# I Need a Portable DAC/Amp Combo for iPod That's Not an HP-P1 and Not $1K



## ssrock64

I feel like I have to be missing something. I need something to extract the digital bitstream from my Classic when I'm on the go, but the only thing I can think of that does it effectively is the HP-P1. Is there a standalone DAC (or an integrated DAC/amp that'll power the Mad Dog and Alpha Dog well) that works correctly with an iPod, preferably at or below the HP-P1's price point? I have an i20 at home, but I need something to strap to the Classic to run around town.


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## ManAtWork

Try to search the latest release Sony PHA-2, it is exactly what you require.


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## ssrock64

Thanks! And kudos to responding to the thread when it was already two days old!


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## zombywoof

If you are using an iPod Classic, you may want to consider the JDS Labs C5 amp + LOD (such as Fiio L9).  This will bypass the amp on the iPod.  I don't believe that there is any point to a having a DAC with a Classic as it is not capable of digital output through the LOD.  You may want to get someone else to confirm this, but I am pretty sure it is correct.  I am using iPod Classic 7G 160 Gb > Fiio L9 LOD > C5 > Shure SE535...very sweet indeed, and not a bank breaker.  Also a good size match with the iPod.


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## ssrock64

I already use an LOD to my portable amps as it is. Is the external-only amplification a feature that's unique to the C5, or will any portable amp do that from an LOD on the Classic?
  
 Excuse my almost complete lack of knowledge when it comes to portable setups. I've almost always listened from home and at work.


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## SDBiotek

I'm not sure exactly which model of iPod Classic you have, but some versions of the Classic are compatible with the "iDevice" version of the Centrance HiFi M8. I have one of the non iDevice versions, and it is the best sounding portable DAC/amp that I have used. It has adjustable bass, treble, gain, and impedence controls.
  
 The M8 doesn't have an analog input, so it's DAC section is always used.
  
 Try posting over in one of the HiFi M8 threads for more information if you're interested. One of the folks using the M8 with an Apple device will know.  It can power nearly any headphone out there. It even works well with IEMs, although there may be a slight amount of hiss (that happens with my Sony XBA-3s, but it isn't noticeable when music is playing).
  
 It is sold out currently at the Centrance website, but you may be able to find it through other vendors online.


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## ssrock64

I knew about the M8 and I've read a few of its reviews, but I didn't know that it was only $700. I thought it was somewhere around $1.1K, so I hadn't really considered it. I'll see if the sound signature will fit my needs, and whether it works correctly with my (7th-gen) Classic.


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## SDBiotek

Each of us has a unique "price to value" valuation system when it comes to deciding if it is worth spending a certain amount on a piece of gear, but I really feel that the M8 offers an incredible value. I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with how it sounds. There's a reason why CEntrance is struggling to keep it in stock.


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## zombywoof

According to the information I received from JDS before purchasing my C5, the iPod Classic 7G is not capable of digital output.  They specifically stated that the C5 amplifier was a better choice over the C5D DAC/amp combo unit since the analog only output of the Classic would not have take advantage of the DAC built nto the C5D. I would presume, therefore, that unless you want a DAC/amp unit for future DAP's that are capable of digital output, any DAC/amp combo unit will only be functioning as an amp when an LOD is used with and iPod Classic.  The CEntrance HiFi M8 is a DAC/amp unit, and while they show a photo of the Classic on their website, I believe only the amp portion of the M8 will be used.


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## SDBiotek

If that is true about the iPod, then the M8 is a no-go. It only has digital inputs.


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## ssrock64

That's really unfortunate if the seventh-gen no longer has pure digital output abilities, especially since they switched away from Wolfson DACs.


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## zombywoof

ssrock64 said:


> That's really unfortunate if the seventh-gen no longer has pure digital output abilities, especially since they switched away from Wolfson DACs.


