The bass is deep, and there is alot more soundstage. I'm listening to it right now with my 595's in my sig. This is crazy good! Once again, thanks to Jon (joneeboi), vvs, and jericoh...all you guys who helped. I hope you like the pics.


----------



## joneeboi

That's great, wgr73, thanks for sharing that. Enjoy it, man.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

I'm done with mine as well!













 Managed to get the caps inside, however the left side of my dock is blocked and there is no clip when I push my interconnect for my amp in except for the right side. Spent really long time experimenting where to fit the caps with my dad.


----------



## wgr73

Sick dude! That looks like a clean install! How do you think it sounds?? I know you've got to be listening to it now!


----------



## CAvanessia

good job, wgr73 and kokokrunch!

 Here are the results on the nano. I took the tip of a spare ipod dock (from qables) out of its housing, and only left ONE pin to test/trace the signal.

 Using the ohmmeter function, I have traced it down to the colored areas in the picture attached below. I found two spots with 0 ohm measurement PER channel. The two magenta (purple) have a direct path to the right channel. The yellow spots for the left channel.


----------



## wgr73

Nice find! This will help out future modders!


----------



## KoKoKrunch

How do I think it sounds... My ears aren't that discerning. For now, I could hear a great improvement in midrange from my computer though. Perhaps the iPod is already better in the first place. However, I can't really hear difference when connected to headphone out and dock line out with amp lol.


----------



## CAvanessia

Thanks. I'm not sure how to proceed from here. 

 Do I remove those four inductors and solder where the "L" and "R" lines begin? Or do I keep the smaller inductors and begin on the right side of "L" and "R" lines?


----------



## wgr73

If your sure that those are the correct components then unsolder the inductors and the c53/54 caps and make a bridge. Then solder the caps into the dock like I did! Look at jericohs bridge that he did and model it after that.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM:
 Forget trying to convert your USB cable or Firewire into a diyMod dock. Get the iPod dock from Qables or Ridax. Otherwise you're wasting your time and perfectly good cables. The BGs should be able to fit into the iPod male dock connector that comes with 30 pins. You just have to remove some of the pins and it should fit perfectly well. I'll post pictures later of what I have so far with my dock._

 

but it's gonna costs more plus wait dock to be ship to indo, i dont sure if it's a good idea though......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys, I now have a 5G diyMod!!!! I wired just like jericoh, and was only getting sound out of the left ear...well it was because I had the lineout inductors shorted by accident. I fixed that and all was well! The dock worked on the first try! Heres the dock...

 Next, the diyMod...

 This thing sounds alot better than my diyNano...it has to be because im using BG caps. The bass is deep, and there is alot more soundstage. I'm listening to it right now with my 595's in my sig. This is crazy good! Once again, thanks to Jon (joneeboi), vvs, and jericoh...all you guys who helped. I hope you like the pics._

 

why didn't you use BG caps too with your DIYmod nano ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
I'm done with mine as well!

 Managed to get the caps inside, however the left side of my dock is blocked and there is no clip when I push my interconnect for my amp in except for the right side. Spent really long time experimenting where to fit the caps with my dad.

 

Sick dude! That looks like a clean install! How do you think it sounds?? I know you've got to be listening to it now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

x2...i'm so jealous with you now, KoKoKrunch...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good job, wgr73 and kokokrunch!

 Here are the results on the nano. I took the tip of a spare ipod dock (from qables) out of its housing, and only left ONE pin to test/trace the signal.

 Using the ohmmeter function, I have traced it down to the colored areas in the picture attached below. I found two spots with 0 ohm measurement PER channel. The two magenta (purple) have a direct path to the right channel. The yellow spots for the left channel._

 

nice, i'll resolder my nano to your guide now CAvanessia...thx for sharing the pict...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do I think it sounds... My ears aren't that discerning. For now, I could hear a great improvement in midrange from my computer though. Perhaps the iPod is already better in the first place. However, I can't really hear difference when connected to headphone out and dock line out with amp lol._

 

lol but i'm still jealous on you still KoKoKrunch...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. I'm not sure how to proceed from here. 

 Do I remove those four inductors and solder where the "L" and "R" lines begin? Or do I keep the smaller inductors and begin on the right side of "L" and "R" lines?_

 

with what i remove those inductor ? it's too tiny...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If your sure that those are the correct components then unsolder the inductors and the c53/54 caps and make a bridge. Then solder the caps into the dock like I did! Look at jericohs bridge that he did and model it after that._

 

then i have to remove em before i do the bridge/route ?


----------



## joneeboi

iQEM:

 In the long run, it'll be better. You'll be glad you did a better job, plus you'll have both cables to work with, the LOD and the USB one. I don't know typical shipping costs, but Ridax didn't charge me more than $5 for shipping. Waiting is just a part of life that we all have to get used to. Plus, Ridax charges a flat rate of $5 for shipping. Try buying something and you'll just get charged for the standard $5. I believe Ridax is stationed in Sweden, so even from Sweden to Canada is really far too. I say wait and do it right. Nevertheless, it's up to you.

 CAvanessia:

 Before you remove the inductors, try taking the audio signal out of their solder pads to your headphone jack and see if it's the right one. In other words, let the signal pass through the regular amplification circuit to the inductors, and THEN take the signal to your headphone jack. That's just to test if it's the right place. If you already took out C53 and C54, then solder the wires from the DAC to the inductors, and then plug your capped LOD into your amp. Essentially, don't remove the inductors before you're sure that's the right place. These are two ways of testing for correctness.

 KoKoKrunch:

 That's really sick, man. Great work. I thought about using those spots for placing the caps too, but I didn't get them until after my iPod died. Way to push the envelope. Plus, the fact that your iPod is a U2 edition makes it all the classier. Great work!

 I hope you got your dad something REALLY special for Christmas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank him on behalf of Team diyMod.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Hehe, thanks. I was wondering what you guys think about the sound quality after modding?

 And crap, I forgot bout Christmas. Only remembered bout his Bday present which is about 2 weeks away. Argh.


----------



## wgr73

Koko, the sound is good.....great! I heard the BG caps actually sound better after break-in! Right now I am enjoying the crap out of this mod, It's great! I was gonna ask you, what kind of earphones are you using? If you can't tell the difference something isn't right whether its your earphones or your MP3 quality something isn't right.

 iQEM: I planned on putting the other pair of 22uF in the nano, if not I may get a 4G and mod it with those. The nano was just a test subject...I didn't even care for the looks of the thing. It still sounds great!


----------



## KoKoKrunch

I'm use Westone UM1. I am currently burning them in... They said it'll need 200+ hours before it reaches full potential. Crazy man, I'll have to take really long to reach 200 hours, cause I'm using dock line out, can't charge at the same time while burning in.


----------



## wgr73

Cool, those arent bad! I know, im in the same boat as you...im using the Line out too!


----------



## joneeboi

I'll try to summarize what's going on so far with the diyMods. Everything seems so scattered, I thought I'd try to bring it all together.

 These iPods can be diyModded: 3G, 4G, 5G, nano 1G, and mini (I have a broken one sitting next to me, and it's just as easy as before.)

 These are the different options you have with the diyMods.

 3G
 - caps inside iPod

 4G
 - line out through headphone jack
 - caps inside line out dock
 - caps inside iPod (thanks for that, KoKo)

 5G
 - caps inside line out dock

 nano 1G
 - line out through headphone jack
 - caps inside line out dock
 - caps inside iPod

 mini 1G
 - caps inside line out dock

 I think the ultimate goal for every diyMod is to have the caps inside the iPod but also to connect the signal through the dock. It'll be really tough with the 5G and nano 1G, but anything's possible, right? Keep at it, guys, with everyone's help we can make this the best iPod hack ever!


----------



## jERiCOh

You guys are lucky !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm still waiting for my stuff. BTW, nice job wgr73, I love your pics.


----------



## fatman711

Hey guys! Great work!

 So let me get this straight. For the 5g ipod videos, no modifications are done in the ipod? Just the dock? If that is the case, then why didn't RWA just do that then?


----------



## KoKoKrunch

You still need to wire from the chip straight to the dock inside the 5g ipod. But since there is no space for caps in the 5g ipod, they are put in the dock.


----------



## fatman711

so inside the 5g, all we need to do is connect a few wires and no caps? 

 Then in the LOD, we add the caps


----------



## joneeboi

True.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM: I planned on putting the other pair of 22uF in the nano, if not I may get a 4G and mod it with those. The nano was just a test subject...I didn't even care for the looks of the thing. It still sounds great!_

 

i c, well...i only had nano for now...so it's not just an test subject to me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll try to summarize what's going on so far with the diyMods. Everything seems so scattered, I thought I'd try to bring it all together.

 These iPods can be diyModded: 3G, 4G, 5G, nano 1G, and mini (I have a broken one sitting next to me, and it's just as easy as before.)

 These are the different options you have with the diyMods.

 3G
 - caps inside iPod

 4G
 - line out through headphone jack
 - caps inside line out dock
 - caps inside iPod (thanks for that, KoKo)

 5G
 - caps inside line out dock

 nano 1G
 - line out through headphone jack
 - caps inside line out dock
 - caps inside iPod

 mini 1G
 - caps inside line out dock

 I think the ultimate goal for every diyMod is to have the caps inside the iPod but also to connect the signal through the dock. It'll be really tough with the 5G and nano 1G, but anything's possible, right? Keep at it, guys, with everyone's help we can make this the best iPod hack ever!_

 

can anyone guide me how to make lineout through headphone jack too on Nano ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe i need em for alternative...


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Darn, you guys are making me want to get a nano for modding as well...


----------



## ishtob

go for it! they are pretty cheap on ebay these days since the fattys nano were released


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Crap... I'm starting to worry if something went wrong with my mod, which I doubt. There's no difference in sound when I compare headphone out vs my mod dock out


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Crap... I'm starting to worry if something went wrong with my mod, which I doubt. There's no difference in sound when I compare headphone out vs my mod dock out_

 

maybe you got the wrong route to dock line out ?


----------



## KoKoKrunch

That's not possible, the caps and resistors are all plucked out already, and there's still sound. Besides, if it was wrong, how could it still output stuff like nothing happened.


----------



## joneeboi

You have to give these things time, KoKo. With the way the brain works, it only notices when something in your environment is different. Think of your morning routine. You get up, do the same things you do every morning in the exact same order. You don't have to think very much and your brain doesn't process any of these things, ie. you don't have to think about sitting up, walking to the washroom, how to brush your teeth. Your brain writes it off as "the usual." Now when something different happens in your morning, such as when you wake up on the wrong side, your entire day is thrown off because of that little bit of information processing that happened in the morning. Now transfer that notion over to audio. When you listen to the same setup day in and day out, your brain starts noticing differences and slowly stops processing some of it, that is, it gets used to the way things are. Then when you introduce a new piece of equipment, say a new CD player, DAC and amp, your ears perk up and you go "Hey, something is different." Granted, you've been listening to the pre-diyMod iPod for some time. But if you go along with this theory, if you keep listening to the diyMod side of things for a sufficiently long period and switch back once your brain has settled into the diyMod version of your music, you ought to notice the distinction once you slip back into the headphone jack. If you read enough meet impressions threads, you read pretty often about how this listener wished they had more time with this piece of equipment, or the listening session wasn't long enough, or they want to take the piece home for a while for listening tests. To get an idea of the sound you have to wait a bit. Not to mention we have to wait for your Black Gates to open up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 These things require time, so you have to be patient. It's the collection of these little listening sessions that amounts to noticing a bigger difference when you change the setup. Repeat for a while; a month is minimally acceptable to me to get "true" comfort in the signature. 200 hours is a little less than 2 weeks of straight listening; what with charging and nobody listening that much to an iPod, you may take even more than a month. And on top of that, you have to get used to the sound once the BGs have filled in. Then you make the switch. At that point you will notice the difference.

 Hope that helps.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

I am wondering if the circuit actually goes to the headphone out at the same time as the dock line out, if it does, it might explain why I am hearing EXACTLY the same thing from dock out and headphone out when everyone is hearing the improvement. Because my headphone out is not disabled after the mod to dock line out. So I can plug AUX to the headphone jack, and plug the dock to the main one. Switching back and forth, there is zero change in the sound.


----------



## ruZZ.il

can you control the h.p out volume from your ipod?

 update on my mod:
 I didn't feel like waiting, so I dived in.. damn, the nano is nano in there. I've got some nice pics from behind the dock connector. I managed to solder a single strand from some thin multi-strand wire to the unused pins and rout it back to the dac output.. my ipod battery was dead at the time, so it took some time to figure things actually worked out.. soldering to those pins was a b1itch and a half though. I used little bits of teflon tubing glued to the board to guide the wire to the right pin and after multiple attempts at getting the right spot, and the right spot alone, with my crappy cheapo solder iron (I REALLY need a new one), I finally managed to get somewhere.. I thing. closing the thing up was almost as hard too.. and I slightly damaged the clickwheel cable plug, so I need to use something to hold the cable tight. I had to leave it for a while and will get back soon. meanwhile, everything is functional, I just hope the solder made good contact.. will get back with an update and pics soon..


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Yes I can...


----------



## iQEM

aha, i guess it suppose to be cannot be done...i mean if you doing the iMod way you HAVE to use a head-amp cos the volume would be too loud and cannot be control by clickwheel anymore, am i right ?


----------



## iQEM

check it out patiently now, look at this pict of yours...





 so, is it any wrong bridge that you've made ?


----------



## KoKoKrunch

But iMod uses headphone out. Line out already = no volume control. My headphone out is preserved. Even so, it should not affect anything.

 Jonee, do you see anything wrong with my bridges??? My DIY iPod mod endeavour - 10+ huge images - BAMod!
 There are more detailed pictures there. I'm feeling confused and a lil disappointed now, doubt there's anything wrong though...


----------



## wgr73

Thanks jericoh! Glad to see you liked the pictures!


----------



## vvs_75

I just finished my 1 gen nano mode. Comming very soon!


----------



## joneeboi

vvs_75:

 Sounds good, dude. What configuration did you go with? What's your take on CAvanessia's dock situation?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jonee, do you see anything wrong with my bridges??? My DIY iPod mod endeavour - 10+ huge images - BAMod!
 There are more detailed pictures there. I'm feeling confused and a lil disappointed now, doubt there's anything wrong though..._

 

Your (dad's?) work looks as fine as ever. If you feel disappointed with the mod, maybe you could just trade me iPods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously though, I think you just have to wait it out. The BGs haven't burned in yet, and you haven't gotten used to the sound signature yet. Give it time, and it'll come. If you still feel that way, I direct you to the numerous iMod impressions threads where people rave about this precise thing. Perhaps you can give us some insight as to why they love it so much and why you feel underwhelmed. Could it be the Bose effect? We'll see. Nevertheless, have faith in the Black Gates! Maybe you should start a thread in the Portable Audio section and ask why you don't feel as amorous with your diyMod as some are with their iMods.


----------



## ruZZ.il

Success 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is an iMod of a nano first gen. I bypassed the whole internal wiring and maintained all original functionality. I cleaned it up a lot since the pic of the inside (forgot to take another one..). Soldering the wires internally to the dock pins was really difficult, so I don't recommend anyone do this (naturally, some will anyway). as I mentioned before, I used a little bit of teflon tubing to duct the wire through and hold it in place. I used hot glue to keep them in place. I used some multistrand wire I had lying around. I cut most of the strand at the end, leaving just one. I put a little solder blob where I cut just to keep it all together. The single strand is about the width of the pins, and it took me many attempts to get this right (admittedly, I believe it would have been easier with a good iron). I had some issues with the wire sticking out at first, that effected the screen. I router the wires a little better than seen here and that was solved. I still have some internal pressure somewhere thats slightly effecting my clickwheel. I will probably open it again to smooth it out even more. I got good at mating the little cables back into their sockets, but this was a bi... at first. Sound? it sounds great! better? I can't tell yet. I'm waiting for the epoxy on the dock to dry and will give it more of a listen. BG burn in starts now (and I believe in it too, my MAX showed me their way). 

 Thank you to everyone who's contributed to this thread showing me the way.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Wow that's a really neat dock there. And well... I just hope there's nothing wrong with my mod. Still burning in. By the way, you think my hypothesis bout the headphone jack receiving the same signal as my LOD is possible?

 (oh that's my dad's soldering btw)


----------



## ruZZ.il

Wait a week, if the mod sounds worse, you're listening to black gates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then wait another month, if it sounds better, you're still listening to black gates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems unlikely that they're the same output, specially if the line out volume isn't controlled by the ipod. I guess the ipod volume control directly controls the internal amplifier circuit, which you're obviously bypassing. Give it some time, then compare again


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Success 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is an iMod of a nano first gen. I bypassed the whole internal wiring and maintained all original functionality. I cleaned it up a lot since the pic of the inside (forgot to take another one..). Soldering the wires internally to the dock pins was really difficult, so I don't recommend anyone do this (naturally, some will anyway). as I mentioned before, I used a little bit of teflon tubing to duct the wire through and hold it in place. I used hot glue to keep them in place. I used some multistrand wire I had lying around. I cut most of the strand at the end, leaving just one. I put a little solder blob where I cut just to keep it all together. The single strand is about the width of the pins, and it took me many attempts to get this right (admittedly, I believe it would have been easier with a good iron). I had some issues with the wire sticking out at first, that effected the screen. I router the wires a little better than seen here and that was solved. I still have some internal pressure somewhere thats slightly effecting my clickwheel. I will probably open it again to smooth it out even more. I got good at mating the little cables back into their sockets, but this was a bi... at first. Sound? it sounds great! better? I can't tell yet. I'm waiting for the epoxy on the dock to dry and will give it more of a listen. BG burn in starts now (and I believe in it too, my MAX showed me their way). 

 Thank you to everyone who's contributed to this thread showing me the way._

 

Wow. That's a pretty cool job! Very clean!

 I noticed that you did not remove the C53/C54 caps. Did you remove the inductors at the dock pins? Which dock pins did you solder the signals to if not the line-out ones?

 Assuming you soldered the wires to the line-out pins. I was under the impression that you need to remove the capacitors and inductors for the line-out to not get both modded and unmodded signals.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But iMod uses headphone out. Line out already = no volume control. My headphone out is preserved. Even so, it should not affect anything.

 Jonee, do you see anything wrong with my bridges??? My DIY iPod mod endeavour - 10+ huge images - BAMod!
 There are more detailed pictures there. I'm feeling confused and a lil disappointed now, doubt there's anything wrong though..._

 

well, maybe it's time to let BG caps to burned-in...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just finished my 1 gen nano mode. Comming very soon!_

 

oh, picts please...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Success 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is an iMod of a nano first gen. I bypassed the whole internal wiring and maintained all original functionality. I cleaned it up a lot since the pic of the inside (forgot to take another one..). Soldering the wires internally to the dock pins was really difficult, so I don't recommend anyone do this (naturally, some will anyway). as I mentioned before, I used a little bit of teflon tubing to duct the wire through and hold it in place. I used hot glue to keep them in place. I used some multistrand wire I had lying around. I cut most of the strand at the end, leaving just one. I put a little solder blob where I cut just to keep it all together. The single strand is about the width of the pins, and it took me many attempts to get this right (admittedly, I believe it would have been easier with a good iron). I had some issues with the wire sticking out at first, that effected the screen. I router the wires a little better than seen here and that was solved. I still have some internal pressure somewhere thats slightly effecting my clickwheel. I will probably open it again to smooth it out even more. I got good at mating the little cables back into their sockets, but this was a bi... at first. Sound? it sounds great! better? I can't tell yet. I'm waiting for the epoxy on the dock to dry and will give it more of a listen. BG burn in starts now (and I believe in it too, my MAX showed me their way). 

 Thank you to everyone who's contributed to this thread showing me the way._

 

aha, this are exactly what i want to do with my Nano...nice mod, ruZZ.il...can you give us pict (macro or super macro) from your pict *HERE* which route that you'd used from C53 and C54 to which one for dock connector ? many thx...


----------



## ishtob

the bypass looks great! it might have been easier on the internal pressure if you used some smaller gauged wires. (my nano mod used 30-32 awg, soldering to the pads was alot easier.)


----------



## wgr73

Dude, your dock is clean!! Nice job!


----------



## iQEM

@ ruZZ.il:
 sorry if i'm wrong but i see your dock then i'm wondering what pins that you using...it's look like it's not pin 1/2, 3, 4, or is it ?


----------



## ruZZ.il

I used the unused pins 14 and 17, hooked straight up to the output of the DAC, its basically in parallel to the whole existing output, so I've still got normal headphone out, normal line out with a normal dock, and iMod line out with the custom dock. but I reeeally would have had an easier time with the right wire and solder iron.. and would have had a lot harder time if I had any less steady of a hand. Ultimately, I'm not sure its even worth trying to keep the current line out.. it would probably have been easier to solder into the current line out pins somewhere accessible and just jumper the internal caps.. just making sure to always use an iMod dock.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ ruZZ.il:
 sorry if i'm wrong but i see your dock then i'm wondering what pins that you using...it's look like it's not pin 1/2, 3, 4, or is it ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Good question! I just saw that...what pins are you using? Hey, you should tell us exactly the steps you took to mod the nano....cause like CAvanessia said, you didnt remove any caps?! So what did you do? It looks as if you tried to build a parallel circuit to your dock(at the same time). If so, im not sure how that would work.


----------



## CAvanessia

This is just a guess, but it looks like ruZZ is using pins 14 and 17. If apple did not put any inductors there, that might be a better solution.


----------



## wgr73

Lol, you already answered....im reading your post now!

 Edit: Nice call CA! If CA is right about the inductor thing then you have a very good idea! That way you have a bunch of options (seeing/hoping again that those pins are 'unused')


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used the unused pins 14 and 17, hooked straight up to the output of the DAC, its basically in parallel to the whole existing output, so I've still got normal headphone out, normal line out with a normal dock, and iMod line out with the custom dock. but I reeeally would have had an easier time with the right wire and solder iron.. and would have had a lot harder time if I had any less steady of a hand. Ultimately, I'm not sure its even worth trying to keep the current line out.. it would probably have been easier to solder into the current line out pins somewhere accessible and just jumper the internal caps.. just making sure to always use an iMod dock._

 

i c, pins 14 & 17...this was interesting...how about the bypass wires from C53 and C54 ? where the spot that you'd solder it to conneck to your iMod dock ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good question! I just saw that...what pins are you using? Hey, you should tell us exactly the steps you took to mod the nano....cause like CAvanessia said, you didnt remove any caps?! So what did you do? It looks as if you tried to build a parallel circuit to your dock(at the same time). If so, im not sure how that would work._

 

you mean me ? i dont go any progress at all cos i & CAvanessia (hi sis) haven't sure where to put the spot from C53 and C54...it's seems ruZZ.il had clear the path, that's why i'm curious for the spot that he had used for his nano...


----------



## wgr73

Yeah iQem I was referring to you question...but nevermind about my question now, cause he answered it.


----------



## CAvanessia

I'm not an electronics expert, but to me having parallel signals might be suboptimal. I mean "in theory" we have the DAC signal traveling through the Z caps and the traces all the way to the original line-out pins, AND we tapped the DAC through the wires to two unused pins. While this is a really creative idea, does this "splitting" degrade the sound at all?

 Suppose we find out where the line-out pins are (I'm still working on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). We have the wires going from the DAC through the traces to these pins, AND we have wires going from DAC to the same pins. How is this different than ruZZ's setup in terms of quality?

 These are questions. I'm not trying to infer anything about our different approaches. I just want to understand a little more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol, you already answered....im reading your post now!

 Edit: Nice call CA! If CA is right about the inductor thing then you have a very good idea! That way you have a bunch of options (seeing/hoping again that those pins are 'unused')_


----------



## ruZZ.il

well, as long as nothing is plugged into the normal dock, what I meant by 'parallel' is kind of misleading.. its basically an alternative branch, and only one is used at a time. does the existence of the old caps effect the functionality of the current ones? maybe marginally.. maybe I'll jumper them sometime to find out.. but I doubt I'd be able to notice the diff. it does sound good right now though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 clean as hell.. I'm dreading the BG harshness phase though..

 .. though with caps, there probably is some sort of reactance by its mere existance in an open circuit.. there are voltage swings on one plate, and the other side tries to catch up, retarding the first plate capability to swing so, it really depends on how the DAC performs. if the DAC voltage swings as its intended to, I dont really care about the voltage swings on the other side of the internal caps anymore, I do care about the voltage swings on the other side of the iMod dock caps though, as those are what my amp sees and responds to.. and thats why we all choose to use better caps..


----------



## iQEM

@ ruZZ.il:
 so 2 pins only that you've used for the iMod dock ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 please guide me cos i really wanna have a try it right now...


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ultimately, I'm not sure its even worth trying to keep the current line out.. it would probably have been easier to solder into the current line out pins somewhere accessible and just jumper the internal caps.._

 

This conclusion is precisely what I was saying before. Can you check if CAvanessia's L6 and L7 are the correct inductors for the regular line out? If so, you can completely avoid all the unnecessary multistrand wire splicing, epoxy, hot glue and general frustration with your method. If your iron isn't any good, how did you solder such thin wires to such thin pins on the dock? If you could pull that job off, removing the caps and inductors should be cake.

 As for shorting C53 and C54, why bother when you could just remove it? ruZZ.il, I really don't understand why you went with such a complicated method when all you needed was to remove the two caps and two inductors, and then solder two wires between them. The method is the same as with the 5G, take the signal and send it straight to the dock. Unless I'm missing something here, why are you guys trying to complicate it?

 And Christine, did my suggestion help you find the right inductors? About the signal paralleling, theoretically it's worse if you don't remove C53 and C54, though it may be audibly negligible. You can leave it, or take it out for completeness' sake.

 Again, since it doesn't seem you guys are hearing me, keep it simple. Disable the regular line out by removing C53 and C54, and send it to the regular line out pins where the inductors are, supposedly L6 and L7. If it's not L6 and L7, could SOMEBODY please help me, CAvanessia, iQEM, et al out here?


----------



## CAvanessia

After a big lunch, I am determined to test L6 and L7 before I need to go out for dinner again (in 3 hours). =)

 Jon, I am going to tap the L6/L7 after "the stock amplification" and hook it up to a headphone jack. If I can hear anything (indicating that I've tapped the original line-out signals), then we are gold. I will remove the Z caps and L6/L7 inductors, etc.

 I will keep you guys updated.


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_vvs_75:

 Sounds good, dude. What configuration did you go with? What's your take on CAvanessia's dock situation?_

 

Is he triying to find traces to the dock pins?




 Ok here we go.

 My long term goal is to squeeze from ipod best sound possible for DIYer. Since I think that all DAC chips used in ipod very close in terms of SQ if not the same. I finally decided stop my choice on 1gen 4GB nano player. Small, flash memory player with color screen that all I need at this point. Since we must use output coupling capacitors, the only way is to get best sounding capasitors. There is no best! By best I mean sound that I am looking for and will sound best to my likening.

 So I read impressions and reviews about V-Cap dock and since RWA using it made me think that V-Cap OIMP oil capacitor – best that you can find. 

 After reading impression like that:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3418284-post25.html

 I decided that V-Cap cap is way go. So I start looking for the best-lowest price I could find on these caps. And to my frustration I found that there is only one place you can buy them.
 Along the road I found few tech articles with explanations why film caps better than any electrolytic for this application and to my luck I also stumble on this nice review that change my mind about V-Cap cap.

Capacitors: Sonicap vs. V-Cap OIMP vs. Multicap Vs. Mundorf on 10 Audio


 According to the review, from those they were testing the best sounding capacitor goes:

 1. Mundorf silver\oil - 4.7mF cost around $70
 2. Sonicap Gen I - 4.7mF $11
 3. V-Cap OIMP oil - 4.7mF $80

 Since DIY always about best bang for the buck my choice was obvious - number 2!



 Parts:

 1.Sonicap Gen I - 4.7mF $11 Sonicaps

 2. Piece of 0.75mm cooper laminated board (bought on Ebay)

 3. Enclosure - Mouser part # 546-1455C1201 $11 

 (1455C1201)

 This is 120mm case which I cut to 90mm to mach length with my nano and mini3.
 I think a lot easier to buy 80mm one. It slightly shorter than 1gen Nano. Mouser part # 546-1455C802BK – it’s a black one they out on clear cases.

 (1455C802BK)

 The enclosure comes with aluminum ends made from the same material. I drilled wrong hole so I ended up using my custom SS plates.

 4. Phone jack (really nice jack made in Japan) - Mouser part # 161-7300-EX $0.87 (161-7300-EX)













 Then I raped the caps in electric tape and cut the PCB to fit the caps












 Next I drilled holes in the case back and caps enclosure.





































 Analog Ground (blue wire) I took from phone jack. It’s most convenient place plus the biggest pad I could find.





























 I decided to make new super-duper separate dock. 
 Meanwhile I reworked my ipod.

 Two 47mF BG bypassed with 0.047 Auricap then 100 ohm RIKEN in series with 100k Riken to AGND for each channel.


----------



## CAvanessia

HOLY MOLY! Good job, VVS! Jon has a rocketpack. Yours is like a rocketship. LOL


----------



## wgr73

vvs, bro, WOW!!! You really took the diy to a whole new level! That looks amazing! It probably sounds better than it looks! Man nice job, great customization!


----------



## CAvanessia

I guess I come with good news too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I found the inductors where the L/R line-outs are located. With joneeboi's advice, I tapped the spots where I think L/R are with two wires. The other ends are soldered to a 3.5mm plug, grounded at the headphone ground. In theory, if these are the L/R original line-outs then I should hear music from just these two wires. I turned on the iPod and plugged in my amp. I hear music!

 So the next step for me is to desolder the C53/C54 caps, the inductors in my photo, and bridge the two spots matching up the channels.

 However, from my last photo, I also found another spot with 0-ohms per channel. These are even smaller parts with the yellow and magenta colors. Should these be de-soldered too? It looks as if there is a faint trace from the inductors to these small parts then after these parts they go to the dock.


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess I come with good news too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I found the inductors where the L/R line-outs are located. With joneeboi's advice, I tapped the spots where I think L/R are with two wires. The other ends are soldered to a 3.5mm plug, grounded at the headphone ground. In theory, if these are the L/R original line-outs then I should hear music from just these two wires. I turned on the iPod and plugged in my amp. I hear music!

 So the next step for me is to desolder the C53/C54 caps, the inductors in my photo, and bridge the two spots matching up the channels.

 However, from my last photo, I also found another spot with 0-ohms per channel. These are even smaller parts with the yellow and magenta colors. Should these be de-soldered too? It looks as if there is a faint trace from the inductors to these small parts then after these parts they go to the dock.






_

 

You see, in your signal path you still have tiny traces. Why not just solder wires to the dock line out pins directly?


----------



## iQEM

what an monsterous idea, Vvs...DIYmod nano with vcap, huh ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and an DIYamp too ? btw nice cans you got there, Ed9...


----------



## ruZZ.il

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not just solder wires to the dock line out pins directly?_

 

because they're tiny.. and not worth the effort. its like working really really hard to get something better, and you're never going to use the old thing anyway, so why not?. I did it cause I needed the challenge.. in retrospect, I should have spent more time studying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 iQEM: I added pin 29, which is the line out ground.

 and kudos on the dock job vvs, really neatly done! pity you hadn't found those pins before though, you could have used either an imod dock to maintain portability, or a normal dock to hookup to your new monster. I'm sure it sounds great though!


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_kudos on the dock job vvs, really neatly done! pity you hadn't found those pins before though, you could have used either an imod dock to maintain portability, or a normal dock to hookup to your new monster. I'm sure it sounds great though!_

 

Thanks! I know that the way through the dock connector better. I simply don't use ipod alone. But the biggest issue for me that I hate docks connectors! You just can listen music while charging your ipod.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However, from my last photo, I also found another spot with 0-ohms per channel. These are even smaller parts with the yellow and magenta colors. Should these be de-soldered too? It looks as if there is a faint trace from the inductors to these small parts then after these parts they go to the dock._

 

Now that you mention it, that actually makes sense to get rid of those tiny caps. They form a low pass filter if memory servers, so you should get rid of them. Thanks for pointing that out.

 Announcement: Get rid of the stuff between the inductors and pins!

 As for you vvs_75, you beat me to the punch. I was going to do the exact same thing with my Vitamin Qs but they haven't arrived yet! Props on the dock though. What kind of amp are you going to be using with your diyMod nano? I imagine the portability is reduced with the amp unless it's something like a Mini^3.


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 As for you vvs_75, you beat me to the punch. I was going to do the exact same thing with my Vitamin Qs but they haven't arrived yet! Props on the dock though. What kind of amp are you going to be using with your diyMod nano? I imagine the portability is reduced with the amp unless it's something like a Mini^3._

 

Yes it’s Mini^3, you can see it in my last picture.


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that you mention it, that actually makes sense to get rid of those tiny caps. They form a low pass filter if memory servers, so you should get rid of them. Thanks for pointing that out.

 Announcement: Get rid of the stuff between the inductors and pins!

 As for you vvs_75, you beat me to the punch. I was going to do the exact same thing with my Vitamin Qs but they haven't arrived yet! Props on the dock though. What kind of amp are you going to be using with your diyMod nano? I imagine the portability is reduced with the amp unless it's something like a Mini^3._

 

I will get on that when I get back tonight. I have a fundamental question about our methodology, though.

 If I remove the C53/C54 caps, does that mean the original line-out signals 
 don't work from the 3-4 pins anymore (assuming nothing else is changed)? I'm asking because I want to be sure that the sound coming out of the dock AFTER C53/C54 have been removed is the DAC signal that we tapped - not the original line out.

 If this is true, then soldering a wire from the C53/C54 pads to where the inductors are make perfect sense. We are skipping most of the small traces and low quality parts all the way to close to the dock connectors.

 We basically only have one path for the DAC signals. Am I interpreting this right? Or do we have two simultaneous signals even with the C53/C54 caps off? One from our wires and one from the traces to the dock?

 Stay tuned for photos =)


----------



## joneeboi

There are two simultaneous signals, but not the ones you're thinking of. They come from the click wheel-controlled headphone jack output and the diyMod path. Even so, there are the caps between the inductors and the pins that affect the signal quality. I saw them in the 5G and the 4G but didn't think much of them.

 Looking for foward to the pictures.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

That's crazy work vvs... By the way, after a night of burn in, and some probable improvement. Headphone out and my LOD is still giving very very similar sound, which is very clean, the slight diff may be because I'm using an external amp.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are two simultaneous signals, but not the ones you're thinking of. They come from the click wheel-controlled headphone jack output and the diyMod path. Even so, there are the caps between the inductors and the pins that affect the signal quality. I saw them in the 5G and the 4G but didn't think much of them.

 Looking for foward to the pictures._

 

Jon, if I use the dock line out, and removed the caps and inductors as shown in the previous pics, I should have no mixed signals right???


----------



## joneeboi

Correct.


----------



## CAvanessia

I just want to provide an update:

 I removed the C53/C54 caps and the L/R inductors indicated in my picture. The pads from C53/C54 are bridged to the pads where the L/R inductors used to be by 30 gauge wires. I created a standard LOD with 220uf nichicon radioshack caps, and I am getting sound!

 I will upload pictures tomorrow (or later today since its already 2am here). The re-route is VERY clean.

 Jon or anyone who wants to chime in, one more question (hopefully my last). I'm kind of weary of removing the lower set of caps (the super small ones). 

 It seems like the signal is moving from "inductor" --> trace --> small caps --> trace --> stuff --> dock pins.

 Would the small cap act as a bridge between the two traces? I mean, should I worry that the signal from the inductor won't reach the dock pins if I remove the small caps? How would I check for that before I remove it?

 Thanks.


----------



## iQEM

x2...


----------



## iQEM

i had the same pcb type as Vvs, different from Christine had...after several test i found the right spot, L6 & L7...











 sorry for the blurry photo's, i used my phonecell to get the pict...


----------



## iQEM

yay, finish on routing the bypass wires...


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Now you gotta work on your dock eh?

 By the way guys, my dad and I modded a dock adaptor so we can charge play sync at the same time. DIY-Universal Dock Adaptor!!! The BADock!!!
 Go take a look!


----------



## joneeboi

CAvanessia and iQEM:

 The caps are not connected in series with the inductors, so removing them won't eliminate your sound. Someone compared the path to a highway earlier, so in a sense the caps are providing an exit from the highway. They aren't part of the highway itself, but it does allow stuff to be removed from the highway, something we don't want. We want the fullest sound possible from the DAC, and having this particular exit from our highway will affect some of the high frequencies. Close the exit by removing the caps, and tell those charged particles the only way out is by going straight, into your amplifier.

 KoKoKrunch:

 That's a pretty sweet PCB. I like how the mini jack is incorporated into it. Looks like some good work.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

ahha the PCB and mini jack was part of the adaptor I modded! or else I would have incorporated everything into the PCB already.


----------



## ruZZ.il

Or straight into the capacitors, creating a field that creates the accumulation of the negative of the accumulated charge, so, its not exactly the same electrons flowing. but who can differentiate between them, so what's the difference, ha?  this is where the high pass filter comes from.. with low frequencies, there is almost enough time for a certain maximum charge to almost accumulate, which slows the whole process down, basically stopping more accumulation, hence, the dc blocking effects, or low frequency attenuation effect of the cap.. bla bla.. <shoots himself>


----------



## CAvanessia

Here's my "completed" and almost-internal 1G Nano diyMod! Essentially I took all of Joneeboi's advice and applied all of it to my nano. "Keep it simple" is the philosophy that I tried to keep throughout the mod.

 It took me a while to complete it, because no one knew the precise locations of the original line-out inductors for the 1G nano. I have highlighted the right ones for my version of the 1G nano (iQEM and some others have another version). There was a lot of testing, but I think it is worth it to any DIY-er in the end to finally nail down the last piece of the puzzle for any project.

 In summary, I took off C53/C54, took off the inductors in the photo, and took off the super small capacitors (see pics). This is VERY clean and very EASY to do. Once all the parts are removed the pads are at surprisingly easy to reach areas of the nano. The original line-out inductors are well-separated from the other chunk of inductors.

 My black gates are coming in on Thursday, so I will have an ALO-style diyMod dock with the caps in the dock. I have a pair of 0.47uf, 4.7uf, 47uf, and 220uf black gates coming. Most likely I will only use the 47 and 220uf pair. If anyone has any interest in the other two, please shoot me a PM. Also, I will have excess iPod dock connectors too. 

 I might order some soniccaps conditional on VVS' later impressions, so I'm never going to be done with my diyMod. Even though I'm not done, I would like to thank joneeboi for his patience while answering hundreds of my PMs and everyone else who participated in this thread.

 Some pics:


----------



## joneeboi

Any time, CAvanessia. I thank you for exploring the dock option. Those are some very revealing photos, which will help when other diyModders take on the diyMod nano 1G. Let us know if you come across any other iPods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have an iPod mini that is lacking a large capacity compact flash card. Once I get that card, I'll explore the diyMod mini.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now you gotta work on your dock eh?

 By the way guys, my dad and I modded a dock adaptor so we can charge play sync at the same time. DIY-Universal Dock Adaptor!!! The BADock!!!
 Go take a look!_

 

nice DIY KoKoKrunch, i'm gonna try em as well









  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CAvanessia and iQEM:

 The caps are not connected in series with the inductors, so removing them won't eliminate your sound. Someone compared the path to a highway earlier, so in a sense the caps are providing an exit from the highway. They aren't part of the highway itself, but it does allow stuff to be removed from the highway, something we don't want. We want the fullest sound possible from the DAC, and having this particular exit from our highway will affect some of the high frequencies. Close the exit by removing the caps, and tell those charged particles the only way out is by going straight, into your amplifier._

 

OK, thx...already remove C53/C54 (duo Z) & L6-L7 smd's...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my "completed" and almost-internal 1G Nano diyMod! Essentially I took all of Joneeboi's advice and applied all of it to my nano. "Keep it simple" is the philosophy that I tried to keep throughout the mod.

 It took me a while to complete it, because no one knew the precise locations of the original line-out inductors for the 1G nano. I have highlighted the right ones for my version of the 1G nano (iQEM and some others have another version). There was a lot of testing, but I think it is worth it to any DIY-er in the end to finally nail down the last piece of the puzzle for any project.

 In summary, I took off C53/C54, took off the inductors in the photo, and took off the super small capacitors (see pics). This is VERY clean and very EASY to do. Once all the parts are removed the pads are at surprisingly easy to reach areas of the nano. The original line-out inductors are well-separated from the other chunk of inductors.

 My black gates are coming in on Thursday, so I will have an ALO-style diyMod dock with the caps in the dock. I have a pair of 0.47uf, 4.7uf, 47uf, and 220uf black gates coming. Most likely I will only use the 47 and 220uf pair. If anyone has any interest in the other two, please shoot me a PM. Also, I will have excess iPod dock connectors too. 

 I might order some soniccaps conditional on VVS' later impressions, so I'm never going to be done with my diyMod. Even though I'm not done, I would like to thank joneeboi for his patience while answering hundreds of my PMs and everyone else who participated in this thread.

 Some pics:






_

 

x2

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any time, CAvanessia. I thank you for exploring the dock option. Those are some very revealing photos, which will help when other diyModders take on the diyMod nano 1G. Let us know if you come across any other iPods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have an iPod mini that is lacking a large capacity compact flash card. Once I get that card, I'll explore the diyMod mini._

 

nice, looking forward for picts...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and as Christine, thx for make it more clear to all of us joneeboi... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i never get anywhere without your thread here...


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Hey, if anyone tries the way I modded my iPod, the one that has caps inside the 4G, can they try plugging into the headphone out and dock and then switching A-B-A-B if possible. Because after pretty extensive burn in of 40+ hours, the headphone out again still has zero difference compared to the dock line out in such a comparison. It's really strange =\ 

 Oh and Merry Christmas eve by the way everyone.


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any time, CAvanessia. I thank you for exploring the dock option. Those are some very revealing photos, which will help when other diyModders take on the diyMod nano 1G. Let us know if you come across any other iPods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have an iPod mini that is lacking a large capacity compact flash card. Once I get that card, I'll explore the diyMod mini._

 

I have access to an 80gb video, but its already too big for me to lug around without an amp.

 My cousin wanted me to mess with her 4gb mini, but he probably won't want to buy an amp to go with it.


----------



## joneeboi

*sigh*

 There is a difference, you just aren't hearing it. Clearly, the headphone jack and line out signals pass through different amps. Just because they sound "the same" doesn't mean they are the same. It's probably that your setup doesn't discern the differences that well and you just can't hear the difference. They sound the same, but they aren't identical. What are you so worried about?


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have access to an 80gb video, but its already too big for me to lug around without an amp.

 My cousin wanted me to mess with her 4gb mini, but he probably won't want to buy an amp to go with it._

 

What you could do with the iPod mini is to take the signal from the click wheel-controlled caps and put it through 220uF capacitors. Then you can disable the headphone out and send the signal from the caps to the jack. I wonder if there is any other digital stuff we have to mess around with to get it to work, but it's worth a shot.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Yeah I know there are different factors that are involved... but I'm just kinda disappointed at the minimal difference that I'm hearing, instead of what everyone seems to be hearing. I'm a little worried because my friend and I arranged for a iMod vs DIYMod "showdown" this week lol. But well... I will probably find more discerning ears to try it out. Oh and I realized I forgot to thank you for having this thread up, really appreciated the effort you put in joneeboi!


----------



## joneeboi

Glad I could help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like I said earlier, it could be the Bose effect that the iMod owners are hearing. Some of the claims they make are so wild that you wonder how a $5 chip could make such a difference. I, too, found it to sound really good, but I haven't ever heard a high-end external DAC. I tried to get an Alien DAC to work on my laptop but Vista+foobar2000 was working weird for me. It's good that you can cram so much music into your external amplifiers, but beyond that I wonder how good it can really get. Nobody has explored the digital out diyMod yet, so once that gets going, everything will get insane. Remember that the Wolfon CODECs use I2S signals to give us our musics, so a digital out iPod isn't so insane. Tapping the right pads might be a bit more difficult, however.

 Please share with us the results of your comparo, KoKo. I'm sure it'll be the first of many once this diyMod thing really gets going.


----------



## iQEM

do you ppl have any idea WHY my clickwheel didn't work properly ? i still can press menu button but the other button no response...


----------



## ruZZ.il

iQEM: check the ribbon, make sure its plugged in propoerly.
 KoKo: what headphone/amp are you using? if you're setup is'nt revealing enough, you may not be able to pick up the differences.. we're talking about a quieter background, better detail, more controlled bass, better separation (kind of like a wider sound stage).. these differences are already heard through the normal line out dock compared to the headphone out.. the diymod just does it a bit better.. none of these would be observable with say, the stock ipod headphones.. nor anything in their range.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Okay my set up is actually pretty average. I'm using my above average desktop speakers which has an amp. Both jacks are plugged into that amp which has AUX channel and the Main channel so it allows me to switch channels easily. For the "showdown" though, I will be going to an audio shop to do it, and I'm most probably gonna use the studio monitoring speakers they have setup there. That might say more bout the mod. I know my setup isn't really good, but because of all the reviews maybe my expectations were abit too high, that's why I was disappointed at the almost undetectable difference it made when I hooked it up. Perhaps it's my room too, it's not very optimized for sound. So yeah, once I do the comparison, I will tell you guys bout the results for sure. It'll be iMod vs DIYMod vs iPod hopefully. Good luck to me/us!


----------



## joneeboi

iQEM:

 Check the ribbon for any kind of cuts or damage. Also, if there isn't enough pressure on the cable, the click wheel won't respond. Make sure you flip down the tab and that the ribbon is secure. I actually snapped the tab on my nano's click wheel slot before I gave it away, but I resolved the problem by jamming a folded piece of paper in there. Isn't that a new click wheel as well? If it is, I'd say the problem lies with the connection, not the ribbon cable, unless you broke it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 KoKoKrunch:

 From what I've seen, expectation is one of the great deciders in audio and in life. What the heck do I mean by that? When your expectations are low, it's easier to be surprised. When your expectations are too high, it's easier to be disappointed. When someone sees the price tag on a Grado RA-1, they're expecting the sound to match that of similarly priced equipment. But when they finally hear it, it becomes a whole new ball game. "I prefer the Melos SHA-1s selling for the same price in the FS forums that nobody seems to want to buy." On the other hand, that's why head-fi is also in love with the Koss KSC75 and KSC35. You don't expect much from such a cheap headphone, but it delivers. I let my brother listen to it when I first got one, and he just laid on the stairs listening for something like half an hour, mesmerized by the sound, unaware of its price or its legacy. In that vein, try to keep an open mind when you're at the showdown. Give each setup the same chance you gave the last, and that way you'll get a better perspective on which is better.

 Oh yeah, take pictures and send us all a postcard


----------



## ruZZ.il

Talking about damaged ribbons, mine got a little screwed up (uhoh..), but I'm in the process of ordering a new clickwheel for like 5$ from ebay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm also ordering a bunch of parts to repair friends broken pods.. cracked screens, etc.. got me into it now


----------



## joneeboi

I have an update to my diyMod 4G click wheel. I recently got another one from my friend. His was broken, which I quickly and cleanly fixed. Turns out the hard drive from my old diyMod was perfectly fine, it's just that I messed up the logic board. As you can see in the photo, I accidentally removed an inductor beside the line out inductors, which probably was the one that finally crippled my diyMod. Alas, it's good to have another iPod, one that doesn't have holes all over the back. This is good news. I will be diyModding it now.

 Notice the missing inductor at L4 which was replaced by a short. That wire did no good.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM: check the ribbon, make sure its plugged in propoerly._

 

i think had done that, but it's my mistake...i forgot that the battery had empty before i solder the bypass route...LOL stupid me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay my set up is actually pretty average. I'm using my above average desktop speakers which has an amp. Both jacks are plugged into that amp which has AUX channel and the Main channel so it allows me to switch channels easily. For the "showdown" though, I will be going to an audio shop to do it, and I'm most probably gonna use the studio monitoring speakers they have setup there. That might say more bout the mod. I know my setup isn't really good, but because of all the reviews maybe my expectations were abit too high, that's why I was disappointed at the almost undetectable difference it made when I hooked it up. Perhaps it's my room too, it's not very optimized for sound. So yeah, once I do the comparison, I will tell you guys bout the results for sure. It'll be iMod vs DIYMod vs iPod hopefully. Good luck to me/us!_

 

goodluck then, and i wanna say to all ppl here that celeberate christmast...Merry Christmast & happy new year !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM:

 Check the ribbon for any kind of cuts or damage. Also, if there isn't enough pressure on the cable, the click wheel won't respond. Make sure you flip down the tab and that the ribbon is secure. I actually snapped the tab on my nano's click wheel slot before I gave it away, but I resolved the problem by jamming a folded piece of paper in there. Isn't that a new click wheel as well? If it is, I'd say the problem lies with the connection, not the ribbon cable, unless you broke it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

i hope not, but that's OK now...my clickwheel just work like before the DIYmod...


----------



## powertoold

Why hasn't vvs posted his impressions?!? I want to know how good those Sonicaps are


----------



## joneeboi

Well, after an hour of work, I finally pulled off the diyMod 4G internal BGs configuration. Those tiny inductors are hard to work with, and it's easy to tear the pad right off the board if you're not careful. Also, you have to be careful how you orient the BGs' leads once they find themselves south of the hard drive, cause it is very little clearance here, not to mention there's something screwed to the back casing of the iPod that introduces more obstruction in this area. I think I pulled it off okay so that it won't ever short against the dock's outer casing. I'm burning in my MAX's BGs, and who knows if I'll keep those once I try out the Silmic IIs and Muse ESs, so no sonic impressions from me. We'll have to rely on KoKo for that.

 powertoold:

 Maybe if you PM him, he'll post it. He's been pretty good with responding to PMs so far.


----------



## joneeboi

Announcement: We made it onto Hack a Day. See the link DIY iPod DAC modding - Hack a Day


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Announcement: We made it onto Hack a Day. See the link DIY iPod DAC modding - Hack a Day_

 

WOW! I used to be a frequent visitor to hackaday. Even before this thread existed, I searched hackaday for an iMod-type hack but did not find anything. 

 Congrats joneeboi! 

 I'm still waiting for my new nano battery and parts... the wait is agonizing! I would also like impressions on the soniccaps.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Rely on me? For what??? The comparison??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So jonee you did it the way my dad and I did? Heh that's cool. Oh, the thing screwed to the back you are talking about is the dock connector sleeve right? For me, we grind-ed(i know the past tense of grind is ground, but just to avoid confusion lol) the screws on the dock jack sleeve flatter, so that it doesn't push too hard against the cover.

 Oh and jonee, if I want to line it to the iPod headphone jack (I might want to switch to more Hi-Q wires in the near future, but I don't have a Hi-Q dock), where do I solder the L and R ends to? Any idea?


----------



## pcyl

Hiz pls enlighten me

 much interested in the ipod mod for the 5th gen but if you could help me out as 
 is the wiring diagram from ur post as to remove the 4cap as show on you post and soldering the 2 wires the the point as shown in which the signal path will direct to the dock which is the black gates cap to use on the dock that Red wine audio uses?
 As imod from Red wind audio becos it cost hell of a lot?
 and one last question which is the prefer wire for the solder? should i use silver wires or copper? or silver solder?
 what grades of wire to use ? which cap spec should i use that ALO audio uses?
 Thanks


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Remove those 4 caps and solder to those two points like jericoh did. I feel that silver wires should be good, just get the best grade you can afford since it's gonna be cheaper than RWA's anyway lol. I feel however silver solder is unnecessary, doubt it'll make a difference that's audible since the contact there is so small. The capacitor that iMod uses is the Blackgates NX Hi-Q 47uF 6.3V. Hope that answers all your doubts.


----------



## pcyl

Much appreciated for info
 and will proceed getting dock and the cap
 will be proceed one i get hold of the cap


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why hasn't vvs posted his impressions?!? I want to know how good those Sonicaps are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

x2 (x3 with CAvanessia...)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Announcement: We made it onto Hack a Day. See the link DIY iPod DAC modding - Hack a Day_

 

yay, this gonna be best thread ever for ipod user...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well done joneeboi, without your thread here, i'm (maybe) won't try to do DIY for anything...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW! I used to be a frequent visitor to hackaday. Even before this thread existed, I searched hackaday for an iMod-type hack but did not find anything. 

 Congrats joneeboi! 

 I'm still waiting for my new nano battery and parts... the wait is agonizing! I would also like impressions on the soniccaps._

 

what's wrong with your nano anyway Christine ? like, my lcd are crack, my battery are not in 100% condition (drop), scracth all over the case & my next button didn't work, way before i made my mind to try this mod...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and yes, i wait the new lcd that i had order to come too...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Much appreciated for info
 and will proceed getting dock and the cap
 will be proceed one i get hold of the cap_

 

goodluck, pcyl...dont affraid to ask is if you stuck or such thing like that...i'm sure some or everyone gonna response to what you ask for...


----------



## pcyl

Thanks you guy are great help i shall be ordering the dock and BG cap ,any advise which site have a better deal for international orders]
 and will open up the ipod 5th gen soon 
 will try use silver wires for cleaner sound 

 Thanks


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yay, this gonna be best thread ever for ipod user...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well done joneeboi, without your thread here, i'm (maybe) won't try to do DIY for anything...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It will only be the best because you all helped contribute to it. Lots of the ideas here came from other posters, not just me. For example, KoKoKrunch and his dad figured out the internal BG cap method; ishtob did the same with the nano; CAvanessia did a lot of the grunt work with the nano dock; and ruZZ.il showed us why we all want to just disconnect the regular line out instead of using the unused pins.  I'm just here to organize things on the original post and answer questions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad I could introduce you to DIY. I'm trying to make this thread as user-friendly as possible so that beginners like you can take their first step in DIY. I hope it's not too much of a leap though.


----------



## koike

Well I had done this mod a long time ago (while I ordered my iMod).
 Decided to redo as I sold my iMod and the battery died.
 I have used a 4G battery on this 3G ipod. The battery is outside.
 I did not drill a hole. I used the current headphone out hole.
 Only gripe is that I can hear the harddisk spin.
 Probably a few layers of tape between the harddisk and the wires will do. Will try it later.


----------



## joneeboi

Cool stuff, koike. Why did you use a 4G battery on the 3G? It doesn't cost that much to get a new(, higher capacity) battery these days. About $20 should do the trick. So you bought an iMod and you did the mod on another iPod, then sold the iMod? Did you get a chance to compare the sound between the two?

 Linky: ipod 3g battery, MP3 Accessories, Batteries Chargers items on eBay.com


----------



## koike

i bought an imod and then in the mean time i DIYed one.
 when the imod came i used the imod.
 but i found that i need the money for my home rig.
 so i sold my imod and then brought out my diymod.
 the reason i reused the old 4g battery was simply because i didnt want to spend any money. the money was to go to my home rig.

 edit: im using a different value of bg hi-q nx caps. so it doesnt sound as warm.


----------



## wgr73

Wow I haven't posted in a couple days and come to find out this thread is on hack a day! Nice! People have made some pretty good progress, thats great! I hope to get that 4G to mod soon, my 5G still sounds amazing.


----------



## pcyl

Well if you guys need battery replacement can check this website
WORCELL - Singapore Premier Battery Bank


----------



## joneeboi

Thanks for the link, pcyl. That seems like a pretty safe source to get your batteries from if eBay doesn't work out. I find the prices to be quite more expensive than eBay, but I added it to the original post anyway. Someone will find it helpful.


----------



## CAvanessia

My generic eBay nano 1G battery only cost $6 shipped with tools. I can't say too much about the battery quality though. It's 850mAh. It has to be good, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know that CompUSA brick and mortar has iPod batteries. I saw a 1G Nano ENERGIZER (famous brand) battery with tools there for $20. There were other iPod batteries for $20-$30. Now the prices are hefty, but I'm sure Energizer batteries are at least as good as the OEM kind. Here is a sample link: Energizer iPod replacement battery. If I saw this earlier, I would have jumped on it instead of waiting for my battery during the Christmas USPS rush.

 I'm itching to mod another iPod, but I don't need another one. I have the diyMod nano, 5G 80gb video, and possibly a touch in the near future.

 I bought a pair of Yuin PK3's yesterday from head-direct. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the diyMod had too much treble I think, so I opted for the bassier Yuins. Now i'm thinking about buying a more portable amp to replace my Porta Corda III. Dr. Xin, work on your customer service!!


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Oh thanks for the link pcyl, I live in Singapore and I've had trouble finding local sources for the batteries. Thanks a ton!


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I had done this mod a long time ago (while I ordered my iMod).
 Decided to redo as I sold my iMod and the battery died.
 I have used a 4G battery on this 3G ipod. The battery is outside.
 I did not drill a hole. I used the current headphone out hole.
 Only gripe is that I can hear the harddisk spin.
 Probably a few layers of tape between the harddisk and the wires will do. Will try it later._

 

looks nice...so you use headphone out hole to route the cable out ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the caps place inside the ipod itself ?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My generic eBay nano 1G battery only cost $6 shipped with tools. I can't say too much about the battery quality though. It's 850mAh. It has to be good, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know that CompUSA brick and mortar has iPod batteries. I saw a 1G Nano ENERGIZER (famous brand) battery with tools there for $20. There were other iPod batteries for $20-$30. Now the prices are hefty, but I'm sure Energizer batteries are at least as good as the OEM kind. Here is a sample link: Energizer iPod replacement battery. If I saw this earlier, I would have jumped on it instead of waiting for my battery during the Christmas USPS rush.

 I'm itching to mod another iPod, but I don't need another one. I have the diyMod nano, 5G 80gb video, and possibly a touch in the near future.

 I bought a pair of Yuin PK3's yesterday from head-direct. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the diyMod had too much treble I think, so I opted for the bassier Yuins. Now i'm thinking about buying a more portable amp to replace my Porta Corda III. Dr. Xin, work on your customer service!!_

 

are there any bigger capacity battery for Nano 1st GEN out there ?


----------



## joneeboi

Here's one at 850mAh:

850mAh BATTERY +FREE TOOLS FOR IPOD NANO 1G 1ST GEN 1 - (eBay item 300184222562 end time Dec-27-07 20:37:32 PST)


----------



## Johannes Freed

I'm current just in the information gathering-process of diyModding a 5.5G...

 If I remove the two Z-caps and solder on wires straight from there to the blackgates, do I need some other capacitors than suggested?

 (I know nothing about electronics, hence I will just buy the right parts and bring them to my geeky pops when I go visit him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## joneeboi

When you desolder the Z caps, you bring wires from there to the dock, which is done by removing the L2 and L3 inductors and soldering the wires there. The Black Gates go into the dock connector, and from there it goes to your amp.

 edit: To actually answer the question, no you don't need any more capacitors after getting the Black Gates.


----------



## Johannes Freed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you desolder the Z caps, you bring wires from there to the dock, which is done by removing the L2 and L3 inductors and soldering the wires there. The Black Gates go into the dock connector, and from there it goes to your amp.

 edit: To actually answer the question, no you don't need any more capacitors after getting the Black Gates._

 

Sorry, I was being vague. I actually meant if I drill a hole in the side of my iPod and put the bg caps on the outside. Like the RWA special:






 I wouldnt mind the "tail" at all.


 edit: Great thread btw


----------



## joneeboi

So you want to have a pigtail on the 5.5G? Sure, that works. From Z caps to BGs to plug. My only caution is that you ground your plug/jack before calling it finished. That's me, ishtob and CAvanessia bringing you this checkpoint 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you pigtail your diyMod, you may want to keep with a small line of capacitors. We are especially fortunate with the NX Hi-Q series because they are nonpolar and sound film-like; and they're small to boot. You can use pretty much any capacitor you want, but the NX Hi-Q is a very good candidate. I'm still waiting on my Vitamin Qs, and we're still waiting for vvs_75's report on his Auricaps. Plus you could check out what ALO is doing with the VCaps, Auricaps, and what EFN did with his iMod.


----------



## Johannes Freed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you want to have a pigtail on the 5.5G? Sure, that works. From Z caps to BGs to plug. My only caution is that you ground your plug/jack before calling it finished. That's me, ishtob and CAvanessia bringing you this checkpoint 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you pigtail your diyMod, you may want to keep with a small line of capacitors. We are especially fortunate with the NX Hi-Q series because they are nonpolar and sound film-like; and they're small to boot. You can use pretty much any capacitor you want, but the NX Hi-Q is a very good candidate. I'm still waiting on my Vitamin Qs, and we're still waiting for vvs_75's report on his Auricaps. Plus you could check out what ALO is doing with the VCaps, Auricaps, and what EFN did with his iMod._

 

Great, thanks. I've read everything on iMod incl V-Caps and Auricaps, I will look into EFN now.

 edit: Holy crap, he's got a rocket attached to his iPod *drool*


----------



## Johannes Freed

Isn't the sound signal compromised going through the dock?


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johannes Freed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isn't the sound signal compromised going through the dock?_

 

I highly doubt so(there are some Apple's internal wiring that the signal has to pass through though, what do you guys think?), but I might want to wire it to the headphone out of mine sometime soon... but that's gonna make my ultimate link silver reference redundant... nvm, should be able to sell it off. Still jonee, where do wire it if we're going for the headphone out???


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's one at 850mAh:

850mAh BATTERY +FREE TOOLS FOR IPOD NANO 1G 1ST GEN 1 - (eBay item 300184222562 end time Dec-27-07 20:37:32 PST)_

 

thx for the link, Jon...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the seller em self got not too good feedback, maybe i search for another seller to bought from...


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I highly doubt so(there are some Apple's internal wiring that the signal has to pass through though, what do you guys think?), but I might want to wire it to the headphone out of mine sometime soon... but that's gonna make my ultimate link silver reference redundant... nvm, should be able to sell it off. Still jonee, where do wire it if we're going for the headphone out???_

 

That depends on which model you're talking about. I believe you can just cut the traces leading up to the headphone outs and solder straight to the solder pads for the headphone outs for most. For the 4G, that should be fairly obvious, as it would also be for the nano 1G, I imagine. The 5G is a bit different, as you have to route the wires past the metal frame, which will undoubtedly mess with the final closure of the iPod. You may be able to hack away at the iPod's board, but that's up to you as it's multilayered and you can't always see what you're sawing away. I assume you're talking about the 4G, since I *think* I've seen pictures of you having one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just cut the traces leading up to the headphone jack route wires back from the BGs up to the headphone jack. Good news is it's already grounded for you. How thoughtful of Apple.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Bleh... my dad seems unwilling to do wire it to headphone out for me hehe. I think the wiring from board to dock should not affect SQ i guess?


----------



## pcyl

so i guess the best wire to use is 30awg with silver coating 
 for signal path to the dock pins 2 & 3
 correct me if i am wrong


----------



## ruZZ.il

Some people don't necessarily like the effects of silver.. the differences are so small though, that it may take you quiet a while and a few different cables of experimentation till you figure out what you like most (I don't suggest this mod is where you try them all out though.. maybe some interconnects or something). I personally haven't figured out what I like most, so I just try use high quality stuff. Not over the wall expensive but not flimsy and cheap.. so, I'm not sure what's 'best', but that wire will probably be satisfactory


----------



## KoKoKrunch

I actually did a test with a supposedly low quality copper interconnect about $17 and $100 silver interconnect just now... the effects, to tell the truth... are very minor and hard to pick out if there was any. Because these wirings are so short, there will be hardly any signal loss/disruption along the way. It's not like you're dragging a wire from your living room to your bedroom. The difference they make, after finally being convinced by my father, I conclude, is hardly audible in MOST cases. (I've never heard supposedly really exceptional ones, but my interconnect should be good - Ultimate Link Silver Reference) At the most, I'd say, there was a little higher clarity on certain tracks. I sound so skeptical for a DIYer =\ But still if I get my hands on some (supposedly zzz) good wires, I will try and get my dad to change the copper wires that I used in my mod for me, and hopefully make myself an interconnect at the same time. Music often sounds better simply cause you spent the cash on it and you know it's there even though the diff is minor minor minor hehe


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Music often sounds better simply cause you spent the cash on it and you know it's there even though the diff is minor minor minor hehe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very true! I hear people do this all the time


----------



## pcyl

So what the reply what gauges of wire to use that will not affect the click wheel? 28awg or 30awg ?


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Haha, I admit it myself. But you can't help it sometimes. I think now I'll try focusing more on headphone upgrades, those are the most significant... Btw, mod showdown in 2 days haha


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what the reply what gauges of wire to use that will not affect the click wheel? 28awg or 30awg ?_

 

Im using 30AWG and it still affects it, so go smaller if you don't want it to affect it. With 30awg it is only minimal though, so it may work for you.

 Koko: lol, I hope the showdown turns out well!


----------



## ishtob

I think 30awg is fine, depending on how you route the wire, if should not affect your click wheel that much. personally I find wires that are smaller than 30awg hard to work with, 30awg is already pushing my ability to solder small objects


----------



## joneeboi

The difference between wire gauge usually is to compensate for heat produced by current. The 5.5G chip can deliver 0.9W into 8 ohms which, if my calculation is correct, is 10.6mA by P = (I^2)R. That seems a bit low, but either way, the gauge is negligible. The differences we're talking here isn't even in the milliohms, so please don't fret too much about gauge in terms of sound. At this length and current rating, there is no reason to worry about gauge this much besides getting it to fit uniformly inside the diyMod 5.5G. Stepping further into dangerous territory here, I think people buy expensive cables just to look good, not for the sound. "I value my sound so much that I spent this many thousand dollars on my cables." While on the race track the road conditions make a huge difference, if you're driving a smart fortwo, you ought to be worrying about getting new tires or a faster car instead of paving 3 feet of new concrete. Spend your money where it'll make the most difference, like getting better caps or an assortment of caps to "roll" for your favourite sound.

 I could be making mountains out of mole hills here, but it seems I don't ever to get my point across to some people =T


----------



## ishtob

check naviship's ebay store for some nice 30awg SPC wires


----------



## wgr73

good point ishtob


----------



## rourouni815

I'm new to this imod i was wondering what would i need in order to finish my 5.5g mod. I already disassembled my ipod would i just need to solder the two wires? What does it mean to "remove"?


----------



## joneeboi

When you remove the caps from the board, you need to heat up both ends of the caps so that the solder isn't holding it down to the board. If you check out Tangent's video on desoldering components, that might help you out a bit. Essentially you heat one side, then the other, then the other, and keep alternating until both ends are loose enough that you can just lift the cap off the board. This process reveals solder pads that you can solder the wires to. Send these wires to the dock.


----------



## powertoold

Thanks for that movie Jon, it will be very helpful


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rourouni815* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm new to this imod i was wondering what would i need in order to finish my 5.5g mod. I already disassembled my ipod would i just need to solder the two wires? What does it mean to "remove"?_

 

Make sure you have a fine tip soldering iron. My tip was very blunt, and I could not remove the little caps and inductors for a long time. I kept alternating and alternating and nothing happened.


----------



## nickknutson

What is the smallest size cap that one could use doing their diyMod?


----------



## CAvanessia

Are you trying to fit the caps into your dock connetor or inside the iPod? I'm slightly familiar with blackgate sizes. The smallest one should be the 0.47uf one. However, you can fit the 47uf (larger than the 0.47) into the dock connector according to fellow members.

 I'm not sure about other brands.

 BTW, I love your avatar. Dwight is the best.


----------



## nickknutson

I'm looking to use it in a custom application...I'm just wondering what is the smallest uf I can use. I also may make my own docks as well...fwiw

 Thanks, Dwight rules!


----------



## wgr73

Hey nick, just a question. Were you wondering about the smallest size available, or the smallest size that would work sonically? Because they make very small cap(s)(values/physically) and if you calculate the corner frequencies you may find that going to small will really limit your sound.


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey nick, just a question. Were you wondering about the smallest size available, or the smallest size that would work sonically? Because they make very small cap(s)(values/physically) and if you calculate the corner frequencies you may find that going to small will really limit your sound._

 

I was wondering what the minimum uf that is needed to obsorb the current running from the DAC out the lineout. I was looking at both kinds of V-cap capacitors, the teflon and Oil Impregnated. I see 4.7uf and 6.8uf's being used...what is absolutly needed? 0.10uf?


----------



## joneeboi

I'm not sure on the electrics of it, but the datasheets say 1uF is cool. In terms of size, the 0.1uF NX has only 1mm diam[e]ter difference from 22uF[, and 2mm from the 47uF]. I have no offset with these bad boys. In retrospect, I should have gotten the 47s. These size caps aren't too expensive, so maybe you could experiment for us 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 "Would I ever leave this company? Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most." - DKS


----------



## CAvanessia

My BGs finally came in today! I made a temporary rocketpack for my BG 220uf caps. Basically I used a spare mint container to house two 3.5mm jacks and just hooked up the two caps using the leads only. The container has a sliding lid on the top that can be very easily removed in case I need to swap some parts.

 My set up currently has the diyMod Nano with FLAC-to-Apple Lossless songs-->ipod connector with cryo vampire wire and Canare F12 plug --> container with BGs and made in japan 3.5mm jacks --> 3.5mm to 3.5m interconnect with cryo vampire wires --> Porda Corda III --> DIY Koss KSC75s.

 The design is not finalized yet. I'm planning on moving the cap closer to the other cap and moving the entire set up into a very small container.

 Initial impressions: bass is definitely more punchy and "controlled". I can hear more background instruments and sounds than before. The "mids" are better or more "seductive" according to RWA. I can't wait until the burn-in period is over!

 I'm *still* waiting for my battery and qables connectors. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, if the BGs sound much better after burn-in, I may make a VVS soniccap dock.


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure on the electrics of it, but the datasheets say 1uF is cool. In terms of size, the 0.1uF NX has only 1mm diam[e]ter difference from 22uF[, and 2mm from the 47uF]. I have no offset with these bad boys. In retrospect, I should have gotten the 47s. These size caps aren't too expensive, so maybe you could experiment for us 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Would I ever leave this company? Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most." - DKS_

 


 Do you guy get audio out from the orginal ipod after the removal of the on board Cap(4pcs)


----------



## joneeboi

Great work, CAvanessia! That's a great-looking rig you have there. I'm still burning in my setup as we speak, but bass has returned somewhat (for the moment). It's good to see people are still working on their diyMods.

 pcyl:

 I still get audio from the original headphone jack. Are you not getting any sound out of your headphone jack? Both signals can run at the same time, both theoretically and empirically.


----------



## CAvanessia

Arghh - my Nano randomly freezes! It's so irritating as it froze three times today while I'm burning-in the BGs. I don't think it's the diyMod's fault as google shows that this is a common problem.

 Does anyone else have this problem? 

 After reading some V-cap dock impressions, I have decided to sell the remainder of my BG caps and supplies to get some Soniccaps (hey, I'm a poor graduate student. I can't afford the V-caps). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will enclose the caps in a plastic enclosure from Radioshack or a larger mint-tin I have. No fancy stuff here


----------



## joneeboi

I actually had some random freezing with my diyMod 4G, but it went away after the battery ran out and I recharged it. Another alternative is to RockBox your nano.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My BGs finally came in today! I made a temporary rocketpack for my BG 220uf caps. Basically I used a spare mint container to house two 3.5mm jacks and just hooked up the two caps using the leads only. The container has a sliding lid on the top that can be very easily removed in case I need to swap some parts.

 My set up currently has the diyMod Nano with FLAC-to-Apple Lossless songs-->ipod connector with cryo vampire wire and Canare F12 plug --> container with BGs and made in japan 3.5mm jacks --> 3.5mm to 3.5m interconnect with cryo vampire wires --> Porda Corda III --> DIY Koss KSC75s.

 The design is not finalized yet. I'm planning on moving the cap closer to the other cap and moving the entire set up into a very small container.

 Initial impressions: bass is definitely more punchy and "controlled". I can hear more background instruments and sounds than before. The "mids" are better or more "seductive" according to RWA. I can't wait until the burn-in period is over!

 I'm *still* waiting for my battery and qables connectors. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, if the BGs sound much better after burn-in, I may make a VVS soniccap dock._

 

look nice, Christine...can you share the pick inside your dock there ? btw the cable look's good...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you guy get audio out from the orginal ipod after the removal of the on board Cap(4pcs)_

 

both still, even from line out nor headphone out...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great work, CAvanessia! That's a great-looking rig you have there. I'm still burning in my setup as we speak, but bass has returned somewhat (for the moment). It's good to see people are still working on their diyMods._

 

x2

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Arghh - my Nano randomly freezes! It's so irritating as it froze three times today while I'm burning-in the BGs. I don't think it's the diyMod's fault as google shows that this is a common problem.

 Does anyone else have this problem? 

 After reading some V-cap dock impressions, I have decided to sell the remainder of my BG caps and supplies to get some Soniccaps (hey, I'm a poor graduate student. I can't afford the V-caps). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will enclose the caps in a plastic enclosure from Radioshack or a larger mint-tin I have. No fancy stuff here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yes, what software vetrsion of your nano right now ? have you update the software lately ? it fix few bug's of it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually had some random freezing with my diyMod 4G, but it went away after the battery ran out and I recharged it. Another alternative is to RockBox your nano._

 

yes, Rockbox is an alternative to operate your ipod without the stock os from apple...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 haven't tried em yet but it's looke pretty cool...have you ppl have ever try Gopod ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i use Gopod for the headphone out, DIYmod for the line out...yet still doing the dock connector now...


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Arghh - my Nano randomly freezes! It's so irritating as it froze three times today while I'm burning-in the BGs. I don't think it's the diyMod's fault as google shows that this is a common problem.

 Does anyone else have this problem? 

 After reading some V-cap dock impressions, I have decided to sell the remainder of my BG caps and supplies to get some Soniccaps (hey, I'm a poor graduate student. I can't afford the V-caps). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will enclose the caps in a plastic enclosure from Radioshack or a larger mint-tin I have. No fancy stuff here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The nano is a pain in the ass, it froze two times on the train to school today... and it's the 3G one... I dunno why it happens... weird.

 Edit: And guys, the showdown is supposed to be today. But my friend couldn't turn up cause his boss dumped a pile of work on him, and he has to work overtime to finish it... So showdown will not be today, but I'm still going to the audio shop to let the guys there try it out and gather some comments... I hope my ears fail me in not hearing the difference!


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_look nice, Christine...can you share the pick inside your dock there ? btw the cable look's good...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sorry - I glued it shut already. I made that dock a while ago. It only has 3 pins hot glued to the dock connector body (others were pulled out), and the massive vampire wires very carefully soldered onto the pins.

 I was very eager to try Rockbox, but I've heard that you only get HALF the battery life of the original firmware (14 hours stock vs ~7 hours rockbox). This is the only thing holding me back. 

 My nano has the newest software updates indicated by iTunes. It still freezes!

 BTW, how do people solder huge gauge wires with lots of strands to tiny iPod pins? First I group the 20+ strands and tin them. I then just heat up the strands and stick the pin in the middle of the bunch of strands with the strands bunched up as much as possible. I wonder how ALO does it especially with so many wires.


----------



## iQEM

3 pins, you mean pins 2,3 & 4 right Christine ?! is it matters if i pick pin 1 instead of pin 2 ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 aha, same thought as i do for the DIYlod...using more lil' wires strand to hold the pins, the caps and the real big wires from interconnect cable...


----------



## ruZZ.il

You should remove all the unused pins in the dock to begin with, it'll be easier to work worth and supposedly reduce some in interference. Anyway, multiple strand wires can pe "shrunk" by exposing lets say 0.1" of strands then cuttings about half(or whatever) of them down to lats say only 0.03" bare so you're left with only 5 or 6 strands, then tin the wire so it'll ensure good solid contact to all the strands. use little bits of heat shrink that you put on te wire before to ensure the wires don't touch each other when they're so close inside the dock connector..

 pin 1 as mentioned is internally connected to pin 2, so I assume their use is interchangeable.

 (Also note that some site count the pins from a different size, so if you were looking here for example, you'd be using pins 23, 78, 29/30. )


----------



## KoKoKrunch

I managed to get someone who had the iMod to lend it to me for some listening, but I could only find a few songs I know on his iPod. He was in a rush as well so I couldn't listen for long. My impression is that, the iMod has very very slightly deeper midrange and bass than mine, however it was quite an unfair comparison considering he probably has his music on lossless and mine on 192 kbps. Also, cause he was rushing off, I wasn't really in a right state of mind to do a calm comparison, I might be wrong because the difference I heard was so so so small. And i only clocked about 130 hours of burn in, when supposedly supposed to go for 200... I will definitely do a comparison again. But overall, my verdict is that iMod's reviews are mostly over-exaggerated.

 He listened to my mod as well, his feedback is that the bass although not as powerful as the one from headphone out, it is more controlled and the clarity is better(which is expected because the headphone out is known not to have exceptional clarity). However, comparing hp out to dock line out, I would say, like most people do that the hp out on 4G iPod is already good as compared to those new gens, so the rather inaudible difference that I am hearing in terms of SQ might be explained by that probably.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should remove all the unused pins in the dock to begin with, it'll be easier to work worth and supposedly reduce some in interference. Anyway, multiple strand wires can pe "shrunk" by exposing lets say 0.1" of strands then cuttings about half(or whatever) of them down to lats say only 0.03" bare so you're left with only 5 or 6 strands, then tin the wire so it'll ensure good solid contact to all the strands. use little bits of heat shrink that you put on te wire before to ensure the wires don't touch each other when they're so close inside the dock connector..

 pin 1 as mentioned is internally connected to pin 2, so I assume their use is interchangeable.

 (Also note that some site count the pins from a different size, so if you were looking here for example, you'd be using pins 23, 78, 29/30. )_

 

yes, are there any other site than ipodlinux to check dock_connector pins to use ?


----------



## ruZZ.il

Apple iPod dock interface pinout @ pinouts.ru, Notice that these here are noted in the reverse order than the one at ipodlinux. I use the one at ipodlinux cause of the pic of the dock I got used to looking at.. but they're probably basically the same thing.


----------



## wgr73

CA: Your doing the right thing by tinning the wires first. I really don't see the benefit in using such big gauge wire. Its not like the ipod produces that much current...so its kind of an overkill, but there will be people who 'hear' the difference so I'm gonna stop before I make enemies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!! But yes, you are on the right track. What I tend to do is put the wires on the side instead of directly on top of the small pins. This usually helps out quite a bit.


----------



## joneeboi

Pins 1 and 2 are identical, so you can use either or both. I know I said to use pin 1 because it's "farther" from the audio pins, but looking at the dock connector, both are just beside the other, so it makes even less difference which one you choose.

 KoKo:

 I agree with you about the iMod reviews. I think people are exaggerating the improvement in sound quality, though it may very well be there. At the very least, it's an interesting concept, and I'm just glad I could do it for so cheap. I wonder if anyone will be going to the National meet and doing any comparos. Oh, what a controversy that would be.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I managed to get someone who had the iMod to lend it to me for some listening, but I could only find a few songs I know on his iPod. He was in a rush as well so I couldn't listen for long. My impression is that, the iMod has very very slightly deeper midrange and bass than mine, however it was quite an unfair comparison considering he probably has his music on lossless and mine on 192 kbps. Also, cause he was rushing off, I wasn't really in a right state of mind to do a calm comparison, I might be wrong because the difference I heard was so so so small. And i only clocked about 130 hours of burn in, when supposedly supposed to go for 200... I will definitely do a comparison again. But overall, my verdict is that iMod's reviews are mostly over-exaggerated.

 He listened to my mod as well, his feedback is that the bass although not as powerful as the one from headphone out, it is more controlled and the clarity is better(which is expected because the headphone out is known not to have exceptional clarity). However, comparing hp out to dock line out, I would say, like most people do that the hp out on 4G iPod is already good as compared to those new gens, so the rather inaudible difference that I am hearing in terms of SQ might be explained by that probably._

 


 KoKo, I was thinking...what size caps did you use again? If it was a smaller value then his iMods 47uF, then that may have been why you are hearing less bass in comparison. It may be that, or like you said it could be the way your files are encoded.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I wonder if anyone will be going to the National meet and doing any comparos. *Oh, what a controversy that would be.*_

 

Oh boy, you got that right!!


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apple iPod dock interface pinout @ pinouts.ru, Notice that these here are noted in the reverse order than the one at ipodlinux. I use the one at ipodlinux cause of the pic of the dock I got used to looking at.. but they're probably basically the same thing._

 

thx for the URL...yes, i'm pretty sure now that my dock had the right pins...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CA: Your doing the right thing by tinning the wires first. I really don't see the benefit in using such big gauge wire. Its not like the ipod produces that much current...so its kind of an overkill, but there will be people who 'hear' the difference so I'm gonna stop before I make enemies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!! But yes, you are on the right track. What I tend to do is put the wires on the side instead of directly on top of the small pins. This usually helps out quite a bit._

 

it's help alot than using directly from the big gauge wire to pins...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_KoKo, I was thinking...what size caps did you use again? If it was a smaller value then his iMods 47uF, then that may have been why you are hearing less bass in comparison. It may be that, or like you said it could be the way your files are encoded.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

i use the 22uF, so it's gonna be less bass to than RWA iMod ?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh boy, you got that right!!_

 

x2...


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Same as RWA, 47uf. RWA uses Cryogenic wires though, which again, shouldn't make much of a difference... zzz

 i think it might be the file encoding and burn in time that's making the difference I hear.


----------



## powertoold

If you leave capacitor leads exposed like in CAvanessa's dock, do you need to worry about signal interference?


----------



## wgr73

True, that could be it...then again you should probably give it a better listen!


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you leave capacitor leads exposed like in CAvanessa's dock, do you need to worry about signal interference?_

 

You do, but at the length she left it, I still wouldn't worry about it. [What with all the vampires she's using, she has bigger things to worry about, like static buildup and odd looks on the bus.]

 And KoKoKrunch, congrats on being the 500th [post]. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [And congrats to powertoold for having the 500th reply.] Let's keep a good thing going.


----------



## ishtob

haha.. this thread is going on forever!

 has anyone tried to mod the nano fatties?


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You do, but at the length she left it, I still wouldn't worry about it. [What with all the vampires she's using, she has bigger things to worry about, like static buildup and odd looks on the bus.]

 And KoKoKrunch, congrats on being the 500th [post]. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [And congrats to powertoold for having the 500th reply.] Let's keep a good thing going._

 

I think they would look at VVS more than they would look at me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Althugh his music would sound so good that he would be too phased out to notice.

 My "rig" is for home use only. The PK3/Nano are for portable use.

 BTW how should I Prevent signal distortion in my cap? Shorten the leads? Elecctrical tape the leads?


----------



## ruZZ.il

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW how should I Prevent signal distortion in my cap? Shorten the leads? Electrical tape the leads?_

 

There probably isn't any noticeable interference from that set up.. electrical tape wouldn't make a difference though, not to an electromagnetic field. the best thing you could do is orient the wires so they're parallel as little as possible, like one orientated along a y axis, another along an x axis.. though honestly, these voltages at these frequencies with that much space isn't too much of a concern.. I'd waste my time on other stuff. (I'm assuming the recommendation to remove the unused pins in the dock are to minimize higher frequency interference from the data pins, etc.. distortion is another issue, and I wouldn't worry too much about it now either.. (it would be on the line of using inductors in parallel to your outputs to balance phase distortion, for instance..)..


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Arghh - my Nano randomly freezes! It's so irritating as it froze three times today while I'm burning-in the BGs. I don't think it's the diyMod's fault as google shows that this is a common problem.

 Does anyone else have this problem? 

 After reading some V-cap dock impressions, I have decided to sell the remainder of my BG caps and supplies to get some Soniccaps (hey, I'm a poor graduate student. I can't afford the V-caps). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will enclose the caps in a plastic enclosure from Radioshack or a larger mint-tin I have. No fancy stuff here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually had some random freezing with my diyMod 4G, but it went away after the battery ran out and I recharged it. Another alternative is to RockBox your nano._

 

i think i had the same freeze problem as you guys...but there's a chance to fix this problem and i already downgrade the software to version 1.0 myself (do on my Mac)...i'll report if i found any problem like on version 1.3.1...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Code:


```
[left]http://forums.ipodhacks.com/showthread.php?t=813[/left]
```

Goodluck ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 note:
 here's a screenshot for my ipod that detected on iTunes after downgrading the software...


----------



## joneeboi

Reading around quickly, the recommendation seems to be to just reset the iPod. Toggle the hold, reset it by holding the menu and select buttons. They also say restoring the iPod can help. Does anyone else have this recurring problem? Mine seems to have gone away. Actually it wasn't freezing on me, it just kept pausing. Apple has "The 5 Rs for iPods": Reset, retry, restart, reinstall, restore. Follow the link for more information.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Haha, 500th post. Joneeboi still thinking of making a webbie for this?


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the link, pcyl. That seems like a pretty safe source to get your batteries from if eBay doesn't work out. I find the prices to be quite more expensive than eBay, but I added it to the original post anyway. Someone will find it helpful._

 


 but this battery supply with one year warrent from the date of purchase


----------



## threEchelon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ishtob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_haha.. this thread is going on forever!

 has anyone tried to mod the nano fatties?_

 

The nano fatty will not be modded for the same reasons that the ipod classic will not be modded.


----------



## joneeboi

pcyl:

 As great as the one year warranty is, you won't need it. You take out the old battery, you put in the new battery, it's done. If you want to still get it, that's alright too.

 As for the iPod nano 3G and iPod classic, they can very well be diyModded and may theoretically be one of the easiest to do.

 Chip and caps on the left, pins on the right. Unless I'm missing something, then that's the job.






 This side is where the board meets the face plate, so it will also have the diyMod 5G groove in the click wheel. Use tiny wires.


----------



## wgr73

Hmm, I wonder what Vinnie saw then? Why would he not mod it?


----------



## ishtob

This is just a wild guess, but maybe it's cause the aluminum front cover of the classic is almost impossible to open without damaging the back plate since the latches on the side of the front cover are also made of aluminum. (I recked a back cover replacing my classic's back with the U2 video's)


----------



## wgr73

Oh, ok.


----------



## powertoold

For the 1G Nano dock version, do you need a ground wire or does that come out of the dock? Also, after wiring for the dock (like in the pictures), you would simply need to make a normal line-out dock and then connect the dock to some caps somehow? 

 Is it possible to make a normal line-out dock, then connect the mini to an enclosure with the caps like this MKII Frankenstein dock by EFN:


----------



## ruZZ.il

powertoold: You basically answered all your own questions right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 you take the ground from the dock line out ground. The somehow that the you talk about is basically caps in series with the signal, so either in the dock, out the dock, anywhere.. but in series with the signal.. so it would be, say for the right channel: [Rout]--> [+CAP-]--> [+H.P R-]-->[Gnd] and if you're using a non polarized cap it wouldn't matter which was the cap is..


----------



## powertoold

Does anyone know why Kokokrunch's universal dock adapter has an additional ground connection at pin 16? I thought USB plugs are only 4 conductor. 

 Also, how can you use the UI to play music while charging and syncing with a universal dock adapter? Doesn't the iPod switch to charging/usb mode once you connect the usb? 

 Here is the reference link:

DIY-Universal Dock Adaptor!!! The BADock!!!


----------



## joneeboi

I see four conductors. Pin 16, the brown wire, is USB GND, so it makes sense that he uses it.






 And while plugging the iPod into the computer via USB does send it into docking mode, you can eject the iPod through iTunes so that the USB still provides voltage to the iPod, allowing it to charge. That's one possibility. The other is that he uses a wall wart that adapts to USB instead of the Firewire ones that used to ship with iPods. Those cost a pretty penny, but it's still a possibility.


----------



## powertoold

Isn't the black wire the USB GND wire? If you look at the picture, you can see the black wire behind all the others.


----------



## joneeboi

What do you know? There is another wire there. I don't see it connected anywhere though. One could be the ground for the USB jack's body. Like on the Alien DAC, there are four connectors on the USB jack, but the casing has to also be soldered to ground as well. I believe the one soldered to pin 16 is the ground connection for the information side of the USB, but also the black wire could be the body ground.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Haha! That's my improvised dock! I can't remember clearly now. But I know there were 2 grounds I had to solder to... I think it's the USB ground and just the uhhh ground from the iPod i think, forgot already, but I'm quite sure there are 2 grounds to solder to


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see four conductors. Pin 16, the brown wire, is USB GND, so it makes sense that he uses it.

 And while plugging the iPod into the computer via USB does send it into docking mode, you can eject the iPod through iTunes so that the USB still provides voltage to the iPod, allowing it to charge. That's one possibility. The other is that he uses a wall wart that adapts to USB instead of the Firewire ones that used to ship with iPods. Those cost a pretty penny, but it's still a possibility._

 

i c...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but why my DIY data cable STILL didn't work ? what pins to use for USB cabledata anyway ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isn't the black wire the USB GND wire? If you look at the picture, you can see the black wire behind all the others._

 

but 1 ground for USB cabledata is enough, isn't it ?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you know? There is another wire there. I don't see it connected anywhere though. One could be the ground for the USB jack's body. Like on the Alien DAC, there are four connectors on the USB jack, but the casing has to also be soldered to ground as well. I believe the one soldered to pin 16 is the ground connection for the information side of the USB, but also the black wire could be the body ground._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha! That's my improvised dock! I can't remember clearly now. But I know there were 2 grounds I had to solder to... I think it's the USB ground and just the uhhh ground from the iPod i think, forgot already, but I'm quite sure there are 2 grounds to solder to_


----------



## powertoold

Is it possible to make a dock connector that only connected to the USB power, USB ground, and the line out pins to be able to play music while the iPod is charging? I don't care about the syncing ability. All I want is to be able to make the iPod like a standalone music player without worrying about the battery life.


----------



## ruZZ.il

I assume you would need 5 wires: GND, R, L for audio and GND, 5V+ for power. Looking here, those would be 2, 3, 4 for audio and 16, 23 for power respectively. Anyone correct of verify me freely. (I'm sure you could easily google "DIY ipod charger" and figure the charging bit out...but I gotta run out..)

 P.S: The audio GND and power GND are not internally connected, and should be kept isolated! ie, don't mix them up or interchange their use.


----------



## powertoold

So if I did that, would the iPod not go into Dock Mode once I connected the USB?


----------



## vvs_75

here is pins numbering for usb cable connector:

Image:IPod dock connector 032.jpg - wikiPodLinux

Dock Connector - wikiPodLinux


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_










_

 

The picture jonee used of the audio line out cum USB charge connection was the one that I did DIY-Universal Dock Adaptor!!! The BADock!!! And yes there are 5 pins you have to solder to... 

 @ powertoold: If you want that, you need to get an external charger dock. That's what I do.


----------



## iQEM

vvs_75:
 thx mate, i already use that pins BUT after it finish, i test connect it to PC and pair to my nano...whenever i plug it to PC comes a pop up says "USB device not detected" or something like that...it happens all the time...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what have i do wrong ?

 KoKoKrunch:
 yup, that my "not cheap" wall charger are just like yours BADock...the 30 pins connected to 1 pcb inside the dock...


----------



## CAvanessia

What's the best way to burn in these caps? Right now I have my Nano playing on repeat and the setup is plugged into an amp that is off. 

 Is there an easier way to burn these in without my nano? I don't have a Cd player, but I have a laptop that I leave on all the time.


----------



## ruZZ.il

I'm not sure how well they'll burn in without having any load on them.. but repeat on an playlist of the kind of music you listen to should get it done. If you'd like to, try find some pink or white noise ( I think the pink noise is better, it's dispersed logarithmically which is more effective with sound, if I remember correctly and am not mistaken.) The noise gives a good smoothing out to harshness and stuff.. Also, keep in mind BGs will deteriorate in sound at some point sounding dull before truly blossoming...


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_vvs_75:
 thx mate, i already use that pins BUT after it finish, i test connect it to PC and pair to my nano...whenever i plug it to PC comes a pop up says "USB device not detected" or something like that...it happens all the time...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what have i do wrong ?_

 


 Try to connect your nano with normal cable. If it's ok then may be you mixed up something. Could you post some pics?


----------



## joneeboi

I never thought this thread would turn into a general iPod DIY thread, but here's what I found on Google anyway.

I-Hacked.com Taking Advantage Of Technology - DIY AC-USB Charger

-=iPod Shuffle Hack=-

how-to: 'usb battery' v2 - Hack a Day

 It seems all you need to connect is V+ and V- for any type of USB charging.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the best way to burn in these caps? Right now I have my Nano playing on repeat and the setup is plugged into an amp that is off. 

 Is there an easier way to burn these in without my nano? I don't have a Cd player, but I have a laptop that I leave on all the time._

 

nice progress, Christine...me ? have to buy 30 AWG or more to re-bypass all inside my Nano...the battery life make me down...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i really had to order new battery for it though...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure how well they'll burn in without having any load on them.. but repeat on an playlist of the kind of music you listen to should get it done. If you'd like to, try find some pink or white noise ( I think the pink noise is better, it's dispersed logarithmically which is more effective with sound, if I remember correctly and am not mistaken.) The noise gives a good smoothing out to harshness and stuff.. Also, keep in mind BGs will deteriorate in sound at some point sounding dull before truly blossoming..._

 

oh ? pink & white noise does the burn-in too, like on a new pair burn-in ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try to connect your nano with normal cable. If it's ok then may be you mixed up something. Could you post some pics?_

 

silly me, it's look i had solder wrong cable to the pins...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sorry for the trouble...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I never thought this thread would turn into a general iPod DIY thread, but here's what I found on Google anyway.

I-Hacked.com Taking Advantage Of Technology - DIY AC-USB Charger

-=iPod Shuffle Hack=-

how-to: 'usb battery' v2 - Hack a Day

 It seems all you need to connect is V+ and V- for any type of USB charging._

 

thx Jon...


----------



## wgr73

haha, we should kind of stay on topic. LOL, thanks for saying it in a nice way jon


----------



## joneeboi

Nah, I didn't mean it that way. We're all here to help each other, so let's just keep that rolling instead of worrying about the technicalities.


----------



## CAvanessia

I feel like most of us are almost done with our diyMods. It's that "sit back, relax, and talk about anything" time after a job well done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm looking for the ultimate set up for caps, so I don't have to tinker with stuff after real school starts. I've been reading reviews on Obbligato caps from diyhifisupply and Sonicaps. Both brands have really good reviews from google and from a few headfiers and are really affordable.

 BTW, I would advise against untested/generic iPod batteries. The battery I got was not the same size as the OEM one. It was thicker and had a smaller width. It's so thick that its resting uncomfortably close on some parts of the board. I say stick with OEM batteries!


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel like most of us are almost done with our diyMods. It's that "sit back, relax, and talk about anything" time after a job well done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's what I'm finding. I hope people are still taking on the diyMod. Anyone who has accomplished the mod, please let us know and share pictures. The myriad of configurations will be encouragement to those who are still figuring out a way to fit caps into the iPod video. If anything, I have some spare caps with which I could perform maybe 2 free diyMod 4Gs. Anyone interested can PM me.

 As for batteries, where did you get yours, Christine? I grabbed mine for cheap on eBay (and man, are they cheap), and I didn't have any problems. It's probably just you.


----------



## wgr73

Thats cool Jon. It can get of topic quick though, but its your thread you call the shots!


----------



## CAvanessia

I got mine from ebay also. It had a shorter width than the OEM battery. If it was slightly slightly smaller I could fit the 0.47uf caps on the side of the battery. That's something to think about if you could find a battery that is not as wide as OEM. 

 Or someone could remove the headphone jack to fit the caps.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone knew what specs does the ALO Vcaps have? I'm planning to do something like that in the near future with cheaper alternative but good caps as well


----------



## joneeboi

You could ask him or anyone who bought a portable VCap dock. I figure you could just buy their 1.0uF 250VDC cap and use that. It's the cheapest and will work fine.

 The sound is really opening up on my BGed Millett Hybrid MAX and diyMod 4G setup. I feel really immersed in the music, and the bass has finally solidified. I don't know how long this sound sig will last, but it's a nice balance.


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone knew what specs does the ALO Vcaps have? I'm planning to do something like that in the near future with cheaper alternative but good caps as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

In the ALO-sponsored forum section, there is a post of a dissected VCap special edition dock. To answer your question, ALO used 4.7uf caps. They also used VCAP 0.1uf teflon caps as a bypass (optional).

 How are the bypass caps hooked up with the two primary caps? I think I'm going with Sonicap Gen I as primary caps and using 0.1uf Sonicap Gen II as bypass. 

 Would it be: input left -> positive lead of primary for left -> positive lead of bypass left then negative lead of left to output left?


 Any help is appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

I don't really get what you mean by bypass caps. Where are we supposed to have them?


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine from ebay also. It had a shorter width than the OEM battery. If it was slightly slightly smaller I could fit the 0.47uf caps on the side of the battery. That's something to think about if you could find a battery that is not as wide as OEM. 

 Or someone could remove the headphone jack to fit the caps._

 

point 1 are nice to figure out, but removing headphone jack ?! it's a no-no for me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 after i change the bypass cable to something smaller (in size) now my new lcd are work properly now but i had a new problem, my clickwheel hadn't working at all...lol silly me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my dock+caps to RCA are ready though, well i use RCA interconnect for a test...before a made my own CMOYamp, then i'll move the dock+caps to normal connector to amping...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 here are my latest picts to my progress now...


----------



## ruZZ.il

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How are the bypass caps hooked up with the two primary caps?_

 

In parallel.


----------



## joneeboi

The Basics - Bypass Capacitors

ecp.cc

 From what I gather, you send the signal from the DAC to the amp in series with paralleled caps, each bypassing the other. One size is optimized for higher frequencies and the other is for lower frequencies.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Lol I'm really confused... will any one be kind enough to draw me a circuit to exactly how I am supposed to do it??? From the 3.5mm input jack to the output jack???


----------



## joneeboi

Try this out. CLb and CRb are the bypass (or CLa and CRa, whichever you prefer). Let one set be the 47uF BGs or equivalent high quality caps, and let the other set be the ~0.1uF bypass caps. As for input and output jacks, you can put them wherever you like, as long as the circuit looks the same.


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try this out. CLb and CRb are the bypass (or CLa and CRa, whichever you prefer). Let one set be the 47uF BGs or equivalent high quality caps, and let the other set be the ~0.1uF bypass caps. As for input and output jacks, you can put them wherever you like, as long as the circuit looks the same.




_

 


 Cool - basically just put the caps in parallel. In the thread I read, the 4.7uf caps were in the "driving seat" and the 0.1uf caps were the bypass. How does this setup differentiate between the caps or is it just some electrical thing we don't have to worry about?


----------



## RCM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does this setup differentiate between the caps or is it just some electrical thing we don't have to worry about?_

 

My thoughts exactly-can some of the signal escape the teflon cap and make it through the bigger cap without passing through the teflon cap? Would it not be better to put them in series with the teflon v-cap hooked up between the larger cap and the amp as a sort of staggered filtering system? 

 Hey-I'm admittedly electrically challenged!

 I've got a set of 6.8uf V-caps on the way and was looking to add some teflons to the mix as well...


----------



## joneeboi

At this point, you start getting deeper into the tweaking bit, balancing between the treble and bass with the quality of brands and combination of cap sizes. Since you're going the route of external casing for the caps, you don't have to worry about real estate. If you do decide to go that route, let us know how it goes.


----------



## joneeboi

The bigger cap manages the lower frequencies and the smaller ones take care of the higher frequencies.


----------



## Jambo

Having several caps in parallel for AC coupling is a new one on me. I would have thought that you would introduce more non-linearities than you would remove...


----------



## joneeboi

What kind of nonlinearities were you referring to, Jambo? It seems to me that it's more of a stability issue than sound. Surely, the sound will be affected and some will describe the sound to have such and such quality, but I mean that the sound would follow the improved technical, specification side of the electronics. I'd imagine it being much like the Driver Number Wars we seem to have between the IEM manufacturers of late. Shure came out with another triple driver, UE released the triple.fi and Westone projected their 3. All the while Etymotic hasn't changed their stance from a single driver philosophy (how long has it been, 15 years?), maintaining that the crossovers in the multi-driver IEMS take away from the sound. Following the analogy, some would say the more paralleled caps, the better; the link up there has a picture of three bypass caps.






 It inevitably comes down to your personal design philosophy; do you prefer to delegate work or do you prefer a single task-accomplisher accomplishing tasks? As I mentioned earlier, one argument against paralleling so many caps is the issue of limited space. Since not too much is taking up the ALO VCap dock, vvs_75's Sonicap dock or CAvanessia's BG NX dock, you could experiment with as many bypass caps as you like. I don't think more than two would be necessary as we're only working with a 20Hz-20,000Hz bandwidth, but again, it comes down to personal choice.

 I hope I didn't spew too much garbage for those of you actually in the know. =T


----------



## Jambo

It's an interesting one, I've honestly never come across it before in coupling caps. As you point out though it is common practice in decoupling caps as in your picture. 

 The non linearities I was referring to.. Well, say for your load 4.7uF gives you your desired frequency response, if an ideal capacitor is assumed then that is all you need. 

 However, in your decoupling example, smaller caps are paralleled up with the bigger caps as they tend to have lower ESR and ESL and will perform better at higher frequencies. In other words, you're compensating for parasitics. What you're trying to do is compensate for the non linearities of one cap by adding another one. The range of frequencies you want to cope with in decoupling is in theory infinite, and how linearly you do this isn't all that crucial. Unless loading an LDO or something else that can go unstable, pretty much every cap you can add is a bonus.

 To apply this to AC coupling, I would say that in order to make that work you would want a very accurate model of the caps that you are using that you could simulate and see what happens. My point is that if you weren't careful about it, you could easily introduce more non-linearity than you already had by adding two different capacitances, ESLs and ESRs, and that this is a problem this time since it is in the signal path.

 By all means though, experiment and see what you can hear, and if anyone can experiment with this on an audio analyser I'd be interested in seeing the results. I just know for a fact that this is not common practice and I figure there must be a reason for it.

 As you point out, the audio bandwidth is not very big so I really doubt whether any difference would be audible so long as your main cap was of decent quality.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Hey thanks for the diagram jonee, I kinda figured out something like that after reading up more, but still needed to confirm!


----------



## powertoold

Adding a cap probably does produce more non-linearities, but those aberrations could have a smaller standard deviation.


----------



## Jambo

Something I also meant to mention is that some small caps (eg ceramics with certain dielectrics) have a capacitance that varies with voltage, you really don't want to put them near the signal path.


----------



## Johannes Freed

Anyone done the 2G Nano yet?


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_point 1 are nice to figure out, but removing headphone jack ?! it's a no-no for me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 after i change the bypass cable to something smaller (in size) now my new lcd are work properly now but i had a new problem, my clickwheel hadn't working at all...lol silly me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my dock+caps to RCA are ready though, well i use RCA interconnect for a test...before a made my own CMOYamp, then i'll move the dock+caps to normal connector to amping...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 here are my latest picts to my progress now..._

 

sorry to interrupt all...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 please, my clickwheel only work when i assemble the PCB from logicboard/case...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 everytime i put it back to the case the clickwheel stop working, and i'm 100% sure the ribbon/flex cable was fine, not slip off or something like it cos i had lock the key that hold the flex cable...i had try to use some piece of paper too, that ussually used for fix HDD problem but wont work either...it seems the doubletape that hold clickwheel cover didn't sticky well anymore, is it cause the clickwheel problem ?


----------



## joneeboi

Johannes Freed:

 None that I've seen so far. I assume someone must have since we've already hit 23k views, so of the hundred or so that actually own a nano 2G, at least one person must have tried it. Plus they're holding out on us by not sharing the results. Care to give it a shot and report it to us? Doubtless, you've read my discourse on how one might approach the diyMod nano 2G on the original post, and it's a fairly low risk you're taking by attempting it. wgr73 has a nano 2G IIRC, but he hasn't reported anything.

 iQEM:

 Since your click wheel works when your nano is open, the problem occurs when you close it up. I had the exact same problem with my nano, and all I had to do was make sure that the ribbon was secure before I closed it. Try jamming a small folded up piece of paper on the opposite side of the ribbon's contacts. If memory serves, the contacts face the front of the iPod, so jam the paper on the backside of the ribbon, if that makes sense. Make sure it's secure, and carefully close up your nano and see if it works.


----------



## wgr73

Yo Jon, im out of town right now. Plus im still debating, not quite sure if im going to try to mod the 2G yet. If I do i'll def post back, thats for sure!


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM:

 Since your click wheel works when your nano is open, the problem occurs when you close it up. I had the exact same problem with my nano, and all I had to do was make sure that the ribbon was secure before I closed it. Try jamming a small folded up piece of paper on the opposite side of the ribbon's contacts. If memory serves, the contacts face the front of the iPod, so jam the paper on the backside of the ribbon, if that makes sense. Make sure it's secure, and carefully close up your nano and see if it works._

 

oh, i c...then i'll try it at home right away, thx anyway for the help Jon...


----------



## iQEM

one more thing, i plan to buy a bigger capacity for my nano as well...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this one an non genuine one 3.7V 1600mAh...

 if one of you insterest you can check on:
  Code:


```
[left]http://www.ipmart.com/main/product/Replacement,battery,for,iPod,1st,Generation,13914.php?in=0&find=ipod%201st%20G%20battery&prod=13914[/left]
```

one question, is it safe tio use non genuine battery ?


----------



## cfcubed

Maybe this is a dumb question but I just got my hands on a 40GB 3G victim that needs a batt & I'm planning to iMod it (thanks in large part to this thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Could one get *most* of the sonic benefits of this mod by just "replacing" the wimpy SMD coupling caps (3G's C13/C16) with nice caps like the BGs? IOW did anyone try just that?

 I'm was planning on including the resistors per the Wolfson spec for high impedance (e.g. using a SOHA) & wanted to avoid hijacking the headphone jack, pigtailing, etc. Not sure relative merits of SMD cap replacement & SMD resistors & PCB traces to lineout.

 TIA for any ideas about this...


----------



## infinite

great work! awesome!

 maybe a dumb question:
 is there any possibilty to get a nice quality line-*in*?

 i checked the ipodlinux website and 3rd offers line in, but quality isnt that good..

 are there any possibilities?

 infinite


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cfcubed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...I'm planning to iMod it..._

 

For the record, we ought not to say that we are iModding these iPods. iMod is specific in its implementation in that it covers only the 4G and 5G/5.5G iPods. In the 4G, it converts the headphone jack into a line out and the dock's signal is disabled. In the 5G, the signal is sent to the dock and an ALO dock is required to operate it. I don't think I've mentioned this before, though if you read carefully through all my posts I make a concerted effort to not refer to our modding as "iModding." We are diyModding. I don't mean to rip you up personally, cfcubed, it just had to be said in general.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cfcubed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Could one get *most* of the sonic benefits of this mod by just "replacing" the wimpy SMD coupling caps (3G's C13/C16) with nice caps like the BGs? IOW did anyone try just that?_

 

I don't see how this is different from what everyone's been doing this entire time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cfcubed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm was planning on including the resistors per the Wolfson spec for high impedance (e.g. using a SOHA) & wanted to avoid hijacking the headphone jack, pigtailing, etc. Not sure relative merits of SMD cap replacement & SMD resistors & PCB traces to lineout._

 

Are you saying you're planning on using the dock for the signal? If you are, you could take some nice, hi-res, macro shots of the inductors before the dock so future 3G diyModders can have some idea of where to go.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_great work! awesome!

 maybe a dumb question:
 is there any possibilty to get a nice quality line-*in*?

 i checked the ipodlinux website and 3rd offers line in, but quality isnt that good..

 are there any possibilities?

 infinite_

 

What I'm guessing you can do is bypass the internal preamp and send the wires straight from the line in pins to the dock. Using your own high quality preamp, you can make some sort of line in dock (LID) to hook up to your iPod. If you have a LOD you can take apart or build, you can relocate the LO pins to the LI pins which are right next in line in terms of pin order. What would you be using your line-in for?


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_one more thing, i plan to buy a bigger capacity for my nano as well...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this one an non genuine one 3.7V 1600mAh...check this out !






 if one of you insterest you can check on:
http://www.ipmart.com/main/product/R...ery&prod=13914

 one question, is it safe tio use non genuine battery ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm sure as long as the battery meets the required specifications, genuine or not is irrelevant. I'm just wondering how you think you'll fit that battery into the nano. Are you going to tape it to the back?


----------



## CAvanessia

iQEM, I think that battery is for the 1st gen big iPods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You could route the battery on the outside, try to fix some small BGs at the spot where the battery was, and route the signal to the headphone out. This wouldn't increase the size by that much.

 Jon, have you messed with your iPod mini yet? I might be able to buy one off my friend for dirt cheap since he has 5 iPods.


----------



## infinite

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I'm guessing you can do is bypass the internal preamp and send the wires straight from the line in pins to the dock. Using your own high quality preamp, you can make some sort of line in dock (LID) to hook up to your iPod. If you have a LOD you can take apart or build, you can relocate the LO pins to the LI pins which are right next in line in terms of pin order. What would you be using your line-in for?_

 

thanks for your answer. do you know the pins to bypass the preamp?

 i would like to use it for recording, of course sind ipodlinux supports that (a bit of proof of concept..)

 infinite


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the record, we ought not to say that we are iModding these iPods. <snip>_

 

Oopsie... Agreed. A true iMod offers more (professional work, warranty, etc. - Much as discussed in other threads re: commercial headamps vs DIYs).
 I'd amend my post but then your reply/scolding would look funny
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ <snip>
 I don't see how this is different from what everyone's been doing this entire time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Are you saying you're planning on using the dock for the signal? If you are, you could take some nice, hi-res, macro shots of the inductors before the dock so future 3G diyModders can have some idea of where to go._

 

Perhaps I need to research more, but based on 3G pic in the OP it *looks* like C13 & C16 are coupling caps (IOW, the SMD couplers from the image here ).
 Not sure if there are more components in stock 3G lineout circuit than the 3x2 SMD ones coming off pins 16 & 17 in that pic. If there were no other stock components there I was thinking I'd just remove C13 & C16 then wire BGs in their place (no new resistors, lineout jack, etc.). 

 This threads gotten so long so I'm not sure but it *seems* like most mods involve replacing the route from the new coupling caps to a lineout (e.g. re-wired headphone jack or pigtail). I'm thinking a total of 2 caps & 4 wires (to both orig coupling cap pads) as the whole mod (leaving SMD resistors in path, etc.)
 Again, so much info here I could certainly be the one confused


----------



## joneeboi

CAvanessia:

 I haven't done anything to the iPod mini since the biggest compact flash card I have is 128MB, and the iPod won't connect to the computer. If you open it up, you can immediately identify the target caps, but I will take pictures for convenience.

 infinite:

 Which iPod are you looking at? I posted all the datasheets of the known Wolfsons on the OP.

 cfcubed:

 From what I understand, you want to leave the rest of the path untouched save for replacing the coupling caps with BGs. I can't guarantee what kind of sound improvement/change you'll have, but I wouldn't recommend traveling your path. What you're doing is passing a "high quality signal" from the BG through the muddy waters of the rest of the weak amplifier circuit we've all been trying to bypass. Think of the newbie audiophile pairing a $1000 CD player with $10 headphones. He spent so many dollars just to have the purity of the signal crushed anyway. You have so many weak links in your chain (SMD resistors, cheap opamp stage, etc.) that it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble. I can't identify the line out dock pins in the iPodlinux 3G PCB images, but if you can find them, you should do it. Then again, I found desoldering the inductors in the 4G iPod pretty intimidating, but it can still be done with loads of patience and confidence.


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<snip>
 cfcubed:

 From what I understand, you want to leave the rest of the path untouched save for replacing the coupling caps with BGs. I can't guarantee what kind of sound improvement/change you'll have, but I wouldn't recommend traveling your path. What you're doing is passing a "high quality signal" from the BG through the muddy waters of the rest of the weak amplifier circuit we've all been trying to bypass. Think of the newbie audiophile pairing a $1000 CD player with $10 headphones. He spent so many dollars just to have the purity of the signal crushed anyway. You have so many weak links in your chain (SMD resistors, cheap opamp stage, etc.) that it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble. I can't identify the line out dock pins in the iPodlinux 3G PCB images, but if you can find them, you should do it. Then again, I found desoldering the inductors in the 4G iPod pretty intimidating, but it can still be done with loads of patience and confidence._

 

Yes, that's what I *was* thinking... Good points, I guess I'll go the full route.

 Thanks for the quick & thorough response.
 Regards,
 Chris


----------



## vvs_75

I am waiting for parts for my next gen ultimate S-Cap dock so I decided to rework my ipod.

 I updated my original post here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3551999-post391.html


----------



## powertoold

Wow vvs, there are no impressions on the sound?!? Is it better than the simpler two Sonicap dock?


----------



## joneeboi

That's some amazing work, vvs_75. I really like how you fit the nano into the Hammond. What parts are you waiting for?


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's some amazing work, vvs_75. I really like how you fit the nano into the Hammond. What parts are you waiting for?_

 


 Thanks!
 Small value sonicaps to bypass big ones. I am pretty much making ALO LE but with USB jack for charging and transferring data.


 Here are pictures of an LE ALO V-Cap Dock.

RapidShare: 1-Click Webhosting


----------



## CAvanessia

good job, VVS_75! Impressions would be great too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 relative to the sonicaps.

 edit: just saw your reply. I ordered 4.7uf sonicap gen I's and 0.1uf gen IIs yesterday. I made my case before I left for school. All I need to do is just solder a few leads hopefully. =)


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow vvs, there are no impressions on the sound?!? Is it better than the simpler two Sonicap dock?_

 

It sounds not bad at all! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is it better than Sonicap dock? We'll see. It’s BG so they need forever to settle down!


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good job, VVS_75! Impressions would be great too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 relative to the sonicaps.

 edit: just saw your reply. I ordered 4.7uf sonicap gen I's and 0.1uf gen IIs yesterday. I made my case before I left for school. All I need to do is just solder a few leads hopefully. =)_

 

Good! I just ordered mine today. Sorry forgot to let you know.


----------



## wquiles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am waiting for parts for my next gen ultimate S-Cap dock so I decided to rework my ipod.

 I updated my original post here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3551999-post391.html_

 

Impressive - nice job!

 Will


----------



## joneeboi

I just looked over the iPod mini, and I can't find where the line out signal goes to after the chip. Normally, the coupling caps sit right next to the Wolfson, but I don't see it anywhere around it. I tried finding it, but I'm having trouble. Maybe you guys can help me here. The line level signals come from pin 16 and 17 according to the WM8711 datasheet. I can't see where they're going. Those giant caps give us the click wheel-controlled signal. If it's too much trouble to find where those ones go, one can just replace the yellow caps and turn the click wheel volume all the way up. The left cap, C86, is the right channel, and the right cap, C87, is the left channel.


----------



## CAvanessia

Here are two pics of my enclosure. I bought it at a "dollar store" for $1.50. It's made of steel and the top slides off. Also I bought this "eyelet" tool that allowed me to make those holes. All the wires are installed permanently in the enclosure with hot glue. I left the wires extra long inside for the parts that I'm waiting for.

 I bought a pair of Nichicon (radio shack) 1000uf 50V caps for a few bucks just to try them out against the BGs. 

 Note. I know the setup is NOT for stock iPods, but I had to plug my 80gb video for the photo since my diyMod Nano was charging.








 edit: Jon, I will see if I can bum the mini from my friend and see what I can find out. Although I probably won't be much help. =D The mini uses a CF card? Interesting. I thought it was hard-drive based.


----------



## joneeboi

The iPod minis were hard-drive based (CF II), but CF I dropped in perfectly, increasing battery life by a couple hours, though to be fair, the tests in the link were done with a different battery as well. Originally they came with Seagate Microdrives, but those turned out to be rather problematic. A 16GB CF card in an iPod mini would be a pretty decent player even by today's standards. Though their ticket price may be a bit high, higher capacity cards usually end up having the best value per GB. Here's a relatively cheap one with a quick glance through Google.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure as long as the battery meets the required specifications, genuine or not is irrelevant. I'm just wondering how you think you'll fit that battery into the nano. Are you going to tape it to the back?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM, I think that battery is for the 1st gen big iPods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You could route the battery on the outside, try to fix some small BGs at the spot where the battery was, and route the signal to the headphone out. This wouldn't increase the size by that much.

 Jon, have you messed with your iPod mini yet? I might be able to buy one off my friend for dirt cheap since he has 5 iPods._

 

ooops, i thought that was for nano 1st GEN...my mistake...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 silly me lol





 here are the right one (darn, 400mAh only)






 original link for the product:
  Code:


```
[left]http://www.ipmart.com/main/product/Replacement,battery,for,iPod,Nano,13913.php?cat=627&prod=13913[/left]
```


----------



## infinite

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_infinite:

 Which iPod are you looking at? I posted all the datasheets of the known Wolfsons on the OP._

 

i think i will go for 3rd or 5th generation since i would love to have the capacitors inside the ipod.
 hq line in AND out would be awesome..

 thanks for the datasheets, didnt see them at first.

 edit: just checked the datasheets. it seems like only mini 1G and ipod 3G is capable of line-in.. are all those wolfson comparable regarding the quality of line-out?

 infinite


----------



## infinite

mhm.. according to ipodlinux the mini 1G has the same wolfson dac as the 3G - and not the WM8711..

 so the mod should be possible with mini 1G aswell?


----------



## joneeboi

The iPodlinux site lists the WM8731, but the image above clearly indicates WM8711 in the mini. Your call.

 I checked the datasheets again, and they all have audio inputs. I don't know all that is required for a line-in, but if you check page 5 on the four datasheets, they all indicate pins for audio inputs.

 WM8731





> Pin 23 - Right Channel Line Input (AC coupled)
> Pin 24 - Left Channel Line Input (AC coupled)


WM8731





> Pin 23 - Right Channel Line Input (AC coupled)
> Pin 24 - Left Channel Line Input (AC coupled)


WM8971





> Pin 25 - Single Ended Microphone Input
> Pin 27 - Right Channel Input 1
> Pin 28 - Left Channel Input 1


WM8978





> Pin 1 - Left Mic Pre-amp positive input
> Pin 2 - Left Mic Pre-amp negative input
> Pin 4 - Right Mic Pre-amp positive input
> Pin 5 - Right Mic Pre-amp negative input
> ...


iPod pinout (thanks to Apple iPod dock interface pinout and signals @ pinouts.ru)





> Pin 5 - Line In - R (+)
> Pin 6 - Line In - L (+)


Now, I don't know if you were already aware of this and I'm just beating you over the head with the information you already have, but here it is anyway. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on the differences.

 And as for line out quality differences between models, I really couldn't tell you. I've been tweaking my system so bad it can't breastfeed our children anymore (Arrested Development anyone?), so sonically I couldn't compare them for you. Let's not even get into the subjectivity of all reviews. Just rest assured you're getting almost the best performance your DAC is giving, and the weakest links in your audio chain become the amp, headphones, cables, etc.


----------



## CAvanessia

Your system is a mole?


----------



## infinite

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The iPodlinux site lists the WM8731, but the image above clearly indicates WM8711 in the mini. Your call._

 

ok, seems you are right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my fault, sorry.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I checked the datasheets again, and they all have audio inputs. I don't know all that is required for a line-in, but if you check page 5 on the four datasheets, they all indicate pins for audio inputs.

 WM8731






			Pin 23 - Right Channel Line Input (AC coupled)
 Pin 24 - Left Channel Line Input (AC coupled)
		
Click to expand...

WM8731






			Pin 23 - Right Channel Line Input (AC coupled)
 Pin 24 - Left Channel Line Input (AC coupled)
		
Click to expand...

WM8971






			Pin 25 - Single Ended Microphone Input
 Pin 27 - Right Channel Input 1
 Pin 28 - Left Channel Input 1
		
Click to expand...

WM8978






			Pin 1 - Left Mic Pre-amp positive input
 Pin 2 - Left Mic Pre-amp negative input
 Pin 4 - Right Mic Pre-amp positive input
 Pin 5 - Right Mic Pre-amp negative input
 Pin 19 - Left Auxiliary Input
 Pin 20 - Right Auxiliary Input
		
Click to expand...

iPod pinout (thanks to Apple iPod dock interface pinout and signals @ pinouts.ru)






			Pin 5 - Line In - R (+)
 Pin 6 - Line In - L (+)
		
Click to expand...

Now, I don't know if you were already aware of this and I'm just beating you over the head with the information you already have, but here it is anyway. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on the differences._

 

thank you very much!
 some of this i knew already, but surely not all of this bunch of information.
 edit: you wrote WM8731 twice, i think one should be the WM8711?
 then i have to decide wether it should be mini 1G or ipod 3G..

 ipod mini would be my favorit because it is very solid and you are capable of using flashbased memory - you cant change the harddisk of a "normal" ipod to flash based, am i right?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And as for line out quality differences between models, I really couldn't tell you. I've been tweaking my system so bad it can't breastfeed our children anymore (Arrested Development anyone?), so sonically I couldn't compare them for you. Let's not even get into the subjectivity of all reviews. Just rest assured you're getting almost the best performance your DAC is giving, and the weakest links in your audio chain become the amp, headphones, cables, etc._

 

also thanks for this information.

 infinite


----------



## joneeboi

All we know now is that my system breastfeeds. We also know it has glass-hard nipples. I really don't know where to go from there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for putting flash drives into regular iPods,
put flash memory into (almost) ANY iPod! :: projects :: geek technique

Modding : Apple Video Ipod (5g & 5.5g) - The Compact Flash Version > Tarkan Akdam’s BORED

 Unless you find some decently priced CFs, I wouldn't bother. Nevertheless, it's still pretty cool.


----------



## infinite

well.. if you are capable of replacing the 1,8" hdd with a cf based card you have some free space to but the caps in


----------



## joneeboi

Interesting observation, infinite. Very, very interesting. If we could source the adapter, all would be well. I wonder how much room really is freed up in the iPod. The 5G video would be tricky to pull off, while the 4G already can fit the high quality caps we need. In the video, you'd have to route the wires from the front to the rear and back to the front. If you want to solder your wires straight to the pins that lie on the backside, that would solve a bit of the clearance problem. It probably wouldn't be that much of a problem with the 60GB and 80GB models. Good thinking, infinite.


----------



## joneeboi

I figured you guys deserved a better quality photo of the iPod mini's chip.


----------



## infinite

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting observation, infinite. Very, very interesting. If we could source the adapter, all would be well. I wonder how much room really is freed up in the iPod. The 5G video would be tricky to pull off, while the 4G already can fit the high quality caps we need. In the video, you'd have to route the wires from the front to the rear and back to the front. If you want to solder your wires straight to the pins that lie on the backside, that would solve a bit of the clearance problem. It probably wouldn't be that much of a problem with the 60GB and 80GB models. Good thinking, infinite._

 

np 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, to see how many space you can save check this:
Convert your 4th Gen iPod to use Flash Memory - Instructables - DIY, How To, tech, life

 this is the adapter which is used in the howto:
1.8" toshiba Hard Drive,SSD, CF to ipod IDE A05 Adaptor - eBay (item 230207818209 end time Jan-05-08 01:36:26 PST)

 a bit OT, but a very nice mod:
Add INTERNAL Bluetooth Capability To Your iPod - Instructables - DIY, How To, tech, life

 i really need an ipod 3G now...

 getting all this into a mini 1G would be even nicer, but so far i see recording via line in is with ipodlinux only supported on 3G.

 infinite


----------



## joneeboi

I really like the low cost of that iPod HDD to CF adapter. $5 plus $7 shipping isn't bad at all. My music collection sits at a measly 7GB, so maybe I could consider a 16GB flash to replace the 20GB HDD. The iPod's battery has long been its weak point, and with a CF and 1200mAh battery I put in it, I could have even better battery life. Very, very interesting. I will add it to the front page.


----------



## CAvanessia

That bluetooth link is very interesting assuming there exists good bluetooth headphones.

 Maybe you can diyMod the iPod, add an amp, and integrate the bluetooth in the system. The usual iPod+amp+headphone setup would require people to carry around a horrendously large bag, but with bluetooth you can leave the player in your backpack.


----------



## joneeboi

Etymotic Ety8, anyone? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 I like how the Bluetoothing iPodder did the CF conversion too. That frees up a lot of things. If someone could design an amp that can run off the iPod's 3.7V battery, you could end up with a pretty sweet, stock-looking iPod. And that's what we all love about it, isn't it?


----------



## infinite

+ adding a superb line in for decent recordings, that would be the ipod i want


----------



## ishtob

Have anyone see Xin's supermicro? it runs off a 1.5v AAA battery, and will most likely be able to fit inside the case of the stock ipod. might be a good amp to be placed inside, and from I heard, it sounds pretty good for something that small


----------



## barqy

hey all, i'm sure this has been asked before but....


 I have a 4th gen ipod.


 I removed the Z caps off the PCB board (C84/C86) and soldered down 2 wires respectively.

 I want to connect the newly soldered wires to the headphone jack of the ipod.


 I inserted a 3.5mm mini plug into the headphone jack, I used a DMM to figure out which is left/right, but for some reason both channels and the ground show continuity??

 edit: i do not understand why there is continuity, shouldn't the channels be seperated

 Is something wrong with my ipod jack?

 Can someone circle which should be the L/R/Gnd channels?







 thanks


----------



## joneeboi

I don't know why you're measuring continuity between channels and ground, but you ought to test with the voltmeter instead of the ohmmeter. See if it's safe to use the jack with the voltmeter; 20mV is the upper limit for safe us with headphones. Also, you can check for sound with crappy headphones to see if it works. Are you using BGs inside your iPod, or are you putting the caps in an external case, connecting with a mini-to-some kind of connector? Either way, here is the picture.


----------



## vvs_75




----------



## ishtob

shouldnt the left channel be closer to the bottom?


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ishtob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_shouldnt the left channel be closer to the bottom?_

 

In theory Yes, in this jack No


----------



## CAvanessia

I got tired of charging, playing, charging, playing, etc to burn-in my caps for the diyMod Nano. It would take forever to burn-in at this rate. I decided to make a dock similar to KokoKrunch's to play and charge at the same time, but I did not want a long usb cable attached to it.

 So I decided to attach a female USB connector to it instead. I got lucky and remembered that the dollar store close to my Uni has female to male USB cables for $1. I took one female end for the iPod dock, and soldered the two male ends together.

 It took me quite a few hours to get everything working. Here are a few hints:

 1) BUY USB 2.0 cables (i.e. not from the dollar store). Initially the iPod would not charge or get detected, but you can tell something is going on since the screen goes bright as you charge it. In my linux box, it threw a bunch of errors. A quick google shows that some USB 2.0 devices do NOT work with low-quality cables (the one I bought and most USB 1.1 cables). I will spare the details on how I got it working.

 2) Open iTunes, go to the summary of the iPod, check "manually manage music".

 3) The iPod will have the standard "do not disconnect screen". Just eject it through iTunes and it should charge and play at the same time.

 Pictures:


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In theory Yes, in this jack No 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Editing post now...


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got tired of charging, playing, charging, playing, etc to burn-in my caps for the diyMod Nano. It would take forever to burn-in at this rate. I decided to make a dock similar to KokoKrunch's to play and charge at the same time, but I did not want a long usb cable attached to it.

 So I decided to attach a female USB connector to it instead. I got lucky and remembered that the dollar store close to my Uni has female to male USB cables for $1. I took one female end for the iPod dock, and soldered the two male ends together.

 It took me quite a few hours to get everything working. Here are a few hints:

 1) BUY USB 2.0 cables (i.e. not from the dollar store). Initially the iPod would not charge or get detected, but you can tell something is going on since the screen goes bright as you charge it. In my linux box, it threw a bunch of errors. A quick google shows that some USB 2.0 devices do NOT work with low-quality cables (the one I bought and most USB 1.1 cables). I will spare the details on how I got it working.

 2) Open iTunes, go to the summary of the iPod, check "manually manage music".

 3) The iPod will have the standard "do not disconnect screen". Just eject it through iTunes and it should charge and play at the same time.

 Pictures:






_

 

nice, now we know that the right pins for those...you do that at the school Christine ?


----------



## CAvanessia

I do my best DIY work when I'm supposed to have a lot of stuff to study. LOL


----------



## moriez

Naturally I couldnt go over this whole thread. Forgive me if this has already been mentioned but how does this DIY iMod compare to the RedWineAudio iMod?
 Also I would like to know if any of the succesful DIY iModders here are willing to mod it for me?


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Haha, Cavanessia's dock is opposite of mine, mine has 3.5mm input jack and USB out. and the USB comes out from the side. Anyways, moriez, I would say... no difference.


----------



## joneeboi

Sonically, I couldn't tell you the difference. Practically, the diyMod 4G converts the dock's line out signal to a high-quality one and keeps the original headphone jack signal, where the iMod 4G disables the dock's signal and converts the headphone jack into a line out. The diyMod 5G and iMod 5G ought to be the same. You be the judge.


----------



## xnothingpoetic

Wow, I just saw this thread. Very helpful information.

 Too bad it wasn't around when I did this to my 4g, 4g photo and 5g ipods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You don't know how hard it was to find information on how to properly do this. Lucky I found about 2 threads which were helpful enough and one member made a website which helped too. 

 I don't get how they were about the same thing (but only 4g models), and they didn't reach past page 2- i believe.

 Also, i'm not 100% sure, but I even believe one member got ban/post deleted, for doing a DIY imod and releasing the information on it. It's hard to remember being so long ago, but he was ban for something along those lines and made a new account declaring it.


----------



## jona.p

Quote:


 Sonically, I couldn't tell you the difference. Practically, the diyMod 4G converts the dock's line out signal to a high-quality one and keeps the original headphone jack signal, where the iMod 4G disables the dock's signal and converts the headphone jack into a line out. The diyMod 5G and iMod 5G ought to be the same. You be the judge. 
 

Soo sonically it sounds the same as the Imod or the same as the dock lineout?

 Is it really worth it?;p


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jona.p* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Soo sonically it sounds the same as the Imod or the same as the dock lineout?

 Is it really worth it?;p_

 

The iMod is not worth it, the DIYmod is like winning lottery. Haha, actually to tell the truth iMod vs iPod isn't a huge huge huge difference in the first place. I spent like US$6 modding... So? Is it worth it? Up to you to decide.


----------



## CAvanessia

From the many posts I've read from head-fi, certain gear --say Koss KSC75 and a CMOY-- will give you MUCH improved performance over a stock earbud with an iPod. However, there are diminishing returns (again, according to the forum since I don't have any high-end gear) once you pass a certain point in gear/music quality/your ears.

 I believe the diyMod exhibits this (My caps are not burned in yet!) property. It is definitely better than my original line-out with an amp, but it isn't night and day difference. 

 It was worth it for me since 1) I like DIY stuff, 2) My nano did not break, 3) I had an amp/LOD/connectors/soldering iron/etc beforehand so there wasn't a huge cost.

 edit: KoKoKrunch, I actually changed the cable in my dock to a male usb cable. Because the cable I initially used was very, very low quality, the iPod would only get connected with USB1.1 and wasn't charging! The original cable had 28 gauge wires with shielding I could literally take off with my nails. Very bad quality! I chopped up an extra digital camera transfer cable to find 2 layers of stranded shielding and MUCH higher quality wires. Once I hooked this cable up everything just worked as it should. Moral of the story: use high-quality USB 2.0-rated cables or just chop up your OEM apple cable.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The iMod is not worth it, the DIYmod is like winning lottery. Haha, actually to tell the truth iMod vs iPod isn't a huge huge huge difference in the first place. I spent like US$6 modding... So? Is it worth it? Up to you to decide._


----------



## jona.p

Thanks. I think im gonna try this. I got a 1st gen nano and its wearing down, screen fails buttons dont work really that well anymore, so got nothing to lose ;P. 
 Dont have a soldering iron yet, will a ~$40 iron be good enough?


----------



## jERiCOh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe the diyMod exhibits this (My caps are not burned in yet!) property. It is definitely better than my original line-out with an amp, but it isn't night and day difference._

 

A little question about the SQ improvement : Do you use Apple Lossless ? I'm trying to figure out why some people don't hear a BIG difference like me. I just got my caps last week and started to build my 3 docks. They are not finished yet (pictures are coming) but I did some test -> CMoy, Grado SR325, No MP3 at all (Only CDs ripped by iTunes in Lossless format). I can Now hear things that I never heard before. The definition of the sound is incredible... it sounds near a good CD player.

 First post of the year, Happy New Year Everybody.


----------



## CAvanessia

To be honest, all you need to do is desolder 6 tiny parts and possibly solder ~7 spots. I believe that a $40 is overkill. Find something with a very fine tip if you're going to mod the Nano; it doesn't need to be expensive! I bought an additional Radioshack $7 iron with a stand and thought it was perfect. Save the money for accessories like desoldering braid, solder, the "hands device", and some 30 gauge wire.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jona.p* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. I think im gonna try this. I got a 1st gen nano and its wearing down, screen fails buttons dont work really that well anymore, so got nothing to lose ;P. 
 Dont have a soldering iron yet, will a ~$40 iron be good enough?_

 

x2...just like my condition when first start this DIYmod...search 30W solder & change the eye solder + buy a magnifying glass to help you see what to solder ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jERiCOh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A little question about the SQ improvement : Do you use Apple Lossless ? I'm trying to figure out why some people don't hear a BIG difference like me. I just got my caps last week and started to build my 3 docks. They are not finished yet (pictures are coming) but I did some test -> CMoy, Grado SR325, No MP3 at all (Only CDs ripped by iTunes in Lossless format). I can Now hear things that I never heard before. The definition of the sound is incredible... it sounds near a good CD player.

 First post of the year, Happy New Year Everybody._

 

haven't tried my DIYmod nano since my clickwheel stop functioning (this time for sure)...i really had to grab one...


----------



## barqy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_!
 Don't forget t remove row of four resistors that you can see on the right!




_

 


 Hey there, I removed the reisistors to the left of the G and L as seen in the above pic. What was the point of removing the resistors btw?

 now my hold switch doesn't work? 

 edit: i read in a post that you have to bridge something? but i don't remember what 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: found it: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3452054-post46.html (but i don't really get this part. I thought I could just solder the wire from c84/86 directly to the cap, then cap to L/R channels????)


 Also, I tried to fit the BG caps into the top left corner (like seen in the commercial 'imod' picture), but now my ipod won't close properly? There's a little ribbon bit that prevents it from closing properly since the BG caps are there now


 any suggestions?


 thanks a ton


----------



## joneeboi

barqy:

 I checked my iPod 4G click wheel 20GB and it does seem like a really tight fit. What you might want to invest in is a 60GB backing. It might be a bit expensive, but it would solve your problem. What you could also do is route the wires to where KoKoKrunch put the BG caps and back up tot he headphone jack. There's still enough space to send wires down and up inside the iPod, so that would solve your problem. Keeping wires short would be optimal since the inductance of the long wires messes with the high frequencies. That's just a sacrifice we have to make with these portable audio solutions.

 xnothingpoetic:

 I'm glad we could help. I'm not sure what the dude did to get banned, but I did PM jude, asking what I needed to do if I were to offer diyModding services for people. He just referred me to the Member of the Trade Head-fi Rules/Terms of Use, so I guess we haven't offended anyone just yet. At any rate, let's remember how to get along according to said Rules/Terms of Use:

[size=x-small]Be polite. We encourage debating -- even heated debating -- in the forums, _but avoid defamatory statements, personal attacks, racial slurs, name-calling, and cursing at others in the forums._ 


> *defamatory:* see _defame _ below.
> *defame:* 1. disgrace; 2. to harm the reputation of by libel or slander.
> *libel:* a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt.
> *slander:* the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation.


[/size]I won't say that the iMod is a terrible product or that Red Wine Audio is a terrorist organization, so please form your opinions on your own. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If anything, we owe both Red Wine Audio and the iMod for doing what they do because without them we wouldn't be here. I personally won't budget my money for an iMod, but that's just the way I'll spend my money.

 jona.p:

 What I meant was that the diyMod has practical advantages over the iMod. Theoretically, they do sound the same. Also, since iPod parts cost so little, you could even bother fixing that baby up. Check Tangent's articles on Getting Started in Audio DIY. A $10 pencil tip soldering gun is perfectly fine for this application. Most of the soldering is surface mount, so not too much heat is required.

 CAvanessia:

 I'm not sure it's a quality issue with your cables but more like a specification difference. Nevertheless, your point is well taken. And for the record, those "hand devices" are typically called "helping hands."


----------



## barqy

@jone boi:

 you mean koko did this:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...i/DSCN3237.jpg

 it seems that koko routed to the Line out dock rather than the headphone jack eh?


 how does vinnie make enough room to put the caps on the top right corner?


 also, can anyone tell me why the hold switch doesn't work any more (possibly after de-soldering the 4 resistors) to the left of the G/L here: http://usera.imagecave.com/vvs_75/800p.jpg

 I don't get how to fix it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -i read vvs75's explaination I linked 2 posts above, but I'm still confused, should I not have de-soldered those resistors 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 thanks in advance


----------



## CAvanessia

jon what do you mean when you mentioned the quality issue with my cables?also what are he specification differences you mentioned? Do you mean that we have different gear and thus the quality is different?

 Note to self: don't bring iPod touch to campus anymore


----------



## joneeboi

barqy:

 I couldn't explain to you why your hold switch doesn't work beyond the fact that you removed those resistors. The easy and impossible solution would be to put those resistors back, but that's probably absurd at this point. An easier solution is to procure for yourself a new one via ifixit, eBay or any of those iPod part sources.

 Also, I don't know how RWA fits those caps in the iMods. You might just have to fiddle around with the caps until it does fit. I got my iPod to close with the caps there, but one got a little squished. If you're a little more careful, you could probably pull it off.

 CAvanessia:

 What I meant was that there are low and high quality USB 1.1 cables on the one hand and there are low and high quality USB 2.0 cables on the other hand. The way you worded your posts makes it seem like USB 2.0 cables are automatically high quality when compared to USB 1.1 cables. I just wanted to make the distinction that you can have varying qualities in either format. I'm no expert on USB, but I can only imagine that USB 2.0's higher transfer speeds results in thicker wire in the cable and probably improved shielding. Here's a thread I found through Google: Do USB 1.1 cables work with USB 2.0 devices? - Everything USB Community.


----------



## CAvanessia

Jon:

 Yes -- absolutely. There are different grades of quality for USB cables. From what I understand and what my cousin (engineer at a relevant company) told me, real USB 1.1 standard cables *should* work fine for most USB 2.0 applications. However, many manufacturers noticed that the standard is overkill for USB 1.1 applications. They can lower the quality substantially without any problems and therefore they do.

 My point was that a USB 1.1 cable will have ambigious quality of construction. The recommendation for USB 2.0 standard sort of "guarantees" the minimum threshold to get good performance out of our iPods. This is assuming the manufacturers aren't lying about the compliance with the standards. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: my Sonicaps are coming tomorrow. Impressions and pictures to come tomorrow night.


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *barqy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@jone boi:

 you mean koko did this:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...i/DSCN3237.jpg

 it seems that koko routed to the Line out dock rather than the headphone jack eh?


 how does vinnie make enough room to put the caps on the top right corner?


 also, can anyone tell me why the hold switch doesn't work any more (possibly after de-soldering the 4 resistors) to the left of the G/L here: http://usera.imagecave.com/vvs_75/800p.jpg

 I don't get how to fix it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -i read vvs75's explaination I linked 2 posts above, but I'm still confused, should I not have de-soldered those resistors 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 thanks in advance_

 

you got PM!


----------



## joneeboi

CAvanessia:

 I followed your lead on the USB/line out cable. My dad and I are always juggling between who gets to use the single iPod USB cable we have. I figured that I had so many USB 2.0 cables around, it wouldn't be any trouble to incorporate one into the line out I was already fabricating. It is indeed annoying to have another USB tail hanging out of my dock, but it's more important to me to have charging while playing capability instead of having to switch cables to charge and transfer and all that. Thanks a lot for sharing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: Photo time. Notice the sweet duct tape-covered line out. I'm all about the money savers. Also, notice the melted blob on the top of my dock. That's how I know which side is up.






 Finally, Christine, why aren't you bringing your iPod touch to school anymore? Are the mean kids making fun of you for being a prosumer again? Tough break.


----------



## barqy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_barqy:

 I couldn't explain to you why your hold switch doesn't work beyond the fact that you removed those resistors. The easy and impossible solution would be to put those resistors back, but that's probably absurd at this point. An easier solution is to procure for yourself a new one via ifixit, eBay or any of those iPod part sources._

 


 Yep, I was under the impression that we were suppose to de-solder the resistors 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 anyway DONT do it, it just screws things up.

 luckily someone offered to send me another headphone jack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 unfortunately Ill be away till march 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 To all: how did you guys fit the BG caps inside a 4th gen ipod? (like what RWA does?) I can't get it to close at all


 cheers


----------



## ishtob

what kind of caps are you using? the BG NX-HQ4.7 ones should fits nicely


----------



## barqy

^I believe I have those one s(I bought them off Vlad) maybe he can confirm?

 Did you take out your ribbon cable too to fit them??


----------



## ishtob

i didnt mod the G4's sicne it belonged to my dad  but it did look like there was enough room near the bottem to put the caps there.

 I believe you've already seen this: post46 it apears that the caps are double-sided taped down.

 or maybe Vinn's just simply awesome and can make a cap fit anywhere he wants


----------



## pcyl

just complete my 5g mod 

 what i have got to say
 after removing the cap and resistor 
 and wire it up 

 u need magnify to help out
 damm hard to solder

 awaiting to borrow dock form frienf to test out
 Peter 
 Singapore


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Finally, Christine, why aren't you bringing your iPod touch to school anymore? Are the mean kids making fun of you for being a prosumer again? Tough break._

 






 I'm afraid undergrads don't dare laugh at me... well at least to my face. I shouldn't bring the touch, because I end up getting emails that there are responses to this thread. Most of the time I end up getting more ideas about potential mods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh by the way, e-speakers.com has a great deal on Clarity Caps. ~$13.5/pair for 4.7uf caps with free shipping within the US. Assuming they are comparable at all to the BGs, I should have ordered these instead and saved a lot of $$.


----------



## limathy

hi wondering if anyone is interested in selling me some blackgates, cause i cant get them in australia, been looking everywhere for them. let me know. i REALLY want to do this mod to my 1st gen nano.


----------



## joneeboi

Hey, the best way to have a good idea is to have lots of ideas, right? Show some cojones and bring your touch to school!

 limathy:

 What you could do is perform the mod on your nano while you wait for the BGs since all that's required is some careful soldering of thin wires and removing some small elements. In the mean time, you could use some nonBG caps to pair with your diyMod nano 1G and compare them with the BGs when they do arrive.


----------



## joneeboi

Anyone have a Zune 2G?


----------



## vvs_75

Ok all ipods done, now we are moving to the zune line.


----------



## wgr73

Haha! Thats funny. The zune mod would be great though. I have a warranty from best buy on my 1G zune, so I took it apart to tinker...all looks good to mod. And if anything goes wrong I can take it back for warranty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know, thats dirty


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have a Zune 2G?_

 

maybe you should make another seperated thread for Zune, Jon...cos it's a lili bit out of topic if you make a topic about it here, cmiiw...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok all ipods done, now we are moving to the zune line. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

not me... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 not even done with the ipod yet...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha! Thats funny. The zune mod would be great though. I have a warranty from best buy on my 1G zune, so I took it apart to tinker...all looks good to mod. And if anything goes wrong I can take it back for warranty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know, thats dirty
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

good for you then...


----------



## limathy

if i cant get access to black gates, does anyone have any other capacitor recommendations that are easier to obtain?


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *limathy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if i cant get access to black gates, does anyone have any other capacitor recommendations that are easier to obtain?_

 

Too bad I didn't see your request prior to my order from sonicraft, I would have tacked on a couple more BGs (it does list Int'l shipping there).

 Maybe someone yet to order could order an extra pair or two & fire them over to you for cost + shipping (maybe a WTB post in Components would help?)

 I was considering back-to-back tants because they a very small & very available. But they are apparently not ideal for this use although I'm not sure how inferior they'd be to BGs for this purpose.

 Good luck.


----------



## pcyl

Well any cap with the same value should do the work

 it only cost cents

 47uf 6.3 V easily avaliable i guess not necessary to use black Gate

 Correct me if i am wrong


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Well, you will want to find high end ones, because essentially the difference is in the capacitors for iMod.


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well any cap with the same value should do the work
 it only cost cents
 47uf 6.3 V easily avaliable i guess not necessary to use black Gate
 Correct me if i am wrong_

 

Well, if caps internal to an iPod are wanted, this is a case where size matters
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I had difficulty finding 10uf+ non-polar in a size like BG's 5x7 NX22s for my 3G... Plus if we are caring about SQ (the whole reason for this upgrade), I'd like to *try* to stick w/known quantities like the BGs.

 But it was tempting to just trot down to RS & pick up 4 10-20uf tantalums for a quick test (since back-to-back will = 1/2 individ. tantalum value, but reference for my 3G is 1uf so I figured 5uf+ would be o.k.).

 N.B. Ran across this Wolfson whitepaper that might be of interest... It seems to confirm that 10uf+ may be desired & says tantalum is "a good second choice" to polymer/alum electrolytic (but that's OEM info I guess, not necessarily directed at audiophiles
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It also refers to this for more cpl cap info.


----------



## joneeboi

limathy is looking to diyMod a nano 1G, so internal caps would be difficult to accomplish. limathey, what you could do is hit up any of the boutique capacitor suppliers in my sig and make an external dock much like those in the OP. That way, you can roll caps to see which one you like best. We've seen VCaps, Sonicaps and BGs docks so far, so maybe you can try a different brand and report on the sound quality. I have some Sprague Vitamin Qs I'm considering, but I'm debating whether or not I should throw them into the MAX. A while back, Nichicon Silmic IIs were recommended as an alternative to BGs because of their good sound, low cost, and relative ease of access thanks to Digikey.

 You would do well to read the numerous "This boutique cap is the best!" threads and find the ones that suit your sound preferences the best. Just remember that you need at least 1uF. From those Wolfson papers, it seems tantalums and aluminum electrolytics (or aluminium for those of you from the land down under) would work fine.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_maybe you should make another seperated thread for Zune, Jon...cos it's a lili bit out of topic if you make a topic about it here, cmiiw...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I thought about it, but it actually goes in line with the ideology of the diyMod: simplify the signal path between the DAC and the amplifier. Granted, you'd have to change the thread's title, but with this whole new title-of-the-thread-creates-the-link business, changing the title will destroy every link in the world wide web. Besides, it would bring Apple and Microsoft DAP users closer than ever because they would share in the same legacy. I think Zune owners deserve to have a proper line out, don't you? I haven't heard from the Zune 2Gs, but I know that the first ones had a volume controlled, who-knows-what's-in-the-signal-path line out. It would be pretty cool if we could help those Zune owners out. *cough wgr73 cough*


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_limathy is looking to diyMod a nano 1G, so internal caps would be difficult to accomplish. <snip>_

 

True enough and wondering how that "Caps inside iPod, use uncapped line out dock" config option came about under the "iPod nano 1G" (maybe holes?) & sorta gave up trying to comb this large thread for it.
 Edit: Ahh, yes, holes it was
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You would do well to read the numerous "This boutique cap is the best!" threads and find the ones that suit your sound preferences the best. Just remember that you need at least 1uF. From those Wolfson papers, it seems tantalums and aluminum electrolytics (or aluminium for those of you from the land down under) would work fine._

 

Yes, best to steer clear of a "best cap" diversion.
 I guess I'm done here till I post results & pics of the 3G work I'm planning.


----------



## joneeboi

Yeah, ishtob put the caps in his nano, but they are popping out the side for those that don't mind. We'll eagerly await your numerous high resolution, how-to pictures of the 3G.


----------



## barqy

OK

 finally got my modified ipod working (also incased)

 basically what had happened was, taken off the resistors made the hold switch off.

 so after much help from vlad, he figured out i needed to bridge/short some of the pins on the pcb board togther.


 this completely eliminated the need for a ribbon cable + the black male connector which allowed me to fit th BG caps like RWA in the top right corner.







 What is the best process for burning in caps?


----------



## CAvanessia

Here is my super temporary Sonicap setup until they are fully burned in (200 hours I guess). I have two 4.7uf GenI with 0.1uf GenII caps in parallel. From initial impressions, it *seems* that the bass hits slightly harder and deeper than the BGs that have around 50 hours of burn-in. Also it seems more spatious.





 I don't know if I should roll caps since these sound good enough. I really want to try some Obbligatos since they are fairly affordable and according to one or two reviews to be better than the Sonicaps. We'll see after a few days


----------



## infinite

/me got an ipod 3g with defect HD for 25bucks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## EightTrack

Hey this is more Directed at *VVS* but whomever can give me an answer will be rewarded w/ a smile *youll just have to take my word on this* but I saw he DIY'ed a (ALO) Sonic-cap dock & was wondering if and when you go this route do you still need to mod the ipod for best results ? or do you mod and leave the BG caps out ? or what steps if any change 

 *(yea i know that might not make sence but it beats scratching my head when im at that point)* 

 thanks all


----------



## barqy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FatHairyWomyn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey this is more Directed at *VVS* but whomever can give me an answer will be rewarded w/ a smile *youll just have to take my word on this* but I saw he DIY'ed a (ALO) Sonic-cap dock & was wondering if and when you go this route do you still need to mod the ipod for best results ? or do you mod and leave the BG caps out ? or what steps if any change 

 *(yea i know that might not make sence but it beats scratching my head when im at that point)* 

 thanks all_

 


 you would need to solder wire crom c84/86 (on a 4th gen) directly to the line out dock (L2/L3 pins).

 then you can use the sonic cap dock.

 you won't need the BG caps, since you're using sonic caps right?


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FatHairyWomyn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey this is more Directed at *VVS* but whomever can give me an answer will be rewarded w/ a smile *youll just have to take my word on this* but I saw he DIY'ed a (ALO) Sonic-cap dock & was wondering if and when you go this route do you still need to mod the ipod for best results ? or do you mod and leave the BG caps out ? or what steps if any change 

 *(yea i know that might not make sence but it beats scratching my head when im at that point)* 

 thanks all_

 

VVS' awesome docks are intended to work with the diyMod'ed iPods (what this whole thread is about). The Sonicaps are meant as replacements for the blackgate capacitors.

 You need to have some caps somewhere in the setup. You can either fit them inside the iPod (the older iMods), fit them inside the iMod cables (5g iMods + ALO iMod cables), or fit them in an external case (ALO V-cap dock and VVS' dock).

 It doesn't make sense to use these parts with a stock iPod.


----------



## pcyl

complete mine ipod mod and ask a friend to compare with his RWA which he ordered

 of course he got the signture sound same as which i DIY have to let the set run in for a while

 Catch up with you guys

 Peter 
 Singapore


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_complete mine ipod mod and ask a friend to compare with his RWA which he ordered

 of course he got the signture sound same as which i DIY have to let the set run in for a while

 Catch up with you guys

 Peter 
 Singapore_

 

Please keep us updated with the RWA iMod vs. diyMod. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If anyone is interested in my 220uf BG dock, please send me a PM.


----------



## joneeboi

FatHairyWomyn:

 Love the forum handle.

 vvs_75's Sonicap dock is meant to replace the BGs so that one can enjoy the fruits of different caps' labour. BGs are known for their quality and specs, but should one prefer a different sounding dielectric or brand, they can do so with the diyMod.

 I've spent the past two days working on my PIMETA and an A47. The PIMETA is for my dad, which he greatly appreciated *wipes tear*, so I'll have the A47, a Mini^3, an RA-1 Clone, and my Millett Hybrid MAX to "roll" with my diyMod. I really like the sound of the PIMETA and A47, but I just don't have enough opamps to enjoy them at the same time. I'm sticking to the BGs for my diyMod, so now I don't know what I'll do with those $10/ea Vitamin Qs. I'm sure I can figure something out. I gotta grab some OPA2227s. Now I just need time to sit down and listen to them all.


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please keep us updated with the RWA iMod vs. diyMod. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If anyone is interested in my 220uf BG dock, please send me a PM._

 

Many thanks to the guidence for the ipod mod
 as i will be ordering some dock 
 but i have found a site in china but need to order 1000 pcs who want to share?
 Unless i am running a business like ALO .......

 looks like i dun need 1000 pcs any way will need to order 20 pcs
 for my personel use


----------



## joneeboi

What site are you using to order those iPod connectors?

 I don't know if I mentioned this, but I ripped off the solder pads on my friend's iPod 5G when diyModding it. Silly me, I didn't secure the wires, so all that tugging was no good for the super sensitive board. This warning goes to all diyModders: [size=xx-large]*secure your wires!*[/size] Now I get the joy and pleasure of soldering straight to the Wolfson DAC and straight to the iPod dock. Surely, I enjoy skill competitions as much as the next guy, but it's a hassle very many of you will want to avoid (that excludes ruZZ.il 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). With the iPod 5G, it's trickier with the metal frame, though possible. There is a tape wrapped overtop of the dock, so you have to remove that before assigning wires to any of the pins. I believe all iPods share this characteristic.

 Remember, [size=xx-large]*secure your wires!*[/size]


----------



## aaronylee

Many thanks to everyone on this thread, it's been unbelievably interesting and helpful.

 I took the dive and started the process on a 5g-video and I got the two caps near the DAC off. Some pics here:










 As I turned to the dock side of things I noticed some traces going to bare metal pads (green arrows). Specifically:









 I confirmed with a multimeter that L2 and L3 are connected to these pads (green arrows). In measuring resistance I found that they both have 1 Ohm resistance stably. Meaning that little things pointed at with the red arrows are probably resistors. I also confirmed with multimeter that the top series of pads newly exposed near the DAC are indeed connected to the metal pads (green arrows). Obviously the lower series of newly exposed pads by the DAC are not connected (but confirmation is good to ensure no crossbridging).

 A few questions:

 1) Can we just solder from the DAC to these pads and then get rid of L2/L3? 

 2) Is it necessary to kill L2/L3 if we have removed the Caps up next to the DAC? Since we should have theoretically killed the circuit up top anyway why do we have to kill it again near the dock?

 If the answer to both of these questions is 'yes', then I think this would be the most simple way to mod the 5g.
 1) Take out the two caps near the DAC
 2) Solder thin wires from the newly exposed pads near the DAC to the metal pads.

 From previous experience from surface soldering I would urge everyone to tape the wires down before soldering and to use the thinnest wires possible. Lifted pads are NOT easy to fix.


----------



## CAvanessia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aaronylee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many thanks to everyone on this thread, it's been unbelievably interesting and helpful.

 I took the dive and started the process on a 5g-video and I got the two caps near the DAC off. Some pics here:


 As I turned to the dock side of things I noticed some traces going to bare metal pads (green arrows). Specifically:

 I confirmed with a multimeter that L2 and L3 are connected to these pads (green arrows). In measuring resistance I found that they both have 1 Ohm resistance stably. Meaning that little things pointed at with the red arrows are probably resistors. I also confirmed with multimeter that the top series of pads newly exposed near the DAC are indeed connected to the metal pads (green arrows). Obviously the lower series of newly exposed pads by the DAC are not connected (but confirmation is good to ensure no crossbridging).

 A few questions:

 1) Can we just solder from the DAC to these pads and then get rid of L2/L3? 

 2) Is it necessary to kill L2/L3 if we have removed the Caps up next to the DAC? Since we should have theoretically killed the circuit up top anyway why do we have to kill it again near the dock?

 If the answer to both of these questions is 'yes', then I think this would be the most simple way to mod the 5g.
 1) Take out the two caps near the DAC
 2) Solder thin wires from the newly exposed pads near the DAC to the metal pads.

 From previous experience from surface soldering I would urge everyone to tape the wires down before soldering and to use the thinnest wires possible. Lifted pads are NOT easy to fix._

 

I am not an expert but I will attempt to answer with what I know. 

 1) I think someone else did not remove L2/L3 and there were some undesired effects. My memory may be wrong. If the L2/L3 pads after removal still have connection to the new pads, I don't see any harm in using the new pads especially if they will be easier.

 2) It isn't necessary to remove caps/resistors/whatever they are (red arrows), but I was informed by someone in this thread that these parts may degrade sound in theory. If I recall correctly there is something about the signal traveling out of the dock and some parts of it coming back.... or something like that.

 Lets just wait for someone more knowledgeable to jump in here.


----------



## wgr73

Interesting find!! It would seem like a yes to both of those questions like you said. It wouldn't hurt to give it a shot...that would make things a whole lot easier!


----------



## powertoold

I just finished my vvs dock with Sonicaps, 4.7uF, .1uF bypass. It's in the 80mm Hammond recommended by vvs with Kobiconn minis. I am still waiting for my iPod dock connectors to come.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aaronylee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many thanks to everyone on this thread, it's been unbelievably interesting and helpful._

 

You're welcome. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aaronylee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A few questions:

 1) Can we just solder from the DAC to these pads and then get rid of L2/L3?

 2) Is it necessary to kill L2/L3 if we have removed the Caps up next to the DAC? Since we should have theoretically killed the circuit up top anyway why do we have to kill it again near the dock?_

 

The reason it was decided to desolder L2 and L3 really comes down to minutiae. The ultimate bearing on the sound probably won't be much, but it follows good theory to remove those parts. Going back to the highway analogy, when you open up an exit that leads nowhere, you still take a few cars away from the highway that needed to get somewhere, even if it is only a small fraction of the entire traffic population. Close off the exit, get as many people moving in as little time possible since nobody likes traffic jams. In this case, it's both our way and the highway.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aaronylee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ If the answer to both of these questions is 'yes', then I think this would be the most simple way to mod the 5g.
 1) Take out the two caps near the DAC
 2) Solder thin wires from the newly exposed pads near the DAC to the metal pads._

 

Whatever the diyModder is comfortable with. It is a challenge removing those SMD parts, and just now I soldered my diyMod wires straight to the dock which was a huge 3 hour headache. I think I did a really good job soldering, but the final fit isn't as pretty as it will be for most. I was about to buy a broken iPod to swap parts, but soldering straight to the QFN28 and dock pins was a much cheaper way to party. One way is easier, but whatever happened to the endless pursuit of perfection? Figure out which one is best for you.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aaronylee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ From previous experience from surface soldering I would urge everyone to tape the wires down before soldering and to use the thinnest wires possible. *Lifted pads are NOT easy to fix.*_

 

Amen and hallelujah, brother. Amen and hallelujah.


----------



## ruZZ.il

I think open ended caps connected to a sigal line may have more effect than open ended inductors.. since the caps effect is led by voltage, and the inductors by current.. since there is actually a voltage swing on an open ended device, there may be some effect.. though not so with an open ended inductor, where the current is almost non existent.. anyway, just a thought. maybe I'll scope it out sometime


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, ishtob put the caps in his nano, but they are popping out the side for those that don't mind. We'll eagerly await your numerous high resolution, how-to pictures of the 3G. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd been planning to doc what I do even before this prodding
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It'll be good to have this as a ref thread for the various efforts (accumulated experience, etc).

 Just wanted to say I decided to order one of those new 850mAh ipod *mini* batteries for my 40GB 3G - This should yield a 5mm x 5mm x 30mm channel (approx) for parts in my 3G. I'll be doing the mod w/5x7 22uf BGs & ref resistors and trying feed through existing lineout.

 Re: Secure wires - YES, the moment I'm sure of the connections I'll be using that hot glue gun


----------



## EightTrack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FatHairyWomyn:

 Love the forum handle.

 vvs_75's Sonicap dock is meant to replace the BGs so that one can enjoy the fruits of different caps' labour. BGs are known for their quality and specs, but should one prefer a different sounding dielectric or brand, they can do so with the diyMod.

 I've spent the past two days working on my PIMETA and an A47. The PIMETA is for my dad, which he greatly appreciated *wipes tear*, so I'll have the A47, a Mini^3, an RA-1 Clone, and my Millett Hybrid MAX to "roll" with my diyMod. I really like the sound of the PIMETA and A47, but I just don't have enough opamps to enjoy them at the same time. I'm sticking to the BGs for my diyMod, so now I don't know what I'll do with those $10/ea Vitamin Qs. I'm sure I can figure something out. I gotta grab some OPA2227s. Now I just need time to sit down and listen to them all._

 

Awesome man glad you like it, 

 I appreciate ALL the help from you and others on this Board and am glad I found it (the site). 

 For the record I fully understood that there had to be something there just wasnt sure if it was BG and Sonic caps 

 Thx All.


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aaronylee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many thanks to everyone on this thread, it's been unbelievably interesting and helpful.

 I took the dive and started the process on a 5g-video and I got the two caps near the DAC off. Some pics here:










 As I turned to the dock side of things I noticed some traces going to bare metal pads (green arrows). Specifically:









 I confirmed with a multimeter that L2 and L3 are connected to these pads (green arrows). In measuring resistance I found that they both have 1 Ohm resistance stably. Meaning that little things pointed at with the red arrows are probably resistors. I also confirmed with multimeter that the top series of pads newly exposed near the DAC are indeed connected to the metal pads (green arrows). Obviously the lower series of newly exposed pads by the DAC are not connected (but confirmation is good to ensure no crossbridging).

 A few questions:

 1) Can we just solder from the DAC to these pads and then get rid of L2/L3? 

 2) Is it necessary to kill L2/L3 if we have removed the Caps up next to the DAC? Since we should have theoretically killed the circuit up top anyway why do we have to kill it again near the dock?

 If the answer to both of these questions is 'yes', then I think this would be the most simple way to mod the 5g.
 1) Take out the two caps near the DAC
 2) Solder thin wires from the newly exposed pads near the DAC to the metal pads.

 From previous experience from surface soldering I would urge everyone to tape the wires down before soldering and to use the thinnest wires possible. Lifted pads are NOT easy to fix._

 

so from WM chip to the pad which is for which?
 any idea?


----------



## aaronylee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so from WM chip to the pad which is for which?
 any idea?_

 

Using the pics from the OP:









 And the one that I posted above:





 You would connect the green wire to the bottom pad and the blue one to the top pad. 

 Hope that helps!


----------



## joneeboi

Here is an alternate method of connecting the chip to the dock. I ripped the pads off the L2, L3 and circular pads, so I had to come up with an alternate version. I routed the wires from the chip around the metal frame to the back, right up to the dock's pins. I had to twist 2 strands from my 7 stranded SPC wire because anything more would make it touch the adjacent pins. Observe.






 Some mighty fine work that kept me up pretty late last night.





 Glue is an essential part of the healthy, balanced diet.





 Yeah, those Z pads decided to up and leave the diyMod party.





 Let the record show that this method is the 3rd resort. Try the inductor pads, then the circular pads, and if all else fails, go straight to the dock. Always remember to secure those wires.


----------



## wgr73

Lol jon, WOW! All I can say is: "pretty amazing"! If you can solder like that, you wont have to worry about too much in the diy field. That is about as bad as it gets! Great work! Thats very clean as well! Good job!

 Thats crazy hard to do. Haha, you can see the solder on the docking port where you probably rubbed against it. What size tip did you use to accomplish this?

 EDIT: Thats about as 'clean' of a signal as you going to get! Not having any trace to go through...again, great work!


----------



## joneeboi

It's the standard tip on my Weller WLC100, the ST3. The trick is to heat up the wire enough so that the solder you use to tin it will melt onto the pin. I probably would have done the same thing with a smaller tip. And of course, I must also give credit to my Helping Hands because they helped me greatly with getting a good angle with the lighting, and of course for holding up the darn board in the first place. Great confidence builder.


----------



## powertoold

I will try to do what you did Jon


----------



## joneeboi

I must warn you that the diyMod does not close as uniformly as originally with those wires flying everywhere. When you try the diyMod 5G, avoid the straight-to-dock method as best you can. My diyMod would benefit greatly from a new front plate.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought about it, but it actually goes in line with the ideology of the diyMod: simplify the signal path between the DAC and the amplifier. Granted, you'd have to change the thread's title, but with this whole new title-of-the-thread-creates-the-link business, changing the title will destroy every link in the world wide web. Besides, it would bring Apple and Microsoft DAP users closer than ever because they would share in the same legacy. I think Zune owners deserve to have a proper line out, don't you? I haven't heard from the Zune 2Gs, but I know that the first ones had a volume controlled, who-knows-what's-in-the-signal-path line out. It would be pretty cool if we could help those Zune owners out. *cough wgr73 cough* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

oh i c, then let's continue...shall we ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is my super temporary Sonicap setup until they are fully burned in (200 hours I guess). I have two 4.7uf GenI with 0.1uf GenII caps in parallel. From initial impressions, it *seems* that the bass hits slightly harder and deeper than the BGs that have around 50 hours of burn-in. Also it seems more spatious.





 I don't know if I should roll caps since these sound good enough. I really want to try some Obbligatos since they are fairly affordable and according to one or two reviews to be better than the Sonicaps. We'll see after a few days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

nice one Christine...so you use 2 pair of caps, right ?


----------



## powertoold

Wow, I just tried to do the direct thing with my Nano ... don't do it lol

 It is probably the most difficult single thing I've done ever. I didn't have any hot glue (can't really use it because of space), so it was very hopeless to have the wires slip again and again. I also burnt out the pad for the right channel and had to solder it on the top. 

 I don't even know if I succeeded because when I close the Nano, everything may have gotten stressed and broken again. LOL I am never going to open the Nano up again, Wow.

 Soldering directly to the DAC was easy... the dock... oMG it is so damn hopelessly frustrating haha.


----------



## iQEM

powertoold, have you use a lil' gauge wire ? i had the same condition as yours before BUT now after i switch to other lil wires it doing just fine, even my lcd came back to normal...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now i still stuck with the clickwheel & other button cause of the ribbon cable...


----------



## joneeboi

What you could also do is just tape the wires down. It isn't as firm as hot glue, but it's still better than nothing while still ensuring a good, tight fit. Nevertheless, ruZZ.il pulled off the hot glue technique, so it isn't necessarily impossible. With some clever sleight of hand, I'm sure you can figure something out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think we're all familiar with the feeling of despair you were expressing. Just take a few days off to regain your composure, and tackle it again. I had procrastinated that diyMod 5G for almost a whole month before going at it again and finally figuring it out; even then, I had to work 3 straight hours just to get those two solder joints done. Give yourself that break you know you deserve for doing such ingenious black magic on your iPod nano (which is always fun bragging to your friends about) and wring out that stress. Get your spirit back, and I'm sure everything will go well for you when you reattempt it.


----------



## pcyl

So what the outcome to use 47UF or 4.7 uf for dock?


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, I just tried to do the direct thing with my Nano ... don't do it lol_

 

Yeah, I *was* going to keep mum till I do my 40GB 3G but since I'm waiting on that mini battery..... Using thin gauge wire and wire-wrap wire as a last resort.

 Forgive me if this has been discussed, but other than the challenge of it, I don't really understand doing this mod to any iPod < 10GB. Seems moving to a lossless format is commensurate with this upgrade & once you do that you need the space. Sure this mod can't help but boost lossy format quality but I'd expect to notice (more of) a difference between lossless & lossy formats on ipods w/this mod.

 Guess I'd consider selling an ipod < 10GB (instead of risk damaging it) & buying a 3rd or 4th gen for $100 for an easier time of it. Easy for me to say as I got my 3rd gen free due to its dead battery & it's owner got an iPod Touch for Xmas
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S. Looks like modders might want to use thinner wire than they have on hand... As I have a 50ft spool of 30awg wire-wrap wire (*looks* like silver coated solid copper core w/very thin Teflon insul), I could part w/a couple dozen 1ft strips... ConUSers could PM me w/their address & I'd send you 1ft & even cover the stamp


----------



## KerryKing

diyMod is done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But now i have to get a dock to see if it works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have some pics that i will upload to my site in the sig during the night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyays it boots and hp out still works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thx for all pics and help


----------



## joneeboi

Glad we could help, Kerry. I'd love to see some of those pictures. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cfcubed:

 Good call on the wire wrap wires. navships has 36AWG SPC (OD of 0.44mm), but 36AWG strippers are hard to come by. The cheapest I saw online was $45. Hm...


