# SMSL SP200 THX AAA 888 Balanced AMP!



## chillihead

Just read about this guy today. Reading reviews now on the performance. Finally getting some competition with the Massdrop 789! Latest review:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurements-of-smsl-sp200-thx-hp-amp.9242/


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## MiddestFi

I’m shopping for my first dedicated headphone amp and this is at the top of my list. Looking forward to hearing people’s thoughts when they start getting them


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## hf6576

MiddestFi said:


> I’m shopping for my first dedicated headphone amp and this is at the top of my list. Looking forward to hearing people’s thoughts when they start getting them


I ordered one and maybe I can share my experience in a few days.


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## chillihead (Nov 1, 2019)

Cool! Got mine. Here is video of the build quality.


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## MiddestFi

hf6576 said:


> I ordered one and maybe I can share my experience in a few days.



Very eager to hear back!


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## asebastian0

Mine arrived today. Packaging was exceptional at this price. It took one day to go from mainland china to my front door DHL EXPRESS, free. Now I have to wait for Monday to come around to get it wired up to the DENAFRIPS Ares II.

Went with the SP200 since it measured so well, was available and does not require a wall wart. I was impressed that their power supply was internal (no wall wart), then looking at the pcb layout I was similarly impressed. Very good build quality from the exterior to the interior.

Chose this amp because of the above and I wanted a neutral amp so i could hear what th Ares I I sounds like with minimal coloration. Guessing I would never switch from tube to solid state, though I do enjoy a well made solid state amp from time to time. Might even keep it around, who knows.

I'll post some thoughts on this next week. Pretty excited, ive been away from head-fi for about 10 years and there is much to consider.

Side note, the un-boxlike shape of the amp drives me kind of insane. Found a way to trick my eyes by placing it directly under my monitor.

I'll write a bit more when all the various components have arrived, everything's broken in, and I've had some time to reflect on the sound.


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## hf6576

MiddestFi said:


> Very eager to hear back!


I used to have 789. Personally I think the sound of SP200 is as good as 789's, if not better. 
They have the same level of transparency. Nevertheless, I'd say, subjectively, the treble of SP200 sounds a bit more natural. 
SP200 is much smaller than 789, which I like very much. 
I have two cons for SP200. First, if you don't connect the RCA cables firmly, SP200 produce huge noise, which doesn't happen on 789. So take care when you plug or unplug the cables. Second, I don't like the feeling of the volume knob. It feels cheap comparing with 789. 
Overall, I think SP200 is a great deal at this price.


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## Suppa92

wow, this is awesome competition.
only bummer for me is angular rhombus shape of it other than that it's perfect. I really like it's old-school toggle switches.


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## Smasher

hf6576 said:


> I used to have 789. Personally I think the sound of SP200 is as good as 789's, if not better.
> They have the same level of transparency. Nevertheless, I'd say, subjectively, the treble of SP200 sounds a bit more natural.
> SP200 is much smaller than 789, which I like very much.
> I have two cons for SP200. First, if you don't connect the RCA cables firmly, SP200 produce huge noise, which doesn't happen on 789. So take care when you plug or unplug the cables. Second, I don't like the feeling of the volume knob. It feels cheap comparing with 789.
> Overall, I think SP200 is a great deal at this price.



Is there any hiss when used with sensitive IEMs or headphones?


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## Riversalt

asebastian0 said:


> Mine arrived today. Packaging was exceptional at this price. It took one day to go from mainland china to my front door DHL EXPRESS, free. Now I have to wait for Monday to come around to get it wired up to the DENAFRIPS Ares II.
> 
> Went with the SP200 since it measured so well, was available and does not require a wall wart. I was impressed that their power supply was internal (no wall wart), then looking at the pcb layout I was similarly impressed. Very good build quality from the exterior to the interior.
> 
> ...



Alguma novidade?


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## tanjinyi

I got mine a few days ago, impressive soundstage and imaging. Much faster to receive than the delayed 789.


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## chillihead

hf6576 said:


> I used to have 789. Personally I think the sound of SP200 is as good as 789's, if not better.
> They have the same level of transparency. Nevertheless, I'd say, subjectively, the treble of SP200 sounds a bit more natural.
> SP200 is much smaller than 789, which I like very much.
> I have two cons for SP200. First, if you don't connect the RCA cables firmly, SP200 produce huge noise, which doesn't happen on 789. So take care when you plug or unplug the cables. Second, I don't like the feeling of the volume knob. It feels cheap comparing with 789.
> Overall, I think SP200 is a great deal at this price.



I replaced the volume knob with a knurled aluminum machined knob. Much better quality! You can find them online. Way better quality and feel. I think it was 20mm in size but I will need to check.


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## hf6576

chillihead said:


> I replaced the volume knob with a knurled aluminum machined knob. Much better quality! You can find them online. Way better quality and feel. I think it was 20mm in size but I will need to check.


Awesome!


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## hf6576

Smasher said:


> Is there any hiss when used with sensitive IEMs or headphones?


No, not at all.


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## fortunate son

Arrived today, two business days after I ordered it and it works.


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## chillihead

Love the fast shipping coming from China, they are quick!


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## gr8soundz

fortunate son said:


> Arrived today, two business days after I ordered it and it works.



Where did you order your SP200 from?  I ordered direct from Shenzenaudio late last night.


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## fortunate son

gr8soundz said:


> Where did you order your SP200 from?  I ordered direct from Shenzenaudio late last night.



Ordered from this page:
https://apos.audio/products/smsl-sp...MIhvr1vdfZ5QIVA4bICh2TCwNkEAQYAiABEgIh6fD_BwE


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## Shane D

I ordered mine late on 11.11 and it just shipped. I had to use AliExpress, but still bought from Shenzhen Audio. Now it is just waiting and waiting and waiting...

For all you that have received them please feel free to describe your experiences and thoughts on your new toy. Maybe compare it to other amps you own?
I am hoping to use it as a replacement for my Burson Fun-Classic.

Shane D


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## chillihead

Looks like Z Reviews just got a video up.


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## BubbaJay

I ordered one a few hours ago and I'm really looking forward to hearing how good it is compared to my main amp I use in the JDS Labs EL amp.  I'm hoping it's as clear and clean sounding I'm expecting it to be.  I also had to get a 4 pin XLR adapter for my 4.4mm cables since that's what I use with all my headphones.  I really hope more companies start making amps with 4.4mm inputs because to me that's the best balanced connection.


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## Yh173088

Am thinking of ordering it now . Have read a lot about thx , but have not had a chance to try it out .


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## Cat Music

BubbaJay said:


> I ordered one a few hours ago and I'm really looking forward to hearing how good it is compared to my main amp I use in the JDS Labs EL amp.  I'm hoping it's as clear and clean sounding I'm expecting it to be.  I also had to get a 4 pin XLR adapter for my 4.4mm cables since that's what I use with all my headphones.  I really hope more companies start making amps with 4.4mm inputs because to me that's the best balanced connection.


I hope to know your impressions soon


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## fpantalone

On sale here .... https://www.smsl-topping.com/s-SMSL-SP200


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## PaganDL

fpantalone said:


> On sale here .... https://www.smsl-topping.com/s-SMSL-SP200




Thanks @fpantalone,

This makes it even more tempting but may still wait, audio budget is temporarily blown for this month.

Hope you have a great day !


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## Shane D (Nov 17, 2019)

fpantalone said:


> On sale here .... https://www.smsl-topping.com/s-SMSL-SP200



Great deal for a new member! $20.00 off and then 10% off for new customers. I got mine for $249.00 from Shenzhen Audio on 11.11via AliExpress. Will be arriving this week.

I am definitely done shopping for quite a while. This and the Koss E95X within a week of each other puts me on the sidelines long term.

Shane D


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## Yh173088

Shane D said:


> Great deal for a new member! $20.00 off and then 10% off for new customers. I got mine for $249.00 from Shenzhen Audio on 11.11via AliExpress. Will be arriving this week.
> 
> I am definitely done shopping for quite a while. This and the Koss E95X within a week of each other puts me on the sidelines long term.
> 
> Shane D


I had just bought it from Shenzhen audio a few hours ago .. . I think I’ll be getting mine before end of the month . I think they new how popular the 789 was and have anticipated the demand for the 888 . Seems to be in stock everywhere.


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## Shane D

Yh173088 said:


> I had just bought it from Shenzhen audio a few hours ago .. . I think I’ll be getting mine before end of the month . I think they new how popular the 789 was and have anticipated the demand for the 888 . Seems to be in stock everywhere.



You'd think so. I waited for 11.11, but Shenzhen Audio didn't post the sale price until I went to bed. They are about 13 hours ahead of me. I logged in when I woke up and no sale.
I wrote Shenzhen and they referred me to their AliExpress site and I bought there. I waited a few days and it still hadn't shipped. Website stated it wouldn't ship for another four days. I started to cancel the order and they shipped immediately. Scheduled for a Wednesday delivery, which I changed to Thursday.

Now just waiting.

Wandering badly off topic, I got the Koss Electrostatic system from MassDrop yesterday. Very different and very cool. Using it with a Schiit Loki today.

Shane D


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## Propagandist

asebastian0 said:


> Side note, the un-boxlike shape of the amp drives me kind of insane. Found a way to trick my eyes by placing it directly under my monitor.



I don't have one of these, but want one.  And I'd want it slightly more if it wasn't ... what is that, a parallelogram?  Trapezoid?  Geometry class was so long ago...

Thank you for your thoughts - we really appreciate it!


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## chillihead

Good side by side review.


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## ostewart

BubbaJay said:


> I ordered one a few hours ago and I'm really looking forward to hearing how good it is compared to my main amp I use in the JDS Labs EL amp.  I'm hoping it's as clear and clean sounding I'm expecting it to be.  I also had to get a 4 pin XLR adapter for my 4.4mm cables since that's what I use with all my headphones.  I really hope more companies start making amps with 4.4mm inputs because to me that's the best balanced connection.


 
4.4mm is great for portable use, but 4-pin XLR is still the desktop standard. Although a couple of desktop units do have 4.4mm like the Topping DX7 Pro / Sennheiser HDV820.

I'm looking forward to hearing the SP200


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## Makiah S

Unit has arrived, first impressions so far are quite good! Lot's of clean power without excessive gain, Zeo's mentioned he didn't use Hi Gain except for with Abyss which had me a little worried. But with Modi 3 RCA in low gain was not quite enough for my entire library, a good third of it needed Hi Gain. _Phew, _I'll be listening balanced in from RME ADI 2 here shortly!


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## gr8soundz (Nov 18, 2019)

Mine arrived today as well. Listened for about an hour; amazed at the power and clarity of this amp.

Played a dozen songs and tried 4 different headphones so far, all but one via the balanced output. Only used high gain for my 600 ohm T1.2 (by my ears they sound better with the extra power) but never got past 11 o'clock on the volume knob in either setting.

Edit: The amp does get pretty warm. No surprise with something this small having so much power not to mention the built-in power supply but the metal casing seems to manage the heat well.


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## Cat Music

gr8soundz said:


> Mine arrived today as well. Listened for about an hour; amazed at the power and clarity of this amp.
> 
> Played a dozen songs and tried 4 different headphones so far, all but one via the balanced output. Only used high gain for my 600 ohm T1.2 (by my ears they sound better with the extra power) but never got past 11 o'clock on the volume knob in either setting.
> 
> Edit: The amp does get pretty warm. No surprise with something this small having so much power not to mention the built-in power supply but the metal casing seems to manage the heat well.


Is it the best amplifier you've ever tried in your life?


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## chillihead

One thing is for sure, once you run balanced into this guy it really packs a punch. Single ended was good but wow, balanced is amazing! Much more powerful now.


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## gr8soundz

Cat Music said:


> Is it the best amplifier you've ever tried in your life?



With so much gear out there I've yet to hear, I try to avoid making such statements.

I'm partial to portable/transportable gear (which the SP200's small size fits into) so I've only tried a handful of desktop amps. Right now I own a half-dozen portable amps (not counting daps) versus only 2 desktop amps. I also prefer tubes and use an iFi iTube in my setup so 'best' is subjective. Can't recall hearing any amps that sounded 'bad' either; just different.

Just started using it as well but the SP200 could be the best bang-for-buck desktop amp I've tried. If someone is able to pack more than 6W of power into an even smaller, cheaper amp that sounds just as clean/clear and neutral as this I'd love to see it.


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## Shane D

chillihead said:


> One thing is for sure, once you run balanced into this guy it really packs a punch. Single ended was good but wow, balanced is amazing! Much more powerful now.



I believe this amp puts out the same power via SE and Balanced?

Shane D


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## chillihead

I tried both. If you go true balanced in and back out to balanced headphones, you should see a jump in power. With my setup it was obvious.


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## BubbaJay

All I can say is wow.  I've been using my LCD-2C and they sound better than they ever have, the highs sound so much more crisp and clear and the soundstage is also noticeably better.  The one thing I'm afraid of is my Aiva sounding too bright because if the highs on my 2C sound like this the Aiva might be a touch hot sounding, but that's why I have the Loki.  I'll try some of my other headphones later but for now, I'm loving how my 2C sound with this amp.


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## Riversalt

chillihead said:


> I tried both. If you go true balanced in and back out to balanced headphones, you should see a jump in power. With my setup it was obvious.






https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurements-of-smsl-sp200-thx-hp-amp.9242/


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## BubbaJay

Just started to listen to the Aiva and it is not to bright and sounds great just like the 2C, I can tell I'm going to love this amp.


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## chillihead

Riversalt said:


> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurements-of-smsl-sp200-thx-hp-amp.9242/




No I get what your talking about and see the mentioned analysis. I am just stating that from my personal setup, DAC, Headphones, balanced back to front, its very improved. And I am not the only one who noticed this >>>> 15:35


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## Shane D

I bought this unit for a few reasons:

1) Best price for a THX amp

2) SE output is equal to balanced output so that I can keep another amp as my balanced output.

3) Smaller size on the desktop.

I guess I'll see on Thursday.

Shane D


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## chillihead

Shane D said:


> I bought this unit for a few reasons:
> 
> 1) Best price for a THX amp
> 
> ...


Let me know what your initial impressions are. I love it, it's basically been everything I hoped for.


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## gr8soundz

Shane D said:


> I believe this amp puts out the same power via SE and Balanced?
> 
> Shane D





chillihead said:


> No I get what your talking about and see the mentioned analysis. I am just stating that from my personal setup, DAC, Headphones, balanced back to front, its very improved. And I am not the only one who noticed this



According to the specs, SE and balanced have the same power. However, most balanced DACs output a stronger signal (usually twice the power) via XLR such as 4V (compared to perhaps 2V via RCA) so overall output to the amp will sound more powerful.

I read a post from an SMSL rep on another forum wrote the only benefit of using balanced on the SP200 is improved crosstalk. Whether or not the difference is audible is another debate. I'm only using the XLR inputs (and mostly balanced out) thus far so can't speak to any differences yet.


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## BubbaJay

I've literally been listening to my Aiva for like 4 hours straight just in awe at how much cleaner and clearer they sound with this amp.  Unless you're planning on spending thousands on an amp this is all you need, plenty of power and sounds awesome.


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## Cat Music

BubbaJay said:


> I've literally been listening to my Aiva for like 4 hours straight just in awe at how much cleaner and clearer they sound with this amp.  Unless you're planning on spending thousands on an amp this is all you need, plenty of power and sounds awesome.


What DAC are you using for these tests?


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## Makiah S

EL Dac Modi Multi and Some Fiio Daps @Cat Music regarding @BubbaJay 

Regarding the "balanced" I personally find the balanced output of a fully balanced DAC is the benefit of running balanced, so combine the likely improvements of the DAC output with the improved Crosstalk and I imagine the overall subjective experience is better 

That said, I'll be listening on my RME ADI 2 balanced out into SMSL SP200 here shortly, what I appreciate is the amp like Atom is quite transparent but with more power! I've been wanting a solid state amp with quite a lot of headroom and I think this'll fit that role nicely. At least until I can jump up to something like Benchmark's HPA4


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## Makiah S (Nov 20, 2019)

Not the most Flattering pic but let's start with RME ADI 2 listening with some Amazon HD Music Streaming on the satellite station, then I'll move it into the bigger offline/Reference rig in the morning




Well... this thing is impressive, the first desktop under $300 that's really brought my prefazor LCD 2 at the level I expect! 

I normally use my Ember II [All bypass active with a passive PS Filterstage (@atomicbob noise nuke)] and yea I have to admit SMSL SP 200 like Ember II handles LCD 2 quite well! Better than JDS Labs Atom does...


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## BubbaJay

Cat Music said:


> What DAC are you using for these tests?



My JDS Labs EL Dac and I think they pair very well together.  I'm gonna try the Multibit sometime but I'm just really enjoying this setup right now.


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## Makiah S

BubbaJay said:


> My JDS Labs EL Dac and I think they pair very well together.  I'm gonna try the Multibit sometime but I'm just really enjoying this setup right now.



I'd be curious to hear your thought on HD 700 with SP 200 on Modi 3 VS EL Dac,


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## Shane D

chillihead said:


> Let me know what your initial impressions are. I love it, it's basically been everything I hoped for.



My hope is that it will replace my Burson Fun-Classic.

Shane D


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## BubbaJay

Shane D said:


> My hope is that it will replace my Burson Fun-Classic.
> 
> Shane D



Oh, it will.

I've used the Fun before and I'd say it's on the same level as my JDS EL amp and the SP200 is heads and shoulders above it.  The overall clarity is amazing and makes every headphone I've tried sound better.


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## Makiah S

A first more proper picture of the unit with everything I've listened on it with, overall it's quite nice! Moving it over into the big rig now to see how it compares to the Tuuuubes!


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## Shane D

I just got home from an appointment and my amp is here. I am not going to bother opening it today. I got my Koss E95X system on Saturday and I can't take it off my head.

I will have a go at the newbie tomorrow.

Shane D


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## gr8soundz (Nov 21, 2019)

Only had the SP200 a few days but, after watching @Currawong 's video of the Drop 789, I decided to experiment a bit. A few minutes into the video he breaks down the amp's internals, showing how the 789 converts XLR input to single-ended for the SE only volume pot.



That got me thinking how almost all current THX amps (not sure about the Benchmark HPA4) lack fully balanced internals. And with the SP200 having the same power for both outputs, I wondered how it handles signals internally? Does it also convert XLR in to SE then perhaps back to balanced for the front XLR output?  Is it better to go SE in and out to avoid degradation from multiple conversions?

So I decided to test for myself. Here's my desktop setup for now (planning to get a new DAC and will upgrade to an iTube2 very soon):



Dim pic but it's late (the time when mad-scientist ideas always seem to occur) and was the best my phone's night mode could muster.
From top down (but not in order of signal chain):

Schiit Loki
Little Bear MC3
SP200
Soekris dac1101
iFi iTube

I've been using the MC3 for about a year. It's completely passive and serves as a selector with 3 inputs and outputs. I've used it to connect multiple DACs and amps as well a fixed pre-out to my speakers (which solves one of the SP200's shortcomings). It can also convert single-ended RCA input to full differential XLR out; not entirely balanced but similar (afaik) to what happens inside numerous amps. Since most of my desktop is SE (at least until Schiit makes a balanced Loki) I got it to maximize two of my fully balanced amps that only output full power if they detect a differential signal. Being passive, the MC3's XLR output isn't any stronger but it works for getting those amps to use their full balanced circuitry.

Since the SP200 has SE internals, I removed the MC3 but then realized I could connect both SE and XLR at the same time with no difference in voltage and listen for any audible changes. Shouldn't be any risks since I had to both flip the XLR/RCA switch on the amp and turn the selector on the MC3 to swap inputs so only one input at a time would be feeding into the amp.

I used a couple different headphones (Z7, PM-3) with balanced cables but, obviously, had to use different RCA and XLR cables for input as well as balanced to SE adapters to change between the front outputs so no way to avoid some variability. I also kept the volume knob stationary when switching inputs and moving each headphone between front outputs.

I didn't expect to hear any differences but, surprisingly, there was one major difference. At first I thought balanced had a slightly wider soundstage but after changing to my Oppo PM-3s (my long-time go to headphones for A-B comparisons; they're super-neutral, very well isolating, and aren't know for any artificial stage width) that wasn't really it.

*Balanced has a noticeable drop in mid-range compared to SE. Single-end sounds noticeably more pronounced starting from mid-bass all the way up to vocals (male and female). The difference can be heard even when using XLR in to SE out with a stock Oppo 6.3mm cable and no adapters.
*
To ensure the MC3 wasn't causing this phenomenon (although I've never heard anything similar when using it with my other, full balanced amps), I removed it and went direct into the SP200's RCA input (I'd also previously removed the Loki from the chain).

*Using just the SE input, keeping volume stationary, and swapping the same headphone and cable between the front SE and XLR outputs, I heard the same variation: Single-end sounds more forward (a bit shouty compared to balanced) throughout the mid-range. *

None of this affects overall sound quality and the amp still sounds amazing either way. I even thought of which 'tone' I preferred among the two inputs/outputs (I reintroduced the Loki anyway so less a factor for my setup). For now, I'm using full SE in/out and treating the XLR ports as just there for convenience (as I believe others have previously pointed out). I can only conclude the difference I hear has something to do with how the SP200 handles signals internally when using ANY of the balanced connections.


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## Shane D (Nov 21, 2019)

gr8soundz said:


> Only had the SP200 a few days but, after watching @Currawong 's video of the Drop 789, I decided to experiment a bit. A few minutes into the video he breaks down the amp's internals, showing how the 789 converts XLR input to single-ended for the SE only volume pot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Interesting write up. I just plugged in my new amp this morning. I am running SE in and SE out. So far, it works good and sounds good. For today, I just wanted to make sure it works and compare it to the Burson Fun-Classic. I will also plug in an XLR four pin later on to make sure it works OK. I do plan on running this in SE mode full time.
My XLR amp will be the Cavalli LCX (which does wonders with my Beyer T5p.2's).

I just spent five straight days listening to the Koss E95X and normal amp/headphones take some adjustment.


Shane D

PS: This thing is tiny! The smallest AND the cheapest THX amp. A big win in my books.


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## chillihead

I have some IEMs I am going to test this weekend.

Should be interesting. My 2nd amp is the Cavalli Liquid Carbon. Also has been my favorite so far before this one.


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## HanselPA

Is anyone using this amp with Schiit multibit?? Like Modi or Bifrost MB? I’m curious about “synergy” between them.
Thanks in advance!!


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## Makiah S

HanselPA said:


> Is anyone using this amp with Schiit multibit?? Like Modi or Bifrost MB? I’m curious about “synergy” between them.
> Thanks in advance!!



Yea my first day of listening was with Modi 3 and my HE 560, it was good! There's not really much in the way of "synergy" for SP 200 imo


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## HanselPA

Mshenay said:


> Yea my first day of listening was with Modi 3 and my HE 560, it was good! There's not really much in the way of "synergy" for SP 200 imo



Thanks!! Good to know since I own Modi 3, but my intention is to pair it with the Multibit dac’s like Modi MB or Bifrost MB and they have a different sound/impact than Modi 3.


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## Makiah S

HanselPA said:


> Thanks!! Good to know since I own Modi 3, but my intention is to pair it with the Multibit dac’s like Modi MB or Bifrost MB and they have a different sound/impact than Modi 3.



It's less about SP 200 and more about Modi and other multibit stuff, to my ears the Modi 3 is a little soft and wet. I like the staging actually compared to other DACs around $100 but it can lack a certain edge sometimes with certain headphones. What I don't hear from SP 200 is an added "edge" it doesn't sound soft either, so HE 560 which is a harder faster headphone pair'd well enough with Modi 3 I felt. An SP 200 was powerful enough to do HE 560 justice imo


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## Riversalt

So is it confirmed that you have good quality gain with DAC >> AMP rear XLR?
Why have I been thinking of a low cost non xlr dac like the Topping D10 or D30 but I think that would be down to the quality of what the SP200 offers, and that the right and best way would be at least a smsl SU-8 what do you suggest?


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## Cho Worsh (Mar 23, 2022)

Updated:
An amp with lot of power and features but not as musically satisfying as other amps I have heard in the same price range so I returned it for a refund. The SMSL HO200 that I recently bought is another story. I think it is probably going to be a keeper.


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## Makiah S

Cho Worsh said:


> Like the amp very much from 4 pin xlr output with HIFiMan HE5 (original wood cup version) and Verum 1 but to me there is an unattractive depression of the mids and highs with the 300 ohm HD600 and HD800 which sound much better to me with the less expensive Allo Volt + D speaker amp. Horses for courses.



I will say I did notice the staging was a bit compressed with my own HD 800, but I didn't have any such issues with my own Planars like youself. I'm going to explore this more now with my Atom RHNP for comparison


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## gr8soundz

Cho Worsh said:


> Like the amp very much from 4 pin xlr output with HIFiMan HE5 (original wood cup version) and Verum 1 but to me there is an unattractive depression of the mids and highs with the 300 ohm HD600 and HD800 which sound much better to me with the less expensive Allo Volt + D speaker amp. Horses for courses.



Try using the RCA inputs and 6.3mm output.


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## Cho Worsh (Jan 20, 2020)

gr8soundz said:


> Try using the RCA inputs and 6.3mm output.


Edited:
Ultimately gave up on the SP200 and sold it. It offers a lot of power/features for the money I but just couldn't grow to like the amp's tonal balance enough to want to keep listening to it. Yes, tried it both single ended and balanced before I gave up.


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## Makiah S

I'll have some thoughts on this here shortly, starting on my comparisons for SP 200 VS a few other things with HD 600


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## Makiah S (Nov 22, 2019)

Ok so here are my thoughts with just HD 600

I will be honest, outside of my reference system I did/could hear that slightly forward mid-bass to low mid you guys talked about. Honestly I feel it might be a side effect of some 60hz hum off inbound from the Power supply, I used to have issues with that so I swapped my entire refferance review system over to pangea power cables and I run two Mid Range Furman Power-conditioners, each with both analog and digital noise filtering. This systems also has a Schiit Etir running USB to COAX and even my USB is a dedicated PCI card with it's own PSU lead within my desktop. So while I get that not every one buys into the effects of power conditioning I've found benefits.

An discussions with a few of the Tube Vendors/Manufacturers I work with a lot of them confirm the negative side effects of having that 60hz hum off the PSU and also confirm the benefits of removing that noise. Some of you have also seen this referred to as "mains hum," 120hz is typically a ground loop and thankfully I've never had much issues with that aside from Hugo 2? Anyways, with what I feel is a system that effectively removes the majority of " 60 hz Mains Humm" I don't hear any of the "forward" mid bass and low mids.

That said, removing THAT literal noise really opens this unit up I feel! A lot of the issues I had with staging also dissipated once there was better clarity in the low end as I was able to discern longer reverb trails and a more vivid sense of space. Literally sounded like a  walled in space had it's "walls" knocked down likely that mains humm masking and overlapping with those low frequency reverb trails.



Anyways moving onto the Amp by Amp Comparison I really did find SP 200 to be the best among them all

Tracklist tonight was simple

Eagles - Hotel California [Hell Freezes Over (Simpy Vinyl 180g 24Bit Rip)
Hwayoon Lee & Daniil Trifonov  & Roman Patkoló & Anne-Sophie Mutter & Maximilian Hornung - Schubert: Piano Quintet In A Major, Op. 114, D 667-"The Trout"-4. Thema-Andantino-Variazioni I-V-Allegretto  [Forellenquintett - Trout Quintet (Live)]

RME ADI 2 HiPower Out was

Clean Envelope and Tonality
Lacked some Dynamic Contrast
Lacked clarity during busy passages
Staging was a little disjointed sometimes but not "intimate"
JDS Labs Atom

Slightly Soft Envelope
Slight demphasis on attack or leading edge of sound

Clean Tonality
Good Dynamic Contrast
Slightly Smeared Clarity during busy passages
Better than RME ADI2 hiPower Out tho

RHNP

Slightly Soft/Slow Envelope
Slight emphasis on sustain and release
Added a sense of heft and weight in the lows and mids without being "soft"
Presented a "sweeter" top end

Attack was still well defined

Slightly Thick/Wet Tonality
Slightly Intimate Staging
Good precision and cohesiveness but not as "open"

RHNP was as detailed as SP 200 despite not being as transparent. I'll admit I really enjoy RHNP with dynamics that have rolled off bass so HD 600 and K501 pair quite nicely. I strongly dislike HD 800 with RHNP however!!!

I'm moving on to comparing SP 200 to my Hybrid Tube [Ember II with even more power conditioning* lol] with my Planars
*ala @atomicbob noise nuke


----------



## karma37

I'm a sucker for audio gear. I have the xduoo x5 plus amp.. I am tempted to pull the trigger on the sp200.. would I really hear much difference? Have planar phantoms...


----------



## Makiah S (Nov 22, 2019)

An finally I wrapped up the night's listening session by comparing SP 200 to my own Project Ember II, mine has all bypasses active with a Psvane CV181-TII [6SN7] and the aforementioned @atomicbob noise nuke

This comparison was closer than I thought, in the end for my LCD 2 I still felt my Ember was the  better amp but here's how the two units differed

SMSL SP 200

Drier yet Smoother Tonality
Better Defined Macro-dynamics
Even Envelope
Slightly diffuse Micro-Dynamics
Mshenay's Project Ember II

Slight Upper Mid & Top End Emphasis

Richer Tonality
Proportionate sense of heft and weight

Better Defined Micro Dynamics
Sharper Envelope
Slight emphasis on the attack
Slight emphasis on the release or reverb trails

More precise cohesive imaging
Reserved Macro-dynamics
Despite Ember II's slight emphasis creating the perception of more detail I did feel the two units had the same level of total resolve and detail retrieval.

What was lacking with SMSL SP200 and my LCD 2 was a lack of weight and presence, things were often too quick and lacked heft with SMSL SP200. Ember II had a more grounded presentation which not only sounded more natural to my ears but also allowed for a greater perception of detail. Tonally drums often sounded a little thin and one dimensional and Cello's had too much emphasis on the rasp of the body & bow vs the weight and reverb of the instrument. Lifeless is sadly the best way to describe the synergy between Prefazor LCD 2 and SMSL SP200, my LCD 2 sounded much more ALIVE with Ember II.

But overall though what I appreciate about SMSL SP200 is it's consistency. While subjectively didn't enjoy it with my Prefazor LCD 2 I also understand part of that subjective experience has to do with the unique presentation of the headphone it self. Part of why I enjoy Ember II so much is it's kinda odd presentation and ultimate synergy with my DAC an preferred headphones in MY system. Ember II is a tool I've learned how best to use and I don't always like recommending it as not every one will appreciate nor experiment with it sufficiently to get it to perform at it's best within their system. Granted there are no massive LIFE changing tweaks that make Ember II something it isn't in terms of resolve and presentation but the devil is in the details and the small details are what you can fine tune with Ember II. Heck I also have a second tube for my Ember II is quite dry and has a slightly different presentation.

Ultimately SMSL SP 200's more even envelope, linear frequency response, high power output and  transparent presentation will prove more useful/reliable to those without the time or desire to embrace the Project of tuning Ember II.


----------



## ksb643

Mshenay said:


> An finally I wrapped up the night's listening session by comparing SP 200 to my own Project Ember II, mine has all bypasses active with a Psvane CV181-TII [6SN7] and the aforementioned @atomicbob noise nuke
> 
> This comparison was closer than I thought, in the end for my LCD 2 I still felt my Ember was the  better amp but here's how the two units differed
> 
> ...




Great comparison thanks!


----------



## bryceu

Mshenay said:


> An finally I wrapped up the night's listening session by comparing SP 200 to my own Project Ember II, mine has all bypasses active with a Psvane CV181-TII [6SN7] and the aforementioned @atomicbob noise nuke
> 
> This comparison was closer than I thought, in the end for my LCD 2 I still felt my Ember was the  better amp but here's how the two units differed
> 
> ...


Nice comparison, appreciate your thoughts on this. I got the Monoprice 887 and I've owned the Massdrop 789 previously so just wanted to see some thoughts on the SP200. I definitely agree with you that a downside of the new THX amps is the dryness and lack of heft and decay. It feels too fast for its own good sometimes and can lead to dull listening. I read your comparisons with the ADI-2 as well and they seem perfectly aligned with my feelings towards its AMP portion. I'm finding the Mjolnir 2 with LISST to be the most realistic experience from the "SS" amps I own. The 887 is the most linear and cleanest, but lacks engagement.


----------



## Shane D

bryceu said:


> Nice comparison, appreciate your thoughts on this. I got the Monoprice 887 and I've owned the Massdrop 789 previously so just wanted to see some thoughts on the SP200. I definitely agree with you that a downside of the new THX amps is the dryness and lack of heft and decay. It feels too fast for its own good sometimes and can lead to dull listening. I read your comparisons with the ADI-2 as well and they seem perfectly aligned with my feelings towards its AMP portion. I'm finding the Mjolnir 2 with LISST to be the most realistic experience from the "SS" amps I own. The 887 is the most linear and cleanest, but lacks engagement.



It's kind of funny that we all knew what THX's are all about but we are all a little disappointed in the sound. We knew it was going to be quiet, transparent and neutral and we all seem to be a little surprised it has no - take your pick.

I am NOT an audiophile and I really don't want anything transparent or neutral, but I thought this would complete my collection. Also, in Canada the landed price is just over half of the 887/789 so I figured it wouldn't hurt that bad if I was underwhelmed.

To be clear, I don't dislike my SP200, but I am a little underwhelmed against my Burson Fun-Classic. It's sound may change or I may change my opinion and there is still lots of testing and comparing left to do.

Shane D


----------



## bryceu

Shane D said:


> It's kind of funny that we all knew what THX's are all about but we are all a little disappointed in the sound. We knew it was going to be quiet, transparent and neutral and we all seem to be a little surprised it has no - take your pick.
> 
> I am NOT an audiophile and I really don't want anything transparent or neutral, but I thought this would complete my collection. Also, in Canada the landed price is just over half of the 887/789 so I figured it wouldn't hurt that bad if I was underwhelmed.
> 
> ...


Yea I feel you. I guess the surprise is that the closer to "transparent" we get, the result can be less "real" sound. Seems counter-intuitive. But likely because any music/listening we have done previously has been far from the new level of "reference/transparency."


----------



## Shane D

bryceu said:


> Yea I feel you. I guess the surprise is that the closer to "transparent" we get, the result can be less "real" sound. Seems counter-intuitive. But likely because any music/listening we have done previously has been far from the new level of "reference/transparency."



Yeah, no kidding. My favourite headphones are my Grado GH2's and Meze 99 Classic's. Not 'phones you will find in any audiophiles collection.

I may well end up colouring the crap out of it with my Loki. For now I just want to try It out stock with all my 'phones and with some jazz and see where it fits in.

I am glad I bought the cheapest AND smallest THX unit.

Shane D


----------



## bryceu

Yea I think up until this point in my "audiophile" journey I've been attempting to get the "best sound possible." Now that I've gotten to a (subjectively) great spot, its often more about technicalities than enjoyment. I'm definitely blown away often by the technical capibities of the RME + 887 + Verite, very impressive sound (subjective), but sometimes I just wanna chill and enjoy the music more. 

I'm considering the idea of returning the 887 is and just buying the SP200.


----------



## bryceu

Then again Monoprice 3-year warranty is nice.


----------



## Shane D (Nov 22, 2019)

bryceu said:


> Yea I think up until this point in my "audiophile" journey I've been attempting to get the "best sound possible." Now that I've gotten to a (subjectively) great spot, its often more about technicalities than enjoyment. I'm definitely blown away often by the technical capibities of the RME + 887 + Verite, very impressive sound (subjective), but sometimes I just wanna chill and enjoy the music more.
> 
> I'm considering the idea of returning the 887 is and just buying the SP200.



I think it is a good addition, for the right price. 887 and the 789 are both $400.00US. That works out to a landed cost in Canada of about $650.00. I got the SP200 for $370.00, all in.

IMO, everyone should probably have one THX amp and one set of electrostatics in their collection.

I have realized that I am not an audiophile and that I like fun headphones, warm amps and a wide variety of sounds.

Shane D


----------



## Makiah S

bryceu said:


> Nice comparison, appreciate your thoughts on this. I got the Monoprice 887 and I've owned the Massdrop 789 previously so just wanted to see some thoughts on the SP200. I definitely agree with you that a downside of the new THX amps is the dryness and lack of heft and decay. It feels too fast for its own good sometimes and can lead to dull listening. I read your comparisons with the ADI-2 as well and they seem perfectly aligned with my feelings towards its AMP portion. I'm finding the Mjolnir 2 with LISST to be the most realistic experience from the "SS" amps I own. The 887 is the most linear and cleanest, but lacks engagement.



Happy to hear it! 

An honestly transparent HeadAmps work nicely with more "real" sounding headphones. Ether CX is quite nice on SP 200! An as a reviewer I think having a transparent amp is worthwhile, I'm just happy it's not "bright" like what I've heard about the 789


----------



## Shane D

Mshenay said:


> Happy to hear it!
> 
> An honestly transparent HeadAmps work nicely with more "real" sounding headphones. Ether CX is quite nice on SP 200! An as a reviewer I think having a transparent amp is worthwhile, I'm just happy it's not "bright" like what I've heard about the 789



I have found the SP200 bright. Not on every song, but found some guitar work and vocals piercing. One that comes to mind is Malibu by Hole. It was a night and day difference compared to the Burson Fun. With Florence and the Machine, I didn't notice much difference at all.

Every so often I hear something bad and I immediately switch to the Burson and it's not there.

I am using Grado GH2's. I am afraid to hook my Beyer T5p.2's up to this amp, but I will probably try this soon.

So, is it a bright amp or does it just accentuate flawed recordings that the Burson glosses over? I have no idea at this point.

Shane D


----------



## DarKu

Posted *my reviews* for SP200 three days ago.
And yesterday I also compared it with Massdrop THX-789 and with Benchmark HPA4 *right here.*
Enjoy!


----------



## bryceu

I just watched your review DarKu last night DarKu. Nice coverage! 
@Shane D I notice myself feeling like the 887 is bright on various tracks, but when I switch to RME ADI-2 Amp or Mjolnir 2 on that same song, the brightness is still there. I think the 887 just makes it more easily noticeable. As a whole though, I think the 887 is very linear and allows me to turn the volume up past where I would on both RME and Mjolnir 2 amps because of the even frequency response. 
@Mshenay I may try to check out Ether CX, or wait to demo AF2. I owned the Ether 2, and one of the main positives of that headphone to me was definitely the realism.


----------



## Shane D

I am listening this morning with my Meze 99 Classic's and do not find the sound bright at all. I tried Malibu by Hole and it was smooth as silk. 
Of course the overall sound is not as airy and open as the Grado's, but that is to be expected.

Maybe I just need to find a headphone that is a good match for this amp. The Beyer's really surprised me with their synergy with the LCX.

Maybe I'll end up keeping five amps and five sets of headphones. Essentially five separate systems. Sounds like a bit of a nightmare, but maybe...

It seems cruel to separate happy couples.

Shane D


----------



## Riversalt

DarKu said:


> Posted *my reviews* for SP200 three days ago.
> And yesterday I also compared it with Massdrop THX-789 and with Benchmark HPA4 *right here.*
> Enjoy!


In your opinion, could something be changed / changed so that the SP200 gets a bigger, better airier stage?

I plan to give myself the dual SP200 + SMSL SU-8 v2 to drive my hifiman Edition Xv2.


----------



## Shane D (Nov 23, 2019)

I found a nice combo for my SP200: It is the Senn HD58X. This little cheapie headphone keeps surprising me.

Shane D


----------



## 340519

I'm seriously considering this amp.


----------



## Makiah S

dmdm said:


> I'm seriously considering this amp.



You should it sounds seriously good


----------



## tim0chan

I ordered my set direct from the smsl official store and am nowhwere near getting it. Anyone can direct me to decent power cables for it in the mean time?


----------



## Makiah S

tim0chan said:


> I ordered my set direct from the smsl official store and am nowhwere near getting it. Anyone can direct me to decent power cables for it in the mean time?



I like Pangaea, I've not explored anything nicer.

Here's my "cable" talk, if your have power issues in your home like mains noise, then yea cables may help. I had a problem in my apartment, PC keep crashing. I swapped out an old unknown power cable to Pangaea and bam problem solved. I had a few other unknown power cables from like amps and stuff with the same input but no avail. 

So YMMV but try Pangaea, as listed in my review I did find that outside of my REF system and with only [stock cables and wall outlets] there was a lack of low end resolve and a sense of "blur" overall from what is likely mains hum or a 60Hz Hum. Again swapping into my REF System with all it's power conditioners, self powered USB Devices, and Pangaea cables I noticed better low frequency resolve and slam without the "blur"


----------



## CoryGillmore

Mshenay said:


> I like Pangaea, I've not explored anything nicer.
> 
> Here's my "cable" talk, if your have power issues in your home like mains noise, then yea cables may help. I had a problem in my apartment, PC keep crashing. I swapped out an old unknown power cable to Pangaea and bam problem solved. I had a few other unknown power cables from like amps and stuff with the same input but no avail.
> 
> So YMMV but try Pangaea, as listed in my review I did find that outside of my REF system and with only [stock cables and wall outlets] there was a lack of low end resolve and a sense of "blur" overall from what is likely mains hum or a 60Hz Hum. Again swapping into my REF System with all it's power conditioners, self powered USB Devices, and Pangaea cables I noticed better low frequency resolve and slam without the "blur"


Jesus how did you diagnose that PC issue to a power cable? Was it just dumb luck?


----------



## gr8soundz

Mshenay said:


> I like Pangaea, I've not explored anything nicer.
> 
> Here's my "cable" talk, if your have power issues in your home like mains noise, then yea cables may help. I had a problem in my apartment, PC keep crashing. I swapped out an old unknown power cable to Pangaea and bam problem solved. I had a few other unknown power cables from like amps and stuff with the same input but no avail.
> 
> So YMMV but try Pangaea, as listed in my review I did find that outside of my REF system and with only [stock cables and wall outlets] there was a lack of low end resolve and a sense of "blur" overall from what is likely mains hum or a 60Hz Hum. Again swapping into my REF System with all it's power conditioners, self powered USB Devices, and Pangaea cables I noticed better low frequency resolve and slam without the "blur"



I'm also looking at Pangea Cables:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V74T68A

For now I'm using a 1m 15A Monoprice cable going into a Monster HTS1600 power center. The Monoprice cable is very thick but I doubt it has much shielding. Not sure if I'd gain anything with the Pangea or if better to get the cheaper, standard AC-14 cable.


----------



## Makiah S (Nov 24, 2019)

CoryGillmore said:


> Jesus how did you diagnose that PC issue to a power cable? Was it just dumb luck?



Kinda, I'd already disassembled the entire build. Cleaned everything, updated drivers, dug thru admin reports 2 see what else could b causing crashes, tested RAM, HDD GPU, checked 4 viruses mal ware ect...

everything checked out...

my next step was to start testing the PSU but b4 that I thought why not a new cable? It's cheaper than a new psu

All the cheaper OEMish ones didn't make a difference but Pangaea did so tada

I get their base model, usually on sale on Amazon. Like $30 per 6'

An again, I've found power issues are a case by case thing. There are some folks who don't have them some that do!


----------



## Shane D

CoryGillmore said:


> Jesus how did you diagnose that PC issue to a power cable? Was it just dumb luck?



I was thinking the same thing. Was it a continuity test?

Shane D


----------



## Makiah S

Shane D said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Was it a continuity test?
> 
> Shane D






CoryGillmore said:


> Jesus how did you diagnose that PC issue to a power cable? Was it just dumb luck?



Kinda, I'd already disassembled the entire build. Cleaned everything, updated drivers, dug thru admin reports 2 see what else could b causing crashes, tested RAM, HDD GPU, checked 4 viruses mal ware ect...

everything checked out...

my next step was to start testing the PSU but b4 that I thought why not a new cable? It's cheaper than a new psu

All the cheaper OEMish ones didn't make a difference but Pangaea did so tada

I get their base model, usually on sale on Amazon. Like $30 per 6'

An again, I've found power issues are a case by case thing. There are some folks who don't have them some that do!


----------



## Shane D (Nov 24, 2019)

Mshenay said:


> Kinda, I'd already disassembled the entire build. Cleaned everything, updated drivers, dug thru admin reports 2 see what else could b causing crashes, tested RAM, HDD GPU, checked 4 viruses mal ware ect...
> 
> everything checked out...
> 
> ...



Have you done a continuity test, just for giggles, on the old one?

I used to sell fitness equipment and that always my last resort. If the cable harnesses checked out and motors checked out, maybe throw on a new power cord. It didn't often work, but sometimes...

Shane D


----------



## Makiah S

Shane D said:


> Have you done a continuity test, just for giggles?
> 
> I used to sell fitness equipment and that always my last resort. If the cable harnesses checked out and motors checked out, maybe throw on a new power cord. It didn't often work, but sometimes...
> 
> Shane D



On the PSU or old Cables no, if buying a cable didn't work that would have been my next step regarding the PSU


----------



## Shane D

Mshenay said:


> On the PSU or old Cables no, if buying a cable didn't work that would have been my next step regarding the PSU



I was thinking about the power cord. Since you know it is defective, how would a continuity test go?

No biggie, I was just curious.

Shane D


----------



## Makiah S

Shane D said:


> I was thinking about the power cord. Since you know it is defective, how would a continuity test go?
> 
> No biggie, I was just curious.
> 
> Shane D



Couldn't say, old cables were recycled. Some one asked about power cables so I shared my experience about a more or less very accidental discovery.


----------



## HanselPA

tim0chan said:


> I ordered my set direct from the smsl official store and am nowhwere near getting it. Anyone can direct me to decent power cables for it in the mean time?



i’m also waiting for mine. What’s wrong with the power cord included with the amp??


----------



## Makiah S

HanselPA said:


> i’m also waiting for mine. What’s wrong with the power cord included with the amp??



Nothing! I noticed some mains noise in one of my satellite systems BUT every one's home is different, really an truly a new power cable is not needed 

I'll say this, cables are the LAST thing to worry about with any product of even if your wanting to upgrade! 

The amp is quite good, get it and enjoy it man! What headphones do you have?


----------



## HanselPA

Mshenay said:


> Nothing! I noticed some mains noise in one of my satellite systems BUT every one's home is different, really an truly a new power cable is not needed
> 
> I'll say this, cables are the LAST thing to worry about with any product of even if your wanting to upgrade!
> 
> The amp is quite good, get it and enjoy it man! What headphones do you have?



I have HD800 , HD6xx and Elears.
HD800 and Elears I used through Sonarworks True fi .
Also LCD i3.


----------



## Makiah S

Nice stuff! What is your current DAC or Source? What other amps do you own


----------



## HanselPA

Mshenay said:


> Nice stuff! What is your current DAC or Source? What other amps do you own



Current DAC is Modi3 , but Bifrost Multibit is arriving 24 hours after the amp so my plan is set them both together.
IFI Micro BL for moving around and actual amp ( other than the IFI) is Vali2 with an upgrade tube.


----------



## Makiah S

HanselPA said:


> Current DAC is Modi3 , but Bifrost Multibit is arriving 24 hours after the amp so my plan is set them both together.
> IFI Micro BL for moving around and actual amp ( other than the IFI) is Vali2 with an upgrade tube.



That sounds like an awesome system! Yea I wouldn't worry about the power cable. Just let us know what you think of it when ya get it! I also like Modi 3 as a Dac my self, did you get Bifrost 2 or the original BiFrost Multibit


----------



## HanselPA

Mshenay said:


> That sounds like an awesome system! Yea I wouldn't worry about the power cable. Just let us know what you think of it when ya get it! I also like Modi 3 as a Dac my self, did you get Bifrost 2 or the original BiFrost Multibit



The Bifrost before the new Bifrost 2, Schiit put it on sale last week, a limited amount of them for $348 ( three months ago was $600)
I’m not planing balanced in my future and I don’t care about the remote control that and the price difference ($700 vs $350) was all I needed to pull the trigger. I know Bifrost 2 have many more improvements over the anterior Bifrost, but I’m fine with that.


----------



## Makiah S

Ahh nice well I've always heard good stuff about biFrost multi bit anyways 

Awesome Sale price too


----------



## BrainFood (Nov 25, 2019)

Cho Worsh said:


> but to me there is an unattractive depression of the mids and highs with the 300 ohm HD600 and HD800 which sound much better to me with the less expensive Allo Volt + D speaker amp. Horses for courses.


 
Still feel the same about higher impedance phones after more time with the SP200?   

Thinking of pairing it with Beyer DT1990pro (250ohm) and HD 58X (150ohm). But not if there is any depression of highs!?!  

Dac is RME ADI-2.


----------



## Makiah S

BrainFood said:


> Still feel the same about higher impedance phones after more time with the SP200?
> 
> Thinking of pairing it with Beyer DT1990pro (250ohm) and HD 58X (150ohm). But not if there is any depression of highs!?!
> 
> Dac is RME ADI-2.



Honestly if you look at HD 800's frq it actually rather forward from like 20-1k Hz, so in reality the upper mids and top end are a little recessed [assuming you have the SDR mod] 

That said though I also don't like HD 800 on SMSL SP 200 :/, HD 600 though it quite nice to my ears! So no I don't feel SMSL SP200 depresses the highs, and to be honest most distortion specs we see posted online are at 1kz, but the distortion from 20-20K is not "flat" so it's possible the amp your listening with has some distortion in the top end 

That distortion isn't a bad thing either, as it will add a slight bit of emphasis tho after a certain point that "emphasis" just becomes noise. A little distortion [even order] isn't a bad thing, but to much distortion can be. By the same token something that's FAR cleaner than what your used to may also come across as "depressed," @BrainFood  I've got a RME ADI 2 my self and while I prefer tubes for my HD 800, 600 isn't bad by any means. And if your just using the On Board amp on RME ADI 2, I do feel you'll appreciate the improvements SMSL SP200 brings


----------



## BrainFood (Nov 26, 2019)

Mshenay said:


> Honestly if you look at HD 800's frq it actually rather forward from like 20-1k Hz, so in reality the upper mids and top end are a little recessed [assuming you have the SDR mod]
> 
> That said though I also don't like HD 800 on SMSL SP 200 :/, HD 600 though it quite nice to my ears! So no I don't feel SMSL SP200 depresses the highs, and to be honest most distortion specs we see posted online are at 1kz, but the distortion from 20-20K is not "flat" so it's possible the amp your listening with has some distortion in the top end
> 
> That distortion isn't a bad thing either, as it will add a slight bit of emphasis tho after a certain point that "emphasis" just becomes noise. A little distortion [even order] isn't a bad thing, but to much distortion can be. By the same token something that's FAR cleaner than what your used to may also come across as "depressed," @BrainFood  I've got a RME ADI 2 my self and while I prefer tubes for my HD 800, 600 isn't bad by any means. And if your just using the On Board amp on RME ADI 2, I do feel you'll appreciate the improvements SMSL SP200 brings



Thanks! 

Reading the thread on ASR, technically at least, the best input is the RCA and best output XLR:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-smsl-sp200-thx-hp-amp.9242/post-247072

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-smsl-sp200-thx-hp-amp.9242/post-252710


----------



## Makiah S (Nov 25, 2019)

BrainFood said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Reading the thread on ASR, technically at least the best input is the RCA and best output XLR:
> 
> ...



Oh they did, apparently the current revision is .000085 not 93, so they did close the gap on XLR in VS RCA, but RCA is still the better input

At this point I'm not going to switch over to RCA in as it's not practical for my use, however XLR out is very practical for my use!


----------



## chillihead

SMSL now has it direct from Amazon. $260.99

https://www.amazon.com/S-M-S-L-AAA-888-Balanced-Headphone-Ampliﬁer/dp/B07ZNDN5PF


----------



## Shane D

chillihead said:


> SMSL now has it direct from Amazon. $260.99
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/S-M-S-L-AAA-888-Balanced-Headphone-Ampliﬁer/dp/B07ZNDN5PF



Hopefully the Canadians out there  can get it direct from China on Black Friday for a better price.
I paid $249.00 and got the "creative" paperwork and free shipping. My landed cost with conversion and taxes was $370.00. The MassDrop/Monoprice options would have been $650.00ish landed in Canuck Bucks.

On a usage note, I am using this amp today with my Shure 1540's. Sounds good but open back is always better.

Shane D


----------



## arielext

Hi @Shane D, How do you like these with your T5p's and Meze 99 classic's?


----------



## Shane D

arielext said:


> Hi @Shane D, How do you like these with your T5p's and Meze 99 classic's?



My Classic's were okay. I have not tried the T5p.2's yet as I don't think it will be a good match.

So, far (only a few days), my results are:
1) Grado GH2's - my favourite headphones. The combo sounded a little bright to me. Not a good combo.
2) Meze 99 Classic's - my go-to mobile headphones and a Very nice all rounder. Nothing special at all. Clean and clear, but didn't grab me.
3) Senn HD58X's - my cheapest and most surprising headphone. They sounded great together. A nice mix.
4) Shure 1540's - a new addition that I am still trying to figure out. Not a HUGE fan at this point, but with this amp, a very nice combo, but of course limited being a closed back. A few hours today and I will use this rig again tomorrow for some jazz.

I have been reluctant to plug in the T5p.2's as I tend to find them, sometimes, a little bright or dry. I respect the headphones immensely for their skills and abilities, but have never loved them. I suspect these two together will be a little grating, but I will try them by the weekend. 

Going off topic a bit, I _have_ started to love the T5's when hooked up to my LCX. It seems to soften their edge and give them a little soul. That was a surprise to me.

I should get through all of them by this weekend. Then with a good amount of experience listening to this amp I will go through the HP's again for maybe an hour each and see if my opinions have changed. It definitely sounds different than all my other amps and I am sure that I have some built-in biases.  

Shane D


----------



## gr8soundz

Shane D said:


> My Classic's were okay. I have not tried the T5p.2's yet as I don't think it will be a good match.
> 
> So, far (only a few days), my results are:
> 1) Grado GH2's - my favourite headphones. The combo sounded a little bright to me. Not a good combo.
> ...



If your T5p.2's sound anything like my T1.2 then you may be right. Tried my T1.2 with the SP200 a couple times and far from the best pairing imo.

Haven't tried the HD598 yet but my stock T50rp mk3 sounds great with this amp. Sony Z7 also sound great despite the amp being almost too powerful; can't get past 9:30 volume on low gain.


----------



## Shane D

gr8soundz said:


> If your T5p.2's sound anything like my T1.2 then you may be right. Tried my T1.2 with the SP200 a couple times and far from the best pairing imo.
> 
> Haven't tried the HD598 yet but my stock T50rp mk3 sounds great with this amp. Sony Z7 also sound great despite the amp being almost too powerful; can't get past 9:30 volume on low gain.



What amp do you prefer with your T1.2's?

Shane D


----------



## BrainFood (Nov 25, 2019)

gr8soundz said:


> Tried my T1.2 with the SP200 a couple times and far from the best pairing imo.



Ughh, doesn't sound too promising for my DT1990 pro perhaps. Why the poor pairing and what is your source, out of interest?


----------



## gr8soundz

Shane D said:


> What amp do you prefer with your T1.2's?
> 
> Shane D



Schiit Vali 1. My Alo CV5 also works well with them imo.



BrainFood said:


> Ughh, doesn't sound too promising for my DT1990 pro perhaps. Why the poor pairing and what is your source, out of interest?



I'm partial to smaller amps but always get the feeling the T1 was designed for huge tube amps playing compressed music. 

My source is a fanless Win10 PC that I hand-built just for audio. Then I use a Soekris dac1101 fed into an iTube and Schiit Loki before the SP200. Just placed order for an iTube2 and waiting to confirm order for a Metrum Flint dac.


----------



## Shane D

gr8soundz said:


> Schiit Vali 1.



I don't think I have tried my Vali 2 with them yet. Have to put that on the list.

Shane D


----------



## Makiah S

gr8soundz said:


> Schiit Vali 1. My Alo CV5 also works well with them imo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think the thing your hearing is the lack of distortion, Tubes do introduce distortion but it's pleasent an often makes music sound more "real" as long as it isn't excessive. Yes SP 200 is quite lean or dry. Very low distortion so it won't have the same presentaion. Whether or not you find that lack of distortion tolerable and desireable depends on your prefferance. I'll also say ALO Amps have a more natural sound like tubes. I pulled out my ALORX MKB3 today thinking I'd like it with Aeon 2 Closed... turns out I added to much wetness to A2C and I still preffered SMSL SP200 

An the Beyerheadphones I feel do nice with tubes, I loved my DT880 on Vali 1



Shane D said:


> I don't think I have tried my Vali 2 with them yet. Have to put that on the list.
> 
> Shane D



Vali 1 I really like! Vali 2 I respect but was never a fan of,


----------



## gr8soundz (Nov 25, 2019)

Mshenay said:


> I think the thing your hearing is the lack of distortion, Tubes do introduce distortion but it's pleasent an often makes music sound more "real" as long as it isn't excessive. Yes SP 200 is quite lean or dry. Very low distortion so it won't have the same presentaion. Whether or not you find that lack of distortion tolerable and desireable depends on your prefferance. I'll also say ALO Amps have a more natural sound like tubes. I pulled out my ALORX MKB3 today thinking I'd like it with Aeon 2 Closed... turns out I added to much wetness to A2C and I still preffered SMSL SP200
> 
> An the Beyerheadphones I feel do nice with tubes, I loved my DT880 on Vali 1
> 
> ...




Enjoying the SP200 too much to think about it. Perhaps the T1.2 isn't warm enough for such a neutral SS amp.

I get the impression that older, TOTL headphones like the T1 (designed a decade or so ago) seem to be even pickier with modern amps. I mostly use them when playing compressed recordings (that have yet to be remastered). By my ears only the T1.2 is able to 'decompress' the audio and make it sound right.

Never tried the Vali 2. Love the tube sound but don't tube roll and try to avoid exposed glass so I stuck with the original Vali. Tried using a much larger 20+ pound tube amp which did thicken the sound of the T1.2 but the Vali certainly held its own by comparison. In the end, felt the 10x higher cost/weight/size wasn't worth it.


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## tim0chan (Nov 25, 2019)

Just got mine. Finally understand what MOAR power can bring to a system. Gain is a little high for iems but can be attenuated via passive preamp that I have ordered. It's a very effortless but honest amp. If U feed it shiit then that's what you'll get out of it. Monoprice liquid spark is more forgiving. Guess I'll have to get some sort of tube amp for my poorly recorded stuff.
Side note: the LED is so damn bright and the knob needs replacing


----------



## Makiah S

gr8soundz said:


> Enjoying the SP200 too much to think about it. Perhaps the T1.2 isn't warm enough for such a neutral SS amp.
> 
> I get the impression that older, TOTL headphones like the T1 (designed a decade or so ago) seem to be even pickier with modern amps. I mostly use them when playing compressed recordings (that have yet to be remastered). By my ears only the T1.2 is able to 'decompress' the audio and make it sound right.
> 
> Never tried the Vali 2. Love the tube sound but don't tube roll and try to avoid exposed glass so I stuck with the original Vali. Tried using a much larger 20+ pound tube amp which did thicken the sound of the T1.2 but the Vali certainly held its own by comparison. In the end, felt the 10x higher cost/weight/size wasn't worth it.



Mmhm Vali 1s nice for exactly that, 



tim0chan said:


> Just got mine. Finally understand what MOAR power can bring to a system. Gain is a little high for iems but can be attenuated via passive preamp that I have ordered. It's a very effortless but honest amp. If U feed it shiit then that's what you'll get out of it. Monoprice liquid spark is more forgiving. Guess I'll have to get some sort of tube amp for my poorly recorded stuff.
> Side note: the LED is so damn bright and the knob needs replacing



Led I don't mind, and I also would like to see a better pot with a different taper.


----------



## tim0chan

Mshenay said:


> Mmhm Vali 1s nice for exactly that,
> 
> 
> 
> Led I don't mind, and I also would like to see a better pot with a different taper.


The LED is fine as long as you're not looking direct but in a dim room it's no bueno. Maybe we can try replacing the pot ala DIY?


----------



## Makiah S

tim0chan said:


> The LED is fine as long as you're not looking direct but in a dim room it's no bueno. Maybe we can try replacing the pot ala DIY?



If I have to open it up and start doing some DIY changes I'd rather build something myself... it's really just a small complaint of mine and maybe not something every one will even notice


----------



## Makiah S

Phew ok my full review is up! 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/s-m-s-l-sp200-thx-888-amp.24028/reviews#review-22944

Alsooooo here's a nice pairing


----------



## tim0chan

Mshenay said:


> Phew ok my full review is up!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/s-m-s-l-sp200-thx-888-amp.24028/reviews#review-22944
> 
> Alsooooo here's a nice pairing


Could I get more details on that particular pairing? I'm considering getting that hp


----------



## Makiah S (Nov 26, 2019)

tim0chan said:


> Could I get more details on that particular pairing? I'm considering getting that hp



It's good lol, Aeon 2 C doesn't have any glaring tonality issues imo that need to be addressed, a clean well voiced headphone is matched nicely by a clean  powerful amp! I will say at the moment I like Aeon 2C the most with SMSL SP200


----------



## tim0chan

Mshenay said:


> It's good lol, Aeon 2 C doesn't have any glaring tonality issues imo that need to be addressed imo, a clean well voiced headphone is matched nicely by a clean amp! I will say at the moment I like Aeon 2C the most with SMSL SP200!


How about dynamics and speed? Does it have enough slam? Can the HP keep up with the smsl?


----------



## Makiah S

tim0chan said:


> How about dynamics and speed? Does it have enough slam? _Can the HP keep up with the smsl_?



You've got that one backwards! An yea dynamic contrast is better on this unit than the previous, and yes it's certainly slammin! The amp is more than enough to do A2C justice, I wouldn't really advise running A2C on anything less than SP200. The issues I had with RME ADI 2/Atom on HD600 will even MORE apparent when driving something a little more difficult like A2C


----------



## arielext

Shane D said:


> My Classic's were okay. I have not tried the T5p.2's yet as I don't think it will be a good match.
> 
> So, far (only a few days), my results are:
> 1) Grado GH2's - my favourite headphones. The combo sounded a little bright to me. Not a good combo.
> ...


I appreciate the work you put into this. We share some gear like the T5p and SU-8 and I was wondering what the SP-200 can put to the table. I'll wait for your results of your test weekend


----------



## gr8soundz

Mshenay said:


> Phew ok my full review is up!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/s-m-s-l-sp200-thx-888-amp.24028/reviews#review-22944



Nice review.

I'll be ordering some Pangea power cables as well. No hum in my system though so not expecting giant leap in performance. I know from experience cables can make a difference and their 14SE mkII cables seem like good value.

I've tried a couple SMSL amps and have yet to see one with a great volume knob. No doubt one way they keep costs down and I anticipated the same here since the SP200 is over $100 less than the other THX amps (despite having better 888 internals).


----------



## Cat Music

After reading all the comments, I can come to the conclusion that SP200 is indicated for headphones that are not bright, dry or thin, on the contrary it seems to combine well with headphones preferably with warm sound signature, another solution could be to combine it With an DAC AKM (with a warmer sound), it seems that it will not get along with the DAC ESS (cooler or flat sound), I will take advantage of the SP200 when the topping D90 is presented (with AK 4499), I hope it is a good combo!


----------



## Shane D

Cat Music said:


> After reading all the comments, I can come to the conclusion that SP200 is indicated for headphones that are not bright, dry or thin, on the contrary it seems to combine well with headphones preferably with warm sound signature, another solution could be to combine it With an DAC AKM (with a warmer sound), it seems that it will not get along with the DAC ESS (cooler or flat sound), I will take advantage of the SP200 when the topping D90 is presented (with AK 4499), I hope it is a good combo!



That has been my experience so far, but we all hear differently and I am hesitant to put that out there as a "fact". Just an opinion.

Shane D


----------



## Makiah S

Cat Music said:


> After reading all the comments, I can come to the conclusion that SP200 is indicated for headphones that are not bright, dry or thin, on the contrary it seems to combine well with headphones preferably with warm sound signature, another solution could be to combine it With an DAC AKM (with a warmer sound), it seems that it will not get along with the DAC ESS (cooler or flat sound), I will take advantage of the SP200 when the topping D90 is presented (with AK 4499), I hope it is a good combo!



