# hotaudio40 's amps



## misterDX

http://cgi.ebay.com/High-End-Battery...QQcmdZViewItem

 anyone dealt with this guy before? i would like some kind of impression of his amps, thanks


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## cotdt

what's a CMOR? Is that better than a CMOY?


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## misterDX

no one?


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## misterDX

bump


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## billinkansas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *misterDX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://cgi.ebay.com/High-End-Battery...QQcmdZViewItem

 anyone dealt with this guy before? i would like some kind of impression of his amps, thanks_

 

I picked up one of David's little amps about a month ago. I've been listening to it with my DX1000's off and on. Really nice spacious and lively sound. Lots of power too. I'm very pleased, and at such a fair price to boot.

 Can't tell you much about battery life just yet. Hope this helps.


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## powerslave

I just got his USB dac from ebay and it sounds very good for the $80 I spent. I think i will try the OPA2134 amp and see how that works for me. I urge anyone who's looking for good sound on the cheap to check hotaudio40 out on ebay.


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## courierdriver

If anyone who has one of these would be so kind to do a review, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm looking for an outboard USB-dac to upgrade my Audigy ZS 2 soundcard in the $100-$200 price range and this looks like it might have some potential. Any takers?


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## HardHeadCase

Maybe if the link worked or someone could mention what the product is?


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## powerslave

HardHeadCase, here are the items he has listed on ebay currently:

eBay Seller: hotaudio40: Home Audio, Portable Audio Video items on eBay.com

 He's got 3 main HP amps from what I've seen. A USB dac/amp, HP amp and HP amp/preamp. He uses a couple of different opamps in these for variety I guess. These are no frills products, designed for maximum sound quality at a reasonable price without the bells and whistles. I got the USB dac a few weeks ago and that was much better then my audigy 2, particularly utilizing asio4all plugin in foobar. This past week I got the opa2134 version amp and it makes even my cheap pioneer dvd player sound pretty damn good. I suppose it depends on the headphones as well but both my grado sr60 and senn 580's sound good. You can see he offers some for bid and others for buy it now or best offer. In my case he accepted a much lower offer and you can contact him and work something out, he's very easy going and informative about his products. He's got good feedback on ebay too.


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## HardHeadCase

Link wasn't working earlier, I think he sold that unit and relisted to sell another.


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## powerslave

Strange, works for me. Go to ebay and either do a seller search for hotaudio40 or search for USB DAC HIGH-PERFORMANCE and from there you can see the other items he has for sale.


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## jayinhk

Anyone know which chip is used in the USB DAC hotaudio has up for sale?


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## honglong

yes, the USB/DAC is PCM2707


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## powerslave

Thanks hong, in conversations with him the other day, he also mentioned he has begun producing some USB DAC's based off of the 2704/2705 and is also working on a 2702 with opamp buffer.


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## honglong

I had the same chat via email about the new USB Dac's he is working on.

 I got mine today from Canada. Ordered Monday, fastest postage ever from Canada to the UK, 4 days!

 The USB DAC is very nice, well packaged, professional looking. It detected instantly in OS X Leopard as "USB Audio DAC" and sounds amazing. Its not burnt in yet. But its sooo clear and airy with a very very good tuneful bass.

 I am very impressed.

 What a true bargain.

 I only wanted it so I can use it at work to output sound to my headphones, but I am seriously considering using it at home as well and I may purchase one of the future models to do just that.


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## hotaudio40

Well I just want to say that I am the hotaudio40 of this tread, and I must say I am flattered and appreciative of all the nice things you guys are saying about my amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I really want to offer you guys the best possible sound that I can personally produce. I am a minimalist at heart, but a firm believer in Maximum quality. I will keep this post short, but I just wanted you all to know how much I enjoy your feedback and that I read all your comments and take everything said to heart. Thanks!


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## ammatos

For those that still haven't been able to get to HotAudio40's store on eBay, here is the link:

eBay Store - Personal Audio: Headphone Amplifiers, Guitar Electronics

 The store's name is "Personal Audio". That's it. Enjoy!

 a.


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## Murcielago64

Will the 'Pocket Upgradeable High-Fidelity Headphone Amplifier' or the usb model be powerful enough to drive the AKG K701s?


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## hotaudio40

The Pocket Upgradeable Headphone Amp will drive about 2x as much power as a regular headphone output. So whatever you get out of you normal headphone out of an iPod , etc. double that. I have not tried AKG K701s but I know it will drive about twice as hard as an MP3 player output etc. Hope this helps. Dave.


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## powerslave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Murcielago64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will the 'Pocket Upgradeable High-Fidelity Headphone Amplifier' or the usb model be powerful enough to drive the AKG K701s?_

 

I have both and they drive my Senn 580's just fine. I believe they are much harder to drive then the AKG's. If you have a good source, then the pocket amp works great. Clean, dynamic and clear sound. The USB dac is also an underrated performer at these prices.


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## nabulous

I received my USB DAC/headphone amp today and within an hour of playback, it started sounded excellent. Airy and spacious sound, Wonderfully light but crisp treble, compact but powerful bass, and a great soundstage. makes my k240s shine. I dont really have much to compare it with, as i am a new head-fi'er, but i know it sounds great! and at such a fair price too.


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## david1201

I also just received my USB DAC today and it sounds excellent after a little burn-in! Comparable in my mind to my old Pionieer Elite CD player.

 I will say however, that my AKG 601's needed a little more power to sound their best - I'm using this DAC with a headphone amp I bought from Biosciencegeek on ebay, and I'd have to say the two together sound excellent!


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## dandi

I have been using Dave's USB amp dac for a month or so. Hotaudio is doing some very good audio work. I run the amp dac off my laptop through a Lunchbox II with very satisfying results. This is a Hi-fidelity piece of audio equipment. Don't be fooled by the price. I find the amp dac to be neutral with an open soundstage and very detailed.


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## boba6

I bought a few weeks ago the USB DAC High Fidelity Digital Stereo Headphone Amplifier with PCM2707 and very satisfied.
 The shipping even to Europe was very cheap and fast.
 Highly recommended.


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## psc001

How does this product compare to other Dac/Amp combos that are reviewed ...? (such as Ibasso, Pico, etc)


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## 1Time

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boba6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought a few weeks ago the USB DAC High Fidelity Digital Stereo Headphone Amplifier with PCM2707 and very satisfied.
 The shipping even to Europe was very cheap and fast.
 Highly recommended._

 

I also bought this USB DAC/amp a few weeks ago, and it has been serving me quite well. I doubt there's a USB DAC / amp on the market today with a higher price / performance ratio. hotaudio40 also sells it by the name of HotUSB1. My model has the USB cable attached, which works fine for me. The ones now selling are the same but come with a detachable USB cable. 

 The only reason I'm now looking to upgrade is I wished the HotUSB1 drove my HD580 to louder volumes. It drives them loud enough by I'm sure most people's standards, but I want my HD580 to be driven very loud. I assume the HotUSB1 would drive more efficient or easier to drive headphones louder. My next step with my HotUSB1 likely will be to add an inline amp like this: computer's USB > HotUSB1 > amp > HD580.


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## 1Time

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *psc001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does this product compare to other Dac/Amp combos that are reviewed ...? (such as Ibasso, Pico, etc)_

 

I have no idea, but the HotUSB1 does sell for considerably less. It would be nice if someone with a more expensive DAC/amp could write up a comparison.


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## psc001

Has anybody bought the headphone amp instead of the USB/DAC ...?


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## ok computer

anyone want to compare this to the emu 0404 usb or ibasso dacs?


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## 1Time

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ok computer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone want to compar this to the emu 0404 usb or ibasso dacs?_

 

Perhaps if someone was willing to loan out their HotUSB1for the comparison.


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## powerslave

1Time, you should consider trying his opa2134 headphone amp to add some extra juice out of the hotusb1. I know exactly what you mean that the hotusb1 could use a little ooph with the 580's. I'm currently using the opa2134 amp with a cd player and it drives my 580's alot better. I don't turn it up more then a few notches and it's pretty loud.


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## hotaudio40

Once again I'm flattered by you guys. I should hire 1Time for all the great things he is saying about my amps. One thing I must say though is all my HOTUSB1 amps are using PCM2705's now. They have just a little more jam then the previous models which were either PCM2707's or PCM2704's which were my first chips. But now I use only PCM2705's. I have a few PCM2707's around but they are not being used, maybe by special order 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They all sound amazing, the difference is the 2705 is a bit louder, and the 04, and 07 are perhaps a little warmer. But like I said, they all sound amazing. TI and Burr Brown make amazing chips period. Soon I will be adding a buffer stage to the output of the HOTUSB1, perhaps a AD8397 as it is a rail to rail chip capable of driving low impedance loads and sounds pretty amazing as well, as a plus it will run off the 5 volt USB buss. Not sure what chip I'll use as a buffer yet though. There are a number that continually blow my mind. I will call it a different name so you can recognize it, like the HOTUSB4+ or something like that...

 Anyways, love reading this stuff, and feel honored by all the positive comments. 

 hotaudio40


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## 1Time

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powerslave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1Time, you should consider trying his opa2134 headphone amp to add some extra juice out of the hotusb1._

 

Thanks powerslave. I'm sure it would.


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## 1Time

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I should hire 1Time for all the great things he is saying about my amps._

 

Sure, I know nothing about making electronics but if telling the truth about the HotUSB1 is all it takes, put me on the payroll.


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## Joeshmo39

Got mine today and burned it in for a few hours while I ran around and it sounds pretty good. Moves the sound out a little and gives me a better feeling of space even on my SR-60s. Sounds clear and I don't hear any static. With the money I saved I am gonna look at 225s when I start getting paychecks next month, so I will post how it sounds with cans that benefit from an Amp.

 Also I thought I should add it's solid yet light and the build quality seems really good.


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## TheNew007

which one of his products should I get? I need both an amp and a dac so HotUSB1 is the only one capable of doing that right?


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## 1Time

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheNew007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_which one of his products should I get? I need both an amp and a dac so HotUSB1 is the only one capable of doing that right?_

 

It looks to me like hotaudio40 is currently selling a couple other USB DAC/amps that are similar to the HotUSB1. I suggest asking hotaudio40 which he recommends. What headphones will you be using?


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## alphaproject

So essentially it would completely bypass your soundcard then right?

 You don't use the stereo output at all on your soundcard just the USB port.

 I'm not sure how sound comes out of there if you are using a X-fi....can someone explain how it works?

 I might get it to power my DT770's and leave my X-fi for my 5.1 system that way I won't have to unplug the speaker/plug in the headphones any time I want to switch.


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## 1Time

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alphaproject* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So essentially it would completely bypass your soundcard then right
 You don't use the stereo output at all on your soundcard just the USB port._

 

Right. The PC sends the music to the HotUSB1 through a USB instead of through the sound card. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alphaproject* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure how sound comes out of there if you are using a X-fi....can someone explain how it works?_

 

You would select between the HotUSB1 or your sound card through "Sounds and Audio Devices" or whatever your operating system calls it. For Windows XP: Start > Control Panel > Sounds and Audio Devices > Audio > Default device. My PC speakers are connected to my sound card and my HotUSB1 is connected to a USB for my cans. I sometimes use a shortcut to Sounds and Audio Devices that's on my desktop. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alphaproject* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I might get it to power my DT770's and leave my X-fi for my 5.1 system that way I won't have to unplug the speaker/plug in the headphones any time I want to switch._

 

Yes, that's how it works.


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## hotaudio40

Yes. The HotUSB1 is exactly like an external USB sound card. It is stereo, has a 3.5mm female stereo Headphone jack, and has NO controls. All controls are done via the computer software. It will disable all other sound sources as far as I know. Thanks. Hotaudio40. I see 1Time beat me to it


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## Hopstretch

Thought I should probably post this here rather at the bottom of the thread that led to it.

 Long story short, I recently ordered a HotAudio DAC/amp as a gift for a friend. It's basically a HOTUSB2 (with the fixed USB cord) with a few tweaks -- a PCM2707 chip rather than the usual PCM2705 and some secret sauce which Dave said would make the DAC section "super quiet."

 Anyway, it arrived today courtesy of CanadaPost and I had a chance to A/B it with my Apogee Duet before wrapping it up for my friend. Initial impression: money well spent.

 Tried my 650s first, without expecting much from an amp the size of a large box of matches. And, yeah, it can't drive them fully. But it did surprisingly well. On the intro to Dire Straits' "Telegraph Road", the soundstage was a lot smaller on the HOTUSB, as you'd expect, but the reproduction was good, the bass hits had some authority and, as promised, the noise floor was very low. Same impression on Talk Talk's "Happiness is Easy" -- a really good recording with a beautiful close-miked upright bass line loping through it. Everything is still there, the little amp just doesn't have the power to bring it up close and personal on the 650s, where full volume on the Mac was just a shade above comfortable listening level.

 Then moved on to the Senn 555s I got to go with it, and here the competition is a lot closer. The Duet still does a better job, but at more than five times the price it really, really ought to. The HOTUSB happily drives the 555s close to earbleed and, again, the DAC section holds up its end very nicely. I've never heard 555s before, but I spent a contented half hour listening to random lossless tracks on shuffle and my inexpert opinion is that the combo with the HOTUSB is a pleasant one and an excellent value.

 Other than that, the unit is simplicity itself -- which may be a plus or a minus depending on your propensity to tweak. You plug the USB cable in, it's detected, you play music. There's a Mission Impossible footnote at the bottom of the short instruction sheet claiming the amp will commit hara-kiri if you try and open the casing. I don't intend to, so I can't testify to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dave was friendly and responsive via email. I'm happy with the purchase and think my friend will be very pleased with his starter rig.

 Th-th-that's all folks.


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## Citizen86

Bumping this thread, I just ordered mine, it'll probably be a while before I receive it down here in Mexico, but I'm excited to hear what this little guy can do. I just know my KSC75's can sound better than they do out of intergrated computer audio jacks


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## 1Time

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Citizen86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bumping this thread, I just ordered mine, it'll probably be a while before I receive it down here in Mexico, but I'm excited to hear what this little guy can do. I just know my KSC75's can sound better than they do out of intergrated computer audio jacks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I haven't heard the KSC75, but something tells me you're going to like the difference.


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## Capital

I just ordered the USB DAC and reading the comments here I can't wait. I'll be trying it out on a Darkvoice 336i and a newly purchased Meier Audio Headamp-1. 

 Has anyone compared this DAC with the popular EMU 0404 or Alien DAC? Those seem like tried and true DACs around here and it would be interesting to see a comparison.


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## Citizen86

Damn, 14 work days is a LONG time to wait, and that's hoping that it didn't get help up at the border


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## Capital

I received my USB DAC two days ago and have been using it since. Previously I was using a Leckerton Audio UHA-3 to feed a Meier Headamp 1. Headphones are Shure E500s.

 This DAC sounds great, comparing this to the Leckerton the vocals are more smooth and natural while the bass sounds tight and accurate. The highs are a bit rolled off when compared to the Leckerton but I would not say that they are lacking by any means. 

 I did have a problem with with a high pitch hum initially but quickly discovered it was interference from the powered USB hub that I was using. Going directly to the CPU solved the problem completely and resulted in complete silence. No hisses or hums, nice black silence.


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## alwayshungry

I bought a hotaudio40 USB headphone amp back in April. I'm pleased with the sound and noticed that the clarity increased (especially in the mids and highs) and bass tightened up after burning it in over a weekend. Well worth the money IMO.


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## chaudi

Is this device really better than an your average sound card? I'm planning on used it with a laptop and portable speakers.


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## Nemi

I just received my hotusb1 in the mail today. 

 I am very new to audiophile grade equipment yet I still had the common sense to not expect too much for a $63.00 DAC. However, I was pleasantly surprised.

 From the moment I plugged the DAC in, I noticed a pretty significant difference from my standard macbook headphone jack. Easily $63 worth of difference to me. 

 I'm currently using the hotusb1 with a pav2 (budget) and Bose OE (*Gasp!) and some RE2s. I couldn't be happier. I'm hearing a much fuller, detailed sound for a relatively cheap price. 

 As I have no other product to compare this to, I could be overrating the hotusb1, but I would recommend it to anyone just entering the realm of audiophile gear like me.


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## ggeeoo

I was wondering if anyone has compared the HotUSB1 with the DAC Super Pro DAC707 USB. I am considering to buy one of the two in order to drive my SR80 headphones.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ggeeoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if anyone has compared the HotUSB1 with the DAC Super Pro DAC707 USB. I am considering to buy one of the two in order to drive my SR80 headphones._

 

This is not to thread hi-jack, because I can only answer half the question. I have the DAC Super Pro DAC707 USB and it is comparable to an iBasso D1 DAC (which is good), but I haven't heard the HotUSB1 to compare yet. I thought about getting a HotUSB1 for my iMac, but decided I'll probably get the Blue Circle Thingee next instead. 

 I did notice with my 119db/mw IEM that the Super Pro sends more hiss to my amp than the D1 or other DACs (except the Travagans Green also hisses). Plus, optical input is still better sounding than USB with these. And I should add that I prefer the Headroom Micro DAC USB over the Super Pro or D1, as the Micro DAC USB DAC's sound quality is very close to the optical DAC according to my ears. 

 But, for the price the Super Pro is a good sounding DAC that is very versatile due to having optical and coax inputs in addition to the USB. I bought it to use with my Apple TV, but it turned out the Apple TV DAC is already quite good, so I use the Super Pro in my basement rig now.


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## ggeeoo

Thanks for the info HeadphoneAddict. Nevertheless, I think I'm gonna get the HotUSB1 for now, and buy a more expensive DAC in the future.


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## chaudi

I did some research. I found the chip used in the hotusb1 costs about $6, and is 16 bit not 24 bit. I wonder why would a multi-million dollar company like creative labs not just use these $6 chips in there sound cards instead of all this fance xfi-mod DAC processing technology?


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## Citizen86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chaudi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did some research. I found the chip used in the hotusb1 costs about $6, and is 16 bit not 24 bit. I wonder why would a multi-million dollar company like creative labs not just use these $6 chips in there sound cards instead of all this fance xfi-mod DAC processing technology?_

 

Yeah... for one, it's not advertised as 24-bit. 2nd, Creative has their fancy xfi stuff for 1) marketing, gotta pay for that. 2) Gaming, a simple DAC isn't going to do EAX or other game-related sound modifying. The Hotusb and the x-fi are directed toward completely different markets. That, and the gamers usually don't know how much they should be paying for good-quality sound


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## chaudi

Here's an article on sound cards and here one on x-fi. Doesn't mention anything about your gaming theory i'm afraid.


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## Citizen86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chaudi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's an article on sound cards and here one on x-fi. Doesn't mention anything about your gaming theory i'm afraid._

 

That's nice... what exactly are you looking for then? What type of people do you think buy Creative cards? Not people serious about music creation, even if the X-Fi has audio creation settings. Not people who care about audio quality, they will use onboard audio. Not people who want GOOD audio quality, since there are better and cheaper choices out there if you are willing to do some research. Creative is ALL about gaming, and if you bought it NOT for gaming, you probably bought it at Best Buy because the salesman told you to. I'm not saying that these are bad cards, I owned an Audigy 2 ZS for years and an X-Fi Xtremegamer for a while (Is that not enough proof that it is a gaming sound card??)

 And looking at your article, this is what it says in the conclusion (since it is a 3 year old article written before the X-Fi was even out):

  Quote:


 The question for X-Fi is the same question facing any ambitious run-time platform: What's your killer app? Frequency-domain effects in Creative's 24-bit APA processing could be the ticket, or the tremendous improvements in processing horsepower for gaming audio may also pique gamers' interest.


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## Citizen86

Also, please take a look at the Creative website, go to the X-Fi page and tell me what you think they are gearing these sound cards towards. Here, I'll even help you, this is what they are marketing their newest card as, the X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty (Fatal1ty happening to be the handle of some professional gamer):

  Quote:


 Maximum audio performance and connectivity for Pro Gamers

Realistic EAX® 5.0 sound effects that pull you into the game
Accurate 3D positional audio - even with normal headphones
Accelerated audio for unbeatable game performance
Clearer voice chats for better voice communication
Works with PCI Express equipped PCs
 Chosen by professional gamers, the PCI Express Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series sound card delivers the ultimate PC gaming audio experience. You'll hear realistic EAX® 5 sound effects and 3D positional audio so accurate you can locate opponents by mere sound - even over normal headphones. Plus, get unbeatable performance in your games with hardware accelerated audio and X-RAM. 
 

Anyways, this has gotten off-topic... but you see why Creative doesn't use a $6 chip, even if it DOES sound good.... they couldn't sell their stuff if people knew that... plus all the added fluff like what is mentioned above.


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## donunus

has anyone heard the usb dac preamp? any comments on this? USB DAC PREAMPLIFIER [USB DAC PREAMPLIFIER] - $100.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce


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## kazaam

I'm split on grabbing the HotUSB1. I plan to pass it through to my other amplifier, but will having to use the 1/8" as the output degrade the sound rather than having the typical RCA/optical outs found on DACs?


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## hotaudio40

It is my opinion that going through the 1/8 inch jack WILL degrade the sound because the 1/8 inch cables are just not as good as good quality RCA cables are. 

 Having said that I make units with RCA outs and also with both RCA and headphone outs.

USB DAC STEREO PREAMPLIFIER / PREAMP w HEADPHONE OUTPUT - eBay (item 280251146046 end time Aug-05-08 07:52:31 PDT)

The 'DAC DESTROYER' USB HEADPHONE AMP / AMPLIFIER - eBay (item 280251819482 end time Aug-30-08 08:49:25 PDT)

USB DAC HIGH-PERFORMANCE STEREO PREAMPLIFIER / PREAMP - eBay (item 260270761097 end time Aug-10-08 18:57:47 PDT)

 and many more at my online store

HotAudio.Com, Hand Crafted Audio Perfection.

 The choices are endless


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## DARKHAVEN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is my opinion that going through the 1/8 inch jack WILL degrade the sound because the 1/8 inch cables are just not as good as good quality RCA cables are._

 

I'm a bit confused by that, considering Headroom's respected Micro DAC only has a 1/8" out and NOT RCA.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Hotaudio is talking a about mini-rca cables not being as good, or good ones harder to find than rca-rca, not a problem with the jack.

 However, ALOAudio, Qables sell very nice quality ones, and several head-fiers can build an affordable mini-rca in silver plated copper or silver or cryo'd copper. I have several of these cables from users like barqy, highflyin9, fatman711, Steven Kelby, Warrier05.


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## hotaudio40

Exactly


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## bearmann

Hi,
 I'm wondering what's inside the USB PreAmp... which Receiver, DAC and OpAmp as output stage does it use?!

 And why do you use plastic cases? At least at Europe we need proper shielding at some places. =/

 Thanks a lot and best regards,
 bearmann


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## hotaudio40

I use plastic because I love the way it looks and I love to drill it. It's easier to work with then metal and all my products are hand made and assembled by me. No machines are used to build my DAC / Headphone Amps. They are like audio works of art and I take great pride and joy in making them for others.

 As far as what's inside the little black boxes. Well that changes from time to time as I find better components to use and sometimes I make small changes to "tweak" the sound according to who is buying it and for what purpose.

 I like metal cases too, and I will / did make metal DACs a while back, but didn't like to work with metal as much as I like working with plastic. Plus I love the way the Black boxes look 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




HotAudio.Com, Hand Crafted Audio Perfection.


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## alwayshungry

I bought both a hotUSB1 and a usb dac a few months ago from David (hotaudio40). I had a number of questions and he always replied very promptly. I am using foobar2000 with asio4all.

 I use the USB dac as a DAC for my ONIX SP3 and it sounds great, however, it's my first DAC and have nothing to compare it to. Also it's hard to say what each component (DAC/tube amp/speakers) contributes to the overall sound as I don't own multiple sets of each component type I can swap in and out. I love the sound though.

 I bought the hotUSB1 and it replaced my onboard soundcard on my work computer. I was using Senn H280 Pros (before they broke) and the difference was significant. Compared to my onboard sound card, the hotusb was very very quiet and after a few days of burn in I noticed a deeper low end. The sound in general is neutral, clean and tight. I am currently using Beyer DT770/80s and the hotUSB1 has no problem driving them.

 I recently purchased a Mister X XP home amp and am currently using the hotUSB1 as a USB DAC (unfortunately using an 3.5mm->RCA connection). I will post some follow up impressions sometime with and without using the hotUSB as a DAC.


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## ahdui

Is there any impressions or comparison with other amps against the hotaudio amp?


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## dandi

Can anyone tell me why I am getting static in one channel of my headphones when I run through the USB DAC but it's not there when I come directly out of my laptop (Dell Inspiron 5100)

 Thanks for any help


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## dandi

Had nothing to do with the DAC
 I just focused my attention there and lost the bigger picture. It was a bad cable connection on my headphones!!

 Back to enjoying the music and a truly great product from HotAudio.


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## Kane Williams

This looks a lot like the HagUsb. Can anyone confirm if it is the same inside, but without the SPDIF out?

 I have the Hag and think it sounds good. So for those who don't need the SPDIF I think it's a real bargain.

 BTW, please check out the Musiland Lilo III. Great price and a lot of features!

 Cheers


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## bearmann

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kane Williams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This looks a lot like the HagUsb. Can anyone confirm if it is the same inside, but without the SPDIF out?

 I have the Hag and think it sounds good. So for those who don't need the SPDIF I think it's a real bargain.

 BTW, please check out the Musiland Lilo III. Great price and a lot of features!

 Cheers_

 

hotaudio40 is a professional DIY'er... it is in no way a HagUSB derivative.


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## blizzam

hi! new member here.

 here is what i run:

 laptop > USB DAC (by dave, with 3.5 mm output and RCA output) > sennheiser hd 570's or my powered studio monitors (el cheapo krk rp5's & rp10s)

 i used to use my speakers more, but have increasingly been switching to the headphones because it sounds so much better, and i dont have to worry about disturbing roomates/neighbors. 

 the usb dac from dave DRAMATICALLY improved the sound over my crapty dell sound card output. even complete non-audio friends could tell a huge difference right away (this over my monitors). 

 once in a while i wish it had a little more clean juice for higher volumes, and i was wondering if i should upgrade to another of daves products that is battery powered, and/or has a volume control, or if i should add a solid state headphone amp after the usb dac. however, my concern is that if i add an in-line amplifier after the dac that my sound quality may slightly degrade, as i am also a firm believer in minimalism for purity.

 any replies, especially from dave, would be appreciated!

 thanks, and hello to all!


----------



## blizzam

ooh those sound like just what im looking for!

 to get this straight though, the only difference is the volume knob? is that correct? meaning the alps volume knob doesnt degrade the sound and the other one may?


----------



## hotaudio40

Well neither of the units degrade the sound quality. In fact they both increase it. That's because the TPA6120a2 chip is so good at doing what it does 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 They both use Alps volume controls, only one is a normal carbon wiper based unit and the other is a "32 step rotary encoder". 

 The Rotary Encoder has to go through a digital chip to decode it and turn its signals into a useful resistance.
 Basically turning it into a potentiometer that uses transistors instead of carbon to control the volume.

 There is a noticeable difference in the sound quality... But you have to listen pretty hard to hear it. The digital version has more detail. It is a very slight amount of detail, but still it is undeniably there.

 Thanks for the interest!


 Oh yes, and the digital version also has left - right balance control. It is just a feature of the digital decoder chip and the encoder pot just so happens to have a mode selector built in. You just push the volume control in to get to the balance mode, and push it again to get back to the volume mode. And when you turn the digital unit off, it resets itself, putting the volume back around 1/2 volume and the balance back at center. It is quite nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 hotaudio40


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## vagarach

Hi hotaudio40, in the HotUSB1, does the PCM2705 take care of all the USB, DAC and amp duties or is there a separate amp stage? I noticed in honglong's review on his .mac site that he mentions that only one chip is used.

 Thanks!


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, that is correct, only one chip is used. I have tried many DACs and found that the PCM2705 did a better job all by itself of running headphones then the NON-BUFFERED chips like the PCM2702. 

 This is not to say that a non-buffered chip with a buffer chip like say a TPA6120a2 can't out-perform a PCM2705, but as far as I can tell, no other combinations I've tried will work better then the PCM2705 all by itself.

 I will eventually incorporate the PCM2705 and TPA6120 together, but at the moment I'm torn.

 Sometimes I listen to the combination together and sometimes I prefer the sound of the 2705 all by itself. So I leave the two stages (DAC-BUFFER) separate for now.

 In honglongs case, he actually has one of my first units which used a PCM2704 or PCM2707 ( I can't remember...). Very nice sweet sounding chip/s, very accurate, but not quite as much PUNCH as the 2705s. So now I exclusively use the PCM2705s in all my DACs.

 But you have to remember too, that just because I use the same chip in all of my DAC models does NOT mean they all sound the same. The components surrounding the 2705 make a huge difference too. Probably as much as the chip itself does.

 That's why I have a few models.

 They all sound very similar, and only a trained ear could hear the differences. But there are differences and thus the price differences between the models.

 I must also note here too that there are a few pairs of headphones that are VERY HARD to drive.

 If you have headphones like that, then you probably need a 12 Volt buffer stage because these particular headphones seem to require lots of drive to drive them.

 The way you can tell if your headphones are difficult to drive is quite simple actually.

 Plug your headphones into a normal MP3 player or computer sound card, and if you can get a satisfactory level of volume out of them, then they will be fine with all of my DACs.

 If you add one of my buffers (HEADPHONE AMPS - ie. TPA6120a2 models) then you will get about double to three times the volume, which in many cases is WAY TOO LOUD. In fact sometimes the drivers in my headphones move so much that I can actually feel my headphones lifting away from my ears. That can't be good for my hearing....

 hotaudio40


----------



## lumumba

so, anyone's been using it? it is currently only 85$ compared to regular 130$. i'd like to get a good sounding and cheap USB DAC to connect my desktop computer to my amp, so originally was interested in the one with only 2 RCAs. but since there's this one - which i could also use as a soundcard for my laptop occasionally with it's headphone out - are these too items comparable? or would anyone suggest something else?

 tia


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, they are very comparable, in fact other then the USB cable being soldered in, they are the same components used inside.

 hotaudio40


----------



## vagarach

Right, so my hotusb1 arrived, and I feel compelled to dispel (ehehe) my own apprehensions. 

 It costs exactly the same as my creative sb live external, which in spite of everyone hating on creative, sounds very good. Really it does, quite the upgrade from onboard sound. So spending the same amount could possibly have meant a sidegrade, and that was not what I wanted. 

 So, definitely, the hotusb1 is quite an upgrade from my sb live, even with just an hour or so on it. The upgrade in detail is very evident, some passages sound completely different, in one song I found out that what I thought was one single sustained note is in fact many! Thievery Corporation's La Monde now has the deep, heavy bass line that it does when played on speakers. Impact is also much more evident, fast transitions from soft to loud actually sound like they should.

 I'm not sure if this kind of quality is available anywhere else given the price, and if this is the kind of sound that comes from simple, lean designs, then I have new-found faith in DIY design. It is astounding that a readily available chip like the PCM2705 can do such an amazing job. 

 Honglong told me "you'll love it". Just the right words I think.

 (oh, and I'm using HD555's)


----------



## Majinwar

Anyone have experience with the DAC Destroyer? I'm really interested in it...

DAC DESTROYER [DAC DESTROYER WITH PREAMP OUTS] - $120.00 : HotAudio.Com, Hand Crafted Audio Perfection.

 I'd like to know more about it, so if anyone could fill me in, I would appreciate it!

*EDIT:* Also how does it differ from the "USB DAC Preamplifier with Gold RCAs and 3.5mm Headphone Output"?

http://www.hotaudio.com/zen-cart/ind...roducts_id=186

*Newest EDIT:* Nevermind. Dave answered my questions.


----------



## sdcloud69

i have a HOTUSB1 and have had it for a couple months, great on my alessandro's but was wondering if i could plug my speakers into it? they're 2.1s, jbl creature IIs, just wanna make sure so like they don't blow up or nothing lol, onboard sucks.


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes you can, you can plug the HOTUSB1 into any powered speakers, and the creature IIs are powered speakers.

 Just use a 3.5mm stereo male to 3.5mm stereo male audio cable and plug one end into the HOTUSB1 and the other end of the cable into the green connector of the sub-woofer of the creature IIs.

 I got that from the creature II online manual 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It won't blow up the HOTUSB1 as the creature IIs are powered speakers.

 But NEVER plug the HOTUSB1 into speakers directly. 
 This would void any warranty!!!!

 Owners manual for Creature II:
http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Ow...%20Rev%20A.pdf

 hotaudio40


----------



## misterDX

Wow, just wow

 i am the guy who created this thread a year ago, and waited for his product's impressions for days before i finally gave up after bumping this thread a few times. I kinda have a feeling about this hotaudio40 fellow having lots of passion on building amps from reading his ebay pages of really simple home-made amps, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THIS THREAD JUMPED TO 9 PAGES and the dude also now sells USB DACs(i was just checking my history and thought it was wierd a thread i created can last to 9 pages and growing)???

 man, congratulations, you have gone far


----------



## vagarach

It's really good stuff! If you were to build a simple dac like the Bantam dac, just buying a multimeter, soldering iron, components, etc would be way more than the hotusb1.

 That Millett starving student looks like a good project for a first time DIY though, I saw a particularly well done example in the build thread with fan-shaped heatsinks!


----------



## Gberg

mine just came in today! I can't wait to try it out


----------



## Gberg

hmm I'm really new to this.. but it seems it won't work when I try to play songs through itunes, but with windows media player it plays properly...


----------



## RickB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm I'm really new to this.. but it seems it won't work when I try to play songs through itunes, but with windows media player it plays properly..._

 

Hmm... I don't have iTunes installed anymore, but I think there's a setting to choose "External Sound Card". Maybe look under "Preferences".


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, there is a setting in itunes, somewhere in itunes, I can't remember where. You have to select "usb sound card" or something like that.
 I use winamp personally. I just think it sounds better....

 hotaudio40


----------



## RickB

Hi Dave,

 Just wanted to give you a belated thank you for the excellent buying experience I had getting one of your HOTUSB1 DACs.

 From Canada to Florida the shipping only took 3 days flat.

 For the last day and a half I've been enjoying hearing the sound quality bloom and open up on this little black box. At this point it easily surpasses the quality of my former iPod + portable headphone amp.

 I think it was money well spent. Cheers!


----------



## Gberg

fixed the itunes thingy! I think it just needed a proper reboot.
 silly me!

 P.S. Thanks for the excellent and fast shipment!!


----------



## vagarach

Oh oh, hotaudio, you might consider asking the mods to give you 'member of the trade' status. Might help brand image?


----------



## graphis_7

hotaudio40

 what headphones do you use for your headphone amps?
 i want to get an idea what kinds of headphone amp combination will be of great synergy


----------



## chinesekiwi

mmm..interesting indeed. Looks like we have a new giant killer on the block as Head-Direct were when they emerged in the IEM market. What I would love is some comparisons vs other portable amps/DACs, portable hi-fi'ers gogo!

 Anyway, someone give Jude a nudge and get him to give hotaudio 'Member of the Trade' status.


----------



## hotaudio40

"Member of the Trade" status...

 Oooo, that sounds kinda cool....

 Exactly what trade are we talking about... lol, just kidding.

 That would be great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I get lots of support from this forum, and am indebted to you guys for sure, and now "Member of the Trade" status...

 I would also like to point out here, if I may, that I also make headphone amps...

 I don't just make the HOTUSB1....

 I even have a new "buffered" series of DAC coming out very soon.

 I've built 3 new versions.

 A HOTUSB1 with a buffer capable of 150mW into 32ohms.

 A PCM2702 model with a buffer, which it needs as 2702s can't drive headphones directly. ( I just finished it last night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) Still running AB tests on it against the others...

 And a PCM2906 model with buffer and get this, it has a line input ADC !

 My first Analogue to Digital USB recording device !!!

 I am very exited about this model as now I can record directly to the computer via USB.

 It ONLY will accept Line Level for recording so far, as I haven't come up with a good mike amplifier yet...

 But for recording line level audio, it does a very nice job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not sure what to call my newest models either...

 Any suggestions ?????

 I usually choose my own names, but I would love to hear some input into names for my new DACs....

 The names should have something to do with the properties of the DAC as well as my company name "HOTAUDIO.COM"

 Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!

 Hotaudio40


----------



## RickB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for what headphone amps work. 
 I've heard the SR60s are a "perfect match" for my DACs. I have also heard allot of good things about HD595s and many others.

 But what I can tell you my DACs have trouble driving AKG701s.

 I repeat, DO NOT BUY MY DAC if you are using AKG701s.

 They are VERY HARD to drive from the feedback I receive._

 

Actually, they CAN still use the DAC to feed an amp capable of driving the K701s. I think I've read of at least one person using your dac with a big amp.


----------



## billybob_jcv

I have a suggestion for hotaudio. I think it would be really helpful if there was a clear comparison of the various products being offered. It's really not clear to me what features come on each product. Some have attached cables, some have RCA jacks, some have a 1/4" jack, etc. I guess it should be a good sign that the web site is less than stellar - that usually means the owner is a HW-geek not an html-geek, and that's good for the products, right?


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

Let's say I buy one of the models that use a 9V battery and an On/Off switch. If the switch is ON, but no headphones or speakers are connected, will the battery run down? What if headphones are connected but no sound is being played?

 If I must remember each time to turn the switch to OFF, I'd feel more comfortable if there were an LED to remind me when it's ON.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

On the Mark IV, there's no battery that one might inadvertently allow to drain. 

 While your attention to engineering is second to none, I hope to one day see the same regard for your customers' human factors. As a technical writer, I was floored by your response to the forum member's request for a comparison table. You basically told him, "If you read each page, you can figure out how my products differ." In the usability world, the value of comparison tables has been long-settled, and so definitively that its value is beyond debate and its omission egregious. 

 Ditto for a power LED: It's not as simple as a choice between "aesthetics vs. sound purity"; that's a false dichotomy. The power LED has been proven to be an almost indispensible visual aid to remind the user that his battery is being drained.


----------



## vagarach

As I'm sure you know, engineers (and no offense is meant here) usually do miss out on user empathy, it comes with the territory really. 

 What hotaudio suggested the user do makes sense, no? Gather the information in your head and make your own comparison chart. I do it all the time, even though I'm not an engineer, when you're looking up things in the tech world the number of websites that 'get it right' are few. I remember looking up lenses for my Nikon DSLR, and there was just one website that had the type of charting that I needed. The rest of the acronyms and numbers had to be done the manual way!

 I suppose Paul is right though, since hotaudio is getting bigger all these things will become much more important. Site design, usability, charts, and so on. But these things also add cost and _un_minimalism.


----------



## kag

I'm curious how the HOTUSB1 would compare to the HeadRoom Total BitHead. I know the HeadRoom costs much more, but I can buy them used for a few bucks more than the HOTUSB1.


----------



## bnsbhat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Member of the Trade" status...

 Oooo, that sounds kinda cool....

 Exactly what trade are we talking about... lol, just kidding.

 That would be great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I get lots of support from this forum, and am indebted to you guys for sure, and now "Member of the Trade" status...

 I would also like to point out here, if I may, that I also make headphone amps...

 I don't just make the HOTUSB1....

 I even have a new "buffered" series of DAC coming out very soon.

 I've built 3 new versions.

 A HOTUSB1 with a buffer capable of 150mW into 32ohms.

 A PCM2702 model with a buffer, which it needs as 2702s can't drive headphones directly. ( I just finished it last night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) Still running AB tests on it against the others...

 And a PCM2906 model with buffer and get this, it has a line input ADC !

 My first Analogue to Digital USB recording device !!!

 I am very exited about this model as now I can record directly to the computer via USB.

 It ONLY will accept Line Level for recording so far, as I haven't come up with a good mike amplifier yet...

 But for recording line level audio, it does a very nice job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not sure what to call my newest models either...

 Any suggestions ?????

 I usually choose my own names, but I would love to hear some input into names for my new DACs....

 The names should have something to do with the properties of the DAC as well as my company name "HOTAUDIO.COM"

 Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!

 Hotaudio40_

 

Hi,

 Congratulation on your succesful venture!

 I am thinking of buying one of your products to work as sound source between my PC and T-amp. Frankly I do not need headphone features. Which one would you suggest forme.

 Thanks

 S. Bhat


----------



## hotaudio40

I can't answer that question directly, as it would be a breach of this forums policy.

 Direct promotion of products by a seller is strictly prohibited!!!

 And I can see why they have this policy. 

 It is much better if others promote my products and not me as I am slightly biased... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To keep everything real, it does make sense that seller should not be able to promote their products.

 But you can email me directly at hotaudio40@hotmail.com if you have any questions!


----------



## billybob_jcv

Dave (hotaudio.com) was very good to me when I ran into a problem with my Paypal account after purchasing one of his amps. He was patient and it all worked itself out. With that said, I challenge anyone to read through the hotaudio.com web site and understand ALL the differences between the products he sells. You can't just go by the specs since several of the products use EXACTLY the same specs even though they are much different prices. You also have to look at the pictures and carefully read the text descriptions. Even after reading them several times, I was still confused - and I'm willing to admit it.

 I *have* an engineering degree (though not EE) and I have worked with engineers of many disciplines for well over 20 years - therefore I feel I am able to say, with all due respect to Dave & his fine products, that his web site sucks. It's a typical site from a down-in-the-weeds HW guy - I have no doubt HE understands it perfectly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone who has been around these forums for several years has seen bright guys selling good products come and go. I could list 10 right off the top of my head. One of the things I have noticed is that they tend to fall into 2 camps - guys who sell the same product for a long time (Gary and his PA2V2 comes to mind immediately) or they pop-out new products fairly rapidly (like Dave at hotaudio or maybe Norm from the original go-vibe). I hope that hotaudio doesn't go down the path of far too many other guys that make good products, become popular, and then fight a losing battle between wanting to be an R&D engineer vs being a producer, fulfilling orders and doing customer service. What's the number 1 complaint we see in these forums for dealing with many respected vendors? They often don't communicate very well with their customers & prospective customers. Dave is excellent at answering his email - that's one of the things that impressed me and made me pull the trigger and purchase from him. But, if he was suddenly deluged with orders for all of the different amps he currently has listed on his site - would he still be as responsive? 

 I think we're really all trying to help - I know that if I had a marketable skill, I might be giving it a go myself, and I hope that I would take feedback for what it is - an attempt by a happy customer to make my business better.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vagarach* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I'm sure you know, engineers (and no offense is meant here) usually do miss out on user empathy, it comes with the territory really. 

 What hotaudio suggested the user do makes sense, no? Gather the information in your head and make your own comparison chart. I do it all the time, even though I'm not an engineer, when you're looking up things in the tech world the number of websites that 'get it right' are few. I remember looking up lenses for my Nikon DSLR, and there was just one website that had the type of charting that I needed. The rest of the acronyms and numbers had to be done the manual way!

 I suppose Paul is right though, since hotaudio is getting bigger all these things will become much more important. Site design, usability, charts, and so on. But these things also add cost and unminimalism._


----------



## kag

Ordered a HotUSB1 this weekend!


----------



## hotaudio40

Admittedly my website isn't very well organized...

 And yes, If I was "suddenly deluged with orders" I definitely wouldn't be as responsive with my emails....

 But I do break up my day, building amps, testing amps, designing amps, and then to relax, answering emails 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And not necessarily in that order.

 I answer emails first, then build, test and ship orders. Then when I have nothing else to do I do R&D and order new chips and build new units.

 I actually have 4 more units still not even listed.... I don't want to confuse anyone.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I will most likely be streamlining my product list soon. Perhaps by DAC IC number. Not sure yet how I'm going to do it...

 There are so many chips out there, and I want to try them all. I can't help myself. It is like an addiction. 

 More, more, more, I want to try more....

 Website design is boring. Making amps is fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps I will purchase a professional website someday. But then I would loose my creative freedom as those sites are very difficult to customize.

 I am not too big a believer in MOST specifications either. I only put them up as I've always seen that in magazines and such.

 But in reality, as far as listening goes, most specs mean nothing at all....

 Even the cost of ICs is not a relative indicator of sound quality. I mean it CAN be, but it is not always the case...

 I do appreciate the feedback though. Even when it hurts my ego...

 Some day I'll get around to streamlining the web-pages, but for now, I'm R&D all the way !!!!

 I really do love listening to all the new chips.

 Some of them blow my mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hotaudio40


----------



## tescosamoa

Picked up the Dac Destroyer. Hopefully it arrives before the weekend so I can play around with it.


----------



## lmswjm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *billybob_jcv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ With that said, I challenge anyone to read through the hotaudio.com web site and understand ALL the differences between the products he sells. 
_

 

No disrespect billybob_jcv, I just wanted to voice another view of Dave's site:
 I just purchased a HotUSB1 and a Pocket High-Fidelity Headphone Amplifier (OPA2134). I appreciated all of the different choices available. The more the better to tailor to specific needs/applications. You do have to compare the website with his ebay store to explore all possibilities. Thanks Dave, can't wait to hear your stuff.


----------



## kag

I received my HotUSB1 yesterday, still burning it in. My Grado SR225 didn't improve as much as I hoped (compared to my Sony portable CD player), but the main goal was to stop using my crappy SBLive when I'm listening on my computer.

 On the other hand, it's day and night with my mom's Sennheiser HD555!

 I'm very happy with my purchase.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

Hotaudio,
 Wherever the specs don't mention a battery, does that mean that no battery is used? I'm thinking of the MarkIV, but perhaps there are others.


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, the specs don't mention a battery...

 But they do say this:

 "Powered Directly from your PCs, Laptop, or MACs USB Port"

 So your answer would be it does not use batteries.

 I always put down in the descriptions if the units use batteries.

 If they don't I don't mention batteries at all.

 If the units are USB powered, then I will mention USB powered or something along those lines.

 hotaudio40


----------



## lon420

I'll probably get a Mark IV by the end of this week


----------



## powerslave

Question about this thread, now that the amp thread has been split into 2 threads, do you guys think this thread should be moved to the portable amp thread? These are compact amps, would this thread be better served there?


----------



## NilsenNorway

I have never used paypal, but this little dac sounds like something my Senn HD555's would like better than the laptop soundcard. 

