# The 3D Printer Thread! :D



## a_recording

This is a thread on Head-Fi for this newfangled 3D printing thing. Inspired by the recent release of the Mr Speakers Alpha Dogs, I recently went out and bought a 3D printer!
My home is that this thread will be a general thread for all the budding makers and tinkerers on Head Fi to post about their own audio related 3D printer projects and to swap notes about their own experiences / builds and 3D printing in general.
If people's projects eventually need their own threads I will also try to link to them here. Hopefully we can get a community of adventurous peeps making some cool things!
  
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CHANGELOG
29/08/2013: Thread Created

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_There are lots of guides to 3D printers on the internet, but I will put a brief one here concerning 3D printing and audio gear. This will be updated and expanded as time goes on._
   
*Why 3D Printers?*
3D printing is a additive (layer upon layer) print process for 3D objects. While this technology has been available for some time to enterprises, in recent years we have seen the advent of smaller 3D printers at price points that individual households can now consider purchasing.
3D printers currently can print in a variety of materials including ABS plastic, PLA plastic and Acrylic resin. This has particular importance to the headphone community as the majority of headphone designs are made out of plastic. With 3D printing we have the oppurtunity to print everything from replacement parts for our headphones, to accessories like cable winders and headphone stands, right up to more involved projects like completely reshelling headphones!
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*Do I need to have 3D design skills?*

This was something I asked myself before I purchased a 3D printer. I personally do not have any professional 3D CAD (computer assisted design) skills beyond learning a bit of design & technology in High School, a semester of 3D animation / modelling classes at University and an understanding of how to use design software on computers. Basically if you are comfortable using Photoshop or playing videogames, I cannot see why you could not also learn to use a 3D printer.

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*What software do I need?*
Surprisingly, a lot of powerful CAD software specifically made for 3D printing is freely available on the internet. Since headphones are relatively simply geometric shapes, many of these software suites are quite powerful for the task at hand. I have started my tinkering with a few of the packages from the CAD giant Autodesk, and here are my observations:

*Tinkercad*
*http://tinkercad.com/*
Tinkercad is a free browser based 3D modelling program that was acquired by Autodesk. Tinkercad is a basic program with a very unintimidating interface, and lets you very quickly start making designs by combining basic primitive shapes into more complex ones. I have actually managed to make some very precise and complex objects in Tinkercad and the interface is very fast. Because the interface is so fast and intuitive, you can also import shapes generated in other 3D modelling programs and assemble them in Tinkercad for printing with great ease.
Limitations: Tinkercad does not currently support some more advanced features - for instance, curved edges on objects. This is a limitation because generally hard edges create unwanted interactions with soundwaves for audio gear. Another limitation is that Tinkercad does not currently support a high curve resolution for shapes made in Tinkercad like cylinders or spheres. Strangely, importing high resolution curved shapes made in other programs works fine for Tinkercad up to a point, though if the geometry gets too complex I've noticed that Tinkercad will generate artefacts on the 3D shape. I do not know if these limitations will ever be fixed considering that Autodesk now has several other offerings.
*123D Design Online*
http://www.123dapp.com/
123D Design Online is another free browser based offering from Autodesk. 123D Design is barely another step on the learning curve over Tinkercad with a similar interface, and offers some features that Tinkercad doesn't, including high resolution curves and curved edges / bevels. It also has some clever inbuilt primitive shapes to work with. However, it does not seem as fast or as stable as Tinkercad.
*123D Design (Desktop Version)*
http://www.123dapp.com/
Autodesk makes another free 3D modelling program for desktops, though it seems to bare little resemblance to the online version of 123D. 123D Desktop has a very stripped down interface and a powerful set of tools much more like traditional 3D printing programs. However it lacks some of the helpful primitives of the above two programs and I find myself wrestling with the very strange camera behaviour and somewhat unintuitive interface. It's possible to use 123D Desktop to generate some very high precision individual shapes and then import them as STL files into Tinkercad (but oddly not into 123D Design online) for assembly.

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*Which printer should I buy?*

Actually, to do 3D printing you do not even need a 3D printer. There are now numerous services online like Sculpteo http://www.sculpteo.com/en/ that will make 3D prints for you - upload a file to them and they can produce a plastic, acrylic - even CNC milled metal. Of course, there is a cost to this service - but for one offs this might work out nicely.

The advantage of having a personal 3D printer is lower material cost over time, and also the ability to very rapidly prototype changes. Something doesn't work or doesn't fit? Just print it again. You can achieve good results with just a few iterations of trial and error.

There are a bunch of 3D printers on the market and I won't review them all here, but it would be nice to have comments and observations in the thread about people's own experiences.

Personally I got myself an UP! Mini 3D, which I did a quick little video / setup review of here:







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*How much does it cost?*

Besides the initial cost of the 3D printer, ABS plastic costs about 5 cents / gram. You can print in a variety of colours and different plastic types.

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*LINKS TO PROJECTS*
a_recording's Fostex T50RP Driver Frame and Fostex T50RP Baffle Replacement


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## a_recording

*Fostex T50 RP Driver Frame*
   
  Here's my first project: a 3D printed Fostex T50RP baffle!
   
*Part 1: Initial Driver Frame*
   
   

   

   
  The initial driver frame was made in Tinkercad after taking dimensions of a Fostex T50RP driver. The curved edge smart shape was used from this maker: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:94631
   
  This part can be used to design new, more rigid T50RP baffles or to completely transplant the T50RP driver into other headphone housings. The part can also be printed out by itself to be used as a testing part to determine if the T50RP driver will fit in a given headphone and where the screwholes would go.
   
  This design prints out fine on my 3D printer but I am finding that the screw thread looks a little rough. Keep in mind that you need to keep the little rubber / foam square that comes with the T50RP driver to ensure a good seal.
   
*I have made this part available for download here: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:142059*
   
  This design is shared under a Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike license. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
   
  This means that you are free to download the part and modify the design for your own personal or commercial use. However, please credit me by linking back to the Thingiverse page.


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## a_recording

Part 2: 
   
*A full Fostex T50RP Replacement Baffle*
   
  I'm trying to design a full replacement part for the Fostex T50RP baffle.
   

   

   
  This design has what I think is a few advantages over the standard Fostex T50RP baffle.
   
  - Much more rigid design due to the large ring that acts as a brace for the entire part
  - The interior is a smooth, curved surface to eliminate any potential resonances / interactions caused by edges
  - The removal of the baffle side port as per bluemonkey's awesome incremental modding thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements
  - The baffle is now a much lower overall height, designed to sit only 2.5mm above the lip of the earcup. This means that it is easier to fit other earpads on this baffle (like the Shure 840 earpad) without stretching and damaging them.
  - The deeper ring about the baffle and the fact that the baffle sits flush with the ring ensures a better seal in the earcup.
   
  Issues: 
   
  With the latest iteration of this design I am getting issues with the entire part curling up on the build plate, possibly because it is too large. Once I can succesfully print off this design I will be able to see how well it works...
   
  ///////////////////////
   
*Update: 31 Aug*
   
  Worked out the bugbears causing the 3D prints to curl. Printed off two baffles and can now confirm that they fit and seal on the earcup!
   

   
  Compared to the stock pair of T50RP's I have on hand (with Shure 840 pads), these baffles remove a lot of the mid-bass bloat and to my ears make the T50RP sound more natural.
   
  The sound should be similar, but entirely the same as blocking the baffle side vent and using Shure 840 pads as suggested by bluemonkeyflyer's awesome T50RP modding thread.
   

   
  Again here are the differences between the stock baffle and my 3D printed part:
   
  - The baffle is now completely flat, removing the lip that causes unecessary stress on smaller earcups like the Shure SRH840
  - The baffle does not have a baffle side port like the stock baffle which should improve low frequency response as per bluemonkeyflyer's measurements
  - The retaining ring of the baffle now extends far into the earcup. This provides additional bracing to the baffle, making it more rigid, as well as improving the seal between the earcup and baffle
  - The baffle is now completely flush with the lip of the earcup, again improving the seal between the baffle and earcup.
  - There is no longer an additional layer of damping material between the T50RP driver and the Shure 840's earpad felt.
  - Most interior edges of the baffle have been eliminated or reduced to curved surfaces to prevent interaction with sound waves
   
*Update 2 September*
   
  First successful prints off my new roll of black ABS plastic!
   

   
   
  I am not sure what is causing the whitish texture on the earside of the baffle. Soon I will start exploring using acetone vapour to finish these parts to a smooth consistency. Right now I am printing at .25mm which is just off the max 0.20mm layer resolution of my printer. Right now each print takes roughly 1.5 hours to print.
   
  Here is the 3D printed part compared to the stock baffle:
   

   
  The printed part weights 22g versus the stock baffle's 20g.
   
  I may try increasing the thickness of the baffle in the 3D print baffle where this is possible, to further improve rigidity.


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## Armaegis

Very interesting. I imagine you'll start getting flooded with requests to make custom parts very soon.


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## a_recording

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Very interesting. I imagine you'll start getting flooded with requests to make custom parts very soon.


 
   
  I'm open to that :3 It wouldn't be bad to get the 3D printer to pay for itself. But for the moment it's just a lot of prototyping...


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## onefatsurfer

Awesome.  It would be really cool if you did measurements ala BMF in his incremental measurements thread, to document the changes that the 3d printed parts have on the sound.  That is a big undertaking though.  Keep up the good work!  Hopefully in the future I will be able to afford a 3d printer and will join you in this


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## a_recording

onefatsurfer said:


> Awesome.  It would be really cool if you did measurements ala BMF in his incremental measurements thread, to document the changes that the 3d printed parts have on the sound.  That is a big undertaking though.  Keep up the good work!  Hopefully in the future I will be able to afford a 3d printer and will join you in this




Unfortunately I have no ability to do measurements! But once the parts are near final I can start sending them to people who can give me an idea of how they perform.

I have a stock T50RP as reference myself.


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## a_recording

Updated the baffle post since I managed to print off the baffles successfully!


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## DigitalFreak

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Very interesting. I imagine you'll start getting flooded with requests to make custom parts very soon.


 

 I knew it would only be a matter of time before you showed up here, lol.


