# The BEST sounding electrolytic caps? (after Blackgates)



## Bosk

Now that Blackgates are no longer readily available, what gets your vote as the #1 sounding Electrolytic capacitors available for use in electronics? (not crossovers)


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## ludoo

I have a limited experience in DIY, but I like the Elna Cerafines which I have used in a couple of builds, once swapping them in place of Muse KZ. They are no longer manufactured, but can usually be found for less than Blackgates. The Elna Silmic II RFS are their successors and are available from Digikey and many others.


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## adamus

I like silmics - quite smooth. bypassed with small obligatos they sound lovely as a cathode bypass in a valve amp.


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## QQQ

Blackgates are good, but Nichicon Muse's are better sounding, generally.


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## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *QQQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Blackgates are good, but Nichicon Muse's are better sounding, generally._

 

Yeah, sure. I can say, I have never heard a good sounding Nichicon. 

 To the OP - Elna Tonerex.


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## tomb

Once again, Majkel, your hearing preferences seem directly opposite most everyone else's.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 I prefer the Nichicon Muse's myself - even over Black Gates in certain scenarios. Black Gates are highly detailed but they never lose a certain bit of "fuzziness", IMHO. Nichicon Muse are much more transparent.


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## NelsonVandal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Once again, Majkel, your hearing preferences seem directly opposite most everyone else's.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

I tend to disagree. Majkel's been spot on when he describes the sound of opamps. I also think he could be right regarding the use of TLE2426 as rail splitter. I've done some experiments, but it's too early for me to speak out my findings. Maybe it's not so transparent in this position as we like to think.

 I have no experience from capacitor sound except for standard WIMA film caps, BlackGate HiQ and Sanyo WX, so I'm following this thread with interest.


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## tomb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NelsonVandal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tend to disagree. Majkel's been spot on when he describes the sound of opamps. I also think he could be right regarding the use of TLE2426 as rail splitter. I've done some experiments, but it's too early for me to speak out my findings. Maybe it's not so transparent in this position as we like to think.

 I have no experience from capacitor sound except for standard WIMA film caps, BlackGate HiQ and Sanyo WX, so I'm following this thread with interest._

 

Sure, we all have our opinions, but let's just say that when someone says they've "_never heard a good sounding Nichicon_," it tends to invalidate the rest of their statements.


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## Seaside

Never say never, since there might be few exceptions that you will never know. Oops, did I say never?

 Anyways, to OP, I like elna silmic II.


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## stixx

Sanyo Os-Con as cathode bypass cap...


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## kirimaru

I have used all blackgates,audio grade nichicon and elna,the nichicon muse kz is the best performance/value after blackgates.


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## vixr

uh...I'm not qualified to post here. (thought I was for a second there)


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## compuryan

I have Nichicon Muze in my amp and they kick!


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## rds

I think it's best to just post possible equivalents rather than trying to find a best replacement.
 This stuff is completely subjective - there will never been a consensus.


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## Bismar

Burp.


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## slowpogo

Elna Silmic II is not that great to me. Acoustic instruments have more character and color, but in the context of a bunch of them playing at once, things get muddy. People say it's "warm" but I just hear "muddy." I prefer the Cerafine, which has very good timbre reproduction and nice midrange but is crisp and open like Black Gates.


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## QQQ

What can you say about panasonic caps? I think they're pretty good.


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## adamus

bypassing a CSS in my valve amp (el84 pp) i actually used the following: 250uf blackgate + 1000uf Silmic + 1uf wima film. 

 first 10 hrs it was lovely, crisp, deep bass but still deifned. 
 Then 10-40hrs it sounded like ****, so much so i had it back on the bench for testing - it all checked out ok. it was muddy, loose, and dull.

 then it slowly started tightening up, bass became defined, highs got crisper and with a lovely air around them. 100hrs and it it stunning. 

 So whilst blackgates may be nice.... they do require patience!!!


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## dsavitsk

I generally agree with most of what people have said. BG N and NX are tops. BG Std don't sound like anything special, though they are still better than the generic stuff. Panasonic FM's are pretty nice, but tend to be overly smooth and tubby and a little slow. FC's might be less sluggish, but are otherwise terrible. Muse KZs are a little better than FMs in terms of clarity and speed, but they can be a bit etchy. Silmic IIs are perhaps a better version of the FMs -- very smooth and probably my preference compared to the KZs. Cerafines are somewhere in there, but have a sort of hifi-ish sound that isn't my cup of tea. Combinations can be good, as can multiples in parallel. That is, 10x 100uF FM's sounds better to me than 1x 1000uF FM. Oh, also note that BG, Muse, Silmic, Cerafine, etc. all have copper leads. Panasonic FM, FC, and the rest of the Nichicons are all magnetic.


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## majkel

There is no best universal electrolytic capacitor. In my DAC - BG STD are the best after voltage regulators, Elna Tonerex are the best for rail bypassing near analog stage, Elna Silmic II are the best as analog supply decoupling near the DAC chip, Sanyo WG are the best digital supplies decoupling - better than any Oscons I ever tried. Panasonic - I don't know FM, FC sucks, FG is much better, it's like a bit colder Silmic II. Elna Tonerex is the most transparent while other Elna's mentioned here are kind of "special effect" capacitors which you need to create sonic signature.


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## majkel

Something to enjoy from Panasonic is the PX series AKA "Pureism". Sometimes they turn out great. I tried pairing Elna Tonerex with Wima MKP but it made things noticeably worse. It is not recommended to place MKP's parallel to the audio section capacitors. You can do that in the power supply, though. MKT are another solution.


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## QQQ

Nice impressions, keep it up folks.


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## NelsonVandal

Has anyone listened to Sanyo WX, AX or OS-CON? Sanyos are the only ones readily available for me, except standard ELNA. I always use WX, but I haven't done any comparisons.


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## hew

Any opinions on Mundorf electrolytics?


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## QQQ

BC Components caps, i'd like to hear opinion on them...


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