# Topping A90 Discrete aka A90D



## carlcamper (Aug 29, 2022)

Product Pages:
https://www.topping.audio/productinfo/852442.html


https://apos.audio/products/topping-a90-headphone-amp?variant=42910474371308

Announcement:
https://www.facebook.com/topping2008/photos/a.2495605267116984/5590415587635921/

Measurement:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...90-discrete-review-headphone-amp-preamp.35114

Firmware Updates:
V2.4 - https://www.topping.audio/newsinfo/686950.html (no need to update to V2.3 first)
V2.3 - https://www.topping.audio/newsinfo/663543.html

Youtube Reviews:



Ordered one, can't wait!

Edit: Pic of my unit:


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## Arniesb

Great looking and amazing specs.
I think Wolume control will improve its only weakness in small soundstage...
This gonna be massive Winner.


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## XLR2XLR

I placed an order right after the A90D became available. 
I'm also waiting for a D90LE and U90 – want to hear how these units work together.


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## BowWazoo

Hopefully Topping has learned from the design flaws of the A90, and doesn't build in such aggressive DC-protection again, which will make the device unusable, for people who like to listen very loud, and have headphones that need a lot of power...


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## Gavin C4 (Jun 22, 2022)

I guess this amp produce really nice sine waves. I enjoy listening to perfectly measured sine waves. Very nice and clean mono tone. I wonder how much better are the sound of sine waves produced by the A90 discrete compared to my Original A90 that is collecting dust on the shelf.


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## Marlowe (Jun 22, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> I guess this amp produce really nice sine waves. I enjoy listening to perfectly measured sine waves rather than music. Very nice and clean mono tone. I wonder how much better are the sound of sine waves produced by the A90 discrete compared to my Original A90 that is collecting dust on the shelf.


Then you must be excited that this amp just got the objectivist stamp of approval from Amir at ASR. (It overcame his fears that Topping built a discrete amp "just to appease audiophiles." What a fella.) I may buy one anyway.


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## Arniesb

Gavin C4 said:


> I guess this amp produce really nice sine waves. I enjoy listening to perfectly measured sine waves rather than music. Very nice and clean mono tone. I wonder how much better are the sound of sine waves produced by the A90 discrete compared to my Original A90 that is collecting dust on the shelf.


Nice delusions. Just buy whatever toy that is popular today and be the part of crowd!
Also, must flex with your expensive gear cause expensive gear= better enginnering!
Say Whatever that makes you sleep well at night.


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## Gavin C4

How much better would 119 SINAD (THD+N) from a A90 Discrete sound better than my Topping A90 with 120 SINAD (THD+N)? Would it have any audible difference? Hope someone could do a side by side comparison with matching volume. Thanks


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## enricoclaudio

I'm also switching from A90 to A90D. I got approved to return my A90 for store credit from Headphones.com as I'm still within the 365 days return window. Just waiting for the A90D to be in stock. They are already taking pre orders but I don't want to be without headphone amp for 2 or 3 weeks.


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## ezduzit2500 (Jun 27, 2022)

Gavin C4 said:


> I guess this amp produce really nice sine waves. I enjoy listening to perfectly measured sine waves. Very nice and clean mono tone. I wonder how much better are the sound of sine waves produced by the A90 discrete compared to my Original A90 that is collecting dust on the shelf.


If I could downvote this post I would (it's not personal, it's the snark). For me, the main drawbacks of the original were it's _sterile _sound quality, it's flat-staging from the IC opamp based topology, and the "loose and mushy" volume pot. I'm quite glad that they are trying to upgrade the original by going discrete. Though I doubt I'll buy one (I bought a great balanced Class A discrete amp that replaced the original), I'm glad that others will be able to benefit from an improved model.


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## Gavin C4 (Jun 27, 2022)

ezduzit2500 said:


> If I could downvote this post I would (it's not personal, it's the snark). For me, the main drawbacks of the original were it's _sterile _sound quality, it's flat-staging from the IC opamp based topology, and the "loose and mushy" volume pot. I'm quite glad that they are trying to upgrade the original by going discrete. Though I doubt I'll buy one (I bought a great balanced Class A discrete amp that replaced the original), I'm glad that others will be able to benefit from an improved model.



I am really happy to buy any new amp including the A90 discrete, I can purchase it in a heartbeat without a sweat. But how much an upgrade from the original A90 that measures perfectly and even better than the A90 Discrete? Topping amps cost like nothing compared to what I own, could easily buy it blinded.


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## TheMiddleSky

Gavin C4 said:


> But how much an upgrade from the original A90 that measures perfectly and even better than the A90 Discrete?


Definitely sound quality we heard not 100% related to the measurement, especially when the measurement results between them are almost the same.

All topping amp measure well, similar to each other, yet, they all sound different.

I'm not fans of original A90, but like Singxer so much. A90 Discrete could be the real champ, but time will tell.


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## Gavin C4 (Jun 27, 2022)

But DMS said, basically the entire Topping Amp lineup sounded the same. All of them measure perfectly and sounded the same and therefore tired of reviewing them because whichever one DMS pickup, they sounded the same. Would it be the same case for the Topping A90 Discrete?


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## Gavin C4 (Jun 27, 2022)

I am a legit owner of Topping's gears and other well-measureing amps. Really would like to know, what improvements have been made to the Topping A90 Discrete. Or is it a simple bi-annual refresh in the lineup for the sake of releasing a product as a product cycle of the original A90 ended?


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## escalibur

Gavin C4 said:


> But DMS said, basically the entire Topping Amp lineup sounded the same. All of them measure perfectly and sounded the same and therefore tired of reviewing them because whichever one DMS pickup, they sounded the same. Would it be the same case for the Topping A90 Discrete?



Because they do sound the same. The same thing has been said by Topping's designer who designed all their latest amps. L30 sounds 100% the same as the A90 SE.


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## ericx85 (Jun 27, 2022)

Toppings prices differ mainly due to the features the different amps/dacs have. They feel they can deliver a 100% dead neutral/this is what the pure signal sounds like experience with all their stuff. If pure numbers is what you're after, then I believe the Singxer SA-1 is still technically better.  Granted while the a90 and SA-1 measure nearly exactly the same, a large number of people feel they sound different.


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## ezduzit2500

Gavin C4 said:


> I am really happy to buy any new amp including the A90 discrete, I can purchase it in a heartbeat without a sweat. But how much an upgrade from the original A90 that measures perfectly and even better than the A90 Discrete?a


The THX/IC vs Discrete divide - is a _gulf_, IMO. I owned/had the original A90 and the Monolith '887 side by side (I liked the '887 better - more linear and more open treble) and quickly sent them _both _back after comparing them to my resistor bypassed Emotiva A-100 and Schiit Magni 3+ (with HFM Arya v2's and Anandas). The discrete topology Emotiva - even the lowly Magni - had better spatial performance (ie: 3D, esp. _depth_) and more naturalness/liveliness compared to both the opamp based amps - plus they were both less expensive (Emo $150 used, Magni ~$120 after tax). I then bought a used Gustard H20 discrete Class A amp ($475) that outclassed all of them in tone/timbre, naturalness, 3 dimensionality, and punch/bass dynamics. Of course, they all measure in a straight line from 20hz to 20khz, and below and above that. The A90 Discrete may well be an improvement from the _flat/shallow _staged, slight midbass bloomed, closed-in trebled, and quite _sterile sounding _original A90....I'd try one myself if I was shopping for an amp.


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## ezduzit2500

escalibur said:


> Because they do sound the same. The same thing has been said by Topping's designer who designed all their latest amps. L30 sounds 100% the same as the A90 SE.


All those amps sound the same because they have the same topology and use the same parts (same IC based topologies, same or similar NFCA modules, same opamps). They all fail in spatial recreation compared to _most _discrete amps of the same prices or even of lower prices. Of course, IMO.


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## Arniesb

ezduzit2500 said:


> All those amps sound the same because they have the same topology and use the same parts (same IC based topologies, same or similar NFCA modules, same opamps). They all fail in spatial recreation compared to _most _discrete amps of the same prices or even of lower prices. Of course, IMO.


There is 0 proof that Discrete designs have better soundstage.
Crosstalk and wolume control makes the difference when it comes to soundstage.
Lots of discrete amps i saw have more space between channels thus better crosstalk.


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## MacMan31

Would be nice to see how this compares to other amps like the Jot 2 or the SingXer SA-1. I have not had a Topping amp in quite a long time. I think the last I had was a DX7 pro.


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## ezduzit2500

Arniesb said:


> There is 0 proof that Discrete designs have better soundstage.
> Crosstalk and wolume control makes the difference when it comes to soundstage.
> Lots of discrete amps i saw have more space between channels thus better crosstalk.


That's the view from a purely objectivist/measurements standpoint, but all things aren't accounted for in audio statistics. I made my previous statement via my own experiences listening to and doing face to face comparisons of different amps with different topologies: the original A90, Monolith '887, Emotiva A-100, Schiit Magni 3+, Schiit Magnius, and Gustard H20 with OEM and upgraded discrete opamps. I had them all at the same time - each discrete amp outperformed all of the IC based amps in naturalness, timbre, and spatial 3D recreation - especially depth of field. I know the difference and will always choose a discrete amp for my money - but you do you though....


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## HONEYBOY (Jun 28, 2022)

Just got the A90 Discrete and I have to say it's doing a stellar job with the Sennheiser HD6XX. I don't think I've heard them sound any better. Clears up the vocals really nicely with excellent bass. This is also super silent with my IEMs: IER-Z1R, U12T and the IE900. Nice looking unit too.


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## TheMiddleSky

escalibur said:


> Because they do sound the same. The same thing has been said by Topping's designer who designed all their latest amps. L30 sounds 100% the same as the A90 SE.


Not really. A30 Pro clearly has different sound compared to A90 with either Balance/SE output. 

I don't think it's possible for a person to say they sound exactly the same in side by side comparison. A30 Pro is noticeably warmer, thicker, and narrower with punchier bass character. Yet, both amp measured really well. Hard for graph to tell the differences I guess.


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## TheMiddleSky

HONEYBOY said:


> Just got the A90 Discrete and I have to say it's doing a stellar job with the Sennheiser HD6XX. I don't think I've heard them sound any better. Clears up the vocals really nicely with excellent bass. This is also super silent with my IEMs: IER-Z1R, U12T and the IE900. Nice looking unit too.



Comparison with Ferrum stack would be much appreciated it


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## enricoclaudio

HONEYBOY said:


> Just got the A90 Discrete and I have to say it's doing a stellar job with the Sennheiser HD6XX. I don't think I've heard them sound any better. Clears up the vocals really nicely with excellent bass. This is also super silent with my IEMs: IER-Z1R, U12T and the IE900. Nice looking unit too.


I ordered mine in black


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## HONEYBOY (Jun 28, 2022)

TheMiddleSky said:


> Comparison with Ferrum stack would be much appreciated it


Both are relatively new. I've had the Ferrum stack for less than a week, probably less than 10 hours on it, and the A90 Discrete is well under 2 hours. Off the bat they are both great. I see no major issues with the Topping despite its price point. Haven't even tested the balanced outputs, but single ended the Ferrum seems to have a slightly more organic nature to it. The A90 D simply gets out of the way and play the music in an uncolored manner. Both have excellent bass and extension. The A90 D probably has more air up top, and so far even both have excellent clarity with the Ferrum perhaps having the blacker background. These are early thoughts. My general sense is that you'd want to pair the A90 D with warm headphones and the Ferrum with bright headphones. This isn't to say one is bright and the other one dark though. They appear to be different takes on neutrality.


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## TheMiddleSky (Jun 29, 2022)

HONEYBOY said:


> Both are relatively new. I've had the Ferrum stack for less than a week, probably less than 10 hours on it, and the A90 Discrete is well under 2 hours. Off the bat they are both great. I see no major issues with the Topping despite its price point. Haven't even tested the balanced outputs, but single ended the Ferrum seems to have a slightly more organic nature to it. The A90 D simply gets out of the way and play the music in an uncolored manner. Both have excellent bass and extension. The A90 D probably has more air up top, and so far even both have excellent clarity with the Ferrum perhaps having the blacker background. These are early thoughts. My general sense is that you'd want to pair the A90 D with warm headphones and the Ferrum with bright headphones. This isn't to say one is bright and the other one dark though. They appear to be different takes on neutrality.


Thanks for the initial impression. I'm familiar with Ferrum stacks and A90, so I think I can imagine a bit sound of A90d based on your description.

Biggest question would be whether I need A90d to replace Singxer or not.


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## XERO1 (Jun 29, 2022)

HONEYBOY said:


> Both are relatively new. I've had the Ferrum stack for less than a week, probably less than 10 hours on it, and the A90 Discrete is well under 2 hours. Off the bat they are both great. I see no major issues with the Topping despite its price point. Haven't even tested the balanced outputs, but single ended the Ferrum seems to have a slightly more organic nature to it. The A90 D simply gets out of the way and play the music in an uncolored manner. Both have excellent bass and extension. The A90 D probably has more air up top, and so far even both have excellent clarity with the Ferrum perhaps having the blacker background. These are early thoughts. My general sense is that you'd want to pair the A90 D with warm headphones and the Ferrum with bright headphones. This isn't to say one is bright and the other one dark though. They appear to be different takes on neutrality.


Please keep the impressions coming as you gain more insights into both amp's SQ.

I'm very curious about the A90D. I owned the A90 for a little while and I wasn't that impressed with it's SQ for all the same reasons that many others have already stated about it (and most other IC-OpAmp based amps that are similar to it).

Thank you!


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## ezduzit2500

HONEYBOY said:


> Just got the A90 Discrete and I have to say it's doing a stellar job with the Sennheiser HD6XX. I don't think I've heard them sound any better. Clears up the vocals really nicely with excellent bass. This is also super silent with my IEMs: IER-Z1R, U12T and the IE900. Nice looking unit too.


How's it compare with your Ferrum setup? Do they not belong in the same room?


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## ezduzit2500

HONEYBOY said:


> Both are relatively new. I've had the Ferrum stack for less than a week, probably less than 10 hours on it, and the A90 Discrete is well under 2 hours. Off the bat they are both great. I see no major issues with the Topping despite its price point. Haven't even tested the balanced outputs, but single ended the Ferrum seems to have a slightly more organic nature to it. The A90 D simply gets out of the way and play the music in an uncolored manner. Both have excellent bass and extension. The A90 D probably has more air up top, and so far even both have excellent clarity with the Ferrum perhaps having the blacker background. These are early thoughts. My general sense is that you'd want to pair the A90 D with warm headphones and the Ferrum with bright headphones. This isn't to say one is bright and the other one dark though. They appear to be different takes on neutrality.


I've read that the Ferrum stack takes a good while to gel and really open up. I'd hold out judgement on either until I put some time on them (a week or two at least).


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## Lacas

HONEYBOY said:


> Both are relatively new. I've had the Ferrum stack for less than a week, probably less than 10 hours on it, and the A90 Discrete is well under 2 hours. Off the bat they are both great. I see no major issues with the Topping despite its price point. Haven't even tested the balanced outputs, but single ended the Ferrum seems to have a slightly more organic nature to it. The A90 D simply gets out of the way and play the music in an uncolored manner. Both have excellent bass and extension. The A90 D probably has more air up top, and so far even both have excellent clarity with the Ferrum perhaps having the blacker background. These are early thoughts. My general sense is that you'd want to pair the A90 D with warm headphones and the Ferrum with bright headphones. This isn't to say one is bright and the other one dark though. They appear to be different takes on neutrality.


hi, does the A90D have lusher/meatier midrange, more organic sound than the OG A90? how is the soundstage? thx a lot


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## carlcamper

@HONEYBOY , just got my A90D as well. I noticed sometimes when I pull put or plug something on the 1/4 unbalanced 6.35mm jack, the unit resets/ goes into standby. Has it ever happened to you?


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## HONEYBOY (Jul 1, 2022)

Yep was just about to mention that. Thats my only gripe so far. I guess there is a protection circuit for certain loads beyond or below a certain resistance. Turn on and turn off time is super quick so I simply turn it off plug headphones in then turn it on.


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## HONEYBOY

Lacas said:


> hi, does the A90D have lusher/meatier midrange, more organic sound than the OG A90? how is the soundstage? thx a lot


I’ve never heard the original A90 so can’t quite do the comparison. I guess it’s all relative, but not sure I’ll call this lush and meaty midrange so far though. Seems like an unadulterated  rendition of what the headphone is capable of. Still evaluating the sound stage. 

The A90D does have excellent synergy with the Dan Clark Stealth. I’ve found those headphones quite tough to drive and despite the Ferrum stack coming across as more organic and pleasant the A90 D seems to have an even better handle on those headphones with slightly better dynamics, bass impact and sonically more pure midrange. 

Will probably have more listening time this weekend. Someone had asked whether the Ferrum stack was in a different class and I can’t say that it is. At least not yet. It is my preferred sound signature though as it’s just natural with a tinge of warmth and sounds more holographic than the A90D.


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## Lacas

HONEYBOY said:


> I’ve never heard the original A90 so can’t quite do the comparison. I guess it’s all relative, but not sure I’ll call this lush and meaty midrange so far though. Seems like an unadulterated  rendition of what the headphone is capable of. Still evaluating the sound stage.
> 
> The A90D does have excellent synergy with the Dan Clark Stealth. I’ve found those headphones quite tough to drive and despite the Ferrum stack coming across as more organic and pleasant the A90 D seems to have an even better handle on those headphones with slightly better dynamics, bass impact and sonically more pure midrange.
> 
> Will probably have more listening time this weekend. Someone had asked whether the Ferrum stack was in a different class and I can’t say that it is. At least not yet. It is my preferred sound signature though as it’s just natural with a tinge of warmth and sounds more holographic than the A90D.


thx, I think you answereed my question with the part below 😊 "It is my preferred sound signature though as it’s just natural with a tinge of warmth and sounds more holographic than the A90D."


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## enricoclaudio

HONEYBOY said:


> Yep was just about to mention that. Thats my only gripe so far. I guess there is a protection circuit for certain loads beyond or below a certain resistance. Turn on and turn off time is super quick so I simply turn it off plug headphones in then turn it on.


I use Hart Audio cables with all my headphones and I keep the single ended and balanced connectors always plugged in and switch only between headphones cables so I'm wondering what would happen when switching only headphones and not unplugging the Hart Audio adapters? I guess I will find out as soon my A90D arrives.


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## ezduzit2500

carlcamper said:


> @HONEYBOY , just got my A90D as well. I noticed sometimes when I pull put or plug something on the 1/4 unbalanced 6.35mm jack, the unit resets/ goes into standby. Has it ever happened to you?


I'd definitely try to turn the volume all the way down (at the least) when plugging/unplugging any hp for fear of damage to both the hps and the amp. Of course, that's really not an issue with balanced hp connections as each phase has it's own plug/connection...


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## thomasu

Can any anyone speak to how the A90 Discrete compares to the Burson Soloist 3XP?


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## carlcamper

Firmware update 2.0 is out, but I can't download it due to the password: https://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/663543.html


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## hsg120

> Added a new feature allowing 5 different volume curves to select
> Added a procedure to alter the gain setting without using the remote



That is awesome =D


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## Andrewteee

HONEYBOY said:


> Just got the A90 Discrete and I have to say it's doing a stellar job with the Sennheiser HD6XX. I don't think I've heard them sound any better. Clears up the vocals really nicely with excellent bass. This is also super silent with my IEMs: IER-Z1R, U12T and the IE900. Nice looking unit too.


You have some fine gear there! What is the dCS component? 

I've been looking at the Topping, noticed you said it pairs well with the DCA Stealth, which I also have. Also have the Chord Mojo 2 for travel and mobility. The Ferrum crossed my path too, but leaning toward Topping given its neutrality. 

What is your fav DAC + amp + headphone pairing, of all the things you have on hand?


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## HONEYBOY

Andrewteee said:


> You have some fine gear there! What is the dCS component?
> 
> I've been looking at the Topping, noticed you said it pairs well with the DCA Stealth, which I also have. Also have the Chord Mojo 2 for travel and mobility. The Ferrum crossed my path too, but leaning toward Topping given its neutrality.
> 
> What is your fav DAC + amp + headphone pairing, of all the things you have on hand?


Hi! That's the dCS Network Bridge. In my view, after having quite heard a number of streamers even costing a lot more, it is still one of the best streamers money can buy lol. They are rare to find since it is now a legacy product from dCS, but it uses the same Mosaic app that all dCS products use and fits my use case of streaming with Roon quite well. The dCS Network Bridge has a way of letting you see way more detail from the track and adding a corporeality to the instruments whilst all sounding natural. It removes the "digital" sound from the Hugo 2.

Yeah, if going for absolutely neutrality then I suspect the A90 discrete is the better performer. From a frequency response standpoint the Ferrum and Topping doesn't seem to add anything, but when juxtaposed there is a paradoxically slightly obvious coloration in the Ferrum. It's very tastefully done, and it makes for a more organic and natural sound than the Topping. You hear this especially with female vocals and guitars where they are a bit warmer on the Ferrum and cooler on the Topping.There is some decent synergy with both amps actually. I was surprised by the Topping as it seems to give the Stealth enough current to not be as lethargic when not driven properly.  Having said that, there is another cool effect with the Ferrum and the Stealth. The Stealth has an excellent ability to resolve spaces between instruments, and the Ferrum Stack has a very black background with the combined effect of making the sound seem more live or transparent and the soundstage is more holographic. The overall resolution with the Stealth and Ferrum appears to be better.

Interestingly it's been hard to choose a favorite pairing, and that seems to change mainly based on mood. One moment the Ferrum shows its charm and is wonderfully musical; another moment I sense the coloration, don't want to hear it and I choose the Topping. I am beginning to think the Hugo 2 is the weak link in the chain! Gonna replace it in a month or so


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## Andrewteee

@HONEYBOY thank you for the detailed reply -- it is super helpful. I agree with your comment on the spaces between instruments on the Stealth (or space in the music) and I can appreciate how you describe the Ferrum background. IME the Stealth let you hear the performance, the playing, but in a very musical way, not analytical, and I'd guess the Ferrum would complement that. 

I'm inline with mood too (and music style). It depends 

I listen mostly to a lot of acoustic guitar of various stripes and ambient/electronic/space music. They each seem to prefer different approaches in playback. 

Truth be told, I have a dCS Bartok but I'm coming around to the notion that the headphone amp does not compete with other options. It's good, very good, but I kind of like the idea of going with amps that are more specifically headphone amps. I've heard the Stealth with other amps and it benefits from them over the Bartok.


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## TheR0v3r

HONEYBOY said:


> Hi! That's the dCS Network Bridge. In my view, after having quite heard a number of streamers even costing a lot more, it is still one of the best streamers money can buy lol. They are rare to find since it is now a legacy product from dCS, but it uses the same Mosaic app that all dCS products use and fits my use case of streaming with Roon quite well. The dCS Network Bridge has a way of letting you see way more detail from the track and adding a corporeality to the instruments whilst all sounding natural. It removes the "digital" sound from the Hugo 2.
> 
> Yeah, if going for absolutely neutrality then I suspect the A90 discrete is the better performer. From a frequency response standpoint the Ferrum and Topping doesn't seem to add anything, but when juxtaposed there is a paradoxically slightly obvious coloration in the Ferrum. It's very tastefully done, and it makes for a more organic and natural sound than the Topping. You hear this especially with female vocals and guitars where they are a bit warmer on the Ferrum and cooler on the Topping.There is some decent synergy with both amps actually. I was surprised by the Topping as it seems to give the Stealth enough current to not be as lethargic when not driven properly.  Having said that, there is another cool effect with the Ferrum and the Stealth. The Stealth has an excellent ability to resolve spaces between instruments, and the Ferrum Stack has a very black background with the combined effect of making the sound seem more live or transparent and the soundstage is more holographic. The overall resolution with the Stealth and Ferrum appears to be better.
> 
> Interestingly it's been hard to choose a favorite pairing, and that seems to change mainly based on mood. One moment the Ferrum shows its charm and is wonderfully musical; another moment I sense the coloration, don't want to hear it and I choose the Topping. I am beginning to think the Hugo 2 is the weak link in the chain! Gonna replace it in a month or so


Thank you for this comparison!

I have the Ferrum stack and also sense the (tasteful) coloration, almost tubelike at times. It works very well with planars. I’ve decided to add another amp to give an alternative sound. And I’m focusing on “neutral” amps. 

Would you mind giving trying a slightly different setup? Specifically using the A90 also as a preamp for the Ferrum configured to run in by-pass mode. Be careful with the volume!

Very interested in your impressions if possible.


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## HONEYBOY

TheR0v3r said:


> Thank you for this comparison!
> 
> I have the Ferrum stack and also sense the (tasteful) coloration, almost tubelike at times. It works very well with planars. I’ve decided to add another amp to give an alternative sound. And I’m focusing on “neutral” amps.
> 
> ...


Yes, I plan to do this, but on vacation at the moment, and likely can't get back to this until early August. Happy Listening!


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## TheR0v3r

HONEYBOY said:


> Yes, I plan to do this, but on vacation at the moment, and likely can't get back to this until early August. Happy Listening!


Looking forward to it 👍. Have a great vacation!


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## carlcamper

Still deciding which balanced DAC sounds best with the Topping A90 Discrete:

A. Topping D10 Balanced with dual Sabre ES9038Q2M DAC chips

B. SMSL D-6 with the new dual AKM AK4493SEQ DAC chips


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## jamesofla80

carlcamper said:


> Still deciding which balanced DAC sounds best with the Topping A90 Discrete:
> 
> A. Topping D10 Balanced with dual Sabre ES9038Q2M DAC chips
> 
> B. SMSL D-6 with the new dual AKM AK4493SEQ DAC chips


How are you enjoying the A90D with your LCD-XC? I have the same headphones and debating about getting this as a SS option to go alongside my Schiit Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 tube amp.


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## carlcamper

jamesofla80 said:


> How are you enjoying the A90D with your LCD-XC? I have the same headphones and debating about getting this as a SS option to go alongside my Schiit Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 tube amp.


Great so far! I'm liking it more with the AKM based DAC as it is slightly warmer to my ears. YMMV depending on your source DAC. Do note I only add a bass shelf in EQ to the LCD-XC 2021, as I find the rest of the FR really well done to my tastes.


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## ezduzit2500

carlcamper said:


> Great so far! I'm liking it more with the AKM based DAC as it is slightly warmer to my ears. YMMV depending on your source DAC. Do note I only add a bass shelf in EQ to the LCD-XC 2021, as I find the rest of the FR really well done to my tastes.


Have you ever tried a balanced DAC with your balanced amp? I find balanced pairings to be superior to SE in most components. JC....


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## carlcamper (Jul 19, 2022)

ezduzit2500 said:


> Have you ever tried a balanced DAC with your balanced amp? I find balanced pairings to be superior to SE in most components. JC....


Both the Topping D10 Balanced and the SMSL D-6 are fully balanced, with separate DAC chips for each channel.


----------



## seadog123

This discrete version have enough ooomph to drive Susvara vs the normal A90 ?


----------



## carlcamper

seadog123 said:


> This discrete version have enough ooomph to drive Susvara vs the normal A90 ?


It has a little more power than the A90, so if you don't EQ, it should be enough. However, if you use a lot of negative preamp, it may not be enough. If that's the case, i heard their new LA90 speaker amp can be a good alternative.


----------



## seadog123

Thank you, but no EQ for me. I’ll have a demo. of it then.


----------



## dennarwhal

Seeking the opinion of anyone who currently has heard the A90 and A90D, any subjective impressions?


----------



## seadog123

No demo. possible as it’s sold out everywhere I’ve looked. But…… I did manage to fund a new one online- last box. I’ve paid and waiting delivery.  Cannot wait to see how it goes with my new Susvara.


----------



## carlcamper

seadog123 said:


> No demo. possible as it’s sold out everywhere I’ve looked. But…… I did manage to fund a new one online- last box. I’ve paid and waiting delivery.  Cannot wait to see how it goes with my new Susvara.


Great! Do let us know how it goes


----------



## ok computer

Anyone know what the delivery status is on these?  Apos just says shipping by 7/30.


----------



## HONEYBOY

Shipping was super fast to the US for me. I think it took like 3-4 days for delivery which is quite remarkable considering I've waited much much longer for things purchased here.


----------



## enricoclaudio

Mine is still pending for shipping from Headphones.com as I got store credit for returning my A90 purchased last year. They said it should be here in the USA in no more than 15 days.


----------



## ezduzit2500

carlcamper said:


> Both the Topping D10 Balanced and the SMSL D-6 are fullt balanced, with separate DAc chips for each channel.


Ooof, I wasn't aware that the D10 had a BAL version, LOL. The D-6 is new isn't it - with TRS BAL outs?


----------



## carlcamper

ezduzit2500 said:


> Ooof, I wasn't aware that the D10 had a BAL version, LOL. The D-6 is new isn't it - with TRS BAL outs?


Yes correct

https://www.topping.audio/productinfo/666141.html
https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/795.html


----------



## carlcamper

https://www.topping.audio/newsinfo/663543.html


----------



## PointyFox

I think people don't know what "good" sounds like. 
The D90 measures nearly perfectly and has near perfect sound.
*People tend to not like good sound* and will often describe it as "sterile" because everything is so well defined and separate, but only in relation to left and right sides.
People spend the big bucks on boutique amplifiers that have a lot of crosstalk or a lot of distortion because they like bad sound (or they just inadvertently make their new amp louder which usually sounds better). 
A lot of crosstalk for instance will slightly merge left and right channels. 
This creates a more continuous sound field and more tangible 3D positioning between left and right as well as a thicker/less "sterile" sound. 
Just look at the RebelAmp crosstalk or pretty much any measurement of the Yggdrasil's performance.
I know good and bad are subjective, but an amplifier should amplify the signal, and there's only one correct way to do that. That's not subjective.

FWIW, I'll add another data point. I owned an Emotiva BasX a2m and the A90 at the same time. I volume matched through a He6se (one of the most difficult to drive headphones) and set up a switch that I could use to switch immediately back and forth. Absolutely no difference in sound. 

Not sorry if anyone gets mad for the perceived assault on their ego. 
Those who are mad may now commence insinuating that I can't hear, am dumb, am trolling, etc. to make themselves feel better.


----------



## Arniesb

PointyFox said:


> I think people don't know what "good" sounds like.
> The D90 measures nearly perfectly and has near perfect sound.
> *People tend to not like good sound* and will often describe it as "sterile" because everything is so well defined and separate, but only in relation to left and right sides.
> People spend the big bucks on boutique amplifiers that have a lot of crosstalk or a lot of distortion because they like bad sound (or they just inadvertently make their new amp louder which usually sounds better).
> ...


Folks like expensive wine... Doesnt make it any better than water.


----------



## PointyFox

I call it old grape juice lol


----------



## Andrewteee

PointyFox said:


> I think people don't know what "good" sounds like.
> 
> I know good and bad are subjective, but an amplifier should amplify the signal, and there's only one correct way to do that. That's not subjective.


I can understand what you're saying here, but clearly from a listener/consumer standpoint there is no one "correct" way to do it. And by correct I mean not good nor bad but different. How many amps are out there and why do people choose different ones. Clearly, "correct" means different things to different people. Otherwise, we'd only need one amp for all the world to buy. 

And there is good and correct but there's also engagement and enjoyment. Perfectly correct (or good) is not always deeply engaging or enjoyable music listening. Music is very emotional and we each react differently to how it's reproduced in the various configurations of our systems. 

We can apply this to photography too. There might be a "correct" camera -- take in the light and convert it to bits (in digital cameras) -- but they all (thankfully) do this differently. And a straight RAW image is often pretty dull; it's a base on which to build the final image through post processing. We can also apply the idea of photography and different ways to process an image to listening to music -- people prefer different things, different approaches to processing (I love black and white photography). 

This has nothing to do with price, or Topping vs boutique amps. 

The A90 Discrete is on my short list to try with the DCA Stealth headphones. With those headphones and certain types of music (mostly acoustic guitar) I probably lean toward the "good" or objective view of the music, partly because I not only enjoy the music but also the sounds of the instruments themselves and even the ambiance of the recording -- I want to hear what's there, a neutral presentation. 

But in other music types (mostly space and ambient and various forms of metal) I prefer a different character, a different type of good and a more subjective presentation.


----------



## PointyFox (Jul 22, 2022)

Andrewteee said:


> I can understand what you're saying here, but clearly from a listener/consumer standpoint there is no one "correct" way to do it. And by correct I mean not good nor bad but different. How many amps are out there and why do people choose different ones. Clearly, "correct" means different things to different people. Otherwise, we'd only need one amp for all the world to buy.
> 
> And there is good and correct but there's also engagement and enjoyment. Perfectly correct (or good) is not always deeply engaging or enjoyable music listening. Music is very emotional and we each react differently to how it's reproduced in the various configurations of our systems.
> 
> ...



I just ordered a Stealth and A90D. Stealth should be here in a couple days and the A90D in like 10-15.
Will review them. I'm expecting the A90D to be able to drive the Stealth at either the high end of low gain or the low end of medium gain.
The A90 drove my Susvara which I believe is a little harder to drive around the middle of medium gain, and the A90D has a little more output range than the A90.

With so little desire for "correct" sound, why don't people just plug some guitar effects pedals into their headphone amps?


----------



## PointyFox

double post


----------



## ezduzit2500 (Jul 22, 2022)

PointyFox said:


> I think people don't know what "good" sounds like.
> The D90 measures nearly perfectly and has near perfect sound.
> *People tend to not like good sound* and will often describe it as "sterile" because everything is so well defined and separate, but only in relation to left and right sides.
> People spend the big bucks on boutique amplifiers that have a lot of crosstalk or a lot of distortion because they like bad sound (or they just inadvertently make their new amp louder which usually sounds better).
> ...


If you can't tell the difference between the A2M and the OG A90....well, I just don't have a good way to add anything else.... Do you, Duke - it's your setup and whatever you like - but I'll pass. When I had them I much preferred the Emo because:_ more natural_ _timbre _compared to A-90.


----------



## ezduzit2500

Andrewteee said:


> I can understand what you're saying here, but clearly from a listener/consumer standpoint there is no one "correct" way to do it. And by correct I mean not good nor bad but different. How many amps are out there and why do people choose different ones. Clearly, "correct" means different things to different people. Otherwise, we'd only need one amp for all the world to buy.
> 
> And there is good and correct but there's also engagement and enjoyment. Perfectly correct (or good) is not always deeply engaging or enjoyable music listening. Music is very emotional and we each react differently to how it's reproduced in the various configurations of our systems.
> 
> ...


Excellently conveyed....


----------



## PointyFox

ezduzit2500 said:


> If you can't tell the difference



Thank you for insinuating that I can't hear.


----------



## ericx85

As others have already said, people will have their opinion of what "correct" is. The people that want to hear a difference will, and the ones that dont want to hear a difference wont. People will hear a difference because they want to justify the high cost of a purchase and you can flip the argument by saying those that don't hear a difference wont want to because graphs tell them they dont or because they'll save money. Whatever camp you're in, you owe it to yourself to try both sides so you'll never be second guessing in the back of your head or trying to shut down other people that are on the other end (not calling out either side). For all you know that $200 DAC/Amp might actually not sound different at all than your $2000 DAC/Amp, or the $2000 might really might sound better to you. Be happy for those that hear a difference and are having a new/better experience. Be happy for those that don't hear a difference because their wallets get to be fatter or they invest in other hobbies while still enjoying their music.

IMHO, both approaches can be correct. Psychological or not. People seek distortion because the digitization of something to their ears makes it sound off or whatever where as the distortion restores how they hear a song or instrument in real life. People that hate distortion want to see a restored signal without any perceived imperfections/alterations because in their opinion that's what the instrument really sounds like. As stupid as this might sound, I feel like the whole debate wouldn't get as heated as it sometimes does or there wouldn't be such a division if the word "distortion" didn't sound as bad as it does on its own without understanding why people do want it and manufacturers will purposely add it. The great thing is, there's companies out there that make gear for every taste and preference at all price points.


----------



## obzilla

PointyFox said:


> I think people don't know what "good" sounds like.



what a strange thing to say about one of the most subjective hobbies out there.


----------



## ok computer

Just got shipping confirmation!  I’ve had a pair of stealths sitting unused in my studio for two weeks lol.  Don’t have anything with a balanced output atm.  Very frustrating not being able to play with your new toys!


----------



## carlcamper

carlcamper said:


> https://www.topping.audio/newsinfo/663543.html


Happy to report a successful firmware update to v2.3. I can now change the gain via the volume knob, and the unit no longer restarts when plugging/unplugging from the 6.35mm unbalanced port, instead displaying a -5 momentarily.


----------



## bagwell359

PointyFox said:


> Thank you for insinuating that I can't hear.


Everyone that doesn't agree is what?  Dupe?  Inexperienced? An ego boy (honestly in 52 years in this hobby never seen or met a female one).  How about weaned on live acoustic  music - from age 5 to recently?  

I've seen the Hersh-Houck days where everything is perfect, when Bose 901's were King. - because the distortion was .0001 n o t .1,  the start of the neurotic high end, SS vs tube, the blossoming of the high end insanity, the ascent of the ABX box, the need to pick one or the other of the tribes and argue ad nauseum, HT, new Schiit, old crap...

You know what?  When you stake everything on being right it obscures the fact that responsible companies/designers should listen and measure and that the actual experience is subjective.  Then tempered by economics, liveability, tastes in music ( change with time), experience.  I've found good usable data/impressions on both sides, and a large pile of baloney too.  Some prefer the journey and not the stiff boundaries.

As I recall "Data" on STNG kept striving to be more human.  Did you ever buy or keep equipment that proved you were part of the cult?  I did from the other side a few times between '84 - '95 - after I confirmed that I became more objective and disciplined. Remember it's music as it was made that's the goal not ego stroking and embracing an ism.


----------



## PointyFox (Jul 25, 2022)

bagwell359 said:


> Everyone that doesn't agree is what?  Dupe?  Inexperienced? An ego boy (honestly in 52 years in this hobby never seen or met a female one).  How about weaned on live acoustic  music - from age 5 to recently?


No, I stated that they sounded the same to me and he essentially told me that I was deaf because I "couldn't hear the difference". No idea what you're going on about with "ego boys" and being weaned.



> I've seen the Hersh-Houck days where everything is perfect, when Bose 901's were King. - because the distortion was .0001 n o t .1, the start of the neurotic high end, SS vs tube, the blossoming of the high end insanity, the ascent of the ABX box, the need to pick one or the other of the tribes and argue ad nauseum, HT, new Schiit, old crap...


Uhh...



> You know what? When you stake everything on being right it obscures the fact that responsible companies/designers should listen and measure and that the actual experience is subjective. Then tempered by economics, liveability, tastes in music ( change with time), experience. I've found good usable data/impressions on both sides, and a large pile of baloney too. Some prefer the journey and not the stiff boundaries.


???



> As I recall "Data" on STNG kept striving to be more human. Did you ever buy or keep equipment that proved you were part of the cult? I did from the other side a few times between '84 - '95 - after I confirmed that I became more objective and disciplined. Remember it's music as it was made that's the goal not ego stroking and embracing an ism.


Cult? What? Are you OK?


----------



## bagwell359

PointyFox said:


> No, I stated that they sounded the same to me and he essentially told me that I was deaf because I "couldn't hear the difference". No idea what you're going on about with "ego boys" and being weaned.
> 
> 
> Uhh...
> ...


Sorry it was a general posting for all - not directed at you.  Pardon.


----------



## PointyFox

bagwell359 said:


> Sorry it was a general posting for all - not directed at you.  Pardon.



Haha I was super confused.


----------



## bagwell359

PointyFox said:


> Haha I was super confused.


No worries.  Thanks.


----------



## PointyFox

Are there any DACs that have a 12v out trigger? I assume Topping is working on one.


----------



## XLR2XLR

PointyFox said:


> Are there any DACs that have a 12v out trigger? I assume Topping is working on one.


Benchmark DAC3 is one of them


----------



## Reputator

PointyFox said:


> I know good and bad are subjective, but an amplifier should amplify the signal, and there's only one correct way to do that. That's not subjective.



This is a shockingly arrogant statement.


----------



## ezduzit2500

PointyFox said:


> Thank you for insinuating that I can't hear.


Hahahaha, not with the size of those ears @PointyFox !!!


----------



## Guacamolly

would it be possible to connect my turntable phono amp to the a90 discrete in RCA to use with my Sennheiser headphones ? thanks


----------



## ezduzit2500

Guacamolly said:


> would it be possible to connect my turntable phono amp to the a90 discrete in RCA to use with my Sennheiser headphones ? thanks


You'd need to have a "Phono Preamp" directly after the turntable to do that...that's if your turntable doesn't have an internal one for it's outputs.


----------



## enricoclaudio

Just got my A90D delivered. It came with Firmware 2.3 already and after connecting it to my Mac Studio with a USB-C to USB-A cable, the firmware drive came up on my desktop immediately. Sound is as good as my A90. Can't really hear any difference with my Sennheiser 660s or with my Sundaras. I have it set it up in High gain and volume at 65 is plenty loud for me. This is really the perfect companion for my Matrix Audio X-SABRE 3


----------



## Arniesb

enricoclaudio said:


> Just got my A90D delivered. It came with Firmware 2.3 already and after connecting it to my Mac Studio with a USB-C to USB-A cable, the firmware drive came up on my desktop immediately. Sound is as good as my A90. Can't really hear any difference with my Sennheiser 660s or with my Sundaras. I have it set it up in High gain and volume at 65 is plenty loud for me. This is really the perfect companion for my Matrix Audio X-SABRE 3


Looking to mirror the same setup in the future, but all white and probably Matrix with new Sabre chipset.
P.S Enrico Can you give a link for this beautiful stand that Matrix is sitting?


----------



## enricoclaudio

Arniesb said:


> Looking to mirror the same setup in the future, but all white and probably Matrix with new Sabre chipset.
> P.S Enrico Can you give a link for this beautiful stand that Matrix is sitting?


Here you go!!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BB446LX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## mrjayviper

what's the:


output impedance
steps in the volume control
Thanks


----------



## carlcamper

mrjayviper said:


> what's the:
> 
> 
> output impedance
> ...


----------



## PointyFox

Lol it says output impedance >0.1 Ohms. Could be over 9000 for all we know.


----------



## carlcamper

PointyFox said:


> Lol it says output impedance >0.1 Ohms. Could be over 9000 for all we know.


I think they meant less than, hehehe


----------



## mrjayviper

PointyFox said:


> Lol it says output impedance >0.1 Ohms. Could be over 9000 for all we know.



LOL


----------



## enricoclaudio (Aug 5, 2022)

mrjayviper said:


> what's the:
> 
> 
> output impedance
> ...



Output  impedances:




















https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...eview-headphone-amp-preamp.35114/post-1272180


----------



## De7mi

enricoclaudio said:


> Just got my A90D delivered. It came with Firmware 2.3 already and after connecting it to my Mac Studio with a USB-C to USB-A cable, the firmware drive came up on my desktop immediately. Sound is as good as my A90. Can't really hear any difference with my Sennheiser 660s or with my Sundaras. I have it set it up in High gain and volume at 65 is plenty loud for me. This is really the perfect companion for my Matrix Audio X-SABRE 3


man such a beautiful and clean table and set up ! 
can you give us a full picture of the desk ?


----------



## De7mi

I received mine a while ago, really impressed with what I'm hearing so far ! the stack works great together.


----------



## enricoclaudio

De7mi said:


> man such a beautiful and clean table and set up !
> can you give us a full picture of the desk ?


Sure!!


----------



## De7mi

enricoclaudio said:


> Sure!!


Such a lovely desk! I'm taking note for my own set-up hahaha


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Been trying this amp for several times. Nice neutral-warm tone, and defitely better depth presentation compared to A90. 

One question, how to change gain without remote? Sorry if silly question haha.


----------



## enricoclaudio

TheMiddleSky said:


> Been trying this amp for several times. Nice neutral-warm tone, and defitely better depth presentation compared to A90.
> 
> One question, how to change gain without remote? Sorry if silly question haha.