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## bluemonkeyflyer

Impressive ingenuity. Well done taking it to th next level. 

Thanks for sharing!


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## hans030390

Very nice! I'm keeping an eye on this.


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## bluemonkeyflyer

Quote: 





a_recording said:


> Part 2:
> 
> *A full Fostex T50RP Replacement Baffle*
> 
> ...


 
   
   a_recording,
   
  Would it be possible to program your baffle design so that the baffle "face" and "undersurface" are irregular instead of flat and smooth? I wonder if [size=small]small pyramids, for example, would improve the SQ by breaking up and dispersing sound waves that are then absorbed by acoustic foam and/or other materials?[/size]


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## a_recording

Quote: 





bluemonkeyflyer said:


> a_recording,
> 
> Would it be possible to program your baffle design so that the baffle "face" and "undersurface" are irregular instead of flat and smooth? I wonder if [size=small]small pyramids, for example, would improve the SQ by breaking up and dispersing sound waves that are then absorbed by acoustic foam and/or other materials?[/size]


 
   
  Haha, would you believe that I started working on this idea BEFORE even printing off these baffles?
   
  Essentially you are asking if it would be possible to print an acoustic diffuser on the baffle. The answer is yes. From what I read from doing research, pyramids are not the best shape for making a diffusive pattern because they essentially cause severe lobing off the two angled sides as opposed to diffusing the pattern equally.
   
http://www.rpginc.com/docs%5CTechnology%5CWhite%20Papers%5CAcoustic%20Diffusers_The%20Good,%20The%20Bad%20and%20The%20Ugly.pdf
   
  What you want is a 2-dimensional "Quadratic Residue Diffuser". The trouble is, feeding the values into the calculator I found here: http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/qrdude.htm I found that at the size you are making the diffuser, the diffuser could only theoretically work on high frequencies outside the range of human hearing, or is at an insufficient distance from the ear to be effective.
   
  Of course this is based on diffusers you would say, put on a wall. I have no idea of the effect of putting such a thing in an earcup. I tried such a thing on a smaller scale with a smaller headphone and though it did sound different, the diffuser displaced such a large volume of air inside the enclosure I could not tell if the sound differences were due to diffusion or simply to changes in damping.
   
  Once I nail down this baffle design I will do some experiments to see if putting the diffuser in the T50RP earcup will make any changes. Since you have the equipment and knowledge to get the CSD waterfall plots I'm happy to send you some of the prototypes to tinker with 
   
  As far as the baffle goes, right now the baffle would act as a single large radiating panel coupled with the driver. Ideally you would want the baffle to act as many small (and ideally) irregular panels to break up shifts the resonances far into inaudible high frequencies, so I will definitely see if making an irregular surface would make a difference.
   
  It would appear that Bowers & Wilkins had a similar idea with their flowport: http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Discover/Discover/Technologies/Flowport.html One wonders if you could minimise noise from air moving inside the earcup by creating a similarly dimpled surface inside the earcup.


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## FraGGleR

Awesome work.  Next step is to work on a cup ala the Alpha Dogs.  I'm bummed I didn't get my own set done prior to moving and losing access to a 3D printer.  Plus now that Dan has done his, mine wouldn't have been the original.


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## Armaegis

Quote: 





bluemonkeyflyer said:


> a_recording,
> 
> Would it be possible to program your baffle design so that the baffle "face" and "undersurface" are irregular instead of flat and smooth? I wonder if [size=small]small pyramids, for example, would improve the SQ by breaking up and dispersing sound waves that are then absorbed by acoustic foam and/or other materials?[/size]


 
   
  As a_recording has said, diffusers on such a small scale should not affect anything except the highest frequencies. I know you've found the foam pyramids to make a difference in the BMF mod, but I suspect this is more to do with the larger surface area for absorption rather than diffusion itself.


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## bluemonkeyflyer

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> As a_recording has said, diffusers on such a small scale should not affect anything except the highest frequencies. I know you've found the foam pyramids to make a difference in the BMF mod, but I suspect this is more to do with the larger surface area for absorption rather than diffusion itself.


 
   
  I typed before thinking!  LOL  I, now, recall we have had this discussion, before.
   
  RE: larger surface area for greater absorption - Paxmate Grids, or "lattice work," works.


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## a_recording

One thing that made me start tinkering with this is that I wanted to make consistent 3D parts that would allow for easy and reversible mods. Doing things with modding material like foam and paxmate etc. can yield some amazing results but it is also somewhat labour intensive and seems to lead to some wildly inconsistent results and guesswork from a lot of builds I have seen measured. I typically see modded T50RP's going up for sale all the time seemingly for that reason - people try to mod theirs, get to a certain point, and then lose confidence. It would be nice to have an easy "pop in" solution that improves the sound quality in a consistent way.
   
  Of course, the parts can also be a consistent base for further reversible and irreversible modifications...


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## a_recording

Yay, settled on a final design for the baffle (for now) and the new roll of black plastic I ordered came in. Time to print some prototypes for measuring!


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## FraGGleR

Quote: 





a_recording said:


> Yay, settled on a final design for the baffle (for now) and the new roll of black plastic I ordered came in. Time to print some prototypes for measuring!


 
  Hope they work well!  Next on to cups!  I have seen some interesting hybrid plastics for 3D printers that combine wood or metal with a polymer.


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## a_recording

Quote: 





fraggler said:


> Hope they work well!  Next on to cups!  I have seen some interesting hybrid plastics for 3D printers that combine wood or metal with a polymer.


 
   
  Aye I've seen a material called "Alumide" which is apparently nylon powder and aluminium dust. Not sure of its suitability as a non-resonant housing.
   
  There is also laser metal sintering, which is actually a very high end process of 3D printing with lasers and metal powder. I am not sure if this has many advantages over traditional CNC milling but I assume like any additive process it makes you make very convoluted shapes as one continguous piece.


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## a_recording

Updated the baffle thread with images of the black ABS printed baffles!


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## FraGGleR

Brilliant job, man.  Really nice.  Would love to play around with this and adapt it to different housings.  Hope some fellow Headfiers can help you out and measure how your baffles perform.  Does the flat surface interfere with ear depth?  The stock baffle is slightly concave.
   
  Also, do you still plan to mod the cups when used with your baffle (cotton, foam, etc.), or are you hoping the baffle does enough?


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## a_recording

Quote: 





fraggler said:


> Brilliant job, man.  Really nice.  Would love to play around with this and adapt it to different housings.  Hope some fellow Headfiers can help you out and measure how your baffles perform.  Does the flat surface interfere with ear depth?  The stock baffle is slightly concave.
> 
> Also, do you still plan to mod the cups when used with your baffle (cotton, foam, etc.), or are you hoping the baffle does enough?


 
   
  Thanks! I am definitely looking into getting these measured. I don't get any problem with the flat surface, but I guess it might be an issue for some because these baffles are a few mm shorter.
   
  I am not personally planning to do mods with cotton and foam because I want to see how far you can get just replacing parts of the T50RP. A 3D printer can get consistent results but foam etc can be variable as you can tell from the measurements done on many people's DIY mods. I want to avoid the potential for channel imbalance.
   
  That said, once the baffles are in people's hands there will be plenty of room for experimentation!


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## Nevod

Wow, just when I think that it's entirely doable to 3d print new, larger cups for Fostex, I read about Alpha Dogs. When I think that I could actually do that as well without much trouble - I see that thread. Fascinating!
   
  Sadly I don't have enough properly free time to dive into it yet, but will keep an eye on that thread for now.


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## a_recording

Seems even the manufacturers are experimenting! This is gonna be fun times.
   
http://www.yourbrainwavz.com/news_main.php?subaction=showfull&id=1374666568&ucat=1&template=widescreen&#disqus_thread


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## FraGGleR

I feel like 3D printing has really turned a corner in awareness and approachability in just the last several months.  I think as lay people get more familiar with 3D modeling, we are going to see and even bigger explosion.  I know that 3D modeling is what kept me from making T50RP cups last year.


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## durkk

Great work! Are you planning on making cups?


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## alpha421

Very interesting thread.  The whole 3D printing is taking off across many business sectors.  To the OP, do I see "MOT" status in the future?


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## a_recording

durkk said:


> Great work! Are you planning on making cups?


 
  


alpha421 said:


> Very interesting thread.  The whole 3D printing is taking off across many business sectors.  To the OP, do I see "MOT" status in the future?


 
  
 Yes and maybe haha!
  
 Very busy at the moment so I haven't had much time to experiment. I'll get there eventually though.


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## splaz

Just thought I'd mention, I read recently there's been a study done and apparently 3d printers put harmful emissions into the air, so may be best to operate them somewhere well ventilated, that is if you're not doing so already.
  
 Stay safe, looks good.


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## a_recording

splaz said:


> Just thought I'd mention, I read recently there's been a study done and apparently 3d printers put harmful emissions into the air, so may be best to operate them somewhere well ventilated, that is if you're not doing so already.
> 
> Stay safe, looks good.


 
  
 Yes, this is definitely something I read about! Don't worry, got plenty of ventilation :3


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## durkk

Thats great! I am ordering a pair t50rp cans today keen to start modding away!


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## AudioCats

how about printing some earcups that shapes similarly to the Sony R10?
  
 Then paint them in tomato red
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 / neon green
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 / zombie purple
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, that will be way cool.


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## graphidz

I have a few ideas of my own! But I'll post later on.
 For a start, how detail can the 3D printer be? I'm still knew to this tech and have less info on it.
 I wanna know if you can print screws using it and how small would that be?


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## W0lfd0g

I will be following this thread with interest.


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## a_recording

graphidz said:


> I have a few ideas of my own! But I'll post later on.
> For a start, how detail can the 3D printer be? I'm still knew to this tech and have less info on it.
> I wanna know if you can print screws using it and how small would that be?


 
  
 I wouldn't print screws with this. It might be detailed enough depending on the size of the screw, but the plastic is soft and the thread would wear pretty quickly. Much easier to fasten things with real screws and real threads which you could embed in the plastic anyway...


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## graphidz

a_recording said:


> I wouldn't print screws with this. It might be detailed enough depending on the size of the screw, but the plastic is soft and the thread would wear pretty quickly. Much easier to fasten things with real screws and real threads which you could embed in the plastic anyway...


