# The Fiio A5 thread: an upgrade of E12A, MUSES02+LME49600, 800mW, 19Vp-p, 12 hours



## Holypal

Fiio's new portable amp, a solid upgrade of E12A:
 https://www.facebook.com/FiiOAUDIO/posts/1196759820381549
  
 Basic specs:MUSES02+LME49600, 800mW, 19Vp-p, 12 hours.
  
 Details:
Model Name: A5（FA5121）
Color Available: Titanium colour
Weight: 168 g (incl. battery)
Dimensions: 124 mm×65.5 mm×14.5 mm
Audio Input: 3.5 mm stereo jack
Headphone Output: 3.5 mm stereo jack
Volume ControlALPS Potentiometer
Bass Boost: +4dB (BASS ON)
Drive Ability: 16~300 Ω (recommend)
Power Input: recommend DC5V 2A
Battery Capacity: 880 mAh
Battery Life: ≥13 h
Output Power: ＞800 mW (32 Ω/THD＜1%)
                     ≥ 150mW（300Ω/THD＜1%）
Charging Time: ＜3 h（DC5V 2A）
THD+N : ＜0.002％ (1 kHz)
Output Impedance:  ＜0.3 Ω
Frequency Response: 10 Hz~90 kHz（-3dB，Input: 220mV）
SNR:   ≥115dB (A-weighted)
Input Sensitivity:  5.6 V (GAIN=L),   1.15V (GAIN=H)
MAX Input Level: ＞8 Vrms
Crosstalk:  ≥ 75 dB
Channel Imbalance:  ＜0.3 dB
Gain: 13 dB (GAIN=H), 0 dB (GAIN=L)
Peak Output Voltage: 14.96 Vp-p
MAX Output Current:  250 mA（For reference）
  
 FiiO A5 Reviews:
 by Cinder: "More Power!"
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amplifier/reviews/17279
  
 by Brooko: "Effortless power, exemplary sound“
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amplifier/reviews/17530
  
 by Vergil
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/819831/the-fiio-a5-thread-an-upgrade-of-e12a-muses02-lme49600-800mw-19vp-p-12-hours/300#post_13074081


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## HotIce

11.1V was already the supply voltage of the E12 (not the A version).
 The output power is the same as the E12 (again, not the A version).
 I can only see the MUSES02 instead of the OPA (which would likely trigger a $$ bump, given MUSES prices), and some restyling.
 OTOH, I recognize it is hard to improve the E12.


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## alexandros a

Hi there, just bought E12A haning read some very positive reviews and by using the "headphone power calculator" app discovered that although e12a is mainly an IEM amp,can easily drive big cans of higher impedance such as senh HD650 or AKG K612,K702,being on the market right now for open back headphones should i have to bother of finding another more efficient amp for higher impedance cans?please anyone who owns a E12A amp can add some usefull advice it would be great,Alexandros.


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## blazinblazin

A5 is probably to replace both E12 and E12A. Don't really make sense to make both as 1 has more power for headphone and 1 is less noise for IEM.


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## ceemsc

Hopefully we can get more details soon... 

Would love to know the Sound Quality comparison tests + measurements between this & the original E12; not just no Crossfeed, USB recharge noise or lesser Bass Boost... 

I'm hoping this gives the legendary Objective 2 and some premium amp brands a run for their money such as a just as wide & more layered transparent soundstage...


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## HotIce

IMHO the current E12 already does give a run for their money.


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## Blazer39

just found out this store selling Fiio A5: http://store.treoo.com/fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amplifier.html its priced at 189 SGD, which is almost 139 USD


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## HotIce

At US$ 139, if confirmed, it would still be OK, as it was around $129 shipped (now it's on offer at $80 shipped) when I bought them at BH PhotoVideo.
 I was afraid of a steeper price jump, which would have ruined the original E12 bang/buck ratio.


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## Sound Eq

interested


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## blazinblazin

blazer39 said:


> just found out this store selling Fiio A5: http://store.treoo.com/fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amplifier.html its priced at 189 SGD, which is almost 139 USD


 
 That's like cheaper than my E12A


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## fish1050

I can still see a market for the E12A as not everyone will need that much power and the E12A has 20+ hours battery life vs only 12 hours on the A5.  For me with my B&W P5 S2 headphones the A5 power is overkill and I would still go for the E12A.  I would for example want the 20+ hours from the E12A to match with the 30+ hours from my Sony A17 so I would not be constantly going back and forth charging both devices.  
  
 I could see getting the A5 to stack with the new X1 II which has an improved DAC but still has the same amp as the old X1.  Replacing the X1 II amp via LO to the A5 could make a pretty nice cost effective combo. They both will get about 12 hours battery life so they would even charge well together. 
  
 I for one hope Fiio does not kill the E12A and simply renames it the A5A or A4 or something similar to match the new product naming structure.  Just like they did renaming the E11K to the A3.


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## ceemsc

fish1050 said:


> I can still see a market for the E12A as not everyone will need that much power and the E12A has 20+ hours battery life vs only 12 hours on the A5.  For me with my B&W P5 S2 headphones the A5 power is overkill and I would still go for the E12A.
> 
> ...
> 
> I for one hope Fiio does not kill the E12A....




So would you say the FiiO A5 was developed to trump powerful portable amps like the Cayin C5 or is the A5 still not as powerful?

One of the selling points of the A5 is that it is almost double the power of the E12A but using the MUSES02 OPAMP.


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## HotIce

The C5 is a copy of the E12, and no, it is not more powerful. They both are on par.


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## fish1050

ceemsc said:


> So would you say the FiiO A5 was developed to trump powerful portable amps like the Cayin C5 or is the A5 still not as powerful?
> 
> One of the selling points of the A5 is that it is almost double the power of the E12A but using the MUSES02 OPAMP.


 
 Actually the E12A also uses the MUSE02 OPAMP which is partly why the E12A price is higher than the E12 despite the E12 having more power.


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## Holypal

hotice said:


> The C5 is a copy of the E12, and no, it is not more powerful. They both are on par.


 
  
 Output power:
 Cayin C5 DAC: 300mW+300mW (32 ohm)
 Cayin C5: 800mW+800mW (32 ohm)


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## HotIce

The E12 is 880mW on 32 Ohm. Same spec as A5.
 So I am guessing the boost regulator provides the same rail voltages +-11V.


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## ceemsc

fish1050 said:


> Actually the E12A also uses the MUSE02 OPAMP which is partly why the E12A price is higher than the E12 despite the E12 having more power.



Is the MUSES02 chip that more $$ ? I thought it was more pricey because the E12A is newer with the known E12 bugs refined...


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## fish1050

ceemsc said:


> Is the MUSES02 chip that more $$ ? I thought it was more pricey because the E12A is newer with the known E12 bugs refined...


 
 Yes I mentioned price increase partly from switch to MUSE02 there are other factors as well.
  
 I am interested to see the street price for the A5 to see how close it is to the E12A.


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## ceemsc

hotice said:


> The E12 is 880mW on 32 Ohm. Same spec as A5.
> So I am guessing the boost regulator provides the same rail voltages +-11V.




So is there any benefit in upgrading from an already owned E12 amp to the A5 or would it be better value to just buy an E12 cheaper online?




fish1050 said:


> Yes I mentioned price increase partly from switch to MUSE02 there are other factors as well.
> 
> I am interested to see the street price for the A5 to see how close it is to the E12A.




Not claiming to be an expert but what's so special about the MUSES02 OPAMP vs the OP1611 OPAMP found in the original E12?

I've been to both company websites & Texas Instruments seems to be more established as a professional semi-conductor manufacturer than New Japan Radio?


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## HotIce

ceemsc said:


> So is there any benefit in upgrading from an already owned E12 amp to the A5 or would it be better value to just buy an E12 cheaper online?


 
  
 Entirely personal decision.
 I own not one, but two E12, and I am not looking to replace them anywhere soon, but at $80 shipped (assuming they are still available), the E12 is very hard to beat.
 It also depends on the final A5 price, and whether you are one of the ones that can clearly distinguish opamps sounds.


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## pranavtripathi

One of the websites which covered the September 16th release in China, shows the estimated price at 120 USD. 
Here's the link. What are your opinions after seeing the link, do let us know.

https://www.samma3a.com/en/blog/fiio-x1-2nd-genration-a5-q5-iphone-7-i1-cable-and-if3-headphones-and-more-was-released-in-autumn-event--305.html


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## Kryl0071

I put A5 in my purchase list for October.


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## ceemsc

kryl0071 said:


> I put A5 in my purchase list for October.




You mean Broketober...


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## pranavtripathi

@JamesFiio is there any estimated price for Fiio A5? And a final release date? Thank You.


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## gwompki

I'm definitely interested in the release date/ price as well. This seems to be just what I was looking for.


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## Light - Man

pranavtripathi said:


> @JamesFiio is there any estimated price for Fiio A5? And a final release date? Thank You.


 
@JamesFiiO How are things looking for a general release for the 20th of this month for the UK, etc. ?


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## TheoS53

I've had both the E12 and the E12A... I MUCH prefer the E12A. No hissing, and overall just sounds more neutral and detailed. So it seems the A5 is gonna be a best of both worlds combo of the E12 and E12A


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## Light - Man

Fiio seem to be keeping very quiet about the release date of the new A5.
  
 Perhaps they want to flog off all the old E12's and E12A's before they release it?


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## TheoS53

light - man said:


> Fiio seem to be keeping very quiet about the release date of the new A5.
> 
> Perhaps they want to flog off all the old E12's and E12A's before they release it?


 
 Well, their Facebook post said estimated Oct 20th


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## fonkepala

What turns me off the E12A is the lower output power compared to the E12.


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## Light - Man

fonkepala said:


> What turns me off the E12A is the lower output power compared to the E12.


 
  
 I suppose output is not everything, the A5 is supposed to be fairly similar in output to the E12 but the A5 uses muses02 op amps so it may be worth waiting for.


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## pranavtripathi

I believe it will be suitable for IEMs and full size headphones too. If you carefully see, Fiio Q5, their flagship DAC /Amp has a three stage gain. They might implement the same in A5. If they do, people have more options to choose from.


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## snellemin

The A5 looks nice and looks to be a whole lot cheaper than the DIY version.  The A5 looks like my DIY with the Muses02 installed.  I am using the Buf634 instead of the LME49600.


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## Light - Man

snellemin said:


> The A5 looks nice and looks to be a whole lot cheaper than the DIY version.  The A5 looks like my DIY with the Muses02 installed.  I am using the Buf634 instead of the LME49600.


 
  
 Have you tried your DIY with the LME49600 and if so, how do it compare to the Buf634?


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## snellemin

light - man said:


> Have you tried your DIY with the LME49600 and if so, how do it compare to the Buf634?


 
 I have, but don't remember how it sounded.  But if I chose the Buf634, it must've been better to my ears.  Just looking at specs alone, the LME49600 has a higher pulse current vs the Buf634. So greater transients is what I translate it too.
  
  I can say the Muses02 is excellent for both Full size headphones and IEM's.


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## snellemin

light - man said:


> Have you tried your DIY with the LME49600 and if so, how do it compare to the Buf634?


 
 For fun I swapped in the LME49600.  I am using the Muses01 right now for it's old school analog sound signature.
  
 So the difference between the Buf634 and LME49600, is that the LME49600 sounds more spacious. Is a good thing for those listening to closed-backed headphones.
  
LME's
  

  
Buf634


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## FiiO

Dear all,
 Our A5 has already released:
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  http://www.head-fi.org/t/822914/fiio-releases-the-new-amplifier-a5-that-strives-for-perfection


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## ceemsc

fiio said:


> Dear all,
> Our A5 has already released:   [COLOR=FF4400]http://www.head-fi.org/t/822914/fiio-releases-the-new-amplifier-a5-that-strives-for-perfection[/COLOR]




Excellent & long awaited news!!

I notice the FiiO website has already taken down the sales information for the E12 & E12A, so 2 questions :-

1) What are the size measurements of the A5 compared to the E12 ? (I need to know whether it will be a straight swap-out in my rig.)

2) What is the +dB level & frequency of the Bass boost for the A5 compared to the E12's of +6dB @ 64Hz as the website only says "Level 1"? (This is essential for when using the Amp on non-EQ'd external audio & was a key reason why I haven't purchased an Objective 2 Amp.)


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## TheoS53

ceemsc said:


> Excellent & long awaited news!!
> 
> I notice the FiiO website has already taken down the sales information for the E12 & E12A, so 2 questions :-
> 
> ...


 
 A5 is the exact same size as the E12A...and AFAIK it also has the same bass boost as E12A, not E12


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## ceemsc

theos53 said:


> A5 is the exact same size as the E12A...and AFAIK it also has the same bass boost as E12A, not E12




So in a sense the same size as the E12 albeit approx. 10g heavier.

The E12A Bass Boost is +4dB but the key-point is the frequency. I'm hoping this will be in the 32hz range similar to the E12 Version 1 as this will help with counteracting my Sennheiser HD700 Sub-Bass Roll-off.

I'm also hoping that MUSES02 OP-Amp provides a wider sound-stage than the narrower one presented by the E12.


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## Dobrescu George

I wonder if it'll be a smooth amp like E12A or a treble happy amp like E12.


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## pranavtripathi

I'm just hoping they've sent out tour units so someone can post a detailed review really soon!!


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## Blazer39

dobrescu george said:


> I wonder if it'll be a smooth amp like E12A or a treble happy amp like E12.


 

 well it has same op-amps of E12A, so most likely it will sound like E12A but with E12 power.
  
 im so excited for the amp, could be my first proper amp to pair with X3II


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## HotIce

Here they say price should be around USD120 ...
  
 https://www.samma3a.com/en/blog/fiio-x1-2nd-genration-a5-q5-iphone-7-i1-cable-and-if3-headphones-and-more-was-released-in-autumn-event--305.html


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## Dobrescu George

hotice said:


> Here they say price should be around USD120 ...
> 
> https://www.samma3a.com/en/blog/fiio-x1-2nd-genration-a5-q5-iphone-7-i1-cable-and-if3-headphones-and-more-was-released-in-autumn-event--305.html


 
  
  
 Whoa, this is very exciting then!


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## RedJohn456

Lookie what DHL just dropped off, cant wait to see what it can do!


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## pranavtripathi

redjohn456 said:


> Lookie what DHL just dropped off, cant wait to see what it can do!



Where did you order from? Please share the link?
Also, do post impressions when you've analysed them?

Thanks.


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## RedJohn456

pranavtripathi said:


> Where did you order from? Please share the link?
> Also, do post impressions when you've analysed them?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Thanks I will be sure to post unboxing pics and impressions later today. And I should have clarifier, it is a sample from FiiO.


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## squyzz

If you have eared the Fiio X7 with the AM5, please tell us what you think of A5 and AM5. I was late to order an AM5 for my X7 when i learn about the A5.


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## RedJohn456

squyzz said:


> If you have eared the Fiio X7 with the AM5, please tell us what you think of A5 and AM5. I was late to order an AM5 for my X7 when i learn about the A5.


 
  
 Good idea I will compare the two and its very easy to a/b quickly since its just going from one input to another


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## Toulouse

Does the color match the x3ii titanium?


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## FiiO

toulouse said:


> Does the color match the x3ii titanium?


 
 yep, A5 is titanium too.


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## FiiO

Dear Respected Customers,
 
 
FiiO has strived to constantly progress and innovate with fresh ideas in the portable amplifier market since its own entry. With the A5, we continue this tradition by striving to significantly improve over our previous products. 
 
Beyond just getting output power near that of the E12 of 800mW at 32 Ω, you also get the E12A’s exquisite abilities in reproducing music. All of the details mean that the A5 combines the best of both the E12 and the E12A.
 
Check the introduction of A5 by below pictures or* **>> Click Here*
 
The delivery of A5 to our worldwide agents starts this week. If you are interested in this lovely product, please kindly check with local agents *(>>Where to Buy)** *for its availability soon.
 
 
*Best regards,*
*FiiO Electronics Technology Co., Ltd.*


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## johnnymnemonic

I seen it and got hungry.
But I just got a e17k to dac my note 2 phone.
Driving my hd600 with it. To be honest, i am just starting to appreciate good quality sound
And therefore got the e17, now, although i think all sounds good on these sennheiser hd600's using this setup,
 i am thinking of getting the a5 to put between the E17k and the hd600.
Am i an idiot for thinking i need that power to make an improvement?
Ps
(Later i can budget in a dedicated player, what to start with considering this level of amp)?


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## TraneTime

I have an X5 (2nd gen) with an E12A and love it.  It powers all my hp's including my Beyer T1 (though not very loud).  It works best with my Hifiman HE560.  If the A5 is an improvement I'm getting in line for this one.  Particularly since the price seems to be right.


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## ceemsc

johnnymnemonic said:


> Am i an idiot for thinking i need that power to make an improvement?
> Ps
> (Later i can budget in a dedicated player, what to start with considering this level of amp)?




On the numbers only, the hd600 being 300Ohm impedance would benefit from the extra power volume wise however having heard neither kit or phones, I couldn't comment on the sound quality or frequency response. 

You would have to take into account & manage a bigger rig with Note 2/DAP as source, E17K as DAC & A5 as Amp + hd600 headphones.


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## Toulouse

I think I'd like to pair this with an X3ii. Hope the reviews match my expectations.


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## johnnymnemonic

ceemsc said:


> On the numbers only, the hd600 being 300Ohm impedance would benefit from the extra power volume wise however having heard neither kit or phones, I couldn't comment on the sound quality or frequency response.
> 
> You would have to take into account & manage a bigger rig with Note 2/DAP as source, E17K as DAC & A5 as Amp + hd600 headphones.




I gambled a bit and ordered one.
Hopefully it is here in a weeks time and then i will know.
No dedicated player yet so i will report ack on my macgyver construction's sound


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## sanusense

Woah, that looks really powerful, I hope performance would be extraordinary.


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## Alexein Aner

fiio said:


> Dear Respected Customers,
> 
> The delivery of A5 to our worldwide agents starts this week. If you are interested in this lovely product, please kindly check with local agents *(>>Where to Buy)** *for its availability soon.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello,
  
 The A5 amplifier is unlisted on my local vendor's website in Ottawa, Ontario. Will you be adding it to your amazon.ca store?
  
 Thanks


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## fish1050

I have to say I am a little disappointed that Fiio has dropped the E12A.  For me the power of the A5 is overkill and I would gladly trade for the reduced power of the E12A to get the better 20 hour battery life vs only 13 hours on the A5.  While my headphones and Sony A17 needs an amp I wouldn't need anywhere close to what the A5 has on tap.  Yes there is the A3 but it doesn't sound nearly as good as the E12A and has less battery life.  
  
 I am hoping that at some point there will be an update to the A3 to get it closer to the E12A as the last update was merely a model number change from E11K to A3.  Personally I find the Q1 sounds better than the A3 and I really don't need the DAC on the Q1.  
  
 Here is hoping we see an upgrade on the A3 soon.


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## Dobrescu George

fish1050 said:


> I have to say I am a little disappointed that Fiio has dropped the E12A.  For me the power of the A5 is overkill and I would gladly trade for the reduced power of the E12A to get the better 20 hour battery life vs only 13 hours on the A5.  While my headphones and Sony A17 needs an amp I wouldn't need anywhere close to what the A5 has on tap.  Yes there is the A3 but it doesn't sound nearly as good as the E12A and has less battery life.
> 
> I am hoping that at some point there will be an update to the A3 to get it closer to the E12A as the last update was merely a model number change from E11K to A3.  Personally I find the Q1 sounds better than the A3 and I really don't need the DAC on the Q1.
> 
> Here is hoping we see an upgrade on the A3 soon.


 
  
 I hope for a really bright amp... I want to have a bright, clear, bright, tight, bright sound. I don't think I'll get anything with muses op-amps, they're really smooth and can be... fatiguing for me... as I constantly search for my list treble in music.


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## RedJohn456

johnnymnemonic said:


> I seen it and got hungry.
> But I just got a e17k to dac my note 2 phone.
> Driving my hd600 with it. To be honest, i am just starting to appreciate good quality sound
> And therefore got the e17, now, although i think all sounds good on these sennheiser hd600's using this setup,
> ...


 
  
 We are almost in the same boat haha. I got a note 4 couple days ago and I have been running the E17K out of it (seriously underrated piece of kit that is). I too am driving the HD600 and no you are not an idiot. I will be honest and say that I am not the biggest fan of the E17K headphone out, I feel that it holds back the dac inside the E17k. So after adding the A5 into the mix I started using the HD600 and I am happy with the results. IMO the line out to A5 sounds better to me than the headphone out (volume matched by ears to the best of my ability). 
  
 The A5 has power and transparency and it drives my HD600 beautifully with power to spare, given that the E17K has a a really loud Line out signal.  I don't think you will be disappointed by the results   I am  holding back my hyping/excitement waiting for a few more days to pass before I throw caution to the wind lol (new toy syndrome and all that).
  
 This combo sounds good enough that it keeps me happy listening to music at my desk without reaching for my more expensive gears.


ceemsc said:


> On the numbers only, the hd600 being 300Ohm impedance would benefit from the extra power volume wise however having heard neither kit or phones, I couldn't comment on the sound quality or frequency response.
> 
> You would have to take into account & manage a bigger rig with Note 2/DAP as source, E17K as DAC & A5 as Amp + hd600 headphones.


 
  
 Yeah I am using that combo and soundwise, its a step up from the amp in teh E17Km, which is to be expected given that the A5 is a dedicated amplifier. But yes it does get rather bulky and not the most portable friendly set up but it sure sounds good!
  


johnnymnemonic said:


> I gambled a bit and ordered one.
> Hopefully it is here in a weeks time and then i will know.
> No dedicated player yet so i will report ack on my macgyver construction's sound


 
  
 Oh nice! Looking forward to your thoughts on it. I will be honest and say that you don't need to shell out cash right away for a dedicated player right away. Enjoy how this combo sounds first  And if you will be going portable don't waste time mucking around in mid tier, IMO go straight for the X7, especially if you stream music. I chose not to go through the whole climbing a ladder and slowly upgrade dap to dap and saved money in the long run.
  


fish1050 said:


> I have to say I am a little disappointed that Fiio has dropped the E12A.  For me the power of the A5 is overkill and I would gladly trade for the reduced power of the E12A to get the better 20 hour battery life vs only 13 hours on the A5.  While my headphones and Sony A17 needs an amp I wouldn't need anywhere close to what the A5 has on tap.  Yes there is the A3 but it doesn't sound nearly as good as the E12A and has less battery life.
> 
> I am hoping that at some point there will be an update to the A3 to get it closer to the E12A as the last update was merely a model number change from E11K to A3.  Personally I find the Q1 sounds better than the A3 and I really don't need the DAC on the Q1.
> 
> Here is hoping we see an upgrade on the A3 soon.


 
  
 If anything I expected a bit more power out of the A5 but it has really fine control of volume, especially on low gain. I am not sure if you have used the A5 yourself, but I don't find it to be too powerful, I wouldn't go by the specs alone...
  


dobrescu george said:


> I hope for a really bright amp... I want to have a bright, clear, bright, tight, bright sound. I don't think I'll get anything with muses op-amps, they're really smooth and can be... fatiguing for me... as I constantly search for my list treble in music.


 
  
 I know I said I will post impressions but something came up and I couldn't get around to it. I do plan to put up a more comprehensive first impressions posts later on (my ones tend to be more detailed and wordy).
  
 Now as for how they sound, they are not dark or dark leaning neutral. In fact I would characterize them as quite airy and light sounding. It is definitely brighter sounding than the amp section in the E17K. And brighter than the AM5 X7 module. RELATIVELY speaking of course, I don't want people to get the wrong idea.
  
 Fiio NAILED the sound of this amp, that is to say it is quite transparent and really helps the E17K dac shine. In fact I have the A5 rubber banded to my E17K because that is my favourite sounding combo at the moment. I don't think the A5 will be bright like how you are describing it but I dont think you will find it to be dark either.


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## johnnymnemonic

redjohn456 said:


> We are almost in the same boat haha. I got a note 4 couple days ago and I have been running the E17K out of it (seriously underrated piece of kit that is). I too am driving the HD600 and no you are not an idiot. I will be honest and say that I am not the biggest fan of the E17K headphone out, I feel that it holds back the dac inside the E17k. So after adding the A5 into the mix I started using the HD600 and I am happy with the results. IMO the line out to A5 sounds better to me than the headphone out (volume matched by ears to the best of my ability).
> 
> The A5 has power and transparency and it drives my HD600 beautifully with power to spare, given that the E17K has a a really loud Line out signal.  I don't think you will be disappointed by the results   I am  holding back my hyping/excitement waiting for a few more days to pass before I throw caution to the wind lol (new toy syndrome and all that).
> 
> ...




Haha that is great. Thanks for your response, the odds of exactly the same setup 
 It is what i was hoping for, also a shortcut to a player good enough for me to notice the quallity of sound but skipping a lot of hardware and saving a lot of money whas my goal. By the sound of your post, i'm in for a treat.
Allready i am realy enjoying the sound out of the e17k. Getting adventurous and turning base up one click and gain on 6 end enjoying that sound without feeling i am cheating. Im thinking that is the effect i hope to get from attaching the A5 only pure and powerfull. U just made me even more impatient. I feel the new toy syndrome kicking allready  thanks again.


----------



## RedJohn456

johnnymnemonic said:


> Haha that is great. Thanks for your response, the odds of exactly the same setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 No problem, I will be sure to post more thorough impressions when I manage to get some free time later.
  
 Till then some pics to make your wait harder easier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  ​  ​ Edit: And yes the E17K packs quite a punch! Can get really loud really quick if you are not careful haha. I regularly ran the HD600 out of it with the 12 gain enabled. Also, I know not everyone is a fan of the navigation wheel on the E17K, but it is hands down my favourite hardware feature. Shame they removed optical input from the E17 (I am never gonna let FiiO live that one down LOL)


----------



## oldmate

dobrescu george said:


> I hope for a really bright amp... I want to have a bright, clear, bright, tight, bright sound. I don't think I'll get anything with muses op-amps, they're really smooth and can be... fatiguing for me... as I constantly search for my list treble in music.


 
 Funny how we all hear things differently. To me bright, clear, bright and one more bright for good measure would be fatiguing. This amp excites me even though I have vowed to spend no more cash for awhile on this hobby but at it's price point is very appealing.


----------



## TheoS53

oldmate said:


> I have vowed to spend no more cash for awhile on this hobby


 
 lol, not spend more money on this hobby....that's so cute


----------



## Dobrescu George

oldmate said:


> Funny how we all hear things differently. To me bright, clear, bright and one more bright for good measure would be fatiguing. This amp excites me even though I have vowed to spend no more cash for awhile on this hobby but at it's price point is very appealing.


 
  
 Yeah, I know... 
  
 Fatiguing at high volumes. 
  
 But at low volumes, it's easier to hear details in treble, so we won't crank the volume too high. This is why I want a bright amp. E12A was - is - dark regardless of what you pair it with, regardless of what settings on EQ you apply, it is dark - or rather - rolled off. 
  
 People love it for it's mids - which are one of the best - and the sound is really relaxing, smooth, nice. But, it makes bad music sound good too. Takes away the energy from music, ultimately listening to really fast or aggressive bands like Dance Gavin Dance or Protest the Hero became a relaxing experience and as much as I hate to say it, it's not how I want to live with those bands. It's cool for those who want it, but I want my sharp screeching treble with me on bands that need it. 
  


theos53 said:


> lol, not spend more money on this hobby....that's so cute


 
  
 See, @TheoS53 gets it! 
  
 Once we start on this dark road, there is no turning back. There is no stopping the audiophile craving! 
  
 I actually promised to myself that I would stop after x5ii + e12a... sold e12a, sold x5ii (need of money very fast then) and now I'm searching for a DAP again. 
  
 at least I've found my heart in Senn ie800. 
  
 As for headphones... the list continues to grow.


----------



## ClieOS

Just listened to A5 side by side with E12A, volume matched - I'll say they are 97% similar in tonality. The last 3% difference is that A5 seems to be just a tiny bit cleaner and darker into the background, where E12A always has just a tiny bit of warmth.


----------



## fish1050

redjohn456 said:


> We are almost in the same boat haha. I got a note 4 couple days ago and I have been running the E17K out of it (seriously underrated piece of kit that is). I too am driving the HD600 and no you are not an idiot. I will be honest and say that I am not the biggest fan of the E17K headphone out, I feel that it holds back the dac inside the E17k. So after adding the A5 into the mix I started using the HD600 and I am happy with the results. IMO the line out to A5 sounds better to me than the headphone out (volume matched by ears to the best of my ability).
> 
> The A5 has power and transparency and it drives my HD600 beautifully with power to spare, given that the E17K has a a really loud Line out signal.  I don't think you will be disappointed by the results   I am  holding back my hyping/excitement waiting for a few more days to pass before I throw caution to the wind lol (new toy syndrome and all that).
> 
> ...


 
 The amount of power needed depends on the headphones and my B&W P5 S2's are quite efficient.  I was using an A3 for awhile which has less power than the E12A and barely got above 3 or 4 on the volume dial, with the E12 which I did audition it was like 2 max volume so just to much unnecessary power.  I switched to the Q1 to get the 30 hour battery life to match with the 30+ hours on my Sony A17.  The Q1 has slightly less power than the A3 but to me sounds better and now volume tops out at 5 to 6 which to me is perfect.  But again I don't need the DAC on the Q1 and an A3 close to the E12A with better battery life than the current A3 could be a winner for me.  Price was the main reason I did not grab the E12A as it was more than double the price of the Q1


----------



## ceemsc

clieos said:


> Just listened to A5 side by side with E12A, volume matched - I'll say they are 97% similar in tonality. The last 3% difference is that A5 seems to be just a tiny bit cleaner and darker into the background, where E12A always has just a tiny bit of warmth.




Hi ClieOS, loved your Amp Shootouts of the past... Would you be able to compare the Sound Quality of the FiiO E12 vs. A5 & whether it is worth the upgrade especially when one of the E12's criticisms was the narrower soundstage versus The Objective 2?

Thanks...


----------



## ClieOS

ceemsc said:


> Hi @ClieOS, loved your Amp Shootouts of the past... Would you be able to compare the Sound Quality of the FiiO E12 vs. A5 & whether it is worth the upgrade especially when one of the E12's criticisms was the narrower soundstage versus The Objective 2?
> 
> Thanks...


 
  
 My O2 is broken and hasn't been fixed yet (might need a rebuild there), so I can't compare it to A5. However, I'll say if you have the original E12, than A5 is definitely a worthy upgrade. But if you have the E12A and doesn't need the extra power, I think you can save some money for now. The improvement on a darker and cleaner background isn't what I'll consider a must have.


----------



## Dobrescu George

clieos said:


> My O2 is broken and hasn't been fixed yet (might need a rebuild there), so I can't compare it to A5. However, I'll say if you have the original E12, than A5 is definitely a worthy upgrade. But if you have the E12A and doesn't need the extra power, I think you can save some money for now. The improvement on a darker and cleaner background isn't what I'll consider a must have.


 
  
 At first, I also heard a dark background from E12A, but with ie800 in particular, that dark background ate away some of the soundstage and upper treble detail. Using X5ii alone solved the problem. It might be a thing of synnergy with ie800 and a thing of psychoacoustics though. 
  
 The more power on A5 is sure to be welcome for most, but then again, with E12A, it was a bit too loud at 9-10 o'clock.


----------



## PapaThrust

Is it safe to say the bass boost is identical to the E12?


----------



## ceemsc

papathrust said:


> Is it safe to say the bass boost is identical to the E12?




The E12 Bass Boost is +6dB @ 64hz.

I believe the specs say that the A5 Bass Boost matches the E12A; +4dB. I read elsewhere this is a mid-bass boost so probably also @ 64hz.

My question to the forum including FiiO is : Were the subsequent implementations of a more subtle amplitude of Bass Boost in later Amps because the original E12 +6dB was reviewed as too blunt/invasive/muddy?


----------



## gwompki

Up for sale from Penonaudio.com! $125
  
 http://penonaudio.com/FiiO-A5


----------



## Toulouse

gwompki said:


> Up for sale from Penonaudio.com! $125
> 
> http://penonaudio.com/FiiO-A5
> 
> And that's $40 less than their price on the E12A.


----------



## pranavtripathi

toulouse said:


> gwompki said:
> 
> 
> > Up for sale from Penonaudio.com! $125
> ...


----------



## johnnymnemonic

I got it today, listening now and damn, haha even if there is a bit of shiny gadget syndrome,
I really abused and underfed my hd 600,s all those years,
Even from my note 3 usb to E17k and then to the A5 and into the sennies i am blown away.
I just started to tweak the e17k with a 6 gain and a 2dot bass and that went better,
Those settings don't come out of the line out so i am fiddling with gain and boost a bit but
Now i am listening to crime of the century by supertramp. Low gain and no bass boost, 48k-16bit and i cant wait to get into bed with the lights off to drift off on some shpongle. Clear and quiet but power like i never heard from the 600's. I am a noob on audio but here it is, my testemony on this setup.

I got them from Ebay, avshop_uk
From uk to netherlands in 4 days. 2nd item i got from them. Smooth sailings so far,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/avshop_uk?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FiiO-A5-High-Power-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier-E12-Mont-Blanc-Successor-/262681841151


Ps. I will put a cryspier photo on when there is more light over here


----------



## Niyologist

johnnymnemonic said:


> I got it today, listening now and damn, haha even if there is a bit of shiny gadget syndrome,
> I really abused and underfed my hd 600,s all those years,
> Even from my note 3 usb to E17k and then to the A5 and into the sennies i am blown away.
> I just started to tweak the e17k with a 6 gain and a 2dot bass and that went better,
> ...




Which one is better in terms of detail retrieval. The A5 or E17K?


----------



## oldmate

johnnymnemonic said:


> I got it today, listening now and damn, haha even if there is a bit of shiny gadget syndrome,
> I really abused and underfed my hd 600,s all those years,
> Even from my note 3 usb to E17k and then to the A5 and into the sennies i am blown away.
> I just started to tweak the e17k with a 6 gain and a 2dot bass and that went better,
> ...


 
 Beer and Music. A match made in heaven especially when the beer is brewed under the control of Trappist-Cistercian monks that pours a cloudy golden orange with a large fluffy white head with the aroma of Belgian yeast, pear, apples, banana, clove and coriander.




  
I'm a Pilsner man myself.
  





 
  
 Waiting for reviews on this amp - patiently.


----------



## FiiO

johnnymnemonic said:


> I got it today, listening now and damn, haha even if there is a bit of shiny gadget syndrome,
> I really abused and underfed my hd 600,s all those years,
> Even from my note 3 usb to E17k and then to the A5 and into the sennies i am blown away.
> I just started to tweak the e17k with a 6 gain and a 2dot bass and that went better,
> ...


 





Wow, wonderful! Thank you for your support to our A5.


----------



## johnnymnemonic

niyologist said:


> Which one is better in terms of detail retrieval. The A5 or E17K?




I find it hard to say. I have only tested the difference yesterday with the sennheiser hd 600 by plugging from one to another amp on approximately the same volume level and no tweaks on base or gain on both devices and found only a tiny difference but strangely, on another track and different genres of music, the detail was better on the E17k or better on the new A5, depending on what i was listening to.
Perhaps the source plays a big part in this, no dedicated player. The E17k does the dac part for both and it could be the HD600 is so easy to drive that the difference is more apparent at much higher volumes. Not a spectacular difference with this particular setup for me but take into account I am a novice on this and still need to do some testing on lower impedance headphones.


----------



## Light - Man

Any further comparisons between the Fiio A5 and the E12A would be great.
  
I had the Fiio E12A in the past but I found it played things a little too safe and tried a little too hard not to offend. I thought the overall sound in particular the mid-range could do with a touch more body. Overall it was a good product and I preferred it to the Cayin C5 amp.
  
I also thought the E12A lacked some top end sparkle and an edge to the treble (when the music was recorded with this edge, etc.) - in other words it glossed over the rougher details and therefore reduced the overall transparency of the music.
  
I also thought the E12A lacked a little in dynamics and overall energy.
  
Note: I paired the E12A with a Ibasso DX90 DAP and Fiio X1, so my experience was limited.


----------



## TraneTime

fiio said:


> Wow, wonderful! Thank you for your support to our A5.


 
 When is it going to be available in the United States.  It's not on Amazon and a quick on-line check shows it is available in Hong Kong and England.


----------



## Gordhifi

I'm a bit torn between the A5 and Cayin c5. for my Hifiman 400i and Ibasso Dx90. Any thoughts? I've been kicking this around for days and others have recommended the Cayin until I found this thread.


----------



## Gordhifi

Quote:Here ya go 





tranetime said:


> When is it going to be available in the United States.  It's not on Amazon and a quick on-line check shows it is available in Hong Kong and England.


 
 https://www.amazon.com/A5-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier-Titanium/dp/B01M5G7LMI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1477518929&sr=8-6&keywords=fiio+a5


----------



## snellemin

gordhifi said:


> I'm a bit torn between the A5 and Cayin c5. for my Hifiman 400i and Ibasso Dx90. Any thoughts? I've been kicking this around for days and others have recommended the Cayin until I found this thread.


 
 The C5 is "brighter" vs the Muses when playing through the 400i.


----------



## TraneTime

Gordhifi,

Thanks! I've ordered it!


----------



## Gordhifi

snellemin said:


> The C5 is "brighter" vs the Muses when playing through the 400i.


 
 Not sure if thats a good thing or not for me.


----------



## Gordhifi

tranetime said:


> Gordhifi,
> 
> Thanks! I've ordered it!


 
 Looking forward to your thoughts and review.


----------



## viteok

For Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7 will be good this amplifier?


----------



## pranavtripathi

viteok said:


> For Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7 will be good this amplifier?




It should be. One of the reviews I read had someone using MSR7 with Fiio E12a. Considering sonically they are very similar it should be a good pairing. If you find the treble to be too sharp it will most probably help you a lot in that respect. 
Or you could look at other options too.


----------



## johnnymnemonic

What is best practice when hooking my hd 600 up. (300^ imp.)
Use low gain and turn the nob up or use the high gain switch and turn less?
Ps. What would be a good / awesome test track for testing settings?


----------



## pranavtripathi

johnnymnemonic said:


> What is best practice when hooking my hd 600 up. (300^ imp.)
> Use low gain and turn the nob up or use the high gain switch and turn less?
> Ps. What would be a good / awesome test track for testing settings?



I'd suggest you to start with Brooko's test tracks. And use both the options you mentioned above and compare which one you prefer more.


----------



## viteok

ок, I will risk to buy, I think it sounds good


----------



## johnnymnemonic

pranavtripathi said:


> I'd suggest you to start with Brooko's test tracks. And use both the options you mentioned above and compare which one you prefer more.




Thank u, I'm on it


----------



## Cinder

I just got the A5 in and am pairing it with my AP100 and 9018 SPDIF DAC. As someone who hasn't used stand-alone portable amps before, it's quite impressive how much juice I can get out of these. My 99 Classics, while not super-hard to drive, got so much louder than I had expected!
  
 The entire build of this thing oozes premium, and the bass-boost works _very _well. It's a very neat package.
  
 I'll try and get a full-review going. Currently waiting on a high-impedance + low-sensitivity IEM and a loaner ZMF Omni. That will be a much true-er test of this thing's potential.


----------



## Gordhifi

Ordered mine. Be here in a week or so.


----------



## Cinder

I took some pictures of the A5. Thought you guys might be interested.​ ​  ​ ​  ​ ​  ​ ​  ​ ​  ​ ​  ​ ​  ​


----------



## SalfordBoys

A5 with the xduoo x3, anyone any thoughts as to how good a combo that would be?


----------



## JamesFiiO

cinder said:


> I took some pictures of the A5. Thought you guys might be interested.​ ​  ​ ​  ​ ​  ​ ​  ​ ​  ​ ​  ​ ​  ​


 
  
 good photos.


----------



## keppes

So, i bought a pair of the Fostex T50rp Mk3s, which are hard to drive. I want to use them on my Galaxy S5, my Sansa Clip Zip and also on my Pc. Since I have no experience with amps and amp/dacs combos, I need the help of you guys. Do I need an amp/dac combo or would an amp only work for me? On my list are the Q1 (does it has enough power?) and the E12/A5. Should I wait for the Q5 in case i need a amp/dac combo?


----------



## HotIce

I drive the T40RP MK3 with the E12, and is plenty. I assume the A5, with basically the same output spec, would be fine as well.


----------



## Cinder

jamesfiio said:


> good photos.


 
 Thank you!


----------



## Richsvt

just purchased the A5 to pair with my X3ii. Had the E12 a long time ago so interested to hear how this sounds.
 On a stacking note, what's the consensus on the  silicon bands vs stacking kit vs Dual Lock? I would like to have the screen free from the silicon bands but the kit I had last time was a little flimsy. I am worried about the adhesive residue for the dual lock. Any comments?


----------



## Cinder

I don't have the X3ii, but the bands don't encroach on the screen on my AP100.


----------



## fish1050

richsvt said:


> just purchased the A5 to pair with my X3ii. Had the E12 a long time ago so interested to hear how this sounds.
> On a stacking note, what's the consensus on the  silicon bands vs stacking kit vs Dual Lock? I would like to have the screen free from the silicon bands but the kit I had last time was a little flimsy. I am worried about the adhesive residue for the dual lock. Any comments?


 
 I have been using dual lock for a couple of years now and it works great. I have my Sony A17 dual locked to my Q1.  I have replaced the strips a few times as I changed from the E11 to the A3 and now the Q1.  I get a tiny bit sometimes but it comes right off with a little soap and water.
  
 The nice thing about dual lock is it has a very low profile vs regular velcro so it gives it a very clean look when stacked.  If I want to charge one device I can snap them apart easily vs having to pull them apart with regular velcro.  When connected it holds very well and I have never had the devices come apart on their own.


----------



## Richsvt

fish,
 thanks for that. Nice to hear some positive feedback about how it has been working for some...


----------



## MihoLN

Anyone tried this with MDR-Z7? cauz I am still finding a good amp which can drive it fairly and not too expensive : P


----------



## oldmate

So when can we expect some reviews??


----------



## Cinder

I'll have mine done once I get in some more test earphones and headphones. Right now, everything I own is low impedance and high sensitivity.


----------



## FiiO

cinder said:


> I'll have mine done once I get in some more test earphones and headphones. Right now, everything I own is low impedance and high sensitivity.


 
 Hi, Cinder
 Looking forward to read your review soon!


----------



## Lohb

Is the bass boost region like the first version E12 ?
  
 I think there were 2 versions of E12, and some liked the tighter EQ zone of the first one if I remember.


----------



## Lohb

Well done Fiio anyway for bringing an excellently priced amp with Muse 02... !
 Industrial design also looking great.


----------



## palermo

will be great if they launch Muses01 edition. A5 apply +/-11V is good enough for wide range opamp voltage recuirement


----------



## Richsvt

Just received the A5 and connected it with the X3ii. Using my IT03s. Listening to Steely Dan's Aja, damn, gave me shivers all over again. Had it on low gain, black background, no hiss I could detect. Very nice depth and sound. This is a little warmer than the E12 I had some years ago. I like it a lot. Great synergy with the X3ii, as you would expect. My IT03s were singing. I know what I'm doing for the rest of the night...


----------



## snellemin

palermo said:


> will be great if they launch Muses01 edition. A5 apply +/-11V is good enough for wide range opamp voltage recuirement


 
 You could always swap out the Opamp yourself, if you are handy with a soldering iron. Desoldering with the soft copper legs of the Muses is a challenge though.


----------



## literallywho

(Well, it looks like I can't post pics yet...)
  
  
 I received mine earlier today. You can listen while you charge.
  
  
 I'm coming from an e11 and I'll add more pics and info later.


----------



## palermo

snellemin said:


> You could always swap out the Opamp yourself, if you are handy with a soldering iron. Desoldering with the soft copper legs of the Muses is a challenge though.




I look back at your post. you've done nice job, thanks for inspiring


----------



## ErnestPoland

Hi!

I was just about purchasing A5 when I've read it's warm. I want neutral sounding thing. Should I look for something else?
I use iPhone 6s+ with it's in-ears and Sony MDR-XB50AP. Occasionally ATH-M50X. 
Thanks!


----------



## Richsvt

Don't get me wrong when I called it warm, it just seems more warm than the older E12 I had a couple years ago. Definitely not warm as the definition goes.


----------



## csaba73

All,
  
 i hope the guys from FiiO pick this one up: I have been using the A5 for a couple of days with FiiO X5 and Sennheiser HD600.  Something was just off, then i decided to run some audiophile tests just to discover that the left and right channels were overlapping.  And the fault was in the FiiO provided headphone-to-headphone cable to connect the line-out of the X5 with the line-in of the A5.  Replacing this cable solved the issue.
  
 Shame on you FiiO to provide a faulty cable - or for not doing QA in the factory on your cables.
  
 Hope this helps fix the issue.


----------



## ceemsc

csaba73 said:


> All,
> 
> i hope the guys from FiiO pick this one up: I have been using the A5 for a couple of days with FiiO X5 and Sennheiser HD600.  Something was just off, then i decided to run some audiophile tests just to discover that the left and right channels were overlapping.  And the fault was in the FiiO provided headphone-to-headphone cable to connect the line-out of the X5 with the line-in of the A5.  Replacing this cable solved the issue.
> 
> ...




I generally replace the free included accessories with my own custom kit.


----------



## FiiO

csaba73 said:


> All,
> 
> i hope the guys from FiiO pick this one up: I have been using the A5 for a couple of days with FiiO X5 and Sennheiser HD600.  Something was just off, then i decided to run some audiophile tests just to discover that the left and right channels were overlapping.  And the fault was in the FiiO provided headphone-to-headphone cable to connect the line-out of the X5 with the line-in of the A5.  Replacing this cable solved the issue.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi, csaba73
 Sorry for bringing that inconvenience to you. Maybe it is a bad cable and we failed to pick it up.
 The cables use for headphone-to-headphone and linein to lineout are both 3.5mm to 3.5mm audio cable. Thank you for your feedback.


----------



## Cinder

csaba73 said:


> All,
> 
> i hope the guys from FiiO pick this one up: I have been using the A5 for a couple of days with FiiO X5 and Sennheiser HD600.  Something was just off, then i decided to run some audiophile tests just to discover that the left and right channels were overlapping.  And the fault was in the FiiO provided headphone-to-headphone cable to connect the line-out of the X5 with the line-in of the A5.  Replacing this cable solved the issue.
> 
> ...


 
 What test did you run? How did you run it?


----------



## csaba73

Cinder I used Audiophile FLAC test CD from HDTracks. It has around 80 tracks for testing your equipment and is only FLAC I could find. Enjoy


----------



## lsamod

I was going to  buy E21A for iems. Should I get A5 instead?


----------



## pranavtripathi

lsamod said:


> I was going to  buy E21A for iems. Should I get A5 instead? :confused_face(1):



If you're looking to drive mostly IEMs, it'd make sense to go for E12a. Sonically, I've read, they are very similar. So the E12a here will have the advantage of a better battery as well. In addition to that, if you have some harder to drive full sized cans, then A5 would make sense. 
Hope this helps


----------



## lsamod

pranavtripathi said:


> If you're looking to drive mostly IEMs, it'd make sense to go for E12a. Sonically, I've read, they are very similar. So the E12a here will have the advantage of a better battery as well. In addition to that, if you have some harder to drive full sized cans, then A5 would make sense.
> Hope this helps


 

 Thanks! I will use iems only. I'm looking at pico slim too. E12A is quite big compared to my sony A26 DAP.


----------



## slarck

I really don't understand you Fiio. X7 price increase, moreover X7 amp has bad crosstalk. DAP and dac/amp are replaced even faster than before, and now, you remove fiio e12a. It's not fair... Sure the sound of an amp is subjective to everyone. We haven't same system, same cans etc... However, i am sure you can ask any electronic engineer, there are some objective specifications of a good amp like low distortion, SNR etc...
  
 That's why this new amp shouldn't replace the e12a model:
 -The battery life is really decrease, so why don't let people choose the one they want ? Lower voltage but better battery life, or High voltage and lower battery life, or better battery life on a5 as options...
 -The crosstalk is one more time ignored... I have e12 and e12a on my own, i can really hear a huge stereo difference because the crosstlak is 20db better on e12a, and a5 haven't this great crosstalk. It's really important because loud speakers on headphones are very close...
 -distortion in low gain not really important at this point, 0.001% difference isn't huge, however in high gain, 0.01% THD a bit high because headphones distortion and others settings add a lot distortion, but that's great result compare too some other manufacturers.
  
 Now let's talk about voltage required for headphones. To be easy to understand, a low impedance headphones need high current, whereas high impedance ones need high voltage. It's deduce form Ohm law: U = Z x I and the power P = U x I. However, except if you want to be dull as fast as possible..., all good amp have enough of both to reach high dynamic. You don't listen for a 120db peak of a drum... Believe me, your ears will give up before you can hear it... The difference you hear from a high voltage amp, is not about dynamic max level, we don't listen enough loud for, but about rise time. (fastest time possible by the amp to change from low voltage value to high one, generally 10% to 90%) It's all about it. The more voltage you get, The less rise time is. And it is really important, because if the sound level change too fast, your amp can't reproduce it, and you lose some sound details. You need more and more short rise time when frequency is high, because the more high is the frequency, the less time you have to change sound level. That's why some amps seems sound warmth, neutral, sharp etc... It's all about taste.
  
 about the e12, almost all specifications seems better overall, maybe not for distortion graph in high gain, but i am pretty sure fiio e12 graph was only low gain, that's why distortion lower than a5 in high gain, and voltage peak is a bit under e12 15.5V. So, it's ok to replace the e12 only.
  
 So lot manufacturers know how to do a good amp, but they don't care about it, the goal is to sell not to satisfied the customer...
 There are easy rules to know what is a good amp.
 However i understand fiio want make pretty cheap amp for people. I am sure they can make a portable amp with really more voltage, more battery life as you can see on smartohones, high 100db crosstalk and so on, if it will be really more expensive. Really expect it.


----------



## Dobrescu George

slarck said:


> I really don't understand you Fiio. X7 price increase, moreover X7 amp has bad crosstalk. DAP and dac/amp are replaced even faster than before, and now, you remove fiio e12a. It's not fair... Sure the sound of an amp is subjective to everyone. We haven't same system, same cans etc... However, i am sure you can ask any electronic engineer, there are some objective specifications of a good amp like low distortion, SNR etc...
> 
> That's why this new amp shouldn't replace the e12a model:
> -The battery life is really decrease, so why don't let people choose the one they want ? Lower voltage but better battery life, or High voltage and lower battery life, or better battery life on a5 as options...
> ...


 
  
  
 You're unhappy with E12A going out? There are many new units available in many stores... I haven't heard A5 yet, so I won't say how it sounds before I do. Maybe it kept the best from both worlds?


----------



## Lohb

Looking out for a direct comparison to the Cayin C5 as price-wise and spec, it is the nearest other brand competitor.
  
 I'm hoping the A5 can power Fostex T20-RP Mk3 on high gain with some good headroom space left.


----------



## Erik_C

I just bought an A5 to replace my ancient Xin SuperMacro 3 v.6 with 627 opamps. I use Etymotic ER4Ss with custom molds. 
I use the high gain mode, and end up having the volume turned up about halfway. That's not crazy loud; it's just loud enough. There's no hiss or distortion at those settings. 
The verdict? I like it. Excellent control over the bass, with great depth and pitch definition. Midrange is neutral as can be. It's just a touch rolled off way up high, but it's still on the OK side of what I consider accurate. 
The only negative is that the mini cable that came with it to connect the amp to the mp3 player didn't work. I switched it out for some Cardas cable I had from my previous setup, and it worked fine.
Overall? Well done, Fiio, well done. It's a keeper.

UPDATE: after a couple hours of listening, I've determined that low gain mode, with more twist of the volume knob, has no high frequency roll off, slight as it was in high gain mode. In low gain, with the volume knob about 3/4 to the max, this amp is basically perfect for me and my taste in sound signature. I can't stress enough how amazing its control over bass is.


----------



## bangdomarkin

FiiO have plan to sell this in black color?


----------



## FiiO

bangdomarkin said:


> FiiO have plan to sell this in black color?


 
 Hi, bangdomarkin
 Yes, the black one is coming soon.


----------



## Lohb

fiio said:


> Hi, bangdomarkin
> Yes, the black one is coming soon.


 

 Do you have any on/off graphs on the bass boost region ?


----------



## lsamod

Can someone compare A5 to E12A? I will use only iems with it


----------



## slarck

I haven't said i am unhappy with the e12a. It has a very good crosstalk at this price range. I was just saying if fiio would like sell a much better amp which will be really more expensive. They can do it, but they don't because they want keep affordable products to let everyone buy one. Moreover e12 series and a5 are all made by fiio, with same size, and probably close same circuitry and sound. In my view, the real difference between the e12 and e12a is the power and crosstalk. The e12 has bad crosstalk and sharp sound due to high voltage and power. The e12 has really better crosstalk (it's easy to hear it) and due to lower voltage a more softer and relax sound.
 That's why when i see a5 specs i am pretty sure it's almost same sound as the e12 but with a better crosstalk. Maybe a more control sound for the treble because te e12 sound a bit zippy. Im really ask me where is ranked the e12diy. Probably the best overall.


----------



## Lohb

slarck said:


> I haven't said i am unhappy with the e12a. It has a very good crosstalk at this price range. I was just saying if fiio would like sell a much better amp which will be really more expensive. They can do it, but they don't because they want keep affordable products to let everyone buy one. Moreover e12 series and a5 are all made by fiio, with same size, and probably close same circuitry and sound. In my view, the real difference between the e12 and e12a is the power and crosstalk. The e12 has bad crosstalk and sharp sound due to high voltage and power. The e12 has really better crosstalk (it's easy to hear it) and due to lower voltage a more softer and relax sound.
> That's why when i see a5 specs i am pretty sure it's almost same sound as the e12 but with a better crosstalk. Maybe a more control sound for the treble because te e12 sound a bit zippy. Im really ask me where is ranked the e12diy. Probably the best overall.


 

 Isn't the A5 an extension of the design of E12DIY (without the chip rolling ability) rather than something between E12 and E12a  ?
 I'm also trying to place it myself in the line-up...


----------



## WitzyZed

slarck said:


> I haven't said i am unhappy with the e12a. It has a very good crosstalk at this price range. I was just saying if fiio would like sell a much better amp which will be really more expensive. They can do it, but they don't because they want keep affordable products to let everyone buy one. Moreover e12 series and a5 are all made by fiio, with same size, and probably close same circuitry and sound. In my view, the real difference between the e12 and e12a is the power and crosstalk. The e12 has bad crosstalk and sharp sound due to high voltage and power. The e12 has really better crosstalk (it's easy to hear it) and due to lower voltage a more softer and relax sound.
> That's why when i see a5 specs i am pretty sure it's almost same sound as the e12 but with a better crosstalk. Maybe a more control sound for the treble because te e12 sound a bit zippy. Im really ask me where is ranked the e12diy. Probably the best overall.




I know FiiO has not yet made any amps above $159 (USD) with E12A, but that is why I'm waiting for Q5. Amp possibilities are endless. In the end I will either use X3ii-A5 stack or iPhone 7-Q5 stack.
I really like the smoothness of my E12A as opposed to the grit/grunt of E12.
A5 just ups the output power back to E12 levels with E12A sound.


----------



## slarck

Interesting, so the a5 sound is really close to the e12a. Anyway i know fiio know how satisfied their more demanding customers. Maybe a K7 or a A7 could be ease my ears XD


----------



## leo5111

how is this power wise compared to the E12 not the E12A but the E12? and does it sound better then the E12??


----------



## WitzyZed

leo5111 said:


> how is this power wise compared to the E12 not the E12A but the E12? and does it sound better then the E12??



Mont Blanc output power to 32 ohm load was 880 mW
A5 output power to 32 ohm load is 800mW.


----------



## leo5111

witzyzed said:


> Mont Blanc output power to 32 ohm load was 880 mW
> A5 output power to 32 ohm load is 800mW.


 
 so slightly lower i was hoping for a  little higher


----------



## FiiO

leo5111 said:


> how is this power wise compared to the E12 not the E12A but the E12? and does it sound better then the E12??


 
 Hi, leo5111
 You can get more information of the comparison from: http://www.fiio.net/en/products/59/comparisons


----------



## ErnestPoland

FiiO A5 is coming to me. Can't wait


----------



## johnnymnemonic

Would it drive a old akg sextett okay and for some Time or Will the battery be drained in A short time?
I got the a5 bot not yet the sextett
AKG K240 sextett 600 ohm


----------



## Tom-s

Yes it will be able to drive the Sextetts as they are fairly efficient with 94dB/mW.
  
 * but can't state how well they'd do with this amp.


----------



## Cinder

Just finished up my testing for my hard-to-drive transducers.
  
 The A5 can power ZMF Omni's without any trouble on low gain, and can reach deafening levels on high-gain.
  
 The A5 can power Macaw GT100s without any trouble on low gain, as it is able to reach unsafe levels well before high-gain becomes necessary.
  
 My full review: http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amplifier/reviews/17279


----------



## MikiRawr

cinder said:


> Just finished up my testing for my hard-to-drive transducers.
> 
> The A5 can power ZMF Omni's without any trouble on low gain, and can reach deafening levels on high-gain.
> 
> ...




Very good written review. Did you maybe write one for e12a?


----------



## Cinder

mikirawr said:


> Very good written review. Did you maybe write one for e12a?


 
 Thank you @MikiRawr! I would love to, but it comes down to whether or not FiiO wants to send me a sample.


----------



## Dobrescu George

cinder said:


> Thank you @MikiRawr! I would love to, but it comes down to whether or not FiiO wants to send me a sample.


 
  
 Isn't A5 slightly warm? 
  
 You describe it as neutral sounding and clean, while most other people said that it's close to E12A which is slightly warm with some treble rolloff but with the best bass and mids in AMPs.


----------



## Cinder

dobrescu george said:


> Isn't A5 slightly warm?
> 
> You describe it as neutral sounding and clean, while most other people said that it's close to E12A which is slightly warm with some treble rolloff but with the best bass and mids in AMPs.


 
 It very well could be. However, when I A/B tested it against my AP100, which is a neutral source, I didn't hear a difference.


----------



## FiiO

cinder said:


> Just finished up my testing for my hard-to-drive transducers.
> 
> The A5 can power ZMF Omni's without any trouble on low gain, and can reach deafening levels on high-gain.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi, Cinder 
 Thank you for your review.


----------



## Lohb

cinder said:


> Thank you @MikiRawr! I would love to, but it comes down to whether or not FiiO wants to send me a sample.


 

 Have you ever has any time with Cayin C5 for comparison ?


----------



## toughnut

lohb said:


> Have you ever has any time with Cayin C5 for comparison ?




Interested too. Due to China Valentines Day celebration, big discount over at AliExpress. C5 only 5 bucks more.