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good call on the wire wrap wires. navships has 36AWG SPC (OD of 0.44mm), but 36AWG strippers are hard to come by. The cheapest I saw online was $45. Hm..._

 

I think the smallest you'd want to go is 30awg... It's also the smallest hole in my strippers. I've used it before to fix/bridge lifted PCB traces
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Red spool below:






 This stuff is like 30 years old or so (from my father - fixed tube-type TVs then tinkered in solid-state). Looks new & takes solder well, etc.


----------



## CAvanessia

I also used wire wrap. It is from Radioshack and *looks* silver coated.


----------



## powertoold

Hey guys, I have a question.

 If I removed those Z Z caps, and the inductors near the Line Out, would I be able to get a normal Line Out signal anymore without doing the diyMod?

 I am just trying to figure out a method of making sure I am getting the direct signal from the DAC instead of the normal Line Out.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I have a question.

 If I removed those Z Z caps, and the inductors near the Line Out, would I be able to get a normal Line Out signal anymore *without doing the diyMod*?

 I am just trying to figure out a method of making sure I am getting the *direct signal from the DAC instead of the normal Line Out.*_

 

Those objectives don't really lend themselves to the other. If you don't want to do the diyMod, how are you going to get the signal from the DAC? If you cut the caps and inductors, you don't have a regular line out. If you cut them and don't diyMod them, you don't have the signal from the DAC. To "mak[e] sure [you are] getting the direct signal from the DAC instead of the normal Line Out," you are pretty much doing the diyMod or paying for an iMod/GMod.


----------



## powertoold

Sorry for being vague Jon, I just wanted to make sure my direct DAC solder was good and making contact. I just tried to use the Line Out to my Sonicap dock, and I heard both channels fine, but I wasn't sure if I was hearing the normal Line Out or my actual direct connection from the DAC.


----------



## joneeboi

Okay, now I understand more. You should be hearing the DAC + Sonicaps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Makes me wonder if I should try out the Solens I have lying around. BGs are nice, but I wonder what the sound would be like with a true film cap. Argh! I'm running out of enclosures! Maybe I should build a docking station now. *walks off to ponder*


----------



## CAvanessia

I'm in the process of building a beefier dock like ALO. Basically I want a slot for the iPod with a plug at the bottom of the slot. It should be able to charge, transfer data, and enclose some big caps.

 I'm trying to think of a cheap way to accomplish all this. Jon, maybe we can brainstorm for a dock for a complete diyMod solution =D


----------



## pcyl

so guy i bought a USB ipod charging adapter rip open 
 of course using back the pin which i pull out solder wires to them before putting back to pin 2,3,4 slot ,then fllow with hot glue gun to
 hold pin in place,well the problem lies as using 47uf 6.3v kind of hard to close up the dock shoild i use 100uf 6.3v which is way much smaller ,it is recomend to use 100 uf 6.3 V

 i did much hook 47uf and it sound bright cause not burn in yet 
 is that what you get guys?
 i also hook up 100uf sound not much diff from 47uf?

 any answer to it? 47uf or 100 uf?

 Peter
 Singapore


----------



## KerryKing

Here comes some pics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






















 The leads are a little bit to long, but i have no cable stripper so i did not dare to make to short as it is not the easiest size of leads to strip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also seen on Erik's and Sven's DIY page


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so guy i bought a USB ipod charging adapter rip open 
 of course using back the pin which i pull out solder wires to them before putting back to pin 2,3,4 slot ,then fllow with hot glue gun to
 hold pin in place,well the problem lies as using 47uf 6.3v kind of hard to close up the dock shoild i use 100uf 6.3v which is way much smaller ,it is recomend to use 100 uf 6.3 V

 i did much hook 47uf and it sound bright cause not burn in yet 
 is that what you get guys?
 i also hook up 100uf sound not much diff from 47uf?

 any answer to it? 47uf or 100 uf?

 Peter
 Singapore_

 

Well, as already mentioned and tested... changing a few caps won't make audible differences unless your set up is really good for monitoring or whatever. Really, I even compared normal iPod to iMod, with an average setup, you'll never know if I modded it or not. (Note: tested with 4G iPod) My verdict bout the iMod is just a simple mod which does nothing huge but with truckloads of hype. It may be my ears, but if there are differences I can hear it. Bleh, nothing against our DIYMod committee here, I've done the mod myself and I'm just thinking out loud. =) Smile everyone

 And KerryKing seems to have a fetish for hotglue! That's a hell lot man! You sure you're able to close it?


----------



## KerryKing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And KerryKing seems to have a fetish for hotglue! That's a hell lot man! You sure you're able to close it?_

 

We all have our fetishes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Well i didnt know it was such a tight fit when i glued it and after i didnt dare to take it away. But anyways it is closed and it works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It was just wery tight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also i think it might look like more then it is as i used a hobby knife to paste it out, so it is more wide than high.

 Its a good thing that the blue stuff on the hdd is not to compact 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 /Erik


----------



## powertoold

So here's my version. The dock cable goes inside the dock. It isn't detachable.

 There's a DC plug for 4.5v AC adapter. You can't transfer data, but you don't need the computer on for it to charge. Also, in addition to the mini you see on the picture, there's another mini on the other side of the dock. Inside the dock are 4.7uF and .1uF Sonicaps. 

 At first, I tried to use a 6V DC adapter but the iPod froze everytime I tried to charge it.


----------



## CAvanessia

Looking good. I have the EXACT setup with the sonicaps and 1g Nano. Except my case looks is a budget one.


----------



## joneeboi

Nice work, powertoold. Are you connecting the ground to case? If you're using the same Kobiconns I got from Mouser, then that's one "disadvantage" of using them. How's the bulk pairing with the amp? I was listening to a CMoy during finals, and I had loads of cell phone interference ruining my studying fun. I didn't ground the case, so all that interference got into my music. >=(

 Anyway, here's my diyMod 4G with my recently completed Mini3. I can charge both player and amp while studying. Huzzah! Minor note: the interaction between the iPod's metal back and the Mini3's grounded casing cut out my right channel. You can't see it, but I lined the top of the Mini3 with electrical tape. Burning in now...





 edit: Also, I've updated the first page with a gallery. If you want in or you want a certain picture up there, let me know.


----------



## cfcubed

Looks like there's lots of solder smoke today (not to mention iPods at risk
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Got my 3G 40GB done & it works & sounds good but has yet to burn-in. The hard work was really done by lwaudio @ ipastudio.com identifying the Codec lineout caps.... And thanks go to joneeboi & others here for sure...

 Goal was to keep all features working as stock (headphone out, lineout, make no holes, pigtails, etc) and met that. Was a kinda tight fit, but not too bad really & iPod fits together & works fine w/the new parts in it. 

 Used crappy Paint to put comments in the pix & I think they pretty much cover it. This may be too many pics to post (even tho I cropped them), please let me know if I should amend the post to pull pics...


----------



## powertoold

Hey Jon, what do you mean by grounding on the case? I took the Line Out GND from the dock, and it is connected to the sleeve on the headphone out. Is this a bad way of doing it?

 Also, at the same volume, I can't really tell the difference between the diyMod w/ Sonicaps vs the regular headphone out. There must be something wrong, or maybe the differences are subtle, which I doubt because I've been hearing stuff like "going from regular iPod to iMod is a big difference." I'm not sure what's wrong, if anything. The SQ of the headphone out and Line Out sound very much the same to me, except the Line Out has less background hiss, which isn't noticeable on HD580s.


----------



## joneeboi

Thanks for that tutorial, cfcubed. Very detailed and revealing pictures. This should help out 3G diyModders because we had yet to discover the dock pads. Good job!

 powertoold, I mean that the Kobiconn jacks are isolated from the case, so it's not electrically connected to ground. What you could do is connect a wire to ground inside the case and let the other end fly in the air and scrape the top/bottom/side/front/back of the case. Long runs of wire lend themselves to picking up interference, so protecting it from RFI with the case is a good idea.

 Concerning the sound difference, give your mind a chance to hook onto the sound of the diyMod signal for a while before you compare to the headphone jack. This sentiment is expressed in regards to doing comparos at mini-, regular and national meets, where there is little time for you to pick up on the nuances and quirks of the sound signature of this or that piece of equipment. Let your mind settle on the "higher quality" sound of the diyMod's cap-enhanced, amped signal before going back to listen to the HP out signal. Then there's that whole chestnut of burn-in.


----------



## aaronylee

Just to let everyone know. I'm in the process of putting a tutorial together to explain how to mod the 5g on my site soon. 

 Will give due credit to everyone!


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, as already mentioned and tested... changing a few caps won't make audible differences unless your set up is really good for monitoring or whatever. Really, I even compared normal iPod to iMod, with an average setup, you'll never know if I modded it or not. (Note: tested with 4G iPod) My verdict bout the iMod is just a simple mod which does nothing huge but with truckloads of hype. It may be my ears, but if there are differences I can hear it. Bleh, nothing against our DIYMod committee here, I've done the mod myself and I'm just thinking out loud. =) Smile everyone

 And KerryKing seems to have a fetish for hotglue! That's a hell lot man! You sure you're able to close it?_

 

 i have actually tried IMod with ALO dock with RSA
 and also plug in a 5 Gen without mod (sound like some china cheapo MP3)
 of course we are on losses file
 we should stick to 47uf 6.3V dun need BG


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Jon, what do you mean by grounding on the case? I took the Line Out GND from the dock, and it is connected to the sleeve on the headphone out. Is this a bad way of doing it?

 Also, at the same volume, I can't really tell the difference between the diyMod w/ Sonicaps vs the regular headphone out. There must be something wrong, or maybe the differences are subtle, which I doubt because I've been hearing stuff like "going from regular iPod to iMod is a big difference." I'm not sure what's wrong, if anything. The SQ of the headphone out and Line Out sound very much the same to me, except the Line Out has less background hiss, which isn't noticeable on HD580s._

 

Hahaha, I experience the same thing as you. Oh well, but if you can't really hear the difference straight away, it should be considered subtle. I think it's more of a mind thing when you're saying this sounds better than that, when it's the same thing, blind tests have proved it. I've been comparing again and again, A-B... nope... subtle difference, other than the noise part.

 And again, it may be me, but that's what I hear.


----------



## powertoold

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have actually tried IMod with ALO dock with RSA
 and also plug in a 5 Gen without mod (sound like some china cheapo MP3)
 of course we are on losses file
 we should stick to 47uf 6.3V dun need BG_

 

So you were comparing an iMod with ALO dock AND an amp vs. a regular iPod headphone out? I doubt it, but I'm just making sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Anyway, in the comparison, were you listening to the exact same tracks at the same volume? It's easy to confuse detail, soundstage, impact, and whatnot with volume.

 I am apparently, I am getting my signal directly from the DAC with my silver coated teflon 28awg wires (only used 1-2 strands for contact), but I'm not hearing much of a difference at all. I am comparing the direct Line Out signal with no amp vs. the headphone out. If the difference was "big" at all, I would notice it without having to concentrate. Maybe all of us on head-fi are on a wild goose chase to find things that cause our perception to be skewed into liking it, haha.


----------



## EightTrack

Hey guys/gals,

 So I'm sitting at my home rigged station *not an engineer by any means Im a building maintenance guy so its minimal at best but Im confident I can accomplish the task w/ what I got.
 and Ive got my pod split open and just looking over everything to make sure I have a solid well drawn out plan for when my parts arrive and Im looking at the Wolfson chip (minds been freed at this point) and the thought occured to me and this isnt something Ive seen mentioned here or maybe I missed it but would it be posible to Upgrade the chip to something *Uber nice*
 (i dont know enough about this to know what that would be..but I do know that technology is considered Old after meere weeks if that so there would have to be...right??) 

 Could this even be possible ? and if so would it be difficult and worth the "Upgrade" ?

 just my $0.02


----------



## joneeboi

Theoretically, you're right, FatHairyWomyn. As long as the chips are pin-compatible, swapping makes sense. But theory leaves us and in comes practicality. Maybe Apple made some design decisions that make chip swapping impossible even if the pin-compatibility test checks out. My best guess at how to remove the current chip and replacing it with the hopeful substitute would baking the board, but you end up screwing with this and that. Perhaps if you had a specialized desoldering gun with a wide stance and sharp tips you may be able to desolder it, but then you'd have to use two desoldering guns at the same time on the same limited board space. Out goes practicality and in comes the point of diminishing returns. It may just be easier, cheaper and more effective if you bought a broken iPod and fixed/replaced the broken parts. Granted, some options will not be available from one iPod generation to the next, but then the alternative is intimidating enough to make the compromise worth the saved effort. Then again, Edison failed 100 times before discovering our beloved light bulb.

 Way to think outside the box, though. Nevertheless, it would require more brain juice than I'm able/willing to squeeze at the moment. =T


----------



## EightTrack

Thanks man , gonna do some lookin into, see what I come up with


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hahaha, I experience the same thing as you. Oh well, but if you can't really hear the difference straight away, it should be considered subtle. I think it's more of a mind thing when you're saying this sounds better than that, when it's the same thing, blind tests have proved it. I've been comparing again and again, A-B... nope... subtle difference, other than the noise part.

 And again, it may be me, but that's what I hear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

what you've use to hear from ipod+amp ? i mean earphone/headphone ?!


----------



## oicdn

I'm interested in hearing the DIYmod A-B'd to an iMod...I'm contemplating pulling the trigger on a 4th gen just so I can have somebody mod me one and I can compare back to back...


 In any case, like powertoold says, the difference is subtle, hence the reason why I usually just listen to my nano...


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hahaha, I experience the same thing as you. Oh well, but if you can't really hear the difference straight away, it should be considered subtle. I think it's more of a mind thing when you're saying this sounds better than that, when it's the same thing, blind tests have proved it. I've been comparing again and again, A-B... nope... subtle difference, other than the noise part.

 And again, it may be me, but that's what I hear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

is this your set up or using other lowend AMP !!!
 5G mod
 Final test and rig up we play the same song with the same setup
 first Imod with ALo supercotton with RSA Hornet IEM UE superfi 5
 second my mod(DIY) i call it P mod which i done it with the same setup
 we have the equal as Imod as feed back from Gary sommother,warmer,tighter bass,more staging of juicer !!!!

 Peter
 singapore


----------



## pcyl

Next mod on the list i will be modding 47uf 6.3V willbe installing Caps 
 in the 5gen Ipod,so can use with other dock
 will be sourcing mateial in thes couple of days
 should i be join the team of DIY?


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Okay... it might be my set up as well. Pretty Average.

 Anyway, installing Caps in 5gen iPod? Sounds like drilling required.


----------



## ishtob

I've A B between my ipod classic and diymodded ipod nano (roughly 70 hours burn-in now), this is what I thought:

 DIYmodded nano: better bass handling, more detailed highs.

 ipod classic: a slightly more expansive soundstage


----------



## joneeboi

I've thought long and hard about the sound quality comparisons I've been reading about diyMod vs. iMod vs. regular iPod and I came to this conclusion. I don't care if I can't tell the sound difference, I just know that the signal is cleaner than what it used to be. In audio, there is at least one spectrum where you have to decide which end you prefer to be on, and that spectrum is the battle between signal fidelity and musicality. Some people enjoy listening to the headphone jacks of their iPods listening with their SR60s on 128kbps MP3, which is more musical than anything while the signal quality is not up to par with what many of us are used to. Then you have the fellow listening on his $2000 SACD player through his balanced Benchmark DAC1 outputs through his balanced First Watt F1 for his balanced K1000s. We would consider that a highly pure signal in comparison to the iPod headphone jack listener's music. This juxtaposition is meant to illustrate the differences we have in signal fidelity and musicality. One dude's setup is meant to keep a pure sound, while the other guy just wants to have fun. Would the average Joe be able to tell the sound difference between setups? I'm sure most of us would like to think so.

 But what we're looking at here is the difference in signal quality. With the pre-diyModded iPods, you have the congested signal through the iPod's bad circuitry (whose schematic no one here really knows). Then you have the post-diyModded iPods, whose signal goes through better parts and a better amplifier. We're not looking for a difference in musicality here, but a difference in signal fidelity. We can't even be sure what the sound difference will be like, but we do know that the signal will be much cleaner and closer to what the iPod/Wolfson is actually putting out. So while the sound difference may be subtle, what we're doing here is looking to get a cleaner signal, and the sound signature will follow. We put the signal through BGs and an amp like the Mini^3, which has a ruler flat frequency response, and we can trust that whatever we're hearing is relatively closer to what it's supposed to be compared to the original signal. Then some of us will put the signal through VCaps and a Beta22 for more fidelity. What I'm saying is that even though we can't tell the difference and we may think it was all just a rip-off and waste of time, we actually should be comforted in the fact that we cleaned up the signal and took a step further in the direction of signal fidelity.

 What all this can come to mean is I've tainted some of us in terms of psychoacoustics. Try not to think about what you're listening through so much as what you're actually hearing. Don't think or focus on whatever your setup looks like or how much money and effort you spent on it. Just listen.


----------



## TSF

Anyone tried to do a DIYmod 6th Gen? Is it even possible? I'd be really interested in it.
 And do anyone know where to get spare parts for the nano 1st gen in Europe? I managed to kill both my screen and the click wheel...


----------



## joneeboi

Try eBay for spare parts.

 As for the 6G, there haven't been any reports of successful attempts, but I'm looking into it.


----------



## powertoold

"What all this can come to mean is I've tainted some of us in terms of psychoacoustics. Try not to think about what you're listening through so much as what you're actually hearing. Don't think or focus on whatever your setup looks like or how much money and effort you spent on it. Just listen."

 I do just listen and say it like I hear it, hehe. I spent a lot of time and money on this mod, so if anything, I should have placebo'ed myself to make it sound better, but I didn't - sounds very similar. I think your philosophy of just listen leads to people listening to 128kbps MP3s because the difference between 128kbps MP3 and lossless is very minor, so if you just listen, then I don't think you'd care much about the bitrate. With some mods and changes, there are obvious but minor improvements. So far, I haven't been able to pick up any improvements. I've tried to only listen to the highs, bass, soundstage, imaging, etc. But this doesn't change the fact that I've enjoyed doing the mod, even with the frustrating times hehe.

 Hey, I have a question: is the Line Out after the caps suppose to be loud? It can drive my HD580s to a loud volume.


----------



## joneeboi

You're right about the difference in bitrates. I can't really tell the difference between WAV and 320kbps besides the loads of space the waves take up on my hard drive. I'd go with ALAC since I'm all about the iPods, but ALAC sucks for sending to friends who don't have iTunes, and I don't think my Creative ZVM supports ALAC.

 Line outs are pretty loud, from my experience. The strange thing is that my diyMod 4G's line out is slightly quieter than my friend's diyMod 5G's. *shrug* Keep in mind the gain of your amp affects the effective loudness as well.


----------



## powertoold

I'm actually connecting my HD580s directly after the caps without an amp.


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm actually connecting my HD580s directly after the caps without an amp._

 

If you're talking about caps from the CODEC's lineouts I think this is presenting an impedance to the CODEC that is completely out of wack.... Lineouts typically expect impedance loads > 1k ohm & usually 10k+ AFAIK. Personally, I'd also stay close to reference spec on any associated resistors Wolfson spec (e.g. for my 3G is 47k loader & 100 ohm series).

 But if you pulled from the CODEC's headphone out lines & used like 220uf+ caps, that's another story...

 If there's one thing I have learned so far fooling w/tone stacks & such is that impedance matters
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BTW, after burn in I'm going to do some A/Bing of my own using lossless rips of ref CDs (e.g. Steely Dan - Aja & such) & the stuff in my sig, but the topic of improvement has been discussed ad nauseam here & somewhat at RWA forums...

 N.B. Some backing info for the impedance concerns; take a look at the 1st page of that WAN0176.pdf Wolfson whitepaper I ref'ed some posts back - The lineout table at bottom only goes down to 10k impedance / 10uf coupler. Not sure it's healthy for the CODEC lineouts to drive impedances < 1k. Also, based on high pass calc, gotta watch the corner freqs for loads like headphone (even tho I *think* your HD580s are med/high imp. as far as headphones go).


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay... it might be my set up as well. Pretty Average.

 Anyway, installing Caps in 5gen iPod? Sounds like drilling required._

 

well no need to drill just do some porting


----------



## aaronylee

hey everyone,

 here's my tutorial for the 5g. its a work in progress....

» DIY iMod iPod


----------



## joneeboi

Looks good so far, Aaron. I can picture myself doing it all over again.


----------



## rotel

OK I have a 5th gen ipod
 now if I were to remove the caps and feed directly to pin 3 and 4 will the ipod still work via usb on my pioneer HU in my car?


----------



## joneeboi

The USB should still work for your Pioneer system. The diyMod doesn't affect the USB portion of the iPod, so you're all set. In fact, your car stereo system may even have a higher fidelity than our little diyMods since the D/A conversion takes place in your Pioneer unit. Your stereo replaces the Wolfson, so anything that happens in the Wolfson is down a different stream than the car stereo system signal.


----------



## joneeboi

I'd like to take this moment to shamelessly bump a thread that's already regularly bumped to make an important announcement. This thread has recently become the most replied-to and viewed iMod thread on all of head-fi, so exposure is inevitable for future generations. Get the word out there! DIY and courage can save you money! Thanks for your help, everyone. Let's keep the magic alive.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Yo guys...

 Asked someone that is trust-able to do a comparison today. DIYMod vs iMod has no difference. He only noticed that soundstage was slightly lesser, while bass was boomier for DIYMod, and we concluded it was the wire inside. Mine is standard copper, his was Cryogenic copper.


----------



## jamess71

Ok guys I'm in a jam. I opened up my iPod yesterday to check out this project. 

 I broke the little latch that holds lcd screen cable in place. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I put it all back together hoping it didn't need that latch to make connectivity on that cable. Now my screen is just white. Where can I get one of these little latches? Thanks for any help. 

 James


----------



## powertoold

Yes, you need to be very careful with that latch. If it's not too bad, you can try to put it back into the position, then super glue the pieces. I assume it's broken in two.


----------



## KerryKing

Hello all finally did my dock connector.

 But now i tested the dc offset, maybe i did it wrong but i did it as i think i shall..

 I measured between the ground and the left and right channel. And i get as high readings as 0.6 and 260mV. 
 Maybe i do it wrong but it seems like i have done something really wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well if someone knows what might be wrong i would like the help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 /Erik


----------



## jamess71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, you need to be very careful with that latch. If it's not too bad, you can try to put it back into the position, then super glue the pieces. I assume it's broken in two._

 

It's actually in 3 pieces. I'm not sure it's fixable. I may have to try though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 james


----------



## joneeboi

jamess71:

 I feel your pain. I snapped the latch on the click wheel of my nano, and it took me almost a week to fix it. What the latch does is ensure contact between the copper pads on the board and in the ribbon cable. Try slipping some paper behind the ribbon cable as you slip it into the slot. You will have to experiment with different paper stiffness and thickness just to find the right fit. Fold it in two, four, or try construction paper, glossy photo paper, regular white paper. Photo paper might be good for it.

 KerryKing:

 I'm assuming you have Black Gates inside your dock connector. Make sure that the contacts are all solid, and ensure that none of the pins are touching each other. A strong connection from the DAC ought to give you 1.5VDC, so we know that at least some of the DC is being blocked. What size caps are you using? I'd say check your solder joints to see if nothing is touching anything it shouldn't be, and if you're using a dock connector with a shield, don't let anything touch the shield either. Try increasing the size of your caps and see if the problem goes away. If you don't have bigger caps, you can connect them in parallel where the capacitance is just the sum of the individual capacitances. My diyMods are working fine with 22uF.


----------



## KerryKing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_KerryKing:

 I'm assuming you have Black Gates inside your dock connector. Make sure that the contacts are all solid, and ensure that none of the pins are touching each other. A strong connection from the DAC ought to give you 1.5VDC, so we know that at least some of the DC is being blocked. What size caps are you using? I'd say check your solder joints to see if nothing is touching anything it shouldn't be, and if you're using a dock connector with a shield, don't let anything touch the shield either. Try increasing the size of your caps and see if the problem goes away. If you don't have bigger caps, you can connect them in parallel where the capacitance is just the sum of the individual capacitances. My diyMods are working fine with 22uF._

 

The blackgates is inside the ipod, but i will check my dock carefully again... i checked it yesterday with an ohmmeter and its no briges as it can find.
 I use the ordinary 47uF BGs

 I guess ill have to open up the ipod


----------



## jamess71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jamess71:

 I feel your pain. I snapped the latch on the click wheel of my nano, and it took me almost a week to fix it. What the latch does is ensure contact between the copper pads on the board and in the ribbon cable. Try slipping some paper behind the ribbon cable as you slip it into the slot. You will have to experiment with different paper stiffness and thickness just to find the right fit. Fold it in two, four, or try construction paper, glossy photo paper, regular white paper. Photo paper might be good for it.
_

 

Good idea. For some reason I was thinking there were contacts on both sides of the cable. So if they are only on the one side this should do the trick, I'll let you know.


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamess71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok guys I'm in a jam. I opened up my iPod yesterday to check out this project. 

 I broke the little latch that holds lcd screen cable in place. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I put it all back together hoping it didn't need that latch to make connectivity on that cable. Now my screen is just white. Where can I get one of these little latches? Thanks for any help. 

 James_

 

Well if you F#@k all latched up you can use hot glue gun for sealing up the ipod before closure for sure it is more water resistence if u seal it all round
 i hope this answer your Question


----------



## ruZZ.il

never mind this, was a redundant reply. joneeboi's got it covered. 

 btw jon, I think you've got a good idea, you just have to be prepared to back it up.. I think that will take a lot. I think you should play around with a few more pods before deciding whether to embark or not, and make sure you can supply consistent results, that you're willing to insure.


----------



## jamess71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jamess71:

 I feel your pain. I snapped the latch on the click wheel of my nano, and it took me almost a week to fix it. What the latch does is ensure contact between the copper pads on the board and in the ribbon cable. Try slipping some paper behind the ribbon cable as you slip it into the slot. You will have to experiment with different paper stiffness and thickness just to find the right fit. Fold it in two, four, or try construction paper, glossy photo paper, regular white paper. Photo paper might be good for it.

 ._

 


 Thanks I'll try it tonight and let you know.


----------



## joneeboi

I was revisiting the digital-out diyMod since things have somewhat settled down, and, depending on your definition of the word, it seems it's actually really straightforward. From what I can gather, the digital out I2S signal from the transports on CD players can only run so long before picking up interference and generally losing the signal, so we have the same problem with the diyMod. The digital out mod would be more for the extreme tweakers because first of all, you have to solder to the tiny QFN28 package's pins. That's not fun for any sane human being. Then you have to decide how to connect the signal to your DAC. I Googled the matter and I couldn't find any dedicated I2S connector; maybe someone can fill me in. In any case, the digital out mod would be very personalized as far as I understand, and it would be difficult to hammer out a universal method for everyone.

 First, a little context. The I2S standard in the iPod uses four signals: Master clock, Bit Clock, DACLRC (DAC audio interface left/right clock/clock out, and DAC data. You just need to solder some fine wires to these pins, send them to your DAC, and you're done. I'll have to do some work researching which popular DACs have I2S input and see how they connect, but at the very least, we can rehash the subject.


----------



## cfcubed

All the ipod PCBs I've seen around here have chips at DZP# locations connecting to lineouts at the dock connector.... It's DZP5 on my 3G & DZP2 on the 5G.

 The guides to date that route through dock connector lineouts appear to consider the removal of the 4 inductors near the dock as isolating/disconnecting the lineouts (my guide included - I also left that chip @ DZP# location intact - appears not to introduce L/R/G lineout route/resistance nor a route back to the CODEC in my brief tests).

 Before really committing to a process for this, we should know what that little guy is for
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess we're leaving the inclusion of resistor to ground & series resistor with our cap mods as optional (although they appear in various Wolfson info).

 BTW, I'd also consider 30 awg wire wrap as a *minimum* diameter wire since we are also trying to avoid/bypass the little, thin PCB traces w/this mod. For 3Gs & 4Gs I'd now consider 28 awg wire wrap wire (mouser had 100ft for like $12 I think) and as short routing as reasonable.


----------



## ruZZ.il

Opus DAC =D 

 ..I originally thought the alien dac for a second, but on second inspection I guess not.. i mean, the PCM2702 at-least.. ohwell, I had a flash of a perfect portable combo just go poof. poof.


----------



## EightTrack

_*x-post - hoping I could get some more help here*._ 

 To whomever can help me

 I have a 1700 Mah PDA batt lithium polymer 3.7V and I'm gonna drill a hole in the pod 4g/mini.
 planning on attaching the wires directly to the board
 now since the wires in the connector are set up different from the Ipods Ive pulled them free and am just gonna place them where they would go & then Hot glue them so they cant move.

 Ques is: would I be better off taking this battery and soldering it to a dock connector and use it that way (plugged into the bottom) / or the would the way I described above work better ? ..& would I be required to keep the OE batt. inside so that the PDA batt will work

 (dont imagine so cause it works plugged into the wall w/o a batt.)

 Thx.


----------



## joneeboi

If someone can reverse a USB to I2S converter, you might be able to do the Alien thing. Then again, you'd probably have a hard time finding that kind of product. Google hasn't shown anything, but if any of you know about that. But taking a look at the Opus briefly, it's kind of ironic you'd be bypassing the iPod's Wolfson for another. Of course, it's not just any Wolfson we're talking about in the Opus. Thanks for that, ruZZ.

 EightTrack:

 Use the dock connector. You'll thank yourself later, that is unless the hot glue forms into some sort of dock-connector shape.

 cfcubed:

 I think I'll pick up a roll each of the 28AWG wire wrapping spools on my next Mouser round up. Let's see what Digikey has first; their shipping is easier for me to swallow.

 I'll look further into the transistor-looking DZP device you were talking about.


----------



## EightTrack

*"Use the dock connector. You'll thank yourself later, that is unless the hot glue forms into some sort of dock-connector shape."
*
 haha thanks man that for sure seems the easiest way, although I wasnt reffering to gluing them directly to the dock sorry if thats the impression I gave. meant glue it to the board where the OE batt. would plug into. 

 Thanks a bunch 
 -8T


----------



## joneeboi

If I understand correctly, you want to remove the white pluggy part and just solder+hot glue the wires straight to the board; IOW, desoldering the female battery connector, soldering wires, etc. Do I have that right? I guess you could do that too, but it'd be more hassle replacing it or simply temporarily removing it for further diyModding if you do remove the battery connector. 
 Even for safety's sake, you'd want to remove the battery for maintenance. Maybe you're planning on holding your disrobed iPod in a long sheet of aluminum foil to just toss it from foil-covered hand to foil-covered hand. You simply can't do that if you permanently keep your battery wired in like that.


----------



## EightTrack

HAHA, Point well made & yes you had that correct minus the *(IOW)* cause I dont know what that means 

**********edit********
 looked into it and the oe pod batt. is 3.7v*

 been messing around w/ different config. and the best I can come up w/ is that the OE batt might be less Volts than the 1 I'm currently trying to use at 3.7v cause I cant get this to work regardless of where I place the wires on the board.

 Now I gotta wait for a dock connector to arrive (once I order it) 


 Thanks Joneeboi appreciate the help

 anychance anyone here knows which pins on the dock connector I would need to solder to just for charging purposes


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## CAvanessia

A few pages back a few of us made docks that can charge, play music, and sync at the same time. Look at the pin layouts on the iPod Linux site. You only need USB power + and -


----------



## joneeboi

My goodness, I think I totally misunderstood the question. You're trying to charge via the 30-pin dock connector? You're going to need some sort of voltage higher than 3.7VDC if you want to charge. Like Christine said, you could use a 5V USB supply. What I saw once on another site was some guy plugging a 9V into the FireWire V+ and GND to charge/add extra run time. For Firewire, you can leave pins in slots 19 and 20 for V+ and for pins 29 and 30 you use for GND. For USB power, use pin 23 for V+ and 15, 16 for GND. I don't know which standard charges more efficiently, but either way, I don't think your PDA battery will be able to fill the charging position. You could say it...can't...take charge...

 I have plenty more battery jokes where that one came from.


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cfcubed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guess we're leaving the inclusion of resistor to ground & series resistor with our cap mods as optional (although they appear in various Wolfson info)._

 

Talking to myself here, but I guess series resistors are not really desired even if they are in various Wolfson docs... They would serve to nullify most gains from fancy lineout cables, etc & is probably why RWA may be leaving them out.
 I *think* they are there for protection of the CODEC against lineout shorts.. Perhaps those can be eliminated or be much < 100 ohms to help SQ (at some risk?).

 The ones going to ground can probably be 47k -> 100k if they are used... I *think* they help to stabilize things based on lineout impedance/load.


----------



## joneeboi

I'll join in on the one-man convo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It isn't too hard to get high-quality resistors. I remember reading that the series resistor is for protecting the DAC if the line out is "used improperly." I don't know if this includes right channel shorts to ground when pulling out headphone jacks, but since we're working with the iPod's dock, it may not be as big a problem as it seems. The resistors to ground will, for one thing, stabilize impedance but also it's also meant to be part of a high-pass filter. With the coupling caps and resistor to ground, a high-pass filter is formed. You can use Kiwames or Stackpoles, but Kiwames come in pretty large power ratings. Stackpoles come in more comfortable sizes, but aren't as high quality. Some prefer one's sound, some the other. Reading the paper again, it'd be best to include the resistors. To make things easier, throw them in the dock connector if you can't find room inside the iPod, especially if you're using Kiwames.

 Summation: *sigh* Add resistors to ground after the caps. The paper cites 47K so that sound isn't so strongly affected by low impedance loads, but we probably won't be connecting our headphones straight to the DAC. *ahem powertoold* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Check out f = 1/(2*pi*R*C) for details.

 edit: I've revamped the original post for easier searching. Let me know what you all think.


----------



## Ramblingman

This is absolutely awesome guys, i just found this thread and cant get enough of it!! I will be trying this mod myself for sure, just one question... and i know it is probably a stupid one but i havent found it mentioned yet... will this mod work on the 5.5G ipod as well as the 5G ipod?


----------



## joneeboi

Your question is a valid one, as I have yet to see someone proclaim a diyModded 5.5G. My best guess is that it's possible since RWA did it. I can make a bunch of other assumptions, but that wouldn't be of very much use to you, would it? Open it up, let us know.


----------



## jamess71

As you guys know I broke the little tiny latch that holds the lcd screen cable in place. The moniter has no picture. It is a 5.5 80G video. I've come to my wits end with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does anybody want it for cheap? I'm sure one of you guys can fix, especially if you have pulled off the DIYmod. I'm thinking around $100 shipped. 

 James


----------



## EightTrack

* Quote:


  Originally Posted by joneeboi /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
My goodness, I think I totally misunderstood the question. You're trying to charge via the 30-pin dock connector? You're going to need some sort of voltage higher than 3.7VDC if you want to charge. Like Christine said, you could use a 5V USB supply. What I saw once on another site was some guy plugging a 9V into the FireWire V+ and GND to charge/add extra run time. For Firewire, you can leave pins in slots 19 and 20 for V+ and for pins 29 and 30 you use for GND. For USB power, use pin 23 for V+ and 15, 16 for GND. I don't know which standard charges more efficiently, but either way, I don't think your PDA battery will be able to fill the charging position. You could say it...can't...take charge...

 I have plenty more battery jokes where that one came from.

 

*

 yea that was it sorry im piss poor when it comes to explaining things, what Im trying to do is make this batt. work so that I can Rockbox the mini and have something that'll last a while when I bus / fly / train it from state to state to visit friends and not have to carry a bunch of **** around (chargers,cables etc...I like to travel w/ as little as possible)
 and I only need minimal music for these trips and the compact mini fits perfect in my pocket w/ my knife and a few other things 

 but regardless of where I place the wires on the little white connector I cant get it to turn on so I was thinking I could plug it in through the bottom and it would allow me to play for however long the batt lasts. so far I have been proven wrong but havent given up yet. as you can tell im really new to all of this but we all gotta start somewhere

 thanks for all your help Guys & Gal

 also since you said it would take 5v to charge this is just a thought...but couldnt I just go out and buy a batt thats say 1700mah (guestimate) at 5v ? and then solder to a dock connector for back up / charging purposes ?
 now I dont know if such a batt. exists or if this is just an assinine thought I'm just putting it out there


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamess71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As you guys know I broke the little tiny latch that holds the lcd screen cable in place. The moniter has no picture. It is a 5.5 80G video. I've come to my wits end with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does anybody want it for cheap? I'm sure one of you guys can fix, especially if you have pulled off the DIYmod. I'm thinking around $100 shipped. 

 James_

 

can pict and share here what it's look like (the damage latch)...thx !


----------



## jamess71

thanks for all the help in this matter. I gave up and sold it to cfcubed. He was the first of many interested in it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ordered a Cowon A3 60G. I can't wait. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Later
 james


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll join in on the one-man convo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It isn't too hard to get high-quality resistors. I remember reading that the series resistor is for protecting the DAC if the line out is "used improperly." I don't know if this includes right channel shorts to ground when pulling out headphone jacks, but since we're working with the iPod's dock, it may not be as big a problem as it seems. The resistors to ground will, for one thing, stabilize impedance but also it's also meant to be part of a high-pass filter. With the coupling caps and resistor to ground, a high-pass filter is formed. You can use Kiwames or Stackpoles, but Kiwames come in pretty large power ratings. Stackpoles come in more comfortable sizes, but aren't as high quality. Some prefer one's sound, some the other. Reading the paper again, it'd be best to include the resistors. To make things easier, throw them in the dock connector if you can't find room inside the iPod, especially if you're using Kiwames.

 Summation: *sigh* Add resistors to ground after the caps. The paper cites 47K so that sound isn't so strongly affected by low impedance loads, but we probably won't be connecting our headphones straight to the DAC. *ahem powertoold* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Check out f = 1/(2*pi*R*C) for details.

 edit: I've revamped the original post for easier searching. Let me know what you all think._

 

After thinking this through with reference to the Wolfson sheets, I've come to the conclusion that "improper use" is something more sinister than shorts upon headphone removal since the schematic for the headphone out don't include these resistors. Given their small size compared to the load impedance, they have a minimal effect of the filter corner frequency so I don't think that's what they're for. My guess would be to protect the DAC from accidentally plugging a source into the line-out jack (i.e. two voltage sources shorted together). It's just a guess though. 
 Going back to the original post on this topic, I don't think removing the "Z" things or the dock inductors will have any ill effect since they are not included in the Wolfson schematics. I doubt anything on the ipod would be hurt since we are essentially disconnecting the line-out dock pins and using them for another purpose.


----------



## joneeboi

I'm glad you could add your insights. Paralleling voltage sources would definitely not be a good idea, but as long as we're using dock connectors going to male output plugs, you'd have to go out of your way to destroy the DAC.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm glad you could add your insights. Paralleling voltage sources would definitely not be a good idea, but as long as we're using dock connectors going to male output plugs, *you'd have to go out of your way to destroy the DAC.*_

 

Is that a challenge? *Plugging DAC into 120V outlet*
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yea, I agree that it's definitely safe with the dock connector as long as you unplug the dock connector and not the male plug first.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that a challenge? *Plugging DAC into 120V outlet*
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yea, I agree that it's definitely safe with the dock connector *as long as you unplug the dock connector and not the male plug first*._

 

How do you figure?


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you figure?_

 

Not being sure what gets shorted to what upon plug removal, I could see the male plug on a Dock->Male Plug interconnect shorting ground to one of the channels (can you short two bands on the plug?). It just seems safer to disconnect the dock first and prevent any kind of shorting... but then that brings me back to the fact that the Wolfson schematic for headphones doesn't include resistors so it doesn't matter? I don't really know
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd rather play it safe and disconnect the dock first, but that's just me.
 BTW: I've seen a few of your threads... good stuff! Thanks for all the info.


----------



## joneeboi

Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah, that makes sense. Disconnecting the dock connector doesn't short anything, but taking out the male mini shorts the right channel to ground. That really applies to general iPod dock use, not just to the diyMod. Good idea, though.


----------



## joneeboi

Discussion on diyMod digital out continues. Follow along at http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/diy-ipod-digital-out-288449/.


----------



## iQEM

i like the last post of yours there, anyway my nu clickwheel had arrived & i had replace the old one...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




now my Nano back to works, have to finish the mod right away...


----------



## FallenAngel

Hey guys,

 Great thread! I just did my 5G video mod this morning, took about 20 minutes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sounds fantastic.

 I did a stupid thing by using 24AWG solid silver wire and lifted the pad beside the DAC because the wire was too stiff and it just ripped off. Luckily I was able to grab a 26AWG gold plated copper wire and attach it straight to the leg on the chip and got it working.

 A couple of quick question - how do you keep the internal headphone amp working? I'm guessing if you don't remove the 2 caps and simply run wires to the dock connector while removing L2 and L3. Has anybody done this?


----------



## joneeboi

Good to see more people enjoying this mod. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I, too, had the problem of the pad being lifted due to bad wiring. It is a pain, but soldering to the chip isn't all that bad. How did that 26AWG work out for you? And how is your faceplate relative pre-diyMod? Using 32AWG, the faceplate lifted quite a bit and produced a little dip in the click wheel region.

 You're right about the internal headphone amp, though. Keeping the caps in place right after the DAC would allow it to keep running, but might I ask why you'd want to do that? You'd have overall greater power consumption, signal degradation, etc. As far as I know, that's where all the circuitry is lying though it hasn't been fleshed out by anyone, which I'm guessing would be near impossible due to the multilayer PCB. Then there's the issue cfcubed brought up about the DZP-labeled transistors. For all we know, those are the opamps that RWA mentioned on the iMod page that is contributing to the signal loss, so maybe those guys have got to go as well. From what can be seen in the 5G photos on the OP, the sound goes into them, but where they go, no one knows.


 iQEM:

 Keep chugging along, brother. We've all been waiting a long time for you to finish that diyMod nano! Give it a couple hours work and you'll finally get to join the club.


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## KoKoKrunch

Have I posted that DiyMod sounds the same as iMod??? I forgot if I posted about the comparison already.


----------



## wgr73

Lol, its still good to know. I love hearing comparisons against the imod!


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Really, I even compared normal iPod to iMod, with an average setup, you'll never know if I modded it or not.* (Note: tested with 4G iPod) My verdict bout the iMod is just a simple mod which does nothing huge but with truckloads of hype. It may be my ears, but if there are differences I can hear it. Bleh, nothing against our DIYMod committee here, I've done the mod myself and I'm just thinking out loud. =) *snip*_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*snip* Asked someone that is trust-able to do a comparison today. *DIYMod vs iMod has no difference*. He only noticed that soundstage was slightly lesser, while bass was boomier for DIYMod, and we concluded it was the wire inside. Mine is standard copper, his was Cryogenic copper._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I managed to get someone who had the iMod to lend it to me for some listening, but I could only find a few songs I know on his iPod. He was in a rush as well so I couldn't listen for long. My impression is that, the iMod has very very slightly deeper midrange and bass than mine, however it was quite an unfair comparison considering he probably has his music on lossless and mine on 192 kbps. Also, cause he was rushing off, I wasn't really in a right state of mind to do a calm comparison, I might be wrong because the difference I heard was so so so small. And i only clocked about 130 hours of burn in, when supposedly supposed to go for 200... I will definitely do a comparison again. *But overall, my verdict is that iMod's reviews are mostly over-exaggerated.*

 He listened to my mod as well, his feedback is that the bass although not as powerful as the one from headphone out, it is more controlled and the clarity is better(which is expected because the headphone out is known not to have exceptional clarity). However, comparing hp out to dock line out, I would say, like most people do that the hp out on 4G iPod is already good as compared to those new gens, so the rather *inaudible difference *that I am hearing in terms of SQ might be explained by that probably._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay my set up is actually pretty average. I'm using my above average desktop speakers which has an amp. Both jacks are plugged into that amp which has AUX channel and the Main channel so it allows me to switch channels easily. For the "showdown" though, I will be going to an audio shop to do it, and I'm most probably gonna use the studio monitoring speakers they have setup there. That might say more bout the mod. I know my setup isn't really good, but because of all the reviews maybe my expectations were abit too high, that's why *I was disappointed at the almost undetectable difference *it made when I hooked it up. Perhaps it's my room too, it's not very optimized for sound. So yeah, once I do the comparison, I will tell you guys bout the results for sure. It'll be iMod vs DIYMod vs iPod hopefully. Good luck to me/us!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I know there are different factors that are involved... but *I'm just kinda disappointed at the minimal difference that I'm hearing*, instead of what everyone seems to be hearing. I'm a little worried because my friend and I arranged for a iMod vs DIYMod "showdown" this week lol. But well... I will probably find more discerning ears to try it out. *snip*_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have I posted that *DiyMod sounds the same as iMod*??? I forgot if I posted about the comparison already._

 

I think you've made your point.


----------



## CAvanessia

I acquired a 1G 4gb Mini and will experiment when I have time and money to buy more stuff. I really want to mod my 5.5G or buy another one to experiment =D


----------



## joneeboi

Sounds good, Christine. Do you still have those extra BGs you had from before? If not, I can send you a pair or so.

 Actually, I just picked up a friend's broken iPod 3G last night for $50. The 15GB hard drive on it was fried, but somehow I was able to squeeze in my old 4G's 20GB hard drive. It's so awesome. I love the front panel on the 3G and the red buttons when I turn on the backlight. The only downside is that it doesn't charge via USB or my laptop's 4-pin FireWire port, but there isn't any power on that connector anyway. It'll probably be my home rig diyMod. I just ordered an 1100mAh battery for it, and I just got a new shipment of BGs in yesterday. Let the modding begin!


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM:

 Keep chugging along, brother. We've all been waiting a long time for you to finish that diyMod nano! Give it a couple hours work and you'll finally get to join the club. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

well yes, maybe a lil bit to long to finish the whole work...now my progress are change the lod (with BG inside) to have jack female, so i can use whatever cable interconnect that i need/want...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 1 lod for everything...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you've made your point. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yes, very nice indeed...so diyMod are really worth to do, isn't it ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I acquired a 1G 4gb Mini and will experiment when I have time and money to buy more stuff. I really want to mod my 5.5G or buy another one to experiment =D_

 

just buy smaller solder eye then you can go on with your new Mini, sis...goodluck !


----------



## cfcubed

Thought I'd add my final(?) ideas on this goodness now that my 3G / 22uf BG DIYMod has > 150 hrs on it:

 * Comparing w/unmodded 5G using same headamp/phones/etc & just swapping dock connector, for my nearly 1/2-century-old ears & poorly mastered music, I believe I perceive some improvement in the 3G DIYmodded sound. I'd use unquantifiable, heady words to describe the diff (musicality, soundstage & such) but I'm not that kind of guy. I'd doubt significance in a double-blind test (for *myself*). BUT as the specs for 3G codec are much "worse" than the 5G this is saying something.

 * Having now seen the insides of a 5.5G I'd be thrilled to just be able to get one back together w/o mods & not see a pre/post surgery difference... IMHO I'd do big HD 4Gs, use 28awg wirewrap wire w/47uf BGs (more effect than 22ufs?) & maybe 50-100k loading & 30-50ohm series protection resistors (assuming internal mod wanted)

 * I'd wager that if you cannot tell the diff between high bitrate rips (200kbs+) and lossless, you'd have a hard time noticing improvement w/this mod. IOW I guess hi-Q source & downstream components (headamp, phones) make a good prerequisite.

 * What you listen to may matter most... Most of my music is recent and mastered way too hot, so I'm forced to forego lossless for most of it & go 200kbs+ using MP3GAIN to temper the rampant clipping.

 So I support the statements that a major benefit of doing this mod is its cost ($$ not $$$) and peace of mind that you are getting a "purer" signal. 

 Being a frugal conservative guy on a budget, I'd consider this on cheap/sacrificial large HD 4Gs (better codec than 3Gs) even if it requires selling a 5G to get one.

 To each his own though & it's all fun & games until your iPod gets hurt
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 N.B. Another reason I'm steering clear of 5/5.5G DIYmods & non-internal caps is my worry that an iPod lineout w/o DC blocking caps would be a ticking timebomb around my house... Sooner or later that lineout (w/loads of DC offset) might be plugged into a device that couldn't handle it. Granted most all line-level inputs are protected w/couplers & such, but it still makes me wary. Again, to each his/her own. Good luck.


----------



## joneeboi

Just finished my diyMod 3G. Throwing those BGs was kinda tricky at first, but it went down okay. I fit the caps on either side of the hold switch lever, taped them down, it's all good. Burning in now.

 I agree about the 5G's vulnerability due to external capping. d_w31, the one whose iPod 5G I diyModded, wanted me to check his iPod speaker dock so he could use it safely. One of the great things about the diyMod is that you can personalize it to your own uses. For instance, the loading and series resistors don't have to be implemented by everyone, and caps can fit to your sound tastes. If the diyMod will always be used with a high input impedance amplifier, the resistors to ground aren't required. They are meant to reduce the effects of hooking up a low impedance load to the DAC, so if you're always using a low impedance load or always using a high impedance load, they can be omitted. For series resistors, they are meant to protect the DAC from misuse, which we have inconclusively concluded to be from paralleling voltage sources with the DAC. If you're going to be docking your diyMod, you can use bigger caps than the BGs for different sound flavouring. And not only different cap brands but also different cap configs, much like vvs_75's Auricap and CAvanessia's Sonicap dock. cfcubed has chosen his path of diyModding, and that's great because it serves his needs. Glad to hear you're enjoying it, buddy.

 An idea I was floating in my head was doing a dual diyMod, where you send a BG'd signal to the headphone jack and sever the existing signal. This Wolfson paper suggests using 220uF caps with a 32ohm load, but fitting that size caps in any of the iPods isn't practical. What I've thought of is taking the headphone signal (not the line out signal, the one controlled by the click wheel) and putting a 1kohm resistor after the cap. Stackpoles come in sufficiently small packages, so it won't be too hard fitting it in, say, the diyMod 4G or iPod 4G. I addressed this matter because I gave my dad my Mini^3 since it was smaller than the PIMETA I made him, so now I'm listening to my iPod unamped. As such, the bass rolloff is pretty distracting when I'm used to listening to the Mini^3's flat FR. I'm not sure what exactly is going on in between the DAC and HP jack, but if I can just yank the signal and personalize it for flatter bass response, I could enjoy my diyMod even further. Some of you may want to also consider it.


----------



## BrinNutz

Ok,

 I see one pic for the Photo 4th Gen...

 It shows where to solder my wires, but then where do I go after that? Did I just read over it to quickly?

 Thanks!!!


----------



## joneeboi

Yeah, sorry about that lack of clarity. That one photo was actually done by the iPodlinux guys, and vvs_75 showed the ones from which we obtain the signal. KerryKing has a website featuring some of his DIY work, so check it out at Erik's and Sven's DIY page under "Erik's Gallery." It seems to be identical to the 4G click wheel, but I'll post it in the OP for future reference. Thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## KerryKing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, sorry about that lack of clarity. That one photo was actually done by the iPodlinux guys, and vvs_75 showed the ones from which we obtain the signal. KerryKing has a website featuring some of his DIY work, so check it out at Erik's and Sven's DIY page under "Erik's Gallery." It seems to be identical to the 4G click wheel, but I'll post it in the OP for future reference. Thanks for pointing that out.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps_at_dock.jpg_

 

I still dont have that 4G upp and running 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 have not had time for the testing due to new family members taking up my time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What i have is a DC-offset problem, but i hope to get clarity of this problem during the weekend


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Hahaha, Jon, how long did it take to find all those posts!?


----------



## joneeboi

It wasn't that hard. Just use the Search function and put in "KoKoKrunch" for the username and "iMod" in the search terms. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How much offset are you getting, Kerry? There are only 4 solder points you really need to make (take signal, to cap, out of cap, dock connector), so if it's in the tenth-of-a-millivolt range, it could just be the DMM. Your pictures seem to show pretty solid connections, so it could just be that. Try it with different caps to see if the problem is the onboard solder joints. Sometimes those pads can be difficult to work with, so see if you can find any equivalent pads to which you can solder your wires.


----------



## KerryKing

Im getting quite alot of the DC-offset :/ aprox 0.5V i think...
 I will take off the Caps and measure to make sure. Hope i get time tomorrow


----------



## BrinNutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, sorry about that lack of clarity. That one photo was actually done by the iPodlinux guys, and vvs_75 showed the ones from which we obtain the signal. KerryKing has a website featuring some of his DIY work, so check it out at Erik's and Sven's DIY page under "Erik's Gallery." It seems to be identical to the 4G click wheel, but I'll post it in the OP for future reference. Thanks for pointing that out.




_

 


 Thanks!! 

 But I'm not too clear on where to solder the wires to the small piece there. What connections do I use? The pic isn't very clear, at least for the black wire.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It wasn't that hard. Just use the Search function and put in "KoKoKrunch" for the username and "iMod" in the search terms. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How much offset are you getting, Kerry? There are only 4 solder points you really need to make (take signal, to cap, out of cap, dock connector), so if it's in the tenth-of-a-millivolt range, it could just be the DMM. Your pictures seem to show pretty solid connections, so it could just be that. Try it with different caps to see if the problem is the onboard solder joints. Sometimes those pads can be difficult to work with, so see if you can find any equivalent pads to which you can solder your wires._

 


 I'm confused now, so is the mod posted for the 4G Photo for the LOD or for the headphone jack.

 I'm trying to find some Black Gates right now do to the mod there, but having trouble finding them. Are these it? 
http://www.musicaldesign.com/images/47_6R3HIQ.jpg

 BlackGate NX-HIQ 47uF/6.3V radial 6.3mm x 7mm x 2mm $3.95

 I'm not to clear on if this mod is using the headphone jack or the LOD either...




 I guess I am really just confused as to what the differences is between the 4th Gen click wheel and the 4G photo. It seems like there are 2 different soldering places on the board, no? I want to use the headphone out jack because I have a Zune also, so that would minimize having to buy another cable.


----------



## BrinNutz

Ok, I have takin pics of my PCD in my 4G Ipod Photo.

 I am awaiting to find a good deal on a MK6006GAH to replace the dead MK3006GAL that was originally in it, so I thought about doing this mod.

 I need to get : Solder (really thin right?), a soldering gun (with a really fine tip correct?), some good 30AWG wire (right?)??

 I am also thinking of doing the capacitor mod with these :
http://www.musicaldesign.com/images/47_6R3HIQ.jpg

 BlackGate NX-HIQ 47uF/6.3V radial 6.3mm x 7mm x 2mm $3.95

 But, I am going sum up my posts, for the most part.

 I am unclear of where to solder/desolder original parts, to use the headphone out jack with the capacitor mod (if possible).

 Here is a pic of the two places that I see people soldering (pic is of my Ipod Photo 4G.






 Now, do I use the one on the right or the left in that pic? and if it's on the right, which is R and which is L?

 Thanks!!!


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrinNutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I have takin pics of my PCD in my 4G Ipod Photo.



 1. I need to get : Solder (*really thin right?*), 
 2. *a soldering gun (with a really fine tip correct?)*
 3. some good *30AWG wire (right?)*??



 I am also thinking of doing the capacitor mod with these :
http://www.musicaldesign.com/images/47_6R3HIQ.jpg

 BlackGate NX-HIQ 47uF/6.3V radial 6.3mm x 7mm x 2mm $3.95_

 

1. Thin solder could help, it just depends on how careful you are. If your really good with soldering you could use thicker solder...if not use thin solder. 

 2.I would get a soldering iron, it will be much easier to work with instead of a gun.

 3. 30AWG is probably your best bet. Though other modders have gotten away with 28AWG i think. Its up to you...just make sure its small enough to maneuver.


----------



## ruZZ.il

I'm wondering if anyone has a spare set of the BG NX 6.3V 47uF that they could part with, for price or price+a buck or 2, plus shipping, of course. Much appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrinNutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need to get : Solder (really thin right?), a soldering gun (with a really fine tip correct?), some good 30AWG wire (right?)??_

 

i) You don't necessarily need thin solder, but it is easier to work with.

 ii) The finer the tip on your soldering gun, the better for this project. But if you're planning on using it for further DIY, don't get the finest tip as it won't be as versatile. Get a good temp-controlled soldering gun from Weller so you can have multiple tips for different soldering occasions.

 iii) Anything finer than 26 AWG has worked so far.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrinNutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am also thinking of doing the capacitor mod with these :
http://www.musicaldesign.com/images/47_6R3HIQ.jpg

 BlackGate NX-HIQ 47uF/6.3V radial 6.3mm x 7mm x 2mm $3.95_

 

Those are kind of pricey, though for a pair it won't hurt too much. Check 9.4.0 at post #1 for alternative vendors.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrinNutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am unclear of where to solder/desolder original parts, to use the headphone out jack with the capacitor mod (if possible).

 Here is a pic of the two places that I see people soldering (pic is of my Ipod Photo 4G.






 Now, do I use the one on the right or the left in that pic? and if it's on the right, which is R and which is L?_

 

In your image, the left rectangle is where you get the signal from. Desolder those resistors and test if the signal is working before you close up shop. The leftmost resistor is the right channel and the rightmost is the left channel. In the 4G click wheel non-photo, you have to desolder caps to get the signal, and they're placed right where the caps are in your image. But since we're dealing with the iPod photo, you take the signal from the resistors. Consult the following image,






 If you're hoping to send the signal to the headphone jack, it shouldn't matter what is going on at the bottom connectors. But if you're still curious, the signal is sent to the pads labeled L2 and L3, with L2 being right and L3 being the left channel.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm wondering if anyone has a spare set of the BG NX 6.3V 47uF that they could part with, for price or price+a buck or 2, plus shipping, of course. Much appreciated. Thanks._

 

YGPM.


----------



## BrinNutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i) You don't necessarily need thin solder, but it is easier to work with.

 ii) The finer the tip on your soldering gun, the better for this project. But if you're planning on using it for further DIY, don't get the finest tip as it won't be as versatile. Get a good temp-controlled soldering gun from Weller so you can have multiple tips for different soldering occasions.

 iii) Anything finer than 26 AWG has worked so far._

 

Ok, I'll look...need cheap stuff..What type of wire is best, silver, copper? Does it matter?


  Quote:


 Those are kind of pricey, though for a pair it won't hurt too much. Check 9.4.0 at post #1 for alternative vendors. 
 

I bought them already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well..I bought 6 in case anyone needed them...or if I mod anymore iPods. =)


  Quote:


 In your image, the left rectangle is where you get the signal from. Desolder those resistors and test if the signal is working before you close up shop. The leftmost resistor is the right channel and the rightmost is the left channel. In the 4G click wheel non-photo, you have to desolder caps to get the signal, and they're placed right where the caps are in your image. But since we're dealing with the iPod photo, you take the signal from the resistors. Consult the following image, 
 

Ok, so in my image, the leftmost rectangle is where I should desolder the resistors, then does it matter what side I solder my wire to? There would be 2 points per resistor where I could re-solder back on, correct?


 Now, looking @ KoKoKrunch's pic here :





 He soldered the capacitors in different spots.

 But, as I understand it, I don't need to use those two spots since I have a Photo 4G, I use the one in the left rectangle of my pic to solder the capacitors to. Then, I solder wire to the capacitors, then solder again to capacitors again and then to L2 and L3 spots.
 This will then allow me to have audio out of headphone jack with clarity.

 Is that correct?

 Or does this mod I said above give me the sound out of the LOD? I'm confused again.

 Thanks alot btw for the help!

  Quote:


 If you're hoping to send the signal to the headphone jack, it shouldn't matter what is going on at the bottom connectors. But if you're still curious, the signal is sent to the pads labeled L2 and L3, with L2 being right and L3 being the left channel.


----------



## joneeboi

I believe gold is the best conductor, but it's restrictively expensive. At these small lengths, it won't make that much of a difference.

 As for which side of the desoldered resistor pads you need, I couldn't tell you. The only sure way to find out is to check with your DMM if there is 0 ohms between the resistor pad and the leg of the WM8975.

 If you want the signal in the headphone jack, solder the wire to the headphone jack. If you want the signal in both the dock and the headphone jack, send two sets of wires out of the cap: one to the L2 and L3 spots, one to the headphone jack.


----------



## BrinNutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe gold is the best conductor, but it's restrictively expensive. At these small lengths, it won't make that much of a difference.

 As for which side of the desoldered resistor pads you need, I couldn't tell you. The only sure way to find out is to check with your DMM if there is 0 ohms between the resistor pad and the leg of the WM8975.

 If you want the signal in the headphone jack, solder the wire to the headphone jack. If you want the signal in both the dock and the headphone jack, send two sets of wires out of the cap: one to the L2 and L3 spots, one to the headphone jack._

 

Ok, so to test them, is there a "specific" leg on the WM8975 I need to use? And what setting on my DMM should I use? 

 Where do I solder to the headphone jack? I'm a little lost as to which points to solder onto there are 2 points.

 R9 and R10. I believe those might be it, but don't know which would be L or R..


----------



## joneeboi

Check the datasheet on the Wolfson WM8971.


----------



## BrinNutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check the datasheet on the Wolfson WM8971.
_

 

K...Thanks!

 Hopefully I get this right....

 Now for another one. I can run the wires to the LOD and the headphone jack coming off of the capacitors, correct?

 As in:

 Wolfson>BG capacitor> wires to dock and wires to headphone jack.

 That's how I think it may work best...Am I correct?


 I read the datasheet and found pin 4 and 19 are the digital and analogue grounds, respectively.

 Now, before de-soldering the L and R connections near the chip, I put my DMM on either side of each resistor (I think that's what those are), and I get a reading (using the 200K setting on the DMM), and was getting reading's of 1,000-1,200 on either side of each. I'm thinking this may be because of them still connected that the readings aren't changing. But I don't know.

 When I do take them off (tomorrow) and I get a reading of 0 on one of them, that would mean it's the GND correct?


----------



## joneeboi

What you're looking for is continuity between the analogue out pins of the Wolfson and the resistors, R900 and R903. From the closeup image from ipodlinux, you probably want the south end of those resistor spots. And sending the signal to the headphone jack and the line out is a viable solution. It may not be the best necessarily, but as long as it serves your needs as closely as possible, it is the best solution.


----------



## BrinNutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What you're looking for is continuity between the analogue out pins of the Wolfson and the resistors, R900 and R903. From the closeup image from ipodlinux, you probably want the south end of those resistor spots. And sending the signal to the headphone jack and the line out is a viable solution. It may not be the best necessarily, but as long as it serves your needs as closely as possible, it is the best solution._

 

Thank you!!!

 I will be working on this tonight..at least the desoldering of the resistors..I'll post pics!

 Waiting on the BG caps and needing to get some 30AWG wire....


----------



## cfcubed

Not to offend anyone, and this is just IMHO of course, but a DIYmod probably does not make a good first project of this sort. I'd expect one to be quite handy w/a soldering iron & have at least a couple builds of some kind under their belt before attempting this. At least maybe practice on a junker PCB w/SMD parts... Combing through this thread & that of similarly intricate projects shows what can go (horribly?) wrong.

 Again, just an opinion & sure if one has a sacrificial ipod, or one already having issues, and wants a challenge/adventure - whatever. But if someone wants a DIYmod, has the resources but doesn't want the risk assoc w/doing one, there may be builders around willing to assist directly w/the work (other than myself at the moment


----------



## KoKoKrunch

I've actually replaced those copper wires in my photo with Silver/Gold alloys, I tore out one of the solder pads(L3) when I snapped it back because of the tight dimensions. Luckily those small circular unused pads with no apparent use on the iPod were there to save my life. 

 I can't wait to test it out again and see if there's any difference, I've accepted that my setup sucks, so there's no point testing them myself. But, I've actually heard a tiny difference(sounds richer) between headphone out and LOD with my BOSE speakers.


----------



## iQEM

guys, please...i need your opinion, i made lod for my DIYmod nano right now...i've made mini to mini interconnect + dock with female jack, here's the picts of it...












 is it a good idea ? what i want is 1 dock for every cable that i need...i'll make another interconnect cables, like mini to RCA, mini to big jack and so on...


----------



## iQEM

here's the progress of the lod female jack...the body size of female jack are too big to place inside lod...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i must think somethin else to make it more nice (to see)...


----------



## wgr73

Thats your choice iQEM. Some around may say that it is just more connections but it probably wont make that huge of a difference. I personally like to avoid doing that sort of thing if possible, but it really is up to you.


----------



## ruZZ.il

iQEM: I think so, I mean, some may try use as little connections as possible, but I really dont think it would make a huge difference unless with a very revealing system. naturally, try keep things built well with decent wire and stuff, and you should be good. If I may make a recommendation though: placement and routing are very important. I think you should place the caps in a way that suit their physical environment, and bend their leads in perfect rout. maybe figure out the best placement, bend the leads to be in the perfect positions, glue the caps in place, everything should be solid for a good long time. also, use some heat shrink in there, it'll keep things neat and the shorts away. take a look here to see what I mean:


----------



## CAvanessia

looking good iQEM

 it looks like a really tight fit with the BGs and female jack. Plus it looks like if you press hard on the jack it might disturb the BGs. You could just give up the idea of a completely internal female jack and go with one that is slightly external.

 Like ipod connector -> BG -> wires -> very short external female jack/ This way you won't put pressure on the BGs. Just my opinion.


----------



## BrinNutz

Here's my removal of the Resistors.

 Looks like the I went a little too far on the one, but I don't think I need that side anyways...=)

 This is for Ipod 4G Photo..





 Can't really see it that well...I'll try another pic/angle


 Edit:

 Here we are..






 I tested the resistance @ each of the 4 pts using pin #14 on the Wolfson chip as ground (labeled AGND on data sheet).


 When I put the positive end of my DMM on the "south" end of the closeup image from ipodlinux, with my DMM set to the 2000kΩ position, I get a reading around 600kΩ, for both south ends of each spot. When I move to the "north" end, I get a reading around 160kΩ on the same setting (2000kΩ).
 Does the "higher" reading of the "south end" mean that that is where I should solder my wire to for the mod? I feel pretty confident that it is, but would like to double check.. Thanks!


----------



## joneeboi

Good work, iQEM and BrinNutz. Even at this stage of the project, it's great to still people making progress with their diyMods. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 iQEM:

 Why not go with a dock connector with mini connector out? I'd just skip the female jack altogether, but that's just me. When you use the mini jack and the mini-mini cord (with F12s of all connectors), you increase the chance of damaging your dock. There's more torque acting on the dock, so that's something you have to consider if you keep this setup. My advice is either remove the female jack or order a smaller one. fordgtlover made an iPod connector and it fit okay, though he didn't have Black Gates in it. I don't know which mini female jack he uses, but maybe someone else here will recognize it, or you can PM him.

 cfcubed:

 Adding disclaimer/warning now...


----------



## BrinNutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cfcubed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not to offend anyone, and this is just IMHO of course, but a DIYmod probably does not make a good first project of this sort. I'd expect one to be quite handy w/a soldering iron & have at least a couple builds of some kind under their belt before attempting this. At least maybe practice on a junker PCB w/SMD parts... Combing through this thread & that of similarly intricate projects shows what can go (horribly?) wrong.

 Again, just an opinion & sure if one has a sacrificial ipod, or one already having issues, and wants a challenge/adventure - whatever. But if someone wants a DIYmod, has the resources but doesn't want the risk assoc w/doing one, there may be builders around willing to assist directly w/the work (other than myself at the moment
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I hear ya...But....This is my first time, with a soldering iron, I don't think I did too horribly bad!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good work, iQEM and BrinNutz. Even at this stage of the project, it's great to still people making progress with their diyMods. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, hope I didn't do too bad!!


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrinNutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tested the resistance @ each of the 4 pts using pin #14 on the Wolfson chip as ground (labeled AGND on data sheet).


 When I put the positive end of my DMM on the "south" end of the closeup image from ipodlinux, with my DMM set to the 2000kΩ position, I get a reading around 600kΩ, for both south ends of each spot. When I move to the "north" end, I get a reading around 160kΩ on the same setting (2000kΩ).
 Does the "higher" reading of the "south end" mean that that is where I should solder my wire to for the mod? I feel pretty confident that it is, but would like to double check.. Thanks!_

 

If the south end of the resistors read any resistance, then they aren't necessarily connected to the same ground as pin 14 (I'm not sure all the ground planes are connected to each other). Another check you can do is checking the voltage of the south end of the resistors relative to pin 14 with the iPod switched on. If they have the same voltage, then you can be fairly certain that it is ground. Either way, what you should have been checking this whole time was continuity between the audio pins and the south pads, not between them and AGND at pin 14. If they have 0 ohms, then you grab the signals from those pads. A simpler way of doing that is soldering wires straight to the Wolfson DAC, but not everyone believes in doing things the simple way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What strange people we all are.


----------



## BrinNutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the south end of the resistors read any resistance, then they aren't necessarily connected to the same ground as pin 14 (I'm not sure all the ground planes are connected to each other). Another check you can do is checking the voltage of the south end of the resistors relative to pin 14 with the iPod switched on. If they have the same voltage, then you can be fairly certain that it is ground. Either way, what you should have been checking this whole time was continuity between the audio pins and the south pads, not between them and AGND at pin 14. If they have 0 ohms, then you grab the signals from those pads. A simpler way of doing that is soldering wires straight to the Wolfson DAC, but not everyone believes in doing things the simple way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What strange people we all are._

 

I understand now.

 But with the setting still @ 2000kΩ the lowest I get on both south end when connected to each respective audio terminal @ the headphone jack is about 180kΩ.

 When connected to the north terminal and each respective audio terminal @ the headphone jack I'm reading about 600kΩ.

 Is it safe to assume that the the 180kΩ is supposed to be 0kΩ or it's close enough that it could just be the error on the DMM? (Accuracy according to the manual is +/- 1.0% reading + 2 digits on the 2000kΩ setting).


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats your choice iQEM. Some around may say that it is just more connections but it probably wont make that huge of a difference. I personally like to avoid doing that sort of thing if possible, but it really is up to you._

 

i c, thax for your input mate...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM: I think so, I mean, some may try use as little connections as possible, but I really dont think it would make a huge difference unless with a very revealing system. naturally, try keep things built well with decent wire and stuff, and you should be good. If I may make a recommendation though: placement and routing are very important. I think you should place the caps in a way that suit their physical environment, and bend their leads in perfect rout. maybe figure out the best placement, bend the leads to be in the perfect positions, glue the caps in place, everything should be solid for a good long time. also, use some heat shrink in there, it'll keep things neat and the shorts away. take a look here to see what I mean:


_

 

well, i'm not finish yet though..still figure out what most suite with my needs, and yes i plan to do as nicests as you dock too but using female jack...after i finish testing on the lod i'll seal the dock body with glue so the caps unharm in place, and the female jack too...but thx for reminding me for those awesome dock of yours...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_looking good iQEM

 it looks like a really tight fit with the BGs and female jack. Plus it looks like if you press hard on the jack it might disturb the BGs. You could just give up the idea of a completely internal female jack and go with one that is slightly external.

 Like ipod connector -> BG -> wires -> very short external female jack/ This way you won't put pressure on the BGs. Just my opinion._

 

well i can place the female more front than before and seal with with glue, is it a good idea ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good work, iQEM and BrinNutz. Even at this stage of the project, it's great to still people making progress with their diyMods. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 iQEM:

 Why not go with a dock connector with mini connector out? I'd just skip the female jack altogether, but that's just me. When you use the mini jack and the mini-mini cord (with F12s of all connectors), you increase the chance of damaging your dock. There's more torque acting on the dock, so that's something you have to consider if you keep this setup. My advice is either remove the female jack or order a smaller one. fordgtlover made an iPod connector and it fit okay, though he didn't have Black Gates in it. I don't know which mini female jack he uses, but maybe someone else here will recognize it, or you can PM him._

 

i pick those metode cos' i haven't got headamp of my own right now, i thought it would more usefull IF i make the lod like that...so i can use whatever cable that i need/want, fyi i made a cable mini to RCA as well...is it too risk to do that instead of using 1 dock for each cable i made ?


----------



## ruZZ.il

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrinNutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.....
 Is it safe to assume that the the 180kΩ is supposed to be 0kΩ or it's close enough that it could just be the error on the DMM? (Accuracy according to the manual is +/- 1.0% reading + 2 digits on the 2000kΩ setting)._

 

Not really. its safe to say that a short may measure as a few singleohms, mostly the resistance of the DMM wires, etc. With error and all, it would still show up as 0KΩ on that scale. Though, I'm not sure what you're meant to be measuring cause I haven't followed your specific mod/ipod. Though like joneeboi's mentioned, if you're looking for the spot to solder the L/R wire too then I'd suspect you should be looking for the DACs L/R out too (maybe on a more sensitive scale). But for a first project, you've come a long way! and to have RTFM of you DMM.. kudos! I think I neglected to read mine till about 6 years in.. keep us updated!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_....
 well i can place the female more front than before and seal with with glue, is it a good idea ?..._

 

I think a good point has come up here regarding strain relief that shouldn't be neglected. I'd thought maybe using a little lead with a normal female at the end would be a decent idea, but that was just for stuffing sake, IMHO, the strain relief is more of an issue, and worth mentioning, again. When you get yourself a little amp for the go, you can always build yourself another more fitting DOCK.


----------



## joneeboi

Interesting. Maybe you're going to have to solder to the chip after all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Follow the copper traces out of the chip and see where they go. That'd be the easiest alternative. I suppose it isn't so bad sending the signal to those resistor spots, but it'd be better to keep the signal path simple and to put only relatively high quality parts in the signal path.


----------



## BrinNutz

ruZZ,
 Thanks!

 jon,
 There are no copper traces out of the chip on my PCB anywhere.

 See:






 I guess I could do a trial and error with the resistor pads. The soldering directly to the chip probably isn't an option. there's not a chance in hell I could do that. Simply because I cannot test pin 12 on the Wolfson which says it's "ROUT1" or "ROUT2" because I have to have the headphone jack PCB plugged in and my testers for the DMM are just a little to fat where they come together, so that's out of the question as far as testing that circuit goes.

 But I don't have anywhere to actually solder to the Wolfson anyways.


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrinNutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hear ya...But....This is my first time, with a soldering iron, I don't think I did too horribly bad!

 Thanks, hope I didn't do too bad!!_

 

Hey BrinNutz, although some of your posts *may* have tipped the scales thinking I had to post what I did, it was more of a general comment. There has been some iPod carnage around these parts
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been soldering & burning fingers almost since the 1st Moon landing & still SMD work gives me the willies (& even couple toasted AD8397s from my Mini³ build). Thought the idea of practicing on a junker PCB w/SMDs might help someone....

 Your work looks o.k. to me so far (you do have some fun left tho
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Good luck & have fun!

 joneeboi - You did have big warnings in the OP as I recall... And if one reads through things they get the point. You have a great thread going here that I'm sure a lot of people appreciate!


----------



## antonyfirst

Hi guys, I've just opened a thread but I feel I should have asked here: I'll own soon a 1st gen iMod Nano with Vcap-like dock (Sonicaps). 
 The Nano is extremely slim, which helps keeping a reasonable size for the complete rig. It should also have good battery life, and I plan to use Rockbox on it.
 The only drawback is the small capacity, only 4gb.
 I wanted to know if it's possible to solder a bigger capacity, like 16gb or 32gb (but even 8gb would be enough)? That would let us have the most awesome, and thinnest, iMod setup, and fill it with a decent number of songs. I have been told the new flash memory would need to be recognized by software, and there could be the need "for a different chip", but I don't really understand these things. 
 What do you guys think? Is it possible to improve the Nano to the Ultimate flash iMod?

 Thanks everyone.


----------



## ruZZ.il

highly unlikely. The flash is soldered to the board. I'd be damned to see that done! not impossible, but, HIGHLY unlikely. Also, you mean diyMOD, right? iMOD is by red wine. May be worth correcting. Anyway, enjoy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 We're more likely to see a diy digital out mod appear. Who knows, maybe even applicable to the newer nanos! we'll see who's sacrificial here. meanwhile, some valuable work is being done on that matter and that may be the next best in ultimate ipod mods around the corner.


----------



## joneeboi

Actually, Russ, it's possible to parallel flash memory on the first gen nanos, though it'd be a pain and a half. I believe there are two slots for flash memory, but if they're both filled up, you can parallel the flash cards on top of each other, much like stacking buffers. Again, there's an emphasis on pain and a half, but for further reading, check out 8GB iPod nano hack - Hack a Day.


----------



## antonyfirst

It's beautiful, guys. Now it's only matter to find someone willing to bear such a pain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've another question: would it be possible replace diyMod ( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) DAC chips with better wolfson ones? We might use a better chip that takes the same commands as the wolfson dacs already implemented in iPods. It might be worth trying, to reach the best sound quality possible.


----------



## joneeboi

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/diy...al-out-288449/


----------



## ruZZ.il

funky. I'd love to be proven wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 looks like nobody there is too certain either though.. anyway, if I either stumble across an ipod graveyard and have the time to make 1 out of 10 dead, or some of you guys beat me to it, rzpct. somehow, its more likely someone will beat me to it.. unless.. anyone got an ipod graveyard? I'd try anything


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, Russ, it's possible to parallel flash memory on the first gen nanos, though it'd be a pain and a half. I believe there are two slots for flash memory, but if they're both filled up, you can parallel the flash cards on top of each other, much like stacking buffers. Again, there's an emphasis on pain and a half, but for further reading, check out 8GB iPod nano hack - Hack a Day._

 

wow, can't wait to see how to do that...anyone dare to try ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 strange, that link from Hack a Day redirrect to search page only...


----------



## pcyl

Do you guy really need to put in BG 47 cap ? does it make a difference with normal 47 cap 

 correct me if i am wrong


----------



## ruZZ.il

All caps have different characteristics, BG's just seem to have those that are generally more favorable, audio wise, in the price range. There are so many options though. Generally, electrolytics aren't that great in the signal path, but their value/size/cost fit the bill better than most others. In fact, the best cap is no cap, but one is definitely needed, somewhere. Check out forum user dsavitsks Notes on coupling caps to get an idea of the differences different caps can make.. although, you may have different preferences, the differences are there.


----------



## joneeboi

If you're not going to use the BG NQ 47uF cap, you don't have to use a 47uF cap. Anything down to 1uF will work, though lower values I'm not sure of. The BG NX 47uF was chosen for its ~high quality and small size, but you don't have to use it. It's convenient because it fits inside some iPod casings, but beyond that, you have a very wide choice of compatible caps besides the BGs.


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you're not going to use the BG NQ 47uF cap, you don't have to use a 47uF cap. Anything down to 1uF will work, though lower values I'm not sure of. The BG NX 47uF was chosen for its ~high quality and small size, but you don't have to use it. It's convenient because it fits inside some iPod casings, but beyond that, you have a very wide choice of compatible caps besides the BGs._

 

Capacitance should depend on your source input impedance (most likely 10K for portable and 50K for home amp). You will have bass roll-off if you pick a cap too small.

 The RC filter formula is : f = 1/(2 * π * R * C)

 At a minimum go with 0.47uF+ for a 50K Home Amp (1uF will be better but I don't think you can actually tell the difference. For portable amps, grab something 2uF+ (4.7uF is best).

 I have a pair of BG caps in there, but after switching to quality film caps in my AlienDAC, the BG's are nowhere nearly as good as AuriCap or Mundorf MCap ZN, only take them if size is a concern.


----------



## joneeboi

That sounds interesting, Fallen. Perhaps I will give my Vitamin Qs a run with the diyMod. I'm pretty sure my BGs are already burned in, and I can't tell the difference from before. I think I've listened to it enough to get used to the sound, so I'll post my impressions of the A-B whenever I get around to it. Don't count on it being anytime soon. Thanks for mentioning that.


----------



## ferds

thanks to all.. i manage to finished mine today.. 































 will compare it to my friend ipod..


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ferds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks to all.. i manage to finished mine today.. 

snip
 will compare it to my friend ipod.._

 

I love how slick the caps fits into the 4G ipods...makes me want to get one
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do have another 5.5G i'll be modding soon(80GB), so I'll post back to let you know how that goes.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Yay, ferds followed my method! Gimme a five!


----------



## vvs_75

Just a little tip for 4th gen click ipod mode. 
 If you sending signal from DAC chip (pins 15,16) to the phone jack directly and want to save the hold function by keeping the ribbon cable you need to cut the signal that coming from main board through ribbon cable.
 When I took off c84, 86 caps I still could hear music coming from the jack but with lots off noise at normal to high listening levels. After I cut signal traces on picture below (two yellow dots near ribbon cable plug), my ipod went dead silent.


----------



## CAvanessia

good job ferds! wgr, keep us updated on the 5.5g.

 i'm planning on getting one to mod after I sell my nano


----------



## ferds

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yay, ferds followed my method! Gimme a five!_

 

yup its a clone of your imod.. hehehe

 i also bought mine refurbished from apple store in HK.

 thanks


----------



## joneeboi

*high five to KoKo*

 Great work, ferds! That's as clean a build as they'll come. Congrats on the good work.

 I recently got my hands on a black 80GB iPod video, and man, that thing was beautiful. In theory, the 5G/5.5G iPods are my favourite iPods and portable digital media players (the digital distinction made because there have been portable analog media players). I haven't owned an iPod video yet, but it seems lovely. Right now, I'm just chugging along with the 3G and 4G. The nano 1G and the 5G/5.5G video are my champions for now, but we'll see if someone can show me a better player. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, thanks for looking into where to cut the traces, vvs_75. Your way is much simpler than what I was imagining, so kudos on finding a darn-near perfect solution to that problem.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good job ferds! wgr, keep us updated on the 5.5g.

 i'm planning on getting one to mod after I sell my nano 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Will do! I already did a 5.5 (30GB), but the friend that let me borrow it wants it back!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He has no clue what he's got. Anyways, the other one is on its way.


----------



## darkfury18

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Success 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is an iMod of a nano first gen. I bypassed the whole internal wiring and maintained all original functionality. I cleaned it up a lot since the pic of the inside (forgot to take another one..). Soldering the wires internally to the dock pins was really difficult, so I don't recommend anyone do this (*naturally, some will anyway*). as I mentioned before, I used a little bit of teflon tubing to duct the wire through and hold it in place. I used hot glue to keep them in place. I used some multistrand wire I had lying around. I cut most of the strand at the end, leaving just one. I put a little solder blob where I cut just to keep it all together. The single strand is about the width of the pins, and it took me many attempts to get this right (admittedly, I believe it would have been easier with a good iron). I had some issues with the wire sticking out at first, that effected the screen. I router the wires a little better than seen here and that was solved. I still have some internal pressure somewhere thats slightly effecting my clickwheel. I will probably open it again to smooth it out even more. I got good at mating the little cables back into their sockets, but this was a bi... at first. Sound? it sounds great! better? I can't tell yet. I'm waiting for the epoxy on the dock to dry and will give it more of a listen. BG burn in starts now (and I believe in it too, my MAX showed me their way). 

 Thank you to everyone who's contributed to this thread showing me the way.
















_

 

I'm probably going to follow in your footsteps when I do my mod in a week or so. How small are those dock pins? They don't look too bad from the picture.


----------



## ruZZ.il

about as thick as a single strand in that wire I used! what REALLY helped me finally was to thread the wire through a little tube that held it in the right angle, like I mentioned above, but the single strand whose base was soldered to the other strands was slightly bent so as when the wire is pushed through the tube it would be perfectly aligned on top of the dock pin. Access is also a big problem, since my solder irons head was about as wide as the gap, so I had to come from above with the tip. in retrospect, it would have been heaps easier to do the normal mod. That being said, now that I've done it, it would be easier to do again, so I guess with some familiarity of the space you have to work with, its easier and do-able. Take a look at those pins before you decide to do it though, cause it's not the easiest thing I've done... but it works! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and it worked well for a while, till I opened my ipod once too many times and somewhere along the line messed the clickwheel ribbon up. I've got a new one waiting for me at a friends house that I need to go pick it up. I'll be able to post impressions once I get more of a solid one, and burn the BGs in. I wont be able to comment on the differences between the 2 different mods till I hear the reg. one, but I doubt the difference is audible. Theoretically, the rest of the bypasses audio circuit is open and shouldt have any effect, but with a cap there I'm not sure if theres NO effect since there's still some charge swing on the other plate due to the voltage swing on the first, which may have some effect.. I dunno.. I do it for the mod, not so much the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my ears aren't golden, so, ja know.. let us know how it goes!


----------



## BrinNutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yay, ferds followed my method! Gimme a five!_

 

I will be too!!

 I just got my BG's in today, but I'm searching for the wire I need...somewhere local at least, and I'm doing mine on a 4G Photo 30gb which had HD failure so picked up a new 60GB HD, replaced it, but lost my wall wart so I can't freaking restore it!

 So, I'll be waiting on the wires to complete the mod...

 Also, I'm going to be sending the signal from the caps back up to the headphone jack, and the dock...running two wires from caps.


----------



## wgr73

Well guys, I have successfully modded another 5.5G (80GB) ipod, and it sounds great! No need to break in the caps that are in the dock, my other diyMod did that!! 

 Here are some shots of the guts: …(the flux was a mess is almost all pictures)

 Unsoldered components…







 


 The routing of the wires...















 Now the finished product…











 Both diyMods along with my Tomahawk and HD650’s!


----------



## powertoold

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_about as thick as a single strand in that wire I used! what REALLY helped me finally was to thread the wire through a little tube that held it in the right angle, like I mentioned above, but the single strand whose base was soldered to the other strands was slightly bent so as when the wire is pushed through the tube it would be perfectly aligned on top of the dock pin. Access is also a big problem, since my solder irons head was about as wide as the gap, so I had to come from above with the tip. in retrospect, it would have been heaps easier to do the normal mod. That being said, now that I've done it, it would be easier to do again, so I guess with some familiarity of the space you have to work with, its easier and do-able. Take a look at those pins before you decide to do it though, cause it's not the easiest thing I've done... but it works! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and it worked well for a while, till I opened my ipod once too many times and somewhere along the line messed the clickwheel ribbon up. I've got a new one waiting for me at a friends house that I need to go pick it up. I'll be able to post impressions once I get more of a solid one, and burn the BGs in. I wont be able to comment on the differences between the 2 different mods till I hear the reg. one, but I doubt the difference is audible. Theoretically, the rest of the bypasses audio circuit is open and shouldt have any effect, but with a cap there I'm not sure if theres NO effect since there's still some charge swing on the other plate due to the voltage swing on the first, which may have some effect.. I dunno.. I do it for the mod, not so much the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my ears aren't golden, so, ja know.. let us know how it goes!_

 

Why didn't you go all out and solder directly to the DAC? lol Now both of those at the same time are challenging!

 ruzZ, which dock pins did you solder the wires to? You didn't solder them to the normal Line Out pins on the right side (27,28,29)?


----------



## ruZZ.il

if looking here, they were pins 14 and 17. 

 There was no real need to solder directly to the DAC, whose pins went directly to those 2 resistors I soldered to. If I'd found a more open element that the dock pins 14/17 led to, I'd probably have gone there. Since they're unused, I don't think they go anywhere..


----------



## joneeboi

Great documentation, wgr73. That's going to be a big help to those who try it for the first time. What's the outer diameter size on those wires?

 Russ, I think I may have underestimated your method before. With the nano 1G and video 5G/5.5G, there's that dangerous DC coming out of the DAC, so put that into the lineout pins 3 and 4 can damage certain types of equipment if used improperly. If we send it to those unused pins, then we can prevent the damage of those sound docks and such altogether. When you want your diyModded signal, hook up your homebrewed dock connector. Interesting... Then again, it's really fun soldering to those pins. It's a win-win-win situation all around.


----------



## wgr73

Thanks Jon. I'm not quite sure but I'm thinking its around 30-32awg. Its works great!


----------



## vvs_75

Finally finished my ultimate Sonicap dock. Now the 5gen imod can be charged while listening and music can be transferred to the player without removing the dock connector.


----------



## slwiser

What can I say Vlad...WOW!

 What do you think about it's sound?


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What can I say Vlad...WOW!

 What do you think about it's sound?_

 

You know I don't have golden years, but for sure it noticeably better than Black Gates right away.
 I am more curious how does it stand against ALO V-Cap dock, so I am thinking to send it to one of the our reviewers who have one, to see what he think about Sonicap Dock.


----------



## CAvanessia

VVS_75, always unbelievable work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I ordered some Obbligato caps last week. We'll see how they compare to my fully burned in Sonicaps (over 300 hours already).


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally finished my ultimate Sonicap dock. Now the 5gen imod can be charged while listening and music can be transferred to the player without removing the dock connector._

 

awesome rig...way to go, vvs_75...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CAvanessia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_VVS_75, always unbelievable work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I ordered some Obbligato caps last week. We'll see how they compare to my fully burned in Sonicaps (over 300 hours already)._

 

dont forget to report here, sis...


----------



## joneeboi

Fantastic build, vvs_75. You gotta slow down so the rest of us can catch up!


----------



## wgr73

Yeah, vvs_75 that is amazing! Where do you get all of the enclosures from? That build quality is great! Very professional.


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, vvs_75 that is amazing! Where do you get all of the enclosures from? That build quality is great! Very professional._

 


 Thanks!
 It a hammond 1455C... enclosure. You can get it from Mouser or DigiKey. The same case as mini^3 .


----------



## wgr73

Thanks


----------



## Gnoshroom

Vlad, what are specs on that dock? What is the uF of both the main and bypass caps if you don't mind disclosing that information? Also, did you machine the Hammond case ends for the USB and Phone jack?

 Thanks


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gnoshroom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Vlad, what are specs on that dock? What is the uF of both the main and bypass caps if you don't mind disclosing that information? Also, did you machine the Hammond case ends for the USB and Phone jack?

 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The big cap - 4.7mF Sonicap Gen I and small - 0.047mF Gen II 

Sonicap Capacitors

 The end plates were machined but not by professional. I got them long time ago thinking to use them with my mini^3 but I preferred aluminum stock ends in the end. They made from very hard SS and I decided to use them only because I screwed up original plates that came with the enclosure.


----------



## gueri_fr

Hello!
 This is my first post in this great discussion. Congralutations for all your imod work!
 I recently purchase a new 5.5G 30gb ipod and I would like to imod it. If i understand well the 5G imod, the headphone jack is disabled. Why ? I would like to keep the headphone jack functional like the RWA mod. Is it possible ???
 Do you think the caps could fit into the ipod if the hard drive is remplaced by a compact flash using tarkan's adapter ?

 PS: I hope my english is not too bad  I'm french!


----------



## joneeboi

Welcome, gueri_fr. Sorry about your wallet.

 If you perform the diyMod on your iPod 5G, your headphone jack will still be functional. The DAC has 2 or 3 outputs, so the headphone jack is left completely intact. Regarding tarkan's adapter, I'm not sure if it will fit or not since no one has tested it yet. You'd have to route wires from the front to the back to the front, which might affect the ultimate fit of your iPod. To reduce the effect on the fit, you can solder from the DAC to the caps on the hard drive side, and then straight to the dock's pins. It would be a pain, but it would save you overall trouble with the enclosure.

 Let's see if I can do this: Vous ecrivez très bien en anglais, mieux même que des gens venant de l'Amérique du Nord.


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome, gueri_fr. Sorry about your wallet.

 If you perform the diyMod on your iPod 5G, your headphone jack will still be functional. The DAC has 2 or 3 outputs, so the headphone jack is left completely intact. Regarding tarkan's adapter, I'm not sure if it will fit or not since no one has tested it yet. You'd have to route wires from the front to the back to the front, which might affect the ultimate fit of your iPod. To reduce the effect on the fit, you can solder from the DAC to the caps on the hard drive side, and then straight to the dock's pins. It would be a pain, but it would save you overall trouble with the enclosure.

 Let's see if I can do this: Vous ecrivez très bien en anglais, mieux même que des gens venant de l'Amérique du Nord._

 

 i was thinking to use flat ribbion wilre to connect it over to the HD side but have not got time to source for the correct length Maybe after chinese new year if some one in Singapore need my help on mod 

 Peter 
 Singapore


----------



## gueri_fr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome, gueri_fr. Sorry about your wallet.
 ...
 Let's see if I can do this: Vous ecrivez très bien en anglais, mieux même que des gens venant de l'Amérique du Nord._

 

Hey! Very good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still waiting to receive my ipod. Perhaps, I'll try the adventure with a compact flash adapter and a 32Gb Transcend CF. But it depends on the price off course!
 I'm happy to see the headphone jack could be left intact. I was confused because aaronylee's guide says in page one : "This mod will also not allow you to use your headphones through the headphone jack."

 eric


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gueri_fr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey! Very good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still waiting to receive my ipod. Perhaps, I'll try the adventure with a compact flash adapter and a 32Gb Transcend CF. But it depends on the price off course!
 I'm happy to see the headphone jack could be left intact. I was confused because aaronylee's guide says in page one : "This mod will also not allow you to use your headphones through the headphone jack."

 eric_

 

i confirm you still get audio out from the ipod female jack


----------



## joneeboi

I'm also waiting on some parts to assemble a CF memory diyMod 4G. Whenever that does happen, I will report my findings. Also, when I get another iPod to diyMod, I'm going to do a pictorial to post on Instructables - The World's Biggest DIY & How To Show & Tell to help the newbies even more. Even with all the resources we have now, I think it's still a pretty big stretch for most. Lastly, with the vast amount of free time I have, I have updated OP yet again.


----------



## ferds

Thanks for the great work joneeboi!! also thanks for including some pics of my diyMod in the OP


----------



## gueri_fr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i confirm you still get audio out from the ipod female jack_

 

Thanks!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* 
_You'd have to route wires from the front to the back to the front, which might affect the ultimate fit of your iPod._

 

You're right. It could be very hard to do.

 eric


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That sounds interesting, Fallen. Perhaps I will give my Vitamin Qs a run with the diyMod. I'm pretty sure my BGs are already burned in, and I can't tell the difference from before. <snip>_

 

BTW, my opinion was similar to this one & sort of mysterious given the reviews for the similar 4G iMods (yeah I used 22uf & others 47uf but should be no biggie). Does seem like larger fancy-pants caps may be where the fun is (if you are going as far as the DIYmod anyway).

 I've some Sonicaps on the way to try w/my DIYmod someday (part of an order of caps for my Magnavox tube amp restore). Though the DC lineout bit still has me wary. I may consider subbing some sort of direct lineout connector on the top of my 3G (like an extra 1/8" stereo jack) for the cap/resistor packages there now & using that (disabling the dock connector lineout).


----------



## joneeboi

Perhaps we can set up some kind of database that catalogs the different sounds of the different boutique caps everyone's trying out. Once I get my co-op job, I may have to consider some sort of docking station that easily swaps out caps so I can find the best fit. V-Caps are tempting, starting at $46/cap, but I'll probably try out the cheaper options first. What do we have so far? Auricaps, Black Gates, Sonicaps, V-Caps, Obbligattos. I have some Solens and Vitamin Qs that I have to try, so we have quite a few flavours so far. Commence in-depth sound descriptions! We're treading on very thin ice at this point, so we ought to exercise utmost discretion in what we say. 

 That said, I'll start with my sound description. I'm pairing my 22uF BGed diyMod 4G with my PIMETA (AD8610/AD8620, 2N5087/2N5088 Sijosae discrete L/R buffers and BUF634 in GND, generic 1.0uF C4 box caps), and I'm loving the bass I'm getting. I'm sure most of it is coming from the PIMETA since I used to listen with the Millett MAX, and the bass is much more tangible crossing over to the PIMETA. There is also a bass rolloff near the bottom frequencies, but I think that's coming from the SR60s, as well. BGs are well burnt in, and I didn't notice the earthquake like others have. Then again, that's probably since I've been tweaking my system like mad lately. I haven't been impressed so far with the BGs, as it didn't do so great in the MAX. Granted, I didn't get the NX like tomb and pabbi and others did, but they're still BGs, and they didn't knock my socks off. The downside of the internal BG method is that I can't do a before/after comparison unless I go with ruZZ.il's method, which I didn't this go around. I really don't know what I'm hearing, except that I really enjoy my diyMod+PIMETA+SR60s setup. The difference went unnoticed with me, which is really the reason for which everyone is reading this comparison. I can't offer that kind of insight, so I can only say that I'm so addicted to the setup that I actually decided to turn it from my at-home-next-to-my-laptop rig to my at-school-next-to-my-laptop rig. I'm working on the external diyMod DAC/amp which I'm tentatively calling the Dogger DAC, and I've received permission from Tangent to implement the PIMETA design so long as I don't call it a PIMETA. I'm in love with the AD8610/AD8620 combo since I got the AD8620 from souperman. I tried the AD8610 with the OPA2107, JRC4556, OPA2134, none of which I enjoyed as much as the AD8620. I lost out on a chance to pick up some OPA627s, but it seems those don't measure as well as the AD8610/AD8620. Since BUF634s are out, I'll probably implement the same Sijosae discrete buffer design I'm currently using which will save money and time, but I can't imagine finishing before BUF634s come into production. Not to mention there's that bit about National's new buffer and other DIP8 drop-in buffer packages. This extended discourse is just a long-winded way of saying I'm in love with my diyMod+PIMETA+SR60 setup, and I'll be hard-pressed to release the ninja-tight, kung fu grip I have on said setup.


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## ruZZ.il

It'll be hard having different opinions by different people, but may prove as a 'general direction' kind of guide. talking about differences, I found the 8610/20 in my pimeta very detailed, just a little cold for me. I've got double stacked 634s L/R and a single on the G, so maybe the buffs kill some bass.. they're supposedly not that great compared to the discrete. I took 2 0.22 and implemented a variable bass boost in the op-amps feedback just like in the M^3 that adds some THUMP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 much happier with my PIMETA since.. but to be honest, I find the mini^3 aqs satisfying and half the size.. <shrugs> 
 Your dacamp sounds like it'll be killer, the PIMETA is a great platform since its really so flexible (3 channel, class a optional, buffer optional, op-amp rolling friendly, good stuff). you found your dac chip yet? I need to check into that thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm fidgeting with the alien lately.. pity it has no I2S in. 
 Any chance it'll be mosltly SMD, or is that being selfish?


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## joneeboi

I'm going to try to keep it all SMD, and if I find room leftover for through-hole parts, I can accomodate that too. I'll make some tweaks for personal use, though I imagine people may want in on it after I flesh it out a bit more. I've never done this kind of thing before, so everything really is still up in the air. I made some progress last night, but it'll be at least a couple months before I can really hammer anything out. My respect for circuit designers is growing every day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm going with the Wolfson WM8740, the mighty chip in the (older) Opus DACs, though I don't think they're in season at Mouser. My hopes are that they will be by the time I get into prototyping, but that's still a fairy tale at this time.

 That's a really interesting idea with the bass boost on the PIMETA. I've read about it, but I don't think my PIMETA necessarily needs it, what with my listening tastes. I thought about putting in the PPAS since PPA > PIMETA though by how much, I'm not sure, and the PPAS is already so crazy tiny. It has the additional advantage of optional bass boost, as well. I'm going to go work out, and then we'll see what kind of work I can put into the DAC/amp. I can assure you, however, that it's no Pico/Predator. Off to the gym!


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## iQEM

yay, ipod touch had out with 32gb capacity now...i've heard that ipod touch & iphone are using wolfson dac as well, is it worth to mod em ?


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## wgr73

They may be kind of tough to get open? I know that the iphone uses a different pinout in the dock too. If you decide to do it, definitely post your results/pics!


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## iQEM

nope, just asking...they both too expensive for me to buy...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe someone here that have try to dissamble em ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 here's the url to dissamble iTouch...
  Code:


```
[left]http://www.cnet.com.au/mp3players/mp3players/0,239036128,339284245-6s,00.htm[/left]
```






 and this one board of iPhone...


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## Ramblingman

Hey guys ill be modding my 5.5G ipod pretty soon, just want to make sure i kind of know what im doing...

 I just have a few questions about caps... ive been searching but havent been able to get my head around it..

 What im confused about is all the different values that people are using? 

 In the first post it seems that if you are going to go with the BG caps the values to look for are 22 or 47uF at 6.3VDC but then when some people build their docks they use like 4.7 or 2.2uF with 100 or 250VDC ratings. 

 Im just wondering how all these different ratings can work in the same application? 

 Do caps have like a broad range of successful operation or are they using these big caps and bypassing them somewhere where im not seeing?

 And what about the voltage, is that their MAX handling voltage but they will work fine with the ipods very low voltage?


 Anyway i've tried to get my head around it myself through searching but havent been able to do it yet 

 If anyone can please help this noob get an understanding for caps that would be much appreciated! 

 Im really looking forward to this mod!


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## joneeboi

Caps can vary in capacitance in this application, though I'm not sure how low the values can go. The voltage rating for the capacitors means how big a voltage they can take before exploding. The voltage coming out of the DAC measures from 1.5VDC to the 2.5VDC. I've measured 1.5VDC but I've seen some datasheets say 2VDC. Either way, I haven't seen many caps below 6.3V, so almost any cap will work. The BGs we've used measure from 22uF up to 100uF, but the datasheet says 1uF can be used. They get smaller, but depending on the amp you're using, you may not want to use them. Basically, the 100VDC and 250VDC ratings are supreme overkill, but that theoretically can add the sound. *shrug* Moral, almost any capacitance and voltage can be used, so long as the voltage is above 2.5VDC and capacitance, *shrug*


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## no_eye_dear

The thing to remember when picking your cap is that it forms a high-pass filter with the resistor to ground. Lookup RC circuit here:
High-pass filter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 If you are using the Wolfson schematic then you could get away with 1uf unless you are using it through a quallity set of speakers (via an amp of course). If the corner frequency of the filter is too high then you may start to get phase distortion on sub-base frequencies.

 Thanks to everyone here on the forum I've completed 2 4G's using solid silver teflon direct to the docking station and then converted the dock with nice caps and RCA's on the back. I did two in case 1 accidentally damaged something but they are both perfect
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I installed Rockbox on them both as well so I can listen to my FLAC files.

 This is a serious bit of kit that fits in neatly with my home brew dual mono T-amp

 In fact... now I have one for sale if anyone is interested
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 U da man joneeboi


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## no_eye_dear

The thing to remember when picking your cap is that it forms a high-pass filter with the resistor to ground. Lookup RC circuit here:
High-pass filter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 If you are using the Wolfson schematic then you could get away with 1uf unless you are using it through a quallity set of speakers (via an amp of course). If the corner frequency of the filter is too high then you may start to get phase distortion on sub-base frequencies.

 Thanks to everyone here on the forum I've completed 2 4G's using solid silver teflon direct to the docking station and then converted the dock with nice caps and RCA's on the back. I did two in case 1 accidentally damaged something but they are both perfect
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I installed Rockbox on them both as well so I can listen to my FLAC files.

 This is a serious bit of kit that fits in neatly with my home brew dual mono T-amp

 In fact... now I have one for sale if anyone is interested
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 U da man joneeboi


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## Ramblingman

Awesome! Thanks for that post joneeboi, it has helped me SOOOOOOOOOOOO much! 

 Another thing i think i read but cant seem to find anywhere, i could just be tripping.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 was that the ideal uF value would be 1uF for every 100ohm input impedance on the connecting amp? 

 Anyway thanks again! Ill post pics of my yMod as soon as i get it done.. which will probably be early next week


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## ruZZ.il

capacitance using the equation: 1/(2*pi*R*C) to caculate the low freqquency cutoff. The cap works as a high pass filter (more on that here) Basically, its 2 plates that are very close to each other, and when a charge accumulates on one plate, it repels the charge on the other (like how magnets push each other away when orientated right, kinda). but once there's no more charge to push away, it stops.. so basically, it wont respond to a constant charge on one plate after a very short time, but will respond to a changing one. The main purpose that we use them for is to block whats called "Direct Current", which is basically the constant flow of electrons in one direction that would ruin things like headphones. this DC is a result of constand voltages that signals oscillate around in the reproduction of the analog signal from the digital data, bla bla bla..

 Back to the equation
 R- Resistance of the load. In our case, an amplifier, whos load on a circuit is equal to a resistive load of anywhere between around 10,000 and 100,000 Ohms.
 C- The capacitance of the capacitor. A value that indicates how much charge can accumulate one one plate before it stops accumulating more.
 So, for example, a 50kOhm load with a capacitor of 1uF would give us a cut-off frequency (the frequency where the signal is attenuated by 3db (basically means only half the power of the signal goes through, as the frequency gets lower, less and less of it gets through. 0hz (dc) wont go through at all) of:
 Fc=1/(2*pi*R*C)=1/(2*pi*50000*0.000001)=~3.2Hz. 
 (Hz- oscillations per second)
 so with a common amp, a 1uF cap would give a cutoff frequency of 3.2Hz which is well below what we can hear anyway. we chose such low values cause the cap will continue to effect frequencies above that, to a lesser degree as they're higher... and for flexability. 
 a 47uF cap would give a cutoff frequency of about 0.5Hz for the same load.. overkill, yes, but we use them cause its effective and cheap cause of the type of cap it is. some of the lowe values, like 1uf, can get really expensive.
 Bottom line:
 I broad range of caps is good for us, anything above 1uF will have favorable functionality for a broad range of amps.. and all caps behave a little differently, and sound a little different, and here the fun starts.. pick your cap and see how it works, enjoy the music! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S Picking the 'right' cap isn't always easy, either go with the flow or browse the forums.. too much to talk about here. Forum user dsavitsk shared his valuable experience here which is worth a go over, imho.

 hope this helps more than it confuses....


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## Ramblingman

Thanks for the replies guys! Ive now got heaps of reading to do, will let you know how i go for sure, i think im going to get hooked on modding things after this....


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## joneeboi

Good to know we could help, Ramblingman. Good luck on your mod.

 Thanks, no_eye_dear and ruZZ.il, for adding your insights. I'm still a little confused about how the charging plates block the DC, but I think I can figure it out from what's been said, two or three of my textbooks, and the mountain of information stored in my professors' heads. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Wait, I think I got it.

 i(t) = C*dv/dt, so if dv/dt=0, i(t)=0. Boy, that wasn't so hard. If an AC signal through a capacitor stays constant long enough, it becomes fully charged and nothing passes through it. Man, I just did a lab on this, too. Way to apply your knowledge, joneeboi. Huzzah!

 It's good to hear you got your 4Gs completed, no_eye_dear. Which type of 4Gs were they? And what kind of dock did you convert? I need a docking station at home for my diyMods too, and I was thinking that'd be an easy way to swap caps in and out of it. Must go shopping today...


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## ruZZ.il

basically, yes. But nothing ever passes though it! (maybe tunneling electrons, but statistically close to none). It's 'almost' as if something passes though it. Think of it like a water pipe, in the middle of the water pipe is this stretched rubber sheet, like a balloon, the blocks the water flow. Obviously, the water wont pass through it, but if the water just oscillates, the balloon will stretch to accommodate or if the water tries to go in one direction, it'll go until balloon stretches and the elastic force is equal to the force pushing the water. The energy stored in the stretched balloon is kind of like the energy stored in the electric field created between the charges. So the i(t) in that equation is the 'current'(pseudo) in the circuit, but not actually the current 'through' the capacitor. I've seen this graphical representation somewhere.. maybe I'll find it later.
 edit: more about it here.


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## wgr73

ruZZ, thats a very good illustration! Thanks for that!! Hey guys, I was also wondering what you mean when you say "DC" offset? I've seen it used around the forum, but I'm almost positive people are using it in the wrong way. Explain this please...


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## joneeboi

Thanks for that, Russ. You've shone the light on my eyes.

 wgr73:

 One context in which we speak of DC offset is in the troubleshooting stage of amplifiers. To see how much DC is produced and is being sent to the headphones, we measure the voltage between input ground and the left and right outputs. If things are working within reason, you can get between 0mV and 20mV. Anything beyond that isn't healthy for the headphones and indicates a big problem. For instance, I got measurements of ~2.4mVDC and ~7.1mVDC on the L and R channels (can't remember which) using the OPA2134PA opamp in my PIMETA's OPALR socket, but when I plop in the AD8620, I get 0.01mVDC or 0.00mVDC. We usually don't say mVDC, but I just wanted to be clear; mV will suffice since we're already talking about DC offset. I'm not sure how else we speak of DC offset, but that's one example that's oft mentioned around these here parts.


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## wgr73

Thats what I needed to know. So in other threads people are *not *using the term DC offset correctly. I was confused reading them, because I wasn't sure if I was remembering correctly...but you've confirmed that for me, thanks!


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## wgr73

What could cause DC offset: 1. In our case (DIYmod) 2. In general?


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## ruZZ.il

we're not filtering the dc offset in our case, we're filtring out the DC that the signal is created around. Generally, a signal oscillates the ground, but you'd need a + and a - power supply for that. What these DACs do is get, say, 5Vdc and 2.5Vdc, and the signal oscillates around the 2.5Vdc so let say you're creating a 1v sin wave at 50Hz, it would be 2.5+1*sin(50*2*pi*t). we just want the sin part, so the cap filters out the 2.5Vdc...

 In general, DC offset could be cause by noisy feedback, bias currents, umm.. I don't know too many causes actually.. I'm sure Ti and Warren know all about it


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## joneeboi

In general, DACs produce a bit of DC, so it's not just a diyMod thing, but DACs in every application. Opus, Alien, they both use DC blocking caps at the output.

 In amplifiers, DC usually comes from the source, and its magnitude is amplified by whatever's in the amp. Unless you use a DC servo, opamps, or coupling caps, you're going to get DC at the output. For instance, the Mini^3 doesn't have any caps in the signal path, so putting in any DC will amplifiy it by whatever gain in which it's configured. Some amps have DC blocking caps at the input right before the opamp, like the CMoy. Other amps have them right in the output signal path, like the Millett Hybrid (I think these are for DC blocking; for what other reason are they there?). Still others use a DC servo, like the M^3 (I think). The short answer is comes back to the first answer: DC comes from the source signal. It's up to both the source's and amp's designers/builders where and how they want to block them, whether at the source's output, amp's input, or amp's output, and whether they want to block it using a DC servo, implementing opamps (I'm not sure how it works, but I get this from hearsay), and our favourite method, using DC blocking caps.

 The reason some stray from coupling caps is because they add non-linearities and colouration to the sound. They are the simplest solution to DC blocking, but that comes at a price. Using opamps for DC zeroing, say, in a balanced setup would require 6 opamps and other bits, taking up more space and costing you the price of 6 opamps and then some. I don't know how the DC servo bit works either, so you have to look that up if you really care. You'll eventually run into it in this DIY gig, somehow I've managed to avoid them. Google for the win.

 Hope that helps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Someone please correct me where I'm off.

 edit: Right, they also come when you don't build your amp properly, but that I'm unsure of as well. Consult your local DIY guru today!


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## wgr73

Thanks guys, that makes sense!


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## no_eye_dear

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's good to hear you got your 4Gs completed, no_eye_dear. Which type of 4Gs were they? And what kind of dock did you convert? I need a docking station at home for my diyMods too, and I was thinking that'd be an easy way to swap caps in and out of it. Must go shopping today..._

 

Hi Joneeboi, a grey and a photo 40GB, I opted for the direct route to (1) keep thing simple inside the pod and (2) be able to interchange caps on the outside..... or even no caps
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.... been doing some experimenting.
 Transformers are another good option.....
 I just got one of those Sync Chargers and put some small film caps in there for now but I have a collection of caps that I can change out in my amp (lots of room) so I may just leave it straight through.
 I did attach a small steel plate the base of the sync charger though...... the interconnects kept pulling it over
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ultimately the dock will be in the top of the amp anyway.....


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## darkfury18

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_about as thick as a single strand in that wire I used! what REALLY helped me finally was to thread the wire through a little tube that held it in the right angle, like I mentioned above, but the single strand whose base was soldered to the other strands was slightly bent so as when the wire is pushed through the tube it would be perfectly aligned on top of the dock pin. Access is also a big problem, since my solder irons head was about as wide as the gap, so I had to come from above with the tip. in retrospect, it would have been heaps easier to do the normal mod. That being said, now that I've done it, it would be easier to do again, so I guess with some familiarity of the space you have to work with, its easier and do-able. Take a look at those pins before you decide to do it though, cause it's not the easiest thing I've done... but it works! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and it worked well for a while, till I opened my ipod once too many times and somewhere along the line messed the clickwheel ribbon up. I've got a new one waiting for me at a friends house that I need to go pick it up. I'll be able to post impressions once I get more of a solid one, and burn the BGs in. I wont be able to comment on the differences between the 2 different mods till I hear the reg. one, but I doubt the difference is audible. Theoretically, the rest of the bypasses audio circuit is open and shouldt have any effect, but with a cap there I'm not sure if theres NO effect since there's still some charge swing on the other plate due to the voltage swing on the first, which may have some effect.. I dunno.. I do it for the mod, not so much the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my ears aren't golden, so, ja know.. let us know how it goes!_

 

Took 5 hrs to do the mod and make the LOD this evening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I basically did the same thing that you did except I used pin 17 and 24 since they were a little more accessible than pin 14. Used 26 awg Jupiter cryo wires internally and for the LOD. I also added a USB port on the LOD. 

 Initial impression... sounds a little boring (not sure how else to describe it) compared to the HP out?


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## ruZZ.il

BGs? give them time.

 I got my clickwheel in. BUUUT. after closer inspection, I realized that I'd evidently heated up the tiny plug that the clickwheel ribbon slid into. This was a result of a tiny splatter of solder that got onto the pins, and I had to absorb it into some braiding to get it off. ugh. the plastic that holds the pins in place kind of melted down, which is what was preventing proper pin contact. I tried to peel it off a bit, or lift it, but it had stuck to the pins.. so, thats screwed. On the brighter side, it gives me incentive to try bypass the plug, new proj. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I'll have some 36awg wire in teflon here soon that I'll solder to the plugs pins and 7 out of 8 wires go to the chip on the clickwheel, one goes to a little resistor. Should be a challenge, and satisfying if I pull it off. Alternatively, I'll be reviving an old mini with a flash card and a new battery soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 congrats on the mod! update us with burn-in impressions. BGs are a b*tch and a half to come around.


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## joneeboi

Seems my package hasn't reached you yet, eh, Russ? Give us an in-depth analysis of the airwiring of your click wheel. You always seem to choose the insane way of doing things, don't you?  I'll add the warning.

 And congratulations, darkfury18! Kudos on picking up on the pin 24 bit. I forgot that FireWire support was dropped in the nano. In that case, there are quite a few more unused pins that I hadn't considered, perfect for my iPod digital out DAC/amp.

 And thanks for the extra info, no_eye_dear. Maybe I'll pick up one of those docks for my 3G which doesn't have USB charging. =T


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## darkfury18

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems my package hasn't reached you yet, eh, Russ? Give us an in-depth analysis of the airwiring of your click wheel. You always seem to choose the insane way of doing things, don't you?  I'll add the warning.

 And congratulations, darkfury18! Kudos on picking up on the pin 24 bit. I forgot that FireWire support was dropped in the nano. In that case, there are quite a few more unused pins that I hadn't considered, perfect for my iPod digital out DAC/amp.

 And thanks for the extra info, no_eye_dear. Maybe I'll pick up one of those docks for my 3G which doesn't have USB charging. =T_

 

Yup, 47uf Black Gates. I guess I just need to let everything burn in. The BGs, my mini3, and my headphones also 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 It's pin 7 or 24, depending on which pinout diagram you're looking at; it's one that's unused in all ipods. You gave me too much credit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but now i know there are more pins that I can use.

 EDIT: I've been reading about the 1G nano and it seems that it sounds very very neutral from the line out, I guess that's what I'm hearing....


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## joneeboi

Don't worry so much about what everyone else is hearing. If it's neutral to you, then it's neutral. We've already had a few members who were not impressed by the diyMod's sound and whose impressions didn't match those of the iMod listeners. When you're listening to it, don't worry so much about trying to pick up on the nuances. If they're there, they'll present themselves. Don't think about it too much, just listen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Maybe I did give you too much credit on the unused pin part (don't worry, you can keep it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Nevertheless, we've stumbled upon a serendipitous observation: there are now tons more unused pins in the nano of which we had no idea. That allows direct-to-dock solderers more space with which to work, so mishaps like ruZZ.il's click wheel ribbon cable slot melting accident can hypothetically be reduced in occurrence and likelihood. To push the matter even further, *I'm requesting that diyModders and/or the average iPod-owning DIYer can confirm the usability of pins 8, 9 and 10 on their respective iPod models*. I know what the pinouts.ru site says, that 9 and 10 are only used on the 4G photo and that 8 is the video pin for video-capable and photo iPods, but I just wanted to double check. They really ought to make a list for each iPod line up to notify users of such tidbits as the FireWirelessness of the nanoes. Perhaps we can even whip up our own list. Thanks, everyone.


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## tomo3014

hey question goes out to all the 1st gen. nano diymodders...
 do you guys put your music as
 ALAC? because it can only put in 100 songs or so.


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## wgr73

I use LAME vbr-v0....


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## darkfury18

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use LAME vbr-v0...._

 

x2


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## tomo3014

hmm. thanx.


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## joneeboi

I don't have a nano, but I LAME MP3 320kbps CBR.

 I should also mention that I removed the DZP transistor that's been itching on our minds and it doesn't affect the presence of sound on the line out. I wonder what it does do...All the other pins go to ground, but I don't know what that really means.


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## ruZZ.il

Jon, you're a KING! (you know what that means?) Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, regarding the first gen mini mod, I've got some findings regarding the mod position. The 2 points stated above are actually the post-amplified points, hence their effect from the volume control, and they sounds just as bad as the internal amplifier, too. 
 On the other side there are 2 little caps, C54, C53 that I found trying to scope out traces from the dock. By removing those caps and either jumpering them to maintain the usual dock out pins (there is still 100ohm in series between those caps and the output, so either find them and jumper too, or just leave as is) or by removing those caps and taking their higher contacts through leads to new dock pins (would need to file away a little of the board on some edge to get the wires around flush with the edge) is the way to go. The difference between these 2 spots and the ones originally stated in the OP is immediately evident. I'll have some pics when I get a chance, probably after exams ;( meanwhile, I'll be trying to get ahold of mini of my own or 2.. maybe I'll buy 3 or 4 broken ones off ebay and make 2 or 3 working ones.. with some 16gb compact flash cards in em 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm sure there would be interest in that!
 16/32gb diyModed minis, anyone?


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## tomo3014

ruzz.il> i would love those 16gb mod minis. count me in!!


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## joneeboi

Thanks for that, Russ. Scratch my back, scratch yours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad you could find some contacts aside from the ones I found because for the life of me, I couldn't find the contacts from the line level outputs. You've inspired me to look into it further, but again, after exams. Enjoy the package.


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## CAvanessia

Please do keep us updated Russ! I have a spare mini here waiting to be modded


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## joneeboi

Wow, it took you 10 hours to realize that spelling mistake, CAvanessia? 

 3 midterms to go...


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## tomo3014

>>joneeboi
 i saw that too. but didn't want to hurt his feelings. lol


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## joneeboi

Oh right, CAvanessia's name is Christine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good reading material that I foolishly haven't mentioned yet.
Input Capacitors for Headphone Amps

 ruZZ.il:

 I wonder about your sound impression of the cap positions I mentioned before, since the signals are identical between C53/C54 (yours) and C86/C87 (mine), at least according to the datasheet. The only difference is the 100ohms thing and the fact that there's a volume control on C86/C87. Turn up the volume and you should technically have the same signal.


----------



## ruZZ.il

well, I initially did the original mod. using my cutom dock, it sounded.. muffled, plain and boring.. changing to a normal dock it had the clarity and detail that a Line out shout, indicating imediately that the original points most probably are'nt line level and the aweful sound is probably due to some internal amplification (which is probably what the volume control is there for). I immediately tried to scope out the surrounding cap like components to no avail, so I looked for pairs of caps on the board.. finding "C53" and "C54" rung a bell (arent they the same numbers as another mod?). scoped them out and they had a signal.. measure the resistance to a normal dock out pin and got 100Ohm, so they're line level. removed the caps, took the signal from the top contact (also, I think the inner one closer to the center of the board is left.. by measuring the path resistance to the norml dock pin). hooked it all up and was immediately met by the clear and detailed again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 knowing that I at-least tapped the right signal, removed tiny cheap caps from the line, and have some BGs in there. Listened happily for a while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will see how it goes.. 
 Mind pointing me to the D.S?


----------



## no_eye_dear

Just some pics of the grey...
 At the dock pins - underneath the board SMD's removed:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...y/DSC01221.jpg
 At the dock pins - underneath the board wired in:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...y/DSC01227.jpg
 Top shot, neatly routed:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...y/DSC01228.jpg
 At the DAC - nice and tidy:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...y/DSC01231.jpg


----------



## CAvanessia

haha! I was on my iPod touch. The spell check automatically changed "modded" to "nodded"

 My obbligatos are burning in nicely. Will post impressions in a few days.


----------



## joneeboi

Good to hear it, Russ. I found them, but I didn't get the 100 ohm resistance you found. From line out to striped end of the capacitors, I found continuity. That makes it one of the easier soldering jobs, considering the dock inductors are sitting right next to those caps. Remove caps C53/C54, remove inductors L7/L8, then remove caps C69/C70. Good stuff.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear it, Russ. I found them, but I didn't get the 100 ohm resistance you found. From line out to striped end of the capacitors, I found continuity. That makes it one of the easier soldering jobs, considering the dock inductors are sitting right next to those caps. Remove *caps C53/C54, remove inductors L7/L8, then remove caps C69/C70*. Good stuff._

 


 Are those caps to be removed in the 5.5diymod as well?


----------



## joneeboi

The equivalent of the C69/C70 on the 5G is the complementary pair C84/C85. You want to remove those too.


----------



## no_eye_dear

.....and the LOD





http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...y/DSC01233.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...y/DSC01232.jpg
 I don't use the USB or charger when playing as I think the power is quite dirty, it runs much quieter off the battery.
 I did another with Blackgates and bypass silver mica's.... not sure which is best at the moment. The films have better control of the bass but the midrange/highs are a little muddy.... The BG's are bright but that's as expected... need burn-in.
 TTFN


----------



## joneeboi

no_eye_dear, you have some really good photography! I loved that photo of the dock inductors so much I put it on the OP. It demands my eyes' attention. What caps are those in this dock? Or is this the dock with the steel base that you removed for photos? Simply stunning. Keep up the good work!


----------



## jamess71

no_eye_dear, Nice work. what theme is that you are using with rockbox? 

 James


----------



## gueri_fr

no_eye_dear, great work!

 From my part (I don't really know if it's the good terms in english!), I received my new ipod video 30gb and I installed Rockbox 
 I'm probably going to buy a defected ipod motherboard to see if I am capable to do imod myself with success. Wait and see...

 eric


----------



## no_eye_dear

Hi Chaps,
 joneeboi... an honour sir.... I'm on the OP
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 This is the other dock that I haven't put a plate on, those films are starting to open up, been burning for several days now. The films are specials from our 'Aladin's cave' @ work, so is the silver wire, we have some nice kit! Things you can't buy off the shelf
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The theme is Marquee James, you can customise it as you please, I love Rockbox if only because I can play FLAC
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 gueri_fr... your English is absolutely fine


----------



## joneeboi

I gotta get me one of those workplaces. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What kind of caps are you using, no_eye_dear? I can't identify them from the photo.

 Something I often wonder is how many people that are following the thread have done the diyMod but haven't chimed in yet. We've got 44k+ views, and I'm guessing most of those folks are of the DIY-ing type capable of doing the mod themselves. If you have, please let us know you've diyModded your iPod so we can share in your joy! Share the good news, share pictures, share struggles and triumphs, share it all.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something I often wonder is how many people that are following the thread have done the diyMod but haven't chimed in yet._

 

I've thought about that too....you know people are doing it. Probably ones who belong to different forums as well. It would be nice to know whos all modding


----------



## darkswordsman17

I notice there's stuff for the first gen Mini, but not the second gen? I've got a second gen that I'll be opening up to replace the battery and convert it to a 16GB flash player, and wondered if I might give this a try while I'm at it.


----------



## BrinNutz

Weird...


----------



## joneeboi

We haven't had anyone try and/or report on the mini 2G, so there isn't much information on it here. There seems to be even less on the internet. If you could be so kind as to take very explicit photos inside your mini 2G, we'd all appreciate it.

 While searching for a close up mini 2G logic board photo, I stumbled on these websites for iPod parts.

Fix My iPod :: iPod - Select iPod Model
iDemiGods.com - Your one stop shop for ipod parts, repair and more!!!

 I have a feeling there are a million of this kind of site. iDemiGods seems pretty good, but the other seems somewhat expensive.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrinNutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've noticed a lot of people posting but not many people are on the list..hrm..._

 

Which list are you referring to, BrinNutz?

 Here are the images of the mini 1G. It's kind of a struggle figuring out which one is left and which is right, but I can find out later. Of the top row of inductors within the silkscreen, the second from the left is the right channel, and the third from the left is the left channel.


----------



## ruZZ.il

joneeboi, are you sure that isn't a second gen above? the caps layout looks like those I saw in a second gen take apart I've seen.
 Here is half of my mod on a first gen mini:





 The other end of the leads go to the same pins 14 and 17 so I can at least use the dock cable I made for my nano 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 needless to say, I've done much neater work on them pins this time, but the space to work with is another story too. I'll snap some shots next time I crack 'er open. meanwhile, sounding good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Next, need to get myself some batteries and compact flash cards..

 Note: 

 It looks like the nice little blackgates would fit perfectly snug just next to the clickwheel lock switch. My next mini mod will be putting them there, re-routing the wire back to the normal line out dock pins..


----------



## iQEM

my lod had dissapointed me, well...had to start all over again...now i'm gonna try ruZZ.il way...please guide me...


----------



## ruZZ.il

To be honest, the original method of removing the caps and other in-line components and bypassing the signal as instructed in the original post is a MUCH easier mod than the one I briefly pulled off on the nano, and even successfully on the mini. Enough so that in my original post I decided to suggest against it so that only those daring enough to venture out alone would do it, without any guarantee. Needless to say, some very delicate soldering has to be done to those tiny pins, and the nano doesnt give you much space to do it in. Therefor, I stick to my original suggestion and leave it up to the skillful and daring, and believe that I've already posted enough information for anyone who fits the profile to go through and see both how to do it, and generally what to avoid doing in that area. I hope you don't mind me not encouraging this method, I just don't think that its one that everyone should try, and those that will, do so at their own risk and pace. 
 I will still say that if pulled off right, the method works well.
 My mini mod is working perfectly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (for all mini modders: that HD molex cable is delicate, thats all I have to say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## iQEM

well, maybe you're right...than all i have to do right now only check why does my lod didn't work at all...


----------



## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* 
Something I often wonder is how many people that are following the thread have done the diyMod but haven't chimed in yet.

 

I've thought about that too....you know people are doing it. Probably ones who belong to different forums as well. It would be nice to know whos all modding
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I made the mod too (iPod 5.5G) with iQEM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 since december last year, not yet finished, abandon it for a while.


----------



## iQEM

yes, i made the mod with Ron...and yeah a lil bit abandon too, since i haven't got an amp right now...


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe gold is the best conductor, but it's restrictively expensive. At these small lengths, it won't make that much of a difference.

 As for which side of the desoldered resistor pads you need, I couldn't tell you. The only sure way to find out is to check with your DMM if there is 0 ohms between the resistor pad and the leg of the WM8975.

 If you want the signal in the headphone jack, solder the wire to the headphone jack. If you want the signal in both the dock and the headphone jack, send two sets of wires out of the cap: one to the L2 and L3 spots, one to the headphone jack._

 

sorry i asking about this once again...so ipod photo can be mod by making a route/bypass to dock ? i thought it can only be done by routing to headphoneout ?!?!


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Yeah, I thought it was established quite long ago


----------



## johnanderson

I'm thinking about doing this mod to my 4g monochrome ipod w/ a 4gb flash drive but I'm worried about the battery life. Can anyone comment on that? Also, if I do this then I'm going to bypass to the headphone out. Will that be pointless if I only use my ipod for portability?


----------



## wgr73

Battery life shouldnt change. As far as using it as a portable, don't mod the headphone jack...mod the lineout portion and make an LOD with the capacitors inside of that. That way you'll still be able to use the headphone jack.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I thought it was established quite long ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

are you serious KoKo, for ipod photo ? sorry i miss reading maybe...can you give me those link to the page i had to read ?


----------



## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnanderson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking about doing this mod to my 4g monochrome ipod w/ a 4gb flash drive but I'm worried about the battery life. Can anyone comment on that?_

 

Isn't the 4G using harddrive? According to the test, battery life will be relatively much improved, this is the result for iPod Video 5G with CF card :






 Btw, hello everybody, i'm newbie here. Doing DIYmod iPod 5.5G. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for your great tutorial, joneeboi...


----------



## ruZZ.il

Welcome, and sorry bout your wallet muahahaha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Say, is that graph directly from the 4g or the guy who did the mini mod?


----------



## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* 
_Welcome, and sorry bout your wallet muahahaha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hello ruZZ.il... thanks for your advice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* 
_Say, is that graph directly from the 4g or the guy who did the mini mod?_

 

Here's the link to the original articles..


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are you serious KoKo, for ipod photo ? sorry i miss reading maybe...can you give me those link to the page i had to read ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's within the first 40-50 posts. Check the front page.

 Welcome to head-fi, Ron.id. Sorry about your wallet.
 Let us know how your diyMod turns out.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnanderson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking about doing this mod to my 4g monochrome ipod w/ a 4gb flash drive but I'm worried about the battery life. Can anyone comment on that? Also, if I do this then I'm going to bypass to the headphone out. Will that be pointless if I only use my ipod for portability?_

 

What exactly are you worried about for your battery life? It should only improve by my count.

 If you go with the headphone out option, unless you use a headphone amp or headphones with huge impedance, you're going to get a bass roll-off. How much depends on which caps you use and which headphones go with the iPod, but it would be "useless" to go to all that trouble and not receive all the bass information. You could put some huge Kiwames in series to compensate for the low impedance headphones [think f=(2*pi*R*C)^-1] to get corner frequency you need. Granted, the sound isn't going to be as pure, but you'll have a very portable iPod with pretty good sound quality. I mean, the WM8975 was designed to drive headphones anyways, so you could do away with the amp if you wanted.


----------



## gbx2006

Will this DIY Mod work with the ALO iMod LOD cables?

 Also, does this DIY mod give you the same SQ as the iMod?

 I am debating if I should pay the $200 or take a shot at this DIY.

 Sorry if this has been asked before. This thread is huge and I am a slow reader.


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gbx2006* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will this DIY Mod work with the ALO iMod LOD cables?_

 

Yes, but if you do the mod, why not build the cable as well?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gbx2006* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, does this DIY mod give you the same SQ as the iMod?

 I am debating if I should pay the $200 or take a shot at this DIY._

 

In theory, it should give similar performance to the iMod, you are technically doing the same thing, but considering which wire you use, how well you solder might change not only how well it looks at the end, but also how it sounds (cables do make a difference, at least to me).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gbx2006* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has been asked before. This thread is huge and I am a slow reader. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Try the first couple of pages, or search


----------



## gbx2006

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, but if you do the mod, why not build the cable as well?



 In theory, it should give similar performance to the iMod, you are technically doing the same thing, but considering which wire you use, how well you solder might change not only how well it looks at the end, but also how it sounds (cables do make a difference, at least to me).



 Try the first couple of pages, or search 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the info. I think I am going to give this mod a shot.

 I figure since the 5.5 Gen is still on the Apple site for $219, even if I destroy the iPod I have now, I can buy another one and still come out ahead. Assuming that I do not destroy the second one.


----------



## joneeboi

Instead of buying a new iPod if/when you destroy your logic board, it would be better for you fiscally if you just bought a new logic board from one of those iPod part places. Try ifixit.com or iDemiGods.com for a new one around 110 USD.


----------



## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to head-fi, Ron.id. Sorry about your wallet.
 Let us know how your diyMod turns out._

 

My DIYmod is done, implementing figure D.C. in the first page. The Capacitor is Blackgate Nx-HiQ 22uF.

 Sound quality is impressive.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm pairing it with DIY cmoy & Grado SR-125.

 Sorry, no photos yet.


----------



## ruZZ.il

congrats Ron.id 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 +1 joneeboi!


----------



## iQEM

darn, Ron beat me on this...i'm so jealous with him now...


----------



## WindowsX

iPod sound comparison (recorded from lineout)

Free file hosting by Savefile.com


----------



## BrinNutz

I have my wire in the mail, a new battery, and I need to find a really fine, cheap needle point for the soldering iron and really fine solder.

 What size solder have you guys been using?


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_congrats Ron.id 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 +1 joneeboi!_

 

Count it! Kudos, Ron. That indeed was quick. And don't worry about iQEM, he's been doing his diyMod for months now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I believe in you, iQEM)

 WindowsX, what's in the file? I'm on the school computer and we can't extract rar files. =I

 BrinNutz, I'm using thin 0.032" solder. I find it's easier to work with smaller solder: it heats up faster, it's more flexible. The solder doesn't have to be necessarily that small though. Lots of the time, I find myself dabbing a little onto the tip instead of feeding it onto the joint. It's a toss up with such a small working space.


----------



## WindowsX

get winrar and extract them to somewhere. You can try comparison among iMod lineout (I recorded it from its lineout to PC)


----------



## ruZZ.il

I like thin solder too.. even if I have to feed an inch of it to do some heavy spots  are you doing the alternate pin mod? cause otherwise, you don't really need a super fine tip. in fact, I've done everything with my equivalent to a ratshack iron.. albeit, I melted my nanos clickwheel ribbon plug, but the mini mod went flawlessly. I've built a more than 2 hands full of amps and a few alien dacs with the darned iron. I'm looking to find a 240v hakko, but it looks like I'll take what I found, the cheaper imitation of it...


----------



## BrinNutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like thin solder too.. even if I have to feed an inch of it to do some heavy spots  are you doing the alternate pin mod? cause otherwise, you don't really need a super fine tip. in fact, I've done everything with my equivalent to a ratshack iron.. albeit, I melted my nanos clickwheel ribbon plug, but the mini mod went flawlessly. I've built a more than 2 hands full of amps and a few alien dacs with the darned iron. I'm looking to find a 240v hakko, but it looks like I'll take what I found, the cheaper imitation of it..._

 

I don't know about alternate pin mod?

 I have a 4G photo, and in this guide there are only 2 pics of it I think.

 I'm trying to do the mod going to the headphone out jack, not the LOD, though I guess I could, but there's not much on the 4G photo in here.

 I'm also doing the BG cap mod too, those are sitting around here somewhere (I've got 6 of them lying around).

 Here's a link to my post with pics
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/app...ml#post3715693

 Suprisingly, I forgot I took off those resistors, and I found that the phone out jack is still working just fine minus those resistors, so those must be for the LOD.


----------



## joneeboi

Hey BrinNutz,

 You're right about the deficiency in information about the photo. Not as many people have done the diyMod 4G photo and/or reported about it, so we only have as much as you see. In any case, the dock inductors are the same between the photo and click wheel (monochrome), so you can refer to those pictures. As for the headphone out jack, you're going to have to cut the traces leading from the Wolfson to the HP jack's ribbon cable connector. I can't be sure which traces to cut, but you can follow the same idea as Figure B.D (and maybe report on that too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). The Wolfson pins are the same since they're the same model, so look for which pin on the ribbon connector leads us to the headphone jack signal. Let us know how the mod goes and if I need to clarify anything I just said. =T


----------



## BrinNutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey BrinNutz,

 You're right about the deficiency in information about the photo. Not as many people have done the diyMod 4G photo and/or reported about it, so we only have as much as you see. In any case, the dock inductors are the same between the photo and click wheel (monochrome), so you can refer to those pictures. As for the headphone out jack, you're going to have to cut the traces leading from the Wolfson to the HP jack's ribbon cable connector. I can't be sure which traces to cut, but you can follow the same idea as Figure B.D (and maybe report on that too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). The Wolfson pins are the same since they're the same model, so look for which pin on the ribbon connector leads us to the headphone jack signal. Let us know how the mod goes and if I need to clarify anything I just said. =T_

 

It may just be easier to do the LOD mod with the caps, so I don't have to run wire all the way back to the top...

 Dangit, now I need an LOD cable.

 But I do find it odd that the iPod still works with HP jack when those resistors are removed. The other set of resistors must be for the HP jack methinks?


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrinNutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But I do find it odd that the iPod still works with HP jack when those resistors are removed._

 

Yeah, those are the line out's filter resistors. The DAC has multiple outputs, so taking the signal from those resistor pads shouldn't affect the headphone signal.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrinNutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The other set of resistors must be for the HP jack methinks?_

 

Which ones were you talking about?


----------



## BrinNutz

See the pair under where I took the set off already? I think those might be for the HP jack no?


----------



## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Count it! Kudos, Ron. That indeed was quick. And don't worry about iQEM, he's been doing his diyMod for months now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I believe in you, iQEM)_

 

Thanks ruZZ.il & jon... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually iQEM has done the internal wiring of his iPod. His LOD is the only problem. We both use the same dock connector. It's hard to built because actually it's a charger for iPod (4 pins only), modified to act as line-out dock connector. The pins is so tiny and fragile, bend it too much and it will break.

 iQEM already test his iPod diyMod with ALO's iMod dock connector, it worked.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Count it! Kudos, Ron. That indeed was quick. And don't worry about iQEM, he's been doing his diyMod for months now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I believe in you, iQEM)_

 

yeah, my mod work though...last week i had a chance to compare it to Gmod (my friend owned it) using ALO supercotton to Corda2MOVE + same cans...me & him pretty sure that the different's there (separation & bass) but the diff come from my nano 1st GEN 2gb, that only use 192kbps source (the real Gmod using lossless)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hooray !!!


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ron.id* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks ruZZ.il & jon... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually iQEM has done the internal wiring of his iPod. His LOD is the only problem. We both use the same dock connector. It's hard to built because actually it's a charger for iPod (4 pins only), modified to act as line-out dock connector. The pins is so tiny and fragile, bend it too much and it will break.

 iQEM already test his iPod diyMod with ALO's iMod dock connector, it worked._

 

yup...that's what i've talked about, it's not an regular ALO lod to mini...it's an ALO supercotton...yay !


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrinNutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See the pair under where I took the set off already? I think those might be for the HP jack no?_

 

I see what you're talking about. I think that those caps still might be for the dock because the coupling caps for the headphone jack should be on the headphone jack PCB. I can't say for sure for the photo, but at least in my 4G click wheel the coupling caps are on the HPJ PCB.

 I've counted you on the OP too now, iQEM. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You should have mentioned you finished it. I remember seeing "diyMod nano (99% complete)" in your sig not too long ago, but now it's changed. And how come you don't buy a new iPod dock? By itself, it's very cheap, and shipping is very reasonable from Ridax in Sweden. I have an iPod FM transmitter and the dock could only be used for music and charging since they closed off the other pins. If you bought a new one, you could use it for whatever you wanted.

 edit: I've linked a new CF to 1.8" adapter on the front page. It's probably a more reliable source, since my eBay CF adapter cost me 15 pounds (???). Also, I found a neat page with an iPod nano 1G dissection with very clear photos. It might be worth checking out. I discovered it while researching how to increase the nano's flash memory capacity.


----------



## BrinNutz

Got my wire today from John's shop on eBay!

 WTH am I going to do with this much, I just needed a couple feet lol

 I need to find somewhere local for fine tip and find solder, unless someone has some extras I can have?


----------



## joneeboi

There are 3 Radio Shacks in your lovely city. You should be able to find what you need there, along with different gauge/colour hookup wiring if you didn't like the navships stuff. Pick up some KSC75s while you're there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, when Radio Shack went out of business not much more than a year ago, I stocked up on like, 7 KSC75s which have all somehow disappeared. They were going for $10 a pop. It'll probably be a bit more expensive there. But anywho, you should be able to find whatever you need at RS. Costs a couple bucks, most likely.


----------



## BrinNutz

Rock on jon, I'll hopefully check tomorrow!


 I am having a problem now putting the case back together with the new battery and HD in (worked fine with old battery) where the screen works when not in compressed area, but when I put pressure to push the case together, the screen lights up but has no text, a reset does it fine after pulling it apart though.


----------



## joneeboi

Hm, try to keep the battery as flush as possible. I'm struggling to imagine how the screen can mess up with the HD pushing against it. The PCB is big enough that it should disperse the pressure. Are your wires + hot glue + general tangle causing undue pressure on your screen?

 Oh yes, and I forgot to mention, though I'm sure some have noticed by now. Happy 50,000th view! *party emoticon*


----------



## fatman711

when making the dock,

 since the blackgates can be in series with the signal, can I just solder both pins of the blackgates + the wire to the connector pins?


 so basically three parts to the one pin?

 thanks


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatman711* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_when making the dock,

 since the blackgates can be in series with the signal, can I just solder both pins of the blackgates + the wire to the connector pins?


 so basically three parts to the one pin?

 thanks_

 

Huh?

 The blackgates are in series with the signal (pins 3 and 4). You solder the caps to each of those pins with wires going to to the other legs on the caps and another wine going to pins 1 and 2 for ground.


----------



## joneeboi

It's not too clear in the image, but I think you can gather from what's there and the information FallenAngel just dropped.

 Pins 1 and 2: Go straight to ground
 Pin 3: Pin to one BG leg, other BG leg to right channel wire
 Pin 4: Pin to one BG leg (different BG), other BG leg to left channel wire

 wgr73





 ruZZ.il (he used different pins)


----------



## fatman711

correct me if I'm wrong, but If I want to do a 4 wire braid, 2 ground, 1R and 1L, I can use pins 1 and 2 for ground right?

 thanks a lot for the replies


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatman711* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_correct me if I'm wrong, but If I want to do a 4 wire braid, 2 ground, 1R and 1L, I can use pins 1 and 2 for ground right?

 thanks a lot for the replies_

 

Yep. Use either one or both of those pins, they're connected on the iPod PCB anyway.

_joneeboi_ - damn buddy, you always have fantastic details in your answers, I always just leave little notes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And hey, 6 more posts before 1000


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## Ron.id

Hope this could help :


----------



## Ramblingman

I think im right but i just want to double check..

 Im modding a 5.5g ipod but im not going to mod it to the line out. Im gonig to drill a hole in the back and run the wires straight through the caps and to the amp.

 Anyway what i was wondering was where would be the best place to take the ground from? I was thinking of just using the existing ground in the normal headphone out (solder a wire inside the socket or something..) is there any reason why this wouldnt work?

 Thanks for the help so far guys! Ive learnt so much from all of you in this thread.


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ramblingman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think im right but i just want to double check..

 Im modding a 5.5g ipod but im not going to mod it to the line out. Im gonig to drill a hole in the back and run the wires straight through the caps and to the amp.

 Anyway what i was wondering was where would be the best place to take the ground from? I was thinking of just using the existing ground in the normal headphone out (solder a wire inside the socket or something..) is there any reason why this wouldnt work?

 Thanks for the help so far guys! Ive learnt so much from all of you in this thread._

 

I'm not positive on this, but just to be safe, take the output ground from the lineout ground (wherever you can trace it back to), but if by some chance the headphone ground is active, you don't want this! See if you can find a ground pin on the DAC chip and take the ground channel from there, the same as the signal to avoid any troubles.


----------



## Ramblingman

Thanks for the tip! that could have been a bit of a mess 

 any ideas where to look for the lineout ground?


----------



## BrinNutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, try to keep the battery as flush as possible. I'm struggling to imagine how the screen can mess up with the HD pushing against it. The PCB is big enough that it should disperse the pressure. Are your wires + hot glue + general tangle causing undue pressure on your screen?

 Oh yes, and I forgot to mention, though I'm sure some have noticed by now. Happy 50,000th view! *party emoticon*_

 

I haven't even done the mod yet! =)


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see what you're talking about. I think that those caps still might be for the dock because the coupling caps for the headphone jack should be on the headphone jack PCB. I can't say for sure for the photo, but at least in my 4G click wheel the coupling caps are on the HPJ PCB.

 I've counted you on the OP too now, iQEM. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You should have mentioned you finished it. I remember seeing "diyMod nano (99% complete)" in your sig not too long ago, but now it's changed. And how come you don't buy a new iPod dock? By itself, it's very cheap, and shipping is very reasonable from Ridax in Sweden. I have an iPod FM transmitter and the dock could only be used for music and charging since they closed off the other pins. If you bought a new one, you could use it for whatever you wanted._

 

yup, i plan to order some dock on Qables...maybe less than dissassamble wallcharger all the time...lol still count for the shipping costs to indo though, i hope it's cheaper than normal... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 note:
 i used to buy parts/acessories from ebay but haven't try to buy things from Qables...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edit: I've linked a new CF to 1.8" adapter on the front page. It's probably a more reliable source, since my eBay CF adapter cost me 15 pounds (???). Also, I found a neat page with an iPod nano 1G dissection with very clear photos. It might be worth checking out. I discovered it while researching how to increase the nano's flash memory capacity._

 

interesting, but why only the white ipod nano 1stGEN that had a flash on seperated PCB, not on the logicboard itself ? strange...


----------



## joneeboi

Thanks, Fallen and Ron, for your input. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And Fallen, I can't believe my 1000+ Member status is coming up. I haven't even prepared a speech yet!

 Ramblingman:

 Check out the 5.5G's datasheet and look for pins 31 and 28. We don't exactly have a photo showing these pins, but I'm sure you can figure it out.

 iQEM:

 4GB nanos have the flash on a separate daughter card, like you see in the photo. I'm thinking you could take another 4GB flash, solder it onto the empty slot and try for an 8GB nano. Someone can try it.


----------



## gbx2006

After taking apart my 5.5 Gen, I realized that I do not have the tools or the skills to perform this mod.

 Thanks anyways for the great idea, but I am going to have to fork over the $250 to red wine and get the iMod.


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## Ramblingman

Thanks for the link Joneeboi, that has been a great help and i think ive located the 2 pins you are talking about. 






 It looks like pin 28 just goes no where but i think ill be able to connect to the little silver circle that the green arrow is pointing to for pin 31. What do you reckon?

 Thanks again for the help guys


----------



## joneeboi

That's a great picture, Ramblingman. I think you could conceivably solder your wire to that circle. Just remember that the wires, solder and hot glue will all push up on the front panel so that the click wheel will cave in a little. Make sure your work is super clean and that you cut the signal to the headphone jack. Routing the wires around the metal frame to the back plate will also affect your fit. Think of where you want to drill the hole ahead of time so that you minimize wire travel. Think of how you're going to secure the wires both near the DAC and near the drilled hole. If you're using something really small, you may not have to worry as much. If not, you'll have to be more careful about these things. Let us know what your progress is like.


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## Ron.id

Ramblingman, that pin is too close to "next button". I think if you solder a wire there, the thickness of the wire will make a problem when pushing that button.


----------



## Ramblingman

Thanks for the tips and concern guys, the wire im using is 30 AWG silver plated Kynar wire so its really thin and i think i might get away with connecting so close to the button. Ill test before i close it up completely.

 Im just not sure where else i could hook up a ground? 

 Also where is the best place to disconnect the signal to the headphone jack? Wouldnt this be done when the "Z" caps or whatever they are are removed?

 Ill hopefully get some time tonight to solder it up and ill post pics when i get it finished and together.

 The caps im going to probably use are 5.6uF 250VDC Metallised Polypropylene caps but i also have some 22uF electrolytic caps to try but no black gates at the moment, they are taking their time to arrive!


----------



## joneeboi

Since you're not using the headphone jack for the line out, you won't need to cut its signal. There are some coupling caps right near the HPJ ribbon cable which would cut the signal if removed, but you don't need to do that.


----------



## ntrl

Hi All!

 I want upgrade on my ipod 4th gen 4GB CF card kingston on
 16GB or 32GB CF cards vendors by noname like this (150x)
 or this
 or adata speedy.

 Possible simple change CF cards? Exists anybody non-compatibeles
 with ipod 4gen and CF cards by noname vendors and large size?

 Thanx.

 PS. sorry for bad English


----------



## joneeboi

Hi ntrl, welcome to head-fi. Sorry about your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't know of any cards not mixing well with the iPod 4Gs, but I have heard that A-Data works with the iPod minis. I don't know what the issue would be, but check out the thread, http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/my...d-mini-290743/. ruZZ.il had a Sandisk Extreme III that didn't work in his iPod mini 1G IIRC, but I haven't seen a compatibility chart laying out cards and iPod models anywhere.

 edit: Never mind, it seems you've already checked that thread. In that case, I can't really help you. =I


----------



## Ramblingman

IT WORKS! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and sounds great! 

 Thanks so much for all the help along the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The next track button works perfectly too, ill post pics soon... just want to do some more fiddling with some caps i have lying around.


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## FallenAngel

Well, I just picked up a 2nd gen iPod Mini for a CF mod and another diyMod, any more helpful info it? First page with one photo looks very thin on the info


----------



## joneeboi

Sounds good, Ramblingman (at least I hope it does 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 What kind of info were you looking for, Fallen? I don't actually know if C53/C54 is L/R, so you're going to have to do some trekking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Open her up, remove the LCD screen to find the silkscreen labels for the dock inductors, desolder the usual culprits, then solder a very short wire from here to there. I think it's fairly straightforward, but a clever guy such as yourself could figure something out if it doesn't work out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ruZZ.il did the mini 1G if you need any more insight.

 Looks like the mini is making a comeback. I guess Apple was wrong about the nano after all.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM:

 4GB nanos have the flash on a separate daughter card, like you see in the photo. I'm thinking you could take another 4GB flash, solder it onto the empty slot and try for an 8GB nano. Someone can try it._

 

oh, it can be done ? well, maybe later...now my ipod (headphone out) a lil' bit strange, if i lower the volume to 50% and more, the sound moved ALL to left channel...but it come back to stereo if i turn up the volume to 70% to max...what's wrong with this ipod of mine ?!


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## wgr73

iQEM, where did you ground you output?


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## iQEM

huh ? i thought we dont have make ground on the inside ? fyi that's happen when i'm hearing dirrect from headphone out...haven't test the line out yet, since i dont have an amp right now...


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## joneeboi

I'm sorry to hear about your iPod, iQEM. I really couldn't tell you what was happening with your iPod. Did you mess anything up when diyModding it? Check around the Wolfson, the headphone jack, anywhere you did any work. Kinda basic diagnostic testing but that's all we can really go on here.

 As the rest of you know, I never stop thinking about improving this thread. I rediscovered an iPod repair/parts website which, as luck would have it, has another set of guides for opening iPods. They make the iVue, a clear front panel for iPods so you can look uber cool with an inside view of your iPod. I try to look for websites that offer not only an iPod repair service but also the parts for us DIYers to replace free of labour and shipping charges. I present, Rapid Repair: iPod Repair, iPhone Repair, Batteries, LCD Screens and more!.


----------



## wgr73

My bad iQEM, I must have read your post wrong....nevermind


----------



## joneeboi

Good news. I finally got around to hooking up my VitQs to my diyMod. I didn't think that the sound could change so much, but after a bit of listening, I did pick up on some minute details better with the Qs than the BGs. It also seemed like the bass was a bit boomier and separation was a little better too. It's not as practical a solution as the BGs because the BGs can fit into the iPod; the size difference is exponential. I'm just working on some different docks, so I'll give it more time for enjoyment. Nevertheless, initial reports are positive.


----------



## Ramblingman

Here are some pics from my mod. What is really nice about it is that i can now use the input jack from the tomahawk as a line out and i don't have to have any bulky LOD connectors and cables sticking out


----------



## joneeboi

Absolutely fantastic work, Ramblingman. I like how you personalized it exactly to your needs. I especially love how well you routed your wires. Lemme guess, 30AWG or 28AWG wires? I'll go with 28AWG. And what kind of caps are those?

 Again, great work and fine photography. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Ramblingman

Thanks for the compliments joneeboi! I really enjoyed doing this mod and its so nice to have everything just work out great with no expensive mishaps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The wire is some 30awg silver plated copper... no idea what brand its just from the local electronic store. Same with the caps, not sure which brand but they fitted on the bottom of the ipod pretty nicely and were the "high quality" metallised polypropylene caps (5.6uF) that they had. 

 Probably not the best but they are an improvement on the original ipod's sound. If i can find a better cap in a similar size ill put it in for sure.

 I just want to thank everyone again, couldn't have done this mod without you guys!


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry to hear about your iPod, iQEM. I really couldn't tell you what was happening with your iPod. Did you mess anything up when diyModding it? Check around the Wolfson, the headphone jack, anywhere you did any work. Kinda basic diagnostic testing but that's all we can really go on here._

 

i guess not...still check all over the ipod again, but my LOD had finished now...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 wish me luck, guys...thx !

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My bad iQEM, I must have read your post wrong....nevermind_

 

it's OK wgr...


----------



## joneeboi

Good luck, iQEM!

 I added some gallery-type links to the OP. I finished another diyMod for someone recently, and it feels good to be able to hear its music flowing into my ears.

 Further report on the BG/VitQ situation. I tried VitQs and found it to have a nice sound. My test methodology was to pass reference tracks through an inattentive mind and see what differences my mind could pick up. The reasoning behind this type of test is that the mind filters out that which remains relatively constant; think morning routines and "waking up on the wrong side of bed." If something changes, your mind will be all, "What^ mate?" Through some quieter passages in Explosions in the Sky's latest album "All of a Sudden I Miss Everyone," I picked up on an egg keeping the beat during "The Birth and Death of the Day," something that usually wasn't as distinct and clear through the BGs. FR balance seemed quite similar to the BGs as well. Then I tried VitQs bypassed with BGs/BGs bypassed with VitQs. I heard absolutely no difference with this setup. I could hear a very faint click every time I went from bypassed to unbypassed and back, but beyond that there wasn't a real noticeable difference. As always, YMMV. I did like the VitQs as a final result, but I probably won't be using it for some time. I have to try it in my MAX next, but I need some time to acclimatize to its sound before the swap (see methodology reasoning above).


----------



## fatman711

Sweet! I made an Imod dock. I am pretty comfortable with regular LODS but the caps were tough to route. 

 Will this cable work with an actual Imod?


----------



## FallenAngel

Hey guys,

 I finally got my Gen2 Mini in, it has a broken headphone jack so it was a steal at $41 shipped express 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not that I care about the jack anyway.

 I will be modding this iPod Mini with a 16GB CF card, replacing the battery with a 850mAh battery and of course doing the diyMod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since this page helped me so much in modding my 5G iPod Video, I thought it was only right to help back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 First and foremost, the DAC in the 2nd Gen Mini is the WM8711L, the same as the 1G iPod Mini.

 I will leave out how to open the iPod such info, but I'll try to fill in some experimenting.

 On the WM8711:
 Pin 16 : Left Line Out
 Pin 17 : Right Line Out
 Pin 19 : Analog Ground

 C69 : Pin 3 (Right)
 C70 : Pin 4 (Left)

 I haven't figured what L7/L8 are tied to, probably never will, unless somebody knows.

 The good thing is that the anodes of C53 and C54 do trace back to the WM8711 with only a few ohms of resistance which is likely because of the tiny trace making its way down the PCB.

_joneeboi_ : Thanks for a wonderful guide, I've verified that the diyMod for the 2G iPod will work exactly the same as written, but my caps look a little different - yours say 106J and look tantalum, mine say "Ja" and I'm not sure what they are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here are a few photos of what the diyMod 2G Mini looks like:

 Naked iPod front




 Naked iPod back




 Under the battery : WM8711L




 diyMod diagram




 diyMod completed




 Do note that the wires are connected to the "top" part of C69/C70, away from the iPod connector.

 I will be doing the Compact Flash mod next and battery replacement soon, pics will follow.

 Hope this helps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT:
 4GB Hard drive replaced with 16GB A-Data Compact Flash card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This mod can barely be called DIY, just unplug the drive and plug the CF card in, that's it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your iTunes should recognize it as a non-formatted/non-working/new iPod and you'll "Restore" it in about 30 seconds. *Do note, to be on the safe side, update the firmware to the latest version before doing this mod!*

 Photos:

 Back with CF Card:




 Front with Info:




 Battery replacement to come in a few days and then my artistic abilities will be tested in making the case look nice, although I already have chipped off a small piece of the plastic screen protector


----------



## joneeboi

Great stuff, Fallen and fatman. It's reassuring to hear that people are still being active with their diyModding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 fatman, did you ever get around to fixing that nano 2G?

 Fallen, I can't fully express my gratitude for the photos. I mean, I already have the mini 2G and could very well have taken them myself, but that's not what I'm grateful for. It's that fact that you were kind enough to come back to contribute to the thread and help other diyModders and beginners with their journey. I don't mean to single you out and ignore everyone else, because there have been numerous gracious individuals who have helped with this thread; wgr73, vvs_75, CAvanessia, aaronylee, cfcubed, Ramblingman, jERiCOh, ferds, KerryKing, KoKoKrunch, ruZZ.il, [size=medium][size=x-small]BrinNutz, iQEM[/size][/size], [size=medium][size=x-small]pcyl, ishtob, [/size][/size][size=medium][size=x-small]Jambo, [/size][/size][size=medium][size=x-small]jERiCOh, [/size][/size][size=medium][size=x-small]KoKoKrunch, no_eye_dear[/size][/size][size=medium][size=x-small]. I don't think I have everyone there, but you get the idea. Thank you for your support, head-fi.

 I'll post some of your photos on the OP. I believe that the dock inductors we've seen in almost every iPod since the 4G acts similarly to the ferrite bead in the Mini^3, counteracting cable capacitance. They're fairly tiny, so desoldering would be on a full-confidence only requirement. Anyway, your work looks good, Fallen. Enjoy your 16GB diyMod mini 2G! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 [/size][/size]


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Haha, it's great seeing so many still playing around with the mods... I've actually just sold my mod away today, couldn't really bear to at first... but decided to do so since I was using it at home 99% of the time I might as well get a proper deskbound DAC... There's always a cool sense of achievement after finishing the mod. And Jon, good luck with your work with the digital out, looking forward to it!


----------



## joneeboi

Yeah, about that. I don't think I'll continue with that project. I'm actually working on an uber-portable DAC/amp project minus the iPod. I figured that one could wire the iPod to give its i2S signal to connect to the DAC in the Pico. All of this is taking place in theory, of course.


----------



## FallenAngel

Little update, the CF card mod is done and post #991 edited.

 16GB Solid-State diyMod for under $100


----------



## joneeboi

Things look great, Fallen. I'm glad you took a shot of the "About" screen, because some people are hard to please with these kinds of mods.

 Enjoy your cheap 16GB solid state audio player.


----------



## wgr73

Fallen, that 16GB mod is tempting. I want to mod one pretty bad! Update us on the battery life if you would, thanks!


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fallen, that 16GB mod is tempting. I want to mod one pretty bad! Update us on the battery life if you would, thanks!_

 






 I'm already getting a second one because my girlfriend is threatening to steal mine (it's painted gloss black with a little modification 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and since she paints, she wants to do some special design on the back. This of course means I won't likely see it again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pics to follow next week when I get the replacement screen up.

 Battery life - I just got the *supposedly* 850mAh battery yesterday, did a full charge, recorded the time (12:30am PST) and started to play it on repeat, 14 hours later, it's 2:30pm now and it looks to have about 1/4 battery left, so far so good. I was concerned because the battery doesn't actually say "850mAh" it just says "FOR APL MINI Li-ion battery 3.7V". I'll update with exact time the battery dies for full runtime.


----------



## FallenAngel

Update: OK, after *26 hours* of playing music, it's still going but the scrolling of the track title is getting a little sluggish and the track time isn't moving smoothly, but everything still sounds fantastic. The battery indicator has been on empty for hours, but I don't care and can definitely say that that the battery swap is WELL WORTH IT for only $5 ($1 battery + $4 shipping)! I'm turning this thing off just because I know I'll never use it for 26 hours without recharge anyway and have proven the point to myself enough to let it rest.


----------



## joneeboi

Holler! I've got a CF adapter for my 4G which I'm considering converting to flash, but I haven't decided on 16GB or 32GB. I got a 1200mAh battery in my 4G, so who knows? Maybe I can get iPod classic-like battery life.

 Huzzah for post 1000.


----------



## KoKoKrunch

Hahaha, Jon, all this info is more than enough for a website!


----------



## ruZZ.il

YAY 1k! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Shows how far your efforts have really gone. Thanks!


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## wgr73

Crazy fallen!! Thats insane. I may just have to get one!!

 And congrats Jon on your 1000th post!!


----------



## CAvanessia

congrats Jon!


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## joneeboi

Thank you, thank you, thanks for coming out everyone. I'd like to thank everyone who made this possible. Essentially, it's everyone who posted in this thread. You know who you are. Thank you and good night! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You might ask "where do we go from here?" "Onward and upward," as a great man once said, onward and upward. Here's to 1000 more. Cheers, everyone. *clinks champagne glass* Tip your moderators and administrators.


----------



## Ramblingman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, about that. I don't think I'll continue with that project. I'm actually working on an uber-portable DAC/amp project minus the iPod. I figured that one could wire the iPod to give its i2S signal to connect to the DAC in the Pico. All of this is taking place in theory, of course._

 

WOOOOOOOOOOOoooooo! Now that is exciting! Have you got a thread somewhere where i can monitor this mod cos its one i will have to do! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I love your work joneeboi!

 Edit: found the i2S thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 some very interesting reading!


----------



## joneeboi

Thanks, Ramblingman. I do my work on the DAC/amp in low frequency, small increments, so don't hold your breath. =I

 Aside from that, I added some more sources for iPod dock connectors on OP, Mouser, Digikey, and Allied Electronics. I still stand by Ridax as the main source, though it can take up to two weeks for them to deliver. Mouser, Digikey, and Allied only offer one kind, anyway. Nevertheless, the convenience is there.


----------



## barqy

Does any one have any extra BG caps (47uf) for sale?

 BTW, can a 4th gen ipod be modified so it uses the line out (like in a 5th gen?) or is it just more convient to stuff it the ipod itself and go through the headphone jack?


 thanks guys/gals


----------



## joneeboi

The 4G can go both ways as well as a combo of the two: you can stuff the 4G and send the signal to the line out. Check out the OP for the method and the various examples by me, KoKoKrunch, ferds, KerryKing, and no_eye_dear. Figure B.B will be especially helpful to you.


----------



## NumpXP

dammit! i just lifted left side of pad (north of the wolfson). any other point that connected to that ?

 and is it normal for ipod to show sad face after removal of inductors and caps( but before soldering the wire)?


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NumpXP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dammit! i just lifted left side of pad (north of the wolfson). any other point that connected to that ?_

 

Just check the datasheet, there is a pin on the left side of the chip a few from the top that you can use, that's what I did when I lifted this pad as well.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NumpXP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and is it normal for ipod to show sad face after removal of inductors and caps( but before soldering the wire)?_

 

Uhm... that doesn't look normal. I haven't tried, but I would seriously doubt this to be "normal".


----------



## joneeboi

That happened in one of my 4Gs. I accidentally took out L4 or C56 and then it basically killed my iPod. The good/bad thing about the diyMod is that you can replace the logic board when something like this happens and it doesn't cost all that much compared to a full on iMod. Nevertheless, logic boards don't come cheap. Does your iPod still connect to your computer? If so, a restore may be in order.

 Aside from that one bad experience with the 4G, I haven't experienced any sad iPod faces with other diyMods, and I've done already done a few at this point (for myself, for other members). Luckily, my other friend just so happened to have a broken iPod right when I broke mine, and it just happened to start working when I received it. He bought an iPod touch to replace it, so I burnt his music onto some DVDs to give back to him. Now I can use it for replacement parts if anything else gets broken. So not all hope is lost, though, if I were you, I'd run through the software fixes before doing anything too drastic. Keep us posted.


----------



## FallenAngel

Personal little horror story:

 The new iPod Mini 2G works perfectly, runs 26 hours on a single battery charge, I just finish the casing, slide it in and all of a sudden I get the battery error icon, scrollwheel doesn't respond and nothing everything is frozen without being able to reset it, windows does not recognize it, nothing!

 After a few days of screwing with it, I realized that it all leads back to the clickwheel, if you put it on HOLD, windows sees it and switching HOLD on/off starts rockbox when it's in HOLD position. Somehow this also drained the battery as well, no idea how that fits in yet.

 Just this morning, I decided to play with it a little and discovered that the clickwheel connector had a lifted solder joint; re-soldered it and everything works perfectly again! Completely weird symptoms for bad keypad! Now charging battery to see if it holds a charge or if something went wrong with it.

 Note to anybody doing iPod Mini mods : be gentle with the clickwheel connectors and double check them first if something is wrong.


----------



## ruZZ.il

hm. I had that (sad face)when I messed up one of those molex connectors that hook up the little compact flash sized HD's to the mini. I was going bonkers till I mixed and matched stuff and pinpointed it to that. I've got one in from a friends old mini too now, and for a few bucks, 2 on their way in the mail. I also knocked off some transistor when I tried to stick it back into its case while slightly misaligned once.. 
 whoops.. but I managed to solder it back on nicely, so all was good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 sh(poop) happens.. and can often be solved. But the risk is always there... AAnyway.

 Jon, didja get my message/email after all? check your spam 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The canare cable is really easy to work with, it fits just right with a little bit of work. I made myself a prototype modLOD with it where I've basically bridged the standard L/R pins to the ones I used (14/17), so the dock would work with both a standard mod (which I'll probably stick to in the future for standardization) and one with pins 14/17. As usual, the sound isn't overly impressive yet.. the BGs will have to flex a bit first. Again, thanks a ton! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Reply to my mail.. I'll try get onto it next week.

 edit: F.A: I know what you mean too  the mini clickwheel ribbon is at-least much easier to work with. its even somewhat fixable. those molex plugs though..

 Jon, I think you should add a nice big general disclaimer thing on the first page, like "Go beyond this point at your own risk!" kind of thing. I personally cant help temptation when it comes to soldering 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but it should be known that its not always an easy mod.. and things are likely to go wrong for most people.. somewhere.. sometime.. dundaduuuu


----------



## NumpXP

thanks god.. my ipod is no sad face any more! it turned out that i mis-inserted the hdisk ribbon.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so continue with fixing the lifted pad...

 wish me luck


----------



## joneeboi

No new email, Russ. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't know what it is. I already added you to my contact list.

 Good to hear it, NumpXP. Enjoy your diyMod. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think now would be a pretty good time to ask everyone for their pearls of wisdom that we can pass on to future diyModders. I just added a Guidelines section to the OP, some general advice on how to successfully diyMod one's iPod. If everyone else could weigh in here (since the last few posts already have taken this direction), I think it would be of great help to everyone. For example,

 I almost lost some screws for a 5G. Keep your screws in a safe place.

 I mauled the little black flap on the nano 1G's click wheel ribbon cable connector. To fix the problem, I shoved a piece of paper into the slot to add the necessary pressure to allow the iPod to work. The same goes for pretty much every connector of the kind, be it nano, 4G, 5G.

 I destroyed a back plate when I tried opening an iPod, in the sense that it couldn't close anymore. Those things that latch onto the front bezel's clippy parts got removed from the back plate, so now I have to get a new back plate from eBay. Not too pricey, but a little caution would have saved me some trouble.

 Please weigh in, friends.


----------



## NumpXP

I used a sucker to suck flooded iron, but i got a lifted pad instead. so be careful with suckers, just make sure the iron thoroughly melted or don't use sucker at all coz it sucks pretty hard.


----------



## joneeboi

I haven't had to use the sucker for any of the diyMods, actually. Typically, the solder comes off onto the iron tip, so most of my desoldering is done in a snap; I braid if it ever comes to it though. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## iQEM

Trend of these day, i've seen Sad icon almost everywhere, and at this topic too...i failed to fix 2 problem on my friends ipod video, cos i dont know what or how to repair em...


----------



## wgr73

Hey Jon, another thing you may want to add to your "be careful" list is not over tightening the LCD panel screws. The plastic that holds this in place is very soft. Just a thought. Also, check out what happened to me last Friday!!!


----------



## powertoold

Is this mod still worth messing up your iPod if there isn't much of a difference?