 
  
 So it's detail enough to make it then? Good enough
 Well, I wasn't planning to make screws to tighten any parts. Just to make screws to be able to move some parts for customization, which I don't think will put that much pressure to the screws so as to wear them out. At least, not very soon


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## Mplakotoris

This is great I'm so glad that I stumbled upon this thread because I am also modding these headphones with 3d printing. I have the Up plus II and am currently printing my design in 2 parts. The 15mm z resolution is so fine and perfect for getting the smooth curves. I've also made a semi accurate model of the driver to use to design with. Feel free to use this to start your modeling. I also have the 3d file if the STL is giving you trouble.
  
 http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:118288
  
 I'll attach pictures once I get permission. 
  
 If you want to put screws just make an opening for a hex nut of the according size, buy the hardware then glue it in. Its a lot of extra work but its worth it. If you want a final product.
  
 Beautiful baffle by the way!


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## graphidz

Can somebody show me how does the end of the hangar (the gold/copper/etc bar attaching the cup to the headband)? Or maybe the whole bar? I may want to make a custom piece to hold the cup.


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## jpmilner

Awesome work! I've been playing around in the local fab lab with modding some t50's. Right now my first prototype is sounding great! I will post pics when I get a chance. I am using the 3d model as a basis for a wood design that we are going to throw on the cnc machine.


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## Vain III

Subbed


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## MaoTai

Very interested in 3D printing for this kind of mod. Ordered some T50RP's that I'll be doing some basic mod's when I'm back home after Xmas.
  
 Been thinking about modelling some new cups and getting them printed to see how they sound. Was wondering if anyone has some basic measurements for the T50's? Distances between the main cup mounting screws are probably the most important. If not I can measure them when I get back from holidays!


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## graphidz

maotai said:


> Very interested in 3D printing for this kind of mod. Ordered some T50RP's that I'll be doing some basic mod's when I'm back home after Xmas.
> 
> Been thinking about modelling some new cups and getting them printed to see how they sound. Was wondering if anyone has some basic measurements for the T50's? Distances between the main cup mounting screws are probably the most important. If not I can measure them when I get back from holidays!


 
  
 I think you need to request a_rec for that if he wants to that is.
  
 Or better yet, create your own! With a circular shaped cup, you can use the circular earpads more easily


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## PETEREK

Subbed.


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## jpmilner

Version 4 of my 3D printed cups.


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## PETEREK

Very nice. I'd love to buy a 3D printer Just for this. 

Is there a good, budget 3D printer? I would only need a printing area of about 5x5x5


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## jpmilner

peterek said:


> Very nice. I'd love to buy a 3D printer Just for this.
> 
> Is there a good, budget 3D printer? I would only need a printing area of about 5x5x5


 
 There are a couple... but it always depends on what you mean by budget.
  
 Check this delta printer out. It's 8 days from funding and it looks like a high quality printer. It's still $700 CAD but that's pretty good considering that printers were in the thousands not that long ago.
  
 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1784037324/bi-v20-a-self-replicating-high-precision-3d-printe?ref=live
  
 In other news, my build is coming together. My only snag right now is that the original screws will not work. I'm going to need to head to the hardware store and buy some machine screws that will fit my design. So far, so good though.


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## durkk

Wow! So sexy. Keep us posted (moar piccas tho! )


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## jpmilner

Thanks!

I didn't get as far as I wanted before I have to travel, but I be working on them over the next couple of weeks... Then we cnc a new set out of hardwood!


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## graphidz

I need a help. Can anybody post pictures of the metal rod holding the cups to the headband? Especially the part where it holds the cup.


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## jpmilner

graphidz said:


> I need a help. Can anybody post pictures of the metal rod holding the cups to the headband? Especially the part where it holds the cup.




I will get you a picture tomorrow. Its really pretty easy to tear it down to just the bare parts. It's 3 screws, I think. One big one to attach the cups to the clip that is on the rod and two to hold the plastic clip together. Pretty simple design.


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## jpmilner

Hope these are what you are looking for. These are photos of my T20s in pieces.


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## graphidz

jpmilner said:


> Hope these are what you are looking for. These are photos of my T20s in pieces.


 
  
 ABSOLUTELY!
 Thanks man!


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## jpmilner

Glad to be of service.


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## Transformatron

I've created a 3D Grado thread and can cross post if anybody is interested, or you can just subscribe.  I'm still prototyping but I have some good models going.


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## jpmilner

So, long time no posting...
  
 For the last month, I have been experimenting with my 3D model and design. I have to say that on the whole I got bored with the 3D printed shells very quickly. I became much more interested in putting the model into the CNC machine and building a set out of hardwood. Thus... pictures:


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## MuZo2

Post them in T50RP thread. Here is same I did with CNC


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## PalJoey

a_recording said:


> Aye I've seen a material called "Alumide" which is apparently nylon powder and aluminium dust. Not sure of its suitability as a non-resonant housing.
> 
> There is also laser metal sintering, which is actually a very high end process of 3D printing with lasers and metal powder. I am not sure if this has many advantages over traditional CNC milling but I assume like any additive process it makes you make very convoluted shapes as one continguous piece.


 

 Is "laser metal sintering" similar or the same as "selective laser melting", as used by Ortofon? http://ortofonmicrotech.com/technologies/selective-laser-melting.html
  
 Michael Fremer on the difference between a stock Ortofon cartridge body and a SLM one: _“After letting me marvel at and handle the gleaming aluminum shape of the MC A90, Leif Johannsen (Ortofon CO of Acoustics and Technology) took me to a secluded area of the hall where the flooring was made of hard linoleum. He held the body out in front of him and let it drop. With a ping, it bounced about two feet up in the air. Then he took a second cartridge body out of his pocket. This one was layered like a cross section of stratified rock, but more neatly and uniformly. From chest height, he dropped the second body. Instead of bouncing with a distinct ping, it hit the floor with a nonresonant tick and stopped dead, without bouncing back so much an inch. Now that was major.”_


----------



## graphidz

Hot dang those are beautiful!


----------



## jpmilner

Two pairs completed. They sound great!


----------



## MuZo2

Did you use damping inside?


----------



## jpmilner

muzo2 said:


> Did you use damping inside?


 
  
 I did. That portion is still a work in progress, but it's fairly easy to adjust it.


----------



## MuZo2

Can you put pictures of it, what are you using for damping? 
 Did you make holes in shell for bass? I see you made holes for wires on both sides like original.
 Why did you not use connectors on both side.


----------



## jpmilner

muzo2 said:


> Can you put pictures of it, what are you using for damping?
> Did you make holes in shell for bass? I see you made holes for wires on both sides like original.
> Why did you not use connectors on both side.


 
 Unfortunately, I can't take any pictures for a while. I finish my current show tomorrow and I have to get on a plane as soon as the curtain comes down. Everything is packed and ready to go.
  
 I've used cotton balls for right now. As soon as I'm settled at my next gig, I want to play with the amount and density.
  
 I prefer single entry cables. When I wear my AS2, I put the cable behind my head so that there isn't a cord hanging down in front of me while I work. I'm constantly dealing with papers and things in front of me and a cable just gets in the way. Also, I am experimenting with using the cable hole as my bass port. Seemed like a win win to me.


----------



## mcluxun

jpmilner said:


> So, long time no posting...
> 
> For the last month, I have been experimenting with my 3D model and design. I have to say that on the whole I got bored with the 3D printed shells very quickly. I became much more interested in putting the model into the CNC machine and building a set out of hardwood. Thus... pictures:


 
 Well done.
 BTW Im the asian guy talked to you in fab lab nice job.


----------



## Mahdi8

Great work. Any chance you's share the design file?
  
 Quote:


jpmilner said:


> Two pairs completed. They sound great!


----------



## BlueNote1553

Those are some beautiful looking cans, jpmilner!


----------



## jpmilner

mcluxun said:


> Well done.
> BTW Im the asian guy talked to you in fab lab nice job.


 
 Thanks! It was very nice to have met you.


----------



## jpmilner

mahdi8 said:


>


 
 I probably won't be sharing the files. Not because I can't or won't but simply because I don't have them on me and I'm now in Europe for the next 3-6 months (depending on contracts). Sorry about that.


----------



## BauerFIve

jpmilner said:


> Two pairs completed. They sound great!


 
 Oh wow, those looks really nice.


----------



## bootdsc

Only takes a few hours to learn how to use tinkercad and it's free. Design and model your own headphones, I did recently and am vary happy with the results. The only other tool you need is a digital caliper but they are cheap on amazon.


----------



## johnstevenjacob

I’m glad I came across to this forum. Now I got an idea what to print once my ordered filament at 3d2print.net arrives. Though I’ve seen a lot of ideas at the website, I still want something more useful and something I could use on a daily basis like a head gear. I’m thinking of printing it with this type of material: http://www.3d2print.net/shop/product-category/premium-filament/taulman/


----------



## bootdsc

johnstevenjacob said:


> I’m glad I came across to this forum. Now I got an idea what to print once my ordered filament at 3d2print.net arrives. Though I’ve seen a lot of ideas at the website, I still want something more useful and something I could use on a daily basis like a head gear. I’m thinking of printing it with this type of material: http://www.3d2print.net/shop/product-category/premium-filament/taulman/


 
 That link doesn't work but if you were talking about taulman t glass its really hard stuff to work with and since its polyester you don't want that touching your skin anywhere for long periods of time. So far ABS has worked out the best for the couple of prototype headphones i built, only material i haven't printed with yet that i would like to is polycarbonate, it needs higher temp then my solidoodle 2 can handle. Haven't used PLA because its to soft.
  
 Edited for clarity.


----------



## PalJoey

Heads up! Michael Fremer has posted two vinyl rips to compare - one recorded using the metal VPI tonearm and the other with the new 3D printed arm. 
  
 Link here - http://www.analogplanet.com/content/vpi’s-3d-printed-tone-arm-does-it-sound-better-worse-or-same-standard-metal-jmw-memorial-ar-0


----------



## pohoda

Just stumbled upon this thread. Just amazing! Here is my idea:
  
 Print a fully sealed can design with a vent for experimenting with air pressure instead of cotton (or any other) damping.
  
