# Photos: HeadAmp Pico & RSA Predator



## Asr

Let's make this a pic-only thread, because who doesn't love looking at pics? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Post more pics!

 Pico and Predator have approximately same width and height (though the Pico is a teeny bit larger in both dimensions). Pico is about 1/8" shorter in length than Predator.


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## GreatDane

OH! fun toys. I will soon be an owner of one of those = )

 Nice pics.


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## Icarium

Does the predator have pads/feet in those pictures ? ;p


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## Asr

The Predator's feet are indeed installed. They're a bit short. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also find that the Pico and Predator share the same width and height. The Pico just a tad shorter in length as my pics show.


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## MrSlacker

Great pics. Can you please take pics of the backs? and also some pics to compare size. Thanks Steve!


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## Illidan

Wanna see the back of those little box.


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## shaizada

Sweet!

 Take you time, but I really look forward to hearing your impressions of these two fine offerings.

 ~G


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## vcoheda

they look like they use different USB cables.


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## NeObliviscaris

beauty, absolute beauty

 cant wait to hear your impressions, btw, weird request, but got any pics of the predators feet, im intrigued by the small feet!


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## Asr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FeedMeTrance* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_beauty, absolute beauty

 cant wait to hear your impressions, btw, weird request, but got any pics of the predators feet, im intrigued by the small feet!_

 

Predator on left, Pico on right:


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## Illidan

Oh, Pico got a large feet.

 Nice pics.


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## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FeedMeTrance* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_beauty, absolute beauty

 cant wait to hear your impressions, btw, weird request, but got any pics of the predators feet, im intrigued by the small feet!_

 

So, we have a foot fetish here...


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## Edwood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they look like they use different USB cables._

 

They're both Mini USB. The one in the Predator is just not keyed the same as the more common Mini USB like in the Pico. It may make for a looser connection with some Mini USB cables, but it's still compatible with the Mini USB Standard.

 Here's what the different USB connections look like.





 Five common USB connectors (left to right: male micro USB, male mini USB B-type, male B-type, female A-type, male A-type) 

 -Ed


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## d-cee

great pics! looking forward to the review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 there will be a review right... ?


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## vcoheda

never knew the world of USB was so complex.


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## IPodPJ

Ed,
 You forgot the Apple keyboard USB cables. They are a 6th type.


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## Amati

Now post pics of their circuitry, for full measure.


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## Edwood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ed,
 You forgot the Apple keyboard USB cables. They are a 6th type. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Huh? How are they different, other than being encased in white plastic?


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## milkpowder

Thanks for the superb pictures. The glossy paint job on the Pico looks much nicer than the brushed/anodised Predator. The Pico also has a nicer knob but the Predator's arse is more attractive. I'm not a great fan of the Pico's squarish power jack. And since we're on the topic of looks, I quite like the Tomahawk's smaller feet.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Amati* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now post pics of their circuitry, for full measure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes! That would be great.


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## krmathis

Stunning pictures! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ...of some great looking portable amplifiers..


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## basman

Hey ASR, thanks for sharing those lovely HEADPORN!


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## Dual

Sweet pics. What I really want to see is the guts of theses two units.


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milkpowder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not a great fan of the Pico's squarish power jack._

 

It lessens the chance of the DC plug shorting to the case so there's a good reason to use it. This can happen with plugs that carry the + on the center pin (as both of these do). It looks like Ray provided good clearance around his jack so I doubt it'll be a problem with the Predator but I've had that issue with other portables before that used a the round jack/round hole setup.


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## dmk005

If you include the rear screws which protrude past the end of the Pico case is it still shorter than the Predator? I prefer the back of the Predator too with the flat phillips screws with zero protrusion but do feel the Pico paint job is a nicer finish. I wonder, however, what will wear better over time. My 8 month old anodized green Tomahawk still looks brand new.


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## Drag0n

Ok, its nice for everyone to have eye-gasms over the amps.....but i want to know which amp provides the biggest ear-gasm???!!!