Fiio A5 $119
Cayin C5 $124


----------



## Light - Man

toughnut said:


> Interested too. Due to China Valentines Day celebration, big discount over at AliExpress. C5 only 5 bucks more.
> 
> Fiio A5 $119
> Cayin C5 $124


 
  
 I had both C5 and E12A and I definitely preferred the E12A.
  
 The C5 had a colored sound to me and I prefer au naturale sound that I got more of with the E12A.
  
 I am not saying the E12A is perfect and I have seen lots of people sell theirs.
  
 I have found that external amps can give as well as take from the sound (a DAP in my case).
  
 The E12A is a nicer design where the C5 feels a bit el cheapo in the hand.


----------



## toughnut

Thanks Light Man. I just put order for C5 due to slightly lower price than average, most probably due to A5 new-ness. Moreover, C5 is DAC/AMP while A5 is purely amp only.


----------



## Light - Man

You are welcome Sir - lots of people are happy with the C5
  
 I believe the C5 is just an amp and from memory the C6 is a DAC-Amp.
  
 Try it and see if you like it and simply return or sell it if you don't - buying and receiving stuff is a lot more exciting than buying no stuff at all  - even if we don't really need more stuff!


----------



## toughnut

Truly agreed as that's my plan. Most of the time, it's the journey that count. At least that what I learnt from another hobby of mine, mechanical matches lol

New C5 is DAC/AMP combo.


----------



## Light - Man

toughnut said:


> Truly agreed as that's my plan. Most of the time, it's the journey that count. At least that what I learnt from another hobby of mine, mechanical matches lol
> 
> New C5 is DAC/AMP combo.


 
  
 Oh, its a new release C5 - do come back to us here (or pm me) with your thoughts.
  
 I think it is relevant as they are direct competitors in the price band and most guys will like to hear views/ comparisons.
  
 Edit: I remember it now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   http://www.head-fi.org/products/cayin-spark-c5-dac-portable-usb-dac-headphone-amplifier


----------



## Erik_C

Let me take a shot at answering this. I have a Fiio A5 and Ety Er4Ss. Compared to music straight out of the mp3 player, there's definitely a difference. First, the treble. Yeah, there's less treble than listening straight out of my source. But which is accurate? To answer that, I played the source through my home hifi system, which is pretty decent. The treble from the A5 most closely matched the sound I was getting from my home preamp and speakers. Plucked guitar strings, cymbals, the crunch of distorted Les Pauls, room echos, etc. were all more *noticeable* without the Fiio, but were more *accurately reproduced* with it. 

Going back to the Ety ER4Ss without the amp, the treble seemed harsh, exaggerated, and unnatural. Putting the A5 back in the circuit smoothed out the treble and made it sound more like I was hearing from my home system, even if it made the treble seem less. I wasn't sure that's what I wanted from my portable system (after all ER4S = best treble in the business, and more is better, right?), but then I realized I was less fatigued after listening to the Fiio in the circuit than I was without it. I enjoyed the music more. To me, that's a win. 

Mids and bass, the Fiio A5 kicks serious butt. Depth, control, etc. It's all there. 

Everyone's taste is different. My version of accurate might sound like I have a pillow over the my speaker's tweeters to you, or it might sound like the treble is boosted crazy high. But considering I hear live music every week, and have a home system that can do a pretty good job at reproducing music accurately, I find the Fiio to be accurate and pleasing, to my tastes. 



dobrescu george said:


> Isn't A5 slightly warm?
> 
> You describe it as neutral sounding and clean, while most other people said that it's close to E12A which is slightly warm with some treble rolloff but with the best bass and mids in AMPs.


----------



## Dobrescu George

erik_c said:


> Let me take a shot at answering this. I have a Fiio A5 and Ety Er4Ss. Compared to music straight out of the mp3 player, there's definitely a difference. First, the treble. Yeah, there's less treble than listening straight out of my source. But which is accurate? To answer that, I played the source through my home hifi system, which is pretty decent. The treble from the A5 most closely matched the sound I was getting from my home preamp and speakers. Plucked guitar strings, cymbals, the crunch of distorted Les Pauls, room echos, etc. were all more *noticeable* without the Fiio, but were more *accurately reproduced* with it.
> 
> Going back to the Ety ER4Ss without the amp, the treble seemed harsh, exaggerated, and unnatural. Putting the A5 back in the circuit smoothed out the treble and made it sound more like I was hearing from my home system, even if it made the treble seem less. I wasn't sure that's what I wanted from my portable system (after all ER4S = best treble in the business, and more is better, right?), but then I realized I was less fatigued after listening to the Fiio in the circuit than I was without it. I enjoyed the music more. To me, that's a win.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah...
  
 Treble for me needs to spark like there's no tomorrow. 
  
 Because I was/am part of music creation and I know exactly how treble should sound naturally, when hitting a cymbal and when the instruments are in the same room as the listener. 
  
 This doesn't mean that you tastes are any wrong, you should always go for what you enjoy. I just have peculiar listening tastes, that's all. 
  
 I'm glad to hear that FiiO kept that bass and mids that impressed everyone so much on E12A! This means that A5 is sure to make some people happy!


----------



## HotIce

lohb said:


> Have you ever has any time with Cayin C5 for comparison ?


 
  
 The C5 came after the E12, and I have to say, looking at the internal PCB and components, a borderline legal clone of the E12.


----------



## leo5111

hotice said:


> The C5 came after the E12, and I have to say, looking at the internal PCB and components, a borderline legal clone of the E12.


 

 iget confused some sites say the c5 is 880MW some say its 880+880? which is it and which is the e12?


----------



## HotIce

Yes, it is the same? Odd, isn't it?


----------



## Cinder

lohb said:


> Have you ever has any time with Cayin C5 for comparison ?


 
  


toughnut said:


> Interested too. Due to China Valentines Day celebration, big discount over at AliExpress. C5 only 5 bucks more.
> 
> Fiio A5 $119
> Cayin C5 $124


 
  
 I'll look into a review with Cayin.


----------



## velius

Hi everyone!
I have Fiio X5 II and want to buy in future Sennheiser hd800. Can A5 or E12 power it or I should buy K5 or another DAC/AMP?


----------



## Dobrescu George

velius said:


> Hi everyone!
> I have Fiio X5 II and want to buy in future Sennheiser hd800. Can A5 or E12 power it or I should buy K5 or another DAC/AMP?


 
  
 Depends on your preferences, I would go with E12 or Chord Mojo but HD800 needs a ton of power, so maybe a desktop amp like K5 or Matrix M-Stage would also be good options, depending on what signature you're looking for.
  
 X5ii works very well with all of the above, so you should have a ton of fun either way!


----------



## Lohb

leo5111 said:


> iget confused some sites say the c5 is 880MW some say its 880+880? which is it and which is the e12?


 

 Companies quote per channel/per output to each ear with IEM/headphones output.
 880mWatts per channel =
 1.76 Watts
 or
 1760 mWatts total output


----------



## audio123

c5 has better bass than a5.
 c5 is more natural.
 a5 wins for the staging.
 a5 is more transparent.
 tonality: c5
 lows: c5
 mids: c5
 highs: a5
 soundstage: a5
 details: a5
 sub bass of c5 vs mid bass of a5.
 both r good


----------



## Dobrescu George

audio123 said:


> c5 has better bass than a5.
> c5 is more natural.
> a5 wins for the staging.
> a5 is more transparent.
> ...


 
  
 But if I'm looking for a bright tight signature, your "better" is not my better. Please be more detailed in your descriptions, they aren't helpful at all since we all have different tastes and we look for different things...


----------



## audio123

dobrescu george said:


> But if I'm looking for a bright tight signature, your "better" is not my better. Please be more detailed in your descriptions, they aren't helpful at all since we all have different tastes and we look for different things...


 

 c5 bass is more smooth than a5.
 a5 bass is more analytical and tighter.
 cheers


----------



## ErnestPoland

So after your explanation, the A5 bass will be better for me. For you maybe not. That's called *personal preference*.


----------



## ErnestPoland

del


----------



## audio123

ernestpoland said:


> So after your explanation, the A5 bass will be better for me. For you maybe not. That's called *personal preference*.


 

 both r good btw. i have both


----------



## PapaThrust

@ Fiio
  
 Will you *please *explain or graph the bass boost response.
  
 Is it modeled the same as one of your other amps?
  
 The graph would be of interest to more than a few of us
  
 Thank you


----------



## Gordhifi

I've had the A5 for 2 weeks now. It tames the Dx 90's treble well. In fact, I didn't realize how strident the IBasso was. Although I was pairing it with the HE 400i and found the combo very pleasing. Never over 11:00 on the dial bass on and high gain. I think in time it will improve on an already excellent sound. No hiss and very transparent. My preferred tracks for testing was Diane Krall's Wallflower album. Her voice was smoothed out a bit and could hear her breath often when not before. On another note, I just got Umphrey Mcgee's new album Zonkey. A great mashup and good recording of outstanding musicians. Check youtube for a listen.


----------



## Dobrescu George

gordhifi said:


> I've had the A5 for 2 weeks now. It tames the Dx 90's treble well. In fact, I didn't realize how strident the IBasso was. Although I was pairing it with the HE 400i and found the combo very pleasing. Never over 11:00 on the dial bass on and high gain. I think in time it will improve on an already excellent sound. No hiss and very transparent. My preferred tracks for testing was Diane Krall's Wallflower album. Her voice was smoothed out a bit and could hear her breath often when not before. On another note, I just got Umphrey Mcgee's new album Zonkey. A great mashup and good recording of outstanding musicians. Check youtube for a listen.


 
  
 I need an amp that brightens and makes the volume easier to hear! 
  
 BTW, since you said that you never go over 11, on E12A, to get really high listening volume, you sometimes needed to go only as far as 9-10, I wonder how A5 works with sensitive IEMs, like Senn ie80


----------



## Sonic Defender

@FiiO, next time you REALLY, REALLY, need to include Bluetooth. It is almost a necessity these days. There should be the flexibility to be wireless. The Creative E5 is one such great little amp and DAC that included Bluetooth connectivity and man was that very convenient. Bluetooth Apt X sounds stunningly good and including the chip isn't too expensive and it will not in any way sonically degrade the performance of the A5 (it can be defeated anyway if a user wants). The days of not having Bluetooth for devices such as the A5 are pretty much done. Hopefully in the near future FiiO can release something like the A5 with BT. I would love to buy the A5, but I'm sick of wires, I have my main rig for cables, but a nice little compact device like the A5 should be free of USB cables to phones as they fail and are just in general a real pain in the ass. Anyway, that aside man does this look like an amazing device!


----------



## Koolpep

sonic defender said:


> @FiiO, next time you REALLY, REALLY, need to include Bluetooth. It is almost a necessity these days. There should be the flexibility to be wireless. The Creative E5 is one such great little amp and DAC that included Bluetooth connectivity and man was that very convenient. Bluetooth Apt X sounds stunningly good and including the chip isn't too expensive and it will not in any way sonically degrade the performance of the A5 (it can be defeated anyway if a user wants). The days of not having Bluetooth for devices such as the A5 are pretty much done. Hopefully in the near future FiiO can release something like the A5 with BT. I would love to buy the A5, but I'm sick of wires, I have my main rig for cables, *but a nice little compact device like the A5 should be free of USB cables to phones *as they fail and are just in general a real pain in the ass. Anyway, that aside man does this look like an amazing device!


 
  
 The A5 is free of USB cables to phones since it has no DAC and its only input is the analog 3.5mm input - the USB port is for charing the battery only.
  
 But in general - I agree - it's something that is missing in the Fiio line up but the A5 is a portable amp only - not a DAC/Amp - that would be the E18 and there the addition of BT makes sense. A pure analog amp like the A5 - is exactly what it is...analog cable from a DAC in - amplified sound out.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## FiiO

sonic defender said:


> @FiiO, next time you REALLY, REALLY, need to include Bluetooth. It is almost a necessity these days. There should be the flexibility to be wireless. The Creative E5 is one such great little amp and DAC that included Bluetooth connectivity and man was that very convenient. Bluetooth Apt X sounds stunningly good and including the chip isn't too expensive and it will not in any way sonically degrade the performance of the A5 (it can be defeated anyway if a user wants). The days of not having Bluetooth for devices such as the A5 are pretty much done. Hopefully in the near future FiiO can release something like the A5 with BT. I would love to buy the A5, but I'm sick of wires, I have my main rig for cables, but a nice little compact device like the A5 should be free of USB cables to phones as they fail and are just in general a real pain in the ass. Anyway, that aside man does this look like an amazing device!


 
 Hi, Sonic Defender
 Thank you for your kind suggestion. We will report to our engineers about that. And it seems that our later product Q5 may meet your need: http://www.head-fi.org/t/772186/fiio-q5-flagship-dac-amp-an-dual-dac-usb-optical-coaxial-line-in-share-the-same-amp-module-with-x7/660


----------



## Gordhifi

dobrescu george said:


> I need an amp that brightens and makes the volume easier to hear!
> 
> BTW, since you said that you never go over 11, on E12A, to get really high listening volume, you sometimes needed to go only as far as 9-10, I wonder how A5 works with sensitive IEMs, like Senn ie80


 
 I'll get back to you on the sensitivity on iems.


----------



## ballog

koolpep said:


> The A5 is free of USB cables to phones since it has no DAC and its only input is the analog 3.5mm input - the USB port is for charing the battery only.
> 
> But in general - I agree - it's something that is missing in the Fiio line up but the A5 is a portable amp only - not a DAC/Amp - that would be the E18 and there the addition of BT makes sense. A pure analog amp like the A5 - is exactly what it is...analog cable from a DAC in - amplified sound out.
> 
> Cheers.




I very very strongly agree! Fiio should get out of their comfort zone and make something that might rival the Astell&Kern XB10 (way way overpriced) or just a simple aptx bluetooth receiver with quality amp.


----------



## Lohb

audio123 said:


> c5 has better bass than a5.
> c5 is more natural.
> a5 wins for the staging.
> a5 is more transparent.
> ...


 

 Surprised A5 beats out C5 on sound-stage, as the Cayin was pretty great for that so A5 must be excellent !


----------



## Sonic Defender

koolpep said:


> The A5 is free of USB cables to phones since it has no DAC and its only input is the analog 3.5mm input - the USB port is for charing the battery only.
> 
> But in general - I agree - it's something that is missing in the Fiio line up but the A5 is a portable amp only - not a DAC/Amp - that would be the E18 and there the addition of BT makes sense. A pure analog amp like the A5 - is exactly what it is...analog cable from a DAC in - amplified sound out.
> 
> Cheers.


 
 Yes, my bad for not seeing that. Although, I'm trying to imagine why you would need a DAC as the BT chip handles incoming digital. I am not sure about this, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but in theory, could an amp not simply take the digital out from Bluetooth and amplify it? This isn't an area where I know as much as I feel I should so there could be a glaringly obvious reason why a DAC section would still be required with a portable amp to implement Bluetooth.


----------



## Sonic Defender

fiio said:


> Hi, Sonic Defender
> Thank you for your kind suggestion. We will report to our engineers about that. And it seems that our later product Q5 may meet your need: http://www.head-fi.org/t/772186/fiio-q5-flagship-dac-amp-an-dual-dac-usb-optical-coaxial-line-in-share-the-same-amp-module-with-x7/660


 
 Good to know! I will indeed be quite interested in this.


----------



## Headphone4Life

I've been without a portable amp for about a year after giving it to my niece so I ordered the A5 today. I had a chance to use my buddies E12 and was wondering if the A5 sounds as good or better seeing as its just an upgrade E12.

After reading through the thread I didn't see anyone saying they use the A5 with the Focal Elear, so if anyone has I'd like to know what you think. There's plenty of power obviously so I just want to know how they sound together, I'll be using the Elear along with my Nighthawk from time to time.


----------



## Lohb

headphone4life said:


> I've been without a portable amp for about a year after giving it to my niece so I ordered the A5 today. I had a chance to use my buddies E12 and was wondering if the A5 sounds as good or better seeing as its just an upgrade E12.


 

 From impressions, it seems to be a more refined version hybrid of E12A's sound and E12's power output.
  
 I've already recommended it to a friend for his planars. Killer price positioning for what you are getting.


----------



## Vaanres

i have a bose soundtrue ultra in-ear, should i buy a fiio a5 to improve the sound ? i mostly use with iphone 6s


----------



## FiiO

papathrust said:


> @ Fiio
> 
> Will you *please *explain or graph the bass boost response.
> 
> ...


 

 Test condition：Gain=High


----------



## PapaThrust

Woowee thats a lot of boost - Thank you, Fiio, for posting!


----------



## shyamelge

Can anyone inform me whether A5 can easily drive Fostex T50RP Mark3?


----------



## HotIce

The E12, which has the same power specs, can easily drive my T40RP MK3.
 And for easily, I mean at 11:00 volume position (high gain) it gets pretty loud already.
 Go here and input 50 Ohm and 92dB/mW:
  
 http://www.digizoid.com/power.php
  
 With 200mW you already get 115dB SPL, which is pretty damn loud.


----------



## shyamelge

Thank you. I am buying it.


----------



## ErnestPoland

Package came-in today. Gonna see what this thing can do.


----------



## shyamelge

Placed an order with a seller at aliexpress. The expected delivery time is 3-5 weeks.


----------



## ErnestPoland

So my first thought is, it's actually a bit warm. But the higher the volume, the sound is becoming cleaner, brighter. It's loud!


----------



## Sonic Defender

ernestpoland said:


> So my first thought is, it's actually a bit warm. But the higher the volume, the sound is becoming cleaner, brighter. It's loud!


 
 Not surprising, the original E12 was a tad warm and certainly powerful.


----------



## Hijodelbrx

Really looking for a detailed comparison between the A5 and the original E12.  So far in this thread I've read totally opposite impressions of the E12; strident vs. warm, so I'd like to see more info.  I use my E12 with UE TF10's and HD600's and am very happy with what I hear.  I'll keep a lookout, I'm sure the answers are forthcoming!


----------



## Townyj

Got an A5 on the way this week including some HD600's, looking forward to them both


----------



## l00l

Does the A5 have any disadvantages compared to the E12? 
I was going to get the E12, but now I guess I am better off with the A5?!
I will be using it mainly with my Beyerdynamic DT990 pro for gaming, movies and music, on occasions with IEMs maybe.


----------



## ceemsc

l00l said:


> Does the A5 have any disadvantages compared to the E12?
> I was going to get the E12, but now I guess I am better off with the A5?!
> I will be using it mainly with my Beyerdynamic DT990 pro for gaming, movies and music, on occasions with IEMs maybe.




As an E12 owner ; top of mind thoughts :-
- Rolled off treble based on others 1st impressions?
- Power indicators on the side instead of on top. Would that be blocked by your stack layout?
- No Crossfeed.
- Hi-Gain switch no longer recessed leading a potential volume safety issue?


----------



## ClieOS

ceemsc said:


> As an E12 owner ; top of mind thoughts :-
> - Rolled off treble based on others 1st impressions?
> - Power indicators on the side instead of on top. Would that be blocked by your stack layout?
> - No Crossfeed.
> - Hi-Gain switch no longer recessed leading a potential volume safety issue?


 
  
 There isn't any actual treble roll-off on A5. You can hear the treble just fine on A5, just that it has a smooth presentation that doesn't necessarily will put treble right in your face. In contrast, E12 can sound a bit too forward at time.
  
 Also, I have not heard of any one ever accidentally flipped the gain switch on either E12DIY or E12A since their release, and A5 shares the same design. I don't think that should be a concern.


----------



## shyamelge

Can anyone inform me in which sections of the amp - Muses 02 and LME 496700 have been put? 
  
 In Asus Essence One, there are various sections (I/V, LPF) where op amps are placed. Are there similar sections in A5?


----------



## ClieOS

shyamelge said:


> Can anyone inform me in which sections of the amp - Muses 02 and LME 496700 have been put?
> 
> In Asus Essence One, there are various sections (I/V, LPF) where op amps are placed. Are there similar sections in A5?


 
  
 I/V (current to voltage conversion) and LPF (low pass filter) only apply to a DAC circuit. A5 doesn't have a DAC inside, and therefore has no need for an I/V or LPF stage.
  
 In A5, MUSES02, which is an opamp, is used for gain stage - that is to boost the incoming signal (in voltage). Then the signal goes to LME49600, which is a current buffer, to increase the current output in order to drive the headphone.


----------



## shyamelge

Many thanks ClieOS for explaining me this technical stuff in a layman's language. Now I understand it.


----------



## flognarde

Reading some of the comments quite confuses me...
 I have a simple question, as I was thinking about replacing my X5II with some more refined DAP. But why not adding an amp ?
 So can I expect some sort of improvement stacking the A5 to my X5II ?
 I only listen to classical music and don't use hard to drive IEM's


----------



## blazinblazin

flognarde said:


> Reading some of the comments quite confuses me...
> I have a simple question, as I was thinking about replacing my X5II with some more refined DAP. But why not adding an amp ?
> So can I expect some sort of improvement stacking the A5 to my X5II ?
> I only listen to classical music and don't use hard to drive IEM's


 

 To me yes adding E12A to X5II do have improvements. A5 will be more powerful but using same chip as E12A so will be quite similar sound wise.
  
 You might want to try out first before buying.


----------



## flognarde

blazinblazin said:


> To me yes adding E12A to X5II do have improvements. A5 will be more powerful but using same chip as E12A so will be quite similar sound wise.
> 
> You might want to try out first before buying.


 
 Could you please go a little further on the improvements with the E12A ?


----------



## Light - Man

Quote:


blazinblazin said:


> To me yes adding E12A to X5II do have improvements. A5 will be more powerful but using same chip as E12A so will be quite similar sound wise.
> 
> You might want to try out first before buying.



  
  
 Quote:


flognarde said:


> *Could you please go a little further on the improvements with the E12A ?*


 
@flognarde
  
 I got a E12A and a A5 a few days ago but have not had much time to play with them yet, to complicate things I also have just got a Chord Mojo (again) so I have a few too many toys to play with.
  
 I have had the E12A before and found it a little clinical and to lack a little overall body to the sound. (with Ibasso DX90) The new A5 has gone the other way and has much more body to the sound - perhaps too much for some people? It may be considered a colored sound with some added warmth but to me at the moment, it is all in a good way, it has an upbeat musical expression, almost like a valve amp, that glides over some of the finer detail but the overall experience is an enjoyable one - the tuning from my experience it is quite a departure from the Fiio house sound.
  
 I have had the Fiio X5 which I did not enjoy because it was too clinical for me - so in your case I would try the A5 over the E12A.
  
 Early days for me but a lot has to do with pairings and personal preference.


----------



## ClieOS

light - man said:


> @flognarde
> 
> I got a E12A and a A5 a few days ago but have not had much time to play with them yet, to complicate things I also have just got a Chord Mojo (again) so I have a few too many toys to play with.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I A/B'ed E12A and A5 (volume matched) and reached a very different conclusion. To me, they sound quite similar in sound signature.
  
 Also, it is worth noting X5 and X5-II are very different sounding. Unlike X5, X5-II isn't clinical sounding at all but with more of a FiiO classic warm house sound. You really can't assume how one will sound based on the other.


----------



## grininja

What about the power it delivers. Will it be enough for Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250Ohm or Sennheiser HD600?


----------



## Light - Man

clieos said:


> I A/B'ed E12A and A5 (volume matched) and reached a very different conclusion. To me, they sound quite similar in sound signature.
> 
> Also, it is worth noting X5 and X5-II are very different sounding. Unlike X5, X5-II isn't clinical sounding at all but with more of a FiiO classic warm house sound. You really can't assume how one will sound based on the other.


 
  
 It just goes to show us that it is really pointless relying on other peoples impressions and that we all need to bite the bullet and try it for ourselves with our own pairings and own ears (hopefully 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 I think they are very different beasts - perhaps my E12A needs to burn-in a lot more than the A5?
  
 I believe the Fiio X5ii is less s!!!! than the X5 but I hear a lot of people selling theirs or looking to upgrade in some way.


----------



## ClieOS

light - man said:


> ... I believe the Fiio X5ii is less s!!!! than the X5 but I hear a lot of people selling theirs or looking to upgrade in some way.


 
  
 One of the reason is that X5 is tuned to be as neutral and transparent as possible was because it was mainly marketed toward the international market. By the time of X5-II, FiiO retuned it to be warmer to compensate for their Chinese market (which really prefer a warmish sound). it was done in purpose because they already had X7 at the time for international market. Personally, I am much prefer X5's signature over X5-II, though I will admit X5-II is a more refined DAP overall, especially in design and build quality.


----------



## Light - Man

clieos said:


> One of the reason is that X5 is tuned to be as neutral and transparent as possible was because it was mainly marketed toward the international market. By the time of X5-II, FiiO retuned it to be warmer to compensate for their Chinese market (which really prefer a warmish sound). it was done in purpose because they already had X7 at the time for international market. Personally, I am much prefer X5's signature over X5-II, though I will admit X5-II is a more refined DAP overall, especially in design and build quality.


 
  
 I think it just goes to show us that Fiio can't please everyone, I hated the X5, in fact I was spitting feathers when listening to it and could not return it soon enough.
  
 I find myself using the A5 and my Chord Mojo is not getting a look in so far, (but early days) will we ever be satisfied? I think not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW, I am pairing mine with Hidizs AP100 DAP and Yamaha HPH-MT220 (closed over ears).


----------



## Dobrescu George

light - man said:


> I think it just goes to show us that Fiio can't please everyone, I hated the X5, in fact I was spitting feathers when listening to it and could not return it soon enough.
> 
> I find myself using the A5 and my Chord Mojo is not getting a look in so far, (but early days) will we ever be satisfied? I think not.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What type of sound are you looking for?


----------



## flognarde

light - man said:


> @flognarde
> 
> I got a E12A and a A5 a few days ago but have not had much time to play with them yet, to complicate things I also have just got a Chord Mojo (again) so I have a few too many toys to play with.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for your impressions... One in certain, we don't share the same tastes... I loved the DX90 but was replaced by the DX80, so I bought the X5II : too much in your face for me, but Oh well, I got use to it ! This discussion tells me I really need to listen to one asap. At least I know now It actually changes the sound signature of the X5II !


----------



## Light - Man

flognarde said:


> Thank you for your impressions... One in certain, we don't share the same tastes... I loved the DX90 but was replaced by the DX80, so I bought the X5II : too much in your face for me, but Oh well, I got use to it ! This discussion tells me I really need to listen to one asap. At least I know now It actually changes the sound signature of the X5II !


 
  
 You are welcome sir, yes I also found the X5 to be so much in your face that it was right up your nostrils. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I found the DX90 to be a little clinical and sterile for my liking but that could have been partly due to the cans I was using. ( I never had decent IEM's at the time)
  
 From what you have said so far I would still take a punt on the A5.
  
 I believe that @Dobrescu George had both X5ii and E12A but has since sold them.
  
 George, I will answer your question in a few years time, when I find the answer!


----------



## flognarde

light - man said:


> You are welcome sir, yes I also found the X5 to be so much in your face that it was right up your nostrils.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I tried the DX90 with rather warm and leasy IEM's, the Shure SE215. The balance was near perfect, well balanced with cristal clear high and tight bass. Very detailed but I did not think it was clinical, just true to the recording. As you noticed I only deal with acoustic **** !
 Getting back to the topic, if the A5 brings more umph the the X5II, I doubt it will please me. That's not what the DAP is lacking...


----------



## Dobrescu George

light - man said:


> You are welcome sir, yes I also found the X5 to be so much in your face that it was right up your nostrils.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 X5ii is a really neutral to bright DAP, with a really clear treble, very tight bass and nice mids. Very very good soundstage. 
  
 E12A has way less treble, with some rolloff, has more bass but it's not as tight, and E12A has a  sweeter tone to mids. E12A will be prefered by most people for sure, and FiiO does a good job with it, but it's not exactly my cup of tea as much as X5ii is. 
  
 About tastes, the sooner you find what you are looking for, the sooner you can find your happiness. I have been using the wrong headphone and DAPs for a few years, and I was always tweaking their settings in hope I would someday find the golden balance or the golden sound, and it never worked out... Not once... Then I started binge testing headphone and DAPs, until I understood all sound terms and I found exactly what I was looking for in X5ii + ie800.
  
 A tight, clear, good soundsage, insane separation, tight bass, clear and sparkly treble with sweet mids sound.


----------



## flognarde

I couldn't wait ! Was the highest Ebay bidder on a mint condition FIIO E12A last night and purchased it for 79€. I guessed I did not need the extra power delivered by the A5. Apart from IEM's my only cans are the AKG K550's, and beeing a month away from beeing able to give the A5 a try... and too broke to switch to a new DAP !
 I might write a review in a few weeks.


----------



## Light - Man

flognarde said:


> I couldn't wait ! Was the highest Ebay bidder on a mint condition FIIO E12A last night and purchased it for 79€. I guessed I did not need the extra power delivered by the A5. Apart from IEM's my only cans are the AKG K550's, and beeing a month away from beeing able to give the A5 a try... and too broke to switch to a new DAP !
> I might write a review in a few weeks.


 
 The E12A is a very good amp, it has better battery life than the A5, I like both E12A and A5 in different ways, too early to decide yet.
  
 If you like the Ibasso DX90 presentation you will likely prefer the E12A.
  
 The volume knob on the A5 is a bit slippery compared to the E12A.


----------



## flognarde

light - man said:


> The E12A is a very good amp, it has better battery life than the A5, I like both E12A and A5 in different ways, too early to decide yet.
> 
> If you like the Ibasso DX90 presentation you will likely prefer the E12A.
> 
> The volume knob on the A5 is a bit slippery compared to the E12A.


 
 First impressions in a few days... I also ordered the L16 fiio cable to go with it, even though I doubt it will change anything but one never knows and it looks better !


----------



## ErnestPoland

The volume knob on A5 isn't slippery at all. It have this nice facture and resistance so it operates very smoothly and accurately.


----------



## Light - Man

ernestpoland said:


> The volume knob on A5 isn't slippery at all. It have this nice facture and resistance so it operates very smoothly and accurately.


 
  
 As I said, compared to the E12A it is less user friendly but not a deal breaker, I definitely prefer the E12A knob.


----------



## ErnestPoland

Didn't had the E12 so I can't compare. You might be right, but none the less the A5 operates pretty nice to me


----------



## Sonic Defender

light - man said:


> As I said, compared to the E12A it is less user friendly but not a deal breaker, I definitely prefer the E12A knob.


 
 Do you have both now? If so, do you think if somebody helped you do a blind listening test you could tell them apart?


----------



## Light - Man

sonic defender said:


> Do you have both now? If so, do you think if somebody helped you do a blind listening test you could tell them apart?


 
  
 Yes, I have both E12A and A5 at the same time.
  
 I noticed that the E12A is improving with burn-in but the A5 sounded good straight out of the box.
  
 I am very confident I could tell them apart in a random blind and deaf test. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The only problem is that my wife might try to strangle me when doing a blind test as she is not too keen on my audio obsession. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have had some PM's with *Twister6* and he also thinks they sound different and will review the A5 in the near future.


----------



## Townyj

Received my A5 yesterday, only had a small chance to listen so far. Excellent build and the sound... well so far so good


----------



## ErnestPoland

I am liking my new A5 more and more every day. Sound is really powerful and smooth.


----------



## Headphone4Life

I've had my A5 for about 7 hours now and its a very good portable hp amp at its price point. I've hooked it up to my X5II and used my Elear and I think they sound as good or better than when I use the K5 dock amp. There's also plenty of power to push my HE-400i with ease. A nice and black background with no hissing at all. For $130 I think the A5 is a very good buy.

Its been an hour or so since my first post and I've come to the conclusion that I like the portable A5 over the desktop K5. I don't use the bass boost but I feel like the bass sounds cleaner and tighter on the A5 and the mids are a touch more forward which I like. As I'm getting use to its signature (there is no burn-in on amps or daps but that's for another time) its sounding really good with my X5II and Elear, now to takeout to old Nighthawks to give them a go.


----------



## FiiO

headphone4life said:


> I've had my A5 for about 7 hours now and its a very good portable hp amp at its price point. I've hooked it up to my X5II and used my Elear and I think they sound as good or better than when I use the K5 dock amp. There's also plenty of power to push my HE-400i with ease. A nice and black background with no hissing at all. For $130 I think the A5 is a very good buy.
> 
> Its been an hour or so since my first post and I've come to the conclusion that I like the portable A5 over the desktop K5. I don't use the bass boost but I feel like the bass sounds cleaner and tighter on the A5 and the mids are a touch more forward which I like. As I'm getting use to its signature (there is no burn-in on amps or daps but that's for another time) its sounding really good with my X5II and Elear, now to takeout to old Nighthawks to give them a go.


 
 Hi, Headphone4Life





 Glad to learn that the A5 meet your need!


----------



## Sonic Defender

light - man said:


> Yes, I have both E12A and A5 at the same time.
> 
> I noticed that the E12A is improving with burn-in but the A5 sounded good straight out of the box.
> 
> ...


 
 You are lucky, I think my ex would just strangle me anyway, at least your wife will have a reason beyond random, wanton violence! Glad you are enjoying the A5. I would grab it, but I'm waiting for the Q5 with Bluetooth as I require/want wireless.


----------



## RedJohn456

headphone4life said:


> I've had my A5 for about 7 hours now and its a very good portable hp amp at its price point. I've hooked it up to my X5II and used my Elear and I think they sound as good or better than when I use the K5 dock amp. There's also plenty of power to push my HE-400i with ease. A nice and black background with no hissing at all. For $130 I think the A5 is a very good buy.
> 
> Its been an hour or so since my first post and I've come to the conclusion that I like the portable A5 over the desktop K5. I don't use the bass boost but I feel like the bass sounds cleaner and tighter on the A5 and the mids are a touch more forward which I like. As I'm getting use to its signature (there is no burn-in on amps or daps but that's for another time) its sounding really good with my X5II and Elear, now to takeout to old Nighthawks to give them a go.


 
 They sound quite good with the Nighthawks, the clean sound of the A5 balancing the sound of hawks, I really enjoyed this pairing.


----------



## audio123

redjohn456 said:


> They sound quite good with the Nighthawks, the clean sound of the A5 balancing the sound of hawks, I really enjoyed this pairing.


 

 trust redjohn456. his comments r legit


----------



## Sonic Defender

audio123 said:


> trust redjohn456. his comments r legit


 
 Maybe so, but it is possible that he is a Maple Leafs fan and that might taint his trustworthiness.


----------



## shyamelge

Can one replace the Muses 02 op amp or is it soldered on the board?


----------



## ClieOS

shyamelge said:


> Can one replace the Muses 02 op amp or is it soldered on the board?


 
  
 Soldered on PCB, and very difficult to replaceable even if you have the right tools and good enough with a soldering iron, because of all the tiny caps and resistors that surrounding it.


----------



## cleg

my initial impressions video

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNQjHnGtMGw[/VIDEO]


----------



## FiiO

cleg said:


> my initial impressions video


 






Thank you for sharing with us! Great!


----------



## blackmondy

How is the soundstage of the A5 ? The E12 was terrible in this regard. 

The Voyager has a more airy soundstage.


----------



## Dobrescu George

blackmondy said:


> How is the soundstage of the A5 ? The E12 was terrible in this regard.
> 
> The Voyager has a more airy soundstage.


 
  
 E12 had a great soundstage when I tested it... 
  
 Interesting that someone didn't find it as such. 
  
 What headphones were you using?


----------



## TheoS53

dobrescu george said:


> E12 had a great soundstage when I tested it...
> 
> Interesting that someone didn't find it as such.
> 
> What headphones were you using?


 
 I'm also quite curious about the sound stage. I recently got the DX80, and just for kicks and giggles I connected my E12A to it. Unfortunately I really didn't like the sound. The E12A felt very congested and narrow in comparison


----------



## Dobrescu George

theos53 said:


> I'm also quite curious about the sound stage. I recently got the DX80, and just for kicks and giggles I connected my E12A to it. Unfortunately I really didn't like the sound. The E12A felt very congested and narrow in comparison


 
  E12A can feel like that because of treble smoothness, but E12 has full treble energy, it should be really expansive in soundstage...


----------



## shyamelge

I got mine today. I am very impressed with my initial testing.
  
 Listened to a variety of genre - jazz vocal, instrumental, classical, rock with Fostex T50RP III. I had to put it on hi-gain to listen to most of my music albums since the output from my phone (Motorola E) and A5 (with low gain) at full volume was not adequate to drive Fostex. Currentlly, I am using it at 50-70% of the volume with hi-gain on. 
  
 The sound stage is very wide. The sound output is clean and transparent. 
  
 At the price I paid at aliexpress, it is a value for money amp. No regrets. A definitely keeper.


----------



## blackmondy

dobrescu george said:


> E12 had a great soundstage when I tested it...
> 
> Interesting that someone didn't find it as such.
> 
> What headphones were you using?




I'm surprised you find the E12 good with soundstage. Do try the Voyager if you have the chance, it's literally day and night. Even my Teac HA-P50 dac/amp sounds better though not in the class of the Voyager. 

I use silver-cabled Audio Technica ESW9,Philips SHP9500 and Beyerdynamic DT990, with IBasso DX90.


----------



## Dobrescu George

blackmondy said:


> I'm surprised you find the E12 good with soundstage. Do try the Voyager if you have the chance, it's literally day and night. Even my Teac HA-P50 dac/amp sounds better though not in the class of the Voyager.
> 
> I use silver-cabled Audio Technica ESW9,Philips SHP9500 and Beyerdynamic DT990, with IBasso DX90.


 
  
 E12 and not E12A?... 
  
 It's not exceptional with soundstage, but it's the best I heard in it's price range, and an extremely good amp nonetheless. 
  
 The brighter treble of E12 makes sound much more holographic to my ears (?)


----------



## fish1050

dobrescu george said:


> E12 had a great soundstage when I tested it...
> 
> Interesting that someone didn't find it as such.
> 
> What headphones were you using?


 
 The sound stage is really dependent on the music being played.  If the track has a wide sound stage you will perceive the E12 has a wide sound stage.  Iem's vs heaphones will also be a factor for sound stage as well.
  
 When I was considering purchasing the E12 I read several professional reviews and most felt the sound stage was okey but not great.  Sound staging has never been an attribute of Fiio products in general.  Their DAP's are not known for a wide sound stage either.  But their units do seem to be getting better with each new version so I am sure the A5 should be an improvement.  Since sound stage is very music centric I prefer to judge by imaging and air vs sound stage.
  
 I find my Sony A17 has better air and imaging when paired with my Fiio Q1.  The sound stage also seems a little wider but not very deep adding the Q1 and comparing tracks with and without the Q1.


----------



## fish1050

I am glad to see Fiio is continuing to fix the issues with the X1 II. But given Fiio's previous mention that there really is only one SOC for them to use I think the hardware lag will be very hard to fix.  Going forward Fiio needs to add more on board RAM to improve processing power or at least add internal storage to use as a buffer.  Hopefully Fiio can source a better SOC in the future as well.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Hm... 
  
 My music is mostly metal and pop and sharp music in general - lots of cymbals - treble makes a big change in soundstage. 
  
 Having listened to over 100 setups so far, one thing that I feel is confusion. I... I don't know anymore... I like Fiio X5ii best from all setups for it's sound and overall experience from all setups I heard, but I use the same headphones and IEMs as I did for a good while, maybe changing those would also change source preference, but it seems I found a sweet spot on headphones.


----------



## Vergil

Is it worth it to upgrade from the E12A? Since the A5 is cheaper, I could sell my E12A and buy the A5 for about $30-50 extra only.  I have a Beyer T90, which is kinda efficient. The fact that I get a brand new device with 2 year warranty alone seems tempting though


----------



## Dany1

I received my Fiio A5 2 days ago.I had high expectations but i'm left a bit disappointed.However,i'm not entirely sure if it's the dac that bottlenecks the sound quality since i don't own a dedicated dac through which i could connect it on a line out and have only tried it through the headphone out of laptop and mobiles.I tried Fiio A5 with my laptop,samsung galaxy s4 and also on a friend's Lg v10 which i thought has a really good built-in dac so it would make my confusion clear.I tried 2 earphones.Havi B3 pro-I and Trinity delta.
  
 Let me highlight the problems i'm facing with the amp:
  
 1: On low gain,Even tho i'm using iems i have to turn the volume pot to full to achieve any decent volume and the dynamic range isn't great unless i switch to high gain..It's the same case on all the 3 devices i've tried it on.
  
 2: On high gain,i do get more volume but as i start turning up the volume knob it also introduces noise floor,hiss,It wasn't that much present on s4 and v10 but still it was there.On high volume,it starts making things sound harsh,messy and distorted.Even when connected to the lg v10.
  
 Also i find it really odd that the hi-res logo print isn't properly aligned.
  

  
 Could i possibly have a faulty unit,does anyone else face these issues ?


----------



## Dobrescu George

dany1 said:


> I received my Fiio A5 2 days ago.I had high expectations but i'm left a bit disappointed.However,i'm not entirely sure if it's the dac that bottlenecks the sound quality since i don't own a dedicated dac through which i could connect it on a line out and have only tried it through the headphone out of laptop and mobiles.I tried Fiio A5 with my laptop,samsung galaxy s4 and also on a friend's Lg v10 which i thought has a really good built-in dac so it would make my confusion clear.I tried 2 earphones.Havi B3 pro-I and Trinity delta.
> 
> Let me highlight the problems i'm facing with the amp:
> 
> ...


 
  
 A5 is an amp, it sounds best connected to a dedicated line out from a DAC, but not having enough volume is really strange, there should be no such thing with an amp this strong, maybe your unit is broken. Best solution is to take it to the store and have it checked. 
  
 The sticker is just a sticker, don't mind fine details so much, but the sound shouldn't have the volume problem at all. As for the hiss problem, someone who owns one of the IEMs you do can tell if it's normal or not.


----------



## Vergil

dany1 said:


> I received my Fiio A5 2 days ago.I had high expectations but i'm left a bit disappointed.However,i'm not entirely sure if it's the dac that bottlenecks the sound quality since i don't own a dedicated dac through which i could connect it on a line out and have only tried it through the headphone out of laptop and mobiles.I tried Fiio A5 with my laptop,samsung galaxy s4 and also on a friend's Lg v10 which i thought has a really good built-in dac so it would make my confusion clear.I tried 2 earphones.Havi B3 pro-I and Trinity delta.
> 
> Let me highlight the problems i'm facing with the amp:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Being able to turn the volume all the way up without going deaf indicates that the signal is too weak or the amp circuit is faulty so you get piss poor SNR, which explains every problem you are experiencing. 
 Can you get enough volume *without* the A5? How much headroom do you have for volume after getting the volume you want?


----------



## FiiO

dany1 said:


> I received my Fiio A5 2 days ago.I had high expectations but i'm left a bit disappointed.However,i'm not entirely sure if it's the dac that bottlenecks the sound quality since i don't own a dedicated dac through which i could connect it on a line out and have only tried it through the headphone out of laptop and mobiles.I tried Fiio A5 with my laptop,samsung galaxy s4 and also on a friend's Lg v10 which i thought has a really good built-in dac so it would make my confusion clear.I tried 2 earphones.Havi B3 pro-I and Trinity delta.
> 
> Let me highlight the problems i'm facing with the amp:
> 
> ...


 
 Dear Dany1
 Thank you for your kind feedback to us. The A5 is an AMP only so it doesn't have DAC function.
 If you mean the volume almost has no changes in low gain, it may be abnormal. But it may depend on your source as well. You can try the demo in the local stores to see whether the phenomenon is same.
 It is not recommended to use the extra AMP for a headphone port because it will go through both the amp module of the players and the amp module of extra AMP. But so of our users may prefer this as well. Collecting to the line out port may be a better choice.
 For the his-res sticker issue, maybe it is some offset with a few stickers. We will pay more attention to this in later products. Sorry if bringing inconvenience to you.  
 Best regards


----------



## Erik_C

Despite my initial enthusiasm for the A5, after a few weeks of listening to it with my Ety ER4Ss, I returned it today. Why? A couple reasons. Primarily a lack of high frequencies. It's dark, or rolled off, up high. There's a lack or air with breathy voices and, for example, violins. The "sparkle" from brushed cymbals is all but missing. Second, the soundstage is compressed. Both vertically and horizontally. It's the musical equivalent of squinting: you are forced to focus only on the center.

The A5 is well made, has plenty of power, killer bass, and is the perfect size. I just wish it sounded good. Perhaps if there were a way to switch out OPAMPS and buffers, it could be made to sound better. FiiO, any chance you can make a DIY edition of the A5? Or even send me one where I can play with those things and help you get it voiced properly?

In the meantime, I'm on the lookout for a portable amp of approximately the A5's size, but with better soundstage and neutral highs that let my ER4Ss treble shine. Any recommendations?


----------



## Light - Man

erik_c said:


> Despite my initial enthusiasm for the A5, after a few weeks of listening to it with my Ety ER4Ss, I returned it today. Why? A couple reasons. Primarily a lack of high frequencies. It's dark, or rolled off, up high. There's a lack or air with breathy voices and, for example, violins. The "sparkle" from brushed cymbals is all but missing. Second, the soundstage is compressed. Both vertically and horizontally. It's the musical equivalent of squinting: you are forced to focus only on the center.
> 
> The A5 is well made, has plenty of power, killer bass, and is the perfect size. I just wish it sounded good. Perhaps if there were a way to switch out OPAMPS and buffers, it could be made to sound better. FiiO, any chance you can make a DIY edition of the A5? Or even send me one where I can play with those things and help you get it voiced properly?
> 
> In the meantime, I'm on the lookout for a portable amp of approximately the A5's size, but with better soundstage and neutral highs that let my ER4Ss treble shine. Any recommendations?


 
  
 EriK, coincidentally I was intending to post my thoughts today but am having difficulties verbalizing what I don't like about it.
  
 Likewise, initially I liked the sound straight out of the box but it could have been new toy syndrome but with further burn-in I find myself not liking the sound even though it has plenty of power.
  
 Somehow it seems to mess up the sound, one thing I noticed from the start is that it places vocals further back and seems to lose some articulation.
  
 I find it has more top end than the E12A and has a more spacious sound but the E12A has better vocals.
  
 I can't say that I am really enjoying either the A5 or E12A, so the jury is still out for me and will likely return both but I have until the end of January to return them.
  
 I left the A5 running for about 15 hours recently with my latest purchase (Beyer T1 Gen 2) and not really enjoying the experience.
  
 I will give further opinions when and if I can be bothered, remember these are just my opinions at the moment.


----------



## RedJohn456

This setup is driving me absolutely bananas! Loving it


----------



## audio123

redjohn456 said:


> This setup is driving me absolutely bananas! Loving it


 

 superb setup


----------



## audio123

fiio said:


> Dear Dany1
> Thank you for your kind feedback to us. The A5 is an AMP only so it doesn't have DAC function.
> If you mean the volume almost has no changes in low gain, it may be abnormal. But it may depend on your source as well. You can try the demo in the local stores to see whether the phenomenon is same.
> It is not recommended to use the extra AMP for a headphone port because it will go through both the amp module of the players and the amp module of extra AMP. But so of our users may prefer this as well. Collecting to the line out port may be a better choice.
> ...


 

 most of the a5 i saw have poorly aligned stickers


----------



## snellemin

erik_c said:


> The A5 is well made, has plenty of power, killer bass, and is the perfect size. I just wish it sounded good. Perhaps if there were a way to switch out OPAMPS and buffers, it could be made to sound better. FiiO, any chance you can make a DIY edition of the A5? Or even send me one where I can play with those things and help you get it voiced properly?


 
 You can always DIY, if you are handy with a soldering iron.  It's kinda based of the E12A, so it's not to hard to do.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/737615/new-fiio-e12a-for-iems/1290#post_12948445


----------



## Light - Man

snellemin said:


> You can always DIY, if you are handy with a soldering iron.  It's kinda based of the E12A, so it's not to hard to do.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/737615/new-fiio-e12a-for-iems/1290#post_12948445


 
 Thanks for the link!
  
 Which would you reckon would be the best to mod, E12A or A5 (E12A has a better battery)?
  
 I wonder if the A5 was made to be cheaper and not necessarily better than the E12A?
  
 Any other portable amps that we could consider?


----------



## snellemin

light - man said:


> Thanks for the link!
> 
> Which would you reckon would be the best to mod, E12A or A5 (E12A has a better battery)?
> 
> ...


 
 Better battery, no.  More power equals a bigger amp case.  It's not gonna happen.  
  
 I have the DIY version too and most other owners like the Muses02 in it.  That is where the E12A came from and it was a big hit in my eyes.  I never heard the A5, so I can't commend if it sounds different compared to what I have.  But I can tell you, that I carry my modded E12A everywhere I need portable music.  The E12 DIY doesn't get much love from me, except when I watch movies with my planar.


----------



## Erik_C

snellemin said:


> You can always DIY, if you are handy with a soldering iron.  It's kinda based of the E12A, so it's not to hard to do.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/737615/new-fiio-e12a-for-iems/1290#post_12948445



 


Not too easily, actually, from what I've seen. It's moot anyway, as the A5 is on its way back to FiiO.


----------



## snellemin

erik_c said:


> snellemin said:
> 
> 
> > You can always DIY, if you are handy with a soldering iron.  It's kinda based of the E12A, so it's not to hard to do.
> ...


 
 Desoldering the Muses is tricky due to it's soft copper legs.  But it's doable.  The DIY Fiio amp is still available if you feel like opamp rolling.


----------



## Erik_C

snellemin said:


> Desoldering the Muses is tricky due to it's soft copper legs.  But it's doable.  The DIY Fiio amp is still available if you feel like opamp rolling.



 


I can't justify the $80 price jump for the DIY model. Isn't it LESS work for FiiO to make it? (No soldering OPAMPS or anything...)


----------



## snellemin

erik_c said:


> snellemin said:
> 
> 
> > Desoldering the Muses is tricky due to it's soft copper legs.  But it's doable.  The DIY Fiio amp is still available if you feel like opamp rolling.
> ...


 
 You would think that, but they have to pay some group of people to assemble the units with the opamps and buffers.  Then there was the fact of limited run units, which brings up the price.


----------



## TheoS53

dany1 said:


> I received my Fiio A5 2 days ago.I had high expectations but i'm left a bit disappointed.However,i'm not entirely sure if it's the dac that bottlenecks the sound quality since i don't own a dedicated dac through which i could connect it on a line out and have only tried it through the headphone out of laptop and mobiles.I tried Fiio A5 with my laptop,samsung galaxy s4 and also on a friend's Lg v10 which i thought has a really good built-in dac so it would make my confusion clear.I tried 2 earphones.Havi B3 pro-I and Trinity delta.
> 
> Let me highlight the problems i'm facing with the amp:
> 
> ...


 
  They shipped the same stickers with the X1ii. It's these relatively small and simple oversights that made me lose confidence in FiiO. As someone else said, "it's just a sticker"...and that's a valid point, but my rationale is this: If there are blatant oversights on the outside of the product, what does that imply for the internals?


----------



## FiiO

audio123 said:


> most of the a5 i saw have poorly aligned stickers


 
 Dear audio123
 It seems to be some offset with the his-res sticker issue of this batch according to the feedback for your guys. Thank you for your kind feedback to us. We get to know this problem and will pay more attentions in later products. Sorry if bringing inconvenience to you. 
 Best regards


----------



## Lohb

Oh no, oh no, the sticker is not aligned. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Peel it off and flick it in the bin. End of.
 Jeeeez....


----------



## ceemsc

lohb said:


> Oh no, oh no, the sticker is not aligned.
> Peel it off and flick it in the bin. End of.
> Jeeeez....




Coffee stains on the seat-tray table is no safe assurance that the necessary due care & maintenance is being performed on the engines and/or airframe...

iBasso does the same thing; focuses on the headline product but provides a cheap peripheral/interconnect that lets down the whole package/customer experience.


----------



## Dobrescu George

It's just a sticker and some of us actually peel it off anyways, like most laptop stickers


----------



## audio123

this little thing shows the level of QC for Fiio.
 you won't see such thing for Astell & Kern.


----------



## Erik_C

audio123 said:


> this little thing shows the level of QC for Fiio.
> 
> 
> you won't see such thing for Astell & Kern.



 


Let's get back to discussing the sound of the A5. Too dark or not? Compressed sound stage or not? I vote yes to both of those questions. Interestingly, instead of addressing my comments, FiiO chose to respond to a complaint about offset stickers, which was posted after my post detailing the fatal flaws I believe are inherent in the A5.


----------



## ceemsc

erik_c said:


> Too dark or not? Compressed sound stage or not? I vote yes to both of those questions.
> 
> 
> Hmm.. I was hoping the MUSES02 OPAMP chip would fix that problem compared to the E12. I guess that chip's strength is detail retrieval not soundstage width & layering.
> ...


----------



## RedJohn456

I am literally trying not to lose my **** at how fricking good this combo sounds! Je***!
  
 xDuoo X10 => FiiO A5 => Sennheiser HD600 +  Venture Electronics HD600 cable (balanced cable with single ended adapter - cable is pretty good too).


----------



## snellemin

audio123 said:


> this little thing shows the level of QC for Fiio.
> you won't see such thing for Astell & Kern.


 
 I'll align your sticker for $200,-, courtesy of Astell & Kern.


----------



## snellemin

ceemsc said:


> Hmm.. I was hoping the MUSES02 OPAMP chip would fix that problem compared to the E12. I guess that chip's strength is detail retrieval not soundstage width & layering.
> My DAP uses the RockBox custom stereo width, Haas effect & PEQ to counteract any narrow soundstage or high treble roll-off. I lose this when I hook my rig upto the PC/TV for games & movies.
> 
> Maybe the FiiO reps in this forum are Sales & PR as opposed to the engineers & audio enthusiasts...


 
 For your PC, install some VST's and for your TV it's time to get some sound processing hardware.  You have to pay to play with this quest for audio heaven.


----------



## audio123

erik_c said:


> audio123 said:
> 
> 
> > this little thing shows the level of QC for Fiio.
> ...


 

 it sounds slick in the upper register. decent width of soundstage.
 what is your source and interconnect used?


----------



## RedJohn456

erik_c said:


> audio123 said:
> 
> 
> > this little thing shows the level of QC for Fiio.
> ...


 
  
 I would beg to differ, with respect to A5 sounding too dark and compressed. In fact, I find that when used with my various sources it tends to widen the soundstage and invaraibly sounds more transparent than the built in amplifiers in my gears. When paired with my best sources it sounds immense.
  
 The A5 is not "bright", but that should not be conflated with being dark in my opinion. It is neutral and transparent, with perhaps a smidge of airyness up top. Too many gears add a certain flavor, for example treble forwardness and make claims of being more detailed. Frankly, FiiO tuned the A5 right. It adds NO flavor of its own, but rather let the DAC speak for itself.
  
 Also, you will notice that most manufacturers (teh ones that know better) do not directly enter debates about sound qualities unless it pertains to a defect or an issue that they can help with. Cheers.


----------



## Erik_C

redjohn456 said:


> I would beg to differ, with respect to A5 sounding too dark and compressed. In fact, I find that when used with my various sources it tends to widen the soundstage and invaraibly sounds more transparent than the built in amplifiers in my gears. When paired with my best sources it sounds immense.
> 
> The A5 is not "bright", but that should not be conflated with being dark in my opinion. It is neutral and transparent, with perhaps a smidge of airyness up top. Too many gears add a certain flavor, for example treble forwardness and make claims of being more detailed. Frankly, FiiO tuned the A5 right. It adds NO flavor of its own, but rather let the DAC speak for itself.
> 
> Also, you will notice that most manufacturers (teh ones that know better) do not directly enter debates about sound qualities unless it pertains to a defect or an issue that they can help with. Cheers.



 


Fair enough, we can disagree on subjective sound. What sounds bright to one person will sound dark or neutral to someone else. I'm going to exaggerate here for effect, but the A5 was rolled off enough that some voices sounded, to me, more like AM radio than hi fi. It wasn't even close. 
Glad you like yours.


----------



## Erik_C

audio123 said:


> it sounds slick in the upper register. decent width of soundstage.
> what is your source and interconnect used?



 


Rockboxed iRiver, line out via Cardas cable direct to the A5, then onto Ety ER4Ss. It ain't my gear, or my ears that are the weak link.


----------



## Dobrescu George

redjohn456 said:


> I would beg to differ, with respect to A5 sounding too dark and compressed. In fact, I find that when used with my various sources it tends to widen the soundstage and invaraibly sounds more transparent than the built in amplifiers in my gears. When paired with my best sources it sounds immense.
> 
> The A5 is not "bright", but that should not be conflated with being dark in my opinion. It is neutral and transparent, with perhaps a smidge of airyness up top. Too many gears add a certain flavor, for example treble forwardness and make claims of being more detailed. Frankly, FiiO tuned the A5 right. It adds NO flavor of its own, but rather let the DAC speak for itself.
> 
> Also, you will notice that most manufacturers (teh ones that know better) do not directly enter debates about sound qualities unless it pertains to a defect or an issue that they can help with. Cheers.


 
  
 This confirms to how E12A felt with X5 for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For some people, a bright signature feels like it has more soundstage and it's clearer with a more hifi sound. 
  
 There are many reasons why this happens, and it heavily depends on prefered signature and headphones / IEMs used.


----------



## Wesbound

Any one using Fiio A5 with ipod touch 5g?


----------



## audio123

erik_c said:


> audio123 said:
> 
> 
> > it sounds slick in the upper register. decent width of soundstage.
> ...


 

 it is your source and interconnect.
 cardas cable makes the sound dark.
 iriver makes the sound compressed.
 try with a better source and silver material interconnect


----------



## Lohb

erik_c said:


> redjohn456 said:
> 
> 
> > I would beg to differ, with respect to A5 sounding too dark and compressed. In fact, I find that when used with my various sources it tends to widen the soundstage and invaraibly sounds more transparent than the built in amplifiers in my gears. When paired with my best sources it sounds immense.
> ...


 

 Sounds like the 3.5" interconnect cable issue. I had an over-crimped/clamped under the barrel 3.5" to 3.5" that caused those sound issues.


----------



## ceemsc

audio123 said:


> it is your source and interconnect.
> cardas cable makes the sound dark.
> iriver makes the sound compressed.
> try with a better source and silver material interconnect




Assuming the Cardas interconnect used is the $20 basic 3.5mm to 3.5mm... I would not expect there to be issues with higher cost/spec model.

Erik_C have you performed a sine wave sweep from 20hz to 20khz to ensure all audible frequencies are heard at the "same level" (Fletcher-Munson curves non-withstanding)

I will have to perform the same exercise if & when I upgrade my E12 to the A5.

It may be worth pasting or providing your RockBox running config to see if there any suggestions to try...


----------



## Erik_C

audio123 said:


> it is your source and interconnect.
> cardas cable makes the sound dark.
> iriver makes the sound compressed.
> try with a better source and silver material interconnect



 


Wrong and wrong. This is not my first amp. This is my first amp with sound quality issues.


----------



## Erik_C

ceemsc said:


> Assuming the Cardas interconnect used is the $20 basic 3.5mm to 3.5mm... I would not expect there to be issues with higher cost/spec model.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I appreciate the advice. No, I didn't run sine waves through the system to see what's up. What I did do was listen to everything with the A5 in the loop, without it, and with my old Xin amp in the loop. Then I did all the same, but running things through my home hifi system. (Focal Utopias, Anthem Statement, 18" Velodyne.) The results were the same: the A5 is dark and compresses the soundstage to a significant -- and unacceptable -- amount. It's not my gear. It's not my ears. 