 This means - you start printing until you have baffle with driver frame, then put the driver inside and continue to print until it's fully sealed and done (I don't mean you to bake the driver in solid plastic but a normal cup with air inside). Like I said, for damping I would experiment with different air pressure - starting with full vacuum and slowly letting more air in. The prototype would need to have a pressure meter integrated and sealed to the cup for exact experiments.
  
 Edited for more clarity.


----------



## MuZo2

vacuum
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





air pressure
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




pressure meter integrated and sealed to the cup


----------



## bootdsc

pohoda said:


> Just stumbled upon this thread. Just amazing! Here is my idea:
> 
> Print a fully sealed can design with a vent for experimenting with air pressure instead of cotton (or any other) damping.
> 
> ...


 
 I think your missing the point of dampening material and closed headphones still have vents but normally somewhere inside the place your ear rests. Now for the 3d printing you cant just easily start and stop the machine, then you also have to deal with the heat. Not only is the print head 200c the build platform is 100c which is plenty hot to damage drivers given they will be baking away for 3 to 9 hours for a large print. If you could overcome all of that it might be a interesting manufacturing technique being able to print interwoven plastic support while using a pick and place to build the circuit.


----------



## PalJoey

There's a thought - could you print a set of headphone cups with a nice smooth presentable exterior but a massively porous inside surface, like KEF's A.C.E. approach? - http://www.hometoys.com/emagazine/2004/02/kefs-new-ace-technologyits-all-to-do-with-size/1725
  
  
 Or would that be a bit of a bugger to programme? Something fractal, perhaps, might do the same job, at least down to the minimum resolution of the printer in question.


----------



## MuZo2

paljoey said:


> There's a thought - could you print a set of headphone cups with a nice smooth presentable exterior but a massively porous inside surface, like KEF's A.C.E. approach? - http://www.hometoys.com/emagazine/2004/02/kefs-new-ace-technologyits-all-to-do-with-size/1725
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think thats what Mr Speaker does it for Alpha dogs?


----------



## PETEREK

Kind of, I think the webbing in the Alpha Dogs is to fix the recessed mids while keeping the volume in the cups big for staging.


----------



## bootdsc

peterek said:


> Kind of, I think the webbing in the Alpha Dogs is to fix the recessed mids while keeping the volume in the cups big for staging.


 
 The webbing is just how the infill is handled on a 3d printer if you don't make it solid infill. Print time and weight are more likely to be the reason behind not giving it a solid infill. Also it looks like there is almost no space left at all behind the drivers which makes sense for a ortho.


----------



## PETEREK

So you're saying there's no air passing through the webbing? That wouldn't be possible because the bass adjusting screw is on the outside of the cup above where the headband attaches so there has to be air passing through. It isn't a solid wall.


----------



## bootdsc

peterek said:


> So you're saying there's no air passing through the webbing? That wouldn't be possible because the bass adjusting screw is on the outside of the cup above where the headband attaches so there has to be air passing through. It isn't a solid wall.


 
 Well I have only seen the pictures so If someone out there has a pair and is willing to open them up to provide confirmation that would be nice. As for the bass adjusting screw there is a tiny slot that runs all the way through and that screw covers or exposes more of that slot which really is vary small and almost seems pointless yet that's all it takes.


----------



## graphidz

I wonder if you can share the measurements of the cup?


----------



## khbaur330162

I think this is a sick thread. Are there any people out there thinking about an "Open Source" audiophile community where we share ideas freely on printing our own -and/or simply where to source- various headphone parts, including drivers such as electrostatic or planar magnetic designs? I think it'd be really cool if there were DIY headphone designs and headphone kits just like the DIY amplifiers and stuff. If that community existed would this be our thread, or might we think about making a separate forum for all the possibilities that that might create? I mean, DIY IEM's (balanced armature drivers can be bought for relatively cheap, ear impressions can be made for "pennies," 3D printing and scanning is getting to the point you could just print your own custom ear molds pretty soon, although it's probably not there quite yet), 3D printable enclosures or volume knobs, or just various parts that are cost efficient to print, DIY headphone frames/cups that would allow for various baffle chassis to snap into place that could be surrogate homes for a slew of different (possibly -hopefully even- home brew planar) drivers, etc. Like that's such an awesome community I can't even imagine where all that would lead to down the road, and it would mostly be free, or cost of parts, plus the time/knowledge needed to design these things in a 3D environment (as well as time/knowledge to design and set up our 3D printers and where/who to source materials from) so we can print everything. And for people who don't want to go down that rabbit hole, other people with the time, knowledge and equipment can print kits and/or preassemble these kits for other people at the cost of whatever that's all worth to the involved parties.
  
 To tell the truth, I don't even have a 3D printer yet, nor any of the equipment needed to "print" my planar magnetic diaphragm design, but I've got some ideas on building a (at least imo) pretty sick planar magnetic driver inspired by a lot of the vintage cans that I've auditioned/owned/sold/drooled over over the years, while attempting to stay true to the original "cheap bastards" mentality of the Ortho Roundup thread. I came here to tell you guys all about it as well as share my CAD designs with you but then realized I was rambling about my own project and you might not be interested. So, do people want to make a separate forum where we design/build/tweak headphones and learn stuff with/from each other "for free," and if so, where do I sign up, or who wants to build it, because I've got some stuff I'd like to post that I think might interest a few people.?


----------



## MuZo2

I think you designed the layout for diaphragm for ortho. Were you able to produce it? I think with ortho if that becomes reality we can come up with rest of the design easily . magnet assembly etc. Some can be printed or machined.
 Seems because of conductive ink it can become a reality soon to produce DIY ortho drivers soon.


----------



## khbaur330162

So far I've designed a rudimentary planar magnetic circuit layout, yes, and I've only gotten maybe halfway through the process of creating an active planar magnetic diaphragm. The resolution on the current design can probably go even finer given the methodology I think I've pieced together in my mind to make it, but I don't yet have the equipment. I've found a very interesting supplier of flexible Copper-clad Kapton. Very thin substrate layer options and ample conductor width for a good amount of power handling. Might even serve well in a portable (40-55mm flavor) ortho driver, Idk. But this new Peachy Printer that's currently in Beta is like $120 shipped to the states. I'm thinking with the right software tweaks you could get the 405nm laser to expose your circuit artwork into a photopolymer film like PurEtch which you've laminated the diaphragm material with. I'm guessing the laser in combination with PurEtch film can achieve really high resolutions which could make designing more complex diaphragms kind of interesting.
  
 Conductive ink tends to have a very high resistance per unit of measurement. Through my journey of attempting to design a low user-cost ortho driver (I've spent a lot of money, but that's besides the point) I found conductive ink wasn't quite ready for this application. A lot of these inks needs a sintering process, many of which iirc are at temperatures above a lot of the melting points of the diaphragm substrates we want to use. Maybe conductive inks will get better? I don't know, but still, for it to be cheap to the end user the ink needs to be compatible with cheap, consumer-grade printers (piezo inkjet/pigment/die printers being the most likely candidate right now, afaik). And after the sintering process, can the conductive ink oscillate at 20Hz-20kHz without increasing in resistance, or shorting out completely? The reliability of printing an ortho diaphragm via conductive ink is what scares me. But ultimately I think you're right, conductive ink (given it had all the right properties for our specific application) would be a relatively cheap and easy method for people to start thinking about prototyping a driver.
  
 I've also designed magnet assemblies for the diaphragm circuit in mind. Much inspiration drawn from the TDS-15. Head-Fi member nickn suggested laser cut steel retention plates like Amfiton used to help direct stray magnetic flux. Done in a huge group buy it might be something to look into? Not sure what kind of added cost you'd be talking about to explore that option, and depending on the sensitivity we'd be achieving with whatever film/circuit design/magnet assembly we were using at the moment, the cost benefit might not be the greatest, imo. Directing flux could prove to be massively beneficial, however. I have not run this design through FIM to see if the flux even matches up with the current circuit design, let alone even dream of being close to optimal. All of the design phase measurements of everything I've shared here was done by eye and gut feeling, or a few tricks I learned while jumping between programs like MS Paint, Gimp and Sketchup (hence the diaphragm spacers ghost layer hovering over the magnet assembly in below pic). Oh, and the diaphragm spacers started out as straight up scanned images of an actual ECR-500 diaphragm, blatantly stolen. A lot of cleaning up was involved to get it down to a monochrome image, tbh, I don't know my way around any technical programs.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 


  
  
  

 It was made to accept common dimension Neodymium magnets which could be glued in place and sourced relatively cheaply, especially if done in group buys. Not sure on the correct adhesive to use here. Depends on the 3D printer and material you're using to print, I'd guess, and possibly the magnet plating. 
  
 Diaphragm circumference of my open source ortho is 100mm, iirc, with a similar radiating surface area to the vintage Fostex T50v1 and all its iterations. Radiating area is shaped after the Sony ECR-electret line of headphones to theoretically reduce diaphragm resonances. The ECR-500 also had these odd rubber dampeners which gripped the diaphragm spacers as seen here which might be an interesting idea to explore, imo:
  

  
  
 Circuit layout as it stands:

  
 Could be double-sided pretty easily, I think, although human error might get involved in the sound that way (haven't thought of a method), and I'm not sure double sided is worth it? Another thing to maybe look into if it interests you. And again, I'm guessing I could make the lines/widths a lot finer given the Peachy/PurEtch method, the resistance on that circuit might be really, really low given 9um Copper thickness and the total circuit length, which I don't know off hand.
  
 Spacers were designed to be laser cut, but they could just as easily be printed in my mind.


----------



## Q Mass

I'd like to ask if anyone has attempted to print a trace onto a diaphragm using a laser printer?

I understand that even a conventional laser printer uses ink which is conductive, and I further understand that the conductivity of that ink probably won't be adequate to the task here, but I'm curious to know if anyone has actually tried it?


----------



## MuZo2

I think there is a project to use conductive ink in printer.
  
 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1597902824/agic-print-printing-circuit-boards-with-home-print
  
  
 Peachy Printer to drive laser? I donot undestand this, use of 3d printer to etch circuit artwork?