You first have to upgrade the firmware to V2.3 then you can use the volume knob to change the gain setting. 

https://www.topping.audio/newsinfo/663543.html


----------



## De7mi

TheMiddleSky said:


> Been trying this amp for several times. Nice neutral-warm tone, and defitely better depth presentation compared to A90.
> 
> One question, how to change gain without remote? Sorry if silly question haha.


Check this link for update of firmware which is required to be able to change the gain without the remote.

https://www.topping.audio/newsinfo/663543.html

If you updated already you can follow this: 
Users can change the gain to
 high by pressing the volume knob and turning it clockwise by 2 steps in 1.5 seconds while the knob is pressed. 
To change the gain to low, press the volume knob and turning it counterclockwise by 2 steps.


----------



## enricoclaudio

Quick tip: you have to use an USB-C to USB-A cable for the firmware’s drive to show up.


----------



## hsg120

Okay, so granted I am an admitted Topping fanboy, but I am so pleased with this amp!!

My only very minor criticism is that the LED color doesn't really match the rest of the X90 product line. No big deal though...

My main motivation for upgrading was because I had to run the A90 on low gain and with the volume knob way down at like 9 o'clock. There was a little bit of channel imbalance with the volume really low, and the volume was super sensitive. 

I was hoping with the A90D I could run it at very low volumes without any channel imbalance. And I figured if I didn't have fine enough control over the volume level, I could adjust the volume on the DAC a touch.

I was pleased to discover that the A90D has extremely fine volume control, even on low gain. And, by virtue of the resistor ladder volume control, the channel balance is always perfect.

I sold my A90 before the A90D arrived so I couldn't do an A/B comparison, but I am so SO pleased with the function and performance of this unit.


----------



## De7mi

hsg120 said:


> Okay, so granted I am an admitted Topping fanboy, but I am so pleased with this amp!!
> 
> My only very minor criticism is that the LED color doesn't really match the rest of the X90 product line. No big deal though...
> 
> ...


From memory can you elaborate a little bit on the difference between the A90 and A90 D ? 
I never heard the original A90 but my impression of the A90 D is that it is a very natural neutral with a touch of warmth.


----------



## hsg120

De7mi said:


> From memory can you elaborate a little bit on the difference between the A90 and A90 D ?
> I never heard the original A90 but my impression of the A90 D is that it is a very natural neutral with a touch of warmth.


Well, please take the following with a grain of salt. There was like a 1 month span between the time I sold my A90 and got the A90D... 

I had my A90 for two years and I personally never detected any added warmth (note--I only have a single set of cans). I did A/B comparisons with other amps I've had over the years and I always thought the A90 was absolutely faithful to original recordings, sometimes to a fault. That is to say, extremely resolving, and very neutral and natural sounding. Which is not coincidentally, my personal preference. 

And frankly to my ears, I feel the A90D sounds more or less the same. I don't think it adds or takes anything away from the track. You just get incredibly clean reproduction, basically as loud as you'd like =D


----------



## jclyle

Is there a review embargo?
I thought we'd have more insight on this amp by now from the 'pro' reviewers.


----------



## carlcamper

jclyle said:


> Is there a review embargo?
> I thought we'd have more insight on this amp by now from the 'pro' reviewers.


Joshua Valour should have his review out this week, stay tuned


----------



## Currawong

jclyle said:


> Is there a review embargo?
> I thought we'd have more insight on this amp by now from the 'pro' reviewers.


I had one arrive a couple of days ago.  Seems to be a fairly solid design. The fantasy that low THD/SINAD numbers translates into actual resolution is just that though. For what you get for $600 it's pretty good though.


----------



## Arniesb

Currawong said:


> I had one arrive a couple of days ago.  Seems to be a fairly solid design. The fantasy that low THD/SINAD numbers translates into actual resolution is just that though. For what you get for $600 it's pretty good though.


Plenty of times this ''resolution'' is just the result of distortion and noise acting as a fake detail.
Personally i never find anything that measure bad to sound impressive for good and dynamic recordings.
Maybe for old recording with low dynamic range i would find low sinad stuff impressive.


----------



## Currawong (Aug 8, 2022)

Arniesb said:


> Plenty of times this ''resolution'' is just the result of distortion and noise acting as a fake detail.
> Personally i never find anything that measure bad to sound impressive for good and dynamic recordings.
> Maybe for old recording with low dynamic range i would find low sinad stuff impressive.


In those cases, it's usually harshness/brightness that is mistaken for detail.  When I refer to detail, it is things such as being able to hear the reverberations in strings during note decay, or the reflections of sound inside the recording venue.  The ability to resolve these things isn't related to SINAD, which is just a measure of a single sine wave when the amp (or device) is just driving the analyser, and not headphones. You can, for example, have high harmonic distortion and still hear micro details in the music.

What's arguably more important is the crosstalk graph and IMD (unpleasant-sounding distortion) graphs. Note that they are often missing! The IMD of amps in this range is most often much higher than the THD from what I've seen. 

I'll get into the specifics of what I hear with music from the A90 Discrete in the review. For $600 it seems to be good value.


----------



## jclyle (Aug 8, 2022)

How Is the clicking sound when adjusting the volume? I know it's typical for relay volume controls to make the sound.

This video makes it sound loud.
Mine will be here Wednesday


----------



## TheMiddleSky

enricoclaudio said:


> You first have to upgrade the firmware to V2.3 then you can use the volume knob to change the gain setting.
> 
> https://www.topping.audio/newsinfo/663543.html



Thanks for the info man.

------------------

What a clever and genius way to make their flagship amp need firmware update to able to change the gain. Everyone should have think about that.

*Do they really forgot to add gain control for their amp or something above human knowledge was happening and prevent them to do it?*


----------



## hsg120

jclyle said:


> How Is the clicking sound when adjusting the volume? I know it's typical for relay volume controls to make the sound.
> 
> This video makes it sound loud.
> Mine will be here Wednesday




The clicking noise from my amp is comparable in volume to other relay-stepped volume controls I've had. I don't think this amp is particularly noisy in that regard.



TheMiddleSky said:


> Thanks for the info man.
> 
> ------------------
> 
> ...



You could always change the gain using the remote. They added the ability to change the gain using the volume knob via a firmware update.


----------



## wazzupi

Currawong said:


> In those cases, it's usually harshness/brightness that is mistaken for detail.  When I refer to detail, it is things such as being able to hear the reverberations in strings during note decay, or the reflections of sound inside the recording venue.  The ability to resolve these things isn't related to SINAD, which is just a measure of a single sine wave when the amp (or device) is just driving the analyser, and not headphones. You can, for example, have high harmonic distortion and still hear micro details in the music.
> 
> What's arguably more important is the crosstalk graph and IMD (unpleasant-sounding distortion) graphs. Note that they are often missing! The IMD of amps in this range is most often much higher than the THD from what I've seen.
> 
> I'll get into the specifics of what I hear with music from the A90 Discrete in the review. For $600 it seems to be good value.


I think a comparison with the singxer would be fantastic as I’m in the market for a SS amp for my Kennerton rognir planar and iems.


----------



## ericx85

If the D sounds exactly like the original A90, then I would go check the SA-1 thread and see peoples comparisons with the original. People who had gripes with the A90 generally much preferred the Singxer. There's also the whole thing of the jumper mod on the Singxer but people were preferring it before the mod was discovered if I remember correctly.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova (Aug 11, 2022)

Currawong said:


> In those cases, it's usually harshness/brightness that is mistaken for detail.  When I refer to detail, it is things such as being able to hear the reverberations in strings during note decay, or the reflections of sound inside the recording venue.  The ability to resolve these things isn't related to SINAD, which is just a measure of a single sine wave when the amp (or device) is just driving the analyser, and not headphones. You can, for example, have high harmonic distortion and still hear micro details in the music.
> 
> What's arguably more important is the crosstalk graph and IMD (unpleasant-sounding distortion) graphs. Note that they are often missing! The IMD of amps in this range is most often much higher than the THD from what I've seen.
> 
> I'll get into the specifics of what I hear with music from the A90 Discrete in the review. For $600 it seems to be good value.


If you've heard the original A90, I would be very interested to learn about the differences between the two, i.e. whether they are technically different but arrive at the same (or similar) sound, or whether the use of discrete components has changed the sound quality. I have recently upgraded to a fully discrete DAC - Gustard X26 Pro - which has exceeded my expectations (compared to the Topping D90 and Denafrips Ares II) and it would appear that at least one of the reasons for this DAC sounding so wonderfully holographic and "full" is the lack of any op-amps in the signal path. This has got me thinking if a similar effect has been achieved in the new A90 amp (although, compared to e.g. the THX 789, the original A90 already sounds quite full-bodied and holographic).


----------



## Currawong

I don't have the original, unfortunately. Discrete amps have the benefit that the designer can implement things as they wish, and they aren't beholden to someone else's design.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova (Aug 11, 2022)

Currawong said:


> I don't have the original, unfortunately. Discrete amps have the benefit that the designer can implement things as they wish, and they aren't beholden to someone else's design.



Thank you for the explanation. If I've understood you correctly, this simply means that the discrete version of the A90 has the potential of sounding better, or at least different, from the original A90, but at the end of the day it depends on the further choices made by the engineers? In other words - it's not automatically better, simply due to the fact that discrete parts have been used?


----------



## Currawong

Mista Lova Lova said:


> Thank you for the explanation. If I've understood you correctly, this simply means that the discrete version of the A90 has the potential of sounding better, or at least different, from the original A90, but at the end of the day it depends on the further choices made by the engineers? In other words - it's not automatically better, simply due to the fact that discrete parts have been used?


Yes, that's it, basically.  An opamp is basically an amplifier in an integrated circuit, so a manufacturer has to work within its specifications.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

I couldn't resist the temptation of comparing the OG and the new A90 so bought one with the option to return it if I don't like it. I should have it tomorrow and will post my findings once I've had a listen; I'm gonna A/B them directly.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

OK, I've got some preliminary impressions for you, but bear in mind I've only had my new "toy" for a few hours.  

Source: Tidal --> Roon
DAC: Gustard X26 Pro
Amps: Topping A90 (OG), Topping A90 Discrete, THX 789
Headphones: Focal Utopia (Hifiman HE1000se to follow next)

My very first impression was the opposite of what I was expecting (and I was expecting richness and warmth) - the new A90 sounded more analytical than the OG, with the sound being slighly pushed away from me (reminding me of the THX's presentation), in comparison making me feel like I'm observing/analysing music rather than participating in it.

I let the amp warm up, not sure if it made much of a difference, but on further listening I started appreciating the extra space (airiness) and separation that it seemed to offer in comparison to the OG. However, it still left me feeling a little underwhelmed - it spoke to my brain more than it did to my heart.

I hooked up the THX for comparison to have yet another reference point. The new A90 is definitely not as clinical and sterile as the THX - it gives music more body and is less sharp. What they (to my ears, at least) have in common, though, is the presentation of music being a little more in front of me rather than around me/embracing me. 

The OG A90 in comparison comes across as slightly warmer, richer, rounding things off ever so slightly, bringing things forward a little, making music more of an experience to immerse yourself in and forget about specific aspects of sound. The highs appear a bit less sharp, and most importantly I'd say the bass is "felt" rather than heard (take this with a grain of salt, of course, we're still talking about headphone listening). The THX is the worst performer here where the bass does not feel fully aligned with the rest of the audio spectrum; the new A90 is much better, it's much more enjoyable; the OG A90 makes the bass kind of embrace you and gets out of the way of other sounds.

So far the new A90 sounds to me like a better version of the THX, whereas the OG A90 clearly sounds different from the other two. Does it make the new A90 more "correct"/transparent-sounding, thus perhaps revealing the OG's added warmth and some "magic" making listening sessions more pleasant? I'm not sure, I've not heard any better amplifiers to compare these to (although there have been reviewers stating that the OG A90 basically sounds like the £3,000 Benchmark HPA 4).

One thing that seems obvious to me at this stage - those who found the OG A90 already too neutral/sterile should not purchase the new A90 without either hearing it first or being able to return it as to my ears it leans even further towards the lean side.


----------



## De7mi

Mista Lova Lova said:


> OK, I've got some preliminary impressions for you, but bear in mind I've only had my new "toy" for a few hours.
> 
> Source: Tidal --> Roon
> DAC: Gustard X26 Pro
> ...


Thank you for your impressions, please keep listening some more and keep the impression coming. Very interesting that the A90 D is more analytical.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova (Aug 13, 2022)

I've switched over to my HEKse now and overall my impressions are very similar; however, the difference in separation has become more obvious. The new A90 seems to be even "cleaner" than the OG - individual notes are even more distinctively separated from each other and there's more "air" in the high frequencies. It's quite addictive and it makes me think that overall the new A90 seems to be a more transparent medium than the old one. Perhaps my headphones are an issue here, both of which are also very transparent and are quite unforgiving in certain aspects (Utopia - incisiveness/directness of sound; HEKse - slightly brighter tuning).

I would say that whilst the new A90 seems to be "cleaner", the old A90 is a bit warmer and has a touch more body to it, so perhaps it all comes down to gear synergy. I can't wait to hear others' impressions; @Currawong surely has lots of different gear at hand.


----------



## Arniesb

Mista Lova Lova said:


> OK, I've got some preliminary impressions for you, but bear in mind I've only had my new "toy" for a few hours.
> 
> Source: Tidal --> Roon
> DAC: Gustard X26 Pro
> ...


Both of your headphones are analytical with little more warmth than HD800S...
Perhaps you should get Soloist? That one have massive amounts of distortion.
Amps like that slow things down and give lot warmth.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

Arniesb said:


> Both of your headphones are analytical with little more warmth than HD800S...
> Perhaps you should get Soloist? That one have massive amounts of distortion.
> Amps like that slow things down and give lot warmth.


It might be a good idea, I should check that out, but to be honest since I bought the Gustard DAC I've been really happy with the original A90 which seemed to mostly strike a good balance between clarity and just a tiny bit of warmth and rounding things off to make things a bit smoother. But the new A90 Discrete is bothering me with its laser-sharp precision. But I got it mostly out of curiosity to compare the two seemingly very similar amps, it just turned out to be different from what I'd expected, but it's got its own strengths so it was an interesting exercise nonetheless.


----------



## Arniesb (Aug 13, 2022)

Mista Lova Lova said:


> It might be a good idea, I should check that out, but to be honest since I bought the Gustard DAC I've been really happy with the original A90 which seemed to mostly strike a good balance between clarity and just a tiny bit of warmth and rounding things off to make things a bit smoother. But the new A90 Discrete is bothering me with its laser-sharp precision. But I got it mostly out of curiosity to compare the two seemingly very similar amps, it just turned out to be different from what I'd expected, but it's got its own strengths so it was an interesting exercise nonetheless.


You can also try full copper interconnects or full copper headphone cables since every component have certain amount of distortion and copper is also less precise than Silver and gives more soft more laidback presentation.
Headphones with sharp attack like hd800S, Utopia, HE1000Se pair very well with copper cabling.
Headphones with softer attack like some lcd's, empyrean campfire cascade perform great with silver cable since those up the transients.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

Arniesb said:


> You can also try full copper interconnects or full copper headphone cables since every component have certain amount of distortion and copper is also less precise than Silver and gives more soft more laidback presentation.
> Headphones with sharp attack like hd800S, Utopia, HE1000Se pair very well with copper cabling.
> Headphones with softer attack like some lcd's, empyrean campfire cascade perform great with silver cable since those up the transients.


I have always only used copper cables 😃 I've never tried silver, I have however tried silver-plated ones and hated them for the way they coloured the sound. Thanks for all the good advice but instead of solving the problem that the new amp has created I think I'd be better off sticking to the original A90 or perhaps eventually upgrading to something like the Ferrum Oor.


----------



## Arniesb

Mista Lova Lova said:


> I have always only used copper cables 😃 I've never tried silver, I have however tried silver-plated ones and hated them for the way they coloured the sound. Thanks for all the good advice but instead of solving the problem that the new amp has created I think I'd be better off sticking to the original A90 or perhaps eventually upgrading to something like the Ferrum Oor.


Its just that open headphones have almost no bass. Better of with headphones that have more bass.


----------



## Currawong

Arniesb said:


> Its just that open headphones have almost no bass. Better of with headphones that have more bass.


You must consider that anything that doesn't have a considerable amount of bass to have no bass, as most of the headphones I have here are open-backed, and most of them have quite a bit of bass, some excessively so. If anything, given the popularity of planar headphones, it's the closed-backed versions that have less bass.


----------



## Arniesb

Currawong said:


> You must consider that anything that doesn't have a considerable amount of bass to have no bass, as most of the headphones I have here are open-backed, and most of them have quite a bit of bass, some excessively so. If anything, given the popularity of planar headphones, it's the closed-backed versions that have less bass.


Oh please... How many of them have good amount of bass? T1.3gen, Abyss, Verite?
How come closed backs have less bass? when seal is requirement for bass and especially for deep bass.
Abyss for example have massive bass since those have huge earpads for good seal, but since they are open and not completely sealed they have a lot of distortions down low.
Old planars with massive double magnets is the past...


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

Arniesb said:


> Its just that open headphones have almost no bass. Better of with headphones that have more bass.


That's what I used to think when I used to hook up my old Beyerdynamics or even Focal Clear directly to my PC's sound card (Asus Xonar Essence STX II) - I admired the clarity but everything sounded flat and unengaging. When I got my first stand-alone DAC and amp (D90 + A90) things changed a lot and I could tell that the headphones were getting the juice they needed. Now, after further upgrades, I find the open-back bass quality so good that it's virtually impossible for me to listen to music in any other way for any longer than a short listening session because I've got so used to this super-clean and super-tight bass. Listening to my speaker set-up (a rather cheap one) which includes a subwoofer or using IEMs when I'm out and about is enjoyable at first but it doesn't take long before I'm wishing there was less quantity but more quality and control instead. 

It needs to be said that the HD800 (which I've still got, just hardly ever use it) is simply lacking in bass quantity (quality is good) and because of its sound presentation it is virtually incapable of sounding punchy with certain types of recordings (relative to e.g. Focal Utopia, Focal Clear etc.). This headphone does other things really well and while I would never want to have it as my only headphone, there's a reason why I still haven't sold it.   

There is also the exception of songs that have clearly been mastered to be played on V-shaped systems (probably mastering engineers expecting that those would be played on gym headphones, in cars etc.) where the bass is lacking on a very accurate open-back headphone but on those rare occasions EQ can be applied (if the headphone was tuned differently then the properly mastered tracks would be overblown). Having a highly-accurate headphone is a double-edged sword as it will make great recordings sound outstanding but it will also amplify any shortcomings a weak recording might have. But (personal choice) I'd rather have that than a headphone which rounds everything off, adds warmth, bass etc. effectively making everything sounding "decent enough" (but rarely great). Some people might prefer that and there's nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Currawong

Arniesb said:


> Oh please... How many of them have good amount of bass? T1.3gen, Abyss, Verite?
> How come closed backs have less bass? when seal is requirement for bass and especially for deep bass.
> Abyss for example have massive bass since those have huge earpads for good seal, but since they are open and not completely sealed they have a lot of distortions down low.
> Old planars with massive double magnets is the past...



Those are three headphones I haven't had here yet. Planar headphones are strange in that you get a drop in the mid-bass when you cover the back. The original LCD-XC was an LCD-X with a back cover. You audibly and measurably lost mid-bass.  DCA Ether C likewise. Aeon as well.   

Regular dynamic driver headphones are a bit of a different beast. They require some kind of enclosure to control the bass response, and indeed often a good seal.

The whole thing gets more complex when it comes to low bass, mid-bass, actual bass or reflections and distortion.  Discussion about this disappeared when Tyll Hertsens left Innerfidelity and stopped taking measurements of things such as square wave and impulse response of headphones.  Similarly, I've heard talk about there being similar measurements done on amplifiers which may reveal why even a super-low THD amp such as the Topping ones, may not be so resolving.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

Currawong said:


> Those are three headphones I haven't had here yet. Planar headphones are strange in that you get a drop in the mid-bass when you cover the back. The original LCD-XC was an LCD-X with a back cover. You audibly and measurably lost mid-bass.  DCA Ether C likewise. Aeon as well.
> 
> Regular dynamic driver headphones are a bit of a different beast. They require some kind of enclosure to control the bass response, and indeed often a good seal.
> 
> The whole thing gets more complex when it comes to low bass, mid-bass, actual bass or reflections and distortion.  Discussion about this disappeared when Tyll Hertsens left Innerfidelity and stopped taking measurements of things such as square wave and impulse response of headphones.  Similarly, I've heard talk about there being similar measurements done on amplifiers which may reveal why even a super-low THD amp such as the Topping ones, may not be so resolving.


Could you give an example of an amp that you would consider "resolving"? I've never heard anything above the A90 - as I've mentioned, the OG was considered to sound on par with the Benchmark HPA 4, and that led me to believe that anything above it (except for headphones such as the Suvara, Abyss, estats etc.) would not be better as such, just tuned differently (e.g. warmer) which some people might prefer. Would your perception of an amp being more "resolving" not be (at least partially) affected by its warmer tuning, making things sound deeper/more "mature' and thus leading you to perceive it as "more resolving"? I'm trying to work out if upgrading my amp should be my next step or whether it would be more of a horizontal change.


----------



## Guacamolly

Mista Lova Lova said:


> those who found the OG A90 already too neutral/sterile should not purchase the new A90 without either hearing it first or being able to return it as to my ears it leans even further towards the lean side.


I do confirm this statement. 

I think this A90D is better for my speakers rather than headphones.
The sound is very weak / unweighty compared to my Fiio M17.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova (Aug 14, 2022)

I have done some more listening after getting a good night's sleep (and hopefully resetting my brain) and the gap is even bigger now - I far prefer the original A90, it sounds full, visceral/tactile and alive in comparison; the new A90 sounds bright, lean, harsh and analytical.

@Currawong - I hope that you get to hear the OG A90 one day, it's so different from the new one and if you seem to think that it's good value at $600 then I suspect you may really like the OG, especially since it's even cheaper.

Edit - when you said you didn't have the OG I took it as meaning you also hadn't heard it but perhaps I made the wrong assumption.


----------



## Arniesb

Mista Lova Lova said:


> I have done some more listening after getting a good night's sleep (and hopefully resetting my brain) and the gap is even bigger now - I far prefer the original A90, it sounds full, visceral/tactile and alive in comparison; the new A90 sounds bright, lean, harsh and analytical.
> 
> @Currawong - I hope that you get to hear the OG A90 one day, it's so different from the new one and if you seem to think that it's good value at $600 then I suspect you may really like the OG, especially since it's even cheaper.
> 
> Edit - when you said you didn't have the OG I took it as meaning you also hadn't heard it but perhaps I made the wrong assumption.


You can try to eq your headphones... Maybe increase bass slightly and decrease highs slightly.
If problem is solved then its not amp that is problem. Then again...
Good measuring dacs and amps most of the time have very strong attack and Utopia for example is also super strong in attack.
For movies and games technical prowess of Topping, Benchmark, sabre stuff is very welcome, but for music it can be too much.
Violectric amps pair very well with Analytical headphones as from my experience with v280 and Utopia, HD800S. From what i read soloist and Ferrum Orr stack should also pair well with your headphones.
Good luck.


----------



## Currawong (Aug 15, 2022)

I compared the A90D with the SA-1 yesterday, level matched, from the Yggdrasil. I did find the SA-1 to be a touch more nuanced driving the Stealth, and the A90D a bit less. I hadn't been expecting that. It was quite subtle though. I reckon if someone finds these amps a bit bright (or lean or harsh, or whatever word one prefers) a Jotunheim 2 would be better. It also seems to deliver a better sense of depth (ie: front to back imaging) which is noticeable with headphones such as the Utopias.

I wonder if this bright/lean/harsh impression, which I didn't experience myself, is because I'm using a power conditioner. I'm also wondering if most people don't pair them with a Topping DAC as well. I'll have a go tomorrow with the D90 (original) with both hooked up directly into the mains to see if I can't figure it out.

Edit: I had a quick listen just now via the D90 and now and it's the DAC for sure. Five Man Army (Massive Attack) has unpleasant sibilance via this combination.  The USB input on the D90 is not so great, so direct from a computer sounds hard and edgy to me.

Edit 2: Normally, when an amp (or DAC) is made down to a price, the designer will tune the circuit to make it sound a bit warm to cover any hardness or edginess in the sound that comes as a consequence. This is not something that affects the frequency response of the amp, but is done in other ways that don't show much, if at all in conventional measurements. However, if you only design things to look impressive at 1kHz on an analyser with optimised settings, that hardness/edginess will come through (maybe from IMD, noise floor modulation, noise generated by the USB receiver in DACs and other things that only show up when actual music is playing with headphones connected, and not test tones being fed to an analyser) and the music will sound unpleasant.  Gotye's Puzzle With A Piece Missing through the Topping stack is like being stabbed in the ears.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova (Aug 15, 2022)

Currawong said:


> I compared the A90D with the SA-1 yesterday, level matched, from the Yggdrasil. I did find the SA-1 to be a touch more nuanced driving the Stealth, and the A90D a bit less. I hadn't been expecting that. It was quite subtle though. I reckon if someone finds these amps a bit bright (or lean or harsh, or whatever word one prefers) a Jotunheim 2 would be better. It also seems to deliver a better sense of depth (ie: front to back imaging) which is noticeable with headphones such as the Utopias.
> 
> I wonder if this bright/lean/harsh impression, which I didn't experience myself, is because I'm using a power conditioner. I'm also wondering if most people don't pair them with a Topping DAC as well. I'll have a go tomorrow with the D90 (original) with both hooked up directly into the mains to see if I can't figure it out.
> 
> ...


I still have my D90, so I've also just had a quick listen. The difference between the old A90 and the new one is still there and is very easily noticeable.

While I would still use the adjectives I've used so far to describe the new Topping, relative to the OG A90, I think I may have been a little too harsh on this amp. It does actually sound cleaner than the OG, making the latter sound slightly veiled in comparison. Where the OG injects a touch of warmth, resulting in a slightly less direct/incisive sound (and making bass perceptually more present), the new A90 injects air between notes, perfectly clear detail and definition.

I remember when I first heard the THX789 (after I'd bought my A90) my first impression was: "It is actually cleaner-sounding than the A90". I was confused. But at the end of the day it had a sterile quality to it that just sucked life out of music for me and however clean it was, I knew I was never gonna be able to enjoy it long-term. This new A90 has a similar quality ("wow, it's clean"), but it doesn't suffer from the 789's lifelessness. So I think it might be fair to say that it's technically a better amplifier than the old A90, whilst the original A90 might still be more pleasant for some.

Now I've got a conundrum in front me (ha, I shouldn't be surprised having been in the hobby for a while now...) - the OG has got something magical about it but I'd probably miss the extra clarity of the new one... 🤯 Maybe what I should do is keep the new one and just get some tubes for the Utopia


----------



## wazzupi (Aug 15, 2022)

Currawong said:


> I compared the A90D with the SA-1 yesterday, level matched, from the Yggdrasil. I did find the SA-1 to be a touch more nuanced driving the Stealth, and the A90D a bit less. I hadn't been expecting that. It was quite subtle though. I reckon if someone finds these amps a bit bright (or lean or harsh, or whatever word one prefers) a Jotunheim 2 would be better. It also seems to deliver a better sense of depth (ie: front to back imaging) which is noticeable with headphones such as the Utopias.
> 
> I wonder if this bright/lean/harsh impression, which I didn't experience myself, is because I'm using a power conditioner. I'm also wondering if most people don't pair them with a Topping DAC as well. I'll have a go tomorrow with the D90 (original) with both hooked up directly into the mains to see if I can't figure it out.
> 
> ...


Which yggy do you have ? Nvm I see analog 2 does it have unison ?


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

The OG also sounds much more intimate, like I've mentioned before it has a tendency to put you in the middle of the song. None of my other equipment does it so I think the A90 is quite unique in this regard, but it also has the downside of music sounding more in your head (with great depth, but still). The new A90 sounds open, airy and less intimate (easier to focus on particular aspects of sound).


----------



## carlcamper

carlcamper said:


> Joshua Valour should have his review out this week, stay tuned


And it is out!


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## De7mi

carlcamper said:


> And it is out!





De7mi said:


> I never heard the original A90 but my impression of the A90 D is that it is a very natural neutral with a touch of warmth.



Ok so Joshua’s impressions basically lines with mine as I mentioned before. 

I never found the A90D to be bright or harsh to be honest. But also I think the D90LE dac is an impressive piece of gear even compared to the original D90 dac which could be the reason some of the members here perceive harshness or brightness?


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

He says the new one sounds warmer and richer. Wow, pretty much the opposite of my experience. Perhaps our hearing is really so different or my OG A90 is a weird-sounding unit


----------



## mrjayviper

anybody flashed the new firmware (version 2.4) yet? feedback?


----------



## wazzupi

mrjayviper said:


> anybody flashed the new firmware (version 2.4) yet? feedback?


Not sure did it just come out ?


----------



## Currawong

Mista Lova Lova said:


> While I would still use the adjectives I've used so far to describe the new Topping, relative to the OG A90, I think I may have been a little too harsh on this amp. It does actually sound cleaner than the OG, making the latter sound slightly veiled in comparison. Where the OG injects a touch of warmth, resulting in a slightly less direct/incisive sound (and making bass perceptually more present), the new A90 injects air between notes, perfectly clear detail and definition.



I never had the original A90 here. But given the way people described it, and this one, I'm definitely thinking they are hearing whatever DAC they are pairing it with, not the amp.



Mista Lova Lova said:


> I remember when I first heard the THX789 (after I'd bought my A90) my first impression was: "It is actually cleaner-sounding than the A90". I was confused. But at the end of the day it had a sterile quality to it that just sucked life out of music for me and however clean it was, I knew I was never gonna be able to enjoy it long-term. This new A90 has a similar quality ("wow, it's clean"), but it doesn't suffer from the 789's lifelessness. So I think it might be fair to say that it's technically a better amplifier than the old A90, whilst the original A90 might still be more pleasant for some.



I was going to do an AAA ONE vs. Magni review, when the former was discounted to $129, but I find it unlistenable now. 



wazzupi said:


> Which yggy do you have ? Nvm I see analog 2 does it have unison ?


Sorry, I forgot to say that it's an A2/OG with Unison.  Depending on how everything is set-up, it is either fed by a streamer, or fed from the MScaler (often with some up-sampling switched on). It has a slightly less "dry" sound from the MScaler.


mrjayviper said:


> anybody flashed the new firmware (version 2.4) yet? feedback?


I wonder if it fixes a weird issue I have where if I touch the volume knob gently, and almost turn it, that the volume will jump 20 steps (in either direction). Got a link?


----------



## mrjayviper

wazzupi said:


> Not sure did it just come out ?


aug 8 (so last week?)


----------



## mrjayviper

Currawong said:


> I wonder if it fixes a weird issue I have where if I touch the volume knob gently, and almost turn it, that the volume will jump 20 steps (in either direction). Got a link?


not at the moment but it was on topping's site.


----------



## carlcamper

mrjayviper said:


> anybody flashed the new firmware (version 2.4) yet? feedback?


Yes, it was successful for me. The unbalanced unplugging and plugging issue is still fixed, meaning instead of restarting, it temporarily shows -5, then continues working.


----------



## carlcamper

mrjayviper said:


> not at the moment but it was on topping's site.


Heres the link to V2.4: https://www.topping.audio/newsinfo/686950.html


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## Mista Lova Lova (Aug 15, 2022)

Currawong said:


> I never had the original A90 here. But given the way people described it, and this one, I'm definitely thinking they are hearing whatever DAC they are pairing it with, not the amp.


I have been using the same DAC for both, switching back and forth. I think I've had enough of the new A90 already and will be sending it back shortly. It might be good for warm/thick-sounding cans, it has much less body than the OG, sound becomes thin in comparison (hence the perception of being cleaner and more transparent, I suppose). Closer to THX 789 than the original A90 to my ears. At least it's rekindled my love for the OG A90 😎


----------



## wazzupi

Currawong said:


> I never had the original A90 here. But given the way people described it, and this one, I'm definitely thinking they are hearing whatever DAC they are pairing it with, not the amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Omg yes !!! I had it at 60 and it jumped to 85 on me I was luckily listening to hps and not my IEMs….


----------



## Lacas

Currawong said:


> I compared the A90D with the SA-1 yesterday, level matched, from the Yggdrasil. I did find the SA-1 to be a touch more nuanced driving the Stealth, and the A90D a bit less. I hadn't been expecting that. It was quite subtle though. I reckon if someone finds these amps a bit bright (or lean or harsh, or whatever word one prefers) a Jotunheim 2 would be better. It also seems to deliver a better sense of depth (ie: front to back imaging) which is noticeable with headphones such as the Utopias.
> 
> I wonder if this bright/lean/harsh impression, which I didn't experience myself, is because I'm using a power conditioner. I'm also wondering if most people don't pair them with a Topping DAC as well. I'll have a go tomorrow with the D90 (original) with both hooked up directly into the mains to see if I can't figure it out.
> 
> ...


I think i can agree with your assumption - since i use a power conditioner and a Pangea power cable with the A90 OG the harshness is gone or at least minimised, sound is much more palpable (dac is D70S connected through xlr, primarily used on medium gain)


----------



## PointyFox

> Normally, when an amp (or DAC) is made down to a price, the designer will tune the circuit to make it sound a bit warm to cover any hardness or edginess in the sound that comes as a consequence. This is not something that affects the frequency response of the amp, but is done in other ways that don't show much, if at all in conventional measurements.


Got any sources for this information?
How do you know this?


----------



## Arniesb

Mista Lova Lova said:


> I have been using the same DAC for both, switching back and forth. I think I've had enough of the new A90 already and will be sending it back shortly. It might be good for warm/thick-sounding cans, it has much less body than the OG, sound becomes thin in comparison (hence the perception of being cleaner and more transparent, I suppose). Closer to THX 789 than the original A90 to my ears. At least it's rekindled my love for the OG A90 😎


Good luck finding suitable amp.
I loved Violectric V280 with every analytical headphones, but next time i just get whatever headphone that doesnt need eq or specific amps.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

Arniesb said:


> Good luck finding suitable amp.
> I loved Violectric V280 with every analytical headphones, but next time i just get whatever headphone that doesnt need eq or specific amps.


I think you misunderstood my previous posts. I am happy with the OG A90; I wasn't until I bought the Gustard X26 Pro, with this DAC in my system the overall synergy is fantastic. I only "bought" (effectively borrowed) the new A90 out of sheer curiosity, thinking: Did they use a different topology but arrive at the same result or does it actually sound different? I guess that having been in the hobby for a while, and having had my preconceptions shattered on a few occasions, I couldn't resist conducting my own little experiment and thus reaching empirical conclusions.

I have only shared those findings because: 1. I find them interesting and contrary to my expectations; 2. I was hoping that this would assist some fellow audiophiles in making a decision whether this amp is for them, especially when torn between this and the OG.

I am not currently looking for any upgrade to my system and am happy where I am (for now, hehe). 😃


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

Just a quick update - I have done a direct comparison between the THX 789 and the new A90 - the A90D is miles ahead of the THX. It's much more 3D-sounding, with instruments having their own space as opposed to being painted on a two-dimensional canvas. It's worth noting that this difference may not be so apparent on headphones which do not have great depth and layering (the price difference between the amps is very significant).

So the A90D is in the same league as the OG, except it prioritises clarity and airiness over warmth and "ease of listening". Both the full-bodied and rounded-off sound of the OG and the extra clarity of the A90D are quite addivictive, to be honest, I've been switching back and forth depending on the track... I guess my ears are adjusting after a few days.


----------



## N0sferatu (Aug 17, 2022)

Can't wait to get this unit tomorrow.  On a total impulse I went nuts and bought the A90D, D90SE, and a Schitt Lokius today all with overnight delivery so I'm hoping FedEx gets it right and has it on my door step tomorrow.

I've had the proper headphone (Hifiman Arya + Periapt cable) but was running through some budget yet potent DAC/AMP for the money (Topping D30 + Schitt Hersey). I found a neighbor who I got on the bug of this hobby and he bought an HD650 and likes my D30/Hersey combo.  So I got him agreed to buy it off me as soon as I get this setup so I decided to just start clicking buy buy buy today.  

I got two questions:

1.) What kind of monumental upgrade am I going to see tomorrow when this thing arrives?  I can't believe I just dropped some stupid coin but figured it'll match with a proper headphone rather than pairing it with entry level hardware.

2.) Will it be worth getting a Periapt XLR cable for the Arya and ditch the unbalanced setup?


----------



## PointyFox (Aug 17, 2022)

N0sferatu said:


> 1.) What kind of monumental upgrade am I going to see tomorrow when this thing arrives? I can't believe I just dropped some stupid coin but figured it'll match with a proper headphone rather than pairing it with entry level hardware.
> 
> 2.) Will it be worth getting a Periapt XLR cable for the Arya and ditch the unbalanced setup?


1) You'll probably hear as much of an upgrade as you believe you should. In reality, it's probably indistinguishable once volume matched since the Arya is easy to drive only only requires about 214 mV, or like 0.0016 W to reach 94 dB while the Heresy can put out a little over 2.4 W into the Arya.
2) No, you already have enough volume range with the Heresy. The only benefit of going balanced is more power if SE isn't loud enough. There could be very very slightly better channel separation, but that is dependent on the amp.


----------



## ezduzit2500

TheMiddleSky said:


> Been trying this amp for several times. Nice neutral-warm tone, and defitely better depth presentation compared to A90.
> 
> One question, how to change gain without remote? Sorry if silly question haha.


Depth recreation, a relatively closed-in upper treble/tipped up mid-bass (either/or both), and less than comparable timbre were where the OG A90 failed, IMO. I enjoyed my Schiit Magni 3+ (cheap, discrete topology) in those areas much more than the OG A90 in those areas.


----------



## ezduzit2500

Mista Lova Lova said:


> It might be a good idea, I should check that out, but to be honest since I bought the Gustard DAC I've been really happy with the original A90 which seemed to mostly strike a good balance between clarity and just a tiny bit of warmth and rounding things off to make things a bit smoother. But the new A90 Discrete is bothering me with its laser-sharp precision. But I got it mostly out of curiosity to compare the two seemingly very similar amps, it just turned out to be different from what I'd expected, but it's got its own strengths so it was an interesting exercise nonetheless.


IME, new discrete amps (many amps really) take a while to run in and open up (~a week to ten days at least). I think it has to do with the discrete components and capacitors reaching their ideal or nominal state of operation. I've heard this phenomenon with several brand new out of the box components. Give it time - I've even setup a pink noise loop overnights to speed along the process. Give us some impressions after a week to see if your impressions change in any way.


----------



## ezduzit2500

Arniesb said:


> Its just that open headphones have almost no bass. Better of with headphones that have more bass.


Hahaha. You obviously haven't heard any good planars - they excel in bass with all it's many characters (ie: speed, depth, punch/dynamics, texture).


----------



## PointyFox

ezduzit2500 said:


> Hahaha. You obviously haven't heard any good planars - they excel in bass with all it's many characters (ie: speed, depth, punch/dynamics, texture).



The only open back planars I've heard with what I'd call good bass are the Susvara and Arya V3.  Open back planars compared to dynamics tend to have better bass extension but worse bass impact. Dynamics are better known for their bass impact.


----------



## ezduzit2500

N0sferatu said:


> Can't wait to get this unit tomorrow.  On a total impulse I went nuts and bought the A90D, D90SE, and a Schitt Lokius today all with overnight delivery so I'm hoping FedEx gets it right and has it on my door step tomorrow.
> 
> I've had the proper headphone (Hifiman Arya + Periapt cable) but was running through some budget yet potent DAC/AMP for the money (Topping D30 + Schitt Hersey). I found a neighbor who I got on the bug of this hobby and he bought an HD650 and likes my D30/Hersey combo.  So I got him agreed to buy it off me as soon as I get this setup so I decided to just start clicking buy buy buy today.
> 
> ...


Congrats. Jumping in the deep-end I see, hehehe (relative to your existing chain). I can't answer your 1st question but I can answer the second one. Go balanced all the way - you've paid for balanced and to not use it would be a waste of money. IMO, first, balanced offers more power on-hand for you to be able to crank up the volume without having to worry about strain or distortion (if your amp is capable). The second benefit is potentially less noise/RFI/EMI for a desktop setup with a bunch of different components all sharing the same desk. The third benefit is slightly greater stereo separation from the balanced topology. IMO, before you pass judgement - let it play in for at least a week so that the internal components have a chance to warm up/play in to arrive at their ideal operating states, and so the capacitors have a chance to fully charge. Then, listen to it exclusively for a week so that you can become accustomed to it's presentation. Lastly, after you've listened to it for a solid week, go back to your previous chain to see if you can perceive a difference. That's what I'd do - especially since this is a brand new chain and you're not accustomed to listening to it. Report back, I wanna hear your impressions.


----------



## PointyFox

ezduzit2500 said:


> Congrats. Jumping in the deep-end I see, hehehe (relative to your existing chain). I can't answer your 1st question but I can answer the second one. Go balanced all the way - you've paid for balanced and to not use it would be a waste of money. IMO, first, balanced offers more power on-hand for you to be able to crank up the volume without having to worry about strain or distortion (if your amp is capable). The second benefit is potentially less noise/RFI/EMI for a desktop setup with a bunch of different components all sharing the same desk. The third benefit is slightly greater stereo separation from the balanced topology. IMO, before you pass judgement - let it play in for at least a week so that the internal components have a chance to warm up/play in to arrive at their ideal operating states, and so the capacitors have a chance to fully charge. Then, listen to it exclusively for a week so that you can become accustomed to it's presentation. Lastly, after you've listened to it for a solid week, go back to your previous chain to see if you can perceive a difference. That's what I'd do - especially since this is a brand new chain and you're not accustomed to listening to it. Report back, I wanna hear your impressions.



Yes, it can also eliminate noise from ground loops. The stereo separation is usually very slightly better (should be undetectable), but sometimes it's worse too based on the amplifier. Internal components don't need much time to reach steady state. Capacitors reach (nearly) steady state after seconds.


----------



## ezduzit2500 (Aug 17, 2022)

PointyFox said:


> Yes, it can also eliminate noise from ground loops. The stereo separation is usually very slightly better (should be undetectable), but sometimes it's worse too based on the amplifier. Internal components don't need much time to reach steady state. Capacitors reach (nearly) steady state after seconds.


I don't think so. My SU-9 took 3 or 4 days to stabilize and become detailed and develop _timbre_. Before that time it was bright and harsh with not much going for it over much cheaper DACs. Same with Magni 3+ - it was harsh for about a week before it played in.


----------



## PointyFox

ezduzit2500 said:


> I don't think so. My SU-9 took 3 or 4 days to stabilize and become detailed and develop _timbre_. Before that time it was bright and harsh with not much going for it over much cheaper DACs. Same with Magni 3+ - it was harsh for about a week before it played in.



That's hardly proof. Most likely brain burn-in.


----------



## mrjayviper

N0sferatu said:


> 1.) What kind of monumental upgrade am I going to see tomorrow when this thing arrives?  I can't believe I just dropped some stupid coin but figured it'll match with a proper headphone rather than pairing it with entry level hardware.


your ears will get used to the sound...


----------



## Arniesb

ezduzit2500 said:


> Hahaha. You obviously haven't heard any good planars - they excel in bass with all it's many characters (ie: speed, depth, punch/dynamics, texture).


You obviously didnt heard good sub or good closed back headphones.
Planars go deep they dont move much air at all.
There isnt much of them that have tremendous bass.


----------



## Pashmeister

Arniesb said:


> You obviously didnt heard good sub or good closed back headphones.
> Planars go deep they dont move much air at all.
> There isnt much of them that have tremendous bass.


You’re both right that good bass can come from either dynamic or planars. It’s the electrostats that don’t do it for me on bass.

Love the bass on my dynamic Radiance or my planar Abyss 1266 TC (one of the cans with the best bass you can get?). 

Susvara has amazing bass for me (controlled, seemingly bottomless) and sometimes I prefer the Susvara bass the most especially with Soul music.