Imo

Sp200 is clean and transparent so you're bright headphone it still going to sound bright, or something that has withdrawn mid-range an a slightly forward bass or recessed bass and slightly forward top end are going to sound exactly that way

I owned the dt880 and I have an HD 800 both share a similar signature and I don't like my HD 800 on sp200 there's nothing wrong with sp200 it's just that I prefer HD 800 when I have a tube amp to help fix some of its tonal imbalances


----------



## BubbaJay

It's been a week now and I still can't get over just how clean my headphones sound now.  I love they way my LCD-2C sound, they have never sounded this good and they were already one of my favorite headphones.  There's not a headphone I've used that doesn't sound significantly better now.


----------



## Makiah S

BubbaJay said:


> It's been a week now and I still can't get over just how clean my headphones sound now.  I love they way my LCD-2C sound, they have never sounded this good and they were already one of my favorite headphones.  There's not a headphone I've used that doesn't sound significantly better now.



Ooooh yea I bet 2C is nice! I'll have to go and give the set I have a listen on sp200


----------



## 19844

BubbaJay said:


> It's been a week now and I still can't get over just how clean my headphones sound now.  I love they way my LCD-2C sound, they have never sounded this good and they were already one of my favorite headphones.  There's not a headphone I've used that doesn't sound significantly better now.



Did you try sp200 with Focal elear if so is it good combination?

Thank you


----------



## BubbaJay

Is it worth going fully balanced with this amp?

I'm thinking of getting the Topping D70 balanced dac to replace my EL dac but I don't know if it's really worth it.  Even if it's not the D70 is still a really good dac so I might get it anyway or maybe the EL Dac II that JDS has now since I really like my original.


----------



## Makiah S (Nov 27, 2019)

BubbaJay said:


> Is it worth going fully balanced with this amp?
> 
> I'm thinking of getting the Topping D70 balanced dac to replace my EL dac but I don't know if it's really worth it.  Even if it's not the D70 is still a really good dac so I might get it anyway or maybe the EL Dac II that JDS has now since I really like my original.



Actually the opposite is true it's better to use the RCA inputs as the XLR have an extra stage of Hardware that brings the performance down like 2DB versus rca in

So a better single-ended DAC is going to serve you well assuming the single-ended output of the DAC is equivalent to the balance output of the balance dac, as sp200 cannot run fully balanced and actually does not perform better with balanced

Additionally you want to use the 4-pin XLR out as it has better cross talk, so RCA in 4 pin out is the optimal way to run sp200


----------



## tim0chan

Mshenay said:


> Actually the opposite is true it's better to use the RCA inputs as the XLR have an extra stage of Hardware that brings the performance down like 2DB versus rca in
> 
> So a better single-ended DAC is going to serve you well assuming the single-ended output of the DAC is equivalent to the balance output of the balance dac, as sp200 cannot run fully balanced and actually does not perform better with balanced
> 
> Additionally you want to use the 4-pin XLR out as it has better cross talk, so RCA in 4 pin out is the optimal way to run sp200


I'm planning on using the XLR in inputs with my balanced dap


----------



## BubbaJay

Mshenay said:


> Actually the opposite is true it's better to use the RCA inputs as the XLR have an extra stage of Hardware that brings the performance down like 2DB versus rca in
> 
> So a better single-ended DAC is going to serve you well assuming the single-ended output of the DAC is equivalent to the balance output of the balance dac, as sp200 cannot run fully balanced and actually does not perform better with balanced
> 
> Additionally you want to use the 4-pin XLR out as it has better cross talk, so RCA in 4 pin out is the optimal way to run sp200



Thanks, I heard it won't run true balanced but I wasn't sure.  I don't know if I'm going to get the D70 because I know what to expect from the JDS Labs dac so I think I might just upgrade to the EL Dac II.


----------



## BrainFood (Nov 27, 2019)

tim0chan said:


> I'm planning on using the XLR in inputs with my balanced dap


 
That's absolutely fine....will sound great.



Mshenay said:


> Additionally you want to use the 4-pin XLR out as it has better cross talk



What's the best way of doing that with my 6.3mm jack of my DT1990 pro cable...use some kind of 6.3mm to XLR adapter?


----------



## ronfifer

Specs say output power is 6w @32ohm but they dont specify balanced or SE?


----------



## Shane D

Mshenay said:


> Actually the opposite is true it's better to use the RCA inputs as the XLR have an extra stage of Hardware that brings the performance down like 2DB versus rca in
> 
> So a better single-ended DAC is going to serve you well assuming the single-ended output of the DAC is equivalent to the balance output of the balance dac, as sp200 cannot run fully balanced and actually does not perform better with balanced
> 
> Additionally you want to use the 4-pin XLR out as it has better cross talk, so RCA in 4 pin out is the optimal way to run sp200



I am actually doing this right now. I have finally plugged in my Beyer T5p.2's. They still had the XLR cable in from their time with the LCX.

Sounds better than I thought it would as a combo. Have to try several kinds of music today.
What a difference going from the Shure 1540's to these. Both are closed back, but what a Large step up in sound quality. Usually with closed backs I get a feeling of being stifled or that I am not getting all the sound. The T5p.2's come the closest to sounding open in my collection.

On a side note, when I first got my LCX I Really didn't like the sounds it was making. Sounded very harsh. After dozens of hours it started to sound better and has since become a favourite with certain 'phones.

With this amp, right out of the box, it did not sound great to me. It sounded strident or sharp. I used the word bright to try to describe it. Now that I have 20 to 25 hours on it I feel differently. Physical burn-in or brain burn-in? I always vote brain burn-in. I will have to go back to the Grado's by the weekend and try a take two.

A truly neutral amp takes some getting used to.

Shane D


----------



## Makiah S (Nov 27, 2019)

BrainFood said:


> That's absolutely fine....will sound great.
> 
> 
> 
> What's the best way of doing that with my 6.5mm [1/4"] jack of my DT1990 pro cable...use some kind of 6.3mm to XLR adapter?



Absolutely not!

If you'd like you can have your DT 1990 re-terminated for 4pin XLR use. You can go from 4pin XLR to 6.5mm SE no problem but NEVER go from 6.5mm SE to 4pin XLR



BubbaJay said:


> Thanks, I heard it won't run true balanced but I wasn't sure.  I don't know if I'm going to get the D70 because I know what to expect from the JDS Labs dac so I think I might just upgrade to the EL Dac II.



The amp runs in like a dual mono config, so there's benefits to using the 4pin OUT. But there's no benefit to XLR in aside from convenience,

An either way the differences are like -2b off of -120 dB so nothing that's audible by any means. It's a good amp if you have XLR input use them, if you don't have 4pin Terminated headphones then use 6.5mm. I wouldn't fret about getting a balanced anything to use with the amp. What ever money you might spend getting Balanced Headphone Cables or a new Balanced DAC could likely go towards a better headphone if you feel the performance of what you have isn't good enough on SP 200 or even a different DAC that is more suited to your tastes.

The Schiit Multibit stuff is nice and will give those of you who have Beyerdynamic Headphones and Grado's a slightly fuller presentation. Also any dac with a Slow Roll Off Filter will also pair nicely with those REALLY bright headphones,

At this price point SP 200 is pretty much it, it's possible the Monoprice 887 or THX 789 may perform similarly but  most of the stand TRUE out solid state amps in my mind have been Benchmarks HPA4 and the Bricasti M3 Dac/Amp combo both are fully differential designs. Most of the full differential [not the "converts to"] but end to end differential balanced amps I see are over like 1,000, I hear SPL Phonitor X is also good

That's not to say there aren't some really excellent dual mono Single Ended amps above $200, heck, maybe even some better than SP 200. My point is spending money on balanced gear to run XLR into SP 200 is a waste, and re-terminating your headphones for use with only ONE amp is also a waste, rather than "optimize" switch to a better headphone or DAC that suites your tastes


----------



## Makiah S (Nov 27, 2019)

Shane D said:


> I am actually doing this right now. I have finally plugged in my Beyer T5p.2's. They still had the XLR cable in from their time with the LCX.
> 
> Sounds better than I thought it would as a combo. Have to try several kinds of music today.
> What a difference going from the Shure 1540's to these. Both are closed back, but what a Large step up in sound quality. Usually with closed backs I get a feeling of being stifled or that I am not getting all the sound. The T5p.2's come the closest to sounding open in my collection.
> ...



Yea it can, if your used to having coloration in your system it's easy to forget the base response of the headphone itself. Like I tend to forget that HD 800 is a bit withdrawn in the midrange, but moving to SP 200 it's kinda obvious! An when I look at frequency response for HD 800 what I'm hearing is matched or supported by the objective measurements.

An frankly if you like having that coloration or slight added distortion that's fine There are many headphones that have a richer harmonic presentation that really benefit from a clean neutral amp like SP200. An like wise there's other products that benefit from a slight touch of "color" like HD 800 often does


----------



## ronfifer

Is this amp considered a truly balanced amp? If I rewire a Fostex T50RP MK3 headphone to become balanced (Argon MK3 mod), will this be the right amp to make full use of the modded headphone? or is XLR output = SE output without any separation of channels? -Thanks


----------



## BrainFood

ronfifer said:


> Is this amp considered a truly balanced amp?



No and, imo, shouldn't be described as one.


----------



## Makiah S

ronfifer said:


> Is this amp considered a truly balanced amp? If I rewire a Fostex T50RP MK3 headphone to become balanced (Argon MK3 mod), will this be the right amp to make full use of the modded headphone? or is XLR output = SE output without any separation of channels? -Thanks



Channel seperation is a spec, SE an XLR both have a measurable level of channel seperation. With XLR out that measured spec is higher, so the output should be Audibly clearer

The question is whether or not the difference is actually audible to all listeners, if the internals of the fostex t50rp MK3 can support a balanced cable and ballanced wiring then go for it as you'll get the best performance with the XLR 

will you hear a difference after that I can't say, power-wise though yes sp200 is more than enough


----------



## ronfifer

just wondering if the SP200 offers clearer channel separation and a more refined sound quality in XLR out compared to SE out, or is it the same the circuit but with 2 different output adapters (XLR & SE) for convenience? I am not referring to volume gain.


----------



## ronfifer (Nov 27, 2019)

Riversalt said:


> In your opinion, could something be changed / changed so that the SP200 gets a bigger, better airier stage?
> 
> I plan to give myself the dual SP200 + SMSL SU-8 v2 to drive my hifiman Edition Xv2.



I plan to purchase the same combo as you, Riversalt. I assume it is too early to ask if you've tried it yet. My only concern is that I plan to purchase many planar headphones and mod them to become balanced, but this amp might not offer a true balanced output since it shares the same power rating as the SE output, and users did not notice any clear improvement in sound quality when switching between the two, other than volume gain. One user reported a more forward sound using the SE output. I want to love it but,,,


----------



## bryceu

BubbaJay said:


> It's been a week now and I still can't get over just how clean my headphones sound now.  I love they way my LCD-2C sound, they have never sounded this good and they were already one of my favorite headphones.  There's not a headphone I've used that doesn't sound significantly better now.


I owned the LCD-2C a while ago, but I can imagine this pairing to be very good! The signature of the 2C should be great with the SP200.



ronfifer said:


> just wondering if the SP200 offers clearer channel separation and a more refined sound quality in XLR out compared to SE out, or is it the same the circuit but with 2 different output adapters (XLR & SE) for convenience? I am not referring to volume gain.


It won't. Unless you need the extra power, the XLR output isn't going to add any sound improvements.


----------



## ronfifer

bryceu said:


> It won't. Unless you need the extra power, the XLR output isn't going to add any sound improvements.



Does this also apply to the other THX 789 amp on massdrop? the XLR output is just for "convenience" ?


----------



## Shane D (Nov 27, 2019)

Really enjoying my music right now.

ZX300 DAP to SMSL SU-8 to Schiit Loki via SE to SP200 via SE and XLR to Beyer T5p.2's.
Add a small amount of bass and mid range and you get aural bliss. 9:00 on the amp is loud and I have to go a little lower.
Theory of a Deadman sounds great!

Shane D


----------



## bryceu

Yes. SE performance is going to be the same as XLR, unless you are pushing the power limits of the SE output, then you will benefit from the XLR output. True for Massdrop 789, Monoprice 887, SMSL 888. None are truly balanced amplifiers. Currawong has a nice video covering the internals of the 789 if it's of any interest.


----------



## Yh173088

Just received mine today ! Ordered on 17 nov , so took about 10 days . Which is very fast compared to MD . 
looking forward to the weekend so I can really sit down and enjoy.


----------



## Riversalt

ronfifer said:


> I plan to purchase the same combo as you, Riversalt. I assume it is too early to ask if you've tried it yet. My only concern is that I plan to purchase many planar headphones and mod them to become balanced, but this amp might not offer a true balanced output since it shares the same power rating as the SE output, and users did not notice any clear improvement in sound quality when switching between the two, other than volume gain. One user reported a more forward sound using the SE output. I want to love it but,,,


I haven't received my SP200 and SU-8 drive yet.
Looking forward.


----------



## ronfifer

Plz do share your impressions of the pair whenever possible.


----------



## relevate

Hello, 
I had the chance to demo the Benchmark HPA 4 and the SMSL SP200 with Sennheiser HD800s and HD820. The SMSL is impressing for it's price. Both share the same sound signature, but Benchmark does this a little bit more refined with a better soundstage.


----------



## ronfifer

The sp200 is a little bit more refined than the HPA4?


----------



## relevate (Nov 27, 2019)

No, no. The Benchmark is of course a little bit better than the SMSL. But the differences between them are not as big as one might expect regarding the price difference between them. 300€ for the SMSL vs. 3.500€ for the Benchmark should make a difference anyway.


----------



## relevate

I liked the Benchmark very much… but i prefer my Questyle stack


----------



## Cat Music

I do not understand what sense to put SE and XLR input when the difference does not exist in the SP200, the better would have avoided placing the two inputs, was it not more practical to put only one input?


----------



## relevate

I think it's only for convenience and connectivity…


----------



## ronfifer

Since XLR input has no added value in the SP200, and users here recommend using RCA in and XLR out, can i pair the SP200 amp with the JDS OL DAC ($99) which only has RCS output? Would i be risking any degradation in quality? Do i have to pair it with a balanced DAC?


----------



## relevate

You don't have to pair it with a balanced DAC. I suppose you aren't risking any loss of audio quality since the SP200 does handle XLR internally to RCA single-ended, it's not built symmetrically. The better way would be a balanced DAC with a fully symmetrically built amp.


----------



## Riversalt

Cat Music said:


> I do not understand what sense to put SE and XLR input when the difference does not exist in the SP200, the better would have avoided placing the two inputs, was it not more practical to put only one input?


Very useful for those who have several headphones, with different cables, do not need to use adapter like this photo, sorry.


----------



## Riversalt

relevate said:


> You don't have to pair it with a balanced DAC. I suppose you aren't risking any loss of audio quality since the SP200 does handle XLR internally to RCA single-ended, it's not built symmetrically. The better way would be a balanced DAC with a fully symmetrically built amp.


I ordered XLR Neutrik + Mogami cable 2549 plugs for interconect SP200 >> SU-8.
Now I can't go back.


----------



## ronfifer

He was referring to the XLR inputs of the SP200 which are strictly connected to the DAC. This has nothing to do with kind of headphone termination users have, thus the "convenience" argument is invalid here. It is only valid for the XLR output.


----------



## ronfifer

Which of the following dacs to pair with this amp? I have to decide very soon but i can't.

- JDS OL DAC $155
- Schiit Modi 3 $118
- SMSL Su-8 $165 (only one with balanced output but you guys say it doesn't matter for the SP200 amp)

All include optical in and shipping fees.


----------



## Makiah S

The XLR Outputs measured performance is better than that of the SE out, I doubt it's audible given the already impressive distortion specs but from an objective standpoint RCA in and XLR out is the best. Again it's unlikely you'll hear a big difference if any and the added convince is likely a large factor to why there's dual 3pin IN and 4pin out. 

Anyways, 


ronfifer said:


> Which of the following dacs to pair with this amp? I have to decide very soon but i can't.
> 
> - JDS OL DAC $155
> - Schiit Modi 3 $118
> ...



I've heard Modi 3 with SP 200 it's not bad, what headphone are you pairing it with? Something bright like a Grado or Beyerdynamic or even an Audio Technica would work nice with Modi 3. But a darker headphone like HD 6XX will likely be kinda dull with Modi 3 as the DAC and SP200 as the amp, because Modi 3 is imo a little soft sounding as is HD 6XX

A "soft" dac with a "hard" headphone [in terms of presentation] is a nice mix, especially when your amp is as transparent as SP 200

@relevate it's good to hear HPA4 and SP 200 share a similar presentation with better staging and likely technicalities on HPA 4, I've heard the full Benchmark system and it was exceptional. Tho I've yet to compare SP 200 and HPA4 directly with the same source/ files and headphone 

That said I'm happy to hear you were able to and thank you for your impressions!


----------



## ronfifer

Mshenay said:


> I've heard Modi 3 with SP 200 it's not bad, what headphone are you pairing it with?



I will be using the AKG k702 and HE-4XX with the SP200 amp and only for competitive fps gaming out of my onboard audio chip on laptop. Separation, detail  retrieval,  and soundstage are hence very important. Do you therefore recommend:
-  modi 3 dac
- JDS OL Dac
- SMSL Su-8 Dac (has "balanced output")


----------



## Makiah S

ronfifer said:


> I will be using the AKG k702 and HE-4XX with the SP200 amp and only for competitive fps gaming out of my onboard audio chip on laptop. Separation, detail  retrieval,  and soundstage are hence very important. Do you therefore recommend:
> -  modi 3 dac
> - JDS OL Dac
> - SMSL Su-8 Dac (has "balanced output")



Well Modi 3 and OL Dac likely won't be the best. OL Dac has some top end roll off which is great for music but not the best for positional gaming, Modi 3 is again excellent for music but maybe not the best at emphasis that specific of Macrodetail 

SMSL Su-8 has an ESS Dac chipset, and I've always found those dac chipsets to do well at emphasis micro detail like positional cue's in game [footsteps ect....] so based off my own experience I'd like go for the SMSL. K702 will also likely do well for gaming, nice open sound stage and a little top end emphasis. Tho the bass can be a bit boomy, but I doubt it'll be obvious with SP 200


----------



## ronfifer

Thanks Mshenay, this definitely helps.


----------



## tim0chan

Mshenay said:


> Well Modi 3 and OL Dac likely won't be the best. OL Dac has some top end roll off which is great for music but not the best for positional gaming, Modi 3 is again excellent for music but maybe not the best at emphasis that specific of Macrodetail
> 
> SMSL Su-8 has an ESS Dac chipset, and I've always found those dac chipsets to do well at emphasis micro detail like positional cue's in game [footsteps ect....] so based off my own experience I'd like go for the SMSL. K702 will also likely do well for gaming, nice open sound stage and a little top end emphasis. Tho the bass can be a bit boomy, but I doubt it'll be obvious with SP 200


What about the EL DAC (and by extension it's new ver)


----------



## Cat Music

Mshenay said:


> A "soft" dac with a "hard" headphone [in terms of presentation] is a nice mix, especially when your amp is as transparent as SP 200


The problem for me is knowing that Dac has a soft signature? ... unfortunately where I live there is no store to try Dacs, so I only have to buy "trial and error"


----------



## Makiah S

Yea it helps to hear things, 

EL Dac would be a nice pair with SP200 and some BRIGHT headphones


----------



## 340519

Well fellas, I just ordered one on amazon.ca! Super stoked.

It will be my benchmark dac1 to the 888.


----------



## Shane D

dmdm said:


> Well fellas, I just ordered one on amazon.ca! Super stoked.
> 
> It will be my benchmark dac1 to the 888.



So, did you buy an El DAC?

Shane D


----------



## 340519

Shane D said:


> So, did you buy an El DAC?
> 
> Shane D


I already own an EL dac. I bought the 888.


----------



## ronfifer

Would appreciate your quick say as I am about to checkout from Amazon:

Which is a better pairing with the SP200 amp: 

Topping D30 DAC? OR SMSL SU-8 DAC? They have similar reviews in terms of sound quality, even with the balanced output of the SU-8. The D30 is cheaper.

My application is competitive FPS gaming with the AKG K702 and HE-4XX cans.


----------



## tim0chan

ronfifer said:


> Would appreciate your quick say as I am about to checkout from Amazon:
> 
> Which is a better pairing with the SP200 amp:
> 
> ...


I would recommend the topping d50s. It doesn't have the was hump and has convenient bluetooth connection. (A feature that you may come to appreciate). It measures and sound good as well


----------



## ronfifer

tim0chan said:


> I would recommend the topping d50s. It doesn't have the was hump and has convenient bluetooth connection. (A feature that you may come to appreciate). It measures and sound good as well



What is the was hump?


----------



## tim0chan

ronfifer said:


> What is the was hump?


Ess sabre DAC distortion hump. In real life listening it usually manifests as a harsher sound


----------



## ronfifer (Nov 29, 2019)

tim0chan said:


> Ess sabre DAC distortion hump. In real life listening it usually manifests as a harsher sound



But the Topping D50s does have an ESS Sabre chip as well.


----------



## tim0chan

ronfifer said:


> But the Topping D50s does have an ESS Sabre chip as well.


It has no hump if you look at the measurements. But measurements are not the whole picture. In my opinion, topping d50s is smoother and has a more versatile feature set


----------



## HanselPA

Magnificent sound!!


----------



## tim0chan

Jun


HanselPA said:


> Magnificent sound!!


That is literally the combo I want xD


----------



## 340519

I'm getting the unit via dhl express. I bought it on Amazon.ca. Any one get any duties they had to pay with the delivery?


----------



## Shane D

Using my SP200 with the Grado's today and it sounds pretty good. I am pretty much completely at peace with the SP200 sound now. As with my Burson Fun-Classic I use my Schiit Loki with the SP200 to "tune" my Grado's and my Beyer's. Just a little shot of bass and mid range.

This amp certainly took getting used to, just like my Cavalli LCX. To me, both sounded bad out of the gate. It will now be really interesting to see how my other amps compare after using this so much.

I can't wait to get back to the Koss system, l love the Cavalli sound and want to explore tubes further, but this amp is a great addition to the collection. Great sounds and a great variety.

Shane D


----------



## Makiah S

ronfifer said:


> But the Topping D50s does have an ESS Sabre chip as well.





tim0chan said:


> It has no hump if you look at the measurements. But measurements are not the whole picture. In my opinion, topping d50s is smoother and has a more versatile feature set



Yea the typical ESS Sabre Hump adds like an edge to things, some hear it as "harsh" if you've never heard it. It'll come across as "sharp" 

It's adds a some what unnatural emphasis to things but for gaming you may want that, the few ESS Sabre Dacs I had with the "hump" sound overly focused. Again bad for music but maybe good for gaming. Have you reached out and read over @Mad Lust Envy gaming thread about what Dacs work well for gaming?


----------



## Robschina

I just ordered the Topping d50s dac to go with my SMSL SP200. Would I be able to use the power supply from my liquid spark amp with the d50s dac? I also have a Magni amp that has a power supply.


----------



## ronfifer (Nov 30, 2019)

Mshenay said:


> Have you reached out and read over @Mad Lust Envy gaming thread about what Dacs work well for gaming?



It's a one sided thread with no capacity to have a conversation about anything other than the soundblasterX G6 as a solution to everything.


----------



## tim0chan

Ch


Robschina said:


> I just ordered the Topping d50s dac to go with my SMSL SP200. Would I be able to use the power supply from my liquid spark amp with the d50s dac? I also have a Magni amp that has a power supply.


No please don't xD all of the power supplies have diffrdiff voltages and the magni power supply is Ac. If you really want a better power supply, usi g a power bank would be the cheapest option


----------



## Robschina

Thanks...What size power bank should I get and would I just leave it plugged into the outlet like a regular power brick?


----------



## Makiah S (Nov 30, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> It's a one sided thread with no capacity to have a conversation about anything other than the soundblasterX G6 as a solution to everything.



Oh well that sucks to hear, yea not every one has a spot for a G6 card I imagine



Robschina said:


> Thanks...What size power bank should I get and would I just leave it plugged into the outlet like a regular power brick?



Modi 3 has USB power in, I can't say a power brick is a bad idea... kinda unnecessary imo. I've got a Furman conditioner but even that's a bit much, for your first DAC just plug into your wall. It'll be fine

And yes use the power supply that comes with the DAC & Amp, mixing and matching is NEVER a good idea

I'm kinda curious to hear the D50, though at that price point you can get an EL Dac II. Given that RCA in is the cleanest why not splurge for something like that, still if you need/want the extra features of D50 go for it! 

I quite like the EL Dac actually,


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 1, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> It's a one sided thread with no capacity to have a conversation about anything other than the soundblasterX G6 as a solution to everything.


Now come on, that isn't true. What is true is that if it doesn't  somecome with form of vss implementation, I personally don't really care, and can get away with anything as long as it's decent. Modi 3 being my personal example. I'll be doing a short write up of the Schiit Fulla and HEL soon too.

The reason I don't stress about DACs is that I personally can't hear enough of a difference between them to commit to plugging uber expensive DACs over bargain ones like the Modi 3. A DAC's job is to convert from digital to analog. That to me means that we SHOULDN'T be able to hear much differences unless you're personally coloring the process. We can talk about extra soundstage and dimensionality, whatever, fine, but general sound should be very similar if not basically indistinguishable. As for my own...
experiences with various DACs, changes have been miniscule enough to be confident that I'd never pass most A/B testing.

For ME, as long as the process isn't totally botched, I'm ok with literally any dac, whether it's $10 or $10,000. I used to use a cheap Fiio D3 spdif dac that was like $25 and worked as well as I needed it to back then.

That being said, I did prefer the ODAC to the original Modi, if only because the original Modi sounded harsh. I think the Modi 3 is excellent enough where I don't need anything more on that front. At this point, the only improvements I'd like are more connectivity. I put more importance on amps than DACs, as a headphone being supplied with enough power for all it's headroom will make more of a difference, than the dac conversion. IMHO. You're free to disagree, doesn't matter to me.

So if you want dac recommendations from ME, personally, I'm the worst person to ask. A headphone is 97% the most important aspect of sound for ME. Dac and amps as long as they aren't worthless can literally be anything halfway decent.

As for the G6 recommendation, it's simple. The connectivity is there, the dac is very good and even measures very well in some forums that  are anal about that stuff, and the amp is quite powerful for its size. It's a bargain. So unless you're looking for something in particular, is the easiest recommendation we could give. The even better option for my gaming community would be the Creative X7. It's literally all I'd ever need, and I'm sad I sold mine.

The only reason I sold it and went with a Schiit stack was because this community here thinks we need particular 'audiophile' gear to be taken seriously. That was my concession. I would've been fine with just the X7 instead, which I stuck with for years.

No one would take any of my reviews seriously if for example I had an HD800 and reviewed it off a Creative product. Let's be real. The snobbery is real. They'd be like "OH NO, YOU NEED A REFERENCE $2K DAC AND AMP TO TRULY, TRULY KNOW WHAT THE HD800 IS."

Those kind of people can jump off a cliff.

Edit: to add, when people ask for amp/dac recommendations, 99% of the time, the only answers they're gonna get are whatever people currently have or owned. People love to justify their own purchases to others. It's just human nature. At the very least when I recommend you something, it'll be about what you NEED or want. Want vss with all the inputs, and ability to send vss to your own gear? Get a G6 or X7, literally the only two that can do that. Want some audiophile dac/amp that is just stereo? Get literally any flavor of the month gear on Headfi, Reddit, etc. They're probably gonna be good enough. It's kinda hard to get a bad product nowadays. Especially in the amp/dac dac segment where it's apples to apples most of the time.

Wanna know my fave sounding outdated gear? Amp: Schiit Vali. The original. It was ringy, had some bad hum, and soundstage was constricted, but damn if it didn't sound so damn sweet. Have I owned better? Obviously, but I still think it's the best sound injected to a headphone at the time.

Dac? That's harder, since they all more or less sound the same to me. Maybe the ODAC. If only because it just sounded as expected next to the original Modi which I didn't like the signature of.

I don't own any of these things anymore.


----------



## gibby

Has anyone compared to the Monolith Liquid Platinum?


----------



## Delmetrice

Robschina said:


> Thanks...What size power bank should I get and would I just leave it plugged into the outlet like a regular power brick?



https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00B88ENAG?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

I've got your exact setup as a third stack, and I love it. The D50s is exceptional, and I never thought I would use BT, but I was wrong.


----------



## ronfifer

Madlust E, thank you. Do you remember gaming on your X7 connected in bluetooth mode to your PC/console? Did it employ the low latency codec (aptx-LL) or did you experience any issues with bluetooth? Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 3, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> Madlust E, thank you. Do you remember gaming on your X7 connected in bluetooth mode to your PC/console? Did it employ the low latency codec (aptx-LL) or did you experience any issues with bluetooth? Thanks.


I don't remember what the Bluetooth was for but you couldn't connect a headphone to it. I think it was either a receiver, or only for microphones. I'm not sure.


----------



## ronfifer

Yes i know i said connected in BT mode to your console/pc. Thanks.


----------



## Yh173088

Are most of u guys using the XLR or RCA INPUTS on the back ?


----------



## Shane D

Yh173088 said:


> Are most of u guys using the XLR or RCA INPUTS on the back ?



I am using the RCA's. My DAC only has one XLR out and I have another amp that I use in balanced mode.

Shane D


----------



## HanselPA

Yh173088 said:


> Are most of u guys using the XLR or RCA INPUTS on the back ?



RCA.


----------



## Makiah S

XLRs


----------



## alexanderD

Hello,

My SP200 just arrived and I like it except for the wonky volume knob. Does anyone know how to replace it? Can't seam to get it off.

It sounds very similar to the balanced output of my Questyle CMA400i, I also have it hooked up to its RCA output. Haven't tried the XLR output as I'm currently using those for some powered speakers. When putting the Questyle on fixed pre-out (or max volume in variable pre-out), I noticed that the SP200 is a little bit more detailed overall. The 58X is indeed a great pairing, also considering the prices of the two. What's really great is that the 6.3mm jack has the same output power as the XLR out without sounding worse. Haven't tried other headphones yet, sadly my fancier ones are at my brothers for him to try. 

I think I'll use it as a portable powerhouse together with a small dac.


----------



## escalibur

Comparing SP200 to iPhone 6S, Topping DX7 Pro and SMSL SU-8


----------



## Shane D (Dec 4, 2019)

escalibur said:


> Comparing SP200 to iPhone 6S, Topping DX7 Pro and SMSL SU-8




I am not downloading the files, but it would be interesting to see how many people get it right. I have had doubts about my system in the past. But then my DAP runs out of juice and I will plug in the charging cable. Then I have to do just DAP to headphone and the sound is lesser. Although I wonder how I would do in blind testing when the comparisons are: my DAP (ZX300) balanced out and with the EQ tweaked compared to DAP to DAC to Amp and maybe even a Loki in a chain. It would be complicated. I would have to be blind folded and the set-ups would have to be volume matched. Could you imagine doing this and getting 8 out of 10 wrong consistantly? A) It would be SO embarassing and B) you would realize that all those pieces you bought are just jewelry and you might as well sell all your amps and DAC's and start collecting figurines.

Going further afield, I wonder if anybody could tell the difference in a blind, volume matched test between the 789, 887, 888 and the Atom?

Shane D


----------



## MadMike

Yh173088 said:


> Are most of u guys using the XLR or RCA INPUTS on the back ?



XLR inputs.

I just received mine yesterday. I am replacing a Nuforce HA-200, which has developed a buzzing sound that is louder at the extreme ends of the volume range but audible all the time, whether connected to the DAC or not. Still sounds that same when playing music, though the buzz can be heard during quiet passages. I use a Teac UD-301 DAC. SP200 definitely sounds clearer and is more dynamic than the HA-200, though I have not compared the two properly. Dead silent even at full volume on low gain- didn't try high gain yet. One thing about the SP200- POWER! Can't go past 8:30 on volume pot with my Focal Elear using 3.5mm jack and XLR interconnects. I suppose I can switch from "fixed" to "variable" output on the UD-301 if I want to use more volume from the SP200 (and reduce the output from the dac). I have never used IEM's on a desktop amp before but I imagine using the variable out from the dac would allow me to use an IEM with the SP200, though none of my IEM require much amplification.


----------



## Roderick

alexanderD said:


> My SP200 just arrived and I like it except for the wonky volume knob. Does anyone know how to replace it? Can't seam to get it off.



It's indeed a bad quality pot. I wish they had had spent $5 on a better volume pot instead of that stupid tilted enclosure. 

Other than that I have no complaints. I have no hard to drive headphones on hand but hd800 does get really loud at 10 o clock. Impressive.


----------



## Yh173088

MadMike said:


> XLR inputs.
> 
> I just received mine yesterday. I am replacing a Nuforce HA-200, which has developed a buzzing sound that is louder at the extreme ends of the volume range but audible all the time, whether connected to the DAC or not. Still sounds that same when playing music, though the buzz can be heard during quiet passages. I use a Teac UD-301 DAC. SP200 definitely sounds clearer and is more dynamic than the HA-200, though I have not compared the two properly. Dead silent even at full volume on low gain- didn't try high gain yet. One thing about the SP200- POWER! Can't go past 8:30 on volume pot with my Focal Elear using 3.5mm jack and XLR interconnects. I suppose I can switch from "fixed" to "variable" output on the UD-301 if I want to use more volume from the SP200 (and reduce the output from the dac). I have never used IEM's on a desktop amp before but I imagine using the variable out from the dac would allow me to use an IEM with the SP200, though none of my IEM require much amplification.





MadMike said:


> XLR inputs.
> 
> I just received mine yesterday. I am replacing a Nuforce HA-200, which has developed a buzzing sound that is louder at the extreme ends of the volume range but audible all the time, whether connected to the DAC or not. Still sounds that same when playing music, though the buzz can be heard during quiet passages. I use a Teac UD-301 DAC. SP200 definitely sounds clearer and is more dynamic than the HA-200, though I have not compared the two properly. Dead silent even at full volume on low gain- didn't try high gain yet. One thing about the SP200- POWER! Can't go past 8:30 on volume pot with my Focal Elear using 3.5mm jack and XLR interconnects. I suppose I can switch from "fixed" to "variable" output on the UD-301 if I want to use more volume from the SP200 (and reduce the output from the dac). I have never used IEM's on a desktop amp before but I imagine using the variable out from the dac would allow me to use an IEM with the SP200, though none of my IEM require much amplification.



I had been using Schiit Jotunheim w multi bit as my desktop DAC/amp , and am currently using it as my DAC to the SP200 . I can’t go pass 9 on the volume wheel for most headphones . Aeon flow’s are able to Reach 11-12 depending on the song as well as Tin P1 . Which is surprising .


----------



## BrainFood (Dec 7, 2019)

Realised that my SP200's potentiometer doesn't change volume from 3 o'clock to 5 o'clock, so wondering whether to return it.  Otherwise, the amp works fine with no detectable channel imbalance and sounds great.


----------



## 340519

Loving the amp, but yes the volume pot is not the best.


----------



## chillihead

Had to upgrade the volume knob to something more beefy. Knurled heavy aluminum!


----------



## Shane D

I am using this amp today with my uber cheapies, the Fidelio X2HR's.

Sounds surprisingly good!

Shane D


----------



## 340519

I'm absolutely loving this amp! It sounds amazing with the benchmark dac and the audeze lcd xc. I'm very happy you all recommended this amp. Thanks fellas.


----------



## 340519

chillihead said:


> Had to upgrade the volume knob to something more beefy. Knurled heavy aluminum!


Do you have a link to where you bought it? How do you remove the existing knob? Thanks.


----------



## chillihead

eBay. Black 0.24" Dia Aluminum Rotary Control Potentiometer Knob 20mm x 16mm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/173032504107

Also available in Red or Blue anodized.

The volume knob simply pulls off. The new one slides on and uses a hex screw to tighten it.


----------



## 340519

chillihead said:


> eBay. Black 0.24" Dia Aluminum Rotary Control Potentiometer Knob 20mm x 16mm
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/173032504107
> 
> ...


I just bought one. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## chillihead

No problem.


----------



## Riversalt

chillihead said:


> No problem.


Was there a picture of the original button inside it?


----------



## 340519

Silly question: what type of usb input is on the sp200? Is it a usb b or m bus? Thanks.


----------



## Roderick

Neither. It is an amplifier without dac and is not usb powered.


----------



## 340519

Roderick said:


> Neither. It is an amplifier without dac and is not usb powered.


Ooops lol. Geeesh meant the benchmark dac. My bad lol. There's my first error for the day.


----------



## 340519

I believe it to be a b bus to end the story.


----------



## BubbaJay

I'm glad I don't have to deal with the volume nob anymore because I have it set to where I use the volume on my Topping D50s.  I can adjust it a half a dB at a time which is so much better than having to mess with that crappy one on the amp.  I bet they end up changing it in the future on an updated version.


----------



## 340519

I just bought a second sp200 I'm so impressed.


----------



## MadMike

BubbaJay said:


> I'm glad I don't have to deal with the volume nob anymore because I have it set to where I use the volume on my Topping D50s.  I can adjust it a half a dB at a time which is so much better than having to mess with that crappy one on the amp.  I bet they end up changing it in the future on an updated version.


Same here - I use my Teac UD-301 to adjust the volume.


----------



## Delmetrice (Dec 10, 2019)

MadMike said:


> Same here - I use my Teac UD-301 to adjust the volume.



Don't you want your source and DAC volume to be at its max and adjust on the amp end?

Edit: I run full optical, so the answer to this question may vary.


----------



## Pete Gardner

Thanks chillihead,
Have ordered knob.
Looking forward to sp200 to arrive.


----------



## Pete Gardner

Has anyone used sp200 with zmf headphones?
In particular the Aeolus


----------



## MadMike (Dec 10, 2019)

Delmetrice said:


> Don't you want your source and DAC volume to be at its max and adjust on the amp end?
> 
> Edit: I run full optical, so the answer to this question may vary.


I am using the XLR output from my dac, which puts out 4 Vrms - lots of signal to play with. If I run it at max, the amp would go no higher than 8:30 on the volume control due to the sensitivity of my Elear hp and the power of this amp.


----------



## chaotic_angel

helo users, is it true that there is no differences found between BAL & SE headphone output in terms of power and sound?


----------



## tim0chan

Pete Gardner said:


> Has anyone used sp200 with zmf headphones?
> In particular the Aeolus


Me me xD. What else do you want to know? It's enough power and without distortion


----------



## BrainFood

chaotic_angel said:


> helo users, is it true that there is no differences found between BAL & SE headphone output in terms of power and sound?


Power, no difference. Small improvement in 'crosstalk' via XLR output


----------



## Pete Gardner

Thanks Tim0chan,
I was checking that they are a good match with sp200.
I currently have Audeze XCs and have been considering selling and getting Aeolus.


----------



## Riversalt

chillihead said:


> Had to upgrade the volume knob to something more beefy. Knurled heavy aluminum!






That adds more weight, more solidity to the knob, no?


----------



## chillihead

Yes, I personally think it's what it needs to polish off an already nice product.


----------



## PaganDL

Just my 2 cents,

Very engaging, dynamic staging with a nice warmth to the clarity which is interesting.
Obviously SMSL cares about good sound & I wholeheartedly approve.

Hope everyone has a great day !


----------



## tim0chan

[


Pete Gardner said:


> Thanks Tim0chan,
> I was checking that they are a good match with sp200.
> I currently have Audeze XCs and have been considering selling and getting Aeolus.


Do keep in mind you will be moving from a closed system to an open one. But yes, if you like the aeolus already, this is a very capable amplifier for the job


----------



## inseconds99

Looking for a dac to pair with the sp200 and HD800 S, any recommendations? Also worth the upgrade to the drop thx 789?


----------



## Shane D

inseconds99 said:


> Looking for a dac to pair with the sp200 and HD800 S, any recommendations? Also worth the upgrade to the drop thx 789?



The SMSL SU-8 is a very good DAC at a pretty good price. MassDrop has been pushing it at $170.00.

I wouldn't look at the 789 as an upgrade unless you need the extra power via balanced.

Shane D


----------



## Delmetrice

inseconds99 said:


> Looking for a dac to pair with the sp200 and HD800 S, any recommendations? Also worth the upgrade to the drop thx 789?



Wait until the Topping D50s comes to Drop and snag it. Excellent DAC. I've run several balanced DACs to the SP200, and I find no benefit to it, so I decided to clean up the desk and get a good DAC with a feature set I wanted.


----------



## PaganDL

inseconds99 said:


> Looking for a dac to pair with the sp200 and HD800 S, any recommendations? Also worth the upgrade to the drop thx 789?




@inseconds99,

Just my 2 cents.

SP200 is slightly warmer in tone & the staging is wider with lower noise floor than the 789.

Regarding a DAC, depends on your budget & what you're looking for?

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## inseconds99

Shane D said:


> The SMSL SU-8 is a very good DAC at a pretty good price. MassDrop has been pushing it at $170.00.
> 
> I wouldn't look at the 789 as an upgrade unless you need the extra power via balanced.
> 
> Shane D



Not sure if the HD800S will benefit from extra lower. I’m ordering all the equipment today so if the 789 is needed to drive them I’ll invest in it.



PaganDL said:


> @inseconds99,
> 
> Just my 2 cents.
> 
> ...



looking for a clean dac that measures well but doesn’t cause harshness from the hd800s.


----------



## HanselPA (Dec 14, 2019)

inseconds99 said:


> Not sure if the HD800S will benefit from extra lower. I’m ordering all the equipment today so if the 789 is needed to drive them I’ll invest in it.
> 
> 
> 
> looking for a clean dac that measures well but doesn’t cause harshness from the hd800s.



You don’t need extra power ( from 789) to drive the HD800. I own the HD800 and HD650 and the SP200 drive them without any effort, in fact, I use the SP200 in lower gain and never pass the 12 or 1 o’clock with those cans.


----------



## tim0chan (Dec 14, 2019)

inseconds99 said:


> Not sure if the HD800S will benefit from extra lower. I’m ordering all the equipment today so if the 789 is needed to drive them I’ll invest in it.
> 
> 
> looking for a clean dac that measures well but doesn’t cause harshness from the hd800s.


Edit: Oops xD (format error)
If so I'd go with the topping d50s. It's really good for the price that Drop has it for


----------



## inseconds99

@tim0chan you’re message did not get posted only the quote


----------



## inseconds99

tim0chan said:


> Edit: Oops xD (format error)
> If so I'd go with the topping d50s. It's really good for the price that Drop has it for



unfortunately that dac seems to be out of stock on drop, do you know what the price was?


----------



## tim0chan

inseconds99 said:


> unfortunately that dac seems to be out of stock on drop, do you know what the price was?


Should be around the same price as the su-8 but in my opinion it is the better product


----------



## HanselPA

inseconds99 said:


> Not sure if the HD800S will benefit from extra lower. I’m ordering all the equipment today so if the 789 is needed to drive them I’ll invest in it.
> You don’t need extra power ( from 789) to drive the HD800. I own the HD800 and HD600 and the SP200 drive them without any effort, in fact
> 
> 
> looking for a clean dac that measures well but doesn’t cause harshness from the hd800s.


----------



## Delmetrice (Dec 14, 2019)

tim0chan said:


> Should be around the same price as the su-8 but in my opinion it is the better product



Wait until next drop at $185 and price match with Apos for insta-satisfaction. I love those guys.

Edit: the SMSL SU-8 is also going to be replaced with a new version, so it's running about $10-$15 cheaper when it drops. Not worth it in my opinion, the D50s is too good.


----------



## 340519

HanselPA said:


> You don’t need extra power ( from 789) to drive the HD800. I own the HD800 and HD650 and the SP200 drive them without any effort, in fact, I use the SP200 in lower gain and never pass the 12 or 1 o’clock with those cans.


True. I have the 800, the S, and the 650 and the smsl never goes past 11 for me. A very solid amp. Like I said, I bought a second unit it's that good.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Is the SP200 better than the M/D 789? I can buy the SMSL on ebay inside the EU, if I have to buy from M/D the 789 could cost a lot to import.


----------



## Delmetrice (Dec 14, 2019)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Is the SP200 better than the M/D 789? I can buy the SMSL on ebay inside the EU, if I have to buy from M/D the 789 could cost a lot to import.


I think "better" is obviously a subjective term, but I did sell my 789 and will keep the SP200. So...you know.

Will you be able to tell a difference? Nah. Unless you simply like the looks are are willing to pay a significant price difference, you've got better hearing than me to find a reason to pay more.


----------



## Shane D

It also depends on your current gear and future plans. For me the SMSL SU-8 is perfect. I run XLR to my LCX and my SP200. I then run RCA to my Schiit Vali 2 and Liquid Spark. A couple of splitters and I use my DAC to feed four different amps, with no cable changes required. Future proofed for me.

Think about what you have and what you might get in the next 6, 12 or 18 months.

Shane D


----------



## escalibur

gimmeheadroom said:


> Is the SP200 better than the M/D 789? I can buy the SMSL on ebay inside the EU, if I have to buy from M/D the 789 could cost a lot to import.


Yes it is. It's cheaper, smaller, more powerful and much much easier to buy.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

So this amp is SE out? What's the point of a 4 pin XLR connector? You have to buy new SE cables with an XLR plug


----------



## Jon L

Eh? SMSL has both 4-pin XLR and 1/4" headphone jacks.  No need to buy "new SE cables with an XLR plug." 
I'm glad it has 4-pin XLR jack because many headphones and/or upgrade cables come with 4-pin XLR male connectors, which IME are more sturdy.  For example, I just plug in my Abyss Phi TC into the SMSL via it's XLR jack, which allows me to skip the Abyss' XLR-1/4" adapter cable


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Jon L said:


> Eh? SMSL has both 4-pin XLR and 1/4" headphone jacks.  No need to buy "new SE cables with an XLR plug."
> I'm glad it has 4-pin XLR jack because many headphones and/or upgrade cables come with 4-pin XLR male connectors, which IME are more sturdy.  For example, I just plug in my Abyss Phi TC into the SMSL via it's XLR jack, which allows me to skip the Abyss' XLR-1/4" adapter cable



LOL, you're right. I don't know what pic I was looking at, either I need to stop drinking or somebody airbrushed the SE jack off the front panel


----------



## Shane D

gimmeheadroom said:


> So this amp is SE out? What's the point of a 4 pin XLR connector? You have to buy new SE cables with an XLR plug



It is whatever you want to use. It is not "truly" balanced. I use XLR in for for convenience and either output, depending what cable I am using at the time. There is no added benefit to using XLR out. No "cleaner line", no extra power.

With my LCX, Mr. Cavalli has stated publicly that the amp was designed to be used via the XLR and the SE was a secondary thought. 
Having said that I have been comparing the LCX SE out to the Liquid Spark. The LCX is doing better.

Shane D


----------



## ronfifer

Shane, have you compared the LCX XLR out to sp200 XLR out?


----------



## Shane D (Dec 15, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> Shane, have you compared the LCX XLR out to sp200 XLR out?



I have not. The last couple of months have been focused on trying out new toys and then deciding if they are keepers, or not. I have been on a Major binge this year. Luckily, it has all been entry level/mid level Hi-Fi.

Your question is interesting, but they are VERY different amps.

Shane D


----------



## gimmeheadroom

What do you think of those Koss Electros, @Shane D ? Still liking them?


----------



## Shane D

gimmeheadroom said:


> What do you think of those Koss Electros, @Shane D ? Still liking them?



I haven't been able to give them the time they deserve. I used them for one day before I plugged in the SP200. They are Very different and I really like them. A great alternative when you want to hear something different.

Shane D


----------



## Pete Gardner

Mine arrived today from Shenzenaudio.  Very quick! Will be interesting to A/B against my Parasound Halo Integrated.


----------



## 340519

The second unit just showed up.


----------



## Shane D

dmdm said:


> The second unit just showed up.



Any differences at all?

Shane D


----------



## 340519




----------



## 340519

Shane D said:


> Any differences at all?
> 
> Shane D


Ho do you mean?


----------



## Shane D

Appearance? Knob? Inputs? Outputs? Any differences at all?

Shane D


----------



## 340519

Shane D said:


> Appearance? Knob? Inputs? Outputs? Any differences at all?
> 
> Shane D


No they are identical as far as I can tell.


----------



## tim0chan

dmdm said:


> No they are identical as far as I can tell.


So same crappy volume knob xD. Is there any channel imbalance?


----------



## 340519

tim0chan said:


> So same crappy volume knob xD. Is there any channel imbalance?


No, both are dead center.


----------



## 340519

tim0chan said:


> So same crappy volume knob xD. Is there any channel imbalance?


I ordered two aluminum replacement knobs.


----------



## bcaulf17 (Dec 17, 2019)

I’m very interested in this amp after reading about it just recently. Has anyone compared it to the Monoprice THX 887 which also came out recently? That one is priced at $400 and looks nearly identical to the Drop THX 789. I do like the more compact size of the SMSL, where the 887 probably wouldn’t fit where I want to put it. I’m a little worried from those who are claiming these may be a touch bright.


----------



## escalibur

bcaulf17 said:


> Has anyone compared it to the Monoprice THX 887 which also came out recently?



Yes. 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sl-sp200-thx-amp-measurement-comparison.9952/


----------



## 340519

escalibur said:


> Yes.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sl-sp200-thx-amp-measurement-comparison.9952/


Well, that is extremely positive for the smsl.


----------



## cobrabucket

Welp, I just pulled the trigger on one of these from Apos. Those guys are the best! Stoked!!!


----------



## acekc

dmdm said:


> I ordered two aluminum replacement knobs.



Does this mean you found knobs that are nicer than stock, or are you talking about exact replacements? If the former can you link to them or provide more info? Thanks.


----------



## 340519

acekc said:


> Does this mean you found knobs that are nicer than stock, or are you talking about exact replacements? If the former can you link to them or provide more info? Thanks.


Nicer than stock.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173032504107


----------



## fpantalone

Received mine today, along with my Topping D30 DAC ... I gotta say, my 600 ohm DT880 have never sounded like this before !! So out with the Asgard 2 and Modi 2 Uber. Not sure if burn in will improve things at all, but if not I'm plenty happy already. Will be interesting to try the Verum and my others. This is a whole new level !!


----------



## acekc

dmdm said:


> Nicer than stock.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173032504107



I like the look of those, please post some pics when you receive them and get them installed.


----------



## acekc

fpantalone said:


> Received mine today, along with my Topping D30 DAC ... I gotta say, my 600 ohm DT880 have never sounded like this before !! So out with the Asgard 2 and Modi 2 Uber. Not sure if burn in will improve things at all, but if not I'm plenty happy already. Will be interesting to try the Verum and my others. This is a whole new level !!



Sounds like we both came from a similar place, I swapped in the SP200 and SU-8 for a Jotunheim with add-in DAC. I'm really pleased as well, especially for the price.


----------



## fpantalone

acekc said:


> Sounds like we both came from a similar place, I swapped in the SP200 and SU-8 for a Jotunheim with add-in DAC. I'm really pleased as well, especially for the price.



There is 'nothing' about the sound that is not improved. Jayzus !!! All I could ask for is that it had preamp out ...


----------



## 340519

acekc said:


> I like the look of those, please post some pics when you receive them and get them installed.


Sure thing.


----------



## 340519

fpantalone said:


> Received mine today, along with my Topping D30 DAC ... I gotta say, my 600 ohm DT880 have never sounded like this before !! So out with the Asgard 2 and Modi 2 Uber. Not sure if burn in will improve things at all, but if not I'm plenty happy already. Will be interesting to try the Verum and my others. This is a whole new level !!


Awesome!


----------



## pollyjingjing

https://hifi-express.com/collections/s-m-s-l-vmv/products/smsl-sp200-thx-aaa-888-headphone-amp

It is best choice to order. Two business days after I ordered.


----------



## cobrabucket

pollyjingjing said:


> https://hifi-express.com/collections/s-m-s-l-vmv/products/smsl-sp200-thx-aaa-888-headphone-amp
> 
> It is best choice to order. Two business days after I ordered.


FYI: My A/V [Avast] warned me about malware when I clicked that link..


----------



## 340519

My two units only took four business days from China to Canada ordering through amazon.


----------



## Cat Music

pollyjingjing said:


> https://hifi-express.com/collections/s-m-s-l-vmv/products/smsl-sp200-thx-aaa-888-headphone-amp
> 
> It is best choice to order. Two business days after I ordered.


It has virus, don't open it


----------



## cobrabucket

Do you think this will be a good pairing with an LCD2 pre fazor? Thanks


----------



## pollyjingjing

Cat Music said:


> It has virus, don't open it



I don't have this tip when I open the link. It has several warehouses to select to send from.


----------



## Jon L

OT.  I need the thin stock power cord that ships with SMSL SP200 amp.  PM me if you have one to mail me to CA for some cash.  TIA


----------



## BobMonkhouse

It's an incredibly clean and detailed sounding amp. It opens up dark and narrow-stage signature headphones. Although, it reveals the flaws of bad recordings. I love that all switches are on the front.
My only complain is the low gain is not low enough. Even with my HD6XX I can't turn the volume up pass 11 o'clock.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Jon L said:


> OT.  I need the thin stock power cord that ships with SMSL SP200 amp.  PM me if you have one to mail me to CA for some cash.  TIA



Does that mean a standard power cord won't fit?


----------



## MadMike

Standard power cord should work just fine.


----------



## Davidibiza

Hello to everybody. New member here, I just ordered a sp200. I bought a Sabaj D3 amp/dac a couple of years ago and I was thinking to use it as a Dac for the sp200 until I decide which Dac to buy (balanced, unbalanced.....). As I am a noob I do not know if the fact that the D3 is also an amp will affect the sound quality that I will get from the sp200 as I must connect them via RCA's. I will use the amp with my dt990, 1more triple driver over ear and with a he4xx that should arrive soon. 

Thanks in advance

David.


----------



## MadMike

Davidibiza said:


> Hello to everybody. New member here, I just ordered a sp200. I bought a Sabaj D3 amp/dac a couple of years ago and I was thinking to use it as a Dac for the sp200 until I decide which Dac to buy (balanced, unbalanced.....). As I am a noob I do not know if the fact that the D3 is also an amp will affect the sound quality that I will get from the sp200 as I must connect them via RCA's. I will use the amp with my dt990, 1more triple driver over ear and with a he4xx that should arrive soon.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> David.


The fact that the D3 is also an amp should have no bearing on using the D3 to feed a signal to the SP200- it should work just fine.


----------



## Davidibiza

MadMike said:


> The fact that the D3 is also an amp should have no bearing on using the D3 to feed a signal to the SP200- it should work just fine.


Thank you!


----------



## Nostoi (Jan 3, 2020)

Just got the SP200 to try out of interest. This thing seems absurdly loud when connected to my RME-ADI 2 Dac. I.e., it's picking up all kinds of electro-magnetic frequencies both in my room and from my laptop. My RME alone is dead silent. I am connecting with RCA from the SMSL to my RME and then via USB to my laptop. I also tried both the Audioquest jitter USB thingy and the iSilencer dongle, both don't resolve this noise. Is this a known issue?

EDIT: it continues to make a noise even with the RME off but the SP200 on. Seems like some kind of dodgy build issue relating to RCA connection. I've tried to plug in as tightly as possible, but no difference. If any RME/SP200 users can tell me if they had this issue, I'd be grateful. Thanks.


----------



## tim0chan

Nostoi said:


> Just got the SP200 to try out of interest. This thing seems absurdly loud when connected to my RME-ADI 2 Dac. I.e., it's picking up all kinds of electro-magnetic frequencies both in my room and from my laptop. My RME alone is dead silent. I am connecting with RCA from the SMSL to my RME and then via USB to my laptop. I also tried both the Audioquest jitter USB thingy and the iSilencer dongle, both don't resolve this noise. Is this a known issue?
> 
> EDIT: it continues to make a noise even with the RME off but the SP200 on. Seems like some kind of dodgy build issue relating to RCA connection. I've tried to plug in as tightly as possible, but no difference. If any RME/SP200 users can tell me if they had this issue, I'd be grateful. Thanks.


Seems like it's a ground loop issue. Try connecting with xlr


----------



## Nostoi

tim0chan said:


> Seems like it's a ground loop issue. Try connecting with xlr


Thanks, will give it a bash.


----------



## Nostoi

Edit - I was able to resolve the RCA issue through using my WM1A as a source rather than the USB on my laptop. The WM1A is dead silent with the SP200. So, there's obviously something between the RCA and the laptop's USB that is causing this issue. 

First impressions of SP200 after an initial A/B with the Sony, it's ok. I don't think it adds anything to the RME in terms of detail and resolution. in fact I'd say it falls somewhere quite behind the RME. I will continue to see how it sounds.


----------



## cobrabucket

Nostoi said:


> Edit - I was able to resolve the RCA issue through using my WM1A as a source rather than the USB on my laptop. The WM1A is dead silent with the SP200. So, there's obviously something between the RCA and the laptop's USB that is causing this issue.
> 
> First impressions of SP200 after an initial A/B with the Sony, it's ok. I don't think it adds anything to the RME in terms of detail and resolution. in fact I'd say it falls somewhere quite behind the RME. I will continue to see how it sounds.


I find the RME's amp is very clean, but the SP200 has power, clarity and dynamics that are superior to the RME, IMO.


----------



## Cat Music

I found this comment on Amazon, can someone explain if this problem exists?


----------



## Nostoi

cobrabucket said:


> I find the RME's amp is very clean, but the SP200 has power, clarity and dynamics that are superior to the RME, IMO.


Hm, I hear it rather differently. Switching between the RME and SP200 underscores how punchy and dynamic the RME amp is. Again, I want to give time for the SP200 to open up, but right now it sounds too mid-focused and lacking the dynamic clarity of the RME. I can see it as a solid upgrade from a lower model Chinese DAC but maybe pairing with the RME is expendable.


----------



## MadMike

Cat Music said:


> I found this comment on Amazon, can someone explain if this problem exists?


See this ASR thread for some insight:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rements-of-smsl-sp200-thx-hp-amp.9242/page-32


----------



## pollyjingjing

Davidibiza said:


> Hello to everybody. New member here, I just ordered a sp200. I bought a Sabaj D3 amp/dac a couple of years ago and I was thinking to use it as a Dac for the sp200 until I decide which Dac to buy (balanced, unbalanced.....). As I am a noob I do not know if the fact that the D3 is also an amp will affect the sound quality that I will get from the sp200 as I must connect them via RCA's. I will use the amp with my dt990, 1more triple driver over ear and with a he4xx that should arrive soon.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> David.



But the D3 also as the DAC to AMP via the RCA.


----------



## Davidibiza

pollyjingjing said:


> But the D3 also as the DAC to AMP via the RCA.


I didn't know if this would double amp...


----------



## pollyjingjing

Davidibiza said:


> I didn't know if this would double amp...


Yes, it can only as a dac.Thanks


----------



## muths66

Is sp200 suitable for iem?
Saw somewhere people say it pickup hiss/floor noise.


----------



## HanselPA

muths66 said:


> Is sp200 suitable for iem?
> Saw somewhere people say it pickup hiss/floor noise.



I do use mine with IEM some times, but using my IFI Ear Buddy attenuator because even in low gain I won’t be able to pass 8 o’clock on the volumen. With the attenuator I can move to 11 o’clock .
 No hiss/floor noise even without the iFi buddy.


----------



## muths66

HanselPA said:


> I do use mine with IEM some times, but using my IFI Ear Buddy attenuator because even in low gain I won’t be able to pass 8 o’clock on the volumen. With the attenuator I can move to 11 o’clock .
> No hiss/floor noise even without the iFi buddy.


Good coz i quite interested coz on aliexpress one of the comment has it.


----------



## tim0chan

muths66 said:


> Good coz i quite interested coz on aliexpress one of the comment has it.


That would be me lol. I think only the most sensitive of iems like maybe the andromeda won't work due to channel imbalance. If your line out is 2v and below there shouldn't be an issue


----------



## rsantist

After reading all the posts, I can see this small amp is really awesome. 
I just need a little more help please.  I'm trying to improve my equipment, specially the amps.
Now I use a Burson HA160 almost for everthing and a portable Mojo.
Will the SP200 be a really improve with my actual headphones?
My HP are : Hifiman HE560, Sennheiser hd650, Fidelio X2 and for the last 2020 I'd like to purchase  the HD800s?

I am also considering Schiiit Asgard 3 ( same price ) and the Topping DX7 pro , I know it's not the same price range, but includes the real good DAC.
Thank you


----------



## jsmiller58

rsantist said:


> After reading all the posts, I can see this small amp is really awesome.
> I just need a little more help please.  I'm trying to improve my equipment, specially the amps.
> Now I use a Burson HA160 almost for everthing and a portable Mojo.
> Will the SP200 be a really improve with my actual headphones?
> ...


DX7 Pro has high output impedance.  You may want to look at the less expensive Schiit Heresy.


----------



## BobMonkhouse (Jan 5, 2020)

It is awesome and not because of the affordable price. It's transparent and won't change the sound signature of any headphones. I don't hear any harshness nor lack of details from it. I also find it having a "honest" FR.

All that said, only you can tell if it pairs well with your particular headphones. If you're used to the sound of your HA160 or Mojo with a pair of headphones, you may not like them with the SP200 that much. Unfortunately, you need to compare them yourself to decide.


----------



## BobMonkhouse

I've read reviews that Schiit Heresy and JDS Atom sound indistinguishable. I have the Atom. When I volume match it to SP200, I can't tell them apart. So, I consider it will be the same with Heresy. Heresy and SP200 will have more than enough power for all your headphones. I haven't heard the Heresy, but the balanced output and more convenient ergonomics of the SP200 should be beneficial.


----------



## Shane D

This amp has been a learning experience for me. Honestly, I did not care for it much when I first got it. It has more power than I will ever use and it is very accurate. I am not usually a fan of flat and neutral, but this amp has been winning me over.

A few days ago I got a set of new (demo's) headphones, the Fostex TH-610. I figured I would try the Fostex on this amp because it would reveal their true sound. I am Very impressed with these headphones. Never have I heard drumming so prominent. Really out front on rock, but even with jazz, Florence and the Machine and Steely Dan. Definitely a new sound for me and very enjoyable.

The reason I am writing this is that I was looking forward to trying these out on my Liquid Spark. I did, for about one minute. With the Spark, the fullness was missing as was the bass. I figured maybe it was just a power difference since I hadn't volume matched the amps and so I cranked up the volume. It got much louder, but could not compete on sound quality. I get there is a large difference in price, but I have been super impressed with the LS against all my other amps, including this one. Until now. Weird.

Also, I recently bought a used pair of HD58X's and have been very impressed with their value (Yes, I have been bargain hunting the last few months). After several days of playing them in various amps, I put my 610's on and it was a night and day difference. I have never gone from an open back to a closed back and been blown away. The clarity, the bass, the full sound was Amazing! The next day I came back down to earth and realized the 610's are Not the clearest headphones ever made.

The last few days really have been eye opening though. And yes, I Really do like my SP200 right now.

Shane D


----------



## rsantist

BobMonkhouse said:


> I've read reviews that Schiit Heresy and JDS Atom sound indistinguishable. I have the Atom. When I volume match it to SP200, I can't tell them apart. So, I consider it will be the same with Heresy. Heresy and SP200 will have more than enough power for all your headphones. I haven't heard the Heresy, but the balanced output and more convenient ergonomics of the SP200 should be beneficial.



I didn't know anything about Heresy until you both told here. It's seems to be a good option according to its price. Half price SP200. Maybe better than asgard ...


----------



## Mightygrey

SP200 review up live on headfonia.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks for sharing it


----------



## Cat Music

can anyone compare the SP200 vs Rupert Neve Designs RNHP in sound quality?


----------



## Makiah S

I've done so in my review

rhnp has some weight/body

sp200 does not


----------



## Nostoi

Cat Music said:


> can anyone compare the SP200 vs Rupert Neve Designs RNHP in sound quality?


Also very interested to hear this. I bought the SP200 thinking it would be a forensically detailed but neutral amp. To my ears, it was the exact opposite - almost veiled and definitely not needed if one already owns an RME ADI dac. I returned, concluding that it was over hyped and overrated.


----------



## Nostoi

Mshenay said:


> I've done so in my review
> 
> rhnp has some weight/body
> 
> sp200 does not


With all due respect, that doesn't mean much - what do the words "body" and "weight" mean here?


----------



## Jon L (Jan 13, 2020)

Mightygrey said:


> SP200 review up live on headfonia.



I absolutely agree with this statement in that review:

"The SP200 is an absolutely transparent look into your music, your source material, and of absolute importance for Headfonia readers – your headphones themselves."