 Dac to dac,and amp to amp.....whats the difference in sound????

 Theyre both cute and pretty and tiny and so similiar in layout etc.

 You know they were made for direct competition,because the chances of two main amp makers making very similar products at the same time is like the chances of throwing 1000 golf balls on your front lawn and having it spell "Head-Fi" !!!

 So i say,"Let the competition begin!!!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, I believe Rays amp is LifeTime Gauranteed. How long is Justins amp Gauranteed for?

 Reviews!!!


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## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drag0n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, I believe Rays amp is LifeTime Gauranteed. How long is Justins amp Gauranteed for?_

 

3 years.


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## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It lessens the chance of the DC plug shorting to the case so there's a good reason to use it. This can happen with plugs that carry the + on the center pin (as both of these do). It looks like Ray provided good clearance around his jack so I doubt it'll be a problem with the Predator but I've had that issue with other portables before that used a the round jack/round hole setup._

 

Could you be thinking about the Supermacro IV with its round hole plug? I had one once but Dr. Xin was gracious enough to return my money. 

 The Xin Reference (beta) that I have sounds beautiful and with it's battery power never has that issue.


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## kugino

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OptionTrader* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3 years._

 

but i'm sure if anything ever went wrong with your pico after three years justin would still service it...


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## tennisplyr3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Illidan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, Pico got a large feet.

 Nice pics._

 

you know what they say about amps with big feet though, don't you?


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## justin w.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dmk005* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you include the rear screws which protrude past the end of the Pico case is it still shorter than the Predator? I prefer the back of the Predator too with the flat phillips screws with zero protrusion but do feel the Pico paint job is a nicer finish. I wonder, however, what will wear better over time. My 8 month old anodized green Tomahawk still looks brand new._

 

The Pico enclosure is anodized, not painted

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drag0n* 
_How long is Justins amp Gauranteed for?_

 

3 years including the battery, which is user replaceable


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## The_Duke_Of_Eli

Thanks for the comparison photos.

 Now we're gonna need some impressions....


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## antonyfirst

Really some beautiful **** here!


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## Podster

Nice shots ASR, I'm also in favor of Ray's recessed screws as opposed to the surface stops 

 So the Pico only has a shiney plastic faceplate? Not that I think that's bad especially if it's that impact stuff like Pods and Nenten DS's (good dtuff Maynard:-0) 

 Both are very nice looking units for sure so I guess it is down to the sound and I'll be fit as a pound


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## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Podster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the Pico only has a shiney plastic faceplate?_

 

No. It's anodized aluminum.


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## Icarium

The pico's chassis is all metal and all glossy finish.


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## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Icarium* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The pico's chassis is all metal and all glossy finish._

 

Beautiful, isn't it? I can't wait until mine arrives.


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## warubozu

Oh man, the Pico's piano black finish is to die for. Thanks for sharing and it's getting very hard for me to reisist pulling the trigger for one.


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## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drag0n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, I believe Rays amp is LifeTime Gauranteed. How long is Justins amp Gauranteed for?_

 

as stated 3 years, which in this hobby considering how much turnover there is with gear is almost equivalent to a lifetime. besides, in 3 years whether your pico still operates without incident or not is irrelevant b/c there will be some new product on the market which you will want to own or prefer over it.


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## OptionTrader

The duration of these warranties is really the least of my concerns. As with Ray, Justin's reputation for standing behind his products should alleviate any concerns for out-of-warranty repairs.


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## NeObliviscaris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Predator on left, Pico on right:




_

 

i want those feet for my tomahawk! where to buy frm!


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## smeggy

I picked up a set of rubber feet just like those at a Fred Myer supermarket in the too section a while back.


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## Asr

Did someone say they wanted pics of the guts? Here ya go:

*HeadAmp Pico*





















*RSA Predator*


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## NeObliviscaris

omg its nekked, is that legal here, wow so droool worthy!