----------



## joneeboi

I suppose if you frame the question like that...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 No, it's not worth messing up your iPod, especially if there isn't a difference in sound. That's why there is the overload of warnings and disclaimers at the beginning: don't do the mod unless you believe you can do it without destroying your iPod. Either find someone who can do it for you, or practise until you hone the ability to pull it off. There is a definite bass rolloff with the coupling caps used in the iPod, and I noticed a huge shift in bass information after performing the mod. Your mileage may vary, but that's at least what I noticed. Whether the sound difference is "worth it" really is up to you to decide after it's done. It's just one of those things, unless you mod it such that you can ABX the signals, which is quite easily done, actually.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this mod still worth messing up your iPod if there isn't much of a difference?_

 

is you asking about that, NO...

 but i believe all ppl here know that this is an DIY project, so mod your ipod only IF you can take the risk bricken your ipod...if you cannot accept the risks, dont do it...find someone to do that for you, example: RWA !


----------



## joneeboi

So, I picked up an iPod touch V2.

 Maybe we'll see a mod for that once my hands stop shaking and excitement wears and the carelessness combines with courage to allow me to diyMod this sucker. Don't count on it being anytime soon though.


----------



## CAvanessia

I have an apple ipod touch too. it's so nice, but it's a little too expensive for me to mod =D


----------



## barqy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 4G can go both ways as well as a combo of the two: you can stuff the 4G and send the signal to the line out. Check out the OP for the method and the various examples by me, KoKoKrunch, ferds, KerryKing, and no_eye_dear. Figure B.B will be especially helpful to you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 thanks joneeeboi!


 I was wondering if you plan on stuffing the caps inside the 4th gen ala RWA does, can the hold function still be saved?


 I remember someone had to take out the ribbon cable b/c there wasn't enough room in the top left corner....

 edit:

 is the purpose of cutting the traces in this pic: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...i/DSC02576.jpg to give the 'purist' signal to the headphone jack? if not, why do it


 thanks


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *barqy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is the purpose of cutting the traces in this pic: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...i/DSC02576.jpg to give the 'purist' signal to the headphone jack? if not, why do it_

 

I'm pretty sure it's so that you don't mix the DAC output with the internal headphone amp output. You'll obviously only want the DAC signal.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I picked up an iPod touch V2.

 Maybe we'll see a mod for that once my hands stop shaking and excitement wears and the carelessness combines with courage to allow me to diyMod this sucker. Don't count on it being anytime soon though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Mod the sucker, mod the sucker! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Little news update: Finally I am getting this 16GB Flash, diyModded, battery updated and Rockboxed 2G Mini off the table and starting to use it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No headphone jack, metal end-panel on top, all black 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Unfortunately after painting it black (there was originally no black iPod Mini), I realized that the paint stuck to the inner part of the hole for the clickwheel and to get proper use of the clickwheel, I had to remove that, which chipped the case a little. Considering how hard it is to paint it properly, I'm thinking I'll leave it as is until I have lots of free time on my hands to do it meticulously.


----------



## joneeboi

barqy:

 If you want to use the 4G's headphone jack for the line out, you need to cut the original signal somehow. You can remove the coupling caps situated on the headphone jack PCB, or you can take a small hobby knife and cut the traces on the main logic board.

 Playing a bit more with the touch, I feel it doesn't really fill any gap in my repertoire of media players. All I really "need" it for is a video player for the gym, which I attend at most twice a week during this time in my life. I am really leaning towards trading it for an iPod 5.5G 80GB. The multi-touch screen is wicked cool, but it probably won't see all that much use. I don't mind watching videos on a smaller screen, it's just that I have so much video to convert that I'd like to have it done all at the same time and have it all fit in one player so I don't have to juggle to compensate for the small memory capacity. I still don't know whether or not I will diyMod this baby before I put it up for trade/sale, so I'm going to need a little more motivation from you guys.


----------



## barqy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_barqy:

 If you want to use the 4G's headphone jack for the line out, you need to cut the original signal somehow. You can remove the coupling caps situated on the headphone jack PCB, or you can take a small hobby knife and cut the traces on the main logic board._

 

cool thanks


----------



## RMod

Hi all, first post here.

 First, I'd like to give props to all that have forged ahead and did their own mods and posted about it here. It gave me enough incentive to try my own mod, which I will call the RMod. More on that later.

 How this all started for me is that about 6 months ago, I was given an Adcom 5802 amp with one bad channel. I'm an EET, but haven't worked in the industry for over 10 years, but figured I could fix it when I found the time. Fast forward to last week, when I found a bad zener and brought the right channel back to life. I purchased some Polk SDA speakers and an Adcom 565 preamp and was thinking about a playback device and iPods popped in my head. Doing the research for high quality iPod audio eventually led me here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This brings me to the RMod. The mods here are great, but I had several criteria I wanted to meet:

 1) I wanted it to work with a 5G 80G iPod
 2) I wanted the mod to be *fully enclosed *in a stock iPod case - nice and neat
 3) Black Gates as the caps of choice. (hint: think Super E)
 4) I wanted to be able to dock the iPod normally so I could have remote control capability and on-screen menus - I'm lazy and don't want to get up if I don't have to ;p

 I just completed the RMod on the iPod a little while ago. The dock won't be here for a few days, so I can't fully test until then.

 Anyone interested in hearing more?


----------



## joneeboi

Welcome to head-fi, RMod. Sorry about your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That sounds really interesting. I think everyone will be waiting eagerly to see how you fit the Black Gates into the iPod. Super E you say? Does that mean you're using 4 caps total? At any rate, thanks for sharing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad we could be of help.


----------



## wgr73

Yeah, lets hear more! It sounds interesting!


----------



## RMod

It seems that the memstick for the camera is MIA. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll have to get a new one and when I do, I'll post the pics in a new thread. 

 Sorry about the drama.


----------



## fatman711

does anyone know how to wire up a mini usb female jack to the LODs? I want to be able to charge while playing.

 planning to get this but this is 5 pin. What is that extra pin for?

20,USB 5-Pin Female Right-Angle PCB Mount Jack RoHS,112 - (eBay.ca item 300184981494 end time 23-Mar-08 23:02:22 EDT)


----------



## joneeboi

mini-USB connector pinout and signals @ pinouts.ru
USB pinout and signals @ pinouts.ru

 Why not just use 4 pin jacks?


----------



## fatman711

thanks for the links jon. I just thought that this would be convenient to ofer. Going by the pictures, it just looks like the 4th pin is not used on the mini jack. Am I correct?


 thanks a lot.


----------



## FallenAngel

Some more info on iPod Touch potential modding (a little encouragement for _joneeboi_






 ).

iFixit &mdash; iPod Touch

 Note how close the WM8758 is to the headphone connector, could it really be that simple to run a few wires straight to connector?


----------



## joneeboi

fatman711:

 You are correct, sir! You can use those jacks by just omitting the 4th pin, no big deal.

 Fallen:

 I was trying to open up the Touch yesterday morning, but my tools weren't making it any easier for me. I have to pick up some spare parts for some iPods, so I'll have to wait until then to get real results. I've studied that iFixit opening guide except that it doesn't help me get over that first hump of opening the darn thing! I got it going a little bit at first, but my pry tools crapped out so badly that I don't think I'm going to use it anymore. There was also this lot that opened the Touch, and they're a bit more helpful, though not by much. There's also an actual video of a guy disassembling his iPod touch, but his method is pretty ridiculous; I couldn't reproduce it with my tools in their current state. Alas, it may be a couple weeks before I really get anywhere with the Touch.

 Don't worry so much though, I'm working on it.


----------



## joneeboi

Hello all,

 No advances on the Touch yet. New iPod opening tools are in the mail.

 What I did want to alert the crew to is this neat little board I found on the web. I don't know how long it's been around and how many of you already know about it, but I figure it'd be good even for experts for easy access to the iPod pins without too much trouble. I present, 

PodGizmo's PodBreakout V1.1





 Sadly, it doesn't seem like this board is in stock. I emailed the folks at Kineteka Systems - Home, so we'll see how things play out. These kinds of boards aren't new to us, even Ridax has one.






 It's perfect for the iPod user, newbie or not. It is a bit of a pricey item, so keep that in mind before you stock up on a couple thousand. It might be worth using in some sort of ultimate docking station for a secure connection every time. To save on shipping, it might be easier getting the Ridax one, but consider the PodGizmo one on your future iPod mods, if it ever becomes available. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I won't be adding it to the OP until/if they get back to me on its availability. Seems I'm behind the times by about two years.

 Cheerio.


----------



## barqy

I am wondering.


 I have a 4th gen Ipod.


 I de-soldered c84/86 and soldered 2 wires directly from c84/86 to L2 and L3 of the line out.

 Besides removing the resistors on L2 and L3 is there anything else I can remove to make the signal as clean as possible?


 Also, since I don't have a mini to mini, will the headphone jack still work for this method?


 thanks for your time and advice


----------



## joneeboi

Take out C65/C66 right where L2/L3 were. CAvanessia did it on her nano 1G, but I don't think anyone else has done it and reported it yet. And the headphone jack should still work if you send the signal straight to the dock, although I wonder if you want to still use the headphone jack. I recently made the switch from 22uF BGs to 47uF BGs through the dock, and the bass is monstrous through my MAX+SR60s. I tried playing it through my car's iPod FM transmitter, but the bass started to make the signal clip. Switching to my bro's nano 3G made the music sound normal. I didn't have this problem with the 22uFs. Shucks. I had to switch from 47 to 22 a while back, and then I couldn't stand the bass anymore. I can't believe the difference it made switching back yet again to 47. Greatest switch ever. You might want to diyMod the headphone jack signal if you are going to use it.


----------



## joneeboi

I thought some diyModders might appreciate some pictures of the compact flash adapter. The bank account isn't really allowing me to get the 16GB CF card just yet, so I had to make do with a 128MB card on a broken iPod (logic board is dead). >_>

 Aerial:










 Side View:










 Capacitor location:










 As you can see, getting a $5 adapter and $100 memory replacement lands you better sounding music longer and lighter with a better variety of capacitors. I didn't mention that I'm squishing my 47uFs into my diyMod 4G. They were squeezed a bit and don't look as pretty, but they still work. Consider getting a CF card for your diyMod.


----------



## joneeboi

It seems we have another addition to the diyMod family: the Microsoft Zune 1G! This bad boy implements the WM8978/WM8758, much like in the iPod 5G/5.5G. I can't actually confirm that this chip is actually the Wolfson except by the process of elimination. Keep in mind that the chip is hiding right underneath the screen. Anyways, happy diyModding.


----------



## trose49

I love the courage to DIY but to me it makes me appreciate what Vinnie and Ken have done to date with great skill.

 Either way you owe it to them for even bringing the idea to the mainstream.

 Not worth frying an ipod to me and my imod still works flawless and gets used every day.

 But good luck to anyone will to try it yourself!


----------



## joneeboi

No doubt, trose, no doubt. I've tried to always maintain that the iMod birthed the diyMod, so we are always grateful to Vinnie for showing us this awesome mod. Nevertheless, the diyMod is distinct in several ways: it's accessible, customizable, and it reaches more models. It does take quite a bit of skill to perform this mod, which is why non-DIYers or beginners should consider getting someone to do it for them, such as Vinnie or Ken. Nevertheless, DIY is always a great way to learn new skills and to save money. Vinnie and Ken are great guys and are a big part of this community. Nevertheless, I couldn't afford the iMod or RWA cables, and I was lucky enough to be able to figure it out myself. That said, we are grateful to Vinnie for making this mod as popular as it became.

 Yeah, we owe it to Vinnie. Nevertheless, I'm just glad I could save so much money and help others do the same.


----------



## iQEM

x2 with jon, here...


----------



## Lil' Knight

I've been following this thread for a long time.
 Very interesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm about to diyMod my iPod gen5.
 However, to make sure everything goes smooth, I've some questions to ask:
 + Firstly, I've to desolder the 2 Z caps, and then solder 2 wires to the pads under them. Right?
 + Now next the part I feel intriguing.
 According to Figure D.B, I've to remove the 2 caps right under the L2, L3.
 So what about C84 and C85? I can't understand clearly which to remove?
 I wonder if someone has clearer picture of this.
 And where I have to solder the L,R wires to. The pad with green arrows in Figure D.C?

 And about the capacitors.
 I intend not to use the BG NX Hi-Q.
 I'm thinking about the Mundorf MKT 47µF/250V caps.
 Can these caps replace the BG?
 Is there is limitation on the voltage of the caps?

 Thank you for your reading and help


----------



## joneeboi

Once you desolder the Z caps, L2/L3 and C84/C85, send the signal to the bottom pad of L2/L3. The green arrows in Figure D.C are backups. If neither works out, you can try soldering to the dock. C84/C85 are the red arrows in Figure D.C, but they're so tiny you may just want to leave them on the board.

 And those Mundorfs will work fine. As long as the voltage rating is above ~2VDC, then you're good.

 Hope everything goes well.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Once you desolder the Z caps, L2/L3 and C84/C85, send the signal to the bottom pad of L2/L3. The green arrows in Figure D.C are backups. If neither works out, you can try soldering to the dock. C84/C85 are the red arrows in Figure D.C, but they're so tiny you may just want to leave them on the board.

 And those Mundorfs will work fine. As long as the voltage rating is above ~2VDC, then you're good.

 Hope everything goes well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Jon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After reading back, I got the clue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those backup pics really make me confused 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 About the caps, is there any difference if I use 2 pairs of Soniccaps in parallel and 1 pair of them in series ?


----------



## joneeboi

You'd have to ask the people who have used Sonicaps about the sound difference. I suspect that the difference would be very minimal, if audibly detectable by your ears at all. I find very little difference between bypassed vs. unbypassed (one in series or two in parallel), but I did it anyway in my MAX because of the electrical purposes. This area is where the most subjectivity comes in. It all depends on your source material, amp, cables, connectors 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, headphones, and hearing ability. If you really can't decide, you could flip a coin or you might want to use some sort of Russian Roulette method of decision-making. You could try it out and let us know what you find. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In short, there is a difference, but it may go audibly undetected.


----------



## Lil' Knight

If I use 4.7µF / 200VDC GenI, the smaller caps must be the same 200VDC, in parallel ? Correct me if I'm wrong


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I use 4.7µF / 200VDC GenI, the smaller caps must be the same 200VDC, in parallel ? Correct me if I'm wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nope, the voltage doesn't matter since the output is only 1.5V so you can use any cap over 1.5V


----------



## joneeboi

Update on the Zune 2G's WM8350:

 I emailed the nice folks at Wolfson again about the WM8350, and their reply was that there is a non-disclosure agreement required before they send it out. That then means that I could get the datasheet and not tell anyone how to do it, or I could just get a Zune, open it up and poke around inside. I prefer the latter method because it doesn't compromise my integrity, so if anyone is interested in diyModding the Zune 2G, either poke around inside yourself or send it to me so I can figure it out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Holler.


----------



## DrizzitT

What gauge wires are people using for the hookup in the Ipods (specifically the Mini). I don't have much access to wire and don't really want to use generic EE project hook-up wire, so I was considering buying some.

 The first page recommends the e-bay shop or Digikey/Mouser, but one is 24 AWG and the other is 30 AWG. Thanks!


----------



## joneeboi

Most people have been using either 28AWG or 30 AWG wires, so it's really up to you and your wire stripper what you want to do. John's Wire Shop carries anything from 20AWG to 36AWG, so you can pick whatever works best if the stuff at Digikey/Mouser doesn't suit your fancy. I am using 26AWG in my 4G because it doesn't have such a tight fit.


----------



## FallenAngel

On the Mini, the wire runs SUCH a short distance that it really doesn't matter, use the smallest you can. I used 26AWG, and that's fairly thick for the mod, take the 30AWG.


----------



## DrizzitT

30 AWG it is. I figured 24 AWG was a bit much so just wanted to make sure. Thanks!


----------



## FS2

Has anyone thought about swapping the existing caps on the headphone out of the minis? Since I've heard the mini sound quality isn't that great, I wonder if that would help. Biggest problem I see would be finding a cap in the right (physical) size, and trying to figure out what the existing cap value is.


----------



## joneeboi

*raises hand*

 I've thought about it, because at first, I couldn't figure out which were the line out caps (but ruZZ.il helped us out with that). I figured we could just send the headphone jack signal to the dock and turn up the click wheel volume. Once that didn't pan out, ruZZ.il came and found us out line out signal caps. First, it's an issue of capacitance, which then returns to the physical size problem. You have to find the proper capacitance for your headphones so that the bass doesn't roll off so bad. [Please refer to our favourite C = (2*pi*R*f)^-1 equation.] Then when you find the right size capacitance to match your headphone's impedance, you have to somehow fit that huge thing into the mini. By no means is it impossible, because ishtob pulled it off in the nano.











 Somehow, one could pull it off in the mini, it just may not be as pretty. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And sadly, I sold my mini 2G to ruZZ.il, so brainstorming will be harder on this end. You could very well drill a couple holes in the back of the mini, but for some reason, people don't like that method as much.


----------



## FS2

Well, I'd want to keep everything internal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And knowing the existing cap value would help as I wouldn't want to replace them with a smaller value than what they already are. Beyond that, there's the question of the circuit that's rigged up in the mini. If it's taken from the datasheet, then I wonder what R should be in this case. I doubt they're using the recommended 220 uF though, as the 1st Gen mini I cracked open had a cap marked "100 4X". (Or at least I think those were the right caps.)

 Oh yes, about your first post, the 1st Gen mini I cracked open was using a WM8731L. I think it's only the 2nd Gen that uses the WM8711 (though the pinouts are almost the same... the 8711 seems functionally simpler). I should probably take another look to confirm mine was indeed a 1st Gen...


----------



## dumbears

Perhaps, I've missed this in the past. I wonder if the decoupling caps is recommended to be 220uF. The original ones are 100uF.

 Moreover, I wonder if the bass becomes more solid if swapping in 220uF. I know some actually swapped in a pair of BG NX 100uF caps.


----------



## joneeboi

The 220uF recommendation comes into play when headphones are connected directly to the DAC. I wonder what the amplification stage looks like between the DAC and the headphones, as Wolfson's papers all talk about hooking headphones straight into the DAC. Again, we refer to that corner frequency equation, and 22uF seems to work for my 4G with my Millett MAX. IIRC, the input impedance is something around 50K, so the corner frequency is pretty much obliterated at 0.144Hz. The surprising thing was how the 47uF BGs gave me so much more bass. If you want to work straight into the headphone jack, 220uF goes great with 32ohms, and the BG version sizes up at 8mm x 11mm. What were you thinking of doing?


----------



## no_eye_dear

I'm having a play with that sort of configuration at the moment. I wanted to use a remote for the volume into my amp so I'm taking the signal from the headphone out instead of the line-out and using one of those clip-on remote units for my 4G.
 The EQ will also give me some scope on DSP for my room/speakers... not much but it will be interesting to compare the line-out quality with the heaphone-out quality after all that internal DSP.
 Obviously the output caps can be as usual (no low impedance HPhones) but I may not have any at all with this solution 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .......dependant on matching the DC bias input of my DC coupled amp that is..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Should be interesting


----------



## ruZZ.il

I believe there is some space in the mini up around the headphone jack area to stuff 2x47uf 6.3v BG NX caps.. a little round about for the signal cable, but I doubt it'll effect anything.
 I should be getting some cf cards soon so I'll be able to play again.. when I get some time too.. hmpf.
 been a bit busy, but it should even out soon


----------



## dumbears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 220uF recommendation comes into play when headphones are connected directly to the DAC. I wonder what the amplification stage looks like between the DAC and the headphones, as Wolfson's papers all talk about hooking headphones straight into the DAC. Again, we refer to that corner frequency equation, and 22uF seems to work for my 4G with my Millett MAX. IIRC, the input impedance is something around 50K, so the corner frequency is pretty much obliterated at 0.144Hz. The surprising thing was how the 47uF BGs gave me so much more bass. If you want to work straight into the headphone jack, 220uF goes great with 32ohms, and the BG version sizes up at 8mm x 11mm. What were you thinking of doing?_

 

I was thinking of swapping out the 100uF decoupling caps in my iPod Photo 60G with 220uF. When I opened out the case, I think it may be possible to go for BG NX 220uF, though I heard sb commented it's already much improvement in using BG NX 100uF.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Is there any significant sonic difference between the 22uf and 47uf in gen5?
 Which one do RWA and ALO use in their iMod?
 And, has anyone tried bypass the 22uf with 0.1uf NX-hiQ?


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dumbears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking of swapping out the 100uF decoupling caps in my iPod Photo 60G with 220uF. When I opened out the case, I think it may be possible to go for BG NX 220uF, though I heard sb commented it's already much improvement in using BG NX 100uF._

 

I tried placing my 47uF caps like RWA did up near the HP jack, but they ended up getting crushed. Maybe if you have a 60GB back panel, it might be easier than in my 20GB. If you do, let us know how it goes, and take some pics along the way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any significant sonic difference between the 22uf and 47uf in gen5?
 Which one do RWA and ALO use in their iMod?
 And, has anyone tried bypass the 22uf with 0.1uf NX-hiQ?_

 

From the little I do understand about BGs, bypassing should only be with NXs that have 10% the capacitance of the original cap. Over in the Millett MAX thread, TomB reported that Sprague Vitamin Qs bypassed the BG NXs to good effect, and the Millett Hybrid MAX Boutique page (Can't Miss Build #1) will reflect that recommendation. I didn't hear much of a difference bypassing 22uF with my 1.0uF VitQs, but I did hear quite a bit of difference replacing the BGs with the Spragues. Nevertheless, the latter pair was far too large for practical use (for me anyway), as I prefer keeping the caps inside the iPod. This situation will have to change as I patiently wait for my iPod prying tools to come in so that I can diyMod my iPod touch. Then I will probably have to send the caps into the docking station. Maybe I didn't give the caps a good enough chance, but I don't foresee bypassing taking place in any of my diyMods soon.

 Where are you planning on fitting those bypass caps? Seems like it'd be quite a tight fit in the LOD.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... so that I can diyMod my iPod touch._

 

I would not recommend this to anyone!! Lol, Jon is a master though, so it's ok 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. This is risky business on such an expensive piece of hardware! I hope the best Jon!


----------



## joneeboi

Thanks for that vote of confidence, wgr. I won't let you down.


----------



## wgr73

cool!


----------



## DrizzitT

So I just did the DIYMod (caps are damn small...), and I haven't broken anything, but I do have a problem

 Apparently there is a DC offset of ~ 50 mV between each channel. One channel is offset by ~1 mV (probably ok), but my other channel is offset ~70 mV. Any ideas what could be the problem? This was measured already running through the dock w/ capacitors...


 Edit: Offset magically disappeared.... I can hear a slight imbalance in headphones, but DIMM is showing onle ~12 mV offset between channels... One channel is 10 mv above ground, other channel is 2 mv below..


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DrizzitT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I just did the DIYMod (caps are damn small...), and I haven't broken anything, but I do have a problem

 Apparently there is a DC offset of ~ 50 mV between each channel. One channel is offset by ~1 mV (probably ok), but my other channel is offset ~70 mV. Any ideas what could be the problem? This was measured already running through the dock w/ capacitors...


 Edit: Offset magically disappeared.... I can hear a slight imbalance in headphones, but DIMM is showing onle ~12 mV offset between channels... One channel is 10 mv above ground, other channel is 2 mv below.._

 

After a pair of caps, there should be absolutely no DC, that's the idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If it reads anything other than 0V, you've got something amiss.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Just opened my Video and taken a look.
 It's really tiny 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I've looked back and wonder if I have to remove these 2 caps:


----------



## FS2

That black wire seems to have an exposed core that's awfully close to a cap. Hope that's held down real well.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe there is some space in the mini up around the headphone jack area to stuff 2x47uf 6.3v BG NX caps.. a little round about for the signal cable, but I doubt it'll effect anything.
 I should be getting some cf cards soon so I'll be able to play again.. when I get some time too.. hmpf.
 been a bit busy, but it should even out soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I checked mine (while sticking in my 16 GB Adata card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and that's a really small space. If the existing caps are indeed 100 uF and I do a replacement, that wouldn't be an improvement, would it? On the other hand, if I add caps, without removing the existing ones... but the lack of space is then even more of a problem. Of course, the other option is to pull the same caps of a dead mini board and stack them in.

 On that note, I was listening to my 4th gen iPod and a 2nd gen mini (both stock audio path). I can't tell the difference between the two. Now either it's my choice in music, my PX100 headphones, or just me. But does anyone actually hear a difference between them?

 BTW, joneeboi, I checked the chips in the mini's I've seen and I can confirm that the 1st gen uses a WM8731 while the 2nd gen uses a WM8711. (You might want to update your first post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) But I don't think there's much difference between the two.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just opened my Video and taken a look.
 It's really tiny 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I've looked back and wonder if I have to remove these 2 caps:_

 

You could and should. Just make sure you don't nick anything else on the way out.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FS2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On that note, I was listening to my 4th gen iPod and a 2nd gen mini (both stock audio path). I can't tell the difference between the two. Now either it's my choice in music, my PX100 headphones, or just me. But does anyone actually hear a difference between them?_

 

It could be your equipment. The headphone out for my 3G and 4G were pretty similar, but amping them makes a pretty big difference. I can definitely hear a difference between the touch 1G and diyMod 4G. I'm amping with either Mini^3, PIMETA, or MAX on my tricked out SR60s. I wouldn't expect to hear much of a difference between HP jacks, but maybe you need to try my method of sound comparison. Listen to one setup for a long time, say a week or two, so that your mind unconsciously picks up on the nuances that you can't consciously notice. Once your mind gets settled in, make the switch and see if your ears "perk up" to take notice. Eventually, it becomes just a natural occurrence as you pick whichever player you like better and stick with it for a while. Some day you'll pick up the other player and give it a go, and your eyes will widen and fingers sweaten. Happened the first time I listened to the touch coming from the 4G and when coming from my previously owned ZVM to my dad's 5G or my touch 1G to my brother's nano 3G. Give it a shot, then hesitantly make your conclusion.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FS2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ BTW, joneeboi, I checked the chips in the mini's I've seen and I can confirm that the 1st gen uses a WM8731 while the 2nd gen uses a WM8711. (You might want to update your first post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) But I don't think there's much difference between the two._

 

Updated.


----------



## FS2

Thanks for that suggestion. I'll give it a try.


----------



## vikingboy

found this which is interesting, review of 21 different types of capicitor. 

http://www.vhaudio.com/21capacitorshootout.pdf

 Linked from VHaudio who sells very high qulaity DIY cable stuff cheaply. No connection over than happy customer in the past.


----------



## joneeboi

Thanks for that link, vikingboy. I remember skimming through that page some time ago because it was posted in the Millett MAX thread. I also remember some people (couldn't tell you who) cautioning readers about the reviewer's report on Jupiter beeswax capacitors being unreasonably critical and biased. For this kind of review, I'd prefer pointing out dsavitsk's Notes on Output Coupling Capacitors, as he is an active member here and at Headwize, contributing such projects as the Less-pressivo, the HPDAC (1, 2, 3), the Grado-RA-1-turned-Alien-DAC-slash-PIMETA, and many, many more; IOW, he knows his stuff. He links the VHaudio review, but I just want to remind the reader to keep dsavitsk in mind when researching capacitors.

 Thanks again, vikingboy. I'll add both links to the OP.


----------



## vikingboy

Nice to be able to contribute something back to the forum that has taught me so much. Even if that something is a link to someone elses work! 

 Ive got my 2nd gen mini modded with the 32GB Adata card, have a new shiny soldering oron and tips on order and will be doing the DIYmod and making some LOD cables next week. Ive got the obligatory BGs and will be experimenting with some bigger Vcap, Auricaps and Mundorfs. Really appreciate the dsavitski reference and look forward to drawing my own conclusions. 

 Ill be sure to post pics and reviews of the caps once run in too.



 fingers crossed I dont screw the mini doing the DIYmod.


----------



## joneeboi

That's what this thread is for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems that even though Apple got rid of the mini, it still remains a popular player. It was still flying off the shelves when Apple replaced it with the nano, so it's no surprise that people are still messing around with them. I have two non-head-fier friends with iPods in some of my Electrical classes and they both have their original minis. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems it also lends itself to diyModding quite easily with such a short signal path from the coupling cap to the dock. The caps are even placed such that they can be easily removed without toasting most nearby circuit elements. I'm taken aback by the mini's comeback into head-fidom since it was discovered quite a long time ago that they could take accept CF cards. (Enjoy the mini 2G, ruZZ.il. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Thanks for sharing, vikingboy. I eagerly await to add you to the "gallery."


----------



## vikingboy

Hey guys, I need to check something because Im not sure Im understanding right here and I dont want to shell out $$$ before getting my facts right.

 Some basics first to check my understanding of the theory and electronics math behind this subject.

 Replacing the caps in the IPOD with the diyMOD enables us to improve the quality of the audio ultimately going to our headphones. The ones on the curcuit board are small and "poor" quality thus degrading the sound quality more than larger ones.

 Mounting large caps outside of the case is possible before feeding the signal into our headphone amps. The Frankenstein IPOD thread over at http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/fr...d-here-254531/ shows some crazy large caps outside the case. What puzzles me is why use such large uF caps?

 If the headphone impedance is 10k ohms, I find that the -3db point (essentially the lowest frequency that will pass te cap) is as follows per uF of cap.

 EDIT: Using the formula =1/(2*PI()*AmpImp*(0.00001*DacOutCap))

 AmpImp(Ω) - DAC Output Capacitor (μF) - Lowest Frequency (Hz)
 100000.115.91549431
 100000.27.957747155
 100000.35.30516477
 100000.43.978873577
 100000.53.183098862
 100000.62.652582385
 100000.72.273642044
 100000.81.989436789
 100000.91.768388257
 1000011.591549431
 100001.11.446863119
 100001.21.326291192
 100001.31.224268793
 100001.41.136821022
 100001.51.061032954
 100001.60.994718394
 100001.70.936205548
 100001.80.884194128
 100001.90.837657595
 1000020.795774715
 100002.10.757880681
 100002.20.72343156
 100002.30.691978013
 100002.40.663145596
 100002.50.636619772
 100002.60.612134397
 100002.70.589462752
 100002.80.568410511
 100002.90.548810149
 1000030.530516477

 Using a 6.x uF cap seems like total overkill. 

 Assuming the frequency response of hearing is circa 20hz and the Shure earphones go down to 18Hz (taken fromthe shure site)

 Technical Specifications:

 * Speaker Type: Triple TruAcoustic MicroSpeakers
 * Sensitivity (1mW): 119 dB SPL/mW
 * Impedance (1kHz): 36
 * Frequency Range: 18Hz – 19kHz
 * Cable Length/with Extension: 18 in. / 45cm (54 in. / 136cm)

 Why not use a smaller, and cheaper cap, something like a 0.1uF would facilitate a -3db at 15hz.

 What Im curious about is do I totally misunderstand this and if not, what is the curve from 0db to the 03db point like, how steep is it, essentially meaning how large a cap do I have to use to ensure at my headphones lowest freq range Im within 0db range still.

 I hope those are sensible questions, if not....redicule away my friends!

 thanks in adv
 Ian - aka 'n00b'


----------



## joneeboi

I'll try to keep the insults to a minimum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Although a smaller capacitance will suffice frequency-wise, the higher value capacitors typically exhibit higher quality (see Tangent's article Input Capacitors for Headphone Amps). Verily, those smaller caps are bound to work and you're welcome to use them at your discretion. In EFN's case, it's more an issue of he wanted those caps than he needed them to achieve a certain FR. At that point, you're really splitting hairs, but some find that hairs need to be split to fully enjoy their audio. I've flipped between 47uF and 22uF and found the former to perform better in the bass region than the 22uF, but that's using my amp and my headphones; YMMV.

 To see the frequency rolloff graph and for more information, check out Wolfson's Paper on The Role of the Headphone Coupling Capacitor. I think it'll answer a lot of your questions.


----------



## vikingboy

Hi Joneeboi,

 Thank you very much for them links, they answer my questions perfectly. Its all so clear now.......

 Makes me wonder why there arent more hghi uF, low V caps available?

 I notice the lager value caps when rated at 300V+ are large enouh to be not exactly portable. 

 Does anyone make caps capable of 200+uF at approx 2v? The BG 47uF seems to be the closest-to-perfect little cap for our use.

 Thanks for keeping insults to a minimum BTW! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ian


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vikingboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I need to check something because Im not sure Im understanding right here and I dont want to shell out $$$ before getting my facts right.

 Some basics first to check my understanding of the theory and electronics math behind this subject.

 Replacing the caps in the IPOD with the diyMOD enables us to improve the quality of the audio ultimately going to our headphones. The ones on the curcuit board are small and "poor" quality thus degrading the sound quality more than larger ones.

 Mounting large caps outside of the case is possible before feeding the signal into our headphone amps. The Frankenstein IPOD thread over at http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/fr...d-here-254531/ shows some crazy large caps outside the case. What puzzles me is why use such large uF caps?

 If the headphone impedance is 10k ohms, I find that the -3db point (essentially the lowest frequency that will pass te cap) is as follows per uF of cap.

 EDIT: Using the formula =1/(2*PI()*AmpImp*(0.00001*DacOutCap))

 AmpImp(Ω) - DAC Output Capacitor (μF) - Lowest Frequency (Hz)
 100000.115.91549431
 100000.27.957747155
 100000.35.30516477
 100000.43.978873577
 100000.53.183098862
 100000.62.652582385
 100000.72.273642044
 100000.81.989436789
 100000.91.768388257
 1000011.591549431
 100001.11.446863119
 100001.21.326291192
 100001.31.224268793
 100001.41.136821022
 100001.51.061032954
 100001.60.994718394
 100001.70.936205548
 100001.80.884194128
 100001.90.837657595
 1000020.795774715
 100002.10.757880681
 100002.20.72343156
 100002.30.691978013
 100002.40.663145596
 100002.50.636619772
 100002.60.612134397
 100002.70.589462752
 100002.80.568410511
 100002.90.548810149
 1000030.530516477

 Using a 6.x uF cap seems like total overkill. 

 Assuming the frequency response of hearing is circa 20hz and the Shure earphones go down to 18Hz (taken fromthe shure site)

 Technical Specifications:

 * Speaker Type: Triple TruAcoustic MicroSpeakers
 * Sensitivity (1mW): 119 dB SPL/mW
 * Impedance (1kHz): 36
 * Frequency Range: 18Hz – 19kHz
 * Cable Length/with Extension: 18 in. / 45cm (54 in. / 136cm)

 Why not use a smaller, and cheaper cap, something like a 0.1uF would facilitate a -3db at 15hz.

 What Im curious about is do I totally misunderstand this and if not, what is the curve from 0db to the 03db point like, how steep is it, essentially meaning how large a cap do I have to use to ensure at my headphones lowest freq range Im within 0db range still.

 I hope those are sensible questions, if not....redicule away my friends!

 thanks in adv
 Ian - aka 'n00b'_

 

Actually, those numbers are a little off by 10x, 0.1uF cap with *100K* pot will have a -3db of 15.9Hz, with a 10K pot as in portable amps, you're looking at 159Hz!


----------



## vikingboy

I used the excel spreadhseet linked from this thread somewhere to calculate those values, is it wrong then!? 

 =1/(2*PI()*AmpImp*(0.00001*DacOutCap))

 EDIT: refering to this link Input Capacitors for Headphone Amps it would appear that Excel sheet I used is wrong! ***..... :grumpy:

 The link is on the first page of this thread....

_9.4.0 Black Gate Capacitors:

 Look for NX Hi-Q 6.3V 22uF or 47uF. The more capacitance, the smaller the value of the corner frequency and the bigger the packaging. 47uF is consensus.
 f = 1/(2*pi*C*R), where C is capacitance, and R is the input impedance of the amplifier
 Use jEriCOh's simple Excel corner frequency calculator for convenience <<<<<<<<<<<--------------------_


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vikingboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used the excel spreadhseet linked from this thread somewhere to calculate those values, is it wrong then!? 

 =1/(2*PI()*AmpImp*(0.00001*DacOutCap))

 EDIT: refering to this link Input Capacitors for Headphone Amps it would appear that Excel sheet I used is wrong! ***..... :grumpy:

 The link is on the first page of this thread....

9.4.0 Black Gate Capacitors:

 Look for NX Hi-Q 6.3V 22uF or 47uF. The more capacitance, the smaller the value of the corner frequency and the bigger the packaging. 47uF is consensus.
 f = 1/(2*pi*C*R), where C is capacitance, and R is the input impedance of the amplifier
 Use jEriCOh's simple Excel corner frequency calculator for convenience <<<<<<<<<<<--------------------_

 

Yep, it does appear to be wrong, easily fixed though, just add another 0 to the calculation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Basic things to remember:
 10K Pot : 4.7uF
 50K Pot : 1uF
 100K Pot : 0.47uF

 Those are "best case scenario" values, anything larger will have questionable yield.


----------



## gueri_fr

Hi!
 gueri_fr is back!
 I opened a broken ipod 5G to see inside before doing the mod on MY ipod. Ooops! I broken the lcd screen. I will need to pay more attention next time  Waouh! caps and inductors are very very small. Soldering & desoldering will not be easy!
 I think I will use an external jack connector instead of routing the wires from the DAC to the dock connector. So I just need to route the DAC signal out of the ipod (with a hole on the case off course). One question: Can I solder the wires without removing the two caps near the DAC ?

 gueri_fr


----------



## joneeboi

Certainement. N'oubliez pas de bien attacher vos cables.


----------



## gueri_fr

Merci pour tes conseils joneeboi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now, I have to buy blackgate caps and wires. To be continued...

 gueri_fr


----------



## joneeboi

If you're going to go with completely external caps, why not go for some different caps? If size isn't a factor, I don't think you need to stick with BGs. With the iPod 4G, the NX Hi-Q is almost the automatic choice for an internal mod because it balances SQ and size. In your case, the sky (and/or your wallet) is the limit.

 In other news, I've discovered yet another decent supplier of replacement iPod parts, iRepair.ca or iRepair.us. I can only really recommend their cheap front panels and back plates as the price on everything else is pretty jacked up. As always, my main recommendation for a wide selection of cheap and varying-quality parts is eBay, but for instance, the 3G back panel I was looking for some time ago only had one listing on eBay (which I did eventually buy) and was out of stock at iFixit: iPod, iBook, & PowerBook Parts and Accessories. Suppose you feel that you don't like the drilled hole in the back of your iPod but you can't reverse it. Try iRepair if eBay and the other listings on the OP don't work out.


----------



## DrizzitT

So, after finally having the time to attempt to trouble shoot the my Mini...

 I find that there is STILL a DC offset no matter what I do.

 From the LOD its 30 mV and after my amp (yes, I know running DC through my amp is BAD), its ~ 15 mV

 I'm pretty sure I'm doing this right (I get one channel sound, cleanish), but am just worried about the DC offset. Anyone have any idea what could be happening?

 DC Line out= 1.5 V
 Output Offset (after caps)= 30 mV

 I know the Caps are supposed to kill DC offset.... but for some reason they aren't. Not sure why. Since I'm assuming the output from the line out is clean, something wrong in the Dock?


----------



## joneeboi

Pics are always helpful. Try rolling different caps into the DC blocking position to see if you just have some bad caps. What kind are you using? Did you melt the caps during the soldering process? My best guess would be just to get a different set of caps. If anything, 15mV is tolerable for headphones, so you're still pretty safe using your amp.


----------



## DrizzitT

Bought the dock from Steven Kelby so I can't check the caps.






...

 Interesting thing is that the output from the amp is actually reading only 12 mV... Might just be discharging issue?

 Edit: Think it was discharging (was playing music to test if channels were correct). Seems like one is near dead on and the other is ~ 2 mV off (which was offset at the cap SMD pads). Looks good. :-D Thanks a lot guys!


----------



## joneeboi

Sounds good (I hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Glad to hear it. Enjoy your diyMod!


----------



## iQEM

dang, my left channel are loosen up...must fix the solder again, after along2 time not using it via line out...


----------



## vikingboy

poss silly question, but does the quality of the wire used to connect the DAC to the line out pins make any difference (re 2nd gen ipod mini if that matters).

 Ive used standard hookup cable but have some nice shiny silver in cotton which sounds great in the line out DOC so just wondering if worth opening the mini again.....


----------



## gueri_fr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you're going to go with completely external caps, why not go for some different caps? If size isn't a factor, I don't think you need to stick with BGs. With the iPod 4G, the NX Hi-Q is almost the automatic choice for an internal mod because it balances SQ and size. In your case, the sky (and/or your wallet) is the limit._

 

Hi joneeboi,
 yes, you're right. But I'm studying several ways to do the mod. The ultimate is BG caps inside the 5G ipod with internal jack. I need the BG caps to see if it is possible. Hard drive must be replaced by a CF. Be patient...

 gueri_fr


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vikingboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_poss silly question, but does the quality of the wire used to connect the DAC to the line out pins make any difference (re 2nd gen ipod mini if that matters).

 Ive used standard hookup cable but have some nice shiny silver in cotton which sounds great in the line out DOC so just wondering if worth opening the mini again....._

 

It's really up to you whether or not you want to use it. I could tell you that it makes a difference and someone could tell you otherwise. You could actually hear it or you could might be imagining it. That's all a polite way of saying that it makes so little difference that "hearing" cables and other rubbish like hearing silver solder, hearing dielectrics, hearing connector plugs is only in your head. Its only worth is to show off how much money you spent on such and such component because you apply only the highest standards to your rig and cannot suffer such measly, common parts as the peasants. Like Enzo Ferrari said, "Aerodynamics is for those who cannot build engines." Verily, to a point, a car's shape has some effect on its overall performance, but there is a point of diminishing returns where resources are better spent on other things. The not-so hidden message is that your money is more wisely invested on such components as amplifiers and headphones, power supplies and groceries, the investments whose effects are easily detectable.

 Now, seeing that you already have the wire in your possession, you could very well swap it in. I just won't guarantee it'll make a difference, let alone an improvement. I don't mean to ramble, but I felt that at least a little context ought to be laid. I didn't believe that swapping between 22uF and 47uF caps could make such a big difference, but I could easily show you the change had I the appropriate ABX switching apparatus. If someone can show me the difference that cables make, sign me up for the newsletter (provided the cables don't cost an arm and a leg). I am open to the idea, but remain evermore skeptical. Alas, I fear the flaming arrows may come, so I will desist.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gueri_fr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi joneeboi,
 yes, you're right. But I'm studying several ways to do the mod. The ultimate is BG caps inside the 5G ipod with internal jack. I need the BG caps to see if it is possible. Hard drive must be replaced by a CF. Be patient...

 gueri_fr_

 

Even if the CF card doesn't give you more room and such, one possibility is to swap in a bigger back panel, ie. if you have a 30GB iPod, get a 60/80GB back panel. I know the CF card adapter for my 4G allows for way more space, but I haven't gotten around to buying the card yet (and probably won't for some time). Although it's not entirely compatible with your iPod, check out my size comparison in a dead 4G.


----------



## gueri_fr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even if the CF card doesn't give you more room and such, one possibility is to swap in a bigger back panel, ie. if you have a 30GB iPod, get a 60/80GB back panel. I know the CF card adapter for my 4G allows for way more space, but I haven't gotten around to buying the card yet (and probably won't for some time). Although it's not entirely compatible with your iPod, check out my size comparison in a dead 4G._

 

Hi!

 I know but ipod 30gb with a 60/80gb back panel is not a challenge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I think (I hope) there is just enough room but the CF adapter need to be cut. I don't have all the items yet for the mod but I think it is not an impossible mission. To be continued...


----------



## Lil' Knight

I've just modded my Video gen5.
 However, there is a problem with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 After modding, I let it run out of battery to test and charged it via USB. It showed the charging icon for a while and suddenly blacked out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've tried pressing buttons but it still can't turn on again.

 Has anyone here experience that problem?


----------



## joneeboi

Did you make sure the click wheel was connected? Did you try resetting it? Click Menu+Select for a couple seconds and it should restart. It's common to have ribbon cables not be properly reinserted after opening up the iPod, so double check those connections. Also, did you happen to nick anything else while you were rummaging around in there? Some people have actually seared their ribbon cables from modding, so that could be your problem. A couple times, I also forgot to flip down those little black tabs that keep the ribbons in there. Another thing you could try is plugging the iPod into the wall with a FireWire wall adapter, like when you restore your iPod and they require you plug it into something other than USB power.

 You're going to have to give us a little more information for us to be helpful. If you can't find anything, come back with pictures and your test results. Good luck.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you make sure the click wheel was connected? Did you try resetting it? Click Menu+Select for a couple seconds and it should restart. It's common to have ribbon cables not be properly reinserted after opening up the iPod, so double check those connections. Also, did you happen to nick anything else while you were rummaging around in there? Some people have actually seared their ribbon cables from modding, so that could be your problem. A couple times, I also forgot to flip down those little black tabs that keep the ribbons in there. Another thing you could try is plugging the iPod into the wall with a FireWire wall adapter, like when you restore your iPod and they require you plug it into something other than USB power.

 You're going to have to give us a little more information for us to be helpful. If you can't find anything, come back with pictures and your test results. Good luck._

 

Yep, the clickwheel does work after I modded it. No problem with it.
 I've tried it with some film caps docks I've made and it works normally.
 After it ran out of battery, I connected to my laptop, it made my lap stuck and I had to restart. I also reset the iPod by pressing Menu+Select.

 After that I recharged via USB and it showed the battery charging icon. About 30 min later, it blacked out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still can't find out what happened.
 Maybe I'll try it with a wall adapter


----------



## iQEM

if you all remember, last months i had a change to test DIYmod nano vs. Gmod video with the same LOD to mini (ALO supercotton), and several days ago Ron.id, my pal, tested his DIYmod video head to head to original RWA iMod video with each interconnect...Ron using DIY lod to mini (with BGcaps inside) and iMod (RWA) using ALO Vcap dock + ALO supercotton interconnect to one same decent headamp (DIY)...the result ? the DIYmod are more bright than RWA iMod, the SQ are about the same...so, it just a different character, base on different material/part that we used to bypass from DAC to line out...and not to forget, they using different caps and cables too...

 too bad mine are not ready to tested as well that day, well i guess that's why RWA are stand for...guarantee that no such thing like happen to me right now, more quality control, durability, and so on... lol


----------



## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* 
_several days ago Ron.id, my pal, tested his DIYmod video head to head to original RWA iMod video with each interconnect..._

 

Just to make it clear...

 I compare my DIYmod iPod 5.5G 30GB with iMod 80GB. All use the same equipments (DIY iPod LOD, LISA III headamp, SR125). Both use exactly the same song, mine is 320kbps AAC, but not sure what format on the iMod (could be lossless AAC).

 And the sound? DIYmod is brighter compared to iMod. Sound quality is about the same. And one more thing... my DIYmod is a bit louder than iMod (different file format, maybe?).

 As for the Line-Out Dock connector, my DIY LOD with BG NX Hi-Q 22uF caps made different sound compared to ALO V-Cap Dock. V-Cap sounded better, more refined, etc...


----------



## iQEM

aha, thx to make it more clear to us here Ron...

 *it's feel funny, we ought to say in our language but post about it here on english...lol oh well...time to fix my lod (atlast, buying an proper lod from Qables) to mini...


----------



## wgr73

This thread is falling back to page two!!! wow! I feel that this most definitely needs to be a sticky. There is a massive amount of information here!!


----------



## iQEM

x2, agree with wgr73...


----------



## AGC

Ah man. I really dont want to read all 111 pages of this thread. I really want to look into this though. 

 So its definatly proved that the DIY 5th gen iPod video sounds better than an iPod Classic?

 To mod the 5th gen video, there are only 4 steps listed. Is that all it takes? Any videos come out yet of someone modding the 5th generation? That would be great if there way. Would be a great addition to this thread.


----------



## joneeboi

Most of the information is packed onto the first post, so you would probably be better off looking there than through everything else. As for the SQ comparison between the diyMod 5G and the 6G, I can't think of when anyone compared them. They may be out there, but nothing comes to mind immediately. I could obtain a classic and compare them, but I have other things I need to finance before I could seriously consider doing so. In general, switching anything up in your rig requires some sort of risk and uncertainty, so even if there were an overwhelming number of diyMod rave reviews, you still couldn't guarantee that you'd like it. If you don't believe me, count the number of iMod reviews and then find the number of threads with titles to the effect of, "Should I get an iMod?" Just listen and see for yourself. The diyMod is simply a lower cost and higher risk method of seeing if the iMod is a worthwhile risk.

 The video idea is a good one, and something I haven't considered. The main reason is that I don't have a camcorder on me, but I do have a friend from which I could borrow one. Regardless, if you're capable of performing the mod, you already know that you are. If you have any doubt, you probably shouldn't be doing the mod. Crazier things have happened, but you should probably stick to the numbers on this one, especially with such an expensive toy as an iPod. Your best shot is to solicite any of the nicer modders in this thread and see if they're willing to do it. I don't know that it follows head-fi rules, but I don't see any other way of doing it besides doing it yourself. We are in a DIY forum, after all.

 Good luck, whatever route you take.


----------



## Caution

Does anyone know where I can get a couple of these Black gate 22uf 6.3v NX HiQ caps from Australia? or alternatively does anyone have 2 spares that they want to sell?


----------



## Gautama

Has anyone successfully modded the Zune 1G (See: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/app...ml#post3991341)
 How'd it go, and where did you mount the caps?


----------



## joneeboi

*sigh*

 I've come to announce that I cannot open up the iPod touch. It's been a mystery to me ever since I got it as to how anyone could ever open it. iRepair.ca did it and put it on YouTube, but I can't figure out how they make it look so easy. I have a number of iPod pry tools, and none of them seem to be making any headway. There's a machine shop at work that I can consult regarding slipping open this iPod, so I will keep scratching my head about it. But for the time being and with my current list of tools, I can't get it open. For now, we won't be enjoying the sweet sounds of any diyMod touches. It looks like I'm going to have to stick to my diyMod 4G for sonic splendor until someone or something changes the situation with the touch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Carry on.


----------



## wgr73

That sucks Jon. I hope that best for that mod!!


----------



## Gautama

wgr, have you tried to diymod your zune?


----------



## blippster

Thanks for the guide. Works great!


----------



## earthflyer

looks kind of difficult to mod the ipod video. The surface mount cap seem hard to remove with proper equipment. Kind of scared to try the imod.


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *earthflyer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_looks kind of difficult to mod the ipod video. The surface mount cap seem hard to remove with proper equipment. Kind of scared to try the imod._

 

All of the caps in all iPods are surface mounted and are _TINY_. It's not "hard", just switch sides back and forth with the soldering iron and it'll pop off (just don't push). Of course, if you're not comfortable with it, don't start! It sucks breaking expensive toys.


----------



## blippster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *earthflyer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_looks kind of difficult to mod the ipod video. The surface mount cap seem hard to remove with proper equipment. Kind of scared to try the imod._

 

You could try getting a broken iPod or similar device with SMD components (I used an IM716 pod) to practice on before attempting the real thing. Of course, the iPod parts are probably smaller than what you'll find elsewhere, but the techniques are the same.

 Take it slow, take it easy.


----------



## joneeboi

You're welcome, blippster. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 earthflyer,

 If it makes things easier, you could solder the wire straight to the Z cap and not use the dock at all. Throw the wires through a hole in the back panel, wire up some caps and an output plug for the amp. That way you minimize the risk of ruining the iPod, though that's always a risk when having the case opened.

 And of course, we're all here for you.


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gautama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wgr, have you tried to diymod your zune?_

 

I haven't yet...I want to soon. I have the bestbuy warranty, so I'm debating on whether or not to mess it up. I may decide to take it for a warranty replacement and get something else (tell them its 'giving me trouble'). I like new toys. We'll see.


----------



## iQEM

hi all...

 just stopping by to see this thread, til' now haven't fix my LOD yet, since a haven't got my own headamp to use the LOD... lol


----------



## patton713MW

I've read through about a quarter of this thread, trying to glean as much as possible, and I'm left with one question. Is it worth modding the 3rd Gen iPod? I know that the Wolfson DAC in the 3rd Gen isn't as good as the DACs of the 4G and 5G/5.5G. Considering that I have a 3G (30gig), is there a noticable difference between unmodded 3G lineout, and modded 3G? Thanks for your thoughs.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *patton713MW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read through about a quarter of this thread, trying to glean as much as possible, and I'm left with one question. Is it worth modding the 3rd Gen iPod? I know that the Wolfson DAC in the 3rd Gen isn't as good as the DACs of the 4G and 5G/5.5G. Considering that I have a 3G (30gig), is there a noticable difference between unmodded 3G lineout, and modded 3G? Thanks for your thoughs._

 

I can't say from experience, but if you've built a millet MAX, it shouldn't be that tough a mod for you right? Try it and let us know if you hear a difference


----------



## patton713MW

Quote:


 I can't say from experience, but if you've built a millet MAX, it shouldn't be that tough a mod for you right? Try it and let us know if you hear a difference 
 

The Millett MAX will be coming soon, it's still in the planning process right now. After I get the Millett up and running, I might look into a little DIYmod action. Just want to know if it's worth it.


----------



## joneeboi

Unless you have a 3G and either the 4G or 5G, I don't think you need to worry whether or not the sound is better in the 3G compared to the other two. The better question (which you did ask) is whether unmodded 3G is better than modded 3G, and to that, I'd have to go with modded. Sadly, this conclusion isn't based on experience but rather from transference. Going from small, "low quality" caps to larger, "high quality" caps seems to work well with the other diyMods, so why not with this one? I've AB-ed between 22uF and 47uF in my 4G, and by far I prefer the latter. I've tried it with 1.0uF VitQs and 220uF Nichicon PWs, and the setup I prefer the most is the 47uF BGs for their balance of convenience and sound quality. I am working on a 3G right now, so I can give you quick impressions. Really, there isn't any guarantee that you'll like the diyMod over the stock version, but at least you'll have a chance to roll different caps to suit your style. You only have to go as far as the first page to see all the different kinds of setups we have in the way of diyMods.

 Hope that answers your question. Don't hesitate to prod any further.


----------



## AGC

hey guys. I have been looking into this diyMod recently. I saw that RWA does this and the headphone out is not messed with. Therefore you can still access the same bad quality sound via the headphone jack. 

 With the DIY mod can you still access the headphone jack or is it unuseable?


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AGC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys. I have been looking into this diyMod recently. I saw that RWA does this and the headphone out is not messed with. Therefore you can still access the same bad quality sound via the headphone jack. 

 With the DIY mod can you still access the headphone jack or is it unuseable?_

 

The 5G iPod uses the Wolfson DAC "line out" for line level signals and "headphone out" for headphone signal so by doing the mod on the line out, there is no change to the headphone functionality. Kind of makes you wonder why there is so much crap in the output stage if they're simply using the WM chip for it


----------



## AGC

aha.. thats rediculous. 

 So does it matter what wire you use to connect the pads in the 5g ipod mod? I have 26 awg wire that I think will work. Dont have 30 awg... but it is from a cat3 cable.


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AGC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_aha.. thats rediculous. 

 So does it matter what wire you use to connect the pads in the 5g ipod mod? I have 26 awg wire that I think will work. Dont have 30 awg... but it is from a cat3 cable._

 

Whatever fits, feel free to go as "audiophile" as you wish. I used 26awg gold plated copper in Teflon and it was a very tight fit.


----------



## electronicmaji

Will there ever be a DIYmod for the classic?


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electronicmaji* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will there ever be a DIYmod for the classic?_

 

Why wouldn't there be one? Whoever has a "Classic", open her up, trace the signal and do the mod. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, and make sure to post pics.


----------



## joneeboi

AGC:

 The diyMod allows you to choose whichever configuration fits your needs. If you want to use the headphone signal through the dock, if you want to use the line out signal through the headphone jack, if you want to use a cleaner line out signal through the dock, it's all up to however you want to wire things. The short answer to your question, then, is that the headphone jack can be used if you want it to be.

 electronicmaji:

 What FallenAngel said. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've had people offer me their classics for the purpose of this thread, but no one has actually sent me anything yet. I think it would be pretty straightforward figuring out how things work using the resources of the internet (which is how I figured out the diyMod for the 4G in the first place), so it's only a matter of someone doing the grunt work. This thread makes things way simpler in terms of exploring other iPods, such as the 1G, 2G, 6G, and nano 2G, so when anyone is willing and willing to share...


----------



## patton713MW

Back again. The documentation of the 3G mod provided in the beginning with further clarification later in the thread shows the use of resistors to ground. However, mention is also made that these are not necessary. If I mod my 3G, I want to leave the headphone out untouched, and install the Blackgates inside, routed to the line out of the dock. The lineout will only get use hooked up to an amplifier. Do I need those resistors, or can I just go DAC ==> BlackGates ==> Dock?

 Also, I just popped my iPod open (didn't have the tools, but a combination of thumbnails plus credit card did the job without any damage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and noticed that over the board there is some black tape covering the upper area near the headphone plug and hold switch. Does this serve any real purpose? Can I just take it out?


----------



## joneeboi

You don't need the resistors. They're only useful for low impedance loads, so the high input impedance of most of the amps I've seen around here remove the need for the resistors. DAC -> BGs -> Dock works great.

 The black tape serves to keep certain components in place, but I found that I was messing around inside the iPods that I removed them instead of constantly removing and replacing them. Unless I'm missing something, I don't think they're completely necessary.


----------



## patton713MW

Thanks for the input!

 In case you are interested, I took some macro shots of important spots while my iPod was open that I can post here. Also, I was able to trace the paths from DAC to Dock, and pinned down the 100k Ohm resistor to ground, the 100 Ohm resistor in series, and exactly the point that goes to the dock connector. I need to upload and label them, is there any interest?


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *patton713MW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the input!

 In case you are interested, I took some macro shots of important spots while my iPod was open that I can post here. Also, I was able to trace the paths from DAC to Dock, and pinned down the 100k Ohm resistor to ground, the 100 Ohm resistor in series, and exactly the point that goes to the dock connector. I need to upload and label them, is there any interest?_

 

Please post them. I don't have a 3G myself, but there are often people who read these threads/forums but never post. I'm sure there is someone with a 3G iPod that would appreciate you taking the time to upload your macro shots.

 Heck, the geek in me just wants to see them


----------



## gueri_fr

Hi everybody.

 My imod is finished. Does it work? I don't really know because I'm waiting a dock cable to connect to my Xenos headamp. The ipod runs and I still can hear the music with the headphone jack so there is no damage inside.

 The story.
 At first, I wanted to use a compact flash! Why? Just for fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Later, I discovered this very intersting thread and I wanted to do this mod. It was the opportunity to take the advantage of the CF size and use the space for the BG caps. Yes, my goal was to put the caps inside the ipod in order to have a truly portable player : no need for special cable! I bought a broken ipod and I wasted a lot of time to test the imod : opening the ipod in a safe way, desoldering components, soldering 30awg cable, etc. I used a hand lens to control the desoldering and soldering operations. 
 After many hours of a hard work, I decided to do the mod on my ipod. As you will see on the pictures, I used a little hole on the motherboard for the two wires from the DAC. To do this, I removed some plastic thickness of the ipod case. The caps are soldered on the other side near the CF adaptor. Of course, now the path from the DAC to the DAC is longer. I hope it will not be a problem. Wait and see.

 gueri_fr

Attachment 5055

Attachment 5057

Attachment 5059

Attachment 5061

Attachment 5063


----------



## patton713MW

Looks very clean! Is that a 5G?


----------



## FallenAngel

gueri_fr: Nice diyMod on the 5G. You can test if it works by checking that voltage from pins 3 and 4 to ground is 1.5V. If it is, it works


----------



## patton713MW

As requested:






 A - From Pin 17 (ROUT) on the WM8731
 B - From Pin 16 (LOUT) on the WM8731

 C - To Pin 3 on Dock connector (Right Line Out)
 D - To Pin 4 on Dock connector (Left Line Out)

 E - Ground

 F - R74 = 100k Ohm resistor
 G - R76 = 100 Ohm resistor
 H - R73 = 100k Ohm resistor
 G - R75 = 100 Ohm resistor

 So, if you follow the traces highlighted in yellow, you will see that the path is:

  Code:


```
[left]DAC (pin 17) --- C16 --- R74 --- Ground `-- R76 --- Dock (Pin 3) DAC (pin 16) --- C13 --- R73 --- Ground `-- R75 --- Dock (Pin 4)[/left]
```

Hope this helps fellow 3G owners!


----------



## joneeboi

gueri_fr:

 It's great to see you finally finishing your diyMod! I will add the very interesting photos when I get home from work. You have crystallized what I theorized with the CF adapter, and for that, I thank you for your dedication to this thread. Thank you for sharing the mod, and I'm sure many others, quiet as they are, are grateful for your work. Cheers!

 patton713MW:

 I know I would appreciate you sharing your photos. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm always looking for better photos with which to update the front page, so anything helps. I've found that the line out signals usually just have the CRL filter between the DAC and the dock, so it'll be interesting to see how it works in this version. Please feel free to share away.


----------



## patton713MW

Two more high-res images:

Near the dock connector
Wolfson DAC


----------



## gueri_fr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *patton713MW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks very clean! Is that a 5G?_

 

yes patton713MW, it's a 5.5G with Rockbox.

 Hi joneeboi,
 I thank you too for your work to this thread. It's a mine of information!


----------



## joneeboi

It's cause of hard-working guys like you that somehow keep this old thread alive. So far, it's sitting at third most replies and fourth most views of non-stickied threads. Let's keep the magic alive.


----------



## patton713MW

Joneeboi - Did that picture I posted with the closeup of the caps and resistors help? When I start working on my Millett MAX (hopefully in a few weeks) I will buy the parts to mod my 3G at the same time, and I'll post some pictures of the mod process.


----------



## joneeboi

Your photos, as with all photos, is greatly appreciated. With the 25 photo per thread limit, I'm reminded why I somewhat started on a website for this stuff. Wow, I need to start on that.

 Keep us posted on the mod. What parts do you need to buy for your diyMod that you can plop together in an order for your MAX? All I'm envisioning is a pair of caps and some wire, unless you're buying a new soldering station or some premium items from parts conneXion.


----------



## patton713MW

Exactly, the caps and wire.

 About the soldering station: I'm just using 40w and 15w RadioShack irons right now, and I can still do decent work with them. However, I know the value of decent irons (used a weller at work), and I am toying with the idea of getting a decent soldering station. Any recommendations? Think any headfi-er will do a used sale? Or am I better off buying a new one?

 edit- Oh, I'd also like to pick up a dock connector and 3.5mm connector to make a LOD... Need interconnect wire too... Dang, I need to study up on the DIY cable thread.


----------



## joneeboi

I am picking up a new soldering station soon (likely a Hakko 936), so I'm a little biased.


----------



## Hayduke

I bought this:
Weller WESD51 and WESD51PU Digital Soldering Station, Power Unit, Soldering Pencil, Stand, and Sponge - Test Equipment Depot
 best deal around IMHO


----------



## patton713MW

Researching the Hakko 936... quite tempting... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit - Out of these tips (medium size), which two additional tips would you recommend to cover everywhere from regular work to very fine work? Remember that it comes with the 900M-T-1.6D tip already.


----------



## no_eye_dear

Hi Guy's need some input if you could chaps
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have a 5.5G logicboard that was behaving a bit wierd and on closer inspection the last three pins on the dock have been mashed.
 They are the Firewire grounds and data pins....
 The USB connection doesn't seem to work properly so I'm wondering if the FW pins are needed in some way even though the 5.5's dont use FW?
 I could get it working by replacing the pins... fiddly but doable
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I'm not going to bother if the pins are truly unnecessary.
 Any thoughts guys?


----------



## gueri_fr

Personally, I use a standard soldering station bought in my usual electronic reseller. Searching on the web, it's a china model Zhongdi Manufacture Co.,Ltd.. But it's good for me, I used it from time to time. The Hakko 936 looks very nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *no_eye_dear* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ The USB connection doesn't seem to work properly so I'm wondering if the FW pins are needed in some way even though the 5.5's dont use FW?_

 

Hi no_eye_dear,
 I think the 5.5G can only use the firewire pins to charge the battery.

 gueri_fr


----------



## pkjames

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *patton713MW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Researching the Hakko 936... quite tempting... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit - Out of these tips (medium size), which two additional tips would you recommend to cover everywhere from regular work to very fine work? Remember that it comes with the 900M-T-1.6D tip already._

 

I personally own a Hakko 936, best investment ever


----------



## patton713MW

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *no_eye_dear* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could get it working by replacing the pins... fiddly but doable
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I'm not going to bother if the pins are truly unnecessary.
 Any thoughts guys?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is from the iPod wiki entry on wikipedia:
  Quote:


 As of the first generation iPod nano and the fifth generation iPod classic, Apple discontinued using FireWire for data transfer and made a full transition to USB 2.0 in an attempt to reduce cost and form factor. With these changes, FireWire could only be used for recharging. 
 

Sounds like you don't need them. Good luck getting it to work again!


----------



## tigerkai

Hi guys after reading the review of 21 different types of capacitors.i'm interested to diy a dock for my RWA 5.5 Gen iMod using Audio Note/silver or TFTF Vcap.i had actually diy a mundorf silver/oil 4.7uf cap dock before and really enjoyed it very much. Anyone advise me which value to use as i'm a technical idiot! Will 0.1uf be similar sounding towards my present Mcap 4.7uf?


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


 Will 0.1uf be similar sounding towards my present Mcap 4.7uf? 
 

Before I give you the values you want, I'll offer two contextual responses. First, you ought to always listen for yourself what value you want in your diyMod. That's the final test and greatest advantage of DIY; people can say what they want about brands, values, bypassing, whatever, but only you hear what you hear. Second and less interestingly, it depends on what is being paired with what. If it's an amp, if it's a set of headphones, this choice has an adverse effect on the size of your capacitor (say, 4.7uF vs. 470uF). If it's a 3G with such and such an amp, if it's a nano 1G with this or that brand of cap, things change. Ultimately, there's no guarantee that what anyone says here will be your experience, so you're going to have to find out for yourself. What everyone here likes may not be what you like. That having been said, people have used values from 0.1uF to 47uF for headphone amps. I have stated over and again that I love the BG NX Hi-Q 47uF 6.3V capacitor for my diyMod 4G and PIMETA with AD8620/AD8610 set at gain ~4 on my rescreened Grado SR60s with glue-modded Jumbo pads, Canare Starquad recable, and Dynamat driver mod with files encoded as 320kbps MP3 played through the original Apple firmware. You need to have a holistic view of your music, and again, what works for your ear may not work with mine.

 Short answer is "maybe."


----------



## tigerkai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Before I give you the values you want, I'll offer two contextual responses. First, you ought to always listen for yourself what value you want in your diyMod. That's the final test and greatest advantage of DIY; people can say what they want about brands, values, bypassing, whatever, but only you hear what you hear. Second and less interestingly, it depends on what is being paired with what. If it's an amp, if it's a set of headphones, this choice has an adverse effect on the size of your capacitor (say, 4.7uF vs. 470uF). If it's a 3G with such and such an amp, if it's a nano 1G with this or that brand of cap, things change. Ultimately, there's no guarantee that what anyone says here will be your experience, so you're going to have to find out for yourself. What everyone here likes may not be what you like. That having been said, people have used values from 0.1uF to 47uF for headphone amps. I have stated over and again that I love the BG NX Hi-Q 47uF 6.3V capacitor for my diyMod 4G and PIMETA with AD8620/AD8610 set at gain ~4 on my rescreened Grado SR60s with glue-modded Jumbo pads, Canare Starquad recable, and Dynamat driver mod with files encoded as 320kbps MP3 played through the original Apple firmware. You need to have a holistic view of your music, and again, what works for your ear may not work with mine.

 Short answer is "maybe."_

 

Thks for your info and explanation!so it all trial and error.btw how or what do the different values affect the sound?


----------



## darkfury18

How much worse is the headphone out compared to line out on the Wolfson's chips?

 I want to use the ipod to control the volume and not bother with adjusting the volume on the amp, but how much SQ will I be sacrificing if I do that?


----------



## joneeboi

The only difference is a digital volume control, but I don't know if you'll be able to tell the sound difference between the two. See the datasheet block diagram (page 1) for more details.


----------



## darkfury18

I have a 3G so it's the 8731, it seems like the HP out is an additional stage after the line out. It seems like it doesn't make that big of a difference on the 8971 since it's the same output, but what about the 8731?

 Line out






 HP out


----------



## pkjames

I just wonder, if I take out the L2 and L3 next to the dock (4G Photo), should I take out the capacitor next to it as well?


----------



## joneeboi

darkfury18:

 Apologies, I didn't know you were referring to the iPod 3G. I can't speak of low- or high-quality sound coming from either one, but the datasheet states that the headphone outputs are optimized for a 16 Ohm to 32 Ohm load. This detail means that if one is hooking up a headphone amp with, say, 10 kOhm input impedance, I don't believe the DAC would be performing at its best. It looks like it's a simple inverting amplifier that we're looking at, but again, the datasheet specifies 16 Ohms to 32 Ohms for the headphone outputs. Stick with the line out.

 pkjames:

 Absolutely, as long as you don't irrevocably destroy anything along the way.


----------



## darkfury18

Thanks, joneeboi. Guess I'll stick with the line out then.


----------



## pkjames

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_darkfury18:


 Absolutely, as long as you don't irrevocably destroy anything along the way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the clarification joneeboi. I think it is actually kinda hard to "not to destroy"anything, but just have to make sure it is recoverable is the key


----------



## barqy

Hi,

 I modded my 4th gen ipod a while back.

 But for some reason the battery won't hold charge anymore.


 I charge it overnight, in the morning it says fully charge, I disconnect the AC adapter and leave the ipod alone for about 8 hrs and when I come back it gives me the dead battery sign (battery with a question mark) and turns off.


 I changed the battery to a new one (tried 3 different batteries actually), but still same problem. Then I finally changed the logic board out.

 I thought maybe the logic board was messed up because I plugged in the AC adapter to the ipod for about a week straight to burn in the new caps. So maybe I overloaded the charging circuit somehow.


 Still the same problem.



 Any ideas/tips?

 I have no idea why it's draining the battery like that. I'm pretty sure when I initially completed the mod, this problem did not arise.


 I didn't change/alter anything to the mod, took out old caps c84/86, and grounded from the headphone jack to 1 of 2 of these big pads near the dock side (maybe that's why??)

 Can put up pix later.

 Thanks in advance


----------



## Lil' Knight

Same with me on the Gen5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's able turn on when plugging the charger, but when put out, it turns off


----------



## barqy

^ you try changing the battery?

 I'm not sure why it would do this, the other reason i can think of (for my 4th gen) is maybe when I made a ground wire (from head phone jack), it's someone discharging the battery :\


 but uh, i really dont know otherwise.


----------



## joneeboi

Pics are always helpful. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 barqy:

 Are you accessing the DAC through the dock or through the headphone jack? I don't understand why you needed to ground anything unless you used some kind of external jack like I did on my first mod. Whether you go through the headphone jack or the dock, you never need to add your own ground wire. That could be the source of the problem.

 edit: You might want to disconnect the wires and see if the voltages between the ground wires are indeed the same. If they aren't, there probably is current flowing from one to the other that is causing the battery to run out of power.

 Lil' Knight:

 I think we're going to need a bit more clarification to be of any use.


----------



## barqy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edit: You might want to disconnect the wires and see if the voltages between the ground wires are indeed the same. If they aren't, there probably is current flowing from one to the other that is causing the battery to run out of power._

 


 I connected to headphone out~

 I added the ground b/c i was advised to do so by another head-fier heh


 You mean disconnect the ground wire from the board and test the ptn on the logic board I used as the ground for voltage? 

 I'd do this with the ipod off correct?


----------



## joneeboi

That's part of what I'm saying. The other part of the message was that you should remove the wire. It's unnecessary.


----------



## joneeboi

I am pleased to announce that I just joined the iPhone club. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's been really annoying having to carry an iPod touch and my Palm Treo 680 around in the same pocket, but now no more! I am currently transferring music and some awesome ringtones to my new baby, so huzzah for me. And as you probably all have guessed, I will be figuring a my way into the iPhone for a possible diyModPhone (any better nomenclature suggestions?). Don't hold your breath, as you all may have noticed that my work travels at a snail's pace.

 As such, anyone interested in an iPod touch? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: Also, to get things rolling, I just connected my iPhone to my PIMETA, which didn't actually work at first. Then I remembered this thread which concluded that pin 11 (serial GND) had to be connected to any of the GNDs in the dock (pins 1/2, 15/16, 29/30) and there has to be a 1K resistor between 11 and 21. I connected my pin 11 to pin 15 because it was easiest. Just FYI.

 edit2: Okay, the 1K resistor between 21 and GND doesn't seem to affect anything. Oh well. 11 to GND is the required modification to get iPhone's line out signal.


----------



## barqy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's part of what I'm saying. The other part of the message was that you should remove the wire. It's unnecessary._

 

OK, so basically I turned off the ipod, connected the battery and checked the voltage on the ground ptn with the wire attached, it read: 3.99V (It says it's rated 3.7V on the battery).

 So i disconnected the wire and checked the voltage again (with the ipod stilff off), still 3.99V.


 Here's a pic of the wire:






 I did the same for this newer 4th gen I bought, and the same thing occured.


 Not sure which other ptns to check for?


 thanks


----------



## joneeboi

I re-repeat: you don't need that wire. Try disconnecting it and then tell us your results.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am pleased to announce that I just joined the iPhone club. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's been really annoying having to carry an iPod touch and my Palm Treo 680 around in the same pocket, but now no more! I am currently transferring music and some awesome ringtones to my new baby, so huzzah for me. And as you probably all have guessed, I will be figuring a my way into the iPhone for a possible diyModPhone (any better nomenclature suggestions?). Don't hold your breath, as you all may have noticed that my work travels at a snail's pace.

 As such, anyone interested in an iPod touch? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: Also, to get things rolling, I just connected my iPhone to my PIMETA, which didn't actually work at first. Then I remembered this thread which concluded that pin 11 (serial GND) had to be connected to any of the GNDs in the dock (pins 1/2, 15/16, 29/30) and there has to be a 1K resistor between 11 and 21. I connected my pin 11 to pin 15 because it was easiest. Just FYI.

 edit2: Okay, the 1K resistor between 21 and GND doesn't seem to affect anything. Oh well. 11 to GND is the required modification to get iPhone's line out signal._

 

Grats man!

 Did you get a nice deal since the new one is announced?


----------



## barqy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I re-repeat: you don't need that wire. Try disconnecting it and then tell us your results._

 

hi,

 i did cut the wire, so basically it was connected to nothing and still same results.


----------



## joneeboi

I have to wonder now what kind of firmware you are using. Rockbox is notorious for bad battery life, perhaps that's what's causing the bad battery life. I don't think that my Rockbox ever had such low battery life and I know that there was some concerted efforts in increasing battery life for some iPod Rockbox versions, so maybe it isn't what is causing your problem.

 Thinking a while back, I replaced my stock 4G's battery with a 1200mAh battery from eBay and I only got about 8 hours battery life with it too, though I was actually listening to it for those 8 hours. Mind you, I was listening to classical music as WAV files with Rockbox, so the hard drive was spinning like mad the whole time. I don't think this problem completely resembles yours, but I'll offer it anyways.

 Or perhaps there is a less technical answer and one of the simple mistakes that are easily made. I recently had a diyMod 3G "die" on me because the hard drive connector wasn't functioning properly. I replaced it and got it to work despite the headache I went through researching the problem online. Check your connections, as there may be a clue hiding in a faulty connector. Better yet, run the tests in the iPod's diagnostic mode. Search here: iPod Diagnostic Mode. That's how I found out that the 3G's hard drive wasn't communicating as it was supposed to.

 Those are my current ideas. Give them a go and let me know how they hold up.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *barqy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ you try changing the battery?

 I'm not sure why it would do this, the other reason i can think of (for my 4th gen) is maybe when I made a ground wire (from head phone jack), it's someone discharging the battery :\


 but uh, i really dont know otherwise._

 

No I didn't change 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Before modding it, the battery went smooth.
 After modded, it still worked fine until the battery drained. And I recharged it, without success. Still can't guess what happened


----------



## joneeboi

You know, that's quite odd as my diyMod 4G has stopped charging as well. This problem is a new one for me. I won't get it back until I fix an iPod for a friend, so wait for me to get it back to look at it.


----------



## barqy

i never rockboxed my ipod, so i dont think it's that issue.

 very strange this is a re-occuring problem.


 could it be because people are trying to burn in the BG caps by having a power soruce plugged it constantly to the ipod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 will await your results joneeboi.


----------



## 4saken

Hi all. I've been planning to do this for a long time, and seeing as it seems like a very worthy player which can be gotten for a total of (hopefully) less than $100, I think I'll go ahead with it. I've read the first few pages (there is a similar diagram to the one I'm going to post on page 3 I think, but I have additional questions which I think aren't answered.

 Is this all that is needed? The lines represent wires and the red marked cylinders mark the caps. The negative ends of the caps will then go to the respective terminals on the 3.5mm jack which is to be plugged into an amp. Where would I ground this 3.5mm jack? Do I need to run a third wire from somewhere (built in headphone jack?) else?

 There is no difference between using the big yellow ones and the smaller black ones other than one being controlled by clickwheel volume? Looks like the yellow ones are easier to solder to. The things (part with the Z or the yellow ones) don't need to be un-soldered either I assume?






 From reading some other posts, I could alternatively push the new signal into the headphone jack or line out, and then connect a custom mini-mini or LOD with caps inside to the amp? This has no advantage though right? I'm assuming by making a third set of wires out of the side of the iPod nano case leaves the line out port and headphone jack in perfect usable operation (i.e. unaltered).

 Cheers. If you are selling any iPod nano, please contact me as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, if I'm totally off the track with the method (I think it sounds too simple considering Vinnie charges a crapload for his service, even minus the lifetime support he gives you) please tell me.

 EDIT: I'm hoping to achieve something similar to this (in that there is an extra set of wires from the side):
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...withps15pj.jpg


----------



## UglyJoe

I've been planning on doing this mod for a while now; I already have the BGs ready to go. However, I'm a little nervous with the development about the battery not charging correctly anymore. I don't have time to browse the 118 pages in this thread, so could anyone summarize the problems that others have had with this mod when done correctly? I'm assuming that syncing and charging via the computer is completely the same as without the mod. I'm also assuming that this mod will mean that the ipod can't be used with a FM transmitter in the car anymore (no big loss there; I used it mainly for charging while on the road). Any other issues I should consider before attempting the mod?


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UglyJoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been planning on doing this mod for a while now; I already have the BGs ready to go. However, I'm a little nervous with the development about the battery not charging correctly anymore. I don't have time to browse the 118 pages in this thread, so could anyone summarize the problems that others have had with this mod when done correctly? I'm assuming that syncing and charging via the computer is completely the same as without the mod. I'm also assuming that this mod will mean that the ipod can't be used with a FM transmitter in the car anymore (no big loss there; I used it mainly for charging while on the road). Any other issues I should consider before attempting the mod?_

 

I recommend taking the time to read the whole thread. A lot of the information may not be relevant to your particular project, but you will gain a broader understanding of the concepts and theories behind this mod. You're asking questions that, had you read the entire thread, you wouldn't have to ask.

 I'm not trying to be a jerk, so I will address your questions at the risk of you ruining your iPod by not understanding what you're doing.

 If done correctly, people don't seem to have any problems with their iPods. This battery issue on the last few pages is a recent issue, and I'm not sure it's related to the mod. It could be coincidental. We don't know yet. You are correct that syncing with the PC and charging are unaffected. Since you do understand this, why do you think your FM transmitter will no longer work? I doubt the dock connected FM transmitter needs the coupling caps. It's not an amplifier really. It's a modulator, like half a modem


----------



## UglyJoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recommend taking the time to read the whole thread. A lot of the information may not be relevant to your particular project, but you will gain a broader understanding of the concepts and theories behind this mod. You're asking questions that, had you read the entire thread, you wouldn't have to ask._

 

I simply don't have time. I completely understand the basics of the mod, and don't have any problems with that. I can't see what issues could arise from the mod being used, which is why the battery problem scared me a bit.

  Quote:


 I'm not trying to be a jerk, so I will address your questions at the risk of you ruining your iPod by not understanding what you're doing.

 If done correctly, people don't seem to have any problems with their iPods. This battery issue on the last few pages is a recent issue, and I'm not sure it's related to the mod. It could be coincidental. We don't know yet. You are correct that syncing with the PC and charging are unaffected. Since you do understand this, why do you think your FM transmitter will no longer work? I doubt the dock connected FM transmitter needs the coupling caps. It's not an amplifier really. It's a modulator, like half a modem  
 

Stray DC voltage. I assume (I haven't looked at any schematics or the like for transmitters) that the L/R audio out in the dock are used by the transmitter to broadcast the signal. I figure that either the excess DC voltage will damage the transmitter itself, or the DC offset would be broadcasted along with the signal, making it pretty much useless. Like I said, this isn't a problem really, because the only thing I use the FM transmitter is for charging or listening to ESPN podcasts 

 I'm also assuming that this mod (for a 5.5G ipod) would render the headphone out useless, as the L/R signal from the DAC is cut off from the rest of the circuit by removing the capacitors just outside the DAC. EDIT: Just read this wasn't the case. Nice!

 So, long story short, no one has reported any other problems other the possible recent problem with the battery?


----------



## FS2

I wonder if some of the problems with battery life are due to damage (likely ESD damage) to chips on the board. It's possible to cause just enough damage to significantly increase the current consumption of an IC, but not enough to cause a functional failure.


----------



## barqy

hi,

 just to clarify, the DIY imod (4th gen) I have has no problem charging!

 It just seems to de-charge (sp?) the battery when the ipod is turned off.

 If I unplug the battery after charging it, the battery holds charge fine


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UglyJoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, long story short, no one has reported any other problems other the possible recent problem with the battery?_

 

I haven't had a chance to look into it yet, but I think the charging issue is more iPod related than diyMod. Of course, it does seem like a coincidence that barqy's, Lil' Knight's and my diyMod 4G are acting up in the power management department, but before we panic, consider that barqy's iPod can charge and discharges when it's turned off whereas mine does not seem to charge at all. Again, I don't know for sure, but I just wanted to clarify before any conclusion can be made with any meaningful certainty. It does concern me that these diyMod power issues are arising as they are, so I will have to continue to look into it; I echo the sentiment for others to speak up on their diyMod power issues.


----------



## 4saken

My post was skipped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4361783-post1180.html

 Basically I just want to verify that you can take the signal from the DAC and push it into a 3.5mm mini plug outside the iPod nano directly and plug that into an amp (without needing to do/cut/solder anything else). I also realize that there must be a ground wire, where would I get this from? I've seen random wires in CAvanessia's diyMod, but the picture is too small to discern the details.

 EDIT: I've read a couple of pages now (up to 30-40), but nobody has been very clear about this way of doing it (basically I want it the same as the RedWineAudio iModded nano).


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UglyJoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I simply don't have time. I completely understand the basics of the mod, and don't have any problems with that. I can't see what issues could arise from the mod being used, which is why the battery problem scared me a bit.



 Stray DC voltage. I assume (I haven't looked at any schematics or the like for transmitters) that the L/R audio out in the dock are used by the transmitter to broadcast the signal. I figure that either the excess DC voltage will damage the transmitter itself, or the DC offset would be broadcasted along with the signal, making it pretty much useless. Like I said, this isn't a problem really, because the only thing I use the FM transmitter is for charging or listening to ESPN podcasts 

 I'm also assuming that this mod (for a 5.5G ipod) would render the headphone out useless, as the L/R signal from the DAC is cut off from the rest of the circuit by removing the capacitors just outside the DAC. EDIT: Just read this wasn't the case. Nice!

 So, long story short, no one has reported any other problems other the possible recent problem with the battery?_

 

None that I recall reading (and I have read the whole thread).

 I have an FM transmitter too, I'll have to see if there is any affect on mine. It plugs into the dock port, but it came with a cigarette lighter charger with a mini USB plug on it that works in my cell phone also. I only use it now as a charging adapter, as I use a mini2mini cable and the AUX port on my car. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I need to make a long docking cable for the car I think hehe

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *barqy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi,

 just to clarify, the DIY imod (4th gen) I have has no problem charging!

 It just seems to de-charge (sp?) the battery when the ipod is turned off.

 If I unplug the battery after charging it, the battery holds charge fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Another piece of the puzzle.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *4saken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My post was skipped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4361783-post1180.html

 Basically I just want to verify that you can take the signal from the DAC and push it into a 3.5mm mini plug outside the iPod nano directly and plug that into an amp (without needing to do/cut/solder anything else). I also realize that there must be a ground wire, where would I get this from? I've seen random wires in CAvanessia's diyMod, but the picture is too small to discern the details.

 EDIT: I've read a couple of pages now (up to 30-40), but nobody has been very clear about this way of doing it (basically I want it the same as the RedWineAudio iModded nano)._

 

I can't say for sure about those locations to attach the wires as I don't have one of those ipods. Assuming those are signals from the DAC, your plan should work, but remember you need a ground still. You will also probably want some coupling capacitors somewhere between those pads you're soldering to and the amplifier. Some amp have the protection built in and you don't need them, but having them means you can use any amp.


----------



## joneeboi

4saken:

 Technically speaking, you can take the ground from any spot inside the iPod, but I think the best ground to take would be the analogue ground that the DAC uses. It might be tricky taking one of the GNDs near the DAC, as there would be a bunch of wires flying around, so try the internal headphone jack's GND supply. Double check with your handy dandy DMM that the voltages are 0 V and you're set.

 As for hooking it straight up to the amp, like Hayduke said, I recommend you do it only if you know that the amp can take DC without destroying your headphones or speakers (unless you're trying to destroy yours or someone else's). Put capacitors in series with the signal unless you know why you can go without. Let us know how it goes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheerio.


----------



## 4saken

Oh I forgot to mention that I already had planned to do that with the Blackgate ones recommended in the first post. The problem now is how to get them to Australia.

 Here is the diagram I shamelessly stole and edited from the first post:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...odlikethis.jpg

 Where would be the best place to ground it?

 And final question before I try to gather all my stuff so it arrives right after my exams, I remove the things labeled "Z" before soldering wires to them, or somehow solder the wires to the sides (there was a bit of discussion I read about this, but to do with the similar, larger yellow ones, so I'll ask again)? I've seen people remove other caps and inductors, and other components when using a line out dock or the headphone jack, this isn't necessary as I bypass them right? I plan to keep line out port and headphone jack functionality perfect (insofar as it does not degrade the quality on my new line out wires)

 Cheers.

 Also, if somebody could help me get the blackgates to Australia, please PM me


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *4saken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh I forgot to mention that I already had planned to do that with the Blackgate ones recommended in the first post. The problem now is how to get them to Australia.

 Here is the diagram I shamelessly stole and edited from the first post:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...odlikethis.jpg

 Where would be the best place to ground it?

 And final question before I try to gather all my stuff so it arrives right after my exams, I remove the things labeled "Z" before soldering wires to them, or somehow solder the wires to the sides (there was a bit of discussion I read about this, but to do with the similar, larger yellow ones, so I'll ask again)? I've seen people remove other caps and inductors, and other components when using a line out dock or the headphone jack, this isn't necessary as I bypass them right? I plan to keep line out port and headphone jack functionality perfect (insofar as it does not degrade the quality on my new line out wires)

 Cheers.

 Also, if somebody could help me get the blackgates to Australia, please PM me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Since your goal seems to be to maintain all the original functionality and add a cleaner line out, you don't want to remove those capacitors.

 The diagram looks fine other then I can't confirm the locations you're attaching to. I don't have a 4G ipod.


----------



## 4saken

Hm thanks. This is what I'm going to do:
 I'm attaching the wires to C53 and C54 after removing the "Z" labeled component soldered on the stock iPod nano. I'll drill a hole in the side of the nano and feed these two wires through, and a wire for the ground which I am yet to find. Of the three wires coming out the side of the iPod, the L and R channel will go into the positive ends of the blackgate caps, while the negative ends and the ground will be soldered to a miniplug to be used with an amplifier. 

 Now I just have to wait for components


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *4saken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm thanks. This is what I'm going to do:
 I'm attaching the wires to C53 and C54 after removing the "Z" labeled component soldered on the stock iPod nano. I'll drill a hole in the side of the nano and feed these two wires through, and a wire for the ground which I am yet to find. Of the three wires coming out the side of the iPod, the L and R channel will go into the positive ends of the blackgate caps, while the negative ends and the ground will be soldered to a miniplug to be used with an amplifier. 

 Now I just have to wait for components 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think removing those capacitors will disable the docks regular line out.


----------



## bobby001

ANyone can show me pictures for the mod on an ipod mini 1G. The first post show only one part of the job :'(


----------



## joneeboi

What you could do, bobby, is send the wires right to the dock. It's pretty much the same as the mini 2G, I theorize. Solder the wire to the inductors and caps around where the mini 2G has it. Check for continuity (zero Ohms between two points) using your handy dandy line out dock and DMM and just poke around near that row of inductors and capacitors. I'm not exactly sure which one it is, but you can easily check once you have yours open. I don't know where ruZZ.il sent his wires, but you're free to send yours wherever you please. That's one of the beauties of the diyMod. 

 If you need further help, we're always here.


----------



## joneeboi

I withdrew my sale of the iPod touch. I am not giving up on it so quickly. I emailed iFixit about a guide for opening the touch, and they said they're working on a method that doesn't require special tools, ie. the metal spudger, but just the regular Joe Blow pry tools that we've all come to know and love. He didn't give me a timeline or even an estimate, so I will just keep chugging away at it on my own until they come up with a frighteningly simple method. I saw a replacement front bezel for the iPod touch on eBay for 20 USD + shipping, so I'm not as scared as before about having to crack it open if need be. Okay, maybe I still am, but not as much as before. Then there are the iPhones and the nano 2Gs and classics and Zunes and nano 3Gs I eventually will come to get to know. *sigh*

 Help is much appreciated.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrinNutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Here we are..






 I tested the resistance @ each of the 4 pts using pin #14 on the Wolfson chip as ground (labeled AGND on data sheet).


 When I put the positive end of my DMM on the "south" end of the closeup image from ipodlinux, with my DMM set to the 2000kΩ position, I get a reading around 600kΩ, for both south ends of each spot. When I move to the "north" end, I get a reading around 160kΩ on the same setting (2000kΩ).
 Does the "higher" reading of the "south end" mean that that is where I should solder my wire to for the mod? I feel pretty confident that it is, but would like to double check.. Thanks!_

 

I just want to close this case, as it had always been an open one for me. From early in my head-fi career, I learned of the iMod and its 4G-only policy. I decided then that I wanted to buy an iPod photo and get it iModded. That dream never came to fruition because of funds and my discovery that the 5.5G iPod rocked so hard. So through this whole diyMod adventure, I've had almost all of the iPods featured except for a couple, the mini 1G and the 4G photo. That's why you may notice that the 4G photo section is very sparse.

 To my good fortune, a co-worker shared that he had a broken iPod photo that he allowed me to fix. I got to work immediately upon arriving home, and I can finally verify that the image supplied to us by vvs_75 with the location of the lineout pins is correct. Indeed, the DMM shows zero Ohms resistance between the chip and the resistors. It's been a long and arduous process, but it's finally paid off.

 I can finally rest at ease now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So BrinNutz, if you haven't tried it still, diyMod your photo using those resistor locations, which are indeed correct.


----------



## oicdn

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f43/fs...ineout-337015/

 I'm curious about that iMod AND the Ipod Photo. How does the 4th gen photo using the 5.5gen caps in the connector sound in comparison to the "OG" way (caps connected internally to the HP jack)? Any gain in SQ or is it exactly the same, just more "versatile"?


----------



## AudioCats

joneeboi, great techincal article you got there... very informative (and formal)


----------



## BrinNutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just want to close this case, as it had always been an open one for me. From early in my head-fi career, I learned of the iMod and its 4G-only policy. I decided then that I wanted to buy an iPod photo and get it iModded. That dream never came to fruition because of funds and my discovery that the 5.5G iPod rocked so hard. So through this whole diyMod adventure, I've had almost all of the iPods featured except for a couple, the mini 1G and the 4G photo. That's why you may notice that the 4G photo section is very sparse.

 To my good fortune, a co-worker shared that he had a broken iPod photo that he allowed me to fix. I got to work immediately upon arriving home, and I can finally verify that the image supplied to us by vvs_75 with the location of the lineout pins is correct. Indeed, the DMM shows zero Ohms resistance between the chip and the resistors. It's been a long and arduous process, but it's finally paid off.

 I can finally rest at ease now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So BrinNutz, if you haven't tried it still, diyMod your photo using those resistor locations, which are indeed correct._

 

Sweet, so all my digging around the net did pay off!!!

 If I ever get some solder and a decent gun, I'll finish it.

 I've now got some wire, caps, and a bigger hard drive, but I think I need a bigger back, because of the hard drive. Anyone know where to get a different back?


----------



## antonyfirst

Hi Guys, can the Nano 2gen be iModded (maybe from the lineout)?


----------



## joneeboi

Thanks, AudioCats. I'm glad you enjoyed it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 oicdn:

 It's more versatile.

 BrinNutz:

 My favourite place for replacement iPod parts has always been eBay because of the cheap prices (including shipping). There are a few places listed in the OP where you can buy the parts if eBay doesn't float your boat.

 antonyfirst:

 Theoretically, it can be diyModded, but I just haven't gotten my hands on one just yet. A friend is going to be lending me his in late August, so I'll be able to poke around in that one. For now, if someone has indeed pulled it off, they just haven't reported it yet. It shouldn't be that different from the other diyMod nano, but there are specifics to consider. Till someone reports it, we're all stranded, really.


----------



## UglyJoe

I am getting ready to do the Mod, and I ordered some 33awg Cardas wire for the routing... THIS STUFF IS TINY! Never used anything like it before. Anyone have any idea how I can strip back the covering? No way my wire strippers would get it.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UglyJoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am getting ready to do the Mod, and I ordered some 33awg Cardas wire for the routing... THIS STUFF IS TINY! Never used anything like it before. Anyone have any idea how I can strip back the covering? No way my wire strippers would get it._

 

What is the cover made of? Will it melt off?

 Use an exacto knife?

 When I strip my tiniest wire I still use my strippers. It just takes a couple tries sometimes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just use the spring loaded kind like this:
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/xc...mages/101s.jpg


----------



## UglyJoe

I was considering heating a big drop of solder and just putting the tip into the pool and hoping the stuff would melt off


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UglyJoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was considering heating a big drop of solder and just putting the tip into the pool and hoping the stuff would melt off_

 

Take a lighter to the end of it and see what happens. You can always cut the end off. I've done it one small wires before. If I'm trying to do 100% work, I would be worried about contamination. It probably depends on what the insulator is made of. After you burn it with the lighter, it may at least make it so brittle that you can slide it off the wire. Can't hurt to try it huh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you use the solder, make sure you dip the end in some flux or something to burn off anything that shouldn't be there. Once you have a nice "clean" tinned end, make your connections.


----------



## joneeboi

I second the old-fashioned X-Acto knife method. I use a blade to strip my 30AWG wire wrap. It takes a couple tries, but it works. I totally wish I had a wire stripper that went down to 30 AWG though.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I second the old-fashioned X-Acto knife method. I use a blade to strip my 30AWG wire wrap. It takes a couple tries, but it works. I totally wish I had a wire stripper that went down to 30 AWG though._

 

I've seen some that go to 32 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But they are kind of pricey for my tastes. $80 just to strip a wire it too much for me


----------



## ok computer

sorry for not reading the whole thread but is their any body who will do ipod mods for a fee, like replacing the battery and imodding?


----------



## patton713MW

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've seen some that go to 32 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But they are kind of pricey for my tastes. $80 just to strip a wire it too much for me _

 

I just bought a pair of Paladin Grip P 20 strippers from HMC Electronics, and they strip wires from 20-30 gauge swimmingly well. Only $14.20. linky They also have the same thing but in 22-10 gauge. I really like em!


----------



## joneeboi

Great link, patton, though shipping to Canada runs the final price just under 60 USD. =T

 I will keep this mind for when the father does a run to the States though.


----------



## enjoiflobees

For the guy trying to strip that Cardas wire. Dont use the exacto knife. Especially if you are doing it so it sounds good. I wouldnt trust the connection like that. Just take your iron and "tin" the wire and the coating on the outside will melt off. Maybe the lighter will work too, but from experience that is the best way to do it.

 BTW good choice of wire. That is perfect for this application.


----------



## joneeboi

Now might be a nice time to bump this thread.

 The diyMod stretches across another brand, with the Cowon D2Mod (naming ideas?). Behold:






 This diyMod brought to you by head-fi member Punnisher, who happily supplied me with the internal photos. The sad thing about this player is that the line out is only available through video mode, and there doesn't seem to be any DIY source for the plugs. This diyMod is possible, but I wonder how useful it really is with the software. I'm also not an expert on this player, so if anyone could chime in, that'd be very useful for me and for everyone else.

 Enjoy.


----------



## UglyJoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *enjoiflobees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the guy trying to strip that Cardas wire. Dont use the exacto knife. Especially if you are doing it so it sounds good. I wouldnt trust the connection like that. Just take your iron and "tin" the wire and the coating on the outside will melt off. Maybe the lighter will work too, but from experience that is the best way to do it.

 BTW good choice of wire. That is perfect for this application._

 

Yeah, I haven't done the mod yet, but I did test the wire with a lighter... enamel burns right off without leaving any noticeable residue. The wire is soooo thin though. I know Cardas suggests using it for tonearm wire, which is well below line level (I think... not really familiar with anything TT) so I was starting to worry that it might be too small for this application. It's certainly EXTREMELY flexible and won't get in the way of anything, for sure. As long as it's sufficient for the job then I will go ahead and do the mod... been thinking of popping open the iPod tonight anyway...


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UglyJoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I haven't done the mod yet, but I did test the wire with a lighter... enamel burns right off without leaving any noticeable residue. The wire is soooo thin though. I know Cardas suggests using it for tonearm wire, which is well below line level (I think... not really familiar with anything TT) so I was starting to worry that it might be too small for this application. It's certainly EXTREMELY flexible and won't get in the way of anything, for sure. As long as it's sufficient for the job then I will go ahead and do the mod... been thinking of popping open the iPod tonight anyway..._

 

You should be fine. If you're up to it, you could always save the caps or inductors you remove, and put them back if you run into problems. Btw, I wouldn't remove both. Removing one or the other will break the signal path. You just can choose which you want to remove. Hint: the larger components are easier to work with


----------



## joneeboi

If it's any consolation, the tone arm wire is probably still several times the copper traces alloted to the line out on the board. I use 30 AWG, and it's still much larger compared to what's given to the DAC pre-diyMod. As usual, remember to secure your wires and to not lift any pads.


----------



## UglyJoe

all right, I've done the mod and it looks successful, but for the life of me I can't get the battery charging ribbon to go back into place. What is the trick that I am doing wrong!!!! iPod 5G Video btw.


----------



## UglyJoe

Nevermind, got it. I thought it was a lever... more like a button.


----------



## UglyJoe

Allrighty, I completed the mod, and I wanted to check and make sure things were all right.

 First of all, the diyMod still plays music through both the headphone out and the LOD, so all's good there. The click will is a little recessed/loose, but I don't really see how there is a lot to do there.

 Second, I have an old LOD that I was using with my Mini3 before the mod; doesn't have the BGs in it, obv. I wanted to check what the DC offset was with the interior caps removed. I got about 1.5V plugging up the LOD and checking the ground versus the signal. I then used my LOD --> RCA cable with the BGs and took another reading. It also started out at 1.5 V but steadily decreased towards zero slowly. I'm assuming this is due to the caps having to charge at extremely low currents (through the multimeter). Question is, how fast do those caps charge in circuit? When using an amp like the Mini3, with no relay and no decoupling caps, how long should I have to wait before plugging in my cans? I'm assuming it's very short if any at all because of the tiny capacitance in the BG (using the 47uF NX Hi-Q series caps)?

 Thanks for the advice, and the mod already sounds pretty good!


----------



## slowth

any mod with nano 2G?


----------



## joneeboi

It's good to know that your mod is up and running. Hope you enjoy it!

 As for the caps, I couldn't really tell you how long to wait; you should test that yourself. Stopwatch, DMM, measure, done. 

 (Sorry, we've been watching lots of "The F Word" and other Chef Ramsay shows around here lately.)


----------



## UglyJoe

Update: This is a really nice sounding mod! I had a LOD made already for my Millet Max, but I just made one yesterday for my Mini^3. Sounds very good already... can't wait for a good burn in on this LOD. Also (finally) got a pair of KSC75s for my portable rig. Haven't had chance to recable them yet, but they already sound surprisingly good in this portable rig.

 Excellent mod, guys!


----------



## joneeboi

Good news, everyone. I got my iPod touch open. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The sad news is that I have a tennis tournament with some friends this weekend, so I won't actually be doing any diyModding for a while. I will make sure to take lots of high res, macro shots. *crosses fingers*

 That is all.


----------



## barqy

^ hey joneeboi, any updates with the 4th gen imod charging/discharging?

 good luck w/ your tournament.!


----------



## joneeboi

As far as I know, the battery is just shot. It works, it's just that the battery doesn't hold a charge. Just looking at the battery, it seems like it's especially puffy as though it were inflated like a balloon. Luckily, the University MicroStore sold its soul to Apple and carries items like iPod batteries. I don't know what could have gone wrong with your iPod though, barqy. Sorry I can't be any more help than that.

 And for other iPod touch owners, if you're also having trouble opening the unit, my advice is to start opening from the top, right in between the power button and the Wifi antenna. From there, work your way down the length on either side with a precision flat head screwdriver and slowly shift. At least, that's the cruel, strong-arm method I used. If it's any consolation, replacement back panels and front bezels go for about 20 USD + shipping on eBay, so it's not all that costly to replace it. Then again, it's not all that costly to be careful while you're working. If I ever get this thing done, I wonder what kind of resale value it would even have. I guess I ought to evaluate its sound first. Anyway, I must entertain the guests now. Toodles.


----------



## dumbears

After lots and lots of talks and thoughts, I finally put my words into actions on my 1st Generation iPod Mini:
 1. replace the battery and HD
 2. mod the phone-out caps.
 3. mod the line-out.

 First of all, I must thank everyone's distribution in this thread, esp. joneeboi and FallenAngel.

 Now, here are the photos:
 The easiest are to replace the battery and HD of my iPod Mini.





 Then, it comes to mod the phone-out caps by replacing the original 100uF caps to 220uF.





 The most difficult part is to mod the line-out.






 While I was blowing off the dusts of the iPod Mini, I suddenly got my caps blown away. Can anyone tell me the values of those caps, which I've taken out next to the line-out circuit? Thanks!


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dumbears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While I was blowing off the dusts of the iPod Mini, I suddenly got my caps blown away. Can anyone tell me the values of those caps, which I've taken out next to the line-out circuit? Thanks!_

 

Grats on the mod! Sounds like you got a nice little player there now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't have a 1st gen so I can't help with identifying the missing parts. I suggest you post another picture with the missing parts circled so someone with a 1st gen can look at theirs.


----------



## bidoux

Hello world,

 My first post. I wanted to know if it is possible to do the DIymod in a Ipod Mini ?

 Sorry for the bad english and if it was already asked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: SOrry it is explained up there.


----------



## dumbears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grats on the mod! Sounds like you got a nice little player there now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't have a 1st gen so I can't help with identifying the missing parts. I suggest you post another picture with the missing parts circled so someone with a 1st gen can look at theirs._

 

Thank you! How stupid I am. I forgot to tell which caps I'd lost. Here is the photo. It's the cap in the red box.





 Pls help to identify the cap used in the red box as well as its size. It's really super tiny. Thanks!


----------



## joneeboi

Congrats, dumbears. I find it interesting that you'd change the headphone coupling caps. I think that's a thread first. Thanks for sharing that with us. How has it affected the headphone out signal?


----------



## bidoux

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dumbears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2. mod the phone-out caps.
 Then, it comes to mod the phone-out caps by replacing the original 100uF caps to 220uF.




_

 

We don't see this part on the picture.
 Could you make another photo please ?


----------



## no_eye_dear

Hi Guy's just wondering if anyone has used the mixer outs 3 & 4 on a 5G video or even if they are enabled?
 I like using the DSP of the DAC for room correction at low volume but the voltage on the HP outs is only 1V and I bi-amp!
 I have a buffer in there to help out but I would prefer the 1.5V of the line-outs but with DSP... Am I right that these are usable this way?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any thoughts chaps?

 TTFN


----------



## dumbears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats, dumbears. I find it interesting that you'd change the headphone coupling caps. I think that's a thread first. Thanks for sharing that with us. How has it affected the headphone out signal?_

 

Theoretically, the bass roll-off should be minimized on those low-ohm headphones by the well-known formula 1/(2*pi*R*C). However, I can't hear any differences between the unmodded and modded ones. I have 3 1st Gen iPod Mini's, so I still can make comparison among them. Perhaps, my UM2 aren't run-in yet. Moreover, I bet switching to BG may better serve this case. I'm using tant caps, which should be avoided, according to many of you. I wish I can find enough space inside the chassis of the iPod Mini.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bidoux* 
_We don't see this part on the picture.
 Could you make another photo please ?_

 

See this then. The caps are next to the WM8731.


----------



## bidoux

Thank you Dumbears. Will I have to replace both of them ?
 Does the sound still go out through the headphone jack ?
 Is the modification for Line Out or for the headphone jack ?


----------



## dumbears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bidoux* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you Dumbears. Will I have to replace both of them ?
 Does the sound still go out through the headphone jack ?
 Is the modification for Line Out or for the headphone jack ?



_

 

Yes, you've to replace both, one for the left and the other for the right. The sound will still go out thru headphone jack. Only if you don't mind losing a few US dollars and time, it's risk-free to do the swapping. You should've some experience in soldering though.

 To your last question, this is only to mod the phone-out. The line-out modding is comparatively more difficult to work out.

 Hope the above info helps.


----------



## Hayduke

dumbears,

 You don't notice any change after replacing the caps? I had the same idea, but some folks here didn't think it would make a difference. I keep meaning to do it anyway, but I haven't touched my soldering iron for weeks now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Too damn busy lately.

 If it worked on the Mini I was planning to do it to my Video as well when I finally decide to open it and mod it.


----------



## bidoux

Thank you a lot dumbears i will probably try this. A last question, do you think the sound through a line out is different from the sound through the line out with this DIY mod ?
 Sorrry for the English.


----------



## joneeboi

Hey, I think we've stumbled upon a new chapter of the diyMod where people will start replacing their HP out caps. Sweet. Now we can investigate audiophile SMD caps. Thanks for getting the ball rolling, dumbears.

 *crosses fingers and hopes he's not getting ahead of himself*


----------



## dumbears

Here is an interesting article from Wolfson on AC coupling capacitor selection, which shared by bichi: http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/...en/WAN0176.pdf.

 BTW, these are the caps used: KEMET 220uF/4V +/-20% CASE B T520B227M004ATE045. Of course, there're another AVX caps 220uF/2.5V +/-10% CASE B installed over in my another iPod Mini. Don't ask me for the differences, just read my name.  I hope I can get my ears trained up one day.


----------



## no_eye_dear

I modded my HP out some time ago so that I could still use the ipod's volume control and DSP for room correction but I basically took the signal straight off the DAC using the DC coupled configuration.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 This is what makes me wonder about the OUT3&4 pins... If I could do the same with those outputs I would have the full 1.5V or even more... there is a boost option in the DAC .... but I'm not going to go reprogramming that!! Way beyond my abilities or understanding


----------



## mbarry

Hey guys. I am debating whether or not to DiyMod my 5.5Gen 80 Gig iPod Video. If I do DiyMod the Lineout at the Dock Connector, The Headphone Out should retain all of its functionality (i.e. Volume up/down etc.) right? And what kind of Capacitors are going to give me the best sound quality? And Is it possible to fit the Caps into the csing of my iPod or does it have to be externally connected? And if I do DiyMod my iPod it won't work with Docking speakers because of the missing Caps right? Thanks in advance.


----------



## joneeboi

How flattering that you'd sign up just to post in this thread. Welcome to head-fi, sorry about your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Headphone functionality*

 If you do it the way specified on the front page, then you should retain the headphone jack signal.

*Capacitor SQ*

 That ultimately comes down to the overall sound of your rig. What headphones (/amp/cables/other accessories) are you using? I love my diyMod 4G with Black Gate NX Hi-Q 47uF 6.3V to PIMETA with AD8620/AD8610 + TREAD through my rescreened Grado Labs SR60s with Canare Star Quad recable, Grado Labs Jumbo Pads with glue mod and sticky tack driver mod. I was told at a meet that my headphones sounded better than another member's GS1Ks, but again, it all completely comes down to your sound preference and rig.

 Short answer goes something like "Find the sound you like on your rig. I like the BG NX Hi-Q 47uF 6.3V in my system."

*Internal Capacitor*

 It depends on what caps you want to use and what other mods you've done to your iPod. gueri_fr proved to us that internal caps was a possible option when you did the CF mod. So far as I know, others have not been able to reproduce the internal caps, but we never say 'die' in DIY, do we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you somehow figure another way, do share with us.

*Docking Speakers*

 They won't work unless there is some method of keeping the DC from getting to the speaker. It boils down to each speaker docking station, so one can't really say for sure. Generally, I would say they wouldn't have that protection because there isn't a threat of DC being in the signal with the stock iPods, but again, you can never really say for sure. Why don't you open your speaker dock and find out?


----------



## no_eye_dear

Maybe of interest to someone if they are looking at the HP out.
 I'm pretty sure this applies to the WM8978 as well.. it works for me!
http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/...en/WAN0131.pdf

 Sorry if this has already been posted before.


----------



## no_eye_dear

OK, had a probe around the OUT3 & 4 and they are muted on my video so using VMID for the dc coupled 'buffered' output on HP is the only route..... Pity


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *no_eye_dear* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, had a probe around the OUT3 & 4 and they are muted on my video so using VMID for the dc coupled 'buffered' output on HP is the only route..... Pity
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't understand. What is VMID?
 So you are saying the line out on pins 3 and 4 of the dock connector are muted?


----------



## joneeboi

It's in the datasheet for the 5G. I don't exactly remember what VMID is, and this computer isn't loading the datasheet so that I can tell you. Yeah, it's in the datasheet.


----------



## Trox

Any news on the Zune 80gb line out?


----------



## barqy

Just wondering, does it really matter if i solder the green or blue wires either to the top pad or the bottom pad?

 Like in this picture:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13...h/IMG_5689.jpg

 also would it matter if I bridged the top and bottom pads together?


 I'm thinking if it DID matter, maybe that's why my 4th gen is being discharged (i didn't bridge the top/bottom pads together, but I did solder 1 wire to the top pad and the other wire to the bottom pad)...hmmm

 thank a ton!


----------



## FallenAngel

Uhm... the bottom pads are connected to the output of the DAC, the top go to the output stage. You do not want to short anything and you want to use the bottom contacts.


----------



## barqy

^ahh

 ill open up my 4th gen again to see what id id wrong

 thanks!


----------



## joneeboi

Trox:

 I emailed Wolfson once for the datasheet of the WM8350, but they said I'd have to sign a non-disclosure agreement, which totally goes against the whole point. If I had one in front of me, maybe I could figure it out. I don't intend on getting one solely for the purpose of opening it up though. Maybe if I got a good deal. We'll see.

 barqy:

 If you're talking about the 4th gen, you want to grab the signals from the rightmost pads on the left of the DAC, assuming that you're facing the iPod right-side up. I don't know why you're shorting anything, but the easiest way to avoid these problems is by following "standard procedure" and then straying from it when you know what you're doing. I still don't know which pads you used for the 4G, as I think you got FallenAngel thinking of the 5G instead of the one you're actually asking about. Maybe you should try to make your diyMod look like this one. Get rid of that solder bridge and just make it look nice and neat like this one.







 You said you soldered one wire to the top pad and one to the bottom pad. This diyMod is upside down, but you should be grabbing the signals from the top and bottom pads. The more important distinction is that you took it from the pads as demonstrated in the image above.

 And above all, images are the best way we can help. If you can't get the photos to us, that's cool. You're just going to have to wait longer to get it to work.


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't understand. What is VMID?
 So you are saying the line out on pins 3 and 4 of the dock connector are muted?_

 

No, I'm talking about the DAC chip.
 OUT3 and OUT4 are alternative outputs that can use the same mixers as the HP out but they can run at higher voltage like the line out. They can even run higher @ over 2V if the 'boost' is enabled.
 Apple have muted these outputs so you can't use them in favour of allowing a DC coupled output on the HP.
 Look at my earlier post ref the application note, or on the spec sheet, for more information on DC coupled HP out.
 Basically it allows you to use the HP out without capacitors by raising the ground to the same voltage potential as the outputs. You connect the ground wire to the VMID pin instead of a common ground connection.

 *****Not recommended if you do not understand the grounding requirements of your amp*****

 TTFN


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *no_eye_dear* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I'm talking about the DAC chip.
 OUT3 and OUT4 are alternative outputs that can use the same mixers as the HP out but they can run at higher voltage like the line out. They can even run higher @ over 2V if the 'boost' is enabled.
 Apple have muted these outputs so you can't use them in favour of allowing a DC coupled output on the HP.
 Look at my earlier post ref the application note, or on the spec sheet, for more information on DC coupled HP out.
 Basically it allows you to use the HP out without capacitors by raising the ground to the same voltage potential as the outputs. You connect the ground wire to the VMID pin instead of a common ground connection.

 *****Not recommended if you do not understand the grounding requirements of your amp*****

 TTFN_

 

I looked at the data sheet after I posted that. I started to understand what you meant, but you confirmed it. Thanks. It's nice to know that I did understand the data sheet


----------



## mbarry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How flattering that you'd sign up just to post in this thread. Welcome to head-fi, sorry about your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Headphone functionality*

 If you do it the way specified on the front page, then you should retain the headphone jack signal.

*Capacitor SQ*

 That ultimately comes down to the overall sound of your rig. What headphones (/amp/cables/other accessories) are you using? I love my diyMod 4G with Black Gate NX Hi-Q 47uF 6.3V to PIMETA with AD8620/AD8610 + TREAD through my rescreened Grado Labs SR60s with Canare Star Quad recable, Grado Labs Jumbo Pads with glue mod and sticky tack driver mod. I was told at a meet that my headphones sounded better than another member's GS1Ks, but again, it all completely comes down to your sound preference and rig.

 Short answer goes something like "Find the sound you like on your rig. I like the BG NX Hi-Q 47uF 6.3V in my system."

*Internal Capacitor*

 It depends on what caps you want to use and what other mods you've done to your iPod. gueri_fr proved to us that internal caps was a possible option when you did the CF mod. So far as I know, others have not been able to reproduce the internal caps, but we never say 'die' in DIY, do we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you somehow figure another way, do share with us.

*Docking Speakers*

 They won't work unless there is some method of keeping the DC from getting to the speaker. It boils down to each speaker docking station, so one can't really say for sure. Generally, I would say they wouldn't have that protection because there isn't a threat of DC being in the signal with the stock iPods, but again, you can never really say for sure. Why don't you open your speaker dock and find out? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thank you for your prompt reply. I was thinking that if you replace the 80 gig drive with a 30 gig, or if you can obtain an 80 gig backing, you might be able to squeeze the Caps into the casing, just a thought. Also if you did not get rid of the original Caps and just wired the DiyMod in parallel wih the orig. setup, and also install a switch, would you be able to say switch the switch off and still have docing capabilities, or would the DiyMod just not work if it is wired in Parallel to the orig. Caps?


----------



## joneeboi

You could certainly install a switch. If you want to keep the line out to pins 3 and 4, I imagine you would have to incorporate the switch into the iPod itself. Another way would be to put the switch into the cable or after the cable and wire the line out straight to an unused dock pin. You'd need at least a DPDT, or double-pole-double-throw, switch, so space may become a factor depending on which one you get. That might be nice for comparisons.


----------



## mbarry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could certainly install a switch. If you want to keep the line out to pins 3 and 4, I imagine you would have to incorporate the switch into the iPod itself. Another way would be to put the switch into the cable or after the cable and wire the line out straight to an unused dock pin. You'd need at least a DPDT, or double-pole-double-throw, switch, so space may become a factor depending on which one you get. That might be nice for comparisons._

 

So if I were to wire it in parallel to the original, both would work fine right? Then I would wire the parallel lines to an unused part of the dock, and make a 30 pin connector with line out that corresponds to the part of the dock that I used earlier, right? Thanks again.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So if I were to wire it in parallel to the original, both would work fine right? Then I would wire the parallel lines to an unused part of the dock, and make a 30 pin connector with line out that corresponds to the part of the dock that I used earlier, right? Thanks again._

 

I think I understand what you're saying. That was my original plan too. I was going to run wires from the DAC to unused pins on the dock connector, then make 2 LOD's to compare them. I like the idea of a switch in the LOD. It would be something to build just for that one experiment though


----------



## joneeboi

I was actually planning (key word here; notice I didn't say "implementing") a capacitor comparison box, where a 2P6T rotary switch allowed you to try up to 6 different pairs of capacitors. In my experience, the total number of poles doesn't go higher than 12, so six pairs of capacitors is the limit. It would be a mighty fine tool to use to find the best capacitor for your rig. What good would it be unless it were low cost and transportable? Hm...Could it be used to float around the world to help diyModders find the best capacitor for their setups? Not very useful but for a few moments. In that case, it ought to be very small and easily shipped. Should I be thinking out loud like this?


----------



## ruZZ.il

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...Should I be thinking out loud like this?_

 

hehe dude you rock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ....1 more exam and I'm free!!


----------



## bobby001

I have a little problem : 

 I modded an ipod mini 2G : I remove the 6 caps and I soldered well the cable and I still have sound when I use it without the blackgates (I tried in a soundstation). Is it normal ?

 I thought if I don't use a cable with BG caps I will hear noise and not the music : am I wrong ?


----------



## ruZZ.il

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobby001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a little problem : 
 ...I still have sound when I use it without the blackgates (I tried in a soundstation). Is it normal ?

 I thought if I don't use a cable with BG caps I will hear noise and not the music : am I wrong ?_

 

Wrong? not quiet. In fact, it's a sign that something is quiet all-right (well, potentially all all right).

 The mod removes capacitors from inside the ipod. The capacitors job is to filter out DC (direct current). The ipod's signal is created on top of this DC, though this DC is what you don't want flowing through your headphones, cause it'll likely eventually damage them, and they wont be operating properly with it. They will nonetheless still be responding to the AC signal thats on top of that DC if they are still working, BUT, the line out is not meant to be fed directly in to headphones, rather in to a headphone amp, where that direct current could be amplified and become even worse! Some amps have coupling caps that will filter it out already, but you'd need to be certain of that before taking the risk. To be sure, we put capacitors in the signal path anyway, to block that DC, which we usually put in the line out cable, or some other contraption.
 In short, is'd not a sign that things are wrong, but it's certainly not good practice to try and amplify that dc and feed it into your headphones. make sure there is a coupling capacitor in the signal path, either in a cable, or at the input of your amp...
 I hope this doesn't confuse you more 

 edit: 
 Ignore most of the circuitry, just take a look at the 2 right most voltage meters..





Input and output coupling


----------



## bobby001

I didn't use it directly with headphone : I just plug in an ipod soundstation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So for you it's normal (sorry but I don't really understand stuff about electricity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## joneeboi

What Sound Station are you using? It could be that it works even with DC in the signal, we don't know. Do you notice weak bass in the sound coming through the speaker? Usually the bass frequencies suffer when there is DC (experience drawn here from CMoy build). Going out on a limb here, I think the speaker/headphone driver is displaced a certain distance from its no-signal state thanks to the DC. From there, the music coming through will displace the magnet, but not as much as with a DC-free signal because it's already off-centre. If I understand correctly, there should be at least 2VDC at the input of the Sound Station. I don't recommend extended use of the iPod and Sound Station in this manner, as you'll likely destroy the speaker in the Station.

 But who knows? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: That's a really nice diagram, Russ. Thanks for linking it.


----------



## ruZZ.il

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobby001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So for you it's normal...?_

 

Well, yes. 
 There IS a signal when using a normal line out dock, but that signal has a component that NEEDS(!) to be filtered out with a capacitor in line somewhere.
 The signal, even with the DC, will cause an amplifier to play sounds on a speaker, but is NOT good practice. So, your mod is probably ok, but you NEED to use a cap


----------



## mbarry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I understand what you're saying. That was my original plan too. I was going to run wires from the DAC to unused pins on the dock connector, then make 2 LOD's to compare them. I like the idea of a switch in the LOD. It would be something to build just for that one experiment though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm sorry I'm bad with abbreviations. What does LOD stand for?


----------



## dir_d

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry I'm bad with abbreviations. What does LOD stand for?_

 

Pretty sure its Line Out Dock but i could be wrong


----------



## dir_d

Ive been watching this thread and was ready to purchase an ipod to start my own DIYmod but i decided to go with a Toshiba Gigabeat with rockbox instead. What you guys have done is amazing and i think i might still buy an ipod, try the DIYmod and pass the gigabeat to the finacee. Only part that stops me is making the LOD with the caps in it.. Im not that great soldering


----------



## joneeboi

Well, there's good news for you, dir_d, if you're not all that great at soldering because you'll get plenty of practice with the iPod dock. You only need three pins in your capped cable and you're supplied with 30, so if you mess some up, you have plenty upon which you can fall. Believe me when I say that when you learn to solder an iPod dock well, you can solder almost anything. Pick up two or three docks in case you want to make a few, and you can re-use those pins too. Once you get going, you get a pretty healthy supply. Just keep trying and you will get it.

 And if all else fails, we have a good roundup of vendors at head-fi DIY that would gladly whip you up a cable for a decent price. Who have we got? ruZZ.il, stevenkelby, soloz, fatman711, and the list goes on. Search (key word there) and ye shall find.

 Here's to your diyMod adventures. *lifts iPod dock into air with vigour*


----------



## dir_d

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, there's good news for you, dir_d, if you're not all that great at soldering because you'll get plenty of practice with the iPod dock. You only need three pins in your capped cable and you're supplied with 30, so if you mess some up, you have plenty upon which you can fall. Believe me when I say that when you learn to solder an iPod dock well, you can solder almost anything. Pick up two or three docks in case you want to make a few, and you can re-use those pins too. Once you get going, you get a pretty healthy supply. Just keep trying and you will get it.

 And if all else fails, we have a good roundup of vendors at head-fi DIY that would gladly whip you up a cable for a decent price. Who have we got? ruZZ.il, stevenkelby, soloz, fatman711, and the list goes on. Search (key word there) and ye shall find.

 Here's to your diyMod adventures. *lifts iPod dock into air with vigour*




_

 

Thx for the pep talk...I think im gonna try to make a Gigabeat LOD 1st(if its possible). Then ill try the diymod\lod when i get more funds. You might get some PMs from me since im not crystal clear on some things.


----------



## mbarry

What pins in the dock are unused? I think i'm going to go with attaching wires in parallel with the original Line Out and having those wires go to 2 unused pins in the dock. Then I'll make a corresponding 30 pin connector with the Caps in them. I'm still debating whether or not to actually do this. I've never soldered anything so small, and the only thing I have ever done inside an iPod was to replace parts. And even doing that while grounded I still managed to fry an iPod's mainboard. Maybe the next time I open up my iPod to replace a battery or something I'll perform the DiyMod.


----------



## bobby001

the only used is the 2, 3 and 4 for the audio.

 2 is the audio ground
 3 is the right
 4 is the left


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobby001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the only used is the 2, 3 and 4 for the audio.

 2 is the audio ground
 3 is the right
 4 is the left_

 

Pin 1 is also ground. Some folks prefer to use that one, but I don't think it makes a difference in SQ.


----------



## ruZZ.il

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What pins in the dock are unused? I think i'm going to go with attaching wires in parallel with the original Line Out and having those wires go to 2 unused pins in the dock. Then I'll make a corresponding 30 pin connector with the Caps in them. I'm still debating whether or not to actually do this. I've never soldered anything so small, and the only thing I have ever done inside an iPod was to replace parts. And even doing that while grounded I still managed to fry an iPod's mainboard. Maybe the next time I open up my iPod to replace a battery or something I'll perform the DiyMod._

 


 This is just slightly confusing. take a look at ipod pinout at pinouts.ru. You'll notice pins 7, 14 and 17 are unmentioned. I used 14 and 17 so they are verified to be unused in my nano but the access was a bit of a pain. a different ipod may have different access. I warn you though, that these pins are VERY small, and pretty tough to handle. I think if you'r capable of it, you should know what to do. The confusing this is the numbering though. the numbering at pinout.ru is INVERSED fram that marked on the board. It's not hard to figure out though. if you're looking at your ipod screen like you normally would, according to pinout.ru, pin number 1 is on the left, when you flip the ipod over and work from the back, it'll be to your right. I suggest you have this covored before tackling anything, and make sure you know what you're doing.
 Good luck


----------



## joneeboi

For all iPods (AFAIK), pins 1, 2, 15, 16, 29 and 30 are all internally connected, so there isn't a difference between "audio" and "regular" grounds. I prefer to use the grounds other than 1, 2 because it reduces clutter inside the dock and lowers the chance of shorting anything. For the iPhone, you want to connect pin 11 to ground (preferably 15/16 but any will do) in order to get any music from the dock, so you could kill two birds by soldering your "audio" ground wire to the jumper between 11 and 15.


----------



## mbarry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is just slightly confusing. take a look at ipod pinout at pinouts.ru. You'll notice pins 7, 14 and 17 are unmentioned. I used 14 and 17 so they are verified to be unused in my nano but the access was a bit of a pain. a different ipod may have different access. I warn you though, that these pins are VERY small, and pretty tough to handle. I think if you'r capable of it, you should know what to do. The confusing this is the numbering though. the numbering at pinout.ru is INVERSED fram that marked on the board. It's not hard to figure out though. if you're looking at your ipod screen like you normally would, according to pinout.ru, pin number 1 is on the left, when you flip the ipod over and work from the back, it'll be to your right. I suggest you have this covored before tackling anything, and make sure you know what you're doing.
 Good luck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thanks for the info. So pins 7, 14, and 17 are unused by anything correct?, or are they just unknown? And if I solder the wires onto 14, and 17, it would not affect the original functionality whatsoever (Docking speakers, data transfer etc) right? Thanks again.


----------



## ruZZ.il

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info. So pins 7, 14, and 17 are unused by anything correct?, or are they just unknown? And if I solder the wires onto 14, and 17, it would not affect the original functionality whatsoever (Docking speakers, data transfer etc) right? Thanks again._

 

I can only speak from my experience, where pins 14 and 17 were unused in a second gen ipod nano. soldering signal lines to them didn't effect any functionality that I knew of and my mod worked perfectly. Although, I did end up melting a bit of my clickwheel ribbon connector, which still worked for a while, then clunked out. with specific precaution, or possibly more space to work with, you may have better luck


----------



## mbarry

Hello again. I have some Caps from an old Portable DVD Player, I don't know if these are any good for an DiyMod. Can you guys tell me if they are adequate?

*List of Capacitors:*
 Brownish "Sammi": 50V 1uF, 16V 10uF, 16V 100uF, 16V 47uF, and a 16V 4.7uF.

 Purplish "Samxon": 16V 220uF

 Black "Samcon": 10V 470 uF, and a 10V 100 uF

 Thanks.


----------



## mbarry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can only speak from my experience, where pins 14 and 17 were unused in a second gen ipod nano. soldering signal lines to them didn't effect any functionality that I knew of and my mod worked perfectly. Although, I did end up melting a bit of my clickwheel ribbon connector, which still worked for a while, then clunked out. with specific precaution, or possibly more space to work with, you may have better luck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks. If the pins are unused then I'm wondering why there are things soldered onto them.


----------



## joneeboi

All those capacitors are within spec. Just make sure you have enough for both channels. Find the setup that sounds best and you're set.


----------



## mbarry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All those capacitors are within spec. Just make sure you have enough for both channels. Find the setup that sounds best and you're set._

 

Will Caps with a higher uF rating sound better, or is it preference? Because I am sure that I can fit the 10V 100uF Samcons into the iPod casing itself. Also is there a difference in SQ if I use different color Caps, the Black Samcons seem to have more capacitance while keeping the size small, while the brown caps seem to be able to handle a lot of voltage, but very little capacitance.


----------



## joneeboi

It comes down to preference, but, to a relative point, larger is better. The spirit of the mod comes from the bass-rolloff problems many have complained about in the iPod, and we "technical-types" can attribute that to undersized caps. With resistance constant, more capacitance means bass rolls off at a lower frequency, thus solving (at least, in part) the problem of bass roll-off. For me, I could somehow detect the difference between 22 uF and 47 uF, and I preferred the 47s. You must also keep in mind that capacitance and voltage rating aren't the only parameters that affect the sound (think ESR, build quality, tolerance, etc.). That's why you should judge by the sound each capacitor gives you.

 And colour has very little sound effect except for the imagined.


----------



## mbarry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It comes down to preference, but, to a relative point, larger is better. The spirit of the mod comes from the bass-rolloff problems many have complained about in the iPod, and we "technical-types" can attribute that to undersized caps. With resistance constant, more capacitance means bass rolls off at a lower frequency, thus solving (at least, in part) the problem of bass roll-off. For me, I could somehow detect the difference between 22 uF and 47 uF, and I preferred the 47s. You must also keep in mind that capacitance and voltage rating aren't the only parameters that affect the sound (think ESR, build quality, tolerance, etc.). That's why you should judge by the sound each capacitor gives you.

 And colour has very little sound effect except for the imagined. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have 1 last question, so if I do manage to put the Caps into the iPod itself, I can use docking speakers correct?, but isn't there more that we are bypassing by doing the DiyMod? Red Wine Audio says there are more components than Capacitors. They say there are resistors, and a whole lot of other things. 

 Thanks a lot for all your patience and eagerness to help. I'll be sure to post Pictures if I do get around to performing the DiyMod (Most likely the next time I have to replace a part).


----------



## joneeboi

You can use docking speakers if the diyMod has internal capacitors. By replacing the other components from the signal path with just the capacitor, you are changing the circuitry quite a bit, but it's still a usable signal. The other elements modify the signal in some way, but to us, they only "contaminate" the sound in the sense that the signal can be cleaner by using better parts. Apple probably implemented some sort of filter after the DAC, but its nature I do not know. On the iPod 5G, I read 100 ohms between the DAC and the L2/L3 positions. So there is some sort of RLC filter going on, I just don't know what kind; I probably learned this in class, but it's been so long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 In short, yes, we are going around more components, but I don't know how that's supposed to affect the diyMod's compatibility with docking speakers though. Perhaps you can clarify what's confusing you as I'm kind of fuzzy on what you're really asking.


----------



## joneeboi

Hey, check it out, we're on TV!

The diyMod: Ultimate Audio or a Dead iPod &mdash; Systm &mdash; Revision3

 edit: This video is really good for beginners. Highly recommended.


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## mbarry

That's a great podcast to download (Although they do get sidetracked very often.) . They do many fun projects, such as a Diy Potato gun, or a Diy waterproof flash drive.


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## ruZZ.il

WOOHOO respect dude! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 started by joneeboi! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 P.S. anyone need a diyDock?


----------



## funch

I just got a 4G Photo from the 'For Sale' forums, and am planning on doing the mod. The only pic I can find is on page 1. All the others have been deleted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. That pic shows where to pic up the signal.

 I have a couple of questions: Looking at the pic, do I connect to the top or bottom of each cap? I would like to keep the 'phone out intact (I'm connecting through the dock), so can I leave the cap's in place?

 Thanks.


----------



## joneeboi

With respect to the image of the 4G photo, you take the signal from the top of the R and the bottom of the L. There are two signals, one that goes to the headphone whose volume is controlled by the click wheel and one that has a constant volume that goes to the dock. If you remove those resistors, then you will still get the signal to the headphone jack.


----------



## funch

OK, thanks.


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, check it out, we're on TV!
The diyMod: Ultimate Audio or a Dead iPod &mdash; Systm &mdash; Revision3
 edit: This video is really good for beginners. Highly recommended._

 

Hey, joneeboi thanks for posting that! I skipped around, but agree - great vid for anyone considering the mod. It really shows what a train wreck one can be in for, IOW making the case for paying for a true RWA iMod or some other sort of service like one I just stumbled upon
	
 if one is not really up for it.

 My 3G is running very solid but I *may* go the external cap route with it someday... Perhaps putting an itty, bitty 4-conductor socket in the top to roll caps (& effectively disconnect dock connector lineout when no caps present to avoid the DC offset bit).


----------



## joneeboi

Hm, how did you ever find that website?  I was wondering how long it would take for someone to find it (and mention it).


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, how did you ever find that website?  I was wondering how long it would take for someone to find it (and mention it)._

 

Actually, I *think* I hit it a couple weeks ago while poking around in google (don't remember search terms... DIYmod, 3G, 4G, 5G or something), but forgot to tag it in delicious. Looked again yesterday & it did take a few searches & paging through results... Maybe you aren't paying Google enough
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have to say it shows class & integrity *not* bringing up your Just Listen Audio site/service here.. C'mon a subtle entry in your sig would not be out-of-line
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, although I did the 3G (cfcubed's guide... piece of cake compared to 5G!), rescued another's attempt on a 5G & have been tinkering electronically for over 3 decades, I'd consider using that service myself. 

 Good luck.. You've sure spent a great deal of effort collating, collecting & confirming info on this thread! Not to mention the various DIYmods themselves.

 BTW, Being quite happy w/my ipods, headamps & phones I've not poked around these parts... Too busy working on hotter things





 That Mini-Aleph was just a scrapyard warm up for an F1 clone well under way.


----------



## Hayduke

Joneeboi

 Grats on the first step 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



About us at Just Listen Audio


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## joneeboi

Thanks, cfcubed and Hayduke.


----------



## joneeboi

In the ongoing pursuit of improving this thread, I am going to add another iPod parts source to the front page. I present the eBay store, podvillage! They have a very wide selection of iPod parts for low-to-reasonable prices. I have always recommended eBay as the best source for parts because of its wide selection and low prices, but you can never be sure of stock. Consider podvillage as a steady source of parts if you're headed eBay's way. Cautions go out for their relatively ample negative feedbacks. They almost overwhelmingly centre around lack of communication for a broken or wrong item. Of course, they have overall very good feedback, but some items slip through the cracks. If that happens to you, be sure to hammer them for communication and exchange/refund. Sometimes they pull items from broken iPods instead of shipping OEM parts, so also be wary of what you buy.

 Personally, I like iDemiGods.com because I am in Canada. Shipping is very reasonable and prices are quite good. I like them because I can keep them accountable if an item is broken or if service is poor. That's also why I wanted to recommend an actual store on eBay instead of just eBay in and of itself. Of course, if you can find a better source for iPod parts, all the power to you. Just consider this one before you head off on your very merry way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheerio.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the ongoing pursuit of improving this thread, I am going to add another iPod parts source to the front page. I present the eBay store, podvillage! They have a very wide selection of iPod parts for low-to-reasonable prices. I have always recommended eBay as the best source for parts because of its wide selection and low prices, but you can never be sure of stock. Consider podvillage as a steady source of parts if you're headed eBay's way. Cautions go out for their relatively ample negative feedbacks. They almost overwhelmingly centre around lack of communication for a broken or wrong item. Of course, they have overall very good feedback, but some items slip through the cracks. If that happens to you, be sure to hammer them for communication and exchange/refund. Sometimes they pull items from broken iPods instead of shipping OEM parts, so also be wary of what you buy.

 Personally, I like iDemiGods.com because I am in Canada. Shipping is very reasonable and prices are quite good. I like them because I can keep them accountable if an item is broken or if service is poor. That's also why I wanted to recommend an actual store on eBay instead of just eBay in and of itself. Of course, if you can find a better source for iPod parts, all the power to you. Just consider this one before you head off on your very merry way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheerio._

 

I've bought parts from them too. My dealings have been OK. Once they didn't include the center button for some plastics I bought, but they sent them. I didn't like their explanation that they "were out of them". They didn't mind, but I get the impression I wouldn't have gotten them if I had not asked.


----------



## joneeboi

Thanks for that input, Hayduke. I'm sure many will find it useful.

 I've found that it comes down to knowing where to get which part. I've been spending time, often in inordinately large portions, looking at where to get the best prices on parts. Funny as it may seem, I prefer to get batteries from Best Buy if possible. Future Shop has that "sniper-laser-on-the-back-of-my-head-as-soon-as-I-enter-the-store," so I prefer just walking into Best Buy and grabbing the battery I need. I was surprised to find that batteries for 3G and 4G iPods cost just over $50 whereas 30GB and 60GB/80GB batteries go for $20. Regardless, if anything goes wrong, get a refund or exchange with BB's awesome return policy, and you don't have to worry so much about getting shilled online. I really wish there were some local store that had all the iPod parts I needed so there isn't the wait and shipping cost. Alas, we must work within the situation we find ourselves, don't we?


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that input, Hayduke. I'm sure many will find it useful.

 I've found that it comes down to knowing where to get which part. I've been spending time, often in inordinately large portions, looking at where to get the best prices on parts. Funny as it may seem, I prefer to get batteries from Best Buy if possible. Future Shop has that "sniper-laser-on-the-back-of-my-head-as-soon-as-I-enter-the-store," so I prefer just walking into Best Buy and grabbing the battery I need. I was surprised to find that batteries for 3G and 4G iPods cost just over $50 whereas 30GB and 60GB/80GB batteries go for $20. Regardless, if anything goes wrong, get a refund or exchange with BB's awesome return policy, and you don't have to worry so much about getting shilled online. I really wish there were some local store that had all the iPod parts I needed so there isn't the wait and shipping cost. Alas, we must work within the situation we find ourselves, don't we?_

 

I live in a smallish town, so sourcing from the internet is s.o.p. here 
 We got a Best Buy late last year, but I don't shop there much. Even with shipping, they are usually still more expensive. I just can't see paying $50 for something I can get for $5 online hehe

 The only time I can source anything locally is when I'm not concerned about the quality (ie RadioShack).

 I have developed a rather large bookmarks folder with supplier links


----------



## funch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With respect to the image of the 4G photo, you take the signal from the top of the R and the bottom of the L. ._

 

I was comparing this answer with the pic and caption of the 4G Photo on page one, and they don't agree. The pic caption says to take the signal from the top pad on each resistor. So, which is correct?


----------



## joneeboi

Hey funch,

 Sorry for the discrepancy. I just checked, and the caption on the image is correct. Take the signal from the north pads for the left and right resistors.


----------



## funch

Thanks. That makes sense, 'cuz there are traces going past each of the 'north' ends of the resistors, to another pair of resistors, which I assume are part of the circuit to the headphone output.


----------



## pcyl

Well guys i have completed 5 and 5.5 G mod and will be proceeding to ipod 4 gen donated by a friend without Hard disk and a broken headphone connector catch up with you guys


----------



## joneeboi

Good to hear it, pcyl and funch. Now how about some pictures?


----------



## iNiGFx

the 20 bucks you spent on the diy mod, is it fairly easy to do? Or does it take a lot of experience with electronics


----------



## funch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear it, pcyl and funch. Now how about some pictures? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Still waiting for caps and tonearm wiring. Then I'll post detailed pix (unless of course I screw things up!).


----------



## joneeboi

iNiGFx:

 The $20 is an exaggerated pricing, depending on what equipment you already have. Already armed with the soldering gun and wire, the price really just depends on the capacitors you use. I'd say the mod requires quite a bit of electronics experience. I try to make it as painless as possible with the many resources available, but the skill and confidence can't really be taught except through experience. I've even messed up a few iPods of my own, requiring complete (and sometimes costly) replacement of the logic board. Get a friend, father, uncle, stranger to do it for you if you don't think you can do it. Messing up an iPod can be too crushing for some souls. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 funch:

 *crosses fingers*


----------



## funch

Well, I'm not too worried. I've got a Bausch & Lomb binocular magnifier to use, as well as a very pointy tip for my iron, so it shouldn't be too tough.


----------



## pcyl

okay guys i will be getting my stuff real soon to fit up the 4 gen 
 it shold not be difficult, i will update you guys


----------



## ruZZ.il

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *funch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'm not too worried. I've got a Bausch & Lomb binocular magnifier to use, as well as a very pointy tip for my iron, so it shouldn't be too tough._

 

I want a steady hand!


----------



## joneeboi

Touché, Russ, touché.


----------



## oicdn

Nobody able to hack the touch yet???


----------



## joneeboi

I have looked into it, and it seems like I'm pretty close to solving it. It is one of the tightest fits in the diyMod line up, so that will be one of the stock disclaimers for the diyMod touch. I will have to do some more experimenting before I can say for sure which capacitors belong to the Wolfson chip, but I do have my suspicions. Perhaps I will take some super hi-res photos for the rest of you to look into it. But yes, I am looking into it.


----------



## oicdn

How did you get it open? I remember somebody having a problem getting their 16g touch open and never got it open.

 Also, you'll prolly have to have all the caps external eh?


----------



## joneeboi

I used this very helpful thread from ipodtouchfans.com. Start opening from the top and work your way down one of the sides. I went down one side with a flat head screwdriver and individually popped off each metal catch. It's not a pretty method, but it is one of the few guides available on the internet.


----------



## Ruahrc

I have a question- I have been thinking of upgrading my (stay-at-home) listening setup and part of the upgrade includes getting an iPod that is dockable for line-out (my current iPod is a 10GB 2Gen that only has HO). I might be able to get an old iPod mini for very cheap (or free) which means putting a 16GB or 32GB CF card in it (and maybe a new battery) will make for a very cheap dockable iPod with which I can run line-out. While the guts are open, I was contemplating applying the DIYmod to it too as was suggested in the OP.

 My question is- although I have seen many people make their own DIYmodded stuff- how come I never see anyone mod an apple remote dock to accomodate caps for small iPods with a tight fit (such as the iPod mini)?

 Since internal caps on a small iPod are basically impossible, would not an obvious solution be to mod the apple dock- stealing a couple of unused (or unneeded, as in the case of ipod photo pins or something) pins and wiring them to a couple of caps, then soldering them onto the built-in line out stereo jack on the back? I have even envisioned letting the caps stick out the top of the dock, kind of like vacuum tubes often stick out the top of amps. That would look pretty sweet, no?

 Anyways has anyone ever tried this? Is it not popular because most DIYMods are geared towards portable use where use of the apple dock is not practical (hence all the cable-out options)? I'm trying to find pictures of the inside of an apple remote dock so I can even assess how feasable such a project is. I've never seen the inside of an apple dock.

 Ruahrc


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now might be a nice time to bump this thread.

 The diyMod stretches across another brand, with the Cowon D2Mod (naming ideas?). Behold:






 This diyMod brought to you by head-fi member Punnisher, who happily supplied me with the internal photos. The sad thing about this player is that the line out is only available through video mode, and there doesn't seem to be any DIY source for the plugs. This diyMod is possible, but I wonder how useful it really is with the software. I'm also not an expert on this player, so if anyone could chime in, that'd be very useful for me and for everyone else.

 Enjoy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

so, how was this D2mod going Jon ? how possible is that ?


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ruahrc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question- I have been thinking of upgrading my (stay-at-home) listening setup and part of the upgrade includes getting an iPod that is dockable for line-out (my current iPod is a 10GB 2Gen that only has HO). I might be able to get an old iPod mini for very cheap (or free) which means putting a 16GB or 32GB CF card in it (and maybe a new battery) will make for a very cheap dockable iPod with which I can run line-out. While the guts are open, I was contemplating applying the DIYmod to it too as was suggested in the OP.

 My question is- although I have seen many people make their own DIYmodded stuff- how come I never see anyone mod an apple remote dock to accomodate caps for small iPods with a tight fit (such as the iPod mini)?

 Since internal caps on a small iPod are basically impossible, would not an obvious solution be to mod the apple dock- stealing a couple of unused (or unneeded, as in the case of ipod photo pins or something) pins and wiring them to a couple of caps, then soldering them onto the built-in line out stereo jack on the back? I have even envisioned letting the caps stick out the top of the dock, kind of like vacuum tubes often stick out the top of amps. That would look pretty sweet, no?

 Anyways has anyone ever tried this? Is it not popular because most DIYMods are geared towards portable use where use of the apple dock is not practical (hence all the cable-out options)? I'm trying to find pictures of the inside of an apple remote dock so I can even assess how feasable such a project is. I've never seen the inside of an apple dock.

 Ruahrc_

 

Try here


----------



## joneeboi

iQEM:

 I talked with Punnisher about that mod, and he couldn't exactly get it to work. After all, the line out is only activated when in video mode, so the D2Mod is only theoretical at this point.

 Ruahrc:

 Here's a direct link of no_eye_dear's capped dock. I don't personally own an Apple Universal Dock, but I like what you're talking about. I think it's been done in a sense, but not to the specs that you outline. The closest to come to it is no_eye_dear's dock, which you can find at post 905, and he does a pretty clean job of it. I've always wanted to pick up one of those docks, but it seems so expensive for something that I can do for so much cheaper. I actually would prefer to integrate it into some amp docking station with the help of the 15 degree tilted dock (look at PCB mounted docks).


----------



## pcyl

here is a photo of 5gen solder with silver AWG 32 
 wire stripping with nail clipper


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iQEM:

 I talked with Punnisher about that mod, and he couldn't exactly get it to work. After all, the line out is only activated when in video mode, so the D2Mod is only theoretical at this point._

 

oh, i c...too bad it didn't succeed...


----------



## Ruahrc

no_eye_dear and joneeboi: thanks for the links. This is very similar to what I was thinking- looks like they gutted an apple dock though and just used its casing and inserted their own dock connector and wiring huh? I found a few pics of the inside of a stock apple dock and it looks like it might be difficult to tap into some of the existing wiring. But a dock-integrated solution is what I would prefer ideally since my intention is to maybe pick up an iPod, DIYMod it, and use it as a stationary source for a listening nook. The reason I like the dock is because a) it's going to be a stationary system and thus I'd really like wall power and the best line-out I can get- and b) I really dig the idea of having the apple IR remote so I can change tracks, etc. without having to either lean up to the iPod or remove it from the dock (thus interrupting the music feed to the amp- both inconvenient and possibly not good for the amp?)

 Ruahrc


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ruahrc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_looks like they gutted an apple dock though and just used its casing and inserted their own dock connector and wiring huh? Ruahrc_

 

Indeed that is what I did, although I just inserted a set of caps and RCA's... very cheap dock off the bay.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ruahrc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found a few pics of the inside of a stock apple dock and it looks like it might be difficult to tap into some of the existing wiring. Ruahrc_

 

Should be easy if you use the line-out pins.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ruahrc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really dig the idea of having the apple IR remote so I can change tracks, etc. without having to either lean up to the iPod or remove it from the dock Ruahrc_

 

This is where I am @ now... I use the HP out direct from the DAC and run it through a cap directly into a tA2024 amp, no dc coupling at the moment.
 This way the remote is not using an extra volume attenuator as you find in some docks.
 I'm actually back on my 4G as well as I prefer the sound once the DSP is set to match my room acoustics.
 Happy modding


----------



## pdupiano

Hey everybody,

 I've decided to look into upgrading my ipod's sq and I came across this thread. I read the first few pages until I realized there are about 130 pages on this thread. I tried the search function for the info i needed but there was just soo much information to go through. Anyway I wanted to know why people don't simply use a line out cable with the capacitors connected onto them rather than go through the process of bypassing the amplifier of the ipod? I mean doesn't the dock line out bypass the amplifier itself? 

 Thanks for your help,
 Paul


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pdupiano* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey everybody,

 I've decided to look into upgrading my ipod's sq and I came across this thread. I read the first few pages until I realized there are about 130 pages on this thread. I tried the search function for the info i needed but there was just soo much information to go through. Anyway I wanted to know why people don't simply use a line out cable with the capacitors connected onto them rather than go through the process of bypassing the amplifier of the ipod? I mean doesn't the dock line out bypass the amplifier itself? 

 Thanks for your help,
 Paul_

 

Yes, the stock line out does bypass the iPod's amplifier, but there are still several non-audiophile components in the signal path. This mod bypasses all that and takes the signal directly from the DSP to the dock connector.


----------



## pdupiano

Thanks Hayduke, on a side note, has anyone tried this mod with the shure se530's? I am very annoyed by the hiss and I thought it might have been a defect from the headphones, but from other posts and after speaking with the Shure folks, I now know it's not a defect. I was wondering if the hissing stops if I do the mod and use a portable amp (like the ibasso D2 or perhaps a tomahawk) with the shures. 

 Thanks again


----------



## funch

I finished my 4G Photo last night, hooked it up, and ..... nuttin'. Sooooo,
 I checked for continuity with my wiring and everything checked out OK, which led me to think that I was connected to the wrong pads to pick up the signal. I checked for continuity between the DAC chip and the pads I was hooked up to, and nuttin' again. So, here's the deal:

 The pic on page one of this thread shows the board upside down. When we were talking 'north' and 'south', I assumed that they were in relation to how the pic was shown. Nope! The signal goes from the DAC chip to the pads that are alone; that is, they have no traces connected to them. Not the pads that have a trace pass through them to the second resistor. In other words, when looking at the page one pic, it will be the bottom pad of each resistor. 

 Sorry to cause so much trouble. Heck, I'm probably the only person here still trying to mod a 4G Photo.


----------



## 4saken

After a very long time, my brother and I finished our diyMOD nano (and we both agree we don't want it anymore - I'm using a Zune, I'm getting my brother a 3G nano off a head-fier). We pretty much destroyed the exterior trying to open the darn thing, the plastic tools we got in a kit ended up completely ruined, so we ended up using a thick flat head screwdriver to get the thing open (and chipping the plastic front half everywhere). The soldering itself was the easier part IMO, the LOD was a bit trickier but it works! Here are some in progress pics!






















 We don't have an amp right now to test it fully, but we hooked it up to the microphone port on my laptop and used Sound Recorder. The music played, was loud and sounded very raw/static-y. Same thing happened with our stock iPod video, so we're hoping the nano or the LOD aren't to blame. If anybody can verify that you're meant to get this kind of noise in the microphone port, please say so.


----------



## darkfury18

You should solder the wire on the left to the other side of the cap, like the one on the right (check out the picture on the first post of this thread). 

 The static sound is probably clipping due to the sensitivity of of the laptop's sound card.


----------



## 4saken

I never thought of that. I thought this way would just have been more convenient as I could make a path between the chips to get to the LO pads.

 I guess I can pull it open. Is it likely that it causing the issue? There is a tiny bit of slack in the wire, probably enough to route it along the right of that left cap.


----------



## joneeboi

funch:

 Right, that's my bad for not specifying that the board is upside-down. I thought the north would make it clear, but I was clearly mistaken. =T I will fix that right away. Is the mod working out for you yet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 4saken:

 darkfury18 is correct: the wire on C53 should go on the striped side of the capacitor and then through to your diyMod dock. I also found the nano 1G to be one of the more difficult iPods to open. There were some videos online somewhere (ifixipodsfast.com? Maybe they took them down; I'm sure YouTube has plenty), but they really helped me open up my iPods. Hope you get your nano working the way you want it to.


----------



## joneeboi

I should have recommended this item long, long ago, but I'm doing it now because I have free time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My dad got me this for Christmas, and it has been supplying me with some pretty great tunes for a long time. In the ever-vibrant spirit of DIY, I have taken it apart and put it back together a whole bunch of times to make it fit my personal use. I present,

 the iPod 3-in-1 FM Transmitter, Charger, and Holster!






 It fits my car's DC jack well without obstructing the other car functions (2002 Suzuki Aerio), and the sound quality is really good for a lot of my music. I listen mostly with my iPhone now, and this charger is one reason why I don't strongly pursue the diyPhone. I like the way the sound hits my ear with the combo of the iPhone, the transmitter, car stereo's EQ and speakers, so no mod for now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The main thing I don't like about this thing is that it clips once the music gets too loud or too complicated (some types of classical music), but for the most part, that isn't a problem. However, I _would_ like to listen to all my music any time, as the clipping has ruined my ability to listen to some of songs through the transmitter. Nevertheless, I recommend it to all of you with a need for an iPod car thing. I may even post a short tutorial of the mods I performed on the bad boy.

 Good price with reviews: DealExtreme: $14.04 For iPod 3-in-1 Car Kit White
 Good write-up: iPod FM Transmitter with Chargers and Car Holder, iPod FM Transmitter


----------



## funch

joneeboi;4615059 said:
			
		

> funch:
> 
> Right, that's my bad for not specifying that the board is upside-down. I thought the north would make it clear, but I was clearly mistaken. =T I will fix that right away. Is the mod working out for you yet?
> 
> ...


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Hello would a CF adapter fit in a Ipod Nano? Also what parts would I need to mod a 4th gen and 5th gen Ipod. Thanks in advance. Kind of confused with the amount of information here.


----------



## Moontan13

I can't decide which dead iPod to get for modding, a gen 5.0 80 gb or a 5.5 60gb. I intend to substitute the HD for CF, using the empty space to house the caps and use the HP jack as the line-out.

 Also, any tips on making the output caps easily swappable?
 Sorry if this was covered, but there's a lot of info here to sort through.


----------



## joneeboi

funch:

 I'm crossing my fingers. *crosses fingers* Here's hoping.

 LeBuLLet:

 It depends on how you want it set up. If you want it to go out the dock, you'll need wires, between 24-30AWG in the 4G and maybe 30-32AWG in the 5G, capacitors that are rated for at least 2V, and a line out dock.

 4G: wires and capacitors inside the iPod, and line out dock to your amp
 5G: wires inside the iPod, capacitors in the line out dock to your amp

 If you send the signal to your headphone jack, then you won't need the line out dock but a mini-to-whatever-termination-you-want cable.

 Moontan13:

 I'd say get the 5.5G because it's newer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think they use the same back casing, but I could be wrong. If you wanted, after the CF conversion, you could use some sort of Molex or crimp connectors so you can easily swap out the capacitors. A more crude solution would be to twist your wires together and cover them with electric tape.


----------



## Moontan13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I should have recommended this item long, long ago, but I'm doing it now because I have free time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My dad got me this for Christmas, and it has been supplying me with some pretty great tunes for a long time. In the ever-vibrant spirit of DIY, I have taken it apart and put it back together a whole bunch of times to make it fit my personal use. I present,

 the iPod 3-in-1 FM Transmitter, Charger, and Holster!

 Good price with reviews: DealExtreme: $14.04 For iPod 3-in-1 Car Kit White
 Good write-up: iPod FM Transmitter with Chargers and Car Holder, iPod FM Transmitter_

 

I have the 8 in 1 version of that same dock, but using the FM transmiter in my car resulted in horrible SQ. Instead I used the dock's line-out with a Sony cassette adapter I had lying around. The SQ was greatly improved.
 This dock also works great with my Milwaukee worksite boombox which has a 12v socket on the back, and a 3.5mm line-in jack.
 I bought this dock last year, then put it aside because of the poor FM performance. I didn't even know it had a line-out on it. I'd been using the iPod HP jack to the boombox line-in. Using line-out to line-in improved the SQ a lot.

 I look forward to seeing the mods you did on your dock.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

What type of mod would be the best for a 4th Gen Ipod? Caps inside or outside, audio through lOD or through headphone jack or even a separate capable? Thanks in advance.


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What type of mod would be the best for a 4th Gen Ipod? Caps inside or outside, audio through lOD or through headphone jack or even a separate capable? Thanks in advance._

 

my advise as to go or LOD rather than head phone as you can try different caps
 i personel preferance M cap/ Auri cap at 2.2uf i hope this answer you correct me if i am wrong


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Pcyl sorry kind of late so can't comprehend everything you are saying I am so sleepy. What you are saying is to have the Capacitors outside the ipod and use an LOD so I can exchange capacitors?


----------



## 4saken

He is saying you have the choice of swapping capacitors for different sound easier than if you planted them inside the case, which would force you to reopen the case if you ever wanted to change the capacitors.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Moontan13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't decide which dead iPod to get for modding, a gen 5.0 80 gb or a 5.5 60gb. I intend to substitute the HD for CF, using the empty space to house the caps and use the HP jack as the line-out.

 Also, any tips on making the output caps easily swappable?
 Sorry if this was covered, but there's a lot of info here to sort through._

 

I would go with the 80GB. That would be a "large back" model. The 5.5 60GB would be a "short back" like the 5th gen 30GB. I say get the large back because it would provide more room for internal caps (assuming you replace the HD with a CF card).

 I'm not sure you need the extra space though. I've been contemplating doing this to my 5th gen 30GB, but I'm not sure there will be room for the coupling caps. I'm not a hurry though. I think subconsciously I'm waiting for the HD to die 
 If I need more room, the plan is to just buy a 60GB back. I'm also waiting until they start making larger CF cards. Putting a 32GB CF card in a 30GB iPod seems like a very minor upgrade. Especially since I already have a 32GB Mini for flash based DAP


----------



## funch

joneeboi;4620261 said:
			
		

> funch:
> 
> I'm crossing my fingers. *crosses fingers* Here's hoping.
> 
> ...


----------



## pcyl

has anyone got a imod ? and actually rip open to see what cable RWA use? as diy mod , sound sig slightly forward compared to IMOD, any feed back ? thanks


----------



## joneeboi

Welcome to the diyMod club, funch. Hope you enjoyed the ride. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *uncrosses fingers*


----------



## barqy

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I want to build a Vcap type dock

 Does anyone know which cap type (value) the commercial guy uses for: Auricaps?

 I think it's the 4.7uf value, but want to confirm...

 Lastly, can anyone recommend a case that's made of aluminum that's small and has splits sides. I can only seem to find plastic ones like this. Or would it be OK to use a case that has the ends that open up instead? 

 thanks!


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *barqy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure this has been asked before, but I want to build a Vcap type dock

 Does anyone know which cap type (value) the commercial guy uses for: Auricaps?

 I think it's the 4.7uf value, but want to confirm...

 Lastly, can anyone recommend a case that's made of aluminum that's small and has splits sides. I can only seem to find plastic ones like this. Or would it be OK to use a case that has the ends that open up instead? 

 thanks!_

 

I'm guessing you're talking about something like a Hammond case. The extruded aluminum cases with the end caps should work fine.

 I can't help you the values for the Vcap dock. I've never taken one apart. 4.7 is the value most folks seem to settle on though.


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *barqy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know which cap type (value) the commercial guy uses for: Auricaps?
 thanks!_

 

Hi Bargy, you need to google "low pass filters" to understand the relevance of the Cap size. Basically, the cap and the next impedance (resistance) will create a filter that cuts off the base at a calculated "corner" frequency. 
 Note: the corner frequency is much lower than the required response to avoid phase issues.
 In short... the bigger the better but if you are going into an amp with a 20K pot directly after the cap then 2uf is the minimum for sub 60Hz base. I usually use 4.7uf on most of my amps.
 If it's a 100K pot then you could go a lot smaller.
 It all depends on your setup I'm afraid.


----------



## pcyl

got a friend taken out ALO dock in side 2.2 uf caps


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_got a friend taken out ALO dock in side 2.2 uf caps_

 

Too low for portable amps (imho), 4.7uF is good for 10K impedance.


----------



## barqy

@no eye dear: ah okay thanks i'll do that

 @pcyl: thanks for the values, I was thinking of going with 4.7uf..


----------



## katzer1

Hi All,
 Question: if i know for sure that I am going to connect a dyimoded ipod to an amp that has dc blocking caps right at the input (eg ra1, pimeta), do I still need to add a caps dock (ipod 5,5) or similar or can I just connect it straight (with a big warning sticker).

 Thanks!
 Erez


----------



## Moontan13

I'm such an idjit. I didn't realize you could get the larger backs on ebay. 

 Thanks for the suggestons. Great people here.


----------



## joneeboi

katzer:

 Connect it straight to the AC-coupled amp. Then again, it depends on how clear the warning on the sticker is.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katzer1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi All,
 Question: if i know for sure that I am going to connect a dyimoded ipod to an amp that has dc blocking caps right at the input (eg ra1, pimeta), do I still need to add a caps dock (ipod 5,5) or similar or can I just connect it straight (with a big warning sticker).

 Thanks!
 Erez_

 

As long as YOU know what you're doing, YOU should be OK.

 If you ever part with it (sell gift etc), you should let the new owner know about the issue and perhaps include a LOD with caps inside.


----------



## Rolamoto

I've opened up my Nano 1G and removed 3 of the screws holding the logic board down, but the last one is stripped. Anyone have a way to remove the last one?


----------



## Moontan13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rolamoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've opened up my Nano 1G and removed 3 of the screws holding the logic board down, but the last one is stripped. Anyone have a way to remove the last one?_

 

Exert a little upward pressure on the board while unscrewing.


----------



## 4saken

I had the same problems opening the nano and taking off the board! I just ended up applying a lot of downward pressure on the stripped area to force the screw to turn.


----------



## Moontan13

Is the head stripped, or is it the threads?


----------



## Rolamoto

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Moontan13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the head stripped, or is it the threads?_

 

The head is the part that is stripped.


----------



## Moontan13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rolamoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The head is the part that is stripped._

 

You may be able to grab the screw head from the side using needle nose pliers. Be very careful.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rolamoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The head is the part that is stripped._

 

I haven't opened a Nano, but I'm guessing it's a small screw. Try using the point of an x-acto knife. If the screw striped, the metal must be fairly soft. The knife blade should be able to cut into the screw a little and let you twist it out. If the knife's blade is too pointy, break the tip off with some pliers.


----------



## Moontan13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rolamoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The head is the part that is stripped._

 

On second thought, it may not be too late to use a screwdriver with the correct size head. The screwdrivers most people have are too big for teensy little screws.


----------



## suicidal_orange

I have built a dock for my imod (yes, I was too scared to DIY, so paid) using soniqs sax cap's (630v 2.2uf) and after about 40 hours male vocals still sound very quiet, just like when new. The bass is also kind of muffled, but I was expecting some burn in, as with the black gates in my cable. Mids and trebble are nice and tight though, near perfect IMO and female vocals sound fine.

 Does this sound like something that will fix itself over time or did I buy fake caps? The only reason I ask is the caps I received are slightly smaller than the size in the datasheet, and the seller (ebay) said this was because they were old stock... I'll leave it running for another 10 hours now, in the hope they will improve, but if this is unusal I shall be looking to replace the caps ASAP.


 Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this


----------



## joneeboi

Sounds like you need to do some cap-rolling, but even then, Capacitors aren't the be-all, end-all when it comes to tweaking the sound. What kind of amp are you using? I think it'd be better to tweak the amp than putting all your hopes in the capacitor, if you have a tweakable amp, that is. I'm no expert on eBay practices, but it sounds like this guy could be yanking your chain. Try getting your caps from a more reliable source.


----------



## suicidal_orange

Thanks joneeboi - you indirectly solved the problem. I was just using my hi-fi as the amp (nothing special but it works!), comparing between 2 inputs. You suggesting the amp was bad made me plug my dock into my portable amp and it sounded terrible! Turns out that somehow one ground wire in the dock had snapped. So now I have 1 cap with 40+ hours on it, and another with none... I wont start complaining about the ebay seller yet!

 On a side note what is cap rolling?


 Thanks again,

 Suicidal_Orange


----------



## joneeboi

Cap rolling is where you try different caps in the position. The term derives from vacuum tube-operated equipment where you roll the tube around in an effort to remove it from its socket without damaging the pins too much and replace it with another tube. It carries over for opamp rolling, amp rolling, so on and so forth. Good luck with the dock.


----------



## wgr73

Glad to see the progress on the DiyMOD!! I've had a lot of people ask me to sell mine! NO WAY! Hey Jon, your really making this easy for the new ones. The first post is Very nice now! Way to go! Just thought I'd drop back by to say whats up! I haven't been into audio much lately...I flipped my 4Runner a few months back and now I've been into modding my truck. I love music, I gotta get back into to it!


----------



## joneeboi

Thanks for the holler, wgr73. I remember you telling me about that car flip; there was rain and dirt and speeding and other things going on. How's that coming along? I think we're all still patiently waiting for you to share your work on the Zune and nano 2G. No rush, of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 While you're at it, throw in a dock position for the diyMod (with selectable caps, obviously 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and you're golden. Good to see you back.

 PS. That diyMod 5.5G 80GB looks mighty tempting. Care to part with it?


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the holler, wgr73. I remember you telling me about that car flip; there was rain and dirt and speeding and other things going on. How's that coming along?_

 

Yeah it was dirt. I got a new truck so thats all better now...just been into doing diesel mods to it! Its fun! I also have a rockin' sound system (one of the first things done to the truck of course!). Im lovin it!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think we're all still patiently waiting for you to share your work on the Zune and nano 2G. No rush, of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 While you're at it, throw in a dock position for the diyMod (with selectable caps, obviously 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and you're golden. Good to see you back._

 

Ahhhh, I know. I just graduated this summer too so working full time is killing my modding plans. When I get time I'll try to post back the work (I haven't even attempted)!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS. That diyMod 5.5G 80GB looks mighty tempting. Care to part with it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 NO!! I love it!!!


----------



## Lil' Knight

After fixed the bug of my diyMOD Video 5.0, I used it for a while but now the flaw is still there.
 I wonder if anyone can help me give it a check? I'll pay all the cost for you.


----------



## joneeboi

YGPM.


----------



## blippster

Hey joneeboi,

 Don't mean to hassle you, but any progress on the mod for the iTouch?


----------



## mbarry

Electrolyctic Caps are the best for the DiyMod correct?


----------



## joneeboi

blippster:

 I'm actually not allowed to talk about development of new mods, but if anything, just check the justlistenaudio.com website as I will be posting updates there as they come, few and far between as they are.

 mbarry:

 That depends on what kind of sound you like. I just use the BGs because that's what RWA used and they fit quite nicely in my 4G.


----------



## elliot42

I have some general purpose Nichicon caps (VX series, or maybe VK; they're at home and I can't remember), will these be an improvement over the stock SMD components? Or should I not bother with them and get some caps designed for audio (BGs, Nichicon FG/KZ)?

 And is this the correct configuration for the caps (+ve side of the cap connected to iPod):
  Code:


```
[left] R )-----+|(-----( iPod G )-------------( Line Out L )-----+|(-----([/left]
```


----------



## joneeboi

Only trial and error can really tell. Experiment and see what you like. I can only guess the audio capacitors will sound better to you, but only you can be the judge of that. Also, the code you've got is correct.


----------



## elliot42

Thanks, I think I'll be getting some better caps then to try. I'll still put these general purpose ones in and see what they're like, and if I can tell a difference.


----------



## joneeboi

That's good. And while we're still on the topic, I can't believe I haven't shoved this thread down your throats yet:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/bou...re-buy-254491/

 A long time ago, I compiled a sizable list of vendors that carry boutique capacitors. I haven't updated it for ages, but you've probably seen it in my signature anyway. I just thought I'd point it out to everyone. If enough people view it, maybe I'll update it.


----------



## Moontan13

I'm going to play the heretic for a minute here:

 Is the DIY mod appreciably better than simply using a LOD into a good amp/phones combo?

 The reason I have to ask: I've been using the headphone output on my iPod 5.5 to feed the line input on my Milwaukee worksite boombox. Then I began using a LOD instead, and the sound quality took a giant leap. I got the same result when using a LOD to my home stereo. I can't wait to get an amp for this thing.

 Will the DIY mod have a similar dramatic result?


----------



## joneeboi

As far as bang-for-buck sound difference goes, I didn't think capacitor swaps made that much difference until I heard the difference between 22uF and 47uF BG caps in my 4G. Then again, I was listening in the dark and quiet of my room late before going to bed, so it was a bit more noticeable for me than it may be for you. Nevertheless, I've said it before and I'll keep repeating it until kingdom come: sound is very personal and only you can be the judge. I heard a big difference; I don't know if you will. Take into account the numerous iMod rave reviews and compare them with those given here. Then there are the scores of threads on capacitor swaps (within arm's reach are the Millett MAX and Alien DAC threads).

 IOW, I don't know, just listen and find out for yourself.


----------



## mbarry

OK, say if I had all the insides of my iPod wired up (DAC directly to Ports 14 and 17). Then how would the caps go? Do I just snip the wire in two and solder one lead of the Cap to one half of the wire, and the other lead to the other half, and wire that to a iPod dock connector, and everything should work out right? Which side goes first? The Neg or Pos?