 I'll think about if for a few more days, but im tempted to choose this over the iBasso D3 as it is soooo much cheaper


----------



## powerslave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NilsenNorway* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have never used paypal, but this little dac sounds like something my Senn HD555's would like better than the laptop soundcard. 

 I'll think about if for a few more days, but im tempted to choose this over the iBasso D3 as it is soooo much cheaper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've got the hotaudio1 usb dac before it was given that name and there was no doubt the sound coming out easily eclipsed the sound i had coming out of my creative sb soundcard. As for comparisons to other dac/amps, i think the price for performance here is outstanding.


----------



## mambo5

has anyone tried the TPA6120a2 Headphone Amp yet?
 It looks like it would be good considering it being made by the maker of the hotusb1 and it price of $80.

 Hmm, either i get the hotusb1 as my first DAC or the TPA6120a2 as my first headphone amp.

 Which one should i get first? A DAC or a headphone amp.


----------



## hotaudio40

Get a DAC first...


----------



## mambo5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get a DAC first..._

 

Could you use both a DAC and headphone amp together also? Like at the same time? Could i use the DAC seperately without a headphone amp?


----------



## powerslave

Mambo, you can get the headphone amp but you would need to have a good source with a dac already. The hotusb1 is a dac/amp combo and does all the work. Whereas the headphone amp, you need either a mini to mini from an ipod or other mp3 player or you get rca to mini to feed it from a cd player. You can also use the dac and amp combo together as well.

 I think the most appropriate question for you is what will your source be? Computer? Cd? Ipod or other mp3 player?


----------



## mambo5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powerslave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mambo, you can get the headphone amp but you would need to have a good source with a dac already. The hotusb1 is a dac/amp combo and does all the work. Whereas the headphone amp, you need either a mini to mini from an ipod or other mp3 player or you get rca to mini to feed it from a cd player. You can also use the dac and amp combo together as well.

 I think the most appropriate question for you is what will your source be? Computer? Cd? Ipod or other mp3 player?_

 

Thanks for the reply.

 I will be using an mp3 player(ipod classic and clip) mostly and a computer.

 Does an ipod have a dac already?


----------



## vagarach

A DAC is a digital-to-analog converter. All mp3 players, sound cards, cd players, etc have one. Not all, however, are high quality.

 The ipod can only output through its headphone out or do line out from the dock, BUT before this the sound passes through the ipod's DAC. (Ignore the '3rd' option of Wadia iTransport---not applicable here, too expensive)

 The main problem here is that hot audio builds amplifiers, DACs with line out (no amplifier stage), and DACs with an amplifier stage. 

 The hotusb1 has an amplifier stage courtesy of the all-in-one PCM2705 chip that it uses. 

 (I have tried for 10 minutes finding a succinct way of explaining what to do, but it just gets complicated with the myriad ways you could use a lineout DAC, a DAC+amp, or an amp)

 1. Headphones too soft, clipping? Get a plain amp.

 2. Want better sound out your computer, and don't already have an amp you like to use? Get a DAC+amp. HOTUSB1, HOTAUDIO Mark4.

 3. Want better sound out your computer, but have an amp you like? HOTAUDIO DAC Destroyer (this appears to have both unamp'd and amp'd outputs). It is also top of the line at HOTAUDIO.

 I have realised what Paul was saying. Sorry if I jumped the gun. Hotaudio, you need some sort of hierarchy to organize the many models. Several options land on the same page!! (Heaven directs to MKIV).

 Hope that helps. It took like 15 minutes


----------



## powerslave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vagarach* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A DAC is a digital-to-analog converter. All mp3 players, sound cards, cd players, etc have one. Not all, however, are high quality.

 The ipod can only output through its headphone out or do line out from the dock, BUT before this the sound passes through the ipod's DAC. (Ignore the '3rd' option of Wadia iTransport---not applicable here)

 The main problem here is that hot audio builds amplifiers, DACs with line out (no amplifier stage), and DACs with an amplifier stage. 

 The hotusb1 has an amplifier stage courtesy of the all-in-one PCM2705 chip that it uses. 

 (I have tried for 10 minutes finding a succinct way of explaining what to do, but it just gets complicated with the myriad ways you could use a lineout DAC, a DAC+amp, or an amp)

 1. Headphones too soft, clipping? Get a plain amp.

 2. Want better sound out your computer, and don't already have an amp you like to use? Get a DAC+amp. HOTUSB1, HOTAUDIO Mark4.

 3. Want better sound out your computer, but have an amp you like? HOTAUDIO DAC Destroyer (this appears to have both unamp'd and amp'd outputs). It is also top of the line at HOTAUDIO.

 I have realised what Paul was saying. Sorry if I jumped the gun. Hotaudio, you need some sort of hierarchy to organize the many models. Several options land on the same page!! (Heaven directs to MKIV).

 Hope that helps. It took like 15 minutes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Based on the last email convo i had with dave, i think the mkIV has taken the top spot now over the dac destroyer. He sort of merged the best concepts from his other usb dac's to creat the mkIV.


----------



## powerslave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mambo5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply.

 I will be using an mp3 player(ipod classic and clip) mostly and a computer.

 Does an ipod have a dac already?_

 

Yes, the ipod does have a dac. You would need an ipod line out cable to connect to headphone amp. 

 As for your computer, that would need a usb cable to go to a dac/amp, i.e. hotusb1 or mkIV.

 Since you would be using the ipod more, then either the upgradeable amp with opa2134 or the TPA6120a2 would work well for you. I have the opa2134 one and love it. He's been working with mostly the TPA of late so I would suggest you email hotaudio40 to get his thoughts. He is very responsive via email and will be a great service.


----------



## mambo5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powerslave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the ipod does have a dac. You would need an ipod line out cable to connect to headphone amp. 

 As for your computer, that would need a usb cable to go to a dac/amp, i.e. hotusb1 or mkIV.

 Since you would be using the ipod more, then either the upgradeable amp with opa2134 or the TPA6120a2 would work well for you. I have the opa2134 one and love it. He's been working with mostly the TPA of late so I would suggest you email hotaudio40 to get his thoughts. He is very responsive via email and will be a great service._

 

Thank you


----------



## nowickia

Anyone have experience with running one of hotaudio's amps with a set of Denon AH-D2000. I think they're 25 ohms and sound like it might be a harder load to power than many headphones of that price range. Is the Hotaudio Mark IV a good match for them or is there a better suited DAC+AMP for around that price? Also, is the Mark IV a large jump from the HOTUSB1? The reason for choosing the Mark IV over the HOTUSB1 is I'm guessing it will drive more demanding headphones. Good work on your quality DIY from all the great feedback I read.


----------



## hotaudio40

The HOTUSB1 can drive down to 16 ohm loads according to the specifications, but maximum power is only 12mW.

 The Mark IV, because it has a buffer stage, can drive 150mW into 16 ohm headphones. 

 So a pretty big difference in power.

 Whether or not you need that much power totally depends on how efficient your headphones are and how loud you like to listen to your music.

 hotaudio40


----------



## nowickia

Good to know...I think I remember coming across that but it's nice to have that confirmed. In my opinion, whether it is needed or not, I like to have it available (the extra power that is). Expect an order in the near future 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I just need to confirm what headphones I want.


----------



## nowickia

I changed my mind and decided not to go with the Denon cans. Instead, I'm looking between the Beyerdynamic model DT880 and DT990 (both 2005 models and 250ohms). Based on that and their power rating (acc. to IEC 60268-7) of 100mW, will the Mark IV suffice? Also, what can you tell me about the differences between the Mark IV's PCM2705 chip with output buffer and the TPA6120A2 only as far as the amp is concerned? Obviously I know one is a DAC and one is not, but is there a substantial difference between the two units and their amp quality and capability? Even better yet, will one of them do a substantially better job with Beyer's such as the ones I have mentioned?

 Thanks!!


----------



## tescosamoa

I am driving DT990's with the Dac Destroyer aka Mark IV. I also drive them via a Littledot MKV and the Mark IV. It is sufficient to drive the DT990's. 

 I listen to Prog Rock, Metal, Alternative and classic rock. With a bit of electronic music mixed in.


----------



## nowickia

Is there a significant difference between the TPA6120a2 and the PCM2705 (with output buffer) in terms of just the amplification? I know one is a DAC and one is not, but I'm only concerned with the quality of amplification between the two.

 Thanks


----------



## hotaudio40

Well I think that nothing compares to the sound of the TPA6120, but if something "were" to compare to the sound of the TPA6120, it would be the buffer in the PCM2705 with output buffer.

 I don't use the TPA6120 in the PCM2705 models, but I use a very close relative... I believe it is very worthy of being used as a buffer for the already amazing sounding PCM2705.

 hotaudio40


----------



## sdcloud69

I'm looking for an amp to pair with my Squeezebox which i just ordered.

 hotaudio40s amps immediately came to mind since they're so cheap and given the current $AUD being so poor i really value bang for buck right now.

 Which would the most suitable for use with a Squeezebox Classic and Alessandro MS-1s?

 Thanks in advance


----------



## powerslave

Since the squeezbox has a dac already, you'll need just a headphone amp so one of the TPA6120A2 amps should be fine. You'll need an RCA to mini to connect the 2. Send dave an email and he'll respond to any other queries you have as well.


----------



## solar_ythm

hi
 i used to own a cmoy to amp senn hd 580, but i was disappointed by its minimal changes
 will this dac drives 580 well?
 thx


----------



## sdcloud69

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powerslave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since the squeezbox has a dac already, you'll need just a headphone amp so one of the TPA6120A2 amps should be fine. You'll need an RCA to mini to connect the 2. Send dave an email and he'll respond to any other queries you have as well._

 

sweet thanks

 will do


----------



## hotaudio40

The MARK IV will drive the HD 580s.

 hotaudio40


----------



## LaserWolf

would the Hotusb1 be able to drive the Audio technica ath M-50's?


----------



## hotaudio40

The best way to answer that is if your M-50s can be heard through a normal PC sound card or MP3 player then YES the HOTUSB1 will be able to drive them quite nicely.

 hotaudio40


----------



## powerslave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaserWolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_would the Hotusb1 be able to drive the Audio technica ath M-50's?_

 

There's a review linked that said these headphones are easy to drive so i think you would be okay if you went with the cheaper hotusb1 over the mark 4.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/aud...review-386819/


----------



## hotaudio40

Hey I just want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!

 I've been listening to some Christmas music on shoutcast and finally am in the Christmas mood and I hope you all are too.

http://yp.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-station.pls?id=7035


----------



## RickB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey I just want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!

 I've been listening to some Christmas music on shoutcast and finally am in the Christmas mood and I hope you all are too.

http://yp.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-station.pls?id=7035





_

 

Merry Christmas, Dave!

 Thanks again for the fine DAC I bought from you.


----------



## LaserWolf

I just ordered the Hotusb1 and I must say that Dave provides the best customer service I have ever experienced, hands down. he worked with me in figuring out an Ebay issue and then once I ordered one from his online store he had it tested and shipped within an hour and a half. I can't wait till it comes in and I can experience for myself all the great things people have been saying.


----------



## NilsenNorway

Looking forward to your review LaserWolf. Im thinking about ordering one in the beginning of january.


----------



## ddoingwell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaserWolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered the Hotusb1 and I must say that Dave provides the best customer service I have ever experienced, hands down. he worked with me in figuring out an Ebay issue and then once I ordered one from his online store he had it tested and shipped within an hour and a half. I can't wait till it comes in and I can experience for myself all the great things people have been saying._

 


 I second the above opinion of HotAudio40 Customer Service. I have also just bought a product from Dave, the TPA6120A2 Based Headphone Amplifier with a 32 Step Digital Rotary Encoder Volume / Balance Control. I received a Second Chance Offer on an eBay auction and got the amp for much less than his asking price, a true sign of generosity. Several prompt emails (I'm in Australia, he's in Winnipeg Canada!) later he wrote that he'd gone out in -40C weather to post the package off and forwarded a CanadaPost lodgement number! 

 I too will be submitting my impressions of this product. This kind of service and active involvement is what the Head-fi experience is all about for me. As an aside, I got the same level of treatment when I bought my PA2V2 from Gary, another good Canuck pro-DIYer who contributes to our hobby. 

 These guys deserve our support and the more of us who buy from people like Dave and Gary, the better the products will become. We can be active in this process. More of life should be like this.


----------



## eukaryote:)

So what sounds better exactly? The HOTUSB1 or the MarkIV? My IEM's don't need much power to run them, so power issues go out the door. I am speaking on a purely sound based standpoint. 

 Also guys for who have used these, how would you rate them to say stock sound card?

 Thanks!

 edit:

http://www.ultimateears.com/_ultimat...cification.php

 those are the IEM's i use. Specs say 119dB per mW.

 Oh and forgot, i would like these also able to drive Beyer 880's reasonably well.


----------



## hotaudio40

Well the MARK IV is probably way too powerful for those IEMs.

 119dB is very efficient so the HOTUSB1 would handle them nicely.

 As far as how much power the Beyer 880s require, I really can't say as I've never tried them.


----------



## eukaryote:)

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the MARK IV is probably way too powerful for those IEMs.

 119dB is very efficient so the HOTUSB1 would handle them nicely.

 As far as how much power the Beyer 880s require, I really can't say as I've never tried them._

 

I can add an attenuator to push them up to 250 ohms from 29 ohms or so, so that should reduce their efficiency dramatically. 

 But on a purely sound based objective, which of those two do you think sound better?


----------



## hotaudio40

Adding a resistor would totally destroy the sound quality, but you could also turn down the volume 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My best USB DACS are the HOTAUDIO SUPREME, MARK IV, and HOTUSB1 in that order.

 PM me if you want to know more.


----------



## Wenglish

This very, very hungover Christmas morning I was surprised with a HotUSB1 from, of all people, my mother. Probably the result of a collaboration between her and my girl, but that's besides the point. 

 It's been burning in for a few hours now so I figured I'd give it a quick listen, just a song or two from Ephrat's No Ones Words. I only have my HA-RX700s with me, so it's Foobar > HotUSB1 > RX700s. 

 Immediately I was impressed with the soundstage. Much larger than my laptops onboard sound. Bass sounds good and tight, treble is crisp, everything is as it should be. No interference or clicks and pops (unlike the onboard sound). I'll see how it progresses and does with my 2200s later.

 In my inexpert opinion, for the price (well, for me it was free, but you know what I mean) I've got to say it's a nice upgrade. I'm kinda upset at myself for not having bought this a few months ago when I first ran across this thread.

 Now back to the family, and Merry Christmas!


----------



## stereolat

Congratulations Wenglish, and merry christmas


----------



## boba6

I own a HOTUSB1 (with PCM2707) for a while and really like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But even with a PA2V2 amp not powerful enough to drive my 400ohm AKG K340 (with high gain it was loud enough but there was a distortion).
 A QED MB45 was enough with 2 Watts R.M.S. per channel. 
 Any chance the MARK IV will drive it?


----------



## hotaudio40

I would have to say NO, the 400 ohms is just way too high and the voltage requirements for those phones is too high.

 It is not so much a matter of Watts, but what is important when driving high impedance headphones is the voltage output of the amplifier.

 To drive high impedance loads like 400 ohm headphones you have to deliver higher voltage to get the power to the phones.

 The MARK IV can deliver 150 mWatts into 16 ohms.

 Doing a little math the MARK IV will put out 1.55 Volts RMS.

 The voltage output of amplifiers doesn't change much throughout an amps rated load range ie 16 - 10,000 Ohms for the MARK IV.

 Now with 2 Watts RMS into 400 ohms, you'd need 28 Volts RMS.

 The math doesn't lie.

 You need one heck of an headphone amplifier to drive those phones to 2 Watts.

 In fact most Power Amplifiers that drive 8 ohm speakers put out around 28 Volts so you could probably run those phones directly from a small power amplifier.

 If you do do this, you are doing so at your own risk!!!! 

 But it is very hard to drive 400 ohms and get any kind of power without high voltage amps.

 For sure battery powered headphone amplifiers could not drive them UNLESS the headphones are VERY efficient, but it sounds like they are not.

 The MARK IV would put out 6 milliWatts into a 400 ohm load, 75 milliWatts into 32 ohms, and 150 milliWatts into 16 ohms... see the pattern.... for every double the impedance (ohms) you get half the power.

 If your headphones were 119 dB per milliWatt then they would work, but my guess from what you've said is that they are much lower efficiency.

 hotaudio40


----------



## VIrak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In fact most Power Amplifiers that drive 8 ohm speakers put out around 28 Volts so you could probably run those phones directly from a small power amplifier._

 

I've got two old Beyerdynamic DT-100's (400 Ohm) at a thrift. 

 Would it be possible to in any way damage _the amp_ by driving these directly from the speaker outputs of a e.g. a 40wpc/8Ohm amp?


----------



## hotaudio40

You'd be far more likely to damage the headphones...

 If you start with the volume at zero, and work your way up to a comfortable level...

 Most, if not all commercial amplifiers have fuses in them or some sort of protection.

 I'm 99.9% sure you could do that without damaging the amp.

 But I make NO recommendations that you try!

 And if you do try, YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!

 Please let us know how it goes.


----------



## VIrak

I've got a bunch of old low-wattage amps picked up at fleamarkets and such, so I'll try it out one of these days. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## boba6

thank you, others also suggested the desktop amp, I will try it with a Sonic Impact T-amp after balance mod...

 the specs are: 
 Transducter Types: Dynamic moving coil low-frequency system; Fixed-charge electrostat high-frequency system
 Frequency Range: 16 Hz to 25000 Hz
 Crossover: 4000 Hz, 6 dB/octave
 Nominal Impedance: 400 ohms, each channel
 Sensitivity: 1.6 Pa/volt
 Normal listening level requirements: 0.64V (1mW) for 94bB SPL (approx. 1 Pa), „IHF Sensitivity” rating 0.5V (63mW) for 112dB SPL (approx 8Pa)
 Sound Pressure Level for <= 1.0 THD: 104dB (200 to 2000Hz)
 Maximum Continuous Input (per chan.): 9V (200mW) approx. 117 dB SPL


----------



## Wenglish

So I've had the HotUSB1 for a few days now and am back in my apartment. I haven't been keeping an exact count, but I'd venture the DAC has at least 30 hours (probably closer to 40, but I would rather under than overestimate) on it. Since I'm not getting any work done (I swear, my book will be finished in 09--if I can't get these last few chapters done in a year I'm switching careers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) I figured I might as well A/B this DAC with my onboard. And remember, all of this is in my inexpert opinion.

 Listening with: 
 Foobar w/ ASIO > Onboard 'Sigmatel HiDef' sound / HotUSB1 > Ultrasone HFI 2200. Volume at normal "active" listening. Both songs are MP3s @ 320k 

 The short version: 
 If you're using a laptop buy yourself an external dac. That's all. I don't care if you buy this dac (though, at its price point I doubt you'll beat it) or something else. Really, just do it. 

 The long version:

 First song: Pain of Salvation - Used, track 1 from the Perfect Element 

 Onboard:
 Immediately (as the song opens with some loud chords) I'm hit with some harsh guitars. The bass guitar sounds a bit thin. Highs sound brittle. There's a bit of distortion going on towards the end of the opening. I get some glaring distortion (this time from the cymbals) at 1:05. In the "Getting used to pain" pre chorus there's more distortion on both the low and high ends of the spectrum. By this point I really, really want to stop using the onboard sound--and there's still 4 minutes left to sit through! 

 The guitar solo @ 2:40 starts out promisingly, as the song relaxes a bit here. As the rhythm section gets busy again and the backing vocals enter (starting softly with a build) the onboard goes to hell. I start hearing cymbal distortion and a general lack of definition. The end of the song isn't terribly offensive, but if you made it this far I have pity on your ears. 

 HotUSB1:
 The intro is handled with much more class, it doesn't feel like I'm being beaten over the head with a loud guitar. The music is pushed back a little bit, no obvious distortion occurring. The bass guitar is clearer, the highs more realistic/live sounding. The distortion at 1:05 is gone, as it the pre-chorus distortion. Drum dynamics feel much better--that might be just in my mind, but since the HotUSB1 has a better bass response I don't think so.

 There are some small keyboard details pre 2:40 solo that are much clearer on the HotUSB. Again, the solo sounds great, but this time the drums/backing vocal build doesn't distort. Again, the increase in drum detail here (due to the lack of distorting drum cymbals) is quite nice.

 Song 2: Agalloch - A Desolation Song, track 9 from The Mantle 

 Onboard sound: 
 Something different: acoustic guitar, accordion, mandolin, and whispered (ish) vocals only. No drums to get distorted, my ears are thankful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Much nicer this time around. The guitar is very much upfront. Accordion feels a little buried, the whisper/croak of the vocals are a bit too close, so it sounds more like he's whispering in my ear. The mandolin sounds nice, if also slightly buried. Overall, I can't really complain about this onboard audio's presentation of this song--it doesn't do anything glaringly wrong.

 HotUSB:
 The accordion sounds more balanced with the guitar through the HotUSB. Or rather, the guitar is pushed back a bit, as are the vocals. There's more air through the external dac. Again, the mandolin sounds nice, and a bit more forward--it's actually a little more discernible during the 2nd verse under the vocals. The effects at the end of the song sound a bit more full, too. 

 The differences between onboard and the HotUSB are much less dramatic for this song, however, the HotUSB is still better--if I was casually listening I probably wouldn't notice, but paying attention I feel that I could pick out the HotUSB in a blind test.

 I'll stop it here, as I feel it'll simply get redundant. David's HotUSB1 is a nice step up from onboard sound. Are there better DACs out there? Sure, but you can't buy them for $50. For a first/budget/laptop setup the HotUSB1 makes sense. Don't expect miracles, but then again, it changed an unlistenable Used into something quite nice for me.


----------



## josep

Hi to all, specially to Dave!

 It looks like this is the first post of 2009 here, so... HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone!

 Well, just to tell another HOTUSB1 is on his way (to Madrid, Spain). With the actual rates and the free shipping offer, it cost me just 50 euro and I wanted to have some alternative for the M-Audio Transit I use at office so...


----------



## NilsenNorway

I plan on getting one from him really soon too josep so hurry up and give us a review when you get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And happy newyear!


----------



## graj08

I also just ordered a HotUSB1. I asked Dave a question before I bought it, and he answered promptly. I bought the amp off ebay at 12:05 AM. At 12:21, I received an email from Dave saying the item was ready to ship and would be out the next morning. I have to say, I've never experienced service this good.

 Oh, and by the way, I really applaud your efforts to answer questions here on Head-fi. This is a great resource, and reading through the thread answered a lot of questions that I would have asked you.

 Keep it up, Dave!


----------



## josep

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *graj08* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought the amp off ebay at 12:05 AM. At 12:21, I received an email from Dave saying the item was ready to ship and would be out the next morning. I have to say, I've never experienced service this good._

 

1+

 I received Dave's email saying "it will ship today" 20 minutes after completing the ePay buy. Guys, it is january 1st. Astonishing. It deserves a great success.


----------



## peanuthead

Sorry for my ignorance, but does the DAC convert all formats to analog, or only lossless files?
 For example, I use iTunes on my computer which has mostly lossless and 256 aac VBR files. Would this DAC convert both formats to analog?


----------



## RickB

Yes.


----------



## hotaudio40

Well first of all Happy New Year to everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And this is by far the best forum out there for anyone looking at headphones or other audio related equipment.

 Everyone on here seems very honest, open, and helpful!

 I really enjoy this stuff as much as you guys all do, but it is your enthusiasm which fuels me to work even harder 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really enjoy reading the feedback and the different articles on here and elsewhere!

 If you guys are happy with my products then I am more then happy to make them for you!

 Here's to a great upcoming year for all !!!

 hotauido40


----------



## billybob_jcv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for my ignorance, but does the DAC convert all formats to analog, or only lossless files?
 For example, I use iTunes on my computer which has mostly lossless and 256 aac VBR files. Would this DAC convert both formats to analog?_

 

The DAC really has no idea what format or codec the source file is using. That's the job of the software player on your PC (in your case iTunes). The software player reads the format and sends the data out the USB port to the DAC. The DAC builds the analog signal. As long as your PC can see the DAC as an audio output device you are good to go. I can tell you that on my XP system, the hotusb1 was recognized with no additional drivers - it was literally just plug 'n play.


----------



## peanuthead

Thanks!


----------



## LaserWolf

I got my hotsub 1 two days ago and I must say that I love it. I'm new to the world of Hi-Fi so I'm not that great at analyzing sounds yet, but I'll post thoughts on the Hotusb as I use it more. so far the biggest thing about the Hotusb 1 is just how quiet it is. when coming out of my laptop sound card I would get all sorts of buzz and whir and other various system sounds. With the Hotusb though it is dead silent, I love it.


----------



## gsawdy

Hi Dave,
 Congrats on your success. I stumbled on this thread from a thread on low cost DAC's for notebooks. On your webpage I got really interested in the Digital Volume HiFi headphone amp. 

 Do you think this would work as a simple vol ctrl/pre for a pair of Dynaudio BM5a's? I want to give them to my daughter and I am looking for a cheap way to drive them and control the vol.

 I don't understand the idea of a digital vol control. Can you explain how the vol is reduced? I gather from a prior post there are no resistors, instead there are transistors. Can't transistors degrade the sound? I'm trying to understand this, not be critical. It doesn't sound like what is normally referred to digital volume control which reduces the vol while the signal is in the digital domain. 

 Thanks for your explanation. George


----------



## hotaudio40

Well that is a very good question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 A "Digital Volume" simply means that the volume is controlled by some sort of digital means. 

 This can be transistors, relays, resistors, pretty much any means of attenuating the signal as long as it is "controlled" digitally.

 In computers the signals are digitally controlled through software which in turn controls transistors. Either turning them on and off, or controlling their current output.

 Even software will distort an audio signal. 

 Anything that touches an audio signal will distort it and add noise.

 In the case of my digital volume headphone amplifier, the volume is controlled by two devices. A volume control that puts out a digital pulse, and an IC that interprets this pulse and controls volume via transistors, and I'm sure there are some resistors in there too.

 The idea being that most of the attenuation (signal reduction) is controlled by the gain of transistors, probably a jfet or some more advanced transistor (I'd have to look at the chip specs, but I know it is good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

 Thus the noise reduction is greatly reduced as transistors have far less noise then do resistors, and carbon volume controls are way noisier then just about anything, and they are the most common volume control in audio equipment, although microprocessor controlled volume is becoming very popular now.

 All computers control volume with software that controls a digital control of some type and this is basically the same as what I use, EXCEPT I decided to go with an IC that DOES NOT use a clock or microprocessor.

 Thus I believe my digital volume control is superior to those that do use carbon based volume controls or even microprocessor controlled volumes. 

 Although I have read specs on some chips that use microprocessors and they are quite good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just wanted to make the purest digital volume that I could.

 The chip I use "steps" through attenuation levels. 

 It does NOT use software of any kind.

 And as far as I know, it has NO microprocessor inside the IC.

 Back to your question.

 Any time a signal is attenuated or increased for that matter, some noise and distortion will be added.

 Only by leaving a signal alone will it remain intact fully...

 But the purest form of signal manipulation is done with transistors.

 And I'm talking about the newest types because they can have noise levels as low as 10 to the minus 12th.

 Even though these transistors are NOT linear, with a fancy circuit of several transistors a very linear curve can be achieved.

 And that's what these digital volume control ICs do.

 My digital volume headphone amplifier will only amplify analogue signals, just so you know.

 It doesn't have a DAC inside and does not connect to a USB port or have any digital input.

 It has NO resistive or carbon based volume controls and it has NO capacitors in the audio signal path.

 Basically it is as pure an analogue amplifier as I could derive at the time I created it.

 Are there better digital volume controls.... Well yes there are, but they use micro-processors to control them.... and using them means a more complex circuit and much more chance of noise getting into the system.

 Will I use those chips eventually..... Well yes I will 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Simply because I like trying all possible combinations.

 I hope this helps answer your questions.

 hotaudio40


----------



## gsawdy

Thank you for your reply. I did a google search and found this link and the related link the Roland site
Remote volume
 and
Jeff Rowland Design Group - Digital Volume Controls

 They talk about a micro controller, being a non-engineer type I'm not sure if that is the same as a micro processor. VBG

 Anyway those links are primarily for your interest--way over my head, but apparently Roland does or has used them. 

 You got interested in one of my questions and forgot to answer the one of most import to me. Namely will this unit serve as a vol control/preamp to drive the Dynaudio powered monitors?

 Thanks again George


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, you could for sure use the Digital Volume Headphone Amplifier as a preamp to drive any powered speakers or Power Amplifiers.

 Just feed in a line-level signal (~2 Volts RMS) and it will give you a voltage gain of about 3 or 11dB.

 It will do quite a good job too, if I don't say so myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*NOTE: One thing to note about using this as a preamp, which may be very important, is that when this headphone amplifier is turned off it resets itself.

 Once reset, it will put the volume at 1/2 gain and put the balance back to the middle of the left and right channel.

 This may be important as when you turn on this preamp and say you've got music going into it and your power amplifier is ON.

 The output may be QUITE LOUD!!!! because it starts at 1/2 volume.

 This wouldn't be an issue if you ALWAYS remember to turn your power amplifier on AFTER you've turned down the gain on this device.

 It may not be that big of an issue with powered speakers, but could be quite an issue with a Power Amp configuration.

 It could be VERY LOUD!!!!*

 hotaudio40


----------



## minusthetom

Im pretty happy with my SR80's and don't intend to upgrade them any time soon. I was wondering whether there'd be a noticeable improvement using one of these in comparison to plugging my phones straight into the headphone jack on my macbook, bearing in mind I'm a head-fi newbie.


----------



## gsawdy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*NOTE: One thing to note about using this as a preamp, which may be very important, is that when this headphone amplifier is turned off it resets itself.

 Once reset, it will put the volume at 1/2 gain and put the balance back to the middle of the left and right channel.
 .
 .
 .
 .
 This wouldn't be an issue if you ALWAYS remember to turn your power amplifier on AFTER you've turned down the gain on this device.

 It may not be that big of an issue with powered speakers, but could be quite an issue with a Power Amp configuration.

 It could be VERY LOUD!!!!*

 hotaudio40_

 


 Thank you for reexplaining it to me--I'll have to think about that. Maybe a push on/off mute switch. The speakers are pro monitors and pretty robust but they don't have built in limiters and tweeters are delicate. As for forgetfulness--what were we talking about??????? VBG 

 Next and last question: Since these are to be used on a desktop and portability is not an issue, have you tried replacing the battery with a simple 9v wall wart? I'm well aware of the benefits of batteries but also the inconveniences.
 Best, George


----------



## hotaudio40

Well I did have wall wart powered units, but they cost much more to make - time wise, (remember these are hand made ), and in my opinion, the sound quality was not as good as with battery power.

 I use NiMH rechargeables for testing and listening to the amps. It saves me tones in batteries and the NiMH seem to last forever. The Alkaline rechargeables always seem to either die or explode but not the NiMH batteries...

 They keep going and going....

 So that's what I recommend.

 hotaudio40


----------



## stereolat

hello to everyone, just this week i purchased a hotaudio mark iv and a ultrasone hfi 2200, i hope this combination sound ok.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

I've owned my Mark IV for, I think, about 2 weeks. I bought it to drive my AKG K271S headphones at work. But I burned it in at home--along with the K271S--and home is probably where it will stay. Thanks to its two sets of outputs--stereo mini (3.5mm) and dual RCA--the Mark IV serves double-duty, driving my home K271S phones and my M-Audio StudioPhile DX4 powered desktop speakers. 

 After a 100-hour burn-in, the sound is quite pleasing: rich, warm, and loud, especially through the speakers. The Mark IV makes the speakers sound much larger.

 I've also burned in some new AKG K-181DJ phones and run them on the Mark IV. The 181s sound quite nice in this arrangement. However, for me their quality will be wasted, as they'll be used chiefly for listening to recorded books on the commuter train and bus, unamped.

 If you buy the Mark IV, please listen to uncompressed audio files and treat yourself to decent audio cables to connect your phones or speakers. Your sound can only be as good as the weakest link.

 Eventually, I suppose I'll buy another Mark IV--or whatever may surpass it--to drive my work setup: AKG K271S phones, M-Audio StudioPhile 3 powered desktop speakers, and (any day now) Yamaha YS315 10-inch powered subwoofer. 

 One benefit of USB amps that I've never seen mentioned: You can use a cheap USB cable for most of the needed length, and get by with a shorter analog cable to finish the path from amp to phones (or speakers). If you're running a cable that costs an arm and a leg per foot, the savings can be considerable.


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *minusthetom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im pretty happy with my SR80's and don't intend to upgrade them any time soon. I was wondering whether there'd be a noticeable improvement using one of these in comparison to plugging my phones straight into the headphone jack on my macbook, bearing in mind I'm a head-fi newbie._

 

I can't speak about the Macbook headphone jack personally, as I don't use Apple products. However, if you go back a page or two you can see my impressions about the HotUSB1 vs. the headphone out on my D630. I got a bunch of noise from my D630 (could hear the hard drive spin up, etc) and it was pretty nasty at even moderate volume. 

 If you get no noise from the Macbook headphone out and it doesn't distort at your desired/max listening levels then I don't know what to say (as I haven't heard that headphone out myself). I assume that the the pcm2705 would be a better chip than whatever apple uses--anyone with first hand experience?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stereolat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hello to everyone, just this week i purchased a hotaudio mark iv and a ultrasone hfi 2200, i hope this combination sound ok._

 

I have a set of Ultrasone HFI2200s. From everything I've read they're much more forgiving than the Pro750/2500s, but they still need quite a bit of burning in. I got mine with 10 hours on them and they didn't sound bad, but they were noticeably better after another 40 or so hours. I stopped keeping track after there (they're probably close to 100, if not a more) and they are still improving. 

 Solid bass, solid mids, good soundstage. Highs are a little bright, but they seem to be calming down as I log more hours on them. 

**EDIT**
 Read above, was beaten to it by 3 minutes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



**EDIT**

 I haven't heard a Mark IV, but from my understanding it's a hotusb1 with RCA and 3.5mm buffered outputs (and some extra magic? Dave can specify/correct me). The USB1 sounds good with the 2200s--I'd like it to have a little more juice to really drive them, but it can get them comfortably loud. Adding an amp helps. 

 Therefore, a Mark IV should do even better, as I doubt it'll need the added amp. When you get both in let us know what you think. 

 <thread jack>
 Oh, and what do you think of the 2200s color scheme? The brown and orange speaks to me--which is odd, cause I own nothing else in those colors . I really dig the different looks.
 </thread jack>


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes the MARK IV is a buffered version of the HOTUSB1.

 Simply put, the MARK IV can output 75mWatts into 32 ohms and the HOTUSB1 can output 12mWatts into 32 ohms.

 So pretty much the MARK IV does not need an extra amplifier, but nor does the HOTUSB1 if your headphones are efficient as most are.

 But of course, it is nice to have the extra power 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A little extra "MAGIC" in the MARK IV... of course....

 But there is plenty of magic in the HOTUSB1 as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just scoped the MARK IV driving 32 Ohms headphones and it was able to produce 4 Volts peak to peak output swings, which is pretty good considering it is running off a 5 Volt power supply. 

 Almost rail to rail, and maybe it would do rail to rail, but I didn't push it to clipping.

 The advantage of the HOTUSB1 though is that your getting pure PCM2705 Burr Brown DAC and then you can add any kind of headphone amplifier you wish on top of that.

 You could do that with the MARK IV as well, but it really would be overkill.

*NOTE: Remember that adding amps does NOT necessarily increase the power output. The maximum power output is determined by the last power output stage. So if you are using a MARK IV with 150mWatts output power and you add another amplifier afterwards that runs off a 5 Volt power supply you WON'T be getting any extra power output! Because the most it can deliver is the same voltage as the 4 Volt swing of the MARK IV. The HOTUSB1 could benefit from an amplifier as it has a smaller voltage swing.*

 hotaudio40


----------



## PortaDiFerro

Looks like this little DAC is getting lot of praise, and with the price it's sounding really appealing.

 Originally I was considering buying some 24/192 sound card, but external DAC sounds handy so I could use it on laptop and on school computers too.

 I gather from this thread this is 16bit device, so being a noob and all, I'm wondering how would it compare against the 24bit soundcards such as some cheaper M-audio models or even the Chaintech?

 Also looks like the hotUSB1 has an amp in it, but I already have RSA Hornet M which I love. Would the DAC benefit from another amp such as that?


----------



## ddoingwell

My HotAudio40 TPA6120A2 Based Headphone Amplifier with a 32 Step Digital Rotary Encoder Volume/Balance Control arrived today and I've been listening to it for a few hours of real joy. I'll do the respectful thing and give the amp 100 hours or so before commenting in detail for fear of putting my Size 13 firmly in my mouth. Suffice to say that initial impressions are very good and I'm using the amp to drive my uber-fussy AKG K501s too! Surely things will only get better.

 One little thing to note: delivery over Christmas/New Years took 14 days total from Winterpeg...I mean WINNIPEG...to Cairns Queensland Australia, despite the annual Christmas postal rush, public holidays et al. Impressive. The packaging was truly bullet-proof and Dave even supplied a lead, new battery and a little intro letter with that info quoted earlier in this thread about the digital volume pot. 

 More soon.

 Happy New Year of listening goes out to everyone!

 Don


----------



## ddoingwell

OK: 24 hours of run-in later and I'm very impressed with the clarity and general sound quality of my new HotAudio40 TPA6120A2 Headphone Amp. I'm using it with my tired little iMacG4, a SuperPro DAC and three different headphones so far. My fussyfussyfussy AKG K501s really have never sounded better to me and wonder of wonders: the K501s have a delightful new tight bass sound that I have never heard in them before. The 9V Duracell Dave provided with the amp is still going strong so there's going to be life in it yet. I'll run it dry to get an idea of battery life and report back. 

 Stay tuned.

 Don


----------



## paara

Ordered a HOTAUDIO SUPREME PCM2702 BUFFERED USB DAC today, I can't see any posts about this product. Dave recommended it over the 2 other DACs he is producing. 

 I was originally planing to buy the HOTUSB1 since I am suppose to use it as a pure DAC to feed a HEAD-DIRECT EF1 (on its way), but after mailing Dave he recommended the Supreme. Now I am a bit worried that the amp will be feed with to “much power”. I don't have any experience with this, but the last thing I want is to blow my new amp along with my headphones (HD600 and AH-D2000) the first time I power up my laptop. So I am curious how it will work. In any case I will find a use for it. 

 Going back to the sound quality, does anyone have any listening experience regarding the supreme? I wonder how the supreme would compare against more expensive and bigger DACs like Headroom Micro DAC or Keces DA-151 DAC. I am currently using the headphone output of my HP laptop, and a got to say it is remarkable nice sounding (for a laptop) hope the supreme will make a difference. 

 Anyone know what sound difference there are between the pcm2705 and the pcm2702?

 As I see other has, I too have to give Dave credit for fast mail replies and shipping. Getting conformation of shipping less then 30min after placing a order is great, but I guess being a small “company” would help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but 2 thumbs up for friendly and good mail responses. 

 There are some information about the different DACs on the hotaudio web page, but some more information about the differences in sound quality/details/etc. would be “good for business”. Especially between mark IV and supreme. Now it seem like the biggest difference between the products are the price. (Just me 2 cents) Well after the 25% discount on the supreme there isn't much difference in price either)

 I'll try to write a review when I have received the supreme. (cant if my ears are made of dung and I can't hear the difference between my laptop and the DAC+ hybrid amp solution 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) 

 Dave: you should also think about becoming a head-fi sponsor or by som other means getting a link on head-fi. For a 
 novice like me, it was just coincidence I found your web page. Got a tip from a fellow head fi'er

 Stian


----------



## hotaudio40

Oh, don't worry about the DAC blowing anything up. It won't do that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You have control!
 Just like a regular sound card.

 I actually did send an email about being a sponsor of head-fi.org, but I never got a response back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps my email got lost.

 Either way I do advertise through google on this site, so in a way I do sponsor them...

 As far at what the differences between a PCM2705 and a PCM2702...

 There are many....

 Checking out the specs at TI.COM is a good place to start.

 I would tell you the differences, but I like reading about what others think.

 Really the specs don't tell the whole story. They do when it comes to noise floor and accuracy. But as far as how it would sound. The specs can't tell you a thing.

 But the specs can tell you what a chip is capable of if it is implemented properly.

 I try to be as informative about my products as possible, but I get so caught up in the design and testing phases, that I never really get around to putting out a good explanation of the differences.

 I try to, but I'm always building and designing and listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've only sold a handful of SUPREME DACs so there's not much written about them.

 Just a few brief comments on my evilbay feedback and because my evilbay sales are anonymous, you can't tell what product they're talking about unless they say and sometimes they do say, but mostly they don't. 

 hotaudio40


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PortaDiFerro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Also looks like the hotUSB1 has an amp in it, but I already have RSA Hornet M which I love. Would the DAC benefit from another amp such as that?_

 

From what Dave has said, it appears that the HotUSB1 is the ideal way to go if you already have an amp you'd like to use with it. The Mark IV (and the Supreme) are buffered and won't need an amp unless you're trying to drive more inefficient phones. Adding an amp to them might help--and it might be overkill, depending on the application. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paara* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Going back to the sound quality, does anyone have any listening experience regarding the supreme? I wonder how the supreme would compare against more expensive and bigger DACs like Headroom Micro DAC or Keces DA-151 DAC. I am currently using the headphone output of my HP laptop, and a got to say it is remarkable nice sounding (for a laptop) hope the supreme will make a difference. _

 

I can't comment on the supreme specifically, but the HotUSB1 was a huge step up over my D630's headphone jack. And I thought that the D630 was pretty nice, as it was a good step up over my old M6805. I have an A/B comparison a few pages back, but the shorthand version is: external dac > headphone jack. 

 I had a lot of distortion at the extremes that cleared up completely and there's a slightly larger soundstage. And of course, the noise from my headphone jack doesn't exist in the DAC--in all, a great upgrade. I'm sure the Supreme will be just as good.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I would tell you the differences, but I like reading about what others think.

 Really the specs don't tell the whole story. They do when it comes to noise floor and accuracy. But as far as how it would sound. The specs can't tell you a thing.

 But the specs can tell you what a chip is capable of if it is implemented properly.

 I try to be as informative about my products as possible, but I get so caught up in the design and testing phases, that I never really get around to putting out a good explanation of the differences.

 I try to, but I'm always building and designing and listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've only sold a handful of SUPREME DACs so there's not much written about them.

 hotaudio40_

 

Hehe, well guess I dont have to worry about blowing anything up then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll try to give you some feedback when I get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is there a reason that you use a 16bit insted of 24bit design?


----------



## nowickia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paara* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a reason that you use a 16bit insted of 24bit design?_

 

As far as I understand, the USB chips available are generally limited to 16bit. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## eukaryote:)

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nowickia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I understand, the USB chips available are generally limited to 16bit. Someone correct me if I'm wrong._

 

I think it's the fact the current usb drivers only allow 16 bit stream of audio through them.


----------



## hotaudio40

That is correct. 

 The Windows USB drivers only allow 16 bit streams.

 Kinda strange when you think about it....

 I'm sure Microsofft has their reasons.

 Perhaps not to compete with all the other formats, because the PC would CRUSH them all.

 With software, if you think about it, it is quite easy to change a 16 to a 24 as the data is just streamed out....

 In fact why stop at 24 bit, when all you'd have to do is change the stream number to a say 128 bit or whatever....

 Same with inputting, just change one number....

 I think the 24 bit streamed USB from Msoft will be coming soon...

 It is just a guess, and by soon a year or two, but still it would be quite easy to do as far as I understand.

 And then of course, WOOHOO the 24 bit USB DACs will be out, and you can bet I'll have a handful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*EDIT: After doing some reading, there are 24 bit USB DACs available, but they come with there own 24 bit USB drivers, as they must because windows doesn't support that yet...*

 hotaudio40


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

For what it's worth, the five PCM 27xx DACs are directly compared in this Texas Instruments table. I see that the 2702 has a 7dB better signal-to-noise ratio.


----------



## paara

I think usb 2.0 supports 24bit. I could be wrong. 

 Have you tested any of the Cirrus Logic chips? 

 I see the CS4398 support 24bit and on paper might be superior to TI PCM270x. But paper vs world doesn't go hand in hand i guess.

 If you feel like it Dave, maybe you would post some photos of any secret creation, production line, "testing area", etc. It would be interesting


----------



## hotaudio40

If I showed you "secret creations" then they wouldn't be secrets now would they 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have NOT tried any CS chips yet, but am looking at them intensely....

 I've been stuck on BURR BROWN products ever since I heard the OPA series of op-amps.

 That and the fact that I have no digital output devices and I listen to all my music from the PC so USB just seems to be the most favorable choice.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I showed you "secret creations" then they wouldn't be secrets now would they 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hehe, true indeed


----------



## gjsi

any recommendations for an amp & dac for an akg k240 sextett? they could be a combined or separate. im looking to get a pair of the sextetts, but thought it would be nice to have a setup at home first. 

 currently only have er6i and ksc75, but looking to upgrade soon. 

 thanks!!


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

gjsi,
 Good question about the Sextett. That's 600 ohms; the HotAudio amps are said to be good to drive loads as high as 300 ohms. But maybe Dave is being conservative.

 Today at work I received a Yamaha YST-SW315 subwoofer (10-inch driver, 150W). I had misunderstood its outputs: I thought it had line outs, when in fact it has only speaker outs. I need line outs to feed my M-Audio StudioPro 3 main speakers. 

 My dilemma was solved by the HotAudio Mark IV. (I had brought it in from home, anticipating that it might be needed.) Thanks to its twin output jacks--RCA L+R jacks and a stereo minijack--I was able to connect to the main speakers and subwoofer at the same time. Presto! 

 I realize it's not as "pure" a solution as letting the sub feed the mids and highs to the main speakers, but it works just fine.

 When I need to use headphones, I'll just disconnect the subwoofer cable from the Mark IV's minijack and plug my AKG headphone cable in its place.