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## d-cee

do some of the chips on the pico have black squares covering them, or did you photoshop those in


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## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do some of the chips on the pico have black squares covering them, or did you photoshop those in_

 

Huh...at first I thought you were going nuts (who isn't these days?), but now I see what you mean. Ray's signature red covering is realistically evident on the Predator, but the Pico just looks like a perfectly straight black square with no depth or lighting to it. Perhaps nobody is sure if there is a green light to let the Pico bare all?


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## justin w.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Huh...at first I thought you were going nuts (who isn't these days?), but now I see what you mean. Ray's signature red covering is realistically evident on the Predator, but the Pico just looks like a perfectly straight black square with no depth or lighting to it. Perhaps nobody is sure if there is a green light to let the Pico bare all? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

i have no problem if he shows the full circuit board, i didn't ask him to cover it up


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## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Huh...at first I thought you were going nuts (who isn't these days?), but now I see what you mean. Ray's signature red covering is realistically evident on the Predator, but the Pico just looks like a perfectly straight black square with no depth or lighting to it. Perhaps nobody is sure if there is a green light to let the Pico bare all? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have no problem if he shows the full circuit board, i didn't ask him to cover it up_

 

yeah I know ray's been doing it for a while, but didn't know if justin was too or it was requested by Justin to cover them, but that's clarified now.


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## Asr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do some of the chips on the pico have black squares covering them, or did you photoshop those in_

 

I added those in, for completely personal reasons.


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## TzeYang

, so you cant reveal the blackened opamp ??

 It'll be nice to see how manufacturers interpret the "sound demand" though.

 Times like these, i can only slap myself for diving into DIY, wasting piles of cash instead of buying beautiful amps like these, and never have to think about anything else.


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## basman

How about those Caps?

 Predator: Nichicon 15000uF

 Pico: ????

 Thanks!


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## justin w.

The Pico capacitor you see is 1000uF, but it's purpose is probably different. It stays charged and absorbs turn-on surge that comes from the headphone amp. This prevents the li-ion charger from being fooled into thinking that the surge current from turning the amp on is an empty battery that needs to be filled. It really isn't of any use as a power supply capacitor, where it would just lower battery impedance. The impedance of a li-ion battery is so low the capacitor will do nothing to help. Might filter a little AC noise when the DC adapter is plugged in, but thats about it


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## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I added those in, for completely personal reasons._

 

I respect your decision. Do Justin's comments change anything though?


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## basman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Pico capacitor you see is 1000uF, but it's purpose is probably different. It stays charged and absorbs turn-on surge that comes from the headphone amp. This prevents the li-ion charger from being fooled into thinking that the surge current from turning the amp on is an empty battery that needs to be filled. It really isn't of any use as a power supply capacitor, where it would just lower battery impedance. The impedance of a li-ion battery is so low the capacitor will do nothing to help. Might filter a little AC noise when the DC adapter is plugged in, but thats about it_

 

Thanks Justin for the valuable information.


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## Filburt

Are those X7R caps on the output of the Predator's DAC board?


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Pico capacitor you see is 1000uF, but it's purpose is probably different. It stays charged and absorbs turn-on surge that comes from the headphone amp. This prevents the li-ion charger from being fooled into thinking that the surge current from turning the amp on is an empty battery that needs to be filled. It really isn't of any use as a power supply capacitor, where it would just lower battery impedance. The impedance of a li-ion battery is so low the capacitor will do nothing to help. Might filter a little AC noise when the DC adapter is plugged in, but thats about it_

 

So the Pico relies on the battery, which is a capacitor, for all of its supply and does not use a larger cap in the PS? Interesting. If the Pico runs off of the charger, after the battery is charged, what capacitive reserve is there to lower the resistance for the current supply to the components?


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## dap_pad

Wow... I wish I lived near you to see and hear them in person... you are so lucky!!! They look awesome btw and your pictures are done quite well!


