# Grover Ultimate Reference



## jpr703

Grover has come out with his new Ultimate Reference cables and is offering a great upgrade program:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...ad.php?t=47449

 I've had a set of these cables for a few weeks but Grover swore me to secrecy until he was ready to officially launch them. All I'll say is that they simply have to be heard to be believed--they're that good.


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## Gopher

Very good news indeed. I'm expecting a set of these to arrive any day now myself. I'm very optomistic it will be a worthwhile upgrade. I've followed grovers cables from the origional MK I non-srs (didn't catch the MK IIIs) to the Empress' and soon to be these and can honestly say that each new version has provided a definite and substantial upgrade from the previous. I know I'm excited!


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## Genetic

.... I lost the link to his site....Has it moved to a new location?

 Thanks in advance


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## KenW

Pics please??

 Also, I see that it's $65 plus your old cables. Does that fee include S/H and/or PayPal? Can't remember if he takes PayPal...does he?

 I also would like a link to his site. I didn't bookmark it either. Hope he's able to take orders online.


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## jpr703

The best way to get in touch with him is through the Steve Hoffman forums. Follow the link on my original post and they'll be contact instructions there. You can also e-mail Grover directly at groverhuffman@hotmail.com

 As for pics, I can't make any promises but I'll see what I can do. To be honest, the cables are really pretty ugly. They're jet black and have a shiny, plasticy looking jacket. The connectors are light weight and are nothing special to look at either. Grover's name and "UR" are written in over each connector with some sort of permanent marker. That's it, nothing fancy.

 As for sound, that's a whole different ballpark. You will see a lot of big claims about these cables and it's easy to dismiss them as hype. They're not. These things really are fantastic and if you've ever had interest in trying out a high-end cable, you owe it to yourself to give these a shot.


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## Genetic

Thanks jpr703

 Amicalement


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## DarkAngel

OMG.....new improved Grover cables! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have enough Grover cables now to wire my systems 2x over, but for only $65 upgrade fee looks like Grover UR are in my future.

 Grover UR speaker cables may also be in my future......


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## nanahachi

TEMPTATION!

 My Empress arrive today, coincidentally. but, I might have to think about these UR for my auxillary rig(s).


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## Gopher

Speak of the devil! The mailman JUST brought me two pairs of these bad boys. I'm gonna throw them in the rig to start burning 'em in right now!


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Looks like I'll have some on the way too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Biggie.


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## KenW

Just heard from him and I'll probably do the deed as well but surely one of you kind folks will take a minute and snap a pic and post it for me....PLEASE?!

 Need a look at that techflex and a closeup of those connectors if not too much trouble.


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## Genetic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KenW* 
_Just heard from him and I'll probably do the deed as well but surely one of you kind folks will take a minute and snap a pic and post it for me....PLEASE?!_

 

I just received an e-mail from Grover telling me that he has not a picture yet but asking me to wait for a picture that will inevitably appear on Head-Fi.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 So I'm waiting....

 Amicalement


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## Gopher

I can snap a shot and email it to someone if they are willing to host.


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## nanahachi

ygpm gopher, ill host


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## Czilla9000

Has Grover ever said what is inside these cables (What geometry, metallurgy they use)?? Does he have a website? People seem to like these cables.

 Is Steve Hoffman his brother? I don't mean to be cynical but...well...you known.


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## DarkAngel

The Grover UR will be just like the SR except with black techflex mesh cable sheathing instead of blue plastic. The RCA's are just friction fit but smaller than normal and lightweight.......Grover really likes these as I have begged him to make ICs with Eichman Bullet RCA and he still prefers his own model.


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## DarkAngel

*Gopher*
 Member TKAM recently posted link in members lounge for free photo hosting at his website with no size restrictions.......I will set up new album there for future photos, check it out:

Head-Fi Photo Album


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## KenW

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Czilla9000* 
_Has Grover ever said what is inside these cables (What geometry, metallurgy they use)?? Does he have a website? People seem to like these cables.

 Is Steve Hoffman his brother? I don't mean to be cynical but...well...you known._

 

All I've been able to find out is that it's techflex(Grover advised me to do a search so I guess he doesn't have pics) and that it will use the same connectors as the SR cables.

 Edited to remove idiotic and thoughtless comments.


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## nanahachi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KenW* 
_I'm wondering if he's simply taking the trade-in cables and recovering in techflex? If that's the case, I'll pass._

 

Ken, I highly doubt that. Grover is known for making revisions to his cables, and merely adding new texflex doesn't seem his style. But you could always ask him what he's doing with the old cables. I seem to remember some talk about this issue when the SR II came out, so maybe some old threads might lend insight.

 DA & Gopher, thanks for the upcoming pics & impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 [and btw, these Empress really are great. exactly as Biggie described them, "smooth yet detailed." even with loud and brutish rock (Nirvana), where instruments can disappear amongst the cacophony, the Empress resolve like champs, each line of music clean and clear, but not the least bit harsh or grating. Thanks DA, Gopher, Biggie, et al for your help]


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## grover

Guys, rest assured these are new revolutionary cables, unlike any others. In fact I have filed a provisional patent application on the conductor geometry. I would never try to dupe people about my cables. And am honest as the day is long. Grover


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## KenW

Guess those concerns were out of line. My apologies to the board and especially Grover. Should have addressed them to you directly and privately.


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## ROB968323

I don't think anyone has answered this question...Will there be an Empress version of this new cable or are these cables better than the old Empress cables?


 Thanks,

 Rob


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## Gopher

http://gallery.stainlesseternity.com/Gopher

 sorry it took me so long to get these posted. I was having internet issues yesterday.


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## Genetic

Thanks Gopher,

 Amicalement


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## jpr703

Nice pics Grover. Mine didn't come with the blue sleeving--maybe since they were still in development at the time. It definitely improves the appearance.


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## Gopher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpr703* 
_Nice pics Grover. Mine didn't come with the blue sleeving--maybe since they were still in development at the time. It definitely improves the appearance._

 

The names Gopher 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah, I think they are attractive cables and wasn't sure why you'd called them 'ugly as sin' in a few of your posts. These cables are visually pleasing and very well made, IMO.


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## jpr703

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gopher* 
_The names Gopher 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

Whoops, sorry Gopher!

 A couple people had asked about appearance so I had to be honest about what they looked like. It seems obvious now that mine just don't have that sweet blue jacket. No big deal--the build quality is still excellent and the sound is absolutely fantastic. I'd definitely buy Grover cables again.


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## Gord SW Ont

Quote:


 jpr703 posted:Mine didn't come with the blue sleeving--maybe since they were still in development at the time. It definitely improves the appearance. 
 

Not sure I understand this???

 The Grover SR original and MK II came with a blue plastic tubing cover. As I understand it the Ultimates come with black Techflex which is a nice shiny cloth material (it may have a diamond pattern woven in them???).The Techflex is generally considered to be nicer looking than the plastic tube.

 Have I misunderstood?


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## Gopher

sounds about right to me, Gord.


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## DarkAngel

Newcomers don't realize all the IC models that proceeded the new Grover UR, here are the ones I know:

 Grover -> Grover mkII -> Grover mkIII -> Grover SR -> Grover SR II -> Grover UR

 I first got the Grover mkII long ago when member Pigmode was waxing poetic about thier great performance and low cost.


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## DarkAngel

Gallery moved page 4, post 74


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## tom hankins

So are the UR an upgrade of the Empress? Or are they the progression of the Grover cables? Which are his current top model cables, and can anyone give there thoughts between the empress and UR?