Some people are responding like they're personally offended, or that they're shareholders in FiiO and I'm trying to hurt their bottom line as a result. That's not the case. If you like the A5, that's fine. But it should give people pause that at least a few of us here have found the A5 to be no so great. Could it be that I got a bad sample? Maybe. Or maybe not. All I know is the A5 is not for me for the reasons I've articulated.


----------



## Light - Man

erik_c said:


> ceemsc said:
> 
> 
> > Assuming the Cardas interconnect used is the $20 basic 3.5mm to 3.5mm... I would not expect there to be issues with higher cost/spec model.
> ...


 
  
 Erik, I think that *ceemsc *was making light hearted comments, tongue in cheek sort of stuff.
  
 I find that my AP100 sounds better without the A5 and I am using Fiio OCC Copper interconnects (and the Chord Mojo just to try a different source).
  
 I pay for all my stuff and I have to justify why I keep any new gear that I buy as I don't want any stuff that I will not use, cluttering up my wife's home. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 At the moment I also can't recommend the A5 unless you have no choice but to use an amp for high impedance head gear but I would be looking elsewhere.
  
 BTW, I think that the Fiio amps are very well made & finished with good ergonomics, I just wish they sounded better.


----------



## ceemsc

light - man said:


> Erik, I think that *ceemsc *was making light hearted comments, tongue in cheek sort of stuff.




Sadly no, I am quite serious...

As each audio component adds its own frequency response to the chain, I have to re- EQ my entire setup otherwise it makes my tinnitus worse...


----------



## Light - Man

ceemsc said:


> Sadly no, I am quite serious...
> 
> As each audio component adds its own frequency response to the chain, I have to re- EQ my entire setup otherwise *it makes my tinnitus worse*...


 
 Sorry to hear that, I keep well away from EQ's
  
 If you wish for good vocals with a rolled off top end - maybe check out the E12A.


----------



## SalfordBoys

Glad I didn't go for the A5, as I'm not seeing many "you have to buy this" kinda hype.

The E12a/x5ii is such a fantastic combo that I'm gonna stick.


----------



## Dobrescu George

What problems were presented? 
  
 For the top end to be slightly (more or less) rolled off and smooth or are there other problems?
  
 A5 has also reached Romania recently and I'm curious what to look into when testing one.


----------



## audio123

erik_c said:


> audio123 said:
> 
> 
> > it is your source and interconnect.
> ...


 

 what are the amps u used before?


----------



## HotIce

This is the FR of the E12 (the blue ones refers to the bass boost).
 I do not expect the A5 one (the direct, not bass boosted ones at least) to be much different.
 See? Flat as a pool table. If you think you can hear 0.1dB differences in a 90..100dB listening session, think again.
  

 Now lets look at a typical headphone FR (HD 650). Notice the scale on the Y axis.
  
  

 The combined FR is hence the combination of an almost constant FR function, with an FR function which looks like a rollercoaster.
 Which one do you think is going to influence more the final sound?


----------



## RedJohn456

One feature I don't like about the A5 is the bass boost - sounds too muddy and incoherent. Granted, at this price range it may be a bit much to expect something like the bass boost on the iDSD Micro but the bass boost is bad enough that I never use it. I wish they had added crossfade instead that would have been more useful and it reduces ear fatigue. My 2 cents. I wish the battery lasted longer and it takes a bit of time to have it up and running again. Sucks because it means I am gonna miss the sound of it while it charges LOL. 
  
 Maybe I am just a pleb, but I haven't heard the earlier E12 iterations, but the A5 has sufficiently impressed me to give it a solid recommendation.
  
 I do have a high end 'transportable' amp, ie the Venture Electronics RA 2.0 (best solid state amp I have heard in a long time) and while the FiiO A5 is no where close to that, what it offers in this smaller portable package is sufficient enough that I now use it to power my HD600 all the time as I hear no short comings. Is it perfect? Not really, it has a few things it can improve on (will touch upon this in my review) but by and large it offers a very compelling package at a friendly price that is versatile enough to splendidly drive everything from my most sensitive IEMs to my HD600. What else can you really ask for, specially considering the price point?
  
 Again I don't find it rolled off, just not very bright or forward - there is a distinction to be made here. I don't people thinking its akin to dark chocolate because it is anything but!


----------



## Erik_C

hotice said:


> This is the FR of the E12 (the blue ones refers to the bass boost).
> 
> 
> I do not expect the A5 one (the direct, not bass boosted ones at least) to be much different.
> ...



 


I'm not going to be able to get into all that, but I found that a 2db treble boost via the Rockbox option menu on my DAP brought the treble back to where it sounded like I'm used to, based on hearing live music all the time, from my previous Xin amp with 627 opamps, and from my home system. 

And with that, I'm out. I've said my bit. You can either agree or disagree. It's subjective, so we're all right and we're all wrong.


----------



## Dobrescu George

erik_c said:


> hotice said:
> 
> 
> > This is the FR of the E12 (the blue ones refers to the bass boost).
> ...


 
  
 Most of my headphones ask for a bump of 8 DB in treble to sound natural, with a neutral and flat source


----------



## ceemsc

dobrescu george said:


> Most of my headphones ask for a bump of 8 DB in treble to sound natural, with a neutral and flat source




FYI, I currently EQ boost @16khz +2dB for the Denon AH-D600 & +5dB for the Sennheiser HD700 using the FiiO E12.

 However as previously mentioned that is more to correct the headphones frequency response rather than the amp assuming neither the E12 or A5 roll-off at those frequencies...


----------



## Dobrescu George

ceemsc said:


> FYI, I currently EQ boost @16khz +2dB for the Denon AH-D600 & +5dB for the Sennheiser HD700 using the FiiO E12.
> 
> However as previously mentioned that is more to correct the headphones frequency response rather than the amp assuming neither the E12 or A5 roll-off at those frequencies...


 
  
  
 Most headphones aren't flat, and we will need to use EQ with every headphone out there more or less. 
  
 Only headphone so far that works without is ie800... Brilliant one.


----------



## fish1050

dobrescu george said:


> Most headphones aren't flat, and we will need to use EQ with every headphone out there more or less.
> 
> Only headphone so far that works without is ie800... Brilliant one


 
 Headphones shouldn't be flat as they need to compensate for the fact that recordings are mastered for speaker playback.  Headphones need to be designed to compensate for this.  Flat sounding headphones like the KEF 500's sounded dead and lifeless to me.  I use my B&W P5 S2's without eq and they sound amazing to me.  I find trying to eq them deadens the sound.  
  
 The same can be said for my AKG K240's and AKG K451's which I never eq.  I trust the headphone designers to know more about sound quality than I do.  I buy my DAP and headphones and when necessary portable amp as a set to make sure I get the best combination possible.


----------



## Dobrescu George

fish1050 said:


> Headphones shouldn't be flat as they need to compensate for the fact that recordings are mastered for speaker playback.  Headphones need to be designed to compensate for this.  Flat sounding headphones like the KEF 500's sounded dead and lifeless to me.  I use my B&W P5 S2's without eq and they sound amazing to me.  I find trying to eq them deadens the sound.
> 
> The same can be said for my AKG K240's and AKG K451's which I never eq.  I trust the headphone designers to know more about sound quality than I do.  I buy my DAP and headphones and when necessary portable amp as a set to make sure I get the best combination possible.


 
  
 No headphone designer will ever know more about your tastes and preferences than you do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Tried those KEF, they were nowhere near neutral, waaaay not enough bass and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay not enough treble. They were mid centric with a dry sound (which is good), but felt rolled off at both ends. 
  
 As for the other thing, it depends on the album, some of them are mastered for speakers and some for headphones, using headphones. Depends on who the master is and how he works. Music is listened in 70% to headphones nowadays (arguably), so let's assume that some studios use headphones to master.
  
 But yeah, headphones should have more bass and more treble than flat, and they should have some tonality things and acoustic properties to allow them to sound good. The correct way for me to phrase it would have been that no headphones so far besides ie800 actually fit with my tastes without heavy EQ. I admit that I don't EQ based on what would be neutral or natural but based on what the ear feels the best (which is after all, the best)


----------



## Vergil

Thank God I haven't listened to you guys and upgraded from the E12A. Here's my short comparison between the E12A and The A5 after 2 days of use:
  
Mini Review Equipment: FiiO X5II → FiiO L16 → FiiO A5 → Beyerdynamic T90
  
Highs The E12A was a bit rolled off which helped with my T90s' piercing treble. The A5 brought back some of the sharpness but without the unpleasant piercing feel to it. So it's sharper, brighter with better detail retrieval, but still under control. Albeit not a day and night difference, it's a noticeable improvement.
  
Mids About the same quality, however the A5 has a little more base and treble so there's less focus on mids now. I wouldn't say the mids are recessed, it's just that they don't stand out either.
  
Lows Given the size and price range I wasn't expecting this, but damn, this thing is *powerful*. I'm not only talking about the lows here, the whole thing just feels more robust and solid.
  
General Similar soundstage, not enough listening to tell the difference. The A5 is lush and transparent, the E12A in comparison sounds more grainy. The bass boost on the new FiiO feels more bloated but that might be because it already has more body. The E12A sounds better with the T90s on high gain while the A5 sounds better on low gain (though I need more listening to evaluate on this, so take this with a pinch of salt). On most tracks the A5 sounds noticeable cleaner and with some tracks the resolution seems to be higher (might have to do with the treble).
  Conclusion Overall it's an obvious upgrade from the E12A and I'm happy I made the decision. However I understand that you need to get the synergy right in order to appreciate the sound quality of the A5. I wouldn't be surprised if - for example - with a warm, laid back setup it sounded really off. The "compressed soundstage" criticism is something I do not understand. The E12A was one of the best amps for the price and in my opinion the A5 is the same, but better (and even cheaper). If you get the synergy right, there's no way you spent your money on the wrong product.


----------



## Dobrescu George

vergil said:


> Thank God I haven't listened to you guys and upgraded from the E12A. Here's my short comparison between the E12A and The A5 after 2 days of use:
> 
> Mini Review Equipment: FiiO X5II → FiiO L16 → FiiO A5 → Beyerdynamic T90
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 This is exactly how it was supposed to sound as an upgrade from E12A 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now for the bad side, some people want a bright setup, you see, that smooth top end won't cut it. 
  
 As for the soundstage, there are two types of people: Those who want an airy one with lots of holographic effects, and those who want a dark soundstage that only lets the sound come true. A5 and E12A have a black background which in return will make the soundstage very large, but not airy at all, which based on ear shape and psychoacoustics will make the sound feel compressed. It should give a HD800 type of soundstage flavor to headphones, if this makes sense


----------



## Light - Man

Quote:Originally Posted by *Vergil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
   *Thank God I haven't listened to you guys* and upgraded from the E12A. Here's my short comparison between the E12A and The A5 after 2 days of use:
  
Mini Review Equipment: FiiO X5II → FiiO L16 → FiiO A5 → Beyerdynamic T90
  
Highs The E12A was a bit rolled off which helped with my *T90s' piercing treble*. The A5 brought back some of the sharpness but without the unpleasant piercing feel to it. So it's sharper, brighter with better detail retrieval, but still under control. Albeit not a day and night difference, it's a noticeable improvement.
  

 _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
  
 No offence taken Bro, many of us won't be listening to you either! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW, I am not a fan of the Fiio L16 cable as I find it a bit bright and thins out the sound (IMO) - I prefer the older Fiio L2 (straight) which I still have and the Fiio L8 (angled)
  
 I am surprised that the X5II on its own is not enough to drive the T90.
  
 I am able to drive the Beyer T1 Gen 2 with my Hidizs AP100.
  
 I agree that pairings makes a big difference to our perception of SQ - but at the moment I will keep well away from external amps and stick with a DAP and suitable head gear.


----------



## blackmondy

dobrescu george said:


> E12 and not E12A?...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




To me the E12 sounds dark and muddy.


----------



## Erik_C

vergil said:


> Thank God I haven't listened to you guys and upgraded from the E12A. Here's my short comparison between the E12A and The A5 after 2 days of use:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Interesting findings. Who else with T90s loves the A5? And who else with ER4Ss doesn't love it so much?


----------



## Brooko

My review of the A5 - http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amplifier/reviews/17530.
  
 For the price - its a bargain.


----------



## Badsam

I'm currently using a Fiio L9 connected to a Fiio A5 which is connected to my decade old iPod video 5th generation and outputting to some Sennheiser HD650's. Using high gain with bass boost turned on.

I bought the headphones and the amp a week ago after probably a 7 year break from this site. Heard the E12 was a good cheap amp and the E12a was an improvement but designed for IEM's mainly - the A5 is apparently both amps combined into one.

Can't say if this is regarded as a good setup or not, but it definitely sounds better than when I used a Fiio L9 connected to a Fiio A3, connected to the same 5th gen iPod and playing out of Sennheiser HD600's a few years back.


----------



## FiiO

brooko said:


> My review of the A5 - http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amplifier/reviews/17530.
> 
> For the price - its a bargain.


 
 Dear Brooko
 Thank you for sharing with us.


----------



## fish1050

dobrescu george said:


> No headphone designer will ever know more about your tastes and preferences than you do
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have to disagree with you on the KEF's as I owned them for a couple of weeks before returning them.  The lack of bass was because they have a flat response (no bass emphasis) and the same can be said for the treble.  Yes they were rolled off but the frequencies that were present were quite flat.  As for needing to eq to match tastes as I said I prefer to match headphones and DAP as a pair to make sure they meet my taste prior to purchase without needing equeing.  
  
 I use to sell very high end audio products and never sold an equalizer as it ruined the purity of the sound.  The goal was always to eliminate anything extra from the signal path to get the purist sound and I have always followed that philosophy.  Living in Canada my access to DAP's is somewhat limited but I can audition most brands of headphones and do to get the best match.


----------



## NonXtreme

Hi I'm planning to buy and use A5 amp mostly with E10K dac(line out) and most of the time with my ATH E40 IEM which is a bit sensitive IEM.
 So there're two things that worry me and I wanna ask from you guy.
  
 First is the channel imbalance at low volume knob. How bad is it?
  
 Second is hiss/noise floor/hum. Honestly on E10K with headphone out it's good enough and there's no noticeable hum. But on my dragonfly 1.2, the hum is quite noticeable.
 So how much is the noise on A5 with sensitive IEM? Is it a better than E10K? This worry me a lot since this amp is quite powerful.


----------



## Dobrescu George

fish1050 said:


> I have to disagree with you on the KEF's as I owned them for a couple of weeks before returning them.  The lack of bass was because they have a flat response (no bass emphasis) and the same can be said for the treble.  Yes they were rolled off but the frequencies that were present were quite flat.  As for needing to eq to match tastes as I said I prefer to match headphones and DAP as a pair to make sure they meet my taste prior to purchase without needing equeing.
> 
> I use to sell very high end audio products and never sold an equalizer as it ruined the purity of the sound.  The goal was always to eliminate anything extra from the signal path to get the purist sound and I have always followed that philosophy.  Living in Canada my access to DAP's is somewhat limited but I can audition most brands of headphones and do to get the best match.


 
  
 Interesting! 
  
 Well, to use no EQ at all, I can only say that ie800 works this way combined with pretty much any source. Laptopy, DAP, even phone, ie800 never needs an EQ. Every other headphone does to comply with me tastes. 
  
 But yeah, it would be cool to not add distortion in the signal path, but why ever EQ with a hardware EQ when there is really high quality processing available on the software side?


----------



## kino lau

I was the first (posted) person on the board to get the E12A in my hands, and I was pretty happy with it. The volume control was the issue though. It's not fine grained enough to be able to actually enjoy the amp to its fullest potential. Fiio would have been wise to integrate a 10 turn pot into the A5 since the volume control has been one of the only complaints that owners had. I never used the E12A with the volume setting past the 11:00 setting. 
 I found this thread purely by accident, and used the Search function to see what's been done to modify the volume control. Am I correct in understanding that the only thing that changed is that the knob is slippery? I don't use my E12A at all anymore, but I would have been interested in picking up an evolved twin.


----------



## ceemsc

fish1050 said:


> ...
> As for needing to eq to match tastes as I said I prefer to match headphones and DAP as a pair to make sure they meet my taste prior to purchase without needing equeing.
> ...
> Living in Canada my access to DAP's is somewhat limited but I can audition most brands of headphones and do to get the best match.




So far I've never auditioned headphones/Amps/DACS/DAP & bought them online based on the tech specs or reviews.
 Subjectively I would have rejected them out of the box so I take time to tune/customise them just so.... the same will be true of the A5.


----------



## fish1050

dobrescu george said:


> Interesting!
> 
> Well, to use no EQ at all, I can only say that ie800 works this way combined with pretty much any source. Laptopy, DAP, even phone, ie800 never needs an EQ. Every other headphone does to comply with me tastes.
> 
> But yeah, it would be cool to not add distortion in the signal path, but why ever EQ with a hardware EQ when there is really high quality processing available on the software side?


 
 Actually it has been shown that software eq adds more distortion than hardware eq.  
  
 If you need to eq always best to opt for a hardware solution if you can.  The 3 position eq switch on the Fiio E11 was kind of nice.  I was using it with my old Cowon D2 and a pair of 20 year old Koss Portapro headphones for my first portable setup.  They still manufacturer the Koss Portapro headphones with the exact same design today.  They were the first real portable headphones to become popular and still sound really good.  The do however lack low end and I used the E11 eq switch to compensate.  I found all the software eq options on the D2 added some interference and the hardware eq on the E11 was much cleaner.  
  
 Now that I am more invested in having a high quality portable setup I am back to being a purist and avoiding equing all together.


----------



## fish1050

kino lau said:


> I was the first (posted) person on the board to get the E12A in my hands, and I was pretty happy with it. The volume control was the issue though. It's not fine grained enough to be able to actually enjoy the amp to its fullest potential. Fiio would have been wise to integrate a 10 turn pot into the A5 since the volume control has been one of the only complaints that owners had. I never used the E12A with the volume setting past the 11:00 setting.
> I found this thread purely by accident, and used the Search function to see what's been done to modify the volume control. Am I correct in understanding that the only thing that changed is that the knob is slippery? I don't use my E12A at all anymore, but I would have been interested in picking up an evolved twin.


 
 Actually I think if I was in the market for a portable amp I would take the E12A over the A5.  They both use the Muse02 and from what I understand have a very similar sound signature.  But the power of the A5 is overkill for me and going from 20 hours battery life on the E12A to 12 hours on the A5 is a lot of battery life to give up especially with my A17 at around 30 hours.  I have never owned a pair of headphones that would need the amount of power the A5 has available.  The A5 is actually selling for a lower price on amazon.ca than the E12A.  Even with price drop on the E12A it is still priced higher than the A5.


----------



## fish1050

ceemsc said:


> So far I've never auditioned headphones/Amps/DACS/DAP & bought them online based on the tech specs or reviews.
> Subjectively I would have rejected them out of the box so I take time to tune/customise them just so.... the same will be true of the A5.


 
 Whatever works,
  
*B*ut I need to not only know how the headphones will sound but also how comfortable they will be to wear.  I have a large head and big ears so it can be a challenge to find comfortable headphones.  I hate iem's so it is typically on-ear headphones for me for portable use.
  
 I typically narrow my choices by looking at specs and online reviews.  I try to narrow them down to 5 or 6 pairs and then I audition them to make the best choice.  I actually listened to 10 different headphones before settling on my B&W P5 S2's.


----------



## Dobrescu George

fish1050 said:


> Actually it has been shown that software eq adds more distortion than hardware eq.
> 
> If you need to eq always best to opt for a hardware solution if you can.  The 3 position eq switch on the Fiio E11 was kind of nice.  I was using it with my old Cowon D2 and a pair of 20 year old Koss Portapro headphones for my first portable setup.  They still manufacturer the Koss Portapro headphones with the exact same design today.  They were the first real portable headphones to become popular and still sound really good.  The do however lack low end and I used the E11 eq switch to compensate.  I found all the software eq options on the D2 added some interference and the hardware eq on the E11 was much cleaner.
> 
> Now that I am more invested in having a high quality portable setup I am back to being a purist and avoiding equing all together.


 
  
 Actualy software EQ can get you much better if done in 24bit than in 16, avoiding data loss, but hey, I've been using Fiio X5 series for... ome good years now, and I haven't noticed any degradation in sound using their EQ, so whatever they're doing, they're doing it well.


----------



## kino lau

fish1050 said:


> Actually I think if I was in the market for a portable amp I would take the E12A over the A5.  They both use the Muse02 and from what I understand have a very similar sound signature.  But the power of the A5 is overkill for me and going from 20 hours battery life on the E12A to 12 hours on the A5 is a lot of battery life to give up especially with my A17 at around 30 hours.  I have never owned a pair of headphones that would need the amount of power the A5 has available.  The A5 is actually selling for a lower price on amazon.ca than the E12A.  Even with price drop on the E12A it is still priced higher than the A5.


 
 Yeah the way I see it without even looking at prices, is that if I can't use more than a 3rd of the power with the E12A which is designed for IEM use...what's the point of an amp with More Power? Without changing the volume control on the A5, it seems that Fiio completely missed the mark. *Just my opinion...*


----------



## fish1050

dobrescu george said:


> Actualy software EQ can get you much better if done in 24bit than in 16, avoiding data loss, but hey, I've been using Fiio X5 series for... ome good years now, and I haven't noticed any degradation in sound using their EQ, so whatever they're doing, they're doing it well.


 
 I am sure that software eq has gotten better over the years. But having had a chance to hear the difference on really high end gear just knowing hardware eq is better plays tricks with your head and being a purist if I have to eq then I want the best even if I can't hear it on every track.  I still listen to mostly 16 bit flac even though I really can't hear a difference between flac and 320 kbps mp3's for most tracks.  Simply know that mp3 is a compressed format makes me avoid it if all possible.  
  
 Once you hear truly amazing audio it is hard to compromise with lower quality options


----------



## Light - Man

kino lau said:


> Yeah the way I see it without even looking at prices, is that if I can't use more than a 3rd of the power with the E12A which is designed for IEM use...what's the point of an amp with More Power? Without changing the volume control on the A5, it seems that Fiio completely missed the mark. *Just my opinion...*


 
  
 It seems that the A5 is not a replacement for the 12A and those who already have the 12A may be wasting their money as well as being disappointed with the A5 - as the A5 may improve in some areas but lose in others over the E12A.
  
 I get the impression that Fiio may have tuned the A5 to match the X5ii DAP (as I do not have the X5ii to pair with it).
  
 I have tried the X3ii with the A5 and it is decent but not enough for the hassle or to my liking.
  
 The battery in the 12A also has a much better capacity over the A5 (as I have said before but someone contradicted me and said they were the same).
  
 My advice is to buy it from somewhere with a good returns policy - so that you can return it if it is not to your taste. (like I will do).


----------



## Dobrescu George

fish1050 said:


> I am sure that software eq has gotten better over the years. But having had a chance to hear the difference on really high end gear just knowing hardware eq is better plays tricks with your head and being a purist if I have to eq then I want the best even if I can't hear it on every track.  I still listen to mostly 16 bit flac even though I really can't hear a difference between flac and 320 kbps mp3's for most tracks.  Simply know that mp3 is a compressed format makes me avoid it if all possible.
> 
> Once you hear truly amazing audio it is hard to compromise with lower quality options


 
  
 I can hear mp3 320 vs FLAC... Feels bad man.
  
 Half of my favorite music is only on youtube as videos with AAC 256 compression and the quality is really not the best, but I love those songs... Cannot listen to them in FLAC because they are in Japanese and I can only read Eng. 
  
 About 320 MP3 vs Flac, if you canno hear a difference, don't bother with FLAC, it's not worth it. Only if you feel it and only if it's big enoough should you bbother with FLAC. Some headphones just aren't resolving enough, or have the treble too rolled off.


----------



## Sonic Defender

fish1050 said:


> Actually it has been shown that software eq adds more distortion than hardware eq.


 
 Having more distortion may be irrelevant if it is inaudible anyway. I think that very modest boosts or cuts (which is all anybody should be doing anyway) really shouldn't result in significant rises in distortion. If I boost, say for bass with an open back headphone, I may boost three frequencies in a smooth curve and never boost any one frequency more than 2db. I also of course use software parametric EQ's that have a preamp or gain trim option so I can drop the amplitude of the signal down to compensate for any boost. But, I do agree, unless you need to, avoiding any changes is your best bet to preserve the music.


----------



## ceemsc

Currently selling @ 10% off in popular online vendors for the next 13 hours & if you search online, you can get a further 10% off vouchers with free UK shipping for Advanced MP3 Players...


----------



## fish1050

sonic defender said:


> Having more distortion may be irrelevant if it is inaudible anyway. I think that very modest boosts or cuts (which is all anybody should be doing anyway) really shouldn't result in significant rises in distortion. If I boost, say for bass with an open back headphone, I may boost three frequencies in a smooth curve and never boost any one frequency more than 2db. I also of course use software parametric EQ's that have a preamp or gain trim option so I can drop the amplitude of the signal down to compensate for any boost. But, I do agree, unless you need to, avoiding any changes is your best bet to preserve the music.


 
 Still anything added into the signal path will affect the purity of the sound.  As a purist I want to keep it clean whether the distortion is audible on all tracks.  I prefer a setup to avoid eq alteration, if it doesn't matter to you then go for it.
  
 The thing I like most about being a music and audio equipment hobbyist is auditioning new equipment so why not match equipment instead of using an eq.


----------



## snellemin

fish1050 said:


> Still anything added into the signal path will affect the purity of the sound.  As a purist I want to keep it clean whether the distortion is audible on all tracks.  I prefer a setup to avoid eq alteration, if it doesn't matter to you then go for it.
> 
> The thing I like most about being a music and audio equipment hobbyist is auditioning new equipment so why not match equipment instead of using an eq.


 
 Using an EQ is way cheaper than buying equipment trying to match your personal taste in sound, through trial and error.


----------



## ceemsc

snellemin said:


> Using an EQ is way cheaper than buying equipment trying to match your personal taste in sound, through trial and error.




+1

It enables you to get value for money by pushing the envelope on the large investment of engineering design, R&D, capability, testing + trials etc. whilst ironing out any flaws or pet-hates.

That's what the US Navy did as mentioned in a certain movie which celebrates its thirtieth anniversary this year...


----------



## HisDudeness

ceemsc said:


> Currently selling @ 10% off in popular online vendors for the next 13 hours & if you search online, you can get a further 10% off vouchers with free UK shipping for Advanced MP3 Players...




Thanks,bought an A5 from Advanced MP3 for £80.10 after discounts plus £3.56% cashback from Topcashback.

Was gonna wait for the black version to be released to match my X5 but the deal was too good to miss

I appreciate the heads up


----------



## Townyj

Holy smokes... Ive had a revelation, was using my XDuoo X3 into the A5, just swapped to my DF Black and tried via my desktop computer. Geezus! Much more fuller sound! High gain and 1/4 on the dial is quite loud, was around 1/2 with the X3. The A5 definitely has the balls to make the HD600's sing!


----------



## audio123

brooko said:


> My review of the A5 - http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amplifier/reviews/17530.
> 
> For the price - its a bargain.


fantastic review. This amp is good


----------



## fish1050

snellemin said:


> Using an EQ is way cheaper than buying equipment trying to match your personal taste in sound, through trial and error.


 
 How do you figure that?  Just because I am auditioning headphones instead of just ordering online and equing doesn't mean I will spend more.  I set a budget and choose headphones that are in my price range that meet my needs for sound quality and comfort.  Just because I am buying headphones off the internet unheard doesn't mean I will buy cheaper models.
  
 Chances are based on reviews both personal and professional that I would still have purchased the same B&W P5 S2's.  The only difference is by auditioning them I was sure I would like them vs buying unheard and hoping so.  Also when you buy retail you can haggle for a better price.  My P5 S2's were selling for $299.00 in Toronto and I talked the salesman down to $269.00.  My budget was $300.00.  The store also covers the full 2 year warranty so if I need any replacement parts the store will get them for me.
  
 Not all DAP's offer enough eq frequency adjustments to adjust the sound to your needs.  For example my A17 eq bands drop from 1 KHZ to 40 HZ.  Most of the headphones designed for portable use now are bass emphasized which I don't like and why I ruled out most pairs.  There is no way for me to adjust the lower bass frequencies to my liking on my A17 if I can only adjust at 40 HZ.   My A17 fits all my needs for battery life, storage capacity, and LDAC bluetooth, UI etc..  By your logic I would have to get a different DAP with greater frequency eq options even though my A17 is perfect for me so I could eq to match headphones.
  
 Sorry, but taking my perfect for me DAP and matching it to the best headphones in my price range via audition makes more sense to me. Buying a DAP and headphones online and hoping I can eq them to match makes no sense to me.


----------



## ceemsc

fish1050 said:


> How do you figure that?  Just because I am auditioning headphones instead of just ordering online and equing doesn't mean I will spend more.  I set a budget and choose headphones that are in my price range that meet my needs for sound quality and comfort.  Just because I am buying headphones off the internet unheard doesn't mean I will buy cheaper models.
> 
> Chances are based on reviews both personal and professional that I would still have purchased the same B&W P5 S2's.  The only difference is by auditioning them I was sure I would like them vs buying unheard and hoping so.  Also when you buy retail you can haggle for a better price.  My P5 S2's were selling for $299.00 in Toronto and I talked the salesman down to $269.00.  My budget was $300.00.  The store also covers the full 2 year warranty so if I need any replacement parts the store will get them for me.
> 
> ...




Yes these are all good reasons to pre-audition before purchasing. The problems are the conditions under such auditions take place including in-store vs. own setup which can skew results including Sales pressure / tactics etc.

Auditioning can be rather hit & miss + you might miss any potential flaws regarding the actual technicalities.

Also the stores are subject to popular sales trends not just availability & will stock what will sell; they have to for survival. So HMV in UK no longer sells DENON head-gear ever since the Music MANIAC line came out as this flopped.

It's not just saving ca$h at the till as I appreciate you have a decent set budget but making sure what you get is value for money. 

Buying online "blind" can have its problems including DOA, potentially no support/returns etc. But those are the downsides as it is a potential gamble.

For the FiiO A5, do you intend to pre-audition? I've purchased based on others reviews, the FiiO brand, specs on the box & so long as the actual kit is not a dud; I intend to get to working to my tastes/practical standpoint ...


----------



## fish1050

ceemsc said:


> Yes these are all good reasons to pre-audition before purchasing. The problems are the conditions under such auditions take place including in-store vs. own setup which can skew results including Sales pressure / tactics etc.
> 
> Auditioning can be rather hit & miss + you might miss any potential flaws regarding the actual technicalities.
> 
> ...


 
 Well I am using my own setup, as I purchase the DAP prior to starting my headphones auditions. I try the DAP for a few days and if it fits my needs I load it with my test music and use it to audition the headphones.  All the specialty audio electronics stores that I buy from have at least a 14 day and some 30 day return policies.  If the DAP isn't to my liking I return it and try another model until I find what I want.   Once I make my final DAP choice and use it to test for my perfect headphone match I am golden. If I happen to find my DAP online from a Canadian retailer for significantly less I can always return the one I bought and repurchase online at the lower price. 
  
 Also just because I audition headphones in the store does not mean I have to buy from the store.  I do my homework, find the best price online including shipping for all the models I am considering.  Use the online price to negotiate a better price with the retailer for the headphones I want. If the retailer will come close to the online price I will buy retail  for the piece of mind of knowing I have a physical location to come to if a problem develops.  As an example, I bought a pair of Sennheiser Urbanites and the first time I used them at home the right earpad popped off and I could not get it back on.  I returned the headphones to the store and in the end bought my B&W P5 S2's after about a 75 minute audition. 
  
 I only audition headphones at specialty electronics retailers of which there are several in Toronto.  They have racks of previously burnt in headphones that I can try out in store for as long as I want.  They also have dedicated listening rooms where you can audition product and they don't pressure and harass you like Best Buy.  Unlike big box type stores specialty electronics retailers will allow you to return headphones and most will give you at least 14  and some 30 days to return the product if you change your mind.  I have been dealing with these same specialty electronics retailers for decades and worked at one for 15 year and I know I can trust them with my business
  
 As for the A5 there are several Fiio dealers in Toronto I can go to to audition it.  But having previously done extensive testing of the E12A and given they A5 is very similar to the E12A other than more power and less battery I find no point.  I have no need for the power of the A5 and would rather have the extra 8 hours of battery life from the E12A should I need an amp at some point.  If I happen to be in a store at some point that sells the A5 I may do an audition just to satisfy my curiosity.
  
 Most people don't realize that you can haggle with retailers including Best Buy to get a better price. Just do your homework before you do and don't trust anything the salespeople tell you.  I find it fun to hang around Best Buy sometimes and listen to the salespeople BS the customers.  Then I warn the customers if I think they are getting fleeced,  Good Times!!


----------



## fish1050

ceemsc said:


> +1
> 
> It enables you to get value for money by pushing the envelope on the large investment of engineering design, R&D, capability, testing + trials etc. whilst ironing out any flaws or pet-hates.
> 
> That's what the US Navy did as mentioned in a certain movie which celebrates its thirtieth anniversary this year...


 
 You guys just don't get it, you don't have to buy the equipment to test it.  Just go to a electronics specialty store that has equipment you can demo in store.  Most like the ones I visit have tonnes of equipment you can try out and dedicated listening rooms to audition the product.  If you are smart about it it won't cost you anymore then buying equipment and then trying to eq it.


----------



## ceemsc

fish1050 said:


> You guys just don't get it, you don't have to buy the equipment to test it.  Just go to a electronics specialty store that has equipment you can demo in store.  Most like the ones I visit have tonnes of equipment you can try out and dedicated listening rooms to audition the product.  If you are smart about it it won't cost you anymore then buying equipment and then trying to eq it.




Headphone Amps must be very specialised as no easy to reach retail store in the UK I can see stocks them apart from Richer Sounds or in London & even then they don't have the full range of what you want to try.

My closest FiiO outlet is actually hifiheadphones but they are more like a warehouse, you have to book auditions & they currently don't stock the A5.

Anyway, I've bought the A5 for a bargain & testing it out... It is definitely cleaner sounding with no hiss even with a noisy USB laptop cable plugged in. The Bass Boost switch is stiffer so won't easily get flicked off. Instead of sticky silicon feet which eventually rub off you get some useful silicon spacers. So all in all. a nice upgrade from the original E12.


----------



## HisDudeness

ceemsc said:


> Headphone Amps must be very specialised as no easy to reach retail store in the UK I can see stocks them apart from Richer Sounds or in London & even then they don't have the full range of what you want to try.
> 
> My closest FiiO outlet is actually hifiheadphones but they are more like a warehouse, you have to book auditions & they currently don't stock the A5.
> 
> Anyway, I've bought the A5 for a bargain & testing it out... It is definitely cleaner sounding with no hiss even with a noisy USB laptop cable plugged in. The Bass Boost switch is stiffer so won't easily get flicked off. Instead of sticky silicon feet which eventually rub off you get some useful silicon spacers. So all in all. a nice upgrade from the original E12.





ceemsc said:


> Headphone Amps must be very specialised as no easy to reach retail store in the UK I can see stocks them apart from Richer Sounds or in London & even then they don't have the full range of what you want to try.
> 
> My closest FiiO outlet is actually hifiheadphones but they are more like a warehouse, you have to book auditions & they currently don't stock the A5.
> 
> Anyway, I've bought the A5 for a bargain & testing it out... It is definitely cleaner sounding with no hiss even with a noisy USB laptop cable plugged in. The Bass Boost switch is stiffer so won't easily get flicked off. Instead of sticky silicon feet which eventually rub off you get some useful silicon spacers. So all in all. a nice upgrade from the original E12.




I suspect you got the A5 bargain on the same deal as me, paid £76.58 in total after discounts, voucher codes and Topcashback at Advanced MP3, a nice saving off their current £109.99 listing. Delivered on a Sunday too.
Was intialilly annoyed as I missed out on a Graham Slee Voyager (I use a GSP Solo Ultra Linear Diamond Edition head amp on my hifi set-up) on Ebay due to bad wifi but the deal I got on the A5 softened the blow

Intial impressions are good, well made and packaged. I am using it with my X5 (first gen) and am driving a pair of AKG K550, I know these are easy to drive but they sound better amped hence the purchase.

The amp seems to let the DAP character shine with no obvious colouration, I don't however care for the bass boost, seems to throw a veil over the sound for me. Overall though it feels like a decent upgrade and has breathed new life into my set-up.


----------



## FiiO

Quote:


ceemsc said:


> Anyway, I've bought the A5 for a bargain & testing it out... It is definitely cleaner sounding with no hiss even with a noisy USB laptop cable plugged in. The Bass Boost switch is stiffer so won't easily get flicked off. Instead of sticky silicon feet which eventually rub off you get some useful silicon spacers. So all in all. a nice upgrade from the original E12.



 Quote:


hisdudeness said:


> Intial impressions are good, well made and packaged. I am using it with my X5 (first gen) and am driving a pair of AKG K550, I know these are easy to drive but they sound better amped hence the purchase.
> 
> The amp seems to let the DAP character shine with no obvious colouration, I don't however care for the bass boost, seems to throw a veil over the sound for me. Overall though it feels like a decent upgrade and has breathed new life into my set-up.


 
 Thank you for sharing the feedback of the A5 to us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hope you can enjoy it.
  
 Best regards


----------



## Silent Xaxal

How is this when paired with the HD650 or HD800S?


----------



## ceemsc

silent xaxal said:


> How is this when paired with the HD650 or HD800S?




I can't speak for those specific models but the bass boost is essential for my HD700... Sounds great in my subjective opinion...


----------



## DGonlag2

I have nothing to compare it to, but the A5 sounds great with my HD650. I'm loving the sound, especially with the bass boost on. 
Gets incredibly loud too.


----------



## Sonic Defender

hisdudeness said:


> Was intialilly annoyed as I missed out on a Graham Slee Voyager


 
 Ouch, that would suck. Graham Slee gear doesn't get much love on head-fi (it is pricey) but I owned a Novo for a time and I couldn't believe just how good it sounded. Sorry for going OT. I'm also a big FiiO fan and waiting for the Q5 as I insist on Bluetooth connectivity so worth the wait, otherwise I would have grabbed the A5.


----------



## HisDudeness

sonic defender said:


> Ouch, that would suck. Graham Slee gear doesn't get much love on head-fi (it is pricey) but I owned a Novo for a time and I couldn't believe just how good it sounded. Sorry for going OT. I'm also a big FiiO fan and waiting for the Q5 as I insist on Bluetooth connectivity so worth the wait, otherwise I would have grabbed the A5.




I love my Graham Slee gear, it may cost a lot but is much better than many fancy 'hifi' brands at many times the price. I mitigate the price issue somewhat by purchasing used gear.

I wouldn't class Fiio and Graham Slee as rivals in audio, different products for different prices. 

Back on topic, having spent a week or so living with the A5 for use on my commute, I am fully sold on it.

As previously mentioned, my Fiio X5 (mk1) is fed into the A5 and I use a pair of AKG K550. The amp just takes the headphones to a new level, resolving micro details much better, I really noticed this on the track 'same mistakes' by The Cooper Temple Clause, which has many subtle sound in the mix which can be easily missed.
I really do feel like this amp has given both my X5 and K550 a major upgrade.

I would never use then on the go due to their open back nature but I will give my K702 a spin next as they really do sound great amped


----------



## Badsam

Should I be using the bass boost on this? With the bass boost off my HD650's sound kind of flat. I mean you can hear bass but you don't -feel- it. Bass boost fixes that problem but I don't know if it's really degrading the quality of the sound or not.


----------



## DGonlag2

Does it really matter? In the end it's about what you prefer. 

I personally like the bast boost on the 650.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

How does this thing stack up to the ifi iDSD Micro/Micro Black Label's amp section?


----------



## Madcat207

Out of curiosity.. anyone know if this model is better shielded than the E12?  I love my E12, right until it is near any cellular device; at that point, i swear i can hear the bits flying out, i pick up so much noise. I like my current player (ironically, an LG v20, which of course being a cell phone, is a total no go with the E12.....), and would happily drop the $130 on this.. if i knew it was actually shielded...


----------



## HotIce

Strange. I used the E12 literally strapped over my iPhone for a while, and no noise was getting in there.
 Maybe different cellular bands.


----------



## Madcat207

hotice said:


> Strange. I used the E12 literally strapped over my iPhone for a while, and no noise was getting in there.
> Maybe different cellular bands.


 
 Could be.  All i know is, any proximity to my V20 renders my e12 useless with so much noise. T-Mobile. 4G.. I know its not my interconnect, because the amp powered on with only the cans attached still picks up the interference.


----------



## Dobrescu George

madcat207 said:


> Could be.  All i know is, any proximity to my V20 renders my e12 useless with so much noise. T-Mobile. 4G.. I know its not my interconnect, because the amp powered on with only the cans attached still picks up the interference.


 
  
 If you're comparing strictly the E12, it might have been more sensitive to interference. X5 was more sensitive than X5ii is.


----------



## Madcat207

dobrescu george said:


> If you're comparing strictly the E12, it might have been more sensitive to interference. X5 was more sensitive than X5ii is.


 

 Cant say this has anything to do with an X5.  This was just my e12 combines with my LG V20.  Even without the aux connection, it would pick up so much EMI, it was completely useless....


----------



## Sonic Defender

madcat207 said:


> Could be.  All i know is, any proximity to my V20 renders my e12 useless with so much noise. T-Mobile. 4G.. I know its not my interconnect, because the amp powered on with only the cans attached still picks up the interference.


 
 How is the V20? I suspect it sounds pretty darn good on it's own. Heck, even my G4 sounds pretty good (albeit not loud enough for my taste).


----------



## Madcat207

sonic defender said:


> How is the V20? I suspect it sounds pretty darn good on it's own. Heck, even my G4 sounds pretty good (albeit not loud enough for my taste).


 
 It is an excellent sounding DAP; frankly one that doesn't get enough credit.  And while the output is good on its own, a strong amp really lets big cans like my LCD-2 sing.


----------



## Sonic Defender

madcat207 said:


> It is an excellent sounding DAP; frankly one that doesn't get enough credit.  And while the output is good on its own, a strong amp really lets big cans like my LCD-2 sing.


 
 Yes, I think phones are serious competitors to dedicated DAPs. If FiiO is following this thread, I suggest they be forward looking and figure out how they can become the audio section designer for audiophile phones. I really believe in the near future that phones will start to become capable of driving a much wider variety of loads and they will need the expertise of companies like FiiO perhaps. That is my hope that rather than be pushed out by phones, companies like FiiO can find a way to partner and embrace the market forces and adapt new revenue streams.
  
 I know there will always be dedicated DAPs for people like us, but imagine how cool it would be to see a phone advertise audio by FiiO rather than featuring beats audio or something like that. I'm babbling mostly, but still, I think it would be interesting at least, and who knows, maybe it will happen? If so I'll get to say I called it first!


----------



## FiiO

FiiO A5-Amplifier that strives for perfection is available in Black: http://www.head-fi.org/t/831379/fiio-a5-amplifier-that-strives-for-perfection-is-available-in-black

Dear Respected Customers,
 
The A5 Titanium was released to the market by October, 2016, which turns to be well accepted by the market and end users. Now we are glad to tell you that we bring one more Black option for you. 
 
To check out for more pictures of A5 Black (*>> Click Here) *and check out for the introduction of A5 (*>> Click Here)*
 
The delivery of A5 Black to our worldwide agents starts today. If you are interested in getting an A5 Black, please kindly check with local agents (*>>Where to Buy*) for its availability soon.
 
*Best regards,
 FiiO Electronics Technology Co., Ltd.*


----------



## Madcat207

sonic defender said:


> *Yes, I think phones are serious competitors to dedicated DAPs*. If FiiO is following this thread, I suggest they be forward looking and figure out how they can become the audio section designer for audiophile phones. I really believe in the near future that phones will start to become capable of driving a much wider variety of loads and they will need the expertise of companies like FiiO perhaps. That is my hope that rather than be pushed out by phones, companies like FiiO can find a way to partner and embrace the market forces and adapt new revenue streams.
> 
> I know there will always be dedicated DAPs for people like us, but imagine how cool it would be to see a phone advertise audio by FiiO rather than featuring beats audio or something like that. I'm babbling mostly, but still, I think it would be interesting at least, and who knows, maybe it will happen? If so I'll get to say I called it first!


 
 I can say that LG and a few others understand that and agree.  Having a phone with a dedicated ESS Saber means that at most i need an amp (and even then, required only to eek out the best performance), and i have the best of both worlds. I need a phone, and will always have one; if i can have one that also does excellent music for the same price.. hell yeah!


----------



## Sonic Defender

madcat207 said:


> I can say that LG and a few others understand that and agree.  Having a phone with a dedicated ESS Saber means that at most i need an amp (and even then, required only to eek out the best performance), and i have the best of both worlds. I need a phone, and will always have one; if i can have one that also does excellent music for the same price.. hell yeah!


 
 For sure we will be at the one device point very soon, if we aren't already there now really. With most headphones designed for mobile use, a phone like the V20 for instance would be quite adequate. I expect (and hope) that DAPs are still always a viable if niche product to satisfy those who demand that last amount of sound quality possible.


----------



## Madcat207

sonic defender said:


> For sure we will be at the one device point very soon, if we aren't already there now really. With most headphones designed for mobile use, a phone like the V20 for instance would be quite adequate. I expect (and hope) that DAPs are still always a viable if niche product to satisfy those who demand that last amount of sound quality possible.


 
 Oh for sure.. i am certainly not saying to get rid of them.  Specalty built products will no doubt eek out that last bit of sonic quality compared to something like my v20, and should be available as a niche product.  More, i am just happy to see makers catch on that high quality audio should be available to, and is being demanded from, the masses, and we are getting much better AIO devices.


----------



## KaHuNaZ

are there any problems with running this amp while charging?


----------



## ceemsc

kahunaz said:


> are there any problems with running this amp while charging?




I do this all the time & all is good...


----------



## yehgermeister

Would you guys recommend this amp for HD650s and IE80? More of a on the go person so I listen to my IE80s most the time, but I'd like something to drive my HD650s at home, which I currently use unamped.


----------



## ceemsc

yehgermeister said:


> Would you guys recommend this amp for HD650s and IE80? More of a on the go person so I listen to my IE80s most the time, but I'd like something to drive my HD650s at home, which I currently use unamped.




I use this to drive my HD700 - I currently don't use IEMs so would need others to comment on whether they need an amp...


----------



## Brooko

Easily drives my HD600 and HD800S.  Will work OK with IEMs - you just won't have a huge amount of room on the pot.


----------



## Voxata

This amp is fantastic for the price. Just wanted to chime in. Sounds great on my HE-560 and X5, feeding my cans enough power to shine on this mobile duo. My old E12 compressed soundstage a little and lacked some detail(though it was still decent for the $)the A5 does not seem to suffer from this on my setup. YMMV, however, this is a keeper for me.


----------



## KaHuNaZ

I am grateful for the bass boost feature on this amp. It really brings my HE400i's to life when listening to certain songs in my collection.


----------



## FiiO

kahunaz said:


> I am grateful for the bass boost feature on this amp. It really brings my HE400i's to life when listening to certain songs in my collection.


 
 Dear KaHuNaZ,
  
 Glad to hear that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Best regards


----------



## Voxata

Fiio, I wish you'd facilitate an exchange of my A5 titanium for a silver one though, gah.


----------



## FiiO

voxata said:


> Fiio, I wish you'd facilitate an exchange of my A5 titanium for a silver one though, gah.


 
 Dear Voxata,
  
 The A5 only have titanium and black version by now, sorry.
  
 Best regards


----------



## audio123

fiio said:


> Dear Voxata,
> 
> The A5 only have titanium and black version by now, sorry.
> 
> Best regards


gold?


----------



## Voxata

fiio said:


> Dear Voxata,
> 
> The A5 only have titanium and black version by now, sorry.
> 
> Best regards




Hah oops I mean I want to trade my titanium for black to match my X5!


----------



## Moscow

Wile my A5 is on the way what you guys would recommend as a DAP for it in a budget $100-$250?
I'd like to have DAP with Bluetooth option to use in a car.


----------



## dc430

moscow said:


> Wile my A5 is on the way what you guys would recommend as a DAP for it in a budget $100-$250?
> I'd like to have DAP with Bluetooth option to use in a car.


 
 Best deal for your budget is the Pioneer XDP-300R, it can be have from Amazon Japan for $250


----------



## Moscow

dc430 said:


> Best deal for your budget is the Pioneer XDP-300R, it can be have from Amazon Japan for $250



Checked Amazon, this DAP is over $300. Guess I missed a chance.


----------



## dc430

moscow said:


> Checked Amazon, this DAP is over $300. Guess I missed a chance.


 
 Pick the one sold by Amazon, should have a 5000 yen discount upon checkout


----------



## harishmirror

Have used the E11K for a while and planning to upgrade to A5. Anyone advice if A5 is a good choice to go with Sony Z5? I am just confused between A5, PHA1A and PHA3


----------



## Voxata

I can only tell you the A5 is a huge upgrade from what you've got. I don't think there is much better out there for the $.


----------



## Light - Man

harishmirror said:


> Have used the E11K for a while and planning to upgrade to A5. Anyone advice if A5 is a good choice to go with Sony Z5? I am just confused between A5, PHA1A and PHA3


 
  
 My advice is to try to avoid amping if possible and get some headphone that suits your music player.
  
 You are better off telling people what gear you already have so they can advise you better.
  
 I am not a fan of the A5 (as I have stated before and will likely say it for the last time).
  
 You could also look at the Topping NX5 amp or Cayin C5 amp.
  
 At the moment I am listening to the Huawei Y6ii smart phone which sounds surprisingly good with my Yamaha HPH-MT220.
  
 The game has moved on recently and I reckon Fiio will have to get new people on board or they will be left behind. *All IMO! *


----------



## Voxata

Why? The A5 is superb for the money, and the sound is much thicker than no amp at all on my cans with aid to a black background, resolve from my X5 with all the details coming through. The best part is the soundstage is not sacrificed. I can also drive IEMs or power hungry cans. Your advice is concerning and biased against Fiio. My portable combo is fantastic, even at driving the HE-560 it punches above its price point. It's no desktop rig but for a portie.. awesome!


----------



## Light - Man

^ It is just my honest opinion - people can take it or leave it - I have no issue with Fiio - I just wish it was better.
  
 I notice on HF that there are fan boys on all the big brand threads hyping stuff that IMO are over hyped including the Chord Mojo.
  
 I prefer the E12A but that is also not perfect but I do understand that people who have hard to drive H/phones may need an amp.
  
 No doubt that the Fiio amps are well made and well priced and the Fiio rep is very polite.


----------



## ceemsc

light - man said:


> My advice is to try to avoid amping if possible and get _some_ headphone that suits your music player.




I take it you mean avoiding External amping rather than amping in general as all audio signals need amping to hear them even it is by the amp module on the source / DAP. 

Also something needs to provide the voltage & current to the headphone drivers be it onboard or separate. How much energy does that drain overall? Surely expecting the source to handle every part of the audio chain is quite a demand on a singular 2000 mAh battery assuming it is also not dealing with phone/wi-fi functions as well...

Are there DAPs/sources out there that provide dedicated high-end amping to drive anything? From what I've seen, the focus & headline was on the premium DAC and only able to adequately drive sub-100 ohm impedance headphones accurately; restricting headphone choices.

The point I'm making is that external amps provide practical advantages...


----------



## Voxata

I've no reason to hype Fiio as a "fanboy". I praise this amp for its capabilities and because it is a move forward for Fiio compared to their previous products. Before owning this combo I hadn't looked to them since the original E11 and an E09K I stumbled across. Fiio changing my mind deserves a nod for sure. 

Also it is fairly common that DAPs usually have stronger DAC than amp sections so added amps are usually of benefit. To me the addition of the amp was a boost in SQ and well over the X5 itself and also the E12 it replaced that came with my stack (only bought the two because of a great deal, glad I took the dive). I'm all about criticism of a product, but outright meritless bashing of a great product deserves a response so that readers don't make assumptions based on such.


----------



## TheoS53

voxata said:


> I've no reason to hype Fiio as a "fanboy". I praise this amp for its capabilities and because it is a move forward for Fiio compared to their previous products. Before owning this combo I hadn't looked to them since the original E11 and an E09K I stumbled across. Fiio changing my mind deserves a nod for sure.
> 
> Also it is fairly common that DAPs usually have stronger DAC than amp sections so added amps are usually of benefit. To me the addition of the amp was a boost in SQ and well over the X5 itself and also the E12 it replaced that came with my stack (only bought the two because of a great deal, glad I took the dive). I'm all about criticism of a product, but outright meritless bashing of a great product deserves a response so that readers don't make assumptions based on such.


 
 Agreed, however I personally also feel we have somewhat of a responsibility to criticize a bit more than praise products. At the end of the day, no company is doing us a favour by "allowing" us to buy their products. They need us, they depend on people buying their products. By taking their products, they expect a payment in return (the basic concept of a sale), and I feel that at any point, if something is expected in return, you have every right to scrutinize that product whichever way you see fit. 

 But I agree, sometimes people do tend to go a little overboard with the bashing. It's not entirely their fault though, because if the product wasn't flawed, there'd be no reason for them to criticize it. I feel it's when their concerns and criticisms aren't taken into account by the manufacturer for their future products, and constantly repeating the same mistakes, that the consumer's frustration boils over to a point where it may appear like needless, over-the-top bashing


----------



## brugis

Any one try a Ibasso DX90+Fiio A5+Audio tehnica MSR7?


----------



## Hijodelbrx

Compared to the E12/E12A, the A5 hasn't generated anywhere near the 'buzz' of it's predecessor's. Leaves me wondering if, as an E12 owner, would getting an A5 be considered a move up or a lateral?


----------



## Voxata

Issue I had with the E12 on my X5 was a compressed soundstage. The A5 solves this with better sound as well. If you can recoup a decent amount for the E12 highly worth it and is what I did.


----------



## ViolinsNVolta

Just got my A5 to go with my X5ii. I previously had the e12 with X5ii. I have terrible ears but one thing I can say for sure- at higher volumes, music is much more tight and clear with the a5. The e12 seemed to lose control of music at higher volumes...became almost unbearable...please excuse my lack of audiophile terminology.
Also, my 2 more sense-
T90's + a5 + x5ii > T90's + Portaphile 627x + iPod (160gb)


----------



## LoneRanger

voxata said:


> Issue I had with the E12 on my X5 was a compressed soundstage. The A5 solves this with better sound as well. If you can recoup a decent amount for the E12 highly worth it and is what I did.


 
  
 I've got the E12 also and I like it but do find that there is quite a bit notable hiss in the background - does the A5 solve this problem (especially with iem's) ?


----------



## NoteEater

Has anyone driven any 600ohm headphones with the A5?  It is rated for 300ohms on the spec sheet but it shows that as recommended.  
  
 I own one and want to test it out on a pair of 600ohm Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 2 headphones but don't want to damage either product.  
  
 I love the A5 with my HiFiman HE400i and Beyer DT880 250ohm headphones. This little amp has a ton of power for the money and a quick charge with the right type of charger.


----------



## Dobrescu George

loneranger said:


> I've got the E12 also and I like it but do find that there is quite a bit notable hiss in the background - does the A5 solve this problem (especially with iem's) ?


 
  
 E12A did fix the hiss very well. 
  
 A5 fixed hiss that was present with E12, but I have not listened enough to A5 to recommend it over E12A. 
  


noteeater said:


> Has anyone driven any 600ohm headphones with the A5?  It is rated for 300ohms on the spec sheet but it shows that as recommended.
> 
> I own one and want to test it out on a pair of 600ohm Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 2 headphones but don't want to damage either product.
> 
> I love the A5 with my HiFiman HE400i and Beyer DT880 250ohm headphones. This little amp has a ton of power for the money and a quick charge with the right type of charger.


 
  
 You cannot damage headphones like that - worst case scenario - the sound will be a bit soft - you decide if it can drive them well for you!


----------



## NoteEater

I figured that was the case regarding low volume. Just wanted to make sure. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Dobrescu George

noteeater said:


> I figured that was the case regarding low volume. Just wanted to make sure. Thanks for the reply.


 
  
 No problem! 
  
 Hoe you stay safe and hope that you enjoy you gear to the fullest!


----------



## Voxata

loneranger said:


> I've got the E12 also and I like it but do find that there is quite a bit notable hiss in the background - does the A5 solve this problem (especially with iem's) ?




I'll have to verify this however, it was fairly quiet for me on what I have.


----------



## Lavakugel

Is this new a5 a good paring for my fiio x3 2nd? I'm hoping it sound great so I dont have to upgrade to x5.


----------



## Brooko

lavakugel said:


> Is this new a5 a good paring for my fiio x3 2nd? I'm hoping it sound great so I dont have to upgrade to x5.


 

 Its pretty neutral to me.  SO will supply more power for harder to drive headphones - without unduly colouring the signature.


----------



## FiiO

lavakugel said:


> Is this new a5 a good paring for my fiio x3 2nd? I'm hoping it sound great so I dont have to upgrade to x5.


 
 Dear Lavakugel,
  
 You can collect the A5 with your X3II via the 3.5mm to 3.5mm audio cable. You may go to the local store for try by yourself first.
  
 Best regards


----------



## Ultrainferno

loneranger said:


> I've got the E12 also and I like it but do find that there is quite a bit notable hiss in the background - does the A5 solve this problem (especially with iem's) ?


 
  
 I couldn't hear any noise on the A5 (or the E12A for that matter). My review, with comparisons to the E12, E12A and others, is now online.
 To me it's Fiio's best portable amp up to now: http://www.headfonia.com/review-fiio-a5-new-e12-aka-fav-fiio-amp/


----------



## superuser1

Just order an A5 to use with my X5III as well as the E17k. Really optimistic after what i have read so far and a lot of familiar faces


----------



## rusnak666

Thank you Ultrainferno for your great review, i have a question for you, im using dt1990pro with my fiio x7 and am2a module, do you think that fiio a5 will be a upgrade for the sound or have fiio x7 just enough power for the dt1990pro? Thanks


----------



## Dobrescu George

ultrainferno said:


> I couldn't hear any noise on the A5 (or the E12A for that matter). My review, with comparisons to the E12, E12A and others, is now online.
> To me it's Fiio's best portable amp up to now: http://www.headfonia.com/review-fiio-a5-new-e12-aka-fav-fiio-amp/


 
  
 Great review, mate! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I love the level of detail you have in your reviews! 

 We should have a short collection of links to reviews on the first page, for newcomers to find them with ease if they are curious!


----------



## jaxz

Hi there. I recently got this amp. Coming from E12 I'm very pleased with the general performance. Plenty of power to drive my HD600, DT880 (250) and HE500. Very clean sounding. But.....the bass boost sounds really bad to my ears, bloated lows and bleding to the mids. Dont know if the bass boost in my unit it's broken or what.... Make the HD600 sound like an XB500....yeah! that bad (at least to my ears).