----------



## gjsi

thanks a lot paul! 

 so is it safe to say that the hotaudio's 40 mark IV is the most versatile audio equipment hes offering? 

 maybe i should wait for him to confirm that they can power something like the sextetts before i get them.


----------



## ddoingwell

gjsi:

 If you write to Dave directly, you'll know immediately. You can even phone him. Whatta guy.

 He's here:
 HotAudio.Com
 1-209-207-7915
hotaudio40@hotmail.com

 That info is all listed on his store webpage here:
HotAudio.Com, Hand Crafted Audio Perfection.

 Just so y'all don't lose patience with me, I'm sure that everything I've just stuck in here is listed somewhere in this thread but gjsi might have missed it. Good luck!
 Don


----------



## ddoingwell

Note to Paul_in_Maryland: 

 I love it when people do a little lateral thinking with gear. Your story with the sub and the Mark IV is perfect. As a career working musician, I've had to do things like that zillions of times WHILE ON STAGE. The show must go on.

 Good onya Paul. Now please me why all your headphones are closed....


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ddoingwell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Note to Paul_in_Maryland: 

 Good onya Paul. Now please me why all your headphones are closed...._

 

So I won't disturb fellow rider on the bus or train, coworkers in my office, or a family member who may be working on a computer near mine.

 True, there are times when I could listen alone on, say, an AKG 701. But by standardizing on closed phones, I keep my collection small and versatile.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gjsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks a lot paul! 

 so is it safe to say that the hotaudio's 40 mark IV is the most versatile audio equipment hes offering?_

 

Yes, together with his PCM2702-based Supreme (the DAC formerly known as Heaven).


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

...on eBay. Hey--after moving my "home" Mark IV to work, what was I to do?
 I guess this means I'll never own the Supreme.


----------



## Wenglish

The TPA61020a2 amp w/ Digital Vol and Balance control just arrived about 20 minutes ago. Paid around 11PM on the 2nd, Dave shipped it the 3rd, and it made to NJ today. Great communication throughout, so not to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but I've gotta say that Dave's great with the customer service.

 Construction is solid, it's about the size of a HotUSB1 + room for a 9V battery (I could post pictures if anyone really would like to see it). The volume control confused me--counterclockwise is louder, so I surprised myself when I first turned it on.

 I've got a deadline bearing down on me so I'm gonna keep this short: 

 Right out of the box: There is a very subtle bump (because it doesn't sound like a pop) when the amp is turned on. Turning the pot in a full circle makes no noise/pops/etc whatsoever, so I'm pretty sure this amp counts as silent--at least, with my HFI2200s. 

 It sounds good. No complaints at this early stage but because I'm working no real detailed impressions either. 

 More to come.


----------



## paara

Pictures are always nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking forward to a full review.


----------



## Wenglish

A few more notes (no pictures this time, on my way out to the bar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




):

 This pushes my 2200s loud. Technically to ear bleed level--although it doesn't sound fatiguing in the least. When I took off the phones (after settling on 1 click above 1/2, windows vol 100%, -10dB in Foobar) I was astounded by how loud they sounded sitting on the couch. Oh, how sweetly seductive volume can be.

 I like what I hear so far. The digital control is great and so far I haven't been able to find any channel imbalance at lower levels. More details as it burns in, et al. 

 I'll see how my drunk audition goes in a few hours


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, yes "sweetly seductive"....

 Sometime I can hear my headphones in a different room... and it makes me think, is that a wise level to be listening too ???? 

 but still it sounds so good to me


----------



## peanuthead

I already have a headphone amp and am interested in using HotUSB1 as DAC only. Can I connect HotUSB1 to my amp using 1/8 to RCA stereo cable? Is there any danger in doing this - kinda double amping, connecting an amp to another? Thanks.


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, you can connect the HOTUSB1 to an amp. No danger at all.

 In fact you can connect any of my DACs to amplifiers, both headphone amps and power amps.

 Thanks,
 Dave


----------



## Pariah1

Man the SUPREME PCM2702 went up in price again, just when I was getting ready to order. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone recommend these DACs for a guy who likes music bright, detailed, good imaging and soundstage, tight, fast, taut bass...for mostly rock/pop? I don't want clinical cold sound, but I don't want overly warm sound either. I need neutral, open, transparent, nuanced type of sound.


----------



## ddoingwell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pariah1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man the SUPREME PCM2702 went up in price again, just when I was getting ready to order. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone recommend these DACs for a guy who likes music bright, detailed, good imaging and soundstage, tight, fast, taut bass...for mostly rock/pop? I don't want clinical cold sound, but I don't want overly warm sound either. I need neutral, open, transparent, nuanced type of sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Pariah, I suggest you email Dave directly; he's more than willing to go the extra yard for the customer, and in my experience, he's also more about service/product than he is about absolute price-point. I don't have one of his DACs (yet) but I do have the top-of-his-range portable headphone amp and it's a peach. You won't be disappointed. 

 My review/commentary on the above noted amp will be forthcoming...probably a few weeks off but I really enjoy what I'm hearing. One short comment I will make now is that it makes mediocre headphones blossom into something more than they were before, and it brings a real sense of emotion to my notoriously fussy AKG K501s. 

 Cheers lads.
 Don


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, you can connect the HOTUSB1 to an amp. No danger at all.

 In fact you can connect any of my DACs to amplifiers, both headphone amps and power amps.

 Thanks,
 Dave_

 

Thanks for your response. I have another question. What would result in better sound quality: 1) connecting hotUSB1 to headphone amp with 1/8 to RCA stereo cable, or 2) connecting Mark IV (using RCA out) to headphone amp with RCA stereo to RCA stereo cable?

 Am I correct in thinking that connecting hotUSB1 to an amp is like connecting iPod headphone jack to an amp, whereas connecting Mark IV (RCA out) to an amp is like connecting iPod's line-out (dock connector) to an amp?

 Thanks.


----------



## hotaudio40

Well it doesn't have as much to do with the cable as it does with the MAXIMUM VOLTAGE RMS.

 In the case of the HOTUSB1 the maximum Voltage RMS is .62 Volts giving 12 mWatts into 32 ohms.

 In the case of the MARK IV the maximum Voltage RMS is 1.55 Volts giving 75 mWatts into 32 ohms.

 Now the power output is really not important when driving amplifiers, but the voltage can be depending on the gain of the amplifier.

 If the amplifier has lots of gain, above 12dB, then the HOTUSB1 or the MARK IV would both work great.

 If the amplifier has less then 12 dB of gain then I'd only recommend the MARK IV or SUPREME for driving the amplifier.

 And this goes for Power Amplifiers as well as headphone amplifiers.

 Not to say that the cable is not important because it is Very important and a RCA cable will outperform a 3.5mm to RCA cable 99% of the time for sure.

 But the more important factor is the gain of the amplifier.

 I would recommend the MARK IV over the HOTUSB1 for driving any amplifiers period and not just because it has the RCA outputs, but because it also has the higher output voltage thereby giving you plenty of gain to play with.

 hotaudio40


----------



## Wenglish

Big full review of the TPA6120 amp with free puppies and whatnot forthcoming (when I actually get a chance to listen to some music, being busy sucks), but I wanted to expand on one of my previous statements.

 The amp is, more or less, silent with my Ultrasone HFI 2200s. If I turn it up all the way with no music I can just make out this subtle background noise, so it's not as silent as I originally thought. If the heat is on in the house though, the air blowing into my room obscures it--so it's really that quiet. 

 However, with my JVC HA-RX700s there's a noticeable hiss as soon as the amp is on. It lasts throughout the entire volume range. I can't hear the hiss if music is playing, at least, at listening levels. If the amp is turned down all the way, to only a few steps above silent (it varies with how loud the song is, but rarely over 3 steps), I can make out the hiss with music on--but the music is too low at that point to for practical listening.

 I don't have anything more sensitive to test with, maybe Ddoingwell has something? For practical use for me it's a non-issue, but it could be an issue for others.


----------



## ddoingwell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wenglish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I don't have anything more sensitive to test with, maybe Ddoingwell has something? For practical use for me it's a non-issue, but it could be an issue for others._

 


 Regarding the hiss, you may find that it's your source that's giving you that. If possible, try a few different sources, even try running the amp directly from the output on a CD player or off the record/pre-amp outs on an integrated amp. Barring that, try different volumes on the source you do have. I'm not getting any hiss though when the amp was newer, there were a few teeeny weeeeny crunchy bits coming off the volume pot as I turned it up/down that went away after about 12 hours. Also, my first amp developed a flaw and has been returned to the magnanimous Dave who has sent me a replacement before even waiting for the troubled amp to reach him. Seems that the over-heat protect in the chip was a bit trigger happy and the amp would shut itself off after about an hour of use. It would come back after a while but it was a pain so Dave offered to replace it immediately. Sound-wise, it's still magnificent and when the new one arrives, I'll comment more fully on the sound. I have a Meier and a PA2V2 as well as a Classic 10.0 pre-amp with headphone amp in the output stage for comparison.


----------



## hotaudio40

There might be a bit of hiss on the TPA6120a2 Digital Volume amplifier.

 I myself have noticed it.

 I think it has something to do with the extreme speed and level of gain this chip has.

 Controlling this chip is like controlling a nuclear reaction.

 And I'm being quite serious.

 The chip is so fast and responsive that it took allot of engineering just to get it stable.

 At first the chip wanted to oscillate all the time and I suspect that is why you don't see too many amps using it.

 It is just so hard to contain and control.

 Now as to where the 'hiss' is coming from, I have yet to determine.

 It may be that the chip is so sensitive it is picking up the noise of the resistors in the feedback loop...

 Every amplifier has this type of feedback resistance but very few are capable of a 1300 V/μs Slew Rate!

 Yes that's not an error.

 It is capable of 1300 V/μs Slew Rate.

 Try to find an op-amp or any amp for that matter that can do that.

 And that makes that chip EXTREMEMLY HARD to master.

 It could be picking up hiss from the source as well. 

 It is just very, very sensitive.

 But to get performance like what it achieves, you have to have that kind of sensitivity.

 Really, check out these specs:

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa6120a2.pdf

 Look at those numbers and try to find a chip that compares to that in any way.

 If you find one let me know.

 Keep in mind this hiss is very subtle and at the low end of the spectrum, like a low end pink noise, maybe coming from the universe.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





*EDIT: Just for the hell of it, I wanted to see if the models I have around here had "the hiss". 

 I had to first move to a very quiet room, that in itself was hard to find as there are fans and motors running all over this house... It is winter here after all...

 After finding a reasonably quiet place, I just listened with nothing pluged in and I could not hear anything. Then I plugged in a 12 inch 3.5mm patch cord with the end open, and I could hear a slight, and I'm talking slight hiss, but I had to listen very hard to hear it.

 Now to do a real test of this amplifiers internal noise, the input has to be shorted out and shorted out as close to the input as possible to create a "NULL".

 I haven't done that, but I really see no need as with the cord simply unplugged I can't hear anything, so "NULLING" that would just be a waist of time for me. But I will build a "NULL" plug and try it one night when there is complete silence, perhaps camping in the woods on a freakishly quite night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But back to reality, you have to test for internal noise with a DEAD SHORT on the input. That is the only real way to see how much noise, if any an amplifier has.

 Else it could be getting noise from a number of places, sources, cables, etc.

 And it has to be a damn good "NULL", Gold plated and Super High Quality. Some metals create conduction noise, Gold is the quietest.

 This amplifier is that sensitive...*

 hotaudio40


----------



## Wenglish

That generated a quick response.


 Like I said, it's very, very hard to hear on the 2200s and that's only when turning the amp far past reasonable listening levels. I'm talking about the very, very upper end of the volume (as in the last few clicks on the knob). And even then, I have to be looking for it--I didn't notice it until I specifically went looking for it (in response to hearing the hiss of the RX700s). 

 At this very moment I just tried to see if I could hear it--and I can't over my laptop's exhaust fan. That's how quiet we're talking. 

 Using the exact same setup, just swapping the 2200s for the RX700s, I have hiss that's only audible when there's no music playing or when music is playing and the amp is set to such a low level (literally, 1-3 volume clicks over silent). And remember, the RX700s are $35 cans, so it could very well be their shoddy cable (and really, I want to lean towards this because of how hard it is to hear with the 2200s).

 Overall it's a *complete non-issue* (I really want to emphasize that, as it does not in any way negatively affect music playback) for me/these two headphones. I would venture a guess that it would be a non-issue for pretty much every set of cans out there. 

 However, I know some IEMs are super sensitive and I'm just wondering how they would react.

 Edit:
 ddoingwell, nothing in terms of overheat for me, bummer to hear that. It's good to see, again, that Dave is standing behind his products.


----------



## spookygonk

Thinking of ordering one of the HOTUSB1 to work with an Acer Aspire One netbook I bought yesterday. Already have a couple of amps (portable & desktop) to use and this looks an affordable way of getting better sound from the netbook. Headphones will be Senn HD580 & Koss KSC75s (depending if at home or out & about).


----------



## Danielj

Received the Hotaudio mkIV yesterday...shipping was only 7 days to Oregon. Dave shipped it out the same day I ordered it via a 2nd chance offer thru his ebay store.

 I have about 7 hours on the dac so far, so burn in is still in progress, but I am happy so far. I ordered this product because of the buffered line out. I run my laptop to an amp 6 tripath amp that Derek H built for me (very nice little speaker amp). It likes speakers with effeiency of 90db or better. My homemade cabinets have tang bang 4 in. full range with 87db...so I wanted a bit of db push; which the mk IV acomplished nicely.

 While I am no expert reviewer nor anyway near the likes of Skylab etc... I think this little dac will be fine. My former was an Echo indigo IO which I liked the sound but it just didnt push out enough current for my amp. Id say the mkIV is a bit warmer and perhaps a bit more forward

 I have not been able to find kernal streaming on my computer yet, so havent tried that option. I do have asio drivers from my Echo so may try them.


----------



## josep

Hello,

 My HOTUSB1 arrived this morning: perfect packaging and quite fast shipping btw. It worked flawlessly and everything was ok, even if a quick look inside showed a construction far from, er, neat. 

 But it is fine: a quick comparo to my three references here showed it has less hiss than the M-Audio Transit and the (noisy) Yulong DAH1Mark, but just a tiny bit more than the Behringer UCA202 (almost totaly silent). This, using the really very sensitive Shure E500s (if you cannot hear hiss/hum with them, the thing is VERY silent!). The UCA202 is a bargain but the sound quality out if its hp jack is no exactly stellar, and as far as I have seen (well, heard) by now this HOTUSB1 is doing well.

 More to come...


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Danielj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do have asio drivers from my Echo so may try them._

 

I, too, own an Echo Indigo and the Mark IV. How would I go about trying to use the Echo's ASIO drivers with the Mark IV?


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

Dave,
 My second Mark IV arrived today. Unlike the first, it includes a second 3.5mm minijack--this one on the rear panel, beside the USB port! This rear minijack is neither shown nor mentioned in the user instructions that came with either Mark IV. Is it an Line In input? Or a third output (minijack 1, dual RCA, minijack 2)?


----------



## hotaudio40

It is an extra output. I saw your post about the sub output and you having to unplug the sub to plug in your headphones so I took the liberty of adding an extra output.... I hope you don't mind....


----------



## Danielj

Paul I dont know exactlyhow one would use the echo asio with the mk IV. I am hoping that by putting asio dll. in the foobar folder, that foobar will pick it up.. I too would like to hear if others have tried this, and to what effect

 I was hoping that I could just use kernal streaming, but cant seem to find that as an option on my laptop
 Dan


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is an extra output. I saw your post about the sub output and you having to unplug the sub to plug in your headphones so I took the liberty of adding an extra output.... I hope you don't mind...._

 

Talk about customer service!


----------



## Alai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is an extra output. I saw your post about the sub output and you having to unplug the sub to plug in your headphones so I took the liberty of adding an extra output.... I hope you don't mind...._

 

Wow, that's hawt. I'm tempted to buy something from you just so I can experience such hawtness.


----------



## zkool448

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is an extra output. I saw your post about the sub output and you having to unplug the sub to plug in your headphones so I took the liberty of adding an extra output.... I hope you don't mind...._

 

..due to these small, yet special attention Dave gives to his customers and their needs, ...off to eBay I go to place an order for one of these babies


----------



## josep

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *josep* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 My HOTUSB1 arrived this morning: perfect packaging and quite fast shipping btw. It worked flawlessly and everything was ok, even if a quick look inside showed a construction far from, er, neat. 

 But it is fine: a quick comparo to my three references here showed it has less hiss than the M-Audio Transit and the (noisy) Yulong DAH1Mark, but just a tiny bit more than the Behringer UCA202 (almost totaly silent). This, using the really very sensitive Shure E500s (if you cannot hear hiss/hum with them, the thing is VERY silent!). The UCA202 is a bargain but the sound quality out if its hp jack is no exactly stellar, and as far as I have seen (well, heard) by now this HOTUSB1 is doing well.

 More to come..._

 

Sorry for auto-quote, but 12 hours later I re-done noise tests and things got same: HOTUSB1 has just a bit of hiss (only audible with the revealing Shure's). 
 More important is I made some SQ tests with just some familiar tracks (flac) and, to my ears and with the Shure as well as a pair of K701 (yes it does drive them to my listening level at least) the HOTUSB1 is the best DAC I have here to use with USB. A word that come to mind is "organic", but is is detailed and complete as well: I am quite happy with my purchase!

 Regards


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is an extra output. I saw your post about the sub output and you having to unplug the sub to plug in your headphones so I took the liberty of adding an extra output.... I hope you don't mind...._

 

I LOVE IT! Thanks!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *josep* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 My HOTUSB1 arrived this morning: perfect packaging and quite fast shipping btw. It worked flawlessly and everything was ok, even if a quick look inside showed a construction far from, er, neat. 

 But it is fine: a quick comparo to my three references here showed it has less hiss than the M-Audio Transit and the (noisy) Yulong DAH1Mark, but just a tiny bit more than the Behringer UCA202 (almost totaly silent). This, using the really very sensitive Shure E500s (if you cannot hear hiss/hum with them, the thing is VERY silent!). The UCA202 is a bargain but the sound quality out if its hp jack is no exactly stellar, and as far as I have seen (well, heard) by now this HOTUSB1 is doing well.

 More to come..._

 

I agree about the Behringer UCA202 - the thing is very quiet, and quieter with 117db.mw IEM than the Macbook HP out, but the sound quality is worse than Macbook and barely able to keep up with a 5.5G ipod video (maybe worse).


----------



## ddoingwell

HeadphoneAddict;5311057 said:
			
		

> Larry, I'm wondering if you've heard any HotAudio40 products? I'd send you mine for a review but I'm in New Zealand right now...
> 
> Good to see you in this thread though.
> 
> ...


----------



## BBF3

What would the HOTUSB1 be best suited for in the Senn HD series? Will it to do justice to 600's or 650's or is a 555 or 595 a better a match?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

ddoingwell;5314065 said:
			
		

> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


----------



## hotaudio40

I heard the 595s were unbelievable with the HOTUSB1, I believe the others work very well too, but I have received very favorable feedback about the 595 - HOTUSB1 match-up.

 hotaudio40


----------



## nowickia

Well I just won one of the Mark IVs on ebay. Unfortunately I won't get to use it until I get back to the US on Feb. 16th. I'll post about it that week once I've used it.


----------



## WC Annihilus

Anyone tried the Mark IV with JVC HA-RX900s? I'm currently running mine from the headphone out of a Pioneer VSX 818v receiver (connected to computer via onboard optical). Any ideas on how these would compare?


----------



## Danielj

Hello all An update on my Mark IV

 I have about 15 hrs on it so far, feeding a tripath speaker amp and it is doing quite nicely. Yesterday, I plugged in my senn 580 headphones into the mini jack. It was way too loud...had to adjust the vol. on my laptop. I was not impressed with the SQ; I think setting the vol. via software just doesnt yield good results. I was not disappointed as I bought the Mark IV mainly as a dac for my speaker amp.

 Right betore bed last night, i thought Id try the dac hooked into my portable headphone amp; a xenos epc..I ended up staying up for quite a while. I was blown away with the dynamics, body, clarity, and just plain musicality of the Mark IV when used as a source for my headphone amp. I have been using the amp and headphone for a couple of years with two pretty good daps; a sony hd5 and Iaudio x5; the Mark IV as source dac brought everything up several notches...my music never sounded so good.

 For the price, I think the Mark Iv exceels as a standalone dac, not so much as a dac/headphone amp...some of Hotaudio's other products probably will do better in the latter case.

 I want to ask Dave if both the rca and the mini jack are outputing the exact same signal.. If they are, the Mark IV is a one box solution for a system that employs both a speaker amp and a headphone amp

 ps to the guy who asked if the asio driver from the echo indigo would work; I was not successful with that approach. I may try asio 4 all or maybe at some point buy the usbasio. But for right now the mkIV is gooding great using just directsound.

 blessings Dan


----------



## pankkake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I heard the 595s were unbelievable with the HOTUSB1, I believe the others work very well too, but I have received very favorable feedback about the 595 - HOTUSB1 match-up.

 hotaudio40_

 

That's exactly what I have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I am satisfied with it right now, however it's only been a few hours.
 It works pretty well - and it works under Linux, that's one of the main reasons I chose it (I'm aware that pretty much all USB DACs should work with Linux, but some are not and I didn't want to take a risk).

 I feel like I miss an hardware volume changer, though. But after setting a few keyboard hotkeys or my tux droid remote to change the volume it will almost be as practical.


----------



## the_dong146

Is it correct to say that the USB cable used for the HotUSB1 is a "male to male"? - really not much of a cable expert...


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_dong146* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it correct to say that the USB cable used for the HotUSB1 is a "male to male"? - really not much of a cable expert..._

 

yes


----------



## Headdie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I showed you "secret creations" then they wouldn't be secrets now would they 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Without hunting for secrets, I'm looking for a quite simple thing I guess : a USB DAC with RCA in, RCA out, and of course... headphone out !

 I want to use my laptop as a DSP. The signal would come to the "HotBox" from my stereo receiver through the RCA in, then go to the laptop via USB, then be processed, then back to the "HotBox" via USB again, and finally back to the stereo receiver with RCA out (or simply to the headphone out)... Something like that on the table? Thanks,


----------



## hotaudio40

Do you mean like a combo stereo ADC (analogue to digital converter) and DAC (digital to analogue converter).

 Yes I do make one of those but I don't provide any software.

 It works just like a external USB sound card with stereo inputs and stereo outputs.

 I use it with software like "soundforge".

 You can find it online at my online store.

*OH, it doesn't use RCAs but instead uses 3.5mm jacks for inputs and outputs.*

 hotaudio40


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headdie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Without hunting for secrets, I'm looking for a quite simple thing I guess : a USB DAC with RCA in, RCA out, and of course... headphone out !

 I want to use my laptop as a DSP. The signal would come to the "HotBox" from my stereo receiver through the RCA in, then go to the laptop via USB, then be processed, then back to the "HotBox" via USB again, and finally back to the stereo receiver with RCA out (or simply to the headphone out)... Something like that on the table? Thanks,_

 

So from *digital *(CD or mp3) *to analog* (reciver)*to digital *(DAC to pc)to (dac) *analog* (reciver) again?

 This won't help the SQ, no matter how much you prosess it.
 You would need a DAC and a ADC as Dave said, he got it. ---> HotAudio


----------



## Headdie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I do make one of those but I don't provide any software. It works just like a external USB sound card with stereo inputs and stereo outputs. I use it with software like "soundforge"._

 

Thanks for your quick reply ! That could be it, but...

 1. I don't know Soundforge... I currently use XLUTOP Chainer, a DX and VST Chainer. Would it function with ASIO4ALL and a standalone VST chainer like XLUTOP?

 2. The sound of this DAC-ADC compares to which of your other DAC amp? I'd like to read a bit of what others say about it. BTW, I have a Denon D2000 and a Beyerdynamic DT990-600 ohms.

 3. Would you customize it with two analog outs? It would be more convenient with one for my stereo receiver and the other for my headphones.


----------



## Headdie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paara* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So from *digital *(CD or mp3) *to analog* (reciver)*to digital *(DAC to pc)to (dac) *analog* (reciver) again_

 

I'd rather say from analog tuner, to digital for processing, and back to analog for listening. The DSP is not to improve the sound fidelity, but to experiment with sound effects.

 Now, you make me think about something I forgot : Would it be possible to use it as an analog headphone amplifier only, bypassing the ADC-DAC section ?


----------



## hotaudio40

No, that particular DAC - ADC doesn't have an analogue feed-through.

 It just does digital conversion in to the PC and digital conversion out of the PC via the USB port.


----------



## Wenglish

Just as a quick heads up post, I'm still alive and plan on getting a review of the amp up soon. The last two weeks have been a whirlwind: came down with bronchitis, a pipe burst in my apartment, semester started, and a lot of sub calls. 

 I think I've listened to maybe four hours of music this past week? It's pretty awful.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wenglish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just as a quick heads up post, I'm still alive and plan on getting a review of the amp up soon. The last two weeks have been a whirlwind: came down with bronchitis, a pipe burst in my apartment, semester started, and a lot of sub calls. 

 I think I've listened to maybe four hours of music this past week? It's pretty awful._

 

Hi Wenglish

 Hope you are well or better now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am stuck in Poland, with 8 more days left of my semester. While my new DAC supreme is waiting for me back in Norway, just waiting for its first digital-analogue mastering. Frustrating...

 Looking forward to a review, I'll try to type something as well.


----------



## goober-george

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pankkake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's exactly what I have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I am satisfied with it right now, however it's only been a few hours.
 It works pretty well - and it works under Linux, that's one of the main reasons I chose it (I'm aware that pretty much all USB DACs should work with Linux, but some are not and I didn't want to take a risk).

 I feel like I miss an hardware volume changer, though. But after setting a few keyboard hotkeys or my tux droid remote to change the volume it will almost be as practical._

 

I also own the HD-595 can you explain what improvements you've noticed?


----------



## Wenglish

First, let me state that someone with more listening and reviewing experience would do a much better job than me. So if this review is no good it's their fault because they didn't do a review first (and thus make my review obsolete before I even wrote it).

 After some intensive, extended (and a lot more inattentive, sporadic) listening, here are my thoughts on Dave’s TPA6120a2 portable amp w/ digital volume and balance control. 

 I’m going to start with negatives, because frankly, that’s a short list.

 My first complaint: no power LED. I knew that there wasn't one when I ordered and it's not all that hard to remember to turn the amp off when you're not using it. But with an LED it'd be easier to tell with a quick glance if the unit was powered on.

 I don’t have much to say on battery life mainly because I haven’t paid enough attention to it. The Panasonic 9v that shipped with the amp didn’t last 24 hours, I can’t say exactly when it died, but it stopped playing sometime while I was asleep (which was after the 16 hour mark). The 280mah 9vs I have last a while, but I haven’t had that much listening time of late. I can’t really complain as I have enough time to charge a 9v before I need to swap it out, but if you’re looking for an amp that’s going to last 200 hours then you’ll be disappointed. 

 Other than that, the only negative I have about this amp is that with my JVC HA-RX700s there is a noticeable hiss throughout the volume range. I did not have this hiss with my Ultrasone HFI 2200s. I made a post specifically about this earlier in the thread, but the short hand version is that it’s a non-issue for practical listening for me. 

 On the positive side of things let me restate my happiness with the build quality. The battery slot, while not overly snug, fits my oversized rechargables nicely (so no worries about not being able to fit those slightly oversized 9v batteries in). No complaints about the battery door, jacks, or volume pot, either. 

 Also, to reinforce another one of my previous statements—I can’t detect any channel imbalance at lower volume levels. I find myself using the amp as my sole volume control, which is quite nice for late night listening/lazy people like me who don’t want to move to adjust the volume. 

 And now for the part that everyone really cares about, how this amp sounds. 

 As for listening notes…well, the majority of my listening is with my 2200s. They are better than the JVCs in every facet (except in isolation, but that’s open vs. closed). And given their price difference that’s how it should be. 

 I plugged the JVCs straight into the HotUSB1, put on Blitzkrieg (I’ve been on an old school kick), and get a nice, clean sound. The DAC does a great job over my onboard sound; I have a review a few pages back in the thread. It feels like the recording has some breathing room but the bottom end is lacking any real power, the highs are a bit bland, and the mids have a hollow quality (which really isn’t a quality at all). 

 Plugging them into the amp (leaving the amp at default ½ volume) brings about a definite change. It feels like I’ve moved up a few rows, the music is closer. Bottom end still lacks a real kick, but it’s got more power (without becoming boomy or messy, it just has an actual presence now). The highs have maybe a tad more sparkle to them, nothing to write home about, but these are cheapo cans. Most importantly the mids don’t sound so hollow—they’re not liquid, they’re not viscous, but they just sound much more there. 

 I’ve been A/Bing Nocturnal Vision. The intro has some nice drum fills and bass guitar; the latter half of the song has this great Motorhead-inspired driving riff. The amp really improves how the JVCs handle the song.

 Switching over to the 2200s—and sticking with Nocturnal Vision because I like the song—the HotUSB1 alone presents a better sound than the JVCs with the amp. It’s not nearly as loud—the HotUSB1 alone can’t quite drive the 2200s to loud volumes, but a good sound nonetheless. For the intro the cymbals have a great sparkle, the drums sound great and varied. The bass guitar lacks distinction in the intro, though. For the second half of the song the guitars are a bit flat, and the bass guitar is a little buried, but that’s more of me looking for things to complain about. 

 Adding in the amp and the intro sounds much better—the drums sound about the same, but now there’s more definition and separation for the bass guitar. The amp really helps with the second half of the song—the bass driven riff sounds much more up front and alive and to me that’s not a bad thing—this is heavy metal; it’s supposed to be in your face. The soundstage doesn’t change as much with the 2200s, I feel, but that could just be the S-logic presentation making itself felt. 

 This amp and the 2200s make for some tight, punchy (but not boomy or muddy) bass. I can’t call it head slam—but putting on Dark Eternal Night off the latest Dream Theater really comes close to it. Overall I'd say that the mids and highs seem a little warm. 

 The only thing I haven’t mentioned yet is price. I got mine shipped to my door for around $70 from one of the auctions David is running—and for $70 I really can’t complain. There just isn’t much competition at that price point (Gary’s pa2v2 comes to mind, and then there are DIY projects). 

 I wish I had some other amps around to make some comparisons with. Eventually, I’ll get them and make comparisons. Until then, I’ll just enjoy this amp because it’s doing quite nicely for me.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wenglish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_REVIEW_

 

Thanks Wenglish


----------



## hotaudio40

I think that is a very honest and informative review!

 Thanks very much!

 I appreciate you taking the time to do that and hope your feeling better so you can listen to more music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hotaudio40


----------



## Pariah1

I'd like to just chime in here and say that although I decided to buy another DAC then the HOTAUDIO SUPREME PCM2702 (the Blue Circle Audio Thingee based on my preference for the more nuetral sound that it is supposed to have compared to the descriptions I have read of Dave's more "warm" sounding DACs), I emailed Dave with some questions about his DACs and he quickly responded and gave informative answers. Though the Blue Circle Audio dealer I ordered from did give me detailed responses to my emails I sent them as well, they weren't as quick in response. In fact, having bought various audio gear from Usher speakers to vintage recievers to headphones to PMP's over the past few years from audio dealers and ebay merchants and thus dealing with many sellers, I have to say that Dave was the best with customer service, even though I didn't buy anything from him! 

 I have a week to try out my Thingee when it comes, and if I do not care for its sound I will send it back and buy the PCM2702 from Dave, as it was and is my second choice. And I may have to buy one in the future anyway even if I like the Thingee, just to hear what it has to offer!

 So thanks to Dave for excellent customer service, even to a (as of now) non-customer!


----------



## hotaudio40

Hey "customers" are my bread and butter and I treat them the same way that I'd want to be treated, sometimes better then I treat myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, Thanks!

 A little off topic, 

 Today I was testing a DAC with a new amp set up.

 I was using an old "HI-FI NEWS TEST DISC".

 Well I was having a blast with track #13 which is a wicked drum type riff, but I made a mistake...

 I hit one of the upper tracks by accident...

 All the upper tracks are sine waves and as fate would have it, the track I happened upon was a like 15k sine wave but unfortunately it played at the same volume that I was listening to the Drum riff at...

 So I smoked both my tweeters in about a 1/4 of a second!

 At first I had thought I had smoked my upper hearing, as I was sitting pretty close the speakers when they fried...

 But no, my hearing is intact 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 at least most of it is...

 So basically what I would like to know is:

 Can I get replacement tweeters ( Part # d26tf-06 ) or am I pretty much SOL ???

 Of course I looked on google, but I couldn't find anything. I know there must be a replacement or something close.

 If anyone knows of a suitable replacement, and something within a budget, as I'm still on a pretty tight budget, I'd like to hear what a good replacement would be or perhaps maybe I should just go with a whole new set of speakers.

 So be warned!!!

 Never use a test CD with your amp cranked right up as it is a pretty simple thing to select the wrong track and blow your speakers to bits!!!

 hotaudio40


----------



## Bherserk

Just got my supreme, and even though it's only got 12 minutes on it I like it already. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can only join in on the recommendations of hotaudio, the customer experience is great.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So basically what I would like to know is:

 Can I get replacement tweeters ( Part # d26tf-06 ) or am I pretty much SOL ???_

 

Might want to try Vifa - Contact us 
 ask if they have some laying around


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bherserk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my supreme, and even though it's only got 12 minutes on it I like it already. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can only join in on the recommendations of hotaudio, the customer experience is great._

 


 If this is the tweeter you have: 










 Spec: Nominal Impedance6 Ohm
 Nominal Power (IEC 268-5)90W
 Frequency range3-30kHz
 Sensitivity88dB
 Effective Diaphram7.1 cm2
 Voice Coil Resistance4.6 Ohm
 Operating power6.4W
 Voice coil Diameter26mm
 Voice coil Height1.6mm
 Air gap height2mm
 Free air resonance1500 Hz
 Moving Mass0.27g
 Force factor2.3 Txm
 Magnet weight104g

 They sell them here: Vifa items main 
 and here http://diyparadiso.com/price/stock-speakers.htm (Vifa D26TF-05/06 dometweeter)


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bherserk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my supreme, and even though it's only got 12 minutes on it I like it already. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can only join in on the recommendations of hotaudio, the customer experience is great._

 

Daves supremes are popular amongst the Norwegians


----------



## hotaudio40

Hey thanks allot!!!
 Those are my tweeters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How did you find that ???

 I looked all over google and couldn't find them...

 Do you have inside connections 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, I will check them out for sure, but now I'm thinking I may totally upgrade my PSBs, even though I really enjoyed them, my neighbor, who happens to be a HUGE speaker buff, and has been making his own speaker boxes since he was a kid, says he will take them off my hands 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, then again, they sound very nice too me, so I may end up keeping them.

 It's the classic case of do I spend the money on the fix, or do I do a complete upgrade and perhaps use them for mid-range, as they do sound very nice without the tweeters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks so much for your help again,
 Now I have options!

 And yes.... I do sell allot of my 'Supremes' to Norway... 

 Who would have thought!

 Hotaudio40


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey thanks allot!!!
 Those are my tweeters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hotaudio40 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No inside connections. Just lucky I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I thought I would try to help, since you are so kind to your customers.
 Just happy to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To keep or upgrade is always the same conundrum, and usually ends up with an upgrade if you first get the idea into your head (at least it is that way for me)

 3 more days to I can test my own DAC supreme


----------



## LaserWolf

hey all. so sorry I haven't posted an in depth review of my Hotusb1 yet, I'm back in school now and so I haven't really had the time. anyway. I love the sound of it and I've been comparing it to some of the pro gear that my school has and I must say that it really holds it's own. I have one quick question though. would it be safe to plug powered speakers into the Hotusb1. I've been listening to it so much that I don't really want to go back to listening out of my laptop audio so I was thinking of using the hotsub1 since it has a dac in it. any info would be much appreciated.
 Thanks


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, it is totally safe to plug the HOTUSB1 into POWERED speakers or any other high impedance device, like a receivers input ( CD or AUX ), or even directly into a Power Amplifiers line inputs.

 Just never connect it directly to speakers or any load lower then 16 ohms!

 Typically receivers and power amps have input impedances of several thousand, like 10,000 to 50,000 ohms so they are perfectly safe for use with the HOTUSB1 and all my other DACs including my headphone amplifiers as well.

 hotaudio40


----------



## paara

(Blame openoffice for any typos and poor English 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 Landed back home in Norway 3 hours ago and I finally got to play with my DAC supreme.

 The DAC came in a small box, but seemed well protected and was unharmed.

 I have only seen pictures of the DAC supreme on HotAudio.com, and I thought the DAC would not be as solid and well put together as it is. I think it is small, clean and good looking. 
 Pictures will be added later, because I seem to have forgotten my cable. 

 Equipment:
 HP: HD600 with standard cable 
 Amp: Head direct EF-1
 Source: Foobar2000 and iTunes using Flac and 320kb mp3 respectively
 Interconnections: Kimber silver streak / Tara Labs RSC reference

 This is a short initial impression review:
 The DAC has only been playing for 1 hour now, but I am already very satisfied by the level of details. I hear “things” in my favorite tracks that I have not noticed before. The sound is also much more open and airy. It also improved the sound stage of my HD600 slightly (I regard sound stage of the HD600 as its biggest Achilles' heel and it is only so much a DAC can do about it).

 I was a bit worried that the DAC would color the sound too much, even though I prefer dark rather then bright sound I do not fancy the thought of a DAC that adds to much. Dave describes the DAC supreme as a bit dark (am I right?), I would describe it as neutral to maybe a tiny tint of “the darkness” 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 more neutral then dark. Which I think is perfect! But it has not been burned in yet, so I will try to listen closely for any changes as the DAC matures. I am not a big believer that “burning in” changes the sound signature in any drastic manner, but I will try to see if I can notice any changes. 

 I'll add more later. But for now it is me, foobar, supreme, EF-1 and HD600 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stian


----------



## Wenglish

Thanks for the impressions.

 If you remove the EF-1, how would you describe the sound from just the dac? I doubt it would do very well with the HD600s, but the D2000s should work fine, no? Or were those impressions without the EF-1? 

 As for the dac burning in, I can't say that I saw much change out of my HotUSB1 after the first hour or so. Out of my Ultrasones, however, their was a huge difference. But that's apples and oranges. 

 Enjoy the dac!


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wenglish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the impressions.

 If you remove the EF-1, how would you describe the sound from just the dac? I doubt it would do very well with the HD600s, but the D2000s should work fine, no? Or were those impressions without the EF-1? 

 As for the dac burning in, I can't say that I saw much change out of my HotUSB1 after the first hour or so. Out of my Ultrasones, however, their was a huge difference. But that's apples and oranges. 

 Enjoy the dac!_

 

Hi

 That was how I felt the sound changed when I added the DAC. I haven't had much time listening to it yet, so I'll be more specific later. 

 I'll try to remove the EF-1 later on, but as you said, the HD600 need some power to be controlled properly.

 I cant test the D2000, because it is at Lawton audio getting new cups, cord and a markl mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stian


----------



## paara

Pictures of the DAC supreme:


----------



## hotaudio40

Well Yes....

 I'd say the supreme is very neutral... , but I tried to give it just a little warmth, without going over the edge and still remaining as accurate as possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As far as burn-in goes...

 I'd say I never believed in it until I heard myself.

 But sometimes I burn the DACs in before I ship them and sometimes I only run them for an hour or so.

 I keep DACs burning in as much as possible. 

 It is part of my testing and quality assurance program 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But some DACs don't get as much time as others, so on those DACs you'll notice a big difference in warmth and clarity.

 Thanks for the pictures!

 I love when my stuff gets this much attention!

 It can be a bit nerve racking, but I learn from all the feedback!

 All comments, and even critique is totally welcome!

 hotaudio40


----------



## myk7000

anyone ever compare the hotusb1 to ibasso d2 or total bithead?


----------



## Zaubertuba

Hi there! I'm just getting my HTPC running, so I've been reading this thread on hotaudio's work with great interest. I realize I may not immediately realize that much benefit from an external DAC because my phones are pretty basic (Sennheiser HD-202's), but I'm expecting to upgrade in the near future. Two quick questions:

 1.) In my particular application, my listening location is across the room from my HTPC, so I'm looking at about a 25-foot cable run, considering I have to make it pretty for the wife--i.e. no cables strewn straight across the floor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Looks like the max length spec. for USB2 is approx. 16 feet.  I haven't seen any of hotaudio's offerings with S/PDIF inputs, so I'm wondering if there's an elegant way to make that long a USB run--seems risky when the units are getting their power from the USB bus--am I correct in assuming that? Will the increased length cause signal degradation/other electrical problems? Would an active solution (i.e. USB hub or extender) even work? Should I just be looking at a DAC with S/Pdif/coaxial inputs instead?

 ...oh, that's already more than two questions--and not very quick. 

 ...5.) How would these do driving the Grado SR-80 or SR-125's? (Impedance on both of these is 32 ohms)


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, the USB spec says no more then 15 foot USB cable runs...

 I have heard a few guys using USB hubs without any noise issues.

 But I would like someone to try a wireless USB hub and see how that sounds.

 I've never tried either as I just use the standard 6 foot USB cable, but I know for a fact that the wired USB hubs work fine.

 I'm sure it does depend on the quality of the hub as the USB DAC does get its' power from the USB hub.

 But so far nobody has mentioned that adding a HUB makes any noise difference....

 The units really like ALL 32 ohm headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My amps and dacs LOVE Grado and Sennheiser equipment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Somebody please try the wireless USB hub...

 Doesn't matter with what DAC, they all pretty much would work the same as far as power supply issues and perhaps dropouts go.

 Somebody give it a try and get back.

 I'd do it myself, but I really have no need for a wireless USB hub at this time.

 Thanks!
 hotaudio40


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

At home and at work, I run a MarkIV through a 7-port powered USB hub...not to extend the distance, but rather to free up a USB port on my computer or dock.

 Regarding powered speakers: At home, my M-Audio DX4s have responded with greater clarity and volume. At work, my M-Audio StudioPro 3s are likewise powered through a MarkIV, but I the 3s were so clear to begin with that I can't be sure how much to credit the MarkIV. Besides, I scarcely ever play through the speakers because I share an office with two colleagues.


----------



## hotaudio40

Oooo, I got me some IEMs coming... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm so excited...

 These are nice Panasonic RP-HJE550S

Panasonic - HeadSets - Lightweight - RP-HJE550S

 Now I can get into the IEM game 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gonna make me a small IEM class A amp...

 Wait for it....

 hotaudio40


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oooo, I got me some IEMs coming... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm so excited...

 These are nice Panasonic RP-HJE550S

Panasonic - HeadSets - Lightweight - RP-HJE550S

 Now I can get into the IEM game 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gonna make me a small IEM class A amp...

 Wait for it....

 hotaudio40_

 

Nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 congrats 

 Just be sure that you ALWAYS have everything turned down when you put them on.

 I have made that mistake twice, and it hurts.
 So be careful especially if you test it with one of your 150mV DAC's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stian

 (haven't had time to tests what you suggested in your mail, but I guess you gonne do it now anyway)


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, well these are not 119 dB, cause that is just insane... 

 They are:
 Impedance: 16 ohms / Sensitivity: 104 dB 

 Which is like 10's of factors different I think...

 but my ears are pretty sensitive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I am going "Hiss Hunting"! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I find any, and I think I will... 
 I will DESTROY it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol

 I looked up the specs on your headphones and the spec that stood out the most was the price... 

 Yikes!!!


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol, well these are not 119 dB, cause that is just insane... 

 They are:
 Impedance: 16 ohms / Sensitivity: 104 dB 

 Which is like 10's of factors different I think...

 but my ears are pretty sensitive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So I am going "Hiss Hunting"! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I find any, and I think I will... 
 I will DESTROY it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol

 I looked up the specs on your headphones and the spec that stood out the most was the price... 

 Yikes!!!_

 

Hehe, the sensitivity is actually a problem as you know.

 Yes they are a bit pricy. And I dont really think they are worth it.

 Good hunting! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ,Stian


----------



## Zaubertuba

Hmm...I might be able to make the run with one USB hub in the middle, then. Maybe I can disguise it in a basket on the mantle. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Poking around just a bit, I'm seeing maybe why nobody's used these with wireless, yet. Just a few threads on here and elsewhere seem to suggest that wireless USB doesn't work so well with audio. I don't know why that would be--it's just a data stream, right? Anyway, even looking at wireless, it starts to get awfully "fiddley" when you start looking at various implementations. I can't help thinking this conflicts with the "simpler is better" design concept of your DACs.

 Just curious--is that why all your DAC's are USB? A lot simpler taking the power off the bus then having to come up with a clean power stage? Have you ever experimented with S/PDIF or other interfaces?


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, it is possible wireless USB may have timing issues that may interfere with a clean audio stream, but on the other hand that's what they are designed for.... USB data transfer...

 I'd imagine the newer models would have some kind of buffer to make sure the data timing is right....

 But I really haven't tried it myself...

 My DACs all use USB because I figure that is the most common and the future of audio will for sure be from the PC.

 I have NO spdif input devices, but I have a few the output spdif like my CD player.

 My chips all come with the ability to output spdif, but I don't use it, due more to a space issue then anything else.

 Also the more I add to the boards the longer they take me to build.

 As all my products are hand made, it takes several hours in some cases to make a unit, whereas in an assembly line running SMT machines, the time per unit could be only a few minutes if even that.

 When I worked on a assembly line we were responsible for 400 phones an hour....

 I might make 2 or 3 amps a day, any more and I suffer from migraines as these devices use very tiny parts and my eyes can only handle so much....

 So adding a spdif isn't really an issue, it is just fitting it in a box and a time issue.

 And also a price issue...

 Is anyone really willing to pay the extra money it would cost for me to put a spdif output on my DACs ???

 From my experience I really doubt it would be worth my time.

 And also I'm already providing the best possible sound out of your PC to analogue, so why would you want the spdif data ??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could see making a DAC with spdif input, but then it can't run off a PC.