----------



## N0sferatu (Aug 18, 2022)

ezduzit2500 said:


> Congrats. Jumping in the deep-end I see, hehehe (relative to your existing chain). I can't answer your 1st question but I can answer the second one. Go balanced all the way - you've paid for balanced and to not use it would be a waste of money. IMO, first, balanced offers more power on-hand for you to be able to crank up the volume without having to worry about strain or distortion (if your amp is capable). The second benefit is potentially less noise/RFI/EMI for a desktop setup with a bunch of different components all sharing the same desk. The third benefit is slightly greater stereo separation from the balanced topology. IMO, before you pass judgement - let it play in for at least a week so that the internal components have a chance to warm up/play in to arrive at their ideal operating states, and so the capacitors have a chance to fully charge. Then, listen to it exclusively for a week so that you can become accustomed to it's presentation. Lastly, after you've listened to it for a solid week, go back to your previous chain to see if you can perceive a difference. That's what I'd do - especially since this is a brand new chain and you're not accustomed to listening to it. Report back, I wanna hear your impressions.



Thanks.  I have higher end speaker gear so I'm used to having good sound (Monitor Audio Platinum, Anthem AVR, Emotiva AMP, etc.).  I just never spent much on the AMP/DAC stuff before opting for cheaper stuff.  I'll start RCA because that's all I have.  I can quickly source XLR cabling but not quickly source an XLR cable for Arya unless you know of where.  I bought Periapt cable for Arya which I like (terminates to the usual plug) but they custom build them takes a month to get it.

As for the others commenting on bass and planar.  It's there on open back planar.  I owned both Denon D7000 and Fostex TH900 previously and those were known to be pretty bass heavy closed back headphones.  The Arya hits good.  It was a tad less than them however throw a little EQ at them and wow for open back do they slam good.  With that said, I sold all my other gear (at the time was Fostex and Sennheiser HD600).  I had both of those one for bass and one for open sound.  The Arya has good bass and open sound and for the money it really is the best bang for your buck headphone.  Audeze is also a great headphone player in that arena too.  I have no desire to move up the chain.  I've demoed my fair share of headphones and the only one I would consider over the Arya is the Stax SR009, however that's insanely expensive!  It's funny I like modern music and EDM and whatnot and jamming Armin on Stax I had some older dudes giving me a "huh" look as to why I'm not listening to the usual elevator type music!


----------



## Guacamolly

The HEKSE sound is good "as is" no need to EQ with the D90LE + A90D


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 18, 2022)

Is this dude Joshua indirectly saying this amp is crap?

Why would he show us a unit thats broken?

EDIT: Imagine your Susvaras, 1266 TC, Solitaires other expensive ones, make that HUGE pop!.....

EIDT2: "no no no its only my unit thats faulty, yours will not be like this"....this dude has sarcasm, Im telling ya


----------



## N0sferatu

Well I got the stack just plugged it in on the middle of my desk.  I didn't check any firmware, I didn't install any drivers, I didn't even put it where I plan on placing it.  Just plug & play to make sure everything works.  Definitely a nice sound signature.    

Lokius easily alters the signal on the fly to my likings.  

D90SE
A90D
Schitt Lokius

I'll let it play and break in!


----------



## De7mi

N0sferatu said:


> Well I got the stack just plugged it in on the middle of my desk.  I didn't check any firmware, I didn't install any drivers, I didn't even put it where I plan on placing it.  Just plug & play to make sure everything works.  Definitely a nice sound signature.
> 
> Lokius easily alters the signal on the fly to my likings.
> 
> ...


Congrats! This stack looks Great 🤩


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## OCC7N (Aug 18, 2022)

Just holes or is it microphone?

EDIT: I am not going to talk about the font used for "_A90 Discrete_"...I am not


----------



## jclyle

OCC7N said:


> Just holes or is it microphone?
> 
> EDIT: I am not going to talk about the font used for "_A90 Discrete_"...I am not


It's the remote sensor.


----------



## N0sferatu

Okay have a few hours under my belt.  I don't believe solid state stuff really needs a "break-in" but I'll leave it running for a few days just jamming Tidal on shuffle.  
With that said, I'll have to actual sit down and A&B it with my previous way cheaper rig ($220 all in D30+Schitt Heresey) but at the moment this sucker sings.  XLR I'm assuming is a ton more power as I'm on RCA now.  Most listening is 60-65 on the dial.  70 is getting loud, 75 is really loud, 80 for short bursts or this is stupid stupid loud.  

This is unbalanced RCA outputs into a Hifiman Arya.  She definitely sings on this.  The Arya needs more than power as I sold an Audio-GD FUN when I bought the Arya.  It had volume but no life.  The Schitt Hersey gave it life.  So does the Topping A90D.  

I can't tell if it's more the D90SE (probably is) or the A90D but I'm picking up details in tracks I know well that I didn't know were there.  Overall very pleasant.  I also like my Lokius to EQ since I cannot use Peace APO EQ anymore given I'm going full exclusive mode with MQA from Tidal on it.   Software was a breeze on a custom built Windows 11 rig.  192Khz on both Qobuz and Tidal MQA.


----------



## Currawong

PointyFox said:


> 1) You'll probably hear as much of an upgrade as you believe you should. In reality, it's probably indistinguishable once volume matched since the Arya is easy to drive only only requires about 214 mV, or like 0.0016 W to reach 94 dB while the Heresy can put out a little over 2.4 W into the Arya.
> 2) No, you already have enough volume range with the Heresy. The only benefit of going balanced is more power if SE isn't loud enough. There could be very very slightly better channel separation, but that is dependent on the amp.


It's readily possible with some music, such as movie sound tracks to reach well over that, due to the large amount of sub-bass. The demands on an amp will be very dependent on the music. For example, 105 dB at 1kHz is painfully loud, but 105 dB at 20 Hz doesn't sound that loud at all, due to the way our hearing works. 

The smaller amps, such as the Heresy and Topping equivalents, will quickly distort in the bass frequencies as the volume increases. This is both audible, and people have measured it (not that you need to measure something that is blatantly audible). Likewise, with many headphones, as you turn the volume up, the soundstage sounds compressed, something you don't get in a $400 or above amp (and, as you go further up in amplifier quality, the impression of the sound being amplified at all begins to disappear).

If an amplifier has been designed primarily as a balanced amp, then performance from the SE outputs will not be as optimal as they will be from the balanced outputs. This has given rise to the false notion that "balanced is better" in general. 



PointyFox said:


> That's hardly proof.


Why does anyone here have to prove their experiences?  Is asking for something this impossible really not just trolling?


----------



## 563085

PointyFox said:


> The D90 measures nearly perfectly and has near perfect sound



Incorrect, The D90 is clean and punchy, but it's soundstage is small and somewhat thin sounding, like a wall of sound vs something that has layers/3D space.  The Bifrost 2 is better, some would say the Ares 2 is as well, although that's a tradeoff in a little bit of clarity.  If you mod the Ares 2 with the screw/cover mod and run it in OS mode/slow filter then even better.  Run a thick aftermarket power cable to it, and EVEN better.

Too many people treat MEASUREMENTS.....GASP.....as the pinnacle of what defines a great Dac/Amp.  Wrong, we measure with our ears, not our eyes.  You don't say a car is great based on it's specs, it's based on how it actually drives.

Anyone ordering the new A90D amp right away, without seeing more reviews first, is a fool.  The smart play is to wait and see how it compares with the Singxer SA-1

Also, the amount of people that have audiophile equipment, yet they run around with them plugged in with the stock $4 IEC power cords is insane.  Not to mention people running USB to their DAC just from one of the regular USB ports on their mainboard.  To TRULY unleash your equipment, you should be running a great audiophile quality USB add-in card like ELfidelity AXF-100 Pro III or the Matrix Element H, and also using thicker aftermarket power cords.   Everyone that has tried these has HEARD with their own EARS what the difference makes


----------



## PointyFox

Sigh...here we go again.



Currawong said:


> It's readily possible with some music, such as movie sound tracks to reach well over that, due to the large amount of sub-bass. The demands on an amp will be very dependent on the music. For example, 105 dB at 1kHz is painfully loud, but 105 dB at 20 Hz doesn't sound that loud at all, due to the way our hearing works.


The measurements already take into account how our hearing works. The decibel measurements are A-weighted.



> The smaller amps, such as the Heresy and Topping equivalents, will quickly distort in the bass frequencies as the volume increases. This is both audible, and people have measured it (not that you need to measure something that is blatantly audible). Likewise, with many headphones, as you turn the volume up, the soundstage sounds compressed, something you don't get in a $400 or above amp (and, as you go further up in amplifier quality, the impression of the sound being amplified at all begins to disappear).
> 
> If an amplifier has been designed primarily as a balanced amp, then performance from the SE outputs will not be as optimal as they will be from the balanced outputs. This has given rise to the false notion that "balanced is better" in general.


Making generalizations. Some Topping amps have more than enough power like the A90 and A90D, and some amps over $400 are garbage. 
Also some amps work just as well with SE as balanced.



> Why does anyone here have to prove their experiences? Is asking for something this impossible really not just trolling?


I'm not asking him to prove his experience. I'm asking him to prove me wrong. He cited his experience as evidence that I'm wrong by claiming to have superhuman auditory memory.


----------



## PointyFox (Aug 19, 2022)

Ultranifty said:


> Incorrect, The D90 is clean and punchy, but it's soundstage is small and somewhat thin sounding, like a wall of sound vs something that has layers/3D space.  The Bifrost 2 is better, some would say the Ares 2 is as well, although that's a tradeoff in a little bit of clarity.  If you mod the Ares 2 with the screw/cover mod and run it in OS mode/slow filter then even better.  Run a thick aftermarket power cable to it, and EVEN better.
> 
> Too many people treat MEASUREMENTS.....GASP.....as the pinnacle of what defines a great Dac/Amp.  Wrong, we measure with our ears, not our eyes.  You don't say a car is great based on it's specs, it's based on how it actually drives.
> 
> ...



Wow.

First of all what you're thinking is a bigger soundstage is actually distortion that gives that appearance.
More distortion doesn't mean the Bifrost 2 measures better.

All those people treat measurements....GASP....as the pinnacle of what defines a great DAC/amp because they actually do.
Measurements indicate how an amp performs, same with a car or any other product.
That's why we engineers make products to requirements, then test them by measuring them.
You say that you can't determine how something will perform based on its measurements....well, aren't the measurements its performance?
You say that we can't measure how a car drives, but we can, given enough measurements. Braking, cornering, steering, handling...if there is something a product can do, it can be measured.

Now you bring up the "insanity" of people using $4 IEC power cords.
Clearly you're hearing things that don't exist because there is no scientific explanation for what you claim.
Learn some basic electronics, because *you *sound like the insane one to anyone with a basic science education.


----------



## carlcamper (Aug 20, 2022)

PointyFox said:


> Wow.
> 
> First of all what you're thinking is a bigger soundstage is actually distortion that gives that appearance.
> More distortion doesn't mean the Bifrost 2 measures better.
> ...


Edited to stay out of it


----------



## PointyFox (Aug 20, 2022)

Shh. We don't use those sciency words here (better censor your post).
All it should take is reminding them that they're adding that 3 foot "hifi" power cable onto a hundred feet of regular wire inside their walls, then miles of cable outside their homes. What do they expect that little piece of overpriced wire to do?

Another thought experiment:  Digital multimeters, ammeters, voltmeters, oscilloscopes...
They're capable of measuring signals many thousands of times smaller than anything used in audio reproduction and are often calibrated.
Why then, do the manufacturers not recommend burn-in?
Why do they use cheap cables? Why doesn't "burn-in" affect them?


----------



## Pashmeister (Aug 20, 2022)

carlcamper said:


> Edited to stay out of it


Please do. I’ve used the ignore button and I do not know what’s going on but I have a very good idea that something toxic is happening around.

I do know that he comes back to ASR to post about how he’s bullied in Head-Fi, after calling “insanity” for not sharing his “science”. And after insistence that anything remotely sounding as an improvement to the A90 over another amp (bigger soundstage, better timbre, etc) can only ever be distortion that us plebs enjoy, and nothing else, because A90 is PERFECT.

His words @ ASR:

“_Head-Fi seems to be a gathering of a rare type of people who like the sound of distortion in their music.

To them (yes, they've used all these adjectives):

Lack of distortion = bright, sharp, fatiguing, cheap, painful, clinical, and sterile

Distortion = powerful, rich, euphonic, wide, musical, dancing, live, relaxing, syrupy, smooth, and authoritative

The moment anyone suggests they prefer distortion or dare say they like a flaw of the amplifier, they start by defending their own character "I'm a good guy because I think everyone is entitled to like whatever they want" then proceed to attack the character of the other person, calling them an "ASR fanboy", insinuating that measurements have made them blind to the truth, saying that they can't hear, or even that they're just trolling. They will then appeal to others on the forum for support, like "can you believe this troll?", "thank God for the ignore button, amirite?", "your posts belong on ASR, not here", "everyone just mute them", etc.”_

Hope you are still enjoying the hobby


----------



## theveterans

Currawong said:


> It's readily possible with some music, such as movie sound tracks to reach well over that, due to the large amount of sub-bass. The demands on an amp will be very dependent on the music. For example, 105 dB at 1kHz is painfully loud, but 105 dB at 20 Hz doesn't sound that loud at all, due to the way our hearing works.
> 
> The smaller amps, such as the Heresy and Topping equivalents, will quickly distort in the bass frequencies as the volume increases. This is both audible, and people have measured it (not that you need to measure something that is blatantly audible). Likewise, with many headphones, as you turn the volume up, the soundstage sounds compressed, something you don't get in a $400 or above amp (and, as you go further up in amplifier quality, the impression of the sound being amplified at all begins to disappear).
> 
> ...



Just the existence of this amp alone is pretty much catering to specific people who just validates everything sonically on the end-all-be-all analyzer. Pretty much everything that deviates from the sonics of this headphone amp and headphone amps that have less than -120 dBFS THD+N is considered distorted sound. Funnily enough, despite all the graphs and specs given, they missed the most critical spec that most manufacturers and especially pro-audio gears provide: *Input Impedance *(this issue arises when paired with some DACs or preamps that have high output impedance outside of standard 110 ohm (balanced) and 75 ohm for RCA


----------



## Arniesb

Ultranifty said:


> I've already put the thread back to the D90A, as you asked.  Or do more people need to get the last word in, for their egos?  Is it proper to criticize my behavior of derailing the thread while continuing to derail it as well yourself?  Everyone stop, further discussion should only be about the D90A.


Just responded to your message.
Back on A90D...
Im interseted in this as well cause of mainly increased crosstalk and better wolume control.
Liked A90 except soundstage, was looking for Violectric offerings, but since A90D improved Soundstage then this looks like a great deal. Plus It seems like no moving parts in construction will greatly improve durability.


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 20, 2022)

I truly believe Amir is trolling. We are in his experiment.

Edit: Who gave him the hype?

Joshua reviews a faulty product/topping a90d. Even that is great advertisement for Topping, because people will buy it anyway because Amir says so😂


----------



## Currawong (Aug 20, 2022)

PointyFox said:


> The measurements already take into account how our hearing works. The decibel measurements are A-weighted.


I never talked about A-weighting, nor even about the measurements!  My point is, regarding the power an amp has to put out, if a person listens to music with a large degree of low bass, the actual power output may be considerably higher than if listening to other types of music.  If you use A-weighted measurements, it wont show the _actual_ SPL, which is relevant when talking about _how much power an amp will need to drive the headphones.  _If anything, A-weighted measurements will be misleading in this case.


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 20, 2022)

Pop pop….said the little Top in the Single Ended pot


----------



## spw1880 (Aug 20, 2022)

You'all stop slinging mud at each other now. Relax its just a hobby don't have to prove any thing to anyone. discourse just robs the joy of trying new things in this hobby. I am listening to my A90D right now with my VO. Its quite excellent. I love my milo more still, but the a90d is fantastic performance. Dynamic, resolving, powerful and clean. And most importantly free of glare or harshness.


----------



## N0sferatu

Seeing this mudslinging back and forth reminds me why I mostly keep this hobby to myself over the last few years.  Used to be active on here but I just popped back on here recently because did some new shopping/upgrading. 

Waste of money using the mobo USB port... 
Using a $4 USB cable...
Bashing a $599 USD amp for not using snake oil cabling...when there's plenty of amps that cost 20x more for a 1.3x improvement in performance...

The bickering is ridiculous...just be happy there's tons of great products out there right now for the cost.  This wasn't the case when I first started this hobby.  At the end of the day, everyone's hearing is different when it comes to the level of scrutiny you guys go through.  When you get to that stand point it comes down to opinion and subjective adjectives of what you experience.  

This isn't my only hobby but the same rule applies.  You spend a little at the bottom end you get decent upgrades.  At some point you'll hit the point of diminishing returns real fast.  As I've gotten older, that's where I draw the line.  I'm not paying for micro improvements and potential snake oil products  For the money the A90/A90D delivers a lot.  There's tons of options out there.


----------



## Arniesb

N0sferatu said:


> Seeing this mudslinging back and forth reminds me why I mostly keep this hobby to myself over the last few years.  Used to be active on here but I just popped back on here recently because did some new shopping/upgrading.
> 
> Waste of money using the mobo USB port...
> Using a $4 USB cable...
> ...


Its funny cause  companies like Benchmark, Violectric, Chord Electronics dont use Expensive reclockers or Expensive cabling for their demos, yet some gurus come in and say: You cant get good results whitout stuff that barely makes a difference for majority.


----------



## ezduzit2500

Arniesb said:


> You obviously didnt heard good sub or good closed back headphones.
> Planars go deep they dont move much air at all.
> There isnt much of them that have tremendous bass.


_Patently false_, objectively speaking. The _only way _that a person could say that planars don't have good bass....is if said person is a _total basshead _- and even then most planars take EQ very excellently to be _basshead-friendly _HPs. Again, _most _planars do bass better than any other HP _type_. Take that to the bank.....



N0sferatu said:


> Thanks.  I have higher end speaker gear so I'm used to having good sound (Monitor Audio Platinum, Anthem AVR, Emotiva AMP, etc.).  I just never spent much on the AMP/DAC stuff before opting for cheaper stuff.  I'll start RCA because that's all I have.  I can quickly source XLR cabling but not quickly source an XLR cable for Arya unless you know of where.  I bought Periapt cable for Arya which I like (terminates to the usual plug) but they custom build them takes a month to get it.
> 
> As for the others commenting on bass and planar.  It's there on open back planar.  I owned both Denon D7000 and Fostex TH900 previously and those were known to be pretty bass heavy closed back headphones.  The Arya hits good.  It was a tad less than them however throw a little EQ at them and wow for open back do they slam good.  With that said, I sold all my other gear (at the time was Fostex and Sennheiser HD600).  I had both of those one for bass and one for open sound.  The Arya has good bass and open sound and for the money it really is the best bang for your buck headphone.  Audeze is also a great headphone player in that arena too.  I have no desire to move up the chain.  I've demoed my fair share of headphones and the only one I would consider over the Arya is the Stax SR009, however that's insanely expensive!  It's funny I like modern music and EDM and whatnot and jamming Armin on Stax I had some older dudes giving me a "huh" look as to why I'm not listening to the usual elevator type music!


I _was _going to suggest Periapt as a cheap - but good - option. There's also Apos Flow XLR HP cables that are ready-made/mass produced. It's on Apos' website. Yeah, agreed that most planars are known for having good bass over nearly all dynamics - it's in their wheelhouse and what they do very well as one of the _main benefits_ of planar topology - even planar speakers when given enough power.



N0sferatu said:


> Okay have a few hours under my belt.  I don't believe solid state stuff really needs a "break-in" but I'll leave it running for a few days just jamming Tidal on shuffle.
> With that said, I'll have to actual sit down and A&B it with my previous way cheaper rig ($220 all in D30+Schitt Heresey) but at the moment this sucker sings.  XLR I'm assuming is a ton more power as I'm on RCA now.  Most listening is 60-65 on the dial.  70 is getting loud, 75 is really loud, 80 for short bursts or this is stupid stupid loud.
> 
> This is unbalanced RCA outputs into a Hifiman Arya.  She definitely sings on this.  The Arya needs more than power as I sold an Audio-GD FUN when I bought the Arya.  It had volume but no life.  The Schitt Hersey gave it life.  So does the Topping A90D.
> ...


You're _scaring _me by having any liquid on the _same _tabletop and _nearby _your electronics. The very definition of _liquid death_, LOL!!!!



Currawong said:


> It's readily possible with some music, such as movie sound tracks to reach well over that, due to the large amount of sub-bass. The demands on an amp will be very dependent on the music. For example, 105 dB at 1kHz is painfully loud, but 105 dB at 20 Hz doesn't sound that loud at all, due to the way our hearing works.
> 
> The smaller amps, such as the Heresy and Topping equivalents, will quickly distort in the bass frequencies as the volume increases. This is both audible, and people have measured it (not that you need to measure something that is blatantly audible). Likewise, with many headphones, as you turn the volume up, the soundstage sounds compressed, something you don't get in a $400 or above amp (and, as you go further up in amplifier quality, the impression of the sound being amplified at all begins to disappear).
> 
> ...


I didn't want to _go there_ and start a back and forth with this person by disputing my personal experiences in allowing my gear to _play in _- trying to take a higher road, so to speak. Personal experiences don't play well with the local ASRers though, LOL.....


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

ezduzit2500 said:


> _Patently false_, objectively speaking. The _only way _that a person could say that planars don't have good bass....is if said person is a _total basshead _- and even then most planars take EQ very excellently to be _basshead-friendly _HPs. Again, _most _planars do bass better than any other HP _type_. Take that to the bank.....


I think that some people might get "bass" and "punch" mixed up or they use these words interchangeably. I remember that before I got into this hobby, I did not even realise that there was a difference between these two aspects of sound (one of those eye-opening moments that sucks you into this hobby).

I used to have the Hifiman Arya v2 (non-stealth) and Focal Clear and that pairing was great at showing the difference between deep bass with a rather "wispy" punch (Arya) and a hard punch with bass that tends to roll off a little towards the lowest octaves. The difference between my current headphones is far less drastic, but still different songs will benefit more from either of the two sound presentations.


----------



## ezduzit2500

Mista Lova Lova said:


> I think that some people might get "bass" and "punch" mixed up or they use these words interchangeably. I remember that before I got into this hobby, I did not even realise that there was a difference between these two aspects of sound (one of those eye-opening moments that sucks you into this hobby).
> 
> I used to have the Hifiman Arya v2 (non-stealth) and Focal Clear and that pairing was great at showing the difference between deep bass with a rather "wispy" punch (Arya) and a hard punch with bass that tends to roll off a little towards the lowest octaves. The difference between my current headphones is far less drastic, but still different songs will benefit more from either of the two sound presentations.


^^^^This^^^^. Good points. I remember when I first heard bass detail and _texture _- it was an ear-opening experience with the Arya v2. I now own the Stealths that have _texture _along with _depth _and a good amount of _punch/dynamics _too - an all-around great_ listening experience_, IMO. I'll be a problem no further.....


----------



## geoffalter11

Gavin C4 said:


> I guess this amp produce really nice sine waves. I enjoy listening to perfectly measured sine waves. Very nice and clean mono tone. I wonder how much better are the sound of sine waves produced by the A90 discrete compared to my Original A90 that is collecting dust on the shelf.


LMAO... That is awesome.  I love to listen to sine waves as well instead of music.  I love this post!!!!


----------



## Mista Lova Lova (Aug 23, 2022)

I have been comparing the A90 and the new A90D for quite a good while now. If anything, it's made me realise how much time is required for a good comparison as I went through phases of liking the new one better, then liking them both for different reasons before finally coming to the realisation that attempting to draw objective conclusions appears to be a nearly impossible task and the only thing that I can say with a high level of confidence is that they do genuinely sound different when added to my chain.

Subjectively speaking (bear in mind, I am not trying to convince anyone, just sharing my experience) - without the OG A90, the magic of my system is simply lost. They say it's all about the synergy and the magic I created between the Gustard X26 Pro and the A90 (first time since I had started this hobby) was just no longer there which felt like taking a step backwards. I fully appreciate that just because I perceive something to be X, Y o Z  doesn't mean that that's what is objectively happening. However, as some of us have certainly experienced for themselves, measurements do not seem to capture all aspects of sound (otherwise how come my Gustard sounds so different from the D90?) and there must be other factors at play, like transients etc. that affect our perception of it. Regardless, every time I spend more than 10 minutes with the A90D the following become obvious to me:


A90 has a touch of wamth added to it that the A90D does not have.
A90D has a slightly different tonality where somewhere in the region of upper-mids/treble things appear seemingly a bit cleaner, possibly slightly brighter. I was positively surprised at first; however, with time I found it makes things sound a little lean and analytical, especially because of the next point.
A90 has more body where individual sounds feel more physical, more believable, less thin-sounding.
I must say, however, that A90D's treble is probably a little cleaner, crispier sounding. It kinda reminds me of the HD800 syndrome which gives you that clean treble but at the cost of just too many trade-offs.
A90 might have a slightly smaller and/or less airy soundstage; however, it could just be my subjective perception of it due to the next point;
A90 seems to fill each void within the soundstage with black space, making sounds appear more "finite" (what Utopia does in comaprison to my HEKse, for instance) and as a result each sound appearing more like a separate event. The A90D, by contrast, has this omnipresent airiness, which the only way I can think of describing would be as "white/transparent" medium in contrast to the A90's blackness of the background. This is probably highly subjective and there might be a better way of describing this, but whenever I'm listening via the A90D I feel like I'm in a room without a roof, to paraphrase a famous song, whereas the A90 makes things slightly more intimate and finite-sounding. I was initially positively surprised by what the A90D was doing; however, I find myself prefering the A90's fullness to the A90D's omnipresence if that makes sense.
A90 seems to have a slightly more holographic/3D presentation of individual sounds where I find myself (especially with the Utopias) inside a given song, with sounds embracing me, appearing all around me and always having that tactility to them that sends shivers down my spine. While the A90D sounds way more 3D than my THX 789, it doesn't reach the same level of engagement in my chain as the A90 does - when I turn the volume up to see if that will help me get closer to music, I find myself experience the "wall of sound" effect which does not happen with the A90. I think it goes to show that it's not a matter of poor volume matching, but rather the sound presentations being different. I don't think that I would notice this on speakers, it's even less apparent on the HEKse, but the Utopia's depth makes such things easily distinguishable. And on the A90D my Utopia has lost a lot of its magic - I no longer felt like I was inside the recording, all of a sudden it was happening half a step in front of me, and that's what I have my HEKse for, or even the HD800. With the Utopia I want to be inside the song, participating instead of merely observing. The A90D has that HD800 effect on my Utopia where it seemingly makes the soundstage bigger but at the cost of taking away some of the holography and intimacy. Not a trade-off that I'm happy to accept.
There have been songs where that extra airiness of the A90D was welcome - almost never on the Utopia, but sometimes on the HEKse. But on far many more occasions I missed the A90's body/physicality/tactility. I found it mostly to be the case in bass presentation (it's sooo full on the A90, whereas it appeares tamer on the A90D) and vocals (going back and forth the difference was apparent - male vocals sounded real on the A90 and a little thin/flattened on the A90D).
This one is quite interesting for me - I found it easier to tell the difference between my two DACs (Gustard X26 Pro and D90) using the A90 than using the A90D. The A90 made it painfully obvious how big a jump in sound quality the Gustard is whereas with the A90D I had to listen for a while longer to hear those differences.
The above impressions are based on the assumption that neither of my two amps is a faulty unit (I have no reason to believe that) and are once again just my subjective opinions. I do, however, know my system very well, and I am also aware of the fact that my headphones are known for brutally revealing such seemingly small differences and that it is also possible that my hearing is sensitive to some frequencies which others might not be bothered by.

I got my partner to have a quick listen who rarely listens to music and who has absolutely no interest in this hobby - and she couldn't tell an immediate difference between the two amps, so I'm sure other people's mileage will vary here.

Whatever the actual differences are, as far as I am concerned, I now have enough empirical evidence to say that with the A90 I immediately get sucked into music and (finally!) stop analysing it or even immediately thinking about what the next upgrade is going to be (and that's a rare feat so I need to hold on to this feeling for as long as I can!) while with the A90D I am done after about 10-15 minutes (just not engaged anymore).

I hope that this helps someone make the right purchase for them. I'd be very curious to hear other people's opinions as some seem to have experienced almost the exact opposite of what I have.

EDIT

A90 on some tracks can sound more "inside your head"/intimate whereas the A90D seems to always present sounds further away from me. This adds to the perception of the former being a warm-ish amp whilst the latter being ultra-clean (and I guess more "correct" in terms of sheer transparency).
EDIT 2

Despite mostly preferring the OG A90 in terms of establishing a personal (and highly subjective) connection with music, the A90D's ultra transparency is quite addictive and I think I might miss it if I were to never hear it again, so I might end up keeping both amps for now... This is a crazy hobby!


----------



## PointyFox

Mista Lova Lova said:


> I have been comparing the A90 and the new A90D for quite a good while now. If anything, it's made me realise how much time is required for a good comparison as I went through phases of liking the new one better, then liking them both for different reasons before finally coming to the realisation that attempting to draw objective conclusions appears to be a nearly impossible task and the only thing that I can say with a high level of confidence is that they do genuinely sound different when added to my chain.
> 
> Subjectively speaking (bear in mind, I am not trying to convince anyone, just sharing my experience) - without the OG A90, the magic of my system is simply lost. They say it's all about the synergy and the magic I created between the Gustard X26 Pro and the A90 (first time since I had started this hobby) was just no longer there which felt like taking a step backwards. I fully appreciate that just because I perceive something to be X, Y o Z  doesn't mean that that's what is objectively happening. However, as some of us have certainly experienced for themselves, measurements do not seem to capture all aspects of sound (otherwise how come my Gustard sounds so different from the D90?) and there must be other factors at play, like transients etc. that affect our perception of it. Regardless, every time I spend more than 10 minutes with the A90D the following become obvious to me:
> 
> ...


I recommend investing like $15-$20 into getting an audio switch and about $20 for a sound meter so you can switch instantly between the two amps after volume matching with the meter. You will probably find they sound completely identical.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

PointyFox said:


> I recommend investing like $15-$20 into getting an audio switch and about $20 for a sound meter so you can switch instantly between the two amps after volume matching with the meter. You will probably find they sound completely identical.


I am confident in saying that all the aforementioned three amps sound different (just like all the DACs I've had clearly sound different) but like I've said, I'm not here to convince anyone, just sharing my experience. Before I bought the Utopia I couldn't even tell the difference between Roon and streaming directly from Tidal. Utopia made it immediately obvious.


----------



## John Massaria

this just dropped 3 hrs ago- seems like Zeos likes it a lot- a real lot... so between him and audioscience specs its probably worth a look again at least


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 22, 2022)

But how is the Quality Control and did they solve the SE pop?

Its weird people are willing to take the risk with expensive headphones.

EDIT: How much did Topping pay Z?


----------



## Allan5512

Has anyone tried it with the LCD 5? I'm thinking about getting the Ferrum stack, but if a $500 unit can be as good as some says, and not sure how better the ferrums are compare to the A90D? Appreciates your opinions!


----------



## Allan5512

H


HONEYBOY said:


> Just got the A90 Discrete and I have to say it's doing a stellar job with the Sennheiser HD6XX. I don't think I've heard them sound any better. Clears up the vocals really nicely with excellent bass. This is also super silent with my IEMs: IER-Z1R, U12T and the IE900. Nice looking unit too.


How do you compare it with the Ferrum stack of yours? Have you tried it with an LCD 5? Would you recommend the A90D over something as expensive as the Ferrum stack? Thank you in advance!


----------



## Allan5512

Currawong said:


> In those cases, it's usually harshness/brightness that is mistaken for detail.  When I refer to detail, it is things such as being able to hear the reverberations in strings during note decay, or the reflections of sound inside the recording venue.  The ability to resolve these things isn't related to SINAD, which is just a measure of a single sine wave when the amp (or device) is just driving the analyser, and not headphones. You can, for example, have high harmonic distortion and still hear micro details in the music.
> 
> What's arguably more important is the crosstalk graph and IMD (unpleasant-sounding distortion) graphs. Note that they are often missing! The IMD of amps in this range is most often much higher than the THD from what I've seen.
> 
> I'll get into the specifics of what I hear with music from the A90 Discrete in the review. For $600 it seems to be good value.


Hi. I hope you will mention if the A90D is good with the LCD 5 or not in your upcoming review. Thanks, a subscriber!


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

John Massaria said:


> this just dropped 3 hrs ago- seems like Zeos likes it a lot- a real lot... so between him and audioscience specs its probably worth a look again at least



Hehe, if even Zeos can hear a difference, then surely there must be one.  (From what I remember he's famous for saying all DACs sound the same etc).

Like I've said in my previous posts, it's an ultra-clean sounding amp and just because it doesn't seem to be a good match for my system doesn't mean it will not be exactly what someone else needs for theirs. All I know for certain is that it sounds different than the OG.


----------



## John Massaria

Mista Lova Lova said:


> Hehe, if even Zeos can hear a difference, then surely there must be one.  (From what I remember he's famous for saying all DACs sound the same etc).
> 
> Like I've said in my previous posts, it's an ultra-clean sounding amp and just because it doesn't seem to be a good match for my system doesn't mean it will not be exactly what someone else needs for theirs. All I know for certain is that it sounds different than the OG.


I had the a90 and I sold it then latter bought another then sold it - I kept preferring my RS Apache with new upgrades - I tried to love it


----------



## Mista Lova Lova (Aug 22, 2022)

John Massaria said:


> I had the a90 and I sold it then latter bought another then sold it - I kept preferring my RS Apache with new upgrades - I tried to love it


I have only ever had the A90, A90D and THX 789 (excluding my Asus Essence STX II sound card) and I'm very curious about how things like the Ferrum Oor or Trafomatic Head 2 sound. I've just not reached the stage yet where I would be prepared to drop so much money without being reasonably certain that it would be a good addition to my system. It seems that the A90/A90D is pretty much as good as it gets in terms of what they call "neutral" sound signature (apparently they sound just as good as the Benchmark HPA4) so it would seem that any pricier amps, like the two above, simply add their own "sauce" to the music and it's a matter of preference what type of sound presentation one finds more pleasing.

Why did you decide to buy another A90 before eventually selling it too? Did you find your new purchase missing something that from memory you thought the A90 had?


----------



## John Massaria

Mista Lova Lova said:


> I have only ever had the A90, A90D and THX 789 (excluding my Asus Essence STX II sound card) and I'm very curious about how things like the Ferrum Oor or Trafomatic Head 2 sound. I've just not reached the stage yet where I would be prepared to drop so much money without being reasonably certain that it would be a good addition to my system. It seems that the A90/A90D is pretty much as good as it gets in terms of what they call "neutral" sound signature (apparently they sound just as good as the Benchmark HPA4) so it would seem that any pricier amps, like the two above, simply add their own "sauce" to the music and it's a matter of preference what type of sound presentation one finds more pleasing.
> 
> Why did you decide to buy another A90 before eventually selling it too? Did you find your new purchase missing something that from memory you thought the A90 had?


Yea that’s it exactly I thought oil owed it another chance and I don’t regret the re-try 
Our hobby is like that I know and second chances are always welcome by open minds I think it’s a good policy


----------



## Arniesb

Mista Lova Lova said:


> I have been comparing the A90 and the new A90D for quite a good while now. If anything, it's made me realise how much time is required for a good comparison as I went through phases of liking the new one better, then liking them both for different reasons before finally coming to the realisation that attempting to draw objective conclusions appears to be a nearly impossible task and the only thing that I can say with a high level of confidence is that they do genuinely sound different when added to my chain.
> 
> Subjectively speaking (bear in mind, I am not trying to convince anyone, just sharing my experience) - without the OG A90, the magic of my system is simply lost. They say it's all about the synergy and the magic I created between the Gustard X26 Pro and the A90 (first time since I had started this hobby) was just no longer there which felt like taking a step backwards. I fully appreciate that just because I perceive something to be X, Y o Z  doesn't mean that that's what is objectively happening. However, as some of us have certainly experienced for themselves, measurements do not seem to capture all aspects of sound (otherwise how come my Gustard sounds so different from the D90?) and there must be other factors at play, like transients etc. that affect our perception of it. Regardless, every time I spend more than 10 minutes with the A90D the following become obvious to me:
> 
> ...


New A90 have better crosstalk, better volume control.
Inreased Crosstalk means more separation, more air, more detail and when you have super detailed headphones you gonna hear more details and air than from OG A90.
There is a reason why Benchmark hpa4 sounded better than any other good measurement amps, Crosstalk is phenomenal in Benchmark and i dont know if its because of over engineered wolume control or something in the circuitry.


----------



## OCC7N

Z is literally saying the A90D is atleast as good as the fidelice!

....is he a sellout? ... or can someone confirm?

...sometimes I just wanna buy it just to see if Z is a sellout, but I don´t have any highend amp to compare

So anybody with fidelice or other highend stuff that can confirm Zs words?


----------



## Another Audiophile (Aug 23, 2022)

carlcamper said:


> Ordered one, can't wait!


Great looking, amazing specs, amazing measurements but broken with rushed out productions and major shortfalls in design. Looks like they can measure SINAD but not if a device is poorly designed. This is another example, with many other from the past, why I wouldn't buy a topping product. They measure well but you never know if it will blow up your headphones (Topping L30)...


----------



## Currawong

Arniesb said:


> Inreased Crosstalk means more separation, more air, more detail and when you have super detailed headphones you gonna hear more details and air than from OG A90.


Ummm, no. I think you meant to say "lower crosstalk". Regardless, crosstalk has nothing to do with how well an amp can reproduce detail.  It only affects how we perceive the soundstage, as far as one can with headphones. 


OCC7N said:


> Z is literally saying the A90D is atleast as good as the fidelice!


It's z reviews....


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 23, 2022)

Currawong said:


> Ummm, no. I think you meant to say "lower crosstalk". Regardless, crosstalk has nothing to do with how well an amp can reproduce detail.  It only affects how we perceive the soundstage, as far as one can with headphones.
> 
> It's z reviews....


Would you say AUDIO-GD has better QC and also better sound than Topping in general?

I have seen couple of reviews where you have a audio-gd on the shelf 

EDIT: I just saw AUDIO-GD had 10 year warranty!!!


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

Arniesb said:


> New A90 have better crosstalk, better volume control.
> Inreased Crosstalk means more separation, more air, more detail and when you have super detailed headphones you gonna hear more details and air than from OG A90.
> There is a reason why Benchmark hpa4 sounded better than any other good measurement amps, Crosstalk is phenomenal in Benchmark and i dont know if its because of over engineered wolume control or something in the circuitry.


I think you're making good points here (I take it you mean "lower crosstalk"). My subjective preferences aside, the A90D definitely sounds more "outside my head" and airier, it would make sense that it's due to the improved crosstalk. I would make an educated guess that the use of discrete components has resulted in the cleaner/clearer tonality (something similar to what I've experienced in my fully discrete DAC). I think that one of the reasons why I enjoyed the OG so much was that its warmth was masking the tonal issues of my headphones which the new amp does not seem to be doing. So, I guess one could say that I'm hearing my headphones' true tonality for the first time. This would of course lead to the conclusion that the A90D is technically a superior amplifier, taking "neutral amplification" to another level compared to the OG.


----------



## theveterans (Aug 23, 2022)

Mista Lova Lova said:


> I think you're making good points here (I take it you mean "lower crosstalk"). My subjective preferences aside, the A90D definitely sounds more "outside my head" and airier, it would make sense that it's due to the improved crosstalk. I would make an educated guess that the use of discrete components has resulted in the cleaner/clearer tonality (something similar to what I've experienced in my fully discrete DAC). I think that one of the reasons why I enjoyed the OG so much was that its warmth was masking the tonal issues of my headphones which the new amp does not seem to be doing. So, I guess one could say that I'm hearing my headphones' true tonality for the first time. This would of course lead to the conclusion that the A90D is technically a superior amplifier, taking "neutral amplification" to another level compared to the OG.



Even if you have crappy crosstalk (I’m referring to tube amps), distortion profile from my tube headphone amp can also affect the soundstage and airiness of the sound (wider, more holographic and larger sense of space and air). Those who mentions tubes roll-off treble and air have never heard a GEC KT88 based tube headphone amp with 30W/channel output transformers before


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

theveterans said:


> Even if you have crappy crosstalk (I’m referring to tube amps), distortion profile from my tube headphone amp can also affect the soundstage and airiness of the sound (wider, more holographic and larger sense of space and air). Those who mentions tubes roll-off treble and air have never heard a GEC KT88 based tube headphone amp with 30W/channel output transformers before


Thanks for that info, I've never heard a tube amp and I can't wait to get my hands on one in future.

Would it be fair to say that these are slightly different scenarios in that tube amps by definition add something to the sound ("euphonic distortion"?) so a bigger stage is more easily achievable due to having more leeway to play with the sound? Whereas something like the A90D strives to stay true to the signal/"neutral"?


----------



## Arniesb

Currawong said:


> Ummm, no. I think you meant to say "lower crosstalk". Regardless, crosstalk has nothing to do with how well an amp can reproduce detail.  It only affects how we perceive the soundstage, as far as one can with headphones.
> 
> It's z reviews....


Dont agree at all. Why then many amps sound more detailed, wider, airier and resolving on balanced output?
Details dont mash together when you have great crosstalk numbers.


----------



## theveterans (Aug 23, 2022)

Mista Lova Lova said:


> Thanks for that info, I've never heard a tube amp and I can't wait to get my hands on one in future.
> 
> Would it be fair to say that these are slightly different scenarios in that tube amps by definition add something to the sound ("euphonic distortion"?) so a bigger stage is more easily achievable due to having more leeway to play with the sound? Whereas something like the A90D strives to stay true to the signal/"neutral"?



Tubes is a much deeper rabbit hole so treat it as a hobby and not to truly reveal how a headphone should sound. How wide sounding, euphonic etc a tube sound clearly depends on the tube topology.

In my experience, OTL tube amps have the most euphonic distortion since the signal travels through a very simple circuit and the tubes are involved the most out of this topology. The downside of this is that since tubes are voltage driven sources, OTL are generally good for high impedance HPs like ZMFs, Beyers, HD600/650/800 and not planars.

The tube amps that have plenty of current and voltage in spades but have less euphonic tonality though just as wide sounding as OTL have a topology called “Single Ended Triode, Output Transformer Coupled”. The transformers couple voltage and impedance as well as provide current for inefficient and low impedance planar like the DCA Stealth and Susvara. Likewise, SET amps are also excellent for high impedance headphones because of the transformers being coupled for high impedance taps. What I run for my DCA Aeon X open is a SET amp (Ampsandsound Forge) with 32 ohm impedance output tap and I can also run HD800S and ZMFs with its 300 ohm impedance output tap. The very best SET amps have multiple outputs ranging from 8 ohm, 16 ohm, 32 ohm, 100ohm and 300ohm so you can run use any headphones out there except for sensitive IEMs.

The final topology is Push Pull Transformer coupled e.g. Woo Audio WA33 amp. This topology can be configured for fully balanced signal while SET tube amp is strictly unbalanced. These are the most solid stage sounding tube amps since tubes are much less involved in this topology and more transformers and more negative feedback are required to keep this topology stable. Negative feedback improves SNR and contributes to a more traditional solid state sound while SET and OTL amps can be run with zero feedback on the inputs and all the way down prior to final output and still be stable

One last thing are hybrid amps and these are even more solid-state like sound due to whole gain stage being solid state. They have lots of feedback and will typically measure best on the analyzer relative to the other tube amp topology (just look at schiit saga measurements)


----------



## Random Lunatic

ezduzit2500 said:


> _Patently false_, objectively speaking. The _only way _that a person could say that planars don't have good bass....is if said person is a _total basshead _- and even then most planars take EQ very excellently to be _basshead-friendly _HPs. Again, _most _planars do bass better than any other HP _type_. Take that to the bank.....


Could we keep things civil, not start throwing around ad hominem, but rather target the argument, not the person making it - its not really useful to anyone involved, and just clogs the thread?
Also, not use "objective" where it isn't appropriate? Most people prefer bass elevated by about 5dB on average as per Harman's research, and currently more or less the only planar to meet that target is the DCA Stealth. Most are 5-10dB below that target - so people finding planars on average lacking in quantity should come as no surprise.
Incidentally DCA is conversely one of the more extreme examples of the other common property or issue with planars, that being a perceived lacking sense of dynamics, similar but less extreme to electrostats (planars being somewhat like an electrodynamic version of electrostatic membrane drivers), comparatively speaking to dynamic driver units such as Focal or Fostex.
Most if not all planars excibit some combination of these leading to some not finding their bass engaging enough.