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## Edwood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Pico capacitor you see is 1000uF, but it's purpose is probably different. It stays charged and absorbs turn-on surge that comes from the headphone amp. This prevents the li-ion charger from being fooled into thinking that the surge current from turning the amp on is an empty battery that needs to be filled. It really isn't of any use as a power supply capacitor, where it would just lower battery impedance. *The impedance of a li-ion battery is so low the capacitor will do nothing to help. *Might filter a little AC noise when the DC adapter is plugged in, but thats about it_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the Pico relies on the battery, which is a capacitor, for all of its supply and does not use a larger cap in the PS? Interesting. If the Pico runs off of the charger, after the battery is charged, what capacitive reserve is there to lower the resistance for the current supply to the components?_

 

Read a little closer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Ed


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## akwok

From asr's photos, the Predator's insides look a bit empty in comparison...


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Edwood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Read a little closer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Ed_

 

I did. I am wondering about using it while on the ac adapter as the battery is out of the circuit, from what I understand, once it is charged.


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## Asr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TzeYang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





, so you cant reveal the blackened opamp ??_

 

Well _I_ won't, but that doesn't mean one of the other Pico owners can't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I respect your decision. Do Justin's comments change anything though?_

 

Nope. I'd prefer to keep the pics as-is, again for completely personal reasons. But like I said, there are plenty of other Pico owners.


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## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *akwok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From asr's photos, the Predator's insides look a bit empty in comparison..._

 

So does the interior of RWA's Signature amp which is also highly regarded. Your point is?


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## SR-71Panorama

The pico innards remind me of the Lavry. (This is a good thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


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## jjhatfield

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OptionTrader* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So does the interior of RWA's Signature amp which is also highly regarded. Your point is?_

 

the difference being the Predator is a portable amp while the Sig is a full size home amp.


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## OptionTrader

What's that got to do with how much is crammed in a given amount of space? You could perform the same comparison of "full sized" home amps similarly sized as the Sig and also see some examples of designs that do not have a high parts count. Again, it really doesn't mean a thing. It's all about implementation and, in the end, how it sounds to your ears.


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## kugino

not pics of the innards of the two amps being discussed above, but here is my sig30 being fed by the dac of the pico, also being used as a preamp. i'm loving the sound w/this combo and my k1000:


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## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kugino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not pics of the innards of the two amps being discussed above, but here is my sig30 being fed by the dac of the pico, also being used as a preamp. i'm loving the sound w/this combo and my k1000:_

 

Nice!


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## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *akwok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From asr's photos, the Predator's insides look a bit empty in comparison..._

 

I'm glad you brought this up as I was going to ask ASR if the Pred has 2 opposing PCB's as it looks in the pictures. Might be a reason the Pico PCB looks so full?


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## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Podster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm glad you brought this up as I was going to ask ASR if the Pred has 2 opposing PCB's as it looks in the pictures. Might be a reason the Pico PCB looks so full?_

 

The Predator does have 2 PCBs.


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## grawk

As does the pico.


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did someone say they wanted pics of the guts? Here ya go:

*HeadAmp Pico*





















*RSA Predator*









_

 

Does anyone know what chip Predator DAC uses?
 I see wm8740 stamped on the Pico's as well as AD1896 upsampling converter, but Predator's is painted over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What's the spec on this thing?


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## MrSlacker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know what chip Predator DAC uses?
 I see wm8740 stamped on the Pico's as well as AD1896 upsampling converter, but Predator's is painted over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What's the spec on this thing?_

 

RSA sands off and then paints over chips in all of his amps. Sadly this is the case with Predator as well. I tried to figure out on mine, but even after removing paint, markings was sanded off. However, after asking some experts, it looks to be PCM2704. It is the same DAC chip used in almost every USB DAC/amp.


 btw, nice cheburashka


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## jma790

Wow!, that cap in the Predator is huge!
 I want to know about the DAC too; I don't think it's the 2704... that's a really common one, and the Predator as a DAC is highly regarded...


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## Icarium

I've also heard that it's the PCM2704


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jma790* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and the Predator as a DAC is highly regarded..._

 

Depending on where your baseline is.


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## jma790

I just wish to have a Predator to actually be able to talk about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (But I like the look of the Pico more!)