 I have a few chips with spdif inputs as well and someday I'll hook one up see how it sounds...

 hotaudio40


----------



## Zaubertuba

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My DACs all use USB because I figure that is the most common and the future of audio will for sure be from the PC._

 

Perhaps, but the distance limitation will have to be dealt with--people are already trying to figure out how to stream their audio into different rooms in the house.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So adding a spdif isn't really an issue, it is just fitting it in a box and a time issue._

 

Being time-constrained myself, I can appreciate that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could see making a DAC with spdif input, but then it can't run off a PC._

 

Actually, I bought my most recent motherboard with S/PDIF out, so it is possible.

 After researching a bit, it's hard to say USB is a clear winner of S/PDIF. Search the web and you find a lot of conflicting viewpoints. Chris over at computeraudiophile.com did a pretty nice article about the issue:USB v. S/PDIF | Computer Audiophile

 All sonic things appearing to be equal (at least for the moment), it comes down to a matter of form-factor. For my application, S/PDIF wins out, because nobody blinks at the idea doing of a 25' run (or longer) on 75-Ohm digital coaxial cable.

 So, trying to get back on-topic *looks nervously over at the forum mod.* ...I guess I _would_ spend more for a box with S/PDIF input. Whether or not I can actually swing it, though, is another matter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again for the reply--I can see why everyone on this thread raves about your customer service. It's a pleasure just speaking with you on the forum.


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, what would win over...

 SPDIF vs. USB or something similar...

 Here is my thought.

 Because SPDIF is optical it has the potential for unlimited data transfer making idea for any communication medium.

 BUT, and this is big but...

 You can't get power from an optical cable....

 So usb has the ability to remote power devices WITHOUT the need for costly and additional components.

 So probably computers will end up with both an optical and a type of USB that has the ability to power devices.

 Having the ability to power devices is a very important function.

 Probably what will end up happening is a new line will come out with optical AND the two power supply lines.

 Then you get the best of both worlds.

 Power and the ability to transfer data at ANY speed to pretty much any practical distance.


 Although, I have a theory that because the chips have more and more pins. 

 Like the processors now have hundreds of pins and will have even more in the future.

 The PCB boards are saturated.

 And the only way around this is either couple the chips (like cpu, ram, etc.) by optical, or more likely, by a very short range wireless signal.

 And that will open up a whole new ball game for designers like me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BECAUSE, the chips will all talk to each other and only have the two power supply lines....

 All data will be transmitted wirelessly.

 And after that they will do away with the power supply lines and make the chips work the same way as those tracking chips in animals work with a resonance circuit that gets activated by electromagnetic fields. (pulses).

 THEN you won't need any tracks or wires.

 Just place the chips you want on the board. Well you wouldn't really even need a board, you could throw them all in a box together 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And they will all talk and communicate with each other.

 And at the heart of the system will be this very small power supply that outputs pulses of energy that the chips pick up on ( Probably will do the timing as well, like a clock, crystal )

 It will power them up and get the whole thing rolling....

 And just before they go completely to wireless.

 They will use a kinda USB - Optical hybrid cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll even tell you what it will look like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It will look exactly like a fiber optical cable and will even work with fiber optics because it will be the same size and have a fiber optic core, just like the cables we use now.

 The difference will be that it will have two shields.
 One will be the voltage, and the other will be the ground ( the outside one will be ground of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

 Remember, you heard it here first! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 lol, well I really got ahead of myself there...

 I think it's going to be an R&D day!

 hotaudio40


----------



## buldogge

Hey hotaudio40... Quick question:

 Is it all right to leave my 'DAC The Destroyer' plugged in to the USB port at all times or do I need to unplug it when I'm not listening to headphones?

 TIA
 Mark in St. Louis


----------



## hotaudio40

Well it is alright to leave it plugged in. 

 But I actually don't recommend leaving anything plugged in when your not around.

 It's just common sense as I'm a big believer in saving electricity as well as not taking chances of any kind.

 So I'd unplug it when your not around.

 That's what I would do.

 It won't hurt it if you leave it plugged in though.

 It is basically up to you.


----------



## rx7mark

Hi this is my first post, even though I have been lurking for a few months.

 Just wanted to say that because of this thread I purchased the TPA6120a2 Based Headphone Amplifier with Alps Digital Volume from Dave. I have only had it a week and it is still burning in, but initial impression are very positive even though I don't have much to compare it to.

 But I can already tell a large improvement in dynamics and base control and enough improvement in detail that I am busily upgrading all my MP3 files to at least 320bps. I will need a better storage solution before I can go lossless.

 And I can also confirm the great customer service and E-mail responces from Dave. It was a pleasure to purchase from him.

 I will add Pics and further impressions as the burn in continues and I get some better files to listen to.

 Mark


----------



## Okenezak

Just ordered a HOTUSB1 a few minutes ago, looking forward to it after all the great comments in this thread.

 Thanks for the feedback everyone!


----------



## hotaudio40

Hey everyone, be careful, your gonna give me a big ego 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for all the comments!

 I have the BEST customers!

 Hey and I got myself a new set of tweeters today....

 They just happen to have wooden boxes around them and a couple of 6.5 inch drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some Sony towers, and so far so good, and the price was amazing!

 Interestingly the sound is completely different from my PSBs....

 It is amazing how much one component changes the sound of the WHOLE system...

 These speakers are not as bright as the PSBs and probably not as accurate, but then again they've only got a few hours on them, and were a 1/4 the price, so we'll see....

 I almost smoked these already too!

 So once again, be warned !!! 

 MAKE SURE ALL YOUR VOLUMES ARE TURNED DOWN , ESPECIALLY ON THE POWER AMPLIFIER!!!! BEFORE YOU LISTEN TO MUSIC....

 That sounds obvious, BUT, it can happen so easily and bye bye tweeters.....

 Luckily these tweeters are still tweeting and I'm sure Sony thought that might happen and somehow protected them, perhaps that's why they don't sound as bright....

 hotaudio40


----------



## hotaudio40

Just a small note:

*When making a purchase from my store website or my evilbay website...

 MAKE SURE YOUR ADDRESS IS CORRECT IN PAYPAL !!!

 DON'T MAKE THE PAYMENT UNTIL YOUR ADDRESS IS CORRECT!!!*

 I often ship within 1/2 hour of a purchase, and I ship to the payment address associated with the paypal payment!

 Thanks very much!


----------



## NilsenNorway

Really looking forward to beeing able to order my hotusb. I see its on sale now, but im just gonna have to wait for my next paycheck at the end of the month 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What is the name of the DAC chip in the hotusb?


----------



## Okenezak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NilsenNorway* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really looking forward to beeing able to order my hotusb. I see its on sale now, but im just gonna have to wait for my next paycheck at the end of the month 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What is the name of the DAC chip in the hotusb?_

 

The DAC chip is a PCM2705.


----------



## NilsenNorway

Thx


----------



## gsawdy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, what would win over...

 SPDIF vs. USB or something similar...

 Here is my thought.

 Because SPDIF is optical it has the potential for unlimited data transfer making idea for any communication medium.

 BUT, and this is big but...

 You can't get power from an optical cable....
 hotaudio40_

 

I'm stilll trying to figure out how I'm going to arrange things so I haven't heard your DAC yet. But if it is as good as comments seem to suggest, you should figure out how to build it with a SPDIF input (usb not needed) and a 5v supply needed. There is a large installed base of Slim Devices/Logitech Squeezeboxes. They run off a 5v wallwart which you could steal a little power from. AND if you price it low and it is good you could sell a ton of DAC upgrades. There are many people who spend $300 for an SB3 and then hook up a $500-2000 DAC to the digital outs. Even if your dac can't compete with a Benchmark or Lavry, if it is clearly better than the SB3 dac there is a huge market. Something to think about. 

 George


----------



## mudhole

Hi hotaudio40:
 Do you have a standalone USB DAC or a USB DAC+amp with standalone DAC function?


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, I just made a pure DAC with NO buffer.

 So it can NOT be used with headphones as the line outs are taken right off the DAC.

 I call it the "DAC STRAIGHT".

 It is on evilbay right now. 
 I just listed it.

 It can ONLY be used as a source for feeding amps, and receivers.

 And can only be used with loads HIGHER THEN 5,000 OHMS.

 I wanted to hear PURE DAC sound from my normally buffered "SUPREME".

 So I built one.

 It has a VERY neutral, very accurate sound.

 Do a search on evilbay for "DAC STRAIGHT" that should take you there.

 Thanks very much!
 hotaudio40


----------



## cegras

So this will work with headphone amplifiers, hotaudio?


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, it will work with pretty much any amplifier


----------



## hotaudio40

Hey I got to thinking, If I'm going to take the signal right off the DAC...

 Why don't I eliminate the output capacitors too....

 Then there is NO caps in the Audio signal of the DAC.

 Now this WON"T WORK if your amplifier is DC coupled, but as far as I know, 99.9% of amps are AC coupled.

 I do make DC coupled amplifiers, in fact all my TPA6120 models are DC coupled now, so you CAN NOT use this DC coupled DAC with my high-end headphone amps... at least not in DC mode.

 But you can use it with just about all other amps as far as I know.

 You'd have to check the specs on your amplifier or look at the schematic to see if the inputs are AC coupled.

 Chances are they are.

 In this model, NOT THE ONE ABOVE, that one is AC coupled...

 I put a switch, to select AC or DC output coupling of the DAC.

 It seems to work fine with the amps I've tried, but I know that they have AC coupled inputs.

 I'm going to call it the "DAC STRAIGHT DUAL MODE"

 It is built, just not listed anywhere till testing is finished.

 hotaudio40


----------



## mudhole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I just made a pure DAC with NO buffer.

 So it can NOT be used with headphones as the line outs are taken right off the DAC.

 I call it the "DAC STRAIGHT".


 And can only be used with loads HIGHER THEN 5,000 OHMS.

 Ihotaudio40_

 

What do you mean "can only be used with loads HIGHER THEN 5,000 OHMS"?
 Can I use it to feed my Little Dot MKIII?

 And what's the chips inside, I can not find any info from your ebay discreption.


----------



## mudhole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey I got to thinking, If I'm going to take the signal right off the DAC...

 Why don't I eliminate the output capacitors too....

 Then there is NO caps in the Audio signal of the DAC.

 Now this WON"T WORK if your amplifier is DC coupled, but as far as I know, 99.9% of amps are AC coupled.

 I do make DC coupled amplifiers, in fact all my TPA6120 models are DC coupled now, so you CAN NOT use this DC coupled DAC with my high-end headphone amps... at least not in DC mode.

 But you can use it with just about all other amps as far as I know.

 You'd have to check the specs on your amplifier or look at the schematic to see if the inputs are AC coupled.

 Chances are they are.

 In this model, NOT THE ONE ABOVE, that one is AC coupled...

 I put a switch, to select AC or DC output coupling of the DAC.

 It seems to work fine with the amps I've tried, but I know that they have AC coupled inputs.

 I'm going to call it the "DAC STRAIGHT DUAL MODE"

 It is built, just not listed anywhere till testing is finished.

 hotaudio40_

 

Sorry for my limited electronic knowlege. Frankly, I can't totally understand. I just want to find a affordable decent usb DAC connect my PC(foobar2000) and little dot mKIII amp. Could you please suggest one model for me? Just simple and better SQ.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mudhole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you mean "can only be used with loads HIGHER THEN 5,000 OHMS"?
 Can I use it to feed my Little Dot MKIII?

 And what's the chips inside, I can not find any info from your ebay discreption._

 

It means that you can only use it to feed your amplifier or reciever. (or a 5000+ ohm HP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
 So, yes you can use it for your Little Dot MKIII
 A normal amp has an input impedance around 50,000 ohms 

 If it is an capacitor-less version of the DAC supreme, it uses the PCM2702.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mudhole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for my limited electronic knowlege. Frankly, I can't totally understand. I just want to find a affordable decent usb DAC connect my PC(foobar2000) and little dot mKIII amp. Could you please suggest one model for me? Just simple and better SQ._

 

Well the best DAC depend a little on your budget.

 The DAC DESTROYER and then MARK IV USB DAC use the PCM2705 chip
 HOTAUDIO SUPREME use the PCM2702 

 All of Daves DAC's have a pre out (except HOTUSB 1), so you can use all of them to feed your amp...

 I have the supreme, and I use it to feed a Head-direct EF-1 and I am very pleased with that DAC.
 So the supreme will be a safe bet. 

 Correct me if I am wrong Dave.

 EDIT: . to ,


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes you are very correct, just missing a comma instead of the period 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "A normal amp has an input impedance around 50.000 ohms"

*50.000 should be 50,000 ohms*

 You know more about my stuff then I do...

 lol

 hotaudio40


----------



## Blast

Would I be able to connect the Headphone Amplifier with Alps volume control to a Mark IV DAC for a complete solution?


----------



## hotaudio40

Hey, then I do a little more thinking, and I realize that the DC coupled DAC, the "STRAIGHT DAC DUAL MODE" puts out a DC voltage of half the supply voltage ie 2.5 Volts... That's why you need the DC blocking capacitors in the amplifier...

 Then I think, hmmm, if I made a CLASS A headphone amp that say ran off of 5 Volts...

 I'd want to set the bias around 2.5 volts....

 How convenient...

 I get my 16 ohm 94dB headphones next week...

 Interesting....

 lol


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Blast* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would I be able to connect the Headphone Amplifier with Alps volume control to a Mark IV DAC for a complete solution?_

 

Yes, that is a great combo.

 You may not necessarily need the headphone amp because the MARK IV puts out quite a large voltage swing. Close to 4.3 Volts peak to peak maybe even a little higher.

 The headphone amplifier only gets you a couple more volts, maybe 6 or 7 volts peak to peak, which is probably way too loud.

 The TPA does enhance the sound quality though...
 No doubt about that.

 I use both sometimes, and sometimes I use just the DAC, depends.

 hotaudio40


----------



## mudhole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paara* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It means that you can only use it to feed your amplifier or reciever. (or a 5000+ ohm HP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
 So, yes you can use it for your Little Dot MKIII
 A normal amp has an input impedance around 50.000 ohms 

 If it is an capacitor-less version of the DAC supreme, it uses the PCM2702.



 Well the best DAC depend a little on your budget.

 The DAC DESTROYER and then MARK IV USB DAC use the PCM2705 chip
 HOTAUDIO SUPREME use the PCM2702 

 All of Daves DAC's have a pre out (except HOTUSB 1), so you can use all of them to feed your amp...

 I have the supreme, and I use it to feed a Head-direct EF-1 and I am very pleased with that DAC.
 So the supreme will be a safe bet. 

 Correct me if I am wrong Dave._

 


 Thanks Paara,
 I am going to talk with Dave throw pm. Now I am narrow down to DAC straight and Ibasso D10 which also can benifit my protable rig. But I don't know which is better on the DAC part?
 I know ibasso D10 use a WM8740 chip.


----------



## lowlevelowl

I don't know if the D10 or Supreme is better, I haven't heard the D10 yet.

 But I can say that I am extremely pleased with my Supreme, and Dave is a pleasure to work with. His DACs are handmade in Canada, so you won't have to worry about shipping to China if warranty issues arise, like you would with the D10.

 EDIT: Typos.


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, and they were built by a guy who was a professional trouble shooter for three of the top electronic manufacturers in the USA and Canada, and has seen 10s' of thousands of failures and fixed them all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He was also a quality engineer and process engineer for several years as well...

 So his stuff is built pretty good.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, and they were built by a guy who was a professional trouble shooter for three of the top electronic manufacturers in the USA and Canada, and has seen 10s' of thousands of failures and fixed them all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 He was also a quality engineer and process engineer for several years as well...

 So his stuff is built pretty good._

 

BUT does he speak Chinese? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mudhole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_T...Now I am narrow down to DAC straight and Ibasso D10 which also can benifit my protable rig. But I don't know which is better on the DAC part?
 I know ibasso D10 use a WM8740 chip._

 

Personally I would rather order form someone that I knew I could communicate with properly. 

 I ordered a Darkvoice 336se the other day, directly from Darkvoice (well the whole process of ordering took actually 8 days!) I had problem already during the ordering process, so I am crossing my fingers that the amp will not fail. Because it is probably gonna be a huge hassle if I need to send in back for repair.

 My DAC supreme on the other hand, I _*almost*_ wish it will fail, because it is such a joy to experience Dave's costumer service 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seriously, you should always considered the possibility for a failure, and I know that I would not be worried about Dave's support.

 ,Stian


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, the DAC SUPREME will n***r fail...

 I won't even say that word, I know better then that


----------



## paara

Dave: Have you thought about doing a "fullsize" DAC. Using the pcm1704 or 1794/6 chips? maybe even throw in more then one? To be used in a high end setup? I love my supreme, but wish you had full sized DAC for an amp I am looking at.


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, I have but I want to use the BEST dac possible.

 I have heard so much about a few DACs that I'm not really sure what DAC to choose....

 What DAC is the Best DAC of all DACs ???

 And by best I mean best sounding of course, specs aside.


----------



## dfkt

Did you check out AKM chips? Like the ones used in Echo and RME sound cards: AKM Semiconductor, Inc.: Digital Audio - CODEC - AK4620A

 My AudioFire is certainly the best DAC I heard to date (besides RME). No "audiophile" nonsense, but straight to the point professional quality.


----------



## hotaudio40

It looks like a very nice DAC but unfortunately, it would be hard for me to get as I don't see it listed on any of my suppliers inventories....

 It also has the ADC on-board, which is NOT a bad thing, but it seems nobody is interested in the ADC part....

 Actually I like the PCM chips...

 I've been looking at them allot over the last year...

 I like the looks of the PCM1796...


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It also has the ADC on-board, which is NOT a bad thing, but it seems nobody is interested in the ADC part....._

 

An ADC is nice for people that do recordings, but most people buy or download music. So the need is limited. But it is a nice product to offer.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the looks of the PCM1796..._

 

At least it has some insane specs


----------



## hotaudio40

Oh yes, but I have a DAC with ADC.
 A very nice one too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Based around another fine BURR BROWN chip.

 And funny enough... I've only sold a couple.

 I even have one with a mono MIKE input with a 20dB gain, again very nice, and based around another fine BURR BROWN product...

 And again can't sell any...

 And yet, these both have DACs in them and sound amazing...

 And when I give them away, nobody buys them....

 I find that very interesting as they both sound amazing and one is even buffered.

 Smooth, warm and accurate, but yet no interest....

 Very strange to me, but it is the DAC that everyone wants...

 Just the DAC.

 Nothing but the DAC....

 hotaudio40


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paara* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At least it has some insane specs_

 

Yes... The specs are quite insane...

 Insane enough for me to drool over


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It looks like a very nice DAC but unfortunately, it would be hard for me to get as I don't see it listed on any of my suppliers inventories....

 It also has the ADC on-board, which is NOT a bad thing, but it seems nobody is interested in the ADC part...._

 

Well, they do have DACs as well, without ADCs, but of course that doesn't help when your suppliers don't stock them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




AKM Semiconductor, Inc.: Digital Audio - DAC

 I also heard nothing but good things about the Cirrus CS4398: CS4398


----------



## ngsm13

This is my first look into a DAC... I've heard good things about hotaudio...

 I recently ordered a Fiio E5, and am now looking into a DAC... b/c my laptop one is not so hot. 

 Anyways, I'm intrigued in the hotaudio option but don't know what is best for me. I'd like to ideally spend less than $50... the only thing that crossed my radar thus far on slickdeals was the Creative Xmod for $25... but from reading the hotaudio seems like a much better option. 

 So, recommendations?

 Thanks. 

 nG


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ngsm13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is my first look into a DAC... I've heard good things about hotaudio...

 I recently ordered a Fiio E5, and am now looking into a DAC... b/c my laptop one is not so hot. 

 Anyways, I'm intrigued in the hotaudio option but don't know what is best for me. I'd like to ideally spend less than $50... the only thing that crossed my radar thus far on slickdeals was the Creative Xmod for $25... but from reading the hotaudio seems like a much better option. 

 So, recommendations?

 Thanks. 

 nG_

 

Hi,

 What phones are you using?

 Sounds like the HOTUSB1 is right up your alley. It wil definetly perform better then your laptop.


----------



## ngsm13

I'm currently using Phonak Audeo PFE's...

 Is it correct that the HOTUSB1 is also an amplifier as well? Or just a DAC...?

 Thanks. 

 nG


----------



## hotaudio40

If these are the headphones your talking about:

*Phonak Audéo PFE *
 Driver: single balanced armature 
 Sensitivity: 107 dB @ 1 mW 
 Impedance: 32 Ohm @ 1 kHz 
 Frequency range: 5 Hz – 17 kHz 

 The key spec here is the 107dB @ 1 mW and the 32 Ohms.

 The HOTUSB1 has plenty of power as it can drive 12mW into 32 Ohms.

 I for sure WOULD NOT go with anything with more power then 12mW in fact I would almost look for something with less power, like around 3 to 10 mW if anything like that exists...

 I know it will soon...
 As soon as I get my headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I ordered them two weeks ago, and they were supposed to be here today, but we had an ice storm, so everything is slow now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The earbud curse!


----------



## dfkt

Enjoy your Phonaks, I know I do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the way, they are _really _quiet compared to most other IEMs, no matter what the (already low) specs suggest.


----------



## hotaudio40

Ah yes...
 Now back to the DAC...

 The Cirrus CS4398 was another DAC I've been looking at and may be my next choice...

 It is a logical choice for me as I would like to try something other then BB chips, even though I love BB.

 Now is the Cirrus CS4398 the newest DAC from Cirrus ???

 That is the question... 

 I don't want to put an obsolete part in my new design.

 Sometimes it is hard to find the newest DAC from a provider, even when you research the DACs right at their website.


----------



## ngsm13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If these are the headphones your talking about:

*Phonak Audéo PFE *
 Driver: single balanced armature 
 Sensitivity: 107 dB @ 1 mW 
 Impedance: 32 Ohm @ 1 kHz 
 Frequency range: 5 Hz – 17 kHz 

 The key spec here is the 107dB @ 1 mW and the 32 Ohms.

 The HOTUSB1 has plenty of power as it can drive 12mW into 32 Ohms.

 I for sure WOULD NOT go with anything with more power then 12mW in fact I would almost look for something with less power, like around 3 to 10 mW if anything like that exists...

 I know it will soon...
 As soon as I get my headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I ordered them two weeks ago, and they were supposed to be here today, but we had an ice storm, so everything is slow now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The earbud curse!_

 

Ok, I also looked at your ebay auctions...

 What are the differences between the HOTUSB1, DESTROYER, AND MARK IV? 

 One suit me better than the other?

 nG


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah yes...
 Now back to the DAC...

 The Cirrus CS4398 was another DAC I've been looking at and may be my next choice...

 It is a logical choice for me as I would like to try something other then BB chips, even though I love BB.

 Now is the Cirrus CS4398 the newest DAC from Cirrus ???

 That is the question... 

 I don't want to put an obsolete part in my new design.

 Sometimes it is hard to find the newest DAC from a provider, even when you research the DACs right at their website._

 

The *CS4398* was introduced in March 2003, but it is recommended by Cirrus for "new design"

 The *CS4353* is cirrus newest DAC: introduced in october 2008, but it is not as good as the CS4398

 The *AD1852* is yet another option(not from cirrus though). It has better specs then the CS4398:
 DAC DNR (dB) 114dB
 SNR (dB) 114dB
 DAC THD+N @ 1 kHz (-3dB)104dB

 Or the *AD1955* which is even better.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ngsm13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I also looked at your ebay auctions...

 What are the differences between the HOTUSB1, DESTROYER, AND MARK IV? 

 One suit me better than the other?

 nG_

 

The *Mark IV* will be to powerfull, meaning if you adjust the volum on your computer from 1% to 10%, the volum in your HPs will go from low to very high. Though, it is not a good option. 

 The *HOTUSB1* is a good option if you like to adjust the volum from your computer. Like you would with the HP out. 

 The *destroyer* has in addition to HP out also pre out for an amplifier.

 Both the HOTUSB1 and Destroyer have a max output of 12mV so they are suited.

 Dave need to fill in the blanks here, and correct all errors 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I think I might have missed something


 EDIT: Tiny mistake. Described the wrong DAC at first


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, that's all correct parra 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would recommend the 12mW option i.e. the HOTUSB1 (or the DAC DESTROYER if you want / need the RCA outputs).

 The MARK IV is WAY TOO POWERFUL for those ear buds or any ear buds for that matter.


----------



## ngsm13

Solid. Thanks for the help, I'll more than likely pick up a DESTROYER soon then... I'm just a little short right now...






 nG


----------



## hotaudio40

Hmmm,
 I read a little comparison between the DACs here on head.fi

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/cs4...arison-213448/

 From what I read, and being BB biased, it seems the PCM1704 is the way to go.

 But I am also a HUGE fan of simplicity.

 I don't want to use too many chips, as I have to solder them all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm thinking 3 chips max...

 And I like the stereo DACs over the mono DACs.

 I used to do mono op-amps, but then switched to dual op-amps as I thought they sounded better.

 Perhaps there is better synergy between the channels when they are together.


----------



## paara

The 1704 will need quite a bit of soldering


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes....

 See that is the dilema in the 1704...

 It has to be the 1796 I think...

 Plus the 1704 is +5 -5 and I want to run the whole thing off one supply ie 5 volts and the 3.3V...


----------



## Nicodezo

Well, after seeing so many people happy with these products, I've taken the plunge and ordered one. 

 The one that seemed most interesting to me, despite limited info on the website and no mention of it in this thread, was the Mark VII Bit-Perfect USB DAC (HotAudio site or eBay). Looks to me like a Mark IV with a volume knob, which would suit me just fine. Guess I'll find out soon enough!


----------



## Shimmer

Does anyone know if a USB1 would work well with an AKG K271?

 AKG271:
 Sensitivity 91 dB/mW, 104 dB/V 

 Rated impedance 55 ohms


----------



## hotaudio40

I can tell you the HOTUSB1 would put out 7mW into 55 ohm headphones, as to if that would be sufficiently loud...

 I do not know...

 Anyone ???


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shimmer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if a USB1 would work well with an AKG K271?

 AKG271:
 Sensitivity 91 dB/mW, 104 dB/V 

 Rated impedance 55 ohms_

 


 I think a mark IV would be better


----------



## Shimmer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paara* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think a mark IV would be better_

 

Why? Because they would need more power, or just sound a bit better? I don't have $140 to spend unfortunately


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shimmer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why? Because they would need more power, or just sound a bit better? I don't have $140 to spend unfortunately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The mark IV is more versatile:
 - It has more power, so you can use it with many HPs. Even if you chose to buy a new pair later. 
 - It has a pre out so you have the possibility to add an amp
 - I think 7mV might be a little on the low side for your HPs. 
 - You will probably notice the upgrade from the HP out jack to the external USB DAC even more it you go for the MARK IV then the HOTUSB1

 Better to get it right the first time, then ending up buying 2 DACs


----------



## fluffygdog95

Hey, HotAudio. Would any of your Dac/amps be up to driving a Sennheiser HD600 or HD650? I have a Senn HD555 right now and I am looking to upgrade. I am quite sure that my sony STR-DE185 would not be able to handle it though. I am also going from my crap soundcard's DAC to my Sony STR-DE185 as an amp. The SQ must be suffering there.

 HD600

 Frequency response: 12 to 39,000 Hz
 Frequency characteristic: Diffuse field, equalized
 Driver size: 1.5 inches in diameter
 Nominal impedance: 300 ohms
 Characteristic sound pressure level at 1 kHz: 97 dB
 Load rating: 0.2 milliwatts
 THD: Less than 0.1 percent

 HD650


 Nominal impedance: 300 ohms
 Sensitivity: 103 dB (1V RMS at 1 kHz)
 Total harmonic distortion: Less than 0.05 percent
 Long-term maximum input power: 500 mw
 Frequency response: 16 to 30,000 Hz (-3 dB), 10 to 39,500 Hz (-10 dB)
 Frequency curve: Diffuse-field loudness equalization


----------



## hotaudio40

Well both the MARK IV and the SUPREME DAC/AMPS can deliver about 1.4 Volts RMS around 4 Volts peak to peak.

 So from that I'd say those two models can, and I'm pretty sure a few of my customers are using the HD600s and the HD650s and they seem happy....


----------



## fluffygdog95

Well thank you. You may be recieving my business soon then.


----------



## zickfun

Hey HotAudio, I have a pair of Audio Technica ATH-911's (AT's flagship model of the late 80's and then some) which DAC do you recommend?

 Thanks!


----------



## hotaudio40

Well I couldn't find any specs on the Audio Technica ATH-911's but if they are between 30 and 300 ohms then I'd recommend the MARK IV or the SUPREME models.

 They seem to be able to drive just about any headphones in that impedance range.


----------



## sgupt

well i bought the DAC Straight off of ebay (thanks for accepting my offer heh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 This is not the one that requires your amp to be ac-coupled is it? I have no idea if my amp is :-/. I probably should have asked this before buying haha.


----------



## ngsm13

WOW! I won the DAC Destroyer on eBay!

 Can't wait, I'm excited to post impressions. Thanks hotaudio!

*EDIT: WOW! I just paid, and he shipped it out today! I am amazed at the service. Thank you.*

 nG


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sgupt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well i bought the DAC Straight off of ebay (thanks for accepting my offer heh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 This is not the one that requires your amp to be ac-coupled is it? I have no idea if my amp is :-/. I probably should have asked this before buying haha._

 

You're lucky 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The "DAC STRAIGHT" is AC coupled, so you'll be fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Always read before you buy though, I make LOTS of different models, so read what your buying carefully!!!


----------



## sgupt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're lucky 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The "DAC STRAIGHT" is AC coupled, so you'll be fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Always read before you buy though, I make LOTS of different models, so read what your buying carefully!!! 




_

 

Yeah, I thought that DAC straight dual mode was the one that required the amp to be ac-coupled, I just wanted to double check heh.


----------



## hotaudio40

Well actually the DUAL MODE DAC has both options, AC or DC mode, thus the "DUAL MODE" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I myself know my amps are AC coupled, so I tried it out and it worked fine, as for ALL the other amplifiers out there, not sure if they have AC coupled inputs or not.

 Most probably do, but I'm sure a few do not.

 Thanks!!!


----------



## Nicodezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nicodezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The one that seemed most interesting to me, despite limited info on the website and no mention of it in this thread, was the Mark VII Bit-Perfect USB DAC (HotAudio site or eBay). Looks to me like a Mark IV with a volume knob, which would suit me just fine._

 

Sorry for the self-quote, but I'm still curious to find out what this particular new model is based on and where it fits into the lineup. HotAudio40, any info to pass onto your fans here?






 (and yes, mine is on its way... I couldn't resist!)


----------



## gsawdy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I could see making a DAC with spdif input, but then it can't run off a PC.

 I have a few chips with spdif inputs as well and someday I'll hook one up see how it sounds...

 hotaudio40_

 

Have you tried this yet? How did it sound? I'm very interested in a barebones SPDIF coax input dac that sounds good and is cheap. Any estimate on cost? Geo


----------



## hotaudio40

Well *Nicodezo*... 

 You were right in your guess that the "MARK VII BIT PERFECT" is a MARK IV with a volume...

 It is slightly enhanced,... well all my products now are enhanced to bring out a more 'warm' sound while still maintaining a very accurate and real sound.

 I had been thinking about these "bit perfect" articles I've been reading and realized that isn't so hard to do.
 But you can't do it in the digital realm. You must do it in the analogue realm. Thus the volume control.

 Having the volume allows you to keep the digital volume on the PC turned up to 100% therefore there is no processing being done to the digital audio stream.

 Then you simply control the volume in the more traditional way of using a potentiometer.

 Simple yes, but the ONLY way to get TRUE pure 100% untouched digital information from the PC to your speakers or headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When you get it you'll have to let us know what you think about it...


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gsawdy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried this yet? How did it sound? I'm very interested in a barebones SPDIF coax input dac that sounds good and is cheap. Any estimate on cost? Geo_

 

No, I haven't got around to doing that yet....
 But I do have some PCM1796 coming...
 I just need to get a few more parts and then I can make a SPDIF input DAC...

 Not sure when I'll have time though...

 But when I do have time, that is my next project...

 It won't be "barebones" per sea, but it will be interesting...

 I also need a good 24 bit 192 KHZ source...


----------



## Nicodezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you get it you'll have to let us know what you think about it..._

 

Thanks for the info, exactly what I was hoping to hear! The qualities of a Mark IV, the possibility of bit-perfect transmission, plus the simple notion of a physical volume button I can adjust with my eyes closed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll post my observations as soon as I receive it and have the chance for a good listening, bearing in mind this will be my first proper DAC...


----------



## sgupt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're lucky 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The "DAC STRAIGHT" is AC coupled, so you'll be fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I realized that I don't fully comprehend what you mean lol. I just found out my amp is DC coupled, so does that mean the DAC Straight is or is not compatible?


 As far as I understand, it should be compatible, based on what you wrote in the description for the DAC Straight Dual Mode on ebay:
  Quote:


 I must emphasize this DAC can NOT be used in DC mode with amplifiers that have DC coupled inputs 
 

And as you said, the DAC Straight is AC coupled, thus it follows that it would be compatible with my DC coupled amp.

 Is that logic at all right lol


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sgupt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And as you said, the DAC Straight is AC coupled, thus it follows that it would be compatible with my DC coupled amp._

 

Yes, your right...

 It IS compatible with your DC coupled amplifier because the DAC STRAIGHT already has the DC blocking capacitors as it has an AC coupled output.

 I am curious though...

 What amplifier do you have that has DC coupled inputs ????


----------



## Wenglish

This thread sure is staying interesting. And, despite the increase in interest (and orders? well, one person knows) David is still keeping up his excellent customer service. 

 Once I get more settled in (deciding on a second set of cans atm and an EF1 is on it's way) I'm probably going to want another DAC. And I'm pretty sure I know where I'm going to get it. 

 Last night the battery on the TPA amp died and I was too lazy to get up and swap, so I just switched to listening straight from the HotUSB1. 

 I've been using the amp more or less exclusively since my last post on it, so I've gotten really to its sound. Like usual, the HotUSB1 alone gave a touch more air but...it also felt like the mids were veiled a bit. Guitars were flatter and thinner, the bass guitar (which is mixed very high, but still) lacked the punch or energy I had become accustomed to. 

 It's wasn't a great recording (Iron Maiden's A Real Dead One) or a great rip (only 256k mp3), but the difference really stood out to me. The USB1 doesn't sound bad--and it's lightyears ahead of the hp out from my D630--but the TPA6120 amp really makes my 2200s rock. 

 Since that got me interested, I switched over to a flac rip of The Clansman (it was an Iron Maiden kinda night). In the middle section, before the solos, I noticed just a general flatness to the sound. Cymbals were particularly distant. So I got up and got my other rechargeable 9v to give that section a whirl with the amp.

 I won't say it's night and day--it isn't. But the cymbal crashes sounded like they were part of the same recording, the bass (remember, mixed quite high) had more energy and definition, and guitars had a bit more body. Everything was warmer and closer--two things I think this TPA amp does. 

 So now that I had the amp on I switched to Metal Church's A Subtle War, just for the intro. The amp really does give a nice kick to the drums. 

 Then I was all over the place. This is a fun amp. It's definitely got a touch of warmth and it also feels like it brings you closer to the music. It feels like I lose the few rows that I got moved back by switching to the USB1 from my hp out. 

 Oh, and Dave, one last thing. 

 How about a name for the amp? TPA6120a2 with Digital Rotary etc etc just doesn't roll off the tongue like "The Predator" or "The Raptor." Now, I'm no marketing major, but since you're from Canada I was thinking something like "The Raging Moose?" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thoughts?


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, hey "THE RAGING MOOSE" is a great name... and there are alot of mooses out here... lol

 lots of snow and frigid temperatures too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was thinking of names, as I often do, lol

 Do you really think "TPA6120a2 Based Headphone Amplifier with Alps Digital Volume / Balance Control " is too long a name, lol

 Maybe 'HAWADVBC', lol

 Well for real, I thought of the name "THUNDERBOLT" but I am so sure that name is most likely used somewhere in audio equipment.

 I've already noticed people are calling the "HOTUSB1" the "USB1" now...

 Interesting how people shorten names, so it has to be a short name and of course unique so people can find it.

 Since nobody is buying my "HIGH-OUTPUT HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER" it too needs a new name, lol, 

 But what.... ????

 What about the "ICEHEAD" since after all, after I get back from the post office that pretty much describes my situation... , lol

 What about "THE RAGING BEAVER" , lol
 We have alot more beavers then mooses, and the beavers are very aggressive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol


----------



## NilsenNorway

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol, hey "THE RAGING MOOSE" is a great 
 Since nobody is buying my "HIGH-OUTPUT HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER" it too needs a new name, lol, 

 But what.... ????


 lol_

 

HotHeadAmp?


----------



## sgupt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, your right...

 It IS compatible with your DC coupled amplifier because the DAC STRAIGHT already has the DC blocking capacitors as it has an AC coupled output.

 I am curious though...

 What amplifier do you have that has DC coupled inputs ????_

 

OK great thanks haha. It's the Meier Audio Corda Headfive in my sig.


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol, hey "THE RAGING MOOSE" is a great name... and there are alot of mooses out here... lol

 ...

 What about the "ICEHEAD" since after all, after I get back from the post office that pretty much describes my situation... , lol

 What about "THE RAGING BEAVER" , lol
 We have alot more beavers then mooses, and the beavers are very aggressive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol_

 


 I actually just got back from doing the Polar Bear Plunge in Sea Isle City--worst decision ever. Well, the decision to do it completely sober was. I'm pretty familiar with being an icehead at the moment. 

 Anyway..hmm...the HotAudio line of amps: The Icehead, the Raging Beaver, the Raging Moose. Well, that's a start. Now we just need to apply the names to the products.


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, you've forced me into a corner, lol

 The "HOTAUDIO RAGING MOOSE" is now real and listed on evilbay...

 We will see how good a marketer you are


----------



## Wenglish

Hahaha, it's been sig'd.


 And holy bejezus, there's really a Raging Moose listing! Someone needs to buy that. 

 Rofls. Just pure rofls.


----------



## Nicodezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting how people shorten names, so it has to be a short name and of course unique so people can find it._

 

Definitely agreed! Having unique names makes your different models, well, unique... both within your lineup and in the wider marketplace. 

 I'd much rather call mine a "HotAudio Mark VII" (or whatever replacement name you decide) than a generic-sounding "BIT-PERFECT USB DAC HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER." 

 I love the new names too, they've got character and a nice Canadian touch to catch the attention and help differentiate from the rest of the field.


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, yes names are VERY important...

 I've learned so much about marketing and I do realize that everything is in a name...

 Well not everything, but a good name can sell a bad product, and a bad name can keep excellent products sitting on the shelves...

 The "ICEHEAD" is real too now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as is the "THUNDERBOLT"...

 as for the "MARK VII BIT-PERFECT USB DAC"...

 I kind of liked that name, but I see now that it is WAY too long....

 lol, 

 there are many beers out here with moose like names, so I have to be careful

 We sell allot of beer here...


----------



## Wenglish

Haha, Dave, I love it. You're taking listening to your customers to a whole new level. Whether or not listening to us is any good...well...that's another story. 

 So, looking at fleabay, your amp product line goes Icehead < Thunderbolt < Raging Moose?

 I do like the Mark X name scheme though. USB 1 and then Mark IV, VII, (with V, VI, etc whenever you find a product that fits) for the DACs is pretty easy to keep track of.


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes, you got it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, I listen very carefully to what feedback I get.

 I used to think I knew it all, that I knew everything....

 But now I realize, and it took me a long time to realize it too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That I don't know everything and I should "listen" to what others say...

 I don't always follow their advice, but I do listen...


 ICEHEAD ( generic headphone amp, very loud, very accurate )

 THUNDERBOLT ( TPA6120a2 based, again very loud, but more accurate ) 

 THE MOOSE ( TPA6120a2 based with digital volume, my most accurate amp )

 And I also like the MARK X names...

 The MARK series is really the evolution of the HOTUSB1, which could be considered the MARK I and the DAC DESTROYER would be the MARK III, and of course the buffered version is the MARK IV.

 But the DAC STRAIGHT and DAC STRAIGHT DUAL MODE I think I will keep those names for a while... those are really part of the "SUPREME" line, but they are different products, so I gave them a new name... same DAC chip as the SUPREME, but different design & philosophy...

 The SUPREME is a whole different design with what some consider to be TIs' best DAC chip, at least that's what I've read, but TI has allot of DAC options and I have yet to try them all.


----------



## drgameboy

...........


----------



## spookygonk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since nobody is buying my "*H*IGH-*O*UTPUT *H*EADPHONE *A*MPLIFIER" it too needs a new name, lol, 

 But what.... ????_

 

How about the *Ho-Ha* or *Ho-Ha 1*?


----------



## hotaudio40

Hey that is good too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm glad someone said something....

 I was beginning to think this thread had gone dry....

 lol


----------



## hotaudio40

Hey, let's talk prices for a bit...

 What would be a good price for an basic headphone amplifier like the "ICEHEAD".

 It is pretty basic, very loud, and quite accurate.

 What would be a good price range for such a product ???


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, let's talk prices for a bit...

 What would be a good price for an basic headphone amplifier like the "ICEHEAD".

 It is pretty basic, very loud, and quite accurate.

 What would be a good price range for such a product ???_

 


 Again, I'm no economist--I'm a writer--so this is real armchair stuff from me.

 When you look at the portable amp market there is the real bottom end of the price ladder: the two fiios ($10 and $20, so you can't price compete there) and the cheaper model cmoys that are on ebay (~$35 buy it nows). The OPA2227 models are around $43 with shipping.

 Then there is the PA2V2 at $60. After that, the entry level amp from most builders is at least $100 (think T4), if not decently more (like $160 for the Headsix). 

 So the question is, where does the Icehead fall in terms of quality? That should determine the price of the amp.


----------



## KendiKong

Can my dac destroyer be used with foobar kernel streaming or asio?


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KendiKong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can my dac destroyer be used with foobar kernel streaming or asio?_

 

Yes, but don't ask me how to do it, I just know it can be done because others are doing it.

 I think it is pretty straight forward, give it a try.

 But again, don't ask me how to set it all up, but I have seen many articles on setting ASIO4ALL up and I've used foobar many times.

 But now I'm back to using WINAMP, I just like winamp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's easy


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wenglish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the question is, where does the Icehead fall in terms of quality? That should determine the price of the amp._

 

Thanks Wenglish...

 I guess that is a very obvious statement, and really it comes down to what I can get for it...


----------



## teeniebeenie6

I just had to pop in and say I LOVE the name "raging moose." My husband is a huge follower of yours, when he told me someone had suggested raging moose as a name I laughed so hard as I too am a Canadian. Well it made my day to see your new raging moose listing today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You have a great sense of humor!!


----------



## tinseljim

As another proud Canadian (in the UK) I like raging moose as well! Though you do know that the plural is meese and not mooses right?


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes... 
 I was thinking it was meeses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But who really knows....
 Has anyone really seen more then one moose at a time...

 And I've only seen one moose in my lifetime, and it was HUGE!!!

 Thank GOD it wasn't RAGING, lol

 It was just crossing the road, and I'm not kidding it was as high as the highway sign, we could have driven right under its' belly.

 More of a "GRAZING MOOSE" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love the name too,
 It kinda grows on you...

 lol


----------



## zickfun

Was just wondering which between the PCM2702 and Mark IV is better?


----------



## decayed.cell

Is this amp still available for purchase? Seems to be the cheapest TPA6120A2 amp I can find from a reputable seller


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this amp still available for purchase? Seems to be the cheapest TPA6120A2 amp I can find from a reputable seller_

 

Yes, it is available, just push the paypal button, and it will be on its way


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zickfun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was just wondering which between the PCM2702 and Mark IV is better?_

 

That could be considered a matter of taste...

 The PCM2702 is a superior DAC.
 It is more accurate then the MARK IV (TPA2705) and slightly more dynamic.

 It is possible that the MARK IV (PCM2705) is slightly warmer.

 In my humble opinion, I'd say the PCM2702 (SUPREME) is a better sounding DAC, as I like the extra bit of accuracy.

 They both have an additional buffer on their outputs.

 I think I'd go with the SUPREME model, but if you're NOT driving headphones, ie you're driving some kind of amplifier stage BEFORE your headphones or speakers, then I'd even look at the "DAC STRAIGHT".

 The "DAC STRAIGHT" is a PCM2702 reduced to its' purest form.

 It is a USB DAC that takes its' audio signal directly off the DAC without buffering or modification of any kind.

 It also has very much enhanced noise reduction circuits.

 The "DAC STRAIGHT" is my attempt to pull as much from a DAC as humanly possible.

 Take a VERY GOOD DAC and then see what it is capable of sounding like when pushed to its' limits.

 It is a very minimal circuit with VERY maximum thought to noise reduction, accuracy and dynamic response...

 I actually do that to ALL my DACs, but in the case of the "SUPREME" and "DAC STRAIGHT" (PCM2702) it seems there is more to work with...

 If your NOT driving headphones directly, then I'd go with the "DAC STRAIGHT" (PCM2702).

 hotaudio40


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, it is available, just push the paypal button, and it will be on its way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Whats the difference between that and the Thunderbolt?


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats the difference between that and the Thunderbolt?_

 

They are the same headphone amplifier.
 I've just given the TPA6120a2 model the name "THUNDERBOLT".

 And now it has a new look as of today


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are the same headphone amplifier.
 I've just given the TPA6120a2 model the name "THUNDERBOLT".

 And now it has a new look as of today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Ah right a different LED and a different knob. I'm a fan of the old price though oh well haha


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, yes the old price was nice...

 But realistically, I'm realized that people were judging my products based on their prices...

 For instance, when I sold some of my amps for $59, I attracted a "low end" sort of "newbie" customer.

 They had never heard an amp before and thought the amps sounded great, but were eventually going to upgrade....

 Of course that is almost an insult to me, even though I realize they are "newbies"...

 Then when my prices were double or triple that, I tend to get the "higher end" customer.

 The more "refined" customer, who has heard many amps and has done the research.

 The more "refined" customer is less confused by all my "hub bub" and they seem to know what they are getting...

 I also tend to sell more amps when the prices are higher....

 People really do judge a product based on its' price...

 I guess they figure, "it can't be that good if it is that cheap"....