----------



## elliot42

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which side goes first? The Neg or Pos?_

 

I asked the same thing 7 posts above. Drew a little diagram too.

 This is how it goes:
  Code:


```
[left] R )-----+|(-----( iPod G )-------------( Line Out L )-----+|(-----([/left]
```


----------



## joneeboi

You may want to replace the wires entirely as they may need to be a bit longer to accommodate for the caps. Also, hot glue is highly recommended to secure wires which prevents the often unnecessary and expensive replacement of the logic board. I've learned to not glue directly over the pads because there may come a time that you want to replace the wire, and ripping the glue off usually takes the pad with it. Maybe I don't even need to be directing this to you, but I will offer it to whoever is reading.


----------



## mbarry

Thanks.


----------



## jma790

It would be great to see this mod applied to the iPod Touch... I wonder wich one would be better for this, the 1st or the 2nd gen one... do you think that this mod is possible for any of these?


----------



## joneeboi

Ideally, it would be both, but I wouldn't hold my breath on either of them. Remember that this thread is mostly a community effort, so if anyone can help out, that'd be good for everyone.


----------



## zeiner-rider

Hi everybody! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have a problem.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My headphone output of my Ipod Video G5 is damaged. One Chanel seems to be ok, on the other i can't hear anything.
 But the Line out at the dock-connector works. I mean that the both channels of the Line-Out work as they should.
 But they are very loud and it is no solution for the future. I use rockbox.
 I thought that there is an AMP after the DAC, and of this AMP one CH is dead. But i don't know where i find it on the PCB. Is it integrated in the Wolfson?

 A big device, i think it is an capacitor or resistor burned. 
 Does an pic helps you?

 Greets from Austria,
 Martin


----------



## joneeboi

The datasheet for all the Wolfsons in the iPods usually recommend a capacitor after the DAC. I haven't seen an amp after the DAC in the 5G, so I think you're wasting your time looking for it. A picture would definitely help, but I think you might need to be replacing some SMD caps. I imagine there would be some form of output current limiting such that the short circuits that happen when you remove the headphone jack would not kill the elements, but maybe there's something else at play here. We had one guy replace the SMD caps on his mini, so maybe that's what you might be looking to do.


----------



## zeiner-rider

Hello and thanks!
 Well it was no short circuit with the jack. 12V from an Computer Power Supply damaged following device (don't ask why. I know, i'm an idiot! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




):






 Is it C146?


----------



## joneeboi

Yikes, that is pretty nasty. I guess it's time for you to replace both of those capacitors. I suggest getting a few values for those caps partly so you can experiment with the sound, but mainly because in case the situation repeats itself, you can replace it with another. The datasheet lists 220uF, but depending on what the impedance of your headphones are, you may want to tweak that value.


----------



## zeiner-rider

well, thats seems to be great!
 I thought that the converter is dead!

 Is it an electrolytic capacitor ?


----------



## joneeboi

It's not electrolytic; maybe polyester or tantalum. If you're able to listen to music through the line out, then the DAC still works. The headphone jack and line out have the same signal but are processed differently, so the DAC still works if the signal is present in the line out. I wonder how the cap blew up though. Were you listening to especially loud music?


----------



## zeiner-rider

i was checking a car-amp with the headphone output as signal. Unfortunately i connected the output with Supply Voltage of the amp.

 I think there is more dead. I cheked several caps, no one helped.


----------



## joneeboi

Looks like maybe it's time for a brain transplant.


----------



## jma790

Hi Joneeboi,
 I was watching some pics and it seems that the DAC in the iPod Touch is a WM8758BG, the same one as the 5G iPods.
 I wonder if the diyMod would improve the sound as it does with a 5G iPod... If only I could be able to do this... =D


----------



## joneeboi

It seems people are pretty anxious to get the diyMod touch. I tried, but it seems impossible to see where the signal goes to from the DAC. I even got a mini microscope to do some sleuthing and investigating, but I think Apple might have sent the signal underneath the chip itself. There is a bit of metal shielding that hides the chip away, so seeing the traces is near impossible. I could probably Dremel it away, but that is an ugly solution that doesn't even guarantee success. Maybe the skillful solderer can get the wire onto the chip's pads, but that's also risky. I'm not sure where to go with it just yet.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeiner-rider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i was checking a car-amp with the headphone output as signal. Unfortunately i connected the output with Supply Voltage of the amp.

 I think there is more dead. I cheked several caps, no one helped._

 

Looking at the pic you posted, I would be surprised if that cap was the only component damaged. I don't think I would even try to repair that mainboard, but the good news is replacements are easy to get. Here is one:
iPOD Video 5th Gen 5.5G Logic Motherboard Main Board - eBay (item 380064709426 end time Oct-16-08 07:33:58 PDT)

 Good luck and let us know what happens.


----------



## zmorris

When there's a solution for the new 4G nano, what caps would be suitable for this mod and can fit inside the nano? There's a slight gap next to the battery which may be a perfect spot to place them.


----------



## bidoux

Why does the DIY mod usees more battery than the non-moddded one ?
 Because the amp section is kicked off, it should have even more battery
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## joneeboi

zmorris:

 If a solution presents itself in the nano 4G, it will likely be the shorting of DAC outputs to dock.

 bidoux:

 Where are you getting reports of shorter battery life? I can only think of people's diyMods malfunctioning or batteries dying like they are prone to do, but I can't remember someone mentioning shorter battery life. Theoretically, you'd be correct, but I don't know where people are finding these amp sections. I've only found CRL filters after the DACs, but no amps. Could that be what the DZP chips are doing?


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bidoux* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why does the DIY mod usees more battery than the non-moddded one ?
 Because the amp section is kicked off, it should have even more battery
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ._

 

The mod shouldn't affect battery life enough that you would notice. Where are you reading this?

 There IS an issue with Rockbox and battery life with iPods in general. This has nothing to do with the mod, but I suspect a lot of folks that mod their iPods also run Rockbox. Perhaps that's the cause of decreased battery life?


----------



## bidoux

Thank you guys!
 I saw it but maybe I didn't understand well the point.

 The man was talking about his *Imod
* (not DIY mod) and said that *with* Rockbox on it and the mod the battery life is very shorter.

 But you think that the DIY mod doesn't kill battery life. Does it make be longer ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I have another question, if I do this mod can I make it go to the jack output. That way I won't need a special LOD?

 Edit: Last question, what kind of caps do I have to put after the line out ?


----------



## joneeboi

I have heard of RockBox killing battery life, but I honestly couldn't tell you with the diyMod.

 As for sending the signal to the headphone out, you can most certainly do that. I didn't think of it your way, but I figure if you're going to be doing all this DIY, you might as well whip up your very own LOD. Then again, it does take quite a bit of know-how to get it really good. I'm still experimenting with the perfect way to make a reliable LOD. Yeah, whichever way you want, it's all good.

 Finally, one of the advantages of the diyMod is you get to select the type of caps you want to use. Experiment and read reviews, check the front page for a few links on the subject. You're not tied down to any type of capacitor, but you can try out whatever until you find one you're satisfied with. Good luck.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bidoux* 
_The man was talking about his *Imod
* (not DIY mod) and said that *with* Rockbox on it and the mod the battery life is very shorter._

 

That's the reason 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bidoux* 
_But you think that the DIY mod doesn't kill battery life. Does it make be longer ?_

 

Why would it help battery life? Isn't the line out a full power signal? You can think of the internal amplifier as sort of a variable attenuation function to allow volume control (I know this isn't 100% accurate, but it works for my thinking). The internal doesn't use up more power sending the signal to your headphones, so this mod _shouldn't_ affect battery life.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bidoux* 
_I have another question, if I do this mod can I make it go to the jack output. That way I won't need a special LOD?

 Edit: Last question, what kind of caps do I have to put after the line out ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If you route the "cleaner" line out signal to the headphone jack, you may still need coupling caps, the same as via the dock connector. Of course, this depends on your amplifier. Some amps have caps on the inputs already, but in this case you don't need an LOD with caps built in.

 I'm rereading this and it's about as clear as mud huh? 

 As to what type of caps, one of the more popular choices are 47uf Blackgates. I'm don't know enough about the high end audio caps to say much more.


----------



## ruZZ.il

well, in terms of power usage, the fact that the line out has larger voltage swings doesn't mean everything since the current it drives into a high impedance input of an amplifier is much lower than it would be feeding into headphones (V*I=V^2/R). Assuming even a gain of 1 the amplifier does more of the 'work' since its feeding the same voltage into a much smaller impedance.. So using an external amplifier and it own power source should actually mean less work for the ipod to have to do.. so there must be something else if the consumption is higher using the line out.


----------



## suicidal_orange

The rockbox battery problem is fixed as of ages ago from my experience (I get ~12 hours out of a 5.5g 30gb model which has less RAM so uses the hard drive more than the 60/80gb) and that is using flac files. I turn the volume all the way down as it doesn't effect the line out volume anyway - not sure if it shuts down the amp section but it can't hurt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also I did my first DIY mod yesterday on a 5.5g 80gb "dead hard drive" model from ebay, and it works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm quite surprised as my soldering iron is far from fine tipped, and I'm not experienced but for about $45 it was a risk worth taking. Nothing special to note, and no research required thanks to having a RWA imod with a clear front to reference to, which agrees with the instructions in this thread exactly!

 I then found this formula for working out which caps would be good for a given setup, but am not sure what a good answer is - can anyone help?

  Quote:


 f = 1/(2*pi*(50,000+32)*47uf)
 f = 1/(2*pi*50,032**0.000047)
 f = 0.0677Hz 
 

I've got a PA2V2 on the way which is around 10,000 at the input (I'm putting together a cheap package to convince others this mod is worthwhile!) and it will be used only with IEM's or earbuds, so compared to 10,000 not enough to bother adding to the equation.

 Thanks


----------



## bidoux

Thanks for the answers, I will first do some caps before doing the LOD and the mod. 
 I know, I'm a bit weird.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm looking for caps that I can find at my local electronic store.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What are the name of it, the µf and the V ?




 Something like this.


----------



## joneeboi

suicidal_orange:

 Yeah, that equation is a bit off. It's supposed to just be the input impedance of the amplifier, so scratch out that "+32" there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 bidoux:

 Those capacitors are Black Gate NX Hi-Q, the same ones RedWineAudio uses. You can't see the markings, but I think from the width, it looks like the 47uF 6.3V I have as well. You likely aren't going to find that in the local electronic store, but specs you'd want to watch for are 4V< and, coming from the equation suicidal_orange used,

 C = 1/(2*pi*Z*f)

 with Z as the input impedance of whatever amplifier you're using,
 f as the corner frequency (anything between 20Hz and 0Hz, really)

 You're probably better off ordering from Farnell though.


----------



## bidoux

I think Joneeboy you noticed that I'm French so it's hard for you to understand me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wasn't talking about the auricap's one but rather the idea of this picture, that is adding lots of capacitors.


----------



## joneeboi

Si vous voulez parler en Francais, peut etre ce sera plus facile pour vous.

 vvs_75 would know more about that particular arrangement, but typically, you can just put one capacitor in series with the DAC. People have been bypassing capacitors for I-don't-know-how-long, but even in such new designs as amb's gamma-1 DAC, there are positions for a coupling and bypass capacitor, though in the headwize thread, there was mention that bypassing wasn't really necessary. I don't really know, I just attribute it all to the voodoo and magic of audio that can't really be explained by numbers. Trust your ears.


----------



## suicidal_orange

Thanks for the answer joneeboi, but I still don't get it. In a scale of 0-20Hz f=0.0677Hz (from the equation) sounds too good to be true. Unless even 50,000 input impedance is considered a light load? I'll read up on some amps to check


----------



## joneeboi

Hey, that number still falls between the range, doesn't it? It is a bit overkill as some like to send the corner frequency to something "more reasonable" like 5 Hz or 17 Hz. It's up to you to decide how you like the way it sounds.


----------



## qusp

hey guys,

 i'm planning on doing MY first DIYMOD this week; I just bought a 5/5G CF modded ipod and i'm gonna do it first. Ive been building LOD's for a while now and I learnt everything I know about soldering etc. from building radio controlled cars when I was younger. Of course now that i'm doing this stuff I also have some complimentary knowledge. The problem is though, that my maths isn't really up to scratch for working out the values for the caps. and unfortunately I dont have the spare $$$ to just keep buying high end caps until I find something I like. 

 Even though the 5.5G ipod has room inside for the caps thanks to the CF mod (with room to put the caps inside), I already have the appropriate blackgate DIYMOD LOD. I want the option to be able to also use a larger less portable capped dock like the VCAP dock L8R so the caps inside isn't ideal. Anyway from the research I've done so far; and also from chatting with stevekelby, I think I have decided to go with one of two options. 
*option 1:* small value VCAP TFTF combined with a 3.3uf VOIP VCAP 
*option 2:* small value VCAP TFTF with 3.3 or 4.7uf Mundorf Silver/gold/oil or silver/oil. 

 I'm going to be using this with a pico and SE530's[portable] and SENN HD.25's looking at getting either the ES2 or some dynasones soonish.

 I like a lively/ meaty yet sparkly SQ I like detail but not at the expense of sounding cold and too analytical with bass extension being more important too me perhaps than treble extension. The pico already has a rep for having a really smooth and liquid HF but i'm a little worried that it will be too transparent for my tastes so the mundorf option appeals; at least on paper. I like my audio to be fairly balanced and 'right' sounding but perhaps a little more forward/chunky(is that an audiophile word? hehe) than truly transparent

 the LOD's that i'm using will be DIY silver/gold in silk and DIY jena and cryo silver.

 What I'm planning to do is do the DIYMOD (with cardas silver 33G) this week (you will probably hear from me again during I imagine LOL. and then audition steves TFTF VCAP and OIMP VCAP dock at the Sydney meet in a months time. in the mean time I will get a feel for the sound signature of the DIYMOD and its synergy with the pico, MY LOD's and current cans.

 then I will revisit the choice and factors.

 will my current experience be enough without screwing it up do you think? how much harder to solder is the pcb as opposed to say the pins in an LOD connector? I'm pretty confident I wont screw it up since i've got a steady hand and the actual process seems quite minimal once you have the ipod open. But I will make sure to fasten the wire with glue after each progressive joint.

 possible problems could be that I only have a gas soldering iron with 1mm tips in conical and chisel. it does have limited temperature control but not with great accuracy. I like it for my current purposes but I wonder if it is fine/accurate enough?

 So do I need to buy a second logic board incase I screw it up? or do you think I will be fine? Also I plan on being the first on here to actually do the 3G iphone mod, will this break the HP out like some mods? I'm going to do the ipod mod first because its going to take some big ca-hones to do the iphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sorry for all the questions; from my experience at least as well as some choice words from steve, with the cap choice issue all the good science in the world cant tell you what it will sound like.

 any help would be much appreciated


----------



## suicidal_orange

Hi qusp

 I did my first mod the other day, using a 3mm chisel tip and ~22awg wire - neither are really made for the job! I had previously made a couple of LOD's and other cables, but nothing so small as this and I must say it was tricky and there is more fear of damage when doing pcb than a LOD. I resorted to putting my iron on full (about 400 C) and just going for it. Dead ipods are cheap enough on ebay so why not was my basic thought! I do have a working RWA imod though so wasn't really worried if it did go wrong. One thing to bear in mind is even if you do ruin it the headphone out will still work while you wait for a replacement board (it may not sound good, but better than nothing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 If you have lots of soldering experience and a sensible tip size go for it, I'd expect it to go perfectly. If I can do it anyone can.

 As you can see in this thread I too am undecided about the caps, so I won't offer any help on those. I'm getting some lower uf black gates as they are comparitively cheap to compare with the 47uf in my current LOD. I'll post some thoughts on them in a couple of weeks (I hate burn in time...) hopefully they will reveal something about the value if not the sound signature of different types.


----------



## Hayduke

qusp,

 I wouldn't order another logic board until you actually ruin the one you have.

 If you have successfully made a LOD, you should be able to do the mod OK. The pads you're soldering to are similar size to the pins in the connector. In fact, the pads might even be a little bigger. I'd say give it a try. What have you got to lose? The only reason you might want to consider ordering a new logic board is your deadline of wanting to be ready before the gathering near you. Maybe you could just find a source for the logic board and figure out how long it will take them to get it to you. Keep in mind you'll have to do the mod again with the new board.


----------



## qusp

thanks for the replies guys; I think i'll be fine. The only mitigating factor is the added stress when you are working on something more precious than $3 dock connector. Although i'm working with some wire thats $2.50 per cm ATM so i'm no stranger to stress. I think i'll just have some 'dutch courage' and go for it. The build itself seems quite simple and as long as I remember to secure everything it should be AOK i'm using 33AWG cardas and quad euclidic so the materials are on my side. 

 Is it possible to mod both the line out and headphone out on the 5g because then I could put some blackgates inside for the headphone out and leave it without caps for the line out. that way I can use it with or without a capped dock. I could put caps inline with the HP out and leave them out of the line out signal.

 as for the caps I think i'm just going to have to suck it and see.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cheers


----------



## Hayduke

That sounds like it would work as long as you want to make your iPod only usable with an amp. Most folks like to maintain the headphone out for ultra portable use, but I think your idea is sound if you can live with the shortcomings (can't plug headphones in directly).

 Another option would be to wire your modded line out to different pins. I was going to do this myself originally so I could compare the difference, but I decided it was easier to just use 2 iPods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You could make your own LOD (since you already know how) that uses the "special" pins and has the caps.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That sounds like it would work as long as you want to make your iPod only usable with an amp. Most folks like to maintain the headphone out for ultra portable use, but I think your idea is sound if you can live with the shortcomings (can't plug headphones in directly).

 Another option would be to wire your modded line out to different pins. I was going to do this myself originally so I could compare the difference, but I decided it was easier to just use 2 iPods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You could make your own LOD (since you already know how) that uses the "special" pins and has the caps._

 

yeah well I dont really mind about always needing an amp + LOD to use it. I only bought the ipod for this purpose. I already have an iPhone 3G and an old nano if it came to that. so for ultra portabl;e I've always got my phone with me anyways.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 good idea about using different pins for the capped and non capped signal path. I think I'll follow through with that. less work that way I could just run the cardas to there and just have a split right near the dock.

 cheers


----------



## MilkyWay

Qusp, you won't be disappointed, I got joneeboi to do mine and it sounds absolutely stunning in my rig lossless MFSL/DCC->diymod->sonicap dock->mini3->K701


----------



## Stikk

Hey everyone.

 I'm planning to do a diyMod, my first one, if that helps, sometime in the next couple of weeks and I am looking for some suitable caps. The caps will be going inside and I'm going to convert it to CF (hopefully) so there should be plenty of room. I am a little concerned, though, I think I may have broken my click wheel when I removed the battery (which I am also upgrading) so I am wondering if anyone knows how to remove the click wheel? I have no idea how I would have broken it so maybe it's not broken, I don't know, so if anyone has any ideas on how I should test it, that would be good too..

 So back to the caps.. I gather that 47uF non-polar (is that the same as bi-polar?) electrolytic caps and I am getting the impression they make a huge difference to the sound so I'm happy so spend a few bucks on them but apparently black gate have closed down or something and I can't find anywhere that makes ordering them easy.. I'm in Australia so if any other aussies could tell me where they got theirs from, that'd be really helpful 

 Also I'm not finished reading it all yet but my iPod is a 4G iPod and I would love to find a step-by-step guide as to how to do this mod which I haven't found.. Anyone know where there is one or should I keep picking through this thread and work it out for myself?


----------



## suicidal_orange

Stikk: All the links you need to do the mod are in the first post - there is no need to pick through the 100+ pages. Remove the caps specified (or match the pics) and attach the wires instead. It's not complicated, but is quite hard if that makes sense.

 The only missing thing from the first post is an Australian supplier of caps, which I can't help with unfortunately. 

 As there are only 2 poles bi-polar is the same as non-polar, just means there is no + or - leg. Good luck with the mod


----------



## suicidal_orange

Just found out the reason for using thin wire for the DIYmod - I just opened my first one to transfer it to a new case and the wire was moulded to the front, and removing it has pulled off the lower pad of L2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is there any later contact that can be used on a 5g? I've tried to find the back of the pins without luck, but will dig harder if someone says it can be done. If not I'll just put it back on ebay for the uneducated who think headphones sound fine as that socket still works. And it's payday so dead ones are expensive so if that is required A quick answer would be appreciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess I'll have to wait a while for my second try though


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stikk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also I'm not finished reading it all yet but my iPod is a 4G iPod and I would love to find a step-by-step guide as to how to do this mod which I haven't found.. Anyone know where there is one or should I keep picking through this thread and work it out for myself? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think the pictures on the front page are pretty descriptive. Let us know if they aren't.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *suicidal_orange* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just found out the reason for using thin wire for the DIYmod - I just opened my first one to transfer it to a new case and the wire was moulded to the front, and removing it has pulled off the lower pad of L2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is there any later contact that can be used on a 5g?_

 

You could solder the wire straight to the dock.


----------



## qusp

well I finished the DIYMOD for 5.5G havent built the capped LOD yet so don't know exactly what the results are. the ipod did turn on though so thats a plus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'd like to post a couple of pics for you to look at jon, I just did the standard mod ATM. heres a pic you'll have to trust me that the pads near the dac are soldered correctly because I covered it up with tape for strain relief before I thought about taking some pictures. The wire might look a bit scary to you; and trust me it looked scary to me too. I used cardas 33AWG tone arm wire; and its soooo fine. it is also like no other wire that ive worked with before in that under the insulation the wires are coated in enamel so when you strip the wire (which you do by dipping the end in a solder pot until the enamel burns away.) before this happens though the first layer of insulation shrinks back exposing what LOOKS LIKE bare wire
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




;ive been assured By stevekelby that this wire is not conductive unless its tinned. scared the crap out of me though I tell you. I wasnt the neatest in routing the wires because they arent too cooperative being so thin they dont really stay in the shape that you bend them into. doesn't realy matter with wire this thin though as long as its not under the click wheel. its so thin that its really easy to close the case again even without taking too much care as to where to route them.






 do you think I need more solder? I pretty much justr used what little was on my tip and the left over from when I removed the caps.

 what do you think?

 BTW this was actually easier than I thought it was going to be the hardest part was putting it back together again


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## elliot42

Looks good. I would only use as much solder as needed, I found it was very easy to bridge pads when adding solder. You might also want to stick the wires down with some hot glue when you're done and it works. Don't do it on any pads, but I'd do it close if possible; just so the wires can't pull when putting the iPod back together and rip off the board.


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## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elliot42* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks good. I would only use as much solder as needed, I found it was very easy to bridge pads when adding solder. You might also want to stick the wires down with some hot glue when you're done and it works. Don't do it on any pads, but I'd do it close if possible; just so the wires can't pull when putting the iPod back together and rip off the board._

 

thanks MAYGHT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 yep I didn't really want to add any more solder if I could avoid it. better for signal transfer and safer in view of how close together those points are. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 gonna go downstairs and build te LOD now; we'll see how it went in an hour.

 cheers


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## elliot42

I have minimal solder on the pads where the wires are on my mini, just enough for a secure connection I reckon is all it needs.
 Also, are you positive those wires are all enameled? Don't want them shorting out anything else on the board.


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## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elliot42* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have minimal solder on the pads where the wires are on my mini, just enough for a secure connection I reckon is all it needs.
 Also, are you positive those wires are all enameled? Don't want them shorting out anything else on the board._

 

well i'm as positive as I can be without using them before but stevekelby; the well known DIYer and cable guru here from adelaide; he sold the wire to me and told me not to worry if the cover melted back because they are not conductive unless they are 'tinned' seeing as the only way to strip this stuff is to hold it in hot solder until the enamel burns away it would be a serious design fault if they werent enamel coated. because every time you do it the cover shrinks back a bit. its inherent in the design anyway i'll be finding out in a min. the ipod started up fine straight after and it plays tunes etc so if theres a short I dont know how. i jaust have to solder the mini on the end of my LOD and i'm off. fingers crossed. I'll be pissed if theres a short because of misinformation. though I cant see that a company like cardas would let such a design flaw exist. can anyone else confirm the enamel coating?


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## elliot42

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* 
_ive been assured By stevekelby that this wire is not conductive unless its tinned_

 

Ah, didn't see that bit. I haven't used enameled wire before, but it looks like bare copper in the pic which would have me fretting


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## qusp

yeah if it hadnt have been him then I would've been really fretting to; as it was I still was
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that is until about 5 mins ago when wonderous level came up on my monitor in my RME (the interface that i'm monitoring it with) I actually let out an audible YEEAAAHH!!!!! so I plugged the SE530's in and yep both channels are producing wonderful open audio
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 so now i've just got the caps burning in. ATM I dont have a portable amp; until my pico arrives next week (its shipping as we speak) i'm just getting all prepared for the occasion. I've built some great LOD's for my iphone and now this for myself, actually the LOD i'm using ATM is a bit getto looking because I tried to put the caps in the regular slimmer size dock rather than the huge one and plus I was really anxious to get this all together. still great sounding because its jena and cryo silver but not as slick as I would like because the dock casing didn't close perfectly. doesn't matter though the sound is what counts on this one. Ive got some more blackgates anyway and the next project is a VCAP/mundorf dock. 

 so now thanks to all you guys for providing the info and courage to crack open my ipod and go for it. Now i've got a CF modded, DIYMODDED, rockboxed ipod
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. anything else I can do to it? other than the elusive digital out. this really is a great project, and the thread is extremely informative. The hardest thing about it was putting the ipod back together again
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the actual process is really not that hard if you have some previous soldering experience and the right tools, materials at hand.

 so thanks everyone who helped and i'll post some more results after burn-in and especially when my pico arrives
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cheers guys


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## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elliot42* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, didn't see that bit. I haven't used enameled wire before, but it looks like bare copper in the pic which would have me fretting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

And another thing that put my mind at ease a bit, was the fact that it's Cardas *SILVER* 33AWG tone arm wire; so the fact that it looks a bit like bare copper isnt too much of a worry when you think about it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cheers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 back to listening to burn-in......... sweet, sweet music


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## Hayduke

The easy way to put any fears at rest is to test it with your meter. Touch that part that looks like exposed copper with one probe and see if you have a circuit to the other end. Without trying to offend or anything, this seems like a no brainer. Seeing that copper makes me nervous too. I wouldn't trust the logic that because the iPod works, all is well. Now that it is solid state, you might bounce the thing a bit more and cause the wire to move somehow and then you get a short. The easiest way to test this would be with another piece of wire. Tin both ends and then attach your meter to the areas where the insulation has shrunk back.

 Grats on your new and improved iPod


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## joneeboi

I echo Hayduke's sentiment. Keep in mind that a little precaution can prevent an unnecessary servicing of some 70 to 90 dollars. I could take a photo of the undiyModdable logic boards on my desk to prove my point, but I don't think that's quite necessary. Maybe I'll just do it for kicks later. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's nice to see another diyMod, qusp, and the energy you bring to what seems like such an old mod; we're almost one year in the making!


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## qusp

I cant find my meter anywhere since I moved and have just ordered another one from ebay. for the moment i've been getting by by using a battery pack plus led circuit for testing continuity in cables, the cardas wire has also been discussed earlier in the thread for this purpose and the method of stripping ie. in a solder pot means that it is impossible to avoid the coating shrinking back to some degree; its just part of the design sometimes it happens to a minimum and sometimes it goes a bit further.. the ipod works fine and stevekelby assures me that this is cool; I sent him a pic as well. also after the photo was taken I lay another small piece of teflon tape under the wire (the bit that looks scary) just to be safe. but as I said its silver wire and if you put that together with the other info I'm not worried. 

 edit: I had already tried with a piece of the wire that was not connected I tinned it at both ends and touched the copper looking bits at both ends with my getto continuity tester and no LED action was forthcoming I did this before turning it on for the first time. so all is well; it just looks scary so regardfless of this testing I was still nervous. dont worry about feeling you need to warn me of simple things, its cool
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There are things that are outside my knowledge and I dont mind asking about them, so dont worry about bringing up stuff that seems obvious to you. I wont take offense unless its obviously intended my brain is also a pretty good device for testing intent
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but even with my getto tester I was still a bit worried so I thought i'd post to see if anyone else had worked with this wire. I tried to tin several bits of it using the solder pot, lighter etc. but got the same result to differing degrees. I think its safe to say Ive put it to rest though regardless of how it looks

 joneeboi: thanks for the welcome man; it really is a great mod, you can have a really quality player for just over $100USD for a 5.5G if the hardrive was defunked and if you buy a working ipod you can have it for $160 with the dock and caps. I plan on adding some new options to this thread as well regarding the use of caps both inside AND outside by putting another set of lines to the firewire data pins on the dock. this way it can be used with a slim dock and also with a larger capped or VCAP dock. this mod is comparatively easy compared to the ones i'm working up to and I wanted to get some practice before moving onto my iphone


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## qusp

also i've read that its not worth it to mod a 6G classic but thats on the ALO site . do you guys have an opinion on this. I was talking to a friend about what I was doing and he expressed interest in getting me to do it to his classic. I'm happy to do it for him but wasn't keen on the all risk no gain approach. Anyone dome this yet


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## Hayduke

I haven't looked inside the new iPods, but maybe Apple has recognized people are modding them to improve the line out and decided to improve it themselves. Perhaps it has a clean output compared to previous models *shrug*

 You're LED continuity tester method seems sound to me. If I used my meter, I would just have it in continuity test mode anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds like you're fine. And yes, I do understand your point about it being silver wire and seeing copper. I would just be overly cautious and test it anyway. It sounds like you were thinking the exact same thing.

 So you were modding an iPod Video? I have one of those too, but I haven't opened it yet. I've only done a Mini. (maybe I should post pics next time I open it hehe). I find I use my 30GB Video a lot less now that I have a 32GB Mini. I just hate the idea of bouncing around a hard drive, so I prefer my solid state device. Lately I've been considering getting one of those adapters to let me put a CF card in there. Is that what you did? And now you think there might be enough room for a couple of the little 47uf Blackgates? If so, then that's my next project. That is after I make a LOD with caps inside to use with the modded Mini. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What's a good place to get Blackgates? I guess I should go do a search and then ask


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## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't looked inside the new iPods, but maybe Apple has recognized people are modding them to improve the line out and decided to improve it themselves. Perhaps it has a clean output compared to previous models *shrug*_

 

 yeah maybe they thought it made them look bad that all these amateur people were opening up there ipods and for a $20 investment making the player a much better device.

  Quote:


 You're LED continuity tester method seems sound to me. If I used my meter, I would just have it in continuity test mode anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds like you're fine. And yes, I do understand your point about it being silver wire and seeing copper. I would just be overly cautious and test it anyway. It sounds like you were thinking the exact same thing. 
 

 yep with all the info in the world it still made me nervous 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 So you were modding an iPod Video? I have one of those too, but I haven't opened it yet. I've only done a Mini. (maybe I should post pics next time I open it hehe). I find I use my 30GB Video a lot less now that I have a 32GB Mini. I just hate the idea of bouncing around a hard drive, so I prefer my solid state device. Lately I've been considering getting one of those adapters to let me put a CF card in there. Is that what you did? And now you think there might be enough room for a couple of the little 47uf Blackgates? If so, then that's my next project. That is after I make a LOD with caps inside to use with the modded Mini. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

Yep its a 5.5G and I have a CF adapter installed with a 32GB card in it. Gonna sell the CF card shortly and get a 64GB as soon as the price goes down a bit. It adds easily enough room for a couple of NX HiQ 47uf BG's but for the moment ive installed them in a dock another reason why ive only used tape for strain relief. I just wanted to get a result quickly and then have a good think about how I was going to make the mod my own.

  Quote:


 What's a good place to get Blackgates? I guess I should go do a search and then ask  
 

 well I got mine from hifi collective; they arent the cheapest place to get them from (not bad though) but the shipping to OZ isnt too bad from them; plus I also get silk tubing and sometimes mundorf wire from them so I just grabbed a couple of 47uf and some 100uf while I was doing my last order. still didn't have the ipod then but was just planning ahead because I knew it was inevitable. I don't have much time ATM so cant list all the other suppliers that I know of check out hificollective though I think its just .com but have a search. when I get b=ack home later i'll put together some links for you. there is a comprehensive list of suppliers on the first page of this thread but theres a couple of othr ones.


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## suicidal_orange

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could solder the wire straight to the dock. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks joneeboi - I have just got back to looking at this after building my first amp. A bit of digging under some tape and the dock pins are revealed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess I this board isn't dead afterall! Maybe I should find some more apropriate wire before trying to get it through the board though...


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## jordanross

Man, this thread really makes me want to mod my iPod! I think when I upgrade from my RSA Tomahawk (possibly to a predator), I'll break out the soldering iron and buy some caps. By the way *qusp* nice job on your mod.


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## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's a good place to get Blackgates? I guess I should go do a search and then ask _

 

Parts ConneXion is pretty good for price and speed. One of my favourites actually, but that could be because I'm in Canada. They have cheap shipping that's more than proficiently packaged and protected, and they've got a good reputation to boot. So, A++, highly recommended, great seller!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 qusp:

 The toughest part of the diyMod 6G is getting into the darn thing. I don't own one, so it's different when people offer to give me theirs to open. iFixit actually bends their back casing, something you'll notice when you read the comments on their 6G disassembly guide.

 Something I've had on my mind was to do a form of "search and replace" for the Black Gates. Yes, they are supposed to be nice, but I wonder if any other similar spec capacitors can dethrone them. It's going to take some time since I don't even have a working diyMod at the moment, but I will be placing some Digikey orders soon to work on the BantamDAC. I'm not familiar with the audiophile terminology, and I never want these kinds of reviews to be taken as dogma, but it'll offer something for those who are looking for easily accessible capacitors still in production. That way it'll offer some extended support for future generations of vintage iPod owners. I'll let you guys know how that works out.


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## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Parts ConneXion is pretty good for price and speed. One of my favourites actually, but that could be because I'm in Canada. They have cheap shipping that's more than proficiently packaged and protected, and they've got a good reputation to boot. So, A++, highly recommended, great seller!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Thanks. Question though...

 If you recommend them so highly, how did you miss putting them on page 1? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: I ended up ordering from soniccraft. I wanted to try their caps in the same configuration as CAvanessia. I'm going to put them in an enclosure with sockets so I can roll caps. The BGs (47uf 6.3V) I plan to build into the dock connector of an LOD.

 I'm hoping I can also squeeze a mini USB connector in there too for charging and possibly PC connection. My pda phone uses a mini USB, so I already use those cables a lot. This would make my electronic life easier hehe


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## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jordanross* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_........ By the way *qusp* nice job on your mod._

 

thanks jordan
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Joneebo*i: OK so the 6G is a PITA to get open, but my main question was; is the SQ improvement as worthwhile as with the 5.5g?


*Hayduke*: there is room for caps and a mini usb in the large type dock connector; the slimline and medium sized ones wont have enough space. the medium has enough space for just the caps but its a VERY tight fit. so i'm afraid you are stuck with the monster slightly wedge shaped one. This adds functionality put make sure you can fit it through the hole in your skin/case or that you can modify the case without reducing the structural integrity too much.


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## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. Question though...

 If you recommend them so highly, how did you miss putting them on page 1? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hm, I thought I put it there. Better check 9.4.5 again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 qusp:

 If I had done the mod, maybe I could tell you.


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## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, I thought I put it there. Better check 9.4.5 again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 qusp:

 If I had done the mod, maybe I could tell you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hmmm.. Sorry jon I took that you had been asked by other people to open their 6g and how difficult you said it was to mean that you had modded someone elses. Guess you just changed a battery for them or something. 

 Anyone here done it? I had read that it's not worth it for anything past 5.5g because of the already good SQ but maybe it was just because they have to bend the case to get it open?? Who knows u guess I might leave it until I know. Anything else I need to know if I do do it jon? Is the layout pretty much the same? Excuse me if it's already on the first page but I don't remember it being there. Just saw the iPhone 3g as a new addition
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really have to stop talking about that and just so it problem is I live my phone too much to risk losing it ATM looks easy enough but I'm not to sure if I want to be the trailblazer
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 probably just need a stiff drink before hand certainly wouldn't be covered in my extended warranty do you think I could claim manufacturing defect. LOL my manufacturing defect thy is. I'll see how the iPhone sounds with my pico this week when it arrives sing I've already got a working diymod for transportable and the iPhone will me designated for true portable use the difference while out and about probably won't be worth the trouble it's linenput is already very clean sounding. Perhaps I'll just take the diymod as far as it can go. We'll see


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## suicidal_orange

Sorry, no news on the 6g modding - just another question.

 Having been reading around about capacitors and modded ipods one thing comes up time and time again - caps in the signal path are bad. With this is mind I decided to try using a standard LOD with my PA2V2 (it's a nice little amp, but cheap enough to replace in the name of research 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I noticed no smoke coming from it, and the music had no noticeable distortion. I didn't listen for long or with decent headphones for fear of damage, but having read that if an amp has input caps putting an imod straight in would be fine (and that having caps in series reduces their capacitance, thus increasing bass roll-off) it's tempting to try it properly. I then tried the same with my total bithead and again, no smoke or distortion. This would remove 4 solder joints as well as the caps themselves and the wire so surely it's a good thing to not use caps?

 PS: I take no responsibility for anyone who fries their amp/headphones trying this


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## joneeboi

The fact that no smoke or distortion shows up and that capacitance is lowered with two series caps instead of one doesn't mean that everyone should go without the capacitors. It comes down to every mod and what it's intended for. If you are going to always use it with an amp with input caps, then there's no need for output coupling caps. If you're going to be moving around from amp to amp or you're going to lend out your diyMod, then for safety's sake, put the caps there. The problem with a DC bias at the input of most amplifiers is that they amplify the DC along with the AC (the music), and that can fry your speakers' and headphones' coil wires by running too much current through such high gauge wire; think thinner than 32AWG. With certain amps, you don't even need to have coupling capacitors because they zero the DC at the output with a DC servo. Even then, there's a level of DC you can safely have at the output, anything lower than 20mV. As long as you're okay with that, then do what you like. It is DIY after all. =)


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## suicidal_orange

Oh to have a DIY portable amp where I know what is going on inside!

 Sounds like it was a good idea not to try with nice headphones, wouldn't want them burning up in my ear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My multimeter is behaving strangely so I'll stick with the caps for now, thanks for the quick warning joneeboi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For future reference will it just be switch multimeter to mV and measure with no music playing to see the offset? If it's well below 20 it's good, if it's over 20 you saved my headphones?

 I may seem rather careless from my posts in this thread but I'm not really, I'm just trying to learn by experimentation - one day something will go really wrong but hopefully not anytime soon


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## qusp

I bent the cable for the battery in my DIYMOD a bit too much when I was frustrated the other night and for a bit it was being tempermantal; it would power on and then when I put it all back together again it would go off because the snap of putting it back together again would shake it out of the socket. took me a while to realize thats what the problem was, but since I put a bit of tape over the connector holding it in place its been fine.. I had a look at the cable and its bent, worn and a little mis-shapen in the area where it contacts the terminal; would it still work if I just snipped the cable just a little bit shorter (about 1-2mm) so it contacts in a fresh new place. my other option is to get a new battery of course but if I can avoid it that would be cool. funny thing is that for a bit I thought I had screwed the logic board up, (lots of swearing and shouting was evident), so I ordered a new one; that wont be here for a week or so and it turns out I didn't need it. I didn't cancel the order even though I could have, I thought that seeing as I am planning some more radical and experimental modding that it would be handy to have it on hand anyway.


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## suicidal_orange

The cable is just 3 flat wires - the connector looks to be long enough to remove at least an mm so I'd think it would be fine. Probably not something many people have done, and if it works as-is why "fix" it though? It shouldn't go wrong till you next open it, which hopefully wont be anytime soon as you have a spare board to play with


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## joneeboi

If you're going to be cutting the battery wires, make sure you cut them one at a time. No need to short them by cutting them all at once and causing any unnecessary explosions.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *suicidal_orange* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The cable is just 3 flat wires - the connector looks to be long enough to remove at least an mm so I'd think it would be fine. Probably not something many people have done, and if it works as-is why "fix" it though? It shouldn't go wrong till you next open it, which hopefully wont be anytime soon as you have a spare board to play with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

thanks for the replies guys
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah I figured it would be cool and yes I had thought of the shorting thing. was going to use a scalpel blade so clean and one at a time
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'm already on thin ice with the good woman without having to worry about explosions and electrical fires 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




also wasn't going to do it unless I needed to; but since its just a bit of tape holding it there and a small one at that, it more than likely it wont be too long before it stretches or moves from being carried around. then again maybe it wont. I'm keeping the new board pristine and in its wrapper for when/if its needed; no sense doing my modding on that because I would have to then take the other one out to test it properly. I realize you're probably joking though
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hey guys check these new ultra fast and large capacity (up to 100GB
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) CF cards; they're pricey, but blindingly quick; apparently the world record holder for speed and capacity; and they are going to release an interface to allow you to combine up to 4 CF acrds into one HUGE SATA or PATA interface. I wonder if it will be small enough to put in an 80GB 5.5G ipod back-plate if its small enough that could mean a 400GB CF ipod!!! with a read write speed of at least 50mb/s of course tha ipod would come in at about $2800


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## joneeboi

That reminds me of the iPod mini someone connected to a 3.5" HDD. I don't remember what the transfer speeds were like, but the battery only survived for something like 7 minutes. That would be an interesting iPod to have stolen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Something I'd recommend is to test out our logic board before it's too late to return it. I've received a bunch of dud logic boards that I couldn't replace when I found out. Test it and _then_ put it on the shelf.

 I'm so excited for myself. I just installed a new car deck, scratch that, *two* new car decks (one for the boys' car, one for my parents' car because my dad wanted the same thing) this weekend that control iPods and my iPhone. That's right, no more FM transmitter clipping at perfectly reasonable sound levels. I got a Pioneer DEH-P4000UB that now plays all my music without clipping. I'm so very happy. I learned a bit about car stereo, and now I have sweet, clipless audio in my car. I should have bought this before the summer. And the neat thing is I can control my music with a remote so I don't have to shift my eyes between road and iPhone as much. Safety and sweet grooves. I'm so excited.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That reminds me of the iPod mini someone connected to a 3.5" HDD. I don't remember what the transfer speeds were like, but the battery only survived for something like 7 minutes. That would be an interesting iPod to have stolen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL did he hook it up outside the ipod or did he build some sort of frankenmod enclosure? if this thing can actually be set up as a raid (not sure if ipod linux could do that but more than likely) then you could be looking at 150-200mb/s

  Quote:


 Something I'd recommend is to test out our logic board before it's too late to return it. I've received a bunch of dud logic boards that I couldn't replace when I found out. Test it and _then_ put it on the shelf. 
 

good idea I can always seal it up again if I ever end up selling it. It's supposed to be new and not used/reconditioned; but your right, better to be safe than sorry.
  Quote:


 I'm so excited for myself. I just installed a new car deck, scratch that, *two* new car decks (one for the boys' car, one for my parents' car because my dad wanted the same thing) this weekend that control iPods and my iPhone. That's right, no more FM transmitter clipping at perfectly reasonable sound levels. I got a Pioneer DEH-P4000UB that now plays all my music without clipping. I'm so very happy. I learned a bit about car stereo, and now I have sweet, clipless audio in my car. I should have bought this before the summer. And the neat thing is I can control my music with a remote so I don't have to shift my eyes between road and iPhone as much. Safety and sweet grooves. I'm so excited. 
 

wow jon!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sounds like a sweet stereo, your dad must be wrapped


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## joneeboi

Well, I haven't actually cased up his car again because I didn't have a dash kit at the time (still don't). I recommend he not drive the car when he needs to park for extended periods because I fear someone would be encouraged to steal the darn thing. Plus he's been bothering me to get him another USB+line out dock. Either way, it seems to be a pretty sweet deck. What more could I really want? Actually, having album art would be nice, but I suppose I can't have my cake at the same time. It was a pretty good buy from Best Buy. I wouldn't necessarily say it was my best buy, but it was quite good.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Anyone in the US has 2 pairs of BG 47uf caps? I'm finding them but stuck by the minimum order from Percy Audio


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I haven't actually cased up his car again because I didn't have a dash kit at the time (still don't). I recommend he not drive the car when he needs to park for extended periods because I fear someone would be encouraged to steal the darn thing. Plus he's been bothering me to get him another USB+line out dock. Either way, it seems to be a pretty sweet deck. What more could I really want? Actually, having album art would be nice, but I suppose I can't have my cake at the same time. It was a pretty good buy from Best Buy. I wouldn't necessarily say it was my best buy, but it was quite good.





_

 

how do I know thats real jon?lol looks like its been edited in photoshop hehe
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW where are you getting the USB LOD from? (<-cheeky grin)


----------



## joneeboi

All real. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No smoke or mirrors, just a product photo from the Pioneer website. And that "USB LOD" is just the regular USB cable that we all get with our NIB iPods.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All real. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No smoke or mirrors, just a product photo from the Pioneer website. And that "USB LOD" is just the regular USB cable that we all get with our NIB iPods._

 

I doubt thats a real product shot; its too perfectly front on and the specular highlight on the glass is too perfect if it was reall the camera and the person holding the camera would be reflected in the glass. thats a CGI rendering (I have some experience in CGI). AHA 'USB LOD' huh cool i'm making one (a crystal cables picollino one) for myself at the moment. I got it charging; just need to work out the rest of the pinouts for syncing etc.


----------



## joneeboi

Hm. You learn something new every day. How are developments on your battery wires?


----------



## Cipher7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I haven't actually cased up his car again because I didn't have a dash kit at the time (still don't). I recommend he not drive the car when he needs to park for extended periods because I fear someone would be encouraged to steal the darn thing. Plus he's been bothering me to get him another USB+line out dock. Either way, it seems to be a pretty sweet deck. What more could I really want? Actually, having album art would be nice, but I suppose I can't have my cake at the same time. It was a pretty good buy from Best Buy. I wouldn't necessarily say it was my best buy, but it was quite good.




_

 

Is this for cars and if so, would anyone happen to know if I can install this on a Sienna??


----------



## joneeboi

What year is your Sienna? I used www.carstereohelp.com to find out how to open up my cars to get to the stereos. See if you can find your model at this link. Here's another resource once you get to the actual radio: 2008 Toyota Sienna Car Radio Wiring Color Codes


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm. You learn something new every day. How are developments on your battery wires?_

 

yeah I kmow its a bit nerdy feeling the need to point that stuff out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well I haven't actually got around to doing anything about the battery because there hasn't been any issue as yet (BTW is there any reason why I couldn't use an 850ma/h battery like those for the 60, 80gb 5.5G in my 30GB case I wouldn't mind getting better battery life with rockbox. it continues to work perfectly
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will only do it if I have to. I haven't done anything active with it yet (not that I ever really do; I use my iphone for that) but we'll see if it ever shakes loose.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah I kmow its a bit nerdy feeling the need to point that stuff out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well I haven't actually got around to doing anything about the battery because there hasn't been any issue as yet (BTW is there any reason why I couldn't use an 850ma/h battery like those for the 60, 80gb 5.5G in my 30GB case I wouldn't mind getting better battery life with rockbox. it continues to work perfectly
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will only do it if I have to. I haven't done anything active with it yet (not that I ever really do; I use my iphone for that) but we'll see if it ever shakes loose._

 

You can use any battery you want as long as the voltage is the same. If it will fit, then I would put in the highest capacity battery I could find 
 I also wouldn't stress too much about the connector. You could always solder the battery wire to wherever it is supposed to attach to the mainboard. I realize this isn't ideal, but you're already doing hardware hacks on it. Some players have had the batteries soldered to the board as part of their design. You don't have to worry about a different battery affecting the charging circuit. Again, as long as it is the same voltage (3.7V I believe?). I highly doubt they are using a timer system for the charging circuit, so they most likely use a "smart" system. Li-on batteries increase in resistance as they charge, so the charging circuit monitors the resistance and reduces the current when it reaches some threshold. That's how it can charge quickly and still allow you to leave it plugged in without damaging the battery. So the circuit won't care about the capacity of the battery. It will just feed it a quick charge current longer before switching to the maintenance or trickle charge current level.


----------



## XXII

I'm not a DIYer but I bought a DIYmod Ipod 4G from a local seller who had it modded by someone else. Can I ask:

 1) If the headphone out is still volume controlled by the Ipod that would have to imply that the headphone out is not modified right?

 2) To check what I received was the real deal, I opened the Ipod to see if there were any caps. Of course, it turns out that there was but it's not the "standard" design I see in some pictures in this thread. The caps are smaller and are positioned near the headphone out. Is this a common positioning for the caps and are these caps of lesser quality?


----------



## Lil' Knight

The diyMod doesn't mod the headphone out, only the lineout.

 The Black Gate is really tiny so I'm not sure if you have the "standard" one or not. The arrangement of wire and caps depends on the maker, there's no fixed position.

 Pics will be useful in this case.


----------



## XXII

Thanks for your answer.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The diyMod doesn't mod the headphone out, only the lineout._

 

So this is unlike the RWA imod. Am I correct?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pics will be useful in this case._

 

I should have taken pics but didn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...maybe next time that I open it.

 I've ordered a 1.8 IDE to CF card adaptor on ebay. Is there a brand of 32GB CF Card that's guaranteed to work with the Ipod?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not a DIYer but I bought a DIYmod Ipod 4G from a local seller who had it modded by someone else. Can I ask:

 1) If the headphone out is still volume controlled by the Ipod that would have to imply that the headphone out is not modified right?_

 

actually the 4G IMOD does mod the headphone out, so he could have done it the 'proper way' and yes lil knight is correct the blackgates are pretty small; the 47uf NXHQ which is the best for this purpose is about 5mmx6mm and a dark purply, blueish, blackish colour with rubicon written on it. If you're lucky he may have gone all the way and modded the HP out with better caps than standard; leaving the volume 'pot' untouched AND modded the lineout by taking the signal to the dock and then using that with a capped dock for superior output to what any caps that can fit inside will provide.

 but yes pics please. unytil you know whether the lineout has been modded, make sure you dont use it with anything that doesn't have some kind of input caps; whether in a capped dock or otherwise. Some amps have input caps built in so those are fine but if not the DC offset could ruin your gear.


----------



## XXII

Thanks qusp, I was confused because the seller told me that the headphone out was modded yet the volume control still works. Perhaps he was referring to what you were talking about.

 The problem with taking pictures is that the caps are somehow attached (glued?) to the part with the headphone out with some wire connecting them to the main board. This means that it's not straightforward to detach the back of the Ipod completely in order to take photos. I will try next time I take the cover off.


----------



## XXII

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but yes pics please. unytil you know whether the lineout has been modded, make sure you dont use it with anything that doesn't have some kind of input caps; whether in a capped dock or otherwise. Some amps have input caps built in so those are fine but if not the DC offset could ruin your gear._

 

Well it works with a normal line out so I guess the internal caps are attached properly.


----------



## Cipher7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What year is your Sienna? I used www.carstereohelp.com to find out how to open up my cars to get to the stereos. See if you can find your model at this link. Here's another resource once you get to the actual radio: 2008 Toyota Sienna Car Radio Wiring Color Codes_

 

I have a 2005 Toyota Sienna and the receiver in that car is messed up. If what i'm seeing seems pretty straight forward, I might give it a try. What do you think?

 Edit: Just looked at your first link and clicked on a sample guide, and it shows a very good detailed instruction on how to remove the door speakers, is it the same style when removing the center receiver? The second link doesn't seem to be of much help, and the third one, well I don't know how to use that website for now... will I need on a 2005 sienna?

 Thanks for your help and the links!


----------



## suicidal_orange

XXII I was in a similar situation to you regarding caps and had this rather scary reply from joneeboi. Seems it working isn't enough to guarantee you're not doing damage, so best to check what you have. I haven't been brave enough to try with nice sensitive headphones since that reply!


----------



## XXII

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *suicidal_orange* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_XXII I was in a similar situation to you regarding caps and had this rather scary reply from joneeboi. Seems it working isn't enough to guarantee you're not doing damage, so best to check what you have. I haven't been brave enough to try with nice sensitive headphones since that reply!_

 

Well I did open my DIYmod and I saw what I thought were BG caps. I have no electronic experience so I have no idea if what I saw was the right caps.


----------



## Seaningtime

Hey, sorry if this has been asked already, but if I do the DYImod to a 5.5g ipod just like Aaron Lee's guide will I still be able to use the headphone jack normally??
 On his guide it says it will bypass that, but what I'm hearing is that it doesnt affect the headphone jack at all


----------



## suicidal_orange

Seaningtime: if you follow the pics on the first page (figure D's) the headphone out is untouched. It's a handy backup if you forget to charge your amp!


----------



## Seaningtime

awesome!
 Ok, now since there needs to be a capacitor, does it really matter where it is as long as it is between the ipod and the source?
 I.E. could I just cut the cable in my car and put a capacitor in halfway? Seems much easier than fitting it into the ipod connector, and since it is always in my car it won't be an eyesore
 Thanks for the help orange!


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it works with a normal line out so I guess the internal caps are attached properly._

 

by telling you not to use it with anything without input caps, I didn't mean try it out on all your gear to see if it works!!! thats why I warned you because it will still give you audio but may very well be killing your amp with DC; you cant here DC offset, its the silent killer


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seaningtime* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_awesome!
 Ok, now since there needs to be a capacitor, does it really matter where it is as long as it is between the ipod and the source?
 I.E. could I just cut the cable in my car and put a capacitor in halfway? Seems much easier than fitting it into the ipod connector, and since it is always in my car it won't be an eyesore
 Thanks for the help orange!_

 

yeah man that would work fine; as long as the signal passes through a cap (each channel) before it reaches the amp you wont ruin your gear with DC offset.


----------



## Seaningtime

That's great news, thanks qusp!
 Now I just have to wait for my ipod in the mail so that I can do this mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Just bought an ipod classic in the summer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess that's going to waste)


----------



## blippster

Managed to get my third diyMod done yesterday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Had to get another one after losing the first after having sold the other.. Lifted a few pads on the original motherboard of this unit due to not being used to the stiffness of the solid core copper wire, and had to wait for a new board to arrive. Thankfully that's all behind now!

 Again, a big thank you to joneeboi for the thread and aaronylee for his guide - both have been invaluable to me


----------



## bidoux

What gen is it ?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Look at the click-wheel.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it works with a normal line out so I guess the internal caps are attached properly._

 

A modded line out will still "work" without the caps, but you can damage your gear. This is a warning you shouldn't ignore if you are fond of your headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you have access to a multi meter? If so, just measure the voltage across the 3.5mm plug on your LOD. ~20mV is the limit most folks feel comfortable with.


----------



## XXII

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have access to a multi meter? If so, just measure the voltage across the 3.5mm plug on your LOD. ~20mV is the limit most folks feel comfortable with._

 

I do have a multimeter....but I don't know exactly where to connect it to the 3.5mm plug. If someone could advise...Sorry for my utter ignorance!


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do have a multimeter....but I don't know exactly where to connect it to the 3.5mm plug. If someone could advise...Sorry for my utter ignorance! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

across the ground and signal rings. ground is the first ring while left channel is the tip and right is the middle. put your meter in DC voltage mode and set it to the appropriate range. if you measure across the ground and left channel for instance you should get no more than ~20mV. so put one end (usually the black probe '-' or common) on the ground and one on the left channel (red '+'). hmmmm. nah you'll be ok 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope


----------



## RinksCustoms

Allow me to elab. Following the picture in the first post for the short & wide Nano where you thought the LOUT/ROUT would be, i attached very small Magnet wire (radioshack), to the DAC side of the caps, ran them to the dock connector, which i then ended up solider bridging about five of the pins, but that's another story. I would love to tell you how well the mod went for me, and how much better the sound output is on my 2.2kW car stereo, but this isn't the case. I think i bricked it pokin around with my O-scope looking for audio near your suspected DAC. And i did find audio, on both sides of the board. I believe i accidentally shorted two pins on the memory chip while the ipod was apart and running, but that was my fault. Read through most of the thread, (149 pages guys?!), and didn't come across any relevant info, so here are at least a few conclusions of where the audio actually is on the board...

 See attached pics, hope this helps someone out trying this... They say education costs money.

 BTW, Taking suggestions which ipod worked best with this mod, will consider buying a nice one if my nano 4GB doesn't wake back up.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RinksCustoms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, Taking suggestions which ipod worked best with this mod, will consider buying a nice one if my nano 4GB doesn't wake back up._

 

the 5.5G ipod video is the best for this mod; its the most modern ipod that we have a definite process for. and it sounds great; quite a nice DAC


----------



## XXII

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_across the ground and signal rings. ground is the first ring while left channel is the tip and right is the middle. put your meter in DC voltage mode and set it to the appropriate range. if you measure across the ground and left channel for instance you should get no more than ~20mV. so put one end (usually the black probe '-' or common) on the ground and one on the left channel (red '+'). hmmmm. nah you'll be ok 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope_

 

Turns out my multimeter doesn't do millivolts so I need to get another one! Thanks for your help.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Turns out my multimeter doesn't do millivolts so I need to get another one! Thanks for your help._

 

no problem


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RinksCustoms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See attached pics, hope this helps someone out trying this... They say education costs money.

 BTW, Taking suggestions which ipod worked best with this mod, will consider buying a nice one if my nano 4GB doesn't wake back up._

 

That's excellent work, RinksCustoms. Of course, my heart goes out to you for your late iPod nano, but thank you for taking the first step on this one. You've found the elements that actually carry sound on them, so I'm going to have to change the front page. Thanks for your work, and again, sorry to hear about your iPod.

 On that note, it depends on what you're looking for in your iPod/future diyMod. I have always liked the nano 1G. Then again, we don't have a diyMod nano 2G yet, so...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I echo what qusp said though. I like the 5.5G for being the last iPod to have survived Apple's crippleware. (I thank God my girlfriend went from a nano 2G 4GB to a 5G 60GB instead of the 7G 120GB, on my advice of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm so lucky to have her.) Plus, it has expandable memory, rather, a replaceable hard drive. Look around head-fi and the general interweb for plenty of hard drive swaps taking place in the 5G/5.5G. There's the CF mod, 100GB and 120GB drives, and even the theoretical 240GB hard drive you can try on if you like. Or if you want to kick it old school, the iPod photo has a nice look and feel to it. The world is your oyster.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seaningtime* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_awesome!
 Ok, now since there needs to be a capacitor, does it really matter where it is as long as it is between the ipod and the source?
 I.E. could I just cut the cable in my car and put a capacitor in halfway? Seems much easier than fitting it into the ipod connector, and since it is always in my car it won't be an eyesore
 Thanks for the help orange!_

 

That would work, but I would question how much of an effect this mod would have when you connect it to a car stereo. I suppose you could hear the difference on a very high fidelity system, but IMHO this mod's improvement is subtle enough that it requires careful scrutiny via headphones.

 Now if you want to use the line out with the car AND an amp, then adding caps to the car's interconnect is a great idea. I play my iPod through my Camry's aux port, but I just made a male/female IC and use the same short capped LOD that I use with portable amps.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do have a multimeter....but I don't know exactly where to connect it to the 3.5mm plug. If someone could advise...Sorry for my utter ignorance! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just like Qusp said. The tip is left, the ring is right, and the sleeve is ground. FYI, these are called TRS connectors for tip, ring, sleeve. I find it easy to remember by thinking of the sleeve as the base or ground. It seems intuitive to me since it is near the housing of the connector. I dunno why, but that seems to me like the place the ground should be  Ring and right both have R's, so that one is easy. Which just leave the tip, so that must be left. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Connect your meter from the ground to each channel and measure the offsets on both. Again ~20mV is as much as you want to see. If you see more, those caps probably aren't wired correctly. Even if you see less then 20mV, it doesn't mean they are wired correctly, but it does mean you're unlikely to damage any equipment. They probably ARE wired correctly, but it's usually better safe then sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still, if you open it back up again, take a lot of pictures and show them here. Someone will be able to tell if it is done correctly.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RinksCustoms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Allow me to elab. Following the picture in the first post for the short & wide Nano where you thought the LOUT/ROUT would be, i attached very small Magnet wire (radioshack), to the DAC side of the caps, ran them to the dock connector, which i then ended up solider bridging about five of the pins, but that's another story. I would love to tell you how well the mod went for me, and how much better the sound output is on my 2.2kW car stereo, but this isn't the case. I think i bricked it pokin around with my O-scope looking for audio near your suspected DAC. And i did find audio, on both sides of the board. I believe i accidentally shorted two pins on the memory chip while the ipod was apart and running, but that was my fault. Read through most of the thread, (149 pages guys?!), and didn't come across any relevant info, so here are at least a few conclusions of where the audio actually is on the board...

 See attached pics, hope this helps someone out trying this... They say education costs money.

 BTW, Taking suggestions which ipod worked best with this mod, will consider buying a nice one if my nano 4GB doesn't wake back up._

 

Is that the new Nano? I don't recall anyone modding one yet, and, yes, I've read this whole thread 

 As to which is best. The 4th gen has room for the caps inside, so that one is popular. The 5th gen can fit them inside too if you replace the HD with a CF card, so that's a plus in it's favor. Those 2 models also contain the Wolfson DAC that is pretty highly regarded. I haven't heard quite as many accolades for some of the DACs Apple has used in more recent models. If I recall correctly, they stopped using Wolfsons after the Videos and 2nd gen Nanos. I'd have to look it up though to be sure.


----------



## RinksCustoms

Just tried to reboot again... nothing. Need parts ?(less a logic board of course, lol). Had another thought on the "fat" nano, with 4GB, hell even 8GB capacity at lossless bit rates, (which i don't think it supports it anyway), you wouldn't exactly have a whole lotta room for lossless files. Which is what this mod was originally aimed at i believe... I will probably purchase a 5G or a 5.5G, running lines out from the pod doesn't phase me since most of the time it'll reside in my car.


----------



## gueri_fr

Hi!

 Some news about my CF-modded diyMod iPod. It works well. I use it with the Pico headphone amp (very nice little amp). I made my new dock cable with mogami wires. I used a electrical clamp to fix the wires on the dock connector. The connector and the clamp are glued together so the wires are secure. My leather bag is very useful with two inside pockets: one for the amp and one for the ipod  I think the ATH ESW9 will be my next headphone.
 DiyMod for life!


























 gueri


----------



## Lil' Knight

Use the heat gun. It's far easier than using that tape.


----------



## joneeboi

Excellent work, gueri_fr! That's what we like to see around here, people sharing their diyMod successes. That's a nice shot of the inside of your dock. I'd show you the inside of my most recent iPod LOD/USB cable, but I'm embarrassed of the sloppiness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also use a zip-tie with my docks; that's a nice touch. I personally use either pins 15/16 or 29/30 for ground to help with the neatness and ease of soldering. To prevent pin breakage, I also leave a little more cable in the dock before the zip tie. I've had a few docks stop working on me due pins breaking because they were tugged just a little too hard. Finally, I only use the dock that snaps shut. If I ever need to service it, I like to be able to open it and mess around inside again. Just my two bits for anyone who'll take it.


----------



## krisio06

Hi!
 I have iPod 5,5g with broken headphone output and I decided to made myself DIY iMod..
 First- respect for all people who made this and aspecialy joneeboi..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 When I saw this article:*» DIY iMod iPod*
 I found out that job is not very difficult to make but I don't understand one major thing..
 When the author of the artilce says:
 "The goal is, of course, to tap the line out in the dock and run it to those nice shiny capacitors that you just bought."
 Yeah I saw in parts list Black Gate but I don't really understand where to solder them..
 Could you give me some pictures for help..

 Cheers..


----------



## joneeboi

Typically, one runs the signal from the DAC to the dock as shown in the pictures on post 1 and then puts the Black Gates inside the dock connector. Just take gueri_fr's dock up there and throw the Black Gates inside. You would solder the signal from the dock pin to the positive lead of the capacitor and from the negative lead, you send the signal to the amplifier. However, there are different arrangements. Take gueri_fr again for example. In his diyMod, he swapped out his HDD and put in a compact flash card. That way he could put the capacitors inside the iPod. Ramblingman drilled a hole in his back plate and attached his amp and capacitors to the back of his diyMod. These are only three examples. Do what pleases you best.


----------



## gueri_fr

Thank you joneeboi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also use a zip-tie with my docks; that's a nice touch. I personally use either pins 15/16 or 29/30 for ground to help with the neatness and ease of soldering. To prevent pin breakage, I also leave a little more cable in the dock before the zip tie. I've had a few docks stop working on me due pins breaking because they were tugged just a little too hard. Finally, I only use the dock that snaps shut. If I ever need to service it, I like to be able to open it and mess around inside again. Just my two bits for anyone who'll take it._

 

Yes, there are several ways to make it. With mine, if it's clamped strongly and glued, the wires are very secure. I had no other dock connector to test another solution.


----------



## joneeboi

It's all good, gueri. There will always be other LODs, other diyMods. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just ordered another set of dock connectors from Ridax. They have a slim one that's meant for iPhone that snaps shut, so I'm going to see what that's like. I also got his Breakout/Extender board. Checking the voltages and resistances on the pins will be much easier now. Maybe it'll help me figure out how to get rid of that cursed "This accessory is not made to work with iPhone" message. *fingers crossed*

 Also, I added a link to a capacitor comparison thread by Jon L on OP. Enjoy.


----------



## krisio06

I'll buy Black Gate's because they have good value for maney and they are not hard to buy in my location....
 I took a look on gueri_fr's dock and it's possible the best way to go but..
 Is enough space in this dock to put capacitors in there?
 Is that the right dock conector? javascript<b></b>opupWindow('http://www.qables.com/shop/index.php]http://www.qables.com/shop/index.php...shop/index.php
 And finally.. Could you reconmend me a not expensive but good cable for dock connector form Qables.com..


----------



## Lil' Knight

You can fit the blackgates in the square, big dock. The round one is possible but a little bit more difficult.

 For first DIY job, I suggest using some cheap but nice wire such as Mogami 2534 or Canare Starquad. They are very easy to work.


----------



## krisio06

I've done some basic DIY jobs.. A couple of interconnets and not very hard potrable amp but I have never face up with dock connector..
 Could you give me a picture of a dock connector with BG caps in it?
 Sorry for my silly questions...


----------



## Lil' Knight

I don't take any pics of my docks but this thread might be useful for you:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/my-...beware-259257/


----------



## krisio06

Can I do something like showed on the picture..
http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?i...wowiresop9.jpg
 Black Gates- purpule circles on this picture..


----------



## joneeboi

Unfortunately, no, the Black Gates won't fit there. That position is just underneath the face plate, so there is maybe a millimeter or two of clearance, if even that. You could still put Black Gates there, just drill some holes in the face plate and you're good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I personally don't like glue-required docks like the one you linked from Qables. Get their snap style dock. If shipping price becomes an issue, check out Ridax. I'm not sure what shipping is usually like to Poland.

 And for the picture you requested (though I'm not sure it's exactly what you were looking for)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




:


----------



## Lil' Knight

Look very neat


----------



## krisio06

Quote:


 And for the picture you requested (though I'm not sure it's exactly what you were looking for) 
 

unfortunately, no..

 I was also looking for the pin configuration for the dock and I found this:Apple iPod and iPhone dock interfaces pinout and signals @ pinouts.ru..
 The ground pin is second, isn't it?

 I'd like to buy dock connector from Qables because my friend buys from there often..

 Can I put those capacitors like it is on the picture above?
 Capacitors- purple colour...


----------



## joneeboi

You can find ground on pins 1, 2, 15, 16, 29 and 30.

 And I don't think there's a patent yet on that type of capped dock configuration. Maybe I'm wrong. I'll snap a picture and show you how I did my capped dock, but after midterms of course.


----------



## krisio06

@joneeboi- thanks you kindly..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could put the Black Gate into the iPod and solder them in the wires which connect poles above the DAC and inductors poles..
ImageShack - Hosting :: twowiresop9.jpg
 Capacitors- purple colour...

 Could I do something like this?


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *krisio06* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@joneeboi- thanks you kindly..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could put the Black Gate into the iPod and solder them in the wires which connect poles above the DAC and inductors poles..
ImageShack - Hosting :: twowiresop9.jpg
 Capacitors- purple colour...

 Could I do something like this?_

 

Are you saying you want to solder some SMD caps inline where you put the purple marks? I suppose you could do that, but a SMD cap won't sound as good as a high quality audio cap. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the purple is for in the image or I'm misunderstanding what you're asking.

 Are you saying you will put the caps inside the iPod and then connect them to the wires where you put the purple marks? You could, but if you're putting the caps inside the iPod, that would change how you would route the wires.


----------



## krisio06

Not SMD's caps, I was thinking about Black Gate Caps..
 Not exacly where i put the purple marks but inline.. 
 That picture was to show you my idea..


----------



## joneeboi

You put the capacitors in line with the DAC, but you can't put them inside the faceplate of the iPod. If you put the Black Gates after the dock, it works out the same as putting it between the DAC and the L2/L3 pads minus the problem of figuring out where to put the caps. I won't say you can't do it, but it'd be more difficult figuring out how than going with the tried and true method we've all come to know and love. It is DIY after all.


----------



## Polacchini

Hi guys. I've been watching this thread closely for some time now. I have an iPhone 1st gen, and I'm willing to take it apart for the good of the DIY community! Well... sorta... I've already did so.

 I thought I was VERY unlucky when I did the hardware unlock (1.1.2 OTB 4.6BL), just to find that 10 days later the soft unlock for my firmware was finally released.

 Well... the tide has changed now, so, as my iPhone's case ia a little messed up, I have nothing to lose if I open it again (well... you never know when you'll short something, so ok, maybe I have something to lose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 I've ordered some parts needed for the mod... They'll probably arrive within the next few days, so I'm gathering as much info as I can get before having at it.

 I have a few questions to Jon (and to anyone willing to contribute) regarding the iphone's internals:

 Are you sure that the line out output on the iphone uses ROUT2 and LOUT2? OUT3 and OUT4 are used to drive the internal speaker then? I'm a little concerned about removing the wrong caps and frying my little speaker 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does anyone knows where are the (or if there's any) final caps and inductors (like the ipod 5.5g) to be removed near the dock's ribbon cable connector pins?

 I'm linking some hi-res pics that have been useful for me:

pic1
pic2
pic3
pic4

 Thanks in advance for any help


----------



## Hayduke

Why do you have a board with no parts?!?!


----------



## joneeboi

Those pictures are flaming awesome, Polacchini! They just confirmed the correct pins for the iPhone. I wouldn't recommend removing the capacitors however, not in the iPhone and not in the 5G/5.5G. If you leave them in, it makes for easier soldering and a more solid connection in the end. Thank you very much for those photos. That's insane. I was actually thinking of getting my diyPhone done when I had time to get it done in one shot (so I wouldn't have to go without it for too long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but you beat me to it.

 I couldn't tell you exactly which output from the WM8758 goes to the speaker, but I don't think it's the line out signal since you can control the volume. Of course, there could be some sort of software switching that enables the line out's volume control when there is nothing connected to the dock and disables it when there is something connected. Either way, solder your wires to the Z capacitors again (LOUT2 at pin 25, ROUT2 at pin 23) and send them to the dock. I haven't seen what the dock even looks like underneath it all, but I hope and pray it's something similar to what we've seen before. If not, we'll figure it out, won't we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good day for the thread.


----------



## Polacchini

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I haven't seen what the dock even looks like underneath it all, but I hope and pray it's something similar to what we've seen before. If not, we'll figure it out, won't we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

LOL, I hope so. The dock connector is linked to the logic board via a 45-pin ribbon cable connector (The tough part is that I have no idea what pins to solder to). Pins 3 and 4 must be easy to find if I disassemble the phone, but I'm afraid there may be no conductor on the ribbon cable for pins 14 and 17. That would be perfect for this mod.

 The dock connector is located in the upper right corner on the underside of the logic board:
pic1
 I've attached a ribbon cable pic too.

 Maybe there's a way to drill a hole on the black dock assembly and route the wires directly to the dock pins, bypassing the ribbon cable. Well... we'll find a way somehow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Why do you have a board with no parts?!?!_

 

lol, it's not mine

 Sorry, forgot to put the pic's credits 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Î¼blog: engineering from the trenches » iPhone PCB scans

 Here it is.


----------



## joneeboi

I was thinking of sending the wires straight to the dock. Is there a way to open up that portion of the iPhone? iFixit doesn't have any photos of the dock either, so the only way we'll know what to solder to is if we can get a photo of the internals. I'm not even sure how that part would even open up. Maybe I should just look into it on my iPhone.


----------



## Hayduke

Is the DAC in the iPhone on par with that of the 5th Gens in regards to SQ?

 Only 16GB is a potential issue though as I like to listen to lossless. hmmmm I do like the idea of combining 2 devices and still maintaining a quality signal to feed an amp and headphones.


----------



## joneeboi

I haven't extensively compared the sounds of the video and the iPhone pre-3G, but consider they are the same chip. Now, yes, of course, the same chip can sound different in a different circuit, and everyone's setups sound different. Nevertheless, I will say that I liked the sound of the iPhone's headphone jack through my modded SR60s over any of the iPods I've owned or listened to. My switch to the iPhone was more pragmatic than audiophilically ideal. My plan when I have some disposable income is to use the iPhone for on-the-go listening (unamped through KSC75s and maybe the PX100 someday) and have a 5.5G 80GB for home use. My library sits only at ~12 GB at 320 kbps LAME MP3, but I'm fine with listening to MP3 over lossless. Whenever I did get that 5.5G, I would manage two libraries for the sake of lossless. But until that day comes...

 I'm of the camp that doesn't pay all that much attention to their music when going portable. I listen to music to fill up the silence on the train or when I'm studying, but hard listening is something I only do at home. I don't mind going unamped, though the iPhone doesn't go all that loud with the KSC75s. I've been forced to employ playlists with this device as opposed to carrying my entire library with me. I normally prefer not to have to choose the music I want to listen to and not have some selections I feel like listening out of the blue, but it's something that has been imposed on me by the forces of practicality. I'm an album collector by nature, so my albums are normally my playlists. There's nothing really holding me back from making full use of playlists besides laziness.

 So, um, yeah, the iPhone might sound the same as the 5.5G.


----------



## qusp

very interesting indeed!!! i'm loving my DIYMOD 5.5G but i'm also very keen to do the iphone as I have stated before. BTW guys I managed to do the low profile blackgate LOD will post pics in a minute. its still A bit ghetto because I havent put the custom casing on the switchcraft RA mini. at the moment its just exposed wires connected to the 'head' of the mini because the switchcraft body is too chunky to be used stock in my setup.


----------



## qusp

hey ya go, for those who are interested here is some pics of my latest blackgate LOD. I should've taken some pics while in progress. None of the casings available will allow caps like this, so I just used the pin assembly from a standard slim/medium dock connector and formed a housing out of epoxy putty. I used the switchcraft RA mini because I feel it is a far superior plug than the neutrik I just have to make my own body. the wire is coaxial crystal cables piccolino 7N silver/gold stranded wire. the caps are the standard small 47uf NX hiQ blackgates. the cable isn't finished here because I loved the sound so much I was keen to get it burned in ASAP and its on its way, the caps are on their way to being set now at about 35hrs (blackgates don't take TOOOO long IMO) the bass in tightening up and the soundstage opening up.

 i'll be building another one soon so will take pics of the process and post a thread just for it.














 as you can see the dock casing isn't as compact as it is without caps but still quite compact; smaller than what it appears in the last couple of shots because of the macro lens and close-up. the first pic is closer to the actual size but still a bit larger than life, but it takes my DIYMOD rig to another level of portabilty. the wire is extremely flexible so is very low profile. the mini is also a little beat up as I salvaged it from another mini to mini cable and did an average but sufficient job of desoldering and cleaning it up. all it needs now is the epoxy mini body and a couple of coats of enamel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 even now in its current state it is my favorite LOD by far.


----------



## Polacchini

Great work, qusp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jon, take a look at this: (notice the small pcb under the dock)

Original Charger Ribbon Flex Cable for Apple Iphone 

 Maybe I'll buy one of these and learn how to disassemble the black plastic covering the dock. Then maybe we can solder the wires to the pins and find a way to route the wires. 

 Stay tuned


----------



## joneeboi

Good stuff, Polacchini. Good stuff indeed.

 I'm not sure if you're aware of iFixit, but they have disassembly guides for iPods, Macbooks and iPhones. It's actually pretty simple to snap off the black cover, it seems. Mine's just covered in a BestSkinEver which is my excuse for not having popped it off already. =T


----------



## Polacchini

oops, I meant not the black wi-fi antenna cover, but the big plastic piece covering the dock's internals.I believe that the only thing that's keeping us from doing this mod is learning a way to drill a little hole in the big plastic dock thing and route the wires there.

 I've ordered both 30 and 34awg solid core silver wire for this mod. I hope it's thin enough for the job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, I've just placed an order on the ribbon cable + dock. Shipping may take a while, but as soon as it arrives I'll let you know.

 Good luck for us all


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Polacchini* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oops, I meant not the black wi-fi antenna cover, but the big plastic piece covering the dock's internals.I believe that the only thing that's keeping us from doing this mod is learning a way to drill a little hole in the big plastic dock thing and route the wires there.

 I've ordered both 30 and 34awg solid core silver wire for this mod. I hope it's thin enough for the job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, I've just placed an order on the ribbon cable + dock. Shipping may take a while, but as soon as it arrives I'll let you know.

 Good luck for us all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

should be thin enough, I used 33AWG cardas silver tonearm wire with no problems at all without really having to think to much about how I routed it because it was so thin, but its stranded enamel coated silver wire, as far as I can tell its the most appropriate. you'll have to be careful with that thin in solid core; it'll be really fragile and wont respond well to bending back and forth trying to work out what the best way to route it is and you don't want it to snap half way through the job after soldering it to the pads etc. so best to try routing with another piece of wire, but not connected to work out the best way to do it. then do the mod carefully following that plan. the saying measure twice, act once will apply

 I apologize if you've already worked with that wire before and know what you're in for.


----------



## joneeboi

Keep us updated, Polacchino. I'll do what I can to support your venture. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry to just jump over your post, qusp. That's an amazing dock you put together. I've seen a few other epoxy docks (epocks?) and it's quite interesting how it fits so well. How sturdy is the epoxy as a casing option?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Keep us updated, Polacchino. I'll do what I can to support your venture. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry to just jump over your post, qusp. That's an amazing dock you put together. I've seen a few other epoxy docks (epocks?) and it's quite interesting how it fits so well. How sturdy is the epoxy as a casing option?_

 

no problem jon, I can take rejection
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know its no iphone mod. nah but seriously; with the epoxy, I've made quite a few myself, in fact all the low profile I make use it now. as far as sturdiness, it depends on the brand of putty you use; its all pretty good, but some is stronger than others. the tamiya brand is pretty tough (as long as you get the fine one with 2 putties that you mix together)that was the first one I used and since its actually SOLID epoxy, kind-of like you filled the casing with epoxy glue except its all in one piece with no seam, its actually pretty durable; there are a couple of types that are only average and will chip/break easily because they're only designed for making,repairing toy soldiers etc
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but the best brand is called milliput superfine and its turned out to be amazing, its superhard and you can sand it down to an amazing smooth finish. its solid as a rock; much harder than the plastic of the regular dock casing. It's not cheap (about $20AUD a pack) but you can make at least 40-50 docks with one pack. You wont find these brands at your local hardware store, they're used by RC CAR enthusiasts and model makers mainly, i'm lucky enough to have a model and RC superstore just down the road and I get glue, paint of all sorts, finishing abrasives that are soooo fine; and this stuff. It takes about 3 hours to cure to the point where you can carve/sand it into shape and about 12 to become rock hard. the wire is pretty darn special as well, but I wont go into that; its embarrassingly expensive and those who know crystal Cables will know what I mean. def the best wire I've worked with though, this dock is gonna be near indestructible when its finished.

 hehe epoch I like that


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## joneeboi

That's all very interesting. I've only ever known about 30-minute and 5-minute epoxy. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's all very interesting. I've only ever known about 30-minute and 5-minute epoxy. Thanks for sharing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

no problem: yeah thats epoxy glue you're thinking of, which is usually two liquids that you mix together. this stuff isn't glue, the glue sets into a clear substance.; although this does bond very well. this is epoxy putty: 2 putties which you kneed together like plastic explosive (not personal experience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) this sets into a solid white smooth consistency just like plastic; because it is plastic. then you sand/carve it back and finish it with whatever finish you like; acrylic, enamel etc


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## bidoux

Hello,

 I am going to try the DIYmod for my ipod mini. I need caps but I don't know the name of these.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 It is just for now, after I'll try auricap and blackgates
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And if anyone knows the name in French it would be great!


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## joneeboi

Those are caps CAvanessia grabbed from, I think, Radio Shack. I haven't any idea what they are, but I'm sure you're better off going with the more familiar audio capacitors mentioned around these here parts.


----------



## bidoux

I won't find auricaps at my local store and propably not black-gates.
 What are the most common caps to use with DIYmod ?


----------



## qusp

blackgates (47uf NX hiQ or NX 100uf) for inside the case of 4G and 5G ipods (wont fit in the mini though) also BG (47uf NX hiQ or NX 100uf) for inside dock connectors. and for high end capped docks you can use any reputable brand, but Vcap (TFTF and VIOP), mundorf (SGIO or SIO), auricap, audionote if you are crazy or rich enough... the list goes on. the most common is blackgate though because they are great sounding and small witha reasonable price as well. just today I ordered myself some VCAP VIOP 3.3UF to use in a hammond case with piccolino wire. i'm putting several inputs and outputs on it too. adding TFTF VCVAP later down the track when the aussie dollar picks up a bit

 IN

 dock hardwired with piccolino
 eichmann chassis mounted RCA's
 chassis mounted mini

 OUT

 piccolino w/switchcraft mini
 eichmann RCA
 chassis mounted female mini

 this dock is also going to be used with the bantam dac that i'm building plus any other DIY project that needs output coupling caps; thats why i'm putting all the I/O i'm leaving out the signal coupling caps in the bantam build and instead passing the signal onto this jack of all trades


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

I'm kinda of new to this iMod thing and I'm really interested. I currently have a 1st Gen iPod Mini that I'd like to use. My question is what's better and is it worth the hassle:

*Analog Signal from Line-Out*
 In this case, I would just make a LOD cable and add some BG's between the L/R & GRD. THen just send the signal to my CMoY. Simple! 

*Analog Signal from DAC to Dock Connector*
 In this case, I would have to internally wire from the DAC straight to a "free" dock pin for both the L/R signals. Then build a LOD that would use those "free" pins & GRD, and of course add some BG's (inside it's cramped).

 I guess what I'm asking is directly wiring to the dock connector really make a huge difference vs. just grabbing from the OE line-outs (of course using the same caps)? It really seems like a PITA to solder wire inside the mini, plus you'd need to remove some caps and inductors inside?


----------



## joneeboi

You wouldn't necessarily have to desolder anything from the logic board. It seems to make more of a headache and unnecessary risk of logic board bricking when desoldering those components. I'm thinking now that just about every diyMod should just short the components while leaving them on the board; the same would apply to your mini 1G. Depending on the wire, you could short the capacitors and inductors and just use the regular old pins 3 and 4 for audio output. ruZZ.il did this on his nano, but I wouldn't do it myself. You lose the versatility of switching in other LODs, say at a meet, and you'd have to go through the trouble of soldering to those itty bitty pins. Of course, do what you like since it's your *diy*Mod.


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You wouldn't necessarily have to desolder anything from the logic board. It seems to make more of a headache and unnecessary risk of logic board bricking when desoldering those components. I'm thinking now that just about every diyMod should just short the components while leaving them on the board; the same would apply to your mini 1G. Depending on the wire, you could short the capacitors and inductors and just use the regular old pins 3 and 4 for audio output. ruZZ.il did this on his nano, but I wouldn't do it myself. You lose the versatility of switching in other LODs, say at a meet, and you'd have to go through the trouble of soldering to those itty bitty pins. Of course, do what you like since it's your *diy*Mod._

 

Well that's what I'm wondering, is it "really" worth the hassle of soldering in a bypass from the DAC to the dock conector? Or just using the line-out pins with appropriate caps.


----------



## RinksCustoms

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bmwpowere36m3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well that's what I'm wondering, is it "really" worth the hassle of soldering in a bypass from the DAC to the dock conector? Or just using the line-out pins with appropriate caps._

 

the line outs -as far as an EE can see- still pass through multiple R/C & L/C filters as well as some kind of follower amp before it reaches the docking connector. So yes would be a good answer to that one..


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RinksCustoms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the line outs -as far as an EE can see- still pass through multiple R/C & L/C filters as well as some kind of follower amp before it reaches the docking connector. So yes would be a good answer to that one.._

 

Nice I like that answer. So my next question is what's the best way to route L/R signals from the DAC to the dock connector? Do I just wire in a bypass and leave the caps and inductors on the board or do I remove them and then wire direct DAC dock connector?

 I really don't like asking what seems like simple questions, but this thread is huge and I could only find one example of a mini.


----------



## joneeboi

I'd go with shorting the caps and inductors. Put the caps in the dock.


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd go with shorting the caps and inductors. Put the caps in the dock._

 

So basically removing the caps & inductors and soldering the bypass between the cap pads and the inductor pads, correct?

 I'm assuming I will lose audio thru the headphone jack when doing this. Any pics or posts that would aid me in locating these components to remove and bypass, thanks.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bmwpowere36m3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So basically removing the caps & inductors and soldering the bypass between the cap pads and the inductor pads, correct?

 I'm assuming I will lose audio thru the headphone jack when doing this. Any pics or posts that would aid me in locating these components to remove and bypass, thanks._

 

The line out path to the dock and the headphone out are separate, so this mod won't affect your headphone out.

 I think what Joneboi is advocating is that you NOT remove any components. When you remove the SMD devices, there is a risk of damaging the mainboard, so he is suggesting that you simply bridge them. For example, solder a small piece of wire, or maybe a resistor lead, around the caps and inductors. Essentially you create another path around the component. This would make your changes easier to "undo" if you later want to.

 I'm not sure I agree with this method though. I understand that it will basically provide an alternative "path of least resistance" so the signal bypasses the internal component between the DAC and the dock. Joneboi, are you then also suggesting not to run a wire from the DAC to the dock? I thought the reason for removing the SMD components was to break that signal path, and then we added the wire to provide a "cleaner" path. So the traces, extra solder joints, and the bridges won't adversely affect the signal? If this is what you're thinking, you might be right. Maybe my reservations are just a psychological effect  It seems like using my nice SPC wire will be better


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd go with shorting the caps and inductors. Put the caps in the dock._

 

I've got this much so far:






 Removing C53 & C54, then what's going on in that "mine-field" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's labeled accordingly (Start Top Left): 

_____L6____L7___L8___L9___L10__L11___L12__L13

 R76__C68__C69__C70__C71__C72__C73__C74__C75

 So I connect from the "top" pads of C53 & C54 to what (maintaining Pin 3,4 Line-out)?


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Well I desoldered what I hope were the right components (C53, C54, L7, L8, C69, & C70). So now where do I connected the upper cap pads to? Also using a solid copper wire good, 30 AWG?


----------



## joneeboi

Do you have a digital multimeter? In the mini 2G I had, you sent the signal to L7 and L8 as FallenAngel showed us.

*FallenAngel's diyMod mini 2G*
 Notice the destination of the wires at L7 and L8





 It could be different in the mini 1G, so you'd have to double check the continuity to be completely sure.


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Well I checked it out:






 Squares:
 RED (C53) - Right Line-Out from DAC (~1.7ohms)
 BLUE (C54) - Left Line-Out from DAC (~1.7ohms)

 YELLOW (C69) - Dock Connector Pin 3
 MAGENTA (C70) - Dock Connector Pin 4

 So basically I just going to jump C53 to C69 and C54 to C70. Having removed the inductors and capacitors, from the line-out signal now leaves me in quandary. Looking a the Wolfson Datasheet, they show that this is how the "line-outs" should be connected before going to anything (amp or earphones):






 Most iMods i've seen hear, IIRC, only use the coupling caps and not the resistors...

 However when I measure between C53 and GRD (same with C54 and GRD) I'm reading ~100K ohms. And how does for coupling caps, BG NX 47uF bypassed with a (either Russian PIO or Vitamin Q) .047uF!


----------



## Seaningtime

hey guys I have a question for you

 Ok, so I have been browsing this board and I was really interested in doing the mod myself. Unfortunately I only had an iPod classic which wouldn't work, so I went and bought a 5.5 gen off of ebay, and of course it broke the same day I bought it :T
 The hard drive failed. I was wondering if the harddrive from the classic would be compatible with the ipod video?!?

 Could I take the harddrive out of the ipod classic (80 gigs) and put it into an ipod video (it was also 80 gigs)

 Any help would be appreciated

 I found the exact specs of both hard drives, but these numbers don't mean a whole lot to me.
 Anyone else have a better idea and willing to help??

 iPod 5.5 - http://www.storage.toshiba.eu/index_techspec.php?pid=87

 iPod classic - http://www.toshibastorage.com/main.a...Specifications


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## qusp

not sure if the drive would work, but if I were you i'd install a CF card adapter in there and buy a 32GB or 64GB CF card for it. Much better battery life, quieter and starts up in like half a second


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bmwpowere36m3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.............
 . Most iMods i've seen hear, IIRC, only use the coupling caps and not the resistors..._

 

Not sure about the resisters; i've never had to use them. but then I've never done a mini

  Quote:


 However when I measure between C53 and GRD (same with C54 and GRD) I'm reading ~100K ohms. And how does for coupling caps, BG NX 47uF bypassed with a (either Russian PIO or Vitamin Q) .047uF! 
 

where are you going to put the second set of caps? the bypass caps?? Its a good idea and does produce SLIGHTLY better results, but the 47uf will do just fine by itself. if you are going to try and get much better results you are better off using a separate enclosure and getting some really nice caps. Such as the VCAP dock i'm building. using 3.3uf OIMP vcap and bypassed with .047 teflon Vcaps. but there\s no way thats fitting an a cable or the ipod. only just fitting in the hammond case


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure about the resisters; i've never had to use them. but then I've never done a mini



 where are you going to put the second set of caps? the bypass caps?? Its a good idea and does produce SLIGHTLY better results, but the 47uf will do just fine by itself. if you are going to try and get much better results you are better off using a separate enclosure and getting some really nice caps. Such as the VCAP dock i'm building. using 3.3uf OIMP vcap and bypassed with .047 teflon Vcaps. but there\s no way thats fitting an a cable or the ipod. only just fitting in the hammond case_

 

I've got a separate Apple dock I hope to fit everything in. There's no room inside the mini for any quality caps, like BG or any film for that matter. I also found the source of the 100K ohms, something I doubt anyone else found and it was driving me crazy. Believe it or not a 5.5G iMod picture clued me in to my discovery. I got it running now, with no output caps and it sounds amazing. Now I just need to wait for a 16GB CF card and whatever caps I'm going to choose.


----------



## no_eye_dear

"I also found the source of the 100K ohms"
 Care to share your findings?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bmwpowere36m3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got a separate Apple dock I hope to fit everything in. There's no room inside the mini for any quality caps, like BG or any film for that matter. I also found the source of the 100K ohms, something I doubt anyone else found and it was driving me crazy. Believe it or not a 5.5G iMod picture clued me in to my discovery. I got it running now, with no output caps and it sounds amazing. Now I just need to wait for a 16GB CF card and whatever caps I'm going to choose._

 

no output caps :concerned: what are you using it with? are you prepared to replace it???
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and yes; do share about the 100k/ohms after all thats what this thread is about


----------



## RinksCustoms

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure about the resisters; i've never had to use them. but then I've never done a mini



 where are you going to put the second set of caps? the bypass caps?? Its a good idea and does produce SLIGHTLY better results, but the 47uf will do just fine by itself. if you are going to try and get much better results you are better off using a separate enclosure and getting some really nice caps. Such as the VCAP dock i'm building. using 3.3uf OIMP vcap and bypassed with .047 teflon Vcaps. but there\s no way thats fitting an a cable or the ipod. only just fitting in the hammond case_

 

To put a few misconceptions to rest, it should be noted that the schematic diagram above has a coupling capacitor, a bypass resistor and a current limiting resistor. In the diagram, R1 is 47K ohms (not needed), that resistor is meant for impedance mismatching with the next amplification stage. Impedance matching is not desirable in audio (with few exceptions) because it can degrade signal quality. C1 is the coupling capacitor, and as many of you have noticed it's capacitance and construction greatly affect the musical quality of the program material.  Quote:


 Capacitive coupling has the disadvantage of degrading the low frequency performance of a system containing capacitively coupled units. Each coupling capacitor along with the input electrical impedance of the next stage forms a high-pass filter and each successive filter results in a cumulative filter with a -3dB frequency that may be higher than each individual filter. So for adequate low frequency response the capacitors used must have high capacitance ratings. They should be high enough that the reactance of each is at least ten times the input impedance of each stage, at the lowest frequency of interest. This disadvantage of capacitively coupling is largely minimized in directly coupled designs. 
 

 Which capacitor works best with this mod is more subjective than objective. Since there are some probable differences in each generation iPod outputs having different impedances between DAC chip numbers, being coupled with multiple input impedances from the different headphone amplifiers, and even different headphone impedances, not to mention that everyones ears has slightly different frequency responses from ~10Hz to ~22.7kHz.
 You don't actually hear 10Hz nor much above 21kHz, some people can "perceive" or detect these frequencies. Barometric pressure (also altitude changes), temperature and humidity all affect sonic performance to some degree. You can see that with all these variables, it would be hard to be definitive as to which type and capacity value will work best with a given system. Given one persons iPod setup and several listeners, you will get multiple impressions of that one setup simply because of the human hearing abilities of each listener. One says it's a warm, smooth sound, and another may say its clean and crisp sounding. So musical nirvana comes in the form of experimentation with your particular setup and to what you perceive as what music should ultimately sound like. As far as capacitors go, a general rule is that physically larger caps which often cost more than the garden variety, will usually pass more musical nuances then their cheaper cousins. I would start with a high quality encoding (lossless) of a classical score you prefer and *only* changing out different coupling capacitors from different makers and of a few different capacitances. 10uF/25V is a good starting point, and working up from there. Looking at which capacitors "audiophile applications" use can be a good source for high quality grade manufacturers of capacitors.


----------



## qusp

well that screwed with my day for nothing then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was just about to make a final order for supplies when I spotted your post and it threw all my prep out the window. so R1=not necessary if you have impedance matched your set up; R2 not necessary if you take care to follow the right turn on, turn off procedure and make sure the caps are charged before plugging an amp or any load in. glad I didn't change my order I was looking at some very expensive resistors


----------



## RinksCustoms

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so R1=not necessary if you have impedance matched your set up; R2 not necessary if you take care to follow the right turn on, turn off procedure and make sure the caps are charged before plugging an amp or any load in. ..._

 

R1 shouldn't be needed at all, as far as I can tell, impedance matching in audio is undesirable because it's said to degrade audio signal quality. R2 is there just to limit peak current going into your amp. C1 & R2 can be high quality, R2 can be lesser quality and higher resistance (47K min). As there is ALOT of calculations and R&D to go over from others, I'm investigating the confusion behind "to impedance match or not to impedance match" further, more for my own knowledge but I will pass what i have learned onto you guys as well. Far as i can gather, it's not desirable for audio applications with the exception of transformer uses.


----------



## qusp

well I ordered a 330k caddock ultra precision film resistor to try out with the VCAP dock when i'm using it with the bantam; but will only leave them in if it doesn't audibly effect the SQ in both DIYMOD and bantam coupling duties mainly DIYMOD, since thats why I started this project. i'm not willing to trade-off performance in the ipod rig so I can use it with the bantam. ideally I can leave it out for both applications and it will be fine. Its not a difficult thing to put into and take out of the path in the hammond case anyway; plenty of room to jerry rig it (R1) to test it out. R2 is as you said for the 'ham fisted ' users who dont know how to treat audio equipment; or at least aren't in the habit of following a turn on/turn off procedure


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Got my iMod Mini 1G running 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's the board, pre-soldering of wires:






 Squares:
 RED (C53) - Right Line-Out from DAC (~1.7Ω)
 BLUE (C54) - Left Line-Out from DAC (~1.7Ω)

 YELLOW (C69) - Dock Connector Pin 3
 MAGENTA (C70) - Dock Connector Pin 4

 Basically I soldered a jumper wire from C53 to C69 and C54 to C70. Having removed the inductors and capacitors, from the line-out signal now leaves a perfectly "virgin" signal, except for one more thing...

 After my initial attempt at the mod, when I measured between C53 and GRD (same with C54 and GRD) I was reading ~100k ohms. I couldn't figure out where is was coming from and I almost gave up.

 When I was looking back at the original iMods (5G or so) something hit me, there was one photo that had every cap and inductor label needed for removal, including the caps, 100Ω resistors, and the 100kΩ resistors. The one thing they all had in common was they were tied to this "Zener Diode Array", labeled [size=small]*ZP1*[/size] on the board. The original mod effectively cut off all "signals" to it, except its ground.






 I found this same diode, ZP1, and I Ω'd it out to the other free pads (C69 & C70) and what do you know, I have a connection (100k) and there is a TINY trace from those pads to the diode.

 YELLOW (C69) *- CONNECTED TO -* WHITE
 MAGENTA (C70) *- CONNECTED TO -* ORANGE






 Since I could see these tiny traces from the cap pads (C69 & C70), I just took a exacto knife and cut the trace. You can kinda see the nicks in the board from cutting the traces. Bingo! NO more 100kΩ to ground 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's it, I also installed an A-DATA 16GB CF card and Rockbox.


----------



## qusp

that 100k resistance would be for input impedance matching IMO something myself and rink customs have been investigating. It does seem however that they are not really needed, so why have them there.


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that 100k resistance would be for input impedance matching IMO something myself and rink customs have been investigating. It does seem however that they are not really needed, so why have them there._

 

Not sure what you're getting at? I removed those resistances since they were part of the original 'high-pass filter' / Coupling section. Now I can run my own caps and resistors.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bmwpowere36m3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure what you're getting at? I removed those resistances since they were part of the original 'high-pass filter' / Coupling section. Now I can run my own caps and resistors._

 

ah ok sorry forgot you were adding the resistors in the large capped dock. my bad


----------



## suicidal_orange

I've just done my first mod on a mini (while adding a 32gb compact flash card) and was wondering where is a good place to check ground to on a 2nd gen mini? I'd like to remove the 100Ω as bmwpowere36m3 did on his 1st gen (if it is present)


 Kinda off topic but while doing the mod I noticed that all the links I clicked on the first post say the correct post number, but link to a page with posts at about half that number. The amount of people I've told to "read the first post" instead of duplicating the info I just hope they had the sense to find the post number not click the link! Did I change a setting to mess the numbering up or are the links or is it like this for everyone?


----------



## joneeboi

That is just an issue of where I set the links. I think it's recommended to use the permalinks, and it used to be like that and I switched it. I used to be able to view 20 posts per page, so that's probably where they messed up. At the very least, the post number is available for reference. Some day, those links will be accurate.


----------



## Hayduke

I apologize in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 /ranton
 refering to a page number is meaningless on these forums. Each user can configure the number of posts shown per page, so it will be different for every setting. Always use post #s and the perma links.

 Not a criticism of anyone in particular, but I get really annoyed when people refer to pages. ie 2 pages ago or page # 157 etc

 I realize that they don't realize everyone can view it differently, so I get over it. I guess I just wish everyone would learn that little detail about this forum engine.

 /rantoff


----------



## mbarry

Hello again, I have 2 more questions. 

 Pin 14 and Pin 17 are if you have the iPod, with the Clickwheel facing up, and counting from left to right, or is it the other way around with Clickwheel to the table, and counting left to right from the back of the iPod?

 And for the Ground on the Line out, do I just solder a wire going from the Clickwheel ground to the Line Out Jack, or is there already a pin on the Dock Connector that I can solder the ground on the Line Out Jack to?

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## hockeyb213

is there anyone on this board that performs diymods? Also on my 5 gen ipod while getting to the logic board I am having an issue removing the ribbon cable of the clickwheel off the board does anyone have any advice for this?


----------



## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hockeyb213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my 5 gen ipod while getting to the logic board I am having an issue removing the ribbon cable of the clickwheel off the board does anyone have any advice for this?_

 

Do not remove that ribbon cable. Keep the clickwheel connector, it's soldered to logic board.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello again, I have 2 more questions. 

 Pin 14 and Pin 17 are if you have the iPod, with the Clickwheel facing up, and counting from left to right, or is it the other way around with Clickwheel to the table, and counting left to right from the back of the iPod?

 And for the Ground on the Line out, do I just solder a wire going from the Clickwheel ground to the Line Out Jack, or is there already a pin on the Dock Connector that I can solder the ground on the Line Out Jack to?

 Thanks in advance!_

 

yep i'm not sure what mod you are doing but none of the ones i've done require you to modify the ground in any way; so you can just solder the ground in your LOD to pin 1,2,15,27,28,29,30 there may be more but thats all I can think of at the moment. any one of these will be fine. I tend to use 29,15 because if you use audio ground which is 2 it makes that part of the dock connector very crowded so if you are using thicker wire it can be a real PITA. all of the ground pins are connected on the ipod motherboard anyway so you can use any one you wish. the only exception is serial ground which is pin 11 this needs to be grounded to enable iphone and 2G touch to work in your regular non-diymod ipod.

 and yes you count from the left when facing the dock connector with the clickwheel facing up. it is left to right on the dock pins as well but of course you start on the top left then 2 is down to the bottom left then 3 is the second top and so on until 30 is the bottom right pin


----------



## hockeyb213

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ron.id* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do not remove that ribbon cable. Keep the clickwheel connector, it's soldered to logic board._

 

I figured that out....so let me comment on my progress....I have sucessfully disassembled my ipod with no issues what so ever....I have located everything on the board I need to use to do the mod. I need to get a soldering iron and 30 awg cable though as I believe one of my friends can sell me blackgates but I good place to buy those may be helpful also.


----------



## hockeyb213

Also is 30 awg an absolute necessity? I only have 24 awg and it would be a pain to get 30+....


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(snip) so you can just solder the ground in your LOD to pin 1,2,15,27,28,29,30 (/snip)_

 

Make that 1, 2, 15, *16, 29, 30*. Pin 27 is used for D+ for USB and 28 is TPB+ for FireWire.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and yes you count from the left when facing the dock connector with the clickwheel facing up._

 

Quoted for truth.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hockeyb213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need to get a soldering iron and 30 awg cable though as I believe one of my friends can sell me blackgates but I good place to buy those may be helpful also._

 

There's a list on Post 1 in Section 9.4.0.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hockeyb213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also is 30 awg an absolute necessity? I only have 24 awg and it would be a pain to get 30+...._

 

It depends on how much you want your front panel to stick out and how much you want your click wheel to sink in. I've done it, and that gets old real fast with regular use. Wait it out, get the 30 AWG. It's ultimately up to you, but I recommend against using anything thicker than 30 AWG for the 5G.


----------



## hockeyb213

thanks for the advice also I have another question. My soldering iron has a digital display which shows Celsius and Fahrenheit.... what temperature should I be desoldering and soldering at?


----------



## mbarry

Doesn't matter, as all the components are made to resist a lot of heat. Set it to something where it will melt solder, and you're set.


----------



## mbarry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yep i'm not sure what mod you are doing but none of the ones i've done require you to modify the ground in any way; so you can just solder the ground in your LOD to pin 1,2,15,27,28,29,30 there may be more but thats all I can think of at the moment. any one of these will be fine. I tend to use 29,15 because if you use audio ground which is 2 it makes that part of the dock connector very crowded so if you are using thicker wire it can be a real PITA. all of the ground pins are connected on the ipod motherboard anyway so you can use any one you wish. the only exception is serial ground which is pin 11 this needs to be grounded to enable iphone and 2G touch to work in your regular non-diymod ipod.

 and yes you count from the left when facing the dock connector with the clickwheel facing up. it is left to right on the dock pins as well but of course you start on the top left then 2 is down to the bottom left then 3 is the second top and so on until 30 is the bottom right pin_

 

So Pin 2 is supposedly the "Original" ground, so when I make a new connector for my modded iPod, I can just solder the ground on the L-O Jack to Pin 2? Also do you think 2500uF Electrolytics are going overboard? I have enough real estate, so size doesn't matter, as I'm already leaving the Caps out of the iPod (5.5G 80 Gig). And, if I do perform the mod, does that mean I lose the original LO from the iPod Dock Connector? Because I would like to retain the original Line Out function for iPod speaker docks from Pins 1 and 3.


----------



## mbarry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hockeyb213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there anyone on this board that performs diymods? Also on my 5 gen ipod while getting to the logic board I am having an issue removing the ribbon cable of the clickwheel off the board does anyone have any advice for this?_

 

What do you mean by ribbon cable? Do you mean the one where the Grey/Black part of the clickwheel that you slide your thumb around is connected to? If so, that ribbon cable *IS* removeable, as I have done it before while exploring the insides of my iPod. 

 Also, wouldn't using smaller gauge wire reduce SQ? Because it has resistance. If not, I have 34 AWG Magnetic Wire, will that work? Thanks


----------



## hockeyb213

I am getting 30 awg wire but while I have my open I might as well desolder everything right?


----------



## mbarry

WHat do you mean? You can take the Clickwheel assembly off by disconnecting a wire, similar to how you disconnect the HDD. You flip the tab up and pull the wire out.


----------



## joneeboi

hockeyb213:

 Try this guide: Installing iPod 5th Generation (Video) Click Wheel

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So Pin 2 is supposedly the "Original" ground, so when I make a new connector for my modded iPod, I can just solder the ground on the L-O Jack to Pin 2? Also do you think 2500uF Electrolytics are going overboard? I have enough real estate, so size doesn't matter, as I'm already leaving the Caps out of the iPod (5.5G 80 Gig). And, if I do perform the mod, does that mean I lose the original LO from the iPod Dock Connector? Because I would like to retain the original Line Out function for iPod speaker docks from Pins 1 and 3._

 

Pin 2 is connected on the iPod board to pin 1, 15, 16, 29 and 30; they are all ground. Plus, when you do the diyMod, you replace the line out's output capacitors, so that's where your line out is, after your new capacitors. If you want to use the speaker dock, you should be confident that the DC won't reach the speaker. If you aren't, then I suggest not plugging your iPod straight into it. What you could do is make an iPod male-to-diyMod-capacitors-to-iPod female cable and connect the female end into the speaker dock. Maybe not as elegant a solution as speaker docks tend to be, but these DIY projects can sometimes be a little less than simple. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If you really wanted to keep the original line out on pins *2* and 3, then you could send the uncapped signal to unused pins in the dock.


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Finally finished off my iMod dock to go along with my iMod Mini. The Mini was upgraded with a 16GB CF card and the signal path was improved. I ended up using the dock to house the coupling caps and resistors.

 Apple Mini Dock
 Solen 10uf Film Caps
 47k Vishay Resistors






*Inside:*
















*Done:*


----------



## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bmwpowere36m3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally finished off my iMod dock to go along with my iMod Mini. The Mini was upgraded with a 16GB CF card and the signal path was improved. I ended up using the dock to house the coupling caps and resistors._

 

Nice job! And nice photography too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll have to let us know how it sounds (maybe using FLAC rips & w/what cans & amp)... Guess it can't help but sound better


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cfcubed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice job! And nice photography too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll have to let us know how it sounds (maybe using FLAC rips & w/what cans & amp)... Guess it can't help but sound better
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm currently only using .AIFF files with the mini and the Rockbox software. So far it definitly sounds better than my MBP onboard soundcard, but I'm still waiting to do some A/B testing. For hardware I have a CMoY, 
 Millet "SS" Hybrid and Senn HD580's.


----------



## hockeyb213

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hockeyb213:

 Try this guide: Installing iPod 5th Generation (Video) Click Wheel



 Pin 2 is connected on the iPod board to pin 1, 15, 16, 29 and 30; they are all ground. Plus, when you do the diyMod, you replace the line out's output capacitors, so that's where your line out is, after your new capacitors. If you want to use the speaker dock, you should be confident that the DC won't reach the speaker. If you aren't, then I suggest not plugging your iPod straight into it. What you could do is make an iPod male-to-diyMod-capacitors-to-iPod female cable and connect the female end into the speaker dock. Maybe not as elegant a solution as speaker docks tend to be, but these DIY projects can sometimes be a little less than simple. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you really wanted to keep the original line out on pins *2* and 3, then you could send the uncapped signal to unused pins in the dock._

 



 not looking to do speakers.... diymod lod into amp


----------



## joneeboi

I was talking to mbarry there.


----------



## qusp

why 2 and 3 dont you mean 3 and 4??? 1 = common ground (along with a few others) 2 = audio ground 3 = right channel 4 = left channel

 and like joneboi says you could leav 1 set of line out wires without caps if thats what you want and when you route your new line out; rioute it to separate unused pins on the dock the ipod is yopurs now, you can make the pins on the dock whatever you like as long as it doesn't interfere with normal operation


----------



## joneeboi

Bah! I messed up while correcting someone. How embarrassing. Yes, pins 3 and 4 are the audio signals. 1 and 2 are ground.


----------



## qusp

LOL yeah at least I got the main ones right from memory was working on charging/syncing lately that threw me. Tv point is there are several choices fir ground IMO it's easier to keep it as ncluttered as possible in there that's an I use 29 instead of 1 or 2 also spreads out the force n the pins with it evenly anchored.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 .................... [snip] If you really wanted to keep the original line out on pins *2* and 3, then you could send the uncapped signal to unused pins in the dock.[ /snip]_

 

should I quote you jon?? so that your faux pa goes down in the annuls of history?? like mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thats what I get for posting from my iphone while i'm on the road. oh well we're all human after all ;p


----------



## mbarry

I'm sorry, I meant pins 3 and 4. So If I use pins 14 and 17, the original LO should not be affected correct?

 Also, I took apart my 5.5G today to clean some dust off the screen, and thought that I might as well take a look at it. I know when you count the pins it goes:
 1 3 5
 2 4 6 etc.
 But the connectors are all over the place...Where do I start counting?

 Also, could you supply me with with the names of Pins 14, and 17 (By names I mean the corresponding label, for example, L1, C64 etc.)?

 Also, is 34 AWG Magnet Wire too thin? Because the thinner it is, the less SQ you get.

 Also, do I have to de-solder the components at pins 14 and 17? Or can I just solder the wire directly on the contact with the component still there?

 Thanks!

 Heh, I'm chock full of questions...


----------



## mbarry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bah! I messed up while correcting someone. How embarrassing. Yes, pins 3 and 4 are the audio signals. 1 and 2 are ground. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

At least you're honest, and didn't delete your post.


----------



## qusp

yes but he couldn't have deleted my post where I quoted him
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I suspect he may have quoted me for that same reason


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Some RMAA data of my iModded Mini 1G:
















 Not bad for a useless mini at the time, compared to the Alien and γ1 DAC's:


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But the connectors are all over the place...Where do I start counting?_

 

Placing the iPod click-wheel and screen facing upward and dock facing you, the leftmost pin is pin 1.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, is 34 AWG Magnet Wire too thin? Because the thinner it is, the less SQ you get.

 Also, do I have to de-solder the components at pins 14 and 17? Or can I just solder the wire directly on the contact with the component still there?_

 

I haven't worked with 34 AWG wire yet, but I'm sure it'll work. I don't know what components are actually connected to pin 14 and 17, but you would want to disconnect whatever is connected to it and solder the wire directly to the pins.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Heh, I'm chock full of questions..._

 

Keep 'em coming.


----------



## antonyfirst

Hey guys, can a 1st gen iPod Mini be iModded? And how good do you guys consider its dac? Is it on par with the 4th gen and 5.5th gen ones? Thank you.

 EDIT: I found the answer to my first question in the first post of this thread. Though the link to the guide doesn't reach the right post, and might need to be updated. I still wonder if the 1st gen Mini's dac is comparable to that of its bigger brothers.


----------



## mbarry

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand. I know it is ordered like: 
 1 3 5 7
 2 4 6 8 etc.

 But I don't know where to start counting, can you label a couple of pins for me on a picture of the solder points (When I took it apart, there was a big component, then smaller ones in rows, then a empty space, then the rows continued)? That would be greatly appreciated. If you are not willing to do so, I understand. Thanks again!


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *antonyfirst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, can a 1st gen iPod Mini be iModded? And how good do you guys consider its dac? Is it on par with the 4th gen and 5.5th gen ones? Thank you.

 EDIT: I found the answer to my first question in the first post of this thread. Though the link to the guide doesn't reach the right post, and might need to be updated. I still wonder if the 1st gen Mini's dac is comparable to that of its bigger brothers._

 

The data I had plotted was for a 1G mini and they have a Wolfson DAC similar to its larger brothers.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry, but I still don't understand. I know it is ordered like: 
 1 3 5 7
 2 4 6 8 etc.

 But I don't know where to start counting, can you label a couple of pins for me on a picture of the solder points (When I took it apart, there was a big component, then smaller ones in rows, then a empty space, then the rows continued)? That would be greatly appreciated. If you are not willing to do so, I understand. Thanks again!_

 


 you just answered your own question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 if you have the dock connector oriented as it would be if you were plugging it in then the pins are numbered in the way you have typed; with the odd numbers running accross the top and the even down the bottom. so 1 is the top left pin and 30 is the bottom right


----------



## antonyfirst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bmwpowere36m3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The data I had plotted was for a 1G mini and they have a Wolfson DAC similar to its larger brothers._

 


 Thanks. But I don't understand if you modded just the lineout cradle, or also the headphone out (which I am interested in modding).


----------



## mbarry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you just answered your own question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if you have the dock connector oriented as it would be if you were plugging it in then the pins are numbered in the way you have typed; with the odd numbers running accross the top and the even down the bottom. so 1 is the top left pin and 30 is the bottom right_

 

I'm sorry, I think you misunderstood my question, I was asking where to start counting, and if the little circular pads should be counted. If I just count the neat little rows, I only get 27, whereas if I counted the pads, I get 31...


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *antonyfirst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. But I don't understand if you modded just the lineout cradle, or also the headphone out (which I am interested in modding)._

 

Oh, I modded the line-out signal... from the DAC to the output of the cradle. In the Mini I removed the line-out caps, resistors, and inductors. So it's sending a "pure" signal from the DAC to the dock and then in the dock there is nothing that modifies the signal. In the dock I put in the coupling caps and "pulldown" resistors.

 The headphone out is a different signal path out of the DAC and goes thru an internal amplification in the DAC, since I use mine as a standalone DAC... I chose to use the "purer" signal (line-out).


----------



## denging

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KoKoKrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ahha the PCB and mini jack was part of the adaptor I modded! or else I would have incorporated everything into the PCB already._

 

do you make it yourself or acquired it from Ridax?


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## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry, I think you misunderstood my question, I was asking where to start counting, and if the little circular pads should be counted. If I just count the neat little rows, I only get 27, whereas if I counted the pads, I get 31..._

 

Forget that. Don't count the inductor-capacitor pairs, look at the actual pins inside the dock. If you want to use pin 14 and 17, one way I'd suggest doing it is by sending the wires to the other side of the board, removing the black tape hiding underneath where the hard drive ribbon cable is, and soldering it directly onto the pins of the female connector. Some pinout diagrams I've seen have said that pins 14 and 17 are reserved, so I'm not sure anymore if they are not connected to anything. It worked for ruZZ.il on his nano 1G, so maybe it'll work for you too. Give it a shot.


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## mbarry

That was what I was thinking of too, just hope I don't accidentally bridge anything... 

 Oh one more thing, will removing the components on pins 14 and 17 improve anything?


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## joneeboi

Again, I don't know if there is anything actually connected to those pins. But sure, removing whatever is there would theoretically improve the sound quality. Your main concern should be whether or not you can solder that darn thing. It took me a good half hour to solder my normally 7-strand wire reduced to 2-strand wire directly onto pins 3 and 4. Get a healthy supply of flux and braid before you carry on.


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## mbarry

I have braid, but not flux. Shouldn't be a problem though.

 Edit: Do you know where I can find the pinouts for the iPod USB Cable? I'm thinking of modding that so I can attach a headphone jack to pins 14 and 17 using it, but don't know the layout of the pins on the cable.


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## qusp

flux shouldn't be discounted with small wiring jobs like that. it really makes the job so much easier. i'm a liberal flux user.

 came in really handy with this
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 3.3uf OIMP VCAP dock with piccolino wiring, eichmann RCA sockets IN/OUT, hard wired LOD (with usb ready to go in) and XLO mini->silver bullet RCA IC also has mini socket on the other side. for if I ever need it. 90% of internal wiring is done with piccolino as well and I got a big enough hammond case to fit some 0.47uf teflon VCAPs for bypass in a couple of weeks. also gonna mod the bullets to right angle so they dont stick out so far.


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## mbarry

What's in the big box above your amp? Because I doubt Caps are that big...


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## qusp

yes they are. obviously you havent seen some of the really high end caps before. most high quality caps in the values we need them to be are at least 1" thick. at the moment there are only the 2 caos in here but I got a case big enough to add the teflon bypass caps later. they are VCAP's the same caps ALO use in their VCAP dock. and the hammond case they use is exactly the same height (only one number different in the model number) and width but shorter because they dont use a bypass. my aim was to make a better dock than the ALO VCAP dock and IMO I have succeeded; I have heard the alo dock and it doesn't sound as good as this. plus I used higher quality materials all round. but I guess it should be better considering the price of the parts


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## joneeboi

It depends on how much capacitance you want. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Image courtesy of ndrwfgg's flickr account (found by Google)


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## mbarry

Finally did the DiyMod... Soldering the wires was a complete pain in the a**. But it's done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Another question, why do you need caps? All they do is filter noise, which there is virtually none. I've tried the setup without caps and it still works.


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## mbarry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on how much capacitance you want. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Image courtesy of ndrwfgg's flickr account (found by Google)



_

 

Holy crap that's big. My dad used to work on old tube Tvs, and those had huge caps. One of them exploded because of backwards wiring, and it blackened the whole room. That was only a 5000uF cap. Think of what a 1F cap would do!

 So are Electrolytics good, or are Ceramics better?


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## joneeboi

Capacitors do more than just filter noise. In this case, they act as open circuits to DC signals. You can send that signal through your amplifier to your headphones, but depending on the amplifier, it can destroy your headphones. What amp are you using?


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## qusp

ummmm you should really read this thread B4 doing the mod or at least do some research. (it is a massive thread) but as jon says you may destroy your headphones. DC offset is the silent killer; it will work.... until it doesn't
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the caps filter DC out of the signal; they are not put in as a highpass filter, that is just a byproduct in this application. if there is dc offset in your signal and then that is passed on to the amp that DC is then amplified along with the audio signal. If your amp doesn't have input caps then you will kill your headphones in no time and you wont hear any warning; they will just stop working. this question has been covered many times in this thread dude


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## qusp

film caps are better than both. thats what you want if you have the spare $$$


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## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why do you need caps? All they do is filter noise, which there is virtually none. I've tried the setup without caps and it still works._

 

You'll kill your headphones without caps. Maybe your headamp have input caps, so it's safe to use LOD without caps.

 This capacitors block DC voltage, so it will not go to your amp and get amplified. What you need is AC (music is here). If i'm not wrong, there is ~1.2V DC at Wolfson's line-out (called dc offset). It's safe to have dc offset around 20mV (0.02V)at amp's headphone-out. cmiiw.


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## mbarry

Ok, I have soldered 220uF Caps to the LOD, for both caps the positive end is supposed to be pointing at the iPod end, and the negative to the amp correct? I had it set up like so, and plugged it into a homemade CMoy, and it blew one of the caps in the CMoy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I then measured the voltage and it came to .098 for RT and .009 for LT... Any ideas what went wrong?


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## bmwpowere36m3

nv...


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## mbarry

Oops, do I need to do this? "lineout require 1uF and 100ohms in series with the left and right channels and the stereo jack's ground goes to ground". I don't have a 100Ohm resistor implemented...but I doubt that's why the Caps blew.


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## joneeboi

What capacitor did it blow? One of the power supply caps? You'd have to be a bit more explicit and maybe even start a new thread about it, but with most problems in the DIY section, you should start by supplying us with some pictures. I can't imagine that the diyMod would cause your power caps to blow, but then again, I don't know what you did with your diyMod, LOD and CMoy.


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## mbarry

It blew a power supply Cap. The caps are 2200uF Electrolytics. Nothing else is altered from the standard CMoy schematic. For the DiyMod, all I did was wire the L and R channels coming from the DAC to pins 14 and 17. I am using 220uF Electrolytics for the DiyMod. For both the L and R channels, the + side of the 220uF cap shold be facing the iPod right? Everything works correctly if I just plug in headphones after the 220uF caps, but when I plug in my CMoy, I heard a sizzling sound, then I lost the L Channel on my headphones, then the Cap blew. I have no idea why though, everything is wired up correctly, otherwise no sound would come out if I just plug in headphones after the 220uF Caps. But it' just when I plug in the CMoy. There isn't anything wrong with the CMoy, as I have used it with numerous sources with no problem whatsoever. Could it be because I omitted the 100Ohm resistors that wou mentioned the DAC used?


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## joneeboi

If you wired it correctly, you should be able to hear music when you plug the headphones in directly after the caps. The DAC is capable of driving low impedance loads, so I'd say you need to clean up your wiring job. The positive end indeed accepts the signal from the iPod and the negative end goes to the amp or headphones. If you couldn't hear anything with the headphones plugged in right after the caps, then the lack of resistors is irrelevant. How did you plug in the headphones? Was there a ground connection when you did?


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## Hayduke

he said he DOES get sound when he connects the headphones after the caps.

 I don't have an ideas right now, I would have to look up what pin 14 and 17 are for.

 mbarry, my understanding is that you wired the R and L signal to pins 14 and 17. I'll assume that you used the ground on pin 1 and/or 2. What else uses 14 and 17? If there is anything inside the iPod connected to those pins, you would want to break that circuit.

 Have you measured the voltage coming off your LOD? Compare the right and left outputs to ground. I'm curious.


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## mbarry

Yes, I posted the voltages earlier (post #1613). But upon re measuring, I get .004 for left, and .008 for right...5 minutes later the L channel is the same, but R is at .012. I do not believe it is a bad connection problem, as I have not moved anything since last night when I measured .098 for R and .009 for L. Pin 14 is hooked up to L and 17 is R. I'm using 2 for ground.

 I have re assembled my CMoy, and everything seems to be in working order (DiyMod included), the cap probably just was bad, but I don't know why it decides to go after 60 hrs of use. SQ wise, I don't hear that much of a difference, but I do notice a warmer midrange, and Bass goes just a tiny bit lower. Not a huge difference (probably because I'm not using very expensive, or good for that matter, headphones [Audio Technica ATH P1]), but definetly better. Still pondering why such a drastic voltage change.


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## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SQ wise, I don't hear that much of a difference, but I do notice a warmer midrange, and Bass goes just a tiny bit lower. Not a huge difference (probably because I'm not using very expensive, or good for that matter, headphones [Audio Technica ATH P1]), but definetly better._

 

I think you will hear much difference if you use non-electrolytic capacitors for your LOD. Buy cheap polypropylene or paper-in-oil capacitors @4.7uF or more.


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## mbarry

I thought Electrolytics were good for audio
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





? I have some 1uF polypropylene Caps, but not 4.7... So is bigger capacity better? If so I can buy some 47uF polypropylene Caps.


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## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought Electrolytics were good for audio
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? I have some 1uF polypropylene Caps, but not 4.7... So is bigger capacity better? If so I can buy some 47uF polypropylene Caps._

 

Worst of the worst 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For a CMOY, skip the caps completely, you have input caps on the CMOY anyway.

 Cap size depends on impedance of next stage

 4.7uF : 10K
 1.0uF : 50K
 0.47uF : 100K

 Likely your CMOY is 10K so 4.7uF is what you should go with, but since you already have caps on the CMOY, skip it.


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## mbarry

I only have .1uF polypropylene input caps on the CMoy. I have 2200uF Electrolytics in the CMoy power circuit, that should be fine as long as SQ is concerned right?


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## joneeboi

More capacitance in the CMoy power supply results in less bass attentuation, but after a point, you start getting excessive. I know 220uF is what is originally specified, but after 470uF and 680uF, bass rolloff isn't really an issue. But to answer your question in a word, sure.


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## mbarry

What would be the best capacitor type to use (budget is around $100 for both caps, and just out of curiosity)?

 @Joneeboi, I meant to ask are Electrolytics any good for the power supply circuit, or will other types improve the SQ?

 Edit: Looked back a couple of posts and found "Film Capacitors", but what kind? There are Polypropylene, Polyamide, Plastic, Polysulphone, etc. all of which are Film Caps.


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## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbarry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What would be the best capacitor type to use (budget is around $100 for both caps, and just out of curiosity)?

 @Joneeboi, I meant to ask are Electrolytics any good for the power supply circuit, or will other types improve the SQ?_

 

Power supply caps for headamps & dc blocking caps for iPod LOD is two different topics. See first page of this thread, section 6.05.0 - 6.10.0

 And yes electrolytics best use is for amps power supply section, other types cannot give that hundreds or thousands uF, cmiiw.


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## joneeboi

Ron.id is right. Electrolytics are the only realistic option in the power supply. You can't get that kind of capacitance for that size and price except with electrolytics. Typically, a high speed reservoir cap, typically film, is put in parallel with the power supply electrolytic capacitors to help with sudden spikes in current draw, as seen in C4+ and C4- in the PIMETA schematic.

http://www.tangentsoft.net/audio/pim...schematic1.pdf

 If you want, you can put both film and electrolytic capacitors in the power supply in this arrangement. Many other designs around head-fi employ the film bypass capacitor, so you're in good company.


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## mbarry

So what type of "Film" Capacitor would be best for the LOD? I know it is more personal, but what do you guys suggest?


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## qusp

there is no 'best' capacitor. and to put ANY film caps in it wont go in an LOD it has to go in a similar arrangement to my case I posted before. the 'best' caps will set you back around $400 each and thats not even counting audionote. but for quality caps the usual suspects are: VCAP OIMP (at least 2-3.3uf depending on the input impedance of your amp), mundorf supreme, supreme silver, supreme silver in oil, supreme silver/gold, supreme silver/gold in oil, clarity cap, musicap, VCAP teflon film tin foil (TFTF) jensen copper foil. etc. etc. all of these aer great caps but they each have their own character; some of them, like the teflons their special character is the fact that they dont have character but exhibit ultimate transparency as their SQ. As was mentioned just before, you can use a good quality 'lower end' cap in a largish value like 3.3 that doesn't cost the earth like mundorf supreme or equivalent (RWA use these in their amps) and then use a faster more accurate (teflon or silver/gold) cap in a value about 1/10 of the larger one in a bypass (parallel) configuration, to add detail and sparkle to the meatier more bassy mundorf. what cap you will prefer is down to personal taste though some like the VCAP and mundorfs are a pretty safe bet. but all of them are at least 1" thick and at least as long. that is why electrolytics are used so often when they are inferior (by the most part anyway) in so far as SQ to the films because you just cant get a film cap that is small enough in large enough values to use by themselves in a small amp or regular LOD they can only be used as bypass to liven things up to try and compensate for the slower nature of electrolytic caps.


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## joneeboi

I seem to have missed the date by a little over a week, but the diyMod thread has reached its one year anniversary. In just over one year, the thread has seen just over 1600 replies and almost 142,000 views spanning some 13 odd models. I don't know the number of diyMods that have been completed, but there is a healthy set of images to display the talent and creativity of the people that have contributed to and benefited from this thread. I want to thank all of you for making this thread what it was, is and will be in the years to come. I'm just amazed that a simple datasheet search on Google turned into something so monumental. At the time of the writing of this post, this thread is sitting at 6th most replies and 5th most views in head-fi's DIY subsection, and for non-stickied threads it's the 4th in replies and 2nd in views. I think that's quite an accomplishment considering all the diyMod accomplishes is the replacement of two blocking capacitors. At those rankings, we're standing next to projects like the Millett Max (far below it, mind you), Bijou, Alien DAC, M^3, the Millett Starving Student and more. I'm honoured and humbled to stand in the company of such cornerstones of the head-fi DIY community. Thanks for the great year, everyone. *wipes tear*


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## Seaningtime

I've had my DIY done for a while now, but right now is the first chance I've had to listen to it! (Didn't have the cable) And it sounds amazing, I only have sony v500s (Getting Alessandro Ms1 soon) and it is probably the best sounding music I have heard from electronics. (I don't have much experience... but still!)

 This thread is great


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## RinksCustoms

I've been meaning to post about the capacitor controversy but have been designing a valveless engine in CAD. Anyways, I took a break and maybe i can clear some confusion from the thread.

 As you may know, capacitors used for coupling have a unique frequency response depending on the impedances of the source output and amp input. Attached is two files, a picture of the test circuit in Multisim 10 which was designed to mimic typical values for output and input impedances, and a PDF of the frequency responses of four typical valued capacitors. Input to test circuit was 10mV peak-peak with 15mV DC offset (values found in iPod nano 3G DAC).

 To keep a frequency response absolutely flat in any given iPod/amplifier stage values ranging from 1uF to 33uF can be used with frequency responses of not worse than -0.01db for a 1uF. Values smaller than 1uF will begin to create a high pass filter around 200 Hz for the test circuit. Phase difference is irrelevant since both channels being coupled will be out of phase equally. 

 The use of *polarized electrolytics isn't recommended*. It's simply because of their construction, when an AC voltage is presented to a polarized capacitor, the thin aluminum oxide that forms the dielectric on the positive plate is punctured by the reverse voltage which creates a short circuit between the two plates. This short allows the capacitor to pass any DC bias to the next stage which will be amplified with the AC signal coming from the source. Because the puncture of the dielectric (which is 0.025" thick) starts out small at first, it won't be noticeable until the voice coils overheat and fail. Considering the hundreds if not thousands of dollars some of you spend on headphones and speakers, amplifying DC bias isn't tolerable at all, *So don't use polarized capacitors for coupling.*

 Materials used in construction determine the qualities and capacitance of a capacitor. Obviously higher purity/quality materials will yield a higher quality capacitor. General choices in materials suitable for coupling capacitors are paper, plastic, and non-polarized electrolytic. Each have their strengths and weaknesses. 

 Electrolytics are cheap, small physical size for their capacitance, but have low temperature stability so their capacity is substantially reduced at lower temperatures. 

 Paper based capacitors are more temperature stable than electrolytics, but have less capacity vs physical size and are more expensive than electrolytics.

 Plastic capacitors - any dielectric having "poly" in the name. These capacitors have very good temperature stability, are generally smaller than paper capacitors, but are more expensive than electrolytic and paper capacitors.


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## Seaningtime

Ok I don't know what is going on here.... Like I said earlier I finished the mod and was listening to it. I was listening to it through a self-made usb cable with capacitors between the audio channels.

 Today I left another iPod playing in my drawer to burn in the capacitors. And now it is acting very strange. Through the cable the iPod classic is detected, and when I play it through the comp both channels come in just fine, although it was acting a little strange and took longer to detect than normally. And when I plug in the modded iPod 5th gen I can see that the iPod recognizes that it's plugged into a computer (Little icon in rockbox), but then it goes away and just charges.

 If I plug the diymod with a different cable into the comp it loads up ok?

 But I was listening through this cable last night and this morning, got home and now it won't work??

 Any ideas ??? I dont know why but I have a strange feeling it has to do with the capacitors blocking the weaker signal of the diymod because they were getting charged all day and night??

 I'm just really confused here, anyone have any ideas....??

 Also, if I plug in my diymod through a normal cable to the comp I am able to access it and everything fine...

 If I am just data transferring and not listening to music than there should be no harm done correct??


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## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seaningtime* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was listening to it through a self-made usb cable with capacitors between the audio channels.

 Also, if I plug in my diymod through a normal cable to the comp I am able to access it and everything fine...

 If I am just data transferring and not listening to music than there should be no harm done correct??_

 

Both data transferring & music listening through your computer via USB data cable should be safe. Your computer simply will not accept line-out from your iPod via USB cable.

 The problems maybe lies in your self-made usb cable equipped with caps, or loose/broken bypass cable from DAC to dock inside your iPod.


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## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RinksCustoms* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_................

 The use of *polarized electrolytics isn't recommended*. I_

 

ummm are you counting film caps in this polarized = bad statement??? usually polarized, because there are many many designs that use a small value film cap as a bypass to a larger value (normally non-polarized) electrolytic cap. are you saying that all these designs are bad designs. this practice is totally common place.


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## greeny

Help.
 I've lifted the pads off my 5g video.
 what should i do?


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## Seaningtime

_""Both data transferring & music listening through your computer via USB data cable should be safe. Your computer simply will not accept line-out from your iPod via USB cable.

 The problems maybe lies in your self-made usb cable equipped with caps, or loose/broken bypass cable from DAC to dock inside your iPod.""_

 I thought that data listening would not be safe because the signal is unregulated and comes directly from the DAC. Isn't that why the caps are needed in the first place??

 But I don't understand why the cable is still working for one ipod, and on the other one it won't, but it was working fine 12 hours ago??


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## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seaningtime* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<snip>If I plug the diymod with a different cable into the comp it loads up ok?</snip>

 <snip>Also, if I plug in my diymod through a normal cable to the comp I am able to access it and everything fine...</snip>_

 

I think that's your problem. I couldn't tell you why your DIY cable isn't working, but you might want to investigate that. And how on earth did you fit caps *and* USB into the same dock? It must be a pretty tight fit depending on how you routed everything.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *habba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Help.
 I've lifted the pads off my 5g video.
 what should i do?_

 

Which pads did you lift? One of the last resorts is soldering the wire directly to the dock pins hiding behind the hard drive connector on the other side of the board. That's a task in and of itself, but that's what has to happen in these kinds of situations. Check with your DMM if the other solder spots can be used.


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## Seaningtime

lol, I got lazy, just cut the wire in a place that is hidden behind my desk, soldered it all back up and taped it. I will use one of those voltmeters later when I get the chance to test all four signal paths


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## greeny

The pads on of the green arrows are lifted. i've desolder the capacitors of l2 and l3 and the small ones as well.


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## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *habba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The pads on of the green arrows are lifted. i've desolder the capacitors of l2 and l3 and the small ones as well._

 

Bad news 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As my knowledge, this means your only chance is soldering the wire directly to the dock pins hiding behind the hard drive connector (as joneeboi mentioned earlier).

 But it is the most difficult way than other methods. If your soldering tool & skills is not enough, you could easily damage the harddrive connector 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... game over.

 IMO there's easier way to resolve this, see Ramblingman's diyMOD 5.5G here


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## qusp

yeah well its already game over if he doesn't do it. 

 i'll preface this with the statement that I'm not at all sure what it is you are trying to do with caps in a usb cable;l unless you have made a LOD with caps on 3 and 4 and added a mini usb socket or wired directly to the usb data pins. oh and BTW there is no line signals in the standard usb cable; pins 3 and 4 arent even used in the apple one. audio is passed through the cable as a digital signal, not an analogue one; this bypasses the dac altogether and the audio is processed by the audio card in your computer; if i'm understanding you properly you have inserted caps in the usb signal path?? is that right?? because if you have added caps into the digital I/O that may be your problem. i'm a little bemused by what you are doing with the USB cable unless i'm totally misunderstanding you.


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## Seaningtime

Yes, I did add caps in my usb signal path, I put them between the Green and the White wires (Data + and data -)

USB pinout and signals @ pinouts.ru

 And when the music plays through the cable it sounds great (It is working again), not just a placebo effect, when I A-B my diymod and ipod classic the difference is very noticable

 I don't see what is so wrong with what I did? 

 Music is taken from the LOD of the iPod which is directly connected to the DAC via the mod. A USB cable is just a cable, wires. What difference does it make if I use a USB cable or a headphone cable to send the signal to my computer or amplifier?
 And why do I have to put the caps directly to the usb data pins?
 As long as the caps are between the iPod and the next thing in the chain then that is what I set out to do in the first place, no?

 And also the line in on my car head unit is USB so I plan on using this cable for that purpose whenever I get a new car to put my sound system into

 But I don't mean to be ignorant, I came and asked you guys for help because clearly you guys are the pros. So how should I be making a cable given my circumstances...?

 I have 2 sets of caps, I wanted to have one pair used for USB in my car, and one to go to a 1/8th inch headphone jack so that I can use it anywhere like a home system- the other day I ordered a large iPod adapter for this (That has room to fit caps)


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## joneeboi

There isn't any indication at all in this thread that one should put capacitors in their USB signal. The closest we ever come to that is back when CAvanessia and I both made docks with USB capability and line out, but there were never caps in the paths of the USB signals then either. It's not just a matter of "caps anywhere in between the iPod and the next thing." The capacitors block DC and respond to AC, so they are put in series with the DAC outputs to protect your equipment. No one has ever said to put capacitors in series with the USB signal in this thread, so I don't know where you got that from. Like qusp said, the Wolfson DAC isn't even used when you hook your iPod to your car stereo's USB input. I have no idea how USB works, but that would be your first clue as to why your dock isn't working like it should. I thought it was just understood that this whole thread was mainly about blocking DC on the audio pins, but I'll be clearer now:

*Use capacitors in series with pins 3 and 4, and don't hook anything additional to your USB signal.*


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## Seaningtime

Ok let me just clarify- After sending the signal from the DAC to the line out of the iPod directly with the mod, there is still another set of outputs specifically for playing through the USB which are totally independent and irrelevant to the mod which was performed?

 ie - One can play their iPod through the USB cable and it will have nothing to do with the diymod


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## joneeboi

Precisely.

 It's not so much that USB should necessarily be considered another audio output, but it just so happens that it can be used that way.


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## Seaningtime

Hmm well I feel a little stupid now, lol. But I swear it still sounds good to me... O well, time to do it properly and see the true potential 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks guys


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## Hayduke

@ Seaning

 If you did put caps in the USB signal path, that would explain the description of your problem. You said it "took longer then normal to recognize the iPod". This was likely due to the time it took to charge up the caps. Once they were charged, the signals could pass.

 Like others have said though, you should remove them. There is no benefit to be had, and it can only cause problems as you have observed. Luckily, I don't think you could have damaged anything.

 I have a question though about your intended application. You said your head unit has a USB input? What do they intend you to connect to it? A laptop or something? Or was the intention to use the standard iPod USB cable? This mod won't help with that application. This will only affect the audio line out on pins 3 and 4 on the dock. If you think the DAC in your head unit is better then the Wolfson DAC inside the iPod, you should just use the standard iPod cable.

 If your head unit also has line in plugs on the back, such as RCAs, then you could benefit from this mod. Make yourself a LOD with RCAs instead of a mini phono plug, or use a mini phono-->RCA adapter.

 Another option is to build a standard LOD. ie coupling caps inside that terminates with the mini phono. Then build a cable with a female mini phone and male RCAs. The line out on head units are usually on the back, so you could run the cable behind the dash and plug in the RCAs. Then leave the female mini phono somewhere accessible, and you would be able to use the same LOD you will use for your headphone amps


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## Johannes Freed

Quick question... Will diyModding the line-out on an iPod Mini affect the headphone out in any way? As in, will it still work?


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johannes Freed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question... Will diyModding the line-out on an iPod Mini affect the headphone out in any way? As in, will it still work?_

 

It sorta depends on what DIY you do to the Mini, but if you use the "standard" method of sending the improved signal to the original dock pins, no it won't affect the headphone out at all.


----------



## Johannes Freed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sorta depends on what DIY you do to the Mini, but if you use the "standard" method of sending the improved signal to the original dock pins, no it won't affect the headphone out at all._

 

Great thanks. I just got my hands on two iPod Minis


----------



## orys

i have a 160gb ipod, which is part no. mb150ll/a. most sites list it as 6G, however i am not sure. i think i read somewhere that 6G were only 120gb. can someone shed some light on this because i am thinking of buying a line out dock rca cable or even risk it by doing the mod.

 thanks 
 tio


----------



## joneeboi

As of yet, there isn't a diyMod available or at least formalized for the either 80GB/160GB or 120GB iPods. We'll call the 80/160GB iPods the 6G and the 120GB the 7G for the sake of having a convenient label. No one's really shown us a diyMod 6G or 7G, either empirically or theoretically, so nothing's going there. Vinnie of RWA has expressed that it wasn't worth the trouble, and though there has been interest, no one's really taken the initiative, myself included. I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you could do it for us and show it off. I will be coming into an 8-month work term in January, so maybe I could invest in a 6G and 7G iPod for diyModding purposes. Then again, I've had lots of bark and very little bite in the recent past of this thread.


----------



## sugrhigh

So how does the sound quality of a diyModded iPod compare to say just a an iPod using the standard LOD?


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sugrhigh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how does the sound quality of a diyModded iPod compare to say just a an iPod using the standard LOD?_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/im...rience-231319/


----------



## joneeboi

Beat me to it 

 You can probably find what you're looking for in some of these more popular iMod threads. You won't find reviews on the diyMod. =t

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f70/ne...ration-237709/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/fi...ssions-241013/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/im...-199-a-192836/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f70/im...k-soup-251248/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/an...y-imod-236216/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/i-...ay-wow-161975/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/im...rrated-279369/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/re...e-real-231708/


----------



## orys

hmmm
 i wanna see a comparisson for 6G ipods vs imod or dyimod.


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *orys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmmm
 i wanna see a comparisson for 6G ipods vs imod or dyimod._

 

Uhm... going on a limb here, but I'd say it would be pretty much the same comparison as any other iPod vs iMod. Just a thoght... it's not like anything changed inside.


----------



## pinkfloyd4ever

I thought Vinnie didn't do iMods to 6th gen iPods because they don't have the awesome Wolfson DAC chip that the earlier iPods did, making modding it kinda pointless. Of course, you're certainly welcome to try to diyMod one.

 EDIT: whoops, I may have misread what you were asking, orys, but did you mean a 6G iPod vs 6G iMod/diyMod?


----------



## joneeboi

From the man himself:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vinnie R.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Based on these findings of the 6G iMod Classic, I'm thinking it is not worth modding them because it not nearly as much "stuff" in the signal path between the dac and the dock connector as the 4G, 5G, and 5.5G units, so you can't expect the get nearly the same kind of benefit._


----------



## dhaninugraha

hi guys, I'm having an iPod mini coming soon.
 it's a 2G mini with already-dysfunctional 4GB microdrive & somewhat short battery life... I bought it from a friend for only around US$35... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 he was actually going to replace the microdrive w/ CF, but I talked him into selling the mini to me instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm planning to replace the microdrive w/ a 8GB CF and get a hi-capacity batt. and while it's open, yeah why not add a DIY-mod as well, I thought.

 a couple questions I'm throwing in here:

 1) in bmwpowere36m3's DIYmod mini 1G, he shorted C53 to C69 and C54 to C70. however, in FallenAngel's DIYmod mini 2G, he shorted C53 to L7 and C54 to L8. is this correct? I tried to search the thread for FallenAngel's post, but it was to no avail (read: I was too lazy to look at the search results 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 2) I have ATA/IDE (a.k.a. harddrive) ribbon cables laying around, which consists of 28AWG wires. would these cables suffice for the job? if they do, I might as well just chop 'em and use 'em... save me the trip to the audio parts store (which is quite far from where I live)


 I guess that'd be all the questions so far, and I'd like to say thanks in advance for any response.
 oh and please forgive me if one day I might pop another question or two


----------



## suicidal_orange

For my 2G mini I did as FallenAngel did in the pic in the first post of this thread - remove L7+8 and short C53 to C69 and C54 to C70 - it works. Lots of swearing at it but mostly as I had no clamp and little tweezer control 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for the wire a fast IDE cable (UDMA100? Can't remember but if you have one hopefully you know what I mean) would work, but it is quite stiff (maybe this would be an advantage though if you bend it to the right shape before soldering either end - solder one end and bend the wire and you could lift a pad). It's a really short connection so the wire won't make much difference in the sound quality.

 Good luck


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dhaninugraha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys, I'm having an iPod mini coming soon.
 it's a 2G mini with already-dysfunctional 4GB microdrive & somewhat short battery life... I bought it from a friend for only around US$35... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 he was actually going to replace the microdrive w/ CF, but I talked him into selling the mini to me instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm planning to replace the microdrive w/ a 8GB CF and get a hi-capacity batt. and while it's open, yeah why not add a DIY-mod as well, I thought.

 a couple questions I'm throwing in here:

 1) in bmwpowere36m3's DIYmod mini 1G, he shorted C53 to C69 and C54 to C70. however, in FallenAngel's DIYmod mini 2G, he shorted C53 to L7 and C54 to L8. is this correct? I tried to search the thread for FallenAngel's post, but it was to no avail (read: I was too lazy to look at the search results 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 2) I have ATA/IDE (a.k.a. harddrive) ribbon cables laying around, which consists of 28AWG wires. would these cables suffice for the job? if they do, I might as well just chop 'em and use 'em... save me the trip to the audio parts store (which is quite far from where I live)


 I guess that'd be all the questions so far, and I'd like to say thanks in advance for any response.
 oh and please forgive me if one day I might pop another question or two 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My iPod was a 1G Mini and FallenAngel's was a 2G Mini, both of ours work the way we have done them.

 And, actually yes I used an old ATA133 cable to connect the pads together. I pulled off two "strands" of the ribbon and used them. It's actually just a solid copper conductor.


----------



## Moontan13

I picked up a cheap ($30) used 4G 20gb (non-photo) iPod today, to be used as a guinea pig for Rockbox and if that works out, a DIY Mod.
 Having previously found the parts needed, I need to know if I can use a bigger battery and/or hard drive just by getting the larger case back.

 Also, there was a point that I need clarification on regarding the cutting of two traces to enable the HP jack to be used as the line out. Is that all, (besides the wiring), that needs to be done, and if the traces aren't cut, the HP jack works normally?


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Moontan13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I picked up a cheap ($30) used 4G 20gb (non-photo) iPod today, to be used as a guinea pig for Rockbox and if that works out, a DIY Mod.
 Having previously found the parts needed, I need to know if I can use a bigger battery and/or hard drive just by getting the larger case back._

 

I suggest you replace the HD with one of these:
Newegg.com - A-DATA 32GB Compact Flash (CF) Flash Card Model SPEEDY CF 32G - Flash Memory
  Quote:


 Also, there was a point that I need clarification on regarding the cutting of two traces to enable the HP jack to be used as the line out. Is that all, (besides the wiring), that needs to be done, and if the traces aren't cut, the HP jack works normally? 
 

I haven't worked on a 4G, so my information may not be correct. I think I'm accurate, but someone will correct me if I'm mistaken.

 You _can_ make the headphone out into line out, but it will not allow "normal" use of that output any longer. A better solution is to modify the line out that goes to the dock connector. This will leave the headphone out untouched so you can still use it if needed/desired. One nice thing about the 4G is you can actually fit the decoupling caps inside body, so you can still use a plain LOD.


----------



## Moontan13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 You can make the headphone out into line out, but it will not allow "normal" use of that output any longer. A better solution is to modify the line out that goes to the dock connector. This will leave the headphone out untouched so you can still use it if needed/desired. One nice thing about the 4G is you can actually fit the decoupling caps inside body, so you can still use a plain LOD._

 

Using a LOD would be preferable to disabling the headphone jack. 
 I was hoping to try and use one of the larger capacity 1.8" drives Toshiba offers, perhaps a 120gb. I'm seeing some info regarding gen 5 and 5.5 iPods, but nothing much about the Gen 4, except for the CF mod.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Moontan13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I picked up a cheap ($30) used 4G 20gb (non-photo) iPod today, to be used as a guinea pig for Rockbox and if that works out, a DIY Mod.
 Having previously found the parts needed, I need to know if I can use a bigger battery and/or hard drive just by getting the larger case back._

 

They both should fit.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Moontan13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, there was a point that I need clarification on regarding the cutting of two traces to enable the HP jack to be used as the line out. Is that all, (besides the wiring), that needs to be done, and if the traces aren't cut, the HP jack works normally?_

 

You got it.


----------



## Moontan13

Thank you, sir.


----------



## iQEM

long time no see this topic, first of all happy newyear 2009 for all of you here...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 how unlucky me, after a long-long time when i tried my lod the sound only came out from the left channel...the right one only sound bzzzz, so i ask Ron to check it for me...
 and the result Ron said that my line out channel from DAC had been ruin (maybe becos of i'm not solder it right) and now it came with no audio at all, so for emergency Ron paralel from the headphone out and bypass it to LOD...funny, isn't it ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now what i'm gonna ask here, is it possible to replace the DAC to fix this ? fyi i have another faulty logicboard ipod nano 1stGEN...well i know it's hard to replace it but maybe i'm gonna ask for help to cellphone technician (close friend of mine) who used to replace chip on the cellphone (PA or other tiny chip like that)...but is it worth ?


----------



## qusp

the hardest part will be desoldering it without killing it with too much heat. IMO it depends on how much you value your time; I would just buy a replacement logic board. you say you have a spare 1st gen nano, but what sort of ipod are you trying to repair?? because it may be a different codec and therefor will not match the firmware.


----------



## qusp

hey I forgot to ask. we have discovered that there is no need to remove the inductors and caps hey?? so I can just take the signal from below the caps and take it to the pads below the inductors (the alternative circular service ones) but I cant use those pads if I have removed any inductors etc. because I will have broken the path. I think I will remove everything anyway because at least then the paty is fully broken and there is no interferance from other circuitry. thoughts?? has anyone done it without removing anything and what were the results??


----------



## joneeboi

I have been trying to get the same message across for some time now. Even if the signal isn't "fully broken," the short circuit from the caps to the inductors will always get all of the signal all the time. It's the path of least resistance, so any kind of audiophile prudence is really unnecessary. It's a more mechanically sound connection when leaving in the caps and inductors, so I stopped recommending people remove them. I can't actually find the post (maybe it didn't end up being posted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but that's the party line these days. By not removing the caps and inductors, you get the same signal but with more physical connection strength. You don't even have to use hot glue anymore, at least I didn't in the last 5.5G I modded. Don't bother yourself with this "fully broken" signal business. You won't notice the difference because it's a dead short. You probably couldn't even scope a visually noticeable difference let alone an audible one. 

 Bottom line: *Leave the caps and inductors on the board and short them*.


----------



## qusp

OK so I removed the caps near the dac and soldered to those before I thought i'd try this and then soldered to the pads down near the inductors. so now I just need to solder bridge the caps and inductors dont I?? or do I actually need to use a tiny piece of wire to do it?? because I have removed the caps near the dac but then taken the signal down to the 2 service pads under the inductors without removing anything else. but i'm just getting staticy audio. i'm sure ive got a great connection but is it because I removed the first caps that it doesnt work. or is there something else i'm missing here?? I havent done any trouble shooting I just came upstairs to see if you posted and gave it a burl while I was here. the sound is equally distorted in both channels and I still get music out of the HP jack and it syncs with my mac just fine. so I havent killed anything. because I have removed those first caps, do I now have to remove all of them? I wouldve thought as you said it would still use the path of least resistance even if I removed the first caps, since the signal doesnt go though them any more when you give the signal a better path. i'm happy that I will get a great connection anyway if I do it the original method; because I am on a roll with the soldering today and I just love the tub of cardas flux that i've been using lately. I just want to know if there is something simple i'm missing before just going ahead as normal and removing the rest of the circuitry. this is the first time ive done it this way, but have been having good success doing it the other way for a while now. but I agree, its easier to get a more solid connection by being able to use those pads, but i'm doing something wrong, I just hope its not one of those 'doh!!' of course things.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the hardest part will be desoldering it without killing it with too much heat. IMO it depends on how much you value your time; I would just buy a replacement logic board. you say you have a spare 1st gen nano, but what sort of ipod are you trying to repair?? because it may be a different codec and therefor will not match the firmware._

 

well actually the line out from DAC that had been shorted out, that why there's no sound come out of it through line-out...the headphone out doing just fine, my theory is change the DAC then everythin goes back to normal...no need to buy replacement logicboard since it's too expensive for me, just my opinion...


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK so I removed the caps near the dac and soldered to those before I thought i'd try this and then soldered to the pads down near the inductors. so now I just need to solder bridge the caps and inductors dont I?? or do I actually need to use a tiny piece of wire to do it?? because I have removed the caps near the dac but then taken the signal down to the 2 service pads under the inductors without removing anything else. but i'm just getting staticy audio._

 

So what is the state of affairs right now? Did you solder bridge the caps and inductors or are there wires from the DAC to the dock? You can bridge the caps and inductors but there is still 100 ohms somewhere in between. And what kind of staticy audio are you getting? Is the music fully present with the addition of static, or is it barely audible music with lots of static? Is your capped dock working okay? Is your amp working okay?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iQEM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well actually the line out from DAC that had been shorted out, that why there's no sound come out of it through line-out...the headphone out doing just fine, my theory is change the DAC then everythin goes back to normal...no need to buy replacement logicboard since it's too expensive for me, just my opinion...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If your friend is as good as you say he is, why not? Try replacing the DAC, and then get the logic board if it doesn't work. It may cost less money right now to try and replace the DAC, but it will save you time and the headache just getting the new logic board.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what is the state of affairs right now? Did you solder bridge the caps and inductors or are there wires from the DAC to the dock? You can bridge the caps and inductors but there is still 100 ohms somewhere in between. And what kind of staticy audio are you getting? Is the music fully present with the addition of static, or is it barely audible music with lots of static? Is your capped dock working okay? Is your amp working okay?_

 

well when I spokje to you then I hadnt yet solder bridged the bits and pieces. thought i'd leave it until I found the source of the 100ohms. the caps above the dac were removed and I had soldered wires to the service pads. the audio was barely present and was like the audio was being played through a vocoder with static on the other channel. I dont know if that means anything to you. but sorry my music production background came to the fore. basically the audio that was there was like it wasa being played through the static rather than there being audio with static over the top of it. you get me??

 i didnt want to waste too much time on it because I know how to do the mod my 'normal way' removing the caps inductors etc. I wanted to move forward; i'll do the other one once I find the 100ohms. yes my amp's and cables (I have more than one of each) are working perfectly (in fact i'm getting sweet sweet music through the DIYMOD and pico right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I'm not sure quite what was going on there; i'm sure you might be able to tell me. but anyway i've fonished another mod even though it involved the removal. I have to do another one today as well. and building another VCAP dock early next week. made these to connect my incoming lisa III to the vcap that I have posted in here before, the one with the piccolino. sorry for the OT guys but i'm pretty happy with these and it kind of relates hehe






 still oving the putty man, I can do many things that were impossible any other way. these are eichmann silver bullets believe it or not. I just used the 'head' of the connector an threw the housing away. my vcap dock has RCA on the back already, so i'm all set for the lisa rig. this time in the mod I used some new wire. I used 34AWG cardas silver in teflon instead of the tonearm wire. it was easier to get a solid connection than with the enamels tonearm wire. so I highly recommend it. i'll post some pics of todays mod later on.

 cheers

 thanks for your help man; I just couldnt be bothered doing it differently today. i'll wait till I have a poke around on the dead logic board for the 100ohms. alls well that ends well


----------



## joneeboi

Man, that's clean work. Without reading the description, I thought those were some kind of niche commercial RCA connectors. Very good stuff, qusp.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, that's clean work. Without reading the description, I thought those were some kind of niche commercial RCA connectors. Very good stuff, qusp._

 

thanks Jon; yeah the putty really is good stuff; with a bit of time and effort shaping, sanding and painting it, you can achieve quite professional results. I still need to trim one of the clear tubing strain reliefs. I have done one already as you can see; doing this only on the top connector so it is more flexible as it has to bend quite sharply to bend back over itself and down to the lisa.


----------



## iQEM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If your friend is as good as you say he is, why not? Try replacing the DAC, and then get the logic board if it doesn't work. It may cost less money right now to try and replace the DAC, but it will save you time and the headache just getting the new logic board._

 

well, that's what i would fear about...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 but thx for the advice, Jon...


----------



## Rico67

Hi everybody.
 Does someone has soon imoded an Nano 3G ?
 i want mod mine as an ipod Video without caps inside and use my Pvcaps or my ALo imod dock cable.
 I have seen the picture on this thread and my questions are :
 Is it difficult to make ?
 I even dont know how open it without make some scarifications !!
 If someone could help me it'll be great.
 Thank joneeboi for this thread.


----------



## Rico67

Does it worth the value to mod a nao 3G ?
 I have rode a post concerning ipod classic where ken says it doesn't worth the value for it, is it the same for Nano 3G ?
 Thank you.


----------



## joneeboi

No one has done a diyMod nano 3G so far in this thread. If you want to know whether it's worthwhile, you're going to have to find out yourself or wait until someone else does it. Vinnie R. said that the classic's output stage was the cleanest he'd seen yet, but that doesn't mean he listened to it and determined it wasn't worthwhile. No one has figured out how to do it on the classic either, so it could very well still be a great mod.


----------



## qusp

I wouldnt be surprised if he just had one go at opening it and after the pain that caused he made up the line that it wasnt worth doing to save himself the trouble. doent the nano 3G have a cirrus logic chip too?? I cant remember


----------



## Rico67

I have open one, so maybe i'll go further to make the mod (as a 5G, without caps in the signal path) due to the size.
 And just for information,
 i have purchase a crazy thing :
 Mundorf sylver/gold/oil caps in 4.7 uf to make a Transportable dock bw Imod and amp.
 i'm waiting for the instance the caps (10 days before disponibility) and then...


----------



## Moontan13

I got my 4G up and running with a new battery, so I was listening to it with Denon D1001s while I reviewed pics of the DIY mod and looked for caps on the 'net.
 Among the Black Gate caps, there seem to be none of the 6v 47uf left. Of caps still in production, which should I use?


 OT: Is it me or does the 4G sound different than the 5.5? Seems warmer in overall SQ.


----------



## Moontan13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldnt be surprised if he just had one go at opening it and after the pain that caused he made up the line that it wasnt worth doing to save himself the trouble. doent the nano 3G have a cirrus logic chip too?? I cant remember_

 

tx 

 Are the Nanos difficult to open?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Moontan13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_tx 

 Are the Nanos difficult to open?_

 

not sure never tried. the classics are though, so if they employ the same techniques to hold them together/closed; then yes they are difficult yo open. I assume you are talking about the 3-4G nanos??


 something very disturbing has happened to me today
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 this morning I wake up to 3 working DIYMODS; perfectly working. but when I tried out one of them before shipping it off to another member I noticed that the hold switch wasnt working. so I opened it up and found the problem straight away and fixed ut. then I closed it back up and I got a drive error. I had installed rockbox 3.1 on the 120gb drive last night, but because it was a 30gb ipod video logic board I couldnt get the 80gb version i=to install and work. so I installed the 30gb version and hey presto it worked. this is after rapid repair had assured me there was no difference in the onboard memory between the 2 (I was certain there was, but I took them at their word. anyway to try and isolate the problem I installed the 120gb drive in one of the other ipods and got the same problem, hmm I thought must be not enough memory to run a 120gb drive, so I installed it in the 80gb one; still no joy. so I put them all back together and now none of them work, I get the sad apple face telling me to contact apple. I am able to set them into disk mode and connect them at which point they all tell me they need to be restored, so I have tried to do that and every time I try it now it goes to do it and then tells me that the ipod is busy and cant be unmounted to perform the restore and then the ipod comes back up with the sad face. i'm about to smash something. the only thing that has changed in any of them is that they have had the 120gb drive with rockbox 3.1 installed in it. no soldering has been done on any of them and i've checked all solder joints for continuity. everything is as it was when they were all working. ,could this drive have ****ed them all up?? do you think that 3.1 could kill all of them?? I had my one working again briefly with its own CF card in it and then when I tried the 120gb drive in it to see if it would work and I could give that ipod to the owner of the 120gb drive it has now stuffed it totally and it is behaving just like the others no matter what drive is installed. I want to kill something.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 :confused face:

 I thought briefly that maybe I had killed them all with static. I cant find my anti static wristband, but today, although a little breezy is nearly 70% humidity, so the chances of a static charge being built up enough to do any damage on a concrete floor on all 3 of them; is beyond the realms of possibility I would think.


----------



## Hayduke

My first troubleshooting effort would be to put one back together in a "stock" configuration and see if it works.

 Maybe you damaged a connector?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My first troubleshooting effort would be to put one back together in a "stock" configuration and see if it works.

 Maybe you damaged a connector?_

 

yeah doing that tomorrow, but that was how the problem spread. I have enough parts to put togethr a 20gb 5g using only the subframe and screen from one of these. but to damage all the connectors seems too much and the sequence for all of them was too much too. after each one was exposed to that drive (not always with that connector it failed too.

 I just dont want to put my fresh 20gb drive (unused from rapidrepair) into one of these ipods. I could put one togethr using an unmodded logic board (unopened) the 20gb drive and one of the screens from one of these unworking ones. and that would surely work, but it wouldnt prove anything. and if there is a problem that is spreading, i'm hesitant to put the fresh drive into one and maybe damage that, or install the fresh logic board in one of these using one of these drives and maybe infect the memory on the logic board; if thats what is going on and it certainly does seem to be whats going on. I could be wrong, maybe I stuffed all 3 up in sequence, but that seems unlikely.


----------



## Moontan13

Try disconnecting the battery from the board, then operate the select button a few times, maybe plug some phones into it to draw off any charges. Reconnect and try again. 

 At work we call this a Johnson/Heimlich.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Moontan13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try disconnecting the battery from the board, then operate the select button a few times, maybe plug some phones into it to draw off any charges. Reconnect and try again. 

 At work we call this a Johnson/Heimlich._

 

thanks for the tip, but yeah I had already tried drawing off any static charge or residual energy with no effect. in fact they are all downstairs now in pieces in hope that will release whatever this ****ing curse is from the system.


----------



## Moontan13

I was thinking about the power draw of the larger drives on the 30gb board. It could be the power is insuffiient to run the drive. Anecdotally I've heard a bigger HDD for a 5G or 5.5 is only possible with a 60gb or 80gb board but I don't know the reason. 

 At this point I'd say check the drives independently with an IDE adapter or USB enclosure. If those check out, the next thing to try is a stock drive from a working unit running iTunes.

 Good luck.


----------



## suicidal_orange

I run an 80gb drive on a 5g 30gb board and it's been fine for nearly a year. As the physical size of the drive doesn't increase (80gb to 120gb) the power required shouldn't increase with drive capacity - not like theres room for extra platters in the small casing, and the newer motor should be more efficient. Don't ask what itunes thinks of this setup though - it was rockboxed before even testing it worked! The 30gb version runs fine on an 80gb board too, so no damage done there.

 If you don't have an ide or usb adaptor for these drives you can use the ipod, just stop the ipod service and disable itunes auto loading when an ipod is attached and it should show up as a normal drive which you can open in disk manager (or other partitioning software of your choice), delete all the partitions and then make a new one of 100mb or so at the begining and full format it - this will error if the part of the drive where the ipod stores it's firmware is damaged. If not the problem must be elsewhere. Delete this partition before running itunes again or it will likely get confused...

 Good luck qusp, I can't believe anyone could kill 3 that quickly - there must be an easy fix


----------



## qusp

alright ive already done as you suggest several times; by puttting into disk mode and trying to mount in disc tools. its only every now and again I can even get it to do that. concentrating on one at the moment a standard 80gb version. when it does mount it comes up as a 2TB disc LOL if only
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 when I try and reformat/initialize the drive it throws an input/output error and fails. last night I found a burr on the 120gb drive drive connector. so i'm thinking that maybe this burr has damaged all three cables as the drive was used in all of them and straight after caused issues with them even when their own drives were installed again. I had an error just like this a while ago and the problem was the flex cable was damaged. They look fine, but I have a way of testing this out for sure today; I have a fresh unopened 20gb drive, a fresh unopened logic board and I can use a subframe, clickwheel and screen from one of these ipods, now if I get the same error then its definitely the cable/s; if not then somehow all 3 drives (one of which is a CF card) are somehow damaged. ****s me how a CF card would get damaged other than electrically and it was far too humid for static to be an issue (70%). all the drives make some attempt to spin up but get caught in a feedback loop but of course the CF card doesnt it just does it almost straight away. I have a pack of 5 drive cables on their way from before this happened, so hopefully they turn up soon. I fail to see how there is any other way that 3 could get damaged like this; the actual mods I did on these are the cleanest I have ever done and tested perfectly there is no shorts or errors in the soldering job on any of them. its all very annoying/strange. I have been thinking of getting a usb convertor to load these drives in for diagnostics etc. this would be perfect for this situation because I could load them without the need for a flex cable.


----------



## Hayduke

Based on some of things you have said, I'm guessing that "messing with iPods" is a little more then just a hobby for you. The USB adapter would probably be a very worthwhile investment considering what you have already invested.


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## NoValidTitle

So I'm thinking about ditching my 5.5g iPod for a 4g and modding it. But I neeeeeeed more storage, would anyone be able to tell me the biggest drive I can fit in a 4g ipod? I found a 250GB Western Digital but I'm not sure if it will go.

 *edit* Don't think I looked for 5 mins and gave up. I looked for a bit and I'm still reading, just thought I would tap into the wonderful insight of the diy people.


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## joneeboi

Why the switch from 5.5G to 4G? The biggest drives I've seen for the 4G are 60GB. If you went with the 5.5G, you could go much higher than that. I don't know if the 160GB drives from the 6G would work, but I know there are 120GB drives that work with the 5.5G.


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## Hayduke

odd...

 I submitted a reply, but now I don't see it.

 I agree with Joneboi, with one other point...

 It's my understanding, based on other's comments not personal experience, that the Wolfson DAC in the 5th gen iPods is a little better then the 4th gens. The only advantage I see to modding a 4th gen is that you can put the caps inside the case. If this is your motivation, then nevermind


----------



## NoValidTitle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why the switch from 5.5G to 4G? The biggest drives I've seen for the 4G are 60GB. If you went with the 5.5G, you could go much higher than that. I don't know if the 160GB drives from the 6G would work, but I know there are 120GB drives that work with the 5.5G._

 

Main reason: I'd like to diymod it and keep all of the guts inside and not have to use a ALO cable or something similar. I was going to wait for Toshiba to release their 240GB drive that will fit in a 5.5g, it was announced in Sept. but I have yet to see it.


----------



## joneeboi

You could use a 64GB CF and leave the caps inside. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And if anyone is interested, the iPod dock breakout board at SparkFun Electronics is back in stock. Give it a whirl. I have a breakout board that I got from Ridax. SparkFun has other really awesome knick-knacks, so order one or the other depending on what you want to pick up along with it.


----------



## NoValidTitle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could use a 64GB CF and leave the caps inside. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And if anyone is interested, the iPod dock breakout board at SparkFun Electronics is back in stock. Give it a whirl. I have a breakout board that I got from Ridax. SparkFun has other really awesome knick-knacks, so order one or the other depending on what you want to pick up along with it._

 

Where does one find a 64GB CF, google didn't turn up much. I didn't see any on ebay or newegg either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish I could rockbox the new classics.


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## qusp

yeah at this stage the 120gb is the largest available. the 240 have been 'coming soon' at rapid repair for ages and when they do you'll be looking at a few hundred dollars. i'm not sure if the logic board on the 4G will allow anything that big. 

 BTW guys I got it all sorted out. my flex cables arrived today and i'm up and working again. I found a bur on the 120gb drives connector and that must've damaged all three cables I had, when I tried it out in them. I tell you what though I wish I could find somewhere to buy those little brown plastic bits that clamp the battery cable in place to the connector. they break all too easily and are easily lost too. i've used little bits of plastic or cardboard as a substitute before but would like a better solution (other than being more careful of course). but I still may invest in a usb/ziff/ide convertor for future use; anyone know where I might get one??


----------



## Rico67

I have try to use an Ipod HD 5G on a special box adaptater (Zif to USB) to use the hard drive has a regular external HD...
 The hard drive is read by the os system , but never run under window.
 If someone knows why, it 'll be usefull.
 Thank.