 

 If you are interested in the M8, you may want to ask this specific question to CEntrance and see what they say.  The guys at JDS were very responsive to my questions and seemed knowledgeable.  That is all I really have to go on.  None the less, I am very pleased with the JDS > Classic combo.  I will add, however, that to my ears, the biggest single improvement in SQ was when I upgraded from the SE215 to 535's.


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## SDBiotek

I definitely agree, best to contact CEntrance directly, and again, the M8 threads may have some useful information. It doesn't make sense for a newer iPod Classic to not have digital out.


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## zombywoof

sdbiotek said:


> I definitely agree, best to contact CEntrance directly, and again, the M8 threads may have some useful information. It doesn't make sense for a newer iPod Classic to not have digital out.


 

 The Classic is my choice for portable source gear, but let's face it...it ain't exactly new technology.


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## ssrock64

I'll send them an email tonight and report back.


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## ssrock64

I haven't gotten any response. Did anyone else send an email?


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## georgelai57

I use an iPod Classic as my primary source for portable use. If you wish to take an analog signal out of the 30 pin dock, a simple 30 pin to 3.5 mm connecting cable will connect to any amp. If you wish to take a digital signal out of the 30 pin dock, you need a 30 pin to USB cable and there are DAC Amps like the Cypher Labs Theorem, Centrance M8, ADL X1 to consider, or separate standalone DACs like the various Venturecraft ones (eg DD Sockets) and the Cypher Labs Solo -R and -DB. These DAC amps and standalone DACs, as they are Apple MFI (made for iPod) certified will also take the same digital signals from the latest iDevices' Lightning port.


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## georgelai57

In addition, I also have the Astell & Kern AK10 for use as a portable DAC/amp with my iPhone 5 and I understand from that thread that iRiver intends to do a cable for 30 pin iDevices too.


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## ssrock64

georgelai57 said:


> I use an iPod Classic as my primary source for portable use. If you wish to take an analog signal out of the 30 pin dock, a simple 30 pin to 3.5 mm connecting cable will connect to any amp. If you wish to take a digital signal out of the 30 pin dock, you need a 30 pin to USB cable and there are DAC Amps like the Cypher Labs Theorem, Centrance M8, ADL X1 to consider, or separate standalone DACs like the various Venturecraft ones (eg DD Sockets) and the Cypher Labs Solo -R and -DB. These DAC amps and standalone DACs, as they are Apple MFI (made for iPod) certified will also take the same digital signals from the latest iDevices' Lightning port.


 

 And this applies to the seventh generation of the Classic? It wouldn't really make sense for them to take that feature away, but somebody said that it may have been tossed out with the Wolfson DAC for the latest edition.


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## georgelai57

ssrock64 said:


> And this applies to the seventh generation of the Classic? It wouldn't really make sense for them to take that feature away, but somebody said that it may have been tossed out with the Wolfson DAC for the latest edition.



I am using both a 6th and 7th generation iPod Classic. I don't know about iPod Touches or iPads as I don't use them for music.


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## zombywoof

ssrock64 said:


> And this applies to the seventh generation of the Classic? It wouldn't really make sense for them to take that feature away, but somebody said that it may have been tossed out with the Wolfson DAC for the latest edition.


 

 I was told that only Apple devices with iOS7 can provide digital through the LOD.  If this is accurate, then the iPod Classic 7G is not DAC compatible as it is only capable of analog output through the LOD.


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## georgelai57

zombywoof said:


> I was told that only Apple devices with iOS7 can provide digital through the LOD.  If this is accurate, then the iPod Classic 7G is not DAC compatible as it is only capable of analog output through the LOD.



We need to be precise here. The 30 pin connector is on iPod Classics, iPad 3 and earlier, iPhone 4S and earlier. All of these I have and there is absolutely no problem using a 30 pin to USB on apple-certified DAC/amps like those I mentioned in my first reply. Now for my iPad Mini and my iPhone 5 and 5S which have the lightning connector, a lightning to USB wire connecting them to those same DAC/amps also works. 