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## jma790

16 bit Delta Sigma Stereo for the Predator? What's that?


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## unknown32

Hey ASR, thanks for sharing those lovely HEADPORN!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Amp on amp action:

 I'm Sorry! I kid I Kid!.

 Waiting for my pico patiently


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## jma790

I love the looks of both amps. They are so cute. =D


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## LFC_SL

I know I'm quoting an old post...
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FeedMeTrance* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i want those feet for my tomahawk! where to buy frm!_

 

But I got my Tomahawk in 2007 and feet were included in the packaging as an optional install...


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## ZoNtO

So hott, want to touch the heiney!


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## screamb

here's a pic of my predator.. =)
 a really great amp!


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## Andrew_WOT

If it was a beauty contest...


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jma790* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love the looks of both amps. They are so cute. =D_

 

Definitely cute. I can almost say those Pico/Predator photos are mine, since I own Pico #11 from the pics, and my predator #28 is almost half of the one in the photos (too bad the one in the photos isn't #56).


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## LFC_SL

Dammit Andrew 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I naturally incline towards black as it is easy to match components 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Saying that I have ordered a new 16GB Nano 4G red lol

 But I am seeing silver in a new light. I saw someone post pics of the RSA Apache in silver and it was _haut_


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## DarKu

Predator uses WM8740 too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 RMAA tests never lie!


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## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Predator uses WM8740 too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 RMAA tests never lie!_

 

Are you kidding?


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## DarKu

ofcourse not


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## zmorris

Here's what I was able to identify on the Predator by Googling and looking at the PCBs:

 SW1 - Illuminated On/Off Switch: NKK G12JVC-RO
 SW2 - Input USB Switch: NKK G22AV
 SW3 - High/Lo/Med Gain Switch: NKK G23AV-RO 
 V1: ALPS RK097/RK098 Series 50K Potentiometer (Min Volume: 50K ohm, Max Volume: 25K ohm)
 BAT: Apple iPod 3G Replacement Battery 850 mAh (There are higher capacity batteries available with identical size, which may extend the battery life.) 
 R1-R17 SMD Resistors: Vishay/Dale brand
 C1 - Electrolytic Capacitor: Panasonic ECA-0JM153 15000UF 6.3V AL LYTIC RADIAL (datasheet)
 C2-C10 SMD Capacitors: Panasonic brand
 U1 - USB DAC: TI PCM2704 (The writing on the chip is not scratched off, just painted over, so it's easily identifiable.)
 IC1 & IC2 - Op-Amps: Unknown, but possibly AD8397

 There is nothing on the PCBs in between the battery and six metal rod supports.


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## user123456

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did someone say they wanted pics of the guts? Here ya go:

*RSA Predator*









_

 



 Why does Ray hide what chips are being used? It's akin to Ferrari encasing their engine in an impenetrable black box and declining to give details about it. That's being a bit deceptive to current and potential customers, don't you think? For someone who's paying $475 + shipping for a product that, as far as I can see from the pictures, are only worth less than $100 in parts, they should have every right to know the *full* specifications.


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## dazzer1975

Maybe he wants to remove the bias from people, the one which pre-empts the sound quality by being aware of the sum of its parts and would rather people hear the amp to discover it sounds greater than the sum of its parts?


 I have no idea why he does it, and I don't necessarily agree with it, but from what people say about RSA, the amps sound greater than $100 worth of parts, so allowing people the opportunity to hear without preconceptions could be it?


 I pretty much doubt that explanation as I am cynical and jaded by nature, but hey, its sort of plausible and makes for a nice explanation.


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## user123456

Deliberately hiding information about the main components would add more of a negative bias towards this amp in my opinion. There has to be some transparency with regards to this essential information. Do bottled water companies hide the source of their water? No, it's on their labels. Some (e.g., Aquafina, Dasani) source their water from local tap reserves, not from the Alps, but that doesn't deter people from buying their product. 