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## jpr703

This should explain: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...ad.php?t=47483


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tom hankins* 
_So are the UR an upgrade of the Empress? Or are they the progression of the Grover cables? Which are his current top model cables, and can anyone give there thoughts between the empress and UR?_

 

Too soon to compare, people are just receiving UR cables. 

 Empress is different from Grover UR, it was developed with Mike Wolff using carbon fiber tech. 

 The UR is refinement of Grover's SR II design and sold only by Grover direct.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Grover believes they are better then the empress cables. He also told me that the carbon messes up the UR design so there won't be a carbon version.

 Biggie.


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## tom hankins

Thanks for your help everybody.


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## Gopher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NotoriousBIG_PJ* 
_Grover believes they are better then the empress cables. He also told me that the carbon messes up the UR design so there won't be a carbon version.

 Biggie._

 

He told me he felt the were a drastic improvement, but I didn't realize he felt they were better then the empresses. Thats exciting indeed! I'm gonna let these suckers burn in between my dvd player and tv and monoblocks for 1 more day then come friday after class I'll start A/Bing it with the Empress IC I have on my main CDP. Expect initial impressions this weekend.


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## DarkAngel

OK will report some impressions on UR tomorrow, not sure how but Grover has refined his previous design further and extracted even higher overall performance with UR cables at close to same cost.

 I did order a pair of the UR speaker cables also which have not arrived yet.

 Of course Gover is very "enthusiastic" about his designs so it is up to us to put them to the test and provide perspective of relative performance vs other cable designs.


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## nanahachi

Gopher, DA, I'm waiting with baited breath. keep us posted! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my empress sound just plain fantastic. they're in my speaker rig at the moment, and so i'll have to try them with my headphone rig next. man, if the new grover's are half this good, or even on par (or better), I am going to have to try a pair.

 any comparisons you guys can make with the empress would be extremely helpful, to me at least.

 enjoy you new cables, guys.


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## Gopher

I got the opportunity to spend some significant time with these cables yesterday and today and wanted to post some brief first impressions from the notes I took while listening. This will be in a bit of a messy/disorganized fashion and is not meant to be my final review/opinion of these cables but merely preliminary findings in comparrision to the Empress RCA cables (will re-acquaint myself with SR IIs on my CDP and post in comparision to those as well before final review).

 The first thing I noted with Ultimate Reference cables is that they seem to have a more forward/aggressive presentation then the Empress RCAs I'd previously been using. That is, the midrange seems to command more focus now, IMO but not at the expense of awesome balance, however. Guitar strings, for example, seem to have more 'bite'. 

 In terms of smoothness, I think the Empress probably comes out on top, but the UR cables presentation doesn't seem to be about that. The sound comming through these wires is in no way harsh or fatiguing, but lacks the certain 'mellower' quality the Empresses have by comparission. To my ears this is a preferable change and I find myself more excited by the music then before. 

 I also noticed that these UR cables seem to be AT LEAST as good at retriving detail as the Empress. Listening to Patty Barber and Rebecca Pidgeon (music I'm EXTREEMLY familiar with) I noticed some subtleties such as the taking of breaths I hadn't previously detected. I'm a bit hesitant to state absolutely that detail retrieval is better as the Empress cables already do an incredible job with that, on top of the fact that I might have just been listening extra closely for subtle little things.

 The voices I'm hearing now with the Ultimate Reference ables seem to be more real sounding. These cables manage to do a better job with the texture in particular which gives the music less of a 'recorded' feel and makes it feel more raw and gritty like one might expect to hear in real life, but not at the expense of a certain requisite delicay. For me this leads to a greater intimacy in my listening as vocalists take on a more human feel and to me this little change really substantiates what they are saying--that is, I'm able to connect more emotionally with the stories they tell.

 I might be imagining this one, but I feel as if the soundstage may have expanded a bit with these cables in place. I didn't think my system was capable of sounding any 'bigger' but I have a feeling it is (my girlfriend who is a musician with a great ear thinks I'm imagining this one). 
 Along these lines, imaging is spot on and every bit as good as the Empress cables--everything falls into place with a sense of rightness on the stage and with pinpoint precision. In some instances durring my listening I felt I detected music interacting with the venues they were recorded in more, however. I'm not sure this improved recreation of space might be comming from the fact that I am listening more attentively then usual.

 The final thing I noticed so far was a subtle change in bass performance. I don't think theres more of it, or that its going deeper now per say, but something feels different about it--perhaps more textured? I'll come back to this one in time.

 So far I feel this cable is fantastically good and am floored by the fact that Grover will be selling them so cheaply. I'd told myself I was done upgrading my system for the time being (and actually have been sticking to that for the most part asside from a few little tweaks), but I'm now pondering upgrading to UR speaker cable as well. 

 I'll post more as opinions form/change--just something to chew on for now.

 Fred


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## Gopher

The system I used to evalute these cables is as follows:

 VPI Scout w/JMW-9 & Dynavector 20X-L
 Dynavector P-75 (phono enhance mode)
 Musical Fideity A308cr
 Sonic Frontiers Line 1 (w/ NOS 60s era Siemens Goldpin tubes)
 VTL TT-25 (w/ NOS Siemens)
 PS Audio P-300 Power Regenerator
 Von Schweikert VR-1 
 M&K MX-90 

 The Grover UR cables were used between my preamp and monoblocks for all listening and a second pair switched from my a308cr to the position between my phonostage and preamp. All other cabling in system is either Empress or Grover SR.


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## DarkAngel

*Some Grover UR impressions. * 
 Currently using Wolff Empress and Grover SR II cables in two systems and had no desire to change anything, never sounded better. I sold off my previous reference ICs AZ Silver References and AP Solo Crystals since they were now expensive wires collecting dust in my cable basket. Never had any 2nd thoughts, I was off the cable merry go round and happy......then Grover announced improved design called UR (ultimate reference) for almost same low price as SR II, I had to try them right????

 Yes of course I did, and seems that Grover has taken the already excellent SR II and refined the design to give even greater performance. Only visual difference is black mesh cable jacket replaces the blue "smurf" jacket, ICs are very lightweight and flexible, perfect for use with sensitive bearing isolation devices (which I have).

 In relative terms not a huge improvement (the bar is already extremely high) but more noticeable than the Grover SR I -> SR II upgrade for me. It just does everything the SR II did a little bit better. The treble is a bit smoother and more natural, the mid range sweeter more cohesive, the bass seems to be largest area of improvement with more power and impact while still being very fast and detailed. My very first impression upon hearing system without analyzing things was bass seems better and music is somehow more 3D, everything sounds relaxed natural and musical. 

 All these changes are noticeable I believe because noise floor has been slightly lowered allowing more detail to emerge from darker/cleaner field. This in turn expands soundstage perception making for expanded 3D presentation. Instruments are more layered and seem to sustain decay longer, notes have deeper more complex harmonics etc.

 So no negatives to report, very happy with Grover's newest UR design and have ordered matching UR speaker cables. I will not be selling my Empress ICs since they will still have use for me, compared to Grover UR they are warmer richer sounding which may or may not be what is needed depending on your system. Somewhat like Cardas neutral ref (Grover UR) vs golden ref (empress) for me the UR is closer to neutral while empress adds a smooth warmth to sound. Keep in mind the empress cost much more than the UR.

 All listening done with 2 channel stereo:
 Musical Fidelity A3/Bel Canto Dac 2 -> Musical Fidelity A3.2CR preamp/amp -> Tyler Taylo Ref. Monitors/HSU VTF3 sub


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## Gopher

DA,

 Great impresions, I'm glad to see your findings were similar to my own. I didn't note the improvement in trebble performance as much myself, but will do some careful listening to seeif it was merely overlooked. 