----------



## Moontan13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rico67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have try to use an Ipod HD 5G on a special box adaptater (Zif to USB) to use the hard drive has a regular external HD...
 The hard drive is read by the os system , but never run under window.
 If someone knows why, it 'll be usefull.
 Thank._

 

Was disk use enabled the last time it was synched?


----------



## Moontan13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ The only advantage I see to modding a 4th gen is that you can put the caps inside the case. If this is your motivation, then nevermind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The 4Gs cost a lot less than 5.5s as do spare parts. For a 1st time DIY Mod, I want to limit my exposure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Capacity isn't a big issue for me as I use 256k files and 20gb is more than enough to hold what I need. Being able to put the caps inside is very desireable as i want to keep it all compact as possible.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rico67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have try to use an Ipod HD 5G on a special box adaptater (Zif to USB) to use the hard drive has a regular external HD...
 The hard drive is read by the os system , but never run under window.
 If someone knows why, it 'll be usefull.
 Thank._

 

having disc use enabled wont do anything once its in its own enclosure; thats just instructions for the ipod to enable it, not the HD itself. I think you probably need to reformat/initialize it using your disk tools. was the ipod formatted as mac or PC format initially?? probably the boot partition is getting in the way if you havent re-formatted it. I just bought one of those too except without the enclosure. Its just one that has a ribbon cable; I just plan to use it as a way of testing/reformatting HD.s I may get one of those enclosures to use with my laptop though. they are nice and small


----------



## Rico67

yes, i'm under Windows, but as there is noway to make the HD read under windows (only in the os) i can't reformat it.
 i think is due to the initial small "apple" partition .
 i think it's impossible to use an used Apple HD as a regular external drive in an enclosure.
 It'll work only for HD witch haven't been initialised with an ipod.
 Maybe i have wrong and wait for your results.


----------



## SidCityMeis

If you have a Toshiba made-for-ipod 80GB hard drive (MK8010GAH or MK8022GAA), there is a thread on HDDguru forum where the members there thought that these models hard drive are protected or locked, and can only be used inside iPods. 
 See discussion here.

 I'm encountering problems with my ipod MK8010GAH drive. I can't seem to transfer more than ~900MB of files (any sort) onto it.

 Even when its inside the iPod, I can't seem to get a reliable scan on the drive.
 (iMod actually, so I'm not going to open up my iPod.)

 I tried so many times I have already lost count.
 Each time I would restore it with iTunes to wipe it clean, enable disk use etc; WinXP's chkdsk (with /f /r options) would report no problem, no bad sectors etc.
 When I start transferring files, either syncing with iTunes, or direct drag and drop, or a mixture of both, everything is fine, until I hit that particular 900MB or so mark. I even tried to do it one file at a time, and in all sort of different order.

 Once I get near that mark, both the iPod and the PC would hang, and I would get a series of ""Windows - Delayed Write Failed" error messages, or "File not found" etc. I encounter the same thing with different PCs, different USB ports, different iPod USB cables... Same thing with or without it being Rockboxed.

 So I'm thinking my hard drive is screwed... (at least I hope that's the problem and not something wrong with the logic board or other connectors).

 I'm going to buy a different model hard drive and send it to Vinnie to replace it for me.


----------



## Rico67

Hi SidcityMeis.
 Yes i think you have right, the Hard is locked.
 Concerning your problem with the size of the files, i think it can be due to the fact that it's limited by the format fat32.
 So, your hard drive run normaly and mines too.
 You have right to don't open your Imod, i have make it many times and now...
 I return it to Vinie for repair !
 I have broke the Zif connector bw HD and mother board.
 And as it's an RWA Imod, cost is quite expensive.


----------



## -=Germania=-

Has no one tried the iPhone/iPod Touch? 

 If someone can confirm whether it works or not, I would be very appreciative. The iPod is the weak link in my setup, but I can't live without my Touch. 

 Anyone?


----------



## Moontan13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ The iPod is the weak link in my setup, but I can't live without my Touch. _

 

The weak link in sound quality?

 It's probably possible to mod those, but I haven't heard of anyone doing it.


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## -=Germania=-

Yeah, it is. I would like to get as close to a at-home DAC as is possible in terms of SQ.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, it is. I would like to get as close to a at-home DAC as is possible in terms of SQ._

 

well I dont know if you'll get much closer than the 5.5G with a decent large capped dock. the iphone/touch output stage is better, but IMO the line-out is about on par, with just a smidge more soundstage on the iphone 3G line-out when compared to the VCAP dock its not a fair fight. not sure how much improvement you would get from the mod on those 2. 

 if you want to go further I would suggest going the external dac route with a box like EFN with iriver. i've started on a similar solution with the gamma1 in a larger enclosure with battery power; also thinking of upgrading the caps because I will have room. its gonna take me a while to finish the rig tyhough as there is a bit of R&D to go on first as well as the rest of my life that is competing for my audio bliss time of late


----------



## qusp

thought i'd add another pic; do with it as you see fit Jon. It was an absolute PITA peeling the old clickwheel assembly off and putting it on the clear button. next time i'll just buy a new clickwheel assembly









 love these clear panels; makes it SOOOOO much easier for me to explain what is going on with my ipod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this one is 120gb too, designed for transportable 

 also a couple of VCAP docks this one with USB charge/sync, 4.7uf OIMP VCAPs and 0.47uf teflon in tin foil Bypass caps (TFTF) and those cables I posted a while ago.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 this one is 'just' OIMP in 4.7uf and OT man the kramer mod SPC re-cabled Koss just scale soooo well with a proper source. this is a swiss army knife dock with mini I/O as well as LOD in and RCA out; was a bit of a squeeze, but all went according to plan.






 I really need to get myself some nicer rubber bands and before anyone says anything; yes i'm aware that the RCA to mini is extremely tight in this pic; I have remedied this with a new cable, this one is for another combo


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## ludoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have a digital multimeter? In the mini 2G I had, you sent the signal to L7 and L8 as FallenAngel showed us.

*FallenAngel's diyMod mini 2G*
 Notice the destination of the wires at L7 and L8





 It could be different in the mini 1G, so you'd have to double check the continuity to be completely sure._

 

Sorry to resurrect an old post, but I just got a mini 2G and will diymod it soon. I don't really understand the pic above: do the wire go from C53/C54 to C59/C60? Leaving L7 and L8 alone or removing them like explained here? And the result is I'll have a diymodded line out on the connector?

 BTW I added this thread to my search engine, as the diymod's success makes navigating through it really hard, despite the excellent work of the OP. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The search engine is in my sig.


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## suicidal_orange

Haha! Thats the first time one of my posts has been linked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All I can say is I did as that post says and it still works great after nearly 6 months - the standard line out pins are modded.

 Don't worry about bumping threads as big as this, there's far too much info in here to be lost on page 7


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## nic6paul

I am looking to do this to my 1st gen Ipod mini and I had a question of what to remove and where to mount the new wires. By looking at the photo it appears I remove c53 and c54 and attach the wires there, but do I just connect them at the dock connector on an open pin? Perhaps pin 14 and 17. Also what pin on the dock will I want to use as a ground when I build my new dock connector? Thanks!


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## joneeboi

ludoo:

 You can get rid of the L7/L8 inductors or you can leave them. When you solder to that part of the C69/C70, the inductors don't affect the circuit. And thanks for adding us to your search engine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 nic6paul:

 When you remove the capacitors and send the wires to the pads, you don't need to connect anything to the dock because those particular capacitor pads already lead to the dock, pins 3 and 4. If you want though, you can grab the signal straight from the DAC and send it to the open pins if you're really fixed on the idea.


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## ludoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *suicidal_orange* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha! Thats the first time one of my posts has been linked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All I can say is I did as that post says and it still works great after nearly 6 months - the standard line out pins are modded._

 

Let's hope mine works too. I just did the mod, but after 10 days the Qables connectors are not here yet. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ludoo:

 You can get rid of the L7/L8 inductors or you can leave them. When you solder to that part of the C69/C70, the inductors don't affect the circuit. And thanks for adding us to your search engine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, thanks to you for a very useful thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I left the inductors in place, this is what I did






 If you see anything out of place, please tell me. The cables are 28awg from a Mogami mini dual mic cable.


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## FallenAngel

I think you should remove those caps, my full mod is in post 991


----------



## ludoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you should remove those caps_

 

All four of them?


----------



## nic6paul

I finished my mod on my ipod 1st gen mini. Soldering those little wires is something else. I did test the line out even though I didnt have my caps yet and it seems to all be working just fine. 

 Couple of questions:

 In this diagram done by bmwpowere36m3 he cuts the traces from DZP1 that are going to C69 and C70. I was wondering is this necessary as I haven't seen this done on other mini diymods. My assumption is if I left those traces be all I would have to add to my dock is the caps on the line out R and L traces to the jack and not have to add resistors like he did on his dock?
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4977965-post1555.html

 And second question:
 Any suggestion on what value caps to get for use with a 41hz T amp?
LINK TO AMP


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ludoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All four of them?_

 

Just C69 and C70.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nic6paul* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finished my mod on my ipod 1st gen mini. Soldering those little wires is something else. I did test the line out even though I didnt have my caps yet and it seems to all be working just fine._

 

That's great to hear. Welcome to the club. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nic6paul* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In this diagram done by bmwpowere36m3 he cuts the traces from DZP1 that are going to C69 and C70. I was wondering is this necessary as I haven't seen this done on other mini diymods. My assumption is if I left those traces be all I would have to add to my dock is the caps on the line out R and L traces to the jack and not have to add resistors like he did on his dock?
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4977965-post1555.html_

 

The series resistors on the line out are meant to protect the DAC from the effects of shorting the output. A resistance to ground doesn't achieve the same thing. As far as I know, no one here really knows what the DZP is there for (it was suggested at headwize that it was a zener diode), but it doesn't seem to hurt anything when you remove it. The datasheets for the Wolfsons say the the resistors are there to "protect the line outputs from damage when used improperly." I assume that means the effects of shorting the output when unplugging the mini TRS plugs. Maybe it would be a good idea for this thread to venture into the hifi resistor area of audio.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nic6paul* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ And second question:
 Any suggestion on what value caps to get for use with a 41hz T amp?
LINK TO AMP_

 

What caps were you talking about?


----------



## nic6paul

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What caps were you talking about?_

 

I was referring to the DC blocking caps on the lineout of the ipod. I didn't know if there was a certain value that would be better suited for a home audio system. My buddy who helps me out with all my audio questions is out of town. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have read decent reviews on these caps Obbligato Film Oil Caps | Diy HiFi Supply

 I was just unsure what value to buy.

 By the way thanks for the great thread, the photos are a huge help!


----------



## ludoo

Ok, I removed the caps from my mini, and to be on the safe side I removed all four. I also got a cheap USB iphone cable in Chinatown and cannibalized it to build a ghetto LOD while I wait for my Qables order to get here.

 I used the same caps which are the default in the BantamDAC, a pair of Vishay Roederstein MKT 1.0uF, as I have a few and I did not have the time to rescue the Blackgates NX from my broken Alien. Sound is very detailed and treble oriented, and with less soundstage than my other Alien, but I suspect the caps need a few hours of burning in. I will probably get some Sonicaps or Obbligato (which I have in my Starving Students and like a lot).

 So far so good, thanks a lot for the help.


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## qusp

the sound is treble oriented because 1uf is nowhere near enough. even with an amp with a 50k pot 1uf will result in bass rolloff. I use at least 3.3muf but to be safe usually 4.7uf burn-in WILL NOT fix your problem


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## ludoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the sound is treble oriented because 1uf is nowhere near enough. even with an amp with a 50k pot 1uf will result in bass rolloff. I use at least 3.3muf but to be safe usually 4.7uf burn-in WILL NOT fix your problem_

 

The amp I'm using has a 100k pot.


----------



## ludoo

I have to say I'm a bit underwhelmed by the diymod sound: tonight I made a LOD with the Blackgates NX I had in my broken Alien, so as to compare the diymod sound to the Alien (I have 2, one still working) with the same caps. The sound is detailed, but more congested and much less smooth than the Alien, with slightly grating or harsh treble. I'm not saying it sounds bad, just less refined and pleasant, but it certainly sounds better than any DAPs I tried.

 I will probably keep it as my office is full of RF interferences and USB DACs sound pretty bad, and get some 4.7uF Obbligato caps which should improve the sound. But I have to say I expected a bit more after all I read.

 Edit: keep in mind I'm using it with planar (ortho) headphones, which are very revealing and hyperfast


----------



## nic6paul

So I am doing a bit of studying and trying to learn. I am trying to decide which caps to use in my LOD that would be suited best for my 41hz tripath amplifier not a headphone amp like most in this thread are using. I have a 50k pot in my amp. So I was doing some math using the corner frequency formula and for a 10uf cap I got the value of .3183hz which is well below audible levels. No I was wondering will that cap suffice. Should I go with a lower value and not have much bass roll off? Sorry for all the newb questions but that is exactly what I am. I am good with a soldering iron, just not to knowledgeable about hifi audio. My engineering buddy usually does all my audio calculations I just build everything. Hes the brains lol. But haven't seen him since he got married


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ludoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to say I'm a bit underwhelmed by the diymod sound: tonight I made a LOD with the Blackgates NX I had in my broken Alien, so as to compare the diymod sound to the Alien (I have 2, one still working) with the same caps. The sound is detailed, but more congested and much less smooth than the Alien, with slightly grating or harsh treble. I'm not saying it sounds bad, just less refined and pleasant, but it certainly sounds better than any DAPs I tried.

 I will probably keep it as my office is full of RF interferences and USB DACs sound pretty bad, and get some 4.7uF Obbligato caps which should improve the sound. But I have to say I expected a bit more after all I read.

 Edit: keep in mind I'm using it with planar (ortho) headphones, which are very revealing and hyperfast_

 

hehe yet another victim of hype. the diymod sounds great....for a dap. comparing it to dedicated dacs with room for larger parts and a better PSU is really not a fair comparison. with great caps; which to be honest BG ARE NOT, it is possible to end up with a really nice sounding rig. but a portable rig nonetheless; and therefor bound by the size and power constraints that are placed on a portable rig. the ipod was never designed to be a hifi device; all we can do is squeeze the most we can out of the parts that are installed. Dont get me wrong; I love my DIYMOD and VCAP rig with my lisa III, but its simply does not compare to my RME and niether should it be expected to. but using better caps should increase the performance in the highs. BG are not known for their sparkling highs; more their bass.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nic6paul* 
_So I am doing a bit of studying and trying to learn. I am trying to decide which caps to use in my LOD that would be suited best for my 41hz tripath amplifier not a headphone amp like most in this thread are using. I have a 50k pot in my amp. So I was doing some math using the corner frequency formula and for a 10uf cap I got the value of .3183hz which is well below audible levels. No I was wondering will that cap suffice. Should I go with a lower value and not have much bass roll off? Sorry for all the newb questions but that is exactly what I am. I am good with a soldering iron, just not to knowledgeable about hifi audio. My engineering buddy usually does all my audio calculations I just build everything. Hes the brains lol. But haven't seen him since he got married_

 

10uf will be fine. in fact I would get something smaller if I were you. that way you may get a faster sound. with your 10uf bass roll-off wont start until 3hz; MP3 only goes down to 20hz in a stereo signal, so that means 10hz per channel, so you could safely use as small as 1.6uf with an amp with 50k impedance.


----------



## ludoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hehe yet another victim of hype. the diymod sounds great....for a dap. comparing it to dedicated dacs with room for larger parts and a better PSU is really not a fair comparison. with great caps; which to be honest BG ARE NOT, it is possible to end up with a really nice sounding rig. but a portable rig nonetheless; and therefor bound by the size and power constraints that are placed on a portable rig. the ipod was never designed to be a hifi device; all we can do is squeeze the most we can out of the parts that are installed. Dont get me wrong; I love my DIYMOD and VCAP rig with my lisa III, but its simply does not compare to my RME and niether should it be expected to. but using better caps should increase the performance in the highs. BG are not known for their sparkling highs; more their bass._

 

Thanks for the very honest and sensible reply, I totally agree with what you wrote and I'd love to see more like this on HF. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well to be fair the diymod has a couple of pros that make a lot of sense for the use I'll put it to: it costs about the same as an Alien (paid little more than 20 euros for the iPod, another 20-30 for new caps and connectors); it's battery powered, so it won't suffer from the hellish line noises I have at my office like USB DACs; it doubles as a DAP. So I have to say that overall I'm pretty satisfied with its performance, and it will tide me over until I get a better DAC which, given the state of my wallet, will take some time.

 As for caps, yes I know BGs are not the best choice. I just had them around and wanted to compare the diymod with the Alien using the same caps. Now that I have listened to it for a few hours last night, I have a better idea on how I'd like to tune its sound: I'd like more warmth, a more analog sound, a bit more presence in the low end and less in the treble. All for as little money as possible. I initially planned on getting some Obbligato caps, which I have in my SS and love, but I had a quick look at the cap comparison on Humble Homemade Hifi, and the Amp Ohm FP-CA-AU looks like a good choice on paper: cheap (5£ for the 6.8uF), smooth and with a warm midrange. If they manage to tame the treble harshness a bit and smooth the sound, I'll be a very happy diymodder indeed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again for your really nice reply, it should be mandatory reading for all prospective diymod and imod users.


----------



## qusp

yeah again; I love my rig and until I finish my iriver plus gamma1 project IMO there is no other DAP I have heard that comes close. but I see people on here all the time that are disappointed when their ipod rig doesnt sound as good as their home rig. there is a price point where portable rigs stop being better value than home rigs if you are not using them portable. people seem to come into this porta-fi with unreasonable expectations and are therefor disappointed when they find that it doesnt have quite the performance of a home rig costing $1000+; at $500 I think you would be hard pressed to beat a DIYMOD plus decent amp still and the fact that you can carry it with you is the clincher for me (although the price of my rig has another digit). I dont think its wise to buy a portable rig primarily for home use, unless you are short on cash and cant afford 2 rigs. but also below a certain price-point I think you would find it difficult to compete with a DIYMOD rig on a price/performance ratio.

 I still think that my diymod->TEFLON VCAP->lisa III rig competes well with some home rigs costing about the same (about $1500 in parts); but a well chosen Dac plus amp for the same money would outperform it. Not all rigs for that money would (simply because the lisa III is so stellar); and keep in mind that I would be using an already existing transport (my Mac) and I would have to make some nice cables too; so it would probably sound better well definitely, but it would probably also cost more and the price would not include the transport. so all things being equal it may be a close call still; with the edge still going to the home rig.


----------



## ludoo

Well, my home setup is a boutique Starving Student which cost about 100-120 euro in parts, and an Alien DAC. I don't think there's many portable amps sounding better than the SS, at least for the sound I like (deep bass, warm mids, great soundstage). And tubes+mosfets pair exceptionally well with ortho phones. Of course, if I fit better caps on the diymod (I will) it will get better, but so will the Alien. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to spend more than 200-250 on a portable rig, unless you spend most of your time outside or travelling. But then, to each his own and (repeating myself) I'm pretty happy with my diymod. Ok, end of OT digression.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ludoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snip/ I don't think it makes a lot of sense to spend more than 200-250 on a portable rig, unless you spend most of your time outside or travelling./snip_

 

totally!! which I do; or if you already have a great home rig and want something decent to bring with you. $250 is a bit harsh though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway back on topic has anyone ordered the new 240gb drive yet??


----------



## ludoo

A quick update on my diymod: I brought it at the office, connected it to my office SS, and.... finally I'm able to listen to music without getting lots of RF interference and noise from the laptop USB supply and surrounding electronic equipment. It's exactly what I hoped, now I can't wait for the better caps to get here.

 Thanks again to all of you for this great thread.


----------



## ludoo

Just got my reasonably cheap caps from the UK, and they are HUGE






 Will have to get a box for them, in the meantime I'll do another ghetto LOD.

 Edit: been listening to them for the past half hour, and the diymod sounds like a different source with them: much much better and smoother sound, more "analog", and the treble harshness has disappeared. And they should get better after about a hundred hours. Again, thanks for this great thread.


----------



## speedingredline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_totally!! which I do; or if you already have a great home rig and want something decent to bring with you. $250 is a bit harsh though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway back on topic has anyone ordered the new 240gb drive yet??_

 

What 240gb drive?


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ludoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my reasonably cheap caps from the UK, and they are HUGE

 (IMG linked snipped)http://qix.it/site_media/headfi/diymod_caps.jpg

 Will have to get a box for them, in the meantime I'll do another ghetto LOD.

 Edit: been listening to them for the past half hour, and the diymod sounds like a different source with them: much much better and smoother sound, more "analog", and the treble harshness has disappeared. And they should get better after about a hundred hours. Again, thanks for this great thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Where did you get those? lol


----------



## ludoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you get those? lol_

 

I got them from Audiocap in UK. They are the first caps described in the Humble Homemade review, and since they cost less than half the Obbligatos (which I have in my Starving Student and love) and about 1/20 what the top Mundorf cost, they have an excellent cost/quality ratio.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *speedingredline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What 240gb drive?_

 

RapidRepair: 240GB Hard Drive for iPod Video (MK2431GAH)

 Also, sweet caps, ludoo. I like their size/size-of-iPod ratio.


----------



## speedingredline

I went searching last night and found it. I am now thinking I will just upgrade one of my 80gb ipods with the 240gb HD, and skip the 2nd gen ipod touch.

 On a different note is there a detailed explanation of the purpose of the vcap docks, and how to build your own?


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *speedingredline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On a different note is there a detailed explanation of the purpose of the vcap docks, and how to build your own?_

 

Same purpose as any other dock and exactly same way to build.


----------



## joneeboi

VCap docks are meant block DC, just like every other capped dock. It's just safer and more mechanically sound to put them inside a case because of their large size and the finickiness of airwiring RCA jacks.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_RapidRepair: 240GB Hard Drive for iPod Video (MK2431GAH)

 Also, sweet caps, ludoo. I like their size/size-of-iPod ratio._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_VCap docks are meant block DC, just like every other capped dock. It's just safer and more mechanically sound to put them inside a case because of their large size and the finickiness of airwiring RCA jacks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hmmm yes airwiring RCA jacks without a case would be very finicky 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 personally i'm gonna wait for the price to drop on those 240gb. I dont need the upgrade from 120gb that badly. still; very interesting though.

 no-one has done a step by step for the VCAP dock because its basically a LOD with a box in the middle; it requires no extra steps other than the termination type, but thats pretty logical progression, unless you want to use the space to add a battery pack as well for charging the ipod while you are using it. but in general there isnt really any room for that kind of thing. on the hammond I use you cant even have a mini at one end and RCA at the other without grinding them dowm, and you need to grind the strip that would normally hold PCB's in place away so the caps fit.


----------



## speedingredline

So an LOD will suffice? I don't really want to add an extra box to the mix. I would prefer to keep it to the Diymod and an amp.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *speedingredline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So an LOD will suffice? I don't really want to add an extra box to the mix. I would prefer to keep it to the Diymod and an amp._

 

well it depends on your priorities; yes they are basically the same design; but the caps are worlds apart in quality. Blackgates are only really used because of the size constraints of being used inside the ipod or an LOD. they are good sounding caps; but given more room there is no way I would use them; pretty much any film cap of reasonable quality will beat a blackgate hands down.


----------



## speedingredline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well it depends on your priorities; yes they are basically the same design; but the caps are worlds apart in quality. Blackgates are only really used because of the size constraints of being used inside the ipod or an LOD. they are good sounding caps; but given more room there is no way I would use them; pretty much any film cap of reasonable quality will beat a blackgate hands down._

 

Thanks for the info. I guess I am gonna have to read this entire thread from start to finish. I think I will just stick with the LOD as I don't want my rig to be any larger than it has to be.


----------



## AudioCats

finally got it done after a long long delay. 

 The mod was straight forward, though the desoldering of SMD parts was a little scary, as I don't have thermal-tweezers at home (and didn't want to wait two more days to use the thermal-tweezer at work). I ended up having to literally "burn" the parts off the board. 






 I guess I had too much a high hope on the ipods (supposedly, with a top of the line dock it will "rival $1000 CD players"). Well, the sound is more or less the same level as my modded CD changers, different but not really better. This is with the iPod and CD changer using similar output caps (Vitamin-Q bypassed with teflon). 
 Comparing to other portable/tranportable sources, the SQ performence of the modded iPod/dock is similar to a properly modded all-metal Discman PCDP (again, all with Vit-Q/teflon output), which is larger than the Ipod/Dock combo. Still pretty nice sound for such a tiny little box, though it is not exactly tiny anymore, after adding the dock box.

 I want to say thank-you to all contributers for posting the detailed info (here and on the web) and making this mod so do-able.


----------



## pcyl

well ipod mod sure sounds good and sound better than playstation 
 one mod cd player


----------



## sputnik13

If I follow the method for modding a G5 ipod that's shown in page 1 and on aaron's page, from what I can understand so far I will lose the headphone output, is this correct? Is there no good way to retain the headphone out like RWA does with G5?

 I ask because I got a used 30G G5 for $20, and the headphone out is flaky. I assume it's something that can easily be resolved by replacing the headphone out cable from the board to the chassis, but I don't want to bother doing that if I can't have headphone out anyway, being that the main purpose for getting this used G5 was to do the mod.


----------



## AudioCats

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well ipod mod sure sounds good and sound better than playstation 
 one mod cd player_

 


 what kind of mod did you do to the PS one? To me, the DIY mod'ed 5G actually sounds similar to a modded PS-101 (the little white playstation), relativly even and flat, Vs. the SCPH-1001's more meaty/full-mids sound. 

 I will have to say I still prefer a modded big playstation one (1001) over the modded iPod (when both are using the same kind of output caps). Of course, a playstation one is huge comparing to the iPod/dock combo.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sputnik13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I follow the method for modding a G5 ipod that's shown in page 1 and on aaron's page, from what I can understand so far I will lose the headphone output, is this correct? Is there no good way to retain the headphone out like RWA does with G5?

 I ask because I got a used 30G G5 for $20, and the headphone out is flaky. I assume it's something that can easily be resolved by replacing the headphone out cable from the board to the chassis, but I don't want to bother doing that if I can't have headphone out anyway, being that the main purpose for getting this used G5 was to do the mod._

 

no if you follow the mod on this thread you will retain the HP out aarons one you lose it though. thats why this one is superior.

 BTW sweet deal on the ipod


----------



## sputnik13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no if you follow the mod on this thread you will retain the HP out aarons one you lose it though. thats why this one is superior.

 BTW sweet deal on the ipod_

 

Thanks, I saw the deal on craigslist and jumped on it.

 So what threw me off with the guide on page 1 was that the picture said to remove the capacitors adjacent to the DAC, but the text I guess doesn't say that, it says to solder to the pad and doesn't mention desoldering the capacitor. So by leaving those capacitors there rather than removing it, I would have the headphone out while also having the direct line out from the DAC, am I correct?

 Which kind of got me wondering, why not route the outputs from the DAC to one of the other pins on the dock connector, like one of the firewire pins. Wouldn't that allow you to use the iPod with standard docks (like say you have a car with an ipod adapter) while still being able to get the direct lineout from the DAC? I'll be using this with a PC only so I know for sure I'll never use the firewire.


----------



## suicidal_orange

That really was a great find!

 As you say if you wire the top connections to some other pins on the dock (not the firewire ones, there are other pins that aren't used at all) while leaving the caps intact you would have standard line out, modded line out and normal headphone out. Also you can use pins spaced further apart making building an LOD easier. Good luck soldering onto the pins directly though, they are VERY close together.

 The headphone circuit is totally separate to the line out so even if you remove the caps it will still work, a useful backup if your amp dies while out


----------



## EFN

The last few days I have been experimenting on Elna SILMIC 4.7uf 50V and Nichicon MUSE 3.3 uF. I have to say I am impressed with the SILMIC caps - even not burned in yet shows a lot of promise. I have used V-Caps OIMPs, Mundorf ZN, BGs and a few others before, the SILMIC proved to be a very strong contender in comparison. Considering the small size I'd say most likely this will be a permanent choice for my DIY iPods application. The MUSE LOD is still being tested and I can't conclusively decide if I like them at all - but time will tell.

















 PS:
 LODs used on both DIYipod 4g & 5g


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sputnik13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I follow the method for modding a G5 ipod that's shown in page 1 and on aaron's page, from what I can understand so far I will lose the headphone output, is this correct? Is there no good way to retain the headphone out like RWA does with G5?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no if you follow the mod on this thread you will retain the HP out aarons one you lose it though. thats why this one is superior._

 

I don't know where aaronylee got the idea that the HP jack is affected, but it is not. He says it does, but it should not. The HP jack and line out are the same signal, but they branch off inside the DAC and are routed to different pins. Doing aaron's method or my method will not disable your headphone jack.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sputnik13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what threw me off with the guide on page 1 was that the picture said to remove the capacitors adjacent to the DAC, but the text I guess doesn't say that, it says to solder to the pad and doesn't mention desoldering the capacitor. So by leaving those capacitors there rather than removing it, I would have the headphone out while also having the direct line out from the DAC, am I correct?_

 

That method is obselete. I've changed my recommendation to leaving the capacitors intact near the DAC and leaving the inductors in as well. This allows for a more solid connection for your wires and overall better structural integrity. It's hard to lift a pad when the caps and inductors are still in, so leave them in.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sputnik13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which kind of got me wondering, why not route the outputs from the DAC to one of the other pins on the dock connector, like one of the firewire pins. Wouldn't that allow you to use the iPod with standard docks (like say you have a car with an ipod adapter) while still being able to get the direct lineout from the DAC? I'll be using this with a PC only so I know for sure I'll never use the firewire._

 

There are few rules in DIY. I personally would rather keep it to the regular line out pins for better compatibility with existing LODs, say you go to a head-fi meet and want to swap LODs, but that isn't everyone's cup of tea. Pick whichever pins you like.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

I really like the construction on this dock, EFN. It looks very secure.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That method is obselete. I've changed my recommendation to leaving the capacitors intact near the DAC and leaving the inductors in as well. This allows for a more solid connection for your wires and overall better structural integrity. It's hard to lift a pad when the caps and inductors are still in, so leave them in._

 

Good thing I read this before starting - would you be updating the first page anyway?


----------



## joneeboi

I've added a disclaimer to the front page for the new wiring method. Please help spread the word.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've added a disclaimer to the front page for the new wiring method. Please help spread the word. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 That's a sound advice. I have a nightmare modding session where the stock caps lead were damaged accidentally in removal process. Luckily I managed to solder *directly* to the DAC analogue pin out (VERY tiny!!) on my 5G. Takes a good magnifying glass and pin pointed solder to make them work. Then I sealed them off with a good dose of hot glue to secure. Almost toasted my 5G fooooh..


----------



## Ron.id

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The last few days I have been experimenting on Elna SILMIC 4.7uf 50V and Nichicon MUSE 3.3 uF. I have to say I am impressed with the SILMIC caps - even not burned in yet shows a lot of promise. I have used V-Caps OIMPs, Mundorf ZN, BGs and a few others before, the SILMIC proved to be a very strong contender in comparison.




_

 

Excuse me.... am I crazy here or I read it wrong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You said that SILMIC electrolytics proved to be a *very strong contender* with non-electrolytic capacitors, paper-in-oil as V-Caps or Mundorf for signals?


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sputnik13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, I saw the deal on craigslist and jumped on it.

 So what threw me off with the guide on page 1 was that the picture said to remove the capacitors adjacent to the DAC, but the text I guess doesn't say that, it says to solder to the pad and doesn't mention desoldering the capacitor. So by leaving those capacitors there rather than removing it, I would have the headphone out while also having the direct line out from the DAC, am I correct?

 Which kind of got me wondering, why not route the outputs from the DAC to one of the other pins on the dock connector, like one of the firewire pins. Wouldn't that allow you to use the iPod with standard docks (like say you have a car with an ipod adapter) while still being able to get the direct lineout from the DAC? I'll be using this with a PC only so I know for sure I'll never use the firewire._

 

Ruzz.il did that. He routed the bypassed signal to unused dock pins. He decided the difficulty in soldering was not worth it. (or at least that's what I recall) If you do send the signal to alternative pins, then you will obviously have to make your own LOD, and only that LOD will make use of your mod.

 You pointed out some advantages such as using stock docking stations and LODs etc, but the other advantage is being able to compare the modded and unmodded signal.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ron.id* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excuse me.... am I crazy here or I read it wrong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You said that SILMIC electrolytics proved to be a *very strong contender* with non-electrolytic capacitors, paper-in-oil as V-Caps or Mundorf for signals?_

 

Yes you heard me right. I am speaking from actual working experience with those caps (Mundorf ZN 4.7uF 250V, V-Caps OIMPs 4.7 & 6.8 uF) - the SILMIC does offer solid performance in contrast. I did not say that they are outright superior but definitely they did not pale in contrast. Not even the BG Hi-Qs can claim this specially against the V-Caps.


----------



## moophus

My first post here on Head-Fi so be understanding.

 some background: I've never considered myself an audiophile but I do appreciate music and it's proper reproduction. I can remember the joy of discovering stereo output on my old 8 bit gameboy when I plugged in headphones into it. Also when audio cd's were just starting to go mainstream I found out about the SPARS code and would specifically buy albums just to hear its quality. I've always been fascinated with headphones, of all sorts.
 I guess my audiophile'ness is really limited to my poor budget and really, I just enjoy music as it is fed to me and I'm really not anal about it.

 Well, why am I posting here? in this thread? because I have proudly modded my 4g.

 I picked up a used and broken one for $15 from some online forum. I purchased it for the sole purpose of using it my car as a music box. (USAspec ipod adapter for my honda accord) It was a dead drive deal so I obtained a converter and crammed in a CF card and tossed it into my car, never giving it another thought.

 fast forward a year or so.

 I picked up a Sansa Clip, generally known for its clean output. Soon after I began hearing things in my music (or the absence of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and was quite entertained. One day on the road, I wanted to hear something on my Clip that wasn't on my ipod so I plugged it into the line in of the USAspec module. HOLY SMOKES, it sounded good. I started to go through all my music in my car with the ipod and then with the clip. BIG difference. I was RUINED. I began to hate my 4g Ipod and it's muddled, filtered and violated output but I just couldn't give up the convenience of steering wheel controls. I played with the equalizer and it just sounded worse.

 Fast forward a few months up to last night. I found this thread. This wonderful wonderful thread....discovered at 10pm on February 25th 2009. By 12:30am, my ipod was Modded. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now keep in mind this is for my CAR so don't criticize too much, but I cannibalized an old discarded modem for it's caps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They were 22uf 50v badboyz. I don't even think they had a brand. I also ripped two strands of wire from an 80 pin IDE ATA cable that worked AWESOME for it's flexibility and tininess.

 The only hitch I had was I dePadded one of the contacts coming out of the DAC but I made do by scratching the resin off the PCB over the trace just to get an adequate purchase on the contact. *Whew* it actually worked. For a moment there the white flag was coming out of the bag to be unfurled.

 With fingers crossed I plugged it into my car and tested it out. (don't have a LOD for headphones) It worked! Sure enough, the output is DRASTICALLY better and noticeably more dynamic, even with my untrained ear. It's hard to describe but the only word I can come up with is CLARITY. Even adjustments to the equalizer were effective in improving the sound, before it was like attempting to patch up a burnt dinner.....impossible. (I'm using all stock components -- actually the 2003+ accords have relatively decent equipment)

 Well, that's all I have to share. I just wanted to pipe in and give everyone on here a big thank you for your knowledge and experience of this whole project.

 Now I'll go crawl back into my hiding cave.

 cheers.

 Jason


----------



## moophus

Let me add one thing I forgot, a buddy of mine (I believe he's a lurker here) showed me his modded ipod about a month ago. He had someone do it for him and it sounded really nice. I guess that gave me the idea of actually doing something with my ipod but it wasn't until last night when a google search landed me here. So it's partly his fault for ruining me.


----------



## ludoo

Really nice recounting of your modding and what brought you to perform it. Welcome to HF, get some nice caps (plenty of cheap film caps that will be 100x better than those you are using), and sorry about your wallet.


----------



## joneeboi

Thank you for your post, Jason. It's stories like yours that get me out of bed in the morning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad to hear you could hear a difference. Your story is quite a powerful one. Don't stop sharing it.

 And good job on getting the diyMod done despite the lifted pad. That's quite a crushing blow to come back from. Kudos.


----------



## joneeboi

I've fixed jERiCOh's corner frequency calculator. There was a decimal error that has since been adjusted to adhere to reality as I know it.


----------



## EFN

[size=x-large]*iRiver H140/120 DIY Mod*[/size]

 And so I decided that my H140 gonna get the same treatment as my modded iPods.

*Caps used:*
 Elna Cerafine 47uf 6.3V (Line Out)
 Elna SILMIC II 47uF 16V (Headphone Out)

 As you can see I am modding both the Line Out and Headphone Out.
 Pics says a thousand words





 * The venerable Elna Cerafine






























 * There's enough room in the H140 for four caps!

*Sound Impression so far:*
 Awesome! this baby have the potential to knock off my modded 5G. Let's see how it goes after 200 hours.


----------



## kokohore

I have tried the mod on a Mini 2G, today.







 Simply C53-C69 and C54-C70 are shorted. Caps and inductors are left there.
 Wires; solid 30AWG (from navships)

  Quote:


 F.A iPod mini 2G - done by FallenAngel
 Notice - Do not remove caps and inductors. Simply solder wires to and from the correct pads. Removing C's and L's will increase the risk of lifting the pads and disabling any type of audio output from your logic board. 
 

So I wouldn't worry about removing these tiny caps, right?


----------



## Copperjacket

Blimey EFN that looks awesome - interested to see how that pans out after burn-in


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=x-large]*iRiver H140/120 DIY Mod*[/size]

 And so I decided that my H140 gonna get the same treatment as my modded iPods.

*Caps used:*
 Elna Cerafine 47uf 6.3V (Line Out)
 Elna SILMIC II 47uF 16V (Headphone Out)

 As you can see I am modding both the Line Out and Headphone Out.
 Pics says a thousand words

 [IG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/EFN/Mod02.jpg[/IMG]
 * The venerable Elna Cerafine

 [IM]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/EFN/Mod01.jpg[/IMG]

 [IG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/EFN/Mod03.jpg[/IMG]

 [IG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/EFN/Mod04.jpg[/IMG]

 [IG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/EFN/Mod05.jpg[/IMG]

 [IG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/EFN/Mod06.jpg[/IMG]





 * There's enough room in the H140 for four caps!

*Sound Impression so far:*
 Awesome! this baby have the potential to knock off my modded 5G. Let's see how it goes after 200 hours._

 

nice one EFN, when I saw your post in the D10 thread (on my iphone email, so no pics) with 4 caps, I thought you must have either been using bypass caps or maybe upgraded the caps on the power rail as well, but it seems just HP out, if only we had that much room to work with in ipod.


----------



## dencio69

Hi guys,

 I was wondering if anyone knows what the capacitors to the upper left of the dac are for? i accidentally knocked the encircled one off from the board. the sound output is still good. nothing happened. im just curios if anyone knows what it is really for. thanks

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...o22/th_dac.jpg (dac.jpg picture by dencio22 - Photobucket)

 more power!

 gino


----------



## joneeboi

Hey, we got a shout-out on Tarkam's site. Yay! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Consider it a Reader's Digest version of this thread. It was written by gueri_fr, a member that combined both the CF mod and the diyMod.

Modding: Audiophile meets iPod (diyMod) » Tarkan Akdam’s BORED


----------



## nightanole

I hate to ask this but due to the age of the thread and the variety of caps im confused. I have scored a 1st gen nano, i took apart my broke fm transmitter (it uses a cord to connect to the ipod, not a dock and its got all the wiring i need. Without having any size constraints, and using a diy amp (starving student) with 50k pot and 47k resistors at the input, What would be the recommended caps from a place with cheap shipping since i will only be ordering 2 caps?

 If the calc is right, and i have a 50k input, and i use a .22uf cap, then i could use some beezar caps or the bypass caps from the starving student build. If a 50k pot means 50k input impedance.


----------



## joneeboi

You can order from Digikey and Mouser for pretty cheap. Hit up parts conneXion if you want to get fancy.


----------



## nightanole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can order from Digikey and Mouser for pretty cheap. Hit up parts conneXion if you want to get fancy._

 

Well mouser is 7 bucks min for shipping. The best ive found from mouser is 100uf kz muses for 30 cents each. 

 From beezar i can get Elna Cerafine 47uf for a buck each and $2.09 shipping.


 also what are some thoughts on some .22uf bypass caps like the wima's or vitamin q's?


----------



## joneeboi

Beezar's a good place to shop. Tom's a great guy, he'll get you fitted up.

 Bypassing with tiny caps is a technique used to pass higher frequencies through the signal path more easily. There are loads of comments regarding the Wimas and Vitamin Qs in the Millett MAX thread. From what I can remember, the Wimas are pretty heavy on the bass while the Vitamin Qs have very good neutrality, but that's when the caps are used in a completely different context. If you're wondering about bypass capacitors in general, Google can get you some good reading material. Try these articles:

Bypassing
The Basics - Bypass Capacitors
http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/scba007a/scba007a.pdf

 And as per usual, sound is very unique to each system. The same component will sound different in a different part of the system, eg. source, amp, and in different parts within that piece of equipment, eg. power supply, signal path. If you're lucky, you may get similar results, but from what I know, the larger capacitor will dominate the sound characteristic over the bypass. Section 6.0.0 in the OP will give you a bit more reading material regarding choosing capacitors.

 Where will you be putting these capacitors? Size becomes an issue along with the capacitance.


----------



## nightanole

Im using a kensignton ipod dock that i got far a while ago so size isnt too big of a concern. I was thinking of just rerouting to 2 unused pins that way its 100% stock if used with any other device.


----------



## Copperjacket

EFN 

 Can I ask why you used different sizes of Elnas on the Line Out and Headphone Out ? Was it just availability? 


 Caps used:
 Elna Cerafine 47uf 6.3V (Line Out)
 Elna SILMIC II 47uF 16V (Headphone Out)


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Copperjacket* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EFN 

 Can I ask why you used different sizes of Elnas on the Line Out and Headphone Out ? Was it just availability? 


 Caps used:
 Elna Cerafine 47uf 6.3V (Line Out)
 Elna SILMIC II 47uF 16V (Headphone Out)_

 


 It's just me. I want to see how different those two are. As of now I can tell that the Cerafine seems to have louder output and the SILMIC II mellower


----------



## Copperjacket

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's just me. I want to see how different those two are. As of now I can tell that the Cerafine seems to have louder output and the SILMIC II mellower_

 

Thanks for that. As soon as I can find some in the UK, I will try your mod. This is proving difficult at present - any other make worth trying? Did you suggest Nichicons elsewhere?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Copperjacket* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that. As soon as I can find some in the UK, I will try your mod. This is proving difficult at present - any other make worth trying? Did you suggest Nichicons elsewhere?_

 

Yes the Nichicon MUSE Fine Gold series. They seems to be a bit more neutral sounding than the Elna SILMIC. So it's a mix and match with the rest of your rig to get the sound you want


----------



## Copperjacket

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes the Nichicon MUSE Fine Gold series. They seems to be a bit more neutral sounding than the Elna SILMIC. So it's a mix and match with the rest of your rig to get the sound you want_

 

Thanks again EFN. I think it all depends on what I can lay my hands on...


----------



## suicidal_orange

amplifier valve kits, HIFI pre-amplifiers, speaker kits, upgrade components has Elna Cerafine and Slimic II's and still has the originally recommended Black Gate NX-HQ's, no MUSE fine gold's though. p&p is £3.21 for small orders and they have always sent my orders quickly.

 Hope that helps


----------



## joneeboi

parts conneXion is having a 20% off sale on film capacitors, wires and cables until the end of March.

eConneXion March 2009 Newsletter

 No, they aren't paying me to advertise, I just thought some of you might care to know. I'm not affiliated with them in any way.


----------



## Copperjacket

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *suicidal_orange* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_amplifier valve kits, HIFI pre-amplifiers, speaker kits, upgrade components has Elna Cerafine and Slimic II's and still has the originally recommended Black Gate NX-HQ's, no MUSE fine gold's though. p&p is £3.21 for small orders and they have always sent my orders quickly.

 Hope that helps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for that. Unfortunately not in the sizes I want. He recons he will have then in a fortnight or so. Very helpful on the phone


----------



## qusp

anyone manage to get caps AND acharge/sync mini USB socket in the one LOD yet?? just spent the last couple of days trying to get it done. only way I can think to make it work is to have the 22uf BG hiQ not 47uf installed in a large mini like XLO or canare and then install the USB socket in the LOD connector. I tried twice unsuccessfully to fit both in the dock connector and all was well until I glued it shut. even though it was filled with epoxy and the wires were all insulated I figure the pins must've been pushed together (the only part not insulated but had plenty of epoxy on them) when I put it in the vice. I may never know what went wrong because I smashed the cable into little pieces.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 was all working great until I tested it after. I cant think of a way for me to find more room in the LOD except maybe using very thin wires for the audio connections. as it was I was using 22AWG jena and 20AWG cryo silver and 34AWG SPC for the USB was quite neatly done although it looks a little ghetto because of all the epoxy I had to use and I actually thought i'd done it the second time round (first time I used 18AWG jena instead of the 22AWG. and it too was very close. had to modify the inside to fit the caps in the corners near the cable exit so they didnt get pushed out towards the locking pins, rendering them useless. could maybe get it done with purely charge or sync, but not both; with both it means the whole front of the connector is off limits because you are using too many pins for there to be room to squueze even a 22uf in between like I do sometimes with a regular DIYMOD LOD. any idea I havent mentioned would be much appreciated


----------



## joneeboi

Pictures would be very helpful. =) There are plenty of things you can try.

 - Use a larger dock connector. I don't know which one you're using, but if you use the one I always use, the one that snaps shut or Ridax model A or E, you'll have loads of room.






 - If you used 28 AWG for all wires, I think you'd be okay. USB 2.0 specifies 28AWG for the data lines, and between 20AWG and 28AWG can be used for the power wires. If you use individual wires without the rubber sheathing, shielding and so on, I think you'll have more room to work with. To compromise for space sake, I think anything thicker than 24AWG for audio is pushing your luck.

 - Use the same ground wire for audio and USB. They're all connected together on the logic board anyway, so exclude one wire from the dock. You eventually need to shield the USB wires, but I think it'd be okay if you omitted most of it within the dock connector; just make sure it's still connected to ground before it leaves the dock.

 - Don't connect the USB shield. I know it goes against what I just said, but since it's already connected at the computer end, maybe it's not entirely necessary for you and it gives you extra room.

 - Push the 22uF caps into the corners of the dock connector.

 - Use 22uF instead of 47uF.

 - Leave the hot glue and epoxy out unless *absolutely* necessary.

 Those are some things you can try. I can't guarantee it'll work, but if it all works out inside my head, surely it's going to work out fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let us know how it goes.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pictures would be very helpful. =) There are plenty of things you can try.

 - Use a larger dock connector. I don't know which one you're using, but if you use the one I always use, the one that snaps shut or Ridax model A or E, you'll have loads of room._

 

LOL yeah; loads of room hehe. yeah thats the one i'm using excuse the grubby glue fingers. this was obviosly before clean up.. epoxy is sooo messy. wish hotglue held and seal as well










 actually just checked and its not 34AWg im using for the USB, I think its 30 and i've never had any problems using that before. never put on in a capped LOD before though; only in a VCAP or a regular LOD. not sure if youve done it before either judging by some of the language you used in your post. like 'hopefully'.

  Quote:


 - If you used 28 AWG for all wires, I think you'd be okay. USB 2.0 specifies 28AWG for the data lines, and between 20AWG and 28AWG can be used for the power wires. If you use individual wires without the rubber sheathing, shielding and so on, I think you'll have more room to work with. To compromise for space sake, _*I think anything thicker than 24AWG for audio is pushing your luck*_. 
 

so it would seem; I was soooo close and I think I can do it with the 22uf either by squeezing it in or by putting the caps in the mini; but yeah If I used 24AWG all would heva been well, was that close, but unfortunately jena doesnt come in 24AWG. wish it did. will have to make a mundorf version and with a 3 wire braid no USB ground sounds like a winner

  Quote:


 - Use the same ground wire for audio and USB. They're all connected together on the logic board anyway, so exclude one wire from the dock. You eventually need to shield the USB wires, but I think it'd be okay if you omitted most of it within the dock connector; just make sure it's still connected to ground before it leaves the dock.-

 Don't connect the USB shield. I know it goes against what I just said, but since it's already connected at the computer end, maybe it's not entirely necessary for you and it gives you extra room. 
 

yeah never needed to use the shield in an LOD before. so are you saying I can omit the USB ground alltogether as long as the LOD is grounded??



  Quote:


 - Push the 22uF caps into the corners of the dock connector. 
 

yeah thats what I did with the first LOD with the 22uf as they fit in the corners, the 47 dont really, but the first one I used 18AWG jena so it didnt fit, was sooo close though

  Quote:


 - Use 22uF instead of 47uF. 
 

will do

  Quote:


 - Leave the hot glue and epoxy out unless *absolutely* necessary. 
 

if it was for me I wouldnt bother with it, but as it isnt I feel better with it there.; but will keep to a minimum and apply just the once at the end when i'm sealing it up. this one I added it twice and I think that was the problem in the end. I added it once to seal off the pins on LOD and USB connector and then again when closing. so the wires couldnt really move and because I used epoxy instead of hot glue, I couldnt hit it with the hot air to soften it. I use epoxy as it seals the jena and stops the legendary discolouration 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cant have that

  Quote:


 Those are some things you can try. I can't guarantee it'll work, but if it all works out inside my head, surely it's going to work out fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let us know how it goes. 
 

ahha so you havent done it?? it worked out in my head too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'll let you know how it goes for sure. wont be doing it until the 2uf get here; I ran out on the first LOD and oly had 47uf for this one. used all my 22uf last week on other stuff. tried a couple in gamma1... did nt like it. I dont thing BG are that great for builds like that; really good for their size, but if I have room I always use something else. people seem to be going BG crazy over on the gamma1 thread though. dont know what the fuss is about personally


----------



## joneeboi

I didn't know you were using a mini-USB jack. That certainly changes things. I thought you were using a second cable coming out the back, so that changes a lot of what I said. And yes, I have never attempted such a dock. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It looks like you're quite close there. I think being wiser with the glue and epoxy will definitely help. Is it necessary to use both? I'm worried about height, whether or not the dock will snap shut for you. I think grounding will still be a funny issue though. If you could reduce the number of wires, that would certainly help. Maybe solder your audio ground wire to the body of the USB jack and then solder from the jack to any of the ground pins. Something I've never tried before but you can try is soldering to the metal clips that lock the dock into the iPod. The dock is grounded, so you'll still be connecting to ground if you solder your wires to the clips. That'll save the wires from entering the pin area, saving you a bit more room. You'd definitely have to be creative with it though, and who knows if that's a reliable place to solder ground to.

 Also, I wonder about the positioning of the capacitor on the USB side. Maybe you can orient it so the capacitor leads are facing perpendicular to the dock pins like the capacitor on the audio side.

 I'd say your biggest problem is the glue and epoxy overload. Use it sparingly, and you'll probably get a lot closer next time.


----------



## okydoke

Guys, this may seem like a silly question but I've been looking for a number of hours and was wondering how the uF rating of a capacitor changes the sound? Does it alter impedance? Also when doing the DIYMod, does it matter what voltage the capacitors are?

 Thanks guys, I'd really appreciate your help on this one - got my 80g 5.5g rocking up this week and would like to get it set up with my fiio e5 (temporary) as soon as possible!


----------



## joneeboi

The diyMod capacitor forms a low-pass filter with the input impedance of your amplifier, and the higher the capacitance, the more bass information you get (or the less bass you lose, whichever way you want to look at it). The equation that prescribes this behaviour is represented as,

 f = 1/(2*pi*R*C)

 where 
 f is the -3db frequency, or the corner frequency, which tells you the lowest audible frequency allowed by the filter,
 R is the input impedance of the amplifier, and
 C is the capacitance of the diymod capacitor.

 You can see that by raising C and keeping R constant, meaning that you use the same amplifier, the corner frequency, f, is lowered and the filter lets through more low frequency signals.

 As for voltage, for the most part, you don't have to worry about it. There is only about 2VDC coming from the Wolfson, so there isn't much you have to worry about in terms of voltage rating. Some capacitors are rated for 2VDC, but they're usually surface mount capacitors that you don't need to worry about. That's a slightly longer answer than you need, but it's what I'm giving you.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't know you were using a mini-USB jack. That certainly changes things. I thought you were using a second cable coming out the back, so that changes a lot of what I said. And yes, I have never attempted such a dock. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It looks like you're quite close there. I think being wiser with the glue and epoxy will definitely help. Is it necessary to use both? I'm worried about height, whether or not the dock will snap shut for you. I think grounding will still be a funny issue though. If you could reduce the number of wires, that would certainly help. Maybe solder your audio ground wire to the body of the USB jack and then solder from the jack to any of the ground pins. Something I've never tried before but you can try is soldering to the metal clips that lock the dock into the iPod. The dock is grounded, so you'll still be connecting to ground if you solder your wires to the clips. That'll save the wires from entering the pin area, saving you a bit more room. You'd definitely have to be creative with it though, and who knows if that's a reliable place to solder ground to.

 Also, I wonder about the positioning of the capacitor on the USB side. Maybe you can orient it so the capacitor leads are facing perpendicular to the dock pins like the capacitor on the audio side.

 I'd say your biggest problem is the glue and epoxy overload. Use it sparingly, and you'll probably get a lot closer next time._

 

22uf + less epoxy = win!!

 didnt actually think about the fact that I wouldnt actually need much in the way of epoxy for strain relief (juts a dab initially to seal th jena and pins in place and a tiny bit to keep th dock shut) the dock is jammed enough that the friction alone will stp anything from moving in there as long as its shut. BTW glue and epoxy in my wording before were interchangable. I didnt use hot glue as well, just epoxy. either way it works, will have to put together a tutorial next time


----------



## joneeboi

Where are the pictures?!


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are the pictures?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

tomorrow, its 3.30am here in OZ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 last time I woke everyone up turning lights on to try pics I got yelled at by my flatmate


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_tomorrow, its 3.30am here in OZ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 last time I woke everyone up turning lights on to try pics I got yelled at by my flatmate_

 

Wait, isn't it already tomorrow in Oz? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So where are those pics? Are you still asleep?!?! Wake up slacker! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 j/k I'm looking forward to seeing your result. I've wanted to build this same concept for awhile now. I want an LOD with bypass caps inside and a mini USB for charging. Being able to access it on the PC would be nice, but mostly I need charging for in the car.


----------



## okydoke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The diyMod capacitor forms a low-pass filter with the input impedance of your amplifier, and the higher the capacitance, the more bass information you get (or the less bass you lose, whichever way you want to look at it). The equation that prescribes this behaviour is represented as,

 f = 1/(2*pi*R*C)

 where 
 f is the -3db frequency, or the corner frequency, which tells you the lowest audible frequency allowed by the filter,
 R is the input impedance of the amplifier, and
 C is the capacitance of the diymod capacitor.

 You can see that by raising C and keeping R constant, meaning that you use the same amplifier, the corner frequency, f, is lowered and the filter lets through more low frequency signals.

 As for voltage, for the most part, you don't have to worry about it. There is only about 2VDC coming from the Wolfson, so there isn't much you have to worry about in terms of voltage rating. Some capacitors are rated for 2VDC, but they're usually surface mount capacitors that you don't need to worry about. That's a slightly longer answer than you need, but it's what I'm giving you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

no thats perfect - excellent food for thought. Thanks so much for your help!


----------



## direcow

Finally got my act together and tried to do the mod... would anybody be able to hazard a guess as to why the sound on the right is very very soft? There's sound, as long as I pump up the volume I can hear it... would it be my dock or the diymod, or how should I go about testing it?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got my act together and tried to do the mod... would anybody be able to hazard a guess as to why the sound on the right is very very soft? There's sound, as long as I pump up the volume I can hear it... would it be my dock or the diymod, or how should I go about testing it?_

 


 Probably a cold solder joint somehwere on the right side channel. I'd check the wire link on the iPod itself first. Using a magnifying glass and a multimeter with audible beep tester can help (the beep will be loud on a proper link and weak on a bad link)


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got my act together and tried to do the mod... would anybody be able to hazard a guess as to why the sound on the right is very very soft? There's sound, as long as I pump up the volume I can hear it... would it be my dock or the diymod, or how should I go about testing it?_

 

There are a lot of unknowns for us. First off, pictures are always helpful. Which model diyMod did you do? Where are you taking the audio signal from? How did you wire up your dock? Giving us pictures is probably the best way to get help here.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got my act together and tried to do the mod... would anybody be able to hazard a guess as to why the sound on the right is very very soft? There's sound, as long as I pump up the volume I can hear it... would it be my dock or the diymod, or how should I go about testing it?_

 

What volume are you having to "pump up"? The iPod volume? That shouldn't do anything after this mod (actually before this mod if you're using a dock).

 The advice above is sound. Look for a bad solder joint. Basically go over everything you just did. You don't have to redo it, but you could just reflow all the joints as aquick first attempt to solve the problem.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Probably a cold solder joint somehwere on the right side channel. I'd check the wire link on the iPod itself first. Using a magnifying glass and a multimeter with audible beep tester can help (the beep will be loud on a proper link and weak on a bad link)_

 

Cool, thanks for the info... that might be it, it was close to 3am when I thought I was done with it - I'll check it again tonight.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are a lot of unknowns for us. First off, pictures are always helpful. Which model diyMod did you do? Where are you taking the audio signal from? How did you wire up your dock? Giving us pictures is probably the best way to get help here._

 

I did a 5.5G iPod video, I removed the caps above the chip to get a bit more working space, but soldered the ends directly to the pads near the dock... I realised on the dock the ground pin is slightly recessed compared to the signal pins, would that affect things? If problems persist I'll try to get pictures.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What volume are you having to "pump up"? The iPod volume? That shouldn't do anything after this mod (actually before this mod if you're using a dock).

 The advice above is sound. Look for a bad solder joint. Basically go over everything you just did. You don't have to redo it, but you could just reflow all the joints as aquick first attempt to solve the problem._

 

Changed the volume on my external amp, volume on the ipod is set to zero all the time now.

 Thanks for the quick help guys... I'll see what works tonight.


----------



## direcow

Good news, it WAS a cold solder joint. Didn't think to use my mm to check but there it was. Resoldered and rerouted the wires so that I could close the ipod a little better... Thanks for all the help, esp EFN!

 Anybody willing to ship some spare 30G wires to Singapore?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good news, it WAS a cold solder joint. Didn't think to use my mm to check but there it was. Resoldered and rerouted the wires so that I could close the ipod a little better... Thanks for all the help, esp EFN!

 Anybody willing to ship some spare 30G wires to Singapore?_

 

sure; PM me with your address, will ship some to you on tuesday or wednesday if you want. how much do you need?? will a few feet do?? its just SPC, but should do nicely, I use pure silver 34AWG, but I dont have heaps of that, could maybe give you a bit though. could maybe spare about 20cm of the silver (some that I have used before; and I can give you a few feet of SPC


----------



## qusp

BTW guys, sorry i've been so slack with getting those pics up, i've been mega busy and when I went to get the pics yesterday when I had a spare minute the batteries were flat; will get them up later today


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good news, it WAS a cold solder joint. Didn't think to use my mm to check but there it was. Resoldered and rerouted the wires so that I could close the ipod a little better... Thanks for all the help, esp EFN!

 Anybody willing to ship some spare 30G wires to Singapore?_

 

Aaah the joy if DIY 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Glad you solved them. MultiMeter is your BEST friend LOL!.

 Now go enjoy some music!


----------



## sputnik13

The first page suggests 24 AWG kapton insulated wire for use in this mod. Does it make a difference which wire I use? What about 30 AWG wire or 24 AWG teflon, not kapton?


----------



## joneeboi

Wire is really up to personal preference. You can use anything you want. The original traces on the logic board are so very tiny that you're better off using almost anything to replace those traces.


----------



## joneeboi

Don't forget to share your iPod dock-making techniques at

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/ipo...allery-415418/


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sputnik13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The first page suggests 24 AWG kapton insulated wire for use in this mod. Does it make a difference which wire I use? What about 30 AWG wire or 24 AWG teflon, not kapton?_

 

30AWG is better... some 24AWG wires are too thick and will prevent your ipod from closing.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sputnik13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The first page suggests 24 AWG kapton insulated wire for use in this mod. Does it make a difference which wire I use? What about 30 AWG wire or 24 AWG teflon, not kapton?_

 

The reason people will recommend kapton wire is that it's thinner. Teflon shielding is, in general, thicker. It has nothing to do with the thermal characteristics. It's a purely mechanical decision. You want about the thinnest wire you can work with.


----------



## Nausicaa

Okay, working on iPod mini.
 To my understanding the 3rd and 4th from the left on the rows are the ones you have to remove right?




 joneeboi- When I click on the links to the posts in the thread I go to the wrong pages. I have no idea why.


----------



## joneeboi

It depends on where you're soldering to. It's recommended that you leave the inductors in there; I'm not entirely sure what the capacitors are doing there, so I'd prefer actually to remove them. Remove those capacitors and leave in the inductors. Also, those gallery links on the first page are incorrect, so that's why it's a good thing I left in the post number. I may fix them soon, but I'm actually working on the website for the diyMods. I'm undecided whether or not I'll leave the OP intact, so I don't feel like fixing every link right now. I'll have a gallery area with plenty of web space set up for the new diyMod website, so we'll still have to see how that will be organized. For now, all I can do for you is suggest you find the post by guessing which page their on, or do a search for their username and iPod model.


----------



## dazzer1975

Ok, first up I apologise in advance for asking this question, I have read several questions and answers, even some extremely informative answers from people featuring formulas to work out which capicator to use but anything above and beyond simple maths is beyond me.

 I have seen several pictures on these forums of people's diy and indeed purchased imod docks and lods all using different caps and different values.

 I understand electrolytic black gates are about the best of its type for its size and thus use in a lod, and for that I am getting some black gate NX HiQ 47μF 6.3V.

 However, I am also interested in performing an iriver diymod and am also interested in making a larger dock for an apple 5gen ipod video diymod something along the lines of a vcap dock but not using vcaps.

 I have searched and read through post after post, and the bottom line appears to be any rated cap pretty much. Then I read comments how the 47uf features better bass response than the 22uf black gate and am back to square one in deciding what kind of caps I need to be buying for my different applications.

 If anyone could help I would be greatly appreciative, apparently amp input impedence etc has to be taken account of too. How the hell do I find out what my amps input impedences are etc. It's entering into proper technical areas now and I need some assistance with it. Ive seen caps at 0.47uf and 0.22 presumably these are not what I want, yet the bigger physical sized caps seem to come in smaller values such as a vcap rated at say 4.7uf

 whats the minimum value cap I could get and use safely~?


----------



## joneeboi

As you mentioned, almost any cap will work, but different kinds of ratings for those capacitors will affect the sound differently. The diyMod output coupling capacitor and the input impedance, sometimes input resistance, of your amplifier form a high pass filter, which means that high frequency signals, eg. cymbals crashing, pass through without being disturbed, but lower frequency signals are muted, where the cutoff begins and the how much it attenuates the signal depends on the characteristics of the filter. If you have a deep desire to learn more about filters, Google it or check out pages like All About Circuits : Free Electric Circuits Textbooks. I'll try to keep it to the basics.

 The -3dB frequency can be found using the equation that you've likely seen before, f=1/(2*pi*R*C). This frequency is the lowest audible frequency allowed by the filter, so it would behoove you to make it lower than 20Hz, the lowest audible frequency for most humans. R and C are the variables in the equation, where, for our purposes, R is the input impedance of your amplifier and C is the capacitance of the diyMod's output capacitor. Basically, the higher R and C are, the more bass information you will get. This fact explains why with the 47uF Black Gate capacitor, assuming you're using the same amplifier, you will get more bass than with the 22uF capacitor.

 To find your amp's input impedance, there are several ways of going about it. First, you can measure it with meters and resistors, but what you can also do is search for it on the internet. What kind of amp are you using? If it's a commercial product, that information is usually listed online. What amp are you using?

 What you also have to consider is the quality of the capacitor. You're usually looking for ESR, or equivalent resistance, and you want this number to be low. This is because capacitors pass AC current, and the low the resistance, the easier the signal passes through. This also entails considering the type of dielectric used in the capacitor, be it film, polypropylene, ceramic, tantalum. Typically the film types are better for sound, but they don't have a lot of capacitance for their size compared to electrolytics. Electrolytics are supposed to be much slower in sound than the films, but they have lots of capacitance and lower your filter's -3db frequency.

 What you need to decide on is a capacitor line and a capacitance value, not necessarily in that order. Some choose the Black Gates and pick the capacitance and some pick the amount of capacitance and see which brand and series has the best sound. The voltage rating doesn't matter so much.

 Best of luck.


----------



## dazzer1975

Thanks for taking the time out to go through this with me, I appreciate the basic steps and explanation you have given me and it is starting to make more sense now as to how (and indeed why) I would choose certain cap values over another. 

 That is indeed the same formula I have spotted before, I even downloaded the diymod corner frequency calculator, but before you just explained the idea of the filter and the amp input impedance and diymod capacitance, I was totally lost in a sea of technical terms with no way "in" to learning or trying to understand them in relation to each other and the wider context of applying that knowledge.

 The amps I will be using are either a little dot II or for portables which will be iqube or ibasso d10.

 I do have a multimeter so presumably that would be one way to measure the amps input impedance but again, I wouldn't know where to start by actually doing this. Beats the crap outta me how you guys follow traces and establish the points on the logic board which are suitable for diymodding.


----------



## joneeboi

To find the input impedance, hook up a signal generator and potentiometer in series with the amplifier input. Short circuit the potentiometer, measure the voltage of the input signal, then turn up the resistance of the potentiometer until the voltage after the pot is half the voltage of the input signal. If you don't have a signal generator, you can just get a relatively large capacitor and assume the input impedance is 10k. That way you can safely assume the filter corner frequency won't be a problem, even if the input impedance ends up being 10k. 47uF will be more than sufficient for almost all intents and purposes.

 The iQube input impedance is 10k. I can't access the Little Dot website at work (shows up as a malicious website), and the iBasso D10 doesn't have any info on its website.


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## dazzer1975

You sir are an absolute diamond of a fella.

 I will be sure to post pics once I have done the mod and made the lod etc, just waiting for parts to come in now.

 Thank you so much for all your help, and indeed the vast and rich resource that is this thread too.

 Invaluable.


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## EFN

maaaannnnyyy DIYpodssssss......


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## joneeboi

That's quite an impressive stack you've got, EFN. I have a similar one in my workshop, but they're all broken.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's quite an impressive stack you've got, EFN. I have a similar one in my workshop, but they're all broken. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks. I am surprised you have not built a FrankenPod from the bits and pieces yet


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## dazzer1975

5g diymod.

 Has anyone gone directly from the wolfson wm8978 (8758 equivalent apparently) pin 23 rout2 and pin 25 lout2 to pins 3 and 4 on the dock connector?

 Is there any problems/issues with this other than the usual difficulty of soldering?

 I am presuming using lout2 and rout2 is to save the headphone out found in lout1 and rout1 thus maintaining headphone out capability as well as diymod line out capability?


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## joneeboi

EFN:

 Most of those logic boards either don't have line out pads anymore or don't turn on anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The closest thing I have to a frankenPod is a 4G click wheel half-converted to a 4G photo. I never completed it because there were so many little things I had to buy that I didn't feel like continuing. You can call it lazy, but I just didn't have the money at the time. And now, well, I just don't have the desire. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 dazzer:

 You are correct, sir. That's pretty much the de facto way of doing the diyMod 5G. I believe that's what the iMod does as well, but I'never having seen the inside of an iMod, I'm only speculating. One warning I'll give you is to leave in those little capacitors and the dock inductors and solder to those things instead of to just those pads. As I mentioned to EFN, I have many a logic board unable to produce sound anymore because I lifted the audio pads. Leave the L's and C's in and you'll protect your diyMod without even the need for glue or epoxy. There's no need to go through the process of procuring a new logic board. It causes too much pain to the heart. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The "either / or" situation between the headphone jack and dock is merely illusory in that the iMod 4G was set up this way. That's one way of doing it, but you can choose whatever way you want with the diyMod. You know, I'm going to insert that into my signature since I'm repeating it so much. I hope people get the point. Nothing against you, dazzer, but I just get that question a lot. =T


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 dazzer:

 You are correct, sir. That's pretty much the de facto way of doing the diyMod 5G. I believe that's what the iMod does as well, but I'never having seen the inside of an iMod, I'm only speculating. One warning I'll give you is to leave in those little capacitors and the dock inductors and solder to those things instead of to just those pads._

 

I was thinking of avoiding soldering to those at all, and to simply solder directly from pins 23 and 25 on the dac chip and route the wires direct to the female dock onto pins 3 and 4.

 Alternatively, I could solder to the caps and inductors (the two with z just above the dac and L2 AND L3) 

 I was thinking this could be an either/or scenario. Of course though, if after re-assessing my initial plan of soldering straight from the dac pins to the dock pins, I shall try the other method re from the two z points to the L2 and L3 points without trying to remove them as the fear of lifting the pads is whats driving my desire to solder directly from dac to dock.


  Quote:


 The "either / or" situation between the headphone jack and dock is merely illusory in that the iMod 4G was set up this way. That's one way of doing it, but you can choose whatever way you want with the diyMod. You know, I'm going to insert that into my signature since I'm repeating it so much. I hope people get the point. Nothing against you, dazzer, but I just get that question a lot. =T 
 

Ah ok, and absolutely no problem or offence, I am more than aware that I am liable to ask many pointless and frivolous questions, partly from the fact that I some times dont trust my own judgement, and partly because it is always infiinitely better to bounce ideas and garner advice and suggestions from others just to make absolutely sure.


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## joneeboi

Ya, no worries, man. Sorry, that's what I meant, solder straight from the Z caps to L2 and L3. I've soldered straight to the DAC pins before. It's not the best, it's not the worst thing. Depending on your experience, it can be pretty hard. I had some 7 strand teflon SPC, and I got rid of the other 5 strands and soldered the other two strands to the pins. It's not fun, so use this method only if need be.

 Have you checked out the first post? A lot of this information is there (and more, actually).


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## dazzer1975

Good info regarding how you soldered direct from the dac, I have some 30awg wire in from navships I will be using, and agree, it looks incredibly awkward and difficult even soldering to the z caps and L2 and L3... I can but try though.

 Yes, I've been on page 1 and your initial post but I do prefer to always bounce things off other people just to make sure I understand in my own mind I have it figured out ok. I am about ready to proceed when I get organised... fingers crossed lol and many thanks for your help and patience.


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## superpiper

I've read as much of this thread as I can (including search) it's a big thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't help but notice the original diymod, and a lot of the sq comparisons are wrt the 4g. iPod photo. Whilst my normal iPod is a 5.5g video, I was given a 4g from a friend and wrt the 5.5g, the sound of the 4g is really awful. Wether I use the hp or the lod, the 4g is rank imho. So I am not suprised to hear some bods raving about the diymod in these instances.
 I use a lod on my 5.5g cw mini3 amp and the sound is fantastic, but this thread has me twitching and wondering.......
 suspect the diference between a stock 5.5g and a diymod (both on the lod) may be subtle and best exploited by esoteric equipment

 Comments on a direct comparison of the two would be good ..
 *wonders of to the imod threads....)


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## joneeboi

I haven't encountered that much of a difference between the two. I think the 4G is a bit more bass-heavy with the 5.5G being more detailed, but it's been so long since I've compared the two that it's hard to say anymore. I don't ever remember it being that bad though. How long have you been listening to your 5.5G?


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## qusp

I dont find the 4G ipod photo DIYMOD (just finished one tonight BTW do you want pics Jon??) and actually decided to follow your advice tonight jon and not desolder anything. I have become pretty proficient with getting a really solid connection and reliably removing the caps without damage anyway, but since 4G parts are harder to get a hold of I decided to give it a go a play it safe. and I noticed you didnt have a very clear instruction on the photo version, so some pics might help others in future. this is the first time i've done this version. sent to the dock too. plenty of room in there after being used to doing ipod videos. couldve used some thicker wire, but ended up using my favorite; the 30AWG cardas silver in teflon. was tempted to use the 28AWG cardas silver in cotton, but decided against it for ease of routing.

 so I dont actually hear that much difference between the 2 dacs. I didnt have a listen to it before I modded it and the last time I heard a stock 4G was so long ago I cant remember. but I crtainly dont remember being repulsed by it. perhaps your unit is faulty afterall. the difference between stock and modded ipod with the right caps, is not what I would call subtle, but yes, why bother doing this and then using sub-par cabling and amplification. just my 2c


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## dazzer1975

i think, although of course could be wrong, that he was comparing the stock 4 and 5g ipods. And then he states that the reason people rave about the 4g diymod is that the 4g ipod sounds so bad. 

 As in his opinion he thinks the 5g is better than the 4th gen, he is assuming that there wont be such a dramatic difference between stock 5g and diymod 5g as there possibly is with the 4th gen.

 It is this last point regarding what the difference actually is between his stock 5th gen and the diymod 5th gen that is making him ponder wether to perform the mod or not as in comparison with the stock 4th gen the 5th gen is already far ahead.

 At least, thats how I read it.


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## qusp

yeah I kinda got that impression too, but wasnt quite sure. IMO there is just as much improvement with the 5G, we are afterall removing pretty much identical components in the 2 mods.


----------



## superpiper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i think, although of course could be wrong, that he was comparing the stock 4 and 5g ipods. And then he states that the reason people rave about the 4g diymod is that the 4g ipod sounds so bad. 

 As in his opinion he thinks the 5g is better than the 4th gen, he is assuming that there wont be such a dramatic difference between stock 5g and diymod 5g as there possibly is with the 4th gen.

 It is this last point regarding what the difference actually is between his stock 5th gen and the diymod 5th gen that is making him ponder wether to perform the mod or not as in comparison with the stock 4th gen the 5th gen is already far ahead.

 At least, thats how I read it._

 

Spot on.
 The 4g ipod is notorious for sounding *****, especially the bass fall of due to the naff caps. Iv'e hooked up mine to an amp on the LOD and was less than impressed.


 I like the 5.5g straight out of the dock, and its my main rig. But i wonder what improvement bypassing the stock caps etc would do, is the difference between 5.5gDIYMOD and a stock 5.5g IPOD that big when using a LOD.

 IF it is, i'm in trouble 'cause ill dig out the soldering iron. If not, i'll leave it alone.

 (not so sure why my OP was unclear? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


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## dazzer1975

There is a difference between stock and imod at elast (I have yet to hear a diymod but for all intents and purposes they should sound identical?) Obviously the modded ipod has a cleaner signal and that helps with detail but I do have to say that using a big cap dock such as vcaps will really draw an extremely noticeable distinction between the stock ipod and the diymod, it just takes things to a whole new level introducing more weight and body to the sound signature with a more accurate and defined bass response and wider and deeper soundstage.

 Bare in mind these are my recollections involving an rwa imod and alo vcap dock and alo black gates lod, and I have been without that rig for a month or two now as I sold it on, but will be attempting a diymod very soon as the stock ipods just dont cut it once you've been used to an imod and vcaps.

 I'm sure others will chime in here, but for the cost of a couple of caps and a bit of hook up wire I think its a no brainer to give it a bash.


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## joneeboi

There aren't many pictures of the iPod 4G photo because hardly anyone has posted any. vvs_75 did one and so did one other person if I remember correctly (the name escapes me), so there hasn't been very much venture into that territory as far as I can remember. Your pictures would be very much appreciated as that is still one of the more confusing mods. I believe you have to solder to the north ends of those resistors captured in the guide photo, but you'd know better than I would.

 And as for hearing a difference between stock 5.5G and diyMod 5.5G, it all really depends on everything: headphones, amp, caps, source audio files, cables, roughly in that order. Those and your ablility to pick up the differences. In your case, I think it would really depends on which caps you decided to go with and whether you'd consider the diyMod sound to be an improvement at all.

 And keep in mind that you're not just considering the cost of the caps and LOD and what not, there's also the risk of ruining your logic board which could run you at least a good 40 USD.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There aren't many pictures of the iPod 4G photo because hardly anyone has posted any. vvs_75 did one and so did one other person if I remember correctly (the name escapes me), so there hasn't been very much venture into that territory as far as I can remember. Your pictures would be very much appreciated as that is still one of the more confusing mods. I believe you have to solder to the north ends of those resistors captured in the guide photo, but you'd know better than I would.

 And as for hearing a difference between stock 5.5G and diyMod 5.5G, it all really depends on everything: headphones, amp, caps, source audio files, cables, roughly in that order. Those and your ablility to pick up the differences. In your case, I think it would really depends on which caps you decided to go with and whether you'd consider the diyMod sound to be an improvement at all.

 And keep in mind that you're not just considering the cost of the caps and LOD and what not, there's also the risk of ruining your logic board which could run you at least a good 40 USD._

 

Jon i'm thinking of putting a couple of ground wires in this thing too. i'm getting what is referred to as blitter noise with this mod; I get it to a much smaller degree with my 5.5G, but its really almost silent. in both cases though, as soon as a signal is piped through the signal wires the noise disappears; i've lisrtened carefully with the amp turned up reasonably loud and in silent passages of music and it seems to be absent, but with the amp turned on and no music playing, when I use the clickwheel I dont get clicking like you would if you were hooked into that signal somehow, but I get electrical interference as with the photo mod the wires pass under the screen and closer to the HD. also i'm pretty sure we need to solder to the north side of the caps, but the south side of the resistors. the first port of call for the traces for the dock pins seem to end directly underneath the south side of L2 and L3. I have tried the south side and it sounds nicer, but the blitter noise is slightly worse (I think). I havent tested the resistence between dock pins 3,4 and the north/south sides of L2 and L3 yet, but I will in the morning. planning on inserting the guts of a dock that hasnt been soldered and pull all the pins except for 3/4 and a ground. so will then plug the LOD connector in and just use my DMM to measure across pin 3 to L3 and 2 to L2 and find which of north/south has the least resistance. (easier than using the pins in the ipod I think and I havent got a breakout board (although this is a really good excuse for me to buy one.

 anyway I thought i'd try to lessen the blitter noise; I thought I might give twisted pairs a go inside; just need to find a convenient place to gound them (one end only) any ideas there Jon?? I could just choose one of the spare ground pins in the dock as they would be nice and close. just make sure its not one of the grounds that i'm using in the LOD. not that its too drastic as thety are all connected, but probably best to make it a bit less direct (resistence is useless hehe)
 sound like a plan? or have you found it to be superfluous as it seems to disappear when music gets going? i've noticed this with many amps anyway when they are on but with no signal passing through them.

 ,edit:: above I was actually meaning the north side of the resistors and the south side of the inductors. so used to doing ipod videos that I slipped and said caps as its the caps next to the dac you remove/bypass with the 5G, not resistors. just to confirm; its the north side of the resistors and the south side of L2 and L3.


----------



## superpiper

thats intresting,

 could it be the fact your bypassing the inductors on the dock?
 Inductors reduce interference don't they?

 I'm holding back till you find out more.

 What is Blitter noise?


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## qusp

google it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 its the term for interfrence caused by internal electrics. sometimes you will get it when a soundcard is installed too close to a graphics card. if you are doing the mod on the ipod video, no need to hold back; in fact dont wait on my account; this is me being obsessive. the sound disappears once you start playing music. it could probably be minimised by more thoughtful routing of the wires, but I would like to find a better solution as the ipod Photo is setup so that is very difficult to avoid the screen as it goes over the top of the area we are modding


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## joneeboi

I wonder if the noise is also partially coming from the DAC. I've heard a lot of noise when charging the iPod and listening at the same time. Typical procedures for reducing interference is shielding the cable, but I don't know if you have that kind of room. Maybe you could try soldering from the resistors to the headphone jack and see if reducing the length of the wire and moving it away from the other electronics would remove the noise. Now that I think about it, whenever my screen turned on, I did hear a distinct hissing when the music wasn't playing on my diyMod 4G. Hm.

 Perhaps you could send the wires along the side of the diyMod. There should be enough room to do that. Or you could drill holes in the back casing, send the wires out, drill another (set of) hole(s) near the dock, and wire it to the dock. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Try sending it down the side, and let us know how it goes.


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## funch

joneeboi;5610054 said:
			
		

> There aren't many pictures of the iPod 4G photo because hardly anyone has posted any. vvs_75 did one and so did one other person if I remember correctly (the name escapes me), so there hasn't been very much venture into that territory as far as I can remember.
> 
> 
> That would probably be me.
> ...


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if the noise is also partially coming from the DAC. I've heard a lot of noise when charging the iPod and listening at the same time._

 

I did think about that actually, but didnt listen before and after, so dnot know how much is caused by the wires, but I have a feeling a bit of it at least is as the dac itself is very near the screen, hard to avoid that. i'm using 30AWG cardas silver, so will be enough room for a twisted pair no problem. I will maybe give that a go tomorrow. I have experienced this kind of noise before with HD noises in ipods, but never the screen I recognise it as the screen or graphics chipset interfering. hmmmm I might look up the spec sheet to find the GPU and see if ive gone anywhere near it. because its exactly like blitter noise.. exactly.
  Quote:


 Typical procedures for reducing interference is shielding the cable, but I don't know if you have that kind of room. 
 

well I have some thin shielded cable that might fit phisically, but may not meet the bugetary requirements for this job... think piccolino... nah.. might try twisted pair first. 
  Quote:


 Maybe you could try soldering from the resistors to the headphone jack and see if reducing the length of the wire and moving it away from the other electronics would remove the noise. 
 

yeah I thought about that too, would have to desolder the wires that are there as they would just act as a big antenna otherwise. all the same I might give it a go. even though ive already made an LOD for this job. maybe thats why the original RWA IMODused the HP jack hmmm. 

  Quote:


 Now that I think about it, whenever my screen turned on, I did hear a distinct hissing when the music wasn't playing on my diyMod 4G. Hm. 
 

yeah it does seem to be centered around the screen and GPU with the clickwheel tied in as well.

  Quote:


 Perhaps you could send the wires along the side of the diyMod. There should be enough room to do that. 
 

 yeah there is, but it would still have to be soldered to near the dac, which is right underthe screen.
  Quote:


 Or you could drill holes in the back casing, send the wires out, drill another (set of) hole(s) near the dock, and wire it to the dock. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

LOL wow; flashback . now that'd be a blast from the past hey JON hehe. a 4G DIYMOD with absess

  Quote:


 Try sending it down the side, and let us know how it goes. 
 

will do, pity I already put epoxy strain relief on. hehe only a little bit and not over the pads, so its still doable. i'll make sure to posrt some pics even if it gets freaky in there. hehe

 OH and BTW I had my orientation mixed up before; its definitely the north side of the resistors you solder to. too much coffee; not enough sleep. gonna go to sleep now and attack in the...afternoon... 6.10AM here now


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## superpiper

Anybody got some spare (suitable) Caps and wire they wanna flog,
 suitable for a 5.5g and mini^3????

 i'll pay well including postage.

 PM if so......


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## pcyl

Well done guys


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## qusp

ran into a problem today that means I may have to stop for a little. I was installing rockbox and before I did the latest stable build I thought I would upgrade the apple firmware. so that worked ok, but after it finished it asked to be plugged into the wall charger to finish the install...... I dont have the wall charger.... and I tried it with various other wall chargers with USB outputs with the apple cable plugged into it; just like the apple charger works; thinking that it would just need 5v supplied to the correct pins and it'd be cool. no dice. the apple charger must have something else in it. strange. you wouldnt think so. so annoying; I think i've still got the one from my iphone somewhere, but of course I never really use it as you can just use USB on both my ipods and iphone to charge them. so this sux as I was sooo close. I know the mod works but I cant finish my tinkering to try and get rid of the EMI without being able to test the unit audibly.


----------



## joneeboi

Try plugging it into a higher voltage. I'm not sure that'll work, but give it a shot. My Firewire charger is rated for 12VDC, but I'm sure it goes a little higher than that. Give that a try if you can't find the older charger. The same works with the car's power outlet as well.


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## qusp

yeah pretty sure its the higher voltage, but i'd have to rig up a car battery to a DIY charger hehe. gonna check the apple stores topday. after some reeseach last night it does seem it needs the firewire charger to finish this process. so must need 12v to flash the firmware, which is the last thing it does apparently. I just hope it doesnt brickl it if I cant get to one before the battery goes flat. there are siome opn ebay cheap that look like original apple ones, so might end up buying one of them to be safe. are you saying that car chargers are 12v?? that I could probably organize


----------



## joneeboi

I don't know if it's different in Oz, but car batteries here are 12V. I finished the firmware upgrade for an iPod 4G with my car charger once.


----------



## qusp

cool, yeah the batteries arew 12v, was just confirming that the charger didnt step it down?? but sounds like not. cool i'll have to grab one somewhere, was it just a regular ipod car charger, or specifically a 4g??


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## joneeboi

It was a regular iPod charger. I don't think there were ever model-specific chargers. What you could even do is just splice an existing 12V charger you have and just wire that to an iPod dock.


----------



## qusp

well the apple store in the city is gonna help me out; so i'm gonna bring it in there tomorrow or wednesday and then I can finish this and get pics up. had time to think about solutions, so should be some nice pics.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well I have some thin shielded cable that might fit phisically, but may not meet the bugetary requirements for this job... think piccolino... nah.. might try twisted pair first._

 

What about twisting the pair and sandwiching it between some DIY shielding? I'm thinking a layer of electrical tape, then foil, then wires, more foil, then some more electrical tape. As long as you kept the foil narrower then the tape, the tape would seal it all up. I have a picture in my head, but I'm not sure I'm conveying it well with words. The 4Gs have more room, right? I realize this probably won't work in a 5th gen though. It would probably work in my Mini, but I never noticed the interference. I'll be honest though, I haven't listened to it via the modded dock in awhile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It mostly serves IEM duty these days.

 Good luck Qusp. I expect nothing less then an ingenious solution


----------



## joneeboi

Voila the iPod nano 2G diyMod pictorial. I haven't tried it yet, but you could probably send some thin wires from the capacitors around to the cutout for the headphone jack. It would be tricky as that area is already hugely congested.

 I bought an iPod nano 2G 2GB some time ago off eBay for 50 USD. It was quite a steal at the time, and there's nothing wrong with it except a few dings on the corner. It's a really slick model of iPod, but I think I still prefer the way the nano 1G feels in my hand; this one feels slippery. I finally got around to opening it today, and I just double checked with my DMM. There are resistors before the capacitors, so decide for yourself if you're capable of soldering to such itty-bitty pads.











 I hope that the images are clear in the message they convey. Don't read too much into the pictures. Combine them with the knowledge that the diyMod is a coupling capacitor replacement project. The first picture is probably more unclear with the right channel indicator. I may have to redo that one if it becomes a problem, but I am sleepy now. I hope the nano 2G crowd feel more included with this update; no, I haven't updated OP yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now go!


----------



## joneeboi

The OP is updated. Spread the word that the nano 2G has been diyModded.

 I also should mention that I'm currently reorganizing all the information from the OP on a new website. The only real time I get to do any work on it is Saturday morning, and those reserved for the website are few and far between. I will be going on a cruise come May 2, so that will allow me to finally get down to work after some relaxation time. (I think everyone gets antsy and bored when they eat and sleep for a few days in a row, so that's my excuse for being a workaholic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) There's already some information up, so even though I'm sure one could easily find it, I won't say where it is.


----------



## dazzer1975

Joneeboi, just to say a thanks for this organised resource.

 After first looking at soldering directly from the dac pins to the dock pins I decided its way too small to attempt without bridging the pins (attempted with no decent lighting or magnification). So last night I removed the capicators to the north of the dac and the caps and inductors on the dock and am currently working on routing my wires and sorting the lengths out, providing strain relief etc. So I am very pleased to say that so far and touch wood I am well on my way to my first diymodded ipod 5g video which would have been impossible without this thread.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about twisting the pair and sandwiching it between some DIY shielding? I'm thinking a layer of electrical tape, then foil, then wires, more foil, then some more electrical tape. As long as you kept the foil narrower then the tape, the tape would seal it all up. I have a picture in my head, but I'm not sure I'm conveying it well with words._

 

you know, that might just work, but I dont know how much more effective it would be than haveing a twisted pair for each channel and how/ where would I ground such a shield?? I dont know how well it would solder. interesting though and I might just give it a try, I thought about coating a teflon tube (with twistd pair inside) with a thin coat of conductive glue and gluing that to ground at one end; then wrapping in insulating tape like you said, but will probably see how a twisted pair for each channel goes, with the tap grounded at one or both ends, maybe even just one end with a capacitor to filter noise from perhaps contaminating the ground plane; connecting at both ends could creat a ground loop. 

  Quote:


 The 4Gs have more room, right? I realize this probably won't work in a 5th gen though. 
 

 the $g do indeed have more room to play with, still not loads, but considerably more than a 5g.

  Quote:


 It would probably work in my Mini, but I never noticed the interference. 
 

 yeah I think its really only because with the 4G, the screen and HD are in very close proximity to the areas we are connecting as the screen is actually placed over the top of the logic board, rather than in a seperate panel. this is why it seems to be tied very closely to the graphics on screen and HD motor.

  Quote:


 I'll be honest though, I haven't listened to it via the modded dock in awhile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It mostly serves IEM duty these days. 
 

 hehe; well actually neither have I so much as my iriver has been getting a fair amount of the airplay...shhhh shouldnt say that while shes listeing hehe. 

  Quote:


 Good luck Qusp. I expect nothing less then an ingenious solution 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

gee thanks; no preasure or anything LOL. hope I dont disappoint 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 i'm happy to report though that plugging it into the firewire charger did in fact solve the issue and I did not end up with a brick as feared as I couldnt get to the apple store until today; was paranoid that the battery would run out and brick the ipod as the process wasnt complete, but was too far gone to go back. I wonder if that wouldve happened if the battery ran totally flat?? it was asleep for the last couple of days, so I dont think I was ever in danger, but ones mind does wander sometimes... well mine does anyway LOL.

 so i'll be doing some more over the weekend and will hopefully post results and pics of the successful solution on monday-tuesday.


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## joneeboi

Pressure's on, qusp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just remember to not rip those pads off the board, and you should be mostly okay.

 And you're welcome, dazzer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can only hope the website is better. It will surely be more organized by a longshot.


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## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pressure's on, qusp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just remember to not rip those pads off the board, and you should be mostly okay._

 

waaahh!! I thought that was the first step 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought the thing was that you had to rip them completely off as its a much more direct and clean path if you just solder directly to the dac and pins hehe....OK too far.

  Quote:


 And you're welcome, dazzer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can only hope the website is better. It will surely be more organized by a longshot. 
 

be sure to remember to ask if I can help in any way. I diont have heaps of spare time, but will do what I can. my background is in digital imaging and graphic design, so can maybe help out with a masthead or something resembling a logo


----------



## joneeboi

Here are pictures of my diyMod nano 2G.






 Notice how I solder the white wire to the pad on the left and the red one to the pad on the right. This precaution will prevent the channels from touching.


----------



## EFN

Good one Joneeboi...you continue to break grounds on DIY Modding it seems. I am coming up with an iPod Touch 1G DIYmod very-very soon


----------



## joneeboi

Thanks, EFN. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm interested to see how you do the diyMod touch 1G. I couldn't find a way to those darn audio pins.


----------



## dumbears

Finally, I've CF-modded my iPod Video 80G. It's now downgraded to 32G, but without a harddisk.

 Next, I'm going to mod it on both phone-out and line-out. However, before doing that, I'd like to seek help for you guys. Pls lend me your hands; I need more than 2, of course.

 Let talk about the phone-out mod first. Can anyone confirm if the caps in the square are the caps to be replaced? I don't have a DMM that measure farad. Are those 100uF? My gut feel is telling me there should be enough room for an extra pair of 6mm dia caps (apart from the a pair of caps for line-out) without the presence of the hard disk.

 Here is the list of caps with 6mm diameter (all dim in mm):
 - Elna Starget 220uF/10V 6dx12l
 - Panasonic FC 220uF/10V 6dx14l
 - Panasonic ECA0JAM221X 220uF/6.3V 5dx11l
 - Rubycon ZA 220uF/6.3V 6.3dx11l







 Now, here is the line-out. I'm going to follow *gueri_fr*'s footsteps - having the caps inside the iPod. I'm going to use a 24AWG wire. Is it good to hold or is it too thick?

 I believe I'm fine to remove the *Z*-marked caps, but I've doubts in removing the in the capacitors underneath L2 and L3, C84 and C85. Can I just leave them alone?

 Thanks in advance for all the advices and suggestions.


----------



## no_eye_dear

I would go for metalised film/foil if you can get them in.
WIMA MKS 2 are thin enough to fit @ 5.5mm......
 Go for 4.7uf 16V and use a 100K resistor to ground to ensure a low corner frequency 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Just my 2p's worth


----------



## joneeboi

dumbears:

 If you want to switch the coupling capacitors for the headphones, the caps have to be rated for a much higher capacitance than at the line out. Even with the 100k resistor to ground, when you connect your headphones, you are paralleling a low impedance (headphones) with a high impedance (100k resistor), and the effective impedance will be lower than that of your headphones. Someone did a diyMod mini a while back with 220uF SMT capacitors. I'd do the something similar to get a better corner frequency.

 C > 1/(2*pi*R*f)
 C > 1/(2*pi*32 Ohms*20 Hz)
 C > 249uF

 You'll need quite a bit of capacitance here. There might also be value in paralleling caps in this position as well, but that's up to the reader/listener to decide.


----------



## no_eye_dear

Absolutely!
 Only use the caps I suggested for the line-out mod.(if they fit)
 Not the phone out.

 TTFN


----------



## dumbears

I was that guy who replaced the original PO caps with the 220uF SMT capacitors. To be honest, I can't find any differences since then. 

 So, I'm thinking of replacing the tan caps with aluminum-electrolyte caps this time provided the space I can have after removing the hard disk.

 First time first, I still uncertain if those caps in the red box are the ones to be replaced.


----------



## dumbears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *no_eye_dear* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would go for metalised film/foil if you can get them in.
WIMA MKS 2 are thin enough to fit @ 5.5mm......
 Go for 4.7uf 16V and use a 100K resistor to ground to ensure a low corner frequency 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Just my 2p's worth
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've already got myself some BG NX Hi-Q 22uF. MKS2 is more expensive though.  However, I think I should try your suggestion out one day. Thanks!


----------



## EFN

The iPod Touch 1G mod was a success. Thanks to a local Head-Fier (xandman) who have the courage to put his beloved Touch 1G to the knife. But not without drama and lotsa sweat.

 Firstly, the Touch 1G shell is friggin hard to pry open. I wasted two guitar picks and a pair of iPod opening tools. I ended up using a dull edged knife to do the finishing touch. So there's some nasty marks on one edge of the shell.

 Once opened. there's another problem. The DAC area was fully covered with a thin metal shield and the only way to get to the Wolfson DAC was to RIP apart the sheild in a rather brutal method.

 Then the painstaking task of locating the output terminals - and yes the space was so scarce that I feared my soldering iron may actually wipe every other nearby VERY tiny caps.

 To cut the story short, here's the pic (with the metal shield already ripped off)















 Those wires are the 5N Solid Core pure silver (teflon insulated). The sound really give the DIYmod 5G a run for the money. Nothing short of awesome - dominantly transparent and clean as if a veil have been lifted from the Touch 1G unit.


----------



## joneeboi

That's what I figured one would have to do in order to diyMod the touch. Great pics, EFN. That's amazing work. I wonder if part of the function of the metal covers was also to help dissipate thermal energy. How does the unit run without the cover?


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dumbears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was that guy who replaced the original PO caps with the 220uF SMT capacitors._


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I figured one would have to do in order to diyMod the touch. Great pics, EFN. That's amazing work. I wonder if part of the function of the metal covers was also to help dissipate thermal energy. How does the unit run without the cover?_

 

During the trial run I don't detect any heat at the back panel. It has been passed back to the happy owner. But as far as I can see, they runs just fine.


----------



## xandman

Let me add a bit about the heat thingy...
 No it doesnt heat up...i m still wondering what is the purpose of the metal sheet...

 and EFN...nice work!
 Metallica S&M never sounded better!


----------



## dazzer1975

For those who are ultra cautious, couldn't the sheet simply be reapplied with a dab of hotglue or something?

 I don't know just throwing it out there.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who are ultra cautious, couldn't the sheet simply be reapplied with a dab of hotglue or something?

 I don't know just throwing it out there._

 

I don't see how to replace back the ripped metal sheet unless someone know how to remove them "gracefully". They were like cemented to the iPod Touch board and the action of ripping them apart will guarantee that they will be unusable after that.

 But again like xandman mentioned, there's no heat generated with the sheild ripped off. Once I have recovered my $$, I will surely buy myself an iPod Touch 1G soon - just loved the slim profile


----------



## dazzer1975

Ahh sorry, I havent seen the metal sheet, and just wondered if it would have been a possibility to reattach afterwards, but I understand to be able to remove it means it will be unuseable again. No worries


----------



## pcyl

Well Black gates are running out , well what about Elna Cap ? any review on that ? i heard it is bang for bucks, 47 uf will be just well fitted in the dock


----------



## dazzer1975

I have heard that the elna silmic II's offer better sound than the bg's but have yet to compare myself. Maybe it's just people trying to find alternatives as bg's won't be around much longer or maybe there is something in it?


----------



## pcyl

Yes we should try other cap not stick to black gates do u guys agree?


----------



## joneeboi

As of right now, there isn't anything binding diyModders to the Black Gates besides the fact that the iMod used Black Gates. There have been plenty who have ventured into other brands and series. Part of the diyMod credo is the user gets to choose whichever capacitor they want, so one could say there we've already moved away from Black Gates.


----------



## EFN

I myself have moved away from BGs for a while now. And I have found comfort in using the very fine sounding Elna SILMIC and Cerafine series. Nichicon MUSE and Fine Gold series are superb as well but they may be a bit thin sounding to my ears (compared to SILMIC)


----------



## qusp

well AFAIK they are not in short supply at all, none of my sources are anywhere near drying up; I think they6 acdtually started making them again. I still prefer them to elna, but thats just me.

 EFN, do you think the shield was there to protect the dac from EMI produced by the wifi transiever?? thats what I would guess. 

 pcyl: do you notice more interference when using Wifi than before?? I only ask because I just finnished a mod (4G photo) where I has to use twisted pairs for each channel to reduce interference produced by the HD and graphics processor.

 and about that; will post pics shortly; just have to add to photobucket


----------



## qusp

well heres some pics; sorry about the quality. I had to use a bit of epoxy to immobilize the wires as being that they are cotton insulated 28AWG 6N cardas silver, which sounds great but freys, I had to stop that process, so the solder joints near the dac are not very visable in all but a couple of pics, but they are still accessable as I only epoxied very near the joints, not over them, so service is still p[ossible at both ends if needed, but they are still immobilized so they cannot contact anything they arent supposed to, including each other.

 this one you can the joints; you can also see the remainders of my trial with leaving the inductors in the path to reduce noise, but decided to try other methods as the blitter noise was still there, not as much, but it wasnt as nice sounding... which is the main thing afterall. 






 ^^ see that I have grounded the twisted pair by soldering to the .errmm ....thingy (technical term) that connects the ground planes of the 2 circuit boards. its only grounded at the one end as there was nothing close to the dac that was easily accessable; that is why there is a bit more epoxy than you would ythink nessecary, to seal off the end not soldered to anything (drain). also, this pic isnt as scary as it looks, the wires come down from the joint on the ....thingy, so arent as close to the other inductors as they appear. all teh same I needed to epoxy it in place to avoid movement. 






 so you can see I tried to keep to the edge as much as possible





 ^^ and a very blurry one, just to show how it fits with the battery in and in the case.

 all of these pics arde in the correct orientation, so solder to the north pads near the dac and the south pads near the dock. I dont think I would use silver in cotton again, sounds great, but the fraying made it problematic. better off sticking to the silver in teflon I have. there is room for fairly decent size wires in this mod; in fact I even considered using the 24AWG cryoparts wire I just recieved, but thought best to stick to silver and I have had great results with silver in cotton with internal wiring before, but mainly point to point stuff where you can use heatshrink. I realize half these pics are of virually no use to anyone thinking of doing this mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but didnt think to take the pics until after it was done. sorry about that.

 so not the cleanest of jobs visually, as I was faced with that damn blitter noise; i'm more than happy with the result, but its not the most attractive to look at. the first incarnation was rather neat (of course I would say that) but I just wasnt happy to leave something that could be improved on. so was a bit of an experiment to try and improve on it. and happy to say that part was an absolute success and now know what is needed. will also be on the lookout for some suitable coaxial wire to use in future photo mods.


----------



## EFN

Anybody actually succeeded in DIYmodding a zune 80/120GB? I am tempted to do this sometime in the near future


----------



## qusp

NOPE, hasnt the zune already got a decently clean HP out though?? might be why noone has bothered


----------



## joneeboi

I was thinking of trying one, but the prices for these Zunes on eBay is surprisingly high. My friend has an old Zune, so maybe I'll be able to buy it off him. 

 And if the Zune sounds pretty clean, I'm sure we can clean/colour it up further.


----------



## EFN

Wouldn't the zune use the same DAC as iPod 5G yes? so I take it the output will be identical sounding if DIYmodded


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## joneeboi

See page 14 of the WM8978 datasheet. One would think that each stage would affect the overall sound for both devices, so I think part of that would depend on how both companies configured their software. They probably sound indistinguishably similar.


----------



## -=Germania=-

iPod 1G touch 

 Now confirmed. 

 The shield can be taken off without really damaging it and is actually fairly easy. 

 Go around the bottom edge of the shield with a small, flat screwdriver. Slowly lift as you go around. It should pop right off, no problem. 
 You will have to cut a bit of the frame to get to the capacitor areas. After you are done, just modify the shield for the openings in the frame. 

 Here is a Cnet Pic of what I am describing: 





 Getting the iPod touch open is a Major PIA! That was by far I thought the hardest part. 

 BTW: I wouldn't worry sooooo much about the tiny resistors at the as they are 0.1ohm and you can just put a tiny blob of solder in their place without harming anything (it will likely register on your MM as .07ohm which is pretty close. 

 The solder job took about 30-40 while I watching a show. Yay, morning project! I would say that it took at least an hour to get the iPod open though. Overall, the whole project including making a DIYmod dock took about 3 hours. 

 I actually just used some XLO solid core copper wire as it had the thinnest dielectric. 
 As of right now, I am listening with a multi strand UPOCC silver with UPOCC Copper Thick Ground and using 47uf Cerafine caps. I have some very nice 4.7uf film caps that might be worth trying in a film dock (time for Radioshack!).

 It is distinctly better than a stock iPod dock. I know that the Cerafine isn't exactly king soundstage, but I like them a bit better than BG's. 


 Thanks EFN!


----------



## EFN

Congratulations -=Germania=- on your DIYmodded Touch 1G. And thanks heaps for researching a better way to deal with the metal sheet. My tired eyes must have veiled my judgement when I tried to remove them off the first time.

 And just a quick note, I have not listened to the Touch for more than 3 hours but it was enough to convince me that the modded Touch 1G does sound a bit more transparent than the 5G, Mini and 4G counterparts. I am all set about getting myself one in the very near future. 

 Unlike others, my LOD uses very low uF for the e-Caps. My all time fav 4.7 uF Elna SILMIC worked like a charm with the modded iTouch. I'd recommend those Elnas if you can get hold of them

 Cheers


----------



## -=Germania=-

Yeah, all I had on hand in small enough packages were the 47uf cerafines. The 22uf Silmics were a bit too big for the sire I used. I also had some 10uf stargets, but they are only average quality...albeit tiny!

 I will make a film dock today (I have some Audiophiler 4.7uf) though I need to make a quick trip to radio shack for a small project box and some Mini recepticles. A cheap and temporary solution. I might get another box for my little bluetooth reciever since it got a crack from a biker hitting me at a corner.


----------



## EFN

While you are at it, snap some pics for us K, we love DIY pics.


----------



## -=Germania=-

My camera can't do macro, plus it is all back together again. It is aweful for close up stuff. I will try to show the whole rig eventually.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My camera can't do macro, plus it is all back together again. It is aweful for close up stuff. I will try to show the whole rig eventually._

 

LOL you need to get a new camera. Even my cheap Canon point and shoot have macro feature now.

 Anyway, looking forward to see your updated rig at the Portable Source section....


----------



## qusp

eventually i'll get up the gumption to do my iphone 3G, but i'll certainly need some liquid encouragement. I wonder how hard the 3G is to get open. that has been whats stopping me too; no doubt its even more of a PITA than the touch.


----------



## dazzer1975

re macro shots.

 My camera is cack at that, however, if good enough resolution camera (even 2-3 megapixels should be able to provide sufficient resolution), you should be able to take a relatively decent shot which you can then just expand in any image manipulation programme.


 Just try to get good lighting and you're set.


----------



## -=Germania=-

I have an HP e427. It does have macro feature, but it isn't very good. I can try, but the iPod is all closed up as is the Dock. maybe should have thought about it beforehand, but eh...

 I will try and get shots of the filmcap dock.


----------



## -=Germania=-

Pic of the New Film Cap Dock. 

 It is exactly 3" x 2" x 1" and just barely fits everything (required drilling). 

 Capacitors: 

 4.7uf Audiophiler MKP 3% 
 0.05uf Lily PIO (actually an extrodinary sounding old & rare japanese made PIO)

 Then there are Vampire Gold plated Copper RCA outs in addition to the side Mini out.







 The sound is incredibly organic and highly detailed with a huge soundstage. I had thought of using a wima for the bypass cap because it is an airy sound, but it has a different character from the smoothness of the audiophiler caps. I wanted this to not have a single edge because the Cerafine can be a bit edgy. It is the closest sounding thing to my TT right now. 

 LOL - my portable setup with LOD is now 6.5inches long and 2.25inches wide along with 1.5 inches thick inclduing the iPod.


----------



## pcyl

here are some of the Russian oil cap


----------



## -=Germania=-

Those are huge! How are you planning to use them?


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those are huge! How are you planning to use them?_

 

Yes i will use them on my diy home dock will followed up
 Photo later


----------



## -=Germania=-

Look forward to it!!!

 Please post pics!


----------



## ttl_ctrll

Hi everybody,
 So for my first post, I would like to thank all the people that invested time, sweat and money into making this mod possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I have done the mod on my mini and i routed the the wires from the two caps to the headphone jack. The sound is good but i was wondering if there is an issue with my ground wire. At a moderate/high level, i hear a noise comparable to when you listen to music too loud for too long. I soldered the ground to the bottom metal plate protecting the dock connector. The noise is not that much of an issue when there is no quiet passage but it gets pretty annoying when im listening to hell's bells and i hear the tuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut mixed with the bells.

 oh and by the way i'm already sorry for my wallet


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look forward to it!!!

 Please post pics!_


----------



## -=Germania=-

^^^^^^Hawt!


----------



## joneeboi

Nice pics, Peter and Germania. I like the compactness of your dock, Germania. And Peter, your dock is really slick looking. Great job with the construction, both of you.

 ttl_ctrll:

 Try desoldering the ground wire. If you're using the headphone jack, you shouldn't need to resolder the ground wire. barqy tried that a while ago, and he got battery discharge problems on his 4G. We couldn't figure out what the heck happened, but you shouldn't even need that ground wire in the first place.


----------



## ttl_ctrll

Thanks joneeboi. Well you see the way I did my mod is that I've cut the connector part of the headphone jack that connect to the main board. So I needed a new ground. What i did is desolder the wire from the dock and simply resolder it the firewire ground on pin 30. No more noise and no battery problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks for your input.


----------



## corbz

I'm a bit confused about what to do with this mod.

 I have a spare logic board (broken), that i can practice with.

 I'm just not sure what i'm ment to wire to what, and if i'm ment to de-solder certain things? Some people using capacitators, some not?

 (I only have basic knowledge of electronics) If I do this mod, am i able to just run a LOD adaptor to my Fiio e5 > headphones ?

 Or..

 Thanks for any help, this site has allready gotten me to buy a small amp and IEM's.


 edit: 5.5g iPod.


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice pics, Peter and Germania. I like the compactness of your dock, Germania. And Peter, your dock is really slick looking. Great job with the construction, both of you.

 ttl_ctrll:

 Try desoldering the ground wire. If you're using the headphone jack, you shouldn't need to resolder the ground wire. barqy tried that a while ago, and he got battery discharge problems on his 4G. We couldn't figure out what the heck happened, but you shouldn't even need that ground wire in the first place.
_

 

thank you Joneeboi for the appraise i shall post up the breakdown of the Dock built


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *corbz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm a bit confused about what to do with this mod.

 I have a spare logic board (broken), that i can practice with.

 I'm just not sure what i'm ment to wire to what, and if i'm ment to de-solder certain things? Some people using capacitators, some not?

 (I only have basic knowledge of electronics) If I do this mod, am i able to just run a LOD adaptor to my Fiio e5 > headphones ?

 Or..

 Thanks for any help, this site has allready gotten me to buy a small amp and IEM's.


 edit: 5.5g iPod._

 


 Well prefer guage 30 wire for my preference i prefer copper with silver plated
 but i also have the other ipod using home grown silver also gauge 30 ,the 5.5 g will preferred use external cap unless your ipod video run on CF (conversion i mean)
 do you want to see the set of tool i use ? i have done more than a dozen till now


----------



## joneeboi

The diyMod is a DAC output coupling capacitor replacement modification for portable digital media players. DACs put out quite a bit of DC in their signal, but we don't want DC in our dynamic speakers and headphones because too much of it will fry them for good. Dynamics use a coil of very thin wire around a magnet, and those thin wires will melt if there's too much DC put through them. For most headphones, 20mV is the upper threshold of DC tolerance at comfortable listening volumes. Below this limit, we are usually considered safe. Now, taking iPods as an example, their DACs put out as much 2VDC which is already way too high before being amplified. Since most of us are amplifying our signals, it would behoove us to get rid of this DC before it destroys our end audio equipment.

 There are several ways of getting rid of that DC, but the cheapest and simplest way is to put a capacitor in series with the signal. Now, one can do put this capacitor in front of or behind the amplifier in the signal path, but putting it in front allows us to use smaller, often higher quality capacitors than if we use them on an amp's output. For instance, the Millett Hybrid series of amplifiers all use coupling capacitors on the output, but because the capacitor will form a high pass filter with the headphone impedance, you lose bass information unless you use a lot of capacitance. And then you're forced to use an electrolytic capacitor, which often doesn't sound as detailed as film types. Then you start getting into arguments with people about whether Black Gates and Cerafines and Muses are better than this or that, and then whether bypassing makes a difference, and whether anyone can really hear the difference at all, and how much money did you spend on your capacitors, and a bunch of headaches and strong opinions which are freely available for your enjoyment in our museum of threads at head-fi. I could go on, but I don't want to bash your head in with too much info. Does that make sense?


----------



## dumbears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well prefer guage 30 wire for my preference i prefer copper with silver plated
 but i also have the other ipod using home grown silver also gauge 30 ,the 5.5 g will preferred use external cap unless your ipod video run on CF (conversion i mean)
 do you want to see the set of tool i use ? i have done more than a dozen till now_

 

Mine, mine, mine. I just broke an iPod 5.5 PCB due to the heavy 24AWG wire with caps. Yes, I was modding an iPod 5.5 with caps (of course, it runs on CF).
 Next trial, I will put my bids on some 28AWG wire. I'm looking at Jupiter silver cotton wire. Would anyone be kind enough to advise me how to cut the cotton wire wrap?

 Moreover, I have another question, which I asked before but yet to be answered. May I mod without removing the caps below L2 & L3 and C64 & C66? I think these caps can help to hold the wires if they aren't being removed.

 One additional question, where are your favorite solder points? BTW, would you pls to share some photos of your work?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## pcyl

here is one of the LOD i make from far look like ALO super cotton actually some woven plastic netting


----------



## pcyl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dumbears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine, mine, mine. I just broke an iPod 5.5 PCB due to the heavy 24AWG wire with caps. Yes, I was modding an iPod 5.5 with caps (of course, it runs on CF).
 Next trial, I will put my bids on some 28AWG wire. I'm looking at Jupiter silver cotton wire. Would anyone be kind enough to advise me how to cut the cotton wire wrap?

 Moreover, I have another question, which I asked before but yet to be answered. May I mod without removing the caps below L2 & L3 and C64 & C66? I think these caps can help to hold the wires if they aren't being removed.

 One additional question, where are your favorite solder points? BTW, would you pls to share some photos of your work?

 Thanks in advance._

 

solder on with home grown silver cable gauge 30


----------



## dumbears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pcyl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_solder on with home grown silver cable gauge $30




_

 

Thank you for both images. One more question: are you solder the wire on both connection points of L2? My previous failure is my wire being too thick and it isn't holding steady in its place even though I had taped it.


----------



## pcyl

Well i have done this on Free hand, another tips is to solder on the DAC side first and USE blue Tag


----------



## dumbears

How thick is your wire? Mine was 24AWG. I'll do my wiring with a 28AWG wire on another iPod Video PCB.


----------



## sputnik13

Not sure how many people would care, but I just have to share this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I successfully modded my 4G iPod.











 I was so proud of myself for doing such a clean job on the soldering, but then I made a series of really stupid mistakes that led to lifting the L2 pad. Fortunately, with a little probing I realized that the little silver circle above where I soldered the wire at L2 was a test point for that trace. So I resoldered the wire onto that and all is working as it should 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The sound doesn't sound that phenomenal to me right now, I'm chocking that up to the blackgates needing burn in. It sounds at least as good as my Sony S738 right now, so I guess it'll only get better with burn in.

 The series of stupid mistakes first started with trying to jam the iPod closed with the BG caps installed below the hard drive kokokrunch style. When I did get it closed, I must have dislodged something because it didn't turn on. So I reopened it the hard drive was wedged between a BG and the headphone port and totally tore the BG off of the wire that I'd soldered onto it. Then while trying to strip the wire to resolder it to the BG, I tore it off the board along with the trace at L2.

 Mistake #1 was actually not hot-gluing the wires to the board after I'd soldered them, thinking I'd do it after I verified everything is working because I don't want to try and remove the hot-glue if it didn't work. Then the chain of events above... after reattaching the BG and the wire, I hot-glued everything down and I installed a CF card so I wouldn't have to bother with trying to jam the hard drive in there. I have a ultra slim 40GB external drive now as my portable hard drive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So the iPod is working now, but the LOD is another issue. I got one of the fancy shmancy thing ultra low-pro dock connectors from Ridax. Well, I didn't have tweezers, so I couldn't pull the extra pins out to give myself enough room to do the soldering. Also the length of the 3 conductors are off so one wire is sticking way out... it's just a mess right now. But it works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Next task is to clean up the LOD and continue burn-in.


----------



## ttl_ctrll

I dont know if anybody else experienced this but when i turn the knob of my cmoy, i hear some static noise that decreases gradually with time. I am sure that the problem isnt the amp because i've plugged it in my macbook and it doesnt do it. I only hear it when i plug it in my diymod mini. The DAC is connected to the amp input which has 0.63 uF inline caps integrated in the amp. I must add that ive added caps in series between the DAC and the input and i had the same issue. My ground is connected to the firewire ground on pin 30.

 I measured the dc output to my headphones and i get 0.8 mV to the right and 0.0 mV to the left. Now, i hear that static noise mainly from the right earphone. I would like to know if that noise is due to that dc voltage or something else. 


 I also tried measuring the dc output when i used my macbook and i had the same 0.8 mV to the right and 0.0 to the left and i dont any static noise when i turn the knob.

 Im quite confused 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...i wish i could talk to an electrical engineer or something lol


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## dazzer1975

I had the same issue with a lod I made for my diymod while using pin 15 for ground. I usually use pins 2, 3 and 4 and indeed once I had rigged up a diymod lod using pins 2, 3 and 4 the issue cleared up.

 Continuity checked out but I had obviously bridged somewhere or done something wrong, but since I returned to using 2,3 and 4 I havent had any issue... which is strange really as its even tighter soldering 3 pins in close proximity rather than just 2 but hey ho


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## ttl_ctrll

thanks dazzer. what ive done in an attempt to solve this is make a dock connector that can connect externally the two ground pins but unfortunately this hasnt solved the issue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my only option left is to reopen the ipod and resolder the ground for for some reason i dont this the ground is the issue here because if it were, i would her the static on both sides right? 

 This is not that much of an issue when i am not changing the volume so i guess it live with it because every time i open the ipod up, i risk to loosen up a wire or lift a pad or something that i dont wanna do lol

 thanks for you help and the next diymod im gonna do, im going to use pin 1 for the ground haha


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## joneeboi

Sounds like it's a problem with the connection somewhere in either your LOD or your diyMod. I'd recommend you open up your diyMod and make sure everything is secure. If you have other LODs, you should try them and see if they cause the same static issue. That way, you may not have to open up your diyMod again. If you can isolate the problem to your LOD, you can save yourself the trouble. Otherwise, redo your wiring so that the problem doesn't reoccur.

 If you're hearing static, it's likely an AC signal which won't be detected when your multimeter is set under "VDC." The iPod can have quite a bit of hiss, especially when charging the battery, but that's likely not what you're hearing. The absence of the static when your amp is connected to your Macbook suggests the problem lies in your diyMod mini. You may also want to consider not using a capped LOD with your amp if it already has input capacitors. If you haven't already, you may want to read Tangent's short article, Input Capacitors for Headphone Amps, to learn why.


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## sputnik13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttl_ctrll* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont know if anybody else experienced this but when i turn the knob of my cmoy, i hear some static noise that decreases gradually with time. I am sure that the problem isnt the amp because i've plugged it in my macbook and it doesnt do it. I only hear it when i plug it in my diymod mini. The DAC is connected to the amp input which has 0.63 uF inline caps integrated in the amp. I must add that ive added caps in series between the DAC and the input and i had the same issue. My ground is connected to the firewire ground on pin 30.

 I measured the dc output to my headphones and i get 0.8 mV to the right and 0.0 mV to the left. Now, i hear that static noise mainly from the right earphone. I would like to know if that noise is due to that dc voltage or something else. 


 I also tried measuring the dc output when i used my macbook and i had the same 0.8 mV to the right and 0.0 to the left and i dont any static noise when i turn the knob.

 Im quite confused 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ...i wish i could talk to an electrical engineer or something lol_

 

I actually don't understand how it's working at all the way you wired it. I believe that firewire ground at pin 30 you connected your audio ground to shouldn't actually ground. If I'm not mistaken, the firewire and USB ground are ground from the perspective of the firewire/usb host. i.e., power is coming in to the iPod through usb/firewire power, and out through the ground. The audio ground, on the other hand, would have the current go the other direction, out the left/right and back in to the iPod through pin 1/2 ground.

 I'm assuming that when you say that you "connected ground to pin 30", you mean on the LOD, not internally on the iPod. If it's the latter, what are you grounding? The diyMod only requires that you reroute left and right, you should've been able to leave ground as is. Otherwise, if it's the LOD then yeah, I think you should just move ground to pin 1.


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## joneeboi

Pins 1, 2, 15, 16, 29 and 30 are all the same ground, so it wouldn't matter which one he connected to.

 Also, very nice pics of your mod. I always appreciate it when people report back to the thread on their experiences with the diyMod, especially if there are excellent photos involved. Thanks for sharing. Are your wires secure now?


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## sputnik13

OK, my mistake.

 Yes, the wires are secure now, but the pad lifted from that test point that I soldered to because the cap wasn't secured and the movement of the cap when opening and closing the case I guess put too much torque on that and caused it to come off. I managed to make a solder bridge between the wire and the through hole that the traces go through to get to the other side of the board, because there was a little bit of bare metal there that I can get a tone through with a continuity tester.

 So when I got it to make contact, I splattered so much hot glue down on the wire and then secured the cap by hot gluing it to the board. I think I destroyed the LCD while disconnecting it from the main board though. That ribbon cable is real tough to get off and put back on. I ordered a new screen on eBay for $8 though, so no biggy.

 The audio is great though right now. I made an LOD with a nice little low-profile dock connector and hooked up both line-out and USB. This took me much longer than I'd wanted because I kept making the same mistake over and over with soldering the USB wires to the dock connector. I ended up filling the inside of the dock connector completely with hot glue to make sure the solder joints wouldn't move or break (the iPod ordeal made me paranoid in this respect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).











 For anyone making their first LODs, I recommend you get a pair of needle nose pliers if you don't have one, and pull out ALL of the pins. Then insert the ones you need one at a time as you solder them. I found this to be the easiest way to avoid inadvertently making solder bridges because your hand twitched. This is what I ended up doing after spending something around 7 hours working and reworking the LOD


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## ttl_ctrll

the way ive connected my mini is actually very simple. I used the headphone jack of the ipod and cut the traces that come from the board. Then, ive soldered the DAC outputs to the headphone jack. Ive grounded the jack by connecting a wire to pin 30. This allows me to use my headphone jack instead of a LOD. Ive also put the caps inside my amp.

 The reason ive used a LOD is to short pin 30 to pin 1 to make sure that both are the same ground.

 I wish i could take pictures but my old hp camera doesnt do macro very well. 

 Since the problem is not my amp, the only thing i can see that could be a problem is that the cable insulation ripped somewhere between the two solder points in my mini and it is interfering with the signal when i change the volume. 

 This hardly makes sense to me that the static noise only occurs when i change the volume but i guess ill open up the mini another time because im getting my triple fi tomorrow and i wanna listen to them at least once before i mess with the mini.


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## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sputnik13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For anyone making their first LODs, I recommend you get a pair of needle nose pliers if you don't have one, and pull out ALL of the pins. Then insert the ones you need one at a time as you solder them. I found this to be the easiest way to avoid inadvertently making solder bridges because your hand twitched. This is what I ended up doing after spending something around 7 hours working and reworking the LOD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's how I make them too. I solder the 3 pins alone to the wires, then I insert them, glue everything down, and last I add shrink tube, cut the wires to length etc. This really only works if you're using individual strands of wire (although you can use multiples). If you're using something like Mogami wire where it's all bundled... well good luck


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## Ubijza

Hello diyModders
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 This thread grabbed my imagination long time ago (I mean iMod equivalent with Vcap dock equivalent for $100!! Cant beat that!) And now its coming to the stage where I have some time to actually attempt this.

 I have a few questions:
 1. Do people use silver solder or some other "audiophile" solder? Or just traditional 62-38? Will 62.38 solder "cancel out" the sound property of a silver wire?
 2. Which silver (I want silver for bright sound) 30g wire should I use, where should I get it from in UK? I liked the wire that Qusp was talking about - it had insulation film that melted with solder or something- this made stripping easy and there was little chance of short-circuiting something...
 3. Could someone kindly give the EXACT name of black gates that RWA uses for their portable mod?

 Cheers guys!


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## sputnik13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's how I make them too. I solder the 3 pins alone to the wires, then I insert them, glue everything down, and last I add shrink tube, cut the wires to length etc. This really only works if you're using individual strands of wire (although you can use multiples). If you're using something like Mogami wire where it's all bundled... well good luck _

 

In hindsight, that's what I should have done as well. But I had already braided the wires for the lineout, and the USB cable is "bundled" as you say. I soldered the wires to the pins while the pin was in the dock connector. But just not having any pins that were waiting to be soldered in the way when I was trying to solder one pin just helped to speed things along the 5th or 6th time I was resoldering the thing.

 Learned the hard way for sure, but I'll NEVER forget it now


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## sputnik13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ubijza* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello diyModders
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 This thread grabbed my imagination long time ago (I mean iMod equivalent with Vcap dock equivalent for $100!! Cant beat that!) And now its coming to the stage where I have some time to actually attempt this.

 I have a few questions:
 1. Do people use silver solder or some other "audiophile" solder? Or just traditional 62-38? Will 62.38 solder "cancel out" the sound property of a silver wire?
 2. Which silver (I want silver for bright sound) 30g wire should I use, where should I get it from in UK? I liked the wire that Qusp was talking about - it had insulation film that melted with solder or something- this made stripping easy and there was little chance of short-circuiting something...
 3. Could someone kindly give the EXACT name of black gates that RWA uses for their portable mod?

 Cheers guys!_

 

No comment on the solder and silver wire. I used Kapton insulated 26awg silver plated copper from navships on ebay and silver solder that I got from Frys. Does solder really make a huge difference? Given that the signal is not traveling any significant distance on the solder, I would think the signal degradation, if any, would be minimal. Certainly minute enough that I would never notice.

 As for the capacitor, the first page gives you the options for capacitors. I used 6.3V NX/47 that I purchased at soniccraft.com. In fact I got a bunch of them so I could have them handy incase I messed up and also for future mods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 In the near future, I hope to take a 5.5G 30GB iPod and throw in a 32GB CF card and diyMod it with BGs internally, and add a couple more wires from the DAC to some other unused pins bypassing the BG and making an external dock with bigger boutique caps like Cardas, Auricap, or what have you. Best of both worlds! When I'm away from home, I have BGs internally for portability, when I'm at home I have the big caps for better sound out of a desktop amp (which I need to get around to sourcing and building too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

 Ahh... so many things to experiment with, so little time...


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## -=Germania=-

Silver does not equal bright. 

 A high purity/ high quality silver will sound neutral and can have great bass.

 The difference is that copper tends to sound more smooth and silver a bit more detail oriented. I am a big fan of UPOCC Silver in Cotton, but be prepared to drop about $25-30 for the amount of wire. I also like using two strands of thinner solid core when possible. You have less problems with skin effect and seems to sound like it has more body that way.


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## joneeboi

Ubijza:

 1. and 2. - I say your money is better spent elsewhere. Invest in your headphones and amplifier. You likely won't hear the difference with such short wires.

 3. I don't know which exact capacitor is used in the iMod, but a good bet would be the Black Gate NX Hi-Q 47uF or 22uF 6.3V capacitor.


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## Ubijza

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ubijza:

 1. and 2. - I say your money is better spent elsewhere. Invest in your headphones and amplifier. You likely won't hear the difference with such short wires.

 3. I don't know which exact capacitor is used in the iMod, but a good bet would be the Black Gate NX Hi-Q 47uF or 22uF 6.3V capacitor._

 

Cheers for that Joneeboi!

 My amp is Meier Corda Move and my phones are Westone 3/ waiting for Um3x/ Senn 580... So if there is any truth in silver/copper sounding different I should be able to hear it


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## dumbears

I know there isn't any special in sharing a photo of my iPod Video diyMod.






 You may notice the wires are bit thick. Yes, they are - 24 AWG. I'm hereby to warn others to avoid using this "thick" wire. I killed my first iPod Video PCB mainly due to the thick wire - they are difficult to tame and solder. Get some thinner ones.


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## joneeboi

The photo is appreciated all the same. Others can learn from the mountain of experience in this thread, and posts like yours add to the mountain's immensity. Others will learn from your experience.

 Thanks for sharing.


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## Ubijza

Ok, I 've tried the iPod Video 5G diyMod - what a an amazing adventure! I have never even tried soldering before, and to be at the stage where I am now - ie one step away from having made this thing with my own hands feels pretty terrific!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am "one step away" because my diyMod has no sound in left earphone when playing through capped LOD. The LOD itself is fine (I tested it with another Ipod and it sounds great - a relief after having spent something like 7 hours on its design/construction. My take home message is :" pull out the dock pins, solder them to wires/caps, THEN reinsert- do not solder onto already inserted pins as solder seeps down, makes bridges, melts into plastic and irreversibly ruins the dock"). 

 I have successfully desoldered both Zs near DAC, L2 and L3; and also tiny capacitors directly under L2 and L3 (c64 and c65?). Then secured the wires (33AWG Cardas tone arm) and soldered them like in instructions of AWSOME Aaron Lee (» page five)...

 I think there are two possible reasons on why I only get audio in right channel -both of them are directly related to the wire that connects left Z and L3 (it is the left channel path isnt it?). One - possible bridge with nearby L4. Another possible reason is that I possibly lifted a pad when desoldering the tiny cap that was directly underneath L3...

 I would like some advice- is it possible that lifted pad under cap that is under L3 breaks the circuit of left channel audio (even though my wires are not connected to this pad)? What does a lifted pad look like? would a bridge with L4 cause complete absence of audio? 

 COuld I now leave my right channel wire were it is and resolder my left channel wire to top pad under L3? Or do I have to resolder both wires to pads under L3?

 Lastly- I have a Digital Multimeter, what kind of reading could i take to check everything (where to take them and what numbers to expect)?

 Many thanks again to Joneeboi and everybody else here - this thread is truly amazing!!!


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## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ubijza* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I 've tried the iPod Video 5G diyMod - what a an amazing adventure! I have never even tried soldering before, and to be at the stage where I am now - ie one step away from having made this thing with my own hands feels pretty terrific!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

gutsy effort!! kudos for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


 I am "one step away" because my diyMod has no sound in left earphone when playing through capped LOD. The LOD itself is fine (I tested it with another Ipod and it sounds great - a relief after having spent something like 7 hours on its design/construction. My take home message is :" pull out the dock pins, solder them to wires/caps, THEN reinsert- do not solder onto already inserted pins as solder seeps down, makes bridges, melts into plastic and irreversibly ruins the dock"). 
 

wow, melting plastic on the dock, you must be using an insanely hot soldering iron and leaving the tip on there WAY TOO LONG fopr that to happen. myself I leave all the pins in and simply bend them away from each other a bit. never have any problems with solder bridges at all. plus I like to start at the mini with LODs anyway as it makes it easier to thread the barrel on and get a neat braid that goes all the way into the barrel.

  Quote:


 I have successfully desoldered both Zs near DAC, L2 and L3; and also tiny capacitors directly under L2 and L3 (c64 and c65?). Then secured the wires (33AWG Cardas tone arm) and soldered them like in instructions of AWSOME Aaron Lee (» page five)... 
 

how many times do me and others on here have to post that 

 [size=large]YOU DONT HAVE TO REMOVE THE CAPS OR ANYTHING!!![/size]
 just leave everything on the board and solder to the parts. I can understand the want to do it, just to be complete and I do it still every bnow and then. but its not at all necessary; the signal will take the path of least resistance and that path will be your wires. much less chance of something like a lifted pad that way.

  Quote:


 I think there are two possible reasons on why I only get audio in right channel -both of them are directly related to the wire that connects left Z and L3 (it is the left channel path isnt it?). One - possible bridge with nearby L4. Another possible reason is that I possibly lifted a pad when desoldering the tiny cap that was directly underneath L3... 
 

yes a short to L4 could result in no audio. my suggestion now that you dont have a great deal to loose (just being honest here) is to try and clean up the area a little with a desoldering braid and maybe take a pic as close as you can for us to have a look at. the next thing you can do is to use some other pins for output and remake your LOD using the corresponding pins. if you are sure the connections at the dac are sound, then you could use the firewire data pins (can remember which ones they are, but look it up) they dont get used with ipods after the 4G anyway. 

  Quote:


 I would like some advice- is it possible that lifted pad under cap that is under L3 breaks the circuit of left channel audio (even though my wires are not connected to this pad)? What does a lifted pad look like? would a bridge with L4 cause complete absence of audio? 
 

a lifted pad looks like nothing; there will be nothing there where there is supposed to be a little silver pad, if solder will not stick to the area there is supposed to be a pad, chances are you lifted it, but not all is lost ^^ see above.

  Quote:


 COuld I now leave my right channel wire were it is and resolder my left channel wire to top pad under L3? Or do I have to resolder both wires to pads under L3? 
 

huh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yoiu mean the pads under L3 and L4?? sure you can leave the right channel where it is, but I would suggest first checking for shorts and then if you have lifted a pad, move on and find another unused dock pin to send the left channel to. soldering to the pads underneath wont work.

  Quote:


 Lastly- I have a Digital Multimeter, what kind of reading could i take to check everything (where to take them and what numbers to expect)? 
 

well to check for a short, just put it on either ohms setting or continuity and test for continuity across L3-L4. using ohms, you should get close to zero if there is a circuit (you dont want there to be a circuit normally, but this will at least tell you where the problem is, so maybe you do want it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as a bridge is easier to deal with than a lifted pad), using continuity it will depend on your meter what you get, some will just give a simple yes or no type answer and some will give you a reading of close to zero, like 0.01; either way it will be obvious if you dont have a circuit. look at the instruction that came with your meter.

  Quote:


 Many thanks again to Joneeboi and everybody else here - this thread is truly amazing!!! 
 

yeah its a great resource, hope I was able to help, i'm sure jon will drop in and help out as well. I havent been here for a bit as i've been really busy, but i'll pop back in to see how you went, if you need clarification i'll help where I can.


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## Ubijza

I D I D I T !!!!!!! omg
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Many thanks for your detailed and encouraging answer Qusp, it really helped (especially the multimeter tip- I found the culprit bridge because of it!)!!!

 I finally have an iMod...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm long past being a teenager, but somehow I feel like a child who found a super present under a Xmas tree. Psychology is right - unexpected rewards are the more gratifying ones, I 've not been this pleased with some material "good" for a long-long while. Feel great!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ABSOLUTELY love the sound too- even through Corda Move>iBuds I was spellbound by the purity-clarity-authority and light effortlessness of the new signal- I'm in love with my baby!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here is the picture: 



 [size=medium]Regarding the removal of capacitors/inductors[/size] - I've changed course after 1st year of my Physics degree and forgot everything I've learnt there from it (felt much better after doing so too), but the "path of least resistance" argument did not sound convincing to me when applied to diyMod... Indeed, I did a quick look on wiki and quote: "the amount of current through each path is inversely proportional to its electrical resistance." This of course means that, while MOST of the current would go through the newly soldered wires due to their relatively lower resistance, SOME (10%? 20%? 30? 40? who knows) crap -ie stock iPod LO sound- WILL mix with the pure DAC sound. I did not want that- even 10% of sound quality is worthwhile a few minutes of desoldering/few dead nerve cells
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Especially after I went out and bought cryo wires, silver solder and Silmic2 caps to put into the thing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 [size=large]Ubi's tips for diy soldering noobs[/size]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (This was my first ever soldering project, I've never even tried soldering two piecies of wire beforehand). This IS doable, dont get discoraged if you've never soldered before. A bit of patience, a bit of self belief and a good night of sleep beforehand is all thats needed. I suggest the following routine:

 1. Watch "tangent soldering tutorials"- especially tute 1 -soldering equipment, tute 2 -soldering and tute 3- desoldering. They are only about 6-7 minutes long. Google them.

 2. Buy pretty much everything what Tangent says - *soldering iron *(cheap one, but not THE cheapest. I got exactly the same $9 iron as Tangent was advising in his tute), *Eutactic solder* (Take Five audio Cardas Eutactic Rosin Core Silver Solder for $3 for 10g - plenty for several diyMods. Eutactic means solder goes from liquid to solid extremely quickly which makes the whole process MUCH easier. I was given some cheap non-eutactic (60/40) solder with my iron and the difference is pretty huge - cold solder joints ahoy! with that one);
 Ipod dock or 2, a few mini connectors, some quality wire (why save pennies an then wonder if your diyMod is as good as it could have been?) Take Five sell 99.9999% pure cryo silver and copper wires for less then $7 a foot (1 foot is enough for one LOD connector), also buy quality 30+AWG wire for inside iPod), "helping hands with magnifying glass" ($5), cellulose kitchen sponge for the iron, capacitors for the lod (I got ELNA SILMIC2 47uf 6.3V from beezar.com - following advice from EFN who likened them to full size film caps sound wise). I also found solvent free "liquid Nails" glue to be useful at some stages too.

 3. Dont start with desoldering ipod's insides! I made a mini-mini interconnect with single molecule 99.9999% pure copper wires ($3-4 per foot) to start my soldering career. It was easy, but still a challenge +I needed a mini-mini anyway. Immediate saving of 30-40$
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 2. Then, having seen first hand how solder flows, step up to harder challenge - capped LOD. First, lay all wires, caps, dock, mini plug. Cut wires to length (ground should be longer as it's not capped). LOD layout is simple: 
 iPod Right output -> capacitor -> Right output 
 iPod Left output -> capacitor2 -> Left output 
 Ground -> Ground

 NB: +ve terminal of capacitor (longer leg) soldered to ipod output pin of the dock, -ve leg (striped side of capacitor) soldered to your wire.

 I still maintain that it is easier to solder to pulled out pins - I did not mean that I melted the plastic around the pins, but rather that liquid solder seeped flowed into the slits in which these pins sit. After ruining my first dock in such a manner I pulled out all the pins and soldered the three needed ones (R,L,Ground) separately. Altogether I spent at least 5 hours on the damn LOD, it was a steep learning curve, but manageable and unlike with ipod insides there is no "game over"- you CAN "hit continue" and carry on with your learning. After you are able to solder tiny dock pins to caps /wires, you're ready to tackle the iPod's insides...

 3. Actually after the pains with the LOD connector, the insides work was a bit an anticlimax- its not that hard. If not for silly mistakes - due to impatient rushing to finish the mod before day's end- I would have saved myself a few nerve cells and a few hours too. This guide is perfect for info on how to open the iPod - iPod Original -good hi res photos and explanations.
 Tangent's desoldering tute needs to applied to a letter - solder the tip of the iron, clean, quickly move from one side of the component to the other.
 Then lay out the wire - VERY finicky and VERY important. I would suggest using tape very generously to secure the wire before soldering. Best way is to shape the cables so that they lie EXACTLY on the pads you are to solder it to, so that you only have to briefly TOUCH them with clean slightly soldered iron and wires stick immediately. If I was to do another mod, I would also *[size=small]use a thin sewing needle to thinly spread "liquid nails" paste onto the parts that your wire connections MIGHT bridge to (ie as an insulator)[/size]* - I ended up doing this after I found the shorting points- but it would be infinitely easier to do so in advance. 
 Then check that everything sounds wonderful, and apply liquid nails paste to replace the abundance of sticky tape. Liquid nails is perfect as it is immediately thick enough to "trap" the wires and stop them from moving and yet does not set instantly (like hot glue).

 PS Dont skimp on quality materials, I didn't and I cant see how one could not notice the sound quality class shift when compared to stock iPod LO!

 Sorry for repeating what was said hundred times over in this brilliant, amazing thread, but maybe someone will find my personal little overview to be useful!


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## joneeboi

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience, Ubjiza. We're all celebrating with you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on your first soldering experience. Thanks to qusp as well for covering support for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, thanks a lot for your tips on soldering, Ubijza. I think it really empowers other beginners to try their hand at the iron when they see posts like yours. I'm definitely going to use your post for others. Thanks for paying it forward.

 Also, I just wanted to keep you all updated: I hammered out a *lot* of gallery work this past weekend for the new website. I uploaded most of the guides (pretty much verbatim to the OP), but at least they're stowed away and neatly organized in a way that doesn't bombard ISPs' bandwidth for those that are sensitive to verbose forum posts. Now my largest task is collecting all the images in this thread, filing them by model and modder, adding them to their respective galleries, and adding comments. Meanwhile, I'm learning about this CSS programming language, and I usually shy away from programming. Not the worst thing in the world, but it is the start of something new (no, I've never watched HSM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). That's a huge task especially when I'm juggling work, church, youth group, teaching guitar (I've been playing since January, teaching since March; go figure), and a girlfriend. Slow progress, but it'll be magnificent when complete. As usual, the website is a perpetual work in progress.

 Also, thanks to all those following this thread that have helped push it past 200k views. I'm vain, and I'm constantly checking the stats. Cheers, readers.


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## Ubijza

Thanks for your kind words, Joneeboi! 
 Looking forward to your new guide, please feel free to use my above post in any way you feel fit. For the most part its a simple reiteration of other people's words, apart from (I think so anyway) my idea to insulate potential shorting points with liquid nails glue...

 Oh, and I also disputed your advice on not desoldering the components haha (sorry), perhaps my above reasoning is wrong of course...

 MANY-MANY thanks again for starting and looking after this amazing thread! 
 Cheers!


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## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ubijza* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your kind words, Joneeboi! 
 Looking forward to your new guide, please feel free to use my above post in any way you feel fit. For the most part its a simple reiteration of other people's words, apart from (I think so anyway) my idea to insulate potential shorting points with liquid nails glue..._

 

errrmm no sorry, your idea to use glue to insulate the wires is not new i'm afraid. anyone who has some electronics experience and some that dont will do that. I use 5 minute epoxy.

  Quote:


 Oh, and I also disputed your advice on not desoldering the components haha (sorry), perhaps my above reasoning is wrong of course... 
 

 thats why you short the caps on the board as well if you want to be that finicky. all the same I still do remove them for completeness most of the time I guess, but I must've done about 50+ of these, I wouldnt really recommend it to someone with no experience though, as the difference is not really audible to me.

 Jon: no worries man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 looking forward to the new site being fully operational. i'll have some new pics for you shortly of docks and a couple of mods.


----------



## TeraHz

Hi, I just wanted to report another success on the Nano 2G.

 I followed the pics and shorted the path to the pins, made myself a lod with two BG 47uf caps inside and there is sound via my mini3. 

 Two things I'd like to note:

 the soldering is pretty hard as most said, but I happened to have a very small tip for my soldering station, so that made things much easier.

 Sound quality is probably a bit better at the moment. The path is: diymod nano 2g -> BG 47uf LOD -> mini3 -> Grado SR80

 I noticed that the mini3 can amplify the sound a lot! However maybe only 1/3 of it is usable as there is a high pitched hiss that comes with the signal. Even if no music is playing, when the mini3 is at max the noise/hiss is horrendous. 

 I doubt this is due to BG burn-in period, rather something is not perfect with my work on the mini3, lod and/or diymod (which is the easiest/fastest to do part imo).

 Now in order to hear that hiss, I have to up the volume to more than what the nano can amplify from its headphone out, but still it doesn't sound right that there is hiss/noise in the headphones in a world where the caps matter for sound quality 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh yes, the mini3 is default high-performance configuration.

 If you have any suggestions for me, please post. I will do all kinds of tests just to make this perfect, because my friends now mock me, that I do all this work and in the end I end up with a bulky mp3 player, and hiss in the headphones...

 joneeboi, great work on the diymod!


----------



## Kaydes

G'day,
 I have 3 iPod 5.5g and 2 4g iPods that im going to DiyMod, I have 8 47uf Blackgates and two 22uf's (just to compare the difference). Whats the personal preferences of the caps? whats the favourite?
 I have an 80gb 5.5g ipod video im modding, im putting in a cf adapter and have plenty of room. Will putting 4 caps instead of 2 make a difference?


----------



## joneeboi

TeraHz:

 Check your solder points. See if there are any bridges anywhere, and take pictures if you can. I've found that taking super hi-res, super sharp macro pictures can help you identify problems if you take the photo right. Consider it a weak microscope without the orientation difference. This goes for both the diyMod wiring and the LOD.

 Kaydes:

 In my diyMod 4G, I could hear a pretty clear difference between 22uF and 47uF. The bass is better with the 47, but it ultimately comes down to how much you like what you're hearing. You get more bass with the 47, but maybe you don't want all that bass. Your call.

 Also, paralleling Black Gates is supposed to make them really good. I can't say you'll hear the improvement, so do what you like. With large electrolytic caps, some like to bypass with small film caps for better higher frequency performance. That's another grey area, but something you can try. In general, films are faster than electrolytics, but Black Gates seem to be the exception depending on who you talk to. Do what sounds good to you.


----------



## direcow

hmz... maybe I'll try to run BGs in parallel in a dock.


----------



## TeraHz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TeraHz:

 Check your solder points. See if there are any bridges anywhere, and take pictures if you can. I've found that taking super hi-res, super sharp macro pictures can help you identify problems if you take the photo right. Consider it a weak microscope without the orientation difference. This goes for both the diyMod wiring and the LOD.
 <snip>_

 

Checked for bridges doesn't seem like there are any. Checked with the loupe and with the fluke 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does it matter which ground I use in the LOD? I used the big metal part of the connector for ground, maybe I need to use pin 2?

 I'm waiting for my camera to come so I can take some pics...


----------



## Kaydes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TeraHz:

 Kaydes:

 In my diyMod 4G, I could hear a pretty clear difference between 22uF and 47uF. The bass is better with the 47, but it ultimately comes down to how much you like what you're hearing. You get more bass with the 47, but maybe you don't want all that bass. Your call.

 Also, paralleling Black Gates is supposed to make them really good. I can't say you'll hear the improvement, so do what you like. With large electrolytic caps, some like to bypass with small film caps for better higher frequency performance. That's another grey area, but something you can try. In general, films are faster than electrolytics, but Black Gates seem to be the exception depending on who you talk to. Do what sounds good to you._

 

Thank you!
 I'm actually not all that good with 'understanding' the whole theoretical side of this, I just wanna solder it in and try it. How would you run the circuit through two caps on each signal?
 Ohh... and I do indeed like my bass


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## joneeboi

TeraHz:

 I recommend using any of pins 15, 16, 29 and 30. I recommend against using pins 1 and 2, but a lot of people seem to insist on it. It makes for a much riskier, less reliable operation, so I don't know why everyone uses it. Also of note, pins 1, 2, 15, 16, 29 and 30 are all the same ground signal.

 Kaydes:

 Google "bypass capacitors" and "parallel signals." It's tough to explain in a single post.


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## dazzer1975

to use a bypass cap, you would solder cable to one leg of cap, other leg to signal pin of the dock and then use your bypass cap by connecting one of its legs to one side of the cap already soldered into place, and the free leg to the other one. 

 ill try and knock up a pic in paint as my technical language is not exactly where it should be lol

 infact, after knocking up a picture in paint, my schematic drawing skills are non existant too lmao but hey, for a layman it should tell ya exactly what ya need to know:

 same principle for axial's and bare in mind the pic just shows one signal cable, for both left and right you would just repeat.

 edit, ignore the bottom picture altogether, it is irrelevant and shows caps in series, not parallel, the top picture is what ya want


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TeraHz:

 Check your solder points. See if there are any bridges anywhere, and take pictures if you can. I've found that taking super hi-res, super sharp macro pictures can help you identify problems if you take the photo right. Consider it a weak microscope without the orientation difference. This goes for both the diyMod wiring and the LOD.

 Kaydes:

 In my diyMod 4G, I could hear a pretty clear difference between 22uF and 47uF. The bass is better with the 47, but it ultimately comes down to how much you like what you're hearing. You get more bass with the 47, but maybe you don't want all that bass. Your call.

 Also, paralleling Black Gates is supposed to make them really good. I can't say you'll hear the improvement, so do what you like. With large electrolytic caps, some like to bypass with small film caps for better higher frequency performance. That's another grey area, but something you can try. In general, films are faster than electrolytics, but Black Gates seem to be the exception depending on who you talk to. Do what sounds good to you._

 

jon: I think i'm going to have to go back and test again. I didnt find any difference between 22uf and 47uf, although I didnt really A/B them at all, I just havent noticed anything lacking with 22uf since I started using them most of the time because they are smaller. the science says they shouldnt sound any different either.

 22uf into a 50k pot, gives a corner frequency of 0.144686312hz with phase distortion up to 1.446863121hz 47uf gives 0.067725508hz and 0.67725508hz respectively. errrm my calc actually just gives zero as I guess the value is too low, but just move the decimal one over to the right. now I guess you can say that is more bass LOL, but both are so far below the frequencies produced in recorded media to be effectively the same. I regularly use as low as 2.2uf with film caps (usually with a parallel cap) with no lack of bass into 50k (Lisa III, pico) so I think perhaps there is some psycho-accoustics going on with your hearing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 all the same i'll knock up another 47uf LOD just to check.


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if you were to parallel caps in the lod, all youd do is solder your wire to one leg of the cap, solder the free leg to a leg of the second cap and then solder the remaining free leg to the signal pin on the dock._

 

Hi dazzer1975.
 What you have shown is Series capacitance (reduced capacitance), parallel capacitance is identical to bypass i.e. the sum of the two capacitors.
 This is the reverse effect you get with resistors.
See here for a better explanation.

 Cheers
 Lee


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## dazzer1975

Lee, many thanks for bringing that error to my and everyone else's attention, I just hope no-one has followed what I said without first checking if they wanted to parallel caps.

 Thanks for the save mate.

 p.s. thanks for the link too


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## qusp

^^ correct, I actually went to check that there wasnt some minute esoteric difference between parallel and bypass caps


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## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I think perhaps there is some psycho-accoustics going on with your hearing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 all the same i'll knock up another 47uf LOD just to check._

 

I've considered that, but the statement of more bass still technically stands. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I remember listening to my diyMod 4G + PIMETA, and when the 22 was installed, I just didn't like it. I didn't get quite the punch I wanted in my reference track, so I switched back and liked what I heard. I was listening with the 47s for who-remembers-how-long, and switching to the 22s made for an unenjoyable experience. I had to switch it immediately. That's my memory of my experience with the 22s and 47s. Remember that the transfer function of the first order high pass filter rolls off slowly, but I still don't think it actually accounts for the difference. Call it imagined.


----------



## TeraHz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TeraHz:
 I recommend using any of pins 15, 16, 29 and 30. _

 

YES! I was wrong to assume that the big metal thingy was ground 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - pins 29 and 30 did it!!!! Now I hear what I was expecting. Thanks!

 diy the planet!

 BTW how do you guys burn in the LOD's BG caps without destroying the ipod battery with discharges and charges every day?


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## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've considered that, but the statement of more bass still technically stands. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I remember listening to my diyMod 4G + PIMETA, and when the 22 was installed, I just didn't like it. I didn't get quite the punch I wanted in my reference track, so I switched back and liked what I heard. I was listening with the 47s for who-remembers-how-long, and switching to the 22s made for an unenjoyable experience. I had to switch it immediately. That's my memory of my experience with the 22s and 47s. Remember that the transfer function of the first order high pass filter rolls off slowly, but I still don't think it actually accounts for the difference. Call it imagined. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yes the statement is still correct 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and might actually make an audible difference if you are using a 50 ohm pot hehe. the numbers I included have both the corner and top of that intermodulation (the roll-off of which you speak) the top of the 22uf was/is 1.446863121hz, there should be no effect after that. but yeah I will check all the same, stranger things have happened.


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## no_eye_dear

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had to switch it immediately. That's my memory of my experience with the 22s and 47s. 
 Call it imagined. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It probably wasn't imagined Joneeboi.

 The 47's would have been nicely bedded in but the 22's were fresh......

 For me, I certainly can tell if a set of caps are burned in or not....

 I've used silmic's in my amps that have taken quite some time to open up the lower bass....


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## qusp

yeah BG do take a fair while to develop/set. so that could indeed be the answer. lord knows the other doesnt make sense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 jk


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## Kaydes

Hey, Im going to bother you people again quickly... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Im going to mod my iPod Video 30gb and 80gb, and want to stil be able to use the headphone plug on the top of the iPod. I also want to avoid desoldering the 4 capacitors. How important is it that I do indeed desolder them?


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## joneeboi

Don't desolder them.


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## Hayduke

I've decided I want to mod my 5th Gen Video now (I did my Mini awhile ago).

 Does anyone have advice about how to open it? Maybe a link?

 I've waited to do it because I'm worried about damaging it in the process. It's worn an invisible shield and been in an iSkin since I bought it, so it's still "pretty" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the Minis, I didn't care so much because they are already bought used and the end cap plastics are cheap and the only things that get damaged.

 So I want to make sure I can do it well the first try. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hmmm, maybe I should look for a cheap one on ebay to "practice" with hehe


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## TeraHz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hayduke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've decided I want to mod my 5th Gen Video now (I did my Mini awhile ago).

 Does anyone have advice about how to open it? Maybe a link?
 <snip>_

 

It is in the first post as well:
iPod 5th Generation (Video)


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## Kaydes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't desolder them._

 

SO just solder to the correct sides of the caps?


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## joneeboi

Kaydes:

 Yep. It'll make for a more solid connection for your wires. You have less chance of lifting pads and ruining your logic board.


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## Kaydes

Thank you!
 Im going to do my diymod on my iPod video tonight... and im going to have the capacitors internal. I have abolutely no knowledge of this electrical engineering and such. What way around do the capacitors go? Z cap, Positive terminal, negative terminal dock connector? or the other way around?


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## Ubijza

@ Kaydes

 Check out my huge post on page 130 of this thread


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## Kaydes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ubijza* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ Kaydes

 Check out my huge post on page 130 of this thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Thanks, But I have in detail read your post. I do not understand what you mean by "NB: +ve terminal of capacitor (longer leg) soldered to ipod output pin of the dock, -ve leg (striped side of capacitor) soldered to your wire."

 Please just tell me what way it goes around as stated in above question.
 Nice soldering for a second job


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## joneeboi

Electrolytic capacitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 Solder a wire straight from the iPod DAC to the longer leg, also called a lead (pronouned "leed"), on your electrolytic capacitor. Then, solder another wire from the shorter leg of your electrolytic capacitor to your output connector, usually a 3.5mm mini male plug. You can't really tell from the pictures, but the BlackGate NX Hi-Q series is non-polar, so it doesn't make a difference which leads you solder to and from. In general though, that's how you would connect electrolytic capacitors in series with an audio signal. Further, 

 wgr73's capped LOD





 ruZZ.il's capped LOD with custom pinout for his diyMod mini


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## Kaydes

THANK YOU! <3 

 Im about 90% completed. I will upload photos tomorrow


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## Kaydes

Just another quick one, I have finished it and am testing it (with one good foot of wire, to make things easier [please tell if this would greatly affect results]) and the sound from the right headphone is about 100% louder. Anyone know what the cause for this could be?


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## joneeboi

Check your wiring if you have a camera with macro or if you have a magnifying glass. Its easy to bridge your signals with such small components. Also check with different LODs, if you have any others, to see if it's your LOD or your diyMod that needs service.

 The foot of your wire shouldn't be a bother, but then again, I don't really know how you're using it.


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## Kaydes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check your wiring if you have a camera with macro or if you have a magnifying glass. Its easy to bridge your signals with such small components. Also check with different LODs, if you have any others, to see if it's your LOD or your diyMod that needs service.

 The foot of your wire shouldn't be a bother, but then again, I don't really know how you're using it._

 

I am not using a LOD, im having the capacitors internal/external (until CF card comes, the caps attached to the foot of wire runs out the headphone hole in the ipod case). So I assume that the left line somewhere has been bridged or something... Ill check it out tomorrow... Its almost 2am here, and I just played a game of soccer, so im pretty tired. Like I said before, ill document my whole experience, photos and all tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks Mate - your a true legend! everyone is really helpful! thanks guys!


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## joneeboi

Can't wait. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now go get some rest.


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## Kaydes

OooOoO... Just a quick solder-point check and the left line had become disconnected due to my low concentration the night before. I have fixed that, checked all other points, and now I am happy to say SHE LIVES! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Im going to make her look snazzy, then upload the pics, with my epic adventure


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## Kaydes

DiyMod Post:
 About two weeks ago, I first read this forum by chance, and I was excited by the idea, so I decided to buy myself some iPods and give the mod a go.
 $550 AUD later and 6 iPods coming in the mail I got my first two victims, iPod Video 80gb (WOA. Those puppies are fatter than my ****s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and 30gb. The 30awg came in the mail, and so did $65AUD worth of BlackGate’s. Yesterday I went to our local Dicksmiths and collected myself some suitable solder, a $40 Butane Soldering iron, and heat shrink.
 All the way on the bus home I made people very uneasy by playing with the little flame torch the soldering iron doubles as 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I got home, pulled the iPod apart tweaked farted and fiddled around for a bit, and had to go play a game of soccer, (Our team is so crap! Like 6-0. We got flogged!). After coming back I took the plunge.
 The photos will tell the story 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 [pictures] 
ImageShack© - Gallery
ImageShack© - Gallery
 And now I have it with the capacitors on the outside of the iPod, purely until I get the CF card I ordered in the mail. For some stupid reason the dock connector of the iPod is broken and It can’t connect to any computers. So I have to put music on other ipod the put the HD back in the iPod. At the moment I’m stuck with a crapload of CT’s. But eh, they will do to burn it in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks Guys, your all a great help! I am so glad I managed to pull this off so easily! I have NEVER soldiered before, and I found it to be really easy to do. My advice- Do it folks, it’s pretty piss-easy. Just don’t desolder the caps if you are not confident.
 Thanks Folks! I have a bit of a ... big weekend planned, and I got a few litres of liquid-joy to get through 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, so have a great one folks- And ill update yas on Monday!


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## joneeboi

It's really great to hear about your success, Kaydes, and thanks for sharing your pictures. I'm really glad to hear how things are picking up for you. That's really great to hear.


----------



## Kaydes

Thanks Mate!
 Ill post my updates once the CF card comes in the mail. I'm waiting on that, and two 4g iPods


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## Kaydes

Hey, A little help... The iPod I modded, I did not like the music on the HD, as it would not connect to the computer through the dock-connector (somehow it is broken) I decided to put the HD in my 80gb iPod video and transfer the songs across, then swap the HD's back again. However, When I put the HD in the (broken) iPod, it comes up with the restore screen. Can anyone come up with a solution to this?
 Also, how could I troubleshoot fixing the dock connector?


----------



## dumbears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kaydes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, A little help... The iPod I modded, I did not like the music on the HD, as it would not connect to the computer through the dock-connector (somehow it is broken) I decided to put the HD in my 80gb iPod video and transfer the songs across, then swap the HD's back again. However, When I put the HD in the (broken) iPod, it comes up with the restore screen. Can anyone come up with a solution to this?
 Also, how could I troubleshoot fixing the dock connector?_

 

Are you connecting a 80G HD to iPod 5G? You won't succeed, since iPod 5G only support 30G and 60G HD. You need a iPod 5.5G to work with a 80G HD.

 I'm very certain, since I've tried this scenario before. Hope it helps.


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## Ubijza

80gb Samsung HD works ok on my 5g iPod (formely) 30gb. (bought in Hong Kong too haha). Plays perfectly, transfer rate is about 1mb/sec. No crashes in 2 weeks since install.


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## Kaydes

I just successfully Diymodded my 80gb iPod Video (with 30gb HD instead) with internal Capacitors. If anyone shows interest I might upload pics


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kaydes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just successfully Diymodded my 80gb iPod Video (with 30gb HD instead) with internal Capacitors. If anyone shows interest I might upload pics _

 

Do it. DO IT!


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## Kaydes

ImageShack© - Gallery

 If anyone is interested in this mod, I might consider parting with it... I have spent quite a bit of money on eBay recently, and I have quite the bill stacking up


----------



## Kaydes

ImageShack© - Gallery

 If anyone is interested in this mod, I might consider parting with it... I have spent quite a bit of money on eBay recently, and I have quite the bill stacking up


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## Kaydes

This thread dried up like, one week ago =/


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## Bonthouse

This is crappy.. I tried to diymod an iPod Mini 2G and now the sound is all crushed etc.. what is happening?
 I used Cerafine 6.3vdc 47uF with the positive connected to the dock and the negative connected to the wire...

 EDIT: Nevermind this post. I removed all caps and connected the right pads and it's working


----------



## joneeboi

Glad to hear it, Bonthouse. Enjoy your new player. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kaydes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This thread dried up like, one week ago =/_

 

Yes, it tends to do that. I don't know, maybe people have read as much as they care to with this thread. I'm sure there'd be a small-sized explosion if we figured out the diyMods for the classic 6G, 7G, nano 4G, all the shuffles, iPhones 1G, 2G, 3G and 3GS. Unfortunately, we can only rely on the generosity of intrepid modders, and there isn't much we can do about that.


----------



## joshuatan

Hi guys erm, i just tried diying my 5.5gen ipod, kinda screw it up, so the right signal is missing, so there are 2 parts to solder right, one would be near the DAC chip, and 1 would be at the bottom with all the caps. I accidently pucked out the small pad near the DAC , that is suppose to be the right signal, is there anyway to get the right signal besides that part that i broken, and Pin 22 of the DAC? Thanks in advance for your help. Greatly appricated.


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## joneeboi

Take out your trusty DMM and see if the south pad of L2 has continuity with pin 3 on the dock. If not, you may have to solder directly to the dock which is never a fun exercise. Which pad did you rip?


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## joneeboi

OP updated.


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OP updated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dude 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My picture has pride of place on the guides page.. cool

 Good idea on the site Joneeboi, nicely broken down into handleable sections.


----------



## joshuatan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Take out your trusty DMM and see if the south pad of L2 has continuity with pin 3 on the dock. If not, you may have to solder directly to the dock which is never a fun exercise. Which pad did you rip?_

 

The top part near the DAC just above the DAC of the 5.5Gen, the Zcaps, pulled it and riped the right side of the pad... thanks for suggesting the DMM i will check if there is any signal running though the pads near the dac.

 Its super hard to solder on the 22pin of the dac, way small, and its in between the other pins as well. if i screw this up it might just kill the ipod because its also connected to the 3.5mm female jack as well. if it spoils, so does the 3.5mm.


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joshuatan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The top part near the DAC just above the DAC of the 5.5Gen, the Zcaps, pulled it and riped the right side of the pad... thanks for suggesting the DMM i will check if there is any signal running though the pads near the dac.

 Its super hard to solder on the 22pin of the dac, way small, and its in between the other pins as well. if i screw this up it might just kill the ipod because its also connected to the 3.5mm female jack as well. if it spoils, so does the 3.5mm._

 

Hi joshuatan, not sure if you mean this pad but it is possible to solder to the trace running to the pin 23?

 1st remove the Lefthand wire and clean up the solder and traces.

 You need to carefully scratch the laquer off the trace making sure not to scratch any other traces. A craft knife is perfect for this. Then you need to get some flux on there using a flux pen or tothpick etc.
 Pre-tin your soldering iron (wipe off excess) and quickly run it down the trace.
 Now re-flux the trace.
 If you are using stranded wire for your mod, take away as many strands as you need to get a thin enough wire to solder. Alternatively use thin 'wire wrap' wire as I have done in the past.
 Pre tin the wire and then coat it in a 'little' flux.
 Use blue tack or a clamp, crocodile clip etc to make sure the wire is in exactly the spot you want. Not too close to the solder joint, you need to get some epoxy on there afterwards. The wire should be lying parallel to the top of the DAC so you can pick up the longest part of the trace without bending the wire.
 Then dab your pre-tinned & wiped soldering tip onto the wire and and down onto the trace....hope it grabs.
 The trace may lift as it cools but dont worry as long as it doesn't break.
 Now check for continuity from pin 23 to the wire using your DMM.
 Now you need to re-attach the left wire.
 If you are successful then get some epoxy (best) or hot glue on there before you try and remove any clamps or blue tack etc
 It is possible, I did it


----------



## Bonthouse

Another completed diyMod Mini 2G with new battery and CF card
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Looks messy but note this is 0.5mm Mundorf SG
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 After that I went on to something easier:





 I love it when a plan comes together


----------



## Bleemv1

Hey guys,

 I've got an iPod 4g Photo. From what I can understand, applying this mod (without removing the 4 capacitors) will NOT disable the headphone jack and normal syncing and charging with the dock. Is this correct?

 From what I can see from the photos, are the caps being used Black Gate 6.3V 47uF NX series? 

 Please let me know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks guys, it looks awesome


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote:


 I've got an iPod 4g Photo. From what I can understand, applying this mod (without removing the 4 capacitors) will NOT disable the headphone jack and normal syncing and charging with the dock. Is this correct? 
 

That is correct

  Quote:


 From what I can see from the photos, are the caps being used Black Gate 6.3V 47uF NX series? 
 

For internal caps, yes those are the caps of choice


----------



## kostalex

Have anybody compared diyMod Mini to iMod (or diyMod) 5G / 5.5G?

 Stock Mini sounds slightly better to me comparing to stock 5.5G. I am curious whether it has better DAC or just better coupling caps.


----------



## Bonthouse

If only my little brother let my diyMod his 60GB 5G.. But perhaps I can make arrangements to get a 30GB iPod 5G soon


----------



## urbanshogun

i diymodded my mini 1G (i think) I still get audio from it, so I think it didn't not work, but bonthouse told me I can't use a regular LOD as it will destroy my amp. I have been searching for some sort of tutorial to make a lod for use with the diymod but I can't find anything.

 do I just connect one capacitor on the right channel and one on the left channel between the dock and the plug.


----------



## urbanshogun

i diymodded my mini 1G (i think) I still get audio from it, so I think it didn't not work, but bonthouse told me I can't use a regular LOD as it will destroy my amp. I have been searching for some sort of tutorial to make a lod for use with the diymod but I can't find anything.






 do I just connect one capacitor on the right channel and one on the left channel between the dock and the plug.


----------



## Bonthouse

This is how it should look like in the dock:

 Left pin > + lead of the cap > cap itself > - side of the cap > wire

 Same goes for the right pin.

 What do you mean with this?

  Quote:


 i diymodded my mini 1G (i think) I still get audio from it, so I think it didn't not work 
 

You mean it still works via headphone out? If so, that's normal.
 The purpose of the mod here is that it removes the junk from the DAC to the dock. Not to connect the DAC to the headphone out like in the 4G.


----------



## rahilb

i meant i didn't mess my logic board up.

 what caps are suggested? I can't find the black gate ones anywhere


----------



## Bonthouse

Well.. that's because they're out of production since ..2002(?)
 Go with Silmic II's or Cerafine's.

 Btw, why do you use 2 accounts? That's against the rules..


----------



## rahilb

i meant i didn't mess my logic board up.

 what caps are suggested? I can't find the black gate ones anywhere


----------



## qusp

what is this nonsense?? double posting in duplicate accounts. blackgates are available in a number of places. try partsconnexion.com also percyaudio.com


----------



## qusp

also; it should not damage your amp if you use it with a regular LOD; but it will ruin your headphones or speakers that are attached to it. also you might try only stripping a small amount of the wire and tinning it; what you have done in the pics is far too much; making a greater chance of bridging or shorting the connection. certainly made a little mess there, but you'll get the hang of it. try getting a set of helping hands with a magnifier


----------



## dhaninugraha

I just did the DIYmod to my 1G nano last saturday.

 And to my surprise, the clickwheel didn't function at all afterwards.

 I have double checked everything under a magnifying glass, nothing was shorted and/or accidentally removed.

 Clickwheel and LCD ribbon cables were also snugly connected. At first I thought it was the clickwheel ribbon cable, but a close-up examination showed that the traces on the ribbon cable were okay.

 If I connect the nano to my laptop, it would properly boot -- apple logo showing, followed by rockbox logo, then the usual "do not disconnect" text. My Computer also detected my nano; I can browse through my files in the nano w/ no probs at all.

 I wonder what could've caused this?

 Pictures will follow soon; I don't have a camera in hand ATM.

 Many thanks in advance for any insights provided.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dhaninugraha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just did the DIYmod to my 1G nano last saturday.

 And to my surprise, the clickwheel didn't function at all afterwards.

 I have double checked everything under a magnifying glass, nothing was shorted and/or accidentally removed.

 Clickwheel and LCD ribbon cables were also snugly connected. At first I thought it was the clickwheel ribbon cable, but a close-up examination showed that the traces on the ribbon cable were okay.

 If I connect the nano to my laptop, it would properly boot -- apple logo showing, followed by rockbox logo, then the usual "do not disconnect" text. My Computer also detected my nano; I can browse through my files in the nano w/ no probs at all.

 I wonder what could've caused this?

 Pictures will follow soon; I don't have a camera in hand ATM.

 Many thanks in advance for any insights provided._

 

Order a new ribbon cable. They are cheap and are usually the part that fails.


----------



## ruZZ.il

I once melted the mating connection for the ribbon cable. I accidentally touched it with the tip I guess. Its plastic melted over the contact pins, making contact very hard, and eventually impossible. I worked on it for a while, and cleaned it up, but it didn't last. old news though, I moved on to modding mini's which worked, and eventually got an ipod touch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 though I've been too busy studying lately to really enjoy it anyway ;(


----------



## kostalex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... I moved on to modding mini's which worked..._

 

Have you compared diyMod Mini to iMod (or diyMod) 5G / 5.5G? Which is better in terms of SQ?