I would also add SP200 clearly reveals the sound signature of power cord, interconnect, headphone cable used.  I have tried several expensive power cords laying around, but if one prefers well-lit, sparkling, lively signature, do try the thin stock power cord that ships with SP200


----------



## Makiah S

Nostoi said:


> With all due respect, that doesn't mean much - what do the words "body" and "weight" mean here?



A slight excess of audible harmonics


----------



## Shane D (Jan 14, 2020)

Mshenay said:


> I've done so in my review
> 
> rhnp has some weight/body
> 
> sp200 does not



I agreed with your statement until I tried the Fostex TH-610's. What a combination! Really surprised me. But a nice revelation.

Now I am curious how my incoming HD600 will sound. I don't think it will be nearly as much fun.

Shane D


----------



## nishan99

I know this amp is SE but I wonder if there is a volume difference between its SE and balanced inputs?


----------



## tim0chan

nishan99 said:


> I know this amp is SE but I wonder if there is a volume difference between its SE and balanced inputs?


Nope


----------



## nishan99

tim0chan said:


> Nope



Does that mean the SE input get preamplified to match the balanced input like the Liquid Platinum amp or the balanced inputs are scaled down to match the SE inputs because the amp itself is SE topology?


----------



## tim0chan

nishan99 said:


> Does that mean the SE input get preamplified to match the balanced input like the Liquid Platinum amp or the balanced inputs are scaled down to match the SE inputs because the amp itself is SE topology?


Sorry, I misread your an xD. Yes there will be a difference if you choose to use a DAC with fixed outputs, usually with the RCA at 2ishV, and xlr being double at 4ishV. So yes double the voltage should yield a 3db increase (double the volume)


----------



## Makiah S

Shane D said:


> I agreed with your statement until I tried the Fostex TH-610's. What a combination! Really surprised me. But a nice revelation.
> 
> Now I am curious how my incoming HD600 will sound. I don't think it will be nearly as much fun.
> 
> Shane D



I actually spend more time with HD 600 on SP 200 than I thought I would

To be honest open back headphones with rolled off bass like HD 600 and my K501 are nice on the RNHP how ever anything with extended bass sounds too thick and slow!!!!!! So while I think RNHP is an amazing product, it's maybe not the best value given it's limits and lack of "transparency," that said it's got a slight tube-esque timbre without the tubey imaging/sound stage so if anything it might compliment SP200 but wouldn't be a good replacement or upgrade to


----------



## Shane D

My HD600's sounded great out of my 888. I went from 11 straight days of the Fostex to these. Definitely less bass, but I adjusted to the sound very quickly. The HD600 is very clear and crisp. It has no extra noise as I noticed with the Fostex sometimes. Since this amp is winning me over, I will really have to revisit the Grado's with it.

I just bought an audio switcher from Nobsound and can't wait to be able to change amps and headphones instantly. It will be very illuminating for me. And a lot of fun.

Shane D


----------



## BrainFood (Jan 15, 2020)

Hifiman Sansara's are sounding mighty fine on the SP200!  I'm at the tightest setting on their metal headband though, which is 'just' about ok on my small head. I'm not sure whether to keep or return them, as they could conceivably lose more clamp with use, making them too loose. Seems a good match with this amp, anyhow, and amazing value in combo at current prices.



Mshenay said:


> I actually spend more time with HD 600 on SP 200 than I thought I would



Just received new HD600's yesterday, as it happens. I had a quick listen out of the SP200 and first thing that drew my attention was that bass was more prominent than the HD600 reviews would suggest, which was a pleasant surprise!

That's one negative of the SP200.  It appears good value but ends up costing a fortune


----------



## Adamora (Jan 15, 2020)

I got this as a quick replacement after my iFi Micro DSD BL. I'm currently using it with an Audient ID22 interface, which has a stellar, yet analytical DAC.

Coming from the iFi, the SP200 is an depressingly neutral amp, to the point that I find it...boring (keep in mind this is coupled with the HD660s).

But music isn't why I'm here.

This amp is a Gamers wet DREAM! I can hear everything with unbelievable clarity! it almost feels like I'm cheating with how well I'm picking up the faintest rustle in Escape From Tarkov, something I could never do previously! Even Rainbow Six Siege benefits from it's godlike separation and clarity. If you're into competitive games in anyway, you owe it to yourself to try this amp. Sounds stopped blending in with other noises, and are easily discernible, allowing you to excel at kicking ass .

_Personal note: I'm 28, with low to moderate tinnitus. _


----------



## Cat Music

Adamora said:


> I got this as a quick replacement after my iFi Micro DSD BL. I'm currently using it with an Audient ID22 interface, which has a stellar, yet analytical DAC.
> 
> Coming from the iFi, the SP200 is an depressingly neutral amp, to the point that I find it...boring (keep in mind this is coupled with the HD660s).
> 
> ...


I'm curious to know if you liked your ifi Micro BL more than the sp200 + Audient ID22 in sound quality


----------



## Adamora

Cat Music said:


> I'm curious to know if you liked your ifi Micro BL more than the sp200 + Audient ID22 in sound quality



The iFi made my entire music library come alive, the non muddy bass boost is godlike! Everything sounds amazing on that unit, which is why I'm going to send it in for repair soon, this way I can change amps based on my needs (gaming/music).

But it all depends on your taste, I love forward mids, emphasized bass, and sparkling treble. The iFi Delivers, the SP does not. I'd probably love the SP200 if I paired it with a Fostex TH-900 though, due to the already colored sound on those cans =).


----------



## tim0chan

Adamora said:


> The iFi made my entire music library come alive, the non muddy bass boost is godlike! Everything sounds amazing on that unit, which is why I'm going to send it in for repair soon, this way I can change amps based on my needs (gaming/music).
> 
> But it all depends on your taste, I love forward mids, emphasized bass, and sparkling treble. The iFi Delivers, the SP does not. I'd probably love the SP200 if I paired it with a Fostex TH-900 though, due to the already colored sound on those cans =).


Schiit Loki and some patience should do the trick for you


----------



## Shane D

Adamora said:


> The iFi made my entire music library come alive, the non muddy bass boost is godlike! Everything sounds amazing on that unit, which is why I'm going to send it in for repair soon, this way I can change amps based on my needs (gaming/music).
> 
> But it all depends on your taste, I love forward mids, emphasized bass, and sparkling treble. The iFi Delivers, the SP does not. I'd probably love the SP200 if I paired it with a Fostex TH-900 though, due to the already colored sound on those cans =).



The TH-610's are a great combo with this amp.

Nobody does bass boost better than iFi.

Shane D


----------



## Adamora

Shane D said:


> The TH-610's are a great combo with this amp.
> 
> Nobody does bass boost better than iFi.
> 
> Shane D



Truly, I'd recommend you try it at any nearby store that sells it if possible. You forget about the small details and enjoy the musicality that it brings =).

Edit: Also, glad to hear the Fostex series sound good with this amp =D


----------



## Shane D

Adamora said:


> Truly, I'd recommend you try it at any nearby store that sells it if possible. You forget about the small details and enjoy the musicality that it brings =).
> 
> Edit: Also, glad to hear the Fostex series sound good with this amp =D



I have owned iFi before. I ended up selling it.

Shane D


----------



## Adamora

Shane D said:


> I have owned iFi before. I ended up selling it.
> 
> Shane D



Alrighty, and how do you find the THX SP200 compared to it? I'd like to hear about the other side of the coin as well =).


----------



## Shane D

Adamora said:


> Alrighty, and how do you find the THX SP200 compared to it? I'd like to hear about the other side of the coin as well =).



It has been a few years since I sold my iFi Micro iCAN SE. I loved the bass boost and found the 3D feature interesting. It had Tons of power but I never really loved the sound. I had bought it to go with HD6XX's that I had bought. The combo never worked for me and I sold both.

Then about a year ago I started getting into amps in a bigger way. I even tried to buy that amp again, but it was out if production. And their new models are too expensive for me.

Shane D


----------



## gr8soundz

For me, adding an iFi iTube2 between DAC and the SP200 has made a huge difference. Easy to add different levels of tube flavor (or almost none) plus iFi's superb 3D Bass. Made a night/day difference when pairing my T1.2 with the SP200.


----------



## Adamora

gr8soundz said:


> For me, adding an iFi iTube2 between DAC and the SP200 has made a huge difference. Easy to add different levels of tube flavor (or almost none) plus iFi's superb 3D Bass. Made a night/day difference when pairing my T1.2 with the SP200.



Bloody hell, that would be a dream come true for me...fudge, time to save.


----------



## Shane D

gr8soundz said:


> For me, adding an iFi iTube2 between DAC and the SP200 has made a huge difference. Easy to add different levels of tube flavor (or almost none) plus iFi's superb 3D Bass. Made a night/day difference when pairing my T1.2 with the SP200.



My Schiit Loki can do amazing things for adjusting sound signatures. My choice is several different amps AND an EQ.


----------



## gr8soundz (Jan 16, 2020)

Shane D said:


> My Schiit Loki can do amazing things for adjusting sound signatures. My choice is several different amps AND an EQ.



I disconnected my Loki after deciding the iTube2's bass adjust was enough for me; I rarely used the the other dials on the Loki anyway. Plus I wanted to keep the desktop chain as short as possible and the iTube2 imo is a trifecta as preamp, tube buffer, and (bass) EQ. Tube+ setting also thickens the sound a bit which imo works well with the SP200.


----------



## Shane D

gr8soundz said:


> I disconnected my Loki after deciding the iTube2's bass adjust was enough for me; I rarely used the the other dials on the Loki anyway. Plus I wanted to keep the desktop chain as short as possible and the iTube2 imo is a trifecta as preamp, tube buffer, and (bass) EQ.



I find that with the Loki, on most 'phones I add some bass and midrange. With some headphones I also peel back the treble.

The Koss Electrostatics are the only system where I have to crank all four bands at once. This makes the ESP/E95X an all day headphone.

Shane D


----------



## HanselPA

I have both at this moment, the iFi Micro and the SP200, the first one is to move around the house, depending what I’m doing or where I’m working with my laptop and the SP200 is on my desk connected to Schiit Bifrost MB and Loki in the way. 
I love both of them, is true the iFi can make alive your music, but is also true that SP200 can make alive some of my headphones , like the HD6xx, it sound much better on the AAA than in my iFi. HD800, in the other hand, sound better on the iFi, but on the THX using the eq( loki) is also impressive!!
Elear sound better on the THX.


----------



## Adamora

HanselPA said:


> I have both at this moment, the iFi Micro and the SP200, the first one is to move around the house, depending what I’m doing or where I’m working with my laptop and the SP200 is on my desk connected to Schiit Bifrost MB and Loki in the way.
> I love both of them, is true the iFi can make alive your music, but is also true that SP200 can make alive some of my headphones , like the HD6xx, it sound much better on the AAA than in my iFi. HD800, in the other hand, sound better on the iFi, but on the THX using the eq( loki) is also impressive!!
> Elear sound better on the THX.



Have you tried using the iFi as a pre amp to the SP200?


----------



## Delmetrice

> _Personal note: I'm 28, with low to moderate tinnitus. _



Let me say how much I appreciate this info as I have a certain amount of hearing loss and tinnitus in both ears, and it greatly affects my perception of certain equipment. These little notes can be really helpful depending on the review.

Also, the "boring" description is shared pretty widely with all THX-based amps, and I'd agree that if you like some coloring, THX amps probably aren't the best option. A good EQ can help greatly, but I wouldn't trade the neutrality for anything else at this point.


----------



## HanselPA

Adamora said:


> Have you tried using the iFi as a pre amp to the SP200?



No I haven’t. Bifrost MB is an excellent dac and help( just a bit ) with the neutrality of the SP200. 
As a stand alone DAC, Bifrost is superior than the DAC part on the iFi Micro.


----------



## escalibur

Didnt know that the volume knob is really this bad...


----------



## ronfifer

I am using an AKG K702 with the SP200 amp. Generally speaking how do I know which Gain mode to choose on the amp, high or low?


----------



## tim0chan

ronfifer said:


> I am using an AKG K702 with the SP200 amp. Generally speaking how do I know which Gain mode to choose on the amp, high or low?


Use your ears lol. Just use whatever sounds good to you. No one else can make the final decision for you, because you are the one listening to your music in the end. 
For me, high gain has a slight increase in speed and dynamics but becomes less smooth, low gain is the opposite. So I use the different gain settings with different music. Ultimately the gain used shouldn't really matter when driving the headphones as the sp200 has enough power for 99% of headphones on the market


----------



## HanselPA

ronfifer said:


> I am using an AKG K702 with the SP200 amp. Generally speaking how do I know which Gain mode to choose on the amp, high or low?



Use them both and decide for yourself . Usually I use low gain because I like to have room on the dial to increase the volume.


----------



## MadMike

ronfifer said:


> I am using an AKG K702 with the SP200 amp. Generally speaking how do I know which Gain mode to choose on the amp, high or low?


If the volume is loud enough for you on low, use low. None of my headphones require me to use high gain- Elear, 400i, HD600 and a few others.


----------



## Joaqu2n

MadMike said:


> I am using the XLR output from my dac, which puts out 4 Vrms - lots of signal to play with. If I run it at max, the amp would go no higher than 8:30 on the volume control due to the sensitivity of my Elear hp and the power of this amp.



Hi! How good is this amp with the Elear Focal at low gain?


----------



## MadMike

Joaqu2n said:


> Hi! How good is this amp with the Elear Focal at low gain?


The SP200 easily drive the Elears on low gain, even through the RCA connection and they sound terrific! Details galore and great dynamics. I couldn't recommend this combination more. Note: I have swapped the original pads with the Elex pads from Drop.


----------



## Joaqu2n

MadMike said:


> The SP200 easily drive the Elears on low gain, even through the RCA connection and they sound terrific! Details galore and great dynamics. I couldn't recommend this combination more. Note: I have swapped the original pads with the Elex pads from Drop.



Thanks! I have read that perhaps it is an amplifier too powerful for sensitive headphones and when the volumen control is less than 9 o'clock an imbalance may appear. Does this happen with the Elear in low gain?


----------



## florence

HanselPA said:


> No I haven’t. Bifrost MB is an excellent dac and help( just a bit ) with the neutrality of the SP200.
> As a stand alone DAC, Bifrost is superior than the DAC part on the iFi Micro.


Please elaborate, what is better on Bifrost multibit than ifi micro idsd bl as a DAC standalone? Thanks.


----------



## MadMike

Joaqu2n said:


> Thanks! I have read that perhaps it is an amplifier too powerful for sensitive headphones and when the volumen control is less than 9 o'clock an imbalance may appear. Does this happen with the Elear in low gain?


I use the TEAC UD-301 DAC which has a volume control- I do not have the volume from the DAC maxxed out- more like 50% with the SP200 at around 10:00. I adjust volume on the DAC more often than I adjust the volume knob on the SP200. Initally, I had the DAC feed a fixed signal to the amp and I couldn't go much more than 8:30, however I did not experience any perceptible channel imbalance.


----------



## Joaqu2n

MadMike said:


> I use the TEAC UD-301 DAC which has a volume control- I do not have the volume from the DAC maxxed out- more like 50% with the SP200 at around 10:00. I adjust volume on the DAC more often than I adjust the volume knob on the SP200. Initally, I had the DAC feed a fixed signal to the amp and I couldn't go much more than 8:30, however I did not experience any perceptible channel imbalance.



Too much power for the Elear, then.

Thank you!


----------



## chaotic_angel (Jan 23, 2020)

-Edited-


----------



## MadMike

Joaqu2n said:


> Too much power for the Elear, then.
> 
> Thank you!


I would not outright dismiss the SP200 with the Elear just because you cannot increase the volume too much from minimum when feeding it 2Vms signal- as I mentioned adjusting the signal from the DAC is a good alternative. There is no loss of quality. Also, adjusting the volume in Windows 10 or, say Foobar2000, also works. Of course, this assumes you have a DAC with volume control and/or are using the amp in a computer application.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

I contacted SMSL via email but had no reply yet: does anybody know what the amp maximum input level via XLR is? I'm trying to determine if there's a problem using a high output level (+19dBu) DAC with it, anybody tried something similar? Thanks!


----------



## cobrabucket

gonzalo1004es said:


> I contacted SMSL via email but had no reply yet: does anybody know what the amp maximum input level via XLR is? I'm trying to determine if there's a problem using a high output level (+19dBu) DAC with it, anybody tried something similar? Thanks!


I use an ADI-2 pro DAC that is usually set to +19dBu, sometimes +24dBu  without issue


----------



## gonzalo1004es

cobrabucket said:


> I use an ADI-2 pro DAC that is usually set to +19dBu, sometimes +24dBu  without issue


Thanks, that’s great to hear!


----------



## AudioSonic7

Hello everyone.

I have a question in regards to the front outputs in the smsl SP200.

I know that there are no preamps or outs on the back but Amir in his article for the review of this product had remarked that we could use the front outputs as a pass-through or sort of like a pre-amp.
If I do this with the 4-pin XLR or SE audio output, will this in any way degrade or cause distortion to the signal coming from the SP200 to an external AMP (which drives some stereo monitors)?

Or would you recommend to use a splitter from the DAC output and feed both the SP200 and the external amp?  (I was avoiding this as I see that splitters will cause distortion to happen).

thank you in advance!


----------



## Shane D

AudioSonic7 said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I have a question in regards to the front outputs in the smsl SP200.
> 
> ...



Splitters will not lead to distortion. I split my RCA and XLR cables, feeding multiple amps and I notice no difference in sound.

Shane D


----------



## Uebelkraehe (Jan 22, 2020)

I'm just having a little listening session with the SP200, a Sabaj D5 and the Quad ERA-1 and it's really unbelieveable what kind of sound quality is possible now at (at least somewhat) affordable prices. This thing is so crisp, neutral and powerful, it's almost mind blowing at this price.


----------



## AudioSonic7

Shane D said:


> Splitters will not lead to distortion. I split my RCA and XLR cables, feeding multiple amps and I notice no difference in sound.
> 
> Shane D



Hey Shane.  Do you know a good splitter to use?  I was searching on Amazon and there is very little choices there.  I see there was a Radio Shack one that had some good ratings but several comments did say it lead to distortion, thus why I said it may cause distortion.

Which audio splitter did you end up using?

thanks in advance.


----------



## Shane D

I just bought them from Amazon. I did it with the RCA's first. When that seemed to work great, I went for the XLR's. There was not a lot of choice, but I have always had great luck with Amazon purchases.

My RCA splits are Amazon Basics.
I bought XLR's by Tosino this month.

I wish there was more choice in lengths. The are cumbersome in very short length. Say 12-18 inches. I think 2ft would be an ideal length.

As of today, I have three balanced amps. At least one will be leaving in the next month or two. But it won't be the SP200.

Shane D


----------



## AudioSonic7

Shane D said:


> I just bought them from Amazon. I did it with the RCA's first. When that seemed to work great, I went for the XLR's. There was not a lot of choice, but I have always had great luck with Amazon purchases.
> 
> My RCA splits are Amazon Basics.
> I bought XLR's by Tosino this month.
> ...



haha yeah I did the same.  bought most of my cables from amazon.  Well will test it out this weekend and hopefully all is good.  Thanks.


----------



## Shane D (Jan 21, 2020)

AudioSonic7 said:


> haha yeah I did the same.  bought most of my cables from amazon.  Well will test it out this weekend and hopefully all is good.  Thanks.



They will work fine. The only hassle is keeping all of the components relatively close together, due to the short cables. I have three shelves and eight components so I have to keep the "split" components close together, along with the DAC.

Enjoy!

Shane D


----------



## BobMonkhouse

Or you can use something like Little Bear MC3 from Amazon. I find it very convenient.


----------



## AudioSonic7 (Jan 21, 2020)

hmm no one commented on why I shouldn't use the xlr output in the front also to connect to an external amp?  If I use the SE audio jack, and xlr 4-pin is free, can't I use this to connect to an external amp without needing a splitter?  What say you and if that's not a good idea, why?

Was thinking of using something like this?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FQ861C6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

thanks.


----------



## Shane D

BobMonkhouse said:


> Or you can use something like Little Bear MC3 from Amazon. I find it very convenient.



Funny you mention that. I just bought a Little Bear audio switcher (MC104 Pro). I wanted to be able to compare four amps with the flick of a switch. It kinds of works, but I have to make some adjustments. They all sounded the same to me. I will have to do volume matching and try different headphones.
Of course it won't work with XLR's, but that's fine with me.

Shane D


----------



## cobrabucket (Jan 21, 2020)

I second the Little Bear MC3. I have 2 of them. Quite good.
https://www.amazon.com/ONE-Little-Bear-Balanced-Converter/dp/B00OY0TBMA

For single-ended, I like the MC1022.
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Audio-Switcher-Selector-Splitter/dp/B07CKK7J2L

FWIW, I got my MC3 off of fleabay for about $50. Looks like the only one there now is going for ~$85. Unfortunately, the Amazon price seems the best deal atm.


----------



## BobMonkhouse

I considered MC1022 for my RCA needs but didn't want a volume control to avoid potential channel imbalance, so got two RCA switchers from the ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stereo-Los...Selector-Switcher-RCA-6-In-2-Out/293278139255

I'm very pleased with them.


----------



## chaotic_angel

hello, looking at Oluv's Video makes me doubt with the purchase. Any user can confirm that their unit is fine?


----------



## tim0chan

chaotic_angel said:


> hello, looking at Oluv's Video makes me doubt with the purchase. Any user can confirm that their unit is fine?


Mine is fine


----------



## chaotic_angel

tim0chan said:


> Mine is fine



so it is a random error I guess...


----------



## tim0chan

chaotic_angel said:


> so it is a random error I guess...


Sorry, I am abit lazy to watch the whole video, but what exactly does he say is wrong with his unit?


----------



## chaotic_angel

tim0chan said:


> Sorry, I am abit lazy to watch the whole video, but what exactly does he say is wrong with his unit?



The vol has error even after the 2nd replacement...there is imbalance to the right channel, between 0 to almost 10 o'clock...


----------



## tim0chan

chaotic_angel said:


> The vol has error even after the 2nd replacement...there is imbalance to the right channel, between 0 to almost 10 o'clock...


No issue for me, this is compared to other amps with similar power output like Asgard 3, magni 3, liquid spark. Tbh I usually take his "reviews" with a huge grain of salt as I believe that anyone delusional enough to trust "sound demos" off YouTube may need some corroborating be fore I trust them.


----------



## Uebelkraehe

Mine is fine, too. And it makes such a beautiful pairing with the Quad ERA-1, it's like a electron microscope which nevertheless doesn't neglect musicality. The Focal Clears don't pair as well for some reason, they seem to lose a bit of their soundstage, facileness and balance compared to the pairing with the rHead.


----------



## Davidibiza

chaotic_angel said:


> hello, looking at Oluv's Video makes me doubt with the purchase. Any user can confirm that their unit is fine?


Mine is fine as well, or at least I haven't been able to hear any imbalance...


----------



## Delmetrice

I would think a channel imbalance at a range that large is more likely due to something else besides the amp, particularly if it is experienced on two of the same units. It took a good amp to show me I had a problem with my ears instead with the equipment.


----------



## malazz123

i tried with the topping D70 , smooth sound , i feels that the music forcing me to calm down , even with a trance/breakbeat music lol ( tried with XLRs @low gain )
drive my he400i/660s/ananda and good old hd800 with no problem at all  ( the hd800 @High Gain ) 

and yeah FOR ME , this is a good chi-fi amps with THX , period 

just my 2 cents


----------



## karma37 (Jan 27, 2020)

Hi
I have just received the sp200 I don't have a dedicated desktop amp but I have a fiio m11 dap. Any benefit to getting a DAC or will I hear no difference if I just use m11?
I'll be mostly using with full sized headohones.


----------



## tim0chan

karma37 said:


> Hi
> I have just received the sp200 I don't have a dedicated desktop amp but I have a fiio m11 dap. Any benefit to getting a DAC or will I hear no difference if I just use m11?
> I'll be mostly using with full sized headohones.


M11 is plenty fine, though it would be good to get a 2.5 to XLR or 4.4 to XLR cable to connect the 2 devices together


----------



## BubbaJay

karma37 said:


> Hi
> I have just received the sp200 I don't have a dedicated desktop amp but I have a fiio m11 dap. Any benefit to getting a DAC or will I hear no difference if I just use m11?
> I'll be mostly using with full sized headohones.



I use my M11 with the SP200 but I have the D50s Dac in the middle.  A good Dac will sound quite a bit better than just using the M11 as your source.  There are quite a few good Dacs in the $100 to $300 price range and if you have more to spend then go for it.


----------



## Delmetrice

I also recommend the Topping D50s almost exclusively for the price on Drop and the addition of Bluetooth if you're into that. Exceptional DAC.


----------



## BobMonkhouse

Delmetrice said:


> I also recommend the Topping D50s almost exclusively for the price on Drop and the addition of Bluetooth if you're into that. Exceptional DAC.



Just curious, what DACs have you compared to D50s?


----------



## Shane D

I use the SMSL SU-8 and it's a great match with the SMSL SP200. Also nice having the balanced outputs to feed the SP200.

It's on Drop regularly for $170.00.

Shane D


----------



## Delmetrice (Jan 29, 2020)

BobMonkhouse said:


> Just curious, what DACs have you compared to D50s?



I've used the Schiit Modi, Bifrost, Aune X1S, Topping D70, and Geshelli Enog 2 Pro. Admittedly I've only used the Bifrost, Enog, and D70 with the SP200. I haven't found any benefit to running any DAC balanced to any amp versus single ended, and I use the D70 primarily for tube amps/Enog for powered speakers. The D50s stays with the SP200.


----------



## stuck limo

chaotic_angel said:


> hello, looking at Oluv's Video makes me doubt with the purchase. Any user can confirm that their unit is fine?



Mine's fine. Use it all the time.


----------



## chaotic_angel

will ESS dac chip will make SP200 more sterile, can any one confirm please?
I understand that DAC chip implementation will matter most.


----------



## tim0chan

chaotic_angel said:


> will ESS dac chip will make SP200 more sterile, can any one confirm please?
> I understand that DAC chip implementation will matter most.


Generally that would be the case, although I have heard exceptions


----------



## BobMonkhouse

Delmetrice said:


> I've used the Schiit Modi, Bifrost, Aune X1S, Topping D70, and Geshelli Enog 2 Pro. Admittedly I've only used the Bifrost, Enog, and D70 with the SP200. I haven't found any benefit to running any DAC balanced to any amp versus single ended, and I use the D70 primarily for tube amps/Enog for powered speakers. The D50s stays with the SP200.



Good to know, thanks! I have the Modi but I use my SP200 primarily with Topping D70 and DX3 Pro. I can't distinguish the line-out output of DX3 Pro from D70, so it deserves consideration for its price. It has a very convenient mode that you can control the volume of the DAC output which SP200 needs sometimes.


----------



## Shane D

Delmetrice said:


> I've used the Schiit Modi, Bifrost, Aune X1S, Topping D70, and Geshelli Enog 2 Pro. Admittedly I've only used the Bifrost, Enog, and D70 with the SP200. I haven't found any benefit to running any DAC balanced to any amp versus single ended, and I use the D70 primarily for tube amps/Enog for powered speakers. The D50s stays with the SP200.



I like the balanced for two reasons:
1) Why buy a balanced amp, if you're not going to use balanced inputs (I know that it is not "purely balanced").
2) I like having connection options. I run a split cable from the SE and balanced ports so that I can feed four amps. I love variety and don't want to always be switching cables.

Shane D


----------



## Delmetrice (Jan 29, 2020)

Oh I don't think you shouldn't use it if you have it. I personally wouldn't buy a DAC based only on its connection options since it doesn't matter, and I've already got one of these. Works either as a 4x2 or 2x4 and is just sexy on the desk. Build and component quality is outstanding.

https://www.amazon.com/TC-7240-Router-Switcher-Selector-Splitter/dp/B00KDQXITG?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_13


----------



## Delmetrice

chaotic_angel said:


> will ESS dac chip will make SP200 more sterile, can any one confirm please?
> I understand that DAC chip implementation will matter most.



I think this is fairly subjective. If there's a difference, I'm too uneducated to hear it assuming the DACs are well implemented. There are some chips that seem to have a flavor, but it's usually due to implementation, not the chip itself.


----------



## Shane D

Delmetrice said:


> Oh I don't think you shouldn't use it if you have it. I personally wouldn't buy a DAC based only on its connection options since it doesn't matter, and I've already got one of these. Works either as a 4x2 or 2x4 and is just sexy on the desk. Build and component quality is outstanding.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/TC-7240-Router-Switcher-Selector-Splitter/dp/B00KDQXITG?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_13



If you're going to buy a balanced amp, it only makes sense to buy a balanced DAC. I really like the SU-8 and the options it has. I was very pleased with paying $212.00, with free shipping. 
At $170.00 on Drop, it is a screaming deal.

If you are not going to use balanced, you are wasting your money on the SP200. You can get the same performance from the JDS Labs Atom at $99.00.

The SP200 would only make sense if you have Really hard to drive headphones. And even then you can probably get a cheaper SE amp.

Shane D


----------



## tim0chan

Shane D said:


> If you're going to buy a balanced amp, it only makes sense to buy a balanced DAC. I really like the SU-8 and the options it has. I was very pleased with paying $212.00, with free shipping.
> At $170.00 on Drop, it is a screaming deal.
> 
> If you are not going to use balanced, you are wasting your money on the SP200. You can get the same performance from the JDS Labs Atom at $99.00.
> ...


Not necessary, the sp200 doesn't have a fully balanced topology and there has been documentation that balanced inputs vs un-balanced inputs being almost a draw with RCA winning out in the end unless the rig is in a horribly noisy environment with long cable runs. As for balanced output, it's just there for convenience so it definitely is not a must for a full balanced rig out of the sp200. Bottom line being, just go with whatever floats your boat.

Personally I'm going with the JDS labs EL DAC mark 2 as I love the aesthetics and honestly will be hard pressed to hear differences btw dacs past the $500 range due to streaming spotify being the only source of my music. The sp200 is amazing out of a chord qutest playing lossless files though.
Edited for spelling


----------



## Shane D

tim0chan said:


> Not necessary, the sp200 doesn't have a fully balanced topology and there has been documentation that balanced inputs vs un-balanced inputs being almost a draw with RCA winning out in the end unless the rig is in a horribly noisy environment with long cable runs. As for balanced output, it's just there for convenience so it definitely is not a must for a full balanced rig out of the sp200. Bottom line being, just go with whatever floats your boat.
> 
> Personally I'm going with the JDS labs EL DAC mark 2 as I love the aesthetics and honestly will be hard pressed to hear differences btw dacs past the $500 range due to streaming spotify being the only source of my music. The sp200 is amazing out of a chord qutest playing lossless files though.
> Edited for spelling



As I mentioned earlier, it is not truly balanced. And the JDS Labs Atom measures just as well as this amp. I do enjoy the convenience of balanced connections for variety and most balanced amps put out more power with the balanced option.
I have a couple of balanced amps and a couple of SE amps so the connections make my life easier.

Shane D


----------



## Delmetrice

Just let people get what they want to get. It's good the SU-8 works for you, but there are better measuring DACs out there and plenty of well-performing options that some may like for different reasons. SMSL is going to put to put out a new version of the SU-8 with new chip anyways.


----------



## Shane D

Delmetrice said:


> Just let people get what they want to get. It's good the SU-8 works for you, but there are better measuring DACs out there and plenty of well-performing options that some may like for different reasons. SMSL is going to put to put out a new version of the SU-8 with new chip anyways.



It has already been "replaced" by the SU-8S. I am not TELLING anybody to buy anything. It is a nice DAC with lots of features at a pretty good price.

Shane D


----------



## 340519

The sp200 is great even next to my bryston bha1.  The 888 is awesome.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

do you guys know if the 888 is worth the investment as a pairing for an RME ADI-2 DAC or is it not worth it?
does it have more power output with enough power room when compared to the RME ?


----------



## galacticsoap (Feb 7, 2020)

I cannot quite believe how good this amp is. I'm using it along with D70 DAC in my office running a pair of Abyss TC's and it's incredible. I'm running it in low gain mode and on some quieter recordings, the volume pot sits at 2. The D70 is at max volume i.e. 0db (haven't quite figured out how to get it to remain in preamp mode having selected it in the menu).

Does anyone know what level the SMSL200 starts to clip?


----------



## BobMonkhouse

I use my SP200 with D70 most of the time. Sometimes, the SP200 low gain is still too powerful for me, so I keep the D70 volume adjustable.

As per the D70 manual, you need to hold the SEL button pressed while plugging the power cable in. Then the DAC goes in a settings mode where you can switch the line-out (Lo) mode to non-adjustable.

This is a great combo but frankly I can't distinguish the D70 sound quality output from my Topping DX3 Pro which is a good thing.


----------



## Cat Music

BobMonkhouse said:


> I use my SP200 with D70 most of the time. Sometimes, the SP200 low gain is still too powerful for me, so I keep the D70 volume adjustable.
> 
> As per the D70 manual, you need to hold the SEL button pressed while plugging the power cable in. Then the DAC goes in a settings mode where you can switch the line-out (Lo) mode to non-adjustable.
> 
> This is a great combo but frankly I can't distinguish the D70 sound quality output from my Topping DX3 Pro which is a good thing.


Do you really find no differences in sound quality? I thought to acquire the D90 lol


----------



## BobMonkhouse

Well, I haven't heard the D90 yet. I've read good reviews stating it's perfectly transparent. And it could be more of this and more of that but I believe the saturation point of what this human can perceive as a sound difference has been reached. Nowadays, a good DAC is a good DAC, and these two are on that level. I prefer the D70 because of the balanced output for convenience but I would be perfectly happy with the DX3 Pro. Its amp module is not that satisfying but the DAC's line-out is just all I'd need for my "Mid-Fi" state of mind.

In the context of this thread, the amps make the bigger difference for me and I use my SP200 as a benchmark reference amp to compare the sound between sources and other components.

I'm sure I'll spend more money for amps and DACs though keeping in mind curiosity kills cats but satisfaction brings them back... for awhile. Otherwise, I wouldn't be posting here.


----------



## BrainFood (Feb 8, 2020)

Tsukuyomi said:


> do you guys know if the 888 is worth the investment as a pairing for an RME ADI-2 DAC or is it not worth it?
> does it have more power output with enough power room when compared to the RME ?



HI. Right now I cannot really give concrete comparison of ADI-2 amp and ADI-2/SP200 because of issues with my source (dual pc set up), which might be influencing the sound. However, what I have noted so far is: I prefer the Sundara through the ADI-2 headamp (high gain), as mids sound fuller. Through the sp200 it's a little lean overall. The partnership of the ADI-2 amp and hifiman is indeed really pleasing! As regards the DT1990 pro (A Pads), stay tuned, but possibly a little clearer and more open through the SP200 .

Power output is more with 888 but not by that much compared to the RME's high gain...I haven't got the specs to hand though.


----------



## pankar0

Hello to everyone, 
I m new to headphones and I want a little help.
I bought a month ago the sennheiser hd 660s and I m looking for an amplifier. 
(300€ Budget)
I read many reviews for amps and I think I want to buy the sp200.
My source is the Pioneer N70ae.
I plan to connect the sp200 to n70 via xlr because the rca outputs of n70 feeds my main hifi system. 
My first question is about the synergy between sp200 and 660s..??
And the second is I m thinking to buy a adaptor for the stock 4.4 Pentagon sennheiser cable to 4pin xlr.. something like this

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/jack...emale-jack-44mm-gold-plated-15cm-p-13867.html

Is this ok for sound quality or should I buy a new cable 4pin xlr for my 660s..??
Any suggestion..??

Thanks for your time and sorry because my English is not so good to read it.


----------



## Spareribs

This amp looks amazing. Nice design


----------



## tim0chan

pankar0 said:


> Hello to everyone,
> I m new to headphones and I want a little help.
> I bought a month ago the sennheiser hd 660s and I m looking for an amplifier.
> (300€ Budget)
> ...


I think you should buy a shorter adapter like the one from venture electronics but this one should be fine as well


----------



## chaotic_angel

hello any one who ordered after the corona virus broke got shipped already?


----------



## Anton333

Hello. Sorry for my English... 
I bought SMSL SP200 for use with SMSL M500 and sometimes with Chord Hugo 2 (it's power enough for iems and OPPO PM-3 and PM-2, but not enough for Shure SRH1840 or AKG K701). 
Mostly I prefer to listen PM-2, but the power of M500 HP out is even less than Hugo 2 (Of course, I knew that for such money you can not expect a good HP amplifier inside M500). 
So, basically I bought M500 to hear the difference between MQA and hirez, and of course listen Tidal. 
While in one review I read about comparing different audio output MQA options with the original one (DXD). And there wasn't much difference between software MQA render or hardware MQA render (decoder).
Additionally I wanted to have in my DAC collection something not expensive with Sabre ES9038PRO inside.
HP out of M500 disappoints... And it needs good burning (all unit). Because the sound is very airy, as if the sounds lack physicality. I had a similar problem when burning iBasso DX200. All need burning!!!
In my version of SP200 (I connected it by RCA cable to M500) there was no noise (hiss) and being unbalanced only on 0-3 volume. But M500 and Hugo 2 can change the output power. So there is no problem to adjust volume. 
Also I have RME ADI-2 PRO (no FS) and I can compare the HP output of RME (HI-Power) and RME - SP200 (Low gain) (XLR cable). I'm not sure, but maybe it's the effect of the cable and the sound with SP200 (low gain) seems more natural. Other sound parameters seem similar to my ears. Maybe after XLR cable burning something will change.
But RME power is enough for Shure and AKG (especially on Hi-power). There is only one way to recommend SP200 for RME. Changing power and XLR cables you can find your sound. But I think this is not the best advice for those who buy the SP200 (so I bought a XLR cable for 50 dollars) and use good power cord (very old).
The M500 may not reveal the full potential of the DAC chip as opposed to the RME, but I like the sound of Sabre. Especially with SP200.
I also read somewhere (SP200 review)  that the power cable affects the sound of this device (although I already knew this), so I did not listen to the device with the original cable. If someone is interested, I can compare. I use old Wireworld Electra.
During burning I used old UP-OCC RCA cable and now I burning Inakustic premium XLR cable. 
And in conclusion, I'm glad I bought this device. So much energy in this little box and everything is directed only to amplify the sound in its pure form as it is at the output of the dac!


----------



## frank2908

Adding sp200 to the hugo 2, does it improve sound quality?


----------



## Mightygrey

frank2908 said:


> Adding sp200 to the hugo 2, does it improve sound quality?


It definitely improves loudness.


----------



## 340519 (Feb 11, 2020)

This is definitely end game quality. I was talking to benchmark media the other day as I just bought a dac 3 direct from them and they were shocked that there is another 888 other than their hpa4. I said this thing is amazing and I dont need their amp as I have the sp200.  And I have to say, their sanskrit 6th edition is downright incredible too.


----------



## Spareribs

For many audiophiles out there, this would probably be the amp to recommend. It’s affordable, simple and looks well designed. The type of amp you get and forget about the rest and focus on the music


----------



## 340519

Spareribs said:


> For many audiophiles out there, this would probably be the amp to recommend. It’s affordable, simple and looks well designed. The type of amp you get and forget about the rest and focus on the music


Yup I'm using it with my benchmark dac2 and audeze xc. Very nice sounding combination


----------



## 340519 (Feb 12, 2020)

Actually benchmark wanted to know about the 888 they haven't heard of so I sent them a picture of my unit.
I said it's 300 dollars and does 95 percent of what the hpa4 does. Sold.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

i find it hard to believe that benchmark dont listen to test other products from competing brands.


----------



## 340519 (Feb 12, 2020)

I talk to Rory at benchmark quite often over the past decade, and he had never heard of the smsl 888. He told me that benchmark thought their 888 was the only one on the market.


----------



## Daimonos

Has anybody spotted info whether SMSL will make a V2 out of SP200 similarly to SU-8? I would love to buy this one, but the volume knob issues are keeping me away.


----------



## 340519

Funny, the volume knob does not bother me at all. Actually, I love the look of it. I bought a replacement but I can't bring myself to switch it as the original is so nice aesthetically.


----------



## Shane D

dmdm said:


> Funny, the volume knob does not bother me at all. Actually, I love the look of it. I bought a replacement but I can't bring myself to switch it as the original is so nice aesthetically.



Same with me. I have no problem with the volume knob. Of course I am a quiet listener and never go past 12:00 in low gain with anything.


----------



## 340519

Shane D said:


> Same with me. I have no problem with the volume knob. Of course I am a quiet listener and never go past 12:00 in low gain with anything.


Same here. I really don't go over 80db.


----------



## Shane D

dmdm said:


> Same here. I really don't go over 80db.



I bought a cheap audio meter on Amazon to check on my listening levels. My music ranges from 65 to 75db's, with the odd tenth to a quarter second peaks into high 70's. I am shocked by people talking about using high gain at 1:00. Either that is one HARD to drive headphone or they are going deaf.


----------



## 340519

Shane D said:


> I bought a cheap audio meter on Amazon to check on my listening levels. My music ranges from 65 to 75db's, with the odd tenth to a quarter second peaks into high 70's. I am shocked by people talking about using high gain at 1:00. Either that is one HARD to drive headphone or they are going deaf.


I find 80db is pretty satisfying but I'm usually in the 70s.


----------



## nigel801

Anyone tried using Hugo 2 with SP200 I am thinking of getting one for my Z1R but wondering if it is worth adding SP200 to Hugo 2 will it impact the ultra micro details and bass slam of Hugo 2, Also how are you connecting Hugo 2 with SP200?


----------



## Anton333

nigel801 said:


> Anyone tried using Hugo 2 with SP200 I am thinking of getting one for my Z1R but wondering if it is worth adding SP200 to Hugo 2 will it impact the ultra micro details and bass slam of Hugo 2, Also how are you connecting Hugo 2 with SP200?


I used to think that Hugo 2 with headphones (K701, SRH1840), there was not enough dynamics, but I haven't used them for a long time. I was burning up the SP200  with K701, SRH1840. 
After I test Hugo 2 with SP200 for some days and with my headphones (K701, SRH1840, PM-2) there is no difference.
I don't have headphones that require a lot of power (300 ohms, Hifiman, Audeze). Maybe for such headphones, the Hugo 2 power will not be enough.


----------



## Suppa92

Anyone tried SP200 with Topping D90? or better compared SU-8 against D90 with SP200?


----------



## jj69

chillihead said:


> eBay. Black 0.24" Dia Aluminum Rotary Control Potentiometer Knob 20mm x 16mm
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/173032504107
> 
> ...



How hard is it to pull the original knob off? Mine is pretty tight!


----------



## tim0chan

jj69 said:


> How hard is it to pull the original knob off? Mine is pretty tight!


It's alright to add more force when removing, there's no glue


----------



## 340519

tim0chan said:


> It's alright to add more force when removing, there's no glue


I bought a couple of those knobs but I really like the original. I've come to appreciate it. It just looks way cooler than the replacement lookalike to what's on my benchmark dacs.


----------



## Anton333

What is difference between xlr and 1/4 out?


----------



## BobMonkhouse

Anton333 said:


> What is difference between xlr and 1/4 out?



The differences are the shape and the size of the plugs.


----------



## 340519

BobMonkhouse said:


> The differences are the shape and the size of the plugs.


I'm currently using kimber hero rcas, but I have bought some kimber hero xlrs today so I'll post my subjective findings.


----------



## stuck limo (Feb 19, 2020)

Shane D said:


> If you are not going to use balanced, you are wasting your money on the SP200. You can get the same performance from the JDS Labs Atom at $99.00.
> 
> The SP200 would only make sense if you have Really hard to drive headphones. And even then you can probably get a cheaper SE amp.



I own both. Their specs may be similar, but their performance/sound is completely different from each other.



Anton333 said:


> I also read somewhere (SP200 review)  that the power cable affects the sound of this device (although I already knew this), so I did not listen to the device with the original cable. If someone is interested, I can compare. I use old Wireworld Electra.
> During burning I used old UP-OCC RCA cable and now I burning Inakustic premium XLR cable.
> And in conclusion, I'm glad I bought this device. So much energy in this little box and everything is directed only to amplify the sound in its pure form as it is at the output of the dac!



I tried a different power cable with this amp (see pic). (the end result was ridiculous and hilarious, as you can see) I could not hear a difference between the stock cable and the aftermarket. However, with the aftermarket cable pictured, I COULD hear a major difference vs the stock cable on the Schiit Asgard 2.


----------



## 340519

I have to say there their is no audible difference between balanced and se SQ wise. They sound the same to me, but the xlrs look cooler.


----------



## McLambo

stuck limo said:


> I own both. Their specs may be similar, but their performance/sound is completely different from each other.


Please elaborate!


----------



## Benno1988

Using mine to run some Verite Open. Not digging too much. Don't think they are meant for each other. Powerful little unit. Can't go above about 25% on low gain before too loud....


----------



## User00

Suppa92 said:


> Anyone tried SP200 with Topping D90? or better compared SU-8 against D90 with SP200?


I own a d90 and sp200 and they pair really well. I actually enjoy my lcd x more on this system than with my old yggdrasil/Jotunheim stack.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

The amp is not balanced, the title of the thread should be changed. Sometimes an XLR jack is just an XLR jack


----------



## Cat Music

User00 said:


> I own a d90 and sp200 and they pair really well. I actually enjoy my lcd x more on this system than with my old yggdrasil/Jotunheim stack.


nice combination, do you have another DAC to compare with the D90 ?, I'm sorry I think I'm derailing the thread, maybe in the D90 thread ...


----------



## Shane D

stuck limo said:


> I own both. Their specs may be similar, but their performance/sound is completely different from each other.



While the testing results may be very similar, I can see where the sound might differ a little bit, but I am surprised at "performance/sound is completely different" . My point was that if you are not going to use the XLR inputs (and do not need the extra power), the SP200 seems like a waste.

In your case if the two are completely different amps, then my point is not valid for you.


----------



## User00

Cat Music said:


> nice combination, do you have another DAC to compare with the D90 ?, I'm sorry I think I'm derailing the thread, maybe in the D90 thread ...


Sorry those were the only 2 dedicated dacs I had at the same time.


----------



## User00

Has anyone tried dual mono blocking the 888? I'm kind of interested in buying another to try it out.


----------



## Jon L

User00 said:


> Has anyone tried dual mono blocking the 888? I'm kind of interested in buying another to try it out.



Why?  I do have two SP200's.  I bought an extra one for no reason because I like it so much, but one SP200 has more than enough power (3 watts into 32 Ohm) to man-handle my Abyss 1266 Phi TC.  Also, in order to mono-block it, I would have to make an adapter to use only one channel output from each amp and waste the other channel per amp.


----------



## SupperTime

It's this amp or any thx amps vs the Rupert Neve  RNHP. What do you guys think


----------



## Suppa92

User00 said:


> I own a d90 and sp200 and they pair really well. I actually enjoy my lcd x more on this system than with my old yggdrasil/Jotunheim stack.


Nice, Did you connect yggdrasil with the SP200? what are the sonic differences between two dacs with the SP200?


----------



## Jon L

The ebay aluminum knurled knob vs stock plastic knob.  Kind of like both...




0221202055 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## Shane D

SupperTime said:


> It's this amp or any thx amps vs the Rupert Neve  RNHP. What do you guys think



If I could go back in time, I would choose the RNHP. The SP200 is very powerful but can be a little harsh with certain headphones. The last couple of days have illustrated that point with my new Elex's, although it is amazing with my Fostex's.


----------



## Jon L

Shane D said:


> If I could go back in time, I would choose the RNHP. The SP200 is very powerful but can be a little harsh with certain headphones. The last couple of days have illustrated that point with my new Elex's, although it is amazing with my Fostex's.



For those with THX AAA amps or similarly "neutral" amps and want to make the system more forgiving for certain headphones or borderline-quality recordings, I highly recommend trying interconnects with the infamous Belden 8402 cable.  Compared to my usual audiophile pure silver, pure copper, and silver-copper hybrid cables, Belden 8402 is more forgiving in the low-treble/upper-midrange area while STILL retaining high levels of detail retrieval, while serving up more musical tone and bass warmth, which is still tight and punchy.  

https://audio-at-home.com/belden-8402-microphone-cable-interconnects-a-la-dominique


----------



## Shane D

SupperTime said:


> It's this amp or any thx amps vs the Rupert Neve  RNHP. What do you guys think



I want to reply to you again, because I did want to mention something:
In Canada, my landed cost was about $350.00 for this amp.
The selling price on new RNHP's is over $700.00, plus tax (15%), up here.

With hindsight, I think I would prefer the RNHP sonically. But when I bought the SP200, I was not considering $700.00 amps.

Just to clarify.


----------



## SupperTime

Is this or any thx amps good and dead silent with iems?


----------



## tim0chan

SupperTime said:


> Is this or any thx amps good and dead silent with iems?


Yep, but if U have alot of EMI noise producing items nearby like wifi routers, anything with Bluetooth or computers nearby, you may want to invest in a reasonably priced shielded power cable and use the XLR input


----------



## SupperTime

tim0chan said:


> Yep, but if U have alot of EMI noise producing items nearby like wifi routers, anything with Bluetooth or computers nearby, you may want to invest in a reasonably priced shielded power cable and use the XLR input


What would be an example of such cable? 
Is the ifi dc purifier enough or what is a link?


----------



## JMCIII

dmdm said:


> I find 80db is pretty satisfying but I'm usually in the 70s.




I find much over 70dB is too loud for my ear to listen to consistently via headphones (I am about 85 dB max via my loudspeakers).


----------



## JMCIII

Question. I'm thinking of the SMSL SP200 as my main headphone amp. I have AudioQuest NightHawks and NightOwls, Audeze LCD-1, and AKG 701 headphones that I use 99% of the time. Given that I don't want to listen at more than 72 dB most of the time, is the SMSL SP200 going to wor? I'll be connecting it via balanced connections from my Oppo 105D and single-ended from my MacBook Pro for streaming.


----------



## BobMonkhouse

I can't listen to my NightOwl through the SP200 balanced louder than 9 o'clock on the volume dial, and this is with applied 89 db replay gain. I reduce my D70 balanced output by minimum 5 to 10 db to be able to dial up the SP200.


----------



## SupperTime

Which thx amp is best currently, in sound quality alone?


----------



## JMCIII

BobMonkhouse said:


> I can't listen to my NightOwl through the SP200 balanced louder than 9 o'clock on the volume dial, and this is with applied 89 db replay gain. I reduce my D70 balanced output by minimum 5 to 10 db to be able to dial up the SP200.




Thanks


----------



## JMCIII

How well to the SMSL SP200 and M500 (used mainly as an MQA DAC) play together? Thinking if they play well, this might be the way to go, so I can run the balanced cables to the SP200 for headphone listening and the single-ended to my stereo for room-filling sound. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Anton333

JMCIII said:


> How well to the SMSL SP200 and M500 (used mainly as an MQA DAC) play together? Thinking if they play well, this might be the way to go, so I can run the balanced cables to the SP200 for headphone listening and the single-ended to my stereo for room-filling sound. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.


I have this devices together. I like sound. (I like Sabre DAC). To me they sound no worse than Chord Hugo 2. Hugo 2 is good for headphone listening, but isn't good for stereo.
Don't be sad when you hear it for the first time. After burning the sound is much better!


----------



## Anton333

www.audiosciencereview.com
This site reviewed SP200 and M500 and many other devices.


----------



## JMCIII

Anton333 said:


> I have this devices together. I like sound. (I like Sabre DAC). To me they sound no worse than Chord Hugo 2. Hugo 2 is good for headphone listening, but isn't good for stereo.
> Don't be sad when you hear it for the first time. After burning the sound is much better!




Thanks. That helps.


----------



## tim0chan

SupperTime said:


> What would be an example of such cable?
> Is the ifi dc purifier enough or what is a link?


Try Pangea audio power cables, ac14


----------



## Jon L

For SMSL SP200 owners who listen to certain headphones and/or music that can use just a bit more forgiveness and richness, "tube magic" if you will, the iFi iTube2 is a viable option.  It's surprisingly transparent for a tube buffer with all kinds of adjustments, but I do prefer to leave bass boost off and to choose "push pull" instead of "SET" mode to preserve maximum transparency while adding a touch of tube magic.  
Luckily, the RCA jack spacing is the same on SP200 and iTube2, so that one can use RCA-RCA adapters to avoid adding another run of interconnect in the chain.




0228201425 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## Shane D

Jon L said:


> For SMSL SP200 owners who listen to certain headphones and/or music that can use just a bit more forgiveness and richness, "tube magic" if you will, the iFi iTube2 is a viable option.  It's surprisingly transparent for a tube buffer with all kinds of adjustments, but I do prefer to leave bass boost off and to choose "push pull" instead of "SET" mode to preserve maximum transparency while adding a touch of tube magic.
> Luckily, the RCA jack spacing is the same on SP200 and iTube2, so that one can use RCA-RCA adapters to avoid adding another run of interconnect in the chain.
> 
> 
> ...



Very interesting. I had thought about inserting my Loki in the chain, but that buffer looks interesting. Give the SP200 some flavour.


----------



## tim0chan

Shane D said:


> Very interesting. I had thought about inserting my Loki in the chain, but that buffer looks interesting. Give the SP200 some flavour.


Might as well do both?


----------



## Shane D

tim0chan said:


> Might as well do both?



That seems like overkill?


----------



## tim0chan

Shane D said:


> That seems like overkill?


Nah, I think there wouldn't be the tube magic without the ifi and not enough tinkering potential without the schiit so personally I would do both but I would start with the ifi as it does have the xbass and 3d adjustments


----------



## Jon L

Shane D said:


> Very interesting. I had thought about inserting my Loki in the chain, but that buffer looks interesting. Give the SP200 some flavour.



If you already have the Loki, why not try it.  I do hate how additional interconnects decrease transparency, even very expensive ones, but photos of Loki look like the RCA jack's spacing is same as SP200 and iTube2.  You'd be very surprised how even TOTL, expensive interconnects fare worse compared to cheap RCA-RCA adapters   

I do wish the Loki had more hinge points than 20 Hz, 400 Hz, 2 kHz, 8 kHz, but being analogue, each additional point will increase the cost.


----------



## BobMonkhouse

Subjectively of course, I can't hear a difference in the sound when Loki is off or on (all 0 levels). Together with my SYS, they're very useful when needed, especially with such a transparent and powerful amp like SP200. I wish that Loki had another EQ setting about 5 kHz but I guess nothing is perfect.


----------



## Shane D

Jon L said:


> If you already have the Loki, why not try it.  I do hate how additional interconnects decrease transparency, even very expensive ones, but photos of Loki look like the RCA jack's spacing is same as SP200 and iTube2.  You'd be very surprised how even TOTL, expensive interconnects fare worse compared to cheap RCA-RCA adapters
> 
> I do wish the Loki had more hinge points than 20 Hz, 400 Hz, 2 kHz, 8 kHz, but being analogue, each additional point will increase the cost.



I love the Loki and it's usage is mandatory with the ESP/E95X set-up.

I am currently sitting on 6 amps, so at this point I have lots of variety. When I start to narrow down my selection, and I will be keeping the SP200, I might then plug in the Loki occasionally.
But I can see the iFi micro iTube2 being a set it and forget it solution for that amp. It really is ice cold.

After you posted about this i went online to check out pricing, here in Canada. It goes for $549.00, plus tax. Too much for me as I am looking at a tube amp currently.

Just out of curiosity, I went on to Canuck Audio Mart and guess what? A guy on there got this product as a gift and doesn't want it. He is asking $450.00, plus shipping. I offered him $400.00, shipped. He said no.
Just as well. I don't need it and really can't afford it right now as I want to order a tube amp in the next few days.

But now it's in my head like a damned ear worm and I can't stop thinking about it.


----------



## BobMonkhouse

You can check the xDuoo TA-10. It's a great DAC/amp for CAD 330. And it can be used as a hybrid tube pre-amp for SP200.


----------



## Shane D

BobMonkhouse said:


> You can check the xDuoo TA-10. It's a great DAC/amp for CAD 330. And it can be used as a hybrid tube pre-amp for SP200.



Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't need a DAC. I already have a TA-20 amp. I am about ready to give up on hybrid amps.

I have my search narrowed to two low impedance tube amps.


----------



## dgozalie

here my friend review this sp200.. 

https://orronoco.blogspot.com/2020/03/smsl-sp200-thx-certified-headphones.html


----------



## 340519

dgozalie said:


> here my friend review this sp200..
> 
> https://orronoco.blogspot.com/2020/03/smsl-sp200-thx-certified-headphones.html


Excellent review and I agree, it sounds incredible.  I can't tell a difference between it and my Bryston hpa1, and that is saying a lot.


----------



## dgozalie

here is the component review

https://orronoco.blogspot.com/2020/03/smsl-sp200-components-analysis.html


----------



## Jon L

dgozalie said:


> here is the component review
> 
> https://orronoco.blogspot.com/2020/03/smsl-sp200-components-analysis.html



Good job to your friend for component analysis.  
Most likely, he will end up swapping some parts around and report back with "better" sound, but I would leave well enough alone myself.  
It really looks like a well-designed circuit board, especially if one considers the RETAIL price of $289.99!
I do wonder what the voltage rating for the RCA DC blocking Nichicon BP 220uF cap is, as that *might* be one place DIY'er might want to "upgrade."  However, 220uF value (and voltage) along with available space will limit what can be swapped in there, and there is no consensus out there on whether things like Elna Silmic II actually sound better. Infamous Black Gates go for hundreds of dollars on the Bay these days, more than the cost of the amp.  
The volume pot is cheap as expected, but in my case, I leave it wide open and control volume with my front end anyway.  
We already knew the 4-pin XLR output is there for convenience, not true balanced output.

***One thing that WAS helpful to know is that XLR line inputs go through an additional op-amp stage to convert it to single-ended, so I would recommend using single-ended inputs (I already do)


----------



## 340519

Jon L said:


> Good job to your friend for component analysis.
> Most likely, he will end up swapping some parts around and report back with "better" sound, but I would leave well enough alone myself.
> It really looks like a well-designed circuit board, especially if one considers the RETAIL price of $289.99!
> I do wonder what the voltage rating for the RCA DC blocking Nichicon BP 220uF cap is, as that *might* be one place DIY'er might want to "upgrade."  However, 220uF value (and voltage) along with available space will limit what can be swapped in there, and there is no consensus out there on whether things like Elna Silmic II actually sound better. Infamous Black Gates go for hundreds of dollars on the Bay these days, more than the cost of the amp.
> ...


I'm curious about your comment concerning the xlr inputs going through additional stage. Evidence?


----------



## Jon L

Jon L said:


> I'm curious about your comment concerning the xlr inputs going through additional stage. Evidence?



It's in the linked article re component analysis:
"The section 6 is for sure is input buffer same as the section 4, except it is for balanced input to single ended output converter. The reason for this is because the input at the amplifier on section 3 is all single ended, so even the audio line input is balanced, they need to convert it to the single ended by using the op-amps before go to the volume control and the amplifier section. The op-amp IC are OPA1612A."


----------



## 340519

I switched back from xlr to se because of your post. Thanks


----------



## Horyu

hello, I bought this amplifier some time ago in combo with the topping d50s and I must say that I love it, but now I wanted to buy Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO, are they ok with this amp or are they not recommended?


----------



## frogmeat69

Horyu said:


> hello, I bought this amplifier some time ago in combo with the topping d50s and I must say that I love it, but now I wanted to buy Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO, are they ok with this amp or are they not recommended?


That combo is is about as transparent sounding as you can get, and if you are a fan of the character of Beyerdynamic cans, you should be fine. More than enough power to drive them to your deafness, lol.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Suppa92 said:


> Anyone tried SP200 with Topping D90? or better compared SU-8 against D90 with SP200?



I have ran the SP200 with the Topping D90 as well as the SU-8 V2.  I preferred the D90 vs. SU-8 V2 and returned the SU8.


----------



## chaotic_angel

bought yesterday, pair it with topping DX7s via XLR, so far liking it, however still better LO to RCA from DTR1, more clarity & blacker background


----------



## Currawong

Here's my review of the SP200:


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Mar 19, 2020)

Currawong said:


> Here's my review of the SP200:




I actually just watched this review as it popped up on my YouTube feed!  Nicely done.  @Currawong


----------



## maulikt

So, I am observing an unexpected outcome on the sp200.

I am pairing the SMSL SP200 with SMSL SU-8 V2. Listening on Hifiman HE1000SE headphones using stock XLR headphone cable from the XLR out on the SP200. Using Amazonbasics RCA and Amazonbasics XLR interconnect cables (Mogami Gold on the way) from SU-8 to SP200.

I expected the XLR will give similar or better output on the SP200 compared to using the RCA interconnects between the DAC and amp. However, I can clearly hear that using RCA yields a much cleaner output. Treble is much clearer, the instrument separation is more precise and the soundstage is more open. The XLRs sound more subdued comparatively on all fronts.

Any reason why this should happen?? I thought cables shouldn't make any difference or XLR should be better.

Has anyone observed similar output disparity?


----------



## Currawong

The XLR input has to pass through an opamp to be converted to a non-balanced signal, so you lose a bit of fidelity.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Mar 19, 2020)

maulikt said:


> So, I am observing an unexpected outcome on the sp200.
> 
> I am pairing the SMSL SP200 with SMSL SU-8 V2. Listening on Hifiman HE1000SE headphones using stock XLR headphone cable from the XLR out on the SP200. Using Amazonbasics RCA and Amazonbasics XLR interconnect cables (Mogami Gold on the way) from SU-8 to SP200.
> 
> ...



I actually read on another forum an Engineer from SMSL stated that when they created this amp they actually created it to be cleaner through single ended.  So that was the intention according to SMSL.  If you pull up the specs you will also see a touch more db through single ended I believe as well.


----------



## Jon L

maulikt said:


> So, I am observing an unexpected outcome on the sp200.
> 
> I am pairing the SMSL SP200 with SMSL SU-8 V2. Listening on Hifiman HE1000SE headphones using stock XLR headphone cable from the XLR out on the SP200. Using Amazonbasics RCA and Amazonbasics XLR interconnect cables (Mogami Gold on the way) from SU-8 to SP200.
> 
> ...



As posted above in post # 496:

"The section 6 is for sure is input buffer same as the section 4, except it is for balanced input to single ended output converter. The reason for this is because the input at the amplifier on section 3 is all single ended, so even the audio line input is balanced, they need to convert it to the single ended by using the op-amps before go to the volume control and the amplifier section. The op-amp IC are OPA1612A." 

Personally, I think SMSL should just get rid of the XLR input circuitry and use the savings to beef up the power supply a bit more.


----------



## chaotic_angel

Jon L said:


> Good job to your friend for component analysis.
> Most likely, he will end up swapping some parts around and report back with "better" sound, but I would leave well enough alone myself.
> It really looks like a well-designed circuit board, especially if one considers the RETAIL price of $289.99!
> I do wonder what the voltage rating for the RCA DC blocking Nichicon BP 220uF cap is, as that *might* be one place DIY'er might want to "upgrade."  However, 220uF value (and voltage) along with available space will limit what can be swapped in there, and there is no consensus out there on whether things like Elna Silmic II actually sound better. Infamous Black Gates go for hundreds of dollars on the Bay these days, more than the cost of the amp.
> ...



Helo @Jon L , Currently I am using XLR for the input, any found sound differences compared to the RCA please? need t know if it is worth to get a pair of RCA.


----------



## kid vic

Currawong said:


> Here's my review of the SP200:



Thanks for the review! I was considering getting this as an entry level reference to compare with my more end game set up. Great to see that it compares well against amps of like price.


----------



## muths66

Anyone try 3.5 out to rca on mobile to sp200? Will it sound bad?


----------



## tim0chan

muths66 said:


> Anyone try 3.5 out to rca on mobile to sp200? Will it sound bad?


From a phone? I suggest you get a DAC if you're already spending so much on an amp


----------



## chaotic_angel

muths66 said:


> Anyone try 3.5 out to rca on mobile to sp200? Will it sound bad?


Tried with DTR1 LO sound awesome clarity all the way


----------



## muths66

chaotic_angel said:


> Tried with DTR1 LO sound awesome clarity all the way


Will be waiting for topping e30 pair up


----------



## 340519

Question for you all: if I have the gain on low and the volume maxed with the pot and control the volume at source, will the amp be clipping with low volumes? It seems like this is a good way to go for channel imbalance and maximum potential for the amp. I cannot sense any clipping.


----------



## Dionysus

Just received my SP200 ordered a few days back based on some very positive reviews and I needed a small footprint desktop amp. I have been listening now for a few hours, wow what a fantastic sounding amp, good bass rumble, great decay, super detailed, clean. For the price this little amp sells for, its a pretty fantastic value, Very impressed. I felt compelled to give this amp a strong recommendation at under 300.00 dollars its a bargain imho of course.