 Also, I'm glad to see I'm not going crazy in terms of the soundstage being more enveloping and bass performance. My girlfriend often hears subtle changes before I do, but in this case she was unable to verify my feelings.

 Question: are you using UR speaker cable as well now?


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## DarkAngel

Just ordered UR speaker cables few days ago......not sure when I will get them, depends how busy Grover is. Also sent him pair of old Grover ICs to upgrade to UR.

 Looks like Gopher has taken the tube plunge in a big way with preamp and amp to feed tubes to now.............he will always have that nagging curiosity about finding the ultimate set of tubes, the never ending quest perhaps more maddening than finding ultimate set of cables.


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## Gopher

DA,

 Ha! I actually walked into this setup knowing exactly how I wanted to tube it and don't tink I'll have to worry too much about as far as temptations go there (except maybe on my EL84s which seem to float a bit and need rebiasing every few weeks). 

 Everyone else,

 I know we aren't the only three who bought these cables--doesn't anyone else have opinions?!?!


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## Audio Addict

I just order a pair of the UR interconnects this week. I am looking forward to putting them in my system and comparing them with existing cables.

 On a slightly different note, Empress Cables made a recent announcement on Audiogon:

Empress Cables 

 This seems to suggest maybe their was a change in ownership and direction.


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## Gopher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Audio Addict* 
_I just order a pair of the UR interconnects this week. I am looking forward to putting them in my system and comparing them with existing cables.

 On a slightly different note, Empress Cables made a recent announcement on Audiogon:

Empress Cables 

 This seems to suggest maybe their was a change in ownership and direction._

 

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...ghlight=grover

 I just read this thread and it seems there has indeed been a split between grover and wolff in the manufacturing of the Empress cables.


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## DarkAngel

Not another upgrade cycle, my Empress are just broke in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Looks like they now use WBTnext gen. RCAs and substantial price increase.

 Waiting for my Grover UR speaker cables to arrive.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Micheal tells me the old empress and grovers use silver and copper and the new design is all silver.

 I don't plan on upgrading btw (empress is my 10th cable and I don't see that it has any faults). 

 Biggie.


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## Gopher

thats interesting to know biggie. I was under the impression the Empress cables were a modified SR II with carbon sheilding. Didn't realize it employed both metals. Hmm, best of both worlds I suppose. 

 The new empresses do look like they'll be costly. I wouldn't mind trying them, but don't see it happeneing unless michael offers a grover style upgrade program (hint, hint 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).


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## jude

Some posts from Members of the Trade were deleted. Members of the Trade, please read the Head-Fi Rules / Terms of Use at the following link:

http://www.head-fi.org/documents/rules.html

 If there are any disagreements between Members of the Trade, please keep them private.


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## michaelhwolff

Thanks, 
 I agree that public forums are not the place for disputes.


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## DarkAngel

Just received Grover UR speaker cable set, will post pictures in cable gallery soon. 

 Also Grover sent me some small guage braided gold wire/ribbon to try as jumpers.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* 
_DarkAngel's *Grover Cable Gallery* and *Wolff Empress Cable Gallery* (in progress) to supplement Gopher. (thanks to member TKAM for hosting)

Empress IC 

Empress IC 

Grover UR 

Grover UR 

Grover SR II 

Grover UR/SR II Combo

Grover UR Speaker Cables 

Grover UR Speaker Cables 

Grover UR Speaker Cables_

 

Posted pictures of Grover UR speaker cables. As in previous Grover speaker cable design UR has silver wire terminations, and each red/white cable has triangular section indicating three wires.......more pictures in DarkAngel gallery if you want to look around.


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## Gopher

Any first impressions yet, DA? I've got a pair of these heading my way now and I'm anxious to hear how these fare against the awesome SR speaker cable.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gopher* 
_Any first impressions yet, DA? I've got a pair of these heading my way now and I'm anxious to hear how these fare against the awesome SR speaker cable._

 

Just starting 2nd day of break in for UR speaker cables......I sold my Grover SR speaker cables to another Head-Fi member so can't do direct comparison.


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## MikoLayer

I am really interested in this promo offer... so is it like a trade up for any cable? just registered at the SH forums to find out more about it, but it wouldnt let me view the page


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## Gord SW Ont

Quote:


 Posted by MikoLayer: I am really interested in this promo offer... so is it like a trade up for any cable? just registered at the SH forums to find out more about it, but it wouldnt let me view the page 
 

Not sure what "promo offer" you're referring to but I think Grover is only giving his special upgrade offer to those with previous versions of his cables (ie MK I, MK II, SR, SRII and so forth)??? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 Gord SW Ont.


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## Gopher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikoLayer* 
_I am really interested in this promo offer... so is it like a trade up for any cable? just registered at the SH forums to find out more about it, but it wouldnt let me view the page 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

SH forums have been acting weird with direct links to that page. Use the search feature over there to find grover and access the page that way. 

 I can't wait to start hearing about the speaker cables. I've got a pair heading my way now and I look forward to getting them into my rig.


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## MikoLayer

Quote:


 Not sure what "promo offer" you're referring to but I think Grover is only giving his special upgrade offer to those with previous versions of his cables (ie MK I, MK II, SR, SRII and so forth)??? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 
 

oh ok, that makes more sense now... thx


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## DeeJayBump

Has anyone compared these to the Audiogeek Nitrogens? If so, how do they compare? I'm trying to decide on which IC to buy and these two are my choices.


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## DeeJayBump

To clarify: 

 Has anyone compared the Grovers to the Audiogeek Nitrogens? Not necessarily the Grover Ultimate References since they're so new and I imagine not many have heard them, but ANY of the Grovers (SR, SRII, etc) to the Nitrogens with regard to sound quality? If so, would you care to comment on the difference between these two cables? Thanks.


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## Cableguy

Price is too good to resist so I just ordered a pair. Will be comparing them to my VH Audio CryoPulsar IC's.


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## DeeJayBump

The earlier photo links are dead, so can anyone repost pics of the URs--both ICs and speaker cables? Thanks.

 It appears I will have to buy a pair of the URs as well as a Nitrogen and see which I prefer of the two. Of course, this hobby being what it is, I will probably end up finding something (or alot of things) I like about each IC and keeping them both.


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## Gopher

I was just curious if DA or anyone else had impressions on the speaker cables yet. I've got a pair heading my way now and am curious as to what to expect.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gopher* 
_I was just curious if DA or anyone else had impressions on the speaker cables yet. I've got a pair heading my way now and am curious as to what to expect._

 

Well since you already purchased a pair doesn't really matter now, you will soon find out for yourself........besides you will have no money for cables after you drop 3K on Meridian CDP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Have no fear Grover will not let you down, all is well. The UR is slightly faster with a touch more fine detail resolved, plus the bass is tighter more neuanced. No huge difference, just refinement of previous SR model.(which was a giant killer)

 I suppose I need to reload all my photos since TKAM's server crashed and destroyed all previous cable pix.....will take care of that next week.


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## Gopher

yeah, yeah, yeah--I've got a couple upgrades on the way... story of my life. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm waiting on my pair to do a more formal write up on the UR series of cables and was just curious as to how people were liking them so far. 

 I'm hoping this pair reaches me before next friday so I can leave them burning in on a boombox while I do springbreak for a week with my friends.


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## jpr703

Just as a quick note, Grover upgraded my pre-production URs to the final version and I got them in the mail yesterday. There is a big cosmetic difference and the cables now look every bit as good as they sound. Grover's a great guy and I have a feeling that I'll be using his cables for a long time to come.