 Lengthy descriptive paragraphs are written in the product description about the military grade board and types of resistors used, but when it comes to the meat and potatoes of the amp dac -- the op-amp and dac chips -- nothing is mentioned. I find this highly unusual, as other amp makers either provide this information or don't deliberately hide what's being used internally.


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## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *user123456* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Deliberately hiding information about the main components would add more of a negative bias towards this amp in my opinion. There has to be some transparency with regards to this essential information. Do bottled water companies hide the source of their water? No, it's on their labels. Some (e.g., Aquafina, Dasani) source their water from local tap reserves, not from the Alps, but that doesn't deter people from buying their product. 

 Lengthy descriptive paragraphs are written in the product description about the military grade board and types of resistors used, but when it comes to the meat and potatoes of the amp dac -- the op-amp and dac chips -- nothing is mentioned. I find this highly unusual, as other amp makers either provide this information or don't deliberately hide what's being used internally._

 


 We reserve the right for not disclosing the components used in our amps.
 If it offends you please do not buy it.
 Calling it deceptive in your post # 89 is a little harsh.
 Many manufacturers in the electronic world including some of the best in military brds manufacturing that I worked with or those made by other firms do that. Some buy the chips & remove the chip # & install their own part # on it. ARE THEY DECEPTIVE????
 Ray Samuels


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *user123456* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Deliberately hiding information about the main components would add more of a negative bias towards this amp in my opinion. There has to be some transparency with regards to this essential information. Do bottled water companies hide the source of their water? No, it's on their labels. Some (e.g., Aquafina, Dasani) source their water from local tap reserves, not from the Alps, but that doesn't deter people from buying their product. 

 Lengthy descriptive paragraphs are written in the product description about the military grade board and types of resistors used, but when it comes to the meat and potatoes of the amp dac -- the op-amp and dac chips -- nothing is mentioned. I find this highly unusual, as other amp makers either provide this information or don't deliberately hide what's being used internally._

 

You aren't going to drink an amp. There is a reason for nutritional supplements, i.e. food, to list what ingredients are. Just like the milk products in China, you want to know what you are ingesting. A manufacture of an audio or other electronic device has no obligation to disclose what parts they are using unless they are considered to be a health hazard, which is not the case here. Are you buying a product to listen to or deconstruct? I was in the military and there are pieces of electronics that were not divulged unless you had clearance but that didn't keep the piece of equipment from working as it was supposed to. Why so serious. :^)


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## williamchc

Personally speaking, not disclosing some components used in the amps is a good idea. This can protect the amp manufacturer from being cloned by some companies illegally(esp those in China)to a certain extent. Also, the manufacturer has the rights to hide some secrets, right?
 As an engineer, products being cloned without permission by others will greatly discourage the original creator from creating new products.


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## jamato8

Besides being a nurse I am also a photographer. People most always watermark there images when placed on the web so they can't be easily copied. This does cover part of the image but most of the time you still get to view the image. It is their right to do so. Buying the image does not mean you buy the right to the original digital file or negative unless the the originator chooses to give you that right and normally this will entail a considerably higher fee.


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## williamchc

Well, Let me return to the thread and show the picture~


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## user123456

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We reserve the right for not disclosing the components used in our amps._

 

Okay, you can give yourself that right, but it would be a disservice to anyone looking to buy your products by withholding this information. I see this scenario similar to someone wanting to buy a computer from the Home Shopping Network but HSN hasn't provided any specific details (cpu speed, ram speed and size, etc.) to the viewer; the customer can only rely on the people who call in saying that it's "super fast and great," to make an informed decision. That isn't right.

 I still haven't found the reason why you're doing this, though? This amp can't be compared to some highly classified military device or anything popular or lucrative enough to be cloned by other manufacturers, because it isn't. Name one other audio maker that deliberately wipes out or rebrands critical chips in their product. As far as I know, there are none.