----------



## joneeboi

The 5G/5.5G is the mostly popular diyMod. I don't know if that has to do with the capacity, form factor, or sound quality, but consider that the Apple Universal Dock also has the same chip as the 5G/5.5G. Why do you ask?


----------



## kostalex

Stock Mini sounds better to me than stock 5.5G. It is also more slim and light.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 5G/5.5G is the mostly popular diyMod. I don't know if that has to do with the capacity, form factor, or sound quality, but consider that the Apple Universal Dock also has the same chip as the 5G/5.5G. Why do you ask?_


----------



## jaudio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Take out your trusty DMM and see if the south pad of L2 has continuity with pin 3 on the dock. If not, you may have to solder directly to the dock which is never a fun exercise. Which pad did you rip?_

 

Which end of the L2 is south? the end nearest to the caps or the end farthest away


----------



## joneeboi

The south end is the one closest to the bottom of the iPod.


----------



## Jam_Master_J

I accidentally pulled the DAC connections out from an imod'ed Gen4 while changing the battery. Can someone advise me where to reconnect them? The pads didn't seem to rip off with it so I hope I can fix it.


----------



## joneeboi

See what you can gather from these resources:

Picasa Web Albums - joneeboi - 4G photo
The Collected diyMods - Jonathan P. Le


----------



## hur1214

Hello, I need your help.

 I have one ipod mini (2 gen) one and trying to do DIY mod. 
Capacitors
 This is the web site that I can get caps.
 but cannot find anything like blackgate 6.3v 47uF. Please choose one for me.
 Size of caps are not important to me...

 Help me to choose the cap. PLEASE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My set-up will be
 iPod mini -> LOD -> Little dot mkIII amp (Input Impedance: 50K ohms) -> Senn HD650
 or Grado sr125


----------



## FallenAngel

Just get a pair from PartsConnexion.com


----------



## hur1214

Thanks, FallenAngel.
 Found answer


----------



## joneeboi

In an effort to squash this myth that the diyMod doesn't allow you to use your headphones, I've done and am doing a few things.

 - aaronylee's blog, one of the most quoted of all perpetrators, has been commented enough to clarify this misunderstanding.
 - I've added yet another line in my signature regarding this matter
 - I replied to a visitor message in my public profile
 - I'll say it again right now

 The diyMods can be set up such that your headphones still work safely in your headphone jack. This isn't always the case, but it is often the case. Unless you know that your signal is being sent straight to the headphone jack without DC blocking capacitors, your diyMod likely isn't affected.

 Bottom line: Your headphones can work straight from the diyMod.


----------



## hur1214

C53, C54 -> Wire -> CAP -> Wire -> RCAs 
 Ground from ipod pin-out(LOD?) to RCAs

 I'm a soldering noob, so too hard to solder c69 c70........


----------



## joneeboi

I think it'd be harder trying to fit those caps and RCA jacks inside the iPod mini than soldering to C69+C70. If anything, you can ask someone to do the mod for you.


----------



## hur1214

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it'd be harder trying to fit those caps and RCA jacks inside the iPod mini than soldering to C69+C70. If anything, you can ask someone to do the mod for you._

 

I'm not going to put the cap and RCA inside. I might make my own wood case from ipod mini(not going to be a portable.) Will this work?


----------



## joneeboi

Yeah, it'll work if you run the wires right out of the bottom or the top of the case or something. You can drill a hole through the case for a more subtle solution. You can also just try to solder the wire.


----------



## hur1214

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, it'll work if you run the wires right out of the bottom or the top of the case or something. You can drill a hole through the case for a more subtle solution. You can also just try to solder the wire. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hahaha ya, i'm might just drill a hole on the back of ipod case. Thanks for helping me.. 

 BTW, is C71 ground? (if it is not, can you tell me which c# is ground.)


----------



## joneeboi

Do you have a DMM? Check to see what else has 0V relative the dock. You can solder the ground wire pretty much anywhere, so an easy place would be the dock itself.


----------



## willPS

hahahaha +D
 (post 2019)

 hey btw I have seen you reference, but not "rant", and I'm up to post #70. I think the rant may have just happened!!

 I'm doing a car mount for my diyMod, can anyone recommend a good switch from mouser that will fit in something only slightly bigger than a dock? I want the switch to cut off the USB power I will be adding, but haven't familiarized myself enough with small electro parts to know a good switch, or even what kind of switch* I will need. 

 *USB has 4 pins I will have active on my custom dock; I'm spoofing with data pins with voltage also to make it charge 3g+ nano's, iphones, touch et al. I want to cut all 4 pins/wires with one switch, or do I only need to cut 3? I found this switch, but I think it's only for two wires.

 Also, I'd like to cut my headunit out of the loop with dock straight to RCA to amp. Anyone know of a good car chip preamp with 3 outs (F/R/sub) for my amp so I can control volume? DIY preferred 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 otherwise I'll wait on that and just go to HU.


----------



## willPS

Alright guys, I've read this entire thread and realized a few things haha. First, all my junior varsity questions I was asking were eventually answered somehow in the thread, and uncannily they were right after I asked them. Second, my posts were current with what I was reading on page 60, but this thread got sooo serious after the mid 1800s! Third, you guys are awesome to have this thing going this long, and also to keep improving, and thanks for this amazing resource that really is a community effort (I didn't believe it at first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). So now I have these posts taking up real estate on a real gem of a thread; I hope I can add something worthwhile soon! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now my most longstanding question was #1937, signal distribution, thanks. And the others were slowly but surely answered. 

 So thanks I now get to the caps idea. Using this scenario with caps in the case a la gueri_fr, and larger caps in the dock.. 






Is it possible to take those jumper cables J1 and J2 and bring them to the blank 7 and 14 dock pins to make the caps in parallel? Then I'd have to run that signal to two other blank pins for audio (I only know of one other blank..) This way, my car and home docks would have extra capacitance, but this setup would also play in any normal dock for when I wasn't at the two home and car docks? Kinda makes it more useful to have around and not lose the ability to parallel, since we have learned series is bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... Is there a ground issue here? Certainly the distribution of the signal, but probably minor if it's a dead end in non-parallel mode.

 One question is, what happens if I put a non-mod ipod into the parallel dock? Maybe I should draw another dock... Basically only one leg of the cap would be connected in the dock, and the other to a blank pin... what would this do to audio for those ipods? I assume that's a massive issue as per post $1937, and these are going to be friends ipods, so we are hoping to avoid damage, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, Dumbears, I was excited to read your headphone cap mod attempt.. Any news?

 PS Guys I never thought the touch would get done... Congratulations!! what great work. Surprised to see it's regarded so highly in sound from the small sampling; didn't RWA officially say that the DAC weren't up to par, and that's why they stop at 5.5 gen??


----------



## dumbears

You shouldn't place your caps in series, 'cos it definitely reduces the capacitances.

 In parallel of 2 caps, C = C1 + C2. In series of 2 caps, C = 1 / ( 1/C1 + 1/C2).


----------



## willPS

Thankyou dumbears! Wow that's a rather nasty equation... At first glance it didn't look too bad, but in series that means a 47uf+220uf become a 38.7uf. It seems the sum can be no more than any single part, ouch!!

 Just found "allaboutcircuits.com" which will hopefully prevent me from further amposts.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just a _bit_ of reading.

 Edit: Found the elusive solid core wire in one of the posts about Cardas tonearm 33awg, eliminating that question/problem of not being able to find fine solid core. The clear teflon copper solid core 30awg is still elusive though, even though I've seen it in some select diyMod pics...

 Edit 2: Self help prevails! =D There it is again, post #1824, answers the pin questions I had, centering around the epiphany that wm8758 = wm8978.


----------



## forsakenrider

A picture of my modded 30gig 5g Video. I did this a long time ago but I just got the ivue case to show it of f
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 diyMOD for lyfe.


----------



## Jam_Master_J

No luck fixing that photo I posted on the last page. Even with my new iron and Panavise I just don't have the finesse to pull this off, I accidentally pushed one of the caps out of place. Anyone willing to take a look at it for me?


----------



## het.s

Just put new hard drive inside and bypassed original output stage.
 There are two capacitors and four resistor inside:

*iPod 5G modification drawing*

 It is convenient to have caps indside - you can use it with any dock, cable or whatever system you prefer. Components are placed under the board - there is place for caps in corners (cut rubber spacers) and for resistors between hard drive and back cover - remove white plastic frame around HD and little foam.

 You can make room for getting wires from front side of the board to back side by filing or cutting plastic front cover and gray frame which holds PCB.

 As for choice of caps - I didn't like behaviouur of caps with 6.3V specs, so I prefer more V - see drawing for specs.

 Without resistors there is possibility of hearing unpleasant noise when switching sources on your preamp and they are there also to protect iPod.

 For non-portable use I would add a buffer (it doesn't squeeze inside I'm afraid  tube cathode follower or solid state (discrete transistor stage of Nelson Pass B1 preamp comes to mind). Just to add power (and maybe loose a little gain).

 You can do this if you choose properly small parts, good luck!

 --
 Lukas
 het staeler audio

 [size=xx-small]Do not forget to listen to iPod disconnected from power source, with backlight off and preferably in lossless format  And EQ to OFF or flat.[/size]


----------



## qusp

I do not appreciate someone joining to use this place to advertise. one post and you are flogging your wares. there are people here that have already done similar to your 'original idea" what a lot of trouble to go to to mod an ipod. these DIYMODs are great for the intended purpose, but IMO there are better things to build for home use. 



 reported


----------



## het.s

Gusp,
 totally agree, there are better choices of source for home use. And because you say I wrote something not suitable for this forum, I edited my post. Thank you. And I didn't know there were other people who put hard drive and caps inside 5G iPod except for the trick with CF cards (but they have lower capacity than original drive).
 --
 Lukas
 het staeler audio

 [size=xx-small]Do not forget to listen to iPod disconnected from power source, with backlight off and preferably in lossless format  And EQ to OFF or flat.[/size]


----------



## kostalex

het.s,

 is it possible to fit 240 GB (which is thicker) and all the stuff you drawn in PDF?


----------



## zomi

@qusp

 do you have any links for things suggested for home use ?


----------



## het.s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_het.s,

 is it possible to fit 240 GB (which is thicker) and all the stuff you drawn in PDF?_

 

Thickness of my 120GB is 0.8cm, same is specs for 240GB MK2431GAH.

 Here is info from toshiba europe:

 Question:
 "I'd like to change hard drive in my iPod to some larger than 80GB I curently have (model MK8010GAH). Are there suitable 240GB or 160GB toshiba hard drives? Thank you very much."

 Reply:
 "Dear Mr. Francl,
 *
 your understanding is perfect - it is not possible to use the MK2431GAH*in an*iPod."

 And more detailed rerply about 240GB:
 "The MK2431GAH is normally not available for purchase for end customers because it is
 a bit different than most Harddrives are.* It was designed with a specific purpose in
 mind and due to that, the Block Size of the MK2431GAH is a physical 4KB and is not changeable.
 *
 This means that it is not formatable by the available OSs and is not meant to be used in a PC, Notebook or
 other Computer-type of device.
 *
 It is strictly for the Automobile Industry."

 Same guy from Toshiba suggested me 120GB MK1214GAH drive.
 --
 Lukas
 het staeler audio

 [size=xx-small]Do not forget to listen to iPod disconnected from power source, with backlight off and preferably in lossless format  And EQ to OFF or flat.[/size]


----------



## cis4smack

I'm confused, maybe you can answer my question. I have a iPod mini 2gen I am interested doing the iMod on. So that means I just need to solder the correct pins for my iPod mini and then I can use a LOD to connect to my amp...like the iBasso CB03 connector. Correct?


----------



## FallenAngel

Why would you recommend higher voltage caps than 6.3V? They only see 1.5V, 6.3V is already excessively large.

 Also, what is the purpose of that resistor divider? Most amps have a pot that does just that.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cis4smack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm confused, maybe you can answer my question. I have a iPod mini 2gen I am interested doing the iMod on. So that means I just need to solder the correct pins for my iPod mini and then I can use a LOD to connect to my amp...like the iBasso CB03 connector. Correct?_

 

As long as no DC is making it to your headphones, you're good. I don't know if the iBasso is AC-coupled, so it would be safer to put capacitors in series with the signal coming from your iPod mini. If your iBasso has DC-blocking capacitors, then you can use the CB03 connector.


----------



## cis4smack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As long as no DC is making it to your headphones, you're good. I don't know if the iBasso is AC-coupled, so it would be safer to put capacitors in series with the signal coming from your iPod mini. If your iBasso has DC-blocking capacitors, then you can use the CB03 connector._

 

Thanks joneeboi...is there any guides or photos of individuals who have a created a LOD with capacitors on them.


----------



## het.s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why would you recommend higher voltage caps than 6.3V? They only see 1.5V, 6.3V is already excessively large.

 Also, what is the purpose of that resistor divider? Most amps have a pot that does just that._

 

When using 6.3V Elna caps, the DC on the output was present for longer time, it drifted towards zero rather slowly then is usually seen.

 47K resistor prevents loud pops when switching sources on your preamp, value can be from 47K to 1Meg, while 100R is used in schematics for processors such as WM8731 or ADSP-BF523C. There are no resistor in recommended external components in WM8978 datasheet, but it doesn't mean that you don't use them. They are not in schematics maybe because it is expected that the DAC willl be followed by output stage (buffer, protection, etc.).
 You can go without 100R with no problem, maybe.
 --
 Lukas
 het staeler audio

 [size=xx-small]Do not forget to listen to iPod disconnected from power source, with backlight off and preferably in lossless format  And EQ to OFF or flat.[/size]


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *het.s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When using 6.3V Elna caps, the DC on the output was present for longer time, it drifted towards zero rather slowly then is usually seen.

 47K resistor prevents loud pops when switching sources on your preamp, value can be from 47K to 1Meg, while 100R is used in schematics for processors such as WM8731 or ADSP-BF523C. There are no resistor in recommended external components in WM8978 datasheet, but it doesn't mean that you don't use them. They are not in schematics maybe because it is expected that the DAC willl be followed by output stage (buffer, protection, etc.).
 You can go without 100R with no problem, maybe.
 --
 Lukas
 het staeler audio

 [size=xx-small]Do not forget to listen to iPod disconnected from power source, with backlight off and preferably in lossless format  And EQ to OFF or flat.[/size]_

 


 Uhm... that makes no sense. When something doesn't make sense, I try it and so I just sat down and tested my 3 docks (4.7uF/200V Sonicap Gen1 bypassed by 0.1uF Sonicap Gen2, 47uF/6.3V BlackGate NX and 4.7uF/250V VCap OIMP) and the 47uF/6.3V shows the fastest settling time.

 Yes, I understand the 47K bleeding resistor, not that it's necessary in most applications, but sure.

 I think the 100R inline prevents the DAC from misbehaving - I don't think it needs that; I've seen a diyMod drive 15 foot interconnects without nothing but a pair of caps, but again, sure, why not.

 On a side note, I get a new 5.5G 80gb iPod to diyMod. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ... and fix my 16gb flash Mini Gen2.


----------



## het.s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On a side note, I get a new 5.5G 80gb iPod to diyMod. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... and fix my 16gb flash Mini Gen2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congrats to next 5.5G iPod, is it brand new?

 I know blackgates are preferred by many, but I think Elnas are worth a try - I've got some unused RFS Silmic II 47uf 6.3V (5mm diameter) I can send to you if you'd like to try them.
 --
 Lukas


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *het.s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats to next 5.5G iPod, is it brand new?

 I know blackgates are preferred by many, but I think Elnas are worth a try - I've got some unused RFS Silmic II 47uf 6.3V (5mm diameter) I can send to you if you'd like to try them.
 --
 Lukas_

 

Apple refurbished with previous owner, I can never find these things anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the offer, but I like to stick to film caps whenever possible. I've got a few docks around in case.


----------



## thisbenjamin

Took me a couple of days to get fully caught up, but thank you joneeboi! very informative, thanks for helping spread the word 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm now enjoying the hell out of my wife's new diy imod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw - if anyone in the Seattle area needs pointers, feel free to PM


----------



## thisbenjamin

delete me please


----------



## joneeboi

You're welcome, thisbenjamin and cis4smack.

 Also, congrats, FallenAngel. That's one of the greatest iPods ever made IMO. Thinking of going 240GB?


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're welcome, thisbenjamin and cis4smack.

 Also, congrats, FallenAngel. That's one of the greatest iPods ever made IMO. Thinking of going 240GB?_

 

*GASP*! There's a 240GB drive for it?! You're an evil man!


----------



## M3NTAL

Sorry for the 'n00b' question - and I'm sure it is posted somewhere in here - but, on the 5/5.5g diymod, how does the wire connection between the C and L's create the "diymod"? Does the circuit get bypassed? It seems like it would end up at the same place anyways since that is how it works or no?

 Sorry and thanks in advance.


----------



## joneeboi

The signal is goes directly to the dock instead of going through the low quality coupling capacitors and inductors. It does ultimately end up at the dock which is where the original signal goes, but it's a different signal than the original because it has a DC component to it.

 Fallen: Where have you been, man? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


240GB Hard Drive for iPod Video (MK2431GAH): RapidRepair


----------



## hur1214

one noob question. How can I find +, - lead from film cap?


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hur1214* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_one noob question. How can I find +, - lead from film cap?_

 

Film caps are generally non-polar, there isn't a cathode or anode, install any way you like.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fallen: Where have you been, man? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


240GB Hard Drive for iPod Video (MK2431GAH): RapidRepair_

 

Busy with my balanced rig and only take my iPod out to play when I rollerblade. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I like the new 5.5G 80GB, it's enough for me for now, though the older 5G 30GB could use a new drive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's slimmer though, have to check to make sure it'll fit properly. Have something off the top of your head that fits?


----------



## Kaydes

A method I used for internal capacitors, Get a 80gb iPod video, and put the two 22uf blackgates (or if your a crafty bugger, the 47uf's unside it and put a slimmer 30gb HD instead of the 80gb one as it frees up enough room.

 I just finished my best diymod yet, An internal cap 5.5g iPod with 8gb cf card (only 8gb cos the f*&*ing prick on ebay ripped me off). Works beautiful.


----------



## FallenAngel

Yay, another successful diyMod - the 5.5G 80gb works like a charm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kaydes - shame on that rip off, good thing 32gb CFs aren't too expensive these days - why did you even bother with eBay? Most reputable computer stores (such as NewEgg) have these now and at the same prices as eBay.


----------



## joneeboi

hur1214:

 Film caps don't have polarity -- they're non-polar. You can use either side for positive and negative.

 Fallen:

 Glad to hear about your successful diyMod. They're getting to be a piece of cake by now, aren't they? Just don't make them in your sleep, even if you are that good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As for your 30GB iPod video, I wonder...

SAMSUNG 64GB SSD 1.8" LAPTOP DRIVE - NEW OEM - eBay (item 170373583765 end time Aug-25-09 15:44:11 PDT)


----------



## hur1214

Thanks FallenAngel and joneeboi. One more question. for the best SQ, Should I keep uf value low as possible? (ex. 50k amp will need mini. of 1 uf, so better to use 1uf film caps?) 

 and 220uf caps will not do anything to SQ with 50k amp? just oversized?


----------



## Kaydes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yay, another successful diyMod - the 5.5G 80gb works like a charm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kaydes - shame on that rip off, good thing 32gb CFs aren't too expensive these days - why did you even bother with eBay? Most reputable computer stores (such as NewEgg) have these now and at the same prices as eBay._

 

Because I live in australia, in a little town called 'Townsville' 
 DSE brand sh!thouse 1gb CF cards are about 50-70 dollars here. you cant even buy anything over 8gb in townsville.
 If anyone is willing to help me purchase a 32gb one and post it over, feel free to PM me =P


----------



## Kaydes

As for your 30GB iPod video, I wonder...

SAMSUNG 64GB SSD 1.8" LAPTOP DRIVE - NEW OEM - eBay (item 170373583765 end time Aug-25-09 15:44:11 PDT)[/QUOTE]

 You think it would be possible to throw that in an ipod?
 Dont they need dedicated power supply?


----------



## hur1214

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kaydes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for your 30GB iPod video, I wonder...

SAMSUNG 64GB SSD 1.8" LAPTOP DRIVE - NEW OEM - eBay (item 170373583765 end time Aug-25-09 15:44:11 PDT)

 You think it would be possible to throw that in an ipod?
 Dont they need dedicated power supply?_

 

Stock ipod hard-disk needs 3.3v. Samsung 1.8" SSD needs 3.3v, so I think you can just throw that in an ipod if connection(pins) are the same..


----------



## steven2992

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hur1214* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stock ipod hard-disk needs 3.3v. Samsung 1.8" SSD needs 3.3v, so I think you can just throw that in an ipod if connection(pins) are the same.._

 

Both use the standard zif ribbon cable connection so it should work.


----------



## FallenAngel

Kaydes - I've got an iPod Mini with 16GB CF which has been misbehaving lately - basically it doesn't want to charge battery or get properly recognized as a USB disk. I just trashed the iPod and you're welcome to grab the 16gb CF from me. PM me your address, I'll toss it in the mail for $10.


----------



## hur1214

Done! As you can see at the first picture, L7.... hummm, but it works.
 Thanks for helping me guys!


----------



## M3NTAL

Troubleshooting help:

 I cased my diyMod back up - it turns on and the hard drive seeks and everything. When I connect it to my PC via the newer slim cables, the screen lights up, but nothing happens. It does not charge and iTunes does not pop it up.

 When I connect it to a stand alone charger, it does charge.

 Is the slim cable to blame or is something possibly aloof inside?

 Thanks.


----------



## M3NTAL

stupid double post


----------



## joneeboi

Is the charger using Firewire or USB? I'd check the slim cable, but pictures of any soldering you did would be helpful.

 In other news, I destroyed my iPhone 2G when trying to open it to replace the broken digitizer. I made the mistake of buying just the digitizer instead of the entire display assembly, so now I have parts lying around. I checked if a diyModPhone would be possible, and the only method that seems reasonable would be to short the existing coupling capacitors. You're still left with the remarkably thin signal traces to the dock, but it's better than nothing, non? It wouldn't be easy to get your own wires from the caps to the dock, even tonearm wire. The amount of trouble you have to go to just to get to the dock isn't worth it. If you're going for the iPhone 2G diyMod, just short the caps and live with Apple's signal routing.


----------



## M3NTAL

Brought it to work today.

 Headphone out works just fine.
 I can measure voltage off the line out. Don't have any caps yet, so I can't hook it up to an amp yet.

 Everything seems functioning except sync'ing with a PC.


----------



## M3NTAL

I plugged it into a bose sounddock for s's & giggles and it is playing just fine. I'll take a photo of the internals when I take it back apart. I might move the wires a little because they make pressing the right arrow not very intuitive without a click.


----------



## joneeboi

Is that an Apple-branded USB cable you're using? I thought for some reason you built it yourself. If it is the Apple one, I'd see if you nicked anything inside before you closed it up. Post hi-res, macro photos if you can. Take photos of anything you did work on. Check if all your ribbon cables are connected properly.


----------



## M3NTAL

Yes, I am going back in and checking over everything. The only thing I nickered was the LCD cable slot. I thought the face flipped up, but the plastic broke off there, but the dang thing works fine there.

 Going to open it and macro it tonight.


----------



## M3NTAL

Quick question - I hooked it up to a LOD direct to a cheap amplifier to see if there would be any weird noises or what not.

 Without the caps between the two - if I did the wiring correct, would there/should there have been odd noises?


----------



## het.s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *M3NTAL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question - I hooked it up to a LOD direct to a cheap amplifier to see if there would be any weird noises or what not.

 Without the caps between the two - if I did the wiring correct, would there/should there have been odd noises?_

 

Check input traces inside your amplifier if it has caps in series with signal. If it does, you don't need to add caps at the output of the source. But you might have to check input of every other device before connecting an iPod.

 --
 Lukas
 het staeler audio


----------



## lottops

Who can help me about modify photo’s phoneout channel?
 Is there some pictures?
 Thanks a lot.


----------



## hur1214

Can you guys please tell me online-store has parts for DIY ipod dock?


----------



## funch

Qables.com*»*WHAT'S NEW

Redirecting you to Ridax programutveckling


----------



## FallenAngel

BAH! So I just installed the 240gb hard drive in my iPod 5.5G, old 80gb got busted. Well, RockBox doesn't support the sector size so I'm now modifying and recompiling it to support 4096 byte sectors instead of the original 1024. Damn Cygwin needs a lot of crap installed just to update a few lines of code.


----------



## M3NTAL

Does the original apple firmware support the full 240 gig?


----------



## FallenAngel

Yep, but I have a lot of FLAC.


----------



## FallenAngel

Yes! Finally, I was able to recompile Rockbox 3.3 and the bootloader to support 4096 byte sectors and the 240gb Rockbox iPod is done! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd hate for others to have to go through that process themselves just to use Rockbox on their 240gb drives, so here are the files and installation instructions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here are the new files, hosted on RapidShare
Bootloader 3.3
RockBox 3.3

 You will also need the iPod Patcher, download the correct one (Win32, Mac OS X or Linux)

 Installation of the new firmware and software is VERY simple.
 1) Connect iPod, get it recognized. You may need to put it into disk mode first.
 2) Download all the 3 file above and put them all into 1 folder.
 3) Install bootloader using with commandline "ipodpatcher.exe -a bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod" (Win32 instructions, look at "iPod Patcher" link for Linux - you should be smart enough to know what to do if you're using Linux; for the Mac users, drop to a shell and do the same as the Linux people)
 4) Unzip rockbox.zip to your iPod root folder

 All done.


----------



## Kaydes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes! Finally, I was able to recompile Rockbox 3.3 and the bootloader to support 4096 byte sectors and the 240gb Rockbox iPod is done! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Truly impressive!! Thank you so much for the CF card, im currently loading it with music : )
 Cheers mate! You are a legend!


----------



## joneeboi

That's pretty crazy, Fallen. Thanks for sharing those instructions. I was thinking of doing that with my girlfriend's diyMod 5.5G (yes, that's right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but I don't think she'll ever have 240GB of music. She still hasn't filled up her 60GB drive, so I'll put off my purchase of that drive for now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How does it work with the Apple firmware?


----------



## FallenAngel

I didn't have any issues with Apple firmware, but I didn't really use it either.


----------



## kostalex

Thank you, FallenAngel for sharing instructions and software.


----------



## M3NTAL

is rockbox compatible with ALAC yet?


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *M3NTAL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is rockbox compatible with ALAC yet?_

 

It apears so....

 Although it does say that it's not optimised... and only for 4G and later


----------



## Rico67

Does rockbok give a better sound than apple firmware , or it's just to use FLAC and other formats ?


----------



## Rico67

Does rockbok give a better sound than apple firmware , or it's just to use FLAC and other formats ?






opcorn

 sorry for the repetition...


----------



## jobokhi

This is an interesting discussion. thank you for sharing


----------



## FallenAngel

I hate iTunes, that's why I use RockBox - directory structure and Flac support.


----------



## Rico67

I have try Rockbox and flac.
 not noticed a big difference in files size bw ALAC and Flac..
 And more files are "compressed", less battery life.
 So for the instance, i haven't enough information to make a choice.
 Ok for the files structure, it's better with rockbox, but taged time is quite long and not always complet ( compare with apple firmware )
 Rockbox is great for adapted sound (balance, bas and treeble) with some headphones too.
 If someone can give more information to make a choice expeted the format files abilities.
 thank you.


----------



## Hayduke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BAH! So I just installed the 240gb hard drive in my iPod 5.5G, old 80gb got busted. Well, RockBox doesn't support the sector size so I'm now modifying and recompiling it to support 4096 byte sectors instead of the original 1024. Damn Cygwin needs a lot of crap installed just to update a few lines of code. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Aint it a B1tch!?!
 I had to recompile Rockbox so my Mini would work right with a CF card. Thanks for sharing your work. I might just pop one of those drives into my Video. Would be great for long road trips. I hardly use it now since I have a 32GB Mini 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 In regards to, "why Rockbox?"
 It's mostly a format issue. My music library is in FLAC. I briefly tried to convert it all to ALAC and use iTunes and the original iPod OS, but it was too much hassle. There are some things the iPod OS does better like battery management and waking from sleep, but that's about it. Once you get used to Rockbox's UI, I think it's easier then the iPod OS. Of course, all I want to do is browse to a folder and play the music. If you want to do other things with your music player, the Apple OS is probably better.

 The final reason that made me switch back from ALAC to FLAC was iTunes. I am a Windows user, and iTunes on Windows sucks. bad. real bad. really really bad. Hopefully my feelings are clear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 iTunes would completely peg out a CPU when downloading a podcast or something. A simple download? Are you kidding me? To me, that is unacceptable, so I ditched the ALACs and haven't looked back.

 The only feature/functionality I miss relates to podcasts. If I listened to a podcast on the iPod, then synced it to the PC and wanted to finish listening on the PC, it would pickup where I left off. That IS pretty slick, but not worth all the other annoyances. Rockbox > iPod OS


----------



## Rico67

Thank you for your answer.
 I 'm in the same felling concerning windows and Itunes...
 Not great integration for sure LOL, and the fact that it's 9.0 / 9.1 / etc too much maj for what ?


----------



## joneeboi

This is a really late announcement, but I'm going to be moving my webpage to my university-allotted web space. It's the smartest move for me now, so I'm going to be taking my sweet precious time to get that all moved over. I'll keep everyone posted.

 The website has been moved. Please see:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~jple/

 It's exactly the same as before. Woo! That was painless.


----------



## Barbarous

Joneeboi you might want to put that new link on your first post. Until I saw this I thought the old site had just disappeared. Glad to see it is still up-- I'm about to try modding some old iPods that need new batteries-- as long as I'm in there anyway.

 [Sorry, when I clicked the link the other night it took me to a "no such site" message. Tonight it works!]


----------



## joneeboi

It is in my first post.


----------



## indianbraker

is there anyone on head-fi that is able to perform this modification for others? i neither have the tools or skill to do such thing. If there is PM me im willing to pay 50 to 75 dollars plus the cost of materials. (i have a 4g ipod)


----------



## Matthew.C

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indianbraker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there anyone on head-fi that is able to perform this modification for others? i neither have the tools or skill to do such thing. If there is PM me im willing to pay 50 to 75 dollars plus the cost of materials. (i have a 4g ipod)_

 

same situation here. Also own a 4th generation ipod. Would someone kindly mod my ipod for me


----------



## kingblind

same here, I would love to have someone do it for me. please PM me


----------



## sheya

I have a DIYmod ipod G4 that I made by drilling a hole for an 1/8 stereo plug connector (connected to the pads on the board by the 8971 and to the plug via 2.2uf Vishay Roederstein 1813 film caps).

 The plug that I have isn't isolated from the case and connects the back panel to ground. Can this cause any problems? Should I install an isolated plug?

 It has been working for a while, but recently I've had problems with DC offset (blew up my Mini3, which luckily I built, so I can repair). I think that I overheated the caps when I soldered them in, as that is the only thing that is between the 1.5 volts of DC coming out of the DAC and the output, they have to be the problem. I have some 10uf Vishay/Roederstein 1813 caps on the way, hopefully they will work better.

 Would implementing a 100ohm resistor in series, and a 47kohm to ground as there is in one of the wolfson data sheets I looked at make the circuit more reliable? 

 Does anyone have a datasheet for the WM8975? I can't seem to find it.

 Thank you for your help. I tried searching this thread for answers before posting, but couldn't find anything concrete.

 Best,
 Aaron


----------



## lu-chen-chan

Hello , i am recieving ipod mini 1G soon and i want to DIYmod it , i am pretty shure that it is here somewhere , but do not have time to go through the whole 140 sites 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please can somebody give me advices how to do it? Or just instruct me on which pages it is mentioned?I would prefer to talk to someone who did it on it´s mini through PM.Thank you guys.


----------



## FallenAngel

First post, follow link.


----------



## kenabi

so, ipod 5.5g, fiios e5, and senn hd201's. problem is, after i bought the e5, i come to find out just how crap the signal output is from the ipod's headphone out (preaching to the choir here?)

 now, this lovely lineout style mod is interesting, but have any of you tried to clean up the existing output circuit any? i'd be much more interested in that, as i don't yet have the iflash/cf card to give me the space to try anything else, and honestly, i'd rather just use whats there if i can clean it up from it's muddy muddy signal


----------



## fenixdown110

I'm going to have to find the time to do this to my 4th gen.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kenabi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so, ipod 5.5g, fiios e5, and senn hd201's. problem is, after i bought the e5, i come to find out just how crap the signal output is from the ipod's headphone out (preaching to the choir here?)

 now, this lovely lineout style mod is interesting, but have any of you tried to clean up the existing output circuit any? i'd be much more interested in that, as i don't yet have the iflash/cf card to give me the space to try anything else, and honestly, i'd rather just use whats there if i can clean it up from it's muddy muddy signal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

errmm why not just use the line out of the ipod if you dont want to do this mod?? using the crappy headphone out with what is really a pretty average amp is always going to sound crap. least you could do is use an LOD, then you could just put the caps in the LOD simple as that. the E5 has volume, nothing stopping you. but then the bottleneck in the sound quality will be the fiio


----------



## mabus627

just wondering on this, it have been asked or already said, but does it change the appearance of the iPod?


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mabus627* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just wondering on this, it have been asked or already said, but does it change the appearance of the iPod?_

 

Have you READ the actual mod?


----------



## kenabi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_errmm why not just use the line out of the ipod if you dont want to do this mod?? using the crappy headphone out with what is really a pretty average amp is always going to sound crap. least you could do is use an LOD, then you could just put the caps in the LOD simple as that. the E5 has volume, nothing stopping you. but then the bottleneck in the sound quality will be the fiio_

 

with the bass boost off, the e5 is acoustically transparent on everything but the most sensitive headphones. me and my buddy played with my e5, a switchover system, and all my headphones along with all of his flavors of senns, it wasn't until we got into the really upper end of the model line that we even started to notice the slightest change.

 given that i will be using these with a set of 201's, it's not worth it to get excessive, but i also don't really want a bunch of added bulk, which is specifically why i went with the e5, it clips on someplace else out of the way, but in a place i can access the volume control.

 i just find it funny, i guess, that no one seems to have bothered to try and improve the existing circuit so the bulk isn't needed. welp, my nephew has a 5.5 logic board laying around, perhaps i'll go look at it some and see if i can't figure something out.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you READ the actual mod?_

 

Apparently not.


----------



## Fishline

I've been wondering, until I see one of jonseeboi's rants that the headphone out in all diymods (except 4G) work. That's great news for me. If I may ask further: Does the diymod (I have a 5G) change/improve the headphone out SQ at all? Without the mod, is the SQ from a lod better than from the headphone jack?

 I've swapped the 30gb hdd out for a 32gb cf, using a cheap adapter from ebay. Works just fine in both the original and rockbox FW. My goal is to do something like what gueri_fr did--- with caps inside the ipod, so any lod can work.


----------



## FallenAngel

Sigh... let me help with this:
*ALL HEADPHONE OUTPUTS WORK WITH ALL DIYMODS!*

 Why the hell would they not, you aren't touching the headphone output. If you WANT TO, you can, but that's not what the mod is. Hell, for all anybody care, you are welcome to drill holes in the iPods, have hard-wired freeflying external jacks, draw cartoons on them, do whatever pleases you.


----------



## Fishline

Er, cool down, pal. Did you actually read my questions? I just said that I read from joneseeboi's signature that the headphone out works, so I wasn't about to ask that again...


----------



## FallenAngel

And the answer is there... for about the hundredth time. The mod does not touch the headphone output.


----------



## Fishline

Maybe the experts do not realize the difference between "headphone out works" and "the mod does not touch the headphone out". I knew the headphone out works, but didn't realize the mod doesn't change the headphone out part. Thanks for making that explicit, and apologies for touching your nerve.

 BTW, if anyone can answer the lod vs. headphone out sq question, I'd appreciate that, too. Got to wonder, though, if headphone out is bad, what's the point of plugging uber expensive iems in there?


----------



## fenixdown110

Then use a LOD(bypass the internal amp) out to an amp to the IEM's. Those who do this mod go all the way, so no one would plug it into the headphone out. I don't see why you would even consider doing this mod and then not use it by plugging IEM's into the headphone out.


----------



## FallenAngel

The headphone output is ran directly off the internal amp inside the Wolfson CODEC (it's not a "DAC" exactly as it has other functions as well). The diyMod only aims to take the output directly from the Line Out pins of the CODEC and run them directly to the dock connector - effectively ignoring the internal output stage of the iPod.

 The internal headphone output of the CODEC is not "that bad" per se, but it's certainly nothing great. Most standalone amps will be better, and certainly not restricted to the low voltage, low current conditions within the iPod.

 As for "sound quality" of the headphone amp vs line out, I don't know for certain, but it would be most likely that the internal headphone amp runs directly off the line out as well. If you plan to use a separate amp to drive your headphones, it is better to run it off the line out, and not chained off the built-in headphone amp. "Chaining" amps is generally not a good idea - you are amplifying all the noise from the past stage, might as well use the cleanest, most "untouched" signal you can get; in this case, likely the line out.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then use a LOD(bypass the internal amp) out to an amp to the IEM's. Those who do this mod go all the way, so no one would plug it into the headphone out. I don't see why you would even consider doing this mod and then not use it by plugging IEM's into the headphone out._

 

Please don't do this, you do not want a 1V signal going to your IEMs, besides, without any volume control, it would be quite unusable (on top of frying your IEMs).


----------



## fenixdown110

You can get an in line volume control IEM to make it work, but you're right.


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fenixdown110* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can get an in line volume control IEM to make it work, but you're right._

 

I wouldn't go as far as "making it work", you'll be using a line-level signal to drive headphones in parallel with a HUGE resistor. Not pretty.


----------



## fenixdown110

I get your point. Discard what I said then.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fishline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been wondering, until I see one of jonseeboi's rants that the headphone out in all diymods (except 4G) work. That's great news for me. If I may ask further: Does the diymod (I have a 5G) change/improve the headphone out SQ at all? Without the mod, is the SQ from a lod better than from the headphone jack?

 </snip>_

 

Looks like I missed a lot today. Whatever happened to getting emails for subscribing to a thread?

 The headphone out works in all diyMods. Please note the difference between diyMod and iMod. In my signature, it says that the iMod 4G replaces the headphone out with the line out signal, not that the diyMod on the 4G disables the headphone out.

 The diyMod has no effect on the headphone out unless you choose to do so. Some members have replaced the headphone out's coupling capacitors with higher value SMD caps, so it's possible that it affects the SQ. Without the mod, most head-fi users say that the line out sounds better than the headphone jack. I believe this to be mostly a perceived difference because, reading from the datasheet, *the headphone out and line out signals are the same*. There is some digital attenuation happening with the headphone out (at least with the way Apple has implemented the Wolfson CODECs), so if you turn your headphone signal up all the way, it should sound just about the same as the line out. Couple that with the fact that there are larger capacitors on the headphone outputs, I think it's safe to say that the headphone out (turned up to max volume) is slightly better than the line out because of the high pass filter. Of course, there are practical implications with this type of use, eg. plugging in your headphones with max volume, so it's better to go with the line out. All in all, stick with the line out signal over the headphone out because they're about equivalent in sound quality, though the line out is much more practical for our uses.

 Also, the reason some of us answer so tersely regarding the issue of headphone outs is because it's a common misconception that constantly requires addressing. Just because one model of Red Wine Audio iMod's implementation, everyone is confused in thinking that the diyMod is configured the same. Think of it like this: the iMod 4G is one iteration of the diyMod 4G. Though it is the predecessor of all diyMods, the diyMod is an idea that has more applications and iterations than the iMod. You can do an "iMod" style diyMod, but they aren't the same. Doing a little bit of reading on the website and thread will prevent these kinds of situations.


----------



## dumbears

Sorry, joneeboi. I wonder if you'll republish the diymod contents on your website.

 Thanks!


----------



## dumbears

Joneeboi, thanks a lot!


----------



## joneeboi

Yep. It's all already there. 

The Collected diyMods - Jonathan P. Le


----------



## xoqiu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep. It's all already there. 

The Collected diyMods - Jonathan P. Le_

 

Hey ,joneeboi
 I'm sorry to tell you , this website is not available now.
 Could you please do something about this?
 Thank you very much!


----------



## joneeboi

That's funny. That's the second person to say it doesn't work. It works when I visit the site. Anyone else having problems?

 The files are hosted by my school's servers. I don't really have any control over what happens to them. Plus, the site works for me even after several refreshes.


----------



## xoqiu

oh really?
 I'm in the California right now , and my friend in Nebraska also can't visit this website.


----------



## Steph86

Hi Jon,

 just to let you know the site still doesn't work, the reason it probably loads for you is because it may still be saved in your browsers cache.

 Regards
 Steph


----------



## FallenAngel

Works for me : The Collected diyMods - Jonathan P. Le


----------



## funch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Works for me : The Collected diyMods - Jonathan P. Le_

 

It's a no-go for me.


----------



## M3NTAL

firefox = no go on the website.


----------



## joneeboi

Try now. I checked it on IE8, Firefox 3.6, Safari 4.04, Opera 10.10 and Chrome 4.0.249.89. I always use Chrome, so maybe since I'm pretty much the only one using it, it was working for me. I fixed what was keeping everything from opening, and it opened on all the browsers for me. Give it a shot now. (Also, I recommend installing Google Chrome. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Reima

It works for me now.
 RC


----------



## xoqiu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try now. I checked it on IE8, Firefox 3.6, Safari 4.04, Opera 10.10 and Chrome 4.0.249.89. I always use Chrome, so maybe since I'm pretty much the only one using it, it was working for me. I fixed what was keeping everything from opening, and it opened on all the browsers for me. Give it a shot now. (Also, I recommend installing Google Chrome. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)_

 

oh, it works!!
 thank you , joneeboi.
 And my browsers is Firefox


----------



## Steph86

Yup works for me now thanks Jon


----------



## funch

Ditto. Thanks.


----------



## Aiyo

I'm finally getting around to modding me 5Gen Video. I was wondering, looking at the tutorials for it, if I were to put the caps on the inside, where/what do i solder them to?

 would it be like this? also, i've heard that removing the caps/inductors doesn't do too much. should or should it not be removed?


----------



## Aiyo

any help?..


----------



## joneeboi

If you want to internalize the caps, use gueri_fr's method. No one else has come up with a method to do internal caps for the dock besides using the compact flash adapter and BlackGates.






 Don't take out the inductors and Z caps. Solder directly to their pads. They make for stronger connections.


----------



## Aiyo

Okay. Does removing the Zcaps actually make for better sound? Also I mean, could i get a diagram on how i wire the caps to the ipod? Like where do the positive/ negative leads on the caps hook up the wires?


----------



## joneeboi

Removing the Z caps won't improve the signal. The positive lead of the cap goes to the Wolfson, and the negative lead goes to the dock or audio jack. I don't have a diagram off-hand, but there are a few in this thread.


----------



## Questa

I want to use 3,5mm plugs as lineout interconnect, I know imod 4g does that, but is it possible with 5/5,5gen ipod?


----------



## suicidal_orange

You can send the signal wherever you can run a wire - connect the top connections to the connections on the 3.5mm plug. I think (not been inside an ipod for a while...) there are pins connecting the normal socket to the ribbon cable so you could attach to them, if not you'd need to find a replacement socket.

 Good luck!


----------



## Kaydes

I got a surplus of hardware wiring and capacitors and stuff for diymods laying about my closet, it anyone can be bothered shipping me their logicboard, or want any of my crap, I can either mod for internal caps for them of give me my leftovers pm me ay, Its just all sitting in my cupboard. (I solder internal caps on 5g/5.5g only)


----------



## nsx_23

Would this ALO adapter work with a 5G diymod?

ALO Audio






 Wouldn't mind something like this for hooking up my diymod to a desktop amp.


----------



## FallenAngel

Sure, just can't imagine wanting to pay that much for markup.


----------



## nsx_23

Anyone want to build me one?


----------



## het.s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want to internalize the caps, use gueri_fr's method. No one else has come up with a method to do internal caps for the dock besides using the compact flash adapter and BlackGates._

 

Don't agree, caps fit inside 5G, in my case together with 120GB drive. Some people put succesfully 240GB drive inside, that is quite a storage. Caps are lytics obviously (for size matters).

 If you are concerned with electrolytic caps in signal path, you can make two outputs - take signal prior to caps in attached drawing and connect it to some unused (firewire data) pins for use with external film caps. So you have signal with zero DC on standard pins 3 & 4 and signal with DC offset on other pins.

Here is 5 bucks iphone dock I'm sure you are aware of, but I can confirm it has quality pcb and connectors inside (female dock connector at the back is upside down, so maybe paths are even shorter &*better than inside apple original dock) nice silicone-like surface finish but has too light weight and cover must be cut to adopt other iPods than iphone. You can cleanly take out the pcb (there are two screws hidden under antislip base) and use it for nice diy dock or put it inside preamp or so. I desolder original minijack plug and hardwire cables or use different connectors.

 Quite funny, now this iPod video is becoming vintage.
 --
 L_u_k_a_s


----------



## juswyq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *het.s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't agree, caps fit inside 5G, in my case together with 120GB drive. Some people put succesfully 240GB drive inside, that is quite a storage. Caps are lytics obviously (for size matters).

 If you are concerned with electrolytic caps in signal path, you can make two outputs - take signal prior to caps in attached drawing and connect it to some unused (firewire data) pins for use with external film caps. So you have signal with zero DC on standard pins 3 & 4 and signal with DC offset on other pins.

Here is 5 bucks iphone dock I'm sure you are aware of, but I can confirm it has quality pcb and connectors inside (female dock connector at the back is upside down, so maybe paths are even shorter &*better than inside apple original dock) nice silicone-like surface finish but has too light weight and cover must be cut to adopt other iPods than iphone. You can cleanly take out the pcb (there are two screws hidden under antislip base) and use it for nice diy dock or put it inside preamp or so. I desolder original minijack plug and hardwire cables or use different connectors.

 Quite funny, now this iPod video is becoming vintage.
 --
 L_u_k_a_s_

 

Regarding the attached pic, which generation ipod is this mod for? It looks like a high-pass filter which only the 3G diymod uses. Does the 4G/5G require this high pass filter?

 Also, I want to mod a 3G Ipod. Can I mod it without the high pass filter?
 i.e. DAC LineOut -> Cap -> Dock pin out (without the resistors, like how the 4G/5G mods are traditionally done)

 Need an answer quite urgently.. thanks in advance >.<


----------



## het.s

These three components block DC (solo capacitor is OK for this), avoid pops when switching inputs on line stage, stabilize signal and are there for safety. It works for me & my next stage. High pass filter is kind of side effect (it's not needed) and it is circa 0.4Hz. For modding 3G - I think everything is here in this forum, or under "Guides" of this website . I do not agree with one thing - leaving old output stage in place. Yes, it is easier to solder wires and there is less risk of damaging pcb, but then old output stage could interact with new circuit.
 --
 L_u_k_a_s

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *juswyq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Regarding the attached pic, which generation ipod is this mod for? It looks like a high-pass filter which only the 3G diymod uses. Does the 4G/5G require this high pass filter?

 Also, I want to mod a 3G Ipod. Can I mod it without the high pass filter?
 i.e. DAC LineOut -> Cap -> Dock pin out (without the resistors, like how the 4G/5G mods are traditionally done)

 Need an answer quite urgently.. thanks in advance >.<_


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioCats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_






 finally got it done after a long long delay. 

 The mod was straight forward, though the desoldering of SMD parts was a little scary, as I don't have thermal-tweezers at home (and didn't want to wait two more days to use the thermal-tweezer at work). I ended up having to literally "burn" the parts off the board. 






 I guess I had too much a high hope on the ipods (supposedly, with a top of the line dock it will "rival $1000 CD players"). Well, the sound is more or less the same level as my modded CD changers, different but not really better. This is with the iPod and CD changer using similar output caps (Vitamin-Q bypassed with teflon). 
 Comparing to other portable/tranportable sources, the SQ performence of the modded iPod/dock is similar to a properly modded all-metal Discman PCDP (again, all with Vit-Q/teflon output), which is larger than the Ipod/Dock combo. Still pretty nice sound for such a tiny little box, though it is not exactly tiny anymore, after adding the dock box.

 I want to say thank-you to all contributers for posting the detailed info (here and on the web) and making this mod so do-able._

 

sorry for altering old post..but i was wondering..

 where did this guy connect his cable on the line out? the cables to line out suppose to be connected to pin L2 & L3 right? but it doesn't seem that way in the first picture..

 one more thing, do we have to remove the caps in L2, L3, & two caps with the Z on them?


----------



## tekdemon

So I'm thinking about doing this to a Mini 2G but I'd really rather not have to use some crazy hacked together looking external capacitors-anybody successfully manage to cram some caps inside somehow? Anybody sell a LOD cable with caps in it?

 Also, if I ran the line out without caps into an amp, would it still damage headphones running off the amp? I'm just not clear as to why this would end up damaging headphones if the amp is running the signal through a whole bunch of caps.


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *i_djoel2000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry for altering old post..but i was wondering..

 where did this guy connect his cable on the line out? the cables to line out suppose to be connected to pin L2 & L3 right? but it doesn't seem that way in the first picture..

 one more thing, do we have to remove the caps in L2, L3, & two caps with the Z on them?_

 

can somebody answer my question please?


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tekdemon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I'm thinking about doing this to a Mini 2G but I'd really rather not have to use some crazy hacked together looking external capacitors-anybody successfully manage to cram some caps inside somehow? Anybody sell a LOD cable with caps in it?

 Also, if I ran the line out without caps into an amp, would it still damage headphones running off the amp? I'm just not clear as to why this would end up damaging headphones if the amp is running the signal through a whole bunch of caps._

 

Mini 2G really does not have much room inside. Yes, there are lots of people selling iMod line out docks with caps inside, just post a WTB on the forum.

 Well, those caps are meant for blocking DC on the output.
 1) If your amplifier is DC-coupled, you may fry your amplifier, and then your headphones.
 2) If your amplifier is AC-coupled with output caps but no input caps, you may fry your amp, but headphones should be fine.
 3) If your amplifier is AC-coupled with input caps, you should have no problem.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *i_djoel2000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can somebody answer my question please? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Likely the reason you got no answer to your questions is because both are clearly answered in the guide linked to by joneeboi in the first post. In case you don't find it quickly enough, here is the final link http://www.ualberta.ca/~jple/diyMod/...ls/ipod5g.html


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the reason you got no answer to your questions is because both are clearly answered in the guide linked to by joneeboi in the first post. In case you don't find it quickly enough, here is the final link http://www.ualberta.ca/~jple/diyMod/...ls/ipod5g.html_

 

thanx for the link FallenAngel. everything 's clear now


----------



## Mad Max

Does the 6g ipods' output stage use opamps?


----------



## i_djoel2000

anyone has opinion about the sound difference between BG NX 2.2uF and elna silmic II used in the ipod LOD?

 do those two caps stand on the same league? or one is more superior than the other one?


----------



## i_djoel2000

deleted


----------



## cfcubed

Haven't been involved in DIYmod stuff since I did the 3G bit a while ago, but now am doing a 5G w/Apricorn's 240GB drive. 
 Think its been all been said before, but here's a few IMO / 2c bits:

 * wouldn't do internal caps myself any longer. If the point of this mod is best possible SQ out of iPod short of buying expen$ive digital-out dock, want my signal going through film caps. And possibility of changing those caps.

 * although I implemented the 3G mod "to spec", e.g. w/full pass filter parts (100R, 50k), seems most do not do this. It can always be implemented in the cap dock if desired. I'll likely give the 5G a go w/o the resistors 1st.

 * _I do not agree with one thing - leaving old output stage in place_ - Thought about this quite a bit myself prior to doing my 5G. Although removing parts (at least caps near DAC) may be ideal, it makes the mod more risky as Jon & others say, I'll not be removing parts. A bit out on a limb here, but don't think 2nd audio path can "add" or "remove" anything audible to signal now that it has a direct/shorted path to output. Pretty sure there are no "active" parts in the remaining path, e.g. no "output stage", likely just some passives to fully implement the DAC output spec.

 * along w/the best possible SQ thing, seems to me lossless files are a prerequisite for this, and one would want lots of GBs for that. E.g. a decent lib could demand 80GB or more. At least w/o having to sync new sets of files pretty often.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cfcubed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haven't been involved in DIYmod stuff since I did the 3G bit a while ago, but now am doing a 5G w/Apricorn's 240GB drive. 
 Think its been all been said before, but here's a few IMO / 2c bits:

 * wouldn't do internal caps myself any longer. If the point of this mod is best possible SQ out of iPod short of buying expen$ive digital-out dock, want my signal going through film caps. And possibility of changing those caps.

 * although I implemented the 3G mod "to spec", e.g. w/full pass filter parts (100R, 50k), seems most do not do this. It can always be implemented in the cap dock if desired. I'll likely give the 5G a go w/o the resistors 1st.

 * I do not agree with one thing - leaving old output stage in place - Thought about this quite a bit myself prior to doing my 5G. Although removing parts (at least caps near DAC) may be ideal, it makes the mod more risky as Jon & others say, I'll not be removing parts. A bit out on a limb here, but don't think 2nd audio path can "add" or "remove" anything audible to signal now that it has a direct/shorted path to output. Pretty sure there are no "active" parts in the remaining path, e.g. no "output stage", likely just some passives to fully implement the DAC output spec.

 * along w/the best possible SQ thing, seems to me lossless files are a prerequisite for this, and one would want lots of GBs for that. E.g. a decent lib could demand 80GB or more. At least w/o having to sync new sets of files pretty often._

 

Hi,

 I also recently completed the 250gig diymod from apricorn, but I'm having a few problems. I will list them in point form, if anyone has had any of the same problems and found a solution I would be very grateful for help:

 1 - The click wheel does not sit back into it's original position (the left click is recessed and does not respond well)

 2 - When playing flac files it often just skips to the next track half way through, but if I repeat the track from the beginning it runs fine. Its only when playing playing an album continuously. It's as if it skips only when the hard drive spins to load the next part of the track in memory.

 3 - the battery life with the new 850mAh battery provided by apricorn is very bad, from a 100% charge, it drops to 70% within 5 mins, and drains very fast afterwards. Looking at around 3-4 hours of playtime. Even with the a usb cable plugged into the ipod, the battery still drains faster during playback than it can charge and eventually turns off.

 4 - I also built a line out dock cable with elnor caps, and when i plug it into the amp and ipod, I only hear sound from the right earphone, but then when i pull it out slightly (half in half out of headphone jack on amp) I get sound from both earphones.

 Any help would be really appreciated,
 Thanks Steph


----------



## cfcubed

My extra 2c, note I've not closed up & used my DIYmod 5G 240MB yet:
 1 - click wheel not sitting right - Clearly something physical inside you need to correct. I can see it'd be a bit of a challenge to re-fit things, esp. the drive, & close 'er up myself. I did take care to route wire as close to PCB as possible (around chips & "larger" SMD caps) & did not overlap them.
 2 - won't be using flac, but I'll be seeing how large apple lossless files perform. 
 3 - am a bit concerned about the battery myself & will have to see. Even though Apricorn quotes nice numbers for their batts, if they are cheap ones they may not perform up to specs. 
 4 - another physical/electrical thing for you to debug. I'll double check my DIYmod wires/connection prior to box up (incl continuity from pads near DAC through lineout dock L&R). And probably tack the wires down w/a spec of adhesive.

 Good luck & I'll try to post back w/experiences after boxup & use for a few days.


----------



## cfcubed

Just an update that mine came together perfectly & is working well. Only visible diff that it was done is that I used a red permanent marker to color the white/gray plastic trim piece in diymod's dock connector (to distinquish it from my other 5G ipod).

 Battery life seems fine so far but haven't done a full charge -> discharge test. No problems w/playback of apple lossless files incl Rush's 20-min 2112.

 Edit: BTW I used ipod HD's original flat connector cable instead of one supplied on apricorn drive.. I'd problems seating/bending the "new" cable that caused restore/init to fail. So just used one from orig drive & things worked right off the bat. Perhaps because it was formed/bent better(?)


----------



## Steph86

I'm still having problems with my mod, The battery drains very quickly and I have also noticed that it does not charge via usb, but does when plugged into mains power. When charging via usb, the ipod recognises it and shows the charging symbol but does not actually charge the battery. I done some further research and stumbled across this thread, I believe I have the same problem, looks like the only solution If I want to continue to use rockbox is to buy a new logic board.

dreamlayers: Video iPod won't charge via USB, won't turn off from Rockbox


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *het.s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't agree, caps fit inside 5G, in my case together with 120GB drive. Some people put succesfully 240GB drive inside, that is quite a storage. Caps are lytics obviously (for size matters).<snip>
 L_u_k_a_s_

 

If you'd like to share some pictures, that would be very nice of you. I haven't seen it done yet, but if you have pictures, please share with the rest of us so we don't all have to get CF cards. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tekdemon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, if I ran the line out without caps into an amp, would it still damage headphones running off the amp? I'm just not clear as to why this would end up damaging headphones if the amp is running the signal through a whole bunch of caps._

 

Not every amp has AC-coupling or DC-blocking caps in them. Take the popular AMB Mini^3. It is fully DC coupled, meaning that having DC in your input signal will amplify the DC into your headphones. There are a bunch of caps in the circuit, but they all serve different purposes from DC-blocking. You will most certainly fry your headphones going straight from the diyMod into a DC-coupled amplifier.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still having problems with my mod, The battery drains very quickly and I have also noticed that it does not charge via usb, but does when plugged into mains power. When charging via usb, the ipod recognises it and shows the charging symbol but does not actually charge the battery. I done some further research and stumbled across this thread, I believe I have the same problem, looks like the only solution If I want to continue to use rockbox is to buy a new logic board._

 

Double check the soldering. Sounds like a short somewhere, but I really couldn't tell you where. Use a good magnifying glass and a good lamp. Blow pressurized air onto the PCB if you have to (just avoid destroying stuff).


----------



## het.s

joneeboi, I was hesitant to open my iPod only for making pictures, but you asked for it so here they are. There is one capacitor in series, one resistor in series and second resistor shunt to ground (per channel).
 --
 L_u_k_a_s

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you'd like to share some pictures, that would be very nice of you. I haven't seen it done yet, but if you have pictures, please share with the rest of us so we don't all have to get CF cards. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_


----------



## joneeboi

That's very clean work, het.s! I like the use of heatshrink and tape. Very secure and nice. There is hope after all. I also like how you taped over the capacity on the back plate.


----------



## het.s

thanks, now that you don't have to squeeze the caps inside LOD connector, you can put there (for portable use) opamp buffer circuit and use 3v or 3.3V directly from iPod (not tested).

 anyone to design such circuit? maybe only one dual opamp and passive components, or one opamp for buffer and one opamp for virtual ground?

 btw it's not so clean, I'd call it surgery, not modding. you have to cut and file off (white) front panel and the grey cage. just little to make room for wires to pass from the front to rear of pcb and then back.
 --
 L_u_k_a_s

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's very clean work, het.s! I like the use of heatshrink and tape. Very secure and nice. There is hope after all. I also like how you taped over the capacity on the back plate._


----------



## joneeboi

We've talked about it a little in the thread and around the forum, but generally, I think it isn't worthwhile adding a buffer circuit into the LOD. The volume pot would be hard to pull off. The rest of the circuit would be fairly easy to implement, but getting a volume slider to work would be the toughest part. I think the output jack would have to hang outside of the LOD, but other than that, it shouldn't be impossible. You wouldn't really be getting a hi-fi signal per se, but it would be insanely portable. Battery life would be a big issue though. You could get a larger back plate and larger battery to make up for the extra current draw.


----------



## het.s

My previous post was unclear: I ment to put buffer inside LOD which is then connected to standalone portabe amplifier. So it's more kind of line-level buffer than headphone buffer. I don't think that current drain is big issue, maybe you lower your mileage to 50 %.

 I need amplification (factor of 2 may be sufficient) with modified iPod and Grado SR80 'phones (as well as with stock iPod). Of course the other way is that you can make an amplifier with buffer at the input.
 --
 L_u_k_a_s


----------



## neosoul

Het.S or anyone else who can comment, have you found a way by chance to fit caps in the mini also.


----------



## bipton

I just wanted to say thanks for the DIY info, I have successfully modded my Archos 5 IMT, which by itself, has very pathetic sq. Now it sounds incredible!!


----------



## het.s

no experience with mini. caps are tight fit in big iPod video. you might try some with smaller capacity (and physically smaller), if bass rollof is not a problem, let's say 0.47uF.
 --
 L_u_k_a_s

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *marvelousmarvyd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Het.S or anyone else who can comment, have you found a way by chance to fit caps in the mini also._


----------



## FallenAngel

0.47uF if you have 100k Ohm input impedance


----------



## Halfie

Hi everyone, I'm new to all of this diyMod stuff, but I recently purchased a second hand, pre modded 5.5g off of eBay, which came with its own LOD, using Elna Silmic 4.7uf caps. I'm guessing the previous owner did it to fit the caps inside a slim connector. Currently using triple.fi's.

 I'm finding that there is very little bass, and using my recently acquired iBasso T3, it doesn't get up to the sound levels that I would like (beyond halfway on the volume dial, it starts to get a large amount of hiss at any gain level. currently have it on +3db).

 I'm not very good with all the capacitance, calculations and such, but I am a dab hand with a soldering iron. If I were to make a new LOD with some 47uf Blackgate capacitors, as per the original LOD for sale, would it make a difference to the sound level and bass?


----------



## FallenAngel

4.7uF is more than enough, perhaps you don't like the Elna caps though.


----------



## qusp

actually angel, if the t3 has a 10k pot there would be some bass rolloff starting around 33hz, but doesnt explain the grain, noise etc. perhaps there is some other issue, suppose it could be intermodulation distortion, though unlikely and sure doesnt explain the volume, though the t3 might as its really not a powerful amp at all


----------



## qusp

with some of the new 0603 and 0805 size PPS film SMD caps, there is no reason not to put a few in parallel to get the right capacitance inside the ipod. better quality caps than blackgate electros too IMO


----------



## Halfie

Would you suggest that I request a return on the T3, and go for something a little more powerful, maybe? A headsix or even an ALO Rx?


----------



## qusp

you still havent said what headphones you are driving with it?? it does sound to me as if you are dealing with a number of issues and not just one, because hiss implies perhaps you are using sensitive earphones, in which case the T3 should be enough power wise, if not then something else is up with the MOD or LOD; but if you were expecting to have much more power than the ipod headphone out just because its an amp you are mistaken in the case of the t3, the LOD may not be grounded properly either, any number of things that are off topic for here and I dont really want to take it further off topic.

 a hint since you seem to be a noob here, either fill out your profile or signature with at least your main gear, or when asking a question like this or making a post like your first one, telling us what headphones you are using is probably the most important thing you can do, it tells us how efficient they are, what sound sig they are and what you might like etc etc. without it your question above is impossible for me to answer. a better amp is always nice, but more power may not be what you need at all, there may be another problem entirely


----------



## Halfie

My apologies. I've since filled out my profile a bit more. In my original post, I edited it a few minutes after I posted, saying that I was using triple.fi's with this setup. You might have missed it? 

 Your response about the LOD potentially being a problem had me interested though, so I tested out the T3 using the headphone jack, and have since found that it is perfectly fine all the way up the volume dial, so I'm thinking that there MUST be a problem with the LOD after all. I guess it's time to open it up and take a squidge at the lines.

 Edit 1: I just tore apart the LOD cable: I don't see ANYTHING resembling a capacitor anywhere. From the looks of it, there's a 1kOhm +5% resistor, and that's it. I'm guessing this is the problem.

 Edit 2: The LOD cable works fine inside a non modded ipod 5.5g and Nano. I've also opened up the diyMOD ipod, seems in order.


----------



## suicidal_orange

Oh dear!

 Is there a chance there are caps in the plug on the other end of the LOD? If not you've likely done damage to your amp and/or TF10. More volume would amplify the DC offset and make any further driver movement in that direction impossible, which would sound terrible. The resistor is probably for ipod toucth (and similar) compatibility.

 I'd not worry about opening the DIYmod if the signal coming out was clear at low volume, but if the seller lied about having caps in the LOD maybe he lied about the mod too? I hope not


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Halfie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My apologies. I've since filled out my profile a bit more. In my original post, I edited it a few minutes after I posted, saying that I was using triple.fi's with this setup. You might have missed it?_

 

yeah I never saw anything about the TF10, I must've loaded or replied to the post before you had done that. nothing to apologize about, it just makes it difficult to help you

  Quote:


 Your response about the LOD potentially being a problem had me interested though, so I tested out the T3 using the headphone jack, and have since found that it is perfectly fine all the way up the volume dial, so I'm thinking that there MUST be a problem with the LOD after all. I guess it's time to open it up and take a squidge at the lines. 
 

well actually thats not necessarily the case in such situations, as the HP out comes from the same dac, but if there was a problem with the mod wiring or something, this could be just bypassed by using the HP out. 

 but given your findings, for sure we seem to have found you issue, man I would not be impressed at all and if it was sold to you as an IMOD LOD with a modified ipod and there are no caps inside the ipod then I think you should out this person, as that could totally and may still have damaged your TF10 badly, the amp is unlikely to be damaged, but it doesnt take heaps of DC offset to kill such sensitive IEMs

  Quote:


 Edit 1: I just tore apart the LOD cable: I don't see ANYTHING resembling a capacitor anywhere. From the looks of it, there's a 1kOhm +5% resistor, and that's it. I'm guessing this is the problem.

 Edit 2: The LOD cable works fine inside a non modded ipod 5.5g and Nano. I've also opened up the diyMOD ipod, seems in order. 
 

have you looked in the mini? dont know what the 1k resistor is for, because a 68k resistor is needed for iphone/touch operation. this could have been a damping resistor to protect the dac when plugging and unplugging the LOD and I suppose its possible he was using an amp with input caps, or he didnt know what he was doing at all.


 so I would definitely cease using that DIYMOD with any amps or headphones until you have found out more info or built yourself an LOD with caps inline


----------



## Halfie

The person that built the diyMod is a very reputable member of the forum, and I'd prefer not to out him/her without understanding the full story. On my end, I literally just bid on an eBay auction for a diyMod 5.5g 80gb, which came with a LOD and the description "contains 4.7uf Elna Silmic caps". 

 The seller did not mod it himself, but sent away to someone on head-fi to get it modified, and got a LOD for it at the same time. From what I've seen in this thread itself, the elna caps would be incredibly hard to miss, since they're quite large. I've checked the connector, as well as the mini plug, and nothing on either end. The wire is empty, as well. I've emailed the original seller asking for an explanation, and he's emailing the modder to find out what the deal is. 

 Luckily, there seems to be no damage to the amp and my headphones, I've listened to my suite of test music, and there are no issues, and I'm very happy with the T3 as well, even just through the headphone jack. I never ran the amp at max volume for more than about 2-4 seconds before dialling it back to halfway, and even at that max it wasn't very loud at all (maybe 5% louder than the mid volume setting. I'd put it at about 1/4 volume on the ipod)... I think I lucked out. To be safe, are there any sure signs that there may be damage to the IEM's?


----------



## reedlaw

I just attempted the diyMod on my 1st gen nano. My version was a little different than the ones in the guide. I removed L7, L8, and what appeared to be C69 and C70, although they had no markings. In the guide, I read to attach the two DAC wires to the left side of L7 and L8. Mine has these two inductors vertically oriented. I used a multimeter and found the connections from L7 to C69 and L8 to C70. But with my DAC wires soldered to the top I get no line out from the dock. I don't have a LOD yet, but I've been probing around to test things.

 As you can see in the picture, L7's bottom pad came off. I am still confused by this picture in the guide because it says to remove the inductors and caps, yet the wires are soldered _before_ the inductors and caps which seems to short the path to the dock. Can anyone tell me where the DAC wires should be soldered in my picture?


----------



## joneeboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Halfie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<snip>To be safe, are there any sure signs that there may be damage to the IEM's?_

 

Visual inspection of the tiny little windings might do the trick, but if you don't really hear anything, I wouldn't worry about it. The damage comes when the DC heats up the wire surrounding the driver's magnet. If you didn't put it in for too long, it probably isn't a problem. If you can't hear the difference, then likely nothing has changed. Keep in mind that you can imagine the change in sound if you psyche yourself out enough.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *reedlaw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone tell me where the DAC wires should be soldered in my picture?_

 

Solder anywhere you can get a solid connection to the dock pin. The C69 pads seem tiny, so look around for an identical connection. Sometimes those DZP chips have audio connections (though I still don't know what they do).


----------



## pulsar08

I would like to mod an ipod touch 1g (or 2g/3g if possible) as seen on http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f43/fs...-415-a-424968/ I've searched high and low for any info on this but have come up totally empty and the OP is banned. Can anyone help me out?

 **EDIT**

 Found the actual explanation here http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/app...ml#post5643577 Now to get up the courage to try this and pick out some film caps. I'm thinking about vitamin-q 96p's or russian teflon k72's cuz they're pretty cheap. 

 I'm not totally sure but with this mod I don't need caps in a film dock if I put input caps in the amp (pimeta v2), right?


----------



## Halfie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joneeboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you can't hear the difference, then likely nothing has changed. Keep in mind that you can imagine the change in sound if you psyche yourself out enough._

 

I haven't heard any negative effects, and I can definitely say that even without much burn in, I'm very impressed by the difference an amp can make. Now it has me wondering about these more expensive ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am in contact with the original head-fi'er who did the diyMod through the eBay seller, and he has admitted a mistake was made, and that he will be rectifying it as soon as possible, which is great news!


----------



## DJSkyline701

Hi , im new here. Im getting ready to do my first diyMOD and i have a few questions...
   
  1) i have some nichilon muse and elna caps laying around, both 6.3v 47uf, which is better?
   
  2) how does the farad and voltage rating affect performance?would higher be better
   
  3) can i use different caps beside electrolytic capacitors?
   
  4) why are oil caps so much better for audio than the other
   
  5) would connecting the caps in parallel do anything for perfomance?
   
  6) What caps would you guys reccomend for an internal diymod and an external diymod


----------



## DJSkyline701

please, can anyone help me?


----------



## joneeboi

Quote: 





djskyline701 said:


> Hi , im new here. Im getting ready to do my first diyMOD and i have a few questions...
> 
> 1) i have some nichilon muse and elna caps laying around, both 6.3v 47uf, which is better?
> 
> ...


 

 1) Depends on your taste, your entire system.
  2) The "farads", rather, the capacitance affects the corner frequency of the high pass filter. Google "high pass filter."
  3) Sure can.
  4) I think it has something to do with the high frequency response. Electrolytics are bassy, but don't handle the highs very well. Films and oils are quicker, so it has better high response. Of course, this is all subjective and totally depends on your system and sound preferences.
  5) Sure. It's a common practice around here, using a large cap, eg. electrolytic, for the low frequency response, and bypassing with a film cap for better highs. It's up to you if it's a better sound.
  6) For internal, a lot of 6.3V 'lytics will work, but depending on the input impedance of your amplifier, you can use smaller caps. For external diyMods, you can use almost anything you want. The limit is your budget. There are too many to choose from.


----------



## Dannis

solved


----------



## DJSkyline701

Quote: 





			
				joneeboi said:
			
		

> 1) Depends on your taste, your entire system.
> 2) The "farads", rather, the capacitance affects the corner frequency of the high pass filter. Google "high pass filter."
> 3) Sure can.
> 4) I think it has something to do with the high frequency response. Electrolytics are bassy, but don't handle the highs very well. Films and oils are quicker, so it has better high response. Of course, this is all subjective and totally depends on your system and sound preferences.
> ...


 
  Thank Youuu very much!


----------



## Halfie

Hey there wiring experts, after 2 days frustration with a soldering iron, and about 4 wasted ipod dock connectors, I've finally made a decent ipod LOD for the diyMod that has 2 sockets for replacing caps. I purchased about 15 pairs between the ranges of 6.3v to 10v, ranging from 4.7uf to 330uf in 3 different brands to see what I enjoy the most.
   
  I'm intending to make another one of much MUCH better quality than this (hopefully in a low profile connector, with a 2" cable instead of 8", with a capsule for the capacitors, or just hard wire the ones that I prefer), and I have a question:
   
  Is there ANYWHERE else on the LOD besides pin 2 to wire up the ground? Looking at the pinouts.ru diagram, I could potentially use pin 1, but what about 11, 15, 16, 29 or 30? Having them all in that small space makes it a pain in the rear admiral to put the pins in nicely.


----------



## Reima

Quote: 





halfie said:


> Hey there wiring experts, after 2 days frustration with a soldering iron, and about 4 wasted ipod dock connectors, I've finally made a decent ipod LOD for the diyMod that has 2 sockets for replacing caps. I purchased about 15 pairs between the ranges of 6.3v to 10v, ranging from 4.7uf to 330uf in 3 different brands to see what I enjoy the most.
> 
> I'm intending to make another one of much MUCH better quality than this (hopefully in a low profile connector, with a 2" cable instead of 8", with a capsule for the capacitors, or just hard wire the ones that I prefer), and I have a question:
> 
> Is there ANYWHERE else on the LOD besides pin 2 to wire up the ground? Looking at the pinouts.ru diagram, I could potentially use pin 1, but what about 11, 15, 16, 29 or 30? Having them all in that small space makes it a pain in the rear admiral to put the pins in nicely.


 
  I used pins 15 & 16 for the ground in my homemade LOD for my 5.5g Ipod.
  RC


----------



## Reima

Yesterday I did the diy Imod. I removed the components as shown in the photo and ran the wires from the capacitors by the DAC to L2 and L3. I took my time safely removing the components.
  After I re-assembled the Ipod it would not start up, nothing, no sad face blank screen etc. It just refuses to power on.
  What could be the problem? The Ipod was working just fine before I attempted the mod.

  
  Quote: 





>


----------



## Reima

Anyone?
  RC

  
  Quote: 





reima said:


> Yesterday I did the diy Imod. I removed the components as shown in the photo and ran the wires from the capacitors by the DAC to L2 and L3. I took my time safely removing the components.
> After I re-assembled the Ipod it would not start up, nothing, no sad face blank screen etc. It just refuses to power on.
> What could be the problem? The Ipod was working just fine before I attempted the mod.


----------



## cfcubed

My guess would be one or more of the various connectors you had to disconnect did not get re-connected/seated properly.  I'd take 'er back apart as far as you did & carefully remove & re-seat the cables.
   
  Hopefully you didn't give it a static shock that fried something.


----------



## dumbears

I'm not able to provide you a solution, but you may want to check the connectivity of those components lying next to the L2 or L3 components.  You might as well disconnected them while you're removing L2, L3 and the other necessary components.
   
  Hope this helps.


----------



## Reima

Quote:


cfcubed said:


> My guess would be one or more of the various connectors you had to disconnect did not get re-connected/seated properly.  I'd take 'er back apart as far as you did & carefully remove & re-seat the cables.
> 
> Hopefully you didn't give it a static shock that fried something.


 
  I did that several times, still nothing.
  RC




  
  Quote: 





dumbears said:


> I'm not able to provide you a solution, but you may want to check the connectivity of those components lying next to the L2 or L3 components.  You might as well disconnected them while you're removing L2, L3 and the other necessary components.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 
  I don't quite follow you.
  RC


----------



## gore.rubicon

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> Now might be a nice time to bump this thread.
> 
> The diyMod stretches across another brand, with the Cowon D2Mod (naming ideas?). Behold:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Is it possible to take the lineout from the 2 caps beside the white wire/line (CT3, CT4)? Something just happened to my d2, audio from right channel is dead, so im gonna try and diymod it, and get a new pmp.


----------



## Reima

It appears that I must have damaged something on the logic board. Today I received a broken (right channel on the headphone output was not working) 80GB Ipod that i got for cheap off of Ebay. I installed the hard drive and back from my original Ipod on to the broken Ipod and all works just fine.
  I have to build up some courage before I attempt the DIY Imod again.
  RC


----------



## sdotfire

Now, are these external caps such as BG really a necessity???  Seriously, I accidently used a noncapped LOD the other day and used an iMod/Protector with both sensitive IEMs and high end OEMs.  They were fine, then I tried a CMoy with some really really crappy stock iBuds and guess what??? No damage, is this just a lie perpetuated to market sales for both a new LOD and a capped dock?  I haven't heard a VCap dock so I don't know.....but seriously an amp should be able to be able, in theory, to block the minimal amount of DC Voltage coming from the iMod/DIYMod, correct?
   
  Also, what is being used in Ken's new iMod v2 cable for film caps?  I mean films are supposed to be HUGE so he has to be using some SMD or poor quality ones to fit it in the slimmer LOD......Also, BG is supposed to be the standard but you only need 2.1uF-4.7uF for 50kOhm-10kOhm input impedance amps.  So what could he possibley be using, I mean he must use SMD ones and mount a board to the pins or something....I am very tempted to purchase one and find out for myself.


----------



## sdotfire

Also, I wnat to remove the inductors/caps in my DIYMod...does anyone have internals they can post or send me of this of the board once these are removed?  I have only been able to find pics saying remove this, not the finished product.  Thanks in advance for any help or advice.  But I am serious about this working with a normal LOD, it is possible that this is something done solely as a marketing ploy to make us all waste our money....or I could be wrong but I'm just throwing that out there to all you more experienced DIYers!


----------



## cfcubed

I answered a PM from sdotfire about this in this way:
   
  It comes down to something very critical; *DC output offset*.  A DIYmod/iMod typically has a couple/few volts of offset *before the output caps*, as measured between ground & L/R "hot" leads.  That offset can damage amps/headphones attached unless _something_ along the way blocks DC.  Capacitors are often used. 
  A DC-capable/Direct-Coupled amp will just amplify the offset (frying typical/dynamic headphones, speakers if offset is high enough, e.g. several volts?).
   
  OTOH, some amp designs can handle / block incoming DC, it depends on the design. 
   
  Before connecting any (DIY) thing to anything else I *always* measure for DC offset.
   
   
  And that I don't know about commercial LODs, I do know that many here have used BG 22s or 47s for their small size.  I use V-Cap OIMPs that I got a good deal on in my LOD.


----------



## meltdown100

I'll apologize up front - I've searched about a 3rd of this massive thread without finding an answer to my question, and a lot of the photo links are broken.  So I'm going to be lazy and ask- 
   
  I've got a couple of 5th gen ipods and plan to get a 240gb 5.5 gen ipod - all of which I'd like to diymod.  My question:  has anyone found a way to squeeze capacitors into the case, there is a little bit of space in the left and right corner areas near the dock connector, I'm sure there are decent capacitors that are small enough to fit in there and make the LOD modding unnecessary, and that would also provide a substantial improvement over the stock SMD caps.
   
  Has anyone successfully done this with either the 5 or 5.5 gen?


----------



## Reima

@meltdown100, as far I know it has only been done in combination with the cf mod.
  RC


----------



## joneeboi

You'd have to find some really thin caps to get that done. One way is to get the CF card and adapter to create room. Another might be to go with a 30GB HDD and a 60/80GB casing. A real drop in capacity for you, so it might be better to get a custom LOD.


----------



## dumbears

Quote: 





reima said:


> I don't quite follow you.
> RC


 

 In short, pls check the connectivity of all the components sitting around the components you taken off.  On the other hand, pls also check the components around are short together.


----------



## candc07

Well, I used a cf adapter and an 80gb back for mine when my Elna 16v 47uf caps would not fit in the 30gb back. I did use the space you were talking about by the dock connector.


----------



## het.s

Quote: 





meltdown100 said:


> My question:  has anyone found a way to squeeze capacitors into the case, there is a little bit of space in the left and right corner areas near the dock connector, I'm sure there are decent capacitors that are small enough to fit in there and make the LOD modding unnecessary, and that would also provide a substantial improvement over the stock SMD caps.
> 
> Has anyone successfully done this with either the 5 or 5.5 gen?


 

 Take look at posts #2165 and #2148 of this forum, it can be done internally.
  L_u_k_a_s


----------



## deygun

i've seen the pict for ipod mini 2nd gen.. should i remove the component showed or just soldering the wire to the designated point? i forget who say this but it tell that it is better not to remove the caps.. it is true?


----------



## Reima

I recently got another 5g 30gB Ipod for cheap off of BST. Last night I decided to try and do the DIY Mod on this Ipod. This time I only removed the 2 capacitors next to the DAC and connected to the pads below the 2 output capacitors. This time I was successful, now I need some time to evaluate the performance of the DiyMod.
  RC

  
  Quote: 





dumbears said:


> In short, pls check the connectivity of all the components sitting around the components you taken off.  On the other hand, pls also check the components around are short together.


----------



## meltdown100

Quote: 





het.s said:


> Take look at posts #2165 and #2148 of this forum, it can be done internally.
> L_u_k_a_s


 

 Thanks a million, I knew it had to be possible - if those SMD caps can be as small as they are I knew there had to be something bigger and better that would still be small enough to fit.  Much appreciated-


----------



## neosoul

Can someone direct me to a picture of a 4g Ipod with caps inside or post a picture of one, thanks.


----------



## islubio

need urgent help
  have an ipod 5th gen
  n i have removed the components on the ipod for the mod
  HOWEVER
  the pcb board area at the lod side of the ipod got dmg n i cant solder them anymore
  can i solder the dac to other pins or somewhere else on the ipod
  are they any unused pin on the pin which i can solder to and i will change the pin arrange on the dock i make


----------



## Reima

Quote: 





islubio said:


> need urgent help
> have an ipod 5th gen
> n i have removed the components on the ipod for the mod
> HOWEVER
> ...


 
  Check out the link below.
  RC
   
http://cogent14.com/~ayl/index.php/projects/diy-imod-ipod/page-five/


----------



## islubio

thanks for the guide


----------



## islubio

damn it
  i just notice that all the spots for L2/ right audio is damage
  can i solder it to other pins on the ipod??
  or is there a way to solder it directly to the dock?


----------



## hasanyuceer

I dont know if this thread is still working but I have some stupid questions.
   
  First, is it all about desoldering some caps, soldering some caps and resistors. And its all done?
   
  As far as I understand, we cant use headphone out after this mod? Can we charge and connect via usb if we put caps in iPod/diyMod?
   
  I am thinking about getting BG NX caps but i am not sure if they fit into my iPod 5G 30GB. I saw some photos in the previous pages but they are all more GBs and thicker back panels than mine. Do you have any idea if I can fit BG caps into 30gb panel? Or will it fit if I get some 60/80gb panel for my 30gb ipod?


----------



## Reima

Quote: 





hasanyuceer said:


> First, is it all about desoldering some caps, soldering some caps and resistors. And its all done?
> 
> As far as I understand, we cant use headphone out after this mod? Can we charge and connect via usb if we put caps in iPod/diyMod?


 
  It is about desoldering some caps and inductors then soldering two wire (30ga) to create a new signal path.
   
  If it is the 5th generation Ipod then the headphone out is not affected.
   
  Yes you can charge and connect via usb after the mod.
  RC


----------



## hasanyuceer

Thanks Reima..
   
  Do you know if anything changes in headphone out? (like development)
   
  writing it again to be seen:
  Also I am thinking about getting BG NX caps but i am not sure if they fit into my iPod 5G 30GB. I saw some photos in the previous pages but they are all more GBs and thicker back panels than mine. Do you have any idea if I can fit BG caps into 30gb panel? Or will it fit if I get some 60/80gb panel for my 30gb ipod?


----------



## Reima

The headphone out does not change, the only change is in the line out.
   
  I have the BG NX capacitors installed inside my 30GB, 5.5g Ipod but I have done the CF mod. I have only seen the caps put inside a the 80GB Ipod without the CF mod..
  RC


----------



## hasanyuceer

Then I can install them if I get a 60/80Gb pack panel.. Thanks!


----------



## moodyrn

I can't find any black gate nx hi-q series available. What are some good alternatives that would fit inside of a lod.


----------



## QRomo

Sonic Craft still have some 47uF NX's available, though at a relatively steep price.


----------



## moodyrn

They are my last hope. It's the only place I haven't been able to get a hold of. They voice mail says that they will be closed through the 27th. Hopefully they will have some if I can't find a viable alternative by then.


----------



## hasanyuceer

I dont know if they still have but I got four from here: http://www.thlaudio.com/indexE.htm


----------



## moodyrn

I'll try them out, thanks.


----------



## moodyrn

Well they do have them, but they want 44.33 shipped for them. No way I'm  paying that much. I guess I'll have to find a good alternative.


----------



## funch

How about these. They're supposed to be as good as the BG's, without the break-in time:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=604-1139-ND


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks. I think I may go with those.


----------



## hasanyuceer

A dumb question again:
   
  Is there a polarity for caps? Will I solder Z caps to Long leg or short leg?


----------



## joneeboi

Some caps are polar and some are not polar. The long leg will be on the Wolfson side if it's polar.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Thanks joneeboi.
   
  I bought Blackgate NX's and learned that they are polar. Also I found that I will solder the long leg to Z caps.. Correct me if I'm wrong please..


----------



## FallenAngel

BlackGate NX are Non-Polar
  Elna RFS (Silmic II) are Polar, and quite nice, though I recommend Nichicon Muse ES, they're Non-Polar and sound pretty good.


----------



## hasanyuceer

So I'll solder any leg to where I want?


----------



## joneeboi

You can, but I'd solder the long leg towards the DAC just to keep your conventions consistent.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Thanks joneeboi, I will.


----------



## i_djoel2000

I have zune 1g coming in few weeks, so i got few quick questions..
   
  does anyone has successfully modded their 1g Zune? does it provide much better sound than the headphone out?
   
  after reading the tutorial and picture below, i'm still confused on how to connect L & R pin from DAC to the output line out dock of zune. anyone care to explain?
  
  Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> It seems we have another addition to the diyMod family: the Microsoft Zune 1G! This bad boy implements the WM8978/WM8758, much like in the iPod 5G/5.5G. I can't actually confirm that this chip is actually the Wolfson except by the process of elimination. Keep in mind that the chip is hiding right underneath the screen. Anyways, happy diyModding.


----------



## i_djoel2000

^anyone?


----------



## i_djoel2000

*still actually waiting someone knowledgeable to answer my questions


----------



## joneeboi

You solder wires from those points marked in the diagram to wherever you want to send the signal. You can see how the signal comes straight from the Wolfson, so you'll have the direct sound output from the CODEC. Mind you, nobody's done this mod before (to my knowledge), so you are breaking new ground here. Just know that it's not a guarantee that it'll work. If it does, let us know.


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> You solder wires from those points marked in the diagram to wherever you want to send the signal. You can see how the signal comes straight from the Wolfson, so you'll have the direct sound output from the CODEC. Mind you, nobody's done this mod before (to my knowledge), so you are breaking new ground here. Just know that it's not a guarantee that it'll work. If it does, let us know.


 

 wow, i thought it has been done before. because zune 30gb is mentioned briefly in the tutorial of diy mod..
   
  ok, i'll report here if i succeed. wish me luck


----------



## iQEM

hi Jon, how re' you? long time not post on this superb thread..

 hi Jul, experiment on Zune huh? goodluck with it buddy..

 Jon, guys, anyone, do you had any succeeded DIYmod with iphone 2G ? hopefully someone had make a path to it and share with me here..
 as you see, i'm plan to DIYmod my (as-is/broken sim holder/faulty reception) iphone 2G 8gb for an experiment, to replacing my (sorted DAC lineout) Nano 1stGEN mod..


----------



## joneeboi

No one's been able to do it. I destroyed my old iPhone trying to replace the battery (a lesson learned in having the right tools), and it looked very impractical to do a traditional diyMod. Your best bet is to bridge the capacitor pads on the logic board. You can find the images on my website.


----------



## hasanyuceer

I diyModed my iPod Video 5G with Blackgates. Now burning in while I am listening to them. my iPod was nearly dead because of my friends soldering skills. He burned the pads and caps and at last I managed to solder a channel to some chip. (Near the pads.)
   
  It is working just fine now except channels are reversed. I did the same thing as "the Collected diyMods" website but it turned out to that. (Actually, I am not really sure what I did at the last because of the excitement of burning things) Now I cant reverse channels because my board is almost burned. Is there any software solutions or do i have to build a "channel reverser"?
   
  Also I want to state that I easily fitted in the caps into the iPod with changing the back panel with 60gb's instead of 30gb's. I passed the cable into a hole in the board below lcd and another cable from between lcd and metal casing... Used 28 awg but they are a bit thick I guess.
   
  Edit: Oh yea, I will change the cables at the caps!!!


----------



## joneeboi

There ya go.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Also I want to thank foremost joneeboi and who contribute to this thread anyhow...
   
  I will add my comparison between diyMod and the original one and also recabled Fiio E1 and the stock one after burning in. So who has low budget and/or wants real portable systems (not transportable) will have an idea about that rig..


----------



## speedingredline

What versions of the touch can be diymodded? I am going blind reading this thread. So far I can only find that the 1st gen touches can be done. Thanks


----------



## knalb

Hi!
   
  Thank you everyone who contributed to this mod!
   
  I just did this mod last night. I used elna slimic ii caps because I couldn't find the black gates. They're great on the high end and balance out the low end (I have a heavy low end).
   
  From what I can hear, it was definitely worth opening up and modding.
   
  Running the diyMod 5.5g > McIntosh Mac 1900 > Original Large Advent speakers or MS-1s
   

  pic of the finished job
   



KKP_5810.jpg by Kip Keston, on Flickr
   



KKP_5810.jpg by Kip Keston, on Flickr



KKP_5810.jpg by Kip Keston, on Flickr



KKP_5810.jpg by Kip Keston, on Flickr


----------



## iQEM

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> No one's been able to do it. I destroyed my old iPhone trying to replace the battery (a lesson learned in having the right tools), and it looked very impractical to do a traditional diyMod. Your best bet is to bridge the capacitor pads on the logic board. You can find the images on my website.


 

 too bad, so sorry for what happen to your iPhone Jon...
  and the url to your websites are ? *i can't find it on your profile...


----------



## happiman

hi guys! i'm new to this forum. currently i'm modding my ipod 5g. according to the things i've read, this is what i've done and what i'll be planning to do. please correct me if i'm wrong. ok, firstly i've already desoldered off the 2 sets of parts. attached photos you're able to see it enlarged. 
   
   




  should i connect the cables and the black gates this way? after that is it all done?
   
  one more thing, this is my proposed rig. 
   
  above iMod 5g with 32gb CF card mod -> simple LOD -> Headstage Arrow 12HE 2g -> grado sr80i modded.
   
  would it work too?
   
  thanks for the help and the guidance. 
   
  cheers!
  Justin


----------



## FallenAngel

Nope, but close.  Check the guide for how to wire:
http://www.ualberta.ca/~jple/diyMod/guides/models/ipod5g.html


----------



## happiman

Hi fallen angel. May I know which part of mine is wrong compared to the photo u sent me? Cos 
 Is it the green arrow part? Cod I'm not v sure what should we do on the part where the green arrow is pointing. 

 Pls advise. Thanks!


----------



## happiman

Hi fallen angel. One more question, after I remove those 4 things. When I solder, I solder at the south part of all the points am I right?


----------



## joneeboi

There is no need to remove the elements when soldering your wires. In fact, it's recommended that you keep them in there to have a strong mechanical connection point for your wires. If you ever need to perform maintenance work on your diyMod, you will reduce the risk of lifting those SMD pads and (potentially) forever ruining your logic board's ability to be diyModded.
   
  Next to the Wolfson, you should solder to the south pads, not the north ones as pictured. Those are the CZ pads I'm talking about.
   
  At the dock side, you should be soldering to the south pads as well, south being the end with the dock.


----------



## happiman

Oh no, I've alr removed them. So now whats the best thing I can do? To solder them back again or to proceed without the elements. 

 Just to clarify one last bit, so the 4 ends of the wire I'll be soldering to the south end? 

 Ps: do u thing my proposed rig will be a good one? 

 Cheers!


----------



## joneeboi

Indeed, all four wire ends will be going to the south pads. Just leave them the way they are, but make sure you do it right the first time. You'll hate yourself for having to go back to it. I suggest air-wiring from the pads to the back of the iPod first, leaving extra length on the wires, and then proceed to add the caps wherever you want them. That reduces the need for you to go back. Make sure the solder joints are solid and clean before closing it all up.
   
  Your rig seems fine. The strongest point of your rig, I think, is the modded SR80i. I'm assuming that you've already gone ahead and cracked them open. You have greater control over the overall sound since you're able to open them and tune your mods. That's the power of DIY, being able to make valuable changes for relatively low cost.


----------



## happiman

no man, actually i haven't gotten the amp and the headphones yet. so i'm still sourcing out for them. a not v ex, sounds great and a neat looking one. 
   
  so joneenoi, any suggestions for me?
   
  hope to hear from u!
   
  Cheers!
  Justin


----------



## i_djoel2000

@knalb: what cable did you use for the LOD there? looks neat and good..


----------



## knalb

i_djoel2000 said:


> @knalb: what cable did you use for the LOD there? looks neat and good..







 Thanks. It's just silver wire from qables and neutriks form parts express. 

 After burn in and a few weeks of listening, I love the mod. Such nice highs now and the bass isn't boomy.


----------



## happiman

hi guys, the black gates mod, need at least how much time of burning in?


----------



## knalb

Quote: 





happiman said:


> hi guys, the black gates mod, need at least how much time of burning in?


 


  supposed to be 200 hours


----------



## happiman

sounds great! next up, mini^3! hahaha


----------



## FallenAngel

I wouldn't bother "burning-in", start listening!


----------



## joneeboi

Quote: 





happiman said:


> no man, actually i haven't gotten the amp and the headphones yet. so i'm still sourcing out for them. a not v ex, sounds great and a neat looking one.
> 
> so joneenoi, any suggestions for me?
> 
> ...


 

  
  Justin,
   
  Whatever fits your needs. If you're on a tight budget, then focus on getting the most out of your money. Grados are good beginner headphones. I see a lot of non-head-fi people get the SR60s and SR80s, so you're in good company. It's got the great, balanced, rock sound that's characteristic of Grados (of course), which goes best with vinyl. You probably want to do a bit of reading over in the Headphones and Amplifiers sections of head-fi. I can only give you a small opinion, but you have years of threads to crawl through over there.
   
  Jon


----------



## qusp

wow sorry to leave you with all that Jon, this place is literally teaming with DIYMODDERS, thread was pretty dead for a while and TBH I really havent been all that fussed with headfi since the change. plus i've been working on building my own portable rig (portable buffalo II with custom balanced IV/headamp) and i'm pretty happy with my listening sitch these days. seems in the time since my last post that mamny people have posted after making mistakes ruining the board when desoldering things. guess that instruction dies hard even with repeated instruction to the contrary people still think the SMD gremlins can get them.
   
  I still did it mostly out of force of habit for some time, but then i've done hundreds and its what people want, even tho they dont know why. heres a suggestion for those who must get rid of every last potential skerrick of the old signal. if you are making your own LOD, dont remove the caps and stuff, but take your output wires to a different set of unused pins for the line out, this way the old lineout is left open circuit and nothing can travel this route and the only way the signal can go is out the new wire. make your LOD to match and voila


----------



## i_djoel2000

i can't find any pictures about the ipod photo mod..anyone care to share?


----------



## happiman

hey bro, u can check out this website!
  http://www.ualberta.ca/~jple/diyMod/ (by Jon)


----------



## i_djoel2000

another quick question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 what's the different between ipod 4g clickwheel and ipod 4g photo?
   
  i saw in the jooneboi's tutorial the wiring is a little bit different. 4g clickwheel connected from pins located on the upper right of the dac and ipod 4g photo connected from the pins below the dac chip
   
  this afternoon i tried to solder the wire from the pin below the dac directly to the dock's pin.. nothing came out, only buzzing sound like the spinning sound of the hdd when i turn up the amplifier volume to max 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  any suggestion?


----------



## i_djoel2000

anyone??


----------



## joneeboi

Post some pictures of your work so we can see what's going on with your mod. Did you note that the provided picture was an upside-down?
   
  The difference is that the iPod photo is newer, has a colour screen and a completely different logic board. Some of the parts are more different than one would think, so the diyMod isn't the same between the two. The logic board on the iPod photo has a weird semi-Tetris shape cutout on the north middle of the board, and the audio pins aren't as accessible as on the iPod click wheel.


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> Post some pictures of your work so we can see what's going on with your mod. Did you note that the provided picture was an upside-down?
> 
> The difference is that the iPod photo is newer, has a colour screen and a completely different logic board. Some of the parts are more different than one would think, so the diyMod isn't the same between the two. The logic board on the iPod photo has a weird semi-Tetris shape cutout on the north middle of the board, and the audio pins aren't as accessible as on the iPod click wheel.


 

  
  thanx for the reply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  yeah, i just noticed that they are different. in fact, my ipod photo is a little bit different from both ipod click wheel's and ipod photo's pictures in the guide!!
   
  so i just compared the pictures of ipod photo with my ipod, then connect it to the pins below the dac. voila! the diymod is summoned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  i think i will like this diymod better than ipod video diymod, so far it has better treble but less defined bass. but ipod photo provides more space hence i can use bigger and better cable to experiment..


----------



## happiman

hi guys! just wondering, do the blackgates have positive and negative sides? if yes which one should i connect to? I'm using ipod 5.5g. the photo i posted can be found in page 151. hope to hear some solution soon! thanks!


----------



## Reima

Quote: 





happiman said:


> hi guys! just wondering, do the blackgates have positive and negative sides? if yes which one should i connect to? I'm using ipod 5.5g. the photo i posted can be found in page 151. hope to hear some solution soon! thanks!


 
  The Black Gate NX are non-polar.
  RC


----------



## i_djoel2000

i chipped the left channel's pcb surface when i was trying to solder the wire today, the right channel is soldered to the wire nicely..so i guess i have to solder the left channel wire directly to the DAC's leg. anyone knows the pin configuration of WM8975 dac chip? i wanna finished this diymod..
   
  i tried to search in wolfson electronic website but it seems the datasheet has been removed from that website. looking forward to your help


----------



## i_djoel2000

anyone? need help here


----------



## FallenAngel

Look at the datasheet


----------



## i_djoel2000

found WM8971 datasheet. is it the same with WM8975?
   
  do we connect it to ROUT1 & LOUT1 or ROUT2 & LOUT2?
   
  *edit: attempt success 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my diymod is working again now


----------



## iLovPieNCake

Why install resistors ? I have seen some people do it with this mod. Why ?
   
  Also, if I do the same thing happiman is doing and install some BG HX caps, will my headphone out on my 5g see improvement ? I'm looking for SQ improvement over headphone out.


----------



## 75911

Did the Mini g2 mod last night.   Forced the guts back into the case and ripped off solder pads at C69 and C70.  Started over with smaller wire, more patience, a little less stupidity, and used L7/ L8.  Robbed the dock portion of some cheap iSymphony shelf system that wasn’t working and taking up space.  Used some Radio Shack 100uf caps and plugged everything into my home theater receiver.  It works…
  (is everyone doing this with magnifying glasses?  I can barely see after all that squinting.)
  New battery is in the mail, heading to Fry’s tomorrow for a cf card (any suggestions? Anything I should avoid?)
   
  I have zero electronics experience or knowledge...
  This will be permanently used with my McIntosh mc240 amp driving vintage JBL speaker enclosures w/ 375 compression drivers and LE15A woofers (all inherited, don’t freak out)
  The dock will be mounted to a 2”x2.5”x6” plastic box, so capacitor size will not be that limited.
   
  I’m looking for help figuring out what caps to use.  Is it possible to go too big?
   
  Found this thread on Monday, I must say it can really suck you in, although I don’t think I have enough energy to read the whole thing.      Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote: 





ilovpiencake said:


> Why install resistors ? I have seen some people do it with this mod. Why ?
> 
> Also, if I do the same thing happiman is doing and install some BG HX caps, will my headphone out on my 5g see improvement ? I'm looking for SQ improvement over headphone out.


 

 Resistors are recommended by a Wolfson white paper to dampen the surge current when (un)plugging headphones. Something small like 100R works.
  
   
   
  Quote: 





75911 said:


> Did the Mini g2 mod last night.   Forced the guts back into the case and ripped off solder pads at C69 and C70.  Started over with smaller wire, more patience, a little less stupidity, and used L7/ L8.  Robbed the dock portion of some cheap iSymphony shelf system that wasn’t working and taking up space.  Used some Radio Shack 100uf caps and plugged everything into my home theater receiver.  It works…
> (is everyone doing this with magnifying glasses?  I can barely see after all that squinting.)
> New battery is in the mail, heading to Fry’s tomorrow for a cf card (any suggestions? Anything I should avoid?)
> 
> ...




   
  If size isn't an issue, focus more on the quality of the caps. If you go too big, it may take a while for the caps to charge up when you turn on the system. You only need a couple uF of capacitance, so don't get anything silly like 1000uF as some "audiophiles" like to do. Get some film caps like 4.7uF Solens if you can afford it. You might even want to pick some up for any tweeters you want to dampen in your speaker system.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote: 





i_djoel2000 said:


> found WM8971 datasheet. is it the same with WM8975?
> 
> do we connect it to ROUT1 & LOUT1 or ROUT2 & LOUT2?
> 
> ...


 

 Glad to hear it. Congrats!


----------



## 75911

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 4.7 uF Solens are less than $4.00 a piece on Parts Express.  Am i looking at the wrong type of capacitor?


----------



## FallenAngel

Nope, $4 is quite accurate.  I would personally recommend going with Sonicap Gen1 capacitors, a little pricier (still reasonable), but REALLY nice.


----------



## cfcubed

And he is one who should know having sold me the nice OIMPs in this pic:
   

   
  Till I went hog-wild on them my expensive caps were Sonicaps (having sold a couple Mundorfs)... And Sonicaps do sound/perform well for the $$, esp. if you're ordering them along w/some other caps to lessen shipping impact.
   
  IMO a well-done DIYmod + good caps is sure a nice bang-for-your-buck combo compared to something like this:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/437889/onkyo-nd-s1-ipod-dock/165#post_7111065
  
  Which certainly has an edge but is further out on the non-linear cost-vs-performance curve
  Quote: 





fallenangel said:


> Nope, $4 is quite accurate.  I would personally recommend going with Sonicap Gen1 capacitors, a little pricier (still reasonable), but REALLY nice.


----------



## 75911

Quote: 





fallenangel said:


> Nope, $4 is quite accurate.  I would personally recommend going with Sonicap Gen1 capacitors, a little pricier (still reasonable), but REALLY nice.


 


  where can i get them?


----------



## FallenAngel

SonicCraft : http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicaps.htm


----------



## 75911

my pre-amp's input impedance is 470k, amplifier input impedance is 250k,  does the capacitor formula only get applied to the pre-amp's input impedance?


----------



## hellomoto

Hello!
   
  I wanted to know if the quite specials specs of the Toucan amp would require any special caps for the diyMod? I would like something that could fit in a lod, that would be great! But, if it's sacrifying the quality of the mod, i may consider buying bigger ones.

 THanks for your help!
   
  Antoine


----------



## happiman

>


 
  hi guys! may i know what amp is the one on the bottom right?! is it a diy amp or something like that?
   
  cheers!


----------



## cfcubed

Quote: 





happiman said:


> hi guys! may i know what amp is the one on the bottom right?! is it a diy amp or something like that?
> 
> cheers!


 
  It is the DIY Cavalli Audio Compact Tube Hybrid (CTH):
   
http://cavalliaudio.com/cth/main.php?page=overview
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/398839/a-very-compact-hybrid-amp/2130#post_7113476
   
  Think we billed it as an intermediate level project (150+ thru-hole parts on a 3" x 5" PCB, 24VAC wallwart powered).  Kits are no longer available but AFAIK PCBs are (from cavalliaudio where you'll find BoM, etc).  There's info around here if you search.  They come up in FS forums once in a while too.
   
  From what I've read, EF* head-direct amps are commercial ones in roughly the same ballpark e.g. http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/454647/head-direct-ef-5-headphone-amplifier/135#post_6249753


----------



## happiman

alright! thanks man!


----------



## lkkspp511327

I just had my ipod video 5g 30G modded yesterday!
  before I mod it
  the battery is fine, but after modded it, it kept showing "very low battery" and the screen just kept flashing.
  but sometimes I still can turn it on, but the battery percentage bar above shows almost no energy left.
  but the lineout and phone out functions are all good.
  I also test it with multimeter, and it shows that the lineout connected directly to the wolfson chip correctly.
  The only problem is the battery!
  Did I short something that shouldn't been shorted?
   
  BTW, the body of ipod becomes hot when charging it!
  it''s scary...


----------



## FallenAngel

I had that when I didn't connect the clickwheel properly


----------



## lkkspp511327

does any one have tried modding the PO(Phone-out) successfully? can anyone show me which cap on the board to be replaced?
  My plan is:
  1.CF card mod (to make more space for internal caps)
  2.Phone out mod with 220uF, 330uF or 470uF?
  Line out mod(I've modded it and it works)
  LOD(lineout dock) with 33uF or 47uF ELNA SLIMIC II (35V or 16V or higher?)(how will voltage affect the sound?) maybe parallel with film caps(0.1u?or higher?)
   
  thx


----------



## 75911

thanks for the help and the thread.


----------



## happiman

Amazing!!!


----------



## suhaybh

Happiman, in regards to your Diymod on the ipod 5g, is your picture you posted on 151 (made on microsoft paint I assume) correct if we solder everything to the south ends? I'm mostly asking if the black gates are put in the right way.
   
  Also, did joneeboi say that nothing has to be desoldered from the board? Only soldering required for the diymod?


----------



## iLovPieNCake

Has anyone seen battery life improvements or degrades ? Just Wondering.


----------



## suhaybh

Another question. I read that vinnie doesn't actually put the black gate capacitators in the ipod 5/5.5g ipods which is why they have to use special dock connectors. But since some head-fi members have been able to mod the black gates into the ipod, can we use any line out cable with the ipod or do we still need to use the ALO/our own black gate cables.


----------



## happiman

yup, if everythign's in suoth pad, it'll be correct. as for the blackgates, there's no right way as they are non polarize.
  Quote: 





suhaybh said:


> Happiman, in regards to your Diymod on the ipod 5g, is your picture you posted on 151 (made on microsoft paint I assume) correct if we solder everything to the south ends? I'm mostly asking if the black gates are put in the right way.
> 
> Also, did joneeboi say that nothing has to be desoldered from the board? Only soldering required for the diymod?


----------



## happiman

when we mod the black gates into the ipod, there's not a need to have special LODs(as the capasitor are already in the ipod),  we'll just use normal LODs. But make sure that your LOD is not sure lousy ones.
   
  I'm currently using the fiio L3, resonably priced and resonably quality. haha
   
  Quote:


suhaybh said:


> Another question. I read that vinnie doesn't actually put the black gate capacitators in the ipod 5/5.5g ipods which is why they have to use special dock connectors. But since some head-fi members have been able to mod the black gates into the ipod, can we use any line out cable with the ipod or do we still need to use the ALO/our own black gate cables.


----------



## happiman

if you are talking about the CF mods, then there will be a slight battery improvements. as for the black gates mods, I don't think that there will have any differences.
   
  cheers!
  Justin
  
  Quote: 





ilovpiencake said:


> Has anyone seen battery life improvements or degrades ? Just Wondering.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote: 





suhaybh said:


> Happiman, in regards to your Diymod on the ipod 5g, is your picture you posted on 151 (made on microsoft paint I assume) correct if we solder everything to the south ends? I'm mostly asking if the black gates are put in the right way.
> 
> Also, did joneeboi say that nothing has to be desoldered from the board? Only soldering required for the diymod?


 

 It's better to solder the wires directly to the caps that are in place instead of doing the old method of removing the caps and soldering to the pads alone. You are less likely to lift the pads if you leave the caps in, ensuring the integrity of the diyMod build. Once you open your iPod once, you're likely to go in again and again, so having a solid connection for the wires is very important.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote: 





suhaybh said:


> Another question. I read that vinnie doesn't actually put the black gate capacitators in the ipod 5/5.5g ipods which is why they have to use special dock connectors. But since some head-fi members have been able to mod the black gates into the ipod, can we use any line out cable with the ipod or do we still need to use the ALO/our own black gate cables.


 

 It depends on how you configure your diyMod, which is one of the most powerful aspects of the project. You can do whatever you want with the mod. You can put the capacitors inside, but you can also make it use different pins on the dock, requiring a special dock connector. You can make it use the regular audio pins, requiring capped dock connectors or amps with input caps (or some method of blocking DC from getting to the speakers/headphones). You can tailor it to whatever your system needs, so you can do whatever you want, really.


----------



## semaniaci

is it possible to make this mod on iPhone 2G? because i took a look at that page you mentioned in the first page of this threat and there´s shown where to solder one side of the wire, but the another one isn´t


----------



## FallenAngel

Well, there's a guide for modding "[size=medium]Apple iPhone 1G/2G[/size][size=medium]", so yes, it's possible.  Likely the reason only "one side of the wire" is shown because in all cases of the diyMod, the other side of the wire goes to the dock connector. [/size]
   
  Quote: 





semaniaci said:


> is it possible to make this mod on iPhone 2G? because i took a look at that page you mentioned in the first page of this threat and there´s shown where to solder one side of the wire, but the another one isn´t


----------



## semaniaci

ow yep  thanks.


----------



## vincent199188

hi guys..
   
  this is my first post on this forum..
   
  i just got myself a ipod video 30gb and would wish to do this amazing DIYmod..
   
  i think almost everything clear except for caps... i have seen a lot of different value caps out there. like 47uf 4.7uf and so forth.. and some with 6.3v, 50v and etc..
   
  so what is the exact value of uf and v i should get for the mod?


----------



## joneeboi

The voltage rating of the capacitor shows the nominal maximum value of DC voltage it can handle. Since we're working with a max 1.5V, you should get something with a rating a bit higher than that. 6.3V is the normal expected rating for this application.
   
  The capacitance you need for the diyMod refers to the high pass filter that forms when you connect your diyMod to your amplifier. When you connect a series capacitor to a parallel resistor to ground (in the amplifier, this resistor is the volume potentiometer), it forms a first order high pass filter, which allows passes mostly high frequencies while attenuating low frequencies from the signal. DC power is, all in all, 0 Hz, a low frequency. Capacitance is the amount of charge that the capacitor can hold, and in our use, you only need a small amount of capacitance in the diyMod. The equation governing the size of capacitor in a high pass filter characteristic is
   
  C = 2*pi/(f*R)
   
  where C is the capacitance in uF
  f is the frequency in Hz
  and R is the input impedance of the amplifier.
   
  Basically, we want to filer out the DC while passing as much of the audio signal as necessary. Since humans can typically only hear between 20Hz and 20kHz, the highest frequency you want to pass through is 20Hz, which we'll plug into the equation. R is the input resistance of your amplifier, typically 10kOhms up to 50kOhms or 100kOhms. That means that for an amp with 10K input resistance, you need at least 31uF, and for an amp with 100K input resistance, you can get away with around 3.1uF. What amp are you planning on using with your diyMod? Normally, the commercial amps list the input resistance on their tech spec sheets. If it's DIY, it's normally the resistance of the potentiometer.


----------



## vincent199188

Thanks Joneeboi for ur reply...
   
  I am looking at wither pico amp, mustang or the hornet...
   
  so i guess a 47uF and 6.3v is good enough?
   
  and for the caps, if installed in an LOD, it should be soldered to pin 3 and 4 each on the positive sides and then solder the negatives to the ground which is pin 1 or 2? am i correct?
   
  thanks again...


----------



## wayneconnor

Just did the ipod photo mod. Not a lot of details here. Here' some pics:
   
  http://macintoshhowto.com/hardware/how-to-imod-a-4th-gen-ipod-photo.html
   

   

   
  I also found this pair of outputs on the other side of the board - the wolfson chip has two pairs of outputs - maybe this pair is going to the dock line out???  I didn't use them.


----------



## vincent199188

I was browsing through the pages and found a post saying that we should not use polarized caps...
   
  will it damage our equipment if we use polarized caps?
   
  and a lot of ppl are using elna selmic ii.. if im not wrong that is a polarized cap, so can i use that?
   
  and does bi-polar means non-polar?
   
  thanks!


----------



## FallenAngel

Polarized caps are not meant for this application (many people use them anyway).
  Bi-polar is synonymous with non-polar.


----------



## semaniaci

What capacitance and voltage capacitors use for LOD when i want to use diymod w/ mini3?


----------



## FallenAngel

Both questions covered many times, but Voltage is anything above 1.5V DC (minimum 2V recommended).  Capacitance depends on input impedance of amp - 4.7uF for 10K input impedance (Mini^3 uses a 10K pot).


----------



## joneeboi

What he said.


----------



## MartinM

Wow, I've done it.... read all 155 pages! Am exhausted! 
   
  All makes perfect sense.... questions...
   
  Can I mod my...
  a. iPhone 3G ?
  b. iPad ?
   
  If not then it's buy a new source time!  ....correct me if I'm wrong but sounds like a 5G ipod which has more internal room would be the sensible choice!?
   
  Thanks all, fantastic thread  and contributions especially everyones new mate... joneeboi !


----------



## FallenAngel

You've read 155 pages but skipped the first post where there's a link to mod details on all models?


----------



## MartinM

Yeah saw the iPhone reference but no explanation plus no mention of the iPad! 

Page 1 was read a while ago!!!!.... Lol


----------



## MartinM

While I think about it, how do these nodded units compare to say the Cowon units that seem recommended?

My first few posts here so pls be gentle!


----------



## FallenAngel

No reference to it generally means either mod isn't possible or it simply hasn't been done before.
   
  I'll leave the comparison to others...


----------



## noobfikt

The 4g has more room then the 5g. You would need to do the compact flash card mod to the 5g to fit the caps inside. I don't believe that the iPhone 3g or the iPad have high end DAC that this mod is taping in to.
  
  Quote: 





martinm said:


> Wow, I've done it.... read all 155 pages! Am exhausted!
> 
> All makes perfect sense.... questions...
> 
> ...


----------



## MartinM

Thanks guys!


----------



## neosoul

I thought this question had been asked before but not sure, could someone please either point me to the post or explain  the minimum/maximum gauge of wire used in the Ipod DIY mod, and is this recommendation valid for the ipod mini, 4th gen and 5th gen.


----------



## FallenAngel

Whatever fits, can be as thin as you can work with.


----------



## joneeboi

Anything thicker than the traces Apple uses for the audio will be fine. There's so little current passing through those wires at such low frequencies that you don't really have to worry about ampacity or heat dissipation. You should shift your focus more to aspects of the wire such as insulation thickness, ease of use, cost, length when ordering, etc. Consider that the amplified signal ultimately passes through the headphone coils which reside in the neighbourhood of 40AWG or so, IIRC.


----------



## Zerius

I am currently using cerafine as the coupling capacitors for the DAC, i'm trying to fit them inside the iPod easily, working with silver wire was a breeze when soldering due to the stiffness and heat conductivity, however cable management within the case is a pain since the cable is stiff and has memory to kinks. 
   
  Would you recommend that I switch to Silmic II caps? (if so where's the best place to order a few in Canada?). I'm also wondering about internal caps within a LOD. and whether it would be feasible to fit them inside the LOD housing of a Fiio E1. 
   
  Fiio E1 internals here: (not sure whose picture I am using)
   

   
  Cheers


----------



## Fishline

I'm finally screwing up sufficient courage to attempt the mod.  I've got a 5g 30gb (already replaced with 32gb CF card), and I'd like to try and fit the caps internally.  I've got the silmic IIs that look like they should fit.
   
  My question, just to make sure:  How should I connect the caps and wires?  Is this right?  South pad of Z caps -> + leg of caps, - legs of caps to  south pads of L2/L3.
   
  fishline


----------



## Zerius

Quote: 





fishline said:


> I'm finally screwing up sufficient courage to attempt the mod.  I've got a 5g 30gb (already replaced with 32gb CF card), and I'd like to try and fit the caps internally.  I've got the silmic IIs that look like they should fit.
> 
> My question, just to make sure:  How should I connect the caps and wires?  Is this right?  South pad of Z caps -> + leg of caps, - legs of caps to  south pads of L2/L3.
> 
> fishline


 
   
  From what I have read through the pages, that is correct. However jonnyboi has also said that the + leg is just for convention, (therefore -'ve leg should work fine as well).
   
  Where did you get your Silmic II's and how much was the total order?


----------



## Fishline

Quote: 





zerius said:


> From what I have read through the pages, that is correct. However jonnyboi has also said that the + leg is just for convention, (therefore -'ve leg should work fine as well).
> 
> Where did you get your Silmic II's and how much was the total order?


 

 Thanks for the confirmation.  I got the caps here, under $1 a piece: electronics-diy


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote: 





zerius said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 that only works on bipolar caps, which in silmic case, it is not. you have to connect the + leg to z caps


----------



## joneeboi

Quoted for truth.
  
  Quote: 





i_djoel2000 said:


> that only works on bipolar caps, which in silmic case, it is not. you have to connect the + leg to z caps


----------



## reaction

I would like to use the internal amplifier of 5G and to replace the stock coupling capacitors with Black Gates. Should I remove the "Z" caps on the picture below and to solder Black Gates at their place? Are these the coupling caps to the headphone out?


----------



## FallenAngel

Zerius : Silmic II at www.digikey.ca are 33 cents each, $8 shipping within Canada.  You can also get them from PartsConnexion.com, but there is a $5 charge on orders under $25.
  reaction : This is described in detail in the guide.


----------



## Zerius

Thank you.
  
  Quote: 





fallenangel said:


> Zerius : Silmic II at www.digikey.ca are 33 cents each, $8 shipping within Canada.  You can also get them from PartsConnexion.com, but there is a $5 charge on orders under $25.
> reaction : This is described in detail in the guide.


----------



## vincent199188

hey guys..
   
  i just did the mod and placed back everything and there was no sound coming out of my headphone jack,,
   
  i did it with my ipod video 5.5g but i have not managed to try it out with a LOD with caps..
   
  the headphone out from my ipod video should work but i wasnt therefore i suspect that it would not work even using the LO..
   
  Can anyone help here?


----------



## FallenAngel

Take photos, the mod does not touch the headphone output in any way.


----------



## vincent199188

Thanks fallenangel for the reply..

If the headphone out is not touched, and there is no sound after I mod it, does it mean that I have damaged my iPod causing it to not work anymore?

I will post pictures asap.


----------



## FallenAngel

Possible.


----------



## vincent199188

Instead of soldering onto the red arrows.. I soldered on the green arrow as there is more space..

Btw, what does lifting pad means?


----------



## FallenAngel

That still wouldn't touch your headphone output.
   
  Lifting a pad is when you break and remove a contact point from a PCB.


----------



## vincent199188

So if I lifted the pads on the green arrow can I still solder on the red ones?

Will it work?


----------



## vincent199188

hey fallenangel,
   
  i managed to resolder everything using a 32 awg copper coated with silver and it worked..
   
  the only problem is that the wheel became not as sturdy.. like it became loose..


----------



## FallenAngel

Make sure you didn't run the wires under your click wheel and the ipod closes completely shut.


----------



## no_eye_dear

Hi chaps, been a while since I frequented this thread, great to see that it's still alive and kicking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I have a request before I delve back into my 5G again.
   
  Is there anyone here with a scrapped 5G board? Toasted or otherwise that could do some investigative work?
  ... or are willing to pop it in the post?
   
  I'm going to change my line-out wires to use pins 14 & 17 but I'm not 100% sure that they are 'unconnected'.
  Take pin 7 for instance, that is said to be unconnected (or 'reserved' is the current terminology) BUT is definitely connected to something as you can trace the tracks around the board.
   
  Pins 14 & 17 seem free but what's happening under that connector?
  I don't want to send AC & DC down the pins if they are connected to something that wont like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  OK, I could lift the pins before I connect to them but soldering to them and lifting them (without damaging the neighboring pins) are two different things
   
  Is anyone willing to lift the connector off a dead board for me so we can take a look?
   
  PS: there is a good reason for me to do this, and I'll post the results if I do it....
   
  Cheers guys


----------



## FallenAngel

What about disconnecting those pins first


----------



## no_eye_dear

Hi fallenAngel
  Like I said, lifting those pins without damaging the one's next to them would be another challenge


----------



## no_eye_dear

Right... couldn't wait so just soldered them on and closed the case... turned it on and......
  Sad face 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Ah well, I popped it into diagnostics mode and checked all the functions
  Seems it affects the Harddrive in some way..... maybe a direct input that could be utilised in future?
   
  Anyway, I opened it back up, desoldered... and now it's back to normal
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So there you go guys, a practical demonstration that you cant directly solder to pins 14 & 17.
  Maybe I could break the connection to the board first but that is incredibly fiddly to do and you could easily damage the USB pins next to them.
   
  I may give it a go tomorrow... we'll see how brave I'm feeling
   
  Later guys


----------



## i_djoel2000

hmm..few months ago i misdesoldered a component in my ipod photo 30gb's pcb, then i lost that component. then in the end i managed to do the diymod successfully by soldering the wire to caps R904 i believe? everything worked fine few months ago, until my ipod keeps on showing error OS lately..
   
  i wonder does this have anything to do with the components i removed few months ago and leave it open circuit? this is the components that i removed and didn't solder back (marked in purple are):

  do you guys think it was because i desoldered that 'components'? what can you advise me now to fix this problem? really hoping to get some responds on this..


----------



## enregistree

Quote: 





no_eye_dear said:


> Right... couldn't wait so just soldered them on and closed the case... turned it on and......
> Sad face


 
  I'd look at pins 22, 24, 26, and 28 if they can be used, since FW data connection is not supported in 5G.


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote: 





i_djoel2000 said:


> hmm..few months ago i misdesoldered a component in my ipod photo 30gb's pcb, then i lost that component. then in the end i managed to do the diymod successfully by soldering the wire to caps R904 i believe? everything worked fine few months ago, until my ipod keeps on showing error OS lately..
> 
> i wonder does this have anything to do with the components i removed few months ago and leave it open circuit? this is the components that i removed and didn't solder back (marked in purple are):
> do you guys think it was because i desoldered that 'components'? what can you advise me now to fix this problem? really hoping to get some responds on this..


 

 help, anyone?


----------



## no_eye_dear

Hi *i_djoel2000*
  Well those are the microphone-in blocking caps so I see no reason why they would affect anything.
  It's more likely that a cable/connector is worn and showing an intermittent fault
  .... or even the HD itself has developed a lot of bad sectors.(my bet is on that)
  Try cleaning all the connectors with isopropanol or similar alcohol based fluid.
  (be careful not to get it on the LCD)
  If you go into diagnostics mode you may find the source of the error there.
   
  Good luck


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote: 





no_eye_dear said:


> Hi *i_djoel2000*
> Well those are the microphone-in blocking caps so I see no reason why they would affect anything.
> It's more likely that a cable/connector is worn and showing an intermittent fault
> .... or even the HD itself has developed a lot of bad sectors.(my bet is on that)
> ...


 

 thanx for the respond *no_eye_dear!!  *okay, broken hdd is one idea..but since before this error happened, i noticed this buzzing sound everytime my rockbox loads something..let say i'm entering my music menu from the main menu, then this buzzing sound came out! i thought this have something to do with the missoldered thingy? from your statement, it seems not..
   
  i'll go into diagnostic mode to fix the error, but there is one question..is it normal for diymod ipod photo for emitting buzzing sound like that?


----------



## no_eye_dear

Hi, never done the photo, but my 4G didn't have any 'buzzing' at all.... before it got stolen
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sounds like interference from the OS.... where did you route the wires when doing the mod?
  Is there a chance that the wire could be shorting to something on the board?
  Or at least coming close enough to the processor to cause interference?


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote: 





no_eye_dear said:


> Hi, never done the photo, but my 4G didn't have any 'buzzing' at all.... before it got stolen
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i lifted the left signal pad near the DAC chip, so i soldered the wire directly to pin 16 in WM8975 chip. the right wire is soldered normally to the usual pad mentioned in the joneeboi's manual
   
  how could OS have anything to do with the buzzing sound? i'm using rockbox, when the original apple firmware is used, the buzzing sound gone..


----------



## joneeboi

Can you a post a picture of your solder joints?


----------



## no_eye_dear

Well I decided to pop it on the microphone-in pins 5&6 and I also severed the board connection and bent them up to make soldering easier.
  Could have done it to the 14 & 17 pins but was curious as to what they are actually connected to...
  Could have done it to plenty of others but... hey, whatever.
  I did run a ground wire from the chip but after listening (loose wires before I connected them) I couldn't tell any difference from using pins 1&2.... so I unsoldered it.
  Still showing on the photo's however....
   
  So I Dremel the chassis slightly and bend them around the board right at the DAC, Blob some hot glue into the hole to make sure nothing moved whilst I was testing.
   
  The pin photo is poor (phone picture, sorry) but you can see the connections. You can also see the residual solder & hot glue coating from my connection to pins 14 & 17. After this photo I smeared the whole dock with a thin coat of hot glue
  Also popped a 120GB HD in there as well while I was at it
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Sounds certainly as good as the basic mod... has it improved it? Good question, need more listening....


----------



## no_eye_dear

i_djoel2000
  Sorry mate, missed your post.
   
  Well it sounds like processing noises, that's what I meant by the OS, but the fact that it only occurs on Rockbox makes we wonder even more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Show us exactly  where the wires run buddy


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote: 





no_eye_dear said:


> i_djoel2000
> Sorry mate, missed your post.
> 
> Well it sounds like processing noises, that's what I meant by the OS, but the fact that it only occurs on Rockbox makes we wonder even more
> ...


 

 sorry, i was wrong..the buzzing sound still occurs when i run the original firmware as well..
   
  what do you think the problem is?


----------



## Halfie

Damn it... i dropped my old DIYMod ipod when I was biking home in traffic, and now I'm pretty sure the logic board is busted: It won't recognize ANY hard drive i throw in it, but luckily the 240GB drive that was in it works in one of my other 5.5g ipods I had laying about. I think it's time to dab at DIYModding it myself. 
   
  Does anyone have any idea about where to hook up a ground wire inside the 5.5g ipod? I've looked through about 150 pages, and found one reference to a pad that sits under the clickwheel a little, straight off the DAC. I want to run a cable out the top/side of the ipod (drill a hole, obviously), and hook it up to an amp through that (with 2x 6.3v 220uF Blackgates externally before the 1/8" plug). Ideally someone with experience or photos of doing it themselves would rule, I've only seen the end result, not the insides. I don't really want to take the ground from the LOD pins, since I have no idea which ones inside the logic board they are, and don't have a multimeter on hand to test it out. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## High_Q

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> The voltage rating of the capacitor shows the nominal maximum value of DC voltage it can handle. Since we're working with a max 1.5V, you should get something with a rating a bit higher than that. 6.3V is the normal expected rating for this application.
> 
> The capacitance you need for the diyMod refers to the high pass filter that forms when you connect your diyMod to your amplifier. When you connect a series capacitor to a parallel resistor to ground (in the amplifier, this resistor is the volume potentiometer), it forms a first order high pass filter, which allows passes mostly high frequencies while attenuating low frequencies from the signal. DC power is, all in all, 0 Hz, a low frequency. Capacitance is the amount of charge that the capacitor can hold, and in our use, you only need a small amount of capacitance in the diyMod. The equation governing the size of capacitor in a high pass filter characteristic is
> 
> ...


 
  How did you get that?  Isn't equation for high-pass filter this? :
   




   
  where f is cutoff frequency(meaning that the lower bound cutoff frequency point, since you are letting in high frequencies), and you are passing everything over 20Hz(cutoff frequency).  By doing that you are filtering out DC(which has no frequency, f=0, since its not changing being constant), which is less than 20Hz, everything under 20Hz will not pass.
   
  Therefore,  you would get:
   
  C=1/(2*pi*R*f)
   
  Assuming I will use worst case scenario of internal impedance being R=10k ohm,
   
  I get C=0.7957uF
   
  Conclusion:  No gigantic caps required.
   
  I feel like I'm back at Engineering school


----------



## joneeboi

You're right, High_Q. I've written the equation so many times in this thread that it's made me loopy, apparently. My apologies to anyone who's followed my poor advice.
   
  Halfie:
   
  Look here. Alternatively, you can solder the wire to the one on the headphone jack. You really should pick up a DMM if you're going to be working on electronics though. They're only $10 at the local hardware store, $20 max for a sufficient model. It'd save you a lot of trouble in the future. I'm assuming you can afford it since you have at least two iPod 5Gs and a 240GB hard drive. A small investment like this will go a long way.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote: 





i_djoel2000 said:


> what do you think the problem is?


 

 Please show us your wiring. We can't help you as effectively without the pictures.


----------



## AT0MAC

Just to be sue I don't screw anything up...
   
  I have the 4G iPod Color.
  If I desolder C84 + C86 and re-route them to a pair of capacitors and back up to L2 + L3, then I have performed the iMod?
   
  I dont seem to follow any of the guides I see here, its very confusing with SO many different iPods in play on same page...
   
  Also, that iMod will give me:
  Non-amplified line-out to feed an amplifier from headphone out, correct?
  Normal functionality trough dock connector, data, charge, sound out if docked in a dock, correct?
   
   
  If I cant find any 47uf 6.3v Black Gate capacitors, what else can you recommend that are easier to find?


----------



## AT0MAC

Im looking into alternative capacitors, I found these:
   
   
[size=x-small]Nichicon MUSE KZ 47uf 50V[/size]
   
   
[size=x-small]Nichicon MUSE FG 47uf 50V[/size]
   
   
[size=x-small]BLACK GATE NX  22uf 6.3V[/size]
   
   
    
[size=small]Elna Silmic II [/size][size=small]47uF 25v [/size]
   
   
  ...wich sound best and gives best results??


----------



## joneeboi

Please don't desolder C84/C86/L2/L3. Please.
   
  Besides, if you're talking about those components, then you're not doing the iPod photo. That's the iPod click wheel. Please look here for further guidance.
   
  It seems you lack the understanding of the basic premise of the iMod/diyMod. You replace the series capacitors of the line level output of the Wolfson CODEC found in the more popular iPods. These types of DACs put DC on the electrical output signal, so you need to block the DC from getting to your headphones or speakers. If more than 20mV reaches your dynamic loudspeakers for enough time, they will be destroyed. One way of blocking that DC is by putting a capacitor in series with the signal, or putting it through a high pass filter. The high frequencies are passed through, but the low frequencies (DC is basically a 0 Hz signal) are attenuated. We want a high pass filter that only attenuates subsonic signals (so one can hear all the music), so we set a corner frequency, aka -3dB frequency, to somewhere below 20 Hz.
   
  The iMod/diyMod converts that high pass filter into a higher quality, audiophile-grade filter by replacing the stock capacitors with higher quality ones. Since the signal passes through the capacitor entirely, it can't degrade the signal by much. The iMod turns your headphone jack into a line out, but that's undesirable because you can no longer use your headphone. People have put up with this before, but I think it's silly. The diyMod shows you how to make whatever set up you want, including replicating the iMod. Preferably, you'd convert your dock line out to a diyModded signal, with or without the capacitors already in series. You can put the capacitors into the iPod, such as in the 4G click wheel and 4G photo, or you can put them in a capped line out dock. Since you have the room, you can put the capacitors inside the diyMod. You can make the line out dock the diyModded source, or you can do what the iMod does and convert your headphone jack into the aforementioned source. Your described scenario converts the line out dock into the diyMod signal.
   
  I won't comment on the capacitor quality. If it fits, it'll do.


----------



## junkers

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *AT0MAC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> If I cant find any 47uf 6.3v Black Gate capacitors, what else can you recommend that are easier to find?


 
   
  Does anyone have an alternative to these caps? Partsconnexion The sites listed in the guide don't have the part anymore, and although people mention that it's a matter of personal taste on what capacitor to use, I'd prefer to use something that's fairly common/standard since I'm fairly new to the audiophile business...

  
  Quote: 





			
				joneeboi said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Please don't desolder C84/C86/L2/L3. Please.


 
   
  You mention not desoldering the caps/inductors, but many of the pictorials show them off. I noticed on the tutorial web site that the instructions for the other models have a warning on top not to do so, but this is missing from the 4G click wheel. Thanks for the verification.


----------



## AT0MAC

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> Please don't desolder C84/C86/L2/L3. Please.
> 
> Besides, if you're talking about those components, then you're not doing the iPod photo. That's the iPod click wheel. Please look here for further guidance.
> 
> ...


 

 Joneeboi: I see you a quite the ignorante guy... Try help people instead of insulting them!
  I do understand the premisses in why people are doing it, my problem is simply that all the guides I see talk about the 4G, 5G, 5.5G or mini in details, but the 4.5G color model is kindly left out.
  Even the link you put up, there is one single picture of were to take the lead out of the DAC from, but none info what so ever about what to do after that.
   
  What im asking for is a guide to were the signal goes AFTER i tap it from the DAC.
  Also, what I hope to achieve is one of two things:
   
  option a) Doing the iMod, using a headphone amp and listen to lovely music but maintain full dock abilities.
  or
  option b) Doing what-ever-mod and using the build in volume attenuator to drive the headphones right of the output, without any headamp, with full dock abilities intact and with improved sound quality.
   
   
  If it makes you in a better mood, im not electronics [size=x-small]engenieur or anything related, but i am audiophile to the bone and thats why im trying to improve the sound off my iPod to have a portable FLAC player.[/size]
   So pardon me If my questions seem stupid to you, but if I know my fellow audiophiles right there are many more like me out there who would appreciate a little help in matters like this.
  Thank you.


----------



## junkers

AT0MAC:
   
  I don't think Joneeboi was trying to insult you. If you're referencing "It seems you lack the understanding of the basic premise..." you shouldn't take that as an insult. He's been more than helpful to all who've asked questions in the thread.
   
  For more pictures, check out the gallery: https://picasaweb.google.com/joneeboi/4GPhoto#
  No words, but I think you can figure out what to do, if not, then ask~
   
  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll do my best.
  a) If you're doing an iMod, that means that from the DAC, you'd be wiring to your capacitors, then to the headphone jack (DAC > caps > headphone jack). I've not seen any pics of this (probably one of the earlier pics in the thread where the bandwidth was exceeded).
  b) If you're doing a version of a DIYmod where you want to keep the headphone jack stock, then you'd wire DAC > caps > inductors (check pics for exact ones). However, this would only give you the improved SQ from the dock port. The SQ from the headphone jack would still be stock.
   
  As far as I know, the only purpose of this mod is to have a high quality line out that would have to be combined with an external amp. The whole point is to bypass the iPod's internal amp/volume attenuator which is lower quality.


----------



## Ericy

Awesome thread+++ I love seeing people do this kind of thing.


----------



## Halfie

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> Look here. Alternatively, you can solder the wire to the one on the headphone jack. You really should pick up a DMM if you're going to be working on electronics though. They're only $10 at the local hardware store, $20 max for a sufficient model. It'd save you a lot of trouble in the future. I'm assuming you can afford it since you have at least two iPod 5Gs and a 240GB hard drive. A small investment like this will go a long way.


 

 Thanks for the pics, they're really helpful!
   
  I went out and picked up a multimeter pretty much as soon as I realized that I'd be an idiot to be soldering and playing with expensive electronics without one


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





junkers said:


> AT0MAC:
> 
> I don't think Joneeboi was trying to insult you. If you're referencing "It seems you lack the understanding of the basic premise..." you shouldn't take that as an insult. He's been more than helpful to all who've asked questions in the thread.
> 
> ...


 

 I think that this is what you are correctly saying but to be clear:
   
  None of the DIYMods, iMods, or Whipmods improve the direct headphone driving ability of the modded iPods. Some of the mods do convert the headphone out to a line out but the effect is always the same:  an improved line out for usage with an external amplifier, not an improved headphone out for directly plugging in headphones.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote: 





junkers said:


> The whole point is to bypass the iPod's internal amp/volume attenuator which is lower quality.


 

 Close, very close, but no cigar, junkers. There isn't a true, classical amplifier in the Wolfson in the manner that many people think. The source level is actually line level, like other external CD players or DACs. What the headphone jack source does is it digitally attenuates the signal inside the DAC, and then it passes it through the passive filter to the headphone jack. The same goes for the line out, except it doesn't attenuate the signal at all. Turn the volume up on your headphone jack and it should sound about the same as the line out. You could effectively use the headphone jack if you wanted by turning up the volume to the max.
   
  AT0MAC:
   
  If you read past that one sentence, you'll find your answer. I prefer helping people to understand what they're doing  instead of just helping them mindlessly modify their expensive equipment by just telling them what to do. Even if the iPod photo's guide page is really sparse, you can read the iPod click wheel's guide because they are both really similar. Here is my amended response:
   
You replace the series capacitors of the line level output of the Wolfson CODEC found in the more popular iPods. These types of DACs put DC on the electrical output signal, so you need to block the DC from getting to your headphones or speakers. If more than 20mV reaches your dynamic loudspeakers for enough time, they will be destroyed. One way of blocking that DC is by putting a capacitor in series with the signal, or putting it through a high pass filter. The high frequencies are passed through, but the low frequencies (DC is basically a 0 Hz signal) are attenuated. We want a high pass filter that only attenuates subsonic signals (so one can hear all the music), so we set a corner frequency, aka -3dB frequency, to somewhere below 20 Hz.

 

The iMod/diyMod converts that high pass filter into a higher quality, audiophile-grade filter by replacing the stock capacitors with higher quality ones. Since the signal passes through the capacitor entirely, it can't degrade the signal by much. The iMod turns your headphone jack into a line out, but that's undesirable because you can no longer use your headphone. People have put up with this before, but I think it's silly. The diyMod shows you how to make whatever set up you want, including replicating the iMod. Preferably, you'd convert your dock line out to a diyModded signal, with or without the capacitors already in series. You can put the capacitors into the iPod, such as in the 4G click wheel and 4G photo, or you can put them in a capped line out dock. Since you have the room, you can put the capacitors inside the diyMod. You can make the line out dock the diyModded source, or you can do what the iMod does and convert your headphone jack into the aforementioned source. Your described scenario converts the line out dock into the diyMod signal.


----------



## AT0MAC

Ok, thank you joneeboi.
  Please help me clear out a few things im still wondering about:
   
  What is the difference in removing the Z-caps at C86/C84 and solder onto those joins or use the C921 and the one next to it?
   
  I understand why the C921 and the neighbor is marked in this picture, but what is the L20 and C924 marked for?
  https://picasaweb.google.com/joneeboi/4GPhoto#5353577569161996210
   
  So if I solder wires onto the right joint at C921 and the neighbor, into a pair of capacitors and back up to L2 L3 - have I then made the iMod with fixed headphone out or is it infact the DiyMod with variable headphone out?
   
  Last, if it's the DiyMod, what would happen if I sat the iPod into a dock like maybe the Arcam irDock?


----------



## joneeboi

Quote: 





at0mac said:


> Ok, thank you joneeboi.
> Please help me clear out a few things im still wondering about:
> 
> What is the difference in removing the Z-caps at C86/C84 and solder onto those joins or use the C921 and the one next to it?
> ...


 
 [size=medium] 
  C84/C86 relate to the iPod 4G click wheel, but you are working with the iPod 4G photo. The latter was released later with the colour screen, and their logic boards are very different with respect to the diyMod. Don't remove any components. Solder the wires from the north of the components to your diyMod capacitors, then to the dock pins L2/L3. C924 and L20 are marked by the user that submitted the pictures, not me. I forget why they did that.​[/size]

  [size=medium]Quote: 





at0mac said:


> So if I solder wires onto the right joint at C921 and the neighbor, into a pair of capacitors and back up to L2 L3 - have I then made the iMod with fixed headphone out or is it infact the DiyMod with variable headphone out?




​[/size]

 [size=medium]That's the diyMod with variable headphone out. L2/L3 are the audio out dock pins. If you want to make the iMod, you're going to have to solder the wires to the headphone jack. And if you want to do that, you're going to have cut the original signal to the headphones, much like this one for the iPod 4G click wheel (it'll be different on the 4G photo):
   
​[/size]

  [size=medium]Quote: 





at0mac said:


> Last, if it's the DiyMod, what would happen if I sat the iPod into a dock like maybe the Arcam irDock?




​[/size]

 [size=medium] 
  It would depend on the design of that particular dock and diyMod. If you mod it the way I describe earlier, then you won't have a problem with DC potentially destroying your equipment. Check the DC content of the electrical output signal if you can. If you choose to do a diyMod without internal capacitors, it would be more problematic. If you do it the way I recommend, then you'll have no problems with docks.​[/size]


----------



## junkers

For those who did the mod, was the SQ change noticeable with regular male/male 3.5mm cables or using a generic LOD to connect to your amp? What was the quality of the wires/solder that you used? Will I hear any difference using regular copper wires, regular solder, using a FiiO LOD? I was just curious as to how steep the price/SQ improvement curve was here, and if it would be worth it to do even with sub-optimal materials.
   
  Also, what are the pros/cons of a headphone jack line-out vs a LOD line-out (considering that the wiring was done correctly for each)? I figured everyone would want to use the headphone jack line-out so that they can charge while playing, but most people seem to like the LOD method (I'm talking specifically about the 4G here since the caps can fit inside the iPod itself). Is it because they already have a high quality LOD cable?


----------



## FallenAngel

Different capacitors sounding very different been discussed MANY times and is something everybody basically agrees on.
  Different wires, and especially something like solder is always getting trashed back and forth, some say no difference, some say big differences, all say the others are crazy.  Make up your own mind.
   
  I won't get into the last question, too many things to discuss.


----------



## junkers

Quote: 





fallenangel said:


> Different capacitors sounding very different been discussed MANY times and is something everybody basically agrees on.


 
  Yeah, no questions on the caps. I'll just have to experiment a bit and find if I can hear a difference between the few mentioned.


----------



## FallenAngel

If you're stuck on having them in the actual player, you're stuck with very small electrolytic caps, but if you don't mind an external cap, you can go with awesome film caps.


----------



## blackmoly

edited.....


----------



## blackmoly

Hi guys just want to share my DIY imod on a 5th gen 60gig ipod video.
   
  used @ 47uf non polar BG NX
   

   
  used a teflon insulated silver wires fastened by high temp tapes. The hardest part is routing the wires through this small area.
   

   
   
  the caps are inside the case so that i can use any LOD.
   

   
  added some CF sticker to the faceplate since i got it used with minor scratches in front.
   

   
  So far i'm very happy with the SQ


----------



## junkers

Nice job blackmoly. Looks pretty slick with that tape.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote: 





junkers said:


> For those who did the mod, was the SQ change noticeable with regular male/male 3.5mm cables or using a generic LOD to connect to your amp? What was the quality of the wires/solder that you used? Will I hear any difference using regular copper wires, regular solder, using a FiiO LOD? I was just curious as to how steep the price/SQ improvement curve was here, and if it would be worth it to do even with sub-optimal materials.
> 
> Also, what are the pros/cons of a headphone jack line-out vs a LOD line-out (considering that the wiring was done correctly for each)? I figured everyone would want to use the headphone jack line-out so that they can charge while playing, but most people seem to like the LOD method (I'm talking specifically about the 4G here since the caps can fit inside the iPod itself). Is it because they already have a high quality LOD cable?


 

 My big point with the diyMod is the value in certain parts of the audio chain. I know some people swear by certain aspects, some will pay hundreds of dollars to get it, but ultimately, you have to hear the difference. It might sound a little different, but the diyMod isn't quite the same as changing your headphone or your amp. I think wires and connectors are fairly insignificant on the audio pyramid. Honestly, if you want better sound quality, you should spend more money and attention on your headphones and amp, sometimes the source comes into play. I won't directly address any of your questions because my whole point is that they are irrelevant. I think it's a waste of your time to split hairs on such matters.
   
  I will address the last question though. Go with the LOD. You want the option of listening to the music unamped or undiyModded. Charging while listening will introduce a very noticeable hiss when amped, diyMod or not.


----------



## joneeboi

Also, great work, blackmoly. That's amazing. You're the first that I know of to accomplish this feat. Beautiful work too. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## qusp

good work, big long aerials though, do you get any noise?


----------



## suhaybh

Has the diymod modification been done to any other hard drive players? I really love the ipod and everything but I don't like the fact that it can't play 24 bit audio.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> Also, great work, blackmoly. That's amazing. You're the first that I know of to accomplish this feat. Beautiful work too. Thanks for sharing.


 


  wow, show us more pics, will you be offering to do this for others blackmoley?


----------



## blackmoly

Quote: 





junkers said:


> Nice job blackmoly. Looks pretty slick with that tape.


 

 thanks! that's a high temp tape to be specific, had to fasten the wires very well to prevent lifted pcb etch.


----------



## blackmoly

thanks guys!=)
   
  @qusp
   
  so far no noise.
   
  @expatinjapan
   
  I'm located in the philippines sir and currently offering the service to some of my headfi friends on out local community site =)
   
  0.47uf NX BG to be added to the existing 47uf NX BG:


----------



## semaniaci

would be someone so kind that he post some pics of opened imod lod? i need to know how and where to solder those caps. And other things are the same as when doing ipod lod?


----------



## ruZZ.il

You haven't looked at page 25, have you? 
   
  Just note that that was probably not a standard mod, and it used different pin #s but as you can see, small caps fit snug in there


----------



## semaniaci

no i havn´t  thanks for a clear pic. And which pins are the best option for soldering in case not having enough space for caps?


----------



## ruZZ.il

Well, if you do the standard mod by removing/bridging the internal caps, then the relevant pins are the normal R/L ones (3/4 respectively). If you're doing any other mod, you'll have to think about what suits you according to what you do. Though since you ask, I recommend sticking to the standard which is well documented and spoken about here and will have the best outcome anyway


----------



## Goronok

Ridiculously nice work! Out of curiosity, how much are you charging local buddies to do this?   I'd love to send you an ipod video and $$ to have something like this done. 
  
  Quote: 





blackmoly said:


> Hi guys just want to share my DIY imod on a 5th gen 60gig ipod video.
> 
> used @ 47uf non polar BG NX
> 
> ...


----------



## wgr73

Just wanted to say hi to everyone!! Man this thread has really got big! I was one of the original posters with Jon and now this is huge!!! Great work guys, I like to see how far you have come!


----------



## joneeboi

I know, eh? Now we have diyMod 5G/5.5G internal caps. Can you believe it?


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





blackmoly said:


> thanks guys!=)
> 
> @qusp
> 
> ...


 
  hmmm, errm.... why? bypassing an electrolytic with another smaller electrolytic of the same exact type, will do nothing at all except increase the total capacitance by 0.47uf and 47uf is already more than is needed to cover the bandwidth the ipod can produce and human ear can hear. adding small film caps in parallel instead, which are more linear, have better audio properties and lower impedance at higher frequency will improve the sound in the mid/highs, but what you propose above is puzzling.
  
  good to hear you didnt get any blitter noise, it doesnt seem to be as much of a problem with the ipod video, but i had issues with the photo when doing something similar
   
  also regarding the routing from the caps to output, a tip, just use a small diamond dust file to file that channel in the frame deeper and allow more room, but make sure to sand it afterwards to take the sharp edges off or you could damage the insulation and cause a short if the wire gets pinched


----------



## normalwrong

Just wondering how to attach the resistor in??
  I find some post for DIY IMOD but they just basically solder the cables in and thats it, didnt really mention for to put the resistor in..


----------



## qusp

thats because they really arent needed, you are only increasing the output impedance. they are only there to buffer the output from cable capacitance and possible short circuits on the output, not a problem with short interconnects to connect to a portable amp. you bypass an inductor too, but you dont see anyone putting in an upgraded inductor, although this would arguably be of more use than the resistor in filtering out noise.


----------



## joneeboi

The best place to store all the filter components is in the LOD if you can. If you use the right resistors, all the caps and resistors will fit without _too much _trouble.


----------



## normalwrong

ic..
  coz i heard like if imod doesnt hv resistor, it might possible ruin yr earphone..
  then i got more quesiotns come out..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  wt if a lod wif resistor work on a normal ipod? nth happens? or it will pull down the SQ?
  if i wanna make a lod for ipod touch, i also need to put a resistor in rite?
  thz guys


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote: 





normalwrong said:


> ic..
> coz i heard like if imod doesnt hv resistor, it might possible ruin yr earphone..
> then i got more quesiotns come out..
> 
> ...


 

 1) It hurts my head to try to read this kind of "writing", please look the following link for an explanation http://xkcd.com/481/
  2) Read the 2 recommendations in my signature


----------



## qusp

i think you are confusing 2 different resistors. the one for touch/iphone is not in the signal path, it has zero effect on the sound quality. the other resistor is the other way around, its to buffer the dac from headphone load and cable capacitance, not the other way around and yes, please this is an english speaking forum


----------



## joneeboi

There are two resistors that are associated with the Wolfson DACs, one in series, one to ground after the capacitor. The one in series, let's call it R1, is to reduce the voltage spike from connecting and disconnecting cables since TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) is deeply involved in all the diyMod applications. R1 protects the Wolfson.
   
  The second resistor, R2, is the one to ground after the diyMod capacitor. It discharges the capacitor so it doesn't build up charge. If you let it build up charge, it will discharge into your amp and possibly into your headphones. R2 protects your headphones.


----------



## normalwrong

Quote: 





fallenangel said:


> 1) It hurts my head to try to read this kind of "writing", please look the following link for an explanation http://xkcd.com/481/
> 2) Read the 2 recommendations in my signature


 


  Sorry about that coz im not native speaker..
  im new here and not familiar wif the search function...
  when i type in the key words its like pull up some post that is not related and like the 2007 post is listed at the front...


----------



## normalwrong

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> There are two resistors that are associated with the Wolfson DACs, one in series, one to ground after the capacitor. The one in series, let's call it R1, is to reduce the voltage spike from connecting and disconnecting cables since TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) is deeply involved in all the diyMod applications. R1 protects the Wolfson.
> 
> The second resistor, R2, is the one to ground after the diyMod capacitor. It discharges the capacitor so it doesn't build up charge. If you let it build up charge, it will discharge into your amp and possibly into your headphones. R2 protects your headphones.


 
   

  Ok...I think I am kinda get it..
  what if I want to put the resistor inside the LOD?
  because I saw some people is just put 1 resistor inside..
  Is it supposed to be 2 then?


----------



## normalwrong

Quote: 





qusp said:


> i think you are confusing 2 different resistors. the one for touch/iphone is not in the signal path, it has zero effect on the sound quality. the other resistor is the other way around, its to buffer the dac from headphone load and cable capacitance, not the other way around and yes, please this is an english speaking forum


 


  Thanks, I think I am really mess up between these..
  Can any tell me whats wrong with my english?


----------



## Halfie

I managed to get the iMod done on one of my ipods. 47uF Elna silmic caps internally mounted on the opposite side to the battery cable, using 29AWG stranded silver cable. I covered any bare metal with Green Goo from Games Workshop (it's some kind of putty that dried rock solid) on the caps to make sure they don't short. The strangest thing I have found, though, is that the iPod will only accept the 80GB drive that I got with it, no longer my 240, any of my other 80's, or even the 30GB. Weird, huh? I've installed Rockbox and I haven't had a full chance to road test it, yet, as the screen is shattered from a biking accident. Just thought I'd let y'all know that the silmics are confirmed as usable for an internal mod.
   
  A list of things I had to do to get it in there are as follows: Use a small file to create a tiny groove in the metal from the Wolfson to the back of the ipod, where I put the caps. One is hugging the bottom left of the ipod (opposite side of the battery slot), parallel with the bottom of the ipod, and the other is in the large "groove" where the back of the hard drive has some extra space. I cut a small indent out of the white plastic thingie that goes around the hard drive, Create another groove to lead the cables back out to the front again, soldered it (without removing the resistors) and snapped it all back together


----------



## Reima

Well I finally did it, I now have the best of both worlds with my DiyImod! I have internal Blackgate for use with a regular Lod and direct output (without caps) for use with a special Lod. To achieve the direct output I used pins 14 and 17 for the left and right channels.26AWG SCACag was used to do all the internal wiring.
  The photos of the frame shows the filing I had to do to be able to run the hookup wire.
  As you can see from the photos I also have a 64GB compact flash installed.
  RC


----------



## joneeboi

Very nice work, fellas.
   
  normalwrong:
   
  You can have four resistors, two per channel. For each channel, you have one resistor in series, then the coupling capacitor in series, then one resistor to ground.


----------



## normalwrong

How about if i just only put the resistor in LOD? 2 is the max?
  what's the differences between 4 and 2??


----------



## joneeboi

It depends on which 2 you choose. Choosing the series resistors, you protect the Wolfson from current surges when you plug your LOD into and unplug it from the diyMod and the amplifier. Choosing the parallel resistors after the capacitor, you keep the capacitors from charging up and discharging a large amount of charge into your headphones when you plug the LOD into the amplifier. It's recommended that you implement all four resistors. It may not be the way I've recommended in the past, but in order to make the diyMod absolutely safe for your equipment, it must be done.


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> There are two resistors that are associated with the Wolfson DACs, one in series, one to ground after the capacitor. The one in series, let's call it R1, is to reduce the voltage spike from connecting and disconnecting cables since TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) is deeply involved in all the diyMod applications. R1 protects the Wolfson.
> 
> The second resistor, R2, is the one to ground after the diyMod capacitor. It discharges the capacitor so it doesn't build up charge. If you let it build up charge, it will discharge into your amp and possibly into your headphones. R2 protects your headphones.


 

 hmmm, yeah ok the ~60R (if i remember the value) in series imo is unecessary, why would you increase the output impedance of your diymod on purpose? I have never experienced any pop, but then good practice should be followed with all audio gear, headphones, nor source should be plugged in while already on if you want to fret about it. as for R2, this DC only builds up when you use it without anything connected, otherwise the pot will shunt it to ground, i also think you will find it pretty minimal if you use decent caps; (again the point of the mod) which should have low leakage and all it would take is to touch the minijack with your hand to discharge it if you worry over your amp not having any mechanism to get rid of dc at any point from input to the output to your headphones
   
  not for me anyway, but john is right it is what the manufacturer would recommend in the datasheet, i just dont happen to believe they are important here to us.
   
  if this mod was about being safe, people wouldnt do it, opening a perfectly useable ipod to modify it often with little or no electronics experience, is not the 'safe' thing to do; no this is about audio quality and i believe both of them are not in the best interest of audio quality, i always omit these resistors in any AC coupled build i do for home gear as well (or just R1 in DC coupled), i prefer not to worsen damping factor if i can avoid it and then just follow best practices, i havent had an issue yet and i'm dealing with higher voltage than here. next people will be asking whether they should spring for zfoils and the cost of the mod will double or triple


----------



## qusp

also R1 will form an Rc filter with whatever cap you use, so really you would have to change it depending on the cap
   
  edit to add link: a first order high pass filter and if you have a cap at your amp'sinput,combined with your pot you will have an RCRC filter that possibly varies with the pot position depending on the type of pot


----------



## joneeboi

That type of advice is fine for experience modders, but there are many beginners walking in this thread, asking questions. Myself, I don't even listen to diyMods anymore. I almost exclusively listen to music in my car or with my iBuds, so I don't even use the diyMod much anymore. Nevertheless, if I were to do it myself, I wouldn't include any resistors. I'd remember to plug in the LOD before turning it on, but not everyone doing this mod even understands the implications behind some of these practices. Therefore, for simplicity, I recommend including the series resistors and shunt resistors for those who don't know any better.
   
  In a sense, I'm covering myself for liability if someone should destroy their headphones by letting their diyMod capacitors charge up before plugging them into their DC-coupled amplifier with their headphones plugged in. It's a really remote possibility of that happening, but it's not impossible or unreasonable to expect to have that happen. Chances are I've probably done it myself a couple times at this point, and just because it does happen doesn't mean that the headphones are actually destroyed. Maybe it doesn't even phase it at all. Of course, everyone assumes all the risk when they take on a mod like this, but even still, I want to limit the damage done to people's equipment. There have been quite a few logic board-brickings documented in this thread by myself or others, and that's a costly and nerve-wrecking position to be in. Hence, that's why I don't recommend desoldering components anymore. Even though this is a mod, I'm trying to reduce the amount of risk for myself and for any participants.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote: 





qusp said:


> also R1 will form an Rc filter with whatever cap you use, so really you would have to change it depending on the cap
> 
> edit to add link: a first order high pass filter and if you have a cap at your amp'sinput,combined with your pot you will have an RCRC filter that possibly varies with the pot position depending on the type of pot


 

 For the shunt resistor, I'd make it a high resistance such that any interactions would be minimized. Plus, if you're using an amp with input caps, maybe you'd do away with the capped LOD altogether.


----------



## normalwrong

Just got couple questions here...
  how you guys open the dock? and how to remove the resistor without damaging the logic board


----------



## joneeboi

Which dock are you using? I presume it comes down to desoldering techniques for SMD components. Alternatively, you can buy a dock for DIY at www.chargeconverter.com/store/.


----------



## suhaybh

Is there a picture tutorial for the diymod 5.5g and the LOD? I know absolutely nothing about the components being discussed on this thread but am alright with a soldering iron. I would like to find a step by step tutorial on pictures or video. Any help with a link would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## FallenAngel

Yes, look at the first page


----------



## paulus germanus

A very comprehensive guide to diyModding: http://www.ualberta.ca/~jple/diyMod/

and here is a video of how to make LOD (but w/o capacitors inside): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2W2jxDAaOQ
(in case you won't be able to get Black Gate capacitors [apparently the best ones], try these: http://uk.farnell.com/vishay-bc-components/mal212853479e3/capacitor-47uf-6-3v/dp/1166614?Ntt=MAL212853479E3)

for any further info dig the web, there are tons of scattered pieces around


----------



## suhaybh

Wow thanks man! This should be mentioned on the first post for beginners.


----------



## joneeboi

It is.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> It is.


 

 You can't buy a comeback opportunity like that.


----------



## High_Q

Hey guys, I have alot of LOD parts, and wasn't to experiment with different types of capacitors.  Can you guys recommend some good ones for the imod?  I am doing 47uF, should I experiment with different capacitance? What about voltage ratings?  
   
  I've seen some ridiculous sized caps for imod... why are they so big?  They compared to my scrotum size.


----------



## joneeboi

There are lots of threads and resources on picking capacitors. Here are two.
   
  http://ecp.cc/cap-notes.html
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/254491/boutique-capacitors-where-to-buy
   
  For the diyMod, you need a very low capacitance and voltage rating. The caps need to be able to withstand 1.5 VDC, so that should cover almost all through hole capacitors. 47uF is really large since you can get away with as low as 1uF. The giant caps are for people who aren't confining their cap sizes to the inside of the iPod case or the LOD housing. It's just personal preference. There's a very large resource base for choosing capacitors for their sound signature. Google will help you.


----------



## High_Q

^Thanks bud.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   

 Anybody ever try listening with V-caps?  Can anybody testify there is a noticeable quality improvement.


----------



## FallenAngel

Sure, I used V-Cap OIMP as well as OIMP bypassed by TFTF.  They sound good.  Whether I would again choose to use them is another story (just personal preference regarding diyMod + VCap in price comparing to other DAPs).


----------



## paulus germanus

While modding I've accidentally removed the part encircled with red. Can that turn out to be a problem? Help me out here plz guys.



After completing the mod, the audio output seems to be ok though.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





fallenangel said:


> Sure, I used V-Cap OIMP as well as OIMP bypassed by TFTF.  They sound good.  Whether I would again choose to use them is another story (just personal preference regarding diyMod + VCap in price comparing to other DAPs).


 

 I never got to try the V-Cap with my iMod when i had it although I was very interested to. At this point, you can also get the Solo. So once you are making that kind of size (and cost) committment, there are indeed alternatives to consider.


----------



## Reima

Quote: 





paulus germanus said:


> While modding I've accidentally removed the part encircled with red. Can that turn out to be a problem? Help me out here plz guys.
> 
> 
> 
> After completing the mod, the audio output seems to be ok though.


 
  Removing that capacitor is not a problem. Some like myself remove as well as L2, L3 and the capacitor below L2.
   
http://cogent14.com/~ayl/index.php/projects/diy-imod-ipod/page-four/ 
   
  RC


----------



## paulus germanus

reima said:


> Removing that capacitor is not a problem. Some like myself remove as well as L2, L3 and the capacitor below L2.
> 
> http://cogent14.com/~ayl/index.php/projects/diy-imod-ipod/page-four/
> 
> RC




Thank you v much sir


----------



## paulus germanus

I was looking for the best wire to mod my iPod but I failed to find any comprehensive guide on what to use (only some scattered info here and there) - hence my question:

*What is the best wire to mod an iPod (5.5g)?:*
- optimum gauge (that'll fit under 5,5g front panel)? as gauge has an impact on electron transmission(?),
- metal: silver, copper, any other?,
- single- or multi-core?
- type of insulation?,
- any specific manufacturer?,
- where to buy? (preferably inside the European Union, but only preferably),

Vinnie from RWA said: "We use Cardas' patented Golden Section Litz Wire. It is copper, and only sold in OEM applications (on a large spool) to manufacturers, not to the DIY community." and indeed it seems to be imposible to find online.

Thank you for all the help,
Paulus


----------



## FallenAngel

Gauge : Exactly correct.  Anywhere between 26-32 should fit unless insulation is very thick.
  Metal : Your choice.
  Solid-core, easier to work with.
  Insulation : Thin and preferably very flexible, Teflon jumps to mind.
  Manufacturer : Your choice.
  Where to buy : Your choice, eBay is an option.
   
  Note : Percy Audio sells Cardas solid-core single strand wire in 100' spools for VERY reasonable price.  I love that stuff for interconnects, just add Teflon tubing (yes, you'll sleeve it yourself) and you have awesome wire for cheap.
  
  Quote: 





paulus germanus said:


> I was looking for the best wire to mod my iPod but I failed to find any comprehensive guide on what to use (only some scattered info here and there) - hence my question:
> 
> *What is the best wire to mod an iPod (5.5g)?:*
> - optimum gauge (that'll fit under 5,5g front panel)? as gauge has an impact on electron transmission(?),
> ...


----------



## High_Q

Is capped LOD really necessary if your amp already has capps for each channel?  The DC offset I understand will damage ear speakers if it reaches a critical level with additive affects from the swing of the current.  That may physically orient the head spreaker to a extreme position as to blow it.  If the LOD is not capped, and the offset goes into the amp connected.  Decoupling capcitor will filter it out and amp the audio signal minus DC, and the output cap will rid the whole situp of outputting offset to the headphones.


----------



## Fishline

Quote: 





fishline said:


> I'm finally screwing up sufficient courage to attempt the mod.  I've got a 5g 30gb (already replaced with 32gb CF card), and I'd like to try and fit the caps internally.  I've got the silmic IIs that look like they should fit.
> 
> My question, just to make sure:  How should I connect the caps and wires?  Is this right?  South pad of Z caps -> + leg of caps, - legs of caps to  south pads of L2/L3.
> 
> fishline


 

 Just want to report that I've finally got it done.  I've gotten the wiring with internal caps a couple of months back.  However, when I used the diymod, from fully charged to battery indicator showing red took only around 45 minutes.  Besides, I did not have a LOD to test.  Now I've built a basic LOD (no caps, since those are already in the diymod), and I've found a short: when I solder the wire to the south pad of the right z cap, I had wire exposed a bit too long, and it seemed to touch the tiny soldering point right next to it.  Fixed that problem, and the battery life is back to what it should be (which is really good, because of the 32gb CF in place of the 30gb hdd).
   
  So far, I've tried hooking it up to my Starving Student and AKG K701, and it sounds sweet!
   
   I gave my son an identical ipod 5g (also with the 32gb CF mod), so I will be able to compare them to see if I hear any difference.  Will report back soon...


----------



## i_djoel2000

is using 10uF capacitor sufficient for diymod LOD? i'm planning to use silmic II 10uF. is there any difference if i were to use silmic II 22/47uF?


----------



## FallenAngel

Only depends on what the input impedance of your amp is.  For 10K (most portable amps), 4.7uF is a good number, for 50K (most home amps), 1uF is plenty.


----------



## qusp

i recommend using the 2 pads down and slightly right from the bottom cap and inductor, tiny little pads that are there as test points for the output for service people i guess. there is complete continuity between them and the south pad of l2 and l3 use your dmm to test which is l/r i cant remember off the top of my head. you'll have to use some flux and tin the pads and wire first. use thin wire and secure it in place with a dab of epoxy once you test that its working properly. 
   
  just edited the pic from above to show. it bypasses the bottom cap too, so you dont even need to remove that. so bottom is right and top one is left now i can see it.
   
.


----------



## qusp

these things are really starting to die though, wont be too long before the parts are useless. the plastic in legit apple parts are getting old and brittle and oem are often dodgy.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





qusp said:


> these things are really starting to die though, wont be too long before the parts are useless. the plastic in legit apple parts are getting old and brittle and oem are often dodgy.


 

 That's disturbing, Jeremy. I have a pristine refurbished iPod Video 5.5G - never used - that the Apple Store gave me circa 2007 when the battery on my old one died. I was thinking of having it modded at some point...


----------



## qusp

it may well be fine, i'm just saying its a bit unpredictable and due to the fact that this is a 6+ year old model some of the parts are starting to show signs of fatigue, even the refurb ones. mainly in the little connectors, which are really quite fragile pieces of near impossible to replace thin plastic. you can get oem parts for most things that are new, but they are mostly of lesser quality and you cant get a refurb, or oem 80gb model logic board, the one with 64mb of internal memory, lots of ebay and other online sites claim they are selling it, but they arent, all of the oem boards i have seen, without fail are the 32mb model, which when using larger hard drives runs the battery out quicker and isnt as quick to seek, as the cache is smaller. 
   
  but sounds like yours is probably a new board, just keep it out of the elements.


----------



## cooperpwc

I will. Actually my previous single-platter 5.5G iMod with 120GB drive was quite fast accessing music and had decent battery life. I was surprised at how well it functioned.


----------



## Hiyono

Hi, I got an old ipod 5.5 from my sister.  I had just a few questions to double check before I start everything.
   
  1. On the http://www.ualberta.ca/~jple/diyMod/, it says not to remove caps and inductors.  I still remove the Z chips, right?
   
  2. If I want the caps to be inside the ipod.  The Caps go inbetween the Z chips and the C84/C85?
   
  3. If I buy a regular LOD, which should have resistors in it already.  Do I still need to put 47k or 100R resistors in?


----------



## Hiyono

Can someone help me with some questions?
   
  I been doing the DIYmod for an ipod 5.5.  The Left Channel is perfect, but the right channel is super quiet and fuzzy.
   
  What I want to know is if this happens if the capacitor is defective.  I put 2 wire onto a headphone plug to test.( one to ground one to right channel) When I touch the line before the capacitor the sound is loud(same volume and quality as left channel) When I touch the other capacitor leg that leads to the line out.  Its super quiet and humming fuzzy sounding.
   
  Z cap > wire > (loud) > Black gate NX HiQ 22uf 6.3v > (super quiet/fuzzy) > Wire> L2
   
  These BG should be Bi-polar. So I'm not soldering to the wrong side.
   
  What do you guys think?


----------



## joneeboi

The BGs are bipolar, but it's best to keep the polarity anyways. Also, you shouldn't have two capacitors in series. That could create big problems. It's fine if you mean that you soldered your wire to the Z-cap on the leg nearest the Wolfson, in which case the caps would not be connected in series.


----------



## Hiyono

The site I got them is sending me a new cap.  I dont have them in series.  1 for each channel.  Hope this will fix it.


----------



## vincent199188

@Hiyono
   
  could u tell me where u get ur BG NX-HiQ Caps please?
   
  and btw guys, im going to mod another ipod 5th gen.. i was wondering if the wires used in the DIYmod will be different if different wires are used? im thinking of getting the SCSCag 26awg wire from whiplashaudio for the current diymod im going to mod... anyone used the SCSCag for diymod? any comments on the SQ compared to wires like silver plated copper or the famous Mundorf silver/gold?
   
  THANKS!


----------



## Hiyono

There are two places that still sell blackgates.  I ordered off ebay that has like 1500+ rating 99.8%.  After I ordered, the Taiwanese site replied and said they sell them.  
   