----------



## Ultrainferno

rusnak666 said:


> Thank you Ultrainferno for your great review, i have a question for you, im using dt1990pro with my fiio x7 and am2a module, do you think that fiio a5 will be a upgrade for the sound or have fiio x7 just enough power for the dt1990pro? Thanks


 
  
 Thank you. To the X7/AM2 have it beat on technicalities, it might just be a power issue. If you have the DT1990PRO I'd invest in a higher level amplifier tbh


----------



## Voxata

jaxz said:


> Hi there. I recently got this amp. Coming from E12 I'm very pleased with the general performance. Plenty of power to drive my HD600, DT880 (250) and HE500. Very clean sounding. But.....the bass boost sounds really bad to my ears, bloated lows and bleding to the mids. Dont know if the bass boost in my unit it's broken or what.... Make the HD600 sound like an XB500....yeah! that bad (at least to my ears).




This is one gripe I agree with, the amp is awesome however the bass boost is a flat out terrible bleeding mess.


----------



## FiiO

ultrainferno said:


> I couldn't hear any noise on the A5 (or the E12A for that matter). My review, with comparisons to the E12, E12A and others, is now online.
> To me it's Fiio's best portable amp up to now: http://www.headfonia.com/review-fiio-a5-new-e12-aka-fav-fiio-amp/


 
 Dear Ultrainferno,
  
 Thank you for sharing this with us!
  
 Best regards


----------



## superuser1

Do you guys have any thoughts on how to stack the A5 with the X5 III? One option seems to be Velcro I guess. I will post this on the X5 III theard too.


----------



## rusnak666

ultrainferno said:


> Thank you. To the X7/AM2 have it beat on technicalities, it might just be a power issue. If you have the DT1990PRO I'd invest in a higher level amplifier tbh


 
 Thank you for your answer, i just tried today the fiio a5 and i think the x7 with am2a module have better soundstage and layering then a5, which higher level amplifier can you suggets if i can ask? I tried in past only the fiio k5, the soundstage was beautifull, never tried other amps... Thanks


----------



## Light - Man

rusnak666 said:


> Thank you for your answer, i just tried today the fiio a5 and i think the x7 with am2a module have better soundstage and layering then a5, which higher level amplifier can you suggets if i can ask? I tried in past only the fiio k5, the soundstage was beautifull, never tried other amps... Thanks


 
  
 Interesting to hear your views, to you and me it just goes to show that the A5 can be a lot better and it would be great if Fiio were to make a higher level portable amp that we all think they should be capable of - even if it is more expensive than the E12A.
  
 I am also interested in what other portable amp options are available.


----------



## Brooko

superuser1 said:


> Do you guys have any thoughts on how to stack the A5 with the X5 III? One option seems to be Velcro I guess. I will post this on the X5 III theard too.


 
  
 If it's going to be semi-permanent, them 3M Dual Lock would be the way to go.  I used to have it binding my old iPod Touch to my Arrow (way back a long time ago).


----------



## leo5111

how is this compared to the Cayin C5?


----------



## KookaBurrra

Nothing in this price range can beat Cayin C5 !


----------



## superuser1

A5 and the X5 III


----------



## FiiO

superuser1 said:


> A5 and the X5 III


 





COOL!
 Best regards


----------



## leo5111

kookaburrra said:


> Nothing in this price range can beat Cayin C5 !


 
 i have it just wondered if there was anything anywhere near as powerfull but maybe cleaner and is portable like the c5


----------



## HisDudeness

Heads up for any potential UK puchasers. Advanced MP3 have £10 off this amp for the next 4 hours, a quick internet search also reveals a voucher code for a further 10% discount. If purchased via Topcashback then you earn a further 4.99% effectively bringing this down to approx £85.50


----------



## Dobrescu George

hisdudeness said:


> Heads up for any potential UK puchasers. Advanced MP3 have £10 off this amp for the next 4 hours, a quick internet search also reveals a voucher code for a further 10% discount. If purchased via Topcashback then you earn a further 4.99% effectively bringing this down to approx £85.50


 
  
  
 Nice! UK buyers are sure to be happy about this!


----------



## Light - Man

Thanks guys for the tip - but even if I got it for nothing I am not interested - surely there is something else out there?


----------



## HisDudeness

light - man said:


> Thanks guys for the tip - but even if I got it for nothing I am not interested - surely there is something else out there?




Firstly I would say I was pleasantly suprised by the A5, I got a much better performance boost than I was expecting, really blew away the amp section in my X5 1st gen and let the DAC section shine, felt like a new DAP to me.

A lot of users are indicating a clear step up in quality from the E12 so I you can get the chance to audition an A5, please take the opportunity to do so.

That said, if you are serious about wanting something better and are prepared to pay for it then look no further than the Graham Slee Voyager, a masterpiece of circuit design. It might look a little awkward but if sound quality is most important then this is the amp for you. Graham insists on using all UK sourced parts and labour and each unit is individually tested by his small team. The goofy looking casing is a result of him trying to keep the price down to compete with the Chinese market so he had to choose an off the shelf design, the internals are pure genius though. Graham and his team are ex-BBC technicians and really understand linear paths and circuit design. I use their Solo Ultra Linear Diamond Edition head amp and I can't tell yku how good that thing is. (Also use their Reflex M phono stage). All of Grahams products are available to use via a loaner scheme in many parts of the world, all you need to do is cover the postage.


----------



## Blazer39

hisdudeness said:


> Firstly I would say I was pleasantly suprised by the A5, I got a much better performance boost than I was expecting, really blew away the amp section in my X5 1st gen and let the DAC section shine, felt like a new DAP to me.
> 
> A lot of users are indicating a clear step up in quality from the E12 so I you can get the chance to audition an A5, please take the opportunity to do so.
> 
> That said, if you are serious about wanting something better and are prepared to pay for it then look no further than the Graham Slee Voyager, a masterpiece of circuit design. It might look a little awkward but if sound quality is most important then this is the amp for you. Graham insists on using all UK sourced parts and labour and each unit is individually tested by his small team. The goofy looking casing is a result of him trying to keep the price down to compete with the Chinese market so he had to choose an off the shelf design, the internals are pure genius though. Graham and his team are ex-BBC technicians and really understand linear paths and circuit design. I use their Solo Ultra Linear Diamond Edition head amp and I can't tell yku how good that thing is. (Also use their Reflex M phono stage). All of Grahams products are available to use via a loaner scheme in many parts of the world, all you need to do is cover the postage.


 

 you got me interested  on Graham Slee Voyager..do you have both voyager and A5?
 if you have to choose between them, which one would you use?!


----------



## HisDudeness

blazer39 said:


> you got me interested  on Graham Slee Voyager..do you have both voyager and A5?
> if you have to choose between them, which one would you use?!




I have demo'ed a Voyager, albeit a long, long time ago, therefore my memory of it in comparison to the A5 should be taken with a pinch of salt. 

I'm not the kind of guy whom owns multiple pieces of the same type of equipment so doing side by side comparisons is normally impossible. I bought the A5 after missing out on a used Voyager on Ebay (wifi went down grrr) and I saw the A5 for a bargain price (£78) which just about put it in impuse buy territory - heck I don't even NEED a portable amp to run my K550's but heard good things about amping them and was just curious.

Back on subject - if memory serves (large pinch of salt) then yes, The Voyager is superior soundwise, Soundstage being the standout feature. That said I am very happy with my A5 and it fulfils my easy needs. I may have the chance to get my hands on a Voyager in the next week or so, if this materialises then I will post a comparison and sell whichever amp I no longer require.

I must say that Graham Slee gear, whilst seemingly expensive, is in reality the best value gear I have ever used. I would never ever sell my ULDE Solo Head amp and don't believe anyone could ever demonstrate a better amp unless Mr Slee himself could somehow improve the design.

I reiterate the existence of the loaner program at Graham Slee, just join the forum and request a loan from Fatmangolf (if memory serves) you'll get a good couple of weeks to demo the amp with no pressure to buy and only the postage to cover. The GSP forum is a great source of knowledge and everyone is so nice, a rare trait.


----------



## Frase32

I bought a Fiio E18 to use with Tidal on my cell phone. I'm pushing anything from DT 990S 250OHM, to ATH-MSR7s, to M40x and SHP-9500s. The problem is, the E18 is basically not usable for me as it picks up a lot of interference from the cellular signal while near the phone.

So, I need something that size or smaller to pair with my phone that will drive my headphones and not have the same interference issues. Any advice? Does the A5 have proper insulation so that when placed in the same pocket as my phone it minimizes the popping and hissing of the cellular signal?


----------



## FiiO

frase32 said:


> I bought a Fiio E18 to use with Tidal on my cell phone. I'm pushing anything from DT 990S 250OHM, to ATH-MSR7s, to M40x and SHP-9500s. The problem is, the E18 is basically not usable for me as it picks up a lot of interference from the cellular signal while near the phone.
> 
> So, I need something that size or smaller to pair with my phone that will drive my headphones and not have the same interference issues. Any advice? Does the A5 have proper insulation so that when placed in the same pocket as my phone it minimizes the popping and hissing of the cellular signal?




Dear Frase32,

Are you using the USB OTG cable to collect the E18 with your phone but having this issue?

Best regards


----------



## Frase32

fiio said:


> Dear Frase32,
> 
> Are you using the USB OTG cable to collect the E18 with your phone but having this issue?
> 
> Best regards




I get static and popping whether I use an otg cable or just use the device as an amp only and use a 3.5mm cable. From what I gather from researching reviews it's a known issue and Fiio has admitted the device is not properly insulated from EMI. Their solution is listen to music in airplane mode with WiFi off. Not really acceptable as I WANT to stream music using my phone.


----------



## wigglepuff

can the A5 drive the HE400i properly? will it also work plugged in usb power?


----------



## superuser1

wigglepuff said:


> can the A5 drive the HE400i properly? will it also work plugged in usb power?




Can't say about the he400i however I'm sure as it effortlessly drives a lot of high impedance HPs. You can use the amp while charging on USB which I personally have tried.


----------



## Dobrescu George

wigglepuff said:


> can the A5 drive the HE400i properly? will it also work plugged in usb power?


 
  
 E12 was able to fully power he400i if my memory is alright. 
  
 E12A was able as well, it I remember it right
  
 A5 should be more than able 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I used E12A half of time while charging.


----------



## snellemin

wigglepuff said:


> can the A5 drive the HE400i properly? will it also work plugged in usb power?


 
 The A5 should the power the 400i just fine, as it does with the E12.  I've even used the E12A with the 400i.  However in my case I needed more power to truly enjoy the 400i to its full potential.


----------



## wigglepuff

snellemin said:


> The A5 should the power the 400i just fine, as it does with the E12.  I've even used the E12A with the 400i.  However in my case I needed more power to truly enjoy the 400i to its full potential.


 

 what do you mean power it to full? the 400i is only 30hms 98db sens, my eardrums go numb when I listen to it with the A5's knob at 2 o clock point.
  
  


dobrescu george said:


> E12 was able to fully power he400i if my memory is alright.
> 
> E12A was able as well, it I remember it right
> 
> ...


 
  
 can you use the A5 while its charging? it wont commit suicide or send distortions?


----------



## snellemin

wigglepuff said:


> what do you mean power it to full? the 400i is only 30hms 98db sens, my eardrums go numb when I listen to it with the A5's knob at 2 o clock point.
> 
> 
> 
> can you use the A5 while its charging? it wont commit suicide or send distortions?


 
 To produce the lower notes, I plug in the hifiman into the speaker tab of NAD or Parasound.


----------



## Dobrescu George

wigglepuff said:


> what do you mean power it to full? the 400i is only 30hms 98db sens, my eardrums go numb when I listen to it with the A5's knob at 2 o clock point.
> 
> 
> 
> can you use the A5 while its charging? it wont commit suicide or send distortions?


 
  
 Yes, you can totally use A5 while charging in my experience. I would recommend the power to be clean, but I didn't hear much distortion on the setup I tested. But it was a clean power setup, so your mileage may vary with this one.


----------



## xenithon

Anyone else out there seriously hoping for an A5 MkII, to work in conjunction with the X5, which has full balanced amplification capability? Only other option is the X7 with AM3 but that seems quite limited in terms of output


----------



## Dobrescu George

xenithon said:


> Anyone else out there seriously hoping for an A5 MkII, to work in conjunction with the X5, which has full balanced amplification capability? Only other option is the X7 with AM3 but that seems quite limited in terms of output


 
  
 A balanced amp ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I don't have a single balanced headphone right now, but I would like to test one eventually.


----------



## xrk971

I have built over a dozen DIY headphone amps - some are true world class designs including the Salas DCG3 and several Aksa CFP SE Class A designs. I bought an A5 to listen and compare. It's a very nice amp and slick package. If you are interested in listening to a virtual blind audition of these amps (as recorded from signal generated across 270ohm resistive load) check out this thread:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphone-systems/303345-blind-virtual-audition-several-headamps.html

Have fun.


----------



## wigglepuff

na, I want a mostered version of the e10k, best possible dac chip + amp like the a5 or better all in a small affordable pacakge. market murder


----------



## wigglepuff

how long does the A5 take to charge using its stock usb cable to pc?


----------



## superuser1

wigglepuff said:


> how long does the A5 take to charge using its stock usb cable to pc?


 
  
 i used the stock cable app but used a fast charger and it took about 2.5 hours but YMMV


----------



## Dobrescu George

wigglepuff said:


> how long does the A5 take to charge using its stock usb cable to pc?


 
  
 It varies a lot depending on what current your USB port provides. For example, some provide full 2A while others provide 500mA so any answer might be a bit off from your actual results, especially if you have an older PC, or if you don't have enough power in your power supply.
  
 I recommend using external charger or using a US 3.0 port 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Time should be less than 3 hours with good power - depending whether you're using it at the same time or not.


----------



## wigglepuff

ah it fully charged within 3.5hrs, since i forgot to turn it off and only noticed it after it was full, lol  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 is it ok to replace this cable with a standard usb 2 cable (carry both data and power)? the stock cable is so short.


----------



## Dobrescu George

wigglepuff said:


> ah it fully charged within 3.5hrs, since i forgot to turn it off and only noticed it after it was full, lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sure! 

 You shouldn't suffer any differences. I don't think that I've used the stock USB any time because it was a bit short and I use outlet power.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Quote: 





superuser1 said:


> A5 and the X5 III


 
  
  
 In the club


----------



## Dobrescu George

hawaiibadboy said:


> In the club


 
  
 You look like you are having lots of fun!


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

I am enjoying myself


----------



## wigglepuff

doesn't the X5 already have a very good dac/amp? the A5 on it is redundant isn't it?


----------



## Dobrescu George

wigglepuff said:


> doesn't the X5 already have a very good dac/amp? the A5 on it is redundant isn't it?


 
  
 The OP-Amps on X5-3 are different from A5. A5 runs on Muses02 OP-Amps and high power, you are probably going to want to use A5 if you like black backgrounds, soundstage depth and details. A5 is a very nice amp, albeit I have very little time spent with it.


----------



## Brooko

wigglepuff said:


> doesn't the X5 already have a very good dac/amp? the A5 on it is redundant isn't it?


 
  
 Yes - the new X5iii has a pretty good amp already.  You may want to use an add -on amp if you are driving harder to power headphones, or if you wnat to extend the battery life, but not using the X5iiis amp section (you may get around 13 hours or so - depending on how you use the device).
  


dobrescu george said:


> The OP-Amps on X5-3 are different from A5. A5 runs on Muses02 OP-Amps and high power, you are probably going to want to use A5 if you like black backgrounds, soundstage depth and details. A5 is a very nice amp, albeit I have very little time spent with it.


 
  
 Yes the OP amps are different, but TBH I don't hear:
  - a blacker background
  - more soundstage depth (thats more a factor of the recording and the transducers than the DAP)
  - more detail (unlikely unless you are using headphones which are pretty hard to drive and the X5ii does not have enough power)
  
 Biggest issue with the X5iii + A5 is that the A5 has too much power, so not useful for IEMs (generally).  Too little play on the pot. Means that you have to go to variable line-out, which may (haven't tested) affect battery life.
  
 For anyone simply driving IEMs though - I'd suggest just using the X5iii.  Why add bulk if you don't need to?


----------



## Dobrescu George

brooko said:


> Yes - the new X5iii has a pretty good amp already.  You may want to use an add -on amp if you are driving harder to power headphones, or if you wnat to extend the battery life, but not using the X5iiis amp section (you may get around 13 hours or so - depending on how you use the device).
> 
> 
> Yes the OP amps are different, but TBH I don't hear:
> ...


 
  
 Sorry, spent time mostly with A5 + other DAPs, and even so too little to be certain of what I'm saying. I still remember how exciting the sound of my First Gen X5 was when I added E12A 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since A5 and E12A were based off the same internals, I thought that it would change the sound in a similar way. I will get more listening time with A5 when I can


----------



## Brooko

Volume match carefully George (and not by ear).  get someone else to switch when doing comparisons.  There are a variety of reasons to use an amp.  Some of the claims around the improvements with use of one will disappear when testing properly (IMO anyway).


----------



## Benn Beckman

can this powered hungy power cans like dt990 250 or 600 ohm, akg k702 etc?


----------



## Voxata

Sure can, I use this with a 770 250Ohm primarily.


----------



## audioBenj

I am interested to buy this one but what is its difference compared to the E12?


----------



## Voxata

Comments on this are earlier in the thread.


----------



## Benn Beckman

voxata said:


> Sure can, I use this with a 770 250Ohm primarily.


 
 actually i saw a seller sell dt990 600 ohm with bundle fiio A5 for $279.
 for the price, i think that's a great deal. but i'm not sure it will handle hungry cans like dt990 600 ohm, since i don't know how the calculation is. i am noob
 some say high impendance is hard to drive, some say low impendance low sensitivity is hard to drive


----------



## Dobrescu George

benn beckman said:


> actually i saw a seller sell dt990 600 ohm with bundle fiio A5 for $279.
> for the price, i think that's a great deal. but i'm not sure it will handle hungry cans like dt990 600 ohm, since i don't know how the calculation is. i am noob
> some say high impendance is hard to drive, some say low impendance low sensitivity is hard to drive


 
  
 Impedance is not that close related to drive. 

 High impedance cans have really sensitive drivers, while low impedance have less sensitive drivers (harder to move)
  
 Either approach has the same potential to sound good. 
  
 About the power required, it literally depends on the headphone. Ultrasone DJ1P is way harder to drive than Dj1, but you will drive both with the volume pot before 12 o'clock from A5 + high gain.


----------



## Benn Beckman

dobrescu george said:


> Impedance is not that close related to drive.
> 
> High impedance cans have really sensitive drivers, while low impedance have less sensitive drivers (harder to move)
> 
> ...


 
 xo will fiio A5 drive dt990 600 ohm?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

benn beckman said:


> xo will fiio A5 drive dt990 600 ohm?


 

 Yes it will.
 Unless you are a stone cold power user listening at 95+dB all the time then you will be fine. And your ears will be more fine.


----------



## Benn Beckman

hawaiibadboy said:


> Yes it will.
> Unless you are a stone cold power user listening at 95+dB all the time then you will be fine. And your ears will be more fine.


 
 no, i'm brock lesnar power listening 150dB ahhaha
 thanks for replying


----------



## umut

Hello,
  
 I started head fi with DT 770 250 ohm with Fiio A5 set up. If i don't open the high gain on Fiio A5, the sound of headphone is not loud enough even at highest volume of A5. Is this a normal situation?


----------



## Dobrescu George

umut said:


> Hello,
> 
> I started head fi with DT 770 250 ohm with Fiio A5 set up. If i don't open the high gain on Fiio A5, the sound of headphone is not loud enough even at highest volume of A5. Is this a normal situation?


 
  
 You just like your music loud? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Depends how loud you actually go, but shouldn't be this way. At any rate, enabling high gain provides more than enough volume around 2-3 o'clock for you, so you're probably just into loud sound. Take care of your hearing though...


----------



## shuto77

I figured I'd cross-post here. 
  
 I have an LG V10, and I'm thinking about getting this, or a DragonFly Red. What will sound better? I've heard the DFR, and it definitely sounds better than my V10.


----------



## shuto77

umut said:


> Hello,
> 
> I started head fi with DT 770 250 ohm with Fiio A5 set up. If i don't open the high gain on Fiio A5, the sound of headphone is not loud enough even at highest volume of A5. Is this a normal situation?


 
  
 Is your source turned up all the way? My understanding is it's best to turn up the source, then the amp. But I could be mistaken.


----------



## wigglepuff

I've been wondering about this for a while now, will the sound quality be affected if you use long cables with say impedance 0.9 - 0.5 ranges from the dac lineout into the A5 or any other amp? i measured the resistance on the fiio ic and its .02 <-- damn...


----------



## umut

@Dobrescu George if i am correct, low gain of fiio A5 gives you 0 db improvements of sound loudness level, so that setting is just for driving the headphone, it should be? Since i am new at all this head fi thing i expected a good volume gain or loudness when i just plugin the amp to the headphone while it is on low gain but there isn't. So i am a little bit disappointed. Later if i open high gain i don't hear any distortion of sound and generally speaking for the most of tracks i use 11-12 o'clock with amp volume button. When i raise it to 2-3 o'clock i got that loudness for sure but it is kinda different from my cheap headphones and i believe that is because the characteristics of dt 770 250. since dt 770 250 is my first entery level headphone i think i shouldn't expect loudness or much volume gain, but again i am not sure. Because there aren't a lot of equipments around me right now. And i will try to be in a silent place while listening, thank you, does it effect the headphone that much even it is closed one?
   
 

@shuto77 Yes the source has highest volume. When i first arange this setup, i underestimate the importance of dac. And i didn't think dac will improve sound loudness and quality that much. For instance i use iphone SE with these and it is simply the worst audio output i have ever seen, even my onboard sound card is better. "Sidenote: Don't buy i phone se if you want to listen from it, definetely the worst choice as a dac. " Later i used an ipod from 2010 and the sound improvement was impressive. So i decided to add a dac to this set up and i consider to buy USB dac with ES9018k2m. I wish this dac would give what i want.
  
 The main question is when i just plugin my headphone to A5 at low gain. I don't hear any sound improvements that much. What should i wait from A5 if it's setting is "bass->offf" and "gain->low"? What should i hear? What should be different? Thank you.


----------



## Dobrescu George

umut said:


> @Dobrescu George if i am correct, low gain of fiio A5 gives you 0 db improvements of sound loudness level, so that setting is just for driving the headphone, it should be? Since i am new at all this head fi thing i expected a good volume gain or loudness when i just plugin the amp to the headphone while it is on low gain but there isn't. So i am a little bit disappointed. Later if i open high gain i don't hear any distortion of sound and generally speaking for the most of tracks i use 11-12 o'clock with amp volume button. When i raise it to 2-3 o'clock i got that loudness for sure but it is kinda different from my cheap headphones and i believe that is because the characteristics of dt 770 250. since dt 770 250 is my first entery level headphone i think i shouldn't expect loudness or much volume gain, but again i am not sure. Because there aren't a lot of equipments around me right now. And i will try to be in a silent place while listening, thank you, does it effect the headphone that much even it is closed one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not sure what the question is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 2-3 o'clock at high gain is pretty loud, most I can say so far is please take care of your hearing... 
  


wigglepuff said:


> I've been wondering about this for a while now, will the sound quality be affected if you use long cables with say impedance 0.9 - 0.5 ranges from the dac lineout into the A5 or any other amp? i measured the resistance on the fiio ic and its .02 <-- damn...


 
  
 Using longer cables can affect the sound in many ways, name crossfeed, inductance, impedance and so on. 
  
 The question is whether the changes are audible and that is hard to answer.
  
 My simple mood changes and such will affect sound more than different AMPs or DACs sometimes, because mood swings matter more to even how focused you are on music alas how well you can distinguish things so don't worry too much. I'm sure that adding a few OHMs of resistance isn't going to kill your sound - you want to be careful of how the cable is built inside but I trust FiiO cables to make good cables that don't change sound.


----------



## umut

@Dobrescu George The main question is when i just plugin my headphone to A5 at low gain. I don't hear any sound improvements that much. What should i wait from A5 if it's setting is "bass->offf" and "gain->low"? What should i hear? What should be different? Thank you.


----------



## Dobrescu George

umut said:


> @Dobrescu George The main question is when i just plugin my headphone to A5 at low gain. I don't hear any sound improvements that much. What should i wait from A5 if it's setting is "bass->offf" and "gain->low"? What should i hear? What should be different? Thank you.


 
  
 What are you plugging it in and how? 

 A5 has its own sonic signature, it has a smooth top end, not really rolled off but way smooth, very detailed sound, a very good depth to sound, good width and black background. 
  
 IF youre plugging it in the headphone output instead of the line out, it is possible for it to sound worse than the headphone output because you're double amping the signal...


----------



## umut

You can see my setup at this picture: https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtPmCSfRntNllDxcMVKxtX3USG9A

DAP(ipod headphone output) connects to A5's lineout via aux cable. DT 770 connects to A5's headphone out. That's all. Am i missing something?


----------



## umut

My current set up is like this
  
 ipod headphone out is connected to A5 via Aux cable. DT 770 is connected A5 via A5's headphone out. Is there something wrong or do i miss something? @Dobrescu George


----------



## Dobrescu George

umut said:


> My current set up is like this
> 
> ipod headphone out is connected to A5 via Aux cable. DT 770 is connected A5 via A5's headphone out. Is there something wrong or do i miss something? @Dobrescu George


 
  
 The setup you're using is loading dirty signal to A5. ipod headphone out is a dirty signal which had already been amped so you're not loading pure signal to your A5, the sound cannot be better and will be the same at best - the explanation being that athe signal entering A5 is allready dirty. 
  
 You need a device that has a line out to connect A5 to.
  
 For your ipod, you need an ipod line out cable, FiiO used to make one named L3. I have no idea if those are this produced, but this is an image of what you should be using. This provides a much better signal to A5, providing a clean signal. Double amping is always going to degrade audio signal when amping.
  

  
  
 Note: There are more and I don't know which is still in production, but you should be able to fins something similar around


----------



## HotIce

My setup. Lighting to 30 pin connector (which has a Wolfson DAC inside) plus FiiO cable.
 Can't really tell much of a difference compared to when fed from much more expensive DACs.


----------



## Dobrescu George

hotice said:


> My setup. Lighting to 30 pin connector (which has a Wolfson DAC inside) plus FiiO cable.
> Can't really tell much of a difference compared to when fed from much more expensive DACs.


 
  
  
 I'm actually into ESS DACs, like really love those as Wolfsons are warm, but either way if it works for you, you're set to be happy! 

 BTW, this might sound strange, but at the point you have that setup isn't the lighting connector put under strain? Like, the upcoming FiiO Q5 which works via BT might be considerably better for iPhone users who don't want this kinda connector since lightnning connectors are much smaller and frailer looking when compared to the old connectors.


----------



## HotIce

I don't carry that setup around. I have the iPhone and the E12 close to each other sitting either on my couch or a table.
 For carrying, I think you can bend the FiiO cable into shape, as many do when the pile the iPhone on top of the amps.


----------



## xuser

cayin c5 or fiio a5 is better in power? i see somewhere a5 is only 600mW@16ohm


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

xuser said:


> cayin c5 or fiio a5 is better in power? i see somewhere a5 is only 600mW@16ohm


 

 ​ I have both and they are close. I do not push either to max but I do not have any high impedance cans besides the Beyer T1 (600 ohm)
 The Cayin has more power via spec but the A5 is dead silent in the background so I prefer it


----------



## xuser

hawaiibadboy said:


> ​ I have both and they are close. I do not push either to max but I do not have any high impedance cans besides the Beyer T1 (600 ohm)
> The Cayin has more power via spec but the A5 is dead silent in the background so I prefer it


 
 thanks your opinion, i think i prefer a5 too, but i want the best for jvc sz2000 (need lots power)


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

xuser said:


> thanks your opinion, i think i prefer a5 too, but i want the best for jvc sz2000 (need lots power)


 

 ​Pure portable power for SZ???   iDSDmicro  >>FiiO E12/Cayin C5>>>A5     The SZ bass vids were done mostly with a FiiO e12. I did most of the vids


----------



## xuser

hawaiibadboy said:


> ​Pure portable power for SZ???   iDSDmicro  >>FiiO E12/Cayin C5>>>A5     The SZ bass vids were done mostly with a FiiO e12. I did most of the vids


 

 fiio e12 and a5 is not the same power level?


----------



## umut

@Dobrescu George do i have to get a DAC with that cable like @HotIce ? Because just using "3.5mm Audio Line Out + 30pin Usb Dock Cable for Iphone Ipod" (i cant share external links you need to google it to see cable, sorry) didn't work.


----------



## Dobrescu George

umut said:


> @Dobrescu George do i have to get a DAC with that cable like @HotIce ? Because just using "3.5mm Audio Line Out + 30pin Usb Dock Cable for Iphone Ipod" (i cant share external links you need to google it to see cable, sorry) didn't work.


 
  
 Sorry, but I am not an expert about this, but given the looks, it really looks like you can connect the 3.5mm directly to A5 without experiencing distortions.


----------



## ceemsc

umut said:


> @Dobrescu George
> do i have to get a DAC with that cable like @HotIce
> ? Because just using "3.5mm Audio Line Out + 30pin Usb Dock Cable for Iphone Ipod" (i cant share external links you need to google it to see cable, sorry) didn't work.




Am I right in saying that you don't need a DAC? The iPod DAC had already done its work & you only need a line-out to A5 with one of the aforementioned lighting cables to avoid double-amping.


----------



## umut

@ceemsc i am exactly searching that answer. Because i tried 30 pin(ipod touch) to aux (A5), lightning (iphone) to aux (A5), micro USB (tablet) to aux (A5), all cables without dac. None of them worked. All media players continue to play music from their speakers.


----------



## ceemsc

umut said:


> @ceemsc
> i am exactly searching that answer. Because i tried 30 pin(ipod touch) to aux (A5), lightning (iphone) to aux (A5), micro USB (tablet) to aux (A5), all cables without dac. None of them worked. All media players continue to play music from their speakers.




Normally when the Lightning cable is plugged into the iPod/iPhone port, the speakers & headphone out is supposed to shut off leaving a full-line-out signal via the Lightning connection. This is how iPod docks work.

What cables are you using? They don't seem to be triggering the necessary system response assuming there is nothing wrong with the Apple DAPs.


----------



## thelonious58

I need advice! Has anyone here auditioned the A5 and the Cayin C5 and the Aune B1? I appreciate that this is a big ask, but I would like to know how they compare in the following scenario;
 I currently listen to mp3 (320) on my ipod classic 160 Gb connected via LOD L9 through AKG K612 driven by a Topping NX-1. As I listen at low to moderate levels I do not get any clipping ( I do at higher volume on high gain). I like the detailed and clear sound, most of which I think is down to the K612.
 Bearing in mind that I listen at moderate levels, would I get much improvement by replacing the Topping with one of these three well-reviewed amps? 
 I am pretty sure that all three will drive the K612 more than adequately, so my main question is about the sound quality. I enjoy most of all detail, clarity, balance and a believable soundstage. I am not a basshead, although I like the sub-bass and occasional rumble I get even from my current setup. I have come to the conclusion that soundstage is mainly due to the recording itself rather than anything an amp does
 Sorry about the long preamble, but I really would value anyone's opinions on these three amps. The Topping is supposed to be underpowered, but some spec tables indicate that it is not too far behind the three amps I have asked about here
 I listen to all kinds of classical music and jazz ( Miles, Monk. Mingus, Coltrane etc)
 Thanks in advance


----------



## ceemsc

thelonious58 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sorry, only have experience of the A5.

However my understanding is the extra $ spent on an amp goes towards better build, practicality, damping & overall product. The ideal amp is only gain on the wire with minimal distortion & noise. Any coloration & frequency response changes should only be at the user's direction.

Therefore I would have thought soundstage is dictated either by the headphone or the music source. The "cave" like narrow soundstage of the original E12 is a downside of that amp which the A5 does not have.


----------



## thelonious58

Thanks for your prompt and helpful reply. The A5 does seem to be an improvement over the E12


----------



## umut

@ceemsc Can't paste links, but the name of the cord is 3.5mm Audio Line Out + 30pin Usb Dock Cable for Iphone Ipod.
  
 There isn't any dock to connect, i just directly connect cable 30pin to ipod and later aux to A5. This cable could just be for charging purpose even it has an aux output.
  
 I just ordered a DAC and i really wonder if iphone or ipod don't know cable, would dac work? My setup would be,  iphone -> OTG Cable -> DAC -> AMP -> Headphone.


----------



## ceemsc

umut said:


> @ceemsc
> Can't paste links, but the name of the cord is 3.5mm Audio Line Out + 30pin Usb Dock Cable for iPhone iPod




I've seen what you mean for Amazon for £2.68 ~ $3.26

Respectfully this is cable is a cheap knock-off only good for charging if it fits & does not break any electrical safety standards. I've had plenty in the past which were mixed in usefulness for charging but rubbish for iTunes syncing.

You are better off investing £15+ / $20+ on an official retail cable or those previously mentioned for the sake of reliability & safety if not for audio quality in the chain.



umut said:


> I just ordered a DAC and i really wonder if iphone or ipod don't know cable, would dac work? My setup would be,  iphone -> OTG Cable -> DAC -> AMP -> Headphone.




That won't work as your External DAC is expecting a digital signal but the DAC in your IPhone has already converted this to an analogue audio signal.


----------



## umut

ceemsc said:


> That won't work as your External DAC is expecting a digital signal but the DAC in your IPhone has already converted this to an analogue audio signal.


 
  
 I think this depends on the features of DAC. The dac i bought has an android and iphone compatibility list, see hifimediy.
  
 On the other hand, i am not going to try different cables anymore and i agree with you about quality of cables. Instead of this, i bought an original apple dock with a line out behind of it. Since i am not a mobil guy that much this could solve my problem until dac comes.
  
 If we return my main problem. I really wonder how would A5 effect sound expecially loudness, i couldn't catch loudness that i want at low gain settings and after talking with @Dobrescu George i assume that is due to internal amp of players and A5 doesn't touch sound that much at low gain setting.


----------



## thelonious58

hawaiibadboy said:


> ​ I have both and they are close. I do not push either to max but I do not have any high impedance cans besides the Beyer T1 (600 ohm)
> The Cayin has more power via spec but the A5 is dead silent in the background so I prefer it



Which of the two amps has the clearer, less warm, more neutral/ linear sound? My little Topping Nx-1 on high gain setting may be underpowered, but I get a clear and transparent sound through AKG K612 ( high impedance, low sensitivity) from my iPod classic 160Gb via LOD L9 from lineout. I would assume that a more powerful amp would produce an even better sound, but I would like to know your opinion. I only listen at low to moderate volume levels


----------



## thelonious58

lohb said:


> Surprised A5 beats out C5 on sound-stage, as the Cayin was pretty great for that so A5 must be excellent !



This comparison is very interesting. I auditioned a C5 via LOD L9 from my iPod classic 160Gb through a pair of AKG K612 headphones and enjoyed it, but actually preferred the sound using my underpowered Topping Nx-1, a bit clearer and less warm/smooth. I also found the bass with the C5 to lack proper sub-bass unless I turned the bass boost on, whereas the sub-bass is definitely there with the Topping Nx-1! I am thinking about trying out the A5, but still not sure......,


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

thelonious58 said:


> Which of the two amps has the clearer, *less warm*, more neutral/ linear sound?


 
  The FiiO A5 does.
  
 The C5 is brilliant but it has a smooth tint it puts on gear used with it. That's the appeal. The A5 is dead nothing. If that were a DAP dead nothing would = lifeless and not musical to me but for an amp it is ideal.


----------



## thelonious58

hawaiibadboy said:


> The FiiO A5 does.
> 
> The C5 is brilliant but it has a smooth tint it puts on gear used with it. That's the appeal. The A5 is dead nothing. If that were a DAP dead nothing would = lifeless and not musical to me but for an amp it is ideal.



Thanks! I really appreciate your analysis. When I auditioned a C5 via LOD L9 from my iPod classic through AKG K612 the sound was very smooth, so much that I returned the C5 and have since been using a Topping Nx-1 instead. Underpowered, most probably. Better clarity and detail retrieval, to my ears, definitely. I only listen at low to moderate volume levels


----------



## umut

@ceemsc @Dobrescu George i would like to update, currently i couldn't open sound even at 3 o'clock at low gain at Fiio A5.  I think i got what i want with a DAC. Thanks for your helps. By the way, DAC works with all android mobile devices with above configuration i mentioned but i have problem with apple devices, i could solve it anyhow. Thanks for your time guys..


----------



## Hauntednk

Hi guys,
  
 I bought 3 weeks ago FiiO A5 and Fiio X5II, all new. And I have found that both of them become warm when it is working. And A5 is much warmer than X5II, I would say that A5 is very warm, maybe hot. I wonder if it is normal? What about your A5, guys?
  
 I use A5 + X5II + JVC SZ2000. A5 has settings: Gain - High, Bass - On, Volume ~ 1-2 pm. 
  
 Thank you.


----------



## superuser1

hauntednk said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I bought 3 weeks ago FiiO A5 and Fiio X5II, all new. And I have found that both of them become warm when it is working. And A5 is much warmer than X5II, I would say that A5 is very warm, maybe hot. I wonder if it is normal? What about your A5, guys?
> 
> ...


 
  
 It does tend to get warm but i wont call it hot at any stage.


----------



## Dobrescu George

hauntednk said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I bought 3 weeks ago FiiO A5 and Fiio X5II, all new. And I have found that both of them become warm when it is working. And A5 is much warmer than X5II, I would say that A5 is very warm, maybe hot. I wonder if it is normal? What about your A5, guys?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Absolutely normal. 
  
 As long as you can touch it and keep your hand on it, it is generally within limits. First generation of X5 used to get reaaally warm, same for E12A. 
  
 Don't pocket them, keep them in hands for better control over temperature.


----------



## umut

When i use it in protective cover, it gets warm. "not hot"
  
 P.S: I handled it to work with iphone


----------



## Dobrescu George

umut said:


> When i use it in protective cover, it gets warm. "not hot"
> 
> P.S: I handled it to work with iphone


 
  
 Do not use it in protective cover... It is within the instructions paper - you're only supposed to carry it in that cover, never use it inside.


----------



## thelonious58

light - man said:


> @flognarde
> 
> 
> I got a E12A and a A5 a few days ago but have not had much time to play with them yet, to complicate things I also have just got a Chord Mojo (again) so I have a few too many toys to play with.
> ...



Nice comparative review! I had a similar experience with the A5, but comparing it with the E17K. I have moderate hearing loss in the treble and midrange areas and I use hearing aids for conversation and when out and about, so for me, clarity is a prime requirement, as I don't want to wear my hearing aids when listening to music through headphones. A few months ago I bought the famously hard to drive AKG K612 and was immediately captivated by its wonderful clarity, accuracy and precision, also its lack of midbass bump (which was the reason why I sold my Sennheiser HD598). My only problem; I only had a little Topping Nx-1 amp to drive them, connected to my iPod classic 160Gb via a Fiio LOD L9. As I never listen above moderate volume levels, there was no clipping, and I was very happy with the clear sound signature and the high level of detail retrieval. Then I read Brooko's reviews of the E17K and the A5, so I bought the E17K and could definitely hear an improvement in sound, no doubt due to its higher output (OK, only 200mv into 32 Ohms). Out of curiosity I ordered an A5 just to check whether its higher output would bring out the best from my AKG K612. Initial impressions were excellent, a very solid, deep and detailed sound which worked really well on chamber music and jazz. When I switched to orchestral music the impression changed a lot. The sound was thicker than with the E17K, even with the E17K without any treble or bass adjustment. Then I remembered what several experts on hard to drive headphones have said, that the bass improves most noticeably..... now I was hearing that increase, but I didn't like it. If the A5 had treble and bass adjustment like the E17K, I would have cutthe bass a little, but it doesn't. So for my defective hearing, the E17K had the better sound, and now on some tracks I increase the bass a little and get a sound almost as refined as the A5, but without the thick bass. I duly returned the A5. My search is now over! I know that I will never get a more satisfying sound than my current setup with the E17K and AKG K612. So the old adage "Trust your own ears" has a lot of truth in it. Also, perhaps power is not everything....


----------



## wigglepuff

whats the normal charging time of the A5 when using another usb2 cable? 10 hrs?
  
 I charged it using a usb2 datacable when it started blinking red and just left it but its still charing untill now and its been 7hrs 15mins. Is this normal?
  
 edit: ok right about 3mins after I posted this it became full, 7hrs 15mins plus... using a usb 2 data cable plugged right at the back of the mobo.


----------



## The Frenchman

Hi,

A computer USB port is limited to 500 milliamperes (or 900 mA for a USB 3.0 port). The dedicated wall charger, on the other hand, is usually able to provide 1000 mA or more....
Charging from a USB port of a computer is slower than charging using a charger because the voltage and amperage provided by the computer is considerably lower than in the case of using a normal charger.
 Using a usb 2 data cable plugged right at the back of the mobo doesn't change anything ... no more power...


----------



## wigglepuff

the frenchman said:


> Hi,
> 
> A computer USB port is limited to 500 milliamperes (or 900 mA for a USB 3.0 port). The dedicated wall charger, on the other hand, is usually able to provide 1000 mA or more....
> Charging from a USB port of a computer is slower than charging using a charger because the voltage and amperage provided by the computer is considerably lower than in the case of using a normal charger.
> Using a usb 2 data cable plugged right at the back of the mobo doesn't change anything ... no more power...


 

 Yes i know, but what fiio forgot to specify is that using a 5v/2A wall charger means you also need a usb cable thats capable of handling 5v/2A, standard usb cables dont allow this and some usb cables although labelled as usb 2.0 or 3.0 are actually underperforming in power delivery not even getting close to 500ma.
  
 and the actual power cable that came with the A5 is less than a foot long...


----------



## The Frenchman

Syncwire (a little bit expensive) on amazon is a good quality for USB cable. Low price = bad quality and underperforming in power.
 Good wall charger and usb cable too = 2,5 hours max to charge your A5. It's this time for my A5.


----------



## BoomBap08

Anybody tried comparing the A5 and the Topping NX5?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

boombap08 said:


> Anybody tried comparing the A5 and the Topping NX5?


 

 ​I have not compared but the power output looks to be less on the topping.  I have no experience with the Topping but my reply is a bump for your inquiry. Maybe somebody else will answer


----------



## 397324

Can someone recommend a high-quality 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to connect a FiiO A5 to an X5ii?


----------



## Persco

darren cotter said:


> Can someone recommend a high-quality 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to connect a FiiO A5 to an X5ii?


 
  
 This might be helpful...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/693970/comparing-amp-interconnect-silver-upgrades-silver-gold-basic-by-onest11


----------



## Brooko

Yep - the short interconnect included with the A5. Ultimately it's very functional and there will be no audible effect on the sound anyway.


----------



## ElectronicTonic

brooko said:


> Yep - the short interconnect included with the A5. Ultimately it's very functional and there will be no audible effect on the sound anyway.


I love that cable! It's so small, I'm always afraid I'm going to lose it.


----------



## The Frenchman

FIIO L16
 Between my A5 and X5 I


----------



## BoomBap08

hawaiibadboy said:


> ​I have not compared but the power output looks to be less on the topping.  I have no experience with the Topping but my reply is a bump for your inquiry. Maybe somebody else will answer


 
 Thanks! I was about to purchase one when I stumbled across a Topping NX5 ad. But sadly, there are still no concrete reviews of the product in the net so...


----------



## bms44974

darren cotter said:


> Can someone recommend a high-quality 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to connect a FiiO A5 to an X5ii?


 

 I like the FiiO L17. The right-angle connection doesn't stick out so far as the L16.
  
 Cheers... Brian


----------



## 397324

Thanks for all your answers. I'll probably get one of the FiiO cables. They are only just over £10.


----------



## Atortide

Would FiiO A5 be a good choice to power HD800?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

atortide said:


> Would FiiO A5 be a good choice to per power HD800?


 

 ​It would be enough to drive them. Most folks use them at home and use schiit stacks or Woo fireflies and stuff like that but yeah the A5 will drive the HD800


----------



## Dobrescu George

I also recommend FiiO K5 for HD800. It is in the same price range, but should have a bit more power


----------



## Atortide

dobrescu george said:


> I also recommend FiiO K5 for HD800. It is in the same price range, but should have a bit more power


 
  
 FiiO K5 is just perfect DAC/Amp I've been looking for. Thank you for your suggestion. Can you share your experience with K5?
  
 Edit: The only downsides are that it's not portable and the dock only works with their FiiO players. I'm still considering K5, but I'd like to have more suggestions before I decide to go ahead with the purchase.


----------



## Dobrescu George

atortide said:


> FiiO K5 is just perfect DAC/Amp I've been looking for. Thank you for your suggestion. Can you share your experience with K5?
> 
> Edit: The only downsides are that it's not portable and the dock only works with their FiiO players. I'm still considering K5, but I'd like to have more suggestions before I decide to go ahead with the purchase.


 
  
 FiiO K5 is an AMP, it doesn't have a DAC of its own, just like A5. 
  
 Driving HD800, I would  say that K5 can get to very good results. Clean sound, very good details and soundstage. The sound is more lean that it is on Tube AMPs like Wa22. Loudness wise, it does a very good job!


----------



## HardstyleLoco96

Hello, i'm here and just wondering how the Fiio A5 compares to the Aune B1 2016 and Oppo Ha2-Se. I currently am using my HTC 10 with poweramp alpha and the Dac to me is very comparable to the Dac in the HA2-Se. I just need an amp that sounds very clear and transparent with good deatil retrieval and soundstage. I used to own the Shozy Magic but was only good for iems. The headphones I been using are the Fidelio X2 and Oriveti New Primacy. So out of the A5, B1 and Ha2-Se which had the clearest, cleaner and widest amp section? I also need the amp to be good with low sensitivity and low ohm iems. Example the Oriveti New Primacy.


----------



## Frase32

frase32 said:


> I bought a Fiio E18 to use with Tidal on my cell phone. I'm pushing anything from DT 990S 250OHM, to ATH-MSR7s, to M40x and SHP-9500s. The problem is, the E18 is basically not usable for me as it picks up a lot of interference from the cellular signal while near the phone.
> 
> So, I need something that size or smaller to pair with my phone that will drive my headphones and not have the same interference issues. Any advice? Does the A5 have proper insulation so that when placed in the same pocket as my phone it minimizes the popping and hissing of the cellular signal?




Bumping my original question as I never really got a response.


----------



## Dobrescu George

frase32 said:


> Bumping my original question as I never really got a response.


 
  
 A5 shouldn't get much EMI, but it cannot replace E18 either. A5 is not a DAC / AMP, but an AMP. 

 I'm not sure if adding E18 + A5 would reduce the amount of EMI you're experiencing. 
  
 The last FiiO device I knew of that had EMI problems was X5 first generation. 
  
 X5 second generation didn't present any more EMi problems, and I assumed all of them were EMI free...


----------



## Frase32

dobrescu george said:


> A5 shouldn't get much EMI, but it cannot replace E18 either. A5 is not a DAC / AMP, but an AMP.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if adding E18 + A5 would reduce the amount of EMI you're experiencing.
> ...




I appreciate the reply. At this point it wouldn't matter. I don't use the dac function of the E18 anyway.


----------



## Frase32

I just want an amp to drive some of my headphones that doesn't introduce EMI when paired with my phone.


----------



## Dobrescu George

frase32 said:


> I just want an amp to drive some of my headphones that doesn't introduce EMI when paired with my phone.


 
  
 I honestly cannot say for sure at this point since I only owned E12A for a longer period of time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 E12A had no EMI at all in my experience, but I've tested A5 while sitting at a table, with my phone being pretty far. If I manage to test it while my phone is near it, I'll return with an answer!


----------



## superuser1

frase32 said:


> I just want an amp to drive some of my headphones that doesn't introduce EMI when paired with my phone.


 
  
 Give me a couple of hours and ill report back.


----------



## superuser1

frase32 said:


> frase32 said:
> 
> 
> > I bought a Fiio E18 to use with Tidal on my cell phone. I'm pushing anything from DT 990S 250OHM, to ATH-MSR7s, to M40x and SHP-9500s. The problem is, the E18 is basically not usable for me as it picks up a lot of interference from the cellular signal while near the phone.
> ...


 
  
 I m currently playing SoundCloud on my OnePlus 3t stacked on the A5. Has been about 20 mins of listening and i don't hear any interference at all. The phone is stacked on top of the A5 to maximise interference if any. I am happy to report back there has been none so far.


----------



## Dobrescu George

superuser1 said:


> I m currently playing SoundCloud on my OnePlus 3t stacked on the A5. Has been about 20 mins of listening and i don't hear any interference at all. The phone is stacked on top of the A5 to maximise interference if any. I am happy to report back there has been none so far.


 
  
 Super cool! 

 FiiO does a good job with their AMPs in general! 

 I haven't seen any EMI from the original X5 to this day. I'm glad yo know you haven't found any either!


----------



## superuser1

dobrescu george said:


> superuser1 said:
> 
> 
> > I m currently playing SoundCloud on my OnePlus 3t stacked on the A5. Has been about 20 mins of listening and i don't hear any interference at all. The phone is stacked on top of the A5 to maximise interference if any. I am happy to report back there has been none so far.
> ...


 
  
 I agree and their E17k also has good insulation from interference.


----------



## Frase32

Good to hear that A5 seems to be free of EMI interference when stacked with a phone.  I wonder if steaming Tidal would make a difference since the phone would be constantly pulling signal.  I wonder why my E18 gets so much EMI.  It doesn't matter if I use it as a dac/amp or a standalone amp.  It gets noticeable EMI.  Scouring through the Amazon reviews I saw other people were having the same problems.  Fiio's response to them was to put the phone in airplane mode........which.........sucks..........


----------



## superuser1

frase32 said:


> Good to hear that A5 seems to be free of EMI interference when stacked with a phone.  I wonder if steaming Tidal would make a difference since the phone would be constantly pulling signal.  I wonder why my E18 gets so much EMI.  It doesn't matter if I use it as a dac/amp or a standalone amp.  It gets noticeable EMI.  Scouring through the Amazon reviews I saw other people were having the same problems.  Fiio's response to them was to put the phone in airplane mode........which.........sucks..........


 
  
 I think i said i was using SoundCloud, which also constantly pulls signal.


----------



## Dobrescu George

frase32 said:


> Good to hear that A5 seems to be free of EMI interference when stacked with a phone.  I wonder if steaming Tidal would make a difference since the phone would be constantly pulling signal.  I wonder why my E18 gets so much EMI.  It doesn't matter if I use it as a dac/amp or a standalone amp.  It gets noticeable EMI.  Scouring through the Amazon reviews I saw other people were having the same problems.  Fiio's response to them was to put the phone in airplane mode........which.........sucks..........


 
  
  
 Even though I didn't own or really hear E18, I'm sorry to hear that you had such problems with it... Let's hope that your next soluton satisfies you completely!


----------



## PsiCore

How does the A5 affect bass?
  
 I'm using X5iii with CIEMs Merlins and tried this combination with Cayin C5, but this amp smooths the sound too much. What I like though is the effect of more bass power.
 A5 is said to be a pretty neutral amp, but does its high power affect also bass power? Or will I hear/feel no change in bass at all?


----------



## Dobrescu George

psicore said:


> How does the A5 affect bass?
> 
> I'm using X5iii with CIEMs Merlins and tried this combination with Cayin C5, but this amp smooths the sound too much. What I like though is the effect of more bass power.
> A5 is said to be a pretty neutral amp, but does its high power affect also bass power? Or will I hear/feel no change in bass at all?


 
  
 With CIEMs, probably not. 
  
 With big headphones, it would improve bass quite a bit. 
  
 But, A5 has a bass slider, which should help you enhance the bass


----------



## Voxata

I'm using DT770&K702 on my X5/A5. Lots of bass improvement with A5. On a tidbit side note, my HE560 does not sound great on it lol.


----------



## modelcitizen89

I am having my E12A right now. Not really satisfied with its outcome. Looking forward to this A5, also seems to be a more trendy look.


----------



## milodinosaur

Mainly using the A5 with my HD25-1. I find that the bass boost increases more sub-bass presence but it's actually quite subtle, unlike my JDS labs C5, which literally causes my cans to vibrate.
  
 Been pretty impressed with this little thing, I like the sound on my HD25-1 with the gain on high but it'll go crazy loud even at low gain and with the volume at 1/2.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

modelcitizen89 said:


> I am having my E12A right now. Not really satisfied with its outcome. Looking forward to this A5, also seems to be a more trendy look.


 
  
  
 It has no sound. It just amps the signal. Some amps add a tint of color but the A5 does not. It keeps my X5iii sounding like a more powerful....X5iii. It's a nice piece of kit.
 It replaced my Cayin C5 completely.


----------



## modelcitizen89

hawaiibadboy said:


> It has no sound. It just amps the signal. Some amps add a tint of color but the A5 does not. It keeps my X5iii sounding like a more powerful....X5iii. It's a nice piece of kit.
> It replaced my Cayin C5 completely.


 

 I am using X3ii now. Would you say the new X5iii is a worthy upgrade? Would it support usb output ?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

modelcitizen89 said:


> I am using X3ii now. Would you say the new X5iii is a worthy upgrade? Would it support usb output ?


 

 Oh hell yeah.
  
 The USB function is being implimented by FiiO via FW updates right now. I would check that thread and ask specifically about that function as I do not use it myself


----------



## modelcitizen89

thanks a lot! I'll check it out


----------



## Silent Xaxal

Quick question, would using the bass boost while using headphones like the V-Moda M-100 cause hearing damage/hearing loss?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

silent xaxal said:


> Quick question, would using the bass boost while using headphones like the V-Moda M-100 cause hearing damage/hearing loss?


 
  
  No, the bass boost is subtle.
  
 You could.... listen to a bass note, 55Hz for example for 2 minutes non stop at a pretty high volume. Might be uncomfortable? Might cause a ringing in your ear. You might like it?
  
 You listen to 5Khz at the same volume for 2 minutes and you can permanently damage your hearing and/or rip your face off in chaotic misery before the 1st minute finished. nobody I have ever met would enjoy that.
  
  
 Any sound at an excessive volume is unsafe.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

hawaiibadboy said:


> No, the bass boost is subtle.
> 
> You could.... listen to a bass note, 55Hz for example for 2 minutes non stop at a pretty high volume. Might be uncomfortable? Might cause a ringing in your ear. You might like it?
> 
> ...




So, even with bass heavy cans like the m-100s, the Bass boost won't damage my hearing?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

silent xaxal said:


> So, even with bass heavy cans like the m-100s, the Bass boost won't damage my hearing?


 

 No.
  
 Keep the volume/gain to a level that is not too loud over all. the M100  and the A5 bass boost switch are not going to damage your hearing unless you put the volume up too high. If it sounds too loud it is too loud.


----------



## spacecowboyz

Anyone used the A5 with LZ-a4 ? Good synergy ?
Am looking at Dragonfly/A5 and the mint tin amps to pair it with....I understand i'll need a DAC with 2 of them.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

spacecowboyz said:


> Anyone used the A5 with LZ-a4 ? Good synergy ?
> Am looking at Dragonfly/A5 and the mint tin amps to pair it with....I understand i'll need a DAC with 2 of them.



Not sure maybe someone chimes in so i bump this. The A5 is black in the back so no real sound. Pretty clean and not compact sounding like the original e12


----------



## poto

Just wondering. Did anyone else run into problems with the jacks on the A5?
I went through two of them.
The first one I figured was a dud after using multiple line cables and headphones.
Any touching of the cables caused me to spend minutes attempting get the cables to a position that wasn't cutting out audio in one headphone or the other or dropping sound quality, with either the headphone connector or the line connector.
RMA'd, figured fluke.
Second one wound up having the same issue.

I have given up for now on the A5 and have since ordered an xDuoo XD-05 which I like so far.

-Poto


----------



## superuser1

I have never had this problem. I mean the second one also coming with the same defect is a little too coincidental.


----------



## Dobrescu George

poto said:


> Just wondering. Did anyone else run into problems with the jacks on the A5?
> I went through two of them.
> The first one I figured was a dud after using multiple line cables and headphones.
> Any touching of the cables caused me to spend minutes attempting get the cables to a position that wasn't cutting out audio in one headphone or the other or dropping sound quality, with either the headphone connector or the line connector.
> ...





superuser1 said:


> I have never had this problem. I mean the second one also coming with the same defect is a little too coincidental.



I had no problems with an A5 when I briefly heard one at AVstore. Maybe there is a bad batch out there that had those problems and you just happened to have two pieces from that same batch, or maybe the store sent the one you sent back...


----------



## poto

Love my Fiio x5 3rd gen, all of the jacks seem very stable and I have had zero issues.
On the two A5s the jacks had quite a bit of play. It was in both the line in jack as well as the 3.5mm headphone out jack.
Had high hopes with the low price and all of the hype but it just wasn't my experience.
Purchased both through Amazon prime. Not sure if they were from the same batches.
They were ordered almost two months apart.
Tried the supprot route on the first one until they said contact retailer for replacement
When the second one came and exhibitted the same problems I shipped it right back

-poto


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

poto said:


> Love my Fiio x5 3rd gen, all of the jacks seem very stable and I have had zero issues.
> On the two A5s the jacks had quite a bit of play. It was in both the line in jack as well as the 3.5mm headphone out jack.
> Had high hopes with the low price and all of the hype but it just wasn't my experience.
> Purchased both through Amazon prime. Not sure if they were from the same batches.
> ...



Thanks for sharing that. I have no issues but it's good for the public who views this thread to consider.


----------



## superuser1

Yes i agree, even though i have been using it everyday for the past 3 months i have not faced any wobbly jacks. It would be good for anyone looking at the A5 to have the insight to check the jacks while purchasing it. I really do love the SQ or lack of SQ on the A5 and it pairs beautifully with the X5 III.


----------



## FiiO

poto said:


> Just wondering. Did anyone else run into problems with the jacks on the A5?
> I went through two of them.
> The first one I figured was a dud after using multiple line cables and headphones.
> Any touching of the cables caused me to spend minutes attempting get the cables to a position that wasn't cutting out audio in one headphone or the other or dropping sound quality, with either the headphone connector or the line connector.
> ...



Dear friend,

Sorry to hear about that. Please accept our sincere apology for bringing inconvenience to you. We will report to our engineers and have a look about this. Would you mind informing us your seller's name? Thank you in advanced!

Best regards


----------



## bms44974

poto said:


> Just wondering. Did anyone else run into problems with the jacks on the A5?
> I went through two of them.
> The first one I figured was a dud after using multiple line cables and headphones.
> Any touching of the cables caused me to spend minutes attempting get the cables to a position that wasn't cutting out audio in one headphone or the other or dropping sound quality, with either the headphone connector or the line connector.
> ...


I had similar problem with E12 (had to keep fiddling with the cable between X3 line out and E12 to maintain connectivity). It turned out to be the cable. It was difficult to diagnose the problem with continuity testing on the cable since the break was very position- and strain-dependent.