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## catachresis

Hey, I just emailed Grover's outfit with an inquiry about ordering. Should I expect a response in 48 hours or a week or more?

 I had pretty much decided to get some DNM lengths with Eichmann bullet plugs until I read the grover threads. You guys should be getting commission.


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## DeeJayBump

catachresis-

 When I submitted a request for info about the Grover cables through the Steve Hoffman board, Grover emailed me back within a few hours.


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## catachresis

Ah man, it's been a day and no word. I'll wait til Monday and then try againg. Thanks Dejay for responding.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DeeJayBump* 
_catachresis-

 When I submitted a request for info about the Grover cables through the Steve Hoffman board, Grover emailed me back within a few hours._


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## Cableguy

Just had the pleasure of meeting Grover this afternoon. I bought a pair of his reference interconnect about a week ago. It so happens we live about 15min from one another so he generously offered to personnally drop off the cables. This would give him the opportunityto compare his product to my current IC's, a pair of VH Audio Cryopulsar's with Nexgen silver RCA's. As Grover put it, this would be David vs Goliath. I am new to the headphone scene and have only had my setup for about a month, so I haven't had the opportunity to do any IC comparisons. Well today I received my first lesson in how much difference cables can make! 

 After listening to the croypulsars for less than a minute he asked, where are the high's? With my setup we were able to connect both pairs of cables to the Maestro, and with the same source, switch between both IC's while the music played. The Grover reference cables definitely sounded better. The VH's were heavy on the bass, lacking distinct and clear highs. Grover's cables were clearer, more balanced, and had better soundstage. They brought out the treble without sacrificing bass. I liked them so much I bought a second pair for my SDS-T amp that will arrive soon. 

 There may be better (and much more expensive) IC's out there, but for the money I don't see how you could beat the new Grover reference IC's. Grover definitely hit a home run with these.

 Grover, thanks for building such a great pair of IC's at an affordable price


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpr703* 
_Just as a quick note, Grover upgraded my pre-production URs to the final version and I got them in the mail yesterday. There is a big cosmetic difference and the cables now look every bit as good as they sound. Grover's a great guy and I have a feeling that I'll be using his cables for a long time to come._

 

I also got some of the "revised" UR interconnects, only cosmetic difference I could see was that the newer version I received has white shrink tube bands with directional arrows and Grover signature. Otherwise they seem the same unless Grover did something else, from the Hoffman website if I read between the lines seems Grover has changed silver wire used.

 Anyway don't have old UR ICs now since I mailed them back to Grover, but really like what I hear with latest version. Will report more in a few days, break in almost complete.....will post pix of newest UR intersonnects.


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## DarkAngel

*Will start new Grover Cable Gallery (since previous pix lost)*

UR Speaker Cable 1 
UR SC 2 
UR SC 3
UR SC 4 
UR SC 5 

UR Interconnect 1 
UR IC 2 
UR IC 3 

SRII Interconnects


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## DeeJayBump

DarkAngel-

 Thanks for reposting pics. 

 For anyone who has bought any of these new UR interconnects from Grover-

 How long has it taken from the time Grover received your payment until you received cables? I will be purchasing a pair of the UR ICs soon, and I want to try to get them (the URs) before my new PPAv2 arrives from Tangent so that I can allow the ICs to burn-in for a while.

 Thanks.


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## jpr703

Took two weeks to get mine which is exactly how long Grover told me that it would take.


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## PATB

But I am still confused on designations. 

 I paid $130 for my "SR-II" RCAs. They are noticeably airer, brighter, and more detailed than my more expensive Rega Couple. My "SR-IIs" are labeled as *"Grover UR" *. However, it doesn't have the UR techflex. I ordered the cables after the URs have been introduced.

 I am so satisfied with my "SR-IIs" that I ordered the XLR version of the SR-IIs for $210. I haven't had the chance to try them out yet as I am still waiting for my amp. What I received is a pair of XLR terminated cables with the same label "Grover UR" and with techflex. 

 I still don't have a clue if what I have are SR-IIs or URs, but who cares. I am extremely satisfied with the service, build quality, price, and sound (at least for the RCA; can't check the XLRs yet).

 Highly recommended.


----------



## Salt Peanuts

PATB,

 Is there anyway we can see a pic of your XLR Grover UR?

 Thanks.


----------



## PATB

Here is a pic of my Grover "SR-II" XLRs (actually labeled as "Grover UR" so maybe it is!). Sorry for the bad picture quality.


----------



## Salt Peanuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PATB* 
_Here is a pic of my Grover "SR-II" XLRs (actually labeled as "Grover UR" so maybe it is!). Sorry for the bad picture quality._

 

Thanks, PATB! Grover told me that UR XLRs are black-blue color, which looks like the colors of your cable, so they probably are URs.


----------



## RnB180

Never heard of Grover until this thread, I find this cable interesting.

 I would like to know the specifications of the innards of the cable and the RCA types used, that would create such a highly praised cable in this thread.
 Obviously the people in this thread love the sound, material specifications would be a great help in allowing me to understand the cables ability to yield such fine results according to the posters here.

 Since I am a DIYer myself, picked up this hobby to save money(found out later its not true), posts like these interest me. but even better if I know what exactly goes inside these cables. I build cables for kicks and its a form of art for me. 

 from what ive understood so far in this thread, is that its a silver type cable, while the prior was a hybrid silver copper cable (possibly silver plated copper?)
 and it uses a secret braid technique? so I would assume something other then tri-braid or Litz? but to my understanding braiding only yeilds a shield by intertwining the ground with the signal wire. Eichmann uses a variation of these and switches the ratio up a bit and gives the signal conductor are larger guage as opposed to the ground in a braid. If there is a specific braid pattern that actually improves audio fidelity to a new level, I would find it very interesting, that would probably be good cause for patent I suppose, with all due respect no need to explain the braid technique, but materials and cables sepcifications would be nice to know to potential customers.

 whether is is stranded or solid core or the wire AWG and dielectric, along with insulation material is still up in the air.

 Im a firm believer in faith, but when it comes to cabling, specifications are always beneficial to the user.

 this thread has peaked my interest.


 Thanks!


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* 
_*Some Grover UR impressions. * 
 Currently using Wolff Empress and Grover SR II cables in two systems and had no desire to change anything, never sounded better. I sold off my previous reference ICs AZ Silver References and AP Solo Crystals since they were now expensive wires collecting dust in my cable basket. Never had any 2nd thoughts, I was off the cable merry go round and happy......then Grover announced improved design called UR (ultimate reference) for almost same low price as SR II, I had to try them right????

 Yes of course I did, and seems that Grover has taken the already excellent SR II and refined the design to give even greater performance. Only visual difference is black mesh cable jacket replaces the blue "smurf" jacket, ICs are very lightweight and flexible, perfect for use with sensitive bearing isolation devices (which I have).

 In relative terms not a huge improvement (the bar is already extremely high) but more noticeable than the Grover SR I -> SR II upgrade for me. It just does everything the SR II did a little bit better. The treble is a bit smoother and more natural, the mid range sweeter more cohesive, the bass seems to be largest area of improvement with more power and impact while still being very fast and detailed. My very first impression upon hearing system without analyzing things was bass seems better and music is somehow more 3D, everything sounds relaxed natural and musical. 

 All these changes are noticeable I believe because noise floor has been slightly lowered allowing more detail to emerge from darker/cleaner field. This in turn expands soundstage perception making for expanded 3D presentation. Instruments are more layered and seem to sustain decay longer, notes have deeper more complex harmonics etc.