 It really is a lesson in marketing....

 hotaudio40


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It really is a lesson in marketing....

 hotaudio40_

 

And psychology 101.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol, yes the old price was nice...

 But realistically, I'm realized that people were judging my products based on their prices...

 For instance, when I sold some of my amps for $59, I attracted a "low end" sort of "newbie" customer.

 They had never heard an amp before and thought the amps sounded great, but were eventually going to upgrade....

 Of course that is almost an insult to me, even though I realize they are "newbies"...

 Then when my prices were double or triple that, I tend to get the "higher end" customer.

 The more "refined" customer, who has heard many amps and has done the research.

 The more "refined" customer is less confused by all my "hub bub" and they seem to know what they are getting...

 I also tend to sell more amps when the prices are higher....

 People really do judge a product based on its' price...

 I guess they figure, "it can't be that good if it is that cheap"....

 It really is a lesson in marketing....

 hotaudio40_

 

How about... you charge me the old price, and I give you the difference with the new price in the currency of praise


----------



## hotaudio40

Well I'm having so much fun listening to it....


----------



## ngsm13

Got my Destroyer today! 

 Literally just plugged it in, I'm impressed. Now I'll be up all night listening in HeadPhone bliss!

 nG


----------



## BChan92

will the Icehead drive a pair of Sennheiser HD580's well?


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BChan92* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_will the Icehead drive a pair of Sennheiser HD580's well?_

 

Well the HD580s are 300 ohms.

 The ICEHEAD will put out 4.3 Volts peak to peak voltage swing.

 So the ICEHEAD could put out 7mW RMS into those headphones.

 I believe it would do a fine job.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

At home and at work, I use the same setup: AKG K271S, driven by a MarkIV. Trust me, regardless of the modest ohms listed in its specs, the K271S (and K271 Mark II) need a decent amount of power to sound like a premium phone. A USB1 won't cut it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shimmer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if a USB1 would work well with an AKG K271?

 AKG271:
 Sensitivity 91 dB/mW, 104 dB/V 

 Rated impedance 55 ohms_


----------



## sgupt

I got my DAC Straight today!!! I haven't plugged it in yet (still looking for an RCA cable..) but WOW it is tiny! It's like 1/5 the size of my amp haha.

 EDIT: found a really cheap rca cable, waiting on my monoprice order still.. the dac definitely sounds A LOT better than my Audigy 2. I cannot hear any noise unless I turn the amp all the way up, unlike my audigy. everything comes through nice and clear, the bass is nice and tight, and the detail is very nice.

 the build quality of the DAC is very nice too. you need to take better pictures haha, it looks a lot nicer in person.


----------



## dfkt

Mr. Hotaudio, how does the pan/balance control work on your TPA6120a2 amp? Pushing/pulling the pot?

 That feature is a godsend for me since both my ears have a different loudness perception. I've been stuck with a few brands of players (Cowon, Rockbox) that do support pan/balance... and I can't understand why most manufacturers omit that most basic of features nowadays. With that amp of yours I could use _any _player out there, something I never imagined would happen.


----------



## hotaudio40

That feature is ONLY on my "RAGING MOOSE" model.

 It is NOT on all my TPA6120a2 models just to make it clear...

 It works by simply pushing in the volume control knob.

 Push it in once to get to balance mode.
 Push it in again to get back to volume mode.

 Once you shut off the amplifier both the balance and volume are reset back to 50%.

 Pretty straight forward 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks,


----------



## dfkt

I see, thanks for the info. So there is no way to make the balance level permanent without reset? It's no biggie, I'm glad there's this one and only unique amp with pan/balance out there.


----------



## hotaudio40

Nope, no way at all unless you had a nine volt that lasted forever.

 Then you could leave it on all the time... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Otherwise you'll have to re-adjust the balance and the volume every time you turn it on.

 Thanks,


----------



## gurubhai

Has anyone used Denon AH-D1001 with a DAC destroyer ?

 would it be enough for this headphone( 32 ohm )

 or would I need an amp too.


----------



## lowlevelowl

As an owner of your Supreme DAC, I am a happy customer.

 I was wondering if sometime in the future, you are going to start producing desktop non-portable headphone amps? Maybe something similar to the M^3 but your own design. I would certainly be interested, and I'm sure others would too if the price to quality ratio was right.

 Any chance of us seeing one in the near future?


----------



## CTechKid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lowlevelowl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As an owner of your Supreme DAC, I am a happy customer.

 I was wondering if sometime in the future, you are going to start producing desktop non-portable headphone amps? Maybe something similar to the M^3 but your own design. I would certainly be interested, and I'm sure others would too if the price to quality ratio was right.

 Any chance of us seeing one in the near future?_

 

I know I would be VERY interested in a desktop offering from HOTAUDIO. But it has to be like a 40lbs behemoth and you have to call it the Northern Rage AMP/DAC!


----------



## hotaudio40

Hmmm, well I constantly do research and built units of all types...
 My focus though is usually on small portable units.

 Eventually I will build a desktop version of an amp / DAC combo, perhaps even with a low power (12 Watts or so) power amplifier built in...

 But as always, I try to make the DACs as small as possible as to decrease noise and make them more affordable.

 There is almost a direct ratio between size and costs.

 So you're right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It might be a 40lb behemoth, lol, well maybe 10 lbs...

 And I do like the name "Northern Rage", although everyone will shorten that to "RAGE" or "NR"


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone used Denon AH-D1001 with a DAC destroyer ?

 would it be enough for this headphone( 32 ohm )

 or would I need an amp too._

 

I believe the DD is enough for those...

 I know for sure that a few people are using that combo, but whether they have an amplifier as well I do not know.

 Anyone ???


----------



## CTechKid

Its been a slow day at the office, so I found some time to post some pics of my newest toy. I hope Mr. HOTAUDIO doesn't mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In his dress blues:















 Out in the wild!:


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, No I don't mind at all


----------



## lowlevelowl

Hopefully it'll be sooner than later... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I spent some time in Canada for uni, and knowing your currency perhaps you could call it the screaming loonie... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm, well I constantly do research and built units of all types...
 My focus though is usually on small portable units.

 Eventually I will build a desktop version of an amp / DAC combo, perhaps even with a low power (12 Watts or so) power amplifier built in...

 But as always, I try to make the DACs as small as possible as to decrease noise and make them more affordable.

 There is almost a direct ratio between size and costs.

 So you're right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It might be a 40lb behemoth, lol, well maybe 10 lbs...

 And I do like the name "Northern Rage", although everyone will shorten that to "RAGE" or "NR" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm, well I constantly do research and built units of all types...
 My focus though is usually on small portable units.

 Eventually I will build a desktop version of an amp / DAC combo, perhaps even with a low power (12 Watts or so) power amplifier built in...

 But as always, I try to make the DACs as small as possible as to decrease noise and make them more affordable.

 There is almost a direct ratio between size and costs.

 So you're right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It might be a 40lb behemoth, lol, well maybe 10 lbs...

 And I do like the name "Northern Rage", although everyone will shorten that to "RAGE" or "NR" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I'm still interested in a desktop amp from HotAudio, too. And that's a hell of a name, so it'd have to really deliver the goods to live up the it. I have no doubt that you could do it, though.


----------



## CTechKid

Think of the possibilities! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 wink, wink! nudge, nudge!


----------



## hotaudio40

Wholly cow!!!

 I've been looking for a "GRAPHIC DESIGNER", lol

 No kidding, that is GREAT STUFF!!!

 WOW, I'm blown away....

 I am great at making headphone amps, but am TERIBLE at designing graphics...

 If your not in advertising and graphic design, you're in the wrong business...


----------



## CTechKid

I work in sales & marketing, but am not a graphical designer by any stretch. I really only dabble in graphics occasionally and can probably achieve maybe 5% of what a real professional can create. Glad you liked it though!






 Anyways back on topic!


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CTechKid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyways back on topic!_

 

Topic? We have one of those?! I told you not to feed the topic. Now it'll never leave!


----------



## CTechKid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wenglish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Topic? We have one of those?! I told you not to feed the topic. Now it'll never leave!_

 

Ok fine!


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, I visualize that with legs... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's too much!

 Honestly the original picture was amazing...

 I was going to make a website just based on that image...
 The first one that is...


----------



## CTechKid

Go ahead. Its all yours pal.


----------



## drummerboy

I just bought a TPA6120a2/ Alps hp amp from David at hotaudio40. This is a very good sounding amp!
 I found the amp when I was researching what was available. Here is the link. http:RAGING MOOSE DIGITAL VOLUME HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER Digital Headphone Amplifier [RAGING MOOSE HEADPHONE AMP] - $149.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce
 The amp is very well explained here, and David includes full documentation and specs from Texas Instruments on the TPA6120a2 op amp, which seemed impressive to me.
 I am using it as a part of a portable reference library (I am a traveling professional musician) which consists of a 120 gig ipod and Sennheiser hd600s. I use a Monster Cable interconnect cut down to 4", and a 4' length of Silver Dragon for the phones. I have velcroed the ipod case to the top of the amp to create a simple single unit that sits on its end on a table so I can use the wheel easily.
 The first thing I noticed is that the ipod sounds a great deal better through this amp. I had grown used to the compressed sound of mp3s, but even the lowest quality tracks I have sound much better, and the compression is hard to hear.
 The amp has a S/N ratio of 120 db! No kidding! There is absolutely no amp hiss through the 600s at any volume! And the amp drives these phones up to painful levels. Digitally recorded music comes at you out of complete silence.
 There is a large burn in factor with this amp. For the first three weeks or so, I could hear quite a opening up every few days. Now, after a month or so, the amp sounds much richer than it did out of the box.
 Burn in is also a large factor with the Silver dragon cable, which I've only had for about 2 weeks. And this cable transforms the 600s into something MUCH better than they were.
 The Alps digital volume control is very simple to use, and sounds exactly the same at any setting. No pots to get dirty!
 It is hard to say what the "character" of the amp is, because it sounds completely different from production to production. It lets the music through without adding anything that I can hear. The bass is very defined, the midrange is rich and detailed; in fact this holds true all through the spectrum.
 I am able to hear tiny details in recordings that I hadn't noticed before. 
 The amp is able to keep individual instruments in focus, even in dense groups, like symphony orchestras, or jazz big bands. If I need to latch on to an instrument or voice, I can always find it, no matter how busy things are around it, and it keeps its relative dynamic level (this dynamic stability is very rare in my listening experience).
 The amp has a muscular quality in that dynamic peaks and valleys are given effortlessly, with a very rich,open sound. Nothing makes the amp sound like it is working hard. Combined with these phones and cables, it manages to be sharply analytical while being richly musical at the same time (something like the wacko speaker systems you find in record mastering rooms).
 This amp uses 9v batteries, and it uses them fast. I use NiMH batteries, and I change them every day, to be safe. The unit draws 20 mA at rest, so don't leave it on by mistake! But this quality of sound from something that runs on one battery is something else!
 David at hotaudio40 has put together a winner here, and the price is great!
 I am rather new to the kind of systems that are discussed here at head-fi, but I have decades of experience with speaker-based audio, from vinyl to now. I have also decades of experience as a musician, and am familiar with the recording studio since the 70's. I find myself amazed that a system so small and relatively inexpensive can do a job that normally I would expect from speakers and amps costing thousands...
 Technology just gets better!
 Has anyone else in this forum tried one of these amps? I'd love to hear what they think.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drummerboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The amp has a S/N ratio of 120 db! No kidding!_

 

This does not apply to the usual 16bit/44.1kHz audio... 96dB is the maximum possible headroom for CD quality. Of course it would be possible for specific 24/96 tasks, but I doubt your MP3 player would be useful for that.


----------



## ddoingwell

" Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drummerboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought a TPA6120a2/ Alps hp amp from David at hotaudio40."

 I had that model for a while too.


 "This is a very good sounding amp!"


 I completely agree


 "(I am a traveling professional musician)"


 ...me too but on different continents from you.


 "The first thing I noticed is that the ipod sounds a great deal better through this amp."


 I'm not a portable audio kinda guy except that I do use minidisc as my format for accompanying tracks.


 "There is a large burn in factor with this amp."


 I found that too though I had problems with what I thought to be very short battery life. I also fed the amp too hot a signal by running an independent DAC out of my computer and then into the HotAudio40 device. To compound the problem, I also occasionally ran the amp off the record-outs on my home stereo and off the line-outs on the mixing desk I use when performing. Distortion big time and drop-outs; it was a big old mess at times.


 "The Alps digital volume control is very simple to use, and sounds exactly the same at any setting." 


 For me, this feature wasn't a good choice. Having the amp reset to half volume every time it starts up caused me a bit of grief but again, that was a user-related problem.


 "It is hard to say what the "character" of the amp is, because it sounds completely different from production to production. It lets the music through without adding anything that I can hear. The bass is very defined, the midrange is rich and detailed; in fact this holds true all through the spectrum.
 I am able to hear tiny details in recordings that I hadn't noticed before. 
 The amp is able to keep individual instruments in focus, even in dense groups, like symphony orchestras, or jazz big bands. If I need to latch on to an instrument or voice, I can always find it, no matter how busy things are around it, and it keeps its relative dynamic level (this dynamic stability is very rare in my listening experience)."

 I completely agree. Not only that but when I used this amp with my fussy AKG K501s the skies opened up. The 501s never sounded so good and now that I have parted company with the amp, and haven't been able to afford a suitably muscular replacement, the 501s sit lonely on the shelf.


 "The amp has a muscular quality in that dynamic peaks and valleys are given effortlessly, with a very rich,open sound. Nothing makes the amp sound like it is working hard. "

 ....see my little difficulty described above.

 "This amp uses 9v batteries, and it uses them fast. I use NiMH batteries, and I change them every day, to be safe. The unit draws 20 mA at rest, so don't leave it on by mistake!"

 It's a real little piggy! 

 "But this quality of sound from something that runs on one battery is something else!"

 Yup. I miss it for sure.

 "Has anyone else in this forum tried one of these amps? I'd love to hear what they think._

 

"


 <<<PLEASE NOTE: all that is written above is a combination of drummerboy (in quotation marks) and my responses (no quotation marks) I couldn't figure out how to write a running commentary any other way>>>


 Yo. Here's the thing for me: it was just the wrong product and I wear the responsibility for making what could perhaps be seen as an unfortunate choice. Undeniably great sound, cheap as chips, and tons of fun, I got really upset when the battery would go flat so soon and the amp would distort when I unintentionally over-fed it signal. To his credit, Dave sought to rectify the issue quickly and sent me another amp to replace my first one. When the issues arose again it was clear that my use of the product, though in no way intentionally disrespectful, was asking the amp to do something that it just was not created to do. These amps are obviously very good for portable audio use as many of you are discovering; just watch out if you want to take the amp outside the iPod-ish realm.

 I don't know if he still does this, but for a while Dave put a disclaimer with the ads for those amps stating that they were not suitable for the kind of use I tortured the poor things with. His letters back and forth with me indicated that before my little mishaps, he didn't know about the issues I have related herein. Again to his credit, Dave refunded my purchase $$$ before I even asked; I held onto my loot and recently bought a HotAudio40 DAC Destroyer that I'm happily using as I write this. 

 I wanted to relay this little story for a while but I also wanted to give my experiences some breathing room. What I've got from my adventure is a sense that our good Mister HotAudio40 is an active participant in this process. He's not just pumping out the product and cashing the cheques; he's in there with us as we use the products and is evolving his creations constantly. And he really does care. That much was completely clear in how he handled me and my concerns. Things will only get better.


----------



## spookygonk

OK, tempted by one of the DAC1s, would this system work?:

 My bedroom setup is going to be: Acer Aspire One [FLAC] USB –> USB DAC1 –> audio in to Darkvoice 332 amp –> Senn HD580.

 Thanks.


----------



## lowlevelowl

That setup should work great. You will need a 1/8" mini jack to RCA cable. To connect the DAC to the AMP. I just ordered one from Blue Jeans Cable for under $30. Haven't received yet, so I can't comment on quality, but others here seem pleased with it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spookygonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, tempted by one of the DAC1s, would this system work?:

 My bedroom setup is going to be: Acer Aspire One [FLAC] USB –> USB DAC1 –> audio in to Darkvoice 332 amp –> Senn HD580.

 Thanks._


----------



## applevalleyjoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ddoingwell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"".....What I've got from my adventure is a sense that our good Mister HotAudio40 is an active participant in this process. He's not just pumping out the product and cashing the cheques; he's in there with us as we use the products and is evolving his creations constantly. And he really does care. That much was completely clear in how he handled me and my concerns. Things will only get better._

 

Hotaudio40 is truly one of the good guys. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not only does he put out a good product(s), but he is also open to ideas from those of us in the field and actively communicates individually or through head-fi. I'm glad that he's getting the support that he deserves.


----------



## roosta

i need a USB DAC and AMP for my ultrasone 780's. what could you recommend me from your range Mr. hotaudio? my budget is around $250. 
 im in the UK, so i also need to account for shipping. 

 how do these amps n dacs sound with something like the ultrasones? 

 thanks, looks like your gathering quite a reputation and following on here


----------



## hotaudio40

Well for those headphones (ULTRASONE 780's), I'd recommend either the MARK IV or the SUPREME models as they have lots of power and would complement those phones very well.

 The MARK IV and SUPREME are both USB DAC / AMPS.
 This means that they are a combination of DAC and then AMP stage.

 Plenty of power and lots of detail. 75mW into those phones.

 The MARK IV is slightly warmer then the SUPREME which is slightly more detailed.

 That choice would be a matter of taste and how the phones respond.

 If those are very boomy headphones then I'd go with the SUPREME, and if they lack bottom end, then the MARK IV.

 If you are looking for a "stand-alone" headphone amp.
 I have those too, but none of my stand alone headphone amps have DACs built into them yet...

 You most likely won't need an amp with the MARK IV or SUPREME, but of course you could always add one later if you wanted to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, almost forgot, all items are shipped for FREE worldwide off my website store.

 Thanks!


----------



## CTechKid

MARK IV < Mark VII

 KNOBS FOR ALL


----------



## lowlevelowl

I own the Supreme DAC and would heartily recommend it. It uses the TI/BB 2702 which I believe is one of their top of the line chips. Its currently priced lower than what I paid on eBay. It also has a nicer build quality than the other DACs since it is enclosed in an aluminum case with plastic end caps.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roosta* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i need a USB DAC and AMP for my ultrasone 780's. what could you recommend me from your range Mr. hotaudio? my budget is around $250. 
 im in the UK, so i also need to account for shipping. 

 how do these amps n dacs sound with something like the ultrasones? 

 thanks, looks like your gathering quite a reputation and following on here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drummerboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought a TPA6120a2/ Alps hp amp from David at hotaudio40. This is a very good sounding amp!.....

 Has anyone else in this forum tried one of these amps? I'd love to hear what they think._

 

Drummerboy,
 I have one of Dave's TPA6120a2 amps as well. I got it about month or so ago and I am still burning it in. I really like mine and agree with your comments even though I do not have a lot of other amps to compare this with. It is night and day better than dirrectly out of my IPOD! 

 I do find that it sounds much better with my Grado SR 60's, and even better with my new Denon D2000's, than with my AKG-K81DJ's. With the AKG's there is just too much of a good thing, the sound ends up being too energetic and in your face to enjoy for very long. 

 I was really surprised how well this little portable handles the Denon's, making for a very musical combination for around the house. I have an Audio-GD Compass on order that the Denon's are planned to be used with, but I am really enjoying this combination while I wait for the Compass to arrive.

 I also agree that this amp has an appitite for batteries, but that can be improved with the use of iPower 9V pro lithium polymer 520 mAhr battery's. I get double the time out of these compared to the Ni-MH 260mah batteries that I started with. They are a little pricey, ~$20 each, and require a special charger, but worth it, if you like this amp and are bothered by the short battery life of the Ni-mh cells. I bought two batteries and the charger and I am quite happy with this set up. There is a 500mah version that is a little cheaper but does not deliver as much current. These also do not hold there charge as long when idle as the Ni-mh, but if you listen to your amp as much as I do that won't be an issue. These last longer than the battery on my 5.5G IPOD so it works out well.

 I got mine here: iPower PRO Rechargeable 9V Lithium Polymer Battery 520mAh

 Mark


----------



## spookygonk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lowlevelowl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That setup should work great. You will need a 1/8" mini jack to RCA cable. To connect the DAC to the AMP. I just ordered one from Blue Jeans Cable for under $30. Haven't received yet, so I can't comment on quality, but others here seem pleased with it._

 

Thanks for the info, I have Chord Cobra RCA cables and have found a RCA => 1/8" converter, but would be interested in what your BJC sounds like. Will (have to) splash for the DAC shortly.


----------



## Bomo.is.ooc

Could the USB1 be used as a stand alone DAC and then plugged into an amp, as seen below?

  Code:


```
[left]Macbook Pro > USB Cord > USB1 > Mini to RCA Cord > Amp > Headphones[/left]
```

or is the source coming out of the USB1 to powerful to be safely plugged into an amp?


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rx7mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Drummerboy,iPower PRO Rechargeable 9V Lithium Polymer Battery 520mAh

 Mark_

 

That is one SERIOUS battery 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm going to have to get one of those.

 It is PERFECT for the "RAGING MOOSE"... or any headphone amplifier for that matter.

 Thanks for that!


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bomo.is.ooc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could the USB1 be used as a stand alone DAC and then plugged into an amp, as seen below?

  Code:



		Code:
	

[left]Macbook Pro > USB Cord > USB1 > Mini to RCA Cord > Amp > Headphones[/left]


or is the source coming out of the USB1 to powerful to be safely plugged into an amp?_

 

Yes, I do that all the time, but I find going to a 3.5mm to RCA splitter first and then to some nice RCA cables works better.

 Like those Y type adaptors.
 One solid piece.
 3.5mm in, two RCAs out.

 Like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-5mm-Stereo-Hea...3A1%7C294%3A50

 Then to some nice RCA cables.


----------



## Bomo.is.ooc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I do that all the time, but I find going to a 3.5mm to RCA splitter first and then to some nice RCA cables works better.

 Like those Y type adaptors.
 One solid piece.
 3.5mm in, two RCAs out.

 Like this:
3.5mm Stereo Headphone Jack to 2 RCA Splitter Adapter - eBay (item 140289725537 end time Mar-17-09 06:20:13 PDT)

 Then to some nice RCA cables._

 


 Ok cool beans, I'm going to try one out I think. Gotta see where the money is though (damn being broke).


----------



## spookygonk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like this:
3.5mm Stereo Headphone Jack to 2 RCA Splitter Adapter - eBay (item 140289725537 end time Mar-17-09 06:20:13 PDT)_

 

Yeah, I have one of those.


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rx7mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine here: iPower PRO Rechargeable 9V Lithium Polymer Battery 520mAh_

 

Wow, that is one serious battery. It makes me wonder about two things:

 Does the Raging Moose sound any better with that extra current on tap? My 280s last long enough that I'm never out of batteries, and with the additional cost of a charger and 2 batteries...

 That makes me want a desktop version of the Moose. That's an additional $70 on top of the amp itself. At that point it might be more economical to have a wallwart option, at least.


----------



## hotaudio40

Hmmm... Yes, a wallwart version would be cheaper.
 And as you said, same here, my 280 mAh batteries work very well.

 But look at that battery....

 Technically the amp WOULD sound better with more current as it sounds very good with the 280mAh NiMH batteries.

 It would have a more solid bottom end and of course more powerful sound with the 550mAh battery.

 But it would be cheaper to add the internal regulator and include the wallwart adapter.

 That design is in the books for sure...


----------



## ddoingwell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm... Yes, a wallwart version would be cheaper.

 But it would be cheaper to add the internal regulator and include the wallwart adapter.

 That design is in the books for sure..._

 

...and will that design sit on a desk and have little feet? Will it be a amp/DAC combo with multiple inputs and RCA outs? Just wondering...


----------



## Marzie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lowlevelowl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That setup should work great. You will need a 1/8" mini jack to RCA cable. To connect the DAC to the AMP. I just ordered one from Blue Jeans Cable for under $30. Haven't received yet, so I can't comment on quality, but others here seem pleased with it._

 

I have one of the blue jeans cables mini to rca's and I have been very pleased with it. Build quality is good and sound quality is even better.


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ddoingwell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...and will that design sit on a desk and have little feet? Will it be a amp/DAC combo with multiple inputs and RCA outs? Just wondering..._

 

lol, I have so many "little feet" around, I used to buy feet for the amplifiers I used to make a long time ago, so I have tonnes of "little black rubber feet" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Even some clear ones now.

 And tonnes of everything else needed to make such a unit...

 I was thinking one set of RCA inputs to feed the preamp stage.
 One set of preamp outputs, for output of course.

 A built in USB DAC of course.

 A switch to switch between the DAC or the RCA inputs to feed through the preamp stage.

 A headphone jack or two of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe a switch for "DIRECT OUT" of the DAC to the output RCAs.

 And maybe one of those fancy digital volume controls with "UP" and "DOWN" volume buttons, but I think the first model will just use the standard analogue volume control.

 It will run off a standard wallwart AC power adaptor, as I've made several preamps / headphone amps with them already... back in the day... lol...

 And I would love to incorporate a LM3886 power amplifier , but of course it would be fed from a separate power supply not included in the unit.

 I prefer to run the LM3886 off of batteries anyways... So there would be an input for the +/- 12 Volts or so to run the power amp.

 That is my dream machine so far and it will come in a metal case of course for the heat-sink for the power amp stage.

 But the first model WON"T have the power amp stage, just the DAC and preamp.

 Maybe two sets of input RCAs and a switch to control them....

 All of that is doable and I've done it before as well... just have never sold any units like that.

 I used to sell AC powered headphones amps, like I said, way back in the day... lol

 And I even sold Power amplifier kits, but those were not too profitable...

 Power supplies are very pricey... Never mind shipping those heavy units...

 There are even a bunch of "CLASS D" power amp chip out now that run near 95% efficiency...

 Unbelievably they will drive speakers up to almost 3 watts into 8 or 4 ohms off of a 5 Volt power bus.

 Some even go as high as 25 Watts using 12 Volts and the chips don't even require heat sinks and are the size of dimes...

 I kid you not...

 I've played with a few of those chips and it blew me away that they didn't even get warm....

 They didn't sound too good either, lol, but I am new at the "CLASS D" game...

 That fact is that they DID work though!

 I could throw one of those in as a beginner amp for "easy listening" at low levels...

 Lots of ideas....


----------



## dukja

Just got my Mark VII, which takes almost the whole week all the way to my rural town. Immediately, I tried it out with my FLAC files in my PC and HD555 and compare it with same FLAC files on Sanasa Clip.

 After a few vocal oriented music (Amanda's Dreaming), I did not find much difference. My ears have been deteriorated by portable MP3 player and PX100 for too long, I guess. The worst thing was that I heard quite a bit noise when I turned the volume control knob. (No noise at all when it is not turned) What? I though this only happens after many years of use. But this suppose to be a brand new device!!

 So I did some digging at head-fi forum and found quite a few people complaining about noisy volume control pot. The most interesting thread is the one discussing HeadRoom's Airhead. (sorry, I lost track on that link.) It seems that there is a tradeoff between whether some close DC component gets filtered out or not. Without additional filtering, the sound quality is better but noise from volume control may be heard.

 I contacted Dave and mentioned my concern. He immediately replied me with this mail:

_I was wandering when somebody was going to ask that guestion...

 The pot is NEW and a very good one.

 What you are hearing is the contact movement of the brush on the potentiometer.

 Now normally you would NOT hear this noise because most commercial amps don't go below 20 Hertz.

 I make my amplifiers go sub-sonic, well below 20 Hertz, almost to DC or Zero Hertz.

 That's why you hear the potentiometer noise.

 You would hear it with ANY potentiometer if the device you were using went down that low, but they don't.... probably because of that exact reason, you can hear the pot move...

 But I like to give a fuller spectrum of sound.

 In fact I give the FULLEST POSSIBLE spectrum of sound possible.

 You can't get that level of fidelity and sonic detail UNLESS you go lower then 20 HERTZ.

 So what you've got is an exceptional amplifier, capable of hearing even the sound of the potentiometer moving....

 Think about that for a while....

 You should for sure hear more detail in the bottom end, wait till it burns in a while...

 Dave._ 

 I have say that I felt much better after receiving such confirmation. Still I wonder if doing some spraying of contact cleaner would help (or no use in this case?)

 After less than 12 hours of burn-in and trying some more demanding music (Antarctica soundtrack and Enya's Watermark), my ear starts to hear the difference better. My first impression is that the sound stage is much wider comparing to Clip's. Also, the body of sound is fuller and smoother. With louder volume, Clip's sound quickly becomes tiring but I can keep enjoy Mark VII's sound. (I usually set volume between 11~12 o'clock.) Clip also sounds like being shaped by certain EQ setting (actually none used) and Mark VII sounds very open and fills all the spaces.

 Then Enya's Watermark really shows that Mark VII give tighter mid bass. And I start to feel a little bit low bass which was absect in Clip's sound. The impact or the amount of bass was not increased much, but the quality and extension are definitely improved.

 Overall, I am quite pleased with Mark VII. Since I don't have other nice setup to compare at this moment so this report is kind of limited. I'll try to see the improvement on the vocal, which is also my favorite. Also, a used DT 880 is coming and hopefully that will allow me to appreciate Mark VII more.


----------



## Wenglish

You know how you never miss something until it's not there? Well, I'm sitting on my porch (it's nice out, finally) and reading. I decided to be lazy and just grab my 2200s--no USB1, no amp. 

 And my ears are bleeding. Well, not it's not quite that bad, and these phones can actually sound halfway decent without an amp...but that USB1 is a godsend. I'm getting all kinds of distortion--not even internal noise (though that's there--mostly in the every single part of the range of human hearing. 

 I don't mean to harp on just how bad the D630 headphone out is...but it's the first time I'm using it for music since I did some A/B testing when I got the USB1. And I can say that with a solid 2 months of use that I couldn't imagine going back. The differences are night and day. 

 Well, back to my book.


----------



## Wenglish

I hate to be the guy who double posts, but oh well.

 It got too windy outside, so I went inside and thought, "I should get that dac straight I was thinking about." I know, that's a perfectly reasonable train of thought. So now there's one on the way--I'm interested to see if my ears will be able to tell the differences between the USB1 and the dac straight. 

 Either way, having a second dac should be nice. The dac straight for the EF1/home setup, the USB1 to travel with my laptop.


----------



## hotaudio40

Go ahead double post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't mind, lol

 You're lucky you can sit outside....
 It's still -25 Celsius wind chill here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Spring will never come here ....


----------



## Juspanderi

I bought the DAC DESTROYER yesterday, and it was shipped just in couple of hours later. Amazing service, thank you hotaudio40.
 I'm really looking forward to listen how it sounds, for now i have to listen music throught crappy onboard soundcard.


----------



## sdcloud69

I'm having a little problem with my HOTUSB1.

 It makes a really irritating buzzing noise via my little dot I+ when i use it as a DAC for my PC. Using my AD900s right out of the DAC is fine and the little dot I+ works perfectly out of the line out on my Creative Zen, hell it even sounds good via onboard out.

 Could it be the HOTUSB1 is incompatible with tubes or does the issue lie elsewhere?


----------



## Wenglish

The USB1 works fine with my EF1--so it's not a tube hybrid issue. In fact, the USB1 -> EF1 is dead silent with the W1000s (the most sensitive cans I have to test with, they hum slightly out of the Raging Moose).

 Are you using the same patch to connect the LD I+ to the USB1 as you are the LD I+ to Zen? If they're different it could be a cable issue. 

 Do you have any other amps to test with the USB1? Maybe there is a problem with it that you need an amp to hear--while that's not likely, it's possible.


----------



## sdcloud69

Yeah i use the same RCA > 3.5mm cable so i don't think that's it.

 I used to use a mini^3 amp with the dac, there were no issues at all.


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdcloud69* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm having a little problem with my HOTUSB1.

 It makes a really irritating buzzing noise via my little dot I+ when i use it as a DAC for my PC. Using my AD900s right out of the DAC is fine and the little dot I+ works perfectly out of the line out on my Creative Zen, hell it even sounds good via onboard out.

 Could it be the HOTUSB1 is incompatible with tubes or does the issue lie elsewhere?_

 

Hmmm, what kind of "Buzz" is it like a 60 Hertz hummm..... ????

 It sounds like some kind of "ground loop", if the sound is a hum that is....

 If the sound is higher frequency like a squeal, I've hear monitors can cause that kind of noise and playing the DAC in a different location may help....

 Do you use lights around the house with dimmer switches ????

 Describe the sound exactly, on which channels, both ???? at any volume ????


----------



## Wenglish

So the facts are

 PC > USB 1 > Pones = fine
 PC > USB 1 > Mini 3 > Phones = fine
 PC > LD I > Phones = fine 
 Zen nano > LD I > Phones = fine
 PC > USB 1> LD I > Phones = buzz

 And on my end, a USB1 > EF 1 = fine, so it's not just as simple as a blanket statement. 

 That's an odd one. 

 Maybe the increased clarity from the USB1 allows you to hear some tube buzz? Are the contacts clean? Have you swapped the tubes to see if the buzzing changes? 

 Or maybe someone with a LD I+ can chime in--but hey, I'm doing everything possible today to avoid work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 EDIT:
 And what Dave said. He's a smart guy, or so the rumors go


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, yes....

 I've never heard that problem with the HOTUSB1 before, but I am open to the fact that anything is possible...

 Also make sure everything is plugged into the same outlet.

 Use a power bar or something along those lines because to me, it sounds like grounding issues....


----------



## mango salsa

How does the HotUSB1 do with the Beyer DT770 pro 80 ohm? Will it drive the headphones well enough?


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mango salsa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the HotUSB1 do with the Beyer DT770 pro 80 ohm? Will it drive the headphones well enough?_

 

Well I do not know the answer to that one...

 According to my database, only one person is using the DT770s with the HOTUSB1 and I don't know if he has an amplifier as well...

 I think the MARK IV would be more suited to driving them as they are 80 ohms...

 Anyone ????


----------



## Wenglish

My 75ohm Ultrasone HFI2200 can't be fully driven by the USB1. They get to an almost satisfactory volume level...but it takes an amp to get them to earbleed. Also, the bass quality and instrument separation was great helped by the amp.

 I know that it varies, phone to phone, but I'd certainly go with one of the buffered output dacs if you don't plan on buying a separate amp.


----------



## mango salsa

not good. I already ordered the HotUSB1 last week. I was on a budget and it seemed like a good bang for my buck piece of equipment. I hope it works out ok with my DT770 80's. I guess I'll be the guinea pig on this one.


----------



## sdcloud69

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm, what kind of "Buzz" is it like a 60 Hertz hummm..... ????

 It sounds like some kind of "ground loop", if the sound is a hum that is....

 If the sound is higher frequency like a squeal, I've hear monitors can cause that kind of noise and playing the DAC in a different location may help....

 Do you use lights around the house with dimmer switches ????

 Describe the sound exactly, on which channels, both ???? at any volume ????_

 


 It's not really a hum, it's a high pitch buzzing noise, a squealing noise as you said, it's faint at lower volumes but it's really noticeable when you turn it up to comfortable levels, it comes through the right channel. It starts to intensify if i jiggle the mouse around or scroll down a webpage/click on something.

 I tried using different computers and i still get the same problem.


----------



## drgameboy

i am selling my hotusb1 on ebay, because i ordered the dac straight. anyone interested?
Portable Headphone Dac by (Hotaudio) - eBay (item 250387246376 end time Mar-13-09 05:08:33 PDT)


----------



## lowlevelowl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mango salsa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not good. I already ordered the HotUSB1 last week. I was on a budget and it seemed like a good bang for my buck piece of equipment. I hope it works out ok with my DT770 80's. I guess I'll be the guinea pig on this one._

 

The USB1 is a great bang for your buck piece of equipment. I can't speak for Dave, but with his great customer service I bet he would let you return it if it doesn't work with your headphones.


----------



## hotaudio40

Satisfaction Guaranteed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But who knows, the HOTUSB1 may work great with those phones...

 All phones are different


----------



## mango salsa

I sure hope they work out ok. I'll let you guys know when I get it in and give it a shot.


----------



## mango salsa

by the way, how long do you recommend I burn in the HotUSB1 so that I can hear its full potential?


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mango salsa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_by the way, how long do you recommend I burn in the HotUSB1 so that I can hear its full potential?_

 

How long ???

 I am convinced the "burn-in" process is indefinite....

 I believe that because sometimes I get units back that have several hours, perhaps a hundred or so, and they just blow my mind....

 But the results are incremental and probably logarithmic so probably after about 40 -100 hours or so you won't notice any significant differences...

 But if someone where to take the DAC away, use it for a year, and then return it, 

 You'd notice a HUGE difference.

 It is quite amazing actually....


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mango salsa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_by the way, how long do you recommend I burn in the HotUSB1 so that I can hear its full potential?_

 

I have one of Dave's amps with about 180hrs so far. I can confirm that, at least for my amp, it took a 100hrs to really burn it in, and even then the improvement started tapering off. I can't believe how my opinion has changed from the first 20 hrs of listening to now, and I fully expect it to improve some more.

 The first week I had the amp I left it on all day while I was at work, then listened to it in the evenings after changing rechargable batteries. Now I don't bother and just enjoy the amp while it continues to burn in. I actually don't think you would notice the burn in very much unless you are really paying attention to it, or like Dave said, you compared a brand new unit to one that has a lot of hours on it.

 Its sort of liking watching your kids grow up vs seeing relatives once a year. You hardly notice how quickly your kids are growing becasue it is such a gradual proccess, but when the family gets together you can't believe how the other kids have grown.

 Good luck!

 Mark


----------



## hotaudio40

Great Analogy !!!


----------



## drgameboy

my hotusb1 is still up for sale on ebay, i reduced the price to $30 shipped. anyone interested? 
Portable Headphone Dac by (Hotaudio) - eBay (item 250387246376 end time Mar-13-09 05:08:33 PDT)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drgameboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my hotusb1 is still up for sale on ebay, i reduced the price to $30 shipped. anyone interested? 
Portable Headphone Dac by (Hotaudio) - eBay (item 250387246376 end time Mar-13-09 05:08:33 PDT)_

 

Saw this - went to buy it, already sold 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't really need one, but at $30 couldn't stop myself.


----------



## dukja

I just got Mark VII less than a week and still enjoy it a lot. However, I am thinking about next step with DT 880 (not yet arrived) ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mark VII (DAC/amp) has more power than HOTUSB1. I wonder if it is possible to use it as DAC/preamp and then some tube amp (e.g. LD MK III) to play with the sound change. Just heard many good report on 880 and tube amp. Would it be bad idea with this configuration?

 Thanks!


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got Mark VII less than a week and still enjoy it a lot. However, I am thinking about next step with DT 880 (not yet arrived) ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mark VII (DAC/amp) has more power than HOTUSB1. I wonder if it is possible to use it as DAC/preamp and then some tube amp (e.g. LD MK III) to play with the sound change. Just heard many good report on 880 and tube amp. Would it be bad idea with this configuration?

 Thanks!_

 

Yes you can do that. 
 Not a problem at all.
 In fact with the volume control of the MARK VII you can find the tube amps' "sweet spot"


----------



## mango salsa

I got my HotUSB1 today here at work. I want to go home and try it out from my laptop first, I don't think its fair to say much just yet because I am listening from my work computer which is pretty old and crappy.


----------



## hotaudio40

The computer doesn't matter so much as the headphones do...

 Unless it's like a 486 or 386 or something super old


----------



## mango salsa

ok. I'll update you guys later after I listen to some more music and get some more burn in time. Sound quality might improve with more burn in, but I don't think sound volume will which seems to be very similar to my ipod. or will it? Im listening to my computer here at work at full volume and its pretty close to my ipod at full volume. I was kind of hoping it'd be louder than my ipod.


----------



## hotaudio40

Well the HOTUSB1 is about the same volume as a regular sound card, which should be a bit louder then an ipod, but I don't have an ipod, so I really don't know how loud one is...

 As far as will it get louder with burn in...

 Well the dynamics will improve as well as it will "open-up" somewhat and this will give the "perception" that it sounds a bit louder, but the overall volume won't really change...

 If you want more power then the MARK IV would have been a better choice for you, or maybe the addition of an headphone amplifier may also be a good option, as the HOTUSB1 is a very good front-end for any amp....

 But give it a while and let it work in a bit...

 It will take a while for it to come to life...


----------



## mango salsa

well its still pretty premature to make any assumptions. I have about 3 hours on these now, I'll give an update as things go along.

 One thing I am noticing is that even only with 3 hours burn in, the bass has gotten closer to the level of bass I was getting through my ipod on the 'electronic' EQ setting with trance. Keep it comin!


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, yes....


----------



## appositive

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mango salsa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well its still pretty premature to make any assumptions. I have about 3 hours on these now, I'll give an update as things go along.

 One thing I am noticing is that even only with 3 hours burn in, the bass has gotten closer to the level of bass I was getting through my ipod on the 'electronic' EQ setting with trance. Keep it comin!_

 


 Me and my dt 770/80s are very interested in how things turn out on this. I'm about to make an order with Dave... I'm not volume crazy, so I'm thinking of a non-buffered dac like the destroyer, but you sound a little uncertain on the volume you get with the non-buffered dac on the beyers...?


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *appositive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me and my dt 770/80s are very interested in how things turn out on this. I'm about to make an order with Dave... I'm not volume crazy, so I'm thinking of a non-buffered dac like the destroyer, but you sound a little uncertain on the volume you get with the non-buffered dac on the beyers...?_

 


 It's not purely about volume. While 2200s were sufficiently loud (more or less) for everything but the quietest recordings, they just weren't getting enough current to really sound good. Adding the Raging Moose really tightened up the bass and helped with instrument definition/separation. A buffered output might help in that regard.


 In other news, my dac straight got in today. It's about the length of the raging moose, feels/looks solid. The RCA outs are every so slightly close together--my blue jeans cable is rubbing a bit. Not a problem, just worth noting if you have particularly thick connectors on your RCA cable. The included USB cable is a bit shorter than the one that came with the USB1--luckily, I have a longer cable that will fit the bill. Once I find my camera (my room is a mess of empty Scotch bottles and half packed bags, much to the chagrin of swmbo) I'll try to get some pictures up of all three. 

 Initial impressions? It sounds good. I'll hold off on A/Bing or anything until I've got more hours on it, obviously, but out of the box it's definitely listenable. I'd make a gut call that it's more detailed at the extremes than the USB1, but I'm also using a much better cable. That's not to start a cable debate, but I was using a RadioShack-Fi mini to RCA. All three cables together don't equal one of the BJC ones.

 More as I listen. Mahalo.


 Edit/Update: 

 Burn in has been going on for almost seven hours now--sometime in there all traces of harshness has disappeared. Out of the box the whole spectrum was a bit grainy (most notable on guitar solos), after an hour or so it calmed down but I could still hear it mostly up top. Now, as far as I can hear, it's entirely gone. 

 A/Bs still to come.

 Edit/Update 2:

 The Dac Straight has about 17 hours on it, no real noticeable change from last check. I feel certain that this setup is better than the one I was using with the USB1. I'm going to be away for a few days, so no extra burn in/notes until I get back. 

 I hate work/real life getting in the way of things.


----------



## Quicky

I recently took delivery of a Hotaudio DAC Straight and thought I would post some of my opinions on here for anyone interested. 

 I waited over 3 weeks for this DAC to arrive (thank you UK customs) and I also had to pay a customs charge for the privilege. Also worth mentioning is that this DAC replaced a 2008 Valab which sounded amazing. Despite all this, this DAC has still impressed me massively!

 I've been listening to it for four or five days now, and the overall sound would probably be best described as super-clear and detailed with a very neutral signature that has a touch of warmth. It sounds really nice. 

 It hasn't got the warm, laid-back tone of the Valab, but that was a NOS DAC, and I would bet most people would describe the DAC Straight as imparting less of it's own flavour to the sound, compared to the Valab.

 Other DACs that I have had at various points in the past are the Beresford (a couple of years ago so not the latest version. I sent this back as I didn't like the sound at all). A Moodlab concept (I still have this NOS DAC and again, the Straight is less warm and thick without the slightly-exaggerated bottom end the Moodlab has. I do, however, love the Moodlab!) A Hotaudio USB1 (sold this a while back because at the time I needed more connections than USB but from memory, I would say the DAC Straight has a similar neutral tone as the USB1 but is more detailed and slightly more 'lush' sounding. Again, this is from memory).

 I had a couple of worries about the DAC Straight before it arrived but it turned out I was worrying for nothing. First was the fact the DAC Straight is USB powered. I figured this would be noisy. It's not. It's black-silent even when you turn the amp up. Also, I wondered if the USB power would mean the DAC does not go loud enough due to having limited power. The DAC doesn't have loads and loads of gain, but definately goes plenty loud enough. Also, there's not a hint of distortion anywhere. I guess you could take this for granted but this turned out to be the Valab's downfall..

 My other main worry was that it wouldn't live up to the Valab it replaced in terms of sound quality. In truth, it's not the fairest comparison because the Valab has more input connectivity and is NOS, wheras the DAC Straight is USB only and is an oversampling unit. I guess it's an apples-to-oranges comparison but for what it's worth, I like the sound of this DAC as much as I liked the Valab's sound. Obviously though, some people prefer one kind of sound over the other.

 Lastly, I was worried that this DAC might be too 'digital' sounding. I am used to, and really like, the NOS sound and I'm using a tripath amp and single driver speakers (fostex fe126e drivers in bass reflex cabs) so everything is very revealing as it is. This isn't a problem at all as it turns out. The unit is very revealing and detailed but it errs slightly on the warm side of detailed if that makes sense. Not NOS-warm but not overly 'digital' either, in my opinion.

 In summary then, this DAC sounds fantastic. Clear, detailed, not-at-all-unpleasantly digital, and in many ways just disappears in the system without drawing attention to itself. 

 I would totally recommend this unit to anyone who just needs a damn good USB DAC without any headphone outputs. Another great DAC Dave! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the way, the communication and service from Dave at Hotaudio has been great. Top-flight in fact, even with me nagging him about it taking ages to get here


----------



## sdcloud69

Does anyone know if the DAC Destroyer would be a good match for my Little Dot I+ ?