----------



## Dionysus (Mar 31, 2020)

So I burn this amp now for a few days. what's everyones thoughts on single ended versus the xlr outputs? I understand that the output in xlr is mostly to facilitate endusers with balanced cables. So, is connecting a DAC via the balanced input provide any audible performance gains? thank you in advance.


----------



## Uebelkraehe

Actually, according to SMSL RCA should be better. However, shouldn't be audible anyway if i remember correctly. XLR is only for convenience.


----------



## Dionysus

Uebelkraehe said:


> Actually, according to SMSL RCA should be better. However, shouldn't be audible anyway if i remember correctly. XLR is only for convenience.


Thank you, what I thought, appreciate your reply.


----------



## staffz93

How does this compare to the monoprice 887 or the drop 789? Ive read tons of reports but no general consensus...


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Apr 7, 2020)

staffz93 said:


> How does this compare to the monoprice 887 or the drop 789? Ive read tons of reports but no general consensus...



Great question not sure if there is a general consensus yet.  I am probably going to sell mine. 


Edit:

after listening more today and A/B this amp vs. the MCTH for my desktop work station it’s a nice compliment to my listening experience especially for the Aeon2C.  I will probably hold onto it since it’s paid for and fits nicely on my desk!


----------



## Shane D

staffz93 said:


> How does this compare to the monoprice 887 or the drop 789? Ive read tons of reports but no general consensus...



If you Google or YouTube that question you will get dozens of pretty authoritative comparisons.

If you ask on a model specific thread, you are unlikely to get any unbiased answers.


----------



## staffz93

MRphotography said:


> Great question not sure if there is a general consensus yet.  I am probably going to sell mine.


Thanks for the insight, what are you planning to replace it with?


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

staffz93 said:


> Thanks for the insight, what are you planning to replace it with?



nothing, I have three other amps.  I may keep it too if I can’t get a fair price.  It’s a good little amp, I do prefer tube hybrid over THX solid state.


----------



## Iceberg420

Sorry for the dumb question, but I've just recently hooked set this up on my desk and am hoping it's okay to leave the amp on full time. Does anyone know if this amp will draw lots of power if left on (ie standby)?

Also, soes anyone have any long term experience with leaving this amp on for long periods of time (ie weeks or more)? Any issues?


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Iceberg420 said:


> Sorry for the dumb question, but I've just recently hooked set this up on my desk and am hoping it's okay to leave the amp on full time. Does anyone know if this amp will draw lots of power if left on (ie standby)?
> 
> Also, soes anyone have any long term experience with leaving this amp on for long periods of time (ie weeks or more)? Any issues?



I personally always turn mine off when not in use as I do with all my gear to prolong life, reduce electricity consumption, and potential heat related issues.


----------



## Iceberg420

My thinking was the same, thanks for the response. I'll just have to get used to switching the amp off when I'm done.


----------



## XeNoNF50

After too much reading and research I just ordered this SMSL SP200 & Topping D50s. Sounds like some of you have had success with this pairing. 

I was previously using Creative AE-5 soundcard before on my PC (mostly music but some gaming) and kind of sacked that off to use the FiiO BTR5 I bought for my FiiO FH7 in USB mode since so hopefully this will enhance my set up somewhat. Will currently be using AKG K712 Pro headphones but still looking into an upgrade to something up to the £1000 mark, not 100% sure what yet though.


----------



## nicolaas

It seems that this amp could be so much better if SMSL fixed the low / high gain switch and improved the looks / packaging. Make it slightly nicer and THX 789 ceases to exist


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

nicolaas said:


> It seems that this amp could be so much better if SMSL fixed the low / high gain switch and improved the looks / packaging. Make it slightly nicer and THX 789 ceases to exist



If you are a THX sound lover than this one does it pretty well. Unit to unit QC I believe has been an issue for some. I got lucky with mine. They all need a better volume pot though as they tend to get so loud so quick that if you have any sensitive headphones or IEM’s it’s not likely the amp to choose even on low gain. Or if you are unlucky and get one with more severe channel imbalance then it could be an issue as well. Overall for the price and the size it still fits many listeners needs. The improvements you spoke of would be very welcomed.


----------



## Shane D

I like this amp for what it is: flat, clean and neutral. It is not an amp that I would ever love but it certainly has it uses. 

In my experience:
1) It cleans up the Fostex TH-610's very nicely. The Fostex's sound wonderful on it. The sloppiness cleans up and the bass sounds strong.

2) It works great with the Focal Elex's, if the music is super clean. It is a dream match up with jazz.

3) The Sundara's sound nice, if a little bright. Just one day of use.

4) The Senn HD58X's sound pretty good with this amp.

5) The Senn HD600's didn't sound great with it.

6) My beloved Grado GH2's sound horrible on it.

7) Beyer T5p.2's did not sound very good.

8) Meze 99 Classic's don't sound like anything special.

It's hard to make blanket statements, but I don't think bright headphones work well with amp.

On the flip side, if you have dark or messy headphones, these _may _really clean them up.

Not a favourite, but a necessary part of the system.


----------



## cirodts

Hi everyone, since yesterday I also have the S.M.S.L SP200 THX, how many hours of break-in do you need?


----------



## Uebelkraehe

Zero.


----------



## Iceberg420

I'll second that break-in isn't necessary as well. Amp has been sounding exactly the same from day one, and I've been using it since mid December.


----------



## 340519

Shane D said:


> I like this amp for what it is: flat, clean and neutral. It is not an amp that I would ever love but it certainly has it uses.
> 
> In my experience:
> 1) It cleans up the Fostex TH-610's very nicely. The Fostex's sound wonderful on it. The sloppiness cleans up and the bass sounds strong.
> ...


I use it with both the audeze x and xc, and they sound incredible.  The bass is lovely.


----------



## 340519

Iceberg420 said:


> I'll second that break-in isn't necessary as well. Amp has been sounding exactly the same from day one, and I've been using it since mid December.


Same for me.


----------



## Jon L

dmdm said:


> I use it with both the audeze x and xc, and they sound incredible.  The bass is lovely.



Yup, SMSL SP2000 especially seems to thrive on "hard to drive" planars, such as my Abyss.


----------



## g1nko

Hi everyone, my first post here. I am searching for a little upgrade to my aune s16 and hifiman x v2. I own more headphones yet finding a good match for hifiman is my goal. I can't afford to change everything right now and still want my equipment as compact and minimalistic as possible, and cheap  I think that separating amp from DAC is the first thing to do. SMSL SP200 is on my list, but what do you think about pairing it with aune s16. AKM 4495 is rather a smooth sound I suppose. I want to make my hifiman sound more open, airy, more depth, more impact on bass, better low-end response, more detailed. But I still don't want them to sound dry, clinical, lifeless or harsh on the treble region. It's hard to describe. I want good details, airly, spacious sound but need to maintain smooth and warm, musical presentation. I found that hifiman with my aune is rather neutral-warmish, but needs more bass impact and quantity. Do you think paring it with SMSL sp200 is a good choice? I want to change DAC later, maybe for something more expensive.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Apr 11, 2020)

g1nko said:


> Hi everyone, my first post here. I am searching for a little upgrade to my aune s16 and hifiman x v2. I own more headphones yet finding a good match for hifiman is my goal. I can't afford to change everything right now and still want my equipment as compact and minimalistic as possible, and cheap  I think that separating amp from DAC is the first thing to do. SMSL SP200 is on my list, but what do you think about pairing it with aune s16. AKM 4495 is rather a smooth sound I suppose. I want to make my hifiman sound more open, airy, more depth, more impact on bass, better low-end response, more detailed. But I still don't want them to sound dry, clinical, lifeless or harsh on the treble region. It's hard to describe. I want good details, airly, spacious sound but need to maintain smooth and warm, musical presentation. I found that hifiman with my aune is rather neutral-warmish, but needs more bass impact and quantity. Do you think paring it with SMSL sp200 is a good choice? I want to change DAC later, maybe for something more expensive.



I haven’t paired the Smsl SP200THX with those headphones.  I do have the Ananda’s however and they sound very good with the sp200THX.  I will say though to your want “ I still don't want them to sound dry, clinical, lifeless or harsh on the treble region.”  By nature I find this amp to be exacting, somewhat clinical, at times harsh in the treble region.  It’s a THX amp so you are getting what the recording is offering with no harmonic distortion to smooth the treble or harsher areas of tracks.  I think it is important to realize this when choosing this amp.  For me it’s an amp to test headphones on and listen to a recording so I have a more neutral true to recording presentation.  It’s is not always my go to music enjoyment amp.  Essentially I can take it in small doses and generally I will adjust the settings of my DAC some when using it to make it a little more enjoyable to listen to.


----------



## Shane D (Apr 11, 2020)

I am enjoying the Sundara's and the Elex's on this amp. I have been A-B'ing against a Burson Fun amp with Classic opamps.

The SP200 is sounding a little more open and lively. And with good solid bass.

I have to say that this amp is starting to win me over. I sold two hybrid amps and have five amps left. Only two are standing out:
1) MAD Ear+ HD II tube amp.
And
2) SMSL SP200 solid state amp.

Both have VERY distinct sound signatures that are just about polar opposites. Nice pairing!


----------



## lugnut (Apr 11, 2020)

Shane D said:


> I like this amp for what it is: flat, clean and neutral. It is not an amp that I would ever love but it certainly has it uses.





Shane D said:


> I am enjoying the Sundara's and the Elex's on this amp. I have been A-B'ing against a Burson Fun amp with Classic opamps
> [/QUO
> 
> 
> *Didn't you have a xDuoo TA-20 ? I know it is a hybrid, how did it compare to the SP-200 ? Just looking at the specs and knowing how other tube hybrids vs a solid states sounds, I would have guessed the ta-20 would have worked very well with the Sundara and Elex. What was your experience ?  Thanks*


----------



## Shane D

I did indeed have a Schiit Vali 2 and an XDuoo TA-20.

The Schiit Vali 2 just sounded like an SS amp to me. Nothing special at all.
The XDuoo sounded very different. Tubey? Maybe. A different and not fully pleasant sound to me.

I tried the Elex's with both of them and was non plussed. They were okay, but not stand out.

The Sundara's only arrived Monday after both hybrids were gone.

The Elex's sound good out of almost anything, except the tube amp. That includes Burson Fun-Classic, LCX, Liquid Spark and the SP200. When I first got these I played them for 21 straight days, while waiting for my tube amp to be built.

The Sundara's appear to be a little fussier and also don't love the tube amp. But it's only been a week.


----------



## g1nko

@DarKu hi, can you write something about comparing sp200 to aune s7 pro amp? I know its more expensive, but I want to make one time buy (cha, never worked). Maybe it is worth to wait a while and buy something safer. If aune is more musical and better in terms of soundstage size but still maintains to hold a good amount of clarity, air, and detail. Or maybe I just need to buy sp200, listen and send it back if needed  Still a little afraid to connect it to hifiman x v2 and m aune s16, even if I see people matching it with more ,,dry" dacs like sabre.

@Shane D hi, can you tell the difference between sp200 and burson fun in terms of soundstage and details, clarity?


----------



## Shane D

g1nko said:


> @Shane D hi, can you tell the difference between sp200 and burson fun in terms of soundstage and details, clarity?



I have been specifically A-B'ing these two amps with Sundara's and Elex's.

I have to say that the SP200 has won out. It sounds more open, more clear and even has some sparkle. Also, the bass has more authority.

I was not overly impressed with this amp when I first got it, but it really has grown on me. Burn-in is real! But just the mental part.

I will be selling my Burson with three sets of opamps. I will also be selling my Drop LCX.
Both will be replaced by a Monolith Liquid Platinum.

I just sold three sets of headphones and two amps. The culling continues.


----------



## Jon L

Shane D said:


> I have to say that the SP200 has won out. It sounds more open, more clear and even has some sparkle. Also, the bass has more authority.



Yup, it's very difficult to beat SMSL SP200 in that price range.  In fact, if SMSL and much more expensive amps were hidden behind a curtain and compared, the results may surprise many IMO


----------



## 340519

Jon L said:


> Yup, it's very difficult to beat SMSL SP200 in that price range.  In fact, if SMSL and much more expensive amps were hidden behind a curtain and compared, the results may surprise many IMO


I hate to say it, but I like the smsl sp200 better than my bryston bha1.


----------



## nicolaas

Anyone knows how SP200 compares to Schiit Asgard 3? In UK they are same price and TBH i prefer Asgard's look much more and read the it has slighlty warmer sound which I prefer.


----------



## XeNoNF50

I received my SP200 and have set it up, paired with Topping D50s. Currently using mostly with my IEMs, the FiiO FH7, which I usually use with my phone as source and FiiO BTR5 as the mobile AMP & DAC, basically my set up when remote/commuting/at work. What a marked difference the SP200 makes! I'm literally blown away. 

Looking forward to my Audeze LCD-2 Classic to arrive even more than I was now.


----------



## Shane D (Apr 14, 2020)

XeNoNF50 said:


> I received my SP200 and have set it up, paired with Topping D50s. Currently using mostly with my IEMs, the FiiO FH7, which I usually use with my phone as source and FiiO BTR5 as the mobile AMP & DAC, basically my set up when remote/commuting/at work. What a marked difference the SP200 makes! I'm literally blown away.
> 
> Looking forward to my Audeze LCD-2 Classic to arrive even more than I was now.



Be interested to hear your take on the pairing. I have heard a lot of good things about the Classic's.


----------



## Uebelkraehe

nicolaas said:


> Anyone knows how SP200 compares to Schiit Asgard 3? In UK they are same price and TBH i prefer Asgard's look much more and read the it has slighlty warmer sound which I prefer.



The SP200 is as neutral as it gets. If you prefer a warmer signature from your amp, this is not a good choice.


----------



## Dionysus

I’ve had plenty of amps over a long period of time in this hobby. The SP200 is very hard to beat in value and performance and ticks way above it’s asking price. After a 2 weeks “break in” of playing it 24/7 I am thoroughly impressed.


----------



## jithu215

How is the synergy with hd650 my only headphone.Any one compared schiit heresy with sp200.


----------



## armani006

Is it enough powerful to drive 87 dB headphones? Like HEDDs for example... 42 Ohm.


----------



## staffz93

armani006 said:


> Is it enough powerful to drive 87 dB headphones? Like HEDDs for example... 42 Ohm.


I know of people that use these THX amps to drive their abyss or LCD4's so yes I think it would be a safe bet that it would work with the HEDDs.


----------



## Uebelkraehe

armani006 said:


> Is it enough powerful to drive 87 dB headphones? Like HEDDs for example... 42 Ohm.



Tried it and it definitely has enough power. Though i didn't like the combination very much, too dry for my taste. YMMV.


----------



## Dionysus (Apr 18, 2020)

jithu215 said:


> How is the synergy with hd650 my only headphone.Any one compared schiit heresy with sp200.


I owned the Heresy right before the SP200 arrived at my doorstep. I returned the Schiit Heresy, nice amp and a hell of a value as well but. The SP200 was so definitively more clear, more resolving and it was immediately apparent it was special. After 2 straight weeks of breaking in, its removed that little harsh edge it had that I noticed at first. I am extremely happy, its going to take a something really special for me to upgrade at any price.


----------



## staffz93

jithu215 said:


> How is the synergy with hd650 my only headphone.Any one compared schiit heresy with sp200.


I think the pairing of an ultra neutral amp with a slightly warm headphone like the hd650 (HD6xx in my case) is perfect. To my ears, the pairing lets the Sennheisers give you detail but never painful amounts.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

jithu215 said:


> How is the synergy with hd650 my only headphone.Any one compared schiit heresy with sp200.



I would say the HD650/6XX pairing with the SP200THX isn't a bad one.  I think the powerful neutral/dry sound of the little THX amp puts out sounds decent when paired with the 6XX but I still use a Schiit Loki to bring up the lower base and mid bass to my taste.  I prefer the LYR3/Bifrost to the SMSLSP200THX with the 650, and I know the 6XX benefit significantly from OTL tube amps such as the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball which I will be building soon.


----------



## 340519

Dionysus said:


> I owned the Heresy right before the SP200 arrived at my doorstep. I returned the Schiit Heresy, nice amp and a hell of a value as well but. The SP200 was so definitively more clear, more resolving and it was immediately apparent it was special. After 2 straight weeks of breaking in its removed that little harsh edge it had that I noticed at first. I am extremely happy, its going to take a something really special for me to upgrade at any price.


Yes, it is one of the best amps I have ever had the pleasure of hearing.


----------



## 340519

MRphotography said:


> I would say the HD650/6XX pairing with the SP200THX isn't a bad one.  I think the powerful neutral/dry sound of the little THX amp puts out sounds decent when paired with the 6XX but I still use a Schiit Loki to bring up the lower base and mid bass to my taste.  I prefer the LYR3/Bifrost to the SMSLSP200THX with the 650, and I know the 6XX benefit significantly from OTL tube amps such as the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball which I will be building soon.


Interesting,  because the sp200 brings out full bodied incredible bass in my 800S, Clear, XC, and X. It pushed them as well as my beefy Bryston.


----------



## 340519

Listening to the new paul van dyk album with the sp200 and x. Wow, what a powerful beautiful sounding combo.


----------



## 340519




----------



## LoutishXY

Interesting..After reading the review on this over at Audiosciencereview, I think I might get this over the monolith THX amp. Really itching to get a fully balanced set up going. Has anyone used this amp with the HD650/660s?


----------



## 340519

LoutishXY said:


> Interesting..After reading the review on this over at Audiosciencereview, I think I might get this over the monolith THX amp. Really itching to get a fully balanced set up going. Has anyone used this amp with the HD650/660s?


From what I understand it is not balanced, therefore I use the se input and output.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

LoutishXY said:


> Interesting..After reading the review on this over at Audiosciencereview, I think I might get this over the monolith THX amp. Really itching to get a fully balanced set up going. Has anyone used this amp with the HD650/660s?



It was my go to amp for awhile with the 6XX, and I still use it today with the a Schiit Loki and D90.  I also have several other amps and DACS now.  

  I would urge you to check a few other reviews besides ASR, they are good for understanding measurements as well as learning what gear measures well but unless you listen with your eyes 👀 see what others think of it’s sound vs. other solid state, hybrid and tube amps.  My 2cents as a current owner.


----------



## cirodts

Hi, I'm a happy owner of the sp200, listening with the beyerdinamic amiron and tin audio t2, a show, which headphones match best with this amplifier?


----------



## cirodts

I listen to the sp200 connected to my ibasso dx220, listening in line out the sound is a little sterile and without body, if I connect in headphone output instead the sound is full-bodied and perfect, why is it better in headphone output than in line out?


----------



## 340519

MRphotography said:


> It was my go to amp for awhile with the 6XX, and I still use it today with the a Schiit Loki and D90.  I also have several other amps and DACS now.
> 
> I would urge you to check a few other reviews besides ASR, they are good for understanding measurements as well as learning what gear measures well but unless you listen with your eyes 👀 see what others think of it’s sound vs. other solid state, hybrid and tube amps.  My 2cents as a current owner.


Along with the bryston bha1 it's one of the best amps I've ever heard and ever owned. Totally worth it and highly recommended.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

dmdm said:


> Along with the bryston bha1 it's one of the best amps I've ever heard and ever owned. Totally worth it and highly recommended.



I think for a used price or on sale it’s a good little amp to have.  I still enjoy mine with certain headphones.  👍


----------



## Shane D

LoutishXY said:


> Interesting..After reading the review on this over at Audiosciencereview, I think I might get this over the monolith THX amp. Really itching to get a fully balanced set up going. Has anyone used this amp with the HD650/660s?



I tried it with HD600's and was completely underwhelmed. Not a great combo, IMO.
I liked the HD58X's with it better actually.


----------



## 340519

Well with audeze planar phones it's stellar.


----------



## Shane D (Apr 20, 2020)

dmdm said:


> Well with audeze planar phones it's stellar.



I like my Sundara's and Focal Elex's on it.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

dmdm said:


> Well with audeze planar phones it's stellar.



I think it pairs fairly well with my planar  headphones (Aeon2C and Ananda) as well.


----------



## defguy

Has anyone used this with Elear? I'm assuming the results should be similar to Elex? I'm currently using Dragonfly Red or Cayin N5 mk2 into Fiio E12 DIY. 
I'm considering this, Monolith THX, iFi Micro BL or Shiit Asgard 3. I have a couple of DAC options I can use with this but an all in one solution would be better


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Apr 22, 2020)

defguy said:


> Has anyone used this with Elear? I'm assuming the results should be similar to Elex? I'm currently using Dragonfly Red or Cayin N5 mk2 into Fiio E12 DIY.
> I'm considering this, Monolith THX, iFi Micro BL or Shiit Asgard 3. I have a couple of DAC options I can use with this but an all in one solution would be better



I did use this amp with the the Elear with both the Clear pads essentially the Elex and also with the stock Elear pads.  It sounded decent however I found myself needing to adjust the tones with the Schiit Loki to make the listening experience less fatiguing and more enjoyable.

I didn’t end up keeping the Elear’s. The choice to return them may have been helped by the THX pairing or just by the fact I may not enjoy most focal offerings as much as other headphones.

I love the iFi Micro IDSD black label, its portability factor, power, dual burr brown dac chip set, and XBASS and 3D features make for a pretty versatile little amp.  I also enjoy a bit warmer sound presentation.


----------



## Shane D

defguy said:


> Has anyone used this with Elear? I'm assuming the results should be similar to Elex? I'm currently using Dragonfly Red or Cayin N5 mk2 into Fiio E12 DIY.
> I'm considering this, Monolith THX, iFi Micro BL or Shiit Asgard 3. I have a couple of DAC options I can use with this but an all in one solution would be better



I like the Elex with it but only when the music is smooth and clean.


----------



## Uebelkraehe

The Focal Clear did sound really good with this amp, although i ended up selling them. Didn't like their timbre.


----------



## 340519

I have the Clear and it sounds fabulous with the sp200.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Shane D said:


> I like the Elex with it but only when the music is smooth and clean.



Shane, I think you nailed it.  The SMSL SP200 pairs really well with a touch warmer headphones IMO. Brighter sounding headphones or headphones that have an odd timbre can sound a bit harsh especially if the recording isn't great.


----------



## Shane D

MRphotography said:


> Shane, I think you nailed it.  The SMSL SP200 pairs really well with a touch warmer headphones IMO. Brighter sounding headphones or headphones that have an odd timbre can sound a bit harsh especially if the recording isn't great.



Totally agree.


----------



## Dionysus

I think they sound great with HD800s.


----------



## 340519

Dionysus said:


> I think they sound great with HD800s.


Absolutely.


----------



## 340519 (Apr 25, 2020)

MRphotography said:


> Shane, I think you nailed it.  The SMSL SP200 pairs really well with a touch warmer headphones IMO. Brighter sounding headphones or headphones that have an odd timbre can sound a bit harsh especially if the recording isn't great.


Because the sp200 just tells it like it is. It exposes the headphone's and recording's flaws. It is a truthful amplifier or straight wire with gain.


----------



## Shane D (Apr 25, 2020)

The weird thing is that you could describe this headphone amp as bassy, although I know it isn't. But when bass is in the music the SP200 really brings it out. Right now I am bouncing between my tube amp and the SP200 and the difference is Very notable.

I know the amp is flat and neutral, but it brings out the bass when it finds it. I have been on a Focal Elex kick the last few days with my new tube amp. It has good bass, but when I hear some bass kicking a bit I do a quick change and wow, does the same song ever pop on the SP200.

Right now I am only using two amps and the differences are stark!


----------



## 340519

Shane D said:


> The weird thing is that you could describe this headphone amp as bassy, although I know it isn't. But when bass is in the music the SP200 really brings it out. Right now I am bouncing between my tube amp and the SP200 and the difference is Very notable.
> 
> I know the amp is flat and neutral, but it brings out the bass when it finds it. I have been on a Focal Elex kick the last few days with my new tube amp. It has good bass, but when I hear some bass kicking a bit I do a quick change and wow, does the same song ever pop on the SP200.
> 
> Right now I am only using two amps and the differences are stark!


I hear ya. I just switched out the sp200 for my icon audio hp8 mk2 since the smsl gear is headed to my cottage to stay. I love that tube sound as well!


----------



## Shane D

dmdm said:


> I hear ya. I just switched out the sp200 for my icon audio hp8 mk2 since the smsl gear is headed to my cottage to stay. I love that tube sound as well!



It is great to have choices!


----------



## oneway23 (May 12, 2020)

Anyone using this amp with the Focal Stellia who can offer impressions?  Thanks!


----------



## muths66

Now use topping e30 pair up sp200. Was looking at tube preamp. Anyone think is this setup suitable for it?


----------



## cirodts

what differences between balanced and unbalanced


----------



## Uebelkraehe

cirodts said:


> what differences between balanced and unbalanced



Practically none (as far as measurements are concerned, RCA apparently is marginally better), XLR is just for convenience, there is no real balanced.


----------



## cirodts

has anyone compared an ibasso dx220 with 8ex amp to sp200?


----------



## cirodts

so the sp200 is not a real balanced amplifier?
should the rca connection instead of xlr to have a better sound quality?


----------



## 340519

cirodts said:


> so the sp200 is not a real balanced amplifier?
> should the rca connection instead of xlr to have a better sound quality?


Yes


----------



## capt1cuddles (May 11, 2020)

What DAC should I pair it with for use with DT770 80ohm/ LCD-2C?
 I'm not sure if I've made the right choice for an amp for the LCD-2C, can't test since they are in stock only on the 15th, but I need to get a DAC until then.


----------



## escalibur

SMSL has released M200 DAC designed with this amp in mind.

http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=161


----------



## capt1cuddles

escalibur said:


> SMSL has released M200 DAC designed with this amp in mind.
> 
> http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=161


I've seen it, but delivery is slow , june 10-30. I will lose the return window on the amp by then.


----------



## XeNoNF50 (May 11, 2020)

capt1cuddles said:


> I've seen it, but delivery is slow , june 10-30. I will lose the return window on the amp by then.


It is very difficult to get access to great but cheaper headphone amp and DACs in a timely manner in the UK. I feel your pain!

I would suggest the SMSL M300 MKII at this stage if you want something you can buy quick on Amazon UK. From what I've seen it looks good - it uses the AK4497 like the M200 suggested above does but obviously a different design profile.

I bought the SP200 to originally pair with the LCD-2C. It was my intention to buy those headphones but I managed to get a pair of Verum Ones instead so it gets paired with that instead. I honestly feel it is a great AMP but I don't have much of a reference point before it.

Then it was my intention to pair it with the LCD-X which I was going to purchase. Instead I got the Focal Utopia on order so will initially try with that I suppose but I guess I am now looking out for something that will pair naturally with it.


----------



## MalinYamato

chillihead said:


> I replaced the volume knob with a knurled aluminum machined knob. Much better quality! You can find them online. Way better quality and feel. I think it was 20mm in size but I will need to check.


can you provide a link to this knob?


----------



## MalinYamato

Dionysus said:


> I owned the Heresy right before the SP200 arrived at my doorstep. I returned the Schiit Heresy, nice amp and a hell of a value as well but. The SP200 was so definitively more clear, more resolving and it was immediately apparent it was special. After 2 straight weeks of breaking in, its removed that little harsh edge it had that I noticed at first. I am extremely happy, its going to take a something really special for me to upgrade at any price.


thank you for the input. I was waiting forever for Heresy to be available for sale by Schiit UK. Hersey is not that cheap after all and the more reviews I read the closer I get to push the button for a sp200 instead. The total cost for me in Sweden: Hersey = $170,  SP200 = $295 and 789 = $390. I hope my Sundara and AH-D7200 like this little cricked THX thing.


----------



## MalinYamato

dmdm said:


> I just bought a second sp200 I'm so impressed.


LOL, why do you need a second sp200?


----------



## 340519

MalinYamato said:


> LOL, why do you need a second sp200?


One for the house and one for the cottage of course!


----------



## cirodts

does the sp200 deliver the same power in both balanced and unbalanced, so it does not have a true balanced output, does the same apply to the monolith 789 thx?


----------



## hlee227

cirodts said:


> does the sp200 deliver the same power in both balanced and unbalanced, so it does not have a true balanced output, does the same apply to the monolith 789 thx?


I havent tried XLR output, but because the background noise and distortion is practically non-existing, I dont think THX amp requires true balance output.


----------



## XeNoNF50

cirodts said:


> does the sp200 deliver the same power in both balanced and unbalanced, so it does not have a true balanced output, does the same apply to the monolith 789 thx?


This is correct was far as I can tell.


----------



## cirodts

Strange that the monolith 789 thx has true balanced output and the sp200 does not.


----------



## XeNoNF50

cirodts said:


> Strange that the monolith 789 thx has true balanced output and the sp200 does not.


Don't think it is necessarily a bad thing getting same high level of performance regardless of the port used


----------



## cirodts

maybe the sp 200 in unbalanced sounds better than the monolith 789 balanced right?


----------



## MalinYamato

cirodts said:


> maybe the sp 200 in unbalanced sounds better than the monolith 789 balanced right?


How did you arrive at that conclusion?


----------



## cirodts

I assume because I have a sound that is unbalanced It is less harsh it is shot


----------



## hlee227

cirodts said:


> maybe the sp 200 in unbalanced sounds better than the monolith 789 balanced right?


Not sure if one sound better than others, but from my understanding of balance output was to reduce the distortion noise by separating Left and Right channel. 
BUT because THX module itself just murders those background noise, so increasing volume level doesn't increase in background noise because there is practically none. 
By this logic, I dont see a point of these amp (Drops, Monolith, SMSL) requires "true" balance output. Having one or not seems marketing at this point.

Other things that a person would mind is that, is there output impedance difference between unbalance and balance output. 
For SMSL SP200 it would seems to be same ?  

I think anyone who purchase SP200 would be satisfied as well as people who purchase THX 789~


----------



## cirodts

thanks for the explanations, I have the sp200 and I am extremely satisfied but I thought the monolith being completely balanced sounds better than the sp200?


----------



## cirodts

what sonic differences are there between the THX AAA 888 and THX AAA 887 chips?
Which is the best of the 2 chips?


----------



## 340519

This thing is mad powerful. It's great with the LCD 4s.


----------



## StarTreker

chillihead said:


> Cool! Got mine. Here is video of the build quality.




Yeah, flip those switches! I love that sweet sweet sound of toggle switches, nothing like that tactile feedback, that you've switched from low, to high gain power! I just ordered this amp, made a thread about it, then I noticed this thread after, and I was like, wow that is so weird. HAHA. I am going to skim through this thread looking for some more video's embed's and some pictures. Thanks for sharing that sexy build quality, volume and switches!


----------



## 340519

XeNoNF50 said:


> Don't think it is necessarily a bad thing getting same high level of performance regardless of the port used


True. The se sounds glorious.


----------



## StarTreker (May 20, 2020)

dmdm said:


> True. The se sounds glorious.



You know what else is glorious? The fact that you bought the S.M.S.L SP200 amp!

I've been going through the pages, and when I stumbled onto that post, I had to give you a like. Plus I like the avatar too, I am a sucker for all things outer space, especially nebula's. For me, the SP200 is going to be my be all, end all amp. Thats cause I can't afford anything better. lol

Hopefully you like your amp that you bought in November 2019!

PS: You guys do such a wonderful job on making me spend money. I have already just purchased a mod for my new S.M.S.L SP200 amp. Golden Aluminum replacement volume knob.
Golden 25 x 15.5mm Aluminum Rotary Control 6mm Dia Potentiometer Cap Knob


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> You know what else is glorious? The fact that you bought the S.M.S.L SP200 amp!
> 
> I've been going through the pages, and when I stumbled onto that post, I had to give you a like. Plus I like the avatar too, I am a sucker for all things outer space, especially nebula's. For me, the SP200 is going to be my be all, end all amp. Thats cause I can't afford anything better. lol
> 
> ...


Thank you! And thanks for the ebay link because I just bought one as well!


----------



## MalinYamato

StarTreker said:


> Yeah, flip those switches! I love that sweet sweet sound of toggle switches, nothing like that tactile feedback, that you've switched from low, to high gain power! I just ordered this amp, made a thread about it, then I noticed this thread after, and I was like, wow that is so weird. HAHA. I am going to skim through this thread looking for some more video's embed's and some pictures. Thanks for sharing that sexy build quality, volume and switches!


looks so small in your hands. I am struggling choosing between sp200 + m200 and m500 ,,, sp200 implements AAA, but  m200 lacks MQA and the case is not of my liking. m500 costs $130 less [hifi-experience.com], but gets hot, has a weaker amp and no Bluetooth. Are there any other differences that I am not aware of?


----------



## Verst

Does anyone have any experience with the SP200 + M200 for these cans: ZMF Auteur, Aeolus / Focal Clears / Hifiman Arya?

Trying to upgrade from my HD600 and want to see if anyones using the same set-ups I have in mind


----------



## 340519

Verst said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the SP200 + M200 for these cans: ZMF Auteur, Aeolus / Focal Clears / Hifiman Arya?
> 
> Trying to upgrade from my HD600 and want to see if anyones using the same set-ups I have in mind


Yes I use the sp200 with the clears.


----------



## StarTreker

Lets just say that the high quality will be quite clear, when using the SP200 HEHE. I've watched many reviews on this amp, including the famous Zeos lol. And everybody talks about how the SP200 reduces the noise floor using that delicious THX technology, and allows us to hear sound the way it was meant to sound. Then when you add that delicious clean sound, to an awesome amplifier circuit, no wonder people are popping a nut with bass heavy cans! 

There is a guy on our forum, who's also on Youtube, and posted a video, where we get to hear the way the HD800's sound using the SP200 amp, its that new binaural recording technology, that literally puts us in the cans, and in the back of our seats! From what I could tell, it made those open backed cans sound mighty good. But I'm a basshead, so I strive for the ultimate shake my head power of a bass heavy closed back can, which is why I got into the JVC SZ series when I first came to this site. Now I'm rocking the V-Moda LP2's.

So you might be wondering, why did I get the SP200 just to power a set of V-Moda's, there not hard to drive. Well, you might think that until you know where I got my volume level on my Fiio A5 amp, which is the most powerful portable amp that Fiio makes. I have to run my volume at 3/4 in order to make it loud enough, cause of course the V-Moda is a 32-OHM can. At 32-OHM, the Fiio A5 produces 800MW of power, which is technically enough to run these can's. 

However, running any amp at 3/4 or more is generally considered a bad thing to do, has to do with lessening the life of the amp circuit, something like that anyways. I only wish I could have gotten the SP200 back when my JVC can's were still intact, would have been interesting to hear pumping a few watts into them lol. So with a lower noise floor, nearly 0 distortion, clean amp powering, the SP200 is gotta be a great amp, I know I will love it!


----------



## XeNoNF50

Verst said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the SP200 + M200 for these cans: ZMF Auteur, Aeolus / Focal Clears / Hifiman Arya?
> 
> Trying to upgrade from my HD600 and want to see if anyones using the same set-ups I have in mind



I'm currently using it with Focal Utopia and Stellia - currently only while I wait for my tube hybrid to arrive from China but I'll be honest, this works well, sounds great on low gain with volume dial at 10am on Stellia and 11am on Utopia.


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> Lets just say that the high quality will be quite clear, when using the SP200 HEHE. I've watched many reviews on this amp, including the famous Zeos lol. And everybody talks about how the SP200 reduces the noise floor using that delicious THX technology, and allows us to hear sound the way it was meant to sound. Then when you add that delicious clean sound, to an awesome amplifier circuit, no wonder people are popping a nut with bass heavy cans!
> 
> There is a guy on our forum, who's also on Youtube, and posted a video, where we get to hear the way the HD800's sound using the SP200 amp, its that new binaural recording technology, that literally puts us in the cans, and in the back of our seats! From what I could tell, it made those open backed cans sound mighty good. But I'm a basshead, so I strive for the ultimate shake my head power of a bass heavy closed back can, which is why I got into the JVC SZ series when I first came to this site. Now I'm rocking the V-Moda LP2's.
> 
> ...


I agree, it sounds like you're going to have some fun with it!


----------



## StarTreker

Hey, as long as I can get them loud and proud at no greater then 50% volume on low gain, I will be very pleased. If I have to push it to high gain I will, but something tells me this amp has the cahoonas to get it done in low. The first bit of fun is just feeling its odd shaped contours, it will probably remind me of a strange date I had once. Then I will play with those toggle switches, I gotta say, I am really impressed that they went that direction, instead of a selector switch on the 789, thank God! 

The replacement volume knob won't get here till the 30th their predicting because it comes from China. But in the sellers defense, that was the fastest shipping out of a product from an Ebay store I have ever seen, for a product coming from China. It was shipped out in less then 24-hours! Thats why I pick sellers that have ratings between 99.8% to 100%. The day I get to install that new volume knob, will be like the day I received my first kiss. Only, this amp will be so much cooler, and last longer too!


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> Hey, as long as I can get them loud and proud at no greater then 50% volume on low gain, I will be very pleased. If I have to push it to high gain I will, but something tells me this amp has the cahoonas to get it done in low. The first bit of fun is just feeling its odd shaped contours, it will probably remind me of a strange date I had once. Then I will play with those toggle switches, I gotta say, I am really impressed that they went that direction, instead of a selector switch on the 789, thank God!
> 
> The replacement volume knob won't get here till the 30th their predicting because it comes from China. But in the sellers defense, that was the fastest shipping out of a product from an Ebay store I have ever seen, for a product coming from China. It was shipped out in less then 24-hours! Thats why I pick sellers that have ratings between 99.8% to 100%. The day I get to install that new volume knob, will be like the day I received my first kiss. Only, this amp will be so much cooler, and last longer too!


Man, I cant get it past 9 o'clock on low gain on the usb audio player pro with tidal bit perfect volume fixed output on the XCs. The sp200 has some serious power.


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> Hey, as long as I can get them loud and proud at no greater then 50% volume on low gain, I will be very pleased. If I have to push it to high gain I will, but something tells me this amp has the cahoonas to get it done in low. The first bit of fun is just feeling its odd shaped contours, it will probably remind me of a strange date I had once. Then I will play with those toggle switches, I gotta say, I am really impressed that they went that direction, instead of a selector switch on the 789, thank God!
> 
> The replacement volume knob won't get here till the 30th their predicting because it comes from China. But in the sellers defense, that was the fastest shipping out of a product from an Ebay store I have ever seen, for a product coming from China. It was shipped out in less then 24-hours! Thats why I pick sellers that have ratings between 99.8% to 100%. The day I get to install that new volume knob, will be like the day I received my first kiss. Only, this amp will be so much cooler, and last longer too!


I ordered the same knob this morning and it has already shipped!


----------



## Verst

XeNoNF50 said:


> I'm currently using it with Focal Utopia and Stellia - currently only while I wait for my tube hybrid to arrive from China but I'll be honest, this works well, sounds great on low gain with volume dial at 10am on Stellia and 11am on Utopia.


Nice to hear that they work great on TOTL cans too... now just gotta decide which pair I should get


----------



## tim0chan

Verst said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the SP200 + M200 for these cans: ZMF Auteur, Aeolus / Focal Clears / Hifiman Arya?
> 
> Trying to upgrade from my HD600 and want to see if anyones using the same set-ups I have in mind


If U want a direct upgrade from the hd600, the auteur would be the absolute best choice. Aeolus if you want something baking the lines of hd650 upgrade. Focal clears sound metallic in comparison with the hd600. I have no experience with the hifimans


----------



## Forsaked

Let's what this is all about, i just ordered my pair.


----------



## Shane D

For the Canucks on the forum, I will be posting my SP200 on CAM in the next day or two. Message me if you are interested.


----------



## StarTreker

Shane D said:


> For the Canucks on the forum, I will be posting my SP200 on CAM in the next day or two. Message me if you are interested.




Dude, I have an addiction to delicious audio. Of course I will want to see your video on your SP200! Make sure you post a link to it in this thread so I can check it out.


----------



## Shane D

StarTreker said:


> Dude, I have an addiction to delicious audio. Of course I will want to see your video on your SP200! Make sure you post a link to it in this thread so I can check it out.



It won't be a video. CAM just refers to Canuck Audio Mart. Our options for selling used audio gear in Canada are pretty much limited to 1) Kijiji, Canada's Craigs List (works for local deals) and 2) Canuck Audio Mart, reaches all across Canada.


----------



## Cevisi

I heard the batch after januar doesn't have chanel imbalance is that true ?


----------



## 340519 (May 24, 2020)

Shane D said:


> It won't be a video. CAM just refers to Canuck Audio Mart. Our options for selling used audio gear in Canada are pretty much limited to 1) Kijiji, Canada's Craigs List (works for local deals) and 2) Canuck Audio Mart, reaches all across Canada.


I use canuck regularly for over a decade. It's the only way I buy or sell gear in Canada.

I just sold my 800S and LCD X through it, and bought my LCD 4s.


----------



## StarTreker

dmdm said:


> I use canuck regularly for over a decade. It's the only way I buy or sell gear in Canada.
> 
> I just sold my 800S and LCD X through it, and bought my LCD 4s.



Yo! So, out of curiosity, can you tell us, in your opinion, what is the sound difference between the 800S, and the LCD 4's?

PS: My amp comes tomorrow on Monday, I am super stoked!


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> Yo! So, out of curiosity, can you tell us, in your opinion, what is the sound difference between the 800S, and the LCD 4's?
> 
> PS: My amp comes tomorrow on Monday, I am super stoked!


The 800S never engaged me or motivated me to listen to them. I just found the 800 and S too thin for me, whereas everytime I fire up the 4s I sit back and say to myself 'wow these sound absolutely beautiful.' And I cannot wait to listen to them again for hours. I luckily got 3 hours with them today. I never did that with the 800 or S, as they were always just meh.


----------



## StarTreker

Glad to hear that your enjoying your LCD 4's that much! Thats how it was with me and my JVC's, I just felt that bass vibrate my head and I was in heaven lol. My V-Moda's will do the same thing if I crank them up enough, those 50mm drivers have got some power. 

You know, I chose the right time to buy a new amp. You know what my Fiio amp has been doing? No, I haven't told you yet. HEHE - Everytime I turn off my TV and go to bed, after I wake up hours later, turn the TV back on, I hear no sound out of my amp. I literally have to turn the amp off, disconnect the USB power cable, then plug the cable back in, then turn the amp back on, in order to get sound again. I swear this amp is possessed! Its only a year old and its already foooooooked. 

I will tell you something else, why hasn't Fiio made any competing amps in so long? They had the Fiio A3 for years, but thats a gutless amp. Then they came up with the Fiio A5, which is already years old tech now, has more power, but still can't compete against a desktop amp. Where's the new Fiio Amps? Ohhhhh, they don't make any anymore, its all about Dac/Amps now. Well, I tell you what, I am about to give my Fiio the shaft.

When my S.M.S.L SP200 comes in, it will be the new dominator, and its gonna give the Fiio A5 a good kick in the arse. HAHA


----------



## 340519

I'm listening to the sp200 with the xcs right now and it kicks some definite ass.


----------



## Anton333

I like my sp200. My audio devices - Cayin iDac6 Mk2, SP200, Shure 1840, OPPO PM-2. I know that good cable change sound. I use balanced KLOTZ AES/EBU & Mic - digital cable, but in my system it sounds incredible. I use good power cables - wireworld. I hear all cables, even USB. My usb cable is Oyaide Continental 5S. It is funny... SP200 is cheaper than my usb or power cables...


----------



## 340519

Anton333 said:


> I like my sp200. My audio devices - Cayin iDac6 Mk2, SP200, Shure 1840, OPPO PM-2. I know that good cable change sound. I use balanced KLOTZ AES/EBU & Mic - digital cable, but in my system it sounds incredible. I use good power cables - wireworld. I hear all cables, even USB. My usb cable is Oyaide Continental 5S. It is funny... SP200 is cheaper than my usb or power cables...


I've spent far too much on cables and I'm done with it. My speaker wire alone was 3k CAD for the golden ears. No more of the madness.


----------



## Anton333

With shure 1840 i use saec 7n copper and with oppo pm-2 - oyaide 102ssc


----------



## StarTreker

dmdm said:


> I've spent far too much on cables and I'm done with it. My speaker wire alone was 3k CAD for the golden ears. No more of the madness.



I almost stumbled upon the high end power cable scene. Because I am a mechanic by trade and have a background in DC electrical systems, I admit I was skeptical about how an amp that has a transformer, that draws less then 1-amp, needs a 10-gauge cable, that is usually used for drawing up to 20-amps. But of course, the people who are in this scene, never say that the amp requires more power then its original cable can provide. They always say, that the original cable provides less clean power, and introduces noise. 

Then they provide a graph, showing the sine wave on an expensive 30,000 dollar oscilloscope, a piece of tech that mostly lab technicians have, cause most home owners, couldn't afford a piece of tech that expensive! So they show that sine wave right, and they say, see, this is a bad wave, this means unclean power, so you need a 300 dollar power cable to clean that up. So, thats when I went looking on Amazon, and saw all those pretty 10-gauge cables going for 300 and up.

But then I thought to myself, wait a minute, a cable is just a conductor of power, how is a cable going to condition the power source? Yes, a cable can be specially shielded against EMI and other forms of interference, including electrical fields generated by other cables near it. But at the end of the day, a cable is just a cable, a conductor of electricity. If the power entering your home is that unclean, then nothing you do with a cable is going to fix that.

You would need what is called a power conditioner, which is a unit that cleans up the power that is entering your home, since the power company is not able to do it, or cares to do it. Power conditioners cost over a thousand dollars, PS Audio sells them for big money. Infact, I watched a video from Paul, the co-founder of PS Audio. His personal opinion, is that while conditioners do work, he feels that they remove too much to clean the power. He sited the example of when a guitar string is plucked, and you can hear the echo return of said sound, bouncing back from the wall of the room that guitar is in. If you use a conditioner, it removes the echo, and thus makes the sound-stage less engaging.

Suffice to say, I didn't get fooled for long when it came to the high end power cables, make for better sound quality scene lol. And DMDM, I like you dude, so I am glad to hear that you are not going to waste your money on 3K cables anymore!


----------



## 340519 (May 25, 2020)

StarTreker said:


> I almost stumbled upon the high end power cable scene. Because I am a mechanic by trade and have a background in DC electrical systems, I admit I was skeptical about how an amp that has a transformer, that draws less then 1-amp, needs a 10-gauge cable, that is usually used for drawing up to 20-amps. But of course, the people who are in this scene, never say that the amp requires more power then its original cable can provide. They always say, that the original cable provides less clean power, and introduces noise.
> 
> Then they provide a graph, showing the sine wave on an expensive 30,000 dollar oscilloscope, a piece of tech that mostly lab technicians have, cause most home owners, couldn't afford a piece of tech that expensive! So they show that sine wave right, and they say, see, this is a bad wave, this means unclean power, so you need a 300 dollar power cable to clean that up. So, thats when I went looking on Amazon, and saw all those pretty 10-gauge cables going for 300 and up.
> 
> ...


Thanks, and I actually have 2 kimber pk10 $500 power cords that I bought back when I was buying expensive cables, oh and a pricey shunyata power cord as well.  Well, they do look pretty lol.


----------



## StarTreker

dmdm said:


> Thanks, and I actually have 2 kimber pk10 $500 power cords that I bought back when I was buying expensive cables, oh and a pricey shunyata power cord as well.  Well, they do look pretty lol.



Yes they do look pretty, which is why I almost bought one of them power cables lol. I saw that almost purple color, with blue pinstriping, braided cable, and I was like, I want! And then my logical side kicked in, and it was like a Vulcan saying. To buy a 300-dollar cable, purely for its looks, is illogical. LOL

So my amp comes today, its out for delivery, can't wait till it gets here. I will open that box like its freaking Christmas. And before I even have a chance to try it out, I am going to take delicious pictures of the amp, then I will hook it up and make sure its not defective.


----------



## Forsaked

My amp was delivered today and i am still at work. 
But my DAC is on the road and won't arrive before tomorrow. 
It's just a waiting game.


----------



## StarTreker

Forsaked said:


> My amp was delivered today and i am still at work.
> But my DAC is on the road and won't arrive before tomorrow.
> It's just a waiting game.




Mine arrived yesterday, wrote my own post on it. So, you purchased a DAC as well, which DAC? I assume your setup is at home since you purchased a desktop amp. When you get a chance, don't forget to take pictures and share. I think you will love your new amp, I know I do! Here is a picture of mine, you can find more pictures in my thread on this amp.






Ahhh yes, I know the waiting game for sure. When a trucker has a 80,000 pound fully loaded trailer in the back, he's waiting too. He says, "come on old Betsy you can do it LOL. I thank all the truckers who are bringing us all our delicious audio gear that we love so much, if it were not for them, we'd have nothing.


----------



## Forsaked

StarTreker said:


> Mine arrived yesterday, wrote my own post on it. So, you purchased a DAC as well, which DAC? I assume your setup is at home since you purchased a desktop amp. When you get a chance, don't forget to take pictures and share. I think you will love your new amp, I know I do! Here is a picture of mine, you can find more pictures in my thread on this amp.



I ordered the SMSL M200, so i can stack it, which gonna arrive today.
Got the SP200 yesterday and its a small but pretty device, i will take pictures when the stack is complete.


----------



## Forsaked (May 27, 2020)

It is here, this is both on my bedsite table.






I will take better pictures on the final position, when i have daylight on the weekend.


----------



## StarTreker (May 27, 2020)

Forsaked said:


> It is here, this is both on my bedsite table.
> 
> 
> 
> I will take better pictures on the final position, when i have daylight on the weekend.



Hell yeah, thats what I am talking about! I freaking love the sexy blue LED display of your DAC. It looks like its telling me that your in DSD mode with your USB link. I'm not sure what 256 is, could that be the sample rate, or is it just a wickedly high volume level in the pre-amp? If I remember correctly, pushing on the volume knob turns it on/off and makes selections? How is the movement of that knob in your opinion, in comparison to the volume knob on the amp?

Seeing that fully insulated connector in your amp, tells me your headphone must have a native 1/4 connector. As you can see from my picture, mine is a 1/8 native, so with the adapter and everything, pretty exposed, but not a big deal really. Its obvious that you didn't use flash when you took your picture, so I am amazed at how clear the picture is, wonder if you used a tripod? And yes, Photography is another hobby of mine lol. I see your running RCA cables because of the mode you selected, and your in low gain.

Thanks for sharing the picture, I love pictures, and seeing people's setups, gives me something to do lol.


----------



## Forsaked (May 27, 2020)

StarTreker said:


> Hell yeah, thats what I am talking about! I freaking love the sexy blue LED display of your DAC. It looks like its telling me that your in DSD mode with your USB link. I'm not sure what 256 is, could that be the sample rate, or is it just a wickedly high volume level in the pre-amp? If I remember correctly, pushing on the volume knob turns it on/off and makes selections? How is the movement of that knob in your opinion, in comparison to the volume knob on the amp?
> 
> Seeing that fully insulated connector in your amp, tells me your headphone must have a native 1/4 connector. As you can see from my picture, mine is a 1/8 native, so with the adapter and everything, pretty exposed, but not a big deal really. Its obvious that you didn't use flash when you took your picture, so I am amazed at how clear the picture is, wonder if you used a tripod? And yes, Photography is another hobby of mine lol. I see your running RCA cables because of the mode you selected, and your in low gain.
> 
> Thanks for sharing the picture, I love pictures, and seeing people's setups, gives me something to do lol.



The 256 indicates that it is using quad-rate DSD which equals the 256 times the sample rate of an CD, so it's 11,2MHz sample rate.
It was the Sympthonic Suit of AKIRA from Geinoh Yamashirogumi, which is a "small" 11.1GB album.

To the knob, yes when you push the know short you skip between the inputs, when you double push it you get nto the menu with the filters, audio color, brightness, etc.
The knob is not free spinning like the SP200 one, it has stages/engagements.

The headphone i am using atm is my old AKG K601, since my Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro is still on it's way to me.

The picture was taken with my Huawei P30 Pro (Smartphone) without a tripod, it just has a awesome low light sensor.

Actually i use both, on the picture is was still on RCA, but now i switched to XLR, see below.


----------



## StarTreker

Forsaked said:


> The 256 indicates that it is using quad-rate DSD which equals the 256 times the sample rate of an CD, so it's 11,2MHz sample rate.
> It was the Sympthonic Suit of AKIRA from Geinoh Yamashirogumi, which is a "small" 11.1GB album.
> 
> To the knob, yes when you push the know short you skip between the inputs, when you double push it you get nto the menu with the filters, audio color, brightness, etc.
> ...



Thanks for the explanation on the DAC unit. One of the things I like about it from your review, is that its simplified. There isn't a remote with a crap-load of buttons on it, where its overwhelmingly daunting, trying to figure out what everything does and how to work it. I've seen the overwhelming ones like that on Zeo's channel, and I am like, NO THANK YOU! LOL - So great to knew that the M200 is simplified and easier to use, also the price is about in line with the SP200 as well, which I find interesting.

How have you liked your old AKG K601 can? I'm going out on a limb here and going to guess that the reason you bought your Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO, is cause your looking to get better sound. One thing I learned on Zeo's channel, is that different types of headphones react differently with amps. When he was reviewing variations in Schiit amps, that was the case with a few headphones he tested between two different amps.

I sware by those premium RCA cables that don't have a premium price tag on them. They are nice and thick, quality shielding, quality jacket, and quality gold plated connectors.





Word of warning about Huawei phones, the American government found out that they were the worst phone in the world when it came to snooping. The company who makes the phones actively spies on people, and its so bad, the American government had to put actual sanctaines  against them. Not trying to get political in here, just letting you know that the phone are dangerous. Continued use of that phone is up to you buddy, just warning you about it. 

Nice to see it can take a fairly decent pic for a phone though. I myself can't stand phone camera's if I am trying to get a really good picture. I use a 20 mega pixel Canon SX 620HS, and yes its a pocket camera. But if you know what you are doing, use the proper settings, proper lighting, tripod use, you can take some pictures that are practically good as any DSLR. When taking pics of things that light up, like the power LED on the amp, or the stereo display on my equalizer box, I put the flash into slow syncro, that way the flash don't wash on the displays lol.


----------



## Forsaked (May 27, 2020)

StarTreker said:


> Thanks for the explanation on the DAC unit. One of the things I like about it from your review, is that its simplified. There isn't a remote with a crap-load of buttons on it, where its overwhelmingly daunting, trying to figure out what everything does and how to work it. I've seen the overwhelming ones like that on Zeo's channel, and I am like, NO THANK YOU! LOL - So great to knew that the M200 is simplified and easier to use, also the price is about in line with the SP200 as well, which I find interesting.
> 
> How have you liked your old AKG K601 can? I'm going out on a limb here and going to guess that the reason you bought your Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO, is cause your looking to get better sound. One thing I learned on Zeo's channel, is that different types of headphones react differently with amps. When he was reviewing variations in Schiit amps, that was the case with a few headphones he tested between two different amps.
> 
> ...



The M200 has a remote, which can do everything the knob can.

My old AKGs now get's used the first time in years, since most of the time i used my Headset on the PC.
I buyed them more then a decade ago, to use with my AV receiver to listen to music or watch movies in the night, without shaking everybody out of the bed.
Most of the time i watch movies now on my laptop (thanks Netflix) instead in my movie/music room, which seems to be better for the envoirment.
Thats why i use a headphone DAC/AMP now instead of a 2kW monster of an AV receiver together with the 1.2kw sub.
Only if i really want to get the cinema feeling again, i use this setup or when u cleanup the flat.

Yes, i wanted better headphones to pair with this dac/amp, but i can tell you that the AKGs also sound different and better with this combo then before.

The RCA and XLR cables i use, are both Mogami 2534 cables with Neutrik plugs which are around 48$ (RCA) and 65$ (XLR) each pair.
This is not cheap but also not to expensive.

About the Huawei phone i won't debate, since i took several actions to look down home calling features, which most are not by Huawei but Google and other companys.
This would pretty fast get political, since i am a IT/CyberSec/Privacy-Guy, so we should stop talking about this subject.


----------



## StarTreker

Yep, I used to be a home theater person myself, got a 5.1 surround sound system and everything. But 5-years ago I got into listening headphones, and I loved it so much, I went on a search to buy a better headphone, cause I was using a gaming headset 5-years ago. Thats when I got into the JVC SZ series with the 1000E's. I freaking love that headphone, but as with all who own the SZ series of cans, the hinges eventually snap, its an absolute certainty that they will, its more of a question as to when. The SZ series was discontinued by JVC because their morons, who have dedicated their company to bluetooth now, cause they think thats where the market is going, well maybe to joggers, but most certainly not audiophiles like us lol.

I bought my V-Moda LP2's a month ago and I freaking love them! But one thing you learn about 32-OHM headphones, they are harder to drive then you might think, and portable amps like the Fiio A5, just don't quite have enough power to make V-Moda's come alive. Once I plugged them into my new S.M.S.L SP200, holy molly did the can's open up. So I started playing the 2014 game Alien Isolation again, because I knew that game had an awesome soundscape, and that game with these headphones, and this amp, WOW, such an immersive game, I am hearing things I've never heard before. And things which I did hear before with the old amp, now I hear even better with the new amp. Its all about that clean power. The clarity really widens up with the SP200, as I am sure you've noticed yourself.

Now, I got to admit, you folks out there keep peeking my curiosity with all these talks on cables, so I had to look up them Mogami's, WOW beautiful cables, and reminds me of Ampthenol's, which are known as The Worlds Best Cables, with Gothom tag. If I were to switch to those cables, I would have to buy two pairs, a 6-foot pair, and a 10-foot pair, would run me roughly 80 bucks to do that, can't afford it. I am pretty satisfied with my Monoprice cables though. But thanks for sharing what you use, super cool. Also, hopefully your speaker amp isn't class A, because if it is, just watch your power meter spinning lol.


----------



## Minhcao

Just wanted to share my setup. I have a raspberry pi running picoreplayer so I can stream tidal. The raspberry pi is configured to output usb audio to the M200. I've got the SP200 connected via rca at the moment but sometimes I use XLR. 
I'm very impressed and super happy with this setup. The audio quality is amazing even though it's probably only 16/44.1 through tidal streaming.
I have a large collection of flac but since using tidal I've found I don't listen to local files that often as tidal already has most of my collection anyway. Granted it's not hi-res but it's so convenient to stream now and my old ears probably can't tell the difference anyway.
Happy listening everyone!


----------



## Cevisi

Minhcao said:


> Just wanted to share my setup. I have a raspberry pi running picoreplayer so I can stream tidal. The raspberry pi is configured to output usb audio to the M200. I've got the SP200 connected via rca at the moment but sometimes I use XLR.
> I'm very impressed and super happy with this setup. The audio quality is amazing even though it's probably only 16/44.1 through tidal streaming.
> I have a large collection of flac but since using tidal I've found I don't listen to local files that often as tidal already has most of my collection anyway. Granted it's not hi-res but it's so convenient to stream now and my old ears probably can't tell the difference anyway.
> Happy listening everyone!


Do you notice any channel imbalance ?


----------



## Minhcao

No channel imbalance. Both left and right have exactly the same volume.


----------



## MalinYamato (May 30, 2020)

NOP


----------



## StarTreker

Minhcao said:


> Just wanted to share my setup. I have a raspberry pi running picoreplayer so I can stream tidal. The raspberry pi is configured to output usb audio to the M200. I've got the SP200 connected via rca at the moment but sometimes I use XLR.
> I'm very impressed and super happy with this setup. The audio quality is amazing even though it's probably only 16/44.1 through tidal streaming.
> I have a large collection of flac but since using tidal I've found I don't listen to local files that often as tidal already has most of my collection anyway. Granted it's not hi-res but it's so convenient to stream now and my old ears probably can't tell the difference anyway.
> Happy listening everyone!



Very nice looking setup. I see your rocking the Sennheiser HD660's, and you got your SMSL M200 DAC and SMSL SP200 Amp. I am not surprised that it sounds good at all. Hopefully, with the volume at 50% like that on the amp, your HD 660's get super loud. If not, maybe raze the DAC volume to -10. Just make sure to not push your amp beyond 50%, so as to keep the life of the amp circuit happy. Beautiful setup, love it!


----------



## Minhcao

StarTreker said:


> Very nice looking setup. I see your rocking the Sennheiser HD660's, and you got your SMSL M200 DAC and SMSL SP200 Amp. I am not surprised that it sounds good at all. Hopefully, with the volume at 50% like that on the amp, your HD 660's get super loud. If not, maybe raze the DAC volume to -10. Just make sure to not push your amp beyond 50%, so as to keep the life of the amp circuit happy. Beautiful setup, love it!


Thanks for the tip. Yes I think I'll raise the DAC volume and lower the amp. As you say it'll preserve the electronics.


----------



## StarTreker

For those who are not following my thread, but are following this one, I am posting these pictures here as well. My new golden aluminum volume knob arrived, it looks wicked sick, works awesome too!


----------



## Cevisi

StarTreker said:


> For those who are not following my thread, but are following this one, I am posting these pictures here as well. My new golden aluminum volume knob arrived, it looks wicked sick, works awesome too!


looks nice does it also come in black ?


----------



## 340519

Forsaked said:


> It is here, this is both on my bedsite table.
> 
> 
> 
> I will take better pictures on the final position, when i have daylight on the weekend.


Simply outstanding.


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> For those who are not following my thread, but are following this one, I am posting these pictures here as well. My new golden aluminum volume knob arrived, it looks wicked sick, works awesome too!


Beautiful!


----------



## StarTreker

Cevisi said:


> looks nice does it also come in black ?



Yes it does come in black, here is the black version...
Black Volume Knob

This is the silver knob if someone wants that...
Silver Volume Knob

This is a blue knob version...
Blue Volume Knob

And for those who like it red as can be...
Red Volume Knob

And this is of course the gold volume knob that I have...
Gold Volume Knob


----------



## StarTreker

dmdm said:


> Beautiful!



Thanks bro!

Your's should be delivered probably by tomorrow I'm guessing, since you ordered yours a day later. I can't wait to see your pics of your new golden volume knob on your SP200!!!


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> Yes it does come in black, here is the black version...
> Black Volume Knob
> 
> This is the silver knob if someone wants that...
> ...


Awesome getting a silver! I already ordered a black one.


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> Thanks bro!
> 
> Your's should be delivered probably by tomorrow I'm guessing, since you ordered yours a day later. I can't wait to see your pics of your new golden volume knob on your SP200!!!


Actually it is black.


----------



## StarTreker

dmdm said:


> Actually it is black.



I don't care if its rainbow color, I still want to see it on there lol. The only thing with the color of black, is it requires more light for the camera to pick it up well, but I just know its gonna look good on there DMDM!

Ya, I thought I should post the links to all the color of knobs that CJ sells, just incase. Hope you like the silver, although, I am sure the black and golden knobs will look best on the SMSL SP200.  But I am still curious to see how the silver does look on it though.

I gotta tell ya, when that golden knob came in the mail, and I got that knob installed and looked at that thing, it really brightened up my day. I haven't been doing well. Between lack of sleep issues causing physical stress, then there is this whole business with both covid-19, and all the other major issues happening in our country that just has had be utterly depressed. Crazy times we live in. But I'm feeling better now. Its funny how a 2-dollar part can do so much, but its true lol.


----------



## cirodts

better a 325e grado or an rs2 with sp200?


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> I don't care if its rainbow color, I still want to see it on there lol. The only thing with the color of black, is it requires more light for the camera to pick it up well, but I just know its gonna look good on there DMDM!
> 
> Ya, I thought I should post the links to all the color of knobs that CJ sells, just incase. Hope you like the silver, although, I am sure the black and golden knobs will look best on the SMSL SP200.  But I am still curious to see how the silver does look on it though.
> 
> I gotta tell ya, when that golden knob came in the mail, and I got that knob installed and looked at that thing, it really brightened up my day. I haven't been doing well. Between lack of sleep issues causing physical stress, then there is this whole business with both covid-19, and all the other major issues happening in our country that just has had be utterly depressed. Crazy times we live in. But I'm feeling better now. Its funny how a 2-dollar part can do so much, but its true lol.


I'm still waiting on the volume knob, but I'll take a pic as soon as it's on there.


----------



## StarTreker

dmdm said:


> I'm still waiting on the volume knob, but I'll take a pic as soon as it's on there.