  The ebay site is http://myworld.ebay.com/hanshare-electronics/          I got the BG NX HiQ 22uf 6.3v 
   
  the taiwanese site.  http://www.thlaudio.com/


----------



## i_djoel2000

hi guys, it's been a while since my last visit to this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  just want to inform the TS, i have finished plenty of diymod, thanks to you! but i won't bother with those things right now. just wanna ask, can i use ipod classic hdd: http://www.idemigods.com/iPod_Classic_120GB_Hard_Drive_MK1231GAL_HS12YHA_p/120gbhrddrv_mk1231gal.htm to replace my 30gb ipod video's hdd? the dimension fits perfectly, no idea about the pins compatibility
   
  i hope someone can answer this question. thanks!


----------



## qusp

not normally no, there are some kits online will apparently allow this, but normally there is a firmware glich that prevents it from working


----------



## neosoul

I believe he can use this drive in the 5g, I think it is the same 120gb drive alo uses in their Imod conversions.


----------



## cooperpwc

No, people have tried that Toshiba drive and it doesn't work. The correct 120GB drive to upgrade the iPod Video 5.5G is the Samsung hs12yha. It is the one used in the Super iMods.


----------



## neosoul

Well the picture shows Toshiba, but the hs12yha is listed in the description that's why I said this drive will work.


----------



## neosoul

This chart has always been a valuable resource for me as to what will fit which models.
   
  http://www.rapidrepair.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2672


----------



## cooperpwc

I would stick with the Samsung.  Note also that the details specifically reference iPod Video compatibility - not 6G compatibility.
   
  Regarding the chart, RapidRepair don't sell a single platter 120GB drive for the ipod Video. (The Samsung hs12yha is single platter and uses the original 30GB iPod back.)


----------



## neosoul

Noted. Just took a quick look and saw the hs12yha at the end of the description,  didn't look at anything else at the time.


----------



## i_djoel2000

thanks for the replies guys..really appreciate it that's too bad, i'm thinking of doing that mod. since i have ipod classic 120gb HDD around


----------



## ttl_ctrll

I just wanna say that this whole thread has marked the beginning of my search for ultimate sound quality. Thanks johneeboi


----------



## burnwaygta4

As I understand it for ipod 5G do not need high-pass filter? Just replace the capacitor? I use the headamp amb mini3.


----------



## i_djoel2000

anybody's done CF mod on ipod photo 4g? do we set the IDE-CF converter in master mode or slave mode? this is the converter i'm using: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CF-Compact-Flash-1-8-HDD-IDE-Adapter-IPOD-4G-/220560856772?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335a7396c4
   
  my ipod photo keeps restarting once it's connected to pc, hence i cannot install the ipod firmware


----------



## psgarcha92

hey Guys
  is there no diymod for the nano 5th gen?
  if not, what should be done to find one?


----------



## i_djoel2000

so i have an iriver h120 right now, and i wanna ask something
   
  say i want to mod the line out. will the digital out still work? because the line out and digital out occupy the same output jack. this is my only iriver so i don't want to risk it unless i can confirm the validity of this mod. lol


----------



## erasertom

Thanks to all who posted, have read almost all 2465 posts. Very informative.
   
  Just started my own 30GB 5.5  imod with internal caps, been meaning to to this for a while.

 Replacing the hard drive with an iFlash CF Adapter and a 32GB Kingston CF, and introducing two Elna Silmic II 47uF/6.3vdc caps into the signal path. Using 30AWG solid silver, teflon coated wire. Soldering with Cardas Quad Eutectic solder.

 Excepting any missteps, how many hours should it take to complete? I have moderate skill level.
   
  Peace,
   
  T


----------



## normalwrong

Hey guys,
  im looking for some capacitor to put on my LOD,
  i saw a guy using 220uF 25V Elna slimic II capacitor (Huge!!!)
  Do u guys if any suggestions if i wanna put the capacitor outside the dock?? which will bring be the best sounding?


----------



## natx

Hey all,
   
  Hope I'm not too late for the party. I'm rather confused about the capacitors. 
  If I can get my elna caps inside the iPod does that mean I don't need to have them on the LOD?
   
  So sorry for this noob question but the many pages have got me all confused (some just wire straight out to the 30 pin and then put the caps in the LOD, so if I do pin out > wires > caps > 30 pin do I still need caps in my LOD?)
   
  Thanks in advance! (=


----------



## erasertom

Awesome mod. Thought about it for a while, finally pulled the trigger.
  Just under 90 minutes from open to close. Burned in for 80+ hours.
   
  Awesome, equals cd quality output with my lossless files on this mod.
   
  Anyone with basic+ solder skills can manage this mod, a 10x magnifier
  was the key to an easy time with this mod. Practice on a dead logic board
  prior to the real thing.
   
  I desoldered the coupling  caps near the DAC, the inductors near the dock,
  and the capacitors that comes right after the dock inductor.
   
  Wanted to, just because.
   
  I also love the CF conversion, the player is much quicker to navigate. silent too.
  Battery play is 10 hours+
   
   
   
  Thanks everybody!


----------



## klazzera

hello folks, as the thread got too crowded, i didn't have chance to read all the pages. i have four clear questions:
   
  on the ipod nano 1g,
   
  1-) can i use THESE capacitors right after the dac? if not, can you give me an affordable alternative? 
  2-) do i need to place a resistor after the cap, before the amp?
  3-) where can i get the ground around the dac?
  4-) can i get the line out right after the smd caps without bothering for some external caps?
   
  thanks.
   
  edit:
  5-) does headphone amp connected to line out has better soundquality than ipod's 3.5mm jack?


----------



## wgr73

Boy oh boy has this thread grown!  Being one of the original posters, having modded my 5g, 5.5g, nano....then selling them, coming back years later and people are still going strong! That's nice to see.  Makes me wonder if the Redwine iMod guys have stepped up their game!
   
  I'm not crazy about audiophile-ism (if that is a word) as I was 6 years ago (I have a car that burns my money now) but I still have some of my high end stuff.  Great to see you guys hard work, keep at it!  Shout out to Jon!


----------



## no_eye_dear

Ha, I know what you mean... I hung up my boots a year ago but a fellow Head-Fi'er has got me to do a direct out on a 5G for him.... I enjoyed it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
Pin tp Pin surgery


----------



## joneeboi

You're too kind, wgr73. I feel like I'm in the same situation since things picked up pretty quickly in school a year or two ago; I'm an electrical engineer. However, having just finished my last exam, I have a feeling I may need to occupy my time somehow.


----------



## joneeboi

Some of you may have noticed that I've been extremely absent from the audio scene for a long time. I'm somewhat making a comeback to the hobby, and I finally fixed one of the broken navigation frame on my website. I'm also going to be moving the diyMod and Carrie amp information to a new website, and I'll restart work I started on other projects in the new year. I'm leaving the starving student club and joining the legion of men with incomes and spare time on the weekends. Watch out, world.


----------



## joneeboi

Quote: 





ttl_ctrll said:


> I just wanna say that this whole thread has marked the beginning of my search for ultimate sound quality. Thanks johneeboi


 

 It's posts like these that get me out of bed every morning. You're very welcome. 
   
  Quote: 





burnwaygta4 said:


> As I understand it for ipod 5G do not need high-pass filter? Just replace the capacitor? I use the headamp amb mini3.


 
   
  diyMods to date have gotten by without the high pass filter. For safety's sake, it's best to do it with the filter as the capacitor will charge indefinitely without shunt resistance, possibly ruining your amp and/or headphones.
   
  Quote: 





i_djoel2000 said:


> anybody's done CF mod on ipod photo 4g? do we set the IDE-CF converter in master mode or slave mode? this is the converter i'm using: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CF-Compact-Flash-1-8-HDD-IDE-Adapter-IPOD-4G-/220560856772?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335a7396c4
> 
> my ipod photo keeps restarting once it's connected to pc, hence i cannot install the ipod firmware


 
   
  Did you ever find the answer? One user (vorax) mentioned bending the master/slave select pins down, but I'm not sure to what effect.
  
  Quote: 





psgarcha92 said:


> hey Guys
> is there no diymod for the nano 5th gen?
> if not, what should be done to find one?


 

 You should give it a shot. Check iFixit's teardown and try and piece the puzzle together.
   
  Quote: 





i_djoel2000 said:


> so i have an iriver h120 right now, and i wanna ask something
> 
> say i want to mod the line out. will the digital out still work? because the line out and digital out occupy the same output jack. this is my only iriver so i don't want to risk it unless i can confirm the validity of this mod. lol


 
   
  Any luck? Did you take the adventurous route and find out on your own? 
  
  Quote: 





erasertom said:


> Thanks to all who posted, have read almost all 2465 posts. Very informative.
> 
> Just started my own 30GB 5.5  imod with internal caps, been meaning to to this for a while.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Being meticulous, it could take up to two hours. I usually take about an hour from start to finish.
  
  Quote: 





normalwrong said:


> Hey guys,
> im looking for some capacitor to put on my LOD,
> i saw a guy using 220uF 25V Elna slimic II capacitor (Huge!!!)
> Do u guys if any suggestions if i wanna put the capacitor outside the dock?? which will bring be the best sounding?


 

 The limit is really up to you. We've seen massive boxes enclosing RCA jacks and 5" long capacitors, and the original diyMod used a box of Tic Tacs as an enclosure taped to the back of the iPod with a hole drilled in the back plate. Depends on how portable you want it to be.
   
  Quote: 





natx said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Hope I'm not too late for the party. I'm rather confused about the capacitors.
> If I can get my elna caps inside the iPod does that mean I don't need to have them on the LOD?
> ...


 

 You don't need the caps in the LOD. What's important is that there are capacitors in series with the signal path at all. The one set will do, so you don't need caps in the LOD.
   
  Quote: 





erasertom said:


> Awesome mod. Thought about it for a while, finally pulled the trigger.
> Just under 90 minutes from open to close. Burned in for 80+ hours.
> 
> Awesome, equals cd quality output with my lossless files on this mod.
> ...


 

 The CF conversion is really the cherry on top. Better sound quality, lighter iPod, greater battery life. Love it.
   
  Quote: 





klazzera said:


> hello folks, as the thread got too crowded, i didn't have chance to read all the pages. i have four clear questions:
> 
> on the ipod nano 1g,
> 
> ...


 

 1) You can use those caps. Electrically, they're more than sufficient. It depends on where you're putting them.
  2) Yes.
  3) You can just use the dock ground from the iPod, pins 1, 2, 15, 16, 29, and 30. We had one diyModder separately wire two grounds together in his diyMod, and then he spent a long time trying to figure out why it was malfunctioning constantly. :\
  4) Then what kind of diyMod are you making? That defeats the purpose. We're replacing the capacitors with our own higher quality ones.
  5) Depends on if you connect the amp to the 3.5mm jack. The dock and the iPod have the same analog signal output except that the dock is simply one with the volume maxed out. I'd say they're equivalent, but you may hear otherwise.


----------



## xoger

Hi guys,

 Does anyone know how to make a cable similar to aloaudios auto imod cable? I wish to make a cable that connects to my existing ipod cable in my car whilst maintaining ipod control functionality
   
  I have elna capacitors and am wondering which wires to solder these to.
   
  Would greatly appreciate any help
   
  Thanks


----------



## Zdechlak

@xoger
   
  Silver wire with teflon piping might be solution.
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/catalog/75
  But in fact i believe it will be hard to acquire ALO Audio quality cabel due to oxigen-free soldering and jack sealing process unless you have vacuum pump in your house and some sick robot-like soldering skills. 
   
  ____________________________________________________________
   
  Can somebody help me with choosing right capacitors for imoding ipod 5,5 gen??

 I've found that vishay is best solution since Black Gate is unavailable but i wonder how do it sounds? Anyone tried??
http://uk.farnell.com/vishay-bc-components/mal212853479e3/capacitor-47uf-6-3v/dp/1166614?Ntt=MAL212853479E3
   
  I am also thinking about this sanyo oscon cap and wonder how it sounds..
http://uk.farnell.com/sanyo/6sh47m/capacitor-47uf-6-3v/dp/9189238
   
  Thanks for help in advance


----------



## slidesear

I have a 5th Gen iPod that I would like to diyMod with internal caps. I understand that this would limit me to using CF (with an adapter.) Is anyone willing to do this for me?
   
  Please PM me...
   
  Thanks,
  -Gio


----------



## no_eye_dear

> Can somebody help me with choosing right capacitors for imoding ipod 5,5 gen??


 
  Never tried any of those caps in the 5G, I always used either the BG's or Elna's. I have manage to fit caps in a regular HD 5G but it's a tight squeeze.... 
  You don't need a big value here guy's if you are using an amp. 2 uf is plenty big enough, even if your amp has a low input impedance (10K). I tend to use 10uf 16V Elna silmic II or cerafines as they are easily available, cheap, tiny...... and sound great! These have a small case size of 5 x 11 mm, as small as the Hi-Q's and sound just as good.


----------



## HungryDaze

A friend of mine that doesn't speak english askes for your advice, fellow headfiers.  Could you plz tell us, how to install the Elna Silmic II capacitors correctly. Should my friend install them as he would install the Nichicon ES or not? As he tells me the Elna Silmic II are polar and the Nichicon ES are not. Is there any difference in the way these caps should be installed?


----------



## Pupuek

wgr73 said:


> Well guys, I have successfully modded another 5.5G (80GB) ipod, and it sounds great! No need to break in the caps that are in the dock, my other diyMod did that!!
> 
> Here are some shots of the guts: …(the flux was a mess is almost all pictures)
> 
> ...




I know this post is old but i was wondering if you can help me with the 5th picture. I can not seem to see/view it. 

Moreover, i would like to confirm a few things in doing the 5gen diymod:
1. Upon removal of the z caps near the wolfson chip, the wires connect to the lower terminals of each cap. Is this correct?
2. Upon removal of the resistors near the dock, the wires from the z caps will connect to the lower terminals. Is this correct?
3. For caps with polarity, does positive connect to the z cap terminals and the negative to the resistor terminals?

To put things in perspective, here is my current situation:
A. Removed the z caps
B. Removed the resistors (L2and L3) also their parnter tiny capacitors underneath them.
C. Put elna slimic 2 caps in the line of the wire (will have to check for polarity)
D. I'm currently getting audio from my dock line out but there is a lot of static and audio signal is very weak. (have to put the volume to 80-90% to hear/understand the music)

What could be wrong with my setup?

I'm really hoping some of the guys here will answer so I can finally enjoy my ipod. I have not yet finished back reading the entire thread but i'm roughly 30% here and there.

Thank you!


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote: 





hungrydaze said:


> A friend of mine that doesn't speak english askes for your advice, fellow headfiers.  Could you plz tell us, how to install the Elna Silmic II capacitors correctly. Should my friend install them as he would install the Nichicon ES or not? As he tells me the Elna Silmic II are polar and the Nichicon ES are not. Is there any difference in the way these caps should be installed?


 
   
  Hi
  Yes you need to ensure the positive lead is connected to the DAC/iPod side of the mod or LOD.
  The negative lead is then connected to the output
  Cheers


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote: 





pupuek said:


> I know this post is old but i was wondering if you can help me with the 5th picture. I can not seem to see/view it.
> Moreover, i would like to confirm a few things in doing the 5gen diymod:
> 1. Upon removal of the z caps near the wolfson chip, the wires connect to the lower terminals of each cap. Is this correct? YES, the pads nearest the DAC.
> 2. Upon removal of the resistors near the dock, the wires from the z caps will connect to the lower terminals. Is this correct? Lower pads of L2 & L3, (they are inductors).
> ...





> I'm really hoping some of the guys here will answer so I can finally enjoy my ipod. I have not yet finished back reading the entire thread but i'm roughly 30% here and there.





> Thank you!


 
  Hi mate see above, Also.... if you still have issues...
  To check the soldering at the cap, remove wire from L2 & L3, connect these to your next stage if you can. If it sounds good then you know it's an issue with these solder points. Pick up ground from the LOD shield.
   
  Hope you solve it buddy.


----------



## wgr73

Quote: 





no_eye_dear said:


> Hi mate see above, Also.... if you still have issues...
> To check the soldering at the cap, remove wire from L2 & L3, connect these to your next stage if you can. If it sounds good then you know it's an issue with these solder points. Pick up ground from the LOD shield.
> 
> Hope you solve it buddy.


 


  Thanks for answering the questions.  I just saw his PM.  Also the #5 photo was probably deleted from my photobucket.  I'll have to look for it.


----------



## wgr73

Quote: 





joneeboi said:


> You're too kind, wgr73. I feel like I'm in the same situation since things picked up pretty quickly in school a year or two ago; I'm an electrical engineer. However, having just finished my last exam, I have a feeling I may need to occupy my time somehow.


 


  Hahaha that's good to hear Jon!  Man time flies.  I was just watching some of the videos online about this mod and your thread. It's pretty crazy seeing the names on there!


----------



## joneeboi

If it weren't for the email notifications for PMs, I probably wouldn't be visiting head-fi. I've been busy with moving and setting up my new home, so I barely get to touch the computer. My gratitude goes out to those that help out the newbies, which is what I usually try to do when I'm around. Thanks for keeping the fire alive, fellas.


----------



## AnakChan

Hi all,

 I'm gonna take a risk and butcher my iPod 4G Photo. Following this, I'm going to redirect the lineout to the headphone jack instead of the dock. Not being able to find BG caps, I managed to pick up 2 pairs of different brands, the bigger SMG and smaller Elna. I'll probably give the Elna a shot first unless someone has some other advice.
   

   
  The question I have is that I don't really know if the SMG or the Elna's are polar or bi-polar. Is there anyway to tell? If they are polar, I understand that they work anyway however which end goes to the north end of R900/R903 and which end of the cap goes to the headphone jack?
   
  Thanks in advance!!
   
  P.S. I did do some searches but seems the Elna's at different from what I've found here. Mine are blue whereas the ones I found here are red so they're different I guess.
   
  18 hrs later EDIT: Never mind. I went ahead and used the Elna's. Had the short end to the mainboard/Wolfson whereas the long end to the headphone jacks.
  Pardon the dodgy soldering work, I've never worked with such small cramped components before but it worked !!


----------



## blackmoly

congrats on the imod guys.
   
  i do have 2 diyimod videos (60gig/ 80gig) and 2 diymod photos (60gig/ 20gig). caps are internal, i used 47uf NX - BG (rare black gates) on the ipod videos and 47uf m-caps for the photos.both are non polar.
   
  i do have 2 ipod videos yet to be imodded...lol


----------



## blackmoly

congrats on the imod guys.
   
  i do have 2 diyimod videos (60gig/ 80gig) and 2 diymod photos (60gig/ 20gig). caps are internal, i used 47uf NX - BG (rare black gates) on the ipod videos and 47uf m-caps for the photos.both are non polar.
   
  i do have 2 ipod videos yet to be imodded...lol
   
  my current portable set up:
   
  -diyimod ipod video (mundorf ag+ au wires/ blackgate NX BG 47uf non polar)
  - diy lod to rca (mundorf cable)
  -modified fiio e9 (upgared to sprague, ero, m cap, nichicon capacitors)
  - diy battery pack (12aa batt @ 2100mah/ 14.7vdc)
  - yamaha hp2 orthodynamic vintage headphone
   

   
  diymods & to be diymodded


----------



## no_eye_dear

> I went ahead and used the Elna's. Had the short end to the mainboard/Wolfson whereas the long end to the headphone jacks


 
   
  Hi buddy, sorry but IF they are polar then that's the wrong way around.
  The striped cover or short lead is always negative.
  You need the positive side to go to the motherboard so that it blocks DC.
   
  Easy way is to test it with a cheap Multimeter.
   
  Cheers
  Lee


----------



## AnakChan

Doh!! OK, I'll fix it after I move to my new apartment. Strangely though it still works (except for charging) which should be a different matter altogether. What would the symtoms be if it were polar and I soldered it the wrong way?
   
  Do I take the sign that since it works, it maybe it's bi-polar afterall?


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote: 





anakchan said:


> Doh!! OK, I'll fix it after I move to my new apartment. Strangely though it still works (except for charging) which should be a different matter altogether. What would the symtoms be if it were polar and I soldered it the wrong way?
> 
> Do I take the sign that since it works, it maybe it's bi-polar afterall?


 

 Hi mate
  Well don't take anything for granted, it may be non-polar but always be sure.
  There may not be an issue on your current set-up if the next component (amp) has DC blocking caps on the input (many do)
  However, if you were to plug it into another amp or maybe a mate's set-up...... it could be catastrophic.
   
  Happy modding
  Lee


----------



## normalife

Hi,
  I am thinking about install the capacitor inside the ipod, or inside the switchcraft plug,
  but no sure how to solder the +/- signal on the capacitor..
  Can anybody give me some hints?


----------



## fakcior

Negative lead goes to amplifier, positive to internal DAC.


----------



## normalwrong

Quote: 





fakcior said:


> Negative lead goes to amplifier, positive to internal DAC.


 


  So like the positive (the longer side) to the "Z" resister and the negative (shorter side) goes to the C2 & C3?


----------



## HeadFile

Hi,
   
  I wanna try this with internal caps in a 30gb 5g. I have all I need except a big CF card. So I want to know if i can do this:
   

   
  Then take the wires outside the ipod, solder some caps on, solder them in a minijack, and I have a redneck diymod? Yes?
   
   
   
  Thanks for any quick info on this! I have an eight hour busride tomorrow!


----------



## Cassadian

Any experience DIYmodders out there willing to do one on a 5.5g 80gb iPod and give instructions on how to install a compact flash card if ever needed?

 Also does it require a special LOD?


----------



## ericj

Quote: 





efn said:


> [size=x-large]*iRiver H140/120 DIY Mod*[/size]
> 
> And so I decided that my H140 gonna get the same treatment as my modded iPods.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Reviving an old thread because i'm not sure if this was clarified before, but the above picture is only half right. 
   
  Those caps are line-out and line-in. The headphone out on the h1x0 series has no capacitors in the signal path.


----------



## yodanyo

It seems like this thread is kind of dead but I figured I would ask for advice anyway. Does anyone have experience with using Blackgate PK capacitors? 220uf 4v.


----------



## blackmoly

my recent diyimod for a friend using
  mundorf silver/ gold wires
  internal 22uf/6.3v NX Black Gate


----------



## kenman345

Any chance you'd be willing to help out a fellow member with how you did the internal caps? I don't know where to route them. I wanna take my 30 gb iPod 5.5G and put a 128GB SSD and internal caps for ultimate portability. I haven't figured out any way to do this, but I know it has been done. 
   
  EDIT: oh and I would be wanting to accomplish this by use of an 80GB iPod video back, to allow the extra space. 
  
  Quote: 





blackmoly said:


> my recent diyimod for a friend using
> mundorf silver/ gold wires
> internal 22uf/6.3v NX Black Gate


----------



## tink97

Hello everyone, I am not sure if this is the right place to ask this but I am wondering does anyone know someone who can DIY an imod for me and at what cost.  I have the 5.5g ipod already I just am looking for a cheaper option other than red wine audio.
   
  Thank you 
   
  tink97


----------



## kenman345

I would be interested in finding someone to do this as well, I just want the caps internal, using a 80gb back panel to allow me to keep my hard drive in it/put in an SSD.
  
  Quote: 





tink97 said:


> Hello everyone, I am not sure if this is the right place to ask this but I am wondering does anyone know someone who can DIY an imod for me and at what cost.  I have the 5.5g ipod already I just am looking for a cheaper option other than red wine audio.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> tink97


----------



## no_eye_dear

Hi, I have a little time to do a few more mods, depends where you are and what version of the mod is required. I tend to do the tricky 'direct to LOD pin' version because I'm mad 
  I'm in the UK and have done quite a lot of these for friends. I recently did a 128GB CF direct to pins and sold it on here.
  I'm sure you can find willing modders in the US as well.....
  Cheers
  Lee


----------



## AnakChan

I'm wondering if anyone has found the diyMods (with Gen 4 Photo) to be somewhat bass light and shallow mid vocals? It seems treble forward and somewhat more sibilant. I'm using the Elna's 6.3V 47uF.
   
  I've got my line-out to the headphone jack instead of of the charging connector if it makes any difference. The only resistors I removed are on the mainboard L/R lineout.


----------



## yodanyo

I just completed my internal diymod with silmic iis. I changed out the HD with a Tarkan adapter and CF card (32gb). Switched out to a 80gb back panel and a 1300mah battery. 
   
  Now I know this kind of question has been asked to death but I just wanted to make sure.
   
  Right channel --> cap --> L2
  Left Channel --> cap --> L3
   
  Unfortunately, I lifted the L3 pad so I soldered the Left channel instead to the top circle (next to C74 lettering). 
   
  Question 1: Is it okay to have right channel go to L2 while left channel goes to that circle? or do they both have to be on the circles?

 Question 2: I've noticed that the bottom part of the front cover (right below the play button & around where the soldered connections would be) is getting warm. Is this normal or did I set up something wrong?
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## ChrisSC

Any successful iPhone mods? I tried to search the forum for this, but no luck


----------



## AnakChan

Quote: 





anakchan said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has found the diyMods (with Gen 4 Photo) to be somewhat bass light and shallow mid vocals? It seems treble forward and somewhat more sibilant. I'm using the Elna's 6.3V 47uF.
> 
> I've got my line-out to the headphone jack instead of of the charging connector if it makes any difference. The only resistors I removed are on the mainboard L/R lineout.


 
   
  Anyone? Do you find your diyMods bass-light?


----------



## yodanyo

I made a new one and it sounds great. Pics to be added soon. Remaking lod to include micro USB. 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## djpharoh

I plan to try to diymod a 5.5g iPod. However there's something I'm confused about from reading this thread and the tutorial stuff: Is a headphone amp absolutely necessary? I plan for my diymod to attach the connection straight to the existing headphone jack, what happens if I plug headphones straight into the jack? Do I still get sound? Can I still control volume from the wheel? Is it better than the stock or is absolute trash without an amp?


----------



## Donnyhifi

Quote: 





djpharoh said:


> I plan to try to diymod a 5.5g iPod. However there's something I'm confused about from reading this thread and the tutorial stuff: Is a headphone amp absolutely necessary? I plan for my diymod to attach the connection straight to the existing headphone jack, what happens if I plug headphones straight into the jack? Do I still get sound? Can I still control volume from the wheel? Is it better than the stock or is absolute trash without an amp?


 
  Hi djpharoh  
   
  You will need an amp with this since it mods the line out, the headphone jack remains unchanged. The amp will then allow you to control the volume output.


----------



## djpharoh

So on a 5.5g iPod you HAVE to go through the line out dock connection, you CAN'T go through the headphone jack? Cause from what I've read so far each player has 3 options: output through headphone jack, output through line out (with either internal caps or LOD caps) and drill through hole in case to for a pigtail which seems to bypass both. Am I wrong in thinking all options apply to all players used in this thread? And if it is in fact possible to connect the DAC directly to the existing headphone jack in the 5.5g iPod, what happens? Will I get this messy blast of loud sound with no volume control? Is it possible for an entire internal mod with no need for an LOD or an amp and still get a boost in sound quality, that leaves the functionality of the player perfectly intact?


----------



## kenman345

An amp boosts the power and volume of a signal. the diyMOD, no matter if you do it through the headphone jack or the Line Out needs an amp for volume control. If you use the click wheel for volume, you aren't bypassing the internal amp, which is the whole point of the diyMOD. Also, the 5.5 Gen iPod is a bit hard to do the internal caps and headphone out as the output. Never heard of it done, but the capacitors are extremely important. Don't leave them out or you may break something
  Quote: 





djpharoh said:


> So on a 5.5g iPod you HAVE to go through the line out dock connection, you CAN'T go through the headphone jack? Cause from what I've read so far each player has 3 options: output through headphone jack, output through line out (with either internal caps or LOD caps) and drill through hole in case to for a pigtail which seems to bypass both. Am I wrong in thinking all options apply to all players used in this thread? And if it is in fact possible to connect the DAC directly to the existing headphone jack in the 5.5g iPod, what happens? Will I get this messy blast of loud sound with no volume control? Is it possible for an entire internal mod with no need for an LOD or an amp and still get a boost in sound quality, that leaves the functionality of the player perfectly intact?


----------



## LosNir

kenman345 said:


> Also, the 5.5 Gen iPod is a bit hard to do the internal caps and headphone out as the output. Never heard of it done, but the capacitors are extremely important.




It's been done. You need an iFlash adapter so you have room for the capacitors.
http://www.tarkan.info/20090113/tutorials/modding-audiophile-meets-ipod-diymod/all/1

I plan to do that myself, but need to figure out how to make the wiring much shorter (I'm going to use 26 AWG UP-OCC Cryo-treated silver wire, extremely pricey).


----------



## kenman345

I thought you need thinner cables than that to do the diyMod best. (30?)
  Quote: 





losnir said:


> It's been done. You need an iFlash adapter so you have room for the capacitors.
> http://www.tarkan.info/20090113/tutorials/modding-audiophile-meets-ipod-diymod/all/1
> I plan to do that myself, but need to figure out how to make the wiring much shorter (I'm going to use 26 AWG UP-OCC Cryo-treated silver wire, extremely pricey).


----------



## LosNir

You're probably right, however I couldn't find a decent 30 awg silver cryo treated wire. Suggestions?


----------



## cmarti

Anyone offering this service in the US of A? I live in Orlando, Florida.


----------



## daveclarkvibe

Anyone ever try this mod for the 1st Gen iPod Touch?
   
  From what I can tell it has the same chip
   
  I would also be interested in info on other mods to this model.


----------



## AnakChan

Quote: 





daveclarkvibe said:


> Anyone ever try this mod for the 1st Gen iPod Touch?
> 
> From what I can tell it has the same chip
> 
> I would also be interested in info on other mods to this model.


 
   
  Go back to to the front, 1st post. There's links & guidelines to the models.


----------



## Dyaems

iModding nano 1g is great because if you broke it you can simply send back to apple and they will replace it with nano 6g =D


----------



## x3dnd3x

After much reading, I'm still a little confused.
   
  If I were to do a diymod on a Ipod Touch 1G, I can't access the HPO too? Have to use an amp to bypass the internal amp?


----------



## sluker

I have had the 80gb 5.5 sitting around since it first came out and it has been used well with RockBox. However, I think I want to try the DIYMOD including a larger SSD hard drive (preferably 240). This thread is impressive and I am planning to go through it, but is there a WIKI including a list of parts needed (HD's and caps...etc). Sorry if I missed it in the thread.
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## paulus germanus

There you go my friend: http://www.ualberta.ca/~jple/diyMod/

Also, some images that I'm sure will come in handy: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iywrzwrgcxe8u7e/Video%205%20plyta%20gl%C3%B3wna.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t1vb7r8tzve23sc/Video%205%20plyta%20gl%C3%B3wna2.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e6cnyvp7m21d6jh/p1020206h.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/knmjcmln46ooqaw/p1020203.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/edn5c7moajnp3ug/IMG_5689.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/awagetvsdy1ff4r/IMG_5683.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s14t23cfsd91lun/diymod80gb006qe1.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kothfvcg3fsxd6y/diymod80gb005fc2.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/het96pp25lvuf37/diymod80gb002bi9.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jt4hpj0s6qgi9sh/diymod80gb001km5.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6hl9ufg4ydfx9ih/20090918_imod_04.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lx3395hb6nqourx/20090918_imod_03.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mt7hsv21r0to4pv/20090918_imod_02.jpg

Good luck with your diyMod bro ^^


----------



## Bad and Quiet

delete


----------



## mosshorn

Mine went perfectly, and sounds great to boot. Thanks all to the great resource that this thread is.
   
  PS- If any US user have questions or want it done, I can help now


----------



## cmarti

Quote: 





mosshorn said:


> Mine went perfectly, and sounds great to boot. Thanks all to the great resource that this thread is.
> 
> PS- If any US user have questions or want it done, I can help now


 
  Where in Florida are you? I have a second iPod 5th generation, how much would you charge to do this?


----------



## Bad and Quiet

Somebody tried Nichican CP 47 phew to connect 6.3 v for ipod?
  Condensers are minute, and are entering for ipoda mini

  Nichican CP 47uf 6.3v vs Elna Cerafine 47uf 6.3v


----------



## Jason36

Hi Guys,
   
  I have a question with regards to DIYiModding an iPod 5.5g 80GB.
   
  I am looking to change the hard drive in this to a 120Gb SSD....at the same time and whilst the case is open I want to look at doing a DIY mod on this similar to the RWA iMod........not sure what is involved though.
   
  Is it just a case of bypassing the "Line Out" of the iPod with say Pure Silver Wire? or is there anything else that needs to be done?
   
  I know I also need to make up an iMod LOD as well which has the capacitors fitted to protect my portable amp. What do people suggest for the Capacitors, I know a lot of people use BlackGate Caps are there other good alternatives?
   
  Hope you can help / advise guys.
   
  Jay


----------



## macm75

Don't make two mods at once - do the SSD first and make sure it works first.  Then make the bypass mod.  If you have issues it's nice to know how it was caused.
  You are bypassing the ipods amplifier circuit from the A out of the DAC to the line out connections.  And yeah, go with pure silver - whatever is most expensive (and try a free strand of teflon coated wire from a cat5 cable and tell me if you notice the difference)
  For the caps try...
  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=black+gate+nx+alternatives


----------



## kenman345

I would actually advise doing it the other way around. Do the mod first, then the SSD upgrade. an SSD can potentially introduce new noise since it's all electric circuitry, so you might not know if the mod was done right if the SSD is introducing new noise. Then again, Maybe i'm wrong.
  Quote: 





macm75 said:


> Don't make two mods at once - do the SSD first and make sure it works first.  Then make the bypass mod.  If you have issues it's nice to know how it was caused.
> You are bypassing the ipods amplifier circuit from the A out of the DAC to the line out connections.  And yeah, go with pure silver - whatever is most expensive (and try a free strand of teflon coated wire from a cat5 cable and tell me if you notice the difference)
> For the caps try...
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=black+gate+nx+alternatives


----------



## calawoof

im thinking of modding my ipod 5.5 80 to SSD with internal CAPs and a internal amp. im still not sure how to fit everything in the 80G back housing yet. For the internal amp i was thinking of using CMOY, they can be very small. i know the CMOY is not the greatest of choice. but i am aiming at portability and powering IEMs only. please let me know if there are any problems with this route.
   
  my trail of thought are IPOD DAC ---> CAPs ---> CMOY amp ----> IEMs.
   
  basically just soldering two wires out of the DAC, instead of going to the LO, it's heading to CMOY amp.


----------



## kenman345

not sure how you'll pull that off. You'll need to modify the back cover for the use of volume control. I have come up with this idea as well. Good Luck
   
  I suggest going the route of the mSATA drives that have recently been discovered to work with an adapter in ipods, or with the CF card adapter in order to save space. Then do the mod and figure everything else out. Maybe you might be able to find some place to make you a slightly thicker back cover if necessary for this project. Please report back.
  Quote: 





calawoof said:


> im thinking of modding my ipod 5.5 80 to SSD with internal CAPs and a internal amp. im still not sure how to fit everything in the 80G back housing yet. For the internal amp i was thinking of using CMOY, they can be very small. i know the CMOY is not the greatest of choice. but i am aiming at portability and powering IEMs only. please let me know if there are any problems with this route.
> 
> my trail of thought are IPOD DAC ---> CAPs ---> CMOY amp ----> IEMs.
> 
> basically just soldering two wires out of the DAC, instead of going to the LO, it's heading to CMOY amp.


----------



## calawoof

yes.. the back housing would need a hole for the volume knob as well as the new PO. or using the existing PO 
   
  my part list:
Transcend 32GB 1.3-inch IDE ZIF SSD (MLC) - TS32GPSSD-M - #32PSSD $35
  or 
Super Talent 128GB MLC 1.3 inch IDE ZIF Solid State Drive $300
   
http://attachment.imp3.net/forum/201205/10/21440584e2eyz0eb64ey4f.jpg
  picture showing how much space you would save swapping to SSD
   
33uF 6.3V Elna Silmic II Electrolytic Capacitor
47uF 6.3V Elna Silmic II Electrolytic Capacitor
100uF 6.3V Elna Silmic II Electrolytic Capacitor
   
   going to playing with different caps to see what's the difference
   
  CMOY kit from ebay, BUT gonna swap out caps and resisters for better ones. laying down the caps for a lower profile.  
   
  + silver solders and wires, etcs


----------



## pcgo

Ok, this is a newbie DIY question, but I'm looking to upgrade my 5g with the 240GB Toshiba drive, and so I'm thinking about doing the iMod as well. My question is: if the external caps are just to control (stop?) the DC while letting the AC through, could I not simply use a Fiio L11 after doing the mod? The L11 already has the circuits for line out AND micro-USB charging, so my thinking is that the USB circuitry built into it *have* to account for any DC coming out of the iPod - and remove the need for external caps like the Black Gates?
   
  Or would this just end up blowing up some gear?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (There is a chance that the L11 is dependent on the internal caps which I would be circumventing with the iMOd, right?)
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## kenman345

the caps take the DC output and change it to AC. I have seen a few people go without the caps using amps with a protection capacitor on the input (RSA Mustang), but I do not know if you will see the benefits of the modification at it's full potential. It is also not advised to use the protection capacitors of an amp instead of actual purpose meant capacitors. The whole point of the capacitors in the amp are to protect the amp section from potentially harmful input. You'll get the most out of the modification if you use external or internal (internal to the iPod) capacitors as you'll be able to use it with more amps as well as get the most out of it. I freaked out when at a Head-Fi meet up I tried someones iMod with LOD and found out that the LOD didn't have capacitors inside, and the owner had no idea he needed capacitors. I was pissed beyond belief but nothing seems to have been damaged. I had tried his iMod with LOD on my amp, and then Vinny from RWA was there and had a iMod and LOD with capacitors in it and i tried it with my amp and it was actually compatible like it should have been. 
  Quote: 





pcgo said:


> Ok, this is a newbie DIY question, but I'm looking to upgrade my 5g with the 240GB Toshiba drive, and so I'm thinking about doing the iMod as well. My question is: if the external caps are just to control (stop?) the DC while letting the AC through, could I not simply use a Fiio L11 after doing the mod? The L11 already has the circuits for line out AND micro-USB charging, so my thinking is that the USB circuitry built into it *have* to account for any DC coming out of the iPod - and remove the need for external caps like the Black Gates?
> 
> Or would this just end up blowing up some gear?!
> 
> ...


----------



## pcgo

Thanks - that helps a tonne!
   
  Looks like I'll be getting some LOD parts from Qables or somewhere... Shopping, then soldering!


----------



## qusp

sorry kenman345, I have to correct several things in your post.

the caps dont change anything to AC, the AC is already there riding on top of a DC offset, the caps remove that DC, while presenting a High pass filter to the AC signal in combination with the amps input impedance. 

if you have DC blocking caps for sure on the amp you are using, its BETTER to have no caps, adding an extra cap, no matter how good it is, isnt ever going to improve the sound quality over having no cap. but be aware at meets, advise people that there are no caps and remember yourself ie. dont use it with other peoples gear unless you know its AC coupled.

@ pcgo: I dont know what you think blocks DC in a USB connection, not only does it not involve any kind of DC blocking mechanism, but it is a completely different signal path that uses completely different pins in the dock.


----------



## kenman345

Thanks for clearing it up. I didnt quite know. I was really concerned after not being told and the owner not even being aware they had a LOD without caps. they always used it with a RSA amp and it was an ALO LOD. I asked and he said it had caps in it. I tested my gear thoroughly immediately to make sure no damage was done to it. 
  Quote: 





qusp said:


> sorry kenman345, I have to correct several things in your post.
> the caps dont change anything to AC, the AC is already there riding on top of a DC offset, the caps remove that DC, while presenting a High pass filter to the AC signal in combination with the amps input impedance.
> if you have DC blocking caps for sure on the amp you are using, its BETTER to have no caps, adding an extra cap, no matter how good it is, isnt ever going to improve the sound quality over having no cap. but be aware at meets, advise people that there are no caps and remember yourself ie. dont use it with other peoples gear unless you know its AC coupled.
> @ pcgo: I dont know what you think blocks DC in a USB connection, not only does it not involve any kind of DC blocking mechanism, but it is a completely different signal path that uses completely different pins in the dock.


----------



## wullymc

Hi there,
   
  Seriously considering taking my 5th gen and doing the DIY mod.
   
  Wondering if anyone on here is from Ottawa and have done this mod.  I am not too concerned about the wiring it is just the inclusion of the caps.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote: 





calawoof said:


> im thinking of modding my ipod 5.5 80 to SSD with internal CAPs and a internal amp. im still not sure how to fit everything in the 80G back housing yet. For the internal amp i was thinking of using CMOY, they can be very small. i know the CMOY is not the greatest of choice. but i am aiming at portability and powering IEMs only. please let me know if there are any problems with this route.
> 
> my trail of thought are IPOD DAC ---> CAPs ---> CMOY amp ----> IEMs.
> 
> basically just soldering two wires out of the DAC, instead of going to the LO, it's heading to CMOY amp.


 
  I managed to fit a FiiO E5 in an 80GB with CF and DiYMod, pretty cool... not a brilliant amp by any means but great by the pool 
   
  Caps only need to be 10uf and 16v at most, I use 4.7uf Wima MKS2's and they beat any 'litic. You just need to use the CF adapter to give you room.
   
  Don't bother with SSD, use CF, you get more room to play with, same price and (from recent experience modding someone else's pod) not all SSD's fit!!!!


----------



## HumanSaurusRex

Hi guys! I own a 30GB Ipod 5g and just wonder if it is worth modding it? Usually used with a fiio e17.
  Is there a difference between 5g and 5.5g when it comes to modding?


----------



## kenman345

No sound difference. Only a limitation difference in terms of Storage size. 5th gen iPods cant handle more than 128gb HDD, 5.5g iPod up to 256gb HDD (AFAIK)
  Quote: 





humansaurusrex said:


> Hi guys! I own a 30GB Ipod 5g and just wonder if it is worth modding it? Usually used with a fiio e17.
> Is there a difference between 5g and 5.5g when it comes to modding?


----------



## mosshorn

Quote: 





kenman345 said:


> No sound difference. Only a limitation difference in terms of Storage size. 5th gen iPods cant handle more than 128gb HDD, 5.5g iPod up to 256gb HDD (AFAIK)


 
  This is right. The 60/80GB models (not sure about 30gb 5.5gen) have 64MB of cache as well. Maybe I just had a defective 5th gen 30GB, but it stuttered on FLAC. A lot.


----------



## kenman345

AFAIK the 60gb 5g iPod doesnt have 64mb of RAM. the 30gb and 80gb iPod 5.5g seem to both work with high capacity drives thoug. But I have only heard the 5.5g 80gb iPod as having 64mb of RAM
  Quote: 





mosshorn said:


> This is right. The 60/80GB models (not sure about 30gb 5.5gen) have 64MB of cache as well. Maybe I just had a defective 5th gen 30GB, but it stuttered on FLAC. A lot.


----------



## HumanSaurusRex

Quote: 





kenman345 said:


> No sound difference. Only a limitation difference in terms of Storage size.


 
   
No sound difference between 5g and 5.5g or modded and stock? 
Can somebody help me with choosing right parts for imoding ipod 5gen? Whats the state of the art mod?
Is there a pic tutorial available?
   
  Do I really need an amp to control the volume after modding my 5g?


----------



## kenman345

modded 5g and modded 5.5g will should the same if done the exact same way. Stock, both will sound the same....
   
  Check the first page for tutorials. The mod is pretty straight forward just requires some skills and confidence in your abilities. You 100% need an amp after modding. No point in modding if you arent going to use an amp. It wont have any benefit for you.
  Quote: 





humansaurusrex said:


> No sound difference between 5g and 5.5g or modded and stock?
> Can somebody help me with choosing right parts for imoding ipod 5gen? Whats the state of the art mod?
> Is there a pic tutorial available?
> 
> Do I really need an amp to control the volume after modding my 5g?


----------



## hypnoz

ipod 30 gb 5.5g diymod make mistake  

L6-L200 fell to pieces...

L2 - L3 if I transfer L6-L200 the Troubleshooting... ????

http://g1211.hizliresim.com/13/m/g251b.jpg


----------



## gij100

Hi all,
I'm not understanding well still the effect of different values of voltage and capacitance. 
Can someone please help me understand if a 25v 22uF cap would work internally in a diymod ( not worried about size), and if not, why?

Is there harm done if the voltage of the cap is higher than The "standard" i.e 10v/47uF or 16v/47uF

 , and likewise can the capacitance of the cap be higher or lower than 47uF without harm? ie 6.3v and 100 uF?

Regards,
Joe


----------



## ysho

gij100 said:


> Hi all,
> I'm not understanding well still the effect of different values of voltage and capacitance.
> Can someone please help me understand if a 25v 22uF cap would work internally in a diymod ( not worried about size), and if not, why?
> Is there harm done if the voltage of the cap is higher than The "standard" i.e 10v/47uF or 16v/47uF
> ...


The built in coupling SMD capacitors are approximately 10uf.
22uf will definitely work, people are using 0.47uf V-caps too but I didn't have a chance to try.
The voltage rating for caps is just the maximum voltage that it can take, in theory it doesn't affect audio quality as long as it takes 6.3v or above.


----------



## ysho

kenman345 said:


> modded 5g and modded 5.5g will should the same if done the exact same way. Stock, both will sound the same....
> 
> Check the first page for tutorials. The mod is pretty straight forward just requires some skills and confidence in your abilities. You 100% need an amp after modding. No point in modding if you arent going to use an amp. It wont have any benefit for you.


and a LOD with coupling caps as well


----------



## ysho

*My attempt to put capacitors inside a diyMod Mini 2nd Gen.*
   
  Since there isn't any space inside a Mini2G I decided to (brutally) remove the shell of a CF card to gain some room.



   
  First try with the cheaper parts: Vishay BC 038 22uf/100v and AMTRANS 0.4mm Gold-plated OCC copper wire



   
  The wiring in front. Make sure you take note for the following:
  1. The additional wiring is thin enough to stay among the chips, and does not run over any SMD components, otherwise the click wheel may damage the soldering plates when you slide the logical board back into the case, which means permanently destroying the logical board.
  2. Use insulating tapes to cover up the soldering spots. The back of click wheel is made of metal... you know what I mean.



   
  The hardest step... do it carefully.



   
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
  A little upgrade later by replacing everything with the even smaller BlackGate PK 33uf/35v, Mundorf 0.5mm Silver/Gold wire, Jenson 4% silver solder, and a 32GB CF
   









  ...and it definitely sounds great


----------



## Analoog

Someone mentioned that big size drives will make sound jitter in 30GB, 32MB RAM models. I have 5.5 30GB classic and I am planning to put 64GB CF or 128GB SSD into it, as it has 32MB of RAM do I have to worry about sound stutter or that isnt case if not using HDD?


----------



## zzffnn

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *no_eye_dear* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Originally Posted by *calawoof*
> 
> ...


 
   
  ^ no_eye_dear,
  I like your idea! Would you please show an internal photo of your Fiio E5 inside DIYMod? How do you get access to Fiio E5's function (e.g., volume, on/off and charging) when it is inside of DIYMod? Thank you!


----------



## no_eye_dear

Hey mate, it's not that difficult really!
  Take the case off the FiiO and drill the side of the iPod back panel with the corresponding on/off & volume button holes from the casing.
  Bags of room in there if you have done the CF Mod but I also took off all the connectors (mini USB & phone jacks)... then it's really slim (about 3mm)
  Put the buttons in the holes, then put some hot glue (or double sided tape?) on the back pane and line the FiiO up... then stick the FiiO's battery onto the back panel as well. 
  You could use the ipod battery for power but there is room so why not increase the capacity.
  They use the same battery & charge voltage so I just took a couple of wires from the FiiO's mini USB pads to the USB charge pins of the iPod.
  When you charge the iPod you charge the FiiO.
   
  Then I just wired from the DAC to the FiiO  input pads via a couple of Elna Silmic II's...then FiiO output pads straight to the LOD pins.
   
  If you've done the iMod it's pretty straight forward, you just need a dremel for the button holes.
   
  Oh yes, I didn't bother with the Bass Boost switch, I just left it 'ON'.
   
  I didn't take any photo's but I could open it up and take some if you want.
  Pretty straight forward though once you have the three holes drilled.... except for the iMod to the LOD pins... that's fiddly but the only way IMO.


----------



## zzffnn

^ Thank you! You clear instructions make it sound easy.
  As for output path, do you mind if I ask why you wire Fiio's output to LOD pins? I imagine it would not be too difficult to wire Fiio E5's output to the original headphone jack (with stock Apple circuit disconnected / removed)?
   
  Edit: Got reply from no-eye-dear in PM. Both output path will work. The output path to LOD is ergonomically better as Fiio's controls are located at the bottom of iPod.


----------



## thegrobe

I'm wanting to do this mod on my 5.5G Video...
   
  I have a question- I see different ideas posted about desoldering the "Z" caps and inductors.
   
  Some say get rid of them some say leave them there example:
  http://www.ualberta.ca/~jple/diyMod/guides/models/ipod5g.html
   
  What is the purpose of leaving them or removing them? advantages/disadvantages?
   
  Thanks


----------



## no_eye_dear

Without doubt, no matter what anyone ever says... If you want get the best out of the DAC you have to remove everything after it.
  Anything in the signal path (no matter where it lies) interferes with the signal. Electrons do not behave like water, they don't just follow a path and that's it.
  If you have anything 'off on a tangent' or in parallel, it will be part of the circuit regardless.
  The only way to ensure that you have done this on a multi-layer PCB is to bypass it completely or remove components and fully test the bridged circuit.
  Unfortunately not many people have access to the equipment needed to test the bridged circuit (for filters etc) and so the full bypass is the only true way to do this.
   
  OK it's fiddly and pain in the ar5e soldering to those raised LOD pins... but well worth it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Happy modding
   
  NB to ZZffnn's question, I removed the input caps off the FiiO (C2/C6) and also the inductive high pass filters (can't remember exactly which one's they are right now)


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





no_eye_dear said:


> Without doubt, no matter what anyone ever says... If you want get the best out of the DAC you have to remove everything after it.
> Anything in the signal path (no matter where it lies) interferes with the signal. Electrons do not behave like water, they don't just follow a path and that's it.
> If you have anything 'off on a tangent' or in parallel, it will be part of the circuit regardless.
> The only way to ensure that you have done this on a multi-layer PCB is to bypass it completely or remove components and fully test the bridged circuit.
> ...


 
  Thanks for the response. I definitely want the best out of the DAC that is the whole point, right?? So unsolder all the riff raff, got it.
   
  What is the general consensus on the best caps to use other than the elusive (and$$) black gates? I know it's somewhat subjective but that is what is getting me badly confused. I want to get the stuff in hand and see if I can do this.
  Thanks


----------



## no_eye_dear

See my method of bypass here
   
  Litics?... Elna Silmic II are the best IMO, that's whats in that album.
   
  Of course, if you want the best... then get the deeper back panel and use 4.7uf Wima MKS2 film caps if you can find them.


----------



## junkers

Where is everyone getting their caps? I know that you should get different ones based on what sound signature you want, but is there a trustworthy website to get them from? All I can find are ones from China w/ shady websites.


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





no_eye_dear said:


> See my method of bypass here
> 
> Litics?... Elna Silmic II are the best IMO, that's whats in that album.
> 
> Of course, if you want the best... then get the deeper back panel and use 4.7uf Wima MKS2 film caps if you can find them.


 
  Wow! That is fantastic help! I really like the idea of soldering directly to the audio out pins. It looks like that is the 3rd and 4th pin there, correct? Which is left/right? Sorry if this has been covered before. 
   
  So let me get this straight, remove Z caps, Remove L2 and L3 inductors...Do you also remove the little capacitors by L2  and L3? Then route wires to the audio out pins.
   
  This is for 5.5 Video
   
  Thanks a million


----------



## thegrobe

No eye deer-
  Wait a minute...If you connect directly to the dock outputs, as in your link, are you breaking the connection before that from the board under the dock? Looks like it in your pics 
   
  If this is the case, can you skip fiddling with removing those L2/L3 etc bits on the board? Since you are bypassing that signal alltogther. Correct me if I'm wrong. This certainly looks like the best way to go if this is the case


----------



## no_eye_dear

Hi buddy
  Yes you bypass the entire board so you only need to remove the zcaps to give you access to the solder pads.
  take your wires directly from the pad closest to the DAC > caps > FiiO (if you want to) > output pins.
  You do lift them off the board as well so that the path is completely isolated from any of the filters and track on the board.
  OK it's a bit fiddly to lift them and solder to but I normally take them out completely solder the wire on then slide them back in before cleaning with isopropanol and epoxy them in place.
   
  The new caps do not need to be very large, anything over 2uf should be ample but just to ensure there is no phase shift in the Bass use a slightly larger value. You can get the Wima MKS2 in 4.7uf and is small enough to fit in there even with the FiiO inside (it's only 3 mm thick when you remove the unwanted connectors.
  Of course, if you decide to use the Elna Silmic caps they are much smaller even in 22uf 10V form, so get them or the 10uf 16v (plenty big enough)
   
  Happy modding
  Lee


----------



## thegrobe

Wow this is awesome thank you. I don't plan on doing the Fiio inside, this will be going line out to a Leckerton UHA-6S mkII. (I want to trryyyyy not to damage that with the wrong output voltage, etc)
   
  I can find the Wima 4.7f in 50v/10% and 63v/5%....what does the different voltage ratings do, how do they affect things? I see the elna silmic are 10 and 16v..why such a wide variance there? What's preferable? I am on the lookout for anything over 2uf as you said, got it


----------



## Analoog

When removing Z caps, the regular iPod's headphone jack remains completely untouched?


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote: 





analoog said:


> When removing Z caps, the regular iPod's headphone jack remains completely untouched?


 
  Yep


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Wow this is awesome thank you. I don't plan on doing the Fiio inside, this will be going line out to a Leckerton UHA-6S mkII. (I want to trryyyyy not to damage that with the wrong output voltage, etc)
> 
> I can find the Wima 4.7f in 50v/10% and 63v/5%....what does the different voltage ratings do, how do they affect things? I see the elna silmic are 10 and 16v..why such a wide variance there? What's preferable? I am on the lookout for anything over 2uf as you said, got it


 
   
  You only need a low voltage caps but film caps inherently have quite large voltage ratings.
  The values you're looking for here are SIZE  You need it to fit inside the iPod and the 4.7uf 50V is 7.2mm square.
  Of course you could go for the larger caps... the 10uf may even fit as they are still 7.2mm in one dimension and there is lots of room laterally inside a CF mod.
  But like I said... anything over 2uf is good enough so 4.7uf is as high as you 'need' to go.
   
  Do the CF mod and then decide which one's you want to squeeze in.
Look here for the options.


----------



## thegrobe

Alright...great info here. I think I'm ready to get this going. I will post up hopefully successful results soon!


----------



## Analoog

Could anyone give me a link with international shipping for recommended Caps used in DIYmod? Some use resistors aswell, should I?


----------



## cogsand gears

Quote: 





no_eye_dear said:


> Hey mate, it's not that difficult really!
> Take the case off the FiiO and drill the side of the iPod back panel with the corresponding on/off & volume button holes from the casing.
> Bags of room in there if you have done the CF Mod but I also took off all the connectors (mini USB & phone jacks)... then it's really slim (about 3mm)
> Put the buttons in the holes, then put some hot glue (or double sided tape?) on the back pane and line the FiiO up... then stick the FiiO's battery onto the back panel as well.
> ...


 
  Wow! You truly are the audio wizard! Great work mate


----------



## scootsit

Quote: 





analoog said:


> Could anyone give me a link with international shipping for recommended Caps used in DIYmod? Some use resistors aswell, should I?


 

 Mouser ships internationally. I don't mean to be rude or anything, but that question sounds like you're pretty unsure. Reflowing surface mount parts is really hard, and there's a good chance you'll lift some pads.


----------



## DMinor

I am wondering how many of you who have soldered the wires to the tiny pins at the LOD. Man I tried and it's mission impossible for me!


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote: 





dminor said:


> I am wondering how many of you who have soldered the wires to the tiny pins at the LOD. Man I tried and it's mission impossible for me!


 
  There's not many who give it a go... I've done plenty now but the 1st one's were a challenge to say the least.
  In the early part of this thread there was one other guy who gave it a go... please don't ask me to find the post


----------



## thegrobe

Well, today I got the mod done. HOLY SMOKES it's a success. First off, thanks to those who gave me advice, especially Obi Wan Ke-No-Eye-Deer, Jedi Master of the diy imod. I asked this guy a bunch of ridiculous questions about wires and caps and everything else and he gracefully answered every one. I can be especially irritating because I can't just take instructions like "solder this to that" ... I need to know WHY.
   
  So anyway - Thanks a bunch. It plays, syncs, and charges.
   
  I have the Tarkan adapter in there with a 64 gb CF card. I managed to fit two Elna 4.7uf FILM caps in there, and wired directly to the line out pins. This is squeezed into a 30 gig back....but it's not quite perfect...
   
  Those are some big caps, and my initial "dry fitting" they fit and the iPod closed up fine. BUT in real life I guess things are a bit different on the final assembly and the end of the back case where the caps are is juuuust a bit shy of closing all the way. You kind of have to squeeze the case just a bit to get the dock connector on so it's going back to the drawing board for either a little tweaking of the cap position/ wire leads or a deep, 80 gig back and larger capacity battery. Heck, maybe then I can fit the 10uf film caps in there with the deep back muu whuaah ha ha! 
   
  Here's a pic, I know the wiring isn't too tidy, but as I mentioned it's coming apart again soon so that will be addressed later. Also sorry not the best pics.
   
   

   

   
   
   
  So I am going to share a pointer to help anyone trying the direct to dock pins method - Have a dead iPod or iPod dock available to "harvest" some extra pins from the female dock. The pins are extremely frail, fussy, and easy to lose. Once separated from the board they pull right out of the dock. It really isn't that hard to remove them. The ones on the iPod you you are working on - you will want to desolder while getting an xacto blade tip behind them and they pop right off. 
   
  Any "spares" you get from a donor you can just use that xacto knife blade to wildly cut them off the board then pull them from the dock with small tweezers. 
   
  You will want to solder your wires to the pins while they are removed from the dock. If you look at the dock, counting from the left, you are operating on pins #3 and 4. #3 is right signal, #4 is left signal.  On pin #3 you will want to solder your wire kind of on the left side of it, on pin #4 solder kind of on the right. The first time I soldered the wires centered on the pins and just the thin film of solder on each was thick enough that when the pins were back in the dock they were touching intermittently. The area here is soooo small that you want to verify individual pin isolation and continuity (as needed) with a multimeter.
   
  When the pins go back into the dock they are all wacky and fussy as well so you want to make sure they are seated properly in their grooves on the other side of the dock and hit them with a dab of hot glue to secure them. 
   
  Well, how is the sound? I have just listened the time it took me to post this so I don't have any great comparisons, but it certainly sounds _different_. Going through my Leckerton UHA-6S MKII / 8610 it's quite good. My best IEM's (Heir 4.Ai) Are all out of service because I am selling them, boxed up ...Ah, I can't wait for my customs to arrive. What was I saying?
   
  Back on track - but I am using the 3.Ai and I can say the sound is very good. Overall, less murky and dark then the stock iPod sound. Treble is better presented. Bass seems about the same. Just more vivid presentation of everything.


----------



## DMinor

Job well done and Congrats thegrobe.
   
  I do have a practice board unfortunately the pins at the lod are cast together with plastic and non removable. So I guess I have to practice on the real one when I get all the parts and tools. Yeah Lee is very helpful and kind to answer all my questions on this. Without his help, I am doomed to fail on those pins. I am not sure if I will get the job done, but at least I have a chance with Lee's help. I will be working on a 60gb model so there should be enough room for the caps.
   
  Thanks for sharing your experience and enjoy your diymod.


----------



## icefalkon

Great job bro!!! Merry Christmas to you guys!


----------



## kuko61

Has anyone a _jERiCOh's simple Excel corner frequency calculator_, that is mentioned on the old first page?
   
  A one question about capacitors voltage. Capacitance i calculate, but which capacitor voltage can I use in imod? On what depends?
  Thanks


----------



## jERiCOh

The voltage for the capacitors is the VDC you want to block by the use of the capacitors. So anything above 4.2 volts ( you might get that if there is a short somewhere) is a safe value.


----------



## thegrobe

kuko61 said:


> Has anyone a _jERiCOh's simple Excel corner frequency calculator_, that is mentioned on the old first page?
> 
> A one question about capacitors voltage. Capacitance i calculate, but which capacitor voltage can I use in imod? On what depends?
> Thanks



I am also very curious about what different uf ratings of the capacitors make to the sound. I realize that you should match this with the input impedance of the amp....but.. 

in layman's terms, if using the same amp, no other variables, what audible difference will there be using a 4.7uf cap vs. a 47uf cap? does the higher # (47) raise or lower the 3db point? sorry, I am not good at math.

does the different value greatly affect bass response, or anything else? thank you!


----------



## qusp

jericoh said:


> The voltage for the capacitors is the VDC you want to block by the use of the capacitors. So anything above 4.2 volts ( you might get that if there is a short somewhere) is a safe value.




incorrect, it must be rated for the entire voltage ie. the DC offset + signal voltage swing




thegrobe said:


> I am also very curious about what different uf ratings of the capacitors make to the sound. I realize that you should match this with the input impedance of the amp....but..
> in layman's terms, if using the same amp, no other variables, what audible difference will there be using a 4.7uf cap vs. a 47uf cap? does the higher # (47) raise or lower the 3db point? sorry, I am not good at math.
> does the different value greatly affect bass response, or anything else? thank you!




raising the cap to 47uf from 4.7 will lower the 3db point and the point intermodulation starts by a decade (for example 4.5Hz vs 45Hz) if driving the same input impedance, I cannot tell you what the numbers will be without the impedance. how audible it will be will depend on how low that 3db point is, whether it ends up in the audible band and whether your headphones are capable of low distortion down that low anyway.


----------



## jERiCOh

Quote: 





qusp said:


> incorrect, it must be rated for the entire voltage ie. the DC offset + signal voltage swing


 

 DC offset + AC signal is lower than the source


----------



## thegrobe

qusp said:
			
		

> .
> raising the cap to 47uf from 4.7 will lower the 3db point and the point intermodulation starts by a decade (for example 4.5Hz vs 45Hz) if driving the same input impedance, I cannot tell you what the numbers will be without the impedance. how audible it will be will depend on how low that 3db point is, whether it ends up in the audible band and whether your headphones are capable of low distortion down that low anyway.



Thanks..this is exactly the info I was looking for- that raising the cap value lowers the frequency in which bass roll-off begins. 
If using TOO high a (uf) value here, is it possible to lower the point too much- enough that you then start to affect the ability of the cap to effectively block DC output voltage? (the whole reason the capacitors are used)


----------



## no_eye_dear

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Well, today I got the mod done. HOLY SMOKES it's a success. First off, thanks to those who gave me advice, especially Obi Wan Ke-No-Eye-Deer, Jedi Master of the diy imod. I asked this guy a bunch of ridiculous questions about wires and caps and everything else and he gracefully answered every one. I can be especially irritating because I can't just take instructions like "solder this to that" ... I need to know WHY.


 
  Well done matey, sorry I missed your post, been partying hard.... 
   
  That's a tidy job, especially as it's your first, well done.
   
  Difficult to tell but the cap leads may be sitting up on the top of adapter's foam pads....
   
  Don't worry about the cap value too much, 4.7uf is more than enough, even if you take into account a low 10K  input impedance of the following amp.
  Again, cap voltage is not going to factor, you can't buy 'audio grade' caps with a max voltage low enough that will fit in there....
   
   


> Thanks..this is exactly the info I was looking for- that raising the cap value lowers the frequency in which bass roll-off begins.
> If using TOO high a (uf) value here, is it possible to lower the point too much- enough that you then start to affect the ability of the cap to effectively block DC output voltage? (the whole reason the capacitors are used)


 
  Nope, ALL capacitors will bock DC up to their rating.


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





no_eye_dear said:


> Well done matey, sorry I missed your post, been partying hard....
> 
> That's a tidy job, especially as it's your first, well done.
> Difficult to tell but the cap leads may be sitting up on the top of adapter's foam pads...
> ...


 
  Thanks, my man...
  If by this you mean why it wouldn't close?...
""Difficult to tell but the cap leads may be sitting up on the top of adapter's foam pads...""
   
  Yeah, I moved things around a bit and then it closed up fine. However, the more I listen I am not liking something in the sound, there is a weirdness in the midrange and some affect on the lower end that isn't working for me so I am going to pull those film caps and try the Silmic electrolytics with a slightly higher rating. Maybe I am getting some bass roll-off and also maybe I just don't like the sound of the film caps...
   
  It seems most that try those electrolytics are happy with the result so I'm going to give it a shot. I will report back after giving them a try.
   
  Do you have any opinion on sound differences between electrolytics and film?
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## no_eye_dear

Hey buddy,
  Yeah, I was referencing the closing problem.
  Sound differences are way more subtle and hard to nail down but the film caps can be more bass heavy if anything.
  If you are getting anything 'strange' I would put it down to dry solder joints or wire routing rather than cap type.... certainly isn't roll-off, maybe even cap placement?
  Try opening the back and moving the caps onto the top of the adapter away from the transformers/inductors
  But on a more subtle note...I have noticed over the years that film caps do seem to burn in though, I don't really follow the logic but they certainly do change over the first few hours.
   
  EDIT: When you put the pins back in they didn't touch the PCB base pads?.. just checking...


----------



## thegrobe

Hey, thanks for the reply.
  I did notice a very significant (to me) ..(and positive) change in the film caps after just a few hours.
   
  I took it apart yesterday, actually, and changed the caps to Silmic II's and placed one in the space next to the CF card, and the other between the CF card and battery. Also moved the wires around a bit. I already find the sound more preferable - smoother...perhaps the location of the caps or wire routing was an issue?
   
  I am pretty certain the joints aren't dry - but that would certainly cause problems. Anyhow, the new configuration is more preferable.
   
  Pretty sure the joints are good, solid, and shiny, not dry. The pins are certainly isolated from the pcb and locked in place with some hot glue. I am going to do more messing around with this of course,  so I will again try the film caps moved away from where they were next time around and give it a go. Really, this is all fun for me just messing about with it. 
   
  One other thing: just being curious, I measured the line out and noticed a little touch of DC leakage - Never tested this with the film caps. A stock 6 gen Ipod I have around I get a reading also of about .005 volt DC on the line out, the mod gets up to about .012 give or take. Is this a concern? I checked the headphone out on my amp and get nothing - so there is no DC getting through to headphones but ....thought it worth asking


----------



## no_eye_dear

Yeah, it's strange how those film caps come to life over a few hours.. still my fave!

 Quote:


> One other thing: just being curious, I measured the line out and noticed a little touch of DC leakage - Never tested this with the film caps. A stock 6 gen Ipod I have around I get a reading also of about .005 volt DC on the line out, the mod gets up to about .012 give or take. Is this a concern? I checked the headphone out on my amp and get nothing - so there is no DC getting through to headphones but ....thought it worth asking


 
  Interesting one that... you obviously have the caps the right way around or you would be getting 1.5V 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Do you measure it when connected to your amp? Is there a chance of some bias current coming off the front end of the amp?
  Then again, a millivolt or two is pretty damn insignificant anyway....


----------



## thegrobe

no_eye_dear said:


> Interesting one that... you obviously have the caps the right way around or you would be getting 1.5V
> Do you measure it when connected to your amp? Is there a chance of some bias current coming off the front end of the amp?
> Then again, a millivolt or two is pretty damn insignificant anyway....



yeah, to be honest I don't even know if I'm measuring it properly. I'm just using cheap multimeter and measuring across the line out ground and either left or right signal when it's playing and not connected to an amp. The measurement rises and falls a tad as it plays.

 a bit of googling came up with some caps can leak some DC. like I mentioned, I'm not too concerned, there is no reading by the time the signal passes through my amp, maybe it's absorbing that little trickle. Just curious. 

I'm going to switch back to the film caps in a week or two and try placing them in a different part of the case (to see about my aforementioned "weirdness“)...I'll see if I get any reading off those.


----------



## mrfan

Today I finally opened my ipod 5g and asked somebody to help me do the mod on it. We just rewired from L2-L3 to the empty dots below c84 and c85. We didn't remove anything. 
  I have several capacitators I want to try, but my idea of fitting them inside a dock is a no-go, because they are too bulky. I don't know how people put the ELNAs inside a dock. 
   
  Anyway, I have the ELNAs 47uf5v, NIchicon Muse 47uf50v, Nichicon Muse BP 47uf25v, ROE 47uf10v and a couple of Sprague VQ 0.1uf 100v. The only ones that might fit inside the dock are the ROE. 
   
  While I try to figure out how to make a dock for the Nichicon and the VQs, can I use the LOD with my Fiio e17 as it is now, or I risk to damage something?


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





mrfan said:


> Today I finally opened my ipod 5g and asked somebody to help me do the mod on it. We just rewired from L2-L3 to the empty dots below c84 and c85. We didn't remove anything.
> I have several capacitators I want to try, but my idea of fitting them inside a dock is a no-go, because they are too bulky. I don't know how people put the ELNAs inside a dock.
> 
> Anyway, I have the ELNAs 47uf5v, NIchicon Muse 47uf50v, Nichicon Muse BP 47uf25v, ROE 47uf10v and a couple of Sprague VQ 0.1uf 100v. The only ones that might fit inside the dock are the ROE.
> ...


 
  I'm a bit confused..did you pick up the signal from the "Z" caps by the DAC? or just from L2/3? Could you post a picture of what you did? Best to bypass everything for a pure signal
   
  I have recently been experimenting with a bunch of different caps and have found wima polyester caps good and wima polypropylene even a bit better (but they are way too bulky - sounds great though!) As far as the electrolytics you have, the 47 uf are way way  more than sufficient. Don't use the .1 uf. Not enough. Here's why:
   
  There are two ways to look at the calculation to choose a capacitor. There is the -3db point (corner frequency) which as a bare minimum should be under 20 hz. Then there is an optimal frequency, which helps rule out any phase distortion, and this is around a 10 times higher frequency, which you also want to keep under 20 Hz but it isn't as important. So assuming you have 10k resistance in your amp, to get a -3db point under 20hz, you want a .8 or higher uf rating...For the optimal value, which keeps any phase irregularities under 20 hz, you want a 8uf capacitor this will give you a -3db of about 2Hz. 
   
  Any higher input impedance on your amp (50k, etc) changes this capacitor value needed (to a lower uf rating)...so in any circumstances, 1 uf is minimally sufficient, 8 uf is preferred. Anything higher that 8uf, in any configuration is complete overkill. 
   
  I wouldn't try using it with no caps.. you could damage your amp or headphones. .If you were dying to try you could run it through your amp and use a multimeter to make sure the amp is perhaps blocking any DC from going to the headphones, but I don't know if this may damage the amp. Better just to do it right.


----------



## TorchVert

Hi, I'm planning on doing a Diymod to a 5G iPod video that's served me well for years. I've been over the thread here, and have no fear about the soldering involved (my first job out of school involved soldering components under a microscope for use in classified military hardware) but I'm a total noob when it comes to actual iPod mods (never even cracked one for a battery swap)
   
  I'd like to outline what I have in mind and see if any of the experienced Diymodders here can see any holes in the plan.
   
  What I have planned is to convert the iPod to CF first. I have Tarkan's adapter enroute, along with the rest of the parts to do that. I've also got a couple varieties of quality caps on order, plan is to use the extra space freed by the CF mod to fit these internally.
   
  Now, my understanding is with the caps installed internally, a regular dock connector should work. I frequently use the iPod in my car audio system, with the Kenwood dock/control cable for their front end units. Would like to maintain that compatibility. I did come across one thread (elsewhere, not on this board) swearing that doing the diymod would disable the ability to use external control from a head unit. I don't understand this, as no mods are done to that section of the dock connector, and unless the iPod is reloaded with non-stock firmware (Rockbox), I can't see why the control feature shouldn't function correctly.
   
  Would greatly appreciate any comments/insight.


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





torchvert said:


> Would greatly appreciate any comments/insight.


 
  I don't see why the mod would affect the remote operation. Using rockbox, however, definitely would kill that functionality. Of course, I may be wrong but you are only affecting the flow of the audio path through different (better than stock) capacitors. Whatever pins/circuits operate the remote functions are untouched. 
  That's my guess, at least


----------



## mpawluk91

I haven't read through this thread but does anyone imod the 5.5 and put the black gates inside it?


----------



## AnakChan

Funny...I was always under the impression that the 5.5's didn't have enough space inside to fit in caps (unless the HDD is replaced with a CF or some other smaller storage.


----------



## Hard Head

Quote: 





anakchan said:


> Funny...I was always under the impression that the 5.5's didn't have enough space inside to fit in caps (unless the HDD is replaced with a CF or some other smaller storage.


 

 You are correct.  Using a 1.8" hdd (like the original) doesn't allow for the caps inside the case (hence, the special LODs with caps in them to complete the mod).  Doing a CF or mSATA mod leaves plenty of room for internal caps, and the flexibility of using _any_ dock or LOD with the unit.


----------



## kuko61

Black Gates caps are probably large. But small capacitors can be put inside iPod 5.5 with 1,8" 8mm thick HDD.
http://forum.avmania.e15.cz/viewtopic.php?p=8858205#p8858205
  They are probably this http://www.ebay.com/itm/251009455884 or this http://www.ebay.com/itm/251009455611 caps.


----------



## mikele

Hi,
   
  this is my first post here and my english is not so good to understand all this thread replies.
  So i'm asking for help and some questions regarding the DiY mod of my 5 gen iPod.
   
  1) Do I need to remove capacitors and inductors? Is the final quality depends on this?
   
  2) Is correct soldering my wires from the south ends of the “Z" caps to the bare circular metal pads south of the inductors/capacitors pair (the last 2 pads below L3 line)?
   
  3) I've tarkan CF and I can put internal capacitors into the ipod case. Where do I solder these capacitors???
   
  Thank you very much,
  Michele


----------



## elbandito

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  just to re-confirm my options:
  
  if I decided to go
*A. * Z Pads > Caps > Pin Out 3 (Right Signal) & 4 (Left Signal)
   
   

   
  Blue: Left Signal
  Green: Right Signal
   
1. only need to remove the zcaps to give you access to the solder pads
2. iPod dock available to "harvest" some extra pins from the female dock
   
  does it means that i buy another dock to harvest the pins?
  will this kind of dock suffice?
   
   

   
   
   
   
  i have to pry open & harvest the females in the red circle right?
   
   
  to remove the pins from the ipod board, it needs to be desoldered from the board? or desolder and cut them loose using xacto blace tip? and when inserting, does it suppossed to be soldered back to the board?
   
  3. clean the pins with isopropanol, and then slide them back in and epoxy them in place.
   
   
*B. *using solder pad beneath (south end) L2 & L3
   
  1. Remove The Z Caps north of DAC
  2. Solder wire from DAC > Caps > Solder Pad
   

   
   
  top: Left Signal
  Bottom: Right Signal
  if i chose to solder on the empty solder pad like the picture, is it okay to not desoldered L2, L3 & C84, C85?
   
  or is it best to not desolder L2, L3 & C84, C85, and solder the wires to the L2 & L3? like :
   
   

  L2: Right Signal
  L3: Left Signal
   
  -------------------------------------------------------
   
  is it that correct?
   
  so if i decided to build my own LOD, does it still have the necessity to solder the 68K resistor for both methods?
  and does the Fat/Thick back ipod enclosure compatible with the 30gb ipod 5th frame & front enclosure?


----------



## thegrobe

Hey, let my try to answer some of these questions, responses are in bold:
  Quote: 





elbandito said:


> just to re-confirm my options:
> 
> if I decided to go
> *A. * Z Pads > Caps > Pin Out 3 (Right Signal) & 4 (Left Signal)
> ...


 
*I hope this helps!*


----------



## elbandito

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Hey, let my try to answer some of these questions, responses are in bold:
> *I hope this helps!*


 
1 couple more quick question, so that means if i use method *A, *desolder Z only, and don't touch the others (L2, L3, C84, C85)?
after re-inserting the pin, does it necessary to solder the pin to the board? or you don't have to since you've already soldered the cable, and just glue it to the board?
   
  your reply meant a lot for me, forgot to ask a close ups of the pins, but you attached it anyway! 
   
  thanks mate


----------



## thegrobe

Yes, if you use method "A" direct to the line out pins, you need to only desolder the Z caps. The L2/C84 etc etc can stay put. 

Those Z pads feed directly from the DAC. You are then sending that signal through better caps and directly out of the ipod and to your amp..nothing else in between. So it wouldn't matter if that other stuff was on the board, get it?

Also, please do yourself a favor and get a fairly decent LOD. I tried a Fiio L9, a BTG and also an Eace LOD. Without starting a cable debate, I will say that the L9 sucked. It choked off whatever benefit the mod made. So spend and extra $30 or so on a cable made of decent materials.


----------



## elbandito

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Yes, if you use method "A" direct to the line out pins, you need to only desolder the Z caps. The L2/C84 etc etc can stay put.
> 
> Those Z pads feed directly from the DAC. You are then sending that signal through better caps and directly out of the ipod and to your amp..nothing else in between. So it wouldn't matter if that other stuff was on the board, get it?
> 
> Also, please do yourself a favor and get a fairly decent LOD. I tried a Fiio L9, a BTG and also an Eace LOD. Without starting a cable debate, I will say that the L9 sucked. It choked off whatever benefit the mod made. So spend and extra $30 or so on a cable made of decent materials.


 
  yes, I'm thinking the same, making a custom LOD with silver wire, but some of the store like *this* says the package includes a 68K resistor, so I guess I will use the LOD without the resistor.
   
  also a bit interested about the high pass filter dc coupling caps, i think there's a space for electrolytic paralleled with (small) film caps inside, especially if I use the thick back, something like :
   
Elna RFS Silmic II 47uf 6.3V / Nichihon ES 47uf 6.3V & Genuine "VitaminQ", Paper-In-Oil, Sprague Part #196P22491S4, as it says here:
   
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



Under certain scenarios, a small bypass cap applied in parallel across a large electrolytic can cure the issues of using an electrolytic in the signal path: high end harshness and lack of resolution. High end harshness and lack of resolution occurs in almost all electrolytics: more so in "power" caps versus "boutique" caps, but to a certain extent in both.
   
They also help the sound of many of the boutique caps and pair very well with the Nichicon ES's, for instance, a favorite electrolytic cap for the signal positions on the MAX (CA2 and CA7). Pairing the Wimas with the ES's (or Nichicon Muse KZ's if case height is not an issue) 
   
Source


   
  but of course I haven't yet found the dimension spec, so can't sure whether it fits or not, but in a horizontal position, perhaps there's some space? ... what do you think? or am I just imagining things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  additional information, I will feed the LOD to the O2 headamps, which will make them stacks of DIY ... lol


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





elbandito said:


> yes, I'm thinking the same, making a custom LOD with silver wire, but some of the store like *this* says the package includes a 68K resistor, so I guess I will use the LOD without the resistor.
> 
> also a bit interested about the high pass filter dc coupling caps, i think there's a space for electrolytic paralleled with (small) film caps inside, especially if I use the thick back, something like :
> 
> ...


 
  Ahhh..that resistor, in the LOD. That's what you were referring to. Yes put it in there. It won't affect your 5 G mod in any way, at all. But that makes the LOD work on an iPhone. Certain models will get an error message if that resistor isn't there. Although you don't need it, you may as well put it in so it can be used on all Apple products. 
   
  There is no way that vitamin Q cap will fit. They are almost 1/2 inch thick by 1 1/2 inches long.  If anything, try putting 4.7 Uf WIMA film caps in there. They fit with the deep back and sound better than the electrolytics. Mount them up in the space next to the CF card and battery. See my post a page or two back about selecting the uf rating. Under ANY circumstance, the highest rating you would EVER need is 8 uf....47 uf is absolute overkill.
   
  If you want to use big ol' honkin caps that is another thing but you need an external enclosure. I have an Altoid tin stuck to the back of an imod with WIMA polypropylene caps inside. wired up with solid silver wire. Ridiculous, but it sounds fantastic!


----------



## rabruslik

ppl, can some1 mod my ipod video 30gb 5.5g? i live in toronto


----------



## viperman3

Just finished the diyMOD on a 5th Gen iPod Video. Using Elna Silmic II 4.7uF caps. Added SD to CF adapter with 128GB SD Card.
  Used 30awg Kynar wire. iPod is running Rockbox (128GB also works on original iPod firmware).


----------



## thegrobe

Sweet! Very nice work. Enjoy the new sound...


----------



## elbandito

viperman, this si sandman, please return to base and confirm which wire did you use over.
  is that 30AWG?


----------



## Analoog

Viperman,
 ZIF->CF->SD adapter->SD card works flawlessly? I have in mind of buying SD card too and apply SD card adapter instead of CF card, should be cheaper and more usage in future with card.


----------



## viperman3

Quote: 





analoog said:


> Viperman,
> ZIF->CF->SD adapter->SD card works flawlessly? I have in mind of buying SD card too and apply SD card adapter instead of CF card, should be cheaper and more usage in future with card.


 
   
  Have a look at Tarkan's website
   
  http://www.tarkan.info/20121226/tutorials/ipod-and-sdhc-sdxc-cards


----------



## 171161

I have occasionally read bits and pieces of this thread over the last 2 years, but have yet to make any of the user generated modifications to my 5.5G ipod.
   
  I realize that to get the best sound quality possible one would want to go DAC > silver wire > better Caps > silver wire > LOD
   
  But I've always wondered what would be the outcome if one simply unsoldered the Z-Caps and then resoldered some better 4.7uF caps directly (probably with some extension wires so the caps could be tucked away somewhere with space) to the Z-pads on the circuit board?
  My thoughts are that this could possibly increase the sound quality of the head phone out jack while still making use of the ipods stock amplifier. This would be nifty as you would have a fully self contained ipod with better sound quality at both the LOD and headphone out. Thus one would benefit from both feeding the system into an external amp with the LOD, or using a less bulky set up of just the ipod head phone out alone with some IEMs or low impedence headphones.
   
  Can someone with more technical expertise with electronics comment on if there would be any significant gains from this route?


----------



## TorchVert

Quote: 





analoog said:


> Viperman,
> ZIF->CF->SD adapter->SD card works flawlessly? I have in mind of buying SD card too and apply SD card adapter instead of CF card, should be cheaper and more usage in future with card.


 
   
  I have one set up exactly that way (with a 128GB Kingston SDXC card). Works absolutely perfectly.


----------



## Analoog

Quote: 





torchvert said:


> I have one set up exactly that way (with a 128GB Kingston SDXC card). Works absolutely perfectly.


 
  Great, Will make this setup as SD cards are much cheaper.


----------



## paulus germanus

I was gonna look for a pair of small caps to stick on the back of the iMod between LOD and an amp, and here's, among others, what I've stumbled upon: http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_mundorf_sgo.html

BUT what I completely don't get is *what e.g. "0.1uf / 1000V" means?* They (0.1uf / 1000V) are the smallest ones and I'd love the size, but are their specs enough? How does it work: the higher the 'uf' the better? Plz pardon my outrageous ignorance but I tried to research it and didn't manage to find much info on caps for noobs, which I totally am. Thx

Edit: I also have another question: What are the best caps that actually fit inside of an iPod (30 and 80 gigs respectively)? Thx Bros


----------



## hiiisociety

This is obviously too complex for me.  Anyone around Seattle, Washington that I can pay to have this done?
   
  Thanks in advance,
  J


----------



## rereredundant

Hi guys, excellent thread here!  I am getting back into headphones and would love to do this mod on my ipod 4g Photo.  I am having a difficult time finding thorough instructions except for this guide right here http://macintoshhowto.com/hardware/how-to-imod-a-4th-gen-ipod-photo.html .  This will just be used as a home audio solution so I would like to mimic his execution and send the line out through the headphone jack.
   
  The part where I am confused is the removal of both the resistors and the inductors.  From what I have read online, to remove the inductors you simply heat both sides up evenly with a soldering iron so that it eventually falls off.  But how do I go about removing the resistors?  
   
  I do not have any soldering experience but just bought my first iron which should be here next week.  I appreciate any help or insight you all can provide =]


----------



## Analoog

Today I had a chance for first time to test the DIYmodded iPod 5.5g with CF+SD mod. One word. Just AMAZED. Better sound quality than iMac's audio input for me! Using WIMA 4.7uf caps and direct connection to dock pins, Meier HeadSix as amp and HD650 cans. This thread is best  Thanks to all.


----------



## Bad and Quiet

What is the best capactior for Imod? 47uf 6.3v, 30uf 6.3v. etc?


----------



## thegrobe

bad and quiet said:


> What is the best capactior for Imod? 47uf 6.3v, 30uf 6.3v. etc?



The exact uf rating depends on the input impedance of the amp being used. Under any circumstances, 8uf is enough. You will never need higher than that. Voltage of 6.3 is fine or higher, doesn't matter much.


----------



## Marmotta

I've been reading up on diyModding my 5G, but I still wasn't sure if there's there a way of keeping the headphone jack running via the internal amp for when I don't have a portable amp with me or it runs out of juice (as with the iMod), as it's a feature I'd like to have.  I'm guessing for someone with basic programming skills (i.e. not me) it would be easy enough to put together an IC that can switch depending on whether the headphone jack is ground.  Would just leaving the capacitors in place by the DAC allow me to do this (and how much would this alter the line-out quality)?
   
  Also, would these capacitors be suitable for an internal mod?
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271184554571?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
   
  Thanks


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





analoog said:


> Today I had a chance for first time to test the DIYmodded iPod 5.5g with CF+SD mod. One word. Just AMAZED. Better sound quality than iMac's audio input for me! Using WIMA 4.7uf caps and direct connection to dock pins, Meier HeadSix as amp and HD650 cans. This thread is best  Thanks to all.


 

 I totally agree on the Wima caps. Amazing sound! Make sure you go with a pure silver LOD cable. It's heavenly sound and I am really astonished.


----------



## DMinor

OK guys just want to share my experience on the caps. I thought the Silmic caps are good, then the Wima's surprised me, now the Kemet/Evox film caps took this by storm. Wow I am really impressed. Just be sure to give these film caps at least a week of burn-in time to open it up and clean up the initial roughness.
   
  The results are very clean sound with best separation, bass and lows' more extended and treble more refined, bigger sound stage. I never expected such a big improvement to the ipod SQ with these caps but now I am a firm believer of what these caps can do.
   
  I have been listening the whole day in my office to the mod with the Kemet caps using the UHA-6S MK2 and EX1000, and I just can't have it enough.


----------



## mpawluk91

Ok so I want to have my 5.5 imodded

I have an 80gb version with a thick back plate, a small battery from the 30gb model, and a 64gb cf card.

I know that there's a lot of room in my ipod for internal caps, but what I really want to know is am I able to use internal caps WITH external caps for even better sound?


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





mpawluk91 said:


> Ok so I want to have my 5.5 imodded
> 
> I have an 80gb version with a thick back plate, a small battery from the 30gb model, and a 64gb cf card.
> 
> I know that there's a lot of room in my ipod for internal caps, but what I really want to know is am I able to use internal caps WITH external caps for even better sound?


 
  No need for multiple caps. In fact, for the best sound quality, NO caps would be the best solution, as there would be nothing in the signal path. But the caps are necessary to block harmful DC voltage from reaching down your signal chain. So one properly chosen pair of caps is all you need. (one left, one right) anything between 4.7 - 8 uf is fine. There is really no reason under any circumstances to use anything higher than 8uf. 
   
  If you have the thick back, I strongly recommend using film caps rather than electrolytic. WIMA 4.7 or Kemit (as Dminor recommended a couple posts up) will fit in the thick back. In fact, you can use the bigger battery as well. It all fits inside.


----------



## mpawluk91

thegrobe said:


> No need for multiple caps. In fact, for the best sound quality, NO caps would be the best solution, as there would be nothing in the signal path. But the caps are necessary to block harmful DC voltage from reaching down your signal chain. So one properly chosen pair of caps is all you need. (one left, one right) anything between 4.7 - 8 uf is fine. There is really no reason under any circumstances to use anything higher than 8uf.
> 
> If you have the thick back, I strongly recommend using film caps rather than electrolytic. WIMA 4.7 or Kemit (as Dminor recommended a couple posts up) will fit in the thick back. In fact, you can use the bigger battery as well. It all fits inside.


Why do some people use caps as big as they're dap then?


----------



## thegrobe

mpawluk91 said:


> Why do some people use caps as big as they're dap then?




Different qualities of material. 

Take a 4.7 cap for example. Electrolytic caps are tiny and can have huge uf ratings. Many people think these are fine, perhaps because of the convenient size. I personally think the sound is lacking.

Next there is polyester film caps. In the same 4.7 rating, each cap is about 2-3 times the size of the electrolytic. But it will still fit in a deep back iPod. These sound much better and is the minimum quality I would recommend to use with the mod.

Next film cap is polypropylene. These sound fantastic! But the size of one in a 4.7 rating is about half the size of an iPod and more than twice as thick. Also pretty expensive. That's the giant caps you see. 
Then there's other more exotic materials but I won't comment because I haven't tried them.

Personally, my favorite iPod mod has two fairly large 3.3uf Wima polypropylene caps mounted in an altoids tin on the back of my 5G iPod. Any larger value wouldn't fit the tin. It's all wired from the DAC with solid silver wire to the caps then direct to the line out pins, bypassing everything in the iPod. 

It sounds great but it's big and ugly! A sensible middle ground is the polyester film caps, maybe Dminor will chime in here and back me up.


----------



## DMinor

Haha my friend I happen to be here right now. 
   
  I totally agree, from my own experience, that the film caps sound much better than the electrolytic ones. This is from my auditions of the Silmic II's, Wima's and the Kemet's. The Kemet's are amazing as I am listening to it right now. Both the Wima 4.7 and the Kemet 4.7 fit the fat ipods perfectly. What else can I say about these Kemet caps. Please try them and thank me later. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  One thing I would like to mention is with these Kemet caps, I can crank up the vol on the UHA to the max without hurting my ears (maybe hurting my head a little bit, LOL). No distortions no loss of details or separations, and everything is transparently zoomed in or out. The sound is very elastic with that well controlled extensions.
   
  With that said, I would like to try those BIG polypropylene caps in the future and do a comparison.


----------



## mpawluk91

dminor said:


> Haha my friend I happen to be here right now.
> 
> I totally agree, from my own experience, that the film caps sound much better than the electrolytic ones. This is from my auditions of the Silmic II's, Wima's and the Kemet's. The Kemet's are amazing as I am listening to it right now. Both the Wima 4.7 and the Kemet 4.7 fit the fat ipods perfectly. What else can I say about these Kemet caps. Please try them and thank me later. :wink_face:
> 
> ...


So the Kermet cap is a polyester film cap?


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





mpawluk91 said:


> So the Kermet cap is a polyester film cap?


 
  Yeap. One thing I would like to say it again about these film caps is they do need time for burn-ins. I would say at least 50 hrs to bring out the beauty and perhaps take 100 hrs to settle down. So if you use the film caps be prepared for the initial roughness, and don't let the initial "disappointment" trick you thinking these are no good. Be patient.


----------



## thegrobe

Yup.They can sound grainy and disjointed for the first few hours then get better.

D- I still haven't got the Kemet caps to try out. I've been waiting on a "mod-job" I'm expecting to receive before I buy anymore parts. When I do try them and if they are really good I may put them in the Frankenmod to slim it down a bit. That thing needs a diet. Bikini weather and all...


----------



## thegrobe

..oops double mobile post
Edit: or put them in the Bride of Frankenmod (the other 5G) that thing needs a reason to live


----------



## DMinor

Haha, you won't be disappointed with these KERMIT caps my friend and you ipod 5.5g deserves these caps. Hey with this mod and UHA they are perfectly portable if you have that amp wallet.
   
  Sometimes I couldn't believe what I hear - it's too good to be true.


----------



## DMinor

Another thing is the synergy. The mod with the Kemet caps and the UHA amp are a perfect fit for my treble king EX1000. I swear it's better than xxx.
   
  The separation and clarity are ridiculous. I can hear all the junks in the recording, including the performers' finger movements on the instruments.


----------



## mpawluk91

dminor said:


> Another thing is the synergy. The mod with the Kemet caps and the UHA amp are a perfect fit for my treble king EX1000. I swear it's better than xxx.
> 
> The separation and clarity are ridiculous. I can hear all the junks in the recording, including the performers' finger movements on the instruments.


I'm stickin with my arrow 4g and getting a fiio e12 also I have a c&c bh and a fiio e6


----------



## mpawluk91

dminor said:


> Yeap. One thing I would like to say it again about these film caps is they do need time for burn-ins. I would say at least 50 hrs to bring out the beauty and perhaps take 100 hrs to settle down. So if you use the film caps be prepared for the initial roughness, and don't let the initial "disappointment" trick you thinking these are no good. Be patient.


Where can I get these man


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





mpawluk91 said:


> Where can I get these man


 
  http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/MMK5475K50J06L165TR18/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1cc3ydrPrF4Cr%2fvHpDzYXwcNVe015xcs%3d


----------



## DMinor

I have also read good things about the Mundorf caps, but non of their film caps could fit even the fat ipod. There is only one electrolytic cap which may have a slight chance to get in the ipod:
   
  Mundorf E_Capacitor_049_ECAP70 4.7uf / 50VAC-70VDC, MLytic® Bi-Polar AC (ECAP70-Plain), 10mmD x 30mmH
   
  You know we are blessed with the 5g's and these caps. In my opinion that's enough to get the quality sound without spending tons of money chasing something which may be impossible. I am now a FIRM believer of the caps because of my experience. The caps probably have far more impact on the sound from these ipods than anything else, unless you are using the earbuds and play 128kbp MP3's.
   
  I asked in the AK100 thread if any owner of that dap in my city would like to meet with me to do a comparison between the AK100 and mine ipod. But so far I have received no response. Although I am so pleased with what I am hearing from the ipod, I hope I am wrong and these high-end daps are far better than the modded ipod.


----------



## mpawluk91

thegrobe said:


> Different qualities of material.
> 
> Take a 4.7 cap for example. Electrolytic caps are tiny and can have huge uf ratings. Many people think these are fine, perhaps because of the convenient size. I personally think the sound is lacking.
> 
> ...


Your positive that the polyester film cap will fit in the fat 5.5 with a cf card?


----------



## cmiu

I decide finally to apply this mod to my old 5.5 iPod.
  My iPod is already moded with a 240 GB HDD and new battery so I will not have enough space to cram the capacitor inside the case, the good point is that I don’t need to bother with caps dimensions. For the moment I’m thinking to put the caps on the interconnect cable.
  I have a Bottlehead Crack amplifier and as far I can see from schematics there are no caps between input connector and pre amp tube (12AU7), only the volume potentiometer so I will take the safe way and put the caps.
  According to the comments from thread the caps can be between 2uF and 4.7uF. I plan to buy the following caps:
  AUDIOPHILER Metallized Polypropylene Capacitors 4.7uF MKP ±3% 400V HE
  CLARITYCAP Metallized Polypropylene Capacitors 4.7uF ESA ±3% 250V
  Mundorf MCap250 4.7uF Polypropylene Capacitors 250 VDC
   
  Should I consider other caps or other caps capacities?
  Thanks


----------



## thegrobe

cmiu said:


> I decide finally to apply this mod to my old 5.5 iPod.
> My iPod is already moded with a 240 GB HDD and new battery so I will not have enough space to cram the capacitor inside the case, the good point is that I don’t need to bother with caps dimensions. For the moment I’m thinking to put the caps on the interconnect cable.
> I have a Bottlehead Crack amplifier and as far I can see from schematics there are no caps between input connector and pre amp tube (12AU7), only the volume potentiometer so I will take the safe way and put the caps.
> According to the comments from thread the caps can be between 2uF and 4.7uF. I plan to buy the following caps:
> ...



Can you provide the input impedance of your amplifier to pinpoint the optimal cap value? 10k, 50k, etc..thanks


----------



## cmiu

The input impedance for Crack amp is 100K.


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





cmiu said:


> The input impedance for Crack amp is 100K.


 
  With that rating, you can use a pretty low uf rating. 1 uf would do. If you want to be EXACT, you need .8uf
   
  If you ever wanted to use the modded iPod with another amp, though, you may want to use a higher value. For example, the amp I use has a 10k impedance, and I need ideally an 8uf cap. 
   
  So the 4.7 rating you listed would be more than enough for your needs, and give you the option to use other amps as well. But if you are sticking with the one amp, I would recommend 1 uf. The 4.7 cap puts your -3db point way down at .35 Hz. You may want to research if a really low -3db point may leak DC, (the whole reason for the caps is to block DC) I am not sure...It's worth looking into.


----------



## cmiu

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> With that rating, you can use a pretty low uf rating. 1 uf would do. If you want to be EXACT, you need .8uf


 

 Thanks a lot for answering my question. For the moment I plan to use the iPod only with this amp, and because I plan to put the caps outside (most probably directly on the cable) I can play around with caps (rating and types). And as a bonus the caps are almost half the price 
   
  Because it will not be a mobile solution I'm thinking that most probably I will route the signal thru the headphone jack. The iPod usually stands in the dock and I have opened yesterday night the dock hoping that the line out jack comes directly from the bottom iPod pins, but unfortunatelly it seems that first goes thru a integrate ... I will try pull the pcb out in order to inspect it visually and/or measure the path woth an ampermeter.


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





cmiu said:


> Thanks a lot for answering my question. For the moment I plan to use the iPod only with this amp, and because I plan to put the caps outside (most probably directly on the cable) I can play around with caps (rating and types). And as a bonus the caps are almost half the price
> 
> Because it will not be a mobile solution I'm thinking that most probably I will route the signal thru the headphone jack. The iPod usually stands in the dock and I have opened yesterday night the dock hoping that the line out jack comes directly from the bottom iPod pins, but unfortunatelly it seems that first goes thru a integrate ... I will try pull the pcb out in order to inspect it visually and/or measure the path woth an ampermeter.


 
   
  That's a good idea to have the caps so you can change them, experiment, etc. It also is worth mentioning that if you only need 1uf caps, stick with it. The is a disadvantage to using more cap than you need...  (4.7 for example) - there is more material in the signal path. Less material, the more pure the signal. At least that's the way I understand it. The whole point of this mod is to get the pure signal from the DAC, so the less capacitance in the way, the better. 
   
  It would be an interesting experiment to have two identical setups where one was a 100k amp and 1uf caps, and a 10k amp with 8uf caps. Then see which had a better sound. My guess would be the 100k amp and minimal capacitance in the path. However, this experiment would never work because the character of the different amps would screw the whole comparison up!


----------



## Athur126

Okay so after various failed attempts I got this DIYmod going. Used Elna II caps and 28awg solid silver wire. Sounds way better than my old iphone. I did the DIYmod following grobe's advice, with internal caps and wired directly to the pins. Really have to thank him for it


----------



## DMinor

Good job and congrats. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Fun with the diymod isn't it?
   
  Yes the direct out mod with the magic caps can significantly improve the SQ of the 5g's/5.5g's from my experience. In fact I may have hit a jackpot with my recent mod paired with my gears. I am scratching my head what's happened since I am using the same killer caps. The only thing I could think of is I used different wires for the mod and a better solder station.
   
  I would like to challenge those high-end daps with my killer setup. But I know this sound thingy all comes down to the "chemistry", it's like try and error game.


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





athur126 said:


> Okay so after various failed attempts I got this DIYmod going. Used Elna II caps and 28awg solid silver wire. Sounds way better than my old iphone. I did the DIYmod following grobe's advice, with internal caps and wired directly to the pins. Really have to thank him for it


 
   
  Great work! Way to go! It was a bit of a rocky road but you did it! The next one will go very smoothly, I promise. Next experiment maybe swap out the electrolytic caps for film caps? A very worthwhile project. 
   
  Quote: 





dminor said:


> Good job and congrats.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Good stuff. It could be your solder joints were less than perfect with the old soldering iron? Maybe the new mod with more clean/solid joints have something to do with the "jackpot" sound...
   
  You're going to have to start storing TV shows and pictures and all that on your iPods to fill them up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know you must not have enough music to fill what?..888 Gb and increasing? Good grief someone get this guy into iPod rehab!


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Good stuff. It could be your solder joints were less than perfect with the old soldering iron? Maybe the new mod with more clean/solid joints have something to do with the "jackpot" sound...
> 
> You're going to have to start storing TV shows and pictures and all that on your iPods to fill them up.
> 
> ...


 
   
  For next mod I will wire the sucker with 0.99997 silver. or maybe half gold half silver? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Hey one day we'll have to feed these ipods with 48bits/132kHz flac's, and I promise you the 888 Gb's will be gone in a matter of days. By then I am looking at 8,888 gb's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I am already in music rehab with all these ipods levitating all over my rooms.


----------



## Athur126

Hmm film caps is a good idea.. Maybe the next time I get something from Mouser.


----------



## Athur126

Btw has anyone done a DIYmod with supercapacitors? On my local forums someone is advertising them as the next best thing. Is this legit?


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





athur126 said:


> Btw has anyone done a DIYmod with supercapacitors? On my local forums someone is advertising them as the next best thing. Is this legit?


 

 The question is "can it fit inside the ipod?". If it does, let me know and I will be the 1st one to try it.


----------



## thegrobe

dminor said:


> The question is "can it fit inside the ipod?".If it does, let me know and I will be the 1st one to try it.




And I'm the dummy who will put them outside the iPod. 

I've got an ugly Altoids tin strapped to the back of my iPod to prove it!  bring it on!


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> And I'm the dummy who will put them outside the iPod.
> 
> I've got an ugly Altoids tin strapped to the back of my iPod to prove it!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Now all you need is to squeeze your UHA into that Altoids too, or find a big Altoids to include both the ipod and caps.


----------



## Athur126

http://forums.vr-zone.com/home-theater-audio-equipment/2896535-closed.html 
He claimed to have done it..


----------



## DMinor

I am digging the supercaps and like what I have read about it. Yes power and audio quality they are related. All I need to do is to try a diymod with these supercaps.


----------



## DMinor

Order has been placed for these supercaps. Hearing is believing, and I want to find out nothing but the truth.


----------



## Athur126

How much and where did u get them? The guy was charging $200 SGD(about $140?USD) more over film caps.


----------



## DMinor

.


----------



## Athur126

Woah 3F? But only 2.3v? Don't you need at least 6.3V to be safe?


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





athur126 said:


> Woah 3F? But only 2.3v? Don't you need at least 6.3V to be safe?


 

 Well it's a trial and error thing, and I am willing to donate one ipod for experiment. But not sure if there will be any harm to my amp and/or iem's.


----------



## Athur126

The guy mentioned that he was using 470uf caps idk whats the voltage.


----------



## DMinor

Don't care anymore. When the caps come in I will switch them with other caps in one of my iPods. Just hope the iPod won't explode.


----------



## dimmockg

is there currently anybody in the uk who can perform this and would be willing to do so?? thanks


----------



## Athur126

Do u need to change the back panel to the 80gb one if I wanted to use film caps?


----------



## jerein

Quote: 





athur126 said:


> Do u need to change the back panel to the 80gb one if I wanted to use film caps?


 
  If you've swapped the internal hdd for the cf card, there'll be enough space in the 30gb back for the film caps.


----------



## thegrobe

jerein said:


> If you've swapped the internal hdd for the cf card, there'll be enough space in the 30gb back for the film caps.




Depends on the exact size/brand of the film caps, etc. They are all different sizes. A 2.2uf...sure, that's pretty safe to say it may fit. But you start getting up to 4.7uf you're looking at pretty tight squeeze. So, just saying a "film cap" will fit is a bit vague. Electrolytic caps though will pretty much fit inside no matter what. But don't sound as good, imo 

And guys, don't go all willy-nilly picking out values. 3f? Whoa is right. There is a formula to choose the proper value that won't mess up your frequency response. For the voltage rating- the cap will only block DC up to its rating, and that's the whole reason we're using caps, right? To block DC. I would be weary of 2.3v myself.

That said, I am curious to hear how a "super" cap may sound. Looks a bit just like an electrolytic?

Here's a handy calculator to help solve for the proper capacitor value:

http://www.v-cap.com/coupling-capacitor-calculator.php


----------



## DMinor

I realized the supercaps are electrolytic caps and have the weird numbers for the capacitance and voltage. Since it's super, why not give it a try? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Let's just hope this won't turn out to be a supercrap.  
   
  On the film size, if you use the 4.7uf's as I have been using then don't even try to fit them in the thin model.


----------



## thegrobe

They do say "super"... .....that and your levitating iPods should produce some otherworldly synergy!

Personally, I'm holding out for "uber" caps and then trying to replace the iPod hard drive with a small piece of brain tissue that can work with your levitation tech. This should be able to bypass caps and wires and cables and headphones altogether and telepathically transmit the music from the iPod to your cerebral cortex. Talk about a pure signal!

I've got a few more things to work out though. Like a brain tissue donor and telepathy. I'm probably going to need a lab coat and crazy hair as well. So sit tight.


----------



## thegrobe

Oh, and Dminor is right, 4.7 film caps won't fit in a thin back. Aaaaaalmost, but not quite. 

For anyone who cares, here is a dock connector I did recently. The user wanted to retain the stock hard drive and use film caps. So I hollowed out the dock and were able to fit them inside. Lucky they were 2.2 uf as they were pairing with an amp that had (edit 50k input impedance. So 2.2 was all it needed. Slightly bigger may even fit in there (3.3?) but that's just a guess.


----------



## DMinor

I want to a pre order for the super ipod now.


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





dminor said:


> I want to a pre order for the super ipod now.


 
   
  Send me a chunk of your brain in a cooler. I'll  get started. Throw some poke in there while your'e at it! A guy's gotta eat. That's what I miss most about Hawaii. Poke. Mmmmm


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Oh, and Dminor is right, 4.7 film caps won't fir in a thin back. Aaaaaalmost, but not quite.
> 
> For anyone who cares, here is a dock connector I did recently. The user wanted to retain the stock hard drive and use film caps. So I hollowed out the dock and were able to fit them inside. Lucky they were 2.2 uf as they were pairing with an amp that had 100k input impedance. So 2.2 was all it needed. Slightly bigger may even fit in there (3.3?) but that's just a guess.


 
   
  Nice job my friend. But you forgot to throw in some Kermits there. LOL.
   
  Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Send me a chunk of your brain in a cooler. I'll  get started. Throw some poke in there while your'e at it! A guy's gotta eat. That's what I miss most about Hawaii. Poke. Mmmmm


 
   
  How about this nasty Hamachi? Don't let the looks fool you.


----------



## thegrobe

The kemets in the same size were physically larger, at least according to the spec sheet on mouser. Otherwise those would have gone in there.

I'm actually going to get rid of the giant caps in the one iPod (you can see it in the back of that one picture) going to try the kemet (kemit? Kermit?) in that one so I can compare identical iPods but one w/ Wima and one w/ kemet.

Whatever is better will go in both iPods then probably sell one off.

As far as the Hamachi, that'll work. Although it does give me flashbacks of a porta-potty at a Grateful Dead show.


----------



## DMinor

Doubt you will be selling off one after you try the Killer caps. You will end like me collecting these ipods and kermitting them .
   
*Edit:* On that diymod you showed on last page, was that a direct out mod? I guess it is and the dac wired to the pins directly with nothing in between. correct?


----------



## Athur126

Wait are u talking to me? I did the CFmod with internal elna caps too then wired it to the pins. Are the film caps that much better than the elna's? Cause I might need a new LOD if I wanted to use a 80GB back. Made a bottom exit one lol.


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





athur126 said:


> Wait are u talking to me? I did the CFmod with internal elna caps too then wired it to the pins. Are the film caps that much better than the elna's? Cause I might need a new LOD if I wanted to use a 80GB back. Made a bottom exit one lol.


 

 Sorry I was asking thegrobe about the mod shown in his pics.
   
  On the film caps, yes to my ears both Kemet and Wima sound better than the Elan Silmic's. Then the Kemet's sound better than the Wima's. Good thing about diymod is you can try different caps and settle down to the ones or two's you prefer. Definitely worth a try and the caps only cost a few bucks.


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





dminor said:


> Doubt you will be selling off one after you try the Killer caps. You will end like me collecting these ipods and kermitting them .
> 
> *Edit:* On that diymod you showed on last page, was that a direct out mod? I guess it is and the dac wired to the pins directly with nothing in between. correct?


 
   
  Right. The owner wanted to keep the original hard drive, so no room inside for caps. So direct wired from DAC to pins, then the caps in the LOD. 
  Quote: 





athur126 said:


> Wait are u talking to me? I did the CFmod with internal elna caps too then wired it to the pins. Are the film caps that much better than the elna's? Cause I might need a new LOD if I wanted to use a 80GB back. Made a bottom exit one lol.


 
   
  Do you mean you LOD wouldn't reach the amp if the back was thicker? Short wire? Sounds like a good reason to try making your own LOD. Buy some silver wire and a couple parts, and your'e good to go. Waaaaaay easier than the mod, like a walk in the park if you've successfully completed the mod.


----------



## Athur126

Nah it was a diy LOD. I cut the wires just nice for my current rig. It can't extend cause the wires actually exit from the bottom of the dock, giving smallest possible footprint.


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





athur126 said:


> Nah it was a diy LOD. I cut the wires just nice for my current rig. It can't extend cause the wires actually exit from the bottom of the dock, giving smallest possible footprint.


 
  Ah, right on. I forgot to ask, what amplifier are you using?


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Right. The owner wanted to keep the original hard drive, so no room inside for caps. So direct wired from DAC to pins, then the caps in the LOD.


 
   
  Smart idea. I mean you can put a less expensive 240GB HDD there and still have the improved sound. I am curious if both will sound the same - with the caps inside the ipod or in the lod.


----------



## Athur126

Pico amp. The fat one.


----------



## thegrobe

This one?

http://www.headamp.com/pico/pico_amp/index.htm

If so, you've got a 50k input impedance. A 2uf film cap is more than enough. That film cap I showed in the dock pics is a 2.2. Small enough to fit inside a dock connector..and also a thin back iPod with the CF drive.

In that earlier post I mis-quoted that mod was 100k, correct was 50k. I edited...


----------



## Athur126

Yup! I need anything above 1.6uf. But I think I might wait a bit before I get the film caps. I wanna know wether the supercapacitors are legit first lol.


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





athur126 said:


> Yup! I need anything above 1.6uf. But I think I might wait a bit before I get the film caps. I wanna know wether the supercapacitors are legit first lol.


 
   
  If you don't hear from me about the supercaps then there is a good chance the ipod would have exploded.


----------



## DMinor

OK guys some new experiments on my favorite killer caps.
   
  The ones I bought previously were all 4.7uf/50V/10% made in Finland. Today, I decided to throw in a pair of 4.7uf/50V/5% made in Indonesia.
   
  I have done some critical listening to some of my very demanding symphonies and orchestral work. I am surprised that for the first time I don't hear any congestions in those pieces. I am smiling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My evaluation standard is very simple - if the caps can handle symphonies, it can handle any other genres easily.
   
  So I have to say no killer caps are equal. Not sure it's because of the 5% difference in tolerance or the origin of these caps. Whatever it may be, the result is surprising to my ears. Also the latest caps don't seem to have the initial roughness therefore no burn-ins needed.


----------



## Athur126

Killer caps?


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





athur126 said:


> Killer caps?


 

 Kemet kills.


----------



## caseyfriday

I'm building quite a few of these mods over at RetroSonicFidelity, I'm calling them "retroMods".  Here are a couple photos of the iPod 3G and iPod minis I've been working on so far.
   

   

   

   

   

   
  I'm doing my listening with an O2 headphone amp I built, and the difference between the new line-out and the headphone out is unbelievable.  Even my wife could hear a difference, and she's usually indifferent to audio equipment.


----------



## DMinor

Nice work casey. What caps did you use for the mod, the Kemet's? Did you wire it directly to the lod pins?
   
  Anyways, day and night difference (yes I mean it) for me now between the stock and diymod in terms of SQ. The fun from doing this thing is even unmeasurable.


----------



## caseyfriday

Thanks, DMinor!  I'm actually using Elna Slimic II's.  I read you stating others sound better, but since these are my first diyMods, to me they sound absolutely fantastic.  I've been toying with offering a few "special editions" with some crazy expensive Blackgates I might purchase on ebay from Japan.
   
  You're right, it is ridiculously fun to do this!  Although I killed 4 iPod mini boards in the process (lifted pads), I've got the procedure down now, and I'm pretty quick and efficient with it.
   
  No, I did not wire directly to LOD pins; I wired it as mentioned in the diymod guides. If you've wired yours directly to the LOD pins, how did you mange to get a clean connection on such a small, crowded area?


----------



## DMinor

I have tried Elan Silmic's, Wima films and the Kemet films. No doubt to my ears the Kemet's stand out. I recommend you try it and don't forget to thank me if you like them .
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I killed one ipod during my fist attempt that was a little discouraging, but the fire kept burning under my skin and the 2nd attempt was successful.
   
  Sorry I believe wiring to the pins is only for the 5g or 5.5g. I only work on the ipod video's, for now.


----------



## caseyfriday

I will try some of those.  I'm currently using a blue iPod mini that I haven't yet diyModded, and I wonder how the film caps would fit in that casing...


----------



## thegrobe

Casey, if you look a few pages back I believe I posted some pics detailing the pin mod. They were imbedded in a response to another post.


----------



## thegrobe

Nice work, Casey, BTW


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Casey, if you look a few pages back I believe I posted some pics detailing the pin mod. They were imbedded in a response to another post.


 

 I thought the direct out mod only applies to the ipod video's not the mini's, correct?


----------



## thegrobe

dminor said:


> I thought the direct out mod only applies to the ipod video's not the mini's, correct?




I don't know, really. I've never looked inside a mini. Maybe that's the case...or maybe there's some way to do it, it's still a 30 pin dock, there's still pins there. I imagine you could pull them, solder, and put it back.

Casey said it was cramped. Exactly what I thought about the 5g at first ??
Might be the next fun experiment?


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> I don't know, really. I've never looked inside a mini. Maybe that's the case...or maybe there's some way to do it, it's still a 30 pin dock, there's still pins there. I imagine you could pull them, solder, and put it back.
> 
> Casey said it was cramped. Exactly what I thought about the 5g at first ??
> Might be the next fun experiment?


 
   
  Even if the direct out mod can be done for the mini's, I don't think it has the internal space for the 4.7uf film caps. But you can put the caps in the lod then, but still not as spacious as the ipod video with the thick plate for the caps. That's why I stick to the video's.
   
  I remember I bought one mini for my mom many yrs ago and from my memory that thing is really compact in comparison to the video with a thick back plate.


----------



## caseyfriday

I just took a look at one of my minis, and although the dock pins are exposed, it looks like wiring them to the other side of the board essentially puts you at the exact same spot.  Experiment?  Yes.  Fun?  Meeehhhh.


----------



## caseyfriday

Quote: 





dminor said:


> I remember I bought one mini for my mom many yrs ago and from my memory that thing is really compact in comparison to the video with a thick back plate.


 

 It absolutely is compact.  The 4.7uF caps I'm putting in barely fit when I strip the CF card of its casing (hope I'll never need the warranty!).
   
  Although I fit these Elna caps in, and they have a 5mm diameter.  So with a short dimension of about 4mm, I could probably smush a film cap in there.
   

   
  These are already MUCH bigger than the SMD caps, of course.


----------



## DMinor

I was actually talking about the 4.7uf film caps (7.3mm thick from memory), which is much more husky than the Silmic.


----------



## thegrobe

Dude, that pic of the dock pins:
Totally do-able!

5g is the same whereas the DAC is on the opposite side of the board, so you must file a notch in the frame to route the wires from the DAC to the line out pins. 

Totally got to get my hands on a mini! But yeah, the film caps would need to be external. Put them in the dock connector like those pics I posted.


----------



## DMinor

Another candidate for killing time if you get bored, only if you can find those mini's. Looks like the project is getting bigger.


----------



## caseyfriday

Quote: 





dminor said:


> Another candidate for killing time if you get bored, only if you can find those mini's. Looks like the project is getting bigger.


 

 I bought a lot of 36 of them to refurb and diyMod!


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





caseyfriday said:


> I bought a lot of 36 of them to refurb and diyMod!


 

 Holy 36 Mini's. I am sure you won't get bored for a while.


----------



## caseyfriday

I just tried to wire the mini's output directly to the dock connector pins, and I destroyed one of my minis. Gonna stick with the suggested soldering points now.


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





caseyfriday said:


> I just tried to wire the mini's output directly to the dock connector pins, and I destroyed one of my minis. Gonna stick with the suggested soldering points now.


 

 Sorry to hear that man.
   
  How & what exactly did that happen? No sound? Sad face?
   
  I am not sure though if the dock pins of the mini are exactly numbered the same as the ipod video's for left/right channels, i.e. #3 & #4 pins.


----------



## caseyfriday

Even better than that. I lifted pin 5's pad and bent the pin. I probably should have looked at how others have soldered directly to the dock as a guide first.


----------



## DMinor

Well I took some pics for the last mod I did, hope these can be helpful to others who want to do the direct out mod to the pins. Yes the pins are tiny but with a decent solder station they are less intimidating than I initially thought.


----------



## Athur126

Do you have a picture of how it looks like with the Cf card inside? I tried to stuff the 4.7uf wimas in but it doesn't seem to work, even with my friends 80GB ipod.


----------



## caseyfriday

dminor said:


> Well I took some pics for the last mod I did, hope these can be helpful to others who want to do the direct out mod to the pins. Yes the pins are tiny but with a decent solder station they are less intimidating than I initially thought.



I'm not seeing your soldering of the actual dock connector pins. Did you happen to take a photo of that?


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





athur126 said:


> Do you have a picture of how it looks like with the Cf card inside? I tried to stuff the 4.7uf wimas in but it doesn't seem to work, even with my friends 80GB ipod.


 
   
  This pic from another mod but showing where the caps are located with the CF in.
   

   
   
   
  Quote: 





caseyfriday said:


> I'm not seeing your soldering of the actual dock connector pins. Did you happen to take a photo of that?


 
   
  What you meant? The 2 pins were first taken out from the dock and then soldered to the wires (shown in the pic). Then you put the pins back to the dock and secure them with hot glue or epoxy.


----------



## caseyfriday

Aaahh, no wonder it was so difficult for me to try and solder the wires directly to the mini's dock.  I didn't remove the pins from the dock first.  Didn't even know you could!  Is it just a pressure connection?


----------



## thegrobe

I would recommend looking a few pages back, I answered all this in a response, including pictures, instructions, etc.


----------



## thegrobe

Here, this post, read the bold responses and check the pics I included

http://www.head-fi.org/t/269604/the-apple-diymod-my-take-on-the-famous-imod-56k-killer-featuring-3g-4g-5g-and-nano-1g/2595#post_9180204


----------



## thegrobe

Here's more, copied from a few pages back:


anyone trying the direct to dock pins method - Have a dead iPod or iPod dock available to "harvest" some extra pins from the female dock. The pins are extremely frail, fussy, and easy to lose. Once separated from the board they pull right out of the dock. It really isn't that hard to remove them. The ones on the iPod you you are working on - you will want to desolder while getting an xacto blade tip behind them and they pop right off. 

Any "spares" you get from a donor you can just use that xacto knife blade to wildly cut them off the board then pull them from the dock with small tweezers. 

You will want to solder your wires to the pins while they are removed from the dock. If you look at the dock, counting from the left, you are operating on pins #3 and 4. #3 is right signal, #4 is left signal. On pin #3 you will want to solder your wire kind of on the left side of it, on pin #4 solder kind of on the right. The first time I soldered the wires centered on the pins and just the thin film of solder on each was thick enough that when the pins were back in the dock they were touching intermittently. The area here is soooo small that you want to verify individual pin isolation and continuity (as needed) with a multimeter.


When the pins go back into the dock they are all wacky and fussy as well so you want to make sure they are seated properly in their grooves on the other side of the dock and hit them with a dab of hot glue to secure them.

(I have since switched to using epoxy here)


----------



## caseyfriday

I just read your posts from a couple pages back - thanks for the helpful notes.  It looks like I could do that, based on the amount of space between a stripped CF card and the dock connector (see pic below), but it's such a tight fit that I'd rather stick to using the connections on the front of the board.  I've also gotten gotten quite good at soldering to the pads on the front of the board, and I doubt I'd hear any difference wiring it directly to the pins.


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





caseyfriday said:


> Aaahh, no wonder it was so difficult for me to try and solder the wires directly to the mini's dock.  I didn't remove the pins from the dock first.  Didn't even know you could!  Is it just a pressure connection?


 

 It would be a daunting task to solder to the pins while they are in the dock without bridging anything.
   
  I recall thegrobe even posted a pic showing how the pins/wires should be bent for soldering. Follow that pic exactly. With a few practice, you should be good to go.


----------



## DMinor

Any chance we can mod the battery for ipod video? I am wondering if we can possibly put in a pair of batteries (let's assume the space is not an issue) to boost power supply.


----------



## caseyfriday

dminor said:


> Any chance we can mod the battery for ipod video? I am wondering if we can possibly put in a pair of batteries (let's assume the space is not an issue) to boost power supply.


 
 One person did it with an iPod touch.  I don't see why it wouldn't work with any other iPod, as long as you solder the correct wires together.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaNC9FmJt2k


----------



## Rebkos

Hey guys,
 Here is my diymod
  
 Just finished still with original firmware:
  


  
  
 And here is current setup rockboxed diymod with amp and iems 
  

  
  
 I kept original 50GB HDD. But its far to small for me, im thinking about some upgrade. I would like to try CF card as it is more battery friendly, but 256GB cards are too expensive. Guess i have to go with 256GB regular HDD, found some for about $120.


----------



## caseyfriday

Awesome work!  I love that clear housing.


----------



## DMinor

caseyfriday said:


> Awesome work!  I love that clear housing.


 
  
 +1.


----------



## Don Lehrer

My iPod Classic was broken but I could manage to get it back to work. Now I want to do some work with it and getting a clear housing is on top of my list!!!


----------



## DMinor

don lehrer said:


> My iPod Classic was broken but I could manage to get it back to work. Now I want to do some work with it and getting a clear housing is on top of my list!!!


 
  
 You won't regret getting one of those. It looks fantastic.


----------



## DR650SE

rebkos said:


> I kept original 50GB HDD. But its far to small for me, im thinking about some upgrade. I would like to try CF card as it is more battery friendly, but 256GB cards are too expensive. Guess i have to go with 256GB regular HDD, found some for about $120.


 
  
 Have you thought about a Compact Flash to SD card adaptor?  Thats what I did.  Higher capacity SD cards are cheaper than compact flash.
  
 I'm using this one with my iPod CF adaptor.
  
http://www.amazon.com/SD-CF-II-Type-Adapter-Supports/dp/B000YZGCIU
  
 Also, where do I get a clear housing for my 5.5G iPod?  Love the look!


----------



## DMinor

dr650se said:


> Also, where do I get a clear housing for my 5.5G iPod?  Love the look!


 
  
 http://www.rapidrepair.com/shop/1641-ivue-clear-panel-video-kit-full.html


----------



## DR650SE

Awesome!  Nice and cheap too.  Just have to get an invsible shield on it and I'll be good to go.  Thanks!  +1


----------



## DMinor

dr650se said:


> Awesome!  Nice and cheap too.  Just have to get an invsible shield on it and I'll be good to go.  Thanks!  +1


 
  
 Make sure to watch their video on how to DIY on this before you actually do it.
  
 What you meant by invisible shield? The kit comes with everything you need.


----------



## Rebkos

dr650se said:


> Have you thought about a Compact Flash to SD card adaptor?  Thats what I did.  Higher capacity SD cards are cheaper than compact flash.
> 
> I'm using this one with my iPod CF adaptor.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I did thought about it. The thing is, over the years i have managed to assembly quite huge amount of loseless music collection. Its about 280GB and keeps growing. And i would like to have with me as much of it as i can, because my mood for music changes quite often through the day. And prices for SD or CF cards in size greater than 128GB are insane. But i guess i will go with SD/CF solution, because i could use that bit increased battery time. But first i need to deal with complete Home theatre/Hi-fi solution at my crib.
  
 In mean time, fell free to share your opinions, i would appreciate that


----------



## DR650SE

This is the Zagg Invisible Shield.
http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/apple-video-ipod-60-80gb-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php#apple-video-ipod-60-80gb-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields/149?&_suid=137929195002805684772453365645
  
 Currently I have had one on my 5.5G iPod for years and my iPod 5.5G is still in mint condition.  Not a scratch on it.  If I were to peel it off the iPod, it would look linke mint condition.
  
 I like to use this stuff on all my phones, tablets, Kindle, iPods ect.  It's extremely tough, and prevents scratching.  I like to keep my toys pretty and looking new.


----------



## DMinor

rebkos said:


> I did thought about it. The thing is, over the years i have managed to assembly quite huge amount of loseless music collection. Its about 280GB and keeps growing. And i would like to have with me as much of it as i can, because my mood for music changes quite often through the day. And prices for SD or CF cards in size greater than 128GB are insane. But i guess i will go with SD/CF solution, because i could use that bit increased battery time. But first i need to deal with complete Home theatre/Hi-fi solution at my crib.
> 
> In mean time, fell free to share your opinions, i would appreciate that


 
  
 This is what I have done - collecting multiple ipods and mod all of them with the 128GB SSD's. These ipods are sold at very low price these days by those none head-fi'ers and I paid from $25 (for a few) to max $60. When you have multiple units, the chance of running out of batteries on all of them simultaneously is essentially zero therefore you always have music to listen. I used to think about getting the 256GB drive to load all my library in one pod but not any more.
  


dr650se said:


> This is the Zagg Invisible Shield.
> http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/apple-video-ipod-60-80gb-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php#apple-video-ipod-60-80gb-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields/149?&_suid=137929195002805684772453365645
> 
> Currently I have had one on my 5.5G iPod for years and my iPod 5.5G is still in mint condition.  Not a scratch on it.  If I were to peel it off the iPod, it would look linke mint condition.
> ...


 
  
 Good idea. I am now using an Alo amp wallet so my ipod is always protected by a transparent cover.


----------



## DR650SE

For me the CF SD card conversation has really helped. It did increase battery life, but I Cnt say how much. My old HDD and battery were pretty worn. But I can get at least a solid 12 hours. I have ha a couple iPod freeze, but not sure if it's related to the SD card. Mostly it was when I was messing with videos. Hasn't happened in a while. Only other issue I had was the SD card not being completely secured and when I dropped the iPod (it's in a solid rubber case) the card slipped out of place. Just opened the ipod reseated the card and all was good. It's a relief knowing I'm that if I drop the iPod, I won't damage a had drive. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR/JB CM 10.2 via Tapatalk II


----------



## DR650SE

Has anyone had the iMod done by one of the vendors on eBay? I'm looking at the vendor in Turkey. Cost is $159 with an LOD. I'd love to send my iPod to Redwine Audio, but they want $250 for the iMod and $195 for the LOD. Is that really worth the improvement? $450??

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=251306223298

Sent from my DROID RAZR/JB CM 10.2 via Tapatalk II


----------



## DMinor

dr650se said:


> For me the CF SD card conversation has really helped. It did increase battery life, but I Cnt say how much. My old HDD and battery were pretty worn. But I can get at least a solid 12 hours. I have ha a couple iPod freeze, but not sure if it's related to the SD card. Mostly it was when I was messing with videos. Hasn't happened in a while. Only other issue I had was the SD card not being completely secured and when I dropped the iPod (it's in a solid rubber case) the card slipped out of place. Just opened the ipod reseated the card and all was good. It's a relief knowing I'm that if I drop the iPod, I won't damage a had drive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Freeze hardly happens to these ipods not like those high-end 'audiophile" daps. It may have happened to me just a couple of times since I started using rockbox.
  
 After the CF card is inserted make sure the adapter is securely positioned. The ribbon cable connecting the board and the CF adapter is sometimes fussy and sensitive to shifting.
  


dr650se said:


> Has anyone had the iMod done by one of the vendors on eBay? I'm looking at the vendor in Turkey. Cost is $159 with an LOD. I'd love to send my iPod to Redwine Audio, but they want $250 for the iMod and $195 for the LOD. Is that really worth the improvement? $450??
> 
> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=251306223298
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR/JB CM 10.2 via Tapatalk II


 
  
 I don't know how the RWA or the ebay seller implements the mod. According to this thread, there are 2 ways of modding. One is soldering to the board only, and the other is direct-out mod by wiring from the dac to the lod output pins directly. Are these mods equal in SQ? I don't know, but I like the direct-out mod and all my mods are done this way.


----------



## Rebkos

Today i have decided to take a leap of faith and finally get rid of those ugly rubber bands, so diymod can show off his private parts due to clear front panel.
  
 I took some industrial double sided ducktape and tape ipod with amp. Looks alright. I just hope it will come off, shall i need it to, without damaging amp and/or ipod


----------



## DR650SE

Looking Good!  I've decided to get a clear panel too since yours looks so good!  Also I think I'm going to get the iMod.  I don't have the skill to do it myself.  Then I can enjoy the great sound in my car, or at home, or wherever.   I'll have to pay for it though.   But I have no doubt it'll be worth it.


----------



## Rebkos

You definitely shoud go for it. I was very sceptic and really doubty about diymod sounds improvments. But when i rockboxed it and stuffed it with music, i was quite amazed. And yesterday, when i run out of battery in amp, i plugged headphones to regular headphones jack and i was stunned how much worse the same flac files on same headphones actually sounded.
  
 Diymoding it your self is not that hard, as it may seems, if you are a bit technically skillful. However you need some equipment, mostly soldering iron capable of doing this small stuff.


----------



## Mr Trev

rebkos said:


> Today i have decided to take a leap of faith and finally get rid of those ugly rubber bands, so diymod can show off his private parts due to clear front panel.
> 
> I took some industrial double sided ducktape and tape ipod with amp. Looks alright. I just hope it will come off, shall i need it to, without damaging amp and/or ipod


 
  
 Try blu-tak. I used it to stick my fiio e6 to the back of my ipod. Holds good, and easish to remove (kinda gotta give it a bit of a twist, easy to clean any remaining residue). The e6 is pretty small, but it should work with bigger amps too. Heck when I had my speakers blu-taked to the stands I could pick em up (sand filled stands and all) just by grabbing onto the speakers.


----------



## DMinor

Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable with completely relying on double-sided tape or blu-tak to hold them together if you are talking about bringing the gear outside.
  
 I use the amp wallet with a clear cover. The clear cover works well with the click wheel. The amp wallet doesn't look fancy but it's practical.


----------



## DR650SE

Quick question guys,

I recently ordered the iMod from Red Wine Audio. Pretty much because I have no experience soldering. Anyway I also ordered the clear iVue cover for my 5.5g iPod. Question is, should in wait till in get the iVue cover before sending the iPod to Red Wine Audio? I have the skill to disassemble the iPod but don't want to risk damaging the iMod aspect. I've worked on tons of computers, and laptops ect. I replaced the iPod battery and HDD with CF->SD. 

Am I better off waiting to send the iPod to RWA after swapping the iVue cover in? Or is it not to risky to swap the cover after the iMod has been done? I don't want to damage anything that's may be real brittle. Thanks for the advice.

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## DMinor

Definitely wait till you get the clear cover and send everything to RWA for the mod. You don't want to risk the finished iMod by reopening it to change anything (not mentioning you may even need to desolder and solder the wires again if you want to change the front cover).


----------



## Rebkos

I don´t see how you would need to solder anyting while changing cover. But i guess it would be better to wait for cover and then send it all together, so you would fell safer.
  
 However, if i personally was to decide, i would send it asap, because i hate waiting and im confident i wouldn´t screw it up  But thats only because im cocky s.o.b., so you rather wait


----------



## DMinor

rebkos said:


> I don´t see how you would need to solder anyting while changing cover. But i guess it would be better to wait for cover and then send it all together, so you would fell safer.
> 
> However, if i personally was to decide, i would send it asap, because i hate waiting and im confident i wouldn´t screw it up  But thats only because im cocky s.o.b., so you rather wait


 
  
 Keep in mind he needs to change the click wheel too. Also I don't know how exactly the RWA iMod is done (they may not mod the way you did), I mean how they wire and where they put the caps (inside the ipod or in the lod). Given that he is not comfortable with soldering or diymod, I wouldn't advise him to reopen the finished imod at all unless he is prepared to handle the unexpected just in case.


----------



## Rebkos

Change click wheel? You mean the plastic cover thats over the click wheel and center button, that you need to put there separately. At least thats what i did. 
  
 I would like to see some pictures of RWA iMod taken apart


----------



## DMinor

If you managed to strip that piece from the click wheel and put on the plastic cover over the wheel, without separating the whole click wheel thing from the board, I think you have done a very nice job. As I recall, it took some effort to strip that thing from the wheel before I put on the plastic cover.
  
 As for the pics on the RWA's iMod, no I haven't seen any.


----------



## Rebkos

Well, it took a bit of time, but i was able to strip it. Maybe my piece was a bit looser, but im quite sure it hasn´t been opened before.
  
 Did you tried various capacitors in your diymod? Were you able tell them apart?


----------



## DMinor

rebkos said:


> Did you tried various capacitors in your diymod? Were you able tell them apart?


 
  
 Yes and yes, and I am still trying new caps. There is an ocean of caps and that's what fun about this diymod thing.
  
 I am also trying all different diy LOD cables made of wires from different sources, and I am a little bit obsessed with these LOD's.


----------



## Rebkos

When i finally get down to changing HDD or adding CF/SD card, i was thinking, while im at it, i might as well change caps for some really good ones. But which one? Black Gate? Do you have some that really outpace others?


----------



## DMinor

Yeah you need to get rid of the HDD asap, even without diymod just for improvement to battery performance. If you still have the thin back plate, replace it with a fat one to give you the internal space much needed for trying different caps. I haven't tried the black gates altho I heard good things about them. Wima's are pretty good. To my ears the Wima's sounded better than the Elan Silmic's. Just keep trying different ones until you find your own winners.


----------



## DR650SE

dminor said:


> Definitely wait till you get the clear cover and send everything to RWA for the mod. You don't want to risk the finished iMod by reopening it to change anything (not mentioning you may even need to desolder and solder the wires again if you want to change the front cover).


 
  
 Thats what I'm thinking as well.  I'd love to have it ASAP, but I don't want to risk damaging the iMod, and have to send it back.
  


rebkos said:


> I don´t see how you would need to solder anyting while changing cover. But i guess it would be better to wait for cover and then send it all together, so you would fell safer.
> 
> However, if i personally was to decide, i would send it asap, because i hate waiting and im confident i wouldn´t screw it up  But thats only because im cocky s.o.b., so you rather wait


 
  
 Yea, I normally am too, but I don't have the equiptment, or knowledge of soldering where I'm at.  But I definately want it ASAP.  Just sucks waiting. 
  
 I know when RWA does the iMod, the put the caps in the LOD, at least for the 5.5G iPod.  So I guess theoretically, if I wanted to try new caps, I could just get a new LOD with other caps, correct?  A little easier, and less intrusive on the iPod.  Eventually I may take apart the iPod to see how RWA does it exactly, but may not be at the top of my list.  Though I'm a curious guy lol.


----------



## DMinor

dr650se said:


> I know when RWA does the iMod, the put the caps in the LOD, at least for the 5.5G iPod.  So I guess theoretically, if I wanted to try new caps,* I could just get a new LOD with other caps, correct?*  A little easier, and less intrusive on the iPod.  Eventually I may take apart the iPod to see how RWA does it exactly, but may not be at the top of my list.  Though I'm a curious guy lol.


 
  
 That's correct. But the dock has more limited space than an ipod with the fat back plate to accommodate the caps. In other words, the caps which fit inside the ipod may not fit in the dock.


----------



## coacharnold

I'm just discovering this DIY ipod discussion ....and I have a trust old ipod to do the mod to .... I just can't seen to find a coherent tutorial. I know it's on this list somewhere ...but I have been trying to find it for days .....can someone help...
  
 I do the mod.... do I loose the headphone out??  is there a way to do it an keep the headphone out ...
  
 if i mess with the doc connector inside the ipod ...... am i messing up it's ability to connect to my computer or charge?
  
 how about rockbox .... any reason that won't work?
  
 Thanks for the help .... I'm interested in hacking this thing,.
  
 T


----------



## DR650SE

Depends on if you have a 4th Gen iPod or 5th/5.5g iPod. Let's start there. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR/JB CM 10.2 via Tapatalk II


----------



## coacharnold

OK .....4th Gen U2 Click wheel


----------



## DR650SE

From what I understand, the 4th Gen the iMod basically renders the headphone plug useless for controlling volume.  You'd have to run it through an amp.  The 5th Gen iMod runs the sound out of the line out bottom port, therefore the headphone plug is untouched and remains usable, but the improved sound quality is only accessable through the bottom port.
  
 Here is a little info, and in the next few weeks I'm sending my 5.5G iPod to Redwine Audio for the upgrade. Being deployed I don't have access to the tools or an environment that would allow me to do the work.  Not to mention I have never soldered before. 
http://redwineaudio.com/mods/imod


----------



## Rebkos

coacharnold said:


> I'm just discovering this DIY ipod discussion ....and I have a trust old ipod to do the mod to .... I just can't seen to find a coherent tutorial. I know it's on this list somewhere ...but I have been trying to find it for days .....can someone help...
> 
> I do the mod.... do I loose the headphone out??  is there a way to do it an keep the headphone out ...
> 
> ...


 
  
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/bsjfcx34cguw42h/first%20page%20diymod.rar
  
 This is an old first page from this topic, you can find pretty much everything there.


----------



## FARfromHOME

Hi
  
  
 Have you had problems with sd cards using flac files.
 I have tarkan adapter + cf to sd (came with adapter) + trancend 128 gb sdxc.
 Using Rockbox on 5.5 30gb board (32 mb ram).
 With half of the tracks it jumps to the next one just before end (sometimes half way through).
 Used same files on normal hard drive with no problems.
 Yet when "winding" it forward, end of it play fine. But will mess it up with next track..





  
 Any ideas?


----------



## DMinor

farfromhome said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> Have you had problems with sd cards using flac files.
> ...


 
  
 I am using the same SDXC card (with same Tarkan adapter) in one of my ipods and I don't have the issue. I only use Rockbox to play my music.
  
 Edit: How did you copy your files to the card? If you have not done so, boot the ipod to Apple's original firmware as enabled disk for copying files.


----------



## FARfromHOME

That's weird.
 Tried your way: copy in official firmware.
 Seems to work fine.
 Is Rockbox not doing it's job correctly?
 Thanks Dminor


----------



## DMinor

farfromhome said:


> That's weird.
> Tried your way: copy in official firmware.
> Seems to work fine.
> Is Rockbox not doing it's job correctly?
> Thanks Dminor


 
  
 Glad it worked for you and BTW welcome to the Head-fi.
  
 There are some cards which may not be compatible with rockbox for file transfer, and the Transcend is one of them. I had trouble copying files to that card initially using the rockbox. Credit goes to another head-fi'er whose post led me to resolve the issue.
  
 I like the Transcend cards they are quality cards.


----------



## DMinor

Finally found a pic showing the RWA iMod, which seems to be the same as what other head-fi'ers have done here.


----------



## Rebkos

+1 for pic.
  
 That wire seems quite thin.


----------



## DR650SE

Hmm, I just sent payment to RWA since I have no soldering skills and no environment or tools conducive to doing the work here. Looks like I'll be sending my iPod after I put the clear iVue case on the iPod. Just don't want to damage the iMod swapping the case. 

Would thin wire be a good or bad thing? Good as in less resistance offered? Bad as in fragile?

I suppose having someone else do the work professionally and stand behind it would be worth the $250 in my case beind deployed. I hope anyway, just spent the money 

Sent from my DROID RAZR/JB CM 10.2 via Tapatalk II


----------



## coacharnold

OK ..... trying to do a mod on the 4G ipod .... all i get from the guide you guys sent .....(that works ) is this 
  
 does everyone agree .... don't remove the caps and inductors?
  
 how about wiring .... is it all the same .... if I want to keep the headphone out up ...... and make the line out work .... what caps should I use .... are they needed?   do i have to build a dock connector ..... can I fit caps in me case ....
  
  
 there's a lot of information on the forum and it's not very step by step clear..
  
 T
  
  
  
  
*C.A** iPod 4G photo* - done by vvs_75, KerryKing, no_eye_dear, funch


> _*Notice*_ - Do not remove caps and inductors. Simply solder wires to and from the correct pads. Removing C's and L's will increase the risk of lifting the pads and disabling any type of audio output from your logic board.
> 
> *Figure C.A*
> Take the signals from the *north* pad. Please note that the board is upside down here, and north refers to the end of the board at which the headphone jack lies. Thanks for hounding me, funch.
> ...


----------



## DMinor

@DR650SE:
 Don't worry about it as the RWA's iMod's have been around for a long time. If there is anything wrong just send it back and I am sure they will take care of your iMod.
  
 I used both 28awg and 30awg wires (solid core) for my mods, and so far none of them had any issues with the wires. As long as the wires are secured from being shifted around it should be fine. The weak spot is the wire point immediately adjacent to the soldered joint.
  
 Stranded wires may do better against bending. I am thinking about modding one with these stranded wires in the future.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pure-Silver-9999-Stranded-Wire-29AWG-Teflon-Audio-Cable-/110536892795?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item19bc83217b
  
  
 @coacharnold:
 Sorry I have never modded any 4G's so no comments on that. For the 5g/5.5g, I only remove the pair of Z caps by the dac - that's the only thing I remove. Then I lift the two dock pins (for both L and R audio channels) off the board and wire the pins directly to the dac. So it's a little different from RWA's imod. By going to the pins directly the board circuit is completely bypassed after dac - at least that's my understanding.


----------



## Rebkos

dminor said:


> Stranded wires may do better against bending. I am thinking about modding one with these stranded wires in the future.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pure-Silver-9999-Stranded-Wire-29AWG-Teflon-Audio-Cable-/110536892795?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item19bc83217b


 
 Thats the one i used in my diymod. I cant say if its worth it, i dont have any other experience with different wires.
  
 That seller even ships it with chemical analysis on paper, and it looks authentic


----------



## DMinor

rebkos said:


> Thats the one i used in my diymod. I cant say if its worth it, i dont have any other experience with different wires.
> 
> That seller even ships it with chemical analysis on paper, and it looks authentic


 
  
 For my last mod I used the pure silver wires (30awg) from Homegrown Audio. I can't compare it with my other mods neither since I also used different caps. But all these mods now sound fantastic to my ears and I really don't care or intentionally look for the difference. All I want is to enjoy my music while having some fun from diying. I think this hobby can last for while till I find a new one.


----------



## DMinor

I am wondering any head-fi'ers played with a cap box - something like this.
  
 Those caps can be very expensive.


----------



## FARfromHOME

Which amp?
 Got refurbished Headstage Arrow 3G yesterday. Don't like it. As they don't give money back guarantee, only 2 years warranty. I'll have to sell it.
 I have listened imods through HiFi or portable recorders.
 Both sound better than Arrow 3G.
 What do you recommend.


----------



## DMinor

farfromhome said:


> Which amp?
> Got refurbished Headstage Arrow 3G yesterday. Don't like it. As they don't give money back guarantee, only 2 years warranty. I'll have to sell it.
> I have listened imods through HiFi or portable recorders.
> Both sound better than Arrow 3G.
> What do you recommend.


 
  
 I have both the Alo Rx MK2 and the UHA-6S MK2. The UHA-6S MK2 is a brilliant amp to my ears. I have nothing but great things to say about this amp and Nick at Leckerton. Nick is really a gentleman who has been so patient with me whenever I have a question.


----------



## FARfromHOME

Which Op-amp do you have in UHA-6S MK2.

 On the website they have 4 options.
 I know nothing about Op-amps.
 Thanks DMinor


----------



## DMinor

farfromhome said:


> Which Op-amp do you have in UHA-6S MK2.
> 
> On the website they have 4 options.
> I know nothing about Op-amps.
> Thanks DMinor


 
  
 I have the AD8610. I have never tried other op-amp's because this one just sounds right to my ears.
  
 You may be aware Leckerton will be releasing a new version of this amp soon.
  
 The UHA-6S Mk2 sounds airy and transparent and neutral, while my Alo Rx Mk2 sounds a little laidback and bassy and less transparent. If I just want to own one amp, no doubt the UHA is the one to stay. But from time to time, I switch to the Alo for a change of flavor or when the UHA needs recharging. Plus I have an army of diyimods (for hobby) so having just one amp seems out of proportion.  LOL.


----------



## coacharnold

HELP !!!!!!
  
 Ok ... so every time I look in this post I think i have down exactly what I need to do ..... then I read more and there is a set of posts that contradict my previous posts ..... can someone help!!!   I have a 4th gen ipod Click wheel .......
  
 what caps do I take off ??
  
 C84 and C86?
  
 what inductors come off? or do they have to be removed??
  
 L2 and L3?
  
 OR should I leave them on .......  
  
 AM I running wires from C84 & C86 around to L2 & L3?  
  
 Then where do the Caps go .... right before L2 and L3 ??
  
 AND thats it????
  
  
 Please ...this seems like it's so easy .... but i can't sort out exactly what to do 
  
 THANKS
  
 Tim


----------



## FARfromHOME

Have a look here: http://www.ualberta.ca/~jple/diyMod/
 From the menu select "Guides"


----------



## coacharnold

The 4g guide just has pictures of the specific points and doesn't show exactly what gets connected to what..... and as I said this 185 page multi year forum post is a little contradicting in places at exactly what to do ....
  
 I just need a clear 3 or four sentence explanation ..... do the caps and inductors get removed? .... then where do the new caps go in the wiring ..... from the caps off the DAC in between the inductor caps?......  what get wired to what .... and yes I've read the guide and the forum so please don't direct to them


----------



## thegrobe

coacharnold said:


> The 4g guide just has pictures of the specific points and doesn't show exactly what gets connected to what..... and as I said this 185 page multi year forum post is a little contradicting in places at exactly what to do ....
> 
> I just need a clear 3 or four sentence explanation ..... do the caps and inductors get removed? .... then where do the new caps go in the wiring ..... from the caps off the DAC in between the inductor caps?......  what get wired to what .... and yes I've read the guide and the forum so please don't direct to them


 
  
 The reason these is contradicting information is because there are different ways of completing the mod. You need to read and understand the methods then decide which you want to try, take into account what you are comfortable with. 
  
 Basically, you want to remove the "Z" caps. Solder wires on the pads there to pick up the signal from the DAC. The caps then go on this wire, then out to your amp.... The way you get that signal out to your amp differs. You can solder to the board, as the guide says, with the option of leaving or removing those other caps and inductors. Personally, I would remove them if you choose this method. The other method is to bypass the board entirely and solder to the line out pins. Be sure to choose the proper value caps, matching the input impedance of the amp you plan to use. In no scenario will you need more than 8uf.


----------



## coacharnold

thegrobe said:


> In no scenario will you need more than 8uf.


 
  
 This is the exact reason I'm asking for some help......  all of the guides so far seem to be suggesting 47uf caps ...... which is it?


----------



## thegrobe

coacharnold said:


> This is the exact reason I'm asking for some help......  all of the guides so far seem to be suggesting 47uf caps ...... which is it?


 
  
 I told you already...
  
 Here is a handy calculator to figure what value you need. I don't know why people would choose a 47uf cap. I can't answer that. Maybe the fabled "black gate" caps that are filled with fairy farts and dragon sweat are widely available in 47uf. Who knows. Your guess is as good as mine. 
  
http://www.v-cap.com/coupling-capacitor-calculator.php
  
 What amplifier will you be using primarily? Do you know the input impedance?
  
 Use your input impedance number, plug it into that calculator and get your value. If you are unsure, just choose 4.7uf. It should get the job done in mostly all situations. If possible, use film caps from Wima or other manufacturers. In my opinion, they sound better than electrolytic caps and are better suited in the signal path, less leakage, etc. Don't get roped into any other pixie dust nonsense like "super" caps. Science is your friend...the proper caps are not a matter of guesswork.


----------



## caseyfriday

If anyone is looking for a protective skin for the iPod 5G, I'd highly suggest getting a Best Skins Ever shield.
  
 http://www.bestskinsever.com/media-players/apple/5g-video-ipod-total-body-skin?mode=list&
  
 It's much cheaper than the Zagg skin, and the only difference is that it doesn't come with the soapy water spray, but you can just mix that yourself (I always do).  I've used BSE's quite often, and I'm always very happy with the way they work.


----------



## DR650SE

Dang, I'm king to have to remember that skin. Gotta book mark the link. I've had a Zagg on my 5.5G for years and just bought another a couple weeks ago since I ordered a clear new iVue front plate. I'll keep that link handy for future iPod  

Sent from my DROID RAZR/JB CM 10.2 via Tapatalk II now Free


----------



## Pentagonal

Hey guys! Thanks for the great help posted on this thread! This is my first post on Head-Fi, and I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere, but here it goes.
  
 Today I finished DIYmodding an iPod 5g. I put 6.3v 47uF Elna Silmic II caps inside (with the positive lead running to the DAC) with the help of Tarkan's CF adapter, and ran silver wire from the pads to the dock pins. 
  
 After closing it shut, I tested it with a multimeter and was shocked to discover the DC offset reading .5 volts on both channels! While not identical, L and R were consistently high and the measurement seemed to spike to 1.1 volts when the + and - probes first made their connections. The AC voltage measurement moves to the music so at least it appears to somewhat work, and the headphone out still reads 0 mV. 
  
 I don't want to risk plugging it into any amp, at least not until it's down to safe levels. Could it be that the caps are charging up somehow? Maybe putting in resistors to ground would help? What do you guys think I should do? 
  
 Have a nice day!
 Pentagonal 
  
 EDIT: Here is a picture of inside - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9k3yfcn2vlpTm5LblRiZzRZMms/edit?usp=sharing 
 And here's a microscope close up of the pads - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9k3yfcn2vlpVnhlY0V4d0FzaXc/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## Athur126

Are your caps in the correct polarity? That might be the problem. Also I've had problems trying to fight the 2.2uf Kermets into a slim back. Any advice to get them into the correct position? I got the flat rectangular ones.


----------



## Pentagonal

If you are using Tarkan's adapter, consider trimming off the area above the CF card and sliding the unit up (you can use double sided tape to keep it still afterwards). That would open up a good amount of space below, more than enough for the Silmics and maybe enough for the Kemets. Out of curiosity, how do they match up with the depth of the slim back? 
  
 I found the reason behind the dc offset problem - it turns out that the metal top of the left channel Silmic was touching the metal frame. When it's receiving a 1.5v charge (I used an AA battery), the top lets out around .6v! This raised the ground potential of the iPod to .6v for everything, not just the audio out. Unfortunately I found out too late and the logic board stopped working. 
  
 Maybe now I'll order a new logic board and some Kemets


----------



## DMinor

athur126 said:


> Are your caps in the correct polarity? That might be the problem. Also I've had problems trying to fight the 2.2uf Kermets into a slim back. Any advice to get them into the correct position? I got the flat rectangular ones.


 
  
 I never tried to fit any caps in a slim back. All my pods are or are converted with the thick back giving the max space for more cap options. With the thick back, I believe you can go as thick as 8mm caps.
  
  
 Quote:


pentagonal said:


> Hey guys! Thanks for the great help posted on this thread! This is my first post on Head-Fi, and I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere, but here it goes.
> 
> Today I finished DIYmodding an iPod 5g. I put 6.3v 47uF Elna Silmic II caps inside (with the positive lead running to the DAC) with the help of Tarkan's CF adapter, and ran silver wire from the pads to the dock pins.
> 
> ...


 
 Quote:


pentagonal said:


> If you are using Tarkan's adapter, consider trimming off the area above the CF card and sliding the unit up (you can use double sided tape to keep it still afterwards). That would open up a good amount of space below, more than enough for the Silmics and maybe enough for the Kemets. Out of curiosity, how do they match up with the depth of the slim back?
> 
> I found the reason behind the dc offset problem - it turns out that the metal top of the left channel Silmic was touching the metal frame. When it's receiving a 1.5v charge (I used an AA battery), the top lets out around .6v! This raised the ground potential of the iPod to .6v for everything, not just the audio out. Unfortunately I found out too late and the logic board stopped working.
> 
> Maybe now I'll order a new logic board and some Kemets


 
  
 Man sorry to hear that on the board. However, from my firsthand experience I believe the “harm” normally considered from the dc offset is probably exaggerated.  I have tried many caps from 4.7uf to 3f. What I have found is the 4.7uf film caps have presented no dc offsets. The high-capacitance caps, the ones I have tried, have showed wild swing of fluctuating dc offsets ranging from 1.2 volts to zero depending on when it is measured. Have I plugged the pods to my amp with the 1.2 volts of dc offset input? You bet, of course I have checked with the amp maker before I did. No harm to either amp or iem’s, no distortion to the sound neither (to my ears). In fact and unfortunately, these caps with the dc offsets happen to be my favorite caps and I now listen to dc-offseted music every day and can’t be any more happier.
  
 Personally, I am no longer concerned about any dc offset up to 1.2 volts as these caps have been tested long enough myself. Now I know guys believe science and so do I, but I keep open minded when it comes to diy and sound. I let my ears to be the judge. I am blessed with the opportunity to check this out myself thanks to diy.
  
 With that said, try at your own risk and better check with your amp maker if there are dc offsets. I can only speak for my own gears.


----------



## DMinor

Guys if you have not tried diy a LOD like this, then you need to try one.
  
 Make a LOD using four *different* types of wires (one each for L and R, two for grounds). What I am telling you is the L & R wires don't have to be the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I do recommend the two channel wires are made of one silver/gold and one pure silver.


----------



## FARfromHOME

Mundorf silver/gold + Wima 47uF 0.47uF 5% (some epoxy to fix)


----------



## FARfromHOME

finished "product"


----------



## FARfromHOME

What benefit do you get from mixing wires?


----------



## FARfromHOME

I'll make one with 22uF 5% next. Sounds better imo.


----------



## DMinor

I would suggest having a heat shrink tube (the 3:1 ratio dual walls) for the LOD where the wires are coming out of the dock. Nice work tho with that tight space.
  
 Personally I have not put any caps in the docks for my lod's as all my caps have been placed inside the ipods with the thick plates. Reason being more spaces for cap options, also I could easily replace the caps if needed.
  
 On the lod with all different wires, it's worth the try for a different sound. You ears/brain won't be able to tell the imbalanced L/R wires but the overall sound difference could be discernible.


----------



## DMinor

I think I got a little crazy about the LOD's. Here is my 1st diy LOD using the Mundorf silver/gold wires. Since then I have made five more LOD's with quality wires bought from all different sources. I have also tried all kinds of plugs and like to try the new ones. The most difficult plug to work with is the Pailiccs (the original version), but it looks really nice and compact. These are the plugs I have tried so far:
  
 Viablue (overall the best)
 Switchcraft (heavy-duty with solid built)
 Neutrik (good and inexpensive)
 Pailiccs (hard to work with but a sexy spinner)
 Valab Rhodium Plated (nice carbon fiber housing but looks husky)


----------



## FARfromHOME

There is heat shrink tube.

 It's clear. 
 I'll use macro lens next time to get better image...
 The reason I put caps outside is: nothing beats pure flow from dac (direct out). I have portable recorders witch allow me to adjust input signal.


----------



## DMinor

Haha I missed that clear tube. Sorry about that.
  
 Not sure if any difference between caps in and out of ipod. The real pure flow (to amp) should be no caps at all. Next time I will try one without caps, and if the measured dc offset is around 1.2 volts I won't hesitate to plug it into my amp for a test drive.


----------



## FARfromHOME

Sorry for not explaining myself clearly.
  
 I listen without caps. Using portable recorder.
 I'm trying different caps in order to make it usable with other gear.
 So far my favorites are: film- Wima 22uF 5%, electrolytic (have not done much listening due to low resistor tolerance 20%)- Nichicon KZ 47uF


----------



## DMinor

farfromhome said:


> Sorry for not explaining myself clearly.
> 
> I listen without caps. Using portable recorder.
> I'm trying different caps in order to make it usable with other gear.
> So far my favorites are: film- Wima 22uF 5%, electrolytic (have not done much listening due to low resistor tolerance 20%)- Nichicon KZ 47uF


 
  
 Interesting. Why are you not concerned about the dc offsets from ipod LOD to your portable recorder? Have you ever measured the dc offsets from ipod's LOD using the direct-out mod without caps? Can you post a pic showing how the ipod is connected to your portable recorder?  Thanks.


----------



## FARfromHOME

I connect lod to "line in" in recorder. I have not measured dc offset. Suspect it to be pretty high. When using the recored with microphones the input levels have to be around 8 (max: 10). With imod around 2.


----------



## DMinor

How does it sound on your recorder (without caps) compared to LOD to your other amp's (with caps)?
  
 Actually my amp maker told me the amp has no problem receiving a few volts of dc offsets, although the highest dc offset I have measured so far was around 1.2 volts. I was also told the amp (I have) will cancel the dc offsets immediately before the audio output to the iem's.
  
 What's interesting is these high-capacitance caps never keep constant dc offsets and they fluctuate all the time. It really doesn't bother me as long as there are no harms to my gears or I don't hear any distortions to the sound.


----------



## FARfromHOME

Love it without caps! Probably closest to the original recording? The problem (imo) with film caps is loosing bass.22uF does not cut off as much as 47uF. 
 I briefly tried Nichicon KZ 47uF 25V and was surprised. It does not seem to cut bass at all? But tolerance is 20% witch makes it inferior to film caps.


----------



## DMinor

If you ears tell you those Nichicon caps sound better why bother with the 20% tolerance?
  
 One thing I thought about the mod is to go a little bit further and try to disable and/or remove the junks from the PCB and just leave things barely needed for LOD. Even tho the internal amp is bypassed with the direct-out mod, at the same time the headphone line out is still sending audio. We don't know how and/or if this thing affects the SQ, well at least we know it draws power from battery. So I would like to disable/remove the unnecessary things, hopefully without killing the PCB.


----------



## FARfromHOME

Nichicon's are only better in bass. Film caps are overall winners.
 Do you know signal route on pcb?


----------



## DMinor

I don't know about the signal route. But I think one can throw away the phone jack cable (unless you need that hold switch). Also even with the wires directly from the dac to the lod pins, we can still remove those unnecessary caps and/or resistors used by the internal amp.


----------



## FARfromHOME

Let us know how much you'll be able to remove/disable.


----------



## DMinor

Now on LOD, I have some good news about mixing the wires again and here is my favorite LOD up to this point of all the LOD's I have tried.
  
 R Channel: Toxic Silver Poison
 L Channel:  Qables Silver/Gold
 Ground 1: Plussound 26 AWG 7N Pure UP-OCC Cryo Copper Litz Custom Wire
 Ground 2: Homegrown Pure Copper
  
 My take is the mixed R and L wires make the primary difference, and I feel the silver/gold wire must be one of them.
  
 Try guys and you don't have to try exactly what I did. In fact, your gears may be different from mine and my results may not be yours.


----------



## FARfromHOME

Got some big ones today:
  

  


 These are Metallized Polypropylene. 
 I recently made a mistake getting .47 instead of 4.7uF... Should not order online when tired...


----------



## thegrobe

farfromhome said:


> Got some big ones today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I used very similar polypropylene caps in my mod- except mkp10. 3.3uf/250/10. Put them in an altoids tin attached to the back of the iPod. Nice sound but big! A little improvement over polyester film caps, and big improvement over any electrolytics.


----------



## beacon1993

Hi is it possible to reupp the frist page ?


----------



## Rebkos

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bsjfcx34cguw42h/first%20page%20diymod.rar
  
 there you go


----------



## DR650SE

I'm so pumped right now. Just got the notification email that my iMod has been shipped from Red Wine Audio. Had my 5.5G iMod sent in since I can't do it here as I'm deployed overseas. Should be shipping with the ALO LOD.   Can't wait to hear it. Should be here in two weeks. Going to be pairing it with my Fiio E17 and DT 880 250ohm cans  

I had also modded the iMod with the CF adaptor, 128GB SD card, new battery, (highest capacity I could find) and a clear front faceplate. 

Should definitely be a unique iPod/setup.  That email just made my day. 

Sent from XT912 / CM10.2


----------



## FARfromHOME

I have one 5.5 with faulty amp. Using direct out with z caps removed - Lod is clean.

 But headphone out has crosstalk and noise. Is there a way to completely disable internal headphone amp? Which components have to be removed? Signal route...


----------



## Punnisher

This may be a longshot, but I have a question on diymodding an iriver h120 and h320.
  
 I want to mod the line out on both, and would prefer to use external coupling capacitors for the sake of easy experimentation with different caps. With the internal circuitry of the irivers, is it a viable option to short the pads for the stock capacitors and use capacitors after the 3.5mm line out?
  
 The reason I ask is because I don't know if there's internal circuitry after the capacitors that depends on DC offset being blocked. I will likely find out once I open my players for inspection but wanted to throw this out there.
  


dr650se said:


> I'm so pumped right now. Just got the notification email that my iMod has been shipped from Red Wine Audio. Had my 5.5G iMod sent in since I can't do it here as I'm deployed overseas. Should be shipping with the ALO LOD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  
 Would love to see pictures and impressions.


----------



## FARfromHOME

I'm planning to sell most of my Imods. Too many...


----------



## no_eye_dear

Long time since I've been on here...
  
 Don't forget guys that with certain designs of amp you can DC couple your amp/iMod without using caps
 Especially on a portable rig that uses separate batteries.
 I had mine running that way for over a year but installed caps so I could use it on other devices.


----------



## Punnisher

no_eye_dear said:


> Long time since I've been on here...
> 
> Don't forget guys that with certain designs of amp you can DC couple your amp/iMod without using caps
> Especially on a portable rig that uses separate batteries.
> I had mine running that way for over a year but installed caps so I could use it on other devices.


 
 Do you mean that certain amps have coupling capacitors on their analog inputs? This is definitely true for some amps. The amps I have (RSA Tomahawk and Meier 2move) do not, so I'll need to use caps no matter what.
  
 Though if your portable amp already has them, by all means it's better to not add anything additional in the chain.


----------



## FARfromHOME

no_eye_dear said:


> Long time since I've been on here...
> 
> Don't forget guys that with certain designs of amp you can DC couple your amp/iMod without using caps
> Especially on a portable rig that uses separate batteries.
> I had mine running that way for over a year but installed caps so I could use it on other devices.


 

 I did all my imods this way. Have used caps in lod cables (not always easy to fit).


----------



## no_eye_dear

punnisher said:


> Do you mean that certain amps have coupling capacitors on their analog inputs? This is definitely true for some amps. The amps I have (RSA Tomahawk and Meier 2move) do not, so I'll need to use caps no matter what.
> 
> Though if your portable amp already has them, by all means it's better to not add anything additional in the chain.


 
 Hi buddy
 Yes and No ....
 Yes, if your amp has input caps you can omit them in the iMod but you can also couple certain amps by putting the negative rail at the same DC potential to prevent it from flowing down the signal path.. Look at the datasheet of the DAC for DC Coupling schematic.


----------



## caseyfriday

I'm hosting a sale today at RetroSonicFidelity, for those of you that don't want to build the diyMods yourself.  I have a 3G touchwheel, a couple minis, and some standard (non-modded) minis.
  
 I'll be doing another sale on Black Friday weekend, but I figured I'd let you folks know about today's sale, if you don't want to go buy a soldering iron, caps, wire, etc.


----------



## Varoudis

Any pointers to a micro electronics repair shop on london that might help me with this? I have experinece with things like this but this one is really small for my eyes!


----------



## FARfromHOME

All with direct out

  


 slim - tarkan adapter with 128GB SD, two 60GB and one 80GB


----------



## Varoudis

farfromhome said:


> All with direct out
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Located?


----------



## FARfromHOME

London, UK


----------



## DR650SE

Got my iMod back from Red Wine Audio  Don't have the skill or working environment conducive to doing the work myself.  Loving it! 

iMod 5.5G, clear iVue front cover, Zagg Invisible Shield, clear Griffin case, Tarken CF Adaptor, 128GB SD card, ALO iMod LOD, Fiio E17 amp. 

My pride and joy 




































Sent from XT912 / CM10.2


----------



## no_eye_dear

Don't get me wrong, it's all about ability and finance...... but this is a DIY thread 
  
 ... and I'm going to comment on 'that' level of modification... sorry, can't hold myself back
 A simple (and not very tidy) bypass rewire for that price is utterly ridiculous.
 I would (and did for some time) supply fully bypassed modifications (DAC to Pins) for a fraction of the price.
 And that included internal caps..
  
 Huge apologies for my outburst
 Standing down off my soapbox
  
 Bye


----------



## Varoudis

no_eye_dear said:


> Don't get me wrong, it's all about ability and finance...... but this is a DIY thread
> 
> ... and I'm going to comment on 'that' the level of modification... sorry, can't hold myself back
> A simple (and not very tidy) bypass rewire for that price is utterly ridiculous.
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## DR650SE

Rog

Sent from XT912 / CM10.2


----------



## no_eye_dear

never mind your age..... anyone can have a go


----------



## cogsand gears

no_eye_dear said:


> I would (and did for some time) supply fully bypassed modifications (DAC to Pins) for a fraction of the price.
> And that included internal caps..


 
 Very true. High quality work indeed!


----------



## Varoudis

Every market liket he "audiophole" is more then 90% magic stardust.... I strongly beleive the 99% in this forum (including me) pay way more that their knowledge...

200usd cables etc...
Smart people can easily take advantage of that and we like it! Heheh


----------



## FARfromHOME

About 7 months ago bought: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MUNDORF-Silver-Gold-LOD-for-IPOD-IPHONE-/281206005481?pt=UK_MP3_Player_Accessories_Cables_Adapters&hash=item41792f1ee9
  
  
  
 Now I can make this (with Wima 4.7uF 63V 5% inside) for around (depending wire) £15 Probably less...


----------



## cogsand gears

farfromhome said:


> About 7 months ago bought: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MUNDORF-Silver-Gold-LOD-for-IPOD-IPHONE-/281206005481?pt=UK_MP3_Player_Accessories_Cables_Adapters&hash=item41792f1ee9
> 
> 
> 
> Now I can make this (with Wima 4.7uF 63V 5% inside) for around than £15


 
 Looks very nice. Lovely sleeving on the cable.
  
 That's part of the reason I started to DIY LOD's and IEM cables and all that. I was after a low profile side exit LOD, and at the time all I could find were the likes of ALO etc. Didn't  have the money for those, so had a go myself.


----------



## FARfromHOME

Thank you.
 Where did you find side exit connector?
 Qables don't to sell them any more.


----------



## FARfromHOME

Got some Mundorf silver/gold wire thinking... well, not much

 A few days later found: http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/11/believe-in-better.cfm


----------



## DR650SE

Once I return to the states, I will start DIYing, but where the Army sent me, I'm not in the best environment to DIY, and access to anything is limited. I'll have to wait to get home sometime next spring to start looking for iPod at the local pawn shops to practice DIY projects.  In the meantime I will take a back seat and just read through this thread.


----------



## no_eye_dear

farfromhome said:


> Got some Mundorf silver/gold wire thinking... well, not much
> 
> A few days later found: http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/11/believe-in-better.cfm


 
  
 I've read a lot of 'audiophile' debunking articles over the years but I've never seen the AKDL1 cable.. 
 I literally LOL'd and cried laughing at the reviews on Amazon just now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... absolutely hillarious!!!!


----------



## CanadianMaestro

Just bought an iMod with a 160GB drive, ALO LOD included. Unbelievable price. The owner had added the larger hd himself after buying from RWA back in August. Should arrive next week or so.  I have a 7G Classic, and it sounds pretty good, compared it to my 5G 80GB, and heard very slight differences. Hoping to get bigger improvements with the iMod, but at that price, I could not resist.
  
 Anybody here A/B the 7G with 5G iMod, lossless files?