 I've been shopping around for a DAC and most are either out of my budget or they're a lesser known brand from China/HK, the latter being something i'd like to avoid for now. I was thinking of getting a high end soundcard instead since they're cheaper in AUS and easier to find, but i dunno, damn this HiFi stuff is really confusing lol.


----------



## earplay

Quicky,

 I'm confused when you use the term NOS. The conventional meaning is New Old Stock. It usually does not refer to characteristic sonic attributes. The only possible exception to this I know of is when NOS is used to refer to NOS tubes compared to new manufacture tubes, but even then, the variety of sound from NOS tubes is... well, various.

 Could you clarify for me as I am interested in your review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 earplay


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

NOS DAC = Non Over Sampling DAC


----------



## cegras

Non-over-sampling.


----------



## MacedonianHero

I just ordered the DAC Straight from Dave and must say that his patience in helping select the proper unit for my setup was phenomenal.

 His customer service is world class and he's a really nice guy from a great city...Winnipeg (my wife's home town).

 Thanks Dave. I can't wait to try this unit!


----------



## earplay

NOS = Non-Over-Sampling, got it!

 I've got a HotUSB 1 dac that sounds great. I understand that a DAC Straight might be more detailed. Often more detail results in too much brightness and a loss of natural timbre. Can anyone tell me how the DAC Straight sounds vs the HotUSB 1?

 earplay


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *earplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_NOS = Non-Over-Sampling, got it!

 I've got a HotUSB 1 dac that sounds great. I understand that a DAC Straight might be more detailed. Often more detail results in too much brightness and a loss of natural timbre. Can anyone tell me how the DAC Straight sounds vs the HotUSB 1?

 earplay_

 

I'm actually working on that now. 

 Or rather, would be, but thanks to allergies my hearing is messed up at the moment. For a few days (while on my "vacation"), everything sounded like it was underwater. Now there's just that water in the ear feeling in my right ear...which doesn't seem to be affecting my listening, but I don't feel like I should make critical notes when I know my ear is not right.

 My other problem is that I'd be comparing the Dac Straight + a BJC vs. the USB1 + radioshack mini to RAC cable. Oh, and my Dac Straight probably only has 35 hours on it vs. the 300 (at least?) of the USB1. That's not exactly apples to apples. 

 From memory, I can say that I prefer the Dac Straight setup. I don't feel it's brighter, just more detailed, specifically on the low end out of my EF1. I have to think that with more burn in, it would be even better. 

 Hopefully this'll go away in a day or two and I can make some official notes.


----------



## sdcloud69

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdcloud69* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if the DAC Destroyer would be a good match for my Little Dot I+ ?

 I've been shopping around for a DAC and most are either out of my budget or they're a lesser known brand from China/HK, the latter being something i'd like to avoid for now. I was thinking of getting a high end soundcard instead since they're cheaper in AUS and easier to find, but i dunno, damn this HiFi stuff is really confusing lol._

 

bump


----------



## earplay

sdcloud69,

 Avoid the soundcard if you want good sound. Now way around that.

 Can't answer re the Little Dot I+. If you don't get an answer here, go to the Hotaudio site and contact the manufacturer. He is very helpful.

 earplay


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdcloud69* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if the DAC Destroyer would be a good match for my Little Dot I+ ?

 I've been shopping around for a DAC and most are either out of my budget or they're a lesser known brand from China/HK, the latter being something i'd like to avoid for now. I was thinking of getting a high end soundcard instead since they're cheaper in AUS and easier to find, but i dunno, damn this HiFi stuff is really confusing lol._

 

I think it is a good match for any amp, receiver, etc.
 But I don't have an Little Dot I+ to try it out...

 But I see no reason it wouldn't work great...


----------



## earplay

Thanks, Wenglish,

 Looking forward to your impressions, though it seems like the DAC Straight would fit my bill if it is not bright at only 30 hours.

 earplay


----------



## CTechKid

Dave I see you trimmed your DAC offerings recently. Are all the remaining models the same as they were previously, or have some gone under the knife for upgrades? (I notice the Mark VII now has a different volume knob.)


----------



## hotaudio40

They are all being upgraded at all times...

 If I find a better solution, then I use it across the whole DAC / AMP line...

 I trimmed the offerings to make it a little less confusing, as some people were having trouble sorting out all my units....

 The knob on the MARK VII is just for a different look...

 You will be seeing lots of new looks as I have hundreds of knobs in stock....

 You will still be able to find all my items on my personal website, but my evilbay store inventory has been trimmed substantially...


----------



## gurubhai

just received my mark IV.Initial impressions are good however there is significant hiss from DAC even when all sounds are mute from computer.

 Since I listen at fairly low volume levels, the hiss is quite distracting during the quieter parts of the music. I did read about some of the previous comments about the hiss, but they for about PCM6102 based amp and unlike that amp this does not have a volume control.

 would the hiss decrease with burn in?
 any other tips to decrease the hiss ?


----------



## Juspanderi

Oh geez, the price of DAC DESTROYER is getting lower and lower. When i got it about a week ago, it was 63 euros, now it's 51. Still, the DAC is awesome, and i'm enjoying it alot.


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just received my mark IV.Initial impressions are good however there is significant hiss from DAC even when all sounds are mute from computer.

 Since I listen at fairly low volume levels, the hiss is quite distracting during the quieter parts of the music. I did read about some of the previous comments about the hiss, but they for about PCM6102 based amp and unlike that amp this does not have a volume control.

 would the hiss decrease with burn in?
 any other tips to decrease the hiss ?
 what can_

 

I think the hiss is a function of two things...

 The sensitivity of the headphones,
 and the impedance of the headphones.

 I believe that most likely the MARK IV is just too powerful for those headphones, because with other headphones there is no audible hiss whatsoever.

 Probably the MARK IV should ONLY be used with hard to drive headphones.
 Same goes with the SUPREME as these are quite powerful DAC / AMPs.

 A more compatible DAC for sensitive headphones would be the DAC DESTROYER as it has no buffer stage and has about 1/6 the output power...

 Your phones are just too sensitive for that much power.
 They're picking up everything as some / most IEMs do....

*EDIT: After doing some more looking at my database of issues...
 I noticed that ALL the headphones that were experiencing "hiss" issues had impedance's UNDER 32 Ohms....

 Interesting...

 I've now put a note on all my products that they are ONLY compatible with 32 to 300 Ohm headphones.
 Within that range there doesn't seem to be too many issues, except for the harder to drive 300 ohm headphones...
 And for those, I usually recommend the use of an additional headphone amplifier for the extra voltage required by them ( 300 ohms ).*


----------



## gurubhai

^^ well, I am fairly new to head-fi, I never knew that an amp can be too powerful for headphones.
 thanks for your offer for returning it(its a pain trying to ship anything internationally from my place) , but I shall be keeping it.
 Will try my speakers through it.

 would a resistor help and are any cheap ones available ?


----------



## hotaudio40

Yes resistors would help.

 You could try a couple of 100 ohm resistors in series with the left and right headphone elements.

 IE. add a 100 ohm resistor from the output of the DAC to the left input of the headphones and do the same for the right input of the headphones.

 This will help reduce the noise and may eliminate it completely.

 Using it through your speakers I think you'll be very impressed.

 Here is a link I found right on this site about adding resistors, hiss, and noise reduction:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/wi...edance-326387/

 Check it out!

 Maybe I should make resistor headphone adaptors.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Thanks for your understanding.


----------



## Bones2010

This hissing problem has got me wondering what's the best solution for my needs. I have Audio Technica ATH-M50's. 38 ohm resistance - 99db sensitivity. Would the dac destroyer be plenty for me? or would I still see benefits from going for the supreme? any help greatly appreciated.


----------



## cegras

Harrison Labs Attenuators (6dB) @ HeadRoom - Right Between Your Ears

Harrison Labs Attenuators (12dB) @ HeadRoom - Right Between Your Ears


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bones2010* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This hissing problem has got me wondering what's the best solution for my needs. I have Audio Technica ATH-M50's. 38 ohm resistance - 99db sensitivity. Would the dac destroyer be plenty for me? or would I still see benefits from going for the supreme? any help greatly appreciated._

 

While different phones react differently, here are my experiences...

 USB1 + everything = no hissing that I've noticed
 USB1 + Raging Moose + RX700 (32 ohm) = hissing, doesn't affect music.
 USB1 + RM + HFI2200 (75 ohm) = very, very slight hum (I have to be looking for it at high volumes). Not a problem, music wise.
 USB1 + RM + W1000s (40 ohm, via 1/4 to 1/8 adapter) = hissing, but it's a setup I wouldn't use in the first place. 

 I haven't tried my PK3s, but at 32ohms, they don't need amplification, and I think they would be too sensitive for the Raging Moose. And how the Moose compares power wise to the buffered dacs..well, Dave will have to chime in. 

 It's not all about resistance, though. The W1000s sounded worse than the RX700s to me, for example. They're also a much more sensitive can, so they should sound worse.

 The USB1 and Dac Destroyer have the same power output, so I assume they'll drive the same...I felt the Ultrasones were just slightly not loud enough, but the RX700s could be pushed more than comfortably loud by just the USB1. Those extra 6ohms shouldn't matter.

 However, if the M50s are current happy...then you probably won't get enough juice from just the Destroyer. The Ultrasones sounded better once amped, not to mention louder.

 If you were just sticking with the M50s, the destroyer would probably be fine. But if you get a pair of higher impedance cans later you'll absolutely need an amp, and you might be able to save some money by getting a buffered dac now...ah, decisions decisions.

 Those attenuators are sounding like the right route to me.


----------



## gurubhai

my experience :

 mark IV + D1001 (32 ohm, sensitivity - 103 db/mw) - significant hiss.

 mark IV + DT231 (32 ohm ) - hissing, doesn't affect music much.

 mark IV + HD201 (24 ohm ) -hissing, doesn't affect music much.

 the phones do sound a lot better with the amp though. Bass has extended lower, highs are better controlled and resolution is better.

 If only there was no hiss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the attenuators are too costly for me.


----------



## 1Time

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bones2010* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This hissing problem has got me wondering what's the best solution for my needs. I have Audio Technica ATH-M50's. 38 ohm resistance - 99db sensitivity. Would the dac destroyer be plenty for me? or would I still see benefits from going for the supreme? any help greatly appreciated._

 

FWIR and in my opinion...

 While the DAC Destroyer "may" be plenty for you, especially if not comparing the two, you definitely would see benefits with the Supreme, and it definitely would be worth it.


----------



## appositive

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wenglish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not purely about volume. While 2200s were sufficiently loud (more or less) for everything but the quietest recordings, they just weren't getting enough current to really sound good. Adding the Raging Moose really tightened up the bass and helped with instrument definition/separation. A buffered output might help in that regard._

 

I'll start with a caveat: I'm new to good sound through headphones. I've had reasonable exposure to good near-field and far-field equipment, but phones are new to me. 

 I took Wenglish's advice about 10 days ago and ordered a HotUSB mark VII (rather than the DAC destroyer I was considering). It arrived in the mail today. That makes for ~8 days transit time from Winnipeg to Amsterdam, the Netherlands... not bad at all. I'm using the buffered DAC to drive a set of Beyerdynamic DT770 pros at 80 ohms.

 There's a comment in this thread that Dave's products look better in person than in the photos on his site... that is certainly true of this little DAC. It has a good solid feel about it... if it had a door, the door would slam shut like a BMW, not the Hyundai that the website photos suggest.

 To get to the point, I'm astonished with how much better sound is on the DT770s when driven by this buffered DAC. This is an early assessment, as I've got about 6 hours burn time on it right now, but I understand that things will only get better... and I'm very pleased already.

 I've had the beyers for about 3 months and have been listening to them from the output on a macbook. When I first received these phones I was a little disappointed; from my lurkings around this site I understood that the DT770s should be really bassy... even too much so. Jacked from my macbook I never got that from them... bass was reasonable, but a bit muddy and ill-defined. In fact the phones sounded quite bright and trebly. No matter how much I tried to convince myself otherwise, my 35 euro Sennheiser HD202s sounded better. 

 A different beast lives in my phones now. The bass is huge and beautifully defined. The soundstage is much larger and definition between instruments is crisp and clean. 

 Headphones and associated amps/dacs/etc are often spoken of as having a great cost-benefit ratio; for reasonable cash you get great sound. This appears to be doubly true of Dave's product; this little 80 euro DAC makes as big a difference to my listening experience as far more expensive near-field purchases have in the past. 

 I could rave further; the point is that I can't recommend the Mark VII with the DT770s enough. If you've got the DT770s (80 ohm) and you're looking for a single DAC/amp unit, the Mark VII is a great option. 

 Some specifics: I understand that the Mark IV has a little more oomph; my max with the 80 ohm beyers and the Mark VII, with quiet recordings, is about 60% volume... but I'm not a fan of bleeding ears. With a friend's Sennheiser HD590s (35 ohm) and the Mark VII I can't get past about 40% without discomfort. 

 I may be kidding myself, but I have the feeling that I can hear the difference between bit-perfect output on the macbook and regulated output (ie. when all software volume is at 100% and volume is regulated with the DAC pot, versus when I use software to regulate the volume). The Mark VII is Dave's only DAC products with a pot (I think?), so this might be a consideration for anyone trying to decide within his product range. 

 Alright, that's it for now. Thanks Dave for making my music sound better (for cheap!).

 edit: The volume pot doesn't go up quite as far as I thought! It only turns about 270 degrees, rather than the ~360 I was expecting. This means that my judgments of volume above are a bit over the mark. I'm very happy with the range of volume offered; for those who like it really, really, really loud and are listening on 80 ohm or higher resistance cans... it might be worth thinking about putting an amp after the MarkVII, or considering the more powerful Mark IV.


----------



## 1Time

To Dave or anyone who knows...

 Would I be better off with the Destroyer or Mark IV with a stand alone desk top amplifier? 

 I haven't purchased the amp or the headphones yet. The headphones would probably be in the 50 to 100 Ohm range. The amp would be a desktop model, but not sure yet which one.

 Would the desktop amp be put to better use with the Destroyer or Mark IV or either one? 

 Thanks


----------



## CTechKid

If you only ever plan on having it hooked up to an amp and never using it to drive headphones directly, the DAC STRAIGHT would be my suggestion.


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *appositive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I took Wenglish's advice... _

 

People are listening to me?! The horror! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously, I'm glad you're happy with the VII and 770s. That next step in sound quality is always great...until you decide you need more. My wallet perishes the thought of my next setup...but the Dac Straight -> EF 1 -> F1001ish is really awesome to my ears, so hopefully my next big upgrade is a while off. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1Time* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To Dave or anyone who knows...

 Would I be better off with the Destroyer or Mark IV with a stand alone desk top amplifier? 

 I haven't purchased the amp or the headphones yet. The headphones would probably be in the 50 to 100 Ohm range. The amp would be a desktop model, but not sure yet which one.

 Would the desktop amp be put to better use with the Destroyer or Mark IV or either one? 

 Thanks_

 

If you plan on using a desktop amp and only that, I would probably recommend the Dac Straight. Granted, you cannot run headphones directly from the DS--whatever you plug it into needs a 5k ohm input impedance. 

 But...you get a better DAC with the DS, the 2702 (the Mark IV and Destroyer use the 2705, iirc). The downside is you can't run headphones from it...but if you were always going to use it with a desktop amp, it's probably the way to go.

 I'm not sure how the buffered output of the MarkIV would react to being amped, so if I was going to choose between the two, I'd pick the destroyer.


----------



## 1Time

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wenglish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure how the buffered output of the MarkIV would react to being amped, so if I was going to choose between the two, I'd pick the destroyer._

 

That's pretty much what I'm wanting to know, whether the headphones would make better use of the desk top amp from the Destroyer or Mark IV. I'm not so much concerned with the differences in sound between the DACs as I'm convinced they all sound great. I'm more concerned with whether the desk top amp would drive the headphones better with one or the other. Thanks


----------



## hotaudio40

The DAC STRAIGHT is the way to go if you ONLY intend to drive an amplifier as it CAN NOT drive headphones directly.

 The DAC STRAIGHT is a MAX'ED out PCM2702 which is supposed to be one of Burr Browns BEST DACs....

 But it can only drive loads above 5000 Ohms.

 Next in line for driving amps, I'd say is the DAC DESTROYER as it still has plenty of voltage to drive amps and sounds amazing in my mind.

 And of course it will also drive headphones very well too....


----------



## 1Time

Right, I understand the idea of using the DAC Straight. 

 But between the Destroyer and Mark IV, would there be an advantage / disadvantage in terms of the performance of the desk top amp when used with one or the other? 

 Thanks again.


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1Time* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right, I understand the idea of using the DAC Straight. 

 But between the Destroyer and Mark IV, would there be an advantage / disadvantage in terms of the performance of the desk top amp when used with one or the other? 

 Thanks again._

 

Well the MARK IV has more power so it drives amps harder and you get a more powerful sound, with more punch and dynamics.

 But with the DAC DESTROYER, it still drives an amplifier pretty hard and is slightly warmer and maybe even a little more detailed as it isn't going through another buffer stage.

 Normally I use the DAC STRAIGHT or DAC DESTROYER when listening to my amplifier and speakers as I don't play my music to extreme levels. 

 But if you like tunes like "SHE"S SO COLD" by the STONES, for example, then you might enjoy the extra drum pounding that the MARK IV can accomplish....


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CTechKid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you only ever plan on having it hooked up to an amp and never using it to drive headphones directly, the DAC STRAIGHT would be my suggestion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

My DAC Straight arrived today and I paired it with my Grado RA1 AMP and Grado SR325is headphones and I can finally listen to music from my laptop. Previously, when I simply output from my PC to my AMP, the sound was just so bad that I had to instead use my iPOD Classic (160Gb) with LOD.

 I can't believe the improvement in sound with this DAC! I am really enjoying it. It's built very well and seems very solid for a such a small device.


----------



## CTechKid

I would love for one of the reputable members to do a shootout between the DAC STRAIGHT and the new PICO DAC. I think the results would surprise everyone.


----------



## soulrider4ever

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CTechKid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would love for one of the reputable members to do a shootout between the DAC STRAIGHT and the new PICO DAC. I think the results would surprise everyone._

 

Uh oh - A shootout! HeadphoneAddict / SkyLab I think he's calling you out


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CTechKid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would love for one of the reputable members to do a shootout between the DAC STRAIGHT and the new PICO DAC. I think the results would surprise everyone._

 

Let's not forget the price difference of $100 (DAC Straight) vs. $500 for the Pico DAC.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soulrider4ever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Uh oh - A shootout! HeadphoneAddict / SkyLab I think he's calling you out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

I am on the pre-order list for the Pico DAC-only, but I don't think it would be a fair fight. 

 I have compared the Pico DAC/amp to a few PCM2702 based DAC/amp (Predator, 3MOVE, XM5), and while their amp sections were all on a similar level using analog input, the internal DACs with 2702 did not have that last bit of refinement, micro-detail, air, ambience and space that you get with the Pico when using it's DAC.

 However, I am a big fan of the PCM2702 as a budget cost-effective and nice sounding DAC chip - it is much better than a couple of PCM2706 DACs that I have tried. I have no doubt that I would think the hotaudio DAC sounds nice, and it's probably better than my Headstage USB DAC Cable that I keep around for a quick use with non-dac amps that I have laying around.


----------



## hotaudio40

Remember also that the DAC STRAIGHT can NOT drive headphones directly.

 It does not have a OUTPUT BUFFER and can only drive loads greater then 5000 Ohms.

 It takes its' audio signal straight off the DAC...

 They are really two different beasts....

 The DAC STRAIGHT is meant to drive headphone amplifiers, regular amplifiers, receivers and such...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Remember also that the DAC STRAIGHT can NOT drive headphones directly.

 It does not have a OUTPUT BUFFER and can only drive loads greater then 5000 Ohms.

 It takes its' audio signal straight off the DAC...

 They are really two different beasts....

 The DAC STRAIGHT is meant to drive headphone amplifiers, regular amplifiers, receivers and such..._

 

That's exactly it. There is no sound colouration or loss of quality with subsequent circuitry or amplification. I think it sounds really, really good with my RA1 amp and SR325is headphones. The detail and sound stage really came to life.


----------



## CTechKid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am on the pre-order list for the Pico DAC-only, but I don't think it would be a fair fight. 

 I have compared the Pico DAC/amp to a few PCM2702 based DAC/amp (Predator, 3MOVE, XM5), and while their amp sections were all on a similar level using analog input, the internal DACs with 2702 did not have that last bit of refinement, micro-detail, air, ambience and space that you get with the Pico when using it's DAC.

 However, I am a big fan of the PCM2702 as a budget cost-effective and nice sounding DAC chip - it is much better than a couple of PCM2706 DACs that I have tried. I have no doubt that I would think the hotaudio DAC sounds nice, and it's probably better than my Headstage USB DAC Cable that I keep around for a quick use with non-dac amps that I have laying around._

 

At the end of the day, aren't the best DACs supposed to be completely neutral and transparent? I'm a beginner headphone hobbist at best, but all I want out of my DAC is for it to convert 0s and 1s to analogue and for my headphones to add character. The minute my DAC is adding its own color, or detail trim, is the moment I'll be looking for an alternative. If you can achieve true neutrality from a $100 DAC, why look beyond that (assuming of course it has the inputs you desire)?

 The above is not an argument by any stretch, just a call for a better understanding.


----------



## lowlevelowl

If anyone is looking for one of Dave's Supreme DACs I have one I posted in the FS section of the forum. Its a great DAC but doesn't get as much use as it did, so I have to clear some room in my office. PM me if interested.


----------



## WindowsX

My friends told me the price variation made them scare to buy ones. It is even higher than American stock market change rates


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CTechKid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the end of the day, aren't the best DACs supposed to be completely neutral and transparent? I'm a beginner headphone hobbist at best, but all I want out of my DAC is for it to convert 0s and 1s to analogue and for my headphones to add character. The minute my DAC is adding its own color, or detail trim, is the moment I'll be looking for an alternative. If you can achieve true neutrality from a $100 DAC, why look beyond that (assuming of course it has the inputs you desire)?

 The above is not an argument by any stretch, just a call for a better understanding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Right - neutral and transparent are a must - I didn't say otherwise. I said the better DACs will have "that last bit of refinement, micro-detail, air, ambience and space" that the lesser PCM2702 DAC will lack. I never said anything about the DAC adding character, color or anything else. The better DAC isn't adding anything, it's just NOT HIDING anything (i.e. not failing to let everything in the music come through).

 Why look beyond neutral and transparent? There are a lot of other criteria important to good sound including what I listed above, plus frequency response, attack and decay or transient response, accuracy of timbre and tone, imaging, channel separation and signal to noise ratio, and more. I'm sure you know this and didn't mention it, but I thought I'd throw it out there so you know I didn't forget about those things either.


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WindowsX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My friends told me the price variation made them scare to buy ones. It is even higher than American stock market change rates _

 

Yes, I used to play the stock market...

 And it reminds me of the good old days before the "GREAT RECESSION"


----------



## spookygonk

Still haven't dropped funds on one of these beauties (been on holiday for a week). Is there a quality+price ranking on the USB DACs (for between source and tube/portable amp)? Like:
 HotUSB1 < Dac Destroyer < DAC Straight < Supreme ??

 Also, is he still making the HotUSB1?


----------



## earplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CTechKid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the end of the day, aren't the best DACs supposed to be completely neutral and transparent? I'm a beginner headphone hobbist at best, but all I want out of my DAC is for it to convert 0s and 1s to analogue and for my headphones to add character. The minute my DAC is adding its own color, or detail trim, is the moment I'll be looking for an alternative. If you can achieve true neutrality from a $100 DAC, why look beyond that (assuming of course it has the inputs you desire)?_

 

I would just point out that you cannot run a signal through a circuit without changing the signal. A straight wire with gain will alter a signal. The point being that all DAC's affect the signal and the sound. We only approach electronic perfection, more or less, we don't achieve it.


----------



## sdcloud69

Any idea of how the supreme/straight DACs perform against any other DACs? I'm rattling my brain trying to figure which DAC to buy.


----------



## earplay

I think Dave's last post was deleted. It was up last night.

 In it he said he had been warned again that he was violating the rules of the forum because of the nature of his comments. Too commercial, although, I always found his posts helpful and informative. He said that he can post on his forum, but I don't know where that is. Possibly his web site.


----------



## earplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *earplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would just point out that you cannot run a signal through a circuit without changing the signal. A straight wire with gain will alter a signal. The point being that all DAC's affect the signal and the sound. We only approach electronic perfection, more or less, we don't achieve it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Actually, a straight wire, with or without gain, will alter a signal!


----------



## SaturdaysAndSundays

has anyone tried to open this DAC?


----------



## jageur272

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SaturdaysAndSundays* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_has anyone tried to open this DAC? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You open one. They're hardwired to the case, so opening one would destroy it.


----------



## userlander

So is the HotUSB1 discontinued? I was going to get one for a friend, but I don't see them on the site anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been using mine with my thinkpad and a few different phones (sr60i, px100, ad700), and the sound just keeps getting better and better. Lots of clarity, no distortion even at high levels, a really neutral sound, but not "analytical" at all. I love this little thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It also works great in linux, I just had to rmmod the laptop's regular drivers and reload snd_usb_audio. 

 It's too bad if they're not available anymore - what's the best substitute? Maybe I'll upgrade and give my friend mine, although it will be hard to part with this one. I love how portable and durable it is, metal would be a bad choice compared to this high impact cover.


----------



## CTechKid

The DAC Destroyer replaces the HOTUSB1 in Dave's line up.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CTechKid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC Destroyer replaces the HOTUSB1 in Dave's line up._

 

cool, thanks. 

 Any reviews of the raging moose/thunderbolt? It seems that ray samuels also has a thunderbolt (II) -- who stole the name from whom? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So it's hard to find anything on hotaudio's amp. If this DAC is any indication, I bet those are nice sounding amps.


----------



## ngsm13

I just wanted to come back and comment here after some ownership/"burn-in" time with my DAC Destroyer... I love it. I dislike when I have to listen to my HP's without it. Sounds great, improves dynamics and output, and it's simple/inexpensive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 nG


----------



## TopPop

I've been interested in some of Dave's offerings for a while now, but never bit the bullet. Well, I just Fleabay-ed what looks to be a HotUSB1 (captive USB cable, and 1/8" jack) for a low price.

 It should give me an idea of what Dave's tastes are, at least, and let me know if I should go further up the line.

 Color me interested.


----------



## SaturdaysAndSundays

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ngsm13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wanted to come back and comment here after some ownership/"burn-in" time with my DAC Destroyer... I love it. I dislike when I have to listen to my HP's without it. Sounds great, improves dynamics and output, and it's simple/inexpensive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 nG_

 

I am going to send mine back, I guess. No difference at all, compering to Macbook pro and iMac and HP desktop. Well... slightly better than HP. I really don't know what this is all about. Personally could not find any difference in sound quality. DAC Destroyer seems to be quieter, thats all. I will try some more burn in time as well...


----------



## ngsm13

Well, I'm not sure how to describe it. 

 My laptop headphone output get PLENTY loud, the sheer volume/output of my phones straight out of the laptop is more than enough. 

 I have always been skeptical of such things, but I figured for the price I'd try it. I was not necessarily impressed at all at first. My impressions were similar to yours. 

 I've been listening to my DAC Destroyer for going on 2months now... and just last night I plugged my phones into the laptop directly b/c I didn't want to walk into the other room and snatch the destroyer...

 After about 10seconds, I got up and grabbed it. A/B'd for the first time in a while and I prefer the sound production of the Destroyer...

 nG


----------



## ricedaddy

I just got my bit perfect dac in. It's my first DAC ever so bear with me.

 First thing I noticed, was when connected to my powered speakers, the volume control on my speakers are pretty much rendered useless. When I first plugged in the dac, the sound coming from my speakers were super quiet. I had to max the volume in my windows and and winamp just to get back to the level before. Changing the volume control doesn't have much effect when I want a louder sound. Also, I have to turn the volume knob on the dac more than half way as well to achieve normal listening volume. What's the reason for this?


----------



## CTechKid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ricedaddy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my bit perfect dac in. It's my first DAC ever so bear with me.

 First thing I noticed, was when connected to my powered speakers, the volume control on my speakers are pretty much rendered useless. When I first plugged in the dac, the sound coming from my speakers were super quiet. I had to max the volume in my windows and and winamp just to get back to the level before. Changing the volume control doesn't have much effect when I want a louder sound. Also, I have to turn the volume knob on the dac more than half way as well to achieve normal listening volume. What's the reason for this?_

 

Need more information on your setup. Explain your audio chain in detail please, and how each component is connected.


----------



## ricedaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CTechKid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Need more information on your setup. Explain your audio chain in detail please, and how each component is connected._

 

I have a pair of Swan d1080mkII and I have a l+r rca into a 3.5mm cable that connects into the headphone output of the DAC. I am still awaiting for proper M/M rca cables that I ordered. That's my setup.


----------



## Krendopolis

I just bought a dac destroyer. I've been using it for about a week with denon ah-d1001 phones. My computer has the stock soundcard and there is no comparison sonically between the two. The destroyer just walks all over it like it should. I hooked it up for the first time tonight to my dussun integrated and the output is lower than a cd or dvd player. That has been my experience hooking up computers with stereos in the past so no surprise really. I just hoped the extra oomph in the headphone output jack would carry over to the rca outs. It does sound good.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

It's sad to see hotaudio forced to not be as present as before.


----------



## spookygonk

Had my Bit Perfect delivered on Tuesday (with no customs charges either!) and I am amazed how small this unit is, the photos made me think it was far bigger. 

 Have been running it in with my Acer One since it came through the door and already the soundstage is bigger and wider. So looking forward to putting this through its paces over the weekend.

 Note: this DAC has a blue LED, but thankfully it puts out the lowest glow possible, the one on my Little Dot Mk1 lights up a room it's so bright.

 Absolute billy bargain!


----------



## earplay

DAC Straight has been burning in for about 5 days. Sound quality is continuing to improve. Loving this DAC. Smooth, relaxed, detailed and dynamic in my system, i.e. no headphones yet.

 PC> Quuxplayer> supplied USB cable & HotAudio DAC Straight> MAC AgQ IC> Glow Amp 1 (JAN GE Triple plate 5670's/NOS Mullard EL84's)(MAC power cord)> WLM DIY Cables (braided) captive on Hornshoppe Horns.


----------



## DWP1

First time posting here on Head-Fi and I don't even sign up for many forums outside my trade generally but thought I should in this case. 

 I've been researching for months to enter into the world of DACs but, due to my location, am unable to physically (audibly) test much. I was all set to order a Keces DA-151 when I stumbled across Dave's offerings, based on the reviews here, elsewhere and email with Dave I decided to go with HotAudio.

 So I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of one of the fleaBay only listings Dave has - DAC Straight Gold Edition. Seems like the perfect fit for my current needs. I might be on the wrong forum posting this but I don't even own any headphones worth mentioning. Just continuing on the path searching for the perfect sound (and on a budget).

 I'll report back here with results after it's arrived and burn in. 

 BTW, I didn't find Dave's stuff on eBay until after I'd read so many good things about it searching the net. Word of mouth is the BEST and most effective advertising anyone could ever hope for.


----------



## DWP1

Ok, so I've been running this thing through it's paces now for over a week and overall I've got to say it's a magical little box. I've nothing else to compare it to as far as external DACs go but it gives so much more clarity to the music than the onboard chips on my Macbook, Mini or my HTPC running the Mac OS. The HTPC is what is directly connected to the rest of my kit 90% of the time so most all testing and listening was done with this combo.

 What do I hear? Well, much greater definition to the mids and highs in their soundstage. Cymbals, snare and upper octave piano lays have all improved. Dave mentioned that this is a "warm" sounding DAC and this was noticeable from the first time I plugged it in. I wasn't sure for awhile if I liked it - if it was coloring the sound in some way. It's got a good 200+ hours on it now, (I leave music streaming 24/7 sometimes) well into burn in and I've either fooled myself into thinking it's the best upgrade I've done to my system in years or it really is. The overt warmth was trimmed with some tube rolling on my pre unit and I'm happy with the results. The warmth isn't boomy in any way but a definite "thickening" of the lower frequencies, at the same time the detail in the base is very much more pronounced. Acoustic base is especially noticeable and even with difficult classical compositions where instruments can get lost there is noted improvement. Much better than my AMC or NAD players.

 From the Butthole Surfers to Mingus I'm enjoying my music library anew. Before this purchase another upgrade had made files ripped in a lossy compression painfully obvious on my system. Since this purchase I've had to dig out the cases of CD's in the closet and re-rip them all as AIFF. Be warned. Gotta say, I'm really enjoying my jazz collection again with the new sound. Just picked up Joe Cool's Blues (Wynton Marsalis) and "Little Birdie" is especially fun.

 I'm no audio pro by any means but I have been striving for better sound seriously for over 20 years now. I do have a weakness for older NAD but have owned plenty of "better" labeled equipment over this time. I don't go in for gimmicks often, consider myself a critical listener and had been trying to justify the convenience of a digital music server vrs the sound I was getting from it. No longer a problem.

 I'll probably get another DAC within the year as the budget allows just for a basis of comparison. If it's better, the HotAudio will get used with the house Mini but I'll make damn sure I can return it if it's not up to par.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DWP1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, so I've been running this thing through it's paces now for over a week and overall I've got to say it's a magical little box. I've nothing else to compare it to as far as external DACs go but it gives so much more clarity to the music than the onboard chips on my Macbook, Mini or my HTPC running the Mac OS. The HTPC is what is directly connected to the rest of my kit 90% of the time so most all testing and listening was done with this combo.

 What do I hear? Well, much greater definition to the mids and highs in their soundstage. Cymbals, snare and upper octave piano lays have all improved. Dave mentioned that this is a "warm" sounding DAC and this was noticeable from the first time I plugged it in. I wasn't sure for awhile if I liked it - if it was coloring the sound in some way. It's got a good 200+ hours on it now, (I leave music streaming 24/7 sometimes) well into burn in and I've either fooled myself into thinking it's the best upgrade I've done to my system in years or it really is. The overt warmth was trimmed with some tube rolling on my pre unit and I'm happy with the results. The warmth isn't boomy in any way but a definite "thickening" of the lower frequencies, at the same time the detail in the base is very much more pronounced. Acoustic base is especially noticeable and even with difficult classical compositions where instruments can get lost there is noted improvement. Much better than my AMC or NAD players._

 

Nice review. I feel the same way about this hotaudio stuff. it's really got good clarity, warmth, and presence. Without the DAC, the output from my laptop is really smeared and all squashed together, especially at high volumes. With the HOTUSB1 there's none of that degredation. There is great separation and crystal clarity, everything is very distinct and yet still very organic sounding. 

 The Raging Moose amp is the same way - excellent separation and clarity, with a "sparkliness" that has just the slightest touch of warmth. It's like SS on steroids, but in all the right ways. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was an SS/tube hybrid. Really great products - my HD600s should be here today and I can't wait to test them on the moose. I have a feeling it's going to sound great, as long as it has enough juice.


----------



## spookygonk

I had been running my Bit Perfect from my Acer One for about a week, though not for the last few days as it's so small I had forgotten where it was. It's now reconnected and powering my HD-580s. Going to give it a good listen next week I also have an older yet more expensive DAC to compare it to.


----------



## dyrmaker83

So, this is likely going to be a stupid newbie question, but can the usb DAC's (Destroyer) be used straight from an iPod through the usb port? Is there a special iPod to "square end" usb cable, and would the Destroyer function as an external sound card for the iPod?

 I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but I've seen several posts mentioning connection to an iPod through a LOD. I just use my iPod in my car, so I'm completely new to portable audio.


----------



## dyrmaker83

Oh, and has anyone managed to order a lower model DAC or amp (again, the Destroyer) in the metal case that the DAC Straight comes in? I think that just looks a lot nicer, although I'm sure that adds to the cost.


----------



## powerslave

The IPOD LOD goes to an amp, not a dac so you would need to buy one of dave's amps.


----------



## dyrmaker83

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powerslave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The IPOD LOD goes to an amp, not a dac so you would need to buy one of dave's amps._

 

That's what I figured. Thanks!


----------



## iiqae

hello,

 i just ordered a hotusb1 and an ad700..

 but i just saw that hotaudio.com is offering the bit perfect usb dac for only about $25 more.

 i'm wondering first of all if i should consider cancelling my purchase of the hotusb1 to invest in the bit perfect usb dac.

 but also some secondary questions..

 -do both products serve the same function or are they two totally different beasts?
 -would the main purpose of upgrading to the bit perfect usb dac be to benefit any potential headphone upgrades from the ad700? would i only be justified in buying the bitperfect usb dac in that case?

 the feedback is really appreciated. i'm trying to figure things out on the fly here.

 and feel free to add anything.. i'm sure i haven't covered all the bases here.


----------



## powerslave

Essentially yes, they perform similar functions. The amp in the bitperfect dac has more power to drive phones then the hotusb1. The dac is also considered to be better as well.


----------



## Mr_Tasty

Did anyone manage to get ASIO or Kernel Streaming to work with their DAC Straight? If you have, would you mind sharing your settings? I just can't seem to get it working with it. Thanks

 EDIT: Nevermind, I got it to work. Had to do some updating of Foobar and some plugins.


----------



## andy_d90

These Hotaudio products lead me to read and read all day at work yesterday. I'm quite the newbie at sound in general. I game more than listen to music but when i do listen to music I do like to enjoy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 My current system is almost useless but I have plans for a big leap.

 Current:
 Computer ASUS Xonar D1 -> PLatronics Switch -> Audioengine A2's & Sennheiser PC151's
 Computer Onboard -> Platronics Switch -> Microphone (pc151).

 My Upgrade will consist of:
 USB Dac , Headphone Amp and Sennheiser HD555's with clip mic.

 I basically need: USB -> DAC+AMP which will result in an headphone AMP output to HD555's and an output to my 2.0 Audioengine speakers without switching. The Mark IV looks somewhat suitable but still lacks volume control which I prefer to use by hand for my headphones output. An headphone amp with an RCA output (fixed volume) would be very nice but I cant find that feature on Hotaudio's amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I suppose I'll get a DAC from there at least.

 The Dac Destroyer hook up with an Icehead or Thunderbolt looks good though, how would I expect these to sound with HD555's? Both sides are known to be warm.


----------



## midget

does anyone know how well any of the hotaudio40 amps/dacs perform with k701s?


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does anyone know how well any of the hotaudio40 amps/dacs perform with k701s?_

 

I'm actually thinking very hard about buying the DAC Straight so if I do get it, I will let you know. It would be on some serious K701/HD650 duty.

 Speaking of which, the only thing that has been holding me back from purchasing it is because I'm not sure how much of an improvement DAC straight will be compared to my current Total Bithead (feeding the EF1s). I've read from this thread that Hotaudio stuff + EF1 is good in general, but can anyone that have experience with both bithead and DAC straight (or even reasonably speculate) tell me if it is indeed a significant enough upgrade?


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm actually thinking very hard about buying the DAC Straight so if I do get it, I will let you know. It would be on some serious K701/HD650 duty.

 Speaking of which, the only thing that has been holding me back from purchasing it is because I'm not sure how much of an improvement DAC straight will be compared to my current Total Bithead (feeding the EF1s). I've read from this thread that Hotaudio stuff + EF1 is good in general, but can anyone that have experience with both bithead and DAC straight (or even reasonably speculate) tell me if it is indeed a significant enough upgrade?_

 

*The DAC STRAIGHT can NOT drive headphones directly!!!*

 It needs a headphone amplifier as a buffer between it and the headphones as it is ONLY a DAC, not an AMP!!!

 Just thought I would make that clear as some may think it can drive headphones.

 It can NOT drive headphones!


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*The DAC STRAIGHT can NOT drive headphones directly!!!*

 It needs a headphone amplifier as a buffer between it and the headphones as it is ONLY a DAC, not an AMP!!!

 Just thought I would make that clear as some may think it can drive headphones.

 It can NOT drive headphones!_

 

Yes, I'm well aware of that. If you read my post above you'll see that I'm planning to feed my EF1 headphone amp from it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sorry if that was confusing.

 Will the components used in DAC Straight be superior to the ones used in the DAC component for Total Bithead? That's the question.


----------



## chews89

Hey guys, I have a question.

 Say I want to use the destroyer with my mini^3 amp. If I use a mini-mini to connect my mini^3 to the destroyers headphone output, would this mean I'm amping the signal twice? Hence its not optimal? Thanks


----------



## UTF

I am also thinking about the same thing, to feed EF1 with hotaudio and then to HD600. In addition to how much it will improve over what i am using now (m-audio transit), i am also debating between different modes, straight or bitperfect or destroyer. In general i like a warmer sound, that is said coming with destroyer, but it seems straight may be a better DAC. Any comment?

 Also, how is the hotaudio stuff (say straight) compared to fubar II or ibasso boa, which are also my current considersations?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Speaking of which, the only thing that has been holding me back from purchasing it is because I'm not sure how much of an improvement DAC straight will be compared to my current Total Bithead (feeding the EF1s). I've read from this thread that Hotaudio stuff + EF1 is good in general, but can anyone that have experience with both bithead and DAC straight (or even reasonably speculate) tell me if it is indeed a significant enough upgrade?_


----------



## CTechKid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I'm well aware of that. If you read my post above you'll see that I'm planning to feed my EF1 headphone amp from it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry if that was confusing.

 Will the components used in DAC Straight be superior to the ones used in the DAC component for Total Bithead? That's the question._

 

The Burr-Brown PCM2702 in the DAC STRAIGHT is a superior DAC than the PCM2902E in the Bithead. How much better? I'd say considerable.


----------



## CTechKid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UTF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am also thinking about the same thing, to feed EF1 with hotaudio and then to HD600. In addition to how much it will improve over what i am using now (m-audio transit), i am also debating between different modes, straight or bitperfect or destroyer. In general i like a warmer sound, that is said coming with destroyer, but it seems straight may be a better DAC. Any comment?

 Also, how is the hotaudio stuff (say straight) compared to fubar II or ibasso boa, which are also my current considersations?_

 

IMO the DAC STRAIGHT is HOTAUDIO's best DAC, assuming of course you're feeding it into an amp. He's setup it up so the PCM2702 is totally raw in its output, and thus has no buffering or any kind of modification, and thats a considerable plus in my books.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CTechKid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Burr-Brown PCM2702 in the DAC STRAIGHT is a superior DAC than the PCM2902E in the Bithead. How much better? I'd say considerable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nice, thanks for that information. Looks like DAC straight will be my next purchase on my next paycheque (which is tm). Luckily it's on sale at the moment too, and also in-country sale which is always convenient. I can sell off the Bithead and make some of that money up anyway, since I have EF1 now and have no use for the amp portion of the Bithead. Costs are adding up, but hey, I've come this far so I might as well maximize my setup.


----------



## powerslave

Yes, that would be considered double amping. You could introduce unwanted distortion and/or damage the 2nd amp if you raise the volume on the first amp too high. Check out this thread for reference http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/double-amping-391361/. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chews89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I have a question.

 Say I want to use the destroyer with my mini^3 amp. If I use a mini-mini to connect my mini^3 to the destroyers headphone output, would this mean I'm amping the signal twice? Hence its not optimal? Thanks_


----------



## powerslave

Welcome back!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*The DAC STRAIGHT can NOT drive headphones directly!!!*

 It needs a headphone amplifier as a buffer between it and the headphones as it is ONLY a DAC, not an AMP!!!

 Just thought I would make that clear as some may think it can drive headphones.

 It can NOT drive headphones!_


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powerslave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome back!_

 

x2 

 Welcome back, Dave!


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powerslave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, that would be considered double amping. You could introduce unwanted distortion and/or damage the 2nd amp if you raise the volume on the first amp too high. Check out this thread for reference http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/double-amping-391361/._

 

Would what I am currently running right now (laptop -> usb -> bithead -> mini to rca -> EF1) fall under the same category? In my setup bithead is running as a DAC but I'm not sure if by using Bithead's headphone out as an output for mini to RCA I'm essentially doing the same thing (or if it is a different case with DACs). Just want to make sure so that I don't do damage to my EF1 before I get my DAC straight.


----------



## powerslave

If you are using the headphone out of the bithead then yes you are double amping currently. I'm not familiar with the bithead so i don't know if it has line level outputs. You should maybe check with the manufacturer to see what they suggest. I know i did it with my hotusb1 to and amp via headphone out so i could get more power to my phones. I asked dave about it and said it was ok to do so and i had no issues. I did notice though that if i turned the hotusb1 up too high that the sound would get a bit muddy, not as clear. I think in this case, the hotusb1 doesn't produce alot of power to begin with so no danger of harming anything downstream. Not sure about the bithead though.


----------



## K_19

Yeah, the Bithead does not have a separate line out, but I do remember reading the FAQ from Headroom that said while it doesn't have a separate line out, headphone out is just as good except for a little bit of distortion being possible. It does not mention anything about double amping. I don't listen to particularly loud volumes (my Bithead volume is set around 3/4 while my EF1 is around 10 o'clock) or anything, so is it safe to assume that it's relatively safe for now without risk of overloading?

 Edit: Here's what the FAQ says.
*
 13.Q. Does the BitHead have a separate line out?*

_A. No, it does not have a separate line out. You can use the headphone jack with confidence though; remember that, as a general rule, headphone amp outputs are just like good pre-amp outputs but typically just a bit noisier in terms of adding some background noise floor issues._


----------



## Qonmus

I just ordered the Bit Perfect DAC; I know this isn't as good as the DAC Straight. I am planning on adding an amp at a later date, but I thought for now the Bit Perfect would be nice. Assuming I add an external amp, would I notice a huge difference between the BPDAC and the DAC Straight?