 So no negatives to report, very happy with Grover's newest UR design and have ordered matching UR speaker cables. I will not be selling my Empress ICs since they will still have use for me, compared to Grover UR they are warmer richer sounding which may or may not be what is needed depending on your system. Somewhat like Cardas neutral ref (Grover UR) vs golden ref (empress) for me the UR is closer to neutral while empress adds a smooth warmth to sound. Keep in mind the empress cost much more than the UR.

 All listening done with 2 channel stereo:
 Musical Fidelity A3/Bel Canto Dac 2 -> Musical Fidelity A3.2CR preamp/amp -> Tyler Taylo Ref. Monitors/HSU VTF3 sub_

 

Ok listened to fully broken in newest UR interconnects, latest model with white directional label on cables. I have heard rumors that the silver wire was changed/upgraded for current cables and they do sound slightly different although I no longer have original demo ones to compare to. The difference I notice is the lower mids and bass are slightly filled out with more body giving a touch of warmth and fullness vs demo UR which by comparison was leaner sounding. I like the newest UR version better overall in my systems.

 No regrets selling all former reference ICs since with UR speaker cables and ICs now in place I am hearing details no other cable combination yet had been able to reveal in a huge believable 3D soundstage. Everything relaxed, natural and musical while at the same time more revealing of detail and 3D space vs any other cable I have owned. Plus the price is far lower for example than the $900+ AZ Silver Reference ICs I once owned.

 That's it...........I'm not upgrading anymore!


----------



## Gopher

I just returned from vacationing to find my package from grover has arrived! I've got a pair of his new speaker cable burning in now as well as some of his solid silver jumpers (which I won't be able to use for the time being). Its probably gonna be a couple of weeks before I write the review of the whole UR series interconnects, because my G08 arrived today and I'll have to get used to the changes to my system before making any comparissions.

 So far I must say though, things are sounding good.


----------



## sbulack

I've got a Great-Customer-Service-From-Grover story as well as some initial (and VERY positive) impressions of the Ultimate Reference IC. Grover adjusted the RCA connectors on a UR to custom fit them to an AudioQuest adapter onto which they would not otherwise fit. Despite my offering him compensation several times for his time and effort, he did the adjustment, and returned the UR with no word of any fee for his efforts. I don't advocate that artisans like Grover donate their services for free, but, when they do, it is note- and praise-worthy.

 Now the UR. I've been using an IC that cost me about $70, and been very pleased with the sound overall. There were a few albums, though, that never quite seemed to sound right, and those that did required rather finicky volume adjustment (often on a per-song basis) to get the sound "just right" - and even then, some voices seemed too subdued while others seemed too forward. In other words, the sound was overall really good (on some albums, even amazing), but rarely "just right". On some difficult albums, I would sit and listen to them with my hand on the amp pot - dynamically adjusting the pot to keep the sound in the songs in my "sweet spot".

 Enter the UR.

 This is my first IC that cost me more than a hundred dollars, and I can hear exactly where the money went every time I listen to it. The first sonic improvements that jumped out at me while listening through it were the intensity/vividness of the sound while retaining its natural (live) quality. The textures in the sounds became palpable without ever sounding overdone or losing the realistic tonal/timbral qualities of live voice and instruments. As I listened more, I noticed how far out of my head the sound was, and how well each voice is placed within the soundstage - very coherent, very live sounding. Then I noticed how pleasing the balance of voices is - no more adjusting the pot within or between songs on the same album to keep the sound or the mix of voices in the "sweet spot". Back to the tonal/timbral qualities of musical sounds through the UR - blatty brass has a good bite to it, but no harshness, a whining electric guitar is both intense/piercing/cutting AND sweet/clear all at once, impactful sounds (like a solid rim shot on a drum) register as solid impact but with plenty of depth to avoid any resonance or oversaturation. And "simple", songful, sweet sounds (like a beautiful soprano voice or a masterfully bowed violin or a cleanly coaxed electric guitar solo) are richer in wonderfully complex temporal variations than I've ever been able to hear and appreciate/enjoy before - a real feast for the ears.

 And all this from an IC that I've only been using for about 20 hours so far. I normally use an IC for about 100 hours before I think I'm approaching knowing how it sounds. But my listening with the Grover UR has just been so ear-opening and intensely delightful that I had to add my first post to this thread. More coherent and organized impressions to come when the UR has come into its fullness and I've had more time to listen critically to the sound. But so far, I'm saying "WOW!" to what I'm hearing with the Grover Ultimate Reference in my rig.


----------



## DarkAngel

Grover still at work................UR improves again.

 Grover returned cables I sent in for upgrade and informed me that UR interconnects had been improved yet again from previous versions without going into any detail. I received these newest UR on 3/31/05 and they look identical to photos I just posted (post #74). Have them running in system two now and will listen soon.

 Seems impossible that they could be any better at this price level, but somehow Grover finds a way to squeeze ever greater performance from these exceptional cables, they are already better than $500-1000 cables I have owned previously. These are gifts from the audio gods fellow audiophiles.


----------



## Audiophilehi

Where do you purchase and how much is a 1m pair?

 Paul


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Audiophilehi* 
_Where do you purchase and how much is a 1m pair?
 Paul_

 

Contact Grover directly by email and tell him what you need:
groverhuffman@hotmail.com

 Current price for 1 meter pair of UR interconnects $140 plus $5 shipping.


----------



## jeffreyj900

Just bought a pair of 1 meter Grover UR's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He responded to my pricing inquiry within an hour! I hope they get here quick. I have a Woo 3 on the way


----------



## Cableguy

Jeffrey
 You're gonna love the Grover IC's on that Woo. I sure did


----------



## Gopher

I've had the Grover UR speaker cables in my big rig for a couple weeks now and just wanted to chime in my $0.02. I think Darkanglels assessment was pretty accurate regarding the additional resolution and improved bass performance. I also feel like the tone of the midrange has lost a tiny bit of warmth and is every so slightly more toward neutrality.

 One thing I'm not sure about though is these cables being faster then the origional SR speaker wire. The SR was already blazing fast and resolved cymbals, snare drums, and the likes like none other. I no longer have my SRs to compare directly to, but this is one area that hasn't jumped out to me with the new wires. Which is NOT a bad thing, these cables are wonderful performers.

 If you're looking for new speaker cables at ANY price range I strongly suggest looking seriously at the Grover URs. These low priced cables offer an upgrade over the giant killers (Grover SRs) that slayed my $1200 Acoutic Zen speaker cables!


----------



## RnB180

No one has yet to answer my question on what type of materials are used in the cables.

 there are many praises but simple questions about the cable specs are ignored? there has to be someone in the thread that knows what the cables are made of?


----------



## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RnB180* 
_No one has yet to answer my question on what type of materials are used in the cables.

 there are many praises but simple questions about the cable specs are ignored? there has to be someone in the thread that knows what the cables are made of?_

 

Buy a pair and cut them open hehe. Grover uses silver wire and nos style connectors.