----------



## Q Mass

Perhaps a better way to phrase my question would be:
Has anyone found a diaphragm material which will withstand the heat of being printed on with a conventional laser printer and ink?


This thread is indeed cool.
BTW I'd definitely subscribe to a thread of the type proposed by khbauer, great suggestion!


----------



## MuZo2

@khbaur Lets say if we can etch that pattern on pcb can we transfer it to kapton. If thats possible I think we can  make something quickly.


----------



## FraGGleR

khbaur330162 said:


> I think this is a sick thread. Are there any people out there thinking about an "Open Source" audiophile community where we share ideas freely on printing our own -and/or simply where to source- various headphone parts, including drivers such as electrostatic or planar magnetic designs? I think it'd be really cool if there were DIY headphone designs and headphone kits just like the DIY amplifiers and stuff. If that community existed would this be our thread, or might we think about making a separate forum for all the possibilities that that might create? I mean, DIY IEM's (balanced armature drivers can be bought for relatively cheap, ear impressions can be made for "pennies," 3D printing and scanning is getting to the point you could just print your own custom ear molds pretty soon, although it's probably not there quite yet), 3D printable enclosures or volume knobs, or just various parts that are cost efficient to print, DIY headphone frames/cups that would allow for various baffle chassis to snap into place that could be surrogate homes for a slew of different (possibly -hopefully even- home brew planar) drivers, etc. Like that's such an awesome community I can't even imagine where all that would lead to down the road, and it would mostly be free, or cost of parts, plus the time/knowledge needed to design these things in a 3D environment (as well as time/knowledge to design and set up our 3D printers and where/who to source materials from) so we can print everything. And for people who don't want to go down that rabbit hole, other people with the time, knowledge and equipment can print kits and/or preassemble these kits for other people at the cost of whatever that's all worth to the involved parties.
> 
> To tell the truth, I don't even have a 3D printer yet, nor any of the equipment needed to "print" my planar magnetic diaphragm design, but I've got some ideas on building a (at least imo) pretty sick planar magnetic driver inspired by a lot of the vintage cans that I've auditioned/owned/sold/drooled over over the years, while attempting to stay true to the original "cheap bastards" mentality of the Ortho Roundup thread. I came here to tell you guys all about it as well as share my CAD designs with you but then realized I was rambling about my own project and you might not be interested. So, do people want to make a separate forum where we design/build/tweak headphones and learn stuff with/from each other "for free," and if so, where do I sign up, or who wants to build it, because I've got some stuff I'd like to post that I think might interest a few people.?


 
 I like the idea of an open source thread, especially one around home fabrication tech.  I am subscribed to this thread as I do hope to get a 3D printer in the coming year, but right now I am focused on CNC machining.  I have a Shapeoko 2 coming and will share any useful designs I come up with.
  
 PS Big Chicago meet in a month!  Trying to drum up attendance.


----------



## PalJoey

Hum. Not understanding even half an iota of the technical stuff on this thread, is there a way of printing the circuitry, then laying the driver membrane on the circuitry after the printing process, so it sticks to it? Avoids the heat problems, as far as I can tell.


----------



## khbaur330162

q mass said:


> I'd like to ask if anyone has attempted to print a trace onto a diaphragm using a laser printer? I understand that even a conventional laser printer uses ink which is conductive, and I further understand that the conductivity of that ink probably won't be adequate to the task here, but I'm curious to know if anyone has actually tried it? Has anyone found a diaphragm material which will withstand the heat of being printed on with a conventional laser printer and ink?


 I believe we're confused here. The ultraviolet laser in the Peachy Printer is being used to break down inhibitor molecules in solution with the liquid resin. The UV breaks down the inhibitor molecules at our desired site(s) and the resin reacts with itself, or solidifies, much like a two part epoxy, afaik. To make things more complicated, the resin and laser strength are matched (inhibitor molecule density within the resin and number of UV photons bombarding the resin per second) and were designed to "cure" resin ONLY at the very surface of the liquid resin and ONLY wherever we point the laser (sunlight is not our friend here). By floating this resin on top of a salt water solution and by slowly dripping salt water underneath this resin, the resin slowly floats upward in our container allowing the laser to "print" objects out of this resin in three dimensions. I want to tell the software that my 3D object exists entirely within two dimensions, and I want to tell the software that that object exists on the plane of my photopolymer laminated diaphragm material sitting directly underneath the laser, and then I want the laser to make it happen. It theoretically will selectively expose the photopolymer allowing me to develop the image in soda ash so I can etch everything BUT my desired artwork.
  
 As for laser printing, this is what Wikipedia says: "*Laser printing* is an electrostatic digital printing process that rapidly produces high quality text and graphics by passing a laser beam over a charged drum to define a differentially charged image. The drum then selectively collects charged toner and transfers the image to paper, which is then heated to permanently fix the image." I'm fairly certain you could print toner onto whatever diaphragm material you have in mind to no ill effect, the heat should be minimal, but I'm also guessing the toner isn't conductive, so where that leaves you I'm not really sure. Not impossible, maybe we'll see conductive toners for laser printers soon, I really don't know if that goes against a laser printer's operating principal (if the toner was conductive, could it hold a static charge like that in order for the drum to pick it up/transfer it to your desired medium?).
  


muzo2 said:


> 1. I think there is a project to use conductive ink in printer.
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1597902824/agic-print-printing-circuit-boards-with-home-print
> 
> ...


 
 1. Interesting product. My biggest concern:


> *How long does a printed circuit work?*
> 
> At least 1 year as long as the printed sheet is not physically broken. As this is a kind of new technology, we have not yet conducted long-term endurance tests, but they worked more than 1 year. Rather than the circuit pattern, it is much more likely to happen that the printed sheets are physically broken as they are just paper. If you use printed papers in a wild environment, it would be better to laminate them.


 
 Can it withstand our applications environment? How long do we want these headphones to last? Apart from reliability it looks interesting. I wonder how many times they have to print their artwork in order to achieve those resistance values. How thick and heavy is the conductive ink after those prints? Will the ink clog my printer heads after x number of prints? The method just seems messy to me, and how well will it actually work? Regardless, I think it _could_ work, but whether or not that's the method I'd choose for an open source project like this is my question.
  
 2. Read the more in depth description I wrote for *Q Mass *on the Peachy Printer's operating principals and my intended use for it. I have another method in mind to create high resolution etch resists for diaphragm fabrication, but the equipment either is in repair or hasn't been bought yet. As I've searched for ways to accomplish this project I kept going back to trying to find the "perfect" metallized film, and I think I've found it (although polyimide might not be the best material to use here, perhaps Wharfedale got it right with pleating). Etching the artwork into a Copper clad board, lifting it off the PCB and then re-adhering it to your desired diaphragm material sounds time consuming, is still a subtractive process, and adds the mass of whatever adhesive you'd use to the diaphragm's final weight... which isn't necessarily bad, I guess. I mean I have no idea what the optimal "average density" is for a diaphragm of this size and shape being used to reproduce the audible bandwidth at the average listening volume... or if optimal is even objective in this case... or if the adhesive layer might magically act as some kind of frequency response shaping steroid, or perhaps a diaphragm resonance buffer. It's impossible for me to really say. Not even sure if serpentine is the route I should have taken, tbph.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






 As seen there, the stator on the ECR-500 selectively drives a ~55mm diameter portion of the electret diaphragm which just so happens to be suspiciously centered within the scalene pentagon. In order to stay true to the ECR-500 spirit we'd probably want a coil pattern. What's the difference? The serpentine circuit I've created might not play well with the engineering research already done and at work in our ECR-headphones.
  
  



fraggler said:


> I like the idea of an open source thread, especially one around home fabrication tech.  I am subscribed to this thread as I do hope to get a 3D printer in the coming year, but right now I am focused on CNC machining.  I have a Shapeoko 2 coming and will share any useful designs I come up with.
> 
> PS Big Chicago meet in a month!  Trying to drum up attendance.


 
  
 Will be interesting to see what we can cook up in here, glad to have you on the team! I've been "on vacation" from this hobby for so long I almost have no idea what kinds of equipment and music would jump out at me at a meet like that. I'll think about it, it sounds like fun.
  


paljoey said:


> Hum. Not understanding even half an iota of the technical stuff on this thread, is there a way of printing the circuitry, then laying the driver membrane on the circuitry after the printing process, so it sticks to it? Avoids the heat problems, as far as I can tell.


 
 There are lots of guys using Aluminum tape over in the diyaudio forum. Not sure how that method would measure for headphones, I think the mass and overall resolution (which will affect impedance) of the circuit design that you'd be able to create would be your limiting factors taking that approach. Printing you circuit and adhering it to your diaphragm substrate isn't a bad idea, I just haven't put too much thought towards that direction, I was pursuing a direct print, selective vacuum vapor deposition (similar to RFID antenna fabrication technology), or just etching the darn things myself. If we could find a company that could print our diaphragms (a Chinese ribbon tweeter manufacturer, perhaps) and convince them through the power of a group buy, perhaps we could get diaphragms printed for us, Irdk. BUT!!!! I especially like the Peachy Printer community, I think that product has a lot of potential. I'd almost rather do more work and make the diaphragm myself because it gives me another toy to mess around with and I could then prototype tons of different circuits, not just planar magnetic diaphragms. I always wanted to learn about amplifier technology, but barely got my feet wet. Being able to pull schematics off the internet and print them from the comfort of my own home sounds pretty hardcore, even though I'd barely know how to populate them...
  
 Links to interesting reading material on the subject:
 Planar magnetic headphone drivers out of mylar film and aluminum tape.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphone-systems/228986-full-range-planar-headphones-using-neodynium-magnets.html
 Planar magnetic speakers out of mylar film and aluminum tape.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/95541-full-range-planar-speaker-using-neo-magnets.html
 Planar magnetic speakers out of mylar, aluminum foil, and a chemical etching process. (Not yet personally read)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/255960-viability-test-diy-screen-printing-planar-magnetics.html


----------



## Q Mass

Thanks for the explanation of the Peachy dude.
Its a very interesting tech', but my query wasn't aimed at that at all.