----------



## poto

First one was purchased on Amazon from All About Office.
Second one was also purchased on Amazon and it was from Electronics Expo
Both were purchased under prime for quick delivery.

-poto



FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Sorry to hear about that. Please accept our sincere apology for bringing inconvenience to you. We will report to our engineers and have a look about this. Would you mind informing us your seller's name? Thank you in advanced!
> 
> Best regards


----------



## poto

Unfortunately, it was both the in and out jacks.
I tried multiple line cords for the unput and multiple headphones also to include adapters.
(note, my opinion) It seemed like the jacks were basic soldered to the board and only thing limiting movement was the hardware case.
As previously stated, I have the x5 3rd gen and I don't experience any where near the movement of the jacks as I saw in both the A5s I experienced.

-poto



bms44974 said:


> I had similar problem with E12 (had to keep fiddling with the cable between X3 line out and E12 to maintain connectivity). It turned out to be the cable. It was difficult to diagnose the problem with continuity testing on the cable since the break was very position- and strain-dependent.


----------



## poto

Just went through and verified because Fiio asked, it was from two different sellers within amazon so I don't think the sold me back the same device.

-poto



Dobrescu George said:


> I had no problems with an A5 when I briefly heard one at AVstore. Maybe there is a bad batch out there that had those problems and you just happened to have two pieces from that same batch, or maybe the store sent the one you sent back...


----------



## Dobrescu George

poto said:


> Just went through and verified because Fiio asked, it was from two different sellers within amazon so I don't think the sold me back the same device.
> 
> -poto



That's interesting and good to know. Either way, you can always ask FiiO for a replacement since they're known to help their customers when something like this happens.


----------



## blackrain139

Hi guys

New owner of an A5 which I bought from Amazon.

Does anyone have a problem with clicking noise coming from turning on the unit?

If I twist the volume knob to switch it on, after 2 secs or so, there is a "click" coming from inside the unit

Likewise, if I turn it off, I can also hear a click after 2 secs coming from inside the unit.

Also, turning on or off with the volume button produces a "double click" sound.

I've owned the old A3 and it doesn't have this issue


----------



## ceemsc

blackrain139 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> New owner of an A5 which I bought from Amazon.
> 
> ...



That's the safety relay common with current headphone amps designed to prevent the power up/down of the amp damaging the headphone membranes.


----------



## blackrain139

@ceemsc Thanks for the explanation! I thought there was something wrong as I didn't have this issue with the older models


----------



## FiiO

blackrain139 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> New owner of an A5 which I bought from Amazon.
> 
> ...



Dear friend,

This is the sound of the relay. When you plug the headphone, the relay will make them connect to avoid the impulse sound. But we didn't add the relay in the A3. 

Best regards


----------



## macky112

Hi all I want to know if it's a good buy to get e12a iem special edition for $70 comparing to a3 and a5 in terms of value?


----------



## Dobrescu George

macky112 said:


> Hi all I want to know if it's a good buy to get e12a iem special edition for $70 comparing to a3 and a5 in terms of value?



Depends, if you can get E12A for 70$, it is a good option! A5 is better, considerably better when I heard it, but I don't own one and without having one in my hands it is hard to say, but I remember that it is better than E12, E12A or A3!


----------



## SixthFall

Just got my a5 in and paired it up with my plunge audio analog producers. Pretty awesome amp and completely mops the floor with my old c421.


----------



## Ver JJ

SixthFall said:


> Just got my a5 in and paired it up with my plunge audio analog producers. Pretty awesome amp and completely mops the floor with my old c421.



I know I had asked this question tons of times, in your opinion, does the Fiio A5 change the original sound signature of your source?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Ver JJ said:


> I know I had asked this question tons of times, in your opinion, does the Fiio A5 change the original sound signature of your source?



A5 should be somewhat smooth and transparent, knowing that it relies on MUSES 02 which are fairly musical and smooth on the top end. 

Do you want something to spice up your original source signature? I have not heard a single AMP that doesn't change something so far, literally all of them had a signature of their own, but they all are fairly transparent and FiiO AMPs in general have been pretty good in my experience.


----------



## Ver JJ

Dobrescu George said:


> A5 should be somewhat smooth and transparent, knowing that it relies on MUSES 02 which are fairly musical and smooth on the top end.
> 
> Do you want something to spice up your original source signature? I have not heard a single AMP that doesn't change something so far, literally all of them had a signature of their own, but they all are fairly transparent and FiiO AMPs in general have been pretty good in my experience.



Huh, interesting...well it seems like I will always get the same impression out of everyone about this unit, of course I will still prefer to have the "Saber Glare" sound from my Aune m1s to be unchanged but I hate controlling volume by using button..... that is why I opt for an amp that uses potentiometer. Thank you very much and also sorry for troubling you for replying the same question over and over again.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Ver JJ said:


> Huh, interesting...well it seems like I will always get the same impression out of everyone about this unit, of course I will still prefer to have the "Saber Glare" sound from my Aune m1s to be unchanged but I hate controlling volume by using button..... that is why I opt for an amp that uses potentiometer. Thank you very much and also sorry for troubling you for replying the same question over and over again.



Don't worry about it! 

I'm glad to help! 

If you're looking for something more neutral, but with a volume wheel, maybe there are other AMPs that better suit your tastes. FiiO should be releasing more fun stuff soon as well. 

A5 does sound smooth and the energetic treble of ESS is much more alive throgh something like say, FiiO X7 + AM03 for example. 

Even so, A5 is probably the AMP I would recommend best at its price point, which is really low.


----------



## SixthFall

The a5 is pretty transparent. Not much color at all.


----------



## Ver JJ

Dobrescu George said:


> Don't worry about it!
> 
> I'm glad to help!
> 
> ...



Thank you very much...... well I will try to save my money a little right now.... hopefully Fiio will release a new amp soon because Fiio A5 has been lying for quite a while.



SixthFall said:


> The a5 is pretty transparent. Not much color at all.



Noted, thank you.


----------



## coolcrew23

hi i just want to ask. i currently have hd6xx that i use with a dragonfly red and a schiit vali 1. i want to ask if adding the fiio a5 is an upgrade to my system or just a sidegrade. my mobile gear is a fiio x5iii


----------



## Dobrescu George

coolcrew23 said:


> hi i just want to ask. i currently have hd6xx that i use with a dragonfly red and a schiit vali 1. i want to ask if adding the fiio a5 is an upgrade to my system or just a sidegrade. my mobile gear is a fiio x5iii



It would really depend on what sound you're gong for with your setup, A5 might be an awesome upgrade if you like its sound.


----------



## artnoi

Hey guys I'm currently using Fiio A5 and just got myself a Beyer DT990 250 ohm.
Will I be able to pair it with my new cans? Is the A5 powerful enough to drive my Beyers at low gain?
I dont know much about the distortion in high gain (I dont hear it), but since many sites suggest using low gain whenever possible, I really hesitate to switch to high gain when I listen to some quiet tracks (eg tracks with high DR). Any of you here use the A5 at high gain?? And with what cans


----------



## Dobrescu George

artnoi said:


> Hey guys I'm currently using Fiio A5 and just got myself a Beyer DT990 250 ohm.
> Will I be able to pair it with my new cans? Is the A5 powerful enough to drive my Beyers at low gain?
> I dont know much about the distortion in high gain (I dont hear it), but since many sites suggest using low gain whenever possible, I really hesitate to switch to high gain when I listen to some quiet tracks (eg tracks with high DR). Any of you here use the A5 at high gain?? And with what cans



I always listen to high gain on everything and never noticed a problem! You should listen and enjoy what sounds best to your own ears!


----------



## coolcrew23

Dobrescu George said:


> It would really depend on what sound you're gong for with your setup, A5 might be an awesome upgrade if you like its sound.




Basically I want to upgrade my Schiit Vali. Would the Fiio A5 be an upgrade? In terms of power and how well it can drive my hd6xx?


----------



## Dobrescu George

coolcrew23 said:


> Basically I want to upgrade my Schiit Vali. Would the Fiio A5 be an upgrade? In terms of power and how well it can drive my hd6xx?



I would lie if I said I know the answer to that, never heard Vali or any Schiit product... 

On the other hand, I know that A5 is a great AMP and it has a fair chance to improve your already existing audio chain!


----------



## Brooko

The Vali is more powerful (1W into 32 ohms) compared to A5 (800mW into 32 ohms).

The A5s advantages are portability and also bass boost and gain control. 

Sonically (subjective) I hear it as pretty neutral - which is what an amp should be. 

If you're looking for a portable option - obviously the A5 wins. If you're solely looking at desktop use - there is no real advantage unless you need the bass boost, and you currently find Vali less than optimal in terms of noise etc

Ultimately decide based on use rather than sonics


----------



## jaxz

artnoi said:


> Hey guys I'm currently using Fiio A5 and just got myself a Beyer DT990 250 ohm.
> Will I be able to pair it with my new cans? Is the A5 powerful enough to drive my Beyers at low gain?
> I dont know much about the distortion in high gain (I dont hear it), but since many sites suggest using low gain whenever possible, I really hesitate to switch to high gain when I listen to some quiet tracks (eg tracks with high DR). Any of you here use the A5 at high gain?? And with what cans



Yes. The A5 drives my DT880 250 ohms perfectly on low gain. IMO, no need to use high gain. I can't hear any distortion on any gain setting on A5. It's a very good amp.


----------



## R_Swan

Just picked up an A5 from the forum, looking to pair it with my Fiio X3 2nd gen and my HD650's.  At my new office I can use my open backs pretty easily without bothering anyone, which is sweet.

Looking forward to trying this out!


----------



## Voxata

This is a great amp, I use it with a first gen X5 I got cheap and the sound from my heavily modded K702s is absolutely fantastic for a mobile setup.The A5 passes detail the E12 blurred. Synergy galore too!


----------



## artnoi

jaxz said:


> Yes. The A5 drives my DT880 250 ohms perfectly on low gain. IMO, no need to use high gain. I can't hear any distortion on any gain setting on A5. It's a very good amp.


Do you use it at full volume on low gain?
For me most tracks sound fine and loud enough at that point. If it's at full volume, then wouldn't that extreme volume introduce clipping?


----------



## jaxz

artnoi said:


> Do you use it at full volume on low gain?
> For me most tracks sound fine and loud enough at that point. If it's at full volume, then wouldn't that extreme volume introduce clipping?



No, low gain at full volume will be ear damaging level. Maybe your source it's a little weak? At 3:00 o'clock on low gain it's pretty loud. I can't go beyond that. No distortion heard at that level. The volume increase from low to high gain it's very pronunced so maybe you can let the amp on high gain fine tuning your desirable volume with the pot.


----------



## artnoi

My source is not weak at all. Maybe I just listen too loud lol.
I use Xduoo X3 which outputs 1.5Vrms to line out.
I set the volume pot to 4-5'o clock or more for dynamics-rich 16/44.1 tracks.
Some quiet Hi-Res aren't loud enough even at full volume on low gain.
Anyway, the pot stops at 7'o clock, right?


----------



## artnoi

Oh, and (un)fortunately I've had 2 Fiio A5s, both brand new, and one did have some defects (not sure if it's from channel imbalance or line in connector problem). Fiio Thailand (local distributor?) is now handling the matter for me.


----------



## Siddhant Merh

SalfordBoys said:


> A5 with the xduoo x3, anyone any thoughts as to how good a combo that would be?


Hey.. infact I'm thinking of that..


----------



## artnoi

So my A5's volume pot started to show crackling noise when being adjusted.
How do I fix it? Do I have to dissemble the unit to clean up the potentiometer or do I need a replacement? Thanks in advance


----------



## Dobrescu George

artnoi said:


> So my A5's volume pot started to show crackling noise when being adjusted.
> How do I fix it? Do I have to dissemble the unit to clean up the potentiometer or do I need a replacement? Thanks in advance



If the sound is clean while you're not adjusting the volume, then leave it like that, there's no defect and no problem


----------



## artnoi

Dobrescu George said:


> If the sound is clean while you're not adjusting the volume, then leave it like that, there's no defect and no problem


Thanks! Wont be worried then


----------



## Dobrescu George

artnoi said:


> Thanks! Wont be worried then



Seems that this happens on many devices that use an analogue ponetiometer, even when a very high end potentiometer is used, shouldn't cause any kind of problems for neither short term nor long term usage 

I hope you have fun with it in there!


----------



## Hijodelbrx

I've run across the same problem with my E12.  As well as my preamp in my rig.  just gently turn the volume control back and forth a dz. or so times and the problem should dissapear ('til the next time!)


----------



## Danger Mouse

Hi guys,

I thought I had just decided to buy the FiiO A5 to pair with my LG V20 smartphone as I want more power/volume to push my new Philips Fidelio X2's and I thought I could just use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable and then connect my headphones to the A5 but I've been reading through this thread and I've seen George mention that this isn't a good way to do it, double Amping etc...

If I get a USB OTG from my LG V20 I'm assuming this'll give me a line out clean signal to the A5, but am I correct in thinking that it won't have the sound signature from my phone's DAC?

So basically I'll get a flat lifeless signal from my LG V20 into another flat lifeless signal in the A5?

Is there a way around this? 

If I buy a DAP with a DAC will this still be a flat signal if it uses a Line Out? Or am I missing something here?

Thanks for any advice you can give


----------



## Ver JJ

Danger Mouse said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I thought I had just decided to buy the FiiO A5 to pair with my LG V20 smartphone as I want more power/volume to push my new Philips Fidelio X2's and I thought I could just use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable and then connect my headphones to the A5 but I've been reading through this thread and I've seen George mention that this isn't a good way to do it, double Amping etc...
> 
> ...



Line out will retain the sound signature of your phone (in this case) sound signature, what it does is just bypass the amp in your phone. (Correct me if I am wrong.)

In my honest opinion, the only reason I want to avoid double amping my source is because I don't like the sound of my source. To be more specific, the sound of the amp of my source. 

If you love the sound signature coming from your source then you want to keep in mind that double amping it will change the sound signature of source because there is an amp in fiio A5 too.

As for suggestion, I will recommend trying out Oppo HA-2se as it has the same DAC as your phone (better do double check yourself for confirmation), cheer.

Hope that the way I explained was understandable, don't hesitate to correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## etoilebiscuit

Danger Mouse said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I thought I had just decided to buy the FiiO A5 to pair with my LG V20 smartphone as I want more power/volume to push my new Philips Fidelio X2's and I thought I could just use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable and then connect my headphones to the A5 but I've been reading through this thread and I've seen George mention that this isn't a good way to do it, double Amping etc...
> 
> ...


you can try smth like the q1 mk2, its a dac/amp, usb in from ur phone to use the dac.


----------



## superuser1

Danger Mouse said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I thought I had just decided to buy the FiiO A5 to pair with my LG V20 smartphone as I want more power/volume to push my new Philips Fidelio X2's and I thought I could just use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable and then connect my headphones to the A5 but I've been reading through this thread and I've seen George mention that this isn't a good way to do it, double Amping etc...
> 
> ...



I dont think the A5 will have issues while double amping. However, if you get a DAC/amp then you wont be using the DAC on the V20 but bypassing that and using the DAC in the DAC/Amp combo. Now if i am correct in understanding, you do like the SQ on your LG V20? right? i dont see double amping degrading the SQ in anyway here however someone who can correct me is most welcome. I have used the A5 while double amping and it has never been a problem for me.


----------



## Danger Mouse

Thanks guys, and yes I do like the sound signature of the V20, I'm just concerned that having a digital only out into a clean amp will leave my music lifeless, I thought when using lineout it bypassed the DACs sound signature altogether? 

It looks like either I just try a connection from my headphone out to the A5 and see how it goes or I get a DAC/AMP and use that with my phone? 

One of the reasons I liked the look of the A5 was due to its power output, it seems higher than others at a similar cost? Apart from the K5, if that has a USB in then as I do most of my listening at home then I could use a mains powered AMP/DAC?


----------



## superuser1

Danger Mouse said:


> Thanks guys, and yes I do like the sound signature of the V20, I'm just concerned that having a digital only out into a clean amp will leave my music lifeless, I thought when using lineout it bypassed the DACs sound signature altogether?
> 
> It looks like either I just try a connection from my headphone out to the A5 and see how it goes or I get a DAC/AMP and use that with my phone?
> 
> One of the reasons I liked the look of the A5 was due to its power output, it seems higher than others at a similar cost? Apart from the K5, if that has a USB in then as I do most of my listening at home then I could use a mains powered AMP/DAC?



When using LO, it completely bypasses the amp stage of that particular device but doe use the DAC section.


----------



## Ver JJ

Danger Mouse said:


> Thanks guys, and yes I do like the sound signature of the V20, I'm just concerned that having a digital only out into a clean amp will leave my music lifeless, I thought when using lineout it bypassed the DACs sound signature altogether?
> 
> It looks like either I just try a connection from my headphone out to the A5 and see how it goes or I get a DAC/AMP and use that with my phone?
> 
> One of the reasons I liked the look of the A5 was due to its power output, it seems higher than others at a similar cost? Apart from the K5, if that has a USB in then as I do most of my listening at home then I could use a mains powered AMP/DAC?





superuser1 said:


> When using LO, it completely bypasses the amp stage of that particular device but doe use the DAC section.



Just to add it up, if it bypass the DAC "sound signature" it means that the DAC is not functioning at all................. this means that there will be no sound coming out from your source at all.................... DAC is the one responsible in processing the sound since it is a Digital to Analogue Converter which converts the binary code of your "song" to Analogue signal.................... cheer, just visit a local store to audition it because no matter how much we discuss about it or how bad we described it, in the end of the day it all goes down to your personal preference.........................


----------



## artnoi

Actually the 'Line Out' port was my reasons to purchase a DAP and a DAC.
Because of the 'double amping' issue I had to buy Fiio E17K to decode signals from my iPhone, MBP so that I can justify my subscription of Tidal Hi-Fi and the money paid for Hidizs AP60.
And because my then sources other than iPods didn't have LO port, I had to buy Xduoo X3.

Let me tell you my *mistake* this year for *deciding to go budget gears instead of higher-end*.

After I got myself so many cheap Chinese earbuds, I decided to have a Chinese DAP to reduce my iPhone storage usage. I got Hidizs AP60 but wasn't impressed at all because it sounds very colored/ distorted (rolled off bass) via HP port, so I think adding a USB DAC between it and the A5 would make AP60 less painful to own (I only use it for burning-in other equipments). Because of those problems I had to buy Xduoo X3 for less flawed sound and a LO port so that should it fail again like AP60 did, I can basically add an Amp and still have the benefit of X3 Cirrus house sound which I really like. Despite decently impressive sound quality, the X3 itself is flawed in some ways e.g. pitch error, horrible and sluggish UI, channel swap after fast forwarding, etc. I came to a conclusion: budget gears definitely have unacceptable (it's ****ing easy to fix) flaws in some ways. So I finally realized Budget-Fi aren't for me and moved up to Mid-Fi range (again, after dwelling in this sector for years with MS1i and JH/AK Michelle) and got myself Beyer DT990 and MS Pro which was the main reason for the purchase of A5. 
I should have spent all the money I paid for AP60, X3, E17K for a decent DAP from a reputable manufacturer. That DAP would give me more beautiful and smaller form factor, UI, warranty, financial liquidity, and because the signal travels less, the SQ maybe better than the route I'm taking.. (Nice DAP alone or Nice DAP+A5 instead of AP60+E17K+A5)

Luckily E17K DAC department doesn't color the sound much compared to when it's used as DAC+Amp combo.
I'm currently using A5 with iPods with 30-pin connector, and Xduoo X3 via LO while waiting for E17K.

Sorry for digression, though I dont feel guilt lol


----------



## bms44974

Does the LG V20 even have a line-out? Can the headphone port be configured in software to serve this function?


----------



## Danger Mouse

I think the V20 has line out via USB OTG, but I'll have to double check that?


----------



## Ver JJ

bms44974 said:


> Does the LG V20 even have a line-out? Can the headphone port be configured in software to serve this function?





Danger Mouse said:


> I think the V20 has line out via USB OTG, but I'll have to double check that?



Just to correct it, when you connect a DAC to your V20 via micro usb or usb type c, the DAC built in the V20 will be bypassed however the "DAC" of your DAC will be used.......... "Line out" basically means bypassing the internal amp of your source.


----------



## bms44974

That was basically my question. Line-out is an analog signal configured to mimic the pre-amp output. The V20 wound need a separate 3.5mm port for line-out (or an option in software to configure the amplified headphone-out port to bypass the amp and convert it to line-out) if one wanted to connect it to an amp only. I didn't see a second 3.5mm port in online images so was wondering if such a software option was available. Just curious...


----------



## Dobrescu George

As far as my knowledge goes, V20 doesn't have any option it setting for a line out, so you'd be double amping it's heapdhone output signal.


----------



## Brooko

If the headphone out is clean (and all I hear about is what a great "audiophile" phone it is), then double amping doesn't mean "jack" (pardon the pun).  Its only an issue if you're further amping a noisy input.  So I can't see the issue personally.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Brooko said:


> If the headphone out is clean (and all I hear about is what a great "audiophile" phone it is), then double amping doesn't mean "jack" (pardon the pun).  Its only an issue if you're further amping a noisy input.  So I can't see the issue personally.



If we want to be technical, the THD can only grow when amping an amped signal. 

Not having heard that phone in particular, I won't comment on it, but I heard most phones and LG phones, and was not that impressed. Maybe some of them could reach the level of a fiio x1 in a good day, but to date no phone reaches the Sonic level of HiFiMAN Megamini or x3ii, nevermind other levels of detail, clarity, separation between instruments and such. It is kinda like some phones, or most, are noisy. 

Again, V20 might be an exception, but I wouldn't recommend double amping it's signal if we compare the solution with getting a DAC or a dedicated DAP with Line Out.


----------



## Brooko

With respect George - neither you nor I have heard the LG - therefore we don't know.  And if you have a clean signal where the levels of THD are well below the threshold of audibility, and amplifying that signal still leaves the noise below the level of audibility - what does it matter?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Brooko said:


> With respect George - neither you nor I have heard the LG - therefore we don't know.  And if you have a clean signal where the levels of THD are well below the threshold of audibility, and amplifying that signal still leaves the noise below the level of audibility - what does it matter?



I mean, you are correct in this perspective. I will try to hear the phone when I have the chance, it Sparks my curiosity to hear so many audiophiles call it good sounding.


----------



## Pierre111

Dobrescu George said:


> As far as my knowledge goes, V20 doesn't have any option it setting for a line out, so you'd be double amping it's heapdhone output signal.


If I may, I would say that having a line out on a player is nice really, I don't want to kill anybody's vibe when looking for this option, but in my opinion as Brooko say in real life double amping don't mean anything really. Phone headphone outputs are designed to act as a line driver when connected to a line in. A line in has an impedance that is so much larger than a pair of headphone that the gain of the amp is negligible, so you are not really "double amping".  Line out just mean bypassing the opamp but to be technical the output signal of a phone out is still an unamped line level signal. It's a misconception that it will amplify the noise. Of course this is just generally speaking and some outputs are not designed to feed a line in but in a lot of case it is. I wouldn't worry about pluggin a LG V20 in a line input of anything.


----------



## ceemsc

Pierre111 said:


> If I may, I would say that having a line out on a player is nice really, I don't want to kill anybody's vibe when looking for this option, but in my opinion as Brooko say in real life double amping don't mean anything really. Phone headphone outputs are designed to act as a line driver when connected to a line in. A line in has an impedance that is so much larger than a pair of headphone that the gain of the amp is negligible, so you are not really "double amping".  Line out just mean bypassing the opamp but to be technical the output signal of a phone out is still an unamped line level signal. It's a misconception that it will amplify the noise. Of course this is just generally speaking and some outputs are not designed to feed a line in but in a lot of case it is. I wouldn't worry about pluggin a LG V20 in a line input of anything.



Sorry to throw another perspective into the mix but in my experience double amping even low noise amps in series  (IBasso D14 -> FiiO E12/A5) adds audible noise which sounds like clipping in the case of a sine wave or piano harshness in the example of Ryan Farish music. This is because the 1st amp is sending out current as well as voltage designed to drive headphones not increase the line signal for another amp.

Of course double-amping is unavoidable in pre-amp/power-amp setups or if you hook your rig to the car but audio purists would want to avoid this for quality listening.


----------



## Pierre111

ceemsc said:


> Sorry to throw another perspective into the mix but in my experience double amping even low noise amps in series  (IBasso D14 -> FiiO E12/A5) adds audible noise which sounds like clipping in the case of a sine wave or piano harshness in the example of Ryan Farish music. This is because the 1st amp is sending out current as well as voltage designed to drive headphones not increase the line signal for another amp.
> 
> Of course double-amping is unavoidable in pre-amp/power-amp setups or if you hook your rig to the car but audio purists would want to avoid this for quality listening.


You are correct, I am talking mainly about the headphone outputs of phones. Your D14 has an output power about 40 times larger than most phones. In that case I agree that you are right. current is the issue not voltage The LG V20 don't release their output power  but they use the Amp embedded in the ES9018P DAC chip . It's safe to assume since this chip was designed for HIFI "mobile" that it's not that powerful but I don't know.  It state  2 V RMS output voltage. Line level output operates at less than that nominally but thats in the range of operation of a line out. Just for complement, we know here that headphones impedance are typically, if not always under 600 ohms. Line in have well above 10K ohms Impedence. So that extra current needed to drive headphones is not that significant but again, in most cases, not all.


----------



## haoyuan

anybody caught the Fiio A5 going for 40 bucks on Amazon few days back?  Shipped and sold by reputable dealer with prime shipping.


----------



## Blazer39

haoyuan said:


> anybody caught the Fiio A5 going for 40 bucks on Amazon few days back?  Shipped and sold by reputable dealer with prime shipping.



i saw that too, however the dealer had one review and it was one star..i dunno if (reputable) is a good way to describe it


----------



## haoyuan (Aug 3, 2017)

Blazer39 said:


> i saw that too, however the dealer had one review and it was one star..i dunno if (reputable) is a good way to describe it


Not that one.  Another one, sold by a camera store, for 39.99.  I guess it sold out quickly.  Last I checked there was 16 left, I snagged a few myself.  Got them in the mail a couple of days ago.


----------



## Blazer39

haoyuan said:


> Not that one.  Another one, sold by a camera store, for 39.99.  I guess it sold out quickly.  Last I checked there was 16 left, I snagged a few myself.  Got them in the mail a couple of days ago.



damn..that was sold way fast, i missed it


----------



## JWolf

I would have snagged one had I seen the listing.


----------



## Tetonpowskier

When using my A5 with a HE-400, I have to use the High Gain setting to get any volume change. When using the low gain, it doesnt sound any different from my phone.

Is this normal? I just got it.


----------



## artnoi

with DT880 250Ohm, max vol on low gain is still louder than max vol on my iPhone.
Max vol on iPod classic is as loud as 10-11 o'clock volume position on low gain. Just approximation tho.

Low gain on A5 doesn't add gain to the signal so the signal is just the same as your source, but with increased power as the volume goes up.
High gain however amplifies signal like the way you add gain to a track on audio editting  software. The sound becomes louder and that's why it's louder than it is on low gain at the same volume, and since the signal has been amplified, it is more prone to clipping if you add gain to the already loud track and the resulting signal is beyond your amp's limit



Tetonpowskier said:


> When using my A5 with a HE-400, I have to use the High Gain setting to get any volume change. When using the low gain, it doesnt sound any different from my phone.
> 
> Is this normal? I just got it.


----------



## Tetonpowskier

Is this normal? Should I have to put the amp to High gain to bring out the punch in my Orthodynamics? 

I dont remember my old E12 being that way..


----------



## FiiO

Tetonpowskier said:


> When using my A5 with a HE-400, I have to use the High Gain setting to get any volume change. When using the low gain, it doesnt sound any different from my phone.
> 
> Is this normal? I just got it.


Dear friend,

How do you collect the A5 with your player? You are talking about the sound level or the sound quality?

Best regards


----------



## artnoi

Actually low and high gain settings shouldn't sound different if the volume is properly matched, and high gain has somehow greater distortion that you may or may not detect. (This has been expressed in A5's measurements on Fiio.net , I believe)
This is why you'd stick to the lowest gain possible unless it ain't loud enough.


----------



## Pedro Oliveira

As anyone had both the original e12 and the a5 at the same time?

 Is it worth the upgrade (sidegrade)? Right now i havê the e12 to power my hd600s and since i can get a a5 for 40 euros i would like to know if this trade is worth the bother....


----------



## ceemsc

Pedro Oliveira said:


> As anyone had both the original e12 and the a5 at the same time?
> 
> Is it worth the upgrade (sidegrade)?



Yes & Yes.

This is a subjective view & reliant on not just my own experience but on the experimentation of others who came up with the MUSES02 combination.


----------



## Pedro Oliveira

ceemsc said:


> Yes & Yes.
> 
> This is a subjective view & reliant on not just my own experience but on the experimentation of others who came up with the MUSES02 combination.


Ok.... but why is it better? What makes it worth enough to sell a perfectly fine e12 and get a a5?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Pedro Oliveira said:


> Ok.... but why is it better? What makes it worth enough to sell a perfectly fine e12 and get a a5?



The tonality is different. 

A5 might be a tad more revealing, detalied, it is considerably smoother and the background is blacker. 

I don't necessarily recommend A5 over E12 because I like the energetic top end of E12, but many people, or most people like A5 a bit better, and E12 was a bit hissy in direct comparison, A5 is dead silent to those ears.


----------



## ceemsc

Pedro Oliveira said:


> Ok.... but why is it better? What makes it worth enough to sell a perfectly fine e12 and get a a5?



I didn't sell my E12, it is a good amp & it became part of my mobile watching YouTube while performing chores rig. 

Comparatively the A5's soundstage is wider, there is no low volume hiss & no buzzing when using while charging making it a true upgrade in practical terms.


----------



## Pedro Oliveira

Dobrescu George said:


> The tonality is different.
> 
> A5 might be a tad more revealing, detalied, it is considerably smoother and the background is blacker.
> 
> I don't necessarily recommend A5 over E12 because I like the energetic top end of E12, but many people, or most people like A5 a bit better, and E12 was a bit hissy in direct comparison, A5 is dead silent to those ears.



The build is better on the e12 or the a5? Battery life? I dont think there is much sense in keeping both.... my idea was to sell the e12 and get the a5 since i can get a mint a5 for 40 euros wich is pretty cheap. I think i can easilly sell my e12 for 40 euros or more as well so if its really worh it, why not? 

I will mostly use it to power my hd600s and maybe a hd650 soon.... wich would be better for this 2 headphones?
I know they deserve better amps but i am not much of na amp spending guy and usually i like mobile stuff....


----------



## Dobrescu George

Pedro Oliveira said:


> The build is better on the e12 or the a5? Battery life? I dont think there is much sense in keeping both.... my idea was to sell the e12 and get the a5 since i can get a mint a5 for 40 euros wich is pretty cheap. I think i can easilly sell my e12 for 40 euros or more as well so if its really worh it, why not?
> 
> I will mostly use it to power my hd600s and maybe a hd650 soon.... wich would be better for this 2 headphones?
> I know they deserve better amps but i am not much of na amp spending guy and usually i like mobile stuff....



Build quality is excellent on both, and the battery life is good on both - I don't know where it is better. 

I'm not sure what to advice, they have different tonalities, it'd be best to test if you can. HD650 is kinda smooth already, E12 gives it some energy, A5 will further make it smoother.


----------



## Pedro Oliveira (Sep 28, 2017)

Dobrescu George said:


> Build quality is excellent on both, and the battery life is good on both - I don't know where it is better.
> 
> I'm not sure what to advice, they have different tonalities, it'd be best to test if you can. HD650 is kinda smooth already, E12 gives it some energy, A5 will further make it smoother.


Drive the hd600 or 650 from a e12 is too much wasted potential....? Still debating if i should buy or not the hd650.... Havê a pending deal for my 2.0 momentum right now (not that i dont like them bit for portable i mostly use my hd25s and lately i barely use headphones outsider the house) 150 euros is a nice entry to buy a hd650 but at the same time i dont know if its worth it since i already havê the hd600 and the Fidélio x2....

Wich do you like more George? Wich would you recomend for Simeone who mostly listens to metal, indie rock, prog and trance?

Wich do you think is the best all rounder PF the 2 senns?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Pedro Oliveira said:


> Drive the hd600 or 650 from a e12 is too much wasted potential....? Still debating if i should buy or not the hd650.... Havê a pending deal for my 2.0 momentum right now (not that i dont like them bit for portable i mostly use my hd25s and lately i barely use headphones outsider the house) 150 euros is a nice entry to buy a hd650 but at the same time i dont know if its worth it since i already havê the hd600 and the Fidélio x2....



Well, it is different for everybody. I prefer HD600 by a large margin 

For 150 Eur, HD650 is a very good deal though 

Also, I don't think that it is wasted potential, A5 and E12 can make HD650 shine pretty well! Not exactly at the same level as iDSD BL for example, but I like how E12 combines with HD600 quite a bit, and do recommend the pairing if you're on a budget!


----------



## Brooko

HD600 and HD650 are both surprisingly easy to drive.  They don't need a huge amount of either voltage or current.  They are actually pretty sensitive despite the 300ohm impedance.  The A5 will put out 150 mW into 300 ohms at a peak to peak voltage of 15 Vp-p and 250 mA.  E12 has similar power output.  Its actually more powerful than the O2 amp, and look how many people were using that as desktop amp to drive their HD600/650.


----------



## up209d

My A5 has very small sound in the output, much smaller than E02i Rocky, even smaller than my ATH M50x standalone, i have to rotate the dial to max to get the same amount of 75% of M50x standalone, but the sound quality is collapsed hence too much gain, anyone has the same experience with me? I think i got the faulty A5.


----------



## Brooko

up209d said:


> My A5 has very small sound in the output, much smaller than E02i Rocky, even smaller than my ATH M50x standalone, i have to rotate the dial to max to get the same amount of 75% of M50x standalone, but the sound quality is collapsed hence too much gain, anyone has the same experience with me? I think i got the faulty A5.




Its faulty - unless your source is using variable line-out and you have it turned too low.  The A5 is a powerhouse. It would drive the ATHM50X to levels above 100 dB.


----------



## Pedro Oliveira (Oct 1, 2017)

Dobrescu George said:


> Well, it is different for everybody. I prefer HD600 by a large margin
> 
> For 150 Eur, HD650 is a very good deal though
> 
> Also, I don't think that it is wasted potential, A5 and E12 can make HD650 shine pretty well! Not exactly at the same level as iDSD BL for example, but I like how E12 combines with HD600 quite a bit, and do recommend the pairing if you're on a budget!


Thank you George. 

But would you say the hd600 is a better all rounder? Wich would you pick for metal or edm and why?

Havê you ever tried the Fidélio x2 by the way? If yes wich sounds closer to the x2, the 600 or the 650?

Cheers


----------



## Dobrescu George

up209d said:


> My A5 has very small sound in the output, much smaller than E02i Rocky, even smaller than my ATH M50x standalone, i have to rotate the dial to max to get the same amount of 75% of M50x standalone, but the sound quality is collapsed hence too much gain, anyone has the same experience with me? I think i got the faulty A5.





Brooko said:


> Its faulty - unless your source is using variable line-out and you have it turned too low.  The A5 is a powerhouse. It would drive the ATHM50X to levels above 100 dB.



I will echo what Paul said, A5 has tons of power, would blow your ears at 75% with m50x, especially as m50x is not particulary hard to drive...


----------



## Dobrescu George

Pedro Oliveira said:


> Thank you George.
> 
> But would you say the hd600 is a better all rounder? Wich would you pick for metal or edm and why?
> 
> ...



HD600 works better with metal and EDM for me because I prefer their enahcned top end - HD650 takes some of the sparkle away, and I really like that sparkle. If you're looking for a more svelt sound, HD600 is generally better than HD650 and I don't think you have to worry about it in any way 

While I noticed major differences between the hd600 and the hd650 I tested, some folks don't notice as big differences, so there might be some variation out there, maybe between different years of production or mnaybe between how used each was when I tested them 

Unfortunately, I don't think I ever heard X2 so far, so I cannot comment on their sound...


----------



## Pedro Oliveira

Dobrescu George said:


> HD600 works better with metal and EDM for me because I prefer their enahcned top end - HD650 takes some of the sparkle away, and I really like that sparkle. If you're looking for a more svelt sound, HD600 is generally better than HD650 and I don't think you have to worry about it in any way
> 
> While I noticed major differences between the hd600 and the hd650 I tested, some folks don't notice as big differences, so there might be some variation out there, maybe between different years of production or mnaybe between how used each was when I tested them
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't think I ever heard X2 so far, so I cannot comment on their sound...


Thank you once again 

I already havê a hd600 and a Fidélio x2. I just wanted a bit more punch and rumble on the hd600... Also since i like the over ear momentum and many people compare it to the hd650....Basically i AM just trying to find reasons to justify a hd650 purchase and if it is worth having both the hd600 and 650 at the same time.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Pedro Oliveira said:


> Thank you once again
> 
> I already havê a hd600 and a Fidélio x2. I just wanted a bit more punch and rumble on the hd600... Also since i like the over ear momentum and many people compare it to the hd650....Basically i AM just trying to find reasons to justify a hd650 purchase and if it is worth having both the hd600 and 650 at the same time.



I honestly think that it might be better worth to invest in a more different headphone, maybe a HE-560? HD650 is a bit too close to HD600 to justify its price as much as a considerably different headphone would


----------



## FiiO

up209d said:


> My A5 has very small sound in the output, much smaller than E02i Rocky, even smaller than my ATH M50x standalone, i have to rotate the dial to max to get the same amount of 75% of M50x standalone, but the sound quality is collapsed hence too much gain, anyone has the same experience with me? I think i got the faulty A5.


Seems have received the mail you sent. Please have a check. This may be abnormal. Sorry.

Best regards


----------



## JWolf

Pedro Oliveira said:


> Still debating if i should buy or not the hd650



You might want to look into the new Sennsheiser HD660 S.

http://en-uk.sennheiser.com/headphones-audiophile-high-end-hd-660-s
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/headphones-audiophile-high-end-hd-660-s


----------



## GrussGott

Would the A5 drive a 13 ohm impedance HP?  I'm looking for a cheap amp (don't necessarily need a DAC) to drive a 13ohm HP.


----------



## Brooko

Which headphone - impedance isn't the whole story .......


----------



## GrussGott

Thanks!  It's the mrspeakers aeon flux, a planear


----------



## Brooko

Ah - OK.  They are quite low impedance and very low sensitivity, and unfortunately I have no experience with planars.  Suggest trying the Mr Speakers thread, and giving them this information (http://www.fiio.net/en/products/59/parameters) and see if anyone has actual experience with the A5.  It is quite a powerful portable amp, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't able to drive them decently (14.96 Vp-p peak voltage and 250 mA max current output).  It will put 800 mW into a 32ohm load - so it should be enough, even at that low sensitivity.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Altough Planars tend to eat a lot of juice, A5 has been able to drive some of the Audeze headphones I tried with it pretty well


----------



## TjPhysicist

Hey guys, I'm considering buying this amp for use with my xdp-30r. Quick question for those of you who have paired this with X5 3rd gen, i understand that the A5 added on sounds a bit better? Or at least gives it a bit more volume etc (both the X5 iii AND the xdp-30r sounded good but had not enough volume). 

That being said, if the main attraction for A5 is the increased audio quality due to more Watts and Voltage swing, why not just use Balanced X5 3rd gen? How much better is the A5 than X5 iii in balanced mode?


----------



## TjPhysicist

GrussGott said:


> Thanks!  It's the mrspeakers aeon flux, a planear


hey i just bought the A5 (on the way) to try with the AEONs. From what i can tell on paper, A5 should be able to swing way more voltage than the AEONs require, and it would certainly be an improvement in terms of pure Watts pushed through from say X5 (iirc). I'm still not sure though, will let you know what I find out. 

THe aeons, though low impedence, being planars are quite hard to drive: deceptively so IMO. AFAIK, it's not the Vp-p as much as the mA that the Amp can push through. 

I currently have the XDP-30r which is similar price point to the X5 iii, to my ears though both sound good, they need more "power" (or current, as the case may be), even at max volume and high gain.


----------



## Dobrescu George

TjPhysicist said:


> Hey guys, I'm considering buying this amp for use with my xdp-30r. Quick question for those of you who have paired this with X5 3rd gen, i understand that the A5 added on sounds a bit better? Or at least gives it a bit more volume etc (both the X5 iii AND the xdp-30r sounded good but had not enough volume).
> 
> That being said, if the main attraction for A5 is the increased audio quality due to more Watts and Voltage swing, why not just use Balanced X5 3rd gen? How much better is the A5 than X5 iii in balanced mode?



Well... I like A5 much better because it has better treble, by a large margin. X5-3 was far too smooth for me, A5 really fixes that.


----------



## TjPhysicist

Dobrescu George said:


> Well... I like A5 much better because it has better treble, by a large margin. X5-3 was far too smooth for me, A5 really fixes that.


do you mean that you get more pronounced/discernable dynamic range with the A5?


----------



## Dobrescu George

TjPhysicist said:


> do you mean that you get more pronounced/discernable dynamic range with the A5?



The dynamic range is much less of a problem rather than the top end extension, X5-3 is.... rolled off in the treble for me 

A5 is much better in this aspect, it has a linear response and it sounds much much clearer.


----------



## golfinggino

I am using the a5 with the x5 3rd gen and it sounds great with my isine 10's,  I recently picked up the hifiman edition x v2 and it sounds amazing off this fiio combo - it sounds even better then my jds labs the element running off my surface book with foobar2000, I am really impressed with the fiio combo and would highly recommend it


----------



## abesh

Hey guys,

Just got a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 880s and I am considering the A5 to power them. Will they make a good pair?

I know it is generally suggested to get a tube amp for the 880s but I would prefer something portable as I travel a lot for work.


----------



## jaxz

Hi, i have 880s 250 ohms. The A5 powers them fine at low gain. If your source it's a little weak maybe you will need high gain on A5.


----------



## abesh

jaxz said:


> Hi, i have 880s 250 ohms. The A5 powers them fine at low gain. If your source it's a little weak maybe you will need high gain on A5.


That's awesome to hear ! How does the DT880 sound with the A5 ?


----------



## jaxz

abesh said:


> That's awesome to hear ! How does the DT880 sound with the A5 ?



I feel, as other forum members, that this amp it's pretty transparent. You will hear 880s sound signature without any (audible) coloration. Of course, the DAC part of your chain it's gonna play a role here but IMO the sound differences between dacs chips are overrated if well implemented.

For desktop use, I use the  Project Ember 2.0 with RCA 6SN7 tube. It adds a touch of warmth to the sound I really like, specially in the mids.


----------



## 397324

TjPhysicist said:


> Hey guys, I'm considering buying this amp for use with my xdp-30r. Quick question for those of you who have paired this with X5 3rd gen, i understand that the A5 added on sounds a bit better? Or at least gives it a bit more volume etc (both the X5 iii AND the xdp-30r sounded good but had not enough volume).
> 
> That being said, if the main attraction for A5 is the increased audio quality due to more Watts and Voltage swing, why not just use Balanced X5 3rd gen? How much better is the A5 than X5 iii in balanced mode?




I've had a couple of Xiii, but never used them in balanced mode, but the balanced output has been canned by reviewers. Isn't it less powerful the the SE ouput?


----------



## alexandros a

I own E12A...and feel deeply satisfied as a pair with X3ii...
Is A5 sound wise an upgrade on E12A ??
Even a small upgrade or refinement would matter to me.....


----------



## 397324 (Nov 25, 2017)

How about getting an X5ii from eBay etc and keeping the E12A? I think its more of an upgrade going from the X3ii to X5ii than E12A to the A5. I had an E12A and it drove the Sennheiser HD650 really well, so you're not limited to IEMs and easily driven headphones.

Plus you have the added bonus of selling me the X3ii for use in the gym, because of its small size.


----------



## alexandros a

Darren Cotter said:


> How about getting an X5ii from eBay etc and keeping the E12A? I think its more of an upgrade going from the X3ii to X5ii than E12A to the A5. I had an E12A and it drove the Sennheiser HD650 really well, so you're not limited to IEMs and easily driven headphones.
> 
> Plus you have the added bonus of selling me the X3ii for use in the gym, because of its small size.


To be honest man....not thinking of selling that one ....pairs so well with E12a...
Just getting in a few days H4XX Plannar magnetics from massdrop and even a 32 ohm load there makes me a bit nervous...
BUT despite that with Icarus III (which ask for more power) iems in low gain E12a goes surprisingly well....


----------



## 397324

But if you pump a better signal into the E12A or any other amp, you will get a better sound at the other end.


----------



## 397324

AdvancedMP3Players.co.uk are offering a 20% discount on all FiiO products until 27/11 using discount code FiiO20BF.


----------



## alexandros a

Darren Cotter said:


> But if you pump a better signal into the E12A or any other amp, you will get a better sound at the other end.[/QUOT
> Even so.....if i could afford it right now i would go for Aune M1s and not for X5ii man...
> Furthermore its all very relevant and subjective hypothesis as sound concerned..
> Imean i came across opinions talking about bas synergy of E12A and DX80 ...
> ...


----------



## 397324

I appreciate you might not want to spend a lot more for your next upgrade at the moment, but an A5 is £109 and a second-hand X5ii is about £165 on eBay. Well, that's what mine cost a few weeks ago.

Also, you will get more money for your X3ii (£115?) than your E12A (70?) on the second-hand market, offsetting the cost of the X5ii.

All of the above is just purely based on money and not synergy, of course.


----------



## alexandros a

Darren Cotter said:


> I appreciate you might not want to spend a lot more for your next upgrade at the moment, but an A5 is £109 and a second-hand X5ii is about £165 on eBay. Well, that's what mine cost a few weeks ago.
> 
> Also, you will get more money for your X3ii (£115?) than your E12A (70?) on the second-hand market, offsetting the cost of the X5ii.
> 
> All of the above is just purely based on money and not synergy, of course.


Ain't gonna buy a second hand X5ii man...
No way....not gonna happen...
Let me just inform you that X5ii isnt exactly an upgrade on X3ii...
Many listeners could not tell a difference is blind sound tests....
But even if you consider those random evidence dap wise i would go for Aune M1s with close eyes.....or shozy alien. ..
I wan4 a different sound signature than fiio house sound....
Amp wise things are a bit different....
I do appreciate a lot E12A aoumd quality and i would even examine the chance to get another one just in case tge onw i have breaks down.... 
As for dap i so not think i need anothwr one right now.....maybe i ll just get F9pro risking a ahance to be similar to LZ A4 wich i got some months ago....


----------



## 397324 (Nov 25, 2017)

You said, "Let me just inform you that X5ii isn't exactly an upgrade on X3ii...". 

Having owned both, I can't agree. I like the X3ii and am currently looking for one to use at the gym, because of it's size, but I think the X5ii is a step up.


----------



## alexandros a

You took it the wrong way...
Didnt mean to be rude...either offensive here.... texting messages is risky ...and some times can lead to major misunderstanding ....my apologies for any inconvenience caused there...
Just expressing my opinion..


----------



## Arum16 (Nov 26, 2017)

Darren Cotter said:


> AdvancedMP3Players.co.uk are offering a 20% discount on all FiiO products until 27/11 using discount code FiiO20BF.


Thanks,
Nice. Was looking into one of these to drive just a HD6XX. That's a real bargain.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Apologies for the newbie question but can anyone tell me exactly what cables I need to connect this to my iPhone X. Been searching all morning and can’t seem to find a clear description. I think I need an Apple camera cable for sure. Anything else?Thanks very much.


----------



## antdroid (Dec 10, 2017)

clerkpalmer said:


> Apologies for the newbie question but can anyone tell me exactly what cables I need to connect this to my iPhone X. Been searching all morning and can’t seem to find a clear description. I think I need an Apple camera cable for sure. Anything else?Thanks very much.



The A5 is just an amp. You dont need the camera kit for it. It uses 3.5mm stereo male to line-in and outputs 3.5mm to headphones. You can just use your apple headphone adapter to the A5 and be good. it includes a small 3.5mm male-to-male cable already too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

antdroid said:


> The A5 is just an amp. You dont need the camera kit for it. It uses 3.5mm stereo male to line-in and outputs 3.5mm to headphones. You can just use your apple headphone adapter to the A5 and be good. it includes a small 3.5mm male-to-male cable already too.


Thanks. For some reason my google skills could not figure that out


----------



## UprightMan

sorry, reall dumb question.  What are the rubber mats that come with a5 for?  I assume they are to be used with the rubber bands to seperate your dap/amp maybe? 

I plan to use with my X7 and expect I'll use lock tite - just making sure i'm not missing a trick


----------



## chickenmoon (Dec 14, 2017)

UprightMan said:


> sorry, reall dumb question.  What are the rubber mats that come with a5 for?  I assume they are to be used with the rubber bands to seperate your dap/amp maybe?
> 
> I plan to use with my X7 and expect I'll use lock tite - just making sure i'm not missing a trick



That's what I use them for, prevents the two devices from scratching each other, can't really think about another use.


----------



## Heals

What are the chances that someone here has paired the A5 with the ZTE Axon 7? The reason I ask is I'm getting some strange behavior from my audio payback that is NOT present when I pair the A5 with my older Ipod Touch 5th Gen;

1) At the beginning of every single song, the first half a second of the audio is extremely distorted, then it goes on to play as normal (does not happen with ipod)
2) When switching songs, the relays cause audible popping noises in my headphones (does not happen with ipod)
3) Honestly, the music just sounds better on the Ipod...which I did not expect at all given its seemingly dated hardware

Anyone have any experience/ideas? Is it possible the output impedance of the Axon is causing these issues? 

One additional random question, is it normal to receive the A5 with the battery completely dead? Just want to check, maybe I'm used to phones that come with some charge.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## roshan_gh

Hi everybody
this is my first post in this great forum. 
from about 15 years ago I was listening to music with amateur gadjets like ipod touch, iphone, creative zen n200 and ... . now I just wanted to upgrade my equipment and a couple days ago I bought an ath-m50x headphone and a fiio a5 amp. also my player is iphone 5. 
surely A5 is great for headphone power and volume, but I think it would better to buy a dac/amp not just an amp. now my questions are that how are the quality of my equipment for litening to lossles formats? and if I bought a for example and AK-Jr player, wil I get better sound? and after buying it, do I need the A5 anymore?


----------



## haoyuan

roshan_gh said:


> Hi everybody
> this is my first post in this great forum.
> from about 15 years ago I was listening to music with amateur gadjets like ipod touch, iphone, creative zen n200 and ... . now I just wanted to upgrade my equipment and a couple days ago I bought an ath-m50x headphone and a fiio a5 amp. also my player is iphone 5.
> surely A5 is great for headphone power and volume, but I think it would better to buy a dac/amp not just an amp. now my questions are that how are the quality of my equipment for litening to lossles formats? and if I bought a for example and AK-Jr player, wil I get better sound? and after buying it, do I need the A5 anymore?



If you update the player you definitely will see an upgrade, if only from just using LO instead of PO.  YOu might or might not hear the difference depending on your headphones however I definitely use the A5 for anything about 100 ohms on my X7ii.


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## roshan_gh (Jan 24, 2018)

haoyuan said:


> If you update the player you definitely will see an upgrade, if only from just using LO instead of PO.  YOu might or might not hear the difference depending on your headphones however I definitely use the A5 for anything about 100 ohms on my X7ii.


Excuse me what's the meaning of LO or PO?
and one question I have thay does A5 change any quality of sound or it just only for higher volume to hear? ( my headphone audiotechnica ath-m50x is 38 impedance )


----------



## haoyuan

roshan_gh said:


> Excuse me what's the meaning of LO or PO?
> and one question I have thay does A5 change any quality of sound or it just only for higher volume to hear? ( my headphone audiotechnica ath-m50x is 38 impedance )



Line out vs phone out.

It will change the sound quality, though it really depends on whether you can hear it or not.  To me it's very noticeable even when driving sub 50 ohm headphones.  To be honest every element in the chain changes the sound (port, transport, interconnect, headphone cables, etc).


----------



## roshan_gh

haoyuan said:


> Line out vs phone out.
> 
> It will change the sound quality, though it really depends on whether you can hear it or not.  To me it's very noticeable even when driving sub 50 ohm headphones.  To be honest every element in the chain changes the sound (port, transport, interconnect, headphone cables, etc).


yes I think I need to train more my ears to notice the changes in the chain. then you recomend to keep my A5 even If I buy new player like AK JR?


----------



## haoyuan

roshan_gh said:


> yes I think I need to train more my ears to notice the changes in the chain. then you recomend to keep my A5 even If I buy new player like AK JR?



I wouldn't get the AKJR.  Assess what your needs really are before deciding on a player.  Chances are you will outgrow it really quickly.


----------



## roshan_gh

haoyuan said:


> I wouldn't get the AKJR.  Assess what your needs really are before deciding on a player.  Chances are you will outgrow it really quickly.


I'm a newbie in these things, then how about buying X5 3rd gen?for start I just need a player that I could feel diffrence between simple mp3 and 16,24 bit flacs.


----------



## superuser1

roshan_gh said:


> I'm a newbie in these things, then how about buying X5 3rd gen?for start I just need a player that I could feel diffrence between simple mp3 and 16,24 bit flacs.


You should get a DAC like the Fiio Q1 Mk 2 or something.


----------



## roshan_gh

superuser1 said:


> You should get a DAC like the Fiio Q1 Mk 2 or something.


I already have a A5 amp, and I want to remove the mobile phone from the chain and because of that I asked for a player that have good dac/amp. and in someway carrying that chain like a5,mobile,q1 would difficult. what do you suggest for a player ? in range of max 350$


----------



## superuser1

roshan_gh said:


> I already have a A5 amp, and I want to remove the mobile phone from the chain and because of that I asked for a player that have good dac/amp. and in someway carrying that chain like a5,mobile,q1 would difficult. what do you suggest for a player ? in range of max 350$


You can either look at the Cayin N5ii or the Shanling M3s. Both would have enough power for your M50x


----------



## FiiO

roshan_gh said:


> Excuse me what's the meaning of LO or PO?


Dear friend,

LO-Line out--an analog electrical signal not go thorgh the internal amplifer. Generally,  the volume from line out output is not adjustable. You would collect the lineout port to Amplifer before collecting to the headphone. 
PO-headphone output--an analog electrical signal go thorgh the internal amplifer. You could collect the headphone to that port directly.

Best regards


----------



## MROOD

i have a e12 mont blanc, if i buy the A5 will i notice an improvement in sound?

will it be louder or easier to drive my Amirons and M50x and Fostex tr70s?

Sometimes i feel the E12 doesnt hove enouph power to drive my cans,,, like if i connect my cans to my ZXR sound card this sounds much better than the E12

Just thinking if the A5 is worth upgrading to the A5???????????????????


----------



## WitzyZed (Mar 1, 2018)

MROOD said:


> i have a e12 mont blanc, if i buy the A5 will i notice an improvement in sound?
> 
> will it be louder or easier to drive my Amirons and M50x and Fostex tr70s?
> 
> ...



(Forgive me if I make minor mistakes in terminology here) I you have an OG Mont Blanc, into a 32 ohm load it supplies 880 mW, if you have an A5 it supplies 800 mW. So A5 is actually less powerful. Slightly. But it's using Muses 02 op amp instead of the LME49710. I recommend reading Brooko's review of the A5 he has a good chart (might be FiiO's) comparing the specs of all three.


----------



## MROOD

WitzyZed said:


> (Forgive me if I make minor mistakes in terminology here) I you have an OG Mont Blanc, into a 32 ohm load it supplies 880 mW, if you have an A5 it supplies 800 mW. So A5 is actually less powerful. Slightly. But it's using Muses 02 op amp instead of the LME49710. I recommend reading Brooke's review of the A5 he has a good chart (might be FiiO's) comparing the specs of all three.



hi

do you have the link?

basically i need to know if the A5 is an actually upgrade in terms of sound quality compared to the E12 MontBlanc, I used the mont blanc for over a year now and I believe the A5 may have a better sound quality in terms of clarity and bass.

But i dont want to buy it if it sounds the same, all ive researched so far that it has a better battery life, forget battery the sound is what im interested in..


----------



## WitzyZed (Mar 1, 2018)

MROOD said:


> hi
> 
> do you have the link?
> 
> ...



I can't seem to link directly to it, but it's the second review found here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amplifier.21888/reviews .

*Edit* As someone who owned an E12 Mont Blanc then an E12A afterwards, you're going to get a black background, very clean "wire with gain" is all an amp needs to be. The bass boost is also centered lower than the OG E12.


----------



## 397324 (Mar 23, 2018)

There's an "Open Box" deal on a FiiO A5 here for £55.84:

https://www.advancedmp3players.co.u...one_Amplifier_Black.15044.html#pClearance8032


----------



## soumya.banerjee

I haven't been using my A5 despite buying it in 2016 - just hate the Muses02 signature. Why give such a coloured, warm OPAMP that has no definition and articulation.
So thought of doing some mods - to begin with replacing the Muses02 with a DIP 8 pin socket. Thereafter I put LME49720NA. Together with current buffer LME49600, the clarity of this combo is breath-taking.
One thing I noticed about A5 is that it sounds correctly damped only with 1V rms LINE OUTs, with anything above ~ 1.4V rms, it sounds over-driven, dynamics are crunched and sound harsh.

Some pics of my mod. It's funny just by the sheer difference between Muses02 and 49720, A5 sounds like a completely different product altogether.


----------



## MROOD

well after a bit of research it seems that the CAYIN c5 is better than the A5, its has a wider sound stage and a punchy bassline and its the same price...

Anyone owned a cayin c5?


----------



## TidalWave (Mar 27, 2018)

I haven't used an A5 but I do have Cayin C5.  I used to read reviews for both back when I was making a choice.  I use C5 mostly on high gain mode (with Audeze SINE headphones which like extra power), and there is a coloring to the sound signature on high gain.  The sound, compared to the original source, is warmer, more powerful overall (more impact for everything), highs are slightly reduced.  Soundstage is good, feels better than source soundstage.  The bass boost ends up boosting lower mids too (can be a bit boomy), which you may or may not like, but if you have an equalizer in your player, then you can tone it down to taste.  My phone's output was already on the warm side with mids recessed, so I did not like it with C5 combo.  My iPad + C5 was okay, but I liked it as is.  Now that I got a Shanling M3s player and combined it with C5, I LOVE the result.  Shanling M3s is detailed, bright, and kind of clinical, particularly in the lows--Cayin C5 gives it a very lively boost--I feel like I'm inside the music rather than just listening to it playing nearby.  Mids and highs are just where I want them to be, and everything seems better balanced (subjectively).

I actually had put the amp on the classifieds recently because I just hate using an extra item in addition to a player (phone or DAP), it's a hindrance.  But I love the sound so much, I might keep it and "suffer" the inconvenience.