I was wondering where you been lol. Looks like shipping is slow for you guys over there. I bought a RapcoHorizon 10 foot 1/8 to 1/4 TRS AUX cable from Front End Audio, took them a few days to custom make the cable and ship it out to me. Its coming Fedex, and practically as quickly as it shipped out, Fedex was rescheduling the delivery date. I chose ground shipping cause 2-day was like freaking 20-bucks, nobody sane is gonna pay that to ship out a cable, so ground was like 11 bucks, so its gonna take a good solid week more to get here. I understand bro, the wait it real lol.


----------



## Cevisi

Did somone played around with the sound color modes ?

Zeos sayed the sc3 sound warm and smooth is that right. i have alot of bright sounding gear that could benefit from that


----------



## Shane D (Jun 11, 2020)

cirodts said:


> better a 325e grado or an rs2 with sp200?



Probably the RS2e. The SR325e is a pretty bright headphone (my first Grado) and the SP200 will bring that out strongly. I don't like the SP200 with bright/brightish headphones. I have never heard the RS2e's but have heard lots of nice things about them. I went from the SR325e's to the GH2's.


----------



## StarTreker

Shane D said:


> Probably the RS2e. The SR325e is a pretty bright headphone (my first Grado) and the SP200 will bring that out strongly. I don't like the SP200 with bright/brightish headphones. I have never heard the the RS2e's but have heard lots of nice things about them. I went from the SR325e's to the GH2's.



The thing about the SP200, is that after it reduces noise floor, it does straight up amplification. Unlike tube amps which color the sound and provide a warm tone, which is why people like them for bright sounding headphones, the SP200 amplifies those high frequencies with no coloring. If you have a warm sounding headphone, like most closed backs, the SP200 will usually be a perfect match, unless you have a 600-OHM headphone, then your gonna need a bigger amp lol.


----------



## Shane D

StarTreker said:


> The thing about the SP200, is that after it reduces noise floor, it does straight up amplification. Unlike tube amps which color the sound and provide a warm tone, which is why people like them for bright sounding headphones, the SP200 amplifies those high frequencies with no coloring. If you have a warm sounding headphone, like most closed backs, the SP200 will usually be a perfect match, unless you have a 600-OHM headphone, then your gonna need a bigger amp lol.



Doesn't really work for me. I pulled it out of my rotation yesterday in my latest "redesign". It will be going up for sale. As the saying goes, we all hear differently. It's funny that I usually fall in and out of love with amps. I never loved this one, but I always respected it due to the measurements. I guess I am just not the analytical type.


----------



## cirodts

Which headphones between focal clear, grado rs2 and grado sr 325e best matches the sp200?


----------



## StarTreker

Shane D said:


> Doesn't really work for me. I pulled it out of my rotation yesterday in my latest "redesign". It will be going up for sale. As the saying goes, we all hear differently. It's funny that I usually fall in and out of love with amps. I never loved this one, but I always respected it due to the measurements. I guess I am just not the analytical type.



Whats up Shane?

I agree with what you said, we all hear differently. And because of that, we all have different tastes. I think I am the analytical type, I like to hear all the different nuances. Its amazing how much detail you can get out of the SP200, but like you said, its not for everyone.


----------



## Shane D

cirodts said:


> Which headphones between focal clear, grado rs2 and grado sr 325e best matches the sp200?



The Focal Clear is quite a jump up from the other two, quality and price wise. I am not sure that an SP200 will make a Clear sound it's best, but you could enjoy 'phones as you move up the food chain. Personally, I LOVE my Elex's. Have you heard any Grado's yet? I only ask because they really are a love it or hate it headphone. I love them, but many don't.


----------



## XeNoNF50

StarTreker said:


> The thing about the SP200, is that after it reduces noise floor, it does straight up amplification. Unlike tube amps which color the sound and provide a warm tone, which is why people like them for bright sounding headphones, the SP200 amplifies those high frequencies with no coloring. If you have a warm sounding headphone, like most closed backs, the SP200 will usually be a perfect match, unless you have a 600-OHM headphone, then your gonna need a bigger amp lol.



Yep, this, basically. I really like my Focal Stellia with the SP200 but needed an amp with tubes for my Focal Utopia which needed a slight bit more warmth.


----------



## The Dude Abides

A couple of questions for owners in the choice of mains cable you are using and likewise your selection of XLR interconnect DAC to amp?

What got me started on the mains cable was that here in UK the supplied two pin EU mains cable needs a three pin EU TO UK adapter. No problem got one. Now the amazing difference was when I switched that out for a DIY  built shielded and fused (brown, neutral, earth) mains cable ity Watergate 320i ordinary UK mains plug. Would be better right? Ohhhh no! That simple supplied original with its adapter sounds way better, clears wooly veiled burning in sound. So I thought I'd see what you guys are using and what your experiences have been?

Like wise I stick with Mogami XLR Pro audio  and may upgrade to the Bob Katz recommended Mogami AES shortly. How about you?


----------



## StarTreker

The Dude Abides said:


> A couple of questions for owners in the choice of mains cable you are using and likewise your selection of XLR interconnect DAC to amp?
> 
> What got me started on the mains cable was that here in UK the supplied two pin EU mains cable needs a three pin EU TO UK adapter. No problem got one. Now the amazing difference was when I switched that out for a DIY  built shielded and fused (brown, neutral, earth) mains cable ity Watergate 320i ordinary UK mains plug. Would be better right? Ohhhh no! That simple supplied original with its adapter sounds way better, clears wooly veiled burning in sound. So I thought I'd see what you guys are using and what your experiences have been?
> 
> Like wise I stick with Mogami XLR Pro audio  and may upgrade to the Bob Katz recommended Mogami AES shortly. How about you?




Hey, its the dude, you know the dude, he's that guy that everybody knows. All hail Jeff Bridges, Tron could have no better. 

I think its important to not get too wrapped up into super expensive mains cables. As long as the mains cable is the right gauge to handle the power requirements, and as long as the mains cable is properly shielded against EMI, it should be fine. I'm not sure about where you live, but in the USA, amps require a grounding, which is why there is a 3rd pin for us. And regarding which power cable I am using, I am just using the one that came with the amp, its working out perfectly, I am not hearing any interference whatsoever from the power coming in. 

Now, in regards to what cables I have bringing the sound to the amp, that would be Monoprice RCA cables, thick jacket, EMI shielding, 22-gauge conductors, and gold plated connectors. Currently, I am temporarily using a cheap Ivanky AUX cable to connect my V-Moda headphones to the S.M.S.L SP200 amp. However, I ordered a RapcoHorizon TRS AUX 1/8 to 1/4 10 foot cable, they are professional audio cables, same as Mogami. Only difference is, RapcoHorizon has been reviewed to do a better job at terminating their AUX cables then Mogami, plus they cost a lot less. 

I don't have a bunch of professional gear in my home, so the only thing I officially have that uses XLR, is my condensor microphone. Professionals love using XLR for several reasons that I know of. XLR connectors lock in, so not easily to be pulled out. XLR is often used for balanced connections for cleaner sound. And of course generally XLR allows you to get louder. But honestly, the SP200 gets loud enough for most cans, just throw that sucker on high gain, push that volume knob to 50%, and you will be like, OMG I am going to die. LOL!


----------



## cirodts

sp200 should connect it in rca or xlr


----------



## StarTreker

cirodts said:


> sp200 should connect it in rca or xlr



It does. But in regards to transparency, I feel it important to note, that the XRL connections are not balanced. They are there for purely convenience of hookup reasons.


----------



## cirodts

So it is better to connect in pure unbalanced rca.
Are the drop and monolith thx balanced or not?


----------



## StarTreker

cirodts said:


> So it is better to connect in pure unbalanced rca.
> Are the drop and monolith thx balanced or not?



Well, I do know that the Massdrop 789, while a tad bit older THX tech, is fully balanced.


----------



## tim0chan

StarTreker said:


> Well, I do know that the Massdrop 789, while a tad bit older THX tech, is fully balanced.


No, it is not lol


----------



## cirodts

I think so because in balanced it is much more powerful


----------



## tim0chan

cirodts said:


> I think so because in balanced it is much more powerful


Not fully balance as in no conversion to single ended signal internally. Yes the amp stage is balanced but is receiving single ended signal so the XLR are for convenience only


----------



## 532843

Hello everyone,

I have ordered a SMSL m200 from audiophonics.fr I live in the UK and have not received a reply yet as to whether it will ship with EU or UK plug.  Can someone please tell me what sort of power supply the unit uses, does it have a power adaptor or a lead straight from the mains plug to the m200? I have searched for pictures and unboxing but could not find one. I can order a replacement if I know.

Many thanks


----------



## XeNoNF50 (Jun 16, 2020)

SpanielChops said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have ordered a SMSL m200 from audiophonics.fr I live in the UK and have not received a reply yet as to whether it will ship with EU or UK plug.  Can someone please tell me what sort of power supply the unit uses, does it have a power adaptor or a lead straight from the mains plug to the m200? I have searched for pictures and unboxing but could not find one. I can order a replacement if I know.
> 
> Many thanks



I just received mine from Shenzhen Audio seller on Amazon UK. Took 8 days to arrive despite it saying it would take until mid to late July when ordered. They'd sell a lot more if they were more accurate lol. My last order from them before that took only 10 days from China.

Anyway mine came with a power supply unit. It's a figure 8 power lead that plugs into it.

Got my m200 in my downstairs/secondary system with Bluesound Node 2i streamer as source using coax out while paired with sp200 amp to my Focal Stellia and it is wonderful. Very impressed.


----------



## 532843

XeNoNF50 said:


> I just received mine from Shenzhen Audio seller on Amazon UK. Took 8 days to arrive despite it saying it would take until mid to late July when ordered. They'd sell a lot more if they were more accurate lol. My last order from them before that took only 10 days from China.
> 
> Anyway mine came with a power supply unit. It's a figure 8 power lead that plugs into it.
> 
> Got my m200 in my downstairs/secondary system with Bluesound Node 2i streamer as source using coax out while paired with sp200 amp to my Focal Stellia and it is wonderful. Very impressed.





XeNoNF50 said:


> I just received mine from Shenzhen Audio seller on Amazon UK. Took 8 days to arrive despite it saying it would take until mid to late July when ordered. They'd sell a lot more if they were more accurate lol. My last order from them before that took only 10 days from China.
> 
> Anyway mine came with a power supply unit. It's a figure 8 power lead that plugs into it.
> 
> Got my m200 in my downstairs/secondary system with Bluesound Node 2i streamer as source using coax out while paired with sp200 amp to my Focal Stellia and it is wonderful. Very impressed.


Urgh, I debated using shenzen or hifigo, I have ordered audio cables from China which were excellent and arrived quickly...the lead time of July
/August put me off but I wish I had tempered my impatience now.  Audiophonics will probably take longer.

Yea I have bought a sp200 off ebay but need a UK plug for that too.  I cant wait.

Thanks for the info


----------



## StarTreker

In my experience ordering online, equipment comes to you with the power cord required for your region. So if you ordered in the UK, I would expect it to be a UK plug. But doesn't the M200 use the same connection at the unit as the SP200 does, standard 3-pin computer cable? If so, even if it comes with the wrong cable, I am sure you have a UK plug that uses the standard computer 3-pin connection on the other end right?


----------



## StarTreker

Incase you need a power cable and don't have one for the units you bought, here is a link to one. You might have to adjust the search for Amazon UK though, as my link takes you to Amazon US.
3-Pin Computer Power Cable UK Plug


----------



## 532843

Yes, I have bought one of those for the sp200 thanks, I was not sure if I would need the same cable for the M200.  I wil prob purchase another just in case, thank you


----------



## XeNoNF50 (Jun 16, 2020)

SpanielChops said:


> Urgh, I debated using shenzen or hifigo, I have ordered audio cables from China which were excellent and arrived quickly...the lead time of July
> /August put me off but I wish I had tempered my impatience now.  Audiophonics will probably take longer.
> 
> Yea I have bought a sp200 off ebay but need a UK plug for that too.  I cant wait.
> ...


The SP200 is different to the M200 as it needs a kettle lead since the power supply is built into it. The M200 power supply needs one of these https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw0kp7mYQ0-01Aet_7I4tF03&cshid=1592339732848


----------



## Lamby90 (Jun 17, 2020)

Is this gonna be good with trn v90 or blon bl 03 IEMs? I read it won't be that good with low impedance IEMs. V90 is 22 Ohms and bl 03 is 32 Ohms.
Sensitivity is 110 dB/mW for the v90 and 102dB/mW the bl 03
I'm not an expert so I don't know what to look for decide what amp to buy


----------



## StarTreker

Lamby90 said:


> Is this gonna be good with trn v90 or blon bl 03 IEMs? I read it won't be that good with low impedance IEMs. V90 is 22 Ohms and bl 03 is 32 Ohms.
> Sensitivity is 110 dB/mW for the v90 and 102dB/mW the bl 03
> I'm not an expert so I don't know what to look for decide what amp to buy



The SMSL SP200 is way too much amp for IEM's, it was designed to power On Ear and Over Ear headphones. Even if you have the switch in low gain, as soon as you raise the volume till you hear sound out of both ears, the volume will already be too loud. IEM's don't require much power to drive, you can easily get away with an amp that does between 450MW to 800MW. I have a Fiio A3 and a Fiio A5 that would easily power those IEM's, and both of those amps cost less then the SMSL too. Yes they are portable, but like I said, all the IEM's need.


----------



## Lamby90 (Jun 17, 2020)

StarTreker said:


> The SMSL SP200 is way too much amp for IEM's, it was designed to power On Ear and Over Ear headphones. Even if you have the switch in low gain, as soon as you raise the volume till you hear sound out of both ears, the volume will already be too loud. IEM's don't require much power to drive, you can easily get away with an amp that does between 450MW to 800MW. I have a Fiio A3 and a Fiio A5 that would easily power those IEM's, and both of those amps cost less then the SMSL too. Yes they are portable, but like I said, all the IEM's need.


Thanks for the info! My main headphone is a Beyerdynamic dt 990 pro 250 Ohms (I listen mostly with that), but sometimes I like to listen the v90 or the bl03 just to rest the top of my head, the IEMs are more comfortable. I was looking for an amp that works with both, I was torn between this or the A50 by Topping but I'm afraid it has the same problem as this SMSL


----------



## StarTreker

Lamby90 said:


> Thanks for the info! My main headphone is a Beyerdynamic dt 990 pro 250 Ohms (I listen mostly with that), but sometimes I like to listen the v90 or the bl03 just to rest the top of my head, the IEMs are more comfortable. I was looking for an amp that works with both, I was torn between this or the A50 by Topping but I'm afraid it has the same problem as this SMSL



Your welcome, happy to help. Most people own more then one amp for this very reason. You could get the SMSL SP200 for your Beyerdynamic DT990, and you could get the Fiio A3 or Fiio A5 for your IEM's. FYI, if you do decide to purchase the SMSL SP200, make sure you purchase a replacement volume knob of the color you choose. The SP200 comes with a crappy plastic knob that none of us like. But you can replace it with an all aluminum knob of the color of your choice, for only a couple of bucks. They not only look better on the amp, but the added weight, helps to smoothen out the POT movement.

Yes it does come in black, here is the black version...
Black Volume Knob

This is the silver knob if someone wants that...
Silver Volume Knob

This is a blue knob version...
Blue Volume Knob

And for those who like it red as can be...
Red Volume Knob

And this is of course the gold volume knob that I have...
Gold Volume Knob

Here's a pic of mine!


----------



## Lamby90

Love it! Thanks again, if I pull the trigger I most definitely buy the knob too


----------



## tim0chan

StarTreker said:


> The SMSL SP200 is way too much amp for IEM's, it was designed to power On Ear and Over Ear headphones. Even if you have the switch in low gain, as soon as you raise the volume till you hear sound out of both ears, the volume will already be too loud. IEM's don't require much power to drive, you can easily get away with an amp that does between 450MW to 800MW. I have a Fiio A3 and a Fiio A5 that would easily power those IEM's, and both of those amps cost less then the SMSL too. Yes they are portable, but like I said, all the IEM's need.


have you even tried them with your shures? This amp sounds excellent with my custom iems and i can safely use my iems with this amp, albeit with very limited volume range. Make sure that you use a source that is rca for iems, typically rca outs are lower voltage than xlr and therefore will not be as loud when amplified


----------



## tim0chan

StarTreker said:


> Your welcome, happy to help. Most people own more then one amp for this very reason. You could get the SMSL SP200 for your Beyerdynamic DT990, and you could get the Fiio A3 or Fiio A5 for your IEM's. FYI, if you do decide to purchase the SMSL SP200, make sure you purchase a replacement volume knob of the color you choose. The SP200 comes with a crappy plastic knob that none of us like. But you can replace it with an all aluminum knob of the color of your choice, for only a couple of bucks. They not only look better on the amp, but the added weight, helps to smoothen out the POT movement.
> 
> Yes it does come in black, here is the black version...
> Black Volume Knob
> ...


these knobs are way too large for the opening, with improper installation, they will scratch the paint of the sp200. I recommend a 20mm diameter knob instead. 
all colours


----------



## StarTreker (Jun 20, 2020)

tim0chan said:


> these knobs are way too large for the opening, with improper installation, they will scratch the paint of the sp200. I recommend a 20mm diameter knob instead.
> all colours



I reviewed them in my thread on the amp. All you have to do, is back the knob off slightly about a papers thickness or so, and then tighten down the lock screw. Doing this was second nature to me, as I am a mechanic, and I own a feeler gauge, it easily allowed me to get the right distance, to prevent it from rubbing against the casing. Yes, you could go with the same size knob as the original 20mm. But its in my opinion, that larger knobs are better, easier to grip when rotating.

My size comparison image...





I realize that people who are not in the field of mechanics, may not know what a feeler gauge is.




.005 is 5 thousands of an inch
.127 mm for those of you in metric land
Link To A Affordable Feeler Gauge

Hopefully this helps those of you to easily set the distance.


----------



## Cat Music

After reading the comments, I came to the conclusion that the SP200 is suitable for a certain type of headphones with a certain specific sound signature, but not for everyone. In that case, I still can't find someone who has had the Sendy Aiva and how they behave with the SP200, I hope it is a good combination. From the experiences of other sp200 users it seems to behave well with planar headphones.
Now, I think it is also important here that Dac is combining. The sp200 by giving a neutral sound signature without coloration, can be combined with Dacs that have a more fun sound and not as analytical or neutral as that of the sp200, that would make it sound rougher, according to my reasoning. I may be wrong, but that may be why the sp200 pairs well with the m200 (AK4497) or D70, we know that the AKM signature is softer and more musical and could counteract the sound given by the sp200. The truth is that the world of audiophilia is very maddening haha


----------



## The Dude Abides

SpanielChops said:


> Yes, I have bought one of those for the sp200 thanks, I was not sure if I would need the same cable for the M200.  I wil prob purchase another just in case, thank you


To help other readers deep in the small print on the smsl website, should you order from China, they do say they will send mains cable based on the shipping address or you can tell them when you order. Therefore for me in UK mains cable supplied was EU 2 pin. I still use mine with an EU to UK travel adapter but I have all the attached equipment, sound source and DAC on filtered mains and LPS. Any kettle lead will work fine.


----------



## The Dude Abides

Cat Music said:


> After reading the comments, I came to the conclusion that the SP200 is suitable for a certain type of headphones with a certain specific sound signature, but not for everyone. In that case, I still can't find someone who has had the Sendy Aiva and how they behave with the SP200, I hope it is a good combination. From the experiences of other sp200 users it seems to behave well with planar headphones.
> Now, I think it is also important here that Dac is combining. The sp200 by giving a neutral sound signature without coloration, can be combined with Dacs that have a more fun sound and not as analytical or neutral as that of the sp200, that would make it sound rougher, according to my reasoning. I may be wrong, but that may be why the sp200 pairs well with the m200 (AK4497) or D70, we know that the AKM signature is softer and more musical and could counteract the sound given by the sp200. The truth is that the world of audiophilia is very maddening haha


Check this out


----------



## StarTreker

Sooooo, how are all of you enjoying your SP200's so far? I've had mine pretty much a month now and I freaking love it! Plus, once I got the new volume knob on there, it got even better. I've watched TV shows, movies, listened to music, played video games, the SP200 makes everything sound awesome, I wouldn't have it any other way honestly.


----------



## cirodts

should i buy an rs2 grado, with my sp200 is it a good combination?


----------



## StarTreker

cirodts said:


> should i buy an rs2 grado, with my sp200 is it a good combination?



Zeos said in one of his video's that Grado's are one of those headphones you either love them, or hate them lol. Since I've never heard a pair of Grado's, I can't really give you advice. But the the pairs that he was reviewing were all on ears. I assume Grado has over ears as well, but who knows. I can tell you this much though, the SP200 pairs very well with any headphone that is bass heavy where the highs are a bit recessed. People who try to use the SP200 with headphones that are open backed that produce full level highs, say that the SP200 amplifies the highs too much to ear bleeding levels. Of course, if you had access to EQ, you could easily compensate for that.


----------



## The Dude Abides

cirodts said:


> should i buy an rs2 grado, with my sp200 is it a good combination?


I have the Grado sr80 and Shure srh1840 both open back, one 32 one 60 ohm. The volume knob starts at half past on the clock, 32 ohm well loud enough at twenty to, 60 ohm around ten to to five to. Just consider if you are happy with the colour  of your source and DAC prior to getting to the cans. The sp200 has noiseless background and lets you hear what comes into it. I have an all digital system and can eq with Fabfilter Pro 3 which is superb.


----------



## cirodts

The Dude Abides said:


> I have the Grado sr80 and Shure srh1840 both open back, one 32 one 60 ohm. The volume knob starts at half past on the clock, 32 ohm well loud enough at twenty to, 60 ohm around ten to to five to. Just consider if you are happy with the colour  of your source and DAC prior to getting to the cans. The sp200 has noiseless background and lets you hear what comes into it. I have an all digital system and can eq with Fabfilter Pro 3 which is superb.


do you like grade with sp200?


----------



## alexlevn0791

Did anybody try the Sp200 out with planar magnetic cans? Thinking of maybe pairing it with my Hifiman Ananda.


----------



## Denosha

alexlevn0791 said:


> Did anybody try the Sp200 out with planar magnetic cans? Thinking of maybe pairing it with my Hifiman Ananda.



Just got my SP200 last week. Have at least 30-40+hrs runtime on it (including burn-in tracks for ~20+hrs but "real use"). So far I've only used it with my Hifiman Arya. Plenty of power and volume (on high gain i only get to about 9-10 o'clock) even on these pretty power hungry planars. I think as many have mentioned, it's a very neutral/analytical sounding amp, which personally i find still isn't cold/lifeless when paired with the Arya. For context, most of my other amps and headphones tend to be on the warmer side (which is my preference). 

One con though is that the soundstage really seems to be noticeably narrower, especially compared with my Schiit Lyr 2 (Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 tubes), Burson Soloist or even Schiit Vali 2 (EH 6922 Gold tube).

Planning to try the SP200 out with my LCD2 rev1 this week. I'm thinking the amp should balance out the much warmer/darker nature of the LCD2 (especially vs something like the Arya).


----------



## The Dude Abides

cirodts said:


> do you like grade with sp200?


Yes, it sounds great. The power and zero noise floor in the amplification really let's the design sing. It is of course one up from base in their range but for me the amp brought the level up to my Meze 99 Classic in many respects, some £200 odd difference.


----------



## StarTreker

Like I said in my review, the SP200 does straight up amplification, with noise floor reduction, exactly what it was designed to do. Those who have warmer sounding headphones like Denosha, will especially appreciate the SP200, because it will bring those headphones to life. Usually, the people who seem to not like the SP200, are folks who have bright sounding headphones out of the box, the SP200 will naturally increase the highs that you already have to levels you can't stand, unless of course, you had EQ to drop those highs down.


----------



## cirodts

in fact I have a beyerdinamic amiron and with sp200 it is a fabulous combination.


----------



## cirodts

In your opinion, does the sp200 pair better with a hifiman sundara or an rs2 grado?


----------



## Denosha

Reporting back in after some playtime with my LCD2s. Just like the Arya, it seems far happier on the High Gain setting even though the volume also stays around 9-10 O'clock. On low gain it's as though the upper-mids and highs are veiled and overall underpowered (even though the volume knob is only at about 11 O'clock). The neutral/analytical nature of the SP200 really does open up the LCD2 quite a bit, which works better for certain genres of music. Bass slam is still there, though to a lesser degree than some of my other amps.


----------



## StarTreker

Denosha said:


> Reporting back in after some playtime with my LCD2s. Just like the Arya, it seems far happier on the High Gain setting even though the volume also stays around 9-10 O'clock. On low gain it's as though the upper-mids and highs are veiled and overall underpowered (even though the volume knob is only at about 11 O'clock). The neutral/analytical nature of the SP200 really does open up the LCD2 quite a bit, which works better for certain genres of music. Bass slam is still there, though to a lesser degree than some of my other amps.



I concur, high gain seems to work best with my V-Moda Crossfade LP2 headphones. Low gain is really for drivers under 50mm that are not hard to drive. Also, use a nice thick cable, to get all that delicious amp power to your cans.


----------



## cirodts

to me the amiron "250 hom" is much better in low gain.


----------



## Cat Music

do you consider that among the JSD Labs Atom vs SP200, which is better in sound quality?


----------



## Denosha

Hmm.. the 300ohm HD6XX also prefers the high gain setting even though the volume knob needs to stay below 9am. Simiarly to the other headphones, the high gain seems to improve the top-end and openness of the sound. And actually I'm quite liking the pairing of the HD6XX with the SP200, ends up being quite a musical combo.


----------



## cirodts

the high gain high the scene but is lost in depth and sound separation.


----------



## XeNoNF50

My xDuoo TA-30 I was using with my Focal Utopia went a bit faulty and is having to be returned. I already had an SP200 in my downstairs set up which I had been mostly using with my Focal Stellia but occasionally also the Focal Utopia. Tested with the Utopia extensively once it became apparent I was going to need something else. 

Honestly more than delighted with a SP200. Clean, powerful and transparent. Allows the Utopia to shine. Ordered another one for the other set up .


----------



## cirodts

sp200 is fine with rs2e grado.


----------



## ra990

Got a good deal on one and agree, solid build, good performance, no issues with my volume knob, in fact channel matching is really excellent down to the lowest volume level. Looks like SMSL have fixed whatever issues there were with the volume control on the earlier builds. I will likely use it for a second setup somewhere else in the house.


----------



## StarTreker

Yep, S.M.S.L SP200 is the king of amps in the 300 dollar price range.


----------



## chaotic_angel

any one pair it with ifi Zen Dac? impression please...


----------



## JediMa70

How would you compare it with a Meier Jazz Corda?


----------



## jincuteguy

So I just got my new Hifiman Arya today, and I need a new DAC / Amp or DAC + Amp.  Im looking at SMSL M200 DAC  + SP200 AMP  VS Topping DX7 Pro DAC/AMP
Which one would drive the Hifiman Arya better? any infos would be appreciated.


----------



## Cat Music

jincuteguy said:


> So I just got my new Hifiman Arya today, and I need a new DAC / Amp or DAC + Amp.  Im looking at SMSL M200 DAC  + SP200 AMP  VS Topping DX7 Pro DAC/AMP
> Which one would drive the Hifiman Arya better? any infos would be appreciated.


Definitely sp200 will lead you better to Arya !! but the DX7 Pro is still a good option, however there is nothing like a dedicated amp.


----------



## jincuteguy

Cat Music said:


> Definitely sp200 will lead you better to Arya !! but the DX7 Pro is still a good option, however there is nothing like a dedicated amp.


I just ordered the DX7 Pro last night, should get here in a day or 2.  I'll try to get an SP200 after.


----------



## StarTreker

I also recommend the SP200, its an awesome amp with a whole lot of power, and very analytical.


----------



## cirodts

has anyone tried l sp200 with rs2e grado?


----------



## Flextreme (Jul 15, 2020)

jincuteguy said:


> So I just got my new Hifiman Arya today, and I need a new DAC / Amp or DAC + Amp.  Im looking at SMSL M200 DAC  + SP200 AMP  VS Topping DX7 Pro DAC/AMP
> Which one would drive the Hifiman Arya better? any infos would be appreciated.



I have the Arya & SP200, loved this combination! When your budget allows it, also try the Topping A90, the difference is much larger you would expect from only 200$ difference, especially with balanced Arya's.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-arya-impressions-thread.890421/page-131#post-15740980


----------



## alexlevn0791

guys, please excuse my ignorance, but when I connect my DAC to the SP200 through dual XLR, will I be able to use the quarter inch output still or must I listen through balance XLR? Is there a significant sonic advantage in using dual XLR vs dual RCA? Thanks a lot!


----------



## Forsaked

alexlevn0791 said:


> guys, please excuse my ignorance, but when I connect my DAC to the SP200 through dual XLR, will I be able to use the quarter inch output still or must I listen through balance XLR? Is there a significant sonic advantage in using dual XLR vs dual RCA? Thanks a lot!


Yes, you are able to liste to the 1/4" output.
The advantage of dual XLR is that it is a balanced connection and therefore it has a higher input gain, handy if u have hard to drive headphones.


----------



## StarTreker

Yes, you can use the 1/4 output jack, even if you are using the dual XLR input ports. The amp does not discriminate based on ports.


----------



## jincuteguy

Flextreme said:


> I have the Arya & SP200, loved this combination! When your budget allows it, also try the Topping A90, the difference is much larger you would expect from only 200$ difference, especially with balanced Arya's.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-arya-impressions-thread.890421/page-131#post-15740980



Ok I got my DX7 pro today and i was kinda disappointed.  Cause I almost had to max out the volume to get decent sound out from the Arya.  And I was using High Gain on the DX7 Pro.  I was like what....do I really need a separate amp for the Arya to shine?


----------



## Arniesb

jincuteguy said:


> Ok I got my DX7 pro today and i was kinda disappointed.  Cause I almost had to max out the volume to get decent sound out from the Arya.  And I was using High Gain on the DX7 Pro.  I was like what....do I really need a separate amp for the Arya to shine?


You have balanced cable?


----------



## jincuteguy

Arniesb said:


> You have balanced cable?



Not right now, but I ordered one.  It's coming today or tomorrow from HartAudioCAble
But why do I need to have balanced cable ? I mean the DX7 Pro should be able to drive my Arya pretty easy, but it wasn't.


----------



## Arniesb

jincuteguy said:


> Not right now, but I ordered one.  It's coming today or tomorrow from HartAudioCAble
> But why do I need to have balanced cable ? I mean the DX7 Pro should be able to drive my Arya pretty easy, but it wasn't.


Its more powerfull in balanced lol.


----------



## 340519

I like the sp200 so much that I have just ordered the sp200 dac. It will look cool stacked together.

Ps I use all SE with my hi end cans and I use balanced with the abyss 1266 tcs only because it came with balanced. There is no difference between balanced and SE, only over very long distances for noise purposes.  A myth propogates in audio circles that xlrs are better.


----------



## StarTreker

dmdm said:


> I like the sp200 so much that I have just ordered the sp200 dac. It will look cool stacked together.
> 
> Ps I use all SE with my hi end cans and I use balanced with the abyss 1266 tcs only because it came with balanced. There is no difference between balanced and SE, only over very long distances for noise purposes.  A myth propogates in audio circles that xlrs are better.



Oh my gosh, I'm so very excited for you! I can't wait to see both the pictures, and your happiness with the pair. 

I too am looking forward to getting the M200 DAC, but the wallet says no right now. So, when it says yes, I will get it.


----------



## jincuteguy

Arniesb said:


> Its more powerfull in balanced lol.



LIke how much more powerful? 2x? 5x? 10x?


----------



## 340519

jincuteguy said:


> LIke how much more powerful? 2x? 5x? 10x?


Exactly.


----------



## 340519

jincuteguy said:


> Not right now, but I ordered one.  It's coming today or tomorrow from HartAudioCAble
> But why do I need to have balanced cable ? I mean the DX7 Pro should be able to drive my Arya pretty easy, but it wasn't.


You don't need a balanced cable. SE is the same.


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> Yes, you can use the 1/4 output jack, even if you are using the dual XLR input ports. The amp does not discriminate based on ports.


I use the se port on the sp200.


----------



## jincuteguy

dmdm said:


> You don't need a balanced cable. SE is the same.



The other guy said balanced cables is more powerful


----------



## 340519 (Jul 20, 2020)

jincuteguy said:


> The other guy said balanced cables is more powerful


Right sorry. Well none of my stuff is more powerful with the xlrs. Sounds the same to me at the same volume levels. And I have balanced cables for most of my cans but I prefer se as it's just easier for me.


----------



## Uebelkraehe (Jul 20, 2020)

jincuteguy said:


> The other guy said balanced cables is more powerful



There is no true balanced with the SP200, the XLR output is only for convenience and provides exactly the same power as 6.3mm Jack.

Edit: Fixed the inspired swap of the x and the c in "exactly".


----------



## 340519

Uebelkraehe said:


> There is no true balanced with the SP200, the XLR output is only for convenience and provides ecaxtly the same power as 6.3mm Jack.


Yes exactly.


----------



## Uebelkraehe

dmdm said:


> Yes exactly.


I see what you did there...


----------



## XeNoNF50

alexlevn0791 said:


> guys, please excuse my ignorance, but when I connect my DAC to the SP200 through dual XLR, will I be able to use the quarter inch output still or must I listen through balance XLR? Is there a significant sonic advantage in using dual XLR vs dual RCA? Thanks a lot!



With the SP200 dual XLR vs dual RCA doesn't particularly matter nor does 1/4" vs XLR for output. It is all the same output power. When I tried dual XLR A/Bing with dual RCA using XLR/RCA switch at the front I noticed the dual XLR were ever so slightly (almost imperceptible) more dynamic presumably due to my dual XLR cables being of much higher quality than my dual RCA cables.


----------



## 340519

XeNoNF50 said:


> With the SP200 dual XLR vs dual RCA doesn't particularly matter nor does 1/4" vs XLR for output. It is all the same output power. When I tried dual XLR A/Bing with dual RCA using XLR/RCA switch at the front I noticed the dual XLR were ever so slightly (almost imperceptible) more dynamic presumably due to my dual XLR cables being of much higher quality than my dual RCA cables.


How do you like the M200?


----------



## XeNoNF50

dmdm said:


> How do you like the M200?



I'll be honest I've not really used it much since I usually go straight from Bluesound Node 2i to the SP200 in that set up. I bought the M200 purely for bluetooth as my Sony soundbar can send my TV sound as LDAC bluetooth to any device. But when I tested it's DAC capabilities it was nice. Generally not too much audible difference to my Node 2i streamer or the Sabaj D5 in my upstairs set up. In that sense it is great value for money. Sounds clean and transparent, though my unit makes a slight audible popping sound when switching sample rates. Doesn't bother me though since I only use bluetooth and bluetooth isn't bit perfect so doesn't switch sample rates between songs.


----------



## jincuteguy

Uebelkraehe said:


> There is no true balanced with the SP200, the XLR output is only for convenience and provides exactly the same power as 6.3mm Jack.
> 
> Edit: Fixed the inspired swap of the x and the c in "exactly".



I don't have the SP200....I have the Topping DX7 Pro


----------



## Uebelkraehe

jincuteguy said:


> I don't have the SP200....I have the Topping DX7 Pro



Ah, ok, that's a different matter. Balanced all the way if you need the additional power (and also marginally better measurements).


----------



## StarTreker

Well, I tell you what, with large 22-gauge cables, I've noticed an increase in dynamics myself, you can hear much more details. I have 22-gauge cables being used in the entire chain. From the Monoprice RCA cables that connect between the DAC to the EQ box, and from the EQ box to the amp. And the Canare Star Quad AUX cable that connects between the amp and to my headphones. When you use thinner gauge cables, you lose dynamics, and also the ability to really drive your can's to their full potential. So weather or not you use specifically XLR cables or RCA cables makes no difference. The SP200 is not really a balanced amp, it gives you the illusion that it is because of the connections, but its not truly balanced.

What matters is, using thick 22-gauge gauge cables to deliver the sound. At the end of the day, the SP200 on HIGH gain does a maximum of 6-watts per channel, that does not magically change because you use XLR cables. Sure, you can run high quality cables in the input chain and more then likely those cables will help you deliver a higher line level. Because thin cables would restrict power flow. So as long as you have the proper line level going into the SP200, using good thick cables, that amp should provide all the power that you need. I myself have 0-issues with my SP200. 

And heck, even Z-reviews said that there are very few can's, that actually need more power, then what the SP200 can provide. So make sure the input chain of your setup is proper, and then the output from the amp should be as well.


----------



## jincuteguy

StarTreker said:


> Well, I tell you what, with large 22-gauge cables, I've noticed an increase in dynamics myself, you can hear much more details. I have 22-gauge cables being used in the entire chain. From the Monoprice RCA cables that connect between the DAC to the EQ box, and from the EQ box to the amp. And the Canare Star Quad AUX cable that connects between the amp and to my headphones. When you use thinner gauge cables, you lose dynamics, and also the ability to really drive your can's to their full potential. So weather or not you use specifically XLR cables or RCA cables makes no difference. The SP200 is not really a balanced amp, it gives you the illusion that it is because of the connections, but its not truly balanced.
> 
> What matters is, using thick 22-gauge gauge cables to deliver the sound. At the end of the day, the SP200 on HIGH gain does a maximum of 6-watts per channel, that does not magically change because you use XLR cables. Sure, you can run high quality cables in the input chain and more then likely those cables will help you deliver a higher line level. Because thin cables would restrict power flow. So as long as you have the proper line level going into the SP200, using good thick cables, that amp should provide all the power that you need. I myself have 0-issues with my SP200.
> 
> And heck, even Z-reviews said that there are very few can's, that actually need more power, then what the SP200 can provide. So make sure the input chain of your setup is proper, and then the output from the amp should be as well.



So what cable should i get? links would be helpful


----------



## StarTreker

jincuteguy said:


> So what cable should i get? links would be helpful



Well, if I could post a link to Amazon I would, but every Amazon link I post on this website, gets automatically redirected to some other site. I will just post the title of the product, you can look it up on Amazon super easily.

In regards to optical cables, it doesn't really matter so much which one you buy, as it matters more about the length that you require. Optical cables AKA fiber optic cables, simply transfer light through the cable, and do not suffer from wire based dynamics. As long as you don't put the cable through a lot of bends, they will not fail on you, and will work just fine. This is how I am transferring sound from my TV to the DAC.

To transfer sound from my DAC to the EQ box, and then from the EQ box to the amp, I am using the *Monoprice 105347 10-Feet 22AWG Premium 2 RCA Plug to 2 RCA Plug Audio Cable - Black. *You can purchase this cable in different lengths to suit your needs. This is what the cable looks like...





These cables are gold plated as you can see, and they make a good solid connection, and the thick 22-gauge cable doesn't restrict powerflow. 

In regards to the AUX cable I am using for my can's, its a custom 1/4" to 1/8" 10' Conare Star Quad 22-gauge cable. Please note however, if your can's use a recessed audio jack port, chances are this cable won't work without modification. I bought this at GhentAudio website.



My V-Moda Crossfade LP2 headphones use a recessed audio port, so I had to use a bench grinder, to grind down the connector, so it would fit. lol




If you choose to keep all the links in the chain to be XLR, just make sure your buying a quality XLR cables that are 22-gauge. Stay away from all that thin 28-gauge crap. I was running on a super thin Ivanky AUX cable that was probably 28-gauge for over a couple months, until I could get a better quality cable for my cans.


----------



## jincuteguy

StarTreker said:


> Well, if I could post a link to Amazon I would, but every Amazon link I post on this website, gets automatically redirected to some other site. I will just post the title of the product, you can look it up on Amazon super easily.
> 
> In regards to optical cables, it doesn't really matter so much which one you buy, as it matters more about the length that you require. Optical cables AKA fiber optic cables, simply transfer light through the cable, and do not suffer from wire based dynamics. As long as you don't put the cable through a lot of bends, they will not fail on you, and will work just fine. This is how I am transferring sound from my TV to the DAC.
> 
> ...



Isn't GhentAudio is from China? Like it would take forever for the cable to get to me. I don't wanna wait that long lol


----------



## StarTreker

jincuteguy said:


> Isn't GhentAudio is from China? Like it would take forever for the cable to get to me. I don't wanna wait that long lol



Yes, the cable will take a minimum of 2 to 3-weeks to get to you. But it is a high quality cable, made in Japan, as you can see as proof in my picture, written on the cable, that you won't be able to find on Amazon, at least I never did. I did find Mogami cables on Amazon, but they want like 60 bucks a cable, and no way was I going to pay that much!

I understand how you feel, I don't like to wait for stuff either, especially that long. But I suffered with that Ivanky cable until I got a good solid cable to listen from. And comparing the sound from the two cables, it was like a night and day difference. Not only did my can's receive more power from the thicker cable, but I was hearing new details that I did not hear before. 

Now, unlike thin and easily flexible cables that you don't notice against your shoulder, you will notice a 22-gauge thicker less flexible cable on you. But if you asked me, I quickly learned to live with it, the sound quality is just amazing. That cable combined with my SP200 AMP, is nothing short of amazing. All I need to do now, is replace my DAC with the M200.


----------



## MalinYamato

jincuteguy said:


> Isn't GhentAudio is from China? Like it would take forever for the cable to get to me. I don't wanna wait that long lol


I ordered Luna cables (Chinese) from Ali express in April but have not arrived yet. Same as other stuff from Ali express, it takes forever for them to arrive. It is weird as when I order from Shenzhen Audio stuff get to me within two weeks.


----------



## tim0chan

dmdm said:


> I like the sp200 so much that I have just ordered the sp200 dac. It will look cool stacked together.
> 
> Ps I use all SE with my hi end cans and I use balanced with the abyss 1266 tcs only because it came with balanced. There is no difference between balanced and SE, only over very long distances for noise purposes.  A myth propogates in audio circles that xlrs are better.


Only holds true for the sp200 as the "XLR output" is just a convenience ( wired up as single ended). Other amplifiers usually have "double" the amp stage and therefore 4 times the power through the balanced plug. So, if you're happy with the sp200 then great, no need to change anything. However, if you have other amps that have a balanced jack that you are not using out of convenience, you might want to check out an affordable cable to try the balanced on those amps.


----------



## 340519 (Jul 21, 2020)

tim0chan said:


> Only holds true for the sp200 as the "XLR output" is just a convenience ( wired up as single ended). Other amplifiers usually have "double" the amp stage and therefore 4 times the power through the balanced plug. So, if you're happy with the sp200 then great, no need to change anything. However, if you have other amps that have a balanced jack that you are not using out of convenience, you might want to check out an affordable cable to try the balanced on those amps.


Yup I have 2 x bryston bha1 and I'm very happy using the SE output thank you.
There is no sound quality difference between SE and balanced so I prefer SE.


----------



## jipan

My SMSL SP200 came today and oh dear.... it's so much better than my FiiO E10 XD
I know E10 can't fully drive Senn HD600, but it just too much difference.... Gone is the biting, metallic high I associate with FiiO E10.

I wish I still had my Aune T1 for comparison, but I'm loving this amp already. It's so small! Not much bigger than my now broken Aune T1, it sit nicely on my desk.

Any DAC recommendation to pair with this amp? Currently using Fiio E10.


----------



## BrainFood (Jul 24, 2020)

-----------------------------


----------



## 340519

jipan said:


> My SMSL SP200 came today and oh dear.... it's so much better than my FiiO E10 XD
> I know E10 can't fully drive Senn HD600, but it just too much difference.... Gone is the biting, metallic high I associate with FiiO E10.
> 
> I wish I still had my Aune T1 for comparison, but I'm loving this amp already. It's so small! Not much bigger than my now broken Aune T1, it sit nicely on my desk.
> ...


I just bought the m200 to go with it .


----------



## MalinYamato

jipan said:


> My SMSL SP200 came today and oh dear.... it's so much better than my FiiO E10 XD
> I know E10 can't fully drive Senn HD600, but it just too much difference.... Gone is the biting, metallic high I associate with FiiO E10.
> 
> I wish I still had my Aune T1 for comparison, but I'm loving this amp already. It's so small! Not much bigger than my now broken Aune T1, it sit nicely on my desk.
> ...


congrat ! I am still on the fence getting one or a Drop ZEN 6xx


----------



## StarTreker (Jul 24, 2020)

Agreed, the S.M.S.L M200 DAC was meant to stack with the S.M.S.L Sp200.






Actually, they do make XLR to 1/4 adapters, Zeo's has demonstrated their use with the amp on Z-Reviews.

XLR To 1/4 Adapters

And they also make XLR to 1/8 adapters as well for your needs!

XLR to 1/8 Adapters

Just choose what you need for your project, and then order them on Amazon, Ebay, or wherever.


----------



## jipan

SMSL M200 was it? Hmm I'll see if it available locally. I do saw M500, tho.

Thank you for the inputs.


----------



## The Dude Abides

jipan said:


> My SMSL SP200 came today and oh dear.... it's so much better than my FiiO E10 XD
> I know E10 can't fully drive Senn HD600, but it just too much difference.... Gone is the biting, metallic high I associate with FiiO E10.
> 
> I wish I still had my Aune T1 for comparison, but I'm loving this amp already. It's so small! Not much bigger than my now broken Aune T1, it sit nicely on my desk.
> ...


I can recommend the Topping D90 DAC plus if you can, burn in the sp200 with pink noise, white noise, sine etc. I was amazed how much this helped. Set the track on repeat and get on with something else. I just worked patiently an hour at a time here.


----------



## XeNoNF50

The Dude Abides said:


> I can recommend the Topping D90 DAC plus if you can, burn in the sp200 with pink noise, white noise, sine etc. I was amazed how much this helped. Set the track on repeat and get on with something else. I just worked patiently an hour at a time here.



I put some cheap IEMs in and leave the radio on for 4 days straight lol


----------



## The Dude Abides

XeNoNF50 said:


> I put some cheap IEMs in and leave the radio on for 4 days straight lol


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/free-burn-in-files.466827/


----------



## XeNoNF50

The Dude Abides said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/free-burn-in-files.466827/


Thanks!


----------



## jincuteguy

So I got my SP200 yesterday.  I hooked it up to my Topping DX7 Pro (is hooked up to PC via USB).  If I set the Gain on the SP200 to High, the volume to 70%, and fire up a game such as Diablo 3, I can hear a humming noise coming out from my Hifiman Arya headphones.  So should I return this SP200 and get another one? or you guys think it's a another problem? And also, does anyone have this issue or is it just me?


----------



## jipan

Topping D90 is out of reach currently.... its almost twice Sp200 price in Indonesia.
I wonder if Topping D10/20/30 or E30 would fit well?


----------



## StarTreker

jincuteguy said:


> So I got my SP200 yesterday.  I hooked it up to my Topping DX7 Pro (is hooked up to PC via USB).  If I set the Gain on the SP200 to High, the volume to 70%, and fire up a game such as Diablo 3, I can hear a humming noise coming out from my Hifiman Arya headphones.  So should I return this SP200 and get another one? or you guys think it's a another problem? And also, does anyone have this issue or is it just me?



Nope, I do not have this issue, otherwise I would have stated this on the forum, in my review. A hum sound is usually caused by an improper ground, which doesn't necessarily have to happen in the amp itself. It can be caused by loose connections, or from the source itself. Please make sure all your connections are tight. If using 1/4 or 1/8 jacks, make sure that the plug is clean using some isopropyl alcohol. If manufacturing dust is found in the ports themselves, clean them with a cotton swab and some alcohol. Make sure amp is unplugged when doing this of course. 

Test the source, do you have a hum coming from the source? If you answer no, then I would begin testing different cans with this amp, to see if you hear an audible hum from them. If after doing everything and you still hear a hum, then it might be due to a defective amp. But I will say, you should never have to push this amp all the way to 70% in high gain. Either the impedence of the cans is too high, or the source line level is too low. 

You state that you have the SP200 hooked up to your Topping DX7. I hope you know to set the computer volume to 100%, and if your Topping DX7 has a pre-amp built in, set its volume to 0DB. With those settings, you should never have to push the amp beyond 50%. But of course, once volumes are set, a lot depends on impedence of the cans. Hopefully, I've given you some ideas to help.


----------



## jincuteguy

StarTreker said:


> Nope, I do not have this issue, otherwise I would have stated this on the forum, in my review. A hum sound is usually caused by an improper ground, which doesn't necessarily have to happen in the amp itself. It can be caused by loose connections, or from the source itself. Please make sure all your connections are tight. If using 1/4 or 1/8 jacks, make sure that the plug is clean using some isopropyl alcohol. If manufacturing dust is found in the ports themselves, clean them with a cotton swab and some alcohol. Make sure amp is unplugged when doing this of course.
> 
> Test the source, do you have a hum coming from the source? If you answer no, then I would begin testing different cans with this amp, to see if you hear an audible hum from them. If after doing everything and you still hear a hum, then it might be due to a defective amp. But I will say, you should never have to push this amp all the way to 70% in high gain. Either the impedence of the cans is too high, or the source line level is too low.
> 
> You state that you have the SP200 hooked up to your Topping DX7. I hope you know to set the computer volume to 100%, and if your Topping DX7 has a pre-amp built in, set its volume to 0DB. With those settings, you should never have to push the amp beyond 50%. But of course, once volumes are set, a lot depends on impedence of the cans. Hopefully, I've given you some ideas to help.



Yes my computer volume is at 100%, my DX7 Pro is at Max volume (which is 0 DB).  My headphones is the Hifiman Arya, if you know what I'm talking about.
If I just use my DX7 Pro only, there is no humming noise.  The humming noise only occured when a game is running which means my video card is running at max clock speed instead of the idle clock speed.  Hence my PC is using a lot of power during the game is running.  I talked to some other ppl in another thread and they said it's a ground loop problem. 

The only thing I could think of could be the issue is I'm using RCA cables to connect my DX7 Pro to my SP200.  I already ordered some XLR cables but they won't be here until monday.  Now remember this humming noise is only when a game is running, if I don't run any game and just listen to music on my PC, there's no humming noise whatsoever.


----------



## The Dude Abides (Jul 25, 2020)

jipan said:


> Topping D90 is out of reach currently.... its almost twice Sp200 price in Indonesia.
> I wonder if Topping D10/20/30 or E30 would fit well?


I find very good reviews on the soundnews YouTube channel including the smsl DAC to match the sp200. There is also a written blog online which may be translated from English by some web browsers. There are topping reviews here to


----------



## jipan

Thank you for the video link, I'll go and watch it first.

The closest source for M200 I can find is via Lazada, sent from chinese. It's twice the price of topping E30 price, tho.


----------



## The Dude Abides

jipan said:


> Thank you for the video link, I'll go and watch it first.
> 
> The closest source for M200 I can find is via Lazada, sent from chinese. It's twice the price of topping E30 price, tho.


https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/topping-e30-dac-review-entry-level-overachiever/


----------



## StarTreker

jincuteguy said:


> Yes my computer volume is at 100%, my DX7 Pro is at Max volume (which is 0 DB).  My headphones is the Hifiman Arya, if you know what I'm talking about.
> If I just use my DX7 Pro only, there is no humming noise.  The humming noise only occured when a game is running which means my video card is running at max clock speed instead of the idle clock speed.  Hence my PC is using a lot of power during the game is running.  I talked to some other ppl in another thread and they said it's a ground loop problem.
> 
> The only thing I could think of could be the issue is I'm using RCA cables to connect my DX7 Pro to my SP200.  I already ordered some XLR cables but they won't be here until monday.  Now remember this humming noise is only when a game is running, if I don't run any game and just listen to music on my PC, there's no humming noise whatsoever.



From your description, it sounds like the problem stems from the video card. Video cards are also designed to process audio. And while I am sure you have USB audio selected because you use a DAC, that does not mean you won't necessarily get interference from the video card. What video card is it exactly? 

You also mentioned that the video card is taxing your computer during games, as in drawing a lot of current. I'd be curious to know exactly how much current your PC is pulling. Do you believe you have a large enough capacity power supply to handle the load in the computer? Do you have a quality video card and motherboard in your computer?

Sometimes cheap motherboards and video cards can cause more problems then their worth. But if I had to guess, I'd say that you probably have a power supply that is being taxed by the video cards draw, and its pushing the PSU to the limit, which is not good, cause that will cause premature failure of the PSU. Hopefully you can get this figured out.


----------



## jincuteguy

StarTreker said:


> From your description, it sounds like the problem stems from the video card. Video cards are also designed to process audio. And while I am sure you have USB audio selected because you use a DAC, that does not mean you won't necessarily get interference from the video card. What video card is it exactly?
> 
> You also mentioned that the video card is taxing your computer during games, as in drawing a lot of current. I'd be curious to know exactly how much current your PC is pulling. Do you believe you have a large enough capacity power supply to handle the load in the computer? Do you have a quality video card and motherboard in your computer?
> 
> Sometimes cheap motherboards and video cards can cause more problems then their worth. But if I had to guess, I'd say that you probably have a power supply that is being taxed by the video cards draw, and its pushing the PSU to the limit, which is not good, cause that will cause premature failure of the PSU. Hopefully you can get this figured out.




Yes, I have a Corsair AX1600i (1600w) PSU and  my video card is RTX 2080 Ti.


----------



## jipan

I ordered Topping E30 for USD 150 (include taxes and shipping fee) since I can't find SMSL M200 less than USD 250 (and that's before taxes too).
I'll give impression how it work with SP200.

I'm loving my sp200, everything sounded great! The treble is airy but not glaring, it felt like my HD600 is opened. And the vocals are simply addicting, so sweet... yet detailed.
And this is with good old Fiio E10 (the first edition).
I guess this is end game amp for me, at least until it broke, and I hope I can get 5+ years life time from it like my Fiio E10 XD

Thank you guys for all your inputs. This is really great amp, and its only cost me around USD 250 too.


----------



## StarTreker

Another satisfied SP200 owner. It really is the best amp in the 300 dollar price range. Of course I've noticed the price went down conveniently after I bought it, and has been hovering around the 250 to 270 level. 

*S.M.S.L....S.M.S.L...It really whips that lama's ash. Baaaaaa*





Who is old enough to know what I am parodying up there?

HINT: You got to be older then a millennial to know the answer.


----------



## 340519

M200 showed up today! Should be interesting. I love the bluetooth and volume control on it.


----------



## StarTreker

dmdm said:


> M200 showed up today! Should be interesting. I love the bluetooth and volume control on it.



I'm glad you are enjoying your new DAC already, glad that it has good bluetooth and volume control. What mode are you running it in, PCM or DSD?

Oh my gosh, I can't wait to see!


----------



## 340519

Whoa simply amazing!!!


----------



## 340519

What a great dac. As good as the benchmark because I can't hear a difference.


----------



## StarTreker

Now thats what I am talking about, show off that M200 sexy blue display. It is obviously the unit that is stealing the thunder, as its very clearly king of the hill, on that mountain hehe. Glad you are enjoying it as well. Love the picture!


----------



## Cat Music

dmdm said:


> Whoa simply amazing!!!


and how about the m200 + sp200 combination in sound quality?


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> Now thats what I am talking about, show off that M200 sexy blue display. It is obviously the unit that is stealing the thunder, as its very clearly king of the hill, on that mountain hehe. Glad you are enjoying it as well. Love the picture!


And that's with bluetooth! What a game changer.


----------



## 340519

Cat Music said:


> and how about the m200 + sp200 combination in sound quality?


Well the sp200 is at my cottage so I will try it on the weekend. I just bought the Cavalli Liquid Tube amp from massdrop today for fun as well!


----------



## jincuteguy

Ok I got my custom XLR cables today to connect from my DX7 Pro to SP200, and the noise during gaming is gone.  So I'm thinking about getting the A90 and return this SP200, cause i heard the A90 sounds better and has Balanced output.


----------



## StarTreker

jincuteguy said:


> Ok I got my custom XLR cables today to connect from my DX7 Pro to SP200, and the noise during gaming is gone.  So I'm thinking about getting the A90 and return this SP200, cause i heard the A90 sounds better and has Balanced output.



I'm sorry to hear that your regretting your SP200 acquisition. What is the price difference between the Topping A90 and the S.M.S.L SP200? Cause I think the A90 is supposed to be more expensive, like 500 dollars I think? Thats a steeper price to pay for an amp. Also, if people say that it sounds better, well, sure its a 500 dollar amp, I guess it would. However, how much better does it really sound though? Is it worth the price justification to acquire it?

Cause I've also watched a video review, where a guy was reviewing the SP200, and he said that the only amps that were worth spending more on, that actually sounded far better then the SP200, were like amps that costs 2000 dollars! Just trying to help you save money dude.


----------



## jincuteguy

StarTreker said:


> I'm sorry to hear that your regretting your SP200 acquisition. What is the price difference between the Topping A90 and the S.M.S.L SP200? Cause I think the A90 is supposed to be more expensive, like 500 dollars I think? Thats a steeper price to pay for an amp. Also, if people say that it sounds better, well, sure its a 500 dollar amp, I guess it would. However, how much better does it really sound though? Is it worth the price justification to acquire it?
> 
> Cause I've also watched a video review, where a guy was reviewing the SP200, and he said that the only amps that were worth spending more on, that actually sounded far better then the SP200, were like amps that costs 2000 dollars! Just trying to help you save money dude.



Yea the A90 is $500, that's $200 more than the SP200.  I dont know what's wrong with my SP200 but right now  I'm using XLR balaned out from my DX7 Pro to the SP200, and I think there'se a light imbalance between the Left and Right Channel.  The left channel is a bit weaker sounding compare to the right.  Do you think it's the XLR cable? or the SP200 amp


----------



## StarTreker

jincuteguy said:


> Yea the A90 is $500, that's $200 more than the SP200.  I dont know what's wrong with my SP200 but right now  I'm using XLR balaned out from my DX7 Pro to the SP200, and I think there'se a light imbalance between the Left and Right Channel.  The left channel is a bit weaker sounding compare to the right.  Do you think it's the XLR cable? or the SP200 amp



Well, XLR cables are designed to make perfect connections between two devices. If you can move the XLR cable around, and find that there are no shorts in the cable, then there is nothing in the cable that can cause an imbalance, short of a short. Ohhhhh got ya with a punn   So, ya, its probably your SP200. There were a few cases on record where a few people got defective units, but that was last year. I thought all stock this year were new stock, with fixed SP200's. Mine doesn't have any issues for example.

Did you buy yours on Amazon? If so, they have an excellent return service within the 30-day period. If its beyond that, you will have to contact S.M.S.L for return under defect.


----------



## jincuteguy

StarTreker said:


> Well, XLR cables are designed to make perfect connections between two devices. If you can move the XLR cable around, and find that there are no shorts in the cable, then there is nothing in the cable that can cause an imbalance, short of a short. Ohhhhh got ya with a punn   So, ya, its probably your SP200. There were a few cases on record where a few people got defective units, but that was last year. I thought all stock this year were new stock, with fixed SP200's. Mine doesn't have any issues for example.
> 
> Did you buy yours on Amazon? If so, they have an excellent return service within the 30-day period. If its beyond that, you will have to contact S.M.S.L for return under defect.



Well the reason I know it was the XLR cable is because I used a different XLR cable to test it out.  And I did not have that issue.  So it was the XLR cable that I  bought from HeartAudioCable, it came as a pair , just 1 of them is defective.


----------



## StarTreker

jincuteguy said:


> Well the reason I know it was the XLR cable is because I used a different XLR cable to test it out.  And I did not have that issue.  So it was the XLR cable that I  bought from HeartAudioCable, it came as a pair , just 1 of them is defective.



Well thats really good to know! Glad its not the amp, as that is an expensive piece of tech, and I don't want people to get depressed from defective amps. We live in some pretty harsh times these days, and we need our amps to help us escape. Its easy to replace a cable, hopefully you can get them to send you a new free cable to replace the 1 that is defective. I was trying my best to help you diagnose the issue, but its hard to do that remotely over the net. But at least you have a good outcome now. Please enjoy your new amp,


----------



## jincuteguy

StarTreker said:


> Well thats really good to know! Glad its not the amp, as that is an expensive piece of tech, and I don't want people to get depressed from defective amps. We live in some pretty harsh times these days, and we need our amps to help us escape. Its easy to replace a cable, hopefully you can get them to send you a new free cable to replace the 1 that is defective. I was trying my best to help you diagnose the issue, but its hard to do that remotely over the net. But at least you have a good outcome now. Please enjoy your new amp,



Yea I sent the guy over at HeartAudioCable a message, haven't got a reply back yet.  But I also ordered some 16awg XLR cables from Monoprice, maybe those are better. Should be here in couple days.  I live like 1h 1/2 from Monoprice.


----------



## StarTreker

jincuteguy said:


> Yea I sent the guy over at HeartAudioCable a message, haven't got a reply back yet.  But I also ordered some 16awg XLR cables from Monoprice, maybe those are better. Should be here in couple days.  I live like 1h 1/2 from Monoprice.



Dude, I freaking love Monoprice cables! They are always quality, but with a cheaper price tag. 16-gauge XLR cables are top notch in their thickness, it means that they won't be the limiting factor on power distribution. I have their 22-gauge RCA cables, top notch quality IMO.


----------



## jincuteguy

StarTreker said:


> Dude, I freaking love Monoprice cables! They are always quality, but with a cheaper price tag. 16-gauge XLR cables are top notch in their thickness, it means that they won't be the limiting factor on power distribution. I have their 22-gauge RCA cables, top notch quality IMO.




That's a nice looking cable, i just wished Monoprice has a custom sleeved service for their cables.


----------



## volly

Just received the SP200, let's see what she's got! 

I'll run her on the Progeny and see what it can uncover!


----------



## StarTreker

Very nice Volly, you got my approval! Let us know how she does with your setup. But I am going to predict, that your going to come back to us, and tell us that the SP200 really whips that lama's ash. HEHE

So, for those who are not aware yet, I purchased this DAC, its supposed to arrive tomorrow! As you know, these are made to stack with the SP200.


----------



## 340519

The sp200 is as good as any amp that I've heard at any price.


----------



## Cat Music

dmdm said:


> The sp200 is as good as any amp that I've heard at any price.


can you name the top price range amps that compare to the sp200?


----------



## 340519

Cat Music said:


> can you name the top price range amps that compare to the sp200?


Up to 15k. This all subjective of course.


----------



## jincuteguy

dmdm said:


> Up to 15k. This all subjective of course.



What a bout the A90?


----------



## StarTreker

You know what is not subjective? Is how much I love my new S.M.S.L M200 DAC! It came in the mail today, and I freaking love it! For those who are interested, you can checkout my general review for it. 
S.M.S.L M200 DAC Review With Pictures!


----------



## volly

dmdm said:


> The sp200 is as good as any amp that I've heard at any price.


I think I want to buy another one! Damit...this little beast is sexy aF! 

Gonna give it even more time to settle in and get a really good gauge on this little amp! But My first week with it has been splendid! 

But seriously...I want another for my Prime II because the Progeny is getting all the time right now!


----------



## 340519

volly said:


> I think I want to buy another one! Damit...this little beast is sexy aF!
> 
> Gonna give it even more time to settle in and get a really good gauge on this little amp! But My first week with it has been splendid!
> 
> But seriously...I want another for my Prime II because the Progeny is getting all the time right now!


I had two and I regret selling the second one. I might buy another used.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

dmdm said:


> The sp200 is as good as any amp that I've heard at any price.



is it simply as good as bryston?


----------



## 340519

TheMiddleSky said:


> is it simply as good as bryston?


Yes.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

dmdm said:


> Yes.



Interesting, I never heard Bryston so only can imagine it.


----------



## StarTreker

This is all you need...

S.M.S.L SP200 AMP





S.M.S.L M200 DAC


----------



## 340519

TheMiddleSky said:


> Interesting, I never heard Bryston so only can imagine it.


Dont get me wrong, my 2 bryston bha1s are incredible. I just got the new one friday after waiting 5 weeks for them to build it.


----------



## StarTreker

dmdm said:


> Dont get me wrong, my 2 bryston bha1s are incredible. I just got the new one friday after waiting 5 weeks for them to build it.



OMG, I just spotted Star wars, in a box FAR FAR AWAY! .........................

Kiss a wookie, kick a droid
Fly the falcon through an asteroid
Till the princess is annoyed
This is spaceships, it's monsters, it's Star Wars, we love it!

Get in there you big, furry oaf
I couldn't care less what you smell
I take orders from only me
Maybe you'd like it back in your cell
Your Highness, your worshipfulness, your highness, your worshipfulness

I posted this cause I thought it would make you laugh.


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> OMG, I just spotted Star wars, in a box FAR FAR AWAY! .........................
> 
> Kiss a wookie, kick a droid
> Fly the falcon through an asteroid
> ...


Lol good stuff.


----------



## volly

Ok, I'll let on a little bit...