I was hoping someone could enlighten me regarding whether a thin diaphragm material of the type which would suit our purposes could survive the heat encountered in a conventional office laser printer.

It seems from your Wiki quote that heat is used to
'fix' the ink, so this, and the heat (if any) from the laser itself are my concerns.
Would thin Kapton/Hostaphan/Mylar/whatever survive this heat if printed on directly by a laser printer?


Also:
I may well be labouring under a misapprehension regarding the conductivity of conventional laser printer ink.
Whenever I google around the subject all I get are the proposed projects to create new inks or tech' to achieve printable circuits, but I thought I'd read that conventional laser print ink has some conductivity.
Anyone know if this is true?

The AgIC inkjet printed circuit tech is very interesting, I wish it was already available as that wouldn't even involve heat!

I know this thread is supposed to be about 3D printing, so sorry about the OT, I'd create an 'Open source DIY ortho' thread myself but that probably wouldn't be wise given my very limited understanding of the issues involved.


----------



## khbaur330162

I don't think the heat involved with laser printing is an issue, and I'm pretty sure it can be used as a direct print etch resist. Sounds really, really cheap. Probably the easiest method if the resolution is up to the task, which I'm fairly certain it is. Easily worth looking into if someone's got some metallized film that they can feed through a laser printer. I've looked into methods for tensioning the diaphragm, settled on clips, string, weights and pulleys, but haven't built any kind of jig for it, yet. In a pinch I planned to just use tape and a table like some of the guys in the DIY electrostatic thread. Here are the files for the magnet assembly and spacers if anyone's interested.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:341212/#files


----------



## khbaur330162

Cool update for those interested.
http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.php?3190-Exposing-Photopolymer-Laminated-Copper-Clad-Boards-With-A-Peachy&p=17286&viewfull=1#post17286
 Looks promising for a preliminary trial run, imo.


----------



## MuZo2

Can you post picture of PurEtch material.


----------



## khbaur330162

Jennifer has some videos up of her using her product. Fast forward to 1:00 to see her unroll, slice up, and laminate some of her film onto a blank.
  

  
 PurEtch is not a "special" product, really, there are many other photosensitive films that you can use in exactly similar fashions. The cool thing about PurEtch, imo, is how thin the photosensitive layer is. If you check out the link I provided directing you to the 3D printing forums you'll notice the Peachy Printer logo is underexposed which means (if I'm understanding Pete's process correctly) the laser is either "too weak" or the laser simply needs to spend more time exposing any given location. If he had used PurEtch instead of a presensitized Copper clad board the exposure time might have been perfect. Again, though, PurEtch is not the star of this show, you could substitute just about any photosentitive film/product, I'd wager.
  
 Oh, and if you read on into that 3DPrintBoard thread you'll see they're discussing direct etch resists resin printing. This would make things even easier as there would be no developing stage. You take a piece of diaphragm material, throw it into the printing bay, it prints your circuit in plastic (which will act as an etch resist for the underlying Copper) on top of the Copper layer, then you drop it into an acid bath for etching... Would be too good to be true if it worked without (m)any hitches. About as easy as printing your etch resist using a laser printer/toner... Plus the benefit of being able to put an etch resist virtually anywhere on a 3D object with a healthy dose of calibration and effort. And of course being able to print 3D objects. We don't "need" the Peachy to help us make our diaphragms, but if it can I'm not complaining, and any techniques we develop here could be used for countless other hobbies, at least in my mind.


----------



## nick n

What about precision silkscreening using special ink of whatever "concentration" you thought worked the best. You could vary concentrations, types etc for trials.
 Burn the image in with the light to your printing screen and it's good for a while. And reasonably cheap to do. Though not sure how the screen would hold up but it woild be more than one trace set on a sheet.
  
 If you didn't want to explore that there is the other method using the green ( if I recall ) mask film that you precisely cut away the shape you need.
 With the right initial burn of the mask on the screen and proper setup hinged correctly and strongly you can get some really fine lines going.
  
 Just an idea.
  
 The flux plates could either be simple flat ones like the yamahas used, or u channeled ones similar to what the current fostex lineup uses along the bar magnets.
  
 I dunno really


----------



## khbaur330162

The MakerJuice Flex resin looks interesting. I think you could print an entire Grado style headband and whatever cups you want out of the Flex and Stiff resins, but Idk what any of the stuff is like irl, or how well it would hold up over time to everyday usage. But a couple Grado-clone yokes and friction set hinge/head size adjuster boxes, driver housings, baffle adapters that accept whatever pads you want, all out of the Stiff resin, few screws to keep it all together sourced from a local hardware store, or maybe it snaps together, headband out of the Flex resin, etc.


Spoiler: reference here











 Idrk, either. They're looking into bio-resins which sounds pretty cool. I wonder if you could eventually just smash up and compost failed printed designs, like backyard recycling or something.
  
 I agree, the T50RP is a grab bag of tricks. Deriving an open source ortho from its design would definitely be on the right track to something, imo. Remember when T50RP's sold for like $50...? Anyway, the flux plates have to be cheaper than the magnets themselves for it to make sense, right? At least in the sense of wrapping the flux back around towards the diaphragm in order to cut down on the number of needed magnets. If we're trying to eek out a few extra dB/mW's then you could just take my preexisting magnet assembly, horizontally slice off everything beneath the bottom of the magnet slots in the z axis (the magnets should be able to slide all the way through with some applied force, the "magnet assembly" is now basically a frame work of windows that the magnets lay inside of), and then you take the remainder of the design (the part you sliced off) and mill that with a CNC machine out of SS sheets bought off Amazon, or something, and then sandwich everything together. You just basically need 100mm perforated SS coins stamped out. You could print retention rings, or whatever else you need, out of resin to finish off the build in my mind.


----------



## Q Mass

Regarding magnets:
Is there any reason that they must be bar mag's?

Could a whole bunch of smaller round or square mags arranged in a grid be used?

I'm certain I saw a detailed explanation of how planar diaphragms interact with magnet assemblies, with diagrams, but I've been searching for this without success, and I can't remember the details.

Does anyone else remember the post or page I'm thinking of?


----------



## MuZo2

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/how-planar-magnetic-headphones-work


----------



## PalJoey

q mass said:


> Regarding magnets:
> Is there any reason that they must be bar mag's?
> 
> Could a whole bunch of smaller round or square mags arranged in a grid be used?
> ...


 

 Hey, go the whole hog and use electromagnets!


----------



## Q Mass

Thanks man, that gives me a better understanding of what's going on between the magnet assemblies.
  
 I guess that the bar magnets allow the serpentine strip of the trace to make best use of the magnetic fields without 'wasting' parts of the trace upon the gaps which would inevitably appear between the magnets more often on a 'grid' type arrangement.
  
 The Inner fidelity article is very good, I wonder if Tyll would consider expanding it with info on single sided assemblies like the Abyss ( I think I've read that these are single sided )  and the Opo PM1 ( I'm less certain re' these being single sided )?
  
 Has anyone ever made an ortho' that uses electromagnets?
  
 P.S. sorry again about all the O.T, but I suppose that all the tech' we're discussing here could potentially be home fabricated with the help of 3D printing!
  
 Edited for typo's


----------



## khbaur330162

Quote:


q mass said:


> 1. I guess that the bar magnets allow the serpentine strip of the trace to make best use of the magnetic fields without 'wasting' parts of the trace upon the gaps which would inevitably appear between the magnets more often on a 'grid' type arrangement.
> 
> 2. Has anyone ever made an ortho' that uses electromagnets?
> 
> 3. P.S. sorry again about all the O.T, but I suppose that all the tech' we're discussing here could potentially be home fabricated with the help of 3D printing!


 
 1. Actually, the "grid" you mention could benefit diaphragm stability much like the zig-zag traces on the T50RP. Here's a picture of a somewhat unique diaphragm circuit layout using a grid of smaller square magnets like you imagined. The patent goes into further detail on everything, but I just wanted to post that picture so you could see the flux lines jumping from North to South between all the magnets. You can play with the right hand rule and the direction of current and figure out how the diaphragm interacts with everything, or see how all traces are pulled in the same direction.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
  
http://www.google.com/patents/US6963654#v=onepage&q&f=false
  
 I really like this design.
  
 2. The diaphragms of all orthos are electromagnets. I like the idea of utilizing the mind-bendingly strong magnetic fields produced by today's neo's, it's like free efficiency. And I like the idea of being able to use traditional headphone outputs in smartphones, computers, etc., it's why I wanted to design an ortho instead of a stat.


----------



## PalJoey

Raising the bar, anyone ever heard of ionophone headphones?


----------



## khbaur330162

Yeah. I wonder if you could miniaturize the plasma arc element enough to be suitable for IEM/canalphone use. Like what types of materials/fabrication processes would be involved, and if it even makes sense to think about. Perhaps a dynamic woofer to vent the enclosure of ozone? And then maybe a line array of like nine tiiiny plasma arc drivers sparkin' away? Not sure if the line array idea does anything for us here, maybe makes it safer since you can control the smaller spark gaps easier, I'd imagine, or maybe it'd be more efficient somehow. Yeah, massless transducer IEM's sounds pretty neat.


----------



## PalJoey

khbaur330162 said:


> Yeah. I wonder if you could miniaturize the plasma arc element enough to be suitable for IEM/canalphone use. Like what types of materials/fabrication processes would be involved, and if it even makes sense to think about. Perhaps a dynamic woofer to vent the enclosure of ozone? And then maybe a line array of like nine tiiiny plasma arc drivers sparkin' away? Not sure if the line array idea does anything for us here, maybe makes it safer since you can control the smaller spark gaps easier, I'd imagine, or maybe it'd be more efficient somehow. Yeah, massless transducer IEM's sounds pretty neat.


 

 I love the smell of fried cerebellum in the morning!


----------



## 00940

I had to google it... http://www.laborantes.com/iono2.htm
  


> What happened to the Ionophone? Well, we learned that most good things have a side-effect: after prolonged music-listening we felt some slight irritation of the skin in the auditory canal affected by the partially ionized air. There would have been means to reduce this effect, but while studying Physics there are still other priorities left!


----------



## dwib44

How heavy are those wooden cups?