----------



## UTF

It seems Fubar II also uses PCM2702. How will STRAIGHT compare to Fubar? They also cost about same. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CTechKid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO the DAC STRAIGHT is HOTAUDIO's best DAC, assuming of course you're feeding it into an amp. He's setup it up so the PCM2702 is totally raw in its output, and thus has no buffering or any kind of modification, and thats a considerable plus in my books._


----------



## powerslave

Sounds like your okay then.

 dave

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, the Bithead does not have a separate line out, but I do remember reading the FAQ from Headroom that said while it doesn't have a separate line out, headphone out is just as good except for a little bit of distortion being possible. It does not mention anything about double amping. I don't listen to particularly loud volumes (my Bithead volume is set around 3/4 while my EF1 is around 10 o'clock) or anything, so is it safe to assume that it's relatively safe for now without risk of overloading?

 Edit: Here's what the FAQ says.
*
 13.Q. Does the BitHead have a separate line out?*

A. No, it does not have a separate line out. You can use the headphone jack with confidence though; remember that, as a general rule, headphone amp outputs are just like good pre-amp outputs but typically just a bit noisier in terms of adding some background noise floor issues._


----------



## K_19

Thanks. 

 I purchased the DAC Straight earlier today... hopefully it will get here pretty quickly since I'm within Canada. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Looking forward to hearing the improvements!


----------



## hotaudio40

Hey thanks you guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "DOUBLE AMPING EXPLAINED"

 What you have to consider when amping is what you are doing.

 Each "amp" has "gain" and gains multiply.... In fact amps are just gain devices...

 So say AMP1 has an output of 2 Volts RMS as many DACs do...
 And say AMP2 like say an EF1 has a gain of 3 (I'm just guessing)...

 Then your maximum output voltage will be 2 Volts X 3 or 6 Volts RMS. (Assuming AMP2 is capable of an output of 6 Volts RMS)

 Now depending on your headphones this may already be way too much like in some 16 Ohm IEMs.

 That would be 6VoltsX6Volts/16Ohms or 2.25 Watts!!! 

 Most headphones can only handle 200mWatts MAX!!!

 or .2 Watts!!!

 So that would be a BIG ISSUE and you'd smoke those headphones fast at max volume.

 IEMs can only handle way less then that, just a few milliWatts, like 20ish...


 Example #2

 You've got 32 Ohm headphones and have a DAC that puts out 2 Volts RMS.

 Well in 99% of the cases... You're already done. (Assuming your DAC can drive 32 Ohm loads, some can't)

 No amp needed as most 32 Ohm headphones are very efficient.

 Example #3

 You've got 300 Ohm headphones.
 You've got a DAC or MP3 player putting out about .65 Volts RMS.

 So your power into your 300 Ohm headphones is 1.4 milliWatts...

 In some cases that is still enough as headphones are very efficient.

 But the headphones say are rated for 200 mW of power.

 Well to get 200 mW into 300 Ohm headphones you'd need about 8 Volts RMS.

 So since you've got .65 Volts RMS coming out of your DAC or MP3 player,
 and you need 8 Volts RMS to MAX out your 300 Ohm headphones ( and I mean max out...)

 You'd need an amp with a gain of 8/.65 or 12....

 Now not too many amps have gains of 12 , that is a lot from my experience...

 So you MAY need to double amp that or may not depending on the amplifier.

 Specs are almost always given with amplifiers...

 And not ONLY would you need an amplifier with a gain of 12 ,

 You'd also need to have an amp capable of putting out 8 Volts RMS.

 8 Volts RMS translates roughly into 23 Volts Peak to Peak so your not going to get that out of your standard portable headphone amps, or out of most AC powered headphone amps.

 But you CAN get high gain, high voltage amps for driving 300 Ohm loads, as that is what they are designed for....


 For most applications I find 2 Volts RMS into headphones is PLEANTY of power.
 For the other 20% you need about 4 Volts RMS

 and for the final 5% you need the 8 Volts RMS.

 So you have to consider these factors:

 The impedance, efficiency, and maximum power of your headphones ( ie 32 Ohms, 110dB @ 1mW, 200mW max.)
 The power, minimum load, and gain of your amplifier. ( ie 200mW, 16 Ohms, Gain of 3 )
 The voltage going into your amplifier. ( output of DAC = 2 Volts RMS, output of MP3 player = .65 Volts RMS )


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UTF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems Fubar II also uses PCM2702. How will STRAIGHT compare to Fubar? They also cost about same._

 


 That's a good question, and not one that I can answer firsthand (as I don't have a Fubar II). 

 I do know that the Dac Straight was a noticeable step up over the USB1/2705 based dac. I also know that the DS is supposed to be the purest form of the 2702 you can get. 

 The Fubar II uses a roll-able OPA2604 on the analog output. 

 My armchair guess would be the DS would be more accurate or less prone to distortion when amped as it isn't being double amped (see above). On the flip side, the Fubar would put out more power and you could tailor the sound towards your phones even more (although the amp you're hooking the fubar up to might have rolling options).


----------



## CTechKid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wenglish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a good question, and not one that I can answer firsthand (as I don't have a Fubar II). 

 I do know that the Dac Straight was a noticeable step up over the USB1/2705 based dac. I also know that the DS is supposed to be the purest form of the 2702 you can get. 

 The Fubar II uses a roll-able OPA2604 on the analog output. 

 My armchair guess would be the DS would be more accurate or less prone to distortion when amped as it isn't being double amped (see above). On the flip side, the Fubar would put out more power and you could tailor the sound towards your phones even more (although the amp you're hooking the fubar up to might have rolling options)._

 


 I myself have not auditioned the FubarII either, but I have read issues regarding noise from the wallwart power feed. To get a totally clean sound Firestone recommends the 'Supplier' unit... an additional cost. Just something to keep in mind.


----------



## UTF

Make sure to share your impression. I may go with the DAC straight as well, if it is a positive experience to you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. 

 I purchased the DAC Straight earlier today... hopefully it will get here pretty quickly since I'm within Canada. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking forward to hearing the improvements!_


----------



## Mr_Tasty

One minor thing of note about the DS. If your rig is set up to where the outputs will be facing the back you must keep in mind that WHITE is still RIGIHT and RED is still LEFT... only its now flipped.

 I find this to be an odd design choice considering that most people will use the DAC with the output facing the back and the USB input as the front.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UTF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Make sure to share your impression. I may go with the DAC straight as well, if it is a positive experience to you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, I just got the DAC straight in the mail today. My review here will be with the HD650's (it happened to be their turn in my rotation) and the EF-1 with Mullard tube so far.

 My first thoughts with the unit is that it is VERY, very solidly made. It's constructed with what I'm assuming is aluminum, and is pretty much built like a tank. The overall size is pretty small, too. The connectors look like they are well built as well. My only gripe so far is the USB wire they bundle, which is WAY too short for my use. It looks like I'll have to invest in a longer one soon.

 As for the sound... OH. MY. GOD. This thing definitely blows the Bithead away in terms of cleanness, clarity, and whatever. I know with my Bithead I was sort of double amping the thing since it doesn't have a separate line out, but the difference in clarity with the DAC straight has been nothing short of massive (and this is with the HD650 not quite burned in yet and with the "veil" not completely gone yet, which is scary. Damn, how clear will my K701 be?). I notice some soundstage boost as well, not in a wider sense but in a "3-D" sense. As for general SQ, I'm sure it's just letting EF-1 output the sound that it is supposed to as cleanly as possible, so it's doing its job 100% according to my expectations. Of course I haven't heard any higher-end DACs, but so far I see no reason to upgrade from the DAC straight whatsoever. I can't imagine anything would get much better than what it already gives out. Big kudos to hotaudio40 for creating such a fine product for excellent price.

 I recommend it 100% to anyone looking for a line out DAC solution.


----------



## UTF

K_19, thanks for sharing your impression with the DAC straight!


----------



## K_19

NP. I now feel that the DAC Straight is the component that finally pushed my HD650/K701 to the "reference" quality. I did not know what I was missing with my old combination of Bithead and EF1 and they sounded good enough to me before, but now I am hearing what the true quality sound should be... I'm noticing things in recordings I never noticed before and getting instrument separation as I've never heard before. I know such descriptions usually applies with upgrades to newer/superior headphones, but in my particular case it was the DAC. I would have never realized how crucial the DAC component of the setup could be otherwise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Liking it with the K701 as well. Again, this DAC definitely holds nothing back from the original source and enables my EF1 to output the sound as it is meant to fully... and the K701 truly do sound great with EF1 and the Mullard tubes with DAC Straight "freeing" them.


----------



## UTF

I have no complaint with EF1 for giving enough clarity, 3D effect and instrument seperation, but I feel EF1 lacks in power output or dynamic. Do you feel with a decent DAC like the straight ef1 improves in these aspects?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_NP. I now feel that the DAC Straight is the component that finally pushed my HD650/K701 to the "reference" quality. I did not know what I was missing with my old combination of Bithead and EF1 and they sounded good enough to me before, but now I am hearing what the true quality sound should be... I'm noticing things in recordings I never noticed before and getting instrument separation as I've never heard before. I know such descriptions usually applies with upgrades to newer/superior headphones, but in my particular case it was the DAC. I would have never realized how crucial the DAC component of the setup could be otherwise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Liking it with the K701 as well. Again, this DAC definitely holds nothing back from the original source and enables my EF1 to output the sound as it is meant to fully... and the K701 truly do sound great with EF1 and the Mullard tubes with DAC Straight "freeing" them._


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UTF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no complaint with EF1 for giving enough clarity, 3D effect and instrument seperation, but I feel EF1 lacks in power output or dynamic. Do you feel with a decent DAC like the straight ef1 improves in these aspects?_

 

I feel that while DAC straight probably doesn't have the strongest gain in the world, that the power difference it gives has been noticeable at least compared to the Bithead (and the DAC straight chip is supposed to be limit-free and max output anyways, right? That explains a lot). With K701 it can be almost too painful in that regard as already very forward high mids are pushed even further (had to go to mullard tubes to smooth that out...). But I feel it most with my HD650 which you may know demands plenty of power... with the Bithead it was only ho-hum average, but with the DAC straight it really gained a new life. Not only am I not passing the halfway mark in volume on the EF1, but energy difference is very much noticeable across all frequencies

 Again, since I'm comparing this with an entry level DAC it will most likely not apply in the same way to you, but hopefully that helped with the perspective a little.


----------



## Wenglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UTF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no complaint with EF1 for giving enough clarity, 3D effect and instrument seperation, but I feel EF1 lacks in power output or dynamic. Do you feel with a decent DAC like the straight ef1 improves in these aspects?_

 


 I used a Dac Straight with an EF1 and a bunch of tubes for a few months, before selling the EF1 in favor of a HA2 MKII SE. 

 I certainly found the DS to be a notable, audible upgrade over the 2705 based USB1. So yes, the 2702 based straight helped with extra detail and was a step up over my previous DAC.

 However, paired with the EF1, I could never get a sound that was 100% satisfactory. It might have been synergy problems (I never really liked the EF1 with my Ultrasones and the modded W1000s played most of my library nicely, but not all) or it might have just been the amp. For me it wasn't a lack in power--I could barely turn the knob past channel imbalance range with the EF1. There was a lack of dynamics (compared to the Meier, at least) and there was a definite lack of speed. Mostly, I felt the EF1 had a generally flabby and uninteresting bottom end and, with certain tubes, it was just too polite for me.

 So, yes, the DS helped the EF1 in my listening. However, the EF1 wasn't the answer for me--it sounds like it might be for you. The DS has a low power output, however, as it's entirely unbuffered. So if you're having power issues you might want to look into a buffered dac.


----------



## UTF

Thank you, K_19 and Wenglish, for your inputs. So would Supreme be a better choice in order to get more dynamics from ef1? Would that be counted as double amp?


----------



## Qonmus

Just wanted to chime in with some input on hotaudio40's BitPerfect DAC.

 I bought this because I did not have an amp, and I don't plan on getting one for a while. I ordered this when I ordered my SR225's.

 My new headphones arrived first so I listened to them out of my iPod until the bit perfect arrived. When I plugged it in and fired it up I was a little less than impressed; I'm not very good at describing sound, but it sounded a little dull to me. I read the instructions and it recommended at least a few hours to burn in, so I did that, and I was still slightly underwhelmed. Today is day 6, and I must say it sounds much, much better now. One of the best 100$ dollar upgrades I've ever made on a computer, and its nice to know that this is one upgrade that won't be obsolete in 8 months. I haven't listened to many higher end DACs, but this one sounds pretty damn good to me. 

 Also wanted to say something about the shipping - I am in the U.S., and this was shipping from Canada, so I was expecting a long wait; it came on the 6th business day, which is pretty good imo.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UTF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you, K_19 and Wenglish, for your inputs. So would Supreme be a better choice in order to get more dynamics from ef1? Would that be counted as double amp?_

 


 I think after the DAC Straight, rest of the sound signature will be purely upto EF1 and the tubes in your EF1. DAC Straight seemed to do all the detail retrieval (as well as getting rid of all the little distortions) that I was missing when I was "double amping" the EF1 with my Total Bithead, but otherwise the sound signature seemed to have stayed true to the EF1 and whatever Tubes I was using at the time. I found the DAC straight to be much more brighter/more detailed than T.Bithead, which was IMO on the warm side. As I mainly use the Mullard short plate tube now (which is a warm yet very mid-detail oriented tube), it synergizes decently with both my HD650 (it really brought the mids out of the veil, even though highs are still somewhat rolled off) and the K701 (which needs all the warmness they can get). 

 So in all I think it'll come down to your tube choices and the headphones you have.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_NP. I now feel that the DAC Straight is the component that finally pushed my HD650/K701 to the "reference" quality. I did not know what I was missing with my old combination of Bithead and EF1 and they sounded good enough to me before, but now I am hearing what the true quality sound should be... I'm noticing things in recordings I never noticed before and getting instrument separation as I've never heard before. I know such descriptions usually applies with upgrades to newer/superior headphones, but in my particular case it was the DAC. I would have never realized how crucial the DAC component of the setup could be otherwise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Liking it with the K701 as well. Again, this DAC definitely holds nothing back from the original source and enables my EF1 to output the sound as it is meant to fully... and the K701 truly do sound great with EF1 and the Mullard tubes with DAC Straight "freeing" them._

 

I couldn't agree with you more. My DAC Straight coupled with my Grado RA1 amp and RS1 headphones are truly phenomenal!


----------



## myk7000

How does the dac straight do against dacs on the D10, apogee duet, and pico?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *myk7000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the dac straight do against dacs on the D10, apogee duet, and pico?_

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are combination DAC/Amps, so if you want to run these into an existing amp, you will be effectively double amping. This could colour the sound...I feel with hifi, less is more.

 The DAC straight is just a DAC with zero amplification.


----------



## K_19

Apparently the DAC chip in Pico is supposed to be superior to the one used in DAC Straight, which is apparently great but still not top of the line. Then again, Pico is $500+ as well as being a DAC/Amp combo (though DAC only version exists, I believe it's not too much cheaper), so the comparison is unfair.


----------



## myk7000

Has anyone tried comparing them though?


----------



## NilsenNorway

I ordered the HotUsb2 from Dave a couple of days ago. My Hd555s are finally gonna get something better than the internal card in my Dell laptop. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yay!


----------



## az2123

Did anybody notice the insane sale they're having right now? Right now, I'm having trouble deciding between the DAC Destroyer ($69 on sale, originally $129) and the DAC Straight ($105 on sale, originally $249).
 My setup will be Laptop -> DAC (either Destroyer or Straight) -> X-Can V2 -> SR225i.
 They both have line level RCA outputs (I believe), so it's just a question of whether the extra $35 is worth it in my setup. Has anybody heard both and can offer a direct comparison?


----------



## Anvil

I did! I did! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And while I'm at it, is the only difference between the HotUSB1 or 2 and the Destroyer just the fact that the latter has RCA connectors while the former only has a headphone jack?


----------



## az2123

Couldn't wait so I just ordered a DAC Straight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anvil, according to the hotaudio.com page, the HotUSB1 has a "neutral" sound sig, whereas the HotUSB2 and the DAC Destroyer have "warm" sound sigs. Hope this helps.


----------



## Anvil

Yeah I noticed that too, but I just wanted to confirm the connector difference bit.


----------



## NilsenNorway

Got the HotUsb2 from Dave in the mail today. Its a great little dac/amp for my HD555s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still not broken in but it kicks ass!


----------



## zynexiatech

can anyone recommend which one of hotaudio40's amps would be suitable for my sennheiser HD595's ideally powered via battery or USB as ill mainly have it hooked up via usb from my laptop or xbox 360.


----------



## 1Time

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zynexiatech* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can anyone recommend which one of hotaudio40's amps would be suitable for my sennheiser HD595's ideally powered via battery or USB as ill mainly have it hooked up via usb from my laptop or xbox 360._

 

Welcome.

 There's not a one of them that is not suitable. So you can take your pick.


----------



## zynexiatech

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1Time* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome.

 There's not a one of them that is not suitable. So you can take your pick._

 

Right ok then I need one that has a volume control and ideally phono inputs although thats not to much of a necessity as I can get a phono to 3.5mm cable for the input.

 I was looking at the BIT PERFECT USB DAC but Dave replied to me on ebay and said that it wont work with the xbox 360 usb ports. I have replied back asking what he would recommend me as really this will be my main use but ill also use it on my laptop to power the HD595's, unless the DAC could be powered via a AC USB adapter of some sort? or am I getting all confused! I am new to all this.


----------



## 1Time

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zynexiatech* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right ok then I need one that has a volume control and ideally phono inputs although thats not to much of a necessity as I can get a phono to 3.5mm cable for the input.

 I was looking at the BIT PERFECT USB DAC but Dave replied to me on ebay and said that it wont work with the xbox 360 usb ports. I have replied back asking what he would recommend me as really this will be my main use but ill also use it on my laptop to power the HD595's, unless the DAC could be powered via a AC USB adapter of some sort? or am I getting all confused! I am new to all this._

 

I used to own the Bit Perfect. It has a volume control (potentiometer), and it connects and is powered by USB. It outputs to a 1/8" headphone jack or a pair of RCA jacks. It would connect to a USB port on your laptop and work fine. 

 It probably won't work with Xbox because Xbox would need a USB port and a compatible operating system, which it probably doesn't have.


----------



## zynexiatech

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1Time* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used to own the Bit Perfect. It has a volume control (potentiometer), and it connects and is powered by USB. It outputs to a 1/8" headphone jack or a pair of RCA jacks. It would connect to a USB port on your laptop and work fine. 

 It probably won't work with Xbox because Xbox would need a USB port and a compatible operating system, which it probably doesn't have._

 

Cheers 1Time so I am guessing none of the DACs will work with my xbox 360 and also they cannot be powered via a USB power adapter? If this is the case I will have to go for either the ICEHEAD or THUNDERBOLT headphone amplifiers, will these still go well with the Senn HD595's or can you recommend something else at a similar price range.

 Cheers.


----------



## eXelero

for my home stereo system I am still using the hotaudio DAC Destroyer. works pretty fine, especially at the price I payed for it.

 having this initial good experience, I've ordered another device by hotaudio, this time it was a DAC/Amp combo: the Bit Perfect. the price was indeed very low, since I was a returning customer, but it had a bad flaw which I couldn't tolerate (the volume button did a weird noise when I was turning volume up/down). the other problem was that even if I had easy to drive cans, I found the volume at maxed out level not sufficient for me (no separate power for amplification, but only the one from the USB)...
 so I decided to change, and I went for the new D2+ iBasso. that was when I realized that they are in 2 different leagues regarding the produced sound.

 anyway, I think the hotaudio products are OK for a first contact with the DAC(/Amp) scene - especially since you can get good prices.


----------



## Nirvana1000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *az2123* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did anybody notice the insane sale they're having right now? Right now, I'm having trouble deciding between the DAC Destroyer ($69 on sale, originally $129) and the DAC Straight ($105 on sale, originally $249).
 My setup will be Laptop -> DAC (either Destroyer or Straight) -> X-Can V2 -> SR225i.
 They both have line level RCA outputs (I believe), so it's just a question of whether the extra $35 is worth it in my setup. Has anybody heard both and can offer a direct comparison?_

 

 YUP!They are having a great sale going on now!I'm just researching their DACs and deciding if which one to buy.


----------



## Nirvana1000

I'm assuming most of his DACs have a true line out.When i had my D2 it had a fantastic DAC.I'm wondering how they compare to the D2.


----------



## Nirvana1000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eXelero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_for my home stereo system I am still using the hotaudio DAC Destroyer. works pretty fine, especially at the price I payed for it.

 having this initial good experience, I've ordered another device by hotaudio, this time it was a DAC/Amp combo: the Bit Perfect. the price was indeed very low, since I was a returning customer, but it had a bad flaw which I couldn't tolerate (the volume button did a weird noise when I was turning volume up/down). the other problem was that even if I had easy to drive cans, I found the volume at maxed out level not sufficient for me (no separate power for amplification, but only the one from the USB)...
 so I decided to change, and I went for the new D2+ iBasso. that was when I realized that they are in 2 different leagues regarding the produced sound.

 anyway, I think the hotaudio products are OK for a first contact with the DAC(/Amp) scene - especially since you can get good prices._

 

 Can you elaborate on "they are in 2 different leagues"?


----------



## LaserWolf

Hello everyone, I'm having a problem. I've had my Hotusb1 now for over a year and it has worked great up until recently. Just last week I started getting massive amounts of digital noise through the unit whenever I would move or click the mouse, or even when web pages were loading. I Emailed Dave and he said that it was probably just computer noise. My question is; do any of you have any suggestions on how to go about fixing this problem, it's really quite frustrating and annoying. Thanks for the help.


----------



## 1Time

Simple. You hook the HotUSB1 up to another PC to see whether you get the same problem or not. It's either your PC or the HotUSB1. If the later, deal with Dave. Then be sure to post the results back here.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaserWolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello everyone, I'm having a problem. I've had my Hotusb1 now for over a year and it has worked great up until recently. Just last week I started getting massive amounts of digital noise through the unit whenever I would move or click the mouse, or even when web pages were loading. I Emailed Dave and he said that it was probably just computer noise. My question is; do any of you have any suggestions on how to go about fixing this problem, it's really quite frustrating and annoying. Thanks for the help._


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1Time* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Simple. You hook the HotUSB1 up to another PC to see whether you get the same problem or not. It's either your PC or the HotUSB1. If the later, deal with Dave. Then be sure to post the results back here._

 

+1 preferably to a laptop running on battery to eliminate AC as a source.


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1Time* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Simple. You hook the HotUSB1 up to another PC to see whether you get the same problem or not. It's either your PC or the HotUSB1. If the later, deal with Dave. Then be sure to post the results back here._

 

Coincidentally... This happened to another fellow about a week ago...

 Same exact problem...

 I told him it was a 'ground loop' problem.... and it turned out it was...

 Now he solved his own problem by simply adding a "ground loop isolator"...

 I had never heard of such a device ( and you'd think that I would have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 I found them on EVILBAY

GROUND LOOP ISOLATOR NOISE SUPPRESSOR HUM KILLER 201 - eBay (item 110425733664 end time Jan-15-10 12:44:14 PST)

 They are cheap and effective, as it turns out, at destroying hum, and other noise asoiciated with "ground loop" issues....

 The DAC is fine...

 Grounds issues are very tough to trouble shoot...

 Many factors can cause ground loop issues...

 hotaudio40


----------



## vagarach

So I just received the Thunderbolt MAX, and it's tiny! I have a question for Dave about double amping. Right now the chain is HotUSB1 --> Thunderbolt MAX --> AKG K702. 

 What volume should I set the computer to? When I use the volume keys on my mac, as expected, the volume increases, so should I leave it set at the lowest volume? I've found that if I do, to get good volume the amp has to turned way up and there is a noticeable flatness to the sound vs. a lower volume on the amp and the volume turned up on the mac.

 If I set the mac to just one bar of volume, the amp simply can't amplify the signal enough even turned all the way to the right. I know the K702s are very demanding on the amp, so is it a case of the double amping being _required_ with this setup?

 One thing I should mention, this amp really made my HD555s sing even though they sound just great out of most sources.


----------



## 1Time

I suggest contacting Dave directly.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vagarach* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question for Dave about double amping._


----------



## LaserWolf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1Time* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Simple. You hook the HotUSB1 up to another PC to see whether you get the same problem or not._

 

I just had my roommate hook it up to his laptop which is also running windows 7 and there wasn't any issues at all. The only thing I've changed in my laptop since I got this is I put in 4 Gigs of ram in November.


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vagarach* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I just received the Thunderbolt MAX, and it's tiny! I have a question for Dave about double amping. Right now the chain is HotUSB1 --> Thunderbolt MAX --> AKG K702. 

 What volume should I set the computer to? When I use the volume keys on my mac, as expected, the volume increases, so should I leave it set at the lowest volume? I've found that if I do, to get good volume the amp has to turned way up and there is a noticeable flatness to the sound vs. a lower volume on the amp and the volume turned up on the mac.

 If I set the mac to just one bar of volume, the amp simply can't amplify the signal enough even turned all the way to the right. I know the K702s are very demanding on the amp, so is it a case of the double amping being required with this setup?

 One thing I should mention, this amp really made my HD555s sing even though they sound just great out of most sources._

 

Well what I normally do is run WINAMP or whatever software you're running at FULL volume...

 Make sure all the software volumes are MAX'ed out...

 Then I control the volume with the volume knob on the headphone amplifier.

 That way you get the benefit of an "untouched" digital audio stream.

 Be careful though when you first do this and MAKE SURE THE VOLUME ON THE AMPLIFIER IS ALL THE WAY DOWN.

 That amplifier is VERY POWERFUL at full volume!

 Sometimes though I do use the software volume in conjunction with the hardware volume ( physical volume knob ) and find the 'sweet spot', even though technically their will be 'bits' being shifted around and manipulated....

*NOTE: Once again I should mention that "double amping" is NOT a real phenomenon...
 It is really a matter of overall gain and absolute output voltage....

 It is the FINAL OUTPUT VOLTAGE that controls how LOUD your headphones or speakers go....
 Gain is just the multiplier of the input voltage... 
 That is what an amplifier does...

 Say you had two amplifiers...

 One had a gain of 2 and the other a gain of 2...

 Your overall gain would be 4 ( 2x2 ).....

 But you could also use a single amplifier with a gain of 4 and that WOULD NOT be 'double amping'....

 See what I mean...

 It really does NOT exist...

 You can however have TOO MUCH overall gain or not enough gain...
 And then you might NEED another amplifier....

 Basically if you're music is NOT loud enough for you, then you need more amplification...*

 hotaudio40


----------



## 1Time

The problem did not arise immediately upon changing the RAM. Thus, it's something else and not the HotUSB1. Could be whatever you have your PC plugged into that's between it and the A/C wall socket. Try changing that out for something else, or plug directly into the A/C wall socket. Or, try plugging into a different wall socket. Also, turn other things off that are near by and using electricity. Trouble shoot.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaserWolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just had my roommate hook it up to his laptop which is also running windows 7 and there wasn't any issues at all. The only thing I've changed in my laptop since I got this is I put in 4 Gigs of ram in November._


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vagarach* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I just received the Thunderbolt MAX, and it's tiny! I have a question for Dave about double amping. Right now the chain is HotUSB1 --> Thunderbolt MAX --> AKG K702. 

 What volume should I set the computer to? When I use the volume keys on my mac, as expected, the volume increases, so should I leave it set at the lowest volume? I've found that if I do, to get good volume the amp has to turned way up and there is a noticeable flatness to the sound vs. a lower volume on the amp and the volume turned up on the mac.

 If I set the mac to just one bar of volume, the amp simply can't amplify the signal enough even turned all the way to the right. I know the K702s are very demanding on the amp, so is it a case of the double amping being required with this setup?

 One thing I should mention, this amp really made my HD555s sing even though they sound just great out of most sources._

 

In general I do what Dave recommends: turn the software up to max (or near max), and use the amp volume to set it from there. I find that even close to 100 percent on the software -- like even from around 80-90 percent -- is close enough to a "sweet spot" to give good results, and that also allows me to be able to fine tune the volume up or down with the software if I need to, so I don't have to keep reaching over to the amp. 

 How does it sound? I can't wait to get mine, it's taking forever - should be here any day now, I hope.


----------



## vagarach

Thanks for the reply Dave! I have set the volume to 100%.

 userlander, the amp sounds really good. Not that I have a worthwhile point of reference, but it is powering the K702s very well!

 It really made the sound of my HD555s open up to a new level of clarity, especially with stringed instruments. I hooked them up just to test out the amp and see if it worked fine and I was amazed by how much better they sounded, I had thought their limit had been reached being powered directly by the HotUSB1, but was pleasantly surprised.


----------



## angle_sh00ter

I'm really interested in the Thunderbolt Max. I would be connecting it to a musiland monitor 02 USB soundcard and using it with DT880 32 ohm headphones. Does this sound like a decent budget setup? Wondering if any1 else can share their opinion on the Thunderbolt Max.


----------



## Shizdan

What would you reccommend ffrom Hotaudio for HD650's?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vagarach* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply Dave! I have set the volume to 100%.

 userlander, the amp sounds really good. Not that I have a worthwhile point of reference, but it is powering the K702s very well!

 It really made the sound of my HD555s open up to a new level of clarity, especially with stringed instruments. I hooked them up just to test out the amp and see if it worked fine and I was amazed by how much better they sounded, I had thought their limit had been reached being powered directly by the HotUSB1, but was pleasantly surprised._

 

The issue with digital volume control (unlike analog control) is that with digital, to reduce the volume, bits of data are also dropped, thus reducing sound quality...so 100% volume on your PC settings is the way to go!


----------



## angle_sh00ter

i can't seem to find a single review of any of these amps on any website or forum anywhere. How is any1 supposed to buy an audio product they haven't heard unless customers post their impressions on the products.


----------



## userlander

How long usually for shipments to get to NY? It's been about 3 weeks and still no sign of my amp and dac. I hope they didn't get "lost" somewhere between customs and here.


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long usually for shipments to get to NY? It's been about 3 weeks and still no sign of my amp and dac. I hope they didn't get "lost" somewhere between customs and here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

YES, CRAZY CUSTOMS....
 THE POST OFFICE SAYS 3 TO 5 WORKING DAYS FOR DELIVERY FOR THAT TYPE OF POSTAGE...
 BUT WE ALL KNOW THEY ARE HARDLY EVER RIGHT....

 I TRIED GETTING THEM TO PUT REAL DELIVERY TIMES UP, BUT THEY DIDN'T....

 USUALLY IT TAKES 10 WORKING DAYS TO THE USA AND AUSTRALIA.... 
 5 OR 6 DAYS TO MOST OF EUROPE

 10 TO 20 DAYS TO ITALY

 SOMETIMES 30 DAYS TO FRANCE...

 BUT YOUR PACKAGE HAS BEEN IN THE USA SINCE 2010/01/08...

 AS I HAD A 'FEELING' YOURS MIGHT GET LOST, I SHIPPED IT WITH A TRACKING NUMBER.... WHICH I NORMALLY DO NOT!

 BUT I AM GETTING TO KNOW THE POSTAL SERVICES IN MOST COUNTRIES....

 I HAD A FEELING THEY MIGHT WANT THAT DAC AND HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 JUST CHECK THE TRACKING INFORMATION SENT TO YOU AND GET AHOLD OF YOUR POST OFFICE....

 PERHAPS IT IS SITTING AT THE POST OFFICE RIGHT NOW...

 SOMETIMES THEY DO THAT AS THEY WILL NEED A SIGNATURE FOR THAT PACKAGE, AND IF YOU'RE NOT AROUND THEY LEAVE A LITTLE NOTE IN YOUR MAILBOX, WHICH CAN GET BLOWN AWAY WITH A GOOD WIND, OR MAYBE THEY DIDN'T LEAVE YOU ONE...

 THEY'LL KNOW WHERE THE PACKAGE IS....

 hotaudio40


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_YES, CRAZY CUSTOMS....

 AS I HAD A 'FEELING' YOURS MIGHT GET LOST, I SHIPPED IT WITH A TRACKING NUMBER.... WHICH I NORMALLY DO NOT!

 JUST CHECK THE TRACKING INFORMATION SENT TO YOU AND GET AHOLD OF YOU POST OFFICE....

 THEY'LL KNOW WHERE THE PACKAGE IS....

 hotaudio40_

 

Okay - I called the local PO, they were able to track it to *Jersey.* So they also think it's still in customs. argh, customs sucks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 2010/01/0810:06International shipment has arrived in the destination country
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay - I called the local PO, they were able to track it to *Jersey.* So they also think it's still in customs. argh, customs sucks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 2010/01/0810:06International shipment has arrived in the destination country
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------_

 

LOL, I WAS JUST ABOUT TO CALL THEM, THANKS FOR DOING THAT FOR ME 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 AT LEAST THEY KNOW WHERE IT IS....

 YOU SHOULD HAVE ASKED THEM HOW THEY SOUND... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IF THEY DO LISTEN TO THEM.... YOU'LL NEVER GET THEM...... LOL

 CAN I SAY THAT ON HERE....


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, I WAS JUST ABOUT TO CALL THEM, THANKS FOR DOING THAT FOR ME 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 AT LEAST THEY KNOW WHERE IT IS....

 YOU SHOULD HAVE ASKED THEM HOW THEY SOUND... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The post guy said the longest he's seen something sit in customs is 14 days. So they must really be enjoying that Thunderbolt Max.


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The post guy said the longest he's seen something sit in customs is 14 days. So they must really be enjoying that Thunderbolt Max. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

NEVERMIND THE MAX....

 IT'S THE OTHER THING THEY'LL BE BLOWN AWAY BY....

 YOU KNOW I CAN'T MENTION ANY NAMES....

 I'M PROBABLY STRETCHING THE RULES ALREADY...

 AND JUST AS A QUICK NOTE...

 I MADE A VIDEO ON HOW TO TEST FOR DC OFFSET VOLTAGE ON AN AUDIO SOURCE.

 NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR SOME OF MY HEADPHONE AMPLIFIERS AS THEY ARE DC COUPLED..

 MOST AUDIO EQUIPMENT DOESN'T HAVE A DC OUTPUT COMPONENT....

 BUT AS I WAS RECENTLY INFORMED, SOME HIGH END RECORDING EQUIPEMENT DOES.

 SO TO TEST FOR A DC COMPONENT ON AN AUDIO SOURCE I MADE THIS EDUCTIONAL VIDEO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




How to test for dc offset from an audio source


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_NEVERMIND THE MAX....

 IT'S THE OTHER THING THEY'LL BE BLOWN AWAY BY....

 YOU KNOW I CAN'T MENTION ANY NAMES....

 I'M PROBABLY STRETCHING THE RULES ALREADY...

 AND JUST AS A QUICK NOTE...

 I MADE A VIDEO ON HOW TO TEST FOR DC OFFSET VOLTAGE ON AN AUDIO SOURCE.

 NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR SOME OF MY HEADPHONE AMPLIFIERS AS THEY ARE DC COUPLED..

 MOST AUDIO EQUIPMENT DOESN'T HAVE A DC OUTPUT COMPONENT....

 BUT AS I WAS RECENTLY INFORMED, SOME HIGH END RECORDING EQUIPEMENT DOES.

 SO TO TEST FOR A DC COMPONENT ON AN AUDIO SOURCE I MADE THIS EDUCTIONAL VIDEO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




How to test for dc offset from an audio source - HotAudio.Com Forums_

 

I am positively itching to put that up against the nuforce uDAC I just got, which is very warm and aggressive, too much in fact for some things (imo). I'm trying not to have preconceived notions, but I have a feeling the Dac-E is going to blow the uDAC away. I probably shouldn't say that or else I'll be accused of bias later, but the uDAC is very warm, I don't see how anyone can deny that. Not that it's not a good dac, it just has a lot of coloration. 

 Are you able to say what wolfson is in the Extasy, or is that a trade secret?


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am positively itching to put that up against the nuforce uDAC I just got, which is very warm and aggressive, too much in fact for some things (imo). I'm trying not to have preconceived notions, but I have a feeling the Dac-E is going to blow the uDAC away. I probably shouldn't say that or else I'll be accused of bias later, but the uDAC is very warm, I don't see how anyone can deny that. Not that it's not a good dac, it just has a lot of coloration. 

 Are you able to say what wolfson is in the Extasy, or is that a trade secret?_

 

I DON'T SAY WHAT COMPONENTS I USE IN MY AMPS AND DACS ANYMORE BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE JUDGING MY PRODUCTS ON THE COMPONENTS I USED.....

 AND IN REALITY, THAT IS ONLY ABOUT HALF THE REAL STORY BEHIND GOOD SOUNDING AUDIO EQUIPMENT...

 NOW I'VE NEVER HEARD A uDAC, BUT I DO KNOW THAT YOU MUST GIVE IT AT LEAST 100 HOURS OF 'BURN-IN' BEFORE ANY JUDGMENTS OF ANY KIND...

 ALSO, THERE ARE VARIOUS SYNERGIES BETWEEN COMPONENTS ( DACS, HEADPHONE AMPS, CABLES, USERS... )

 EVERYONE HAS DIFFERENT TASTES...

 AND I LEARNT NOT TO GET CAUGHT UP IN TO WHAT SOUNDS BETTER THEN WHAT....

 I'LL I KNOW IS WHAT SOUNDS GOOD...

 I MAKE NO COMPARISIONS, ONLY FAIR OBSERVATIONS...

 SPEAKING OF OBSERVATIONS...

 I JUST GOT MY FIRST TUBE AMPLIFIER....

 AND IT BLEW AWAY EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING I'VE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFETIME....

 IN FACT IT TOTALLY CHANGED THE WAY I LOOK AT SEMICONDUCTOR DEVICES IN AUDIO....

 I'VE NEVER HEARD ANYTHING AS CLEAR, AS WARM, AS ACCURATE, AS TRANSPARENT, AND ANY OTHER AUDIO TERM YOU CAN COME UP WITH...

 IT REPODUCES AUDIO IN SUCH AN EFFORTLESS WAY, LIKE IT ISN'T EVEN THERE OR WORKING AT ALL.....

 TUBES BABY 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 hotaudio40


----------



## K_19

Dave, good to see you around, and I especially agree with your points about synergy (As an example, I actually preferred your very own DAC straight feeding my old EF1 than Pico DAC for my K701) and hope that Extasy is a great sounding product...

 but...

 Please do refrain from typing in all caps!


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, I type so much my hands are giving me RSI ....

 So my hands go numb sometimes now....

 it's the shift key that's doing it!


----------



## dcpoor

just wondering, what tube amp did you get?


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcpoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just wondering, what tube amp did you get? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

honestly i'd love to tell you, and i almost did, but i like this amp SO much i may buy more, and i don't want his prices to go up......

 but you can find it on evilbay and it is a KT88 based amp with 65 watts per channel output....

 and i'm talking a 1957 rated 65 watts of REAL power

 i can actually smell the rubber on my drivers as they heat up, and that is at 1/2 volume and the amp doesn't really work, but the drivers sure do...

 in fact, i haven't been able to push this amp because i know it will destroy my speakers no problem...

 and not in the usual clipping way of destroying them, but in the RAW POWER way of simply overpowering them with crystal clear power....

 truly amazing...

 hotaudio40


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I DON'T SAY WHAT COMPONENTS I USE IN 

 I JUST GOT MY FIRST TUBE AMPLIFIER....

 AND IT BLEW AWAY EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING I'VE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFETIME....

 IN FACT IT TOTALLY CHANGED THE WAY I LOOK AT SEMICONDUCTOR DEVICES IN AUDIO....

 I'VE NEVER HEARD ANYTHING AS CLEAR, AS WARM, AS ACCURATE, AS TRANSPARENT, AND ANY OTHER AUDIO TERM YOU CAN COME UP WITH...

 IT REPODUCES AUDIO IN SUCH AN EFFORTLESS WAY, LIKE IT ISN'T EVEN THERE OR WORKING AT ALL.....

 TUBES BABY 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hotaudio40_

 

Hi Dave:

 Owning both your Hotaudio DacSTraight and the NuForce uDAC, I can say that both were outstanding quality products!

 And on the tubes...once you go tubes...you never go back!


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MacedonianHero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Dave:

 Owning both your Hotaudio DacSTraight and the NuForce uDAC, I can say that both were outstanding quality products!

 And on the tubes...once you go tubes...you never go back!_

 

Hey thanks for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Go back to what.....


----------



## Shizdan

What would have the best synergy with the HD650's for headphone amp's from Hotaudio?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey thanks for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Go back to what.....




_

 

Solid state amps!


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MacedonianHero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Solid state amps!_

 

Well the tube amplifier has set a NEW benchmark for me to work towards....

 I mean as far as DACs go.... Can't see building a TUBE DAC, but they do sell DACs with tube outputs.....

 But now a solid state amp that COULD sound like a tube amplifier....

 There's the challenge....

 I see it coming but only from one angle......


 hotaudio40


----------



## LeonWho

Just received a HotAudio HOTUSB1 DAC I bought from another Head-Fier.

 This is my first DAC, but I can see why so many audiophiles spend thousands of dollars on DACs.

 I love it. In my opinion, it's miles ahead of onboard audio. Once again, this is my first DAC, so others may have different impressions. It also has great synergy with my Alessandro MS1000i, which is always good.

 I do have a question though. What DAC chip does my version use? I do realize that HotAudio no longer publicizes their chips, but I do believe that I have an older version of the HOTUSB1: the one where the USB input and the headphone output are on the same side with no LED.

 Thanks!
 Leon


----------



## hotaudio40

Go to your "device manager" and then open up the "sound, video and game controllers" icon.

 Then double click the USB SPEAKERS icon.

 You will find the information on the DAC there.

 The early HOTUSB1s used PCM2074 and had NO LED....

 As I was a minimalist trying to maximize sound quality...

 After getting so many people telling me to add an LED...

 I eventually broke down and added one....

 The newer HOTUSB1s come with PCM2705s and PCM2704 as an option.

 hotaudio40


----------



## LeonWho

Hmm. Going under Hardware Ids, it says:  Quote:


 USB\VID_08BB&PID_2705&REV_0100&MI_00 
 

Does that mean it's using the PCM2705 chip? I'm positive that there isn't a LED.

 Thanks!
 Leon


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeonWho* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm. Going under Hardware Ids, it says: 

 Does that mean it's using the PCM2705 chip? I'm positive that there isn't a LED.

 Thanks!
 Leon_

 

Yes, that means it has a PCM2705 BURR BROWN DAC IC.

 Are you sure there is no LED... ???


----------



## LeonWho

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, that means it has a PCM2705 BURR BROWN DAC IC.

 Are you sure there is no LED... ??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Positive. Just checked again.


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeonWho* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Positive. Just checked again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I use SUPER HIGH FIDELITY LEDs that the naked eye cannot see...


----------



## userlander

Shipment arrived! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 1 Thunderbolt Max headphone amp
 1 DAC-Extasy DAC

 It's obviously way too early to make any really useful comments, but I turned angle_shooter on to the T-bolt Max sight unseen, based only on the excellent SQ and performance of the RM-1, so just wanted to say to that I think you are going to be *very* happy that you went with this amp. Even out of the box this thing has met if not exceeded my initial expectations. "Sounds good, man!" 

 Now I'm just going to give it a hundred hours or so of burn in, along with the nuforce uDAC (though someone said that didn't really change much after even 1 month of burning in), and then do some comparisons. Both DACs compare VERY FAVORABLY so far - it looks like we have two strong winners on our hands - but I don't want to get too ahead of myself. On to burn-in. 

 cheers dave!


----------



## K_19

Does the Extasy have a headphone out or is it a pure DAC like the DAC Straight?


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the Extasy have a headphone out or is it a pure DAC like the DAC Straight?_

 

It has a headphone out.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It has a headphone out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nice. Looking forward to your Extasy/uDAC comparisons, since they seem to be in the same category (performance, design, and hopefully price wise).


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice. Looking forward to your Extasy/uDAC comparisons, since they seem to be in the same category (performance, design, and hopefully price wise)._

 

I simply can't believe the price performance ratios that are available these days. I'm sitting here listening to these DACs, and I'm just marveling at the high quality that's out there for the money today. There's nothing "budget" about this gear at all -- all except for the price, that is. And that's the way it should be, imo!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Yeah, Wolfson and Sabre DAC's for under $100 is great now.


----------



## userlander

hmm, this is strange. dmesg is reporting the DAC-Extasy as a Burr-Brown TI chip - is the "wolfson" just a varient or subcategory of Burr-Brown? 

 V-DAC: Quote:


 input: Burr-Brown from TI USB Audio DAC as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.1/usb3/3-2/3-2:1.2/input/input38
 generic-usb 0003:08BB:2706.001E: input,hidraw0: USB HID v1.00 Device [Burr-Brown from TI USB Audio DAC ] on usb-0000:00:1d.1-2/input2 
 

uDAC: Quote:


 input: Vendor strings are placed here. Nuforce µDAC as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.1/usb3/3-2/3-2:1.2/input/input39
 generic-usb 0003:08BB
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




A48.001F: input,hidraw0: USB HID v1.00 Device [Vendor strings are placed here. Nuforce µDAC ] on usb-0000:00:1d.1-2/input2 
 

DAC-Extasy: Quote:


 input: Burr-Brown from TI USB Audio DAC as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.1/usb3/3-2/3-2:1.2/input/input40
 generic-usb 0003:08BB:2705.0020: input,hidraw0: USB HID v1.00 Device [Burr-Brown from TI USB Audio DAC ] on usb-0000:00:1d.1-2/input2 
 

Whatever it is, it sounds pretty good, but I was under the impression this was a wolfson-based DAC.


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm, this is strange. dmesg is reporting the DAC-Extasy as a Burr-Brown TI chip - is the "wolfson" just a varient or subcategory of Burr-Brown? 

 V-DAC:

 uDAC:

 DAC-Extasy:

 Whatever it is, it sounds pretty good, but I was under the impression this was a wolfson-based DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I use a TI chip to do the USB to SPDIF convertion, then a DIR9001 to do the I2S convertion, then on to the WOLFSON DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You get the best of all possible worlds, as well you get the longevity of the TI chip for future upgraded of WINDOWS OS....

 I am wondering....
 Does it sound better now that you know it has a WOLFSON DAC ????? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hotaudio40


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, Wolfson and Sabre DAC's for under $100 is great now._

 

Not great for the sellers


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hotaudio40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use a TI chip to do the USB to SPDIF convertion, then a DIR9001 to do the I2S convertion, then on to the WOLFSON DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You get the best of all possible worlds, as well you get the longevity of the TI chip for future upgraded of WINDOWS OS....

 hotaudio40_

 

Okay - sounds good - thanks for explaining. 