 Biggie.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RnB180* 
_No one has yet to answer my question on what type of materials are used in the cables.

 there are many praises but simple questions about the cable specs are ignored? there has to be someone in the thread that knows what the cables are made of?_

 

The purpose of this forum is to discuss the offerings of the marketplace and their performance. The build/materials questions that you raise are appropriate to the DIY forum. Each vendor retains the right of ownership over the knowledge they have accumulated and to decide to participate in the DIY forum, or not to, as they see fit. Grover's open-handed generosity is amply demonstrated in the modest price of his cable offerings and the gracious customer service he provides. I, for one, would appreciate your not persisting in trying to turn this discussion of the range and performance of the Grover cable offerings into a DIY thread. But please, feel free to participate in a manner appropriate to this forum. Thank you.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* 
_... with UR speaker cables and ICs now in place I am hearing details no other cable combination yet had been able to reveal in a huge believable 3D soundstage. Everything relaxed, natural and musical while at the same time more revealing of detail and 3D space vs any other cable I have owned. ..._

 

DarkAngel has given a beautiful summary of the UR cable performance.
 On Friday, I shipped my PPA off to have a buffer upgrade, and I am using my Headsave new Classic at home as well as work for awhile. The spot at which the new Classic has always had a hard time keeping up with the PPA is soundstage - the size and credibility of the soundstage provided from the new Classic do not detract from its overall performance, but have just not been compellingly good (despite its other sonic strengths). With the UR IC feeding it, I have never heard the soundstage from the new Classic as large, vivid or coherent as I am now hearing it while enhancing its crystal clarity, and textural/timbral richness that I have always appreciated about the new Classic. The more ways I use the UR IC in my rigs, the more of its sonic beauty and strengths I experience.


----------



## RnB180

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* 
_The purpose of this forum is to discuss the offerings of the marketplace and their performance. The build/materials questions that you raise are appropriate to the DIY forum. Each vendor retains the right of ownership over the knowledge they have accumulated and to decide to participate in the DIY forum, or not to, as they see fit. Grover's open-handed generosity is amply demonstrated in the modest price of his cable offerings and the gracious customer service he provides. I, for one, would appreciate your not persisting in trying to turn this discussion of the range and performance of the Grover cable offerings into a DIY thread. But please, feel free to participate in a manner appropriate to this forum. Thank you._

 


 Hi Sbulak,

 I apologize if I offended you. Its not uncommon for cable manufactuers to post specifications. If you notice almost every professional assembler provides guage or wire, dielectric materials and connector types. Its not a big issue, Cardas is one of the big heads along with Nordost, audio quest, in a prior thread Ted Paisley even stopped by and answered the questions about his interconnect materials (Kudos to him). I dont think it pertains to DIY at all, but helps potential consumers decide on a purchase. After this explaination. If you still feel I have broken terms of use of this forum, please point it out and quote the rules in the forum I have broken. In all sincerity, I have been respectful and polite in my posts. No DBT in my posts.

 No one should be getting defensive if the product is truely wonderful, a defensive post is the result of someone feeling threatened, which means there is negative info that should not be known.

 shouldnt be too big of an issue, Im just curious, since there is so much praise, Id like to know why there is so much praise. and just for the record, No I am not trying to make a clone of anything. I already have a basic understanding how to make most every type of audio cable (within reason
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
 I dont want to know the braid technique or secret prioprietary assembly notes, NONE of that interests me. I was just wondering what the general specs were, thats all.

 catch my drift? 

 Thanks to biggie for helping me with my enquiry.

 If I have been disrespecful let me know where.


----------



## Gopher

RnB180,

 I think the person most qualified to comment there would probably be the G-man himself. I'm not sure how often he visits this forum, but why don't you drop him a message yourself and post your findings to the thread. He's a very nice guy and I'm sure he's happy to answer any questions as he is very proud of his work.


----------



## grover

Guys, I am in the process of patenting my design. It's a new design and untill I receive the patent I am going to keep the details of the UR's construction quiet. Grover


----------



## RnB180

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grover* 
_Guys, I am in the process of patenting my design. It's a new design and untill I receive the patent I am going to keep the details of the UR's construction quiet. Grover_

 


 Hey Grover,

 Thanks for stopping by. Sounds understandable.


----------



## DarkAngel

Just did some real listening to latest UR cables I received 3/31/05, Grover said there had been some changes. Hard to keep track of everything but I would say Grover had the midrange and treble very well resolved previously and last couple revisions did most to improve lower mids/bass and 3D soundstage size, and overall sound just seems more refined and coherent.

 Newest UR has very detailed fast solid bass with no overhang or bloat, sounds that previously were slightly soft/fuzzy are now well detailed allowing echo and decay of notes to be better heard. This gives overall sound lots of rythm and snap, and soundstage becomes larger and more complex as you hear faint sounds and echos back deep in the soundfield that were previous obscurred or opaque........this is like watching HDTV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway I don't know how Grover does what he does at this price level, it really is amazing. I wish I had these years ago before I foolishly bought many highly rated $500-1,000 cables which have all been sold now.

 I would seriously like to know if anyone has $500-1,000 cables they fell are better than Grover UR after trying them? (or any price really)


----------



## Audio Addict

I don't know if many of you read Martin DeWulf's "Bound For Sound" but I sent him an email suggesting the UR's were definitely some cables he should listen to. The last two editions gave his Components of Merit as well as Exceptional Merit. Ray's XR-2 was included but the UR's should definitely be on the list.


----------



## Gopher

Darkangel is right in that Grover has made some revisions to his UR series cables. I've been listening to a couple pairs of his revised wires in my rig for the past few days and they have provided a solid improvement over the previous incarnations. Overall coherance has improved with the newest version as has lower mid/bass performance--this has led music to have a significantly weightier/denser presenation and are really wonderful cables.

 Also excitingly, Grover has discovered a speaker cable configuration which he feels is near perfection. He felt his previous SR speaker cable lacked a bit in the bass department but excelled in all other avenues and the UR was an attempt to remedy this, though at the loss of a touch of speed. 

 He is now using the two cables together with the SR handling the upper ranges and the UR handling low end and feels this is a totally uncomrpomised configuration and highly recommends it for anyone with bi-wirable speakers. I have both cables currently, but will be unable to test them in bi-wire configuration for a couple of weeks though. Judging by grovers excitement I am sure I will not be dissapointed.


----------



## Nightfall

Okay, I'm in the market for some new interconnects and this thread has me interested. Could some of you make some more direct comparisons to cables from more established brands, ie; Nordost, Kimber, Cardas and reference particluar cables?
 These are extremely affordably priced, and Grover seems to be a class act, but I'm trying to determine where these might fall in the overall spectrum of cable quality. Some of those I am seriously considering (at used prices) are:

 Cardas Golden Reference
 Cardas Golden Cross
 Kimber KCTG's (or hopefully a great deal on .5 meter pr. of 1030's)
 Nordost SPM's
 Nordost Valkyrja (again, would have to be a steal on a .5meter pr.)
 Virtual Dynamic Nite2's

 Also possibly considering:
 HMS Gran Finale
 Audience AU24
 Pure Note Paragon
 Tg Audio HSR- High Purity
 HGA Silver Lace


 JC


----------



## Nightfall

Anyone???

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nightfall* 
_Okay, I'm in the market for some new interconnects and this thread has me interested. Could some of you make some more direct comparisons to cables from more established brands, ie; Nordost, Kimber, Cardas and reference particluar cables?
 These are extremely affordably priced, and Grover seems to be a class act, but I'm trying to determine where these might fall in the overall spectrum of cable quality. Some of those I am seriously considering (at used prices) are:

 Cardas Golden Reference
 Cardas Golden Cross
 Kimber KCTG's (or hopefully a great deal on .5 meter pr. of 1030's)
 Nordost SPM's
 Nordost Valkyrja (again, would have to be a steal on a .5meter pr.)
 Virtual Dynamic Nite2's

 Also possibly considering:
 HMS Gran Finale
 Audience AU24
 Pure Note Paragon
 Tg Audio HSR- High Purity
 HGA Silver Lace


 JC_


----------



## Gopher

nightfall,

 I haven't personally heard most of the cables on the list you mention, but suspect the Grovers would compete favorably.