Where planars excel in terms of bass is their speed, texturing and resolution - often lending to the perceived dry and precise bass. Which naturally some prefer in high end audio - its just important to realize it has its tradeoffs.

My 2 cents at least. Cheers.


----------



## Random Lunatic

Arniesb said:


> Dont agree at all. Why then many amps sound more detailed, wider, airier and resolving on balanced output?
> Details dont mash together when you have great crosstalk numbers.


The most likely explanation, without pulling out the old placebo card, would be the issue seen with fx. Cavalli's recent amps, where the amplifier is actually designed with balanced operation in mind, and the single ended output was added more as a convenience factor, but not optimized. 
An amp built this way will give that impression, for which reason I honestly thing they might have been better off leaving out the SE output entirely, to avoid confusion.
Those cases aside balanced outputs don't offer any major sonic benefits unless your cables are long and in extraordinarily noisy environments (like pro audio) or you need extra power.


----------



## Random Lunatic

OCC7N said:


> Z is literally saying the A90D is atleast as good as the fidelice!
> 
> ....is he a sellout? ... or can someone confirm?
> 
> ...


It certainly measures well enough - but doesn't seem like there are many of these amps out in the wild yet. I've been scouring for other less rambunctious impressions


----------



## XERO1 (Aug 23, 2022)

OCC7N said:


> Z is literally saying the A90D is atleast as good as the fidelice!
> 
> ....is he a sellout? ... or can someone confirm?
> 
> ...


Z is completely full of schiit, IMO. He ranted and raved about how great the Rode NTH-100 headphones were. I decided to give them a try and they sounded like total dogschiit to me.

Just my very biased opinion, of course. YMMV (maybe a _little_ bit).


----------



## skhan007

I'm really intrigued by this amp and keep wondering about this and the Benchmark HPA4 as TOTL solid state amps. 

My current solid state amp is my RME ADI2 DAC and I'm really wondering if the Topping would be a step up vs. my built-in amp in my RME.


----------



## OCC7N

XERO1 said:


> Z is completely full of schiit, IMO. He he ranted and raved about how great the Rode NTH-100 headphones were. I decide to give them a try and they sounded like total dogschiit to me.
> 
> Just my very biased opinion, of course. YMMV (maybe a _little_ bit).


I wish anybody with fidelice and topping a90d could confirm his a sellout. Not that Im gonna buy the a90d. I just cant handle return/refunds(poor QC) I rather wait and save money for some real quality amp


----------



## Benno1988

Currawong said:


> It's z reviews....


Shots fired


----------



## XERO1

Currawong said:


> It's z reviews....



Exactly.


----------



## Benno1988

XERO1 said:


> Exactly.


Thhhhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeese.


----------



## N0sferatu (Aug 23, 2022)

So I had quite the wild ride with this A90D...

12 hours into ownership I'm jamming away and I go hmm...don't remember this track being so right-sided.  Volume also dropped out hard.  99% on the volume and not even remotely loud.  Barely a normal listening level.  Yup!  A90D took a dump.  No "pop" no abnormal pitched noise.  Just left channel died on my Arya and volume dropped out mid track.  It broke the left driver in my Arya on the single-ended unbalanced output.  Zero audio output on my Arya.  Tried swapping cables around, different amp, etc.  Dead.  What kind of recourse you think I have with Topping?  You think they'll tell me to shove it or you think they'll try to compensate me for destroying my Arya in less than 12 hours of ownership?  I'm out of warranty and had to pay Hifiman for a replacement (with shipping in my busted Arya).

Vendor definitely went "above and beyond" to try and right the ship the best they could.  They offered replace vs return.  I figured replace.  I have the new A90D with the broken one still on my desk (it's going back tomorrow).  Very trustworthy vendor to send a second one out without receiving broken product and without additional funds placed on hold.  They also gave me a killer price on a new pair of headphones so I picked up the Focal Clear Mg.  Breaking them in and using the XLR pathway on these.  So here is A90D #2 with a pair of Focal Clear Mg while my Arya on a UPS truck back to Hifiman.


----------



## carlcamper

N0sferatu said:


> So I had quite the wild ride with this A90D...
> 
> 12 hours into ownership I'm jamming away and I go hmm...don't remember this track being so right-sided.  Volume also dropped out hard.  99% on the volume and not even remotely loud.  Barely a normal listening level.  Yup!  A90D took a dump.  No "pop" no abnormal pitched noise.  Just left channel died on my Arya and volume dropped out mid track.  It broke the left driver in my Arya on the single-ended unbalanced output.  Zero audio output on my Arya.  Tried swapping cables around, different amp, etc.  Dead.  What kind of recourse you think I have with Topping?  You think they'll tell me to shove it or you think they'll try to compensate me for destroying my Arya in less than 12 hours of ownership?  I'm out of warranty and had to pay Hifiman for a replacement (with shipping in my busted Arya).
> 
> Vendor definitely went "above and beyond" to try and right the ship the best they could.  They offered replace vs return.  I figured replace.  I have the new A90D with the broken one still on my desk (it's going back tomorrow).  Very trustworthy vendor to send a second one out without receiving broken product and without additional funds placed on hold.  They also gave me a killer price on a new pair of headphones so I picked up the Focal Clear Mg.  Breaking them in and using the XLR pathway on these.  So here is A90D #2 with a pair of Focal Clear Mg while my Arya on a UPS truck back to Hifiman.


Sad to hear your experience. I advise updating the firmware immediately to V2.4 to mitigate the popping/restarting issue just to be sure: https://www.topping.audio/newsinfo/686950.html


----------



## N0sferatu

carlcamper said:


> Sad to hear your experience. I advise updating the firmware immediately to V2.4 to mitigate the popping/restarting issue just to be sure: https://www.topping.audio/newsinfo/686950.html



I was on 2.4 when it took a crap on me.  Both the 1st and 2nd unit came on V2.3.  I'm on 2.4 on the current one however since Focal Clear Mg come with XLR cable I'm running balanced.  Holy crap is balanced loud.  44% more than sufficient volume.


----------



## N0sferatu

ezduzit2500 said:


> I _was _going to suggest Periapt as a cheap - but good - option. There's also Apos Flow XLR HP cables that are ready-made/mass produced. It's on Apos' website. Yeah, agreed that most planars are known for having good bass over nearly all dynamics - it's in their wheelhouse and what they do very well as one of the _main benefits_ of planar topology - even planar speakers when given enough power.
> 
> 
> You're _scaring _me by having any liquid on the _same _tabletop and _nearby _your electronics. The very definition of _liquid death_, LOL!!!!



I'll check out the other vendor you mentioned.  Although my Arya are broke now thanks to this amp (just scroll up a post or two to read about that).  As for the drinks, yeah the more alcohol, the more prone to spilling lol.  Nothing like some wine (or whiskey) and sitting back and enjoy.  I don't bother with critical listening.  Life's too short.  I just want to be taken elsewhere with the alcohol and the music!


----------



## XLR2XLR

I'm very impressed by the Topping stack: U90->D90LE->A90D. It's precise, powerful, and musical. The A90D has enough juice to make the Susvara sing. I never wanted to EQ this chain with these headphones. A90D is a great solid state amp for its price. I definitely cannot call it "flat-sounding, overly-analytical or lifeless". A very enjoyable experience!


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

XLR2XLR said:


> I'm very impressed by the Topping stack: U90->D90LE->A90D. It's precise, powerful, and musical. The A90D has enough juice to make the Susvara sing. I never wanted to EQ this chain with these headphones. A90D is a great solid state amp for its price. I definitely cannot call it "flat-sounding, overly-analytical or lifeless". A very enjoyable experience!


Wow, that's high praise if it's the Susvara that you're judging the system through. Out of curiosity - what other amps have you tried with the Susvara and which one is your favourite?


----------



## borkenarrou

Order placed, now which DAC will go best with this, options I am currently thinking of D90 / Denafrips Ares II?

Will be great to have some opinions or experiences.


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

borkenarrou said:


> Order placed, now which DAC will go best with this, options I am currently thinking of D90 / Denafrips Ares II?
> 
> Will be great to have some opinions or experiences.


Have a look at my post/review here. I hope that it's of some use to you.


----------



## XLR2XLR

Mista Lova Lova said:


> Wow, that's high praise if it's the Susvara that you're judging the system through. Out of curiosity - what other amps have you tried with the Susvara and which one is your favourite?


I've tried the Susvara with all the amps you see in my signature. Most of them are not powerful enough to make these headphones perform properly. As of now, my favorite amps for the Susvara are the McIntosh MHA200, Flux Volot, and the A90D is not far behind those two.


----------



## borkenarrou

Mista Lova Lova said:


> Have a look at my post/review here. I hope that it's of some use to you.


Thanks!


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

borkenarrou said:


> Thanks!


Forgot to mention it's a "review" of my Gustard X26 Pro but both of the DACs you mentioned are briefly described in it, too. I still have the D90 and I have a decent recollection of what the Ares II was like, so just send me a private message if you have any specific questions (don't want to litter this thread).


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

XLR2XLR said:


> I've tried the Susvara with all the amps you see in my signature. Most of them are not powerful enough to make these headphones perform properly. As of now, my favorite amps for the Susvara are the McIntosh MHA200, Flux Volot, and the A90D is not far behind those two.


You seem to have some fantastic gear at your disposal. And it's interesting to know that you think the A90D is not far behind.

Have you thought about upgrading your DAC? I used to be a non-believer but each of the DACs I've had (D90, Ares II, Gustard) has sounded different with the current one being a clear step above the other two. With headphones like yours and the rest of the gear I'm certain that your Susvara is not being allowed to spread its wings fully due to the DAC.


----------



## borkenarrou

Mista Lova Lova said:


> Forgot to mention it's a "review" of my Gustard X26 Pro but both of the DACs you mentioned are briefly described in it, too. I still have the D90 and I have a decent recollection of what the Ares II was like, so just send me a private message if you have any specific questions (don't want to litter this thread).


Sure, X26 seems interesting, bit out of my target range, but will still keep it as an option.


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 24, 2022)

N0sferatu said:


> So I had quite the wild ride with this A90D...
> 
> 12 hours into ownership I'm jamming away and I go hmm...don't remember this track being so right-sided.  Volume also dropped out hard.  99% on the volume and not even remotely loud.  Barely a normal listening level.  Yup!  A90D took a dump.  No "pop" no abnormal pitched noise.  Just left channel died on my Arya and volume dropped out mid track.  It broke the left driver in my Arya on the single-ended unbalanced output.  Zero audio output on my Arya.  Tried swapping cables around, different amp, etc.  Dead.  What kind of recourse you think I have with Topping?  You think they'll tell me to shove it or you think they'll try to compensate me for destroying my Arya in less than 12 hours of ownership?  I'm out of warranty and had to pay Hifiman for a replacement (with shipping in my busted Arya).
> 
> Vendor definitely went "above and beyond" to try and right the ship the best they could.  They offered replace vs return.  I figured replace.  I have the new A90D with the broken one still on my desk (it's going back tomorrow).  Very trustworthy vendor to send a second one out without receiving broken product and without additional funds placed on hold.  They also gave me a killer price on a new pair of headphones so I picked up the Focal Clear Mg.  Breaking them in and using the XLR pathway on these.  So here is A90D #2 with a pair of Focal Clear Mg while my Arya on a UPS truck back to Hifiman.


Wait a minute. The A90D destroyed your headphones and you are still willing to buy there crap(topping) just because your dealer gaved you a good price on the focal.

I understand why no dealers I know have sells topping. I seriously cant believe that you are still “willing” to take the risk to damage your Focals.

No offense but I dont get it.


----------



## AlephAlpha001

borkenarrou said:


> Order placed, now which DAC will go best with this, options I am currently thinking of D90 / Denafrips Ares II?
> 
> Will be great to have some opinions or experiences.


IIRC The Ares II with its unbuffered outputs could run into issues with the unusually low input impedances on the A90, A90D, P90 -- even more so if you use a balanced hookup.

IMHO the Ares 2 and Singxer SA-1 (appropriately matched higher Zin) make a nice pairing, but that's another story.

D90 or RME ADI-2 FS would do nicely with an A90D -- I've got both paired with an A90 each and no complaints at all.


----------



## N0sferatu

OCC7N said:


> Wait a minute. The A90D destroyed your headphones and you are still willing to buy there crap(topping) just because your dealer gaved you a good price on the focal.
> 
> I understand why no dealers I know have sells topping. I seriously cant believe that you are still “willing” to take the risk to damage your Focals.
> 
> No offense but I dont get it.



My hand wasn't forced. I had option to do everything I did and get something else. I'll return it if it fails again. All of it. I'm not going to let one failure ruin the entire experience. This amp still sounds stellar.


----------



## PointyFox

I updated to 2.4 and it now prevents the A90 from restarting when I plug in/unplug a SE connector, but I still get the pop and "-2" error.
I'm trying to get a replacement through Apos but they seem to want to charge me for shipping out the replacement.


----------



## XLR2XLR

Mista Lova Lova said:


> You seem to have some fantastic gear at your disposal. And it's interesting to know that you think the A90D is not far behind.
> 
> Have you thought about upgrading your DAC? I used to be a non-believer but each of the DACs I've had (D90, Ares II, Gustard) has sounded different with the current one being a clear step above the other two. With headphones like yours and the rest of the gear I'm certain that your Susvara is not being allowed to spread its wings fully due to the DAC.


I've owned an Yggy A2, Pontus II, Hugo TT2, and X26 PRO. I quit chasing DACs after I could conduct volume-matched A/B tests. IMO all properly-designed DACs sound the same. I prefer to play with flavors by trying different amps, tubes, and headphones.


----------



## OCC7N

XLR2XLR said:


> I've owned an Yggy A2, Pontus II, Hugo TT2, and X26 PRO. I quit chasing DACs after I could conduct volume-matched A/B tests. IMO all properly-designed DACs sound the same. I prefer to play with flavors by trying different amps, tubes, and headphones.


Listen to the drum and you will eventually find the difference


----------



## OCC7N

N0sferatu said:


> My hand wasn't forced. I had option to do everything I did and get something else. I'll return it if it fails again. All of it. I'm not going to let one failure ruin the entire experience. This amp still sounds stellar.


If my local dealer sold me a wellknown-for-bad-QC product. They would never give me good deals on anything, because my dealer would tell me its my own responsibility if anything happened. I would not even ask for anything because I know it might happen(60%) But hey! your dealer must have a good heart. You lucky.


----------



## ClicketEKlack

OCC7N said:


> Listen to the drum and you will eventually find the difference


Eventually? Why bother? If one can be as happy with a $700 D90 as one would with a $6,000 TT2, isn't that a huge win?


----------



## PointyFox (Aug 24, 2022)

ClicketEKlack said:


> Eventually? Why bother? If one can be as happy with a $700 D90 as one would with a $6,000 TT2, isn't that a huge win?



If there IS an audible difference, the D90 should objectively be better. A certain scientific review-y place measured the TT2 yesterday. Performance puts it around the $300-400 mark. I don't think the wonky interface or aesthetics are worth the premium.


----------



## PointyFox

OCC7N said:


> If my local dealer sold me a wellknown-for-bad-QC product. They would never give me good deals on anything, because my dealer would tell me its my own responsibility if anything happened. I would not even ask for anything because I know it might happen(60%) But hey! your dealer must have a good heart. You lucky.


"The garbage I sold you doesn't work? Too bad. It's your fault for buying it."

I don't think that's even legal unless they have a disclaimer warning that it's garbage and is being sold as-is.


----------



## OCC7N

PointyFox said:


> "The garbage I sold you doesn't work? Too bad. It's your fault for buying it."
> 
> I don't think that's even legal unless they have a disclaimer warning that it's garbage and is being sold as-is.


My rme adi2 measures way better than TT2. But it sounds like crap next to TT2. How you gonna say measurements counts when it doesnt…unless you believe in numbers and not your ears


----------



## PointyFox (Aug 24, 2022)

OCC7N said:


> My rme adi2 measures way better than TT2. But it aounds like crap next to TT2. How you gonna say measurements counts when it doesnt…unless you believe in numbers and not your ears



Unfortunately most people here are trying to conduct scientific experiments without knowing the first thing on how to conduct a proper test and that produces invalid results.
And that's not to mention how variable and limited our biology is compared to proper test equipment.
If someone got a job testing the audio of a product and just used their ears they'd be fired and laughed out of the building.  Unless of course if they were designing overpriced boutique hifi products. Then no one would question them or care how their products measure.


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 24, 2022)

PointyFox said:


> Unfortunately most people here are trying to conduct scientific experiments without knowing the first thing on how to conduct a proper test and that produces invalid results.
> And that's not to mention how variable and limited our biology is compared to proper test equipment.
> If someone got a job testing the audio of a product and just used their ears they'd be fired and laughed out of the building.


I dont care who the customers, are. People that buy cheap crap and blow there expenisive headphones asks for it

EDIT: I am not a saint, I also look for cheaper alternatives. I iust bought a audio-gd master 9


----------



## PointyFox

OCC7N said:


> I dont care who the customers, are. People that buy cheap crap and blow there expenisive headphones asks for it


Can you do us a favor and let us know if you own a company so we can avoid it?


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 24, 2022)

PointyFox said:


> Can you do us a favor and let us know if you own a company so we can avoid it


I wish I was. I would only sell topping to damage all your headphones so I could sell you new ones for full price

Good business

Like I said before I dont have money right now for amp so I bought audio-gd. Which also had a bad rep, but it looks like they fixed the issues, and actually starts to sell and are well respected.

But hey Im just curios how people can afford expensive headphones and not just buy something decent.

But Joshua receiving a newly released products that faulty in HIS review! and people are having the same problems now.

Its like speaking to deaf ears. The zombi apocalypse is here


----------



## wazzupi

XLR2XLR said:


> I've owned an Yggy A2, Pontus II, Hugo TT2, and X26 PRO. I quit chasing DACs after I could conduct volume-matched A/B tests. IMO all properly-designed DACs sound the same. I prefer to play with flavors by trying different amps, tubes, and headphones.


I have the similar experience with SS amps which is why I went tube amp route with the Cayin HA-300 I also owned a Glenn otl tube amp which was great but I sold it because it had a really annoying noise issue I I couldn’t figure out… I also had a driver tube break surprisingly nothing happened to my headphone but it was like 200 bucks gone. Only real noticeable difference for me was warm vs lean with SS amps.


----------



## theveterans (Aug 24, 2022)

OCC7N said:


> But hey Im just curios how people can afford expensive headphones and not just buy something decent.



Easy. They want to hear the ultra transparent (according to AP555B) chain with the headphone that has the lowest distortion yet on the market (DCA stealth). To their minds, the Topping gear is the very best according to AP555B, and it is idiotic to pair that ultra low distortion Stealth or even the Aeon (any version) (their distortion performance is also on the top of the rankings as well) with distortion generator amps and DACs like R2R (except for Holo Audio May KTE) and tubes. The mister clean setup provides them audio nirvana while for others it’s discrete DACs and Tube amps


----------



## OCC7N

theveterans said:


> Easy. They want to hear the ultra transparent (according to AP555B) chain with the headphone that has the lowest distortion yet on the market (DCA stealth). To their minds, the Topping gear is the very best according to AP555B, and it is idiotic to pair that ultra low distortion Stealth or even the Aeon (any version) (their distortion performance is also on the top of the rankings as well) with distortion generator amps and DACs like R2R (except for Holo Audio May KTE) and tubes. The mister clean setup provides them audio nirvana while for others it’s discrete DACs and Tube amps


Its oxymoronic how Amir suddenly is justifying the price for his stealth headphones. He should be listening to 500dollar headphones because expensive stuff is not justified. Cheaper headphones does have better measurements.

We are all bait to him. He is the biggest troll ever imo.


----------



## Arniesb

OCC7N said:


> Its oxymoronic how Amir suddenly is justifying the price for his stealth headphones. He should be listening to 500dollar headphones because expensive stuff is not justified. Cheaper headphones does have better measurements.
> 
> We are all bait to him. He is the biggest troll ever imo.


Why so obsessed with Amir?


----------



## OCC7N (Aug 24, 2022)

Arniesb said:


> Why so obsessed with Amir?


Maybe sounds like I am.

I am sorry if I offended anybody. But the man had a TT2 with a 5dB channel imbalance. A freaking monkey would pinpoint it with its language where we could understand it.

Problem:
Suddenly this TT2 that he measures represents all TT2 and people generalizing. This man is fueling a cheap culture of people.

Dont fall into this crap. Wake up. People with broken highend stuff might send him the goods.


----------



## Arniesb

OCC7N said:


> Maybe sounds like I am.
> 
> I am sorry if I offended anybody. But the man had a TT2 with a 5dB channel imbalance. A freaking monkey would pinpoint it with its language where we could understand it.
> 
> ...


I dont fully believe any audioguru anymore. Its not like Amir is always right or always wrong and same applies for anyone.
In my mind yes... Gear should measure well its no excuse, but also should come with excellent parts.
I thought Dave dac sounds amazing, but its amp is absolutely nothing to write a home about.
For example May, Dave, Mola dacs measure very well and sounds great to boot, but some measure terrible.
Good enginner should ensure both! Good measurements + great sound.


----------



## reter

I just bought this amp and i'm very satisfied, i owned the jds atom amp+ and with my 660s there were too much highs, now it's like finally i'm hearing something decent without blowing my ears when a violin approaches; also i'm addicted to impulcifer and i noticed changes even with my personal hrir

i will see how will be reliable in the years, hopefully topping have done a good job on this one :S

the only thing i'm concerned is about the heat, it's very hot (more than the jds) dunno if it's because of the aluminium case but considering that i use my pc every day for many hours i hope it doesn't break


----------



## theveterans

There is ZERO correlation between measurements and subjective evaluation of sound quality. You cannot intertwine “objective” and “subjective” since subjective encompasses the infinite spectrum while objective encompasses a finite spectrum


----------



## Arniesb

theveterans said:


> There is ZERO correlation between measurements and subjective evaluation of sound quality. You cannot intertwine “objective” and “subjective” since subjective encompasses the infinite spectrum while objective encompasses a finite spectrum


You say like your opinion is a fact. It is not! All this is subjective, you need to buy expensive cable or whatever you dont need someones validation or to bash someone who doesnt believe in what you believe.


----------



## Arniesb (Aug 24, 2022)

reter said:


> I just bought this amp and i'm very satisfied, i owned the jds atom amp+ and with my 660s there were too much highs, now it's like finally i'm hearing something decent without blowing my ears when a violin approaches; also i'm addicted to impulcifer and i noticed changes even with my personal hrir
> 
> i will see how will be reliable in the years, hopefully topping have done a good job on this one :S
> 
> the only thing i'm concerned is about the heat, it's very hot (more than the jds) dunno if it's because of the aluminium case but considering that i use my pc every day for many hours i hope it doesn't break


You should ask on Asr if its normal? Topping Designer always respond.


----------



## wazzupi

OCC7N said:


> Its oxymoronic how Amir suddenly is justifying the price for his stealth headphones. He should be listening to 500dollar headphones because expensive stuff is not justified. Cheaper headphones does have better measurements.
> 
> We are all bait to him. He is the biggest troll ever imo.


I’m pretty sure his speaker setup is in the hundred thousand dollar range or at least tens of thousands….


----------



## wazzupi

I take what everyone says with a pinch of salt. And I compare them to my believes, from what I’ve experienced I find common ground and that which doesn’t align and separate them and through trial and error or a general outlook put it in a egg and see what comes out of it. If I’m hungry I’ll boil the egg put some paprika and eat it XD sorry lol I had to end that one with satire.


----------



## PointyFox

theveterans said:


> There is ZERO correlation between measurements and subjective evaluation of sound quality. You cannot intertwine “objective” and “subjective” since subjective encompasses the infinite spectrum while objective encompasses a finite spectrum


Maybe on Opposite Day. 
Measurements are objective and are evidence of sound quality. Which is what's being measured.


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## De7mi (Aug 24, 2022)

XLR2XLR said:


> I'm very impressed by the Topping stack: U90->D90LE->A90D. It's precise, powerful, and musical. The A90D has enough juice to make the Susvara sing. I never wanted to EQ this chain with these headphones. A90D is a great solid state amp for its price. I definitely cannot call it "flat-sounding, overly-analytical or lifeless". A very enjoyable experience!


Great feedback! I have the same stack as you, A90D/D90LE and I used it with the susvara and He6se v2 and can agree to what you say. To get better performance out of them at a lower volume I would suggest the following:
1- Make the D90LE at a fixed volume (DAC mode)
2- increase the voltage of the D90LE from V4 to V5.
3- use FLAC files or high quality lossless on Roon or Audirvāna or any other great player.

With all of this I was able to get great sound with great dynamics and amazing performance for susvara and He6se and never go pass 69-75 on the volume to get to around 78-84db.


----------



## OCC7N

The problem still is people generalize on a single test....If Amir did test about 10 of the same brand/model. I would see a patern. His test are useless. We dont know if the measure are made on crappy broken models. FACTS!


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## theveterans

Arniesb said:


> You say like your opinion is a fact. It is not! All this is subjective, you need to buy expensive cable or whatever you dont need someones validation or to bash someone who doesnt believe in what you believe.



Not claiming that my statement is a fact, just stating that objective is defined and finite while sound quality is infinite in the spectrum and subjective is of course an opinion. You cannot intertwine facts with opinions


----------



## jonathan c

PointyFox said:


> Measurements are objective and are evidence of sound quality. Which is what's being measured.


Measurements are efforts by man to comprehend internal and external phenomena - of which sound is one. Measurements are discrete distillations of these phenomena which exist in a continuum. This happens in audio reproduction. Measurements could be ‘evidence’ of, clues towards, sound quality but cannot be _the proof of_ *sound *quality. That sound, that quality has to be heard.


----------



## PointyFox

jonathan c said:


> Measurements are efforts by man to comprehend internal and external phenomena - of which sound is one. Measurements are discrete distillations of these phenomena which exist in a continuum. This happens in audio reproduction. Measurements could be ‘evidence’ of, clues towards, sound quality but cannot be _the proof of_ *sound *quality. That sound, that quality has to be heard.


I disagree that it has to be heard. We know the limits of human hearing and the components of sound quality. We are able to measure them and determine the quality compared to either other devices or the limits of human hearing.
Human hearing isn't a continuum.


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## drspeter (Aug 24, 2022)

I am just wondering how we can generalize the sound based on a couple of measured value? It almost sound to me that if I write my height, weight and several more body measurement then you can exactly tell how I am looking like.

it is not that I am denying the value of measurements. I guess... addition of more measurement metric in the future could dissect the difference between the DAC and AMPs that are measured similarly (by the current measuring metrics) but sound different.


----------



## PointyFox

drspeter said:


> I am just wondering how we can generalize the sound based on a couple of measured value? It almost sound to me that if I write my height, weight and several more body measurement then you can exactly tell how I am looking like.


Ah, there's your problem. I didn't say "a couple". It would need to be more than a couple.


----------



## theveterans

drspeter said:


> I am just wondering how we can generalize the sound based on a couple of measured value? It almost sound to me that if I write my height, weight and several more body measurement then you can exactly tell how I am looking like.



One cannot objectify/generalize another metric called race/ethnicity which is an analogy to objectifying sound quality which one cannot do intrinsically IMHO


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## drspeter (Aug 24, 2022)

PointyFox said:


> Ah, there's your problem. I didn't say "a couple". It would need to be more than a couple.


yes.. of course it is a lot more than "a couple", but how many measured number do you think that it's sufficient to give exact same picture of something analog?
It is just my humble opinion that the current measurement might need more details and additional values if we are not fully capturing the sound signature that we hear with those numbers.
in general, I refer the numbers before I decide something to buy but I don't fully believe that number tells everything. let's not ignore completely as it's objective or subjective. Both matters and needs to be shared.


----------



## jplatypus

Can people just please get back to comparing the A90D to the Original A90? 😝


----------



## theveterans

drspeter said:


> yes.. of course it is a lot more than "a couple", but how many measured number do you think that it's sufficient to give exact same picture of something analog?
> It is just my humble opinion that the current measurement might need more details and additional values if we are not fully capturing the sound signature that we hear with those numbers.
> in general, I refer the numbers before I decide something to buy but I don't fully believe that number tells everything. let's not ignore completely as it's objective or subjective. Both matters and needs to be shared.



I'll provide a scenario. We keep things simple by evaluating at no load condition, i.e. voltage driven only (minimum current) and DACs are exactly these devices. A -118dB THD+N @ 1KHz Holo Audio May KTE is _*subjectively *_superior sounding to a -118 dB THD+N Sabaj D5 according to one person (level matched with a multi-meter to be more precise). Another person claims that the perceived sonic difference is placebo because the measured value is far beyond human perception and as such both devices should sound exactly the same. As you can see you cannot intertwine sound quality with objective measurements since sound quality is subjective and the opinion of another person that sound quality is defined by measurements is just an opinion which is subjective in its roots. My opinion that there's ZERO correlation between measurements and sound quality still stands since you cannot mashup subjective and objective traits


----------



## jonathan c

Another scenario vis-a-vis measurements: you are lying in a hospital bed and are hooked up to IV, EKG, etc. The following is a screen display:   


      You are?: (A) alive, (B) happy, (C) sad, (D) indifferent, (E) indeterminate…


----------



## PointyFox (Aug 24, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> Another scenario vis-a-vis measurements: you are lying in a hospital bed and are hooked up to IV, EKG, etc. The following is a screen display:         You are?: (A) alive, (B) happy, (C) sad, (D) indifferent, (E) indeterminate…


That's measuring the wrong thing. How do you not understand? That's like saying "Why not measure how much peanut butter is in a jar to gauge how headphones sound?" Measuring emotion can be done but that doesn't have anything to do with this. If you want some examples of basic headphone measurements, check Rtings.com. Also check out CSD graphs. That is, if you care. Most people don't and think their results are valid after multiple incorrect assumptions. When was the last time you even used a meter to volume match when doing a comparison? It's basic things like this that people don't do which calls into question the validity of most subjective impressions on here.


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## jonathan c (Aug 24, 2022)

PointyFox said:


> That's measuring the wrong thing. How do you not understand? That's like saying "Why not measure how much peanut butter is in a jar to gauge how headphones sound?" Measuring emotion can be done but that doesn't have anything to do with this. If you want some examples of basic headphone measurements, check Rtings.com. Also check out CSD graphs. That is, if you care. Most people don't and think their results are valid after multiple incorrect assumptions. When was the last time you even used a meter to volume match when doing a comparison?*** It's basic things like this that people don't do which calls into question the validity of most subjective impressions on here.


⬇️


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## jonathan c (Aug 24, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> *** actually last night. PS, do you automatically know what the ‘right’ thing to measure is? The point is that measurement cannot CAPTURE an experience.


----------



## wazzupi

How do you like the mojo audio evo ? I heard it’s a better yggy to be blunt.


----------



## jonathan c

wazzupi said:


> How do you like the mojo audio evo ? I heard it’s a better yggy to be blunt.


[PM]


----------



## ezduzit2500

Random Lunatic said:


> Could we keep things civil, not start throwing around ad hominem, but rather target the argument, not the person making it - its not really useful to anyone involved, and just clogs the thread?
> Also, not use "objective" where it isn't appropriate? Most people prefer bass elevated by about 5dB on average as per Harman's research, and currently more or less the only planar to meet that target is the DCA Stealth. Most are 5-10dB below that target - so people finding planars on average lacking in quantity should come as no surprise.
> Incidentally DCA is conversely one of the more extreme examples of the other common property or issue with planars, that being a perceived lacking sense of dynamics, similar but less extreme to electrostats (planars being somewhat like an electrodynamic version of electrostatic membrane drivers), comparatively speaking to dynamic driver units such as Focal or Fostex.
> Most if not all planars excibit some combination of these leading to some not finding their bass engaging enough.
> ...


Noted. Still stand by my post though....except the _preference _part that you fleshed out really well.


----------



## ezduzit2500

N0sferatu said:


> So I had quite the wild ride with this A90D...
> 
> 12 hours into ownership I'm jamming away and I go hmm...don't remember this track being so right-sided.  Volume also dropped out hard.  99% on the volume and not even remotely loud.  Barely a normal listening level.  Yup!  A90D took a dump.  No "pop" no abnormal pitched noise.  Just left channel died on my Arya and volume dropped out mid track.  It broke the left driver in my Arya on the single-ended unbalanced output.  Zero audio output on my Arya.  Tried swapping cables around, different amp, etc.  Dead.  What kind of recourse you think I have with Topping?  You think they'll tell me to shove it or you think they'll try to compensate me for destroying my Arya in less than 12 hours of ownership?  I'm out of warranty and had to pay Hifiman for a replacement (with shipping in my busted Arya).
> 
> Vendor definitely went "above and beyond" to try and right the ship the best they could.  They offered replace vs return.  I figured replace.  I have the new A90D with the broken one still on my desk (it's going back tomorrow).  Very trustworthy vendor to send a second one out without receiving broken product and without additional funds placed on hold.  They also gave me a killer price on a new pair of headphones so I picked up the Focal Clear Mg.  Breaking them in and using the XLR pathway on these.  So here is A90D #2 with a pair of Focal Clear Mg while my Arya on a UPS truck back to Hifiman.


Ooof. I guess Topping has more experience with IC opamp based amps instead of discretes. Could this be teething pains until they get the SMD robot working right???


----------



## Random Lunatic

PointyFox said:


> That's measuring the wrong thing. How do you not understand? That's like saying "Why not measure how much peanut butter is in a jar to gauge how headphones sound?" Measuring emotion can be done but that doesn't have anything to do with this. If you want some examples of basic headphone measurements, check Rtings.com. Also check out CSD graphs. That is, if you care. Most people don't and think their results are valid after multiple incorrect assumptions. When was the last time you even used a meter to volume match when doing a comparison? It's basic things like this that people don't do which calls into question the validity of most subjective impressions on here.


Ignoring how far off the rails this has gone, the debate is sorta pointless. You’re arguing with people who will refuse any fact or information that doesn’t agree with their subjective experience, regardless of not having done anything to ensure they aren’t marred by placebo, bias, volume difference etc., so you’re never going to ‘win’. Not worth the energy or pages of space…
people have different approaches to audio. Tricky thing is just figuring out which is which.


----------



## reter (Aug 25, 2022)

N0sferatu said:


> So I had quite the wild ride with this A90D...
> 
> 12 hours into ownership I'm jamming away and I go hmm...don't remember this track being so right-sided.  Volume also dropped out hard.  99% on the volume and not even remotely loud.  Barely a normal listening level.  Yup!  A90D took a dump.  No "pop" no abnormal pitched noise.  Just left channel died on my Arya and volume dropped out mid track.  It broke the left driver in my Arya on the single-ended unbalanced output.  Zero audio output on my Arya.  Tried swapping cables around, different amp, etc.  Dead.  What kind of recourse you think I have with Topping?  You think they'll tell me to shove it or you think they'll try to compensate me for destroying my Arya in less than 12 hours of ownership?  I'm out of warranty and had to pay Hifiman for a replacement (with shipping in my busted Arya).
> 
> Vendor definitely went "above and beyond" to try and right the ship the best they could.  They offered replace vs return.  I figured replace.  I have the new A90D with the broken one still on my desk (it's going back tomorrow).  Very trustworthy vendor to send a second one out without receiving broken product and without additional funds placed on hold.  They also gave me a killer price on a new pair of headphones so I picked up the Focal Clear Mg.  Breaking them in and using the XLR pathway on these.  So here is A90D #2 with a pair of Focal Clear Mg while my Arya on a UPS truck back to Hifiman.


oh my... did you notice any weird stuff happening before your headphones be killed? do you turn off your amp after your listening sessions or you keep it powered on?

maaan now i'm very worried if could be happening to me too, especially now that i'm using umbalanced connection between dac-amp mixed with balanced amp-headphones connection


----------



## borkenarrou

Guys, please report back issues with single ended, this is bit worrisome.

I think not all headphones can fail rightaway even if there is an issue, It will be great ff similar scenario can be recreated and changes in the power measured for any kind of anomaly.


----------



## RPKwan

Gavin C4 said:


> I am a legit owner of Topping's gears and other well-measureing amps. Really would like to know, what improvements have been made to the Topping A90 Discrete. Or is it a simple bi-annual refresh in the lineup for the sake of releasing a product as a product cycle of the original A90 ended?


How does it drive the Susvara?


----------



## jonathan c

PointyFox said:


> I disagree that it has to be heard. We know the limits of human hearing and the components of sound quality. We are able to measure them and determine the quality compared to either other devices or the limits of human hearing.
> Human hearing isn't a continuum.


Sound only has significance when it is _heard._


----------



## theveterans (Aug 25, 2022)

Deleted


----------



## RPKwan

XLR2XLR said:


> I've tried the Susvara with all the amps you see in my signature. Most of them are not powerful enough to make these headphones perform properly. As of now, my favorite amps for the Susvara are the McIntosh MHA200, Flux Volot, and the A90D is not far behind those two.


I second the MHA200 + Susvara pairing. I have some 19awg pure silver true balanced cables running out of the two 3-pin outputs and I think it's bliss. Numbers aren't everything looking at what the MHA200 outputs. I was also looking at the Flux Volot but it's massive, hence I'm looking at this thread.


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## N0sferatu (Aug 26, 2022)

reter said:


> oh my... did you notice any weird stuff happening before your headphones be killed? do you turn off your amp after your listening sessions or you keep it powered on?
> 
> maaan now i'm very worried if could be happening to me too, especially now that i'm using umbalanced connection between dac-amp mixed with balanced amp-headphones connection



I've been jamming the Focal Clear Mg non-stop 24 hours straight via balanced.  Then gave it a rest.  Been jamming the last 6 hours no issues.  Yesterday had a friend bring over his HD 650.  It didn't blow up on the unbalanced out.  I'm just hoping it was a defective unit.  There was no weird stuff it just went without a whimper.

With that said, the D90SE (or LE for the I hate MQA crowd) + A90D is truly a wonderful combo.  D90SE very revealing.  I'm relistening to music and tracks I know very well I'm surprised to be picking up things I never did before on other hardware.


----------



## reter

N0sferatu said:


> I've been jamming the Focal Clear Mg non-stop 24 hours straight via balanced.  Then gave it a rest.  Been jamming the last 6 hours no issues.  Yesterday had a friend bring over his HD 650.  It didn't blow up on the unbalanced out.  I'm just hoping it was a defective unit.  There was no weird stuff it just went without a whimper.
> 
> With that said, the D90SE (or LE for the I hate MQA crowd) + A90D is truly a wonderful combo.  D90SE very revealing.  I'm relistening to music and tracks I know very well I'm surprised to be picking up things I never did before on other hardware.


is the dac that gamechanging? i'm using the d10s and i already can hear the difference


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## N0sferatu (Aug 26, 2022)

reter said:


> is the dac that gamechanging? i'm using the d10s and i already can hear the difference



Coming from a Topping D30 (not the pro) which I thought was (and still is) a great DAC for the money.  Yes to me it's very revealing.  Tracks I've jammed for years I'm picking up new details.  

EDIT: This model
https://www.soundphilereview.com/reviews/topping-d30-review-768/


----------



## Guacamolly

N0sferatu said:


> (or LE for the I hate MQA crowd)


AMEN my dude, Tidal HIFI only!


----------



## Currawong

Guacamolly said:


> AMEN my dude, Tidal HIFI only!


I'd be cautious. Apparently, if there's an MQA version, the HiFi version is created from the MQA version, so you are still getting a file created from lossy data.


----------



## ericx85

Currawong said:


> I'd be cautious. Apparently, if there's an MQA version, the HiFi version is created from the MQA version, so you are still getting a file created from lossy data.


Pretty sure this is indeed true after tidal went through it's price restructuring


----------



## TheDeafMonk

Bought mine today in silver excited except for the 3 week shipping!


----------



## Guacamolly

TheDeafMonk said:


> Bought mine today in silver excited except for the 3 week shipping!


I'm very happy with it, hope you like it too!


----------



## cetrex

Currawong said:


> I'd be cautious. Apparently, if there's an MQA version, the HiFi version is created from the MQA version, so you are still getting a file created from lossy data.


I noticed this on Roon. I have standard Tidal HiFi, and if a track has MQA it will show the MQA Authentication in the signal path. smh


----------



## N0sferatu (Aug 26, 2022)

For all the Tidal hate, I don't see a better platform.
Spotify is a lossy mess
Tidal to my ears sounds comparable to Amazon Music HD (or whatever it's called these days).  I'm on a free trial at the moment with Qobuz.  Qobuz to my ears sounds just as good as Tidal.  Qobuz the interface is crap on both PC and Android.  Qobuz search is abysmal.  If you don't have it spelled exactly right it won't find it.  At least Tidal is good at deciphering a search to something useful.  It's not as good as Spotify but definitely better than Qobuz.

With that said, what else is out there for streaming other than using your home collection (which I also have).

EDIT: I see "PCM" when streaming "Hifi" tracks not MQA on the D90SE and MQA when doing master tracks for the person who said they're seeing MQA on Hifi tracks..


----------



## cetrex

N0sferatu said:


> For all the Tidal hate, I don't see a better platform.
> Spotify is a lossy mess
> Tidal to my ears sounds comparable to Amazon Music HD (or whatever it's called these days).  I'm on a free trial at the moment with Qobuz.  Qobuz to my ears sounds just as good as Tidal.  Qobuz the interface is crap on both PC and Android.  Qobuz search is abysmal.  If you don't have it spelled exactly right it won't find it.  At least Tidal is good at deciphering a search to something useful.  It's not as good as Spotify but definitely better than Qobuz.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I'm back on Tidal once again. I actually like the mobile app a lot now and use Room on my PC. Both have been updated quite a bit since last I used them.

Have been with Spotify for years, but finally cancelled after the HiFi fiasco ended being fake news.


----------



## Guacamolly

cetrex said:


> Agreed. I'm back on Tidal once again. I actually like the mobile app a lot now and use Room on my PC. Both have been updated quite a bit since last I used them.
> 
> Have been with Spotify for years, but finally cancelled after the HiFi fiasco ended being fake news.


I use both since tidal bypass my EQ, sometimes i need it,  ❤️ Spotify & Tidal hifi ❤️


----------



## Registlse (Aug 27, 2022)

Hello, its m'y first publication i'm french... 

I have the A90 and I bought the A90D to compare with Focal Clear xlr and dac/streamer Naim 272 rca. First of all, too bad for those who do not believe in running-in but out of box the two amps were dull and lifeless... After about ten hours the sound is ok, it’s obvious when I compared the 1st time the A90d with the A90, I thought if it was that sound I sent it back right away!
The A90D has the same tone as the A90 but is more transparent, the sounds stand out more, it is more detailed but not cold, not boring! For me it is the perfect balance between detail, transparency and warmth matter... The bass is firmer and descends lower and the high is finer and more varied (cymbals...) it’s subtle but very real. I like it a lot! The perfect couple with Focal Clear...


----------



## TheDeafMonk

Registlse said:


> Hello, its m'y first publication i'm french...
> 
> I have the A90 and I bought the A90D to compare with Focal Clear xlr and dac/streamer Naim 272 rca. First of all, too bad for those who do not believe in running-in but out of box the two amps were dull and lifeless... After about ten hours the sound is ok, it’s obvious when I compared the 1st time the A90d with the A90, I thought if it was that sound I sent it back right away!
> The A90D has the same tone as the A90 but is more transparent, the sounds stand out more, it is more detailed but not cold, not boring! For me it is the perfect balance between detail, transparency and warmth matter... The bass is firmer and descends lower and the high is finer and more varied (cymbals...) it’s subtle but very real. I like it a lot! The perfect couple with Focal Clear...


Wicked feedback super excited to get mine.
Anyone try this with a tube pre?


----------



## spw1880

For some reason





Currawong said:


> I'd be cautious. Apparently, if there's an MQA version, the HiFi version is created from the MQA version, so you are still getting a file created from lossy data.