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## jude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *user123456* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_....This amp can't be compared to....anything popular or lucrative enough to be cloned by other manufacturers, because it isn't...._

 

Actually, I've deleted posts in the past linking to a particular website that specializes in selling clone kits of a bunch of boutique audio gear (even going so far as to unabashedly state which pieces they're cloning). Headphone audio is becoming increasingly popular as an audiophile pursuit. Things like the Pico and Predator are likely selling in quantities of hundreds, and may one day reach into the thousands (I have no exact figures, but am estimating based on what I've observed). There's enough incentive to clone earphones, headphones, and, yes, to sell to our market, even headphone amps (it _has _happened here, at least once in a very public way, after a manufacturer discovered his identical circuitry being used in another's commercial offering).

 While some might argue or be aggravated by the choice of manufacturers to pot ciruits, or obscure certain parts by other means, that's their prerogative. I believe Ray Samuels Audio posts photos of the insides of their amps with these obscured chips on their very own website, and in their ads here. It doesn't bother me, and I've purchased a few Ray Samuels Audio products myself, based on only on how they performed to my ears. I recently also picked up a Luxman P-1--I have no idea what the inside of my Luxman P-1 looks like (or what's in it), and, like the other audio gear I own, bought it based on what I heard. Of course, this might bother some, and those it does bother can choose not to buy certain products subject to the practice.

 That being said, let's get the thread back on topic. As the original poster stated: Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let's make this a pic-only thread, because who doesn't love looking at pics? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Post more pics!..._


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## kimura

both are looks good, same size ahhh?


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## robinclp

yay i just paid for an rsa predator...

 how long do you guys think it will take for it to get shipped to Canada?


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## kimura

basically, it take 8 business days


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## robinclp

can't wait....


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## Sinclair

more pics
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Click to enlarge.
 ---
 Pico



 1024*768 (143.2KB)

 Pico - Li-Ion Battery



 1280*1024 (222.2KB)

 Predator



 800*600 (113.8KB)

 SR-71A



 1200*800 (188.3KB)

 ---
 Pico - 120g



 600*800 (96.6KB)

 Predator - 98g



 600*800 (97.4KB)

 SR-71A - 206g



 800*800 (103.8KB)

 ---
 Tomahawk, Pico, Predator

 Top



 1500*750 (240.7KB)

 Front



 1280*320 (112.2KB)

 Rear



 1280*320 (73.5KB)

 ---
 SR-71A, Hornet, Predator, Tomahawk

 Front



 1200*200 (78.4KB)

 Rear



 1200*200 (54.0KB)

 ---
 PRII-LE, SR-71A, Hornet, Tomahawk

 Top



 480*960 (121.6KB)

 Front



 1152*576 (122.4KB)


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## Lil' Knight

wow
 nice collection of portable amps you have, Sinclair


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## jma790

I wonder why those small amps are so cute...


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## cck5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let's make this a pic-only thread, because who doesn't love looking at pics? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Post more pics!

 Pico and Predator have approximately same width and height (though the Pico is a teeny bit larger in both dimensions). Pico is about 1/8" shorter in length than Predator.





























_

 

id kill for either of those


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## estreeter

cck5, was that really necessary ? Please bear in mind that many browse the forum with small laptops/netbooks, and its all bandwidth that someone eventually has to pay for. I can think of no reason why you would quote to entire OP.


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## cck5

sorry, i was pretty sure everyone has a decent internet speed these days. and eye candy drove me crazy


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## RockinCannoisseur

oh how i than kyou for starting this thread, i have problems judging amp sizes from pics on line, and i have to see side by side something i am farmiliar with. this truly helps, i have the predator and i thought the pico was alot bigger,, wow almost same size, i cant believe it

 3 cheers 4 U!

 anyone got a pico slim next to any of these fine amps?
 slim vs pico? are they the same when usb powered only? ive been told the pico has more power but this may be wall wart or batt only? thanks


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## RockinCannoisseur

Rsa predator next to audio technica ha25d amp/dac- used as standalone dac


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## RockinCannoisseur

Rsa predator next to Triad audio Lisa III


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## muzic4life

After seeing all these photos..i can't wait my predator and 71a to arrived


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