My current amps:

Schiit Asgard 2
Schiit Jotunheim
Schiit Vali 2
Schiit Mjolnir V1
Burson Soloist SL
Darkvoice
Graham Slee Novo

The SP200 is a beast! A transparent beast! Yet....smooth and highly resolving...without strain! Dead-Dead quiet, blackest background - as black as my Jot!

It is not a slow sounding amp but lightning quick, agile and walks a fine line between harsh and smooth, right in the centre! - This will come down to your other gear in the audio chain. I'm using a Theta DS Pro Progeny so it is more analogue sounding and fuller compared to my Bifrost DS. I tell ya though...the SP200 is able to dig deep in to what this old vintage DAC can produce and give you it whole, clear and transparent! My Edition X and AR-H1's just sounds right with this combo!

Imaging is top notch with SP200, the centre imaging is large and connects perfectly with L & R, tracks that pan L & R is eye catching, solid and coherent! Making the sound stage top tier amongst my other amps! Listening to Tool - Fear Innoculum and you get excellent instrument separation!

The top end is clear and extends precisely better than...say...my Jotunheim...heck even on par with my old Mjolnir! It's effortless and will really test your gear, I think my Edition X was ready to tap out with certain tracks but I was listening quiet loudly! 

Anyways...I'm starting to waffle on! I'll say this, Listening to this amp for a solid week was a joy! It really was...I didn't know what to expect other than some good info from this thread but I actually looking to buy another and retire some of my older gear! 

My biggest prop's...the SP200 is able to 'get out of the way' and just let you hear the rest of your gear and most importantly the MUSIC!

P.s.s - The size of this amp is stupid-good...if I was to buy another (which I will!) I could place two of them, side-by-side, on top of my Theta Progeny/Prime II stack and save even more space!


----------



## 340519

volly said:


> Ok, I'll let on a little bit...
> 
> My current amps:
> 
> ...


I agree 100%


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Aug 4, 2020)

I don't really want to "ruin" the excitement, but from my experience with SP200, pair with zmf verite and abyss diana v2, while it's sound sublime at the price, but still can not match the internal amplifier of questyle cma 600i in term of resolution, soundstage, and imaging. (FYI, I would put internal amplifier of CMA600i below wells audio milo vishay or violectric v281 or headamp gsx mk2)

Sure, SP200 sound clean, has great micro detail, no peaky frequency that I can speak about, however, it's still not a giant killer or able to replace thousands dollar amps by any means.

Still, a top notch amplifier for the price, and I can't really recommend other amps in this price range. Really great job from SMS indeed.


----------



## Cevisi

TheMiddleSky said:


> I don't really want to "ruin" the excitement, but from my experience with SP200, pair with zmf verite and abyss diana v2, while it's sound sublime at the price, but still can not match the internal amplifier of questyle cma 600i in term of resolution, soundstage, and imaging. (FYI, I would put internal amplifier of CMA600i below wells audio milo vishay or violectric v281 or headamp gsx mk2)
> 
> Sure, SP200 sound clean, has great micro detail, no peaky frequency that I can speak about, however, it's still not a giant killer or able to replace thousands dollar amps by any means.
> 
> Still, a top notch amplifier for the price, and I can't really recommend other amps in this price range. Really great job from SMS indeed.


Pssssst don't kill the bang for your buck cheap giantkiller out of china illusion


----------



## StarTreker

Thats right, when it comes to an amp that really whips that lama's ash, at the 300 dollar price range, (or bellow if its on sale) The SP200 mops the decks with anything that is cheaper. 

And if your coming from a simplistic cheapo Fiio D3 DAC, you will be amazed how much better things sound, once you upgrade to a M200 DAC! I also believe for 300 dollars, (unless its on sale too for cheaper) you can't really go wrong. 

Sure as far as amps are concerned, your gonna find some better ones in the thousands range. But here's the thing, not every audiophile has thousands of dollars to dump into an amp purchase. 

Heck, I've already spent more on the SP200 and M200 combined, over that of the amount I spent on my headphones!


----------



## oneway23

I don't think absolute arguments are very helpful when it comes to comparisons between products like this.  I think the more helpful question would be: How much more money, beyond the cost of the SP200, would one have to spend, in order to significantly better its performance?


----------



## H20Fidelity

Has anyone tried SP200 with an original HD800?


----------



## jincuteguy

Sadly, I'm returning my SP200. Because I got an A90 now


----------



## H20Fidelity

jincuteguy said:


> Sadly, I'm returning my SP200. Because I got an A90 now



What DAC and headphones were you using with SP200?


----------



## jincuteguy

H20Fidelity said:


> What DAC and headphones were you using with SP200?


Arya and DX7 Pro


----------



## 340519

jincuteguy said:


> Sadly, I'm returning my SP200. Because I got an A90 now


Too bad as the sp200 is incredibly good. One the best amps I've ever heard period. I can't wait to throw my Abyss 1266 TC Phi at it. It's that good.


----------



## volly

dmdm said:


> Too bad as the sp200 is incredibly good. One the best amps I've ever heard period. I can't wait to throw my Abyss 1266 TC Phi at it. It's that good.


I feel ya there, going back and forth with my other setups....dayum....there's just something (or nothing) special with this smsl amp! It just does what it does without batting an eye lid! I don't notice anything it does or doesn't do but what it does do right is literally music to my ears! 

I'm loving this amp with my Hifiman Edition X's, it just simply sings! This my desert island amp for sure! If I had nothing else...this one will suffice! 

Good enough that I'll be ordering a second one and letting go or furlough some of my other amps!

Is it just my unit or when you turn the volume knob up, it is like taking more crack cocaïne....?!


----------



## 340519

volly said:


> I feel ya there, going back and forth with my other setups....dayum....there's just something (or nothing) special with this smsl amp! It just does what it does without batting an eye lid! I don't notice anything it does or doesn't do but what it does do right is literally music to my ears!
> 
> I'm loving this amp with my Hifiman Edition X's, it just simply sings! This my desert island amp for sure! If I had nothing else...this one will suffice!
> 
> ...


Yes I would be happy with this amp of I could choose only one. It is that good. I feel a bit foolish spending so much more on the two bryston amps when the sp200 is just as good. And I have heard a lot of high quality amps and the sp200 is just as good as any I've come across. I would not even get the benchmark hpa4 as this sounds the same.


----------



## StarTreker

Hello guys!

The S.M.S.L SP200 & M200, are the best combination. The DAC provides the highest quality of sound that you can get, in digital conversion to analog, in this price range. There is just something to be said about quality chips in its lovely construction, and how they bring you quality sound conversion. 

And then, if your smart enough, you will realize the full potential power, of true auditorial bliss that you can receive, if you combine that with the delicious sound from the SP200 AMP. Its clean power with 0 noise floor, and analytical nature, is exactly what the doctor ordered. Highly detailed, 0 distortion, what more could you want? 

When I listen to music on my new setup, my technological nerd brain gets turned on.


----------



## H20Fidelity

I've ordered SP200 for HD800, will run it from a Pro-ject Box S2 DAC.

Pop in with some thoughts.


----------



## StarTreker

Well, my thoughts are, I am quite excited for you. The next battle will be comparing who's shwarts is bigger. (Space Balls humor)
😂


----------



## volly

H20Fidelity said:


> I've ordered SP200 for HD800, will run it from a Pro-ject Box S2 DAC.
> 
> Pop in with some thoughts.


What's your thoughts on the HD800 H20? Is it the "s" or OG HD800?

I haven't even gotten around to listening to the 600/650's on the Sp200 yet!


----------



## H20Fidelity

volly said:


> What's your thoughts on the HD800 H20? Is it the "s" or OG HD800?
> 
> I haven't even gotten around to listening to the 600/650's on the Sp200 yet!



I've owned both HD800S and now HD800, I much prefer the original by a lot. Its detailed vibrant and understandable why it was once the best headphone in the world. HD800S and I didn't get along as well, while I heard potential it reminds me of comments I've read that say HD800S removed all the energy the original had, that's how I heard it, more laid back and closer towards Senneshiers house sound of HD600/650 etc. It was detailed, it was nice but the original is my choice.


----------



## 340519

H20Fidelity said:


> I've ordered SP200 for HD800, will run it from a Pro-ject Box S2 DAC.
> 
> Pop in with some thoughts.


Excellent congrats!


----------



## volly

H20Fidelity said:


> I've owned both HD800S and now HD800, I much prefer the original by a lot. Its detailed vibrant and understandable why it was once the best headphone in the world. HD800S and I didn't get along as well, while I heard potential it reminds me of comments I've read that say HD800S removed all the energy the original had, that's how I heard it, more laid back and closer towards Senneshiers house sound of HD600/650 etc. It was detailed, it was nice but the original is my choice.


See how you travel, not sure on the S2 Dac but I will say the Sp200 will definitely reveal what your signal chain can do!

Will be interesting what the Sp200 can do with the HD800!


----------



## ultraman31

Has anyone tried the SP200 and iFi Zen Can? I'm trying to decide between to and it's really difficult to get comparison as both are fairly new to the market...


----------



## volly

Alright, managed to give the Edition X's a break, I'm gonna give the HD650's a run on the SP200!

Be back later...


----------



## mesiax

Hi guys, new in the forum... I am not an audiophyle, but, I like listening to music very much... Recently I bought a Sennheiser HD660s... When connected to PC directly (msi carbon pro WiFi x570 motherboard, It is supposed to manage up to 600 ohms cans) the sound disappointed me... I got a fiio a5, the sound improved a bit, but, you know, I expected much more (I do not think headphones having any issue, but maybe...). Now, I am about to get this combo dx7pro(600€) + smsl sp200(260€) + mogami xlr cables (60-70€) to get some of the sound I guess these headphones could offer... I am also interested in D90 + A90 combo but doubled the budget vs dx7pro + smsl sp200, and I spent 400€ with the headphones, so, what you think guys?, I also was seing schiit stuff etc..., And maybe in the future I get some tube hybrid cheap stuff, as for instance Bravo Ocean to experiment a bit rolling valves... But what about dx7pro + smsl sp200 thx, could be a good combination for hd660s?... Does d90+a90 improvement really justify almost double price with those mid-high headphones?... Thanks a lot...


----------



## volly

mesiax said:


> Hi guys, new in the forum... I am not an audiophyle, but, I like listening to music very much... Recently I bought a Sennheiser HD660s... When connected to PC directly (msi carbon pro WiFi x570 motherboard, It is supposed to manage up to 600 ohms cans) the sound disappointed me... I got a fiio a5, the sound improved a bit, but, you know, I expected much more (I do not think headphones having any issue, but maybe...). Now, I am about to get this combo dx7pro(600€) + smsl sp200(260€) + mogami xlr cables (60-70€) to get some of the sound I guess these headphones could offer... I am also interested in D90 + A90 combo but doubled the budget vs dx7pro + smsl sp200, and I spent 400€ with the headphones, so, what you think guys?, I also was seing schiit stuff etc..., And maybe in the future I get some tube hybrid cheap stuff, as for instance Bravo Ocean to experiment a bit rolling valves... But what about dx7pro + smsl sp200 thx, could be a good combination for hd660s?... Does d90+a90 improvement really justify almost double price with those mid-high headphones?... Thanks a lot...


Offftttt...sounds like you're on a slippery slope my friend, although you've started at a great place with the HD660s!

If money is no object, then sure, go the D90/A90 combo and be done! But if you're on a budget then maybe go the SP200 with the M200 DAC from SMSL, I believe @StarTreker may give you some impressions! 

My advice for anyone starting out, would be, to have a good solid DAC/AMP that is within your budget and one that *synergies* with your headphones!

The HD660s are fairly neutral, so they will be more honest with your setup!

Schiit have great models and I've seen people happy aF with a Modi/Magni3 combo or if you want to try tubes, then the Vali 2 is a decent start! The only probably is the US dollar vs your currency! 

Hope this helps and good luck!


----------



## mesiax (Aug 14, 2020)

Thank you very much @volly for responding so soon, I really appreciate your advice ... Initially the idea is to buy only the dx7pro, because from what I have read out there it seems a very balanced equipment at a good price. Maybe listening to the amp it brings itself is enough for me now... On a page in Spanish I saw a review where an smsl200 was connected to the dx7pro to "give it a little push" ...
https://gouforit.com/topping-dx7-pro-dac-amplificador-opinion-review/
I have read wonders about the d90 / a90 combo, but with mqa (I also don't know if the d90 mqa vs d90 is worth much) the price goes up a lot for an aspiring audiophile newbie as me ... does the d90 improve the sound so much compared to the dx7pro as a DAC?, I mean, dx7pro/a90 vs d90/a90, for instance, how do they sound in comparison (200€-300€ of difference give or take)?, does anyone have those combinations and could say what do you think? ...Someone has the combo dx7pro and a90 and could say how it works?...thanks


----------



## StarTreker

I love how you say your not an audiophile. 

Guess what?

Too late! Your already an audiophile. 

And like Volly said, you've already fallen down the rabbit hole, into the deliciousness of auditorial bliss perfection my friend. 

I think your going to love your new setup! 

And by the time your setup is complete and cranked up, its gonna really whip that lama's ash.........From every direction.


----------



## mesiax




----------



## H20Fidelity (Aug 17, 2020)

I've had SP200 here around 24-hours with HD800.

Its quite an accurate well-refined amp, everything is well controlled from top to bottom, plenty of power on low-gain to drive the HD800, no need to go past 9-10 o-clock on the volume dial. When using ASIO4ALL and adjusting the buffer size from Windows I can strangely alter the tonality of my dac/amp slightly with a lower buffer size being slightly brighter. Suits me...


----------



## volly

H20Fidelity said:


> I've had SP200 here around 24-hours with HD800.
> 
> Its quite an accurate well-refined amp, everything is well controlled from top to bottom, plenty of power on low-gain to drive the HD800, no need to go past 9-10 o-clock on the volume dial. When using ASIO4ALL and adjusting the buffer size from Windows I can strangely alter the tonality of my dac/amp slightly with a lower buffer size being slightly brighter. Suits me...


Pay attention to the High's and tell us what you think of how the Sp200 handles them, will be interesting to your thoughts!


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## H20Fidelity (Aug 18, 2020)

volly said:


> Pay attention to the High's and tell us what you think of how the Sp200 handles them, will be interesting to your thoughts!



I'm familiar with HD800's touchy treble, SP200 keeps the highs quite refined and any peaks to a minimum, listened for couple of hours straight

I wouldn't call it a bright pairing for my preferences, its still pretty smooth and colourless. The last dac/amp I was using (Matrix M-stage) had  touchy treble with HD800, it was also less refined but with some nice aggressive bite/detail. Not sure what your view on cables is but I'm only using some cheap eBay RCAs atm from the dac to amp, I'm waiting on a custom silver-plated cable to arrive.

I'm quite happy with the amp overall.


----------



## volly

H20Fidelity said:


> I'm familiar with HD800's touchy treble, SP200 keeps the highs quite refined and any peaks to a minimum, listened for couple of hours straight
> 
> I wouldn't call it a bright pairing for my preferences, its still pretty smooth and colourless. The last dac/amp I was using (Matrix M-stage) had  touchy treble with HD800, it was also less refined but with some nice aggressive bite/detail. Not sure what your view on cables is but I'm only using some cheap eBay RCAs atm from the dac to amp, I'm waiting on a custom silver-plated cable to arrive.
> 
> I'm quite happy with the amp overall.


Excellent, that's what I'm sensing from my Sp200, I was expecting bright and brittle treble, fake resolution from poorly designed amps, as you will! I was quite surprised how open and honest, yet exacting the sound is portrayed with this amp! I'll be ordering another Sp200 this week for my Theta DS Pro Prime II as my first Sp200 is just sensationl with the Progeny, only my Mjolnir comes close to synergising this well with this DAC! 

Can you listen, next, to the sound stage or head stage, particular to the centre channel (especially on the HD800). I find my centre channel is huge and melds in to the left/right channels and is seamless when panning from left to right. Very holographic! See what you find!?

As for cables, you don't have to spend much but as long they are well put together, I have a few silver cables here and there and TBH, there isn't much to be gained here! Perhaps a little here or there but it's not really worth it! Especially with headphone listening!

this video might provide another's opinion on the subject! (Sorry for off-topic!)


----------



## StarTreker

My view on the subject, is its not so much what the metal is made of in regards to the conductor, its more about how much of it that there is. Going from 28-gauge AUX cables to 22-gauge AUX cables made enough of an impact, that I was able to hear more details in the sound. I used to use a cheap Ivanky cable, but now I am using a 22-gauge Canare Star Quad cable to connect my cans to the amp. Also, I use 22-gauge Monoprice RCA cables that link my DAC to the EQ box, and the EQ box to the AMP.

I don't think its a smart idea to go down the rabbit hole buying cables with silver, your just buying lengthy jewlery. And if you have people over who know about it, likely to get it stolen. There is no way in heck, that silver is going to make your cable any better. Silver is not even known to be the best conductor! Copper is a better conductor, and gold is known to be the best conductor. And unless your cable is completely 100% oxygen free, silver tends to corrode and get black.

Here are pics of the cables that I use in my setup...


----------



## H20Fidelity

Sorry guys, my DAC bricked last night doing a firmware update.

I'll check back in at a later date.


----------



## StarTreker

H20Fidelity said:


> Sorry guys, my DAC bricked last night doing a firmware update.
> 
> I'll check back in at a later date.



And that my friend, is why you fail...

All kidding aside, I don't do firmware updates for that very reason, you have a 90% chance of bricking your unit by doing so. Having said that however, if you followed the exact procedures as listed officially on their site, legally, they have to replace your unit under the warranty. If you were trying to jailbreak the device using an unofficial hack, your screwed.

Yes, please do update us on the results of your situation as it unfolds. And for those who might be curious, I never did a firmware update and mine still works.

But your not the only one who makes mistakes dude. I admit, I have a scooter that I once connected the battery up wrong on the polarity, the stupid connector that is supposed to not allow you to do that, allowed the pins to make contact, and I instantly blew the motor controller, and popped those caps like sweet Misties cherry. Had to order a new motor controller. It happens, I just hope your situation ends with a positive result in the end.


----------



## volly

H20Fidelity said:


> Sorry guys, my DAC bricked last night doing a firmware update.
> 
> I'll check back in at a later date.


Damn brother, hope you sort it out! Do you have any spare DAC's are the place?


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## H20Fidelity

I purchased a cheap  Matrix DAC/amp to get by but it's not the same.

Everything related to the SP200 amp is on hold for now.


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## StarTreker

Welcome to the Matrix, take the blue pill, and just forget everything that you just seen.


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## MRHiFiReviews (Aug 19, 2020)

mesiax said:


> Hi guys, new in the forum... I am not an audiophyle, but, I like listening to music very much... Recently I bought a Sennheiser HD660s... When connected to PC directly (msi carbon pro WiFi x570 motherboard, It is supposed to manage up to 600 ohms cans) the sound disappointed me... I got a fiio a5, the sound improved a bit, but, you know, I expected much more (I do not think headphones having any issue, but maybe...). Now, I am about to get this combo dx7pro(600€) + smsl sp200(260€) + mogami xlr cables (60-70€) to get some of the sound I guess these headphones could offer... I am also interested in D90 + A90 combo but doubled the budget vs dx7pro + smsl sp200, and I spent 400€ with the headphones, so, what you think guys?, I also was seing schiit stuff etc..., And maybe in the future I get some tube hybrid cheap stuff, as for instance Bravo Ocean to experiment a bit rolling valves... But what about dx7pro + smsl sp200 thx, could be a good combination for hd660s?... Does d90+a90 improvement really justify almost double price with those mid-high headphones?... Thanks a lot...



Hey @mesiax welcome to the forum!  I did a review on the A90 and discussed some advantages of the A90 as well as some advantages the SMSL SP200 THX has, I currently have both on hand.  I also used the D90 from topping with both.  Hope it helps

Topping A90 Headphone Amplifier Review, The Best Reference Headphone Amp Under $500?


----------



## loregnum

mesiax said:


> Hi guys, new in the forum... I am not an audiophyle, but, I like listening to music very much... Recently I bought a Sennheiser HD660s... When connected to PC directly (msi carbon pro WiFi x570 motherboard, It is supposed to manage up to 600 ohms cans) the sound disappointed me... I got a fiio a5, the sound improved a bit, but, you know, I expected much more (I do not think headphones having any issue, but maybe...). Now, I am about to get this combo dx7pro(600€) + smsl sp200(260€) + mogami xlr cables (60-70€) to get some of the sound I guess these headphones could offer... I am also interested in D90 + A90 combo but doubled the budget vs dx7pro + smsl sp200, and I spent 400€ with the headphones, so, what you think guys?, I also was seing schiit stuff etc..., And maybe in the future I get some tube hybrid cheap stuff, as for instance Bravo Ocean to experiment a bit rolling valves... But what about dx7pro + smsl sp200 thx, could be a good combination for hd660s?... Does d90+a90 improvement really justify almost double price with those mid-high headphones?... Thanks a lot...



I can't comment on the D90 but I got the A90 yesterday and was previously using the SP200. The A90 is incredible and its improvement in sound over the SP200 has surprised me since I didn't really upgrade to it with the expectation of some clear difference in sound and got it for other reasons like having a true balanced out, less channel imbalance with the pot turned really low, a gain setting with no added boost (SP200 is +6db even on low) and a better feeling volume knob/pot. I thought that if there was any change, it'd be very minor (as in you'd think maybe it was just placebo) but it is absolutely there to the point I know it isn't all in my head. The biggest change is with bass where it is more impactful and tighter on the A90. I also feel as though the A90 has a bit more clarity and depth to the soundstage which makes some micro detail easier or more obvious to hear. Those things are perhaps all in my head/placebo but the bass improvement definitely isn't. The A90 also seems to have a blacker background. I thought the SP200's noise floor was outside of audible range yet it apparently isn't quite there.

I also thought the SP200 measured flat in frequency response the entire audible spectrum but the fact it has less bass makes me think maybe it has some slight dip down low or maybe there is just something weird about my SP200. The A90 has been measured to be ruler flat to beyond human hearing so it's not like it is jacking up bass and the measurements show its distortion and noise control measurements are through the roof which means it is simply an incredibly transparent amp which is IMO, how an amp is supposed to be. For me, colouration and changes/preferences to what the source/music sounds like should be done at the speaker/headphone or EQ level, not chain components like amps and DACs which should be as transparent as possible.

The SP200 is a solid amp, especially for the price, but if you can swing buying the A90, definitely do it. I am using the Focal Stellia with a XLR balanced cable with it. I also tested my Aeon 2 Closed with an unbalanced cable and the improvement was clearly there as well so not just some balanced out thing.

As for the D90, no idea since I am using the well performing SPSL M300 Mk2. I'm now contemplating getting the D90 to see if there is any audible difference to the M300 (theory and data says there should not be) but I'll need it to be back in stock via "fulfilled by Amazon" at Amazon Canada so I can easily return it if there is no difference.


----------



## mesiax

Thank you very much @MRphotography and @loregnum, your comments are very useful for me ... Hopefully someone else who has had the opportunity to use dx7pro vs dx7pro (dac) / a90 vs d90 / a90 can contribute their conclusions. Obviously d90 / a90 should be the best option, but I would like to know if the difference with the other options is small or if the improvement is really noticeable. Right now I'm opting to get dx7pro alone and in the future get the amp. I was thinking of smsl sp200, but loregnum's words make me doubt ... I know it may be silly to buy dx7pro instead of d90 if the idea in the end is to add an amp, but now I could use dx7pro as a combo (in addition to being more cheap, people talk good about dx7pro as dac) ... and then later add a90 ... It's all a mystery xDD ... The key for me is if anyone can compare dx7pro (dac) / a90 vs d90 / a90 and how much real difference in sound there is when paired with HD660s or similar headphones ...


----------



## StarTreker

Combo units are generally not as well reviewed as dedicated independent units. Originally, I was going to get a combo unit, until I found out that combo units, while providing convenience, and generally lower cost, don't really perform as good as dedicated units. Generally the consensus is that the amps in them do not perform as good. So I made the decision to buy separate units, and I never regretted that decision since.

According to Head-Fi, loregnum quoted me as a recent post, but I don't see the quote, so I am a bit lost there lol.


----------



## Arniesb

StarTreker said:


> Combo units are generally not as well reviewed as dedicated independent units. Originally, I was going to get a combo unit, until I found out that combo units, while providing convenience, and generally lower cost, don't really perform as good as dedicated units. Generally the consensus is that the amps in them do not perform as good. So I made the decision to buy separate units, and I never regretted that decision since.
> 
> According to Head-Fi, loregnum quoted me as a recent post, but I don't see the quote, so I am a bit lost there lol.


Excatly and i simply cant uderstand very dumb attachment to 1 COMPANY. If company make 1 great product then everybody didnt even listen other product and just buy it, because it looks COOL stacked! Others think that if company make great amp then everything they touch becomes gold... Why it should be that way? I dont believe any of marketing guru that claims all of their products are excellent.


----------



## StarTreker

Yep, when it comes to my outdoor power equipment and other tools I use, each one is a different brand. I buy based on what I need for features and quality, and what is a good price for them. I use reviews to help me decide as well, and brand loyalty isn't as big of a thing with me as it is for some others, thats for sure lol.


----------



## DmitriyV

Hi guys, looking for an advice here. Out of covid related boredom I have recently decided to upgrade a bit my listening experience.  I'm currently using Hifiman Sundara + Topping DX3 pro combo. Having read (and seen) all those super positive reviews of both those products my expectations were high. And indeed, the level of details I can hear is simply amazing. Yet listening to mostly rock / metal music I find that it sounds a bit flattish. I miss the dynamics, punch and slam I was getting form my cheap  old closed back headphones. 

Now I noticed I usually have to go pretty much close to 0 db level on low gain and ~ -10 db on high gain to bring some juice to the sound which in case of calm instrumental music is perfectly alright, but again with rock/ metal it makes my ears bleed from highs and mid range screaming like hell while bass is still not quite there. One option of course would be to EQ with Peace, but I do not like much the idea as I want to get same experience from PC via usb and bluetooth connections. So having said that I started to wonder if going with a more powerful amp would do the trick. And from combination of power / quality / affordability SMSL SP200 looks like a perfect match to me.

Having said that - I would appreciate your opinions on whether it would really noticeably improve listening experience with Sundaras or the improvement (if any) would be too subtle to make it worth buying the amp?


----------



## StarTreker

DmitriyV said:


> Hi guys, looking for an advice here. Out of covid related boredom I have recently decided to upgrade a bit my listening experience.  I'm currently using Hifiman Sundara + Topping DX3 pro combo. Having read (and seen) all those super positive reviews of both those products my expectations were high. And indeed, the level of details I can hear is simply amazing. Yet listening to mostly rock / metal music I find that it sounds a bit flattish. I miss the dynamics, punch and slam I was getting form my cheap  old closed back headphones.
> 
> Now I noticed I usually have to go pretty much close to 0 db level on low gain and ~ -10 db on high gain to bring some juice to the sound which in case of calm instrumental music is perfectly alright, but again with rock/ metal it makes my ears bleed from highs and mid range screaming like hell while bass is still not quite there. One option of course would be to EQ with Peace, but I do not like much the idea as I want to get same experience from PC via usb and bluetooth connections. So having said that I started to wonder if going with a more powerful amp would do the trick. And from combination of power / quality / affordability SMSL SP200 looks like a perfect match to me.
> 
> Having said that - I would appreciate your opinions on whether it would really noticeably improve listening experience with Sundaras or the improvement (if any) would be too subtle to make it worth buying the amp?




The S.M.S.L SP200 is a very analytical amp. It will provide you with lots of delicious details in the sound. However, it does not color the sound, and alter it in a way that it is not. Which means, it will simply amplify what you have in the chain. And so if your sound from the chain is crap sounding, so will it be through the amp. It sounds like to me, your suffering from high frequency overdrive. Your trying to hear that bass slam, and bass requires more power then high frequencies do to produce.

To get the best sound, you want your computer at 100%, you want your DAC set to 0DB, and then you just set the gain on your amp to achieve the bass slam your looking for. However, due to your description, it does sound like you need to tone down the high frequencies a bit. I recommend that you do some EQ to correct that. You have 2-choices there, you can either install a software APP like APO for Windows, and it works pretty darn well for a software EQ app.

Or, you can do what I did, and get yourself a hardware based EQ unit, and stick it in the chain just before the amp. A word of caution, when it comes to using EQ, always drop the gain on the EQ to -DB levels. Because if you don't, you will end up double amplifying, and that will cause distortion and or crackle.


----------



## DmitriyV

StarTreker said:


> The S.M.S.L SP200 is a very analytical amp. It will provide you with lots of delicious details in the sound. However, it does not color the sound, and alter it in a way that it is not. Which means, it will simply amplify what you have in the chain. And so if your sound from the chain is crap sounding, so will it be through the amp. It sounds like to me, your suffering from high frequency overdrive. Your trying to hear that bass slam, and bass requires more power then high frequencies do to produce.
> 
> To get the best sound, you want your computer at 100%, you want your DAC set to 0DB, and then you just set the gain on your amp to achieve the bass slam your looking for. However, due to your description, it does sound like you need to tone down the high frequencies a bit. I recommend that you do some EQ to correct that. You have 2-choices there, you can either install a software APP like APO for Windows, and it works pretty darn well for a software EQ app.
> 
> Or, you can do what I did, and get yourself a hardware based EQ unit, and stick it in the chain just before the amp. A word of caution, when it comes to using EQ, always drop the gain on the EQ to -DB levels. Because if you don't, you will end up double amplifying, and that will cause distortion and or crackle.



Thanks for the answer! I am still puzzled though if a separate amp would make any difference in my case. The thing is that I read here a couple of completely opposite opinions on same matter. One was that DX3 pro cannot drive Sundaras to their full potential, so a more powerful amp like Atom, SP200 or Drop THX 789 is something that should solve the problem. Another was that there is no audiable difference between DX3 pro alone and DX pro + Atom. This is what confuses me  I am not super impressed with the sound I get, but literally all the reviews I've seen on both headphone and dac/amp I use tell me that it should be at least mind blowing considering that I switched from Audio Technica ATH-AVC500 + E-MU 0204 USB 

But genreally, if we abstract away from my particular case - how likely is it that an amp is producing decent volume but lacks on bass? Taking it to extreme - if I take a weak amp and set it to volume where it can play without too much of distortion and then compare it with the sound from a significantly more powerful amp - how likely is it that the more powerful amp is goint to sound MUCH better on same volume (lets consider that first amp is decent quality but just underpowered for the heaphone we use)?


----------



## MCCare

Would you guys recommend the SP200 with the topping E30?


----------



## volly

A pigeon pair...


LEFT: Theta DS Pro Progeny & SP200 

Right: Theta DS Pro Prime II & SP200 (Balanced throughout)

It's rare in this hobby to be contempt, but right now....I'm there!


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## StarTreker (Sep 3, 2020)

volly said:


> A pigeon pair...
> 
> LEFT: Theta DS Pro Progeny & SP200
> 
> ...




JUDGE: "Volly, I find you in contempt of court."

VOLLY: "But your honor, what did I do?"

JUDGE: "You don't know your left from your right, and your confusing the jury"


----------



## volly

StarTreker said:


> JUDGE: "Volly, I find you in contempt of court."
> 
> VOLLY: "But your honor, what did I do?"
> 
> JUDGE: "You don't know your left from your right, and your confusing the jury"


----------



## StarTreker

volly said:


>



Your awesome Volly, love having you on the forum. We live in such dark times, and anytime someone can put a smile on my face, its appreciated. Now, once your done having fun with auditorial bliss, you may address the forum, and tell us what you think of your new setup.


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## DmitriyV

ok guys, so if anyone's interested in how it ended up for me - I read few more threads with opinions ranging from 'Sundara needs at least 4 watts of power to driver it properly' and ending with 'you dont need an amp for Sundara', so finally i decided to give it a try and ordered an SP-200. Recieved it yesterday, connected to my DX-3 pro (as DAC) and... no magic happened...  the amp sounds a bit smoother with a tiny bit less sharpness in treble. It can drive the heapdhone to higher maximal volume, but even DX-3 pro built in amp drives it to above comfortable levels of volume on high gain already, so additional volume is not really an advantage here. 

Otherwise, from sound quality perspective or so much anticipated additional bass  - nothing much happened, so at least now I know that probably I really need to go for EQ.. or even consider different headphone in the future go get the sound I am looking for. I do not regret spending money on this one as now I at least have peace of mind knowing I've got a pretty decent amp and it is not the bottle-neck of my system


----------



## StarTreker

DmitriyV said:


> ok guys, so if anyone's interested in how it ended up for me - I read few more threads with opinions ranging from 'Sundara needs at least 4 watts of power to driver it properly' and ending with 'you dont need an amp for Sundara', so finally i decided to give it a try and ordered an SP-200. Recieved it yesterday, connected to my DX-3 pro (as DAC) and... no magic happened...  the amp sounds a bit smoother with a tiny bit less sharpness in treble. It can drive the heapdhone to higher maximal volume, but even DX-3 pro built in amp drives it to above comfortable levels of volume on high gain already, so additional volume is not really an advantage here.
> 
> Otherwise, from sound quality perspective or so much anticipated additional bass  - nothing much happened, so at least now I know that probably I really need to go for EQ.. or even consider different headphone in the future go get the sound I am looking for. I do not regret spending money on this one as now I at least have peace of mind knowing I've got a pretty decent amp and it is not the bottle-neck of my system



Way to go Dmitriy congrats!!!   

OK, yes I know, you were trying to achieve absolute perfection and didn't quite achieve it. But just as you said, you made an excellent purchase and now own an excellent amp, and so you can now always rule out the amp, because at 16 OHMS, you got a whopping 6 watts going into cans, or at 32 OHMS, you got 3 watts going into them, either way, its plenty on HIGH gain.

How is the line level output from your DAC when you put your DAC to max volume? Whats the SPEC on that unit, does it provide at least a 2V line level in its full output? Because if it does provide at least a 2V line level output at max volume, then there is nothing wrong with your DAC either!

So, in that case, I will have to agree, your going to need some EQ, but thats not the end of the world! If software EQ is available to you in an option that is going to work, you can always try using that. However, if that is not an option, just as it wasn't for me, you could always buy a hardware EQ box. I bought my vintage box used for around 45 dollars on Ebay, but you can buy brand new ones that are 12-band for around 150 dollars I believe that will do the job.


----------



## volly

DmitriyV said:


> ok guys, so if anyone's interested in how it ended up for me - I read few more threads with opinions ranging from 'Sundara needs at least 4 watts of power to driver it properly' and ending with 'you dont need an amp for Sundara', so finally i decided to give it a try and ordered an SP-200. Recieved it yesterday, connected to my DX-3 pro (as DAC) and... no magic happened...  the amp sounds a bit smoother with a tiny bit less sharpness in treble. It can drive the heapdhone to higher maximal volume, but even DX-3 pro built in amp drives it to above comfortable levels of volume on high gain already, so additional volume is not really an advantage here.
> 
> Otherwise, from sound quality perspective or so much anticipated additional bass  - nothing much happened, so at least now I know that probably I really need to go for EQ.. or even consider different headphone in the future go get the sound I am looking for. I do not regret spending money on this one as now I at least have peace of mind knowing I've got a pretty decent amp and it is not the bottle-neck of my system


Always trust your ears brother! 

What music you listening to mate?


----------



## DmitriyV

StarTreker said:


> Way to go Dmitriy congrats!!!
> 
> OK, yes I know, you were trying to achieve absolute perfection and didn't quite achieve it. But just as you said, you made an excellent purchase and now own an excellent amp, and so you can now always rule out the amp, because at 16 OHMS, you got a whopping 6 watts going into cans, or at 32 OHMS, you got 3 watts going into them, either way, its plenty on HIGH gain.
> 
> ...



Thanks! according to specs DX-3 does output 2V in DAC mode, so it should be ok I think. I am now starting to think about a hardware EQ box as you suggested. Is there anything particular to look for? Like brand, specs, etc.. haven't done much research on this topic yet


----------



## DmitriyV

volly said:


> Always trust your ears brother!
> 
> What music you listening to mate?



my ears (or maybe rather brain) tend to play tricks on me sometimes  I noticed that percieved sound quality can be pretty much different depending on many factors like how well I slept, mood, etc. But I guess I am not the only one  

I mostly listen to rock / metal, so solid quick bass is a must for me, otherwise instead of a thick guitar riff it may sound like some high pitch jigsaw noise. That's exactly how it sounded to me when I switched to Sundara initially. Good thing is that it got mostly solved after proper burn-in. Yet there is definately some space for improvement... well, as always.  But generally I do listen to other genres as well -  everything depends on mood and where will random playlist take me on Deezer (I do usually get lossless versions of what I like most though)


----------



## StarTreker

DmitriyV said:


> Thanks! according to specs DX-3 does output 2V in DAC mode, so it should be ok I think. I am now starting to think about a hardware EQ box as you suggested. Is there anything particular to look for? Like brand, specs, etc.. haven't done much research on this topic yet



If your looking to buy brand spanken new, I think the *ART EQ355 Dual Channel 31-Band Equalizer* would be an excellent choice. The reason I say that, is because the back of the unit contains all the input and output types you would ever need, to set this unit up in your system chain. You might need to buy a few extra cables sure, but its a guaranteed solution. And because it has so many bands, you will have all that you need, to adjust your sound to your liking. Remember, its a dual channel setup, so one side will adjust your left channel, and the other side will adjust your right channel. 

FYI, your GAIN is the knob that says LEVEL. So, when using that ART EQ255, if you plan to raise any of those frequencies up, your going to have to keep the LEVEL knob well into the negative, to prevent distortion. See how I am doing that with my EQ box?







Now, if your looking to buy used to save some money, you could buy the same EQ box that I have, but be warned, it only has RCA inputs and outputs on the back of the unit. 
Used Realistic 12-Band Equalizer 

Also keep in mind, if you do buy it used, as I did, some of the frequency sliders had dust in them, and needed a cleanout, which I used a product called De-Oxit for that. You can learn how to clean potentiometer knobs and switches by watching Youtube video's demonstrating how to do it.


----------



## alphaman

I've lived with this amp for about 90 days. (It replaced my diy Tangent PPAv2 with Elpac 24v power adapter). And now I'm back to my 12-year-old PPAv2 project, which I'm going to stick with for my main setup (I have other setups that I may sub. in the sp200).
Coming back to the PPA2, I really, really missed crossfeed (that was an optional Tangent project -- see his website). And, most importantly, I missed the over all richer, higher-quality sound quality. 
The sp200 really only sounded superior for one headphone in my collection ... dt-880-250. The extra power of the sp100's "high gain" makes a difference here. If I can some day tweak the PPA2 for higher power, I'm sure that will be important for coupling with  dt-880-250.


----------



## volly

alphaman said:


> I've lived with this amp for about 90 days. (It replaced my diy Tangent PPAv2 with Elpac 24v power adapter). And now I'm back to my 12-year-old PPAv2 project, which I'm going to stick with for my main setup (I have other setups that I may sub. in the sp200).
> Coming back to the PPA2, I really, really missed crossfeed (that was an optional Tangent project -- see his website). And, most importantly, I missed the over all richer, higher-quality sound quality.
> The sp200 really only sounded superior for one headphone in my collection ... dt-880-250. The extra power of the sp100's "high gain" makes a difference here. If I can some day tweak the PPA2 for higher power, I'm sure that will be important for coupling with  dt-880-250.


Go check out the New T1.3 thread my friend, 32Ohm beast, from early reports, Beyer have a stunner!

I've been enjoying my time with the Elear's and Edition X, had the 600/650's through Progeny/SP200 and that sounded pretty nice! Very chilled experience with the Sennheiser's! I will be giving the Nighthawk's a fair-go soon and maybe my Amiron's!


----------



## volly

DmitriyV said:


> my ears (or maybe rather brain) tend to play tricks on me sometimes  I noticed that percieved sound quality can be pretty much different depending on many factors like how well I slept, mood, etc. But I guess I am not the only one
> 
> I mostly listen to rock / metal, so solid quick bass is a must for me, otherwise instead of a thick guitar riff it may sound like some high pitch jigsaw noise. That's exactly how it sounded to me when I switched to Sundara initially. Good thing is that it got mostly solved after proper burn-in. Yet there is definately some space for improvement... well, as always.  But generally I do listen to other genres as well -  everything depends on mood and where will random playlist take me on Deezer (I do usually get lossless versions of what I like most though)


Ahhhh....I hear the Sundara are very subtle and beautiful headphones, it's probably quick enough with Rock/Metal but the bass is leaving you wanting more? I will say, the SP200 does not seemingly over empathize anything it gets feed through to it! If your DAC is flat, then the SP200 will magnify this and then, if you're headphones are flat/neutral, it will project this even further! It is not that the gear is inferior, infact, it is just doing it's job! I really love the SP200 because it eliminates one part of the signal chain and gets me that much closer to the music! Take the 'Clean window' analogy, if you will!

I highly recommend the Focal Elear for Rock/Metal if you really want to feel that kick drum brother! 

P.s. Can you swap out the pads for PU Leather Pads, back in the day, you could replace the pads with leather and give you greater bass response?!


----------



## volly

StarTreker said:


> If your looking to buy brand spanken new, I think the *ART EQ355 Dual Channel 31-Band Equalizer* would be an excellent choice. The reason I say that, is because the back of the unit contains all the input and output types you would ever need, to set this unit up in your system chain. You might need to buy a few extra cables sure, but its a guaranteed solution. And because it has so many bands, you will have all that you need, to adjust your sound to your liking. Remember, its a dual channel setup, so one side will adjust your left channel, and the other side will adjust your right channel.
> 
> FYI, your GAIN is the knob that says LEVEL. So, when using that ART EQ255, if you plan to raise any of those frequencies up, your going to have to keep the LEVEL knob well into the negative, to prevent distortion. See how I am doing that with my EQ box?
> 
> ...


Bro, I need more comments on the SM200 Dac, for a future pairing!


----------



## ruinedx (Sep 4, 2020)

DmitriyV said:


> ok guys, so if anyone's interested in how it ended up for me - I read few more threads with opinions ranging from 'Sundara needs at least 4 watts of power to driver it properly' and ending with 'you dont need an amp for Sundara', so finally i decided to give it a try and ordered an SP-200. Recieved it yesterday, connected to my DX-3 pro (as DAC) and... no magic happened...  the amp sounds a bit smoother with a tiny bit less sharpness in treble. It can drive the heapdhone to higher maximal volume, but even DX-3 pro built in amp drives it to above comfortable levels of volume on high gain already, so additional volume is not really an advantage here.
> 
> Otherwise, from sound quality perspective or so much anticipated additional bass  - nothing much happened, so at least now I know that probably I really need to go for EQ.. or even consider different headphone in the future go get the sound I am looking for. I do not regret spending money on this one as now I at least have peace of mind knowing I've got a pretty decent amp and it is not the bottle-neck of my system



The amp/dac is still the bottleneck of your system.

What you should do is buy a Monolith LP and put in a pair of tubes with solid bass.  Topping/SMSL (same parent company) are known to be of poor quality sound or at best mediocre quality sound.  A lot fall for their marketing tho and then wonder why things sound bad.

Check this out:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...platinum-by-alex-cavalli.876406/post-15633083


----------



## StarTreker

volly said:


> Bro, I need more comments on the SM200 Dac, for a future pairing!



I tried to PM you but your profile is set to private. Please PM me and I might have more information for you.


----------



## DmitriyV

StarTreker said:


> If your looking to buy brand spanken new, I think the *ART EQ355 Dual Channel 31-Band Equalizer* would be an excellent choice. The reason I say that, is because the back of the unit contains all the input and output types you would ever need, to set this unit up in your system chain. You might need to buy a few extra cables sure, but its a guaranteed solution. And because it has so many bands, you will have all that you need, to adjust your sound to your liking. Remember, its a dual channel setup, so one side will adjust your left channel, and the other side will adjust your right channel.
> 
> FYI, your GAIN is the knob that says LEVEL. So, when using that ART EQ255, if you plan to raise any of those frequencies up, your going to have to keep the LEVEL knob well into the negative, to prevent distortion. See how I am doing that with my EQ box?
> 
> ...



thanks for the detailed advice man! I've been staying in the Philiippines for some time now. If you are in PH, buying anything from Ebay is a bit of pain - on top of quite expensive shipping, customs clearence is a nightmare (expensive plus unreliable plus might take forever) - only if you are not buying from some local online shops like Lazada which appear to have managed to arrange smooth delivery process. So I have little choice but to experiment with software EQ for now


----------



## DmitriyV

ruinedx said:


> The amp/dac is still the bottleneck of your system.
> 
> What you should do is buy a Monolith LP and put in a pair of tubes with solid bass.  Topping/SMSL (same parent company) are known to be of poor quality sound or at best mediocre quality sound.  A lot fall for their marketing tho and then wonder why things sound bad.
> 
> ...



Well, I guess ideal case would be if I could try particular headphone / DAC / AMP combo before buying, and I am sure I would come up with completely different set of hardware if I had a chance to, but this is not an option for me as there is literally not a single hifi store around me - so I had exactly one chance to pick particular piece. And what people do in such cases - they read / watch reviews to decide what to buy - so did I  Literally every single review I saw on Sundara, DX3 and SP200 were super positive. I cant imagine all of those reviews to be paid (along with many positive feedback on this very forum), so it must be not so bad I guess. 

Just that it doesnt fit much my expectations for enjoyable sound.. musicality, not sure how to describe this. I mean it sounds super clean and detailed, no distortion whatsoever audible to my poorly trained ears.. but somehow It does not drive this euphoria from listening to an amazing song that I used to enjoy so much on way  cheeper systems.. Funny enough, when I am out and listen to music with my Sony WH-1000X3 (which by no means can be called an audiohile headphone) - I may really like couple of random songs, then come home, listen to same songs through my system... and yes - I can hear A LOT more details, it sounds great, nice and clean... but somehow it does not drive any emotions.


----------



## StarTreker

DmitriyV said:


> thanks for the detailed advice man! I've been staying in the Philiippines for some time now. If you are in PH, buying anything from Ebay is a bit of pain - on top of quite expensive shipping, customs clearence is a nightmare (expensive plus unreliable plus might take forever) - only if you are not buying from some local online shops like Lazada which appear to have managed to arrange smooth delivery process. So I have little choice but to experiment with software EQ for now



Sadly, its a mess all over due to the Covid-19 deal. Even in my country where things are normally going full tilt, much has been disrupted. Then it don't help the hurricanes coming on through wrecking havoc on the nation as well. But, all we can do is try and get through this the best we can. And one of the ways we do this, is by listening to delicious audio. HEHE


----------



## ruinedx

DmitriyV said:


> Well, I guess ideal case would be if I could try particular headphone / DAC / AMP combo before buying, and I am sure I would come up with completely different set of hardware if I had a chance to, but this is not an option for me as there is literally not a single hifi store around me - so I had exactly one chance to pick particular piece. And what people do in such cases - they read / watch reviews to decide what to buy - so did I  Literally every single review I saw on Sundara, DX3 and SP200 were super positive. I cant imagine all of those reviews to be paid (along with many positive feedback on this very forum), so it must be not so bad I guess.
> 
> Just that it doesnt fit much my expectations for enjoyable sound.. musicality, not sure how to describe this. I mean it sounds super clean and detailed, no distortion whatsoever audible to my poorly trained ears.. but somehow It does not drive this euphoria from listening to an amazing song that I used to enjoy so much on way  cheeper systems.. Funny enough, when I am out and listen to music with my Sony WH-1000X3 (which by no means can be called an audiohile headphone) - I may really like couple of random songs, then come home, listen to same songs through my system... and yes - I can hear A LOT more details, it sounds great, nice and clean... but somehow it does not drive any emotions.


Again Liquid Platinum amp even with stock tubes would likely fix your problem.


----------



## Seamaster

DmitriyV said:


> Well, I guess ideal case would be if I could try particular headphone / DAC / AMP combo before buying, and I am sure I would come up with completely different set of hardware if I had a chance to, but this is not an option for me as there is literally not a single hifi store around me - so I had exactly one chance to pick particular piece. And what people do in such cases - they read / watch reviews to decide what to buy - so did I  Literally every single review I saw on Sundara, DX3 and SP200 were super positive. I cant imagine all of those reviews to be paid (along with many positive feedback on this very forum), so it must be not so bad I guess.
> 
> Just that it doesnt fit much my expectations for enjoyable sound.. musicality, not sure how to describe this. I mean it sounds super clean and detailed, no distortion whatsoever audible to my poorly trained ears.. but somehow It does not drive this euphoria from listening to an amazing song that I used to enjoy so much on way  cheeper systems.. Funny enough, when I am out and listen to music with my Sony WH-1000X3 (which by no means can be called an audiohile headphone) - I may really like couple of random songs, then come home, listen to same songs through my system... and yes - I can hear A LOT more details, it sounds great, nice and clean... but somehow it does not drive any emotions.



I'd agree, I have had some SS headphone amps range from $150 to $800, they are raved on forums and reviews, the most famous ones I had were IFI audio products. Yes, they all sound technically good, clean, linear, fast, great bass......the list is long BUT they all have one problem in common is lack musicality and timbre.


----------



## ruinedx (Sep 10, 2020)

Seamaster said:


> I'd agree, I have had some SS headphone amps range from $150 to $800, they are raved on forums and reviews, the most famous ones I had were IFI audio products. Yes, they all sound technically good, clean, linear, fast, great bass......the list is long BUT they all have one problem in common is lack musicality and timbre.


It's easy to make something that measures well and sounds bad.

Its hard to make something that sounds good.

Something can measure good and sound bad, or measure bad and sound good. This is because the typical measurements are too primitive.

This is a hard lesson many people are learning now :]


----------



## Seamaster

ruinedx said:


> It's easy to make something that measures well and sounds bad.
> 
> Its hard to make something that sounds good.
> 
> ...



Can't agree more, I just ordered a LTA microzotl mz3, I am waiting for my "Ah" moment, LOL


----------



## volly (Sep 10, 2020)

DmitriyV said:


> Well, I guess ideal case would be if I could try particular headphone / DAC / AMP combo before buying, and I am sure I would come up with completely different set of hardware if I had a chance to, but this is not an option for me as there is literally not a single hifi store around me - so I had exactly one chance to pick particular piece. And what people do in such cases - they read / watch reviews to decide what to buy - so did I  Literally every single review I saw on Sundara, DX3 and SP200 were super positive. I cant imagine all of those reviews to be paid (along with many positive feedback on this very forum), so it must be not so bad I guess.
> 
> Just that it doesnt fit much my expectations for enjoyable sound.. musicality, not sure how to describe this. I mean it sounds super clean and detailed, no distortion whatsoever audible to my poorly trained ears.. but somehow It does not drive this euphoria from listening to an amazing song that I used to enjoy so much on way  cheeper systems.. Funny enough, when I am out and listen to music with my Sony WH-1000X3 (which by no means can be called an audiohile headphone) - I may really like couple of random songs, then come home, listen to same songs through my system... and yes - I can hear A LOT more details, it sounds great, nice and clean... but somehow it does not drive any emotions.


The law of diminishing returns here my friend, the Sony's would be a total contrast to the Sundara's! Honestly, most my journey in this crazy hobby has been trial and error as geographically, I too, am stuck! We don't get much 'Meets' or 'Headfi conventions' out this way! I just do as much research as I can on my next piece of gear!

If the Sundara's aren't doing it for you (for now) that is totally normal! Such a headphone once did that to me, the HD600's were my first 'Major' step in to Audiophilia and it was jarring. They took a real long time for me to really appreciate them, even buying other headphones through inexperience listening. I've come back to love them like a first wife!

Are you able to get the Sony MDR-Z7m2 a try? They might be a better fit for you, considering your daily's are the 1000x3?! You just might love the Sony house sound brother!


----------



## volly

Seamaster said:


> Can't agree more, I just ordered a LTA microzotl mz3, I am waiting for my "Ah" moment, LOL


Ahhhhhh schitzzzz....things just got real up in here!


----------



## MCCare

Anyone tried running the SMSL SP200 with the Topping E30 dac?


----------



## DmitriyV

ruinedx said:


> Again Liquid Platinum amp even with stock tubes would likely fix your problem.



this one unfortuntaly is out of my reach right now  any other alternative you'd suggest to try?


----------



## ruinedx (Sep 12, 2020)

DmitriyV said:


> this one unfortuntaly is out of my reach right now  any other alternative you'd suggest to try?



Project Sunrise III $255 built
http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_002.htm

For $45 extra can upgrade stock tube to Genalex Gold Lion 12AU7 for better sound


----------



## DmitriyV

volly said:


> The law of diminishing returns here my friend, the Sony's would be a total contrast to the Sundara's! Honestly, most my journey in this crazy hobby has been trial and error as geographically, I too, am stuck! We don't get much 'Meets' or 'Headfi conventions' out this way! I just do as much research as I can on my next piece of gear!
> 
> If the Sundara's aren't doing it for you (for now) that is totally normal! Such a headphone once did that to me, the HD600's were my first 'Major' step in to Audiophilia and it was jarring. They took a real long time for me to really appreciate them, even buying other headphones through inexperience listening. I've come back to love them like a first wife!
> 
> Are you able to get the Sony MDR-Z7m2 a try? They might be a better fit for you, considering your daily's are the 1000x3?! You just might love the Sony house sound brother!



I guess I am going to stick to my system for now, listen to it more, give it a bit more burn in time and see if I can start really enjoying it


----------



## ruinedx

DmitriyV said:


> I guess I am going to stick to my system for now, listen to it more, give it a bit more burn in time and see if I can start really enjoying it


If project sunrise still too much at $255, at $120 you can get liquid spark: https://www.amazon.com/Monolith-Liquid-Spark-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B07JW7NSXT


----------



## DmitriyV

ruinedx said:


> If project sunrise still too much at $255, at $120 you can get liquid spark: https://www.amazon.com/Monolith-Liquid-Spark-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B07JW7NSXT



It is not so much about the price but rather availability. I'm in the Philippines right now and shipping from US is quite problematic. From alternatives It seems I could only try Chord Mojo - there is some local online shop selling those


----------



## Wladimir

I'm thinking of selling my SMSL stack M200+SP200 for 320 €, shipping to EU preferably.
M200 has complete package and still in warranty, SP200 just device and power cord. Both as good as new, anyone interested? PM me.


Spoiler: Photo











P.S. Sorry for posting here, but I cannot make a separate thread about selling yet and don't wanna spam other forums as well..


----------



## jipan (Sep 26, 2020)

MCCare said:


> Would you guys recommend the SP200 with the topping E30?


I actually use this set up. Both have similar neutral sound, while SP200 is on analytical side, E30 is a touch on musical side so everything is bit balanced.
The treble is smooth, yet have good details. The vocal is sweet, but a step behind musics, some times I increase the volume just to have bit more of that sweet vocals. The bass is deep, agile and neutral. Everything is smooth and neutral, nothing glaring or peaky.
The overall sound is clean, neutral slightly on cold side.

_Late add on: this set up is quite rough with badly recorded songs (for this price range), so be careful. I powered my E30 using leftover phone charger. It's clean enough source for it._


----------



## The Third (Sep 27, 2020)

MCCare said:


> Anyone tried running the SMSL SP200 with the Topping E30 dac?


I just ordered this combo and will test it with the E-MU Teak (and rosewood, bamboo, zebra, mahogany), TH-X00 Purpleheart, Hifiman HE-500 and the HD25 Aluminium. For a future roadmap I am considering getting the modi multibit or modius alongside a Xduoo TA-20 or Bottlehead crack. I heard the e30 and smsl sp200 are a bit on the clinical side but I got many headphones who colour the sound enough by themself already so I will post my impressions here.


----------



## Kike6685

Hi 
I need your advice guys 
I am thinking to buy smslm500 sp200 combo or sp200 alone
I read smsl sp200 reviews of headfiers and I would like to ask you some questions
I currently have an ibasso dx220 with fidelizer modified amp8 and amp9 modules. With amp8 I move very well my ca cascade, ca solaris and my hifiman ananda I consider that even 80 or 90% of what they can give.
I would like to have an desktop amp to get the most out of my headphones and to be able to buy more impedance headphones in the future like hd800s audezes.
I had thought about the smsl500 + sp200 combo, but I think I could connect the ibasso either through spdif-2rca or through the 4.4mm output to 2xlr.
I ckecked smslm500 2 months ago and it sounded somewhat more powerful than the ibasso but for a little and warmer so I do not think it is an improvement.
I could use your advice.
Sorry for my english  
Greetings


----------



## StarTreker

Welcome to the audiophile club, where once you start down the rabbit hole, it never stops lol.   

I myself am using the S.M.S.L SP200 and S.M.S.L M200 combo, each are dedicated AMPS and DACS, that together, bring some delicious auditorial bliss to your ears. Most people will tell you that the SP200 and M200 is plenty enough, you don't need anything more expensive. Now the only time buying something more expensive would make sense, is if you needed features not found on the lower models. I am going to display pictures to show you what each unit has, both front and back, and let you make the decision.

But its in my humble opinion, that the SP200 and M200 are an amazing combination that really sounds good. But since sound is always subjective, I shall let you be the judge. Just know, that I give the combo my complete 100% 5-STAR recommendation!

S.M.S.L SP200 AMP!                             FRONT VIEW





S.M.S.L SP200 AMP!                             REAR VIEW




S.M.S.L SP200 AMP!                      Modified Volume Knob




S.M.S.L M200 DAC                              Front View




S.M.S.L M200 DAC                              REAR View


----------



## Diable

I have to agree with you. I can't think of reason to buy something more expensive with the SP200 on the market.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Hi forum. I just want to ask, if somebody tried to mod this amp or improve anything internally.

Thank you!


----------



## Roderick

Has anyone changed the potentiometer on sp200? The actual not just the plastic knob. Mine is in need of cleaning/replacement. It looks like the pot propably can't be opened so thorough cleaning might be impossible.

I'm quite disappointed it took only a year for my unit to get this issue of cracling when volume is being adjusted. I've had amps over a decade old that worked flawlessly.


----------



## StarTreker

Get yourself a can of DeOxit, it's a cleaner and lubricant all in one. Make sure to have the power off before you do this. The POT should have a tiny hole on the back side of it, inside the unit. If you see a hole, put the straw up against it and shoot for 1/2 second. Start rotating the POT knob back and forth many times. Then shoot another 1/2 second into the hole, and repeat rotating the knob a bunch of times.


----------



## WorksUnit

Recieved one of these today and really enjoying it so far.
Using Mojo in lineout and Hd650s this might just replace my Spartan Audio Helot as the amp of choice for these.
Just a nicer balance, more forward, very musical.
But then again, to tube roll.....

Kudos @StarTreker on the knob replacement tip too, stock is a bit cheap feeling


----------



## StarTreker

Good deal! Hope you continue to enjoy it. Please take pics when you get a chance. If you replace your volume knob, definitely take pics and share. Cool 😎


----------



## Telin

After reading and watching many reviews I also pulled the trigger on a M200 / SP200 stack. 
Can't wait for it to arrive!

At first I was going for a Schiit Modius / Asgard 3 stack but since Schiit had practically no stock in Europe with no restocking date in sight I looked for something else. 
Could've ordered from Schiit USA but I don't feel the (lot) of extra money in import taxes and customs fees is worth it when one can buy SMSL "locally". 

@StarTreker 
Where did you get the volume knob from, what specs is it? Seems like an interesting mod


----------



## JoeSlovakia (Jan 10, 2021)

I've ordered this knob as replacement https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dia-Black-...-/392619963677?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


----------



## Telin

Thanks for the suggestion. 
I will keep it in mind, but first I want to check out the factory default one before buying something else.


----------



## StarTreker

Telin said:


> After reading and watching many reviews I also pulled the trigger on a M200 / SP200 stack.
> Can't wait for it to arrive!
> 
> At first I was going for a Schiit Modius / Asgard 3 stack but since Schiit had practically no stock in Europe with no restocking date in sight I looked for something else.
> ...



The factory default knob is made out of plastic, as such, it not only feels cheap, but it operates like it too in the POT movement. This is actually the popular modification that others, including myself, make to this AMP. Its a nice upgrade, makes the AMP look better, and it smooths out the POT movement a bit, gives it a higher end feel and all that. 

Volume Knob Replacement Post

Important Info On Install Of New Knob

Links To Replacement Knobs...

Yes it does come in black, here is the black version...
Black Volume Knob

This is the silver knob if someone wants that...
Silver Volume Knob

This is a blue knob version...
Blue Volume Knob

And for those who like it red as can be...
Red Volume Knob

And this is of course the gold volume knob that I have...
Gold Volume Knob


----------



## Telin

StarTreker said:


> The factory default knob is made out of plastic, as such, it not only feels cheap, but it operates like it too in the POT movement. This is actually the popular modification that others, including myself, make to this AMP. Its a nice upgrade, makes the AMP look better, and it smooths out the POT movement a bit, gives it a higher end feel and all that.
> 
> Volume Knob Replacement Post
> 
> ...


Ok ok you convinced me 
I wanted to try something different and ordered a blue knob... and a black knob backup in case I don't like the blue one  Hard to go wrong for 2.68 dollar each and 1.70 dollar shipping.
Now only have to wait until I get it in the mail which can take up to 2 months..


----------



## StarTreker

Its in my humble opinion that you've made the right choice! The seller there is top notch, and sells quality gear, and has excellent communication. I was so happy with my large knob, umm hmm, I just had to tell everybody about it. 

It will be interesting to see which knob that you prefer on there, the blue one, or the black one. You will most certainly have to take pictures! HEHE


----------



## Telin

StarTreker said:


> It will be interesting to see which knob that you prefer on there, the blue one, or the black one. You will most certainly have to take pictures! HEHE


Will do!
Now I'm impatient for my new equipment to arrive


----------



## volly

Telin said:


> Will do!
> Now I'm impatient for my new equipment to arrive


What headphones will you be using with the SMSL stack @Telin?


----------



## Telin

volly said:


> What headphones will you be using with the SMSL stack @Telin?


Fostex T50RP MKIII with some modifications.
Don't have any immediate plans of changing headphones especially now I have blown my budget on a M200/SP200 stack.
The better DAC and more power should do the Fostex some good.


----------



## volly

Telin said:


> Fostex T50RP MKIII with some modifications.
> Don't have any immediate plans of changing headphones especially now I have blown my budget on a M200/SP200 stack.
> The better DAC and more power should do the Fostex some good.


The T50's love juice, the Sp200 should do the trick! 

Let us know how you go with it!


----------



## StarTreker

Telin said:


> Fostex T50RP MKIII with some modifications.
> Don't have any immediate plans of changing headphones especially now I have blown my budget on a M200/SP200 stack.
> The better DAC and more power should do the Fostex some good.



Thats exactly right! It don't matter what headphones you have, if your source and amp are schitt, it will make everything sound like schitt. Your Fostex T50RP MKIII are a 50-OHM can, this means they need ample power to produce good sound. Your can's can also take 3 watts of power, so that gives you excellent flexibility for both amping and EQ. Make sure to turn your GAIN switch on the SP200 to HIGH, and run the M200 DAC volume at MAX 0DB. Then set your AMMP volume levels from there to your liking. 

Also, if your using one of those really cheap super thin AUX cables that you can buy on Amazon, then sometime down the road, save up for quality 22-gauge cable, I have a Canare Star Quad cable and its made in Japan, it allows you to get more of the power from the AMP to the cans, which allows for deeper bass reproduction, and increased dynamics. 





And I am using 22-gauge Monoprice RCA cables for the rest of the chain incase your wondering.




I think you are doing great BTW, getting your source and your AMP situation, its going to make a world of difference to your sound. Can't wait to hear your review on your new setup, once you've got it going and have a chance to test it out. Happy for you!


----------



## Telin

StarTreker said:


> Thats exactly right! It don't matter what headphones you have, if your source and amp are schitt, it will make everything sound like schitt. Your Fostex T50RP MKIII are a 50-OHM can, this means they need ample power to produce good sound. Your can's can also take 3 watts of power, so that gives you excellent flexibility for both amping and EQ. Make sure to turn your GAIN switch on the SP200 to HIGH, and run the M200 DAC volume at MAX 0DB. Then set your AMMP volume levels from there to your liking.
> 
> Also, if your using one of those really cheap super thin AUX cables that you can buy on Amazon, then sometime down the road, save up for quality 22-gauge cable, I have a Canare Star Quad cable and its made in Japan, it allows you to get more of the power from the AMP to the cans, which allows for deeper bass reproduction, and increased dynamics.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the additional information, greatly appreciated.
Currently I'm using the V-Moda audio cable with the Fostex as the stock cable that comes with it is totally schiit.