Anyway, if you like how your DAP/phone sounds without modification, go for A5--it's supposed to be more neutral, and the bass boost does not affect lower mids, if you prefer that / don't have EQ.  If you want a more rounded, warmer, powerful sound, Cayin C5 might be a good fit for you.  I chose C5 because I was not happy with my phone and wanted to see how I could affect the sound beyond just amplifying it.  Turned out I needed a better DAP (or DAC/amp).


----------



## MROOD

TidalWave said:


> I haven't used an A5 but I do have Cayin C5.  I used to read reviews for both back when I was making a choice.  I use C5 mostly on high gain mode (with Audeze SINE headphones which like extra power), and there is a coloring to the sound signature on high gain.  The sound, compared to the original source, is warmer, more powerful overall (more impact for everything), highs are slightly reduced.  Soundstage is good, feels better than source soundstage.  The bass boost ends up boosting lower mids too (can be a bit boomy), which you may or may not like, but if you have an equalizer in your player, then you can tone it down to taste.  My phone's output was already on the warm side with mids recessed, so I did not like it with C5 combo.  My iPad + C5 was okay, but I liked it as is.  Now that I got a Shanling M3s player and combined it with C5, I LOVE the result.  Shanling M3s is detailed, bright, and kind of clinical, particularly in the lows--Cayin C5 gives it a very lively boost--I feel like I'm inside the music rather than just listening to it playing nearby.  Mids and highs are just where I want them to be, and everything seems better balanced (subjectively).
> 
> I actually had put the amp on the classifieds recently because I just hate using an extra item in addition to a player (phone or DAP), it's a hindrance.  But I love the sound so much, I might keep it and "suffer" the inconvenience.
> 
> Anyway, if you like how your DAP/phone sounds without modification, go for A5--it's supposed to be more neutral, and the bass boost does not affect lower mids, if you prefer that / don't have EQ.  If you want a more rounded, warmer, powerful sound, Cayin C5 might be a good fit for you.  I chose C5 because I was not happy with my phone and wanted to see how I could affect the sound beyond just amplifying it.  Turned out I needed a better DAP (or DAC/amp).



ahh thanks i will order a C5 this week as I think it will be enough to use my HD650s and my fostex over ear headphones.


thanks


----------



## scott s

So is there a consensus on using the a5 with a phone that has a good hi Fi DAC but only a headphone out. No dedicated line out. I do not hear any noise with my phones headphone out but it won't power dt770 250 ohm cans for sure. I doubt it will power the 80 ohm either to full potential!


----------



## ceemsc

scott s said:


> So is there a consensus on using the a5 with a phone that has a good hi Fi DAC but only a headphone out. No dedicated line out. I do not hear any noise with my phones headphone out but it won't power dt770 250 ohm cans for sure. I doubt it will power the 80 ohm either to full potential!



Surely you would like to think a 800+mW amp could drive 250 ohm even 600 ohm headphones?

Is distortion or lack of volume heard with the A5?

Even lower powered amps should be able to drive 250 ohms albeit with less Damping Factor.


----------



## scott s

I am talking about the fact my phone itself does not have a dedicated line out. I will need to use the headphone out to the a5 input. I don't think there will be a problem with "double amping"
I am stating that I hear no noise out of my headphones out on my phone even when volume is cranked. Phone has a nice akm dac chip.
I am sure the a5 will drive the dt770 250 ohm easily. The a3 probably would also!?


----------



## ceemsc

scott s said:


> I am talking about the fact my phone itself does not have a dedicated line out. I will need to use the headphone out to the a5 input. I don't think there will be a problem with "double amping"
> I am stating that I hear no noise out of my headphones out on my phone even when volume is cranked. Phone has a nice akm dac chip.
> I am sure the a5 will drive the dt770 250 ohm easily. The a3 probably would also!?



No you wouldn't expect phones to typically have line-outs.

Double-amping should be ok for convenience so long as the source is not boosted too much however purists won't be happy as noise is still introduced into the chain even with low noise amps.

My humble opinion is any headphone over 100 ohms is deemed high impedance & 250 ohm Beyers would deserve an amp more serious than A3.


----------



## scott s

Thanks. I am confident to order the dt770 pro 250 ohm now. I have an a5 here waiting already lol. Hope it won't be to unusable with fiio f9 pro Iem's I am thinking of getting also. Maybe 1more triple driver's would be a better choice as they are slightly higher impedance and less sensitivity? Not as good sound as the f9 pro I have read?


----------



## ceemsc

scott s said:


> Thanks. I am confident to order the dt770 pro 250 ohm now. I have an a5 here waiting already lol. Hope it won't be to unusable with fiio f9 pro Iem's I am thinking of getting also. Maybe 1more triple driver's would be a better choice as they are slightly higher impedance and less sensitivity? Not as good sound as the f9 pro I have read?



I have read that A5 is a bit too powerful for IEMs though YMMV.
You would have to audition to your own liking to what works for you.
Even top gear can't fix poorly recorded/mixed/mastered music.


----------



## a-LeXx

I‘ve got an A5 yesterday. Nice little Amp, listening results are a bit mixed...
Source: Xperia X, HP: AT W5000, Momentum, CD3000, few in-ears, everything low impedance and high sensitivity.

With gain on low everything sound really nice, I like it very much. Very clean but on a warm side, airy soundstage, nice separation, silky mids, controlled and very tight bass.

However, when switching to high gain, the picture changes. Bass (especially sub-bass) becomes much stronger, overpowering lower mids. Overall dynamics become compressed, everything is much in your face. Some people might like it, I don‘t, it sounds as a typical dynamic range compression.

Bass boost is a joke, it completely ruins the sound, the cut-off frequency is too high and overall bass boost too strong, I can‘t imagine ever using it.

From the technical point of view, this amp is an overkill in low-gain. Here, with 0 dB amplification, it is basically just a buffer, so the output buffer section is completely sufficient, the muses02 is not doing any amplification, neither in terms of voltage nor current, it‘s just adding ‚color‘ to the signal.

Bottom line: for my currently mostly used HPs (all low impedance) this amp is a big improvement compared to Xperia‘s unamplified output. However, I was hoping to be able to use it with some higher impedance Beyers in the future, and that would require high-gain operation that I don‘t like, hmmm...


----------



## Brooko (Apr 14, 2018)

a-LeXx said:


> I‘ve got an A5 yesterday. Nice little Amp, listening results are a bit mixed...
> Source: Xperia X, HP: AT W5000, Momentum, CD3000, few in-ears, everything low impedance and high sensitivity.
> 
> With gain on low everything sound really nice, I like it very much. Very clean but on a warm side, airy soundstage, nice separation, silky mids, controlled and very tight bass.
> ...



High gain measures perfectly flat.  Its the same signal as low gain - just with an additional 14 dB of gain (*reference  measurements*).  If you're hearing tonal changes, its a combination of your headphones and then not properly matching volume.  It has nothing to do with the A5, and everything to do with psycho-acoustic perception 

Bass boost is like anything - quite good with the right headphones.  If yours are already bass boosted, all you'll get is boost you don't need.  The bass boost measurements are also included in that link I left.


----------



## a-LeXx (Apr 15, 2018)

Yes, right, W5000 or CD3000 a bass-boosted HP... Right, tell me more jokes!  

That measurement diesn‘t show or prove anything. Basically ANY headphone output, even of a really badly amplified phone, shows a perfectly flat frequency responce into open. Do all amplifiers sound the same then? There shouldn‘t be any difference in the sound of any reasonably buffered amplifier, if you base your judgement on a frequency responce curve into open alone, they are always flat on anything that cost more than $5...

Frequency responce curve doesn‘t tell anything about the dynamic range / kompression, behavior with non-linear load and so on.

I hear the difference (more bass, maybe partially perceived due to  kompressed dynamic range) after volume matching on all my low impedance phones, maybe the result will differ with high impedance phones...

And btw, I‘m an electrical engineer, so let‘s not start discussing electrical measurements  If we base our listening impressions on the usually performed measurements alone, 99% of the gear should sound the same and we are all just wasting our money... What I'm trying to say, is, that I also first look into the measurements, because they already can show a bad design/implementation. But good measurements unfortunatelly not always correlate 1:1 with a real life performance...


----------



## Brooko

If you're an EE then you should recognise that gain is exactly that - no other changes.  Volume is boosted - including the noise floor.  What you've described is not consistent with a gain change.  And seeing how you are so knowledgeable - please explain how a change in gain can change compression or DR?  Remember we are talking about same circuit, same load.  All that is changing is gain.

What load would you like me to measure with the A5 (I can do anything with IEMs from ultra sensitive to high impedance, low sensitivity)?  I will measure frequency response for you - and show that the only thing that changes with gain is the volume level (and obviously noise floor).



a-LeXx said:


> Frequency responce curve doesn‘t tell anything about the dynamic range / kompression, behavior with non-linear load and so on.



Please refer your original post


> However, when switching to high gain, the picture changes. *Bass (especially sub-bass) becomes much stronger, overpowering lower mids*.



A frequency response will tell you exactly that - and as before, I call BS on your claim.  The A5 is linear - both low and high gain, and that is under load, and whats more I can measure and show you.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Just to chime in with a thought, 

@a-LeXx - are you volume matching, or you're comparing low gain vs high gain each on their volumes? 

I generally like HG better because I tend to listen very loud and I dislike reaching the max of a volume pot / volume meter, but A5 is quite strong already, I mean really really strong, it is easy to overdo volume on HG with most things out there. I do not use HG on A5.

I was thinking maybe you're reaching high volumes. 

If you're not trying to volume match, the perceived volume of bass and treble changes with volume, by the loudness equalization curve


----------



## scott s

Get some high impedance cans and give it a go. Seems to me you are just over driving your low impedance stuff. If the amp adequately drives your lowimpedance stuff onlow gain why on Earth would you even want to switch to high gain with it's 13 + db gain?
Just asking.


----------



## MROOD

some one needs to check the A5 out with a higher impedance cans, the 32ohms are to low to see how the a5 really performs, maybe a hd650, beyer 990250ohm and a fostex tr90 80ohm, then you can see if the a5 is powerful enough to handle these cans...


----------



## WitzyZed

Yeah dynamic range compression is limited to the source recording and how it was handled during the mix down and mastering. what lexx is experiencing is the Fletcher Munson Curves / Equal Loudness Contours, I think.


----------



## a-LeXx

Wow, what a discussion... As I said, looking into the non-loaded FR of the amplifier does not necessarily show the whole picture. Do you guys have a  circuit diagram of the A5? I couldn‘t find it anywhere... It‘s very possible to have an amp that will have an ideally flat responce into open and non-flat into a non-linear load...  Depends on how the negative feedback / gain control is implemented...

All the cans I‘m currently using tend to bloat the bass without enough damping, particularly the Momentum in a paasive mode and the W5000. As a matter of fact, Momentum in the active mode did not show the bass increase, I forgot to mention this initially... And an active mode in Momentum of course is equal to a flat load seen by the source... 

So, actually, based on this, I think this amp will probably indeed not have this bass increase with high impedance HPs, because they usually represent a much flatter load than some of the low-impedance cans...

Ok, I‘ll go listen to my new toy, actually this little Amp is really nice, my W5000 sounds with it almost as good as with the HA5000, I really like what I‘m hearing...


----------



## superuser1

Increasing the gain also increases the voltage? I think i read that somewhere, just asking if thats a correct conclusion.


----------



## a-LeXx

With low gain setting, A5 will have the same ouput voltage as the input voltage, so it‘s basically just a current buffer. With high gain, the output voltage will be higher by a factor of around 5. So, it‘s only needed when higher impedance / low sensitivity cans are being driven...


----------



## a-LeXx

After few days with the amp, I noticed the following:

on low gain setting, this amp is doing some nasty things with the phase. The soundstage is pretty wide, but the perception of depth is suffering. This doesn't happen on a high gain setting. There, the width of the soundstage is reduced a bit, but it's becoming deeper and the overall presentation turns to be more holographic. This can be only observed with hps that have very good 3D qualities, very noticeable e.g. with an AKG K550, especially with reference-quality binaural recordings, they become kind of flat on low gain.

Too bad no circuit diagram of this amp is available, and I'm too lazy to open it and reverse-engineer...


----------



## Brooko

I have an AKG K553 - it doesn't do that for me.  Doesn't with the HD800 or HD600 either.  Difference between high gain and low gain is the volume (for me).  Volume match to within 0.1 dB ..... no difference.

Have you actually tried a volume matched blind test?  I'd be curious if you can tell the two apart in a completely volume matched blind test with no external cues?

Could be just my hearing though.


----------



## a-LeXx

No blind tests. But I asked my wife who has a very good hearing to listen to those 2 settings and describe the differences (without giving her any hints), and she described this in the same way how I hear it... Volume was every time tuned down to 0 and then slowly increased to comfortable listening levels. I'm very sensitive to phase distortions though, confirmed this many years ago with DBTs...


----------



## stuck limo

Madcat207 said:


> Could be.  All i know is, any proximity to my V20 renders my e12 useless with so much noise. T-Mobile. 4G.. I know its not my interconnect, because the amp powered on with only the cans attached still picks up the interference.



As an LG V20 owner looking into possibly getting this amp, does the interference include wifi? I have an LG V20 as JUST a DAP, with no cell service. I just use wifi.


----------



## Dobrescu George

stuck limo said:


> As an LG V20 owner looking into possibly getting this amp, does the interference include wifi? I have an LG V20 as JUST a DAP, with no cell service. I just use wifi.



Look into FiiO Q5  

https://audiophile-heaven.blogspot.ro/2018/05/fiio-q5-rule-them-all.html


----------



## dhm78

I just picked this amp up used and I'm really enjoying it! It came sans instructions so I was wondering what the charging light does when it's fully charged.  Thanks so much!


----------



## NonXtreme

dhm78 said:


> I just picked this amp up used and I'm really enjoying it! It came sans instructions so I was wondering what the charging light does when it's fully charged.  Thanks so much!


It's stop blinking when fully charge.
However if you keep the amp on when it's fully charge, it may keep blinking.


----------



## dhm78

NonXtreme said:


> It's stop blinking when fully charge.
> However if you keep the amp on when it's fully charge, it may keep blinking.


Thanks!


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## Slater (Jun 28, 2018)

Just wanted to drop by and say I recently picked up a factory sealed A5 for $90, including one of the FiiO Oyaide stacking cables (which is miles better than the A5s included noodle cable).

I already have the E12A Mont Blanc for my IEMs, and fell in love with its clean Muses02 sound, super long battery life, and friendly layout/form factor. But the E12A always struggled to drive some of my more powerful gear.

The A5 has no such issues, and can drive everything I own (or demo at CanJams) no problem. I don’t mind that it has a bit less battery life - it’s a fair trade off. I do like the beefy knurled knob of the E12A better, but that’s small potatoes too.

I agree with Brooko that FiiO missed a great opportunity to build the A5 with a negative gain setting. Then I’d have no reason to even keep my Mont Blanc, as the A5 would also play nice with my most sensitive IEMs. It could have truly been “one amp to rule them all”.

Just like on my E12, I skinned the top and bottom of the A5 with graphic vinyl in ‘brushed titanium’ finish (which looks identical to the E12A’s stock color and brushed finish). Works much better than the FiiO stacking pads, and it has kept my E12A looking brand new for years now. If anyone wants to see a pic lemme know and I’ll post a few.


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## Slater (Jul 7, 2018)

I have a very simple usability mod for the A5 I wanted to share.

The E12A has an awesome volume knob, heavily knurled, giving your finger a kung fu grip. The A5 volume knob may as well be made of glass - it's slippery and very hard to get a grip on it. Why they didn't use the same knob as the E12A is beyond me.

I was going to just order a different 13mm knob, nicely knurled like the E12A's knob. But upon closer inspection of the stock A5's knob, the red 'stripe' (which I originally thought was painted on) turned out to be a thin red rubber o-ring.





Well, all you do is remove the red o-ring (using your fingernail or the point of a sharp object like a sewing needle). Here's what you're left with:



_(Note you DO NOT have to remove the knob itself. I only removed it when I thought I was going to replace the knob. To do this mod, you can leave the knob on.)_

Anyways, once the red o-ring is removed, I found a similarly sized (but just a tad thicker) o-ring, and reinstalled it back onto the knob. The results are a nice grippy rubber surface that allows the knob to be turned with ease. A vast improvement over the stock knob!

Here's the finished product:



Note how the new o-ring is thicker, protruding from the edge more than the stock red one did. This is what provides the grip for your fingers.

The whole process from start to finish takes <10 seconds. The o-ring like I used runs about $0.01 to $0.02, and you can get them numerous places (I happened to get my o-ring from a case of assorted o-rings I already had laying around). If you can’t find one that fits I an assortment, lemme know and I’ll post the exact size of the one I used.

I saved the original red o-ring in a baggie and stored it inside the A5 retail box, if for some odd reason I ever wanted to go back to the stock red o-ring.

Enjoy!


----------



## Solero

I've just purchased a used A5 and i have some questions. The volume knob is at 9 o clock when the unit is off. When i turn it on it goes to 10  o clock. The movement of the volume knob is not smooth when i raise or lower the volume. It is like small steps. Are all these normal ??


----------



## Brooko

Solero said:


> I've just purchased a used A5 and i have some questions. The volume knob is at 9 o clock when the unit is off. When i turn it on it goes to 10  o clock. The movement of the volume knob is not smooth when i raise or lower the volume. It is like small steps. Are all these normal ??


The indicator on the knob should point roughly toward the gain switch when off.  If that's your 9.00 (and it looks to me thats what you are saying), then yes its normal. And yes turing it on starts at "10 o'clock".

The actual movement of the knob is very smooth for me.  But are you talking about the physical movement or the tracking of the volume?  If its the actual volume tracking (up/down) - what is your source, and what are your headphones?


----------



## Solero

I am talking about the physical movement


----------



## Brooko

OK - mine is very smooth.  If yours is not, then maybe drop a line to FiiO.  The pot may be slightly out of alignment.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Oh yes, on A5 the wheel should be really smooth, no steps.


----------



## Slater

Solero said:


> I am talking about the physical movement





Brooko said:


> OK - mine is very smooth.  If yours is not, then maybe drop a line to FiiO.  The pot may be slightly out of alignment.



Agreed. Mine is smooth as silk.


----------



## Solero

So i probably have to return it to the seller... In his selling thread he said "In fine condition"


----------



## Dobrescu George

Solero said:


> So i probably have to return it to the seller... In his selling thread he said "In fine condition"



Had to say what is the best course of action, but the volume wheel does feel  very smooth on A5, but if it sounds good and doesn't have other issues, depending on what pricew you got, maybe you didn't get such a bad deal either


----------



## Solero

100 €.
 It seems to sound ok but i am not sure.
I've pair it with ME2 as DAC and HD660. In low gain the sound was a little bloated but i am not sure, i will test it again tonight.


----------



## Solero

It sounds ok i guess. I don't have any other unit to compare...


----------



## Slater (Jul 15, 2018)

Solero said:


> 100 €.
> It seems to sound ok but i am not sure.
> I've pair it with ME2 as DAC and HD660. In low gain the sound was a little bloated but i am not sure, i will test it again tonight.



Hmmm, it shouldn’t really sounded bloated, even with bass boost on. And especially so with low gain.

The A5 has incredibly clean sound.

Maybe an impedance mismatch (the A5 is very low impedance)? I’m not familiar with the ME2.


----------



## Solero

Seller returned 40 € today after hearing my complaints. So i finally bought it for 60 €. I think it is a good price for this amp


----------



## Zeo-Gold92

Im considering either this or the A3, has anyone used it with a cowon plenue d, what headphones would do best with these? I own a pair of Fidue A73 that I started using again but I will be making a purchase of possibly grado sr80e or 225e.How would the A3/A5 fair with any of these headphones and cowon? Is there hiss on either one?


----------



## Slater

Zeo-Gold92 said:


> Im considering either this or the A3, has anyone used it with a cowon plenue d, what headphones would do best with these? I own a pair of Fidue A73 that I started using again but I will be making a purchase of possibly grado sr80e or 225e.How would the A3/A5 fair with any of these headphones and cowon? Is there hiss on either one?



If you’re worried about hiss on sensitive gear, the E12A Mont Blanc IEM would be better than the A5. Still has plenty of power.


----------



## Zeo-Gold92

Slater said:


> If you’re worried about hiss on sensitive gear, the E12A Mont Blanc IEM would be better than the A5. Still has plenty of power.


Thanks for the recc. Looks exactly what i want .


----------



## Slater (Jul 24, 2018)

Zeo-Gold92 said:


> Thanks for the recc. Looks exactly what i want .



Yup, I have both the A5 and the Mont Blanc. The most sensitive IEM I have is the Magaosi K5. It is very picky, and will hiss on a lot of gear. It’s black as can be on the Mont Blanc.

I basically use the A5 for hungry full size headphones, and the Mont Blanc for IEMs. Which makes sense, because that’s what each of them are designed for.

Lemme know if I can answer any other questions about one vs the other, photos, measurements, etc.


----------



## georgelai57

Just for kicks, anyone know of a more powerful battery-operated portable headphone amp than the A5?

I do have the A5 but sometimes I just want more oomph. Don’t ask why


----------



## kukkurovaca

georgelai57 said:


> Just for kicks, anyone know of a more powerful battery-operated portable headphone amp than the A5?
> 
> I do have the A5 but sometimes I just want more oomph. Don’t ask why



If you don't need it to be easily pocketable, iFi Micro iDSD. Or, even more massive, the Analog Squared Paper TUR-08?


----------



## richardxq

a-LeXx said:


> Wow, what a discussion... As I said, looking into the non-loaded FR of the amplifier does not necessarily show the whole picture. Do you guys have a  circuit diagram of the A5? I couldn‘t find it anywhere... It‘s very possible to have an amp that will have an ideally flat responce into open and non-flat into a non-linear load...  Depends on how the negative feedback / gain control is implemented...
> 
> All the cans I‘m currently using tend to bloat the bass without enough damping, particularly the Momentum in a paasive mode and the W5000. As a matter of fact, Momentum in the active mode did not show the bass increase, I forgot to mention this initially... And an active mode in Momentum of course is equal to a flat load seen by the source...
> 
> ...


sounds great! I am looking for a portable amp for my w5000. Could  you please talk a bit more about the w5000 under this fiio a5?Thanks!


----------



## CoCostanza

Hi,
Im wondering if the A5 has exactly and I mean EXACTLY the same sound signature as E12a? In that case I would get it.

I got myself the LCD-2 and started to looking for a headphobe amp. Tried many amps, all the way up to 1000$, and the one I choosed was E12a. Because of its very very unique sound.
Its far from being technically best but man this thing got personality. Paired with LCD-2, It gives me that thick smokey jazz clubb sound. It sounds compressed in a very hi-fiish way. Some very expensive tube-amps do that.

And now I see that A5 is E12a with more power? Cause that would be the only thing I would improve. Even though if you like this kind of sound signature, then your not into loud volumes. 

Anyway, anyone here got both of them? Then I would appreciate a short short comparison.


----------



## Slater (Aug 16, 2018)

CoCostanza said:


> Hi,
> Im wondering if the A5 has exactly and I mean EXACTLY the same sound signature as E12a? In that case I would get it.
> 
> I got myself the LCD-2 and started to looking for a headphobe amp. Tried many amps, all the way up to 1000$, and the one I choosed was E12a. Because of its very very unique sound.
> ...



Mine sure sound exactly the same.

I agree with you about the sound - I love it. Some people don’t, saying it’s too warm or not cold and detailed. But that’s the Muses02 magic I suppose


----------



## CoCostanza

Slater said:


> Mine sure sound exactly the same.
> 
> I agree with you about the sound - I love it. Some people don’t, saying it’s too warm or not cold and detailed. But that’s the Muses02 magic I suppose



Oh thats very good news. E12a with more power is what I was looking for. 

If you dont immediately get scared by the warmth and instead start to listen, you notice  its detailed as hell. Thats what makes it sound more expensive.


----------



## Slater

CoCostanza said:


> Oh thats very good news. E12a with more power is what I was looking for.
> 
> If you dont immediately get scared by the warmth and instead start to listen, you notice  its detailed as hell. Thats what makes it sound more expensive.



The Muses02 gives a warm tube-like sound (yet with great detail and clarity) in a convenient solid state form. I know that’s why FiiO used it in the E12A, and continued to use it in the A5.

I remember when the E12DIY came out, a lot of people bought Muses02 op amps for the best sound possible. The problem is that 95% of them on eBay and Aliexpress are counterfeit. If you buy them from Mouser etc they are genuine, but cost $30-$40 each. So the fact that you are able to buy an E12A or A5 for ~$100 is impressive, because both come with genuine Muses02 worth 1/3 of the overall cost.

The other thing that’s great about the A5 is you get the extra power (at the expense of some battery life), but you can swap the op amp for those that feel the Muses02 is too warm.


----------



## CoCostanza

Slater said:


> The Muses02 gives a warm tube-like sound (yet with great detail and clarity) in a convenient solid state form. I know that’s why FiiO used it in the E12A, and continued to use it in the A5.
> 
> I remember when the E12DIY came out, a lot of people bought Muses02 op amps for the best sound possible. The problem is that 95% of them on eBay and Aliexpress are counterfeit. If you buy them from Mouser etc they are genuine, but cost $30-$40 each. So the fact that you are able to buy an E12A or A5 for ~$100 is impressive, because both come with genuine Muses02 worth 1/3 of the overall cost.
> 
> The other thing that’s great about the A5 is you get the extra power (at the expense of some battery life), but you can swap the op amp for those that feel the Muses02 is too warm.



I know the price is sick. I was actually so close not to try it just because of the price. Tought it was too cheap, cant be no good.

What are you pairing it with? Im using it with chord Mojo. It gives it even more detail


----------



## Slater

CoCostanza said:


> I know the price is sick. I was actually so close not to try it just because of the price. Tought it was too cheap, cant be no good.
> 
> What are you pairing it with? Im using it with chord Mojo. It gives it even more detail



I normally use it with an xduoo X3, but have also paired it with my SSD-equipped iPod, and my Sansa Clip+. All 3 devices run Rockbox.

I use the E12A with my IEMs and the A5 with my full size cans.


----------



## Xyrium

Weird, the output looks like the original E12, no?

http://www.fiio.net/en/products/16/parameters

http://www.fiio.net/en/products/59/parameters

I was under the impression that the E12A was the upgrade to the E12, from a quality standpoint, just not an output perspective.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Xyrium said:


> Weird, the output looks like the original E12, no?
> 
> http://www.fiio.net/en/products/16/parameters
> 
> ...



between E12 and E12A, the signature is not very similar though, E12A has a strong signature of its own, while E12 was fairly transparent and such.


----------



## Xyrium

I've never had the E12, but the E12A definitely made my Beyer 880/600's sound fairly tame, without losing the detail that those cans offer.


----------



## fokta (Sep 4, 2018)

dropping by to share, looking for amp to support my DAP drive my Headphone.. audition in local store, my eyes is to A5... the store offered Mojo, luckily they don't have demo for it. (edit, some coworker lend me Mojo, hmm.. different league... but IMO best pair for mojo is with smartphone... ) 

Continuing audition A5 with HD668b and DT990 pro, significant increase on both phones, then the store offered bstock of E12A, give it a try since the price is attractive.... gezz... it give a bit colour for DT990 Pro, IMO..  but the omph on HD668b is more with A5.

Interestingly is different between E12A and A5...
in the end I choose.... due to price =p


----------



## Xyrium

The E12A seems thicker to me, but both have enough power for most dynamic driver cans. I don't believe the power capability of the 990 is that high, so the E12A should do fine there, and I believe it might smooth out it's somewhat accentuated highs. I don't know about the 668's though. I have both amps, and the only thing I'd change about the A5 is the volume knob, I wish they kept the E12A volume knob knurling.


----------



## Slater

Xyrium said:


> I have both amps, and the only thing I'd change about the A5 is the volume knob, I wish they kept the E12A volume knob knurling.



You’re definitely right about the knob! I did come up with a great fix:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-19vp-p-12-hours.819831/page-48#post-14346913


----------



## fokta

Xyrium said:


> The E12A seems thicker to me, but both have enough power for most dynamic driver cans. I don't believe the power capability of the 990 is that high, so the E12A should do fine there, and I believe it might smooth out it's somewhat accentuated highs. I don't know about the 668's though. I have both amps, and the only thing I'd change about the A5 is the volume knob, I wish they kept the E12A volume knob knurling.



yes, 990 is driveable, need H Gain to get more detail... while 668 no need for gain.
I noticed the colour sound E12A, when using Polaris, when it runs out of battery, so plug directly to DAP... now i need this amp for IEM.. 

unfortunately I can't compare polaris using A5...


----------



## Xyrium

I'm not sure about what impedance version you have of the 990, but those cans claim to only handle 100mW, as crazy as that may sound. Sensitivity isn't the highest, but impedance is probably the issue if you run out of steam with the E12A. 

https://north-america.beyerdynamic.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/3891/product_id/1730/


----------



## kutulu32 (Sep 8, 2018)

Owner of both e12 and a5 . I use for years my mx4pro(  ES9018K2M DAC  OPA1612 amp) with e12 combo to drive my sennheiser hd600 . After replacing e12 with a5 few months agoi think audio is cleaner and better in general. I think synergy is great.i dont use bass boost ,use high gain and no EQ


----------



## a-LeXx

I think I already mentioned this sonewhere here, is it only me or my unit, I don‘t know, but my A5 sounds differently on low and high gain.

On high gain, it‘s very forward, have that slightly compressed warm sound it‘s famous for. On low gain, the whole presentation becomes much wider, as if there was something going on with the phase, mids become much less in your face, the warms is gone to a large extent... I know it‘s very strange, as a gain switch is usually (don‘t know what Fiio is doing but guess the same as the rest of the world) just a different resistor value for the negative feedback, that shouldn‘t have such a big sonic impact, especially not on the phase....

Anyone also noticing a difference between low/high gain? I don‘t actually believe this is only my unit, as both channels would have to exhibit the same fault simultaniously, very unlikely....

-Alex


----------



## kukkurovaca

a-LeXx said:


> I think I already mentioned this sonewhere here, is it only me or my unit, I don‘t know, but my A5 sounds differently on low and high gain.
> 
> On high gain, it‘s very forward, have that slightly compressed warm sound it‘s famous for. On low gain, the whole presentation becomes much wider, as if there was something going on with the phase, mids become much less in your face, the warms is gone to a large extent... I know it‘s very strange, as a gain switch is usually (don‘t know what Fiio is doing but guess the same as the rest of the world) just a different resistor value for the negative feedback, that shouldn‘t have such a big sonic impact, especially not on the phase....
> 
> ...



That's interesting. I don't have an A5 yet, but that sounds kind of like the behavior of the high/low impedance switch on my Phatlab Phantasy. (Which also does raise/lower volume, but it's primarily intended to act as a gain switch.)

If it is an impedance thing, then it would be less pronounced on planars if you have any and most pronounced (probably) on multi-BA IEMs.


----------



## Voxata

I also noticed a change when using gain. I preferred high.


----------



## artnoi

kukkurovaca said:


> That's interesting. I don't have an A5 yet, but that sounds kind of like the behavior of the high/low impedance switch on my Phatlab Phantasy. (Which also does raise/lower volume, but it's primarily intended to act as a gain switch.)
> 
> If it is an impedance thing, then it would be less pronounced on planars if you have any and most pronounced (probably) on multi-BA IEMs.


No. A5 has pretty impressively low output impedance (0.x ohm I dont remember) for both high/low gain settings so it won’t mess up with lower-impedance IEMs.


----------



## a-LeXx (Oct 10, 2018)

The only explanation from the technical point I have is that MUSES02 on low gain (0dB) is strangled to death by the negative feedback, while it opens up with harmonics at high gain, which is an impressive around x5 voltage amplification. Don't know what's the open loop gain of the MUSES02, probably not very high... So, with a x5 factor of the high gain mode the influence of the negative feedback is much less pronounced than at low gain, hence more harmonic distortion can make it's way through, responsible for that warmer sound a bit closer to the tubes (that's also my impression, the A5 on a high gain has indeed a more tube-like than SS presentation).

Edit: was to curious and just checked, open loop gain of MUSES02 is 110dB which is pretty high. Probably around 40-50dB for audio bandwidth... Which means even in high gain there is a LOT of negative feedback... Then I just don't know... The numbers and all the theory contradict what I'm hearing...


----------



## a-LeXx (Nov 1, 2018)

Ok, after some more testing I can confirm that this tube-like sound at high gain is caused by a larger amount of harmonic distortions.

While at low gain the amp is absolutely transparent, and the only effect of it is a little bit less air compared to a source directly, at high gain this amp indeed creates audible amount of harmonic distortions. It becomes most obvious when listening to vocals. It is also not an issue of an amp being overdriven - the input sensitivity at high gain is specified with 1.15V, and I was even below 0.5V (european ipod touch that cannot otput more than 0.5Vrms because of European regulations).

That‘s pretty unique, I haven‘t seen that badly distorting solid state amp in years. But then again, maybe it‘s done on purpose, because it‘s not a bad kind of distortion, it‘s the one making a sound more euphonic...


----------



## Xyrium

a-LeXx said:


> Ok, after some more testing I can confirm that this tube-like sound at high gain is caused by a larger amount of harmonic distortions.
> 
> While at low gain the amp is absolutely transparent, and the only effect of it is a little bit less air compared to a source directly, at high gain this amp indeed creates audible amount of harmonic distortions. It becomes most obvious when listening to vocals. It is also not an issue of an amp being overdriven - the input sensitivity at high gain is specified with 1.15V, and I was even below 0.5V (european ipod touch that cannot otput more than 0.5Vrms because of European regulations).
> 
> That‘s pretty unique, I haven‘t seen that badly distorting solid state amp in years. But then again, maybe it‘s done on purpose, because it‘s not a bad kind of distortion, it‘s the one making a sound more euphonic...



WHen you say you can confirm it, are you saying you have measurements of harmonic distortion? Just curious, I'd love to see the graph since I have both an A5 and the E12A.

If even order, I suppose this could explain why there is a warmth to the output, tubelike even. It sure sounds sweet to me on a pair of Massdrop EDC 3's. 

There are a few speaker amps out there which emulate second harmonics, the Nuprime STA-9 being one of them. I had one, and there's definitely enhanced highs, and a thickening of the mids coming out of it, to my ears, no measurements.


----------



## Slater

a-LeXx said:


> Ok, after some more testing I can confirm that this tube-like sound at high gain is caused by a larger amount of harmonic distortions.
> 
> While at low gain the amp is absolutely transparent, and the only effect of it is a little bit less air compared to a source directly, at high gain this amp indeed creates audible amount of harmonic distortions. It becomes most obvious when listening to vocals. It is also not an issue of an amp being overdriven - the input sensitivity at high gain is specified with 1.15V, and I was even below 0.5V (european ipod touch that cannot otput more than 0.5Vrms because of European regulations).
> 
> That‘s pretty unique, I haven‘t seen that badly distorting solid state amp in years. But then again, maybe it‘s done on purpose, because it‘s not a bad kind of distortion, it‘s the one making a sound more euphonic...



I think it’s on purpose as well. The E12A on high gain doesn’t sound exactly the same. Only the A5.

As you said, the result is very tube-like. If it’s distortion, then so be it - it’s the best sounding distortion I’ve ever heard! It’s like carrying a small tube amp in your pocket. And with a simple flip of the gains switch to low, it turns neutral as you pointed out. Very versatile!


----------



## a-LeXx (Nov 1, 2018)

Nope, not measured the harmonics, but I’ve set up 2 identical sources with identical content, level matched, and a switch box to choose one of them. One source went into the switch box directly, second one through A5. So, I could compare directly how A5 impacts the sound.

As I said, on low gain it was pretty transparent, no added warmth watsever, just a bit less air, but that’s all.

At high gain, harmonic distortions were clearly audible with vocal music. There was a touch of warmth and a sparkle not present in the source, those are clear signs of harmonic distortion, this is how it sounds, no need to measure... Tonality overall didn’t change.

And I agree that it really does sound good. I‘m too laizy to do a proper measurement, I could have taken this guy to work and really measure everything, but what for? If it sounds like harmonic distortion, then it‘s harmonic distortion, that‘s pretty simple 

I actually also have a tube amp, that came with nice russian tubes from current manufacturing. Didn‘t like them at all, sounded like a solid state amp. Exchanged the tubes gor some NOS Philips from the 60th, crazy microphonic and distorting - those put a big smile on my face 

That doesn‘t work with everything of course, e.g. with most classical music I prefer the sound to be as clean as possible, so that I can listen to a concert hall‘s acoustics and not to what my gear adds on distortion. But Jazz is a complete oposite, there tubes just shine. And A5 on a high gain setting, although it‘s a real overkill for my mostly used t5p.2


----------



## Indrajit

Hi, I have a Fiio X5iii and a Sennheiser HD 598. I am looking for a sound quality that is more neutral. I have options for 3 amps. I can buy either Fiio E12A, Fiio A5 or Magni 3. Portability or not is not an issue. Only sound quality matters. Can anyone here recommend the best in the mentioned class for the pairing with X5III?


----------



## a-LeXx

Indrajit said:


> Hi, I have a Fiio X5iii and a Sennheiser HD 598. I am looking for a sound quality that is more neutral. I have options for 3 amps. I can buy either Fiio E12A, Fiio A5 or Magni 3. Portability or not is not an issue. Only sound quality matters. Can anyone here recommend the best in the mentioned class for the pairing with X5III?



Why would you need an amp for a HD598? Your X5III should be perfectly capable to drive it alone. Remember, EVERY amp, even the most neutral one, will always affect the sound. So, the best solution is not to use any amps if you don't want to achieve a particular result, e.g. getting some warmth and distortion from tubes...


----------



## Indrajit

a-LeXx said:


> Why would you need an amp for a HD598? Your X5III should be perfectly capable to drive it alone. Remember, EVERY amp, even the most neutral one, will always affect the sound. So, the best solution is not to use any amps if you don't want to achieve a particular result, e.g. getting some warmth and distortion from tubes...




I do want an external dimension to the set-up. That's all


----------



## Slater

Indrajit said:


> I do want an external dimension to the set-up. That's all



What other gear do you have?

If it’s mostly IEMs and easy to drive headphones (like the 598), then consider the E12A Mont Blanc. It will drive all that stuff just fine, longer battery life than the A5, it’s the same size, and it has some of the same hardware as the A5.

Most importantly, if you have any really sensitive IEMs, the E12A wont hiss (whereas the A5 might).

I own both the A5 and E12A. Both are great. They do overlap somewhat, but where the A5 is superior is driving difficult-to-drive full size headphones (which the 598 is not).

So my advice?

A5 if you have IEMs that are NOT sensitive AND you have hungry or very high end headphones (planars, electrostatics, flagships like HD800, Sony Z1R, etc).

E12A if you have any IEM (including super sensitive ones) AND you have easy to drive dynamic headphones (<64ohm; although you should consider both impedance and sensitivity).


----------



## Indrajit (Nov 14, 2018)

Slater said:


> What other gear do you have?
> 
> If it’s mostly IEMs and easy to drive headphones (like the 598), then consider the E12A Mont Blanc. It will drive all that stuff just fine, longer battery life than the A5, it’s the same size, and it has some of the same hardware as the A5.
> 
> ...



I have only the HD 598. I simply don't use in-ears. I am just concerned about E12A's ability to push 598 to its limits vs the A5 or the Magni. Also wonder if the A5 on 'high gain' can hiss with the 598 with the 598's impedance and high sensitivity.


----------



## kutulu32

You don't need an amp as previously is written keep your money to buy hd600 then you will  need an amp


----------



## Slater (Nov 14, 2018)

Indrajit said:


> I have only the HD 598. I simply don't use in-ears. I am just concerned about E12A's ability to push 598 to its limits vs the A5 or the Magni. Also wonder if the A5 on 'high gain' can hiss with the 598 with the 598's impedance and high sensitivity.



I had the E12A for years as my primary amp. It has driven every headphone I own or have owned perfectly fine, including the HD598, Fidelity X2, 600ohm Superlux HD660, etc. The full list of gear is in my profile.

And as others have mentioned, the HD598 needs no amp and is powered just fine by your FiiO DAP. I owned the 598 for years.

I only added an A5 to the stable because I came across a great deal, and because I will eventually buy some planars and electrostats. Otherwise, I still use the E12A to this day.

As I mentioned previously, either E12A or A5 are more than enough for your HD598 (as is your FiiO DAP by itself). Be aware that adding an amp is just more bulk to haul around, more cables, more stuff to charge, etc. It gets old, believe me. And it can color the sound by being an extra processing step in the chain.

But, if you’re insistent on getting an amp, based on what gear you use I would get the E12A Mont Blanc for the significantly longer battery life. It is so close in sound to the A5, that in a blind test you will be unable to tell the difference.


----------



## Indrajit

Slater said:


> I had the E12A for years as my primary amp. It has driven every headphone I own or have owned perfectly fine, including the HD598, Fidelity X2, 600ohm Superlux HD660, etc. The full list of gear is in my profile.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for responding. Based on your experience with the E12A and 598, do you think adding a E12A to X5iii line out brings significant improvements vs the X5iii h.out?


----------



## Slater (Nov 14, 2018)

Indrajit said:


> Thanks for responding. Based on your experience with the E12A and 598, do you think adding a E12A to X5iii line out brings significant improvements vs the X5iii h.out?



I don’t have an X5iii, so I can’t speculate about that DAP.

But I can speak from my experience, which is an xduoo X3. I forget the exact power output rating of the xduoo X3, but it is no slouch. Anyways, in my experience I feel it does improve the end result.

But the improvement may not be ‘more power’. Some of it could be nothing more than a smoothing of the output voltage. Or some of it could be coloring from the op amp. But regardless, I prefer the sound when using the E12A or A5 vs when not using it.

Is it necessary? Absolutely not, as the X3 does just fine by itself (on most headphones, including the HD598).

Is it a “significant improvement”? No, it’s a minor improvement.

Keep in mind that in audio, many things we do are small incremental improvements:

- A better cable = incremental improvement (which is debatable)
- An ear pad swap = incremental improvement
- Using flac or DSD vs 320k MP3 = incremental improvement
- Using an amp vs no amp = incremental improvement

It’s the sum of all of those little changes that can (possibly) add up to a “significant improvement”.

It’s not going to be a miracle that turns a screechy dollar store headphone into a flagship.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Indrajit said:


> Thanks for responding. Based on your experience with the E12A and 598, do you think adding a E12A to X5iii line out brings significant improvements vs the X5iii h.out?



Yes, I think E12A was a bit better than X5-3, although something like FiiO Q5 is much much improved. I'd even say A5 is better added to X5-3, more neutral, more treble sparkle, much better treble extension. 

E12A is smooth up top, similar to X5-3, so it may not be quite that much better...


----------



## Indrajit

Dobrescu George said:


> Yes, I think E12A was a bit better than X5-3, although something like FiiO Q5 is much much improved. I'd even say A5 is better added to X5-3, more neutral, more treble sparkle, much better treble extension.
> 
> 
> E12A is smooth up top, similar to X5-3, so it may not be quite that much better...



Thank you. Seems A5 is the way to go.


----------



## Indrajit

Slater said:


> I don’t have an X5iii, so I can’t speculate about that DAP.
> 
> But I can speak from my experience, which is an xduoo X3. I forget the exact power output rating of the xduoo X3, but it is no slouch. Anyways, in my experience I feel it does improve the end result.
> 
> ...



 Thanks


----------



## stuck limo

Excited and proud to add an A5 to my setup. Probably unnecessary but it will help with any future cans needing power. 

LG V20 > Aclear > A5


----------



## Slater

stuck limo said:


> Excited and proud to add an A5 to my setup. Probably unnecessary but it will help with any future cans needing power.
> 
> LG V20 > Aclear > A5



Looks nice!

Is there any advantage of going USB-C out of the phone, vs the headphone jack?


----------



## stuck limo

Slater said:


> Looks nice!
> 
> Is there any advantage of going USB-C out of the phone, vs the headphone jack?



The only reason you'd want to go USB-C out of a phone is because you want to use an external DAC vs the one already in the phone.


----------



## Slater

stuck limo said:


> The only reason you'd want to go USB-C out of a phone is because you want to use an external DAC vs the one already in the phone.



Yes, such as the DAC chip in the USB-C adapters. I don't know anything about the DAC in the V20, nor whether it is better or worse than the DAC found in, say, the Google Pixel adapter.


----------



## FiiO

*Black Friday 2018: The Best Deals You Can Get for FiiO Best-Selling Products!*>>Click here


----------



## Indrajit

Dobrescu George said:


> Yes, I think E12A was a bit better than X5-3, although something like FiiO Q5 is much much improved. I'd even say A5 is better added to X5-3, more neutral, more treble sparkle, much better treble extension.
> 
> E12A is smooth up top, similar to X5-3, so it may not be quite that much better...



Have you anywhere compared A5 sound with E12A? Based on your comment here, it seems that A5 has more treble extension and less smoothness compared to E12A. Does it also mean that the A5 can bring out more details


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## Indrajit (Nov 22, 2018)

Dobrescu George said:


> Yes, I think E12A was a bit better than X5-3, although something like FiiO Q5 is much much improved. I'd even say A5 is better added to X5-3, more neutral, more treble sparkle, much better treble extension.
> 
> 
> 
> E12A is smooth up top, similar to X5-3, so it may not be quite that much better...



Have you anywhere compared A5 sound with E12A? Based on your comment here, it seems that A5 has more treble extension and less smoothness compared to E12A. Does it also mean that the A5 can bring out more details


----------



## Dobrescu George

Indrajit said:


> Have you anywhere compared A5 sound with E12A? Based on your comment here, it seems that A5 has more treble extension and less smoothness compared to E12A. Does it also mean that the A5 can bring out more details



Yes, I felt like A5 was more neutral, E12A was really smooth and didn't bring the treble forward quite that much. It was nice if you wanted a leaner experience, but for most uses, I would go with A5. I think A5 is the portable AMP to go from FiiO, although I would also consider Q5, which is much better in every way (though also considerably more expensive)


----------



## riodgarp

hello, through mount blanc family has similiar charging input recomendation (5V 2A) is it okay to use a charger above 2A ( I has 5V 3A charger) and use a powerbank ?


----------



## Indrajit

Dobrescu George said:


> Yes, I felt like A5 was more neutral, E12A was really smooth and didn't bring the treble forward quite that much. It was nice if you wanted a leaner experience, but for most uses, I would go with A5. I think A5 is the portable AMP to go from FiiO, although I would also consider Q5, which is much better in every way (though also considerably more expensive)



Thank you. Fiio X5iii already has warmth and the E12A in that scenario may just increase the warmth. A5 is perhaps more transparent


----------



## Xyrium

riodgarp said:


> hello, through mount blanc family has similiar charging input recomendation (5V 2A) is it okay to use a charger above 2A ( I has 5V 3A charger) and use a powerbank ?



Absolutely. Just don't use a charger with higher voltage.


----------



## Indrajit

I am using a Fiio X5III+Fiio A5+ Sennheiser HD 598. I am currently experiencing a very peaky, sharp and piercing vocal via the A5. All other facets of sound seem to be fine, but the vocals are very thin and piercing. Does anyone have an insight over this. Didn't hope the A5 would just kill vocals like this


----------



## golfinggino

I think the problem is your headphones, I used the x5iii and a5 combo with my HEX V2 and it sounded great.  the hd598 probably wouldnt sound any different with or without the a5 amp


----------



## Indrajit

golfinggino said:


> I think the problem is your headphones, I used the x5iii and a5 combo with my HEX V2 and it sounded great.  the hd598 probably wouldnt sound any different with or without the a5 amp




I had a Schiit Magni 3 before A5. Via the Magni the 598 produced richer and deeper vocals even on high volumes.


----------



## stuck limo

Indrajit said:


> I am using a Fiio X5III+Fiio A5+ Sennheiser HD 598. I am currently experiencing a very peaky, sharp and piercing vocal via the A5. All other facets of sound seem to be fine, but the vocals are very thin and piercing. Does anyone have an insight over this. Didn't hope the A5 would just kill vocals like this



Try different headphones on the A5. Then try the headphones and source without the A5 in the chain. I think it's your headphones too.


----------



## Brooko (Dec 13, 2018)

Indrajit said:


> I had a Schiit Magni 3 before A5. Via the Magni the 598 produced richer and deeper vocals even on high volumes.



Make sure you volume match when doing comparisons, and use a proper SPL meter and test tones to do the matching.  Half the issue is that people don't properly volume match or try to to do it "by ear".  End result - usually the output from the amp is slightly louder - and we perceive louder as more detailed, richer, better sound-stage etc, etc.  Its how we are wired, we can't escape it.

Most people think they are comparing what they hear.  To truly do that - you have to eliminate all bias as much as possible.  First thing is making the playing field even (same tracks, same source, same volume).  Second is removing other influences - blind test, someone else doing random switching.  You'd be amazed how our preconceived impressions change when you that.

BTW - one way you can have deeper bass or richer mid-range is subtly introducing higher distortion levels.  Its not really high fidelity, but there all sorts of tricks to this trade


----------



## Indrajit (Dec 14, 2018)

Brooko said:


> Make sure you volume match when doing comparisons, and use a proper SPL meter and test tones to do the matching.  Half the issue is that people don't properly volume match or try to to do it "by ear".  End result - usually the output from the amp is slightly louder - and we perceive louder as more detailed, richer, better sound-stage etc, etc.  Its how we are wired, we can't escape it.
> 
> Most people think they are comparing what they hear.  To truly do that - you have to eliminate all bias as much as possible.  First thing is making the playing field even (same tracks, same source, same volume).  Second is removing other influences - blind test, someone else doing random switching.  You'd be amazed how our preconceived impressions change when you that.
> 
> BTW - one way you can have deeper bass or richer mid-range is subtly introducing higher distortion levels.  Its not really high fidelity, but there all sorts of tricks to this trade




Thank you.
I still want to make the vocals bigger and take away some of that peaky sparkle from vocals. Is there a way to do that through equalization. Can anyone suggest how to achieve that through equalization?


----------



## Brooko

Indrajit said:


> Thank you.
> I still want to make the vocals bigger and take away some of that peaky sparkle from vocals. Is there a way to do that through equalization. Can anyone suggest how to achieve that through equalization?



Which headphones are you using?


----------



## Indrajit

Sennheiser HD 598


----------



## Brooko (Dec 14, 2018)

OK - that's really weird - for a few reasons.


The A5 is almost completely neutral - measures dead flat, practically wire with gain.
The HD598 is not a bright headphone.  it has a 10dB rise at 3-5 kHz and another one at 9-10 kHz. 3-5kHz is mostly too early for sibilance.  9-10 kHz is too late.  So your description of the A5 or HD598 being a cause seems strange
The HD598 can tend to be a bit grainy in the upper mids - because the bump is too pronounced - perhaps that is what you're hearing?
My advice - drop the upper mid-range by about 4-5dB (EDIT 3-5 kHz) and see if it makes a difference.

Also - check your music - perhaps it is also in the mastering?  A hot track coupled with a headphone that overly boosts the upper mids can cause issues if you are sensitive to that frequency band.  If that's the case - I'd sell the HD598 and look to get an HD6XX (Massdrop version of the HD650)

EDIT - corrected freq range


----------



## Indrajit

Brooko said:


> OK - that's really weird - for a few reasons.
> 
> 
> The A5 is almost completely neutral - measures dead flat, practically wire with gain.
> ...



I will try reducing the 2-3 KHz band to see if the sibilance goes away from vocals. Thank you for responding. I highly doubt that the headphones could be damaged because sound from damaged headphones would be much more visible. Everything in the 598 seems very good except the vocals,
they just sound thin


----------



## Xyrium

Yep, what Brooko said. I would venture to say that you might actually enjoy the sound of THD (many folks do), whereas the fundamentals in the vocal range on the Schiit gear was literally being masked. The A5 is very neutral IME; what goes in, comes back out. I even had my Beyer DT880/600s on it, with nary an issue, and they aren't exactly lenient when it comes to music reproduction.



Brooko said:


> OK - that's really weird - for a few reasons.
> 
> 
> The A5 is almost completely neutral - measures dead flat, practically wire with gain.
> ...


----------



## Dobrescu George

Indrajit said:


> I will try reducing the 2-3 KHz band to see if the sibilance goes away from vocals. Thank you for responding. I highly doubt that the headphones could be damaged because sound from damaged headphones would be much more visible. Everything in the 598 seems very good except the vocals,
> they just sound thin



Try what Paul said, it should solve the issue. 

If you still want to push things, I would also suggest the following: 

Lower 3-5 kHz by 5-7dB, and increase 100 Hz by 3-5 dB This will push back the midrange, especially the upper midrange, and thicken the sound.


----------



## Brooko

Dobrescu George said:


> Try what Paul said, it should solve the issue.
> 
> If you still want to push things, I would also suggest the following:
> 
> Lower 3-5 kHz by 5-7dB, and increase 100 Hz by 3-5 dB This will push back the midrange, especially the upper midrange, and thicken the sound.



Good catch George, I had the freq wrong earlier (will amend earlier post)




 
The grey is the raw frequency

If you drop the 3-5 kHz (especially parametric with a wide Q) you should be able to address the grain issue.

If you want to add some bass - I'd make it more sub-bass (around 5-60 Hz) for your rise.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Brooko said:


> Good catch George, I had the freq wrong earlier (will amend earlier post)
> 
> 
> The grey is the raw frequency
> ...



I also generally recommend increasing the sub-bass, this is what I do, and mostly decrease the 100 Hz area, but I had a feeling the user might have wanted a slightly thicker sound, which is why I suggested an increase in the 100Hz area/


----------



## Xyrium

I have to agree a bit on this one. It really does sound like he wants girth where it shouldn't be, but, this is another reason why "good" sound is so subjective, speaking objectively of course.


----------



## Indrajit (Dec 15, 2018)

Xyrium said:


> Yep, what Brooko said. I would venture to say that you might actually enjoy the sound of THD (many folks do), whereas the fundamentals in the vocal range on the Schiit gear was literally being masked. The A5 is very neutral IME; what goes in, comes back out. I even had my Beyer DT880/600s on it, with nary an issue, and they aren't exactly lenient when it comes to music reproduction.



My impressions were posted on the basis of selected songs that I have listened time and time again. After listening from the A5 I wasn't getting any details that the Schiit had supposedly masked. I don't know how thd sounds so it could be that I just like thd without knowing how it sounds.
Having said that I got the same kind of details on both A5 and Schiit. The A5 seems faster than Schiit. But the real difference is that A5 presents vocal range which is slightly thin compared to the other frequencies which in turn increases the need to turn up the volume that makes the overall sound too loud to listen. The second difference is that A5 presents the last sounds such as 's' in a very peaky way. I wish there was a way to simply cut off those 's' sounds and leave everything else as it was.

I am pasting the name of song and the moment in the song to be more precise.
The name of song is "Moment of Surrender" by U2. And the moment of shouty vocal is  the stone was semi precious
Stone begins with a 's' that is very painful and this is what I have been alluding to.


----------



## Brooko

Recording sounded pretty awful actually.  Likely its heavily compressed and the sibilance is in the recording.

Just so you can see what U2 has done to its music over time - http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/artist?artist=u2

Back in the 80's they released some excellently recorded albums.  Its not the amp - its the recording.


----------



## Indrajit

Brooko said:


> Recording sounded pretty awful actually.  Likely its heavily compressed and the sibilance is in the recording.
> 
> Just so you can see what U2 has done to its music over time - http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/artist?artist=u2
> 
> Back in the 80's they released some excellently recorded albums.  Its not the amp - its the recording.



Yeah but the Magni made vocals stand out so much


----------



## Brooko

Perhaps the Magni is coloured - the A5 definitely isn't


----------



## Xyrium

Brooko said:


> Perhaps the Magni is coloured - the A5 definitely isn't



That is exactly my take on this. I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying the color that some gear may apply to music. The only issue with this IMO, is that you may be missing out on good timbre, and imaging, etc. For whatever reason, the e12a seemed warmer to me, somewhat like Sennheiser to Beyerdynamics. Perhaps sell the A5 and find an e12a on the used market and try it? I have both hanging off the pre-outs of a Clarett 4 pre, and they sound great.

Needless to say, you could indeed have a defective unit, who knows?


----------



## Indrajit

Xyrium said:


> That is exactly my take on this. I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying the color that some gear may apply to music. The only issue with this IMO, is that you may be missing out on good timbre, and imaging, etc. For whatever reason, the e12a seemed warmer to me, somewhat like Sennheiser to Beyerdynamics. Perhaps sell the A5 and find an e12a on the used market and try it? I have both hanging off the pre-outs of a Clarett 4 pre, and they sound great.
> 
> Needless to say, you could indeed have a defective unit, who knows?



No chance for me to sell the A5 and get the E12A. But if E12A is warmer then could there be a way to manipulate A5's sound to make it sound like the E12A?


----------



## Slater

Indrajit said:


> No chance for me to sell the A5 and get the E12A. But if E12A is warmer then could there be a way to manipulate A5's sound to make it sound like the E12A?



On the A5, if you use it in high gain mode it adds a slight bit of warmth, that sounds more like a tube amp. You’ll obviously need to readjust the volume once going from low gain to high gain.

Someone measured it and found it was introducing a slight bit of distortion to get the desired tube amp effect.

I don’t know how accurate the information is, but if you search in this thread you’ll see where this is discussed.

Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong...


----------



## Brooko

High gain just raises the noise floor.  To get a tube effect it would need to raise even ordered harmonics specifically.  I’ve seen no evidence of that.  I can remeasure - but I don’t think they stand out specifically


----------



## Indrajit

Slater said:


> On the A5, if you use it in high gain mode it adds a slight bit of warmth, that sounds more like a tube amp. You’ll obviously need to readjust the volume once going from low gain to high gain.
> 
> Someone measured it and found it was introducing a slight bit of distortion to get the desired tube amp effect.
> 
> ...



My impressions were posted on high gain. Turning into high gain never brought that wamth.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Brooko said:


> Recording sounded pretty awful actually.  Likely its heavily compressed and the sibilance is in the recording.
> 
> Just so you can see what U2 has done to its music over time - http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/artist?artist=u2
> 
> Back in the 80's they released some excellently recorded albums.  Its not the amp - its the recording.



I really wish more music was recorded more properly and especially mastered more properly. 

Even metallica realised that after Death Magnetic, they needed to slow down in that loudness, and their latest album, hardwired to self destruct, has much less noise and clipping, and although it isn't perfect by any means, now it is very listenable and enjoyable, compared to how noisy and just poor death magnetic was at release, before the remasters were released.


----------



## Spektykles

Hi, how can I open an A5? My A5 now become a paperweight due to bad battery and the warranty was now expired. I bought some spare battery pack from used E12A and would like to replace it. But mine stuck at bass boost switch, it would prevent the unit to be slide out of the frame.


----------



## Slater

Spektykles said:


> Hi, how can I open an A5? My A5 now become a paperweight due to bad battery and the warranty was now expired. I bought some spare battery pack from used E12A and would like to replace it. But mine stuck at bass boost switch, it would prevent the unit to be slide out of the frame.



Gently pull the aluminum bass boost switch straight off with pliers.