When you say iOS 7 that only applies to iPhones and iPod touches and iPads. It does not apply to iPod Classics. 

Having said that, some people, not me, don't wish to for whatever reason, use Apple certified MFI DAC/amps eg the JDS C5D and they resort to, in my view, an inelegant solution by using Apple Camera Connection Kit on their iOS 7 iPads etc. 

To confuse matters for you further, I can connect an Apple Lightning-30 pin connector (which is actually a DAC inside) to my iPhone 5, then connect a 30 pin to 3.5 mm to any amp and that works.

In sum, if you stick to your initial enquiry, an IPod Classic WILL work with those Apple-certified MFI DAC amps with no issues whatsoever. One of my iPod Classics is but two months old and it works with ALL those DAC amps I listed. 

I hope this helps.


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## georgelai57

zombywoof said:


> I was told that only Apple devices with iOS7 can provide digital through the LOD.  If this is accurate, then the iPod Classic 7G is not DAC compatible as it is only capable of analog output through the LOD.



I just realized you are not the OP so let me expand further. 

Yes, if you connect a 30 pin to the LOD but the other end is 3.5 mm then it's only an analog signal. But if you connect the 30 pin to USB to those DAC amps I mentioned it will output a digital signal. The LOD with 30 pins is very versatile. It is the MFI DAC amps that does the handshake so to speak and extract the digital signal.


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## ssrock64

Thanks, everyone, especially George. I guess we have a definite answer now!


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## ssrock64

On a mildly related note, can anyone recommend a good-quality 30-pin to RCA cable?


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## jazzman7

Just to clarify:  The CEntrance HiFi-M8 does work with the iPod Classic, but only the most recent one(s) -- the 5th gen iPod Video is not supported, and the 7th gen is (not sure about the 6th gen).  Here is a report back in October, and there are other reports of testing with iPod Classics before this one in the thread. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/622939/the-centrance-hifi-m8-thread/3870#post_9922633
  
 So you can use an iPod Classic as a digital transport like an iPhone/iPod Touch, but it has to be with MFi devices.  I don't have the latest iPod Classic to test, though.


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## georgelai57

My 2 month old 160 GB Classic and my 2-3 year old 120 GB one (don't know if that is officially the 6th Gen) works.


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## intlsubband

The Vamp Verza extracts the digital output from an iPod and runs it through its own DAC and then the amp.
  
 But I also think that, for most listenings, the iPod's built-in DAC does an admirable job. If you connect a line-out doc cable (30-pin to 3.5mm or RCA), the signal goes through the DAC but not the amp, just connect it to an amp and you should be OK to go.
  
 By the way, people here write about "7th gen" ipod - as far as I know there is no such thing - the latest ipod is the iPod Classic from late 2009, they didn't release any new models (not including touch).


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## intlsubband

ssrock64 said:


> On a mildly related note, can anyone recommend a good-quality 30-pin to RCA cable?


 
  
 Audioquest has some of the best ones, I use the Golden Gate one to connect ipod straight to amp, great stuff. http://www.audioquest.com/bridges-falls/golden-gate
  
 They also have more pricey ones.
  
 I still need to get a proper home DAC, but for now, my temporary home setup of ipod -> audioquest golden gate -> amp sounds really nice... once I get a proper DAC though I'll use my Verza just to extract the digital signal from the ipod to the DAC. But the ipod's DAC does admirable job, and I know it's supposed to be the "lesser" ipod DAC (given that it's the more recent model).


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## 329161

zombywoof said:


> If you are using an iPod Classic, you may want to consider the JDS Labs C5 amp + LOD (such as Fiio L9).  This will bypass the amp on the iPod.  I don't believe that there is any point to a having a DAC with a Classic as it is not capable of digital output through the LOD.  You may want to get someone else to confirm this, but I am pretty sure it is correct.  I am using iPod Classic 7G 160 Gb > Fiio L9 LOD > C5 > Shure SE535...very sweet indeed, and not a bank breaker.  Also a good size match with the iPod.