I will look into headphone cables but straight connector like yours on the picture is not optimal as then the connector/cable will stick out form the headphones in a weird angle.
Also have to be careful that the connector is not too thick else it wont fit in the completely due they schiit lock mechanism Fostex used.
Ideal would be a 90 degree angled longer then standard plug, have not found any though other then the V-Moda which is more 45 degrees.


----------



## StarTreker

Your Welcome!

LOL Yep, I know exactly what you mean. V-Moda headphones use recessed jacks, so I had to take my connector to the grinder, just so I could make the barftard fit LOL!


----------



## Telin

StarTreker said:


> Your Welcome!
> 
> LOL Yep, I know exactly what you mean. V-Moda headphones use recessed jacks, so I had to take my connector to the grinder, just so I could make the barftard fit LOL!


Looks totally professional! 
I bet you could sell that grinded connector for top dollar, just say that it helps to create a wider audio stage


----------



## volly

Fostex really need to release a revised (Mk4) version just like the T60rp with the connector in the down position, I've never liked the 90 degree twist lock thingy, was totally schiit-show hahaha...ahhhh the Fostex takes me back to the days of headphone Modding scene...what a great time and fairly cheap to get in to!

With your new stack, you're gonna largely hear the headphones in this case and not your gear (which most of us are trying to achieve!). Have you modded your Fostex yet? Pad rolled or internal dampening yet?


----------



## volly

@StarTreker - Have you heard about the SH-9 model? Just a tad cleaner on paper but more expensive? I'm totally happy with both my SP200's but I may have a look at the newer SH-9 down the track! It literally seems to be the SP200 in a newer chassis with a silly display and a different potentiometer I think.


----------



## StarTreker

volly said:


> @StarTreker - Have you heard about the SH-9 model? Just a tad cleaner on paper but more expensive? I'm totally happy with both my SP200's but I may have a look at the newer SH-9 down the track! It literally seems to be the SP200 in a newer chassis with a silly display and a different potentiometer I think.



Yes I have actually, if I recall, Zeo's did a video on it, and thats where I heard about. But like you said, its not really a real successor AMP, its pretty much all the same, just in a new box, and a different display. IMO, not worth buying unless it would be a real upgrade. And frankly, once you got a SP200, its really all you need. Very few headphones on the market require more power then the SP200 is capable of, and if your one of the few who do, might as well get a Rebel AMP lol.


----------



## volly

StarTreker said:


> Yes I have actually, if I recall, Zeo's did a video on it, and thats where I heard about. But like you said, its not really a real successor AMP, its pretty much all the same, just in a new box, and a different display. IMO, not worth buying unless it would be a real upgrade. And frankly, once you got a SP200, its really all you need. Very few headphones on the market require more power then the SP200 is capable of, and if your one of the few who do, might as well get a Rebel AMP lol.


haha...oh nice...do you notice much difference in performance with it? I'd imagine it would still have the THX sound? I wouldn't think they upgraded much inside, perhaps a bigger power supply? Sandu over at Soundnews and a few others thinks it's an improvement over the SP200 but I'm respectfully taking it with a pinch of Himalayan salt.

Would love to hear a comparo @StarTreker!


----------



## StarTreker

Only way I'm going to do a comparison is if SMSL sent me a free one for review. Cause I'm not spending another 300 for something I don't need.


----------



## Telin

StarTreker said:


> Yes I have actually, if I recall, Zeo's did a video on it, and thats where I heard about. But like you said, its not really a real successor AMP, its pretty much all the same, just in a new box, and a different display. IMO, not worth buying unless it would be a real upgrade. And frankly, once you got a SP200, its really all you need. Very few headphones on the market require more power then the SP200 is capable of, and if your one of the few who do, might as well get a Rebel AMP lol.


SH-9 measures a tad better then the SP200, highly doubt you actually going to hear that though.  
Only improvement of the SH-9 is probably the volume control which is from what I've read not the strongest point of the SP200. 

Price wise they are really close together. But...
If you buy the SH-9 you most likely want to stack it with the matching DAC SU-9 which is quite a bit more expensive then the M200. Again. I'm not nearly convinced that you actually going to hear that over the M200. 

So in the end you mostly pay the premium for a "nicer" box and perhaps a better volume control on the SH-9


----------



## Telin

volly said:


> With your new stack, you're gonna largely hear the headphones in this case and not your gear (which most of us are trying to achieve!). Have you modded your Fostex yet? Pad rolled or internal dampening yet?


Modded with new baffle covers, newplast clay, some dampening foam and rolled cotton.
In the end the sound signature improved to my personal liking, a tad better and more stable low output. Of course this is al very personal and with some other modifications you could make that it get some more highs just as easily. And i threw on some Shure 1540 earcups as the factory ones are so uncomfortable it feels like clamping two stone bricks on your head.  

In the end I think the mods make the headphones sound significantly better (and significantly more comfortable).
Although I do feel that the mods make the headphones another tad less efficient then they already were.. that's where the extra power of the SP200 comes in


----------



## volly

Telin said:


> Modded with new baffle covers, newplast clay, some dampening foam and rolled cotton.
> In the end the sound signature improved to my personal liking, a tad better and more stable low output. Of course this is al very personal and with some other modifications you could make that it get some more highs just as easily. And i threw on some Shure 1540 earcups as the factory ones are so uncomfortable it feels like clamping two stone bricks on your head.
> 
> In the end I think the mods make the headphones sound significantly better (and significantly more comfortable).
> Although I do feel that the mods make the headphones another tad less efficient then they already were.. that's where the extra power of the SP200 comes in


Mate....brings back memories....I bought my T50's many years ago at a discount music store....started with the 1540 pads, made a "huge" difference, especially in comfort! Then found some cotton balls around the house...then went to the art store and bought some clay...totally agree on the end result! With the Sp200, I think you'll find out if you need to tune the high's or not! Did you cover the bass ports or kept them stock?

Loved those days of the Fostx Modding scene...was great fun!


----------



## Telin (Jan 12, 2021)

volly said:


> Did you cover the bass ports or kept them stock?


The Shure 1540 pads are known to lessen the bass output a bit.
I "compensated" this by venting the bass ports a bit more to allow for more bass reproduction.

I like my end result, ever so slightly more emphasis on the lows to give those drums in the mostly metal music i listen to a tad extra "punch" nothing too much i mind you, I'm talking nuances here. I hate those bass heavy headphones like Beats with a passion. Incredible that people are willing to pay that much for Beats while they sound totally out of balance.

Modding is so personal, there are already 1001 ways to adjust the vents to increase/decrease the bass reproduction alone..


----------



## Telin

I received my track&trace code from HiFi-express for my order of the M200 / SP200 stack 
When I track my shipment it says that the sender is Amazon.. 
Ooh well at least I got a good price for them, better then the Amazon listed prices.


----------



## volly

Telin said:


> I received my track&trace code from HiFi-express for my order of the M200 / SP200 stack
> When I track my shipment it says that the sender is Amazon..
> Ooh well at least I got a good price for them, better then the Amazon listed prices.


Good luck mate!


----------



## StarTreker

*Nothing gives you a nice hard bass punch, then a good SP200 at your side.  *


----------



## 340519

I'm using the sp200 and m200 with my abyss 1266 phi tcs right now and it sounds incredible. The smsl stuff is fantastic!


----------



## RuPoV

dmdm said:


> I'm using the sp200 and m200 with my abyss 1266 phi tcs right now and it sounds incredible. The smsl stuff is fantastic!


 Im using sp200 and m200 with Auddeze XCs and it sounds great!


----------



## 340519

RuPoV said:


> Im using sp200 and m200 with Auddeze XCs and it sounds great!


It's a great combo.  I used to have the X and XCs and I liked them a lot.


----------



## RuPoV

dmdm said:


> It's a great combo.  I used to have the X and XCs and I liked them a lot.


Why did you get rid of XCs, just curious.


----------



## 340519

RuPoV said:


> Why did you get rid of XCs, just curious.


To be able to afford the cans in my sig!


----------



## RuPoV

dmdm said:


> To be able to afford the cans in my sig!


Ohh I see, thanks for the answer.


----------



## StarTreker

When your living in a pandemic, sometimes you have to make sacrifices to afford the stuff you want. Sometimes that means selling gear to afford other gear, its what it is. At the end of the day, if the gear you own makes you happy, thats what matters.


----------



## Telin (Jan 15, 2021)

First impression is that the AMP produces a nice clean neutral sound. I like that is is neutral, a DAC or AMP shouldn't color the sound IMHO. Type of headphone decides what kind of sound you get.
Good thing I stacked the AMP on top as it seems to output some heat


----------



## 340519

Telin said:


> First impression is that the AMP produces a nice clean neutral sound. I like that is is neutral, a DAC or AMP shouldn't color the sound IMHO. Type of headphone decides what kind of sound you get.
> Good thing I stacked the AMP on top as it seems to output some heat


Yeah this amp is as good as any I've ever heard. I'm happy with it, and it powers the abyss 1266 perfectly.


----------



## Arniesb

dmdm said:


> Yeah this amp is as good as any I've ever heard. I'm happy with it, and it powers the abyss 1266 perfectly.


shhhhh!!! Someone will come here and say that it dont cost 5k dont have ton of distortion and noise and because of that it can't sound good


----------



## Telin

Arniesb said:


> shhhhh!!! Someone will come here and say that it dont cost 5k dont have ton of distortion and noise and because of that it can't sound good


Nah, they will be just like amplifier X measures 0.001% better so this one sounds absolutely like garbage.

Sad that some people seem to value measurements more then how it actually sounds playing music.


----------



## 340519

They are all wrong. The amp sounds fantastic.


----------



## MalinYamato (Jan 15, 2021)

there are so many posts in this thread.... sp200 is what it is, a simple AAA amp, and not much needs to be said about it other than trying to replace the enclosure with one that does not disturb you mentally you having to look at its weird shape all day long. The good news is, your suffering will soon be history as I am starting a business to replace the chassis of sp200. Send it to me for a 100 dollares mod and Ill fix it.


----------



## 340519

I love the shape.


----------



## MalinYamato (Jan 15, 2021)

Telin said:


> I received my track&trace code from HiFi-express for my order of the M200 / SP200 stack
> When I track my shipment it says that the sender is Amazon..
> Ooh well at least I got a good price for them, better then the Amazon listed prices.


Hifi Express rents Amazon warehouses, one seems to be located in Demark. I have stopped ordering from all Amazon-affiliates because I have joined the boycott against Amazon. If you order from Amazon you plunder and oppress the working class.


----------



## volly

How's the T50's with the M200/SP200 @Telin? You like?


----------



## Telin

volly said:


> How's the T50's with the M200/SP200 @Telin? You like?


I have not access to my Fostex right now as they're at my colleage's house. 
I will let you know once I get some time one with them.


----------



## Telin (Jan 15, 2021)

MalinYamato said:


> there are so many posts in this thread.... sp200 is what it is, a simple AAA amp, and not much needs to be said about it other than trying to replace the enclosure with one that does not disturb you mentally you having to look at its weird shape all day long. The good news is, your suffering will soon be history as I am starting a business to replace the chassis of sp200. Send it to me for a 100 dollares mod and Ill fix it.


Bad business idea IMHO.
SMSL does it for 20 dollar, it's called the SH-9

Shape doesn't bother me as much as it's stacked under my monitor riser anyway.


----------



## StarTreker

Yes, and promoting a mod service in the regular forums is tacky, so as is your political views on a company. We might agree, we might disagree, but this is not the place for it. Promote your mod service in the proper thread topics, which should be I think in the for sale section.

While I agree that the box is weirdly shaped, I am sure there is a reason why S.M.S.L chose to do this. Because they are a Chinese brand, they generally don't speak English, and as such, have not made any comments about it that I am aware of. Still, if they could hire a translator, I am really curious to know why they chose to do that with the 200-series stack.

For me personally, the box being oddly shaped, or not the highest end in design, does not concern me. Anybody who buys an AMP or DAC simply for its design features, are not buying them for the right reasons, and should go back to Harmon Kardon, where all they care about is odd designs, and produce gear with crappy sound, to fool rich people into thinking, that they are the schiitt.

When you buy an AMP or DAC, your first goal, is to buy them for their tech ability, hence the features inside brought to you by the chips. Then your second goal, is to chose weather or not you can swing it for the price, is it too expensive, just right, or too cheap. At the end of the day, you always get what you pay for. 

You can buy the prettiest piece of garbage the land has ever seen, but like Beats By Doctor Drey, they sound like schiitt, and will always sound like schiitt. While I am the first to admit, the M200 DAC front piece looks quite good with its shine in the display, that is not the reason I bought the DAC, I bought it for the quality chips inside.


----------



## Telin

StarTreker said:


> While I agree that the box is weirdly shaped, I am sure there is a reason why S.M.S.L chose to do this. Because they are a Chinese brand, they generally don't speak English, and as such, have not made any comments about it that I am aware of. Still, if they could hire a translator, I am really curious to know why they chose to do that with the 200-series stack.


We're going totally off topic here but my guess is simple. 
SMSL is a Chinese company based in China run by Chinese people. There is a cultural difference with the west in how they see and do things. I'm pretty sure that the odd shaped box as we call it in the west is considered nothing odd in their home country China. Look around to see what kind of products they sell in Asia. 
SMSL like any other company wants to sell as many products as they can. So they can't ignore their own country and Asia for that matter and that being their home base the design speaks to that culture.


----------



## Telin

StarTreker said:


> You can buy the prettiest piece of garbage the land has ever seen, but like Beats By Doctor Drey, they sound like schiitt, and will always sound like schiitt. While I am the first to admit, the M200 DAC front piece looks quite good with its shine in the display, that is not the reason I bought the DAC, I bought it for the quality chips inside.


Quoted for truth

I couldn't justify myself paying the premium extra in fees and taxes to buy Schiit from America while I can buy a DAC with better chips inside from SMSL for less. 
Sure the boxes Schiit puts their chips in look better (for western standards) but you don't hear the boxes, you hear the chips they use and SMSL uses good chips.


----------



## UntilThen

Arniesb said:


> shhhhh!!! Someone will come here and say that it dont cost 5k dont have ton of distortion and noise and because of that it can't sound good



Haha... I agree that this amp makes my LCD-3f sound good. Dac is from my Questyle CMA Twelve. I have many amps here that I like with my LCD-3f but this amp does surprise me. Not saying it's better than my other amps but it's holding it's own with it's sound signature. Excellent tone.


----------



## StarTreker

UntilThen said:


> Haha... I agree that this amp makes my LCD-3f sound good. Dac is from my Questyle CMA Twelve. I have many amps here that I like with my LCD-3f but this amp does surprise me. Not saying it's better than my other amps but it's holding it's own with it's sound signature. Excellent tone.



Beautiful setup! Love the look of the cans sitting on that box. I'm assuming the reason you have the AMP in low gain, is because your using high power XLR? I'm using RCA for everything so I got to run in high gain for my 32 OHM cans.

Oh, another thing I been doing is using my same gear to power a bluetooth speaker in wired mode, works good for that too. I'm sick with flu and headphones are no bueno! My head already feels like it's in a vice, don't need to make it reality.


----------



## UntilThen

StarTreker said:


> Beautiful setup! Love the look of the cans sitting on that box. I'm assuming the reason you have the AMP in low gain, is because your using high power XLR? I'm using RCA for everything so I got to run in high gain for my 32 OHM cans.
> 
> Oh, another thing I been doing is using my same gear to power a bluetooth speaker in wired mode, works good for that too. I'm sick with flu and headphones are no bueno! My head already feels like it's in a vice, don't need to make it reality.



Thank you. I set it to low gain because my planar magnetics headphones are low impedance. LCD-3f - 110 ohms ; LCD-X - 20 ohms ; He1000se - 35 ohms. High gain will be very loud. 

xlr balance or 1/4 inch connection on SP200 has the same loudness which leads me to believe it is not a true balance amp but is not a concern because the amp sounds good with either connection. I have tested it with my LCD-X. Here in the picture I have 1/4 inch adapter. It's the same loudness with xlr balance connector. 

What surprise me is that it's as enjoyable as my other more expensive amps - Woo Audio Wa22, Questyle CMA Twelve, Schiit Mjolnir 2 and Violectric v280. With my headphones He1000se, LCD-3f, LCD-X and HD800. Most people watching this will think I'm crazy for having this view. I can only say, come here and listen for yourself and be surprise.

Or maybe we don't want the world to know that a $260 amp can hold it's own in the midst of such company.  Make no mistake, the other amps are incredibly good too with those headphones but so is the SP200. In fact on some track I prefer the SP200.  

For your info, I've just heard the most incredible setup this afternoon. That is documented here. You can't compare that though. That setup is the cost of a new medium size car.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/post-16109211


----------



## StarTreker

Your right, the SP200 is not balanced, it doesn't have 2 separate opamps. And the volume POT is not designed for balanced. But for some reason I still thought it be louder on XLR, because XLR usually means a higher power line level going into the input stage of the AMP. Another beautiful picture, I like!


----------



## RuPoV

Dont see anything wrong with the shape.


----------



## StarTreker

I think Asus approves your stack as well, keeps it's foot warm. 😀 Looks like you got no signal running to the DAC, which makes it feel a bit sad lol. And looks like you got your switches set on the AMP same as mine, go team RCA on high gain woohoo 😂 Great picture dude!


----------



## UntilThen

I would get a cheap stand for the monitor like this. The dac and amp are not meant to be monitor stands even if they are cheap.


----------



## RuPoV

UntilThen said:


> I would get a cheap stand for the monitor like this. The dac and amp are not meant to be monitor stands even if they are cheap.


Im planning to get a bigger table, wont need a stand


----------



## RuPoV

StarTreker said:


> I think Asus approves your stack as well, keeps it's foot warm. 😀 Looks like you got no signal running to the DAC, which makes it feel a bit sad lol. And looks like you got your switches set on the AMP same as mine, go team RCA on high gain woohoo 😂 Great picture dude!


I didnt listen to music at the time, thus no signal. I actually got XLR cable connections at the back, because cables are much shorter. Tried RCA before, did not hear any difference though.


----------



## StarTreker

UntilThen said:


> I would get a cheap stand for the monitor like this. The dac and amp are not meant to be monitor stands even if they are cheap.



I like that double stack stand deal. Not only does it look good, seems to function great! What's it called specifically so I can look it up?


----------



## UntilThen

StarTreker said:


> I like that double stack stand deal. Not only does it look good, seems to function great! What's it called specifically so I can look it up?



Like this?  I don't know what it is called now. I will have to ask whoever gave it to me.  

So pleased with the result now. Table is big L shaped. PC and monitor is on the right. Now I need a gadget such as this - https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3-IN-3-...dio-Selector-Box-Passive-Preamp-/253623971535


----------



## chikyblink

Hi guys, so I heard about how quiet THX technology is and recently bought the Sp200. I have them connected via both XLR and RCA, to my SU-8 dac. On the RCAs, with nothing playing, low gain, volume knob pass 12 o'clock there is audible noise with both my shp9500 and Elear. On the XLRs, dead quiet all the way.
I've tried with 2 sets of RCAs with the same results. Is this normal? Granted, this isn't a problem coz I will never go past 12 o'clock on the knob with both my headphones, but having a peace of mind would be good.
Just to add on, with my Lcd2 and HD600, they're dead quiet on both RCAs and XLRs. I suppose coz the shp9500 and Elear are both high in sensitivity?


----------



## UntilThen

@chikyblink  I just tested your issue with HiFiMan He1000se 35 ohm 96 dB ; Focal Elear 80 ohms 104 dB

With no music playing, zero noise on low gain for both RCA and XLR, using He1000se. No issue for me. He1000se is very sensitive, easy to drive even with an iPhone.


----------



## chikyblink

UntilThen said:


> @chikyblink  I just tested your issue with HiFiMan He1000se 35 ohm 96 dB ; Focal Elear 80 ohms 104 dB
> 
> With no music playing, zero noise on low gain for both RCA and XLR, using He1000se. No issue for me. He1000se is very sensitive, easy to drive even with an iPhone.


Thank you for taking the time to test. I'll troubleshoot myself to try and find the cause. Will report back if I find anything.


----------



## Denosha

Solved my lack of desk space by using monitor arms, which allows me to stack all the gear below the display. Display seems abit high but it's actually at eye level if/when i sit up straight in my chair.


----------



## volly

Denosha said:


> Solved my lack of desk space by using monitor arms, which allows me to stack all the gear below the display. Display seems abit high but it's actually at eye level if/when i sit up straight in my chair.


Looks like a beaut setup mate! I can relate to most that gear there! Great collection!

How are those speakers treating you?


----------



## Telin

Denosha said:


> Solved my lack of desk space by using monitor arms, which allows me to stack all the gear below the display. Display seems abit high but it's actually at eye level if/when i sit up straight in my chair.


Nice setup, good use of the space. 
BD-R wow I don't even have an optical drive anymore in my last two system builds. Don't see the point for optical when I can re(download) it faster then I can write it to optical. 

How do you feel the SP200 compares to the Schiit?


----------



## Denosha

volly said:


> Looks like a beaut setup mate! I can relate to most that gear there! Great collection!
> 
> How are those speakers treating you?



Thanks! Those old studio monitors are decent in a pinch, for the price/size it offers pretty good clarity and surprisingly decent soundstage even at this distance. Not much in terms of bass extension though, so better suited to acoustic music.



Telin said:


> Nice setup, good use of the space.
> BD-R wow I don't even have an optical drive anymore in my last two system builds. Don't see the point for optical when I can re(download) it faster then I can write it to optical.
> 
> How do you feel the SP200 compares to the Schiit?



Thanks. Yeah, i know what you mean about the BD-R vs downloading (and of course streaming) but perhaps I still find something comforting about having offline backups (though one can argue optical discs also don't last very long).

The Schiit Lyr 2 (with Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8/ECC88 1960s NOS Tubes) to my ears and cans, sound more musical and somewhat more open than the SP200, and better soundstage too. Might be due to the hybrid tube nature and the tons more open. But i must say i really enjoy the SP200 paired with the LCD2 gen1 and especially the HD6XX. The combination has a really pleasing tonality that i don't get with the Lyr 2.


----------



## 340519

The rig sounds pretty good to me...


----------



## HyeVltg3

So I just got the SMSL SP200 in the mail today and have been testing it out.
I am no self-proclaimed Audiophile, but good sounding music just helps relax better after a day of work.

I was initially using LOXJIE P20 as I really like the tube sound but noticed that almost all my hip-hop or bass heavy music feels really flat.
I thought I could solve this by going non-tube by getting the SP200 to match my SMSL M200 DAC, this is my first "High-end" DAC and wow it is a massive upgrade from just PC to Audioengine D1.

Is the "weak link" in the chain my HIFIMAN HE4XX planar headphones ?
using PC USB -> M200 -> to Amp.

Is the SP200 not good with bass or should I aim to upgrade my headphones next.


----------



## 340519

HyeVltg3 said:


> So I just got the SMSL SP200 in the mail today and have been testing it out.
> I am no self-proclaimed Audiophile, but good sounding music just helps relax better after a day of work.
> 
> I was initially using LOXJIE P20 as I really like the tube sound but noticed that almost all my hip-hop or bass heavy music feels really flat.
> ...


Well the sp200 outputs great bass on my abyss cans, so it's definitely not the amp.


----------



## StarTreker

Yeah DMDM, thats what I am talking about! The DAC drops that 96KZ, while the SP200 drops that BASS. Its called, the wickedly awesome auditorial bliss generation system. It does so much lama arse whipping, you'll be jumping at the chance to send them to the slaughter to get some of that sweet sheepskin leather, to strengthen your pads. The S.M.S.L stack is literally the embodiment of modern audio.


----------



## 340519

Wow this amp is just incredible with the Abyss. It's a stunner.


----------



## Telin (Jan 22, 2021)

HyeVltg3 said:


> Is the SP200 not good with bass or should I aim to upgrade my headphones next.



Many consider the SP200 to be more on the analytical side, flat natural sound.
Schiit Asgard 3 for example sounds more "warmer" and bass heavy. But even then that difference is not going to be night and day.

That being said I don't feel that the SP200 / M200 stack lacks any bass.
In getting more then enough bass with my modded Fostex T50RP MKIII. That is without any EQ whatsoever or filters or soundcolor settings or anything like that on the DAC or computer. I did enable EQ once just for the fun of it and I can tell you that the SP200 / M200 stack is capable to output bass to a level that is just completely and utterly overkill and insane. 

Different headphones will make a much bigger difference then swapping one good AMP for another IMHO.


----------



## 340519

Well I'm telling you all that the bass out of my Abyss cans is downright fabulous out of the sp200.


----------



## StarTreker

Telin said:


> I did enable EQ once just for the fun of it and I can tell you that the SP200 / M200 stack is capable to output bass to a level that is just completely and utterly overkill and insane.



YES, overkill and insane, give me more of that, HAHAHAHA!   

Bassheads unite!






But you right, the stack provides all the power that you need. But if you need earth shattering more, crank that bass, and rumble that head!


----------



## Telin (Jan 29, 2021)

Today there was a package in the mailbox... KNOBS!!! 





So I immediately brought out my hammer and all my power tools, let's get this bad boy installed.
I tried if there was a more civil way to remove the old plastic knob but as you can see on the picture below the only way is to simply yank it off with brute force.





Somehow I managed to damage the unit a tiny bit at the 12 o'clock position as you can see in the picture.. g** d*** it! 
Ooh well the show must go on.

@StarTreker recommended to use a feeler gauge, but you know what.. I'm way to cheap for that. I made my own "feeler gauge" from .1mm hard plastic 





Just let the knob rest on it and slide it away once the knob is screwed tight on the pot shaft. And no @StarTreker I didn't went all hulk on it. 

The result after 3 minutes of extreme level engineering and precision fitting:








All knobs in a row:




And finally the SP200 in its final habitat:




The end result is quite fine and the whole process took like 5 minutes or something.
To be completely honest I wouldn't have minded if the knob was one more tint darker blue. Maybe it appeared darker on the picture of the seller due the also blue background.. but the knob is just a little lighter blue.





As i said I'm still fine with it, jst something I wanted to have mentioned to get the complete experience.
If I do get tired of the blue knob I always have the black one as backup which takes like 5 minutes to exchange.

Volume knob and changing the volume definitely has a more premium feeling now.


----------



## Shakmal

Needs an expert advise... I just bought the xduoo mt-602 tube amp with pre amp output and is it possible to use it as a pre amp from my M200 and then connected to Sp200. Needs to be pretty sure about it to avoid any damage to the amp. TQ


----------



## c0dr0e

Do you guys have any hiss with super sensitive IEMs, ie Campfire Audio Solaris or Andromeda?


----------



## limaaa

Hi guys,

Anybody using SP200 or SH-9 with HD6xx?

Thanks!


----------



## tim0chan

c0dr0e said:


> Do you guys have any hiss with super sensitive IEMs, ie Campfire Audio Solaris or Andromeda?


Yes, unfortunately plus the gain is too high


----------



## Denosha

limaaa said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Anybody using SP200 or SH-9 with HD6xx?
> 
> Thanks!



The SP200 is my go-to amp for the HD6xx. To my ears there's some magical synergy with the combo that i don't quite get with my other amps.


----------



## StarTreker

Telin said:


> Today there was a package in the mailbox... KNOBS!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was gone for a few days, I apologize for not responding right away. But imagine my welcome surprise when I did login to Headfi, and I saw some new bling on your SP200. Truth is, I like your ingenuity, instead of a feeler gauge, you managed to make a piece of clear plastic work, thats excellent dude! I love how you designed it to just slip right out after you were done, good job. Ya, I also agree with what you are saying, would have been better if it was a shade darker in blue. But still, it looks good on there. Don't fret over the missing paint too much, I have a trick for that. 

Buy yourself a bunch of permanent markers of different shades of dark colors, from dark grays, to charcoal, to black. One of those colors will be the best match to the rest of the case, and you should be able to make the case look good again. But now you see what I was saying about how much a difference the aluminum knobs make over the plastic ones. Volume feels better, and moves more smoothly as well. Glad you are happy with it. 

And thanks so much for sharing your awesome pictures, like I said, it was a welcome surprise, and I enjoyed your post.


----------



## Shakmal

tim0chan said:


> Yes, unfortunately plus the gain is too high


U can always reduce the default volume at sp200 if u r pair it with M200 dac by tweaking down the volume at M200 (negative value).


----------



## chikyblink (Feb 13, 2021)

The Sp200 gets pretty warm after a while and my cat likes it!


----------



## Telin

chikyblink said:


> The Sp200 gets pretty warm after a while and my cat likes it!


LOL


----------



## StarTreker

chikyblink said:


> The Sp200 gets pretty warm after a while and my cat likes it!



Awww, thats so cute! Ya, the SP200 does get warm. Whats weird is, sometimes its cold, and sometimes its warm, and sometimes its really warm. I think it depends on how hard the amp has to drive, depending on what you have connected to it. It definitely acts like a class A amp lol. I think its adorable that your cat has chosen to rest its head on the SP200, I can't think of a better approval rating. THX certified, and cat approved HEHE.


----------



## Telin

StarTreker said:


> Whats weird is, sometimes its cold, and sometimes its warm, and sometimes its really warm.


I noticed the same thing when I'm listening to music. 
Haven't figured it out why exactly. As far as I'm aware I listen to music at more or less the same volume all the time. Yet sometimes after 2 hours of listening it's barely warm and another time it's noticably warm after an hour of use. 

Everything is well within the thermal limits, no overheating whatsoever. Just wondering what causes the temperature differences with kinda the same usage all the time.


----------



## StarTreker

If there are any electrical engineers in here, I think this would be an excellent time to do some audio science testing, and figure out why the SP200 AMP acts thermally possessed. If you can provide the answer, the mystery will be solved, and you will earn a prize worthy of any mantle piece, my appreciation.


----------



## 340519

It's funny because even with the 1266 tcs the sp200 only gets moderately warm.  My Bryston's get really warm from them.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Hi guys,

has anybody replaced the cheap power cord for some better one? My dad ordered this thicc boy as a Xmas gift, but has arrived last week.


----------



## 340519

JoeSlovakia said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> has anybody replaced the cheap power cord for some better one? My dad ordered this thicc boy as a Xmas gift, but has arrived last week.


It's very pretty! I use Kimber ascents in my system https://www.kimber.com/products/PK10-Ascent.  And kimber silver streaks between the sp200 and m200. https://www.kimber.com/products/silverstreak


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Have you noticed any difference in the sound quality after using a higher quality cable?


----------



## 340519

JoeSlovakia said:


> Have you noticed any difference in the sound quality after using a higher quality cable?


Lol no, they just look nice. I have never in my life heard a difference with cables. I even have some really expensive kimber stuff beyond what I mentioned with my bryston gear, but alas it's just jewelry.  I even bought an expensive silver cable for my empyreans giving it one last shot at this mystical sound change business, but no dice.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Then it's maybe just me and my father hearing some small difference in the sound quality after replacing the cheap cable to a nicer one


----------



## Wladimir

dmdm said:


> I even bought an expensive silver cable for my empyreans giving it one last shot at this mystical sound change business, but no dice.



That's strange, I have complete opposite experience with Empyreans. With stock cable I wasn't enjoying them much, but with TOTL silver cable they're really seductive. Which gear are you using them with?


----------



## Telin

JoeSlovakia said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> has anybody replaced the cheap power cord for some better one? My dad ordered this thicc boy as a Xmas gift, but has arrived last week.


I made my own cable. 
Nothing audiophile though, was just because the stock cable was like 15cm too short to route properly. I used whatever I had in my car what turned out some heavy duty industrial cable.





I'm very sceptical of those "audiophile" cables. Have to also see it in perspective, doesn't make much sense to buy an expensive audiophile cable considering the relatively low price of the SP200. That money would've been much better spend on better DAC or AMP imho.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

The cable from my dad was not expensive, it was around 22€


----------



## StarTreker

I looked up the cost of that cable, you gotta be smoking 420, to spend the 420 on a cable. The whole point of THX certified, is that it means there will be 0 noise floor, thats the whole point of THX, it filters the sound so that its quite. If your homes power is so darn dirty that your hearing noise in everything, then your home needs a power conditioner installed. And to be perfectly honest, if your power is that dirty, you might even have fried components somewhere. Spending 420 on a power cable for the AMP is gonna do nothing but just look good.


----------



## JoeSlovakia (Feb 15, 2021)

StarTreker said:


> I looked up the cost of that cable, you gotta be smoking 420, to spend the 420 on a cable. The whole point of THX certified, is that it means there will be 0 noise floor, thats the whole point of THX, it filters the sound so that its quite. If your homes power is so darn dirty that your hearing noise in everything, then your home needs a power conditioner installed. And to be perfectly honest, if your power is that dirty, you might even have fried components somewhere. Spending 420 on a power cable for the AMP is gonna do nothing but just look good.



Oh you replied to dmdm


----------



## Telin

JoeSlovakia said:


> The cable from my dad was not expensive, it was around 22€


And if you're happy with it you're happy with it. Everyone has it's own thing and of you like to spend that extra on cables, be 23 euro or 2300 euro then that's totally fine with me. I won't think any less of you, just saying it's not my thing.


----------



## StarTreker

Also, incase it wasn't obvious, my statement was in no means an attack against DMDM. I actually think pretty highly of DMDM, and have enjoyed his posts on this site, I think he's awesome! Also as a point of fact, I've loved the juicy pictures he's posted of his audio gear as well. My statement was purely a state of opinion, based on the available facts that I know, about 420 dollar cables, vs 10 - 20 dollar cables. lol - But for me personally, even if I had 420 dollars to spend, I wouldn't drop that kind of money on a cable.

Now I am actually planning to buy a new computer soon, so I will be dropping some good money on one of those, but thats understandable, its a top end computer, so its gonna cost some money for sure. But even still, I won't be dropping 5 to 8 grand on one like some of the people in the tech world lol. I am basically aiming for a 2500 dollar notebook computer, that will be fast enough to allow me to edit 4K and make that a breeze, and also be able to render 4K resolution in high end games, thats all I need.

Now, next time one of you wants to buy a 10,000 dollar toilet, please come see me, cause I think I will need to tighten some loose screws lol.


----------



## mojevajaco

Denosha said:


> The SP200 is my go-to amp for the HD6xx. To my ears there's some magical synergy with the combo that i don't quite get with my other amps.


Do you EQ at all. I can't seem to get any magic out of HD6xx no matter what i tried. (Mids are nice but ...


----------



## mojevajaco

I can only compare the sp200 to fx audio x6 dac/amp and the biggest difference i find is the soundstage. Wide open almost to the point of distraction. Early Mayer albums sound great that way. Lotnof room between the fills he does. But with jazz ensembles it's too much. 
Always thought i want a large soundstage now I'm not so sure.


----------



## 340519 (Feb 15, 2021)

StarTreker said:


> I looked up the cost of that cable, you gotta be smoking 420, to spend the 420 on a cable. The whole point of THX certified, is that it means there will be 0 noise floor, thats the whole point of THX, it filters the sound so that its quite. If your homes power is so darn dirty that your hearing noise in everything, then your home needs a power conditioner installed. And to be perfectly honest, if your power is that dirty, you might even have fried components somewhere. Spending 420 on a power cable for the AMP is gonna do nothing but just look good.


I have power conditioners as well.  Richard Gray products.  A couple of their 600S actually.
I just can't hear differences between cables is all.


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> Also, incase it wasn't obvious, my statement was in no means an attack against DMDM. I actually think pretty highly of DMDM, and have enjoyed his posts on this site, I think he's awesome! Also as a point of fact, I've loved the juicy pictures he's posted of his audio gear as well. My statement was purely a state of opinion, based on the available facts that I know, about 420 dollar cables, vs 10 - 20 dollar cables. lol - But for me personally, even if I had 420 dollars to spend, I wouldn't drop that kind of money on a cable.
> 
> Now I am actually planning to buy a new computer soon, so I will be dropping some good money on one of those, but thats understandable, its a top end computer, so its gonna cost some money for sure. But even still, I won't be dropping 5 to 8 grand on one like some of the people in the tech world lol. I am basically aiming for a 2500 dollar notebook computer, that will be fast enough to allow me to edit 4K and make that a breeze, and also be able to render 4K resolution in high end games, thats all I need.
> 
> Now, next time one of you wants to buy a 10,000 dollar toilet, please come see me, cause I think I will need to tighten some loose screws lol.


Nice!  I recently bought an Aorus Gigabyte 17G with the 2070S in it.  I absolutely love it.


----------



## ra990

This is my backup amp that I just keep around for when the need arises. My balanced outputs from the TT2 developed an issue yesterday so I pulled this thing out to run my Susvara and, truth be told, it sounds great with them on high gain - no noise, clean sounding, no indication of running out of juice even at loud volumes. I'm using it as a power amp with the volume turned all the way up on high gain and using my TT2's single ended outs into it. I'm controlling volume from the TT2.


----------



## 340519

ra990 said:


> This is my backup amp that I just keep around for when the need arises. My balanced outputs from the TT2 developed an issue yesterday so I pulled this thing out to run my Susvara and, truth be told, it sounds great with them on high gain - no noise, clean sounding, no indication of running out of juice even at loud volumes. I'm using it as a power amp with the volume turned all the way up on high gain and using my TT2's single ended outs into it. I'm controlling volume from the TT2.


And it runs the TCs extremely well too.


----------



## StarTreker

dmdm said:


> Nice!  I recently bought an Aorus Gigabyte 17G with the 2070S in it.  I absolutely love it.



That's what I'm hoping to feel like as well when I buy my new Razor Blade 15 Advanced next month. Comes with a Core I7 8-core 16 thread 10th gen CPU, 16GB of RAM, and a 2080 GPU. I'll be upgrading the memory with 32GB of Corsair Vengeance DDR4 2933 RAM.


----------



## 340519

StarTreker said:


> That's what I'm hoping to feel like as well when I buy my new Razor Blade 15 Advanced next month. Comes with a Core I7 8-core 16 thread 10th gen CPU, 16GB of RAM, and a 2080 GPU. I'll be upgrading the memory with 32GB of Corsair Vengeance DDR4 2933 RAM.


Sounds excellent.


----------



## Telin

StarTreker said:


> That's what I'm hoping to feel like as well when I buy my new Razor Blade 15 Advanced next month. Comes with a Core I7 8-core 16 thread 10th gen CPU, 16GB of RAM, and a 2080 GPU. I'll be upgrading the memory with 32GB of Corsair Vengeance DDR4 2933 RAM.


Sounds overpriced to me. 
Guess it's all fine as long as you're ok with paying the Razor tax. 
Possible to get something better for less, or at least something that performs the same but with better build quality. 

In your previous post you described a productivity workload. Unless thunderbolt is an absolute must I would suggest looking at a Ryzen based notebook. Mobile Ryzen is mopping the floor with anything Intel has to offer when it comes to multi threaded workloads. 

This is all way off topic of course 😉🙄


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Has anybody tried to fix the channel imbalance of the pot?


----------



## StarTreker

JoeSlovakia said:


> Has anybody tried to fix the channel imbalance of the pot?



The only way to fix that, that I am aware of, is to replace the POT with a high quality Alps POT. But you have to know what to buy, have a soldering kit, and knowledge on how to desolder the old POT off the board, and solder the new one on. Not an easy or simple task for most people, and certainly not something I was willing to do, while my unit is still under warranty. Another thing you can do to correct for imbalance, is whatever your source material is coming from, weather that be computer, phone whatever, have an app that allows you to just change the balance, about the easiest thing you can do at this point.


----------



## Denosha

mojevajaco said:


> Do you EQ at all. I can't seem to get any magic out of HD6xx no matter what i tried. (Mids are nice but ...



No i don't EQ at all. But i did find that most cans, including the HD6xx, sound better on high-gain on the SP200 (if you haven't already tried this). I doubt the SMSL M8A DAC with cheap brand-less linear PSU in my chain makes much difference to the overall sound.

But with this crazy hobby of ours, a lot of it is down to personal preferences. One person's meat is another person's poison.


----------



## tfwnogf

Any of you guys pair the SP200 with the Audeze LCD-2 Rev 2 ? (non fazor), how does they sound compared to the HA-160DS ?

My friend offered me his Burson HA-160DS for the same price as the SP200 so i'm really in a tight spot rn.


----------



## Denosha

tfwnogf said:


> Any of you guys pair the SP200 with the Audeze LCD-2 Rev 2 ? (non fazor), how does they sound compared to the HA-160DS ?
> 
> My friend offered me his Burson HA-160DS for the same price as the SP200 so i'm really in a tight spot rn.



I have the SP200 (duh), LCD-2 Rev1 (possibly 1.5 as i've had the drivers replaced before) and the Burson Soloist. Assuming there is a "house sound" between the soloist and the HA-160DS, the Burson is warmer sounding with more low-end impact. I personally prefer the LCD-2 with the Burson than with the SP200.


----------



## Telin

mojevajaco said:


> Do you EQ at all. I can't seem to get any magic out of HD6xx no matter what i tried. (Mids are nice but ...


Is it a possibility that the HD6xx is simply not a good match for you personally?

One can measure all they want but in the end how one perceives/hears music is completely personal and unique. That is the main reason why I don't post much if at all in the many "what headphones do you recommend" threads.

My modded Fostex T50rp MKIII for example. 
I modded these headphones in such a way that I really like the sound signature of them and I think they sound extremely good, if not the best, then any other headphones in that price range. 

Yet when I loaned them to my colleague at work he disliked them a lot. 
According to him the treble is too pronounced, the mids too sharp and the bass lacking. I couldn't disagree more..

Even if 5000 other people like the HD6xx doesn't automatically mean that you need to like them to, doesn't mean you need to think that they sound great to. 

I can buy the Sennheiser HD800 which are like 6x (?) as expensive as the modded Fostex T50rp MKIII but that means in no way that I will automatically perceive them as being better sounding. You can throw all the audiophile lingo at it like "more resolving" and "more refined" but that does mean absolutely nothing if you don't like and enjoy the sound that comes out of them. 

Going out on a forum and ask what headphones to buy is like asking someone else what food you like. They can describe what it taste like to them but in the end you need to taste yourself to see if you actually like it or not. 

Just my €0.02


----------



## mojevajaco

Telin said:


> Is it a possibility that the HD6xx is simply not a good match for you personally?
> 
> One can measure all they want but in the end how one perceives/hears music is completely personal and unique. That is the main reason why I don't post much if at all in the many "what headphones do you recommend" threads.
> 
> ...


Man you said it word for word how i feel about this whole recommendation business. .
Being over 45 I'm sure my ears are totally "tuned" differently then they were in my 20s. So i like brighter now then i might have had back then.
It's like suggesting pistachio ice cream to someone who doesn't stray from vanilla.
Until you try for yourself you 'll never really know.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Has anybody replaced the capacitors on the input?


----------



## tfwnogf

Denosha said:


> I have the SP200 (duh), LCD-2 Rev1 (possibly 1.5 as i've had the drivers replaced before) and the Burson Soloist. Assuming there is a "house sound" between the soloist and the HA-160DS, the Burson is warmer sounding with more low-end impact. I personally prefer the LCD-2 with the Burson than with the SP200.


Thanks mate, think ill go with the 160DS for now, for some reason the SP200 is around $400 in my place


----------



## dougms3

Has anyone tested the difference between the RCA and XLR connections?

I know this has been brought up in the past that this amp is not fully balanced and this is 100% true because the grounds come together but I'm definitely noticing a difference between the xlr and rca inputs.  Its very easy to test this since its just the flip of the toggle switch.  

While its not a fully balanced connection, there does seem to be a benefit to running the amp balanced.  Its a fairly significant difference.  Impact and punchiness are the biggest difference to my ears, maybe a little increase in soundstage, detail, clarity, resolution.  While that is debatable, theres no arguing that the volume is about 20% louder with the XLR connection.

Both cables are world's best cables Canare star quad l-4e6s XLR and RCA.

I'm sure the manufacturer wouldn't waste time including the balanced connection if it didn't have any benefit.  I've listened to the naysayers for too long.

Anyone else use the balanced connection notice this?


----------



## gr8soundz

dougms3 said:


> Has anyone tested the difference between the RCA and XLR connections?
> 
> I know this has been brought up in the past that this amp is not fully balanced and this is 100% true because the grounds come together but I'm definitely noticing a difference between the xlr and rca inputs.  Its very easy to test this since its just the flip of the toggle switch.
> 
> ...



Not sure if it helps but I experimented with the XLR inputs some time ago:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/smsl-sp200-thx-aaa-888-balanced-amp.918070/post-15319584

I believe they're mostly for convenience although I wonder if they also help attenuate the stronger signals from most balanced outputs.

However, I still use SE in and out to avoid any single to balanced (or vice-versa) conversions inside the amp. I also use 6in and 12in World's Best Cables Canare interconnects.


----------



## dougms3

gr8soundz said:


> Not sure if it helps but I experimented with the XLR inputs some time ago:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/smsl-sp200-thx-aaa-888-balanced-amp.918070/post-15319584
> 
> I believe they're mostly for convenience although I wonder if they also help attenuate the stronger signals from most balanced outputs.
> ...



Nice write up.  

I haven't noticed any degradation in sound quality with XLR, it only seems like improvements but it could be my ears are not capable of hearing it.

I find it very interesting that theres such a big difference with my gear.  It was stated by many reviewers that theres no difference whatsoever between SE and balanced on this amp but if that were the case there shouldn't be an increase in volume.  That is the big indicator that the amp is drawing more power.  Obviously not to the extent of being fully balanced because of the wiring of the internals but its definitely not the same as SE.

This leads me to believe that the people who stated that theres no difference didn't bother to test it out and were just repeating what they heard or assumed theres no difference based on the ground wiring converging at the amp.

I'm a bit annoyed because I've had the amp for over a year and only discovering this now.


----------



## Minkypou

mojevajaco said:


> Do you EQ at all. I can't seem to get any magic out of HD6xx no matter what i tried. (Mids are nice but ...


i only felt that * magic * with a tube amp back when i had my hd6xx , they were sounding really special on my valhalla 2 and i might even buy a pair again now that i have a feliks echo and a better dac , i bet i could love them again like i already did but even more  

could be a nice open alternative to take breaks from the closed sound of the atticus , even if atticus sometimes feels like an open headphone , it still sounds like a closed one , not a bad thing at all , but with hd6xx it was like a cloud , physically and soundwise . really easy to take and airy .


----------



## gr8soundz

dougms3 said:


> Nice write up.
> 
> I haven't noticed any degradation in sound quality with XLR, it only seems like improvements but it could be my ears are not capable of hearing it.
> 
> ...



One of best features of the SP200 (imo) is the SE and balanced jacks output the same amount of power.

Since joining Head-Fi, I spent a lot of time on balanced setups but the hassle (and cost) of additional headphone cables and adapters for the different types of connectors was always an issue. Then, with most amps, switching to my SE-only headphones reduced the power by half. No such issue with the SP200.

Plus, the XLR inputs are always available when I want to hook up a second DAC.


----------



## Telin

dougms3 said:


> Has anyone tested the difference between the RCA and XLR connections?
> 
> I know this has been brought up in the past that this amp is not fully balanced and this is 100% true because the grounds come together but I'm definitely noticing a difference between the xlr and rca inputs.  Its very easy to test this since its just the flip of the toggle switch.
> 
> ...


I have the M200 / SP200 stack and have connected the SP200 with XLR cables from the M200 DAC.
After reading this I connected the SP200 with the M200 using RCA cables.

At the moment I don't have any balanced headphones at home so the output on the SP200 is always the SE 1/4 socket.

Changing from XLR to RCA between the M200 and SP200 I noticed that the sound is a bit louder when connected with XLR. Other than that I have to say I don't notice any difference in actual SQ. I find it near impossible telling them apart once both XLR and RCA inputs are volume matched.

My conclusion is that the SP200 works and sounds just as good using either XLR or RCA once you take the slight volume difference over XLR out of the equation.
Maybe this changes once you use the XLR output of the SP200 I don't know as I said I don't have any balanced headphones available right now.
I can't find myself agreeing with the statement that the soundstage changes or other similar differences.


----------



## dougms3

Telin said:


> I have the M200 / SP200 stack and have connected the SP200 with XLR cables from the M200 DAC.
> After reading this I connected the SP200 with the M200 using RCA cables.
> 
> At the moment I don't have any balanced headphones at home so the output on the SP200 is always the SE 1/4 socket.
> ...



The differences are subtle, the impact and punchiness of the bass is noticeable, the other details may be just me.

If you're using the Fostex T50RP, its hard to notice anything with that headphone because its not very sensitive to changes in detail and theres so much bass that its going to hard to tell.  I have that headphone also.

May be try it out with something that has higher sensitivity.

Just the fact that the volume is louder should indicate that its not the same as SE.  Does someone have an explanation as to why the volume is louder if both connections are delivering the same power?


----------



## NWcherokee

Telin said:


> I have the M200 / SP200 stack and have connected the SP200 with XLR cables from the M200 DAC.
> After reading this I connected the SP200 with the M200 using RCA cables.
> 
> At the moment I don't have any balanced headphones at home so the output on the SP200 is always the SE 1/4 socket.
> ...


As a newbie here, I have what could be a dumb question but I 'll take the chance...  Is the audible difference in fact attributed to the m200 outputting RMS of around 2 Vrms in RCA versus around 4 Vrms in XLR?


----------



## dougms3 (Feb 22, 2021)

NWcherokee said:


> As a newbie here, I have what could be a dumb question but I 'll take the chance...  Is the audible difference in fact attributed to the m200 outputting RMS of around 2 Vrms in RCA versus around 4 Vrms in XLR?



The XLR output is not fully balanced.  The XLR and RCA are close in performance, not double the output.  If I had to guess, I would say about 20% more output power.

This is a quote from SMSL_Liu on ASR on page 13 of this thread.  I believe SMSL_Liu is an engineer at SMSL or at the very least a CSR.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rements-of-smsl-sp200-thx-hp-amp.9242/page-13

"Dride1401 said: I am a total noob trying to work out what I'm looking at with this stuff. So is this balanced internal circuitry or not? I had a message from both SMSL and Shenzen Audio saying internals were balanced."

"SMSL_Liu said: Nope, I can tell you, there is just 2 AMP inside the SP200, so it is not a real balanced hp out, but It's indeed different from SE out ! in this balanced jack, the "-" signal of 2 headphone speakers is not connected together, it will return to the AMP of its own, so even it is not a real balanced(4 amps), but it is a real balanced design, the performance is not the same as SE out, especially crosstalk, is a lot better!"

Pics of the amp from SMSL-Mandy on ASR page 12 of former thread.








You should read that last page or two at least of this thread NWcherokee


----------



## Telin

dougms3 said:


> The XLR output is not fully balanced.  The XLR and RCA are close in performance, not double the output.  If I had to guess, I would say about 20% more output power.
> 
> This is a quote from SMSL_Liu on ASR on page 13 of this thread.  I believe SMSL_Liu is an engineer at SMSL or at the very least a CSR.
> 
> ...


This is about XLR vs. 1/4 SE headphone output.
I thought we were talking about XLR vs. RCA input where the output stays the same. 
Those are two very different things. 



dougms3 said:


> Just the fact that the volume is louder should indicate that its not the same as SE.



It's not the same as XLR has higher input/output voltage than RCA. 
Louder volume doesn't automatically mean better SQ. It's the same with switching from low gain to high gain, it gets louder but the sound doesn't get better (not on this amp at least 😉 )


----------



## dougms3

Telin said:


> This is about XLR vs. 1/4 SE headphone output.
> I thought we were talking about XLR vs. RCA input where the output stays the same.
> Those are two very different things.
> 
> ...



In that quote, I didn't say louder volume means better SQ.  Just pointed out that louder volume means RCA and XLR are not the same, theres a difference both using XLR vs RCA and 1/4" vs XLR when using the balanced connection.

With my Pioneer SE-M5 its very easy to tell the difference because it picks up alot of detail that I can't hear my other headphones.  Whether I'm just imagining it or its really there, is going to be a point of argument.  But theres no arguing that the volume is louder when you can A-B test with the flip of a toggle switch. 

I'll just say that the headphone makes a huge difference, if you're trying to measure the difference in flow rate of two rivers by swimming in it, its gonna be hard to tell.

With my Sony MDR1-AM2 I can tell the bass is punchier and stronger impact with the balanced connection on the SP200.  Theres alot of things you can't measure on a frequency response graph like bass impact and punchiness and quite alot of other things. 

The reason I brought this up is to explore if theres something there worthwhile looking into to enjoy all the features of the amp.


----------



## Telin

dougms3 said:


> In that quote, I didn't say louder volume means better SQ.  Just pointed out that louder volume means RCA and XLR are not the same, theres a difference both using XLR vs RCA and 1/4" vs XLR when using the balanced connection.
> 
> With my Pioneer SE-M5 its very easy to tell the difference because it picks up alot of detail that I can't hear my other headphones.  Whether I'm just imagining it or its really there, is going to be a point of argument.  But theres no arguing that the volume is louder when you can A-B test with the flip of a toggle switch.
> 
> ...


I'm not disputing if you or anyone else can or can not hear a difference.
I'm just trying to get clear what situation we're talking about here. I thought to understand it started out as purely the difference between XLR and RCA input. But now it seems that the XLR and SE output is taken into the mix to. That changes the question if there's a difference between XLR and RCA inputs.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Hi guys, just want to let you know, that the caps have arrived and will be replacing the base caps on inputs as a base upgrade.
We will have to figure out the placement, as they are quite bigger then the base caps.


----------



## Shakmal

JoeSlovakia said:


> Hi guys, just want to let you know, that the caps have arrived and will be replacing the base caps on inputs as a base upgrade.
> We will have to figure out the placement, as they are quite bigger then the base caps.


Please posts your progress here as I am also interested to do the same if the whole process is not very difficult...certified noobs in soldering...


----------



## Telin

dougms3 said:


> The differences are subtle, the impact and punchiness of the bass is noticeable, the other details may be just me.
> 
> If you're using the Fostex T50RP, its hard to notice anything with that headphone because its not very sensitive to changes in detail and theres so much bass that its going to hard to tell.  I have that headphone also.
> 
> May be try it out with something that has higher sensitivity


Just for giggles I ask my uncle to bring his HD700 and Susvara headphones this weekend. I still couldn't hear any difference once we volume matched the SE and XLR. Without telling why or what I let my uncle listen to and he didn't hear a difference either. 

I still keep to my conclusion that there is no difference.
If there is it is so small that it's only noticable with direct A/B testing. I highly doubt anyone would spot the difference in a controlled blind test or during regular use when one doesn't A/B all the time.


----------



## 340519

I love this amp.


----------



## Telin

dmdm said:


> I love this amp.


Me 2!


----------



## dougms3

Telin said:


> Just for giggles I ask my uncle to bring his HD700 and Susvara headphones this weekend. I still couldn't hear any difference once we volume matched the SE and XLR. Without telling why or what I let my uncle listen to and he didn't hear a difference either.
> 
> I still keep to my conclusion that there is no difference.
> If there is it is so small that it's only noticable with direct A/B testing. I highly doubt anyone would spot the difference in a controlled blind test or during regular use when one doesn't A/B all the time.



You might be right with the front XLR vs 6.3mm headphone outs.  

I think last time I was gauging the difference between them with a higher quality cable on the XLR.  I'll check with my Pioneer SE-M5s, it comes with 3 sets of cables two SE and one balanced so it should be a good reference for that test.

As for the rear inputs, there is no mistaking that it sounds a better with the XLR vs RCA, not by a lot but its noticeable.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Hi guys,
I have figured out that I have ordered the wrong caps for the RCA inputs - 220uF instead of 22uF. I will have to find another type, because the used Nichicon MUSE ES caps are bi-polar. My father told me, that if we will connect it the right way,  then it will work. So I want to find 22uF caps, the best would be to have the KZ series, but I can't buy them in Slovakia. My father added WIMA caps on the other side as a simple upgrade.


----------



## dougms3

Telin said:


> Just for giggles I ask my uncle to bring his HD700 and Susvara headphones this weekend. I still couldn't hear any difference once we volume matched the SE and XLR. Without telling why or what I let my uncle listen to and he didn't hear a difference either.
> 
> I still keep to my conclusion that there is no difference.
> If there is it is so small that it's only noticable with direct A/B testing. I highly doubt anyone would spot the difference in a controlled blind test or during regular use when one doesn't A/B all the time.



I think you're right I can't really tell a difference between the xlr vs rca headphone outs when I use the same cable with an adapter.  The difference I was hearing before was the cable.  I guess the xlr is just there for convenience.


----------



## Louis Albert

I have used the Sennheiser hd 800s with the sp200 and m200 for a month or so and really
enjoyed them. Thanks to a friend I have tried the sp200 with the SMSL SU-9. Never thought
it, but the 800s sound so much better in so many ways. A pair made in love. Fantastic... and 
this for a non believer that dac's could make a huge difference.  (My friend is now my best
friend.)


----------



## flognarde

I have just purchased a second hand SP200, and while waiting for the parcel to be picked, I had few thoughts about the success of these affordable Chinese devices.
My general impression is that they mainly focus on measurements and don't bother that much about how their amps or DAC's subjectively sound. And this is great news ! 
I am done with those boutique devices made by so-called audiophiles who build their craps trying to match their tastes. Tastes that are for most audiophiles highly questionnable. Most of them are so obsessed by the sound rendering that Music tend to be out of the equation, of worse, gets in the way of their audiophiles perceptions. 
I have never heard an audiophile mentioning Furtwängler ... But can spend hours debating about obscure jazzy craps ... 
At these budget prices, I would rather have a "transparent clinical instrument" than a distorted so called "pleasing" sounding set up by a tasteless audiophile.


----------



## Arniesb

flognarde said:


> I have just purchased a second hand SP200, and while waiting for the parcel to be picked, I had few thoughts about the success of these affordable Chinese devices.
> My general impression is that they mainly focus on measurements and don't bother that much about how their amps or DAC's subjectively sound. And this is great news !
> I am done with those boutique devices made by so-called audiophiles who build their craps trying to match their tastes. Tastes that are for most audiophiles highly questionnable. Most of them are so obsessed by the sound rendering that Music tend to be out of the equation, of worse, gets in the way of their audiophiles perceptions.
> I have never heard an audiophile mentioning Furtwängler ... But can spend hours debating about obscure jazzy craps ...
> At these budget prices, I would rather have a "transparent clinical instrument" than a distorted so called "pleasing" sounding set up by a tasteless audiophile.


True! You can just buy cheap copper cables to get more distorion and warmth or just use eq.
The fact that some Headphones need tube amps that cost over 10k to have good mids is just laughable.


----------



## flognarde

Clara Haskil, D.Scarlatti sonata for keyboard in B Minor K.87, poorly mono recorded in 1951 (red book file) played on ROON + SMSL SU-8 + Marantz PM6005 + B&W CDM1 ...


----------



## flognarde

Arniesb said:


> True! You can just buy cheap copper cables to get more distorion and warmth or just use eq.
> The fact that some Headphones need tube amps that cost over 10k to have good mids is just laughable.


I put luxury crap out of the equation. The price, the materials and the design betrays so much the way you perceive music it is almost impossible to debate. No need to even mention the law of diminishing return.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jul 25, 2021)

Hey, folks.  I just joined this forum to discuss the SP200.   I recently did a cap replacement that gave a significant improvement, so see below.

First some background:  I'm not a hi-fi guy,  but a recording studio owner-engineer, so my ears are extremely trained to hear subtkle changes. I also have done hundreds of  careful A-B tests over the years. Caps, tubes, op amps,  different wire,  you name it.   Always blind and sometimes double-blind,  I'm able to admit when there's no difference heard, and that actually happens often. I'm well aware of the psychological factors involved and can usually overcome them. 
Take that as you will.  lol ....

I own six SP200's.  Last year I decided to upgrade my studio cue system, and wanted something decent but not extravagant. Using a few good close-back cans,  I tried about ten prime contenders, including Neve, Massdrop, JDS, etc.   Looking for the most "fun & inspiring" sound, (not necessarily the best accuracy) the Sp200 won pretty easily.    I wish it had a 3-position gain control like the Massdrop, so as to include unity, and maybe someone here has a circuit mod for that, or a way to drop both by 6 dB?
Or even 3 db, as this amp can run out of headroom very quickly.  Careful gain-staging is critical.

Anyway before discussing the cap mod,   Some thoughts on a previous discussion:  RCA inputs vs XLR inputs:
To my ears, they sound identical from an audio standpoint.   Yes, there's a dual op amp in the XLR path, but it is surely running at unity gain, so it's not doing any perceivable damage.

HOWEVER,  surprisingly, the XLR inputs seem to have slightly better stereo separation.   I THINK.  lol...
I tested this several times over several days,  on all sx units, sometimes using different audio sources,  and a few times I did not hear it.   Very, very strange.    I just checked one of my non-modded SP200's before posting this, and I definitely hear the difference today,  enough that I'd never consider using the RCA's. -  But I wouldn't bet money that this will be the case for everyone.

I suggest that you test yours for yourself, as this may be circuit / inter-circuit dependent.
===================================================================

The caps swap:

My main complaint with the stock SP200 is that the bottom end is almost too big, and a little muddy.  OK, the upper mids are also very-slightly recessed (supposedly a thing with THX circuits) but VERY little, and that doesn't make it harder to sing. - Something most hi-fi guys wouldn't care about, anyway.
So,  after opening one up and realizing that the caps were pretty average, I decided to try an upgrade.  Luckily, this time the results were excellent.

I tested all of my six units, and picked two that sounded identical.  Well, they pretty much all did, but the point is, I would have a stock unit for comparison when done.

1:  I changed the two 1500 uf  /  25v PSU caps to Nichicon LKG1E152MESBCK.  This is a fairly new series, and their current top of the line for audio.  (the KG type III "super through")   Plenty of ripple current capacity for a low powered amp like this.
Note that they are the snap-in format, as this value is not available in radial lead right now.  No big deal, as they must be installed on their side, anyway.
Note:  Mouser sells these, but they are backordered until mid September.
----------------------------

2:  I also changed the XLR coupling caps  (or whatever you call them.  DC blocking?)

Stock caps are  220 uf  @ 25v    - Nichoson PW (M)  These are far from audiophile caps.  Sold mainly for switching supplies, from what I can see.
I retrofitted Elna  RFS-35V221MI6#5  ( Silmic II )

I did not change the RCA coupling caps, as I have no intention of using those inputs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The result:    OMG !  The bass tightened up wonderfully.  It's still HUGE,  but no more mud.    The upper mids and HF extension seem about the same, maybe a HAIR more forward on the mids, but I think I'm trying to hear that more than actually hearing it.  I'm still not sure.
Anyway, who cares?  The difference in the LF is staggering.   (Note: It's actually a fairly subtle change,  but undeniable and puts a big smile on my face. To ME, that's staggering.)

Another noticeable change is that the difference between the RCA and XLR inputs is now extremely minor. I probably wouldn't even notice if I weren't listening for it, though there still IS a barely perceptible difference.  This really puzzles me, since if anything the XLR inputs should sound even better than before.


And lastly, there are volume losses, likely due to the much larger caps used.  (From what I've read, this is to be expected, though I'm no expert.)
The overall volume dropped by a few dB.  I haven't measured it because that's a PITA and I don't really care, but I'd guess between 3 & 5 dB, on 250 ohm cans.   I suspect this drop is due to the huge caps.
The XLR inputs also changed,  measuring about 2 dB lower than the RCA inputs.  Again, very strangely, today (2 days later) that difference only sounds like maybe 1 dB.   I didn't measure it, but there definitely is less of a difference.  Could the volume be coming back as the caps break in?
=======================

Well,   of course I HIGHLY recommend this mod to everyone,  though I suspect that only the PSU cap swap is worth the trouble.

###   IMPORTANT WARNING:    On my circuit board, which is version 1.2,  for some reason the holes for the cap leads are extra narrow in diameter.  Make sure to REALLY clean them out, using solder wick after the solder sucker.  Maybe even run a sacrificial lead through them first.  I actually had to sand the leads of the new caps to get them to slide through.  I've done a ton of electronics work over the years, and have never seen this before.  Luckily the boards are beefy and well made, so they can take a little abuse, but I was extremely relieved when I powered the amp up and everything worked.