 I used to own HGA Silver Lace and the grovers are by far the superior cable in ever aspect (especially with imaging). I've also heard the Cardas cables mentioned though never owned any for my self and didn't care for any of it. There was something about the sound of Cardas cables that never really tickled me right. In fact I was once considering the Golden References for myseylf, but after auditioning them, decided to cable with acoustic zen wire instead.

 Sorry I can't comment on more of the stuff on your list, but if you're willing to take a gamble with the grover cables I think you'll be rewarded.

 Fred


----------



## DarkAngel

*NF*
 I have not owned those in your list but several you list there are 5X or more the cost of Grover UR, if you need multiple sets of cables that will needlessly drain your wallet quickly, Grover has trail period give them a try.

 I have previously owned and after getting Grover cables subsequently sold all my:
 Acoustic Zen Silver Reference
 Analysis Plus Solo Crystal + Silver Oval
 HGA Silver Lace


----------



## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Just give in and go with the grovers. No hype here, just great prices. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Biggie.


----------



## in2monk

I owned Cardas Golden Cross ICs and the Grover SR II blew them out of the water. The new Grover UR is MUCH better than the SR II.


----------



## DeeJayBump

My Grover URs (ICs) arrived about 10 days ago. I now have the URs and Audiogeek Nitrogens to compare with my Tangent-built PPAv2 with BlackGates and other assorted sonic goodness once it arrives next week. 

 Now, many others have far more experience with top-dollar wire than me, so I'm not sure I have the experience base to convey what I'll hear between these two reputedly excellent ICs, but I'll post my impressions anyway once the PPAv2 arrives, the ICs burn in and I have a handle on the differences between these two ICs. For reference, my only other decent ICs have been Audioquest (Turquoise and Ruby) interconnects.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DeeJayBump* 
_My Grover URs (ICs) arrived about 10 days ago. I now have the URs and Audiogeek Nitrogens to compare with my Tangent-built PPAv2 with BlackGates and other assorted sonic goodness once it arrives next week. 

 Now, many others have far more experience with top-dollar wire than me, so I'm not sure I have the experience base to convey what I'll hear between these two reputedly excellent ICs, but I'll post my impressions anyway once the PPAv2 arrives, the ICs burn in and I have a handle on the differences between these two ICs. For reference, my only other decent ICs have been Audioquest (Turquoise and Ruby) interconnects._

 

Perhaps it is a blessing to not have any experience with expensive cables, leaves more money in your wallet......he he.

 I know this is headphone site, but I find it much harder to hear what cables are capable of with headphones because soundstage is so restricted. This is often the parameter that displays largest subjective variation but can only be fully judged in speaker based system.


----------



## DeeJayBump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* 
_Perhaps it is a blessing to not have any experience with expensive cables, leaves more money in your wallet......he he.

 I know this is headphone site, but I find it much harder to hear what cables are capable of with headphones because soundstage is so restricted. This is often the parameter that displays largest subjective variation but can only be fully judged in speaker based system._

 

I know what you mean about saved funds. The Rubys ICs I only paid $60 for from J&R Music World well over a decade ago. As for the speaker-based comparisons, I'm slowly putting one together. For now, the PPAv2-CE775-SR225s will have to do as far as comparing these two ICs go. In the very near future I will pick up a SACDmodded-CE775 to bring my source at least a little closer to the level of the other components.

 Kind of strange having ICs that cost more than I paid for the CDP.


----------



## recstar24

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* 
_
 I know this is headphone site, but I find it much harder to hear what cables are capable of with headphones because soundstage is so restricted. This is often the parameter that displays largest subjective variation but can only be fully judged in speaker based system._

 

I totally agree with you. Even when I try out cables on my crappy fisher old school receiver and speakers, you can totally hear how the stage will open up, like you'll get more depth behind the speakers, or the speakers themselves becomre more invisible and sound seems to emanate out of nowhere. With headphones, cable swaps are not as apparent because the stage is constricted and small by comparison.

 However, i do notice subtle differences and sometimes not so subtle differences with certain cables with my 650's and rs-1's. I've been using my nordost blue heavens for a while now, but last night the stage and imaging just clicked. There was this guitar playing way far left, way beyond my ear and the image seemed to project totally beyond the earpiece. Also, last night playing some MIA the sound ssimply had more depth to it than my MIT's, i could hear and feel the bass presence behind me as well.

 cable differences are not as apparent and take a little more time to notice on headphones than speakers IMO due to the differences in the size of the stage


----------



## recstar24

I just thought I would post an email correspondence i had with someone on audiogon, who was selling the grover UR's and i missed out, but i asked him why he was selling in the first place and what his impressions were - obviously, this is his opinion on his rig so take it as such, but i thought it would be nice to post a contrary insight to what has already been said:

 "I initially liked them but thought they lacked a bit of warmth. Still, I preferred them to the first generation Acoustic Zen Matrix Reference and Silver Ref ICs and Satori speaker cables I had on hand. Longer term I also came to feel that the Grovers accentuated the leading edge of transients unacceptably. I replaced the ICs with a pair of Von Gaylord Chinchillas and the speaker cables with Audience au24 or Eichmann Express 6 (still undecided on those), all of which are copper rather than silver, and much more expensive. Results were similar in my two channel rig (Avantgarde Duos, tubed Sony SACD player, Avantgarde amp) and my much humbler hometheater set-up (Yamaha receiver, Kef speakers)."

 Again, this is just a contrary opinion posted just to provide some balance and to encourage some feedback on this user's impressions as well as to encourage some healthy discussion on this cable


----------



## dhwilkin

Quote:


 recstar24 said...

 Von Gaylord Chinchillas 
 

I know I shouldn't be, but I can't stop laughing, what a name for some cables!


----------



## DarkAngel

Some thoughts......

 There is no way to predict how a cable will sound exactly in any given system with all the possible equipment variables and personal tastes, that is what trail periods are for. 

 The fact that person above selling his Grover UR was specifically looking for warmer sounding all copper cables "may" indicate a system already on the bright side of neutral looking to use cables as a tone control to warm things up.

 Also lets remember that those Von Gaylord Chinchillas ICs are $1,400+ per pair vs $140 for Grover UR.......


----------



## recstar24

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dhwilkin* 
_I know I shouldn't be, but I can't stop laughing, what a name for some cables! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey, I swear i didnt say that, thats an actual cable and that is exactly what the email the guy stated lol! I didnt even think about that, but now i cant stop laughing...


----------



## recstar24

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* 
_Some thoughts......

 There is no way to predict how a cable will sound exactly in any given system with all the possible equipment variables and personal tastes, that is what trail periods are for. 

 The fact that person above selling his Grover UR was specifically looking for warmer sounding all copper cables "may" indicate a system already on the bright side of neutral looking to use cables as a tone control to warm things up.

 Also lets remember that those Von Gaylord Chinchillas ICs are $1,400+ per pair vs $140 for Grover UR......._

 

Great post and great comments, i hear ya, hey i would have totally snagged those badboys up but alas im too slow to the draw!

 I just thought it would be nice to post a counterpoint, that's all, its hard to predict the sound of cables until they are in your rig, but im always up for promoting healthy discussion, keep it going...


----------



## PATB

You better like detailed sound before you buy. Like the audiogon guy, I initially like my SR-IIs (which are labeled as URs). After a while I find them too bright in my Meridian G08/HR-2/HD650(stock cable) rig. My rig is not what I would call bright. I hate bright sound, so maybe it is just me. The SR-IIs are now gathering dust in the garage, replaced by my Rega Couple (again). 