I always found mqa to sound a bit bright to me. Since qobuz app is bit troblesome in my country. I have just been enjoying apple LL lately.


----------



## borkenarrou

My shipping date has to be extended as the seller said they are low on stock, the latest date he gave me is 10th Sept, I ordered from Aliexpress as i got a good deal. Others facing similar delays because of stock?


----------



## N0sferatu

So since they came through and it's finalized I figured I'd add an update on the A90D destroying my Arya (search for previous posts from me in here it was from roughly a week ago).  So after keeping in communication with Topping I explained to them what happened.  They did an internal review and credited me the cost to me for what it was to get my Arya replaced.  Kudos to Topping customer service!


----------



## eloom123

N0sferatu said:


> So since they came through and it's finalized I figured I'd add an update on the A90D destroying my Arya (search for previous posts from me in here it was from roughly a week ago).  So after keeping in communication with Topping I explained to them what happened.  They did an internal review and credited me the cost to me for what it was to get my Arya replaced.  Kudos to Topping customer service!


That’s better than I was expecting, given they explicitly state they will accept no liability for damage caused by a failure of the amp in the manual.


----------



## N0sferatu

eloom123 said:


> That’s better than I was expecting, given they explicitly state they will accept no liability for damage caused by a failure of the amp in the manual.



I'm sure that clause is if it happens months or years into service and to protect from the idiots who drive a 16 ohm IEM the 9 watts or whatever this thing can pump out and wreck them.  

My situation the amp failed in less than 24 hours and destroyed my headphone at the same time.  I told them who I bought it through and a brief summary of events.  They said they'd do their own investigation and would reimburse me what I was asking ($500) which is what it cost for Arya repair $475 + $30 shipping so I rounded it down.  They said they would do that as it's within the cost of the A90D.  After three days they responded back and said they would refund me and PayPal me the $500.


----------



## Patswalker (Aug 30, 2022)

carlcamper said:


> If I am looking for a totally transparent preamp...am I wrong in reading that this and the pre90 are basically the same thing just that this has an amazinng headphone amp and the ground switch on it and the pre90 has one more gain stage and no ground switch? Are they really that close to the same looking at it purely from the perspective of a preamp? Or am I missing something that would make me want to go for the pre90 and not the A90d? Because from my perspective the A90d is almost the better choice for a preamp.


----------



## Patswalker

If I am looking for a totally transparent preamp...am I wrong in reading that this and the pre90 are basically the same thing just that this has an amazinng headphone amp and the ground switch on it and the pre90 has one more gain stage and no ground switch? Are they really that close to the same looking at it purely from the perspective of a preamp? Or am I missing something that would make me want to go for the pre90 and not the A90d? Because from my perspective the A90d is almost the better choice for a preamp.


----------



## eloom123

N0sferatu said:


> I'm sure that clause is if it happens months or years into service and to protect from the idiots who drive a 16 ohm IEM the 9 watts or whatever this thing can pump out and wreck them.
> 
> My situation the amp failed in less than 24 hours and destroyed my headphone at the same time.  I told them who I bought it through and a brief summary of events.  They said they'd do their own investigation and would reimburse me what I was asking ($500) which is what it cost for Arya repair $475 + $30 shipping so I rounded it down.  They said they would do that as it's within the cost of the A90D.  After three days they responded back and said they would refund me and PayPal me the $500.


You are more optimistic than me! Glad to hear they treated you well. Thanks for sharing your experience, I was more cautious about what I plugged into my A90 Discrete for the first few days as a result.


----------



## spw1880 (Aug 30, 2022)

I think the A90D will be a great pairing with a dac that has strong bass and mids with abit of body and warmth..





Patswalker said:


> If I am looking for a totally transparent preamp...am I wrong in reading that this and the pre90 are basically the same thing just that this has an amazinng headphone amp and the ground switch on it and the pre90 has one more gain stage and no ground switch? Are they really that close to the same looking at it purely from the perspective of a preamp? Or am I missing something that would make me want to go for the pre90 and not the A90d? Because from my perspective the A90d is almost the better choice for a preamp.


I tried the a90d as a pre amp. Sounds clean. To my milo HP amp and also yamaha amp. But for some reason it made the soundstage more congested, a thicker sounding midrange. Even though it may seem similar to pre90 on paper. But i suspect there may be some differences.


----------



## Patswalker

spw1880 said:


> I think the A90D will be a great pairing with a dac that has strong bass and mids with abit of body and warmth..
> I tried the a90d as a pre amp. Sounds clean. To my milo HP amp and also yamaha amp. But for some reason it made the soundstage more congested, a thicker sounding midrange. Even though it may seem similar to pre90 on paper. But i suspect there may be some differences.


Thank you! I'd be running a warm tube phono-pre into it and and warm tube dac that it sounds might work perfectly. I appreciate the experience you're sharing.


----------



## Umwelt

Seems like the hype around this amp is real. This would be my first time playing with an amp that has so much power, using HPs that are very easy to drive and don't need even three quarters the power this thing can output, but if the sound quality is as good as people are saying it would be worth it. 

With low gain, what would be a safe volume number range to avoid surpassing in order to not kill phones with, say, a max input of 1500mW?


----------



## drspeter

I got mine recently and I am satisfied with the sound from thia little amp. I am mostly driving IEMs that doesnt need that much power tho, but this amp provides exceptional low noise with clean sounding. For my use case, do you guys think that single end with low gain will give the best sounding? I am currently using 4.4 mm output with low gain and I could tell that setting it at low gain resulted in better clarity than the same output and high gain. I couldnt test single end as I need to buy 6.5 to 2.5 mm converter to try. Will it worth spending money for the converter to use SE?


----------



## N0sferatu

Umwelt said:


> Seems like the hype around this amp is real. This would be my first time playing with an amp that has so much power, using HPs that are very easy to drive and don't need even three quarters the power this thing can output, but if the sound quality is as good as people are saying it would be worth it.
> 
> With low gain, what would be a safe volume number range to avoid surpassing in order to not kill phones with, say, a max input of 1500mW?



Just keep it within volume that won't blow your ear drums apart.  

I'm on high gain with Focal Clear (55 ohm) via XLR.  I'm usually 40-45%.  Some softer tracks 50-55%.  Shift it another 5-10% if I want to really jam loud.  Anything beyond that is ear piercing.  I think you're hearing limit will hit before you blow a driver.  

Based on Topping spec it's 6700mW @ 32 ohm and 4000mW at 64 ohm.  Figure 55 ohm probably 4500mW or so.  Half power is stupid volume levels at high gain.


----------



## jonathan c

N0sferatu said:


> Just keep it within volume that won't blow your ear drums apart.
> 
> I'm on high gain with Focal Clear (55 ohm) via XLR.  I'm usually 40-45%.  Some softer tracks 50-55%.  Shift it another 5-10% if I want to really jam loud.  Anything beyond that is ear piercing.  I think you're hearing limit will hit before you blow a driver.
> 
> Based on Topping spec it's 6700mW @ 32 ohm and 4000mW at 64 ohm.  Figure 55 ohm probably 4500mW or so.  Half power is stupid volume levels at high gain.


Plus, Focal Clear is quite a sensitive / an efficient headphone: it reaches 100.1 dB @ 1kHz with 1 mW.  4500 mw ===> 🌋👂👂…


----------



## Umwelt

jonathan c said:


> Plus, Focal Clear is quite a sensitive / an efficient headphone: it reaches 100.1 dB @ 1kHz with 1 mW. 4500 mw ===> 🌋👂👂…



That's the same as my daily drivers. Will start with low gain and play it safe. I'm coming from years using a Sony TA-ZH1ES's amp--which was a mere 1200mW--that I'm replacing because I'm going to a 230V region and those things are region locked at the AC power block level. Appreciate Topping using universal PSUs for those of us that move across continents!


----------



## TheDeafMonk

The A90D have 5 settable  gain(1-99) steps for the gain settings if I understand Zeos video correctly so for easy to drive monitors 5 and transducers that need more power 4,3,2 and 1 being the most powerful. ?


----------



## N0sferatu

jonathan c said:


> Plus, Focal Clear is quite a sensitive / an efficient headphone: it reaches 100.1 dB @ 1kHz with 1 mW.  4500 mw ===> 🌋👂👂…



Can't wait to try my Arya again once I get them back from Hifiman.  Jam some planar on this.  I'll have to get an XLR cable for those because as of now it's unbalanced.


----------



## klardotsh (Sep 1, 2022)

Registlse said:


> Hello, its m'y first publication i'm french...
> 
> I have the A90 and I bought the A90D to compare with Focal Clear xlr and dac/streamer Naim 272 rca. First of all, too bad for those who do not believe in running-in but out of box the two amps were dull and lifeless... After about ten hours the sound is ok, it’s obvious when I compared the 1st time the A90d with the A90, I thought if it was that sound I sent it back right away!
> The A90D has the same tone as the A90 but is more transparent, the sounds stand out more, it is more detailed but not cold, not boring! For me it is the perfect balance between detail, transparency and warmth matter... The bass is firmer and descends lower and the high is finer and more varied (cymbals...) it’s subtle but very real. I like it a lot! The perfect couple with Focal Clear...


Very much hoping your experience ends up being replicable: "dull and lifeless" would be extremely polite to this amp (paired with a D90LE and ZMF Atriums) so far, four hours in. I'll run a burn-in track overnight (and also tell my brain to burn itself in, since I'm on the fence about solid state gear physically burning in, personally  ) and see how it sounds tomorrow, but I have a growing suspicion this stack may leave my desk otherwise.

24ish hours update: be it brain or amp, or both, or neither and the cosmos simply aligned better today, this thing sounds incredible with nearly all genres. Not forgiving of bad mixes and masters, but on quality source material and through good headphones, this stack is hard to beat for the price. I have truly never heard these Atriums pushed harder, cleaner, or more (accurately) detailed-ly.


----------



## TheDeafMonk (Sep 1, 2022)

Can anyone confirm you can use both the SE RCA and Xlr out simultaneously XLR to Monitors and RCA to Sub? That's my plan anyway?


----------



## cfranchi

XLR2XLR said:


> I've tried the Susvara with all the amps you see in my signature. Most of them are not powerful enough to make these headphones perform properly. As of now, my favorite amps for the Susvara are the McIntosh MHA200, Flux Volot, and the A90D is not far behind those two.



How doses A90D perform against Volot in term of stage and dynamic ? Also are timbre / tonality better with the class A Volot ?
Thx


----------



## N0sferatu

TheDeafMonk said:


> Can anyone confirm you can use both the SE RCA and Xlr out simultaneously XLR to Monitors and RCA to Sub? That's my plan anyway?



Yes you can.  I'm XLR output to Focal Clear Mg.  RCA output to Vanatoo they both play at the same time.  You can isolate just one or the other or both.


----------



## TheDeafMonk

N0sferatu said:


> Yes you can.  I'm XLR output to Focal Clear Mg.  RCA output to Vanatoo they both play at the same time.  You can isolate just one or the other or both.


Thank you makes me so happy to hear. Picked up a set of Adam Audio F7 today so going to run that Bal xlr and run the sub RCA so sweet thanks for the confirmation much appreciated.


----------



## Currawong

Umwelt said:


> That's the same as my daily drivers. Will start with low gain and play it safe. I'm coming from years using a Sony TA-ZH1ES's amp--which was a mere 1200mW--that I'm replacing because I'm going to a 230V region and those things are region locked at the AC power block level. Appreciate Topping using universal PSUs for those of us that move across continents!


Mere? My main headphone amp puts out 1200mW.


----------



## XLR2XLR (Sep 2, 2022)

cfranchi said:


> How doses A90D perform against Volot in term of stage and dynamic ? Also are timbre / tonality better with the class A Volot ?
> Thx


I would say the Volot adds a pinch of tube flavor to the sound – makes it a little bit more spacious and life-like. It's still very precise and detailed, but less fatiguing for long listening sessions compared to the A90D. It has less of that digital glare and more depth to sound. The A90D is a great-sounding amp for its money, but the Volot handles the Susvara slightly better due to its huge muscles. I believe it's still the only headphone amp that sports 16W RMS per channel @ 32 ohms. Its only drawback is its huge size – it's ~8 times larger than the A90.


----------



## cfranchi

XLR2XLR said:


> I would say the Volot adds a pinch of tube flavor to the sound – makes it a little bit more spacious and life-like. It's still very precise and detailed, but less fatiguing for long listening sessions compared to the A90D. It has less of that digital glare and more depth to sound. The A90D is a great-sounding amp for its money, but the Volot handles the Susvara slightly better due to its huge muscles. I believe it's still the only headphone amp that sports 16W RMS per channel @ 32 ohms. Its only drawback is its huge size – it's ~8 times larger than the A90.



Thank you, I guess an R2R or AKM dac would be nice with A90D


----------



## Registlse

Do you realize the difference in price between the two? So little difference makes the a90d an exceptional amp for its price and an excellent amp no matter the price!


----------



## Umwelt

Currawong said:


> Mere? My main headphone amp puts out 1200mW.



Of course that's plenty for most cans (though to be precise 1200mW is from the Tazzie's balanced output only, but even the single-ended 300mW is enough for easy to drive phones). I meant relative to the A90D--as I said, first time using something with this much output and still no idea if it will make a difference.




XLR2XLR said:


> but less fatiguing for long listening sessions compared to the A90D. I




I'm hoping fatigue is not an issue regardless of DAC or pre-amp pairing. The TA-ZH1ES all-in-one solution I'm coming from is known to be really good for easy, non-fatiguing listening, and I can vouch for that. Can listen at high volume levels for hours. Guess I'll know if the A90D can do that too when it arrives in a day or two.

BTW, does anyone have recommendations for a good DAC to pair with this amp that has stereo SE line-in and not just digital inputs? Trying to replicate the simple setup I have going now.


----------



## Registlse

I can listen for hours without any fatigue with focal clear and a dac/streamer Naim 272...


----------



## reter

never heard the volot, sure has to be very good but the difference in price in abyssal, plus the size is too big for my desk, a90d is more friendly for "casual" listeners


----------



## Registlse

Why casual?


----------



## theveterans

cfranchi said:


> Thank you, I guess an R2R or AKM dac would be nice with A90D



IMO fatigue after an hour of 2 of reference loudness listening (80-85 dB) is less influenced by the amp and are more of a function of the DAC, power filtering and source jitter qualities (not the jitter plot that you get from an impulse response by the AP555B which IMO still does not correlate much to MY anecdotal experience with poor jitter induced listening fatigue). Improvements on those 3 factors will minimize listening fatigue to almost zero even on brickwalled compressed tracks such as Linkin Park or RHCP at rock out your whole room listening levels 90+ dB SPL and up


----------



## Arniesb

theveterans said:


> IMO fatigue after an hour of 2 of reference loudness listening (80-85 dB) is less influenced by the amp and are more of a function of the DAC, power filtering and source jitter qualities (not the jitter plot that you get from an impulse response by the AP555B which IMO still does not correlate much to MY anecdotal experience with poor jitter induced listening fatigue). Improvements on those 3 factors will minimize listening fatigue to almost zero even on brickwalled compressed tracks such as Linkin Park or RHCP at rock out your whole room listening levels 90+ dB SPL and up


Its 100 procent infuenced by poor source since most of the amps and dac have low noise floor.
Try almost any dac with usb from a phone or from a reclocker like Innuos Pheonix and listening fatigue will be non existant regardles of dac.
More transparent dac and amp more obvious source faults will show.
R2R dacs or other less transparent dacs wont highlight source issues as much.


----------



## theveterans

Arniesb said:


> Its 100 procent infuenced by poor source since most of the amps and dac have low noise floor.
> Try almost any dac with usb from a phone or from a reclocker like Innuos Pheonix and listening fatigue will be non existant regardles of dac.
> More transparent dac and amp more obvious source faults will show.
> R2R dacs or other less transparent dacs wont highlight source issues as much.



That’s why I eliminated my PC directly from the chain and use a battery powered low jitter source


----------



## TheDeafMonk (Sep 2, 2022)

I have a lead on a Older Cambridge Audio Dacmagic MKii thoughts on using this balanced into the A90D? So from Hiby R6 2020 to CA DAC to A90D?

Or just go strait in from my Hiby because it uses a newer DAC?


----------



## theveterans

TheDeafMonk said:


> I have a lead on a Older Cambridge Audio Dacmagic MKii thoughts on using this balanced into the A90D? So from Hiby R6 2020 to CA DAC to A90D?
> 
> Or just go strait in from my Hiby because it uses a newer DAC?



Why not try them yourself and hear which chain you prefer out of the A90D? What I can tell you is that both will sound good, but your ears will tell you which source would be your preference


----------



## reter

Registlse said:


> Why casual?


"casual" intentionally wrote because this amp can be used for literally everything and everywhere because of its compact size, i love it


----------



## spw1880

Arniesb said:


> Its 100 procent infuenced by poor source since most of the amps and dac have low noise floor.
> Try almost any dac with usb from a phone or from a reclocker like Innuos Pheonix and listening fatigue will be non existant regardles of dac.
> More transparent dac and amp more obvious source faults will show.
> R2R dacs or other less transparent dacs wont highlight source issues as much.


Would something like an intona usb regenerator isolater do the same thing?


----------



## Arniesb

spw1880 said:


> Would something like an intona usb regenerator isolater do the same thing?


havent heard that.


----------



## Umwelt

I have two single ended sources, but the A90D sadly only has one SE input. 

Rather than unplugging/plugging every time, or having to use a matrix/switch, I'm thinking of using RCA-to-XLR adapters and using the balanced input as a second SE input. Other than not taking advantage of the balanced input, are there any issues I can expect by doing this?


----------



## carlcamper

Umwelt said:


> I have two single ended sources, but the A90D sadly only has one SE input.
> 
> Rather than unplugging/plugging every time, or having to use a matrix/switch, I'm thinking of using RCA-to-XLR adapters and using the balanced input as a second SE input. Other than not taking advantage of the balanced input, are there any issues I can expect by doing this?


Dont. Balanced to unbalanced can potentially damage equipment. Unbalanced to balanced is okay. I recommend just getting a splitter for the unbalanced out.


----------



## Umwelt

carlcamper said:


> Dont. Balanced to unbalanced can potentially damage equipment. Unbalanced to balanced is okay. I recommend just getting a splitter for the unbalanced out.



Thanks for the input! What I'm thinking of doing is unbalanced to balanced, or am I mixing it up? The source is unbalanced/RCA cables, and I'd plug them into RCA-to-XLR adapters and connect them to the balanced inputs of the A90. So would that be okay? AFAIK it should be fine, it's just that if the RCA cables pick up any noise it would get amplified, rather than cancelled out if it were a balanced cable.


----------



## Patswalker

Umwelt said:


> I have two single ended sources, but the A90D sadly only has one SE input.
> 
> Rather than unplugging/plugging every time, or having to use a matrix/switch, I'm thinking of using RCA-to-XLR adapters and using the balanced input as a second SE input. Other than not taking advantage of the balanced input, are there any issues I can expect by doing this?


Get a passive RCA switcher. They’re great!


----------



## carlcamper

Umwelt said:


> Thanks for the input! What I'm thinking of doing is unbalanced to balanced, or am I mixing it up? The source is unbalanced/RCA cables, and I'd plug them into RCA-to-XLR adapters and connect them to the balanced inputs of the A90. So would that be okay? AFAIK it should be fine, it's just that if the RCA cables pick up any noise it would get amplified, rather than cancelled out if it were a balanced cable.


 Read this guide for the danger of that: https://www.moon-audio.com/balanced-adapters-caution


----------



## Umwelt

Patswalker said:


> Get a passive RCA switcher. They’re great!



I know, but that's what I don't want to do lol. I want to minimize clutter. Spoiled by years of an all-in-one. Small DAC+this amp is as far as I'm trying to go.

From what I'm gathering, seems like it should be fine, just need to keep the RCA cables short to minimize the chance of them picking up hum.


----------



## Umwelt

carlcamper said:


> https://www.moon-audio.com/balanced-adapters-caution



This seems to be about the output side though, i.e. connecting an SE headphone cable into a balanced headphone output. That would be going balanced -> unbalanced.

I'm going the other way around: unbalanced source (say, CD player's RCA output) -> balanced (A90's XLR inputs).


----------



## carlcamper

Umwelt said:


> This seems to be about the output side though, i.e. connecting an SE headphone cable into a balanced headphone output. That would be going balanced -> unbalanced.
> 
> I'm going the other way around: unbalanced source (say, CD player's RCA output) -> balanced (A90's XLR inputs).


Ahh, then it should be fine  output power should be the same as fully balanced, you might just get more crosstalk due to unbalanced input


----------



## Patswalker

Umwelt said:


> I know, but that's what I don't want to do lol. I want to minimize clutter. Spoiled by years of an all-in-one. Small DAC+this amp is as far as I'm trying to go.
> 
> From what I'm gathering, seems like it should be fine, just need to keep the RCA cables short to minimize the chance of them picking up hum.


I have an rca splitter I use in connecting my preamp to both my sub and my power amp. To my ears it sounds great and doesn’t degrade the sound at all. The amp in the sub and powe amp still have signal to do their job with and amplify to what they always do. So, that could work coming in to the A90d as well. Look up a nice pair like Audioquest so if your rcas are shielded the splitter should be too. Just don’t send both signals in to the A90d at the same time and I’d imagine it would be fine. I’ve never actually done this but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work


----------



## TheDeafMonk (Sep 3, 2022)

I think you will be fine.
Work just perfect on mine.
3.5 SE out of my Tempotec Serenade X to XLR in.


----------



## Umwelt

Patswalker said:


> Just don’t send both signals in to the A90d at the same time and I’d imagine it would be fine. I’ve never actually done this but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work



Yeah you're right, simple Y-splitters should do the trick too, signals shouldn't be affected if only one is on at a time.

Thanks for your input everyone!


----------



## Currawong (Sep 4, 2022)

TheDeafMonk said:


> I have a lead on a Older Cambridge Audio Dacmagic MKii thoughts on using this balanced into the A90D? So from Hiby R6 2020 to CA DAC to A90D?
> 
> Or just go strait in from my Hiby because it uses a newer DAC?


I'd just use the Hiby, since it has a dedicated line out, and Pentaconn to XLR cables are readily available now. If you want to use your computer. I think you can use it as a DAC as well, via USB, though that might be a bit lower quality due to noise going through the USB ground plane.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Sep 7, 2022)

@Currawong earlier in this thread you stated


Currawong said:


> I compared the A90D with the SA-1 yesterday, level matched, from the Yggdrasil. I did find the SA-1 to be a touch more nuanced driving the Stealth, and the A90D a bit less. I hadn't been expecting that. It was quite subtle though. I reckon if someone finds these amps a bit bright (or lean or harsh, or whatever word one prefers) a Jotunheim 2 would be better. It also seems to deliver a better sense of depth (ie: front to back imaging) which is noticeable with headphones such as the Utopias.
> 
> I wonder if this bright/lean/harsh impression, which I didn't experience myself, is because I'm using a power conditioner. I'm also wondering if most people don't pair them with a Topping DAC as well. I'll have a go tomorrow with the D90 (original) with both hooked up directly into the mains to see if I can't figure it out.
> 
> ...


@Currawong, I read thru the whole of this thread and wanted to return to your comments here - it seems you were indicating that most differences  users are hearing between A90D and other similar mid-fi amps such as SA-1 and Jottunheim 2 may principally arise from the DAC from which the signal is transmitted. @Mista Lova Lova found the pairing of Gustard X26 Pro with A90 OG to differ from A90D where he found the latter to be more analytical  and you report that you found the pairing between D90 (OG correct?) and A90D stack to demonstrate unpleasant sibilance at least on some tracks? @JoshuaVelour reported that the A90D was warm tilted, a very different impression, but in his review he did not identify the DAC he was using.

 Have you paired the A90D with other DACs since, and which did you find most optimal? Any impressions to share on the sound signature with that pairing?


----------



## TheDeafMonk

I ordered the Geshelli J2 now with the AKM4493 chip as this gets compared to the D90 sound wise so I am excited to hear the pairing this will provide!


----------



## TheMiddleSky

jlemaster1957 said:


> @Currawong earlier in this thread you stated
> 
> @Currawong, I read thru the whole of this thread and wanted to return to your comments here - it seems you were indicating that most differences  users are hearing between A90D and other similar mid-fi amps such as SA-1 and Jottunheim 2 may principally arise from the DAC from which the signal is transmitted. @Mista Lova Lova found the pairing of Gustard X26 Pro with A90 OG to differ from A90D where he found the latter to be more analytical  and you report that you found the pairing between D90 (OG correct?) and A90D stack to demonstrate unpleasant sibilance at least on some tracks? @JoshuaVelour reported that the A90D was warm tilted, a very different impression, but in his review he did not identify the DAC he was using.
> 
> Have you paired the A90D with other DACs since, and which did you find most optima Any impressions to share on the sound signature with that pairing?



Warm has no direct correlation with sibilance. A device can be warm and sibilance at the same time. Warm created by a hint of bump in bass/midrange area, it tells nothing about smoothness (free of peak) in upper mid / low treble area. 

For example: Sundara closed back is warmer than Sundara open back, and at the same time the Closed Back also produce more sibilance in bad recording.


----------



## jlemaster1957

TheMiddleSky said:


> Warm has no direct correlation with sibilance. A device can be warm and sibilance at the same time. Warm created by a hint of bump in bass/midrange area, it tells nothing about smoothness (free of peak) in upper mid / low treble area.
> 
> For example: Sundara closed back is warmer than Sundara open back, and at the same time the Closed Back also produce more sibilance in bad recording.


Thank you for that educational feedback, I learn something every day in this hobby. That jibes with my experience too now I think about it.

 I continue to be interested to hear from @Currawong or others on his or their favoured DAC for the A90D. Thanks for @TheDeafMonk for your reply pls provide an impression when your Geshelli arrives


----------



## klardotsh

Chiming in to also note that I'll be cross-testing against an AK4493-based Geshelli J2 and Geshelli Erish2 and just thunderdoming them out. My two factors of concern are some noted "unnatural" sounds in certain vocals and stringed instruments (by both my friend and I in several tests), and also just cost: the Geshelli stack, even with wood cases (which IMO look nicer than the Topping stack) clocks in at less than half the price of the D90LE+A90D stack, so even if the sound is a wash, to me personally it's the better deal.

Will let folks know whenever these show up and I've had a chance to play around a bit with them. A friend is in the market for an Ares II DAC; if he manages to get that before I decide which of these two stacks survives in my own house, I'll also do some comparisons between the A90D and E2 on that DAC.


----------



## Umwelt

jlemaster1957 said:


> I continue to be interested to hear from @Currawong or others on his or their favoured DAC for the A90D. Thanks for @TheDeafMonk for your reply pls provide an impression when your Geshelli arrives



Just to share my impressions, I auditioned the A90D with the two DACs I have available, the custom FPGA DAC on my TA-ZH1ES via fixed pre-out, and the DAC on a new Mac Studio (I think it's a Cirrus Logic) via the headphone out as pre-amp. Both sounded about the same, with perhaps slightly better "synergy" with the Mac's DAC which perhaps may match a bit better the transparent/analytical sound the Topping may be going for. This makes me feel like DAC pairing doesn't matter much, at least for me.

That said, I didn't find that the A90D, whether fed from a DAC or a straight analog source, was offering anything above/noticeably different compared to the amp output of the TA or even the Mac (which is indeed improved compared to earlier models), so I saw no reason to keep it in place of a simpler AIO or even just the Mac alone.


----------



## jlemaster1957

Umwelt said:


> Just to share my impressions, I auditioned the A90D with the two DACs I have available, the custom FPGA DAC on my TA-ZH1ES via fixed pre-out, and the DAC on a new Mac Studio (I think it's a Cirrus Logic) via the headphone out as pre-amp. Both sounded about the same, with perhaps slightly better "synergy" with the Mac's DAC which perhaps may match a bit better the transparent/analytical sound the Topping may be going for. This makes me feel like DAC pairing doesn't matter much, at least for me.
> 
> That said, I didn't find that the A90D, whether fed from a DAC or a straight analog source, was offering anything above/noticeably different compared to the amp output of the TA or even the Mac (which is indeed improved compared to earlier models), so I saw no reason to keep it in place of a simpler AIO or even just the Mac alone.


Thanks what this seems to imply (pls correct me if I’m not understanding) is that from your perspective the DAC 100% controlled the output you heard. My question is whether/how  a high level DAC (I don’t know the TA-ZH1ES, maybe it is that) may ‘play’ differently with the A90D than with a different amplifier. What I am understanding is that one could use a much simpler /cheaper amp and get virtually the same sound. Is that your thought?


----------



## Umwelt

jlemaster1957 said:


> Thanks what this seems to imply (pls correct me if I’m not understanding) is that from your perspective the DAC 100% controlled the output you heard. My question is whether/how a high level DAC (I don’t know the TA-ZH1ES, maybe it is that) may ‘play’ differently with the A90D than with a different amplifier. What I am understanding is that one could use a much simpler /cheaper amp and get virtually the same sound. Is that your thought?



Yeah, just on that very limited sampling I got the impression that you can use pretty much any simple DAC without any significant or even noticeable differences. I should clarify that the sound from the A90D was very good, everything felt transparent, no sense of any audio information getting lost or compromised. I was simply expecting it to feel like an upgrade compared to the options I already had available, but it would easily be a great amp option for someone getting started, and the small footprint is a plus.

On another minor note, I wasn't a fan of the clicking on the volume knob. Don't know if that can be disabled.


----------



## TheDeafMonk

Oh man cheap audio man posted a review of the Geshelli J2 with the AKM DAC so excited to hear whenever both finally get shipped. Wait is killing me ,I guess the A90D was sold out and I am sure the J2 going to be popular even more so now too.


----------



## phalanx2357 (Sep 9, 2022)

Have been using the A90 for a year and got the A90D about two weeks ago. After repeated back and forth listenings, with different DACs, I can't hear material differences. Maybe if I super focus on it, I detect some minor differences, maybe on some bass (D has slightly more bass) or airiness (OG has better upper end ariness) of female vocals, but honestly they feel like very small differences that pretty much disappears after you ve used one for maybe a minute... So could simply be actually non-existent... Basically if I listen to one for a a while, then switch to another and listen for a while, I am not feeling one is better than the other, feels pretty much the same to me. So not really sure if it's actually an upgrade on sound. On the toggles, it's most definitely a downgrade... having on-off, gain, and source as toggles is SO much easier to use than having to use the freaking remote to turn on and off...


----------



## jlemaster1957

phalanx2357 said:


> Have been using the A90 for a year and got the A90D about two weeks ago. After repeated back and forth listenings, with different DACs, I can't hear material differences. Maybe if I super focus on it, I detect some minor differences, maybe on some bass (D has slightly more bass) or airiness (OG has better upper end ariness) of female vocals, but honestly they feel like very small differences that pretty much disappears after you ve used one for maybe a minute... So could simply be actually non-existent... Basically if I listen to one for a a while, then switch to another and listen for a while, I am not feeling one is better than the other, feels pretty much the same to me. So not really sure if it's actually an upgrade on sound. On the toggles, it's most definitely a downgrade... having on-off, gain, and source as toggles is SO much easier to use than having to use the freaking remote to turn on and off...


Ok sorry but I have to ask- what DAC(S) are you using for your comparison, and what IEMS/HPs?


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## phalanx2357 (Sep 9, 2022)

DACs I used Denafrips Ares II and the TempoTec Sonata HD pro (a fairly cheap usb dongle). Only one headphone, Abyss Diana TC, which is known to be super detailed, resolving, with punch and good bass extension; so if there are clear differences, probably would show on this headphone.


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## ericx85

I would say if they want to release an A90 Supreme version, put back the toggle switches but keep the R2R volume. I'm going to borrow my friends A90D to try out and compare to Soloist GT. But if theres one thing I can say I loved about the A90 og before I sold it were those damn switches.


----------



## borkenarrou

ericx85 said:


> I would say if they want to release an A90 Supreme version, put back the toggle switches but keep the R2R volume. I'm going to borrow my friends A90D to try out and compare to Soloist GT. But if theres one thing I can say I loved about the A90 og before I sold it were those damn switches.


Please do post your impressions once you have it, I ordered the A90D but also interested in the Soloist 3XP because I expect it to be more warm and musical than the A90D because of class A. basically it make sense for me to keep both if they are different enough A90D being more neutral/reference/clean sound and 3XP being more musical/fun/romantic, that's what i can visualise, please let me know if you feel that way.


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## ericx85 (Sep 10, 2022)

borkenarrou said:


> Please do post your impressions once you have it, I ordered the A90D but also interested in the Soloist 3XP because I expect it to be more warm and musical than the A90D because of class A. basically it make sense for me to keep both if they are different enough A90D being more neutral/reference/clean sound and 3XP being more musical/fun/romantic, that's what i can visualise, please let me know if you feel that way.


EDIT: I know you asked for a soloist gt/a90d comparison, but for now I can give you an OG A90/Soloist 3xp comparison.

TL,DR version: If you've based your purchases mostly on measurements, get the 3xp with a place that has a good/no fuss return policy. Hook it up, and for a few hours forget about measurements and just listen. Then decide whats more important to you, the fact that you're getting what measurements tell you is dead neutral and transparent, or something that simply just sounds better(to me at least)

----

Soloist 3xp is actually what made me sell the OG a90 and made me say screw measurements. Soloist 3xp measures like hot garbage. Its a dumpster fire on the graphs. Granted I think ASR got a broken unit because one channel was screwed up compared to L7audios measurements. 3xp is more 3d, felt more open, less glarey/harsh (but I doubt the holo may would be considered harsh by anyone being nos and r2r, however the may puts out a hot signal compared to other dacs and could be why the a90 sounded harsh with it).

You're assumptions about the differences are pretty close/spot on. There's a good chance you might want to keep both and use the A90 as a pre-amp and keep the 3xp in power amp mode, a lot of people seem to prefer that mode(basically passes through the 3xp's volume control, it does measure a bit better this way). Though if you want to ditch the A90 completely just save up for the Soloist GT, its basically a more neutral tuned 3xp while keeping all the other good things about the 3xp. The fan seems to be the biggest problem people have with it but it sits no more than 3/4 feet away from me and I cant hear it at all.

I had a VERY difficult time coming to terms with the fact that I enjoyed the 3xp a lot more. The important thing is you need to fully be sure what it is you want. To current standards and measurements the A90/D is dead neutral and transparent and the Soloist 3xp is not (by a long shot based on measurements).  Do you want to know/feel like you're getting a 100% honest and transparent sound with very low distortion? Even if an amp that measures horribly sounds better to you? Then the A90 is your amp. For its price you get amazing measurements and features that are incredibly hard to beat. You may not like the soloist's sound, but for me it was an eye opener, and the fact that it had similar features to the A90 with pre amps, op amp swapping if I wanted to tune the 3xp which I couldnt with the a90, and digital volume control for perfect matching(which the A90D now has) made me throw it away.


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## borkenarrou

Thanks for the impression!, so i was pretty close!, now to save for the 3xp 🙂, I also wanted to compare with flux labs fa-12 / singxer sa-1 as its quite a bit cheaper, but the opamp capabilities of the 3xp is a big plus.


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## phalanx2357 (Sep 10, 2022)

borkenarrou said:


> Please do post your impressions once you have it, I ordered the A90D but also interested in the Soloist 3XP because I expect it to be more warm and musical than the A90D because of class A. basically it make sense for me to keep both if they are different enough A90D being more neutral/reference/clean sound and 3XP being more musical/fun/romantic, that's what i can visualise, please let me know if you feel that way.


A90 vs. 3XP is a matter of personal preference. I bought and returned the 3XP earlier this year after trying it out for about 3 weeks - I simply liked the A90 better. I decided to try the 3xp out because of all the glowing reviews on this site and on reddit, that it's more musical, etc. I listened to both extensively; the best summary I can give is the Soloist is a warmer amp and if you want a warmer sound signature, you ll like it more.

The Soloist dampens higher end airiness, reduces sibilance, and really strengthens low-end punch. I think it would be a perfect match for headphones that need a bit more low-end (say LCD5). It simply isn't a good match for the Diana TC (already more punchy than Focal Clear). Actually listening to the 3xp at similar volumes as the A90 (for vocals) hurt my ears due to drums sounding too strong. I also didn't like the more recessed highs; I enjoy ariness in upper-end female vocals. The Soloist also runs SUPER hot, close to burning to the touch, while you can leave the A90 on for however long and it's only slightly warm... I was concerned that I may forget to turn the Soloist off one day and it's going to catch on fire...

So again, it's a matter of personal preference. If you want more warmness, or if your headphones would benefit from punchier low-end, you ll enjoy the 3XP. I simply prefer the A90 more for the gear I have.


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## ericx85 (Sep 10, 2022)

phalanx2357 said:


> A90 vs. 3XP is a matter of personal preference. I bought and returned the 3XP earlier this year after trying it out for about 3 weeks - I simply liked the A90 better. I decided to try the 3xp out because of all the glowing reviews on this site and on reddit, that it's more musical, etc. I listened to both extensively; the best summary I can give is the Soloist is a warmer amp and if you want a warmer sound signature, you ll like it more.
> 
> The Soloist dampens higher end airiness, reduces sibilance, and really strengthens low-end punch. I think it would be a perfect match for headphones that need a bit more low-end (say LCD5). It simply isn't a good match for the Diana TC (already more punchy than Focal Clear). Actually listening to the 3xp at similar volumes as the A90 (for vocals) hurt my ears due to drums sounding too strong. I also didn't like the more recessed highs; I enjoy the ariness in high-end female vocals. The Soloist also runs SUPER hot, close to burning to the touch, while you can leave the A90 one for however long and it's only slightly warm... I was concerned that I may forget to turn the Soloist off one day and it's going to catch on fire...
> 
> So again, it's a matter of personal preference. If you want more warmness, or if your headphones would benefit from punchier low-end, you ll enjoy the 3XP. I simply prefer the A90 more for the gear I have.


Perfect example of what I mean that you gotta know what you like. I'm glad someone else with an opposite opinion gave some feedback. And what he said about the heat from the 3xp is true. It does get hot. Best to use the horizontal stand that comes with it. Also another drawback with the 3xp I forgot to mention is that the supercharger for it is kind of necessary as it improves it a decent bit compared to the stock power brick. Anyway gonna be the last time I post about the Soloist as this is an A90D thread and don't want to derail it.


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## jlemaster1957

ericx85 said:


> Perfect example of what I mean that you gotta know what you like. I'm glad someone else with an opposite opinion gave some feedback. And what he said about the heat from the 3xp is true. It does get hot. Best to use the horizontal stand that comes with it. Also another drawback with the 3xp I forgot to mention is that the supercharger for it is kind of necessary as it improves it a decent bit compared to the stock power brick. Anyway gonna be the last time I post about the Soloist as this is an A90D thread and don't want to derail it.


Just want to say both of your input here really really helpful. There was an open box special for the 3XP today for a great price on headphones.com (<$869) and I ==almost== went for it. But I have been teetering between these two for about a month, and the ability to return for 365 days after a full price purchase is very attractive. I decided to go for A90D (still the less expensive of the 2 even full price vs 3XP open box) and if I am not satisfied I will return it and buy the 3XP.


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## jlemaster1957 (Sep 10, 2022)

Separate idea, back on topic: I continue to think too much probably about which DAC I will pair with the A90D. I am —very— drawn towards the Gustard X26 Pro, and the reviews are fairly glowing; however, for the same reason cited in the last post I am also strongly thinking about the D90SE, which may be good enough for me given my kit, which does not include particularly high-end headphones, e.g. Arya, LCD-X, Drop 6XX and Clear OG, that’s it. Decisions, decisions. 

While I continue to explore possibilities and think through options, I’m considering connecting the A90D, once it arrives, to my IFI micro IDSD signature via RCA, which has a Burr-Brown chip, and my Hiby R8, which has balanced line-out 4.4 mm via a dual 3-pin XLR into the A90D. The R8 has a very good DAC, based on AKM 4493 architecture, that may be a nice alternative to to the X26Pro or D90SE 9038 DACs. I may get an EXT90 so I can just switch between the XLR inputs. Of course, that may tie me to the A90D going forwards.


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## TheDeafMonk

jlemaster1957 said:


> Separate idea, back on topic: I continue to think too much probably about which DAC I will pair with the A90D. I am —very— drawn towards the Gustard X26 Pro, and the reviews are fairly glowing; however, for the same reason cited in the last post I am also strongly thinking about the D90SE, which may be good enough for me given my kit, which does not include particularly high-end headphones, e.g. Arya, LCD-X, Drop 6XX and Clear OG, that’s it. Decisions, decisions.
> 
> While I continue to explore possibilities and think through options, I’m considering connecting the A90D, once it arrives, to my IFI micro IDSD signature via RCA, which has a Burr-Brown chip, and my Hiby R8, which has balanced line-out 4.4 mm via a dual 3-pin XLR into the A90D. The R8 has a very good DAC, based on AKM 4493 architecture, that may be a nice alternative to to the X26Pro or D90SE 9038 DACs. I may get an EXT90 so I can just switch between the XLR inputs. Of course, that may tie me to the A90D going forwards.


Also look at the Geshelli J2 AKM4493 wicked reviews . Personally I love the simplicity and looks ? With the A90D going to be a great pairing.I will give my thoughts once I get both in.


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## borkenarrou

TheDeafMonk said:


> Also look at the Geshelli J2 AKM4493 wicked reviews . Personally I love the simplicity and looks ? With the A90D going to be a great pairing.I will give my thoughts once I get both in.


+1 for the J2 AKM version, also heard good things about the AUNE X8 XVIII (with Sparkos opamp), both these had been compared with the D90SE at much lower price points.


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## ericx85

So I got my friends a90D today, along with his gustard x26 pro because he said its very impressive for a d/s dac.

Something strange with the A90D, the X26 and my Holo May sound almost indistinguishable from each other on this amp. But on my Soloist GT, theres a very audible difference between the two. This also happens when upsampling on the May. With the GT theres an audible difference between 44.1 vs upsampling to 1.5mhz. On the A90D I can barely tell any difference. Going to need some more time with it as these are just early impressions.


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## drspeter

ericx85 said:


> So I got my friends a90D today, along with his gustard x26 pro because he said its very impressive for a d/s dac.
> 
> Something strange with the A90D, the X26 and my Holo May sound almost indistinguishable from each other on this amp. But on my Soloist GT, theres a very audible difference between the two. This also happens when upsampling on the May. With the GT theres an audible difference between 44.1 vs upsampling to 1.5mhz. On the A90D I can barely tell any difference. Going to need some more time with it as these are just early impressions.


Interesting. Do those dacs sound better with GT as well (should be given the price gap is huge)? I have a x26pro and a90d combo as well so curious to hear what your further impression would follow. 👍


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## Slim1970

ericx85 said:


> So I got my friends a90D today, along with his gustard x26 pro because he said its very impressive for a d/s dac.
> 
> Something strange with the A90D, the X26 and my Holo May sound almost indistinguishable from each other on this amp. But on my Soloist GT, theres a very audible difference between the two. This also happens when upsampling on the May. With the GT theres an audible difference between 44.1 vs upsampling to 1.5mhz. On the A90D I can barely tell any difference. Going to need some more time with it as these are just early impressions.


With the GT, you should be able to hear more of what the DAC is doing due it being more transparent. It’s also a better designed, higher performing amp.


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## Arniesb

Slim1970 said:


> With the GT, you should be able to hear more of what the DAC is doing due it being more transparent. It’s also a better designed, higher performing amp.


More transparent = least distortion, but GT is distortion machine.
Its like calling tube amp transparent.


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## ericx85

Arniesb said:


> More transparent = least distortion, but GT is distortion machine.
> Its like calling tube amp transparent.


Pretty much what Arniesb is saying. I have no doubt the GT is a distortion factory considering how the 3xp measures.



drspeter said:


> Interesting. Do those dacs sound better with GT as well (should be given the price gap is huge)? I have a x26pro and a90d combo as well so curious to hear what your further impression would follow. 👍


They do sound better on the GT easily. But I'm more curious as to why the dacs sound more different on it. I can only guess off the top of my head that the GTs distortion effects the differences between the two more where as by themselves they really arent much different.