 And when I say "sounds good," it sounds good! For everyone who has been following the uDAC thread, we are talking here about another DAC that is easily in the same class as the nuforce. Definitely apples to apples. They each just have a slightly different flavor, as we would expect from the different chips. The V-DAC (at 3x the price) is more expansive and revealing than both, but so far, with minimal Extasy burn in, these two seem to be in the same league, just voiced a little differently. I am totally liking what I'm hearing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I've gotten in enough trouble over the past few days, so I'll shut up now until all burn-in and evaluating is complete.


----------



## hotaudio40

lol, yes, you have to use differnt headsets, music, etc.... even times of day, as we all know the power supply mains are much quieter at night....

 That's when the music really takes on a new "sweetness"....

 lol


----------



## userlander

I just posted these in the uDAC thread - thought I would post them here too for anyone not following that one:


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hotaudio, there are TI burr-brown chips that do USB to I2S. Was there a reason to go TI USB > S/PDIF before using another chip (DIR9001) for the I2S conversion? I'm just curious, not trying to bust your balls or anything.


----------



## hotaudio40

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hotaudio, there are TI burr-brown chips that do USB to I2S. Was there a reason to go TI USB > S/PDIF before using another chip (DIR9001) for the I2S conversion? I'm just curious, not trying to bust your balls or anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Of course there was a reason 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought I would go with one of the most popular TI chips that had the USB to SPDIF function, that way in case somebody where to say, oh I don't know, maybe use a different version of windows say... then the DAC would still self install....

 Basically to protect my DACs' shelf-life and usability between all the different OS'es out there....

 Since I don't, and probably can't write my own drivers, I rely on the built in Windows drivers, which is probably a better idea anyways...

 So going with the most popular CHIP just seemed like a good idea....

 I had looked at TI's little USB to SPDIF chip and thought about using it as well...

 I can't remember the number off hand, but it looked like a nice little unit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And of course TI also sells chips with built in USB to I2S functions as well, and they are very nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I just went with this option.

 There are SO many options out there...

 Oh yes, And I also wanted to use the DIR9001 chip, it is VERY expensive compared to the rest, but I'm pretty sure its' limited 'jitter' makes it worth the extra bucks...

 I didn't really believe that "you" could hear a 20ppm difference in jitter, but I think I was wrong...

 You VERY MUCH CAN hear the difference, and in another SPDIF ONLY DAC I make, it is even more pronounced as that particular DAC (which I can't name) has a 'wave shaper' or 'buffer' stage for the incoming SPDIF signal.

 That buffer "squares up" the digital information before it is feed to the DIR9001....

 And here AGAIN, you CAN hear the difference it makes.... just feeding the SPDIF to I2S converter nice clean square waves....

 Who would have thought....

 hotaudio40


----------



## userlander

This is a very sweet sounding DAC. I'm listening to Handl "Watermusic" now and the performance is simply top notch. There is superb clarity and a great sense of "coherence" or balance - everything sounds natural and perfectly balanced throughout the entire freq. spectrum. I'm having a hard time finding any flaw at this price point. Excellent instrument separation, and very realistic soundstage. 

 Like I said, I don't want to do to much reviewing without more break-in, chance to evaluate, etc. but it's just hard to not say anything at all. On closer listening, this might actually be in a slightly higher class than the uDAC -- when you start getting down to the finer points, it feels more "serious" and seems like a bit of step up rather than sideways. Aside from all that lower mid stuff that's pretty much been beaten to death by now, the highs between the two are different, seeming to have a better clarity on the Extasy (strings sound subtly more "real") and something is different in the mids/upper mids, too, with the Extasy being a little more authoritative and fuller sounding there. I can't tell if that's because that area is very slightly recessed on the uDAC compared to its boosted lower mids, so it sounds more forward on the Extasy compared to the uDAC, or if it is in fact part of the Extasy "sound signature." I would expect more the former, because on its own it just sounds so balanced. Tonight I'll reference it against the V-DAC to try to get a better sense of what's going on there. But man, it just sounds fantastic. I plan to do the bulk of the listening this weekend, but even without any more reviewing it's clear this is a very strong and great sounding "mid level" DAC. Very impressive.


----------



## K_19

Your description of it sounds very Pico DAC-ish. It would it a great accomplishment if Dave indeed put together something that sounds almost the same at a lower price! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish I could listen to these to compare, but I've got more than enough DACs as of now...


----------



## angle_sh00ter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a very sweet sounding DAC. I'm listening to Handl "Watermusic" now and the performance is simply top notch. There is superb clarity and a great sense of "coherence" or balance - everything sounds natural and perfectly balanced throughout the entire freq. spectrum. I'm having a hard time finding any flaw at this price point. Excellent instrument separation, and very realistic soundstage. 

 Like I said, I don't want to do to much reviewing without more break-in, chance to evaluate, etc. but it's just hard to not say anything at all. On closer listening, this might actually be in a slightly higher class than the uDAC -- when you start getting down to the finer points, it feels more "serious" and seems like a bit of step up rather than sideways. Aside from all that lower mid stuff that's pretty much been beaten to death by now, the highs between the two are different, seeming to have a better clarity on the Extasy (strings sound subtly more "real") and something is different in the mids/upper mids, too, with the Extasy being a little more authoritative and fuller sounding there. I can't tell if that's because that area is very slightly recessed on the uDAC compared to its boosted lower mids, so it sounds more forward on the Extasy compared to the uDAC, or if it is in fact part of the Extasy "sound signature." I would expect more the former, because on its own it just sounds so balanced. Tonight I'll reference it against the V-DAC to try to get a better sense of what's going on there. But man, it just sounds fantastic. I plan to do the bulk of the listening this weekend, but even without any more reviewing it's clear this is a very strong and great sounding "mid level" DAC. Very impressive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sounds like a great DAC mate. Which amp/headphone combo are you using with it?


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *angle_sh00ter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like a great DAC mate. Which amp/headphone combo are you using with it?_

 

I was using MS-1s straight out of both DACs to eliminate external amping as a factor.


----------



## angle_sh00ter

After a week playing around with my Thunderbolt Max I can say it has made a big improvement for my proline 550 with the musiland 02 DAC. Songs just feels fuller and more alive, punchier sound overall. Bass slam is quite a lot better too. This is my first amp so I have nothing to compare it to but I reckon it's great value for money.


----------



## angle_sh00ter

Oh and 1 other thing about it - it has power to burn! I never go past about 40% volume and it's ear splitting enough to cause hearing loss


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *angle_sh00ter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After a week playing around with my Thunderbolt Max I can say it has made a big improvement for my proline 550 with the musiland 02 DAC. Songs just feels fuller and more alive, punchier sound overall. Bass slam is quite a lot better too. This is my first amp so I have nothing to compare it to but I reckon it's great value for money._

 

+1 

 This amp has a great affinity with DT880s, or I would imagine with any high impedance beyer or Senn. Your low impedance beyer is still a mystery, as it also seems to sound really great with grados. It has a very tube-like sound for an SS amp -- rich, warm and shimmery -- while also retaining the clarity, detail and speed characteristics of SS. I think a lot of people still don't know what they're missing with this little gem - maybe they think it can't be that great because of what they think is a lack of power, like that guy in the other thread. Oh, well, his loss.


----------



## netsky3

I'm think to buy a dac from hotaudio40, it worth is better save money for another dac?


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *netsky3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm think to buy a dac from hotaudio40, it worth is better save money for another dac? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Get the DAC-Extasy on ebay for $99 plus $10 shipping, and don't look back:

DAC-EXTASY USB HIGH-FIDELITY PC STEREO DAC w/ LINE-OUTS - eBay (item 260521053379 end time Apr-08-10 13:10:51 PDT)

 You won't find a better DAC for even twice the money, unless perhaps you know what you're doing with DIY. Even then doubtful.


----------



## EraserXIV

with the DAC-Extasy is it recommended to feed it to an amp? like DAC-Extasy -> Amp -> Headphone

 or is it recommended to just go straight to a headphone? like DAC-Extasy -> Headphone


----------



## netsky3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get the DAC-Extasy on ebay for $99 plus $10 shipping, and don't look back:

DAC-EXTASY USB HIGH-FIDELITY PC STEREO DAC w/ LINE-OUTS - eBay (item 260521053379 end time Apr-08-10 13:10:51 PDT)

 You won't find a better DAC for even twice the money, unless perhaps you know what you're doing with DIY. Even then doubtful._

 

Uhm...too expensive, I've seen a dac for only 50$, but I don't know about the sound, good I think...


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EraserXIV* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_with the DAC-Extasy is it recommended to feed it to an amp? like DAC-Extasy -> Amp -> Headphone

 or is it recommended to just go straight to a headphone? like DAC-Extasy -> Headphone_

 

Better to use an amp, imho. But the Extasy has a little "juice," so you can output direct to headphone if you want. Either way.


----------



## EraserXIV

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Better to use an amp, imho. But the Extasy has a little "juice," so you can output direct to headphone if you want. Either way._

 

if i use a portable amp like a pico, will i be bottlenecking it (aka will the portable amp be the weak link)? would i be better off just outputting it direct to headphones instead of feeding into a portable amp?

 i assume a desktop amp is preferred, but i just don't have the budget for that atm.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EraserXIV* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if i use a portable amp like a pico, will i be bottlenecking it (aka will the portable amp be the weak link)? would i be better off just outputting it direct to headphones instead of feeding into a portable amp?

 i assume a desktop amp is preferred, but i just don't have the budget for that atm._

 

I've never heard the pico, so I can't really say if it would be a bottleneck. As a portable amp, it might very well be. But that might be a good thing in the case of IEMs, as Dave doesn't recommend the use of the Extasy direct to IEMs. But the pico costs more than some desktop amps, doesn't it? If you're paying that much, I would just get the Thunderbolt Max to pair with the Extasy, which together make an excellent combo. 

 The output from the Extasy alone however is very nice, and more than sufficient for lower impedance phones. It's just that you don't have amp control and would have to rely on software. But the sound is very pure coming through straight, in my experience. 

 When I compared the Extasy with the uDAC, I didn't use any amp so as not to influence the sound coming from the dacs, and neither one had any problem driving the phones straight from the dac. So I think it would definitely be enough for mdr-v6 or d1001, if those are headphones you're planning to use with it.


----------



## blofsy

@userlander

 What is the difference between the V-DAC and the Extasy regarding SQ?


----------



## RazorJack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get the DAC-Extasy on ebay for $99 plus $10 shipping, and don't look back:

DAC-EXTASY USB HIGH-FIDELITY PC STEREO DAC w/ LINE-OUTS - eBay (item 260521053379 end time Apr-08-10 13:10:51 PDT)

 You won't find a better DAC for even twice the money, unless perhaps you know what you're doing with DIY. Even then doubtful._

 

Uhm, you mean $169, right?

 I'm looking for a decent DAC and had been considering the uDAC for a while, but this DAC-Extasy also looks (and sounds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) promising. If it's really $99 I'll definitely go for it.

 And btw, has hotaudio40 been banned? It says "Banned" under his nickname and he hasn't been online for several days.


----------



## K_19

It was definitely at $99 when I first checked that link yesterday. One strange thing about hotaudio is how much his prices fluctuate with little notice or sense... I'd probably ask him directly if you really want it for the $99 price. 

 As for his ban, he actually asked Jude himself to be banned a few days ago. It's a long story, and we're not supposed to be talking about bans here on Head-fi anyways, so I'll just leave it at that.


----------



## RazorJack

ok got it, thanks for your help!


----------



## pacmantravis

I have the Dac-Extasy and can't say anything bad about it. To be fair, its my first DAC so I don't have anything to compare it to.

 Once I get more cash I am going to "upgrade" to an Audio-GD DAC19 and then I'll be able to tell how big the difference is.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pacmantravis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the Dac-Extasy and can't say anything bad about it. To be fair, its my first DAC so I don't have anything to compare it to.

 Once I get more cash I am going to "upgrade" to an Audio-GD DAC19 and then I'll be able to tell how big the difference is._

 

Might not even be much of an "upgrade." I've found the FOTM audio-gd stuff a little overly hyped (and imo overrated) here.


----------



## pacmantravis

Well, I just got a C2 and it's a definite improvement over my old Millet Hybrid Max -- So I'm not sure that they are overrated.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pacmantravis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I just got a C2 and it's a definitel improvement over my old Millet Hybrid Max -- So I'm not sure that they are overrated._

 

My C-2C definitely was. It didn't sound natural at all, like most of the hotaudio stuff tends to. The soundstage and balance was all off - the worst I have ever heard with any audio device, in fact. And the compass was another huge FOTM, touted as some really great giant killer dac/amp for months, and then when you read between the lines later you realize it was just mediocre at best. 

 It seems to be another "uDAC" syndrome, where some user with a high post count will tout certain gear, and then everyone else falls in line, amplifies the hype (no pun intended), and then everyone else becomes afraid to say the emperor has no clothes. Well, that is my experience with a lot of the stuff promoted around here, at least. YMMV.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My C-2C definitely was. It didn't sound natural at all, like most of the hotaudio stuff tends to. The soundstage and balance was all off - the worst I have ever heard with any audio device, in fact. And the compass was another huge FOTM, touted as some really great giant killer dac/amp for months, and then when you read between the lines later you realize it was just mediocre at best. 

 It seems to be another "uDAC" syndrome, where some user with a high post count will tout certain gear, and then everyone else falls in line, amplifies the hype (no pun intended), and then everyone else becomes afraid to say the emperor has no clothes. Well, that is my experience with a lot of the stuff promoted around here, at least. YMMV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's not called "uDAC" syndrome, it's called "FOTM", and I'm imagine that it does happen. But I disagree that the uDAC is FOTM (flavor of the month). It's a nice $99 DAC/amp and works well as a RCA line-out DAC. It's not a "giant killer", but I'm listening right now with Westone 3 and the sound is very good for the price (or even if they were charging $149 - $199). I can switch from my $399 DACport to the $99 uDAC and hear the drop in sound quality easily, but it does not become bad at all but just becomes not as good.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not called "uDAC" syndrome, it's called "FOTM", and I'm imagine that it does happen. But I disagree that the uDAC is FOTM (flavor of the month). It's a nice $99 DAC/amp and works well as a RCA line-out DAC. It's not a "giant killer", but I'm listening right now with Westone 3 and the sound is very good for the price (or even if they were charging $149 - $199). I can switch from my $399 DACport to the $99 uDAC and hear the drop in sound quality easily, but it does not become bad at all but just becomes not as good._

 

Funny, the same thing happened when I switched from my DT880s to skullcandies. It became "not as good."


----------



## Sparky14

I think it is called "I have a $500 DAC and I'm not about to accept a $99 DAC being decent" syndrome.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not called "uDAC" syndrome, it's called "FOTM", and I'm imagine that it does happen. But I disagree that the uDAC is FOTM (flavor of the month). It's a nice $99 DAC/amp and works well as a RCA line-out DAC. It's not a "giant killer", but I'm listening right now with Westone 3 and the sound is very good for the price (or even if they were charging $149 - $199). I can switch from my $399 DACport to the $99 uDAC and hear the drop in sound quality easily, but it does not become bad at all but just becomes not as good._

 

Well said Larry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think it is a great amp/dac and use it exclusively with my IEMs while at my laptop and I am still very happy with it 3 months later.


----------



## nsx_23

I'm thinking about some kind of DAC for my La Figaro 336 + HD650 and STAX set-up since the Zero just doesn't satisfy me like it used to.

 Any ideas how a DAC-Extasy would fair? For $99 (if I can get that price at all) its pretty tempting.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking about some kind of DAC for my La Figaro 336 + HD650 and STAX set-up since the Zero just doesn't satisfy me like it used to.

 Any ideas how a DAC-Extasy would fair? For $99 (if I can get that price at all) its pretty tempting._

 

Because of its very neutral profile, and how it's said that the uDAC -- which has a very different profile -- doesn't do well with HD650s, I would think the Extasy would be a perfect match for the 650s. I've never heard the Zero to compare against, though.


----------



## nsx_23

Hmm, I never tried the uDac with the HD650.


----------



## K_19

Based on my personal experience, I wouldn't recommend the uDAC for the HD650 unless you have a colder/analytical type of amp to make up for uDAC's warmness.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've found the FOTM audio-gd stuff a little overly hyped (and imo overrated) here._

 

agreed.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_some user with a high post count will tout certain gear, and then everyone else falls in line, amplifies the hype (no pun intended), and then everyone else becomes afraid to say the emperor has no clothes. Well, that is my experience with a lot of the stuff promoted around here, at least. YMMV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

agreed too, and experienced quite a lot of times too.

 but we all hear differently, and it doesn't make much sense to buy expensive audio gear based on internet forums feedback in the first place...it's too easy to blame other ppl for your own mistakes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 SQ is highly subjective, we can't quite all love the same gear...as we all have different ear shapes(both internal and external), different brains(left/right handed brains are completely different), different head shapes, different tastes, etc etc

 you find the uDAC a major rip off basically? well, I think ppl got the message now..."the best revenge is living well" buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 get your hotaudio guy to use nice looking cases, show the inside of his amps....and I'm sure his sales would increase


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Based on my personal experience, I wouldn't recommend the uDAC for the HD650 unless you have a colder/analytical type of amp to make up for uDAC's warmness._

 

I owned the nuforce for a little while, and ended up selling it. Just wasn't that impressed overall. 

 Anyway, back to the Extasy. So, thoughts? I can get one for $99 + shipping.

 And I rather like the no-nonsense casing of his amps. I want my stuff to last, not look pretty on the table.


----------



## netsky3

is possible to see the inside of the works of hotaudio?


----------



## pacmantravis

For $99, I don't think you can go wrong with the DAC-Extasy. 

 It is a definite improvement over most dedicated (I say most because I havent heard the STX) sound cards and all built-in sound cards. 

 So, when you look at it with the point of view of "Can I get anything better for $99", you'll be hard pressed to find anything else.

 If I were the type of person who just bought stuff and was happy with it, I'm pretty sure I'd stick with my Extasy as it sounds very nice. However, it's the ONLY DAC I have heard so I would like to know what else is out there...hence my comments earlier about wanting to purchase the Audio-GD DAC19.


----------



## Ra97oR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_agreed.

 agreed too, and experienced quite a lot of times too.

 but we all hear differently, and it doesn't make much sense to buy expensive audio gear based on internet forums feedback in the first place...it's too easy to blame other ppl for your own mistakes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 SQ is highly subjective, we can't quite all love the same gear...as we all have different ear shapes(both internal and external), different brains(left/right handed brains are completely different), different head shapes, different tastes, etc etc

 you find the uDAC a major rip off basically? well, I think ppl got the message now..."the best revenge is living well" buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 get your hotaudio guy to use nice looking cases, show the inside of his amps....and I'm sure his sales would increase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wouldn't expect much from the internal shots.

 Specs from his "best" headphone amp

 VERY ACCURATE POWERFUL SOUND
*TPA6120a2 INSIDE*
 POWERED BY AC ADAPTOR (INCLUDED)
 DRIVES 16 TO 300 OHM HEADPHONES
 MAXIMUM OUTPUT 3.5 VOLTS RMS
 VOLTAGE GAIN 8 TIMES
 MAXIMUM POWER OUTPUT 700mW @ 32 OHM
 MAXIMUM POWER OUTPUT 80mW @ 300 OHM
 ALPS VOLUME CONTROL
 THERMAL & OVER-CURRENT PROTECTION
 3.5MM STEREO INPUT
 3.5MM STEREO OUTUT
 POWER LED
 SOLID BLACK ALUMINUM CASE
 95MM BY 60MM BY 30MM
 WEIGHS 101 GRAMS

 Aside from the lovely caps and epic TPA6120a2. It also comes with a $400USD price tag and a amazing case.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ra97oR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't expect much from the internal shots.

 Specs from his "best" headphone amp

 VERY ACCURATE POWERFUL SOUND
*TPA6120a2 INSIDE*
 POWERED BY AC ADAPTOR (INCLUDED)
 DRIVES 16 TO 300 OHM HEADPHONES
 MAXIMUM OUTPUT 3.5 VOLTS RMS
 VOLTAGE GAIN 8 TIMES
 MAXIMUM POWER OUTPUT 700mW @ 32 OHM
 MAXIMUM POWER OUTPUT 80mW @ 300 OHM
 ALPS VOLUME CONTROL
 THERMAL & OVER-CURRENT PROTECTION
 3.5MM STEREO INPUT
 3.5MM STEREO OUTUT
 POWER LED
 SOLID BLACK ALUMINUM CASE
 95MM BY 60MM BY 30MM
 WEIGHS 101 GRAMS

 Aside from the lovely caps and epic TPA6120a2. It also comes with a $400USD price tag and a amazing case.



_

 

Same chip as the Channel Islands Audio VHP•2, and everyone raves about that - except when they're saying it's a little "thin" sounding, meaning it probably isn't even implemented as well as the Hotaudio amp, because the Thunderbolt Max certainly isn't thin. 

 When you're not fooled by appearances and can hear and think for yourself, you have a much better chance of finding the good stuff. But you wouldn't know that about this amp, would you, since you've never even heard it.


----------



## Ra97oR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same chip as the Channel Islands Audio VHP•2, and everyone raves about that - except when they're saying it's a little "thin" sounding, meaning it probably isn't even implemented as well as the Hotaudio amp, because the Thunderbolt Max certainly isn't thin. 

 When you're not fooled by appearances and can hear and think for yourself, you have a much better chance of finding the good stuff. But you wouldn't know that about this amp, would you, since you've never even heard it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Also the same chip used in my Essence ST. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your point is null. Just look at my Terminator amp, the appearance is rather bad, and even have typo. But it didn't stop it being an amazing amp.


----------



## K_19

What I do wish Hotaudio would do is to include better input/output options for his more powerful amps. A set of RCA inputs (instead of mini in) and a 1/4 headphone out instead of 1/8 would be great. If the amp is designed to power harder to drive headphones in the first place, I fail to see why he's using 1/8 headphone out when most of those said headphones come with 1/4 plug...


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ra97oR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also the same chip used in my Essence ST. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your point is null. Just look at my Terminator amp, the appearance is rather bad, and even have typo. But it didn't stop it being an amazing amp._

 

I don't really know what your point is, except to troll. Just because you don't know how to properly implement the chip doesn't have anything to do with the Hotaudio amp. The Thunderbird Max is a killer amp with a very rich, organic, natural and transparent sound. The people who know what they're talking about know this is a good audio IC. I don't think many people really care about what a random guy on head-fi forum who doesn't know how to implement it properly and has never even heard the Hotaudio amp thinks about it.


----------



## Ra97oR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't really know what your point is, except to troll. Just because you don't know how to properly implement the chip doesn't have anything to do with the Hotaudio amp. The Thunderbird Max is a killer amp with a very rich, organic, natural and transparent sound. The people who know what they're talking about know this is a good audio IC. I don't think many people really care about what a random guy on head-fi forum who doesn't know how to implement it properly and has never even heard the Hotaudio amp thinks about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Whatever you like to think, I have heard the TPA6120a2 for quite a while and also liked it with high impedance phones. Also, why would I need to implement any chips? I am the end-user, consumer who buy finished product, implementing chips are none of my concern.

 I know you will just continue defending any Hotaudio product by all means just like they have paid you or something, so I will leave it at that.


----------



## EraserXIV

wait, was he literally just banned less than an hour ago?


----------



## Ra97oR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EraserXIV* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wait, was he literally just banned less than an hour ago?_

 

It seems that is the case. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I don't see anything ban worthy in this thread, so might be somewhere else.


----------



## K_19

nm.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I do wish Hotaudio would do is to include better input/output options for his more powerful amps. A set of RCA inputs (instead of mini in) and a 1/4 headphone out instead of 1/8 would be great. If the amp is designed to power harder to drive headphones in the first place, I fail to see why he's using 1/8 headphone out when most of those said headphones come with 1/4 plug..._

 

Being that it is a small amp, it is understandable why there is only 3.5mm in and out.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Why was userlander banned? Same with hotaudio40?


----------



## jude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why was userlander banned? Same with hotaudio40?_

 

hotaudio40 actually asked to be banned. userlander was banned for multiple logins, including the usernames walrus1, vidranger1, and iggy-starnuts.


----------



## dcpoor

.


----------



## nsx_23

Steering this thread back onto topic...

 So, for $110 shipped I think I may well plunged for the Extasy, but are there any other options to look at?


----------



## RazorJack

Where to get it for that price? It's $169 everywhere I've seen it (hotaudio's official website, and eBay store).


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Steering this thread back onto topic...

 So, for $110 shipped I think I may well plunged for the Extasy, but are there any other options to look at?_

 

This is all conjecture as Hotaudio never actually state which Wolfson chip he used in the Extasy (not to mention there are design differences with different dacs... the chip isn't everything), but from the reviews that I've read from various people about its sound quality makes me speculate that this is actually close to being a Pico DAC equivalent... which would mean the Wolfson chip in question _could_ be a WM8740 or models a bit below. If that is indeed true, then it would be VERY hard to find something in its price range that'd beat it outright. 

 But once again, that's just all speculation on my part. Only way is to just try and see for yourself. System synergy is important as well so evaluate how your current system sounds like and how the various DACs will fare with it from different reviews. Other well known USB DACs in this range you can consider are the Nuforce uDAC, Headroom Total Bithead, some DIY dacs (alien DACs, etc), and some of the portable amp combos (ibassos, etc).


----------



## dcpoor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RazorJack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where to get it for that price? It's $169 everywhere I've seen it (hotaudio's official website, and eBay store)._

 

hotaudio had them on ebay for $99 last week i believe. maybe try the "Best Offer" option to see if he's still willing to sell them for that price.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

The uDAC does have so many great reviews, but I am still hesitant because of its non neutrality. To me it seems like the uDAC is a low risk, your going be pretty happy with it. The DAC Extacy has more risk, but might end up being better. I am kinda torn between he two right now. The Pico price wise is much higher, and I have kinda backed out of this option.


----------



## nsx_23

I didn't really grow fond of the uDac during my ownership. It just sat around doing nothing most of the time.

 I don't need something very portable, and am just looking for an improvement over the Zero. I haven't really played around with computer audio.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Is there anyone else using a DAC Extasy that can comment on it?


----------



## rawrster

I like the uDAC for what it offers. It's cheap, very portable and better than my crappy netbook onboard sound. I wasn't expecting top notch sound and pretty happy with my purchase. If I ever need something better I'll just make it into a usb to optical converter.


----------



## cegras

I'm surprised no one has torn down his amps yet. Unless he's set up tamper proof / self-destruct, surely someone would be curious enough to poke inside?


----------



## nsx_23

They don't look awfully difficult to take apart.


----------



## wallace

A Hacksaw should do it.But i just listen to mine...


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hotaudio40 actually asked to be banned. userlander was banned for multiple logins, including the usernames walrus1, vidranger1, and iggy-starnuts._

 

I find it odd why he would want to be banned.,,


----------



## jude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crazy*Carl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find it odd why he would want to be banned.,, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So did we.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_userlander was banned for multiple logins, including the usernames walrus1, vidranger1, and iggy-starnuts._

 

Hmmm.. I never realized this. 

 At least we will have peace and no more flame in the other thread.


----------



## spartan123

makes no sense... Hotaudio makes some decent sounding amps. would think he would find head-fi helpful to his business.


----------



## francisdemarte

I remember seeing a post somewhere, forgot which thread, where there was a heated exchange between HotAudio40 and some other headfi'ers in regards to his products. During the course of it he posted a bunch of all caps posts and asked to be banned.

 Can't seem to find those posts anymore, I assume they were deleted.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *francisdemarte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remember seeing a post somewhere, forgot which thread, where there was a heated exchange between HotAudio40 and some other headfi'ers in regards to his products. During the course of it he posted a bunch of all caps posts and asked to be banned.

 Can't seem to find those posts anymore, I assume they were deleted._

 

I did manage to read them...great fun reading!

 Too bad, Dave at hotaudio is a great guy with incredible customer service! A great Winnipegger with great products!


----------



## nsx_23

His stuff seems to get quiet a bit of good feedback here as well.


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hotaudio40 actually asked to be banned. userlander was banned for multiple logins, including the usernames walrus1, vidranger1, and iggy-starnuts._

 

good riddance!

 I'm all for fanaticism and unbiased opinions, but this kid had issues.


----------



## nsx_23

Well, the only thing I care about is whether the amps/dacs are good or not. 

 So, who else here has an extasy?


----------



## RazorJack

This is probaly a stupid question, just making sure, but I'm assuming the Hotaudio DAC Extasy is a major step-up over some old Creative X-Fi gaming sound card? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good riddance!

 I'm all for fanaticism and unbiased opinions, but this kid had issues._

 

Yes we all have issues, but some people around here also seem to have a problem with freedom of speech in some specific cases (*cough* when it turns out a Hotaudio product is cheaper and better than one of Head-fi's sponsor's flavor of the month products)


----------



## jude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RazorJack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_....Yes we all have issues, but some people around here also seem to have a problem with freedom of speech in some specific cases (*cough* when it turns out a Hotaudio product is cheaper and better than one of Head-fi's sponsor's flavor of the month products)_

 

Okay, I aim to do something about that nagging cough of yours, so I'm going to comment here, because I've seen userlander spout off the same stuff. This seems to be the mantra adopted by a couple of Hotaudio proponents (and maybe the company itself here and/or in its own forums), but it's imbecilic.

 So let me ask: Are you serious?

 Search these forums. Been around here much? Look at the Sponsor list. Are you seriously suggesting that nothing negative has been posted about products manufactured or sold by those companies?

 Grado Labs--through its collaboration with TTVJ on the Grado HF1 and HF2--has probably sent more money to Head-Fi than any other single entity to date. Have you never read a negative review or a negative comment about a Grado product on Head-Fi? Or Sennheiser? Or Shure? Or Sleek Audio? Or Klipsch? Or Ultimate Ears? Or V-MODA? Or Westone? HeadRoom has been a Sponsor since 2001, as has Meier Audio--have their products never been compared unfavorably to products of others?

 On the other side of that: How many products are praised and lauded here that are by manufacturers who have never sent a single penny in for advertising? Think of headphones and IEMs, think of DACs, think of amps, etc., etc. Countless.

 Your post? Absurd. <sarcasm>Yes, RazorJack (and userlander), all of the moderators here are carefully monitoring any discussions having to do with your favorite manufacturer, because if we don't keep its growing greatness in check, it might overtake the entire audio industry, leaving Head-Fi with only one potential sponsor.</sarcasm> 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Get a grip, guys. Quit with your conspiracy theories, stay on topic, understand that some may love what you love, others will not like what you love at all, and then maybe others in the community will take you more seriously.


----------



## angle_sh00ter

Well said. Userlander had some serious issues and everywhere he posed it turned into a fight. The entire Shanling PH100 thread was deleted because of his flame wars - a real shame given there was a lot of informative posts in that thread.


----------



## nsx_23

^^Can someone sticky that post?

 Seriously guys, a forum is for people to share opinions. There is no obligation for anyone to agree with every single review out there.

 Back to the topic of his amps now, I seem to be struggling to find impressions of the extasy dac. Maybe I'm just not searching in the right place. And I'm wondering how this would sound with the UE18pros.


----------



## TheShaman

I've seen many questioning the absence of inside pics and no real answer.


----------



## angle_sh00ter

I have the Thunderbolt Max amp and it sounds very good, esp for the size. Im not keen to open it up and take a peek inside tho.


----------



## TheShaman

Hey angle, glad to know you're happy with it.
 I don't think anyone is expecting the end-users to provide the pics.


----------



## nsx_23

I am very curious about whats in the extasy since owners rate it very highly.


----------



## spartan123

Well, for what it is worth, I will be getting my second HotAudio product today or tomorrow. I purchased the HotAudio THUNDERBOLT 2010 Portable. At $59.99 shipped I figured i couldn't go wrong.

 I already have the Thunderbolt Max and on my profile have posted what i think about the amp etc...

 HotAudio makes some seriously nice sounding products for the money. But, well read my mini review of the Thunderbolt Max on my profile. (obviously I liked the sound / value aspect to buy again from them.)

 I truly wish him the best in his business. BTW, He ships really fast!


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RazorJack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes we all have issues, but some people around here also seem to have a problem with freedom of speech in some specific cases (*cough* when it turns out a Hotaudio product is cheaper and better than one of Head-fi's sponsor's flavor of the month products)_

 

I could seriously care less if he spoke against uDac or Benchmark or Grado or Little Dot, etc. etc. etc.

 He was just pestering about driving everyone nuts.

 Exaggerated example:

 user 1: Wow, the uDac is cool!

 user 2: Can the uDac power my IEMs?

 userland: uDac sucks! Dac Ecstasy is the teh best 4ever!!!!!!1!!one!exclamationmark


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm all for fanaticism and unbiased opinions, but this kid had issues._

 

From all the stuffs he did, I must agree he's just a kid.


----------



## K_19

Userlander just had too much of that victim's mentality thing going on. FWIR he was a decent poster before the whole uDAC thing happened.... some posters disagreed with his opinions in the uDAC thread and it turned into a large flame war, then he felt like he was getting all the stick for expressing his opinion (to be fair to him, some were indeed uncalled for). Once he felt that he was being unfairly victimized, he just wouldn't let go of it for some reason and kept bringing it back up in other threads... he seems like an intelligent guy, but bit too emotional and argumentative about issues overall. There's really no logic in his conspiracy theories of Head-fi's interests whatsoever, as Jude has already explained.

 As for Hotaudio (Dave), as I've said countless times, his amps/DACs are great for the price and I'd recommend this products every time without hesitation... but he's also, well, a _unique_ individual... in kinda eccentric scientist sorta way (like Doc Brown in Back to the Future). His mannerisms in typing (especially his apparent affinity for CAPS and one sentence paragraphs...) and paranoia with conspiracy theories against him with various web sites, head-fi included, does puzzle and at times creeps me out... but I guess it's something I'll have to accept since that's just how he is. Not my biggest concern when he delivers where it counts, in making excellent value amps/DACs and providing great customer service.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I am going to give the DAC Extasy a try. I will be using it as a source to my hybrid tube EF2 amp. I am hoping this wolfsen will make it sing


----------



## EraserXIV

just a heads up. i heard that if you best offer him on ebay he'll sell it to you for much cheaper (110+10 shipping? i think)

 i've been thinking about trying it out, but only thing is if i don't like it i don't think it really has much resale value. i may just end up saving up for a v-dac instead.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EraserXIV* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just a heads up. i heard that if you best offer him on ebay he'll sell it to you for much cheaper (110+10 shipping? i think)

 i've been thinking about trying it out, but only thing is if i don't like it i don't think it really has much resale value. i may just end up saving up for a v-dac instead._

 

I got a good deal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was considering the V-DAC also, but triple the price its hard. Gathering form what I read, the V-DAC seemed to lack punch and speed, and not be the best for rock, electronic, etc music. I listen to a wide variety of music, but I don't want to spend alot on a dac that might be weak in half of what I listen to.


----------



## nsx_23

Speaking of weird pricing: THUNDERBOLT MAX - SUPER HIGH POWER HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER - eBay, Processors, Home Audio, Electronics. (end time 20-Apr-10 15:48:53 AEST)

 I'm contemplating trying one of hotaudio's amps for my UE18pros, but not too sure which one to go for.


----------



## spartan123

I saw that to... I gave $99.00 shipped for my Thunderbolt Max. sure glad i bought when I did!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of weird pricing: THUNDERBOLT MAX - SUPER HIGH POWER HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER - eBay, Processors, Home Audio, Electronics. (end time 20-Apr-10 15:48:53 AEST)

 I'm contemplating trying one of hotaudio's amps for my UE18pros, but not too sure which one to go for._


----------



## nsx_23

I had my mind blown when I saw the $500 price tag. I was pretty sure it was still $99 at one stage.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I think he just has it high right now because of his supply. Just talk to him to negotiate a deal. My DAC extasy should arrive soon, though I wont be able to test it much until my HD650 cable comes in. My old one broke and I am using skull candies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I am kind of curious to see how the thunderbolt max pairs with the extasy for high impedance/sensitivity cans. But first the extasy....


----------



## nsx_23

I have an extasy on the way. Can't wait.


----------



## dcpoor

I think I remember reading that the opamp used in the thunderbolt is one that only works well for high impedance headphones. My memory is fuzzy, just making sure people do their research and reading if they plan to use a low impedance headphone.


----------



## Ra97oR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcpoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I remember reading that the opamp used in the thunderbolt is one that only works well for high impedance headphones. My memory is fuzzy, just making sure people do their research and reading if they plan to use a low impedance headphone._

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/tpa...p-world-72796/
 This old thread have information on it saying it drive low impedance poorly, I can also confirm it first hand.


----------



## netsky3

Why i can't find pics of the internal of the hotaudio products?


----------



## nsx_23

Why don't you buy one and take it apart then


----------



## netsky3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why don't you buy one and take it apart then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Indeed i'm waiting to receive a destroyer dac 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But i'm too curious to see the inside


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_which would mean the Wolfson chip in question could be a WM8740 or models a bit below. If that is indeed true, then it would be VERY hard to find something in its price range that'd beat it outright. _

 

So I just received an Extasy today, and I took it apart out of curiosity.

 There is a Wolfson WM8501 in there.


----------



## sdcloud69

how is the extasy btw, looks like a nifty piece of gear.


----------



## nsx_23

I just got it hooked up to my XM5 atm to see whether it was working fine, so I haven't really been paying much attention. But I can say so far that the extasy does sound quiet transparent.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I just received an Extasy today, and I took it apart out of curiosity.

 There is a Wolfson WM8501 in there._

 

What differences does that carry vs the 8740?


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I am reading that the WM8501 is a 24bit/192Khz DAC.
http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/.../en/WM8501.pdf

 The DAC Extasy specs say its 16/48Khz. Wonder why there is this inconsistency. 
 Maybe it is just whats its capable of, now what it always runs.

 Mine should arrive in the next few days


----------



## nsx_23

So I'm listening to my extasy atm hooked up to my 336 and HD650s.

 I think I can almost safely say it blows my Zero out of the water.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I just got my DAC Extasy in and am listening to it though terrible sony headphones. (my hd650 cable should be in soon)

 I will post a detailed review when I get my cable in for my HD580.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I just received an Extasy today, and I took it apart out of curiosity.

 There is a Wolfson WM8501 in there._

 

If I'm remembering correctly (and sorry in advance I'm this is untrue), some of the amps that use that DAC include Gamma 2 and Squeezebox duet. That's pretty decent company I'd say at this price, even though of course there are much more to DACs than their chips.

 Sounds like Hotaudio has put out another solid product. Looking forward to further impressions.


----------



## nsx_23

A quick search on google seems to indicate the squeezebox does indeed use the 8501. 

 Its a cracking little DAC for the money IMO. The sound, compared to my zero, is less colored, with a wider soundstage and better vocals.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

I think there might be a mislabeling of the RCA L and R. It seems I am getting reversed L and R channels. Might be why some sounds were completely absent when switching.

 EDIT: The Red RCA on the DAC is actually the left channel and the white is the right. Must be mixed up tips, but its all fixed now. nsx 23, can you see if you get this? here is a good test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVj-fMHxW0A


----------



## techenvy

so does the dac sxtasy require a wall wart/
 and is the 8501 head and shoulders above the 2706 hink it was?


 thnks


----------



## nsx_23

Nope, it just runs off USB.


----------



## Crazy*Carl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope, it just runs off USB._

 

The Red RCA on the DAC Extasy is actually the left channel and the white is the right. Must be mixed up tips, but its all fixed now. nsx 23, can you see if you get this? here is a good test: YouTube - Stereo test


----------



## brendon

While I myself use a Hotaudio product (Hotaudio Mark IV) I don't quite agree on his pricing. 

 The fluctuations are a bit too much to stomach. I mean the DAC Extacy was selling for about $400 some time back. Now within a few months its become $99 ?

 What will the people who bought it for $399 feel ?


----------



## RazorJack

It's $109 on his website and ebay store as far as I can tell.

 but yeah I know what you mean, that guy is a weirdo. I still might get it if it's $99 with correct RCA channels (and free worldwide shipping, like it says on his website).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Now it's up to $139.


----------



## brendon

^^ Great. Still we should also consider the fact that he does make good sounding products and his customer service is pretty good from what I can gather. He offered to accept back the Mark IV from my friend who bought it purely because it hissed with his Denon 1001.


----------



## dynasonic

I just got a DAC-Extasy from him and it was a painless transaction. Expect a 1-2 week delivery time because he ships out of Canada but he was nice and easy to work with. I wouldn't think twice of giving him more business.


----------



## RazorJack

That's cool, could you tell us whether or not the RCA left and right connectors are switched?


----------



## pacmantravis

The RCA connectors are switched on mine, yes.


----------



## EraserXIV

how's the DAC Extasy sound? any comparisons with other DACs?


----------



## Hsiu

Sound wise, I like it better for my SRH840 and UM3X. although mine has a few issue with my laptop. it sound really nice for my untrained ear. it is very powerful and you need a volume control or amp for it, else the hiss and crazily loud volume will kill your ear if plug your earphone straight into it. I do not know if something 300~600ohm but my SRH840 will produce volume that will penetrate my ear and my head without a volume control.


----------



## nsx_23

The extasy isn't really supposed to be used straight with headphones as it produces a line-level output.
   
  And yes, my LR jacks are also reversed. Still sounding great with my LF336 and HD650 combo though.


----------



## evulfuson

I recently got a pair of AD700's from the FS forum on this site, and am now looking for a DAC to bypass my laptop's onboard sound.
   
  I'm thinking either the bitperfect dac/amp combo, or the extasy. Given the sound signature of the AD700's, which one would be a better choice? I will be using the headphones for gaming and music (metal and rock mostly). If I get the extasy, I might also add an inexpensive headphone amp later on, maybe something like the thunderbolt. I'd really appreciate any opinions regarding this, as the AD700's will be my first audiophile headphone when they arrive in 2-3 weeks


----------



## Aaron1006

Quote: 





evulfuson said:


> I recently got a pair of AD700's from the FS forum on this site, and am now looking for a DAC to bypass my laptop's onboard sound.
> 
> I'm thinking either the bitperfect dac/amp combo, or the extasy. Given the sound signature of the AD700's, which one would be a better choice? I will be using the headphones for gaming and music (metal and rock mostly). If I get the extasy, I might also add an inexpensive headphone amp later on, maybe something like the thunderbolt. I'd really appreciate any opinions regarding this, as the AD700's will be my first audiophile headphone when they arrive in 2-3 weeks


 

 I just received my AD700's Saturday and I have a DAC Destroyer. Got it for $60 shipped and it works great with these. I have it paired with a Fiio E5 for a small bass boost. The Destroyer is wayyy better than my laptops onboard card. I don't know much about the products you were looking at, however I'm sure if you ask Dave via email he will promptly respond to help. He answered all of my questions extremely fast and was a great help.


----------



## resonate

Has anyone listened to the Hotaudio DAC-WOW?  Or even better, has anyone been able to compare the WOW to the Extasy?
   
  I've been reading through these posts in this thread as much as I can and haven't read anything about the WOW so my apologies in advance if this has already been discussed.


----------



## RazorJack

Yeah I have a Hotaudio DAC-WOW. You can find comparisons with other dac's in this thread.


----------



## MiguelATF

Just ordered a Bit Perfect from Dave/hotaudio after a correspondance with him where I sent him a number of emails with questions about my potential purchase - and he answered them all promptly and with a great deal of intelligent detail.  Am purchasing it as a portable upgrade to my MacBook Pro source audio and won't be able to judge its qualities for another week or two till it arrives - but simply based on Dave's wilingness to answer any and all of my questions, in a timely way, I have to go out on a limb and endorse him and his hotaudio product:  it's really nice (for a change) to buy something from the person who built it....who believes in it....and who's willing to talk to you about it.
   
  Will report back later after it arrives and I get a chance to put it through its paces.
   
  Miguel


----------



## Armaegis

Dave's a great guy to deal with, though at times he does come across a bit "aggressively passionate" about audio. He makes a great piece of kit though, and while those plain black boxes aren't much to look at, they certainly make it easier to sneak in upgrades without your financial officer noticing


----------



## RazorJack

Agreed, Dave is very kind and his customer service is great. I'm a happy owner of his DAC-WOW for almost a year now, been using it pretty much daily for many hours straight.
   
  I'd highly recommend Hotaudio to anyone looking for simple and affordable, but truly out-of-proportion bang for your buck amps/dacs.


----------



## Libertad

has anyone tried his ultra smoothie spdif dac? im really interested in it for my set up


----------



## Karczag

I bought two of this guy's DACs, they're AWESOME!!!   The performance is equivalent or better than commercial "brand" D/A converters costing $400 and $1200 and $2500.  For reference, my system and standards are pretty high end (e.g., $7000 MartinLogan Vantage speakers in my living room, and another system with KEF Reference speakers in a bedroom, both now powered by this guy's DACs).  Highly recommended.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

karczag said:


> I bought two of this guy's DACs, they're AWESOME!!!   The performance is equivalent or better than commercial "brand" D/A converters costing $400 and $1200 and $2500.  For reference, my system and standards are pretty high end (e.g., $7000 MartinLogan Vantage speakers in my living room, and another system with KEF Reference speakers in a bedroom, both now powered by this guy's DACs).  Highly recommended.


 
  
 NOPE.
  
 I hate these kind of "mini-reviews" - no real info whatsoever, and nothing to judge the poster's veracity or ability to compare two pieces of audio gear properly.
  
 Very Decent DACs for the price, but did not beat my $400 Pico DAC after a side by side comparison at a head-fi meet a few years back.  And what I see on eBay might be somewhat better than the old stuff, but to beat a $1200 or $2500 DAC?  Sorry. 
  
 1st post?  Try again please.


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## Armaegis

I have one of the old DacDestroyers. Really great for the price, but it doesn't compete with my higher end gear. Currently at $40 on his website which is pretty good (prices fluctuate wildly though). Very warm sound, and decent amp section for headphones.


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