----------



## FiiO

Spektykles said:


> Hi, how can I open an A5? My A5 now become a paperweight due to bad battery and the warranty was now expired. I bought some spare battery pack from used E12A and would like to replace it. But mine stuck at bass boost switch, it would prevent the unit to be slide out of the frame.


Dear friend,

We don't have the instruction about disassembling the A5, you may read the instruction for disassembling the E12 for help still:  http://fiio-instruction.fiio.net/Maintenance instructions of Replacing the E12 main board.pdf

Best regards


----------



## TheGiantHogweed

I have just received a FiiO A5 and first impressions is that it is the most disappointing FiiO product I've had. And I've had 7 I think. 

I have the beyerdynamic DT880 premium and yes, they are 600 ohms which probably higher than FiiO would recommend. But as my A3 did pretty much get them to the maximum volume I would listen to them at, I thought this would be more than loud enough. What confuses me is the specifications of the two. 

I am quoting what is on Fiio's site for the A3 here: 
270 mW (32 Ω/THD+N＜1%)

And the A5:
＞800 mW (32 Ω/THD＜1%)


Is that not quite some difference?? 

My A3 on most music is just a tiny bit too loud when on maximum volume with these headphones. But it distorts just slightly. And if you have bass boost on (which I certainly do like sometimes), it then distorts pretty badly when the volume dial is past 7. So that is why I wanted something witha  lot more power. Just to have the freedom of being able to go much louder than I would need to. On my other headphones That are both around 30ohms, being able to go much louder than you need to seems to make them sound better because the amplifier isn't trying too hard. It also makes the dial more responsive without having to move it so much. 

On to the A5. The difference between max volume on both with high gain on with my DT880s is barley anything at all. The A5 certainly sounds a bit cleaner and is at least a bit louder, but i feel there is something that I'm not understanding about the power difference. I also tried with my AKG K550s. As I didn't want to destroy me hearing, i turned my PC volume right down for these. I had both the A5 and A3 on high gain and max volume. The A5 was a bit louder, but not much at all. So, 530mw difference for that?? I don't understand the maths for measuring these things. But when I used my original FiiO E11, that has a 200mw output at 32ohms. That was really really loud with headphones at that impedance. Surely a difference of over 500mw should me more than a tiny little step?

Now onto something else. The bass boost. It really is not nice. My DT880s have a very bright sound. Very happy with the mid range, but the bass sometimes lacks a bit of impact. The bass boost on my E11k so long as i was listening not too close to max volume would boost it nicely. It seemed to focus it on the deep bass and barely effected the other frequencies. The A5 bass boost sounds awful to me. It makes the low midrange sound too heavy and muddy. Also, when i tested a quiet track that had very heavy bass, it distorts a little when close to maximum volume. I really wanted an amplifier with a bass boost, but I haven't had one that boosts the upper bass frequencies as much as this and it just messes up to much of the other sound for me to appreciate it. My A3, E11 E10 and X3 DAP all boost it in a way that somehow sounds much more pleasant even if it is boosted by a bigger margin. The output volume for the size and price of this just doesn't impress me at all. My original X3 i believe is basically the FiiO E17 Dac and amplifier if I am correct. Even that is not far off the A5 listening from the headphone socket. I think the X3 has a boosted line output. But even with that, the A5 doesn't seem to be as loud as I expected.

It does get to the sort of level I shouldn't be listening at for a long time, but if say you were watching a film that happened to be a bit quieter, you couldn't get it any louder. This maybe is my fault for having such hard to drive headphones. But I expected this to have way more power than I would need as for headphone amplifiers, this is pretty expencive. I don't know what it is that my hifi amplifier has in it but that can get them to significantly higher volumes than this. And being a headphone amplifier is not it's purpose. It was barely any more expensive for that matter either. It is a Pioneer A-209R. Getting to just under half way on the dial and it is impossible to go any louder without hurting your ears. But it allows you to go louder if your source is quiet or something. Also, unlike the all my Fiio Amplifiers which all seem to distort when close to max volume with bass boost on, on this you can turn the bass dial up to full as well as putting loudness on which boosts it even further, and there is no distortion at all. It sounds bad because of the quantity it adds. But why does this not have any problems with this and an expensive headphone amplifier does? The main purpose of this amplifier is to drive my speakers, not headphones. The reason why I don't like using this for headphones is because the of the level of inputs I have. So many that it is next to impossible to stop there being interference coming through the outputs. That is far more noticeable on headphones than speakers. 

The other thing that I'm not very happy about the A5 is the volume dial. It has a nice ridged surface. But only at the back... It may have a ring that adds some grip but right at the front is a super smooth metal disc. Having it sat on my desk makes it so difficult to turn the dial. It feels just like you are turning it but the volume doesn't change and that was just because i couldn't grip it. Unless you really try to get a firm grip, it is not good to use on a flat surface, which was my plan for it's main use. Although I have tried putting a tiny rubber band round the edge and that has made quite some difference. I'm not sure why FiiO went with this design of dial. On my E10, E11, and A3, they all have a grooved finish right to the edge. meaning that using it on a desk by just sliding your finger on them works perfectly. 


Sadly, I think I'm going to return this. But I really am stuck with what sort of amplifier I need to have the ability to get more volume out of these. I'll see if I can wait for some advice first though.


----------



## Xyrium

Those ratings would indicate to me that the A5 offers higher current while the A3 higher voltage. As you get higher in the impedance range, I believe the higher voltage units tend to perform well. What's their ratings into 600Ohms? I agree on the volume knob of the A5, terrible, wish they kept the e12a knob. However, I never had a prob with my 880/600's when I had them on the A5, though I'll admit, I drove them with high level sources, even a headphone output at one point (not the best).


----------



## Slater

TheGiantHogweed said:


> I have just received a FiiO A5 and first impressions is that it is the most disappointing FiiO product I've had. And I've had 7 I think.
> 
> I have the beyerdynamic DT880 premium and yes, they are 600 ohms which probably higher than FiiO would recommend. But as my A3 did pretty much get them to the maximum volume I would listen to them at, I thought this would be more than loud enough. What confuses me is the specifications of the two.
> 
> ...



I hated the volume knob as well. Just awful.

I used an o-ring, which solved all of the knob issues: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-19vp-p-12-hours.819831/page-48#post-14346913





As far as the sound, have you considered changing out the opamp? It's inexpensive to do so, and it might give you the improvement you're looking for. You can add a socket, to make opamp rolling easy.  Maybe go with the same opamp used in the A3?

That might be worth trying before getting rid of the A5.


----------



## TheGiantHogweed

Xyrium said:


> Those ratings would indicate to me that the A5 offers higher current while the A3 higher voltage. As you get higher in the impedance range, I believe the higher voltage units tend to perform well. What's their ratings into 600Ohms? I agree on the volume knob of the A5, terrible, wish they kept the e12a knob. However, I never had a prob with my 880/600's when I had them on the A5, though I'll admit, I drove them with high level sources, even a headphone output at one point (not the best).



Here are some specs on the site. Mine are the 600ohm premium edition. https://europe.beyerdynamic.com/dt-880-edition.html

I'm not saying that it doesn't get them loud. It does. But barely any louder than my A3. And As I said, I tried with 32 ohm headphones and turned the input volume down, put both the A3 and A5 at maximum volume and there still was only a marginal difference. This was with my AKG K550s which are very easy to drive. I got this amp as many seemed to indicate it had too much power for IEMs and many other headphones. I do wonder if my DT880s could do with something even more powerful.


----------



## TheGiantHogweed

Slater said:


> I hated the volume knob as well. Just awful.
> 
> I used an o-ring, which solved all of the knob issues: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-19vp-p-12-hours.819831/page-48#post-14346913
> 
> ...



I don't know anything about opamps or things like that. I'm not sure what I would have to do. I'm also just not that happy that there are several things which I fine a bit poor about the A5. I feel there are too many to make it worth spending any more on sorting one of them. The dial may be a simple fix, but I like to have an option to boost the bass by a simple switch but this just seems to make everything in the lower end sound so muddy and boomy.

Thanks for the advice though. If there had just been one think that I didn't like about the A5, it probably would have been worth sorting out.


----------



## Xyrium (Dec 28, 2018)

TheGiantHogweed said:


> Here are some specs on the site. Mine are the 600ohm premium edition. https://europe.beyerdynamic.com/dt-880-edition.html
> 
> I'm not saying that it doesn't get them loud. It does. But barely any louder than my A3. And As I said, I tried with 32 ohm headphones and turned the input volume down, put both the A3 and A5 at maximum volume and there still was only a marginal difference. This was with my AKG K550s which are very easy to drive. I got this amp as many seemed to indicate it had too much power for IEMs and many other headphones. I do wonder if my DT880s could do with something even more powerful.



THanks, I've owned the 880/600's, and one thing interesting about those cans is that though they are high impedance, I recall reading that their phase angle isn't difficult to drive. However, they aren't considered inefficient. So, it may still not take much power to get them going, and the reason why I had no problem with them on my A5. Keep in mind, they also aren't powerful. The power rating on them is only something like 150mW or less, from what I recall. 

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880600ohm.pdf

https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones


----------



## TheGiantHogweed

I'm starting to wonder if i could get a DAC for my PC with a boosted line out. I currently use this: http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=103

I use the phono output with a phono to 3.5mm cable to my A3. Maybe my A3 could be perfect if the output of the DAC was louder. So i could quite possibly be after a much better DAC rather than an amplifier. if I was getting a replacement DAC, I would want at least as many inputs as my current one, but if the output was louder, I wouldn't need an amplifier built in. I'm looking into this one: https://www.richersounds.com/hi-fi/dacs/cambridge-dac-magic-100-blk.html

A bit of a step up in price though. But I don't know what specs to look for to know how loud the output is. I should maybe consider starting a thread for this.


----------



## Shane D (Dec 30, 2018)

I have been looking at this amp for at least a year and probably longer. I finally decided to press the buy button today.

I was thinking HARD About a big strong desktop amp, but I don't really need it with the 'phones I have.
I used to have an iFi amp with tons of power, but it never really impressed me. Except for the bass boost and 3D sound. I loved that bass boost on my Grado's.  When I got rid of the HD6XX's, I also sold the amp as I figured I didn't NEED it for my other 'phones.

Going back around I was looking at various Schiit amps, JDS Atom and Monoprice Liquid Spark. But none of these have bass boost. While I was thinking about it, I ordered a Topping NX3s. Not bad, but you do get what you pay for.

The New Year brings an A5 and a new-to-me T5p.2 set of 'phones.

And a promise to not buy anything else audio in 2019...

Shane D


----------



## Xyrium

Shane D said:


> I have been looking at this amp for at least a year and probably longer. I finally decided to press the buy button today.
> 
> I was thinking HARD About a big strong desktop amp, but I don't really need it with the 'phones I have.
> I used to have an iFi amp with tons of power, but it never really impressed me. Except for the bass boost and 3D sound. I loved that bass boost on my Grado's.  When I got rid of the HD6XX's, I also sold the amp as I figured I didn't NEED it for my other 'phones.
> ...


Congrats on the new gear. The A5 seems dead neutral  to my ears, and with my current set of cans (Senn 58xxx, AT 40x, and Massdrop EDC3's,). I get a full spectrum of sounds. The 40x's have a little more bass, but better quality than the 50x to my ears, the 58xx are warm-neutral, and the EDC3's, really flat. I believe your cans will dictate the sonic signature more than the amp. Go 300 Ohms or less, and the A5 will deliver the goods.


----------



## Shane D

Xyrium said:


> Congrats on the new gear. The A5 seems dead neutral  to my ears, and with my current set of cans (Senn 58xxx, AT 40x, and Massdrop EDC3's,). I get a full spectrum of sounds. The 40x's have a little more bass, but better quality than the 50x to my ears, the 58xx are warm-neutral, and the EDC3's, really flat. I believe your cans will dictate the sonic signature more than the amp. Go 300 Ohms or less, and the A5 will deliver the goods.



Thanks for the reply. Do you find yourself using bass boost much?

Shane D


----------



## Xyrium

To be honest, not at all.


----------



## Shane D

Xyrium said:


> To be honest, not at all.



That is about what I figured. I don't see me using it on every headphone, every band or every song. Just like to have the option.

Shane D


----------



## Slater (Dec 31, 2018)

Shane D said:


> That is about what I figured. I don't see me using it on every headphone, every band or every song. Just like to have the option.
> 
> Shane D



Agreed. It’s nice to have, but nowadays I rarely use it.

Only on really boring/anemic headphones or some pre-loudness war music that lack dynamics due to deficiencies in recording gear or poor mastering.


----------



## Shane D

Slater said:


> Agreed. It’s nice to have, but nowadays I rarely use it.
> 
> Only on really boring/anemic headphones or some pre-loudness war music that lack dynamics due to deficiencies in recording gear or poor mastering.



I am curious as to how my Grado's will handle it. I love their sound, but they feel a little bass shy. I tend to EQ a little bit of bass in, depending on the music, but this might be a little easier.

Just testing out my new to me T5p.2's.Wow! I can't even use high gain on balanced output from my DAP.

Shane D


----------



## Slater (Dec 31, 2018)

Shane D said:


> I am curious as to how my Grado's will handle it. I love their sound, but they feel a little bass shy. I tend to EQ a little bit of bass in, depending on the music, but this might be a little easier.
> 
> Just testing out my new to me T5p.2's.Wow! I can't even use high gain on balanced output from my DAP.
> 
> Shane D



My beef with bass boost (not just FiiO but any bass boost), is there’s no control over the frequency range or boost amount. You may only want to boost sub bass to address some roll off, but if a bass boost switch is also boosting the whole range all the way through mid bass too, you may not want that. Especially if a particular headphone already has too much mid bass to begin with. Now you have a bloated bleeding mess.

That’s why I tweak with pad rolling and EQ long before I ever use the bass boost switch.

Or I use it when listening at reaaal low volume, to help boost the whole bottom end like the old loudness switches. But when I do that it’s because I’m using headphones for background music while studying or something, not for critical listening.

To each his own though. I’m glad my FiiO amps have the switch. I’d rather have it and not use it, then not have it and wish I did.


----------



## TheGiantHogweed (Dec 31, 2018)

Shane D said:


> Thanks for the reply. Do you find yourself using bass boost much?
> 
> Shane D



As I said in my earlier post, this is the worst FiiO device I've had in terms of the bass boost. It swamps all the bottom end of the midrange and just messes it up to much. If it was a badly mastered recording, using this would just sound horrid. Even though I think my FiiO E11 boosts it even more, it clearly focuses it at a lower frequency and doesn't have this effect on the mid range. The Boost on my E10, A3 and X3 all are cleaner too.

There was nothing wrong at all with the quality of the A5. It did slightly improve the sound quality over the A3, but only slightly. But it wasn't much louder at all and I personally had too many niggles with the design of the build. Because of that and the bass boost, I'm unfortunately going to return it. But that shouldn't put anyone off it's performance with headphones that are easier to drive than mine.

Edit:

I will also add something that I found in a members review on the frequency response of the bass boost. This was on the review by Brooko. The A5 first.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amplifier.21888/

On the close up picture of the bass boost with it on, you can just see how much it boost the frequencies right up as high as 500hz. As if that is bass?! It rolls off so slowly that according to the graph, the "bass" boost is still boosting the volume at 1000hz. I should have seen this before buying I guess.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-kilimanjaro-2-e11k-portable-headphone-amplifier.20228/reviews

This is the A3 review. If you find Brooko's review again, you can see how much more focussed the A3 is at actually boosting the bass at a more realistic frequency.  It has a very steep bump at around 75 hz, then very quickly drops off. By the time the graph is at 200 hz, the bass boost line is only just above it which indicates it is not boosting that frequency much.

I find the A3's boost excellent for my DT880s. They have very bright treble and midrange and are a little lacking in bass. But it boosts that without messing up anything else. I don't know who would actually benefit an improvement sound wise using the bass boost on the A3 unless they want a midrange boost too.


----------



## Shane D

TheGiantHogweed said:


> As I said in my earlier post, this is the worst FiiO device I've had in terms of the bass boost. It swamps all the bottom end of the midrange and just messes it up to much. If it was a badly mastered recording, using this would just sound horrid. Even though I think my FiiO E11 boosts it even more, it clearly focuses it at a lower frequency and doesn't have this effect on the mid range. The Boost on my E10, A3 and X3 all are cleaner too.
> 
> There was nothing wrong at all with the quality of the A5. It did slightly improve the sound quality over the A3, but only slightly. But it wasn't much louder at all and I personally had too many niggles with the design of the build. Because of that and the bass boost, I'm unfortunately going to return it. But that shouldn't put anyone off it's performance with headphones that are easier to drive than mine.



I probably don't need an amp as my 'phones are pretty easy to drive and I don't listen real loud. I Just want to see what kind of difference it makes and if bass boost is any use at all to me. I am thinking that my HE4XX and possibly my Grado might get something out of it. I have my Z7's packed away for sale, but if it comes in while they are still here I would be curious to try it with them. Bass boost would definitely be a no go with them.


Shane D


----------



## TheGiantHogweed

Shane D said:


> I probably don't need an amp as my 'phones are pretty easy to drive and I don't listen real loud. I Just want to see what kind of difference it makes and if bass boost is any use at all to me. I am thinking that my HE4XX and possibly my Grado might get something out of it. I have my Z7's packed away for sale, but if it comes in while they are still here I would be curious to try it with them. Bass boost would definitely be a no go with them.
> 
> 
> Shane D



I sometimes find having features that make devices sound worse good because you then still have an option to make it sound better than that. turn it off!   Basically like a direct button on a stereo amplifier. So nice to have other features even if they mess the sound up, but you at least have a pure sound option.


----------



## TheGiantHogweed

I'd edited my post you quoted shane and it has some more information now about the boost if you are interested.


----------



## Brooko

To make it easier - here are some comparisons - I remeasured this morning


----------



## Slater

Brooko said:


> To make it easier - here are some comparisons - I remeasured this morning



This is very useful to see this comparison. What I’m hearing makes total sense.

I only wish FiiO implemented the A5 like they did on the E11K.


----------



## Shane D

TheGiantHogweed said:


> I'd edited my post you quoted shane and it has some more information now about the boost if you are interested.



It was interesting and got me thinking. I can't help but wonder if the A3 wouldn't be a better option for me.

I almost bought a Liquid Spark or Atom, but this was a tiny bit cheaper, I didn't really need the extra power and I like the idea of a bass option.

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

Also...Happy New Year!

Shane D


----------



## TheGiantHogweed

Shane D said:


> It was interesting and got me thinking. I can't help but wonder if the A3 wouldn't be a better option for me.
> 
> I almost bought a Liquid Spark or Atom, but this was a tiny bit cheaper, I didn't really need the extra power and I like the idea of a bass option.
> 
> Shane D



I think it is interesting to see the direct comparison that brooko has just posted. It just shows how much the A5 boosts EVERYTHING in the low end and even more than that too. Even looks to be boosting 1000hz by 1db. The Q1II doesn't look much better. Maybe older FiiO devices were usually boosting the bass in a very specific area which usually seems to be below or around 100hz and then steeply rolls off.


----------



## Xyrium

It's VERY interesting actually. I would never peg the A5 as bass heavy, nor would I have it tilted upwards in the lower mids. I just poked around and only found one other site doing measurements of Fiio stuff, and it was the old Q1, which measured flat on this guy's AP. 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-mark-ii-portable-dac-and-headphone-amp.4074/


----------



## Slater

Xyrium said:


> It's VERY interesting actually. I would never peg the A5 as bass heavy, nor would I have it tilted upwards in the lower mids. I just poked around and only found one other site doing measurements of Fiio stuff, and it was the old Q1, which measured flat on this guy's AP.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-mark-ii-portable-dac-and-headphone-amp.4074/



It’s only bass heavy when you turn on the bass boost switch. With bass boost off, it’s extremely neutral.


----------



## Brooko

Xyrium said:


> It's VERY interesting actually. I would never peg the A5 as bass heavy, nor would I have it tilted upwards in the lower mids. I just poked around and only found one other site doing measurements of Fiio stuff, and it was the old Q1, which measured flat on this guy's AP.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-mark-ii-portable-dac-and-headphone-amp.4074/


Measures flat on mine too.  But the request was for measurement of the bass boost - which is what I’ve shown.


----------



## Xyrium

Ahh, that makes sense. You had me frightened that I was going deaf for a minute! LOL 

Sorry, I saw the graph and jumped to conclusions! Phew!

That said, I'm stunned that the Q is so low on that EQ. It's terrible, what were they thinking?


----------



## Slater

Xyrium said:


> Ahh, that makes sense. You had me frightened that I was going deaf for a minute! LOL
> 
> Sorry, I saw the graph and jumped to conclusions! Phew!
> 
> That said, I'm stunned that the Q is so low on that EQ. It's terrible, what were they thinking?



I’d love to know if the Q can be tweaked or controlled somehow, like by changing out a resistor to a different value.

Any electrical engineers or power amp designers among us that are willing to take a look at the FiiO board?


----------



## Xyrium

That would be pretty cool, because it may just be a passive filter instead of IC-based. If we could drag that down to around 40Hz, and keep the Q tight enough to only impact one octave, that would be awesome for folks with cans that aren't substantial enough in the low end department.


----------



## Spektykles

Hi, here is my A5 after mod. Feels very good, better than the previous E12DIY I tried. Right now Im using stock Muses02, muses03/ad797/opa627/lme49990 I will try it later when things arrived


----------



## Slater

Spektykles said:


> Hi, here is my A5 after mod. Feels very good, better than the previous E12DIY I tried. Right now Im using stock Muses02, muses03/ad797/opa627/lme49990 I will try it later when things arrived



Nice clean work!

So what did you do other than the socketed opamp?


----------



## Spektykles

Slater said:


> Nice clean work!
> 
> So what did you do other than the socketed opamp?


Replaced original WIMA MKS2 cap with Nichicon ES one (47uf 16v) and socketed opamp (Asahi silver-tin solder). Maybe in the future I will replace those power cap with Sanyo OSCON one and hook some bypass cap too.


----------



## CapnCook

If the battery is fully charged, but the unit remains plugged in while in use, is the battery in use?

I prefer the sound of the A5 over my desktop amp, but I don't want to diminish the battery life using it all day every day at work.


----------



## FiiO

CapnCook said:


> If the battery is fully charged, but the unit remains plugged in while in use, is the battery in use?
> 
> I prefer the sound of the A5 over my desktop amp, but I don't want to diminish the battery life using it all day every day at work.


Dear friend, 
After the battery is full,because there is no need to charge the battery anymore, the USB port would power the device directly.  The battery would neither be charged nor discharged.
But it is recommended to finish charging first. Because you may receive current interference when charging at the same time which affect the output .  

Best regards


----------



## CapnCook

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> After the battery is full,because there is no need to charge the battery anymore, the USB port would power the device directly.  The battery would neither be charged nor discharged.
> But it is recommended to finish charging first. Because you may receive current interference when charging at the same time which affect the output .
> 
> Best regards


Excellent. It's very good to know about the current interference while charging. I had not thought about that possibility.

As always, FiiO, thank you for your great products and your excellent presence in the community.


----------



## Xyrium

You won't hear any interference unless you have a problematic mains supply. I run both my e12a and a5 always powered, and they're dead quiet. Good stuff!


----------



## Shane D

Got my A5 today. Charging it tonight and start using it tomorrow. And yes, I'm a little excited.


Shane D


----------



## CapnCook

Xyrium said:


> You won't hear any interference unless you have a problematic mains supply. I run both my e12a and a5 always powered, and they're dead quiet. Good stuff!


Great to know, thanks. 



Shane D said:


> Got my A5 today. Charging it tonight and start using it tomorrow. And yes, I'm a little excited.
> Shane D



Hope you enjoy. I am definitely happy with my purchase.


----------



## Shane D

I am really curious about what it does to the music. Especially with HiFiman HE4XX's and Grado's.

Shane D


----------



## Slater

Shane D said:


> I am really curious about what it does to the music. Especially with HiFiman HE4XX's and Grado's.
> 
> Shane D



I'm sure you'll like it.

On low gain (no bass boost), it's neutral and just provides clean amplification.

On High gain (no bass boost), it adds a tube amp-like sound (to my ears anyways). Some others have mentioned this as well. I think at least 1 person measured a bit of distortion on high gain, which is what causes this effect. YMMV.

Bass boost is pretty significant IMO, and is over pretty much the entire bass range. I rarely use bass boost.

You're probably gonna hate the volume wheel. It's quite slippery. I would recommend replacing the stock volume knob o-ring with a thicker one:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-19vp-p-12-hours.819831/page-48#post-14346913





Also, if you need a cable, the genuine FiiO cables are a ridiculous bargain. Very high quality (Oyaide plugs w/Furukawa OFC SPC cable).

https://www.amazon.com/d/Stereo-Jack-Cables/Right-Angle-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-L17/B00R9WAYC6
https://www.amazon.com/L16-Stereo-Audio-Cable-Connectors/dp/B00KL7C10O


----------



## Shane D (Jan 9, 2019)

Slater said:


> I'm sure you'll like it.
> 
> On High gain (no bass boost), it adds a tube amp-like sound (to my ears anyways). Some others have mentioned this as well. I think at least 1 person measured a bit of distortion on high gain, which is what causes this effect. YMMV.
> 
> ...



Cool on the affordable cables. I have a lot of respect for Fiio and their products. My DAP search came down to the Fiio X7 II and the Sony ZX300. I chose the Sony because of familiarity, but really liked the X7.

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

Trying out my new amp and pretty happy. Only a half hour in so far. First trial is Grado GH2's, Sony DAP on low gain and A5 on high gain with bass boost on. Black Stone Cherry is sounding fine! And fun.

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

Wow, that battery goes fast. used for about five hours yesterday and less than one hour today and dead. It was high gain and bass boost on, but still...

Shane D


----------



## Slater

Shane D said:


> Wow, that battery goes fast. used for about five hours yesterday and less than one hour today and dead. It was high gain and bass boost on, but still...
> 
> Shane D



Yeah, it definitely has less battery life than the E12A for example. But A5 is also more powerful, so it’s a trade off.

If I had a choice, I would have preferred a slightly larger case in exchange for more battery life.


----------



## Shane D

Slater said:


> Yeah, it definitely has less battery life than the E12A for example. But A5 is also more powerful, so it’s a trade off.
> 
> If I had a choice, I would have preferred a slightly larger case in exchange for more battery life.



Ditto that! I actually expected it to be bigger. I thought it would be comparable to my LG V30, but it's only the size of my Sony DAP.

Shane D


----------



## Slater (Jan 13, 2019)

Shane D said:


> Ditto that! I actually expected it to be bigger. I thought it would be comparable to my LG V30, but it's only the size of my Sony DAP.
> 
> Shane D



BTW, you should be getting more than 6 hours from the A5. Was is used or something? What volume do you use?

What kind of cans are you driving? If it’s something with really low sensitivity, I can see it sucking the battery.

As far as the size, of they had made it the same size as the X5, there would have been plenty of room for a heck of a beefy battery with loads of runtime. If only I had a 3D printer...


----------



## Shane D

Slater said:


> BTW, you should be getting more than 6 hours from the A5. Was is used or something? What volume do you use?
> 
> What kind of cans are you driving? If it’s something with really low sensitivity, I can see it sucking the battery.



I was running my Grado GH2's which are Very easy to drive. Low gain from DAP into high gain from A5 with bass boost locked on. Volume at 1:00.

My DAP (Sony ZX300) seemed to go forever the first few months. Then I bought balanced cables and started using balanced output. Sound quality went through the roof and longevity went through the basement.

Always a price to pay.

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

Just to follow up, only five hours again today.
Sony DAP SE low gain out - A5 high gain out half volume with bass boost on - Grado GH2's (very easy to drive headphones).

Seems very short?

Shane D


----------



## stuck limo

A5 high gain volume at half or at 2 o'clock running Senn 600 gets me 12 to 13 hours. Maybe your battery is old or defective.


----------



## CapnCook

stuck limo said:


> A5 high gain volume at half or at 2 o'clock running Senn 600 gets me 12 to 13 hours. Maybe your battery is old or defective.


Also using bass boost?


----------



## stuck limo

CapnCook said:


> Also using bass boost?



No, which may or may not be why.


----------



## Shane D

Okay, so tomorrow no bass boost and see what happens. Athough the only reason I was bought it was bass boost. Otherwise I would have gotten a Liquid Spark or a JDS Atom.

Shane D


----------



## CapnCook

Based on your alternatives (Liquid Spark/Atom), it seems your use case does not require a battery?


----------



## Shane D (Jan 15, 2019)

CapnCook said:


> Based on your alternatives (Liquid Spark/Atom), it seems your use case does not require a battery?



Nope. It is for my home listening station. Also known as the lazy boy.

Shane D

PS: I just realized: I can just keep it plugged in, as I would a desk top.


----------



## CapnCook

Oh.....I use mine similarly at the desk. Get a 5v2a plug, and you're good to go. 

Still will be curious how much bass boost was affecting the battery life.


----------



## Slater (Jan 15, 2019)

stuck limo said:


> A5 high gain volume at half or at 2 o'clock running Senn 600 gets me 12 to 13 hours. Maybe your battery is old or defective.



I measured mine 2 days ago and got 11.5 hours on low gain and no bass boost.

@Shane D, all li-ion batteries slowly lose capacity as they age. Look at cell phones - within ~12-24 months the battery capacity is significantly reduced.

There’s no way bass boost will cause a reduction from 12 all the way down to a measly 5 hours.

It’s clear that your battery has reduced capacity due to age or charge cycles, an internal cell defect, exposure to high heat, or storage for a long period of time in a deeply discharged state such as sitting in inventory for a long time (which causes permanent internal chemical changes to the electrolyte).

Was your unit a demo unit, used, open box, or refurbished by any chance?

All you’d need to do is install a new battery and it will be good as new.


----------



## Shane D

Slater said:


> I measured mine 2 days ago and got 11.5 hours.
> 
> @Shane D, all li-ion batteries slowly lose capacity as they age. Look at cell phones - within ~12-24 months the battery capacity is significantly reduced.
> 
> ...



This is a brand new unit, supposedly.

Shane D


----------



## Slater

Shane D said:


> This is a brand new unit, supposedly.
> 
> Shane D



Well, if you don’t care because you’re just going to use it plugged in, then I wouldn’t worry about it. However, you would have justification for an exchange since it is a new unit and you literally just got it. Now would be the time to do it, vs 3 years from now when the battery is so reduced it only provides 15 minutes of power lol


----------



## Shane D

Slater said:


> Well, if you don’t care because you’re just going to use it plugged in, then I wouldn’t worry about it. However, you would have justification for an exchange since it is a new unit and you literally just got it. Now would be the time to do it, vs 3 years from now when the battery is so reduced it only provides 15 minutes of power lol



True, but if it is defective, then I don't want it. It would be awesome if James would pop in and comment on this. I will try it without the bass boost but that might take a few days.

Shane D


----------



## Slater (Jan 15, 2019)

Shane D said:


> True, but if it is defective, then I don't want it. It would be awesome if James would pop in and comment on this. I will try it without the bass boost but that might take a few days.
> 
> Shane D



Understood. I’d send it back then. You paid for a new unit, and should get an advertised battery life representative of a new unit.

Be aware that the battery is easily replaceable. If FiiO can ship you a new one, that would be awesome because the battery just plugs right into the board. You’d only need to remove 2 screws, pull off the volume knob, and pop off the bass boost switch. The whole process would take 5 minutes tops.

The point I was making earlier is that all of our A5s will have reduced capacity batteries at some point.

Mine is 11.5hrs now, but at some point in the future it will be 8 hours. Then 5 hours. Then it won’t hold a charge at all.

It’s not an actual battery defect, as it affects every rechargeable battery in existence, regardless of whether it’s a 12v lead car battery or li-po battery in an iPhone.


----------



## Shane D

Slater said:


> Understood. I’d send it back then.
> 
> Just keep in mind all of our A5s will have reduced capacity batteries at some point.
> 
> ...



I get what your saying. Our phones are perfect examples of this. I just sent a PM to FiiO and will see if they respond. I am curious how much bass boost adds to the draw. Either way, I'd like to know.

I bought this because I did not see any comparable amps (money wise) with bass boost. I did buy a Topping NX3s just for fun. I really should compare them.


Shane D


----------



## CapnCook

Shane D said:


> I get what your saying. Our phones are perfect examples of this. I just sent a PM to FiiO and will see if they respond. I am curious how much bass boost adds to the draw. Either way, I'd like to know.
> 
> I bought this because I did not see any comparable amps (money wise) with bass boost. I did buy a Topping NX3s just for fun. *I really should compare them.*
> 
> ...


Did you? Results, please


----------



## Shane D

CapnCook said:


> Did you? Results, please



Sorry, but I didn't get around to it. I gave my A5 a 24 hour charge and now it seems to be lasting longer. I got four hours yesterday and am currently two + hours in today.

I just ended up buying my third amp in about 8 weeks. The previous two have just been chasing my original amp. I found a Great deal on a demo and re-bought my original amp, an iFi Micro iCAN SE. I never needed a portable amp to start with.
Should be here today. I will sell the Topping and probably the A5.

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

Another update on battery life. Again, I gave them a 24 hour charge. 
Thursday I got 4+ hours, Friday I got 5.5 hours and today I got 2 hours. So, about 11.5 hours. For sure 11 hours. IMO, that is very acceptable.

So, they really do need a Long charge.

To reiterate, my usage is high gain at 1:00 with bass boost on.

I guess I will be running these long term. I bought (re-bought actually) an iFi MICRO Icann SE amplifier. It arrived yesterday DOA. Will not power up. Dealer mentioned it might need a new battery???
He offered a refund and hopefully he will cover the shipping back.
SO disappointing.

Shane D


----------



## alunx

Please, help me 
Samsung Galaxy S9+ with Fiio A5
or
Fiio M9 ( stand alone Hi-res player with AMP )


----------



## WitzyZed

alunx said:


> Please, help me
> Samsung Galaxy S9+ with Fiio A5
> or
> Fiio M9 ( stand alone Hi-res player with AMP )



Stacking onto a phone I've never found really that convenient, but you're going to have a greater choice of applications with your smart phone. If you like your audio experience uninterrupted go with a DAP.


----------



## Spektykles

My A5 after some serious mod. The Nichicon UES caps was not good enough for me so I will popin the Audio Note Kaisei NP caps.


----------



## Slater

Spektykles said:


> My A5 after some serious mod. The Nichicon UES caps was not good enough for me so I will popin the Audio Note Kaisei NP caps.



Nice mods!

Since portability is out the window now, you may as well swap out the battery for a much larger one now (like a bank of high cap 18650s). Get some insane runtimes


----------



## CapnCook

alunx said:


> Please, help me
> Samsung Galaxy S9+ with Fiio A5
> or
> Fiio M9 ( stand alone Hi-res player with AMP )



It kinda depends on your use cases and your goal. Is this end game for you, or do you expect to venture more into the rabbit hole of audiophilia? Are you looking for the ultimate in portability or is versatility desired? Are you fixed on the S9+?

For me, I enjoy tinkering and will likely never have an end game. I like the versatility, too, since I have portable sources and more stationary ones. So, I would go with a (different - LG) phone+a5.

With the a5, I can use my phone, my DAP, or my desktop DAC. But if I just wanted to get the best of all worlds and be done with it, and that was going to be my only source, I'd go for the M9. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## stuck limo

Spektykles said:


> My A5 after some serious mod. The Nichicon UES caps was not good enough for me so I will popin the Audio Note Kaisei NP caps.



Is there a guide for this type of mod (or any mods for this unit)?  Can you give some impressions of the sound quality after the upgrade?


----------



## Spektykles

stuck limo said:


> Is there a guide for this type of mod (or any mods for this unit)?  Can you give some impressions of the sound quality after the upgrade?


Well, I replaced the soldered Muses02 with socket for opamp rolling. Replaced caps with the one that suit my music tastes. Also added some caps for coupling/bypass only when its necessary and made changes to the board, since I also using very sensitive opamps like OPA627 or AD797, requires careful measurements. I will not comment on SQ because its very subjective but I would say A5 as a platform is very flexible, itself the quality is very good if not the best amp Fiio made, but hampered by badly choice crucial parts, such as opamp.


----------



## Adityaseven7

Does anyone know the upgrade cycle of Fiio's Dacs and amps? A5 is almost 2.5 years in, so i'm just wondering...
Also waiting and hoping they make a new K5 Dac+Amp in 2019


----------



## Spektykles (Feb 14, 2019)

Another update to my "Super A5" project
Decided to go full Audionote Kaisei NP caps wherever I can (still have 2 SMD caps with odd value left, waiting another drop from Mouser). Initial impression are much wider soundstage, treble-focused sound out of the box, after some hr of burnin sound become much darker, sweet and less treble. Overall a much more pleasant sound than the metallic, harsh sound of Nichicon UES caps previously installed.
Also I found out that the positions of 4 smaller caps are hookup in parallel config, giving much more quality sound when used correct caps but also real bad audio in stock config (unbranded SMD caps + WIMA caps).


----------



## Spektykles (Mar 4, 2019)

Slater said:


> Nice mods!
> 
> Since portability is out the window now, you may as well swap out the battery for a much larger one now (like a bank of high cap 18650s). Get some insane runtimes


You gave me an interesting idea so I just done it. Made a new battery pack for my "Super A5". Took 3 generic cell phone 3.7v 1880mah battery that fit the dimension of stock battery but thicker and stacked it together, stock 11.1v 880mah (3 cells 3.7v) -> modded 11.1v 5640mah (3 cells 1880mah 3.7v). Recycled the stock battery circuit and wires, also each battery cell have their own protection circuit too. Charging time also slower but Im using hi-power cell phone charger (5V 2.5A) so it should be fine. Now I can use it for days without charging


----------



## Slater (Mar 4, 2019)

Spektykles said:


> You gave me an interesting idea so I just done it. Made a new battery pack for my "Super A5". Took 3 generic cell phone 3.7v 1880mah battery that fit the dimension of stock battery but thicker and stacked it together, stock 11.1v 880mah (3 cells 3.7v) -> modded 11.1v 5640mah (3 cells 1880mah 3.7v). Recycled the stock battery circuit and wires, also each battery cell have their own protection circuit too. Charging time also slower but Im using hi-power cell phone charger (5V 2.5A) so it should be fine. Now I can use it for days without charging



Very slick 

I also like that you didn’t have to add a balanced charging board, since you used protected batteries.


----------



## Palash

My A5 Modification - Removed MUSESO2 from PCB and soldered DIP8 IC socket , so can I change Op Amps. First tried LME49720 and improvement is jaw dropping. After hours of testing replaced LME49720 and placed TL072. Now I am satisfied truly. Same performance like LME49720 but less treble and better Mids.


----------



## Mad Max

Spektykles said:


> Another update to my "Super A5" project
> Decided to go full Audionote Kaisei NP caps wherever I can (still have 2 SMD caps with odd value left, waiting another drop from Mouser). Initial impression are much wider soundstage, treble-focused sound out of the box, after some hr of burnin sound become much darker, sweet and less treble. Overall a much more pleasant sound than the metallic, harsh sound of Nichicon UES caps previously installed.
> Also I found out that the positions of 4 smaller caps are hookup in parallel config, giving much more quality sound when used correct caps but also real bad audio in stock config (unbranded SMD caps + WIMA caps).


Yeah, Nich ES caps just shouldn't be used in audio circuits ever, but a handful around here would disagree.

I think WIMAs are very nice but if you get the MKP4 400V or 630V versions. Very bulky, though. I don't like using the 63V caps if I can avoid them.

I recommend trying out the Vishay MKP1839, my #1 favorite film cap for PSU rails. Even the 160V is very, very good (the lowest voltage version in the product line).


----------



## Spektykles

Mad Max said:


> Yeah, Nich ES caps just shouldn't be used in audio circuits ever, but a handful around here would disagree.
> 
> I think WIMAs are very nice but if you get the MKP4 400V or 630V versions. Very bulky, though. I don't like using the 63V caps if I can avoid them.
> 
> I recommend trying out the Vishay MKP1839, my #1 favorite film cap for PSU rails. Even the 160V is very, very good (the lowest voltage version in the product line).


Thanks for the advice. At first I wanted to use film caps (Mundorf MCaps to be exact) but I switched to electrolytic type due to the size of good films caps. Choose AN Kaisei due to its characteristic very similar to BlackGate one, but I also supplement the Kaisei with WIMA FKP3 caps wherever I can fit one.


----------



## Mad Max

AN Kaisei is BlackGates-like?
Oh wow.
Supposedly so were the Rubycon MCZ caps, but those are now discontinued these days as well.  I didn't stockpile some when I could have years ago due to forgetfulness, lol
I have not tried actual BlackGates themselves, though, so these are just dumb rumors for all I know

For sure, though, those MCZs rock and I love using them in analogue supply rails (I prefer Oscons for digital) when possible.  They only go up to 16V, though.


----------



## whoever81

Greetings. I was wondering what's the difference in sound output/quality between FiiO A5/FiiO K3/FiiO Q1 II.


----------



## jpierre

i would like to know if anyone could compare the FIIO A5 with ifi audio nano or ifi audio xcan for a meze 99 classic thanks


----------



## Degru (Oct 20, 2019)

Does keeping the amp plugged in and turned on affect the battery lifespan? I want to use it like I would a desktop unit, but I notice it getting pretty warm and am worried the battery could die like it does on Chord Mojo when used like that.

EDIT: Doing a test rn. Fully charged fiio a5 while turned off until light stops flashing. Turned on, without unplugging it. USB current draw did not budge from 0.01 even after playing music loudly through some lower impedance headphones. This would indicate that it does not in fact operate fully from USB power when charged.

Upon replugging USB power, the light starts flashing and current draw jumps to 0.5A when idle and ~0.6A when playing, so not that much fluctuation. Appears to be recharging the little bit of battery drained from the earlier test. If it was left turned on like this, I would imagine it would be constantly draining battery a little at the same time as charging, which would essentially prevent the charging circuit from turning off, and is something I have noticed before where the unit never stopped "charging" while turned on and got pretty warm.

EDIT2: Tried fully disconnecting the battery and plugging it into USB. 0.1A draw from USB, charging light flashing, blue light turns on, but no music plays, only some hiss. Indicating the unit definitely cannot operate fully from USB power. Power supply used for these tests was Anker wall charger 2.4A. From what I've found, I would not recommend using this as a desktop unit, because it will still use the battery while doing so. Somewhat disappointing, though not the end of the world.


----------



## WitzyZed

Degru said:


> Does keeping the amp plugged in and turned on affect the battery lifespan? I want to use it like I would a desktop unit, but I notice it getting pretty warm and am worried the battery could die like it does on Chord Mojo when used like that.
> 
> EDIT: Doing a test rn. Fully charged fiio a5 while turned off until light stops flashing. Turned on, without unplugging it. USB current draw did not budge from 0.01 even after playing music loudly through some lower impedance headphones. This would indicate that it does not in fact operate fully from USB power when charged.
> 
> Upon replugging USB power, the light starts flashing and current draw jumps to 0.5A when idle and ~0.6A when playing, so not that much fluctuation. Appears to be recharging the little bit of battery drained from the earlier test. If it was left turned on like this, I would imagine it would be constantly draining battery a little at the same time as charging, which would essentially prevent the charging circuit from turning off, and is something I have noticed before where the unit never stopped "charging" while turned on and got pretty warm.



http://www.fiio.net:8000/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=40319&extra=page=1

FiiO themselves said there would be no issue doing so with E12, I would presume the same is the case for A5.


----------



## Degru

WitzyZed said:


> http://www.fiio.net:8000/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=40319&extra=page=1
> 
> FiiO themselves said there would be no issue doing so with E12, I would presume the same is the case for A5.


Yeah I saw that. Not so sure myself tho. It's not like it would outright break, but utilizing the battery would definitely affect it long term.


----------



## a-LeXx

Spektykles said:


> You gave me an interesting idea so I just done it. Made a new battery pack for my "Super A5". Took 3 generic cell phone 3.7v 1880mah battery that fit the dimension of stock battery but thicker and stacked it together, stock 11.1v 880mah (3 cells 3.7v) -> modded 11.1v 5640mah (3 cells 1880mah 3.7v). Recycled the stock battery circuit and wires, also each battery cell have their own protection circuit too. Charging time also slower but Im using hi-power cell phone charger (5V 2.5A) so it should be fine. Now I can use it for days without charging



Nice mods. And I know your post is almost a year old  I just ran into it... However your math is awfully wrong  By stacking 3 batteries your are indeed getting 11.1V. But the current driving capacity remains the same - it‘s still the same 1880mah  To get 5640mah you‘d need to use 9 batteries, make stacks of 3 of them, and then connect the stacks in parallel...


----------



## riodgarp

are fiio A5 still has imbalance issue with low volume (due to analog potentiometer weakness) ? has somebody modifying it to more balance without using external attachment like impedance adaptor or something else ?


----------



## Slater

riodgarp said:


> are fiio A5 still has imbalance issue with low volume (due to analog potentiometer weakness) ? has somebody modifying it to more balance without using external attachment like impedance adaptor or something else ?



This is the 1st I’ve ever heard about this.

When you say “low volume”, exactly how low are you talking? Because I sometimes listen at pretty low volumes, and I’ve never heard any kind of imbalance.

If you’re talking so low it’s barely even perceivable, then I’m personally not too worried about it.

Just curious...


----------



## riodgarp

Slater said:


> This is the 1st I’ve ever heard about this.
> 
> When you say “low volume”, exactly how low are you talking? Because I sometimes listen at pretty low volumes, and I’ve never heard any kind of imbalance.
> 
> ...



my e12a usually feel unbalance for my sensitive iem for position below 9 o clock eventhough they said that amp dedicated for iem and low impedance cans


----------



## Slater

riodgarp said:


> my e12a usually feel unbalance for my sensitive iem for position below 9 o clock eventhough they said that amp dedicated for iem and low impedance cans



Interesting...I’ll check mine out later today and see if I can notice a difference. I own both the E12A and A5, so it will be interesting to see if one or the other or both have the balance issue you’re describing


----------



## tmb821

I’m curious. Currently I run a nx3s fed by a btr3, usually hooked to my k240s, sometimes my shp9500. Always use amazon music hd. I changed the opamp to a NE5532. I have no complaints with this setup, just wondering if the a5 would be any better? I think I may have getnewgearitsshinyitis!


----------



## cherryind

I have replaced Muses 02 with OPA2156, difference i've noticed is night and day! I'm using Shanling M2x (Tidal) -> E12a -> BQEYZ Spring 1. Anyone tried OPA2156? Its the most musical sound i've ever heard! Any suggestions for modding/adding caps?


----------



## Slater

cherryind said:


> I have replaced Muses 02 with OPA2156, difference i've noticed is night and day! I'm using Shanling M2x (Tidal) -> E12a -> BQEYZ Spring 1. Anyone tried OPA2156? Its the most musical sound i've ever heard! Any suggestions for modding/adding caps?



Where did you get the OPA2156? And did you install a socket, or just solder the chip in place? Thanks


----------



## cherryind

Slater said:


> Where did you get the OPA2156? And did you install a socket, or just solder the chip in place? Thanks


I bought it from mouser. Opamp is soldered on to an adapter and I soldered it directly.


----------



## Slater (Apr 5, 2020)

I was thinking about replacing my
opamp with either of these.



Does anyone have experience with either of these, or know anything about them? I’ve never really seen that type of opamp before.

The specs on the V6 look good. I’m not sure how they would compare to a more well known opamp (something from Ti) or if the above ones would even fit under the FiiO case.


----------



## Babu28 (May 5, 2020)

FiiO A5 upgraded!!! I change MUSES02 to OPA 2227P from BB. Now A5 sounded ammazing! OPA 2227P have on this circuit PCB better sound  than MUSES02. I tryed OPA 2228 P (BB) and it is great too, but not more musician than OPA 2227P. Now A5 have better soundstage (wider), and have more details, better treble, and has probably better S/N Ratio, and better THD+N, because OPA 2227P have nice parameters of thies two. I not understand why is MUSES02 so expensive, cost much more than better op. amps. I tried more oamps forexample LME49720, LM 4562, but this two are much fast for this circuit pcb, OPA 2132 P sound great, but not for me. OPA 2134 PA sound is wrong with this OA, OP 275 from TI sounded same as MUSES only treble tones have not some detail as MUSES02. Absolute winner is OPA 2227P from Burr-Brown (TI).


----------



## Hooga

Hello all

I just got an A5 brand new unit.
Came in with totally zero battery charge (turning the knob ON did not light the blue led).
Put it under charge, and after some time (1 hour or so) the red led starts flickering very quickly.

I RTFM for once, and followed what the instructions say:

A5 was never ON during the charge process
The situation repeats identically after disconnecting/reconnecting the (original Fiio, or any other) charger cable: the red light starts pulsing slowly and after 10 seconds or so it goes flickering quickly.
I swapped 6 different charge sources, with and without fast charging capacity, on, below and above 2.0V - always the same stuff
Any ideas, or I just return it ?

Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## Promenadeplatz

as it is an older item the battery probably was "deep-discharged" and it needs now several attempts to reload. If it finally reloads as new I would go with it. Otherwise send it back.


----------



## Hooga

Promenadeplatz said:


> as it is an older item the battery probably was "deep-discharged" and it needs now several attempts to reload. If it finally reloads as new I would go with it. Otherwise send it back.



Oh ok. Let me see if I got it right: I should charge it "as much as allowed" (until it flickers), then discharge it completely again, then recharge, so on so forth for a few times until the red light will "go solid" instead of flickering?

Thanks for your help !


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Hooga said:


> Oh ok. Let me see if I got it right: I should charge it "as much as allowed" (until it flickers), then discharge it completely again, then recharge, so on so forth for a few times until the red light will "go solid" instead of flickering?
> 
> Thanks for your help !


Exactly. And it may take longer than usual for the first cycles to full charge after a long period of deep discharge.


----------



## Hooga

Promenadeplatz said:


> Exactly. And it may take longer than usual for the first cycles to full charge after a long period of deep discharge.



OK, going for it. Thanks!


----------



## Hooga

6 cycles done (full discharge + recharge). Still flashing light at the end of the recharge.
Send back or insist ?


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Seems like something is wrong with this unit.


----------



## Hooga

Seems to me too


----------



## runssical (Dec 8, 2020)

Fiio has informed me that they have officially discontinued the A5 and have no plans to introduce a replacement. A Fiio customer service representative cited a lack of market demand for this type of product. 

Additionally, it appears that ibasso and Cayin have also discontinued their competing amp-only portable units. This leaves the market with very few options for portable amps. 

The market has now moved almost entirely to products that combine both D/A conversion and amplification. Unfortunately, these "portable DACs" as their often called have significantly weaker amplification output power than dedicated amps such as the A5.


----------



## Slater

runssical said:


> Fiio has informed me that they have officially discontinued the A5 and have no plans to introduce a replacement. A Fiio customer service representative cited a lack of market demand for this type of product.
> 
> Additionally, it appears that ibasso and Cayin have also discontinued their competing amp-only portable units. This leaves the market with very few options for portable amps.
> 
> The market has now moved almost entirely to products that combine both D/A conversion and amplification. Unfortunately, these "portable DACs" as their often called have significantly weaker amplification output power than dedicated amps such as the A5.



That’s sad news indeed


----------



## Luis Mad

Hi all,
here a new Fiio A5 owner. i bought myself a little Christmas present. A Fiio A5 portable headphone amp. It has excellent reviews but was recently discontinued. I saw some new ones being sold by a UK ebay seller and ordered it just before Brexit. At 125 euros it is a bargain in my opinion.
i must say that my favourite set up is still Sr25 line out to my old and reliable Denon PMA1500 stereo amp to my Denon Ah-d7200 Headphones.
Now the combination of the Sr25 line out and the Fiio A5 is a strong second position. The SR25 directly to the Denon Ah-D7200 sounds amazing. The Fiio A5 amp brings it a bit further. There is a clear improvement, specially separation between instruments and also the feel of sound power. All in all very happy with the purchase. No noise at all. What a pitty that it has been discontinue, I find it is an excellent product. 
I will probably continue listening to the SR25 directly most of the time either with the Denons or with my Etymotic ER4XR but the little amp gives me a bit more to continue digging the music and I will certainly use it specially for attentive listening. I include a pic.


----------



## runssical

Luis Mad said:


> Hi all,
> here a new Fiio A5 owner. i bought myself a little Christmas present. A Fiio A5 portable headphone amp. It has excellent reviews but was recently discontinued. I saw some new ones being sold by a UK ebay seller and ordered it just before Brexit. At 125 euros it is a bargain in my opinion.
> i must say that my favourite set up is still Sr25 line out to my old and reliable Denon PMA1500 stereo amp to my Denon Ah-d7200 Headphones.
> Now the combination of the Sr25 line out and the Fiio A5 is a strong second position. The SR25 directly to the Denon Ah-D7200 sounds amazing. The Fiio A5 amp brings it a bit further. There is a clear improvement, specially separation between instruments and also the feel of sound power. All in all very happy with the purchase. No noise at all. What a pitty that it has been discontinue, I find it is an excellent product.
> I will probably continue listening to the SR25 directly most of the time either with the Denons or with my Etymotic ER4XR but the little amp gives me a bit more to continue digging the music and I will certainly use it specially for attentive listening. I include a pic.



Nice setup. Hopefully the battery packs in our A5s last a good while.


----------



## jpierre

what do you think of the xduoo xd 05plus compared to the fiio?


----------



## runssical

jpierre said:


> what do you think of the xduoo xd 05plus compared to the fiio?



Never heard of it but the specs are impressive. More output power than the FiiO A5 with a better battery. Obviously, it has added DAC functionality. I'll definitely look into the device.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Horrible performance shown here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ts-of-xduoo-xd-05plus-portable-dac-amp.10515/


----------



## runssical

Promenadeplatz said:


> Horrible performance shown here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ts-of-xduoo-xd-05plus-portable-dac-amp.10515/



Well there you go. The measurements for the amp output are terrible! Scratching it off my list.


----------



## Vannak

Babu28 said:


> FiiO A5 upgraded!!! I change MUSES02 to OPA 2227P from BB. Now A5 sounded ammazing! OPA 2227P have on this circuit PCB better sound  than MUSES02. I tryed OPA 2228 P (BB) and it is great too, but not more musician than OPA 2227P. Now A5 have better soundstage (wider), and have more details, better treble, and has probably better S/N Ratio, and better THD+N, because OPA 2227P have nice parameters of thies two. I not understand why is MUSES02 so expensive, cost much more than better op. amps. I tried more oamps forexample LME49720, LM 4562, but this two are much fast for this circuit pcb, OPA 2132 P sound great, but not for me. OPA 2134 PA sound is wrong with this OA, OP 275 from TI sounded same as MUSES only treble tones have not some detail as MUSES02. Absolute winner is OPA 2227P from Burr-Brown (TI).


Where can I buy this op amp? 🙏


----------



## Vannak

Slater said:


> I was thinking about replacing my
> opamp with either of these.
> 
> 
> ...


And how is it going? 
Have you changed the op amp yet? 
I really want to know the soldering is it difficult 
200cc is good enough


----------



## Slater

Vannak said:


> And how is it going?
> Have you changed the op amp yet?
> I really want to know the soldering is it difficult
> 200cc is good enough



I never went through with it.


----------



## runssical

Does anyone know how to remove the A5 circuit board from the metal chassis? I can't figure out how to disassemble this darn thing. The bassboost switch on the side and the volume knob seem to be an impediment to sliding out the chassis. 

I need to find out of the battery can be replaced because it's wearing down.


----------



## Slater

runssical said:


> Does anyone know how to remove the A5 circuit board from the metal chassis? I can't figure out how to disassemble this darn thing. The bassboost switch on the side and the volume knob seem to be an impediment to sliding out the chassis.
> 
> I need to find out of the battery can be replaced because it's wearing down.



The volume knob pulls off of the potentiometer post. The bass boost switch pulls straight out with your fingernails.


----------



## runssical

Slater said:


> The volume knob pulls off of the potentiometer post. The bass boost switch pulls straight out with your fingernails.



Alright I'll give that a try.


----------



## runssical (Jan 26, 2021)

Slater said:


> The volume knob pulls off of the potentiometer post. The bass boost switch pulls straight out with your fingernails.



Okay, so I removed the two rear screws and the volume pot. I tried to pull the bass boost slider out with tweezers and that didn't work because there's no way to get a grip on the slider. Eventually I removed the tiny slider peg by prying at it's base with a mini flat head screw driver.

Unfortunately, I still can't get the mother board assembly to slide out of the metal chassis. Not sure if I'm doing this correctly but I pushed inward on the volume pot axle. I applied what I consider a lot of pressure but nothing budged. Am I missing something here? Maybe the battery pack expanded over time and reduced the clearance in the chassis?

*UPDATE*: Ended up accidentally disconnecting one of the four battery wires from the motherboard. It was impossible to get back into the stupid little connector. Then when I tried to remove the wire connector the remaining wires disconnected. So I was left with a completely disconnected battery and no way to reattach it. The parts are too small for human eyes to fiddle with. I would need a jewelers magnifier lamp and steady hands to work such a miracle. Ended smashing the piece of crap in frustration. Felt good. My advice is don't disassemble your FiiO devices if you have one.


----------



## Slater

runssical said:


> Okay, so I removed the two rear screws and the volume pot. I tried to pull the bass boost slider out with tweezers and that didn't work because there's no way to get a grip on the slider. Eventually I removed the tiny slider peg by prying at it's base with a mini flat head screw driver.
> 
> Unfortunately, I still can't get the mother board assembly to slide out of the metal chassis. Not sure if I'm doing this correctly but I pushed inward on the volume pot axle. I applied what I consider a lot of pressure but nothing budged. Am I missing something here? Maybe the battery pack expanded over time and reduced the clearance in the chassis?
> 
> *UPDATE*: Ended up accidentally disconnecting one of the four battery wires from the motherboard. It was impossible to get back into the stupid little connector. Then when I tried to remove the wire connector the remaining wires disconnected. So I was left with a completely disconnected battery and no way to reattach it. The parts are too small for human eyes to fiddle with. I would need a jewelers magnifier lamp and steady hands to work such a miracle. Ended smashing the piece of crap in frustration. Felt good. My advice is don't disassemble your FiiO devices if you have one.



Ummm, you didn't have to smash it. I could have easily fixed it, or even bought it off of you broken

In fact, I'd still be willing to buy the smashed one off of you for spare parts for mine. Shoot me a PM if interested.


----------



## runssical

Slater said:


> Ummm, you didn't have to smash it. I could have easily fixed it, or even bought it off of you broken
> 
> In fact, I'd still be willing to buy the smashed one off of you for spare parts for mine. Shoot me a PM if interested.



Well you shouldn't have told me how to take it apart. Look what happened! 

It's going to the landfill.


----------



## runssical

If anyone knows of portable amp equal or better than the A5 that doesn't cost $1,300 let me know?


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Teac P90 as an amp, way better, not that powerful.


----------



## runssical

Promenadeplatz said:


> Teac P90 as an amp, way better, not that powerful.