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## Slim1970

Arniesb said:


> More transparent = least distortion, but GT is distortion machine.
> Its like calling tube amp transparent.


That is not what I hear, but ymmv.


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## drspeter

ericx85 said:


> Pretty much what Arniesb is saying. I have no doubt the GT is a distortion factory considering how the 3xp measures.
> 
> 
> They do sound better on the GT easily. But I'm more curious as to why the dacs sound more different on it. I can only guess off the top of my head that the GTs distortion effects the differences between the two more where as by themselves they really arent much different.


Yeah.. those are delta sigma and R2R respectively so hard for me to anticipate a similar sound signature. I thought that a90d is transparent in a sense that it shows the characters of dac without adding any color or flavor to it. So it is interesting that you heard similar out of those two dacs through a90d...


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## ericx85

drspeter said:


> Yeah.. those are delta sigma and R2R respectively so hard for me to anticipate a similar sound signature. I thought that a90d is transparent in a sense that it shows the characters of dac without adding any color or flavor to it. So it is interesting that you heard similar out of those two dacs through a90d...


I may just have weird ears. Once I'm home i'll listen more. A90D doesn't sound bad though. I can't see anyone not being happy with it. It really is too good for its price in my opinion.


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## jlemaster1957

ericx85 said:


> So I got my friends a90D today, along with his gustard x26 pro because he said its very impressive for a d/s dac.
> 
> Something strange with the A90D, the X26 and my Holo May sound almost indistinguishable from each other on this amp. But on my Soloist GT, theres a very audible difference between the two. This also happens when upsampling on the May. With the GT theres an audible difference between 44.1 vs upsampling to 1.5mhz. On the A90D I can barely tell any difference. Going to need some more time with it as these are just early impressions.


I actually take this as a positive encouragement re the quality of the X26 Pro- ie that on a fairly transparent amp like the A90D the May sounds about the same. If only Headphones.com would start to carry Gustard products! (365 day trial period for full price items).


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## drspeter

ericx85 said:


> I may just have weird ears. Once I'm home i'll listen more. A90D doesn't sound bad though. I can't see anyone not being happy with it. It really is too good for its price in my opinion.


Haha everyone hears differently so no one has weird ears. Thus I really appreciate impressions from others. 😘


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## fortunate son (Sep 22, 2022)

De7mi said:


> Great feedback! I have the same stack as you, A90D/D90LE and I used it with the susvara and He6se v2 and can agree to what you say. To get better performance out of them at a lower volume I would suggest the following:
> 1- Make the D90LE at a fixed volume (DAC mode)
> 2- increase the voltage of the D90LE from V4 to V5.
> 3- use FLAC files or high quality lossless on Roon or Audirvāna or any other great player.
> ...



I hope to see more impressions concerning the use of the Discrete versus other solid state amps with HE6 and HE6SE.


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## teknorob23

Just pulled the trigger on an a90d on next day delivery from amazon as I’m super curious to hear how it runs my Diana TCs. So far I’ve only managed to get them to sing out of my agd speaker amps, but I’m hoping the topping might be solution for my workshop rig. Has anyone else here tried it with the TCs?


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## TheDeafMonk

teknorob23 said:


> Just pulled the trigger on an a90d on next day delivery from amazon as I’m super curious to hear how it runs my Diana TCs. So far I’ve only managed to get them to sing out of my agd speaker amps, but I’m hoping the topping might be solution for my workshop rig. Has anyone else here tried it with the TCs?


Next day delivery I have been waiting weeks they said backordered you lucky dog and congratulations!


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## teknorob23

TheDeafMonk said:


> Next day delivery I have been waiting weeks they said backordered you lucky dog and congratulations!



More of a fluke than anything. I must have had a look for one on Amazon at some, because they sent me a fishing email this morning saying it was available on prime. I’m sorry you’ve had such a wait hopefully it won’t be too much longer!


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## jlemaster1957

teknorob23 said:


> More of a fluke than anything. I must have had a look for one on Amazon at some, because they sent me a fishing email this morning saying it was available on prime. I’m sorry you’ve had such a wait hopefully it won’t be too much longer!


Ordered mine from Headphones.com and they’re just in. I had to wait also but only about a week. Pairing it with D90SE. Waiting on Mogami Studio Gold XLRs to arrive before firing them up. Enjoy with the Diana TCs. I’m curious how it will play with IEMs, eg EE LX and 64 Audio U12T.


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## Tonza (Sep 16, 2022)

Got this amp a couple days ago and like it a lot so far. Sounds very detailed and clean which is what I want. For my headphones, clean and transparent amp works the best in my opinion. Running balanced, low gain between 40-50 is enough for normal listening volume with the Empy and Celestee.

One thing I've noticed though is that when changing gain levels or putting the unit to standby (without playing anything) you can hear a very quiet pop through headphones (barely audible) connected via XLR or 4.4mm. Is it the same for other people with the amp? It doesn't really bother me since it's quiet and I don't change gain that often but I wonder if it's normal.


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## jlemaster1957

Tonza said:


> Got this amp a couple days ago and like it a lot so far. Sounds very detailed and clean which is what I want. For my headphones, clean and transparent amp works the best in my opinion. Running balanced, low gain between 40-50 is enough for normal listening volume with the Empy and Celestee.
> 
> One thing I've noticed though is that when changing gain levels (without playing anything) you can hear a very quiet pop through headphones (barely audible) connected via XLR. Is it the same for other people with the amp? It doesn't really bother me since it's quiet and I don't change gain that often but I wonder if it's normal.


This was described earlier in the thread, but was particularly a problem with the SE out port. A firmware update supposedly addressed. Ideally one would change gain levels when the unit is turned off and headphones not attached but given for this unit it is done via the remote not a physical switch I’m not sure it can be adjusted that way.


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## Tonza

jlemaster1957 said:


> This was described earlier in the thread, but was particularly a problem with the SE out port. A firmware update supposedly addressed. Ideally one would change gain levels when the unit is turned off and headphones not attached but given for this unit it is done via the remote not a physical switch I’m not sure it can be adjusted that way.



Noticed the issues with single ended pops (loud?) and shut off when connecting but didn't on balanced output. I did update the firmware to newest and it still happens. I noticed it also happens when putting the unit to standby or on. (Also tried with 4.4mm and its the same) It is a really quiet pop though.


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## jlemaster1957 (Sep 17, 2022)

Tonza said:


> Noticed the issues with single ended pops (loud?) and shut off when connecting but didn't on balanced output. I did update the firmware to newest and it still happens. I noticed it also happens when putting the unit to standby or on. (Also tried with 4.4mm and its the same) It is a really quiet pop though.


A while back there was an extensive exchange on the Burson soloist 3XP amp thread on the headphones.com forum, after 3 separate users reportedly had HPs destroyed while using it. I share the following that was advice from techs and that thread. This will not fix your problem if there is an electrical fault, and it might be better to initiate a warranty claim (and find out there is nothing wrong) than take a chance

“1. Always Insert/remove iems and HPS when the device is turned down and static discharged- never insert/remove while turned up or playing music.
2. If you do not choose to leave your HPs and IEMs connected when turning the unit off or on (there are some who claim that doing so is more likely to lead to damage due to electrical surge in the process of turning the unit on or off)  remove HPs before off and insert after turning on but with volume to 0 and press ‘ mute’ in low Gain before inserting/removing.
3. If you choose to leave HPs/IEMs attached during the on/off procedure, Turn volume to minimum and gain to low on all devices  before turning off and after turning on (if it resets automatically)
And always turn your gear on in the following order:


Source
DAC
Amp
And then turn the gear off in reverse order:


Amp
DAC
Source
Typically damage occurs when you turn the source on/off while the amp is turned up, and it generates a volume spike which is then amplified by the amp to the point where it exceeds the capabilities of the headphones. Using this procedure should eliminate any risk of equipment damage.“

Probably a happy medium would be turning the amp on, turning gain to low, muting it, and then plugging the headphones in, and avoid ever playing music when inserting or removing IEMs/HPs to avoid any potential issues that could occur as the headphones are being plugged in with live current in the amp.

After the Soloist users adopted this approach to my knowledge there have been no further reported issues. But that was not the A90D/- if there is an inherent design flaw (or even a technical error in some units) it would be good to find that out.


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## Umwelt

Jeez, having to jump through so many hoops with your headphone gear and wearing down plugs with constant disconnecting and reconnecting is no way to live. It shouldn't be necessary at all (and in fact it isn't with most stuff out there...).


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## velemar1

Wanted to grab one of these as the hype surrounding the new a90 was intense thanks to Zeos and Joshua Valour. However, I heard that the hype is overblown and Topping amps are just as lifeless as ever with only slight improvements. I sold my A30 Pro for this reason way back in favor of a Jotunheim 2 and never looked back. What a difference that made.


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## Tonza

jlemaster1957 said:


> A while back there was an extensive exchange on the Burson soloist 3XP amp thread on the headphones.com forum, after 3 separate users reportedly had HPs destroyed while using it. I share the following that was advice from techs and that thread. This will not fix your problem if there is an electrical fault, and it might be better to initiate a warranty claim (and find out there is nothing wrong) than take a chance
> 
> “1. Always Insert/remove iems and HPS when the device is turned down and static discharged- never insert/remove while turned up or playing music.
> 2. If you do not choose to leave your HPs and IEMs connected when turning the unit off or on (there are some who claim that doing so is more likely to lead to damage due to electrical surge in the process of turning the unit on or off)  remove HPs before off and insert after turning on but with volume to 0 and press ‘ mute’ in low Gain before inserting/removing.
> ...



Thank you, I'll use those precautions for now. I reached out to Topping customer service and they wanted me to try without a source connected (I did and it's still there). I'll wait and see what they reply. Good that I got it from local dealer so warranty/return shouldn't be an issue if it comes to that. The pop doesn't seem to be volume dependent and I can really only hear it if it's quiet but given that single ended has already destroyed a headphone, I want to be sure its not dangerous.


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## jlemaster1957

velemar1 said:


> Wanted to grab one of these as the hype surrounding the new a90 was intense thanks to Zeos and Joshua Valour. However, I heard that the hype is overblown and Topping amps are just as lifeless as ever with only slight improvements. I sold my A30 Pro for this reason way back in favor of a Jotunheim 2 and never looked back. What a difference that made.


I have wondered if this might be the case but FOMO you know- so I ordered my A90D from headphones.com in the US and I have a year to try it out. If it really is lifeless and flat I will return it and upgrade, though probably not to a Jot2. I’ve read really good things about the Bryston BHA-1 and they sometimes come onto the Classifieds for a lot cheaper than new (new is ~$2500).


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## teknorob23

My early feedback on a90d ownership is to share my sheer exasperation at the lack of its predecessors physical switches which have been replaced by ludicrous remote control, which requires code breaking skills to fathom and switching between, pre and hp amp of xlr/rca. Getting the function your after feels like entirely pot luck. If it wasn’t Saturday night it would be in the post back to amazon.


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## TheDeafMonk

teknorob23 said:


> My early feedback on a90d ownership is to share my sheer exasperation at the lack of its predecessors physical switches which have been replaced by ludicrous remote control, which requires code breaking skills to fathom and switching between, pre and hp amp of xlr/rca. Getting the function your after feels like entirely pot luck. If it wasn’t Saturday night it would be in the post back to amazon.


All Quedelix 5K owners are saying like me No big Deal I got this!


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## chaotic_angel

XLR2XLR said:


> I'm very impressed by the Topping stack: U90->D90LE->A90D. It's precise, powerful, and musical. The A90D has enough juice to make the Susvara sing. I never wanted to EQ this chain with these headphones. A90D is a great solid state amp for its price. I definitely cannot call it "flat-sounding, overly-analytical or lifeless". A very enjoyable experience!


Hi I can see you have Singxer SA1 too, thats awesome. Please tell us, in the same chain what would be the differences in sound and technicalities between sa1 vs a90d?


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## ezduzit2500

Arniesb said:


> More transparent = least distortion, but GT is distortion machine.
> Its like calling tube amp transparent.


Not necessarily. An amp can be uber-transparent but still have more _2nd or 3rd order _distortion. Generally, transparency may be more closely-linked to having a _revealing _quality (or less background noise) vs having less distortion. Consequently, an amp can have _vanishingly-low_ distortion but still be less revealing compared to a more transparent (or quieter) amp that has more distortion. The two are different.......


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## Arniesb

ezduzit2500 said:


> Not necessarily. An amp can be uber-transparent but still have more _2nd or 3rd order _distortion. Generally, transparency may be more closely-linked to having a _revealing _quality (or less background noise) vs having less distortion. Consequently, an amp can have _vanishingly-low_ distortion but still be less revealing compared to a more transparent (or quieter) amp that has more distortion. The two are different.......


Gt doesnt have lower noise or lower distortion in any shape of form.
Why cant people just admit that they like simply like distortion instead of talking nosense?


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## Currawong

Arniesb said:


> Gt doesnt have lower noise or lower distortion in any shape of form.
> Why cant people just admit that they like simply like distortion instead of talking nosense?


Well, you like distortion too... it's called "music". It's made by causing the air to distort by vibrating things in ways we find pleasant.


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## borkenarrou

Are many people experiencing shipping delays for the A90D, I ordered from Aliexpress mid of Aug, my shipping date is getting postponed again and again.


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## TheDeafMonk (Sep 24, 2022)

borkenarrou said:


> Are many people experiencing shipping delays for the A90D, I ordered from Aliexpress mid of Aug, my shipping date is getting postponed again and again.


Yes mine just shipped today ordered over a month ago come on FEDEX go go go . Topping was sold out to many great reviews not a bad problem to have I guess.


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## borkenarrou

TheDeafMonk said:


> Yes mine just shipped today ordered over a month ago come on FEDEX go go go . Topping was sold out to many great reviews not a bad problem to have I guess.



Yay mine is shipped today as well 🙂, they changed the previous DHL tracking no for some reason. It seems many sellers (in Aliexpress) don't keep ready stock and only place their B2B orders once enough customer orders have been placed.


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## ezduzit2500

Arniesb said:


> Gt doesnt have lower noise or lower distortion in any shape of form.
> Why cant people just admit that they like simply like distortion instead of talking nosense?


Who on Earth may you be talking about, LOL???


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## borkenarrou (Sep 27, 2022)

I got a Europian type power cord (no ground on the plug), looks like a regular PC cord, any particular guage and amp recommended for the A90D? I dont see any specs on their website.


----------



## bust3r

How does this topping compare to the topping D90LE?  Looking for a new DAC, stumbled into this thread.


----------



## borkenarrou

bust3r said:


> How does this topping compare to the topping D90LE?  Looking for a new DAC, stumbled into this thread.


This is a headphone amplifier not a DAC.


----------



## bust3r (Sep 27, 2022)

borkenarrou said:


> This is a headphone amplifier not a DAC.


Oh jeez.  I should have paid better attention, got this confused with the D90LE.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Sep 28, 2022)

Finally I have got A90 discrete set up and did an extensive listening session using D90SE (set to 00 Db output, BT=off, output V =5, connected to A90D via Mogami Studio Gold XLR 3’ cables.   HPs are HIFIMAN Arya via 4.4 mm A90D output, gain is M). I used stock power and USB cables and no power conditioning, listening on a dedicated power line.  Burn in was only 24 hours. Comparison  is to Hiby R8, Turbo = on —> Cayin C9 (4.4 mm balanced input on SS Class AB with no tubes).
Tracks were Fruhlingsgefuhle by Melokind, Magnetar by Mark Lettieri, Beldiya by Triplego, Twice by Ludovici Einaudi (Reimagined by Mercan Dede) Lifted by Love by KD Lang, Drover by Bill Callahan. I listened through all tracks twice.

Disclosure- this is my first desktop stack other than the IFi Zen stack (DAC V2 and CAN). I have the IFI micro I DSD Signature also. But I am mostly a DAP man, so that’s why I am comparing the Stack to a DAP, albeit a TOTL one. Cayin C9 is of course a stand alone portable analogue amp.

I was immediately struck by the difference in the overall smoothness and detail retrieval especially in the treble region. There are details not discernible on tbe R8-C9 combo that can I can hear, way high, ie snare brush strokes but also breathy vocalizations or wind-like sounds that are elevated by the D90SE-A90D combo. Some softer instruments that had been hidden in the mix with R8-C9 were now more distinguishable on the Topping stack. Treble was also more forward, I was noticing a lot more snappy, crispy, sparkly details up top, especially on percussion instruments- transients were perfectly timed. OTOH as noted treble is smooth, I heard no harshness or sibilance, nor is it shouty or shrill - lower treble in the vocal range is clear, breathy, consonants are forward but really just right.

This all continues down into the mids, which are very real and present. Voices are forward- intimate even, but not ‘in the head’ and when soft it’s like they are whispering in my ear or just behind it- more of this under imaging. No issues here of concern, balance with bass and treble is perfect

Bass- on R8-C9 bass quantity was always strong, but with The Stack I am hearing a lot more bass detail,  as well as loads of rumble and slam (read: lots), I think sub-bass rumble is in fact more - but with an important caveat. Roon DSP allows me to dial up a bass shelf, and the Topping Stack scales up on this impressively- I encourage you to try it.  The bass control I had wanted, hoped for is -THERE- . This is really noticeable on Bill Callahan's Drover- kind of a test track for physical drums. With the Roon bass shelf ( below 60 Hz m, + 4 DB) those drums are right in the room with me. Mid-bass (especially bass guitar) vibration is palpable. Bass remains forward but there is zero bleed or suppression of lower mids now. Micro-dynamics (max bass to max blackness in between bass drops) is excellent, decay seems a bit faster than with R8-C9. This is particularly impressive given that the Aryas are not a particularly bass-y set.

In terms of staging and separation overall, as I've already I think made clear, the Stack has it in spades- instrument separation and space between instruments across the FR is crystal clear. Stage width was a BIT narrower for  the Stack vs R8-C9 —about as deep as it is wide- literally like a small performance stage, and I am sitting in the front row.  The preciseness of instrument or vocals location on that stage was crystal clear, with greater instrument separation than I noticed with R8-C9. Having said that,instrument separation was still great with R8-C9-  the Stack just dials it up -  again the difference to me is in the details I can hear coming from A90D. Having said all that, the smoothness, a musicality, and coherence I have always loved from R8-C9 is still present on A90D.

One final thing - this Stack is so smooth that is tempting to listen to it very loud- as there is no distortion or pain when doing so. I was getting up to over 80 on the Volume dial and it sounded = great! Be careful out there.

Conclusion- the A90D pairs wonderfully with D90SE across the FR, and can transmit detail and (with a bit of EQ) impressive impact and dynamism, and serve it up smooth as silk. I can’t say how it will pair with other DACs - I will check it directly vs C9 using the IFI micro iDSD Signature connected to both A90D and C9 via RCA dual-> single 3.5 mm cable . More soon..


----------



## Currawong

jlemaster1957 said:


> Finally I have got A90 discrete set up and did an extensive listening session using D90SE (set to 00 Db output, BT=off, output V =5, connected to A90D via Mogami Studio Gold XLR 3’ cables.   HPs are HIFIMAN Arya via 4.4 mm A90D output, gain is M). I used stock power and USB cables and no power conditioning, listening on a dedicated power line.  Burn in was only 24 hours. Comparison  is to Hiby R8, Turbo = on —> Cayin C9 (4.4 mm balanced input on SS Class AB with no tubes).
> Tracks were Fruhlingsgefuhle by Melokind, Magnetar by Mark Lettieri, Beldiya by Triplego, Twice by Ludovici Einaudi (Reimagined by Mercan Dede) Lifted by Love by KD Lang, Drover by Bill Callahan. I listened through all tracks twice.
> 
> Disclosure- this is my first desktop stack other than the IFi Zen stack (DAC V2 and CAN). I have the IFI micro I DSD Signature also. But I am mostly a DAP man, so that’s why I am comparing the Stack to a DAP, albeit a TOTL one. Cayin C9 is of course a stand alone portable analogue amp.
> ...


What was your USB source? The R8?


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Sep 28, 2022)

Currawong said:


> What was your USB source? The R8?


For A90D it was Roon streaming USB from a Sonore MicroRendu connected to a Google Wifi extender. For R8 music was streaming directly (to R8 no USB) via wifi signal on the same network. So different streaming method though analogous signal. I guess to be as equal as possible I should connect R8 to the Sonore via USB to make the comparison. I will try that to see if any thing changes in the impression. Thanks for mentioning. 

Btw not making claims for technical equivalence or scientific measurements here- just trying to provide a user impression that is as methodical as I knew how to do. I am still learning and thankful for any guidance provided. 

Maybe the main finding i had that I haven’t read before is that A90D is channeling DSP/Eq well, while retaining its own technicalities particulars (as expected).


----------



## jlemaster1957

New review by Soundnews including YT vid
https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/topping-a90-discrete-review-forging-ahead/


----------



## Blackrao

fortunate son said:


> I hope to see more impressions concerning the use of the Discrete versus other solid state amps with HE6 and HE6SE.



Hi reviewed the Topping A90D with Topping D90se Dac with the He6sev2 and quite frankly its an amazing combo. The A90D has much better bass response than previous version


----------



## Mista Lova Lova

ericx85 said:


> So I got my friends a90D today, along with his gustard x26 pro because he said its very impressive for a d/s dac.
> 
> Something strange with the A90D, the X26 and my Holo May sound almost indistinguishable from each other on this amp. But on my Soloist GT, theres a very audible difference between the two. This also happens when upsampling on the May. With the GT theres an audible difference between 44.1 vs upsampling to 1.5mhz. On the A90D I can barely tell any difference. Going to need some more time with it as these are just early impressions.


This is very interesting because in my "review" many pages ago I was comparing the OG A90 with the A90 Discrete, I actually also own a Gustard X26 Pro and was switching between it and a D90 (AKM). On the original A90 the differences between the DACs were more immediately apparent than on the A90 Discrete. Having read/watched some more reviews now with some people claiming that the A90D (Soundnews) is Topping's attempt not to sound so "flat" - it makes me think that this amp is slightly coloured, hence not as transparent as the OG which would explain why it was harder to hear the differences between DACs. If I had an issue with my DAC then I might have preferred the Discrete version but since the Gustard, especially with external upsampling, is wonderful - I ended up enjoying the OG A90 more and sending the DIscrete back.


----------



## TheDeafMonk

Just got mine in today and first listen with the Geshelli JNOG J2 AKM I love it wicked synergy, smooth with authority and more bottom end.


----------



## KPzypher

Just ordered A90d thru APOS.  Although I am perfectly happy with my OG A90, I don't get enough volume control with many of my studio monitoring HPs that are low impedance/high sensitivity, as I am a very low volume listener. Not expecting any meaningful changes in SQ. One thing I'll miss though is the toggle switches.

PM me if anyone wants an excellent deal on the OG A90 (black).  I plan on adding it to the classified once the discrete model arrives.


----------



## Povell42 (Sep 29, 2022)

Question:  I have had my A90 D for a week or so.  Specs show some massive power through balanced headphone amp (9800 mW @ 16 ohm).  However, I seem to need the volume level to be at in the 50's for a decent listening level, while my "less mW rated amps" are only @ like 9 or 10 O'clock (like at 25%-35%)  knob position. ??

If I put my the THX AAA 789 or Aune X7S headphone amp to "50%" or 12 0'Clock they are at very, very loud volume levels.  This leaves me with the feeling that the Topping A90D is weaker or has less headroom in comparison.  From what I have seen it isn't uncommon to see people putting the volume level @ 50 - 80 (equivalent of 50% - 80%) on balanced headphone output.

Any thoughts, as I bought this with several reviews saying it has beastly power and can drive any headphone with ease?

And to confirm... I am on volume curve 1, on High gain on the A90 D


----------



## uckexk

Povell42 said:


> Question:  I have had my A90 D for a week or so.  Specs show some massive power through balanced headphone amp (9800 mW @ 16 ohm).  However, I seem to need the volume level to be at in the 50's for a decent listening level, while my "less mW rated amps" are only @ like 9 or 10 O'clock (like at 25%-35%)  knob position. ??
> 
> If I put my the THX AAA 789 or Aune X7S headphone amp to "50%" or 12 0'Clock they are at very, very loud volume levels.  This leaves me with the feeling that the Topping A90D is weaker or has less headroom in comparison.  From what I have seen it isn't uncommon to see people putting the volume level @ 50 - 80 (equivalent of 50% - 80%) on balanced headphone output.
> 
> Any thoughts, as I bought this with several reviews saying it has beastly power and can drive any headphone with ease?


Pot position isn't a good indicator of amp power output percentage. Pots on different amps behave differently.

A90D has a logarithmic pot. A volume increase of 10 in most cases would translate to a 10dB or 10x multiplication in power output. At 50 volume it has an attenuation of -40dB, which means it only outputs 0.01% of its max potential. That's the nature of logarithmic volume control.


----------



## BowWazoo

Thanks to my Chinese friends from AliExpress for this beautiful plug.


----------



## jlemaster1957

Mista Lova Lova said:


> This is very interesting because in my "review" many pages ago I was comparing the OG A90 with the A90 Discrete, I actually also own a Gustard X26 Pro and was switching between it and a D90 (AKM). On the original A90 the differences between the DACs were more immediately apparent than on the A90 Discrete. Having read/watched some more reviews now with some people claiming that the A90D (Soundnews) is Topping's attempt not to sound so "flat" - it makes me think that this amp is slightly coloured, hence not as transparent as the OG which would explain why it was harder to hear the differences between DACs. If I had an issue with my DAC then I might have preferred the Discrete version but since the Gustard, especially with external upsampling, is wonderful - I ended up enjoying the OG A90 more and sending the DIscrete back.


Question ; for either A90D or A90, did the wide/deep sound stage of which X26 is famous project via these amps? If yes, pls describe here  about imaging and stage using either of them.


----------



## jlemaster1957

Povell42 said:


> Question:  I have had my A90 D for a week or so.  Specs show some massive power through balanced headphone amp (9800 mW @ 16 ohm).  However, I seem to need the volume level to be at in the 50's for a decent listening level, while my "less mW rated amps" are only @ like 9 or 10 O'clock (like at 25%-35%)  knob position. ??
> 
> If I put my the THX AAA 789 or Aune X7S headphone amp to "50%" or 12 0'Clock they are at very, very loud volume levels.  This leaves me with the feeling that the Topping A90D is weaker or has less headroom in comparison.  From what I have seen it isn't uncommon to see people putting the volume level @ 50 - 80 (equivalent of 50% - 80%) on balanced headphone output.
> 
> ...


What DAC are you using? Remember the Rule of 8s - the input impedance of your amplifier must be at least 8 x higher than the output impedance of your DAC. A90D has input impedance of only 2k ohms for balanced. So if your DAC has an output impedance of anything greater than 250 ohms via balanced output, you’re going to need a pre-amp.


----------



## BowWazoo

@Povell42 

The position of the volume control says nothing about the max. power of an amplifier. It also does not allow direct comparisons, as you have done.
The volume control of the A90D, can also be adjusted in five steps with respect to its sensitivity.


----------



## Povell42 (Sep 29, 2022)

jlemaster1957 said:


> What DAC are you using? Remember the Rule of 8s - the input impedance of your amplifier must be at least 8 x higher than the output impedance of your DAC. A90D has input impedance of only 2k ohms for balanced. So if your DAC has an output impedance of anything greater than 250 ohms via balanced output, you’re going to need a pre-amp.


Currently using my Geshelli Labs ENOG 2 Pro DAC in the highest output voltage.  I have been interested in the Denafrips Ares ii.


----------



## Povell42 (Sep 29, 2022)

BowWazoo said:


> @Povell42
> 
> The position of the volume control says nothing about the max. power of an amplifier. It also does not allow direct comparisons, as you have done.
> The volume control of the A90D, can also be adjusted in five steps with respect to its sensitivity.


I do have the A90D on volume curve 1, on High gain. 

I was assuming that the way the R2R volume control works, handled the mW level differently.  I guess its a phycological effect for me.  

So, the A90D has an exponential volume curve, while the other my be more linear? Is that a mathematical way to explain it?  I get a little confused with translating all the electrical type explanations.


----------



## BowWazoo

It is always the question which gain the manufacturer has chosen before the amp output stage.
In addition, the bal. input signal must be 4Vrms. 
If an album is mastered quietly, like the Mo-Fi stuff for example, your at 100 and must still work with the preamp gain (if you can).
The power specifications are already credible.


----------



## jlemaster1957

Povell42 said:


> Currently using my Geshelli Labs ENOG 2 Pro DAC in the highest output voltage.  I have been interested in the Denafrips Ares ii.


I sound this conversation in ASR helpful to my understanding on this topic. You might want to find additional sources. Note that if you go with Ares II you will need a different Pre-Amp than Pre90 as it has the same input impedance as A90D. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-ares-ii-topping-pre90-impedance-issue.34939/


----------



## Povell42 (Sep 29, 2022)

I am starting to realize going with a "separate component" set-up, while intermixing brands gets confusing.  While the headphone amp in the A90D is something I was interested in.... The inspiration to purchased it was to act as a preamp to my speaker amps. I am waiting on my Orchard Audio Starkrimson mono block amps to arrive and I plan to use the A90D as its preamp.   So needing to pre-amp my A90D "preamp" sounds redundant. 
Does anyone know if the A90D preamp feature would be a good match for the Orchard Audio, Starkrimson Monoblock amps - I got the 21.5dB upgrade, with the 300W GaN power supply.  I know the A90D Preamp (balanced output) has a 40 ohm load impedance. The input impedance for the amps is 44k.   

Can someone with the knowledge confirm that those impendences match well? or will I have any issues with synergy?


----------



## TheDeafMonk (Sep 29, 2022)

I nearly max out the A90D with Hifiman HE400-i can't figure out why it's not loud . Gain H and Gain step is set at 1?

USB out laptop exclusive mode and J2 DAC XLR in to A90D SE out to HE400i volume loudest?

What I am doing wrong?

Edit at 73 it gets loud and 82 really loud is it me normal?
Sounds freaking awesome with the AK4493 J2 omg

Edit #2 - Out of the Hiby R6 2020 Gain High Volume at 100,  I can max out volume on the A90D something's wrong the A90 was supposed to have crap loads of power?


----------



## Currawong

The volume controls voltage gain, not current gain. Power, in Watts, is voltage x current. 

This is why you can get a static shock of millions of volts, but it wont kill you, yet a 110 (or 220) V power point will. The latter has vastly more power.


----------



## Tonza (Sep 30, 2022)

TheDeafMonk said:


> I nearly max out the A90D with Hifiman HE400-i can't figure out why it's not loud . Gain H and Gain step is set at 1?
> 
> USB out laptop exclusive mode and J2 DAC XLR in to A90D SE out to HE400i volume loudest?
> 
> ...



I'm not an expert on power but seems like the J2 output is rated at 2.5Vrms even on XLR (though they don't seem to list that on their website so not sure about that). Commonly the output power of amps are measured with 4Vrms input. But again someone with more knowledge could shed more light how that would affect the output power.

So far I've been enjoying this amp quite a bit. I tend to have it on low gain around volume 50 for my headphones. (Balanced in and out)


----------



## hjf3Gd

TheDeafMonk said:


> I nearly max out the A90D with Hifiman HE400-i can't figure out why it's not loud . Gain H and Gain step is set at 1?
> 
> USB out laptop exclusive mode and J2 DAC XLR in to A90D SE out to HE400i volume loudest?
> 
> ...


I received my J2 yesterday - just checking, have you set the output on the J2 to the highest? I think that may be what you mean by gain step, so I'm sure you have. My Heddphones are loud enough at 60 on the A90D, haven't gone above 70. Love the J2/A90D combination so far.....


----------



## TheDeafMonk

hjf3Gd said:


> I received my J2 yesterday - just checking, have you set the output on the J2 to the highest? I think that may be what you mean by gain step, so I'm sure you have. My Heddphones are loud enough at 60 on the A90D, haven't gone above 70. Love the J2/A90D combination so far.....


My J2 is set at the loudest one led blink. I have a balanced cable coming that should help for the headphones. I think the He400I are power pigs.


----------



## jlemaster1957

_I was concerned on the other end that there may be too much power for IEMs but that’s not the case at all. Running A90D connected to D90SE (unity gain , 5V out connected by 3’ Mogami Studio Gold XLRs) on L gain I can dial up volume into the 50s with no problem at all- even 80 is not too loud. No hiss anywhere in sight. No problem IEM users! _


----------



## jbarrentine

I have interest in this amp as a 789 upgrade but the SE pops and dead Arya give me pause. I seem to remember having a lowly topping amp die on me when I first started headphones. I don't know if I trust their QC. 
Spending $600 and getting something with Topping printed on it just seems wrong in some way. 

For what it's worth I'm with the objectivists and think that a lot of people just like how distortion sounds. Anyway, it does make for a spicy thread


----------



## Povell42

TheDeafMonk said:


> My J2 is set at the loudest one led blink. I have a balanced cable coming that should help for the headphones. I think the He400I are power pigs.



If you are running them on SE output, that is a significant amount on mW lower than balanced output on the A90D.  

I can get in the 80/90's volume with my Fostex T50 with lager pads, on the SE output.

Let us know your experience after you get the balanced cable.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Oct 1, 2022)

jbarrentine said:


> I have interest in this amp as a 789 upgrade but the SE pops and dead Arya give me pause. I seem to remember having a lowly topping amp die on me when I first started headphones. I don't know if I trust their QC.
> Spending $600 and getting something with Topping printed on it just seems wrong in some way.
> 
> For what it's worth I'm with the objectivists and think that a lot of people just like how distortion sounds. Anyway, it does make for a spicy thread


Firmware 2.4 update addressed the "popping" and shutting off when inserting/removing plugs from SE, though some are still having the problem. I have had no problems yet (knock on wood). +1 re your concerns about QC; however, pls also see my post #402 on this thread for suggestions to minimize the possibility of a problem. Not sure what you mean about distortion - A90D is one of the cleanest rated amps ever via the measurement folks i.e. ASR- perhaps you mean the 'elevated bass dynamics' some have reported via user impressions?


----------



## jbarrentine

jlemaster1957 said:


> Firmware 2.4 update addressed the "popping" and shutting off when inserting/removing plugs from SE, though some are still having the problem. I have had no problems yet (knock on wood). +1 re your concerns about QC; however, pls also see my post #402 on this thread for suggestions to minimize the possibility of a problem. Not sure what you mean about distortion - A90D is one of the cleanest rated amps ever via the measurement folks i.e. ASR- perhaps you mean the 'elevated bass dynamics' some have reported via user impressions?



re: distortion - I was actually referring to some people not liking amps as clean and objectively well measured as this or the 789 and finding them "thin" "lean" etc. There was a good bi of spicy discussion early in the thread about it. I do understand this is a clean amp with great measurements and that attracts me.


----------



## TheDeafMonk

Povell42 said:


> If you are running them on SE output, that is a significant amount on mW lower than balanced output on the A90D.
> 
> I can get in the 80/90's volume with my Fostex T50 with lager pads, on the SE output.
> 
> Let us know your experience after you get the balanced cable.


Ok new balanced cable in the house and honestly it's a game changer no issue with power now. Problem was all my IEM have balanced cables that I was listening to, and I only had stock SE  cable with the HiFiMan HE-400i. Not only did the stock cable really suck balls but sounds like ass as well! What a real game changer the sound is noticeably cleaner but I find the dynamics are greatly improved as well. Super happy camper here!

Now if I can only get EQ APO to work on Win 11 .


----------



## carlcamper

TheDeafMonk said:


> Ok new balanced cable in the house and honestly it's a game changer no issue with power now. Problem was all my IEM have balanced cables that I was listening to, and I only had stock SE  cable with the HiFiMan HE-400i. Not only did the stock cable really suck balls but sounds like ass as well! What a real game changer the sound is noticeably cleaner but I find the dynamics are greatly improved as well. Super happy camper here!
> 
> Now if I can only get EQ APO to work on Win 11 .


Equalizer APO works on my Win 11 pc. Have you tried installing the alternative drivers? https://bradshacks.com/fix-equalizer-apo-windows-10/


----------



## KPzypher

Time for an upgrade!!


----------



## reter

guys i see that the "balanced" output is better than the standard 6,35mm output, the gain is higher and with impulcifer i get better sounding, maybe is a different circuit?


----------



## jbarrentine

HONEYBOY said:


> Just got the A90 Discrete and I have to say it's doing a stellar job with the Sennheiser HD6XX. I don't think I've heard them sound any better. Clears up the vocals really nicely with excellent bass. This is also super silent with my IEMs: IER-Z1R, U12T and the IE900. Nice looking unit too.



That's nice gear and you're still impressed? Very cool.


----------



## OhmsClaw

Reputator said:


> This is a shockingly arrogant statement.


That's what a SS amp should do. If you want all the other intangibles, use tubes or mess around with R2R DAC's. Even the most esoteric tube guys say pre-amps/front end tubes are the best implementation. I say, get something pretty that glows with a healthy supply of supported back ups and options.

Solid state amps are to provide a clean signal with adequate current, voltage, low OI, and a black background. What's arrogant about that? Would it also be arrogant to claim a Delta Sigma dacs purpose is to convert data into sine waves with a well built reconstruction filter?


----------



## HONEYBOY

jbarrentine said:


> That's nice gear and you're still impressed? Very cool.


Yeah once the right expectations are set, I find it excellent. It doesn't quite have as much refinement, overall depth in the sound stage, and space around the instruments as say the Ferrum Stack. However, the differences are not as dramatic as one might imagine given the price differential.


----------



## Reputator

OhmsClaw said:


> That's what a SS amp should do. If you want all the other intangibles, use tubes or mess around with R2R DAC's. Even the most esoteric tube guys say pre-amps/front end tubes are the best implementation. I say, get something pretty that glows with a healthy supply of supported back ups and options.
> 
> Solid state amps are to provide a clean signal with adequate current, voltage, low OI, and a black background. What's arrogant about that? Would it also be arrogant to claim a Delta Sigma dacs purpose is to convert data into sine waves with a well built reconstruction filter?



What's arrogant about saying there's only one "good sound" and if anyone likes anything else they're enjoying "bad sound"? Gee, I don't know!


----------



## Joong (Oct 14, 2022)

I have A90D, and  can now listen to what Cooper says in "interstellar".
Vocal is much clear than A90 OG, besides everything is better, and movie has been much clear noticeably apparent to me in detail and clarity.
It turns my DT1770 into the clarity level of Arya stealth, which is bulky and leacky so that Arya might retire from my desk.


----------



## InquisitiveLogic

A quick one guys - is Geshelli Labs DAC a good pair with the A90D?

And if using a JDS Labs Atom+ DAC, are we limiting the AMPs performance in any way? 
Or in other words do we really gain anything incremental going for the $1000 bucks D90 DAC?

Don't want to start a fork fight but seriously I am not well averse with this knowledge hence asking!  

Given the fact Atom+ is $99, Geshelli is $250 and D90 is the most expensive.


----------



## jlemaster1957

InquisitiveLogic said:


> A quick one guys - is Geshelli Labs DAC a good pair with the A90D?
> 
> And if using a JDS Labs Atom+ DAC, are we limiting the AMPs performance in any way?
> Or in other words do we really gain anything incremental going for the $1000 bucks D90 DAC?
> ...


Have not heard Geshelli but am considering Gustard R26 (which is even more expensive, there’s a thread on that here) and returning D90SE - which I find not very technically proficient re soundstage if still able to retrieve details and good tonal balance - I think lot depends on the other gear one is using— higher end headphones or speakers can deliver more technical performance and the same goes for amps. A90D is a solid performer and I am very pleased especially with the added bass impact it can deliver. But I am moving on, see my next posting.


----------



## jlemaster1957

Has anyone on this thread had experience using A90D as a preamp for a power amp? I now have Burson 3XP and also (on the way) a Gustard R26 DAC. In pure DAC mode R26 has no volume control and the power amp also needs volume control upstream. R26 has low output impedance and so does A90D, and 3XP very high input impedance (so no impedance mismatch if I use A90D as a preamp between those 2) but am wondering how A90D will impact SQ if I use it this way.


----------



## brianfromspace

Would the A90D benefit from a high end dac like the Sagra DAC from XI Audio, or would the D90LE be sufficient. Im also eyeing the Gustard R26 although the form factor is crap...


----------



## Arniesb

brianfromspace said:


> Would the A90D benefit from a high end dac like the Sagra DAC from XI Audio, or would the D90LE be sufficient. Im also eyeing the Gustard R26 although the form factor is crap...


Everything from that company is outrageously overpriced! Keep in mind that Folks that bought such expensive dac would try to justify its cost no matter what, even if there would be no difference.
Ton of marketing though.
Gustard or almost any chinese company makes products for a fair price, but certainly not Jps labs, Xi Audio or Abyss headphones.


----------



## borkenarrou

Has anyone tried this amp with the HE-1000 V2 and SE, will be great if you can share your impressions.


----------



## Currawong

brianfromspace said:


> Would the A90D benefit from a high end dac like the Sagra DAC from XI Audio, or would the D90LE be sufficient. Im also eyeing the Gustard R26 although the form factor is crap...


If you're  to going to go down the R2R route, then, IMO, I'd get a DAC/amp from Audio-gd, or separates from them, depending on your budget.


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## jlemaster1957 (Oct 23, 2022)

Currawong said:


> If you're  to going to go down the R2R route, then, IMO, I'd get a DAC/amp from Audio-gd, or separates from them, depending on your budget.


@Currawong- first I want to say (for those who may not know your work) how greatly I have appreciated your reviews on YT as a subscriber to your channel. After listening to your review I purchased the CayinC9 portable amp and , N6ii DAP. It’s one of the wonderful things about being on Head-Fi that the top reviewers in the hobby are posting on these threads.

So, I just listened to your review on the Audio-Gd R27HE (who also make the Master 9 and 10 amps), which is an integrated amp that includes Audio-gd R8 DAC and Master 9 amp, and cost of which (R8 Mk2 I mean) is about the same as the Gustard R26. If I have understood correctly, many elements are similar between the 2 units, though each has its own distinctives (R26 has a pre-amp stage and has ability to stream LAN signal/Roon directly to its internal I2S circuitry, R8 seems to have superior power supply, internal clocking plus its proprietary ACSS bus). I very much like that Audio-Gd had its service center in Georgia in the US, so that if there is a warranty issue the unit does not have to be sent back to China for repairs.

Since this is the A90D thread, though- given the limitations of the A90D, and assuming that most readers are likely to be users of mid-fi gear eg wrt headphones HIFIMAN Arya, Audeze LCD-X etc- what particular separate Audio-GD R2R DAC would you most recommend to pair with the A90D?


----------



## brianfromspace

Currawong said:


> If you're  to going to go down the R2R route, then, IMO, I'd get a DAC/amp from Audio-gd, or separates from them, depending on your budget.


Thanks! I love your content on YT! What about a non R2R route?


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## Marlowe (Oct 23, 2022)

Currawong said:


> If you're  to going to go down the R2R route, then, IMO, I'd get a DAC/amp from Audio-gd, or separates from them, depending on your budget.


Why Audio-gd and not another well reviewed R-2R? Using their standalone R1 DAC as a benchmark (around $900 USD) these are all around $1K in the US give or take a bit: Denafrips Ares II, Musician Draco and Pegasus, Soekris 2541, and the newly updated Schiit Bifrost 2/64 (I'm no engineer (an understatement) but understand the Schiit multibit tech is similar to these R-2R DACs though it lacks the distinctive resister ladders of the others). Please understand that I'm not disputing you, just wondering why/if there is a compelling reason to go Audio-gd over others in the same rough price ballpark.

I'm sort of in the market next spring or summer for an amp and DAC upgrade in this budget range ($1K USD each). I'm in no hurry-since I'm retired on a moderate fixed income, it takes me a while to save for these purchases and I just bought a Hifiman Arya Stealth this week after saving for a few months, so am starting from scratch again. BTW, even before burn in, the Arya is easily the best headphone I've heard, clearly bettering my ZMF Aeolus (paid for by a Covid stimulus check here in the US) and Focal Elex.


----------



## Currawong

brianfromspace said:


> Thanks! I love your content on YT! What about a non R2R route?


Lately, my preferences have been with Chord, Schiit Bifrost (though I'm yet to try the new one) or Yggdrasil, and FiiO Q7 (as an all-in-one).