 
 Wrong. I'm using the digital output on the Classic going into the Sony PHA 1. Sounds brilliant too.


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## intlsubband

zombywoof said:


> If you are using an iPod Classic, you may want to consider the JDS Labs C5 amp + LOD (such as Fiio L9).  This will bypass the amp on the iPod.  I don't believe that there is any point to a having a DAC with a Classic as it is not capable of digital output through the LOD.  You may want to get someone else to confirm this, but I am pretty sure it is correct.  I am using iPod Classic 7G 160 Gb > Fiio L9 LOD > C5 > Shure SE535...very sweet indeed, and not a bank breaker.  Also a good size match with the iPod.


 
  
  


dcfac73 said:


> Wrong. I'm using the digital output on the Classic going into the Sony PHA 1. Sounds brilliant too.


 
  
  
 To clarify, for non-apple devices to extract digital signal from ipods, they need to be authorised by apple (labelled "MFi"), so only a few authorised non-apple products are capable of doing that. These include the PHA-1, Vamp Verza, and M8. 
  
 There are also MFi docks that will take digital signal out of the ipod while docking it for home hi-fi setup - such as this one by Onkyo: http://www.intl.onkyo.com/products/accessories/ri-dock/nd-s1/index.html


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## georgelai57

Additional products that are MFI to extract from iDevices are Cypher Labs' Solos (3 products) and Theorem, ADL X1, AK10, Venturecraft (a few here), etc


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## 329161

intlsubband said:


> To clarify, for non-apple devices to extract digital signal from ipods, they need to be authorised by apple (labelled "MFi"), so only a few authorised non-apple products are capable of doing that. These include the PHA-1, Vamp Verza, and M8.
> 
> There are also MFi docks that will take digital signal out of the ipod while docking it for home hi-fi setup - such as this one by Onkyo: http://www.intl.onkyo.com/products/accessories/ri-dock/nd-s1/index.html


 

 Correct. But the post that I quoted stated that digital extraction from the Classic was not possible. AFAIK, there  only a few dac/amps compatible in this way with the Classic (eg PHA1/2, Fostex, and a few others). There are quite a few more which are made for ios (which is not the OS of the Classic).


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## ssrock64

intlsubband said:


> By the way, people here write about "7th gen" ipod - as far as I know there is no such thing - the latest ipod is the iPod Classic from late 2009, they didn't release any new models (not including touch).


 
 It's my understanding that the production run that started in late 2009 is technically an extension of the sixth generation and is sometimes referred to at 6G "revision two", but for marketing purposes it's been called the seventh-generation device. The sixth generation was introduced in 2007, then the 80GB and 160GB models were discontinued in 2008 (the former because of lack of demand and the latter because it still used the thicker, older body style of the previous generation), leaving only the 120GB left. That change is what is referred to as "revision one". The second revision, which is marketed as the seventh-gen device, came in 2009 when Apple fit 160GB of space into the thin sixth-generation body, discontinuing the 120GB version in favor of it a little while later. My iPod is a 160GB model with a thin sixth-gen body, making it a 7G or "revision two" iPod. Its build date is in mid-2011, whereas an early 6G 160GB model would have a 2007 or early 2008 build date.


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## Cotmanatee

Hi!

 I just got an iPod Classic. I was previously using an iPod touch with an Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC via the camera adapter (male lightening bolt to female usb) and loved the setup, but needed more storage. I have tried using an adapter (i.e. a 30 pin to lightening bolt adapter) to connect the DAC to the iPod classic, but it has not worked. From looking through this thread it seems that this likely is not possible to do with the Classic...?
  
 If not, will having a portable amp come close to the sound quality I previously had with a portable DAC? I would like to spend $200 max. JDS Labs C5 and Fiio Q1 come to mind. Any suggestions?
  
 Thanks!
  
 Cheers,
 Nick


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