Teac is a garbage brand like Audio GD. Been proven across the major audio enthusiast forums and by Audio Precision measurements. 

For now I'm going to move back to a desktop setup for most of my serious music listening and stick with LG Quad Dac output and LDAC Bluetooth transmission for my portable needs. 

The audio industry has largely abandoned the midpriced portable DAC/AMP market. All we have to choose from is ChiFi bottom feeder garbage, stupid dongles, and then overpriced esoteric offerings from iFi and Woo Audio. Those overpriced products still miss the mark and fall short of what a $400 Schiit stack, to name one example, will get you in terms of sound quality and enjoyment. 

Up until a couple months ago I had an original Magni 3 that purchased back in 2017. It literally blew the FiiO A5 out of the water. And I even did a direct comparison, plugging my Musical Fidelity V-DAC into the FiiO A5 for an apples to apples comparison. The A5 sounded muffled and unresolving compared to the transparency and energy of the Magni. It was amazing. However I decided to sell the Magni because it was a little too bright sounding for my taste. I'll probably grab an Asgard 3 and go from there.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Any one know where to get a replacement battery?


----------



## Slater

Themilkman46290 said:


> Any one know where to get a replacement battery?



Maybe the guy a few posts up that smashed his can give you the battery


----------



## Themilkman46290

It maybe harder to ship, I was hoping for brand new (un-smashed) 

Before I attempt to open this thing up, have any tips (accept for smashing it up) 

It's a pretty good Lil amp, was thinking about changing out the muses for something a bit less warm was looking through the thread, I think I have a 49720 and a few AD oamps, might try the socket, any other recommendations? was wondering how

 the 3 stacked battery would work if all else fails, noticed somebody had done that, wonder how that worked out


----------



## Slater

Themilkman46290 said:


> It maybe harder to ship, I was hoping for brand new (un-smashed)
> 
> Before I attempt to open this thing up, have any tips (accept for smashing it up)
> 
> ...



When you open it up, the battery should say somewhere on it some numbers. These numbers translate to the mm dimensions.

For example, if it says 3.7v 703030, that is a 3.7v battery that is 70mm x 30mm x 30mm. It may not say on the top, it may say under the double sided tape where they stock it down. But it should say somewhere.

If it doesn't say for some reason, just use some calipers and take your own measurements.

Once you have the dimensions, it's just a matter of searching on Aliexpress or eBay for the same battery (voltage a dimensions).

I've replaced many batteries this way, and all have worked out fine.

As far as tips, smashing is totally unnecessary. You simply pull the volume knob straight off, and then pull the bass switch straight off as well. Then it's a matter of removing the screws and sliding the whole thing apart.

Soldering skills and the appropriate tools to open the case are obviously necessary.

Easy as pie. But if it's way over your head, a local cell phone electronics repair shop should be able to do it, or even another experienced HeadFier.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!


----------



## runssical

Slater said:


> Maybe the guy a few posts up that smashed his can give you the battery



Unfortunately, my battery exploded after I took a ball ping hammer to it.


----------



## runssical

Themilkman46290 said:


> Any one know where to get a replacement battery?



You can send your A5 to me. I can disconnect the battery for you.


----------



## Themilkman46290

runssical said:


> You can send your A5 to me. I can disconnect the battery for you.


Unfortunately I don't live such privileged life, I  work very hard for the toys I buy, even if I didn't like it, smashing it is not an option, I paid around 100 bucks used, so unless you feel like throwing more of your money away simply because of some weird ego thing. 
send me 100 plus shipping and its yours..


----------



## Themilkman46290

Slater said:


> When you open it up, the battery should say somewhere on it some numbers. These numbers translate to the mm dimensions.
> 
> For example, if it says 3.7v 703030, that is a 3.7v battery that is 70mm x 30mm x 30mm. It may not say on the top, it may say under the double sided tape where they stock it down. But it should say somewhere.
> 
> ...


Have you tried removing the bass switch? 
I have strong grip, but that's just not possible, I even tried some needle nose, still doesn't come out, the pot knob also seems glued.


----------



## runssical (Feb 4, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Unfortunately I don't live such privileged life, I  work very hard for the toys I buy, even if I didn't like it, smashing it is not an option, I paid around 100 bucks used, so unless you feel like throwing more of your money away simply because of some weird ego thing.
> send me 100 plus shipping and its yours..



Yes, in hindsight I shouldn't have smashed my A5. But the mistake was taking it apart to begin with.

The battery life on the device has never lived up to the stated 13hr figure FiiO claims. Presumably that duration figure was a maximum and dependent on a sensitive low impedance IEM being used. Over time, battery life diminished. Just before my A5 was sent to the guillotine I was only getting 2-3hrs per charge and had to charge it every day instead, up from twice a week several a several months ago. The battery would crap out in the middle of an album. Frustrating to say the least. 

Good luck finding a replacement battery. The size and dimensions of the battery are uncommon making your hunt even more difficult. Even if a cell is found on a backwater website such as Aliexpress chances are high that you'll be getting a crappy low quality cells. Like buying one of those big plastice flashlights with the cheap 6V battery inside that dies after 2 hrs.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Well, after a bit of trying, I have realized that the bass switch is glued, used a small electronics repair flat head, after a few trys it popped out, the knob, was a bit harder, it was also glued, I used my heat gun (removed the o-ring first) 

Not at all difficult to disassembe, but the bass switch is much easier if you use a very small flat head, using th case for leverage and pop it out, it's impossible to do with fingers unless glue is not holding, and it doesn't smm like removing the pot know really helps 
Thanks Slater, as always, you are pretty damned knowledgeable.


----------



## runssical (Feb 4, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Have you tried removing the bass switch?
> I have strong grip, but that's just not possible, I even tried some needle nose, still doesn't come out, the pot knob also seems glued.



Slater gives bad advice. I listened to him and look how my A5 turned out. Slater has blood on his hands. Don't trust that dude. I think he works for iBasso and he's trying to sabotage FiiO gear


----------



## Themilkman46290

runssical said:


> Yes, in hindsight I shouldn't have smashed my A5. But the mistake was taking it apart to begin with.
> 
> The battery life on the device has never lived up to the stated 13hr figure FiiO claims. Presumably that duration figure was a maximum and dependent on a sensitive low impedance IEM being used. Over time, battery life diminished. Just before my A5 was sent to the guillotine I was only getting 2-3hrs per charge and had to charge it every day instead, up from twice a week several a several months ago. The battery would crap out in the middle of an album. Frustrating to say the least.
> 
> Good luck finding a replacement battery. The size and dimensions of the battery are uncommon making your hunt even more difficult. Even if a cell is found on a backwater website such as Aliexpress chances are high that you'll be getting a crappy low quality cells. Like buying one of those big plastice flashlights with the cheap 6V battery inside that dies after 2 hrs.


I have bought a few batteries on Alliexpress, no problems so far
Looking at the battery tells me I could use 3 small 3.7V batteries to create 11.1 volt, if I can't find one, then I can easily have it made, but if I could find it made, that would be awesome. 
I been reading up on electrical engineering, and even though I am far from a pro, making batteries is one of the first things I have learned, has helped me save a lot of my money, specially because today's products have been very much influenced by western companies like apple, who has led the market in revenues by doubling down on planned obsolescence, it really sucks, phones used to be expected to last atleast 5 years but since the iPhone you will be lucky to get 2 years, and if you happen to own a new iPhone, well, you will be lucky to get 1.5 years, and it wouldn't bother me if these disposable products had disposable prices, but they don't, you could buy a used car for that price, hell I could even invest in a small business in my country for the price of new iphone. And I read that there will not be any strong portable amps under 1000 dollars in the next couple years, other then the xd-05 but according to the measurements, it's not such a great amp/dac


----------



## Themilkman46290

runssical said:


> Slater gives bad advice. I listened to him and look how my A5 turned out. Slater has blood on his hands. Don't trust that dude. I think he works for iBasso and he's trying to sabotage FiiO gear


Ibasso is hands down better gear, fiios players are complete turds...... 
I was stupid enough to buy the x1 and thought they would fix the bugs..... 
Sold it when I realised there wouldn't be any support, it seems fiio doesn't support there products, and have a very high upgrade cycle
Ibasso seems to support even there older daps, still can't beleive the dx50 only lost support a couple years ago, it's a 10 year old DAP..


----------



## runssical

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well, after a bit of trying, I have realized that the bass switch is glued, used a small electronics repair flat head, after a few trys it popped out, the knob, was a bit harder, it was also glued, I used my heat gun (removed the o-ring first)
> 
> Not at all difficult to disassembe, but the bass switch is much easier if you use a very small flat head, using th case for leverage and pop it out, it's impossible to do with fingers unless glue is not holding, and it doesn't smm like removing the pot know really helps
> Thanks Slater, as always, you are pretty damned knowledgeable.





Themilkman46290 said:


> I have bought a few batteries on Alliexpress, no problems so far
> Looking at the battery tells me I could use 3 small 3.7V batteries to create 11.1 volt, if I can't find one, then I can easily have it made, but if I could find it made, that would be awesome.
> I been reading up on electrical engineering, and even though I am far from a pro, making batteries is one of the first things I have learned, has helped me save a lot of my money, specially because today's products have been very much influenced by western companies like apple, who has led the market in revenues by doubling down on planned obsolescence, it really sucks, phones used to be expected to last atleast 5 years but since the iPhone you will be lucky to get 2 years, and if you happen to own a new iPhone, well, you will be lucky to get 1.5 years, and it wouldn't bother me if these disposable products had disposable prices, but they don't, you could buy a used car for that price, hell I could even invest in a small business in my country for the price of new iphone. And I read that there will not be any strong portable amps under 1000 dollars in the next couple years, other then the xd-05 but according to the measurements, it's not such a great amp/dac



If I understand correctly you're going to buy 3 battery packs and then wrap them together in series to make a bigger battery? That's going to fit in the case? 

Yeah I hear you on the sealed battery bs. The reason I'm still using an LG V20 as my phone is because it has a removable battery. New batteries are easy and affordable to obtain.

It's odd that your bass boost switch and pot knob were glued on. That wasn't the case with my A5 or Slater's. 

Before I decided to throw the towel in on portable amps I googled for photos of the internal board layouts to see how  each product had their battery pack wired to the board. Some products such as xDuoo's XD05 use molex style pin connectors and what looks like a smartphone form factor LiPo packs. That's the ideal setup imo. 

I have high resolution images of iFi's portable xCan amp and can't find where the battery connects on the board. I'll post the photos. If you see where the battery connects let me know.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Feb 4, 2021)

So, the battery is 47x54x10
And looking at the side of it
We can se it is indeed 3 cells put together
Here we can see the glue used on the knob


----------



## Themilkman46290

runssical said:


> If I understand correctly you're going to buy 3 battery packs and then wrap them together in series to make a bigger battery? That's going to fit in the case?
> 
> Yeah I hear you on the sealed battery bs. The reason I'm still using an LG V20 as my phone is because it has a removable battery. New batteries are easy and affordable to obtain.
> 
> ...


Well the pics you have sent make it difficult, so I found a few more
This is another view, you can see an empty socket on the right under the second pcb
So I would think it goes there
Her is another picture, the main board has 2 sockets, one with several contacts, the other has 2
I highlighted for you


----------



## F700

I have a FiiO A5, mint condition and unused, which is gathering dust in his package. Is someone interested in buying it at a very good price? Don't hesitate to throw me a pm before I put it up for sale in the dedicated forum.


----------



## runssical

Themilkman46290 said:


> So, the battery is 47x54x10
> And looking at the side of it
> We can se it is indeed 3 cells put together
> Here we can see the glue used on the knob



Well keep us updated if you go through with the diy battery replacement.


----------



## Themilkman46290

F700 said:


> I have a FiiO A5, mint condition and unused, which is gathering dust in his package. Is someone interested in buying it at a very good price? Don't hesitate to throw me a pm before I put it up for sale in the dedicated forum.


What country are you in?


----------



## Themilkman46290

runssical said:


> Well keep us updated if you go through with the diy battery replacement.


I will keep searching for oem, if not, I will definitely upload the results, but it won't be too soon, specially if I order it


----------



## runssical

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well the pics you have sent make it difficult, so I found a few more
> This is another view, you can see an empty socket on the right under the second pcb
> So I would think it goes there
> Her is another picture, the main board has 2 sockets, one with several contacts, the other has 2
> I highlighted for you



Thanks for the detective work. I had the angled pic you posted but not the 2nd pic with the Bluetooth daughter board removed. I was eyeballing that white connector and wondering if it was for the BT daughter board or the battery. It does have a label near it that starts with the letter "P" so that bolsters the assumption that it's for a battery wire connector. 

Did the website where you found that last photo happen to have a pic of the actual battery pack? So far I haven't been able to find what LiPo pack iFi is using in the xCan.


----------



## Themilkman46290

runssical said:


> Thanks for the detective work. I had the angled pic you posted but not the 2nd pic with the Bluetooth daughter board removed. I was eyeballing that white connector and wondering if it was for the BT daughter board or the battery. It does have a label near it that starts with the letter "P" so that bolsters the assumption that it's for a battery wire connector.
> 
> Did the website where you found that last photo happen to have a pic of the actual battery pack? So far I haven't been able to find what LiPo pack iFi is using in the xCan.


Nope, sadly couldn't find a pic of the battery


----------



## runssical (Feb 4, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I will keep searching for oem, if not, I will definitely upload the results, but it won't be too soon, specially if I order it



Let me know what you turn up. I might buy one of these old A5s if they turn up on the used market for an inexpensive price and then refresh it with a new battery.

I find it odd that the A5 is rarity on the used market. It was a mass produced item sold worldwide. Could be the case that most people just chuck it when the battery dies assuming it's broken. Either that or they just get tossed in a drawer and forgotten about.


----------



## F700

Themilkman46290 said:


> What country are you in?


Switzerland


----------



## Themilkman46290

runssical said:


> Let me know what you turn up. I might buy one of these old A5s if they turn up on the used market for an inexpensive price and then refresh it with a new battery.
> 
> I find it odd that the A5 is rarity on the used market. It was a mass produced item sold worldwide. Could be the case that most people just chuck it when the battery dies assuming it's broken. Either that or they just get tossed in a drawer and forgotten about.


Or like many other decent products of yesterday, they may have been bought up by people like me in developing countries...... We do have crap tons of engineers, specialist, architects, scientists 
But atleast here in eastern Europe, we have tons of trained professionals that unfortunately don't have much work, and can't move up in life, it's kind of like being black, from a ghetto in America after reaganomics (I was raised in the ghettos of D.C.) 
if you use translate, look up the Russian audiophile sights, be amazed what these guys do with old gear, old I river daps still sell gold (very popular modding platform, more then a few years old)


----------



## runssical (Feb 4, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Or like many other decent products of yesterday, they may have been bought up by people like me in developing countries...... We do have crap tons of engineers, specialist, architects, scientists
> But atleast here in eastern Europe, we have tons of trained professionals that unfortunately don't have much work, and can't move up in life, it's kind of like being black, from a ghetto in America after reaganomics (I was raised in the ghettos of D.C.)
> if you use translate, look up the Russian audiophile sights, be amazed what these guys do with old gear, old I river daps still sell gold (very popular modding platform, more then a few years old)



That's a fair point. Although Americans tend to treat most products as disposable.

I was meandering through Head-fi boards this morning and one comment took me to the website of an obscure German manufacturer of portable amplifiers, Vorzuge. I scrolled through the manual for one of their amps and found the following paragraph warning and advising users to replace the internal rechargeable Li Ion batteries every 5-6 months. Vorzuge stats that the batteries will age and diminish audio performance and even risk damaging the amp.

https://vorzuge.com/product/vorzampduo/






I can't speak to the validity of these statements. Perhaps they sell replacement batteries to their amp customers and this is profit motivated fear mongering, eh?

But I do wonder how an aging battery affects an amp once it's a year or 2 old. When my LG V20 phone LiPo battery packs get old the phone's stability and performance is compromised. When one of my battery packs is nearing EoL I start to notice the phone behaving erratically when the battery level drops below 30%. Newer packs perform evenly all the way to 5%. 

So I do think there's a possibility that the same phenomenon could affect portable amps. Voltage or current flow could waiver or fluctuate. Perhaps the capacitors help mask this or perhaps not. All the more reason to seek out replacement cells for the A5 or any other portable.


----------



## Slater

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well, after a bit of trying, I have realized that the bass switch is glued, used a small electronics repair flat head, after a few trys it popped out, the knob, was a bit harder, it was also glued, I used my heat gun (removed the o-ring first)
> 
> Not at all difficult to disassembe, but the bass switch is much easier if you use a very small flat head, using th case for leverage and pop it out, it's impossible to do with fingers unless glue is not holding, and it doesn't smm like removing the pot know really helps
> Thanks Slater, as always, you are pretty damned knowledgeable.



Glad you got it off. The glue must be stronger or weaker on some vs others. Mine came off without the need for heating. The volume knob was a fairly tight friction fit, but it did come off after working it off a little at a time.


----------



## Themilkman46290

runssical said:


> That's a fair point. Although Americans tend to treat most products as disposable.
> 
> I was meandering through Head-fi boards this morning and one comment took me to the website of an obscure German manufacturer of portable amplifiers, Vorzuge. I scrolled through the manual for one of their amps and found the following paragraph warning and advising users to replace the internal rechargeable Li Ion batteries every 5-6 months. Vorzuge stats that the batteries will age and diminish audio performance and even risk damaging the amp.
> 
> ...


Yep, your right in your thinking, after 6 months of use, batteries do not give the same power, they can drop a bit this can effect the whole circuit, I have read it could even cause shorts, issues in some relays, lost of errors

This is why I hope to change it in the next month or 2, I hope to have this little amp for a while, even though it is fairly dark and not as open sounding as my dx120, it does push something extra out of me hifiman and e-mu purple hearts


----------



## Vannak

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yep, your right in your thinking, after 6 months of use, batteries do not give the same power, they can drop a bit this can effect the whole circuit, I have read it could even cause shorts, issues in some relays, lost of errors
> 
> This is why I hope to change it in the next month or 2, I hope to have this little amp for a while, even though it is fairly dark and not as open sounding as my dx120, it does push something extra out of me hifiman and e-mu purple hearts


About the fiio A5 battery 
Have you guys tried buying directly from fiio?


----------



## Themilkman46290

Vannak said:


> About the fiio A5 battery
> Have you guys tried buying directly from fiio?


I haven't tried yet, but after all the crap I had with fiio over the x1, I don't think I will bother, honestly I felt there customer care sucked, it took them 3 months to get back to me, and instead of any actual support, they just told me that support may come in the future, then a month later the x1 was discontinued, not one update, I got angry and decided to not bother with fiio, I would rather not buy anything of them new, I will try to find a way around, and if I do come up with a diy solution, I will share it on here, atleast that way they lose a little money over poor support and greedy business tactics. 
I won't buy anything fiio new
I did buy an ibasso dx120 last week, I decided to get it new, with warranty, seeing as how even though I bought a second hand dx50 (after selling the x1) and to my surprise, even though it's very old DAP, they still supported it, I talk to an ibasso rep and he was quick to respond. 
So fiio barely supports there devices for longer then a few months. 
Ibasso supports devices even a few years after the are introduced.
Fiio took 3 months to respond with a lie. 
Ibasso responded in less then a half hour. 

So I don't mind a used fiio amp, but I don't want to send fiio a single dollar more..... 
"Once bitten, twice shy" 
It's a real pity I couldn't get a ibasso pb2


----------



## runssical (Feb 4, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yep, your right in your thinking, after 6 months of use, batteries do not give the same power, they can drop a bit this can effect the whole circuit, I have read it could even cause shorts, issues in some relays, lost of errors
> 
> This is why I hope to change it in the next month or 2, I hope to have this little amp for a while, even though it is fairly dark and not as open sounding as my dx120, it does push something extra out of me hifiman and e-mu purple hearts



Ah, reading that makes me reminiscence. I really enjoyed using that little bugger with my Z7. I just shakemyhead that FiiO discontinued this product. When I purchased mine two years ago for a mere $70 little did I know that it was the end of an era. Unbeknownst to me at the time FiiO had decided to ax it. No announcement. Retailers just dropped the price from $130 to $70. During my pre-purchase research I learned that the A5 was actually the third product in a venerated series that began with the E12. I took it for granted that a replacement would always be available when mine crapped out. Three generations and loads of positive feedback and reviews and they decide to memory hole the series 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Feb 4, 2021)

runssical said:


> Ah, reading that makes me reminiscence. I really enjoyed using that little bugger with my Z7. I just shakemyhead that FiiO discontinued this product. When I purchased mine two years ago for a mere $70 little did I know that it was the end of an era. Unbeknownst to me at the time FiiO had decided to ax it. No announcement. Retailers just dropped the price from $130 to $70. During my pre-purchase research I learned that the A5 was actually the third product in a venerated series that began with the E12. I took it for granted that a replacement would always be available when mine crapped out. Three generations and loads of positive feedback and reviews and they decide to memory hole the series 🤷‍♂️


Well I am sure they will bring  back different powerful portable amp, different name, probably a bit stronger, but for no less then 600 bucks.
Seems all companies are axing there good crap, simply to come back with something similar but 3 times the price
Cayin had the c5, it was very strong, it was a few hundred bucks, it's been killed a little while back, now they are bringing the c9, for like 5 or 10 thousand dollars.....
All companies doing the same, apple has revolutionized our industry once again....
But sheeple will buy there crap faithfully, without questioning
Actually started a while back when Iriver decided to change its name and up the prices by more then triple
And it worked, I have met a few people that beleive nothing can beat an astel&kernn, but anyone who has tried ibasso or cayin higher end knows its just marketing
I was actually asked to leave a local audio store because I tested astell against ibasso and cayin, but didn't buy anything except for a 2.5mmbalanced plug
The dude turned red in the face
He thought he was about to earn a rent payment. 
What can I say, the store charges 250 for a pair of m50x, almost 300 for Beyer dt770 pro and 200 for mdr7506

I know most audiophile are audio fools but the prices they have are nuts.


----------



## runssical

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well I am sure they will bring  back different powerful portable amp, different name, probably a bit stronger, but for no less then 600 bucks.
> Seems all companies are axing there good crap, simply to come back with something similar but 3 times the price
> Cayin had the c5, it was very strong, it was a few hundred bucks, it's been killed a little while back, now they are bringing the c9, for like 5 or 10 thousand dollars.....
> All companies doing the same, apple has revolutionized our industry once again....
> ...




I doubt we'll see a new amp-only portable from FiiO. I reached out to the company a couple months ago and the representative explained to me that they don't see a market for portable amps anymore. I don't think we can lay all the blame on these companies. The major smartphone manufacturers like Apple and Samsung are killing off the headphone/aux jacks on their phones. They're in affect setting the tone downstream for these audio companies and the focus has shifted to AIO products that can recieve a digital signal over USB. Bluetooth headphones have also improved in the past 4-5 years which undoubtedly puts a dent in sales demand for mobile separates. 

I would grab myself an iFi xCan if it weren't for it's fragile 2.5mm jack. Looks like a significant step up from the A5.


----------



## Themilkman46290

runssical said:


> I doubt we'll see a new amp-only portable from FiiO. I reached out to the company a couple months ago and the representative explained to me that they don't see a market for portable amps anymore. I don't think we can lay all the blame on these companies. The major smartphone manufacturers like Apple and Samsung are killing off the headphone/aux jacks on their phones. They're in affect setting the tone downstream for these audio companies and the focus has shifted to AIO products that can recieve a digital signal over USB. Bluetooth headphones have also improved in the past 4-5 years which undoubtedly puts a dent in sales demand for mobile separates.
> 
> I would grab myself an iFi xCan if it weren't for it's fragile 2.5mm jack. Looks like a significant step up from the A5.


Yeah, you are right, but I can't say I completely agree, seems the majority want Bluetooth (doesn't really make sense, it's still not at all on the same level) WiFi, android, playstore......... 
Honestly, I don't get it, like let's pay 300-700 dollar player, with a dac chip capable of native dsd Decoding, but then we put android that will reduce sound quality, stream through tidal, then listen to it on Bluetooth........... 

But I guess if your listening to horribly mastered noise that was compressed into MP3 files before being released (death grips) or music with no dynamic range (pretty much everything made after the 90's) then it doesn't matter
And once again, the apple crowd has spoke, bunch of sheeple, everytime those asses at apple figure out how to screw you over, all there overly narcissistic fans race to buy it, causing the industry to shift into a crappy direction. 

So they make a phone without removable battery, then kill the headphone jack, the battery in there devices tend to be smaller then most, so you will need to charge atleast everyday, if you listen to music, you will need to charge twice a day, most iPhone lovers keep a power bank........ 

So one of my apple loving friends tells me I should get rid of all the wired headphones because its very inconvenient, he carries his airpods, a power bank, USB cable and phone, I charges it constantly. 

I carry a pair of wired earbuds and my ibasso, and a phone... 
My phones battery last all day, and so does my player, and I don't have a power bank.. 
Not to mention that battery only has 500 cycles so if you charge twice a day x 365 days = dying battery 
So now iPhone sheeple need a new $1.500  phone every year because apples marketing is geared towards people who mainly either have an inferiority complex (constant need to show they have nice things, wanting to be part of a group of "elites" , judging people based on material things) or they are teenage girls (according to statistics, around 70% of there customer base) 

It wouldn't be that bad, but I was recently banned from this no bull budget audiophile group because it seems apples pr & marketing had paid for some promotion, so when they were pushing apples new headphones saying that these headphones are true audiophile quality, and that these headphones had closed the gap between wired and Bluetooth, I called bull, they tried to argue, I stated that 700 dollar disposable apple headphones made by beats are not budget headphones nor are they audiophile and I was banned, with there last comment being that these are budget because the headphones are the best Bluetooth headphones ever made....... 

So I realised soon there won't be good wired gear, or strong amps, so I decided to by an old a5, fix it up, drop a new battery in it and change out the muses for something more transparent


----------



## runssical

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well I am sure they will bring  back different powerful portable amp, different name, probably a bit stronger, but for no less then 600 bucks.
> Seems all companies are axing there good crap, simply to come back with something similar but 3 times the price
> Cayin had the c5, it was very strong, it was a few hundred bucks, it's been killed a little while back, now they are bringing the c9, for like 5 or 10 thousand dollars.....
> All companies doing the same, apple has revolutionized our industry once again....
> ...



Never been an audio store. Thanks for the amusing story.


----------



## runssical

@Themilkman46290 
I think I found the battery:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PL514746P-...-/363217403200?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

I misplaced my A5 battery. You'll have to check yours to confirm it matches the specs and dimensions.


----------



## Themilkman46290

runssical said:


> @Themilkman46290
> I think I found the battery:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PL514746P-...-/363217403200?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
> ...


Similar size but it's the wrong voltage, if it was 3.5mm thick it would be slim enough to stack 3 and get 11.1v .
I am pretty sure it will need to be made, not a big deal, but we will have to find where to get batteries custom made.
I remember some sellers on AE that will do custom betteries, but will have to figure out which one sells the best quality goods.

I know that I could get it locally but it will be the same quality and 3 times the price


----------



## runssical

Themilkman46290 said:


> Similar size but it's the wrong voltage, if it was 3.5mm thick it would be slim enough to stack 3 and get 11.1v .
> I am pretty sure it will need to be made, not a big deal, but we will have to find where to get batteries custom made.
> I remember some sellers on AE that will do custom betteries, but will have to figure out which one sells the best quality goods.
> 
> I know that I could get it locally but it will be the same quality and 3 times the price



The AE merchants are 50Shades of shady if you ask me. Get a replacement stateside if you can. 

Yesterday I was investigating whether it was possible to get a Cayin C5 on the used market along with a replacement battery. Things were looking up initially. But the used battery sellers looked sketch. You can't rule out the possibility that you're getting a 'recycled' battery where the seller or whoever just rips the wrap on the cell off and puts a new wrap on.


----------



## Themilkman46290

runssical said:


> The AE merchants are 50Shades of shady if you ask me. Get a replacement stateside if you can.
> 
> Yesterday I was investigating whether it was possible to get a Cayin C5 on the used market along with a replacement battery. Things were looking up initially. But the used battery sellers looked sketch. You can't rule out the possibility that you're getting a 'recycled' battery where the seller or whoever just rips the wrap on the cell off and puts a new wrap on.


I can't really agree with you, have bought many batteries. when I lived in the "states" the only thing I noticed is there are no replacement parts, Americans rarely repair or recycle anything, it's a throw away culture. 
I did like how cheap electronics where there, but now it's not the same, this was changed many years ago. best electronics go to EU because according to EU laws, certain things must last a certain amount of time, and many countries respect the owners right to repair. 
But these companies simply pay the American government to lift those laws, so cell phones sent to American market are supposed to last a year, according to warranty. But in the EU many countries demand that cellphones last no less then 2 years (this is why apple had to give battery replacements) 
So when I purchase electronics I avoid inferior American Market devices, stick with EU stuff. 
Same with batteries, rather get some good polish batteries, but I will try the AE batteries because I can ask a seller to give me a couple of batteries for a reasonable price, but locally will be the same with the prices raised, or better EU but at 2 or 3 times the price

I used to get electronics from the states about 10 years ago, but about 5 years back I got a few things (computer, cellphone, camera) realized the cellphone didn't have a world antenna (although it was sold as having all antennas includeding int) the computer had issues so I took it to repair and was told that a few parts seemed like they are made using lower density plastic, and some connectors used are not gold plated as they should've been. 
So I researched and found out that wall art had lobbied many years ago, for the right to lie and act like there products are the same as any store, even though there electronics are made in different factories, so when you by a Sony TV at Wallmart, your getting a second quality TV that looks and feels like the one you get from a Sony outlet, but its not, of course, every other retailer followed and now a lot of American products are not nearly as good as they were, so I wouldn't be surprised if the batteries sold there are lower quality chines anyway. Even the U. S. Military orders IC chips for missiles, jets, bombers and other advanced systems from alibaba 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/352255/
There is an example of what I mean, I understand Americans have been attacking AE a lot, mainly because American tech firms are very angry at the chinese for making copies, but in the end, it's bad for the consumers, for example, Knowles drivers are OK,but like most capitalist, they underplayed and overworked there engineers, so there best guy left, started his own driver company, they were so much better that companies started using them, and if you get on the diy iem thread, you will realize they were a lot better, but Knowles owned the patent on the whole system. So instead of making a better product, they simply had the competition outed, so now we can't source those magnificent drivers and have to resort to drivers who are inferior and cost 3 times more

So these days a try to avoid anything American, because after understanding American businesses and how they became the leaders (heavy use of planned obsolescence, lobbying against consumers, selling mid tier devices as luxury disposable items, reducing the amount spent on R&D and increasing the amount spent on marketing)  
But I digress, truth is, if I don't find one in the next month or so, I can order a custom one from Alliexpress or have one made locally. 
But the idea to buy a battery in a country who has very little rights for the consumer and paying extra for the shipping isn't an option for me


----------



## runssical

Themilkman46290 said:


> I can't really agree with you, have bought many batteries. when I lived in the "states" the only thing I noticed is there are no replacement parts, Americans rarely repair or recycle anything, it's a throw away culture.
> I did like how cheap electronics where there, but now it's not the same, this was changed many years ago. best electronics go to EU because according to EU laws, certain things must last a certain amount of time, and many countries respect the owners right to repair.
> But these companies simply pay the American government to lift those laws, so cell phones sent to American market are supposed to last a year, according to warranty. But in the EU many countries demand that cellphones last no less then 2 years (this is why apple had to give battery replacements)
> So when I purchase electronics I avoid inferior American Market devices, stick with EU stuff.
> ...



I forgot that you're in Europe. My bad.

One thing I'm doing now that I never did before is researching any portable amp or dac to filter for only those that either use JST connections for the battery or 18650 cells. That rules out any products from FiiO.

To see the extent FiiO is going to in order to make battery swaps difficult you should watch their official tear down video for the Q3 THX amp:



>




Not only did they solder the wires to the circuit board (burried under a soldered on daughter board) but they also soldered down the entire battery. I kid you not 😅


----------



## Julius Decimus

runssical said:


> Yesterday I was investigating whether it was possible to get a Cayin C5...


JDS Labs C5 is great amplifier as well (from these older times). Have a replaceble battery, power is decent. 



runssical said:


> Not only did they solder the wires to the circuit board (burried under a soldered on daughter board) but they also soldered down the entire battery.


Not good.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Feb 10, 2021)

runssical said:


> I forgot that you're in Europe. My bad.
> 
> One thing I'm doing now that I never did before is researching any portable amp or dac to filter for only those that either use JST connections for the battery or 18650 cells. That rules out any products from FiiO.
> 
> ...


Exactly what I am talking about, it's terrible, but fiio is paying a ton In marketing, and worst thing is its paying off, I stopped looking at there stuff after my ordeal with the x1ii. So I been searching for there old stuff, anything that can be repaired.
What can I say, it sucks.
It really sucks, specially since this disposable crap they make is not so cheap, I wouldn't mind a disposable player at around 50 bucks for 6 months. But I expect a year for every hundred I spend...


----------



## MotherGooz

Bought a Fiio A5 on the used market for 40 euro's. Was a bit of a gamble but it looks like new, sounds awesome, and battery life so far is great. Very happy to have the A5 again in my collection, especially now its not produced anymore  (always regret i sold mine some time ago)


----------



## runssical

MotherGooz said:


> Bought a Fiio A5 on the used market for 40 euro's. Was a bit of a gamble but it looks like new, sounds awesome, and battery life so far is great. Very happy to have the A5 again in my collection, especially now its not produced anymore  (always regret i sold mine some time ago)


I'd bite at that price too.


----------



## runssical

Would the FiiO A3 provide _audio quality_ on par with the A5? The reduced output power is not a concern. Just need to confirm that it's designed and built well. The A5 used fairly good parts. Not sure about the A3. Haven't seen a photo of it's internal board. Any opinions on the A3 would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Themilkman46290

runssical said:


> Would the FiiO A3 provide _audio quality_ on par with the A5? The reduced output power is not a concern. Just need to confirm that it's designed and built well. The A5 used fairly good parts. Not sure about the A3. Haven't seen a photo of it's internal board. Any opinions on the A3 would be greatly appreciated.the a3 is a great amp, I would say it's on par, I just sold mine yesterday, but the bass boost wasn't very good, I found it better on the a5 (don't use it much anyway) I felt the a3 was even a wee bit cleaner sounding (but I wanted more power)


----------



## runssical

Hey, I'll take that as an endorsement


----------



## Julius Decimus (Mar 7, 2021)

runssical said:


> Hey, I'll take that as an endorsement


There is video on youtube with A3 teardown. I guess you could take a look what the internals look like.

Never had one and can't say what the sound is like, though was thinking the video might be helpful to you (to see the build and what it is).

Seems to be good video:


----------



## runssical

Julius Decimus said:


> There is video on youtube with A3 teardown. I guess you could take a look what the internals look like.
> 
> Never had one and can't say what the sound is like, though was thinking the video might be helpful to you (to see the build and what it is).
> 
> Seems to be good video:




Thanks! Great video. The A3 looks very well designed. Pretty neat.


----------



## homesickmadmax

I bought a FIIO A5 to pair with my HD 6XX a couple of months ago and now I just bought a Sony NW-A55 which is supposedly underpowered. Hope my A5 will do its magic!


----------



## Julius Decimus

homesickmadmax said:


> I bought a FIIO A5 to pair with my HD 6XX a couple of months ago and now I just bought a Sony NW-A55 which is supposedly underpowered. Hope my A5 will do its magic!


No worries.

If the Sony does not have 'line out mode' or dedicated output for this, my advice is to not go above 70-80% volume on the Sony to avoid distortion in the sound. Other than that all will be fine.


----------



## homesickmadmax

Julius Decimus said:


> No worries.
> 
> If the Sony does not have 'line out mode' or dedicated output for this, my advice is to not go above 70-80% volume on the Sony to avoid distortion in the sound. Other than that all will be fine.


Good advice, thank you!


----------



## Luis Mad

homesickmadmax said:


> I bought a FIIO A5 to pair with my HD 6XX a couple of months ago and now I just bought a Sony NW-A55 which is supposedly underpowered. Hope my A5 will do its magic!


You can use a dedicated cable to get line out of the Sony into the A5. I use it with my Denon ah-d7200. It works wonderfully. I never use high gain but these are easy to drive headphones.


----------



## homesickmadmax

Luis Mad said:


> You can use a dedicated cable to get line out of the Sony into the A5. I use it with my Denon ah-d7200. It works wonderfully. I never use high gain but these are easy to drive headphones.


Interesting..
So all I need to control volume is adjust the knob on the amp? Better sound this way vs 3.5mm at 75%?


----------



## Luis Mad

homesickmadmax said:


> Interesting..
> So all I need to control volume is adjust the knob on the amp? Better sound this way vs 3.5mm at 75%?


yes and yes, imho. At least with my headphones there is more than enough power and excellent quality


----------



## Themilkman46290

So, seems my cheap AE battery is at customs, let you guys know if it was a success in a few days


----------



## Ronion

Is there any new amps available today that favorably compare to this one?  I’m having trouble finding one.  Glad I have an A5, but I know the battery won’t last forever.  Also, it there a shop that repairs these for when the time comes?


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Mar 27, 2021)

well I quess it depends, in North America, I don't think there are any repair shops (atleast not while I lived there) in Europe, South America and the rest of the world, yeat there are a lot of repair guys that will fix it.
For this money there are not any companies doing much, you can find weaker for a bit more money, something similar in power will be a lot more compared to the cost of this
Maybe ifi black label.


----------



## Ronion

Yeah--we don't repair much here unless it's DIY (which is the route I'll likely take when my A5 runs out of gas).  I want to do this with my e12 now but it still has a bit of gas in the tank.  This was a Goldilocks amp for sure.  I keep hoping Fiio will do another one just like it.


----------



## Julius Decimus

Ronion said:


> Is there any new amps available today that favorably compare to this one?  I’m having trouble finding one.  Glad I have an A5, but I know the battery won’t last forever.  Also, it there a shop that repairs these for when the time comes?


There are not many good separate amplifiers now. Only 5 years ago was completely different thing. Now they make dac/amp in one mostly, and with bluetooth. 

There is this brand: https://www.xduoo.net/shop/

You could take a look. Looking specs, this is like A5 in power. What is good about this model is has swapable operational amplifiers, so you can buy and change them easy if you do not want to do soldering. And change the coloration of the sound: https://www.xduoo.net/product/xduoo-xd-05-plus/

https://www.xduoo.net/product/xd05-basic/ - this is like A5 price, but the output power is down.

Both of these are bigger in size though....than A5.

Might be some other brands out there, other guys can meybe give you better advices.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Ronion said:


> Yeah--we don't repair much here unless it's DIY (which is the route I'll likely take when my A5 runs out of gas).  I want to do this with my e12 now but it still has a bit of gas in the tank.  This was a Goldilocks amp for sure.  I keep hoping Fiio will do another one just like it.


Sadly I seriously doubt fiio will, as I understood, the industry has stopped trying to make high powered stuff atleast at affordable prices.
Since the industry was trying so hard to sell high sensitivity, low impedance gear to use with your iPhone or ipod, the need to have a portable amp  with 800mw is too niche so expect to spend around $500 and higher
I maybe pick up another at some point.


----------



## Themilkman46290

I think the xduoo xd-05 plus is a little stronger, at 1000mw and it has a rollable op amp like Julius suggested


----------



## Ronion

That’s the one that I was just looking at.  It is probably the ticket out of this.  Personally, I have to do a lot of investigation before I make any decision, but that looks to be the best way forward.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Ronion said:


> That’s the one that I was just looking at.  It is probably the ticket out of this.  Personally, I have to do a lot of investigation before I make any decision, but that looks to be the best way forward.


I almost bought it, but it's a bit pricey, and bigger.
So I grabbed this, I don't regret but I have a lot of technical and mechanical skills so I can fix anything that goes bad, this just seemed like a steal
And I don't regret, this Lil amp pushes my planars nicely


----------



## runssical

Just FYI regarding xDuoo in general and the XD-05 in particular. Amir at ASR, has tested this year their new $500 desktop dac/amp and it measured very poorly. A total flop. The XD-05 was also measured by Wolf, also at ASR, with graphs posted and it's measurements were also lousy including very poor channel imbalance for the potentiometer. The consensus based on objective measurements is that xDuoo makes low quality gear. Furthermore, Amir has tested the A5 and it measured phenomenally well. I believe it's one of the best, or even the best, performing portable amps ASR has reviewed and tested. So unfortunately there is no equivalent substitute for the venerable A5. All the more reason why it's disappointing FiiO killed it. Really dumb decision imo.


----------



## runssical

I'm not hurting for a replacement A5 at the moment. My LG V20's Quad Dac chip is quite capable and at some point I plan to upgrade to an LG V60 when prices fall more. I think buying a used A5 and then hunting down a repair service to replace the battery would be too much hassle.


----------



## Ronion

@FiiO literally had the best portable game in town.  The A5 could run pretty much anything very well.  The e12 was nice too, just a bit less refined.  I get excited every time I go to their website and see it and then bummed out when I realize they are still not making it.  They just leave it up on the site to upset people with high impedance headphones who want to use them away from the desk lol.  Gets me every time.  The cruelty of it all.  The inhumanity!  The prejudice against high impedance headphone listeners who actually leave their residences has got to stop!  Okay, okay, I’m getting carried away, but it would be nice if they would make another run.  Sell it on drop for dorks like me.


----------



## riodgarp

hello, did anyone know if fiio e12 family has mechanism that stop recharging after the battery is full?


----------



## Themilkman46290

riodgarp said:


> hello, did anyone know if fiio e12 family has mechanism that stop recharging after the battery is full?


Not sure, but seems like it, light goes from on/off to steady on, then gets cold to touch
Maybe I am wrong but I beleive this means it's not charging anymore
But I am not an expert in this


----------



## Sonic Defender

They all have power blocking backed in. It would be a huge and obvious issue if they didn't.


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## RPlanto

Hello guys, I am thinking on getting an old A5. Don't really care about the battery because I plan to run it from a power bank. My question is if it is possible to run it continuously from a power bank.
Additionally, I would even prefer to just take out the battery if dead (bad past experiences with dead batteries getting inflated like balloons ). Does someone know if the A5 works with no battery only from the USB power?
Thanks a lot


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## CapnCook

RPlanto said:


> Hello guys, I am thinking on getting an old A5. Don't really care about the battery because I plan to run it from a power bank. My question is if it is possible to run it continuously from a power bank.
> Additionally, I would even prefer to just take out the battery if dead (bad past experiences with dead batteries getting inflated like balloons ). Does someone know if the A5 works with no battery only from the USB power?
> Thanks a lot


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...00-800mw-19vp-p-12-hours.819831/post-14707101

To me, iFi's reply implied it would run it could run without the battery. I have run mine off a powered usb hub for months and months, and have had no problems. When I do use the battery, it's life seems the same as when I bought it (used).


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## RPlanto

CapnCook said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...00-800mw-19vp-p-12-hours.819831/post-14707101
> 
> To me, iFi's reply implied it would run it could run without the battery. I have run mine off a powered usb hub for months and months, and have had no problems. When I do use the battery, it's life seems the same as when I bought it (used).


Thanks, that's encouraging, and surprising (your experience with the long lasting battery). 
Let's see if someone ever tried it with no battery at all.
Thanks!


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## Luis Mad

My Fiio A5 was getting little use. My headphones Denon Ah-D7200, Denon AH-D900 and Sennheiser HD599, and Etymotic ER4xr are all easy to drive and most of the time I used them directly connected to my Astell SR25. It is true i could get a nice result with amplification but the difference was very small and most times I just plugged them directly, using the Fiio A5 only in counted occasions.
Now this has changed completely with my latest purchase. I bought the AKG K712 pro. I listen mainly to classical music and the AKG with outstanding clarity, instrument separation and soundstage are amazing for classical music. These headphones are power hungry and sound is really weak direct out of my SR25. The Fiio A5 here makes wonders. With high gain the AKG sound like they should: fantastic. Yesterday I was listening to Haydn’s The creation and I was amazed with the strings and voices with the combination of the AKG and the Fiio.


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## runssical

Topping has introduced a new amp-only portable that may just be the first suitable upgrade/replacement path for A5 owners. 

https://apos.audio/products/topping-nx7-headphone-amp


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## Promenadeplatz

What?? 179€ !!!! Come on ....way to expensive!!!!


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## Luis Mad

runssical said:


> Topping has introduced a new amp-only portable that may just be the first suitable upgrade/replacement path for A5 owners.
> 
> https://apos.audio/products/topping-nx7-headphone-amp


it is expensive but it is good to know that the concept of the Fiio A5, a purely portable amp without dac, lives on. There are few really powerfull portables available at least in my country. 1400 mw that is powerfull!


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## Promenadeplatz

Let's check first how it works in sandwich mode side by side with a mobile phone and that it has no noise and other interferences.


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## Voxata

Looks highly interesting given the specs.


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## kismetsky

I posted this in another thread but the ifi xCan is a good substitute for the A5. 1W into 32 ohms with analog inputs and the added benefit of Bluetooth as well. $170 at Adorama right now : https://www.adorama.com/ifi310002.h...LXsl10nUkGUwhWOPQD32I0&utm_source=rflaid98220

I like it quite a bit compared to my old A5.


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## runssical (Feb 2, 2022)

kismetsky said:


> I posted this in another thread but the ifi xCan is a good substitute for the A5. 1W into 32 ohms with analog inputs and the added benefit of Bluetooth as well. $170 at Adorama right now : https://www.adorama.com/ifi310002.h...LXsl10nUkGUwhWOPQD32I0&utm_source=rflaid98220
> 
> I like it quite a bit compared to my old A5.



Two problems. 1) the battery in the xCan has a reputation of failing within 2 years of purchase. iFi refuses to sell or ship replacement batteries to customers with failing batteries. iFi intentionally uses a proprietary wire connector jack on their xCan PCB that impedes the ability of owners to buy a drop in aftermarket replacement battery. 2) the BO headphone jack on the xCan is a known weak link. instead of using a through-pin jack that has legs that insert into the PCB and are soldered on the back of the PCB iFi opted for a flimsy and unsecured surface mounted BO jack. Several customers have reported their BO jacks detaching from the PCB and being rendered nonoperative. iFi is aware of this problem and has refused to change production to a through-pin part spec. The cost between the alternative parts is negotiable. This is just reckless engineering.

Last year I had emailed iFi and also corresponded with one of their senior leaders on Head-Fi in effort to get answers on how I would be able to obtain replacement batteries for their xCan when it eventually began to not hold a charge. I got the run around from them. the Head-Fi rep told me to contact their customer service department using a customer ticket. I did that. My questions were never fully addressed. The reply was evasive and when I sent a follow-up question seeking clarity on the availability of replacement batteries, their cost, and whether they could be sent to customers, I never received a response. Other people have told me in private conversations that iFi tried to squeeze money out of them when they reported that their xCan battery had failed and no longer charged. The company wanted the customer to send the entire amp back to iFi via mail and wanted to charge the customer over $60 for the battery. That service fee quote may not have included return shipping and of course the xCan owner is responsible for initial shipping costs of sending the unit to iFi.

These small batteries sell for $8.00 on eBay so iFi is taking advantage of their customers with a 1,500% markup. They first rig the unit to frustrate DIY attempts by owners to get their xCan up and running again with an appropriately sized aftermarket battery. Then they refuse to sell reasonably priced replacement batteries and ship them direct to customers. Instead they make the customer pay a ridiculous fee and mail the product back to them.


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## kismetsky

runssical said:


> Two problems. 1) the battery in the xCan has a reputation of failing within 2 years of purchase. iFi refuses to sell or ship replacement batteries to customers with failing batteries. iFi intentionally uses a proprietary wire connector jack on their xCan PCB that impedes the ability of owners to buy a drop in aftermarket replacement battery. 2) the BO headphone jack on the xCan is a known weak link. instead of using a through-pin jack that has legs that insert into the PCB and are soldered on the back of the PCB iFi opted for a flimsy and unsecured surface mounted BO jack. Several customers have reported their BO jacks detaching from the PCB and being rendered nonoperative. iFi is aware of this problem and has refused to change production to a through-pin part spec. The cost between the alternative parts is negotiable. This is just reckless engineering.
> 
> Last year I had emailed iFi and also corresponded with one of their senior leaders on Head-Fi in effort to get answers on how I would be able to obtain replacement batteries for their xCan when it eventually began to not hold a charge. I got the run around from them. the Head-Fi rep told me to contact their customer service department using a customer ticket. I did that. My questions were never fully addressed. The reply was evasive and when I sent a follow-up question seeking clarity on the availability of replacement batteries, their cost, and whether they could be sent to customers, I never received a response. Other people have told me in private conversations that iFi tried to squeeze money out of them when they reported that their xCan battery had failed and no longer charged. The company wanted the customer to send the entire amp back to iFi via mail and wanted to charge the customer over $60 for the battery. That service fee quote may not have included return shipping and of course the xCan owner is responsible for initial shipping costs of sending the unit to iFi.
> 
> These small batteries sell for $8.00 on eBay so iFi is taking advantage of their customers with a 1,500% markup. They first rig the unit to frustrate DIY attempts by owners to get their xCan up and running again with an appropriately sized aftermarket battery. Then they refuse to sell reasonably priced replacement batteries and ship them direct to customers. Instead they make the customer pay a ridiculous fee and mail the product back to them.


Thanks! I did see your same reply in the original thread. 

What’s your personal experience with the unit? Are the others (Fiio and Topping) offering batteries direct to consumers? I’m still in the return window so any light you can shed on the alternatives would be great.


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## Themilkman46290

Not sure about topping, but I've had the a3 and a5 and both batteries held up well, and were fairly easy to get replacement batteries


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## Luis Mad

Themilkman46290 said:


> Not sure about topping, but I've had the a3 and a5 and both batteries held up well, and were fairly easy to get replacement batteries


would you mind sharing, how did yu get replacement batteries for the a5? did you change them yourself or some technical service?


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## Themilkman46290

I ordered a battery from ae then I changed it myself, wasn't too difficult, but I am the "diy" type of person


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## Luis Mad

Themilkman46290 said:


> I ordered a battery from ae then I changed it myself, wasn't too difficult, but I am the "diy" type of person


Many thanks for the info. I would surely mess it up! Diy and myself are in different galaxies. Fortunatelly my A5 still goes strong but I am using it much more nowadays with the AKG K712 pro that change radically with power. I guess I will have to try with a mobile battery replacement service when the time comes.


The topping Nx7 looks interesting though as an alternative


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## Ab10

Wish Topping NX7 comes with a true Balance Circuit.


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## runssical

I have never used the xCan. It has a good reputation for sound quality but not for build quality or longevity. A person on Reddit shared with me his ordeal with the iFi and a dying xCan battery. After iFi refused to send him a replacement battery he had to resort to doing his own DIY battery replacement. Fortunately, he had soldering skills and a knack for repairing electronics. He was able to buy a generic $7 battery off Amazon, desolder the wires off the dead iFi OEM battery and attach them to the new battery. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that iFi product owners have to do that just to keep their device working. 

What I've described in these comments is known as planned obsolescence. The iFi company wants to sell you an expensive portable amplifier and it intentionally die at predetermined time in order to force the owner to either (A) pay an exorbitant service fee to get the device working again, sort of like a ransom, or (B) buy an entirely new device from them. Both routes net the company big $$$. 

With most portable audio device manufactures you are going to run into the same problem. That includes FiiO and Topping. Now, they could, if they wanted to, design a portable amp that uses off-the-shelf round barrel lithium rechargeable battery cells. But of course they would rather you buy a new product from them every 2 years and keep the money rolling in.


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## Themilkman46290 (Feb 6, 2022)

runssical said:


> I have never used the xCan. It has a good reputation for sound quality but not for build quality or longevity. A person on Reddit shared with me his ordeal with the iFi and a dying xCan battery. After iFi refused to send him a replacement battery he had to resort to doing his own DIY battery replacement. Fortunately, he had soldering skills and a knack for repairing electronics. He was able to buy a generic $7 battery off Amazon, desolder the wires off the dead iFi OEM battery and attach them to the new battery. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that iFi product owners have to do that just to keep their device working.
> 
> What I've described in these comments is known as planned obsolescence. The iFi company wants to sell you an expensive portable amplifier and it intentionally die at predetermined time in order to force the owner to either (A) pay an exorbitant service fee to get the device working again, sort of like a ransom, or (B) buy an entirely new device from them. Both routes net the company big $$$.
> 
> With most portable audio device manufactures you are going to run into the same problem. That includes FiiO and Topping. Now, they could, if they wanted to, design a portable amp that uses off-the-shelf round barrel lithium rechargeable battery cells. But of course they would rather you buy a new product from them every 2 years and keep the money rolling in.


Been trying to explain this stuff to alot of people, planned obsolescence is a serious issues, few months ago I had saved up to purchase a air of Sundaras, since the he4xx held up so well, I thought it would be my next pair.
But after 2 and a half years, the earpads fell off, then the headband broke, so I fixed it, then after another month I was listening to them through my fiio a5 and I heard a fizzle and one side goes silent.
I realized I was a victim of planned obsolescence. So I did what we all should learn to do, I decided to stop purchasing anything from them again. Bought some custom headphones instead. 
Of course the guys in the he4xx thread said the hifiman is a very reliable company and that I was making a huge mistake taking some unknown custom headphone over hifiman top notch customer service, long warranty and great QC, (really laughable, seems they have paid reps pretending to be new headfiers)

When I started getting into headphones, was way back before apple got into audio and "revolutionized" the industries using the finest engineers to incorporate planned obsolescence to every aspect of there product.
There ipod was a hit, nevermind the zune player (that really sounded better) because they were able to make so much from it, the rest of the industry followed there model (increased marketing like crazy, artificially raise the price above competitors and use planned obsolescence everywhere) then companies like I River did the same, so there players were rebranded and the price was inflated to astronomical heights, and using apples model they became astell&kern.
They succeeded because of it.
Ibasso has better products, they don't use as much planned obsolescence, there customer service is better, there players sound just as good (if not better considering AK daps tend to have horrible output impedance compared to ibasso) but AK is winning
So are all of the compa ie doubling down on marketing and planned obsolescence
It is sad that the majority of people don't realize that they are the reason the industry gets screwed......
And let's not start with beats, a company that proved the "audiophile" world that you really can charge 300 bucks for headphones that sound like 20 dollars bass cannons and people would rush to buy them.
It worked and ever since the price of the average headphone has also raised.
That's why I got this fiio a5, easy to fix, powerful and cheap.
If anyone wants to try some seriously good, well made, custom planars
There are 2 Ukrainian companies currently making really good headphones, the ones I got are from a company sash but there is also verum. Both are made very very well, verum being more v shaped and sahs tres being more bright neutral neither of them use planned obsolescence.......


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## Themilkman46290

I actually almost bought the ifi xcan, but read about there terrible service and there use of planned obsolescence, it sucks.
It's like we now only get terrible choices. There isn't 1 good strong amp with replaceble batteries.


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## Zaiden (Feb 7, 2022)

Hello. What closed back headphones would have high impedance/pair well with the FiiO A5?

Closed backs typically have low impedance, since that is often a requirement for portability.

And I bought the FiiO A5 without contemplating that I never spend any time away from my desk - HD6XX - so the portable functionality is pretty lost on me.


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## Themilkman46290 (Feb 7, 2022)

Zaiden said:


> Hello. What closed back headphones would have high impedance/pair well with the FiiO A5?
> 
> Closed backs typically have low impedance, since that is often a requirement for portability.
> 
> And I bought the FiiO A5 without contemplating that I never spend any time away from my desk - HD6XX - so the portable functionality is pretty lost on me.


Well, it has low output impedance so it works well with alot.
I use them with my m565c, and with e-mu purple hearts.
It's not all about impedance, sensitivity is also important, my monolith m565c is 19 ohms but need alot more power then my 32 ohm e-mu purple heart  (planar vs dynamic)

There's also dt770 and dt1770

Sometimes I boost the sub bass and reduce other frequencies down, then the a5's extra power helps turn the purple hearts into sub bass cannons (don't do this as often as I did in the past, but fun for a few minutes)


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## KittySneeze

Themilkman46290 said:


> I actually almost bought the ifi xcan, but read about there terrible service and there use of planned obsolescence, it sucks.
> It's like we now only get terrible choices. There isn't 1 good strong amp with replaceble batteries.


I bought the xCAN in September of 2019, and had some issues with the battery holding a reasonable charge after owning it for about 1.5 years, which isn’t great. That said, I’ve had nothing but great experience with iFi customer support. I created a ticket for the battery issue, and they replaced it for free within 2-weeks of me sending it in for service. 

All in all, I’m still very happy with the purchase. It’s a hugely versatile amp given its high output power, Bluetooth capability, and relatively small form-factor. Honestly, my biggest issue with it was how easily the chassis showed fingerprints and oils. I solved the issue mostly by buying a Miter case though.

If you want a strong amp with user replaceable batteries though, I’d look into the PlusSound Cloud Nine. It’s got over 1.2W at 32 ohms and runs off two (2) 9V batteries.


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## lanister

I have a question. Since this is a only dedicated headphone amp. And my phone doesn't have a dac or a 3.5mm port. Can I use it with an dongle like avani or abigail to connect two of them?


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## FiiO

lanister said:


> I have a question. Since this is a only dedicated headphone amp. And my phone doesn't have a dac or a 3.5mm port. Can I use it with an dongle like avani or abigail to connect two of them?


Dear friend,

If your dongle has the lineout port, you could connect it to the A5 with the audio cable.

Best regards


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## Julius Decimus

lanister said:


> I have a question. Since this is a only dedicated headphone amp. And my phone doesn't have a dac or a 3.5mm port. Can I use it with an dongle like avani or abigail to connect two of them?


Yes, can.

Anything that has 3.5mm output. Your computer/laptop also.


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## Ronion

I have to admit that I love my e12 Monte Blanc just as much as my A5.  The A5 may have technical supremacy, but my e12 is brighter and more aggressive.  It brings its own gifts to the table.  I bet it goes for cheap used as well.


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## rodel808

Themilkman46290 said:


> I actually almost bought the ifi xcan, but read about there terrible service and there use of planned obsolescence, it sucks.
> It's like we now only get terrible choices. There isn't 1 good strong amp with replaceble batteries.



If you're looking for an amp with replaceable batteries (2x9V) may I suggest Ray Samuels Audio SR71A or XP7. I still use them today and works great with dynamic drivers (Sennheiser 580) and planars (Diana V2).  I still have a Fiio Q1 (the flask shaped one) which I got as my first amp into this hobby and battery life is now less than half.  It's too bad the battery is not replaceable.


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## ledzep

Themilkman46290 said:


> I ordered a battery from ae then I changed it myself, wasn't too difficult, but I am the "diy" type of person


Can you send us the link to the A5 rep' battery.


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## runssical

Has anyone here found an alternative to the A5? 

I've given up on the search. When Topping released the NX7 last year it looked promising but an Amazon customer left a devasting critique of the device. 

These days my mobile listening is mainly through some Sony Bluetooth headphones with LDAC or through the car sound system via Bluetooth standard.


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