Marlowe said:


> Why Audio-gd and not another well reviewed R-2R?


Because I haven't tried any of the other well-reviewed R2R DACs, other than the ones I've mentioned.   I wish I had had the time to though!


----------



## PieroIM

Can anyone tell me if A90D provide protection against electrical issues like overcurrent, overload, overheating, short circuit?
What about some safety measure to avoid frying headphones/IEMs?
I have not found the slightest information either on the official website, or in the manual or elsewhere...it seems to me a rather crucial feature for this type of device. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## reter

PieroIM said:


> Can anyone tell me if A90D provide protection against electrical issues like overcurrent, overload, overheating, short circuit?
> What about some safety measure to avoid frying headphones/IEMs?
> I have not found the slightest information either on the official website, or in the manual or elsewhere...it seems to me a rather crucial feature for this type of device.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


i would suggest you to plug some overvoltage protection, dunno about overheating, discrete is common to heat


----------



## PieroIM

reter said:


> i would suggest you to plug some overvoltage protection, dunno about overheating, discrete is common to heat


Ok, this sure seems a good preventive measure.
Still, I'd like to know if Topping has provided some minimum security system, given that we are talking about their top of the range and that in any case it seems only right that these protections are present in these devices: I find it shocking that there is not a minimum mention of any of these aspects anywhere ... possible that no other user has asked himself these questions?


----------



## Arniesb

PieroIM said:


> Ok, this sure seems a good preventive measure.
> Still, I'd like to know if Topping has provided some minimum security system, given that we are talking about their top of the range and that in any case it seems only right that these protections are present in these devices: I find it shocking that there is not a minimum mention of any of these aspects anywhere ... possible that no other user has asked himself these questions?


Better Ask this question in ASR because of 2 things.
1. Lot of folks are antiTopping here
2. Topping like Rme, Benchmark focuses on performance.


----------



## PieroIM

Arniesb said:


> Better Ask this question in ASR because of 2 things.
> 1. Lot of folks are antiTopping here
> 2. Topping like Rme, Benchmark focuses on performance.


Thanks for the advice, I didn't knew that there was a strong anti-Topping faction here ... may I ask why?
BTW, I'll follow your suggestion to ask in ASR 👍


----------



## KPzypher

PieroIM said:


> Thanks for the advice, I didn't knew that there was a strong anti-Topping faction here ... may I ask why?
> BTW, I'll follow your suggestion to ask in ASR 👍


Because they measure well and are widely accessible at a fraction of the cost of other popular high-end gear audiophiles like to tout.

Or maybe simply because Amir likes them


----------



## PieroIM

KPzypher said:


> Because they measure well and are widely accessible at a fraction of the cost of other popular high-end gear audiophiles like to tout.
> 
> Or maybe simply because Amir likes them


LOL 😂


----------



## borkenarrou

Does the A90D sounds better after warming up a certain amount of time compared to the A90, my A90D is still on the way so cant test it myself.


----------



## DMITRIY R

borkenarrou said:


> Does the A90D sounds better after warming up a certain amount of time compared to the A90, my A90D is still on the way so cant test it myself.


Sure. My copy burned for about a month before it became stable to play.


----------



## DeckHiFi

PieroIM said:


> Thanks for the advice, I didn't knew that there was a strong anti-Topping faction here ... may I ask why?
> BTW, I'll follow your suggestion to ask in ASR 👍


Isn’t it more the sterile , boring sound they are known for? Just going based on reviews. Not my own findings. I doubt people here care about what Amir likes. They want something to sound good.


----------



## ericx85

Many out there that have heard both, including myself, feel like the A90D does sound different in a better way compared to the original A90. I didn't expect it to sound different knowing Topping but it does. I'm sure saying that might trigger someone but that's just how it is for me. It's VERY worth an audition in my opinion just for the fact that it has a ton of power and stepped volume at an insanely good price.


----------



## TheDeafMonk

ericx85 said:


> Many out there that have heard both, including myself, feel like the A90D does sound different in a better way compared to the original A90. I didn't expect it to sound different knowing Topping but it does. I'm sure saying that might trigger someone but that's just how it is for me. It's VERY worth an audition in my opinion just for the fact that it has a ton of power and stepped volume at an insanely good price.


Agree 100% I paired mine with a AKM J2 DAC and exceedingly happy with the results. Endgame achieved!


----------



## borkenarrou

Just got my A90D yesterday, liked the pairing with the Cayin RU6, just have to crank the volume bit higher than I have to with the D90LE, very musical and absolutely 0 sibilance and fatigue free listening, I wonder what it will be with a higher end R2R like Aries 2 or Bifrost 2.


----------



## bgtip

I have the nagging suspicion that I suffer from a confirmation bias.
First time listened with my HD650, and what struck me immediately is the soundstage. It's out of my head, which I don't think that I've ever experienced with my other amps.
Can somebody share his experience?


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Oct 25, 2022)

bgtip said:


> I have the nagging suspicion that I suffer from a confirmation bias.
> First time listened with my HD650, and what struck me immediately is the soundstage. It's out of my head, which I don't think that I've ever experienced with my other amps.
> Can somebody share his experience?


What is in tbe rest of your chain pls? DAC is SMSL-SU 9?


----------



## Currawong

Arniesb said:


> Better Ask this question in ASR because of 2 things.
> 1. Lot of folks are antiTopping here
> 2. Topping like Rme, Benchmark focuses on performance.


1. Every manufacturer has people who like and dislike them.
2. They focus on SINAD and THD, which relate only a tiny amount to how the amp performs, but which is being touted as all that matters.

Unlike ASR, if you criticise the way the owner of Head-Fi goes about things, you wont get banned immediately. In fact, as long as you're not trolling or being offensive, reasoned criticism is quite welcome. Nobody here is trying to push a misleading narrative for money.


----------



## Marlowe

I read ASR for roughly one part useful information and two parts laughs. It's sort of a personality cult (like one major political party I could name here in the US, but rather less dangerous). However, I rather like Topping; the D90 MQA (the OG AKM 4499 version) is the DAC in my main music setup. And I'm seriously considering the A90D for some upgrades I'm planning next year, though I'm leaning towards saving another couple of months and getting the Burson Soloist 3X (which Amir, no surprise, hated, even though he admitted that the distortion he complained about could not be heard at anything near listenable volume). FWIW, I feel far more constrained in posting unpopular opinions on ASR (I pretty much just don't; it's not worth the tsuris) than I do here (though SBAF is even worse; dissenters there are met with virtual tar and feathering).


----------



## Arniesb

Currawong said:


> 1. Every manufacturer has people who like and dislike them.
> 2. They focus on SINAD and THD, which relate only a tiny amount to how the amp performs, but which is being touted as all that matters.
> 
> Unlike ASR, if you criticise the way the owner of Head-Fi goes about things, you wont get banned immediately. In fact, as long as you're not trolling or being offensive, reasoned criticism is quite welcome. Nobody here is trying to push a misleading narrative for money.


Its all subjective stuff. Many r2r dacs sound slow, veiled and with poor dynamics yet i dont go to some forums to say: Oh this one sucks! This headphones power hungry or very expensive thus you need equally expensive amp to sound good!
I find it very laughable that price is the biggest reason why amp can be good or not.
Many reviewers said: This ofcourse dont sound as good as the price suggest... I mean why people even say that? Enginerring prowess doesnt matter? Better slap many exensive parts that might or not matter at all and also lets forget why everything cost less from China.

Topping a90 discreete is much less pricy than Chord Anni for example, but looks way more costly...

Ofc Measurements doesnt matter! Why the hell then Holo Audio, Matrix Audio, Mola Mola Tambaqui have great measurements and sound good?
Schiit audio, Audio GD tune everything by ears until they achieve enough distortion.
Also each and every Flagship speakers, headphones have less distortion than lesser speakers and headphones! If that doesnt matter, why bother?


----------



## bgtip

jlemaster1957 said:


> What is in tbe rest of your chain pls? DAC is SMSL-SU 9?


Yes, fully balanced chain:
foobar2000 - SMSL SU-9 - Topping A90D - HD650
Mind you, the soundstage is nowhere near to Arya Stealth's depth, and even width, but HD650 seem definitely more spacious with A90D.
There is no such difference with the Arya though, the soundstage with A90D seems the same to me in comparison to my other amps.


----------



## duffer5 (Oct 25, 2022)

I have the age old question regarding the preamp settings when connecting the A90 Discrete headphone amp. Which option do I select on the Hifi Rose 150b's Preout options (see pic)

I plan on using the A90 Discrete headphone amps with my HifiRose 150b and setting the 150b to fixed volume while using the variable volume of the headphone amp(s).

Topping A90 Discrete:

Input sensitivity (XLR balanced in / out)

9.3Vrms @G=L

3.0Vrms @G=H

I will be using XLR in and Out so fully balanced.

Preamp settings available via Hifi Rose 150b (see attached image)


----------



## inscythe

bgtip said:


> I have the nagging suspicion that I suffer from a confirmation bias.
> First time listened with my HD650, and what struck me immediately is the soundstage. It's out of my head, which I don't think that I've ever experienced with my other amps.
> Can somebody share his experience?


I can confirm this as well. For the longest time, I've been avoiding using my HD650 with my old OG A90 as it makes the HD650 sounds thin. After upgrading to A90D, it does open up the HD650 noticeably. Layering and instrument separation are improved as a result, but the detail retrieval is roughly the same.


----------



## Currawong

Arniesb said:


> Its all subjective stuff. Many r2r dacs sound slow, veiled and with poor dynamics yet i dont go to some forums to say: Oh this one sucks! This headphones power hungry or very expensive thus you need equally expensive amp to sound good!


Indeed, just saying "this sucks!" is immature. Understanding that R2R DACs very often are operated in NOS mode, and can indeed sound as you describe, and thus not to your preference is better.  But, what people are specifically saying is that people got better results from some headphones with better amplifiers.  But by "better" they don't mean "lower THD", but the ability to resolve more of the finer details in the music, even during complex music passages.


Arniesb said:


> I find it very laughable that price is the biggest reason why amp can be good or not.


The manufacturers with which I'm familiar use a straight mark-up over the cost of parts for the final price. If the aim is linear behaviour with a complex music signal, rather than test-tone performance, the requirements are different. 


Arniesb said:


> Ofc Measurements doesnt matter! Why the hell then Holo Audio, Matrix Audio, Mola Mola Tambaqui have great measurements and sound good?
> Schiit audio, Audio GD tune everything by ears until they achieve enough distortion.
> Also each and every Flagship speakers, headphones have less distortion than lesser speakers and headphones! If that doesnt matter, why bother?


You're looking at one, very limited set of measurements, promoted by one person who regularly performs them poorly, and making a massive over-generalisation.


----------



## KPzypher

Currawong said:


> You're looking at one, very limited set of measurements, promoted by one person who regularly performs them poorly, and making a massive over-generalisation.


Not trying to be disrespectful and I get your point, but as a reviewer yourself, you really shouldn't make such comments about other reviewers when your own reviews are largely based on your subjective opinions.

Is generalization (your word) based on limited measurements (repeatable) any worse than personal opinions??  If so, please tell us how your reviews are better.  Man I watch your reviews time to time for product info, but every time you talk down on other reviewers, it's such a letdown.  How is that person coming to his own conclusions based on the measurements he performs (poorly or not) any different than you coming to your own conclusions based on your experience with the product??? Your comment wouldn't have bothered me if you weren't running a monetized channel.  But you do.  Just food for thought.


----------



## DeckHiFi

I’m a Currawong fan and I don’t see how he did anything different than what Amir says during his reviews. Amir loves to point out how people have subjective thoughts but he is coming with the truth (doesn’t say it exactly like that) and to him it sounds the same. So again to me Currawong didn’t attack Amir. Just rightfully pointed out how Amir does things. It’s also just a good general way to share the differences in the community. Amir is another way of saying everything doesn’t have a sound and everyone has weird subjective thoughts that don’t matter. Then you have all these other people on the other side. Amir speaks for a good amount of people but he is mostly the face for that side is that makes sense. The other side has a bunch of different faces.


----------



## Currawong

KPzypher said:


> Not trying to be disrespectful and I get your point, but as a reviewer yourself, you really shouldn't make such comments about other reviewers when your own reviews are largely based on your subjective opinions.
> 
> Is generalization (your word) based on limited measurements (repeatable) any worse than personal opinions??  If so, please tell us how your reviews are better.  Man I watch your reviews time to time for product info, but every time you talk down on other reviewers, it's such a letdown.  How is that person coming to his own conclusions based on the measurements he performs (poorly or not) any different than you coming to your own conclusions based on your experience with the product??? Your comment wouldn't have bothered me if you weren't running a monetized channel.  But you do.  Just food for thought.


If a person is being blatantly misleading, should I say nothing?

My reviews are my experiences and opinions about a product. If you've actually watched my reviews, at the end I encourage owners to post their own experiences with a product.   Reviews where THD and SINAD are considered important, especially so if they are ranked, encourage manufacturers to game the system, even going as far as posting numbers with extra zeros added after the decimal point (yes, I've seen this) at output levels that they'll never use a product at, just to impress people who don't know any better.  Remember the old say "Measurements keep the manufacturers honest"? It's now closer to the opposite.  Why do you think the A90D has such a high power output?  Better SINAD numbers!  I want to see the output of a square wave put through these amps and see how well it can handle an actual fluctuating signal.


----------



## KPzypher

Currawong said:


> If a person is being blatantly misleading, should I say nothing?
> 
> My reviews are my experiences and opinions about a product. If you've actually watched my reviews, at the end I encourage owners to post their own experiences with a product.   Reviews where THD and SINAD are considered important, especially so if they are ranked, encourage manufacturers to game the system, even going as far as posting numbers with extra zeros added after the decimal point (yes, I've seen this) at output levels that they'll never use a product at, just to impress people who don't know any better.  Remember the old say "Measurements keep the manufacturers honest"? It's now closer to the opposite.  Why do you think the A90D has such a high power output?  Better SINAD numbers!  I want to see the output of a square wave put through these amps and see how well it can handle an actual fluctuating signal.


Are you saying you're so righteous you had to speak up?    Where were you when snake oil audio manufacturers were making outlandish claims?  J/K J/K.

Reviews encourage manufacturers to game the system, period!  Why do you think manufacturers send products to "select" reviewers (like yourself and Amir) ahead of product launch?  Tell me that's not misleading.

I agree companies like Topping and SMSL (I have no problem calling them out) are taking advantage of the situation by over emphasizing the importance of certain measurement results (that are well beyond human threshold) when promoting their products, which certainly is contributed by ASR's measurement focused approach.  And you're right those numbers are now becoming just numbers to impress people without tangible benefits.  But even if those numbers don't benefit us, how does higher SINAD hurt the consumers?  And even if it did, isn't that the company's fault for misleading consumers rather than the reviewer's fault for believing those measurements are critical to gauging audio fidelity?  How do you evaluate audio equipment? Aren't you doing it based on features or sound you feel are important? So to your logic, if another reviewer disagrees with your conclusion and your methods, can that person say you're misleading others? What you are implying when you say someone else's measurements are done poorly and that person's reviews are over-generalized is the point I'm trying to make.  That's all.

Again, this wouldn't be a problem if you weren't a reviewer with some clout who gets paid for the reviews you do.  I just wish reviewers would focus on their reviews instead of doing the same things they're accusing of others of doing.  And this goes for Amir too.


----------



## TheDeafMonk

KPzypher said:


> Are you saying you're so righteous you had to speak up?    Where were you when snake oil audio manufacturers were making outlandish claims?  J/K J/K.
> 
> Reviews encourage manufacturers to game the system, period!  Why do you think manufacturers send products to "select" reviewers (like yourself and Amir) ahead of product launch?  Tell me that's not misleading.
> 
> ...


Well said KP! Options should be based on listening test no numbers IMHO and leave it at that your take on what you heard and like.


----------



## inscythe

KPzypher said:


> Are you saying you're so righteous you had to speak up?    Where were you when snake oil audio manufacturers were making outlandish claims?  J/K J/K.
> 
> Reviews encourage manufacturers to game the system, period!  Why do you think manufacturers send products to "select" reviewers (like yourself and Amir) ahead of product launch?  Tell me that's not misleading.
> 
> ...


Pretty good points you raised there! I follow both ASR and Currawong (btw @Currawong , I watched your roundtable with PFS, GoldenSound, and WaveTheory... pretty insightful!), and I do believe that the true value of the either styles of review is somewhere in the middle.

I do agree with Currawong about Amir is "doing the measurements poorly" to a certain extent, in a way that Amir's just doing the measurement without making any correlation to actual sound quality benefits to the listener other than "better numbers/graph = better sound". I doubt anyone would notice the difference between 0.000006% THD and 0.0000055% THD, or 1-2dB difference in SINAD (even this, Amir is using best case SINAD, which doesn't make sense to me in terms of consistency across multiple devices). The fact that gears with identical measurements can subjectively sound different means that the data points collected by the measurements might not be suitable. In an analogy, this is like trying to measure weight in litres; while the unit is mismatched, unless you make a correlation between the mass and volume (a.k.a. density of the material), you can't directly infer the weight value.

Meanwhile, Currawong is coming from a different direction where measurements means little to sound quality. Listening is an imperfect science after all, so listening impression should be descriptive and personal. I also often read the comments under the video to find the different opinions and impressions from other people to more points of views. However, most of these impressions are eventually very personal ones, so trying to use it for my personal buying decision is a bit hard. That said, living in Singapore gives me pretty convenient access to try a lot of the gears myself, so it's fine for me, but I can see the value of a more objective-based review (a.k.a. measurements) for those who have little access to the gears. Not everyone can afford blind buying after all.

TL;DR: Amir makes poor correlation between measurements and sound quality, instead leaving it to the readers to decipher them. Currawong could use some measurements as a tool to help reinforce his impressions so that viewers can do indirect comparisons.


----------



## Marlowe (Oct 28, 2022)

Leaving review ideology aside (though I admit to being a non-militant subjectivist), I know Currawong's reviews are far more fun to read or listen to. (I also admit to possible bias in Currawong's favor, since he has thoughtfully and respectfully responded to a few of my comments over the years, both here and on his YT channel.) Reading an Amir review is like a non-accountant reading a spreadsheet; if I have any interest in the review, I generally just skip down to the (always short) conclusions. Plus it's ridiculous for him to trash gear for high distortion even while admitting that there is no audible distortion until volume is well beyond the hearing loss level on a 300 ohm headphone. (I'm thinking of his Burson Soloist review; since that amp is on my short list, along with the A90D, for upgrades next year and was interested.)


----------



## duffer5

Marlowe said:


> Leaving review ideology aside (though I admit to being a non-militant subjectivist), I know Currawong's reviews are far more fun to read or listen to. Reading an Amir review is like a non-accountant reading spreadsheet. Plus it's ridiculous for him to trash gear for high distortion even while admitting that there is no audible distortion until volume is well beyond the hearing loss level on a 300 ohm headphone. (I'm thinking of his Burson Soloist review; since that amp is on my short list, along with the A90D, for upgrades next year and was interested.)


Just an FYI headphones.com has the Burson lineup at 20% off.  I was on that same fence and went with the A90D coming from the Singxer Sa-1.  Very pleased.  Have not heard any of the Burson gear but I read good reviews but many say you can get all of the Burson experience at 1/2 the cost with the A90D.


----------



## Marlowe (Oct 28, 2022)

duffer5 said:


> Just an FYI headphones.com has the Burson lineup at 20% off.  I was on that same fence and went with the A90D coming from the Singxer Sa-1.  Very pleased.  Have not heard any of the Burson gear but I read good reviews but many say you can get all of the Burson experience at 1/2 the cost with the A90D.


Thanks, but it's a moot point for a while. I'm retired on a fixed income (and don't use credit) so I plan possible purchases well in advance and need to save up for them. Since I just acquired a new Hifiman Arya last week (after saving for a few months) my next upgrades won't be until sometime in late winter to late spring (depending on the price of my final selections and how successful my saving is). But the months of research into possible upgrades is a lot of fun in itself (and its free!). As the wise Mr. Spock once noted (in Amok Time, one of the greatest TOS episodes that I saw--in glorious B&W on, I think, a 25 incher--when it kicked off Season 2 in 1967): "[Y]ou may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." And I don't think buyer's remorse was part of the language yet in 1967, though it obviously existed.

BTW, The Arya, even without the recommended burn in yet, is truly worth every penny (and with the recent  price drop and an unexpected 10% discount code from the retailer, I paid only $1169).

Edit: FWIW, ATM (and it's always subject to change) I'm probably looking at a new amp and DAC for use in my favored late night listening spot without either physically moving moving gear or using the iFi Go bar dongle (which in turbo mode easily drives the Arya, at least as far as volume is concerned). Current finalists for the amp are the A90D and the Burson Soloist. For the DAC, the Schiit Bifrost 2/64, Musician Draco or Pegasus, Gustard X18, Soekris 2541. Or quite possible a different direction together: the Fiio K9 Pro ESS all-in-one, which is significantly cheaper than any of these combinations and has (mostly) been very highly reviewed, especially its dual ESS 9038 Pro DACs. The THX-based amp is significantly less powerful than the A90D or the Soloist, but I am not planning to drive the $6K Susvara (though I'd like to!). It should be fine for all my headphones and IEMs and at least a couple of reviews have specifically praised its match with the Arya.


----------



## Hal X

duffer5 said:


> Just an FYI headphones.com has the Burson lineup at 20% off.  I was on that same fence and went with the A90D coming from the Singxer Sa-1.  Very pleased.  Have not heard any of the Burson gear but I read good reviews but many say you can get all of the Burson experience at 1/2 the cost with the A90D.


I am currently in possesion of a Singxer SA-1 myself and was wondering how the A90D performs compared to it, could you share any thoughts/impressions on the matter?


----------



## duffer5 (Oct 28, 2022)

Hal X said:


> I am currently in possesion of a Singxer SA-1 myself and was wondering how the A90D performs compared to it, could you share any thoughts/impressions on the matter?


Sure.  I prefer the A90D. It is not night and day better but to my ear the A90d is the evolution of what the Singxer could be.  Fully discreet so no op amps the same as Singxer but with more power which results in clear crisp and pure sound with no additional color. Speaking of clear my Focal Clear’s OG never sounded better as they do with the A90d. Clarity is strong, bass is pure as intended and finally sound stage sounds more expansive.  Sa-1 is great but to my novice ear the A90d just sounds next level. For the price it can stand shoulder to shoulder with amps that cost 5x or even 10x as much. Plus the volume knob is addictive. If the Singxer had been introduced at the same time as the A90D but as we know the Singxer has been around almost a year I would have gone A90d but I am glad I have / had the Singxer.  Chi-fi is moving so fast and improving typically from one model year to the next that what was the best last year becomes 2nd fiddle more quickly. Not sure where we go from here as the A90D to me is about as good as it gets and that includes top tier Amps as well.


----------



## Currawong

KPzypher said:


> Are you saying you're so righteous you had to speak up?    Where were you when snake oil audio manufacturers were making outlandish claims?  J/K J/K.


It's not a joke.   I've spoken up about _significant_ issues that affect the industry as a whole: balanced amplification being unnecessary _especially _in portable gear, the misleading use of impulse responses to market NOS DACs as being superior, and MQA being a massive con, and I just contacted a manufacturer about the measured power output specs of one of their products being completely false.


KPzypher said:


> Reviews encourage manufacturers to game the system, period!  Why do you think manufacturers send products to "select" reviewers (like yourself and Amir) ahead of product launch?  Tell me that's not misleading.


Why is it misleading to send a reviewer a product?  The feedback I get from manufacturers is that I'm chosen because I'll give the product a fair, reasoned review. I don't ask why they send other reviewers a product, that's up to them. Obviously someone like Z because they have a huge subscriber base. In the case of the A90D it was because APOS wanted my opinion as to whether it's a good amp or not.


KPzypher said:


> I agree companies like Topping and SMSL (I have no problem calling them out) are taking advantage of the situation by over emphasizing the importance of certain measurement results (that are well beyond human threshold) when promoting their products, which certainly is contributed by ASR's measurement focused approach.  And you're right those numbers are now becoming just numbers to impress people without tangible benefits.  But even if those numbers don't benefit us, how does higher SINAD hurt the consumers?  And even if it did, isn't that the company's fault for misleading consumers rather than the reviewer's fault for believing those measurements are critical to gauging audio fidelity?  How do you evaluate audio equipment? Aren't you doing it based on features or sound you feel are important? So to your logic, if another reviewer disagrees with your conclusion and your methods, can that person say you're misleading others? What you are implying when you say someone else's measurements are done poorly and that person's reviews are over-generalized is the point I'm trying to make.  That's all.
> 
> Again, this wouldn't be a problem if you weren't a reviewer with some clout who gets paid for the reviews you do.  I just wish reviewers would focus on their reviews instead of doing the same things they're accusing of others of doing.  And this goes for Amir too.


Fair enough. One point though: If I disagree with another reviewer, that doesn't mean either of us think the other is misleading people. The issue I have is the idea that you can judge the overall performance of a product through a very limited set of measurements. I used the analogy recently of putting a car on a dyno and using that to judge how well it will drive. 

I think the main issue is trying to be "objective" in a subjective hobby. I've said it before, but choosing to focus on objective performance is, basically, a subjective preference. People like products that are attractive. To different people that may mean physically attractive, to others, that it has some kind of attractive performance numbers associated with it.

I definitely should get some measuring gear. I want to consult a few people first about what I intend to do so that it can be actually useful though.


----------



## KPzypher

Currawong said:


> It's not a joke.   I've spoken up about _significant_ issues that affect the industry as a whole: balanced amplification being unnecessary _especially _in portable gear, the misleading use of impulse responses to market NOS DACs as being superior, and MQA being a massive con, and I just contacted a manufacturer about the measured power output specs of one of their products being completely false.
> 
> Why is it misleading to send a reviewer a product?  The feedback I get from manufacturers is that I'm chosen because I'll give the product a fair, reasoned review. I don't ask why they send other reviewers a product, that's up to them. Obviously someone like Z because they have a huge subscriber base. In the case of the A90D it was because APOS wanted my opinion as to whether it's a good amp or not.
> 
> ...


First of all, appreciate your views and an opportunity for a candid conversation.  I absolutely agree the challenge lies in remaining objective within reason in a subjective hobby. But there's been plenty of discussions on that matter so I won't belabor it.  

Anyways, thanks for keeping your cool and really look forward to your future reviews that can cater to both crowds by striking a balance between 'objectivism' by way of meaningful measurements and your subjective expertise.  

As for the A90d, what I like the most compared to the original design is the amount of volume control I get, which have been my biggest gripe.  Volume control became more problematic IME when low-imp./high-sen. HPs became the norm in recent years.   I also appreciate the adjustable volume curve.  On the other hand, I do miss the toggle switches.


----------



## Hal X

duffer5 said:


> Sure.  I prefer the A90D. It is not night and day better but to my ear the A90d is the evolution of what the Singxer could be.  Fully discreet so no op amps the same as Singxer but with more power which results in clear crisp and pure sound with no additional color. Speaking of clear my Focal Clear’s OG never sounded better as they do with the A90d. Clarity is strong, bass is pure as intended and finally sound stage sounds more expansive.  Sa-1 is great but to my novice ear the A90d just sounds next level. For the price it can stand shoulder to shoulder with amps that cost 5x or even 10x as much. Plus the volume knob is addictive. If the Singxer had been introduced at the same time as the A90D but as we know the Singxer has been around almost a year I would have gone A90d but I am glad I have / had the Singxer.  Chi-fi is moving so fast and improving typically from one model year to the next that what was the best last year becomes 2nd fiddle more quickly. Not sure where we go from here as the A90D to me is about as good as it gets and that includes top tier Amps as well.


I see, I think it might be the type of amp I was looking for then. Thank you very much for the detailed impressions!


----------



## DMITRIY R

The channel "Passion for Sound" published a review of the А90D and its comparison with the SA-1. Perhaps this will help someone with the choice of an amplifier.


----------



## DMITRIY R

DMITRIY R said:


> The channel "Passion for Sound" published a review of the А90D and its comparison with the SA-1. Perhaps this will help someone with the choice of an amplifier.



I mostly agree with the conclusions. I have both amplifiers and it's hard for me to name a clear winner in this battle. The SA1 has a little more bass and is a little more relaxed. The A90D is a slightly faster amp and textures the sound better.


----------



## jlemaster1957

DMITRIY R said:


> The channel "Passion for Sound" published a review of the А90D and its comparison with the SA-1. Perhaps this will help someone with the choice of an amplifier.



Thanks - had been waiting/watching for Lachlan to do this review. I’ve already bit the bullet and added Burson 3XP on the basis of his review of that unit (to use as a Poweramp which is a bit different to the typical use and not something g A90D does at all). There aren’t so many YT reviews on A90D and his are highly regarded (by me anyway, even when I dont 100% agree he is very fair and reasonable and just states his honest user impressions).


----------



## DeckHiFi (Oct 29, 2022)

jlemaster1957 said:


> Thanks - had been waiting/watching for Lachlan to do this review. I’ve already bit the bullet and added Burson 3XP on the basis of his review of that unit (to use as a Poweramp which is a bit different to the typical use and not something g A90D does at all). There aren’t so many YT reviews on A90D and his are highly regarded (by me anyway, even when I dont 100% agree he is very fair and reasonable and just states his honest user impressions).


He also seems to do one of the best if not the best job at comparing different products that you want to hear about. He really takes the time to give the audiophile what he's looking for. I also really love his timestamp bookmarks he adds to his videos. Most appreciated.


----------



## duffer5

DMITRIY R said:


> The channel "Passion for Sound" published a review of the А90D and its comparison with the SA-1. Perhaps this will help someone with the choice of an amplifier.



I do like his reviews but I do see one not so obvious issue.  He performed the DC mod on the Singxer and used that unit for the head to head comparison.  Considering most people won’t mod their Sa-1 unit due to potentially causing damage to their equipment or voiding the warranty or just being unaware of the mod need itself the sound he speaks of regarding the Singxer maybe unrecognizable on a stock Sa-1. Not saying that will be definitively the case but it could cause some people to make a purchase decision without all the info.


----------



## bgtip

DMITRIY R said:


> The channel "Passion for Sound" published a review of the А90D and its comparison with the SA-1. Perhaps this will help someone with the choice of an amplifier.



Thank you for this, I enjoy his reviews, mostly for his accent and attitude. His views are unorthodox to say the least. The takeaway is that you should always audition for yourself, and keep the option to return the product if you don't like it, like I did with my A90D, bought from Amazon. I find that almost everything he said is opposite to what I hear and feel with A90D, specially with the sound stage depth. But that's good, you should always question yourself, and it helps me with my choice. I wonder why he choose Muse's Big Freeze as an example, it's quite an average recording technically imho, and I wouldn't give it as a vocals and synth benchmark. By sheer luck today I listened to a solo piano for an hour, which is a lot for me, I like piano less than much. I just couldn't stop listening and marvel how is it possible to discern such details like the percussion strokes and the humming of the pianist, and generally how it is even possible to hear a solo piano as a fully fledged stereo sound stage. So here you have it, the psychological aspect of listening to music.


----------



## XGeneX88

Hey guys, I'm hoping someone here with experience can lend me some suggestion support. I am looking to upgrade my DAC/Amp from an all-in-one DX7S (Topping) to either a Bifrost (latest edition) with a Jotunheim 2 or a D90 + A90D Topping stack. If anyone here has had experience with both setups, can you please talk about how they differed and what/why you preferred one over the other?

I'm also open to trying a hybrid like Bifrost+A90D but now sure how well they would work/sound together in terms of synergy.

FWIW, I absolutely love my DX7S but it lacks power for things like a HE6SE or LCD-4 which is what has me looking for upgrades. Need something with more power for harder to drive headphones.

Also.. open to using my DX7S as a DAC and just buying an amp.. A90D or Jotunheim 2.. not sure if that would be more practical or if it would be better to buy the proper "partner DAC" to run with the respective counterpart amps. All thoughts are welcome!


----------



## ahmonge

XGeneX88 said:


> Also.. open to using my DX7S as a DAC and just buying an amp


If you are happy with how your current rig sounds (except for power), this is a sensible way to go.


----------



## ericx85

duffer5 said:


> I do like his reviews but I do see one not so obvious issue.  He performed the DC mod on the Singxer and used that unit for the head to head comparison.  Considering most people won’t mod their Sa-1 unit due to potentially causing damage to their equipment or voiding the warranty or just being unaware of the mod need itself the sound he speaks of regarding the Singxer maybe unrecognizable on a stock Sa-1. Not saying that will be definitively the case but it could cause some people to make a purchase decision without all the info.


IIRC, he mentioned in comments that he didnt mod the SA-1 for the comparison.


----------



## DeckHiFi

ericx85 said:


> IIRC, he mentioned in comments that he didnt mod the SA-1 for the comparison.


Good to hear because I didn't want to mod it and I just bought it.  Seems to be a mix of reactions in forums to modding it. I think I'm going to trust Passion and go for the sweet sound of the SA-1 and hope for the best.


----------



## Arora

I have a Focal Clear and I also have Moondrop Variations on the way. As this amp doesn’t have a gain switch, how would I change that setting? I’m guessing I would low gain for the IEM and then mid for the Clear?


----------



## uckexk

Arora said:


> I have a Focal Clear and I also have Moondrop Variations on the way. As this amp doesn’t have a gain switch, how would I change that setting? I’m guessing I would low gain for the IEM and then mid for the Clear?


Actually the two gain levels are mid and high gain; no low gain here, as low gain usually implies a negative gain level. You can change the gain setting using the remote or the volume knob, the latter requiring a firmware update. For Focals high gain is not needed, as the mid gain gets loud enough.


----------



## Arora

uckexk said:


> Actually the two gain levels are mid and high gain; no low gain here, as low gain usually implies a negative gain level. You can change the gain setting using the remote or the volume knob, the latter requiring a firmware update. For Focals high gain is not needed, as the mid gain gets loud enough.


Super helpful, thanks. Not that this should be of any concern to me, would these drive the Susvara, HE1000 v2, and Utopias?


----------



## ahmonge

Arora said:


> Super helpful, thanks. Not that this should be of any concern to me, would these drive the Susvara, HE1000 v2, and Utopias?


My experience with the Hifiman HE6se v2 (83 dB/mW at 50 Ohms) was OK. No problem getting a high volme at high gain with SE connection to the D30 Pro DAC. The HE6se is famous for needing a lot of power, Hifiman recommends at least two watts.


----------



## Arora

ahmonge said:


> My experience with the Hifiman HE6se v2 (83 dB/mW at 50 Ohms) was OK. No problem getting a high volme at high gain with SE connection to the D30 Pro DAC. The HE6se is famous for needing a lot of power, Hifiman recommends at least two watts.


ok doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement for the amp in this case. are the HE1000 v2 easier to drive?

also are most people pairing this with the D90LE/SE? i am probably going to get the D90LE but that's pricier than the amp!


----------



## ahmonge

Arora said:


> ok doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement for the amp in this case. are the HE1000 v2 easier to drive?


For me, this amp is perfectly suitable to drive the HE6se, but I’m not a fan of amp-HP synergy. And yes, the HE1000 v2 (90 dB/mW at 35 Ohms) is easier to drive than the HE6se v2.


----------



## Arora

ahmonge said:


> For me, this amp is perfectly suitable to drive the HE6se, but I’m not a fan of amp-HP synergy. And yes, the HE1000 v2 (90 dB/mW at 35 Ohms) is easier to drive than the HE6se v2.


what are your favourite amps for your hifiman?


----------



## ahmonge

Arora said:


> what are your favourite amps for your hifiman?


i have two: Fiio K5 Pro and Topping A30 Pro. for Ananda, any of them. For HE6se v2 (while I had them), the latter, due to its extra power.


----------



## Leonarfd

Ordered one during the 11.11 sale, its a little backlog atm. I ordered on the 1st and its being produced in 2-3weeks, going to pair it with the new L70. I don't have funds right now or I would have gone with D90. 
Going from the Questyle CMA400i, I want something more silent when using IEM's since the CMA400i has a slight noise when driving sensitive IEMs. And to get my Lokius between for some analog EQ.  Looking forward to it, not used to such neutral setups.


----------



## Arora

Leonarfd said:


> Ordered one during the 11.11 sale, its a little backlog atm. I ordered on the 1st and its being produced in 2-3weeks, going to pair it with the new L70. I don't have funds right now or I would have gone with D90.
> Going from the Questyle CMA400i, I want something more silent when using IEM's since the CMA400i has a slight noise when driving sensitive IEMs. And to get my Lokius between for some analog EQ.  Looking forward to it, not used to such neutral setups.


Where did you order from? I’m hoping Hifigo have them in stock


----------



## Leonarfd

shenzhenaudio.com


Arora said:


> Where did you order from? I’m hoping Hifigo have them in stock


With the voucher I had and the sale price it got really good. Could have had it for 250usd more in Norway, but I rather wait. And shenzhenaudio.com comes without tax to Norway 👍


----------



## Arora

Leonarfd said:


> shenzhenaudio.com
> 
> With the voucher I had and the sale price it got really good. Could have had it for 250usd more in Norway, but I rather wait. And shenzhenaudio.com comes without tax to Norway 👍


sounds like a great deal. what DAC are you using?


----------



## Leonarfd

Depends, going to try the new Topping E70 first. If I'm satisfied I'm going to sell my cma400i👍


----------



## Cajmer81

teknorob23 said:


> Just pulled the trigger on an a90d on next day delivery from amazon as I’m super curious to hear how it runs my Diana TCs. So far I’ve only managed to get them to sing out of my agd speaker amps, but I’m hoping the topping might be solution for my workshop rig. Has anyone else here tried it with the TCs?


Is this good solutions? Diana tc + A90d?


----------



## Slim1970

Cajmer81 said:


> Is this good solutions? Diana tc + A90d?


I'm thinking the sound may be a little analytical and lacking some fullness, body with that amp.


----------



## josht909

DMITRIY R said:


> I mostly agree with the conclusions. I have both amplifiers and it's hard for me to name a clear winner in this battle. The SA1 has a little more bass and is a little more relaxed. The A90D is a slightly faster amp and textures the sound better.


im trying to decide between these two amps. how do the two compare in the mid and sub bass region for slam/impact/dyanamicd? which would you say is better for the bass?


----------



## josht909

Currawong said:


> I compared the A90D with the SA-1 yesterday, level matched, from the Yggdrasil. I did find the SA-1 to be a touch more nuanced driving the Stealth, and the A90D a bit less. I hadn't been expecting that. It was quite subtle though. I reckon if someone finds these amps a bit bright (or lean or harsh, or whatever word one prefers) a Jotunheim 2 would be better. It also seems to deliver a better sense of depth (ie: front to back imaging) which is noticeable with headphones such as the Utopias.
> 
> I wonder if this bright/lean/harsh impression, which I didn't experience myself, is because I'm using a power conditioner. I'm also wondering if most people don't pair them with a Topping DAC as well. I'll have a go tomorrow with the D90 (original) with both hooked up directly into the mains to see if I can't figure it out.
> 
> ...


im trying to decide between these two amps. how do the two compare in the mid and sub bass region for slam/impact/dyanamicd? which would you say is better for the bass? did you do the mod on the sa-1?


----------



## josht909

duffer5 said:


> Sure.  I prefer the A90D. It is not night and day better but to my ear the A90d is the evolution of what the Singxer could be.  Fully discreet so no op amps the same as Singxer but with more power which results in clear crisp and pure sound with no additional color. Speaking of clear my Focal Clear’s OG never sounded better as they do with the A90d. Clarity is strong, bass is pure as intended and finally sound stage sounds more expansive.  Sa-1 is great but to my novice ear the A90d just sounds next level. For the price it can stand shoulder to shoulder with amps that cost 5x or even 10x as much. Plus the volume knob is addictive. If the Singxer had been introduced at the same time as the A90D but as we know the Singxer has been around almost a year I would have gone A90d but I am glad I have / had the Singxer.  Chi-fi is moving so fast and improving typically from one model year to the next that what was the best last year becomes 2nd fiddle more quickly. Not sure where we go from here as the A90D to me is about as good as it gets and that includes top tier Amps as well.


im trying to decide between these two amps. how do the two compare in the mid and sub bass region for slam/impact/dyanamicd? which would you say is better for the bass? did you do the mod to the sa-1?


----------



## jlemaster1957

josht909 said:


> im trying to decide between these two amps. how do the two compare in the mid and sub bass region for slam/impact/dyanamicd? which would you say is better for the bass? did you do the mod to the sa-1?


TLR - not exactly what you asked for : A90D vs Burson 3XP
Listened to both fed by SE
Listening to Mercan Dede’s version of Ludovico Einaudis “Twice” on Aryas using balanced out Focal Clear cables. This track  has an enormous bass drop at 1:14 that serves for me as a test of bass (lower tier amps tend to clip or distort it). 3XP renders this perfectly with no distortion, A90D adds just a bit too much reverb - and there is some distortion. The other added benefit of 3XP is imaging and staging (better depth). YMMV.

Normally I’d not throw this amp into the mix as it’s usually about $500 more expensive than the A90D but there has been a 20% off sale going on Burson products online recently, making the comparison more apt.


----------



## josht909

jlemaster1957 said:


> TLR - not exactly what you asked for : A90D vs Burson 3XP
> Listened to both fed by SE
> Listening to Mercan Dede’s version of Ludovico Einaudis “Twice” on Aryas using balanced out Focal Clear cables. This track  has an enormous bass drop at 1:14 that serves for me as a test of bass (lower tier amps tend to clip or distort it). 3XP renders this perfectly with no distortion, A90D adds just a bit too much reverb - and there is some distortion. The other added benefit of 3XP is imaging and staging (better depth). YMMV.
> 
> Normally I’d not throw this amp into the mix as it’s usually about $500 more expensive than the A90D but there has been a 20% off sale going on Burson products online recently, making the comparison more apt.



thanks! even with 20% discount the 3xp is still far above my upper limit to spend on amp, right now i can buy either a a90d or sa-1 for 500$ which bring it into my budget. 

would you be willing to describe the difference in bass between these two in the bass region? which would be better in the mid and sub bass region for impact/transients/dynamics while still being reference sounding. i use aeon noire headphones and they seem to need a very powerful amp to deliver these characteristics in the bass region


----------



## jlemaster1957

josht909 said:


> thanks! even with 20% discount the 3xp is still far above my upper limit to spend on amp, right now i can buy either a a90d or sa-1 for 500$ which bring it into my budget.
> 
> would you be willing to describe the difference in bass between these two in the bass region? which would be better in the mid and sub bass region for impact/transients/dynamics while still being reference sounding. i use aeon noire headphones and they seem to need a very powerful amp to deliver these characteristics in the bass region


Sorry don’t have/haven’t heard Sa-1.


----------



## Joong (Nov 12, 2022)

A90d is really the best of what I have had.
It simply simplify the headphone stocks.
It allowed me keeping only dynamic phones, this means the expensive planars cannot be justified now with a90d.
It pairs well with topping d90se for everything down to earphones with low impedance.

Now I only listen to beyerdynamic dt1770, 1990 only, which covers enough for my musical collections from small to big band music.
Previously those music required Audeze and hifiman's expensive planars.

Of course there is subtle differences among different phones, but among stressful business life arround me, a90d allows me simple life.


----------



## dlelikov

I have a stack of SMSL SU-10 + A90D, and I can compare it with AIO HiFiMan EF-400. I listen to Kennerton Thexx, Denon 9200, Verum 1 mk2, and many IEMs. The sound on the A90D stack is less natural on live instruments and voices compared to the EF-400, and the scene on the A90D is also a little narrower and less deep. The A90D has a sharper bass, but has less weight. The resolution is slightly better on the A90D. But the SU-10 has a very interesting Sound Color setting. If you select the Tube 1-3 setting, then the sound of the A90D becomes more natural to my ear. In fact, an even harmonic is added by the DAC. When using Sound Color type Rich 1-3, 2 and 3 harmonics are added, and the sound becomes thicker, less detailed. According to the measurements of the EF-400, it can be seen that it has very large 2 and 3 harmonics, which is most likely why it and other Class A amplifiers sound more natural to our ear. I also conducted a blind A/B test of DAC SMSL SU-10 and DAC part of EF-400 simultaneously connected via RCA and XLR to A90D with parallel playback of the same composition from two sources. Instant switching was carried out by the button on the remote control switching the input to the A90D. And I couldn't hear any differences between one DAC and another!