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

q mass said:


> The Inner fidelity article is very good, I wonder if Tyll would consider expanding it with info on single sided assemblies like the Abyss ( I think I've read that these are single sided )  and the Opo PM1 ( I'm less certain re' these being single sided )?


 
  
 I had the great pleasure of visiting the Audeze factory last Monday after the Newport show to get schooled on planar magnetic design topologies by their lead researcher. It was fascinating. I will be doing another "How Planarmagnetic Headphones Work" article to expand on some of the various configurations work.


----------



## MuZo2

@khbaur330162 - Is this something that can be used to cut traces ?
 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1537608281/lazerblade-the-affordable-laser-cutter-engraver


----------



## khbaur330162

I have no idea how powerful that laser is, tbh. Burning away the Copper with a laser doesn't sound like the right approach to me, though, at least if we're trying to make an ortho diaphragm for headphones. I just figure if the laser is burning through your Copper layer it's also obliterating the few microns of Kapton you've got underneath it. Maybe for speaker use? Making loooong cuts in Aluminum tape that are meant to be adhered separately to the diaphragm substrate, perhaps. 
  
 -Edit-
 Rofl! I'm not with it, I think. You meant just turn the power on the laser down and use it to expose your etch resist? Yes, that's more or less exactly what I have in mind.
LazerBlade FAQ 





> With it's current motor / belt / pulley setup, the LazerBlade has a mechanical resolution of 0.08-0.1mm. This equates to approximately 300 DPI.


 
 If that's "real world" true it sounds good enough to me.


----------



## bentobox

Subbed


----------



## Q Mass

tyll hertsens said:


> I had the great pleasure of visiting the Audeze factory last Monday after the Newport show to get schooled on planar magnetic design topologies by their lead researcher. It was fascinating. I will be doing another "How Planarmagnetic Headphones Work" article to expand on some of the various configurations work.


 

 Oooh!
 Looking forward to that too Tyll!


----------



## robakri

Hi guys.
  
 I'm looking for sources on t50rp cup design, looking to see if I can get a design done and mill it. I'm looking in terms of wooden cups, so a bit off topic. Anyone care to share designs and possibly some good sources to read?


----------



## MuZo2

Check the thunderpants thread there are some dimensions there.


----------



## bootdsc

robakri said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I'm looking for sources on t50rp cup design, looking to see if I can get a design done and mill it. I'm looking in terms of wooden cups, so a bit off topic. Anyone care to share designs and possibly some good sources to read?


 
  
 Well its pretty easy to learn 3d design, tinkercad is a free online design software that you can learn in a couple weeks. Below is a link to my thread with 3d printed t50rp headphones, i have been meaning to update and post the .stl's (3d model files) but since there has been zero interest i haven't bothered. My models would make for a good starting point for anyone wanting to design there own t50rp housing. Don't worry to much about the design you choose, the placebo effect will do all the heavy lifting so the design hardly matters.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/716835/3d-printed-headphones-wip


----------



## robakri

I know plenty of 3D design and CAD, so that won't be a problem, what I want to look into if there is some way to design these cups in a more strategic way than "ooh this could be good" if I can approach it from a more like an engineering perspective.


----------



## bootdsc

You could go the more scientific way, build 3 versions and the 4th being stock then do a test with a small group of people to see which version they like more and also to weed out the placebo effect (not supposed to talk about AB testing or any non subjective opinions on headfi)
  
 Other then building and trying out the design there really isn't a way to figure out how the finished housing will effect the sound as there is no "right way" of going it. Fully open designs are vary forgiving like mine but with a closed back every little detail matters and can be a bit frustrating to fix all the issues a closed design has. The Orthodynamic roundup thread is probably the most active thread of people building and modding there own headphones and you can learn a lot about proper dampening and some have built woodies, maybe ask them about it.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/111193/orthodynamic-roundup/23430#post_10827131


----------



## tarsonis

Build three version of the baffle (different thickness and curves) and used a digital calipers. Worked great. All threads were fine and placed correctly.


----------



## frank2908

http://www.head-fi.org/t/752877/3d-printed-closed-headphones-with-hd800-driver
 I builded a prototype closed headphones with hd800 driver. The beauty of 3d printer is that you can make as many iteration as you can.


----------



## Folex

Is there any suggestions for an accurate and easy to use 3d printer for making headphone cups under $1,000 ?


----------



## PETEREK

folex said:


> Is there any suggestions for an accurate and easy to use 3d printer for making headphone cups under $1,000 ?




I'll add onto this. The printer doesn't need to be large, Folex and I won't be printing anything over the size of 5"x5" more than likely.


----------



## frank2908

folex said:


> Is there any suggestions for an accurate and easy to use 3d printer for making headphone cups under $1,000 ?As


 
 As the above post, I have been using a printrbot simple metal (around $400-500) and it work fine making the 3d printed cup and baffle for my hd800 driver. Try to seek any 150x150x150 mm build volume, since the max cup diameter ever build (lcd-2 or sony r10) and maximum earpads diameter is 110mm.
 A printer without heated bed(stock printrbot simple metal) is good enough if you want to build in pla (as I did), wood or bronze fill. If you want to print in ABS, buy the heated bed accessory plus a hair dryer for better result.


----------



## PETEREK

frank2908 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/752877/3d-printed-closed-headphones-with-hd800-driver
> I builded a prototype closed headphones with hd800 driver. The beauty of 3d printer is that you can make as many iteration as you can.


 
  


frank2908 said:


> As the above post, I have been using a printrbot simple metal (around $400-500) and it work fine making the 3d printed cup and baffle for my hd800 driver. Try to seek any 150x150x150 mm build volume, since the max cup diameter ever build (lcd-2 or sony r10) and maximum earpads diameter is 110mm.
> A printer without heated bed(stock printrbot simple metal) is good enough if you want to build in pla (as I did), wood or bronze fill. If you want to print in ABS, buy the heated bed accessory plus a hair dryer for better result.


 
 Is the image you're printing completely smooth on the computer before it's printed by your printer and gives you the first post I quoted's finish? Ideally, we want a finish that we will not have to sand smooth after printing.


----------



## frank2908

The cup is spray painted. You can get similar finish by printing in abs then put them in vapor acetone.


----------



## Folex

What plastic works best for headphones ?


----------



## frank2908

folex said:


> What plastic works best for headphones ?



Wood fill is too soft and bronze fill is too heavy. Pla is more stiff and produced more resonance at higher frequency than abs. You can use either pla or abs but you need to mass damp them with dynamat or platicine.


----------



## Rennokas

What kind of fill is the bronze one ? is it somekind of plastic+metal compound ? Using metal u should be able to just make a thinner layer, to reduce the mass.


----------



## CptanPanic

Has anyone tried 3d printing IEM shells?


----------



## Folex

cptanpanic said:


> Has anyone tried 3d printing IEM shells?


 
  
 http://ownphones.com


----------



## CptanPanic

folex said:


> http://ownphones.com




I was asking in terms of DIY.


----------



## MuZo2

I dont think so.


----------



## ZGLISZCZ

cptanpanic said:


> Has anyone tried 3d printing IEM shells?


 
 I believe you can do that just like any other design but it will be tricky, you need to know sizes of internal driver etc. to fit it inside shell, also without 3d scan of your earcanal it might be hard to design proper shape of enclosure that will fit perfectly.


----------



## elchacon

Any recommendations on the best 3D printer to get? I've been looking through different guides, like 3DForged.com's and 3DHubs' guide.
  
 I'm leaning towards the QIDI TECH I, but any suggestions would be helpful!


----------



## hasmac

My first 3D printed headphone parts, if they're useful to anyone else please feel free to download the designs from Tinkercad or Thingiverse
 These were done on an UP! Plus mini 3D printer.
 The slider kit I could have done on an LPKF PCB mill or Gravograph laser cutter, it's only a 2D solution, but I didn't have any suitable stock material to hand, it was easier to just print it. 
  
*Beyerdynamic DT48 Slider Kit*
 https://www.tinkercad.com/things/8g37GGwZ88Z-beyerdynamic-dt48-slider-kit
 http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2156747
  
*CMOY_BB Front Panel* - made to fit the CMOY_BB circuit board into a 71x25x100mm project box.
 https://www.tinkercad.com/things/j2O9YiFa0Z6-cmoybb
 http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2156733
  
*Y cable splitter* - work in progress, I've yet to print this myself
 https://www.tinkercad.com/things/lwLZduMPx1F-y-cable-splitter
 http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2156712


----------



## Taavi Lipamae

Actually that's awesome!
 Recently I bought a LulzBot Taz 6 3d printer. For me it was a hard choice which printer to buy, because there are so many printers out there, 
 I tried to follow these guidance : http://3dinsider.com/3d-printers-for-sale/ and It actually helped me to find a good one. 
 My budget was really limited, so I found some variants for less then 400 USD.  Awesome!


----------



## sainteb (Jul 10, 2019)

-edit-


----------



## dgindlespergerd

Love mine


----------



## DrivenKeys (Sep 3, 2019)

Well, it seems perhaps time to bring this thread back to regularity. Considering you can buy perfectly serviceable printers for under 200 bux, complete with some premium features, I've decided to cool it on buying headphones and use that can cash for something that will allow me to realize my designs overnight. Good drivers can be had cheaply, and I think we could start designing and sharing to create a truly unique corner of this community.

I used to love carving wood and making molds for fiber/resin, it's just a ton of messy work, and easy to ruin small details. Yes, designing in 3D and learning all the ins and outs of the printer takes time. Unlike hand-fabrication, the initial effort will exponetially save time for future projects. Of course, my $200 printer won't make perfectly smooth results, but it will make a product I can quickly refine without much effort. While planning my first cup, I've collected several old phones and supplies before the cost and time comparison to 3D printing couldn't be ignored. Of course, I'll always love pure hand-fabrication, but we've got some huge potential here.