----------



## robump

Hi,
  
 Do you think i could get away with the following Kemet caps?
  
 http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/polyester-film-capacitors/0191979/
  
 They are rated at 63 volts not the 50v that were recommended on the link below but are 4.7uF: 
  
 http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/MMK5475K50J06L165TR18/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1cc3ydrPrF4Cr/vHpDzYXwcNVe015xcs=
  
 Thanks for your help!


----------



## DMinor

canadianmaestro said:


> Anybody here A/B the 7G with 5G iMod, lossless files?


 
  
 I have both. The 5G DIY imod in my case blows the 7G out of water. In fact, it may blow out many other high-end daps out of water. I know many won't believe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


robump said:


> Hi,
> 
> Do you think i could get away with the following Kemet caps?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The voltage is fine, whether 50 or 63. It's the size of the caps you want to make sure they will fit. With the Tarkan card, you can easily fit the pair of the 50V caps inside ipod (with the fat back plate). With the 63V caps, you will need trim the Tarkan aggressively in order to fit the caps. Trim the Tarkan at your own risk.


----------



## Varoudis

dminor said:


> I have both. The 5G DIY imod in my case blows the 7G out of water. In fact, it may blow out many other high-end daps out of water. I know many won't believe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 As Im in the UK too. Can you please let me know it these caps are in the right size?
 What are other options we can find in the UK?
  
 Ill get the cable you linked above too. In terms of a LOD connector, where do you get the ones I see that are big and can accommodate also the caps inside?
  
 Thanks


----------



## CanadianMaestro

varoudis said:


> In terms of a LOD connector, where do you get the ones I see that are big and can accommodate also the caps inside?
> Thanks


 
  
 I just ordered an iMod RCA-LOD with Blackgate caps inside the LOD connector. From Bogac Tekman. He is in Turkey, and ships for free, with tracking. btekman2000@gmail.com  He's also on eBay under "Audio Minor".
 Great-sounding cables at prices that destroy other makers.


----------



## junkers

What is the sound quality of this mod in a 4th gen click wheel (just use some Elna caps for example) compared to some desktop DACs like the ODAC or Modi? Does anyone prefer their diyMod compared to a dedicated desktop DAC, or is this trying to get the best _portable_ setup possible?


----------



## robump

varoudis said:


> Hi,
> 
> As Im in the UK too. Can you please let me know it these caps are in the right size?
> What are other options we can find in the UK?
> ...


 
 Im thinking i could order us some from mouser in the US and we could split the postage and import charges?
  
 Let me know what you think.


----------



## Varoudis

it has to be mouser US? I think there is  a uk one too. 
 Is it a US specific item or the price?
  
 I can order some things from the states and get them personally around 5th of Jan back to the UK (London).


----------



## robump

I think its a US specific item as the on the UK mouser site the shipping cost is £12 and takes 11 weeks!


----------



## Varoudis

robump said:


> I think its a US specific item as the on the UK mouser site the shipping cost is £12 and takes 11 weeks!


 
 Can you post a list of items needed from the US site to check?


----------



## robump

varoudis said:


> Can you post a list of items needed from the US site to check?


 
 I think these are the correct ones?
  
 http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/MMK5475K50J06L165TR18/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1cc3ydrPrF4Cr/vHpDzYXwcNVe015xcs=
  
 Thanks


----------



## Varoudis

Wow tgis thing is really small!!! It is crazy how small the connections are!!!

Im getting too old i think!


----------



## robump

varoudis said:


> Wow tgis thing is really small!!! It is crazy how small the connections are!!!
> 
> Im getting too old i think!


 
 Do you think the ones i posted above are the correct caps?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Varoudis

Others are more informed than me, but I thibk this is one of the recommended


----------



## Varoudis

What type of soldering iron do you use? Any Uk link?
 What temperature? the dock connection is extremely small! I can't believe how DIYer here do it without experience in components like that...


----------



## caseyfriday

I use a Weller WLC100, with a specific small tip that I got at a local electronics shop (called Altex, in the US).
  
 I got my degree in Electrical Engineering, so I had a bit of practice at school doing soldering.  Also made it easier for me to understand the HPF built into the 3G mod.


----------



## e30pilot

This is a great thread which I have read from start to finish, thanks to all who have contributed!

I have one question, it may have been answered already but I didn't spot it:-

On the logic board, which soldering points are closest to the dock pins, i.e. closest in terms of signal transfer?

I am trying to pick the ones that are closest to the dock connector to get the best possible signal without actually soldering to the pins directly. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks.


----------



## DMinor

e30pilot said:


> This is a great thread which I have read from start to finish, thanks to all who have contributed!
> 
> I have one question, it may have been answered already but I didn't spot it:-
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you want the cleanest sound then fly your wires from the dac directly to the pins (pins lifted off board), completely bypassing the board after the DAC. Don't be intimidated by working on the pins. Just get a dead board and practice, with help from those pics showing how to do it by the fellow head-fi'ers. I was also intimidated initially as I had no prior experience with soldering, and I even failed my first attempt killing the board. But that's part of the DIY, and killing a board is nothing compared to the eventual reward and satisfaction.
  
 Just make sure you get some decent tools, especially a decent solder iron station. You will need a very fine iron tip (I prefer 0.2mm) to work on the soldering.


----------



## e30pilot

Thanks I did actually try to go direct to pins but just couldnt do it! In the end I went for the 2 tiny pads nearest the dock.

It went well and sounds great!

I did initially install Nichicon ES caps but then removed them when I found out that my amp (fiio e12) already has caps in it to block any dc from source.

It sounds very resolving and a bit too bright on certain tracks (with Senn IE80). I have ordered Elna Silmic II caps to see if they smooth out the sound a little. I've got space to fit them inside as I am also using Tarkans iflash adaptor.

Ill report back on how it sounds with the silmics. 

Would love to hear from anyone else using diymod with Fiio E12 and IE80 and which caps you are using for best results?


----------



## DMinor

Well if it's bright with the IE80, then it must be bright badly.  I had IE80 and that iem's are pretty warm and laidback to my ears. The brightness may also have something to do with your amp. I like neutral amp and iem's, that way I know better the sound quality from the dap, which is considered by myself the most important piece of the puzzle. Of course, if the recording itself is bad there is nothing much you can do about it regardless of the gear. That's my opinion.


----------



## e30pilot

dminor said:


> Well if it's bright with the IE80, then it must be bright badly.  I had IE80 and that iem's are pretty warm and laidback to my ears. The brightness may also have something to do with your amp. I like neutral amp and iem's, that way I know better the sound quality from the dap, which is considered by myself the most important piece of the puzzle. Of course, if the recording itself is bad there is nothing much you can do about it regardless of the gear. That's my opinion.


 
  
 Hi
  
 I just opened it up and re-done the mod with a fresh set of wires (pure silver 30AWG), it sounds much better now.  There must have been some kind of short or bad connection before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I see that you highly recommend Kemet film caps, I may look into opening up the Fiio E12 at some point and replacing the WIMA ones that it comes with.
  
 Has anyone opened up an E12?


----------



## FARfromHOME

@DMinor

 Are you going to tell us about your latest find? These mystery green super/ultracaps?


----------



## DMinor

Normally using pure silver wire will even brighten it more.
  
 I really encourage you to mod one directly from the DAC to the lifted pins completely bypassing the board. Not saying it will make a huge difference as I have not done any comparisons, but it's safe to say the direct-out mod sounds theoretically better.
  
 To my ears the Kemet is superior to the Wima, and the Wima is superior to the Elna Silmic.
  
 Keep trying, and try those nobody has tried yet. You may get rewarded handsomely although there is no guarantee. There are lots of fun from DIY'ing and that's what this hobby is all about.


----------



## DMinor

farfromhome said:


> @DMinor
> 
> Are you going to tell us about your latest find? These mystery green super/ultracaps?


 
  
 Sorry to keep you disappointed my fellow head-fi'ers, but I am not ready to share at this point.
  
 I have shared with everyone on the Kemet film caps, which remain excellent caps IMO. I still have one diymod with those caps.


----------



## DR650SE

@DMinor, I love seeing your stack of diymods and seeing your test results. 

Makes me wish I had some skill and confidence. I'm going to have to learn. In the mean time, do you take bribes to do some work? Lol  j/k

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


----------



## DMinor

dr650se said:


> @DMinor, I love seeing your stack of diymods and seeing your test results.
> 
> Makes me wish I had some skill and confidence. I'm going to have to learn. In the mean time, do you take bribes to do some work? Lol
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 Remember good music always sounds good even on the stock ipod 5g, which is a damn good dap not just its sound but also its UI. That's why I love to collect these ipod 5g's as I am using them to back up my growing entire music library.
  
 Happy New Year to you and everyone!


----------



## DR650SE

e30pilot said:


> Thanks I did actually try to go direct to pins but just couldnt do it! In the end I went for the 2 tiny pads nearest the dock.
> 
> 
> I did initially install Nichicon ES caps but then removed them when I found out that my amp (fiio e12) already has caps in it to block any dc from source.





The Red Wine Audio Imod is done the same way. I also am using a Fiio amp. E17. I wonder if it to has caps. If so, would I be better off using the standard Fiio LOD rather than the ALO Copper 18 iMod LOD with caps? 


Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


----------



## e30pilot

dr650se said:


> The Red Wine Audio Imod is done the same way. I also am using a Fiio amp. E17. I wonder if it to has caps. If so, would I be better off using the standard Fiio LOD rather than the ALO Copper 18 iMod LOD with caps?
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


 
  
 I've heard that most Fiio amps have capacitors on the input section but not sure about the E17, it might be an idea to email Fiio?
  
 If the amp does have caps, the standard Fiio LOD would be a good place to start... I would recommend a pure silver LOD from eBay, or you could make one yourself using the guides in the DIY section.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## DR650SE

Thanks.  I definitely want to get a silver LOD.  Try that out. 
 So curiosity got the better of me and I opened the E17. Can anyone tell if it has input caps? The LOD input is at the bottom corner of the amp.  I believe thats also where the caps are, but if anyone could confirm that'd be great.  I know there is a cap in the center, which I believe would be for the docking into an E09 desktop amp.  If this does have caps, it'll be great to get a silver LOD without caps in it.  One less piece to the chain.


----------



## kuko61

e30pilot said:


> I've heard that most Fiio amps have capacitors on the input section but not sure about the E17, it might be an idea to email Fiio?
> 
> If the amp does have caps, the standard Fiio LOD would be a good place to start... I would recommend a pure silver LOD from eBay, or you could make one yourself using the guides in the DIY section.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 I wrote to support FiiO one year ago. 
  
 Q: _Hello,
 I made a dyimod on my iPod without coupling capacitors on output (my desktop headamp has coupling capacitors on input). I plan to buy one of your portable Amp or Dac/Amp (but I am not decided yet, which)
 I would like to know, whether E07K, E17, E11 and upcomming E12 uses coupling capacitors on input, or i need make a LOD cable with capacitors.
 Thank you for your answer_
  
 A: _Thank you for your mail and support to FiiO!__If you have any other question, please feel free to contact us!
 We would highly recommend you to buy  E07K or E17,  don't need capacitors.
 If you  buy E11 or E12, then  suggest  turnning to low gain,  and adjust to the maximum  of VOL, you can use  the LOD  cable without capacitors._
  
 I buy E17, but finally I placed WIMA capacitors inside iPod http://www.gme.sk/mks2-4m7-50v-p121-363
 I do not know, where else I will connect the iPod.


----------



## DMinor

kuko61 said:


> I wrote to support FiiO one year ago.
> 
> Q: _Hello,
> I made a dyimod on my iPod without coupling capacitors on output (my desktop headamp has coupling capacitors on input). I plan to buy one of your portable Amp or Dac/Amp (but I am not decided yet, which)
> ...


 
  
 So why did you decide to put in the Wima caps in ipod if you were told caps are not needed for your ampE17? What sound difference have you noticed between the ipod without caps and with the caps?


----------



## kuko61

Because I also plan attach my iPod to the AVR, car radio and other devices.
 Can not tell about the sound differences. Ipod without caps I had only a few days.


----------



## DR650SE

Hey guys, do you have any recommendations for a pure silver LOD?  I may be using my iMod in the car, so for that I'll stick to the iMod LOD.  But I also wanted to see if I could hear the differance between the silver and copper LODs.  I was thinking about getting the ALO iMod Silver 18 LOD, but it's crazy expensive and I already got a copper 18 one from them.  My Amp has internal caps so I could go with an LOD without caps, so long as I don't use it in the car.  Don't know if the car has internal caps.
  
  
 What is the real world possibility from the iMod damaging something without caps?
  
 Thanks guys!  I would try and make my own LOD if I was back home but that won't be for a while.


----------



## e30pilot

dr650se said:


> Hey guys, do you have any recommendations for a pure silver LOD?  I may be using my iMod in the car, so for that I'll stick to the iMod LOD.  But I also wanted to see if I could hear the differance between the silver and copper LODs.  I was thinking about getting the ALO iMod Silver 18 LOD, but it's crazy expensive and I already got a copper 18 one from them.  My Amp has internal caps so I could go with an LOD without caps, so long as I don't use it in the car.  Don't know if the car has internal caps.
> 
> 
> What is the real world possibility from the iMod damaging something without caps?
> ...




Its very subtle but there is a difference between copper and silver lod for me. The silver seems to open up the sound slightly more but you can only hear it in a quiet environment. 

I got mine off ebay, for around £36 and it seems well made, its also low profile so doesnt stick out too much from the ipod.


----------



## cogsand gears

dr650se said:


> Hey guys, do you have any recommendations for a pure silver LOD?  I may be using my iMod in the car, so for that I'll stick to the iMod LOD.  But I also wanted to see if I could hear the differance between the silver and copper LODs.  I was thinking about getting the ALO iMod Silver 18 LOD, but it's crazy expensive and I already got a copper 18 one from them.  My Amp has internal caps so I could go with an LOD without caps, so long as I don't use it in the car.  Don't know if the car has internal caps.


 
  
 I would contact Frank at Toxic Cables for a silver poison or silver widow ( both high purity silver + differing percentages of gold ) LOD. Not sure if he does them with caps or not, but there really good wires. I have used both with my DIYmod, and the difference between those wires, and copper wires is pretty impressive - for my gear and tastes. Probably work out a fair bit cheaper than ALO ones too.


----------



## DR650SE

Thanks man, I'll definitely shoot him an email.  I'd like to get a silver low profile one.  Plus since my E17 has caps, I wouldn't need any in the LOD.  And for using my iPod in the car, I figure the ALO Copper 18 LOD will work.
  
  
 Ok, so here is a question I have for everyone.  I think I am more of a treble head then I originally thought.  Does anyone use the equalizer on the iPod when you are using the line out?  To me a Flat equalizer sounds really veiled, or almost as if the music is covered with a layer of fog.  When I turn the treble up, it becomes clear.  Now this is one reason I went with the Fiio E17 amp.  It has a built in equalizer with bass and treble control.  Treble and Bass on the Fiio E17 go from -10 to +10.  I normally have the E17 set to 0 Bass, and +4 Treble.  But I also recently realized that the iPod built in equalizer works for the LOD connection.  So now I have been using the iPod equalizer set to Treble Booster, _*and *_ the E17 at +4 Treble.  To me this sounds very clear and as if the sound is unvield, or brought forward.  Which appeals to me.  I feel like maybe if someone else listened to my settings it would be far to sharp and bright.  Maybe its due to my hearing loss from my time on military deployments.
  
 Granted I'm using Bose IE2s as my portable IEMs and they may be a bit Bass Heavy.  With my Beyerdynamic DT880 cans, I will turn the Equalizer on the iPod off, but keep the +4 on the E17.
  
 So does any one else utilize the equalizer on the DiyMod?  Do I just need better IEMs?  Either way, it sounds good to me so I guess thats all that matters, but I was curious as to if anyonoe else utilized the iPod equalizer to adjust the sound from the DiyMod.


----------



## cogsand gears

dr650se said:


> Thanks man, I'll definitely shoot him an email.  I'd like to get a silver low profile one.  Plus since my E17 has caps, I wouldn't need any in the LOD.  And for using my iPod in the car, I figure the ALO Copper 18 LOD will work.
> 
> 
> Ok, so here is a question I have for everyone.  I think I am more of a treble head then I originally thought.  Does anyone use the equalizer on the iPod when you are using the line out?  To me a Flat equalizer sounds really veiled, or almost as if the music is covered with a layer of fog.  When I turn the treble up, it becomes clear.  Now this is one reason I went with the Fiio E17 amp.  It has a built in equalizer with bass and treble control.  Treble and Bass on the Fiio E17 go from -10 to +10.  I normally have the E17 set to 0 Bass, and +4 Treble.  But I also recently realized that the iPod built in equalizer works for the LOD connection.  So now I have been using the iPod equalizer set to Treble Booster, _*and *_ the E17 at +4 Treble.  To me this sounds very clear and as if the sound is unvield, or brought forward.  Which appeals to me.  I feel like maybe if someone else listened to my settings it would be far to sharp and bright.  Maybe its due to my hearing loss from my time on military deployments.
> ...


 
  
 I did for a time. I used to use the 'Piano' setting as it bought the mids forward a little. But, I changed IEM's and have had it set to off for some time now.
  
 If you appreciate the merits of EQ'ing, then its probably worth you installing Rockbox on your imod. I used to have it on mine, but found the difference in UI too much of a pain for me, especially when I gave up on EQ. 
  
 As you say, it sounds good to you, and that's what matters.


----------



## DR650SE

Awesome man, thanks for the helpful responses. 

One more question, when getting a silver LOD, does an LOD with 18 gauge silver wire add any benefit to an LOD with 22 gauge wire? 

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


----------



## DMinor

dr650se said:


> Awesome man, thanks for the helpful responses.
> 
> One more question, when getting a silver LOD, does an LOD with 18 gauge silver wire add any benefit to an LOD with 22 gauge wire?
> 
> Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


 
  
 For LOD, I recommend using solid core wires. The solid core is not as flexible as the stranded, but it should not matter for LOD as you don't bend it back and forth very often. More importantly, the solid core sounds better to my ears (more airy and tightened). I am not a fan of stranded wires.
  
 18 gauge may be a little too stiff to work with. I personally used gauges up to 22. It should not be smaller than 26 gauge for LOD's, IMO.
  
 As for the sonic benefit from using higher gauge wires, I have not done any comparisons in that regard. But if allowed, I will definitely go with the wires with higher gauge.


----------



## cogsand gears

dminor said:


> For LOD, I recommend using solid core wires. The solid core is not as flexible as the stranded, but it should not matter for LOD as you don't bend it back and forth very often. More importantly, the solid core sounds better to my ears (more airy and tightened). I am not a fan of stranded wires.
> 
> 18 gauge may be a little too stiff to work with. I personally used gauges up to 22. It should not be smaller than 26 gauge for LOD's, IMO.
> 
> As for the sonic benefit from using higher gauge wires, I have not done any comparisons in that regard. But if allowed, I will definitely go with the wires with higher gauge.



 


I also have not tested the sonic differences between different gauges of wire, however, I think the quality of the wire is most important. I used to really rate solid core Mundorf Silver / Gold, till I tried stranded Silver Poison from Toxic. The Toxic wire beats the pants off of Mundorf! 

Also, from DIYing a crystal Piccolino LOD, I would say you dont need a large gauge conductor to get great sound. The centre conductor of the above mentioned cable is very fine, but delivers bass and detail by the bucket full.


----------



## DMinor

cogsand gears said:


> dminor said:
> 
> 
> > For LOD, I recommend using solid core wires. The solid core is not as flexible as the stranded, but it should not matter for LOD as you don't bend it back and forth very often. More importantly, the solid core sounds better to my ears (more airy and tightened). I am not a fan of stranded wires.
> ...


 
  
 Does the Silver Poison from Toxic also contain some gold or just pure silver? What's your preferred 3.5mm plug in terms of performance?


----------



## e30pilot

cogsand gears said:


> dminor said:
> 
> 
> > For LOD, I recommend using solid core wires. The solid core is not as flexible as the stranded, but it should not matter for LOD as you don't bend it back and forth very often. More importantly, the solid core sounds better to my ears (more airy and tightened). I am not a fan of stranded wires.
> ...




Hi

I see your in the UK too, where do you buy the male dock connector from to make a doy lod?

Been trying ebay/amazon etc but no luck so far.

Thanks


----------



## Varoudis

e30pilot said:


> Hi
> 
> I see your in the UK too, where do you buy the male dock connector from to make a doy lod?
> 
> ...




I got ipod connectors from a store in Netherlands. Someone here might remember the name. If you can't find it pm me and ill check tomorrow


----------



## cogsand gears

dminor said:


> Does the Silver Poison from Toxic also contain some gold or just pure silver? What's your preferred 3.5mm plug in terms of performance?




Silver poison is silver gold alloy. I tend to use neutrik right angled ones as I only ever make low profile lod's

Most recent one.




e30pilot said:


> Hi
> 
> I see your in the UK too, where do you buy the male dock connector from to make a doy lod?
> 
> ...


----------



## Varoudis

cogsand gears said:


> Silver poison is silver gold alloy. I tend to use neutrik right angled ones as I only ever make low profile lod's
> 
> Most recent one.
> Probably from Qables.




Yes qables! ! Thanks


----------



## e30pilot

Thanks guys, i will check them out!


----------



## Varoudis

e30pilot said:


> Thanks guys, i will check them out!




Grub some nice mini jacks from there too!


----------



## mpawluk91

Ok so I have a question for all you modders and diyer's. Yesterday I bought a 30gb ipod 5.5 from GameStop and it worked really nice but it was UGLY. So naturally and as always I took it apart and replaced all the scratched stuff, hdd, screen, clickwheel, battery ect (I pretty much bought it for the logic board, 25 bucks is a good price) so after I was done I restored it in iTunes and then the center button stopped working ??? And no I don't mean stuck I mean like it would click but nothing would happen :'(

Then today I thought I'd be sheisty and return the ipod, I put back all the EXACT same parts it came with and didn't even restore it, out of curiosity I turned it back on and now THE CENTER BUTTON WORKS GREAT! ???

So I'm super confused about what is making the center button not work when I switch parts. It's like the button on the board itself not the plastic piece 

Any help would be greatly appreciated 

Thank you


----------



## Athur126

There's meant to be this rubber circle just underneath the centre button. You might have accidentally shifted it so the button doesn't work. Just shift it back to centre and the button should work.


----------



## DMinor

@Athur126, nice to see you back. Have you gotten your hands on any supercaps?


----------



## Athur126

Hmm nope. I switched in kermet caps and a new 64gb SD card then grew content. I'll wait on my customs before I do anymore changes haha


----------



## DMinor

Those Kemets are excellent caps, don't you agree? I was the first one who tried the Kemets, and they gave me a little surprise.


----------



## Athur126

Yes a step up from the Elnas I was using. Did u get your hands on the Supercaps?


----------



## mpawluk91

It was the clickwheel


----------



## DMinor

athur126 said:


> Yes a step up from the Elnas I was using. Did u get your hands on the Supercaps?


 
  
 Yes tried a few.
  
 Interestingly, today to have some fun I modded another one with NO caps. i.e. flying wires directly to the pins lifted off boards. Absolutely clean bypass. The measured dc offsets are 2 volts from both channels at LOD. I checked with my amp maker some time ago that the amp (UHA-6S.mk2) has no problem handling a few volts. So I had no fear plugging the ipod to the amp.
  
 I don't want to make any conclusion yet, but if your amp can deal with 2 volts I strongly suggest you should try one without caps, and let your ears to draw conclusions.


----------



## DMinor

With this no-cap mod, I heard hiss from some of the recordings which I had never heard before. The hiss is definitely not from the 2 volts of dc offsets as the background is dead quite with other tracks.
  
 Treble is more refined. More neutral and transparent than any other mods with caps.
  
 The mod with my favorite caps sounds more dynamic with more bass extension and sound stage, but less clarity (but still very detailed) in comparison to this mod without caps. That obviously has something to do with the caps. But I can't say which mod is superior to the other, as I really enjoy listening to both mods.
  
 I would say the mod without caps is as clean as you can get. That's expected as the audio signals are totally bypassing the board by flying from the dac to those two LOD pins lifted off board.


----------



## Varoudis

Hi,
  
 I have to questions:
  
 1) If you use a LOD with Caps with the normal iPod5g without mod will it degrade the sound or something else? or its like nothing as there is no DC offset to clean?
  
 2) Is for 5th gen essential to put the 68k resistor in the LOD?
  
 Thanks


----------



## DMinor

varoudis said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have to questions:
> 
> ...


 
 Theoretically I believe the less in the audio path the better. But caps can alter sound. Depending on the results and personal preference, this alteration could be positive or negative. The basic role of the caps is to block DC out from source to amp/iem. The dc offset could cause damage to amp/iem also noise from the dc current. But in the world of audio, theory does not always match results, IMO.
  
 For the 5g, no you don't need the resistor at all for the LOD.


----------



## mpawluk91

I would like to hear a diymod ipod photo and a diymod ipod mini 2nd gen

I have a theory that the ipod 5.5 doesn't have the best dac in the ipod lineup, I think the photo, video, and mini 2 all just sound different


----------



## DMinor

mpawluk91 said:


> I would like to hear a diymod ipod photo and a diymod ipod mini 2nd gen
> 
> I have a theory that the ipod 5.5 doesn't have the best dac in the ipod lineup, I think the photo, video, and mini 2 all just sound different


 
  
 Just do a clean bypass from the dac directly to those two pins lifted off board and put in a CF card instead of the SDXC. Don't let your bad experience with the ipod video cloud your judgement. 
  
 To those who know how to get the most out of these ipod videos, it's a blessing that we can achieve the SQ with a 256GB CF storage running the best UI (rockbox) at a fraction of the cost you would have to pay from buying those overpriced daps. Well not exactly, you can't even buy one hi-end dap with a 256GB CF, and they all use the lowly and inferior micro cards.


----------



## mpawluk91

I can't solder by myself because I have essential tremor (left hand shakes a little, and I'm a lefty) so I usually have my girlfriend do it but she's always scared of ruining boards. If she got really good at soldering she said she will mod anything I want


----------



## Varoudis

mpawluk91 said:


> I can't solder by myself because I have essential tremor (left hand shakes a little, and I'm a lefty) so I usually have my girlfriend do it but she's always scared of ruining boards. If she got really good at soldering she said she will mod anything I want


 
 hehhee epic! 
  
 I need one of these girlfriends too!  My hand is not super steady too, so Im afraid.


----------



## mpawluk91

varoudis said:


> hehhee epic!
> 
> I need one of these girlfriends too!  My hand is not super steady too, so Im afraid.


I used to be very good at drawing .... Now I have trouble with my signature


----------



## DMinor

If you are in the US, PM thegrobe, or PM no_eye_dear if you are in UK. Both of them may be able to offer service for this direct-out mod. Sorry I do not work on other's ipod.
  
 The downside of having someone mod for you is you can only hear the mod with that specific caps. Maybe you can have the ipod modded without caps and make two LOD's (one with caps one without). That way you can test the mod without caps (in ipod or LOD) if you amp can handle the dc offsets.


----------



## DMinor

mpawluk91 said:


> I used to be very good at drawing .... Now I have trouble with my signature


 
  
 Sorry man to hear about this but you are a lucky guy for having a girl friend like her.
  
 Maybe having more exercises or some therapy will help you?


----------



## DMinor

Guys if you want to test the mod completely free of caps, you need to make sure the following ....
  
 1. Your amp is able to handle the dc offset, regardless of how your amp is designed with or without dc blocking caps
 2. No dc offset from amp's output to iem's or headphones.
  
 By the way, I again measured the dc offsets from apple's lod and the numbers were like 1.5 volts. My measured dc offset from the amp to my iem's is zero.To produce the cleanest sound possible, I also disconnected the headphone jack from the board (wrap the cable end with some electrical tape). If connected,  the board would be still feeding the audio to the headphone jack and it would still draw power from the battery. As much as I want to remove more unnecessary components from the board, unfortunately I have no idea about what/how to remove.
  
 So this is the cleanest audio path we can get with this mod, also the most power efficient for the battery. Now I don't know if this is placebo or not, but I am now hearing the most neutral, transparent and cleanest sound ever, after I tested it with a few tracks (symphonies and orchestral work) which I consider the most muddy prone due to the nature of the music composed.


----------



## mpawluk91

dminor said:


> Sorry man to hear about this but you are a lucky guy for having a girl friend like her.
> 
> Maybe having more exercises or some therapy will help you?


It's not that bad it just shakes enough to where it's difficult to do pencil like activities 

Yeah I'm lucky for sure, and she's slowly developing audiophile tendencies lol


----------



## laughingbuddha

joneeboi said:


> Looking into the matter further, my suspicions were confirmed. It is well-documented that the iPod 4G, as well as the 5G and mini, uses the PortalPlayer System on Chip (SoC) PP5020. Thanks to Generations - wikiPodLinux , the PP5020's datasheet confirms that SPDIF/I2S is being employed in these iPods. Check CommsDesign - Find out what's really inside the iPod also for some good information. At any rate, this confirms that digital out is possible for the iPod, you just need to get creative in figuring out how to get it.


 
  
 Did anyone manage to impliment spdif in the end - sounds good solution to me ??


----------



## arrakian

laughingbuddha said:


> Did anyone manage to impliment spdif in the end



Why are we looking to get digital out? I thought the Wolfson was the superstar of the portable DAC world?


----------



## Varoudis

Ant ipod 5th user with sd card conversion?

I have a Kingston 128gb but the write is terrible! 1 to 2 mb/s

Any ideas??


----------



## DMinor

varoudis said:


> Ant ipod 5th user with sd card conversion?
> 
> I have a Kingston 128gb but the write is terrible! 1 to 2 mb/s
> 
> Any ideas??


 
  
 Try boot it to Apple's OF and write it from disk mode. That will help.


----------



## Varoudis

dminor said:


> Try boot it to Apple's OF and write it from disk mode. That will help.


 
 I didn't use the exclusive disk mode but the Apple OF. I got close to 1.8m but nothing better.
  
 Im not sure if its better to remove the SD and use it in the macbook for music transfer….


----------



## robump

Hi guys. 

Do you have a link to the 128gb sd cards you are using? 

Also can anyone recommend caps you can get in the UK? 

Thanks

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## DMinor

varoudis said:


> I didn't use the exclusive disk mode but the Apple OF. I got close to 1.8m but nothing better.
> 
> Im not sure if its better to remove the SD and use it in the macbook for music transfer….


 
  
 That's very slow. With my 256GB CF card, I get around 12MB/s in disk mode or 8MB/s from rockbox.


----------



## Varoudis

robump said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> Do you have a link to the 128gb sd cards you are using?
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-Technology-SDX10V-128GB-Extended/dp/B0090J5XLS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391799140&sr=8-1&keywords=128gb+sd
  
 https://www.hificollective.co.uk


----------



## Varoudis

I've got a bit of a problem with an iPod Im trying to repair!
  

  

  
 The plastic 'cap' (I have no idea how its called in english) that secures the LCD flex popped out. Both ends are fine but it seems so fragile that I don't know how to put it back... is there are know trick/way?


----------



## robump

varoudis said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-Technology-SDX10V-128GB-Extended/dp/B0090J5XLS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391799140&sr=8-1&keywords=128gb+sd
> 
> https://www.hificollective.co.uk


 
  
 Thanks for a link to the Caps.... which ones are you using from that website?
  
 Also does anyone see any reason why i cant fit a 60gb back to a 30gb ipod to accomodate the large caps?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Varoudis

robump said:


> Thanks for a link to the Caps.... which ones are you using from that website?
> 
> Also does anyone see any reason why i cant fit a 60gb back to a 30gb ipod to accomodate the large caps?
> 
> Thanks




Yes you can use the thicker one. (Free space depend on the cap. I also use the sd conversion)


----------



## robump

Thanks for your help.
  
 Just wondering what amps people recommend to go with this?
  
 LOD to Fiio E18?
  
 Would that be suitable?
  
 Thanks


----------



## DMinor

robump said:


> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Just wondering what amps people recommend to go with this?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I highly recommend the UHA-6S.MK2 which is very neutral and transparent. Also this amp can handle your diymod with or without caps even tho the amp has no dc coupling caps in the audio path.
  
 I only us the amp for iem's, no cans.


----------



## arrakian

dminor said:


> I highly recommend the UHA-6S.MK2 which is very neutral and transparent. Also this amp can handle your diymod with or without caps even tho the amp has no dc coupling caps in the audio path.
> 
> I only us the amp for iem's, no cans.



 


What amp would you recommend for cans (that can handle the output)?


----------



## arrakian

^


----------



## Varoudis

varoudis said:


> I've got a bit of a problem with an iPod Im trying to repair!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Im still looking to find what this PCB flex connector is property called?! 
 I couldn't find anything online with the search terms I used.


----------



## DMinor

arrakian said:


> dminor said:
> 
> 
> > I highly recommend the UHA-6S.MK2 which is very neutral and transparent. Also this amp can handle your diymod with or without caps even tho the amp has no dc coupling caps in the audio path.
> ...


 
  
 I am not saying that amp is no good for cans, just that I am an iem guy and not used to wearing cans due to comfy. I did try a couple of times paring my son's D2000 cans with the UHA amp and there didn't seem to be any difficulty to drive it.
  
 I am still looking for an alternative amp which is designed similarly (i.e. using NO dc blocking caps yet able to compensate 1.5 volts of dc offsets) just for comparison with the UHA. But so far I am not aware of any other amps capable of doing this as the UHA does.


----------



## DMinor

varoudis said:


> Im still looking to find what this PCB flex connector is property called?!
> I couldn't find anything online with the search terms I used.


 
  
 You may want to read this:
 http://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/70950/The+Brown+connector+broken.


----------



## Varoudis

dminor said:


> You may want to read this:
> http://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/70950/The+Brown+connector+broken.




Thanks I'll check it!


----------



## DR650SE

Quick question. I have an iMod 5.5G. I also have a Monochrome screen 4G iPod. Is there any way to die mod the 4G like the 5.5G? The 5.5G RWA iMod runs the sound single out of the Line Out port on the bottom of the iPod. But for the 4G they wire it directly to the headphone out. Can it not be sent directly to the line out just like the 5.5G? If so it will be a project of mine to do when I get home. Thanks for any info! 

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


----------



## calvinpn

I'm interested in performing the diyMod as kind of a pre-emptive for the future. I currently just have the cmoybb as an amp, but this doesn't mean I wouldn't have a different amp or amps in the future. What is this community's recommendation for a good well rounded capacitor to store inside the iPod (5G 30GB) that will allow the best compatibility for many amps? Is there one? Or do I have to pick and choose which road to take in terms of compatible amps by my cap selection now? I am planning to open up the iPod and upgrade it to Tarkan's iFlash + CF and I wanted to do the diyMod at the same time. I just didn't want to have to pop open the iPod again in the future (except to replace or change CF card). Of course, i would do each upgrade separately in case there are issues so I can isolate which of the mods is causing potential problems. Just wanted to do it all in one go in terms of opening it up.
  
 Short term plans (ideally): find out the community's recommendation for a good well rounded cap to keep internally with the stock 30GB back and perform the mod (I am comfortable with soldering); continue to use the iPod's standard headphone output (with working volume control via click wheel), be able to use docks such as Logitech mm50 or other, maintain transfer/charging capability through the dock with the OEM apple cable (both USB and AC).
  
 Long term plans: In addition to short term plans, to be able to pick and choose/swap in and out different amps (of course via LOD cable) without the need to change internally stored caps
  
 Is this wishful thinking?
  
 Thank you to all contributors of this thread  I've learned a fair bit!


----------



## thegrobe

calvinpn said:


> I'm interested in performing the diyMod as kind of a pre-emptive for the future. I currently just have the cmoybb as an amp, but this doesn't mean I wouldn't have a different amp or amps in the future. What is this community's recommendation for a good well rounded capacitor to store inside the iPod (5G 30GB) that will allow the best compatibility for many amps?


 
  Hi!
 An electrolytic capacitor such as Elna Silmic 2 would easily fit inside the 30 gig back. It will work.... however, for best SQ I very strongly recommend using a film cap. Personally, I don't think the electrolytics make enough improvement to bother. 
  
 A 4.7 uf film cap is a good, all-around all purpose value. It will fit in the thick 80 gig back only, it's a no-go in the 30 gig. So you would need to change the back . (bonus! bigger battery will fit!) Wima and Kemet are two brands of the film caps, I've really only used Wima though. Voltage on those are usually 50 or 63 V, doesn't matter which. But get one with the tightest tolerances if possible. (5%)
  
 Another option if you want to keep the thin 30 gig back is use a 2.2 uf Wima film cap. It will absolutely fit in the thin back (I've fit them in a LOD before - search my posts on this thread if you want a pic of the size). The only drawback is if you use a lower impedance amp or device downstream (10k) you will get just a little bass roll-off. Just a bit, and under 70Hz. Any other device with a higher input impedance (25k, 50k) and up, you are good. You may also want to check into the 3.3 uf films..they would be preferable to help that roll off with a 10k device downstream but I'm not sure the exact dimensions. Check the Wima site, or Kemet for exact specs. If they are at all smaller than the 4.7 Wima, they should fit in the thin back. Or just order them as well, they are cheap enough.
  
 Of course, any of these will require the CF swap, so do that at the same time. 
  
 Yet another option is to look at some of the new DAPs coming out. For the $ spent on the CF swap, plus an amp, plus LOD cable, and possibility of ruining or bricking your iPod, there are one-box options that do pretty good. Not discouraging modding, just weigh your options. 
  
 DR650- Sorry, I can't help with your 4G question. No experience with that.


----------



## max pro

Finally, I modded my iPod 5.5 and this is  what I did; I removed the caps near the DAC, removed inductors near the dock and routed the signal as directed in this thread, I could not find "black gate" caps so, I took caps I could find on the computer motherboard (47uf 6V) because of their size and I managed to fit them inside FiiO LOD cable. I'm actually using the iPod to FiiO E11. the sound is unbelievable! I'm so much surprised. Thank you all for sharing mod info.


----------



## anthony81212

max pro said:


> Finally, I modded my iPod 5.5 and this is  what I did; I removed the caps near the DAC, removed inductors near the dock and routed the signal as directed in this thread, I could not find "black gate" caps so, I took caps I could find on the computer motherboard (47uf 6V) because of their size and I managed to fit them inside FiiO LOD cable. I'm actually using the iPod to FiiO E11. the sound is unbelievable! I'm so much surprised. Thank you all for sharing mod info.


 
  
 Pictures!! We need to see!!


----------



## FallenAngel

Definitely try swapping out to film caps if you can.


----------



## max pro

That's what I did. I cannot open the LOD cable agai since I have glued it already but that's the cap I used inside it


----------



## FallenAngel

I meant to swap the electrolytics you used from the motherboard and use instead a pair of quality film caps. Even something as small as a Wima MKS02 1.0uF/50V (smallest I could find) would be great compared to an electrolytic.
  
 http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/WIMA/MKS0B041000F00KSSD/?qs=OiDNLlGUHG2%2fH%252b9e8cjxog%3d%3d


----------



## max pro

max pro said:


> That's what I did. I cannot open the LOD cable agai since I have glued it already but that's the cap I used inside it


 
 I terribly sorry! I tried to upload pictures but it failed, maybe later on.


----------



## Hi-EndLover

Hi everyone, iam doing my own IMOD for the 2nd ipod video 30GB. At begining, it work well. But after desoldering 2 Zcap near the DAC and turn on, it throw out this message:"www.apple.com/support/ipod". I continued to route wire to the pins dock then turn on again, the screen display same message.

Is my ipod broken? What can i do now?

Thank you


----------



## vantt1

hi-endlover said:


> Hi everyone, iam doing my own IMOD for the 2nd ipod video 30GB. At begining, it work well. But after desoldering 2 Zcap near the DAC and turn on, it throw out this message:"www.apple.com/support/ipod". I continued to route wire to the pins dock then turn on again, the screen display same message.
> 
> Is my ipod broken? What can i do now?
> 
> Thank you


 
 Sounds like your hard drive needs replacing.


----------



## DMinor

vantt1 said:


> hi-endlover said:
> 
> 
> > Hi everyone, iam doing my own IMOD for the 2nd ipod video 30GB. At begining, it work well. But after desoldering 2 Zcap near the DAC and turn on, it throw out this message:"www.apple.com/support/ipod". I continued to route wire to the pins dock then turn on again, the screen display same message.
> ...


 
  
 Either the drive or the ribbon cable, and my bet is on the ribbon cable. That ribbon cable can be fussy sometimes.


----------



## yaluen

Hey guys, I'm looking to replace the 30 pin connector on my imod LOD because one of the locking prongs isn't popping back into place anymore. Can't for the life of me find a place where I can buy just one or two online. Does anyone know a good cheap source that ships to Canada? Thanks!
  
 To be clear, the parts for this is what I'm looking for:

  
 So, not assembled and looking like this:


----------



## DMinor

yaluen said:


> Hey guys, I'm looking to replace the 30 pin connector on my imod LOD because one of the locking prongs isn't popping back into place anymore. Can't for the life of me find a place where I can buy just one or two online. Does anyone know a good cheap source that ships to Canada? Thanks!
> 
> To be clear, the parts for this is what I'm looking for:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Qables sell these.
  
 http://www.qables.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=484


----------



## yaluen

Looks good, thanks a lot!


----------



## Hi-EndLover

dminor said:


> Either the drive or the ribbon cable, and my bet is on the ribbon cable. That ribbon cable can be fussy sometimes.


 
  
 Thank you. I tried putting either to another original IPV and it still work well.
  
 Now i know that only after i assembling the front cover + main to *Back cover *completely *FIT*, it work again like there is a *switch* on this back case. Because when i take the back case off or soldered 2 nichicon caps then assemble all toghether with a narrow cleft between front cover and the back one, the message "Apple.com/support/ipod" appear again). i then soldered 2 nichicon caps and put them inside (where battery is place and put the battery out side). 
  
_The funny thing is when i replace the *thin *Back cover by the *thick one* (broken IPV 80GB) for fit this error come again _ 
  
 has Anyone dealed with this trouble? How can i change my IPV back cover to the thick one?


----------



## DMinor

I have changed quite a few IPV 30GB models with the thick back plates in order to fit the caps internally, and the thick plate of course shouldn't be the problem.
  
 I suspect when you closed the back plate something is forced/tightened resulting some shifting of either the ribbon cable or the connection between the ribbon cable and the ZIF adapter. BTW, what drive do you use for the mod? Do you use the Tarkan and a CF?
  
 With the Tarkan, I normally trim some along the edges of the adapter to avoid congestion with caps or unintended shifting once I close the back plate.
  
 I do know that ribbon cable could be fussy sometimes, giving me that same error message or restore message.


----------



## robump

Could anyone recommend any caps from the following website? http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/capacitors.html
  
 I hope to be able to put them in the back of a 60gb ipod with an SD card conversion
  
 Thanks


----------



## FallenAngel

robump said:


> Could anyone recommend any caps from the following website? http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/capacitors.html
> 
> I hope to be able to put them in the back of a 60gb ipod with an SD card conversion
> 
> Thanks


 
 http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/nes300-47uf-nichicon-type-ues1h4r7mem-p-5266.html


----------



## Hi-EndLover

dminor said:


> I have changed quite a few IPV 30GB models with the thick back plates in order to fit the caps internally, and the thick plate of course shouldn't be the problem.
> 
> I suspect when you closed the back plate something is forced/tightened resulting some shifting of either the ribbon cable or the connection between the ribbon cable and the ZIF adapter. BTW, what drive do you use for the mod? Do you use the Tarkan and a CF?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Could your IPV boot normally without the *back plate*?
  
 Iam still using it's original 30gb hdd and of course it work normaly at first. I planed to replace HDD by CF next week, but now it still display this message whether i assemble backplate or not.
 I turned on Diagnostic mode and test all (except hp test).  And it stucked at Hard DRIVE INFO (didn't show any info). So i think the problem is in storage module or HDD+/Ribbon cable.
  
 Also, the night before yesterday, i assemble all part and connect IPV to my amp, it play a song normaly but after surfing some other song, it didn't not play any of them (Just skipping from one to others continually). I thought it get error so i did reset ---> Error "www.apple.com/support/ipod" till now.


----------



## max pro

anthony81212 said:


> Pictures!! We need to see!!


----------



## DMinor

hi-endlover said:


> Could your IPV boot normally without the *back plate*?
> 
> Iam still using it's original 30gb hdd and of course it work normaly at first. I planed to replace HDD by CF next week, but now it still display this message whether i assemble backplate or not.
> I turned on Diagnostic mode and test all (except hp test).  And it stucked at Hard DRIVE INFO (didn't show any info). So i think the problem is in storage module or HDD+/Ribbon cable.
> ...


 
  
 It sounds like you have a bad HDD and/or ribbon cable connection.


----------



## mpawluk91

dminor said:


> It sounds like you have a bad HDD and/or ribbon cable connection.


Could be rockbox acting up if he has it installed


----------



## Hi-EndLover

Thank everyone! , I replaced a new ribbon cable and it's fixed. I ordered & iam waiting for Komputer bay SDXC 128GB card & Tarkan SDXC adapter layed in my IPV  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Guys! *Could your IPV boot normally without the **back cover*? My remaining problem now is just my IPV didn't not accept new thick back cover, even i tried changing the 2 thick ones. I Checked and nothing is shifted or pushed, moved. Its original thin back cover even push and make higher pressure on the board (plus the thickness of diy wires)


----------



## DMinor

That's really strange, and I have no idea what's happening there. But you may play around with the battery and/or headphone jack, and those are the only things which may but not supposed to cause the issue. I could be wrong.


----------



## Hi-EndLover

yub, so strangle because all cover i 've tried, i both put off the hp jack+hold button module and it still worked normal with the original one. So i think those are not the problem. 
  
 Every time i take off my IPV back cover and make reset MENU+SELECT, it do not work and throw out that error message. The same happen when replacing with thick cover.


----------



## DMinor

Maybe with the thick cover it's too loose inside? Try add some foams to keep the drive from moving around.


----------



## Varoudis

I th





hi-endlover said:


> yub, so strangle because all cover i 've tried, i both put off the hp jack+hold button module and it still worked normal with the original one. So i think those are not the problem.
> 
> Every time i take off my IPV back cover and make reset MENU+SELECT, it do not work and throw out that error message. The same happen when replacing with thick cover.




I think there are some 'safety' contacts from apple that flag a problem if they are missing.
Im not sure but you could google about it. (Apple firmware does some checks at boot)


----------



## FilipinoAko

Hello everyone. I have finished my diyMod. I removed the 2 Z caps near the DAC and soldered the wires there. I then soldered the other side of the wires on the 2 small circle pads below the 2 tiny capacitors. I didn't removed the 2 tiny capacitors. Is that OK? If I remove the 2 tiny capcitors near the dock is that going to make a difference with the sound?


----------



## realkandar

hi all.
 i'm sorry if i'm wrong room for my question. but please answer my question because i need some help.
  
 i'm still confused with DIY Lod with capacitor. in other room has people DIY Lod with resistor but still have an error.
 so my question is:
 - If i just DIY Lod with capacitor without resistor, configuration (lod to usb), can i use this for my iPod 4G, iPhone 4S, and iPod classis in my cars headunit or my dac without probelem?  or i must resistor. cause sometimes i will use the Lod with my iPhone 4s to in car.
 - How to mod Lod with capasitor but i still can use lod for my iPod 4G, my iPod classic and my iPhone 4s. i want diy 2 kind of Lod. 1. lod to 3,5 stereo and lod to usb male. can anyone give me explain how to modding the pin of lod with capasitor and resistor?
  
 thank you and forgive me if i have wrong written.


----------



## cmarti

realkandar said:


> hi all.
> i'm sorry if i'm wrong room for my question. but please answer my question because i need some help.
> 
> i'm still confused with DIY Lod with capacitor. in other room has people DIY Lod with resistor but still have an error.
> ...


 
 Why don't get a FiiO LOD if you need one that can be used with the iPhone 4s? I don't see the benefit of making one yourself for that application.


----------



## realkandar

cmarti said:


> Why don't get a FiiO LOD if you need one that can be used with the iPhone 4s? I don't see the benefit of making one yourself for that application.


 
 i think i can't enjoy the fiiO LOD cause is's factory made in. i need Lod modding for my gadget. when i was mobile i just need my iPhone 4s to enjoy the music with dac, it's make me simple stuff.
 but when i was home or in my apartment i'm using my iPod 4G and My Ipod classic. so that's why i need to DIY LOD. but i getting some confused about resistor and capacitor, i just one modding by my self.
 can someone explain me.
 thank you.


----------



## cmarti

realkandar said:


> i think i can't enjoy the fiiO LOD cause is's factory made in. i need LOD modding for my gadget. when i was mobile i just need my iPhone 4S to enjoy the music with dac, it's make me simple stuff.
> but when i was home or in my apartment i'm using my iPod 4G and My Ipod classic. so thats why i need to diy LOD. but i getting some confused abaout resistor and capasitor.
> can give me some explanation?
> thank you.


 
 I am not the best guy to help you with this topic, hopefully someone more knowledgeable can jump in and help you.


----------



## max pro

Hello! after doing some research, I found that FiiO E11 removes DC offset so, I made DC measurement on the FiiO E11 output after removing caps and I found: 0.00mV while the input had 1mV (left) 1.2mV(right).  I removed LOD caps completely and I'm enjoying full quality ( I can notice the difference).


----------



## cmarti

max pro said:


> Hello! after doing some research, I found that FiiO E11 removes DC offset so, I made DC measurement on the FiiO E11 output after removing caps and I found: 0.00mV while the input had 1mV (left) 1.2mV(right).  I removed LOD caps completely and I'm enjoying full quality ( I can notice the difference).


 
 Where did you find that information? I wonder of it would be the same for the E7 and E17.


----------



## max pro

I googled it and I found a review where they said it has circuit that removes DC offset. I then did measurement (using multi-meter) of DC on iPod output and compare it to amp output (which read 0 mV). I concluded it's safe to remove the caps
 for E7 and E17 you can try the same (I can't do that for you because I don't have them for measurement)


----------



## mpawluk91

max pro said:


> I googled it and I found a review where they said it has circuit that removes DC offset. I then did measurement (using multi-meter) of DC on iPod output and compare it to amp output (which read 0 mV). I concluded it's safe to remove the caps
> for E7 and E17 you can try the same (I can't do that for you because I don't have them for measurement)


If this thread had a list of amps that are known to do this I think it would be extremely helpful!

I'll have to let my girlfriend know that the e11 does this cause she has one and a ipod video


----------



## realkandar

cmarti said:


> I am not the best guy to help you with this topic, hopefully someone more knowledgeable can jump in and help you.


 
 thank you cmarti,  . hope someone can help me find the answer.
 can some one help me to take me thread about lod.?


----------



## DR650SE

I have an E17 and iMod, and I use a standard Fiio LOD, no caps and it works fine. 


On another note. With an iMod or DIYmod, can I charge it off a wall charger? Been charging it on my laptop but want to. I know if I can plug it straight into the wall. Anyone have an answer? My iMod doesn't have internal caps. 

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


----------



## Reima

dr650se said:


> On another note. With an iMod or DIYmod, can I charge it off a wall charger? Been charging it on my laptop but want to. I know if I can plug it straight into the wall. Anyone have an answer? My iMod doesn't have internal caps.


 
 Yes you can, I charge mine with an iPad wall charger.


----------



## DR650SE

Awesome, thanks! 

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


----------



## cmarti

dr650se said:


> I have an E17 and iMod, and I use a standard Fiio LOD, no caps and it works fine.


 Awesome, I will probably go that route too. Have you compared the sound difference between using no caps and iModed iPod with caps?


----------



## DR650SE

I haven't compared to much. I had a few drinks one night and compared a copper Alo iMod LOD with caps to a solid silver LOD without caps and it sounded better. No caps definitely sounded better. Clearer. But I believe the Fiio E17 has internal caps. Here is the view of an open E17. 







Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


----------



## cmarti

dr650se said:


> I haven't compared to much. I had a few drinks one night and compared a copper Alo iMod LOD with caps to a solid silver LOD without caps and it sounded better. No caps definitely sounded better. Clearer. But I believe the Fiio E17 has internal caps. Here is the view of an open E17.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you, then I will go this route. Because I own two 5.5th gen iPods, I will have one modded no caps and another with caps. That way I won't be wondering how different they sound.


----------



## DR650SE

Can't wait to hear your results! Truthfully, I can't tell much difference between my LOD and the headphone output on my iMod, and it may be due to my hearing loss. My iMod was done by Red Wine Audio. Though it does sound amazing with my DT880s 250ohm.  I love it. 






Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


----------



## DR650SE

Once I get home and have time, I'll pick p a few 5.5G iPods to mod and get into diying 

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


----------



## FilipinoAko

dr650se said:


> Can't wait to hear your results! Truthfully, I can't tell much difference between my LOD and the headphone output on my iMod, and it may be due to my hearing loss. My iMod was done by Red Wine Audio. Though it does sound amazing with my DT880s 250ohm.  I love it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No, your hearing is fine. The iMod or DIYMod really doesn't make any difference. From my experience, I think DIYMod or iMod are all just hype. In my opinion, most people think that they heard something different are just a result of placebo effect especially that they shelled out money and time on the mod. 

At first, I thought that I heard some difference with quality but I did not. No difference between an unmodded and modded.I have an unmodded iPod as a side by side comparison with my modded one.

It was fun to do the mod though.


----------



## mpawluk91

dr650se said:


> Can't wait to hear your results! Truthfully, I can't tell much difference between my LOD and the headphone output on my iMod, and it may be due to my hearing loss. My iMod was done by Red Wine Audio. Though it does sound amazing with my DT880s 250ohm.  I love it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You should most definetly hear a difference between even a non imod line out and the headphone out.
The imod procedure only affects the line out so if you can't hear the difference between the headphone jack and an imod line out maybe you're hearing is damaged?

The ipod 5.5 has a pretty terrible headphone jack that even a sansa clip can easily surpass


----------



## DMinor

filipinoako said:


> No, your hearing is fine. The iMod or DIYMod really doesn't make any difference. From my experience, I think DIYMod or iMod are all just hype. In my opinion, most people think that they heard something different are just a result of placebo effect especially that they shelled out money and time on the mod.
> 
> At first, I thought that I heard some difference with quality but I did not. No difference between an unmodded and modded.I have an unmodded iPod as a side by side comparison with my modded one.
> 
> It was fun to do the mod though.


 
  
 How did you diymod yours? Similar to the RWA iMod without lifting the lod pins off the board? What caps did you try? Did you try one without any caps for comparison? Also don't overlook the lod cable and amp. A transparent amp which does not color the sound will help to hear the difference more easily.
  
 Even the lod cables make quite difference. To satisfy my curiosity I have tried so many different wires frequently mentioned by head-fi'ers . To my ears, no wires can compete with the cotton-dielectric silver wires from Homegrown Audio for my taste.
  
 Or it could be that you may have hearing disability. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After going thru the diymod thing I came to understand how serious the bass rolloff is from ipod video's headphone out. I used to think the ipod video sounded pretty good from the HO.
  
 Honestly if I were you who came to the same conclusion, I would have sure jumped on the boutique dap bandwagon long ago.


----------



## duydangle

I feel so great that I found this thread. I am planning to diymod but I have something to ask:
 - I want to confirm which type of capacitors to use: polarized caps or non-polar/bipolar caps. I found that many people use Elna Silmic II caps while it is polarized. Beside Blackgate NX Hi-q are there any suitable non-polar/bipolar caps that you guys recommend? I am having Elna CE-BP and Nichicon Muse BP both 2.2uF 50V.
  
 Sorry for my English.


----------



## Analoog

What are the logic board elements on the back side and near dock connector (on both sides one)? One came off by accident, but iPod still works. Are these important parts?


----------



## Alterlvian

http://www.head-fi.org/products/sendstation-pdlo-miu5-pocketdock-line-out-mini-usb-adapter-for-iphone-ipod-and-ipad-black
  
 If I use a USB instead of a Mini to Mini, could I skip the Capacitors for the diyMod?
  
 I don't know anything about USB or DC Current.


----------



## FallenAngel

USB is digital and doesn't require anything except the usual iPod USB connector cable.


----------



## duydangle

After go through the beginning of the thread, I solved the problem with polarized caps.
  
 By the way I have one more question: I don't understand what amp's "input impedance" means? I read that "home use with 10k input impendance" works with 4.7uf caps. With higher input impendance 2 uf caps work fine.
  
 What's the disadvantage if I do not follow this? If I use 2uf caps with home amplifier with 10k input impendance?


----------



## duydangle

I get this from Fiio
  
  


> *Dear Duy Dang ,
> 
> Thanks for your mail and support to FiiO!
> 
> ...


----------



## DR650SE

Hmm, that's odd. Never had a problem with my iMod and E17 with no caps. 

On the other hand, here is my setup lately due to the long drives. 







Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk


----------



## duydangle

Actually I'm confused too. I think may be the DC offset is not existed the output but maybe the Fiio customer service does not recommend for some dc offset existed in the input. If the DC offset is too large, maybe the amp cannot block the DC offset and make harm on the amp or the headphone.
  
 Finally I will order Leckerton UHA-6S.MKII amp. It seems to be a great amp and it offers opamp rolling ability, which is very interesting.


----------



## DziwnyAdam

Hi all
 i have nawbie question 
 all is in that ilustration (this link)
 i know whats parts i must desolder from logic board, but i dont now one thing
 Caps is polar. have negative and positive side and where is + and - on the logic board of my ipod
 Thanks for all response and sory for my bad english xD


----------



## DziwnyAdam

what place of ipod is psoitive and what place is negative
 when i want solder the caps i need taht info xD
 thanks for all response


----------



## thegrobe

dziwnyadam said:


> Hi all
> i have nawbie question
> all is in that ilustration (this link)
> i know whats parts i must desolder from logic board, but i dont now one thing
> ...


 
  
  


dziwnyadam said:


> what place of ipod is psoitive and what place is negative
> when i want solder the caps i need taht info xD
> thanks for all response


 
  
 Hi There,
 Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The positive (longer) lead goes to the DAC, negative to the output.


----------



## Alterlvian

Working on the 5.5 G
 I lifted the caps on one of the Zcaps spot. I was wondering what Pin outs on the Wolfson Dac these two connect to.
 I have seen a sloppy picture of the dac with 2 wires connected, but I can't tell wich pins to connect to.


----------



## thegrobe

alterlvian said:


> Working on the 5.5 G
> I lifted the caps on one of the Zcaps spot. I was wondering what Pin outs on the Wolfson Dac these two connect to.
> I have seen a sloppy picture of the dac with 2 wires connected, but I can't tell wich pins to connect to.




Here's a download link to the WM8758 data sheet. See page 4 for a pin out. If I recall, it's LOUT2 and ROUT2. I don't have an iPod board in front of me, but I'm preeeeety sure that's correct. Verify with a multimeter though. I'll double check and update this post shortly

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM8758B_1.pdf


----------



## Alterlvian

Thanks for the Info. I find the right channel is Right Pad. That is the one I lifted.


----------



## thegrobe

alterlvian said:


> Thanks for the Info. I find the right channel is Right Pad. That is the one I lifted.




I just double checked this morning. Verified ROUT2 you need for the right pad. It's the second pin from left, on the side of the chip facing the "z" cap pads. Very small spot to solder but not impossible. Good luck!


----------



## Prometeia

Impressed with the sound of my Ipod video after this mod, I am currently using a Epiphany Acoustics EHP-O2 with it. No caps are needed with this great little amp.


----------



## Alterlvian

5.5g DiyMod.
 I might have made a mistake while soldering, and I also crossed the left and right channels.
 I was going to ask. There is sound in the Headphone out, but it seems the Line Out Drive is not producing any sound. Are these two connected to the mod as the same line? Do they differ after or before the modifications?


----------



## thegrobe

alterlvian said:


> 5.5g DiyMod.
> I might have made a mistake while soldering, and I also crossed the left and right channels.
> I was going to ask. There is sound in the Headphone out, but it seems the Line Out Drive is not producing any sound. Are these two connected to the mod as the same line? Do they differ after or before the modifications?




The mod should only affect the line out. So if you've got no sound from the line out, something related to the modification is messed up. The sound from the headphone jack is not changed.


----------



## robump

Can anyone recommend caps to fit within a 60gb case that are available in the UK.
  
 I got some WIMA 4.7uf 63v caps and i cant fit them within the case.
  
 Thanks for your help


----------



## robump

robump said:


> Can anyone recommend caps to fit within a 60gb case that are available in the UK.
> 
> I got some WIMA 4.7uf 63v caps and i cant fit them within the case.
> 
> Thanks for your help


 
 Anyone? I would love to get it finished!


----------



## duydangle

robump said:


> Anyone? I would love to get it finished!


 

 Try Wima/Kemet 2.2uf/4.7uf 50V


----------



## Phxtriode

This is my first post!
  
 I just started into the head-fi realm. I have been an audiophile for years and have to relinquish my listening room for an office so it was time to off load my collection of gear.
  
 I start my headphone journey with a pair of HD650's and a ALO PanAm. I was impressed, it sounded pretty good using my MacBook Pro > Audirvana. Then the bug hit... Time to tube roll, I bought some Siemens 6AK 5W's and the sound became more balanced and extended. Now running Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV's what a FANTASTIC tube highs a sweet, mids are like silk and the bass is deep resolved and extended.
  
 My family and I were planning a trip so now my focus went toward something portable, and searching this forum there were SO many options. Since I liked the way the ALO sounded I decided on the International. I wanted a DAC so I could use my iPhone 5s... disappointing to say the least.
  
 It was right around the same time I stumbled onto this thread and dug out my old 30gig iPod 5G popped it open to take a peak. Holly Cr&p those caps are small. So I eagerly bought a soldering station (never soldered much more than for adding some things to my car) some 26awg cotton jacket OCC Silver wire from VH Audio, Some cable from double helix for a new leash (litz wire) and a soldering pot. I also picked up some Wima 2.2uf 50v 5% film caps and a ( later to find ) garbage zif to CF adapter.
  
 Well I got started and pulled the "Z" caps out ( not too bad ) then it went bad really bad and I cooked a board, disappointed in my over eagerness I bought a replacement from RapidRepair along with new battery and face plate and click wheel. The second round of soldering was a success!!!
  
 The Wima's went through three different stages during break-in, first was the sound stage opened up but only in width. Next it opened in depth but also the lower mids/upper bass became a tad bloated... when they finally settled in they sounded really good. It reminded me of my old Jolida 202a but I wanted a little more resolution in the mid and upper frequencies. I also noticed the the click wheel that I bought was not allowing ffw/rwd buttons to work. 
  
 I searched ebay for a 5.5g found one a a fair price and bought a lighted magnifying glass setup. I also ordered a Tarkan ZIF to CF ( what a well thought out product ). While waiting for my new goodies I became impatient and bought some NOS ERO (Vishay) 2.2uf film caps from AliExpress.
  
 5.5g came I popped it open and went to work, this time everything went quick and surgical (magnifying light was the key). Again being impatient  waiting for the new caps (been two weeks now and still are not here) I ordered some Kemets. I put it all together last night and my first impression (with my DIY OCC Silver LOD) was the resolution I was looking for was there, the lower mid bloat was gone but so was the depth of the sound stage... I am hoping that with more break-in they will open up. ( I have about 12hrs and counting on them ).
  
 I just wanted to say thank you for all who have contributed to this thread and in doing so you have vicariously created a DIY Junkie now. Although I thank you my wife may not... Time to bride her with jewelry lol
  
 Thanks Again!


----------



## Phxtriode

Update
  
 The little green guys showed up (2.2uF/50V (225) ERO MKT1826 polyester film capacitors Green Elf P5) first impressions were a little forward and the soundstage a little 2D. After 10hrs on them I feel I hit the lottery, they opened way up kept the upper mid a little forward which IMO the 650's needed and the texture of strings is sublime.
  
 Who knew for a couple of bucks and a few minutes of work could yield such an engaging listening experience that you can taylor to your tastes.
  
 Now I want to see about a 3D printed 30pin case to try some other multiple cap options. As my headphone collect will surely grow.


----------



## DR650SE

Nice. I badly want to get into the DIYMOD thing, just no time at the moment . 

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


----------



## Phxtriode

dr650se said:


> Nice. I badly want to get into the DIYMOD thing, just no time at the moment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I actually use it as an escape from running a 24/7 business. It's been fulfilling.


----------



## robump

Hi everyone,
  
 Just wondering what you guys thought to these?
  
 http://uk.farnell.com/wima/mks2b042201f00kssd/cap-film-pet-2-2uf-50v-rad/dp/107422
  
 Do you think they will be appropriate?
  
 Thanks


----------



## DR650SE

phxtriode said:


> dr650se said:
> 
> 
> > Nice. I badly want to get into the DIYMOD thing, just no time at the moment
> ...




I bet. I wanna make custom LODs as well. 

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk


----------



## Alterlvian

How do I set up a Capacitor.
 If I solder to the (Z-Cap place), will I then solder the wire to the Capacitor at the + End?


----------



## duydangle

alterlvian said:


> How do I set up a Capacitor.
> If I solder to the (Z-Cap place), will I then solder the wire to the Capacitor at the + End?


 
 Yes, Z-cap position to the + side.


----------



## SilverEars

I heard electrolytics are not that great for signals, can cause phase distortion.  Are there another way to DC block and keep a clean signal?  Maybe other types of caps sends more cleaner signal, yet blocking DC?  Also, keeping the cap value minimum(smaller caps) would keep the signal cleaner?  What value would that be?


----------



## duydangle

silverears said:


> I heard electrolytics are not that great for signals, can cause phase distortion.  Are there another way to DC block and keep a clean signal?  Maybe other types of caps sends more cleaner signal, yet blocking DC?  Also, keeping the cap value minimum(smaller caps) would keep the signal cleaner?  What value would that be?


 

 You can try film caps like wima, kemet. Suitable value should be 2.2uf to 4.7uf, depending on the amp's input impedance.


----------



## robump

Should i go for 2.2uf or 3.3uf?
  
 http://uk.farnell.com/wima/mks2b042201f00kssd/cap-film-pet-2-2uf-50v-rad/dp/107422
  
 OR
  
 http://uk.farnell.com/wima/mks2b043301h00kssd/cap-film-pet-3-3uf-50v-rad/dp/107423
  
 Thanks for your help


----------



## duydangle

robump said:


> Should i go for 2.2uf or 3.3uf?
> 
> http://uk.farnell.com/wima/mks2b042201f00kssd/cap-film-pet-2-2uf-50v-rad/dp/107422
> 
> ...


 

 I think you should try 2.2uf first . I don't think there should be any difference in sound, 2.2uf with smaller size will help you set it up easier.


----------



## robump

Awesome! Thanks for your reply I will get some purchased and let you all know how I goes!


----------



## wgr73

Wow, 7 years later and our thread is still going strong!! Haha.  I remember when this thread was only 1 page...


----------



## alel

So can this work on a 6th generation iPod classic?


----------



## mpawluk91

OK guys now it's time for some brain storming... 

I have a ibasso dx90 and a headfier called lurker0 created a custom firmware that sets the cpu clock speed to maximum at all times, from my understanding I guess it prevents jitter and guarantees that the dac is bit perfect at all times

Once again from the dx90 thread I discovered that a battery with better quality cells also increases the sound quality (I bought the official Samsung Galaxy s3 battery for it) 

Both the modded firmware and the better battery showed a slight improvement in each they're own ways (I am not alone in that opinion) 

Couldn't those same ideas be applied to a diymod? I am confident that someone can do the same firmware mod with rockbox but I am not so sure where to buy an ipod 5.5 battery that is a vast improvement on the regular crap

I don't mean more miliwatt hours or more battery life I mean the cells of the battery are manufactured to a much higher quality control standard


I'm sure there's plenty of you rubbing your palms together right now lol

IPOD 5.5 ISN'T DEAD YET PEOPLE!!!


----------



## Stallion5188

About a year ago I attempted this mod and ruined my ipod since then a friend has done the mod for me and until reading this thread my "new" ipod has been my most prized possession. The problem is that I used 6.3v elna silimic 2s with a capitance of 47uf and it seems that everyone here now recommends 4.7uf. I mainly listen to my ipod through a vintage stereo receiver using an unmodded radio shack dock. Would there be a benefit to replaceing the caps with some 4.7uf of the same kind? I know most people here recommend film capacitors but I really want to keep the thin profile. Thanks!


----------



## skihji

dminor said:


> Guys if you want to test the mod completely free of caps, you need to make sure the following ....
> 
> 1. Your amp is able to handle the dc offset, regardless of how your amp is designed with or without dc blocking caps
> 2. No dc offset from amp's output to iem's or headphones.
> ...


 
  
  
 where can i get the silver cable required for this? and does anyone have a picture that shows where the wires need to go?
 EDIT: a lot of the older pictures in this thread have stopping being hosted and i cant really get a good idea about how to do this without reading all 200 pages.


----------



## FearDubh

no_eye_dear said:


> Hey mate, it's not that difficult really!
> Take the case off the FiiO and drill the side of the iPod back panel with the corresponding on/off & volume button holes from the casing.
> Bags of room in there if you have done the CF Mod but I also took off all the connectors (mini USB & phone jacks)... then it's really slim (about 3mm)
> Put the buttons in the holes, then put some hot glue (or double sided tape?) on the back pane and line the FiiO up... then stick the FiiO's battery onto the back panel as well.
> ...


 
 Hey I know you posted this reply 2 years ago but I'm just modding an ipod 5.5g I got for free. I was wondering if what you have done with the E5 might work with the E6? If anything the E6 looks as though it may be smaller, potentially being more forgiving in terms of space.

 Lastly, I know the Li-ion battery in the E6 is 3.7V however I am unsure of one thing; will the difference in mAh be a problem? The iPod will have an aftermarket battery from ifixit @ 580mAh and the E6 is shy a third of that at 160mAh.
  
 Cheers


----------



## yacobx

Will someone do the iMod for me? Please. I will pay of course.


----------



## cmarti

yacobx said:


> Will someone do the iMod for me? Please. I will pay of course.


 
 Contact thegrobe, he did two of my iPods and the job performed was top notch!


----------



## DR650SE

+1 for thegrobe I've bought a diy LOD from thegrobe, he's definitely a great guy and very knowledgeable.


----------



## cjhacker23

Is it just me, or have all the tutorials for this mod been deleted on the Internet? I'm trying to find a single "diy mod" for the iPod 4g and for the life of me can't find one. The link to the "collected diy mods" doesn't actually have a step by step guide, and this thread seems like it might have once had one but then since was deleted. Go to YouTube and... nothing. For what I've read is a fairly "famous" mod in head-fi circles, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of help for someone wanting to attempt the mod him/herself.

Is anyone else having this issue?


----------



## yacobx

he won't do it


----------



## DR650SE

cjhacker23 said:


> Is it just me, or have all the tutorials for this mod been deleted on the Internet? I'm trying to find a single "diy mod" for the iPod 4g and for the life of me can't find one. The link to the "collected diy mods" doesn't actually have a step by step guide, and this thread seems like it might have once had one but then since was deleted. Go to YouTube and... nothing. For what I've read is a fairly "famous" mod in head-fi circles, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of help for someone wanting to attempt the mod him/herself.
> 
> Is anyone else having this issue?




I would email Vinnie from Red Wine Audio. He does the mods for a fee, however, he may be able to instruct you on what needs to be done. I've ever done it myself. He did the iMod for the 4G and 5G



yacobx said:


> he won't do it


----------



## cjhacker23

Thanks for the reply, DR650SE. I'm aware of the Redwine iMod, but thought it might be fun to attempt it myself. I just replaced the battery in my "non-working" 4G and it's gotten me feeling a little bold. At the same time, though, I have very limited experience (none, really) soldering anything, let alone something so small, and before investing in the equipment, I wanted to make sure I could find a step by step guide somewhere with pictures. 

I was thinking I would start with the DIY CmoyBB amp that JDSlabs sells, just to get my feet wet. On the website it says that it makes a good first time soldering project. Then I thought I'd tackle the diymod. I'm working my way through Jonathan Le's collected general primers in preparation, but the thing I really need, that I can't seem to find anywhere, is a step-by-step guide for doing the 4g mod.

I'll contact Vinnie, though, and see what he says. Thanks for the help!


----------



## DR650SE

No problem. Also this may be of some help.

http://macintoshhowto.com/hardware/how-to-imod-a-4th-gen-ipod-photo.html


----------



## cjhacker23

I just combed through the first several dozen pages of this thread, and I've got to say it's kind of infuriating. Every useful pic has been removed! And then over at Jonathan Le's site, all of the useful step-by-step guides are dead links. 

What's the deal? 

Anybody out there attempted this mod themselves recently with a 4G and want to share their experience and/or pics? 

I would be so grateful!


----------



## cjhacker23

Ha--crossed posts there. Oh man, this is perfect. Thanks!!!


----------



## DR650SE

No problem. It would be helpful if someone was able to consolidate the information and update the original post. Especially with two separate entries, one for 4G, and one for 5G.


----------



## cjhacker23

I'm working through this thread and Jonathan Le's webpage and I keep getting stuck on this bit of advice:
  
 "When performing these mods, it is recommended to leave components on the PCB while shorting the circuit. That way you won't rip out the audio pads and possibly disable audio output for your entire logic board. It's not necessary to take this precaution, but it reduces your chances of catastrophe."
  
 Can anybody tell me what this means? How does one "short the circuit"? Am I NOT supposed to take out those tiny components that I'm soldering the wire ends to? So I just leave the component there and... what? Solder the wire over it? How? Just cover the tiny component with a blob of solder? If so, this seems to fly in the face of the pictures of people's mods, which looks like people have taken out those tiny caps and inductors before soldering the wire ends to the pads.
  
 Yikes, am I confused! If anybody could help clarify this for me, I'd greatly appreciate it!


----------



## Hellz

Greetings Modders,
 got my hands on 1 ipod nano 2nd gen, did the mod, and I'm happy with it. Afterwards got 2 Sad face iPod Videos - 1 for modding and the other for comparison (before/after or iMod/Stock if you prefer). Both iPods work with a spare HDD, but one of them has an issue. The buttons and clickwheel are not responding. The only thing that works is the Menu+Select combo to reboot the iPod, and nothing more. No Disk mode, no Diagnostic menu, no Backlight when pressing buttons. I found a missing component, but i can't make out what it is. I'd appreciate if someone can help mi with this.
  
 Here is a link with a picture.


----------



## junkers

Can anyone rate this modification to the stand alone intermediate DACs like the ODAC or Modi? Or any other well reviewed DAC? It would be nice to be able to use the iPod > Crack > HD650s to get the music away from a computer as long as the DAC is comparable.


----------



## DMinor

I have been modding and testing all kinds diymods for the last 18 months, using different wires, using different caps, using different mod methods (the imod way and the direct out way). I also tested all kinds of DIY LOD's using different wires. 
  
 The clear and undisputed winner to my ears is the following .....
  
 diymod using the direct out method
 30awg pure silver solid core for wiring inside the ipod
 Capless (NO caps in ipod or in LOD)
 22awg pure silver solid core with cotton jacketing for LOD cable
 Rip your albums in WAV's
  
 For all these tests, I paired the diymods with UHA6S-MK2 and EX1000. Note capless diymod sends out 2v DC to amp, so the amp shall be able to handle this much DC offsets. The UHA is designed to handle input with a few volts of DC bias. 
  
 My primary music interest is classical, which is considered the most demanding for sound quality due to full spectrum of frequency. I always use grand symphony music to do the critical testing, assuming the recording quality is good. 
  
 So, here is the SQ I hear about this winner:
  
 dynamic & airy (therefore excellent sound stage, 3D imaging)
 fluid, fast, transparent, effortless
 energetic and fresh
 smooth and sparkling treble extended on both ends
 bass with excellent weight and extended on both ends
 full frequency blasting (absolutely no roll offs)
 absolutely no muddy/hollow/boomy/dark sounding
  
 At this point, I have zero complaint or any further expectations for SQ. I am done. Really? 
  
 That said, I truly wish I will have an opportunity to compare my winner with the so called TOTL daps.


----------



## cjhacker23

@Dminor: Interesting. What are you using as an amp? I'm about to attempt a diyMod with an old 4g classic. Was considering using a pair of WIMA 50v 4.7uF film caps, then outputting to a cMoy (JDLabs). Have you tried this (or similar) type setup? Doing it capless, I think I'd be a little paranoid about pushing 2 volts of DC into the rest of my system--especially an expensive pair of multi-BA driver CIEMs!


----------



## DMinor

cjhacker23 said:


> @Dminor: Interesting. What are you using as an amp? I'm about to attempt a diyMod with an old 4g classic. Was considering using a pair of WIMA 50v 4.7uF film caps, then outputting to a cMoy (JDLabs). Have you tried this (or similar) type setup? Doing it capless, I think I'd be a little paranoid about pushing 2 volts of DC into the rest of my system--especially an expensive pair of multi-BA driver CIEMs!


 
  
 As mentioned in my post, the amp is UHA6S-mk2. The 2V dc bias from a capless diymod is not a problem as long as you know the amp can deal with it. Don't let that 2V scare you, and in fact that 2v may be just what is needed for something great. 
  
 IMO, any caps you put there will more or less do some damage to the low frequency. 
  
 Go capless and green. LOL.


----------



## FearDubh

> Originally Posted by *DMinor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The clear and undisputed winner to my ears is the following .....
> 
> ...


 
 Is that similar to iPHDmod? If you are unfmiliar with that mod it is here: http://beyondwind.duckdns.org/?page_id=95


----------



## DMinor

feardubh said:


> Is that similar to iPHDmod? If you are unfmiliar with that mod it is here: http://beyondwind.duckdns.org/?page_id=95


 
  
 I am aware of Beyondwind's mod. His mod to the LOD is similar to the imod, as he mentioned. I was interested in his mod to the headphone out, but the required soldering to the tiny tiny pads near the dac is just too too demanding. Even it can be done, IMO it could break easily (especially if the ipod needs to be reopened).The tiny pads are just not enough to hold the soldered joints firm. [size=12.7272720336914px] [/size][size=12.7272720336914px]I tried but gave up.[/size][size=12.7272720336914px] [/size]
  
 He has perhaps confirmed what I also believe with my ears, that is the capless sounds the cleanest.


----------



## FearDubh

dminor said:


> the required soldering to the tiny tiny pads near the dac is just too too demanding. Even it can be done, IMO it could break easily (especially if the ipod needs to be reopened).The tiny pads are just not enough to hold the soldered joints firm. [size=12.7272720336914px] [/size][size=12.7272720336914px]I tried but gave up.[/size][size=12.7272720336914px] [/size]


 
 Ya I had a spare iPod video 5.5g from my sister. I attempted his mod on it. What actually gave me the biggest problem was one of the pads where you uncover the copper I accidentally scraped the copper off shorting the connection... Luckily that logic board was a freebie! So when the next board arrives you would recommend avoiding the iPHDmod method then, if for no reason other then the sensitivity of the connections?


----------



## DMinor

feardubh said:


> Ya I had a spare iPod video 5.5g from my sister. I attempted his mod on it. What actually gave me the biggest problem was one of the pads where you uncover the copper I accidentally scraped the copper off shorting the connection... Luckily that logic board was a freebie! So when the next board arrives you would recommend avoiding the iPHDmod method then, if for no reason other then the sensitivity of the connections?


 
  
 If you intend to use external amp, then I recommend the capless direct-out mod to the lod pins. Of course, the amp must be able to eat the 2 volts of dc bias and cancel it at output to phones.


----------



## FearDubh

Alright thanks for the quick response. Asking questions on this topic is difficult since the thread is so old, I appreciate the help!


----------



## DMinor

feardubh said:


> Alright thanks for the quick response. Asking questions on this topic is difficult since the thread is so old, I appreciate the help!


 
  
 No problem. Indeed this is very old thread, and credits to those who tried the mod and provided the info. What I can tell you is, most of the diymods were done just like the imod. very few have done the direct-out mod to the lod pins, let alone capless to the amp. From my extensive testing, there are clear differences between the different mods, between the capped and capless, and also between the wires. Also having solid  soldered joints is also important.
  
 Good luck and more importantly have fun. I am off to shoot some hoops.


----------



## DingoSmuggler

dminor said:


> As mentioned in my post, the amp is UHA6S-mk2. The 2V dc bias from a capless diymod is not a problem as long as you know the amp can deal with it. Don't let that 2V scare you, and in fact that 2v may be just what is needed for something great.
> 
> IMO, any caps you put there will more or less do some damage to the low frequency.
> 
> Go capless and green. LOL.


 
 If you've DC-coupled your LOD, and your headphones haven't been cooked, then the amp itself is AC-coupled and rolling off your low frequency already.
 You're not really going capless at all.


----------



## DMinor

dingosmuggler said:


> If you've DC-coupled your LOD, and your headphones haven't been cooked, then the amp itself is AC-coupled and rolling off your low frequency already.
> You're not really going capless at all.


 
  
 Not sure you read my post entirely. By capless I mean NO caps in diymod, or LOD or external amp. The amp, such as the UHA6S, can be designed without using DC coupling caps but with a DC servo circuit that can compensate for that. The DC offset from the capless setup to the phones is zero.
  
According to Beyondwind, the ipod classic has also implemented a capless circuitry.


----------



## DMinor

OK guys, here is the comparison between the two types of capless diymods paired with the EX1000 (US version) + EX800 cable + capless LOD + capless UHA6S
   
 Both are transparent, dynamic, fast, energetic, absolutely hiss-free background.
  
 The cons: too cheap  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
  

 
  
 diy iMod, wired with pure silver solid core, CF card
 Best bass I have heard so far.
  
 Clean, crystal-clear and very tightened/extended bass
  
  
 Very good treble just not as good as the treble for the one below
  
 Best suitable for listening to pop music
 
  
 Direct-out diymod, wired with pure silver solid core, CF card
 Excellent sounding with airy, detailed and dynamic treble
  
  
 Still excellent bass but just not as excellent as the bass for the one above
  
 Best suitable for listening to classical music also for pop
  

 
  
 If I have to choose only one diymod, I would definitely choose the direct-out.


----------



## DMinor

I feel like my curiosity, diy efforts and willingness to try different things have really paid off. 
  
 Here is my ultimate setup for in-ear audio. It blows anything I heard before out of water. It may sound a little bit hype but I really mean it.
  
 Specs:
  
*capless* diymod (direct-out to lod pins)
 256GB CF card
 2000 mAh battery
*capless* LOD with 22 awg pure silver solid core and cotton jacketing
 EX1000 (burned-in for more than 4K hrs) with EX800 cable
*capless* UHA6S-MK2


----------



## yacobx

dminor said:


> I feel like my curiosity, diy efforts and willingness to try different things have really paid off.
> 
> Here is my ultimate setup for in-ear audio. It blows anything I heard before out of water. It may sound a little bit hype but I really mean it.
> 
> ...


 
 That is so pretty.


----------



## DMinor

yacobx said:


> That is so pretty.


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 These days when I switch from capless diymod to stock ipod video, the headphone out from the stock ipod video sounds like 2D only (no horizontal depth), lacking dynamics, muddy and laid back too. My ears are too picky now. 
  
 That said, the ipod video is still a good sounding dap for some music (e.g. pop) not as demanding as classical.


----------



## paulus germanus

My manual on moddin an iPod Video 5gen, in Polish:

https://plus.google.com/photos/108157956523702366038/albums/6089726151626979457

(detailed descripion of every step in comments under each photo)


----------



## DMinor

paulus germanus said:


> My manual on moddin an iPod Video 5gen, in Polish:
> 
> https://plus.google.com/photos/108157956523702366038/albums/6089726151626979457
> 
> (detailed descripion of every step in comments under each photo)


 
  
 Nice job. Now you should diymod another one directly to the lod pins from the dac for comparison. They don't sound the same.
  
 Also on the imod as you did, I normally run the wires like this with the metal frame filed some.


----------



## paulus germanus

dminor said:


> Now you should diymod another one directly to the lod pins from the dac for comparison.
> [/URL]




Did you mean this one? http://beyondwind.duckdns.org/?page_id=119


----------



## DMinor

paulus germanus said:


> Did you mean this one? http://beyondwind.duckdns.org/?page_id=119


 
  
 No, see the pic below (from a fellow head-fi'er). Those two wires are from the 2 pads where you remove the Z caps near the DAC. The two pins are lifted off board for a clean bypass. Those two Z caps are the only thing you need to remove from the board for wiring.


----------



## EH-Yeon

dminor said:


> OK guys, here is the comparison between the two types of capless diymods paired with the EX1000 (US version) + EX800 cable + capless LOD + capless UHA6S
> 
> Both are transparent, dynamic, fast, energetic, absolutely hiss-free background.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi, is that the beyondwind iphd mod the one with direct out mod? Cant really seem the pin are connected to a caps though. Or you just skipped that step?


----------



## wgr73

eh-yeon said:


> Hi, is that the beyondwind iphd mod the one with direct out mod? Cant really seem the pin are connected to a caps though. Or you just skipped that step?


 

 Direct out doesn't require going thru the LOD caps, so it's wired directly to headphone jack or line out pins


----------



## EH-Yeon

wgr73 said:


> Direct out doesn't require going thru the LOD caps, so it's wired directly to headphone jack or line out pins


 
  
 Hi, thanks for the reply. What i mean was the connection below. Where AVDD2 and AGND are soldered to.


----------



## wgr73

I have a spare 30gb 5g I think I may crack open and mod (CF card too) and go capless today   I have 3 actually lol.  May do both and put one up for sale!


----------



## EH-Yeon

wgr73 said:


> I have a spare 30gb 5g I think I may crack open and mod (CF card too) and go capless today   I have 3 actually lol.  May do both and put one up for sale!


 
 I am planning to do the CF mod too and have a tarkan adapter on the way here. Hope to get the mod done before the adapter arrive. Are you planning to do the caps at the image above? I am no EE / audio expert, so no technical knowledge behind this. 
  
 Never doen that before but i am trying to study the dac datasheet
  
 AVDD2         Supply              Analogue supply (supply for output amplifiers ROUT2/LOUT2) 
  
 AGND1         Supply             Analogue ground (return path for all input amplifiers, PLL, ADC and
                                              DAC, internal bias circuits, output amplifiers LOUT1, ROUT1 and
                                              OUT3/OUT4 on AVDD1 AGND1) 
  
 I think that's the grounding?


----------



## wgr73

eh-yeon said:


> I am planning to do the CF mod too and have a tarkan adapter on the way here. Hope to get the mod done before the adapter arrive. Are you planning to do the caps at the image above? I am no EE / audio expert, so no technical knowledge behind this.
> 
> Never doen that before but i am trying to study the dac datasheet
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm going to unsolder the LOD caps, then run wire from the Z caps to the LOD pads


----------



## DMinor

eh-yeon said:


> Hi, is that the beyondwind iphd mod the one with direct out mod? Cant really seem the pin are connected to a caps though. Or you just skipped that step?


 
  
 Not the beyondwind iphd mod. The direct out mod is for line out not for the headphone out. You fly wires from dac (where the Z caps are removed) directly to the LOD pins, with the pins lifted off the board for a clean bypass.


----------



## wgr73

Dang, just realized I didn't post back my new successful dimod   Capless, 8gb cf mod, new battery.  I have way too many of these ipods...I'll probably sell this one.  Don't need it, but it's still fun to mod


----------



## EH-Yeon

wgr73 said:


> Dang, just realized I didn't post back my new successful dimod   Capless, 8gb cf mod, new battery.  I have way too many of these ipods...I'll probably sell this one.  Don't need it, but it's still fun to mod


 
 No photos? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Still waiting for my balanced female connector, trying out for iphd mod.


----------



## wgr73

eh-yeon said:


> No photos?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hahaha, I need to take some lol.   will do soon!


----------



## DMinor

wgr73 said:


> Dang, just realized I didn't post back my new successful dimod   Capless, 8gb cf mod, new battery.  I have way too many of these ipods...I'll probably sell this one.  Don't need it, but it's still fun to mod


 
  
 did you do the direct out to the LOD pins?


----------



## wgr73

dminor said:


> did you do the direct out to the LOD pins?


 

 Nope.  Thought about doing that actually, just went to the top pads instead.


----------



## DMinor

wgr73 said:


> Nope.  Thought about doing that actually, just went to the top pads instead.


 
  
 if you have not done one, I recommend you do one for comparison. They don't sound the same. 
 Even you did the top pads, you can still convert it to the direct out mod to the lod pins.


----------



## wgr73

I may just do that!


----------



## DMinor

BTW, this little tool is great for working on those tiny pins.
  
 What amp do you use for your diymod?


----------



## wgr73

dminor said:


> BTW, this little tool is great for working on those tiny pins.
> 
> What amp do you use for your diymod?




Cool! I have a mini3 for portable. But I also have the schiit stack so I'll give that a shot too


----------



## DMinor

wgr73 said:


> Cool! I have a mini3 for portable. But I also have the schiit stack so I'll give that a shot too


 
  
 Did some google and it seems the mini3 is a DIY assembled amp. I am interested in building one for some fun.
 Is the amp able to receive 2V DC offset from capless diymod? Does it sound transparent? What's the rough cost for building a mini3?


----------



## wgr73

dminor said:


> Did some google and it seems the mini3 is a DIY assembled amp. I am interested in building one for some fun.
> Is the amp able to receive 2V DC offset from capless diymod? Does it sound transparent? What's the rough cost for building a mini3?


I love the amp. It does received 2V Dc. It's transparent for sure! To build its about $80-90


----------



## Dreamer2go

Hello
 I'm new to this iMod area-of-interest as I just recently found an old usable iPod 5.5.... never would have imagined how much I missed.
 There's a DIY modding service in Hong Kong that uses the following:
  
Elna SILMIC II 47uf
Nichicon MUSE ES 47uf
Nichicon MUSE Fine Gold 47uf

 As I didn't research on the capacitors much, are these brands okay?

 Also, are there significant difference between RWA iMod vs DIY iMods?
 Thanks!


----------



## paulus germanus

I've been using Elna's Silmic II 47uf and they've worked wonders for me 

I've never heard RWAMod but I believe it's just another iMod. If you make your diyMod with exactly the same wire RWA do theirs it's gonna sound the same. I've done mine with pure copper silver coated wire and solder with silver, and love the sound.

Have fun modding Dreamer2go  Take your time, don't rush and think-over every single step 10 times before execution.


----------



## Dreamer2go

paulus germanus said:


> I've never heard RWAMod but I believe it's just another iMod.


 
 Oh that's the Red Wine Audio's iMod
 Thanks for your reply though! I'll do a little bit more research before doing anything!


----------



## paulus germanus

dreamer2go said:


> Oh that's the Red Wine Audio's iMod




What I actually meant was that I've never heard the RWAMod's sound, not that I've never heard about it  So I'll say it with more confidence this time: RWAMod is just an iMod like any other. If you manage to get the same solder and wire as RWA does you'll get exactly the same sound with your diyMod.


----------



## Dreamer2go

paulus germanus said:


> What I actually meant was that I've never heard the RWAMod's sound, not that I've never heard about it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Gotcha... it was like 4am to me and I must have interpreted it wrong 
 Thanks for your reply!


----------



## EH-Yeon

dreamer2go said:


> Oh that's the Red Wine Audio's iMod
> Thanks for your reply though! I'll do a little bit more research before doing anything!


 
 Methodology are the same. I believe rwa imod uses cardas made wire.


----------



## DMinor

paulus germanus said:


> What I actually meant was that I've never heard the RWAMod's sound, not that I've never heard about it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 RWA iMod does not work on the LOD pins tho. To my ears, the ones modded just like the RWA iMod and the ones modded to the LOD pins don't sound the same.


----------



## EH-Yeon

Just completed this. Slight modification to iphd mod. thick back cover, cf/ssd and 2000 mah battery next. Compared to my other imod with BG similar setup, better soundstage, less warm, less bass however still punchy. More neutral i would say. Looking forward to it after break in.


----------



## paulus germanus

eh-yeon said:


> Just completed this. Slight modification to iphd mod. thick back cover, cf/ssd and 2000 mah battery next. Compared to my other imod with BG similar setup, better soundstage, less warm, less bass however still punchy. More neutral i would say. Looking forward to it after break in.




Is that a fully balanced mod?! If so: THIS IS AMAZING! Could we get a more detailed description of hwat you've done here? And more, detailed pics plz!


----------



## EH-Yeon

paulus germanus said:


> Is that
> Is that a fully balanced mod?! If so: THIS IS AMAZING! Could we get a more detailed description of hwat you've done here? And more, detailed pics plz!


 
 Yes, Similar to what beyondwind proposed, just separate HP_com formed by bridging L and R channels and solder them to the connector pins respectively. Including the connection at AVDD2 and AGND, it will have 3 channels grounding. I will try to take photos after done modding but the connections are hot-glued though.


----------



## EH-Yeon

Finally done. Modded with silver and copper braided hybrid cable, 2000mah battery, 128gb cf, kemet and v caps.


----------



## cmarti

eh-yeon said:


> Finally done. Modded with silver and copper braided hybrid cable, 2000mah battery, 128gb cf, kemet and v caps.


 
 Did you wire the headphone jack as the line out?


----------



## EH-Yeon

Yes, the line out dock is disabled and just serve as charging and data transfer purpose. Good that I still can listen to music when it is still charging


----------



## EH-Yeon

After 2 days of break in, I would say I prefer the sound of capless mod over diymod with BG. To make it fair, I have made several comparison with 3 setups with similar amp and IEM, assuming the difference in interconnect cables would be minor and negligible. 
  
 diymod with BG to SE
 iphd capless mod to SE
 Iphd capless mod balanced
  
 SE iphd mod is clearly more details, brighter, and airy and refined compared to diymod with BG, it is clearly a winner in detailed presentation. However for diymod with BG, it sounded laid back and warm. Would be good for relaxing and resting. One downside for diymod with BG is the sound is more blended. Imagine walking on the beach, the 'rocks' represent the music instrument placement are blended with sound and vocal as 'fine sand'. It is not as bad, but would be muddy.
  
 With SE iphd mod, it is more like a rocky beach without sand. Every single notes are solid and clearly detailed. I would recommend to go for capless/ iphd capless mod and get rid of the capacitor. 
  
 iphd balanced sound however, with much more air and sound staging. Much upgrade from SE setup. It is a fun setup like sitting in a concert. For all, I would go straight to balanced setup if I have a balanced amp. Otherwise, SE capless is sufficient. 
  
  
 P/s: For iphd mod, using line out pads as hot pin and headphone pads as cold/ground sounded better compared to the opposite setup.


----------



## DMinor

Great job.
  
 Can you describe and do you have a pic showing how you achieved a solid and reliable soldered joints near the DAC for AGND & AVDD2? What cap did you use to connect the two wires?
  
 Also when you just listen from the HP out without using amp, is the volume high enough? My understanding you will lose a few db with the mod, correct?
  
 It would be interesting if you include a direct-out mod to the lod dock pins for comparisons.


----------



## EH-Yeon

dminor said:


> Great job.
> 
> Can you describe and do you have a pic showing how you achieved a solid and reliable soldered joints near the DAC for AGND & AVDD2? What cap did you use to connect the two wires?
> 
> ...


 
 It is hot glued on the connection, so i cant show you the photo anymore. I go with brute force method as my solder iron is not thin enough. I scraped the solder mask near the pin and caps using tiny screw driver and knife to expose the copper along the dotted pink and green lines rather than on the pins/solder (see pic). Turn out is is much easier this method. I used 3 old caps from my old LOD running parallel. I cant identify which caps it is using but it is not in audio path, so I don't really care that much yet.
  

  
 For direct hp out, it is more than sufficient to drive my IEM with 28 and 32 ohm. So i don't think it is an issue here, it worth a try if you have extra ipod around.


----------



## DMinor

Can you elaborate on "brute force method"? I tried soldering there before on a practice board, it seems achieving solid and reliable joints is difficult. Also the solder doesn't seem grab the exposed copper. maybe I need special solder.
  
 BTW, can you eliminate the cap for this mod?


----------



## EH-Yeon

dminor said:


> Can you elaborate on "brute force method"? I tried soldering there before on a practice board, it seems achieving solid and reliable joints is difficult. Also the solder doesn't seem grab the exposed copper. maybe I need special solder.
> 
> BTW, can you eliminate the cap for this mod?


 
 From my understanding, yes you can eliminate the cap for the mod since there is common rejection from the + and -. If the solder doesn't stick, means the mask is not fully come off. Scrape the copper gently until it is really 'shinny'. Use flux, it helps. Good luck.


----------



## DMinor

eh-yeon said:


> From my understanding, yes you can eliminate the cap for the mod since there is common rejection from the + and -. If the solder doesn't stick, means the mask is not fully come off. Scrape the copper gently until it is really 'shinny'. Use flux, it helps. Good luck.


 
  
 Thanks. I may give it another try for this hobby and fun. I think one must use hot glues to secure the joints after soldering. For other mods, I only used hot glues for the lod pins.


----------



## Omegart

Can I do the capless mod directly to the lod of an ipod 5.5 with a fiio l9 lod, a topping nx1 amp and a pair of shure se215? (I know that it's better if I upgrade my setup, but right now I don't have a job and to be honest I neither have any kind of soldering experience).


----------



## EH-Yeon

omegart said:


> Can I do the capless mod directly to the lod of an ipod 5.5 with a fiio l9 lod, a topping nx1 amp and a pair of shure se215? (I know that it's better if I upgrade my setup, but right now I don't have a job and to be honest I neither have any kind of soldering experience).



If your amp has a capacitor to block DC, then go for it, else the amplified DC will do some damage to your earphone.


----------



## Omegart

Don't know. I just asked in the amp thread... however, what's the difference in your mod between the se and the balanced one?


----------



## EH-Yeon

omegart said:


> Don't know. I just asked in the amp thread... however, what's the difference in your mod between the se and the balanced one?


 
 No difference. Differences are balanced or single ended termination.
  
 If you mean the differences between iphd mod and diymod, it would be the cabling for grounding/-ve path. For diymod, the bypass and cabling are done on the signal path only while iphd mod is for both +ve and -ve path. However for iphd mod, the player will not be able to play on stock or original rockbox firmware and require custom rockbox firmware.


----------



## Omegart

I asked in the topping thread and they told me this:
"They're 1uF polypropylene with 0.1uF PP bypass caps that will block DC but, because the input impedance is high, they won't cause too much low-frequency roll-off."
"The NX1 is is 0.5dB down at 20Hz, which will be inaudible. Yes, you could remove the output caps on the iPod since the NX1's input caps perform the same function. But it looks very fiddly."

I think I'll go for a direct-out diymod capless. Anyway, if the music volume is too low can I add the cap in the lod right? Any raccomandation for the wire or other thing?


----------



## modic

I got a NOS iPod.

Do you think I should MOD it?
Or should I buy other new version player instead?

I don't know DIYmod.
If you think I should MOD it, what is the best option I could have now?

Thanks so much


----------



## mixtzin

> Hi,
> 
> here [http://redwineaudio.com/mods/imod] they offer an Ipod mod. Since they mod it via a “custom dock connector”, I assume they are offering the classic diyMod (with external caps).
> 
> ...


----------



## chinkscantrade

Hey all,
  
 First post here after reading headfi for almost 4 years!
  
 Thing is I found an almost 10-year old IPod 5G and decided to mod it.
  
 I have some questions, please bear with me as I have ZERO experience in electrical engineering (I took really long to read the entire thread, oh well but some of the jargon is too difficult for me to understand)
  
 What is the size of the capacitor that I should look for if I am using an IPod 5G 30GB
  
 Does the voltage of the capacitor matter? (I've seen people use 6.7V for the BG caps)
  
 What is general consensus on the type of capacitor, there are people using 4.7uf, 47uf, 22uf, is there a recommended one that I should use?
  
 I am leaning towards a more bassy signature, does different caps affect the SQ?
  
  
 Also, anyone with experience about the direct method without caps that Dminor posted?
  
 Does it mean I just have to connect from the DAC left/right to the LOD pins without going to the onboard dock connectors?
  
 Do I have to "desolder the coupling  capacitors near the DAC, the inductors near the dock, and the capacitors that comes right after the dock inductor." as mentioned in the website in order to reroute?
  
 http://www.tarkan.info/20090113/tutorials/modding-audiophile-meets-ipod-diymod/2
  
 Sorry for the long list of questions, lots of the guides on the web have been removed and leaving some with expired photos  I really hope some1 would make a new guide soon!
  
 Thank you all for the valuable 200+ pages thread!


----------



## FARfromHOME

Direct out is cleanest (I did it before dminor).
 You do not need to unsolder anything with direct out, only cut the out pins connection to board.
 Adding caps will change sound slightly.
 Though you will need amp with caps on input.


----------



## chinkscantrade

Thank you for the kind reply!
 Does that mean if I added caps within in the ipod, its okay if i do not have any input caps on my amp? (im looking at diy partially for fun and also costs reasons, not really motivated to get a new amp :/ )


----------



## Huberer

Hello,
  
 I'm also interested into mod my two iPod's (5.5 with 80GB and 5th Video with 30 GB). The last one will get a 64GB-SDXC-card mod with stuff from Tarkan. Also on his side there is a description of a *diyMOD* of an iPod (5.5 gen.) with internal caps. I understood that this is not a direct out mod. With this description you don't need a special custom dock connector. Am I right?
 Unfortunatelly most of the links here in this thread are deat or the images posted are gone.
  
 The user "paulus germanus" posted a link with images. Is this a direct-out mod? I just want to be clear.
 For a direct-out mod I need a custom dock connector. Where can I find one or a how-do to make one?
  
 Thanks in advance
 Huberer


----------



## Sleinzel

I want to do a capless mod to the default Line out (Which would be L2 and L2 if I'm not mistaken). Then use a Fiio Line out to the UHA-6S MK2. 
 Am I correct in assuming that I only need to remove the caps next to the DAC (As seen here: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/jERiCOh/IMG_5689.jpg) and for the 2 line out pins (As seen here: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/jERiCOh/IMG_5683.jpg) and then solder the wires from the DAC outputs to L2 and L3?
  
  
  On top of that I want to install an mSata SSD using Tarkan's adapter. The ipod should run rockbox. I've read a few things and it seems that I need to use beyondwind's patched rockbox version to get mSata SSD support in rockbox. Has anyone got a decent explanation of how to do a 1TB SSD Rockbox Ipod?


----------



## Sleinzel

huberer said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm also interested into mod my two iPod's (5.5 with 80GB and 5th Video with 30 GB). The last one will get a 64GB-SDXC-card mod with stuff from Tarkan. Also on his side there is a description of a *diyMOD* of an iPod (5.5 gen.) with internal caps. I understood that this is not a direct out mod. With this description you don't need a special custom dock connector. Am I right?
> Unfortunatelly most of the links here in this thread are deat or the images posted are gone.
> ...


 
  
 I'm not an expert, but the L2 and L3 are the default audio line outs, so a normal Fiio L9 should theoretically work. I'm looking into doing the exact same thing but capless.


----------



## Gorquin

Hello All! New to the forum so a brief introduction.
  
 I'm a former electronic tech and business owner. I've built guitar tube amps from scratch and worked with SM components when they were first employed in Car Audio and when desoldering stations were few and very expensive. We used to replace micros (96 pins or more if memory serves me) with just a 40W soldering iron and a dental pick. And yes they worked! LOL We did 100% QC on our work.
  
 OK so I really like the thread and all of the info provided. 
  
 Some observations and questions:
  
 I have a 4G iPod A1367 EMC2407 supposedly with the Wolfson WM8975 chip. Glass top, Silver Back and VERY THIN.
  
 I use my 4G in a number of ways: Mowing the lawn (earbuds with Ear Protection over them), in the car, background music when my band is on a break and of course for my listening pleasure when I can appreciate some quiet time.
  
 I've read through probably 125+ pages some in detail, some skimming - early, middle, and later posts.
  
 I like idea of using a Direct Out method but have an observation and a question for the engineers or those who have done multiple different mods.
  
 I could have missed this so please accept my apologies if I did.
  
 Can't one just run 2 wires from the DAC out to 2 unused pins on the 30 pin connector, wire an external connector for L,R, and ground and leave the rest of the wiring "As Is" without removing any components OR lifting any pin leads??  A new LOD could be used for an iPod headphone amp, buffer caps if needed for the 2V offset to home audio setup etc. while leaving the original Headphone Jack intact for listening while mowing the lawn and the 30 Pin jack intact for charging and/or visiting a friend who has a standard iPod docking station.. When in a DOC or using the headphone jack the two "unused" Dircect Out pins are "floating" and shouldn't have any effect on the other "out" methods, correct?
  
 My audio theory could be wrong but if there is NO LOAD on the Headphone jack OR the 30 pin connector where the pins normally connect to a doc how could it effect the sound of a Direct Out Line when those components are basically not really in the circuit, unless they're going to ground from the DAC output,  they're floating, there's no load terminating those points? No load, no current draw, no electrons flowing as we need to complete the circle for that to happen in those circuits.
  
 Does this sound plausible or am I missing something? I haven't looked at a schematic if there is one available.
  
 Thanks……..


----------



## hitman1

HELLO:
  
          I have been reading about this whole IMOD with the classic IPOD. I am just wondering by time you spend the money for the RED WINE conversion and their cable plus amplifier. Why not get the SONY PHA-1A ( http://www.sony-asia.com/product/pha-1a) , which has a amp and a great DAC, and call it a day? Is the IMOD better than that? With the SOny your bypassing the old APPLE set up and your gaining a amp. I am just wondering.


----------



## hitman1

Hello; 
  
        I have read the post and looked at DIYMODS on EBAY. I looked at the RED WINE IMOD. What makes this better than just getting the SONY PHA 1A, which is a amplifier and DAC portable. This will bypass the whole APPLE set up. I was wondering am I missing something. I was thinking about getting a IPOD CLASSIC and just adding the Sony PHA 1A.


----------



## Gorquin

Hitman1
  
 I'm looking into this as well and I could be wrong but going from an iPod to a Sony PHA-1A isn't going to change much because you'd still be going through the, so called, less desirable iPod output circuits(caps/coils) into the Sony and not straight from the iPod DAC.


----------



## hitman1

Hmmmm...wo so what is the point of using the SONY PHA 1A IF IT ISN'T BYPASSING THE IPOD DAC? I need to do more research on that thanks...If someone has a answer please give it. Thanks for your responce.


----------



## Gorquin

Like I said, I could be wrong, but from what I've read it's not the iPod DAC that's the limiting feature but the Output circuit. People are bypassing that in order to get better sound directly from the iPod DAC.


----------



## hitman1

Ok I understand what your saying but i thought this bypass all of these problems. Here is another thread i found: http://www.head-fi.org/t/678765/ipods-and-external-dacs/30


----------



## EH-Yeon

gorquin said:


> Hello All! New to the forum so a brief introduction.
> 
> I'm a former electronic tech and business owner. I've built guitar tube amps from scratch and worked with SM components when they were first employed in Car Audio and when desoldering stations were few and very expensive. We used to replace micros (96 pins or more if memory serves me) with just a 40W soldering iron and a dental pick. And yes they worked! LOL We did 100% QC on our work.
> 
> ...


 
 Your method could work, providing there is custom wiring for your LOD. I have never try it so I am not sure whether the method will affect the audio quality as we tend to keep thing simple.


----------



## EH-Yeon

hitman1 said:


> HELLO:
> 
> I have been reading about this whole IMOD with the classic IPOD. I am just wondering by time you spend the money for the RED WINE conversion and their cable plus amplifier. Why not get the SONY PHA-1A ( http://www.sony-asia.com/product/pha-1a) , which has a amp and a great DAC, and call it a day? Is the IMOD better than that? With the SOny your bypassing the old APPLE set up and your gaining a amp. I am just wondering.


 
 Back in the day, we have no product that able to bypass or taking the digital signal out from ipod (with great storage of course). Hence, ipod video or several generation before that has wolfson DAC is considered the king of portable player for audiophiles until cyber labs introduce their algorithmn solo. If I am not wrong, they are the first to introduce stack that take digital out from ipods but they are only work for ipod classic 6th gen and above. Most of the DAC now are better than IMOD or diymod, you got to try to hear for yourself. For the Sony you mentioned, I believe they are only working for classic 6g and above too.
  
 Still, ipod classic still stand a very good place in portable player with their modding capability and the amazing clickwheel UI. Where else can you find ipod classic that run on 1TB SSD with 50 hours battery life?


----------



## hitman1

WOW...CYBER LABS WHAT? Never heard of this algorithm stuff Apple IPOD 6th and 7th Generation? Now I have to look this up. Was wondering all night with the MOFI BLUE Headphone that already has amplification wondering is there away to get the signal from the headphone piece. Now I have to go do more reading thanks. Getting prices from everyone it seems the IPOD CLASSIC MOD plus the amplifier and cable your looking at close to $1000 dollars. The Ipod Classic and just the SONY PHA 1A will at least keep you around 500 to 600. Thanks for all the replies thus far.


----------



## hitman1

Ok..did my reading oops...talking about the logic that s used by the new DAC/Amps. Yes while reading still seems like the best deal and I read the SONY is using a WOLFSON. SO what is the point of doing a IMOD? Can get the Sony PHA 1A for 260.


----------



## EH-Yeon

hitman1 said:


> WOW...CYBER LABS WHAT? Never heard of this algorithm stuff Apple IPOD 6th and 7th Generation? Now I have to look this up. Was wondering all night with the MOFI BLUE Headphone that already has amplification wondering is there away to get the signal from the headphone piece. Now I have to go do more reading thanks. Getting prices from everyone it seems the IPOD CLASSIC MOD plus the amplifier and cable your looking at close to $1000 dollars. The Ipod Classic and just the SONY PHA 1A will at least keep you around 500 to 600. Thanks for all the replies thus far.


 
 Most of us here do diy. So, the cost might not as high as the premium cable makers. imod/diymod mainly for ipod video 5.5 gen and below, mainly due to the dac used. Also there is no way to get digital out from them, unless you use wadia for them. In other word, it is not worth it.
  
 Changes in ipod classic 6th gen allow the digital out from the dock. Saying that including ipod touch, iphone etc., you will be able to use external DAC. There are a lot of them you will be able to find in portable source section if you are going this way. 


hitman1 said:


> Ok..did my reading oops...talking about the logic that s used by the new DAC/Amps. Yes while reading still seems like the best deal and I read the SONY is using a WOLFSON. SO what is the point of doing a IMOD? Can get the Sony PHA 1A for 260.


 
 You are right, in a way. If i have old ipod laying around somewhere I will opted to mod them. Mainly you can match making the amp by separating the dac and amp. Partly, the mod process is fun.


----------



## JamesBr

hitman1 said:


> Ok..did my reading oops...talking about the logic that s used by the new DAC/Amps. Yes while reading still seems like the best deal and I read the SONY is using a WOLFSON. SO what is the point of doing a IMOD? Can get the Sony PHA 1A for 260.


 
 Ya.. not to bad !


----------



## hitman1

Question from the group. i have been reading about the SONY PHA-1A, OPPO HA-2 and the IFI NANO IDSD DAC. Which one is the better deal? I assume the IFI plays WAV and FLAC.


----------



## ningen13

My ipod mini 2nd Gen mod,
-Lod caps muse 0.1uf pararel with stock ipod smd caps
-H/P out caps elna cerafine 220uf,stock ipod 100uf smd removed.
-Battery 1600mah
-Extra charger module for fast charging (internal battery charger will take looooong time for fully charged 1600mah battery)
-Memory upgrade to cf 8gb


----------



## DMinor

ningen13 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome mod.
  
 Can you elaborate how exactly you put in a 1600 mAh battery? Also please let us know where you bought the battery (I don't need the extra charger module). Thanks
  
 P.S. How many hours of battery you are getting for playing with a full charge?


----------



## ningen13

i put 1600mah battery external (outside on it's alumunium shell), just put some hole (large enough for battery socket for go trough it) and take original battery cable and socket, and solder it to new battery...
 and i got 1600mah battery from local sparepart phone store...


----------



## ningen13

dminor said:


> Awesome mod.
> 
> Can you elaborate how exactly you put in a 1600 mAh battery? Also please let us know where you bought the battery (I don't need the extra charger module). Thanks
> 
> P.S. How many hours of battery you are getting for playing with a full charge?




i put 1600mah battery external (outside on it's alumunium shell), just put some hole (large enough for battery socket for go trough it) and take original battery cable and socket, and solder it to new battery...
and i got 1600mah battery from local sparepart phone store...
At 24hour play still play with battery indicator "empty"


----------



## DMinor

ningen13 said:


> i put 1600mah battery external (outside on it's alumunium shell), just put some hole (large enough for battery socket for go trough it) and take original battery cable and socket, and solder it to new battery...
> and i got 1600mah battery from local sparepart phone store...
> At 24hour play still play with battery indicator "empty"


 
  
 Awesome battery hrs for playing time. yeah the battery is too much for the indicator to handle. LOL.
  
 I forgot the mini does not have the space for such a big battery. Nevertheless, brilliant mod.
  
 I love the mini form factor, and it feels really good in my palm. I wish we could put a powerful battery inside.


----------



## ningen13

dminor said:


> Awesome battery hrs for playing time. yeah the battery is too much for the indicator to handle. LOL.
> 
> I forgot the mini does not have the space for such a big battery. Nevertheless, brilliant mod.
> 
> I love the mini form factor, and it feels really good in my palm. I wish we could put a powerful battery inside.



 


yeah ipod mini have a "mini" space for battery. before i modded ipod. i got my ipod from friend... the original battery almost dead.. i only have 1hour(less) playing time... after that i search battery for ipod mini on my local phone sparepart mart, and i come empty hand, but i find some battery that can fit inside ipod mini... but its only have 200mah... and i only have 4(less)hour, so i give courage too give big battery on ipod.. and put battery externaly, realize inside have plenty room for modification.. so i also change the HDD to CF, coupling caps on LOD and coupling caps on headphone out.. and extra charger module due to slow charging time from internal charging system...

yeah if you want original body but large battery, just open the cf card case... it will give some room for another extra battery, and give a extra 200 mah battery, it will improve your playback time.. don't worry about explosion due to unbalaced charging (200mah bat and original 400mah bat) because battery on pararel position.


----------



## DR650SE

How do you guys get the iPod mini open?  I recently purchased a mini, in good shape.  It seems like the top and bottom are on pretty tight and I don't want to break anything prying them up.  Any tips?


----------



## DMinor

dr650se said:


> How do you guys get the iPod mini open?  I recently purchased a mini, in good shape.  It seems like the top and bottom are on pretty tight and I don't want to break anything prying them up.  Any tips?


 
  
 There should be some video tutorials available online.


----------



## choczy

First time post here, looking for a guide for the 5 and 5.5 gen ipod videos/classic for the imod.
 Can I do it so it goes through the headphone socket?


----------



## EH-Yeon

choczy said:


> First time post here, looking for a guide for the 5 and 5.5 gen ipod videos/classic for the imod.
> Can I do it so it goes through the headphone socket?


 
 Yes, but you got to use custom rockbox firmware.


----------



## alanchanxd

Ok i just did the iMod for the iPod video and I changed the existing hard drive to a Tarkan's iFlash-DUAL SDXC Adapter. I also bought a 2000mah battery but it hasn't arrived by post yet.

 Here are some tips from my experience for people who are worried about doing it for the first time. If what I wrote below is too long (tl;dr), then just remember the common adage: measure twice and cut once and have patience.

 1. Patience... seriously take your time doing the iMod (whether that is removing the caps with a soldering iron, pulling the ribbon cable tabs upward, or flicking the battery catch upwards... these parts are all very delicate and hard to replace if broken). I took my time doing the whole iMod process because I didn't want to screw up anything.
 2. Use a soldering iron with a fine tip... unless your soldering iron is the specialised and expensive type with an existing fine soldering tip. Most soldering irons have interchangeable tips anyway so you could just buy some interchangeable fine tips.
 3. Have steady hands... try not to have caffeine 12 hours before you start and most certainly don't have alcohol before you start. When soldering the PCB, a sudden accidental jerk of hand movement could melt something and screw up your circuit (yes... the PCB and its components are a lot smaller than they seem in picture).
 4. Be alert... the PCB circuit solder in the iPod is very quick to melt when removing the components and you wouldn't want to accidentally burn your other components either.
 5. When removing components from the PCB, don't use force to yank it out... you risk pulling the solder feet off, just yank the components off the PCB gently. Or even better, use a small forcep to pick the components out.
 6. Use a hookup wire that is smaller than 30AWG... if not you may not be able to fit the cable inside the iPod Video's front cover.
  
 ----- The sound-quality difference -----
 Although some claim that there is no sound-quality difference after doing the iMod whereas some people revel the iMod process, I have noticed 2 differences after doing the iMod:
 1. The soundstage has increased, 3D-imaging has vastly improved... I mainly use etymotic ER4s and iMod has benefited these earphones a lot.
 2. The level of detail has improved... e.g. I can hear finer detail now like the high-hat (drum) closing with better bass detail.
 However... my music memory is not the best (I am a noob myself) so please take my opinion with a pinch of salt.

 ----- The iMod process -----

 Components used for iMod:
 - Cardas Quad Eutectic Solder
 - Neotech SOST solid core silver wires 30AWG
 - Elna Silmic II 47uf 6.3v cap (will be used later to make a LOD)

 Take the iPod apart and get ready to solder. No caffeine or alcohol before doing it remember.

 See how small the caps and inductors are. This is why you need a soldering iron with a fine tip and a lot of patience, care, and awareness.

 Voila.

 Hooked it up to my Fiio E7 + Etymotic ER4s with a Generic LOD cable (the LOD cable itself doesn't have any capacitors inside but, I was desperate to check out the audio quality while making sure that the audio channels were correct). I will make a LOD later on using those Elna Silmic II 47uf 6.3v capacitors. Apparently you are not supposed to use a LOD adapter that doesn't have internal caps (like the one pictured) as it may damage the iPod or amp.


----------



## DMinor

Congrats!
  
 DIY modding these old ipods has been the most fun for me from this hobby, not mentioning eventually I found the capless combo to be the killer.
  
 capless diymod (direct out mod not imod)
 capless LOD cable (with pure silver wires jacketed with cotton)
 capless amp
 nothing but capless
  
 The end result: organic,super clean, uncolored, transparent sounding.  
 The caps will color the sound in the low frequencies, no matter how good they are. No caps are the best caps, and I am 100% convinced. I have experimented tons of caps for curiosities.
  
  
 Here is my well cased capless combo.


----------



## alanchanxd

dminor said:


> Congrats!
> 
> DIY modding these old ipods has been the most fun for me from this hobby, not mentioning eventually I found the capless combo to be the killer.
> 
> ...


 
 Theoretically, I agree that a capless LOD should benefit the sound but I am worried that a capless LOD may potentially harm my amplifier and device (because of the DC current offsets?), however some users have reported that this was not an issue. I guess I will build 2 LODs (one with caps and another without caps) for comparison.

 But on a separate note... I am more interested with your case!!! Did you sew that together?!?! It has that classy and conservative styling, especially the dual-tone contrasting colour of the cream-coloured stitching and the brown leather.


----------



## DMinor

alanchanxd said:


> Theoretically, I agree that a capless LOD should benefit the sound but I am worried that a capless LOD may potentially harm my amplifier and device (because of the DC current offsets?), however some users have reported that this was not an issue. I guess I will build 2 LODs (one with caps and another without caps) for comparison.
> 
> But on a separate note... I am more interested with your case!!! Did you sew that together?!?! It has that classy and conservative styling, especially the dual-tone contrasting colour of the cream-coloured stitching and the brown leather.


 
  
 True you can't just pair the capless diymod with any amp, the only one I know is the UHA6S.MK2 which is not only capless but also capable of compensating 2 volts of DC at output to phones. The other possible candidate is the Shadow as claimed to be capless by its maker, which I have not tried.
  
 The case was hand made by my girl. I love it more than the music!


----------



## mikehjy

Hey guys, I've recently taken interest to making a diymod as sort of a weekend project past time. 

Got an old 30gb iPod off the net and ordered the iFlash so I could stuff the caps in the unit itself. But does anyone have an updated guide to doing the mod with internal caps? The links on the first page don't seem to be working for me. alanchanxd's post above is a very detailed guide on how to get the mod part done, but the internal caps part is still a challenge. Also a parts list would be great!

Thanks!


----------



## mikele

Hi guys, can you tell me if somebody in Europe (I'm from Italy) can do the diyMod? I can not do it, so I'm searching for a technician to send my ipod to.
  
 Thank you,
 Mikele


----------



## yacobx

dminor said:


> True you can't just pair the capless diymod with any amp, the only one I know is the UHA6S.MK2 which is not only capless but also capable of compensating 2 volts of DC at output to phones. The other possible candidate is the Shadow as claimed to be capless by its maker, which I have not tried.
> 
> The case was hand made by my girl. I love it more than the music!


 
 could the capless mod be done with the c&c bh2 amp? edit nvm lol


----------



## yacobx

alanchanxd said:


> Ok i just did the iMod for the iPod video and I changed the existing hard drive to a Tarkan's iFlash-DUAL SDXC Adapter. I also bought a 2000mah battery but it hasn't arrived by post yet.
> 
> Here are some tips from my experience for people who are worried about doing it for the first time. If what I wrote below is too long (tl;dr), then just remember the common adage: measure twice and cut once and have patience.
> 
> ...


 
 can you link how to make a LOD with a cap?


----------



## alanchanxd

yacobx said:


> can you link how to make a LOD with a cap?


 
 I haven't got time to do it yet but here are good tutorials:

 https://web.archive.org/web/20120502144546/http://pinouts.ru/PortableDevices/ipod.shtml

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/460010/diymod-lod-caps <- polarity of the caps

 http://www.head-fi.org/a/diy-lod-full-step-by-step-do-it-yourself-guide-with-pictures <- full tutorial


----------



## RavenII

Hello all,
  
 I had a few questions regarding the 5.5 Video...this thread is SO huge that it's difficult to find the answers, and most of the pictures are gone....

 1. Is the 5.5 still worth getting and modding at the ~$30-$50 that they're now going for? I was planning on Rockboxing, dropping a CF to SD card in it, and doing the diyMod to it...or should is there a better option now (I mean, clearly there's better options, but in terms of price and mod-ability)?
  
 2. Is the diyMod worth doing (these days)?
  
 3. If the mod is done, can you still use the iPod with regular docks/cables (for line out)?
      A. If the caps are installed in the iPod....there's no need for caps in a Line out dock adapter....is there? (sorry for the newbie question)
  
 4. Are you basically just bypassing the SMD caps in the iPod for the Black something or another caps that everyone rants and raves about?
  
 5. Can you use the diyMod to improve the headphone out, and if no...is there a different way?
  
 6. Anything else that should be known about the 5.5/diyMod? opinions?
  
 Thanks in advance!
  
 I hope others can benefit from the answers as well...take care everyone.


----------



## yacobx

ravenii said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I had a few questions regarding the 5.5 Video...this thread is SO huge that it's difficult to find the answers, and most of the pictures are gone....
> 
> ...


 
 Have the fun is researching this stuff. Its absolutely worth doing the mod. you will have alot of fun. But if you want the easy road there are alot of other dacs that are cheap and good. the point of this thread is people like modding and making is special to them. the sky is the limit on what you want to do. I really enjoyed building my 5.5g and now im building a ipod mini 2g for the fun of it.


----------



## RavenII

yacobx said:


> Have the fun is researching this stuff. Its absolutely worth doing the mod. you will have alot of fun. But if you want the easy road there are alot of other dacs that are cheap and good. the point of this thread is people like modding and making is special to them. the sky is the limit on what you want to do. I really enjoyed building my 5.5g and now im building a ipod mini 2g for the fun of it.


 
  
 Thanks for the response!

 I agree, it is half the fun, but it's also difficult when a lot of the ground work in the beginning is not accessible due to time. I never liked taking the easy road to be honest, I just like hacking things... 

 I'm heavily into high end mobile audio...I have an E39 BMW with a pretty high end audio system in it, a friend of mine knows that I'm into music/audio and hacking and told me about this whole iPod thing (modding/etc.) and now I'm hooked! haha. This seems to be a nice community with a TON of information...which is good...(or bad if your wallet isn't that fat).
  
 But as far as question 3. goes...
  


> 3. If the mod is done, can you still use the iPod with regular docks/cables (for line out)?      A. If the caps are installed in the iPod....there's no need for caps in a Line out dock adapter....is there? (sorry for the newbie question)


 

 I'm assuming that as long as the caps are installed IN the iPod...you should still be able to use it with any dock? and question 5.
  


> 5. Can you use the diyMod to improve the headphone out, and if no...is there a different way?


 
  
 Is no?
  
 Thanks again for your reply. Take care.


----------



## DMinor

Working on these diymods has been the most rewarding experience for me in terms of the amount of fun and gain in audio quality. Just keep in mind the audio results are the synergies from trial and error, depending on the following parameters ......
  
 1. Type of diymods (the traditional method, aka imod vs. direct out mod)
 2. Quality of the soldered joints and type of wires used for diymod
 3. Type of caps or totally free of caps
 4. LOD cable 
 5. External amp design (capped or capless)
 6. Phones
  
 There is a whole pipeline which will determine the end results. When you try enough and hit the jackpot, the results can be massive improvements from any stock ipods .


----------



## rrg123

I'm also interested in the LOD with caps.
 Any details on it yet.
  
 I've done monster caps for fun attached to outside of the Ipod just to experiment and see what the difference was.
  
 I did drill 4 holes in the an old case to see if I could do it.
  
 The sound was as others described, bigger sound stage, 3D sound etc.
  
 That ipod has the biggest 47uf internal connected, stapped outside caps ever.
  
 Yes it's just fun.


----------



## Danthuyer

I'm finally getting around to doing this mod after collecting the pieces over years of procrastination....
  
 With regard to doing the internal CAP version on the gen 5 video .... I have a dozen of the Blackgate caps I bought years ago ..... are these still the preferred cap to use or has another cap taken the flavour ?
  
 Also I will be using a FiiO e12 Amp with the unit ... do I need to do anything to that unit ?


----------



## yacobx

danthuyer said:


> I'm finally getting around to doing this mod after collecting the pieces over years of procrastination....
> 
> With regard to doing the internal CAP version on the gen 5 video .... I have a dozen of the Blackgate caps I bought years ago ..... are these still the preferred cap to use or has another cap taken the flavour ?
> 
> Also I will be using a FiiO e12 Amp with the unit ... do I need to do anything to that unit ?


 

 mmmmm i wants some more black gates for.... reasons....
  
 I have a redwine 4g. i want do my own diy to my 5.5g. 
  
 anyways.... here ya go
  
 http://www.ualberta.ca/%7Ejple/diyMod/
  
 p.s. your amp is fine as long as you put caps in the iPod.


----------



## yacobx

rrg123 said:


> I'm also interested in the LOD with caps.
> Any details on it yet.
> 
> I've done monster caps for fun attached to outside of the Ipod just to experiment and see what the difference was.
> ...


 

 wait WHAT? that picture is real?????


----------



## rrg123

*It's the biggest imod in the world.*
  
 Yes those white caps are real.
 Here is a better picture.
 They are attached to the inside of the Ipod and I used rubber grommets to keep the wire from being cut.
  
 It works great but not practical.
  
 I did it as an experiment to see what bigger caps would sound like.
 It sounded amazing with a very spacious sound stage. Every instrument sound has a very distinct space almost side by side sound wrapping around your head from ear to ear.  
  
 I did blind test by putting this in a cardboard box and having people listen to it over the headphones.
 They loved it and then I showed them what I did and they said it was crazy.
  

  
 This one below is the final version I ended up selling on ebay. Little smaller caps.
  

 enjoy.


----------



## UnixFun

Greetings all. 

I've been reading this thread. Made it through 70 or so of the pages and then thought I'd sign up and ask a few questions since it stretches back many years and a lot of the pics have broken links. 

I love anything thats DIY. And I'll be doing this on a 5.5 wolfson and I really like the idea of bypassing the internals to get a cleaner single out. Also I plan on playing back mostly flac. 

1) if I do the line out mod with caps. It has no effect on the standard headphone out is that correct?

2) I'm looking at getting two of these caps. I saw them recommended somewhere but that might have been 3-4 years ago. http://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors-Leaded-SILMIC/dp/B0137LAT0E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455580951&sr=8-1&keywords=ELNA+Silmic-II+6.3v+47uf+%28x+2%29
Are these still good caps to purchase or should I be looking at something else?

3) what actually needs to be removed? The 2 Z components by the wolfson. And the 4 down by the dock? I see a lot of people doing a lot of different things?

4) If I make a LOD cable. What's the purpose of the resistors?

5) with the line out cap mod can this still be used on an iPod doc with the silver remote?

6) where can one buy small decent priced 30awg solid silver wire?

7) When I'm done I would like to have the dock still usable. To charge / transfer files etc. I'm assuming this is still there. Aka - are there any functionality issues one needs to be aware of?

8) using the line out with caps - I'd like to be able to plug this into various things like an Denon / Onkyo AV receiver. And maybe even run it through my Aune. 

9) Is there a good link for a 5.5 how to that someone can link. I can find some older ones like the 4 and different ones for the headphones. But not the line out cap. 

I think that's all for now. Thank you for your input it will be much appreciated,


----------



## kahei036

unixfun said:


>


 

 Hi,
  
 If you are strictly following guides on this thread, and given the job is cleanly done, you won't lose anything. All functions you used to have before the mod will still be there. All you have done is just bypassing some standard components with better ones.
  
 ELNA Slimic II has good reputation in signal path coupling, I haven't tried myself yet but I would think they deserve being called "good caps".
 Even better if you can get film caps to do such job, however they are much larger in size and you really need to review on your own design.
  
  
 Personally with aid in this post I have modded my iPod mini 1st gen. I've replaced the smd cap for headphone out with Panasonic FCs; and bypassed the linout cap / inductors on-board with a straight cable (I do have input cap in my amp to block the DC from WM8731.)
 It's been a really good experience for myself.


----------



## UnixFun

kahei036 said:


> Hi,
> 
> If you are strictly following guides on this thread, and given the job is cleanly done, you won't lose anything. All functions you used to have before the mod will still be there. All you have done is just bypassing some standard components with better ones.
> 
> ...




Can you point me to some recommended film caps?


----------



## junkers

How can you tell if an amp can handle a 2v DC offset? What should I look for in the spec sheet?


----------



## ClieOS

junkers said:


> How can you tell if an amp can handle a 2v DC offset? What should I look for in the spec sheet?


 
  
 An amp with input caps, and I never see any amp manufacturer mentioning whether they use input caps or not.
  
 Isn't a 2V DC offset a bit much?


----------



## junkers

clieos said:


> An amp with input caps, and I never see any amp manufacturer mentioning whether they use input caps or not.
> 
> Isn't a 2V DC offset a bit much?




I guess it is out of the norm, but just want to do some research if I go down the capless mod path.


----------



## DMinor

No doubt the capless audio path is the cleanest and most dynamic, and to these ears the wav's sound clearly more dynamic than the flac's played thru a completely capless pipeline. 
  
 The 2V may sacrifice some ceiling for the volume. This shouldn't be a problem for iem's generally.
  
 Capless dap/amp + dynamic drivers = Audio bliss


----------



## lescanadiens

Is silver the recommended wire for the bypass ot anybody could recommended a brand / tupe to use?
What about silver plated copper?

Thanks again!


----------



## kahei036

I have just done LO + PO mod, CF card mod and USB charge on my iPod 3G
  
 The CF card mod helps to create some space inside the housing, that I can put more hacks in.


----------



## Silvertone69

kahei036,
 That's awesome!  How does it sound?  Do you have any info on the PO mod and USB charge mod?  I would love be able to charge my 3G with USB.


----------



## mpawluk91

I gotta give it to you guys ur still goin strong!!! KEEP IT UP I MEAN IT


----------



## kahei036

silvertone69 said:


> kahei036,
> That's awesome!  How does it sound?  Do you have any info on the PO mod and USB charge mod?  I would love be able to charge my 3G with USB.


 
 PO mod the same topology as LO mod, actually it's much eaiser. You will see 2 larger cap rated 100uF right next to the socket connecting the back cover, and they are the coupling cap blocks the DC to headphone. I've replaced that with 2x 220uF electrolytic cap which is suggested in 8731 datasheet. Apple has put 100uF in 3G and iPod mini in this path, they might have good reasons. Or maybe just because a 220uF smd cap is just too large to put in. lol
  
 USB charge mod is simple as well. I bought a DC step up board from China, that bumps 5VDC to 12V DC. and connects the +12V out to firewire power pin. By doing  this when I plug in USB +5V there will also be a +12V power to firewire so it charges. 
  
 Having this added, I tested to chrage with PC USB output, which usually provides less current. This mod worried me a bit - since the step up circuit usually draws up more current for a higher voltage, it may overload the USB port. But to my test it is charging quite well.
  
 Below is a photo with the step up circuit board, the small board on the left above the battery.


----------



## 93EXCivic

What soldering irons do you guys use? I need to upgrade mine but I don't want to break the bank.
  
 Would something like this Circuit Specialists 60w work? https://www.circuitspecialists.com/60_Watt_Soldering_Station.html
  
 Or do I need to go all the way to Weller WES51 soldering iron?


----------



## axtran

Found this thread only recently--totally enjoyed reading the history of all of the mods. I'm going to plan on some internal caps (Kemet) when I get my 5.5 in--microSD storage, larger battery... all kinds of fun


----------



## tarhana

hi guys. newbie here. i have ipod video, thinking about modding it with blackgate. should i shell out 150 usd and get it done or play safe and buy new dap? does is sounds better than fiio x3 or ihifi 770? anyone compared?


----------



## mpawluk91

tarhana said:


> hi guys. newbie here. i have ipod video, thinking about modding it with blackgate. should i shell out 150 usd and get it done or play safe and buy new dap? does is sounds better than fiio x3 or ihifi 770? anyone compared?


I had audio minor do a DIYmod for me and I had an original fiio x3 at the same time
(totally different sound signatures)
The DIYmod way very dynamic sounding and bright! I loved it
The fiio x3 was warmer but lusher as well. More of a thick rounded but full sound

I sold the DIYmod because it needed an amp and the fiio x3 absolutely doesn't in my case. 

overall it was close but the fiio was honestly just more of everything. But I do miss that sparkly sounding iPod video ughhh jeeeez


----------



## tarhana

mpawluk91 said:


> I had audio minor do a DIYmod for me and I had an original fiio x3 at the same time
> (totally different sound signatures)
> The DIYmod way very dynamic sounding and bright! I loved it
> The fiio x3 was warmer but lusher as well. More of a thick rounded but full sound
> ...




thanks for quick answer. looks like i will try diymod first.


----------



## mpawluk91

tarhana said:


> thanks for quick answer. looks like i will try diymod first.


No problem


----------



## DMinor

tarhana said:


> hi guys. newbie here. i have ipod video, thinking about modding it with blackgate. should i shell out 150 usd and get it done or play safe and buy new dap? does is sounds better than fiio x3 or ihifi 770? anyone compared?


 
  
 It worth everything (even with failure) just for the diy fun. After you have done it successfully then you can try a comparison between imods with caps and without caps (capless). 
  
 To my ears the capless imod complimented by a capable capless amp has ended the game for me, but in this hobby YMMV.


----------



## mpawluk91

dminor said:


> It worth everything (even with failure) just for the diy fun. After you have done it successfully then you can try a comparison between imods with caps and without caps (capless).
> 
> To my ears the capless imod complimented by a capable capless amp has ended the game for me, but in this hobby YMMV.


Dude he's just starting lol the game has just begun 

And a DIYmod at that DAYYYUM! (bye bye wallet)


----------



## DMinor

Well when you join head-fi your wallet will pay the price, one way or the other


----------



## mpawluk91

dminor said:


> Well when you join head-fi your wallet will pay the price, one way or the other


Very true indeed, I think my first decent portable was a discman and he's starting with an imod and an amp "dangerous territory" I sense astell & kern taste in a year or 2 with that start


----------



## tarhana

mpawluk91 said:


> Very true indeed, I think my first decent portable was a discman and he's starting with an imod and an amp "dangerous territory" I sense astell & kern taste in a year or 2 with that start




i have sansa clip and o2 amp too but this will be my first real dap. 

would love to buy some pricey stuff like astells and lotoo paws but being student not helps. and turkish lira is really weak compared to us dollar unfortunately.


----------



## mpawluk91

tarhana said:


> i have sansa clip and o2 amp too but this will be my first real dap.
> 
> would love to buy some pricey stuff like astells and lotoo paws but being student not helps. and turkish lira is really weak compared to us dollar unfortunately.


If you ever feel the urge to upgrade from the DIYmod i recommend an ibasso dx90

It sounds great and far cheaper than a lot of things on a comparable level. But take your time. Even that Sansa clip can surprise you from time to time!


----------



## upperpartial

does anyone know of someone or a company in the uk who can do 5g ipod classic dac to lod mods?


----------



## jazzkass

What type of caps are those?


----------



## 93EXCivic

If I swap to an SD card setup, is there any restriction from Rockbox on the number of tracks that can be stored?


----------



## proud2deviate

Not too shabby for a first run. .  But where will the battery go?

  
  
 The iFlash cards sure open up a lot of room. . .
  
  

  
 I mostly did this as a feasibility test/practice on my spare 'pod. As you can see, the loss of the retention clip at the top allows a bit of a gap to open up. This is largely due to the positioning of the battery. I really need to get a different one in there, as the current one is placing a bit too much pressure on the back of the screen for my liking. The new line-out jack was salvaged from a torn ribbon cable assembly and super-glued in place (I hope to find a more elegant solution for the next one.) The capacitors are Elna Silmic II's (6.3v, 47 μF). It's nice not having to futz with a LOD


----------



## aim54x

Wondering if anyone can help. My iPod 20GB G4 Photo needed a new battery so I thought I would try to get the CF Mod going at the same time. The replacement battery worked a treat. I have my CF adapter (trimmed to fit) and have managed to get the iPod working with a 2GB and 4GB CF card. However when I use a CF>SD adapter I have had no luck (tried 8GB SD, 32GB SD, 128GB MicroSD).
  
 I guess I am looking for a suggestion as to which CF>SD adapter I should get. Can people share the brand of the ones they are currently using?


----------



## stellarelephant

I hope you get an answer.  Not much activity on this thread lately.  I have an iPod Video that I hope to diyMod soon.


----------



## Crash_Override

Is there a way to boost the sq out of the headphone port without it becoming just a line out? Like, would it be possible to make a simplified audio path by wiring directly from the dac to the headphone amp, then straight to the headphone jack? I plan to do the DiyMod and use an amp, but would like better audio from the headphone jack, as I may choose to not always have the amp with me.


----------



## joneeboi

A thousand apologies to the people in this thread. I more or less left head-fi for a good couple years, satisfied with my audio equipment. Thus, when my tutorials disappeared off those free file sharing sites, I meant to transition to a permanent page on my personal website. It fell through the cracks, so I will eventually get around to that in the next little while for those who are still looking up how to do it. I may even set it up on Instructables, so we'll see where my energy goes with that.


----------



## stellarelephant

Hey, Joneeboi, welcome back!  

I'm pretty decent with a soldering iron but I was never really able to get a clear conception of this mod since many 3rd party hosted images had gone missing by the time I discovered this thread, and I haven't seen a clear start-to-finish tutorial.  I have a 5.5gen just begging to be diyModded so I look forward to seeing what you cook up.


----------



## CH23

joneeboi said:


> A thousand apologies to the people in this thread. I more or less left head-fi for a good couple years, satisfied with my audio equipment. Thus, when my tutorials disappeared off those free file sharing sites, I meant to transition to a permanent page on my personal website. It fell through the cracks, so I will eventually get around to that in the next little while for those who are still looking up how to do it. I may even set it up on Instructables, so we'll see where my energy goes with that.



This message comes at the best of times, I recently bought myself an 80GB iPod 5.5, an iflash quad, and the capacitor kit they sell (it's cheaper than getting them from any other site)
I found your instructions via archive.org, but it'd be nice if they were available through normal ways again.

Having said this, I came here with a question, even after having read most of this thread:

Wouldn't not removing the capacitors (the 'Z' marked ones, and the ones close to the 30 pin connector) affect the sound quality, as the sound still goes through the internal amp section?


----------



## joneeboi

The sound leaves the Wolfson CODEC, then it enters a passive filter (inductors, capacities, resistors) before reaching the dock pins. There is no further amplification happening, so when we short the filter components, that is, rewiring from the CODEC’s output directly to the dock pins, there is effectively no sound traveling through the filter anymore. Electrons will follow the path of least resistance. There might be some leakage at the atomic level, but that won’t make a difference in what you hear. 

It’s much better to leave the components in there for durability when soldering. I’ve damaged my share of logic boards because the diyMod wire lifts the pad off like Godzilla tearing a Kleenex.


----------



## joneeboi

There is a lot that I have to work on, but I'm publishing it as is for now since I've been procrastinating this for years. I'll work on adding stuff like guides on how to open each device, but for now, there should be enough to go on to do your own diyMod.

https://www.instructables.com/id/DiyMod/


----------



## Ad-Astra

I heard people started to add capacitors to iPod


----------



## stellarelephant (Mar 7, 2018)

Hi Jonesboi,
Thank you for spending your time creating a valuable resource for the community!  I particularly like the educational primer at the beginning. As for the individual mod instructions, I think one helpful addition would be the inclusion of recommended capacitance values. 

Personally I want to mod my 5.5 gen. Are you are up for fielding questions here?  I would like to know  what cap values are needed to get a suitably low corner frequency (hopefully circa 2Hz).

Also curious about exactly how to wire them in. I can easily read that the first pic says "remove" over the stock SMD caps.  The resolution makes it hard to tell...does the next pic also say "remove" over the pair of chip resistors? 

I can see how wires are used to bridge the gap here between the old cap pads and the resistor pads in pics 1 and 2. That much is very clear. 

The next picture doesn't make sense to me though. This one:


Can you elaborate on what the arrows mean and what they are pointing to?


----------



## Slater

I too have a 5.5, and would love some clarification as to the items @stellarelephant mentioned above.

Also, some guidance sizes of caps that will 100% fit inside of the case, particularly when using the stock hard drive (or in my case, a 120gb ssd drive of the same dimensions as the stock mechanical drive).

Thanks so much!


----------



## CH23 (Mar 8, 2018)

To clarify for the people going by the old images:
don't remove the capacitors and resistors.
there's no need for it.
as for the green arrows, those are the testpads for the L and R line out. In case the pads come loose below the 2 resistors that are where the red arrows are.

When i find time i'll upload some better pics.


----------



## stellarelephant (Mar 9, 2018)

Thanks, CH23. That clarifies things partially.  So you are saying no components need to be lifted from the board whatsoever? Wouldn't this result in two parallel signal paths to the output pins...one stock and one upgraded?

Or are you recommending that we remove _only_ the resistors under the red arrows in the pic I attached?  And then if we lift those pads we actually get two (larger!) bonus pads to solder the wire to?  I think this makes more sense but please confirm.

To follow your wiring start to finish...Looks like you are feeding those wires from the original cap pads down through a hole to the other side of the board. And then I presume that this end of the wire gets soldered to the positive leg of the new cap, correct?  So then the final run of wire connects the negative cap leg to the either the test pad or the resistor pad (red or green arrow). How to know which is right and left channel?

One final question. Does this mod replace the capacitor on the way to the headphone jack or the LOD pins?  BTW It occurs to me now that my earlier question to Jobesboi about recommended capacitance was stupid, since really it all depends on the load impedance.


----------



## CH23 (Sep 14, 2018)

stellarelephant said:


> Thanks, CH23. That clarifies things partially.  So you are saying no components need to be lifted from the board whatsoever? Wouldn't this result in two parallel signal paths to the output pins...one stock and one upgraded?


electricity always chooses the way of least resistance, so it'll go down the DIYmod wires.





> Or are you recommending that we remove _only_ the resistors under the red arrows in the pic I attached?  And then if we lift those pads we actually get two (larger!) bonus pads to solder the wire to?  I think this makes more sense but please confirm.


I believe no components at all need to be removed.





> To follow your wiring start to finish...Looks like you are feeding those wires from the original cap pads down through a hole to the other side of the board. And then I presume that this end of the wire gets soldered to the positive leg of the new cap, correct?  So then the final run of wire connects the negative cap leg to the either the test pad or the resistor pad (red or green arrow). How to know which is right and left channel?


the wire from the DAC goes to the POSITIVE marked side of the capacitor, the NEGATIVE side goes to the 30 pin connector.

on the DAC side, Left cap is Left channel, Right cap is Right channel
on the Line Out side, Right resistor is Left channel, Left resistor is Right channel
don't know about the testpads.



> One final question. Does this mod replace the capacitor on the way to the headphone jack or the LOD pins?  BTW It occurs to me now that my earlier question to Jobesboi about recommended capacitance was stupid, since really it all depends on the load impedance.




the only irreversible modding i did was to the front case (i'll show pics)

as said, nothing gets replaced, however, the DIYmod bypasses the capacitors on the board, to the LOD.


----------



## CH23 (Mar 9, 2018)

Pic 1 & 2: full overview of wires on front + channels. I used cyanoacrylate (a type of glue) to hold the wires down. results may vary, depending what your wires are made of. mine were teflon.



Pic 3 & 4: close ups of DAC wiring + LOD side wiring. (I am not 100% sure if I should have wired them after the smaller resistors?) solder south of L2 and L3 (L2 is Right channel, L3 is Left channel)



Pic 5 & 6: wiring on the backside. put the caps anywhere you like, just think of the HDD and battery that'll have to fit in there.



Pic 7: here the iFlash Quad has been installed



Pic 8 & 9: just above the scrollwheel 'gaps', I burned the plastic away, so that the wires that go through the holes, have the space to be. Be sure to remove the excess plastic or it won't sit flush. And finally a working iPod video running rockbox from my 200GB µSD card


----------



## stellarelephant

Killer description and photos. Thanks. How does it sound with those Silmics compared to stock?


----------



## CH23

stellarelephant said:


> Killer description and photos. Thanks. How does it sound with those Silmics compared to stock?



thanks!

the line out is now louder(when on same volume), clearer, warmer.
bass has actual impact now.

the value of the Silmics i used: Elnas Silmic II, 47µF, 6.3v.
I actually got a kit from iflash.xyz because i can't find such a small gauge teflon coated wire on spool for a good price, shipping to the Netherlands.

I'd like to know if i soldered the wires near the 30 pin connector on the right spot.
i most definitely did. the 2 testpads go above the tiny resistors.

also @joneeboi feel free to use those pictures and description as you please, modify as you see fit.


----------



## stellarelephant

I've been looking closely at your pics.  The mod procedure is finally becoming clear to me for the first time!



CH23 said:


> I'd like to know if i soldered the wires near the 30 pin connector on the right spot.
> i most definitely did. the 2 testpads go above the tiny resistors.



You're talking about soldering right onto the L1 and L3 resistors, on the terminals closest to the edge of the PCB, correct?

And if I soldered the wires to the test pads instead, then the resistors would not be bypassed unless I removed them...is that what you mean by "above"?


----------



## CH23

stellarelephant said:


> I've been looking closely at your pics.  The mod procedure is finally becoming clear to me for the first time!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's actually L2 and L3 (but that's probably just a typo on your side, i hope?)

i've made a drawing of how exactly this part of the PCB is stuck together.



the black+grey things are the big and small resistors, dark green is the traces, yellow is the test pads, and white are the wires I added.
red is where i thought i should have soldered the wires to, but because it was mentioned to use the testpads if soldering to the big resistors failed, that would be wrong.

If i had soldered above the big resistors, i would not have bypassed them. But I was thinking that I had to bypass the small ones.

I believe I soldered the wires in the right place.


----------



## stellarelephant (Mar 10, 2018)

Awesome...Paint to the rescue!  L2 and L3, right.  OK, so there is nothing but copper trace between the test pads and the L2 and L3 resistor terminals you used!   I will probably use the test pads just because they are a little bigger with extra space to work around them. 

With 47uF, you should have a very generous margin of capacitance for driving even low impedance amp inputs with total bass extension.  And Silmics are some of the best electrolytic caps I have listened to, probably the absolute best in the bass department.  Its cool to hear that your output is not only clearer now but also louder.  Time to get a spudger tool


----------



## CH23

stellarelephant said:


> Awesome...Paint to the rescue!  L2 and L3, right.  OK, so there is nothing but copper trace between the test pads and the L2 and L3 resistor terminals you used!  * I will probably use the test pads* just because they are a little bigger with extra space to work around them.
> 
> With 47uF, you should have a very generous margin of capacitance for driving even low impedance amp inputs with total bass extension.  And Silmics are some of the best electrolytic caps I have listened to, probably the absolute best in the bass department.  Its cool to hear that your output is not only clearer now but also louder.  Time to get a spudger tool



The reason I didn't use the testpads is because allthrough this thread, i've seen people saying that the copper lifts quite easily from the PCB. That's also the reason why it's advised not to remove any components.

Good luck!


----------



## CH23

It was brought to my attention that I had the polarity of the capacitors reversed, which I did.

I have changed the post to reflect this.

While it's never good to have polarised capacitors in reverse, as long as the voltage remains way below threshold, it should not damage anything in the circuitry, but if you do see a chance to change this, then by all means do so.


What I had written before:

The capacitor *negative* lead should be attached to the DAC, the capacitor *positive* lead should be attached to the line out

What is right:

The capacitor *positive* lead should be attached to the DAC, the capacitor *negative* lead should be attached to the line out

Another misconception of mine, is that the 'z' capacitors can't be removed, because you would lose the ability to use the headphone output. 
As it turns out, the wolfson DAC has 2 outputs, and the headphone output is separate from the line out output.

So you can remove the 'z' capacitors, but be careful not to damage any of the other components, and not to overheat the pads, as this would most likely lift them.

Thanks Tarkan et al.


----------



## stellarelephant

Thanks for the useful update. I knew there was I reason I hadn't gotten around to this yet


----------



## BobpAmp

I've read many of the pages in this thread but not all 213 so forgive me if this has been asked already but I'm wondering about making a DAC out of an ipod 5g or maybe just having one that can be used as an ipod and a DAC for other inputs. What would need to be added to allow this? Basically I would want a USB input from a computer or iphone; coaxial or SPDF are not needed for my use. Would it be as simple as a USB jack or input via the 30 pin connector to the Wolfson CODEC or does it need to go through caps and/or resistors? If so, where to connect?  And what are the limitations and problems with this DAC?  

My reason for this DAC is to have a small portable DAC that sounds great for virtually very little money. I assume that any digital signal going through the ipod wolfson will sound good, especially with the imod caps. Does the imod sound this good?  Or are there better paths to take for a DAC?

Also, I read a bunch around pages 172-175 about using Kemet caps for the imod. Are these still the preferred caps to use?  Any new info as the info i read is from 5 years ago or more. 

Many thanks in advance; this is my first post here. I'm a NOOB to electronics and excited to see what i can build or modify....


----------



## BobpAmp

BobpAmp said:


> I've read many of the pages in this thread but not all 213 so forgive me if this has been asked already but I'm wondering about making a DAC out of an ipod 5g or maybe just having one that can be used as an ipod and a DAC for other inputs. What would need to be added to allow this? Basically I would want a USB input from a computer or iphone; coaxial or SPDF are not needed for my use. Would it be as simple as a USB jack or input via the 30 pin connector to the Wolfson CODEC or does it need to go through caps and/or resistors? If so, where to connect?  And what are the limitations and problems with this DAC?
> 
> My reason for this DAC is to have a small portable DAC that sounds great for virtually very little money. I assume that any digital signal going through the ipod wolfson will sound good, especially with the imod caps. Does the imod sound this good?  Or are there better paths to take for a DAC?
> 
> ...



Anyone still involved with this thread?  I updated my iPod 5g to a 128gb SD card and loaded a bunch of old CD's as Apple Lossless files, and then through a Little Bear B5 mini tube amp.  It all sounds pretty good but I'm in the process of trying a bunch of better op amps in the B5. However, I'd like to try the iMod still but wondering on the best caps. Are the Kemet caps still the best choice?  Not sure where the iMod stopped evolving, and I suppose became obsolete, but it remains a great choice for all of my old CD's in a single compact unit. The interface is a bit clumsy but you do get used to it after a bit. 

Thanks for any insight into the caps and also a DAC input via USB.


----------



## enregistree

This could be interesting years ago, but now it makes no sense… You can get digital out from any iphone or current ipod (touch) without hacking the device. You can not get digital out from any non-touch iPod – 5G (video), classic, or older. So ipod 5G with analog output modification used to be "the way" – but no longer imho.


----------



## BobpAmp

enregistree said:


> This could be interesting years ago, but now it makes no sense… You can get digital out from any iphone or current ipod (touch) without hacking the device. You can not get digital out from any non-touch iPod – 5G (video), classic, or older. So ipod 5G with analog output modification used to be "the way" – but no longer imho.



I think you're missing the point:  Any music on an iphone takes up valuable space or is streaming so the quality versus space problem will come up.  Many of us still have huge CD collections from years past that we can rip and install on an ipod very easily and cheaply now. So to further enhance the sound quality with a simple iMod makes perfect sense.  If you're into sound quality, then this mod still has a place. I think....as i haven't done the mod yet, i can't say for sure but i'll let you know soon. However, from what i've read,  i am still willing to order the parts and play with different caps to see what happens. But even with just a stock ipod, the sound quality is very good.  I suppose an ipod touch might be better but i don't know what DAC or other parts a Touch has. If you don't care what kind of file you're listening to or what kind of DAC your files are flowing through, then I suppose this may not interest you. Of course, then you're probably in the wrong forum....


----------



## enregistree

Use anything you like, there are good reasons like already having the device, storage space... I use any player or device with digital output and connect it to external portable dac/amp of my choice. Sadly you can not get digital out from ipod 5g and similar. So iphone and itouch have this possibility, as many other players. I still own ipod 5g, upgraded with larger hd and output analog stage bypassed (imod). It can not play higher res than 24/48 btw. What annoyed me most was 3G (edge?) interference - that t-t-tdak sounds.


----------



## Slater

enregistree said:


> Use anything you like, there are good reasons like already having the device, storage space... I use any player or device with digital output and connect it to external portable dac/amp of my choice. Sadly you can not get digital out from ipod 5g and similar. So iphone and itouch have this possibility, as many other players. I still own ipod 5g, upgraded with larger hd and output analog stage bypassed (imod). It can not play higher res than 24/48 btw. What annoyed me most was 3G (edge?) interference - that t-t-tdak sounds.



When I use my iPod Classic 5G, I use it with a like out adapter that uses the 30-pin and not the headphone jack.

My understanding is this bypasses the output stage and provides the cleanest sound. Am I mistaken?


----------



## BobpAmp

I was under the impression that ipods have digital out through the 30 pin dock, no?


----------



## Slater

BobpAmp said:


> I was under the impression that ipods have digital out through the 30 pin dock, no?



Me too. That’s why I use a 30-pin dock to 3.5mm adapter between my iPod Classic and FiiO amp.


----------



## CH23

Slater said:


> Me too. That’s why I use a 30-pin dock to 3.5mm adapter between my iPod Classic and FiiO amp.



that makes no sense. you thought it had digital output so you amplify this digital output?


----------



## Slater

CH23 said:


> that makes no sense. you thought it had digital output so you amplify this digital output?



Sorry, I misread that at the time. I meant line out not digital out.


----------



## BobpAmp

CH23 said:


> that makes no sense. you thought it had digital output so you amplify this digital output?



There is also the ability to go digital out with a 30 pin to USB cable, isn't there?  Also, I believe there were docks that were made for this reason too. I could be wrong but I thought the 30 pin was fairly versatile and inclusive with all types of input/output.....
Or wouldn't it be fairly easy to modify with a DIY digital out?


----------



## CH23 (Jan 2, 2019)

BobpAmp said:


> There is also the ability to go digital out with a 30 pin to USB cable, isn't there?  Also, I believe there were docks that were made for this reason too. I could be wrong but I thought the 30 pin was fairly versatile and inclusive with all types of input/output.....
> Or wouldn't it be fairly easy to modify with a DIY digital out?



The 6g supports digital output, but you can't amplify digital signal(well, you can but it serves no function)
earlier iPods don't have digital output.
If you  would create your own digital receptor, you'll need to do it according to Apple's specs.
The document that describes these are called:

iPod Authentication Coprocessor 2.0B Specification (for a piece of hardware that tells the ipod that the connected device is licensed by apple)

MFi Accessory Firmware Specification R46 (for iPod Accessory Protocol v1)

MFi Accessory Interface Specification R18 (for iPod Accessory Protocol v2)

All are available on the internet with some searching



Slater said:


> Sorry, I misread that at the time. I meant line out not digital out.



That makes more sense 

The line out of the 5g is way better than the headphone out.

On the 6g headphone out sounds nearly the same as line out, if you have headphone out at 80% volume.


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## Slater

CH23 said:


> The line out of the 5g is way better than the headphone out.
> 
> On the 6g headphone out sounds nearly the same as line out, if you have headphone out at 80% volume.



Interesting you mention the 6G sounding nearly the same. That would explain why the dock adapter output sounds infinitely better on my Classic 5G, but makes little to no noticeable difference on my Nano 6G.


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## CH23

Slater said:


> Interesting you mention the 6G sounding nearly the same. That would explain why the dock adapter output sounds infinitely better on my Classic 5G, but makes little to no noticeable difference on my Nano 6G.



I'm not sure how similar the nano is to the classic, but the circuitry in the 6g classic is much less complex, making for a cleaner signal as less components are between DAC and headphone port.


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## Omegart

Hi guys, I recently done the mod with the kit sold by tarkan. I also installed a iflash quad with 2x 200gb sandisk micro sd.
The sound is much clear now, but I have a lot of problems with the music.. after copying the music on the device it sound a lot distorded.
If I listen directly from the ipod or from my computer, directly in vlc, it is the same, sometime is faster, sometimes it skips pieces altogheter, missing word or jumping around.

May I have damaged something while doing the mod? Or those kind of problems are more related to the adapter? I tried with 3x 32gb sandisk card and it's just the same..
The ipod is rockboxed.


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## DMinor

Omegart said:


> Hi guys, I recently done the mod with the kit sold by tarkan. I also installed a iflash quad with 2x 200gb sandisk micro sd.
> The sound is much clear now, but I have a lot of problems with the music.. after copying the music on the device it sound a lot distorded.
> If I listen directly from the ipod or from my computer, directly in vlc, it is the same, sometime is faster, sometimes it skips pieces altogheter, missing word or jumping around.
> 
> ...



Wow long time no here and this thread is still alive.
I don't think you have damaged the board. It's possible with the cards (if not genuine such as some of those sold from ebay especially from China). But from my distance memory, it could be something to do with how the files are copied. Try use Rockbox and copy the music files.


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## DMinor

BobpAmp said:


> I've read many of the pages in this thread but not all 213 so forgive me if this has been asked already but I'm wondering about making a DAC out of an ipod 5g or maybe just having one that can be used as an ipod and a DAC for other inputs. What would need to be added to allow this? Basically I would want a USB input from a computer or iphone; coaxial or SPDF are not needed for my use. Would it be as simple as a USB jack or input via the 30 pin connector to the Wolfson CODEC or does it need to go through caps and/or resistors? If so, where to connect?  And what are the limitations and problems with this DAC?
> 
> My reason for this DAC is to have a small portable DAC that sounds great for virtually very little money. I assume that any digital signal going through the ipod wolfson will sound good, especially with the imod caps. Does the imod sound this good?  Or are there better paths to take for a DAC?
> 
> ...



From my experience the Kemet caps are excellent.


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## Omegart

Yeah I'm a huge fan of clickwheel and ipod video, can't stand all those touch things, I find them very uncomfortable.
At the very end the problem was rockbox, something related to sata driver. Copying files with apple firmware it's good to go!


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## wgr73

Still going strong, 214 pages, wow!  I'd have never imagined this to blow up the way it did!  12 years have already passed


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## Danthuyer

I've noticed a few of the original resource page links no longer work 

I still never got around to doing my mod to my gen 5 and my gen 3 LOL and I have a bunch of Caps which I purchased back in 2013 which are still in perfect condition and my IEM and Amp collection has grown over the last years also so im keen to kick this project off again

Where is the most up to date version of the mod for both of these models with the Caps built inside the chassis and NOT in the LOD ??

Also if anyone want some Caps I am willing to sell some


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## DR650SE

Hey guys,

I'm looking for a clear guide on where to solder with a 4th Gen iPod.  I know the output "Z" capacitors/Resistors need to be removed near the DAC,  Tha much is clear enough for me.  What I'm looking for is where does the other end get soldered to?  I'm trying to set this up with a Line Out connection.  I'd like to stay away from soldering to the headphone jack.  I'm just wondering what capacitors I need to remove and solder to for the 4th Gen "iMod" to work via Line Out Dock.

Any assistance pics, or info would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!!


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## DR650SE

DR650SE said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm looking for a clear guide on where to solder with a 4th Gen iPod.  I know the output "Z" capacitors/Resistors need to be removed near the DAC,  Tha much is clear enough for me.  What I'm looking for is where does the other end get soldered to?  I'm trying to set this up with a Line Out connection.  I'd like to stay away from soldering to the headphone jack.  I'm just wondering what capacitors I need to remove and solder to for the 4th Gen "iMod" to work via Line Out Dock.
> 
> Any assistance pics, or info would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!!



Bump,  Looking for some quick info.  Thanks!!


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## beavis87

Youtube recommended a video yesterday about upgrading iPods with flashcards and scrapping the hard drive. So after finding my old 5th gen iPod Video, which happens to be broken (white screen) and spending an entire evening researching how to upgrade it, I was led to this thread here. I want to load up my lossless collection and add more onto my iPod to have a portable and acceptable hi-fi listening solution. I lke that I can plug it into my car stereo and have access to much better quality songs than what streaming or satellite services offer. So i have an iFlash quad microSD card board, a 512gb microSD card, their capacitor kit, and a 3000mAh battery on the way. Now I have to find a good pair of IEMs to go with this once its built. Anyone has any recommendations to polish the scratches off of the plastic face and metal back of an iPod I would appreciate that.


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## Slater

beavis87 said:


> Anyone has any recommendations to polish the scratches off of the plastic face and metal back of an iPod I would appreciate that.



For the scratches, it’s waaaay easier to order the rebuild parts and do it yourself. I rebuilt 2 iPod Classics, giving them everything brand new - case, click wheel, headphone jack, battery, front cover, back cover, plastic window. In fact, I even converted one of them into a U2 Special Edition.

I don’t remember the exact prices for everything, but it was very reasonable since the iPod is so old.


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## axtran

Now that it's 2020... anyone have a recommendation on a LOD cable that I can use with a desktop amp?


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## DJtheAudiophile

Danthuyer said:


> I've noticed a few of the original resource page links no longer work
> 
> I still never got around to doing my mod to my gen 5 and my gen 3 LOL and I have a bunch of Caps which I purchased back in 2013 which are still in perfect condition and my IEM and Amp collection has grown over the last years also so im keen to kick this project off again
> 
> ...



I would like to know this as well


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## DJtheAudiophile

I got a few questions before I do my mod. If I mod the iPod internally with caps, would I also have to mod a LOD with new caps? I plan to use the iPod with an amp. Any recommendations on a amp that works well with the iMod by ALO Audio or Cypher Labs?


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## Mr Brett

I have a Red Wine Audio iMod iPod.
Run it with aRay Samuels SR71A and SR71B, as well as Triad Audio L3.

It plays well with all three.


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## Danthuyer

Amazing what a few years does to you....
I finally got around to finishing a project I started many many years ago. thought id share my joy of completing this awesome mod on a gen 3 Classic.
If anyone is looking for some of the black-gate-nx-hi-q-6-3v-47uf-capacitor I still have a bunch left and can post anywhere in the world from Australia.

So glad I finally got around to completing this 11 yr journey !


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## iQEM (May 3, 2022)

hi everyone,

how are you doin, guys..
long time not seeing this marvelous thread, misses you guys..really..

just wondering, are there still using those diyMod ipod nano 1stG?
i’ve lost track of mine long time ago, i lend it back to my sister (the original owner) and she forgot where she put it..
but hey, i got 2pcs (the white one are 4gb variant) that can be use for an experiment..and an extra 2 main board for spare..
so, different from 2007, i’m having more skill at soldering micro parts now (diy’ing my own BA iem), adjustable solder with fine tips, got magnifier glass with led, and a helping hand..
the only thing are missing is, i completely forgot what to do, to make diyMod nano 1stGen..
and it seems that not any of pict’s from the nano’s still there, missing link from imageshack and so on..
So, need help anyone, Jon? Christine? Ishtob? anyone?
post a pict of your Nano front and backplate so i could see where should i start to begin with..

many thanks in advance..


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## Inspector Gadget

Not sure why anyone would think an IMOD competes with anything around today. It was invented to bypass dodgy ceramic output caps on a pretty average quality dac (by todays standards), with no output buffer. We have many players and portable dacs these days that simply dont have these issues to begin with.


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## DenverW

Inspector Gadget said:


> Not sure why anyone would think an IMOD competes with anything around today. It was invented to bypass dodgy ceramic output caps on a pretty average quality dac (by todays standards), with no output buffer. We have many players and portable dacs these days that simply dont have these issues to begin with.


Thanks for your feedback!  Always great for people to stop by and let everyone know you think they're wasting time.


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## Danthuyer

Inspector Gadget said:


> Not sure why anyone would think an IMOD competes with anything around today. It was invented to bypass dodgy ceramic output caps on a pretty average quality dac (by todays standards), with no output buffer. We have many players and portable dacs these days that simply dont have these issues to begin with.


Sounds like you're from the bought not built side of the fence ... That's cool you do you and we will tinker with cool old crap and have something interesting and unique that we enjoy listening to


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## Mr Brett

Still love both of my iMods.


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## joneeboi

iQEM said:


> and it seems that not any of pict’s from the nano’s still there, missing link from imageshack and so on..
> So, need help anyone, Jon? Christine? Ishtob? anyone?
> post a pict of your Nano front and backplate so i could see where should i start to begin with..
> 
> many thanks in advance..


A thousand apologies, iQEM. I thought I had updated the first post with the Instructables project, but apparently not. I've fixed that now.

https://www.instructables.com/DiyMod/



Inspector Gadget said:


> Not sure why anyone would think an IMOD competes with anything around today. It was invented to bypass dodgy ceramic output caps on a pretty average quality dac (by todays standards), with no output buffer. We have many players and portable dacs these days that simply dont have these issues to begin with.


If you are into computers at all, you'll find there's a longstanding tradition of propping up old devices. There are museums and collectors who seek out obscure, low-production, esoteric products because there's an innate human need to reconnect with the past and remember where we came from, be they typewriters or video game consoles or what-have-you. 

I'm actually still shocked myself that this thread is still alive somehow, being a project from my university/starving student days, but you'd be surprised how different everyone's audio setups can be. On my own, I play vinyl records on some Sony receiver to floorstanding Pioneer speakers; stream music to AirPods Pro 2nd or AirPods Max using Apple Music and Spotify; AirPlay to an iPod Hi-Fi with a Raspberry Pi running shairport-sync through my Carrie Amp; stream over AirPlay 2 to a HomePod and HomePod mini; bop to CDs on road trips in the car; and occasionally listen to wired headphones on an iPod 5G without diyMod. Once upon a time, I played CDs on a modified Playstation 1; amped HD650s through a Millett Hybrid MAX; wore a fanny pack containing a Creative Zen Vision:M playing through a PIMETAv2 to KSC75s; and even just listened on a straightforward USB flash drive player (whose make and model I forget) to Shure E2Cs. That's just me, and I'm sure you'll find a similar level of diversity if you ask five people around you. Audio is different for everyone, and that's okay.

We didn't have today's devices 15 years ago, and it's not unusual for people to keep old technology around. You may be shocked to learn how much of the world still uses dial-up, 56k internet. Like the others said, the diyMod isn't for everyone, but neither is music or audio in general. 

Let people enjoy things.


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## Mr Brett

I'm using one of my iMods in my car.


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