----------



## newaudio46

I don’t suppose anyone has the chord anni to compare this to? Big price difference


----------



## Arora (Nov 19, 2022)

what xlr cables do i need to connect the a90d and d90le?


----------



## jlemaster1957

Arora said:


> what xlr cables do i need to connect the a90d and d90le?


I use Mogami Studio Golds, which work well for me. Recommended. Have not compared them ABX to others, but I find that the touted clarity and low end impact of tbe D90/A90D come thru fine.


----------



## Joong

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33035223771.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.3ae61802GXIGPN
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002956625607.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.3ae61802GXIGPN
I uses these, and the difference is insignificant.


----------



## borkenarrou

Arora said:


> what xlr cables do i need to connect the a90d and d90le?


I am using the Hart Audio patch cable https://hartaudiocables.com/products/tc-1-3-pin-xlr-patch-cable

Other good options are:
Periapt
Worlds Best cables (search Amazon)


----------



## Arora

borkenarrou said:


> I am using the Hart Audio patch cable https://hartaudiocables.com/products/tc-1-3-pin-xlr-patch-cable
> 
> Other good options are:
> Periapt
> Worlds Best cables (search Amazon)


Thanks, of all the options recommended only the worlds best seems easy to buy in the UK from Amazon. Just purchased two of those.


----------



## jlemaster1957

borkenarrou said:


> I am using the Hart Audio patch cable https://hartaudiocables.com/products/tc-1-3-pin-xlr-patch-cable


I asked the Hart folks what they use for cabling and they told me 

“We use oxygen free copper from Mogami for all of our cables. All of the connectors are gold-plated” so I think this is a great option, as none of the Mogami Studios are that short (they are really designed as mic cables and the shortest ones are adapted as interconnects— but for DAC-Amp connections the shorter the better).. The nice thing about Hart is if you need a particular length cable they will make it for you custom. They are GREAT folks- I had a cable with a loose connection recently that I sent back on warranty and they not only repaired the one I returned but gave me another one to boot. Can’t sing their praises highly enough!


----------



## bgillis

jlemaster1957 said:


> I asked the Hart folks what they use for cabling and they told me
> 
> “We use oxygen free copper from Mogami for all of our cables. All of the connectors are gold-plated” so I think this is a great option, as none of the Mogami Studios are that short (they are really designed as mic cables and the shortest ones are adapted as interconnects— but for DAC-Amp connections the shorter the better).. The nice thing about Hart is if you need a particular length cable they will make it for you custom. They are GREAT folks- I had a cable with a loose connection recently that I sent back on warranty and they not only repaired the one I returned but gave me another one to boot. Can’t sing their praises highly enough!


Same experience for me with Hart Audio Cables... These guys are providing excellent products and customer services.


----------



## agussoler

Hi everyone, and apologies in advance if my question is too basic, but I can't figure out what to do.

*The volume is very low, even at 99. Has anyone experienced this? Any guidance you can provide?*

I bought a Topping A90 Discrete a couple of weeks ago. I'm using a Macbook Pro or a Fiio M11Pro as the sources connected via RCA to the Amp. I tried multiple headphones, including an Azure LCD2C and the Hifiman Arya. I checked the volume of the sources, and they are at their max.

I don't know whether I'm doing something wrong or the unit is not working properly. 

I have a Chord Mojo, and it works perfectly compared to the Topping A90D

Thank you in advance.


----------



## jlemaster1957

agussoler said:


> Hi everyone, and apologies in advance if my question is too basic, but I can't figure out what to do.
> 
> *The volume is very low, even at 99. Has anyone experienced this? Any guidance you can provide?*
> 
> ...


So we can help you, pls clarify
1) how are you connecting the cable from the sources into the A90D?
2) what are the settings of the A90D (gain, HP mode)?
3) are you using LineOut from your source devices - for MacBook, are you using the ‘headphone out’ (seems so, since you don’t mention a DAC between MacBook and A90D, the more typical setup would be MacBook -> USB out -> DAC -> RCA out-> A 90D. 
4) how are you connecting the HPs to A90D?

I’m guessing either your gain is too low on A90D for your sources output power, or your connections are faulty somehow.


----------



## agussoler

1) mini plug to RCA cable
2) HP
3) Headphone out, I tried lineout from my Fiio M11pro and got the same results.
4) SE


----------



## jlemaster1957

agussoler said:


> 1) mini plug to RCA cable
> 2) HP
> 3) Headphone out, I tried lineout from my Fiio M11pro and got the same results.
> 4) SE


For ‘gain’ there are 3 levels -low, med, high. What is your gain on A90D (must be set in the settings menu, there is no gain switch). Some sources need higher or lower gain


----------



## agussoler

I'm only able to switch between L and H. It's in H, volume is still low 

Thank you for your patience!


----------



## jlemaster1957

agussoler said:


> I'm only able to switch between L and H. It's in H, volume is still low
> 
> Thank you for your patience!


Have you been able to get normal volume out using ANY source? Is it the same out of all HP outs (4.4 mm balanced, 4-pin balanced, SE out?) there have been some issues with SE out on the HPs, but mostly with the unit turning itself off not too low volume- there is a firmware update that needs to be uploaded from your computer to the flash drive in A90D while the unit is turned off.

HOWEVER
I would advise you to avoid plugging in expensive HPs at this point till you sort this out- see post https://www.head-fi.org/threads/topping-a90-discrete-aka-a90d.963858/page-16#post-17111288 on this thread- directions for firmware 2.4 update follow.


----------



## agussoler

Thank you! I have not been able to get normal volume using any source. I have not tried BAL out. I'll check the firmware.


----------



## inscythe

agussoler said:


> Hi everyone, and apologies in advance if my question is too basic, but I can't figure out what to do.
> 
> *The volume is very low, even at 99. Has anyone experienced this? Any guidance you can provide?*
> 
> ...


Check whether you are on volume curve 1. Mine came out of the box with volume curve 3.


----------



## jlemaster1957

inscythe said:


> Check whether you are on volume curve 1. Mine came out of the box with volume curve 3.


From an ASR post on the subject

“By pressing "B" on the remote, you can change this curves, and I was finally able to listen… the user manual provided on the internet don't have this information and states that the "B" button on the remote is an "invalid button"...so if you happen to have the same problem, just use the "B" on the remote.”


----------



## agussoler

That was it. I pressed "B" and set it to 1. The volume is perfect now. Thank you!!!


----------



## jlemaster1957

agussoler said:


> That was it. I pressed "B" and set it to 1. The volume is perfect now. Thank you!!!


Yay! It’s great when we can figure things out together! 

Now, young Padawan- head over to the new members page if you haven’t yet and read all the ‘to do’s’ and ‘not to dos’ of Head-fi - and welcome to the Forum! It’s a great community and you have had a good intro here to it!

https://www.head-fi.org/articles/terms-of-service.6725/


----------



## ray830305

They seems to have similar performance best from Amir's review on ASR. I do like the new features on the discrete model!


----------



## kopczas

jlemaster1957 said:


> From an ASR post on the subject


Another way is to read manual carefully.


----------



## kopczas

Could I ask for input on sound quality on A90D vs A90 from people who own both devices?


----------



## Revelation Sound

Very helpful information on this headphone amp. I am curious if anyone has compared it to the SPL Phonitor SE? Both are more on the neutral sound.


----------



## jdan1457

Is the A90D a worthwhile upgrade from the A30pro? I have Argon mk3 and Edition XS currently. But I'm thinking about adding the He6se v2's since Adorama keeps dropping the price and I've heard they need a lot of power.

I'm also considering ZMF Aeolus, does A90D make pair well with them?


----------



## inscythe

kopczas said:


> Could I ask for input on sound quality on A90D vs A90 from people who own both devices?


I sold my A90 after getting the A90D. Based on memory, I find them very similar overall. If I listen critically, A90D has slightly better slam in the subbass and somewhat smoother midrange. The difference varies between headphones. I find my HD650 sounds so much better on A90D, as well as a few of my planars (Hifiman Edition XS, Verum 1 Mk2, and Hifiman Deva Pro). My Beyerdynamic headphones does have slight improvement over A90, but not by much. I'm getting the A90D mainly because of the more accurate volume control and better low-impedance driving (I plan to get a HE6SE or hopefully eventually LCD-X).


----------



## borkenarrou

WaveTheory compared the A90D to various sub $600 amps



To sum it up he is not too impressed, his main complaints are lack of micro details particularly trailing ones and details in busy passages which he atttibute to A90D's feedback topology (like other THX based amps), I myself dont have higher end amps to compare to know if I am missing anything, so folks who do have high end amps do you agree with his observations.


----------



## dlelikov

I have both A90D and Hifiman EF-400. EF400 sound more natural with wider and deeper soundstage.


----------



## inscythe (Dec 7, 2022)

borkenarrou said:


> WaveTheory compared the A90D to various sub $600 amps
> 
> 
> 
> To sum it up he is not too impressed, his main complaints are lack of micro details particularly trailing ones and details in busy passages which he atttibute to A90D's feedback topology (like other THX based amps), I myself dont have higher end amps to compare to know if I am missing anything, so folks who do have high end amps do you agree with his observations.




I watched his review of A90D. With all due respect, I disagree with his interpretation of having a clean measurement equates to lack of 'micro details'. It's pretty clear from the way he compares his headphones listening to live music; in live music there are a lot of sources of distortion, from the room, the sound system, and the audience. So if you want to have a live music feel, picking a virtually distortion-less source like Topping would not be ideal. Meanwhile, with his other amps, clearly there are some distortions shown in the measurements, but that includes some beneficial distortions like the even-order harmonics which might not look good on paper but sound better for enjoyment. My guess is he simply prefers having some distortions, which he probably interpret as 'micro details' here.

If you try a professional-grade reference equipment like the RME ADI-2, you'll find a very similar approach like Topping in terms of the accuracy and cleanness of the sound reproduction. So, WaveTheory is correct to say that measurement does not equal to enjoyment of the music, but the enjoyment itself is extremely subjective. The question is for yourself to know what is the priority in your equipment setup: accuracy or musicality? My suggestion is for you to try them yourself if possible (or use Amazon return policy if that's available to you).

Personally I tried Burson Conductor 3X GT, which on paper has at least an order or magnitude more distortion than A90D, and I find it sounding amazing, crushes the Topping A90D easily in terms of musicality. However, I ended up getting Topping instead due to the flexibility with having a dead neutral/linear sound: I can add DSP, EQ, or filters to change the sound to whatever I want as far as the hardware is capable of reproducing. I think nothing beats A90D in that front at this price. And that's my own subjective enjoyment I find in owning this setup.


----------



## Arniesb

inscythe said:


> I watched his review of A90D. With all due respect, I disagree with his interpretation of having a clean measurement equates to lack of 'micro details'. It's pretty clear from the way he compares his headphones listening to live music; in live music there are a lot of sources of distortion, from the room, the sound system, and the audience. So if you want to have a live music feel, picking a virtually distortion-less source like Topping would not be ideal. Meanwhile, with his other amps, clearly there are some distortions shown in the measurements, but that includes some beneficial distortions like the even-order harmonics which might not look good on paper but sound better for enjoyment. My guess is he simply prefers having some distortions, which he probably interpret as 'micro details' here.
> 
> If you try a professional-grade reference equipment like the RME ADI-2, you'll find a very similar approach like Topping in terms of the accuracy and cleanness of the sound reproduction. So, WaveTheory is correct to say that measurement does not equal to enjoyment of the music, but the enjoyment itself is extremely subjective. The question is for yourself to know what is the priority in your equipment setup: accuracy or musicality? My suggestion is for you to try them yourself if possible (or use Amazon return policy if that's available to you).
> 
> Personally I tried Burson Conductor 3X GT, which on paper has at least an order or magnitude more distortion than A90D, and I find it sounding amazing, crushes the Topping A90D easily in terms of musicality. However, I ended up getting Topping instead due to the flexibility with having a dead neutral/linear sound: I can add DSP, EQ, or filters to change the sound to whatever I want as far as the hardware is capable of reproducing. I think nothing beats A90D in that front at this price. And that's my own subjective enjoyment I find in owning this setup.


I wish people just report their impressions instead talking something they clearly dont know.
Its funny, when they compare topping with 3k plus stuff and just tunnel vision into circuitry instead of looking at power supplies and deciding that ''Feedback is bad'' ''opamps is bad" while power supplies are completely different.


----------



## inscythe

Arniesb said:


> I wish people just report their impressions instead talking something they clearly dont know.
> Its funny, when they compare topping with 3k plus stuff and just tunnel vision into circuitry instead of looking at power supplies and deciding that ''Feedback is bad'' ''opamps is bad" while power supplies are completely different.



I had to watch that video at 2x speed. WaveTheory tried to justify his subjective opinions with some science-y concepts for almost 20 mins. I'd appreciate that more if he simply says "These are my impressions, my preferred sound is such and such, and therefore A90D isn't for me".


----------



## Revelation Sound (Dec 7, 2022)

I am really interested in this headphone amp and the famous Josh said it is an improvement over the A90. In doing more searching, I found a video where the original A90 was compared to the SPL Phonitor.  IT won't let me post the video here, but you can do a search. At13:49 he switches from the A90 to the SPL. The SPL he says gets out of the way, and provides more detail. Granted he is comparing the older A90 but the SPL appears to be a better unit when you remove the price point.. He had similar comments about the A90 not being on the same level.


----------



## Revelation Sound (Dec 7, 2022)

kopczas said:


> Could I ask for input on sound quality on A90D vs A90 from people who own both devices


I know the videos where they compare the two don't count


----------



## kopczas

borkenarrou said:


> WaveTheory compared the A90D to various sub $600 amps


I`ve seen this vid.
I do have both amps at this moment, I just wanted to compare my thoughts with others 


inscythe said:


> With all due respect, I disagree with his interpretation of having a clean measurement equates to lack of 'micro details'.





inscythe said:


> WaveTheory tried to justify his subjective opinions with some science-y concepts


I guess it`s the thing with audiophilia as brain destroying syndrom. I could not go thru with WaveTheory video. 
It was interesting to watch until this guy said he has some degree  in physics, after that it became sad. 
He failed to prove anything except lack of basic knowledge . This video could last 30s : "A90D better then A90. I don`t like it" .
In my opinion he would not like any equipment that represents neutrality cause many times audiophiles search in recorded music things that aren`t there. Paradox is that every recording and mastering studio uses equipment design for this purpose, which ironically audiophiles hate to listen to cause it`s boring lol.
As you said, A90D is closer to RME ADi2 and RME is studio workhorse. 

So it`s designers choice if final product will be neutral, more exiting then neutral, or every other direction. It`s not magic or rocket science. 
It`s also buyers choice, I personally prefer that any part of audio path was as low in interference of any kind until signal reach speaker or HP driver. So any extra excitement, or extra bass  boost from equipment is engineering fail for me. Some may like this. 
But making some crazy theory why A90D measures great but sounds not so much is funny, cause measurement prove that A90D doesn`t sound. Overall distortion is -30db below human hearing, there are on 2nd and 3rd harmonics to interfere, there is plenty of power to drive basically anything on the market.


----------



## DeckHiFi (Dec 7, 2022)

kopczas said:


> I`ve seen this vid.
> I do have both amps at this moment, I just wanted to compare my thoughts with others
> 
> 
> ...


I think you hit the nail on the head. I would also like to add - I think the subjective crowd act like things are there in the music that can only be found with this amp or this amp over here. Which is funny, the goal of an amp if you want a clean, transparent sound is to give you the recording in the most dynamic, least distorted way possible (if you like low distortion sound). Now you can always prefer distortion or an amp that changes the music. You're allowed to, but acting like it's objectively better is silly. To get closest to some kind of standard - we need to have things we all agree on. Which is the frequency response of headphones lately. So the things that are going to affect that the most?
 - Your headphones
- The EQ you're using.
- And do you have the power to get a dynamic sound out of your headphones at the right volume?

Everything else seems incredibly subjective with amps and dacs. I think what is confusing about the whole debate is people don't break it down correctly...

Objective: trying to get as close to reference studio master as possible while looking at things we can measure. It's OK if something sounds better, but did you do blind tests to make sure it actually does?
This philosophy does NOT mean preference towards boring sound. The goal is to have an incredibly dynamic sound if you have the frequency response / EQ getting you there.

Subjective: Preferring one type of sound over another. This does NOT mean it's finding something in the recording that wasn't there on a "boring objective device". That's only true if you didn't do the objective part correctly above. This CAN mean things sound different from one another. Of course filters and distortions can change the sound. Doesn't mean it's finding the magic or the transparency, or timbre that was there originally (and this device FOUND IT!)


----------



## borkenarrou (Dec 7, 2022)

DeckHiFi said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head. I would also like to add - I think the subjective crowd act like things are there in the music that can only be found with this amp or this amp over here. Which is funny, the goal of an amp if you want a clean, transparent sound is to give you the recording in the most dynamic, least distorted way possible (if you like low distortion sound). Now you can always prefer distortion or an amp that changes the music. You're allowed to, but acting like it's objectively better is silly. To get closest to some kind of standard - we need to have things we all agree on. Which is the frequency response of headphones lately. So the things that are going to affect that the most?
> - Your headphones
> - The EQ you're using.
> - And do you have the power to get a dynamic sound out of your headphones at the right volume?
> ...


Agreed, I think distortion is neither good nor bad, it is just a preference thing, like tube amplifier, however my motivation for referring the video is possible loss of micro details, are feedback based design amplifiers (like A90D) so aggresive in cleaning the audio signal they end up removing the minutest of the details which were there in the original recording which positively contributed in some way to the music, I myself don't have a way to know if this is infact the case which is why I asked the wise folks here.


----------



## Arniesb

borkenarrou said:


> Agreed, I think distortion is neither good nor bad, it is just a preference thing, like tube amplifier, however my motivation for referring the video is possible loss of micro details, are feedback based design amplifiers (like A90D) so aggresive in cleaning the audio signal they end up removing the minutest of the details which were there in the original recording which positively contributed in some way to the music, I myself don't have a way to know if this is infact the case which is why I asked the wise folks here.


Some people like copper cable over Silver cables. Does that makes Silver cables worse? No, its just preference for more coloration.
Headamp gsx mk2 was aimed at maximum transparency and was hated by a lot of people even though it is fully class a amp! Gsx mini is less capable, but like by more people than gsx mk2 not because its better, but because it is tuned to be warmer.


----------



## DeckHiFi

borkenarrou said:


> Agreed, I think distortion is neither good nor bad, it is just a preference thing, like tube amplifier, however my motivation for referring the video is possible loss of micro details, are feedback based design amplifiers (like A90D) so aggresive in cleaning the audio signal they end up removing the minutest of the details which were there in the original recording which positively contributed in some way to the music, I myself don't have a way to know if this is infact the case which is why I asked the wise folks here.


Well it's the perfect subjective conspiracy - but not sure if anyone can prove it. This amplifier makes you lose some details in the music!! That would be of course terrible if true. I would hope that kind of thing could be measured where you would have 2 devices against each other and show if any details are being missed on any tones/frequencies. But again, it's just amusing because that would completely change my whole argument if true and basically throw the whole objective thing on it's head if certain devices are losing details in an optimal setup, but they measure perfectly. Again, the perfect conspiracy - but I would like someone to prove it.


----------



## ericx85

I can -sorta- see how feedback amps can be aggressive enough to the point that it is its own form of coloration I guess. But I think Wavetheory should give the A90D its credit for the features it has at its price at least. Tons of power, a remote, balanced/unbalanced inputs and outputs, ground kill switch, and best of all the r2r volume. Unless you can listen to a dac on your headphones direct from its outputs (and I dont mean a built in amp), you can't really say if the A90D is killing anything or not.


----------



## kopczas

DeckHiFi said:


> I think the subjective crowd act like things are there in the music that can only be found with this amp or this amp over here.


I`ve heard that statement so many time during equipment reviews, vintage lovers, diyers...


DeckHiFi said:


> - Your headphones
> - The EQ you're using.
> - And do you have the power to get a dynamic sound out of your headphones at the right volume?


EQ complicates building any reference
Another thing is that I`ve seen different measurements results from same HPs done by different people, so measurement method should always be stated. 


DeckHiFi said:


> This philosophy does NOT mean preference towards boring sound. The goal is to have an incredibly dynamic sound if you have the frequency response / EQ getting you there.


How mamy times did you heard from audiophile that studio speakers are impossible to listen to? 


DeckHiFi said:


> Subjective: Preferring one type of sound over another.


This is the point where any discussion could end : I prefer that over this. Period. I should just add some input what I prefer.


----------



## kopczas

DeckHiFi said:


> thing could be measured where you would have 2 devices against each other and show if any details are being missed on any tones/frequencies.


Measurements vs subjective listening has one factor that changes everything: trust in your brain which in this case is tricky. Imagine graphs of two measured devices which show that both sound the same. Then you think: it`s impossible!! here your brain tricks you cause you know what you hear, your eyes see two different devices so even if they are close (or not) they MUST sound different. 
Would you trust your ears or measurements? 
Now let`s add another factor: device 1 is 4000$, device 2 is 400$. At this point your brain is overload state. Now you definitely hear the more expensive device sounds better. 
This trickery goes until you would be brave enough to take ABx test.


----------



## inscythe (Dec 8, 2022)

borkenarrou said:


> Agreed, I think distortion is neither good nor bad, it is just a preference thing, like tube amplifier, however my motivation for referring the video is possible loss of micro details, are feedback based design amplifiers (like A90D) so aggresive in cleaning the audio signal they end up removing the minutest of the details which were there in the original recording which positively contributed in some way to the music, I myself don't have a way to know if this is infact the case which is why I asked the wise folks here.


That's the issue with trying to define "micro details" in this situation. How can you determine whether these micro details are in the original recording or artifacts introduced by distortion in the amplifier. And that's why a reference point needs to be set somehow, and that's usually a studio reference.

Again, like others have mentioned in this thread, Topping's sound target is basically studio reference, even though they are still classified as consumer product as they don't have the same features as pro devices and didn't go through the necessary pro certification processes (probably why they can keep the price comparatively cheaper than RME products).

To reiterate again, not all distortions are bad. Sound engineers from companies like Schiit and Chord intentionally add some distortions to make the sound better to their ears, and Amir from ASR would then bash their products measurements. Going to ASR's extreme would be stupid as well in my opinion.

So, people like WaveTheory can call these "micro details" or "musicality" or "euphonic" all day, but it doesn't change the fact that they are just nice-sounding distortions that are not in the studio reference. Whether you find that good or bad is something extremely subjective.


----------



## inscythe

Currawong has posted his review of A90D. I think that's a fair and balanced review.


----------



## Revelation Sound

inscythe said:


> Currawong has posted his review of A90D. I think that's a fair and balanced review.



Finally, a review that tells it as it is. When Josh who I respect just says this is the best headphone amp, I go excited as I have a certain trust factor in his comments. However when you see the inside of this unit and you get to see the power supplies, and filters, you get to understand how the latest technology works. I agree in its price range, it probably one of the best headphone amps made. But when you compare it to a higher end headphone amp, there are differences and amps with higher end components don't have some of the cons of this type of design. Granted a lot depends on how deep your wallet is and if you think it is worth paying double or quadruple the price of other higher end headphone amps. The McIntosh MHA 200 tube amp is high on my list, and they give a 30-day money back if I am not blown away by it. TheA900D is another consideration. Both should provide an improved sound over my headphone output on my NAD preamp,


----------



## ezduzit2500

borkenarrou said:


> WaveTheory compared the A90D to various sub $600 amps
> 
> 
> 
> To sum it up he is not too impressed, his main complaints are lack of micro details particularly trailing ones and details in busy passages which he atttibute to A90D's feedback topology (like other THX based amps), I myself dont have higher end amps to compare to know if I am missing anything, so folks who do have high end amps do you agree with his observations.



I'm a sucker for discrete amps - but you can't just throw in a bunch of well-measuring mini-components on a PCB, put in a housing, and call it good via the measurements (did Topping do that?). The listening and comparing phases must be done after the measuring. Schiit has succeeded in a "less is more" type of way, IMO, ie: Putting as few overall components on their PCBs as possible to acheive their SQ goals. Right now I have about 3 discrete amps that each have slightly different presentations - but none sound like the A90D is described......


borkenarrou said:


> he atttibute to A90D's feedback topology


The power supply and power supply capacitors have entered the chat......


----------



## Arniesb

"he atttibute to A90D's feedback topology"
Just hard ignore these type of comments cause such people have a wild imagination.
Power supply can be legit criticism, cause People heard big improvements with ferrum hypsos when using ferrum oor and many more examples.


----------



## ezduzit2500

Arniesb said:


> "he atttibute to A90D's feedback topology"
> Just hard ignore these type of comments cause such people have a wild imagination.
> Power supply can be legit criticism, cause People heard big improvements with ferrum hypsos when using ferrum oor and many more examples.


I would argue that a beefy power supply, above-average supply filtering/capacitance, and beefy, biased-deep-ish into Class A output stages (even if a Class AB amp) are THE defining factors in _any amps' _suitability for the _widest range _of HPs. IMO, of course.....


----------



## borkenarrou

Arniesb said:


> "he atttibute to A90D's feedback topology"
> Just hard ignore these type of comments cause such people have a wild imagination.
> Power supply can be legit criticism, cause People heard big improvements with ferrum hypsos when using ferrum oor and many more examples.


Correction, I am only quoting Wavetheory on this.


----------



## kopczas

Criticism of any small device that pretending to be "giant killer" by audiophiles is result of dogmats that audiophiles has been feeded for years.
To be simple and precise: 
"the  bigger, the better". 
People in my opinion just can not except that technology evolves and it`s not 70`s anymore ( "cause back in a days amps played with soul and heart"  )


----------



## TheMiddleSky

kopczas said:


> But making some crazy theory why A90D measures great but sounds not so much is funny, cause measurement prove that A90D doesn`t sound. Overall distortion is -30db below human hearing, there are on 2nd and 3rd harmonics to interfere, there is plenty of power to drive basically anything on the market.



May I know what's other amp that also "has no sound" that you have tested? 

Last time I checked, the well measured Singxer SA-1 and Topping A90 still sound different when compared to A90D. I never known any "no sound" amp so far.


----------



## jonathan c

TheMiddleSky said:


> I never known any "no sound" amp so far.


🤷🏻‍♂️ mine are before they are on…😜


----------



## killthrash

Worth upgrading my A90 to the discrete? I feel like I'm better off saving the money for whatever complete revision will be released in the next year.


----------



## inscythe (Dec 14, 2022)

TheMiddleSky said:


> May I know what's other amp that also "has no sound" that you have tested?
> 
> Last time I checked, the well measured Singxer SA-1 and Topping A90 still sound different when compared to A90D. I never known any "no sound" amp so far.


I think what he meant by "no sound" means that there is very little coloration of the sound. I'd hate to refer to ASR measurement, but there are some differences between A90, SA-1, and A90D in terms of distortion characteristics against output voltage/power. Not to mention that SA-1 is Class A/AB hybrid as well, so it will definitely sound different.

I guess the benchmark for having no coloration would be comparing it to a pro-grade mastering equipment, like RME ADI-2. I haven't tried it personally as there aren't any demo unit near me, but I spoke to a couple of audio engineers who tried both Topping D90-A90 stack and RME ADI-2, they said that Topping setup is somewhat a 'budget' version of RME. A bunch of online comments also agreed with that sentiment, so I went with A90 last year. That said, it is probably the reason why some people (including myself) prefer A90D to A90 since A90D is probably having more of the nice-sounding distortions that is absent in A90, but still overall very reference-sounding.



killthrash said:


> Worth upgrading my A90 to the discrete? I feel like I'm better off saving the money for whatever complete revision will be released in the next year.


Depends on your needs. I like using IEMs with my desktop setup and sometimes I find the channel imbalance with A90 at lower volume to be quite annoying. I went to upgrade to A90D primarily because of that. I also like having the extra power too. To me personally, A90D brought some improvements in some headphones, some doesn't really change. I guess if I didn't manage to find a buyer for my A90, I won't upgrade to A90D.


----------



## Nellie75

ahmonge said:


> My experience with the Hifiman HE6se v2 (83 dB/mW at 50 Ohms) was OK. No problem getting a high volme at high gain with SE connection to the D30 Pro DAC. The HE6se is famous for needing a lot of power, Hifiman recommends at least two watts.



So are you running the D30pro dac into an A90D?  

I just bought an open box A90D off Apos (on the way).  I figured my Modi3 wouldn’t be a great DAC for it so I just ordered a D30pro on Amazon (like new) for $200.  Mainly because it looks similar and the price was great.  Some people claiming it’s a
Smoother sounding dac as well because of the chip.  Is it a good pairing with A90D?

The matching 90Le dac was just too much for my blood, especially because I have Arya headphones on the way. 

With so many variables, new dac, head amp and new headphones, it will be impossible to tell where the difference is as  I am new to headphone amps.  I’ve only had vintage gear and have been running my HD650s, Sundaras and DT1990pros off my Marantz 2245.


----------



## jjcha (Dec 20, 2022)

inscythe said:


> I guess the benchmark for having no coloration would be comparing it to a pro-grade mastering equipment, like RME ADI-2. I haven't tried it personally as there aren't any demo unit near me, but I spoke to a couple of audio engineers who tried both Topping D90-A90 stack and RME ADI-2, they said that Topping setup is somewhat a 'budget' version of RME. A bunch of online comments also agreed with that sentiment, so I went with A90 last year.



We all hear things differently, and individual circumstances obviously vary quite a bit.  I can only share my experiences.

I've had the RME ADI-2 and a Topping A90D and D90SE stack in the house at the same time.  As well as my Benchmark DAC3 HGC.

I thought the DAC3 and ADI-2 sounded fairly similar as DACs.  I'm sure there are differences, but I'd have to consciously hunt for them and educate my mind to be able to discern them.

The D90SE just sounded... different.  High (over) emphasized detail.  I wouldn't describe it as smooth.  In fact, I found it pretty damned hard and fatiguing with some headphones.  But with some other combinations, as a clinical detail fiend, I enjoyed it.  I didn't find it to be the end all be all though when it came to detail, maybe I was expecting too much.  But the detail that it presented just made me think "so what".  There certainly was more perceived "detail" relative to my DAC3, but it just didn't add to my experience of the music in the same way other highly resolving DACs (I'm thinking of my old Chord DAC64 mk II and Blu) have.

The A90D to me has a distinct sound, which I like a lot.  It does sound powerful, punchy, super well defined.  Surprisingly "warm", or a touch thick-ish sounding.  I don't know if I'd call it neutral or lacking in color.  To me it has its own signature relative to everything else I own.


----------



## TheAbyss2022

Is it the same power output on the 4.4 pentacon and the XLR or is the XLR input outputting more power?


----------



## DMITRIY R

TheAbyss2022 said:


> Is it the same power output on the 4.4 pentacon and the XLR or is the XLR input outputting more power?


4.4 pentacon = XLR


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## JoelWilcox (Dec 23, 2022)

A90D/D90LE stack arriving next week.  Any interoperability between the two remotes?  Also, I see an available (aluminum) replacement for the D90's RC-22, but nada for the A90D's RC-16A. Really? Not even a direct replacement seems available.


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## TheDeafMonk

JoelWilcox said:


> A90D/D90LE stack arriving next week.  Any interoperability between the two remotes?  Also, I see an available (aluminum) replacement for the D90's RC-22, but nada for the A90D's RC-16A. Really? Not even a direct replacement seems available.


I really wish there was a replacement remote


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## JoelWilcox (Dec 23, 2022)

TheDeafMonk said:


> I really wish there was a replacement remote


I suppose some kind of universal may work (anyone?).


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## Revelation Sound

This Lake People headphone amp which is made in Germany seems to be a great option over the Toppings.


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## adeadcrab (Jan 7, 2023)

Sandu from Soundnews is a reviewer whose opinion I respect... I agree with his review of the A90D - it's the real deal and probably the best bang for buck as far as high-end headphone amps go. Keep in mind he scored it the same as Burson Soloist 3X GT, at 93/100...
Had the A90D on my rack for 36+ hours, miles ahead of the 789 - which is a thin line in the middle of your head; the A90D is all encompassing and all around the head.
For burn-in skeptics, look away - straight out of the box the bass seemed too powerful and at times muddying the rest of the frequency range. I left it overnight playing white noise and sounded linear the morning after.. whether it was the discrete components settling in or brain burn-in, that is best left for the reader to decide!
In my chain as a preamp to my OTL amp is fantastic - clean sound, good imaging and soundstage.

My one gripe was I thought it was way too quiet out of the box - thought it was defective actually - I had to read the manual to find out that you can customise the volume curves used - option 5 maxes out at -40dB while option 1 is the loudest at 0 dB at 99 steps.
Out of the box was already at firmware 2.4 which was nice, driving my Sennheiser HD800S at low gain at around 70/99 on the volume. Single ended, which sounds the same as balanced to my ears (unlike the 789 which is basically XLR only!)

edit: Sandu's review - https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/topping-a90-discrete-review-forging-ahead/


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## Arniesb

adeadcrab said:


> Sandu from Soundnews is a reviewer whose opinion I respect... I agree with his review of the A90D - it's the real deal and probably the best bang for buck as far as high-end headphone amps go. Keep in mind he scored it the same as Burson Soloist 3X GT, at 93/100...
> Had the A90D on my rack for 36+ hours, miles ahead of the 789 - which is a thin line in the middle of your head; the A90D is all encompassing and all around the head.
> For burn-in skeptics, look away - straight out of the box the bass seemed too powerful and at times muddying the rest of the frequency range. I left it overnight playing white noise and sounded linear the morning after.. whether it was the discrete components settling in or brain burn-in, that is best left for the reader to decide!
> As a preamp to my OTL amp is fantastic - clean sound, good imaging and soundstage.
> ...


Its funny you know. Sandu rates it as good as benchmark hpa 4 and many guys rate benchmark as top tier amp, atleast when it comes technicalities.
Many snobs for some reason look down on it, with arguments about switchers while 13k Dave also have switcher, Burson also have a switcher, but no one bats an eye.
Sandu is honest guy, he tells it how it is, doesnt use price as performance indication.


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## DMITRIY R

adeadcrab said:


> Sandu from Soundnews is a reviewer whose opinion I respect... I agree with his review of the A90D - it's the real deal and probably the best bang for buck as far as high-end headphone amps go. Keep in mind he scored it the same as Burson Soloist 3X GT, at 93/100...
> Had the A90D on my rack for 36+ hours, miles ahead of the 789 - which is a thin line in the middle of your head; the A90D is all encompassing and all around the head.
> For burn-in skeptics, look away - straight out of the box the bass seemed too powerful and at times muddying the rest of the frequency range. I left it overnight playing white noise and sounded linear the morning after.. whether it was the discrete components settling in or brain burn-in, that is best left for the reader to decide!
> In my chain as a preamp to my OTL amp is fantastic - clean sound, good imaging and soundstage.
> ...


Friends! No need to deceive yourself. The Soloist GT is much better than the A90D. Both amplifiers live in my installation for half a year. 
The main advantages of the Soloist GT over the A90D: 
1. Deeper and more punchy bass and sub bass. 
2. More holographic and realistic scene, in depth, width, height. 
3. Excellent afterglow of musical instruments and realistic sound attenuation effects. 
4. Much more emotionality in the musical presentation. 
5. Ability to work well with most headphones. I managed to listen to the following headphones with this amplifier: Susvara, 1266 TC, DC Stealth, HE 1000 SE, LCD-XC, fostex 610. All headphones sounded good from this amplifier. I had no complaints about the sound. At the same time, the A90D works well (to my ears) only with DC Stealth and fostex 610. The amplifier either didn't have enough power to work with the rest of the headphones, or the sound was very dry and extremely uncomfortable. 
The main advantages of the A90D over the Soloist GT: 1. Price. 2. Volume control. 3. No active cooling system.

p.s.
I bought the A90D after reading and watching enough reviews on this device. I was sure that with its purchase I would be able to save money and send the Violectric V590 and Soloist GT for sale. But according to the results of numerous comparisons, the A90D will be sent for sale. And in this case, I don't regret anything.


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## adeadcrab

DMITRIY R said:


> Friends! No need to deceive yourself. The Soloist GT is much better than the A90D. Both amplifiers live in my installation for half a year.
> The main advantages of the Soloist GT over the A90D:
> 1. Deeper and more punchy bass and sub bass.
> 2. More holographic and realistic scene, in depth, width, height.
> ...


That sounds about right! Soloist GT is also on my list for later this year. I like the transparent, dry sound and will be rolling op-amps in the GT to achieve that sound.
Happy new year


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## DMITRIY R

adeadcrab said:


> That sounds about right! Soloist GT is also on my list for later this year. I like the transparent, dry sound and will be rolling op-amps in the GT to achieve that sound.
> Happy new year


A small addition. 
It is very important that I am understood correctly. I don't think the A90D is a bad amplifier. This is definitely one of the best amplifiers up to $600. BUT, if you are ready to spend more money on your favorite hobby, you definitely need to go further (for example: Violectric 340/550, Niimbus, Holo Bliss, Soloist GT, Ferrum Orr+Hipsos, Flux Volot).

p.s.
I compared the A90D with the Singxer SA-1. To my ear, the A90D sounds better (higher speed, higher resolution, better sound texture).


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## Arniesb

DMITRIY R said:


> A small addition.
> 
> It is very important that I am understood correctly. I don't think the A90D is a bad amplifier. This is definitely one of the best amplifiers up to $600. BUT, if you are ready to spend more money on your favorite hobby, you definitely need to go further (for example: Violectric 340/550, Niimbus, Holo Bliss, Soloist GT, Ferrum Orr+Hipsos, Flux Volot).
> 
> ...





DMITRIY R said:


> A small addition.
> It is very important that I am understood correctly. I don't think the A90D is a bad amplifier. This is definitely one of the best amplifiers up to $600. BUT, if you are ready to spend more money on your favorite hobby, you definitely need to go further (for example: Violectric 340/550, Niimbus, Holo Bliss, Soloist GT, Ferrum Orr+Hipsos, Flux Volot).
> 
> p.s.
> I compared the A90D with the Singxer SA-1. To my ear, the A90D sounds better (higher speed, higher resolution, better sound texture).


Nice impressions. What is rest of your setup? Like dac, source? Cables.


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## DMITRIY R

Arniesb said:


> Nice impressions. What is rest of your setup? Like dac, source? Cables.


Added information in the signature.

At the moment I use the simplest and most affordable cables. 
USB - copper and silver-plated OCС with Aliexpress. 
RCA and XLR wires - copper OCC with Aliexpress. 
Power cables - are the default.


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## ezduzit2500

Nellie75 said:


> So are you running the D30pro dac into an A90D?
> 
> I just bought an open box A90D off Apos (on the way).  I figured my Modi3 wouldn’t be a great DAC for it so I just ordered a D30pro on Amazon (like new) for $200.  Mainly because it looks similar and the price was great.  Some people claiming it’s a
> Smoother sounding dac as well because of the chip.  Is it a good pairing with A90D?
> ...


Let us know what you think of your new setup when you have a chance to play them all in.....


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## jlemaster1957 (Sunday at 10:08 PM)

Nellie75 said:


> So are you running the D30pro dac into an A90D?
> 
> I just bought an open box A90D off Apos (on the way).  I figured my Modi3 wouldn’t be a great DAC for it so I just ordered a D30pro on Amazon (like new) for $200.  Mainly because it looks similar and the price was great.  Some people claiming it’s a
> Smoother sounding dac as well because of the chip.  Is it a good pairing with A90D?
> ...


Just noticed this and wanted to share my experience as a warning- I started about 18 months ago in the hobby in a similar way and kept adding gear of different sorts to complement what I had eg I started out with Drop 6XX and a IFI Zen stack them added some IEMs and before I knew it I was down the rabbit hole (which is a very appropriate simile for audiophiles). I learned a lot and the folks on this forum are fantastic generous and helpful, and I enjoyed all the gear I bought (at least at first). But adding new stuff too fast makes it hard to fully appreciate how it all pairs and complements, and now I’m having to sell stuff (even highly rated stuff) that didn’t fit with the rest. My sophomore advice is simply ‘go slow and enjoy the ride’ -  take the time to fully appreciate the synergies, you can always add something down the road when you have fully considered what gap you are trying to fill. And always ‘enjoy the music’ .

Btw I find the A90D a fantastic piece, especially when paired with a good source and revealing HPs.  The D90SE stack with them works well with the Arya and other HIFIMAN HPs-though I think source matters a lot. I am running the chain on Roon out of a Sonore Optical Rendu (Ethernet in, USB out) and use DSP/ EQ profile from HEADPHONEs.com’s Chronos.


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## TheAbyss2022

I am currently running the A90D with the D90. I was looking at upgrading to the Ifi Pro Ican Signature however, I dont think there will be much point in doing so. The A90D has immense power to run my Audeze LCD 4 and I think it will be better to purchase the ZMF Verete Open or Hifiman HE1000 V2 to add to my collection instead of buying another amp that I don't really need to upgrade.


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## Nellie75

ezduzit2500 said:


> Let us know what you think of your new setup when you have a chance to play them all in.....


So I have been able to compare the A90d to the Burson Soloist 3XP (twice the cost). One of them is going back.

A90D and 3XP sound the same to my 46 year old ears.   The only obvious differences is in soundstage and imaging.  The 3XP is very holographic and encompassing on my Aryas.  I feel like I’m in the room and music is coming at me from above, behind and in front of me.  The A90D does not do this and sounds very 2 dimensional in comparison.  I would describe it as shallow from front to back. 3XP has a lot of depth though so the A90D may not be as bad compared to others in its price bracket.

I am using a SMSL D300 DAC for both headlamps.  It has a Rohm chip and is known for more soundstage and depth than other Chinese DACs.


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## ezduzit2500

Nellie75 said:


> The 3XP is very holographic and encompassing on my Aryas. I feel like I’m in the room and music is coming at me from above, behind and in front of me. The A90D does not do this and sounds very 2 dimensional in comparison.


Therein lies some of the differences between _having a full listening experience_ vs just listening to headphones. What HPs are you listening with......?


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## borkenarrou

DMITRIY R said:


> Friends! No need to deceive yourself. The Soloist GT is much better than the A90D. Both amplifiers live in my installation for half a year.
> The main advantages of the Soloist GT over the A90D:
> 1. Deeper and more punchy bass and sub bass.
> 2. More holographic and realistic scene, in depth, width, height.
> ...


Will be great if you can share some impressions of V590 (amp section) vs the A90D and Soloist GT, specifically is the GT better in some way over the V590 or vice versa

Btw great collection of high end gears 🙂


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## Nellie75 (Tuesday at 10:25 AM)

ezduzit2500 said:


> Therein lies some of the differences between _having a full listening experience_ vs just listening to headphones. What HPs are you listening with......?


Aryas were the ones I was referring to.  However, there are also benefits using my HD600 and DT1990Pros

Honestly, the comparison of the Burson Soloisty 3XP to the A90D is not a fair one.  They are in completely different price categories.  I also have the Burson Supercharger and the Burson is also in "Headamp mode" which takes it up another level.

That said, I like the A90D better in the following ways
-sleek looking case and display and stays cool
-4.4mm balanced
-better remote and easier to select menu options like preamp out
-RCA input jacks elevate volume far better from a turntable with preamp than my Burson which is like 1/2 the volume for some reason.
-Dont need clumsy adapters for RCA output like the Burson

I love the clicky clack volume control!

Btw, I will be posting my Silver A90D (new but open box) in the classifieds soon if anyone is interested.


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## ezduzit2500

Nellie75 said:


> Aryas were the ones I was referring to.  However, there are also benefits using my HD600 and DT1990Pros
> 
> Honestly, the comparison of the Burson Soloisty 3XP to the A90D is not a fair one.  They are in completely different price categories.  I also have the Burson Supercharger and the Burson is also in "Headamp mode" which takes it up another level.
> 
> ...


The old and all-time choices for audio enthusiasts: The choice between ultimate SQ....and convenience - or finding the balance between the two, LOL.....


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