So, I'm going to keep studying and posting here. My Anycubic Kossel Plus arrives in a few days. This delta printer is very highly regarded in the entry-level range, which is becoming a very, very hot market. One of the reasons I chose Anycubic is their reputation for customer service. All of the cheap printers can come with problems, Anycubic sends out new parts as soon as they hear a complaint (2 weeks from China, but still!). I just wrote to their Aliexpress store about a glass bed I ordered, and they rushed out my order just for writing. I purchased the Kossel from their US store for $188 with a coupon. If I weren't so impatient, I would have ordered it from their Aliexpress store from China for $150. They have similar pricing for the i3 Mega, thier simple cartesian printer that's well-known for reliability and accuracy. I did all this research before plugging in an open box $120 Monoprice mini-pro (now being returned). Even that tiny, pre-assembled printer can make a good set of cans. Considering the potential here, I can't see how any electronics hobbyist can resist.

I've been a professional digital artist, but it's been a couple years. I'm learning the basic tools now, they look a lot easier than Maya! Hopefully, I'll have a 40 mm baffle for my dt770 cup ready by the end of the week. I'll keep you guys posted.

Also, if anybody can recommend any speaker/headphone design software, I would really appreciate it. I haven't studied speaker design in over 20 years, and hate doing all the math.


----------



## frank2908

I guess you are familiar with fusion360, it ise to use for this level.
For making 3d printed headphones, I have a few suggestion:
Petg is better, it has lower resonance frequency and amplitude, you have to design them thicker to make them more rigid. PLA is stiffer but very bad at resonance
Between the baffle and cup its best to use eva foam 1mm tape to stick on baffle, then everything will be sealed when you screw in the cup
Buy a ton of micropore and double sided foam tape. Micropore is similar to the white paper you see on beyerdynamic or other phones.best to seal the holes with them
On baffle and cups, make tones of tuning hole, then seal them with micropore or seal completely. Its better to make your design flexible for tunning
I design my earpads to be attached to baffle by magnet (5mm diameterx 2 mm thick) so tunning and pads swap is quick
You probably need new and different earpads, brainwavz is cheap and good place to start. Don't bother with expensive pads yet


----------



## DrivenKeys

frank2908 said:


> I guess you are familiar with fusion360, it ise to use for this level.
> For making 3d printed headphones, I have a few suggestion:
> Petg is better, it has lower resonance frequency and amplitude, you have to design them thicker to make them more rigid. PLA is stiffer but very bad at resonance
> Between the baffle and cup its best to use eva foam 1mm tape to stick on baffle, then everything will be sealed when you screw in the cup
> ...



Thank you, this is all excellent advice. I'll start with the pla for baffles and prototyping, and upgrade to petg soon. It's pretty amazing the resonant differences. Considering Beyer went abs with the consumer cups, I hoped abs would sound good. I understand the structural differences between printing and injection molding, so I'm not that surprised. I may also experiment with pla dampened with plasti-dip spray inside. It's not dynamat, but I have an extra can just sitting there. I could also smear plasticine clay into the grooved surface...

For a simple cup, have you ever experimented with printing an inside liner layer with wood, then a stiffer outer layer of petg? I bet that bonding them together with silicone adhesive could provide some nice dampening. Best of both worlds? I've found several wood choices out there, I wonder how cork sounds...

Micropore! The medical tape, right? I read about it somewhere on head-fi over a decade ago. I've also had success attenuating certain frequencies with different thicknesses of iron-on backing and embroidery stabilizer. For my semi-open and closed designs, I wanted to make baffles imitating Beyer's, with big, cloth covered openings. When I get adventurous, I may want to print a baffle right onto the cloth. Of course, save the printer; if I must super-glue them post-print, so be it.

I see so many Brainwavs here. In my eyes, they're a bit pricey for what you get, until you go sheep. Then again, they've led this industry. Of course the imitation will be cheaper. I'd never pay 60+ for a pad unless I've finally reached the point of chasing perfection, and 40 is really pushing it. I thought it might be fun to stick with the Aliexpress competition. Time will tell. Pricing isn't that different when you go fenestrated sheep, but pleather, hybrid, and velour all have some great Ali choices for just a few bux. Of the few Ali pads that actually have brand names, I like Defean, but some of the no-names have softer foam.

I love the magnet idea! I had thought to try a hifiman-style twist-ring, but the magnets seem so much easier and more durable.

To make drivers modular, I think I may adapt the metal ring from broken 52mm camera UV filters. They're fairly flat and threaded, and would be very easy to transfer between baffles. I've already grown tired of pulling apart and cleaning glue whenever I pull a driver from a baffle, so this makes sense. The 3D printing plastics are soft enough to be threaded with a spare ring. Heck, with the upgraded board and drivers I just bought, I wonder if I can reliably print those narrow threads...Not getting my hopes up, just wondering.


----------



## frank2908

You can ofcourse make your own pads, which I realised too late after buying almost earpads possible ( stax, audeze, brainwavz, fostex,....) And wanted to make one to my own size. Best material is lambskin leather ofcourse, but I also made one pair from cheap micro fiber towel from decathlon, you can buy from any place have them cheap. Its the same material as the marketing people called " alcantara", comfy, do the job, thin
For filament, you can get away with pla if you print something like the beyer baffle and stick medical tape on it, since there is very little surface area for it to vibrate. For cups, pla is bad.
Composite material like wood, its too soft and doesn't have any benefit , carbon fiber pla give good aesthetic but not stiffer, I forgot how it affected the resonance. i havent haven this but carbon fiber nylon is interesting enough, its strong, fiber filled  and should produce something similar to the luna plastic sennheiser used on their hd800.
I also had some idea to print bronze filled pla directly on the parts, so you have printed ready damping material like dynamat ( since they are heavy, design them like a pattern)
With filled filament, be sure to buy yourself a steel hotend, it wear the nozzle quickly


----------



## DrivenKeys

frank2908 said:


> You can ofcourse make your own pads, which I realised too late after buying almost earpads possible ( stax, audeze, brainwavz, fostex,....) And wanted to make one to my own size. Best material is lambskin leather ofcourse, but I also made one pair from cheap micro fiber towel from decathlon, you can buy from any place have them cheap. Its the same material as the marketing people called " alcantara", comfy, do the job, thin
> For filament, you can get away with pla if you print something like the beyer baffle and stick medical tape on it, since there is very little surface area for it to vibrate. For cups, pla is bad.
> Composite material like wood, its too soft and doesn't have any benefit , carbon fiber pla give good aesthetic but not stiffer, I forgot how it affected the resonance. i havent haven this but carbon fiber nylon is interesting enough, its strong, fiber filled  and should produce something similar to the luna plastic sennheiser used on their hd800.
> I also had some idea to print bronze filled pla directly on the parts, so you have printed ready damping material like dynamat ( since they are heavy, design them like a pattern)
> With filled filament, be sure to buy yourself a steel hotend, it wear the nozzle quickly



Ohhhh, I love 'alcantara', I had no idea I could find it so easily. You've got it, I've been planning to make pads when I have the time. My roomate has an excellent sewing machine, but I don't always have access. I've been wondering what foam choices are around. Memory is great and all, but I wonder if there's anything like the stock Beyer foam available. I really like how it eventually molds to my head. Memory always has the same pressure points, or is so soft you need a lot for proper support.

That carbon fiber nylon looks pretty awesome. Something for a little down the line. I'm getting the printer well setup before trying tougher materials. Anycubic's kit is one of the best $200 printers around, but another hundo makes it super-awesome, especially with Ali prices. 

I've already purchased a SKR V1.3 32 bit board and TMC2209's from BigTreeTech. I know it's not needed to get started, but after looking at the improvements the board gives to Delta printers, I know it will be a first upgrade anyway. I was just researching the best hot end, but want to learn more. What hot end do you like? The E3D V6 is super popular, what else is good?

If you haven't yet, I recommend Teaching Tech on Youtube or Patreon. This guy is amazing at teaching this stuff quickly. He recently posted a video experimenting with non-planar slicing. It's in it's infancy, but is possible to experiment if the nozzle can be long enough (sans attachments. no cooler = no bridging). Another project for down the line, but something to consider.


----------



## frank2908

I just saw the video today haha. He's good
Memory foam is your bet material, its not too hard to find. Other foam I had deteriorated in 4 or 5 years, and its a mess
So far I encountered 3 different memory foam density, so where you buy is important, needless to say, the softer the better. I bought a baby memory foam pillow and to my luck, inside the cover are 2 different foams, one 15mm thick, a bit more open cell, good for flat pads. The other is very soft, tapered, and best for making angled pads. I'm not sure its easy to find. When I was a student, I just send email to those brand online offer " free sample" for their memory foam bed. Ended up with 4 packs of 12x12x5cm blocks


----------



## DrivenKeys

frank2908 said:


> I just saw the video today haha. He's good
> Memory foam is your bet material, its not too hard to find. Other foam I had deteriorated in 4 or 5 years, and its a mess
> So far I encountered 3 different memory foam density, so where you buy is important, needless to say, the softer the better. I bought a baby memory foam pillow and to my luck, inside the cover are 2 different foams, one 15mm thick, a bit more open cell, good for flat pads. The other is very soft, tapered, and best for making angled pads. I'm not sure its easy to find. When I was a student, I just send email to those brand online offer " free sample" for their memory foam bed. Ended up with 4 packs of 12x12x5cm blocks



Lol, that's a great idea to ask for samples. I've lucked out there by accident on other projects, not sure why I never thought of it. I love the baby pillow idea, I'll look into it. It seems like I just haven't found the correct memory foam, perhaps I need to slim the foam near my zygomatic arch. This is where I feel pressure points with firmer memory foam. I still prefer the firmer foam, as it maintains distance from my ear. The softer foam works, but only with a huge donut. Too little, and the pads crumple under the clamp, the speaker contacts my ear, and it's downhill from there. I'll keep trying, I have some Ali angled pads on the way. Every time I'm aware of unusual pressure with memory foam, I'm reminded how supple the Beyer pads had become with a little use. If I can get that comfort for a couple years, it's well worth replacing every once in a while. Heck, many of my headphones haven't lasted that long. 

Alternatively, I may design a cup with the baffle set deeper in. Then I can use softer, slimmer memory foam pads and still avoid ear contact. I'm not getting younger, and these ears just keep moving futher out....


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## NiTROAUDiO

Hey there is there anyone here who can help me print the 3d prints of the m1069 mods I need. I can't afford a printing service anyone who can help me would be greatly appreciated.


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