Also note:  Those LKG's will just, and I mean JUST, fit,  I laid them on their sides and put a small dab of hot glue at the board, to hold them in-place.  See this before-after pic:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9votarwb6uf07t/SP200 Cap Swap, before-after .png?dl=0
=======================

AND A FINAL QUESTION:

Since the PSU cap-swap was clearly worthwhile -

On lower powered circuits,  (EQ's,  mic pres, etc)   it's often beneficial to add low-value HF bypass caps across the big electrolytics.  My old studio tech always did this, and I could sometimes (not always) hear a difference in the HF.  (Speed? Phase? Extension? -  I'm not sure, but definitely nicer.)
On such circuits he would use something like a 1u (or smaller) silver foil cap.  I assume any low ESL poly cap would work well.

Is anyone here competent enough to say if this might help with the SP200?  And if so, what value they would use?


----------



## Cableaddict (Jul 25, 2021)

dougms3 said:


> Has anyone tested the difference between the RCA and XLR connections?
> 
> I know this has been brought up in the past that this amp is not fully balanced and this is 100% true because the grounds come together but I'm definitely noticing a difference between the xlr and rca inputs.  Its very easy to test this since its just the flip of the toggle switch.
> 
> ...


The balanced inputs are there for folks who want to run balanced lines,  for common mode rejection, of course.  If you're running 2' of cable in your living room, it doesn't matter.  I run 20 - 40 feet,  in a room full of EMI and even some RF noise, so balanced is fairly important.

As in my post above,  on my system, with my wiring, there is no volume difference & no tone difference. - only a slight difference in stereo separation,  and I'm not even comfortable stating that as an absolute fact. Frequency response, tightness, etc are all identical.  (Even after I upgraded the XLR caps and not the RCA caps!)

But the system tested on can make a difference.   In my case,  My audio feed is balanced,  and all my grounds are lifted at one end.  (Central grounding scheme)
So both + and - are summed on the RCA jacks.   In some cases,  unbalanced signals can lose 6 dB because half of the source signal is not connected.
But regardless, that's still just a volume thing.  No big deal, really.

If you adjust your volume so both inputs match, do you hear any difference in stereo separation?   (I'm dying to know.)


It might also be a source impedance issue, I suppose,  if your source is marginal.  The input impedance for the XLR's is likely different than the RCA's, since they have that extra circuitry before feeding the SE gain circuits.
If you DO have an impedance issue, then there may also be a slight frequency shift.  You'd have to have a pretty lousy audio source, though. My source impedance is extremely low, so this can't matter on my system.


----------



## dougms3

Cableaddict said:


> As in my post above,  on my system, with my wiring, there is only a slight difference in stereo separation,  and I'm not even comfortable stating that as an absolute fact.
> frequency response, tightness, etc are all identical.  (Even after I upgraded the XLR caps and not the RCA caps!)
> 
> But the system tested on can make a difference.   In my case,  My audio feed is balanced,  and all my grounds are lifted at one end.  (Central grounding scheme)
> ...



I had it paired with a Topping DX3pro and SMSL SU-9 if that helps, not sure what the impedance would be though.

I have since sold my sp200 but for the year that I had it i swear there was a difference.  I kept going back and forth since its fairly easy on the sp200 to a-b test with the flick of a switch and quick volume adjustment.  I know everyone kept saying it was the same but I'm still going to say the sound was a tiny bit better with the balanced connection even though its not fully balanced.  Probably not worth it to justify the purchase of the xlr cables whether theres a difference since its so minor.

Very cool mod.


----------



## Mightygrey

Cableaddict said:


> Hey, folks.  I just joined this forum to discuss the SP200.   I recently did a cap replacement that gave a significant improvement, so see below.
> 
> First some background:  I'm not a hi-fi guy,  but a recording studio owner-engineer, so my ears are extremely trained to hear subtkle changes. I also have done hundreds of  careful A-B tests over the years. Caps, tubes, op amps,  different wire,  you name it.   Always blind and sometimes double-blind,  I'm able to admit when there's no difference heard, and that actually happens often. I'm well aware of the psychological factors involved and can usually overcome them.
> Take that as you will.  lol ....
> ...


This is a high-quality post, and a great read. Nice to hear the thoughts of a pro rather than an audiophile for a change too.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jul 26, 2021)

JoeSlovakia said:


> Has anybody tried to fix the channel imbalance of the pot?



It's a cheap pot, and the wrong taper.  From what I've read,  the imbalances tend to be when it's set at less than 12 o'clock.
Other than retrofitting a very expensive pot, the only solution might be modding the circuit so as to lower the overall gain.
That should be easy to do for a good tech with a schematic, via a simple resistor swap before then THX circuits,  but it's beyond my abilities to figure out exactly how.

With my PSU cap upgrade, these amps are good enough thatI considered adding $$$ stepped attenuators. However, there simply isn't room.
But a high quality plastic-conductor pot should be easy to fit.

But heck, if you can just lower your source volume, then crank the volume pot up, that would help, and it's free. 
----------------


###   BTW, Joe:
A few pages ago, you showed the small caps your Dad added onto the RCA coupling caps,  on the underside of the board.
Those are HF bypass caps.  Exactly what I just asked about, above, although I'm more concerned about the PSU circuit.  

0.1 WIMA polys should be just about right for such a small electrolytic, so your Dad probably knows what he's doing.   (but too small, on a larger cap, can cause a loss of LF.)     Did you hear a difference?   (Did you even have a stock amp for comparison? )

Anyway,  Can you ask him his opinion on the PSU caps, as per my question above?  AFAIK,  It would have to be a higher value,  maybe 1u or more, and I'm not sure if there's a difference between polystyrene vs polypropylene


----------



## Cableaddict (Jul 26, 2021)

JoeSlovakia said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> has anybody replaced the cheap power cord for some better one? My dad ordered this thicc boy as a Xmas gift, but has arrived last week.



Oh lorda' mighty,  please don't fall for that hi-fi hype BS mumbo jumbo.   

No, just no !!!


----------



## Mightygrey

Cableaddict said:


> Oh lorda' mighty,  please don't fall for that hi-fi hype BS mumbo jumbo.
> 
> No, just no !!!


Trust this guy, look at his username!


----------



## Cableaddict (Jul 26, 2021)

Mightygrey said:


> Trust this guy, look at his username!




lol !

That was pretty good.


----------



## JoeSlovakia (Jul 26, 2021)

Cableaddict said:


> It's a cheap pot, and the wrong taper.  From what I've read,  the imbalances tend to be when it's set at less than 12 o'clock.
> Other than retrofitting a very expensive pot, the only solution might be modding the circuit so as to lower the overall gain.
> That should be easy to do for a good tech with a schematic, via a simple resistor swap before then THX circuits,  but it's beyond my abilities to figure out exactly how.
> 
> ...


Hi Cableaddict,

thank you for your post, I will look in to it with my dad (I've also shared your post with him, so we will see). As I have just one unit, we couldn't AB test them.
BTW with that cable - there was a little difference in the sound. I would not buy or let him buy an expensive cable, this was somewhere between 20-30 Euro.

EDIT: I had a phone call with my dad who said, that yes it would be maybe beneficial to add some small caps, but that has to be tested with oscilloscope to write a conclusion. But what he told me, that you made the right choice of caps. I have ordered the wrong caps, so I will be on hold with this project, until the mentioned caps will be in stock. (don't you have some spares?  LOL  )


----------



## StarTreker

And I'm someone who appreciates my SMSL SP200 exactly as it is, and sees no need to perform major surgery on my unit. At the time I bought my unit, it was around 300 dollars then. Im not an electronics engineer, so the last thing I'm going to be doing is voiding my warranty taking a huge risk replacing caps, which may result in the death of my 300 dollar amp.

I did like your post though cause I think it's cool you did all that and got such a positive result! But I simply won't risk it. Just as I knew there were better quality Alps branded volume pots I could get to replace the one on my amp, but I don't trust myself to do the swap without failure.

Like I said, a warranty is only as good as the fact you don't void it lol. And I think my amp has sounded amazing since day one. And I only hear channel imbalance at the very bottom of the volume range, just as your beginning to hear sound.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jul 26, 2021)

JoeSlovakia said:


> Hi Cableaddict,
> 
> thank you for your post, I will look in to it with my dad (I've also shared your post with him, so we will see).


Thx, Joe.  Looking forward to your Dad's suggestion.


Also -  re the RCA blocking caps and your "wrong" values:  AFAIK, there is no "correct" value for this.  It's not an EQ ciruit or similar, just a blocking cap.  They probably used 22uF only because that's what would fit in-between those other caps, and they wanted to keep the case small.   Check with your Dad, but I assume that 220's (laid on there sides) would be even better, especially with those added bypass caps. 

Of course, that 's with the caveat that I don't think upgrading these caps is absolutely needed. (based on my listening test)    But then again, while you're in there doing the PSU,  why not?  Plus, I'm not using super high-end, open ear headphones,  Just Beyer DT770's, 150's and the like.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jul 26, 2021)

StarTreker said:


> And I'm someone who appreciates my SMSL SP200 exactly as it is, and sees no need to perform major surgery on my unit. At the time I bought my unit, it was around 300 dollars then. Im not an electronics engineer, so the last thing I'm going to be doing is voiding my warranty taking a huge risk replacing caps, which may result in the death of my 300 dollar amp.


A wise decision.  "If it aint fixed, don't broke it."

Also the main (only?) improvement is to the bottom end. If your headphones are a bit light there, then you probably wouldn't even notice the change.

---------

IMO,  the warrantee is near meaningless, since the cost to ship something back to China is ridiculous.
- But you definitely don't want to screw the amp up, and that circuit board IS tricky to work on.


----------



## JoeSlovakia (Jul 27, 2021)

Ok, I will discuss the caps with my father. I wanted to keep the caps the same, but they are available only in the USA. I am using only Sundaras with it.

EDIT: I had a discussion with my dad and he explained the blocking caps and their role. As he told me, bigger capacity is not better every time. Caps with bigger capacity will have higher throughput in LF, which can cause instability. But I can order 47uF 25V Nichicon KZ caps to replace those 22uF (closest ones) and we will also replace those 220uF on the XLR inputs as well. And when those big 1500uF caps will be available, then we will replace them as well.


----------



## Nickhasarrived

Cableaddict said:


> Hey, folks.  I just joined this forum to discuss the SP200.   I recently did a cap replacement that gave a significant improvement, so see below.
> 
> First some background:  I'm not a hi-fi guy,  but a recording studio owner-engineer, so my ears are extremely trained to hear subtkle changes. I also have done hundreds of  careful A-B tests over the years. Caps, tubes, op amps,  different wire,  you name it.   Always blind and sometimes double-blind,  I'm able to admit when there's no difference heard, and that actually happens often. I'm well aware of the psychological factors involved and can usually overcome them.
> Take that as you will.  lol ....
> ...


This is an amazing mod. 
I have a friend that would defiantly be interested in this. Going to send him over a link.
Will let you know if he does it, and what we think!


----------



## Cableaddict (Jul 27, 2021)

JoeSlovakia said:


> I had a discussion with my dad and he explained the blocking caps and their role. As he told me, bigger capacity is not better every time. Caps with bigger capacity will have higher throughput in LF, which can cause instability.


Yes, but as I wrote,  too small of a cap can cause some LF loss.   Why would 220 uf cause instability on the rca inputs, but not on the XLR inputs?    It's possible, but unlikely.   SMSL clearly had a space issue with those 22 uf caps, so that's the obvious explanation for that value.
Of course, most users don't hear a difference between the two input types, so the 22's are not likely rolling anything off,  but I'd still go larger if I was to "upgrade" them.

--------------------------

Did your Dad have a recommendation for the PSU HF bypass caps?


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Cableaddict said:


> Yes, but as I wrote,  too small of a cap can cause some LF loss.   Why would 220 uf cause instability on the rca inputs, but not on the XLR inputs?    It's possible, but unlikely.   SMSL clearly had a space issue with those 22 uf caps, so that's the obvious explanation for that value.
> Of course, most users don't hear a difference between the two input types, so the 22's are not likely rolling anything off,  but I'd still go larger if I was to "upgrade" them.
> 
> --------------------------
> ...


No, as he doesn't have an oscilloscope to measure it. But I will have a chat on Thursday or Saturday, so I will ask him! Maybe he will figure something out.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jul 27, 2021)

Thanks,  Joe.

I have another question for him, or anyone here with high level EE knowledge:

*##     Is there any way (even costly / difficult) to lower the output impedance of this amp?    
------------------------*

I have the unfortunate need to use these with both studio cans and low impedance IEM's.  In fact, my favorite IEM's are the Shure SE846, and they are only 9 ohms.     The SP200 output has been measured independently as being 1.3 ohms.   That's not nearly as low as amps like the  O2 amp, the JDS Atom, etc,   and it's a HORRIBLE match with my 846's.   They sound AWFUL. (harsh, no LF, etc)

I stupidly decided on my new studio amps based only on testing with 250 - 600 ohms.  Now, I literally can't use my IEM's.
I may try other good IEM's that are 16 ohm or more, but I hate the idea of retiring those amazing 846's.  

I tried an inline resistor network at 80 ohms, but while this brought back the LF and lowered the distortion, it also killed a significant amount of HF.  (resistance is not capacitance.)  Ugh .....
======================================================================================


So, I'm wondering if there's ANY hope of electronically lowering the output impedance.  I know of no amp that comes close to this design, for less than 2-3X the price, so I'm willing to sink some money and time into such a mod.

Maybe change the gain structure, by lowering both the input and the output resistance?
------------------------

*##  Maybe a different op amp?  

The two stock SP200 gain op amps are OPA1612A.*

The Benchmarl HPA4,   a $3,000 THX-888 design,   uses  2 * OPA 564  *op amps.    Surprisingly, (to me) It also uses a pair of OPA1612A dual op-amps as "error-correction" amplifiers.

The HP4A has a rated output impedance of “less than 1 ohm”   Given my SE846’s 9 ohm impedance,  that could actually make a big difference to me.

I’d LOVE to know why Benchmark used this alternate 20-pin power ic,  and then used what the SP200 uses as some kind of ancillary circuit.  What is “error-correction?” 

And the obvious questions: 

*1:  Can the OPA 564 be used as a direct-replacement for the SP200’s 1612A?  (I suspect not) 

2:  Is so, might it sound better?   - *Maybe not. Both ic’s cost about the same $8-$9 each.

*3:  If so, could it possibly have a lower output impedance?   - *The HP4A has a rated output impedance of “less than 1 ohm”   Given my SE846’s 9 ohm impedance,  that could actually make a big difference to me.


----------



## Forsaked

Cableaddict said:


> Thanks,  Joe.
> 
> I have another question for him, or anyone here with high level EE knowledge:
> 
> ...


The Singxer SA-1 has less then 1 Ohm output impedance on low Z mode.
But it is an class A/AB amp which would fit in the 2-3 times price range.


----------



## Cableaddict

Forsaked said:


> The Singxer SA-1 has less then 1 Ohm output impedance on low Z mode.
> But it is an class A/AB amp which would fit in the 2-3 times price range.



Yeah, I'm not about to sell all six SP200's and then spend that kind of money.  Ouch....

FWIW,  on another thread more geared towards electronics,  one member thinks that the main problem with the SP200 is the power supply, which has lots of voltage swing (good for 250 cans) but lousy current, which is bad for IEMs.   I suppose a good external psu could help, but that's gonna' be expensive, and I still might have an impedance issue.

Ughh.......


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Cableaddict - have you tried the cap swap step by step and tested it? Just to make sure


----------



## Cableaddict

JoeSlovakia said:


> Cableaddict - have you tried the cap swap step by step and tested it? Just to make sure




No need.  Read my post carefully.

I AM interested in also trying some bypass caps, both on the input coupling caps and (esp) on the power supply caps. -  But I was hoping to first hear back from Joe, re what values his Dad would recommend.    0.1 uf might be a bight small for a 1500 uf reservoir cap.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Cableaddict said:


> No need.  Read my post carefully.
> 
> I AM interested in also trying some bypass caps, both on the input coupling caps and (esp) on the power supply caps. -  But I was hoping to first hear back from Joe, re what values his Dad would recommend.    0.1 uf might be a bight small for a 1500 uf reservoir cap.


I wrote you, that my dad needs an oscilloscope to measure it as he told me, that it has no benefit to add them on a high grade cap as those 1500uF are


----------



## Cableaddict

JoeSlovakia said:


> I wrote you, that my dad needs an oscilloscope to measure it as he told me, that it has no benefit to add them on a high grade cap as those 1500uF are


Thanks, Joe.

I had a feeling that might be the case, esp since those super-premium caps I replaced are last in the chain.  I also have no scope so can't check for ripple, but the amp sounds great so...  Also I've read that sometimes those tiny caps let enough ultra HF through that it can cause oscillation & other issues.    
 I still have a hankering to try a 0.1 uf cog, because you know I just can't help myself  (lol....)   but I realize now that the chance of it helping is very small.

Thank your Dad for me.

----------------------------------

-  But what about mf caps,  say 15 uf?       The power supply is so close to the gain circuits that again, it probably doesn't matter, and a 15 uf polyethylene cap is WAY too larger to fit,  but one could squeeze a couple of Elna RFS (Simic II) electro in there.   I might try that just for fun, and just using my ears to test.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

@Cableaddict


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Cableaddict said:


> Yeah, I'm not about to sell all six SP200's and then spend that kind of money.  Ouch....


So for you to be able to work with shure 846 you need to get rid all 6pcs of SP200? How about cut to become 3pcs, and sell the rest?

Topping L30 has 0,1 ohm output impedance btw, and 3 gain settings, which is should suit any IEM.


----------



## Cableaddict

JoeSlovakia said:


> @Cableaddict




And you believe them?

C'mon Joe ....


----------



## JoeSlovakia

We can use whatever we want 😉


----------



## StarTreker

JoeSlovakia said:


> @Cableaddict



Your a rebel, rules be damned, you shall franken amp this thing to produce 1.21 jigawatts!


----------



## JoeSlovakia

@Cableaddict I have checked the Nichicon LKG1E152MESBCK caps, but they will be available next year  So I will replace the caps only on the inputs. That's sad


----------



## dunring

TheMiddleSky said:


> So for you to be able to work with shure 846 you need to get rid all 6pcs of SP200? How about cut to become 3pcs, and sell the rest?
> 
> Topping L30 has 0,1 ohm output impedance btw, and 3 gain settings, which is should suit any IEM.


I just had an SP200 last week and got an L30 in the other day. The low gain on it is so good with sensitive IEM's. The SP200 in low gain mode gives great bass dynamics, but the only IEM's I could use with it were the VE Monk 64ohm. The low ohm ones I've had on it are the perfect amount of power on the low gain setting with the L30.


----------



## StarTreker

SP200 is primarily designed to AMP On Ears and Over Ears, it's not meant for IEMs, which is why your experience is not ideal. Good to hear at least 1-pair worked ok however.

With these guys messing around with chip and caps replacements on here, I bet they could build a custom SP200 for IEMs.


----------



## Cableaddict

JoeSlovakia said:


> @Cableaddict I have checked the Nichicon LKG1E152MESBCK caps, but they will be available next year  So I will replace the caps only on the inputs. That's sad




Wow.  Mouser USA had said they will be in stock by Sept 15th, when I ordered, and I have 10 on backorder.   Now (as you say) they've changed it to June 2022!
- And they are the USA's main Nichicon retailer, so this is bad.

Elna doesn't have 1500 in their RFS series (Simic 2) but they do have 1000uf / 25v and it looks like it will easily fit. (sideways)
That might be worth a try, though it would be nice to have a scope and test for ripple afterwards.   Still, your ears are the best test equipment so maybe worth an experiment. They are certainly excellent caps, sonically.

Or maybe try the (still very good)   Nichicon UFG1E222MHM  (Muse) which is 2200uf.   Lots of high-end studio equipment uses UFG's, so they can't suck.

Maybe someone has another idea?   - Or maybe just adding mf and hf bypass caps to the stock 1500's would be enough. I have no idea.


----------



## animalelder

Would using an iEMatch+ by iFi with a 1/4” adapter allow for using IEMs with the SP200? It reduces gain by 12 or 24db via switch. Or is the issue somehow output impedance related? I thought that this amp’s output impedance is near 0 ohms…

https://ifi-audio.com/products/iematch-plus/


----------



## Cableaddict (Aug 10, 2021)

"Near zero ohms"  can mean anything, it's just marketing.
There must be a reason they don't actually give the impedance in their specs.
One very credible source tested and found 1.3 ohms,   which would perfectly explain the sound I get with my 9 ohm IEMs.

Another fairly credible source says the output impedance is significantly lower, but I suspect they made a mistake.
--------

As for inline resistor networks:  (H-pads, L-pads, etc)   Realize that they typically do NOT (theoretically) change impedance, just resistance. (Including that IEM Match device, which does not claim to help with impedance issues.)  - Although I would not bet my life on this, and there ARE a few different ways to construct such a network, so some might be better than others.  So Far I have only tried an 80 ohm unit from Ebay-China.  It brought my IEM's to "approximately" the same volume as my 600 ohm cans, and it did seem to bring back some LF and remove the harsh mids.
However, it also kills a significant amount of HF. - Enough that I can't stand to listen this way.

I'm in the process of trying a modified H-pad design I recently found on some DIY forum.  I have the parts, just have to find the time.....

FWIW,  that  iEMatch unit is a bit overpriced, though I guess it's convenient for some users.  Being passive, it can't be anything more than two separate resistor networks, with a switch.  Maybe $20 worth of parts, all-in.
Such is the Hi-Fi world ......
Still, if anyone has used this device, I'd live to know if their claim about "no HF loss" is really true. (I doubt it.)
If so, then there is hope, but numerous negative revues on Amazon say it ruins the sound. so ......

I wish there was some simple, ACTIVE device that could act as a non-coloring, unity-gain (or ideally gain drop) "impedance lowerer."  High input impedance & maybe 0.1 ohm output.  - But nothing seems to exist, nor can I find any plans for one.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

@Cableaddict have you thought about replacing the 4 SMD caps right after the PSU? What are those? 470uF 25V?


----------



## Cableaddict (Aug 10, 2021)

JoeSlovakia said:


> @Cableaddict have you thought about replacing the 4 SMD caps right after the PSU? What are those? 470uF 25V?




Working on smd stuff scares me.  Pretty easy to damage your circuit board, IMO.

Those appear to be Panasonic TC-V series aluminum electrolytics  (I think) which are far from audio grade.  Yes, 470uf / 25v and polarized.
I neglected to trace the leads when I had mine open, but from the top they seem to be the first filter caps after the tranny, in which case, (AFAIK) the following caps are more important.  Except usually (AFAIK) the first caps are the largest.    Maybe someone could reverse-engineer a schematic of just the psu section?
It might even be worth bypassing those from underneath. -  But bypassing psu caps is supposedly a bit harder than coupling caps.  I may try it with 2 values, one for MF and one for HF,  but I will be guessing.  (It won't blow anything up if I get it wrong.)  Or I may not bother.  
-  What am I saying?  Of COURSE I will try it eventually. I won't be able to help myself.  lol....   Maybe a 5 uf film cap for mids and a 0.1 PET for highs?  Maybe somebody out on this forum can suggest better values?

Anyway, bear in mind that I know just enough about electronic theory to destroy some pretty expensive gear.  I'm REALLY not the right person to make any decisions about these things.   Swapping a high-end cap with the right specs (in this case, a good ripple current rating) for a cheaper cap of the same value is easy.  Adding bypass caps (without owning a scope) is fairly easy as long as you use your ears and are prepared to remove them when needed.    -  And that's about as far as I can go.  I don't even swap op amps, unless the replacement is known to have the right properties for that particular circuit.

The one thing I DO know (after 30 years of modding high end recording studio gear with help from the best techs in the business)   is that the psu absolutely does matter in terms of audio quality.  It stuns me that many audio techs don't understand that.


----------



## JoeSlovakia (Aug 11, 2021)

Thats why I want to replace those 4 smd caps right after the PSU and also the two 1500uF caps to have the best result.

-----------------------------------------
Edit: My dad is able to replace those SMD caps. thinking about these Nichicon UKZ1E471MHM but maybe some Philips 25SEK470M or 25SVPK470M os-con caps would be better. what do you think @Cableaddict ?


----------



## Kezter

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone has ever had problems with their SP200 overheating? I have noticed sometimes with mine, when the volume is on high side I will hear a relay click inside the unit and the sound stops coming out.. then after a few seconds it clicks back on, and off again, etc. The higher the volume, the more often it will click off. Yesterday was very hot and it was clicking off very consistently, whereas today is much cooler and I can't get it to happen at all.. so it feels like it might be a thermal issue?
I have done some googling and haven't seen any other examples of this problem.


----------



## Cableaddict

JoeSlovakia said:


> Thats why I want to replace those 4 smd caps right after the PSU and also the two 1500uF caps to have the best result.
> 
> -----------------------------------------
> Edit: My dad is able to replace those SMD caps. thinking about these Nichicon UKZ1E471MHM but maybe some Philips 25SEK470M or 25SVPK470M os-con caps would be better. what do you think @Cableaddict ?




Again, I really don't know.  If they will fit (along with those other rather large 1500's you will eventually install)  then sure, why not?    But they may NOT fit, @ 16 x 25mm.
And again, it might be just as good, or even better, to just add MF and HF bypass caps.  I have no idea.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Cableaddict said:


> Again, I really don't know.  If they will fit (along with those other rather large 1500's you will eventually install)  then sure, why not?    But they may NOT fit, @ 16 x 25mm.
> And again, it might be just as good, or even better, to just add MF and HF bypass caps.  I have no idea.


But which would you recommend?


----------



## StarTreker

Kezter said:


> Hi all,
> I was wondering if anyone has ever had problems with their SP200 overheating? I have noticed sometimes with mine, when the volume is on high side I will hear a relay click inside the unit and the sound stops coming out.. then after a few seconds it clicks back on, and off again, etc. The higher the volume, the more often it will click off. Yesterday was very hot and it was clicking off very consistently, whereas today is much cooler and I can't get it to happen at all.. so it feels like it might be a thermal issue?
> I have done some googling and haven't seen any other examples of this problem.



We have talked about how sometimes the SP200 will get quite warm, while other times it remains cool. We're not quite sure why that happens, and have been waiting for an electronics engineer, to do some audio science to figure it out.

What I haven't heard of however, is the relay clicking on and off as if it's entering a thermal protect mode, that hasn't happened to me yet. 

Other then volume, what kind of load are you putting on it? How many ohms is the cans? I'm trying to figure out if your overloading the amp or it just simply is defective.

I will say that I only sometimes put my volume past 50 to 60%, but not for headphones. When hooked up to a self amplified Bluetooth speaker in wired mode, while watching a stream in a noisy room ya.

But it's not good to run an amp beyond 50% on a permanent basis, not the best on the internals. We got these guys in here wanting to replace chips and caps, you'd think they'd be perfectly qualified to figure it out.


----------



## Kezter

Thanks for the response. I am mostly using HiFiMan Sundaras which are 37ohm, however once the problem starts it can happen very consistently and at lower volumes with cans like SHP9500.

It's weird cause today I have been deliberately trying to push them, my Fostex T50RP mk3 are probably the headphones I can run the highest on this amp and still be comfortable (which is only around 50% in high gain). I have been listening to them pretty loud all day and it's been fine, the amp is warm but today has been much much colder than yesterday when it was happening a lot.

One other thing is I am using XLR Y splitters from my DAC to two headphone amps (the other is an Arcam rHead). It is my understanding that this should be fine? It's hard to test as the problem is very intermittent.


----------



## JoeSlovakia (Sep 10, 2021)

So I made a list of caps, that I will buy and test out:

4x Panasonic EEH-AZS1E471B - Aluminium Organic Polymer Capacitors 25VDC 470uF 20% LG HiRip/LoESR for the power supply part
2x Nichicon LKG1E222MESYCK - Aluminium Electrolytic Capacitors - Snap In 2200uF 25 Volts 20% as a replacement for the 1500uF caps and as an upgrade
2x Panasonic EEU-FS1E222 - Aluminium Electrolytic Capacitors - Radial Leaded 25VDC 2200uF 10000H - same as the mentioned Nichicon but with lower ESR and high Ripple current
For inputs I will order some Nichicon FG caps, I have 6x KZ caps that can be used, but in a Facebook DIY thread they wrote, that I should use FG and not KZ, as FG caps have better sonic performance. Has anybody tested the difference between the KZ vs FG?

EDIT1: I think that I will use the Panasonic caps for the power, as they have lower ESR and high ripple current. Also the 2200uF caps will be an upgrade. 
EDIT2: Even those stock 1500uF Panasonic caps after the PSU are high Ripple, low ESR. From what I can see those are FM series caps, so not bad at all for the PSU. Those stock 470uF SMD caps are worse, ripple current 850mA, the impedance is arround 0,08Ohm, the replacement caps have a nice 3500mA ripple current, ESR of 0,014Ohm.


----------



## Cableaddict (Sep 10, 2021)

Good list, Joe.  It should help a lot of folks who wanted to try this.

Thoughts on the psu caps:

1:  I don't know that you need to get so hung up on having the highest ripple current rating.  AFAIK, you only need high enough to deal with the particular circuit being worked on.  This psu is pretty tiny, compared to something in a high-powered tube amp. 
------------

2:  UFG better sounding than UKZ?   I doubt it.  In my research, I found that ONE thread where ONE guy claims this.  No one else does, and Nichicon themselves say the UKZ was always their premium AUDIO cap.  Many guys used them instead of Black Gates.  The downside is they don't come in very large values.
Having said that, I own two super-premium pieces of recording studio gear that use FG,  but that's probably due to size restrictions inside the 1U chassis.

As of this year, their new premium audio line is the LKG.  They also have pretty high ripple current ratings.
Oddly, they only seem to come as snap-in in values under 8200 uf.
------------

3:   Going to 2200 is not necessarily an upgrade,  unless 1500 is starving for power on peaks,  and it sure doesn't sound like it to me with either 600 ohm cans or 9 ohm IEMs.   Going bigger might actually end up sounding slower, unless you do a MF and HF bypass.   Wait, you ARE doing bypass with those organic polymers, so very good then.  I think it's worth a try IF THERE'S ROOM.   (I could JUST barely make the 1500's fit,  so good luck! )

Of course, probably, there won't even be a sonic difference between the two, and either will be an improvement over stock.
Too bad you don' have a second SP200 to keep stock, so you can compare.  I'm not sure how you can audition various caps, otherwise.
----------------------------------------

I'm a huge fan of Panasonic FM caps, BTW.  excellent sound for the money, and they seem to last forever.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

Yes, we don't need to have the highest ripple current capability. I talked to my dad who said, that I can have higher ripple, but I should search for the lowest ESR possible. Those 470uF are oscon caps if I am not wrong and those should be pretty good.

The 2200uF caps from Panasonic are smaller then yours and there is no 1500uF version of it available. 1,85A ripple for those LKG is far enough for this application, but what is the ESR?

And I want to find one stock unit somewhere in Slovakia/Czech Republic to borrow. We will see.

The Facebook group did not recommended to replace those caps, as there is no point. It will not have better sound etc. Everybody there was afraid to solder those SMD caps, because it can damage the board bla bla bla.. my father, who does this kind of job on a daily basis is not afraid so neither am I


----------



## Terozzzz

I don't know what is going on, i do not believe in balanced cables etc and SMSL SP200 isn't even true balanced amp.
Then WHY does the balanced output of SMSL SP200 (DAC is SMSL SU-9) open my hifiman anandas soundstage by a lot? With single ended cable the soundstage is kinda narrow and closed up (just and just outside my head) but with aftermarket balanced cable its like HD800 level, soundstage is all over my room and HUGE..


----------



## maheeinfy

there is a amazon review that this amp lacks dynamics and suffers from compressions. Has anyone felt the same way using this? Thanks


----------



## gr8soundz

maheeinfy said:


> there is a amazon review that this amp lacks dynamics and suffers from compressions. Has anyone felt the same way using this? Thanks



Whoever said that must be talking about a bad pairing or perhaps an issue with their source/dac or headphones. Assuming their SP200 is working properly of course.

I've had mine almost 2 years now and I'd never describe it as lacking dynamics or sounding compressed. It puts out whatever you give it; bad in bad out, etc. SP200 imo is about the most clean/clear/neutral sounding yet almost too powerful amp you can buy at it's price. I know it's not fully balanced but it goes to show how some gear doesn't need it when done properly. Don't think I've ever gone past 12 o'clock volume since it has so much power. In fact, I recently sold my fully balanced amp after realizing I hadn't used it even once since getting the SP200. Also, each time I think of upgrading to another amp, I realize how much more I'd need to spend (prob 10x more) just for a slight (5%) improvement.

Last I checked, it was selling for $160 at drop.com. That's lot less than I paid. If you know of a better amp at that price or even 2x higher please post about it here.


----------



## maheeinfy

gr8soundz said:


> Whoever said that must be talking about a bad pairing or perhaps an issue with their source/dac or headphones. Assuming their SP200 is working properly of course.
> 
> I've had mine almost 2 years now and I'd never describe it as lacking dynamics or sounding compressed. It puts out whatever you give it; bad in bad out, etc. SP200 imo is about the most clean/clear/neutral sounding yet almost too powerful amp you can buy at it's price. I know it's not fully balanced but it goes to show how some gear doesn't need it when done properly. Don't think I've ever gone past 12 o'clock volume since it has so much power. In fact, I recently sold my fully balanced amp after realizing I hadn't used it even once since getting the SP200. Also, each time I think of upgrading to another amp, I realize how much more I'd need to spend (prob 10x more) just for a slight (5%) improvement.
> 
> Last I checked, it was selling for $160 at drop.com. That's lot less than I paid. If you know of a better amp at that price or even 2x higher please post about it here.


Good to know there are no issues with dynamics. $160 seems like a great price for this amp. I will give it a shot. Thanks again


----------



## dunring

maheeinfy said:


> Good to know there are no issues with dynamics. $160 seems like a great price for this amp. I will give it a shot. Thanks again


I've got one behind me and it's a good amp, but I really liked the Drop 789 One better (deeper sound stage) though the fit and finish is pretty cheap. The SP200 is built like a tank. I would recommend not to use Monoprice cables with it, sounded horrible until I got some Kabeldirekt and Cablesonline ones and then it sounded good. The XLR is there for convenience, and it has two gains, high and higher  I'm using the Magni Heresy now, which isn't warm like the Magni 3+ but I'd describe it as "treble forgiving" for bright headphones. On the SP200 it doesn't hide anything, so you better have the rest of the chain just where you want it. The Khadas tone board was bright with it and had a hiss at 90 percent volume and 65 percent in high gain when pausing a song which I couldn't fix. The JDS Labs 4490 DAC works well, which has a seperate power supply so that might be it. Even my Soundblaster Play3 sounded good on it (consumer friendly warmish) except the output voltage was lacking, but with Windows drivers and no software effects in stereo/line out mode it really did sound good on the SP200. I get stuff all the time and pair things with any DAC laying around at the time... If I could trade this right now for a Drop 789 One I would, just to give an idea how nice the 789's sound compared.


----------



## maheeinfy

dunring said:


> I've got one behind me and it's a good amp, but I really liked the Drop 789 One better (deeper sound stage) though the fit and finish is pretty cheap. The SP200 is built like a tank. I would recommend not to use Monoprice cables with it, sounded horrible until I got some Kabeldirekt and Cablesonline ones and then it sounded good. The XLR is there for convenience, and it has two gains, high and higher  I'm using the Magni Heresy now, which isn't warm like the Magni 3+ but I'd describe it as "treble forgiving" for bright headphones. On the SP200 it doesn't hide anything, so you better have the rest of the chain just where you want it. The Khadas tone board was bright with it and had a hiss at 90 percent volume and 65 percent in high gain when pausing a song which I couldn't fix. The JDS Labs 4490 DAC works well, which has a seperate power supply so that might be it. Even my Soundblaster Play3 sounded good on it (consumer friendly warmish) except the output voltage was lacking, but with Windows drivers and no software effects in stereo/line out mode it really did sound good on the SP200. I get stuff all the time and pair things with any DAC laying around at the time... If I could trade this right now for a Drop 789 One I would, just to give an idea how nice the 789's sound compared.


Nice post. I like my 789 already and i think its put together decent enough. Volume knob on scratchy on first unit and i got it replaced
I will still try the sp200 just because. I may repurpose it later in secondary system
Try worlds best cables on amazon. They are well made with mogami/canare and dont burn a hole in pocket either


----------



## gr8soundz

maheeinfy said:


> Try worlds best cables on amazon. They are well made with mogami/canare and dont burn a hole in pocket either



That's what I use for all my interconnects. Agreed, pretty good cables imo and relatively inexpensive. Also use Wireworld cables for power to DAC and amp.


----------



## JoeSlovakia

gr8soundz said:


> Whoever said that must be talking about a bad pairing or perhaps an issue with their source/dac or headphones. Assuming their SP200 is working properly of course.
> 
> I've had mine almost 2 years now and I'd never describe it as lacking dynamics or sounding compressed. It puts out whatever you give it; bad in bad out, etc. SP200 imo is about the most clean/clear/neutral sounding yet almost too powerful amp you can buy at it's price. I know it's not fully balanced but it goes to show how some gear doesn't need it when done properly. Don't think I've ever gone past 12 o'clock volume since it has so much power. In fact, I recently sold my fully balanced amp after realizing I hadn't used it even once since getting the SP200. Also, each time I think of upgrading to another amp, I realize how much more I'd need to spend (prob 10x more) just for a slight (5%) improvement.
> 
> Last I checked, it was selling for $160 at drop.com. That's lot less than I paid. If you know of a better amp at that price or even 2x higher please post about it here.



Same here. I've got mine for 1,5 year and when thinking about replacing it with something else I just don't want to spend a lot more for just a slight bump in the overall performance. As you wrote, you can throw anything at it and it will deliver. I bought an Xduoo MT-602 for my dad as s bday gift and had a chance to listen to it for a couple of days and as it is more musical/organic and warmer sounding and I want that amp but I will definitely not sell my SP200 in the near future. I bought it for around 190Euro and that was a great price 1,5 year ago. I want to do mods to it, so I will definitely not sell it


----------



## JoeSlovakia

dunring said:


> I've got one behind me and it's a good amp, but I really liked the Drop 789 One better (deeper sound stage) though the fit and finish is pretty cheap. The SP200 is built like a tank. I would recommend not to use Monoprice cables with it, sounded horrible until I got some Kabeldirekt and Cablesonline ones and then it sounded good. The XLR is there for convenience, and it has two gains, high and higher  I'm using the Magni Heresy now, which isn't warm like the Magni 3+ but I'd describe it as "treble forgiving" for bright headphones. On the SP200 it doesn't hide anything, so you better have the rest of the chain just where you want it. The Khadas tone board was bright with it and had a hiss at 90 percent volume and 65 percent in high gain when pausing a song which I couldn't fix. The JDS Labs 4490 DAC works well, which has a seperate power supply so that might be it. Even my Soundblaster Play3 sounded good on it (consumer friendly warmish) except the output voltage was lacking, but with Windows drivers and no software effects in stereo/line out mode it really did sound good on the SP200. I get stuff all the time and pair things with any DAC laying around at the time... If I could trade this right now for a Drop 789 One I would, just to give an idea how nice the 789's sound compared.


It's like going from really cheap interconnects that are actually not cheap enough to better quality ones. Also for me, the power cable made a big difference on the sound and the sound stage. Okay, not actually a big difference but made an improvement.


----------



## pataburd (Nov 16, 2021)

Terozzzz said:


> I don't know what is going on, i do not believe in balanced cables etc and SMSL SP200 isn't even true balanced amp.
> Then WHY does the balanced output of SMSL SP200 (DAC is SMSL SU-9) open my hifiman anandas soundstage by a lot? With single ended cable the soundstage is kinda narrow and closed up (just and just outside my head) but with aftermarket balanced cable its like HD800 level, soundstage is all over my room and HUGE..


Same here(!).
My aftermarket balanced cable, with an [XLR-to-1/4"] adapter, running from the single-ended socket, sounds narrower and sharper than it does running directly from the 4-pin socket [sans adapter].
Am surprised at how well the SP200 presents the Sundara: (+) clean, transparent, detailed, layered and expansive.
The Mikros 90 (closed portables) sound very spacious as well.


----------



## pataburd (Nov 15, 2021)

JoeSlovakia said:


> It's like going from really cheap interconnects that are actually not cheap enough to better quality ones. Also for me, the power cable made a big difference on the sound and the sound stage. Okay, not actually a big difference but made an improvement.


The SP200 responds well to cable changes.  Mine is running with a MAC PC (power cord) and SoundSilver Cosmos (interconnect), both affordable but well-performing cables.


----------



## stuck limo

pataburd said:


> The SP200 responds well to cable changes.  Mine is running with a MAC PC (power cord) and SoundSilver Cosmos (interconnect), both affordable but well-performing cables.



I havent noticed any power cord audible changes on this.


----------



## pataburd (Nov 16, 2021)

Actually, I only changed out the interconnect.  The power cord on the SP200 has been aftermarket since day one (which wasn't too long ago).  Do have some other PCs on hand, though, and might try switching them around and listening for differences.

Definitely heard improvements in clarity, detail, extension, etc., going from a copper Pipeline ET-4 interconnect to the gold-infused silver SoundSilver Cosmos.


----------



## ronfifer (Dec 11, 2021)

can someone tell me what is the specified power output on the XLR output vs the SE output?


----------



## ronfifer

Anyone tried the HE4XX headphones on the pseudo-balanced XLR output of the SMSL SP200 amp using balanced cables? If yes, did you notice any improvement?


----------



## StarTreker

SMSL SP200: 6-watts into 16-ohms, 3-watts into 32-ohms. 440-mw into 300-ohms, 220-mw into 600-ohms. 

In other words, strap your seatbelts, cause this AMP is going to take you for the ride of your life. Make sure to sign your waver form. SMSL is not liable for popping your cork in audiophile extacy.


----------



## ronfifer

that doesnt answer for SE vs XLR power outputs. or does it?


----------



## gr8soundz

ronfifer said:


> that doesnt answer for SE vs XLR power outputs. or does it?



Output is same 6W max for SE and XLR. The SP200 isn't fully balanced (XLR input/output mostly there for convenience) so unlike other amps there's no power difference.


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## ronfifer

what is a similarly powerful and neutral amp but with True balanced xlr output? same price range.


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## pataburd

ronfifer said:


> can someone tell me what is the specified power output on the XLR output vs the SE output?


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## pataburd (Dec 11, 2021)

ronfifer said:


> Anyone tried the HE4XX headphones on the pseudo-balanced XLR output of the SMSL SP200 amp using balanced cables? If yes, did you notice any improvement?


Do not have the HE4XX (35ohm/90dB), but have driven the Sundara (37ohm/93dB) with the SP200 through the XLR inputs and XLR headphone out. 

I _thought_ [like a few others] I heard a more open/detailed soundstage through the XLR, but did not seriously a/b XLR versus the SE headphone out.  The SP200 had plenty of power but the presentation was somewhat compressed.

Eventually went directly to a Wadia 151 DAC/amp (see signature), with a speaker taps-to-4-pin XLR adapter, added a USB Disruptor, Wyred4Sound Recovery and an aftermarket cable.  Result: the Sundara sound remarkably capable: balanced--tonally and frequency-wise (more-so than the Ananda, IMHO), coherent (more-so than the Ananda, IMHO), transparent and even spacious.


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## pataburd (Dec 11, 2021)

ronfifer said:


> what is a similarly powerful and neutral amp but with True balanced xlr output? same price range.


The Schiit Magni*us* is truly balanced (delivering 5W/32ohms at balanced output) and lists for $199 USD, but can be currently bought used for about $150.

Same(ish) price range.  However, not having personally owned one (only had the Magni [$99, SE only, 2.4W/32ohm] for a very brief stint), I cannot attest to the Magni*us*'s "neutrality".

https://www.schiit.com/products/magnius


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## ronfifer

thanks Pataburd. I cant find the Like button anywhere otherwise I would have "liked". Maybe because i am using an adblocker.


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## ronfifer

But on the manufacturer's website the specs say XLR is 4VRMS while SE is 2VRMS. That suggests there is a difference after all.  Any expert opinion?


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## StarTreker

ronfifer said:


> But on the manufacturer's website the specs say XLR is 4VRMS while SE is 2VRMS. That suggests there is a difference after all.  Any expert opinion?



That's on the input stage. XLR gets a total of 4-volts RMS for line voltage. Where as SE gets 2-volts RMS.

All that really means is you get more input gain available, which usually means less volume required in amping. 

Where as SE connection, you might have to use more volume is all. But in regards to amping on the output stage, they are the same.

Recommendation? Use XLR if you got it. If not, use SE, don't overthink it, just be happy.


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## Telin

ronfifer said:


> what is a similarly powerful and neutral amp but with True balanced xlr output? same price range.


Modern AMPs like the SP200 and A30Pro offers more than enough power over SE, one doesn't need XLR. Only advantage of XLR headphones out is the added power over SE but these AMPs already have enough power through SE so there's nothing to improve.


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## dunring

I have a couple of amps and DACs in for the business and done some real world testing with them. I currently have:
SMSL SP200, Drop THX 789, and the Drop THX One version also.
DACs are the Soundblasterx G6 (using 3.5mm to RCA Kabeldirekt), Khadas Tone2, Sennheiser GSX1000 and JDS Atom AK4490 version.

The Drop THX 789 was the only one that I could connect with the GS1000x or Blasterx G6 without getting ground noise at 65% volume in either gain. Tried other cables and USB ports, you name it, the THX handled it no problem with a silent noise floor all the way up. The SMSL SP200 is a clean sound, not sterile like a Topping L30, but not as "fun" and relaxed as the Drop THX by comparison with more depth to the sound stage on both of those. The SP200 is accurate and micro details stand out much more than the Drop THX amps. The best music experience overall was the Drop THX amps with the JDS Atom DAC. For gaming it was a tie between the G6 as DAC and THX 789, but the Khadas Tone2 with 32 ohm MMX300s was super accurate for distance and direction. For music it was nicer than the original tone board I had for almost a year. 

I'd recommend the SP200 as long as you don't plan to use it with a gaming DAC lined out to it, for production work the detail level is great, and that more than makes up for the not-large sound stage effect. The balanced side measures a little less well than the RCA input (someone at ASR did a comparison test, but it was a really small difference). The star of the show with the amp is the sensation of unlimited power for headroom if you equalize a lot. Warning: Cat owners be aware at idle the SP200 runs at 103 degrees F which isn't hot, but it is the ideal cat sleeping temperature... The Drop THX One is the fun one if you don't plan on balanced headphones, the THX 789 full size is if you plan on putting a gaming DAC on it. The SP200 is accurate to the point I have more songs to upgrade since the bad ones now sound like total rubbish, but the good ones sound even better  Also for the SP200 the Topping D10b is a terrific performer, but having fun with the JDS Atom DAC too, both transparent.


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## StarTreker

When you have the unlimited power of this.. 





The cat recognizes it's warming power. And suddenly takes ownership of what you thought was yours





Thankfully, my SP200 is cat free, and living free with it's volume modification.


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## pataburd

Wow!  Check out the "golden knob"!  Is that the SP200 Special Edition?  : )


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## StarTreker

pataburd said:


> Wow!  Check out the "golden knob"!  Is that the SP200 Special Edition?  : )



Thanks! Its StarTreker's S.M.S.L SP200 special edition, and it makes it 20% cooler, while adding potentiometer smoothness.


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## JoeSlovakia

This weekend we (me and my dad) will change the caps on the XLR inputs, also will add coupling WIMA caps. The main problem IMO with the RCA vs XLR are the used caps - RCA is using Nichicon Bi-polar ES Muse, while the XLR is using some cheap,not even audio grade caps. We will change those caps for Nichicon KZ with WIMA coupling caps.


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## StarTreker

JoeSlovakia said:


> This weekend we (me and my dad) will change the caps on the XLR inputs, also will add coupling WIMA caps. The main problem IMO with the RCA vs XLR are the used caps - RCA is using Nichicon Bi-polar ES Muse, while the XLR is using some cheap,not even audio grade caps. We will change those caps for Nichicon KZ with WIMA coupling caps.



For a 300 dollar amp, you'd think they would use audio grade caps at the very least! So glad I use RCA! Lol. 

Please document with pictures, wed love to see. Thanks Joe!


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## JoeSlovakia

I will do so


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## JoeSlovakia (Apr 27, 2022)

StarTreker said:


> For a 300 dollar amp, you'd think they would use audio grade caps at the very least! So glad I use RCA! Lol.
> 
> Please document with pictures, wed love to see. Thanks Joe!


This is the thing about the entry-level gear, that to do it cost effective, they have to cut corners. But not with this type of corner cutting.  Or that is my theory with the lower XLR input performance. I've bought a small, fully balanced dual ESS 9038Q2M DAC and after connecting it to the SP200 via XLR and RCA from my ASUS Xonar Essence STX with swapped op amps it was as close as it could get. Also with the Singxer SA-1 you have the option to bypass the caps to have a slightly better sound performance. So IMO the cap swap should be beneficial and really help the XLR inputs to shine.


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## JoeSlovakia

Ok, so as you can see the cap swap was successful and as @Cableaddict wrote, the holes in the PCB are super small, so we had to work a bit with them. But the replacement was a success and now I am enjoying the sound 🙂


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## StarTreker

JoeSlovakia said:


> Ok, so as you can see the cap swap was successful and as @Cableaddict wrote, the holes in the PCB are super small, so we had to work a bit with them. But the replacement was a success and now I am enjoying the sound 🙂



Excellent work! Do you notice and actual improvement to the sound? Do any sound testing data on the sound quality? 

And does this modification effect the amps ability to output the full 6 watts? Those new caps actually look nice.


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## JoeSlovakia (May 1, 2022)

@StarTreker my dad told me today to burn in for a few hours the amp, as those caps need some time - the first listening experience was (after the swap), that the sound is more agressive, there are more details and there is nothing to hold back the sound. The treble is more energetic, detailed, layered, the bass is cleaner as @Cableaddict wrote, hits harder. Track that I was most excited was Daft Punk - Lose yourself - the beginning with that "sparkling water" or what is that sound before was, that it is okay, but maybe a 5% would improve that sound to be very real - this was exceeded, had goosebumps on some tracks that I listened like 100 times and experienced a bass that hits harder and is cleaner. Everything is cleaner, the sound happens immediately with ease. But also is more fatiguing at the moment because of the details. Also tracks, that sounded good before now sound like ..... Don't know, if there is some compression or the file is degrading or the mastering is $hit, all track tested 24 / 96-192


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## StarTreker

JoeSlovakia said:


> @StarTreker my dad told me today to burn in for a few hours the amp, as those caps need some time - the first listening experience was (after the swap), that the sound is more agressive, there are more details and there is nothing to hold back the sound. The treble is more energetic, detailed, layered, the bass is cleaner as @Cableaddict wrote, hits harder. Track that I was most excited was Daft Punk - Lose yourself - the beginning with that "sparkling water" or what is that sound before was, that it is okay, but maybe a 5% would improve that sound to be very real - this was exceeded, had goosebumps on some tracks that I listened like 100 times and experienced a bass that hits harder and is cleaner. Everything is cleaner, the sound happens immediately with ease. But also is more fatiguing at the moment because of the details. Also tracks, that sounded good before now sound like ..... Don't know, if there is some compression or the file is degrading or the mastering is $hit, all track tested 24 / 96-192



Sounds like considerable improvement! I'm very glad to hear this. SMSL should be doing this. How much did the caps cost you? Cause you figure it would be only that much of an increase in cost, to get better sound.

Of course, DIY like you did requires some skill and a small electronics solder iron. I think it be easier for SMSL to just do it.


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## JoeSlovakia

The 4 Nichicon UKZ caps are now 0,5€ a piece and the WIMA caps are also around that price, so it is around 4-5€ investment. It is maybe by 4€ more than the original caps.


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## rawk0r

I swapped from a JDS Labs EL Stack to the SMSL SP200/M200 stack (because I wanted balanced output). I wonder if the caps vary from unit to unit depending on supply. I am going to open mine up when I get home and see, because I am worried/interested now.


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## StarTreker

rawk0r said:


> I swapped from a JDS Labs EL Stack to the SMSL SP200/M200 stack (because I wanted balanced output). I wonder if the caps vary from unit to unit depending on supply. I am going to open mine up when I get home and see, because I am worried/interested now.



The S.M.S.L SP200 AMP and M200 DAC series are not truly balanced. They have XLR for convenience only. Both XLR and Single Ended, both have the same output power. But these are a powerful series though, they deliver 6 watts per channel into 16 OHMS, and 3 watts per channel into 32 OHMS. And the DAC has a 2-volt RMS line out through single ended output, and 4V RMS through XLR output. As long as your not undervolting the line in to the AMP, your going to be seriously solid. How serious you ask? Well, slap on a pair of base head cannons to your ears, and crank up the volume. Put on Wiz Khalifa On My Level Bass Boosted, and you will literally pop a nut.


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## JoeSlovakia

rawk0r said:


> I swapped from a JDS Labs EL Stack to the SMSL SP200/M200 stack (because I wanted balanced output). I wonder if the caps vary from unit to unit depending on supply. I am going to open mine up when I get home and see, because I am worried/interested now.


I think, that all the SP200 have the same basic caps. They sound okay, but if you want that extra umpf, then go with the cap mod.

I paired my SP200 with a cheap Chinese DAC with swapped op-amps and it is cleaner, the soundstage has more depth and height than my ASUS Xonar Essence STX sound card I was rocking before with only 2V RMS from balanced and single-ended output (dual 9038Q2M)


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## rawk0r

StarTreker said:


> The S.M.S.L SP200 AMP and M200 DAC series are not truly balanced. They have XLR for convenience only. Both XLR and Single Ended, both have the same output power. But these are a powerful series though, they deliver 6 watts per channel into 16 OHMS, and 3 watts per channel into 32 OHMS. And the DAC has a 2-volt RMS line out through single ended output, and 4V RMS through XLR output. As long as your not undervolting the line in to the AMP, your going to be seriously solid. How serious you ask? Well, slap on a pair of base head cannons to your ears, and crank up the volume. Put on Wiz Khalifa On My Level Bass Boosted, and you will literally pop a nut.


So do you mean that even though the input is going into the AMP from two XLR connections, I am not actually receiving balance audio output from the 4pin XLR connection? Or is just the output power you're referring to?


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## rawk0r

JoeSlovakia said:


> I think, that all the SP200 have the same basic caps. They sound okay, but if you want that extra umpf, then go with the cap mod.
> 
> I paired my SP200 with a cheap Chinese DAC with swapped op-amps and it is cleaner, the soundstage has more depth and height than my ASUS Xonar Essence STX sound card I was rocking before with only 2V RMS from balanced and single-ended output (dual 9038Q2M)


Thanks for the info! I haven't had any issues with the sound so far, so I will hold off on modding it until I feel the itch.


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## StarTreker

rawk0r said:


> So do you mean that even though the input is going into the AMP from two XLR connections, I am not actually receiving balance audio output from the 4pin XLR connection? Or is just the output power you're referring to?



Correct, not balanced output. Simply there for convenience. Truth is, times have changed with amps since the old days. There was a time when XLR was w bigger deal. But these modern amps do fine without balanced output now. There's no need to overthink it, just enjoy it.


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## rawk0r

StarTreker said:


> Correct, not balanced output. Simply there for convenience. Truth is, times have changed with amps since the old days. There was a time when XLR was w bigger deal. But these modern amps do fine without balanced output now. There's no need to overthink it, just enjoy it.


Thanks! I don't have a frame of reference quality-wise to frame it against so I will just blaze forth as-is.


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## stuck limo

I am going to probably replace the caps with the aforementioned LKG1E152MESBCK model. Does anyone know of a better (?) volume pot / attenuator replacement for this mod as well?


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## Cableaddict

If you can find them!

When I originally installed mine, I had ordered 12, since I have 6 of these amps for my studio.
Luckily I got 2, but the other ten are STILL on back-order, and now they are saying "probably 2023."

If anyone finds a source for these, and actually in stock, please let us know.


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## stuck limo

Cableaddict said:


> If you can find them!
> 
> When I originally installed mine, I had ordered 12, since I have 6 of these amps for my studio.
> Luckily I got 2, but the other ten are STILL on back-order, and now they are saying "probably 2023."
> ...



Are you referring to the LKG1E152MESBCK? Digikey has them in stock it looks like: 

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/nichicon/LKG1E152MESBCK/7698647


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## Cableaddict

Woah,  that's fantastic!

thanks


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## stuck limo (Aug 13, 2022)

> I did not change the RCA coupling caps, as I have no intention of using those inputs.



Does anyone have any recommendations for new RCA caps? I use those inputs quite often. maybe @Cableaddict knows


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## Cableaddict

JoeSlovakia said:


> This weekend we (me and my dad) will change the caps on the XLR inputs, also will add coupling WIMA caps. The main problem IMO with the RCA vs XLR are the used caps - RCA is using Nichicon Bi-polar ES Muse, while the XLR is using some cheap,not even audio grade caps. We will change those caps for Nichicon KZ with WIMA coupling caps.




Hey Joe,

Do you have the exact part number for those WIMA's?  (and why are there 2 different shapes, with the same uF rating? )

I can't seem to find any 0.1 poly which are that thin, not even WIMAs.
-------------

Also, since I'll be going back into my amps now, I'm considering also adding *~  *15 uf / 25v  film caps to the power supply,  To improve mf transients.
Also   (2)   .1 uF  COG,  to possibly reduce ripple.  (I don't have a scope, so this would just be a shot in the dark.)

Could you ask your Dad if he thinks this is worth trying?  (Assuming they will even fit)


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## Cableaddict

stuck limo said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for new RCA caps? I use those inputs quite often. maybe @Cableaddict knows




PM sent,  but as I wrote there:

*I used Elna  RFS-25V220MF3#5  *
OR maybe up them to 47 uF:    RFS-25V470MG3#5

But again, I heard no difference in the RCA inputs after the change.  (To my surprise.)   And I was quickly A-B ing my modded amp to a stock amp,  with levels perfectly matched via studio test gear, and two identical sounding headphones   YMMV, especially with different headphones, so maybe it's worth a try.

IMO the big change comes from modding the power supply section.


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## stuck limo

Cableaddict said:


> PM sent,  but as I wrote there:
> 
> *I used Elna  RFS-25V220MF3#5  *
> OR maybe up them to 47 uF:    RFS-25V470MG3#5
> ...



So the same caps (6 of them) would be used for the 4 XLR and the 2 RCAs. Is that what I'm getting?


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## Cableaddict

stuck limo said:


> So the same caps (6 of them) would be used for the 4 XLR and the 2 RCAs. Is that what I'm getting?



No

The stock XLR blocking caps are 220 uf  @ 25v    
As reported way back when,  I retrofitted *Elna Silmic II:    RFS-35V221MI6#5 *


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## stuck limo (Aug 14, 2022)

Cableaddict said:


> PM sent,  but as I wrote there:
> 
> *I used Elna  RFS-25V220MF3#5  *
> OR maybe up them to 47 uF:    RFS-25V470MG3#5
> ...



I thought you upgraded the caps for the XLR inputs, not the RCA? The green caps are for the RCA input, correct? (and you left those alone) The other 4 caps you replaced in your picture are for the XLR, correct? And you heard no differences between the stock and upgraded XLR caps. Or am I very confused?

So it sounds like (based on your below post quoted) that the XLR cap upgrade may have actually HURT the XLR sound quality since they now seem closer in sound (after the upgrade) quality to the stock RCA [where before, they had slight differences]. 



> HOWEVER, surprisingly, the XLR inputs seem to have slightly better stereo separation. I THINK. lol...
> I tested this several times over several days, on all sx units, sometimes using different audio sources, and a few times I did not hear it. Very, very strange. I just checked one of my non-modded SP200's before posting this, and I definitely hear the difference today, enough that I'd never consider using the RCA's. - But I wouldn't bet money that this will be the case for everyone.
> 
> Another noticeable change is that the difference between the RCA and XLR inputs is now extremely minor. I probably wouldn't even notice if I weren't listening for it, though there still IS a barely perceptible difference. This really puzzles me, since if anything the XLR inputs should sound even better than before.


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## alphaman

Are you guys talking about INPUT coupling caps? Why not bypass them altogether? I.e just short 'em out?


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## Cableaddict

alphaman said:


> Are you guys talking about INPUT coupling caps? Why not bypass them altogether? I.e just short 'em out?



They block DC voltage,  among other things.


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## Cableaddict

stuck limo said:


> I thought you upgraded the caps for the XLR inputs, not the RCA?



I also did the RCA's after that post.   No difference heard.

YMMV  as it might be source-dependent.


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## Cableaddict (Aug 23, 2022)

Cableaddict said:


> Hey Joe,
> 
> Do you have the exact part number for those WIMA's?  (and why are there 2 different shapes, with the same uF rating? )
> 
> ...



## JOE -

If you see this post,  please get me this info.
I did finally find some thin WIMA 0.1's @ 63v, though they are slightly wider than what you show.  They should work.
Still, isn't 25v enough?   

And what about the other stuff?

thanks !


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## JoeSlovakia (Aug 24, 2022)

Cableaddict said:


> ## JOE -
> 
> If you see this post,  please get me this info.
> I did finally find some thin WIMA 0.1's @ 63v, though they are slightly wider than what you show.  They should work.
> ...


Sorry for not replying sooner  we have used the 63V version, as they were sold here in Slovakia. the reason they are different is, that one has 2,5mm between the terminals and the second one has 5mm.They are the WIMA MKS 02.

As for your other question with the coupling caps on the power supply side - as I wrote before, my dad can't actually test it out and so he said, that if it can't be measured and tested, to see the difference, then what is the point? maybe if he would be like 20 years younger, then he would maybe think about it more, but he has so much stuff to do  either way, you upgraded the 1500uF caps, next thing would be those smd caps after the PS - 470uF 25V..

For me in the future the main goal will be to replace all those caps (470 and 1500 uF).


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## Cableaddict (Aug 24, 2022)

Thanks, Joe!


FWIW,  I can't find any thin poly 0.1's at less than 63v, anyway.   They may not even exist.
The MKS 02 is what I just ordered,  so great to know they will fit.

The other caps I mentioned can be found, but they aren't as small as expected, and very likely won't fit,  so I'm not going to even go there at this point.  After adding the HF caps,  I think I'll call it a day.  (I'm dying to see if they make a discernible difference, on their own.)    The amp sounds just fine already, so ....


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## JoeSlovakia (Aug 25, 2022)

Let us know after the upgrade, if you can hear any difference. For me going from a sound card with single ended output to a balanced DAC made the biggest difference.  Replacing those XLR input caps made the biggest difference in the amp, as you couldn't tell the RCA (with HF caps) and XLR (stock caps) apart. As I wrote and even the measurements on the ASR forum, the XLR had worse measurements than the RCA inputs, as those XLR inputs were muffled. With the upgrade they are crystal clear and you can tell the RCA and XLR apart now.


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## stuck limo

We just installed the new caps and the case is about 1/10" too short for the new caps. https://imgur.com/a/FDsCVlh

I PM'd @Cableaddict about his solution or if he ran into this. Did anyone else run into this issue?


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## Cableaddict (Sep 5, 2022)

stuck limo said:


> We just installed the new caps and the case is about 1/10" too short for the new caps. https://imgur.com/a/FDsCVlh
> 
> I PM'd @Cableaddict about his solution or if he ran into this. Did anyone else run into this issue?



That's odd.  You did yours exactly the same as I did mine,  and mine fit, though just barely.
(nice clean job, BTW)

Maybe different circuit boards are just sligtly different in the layout?

My only suggestion would be to lengthen the leads, andlat the caps in the areas without any circuitry.  (To the far left & right of the original caps.) Since there's nothing metaalic in those areas, you could even sand away a small part of the new caps, where they are the widest.

Or maybe cut 2 slots in the op of the case,  if all else fails.   The sound is worth it.  - Or maybe the top will bwnd  little and still go back on?

Or finally,  just buy some aluminum, raise the sides, and paint it black with Duratex or 2 part epoxy.  (Or get a home anodizing kit.)

I hope I don't have this same problem with any of my other five amps.  -  But if I do, maybe I'll find a solution.


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## Cableaddict

JoeSlovakia said:


> Let us know after the upgrade, if you can hear any difference.



Will do, but it might be a while before I can find the time to do it.  (Maybe a month or so.)


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## Svperstar (Jan 5, 2023)

I used to my SMSL SP200 to compare my Topping D30 vs RME ADI-2

I used two laptops running MusicBee playing the same song, I ran the D30 -> SP200 RCA and then the RME ADI-2 -> SP200 XLR.

The laptops were right next to each other and I pressed play at the same time on both and while the song was playing swapped back and forth between RCA and XLR



End result, I couldn't hear much difference between the Topping and the RME.


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