 I also have a pair of Grover UR XLRs driving my KGSS/Stax Omega IIs. The Omega IIs are even darker than HD650s, so no amount of "silver" can make them bright. I am fine with the URs with the O2s, but still curious as to how warmer XLRs cable will sound.

 The cables are not pretty, but they are well built and the manufacturer is very trustworthy. The price also can't be beat. I recommend them for those looking for detailed cables. If you are sensitive to brightness, these are not the cables for you.

 ---Pat


----------



## KenW

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PATB* 
_You better like detailed sound before you buy. Like the audiogon guy, I initially like my SR-IIs (which are labeled as URs). After a while I find them too bright in my Meridian G08/HR-2/HD650(stock cable) rig. My rig is not what I would call bright. I hate bright sound, so maybe it is just me. The SR-IIs are now gathering dust in the garage, replaced by my Rega Couple (again). 

 I also have a pair of Grover UR XLRs driving my KGSS/Stax Omega IIs. The Omega IIs are even darker than HD650s, so no amount of "silver" can make them bright. I am fine with the URs with the O2s, but still curious as to how warmer XLRs cable will sound.

 The cables are not pretty, but they are well built and the manufacturer is very trustworthy. The price also can't be beat. I recommend them for those looking for detailed cables. If you are sensitive to brightness, these are not the cables for you.

 ---Pat_

 

Pat,

 Would you say that the UR are as bright as the SRII? I thought the UR would be warmer than the SR line in general? I share a similar aversion to bright gear and wonder if the upgrade would be a solution or not? I've got the SR and the BMC Pinnacle Golds. Would you or anyone know how the UR would compare to either of those in terms or brightness or warmth?


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## PATB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KenW* 
_Pat,

 Would you say that the UR are as bright as the SRII? I thought the UR would be warmer than the SR line in general? I share a similar aversion to bright gear and wonder if the upgrade would be a solution or not? I've got the SR and the BMC Pinnacle Golds. Would you or anyone know how the UR would compare to either of those in terms or brightness or warmth?_

 

It is very difficult for me to compare the two because my SRs are RCAs and my URs are XLRs -- i.e. I can't just swap them in the same amp/headphone setup. The URs are not bright in my KGSS/O2 -- they just let the Meridian music through. But then again, the O2s are DARK phones to begin with, so I can't really tell how bright they are. Alll I can tell you is that, the UR XLRs are detailed and airy without being bright in a Meridian G08 (balanced)=>Grover UR XLR=>(balanced)KGSS=>Stax Omega II setup. 

 I just sent my SR-IIs RCAs to Grover for upgrade to the new URs. I will let you know in a week or two. Hold on.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KenW* 
_Pat,

 Would you say that the UR are as bright as the SRII? I thought the UR would be warmer than the SR line in general? I share a similar aversion to bright gear and wonder if the upgrade would be a solution or not? I've got the SR and the BMC Pinnacle Golds. Would you or anyone know how the UR would compare to either of those in terms or brightness or warmth?_

 

No silver cable will ever approach the warmth of the pinnacle golds. The empress cable sounds like the sr-II but without the excess brightness. I have the UR's coming to compare to the empress.

 Biggie.


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## KenW

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PATB* 
_It is very difficult for me to compare the two because my SRs are RCAs and my URs are XLRs -- i.e. I can't just swap them in the same amp/headphone setup. The URs are not bright in my KGSS/O2 -- they just let the Meridian music through. But then again, the O2s are DARK phones to begin with, so I can't really tell how bright they are. Alll I can tell you is that, the UR XLRs are detailed and airy without being bright in a Meridian G08 (balanced)=>Grover UR XLR=>(balanced)KGSS=>Stax Omega II setup. 

 I just sent my SR-IIs RCAs to Grover for upgrade to the new URs. I will let you know in a week or two. Hold on._

 

PATB...just did the same yesterday. Sent the SR's off for the upgrade. Hope it's going to be all that and more.


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## KenW

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NotoriousBIG_PJ* 
_No silver cable will ever approach the warmth of the pinnacle golds. The empress cable sounds like the sr-II but without the excess brightness. I have the UR's coming to compare to the empress.

 Biggie._

 

I've got the Empress on a short list so keep me posted on the comparison. Sent my Grover SR's off yesterday for the upgrade. I know it won't have me forgetting that at their heart, they're silver cables but if it takes the edge off and adds just a touch of warmth, they might be keepers. Still I'd like your thoughts of the UR as compared to the Empress. If they're even close, considering the price difference, it would seem a no-brainer of which to purchase. With cable the tube rolling, I'm bound to find my sweet spot.


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## Gopher

KenW,

 I posted a review specifically comparing the Empress' to the latest UR revisions.


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## morphsci

I just ordered a set of UR's to go between the G08 and the Stealth. They will be "replacing" a set of HT Truthlinks so i think this will be an interesting comparison. I liked the truthlink between my Sony 333 and the Stealth but it does not seem as good with the Meridian.


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## Gabe Logan

Do the Grover UR come in .5 meter or is 1 meter the smallest?


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## adhoc

why dont you just drop the man himself an email? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 groverhuffman<AT>hotmail.com [replace the <AT> with @]


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## Gabe Logan

Ya i did but he has not responded back.I'll wait another day then send him another one.

 Edit:He email me back and i am soon to be owner of some.


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## adhoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gabe Logan* 
_Edit:He email me back and i am soon to be owner of some. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ditto here.


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## Kieran Comito

I would like to warm my main speaker system up a bit, do you guys think the new Grover URs can do the job? It is silver right? Shouldn't I be looking at copper to achieve this? Right now I have HGA Silver Laces. Thanks


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## KenW

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adhoc* 
_ditto here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hope I'm right behind you guys. Should be interesting to compare the UR against the Pinnacle Golds if I still have them.


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## Gopher

Kieran,

 They're wonderful cables and I can't recommend them highly enough--but in your case, if you're looking for additional warmth, they might not fit your bill. They really are very neutral tone.


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## Kieran Comito

Well, I might give the a try anyway. If they don't work in my main system, I will just throw them in my second system or sell them.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kieran Comito* 
_Well, I might give the a try anyway. If they don't work in my main system, I will just throw them in my second system or sell them._

 

Grover's are definetly warmer then the home grown lace ic's. Gord_SW_Ont owns a pair of grovers and a pair of home growns and we did a comparison between them, the empress and grover reference II's at his house one day. I found the home grown to homogonize the sound in a way I didn't like. However none of the grovers have that extra blanket of warmth that many copper cables I've heard have.

 Biggie.


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## arnaud

Quick message to thank those here (Gopher!) who posted about the Grover UR. I was pretty skeptical about inter-connects but tried my luck ordering these cables (the return policy makes it a no brainer almost...). 

 Well, one word sums it all up: WOW!!!! What an improvement over my Outlaw Audio PCAs! I could not believe it. More controlled / deeper bass was one thing. But the most noticeable difference was in the highs: they are so much cleaner! The Outlaw Audios are sounding completly unrefined in comparison: bright, harsh. The Grover cables make my Meridian shine, the highs are extended and crystalline sounding but never brittle sounding. Simply amazing!

 For less than $150, I definitely recommend it!


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## adhoc

my grover URs arrived around 4 days ago. 

 while they look, frankly, _awful_, they sound pretty damned good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 they are relatively flexible so i would assume either a twisted-pair or double-straight type geometry is used.

 i cannot do any meaningful review/comparo right now as (ratshack ICs aside) i currently do not own any other ICs. HOWEVER. in a month or so the UR will go up against a _cardas golden reference_...


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