# SPL Phonitor Impressions Thread



## feifan

I guess I'll be the one to start this thread on the SPL Phonitor model 2730. (Including Auditor model 2910.) From discussions on this amp, I think quite a few of us own or are planning to own it. Please share your serial number, your setup, what you're learning about it, questions & answers, and anything else you feel like.

 My info:

 Serial number: 93002**

 Setup: computer > S/PDIF > DL3 (stock) > Silver Serpent II XLR balanced > Phonitor > HD800

 I'm learning that USB isn't very good, but it may be because of the interconnect, which is an el-cheapo. I'll need to get a Kimber USB cable from HeadRoom.

 This is only my third day with it, but I've already cleared my desk of the rack full of small footprint amps/DACs. I'll still be using my other stuff, but for now, this is it. I'm totally impressed.

 [photos added 8.1.09]
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.p...izmm1y&thumb=5
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.p...nxwonj&thumb=5

 ************************************************** ******
 (Moved here from permalink #106 on 28 Oct. 2009)
*PHONITOR/AUDITOR ROUNDUP*

 01. crypt: SN In the 8[series]
 Setup: iRIVER iHP-140 w/ Rockbox <Optical> Cambridge Azure 840C <XLR> SPL Phonitor ATH-W5000/ER-4S
 Mostly playing FLAC; 840C up-samples to 24bit/384, dither on; Phonitor sets to 75 deg, 4 cross feed, centre -1.2.

 02. ical: 93002** (very close to yours feifan) [SOLD]
 Setup: Oyaide R1 > Clearer Audio Copper-line Alpha > CSE RK-100 > Acrolink 6N-P4030 > Cambridge Azur 740C > Van Den Hul Orchid w/Cardas RCA-XLR > Oyaide Tunami GPX-R > SPL Phonitor > Ultrasone Edition 8 / Sennheiser HD800 / Grado PS1000
 My usual setting based on different recordng:
 Crossfeed} 2/3/4, Speaker Angle} 55/75, Centre} Off/-1.4/-1.2
 I do off the Cros/Spk at times for some live rock concert to maintain the noisy and wide atmosphere.

 03. kidult: 93002** (one digit different from yours feifan)
 Setup: Oyaide R1 > Blacksand Violet Z1 > Cambridge Azur 740C > Valgrind Audio w/Neutrik RCA-XLR adapter > Oyaide Tunami GPX-R > SPL Phonitor > Ultrasone Edition 9
 I still toying with setting, usually the below, depends on recording and preference,
 C-2, S-55, CT- -1.2
 C-4, S-30, CT- -1.2

 04. feifan: #93002**
 Setup: computer > S/PDIF > DL3 (stock) > Silver Serpent II XLR balanced > Phonitor > HD800

 05. EugeneK: Auditor
 Home: PC >> Coaxial S/Pdif >> Lavry DA10 >> SPL Auditor >> HD800 with APS V3 / AKG K340

 06. Dinan: #93002**
 Settings: CF=3, Angle=30*, Center= -0.3
 System: Electrocompaniet ECD1A DAC/MacBook Pro or MBL 1621/1611, TARA Labs Vector Balanced interconnects and Prism Reference AC cords.
 Phones: Grado GS1000 for now.

 07. woodcans: Phonitor
 pc>Berkeley>Phonitor>HD800 rig. I have about 150 hours on it and so far find it incredibly detailed w/ a very natural soundstage. I really like the speaker angle/crossfeed effect . . .

 08. John_H88: #83001xx
 CF 2
 Angle 40
 Center -0.9

 09. SteveM324: Phonitor
 Rega > Saturn Cardas Neutral Reference > Phonitor > HD800, K340
 Improved dynamics and a warmer and more full body sound. Now I'm surprised how well the Phonitor drives my K340.

 10. argentum: Auditor
 Auditor is great sounding amp too. I use this adapter: Neutrik - Audio - Circular Adapters - NA2MPMF

 11. alcyst: Phonitor
 Setup is; Wadia 170 - EMU 0404USB - Phonitor. Headphones are HD800s and ATH-W5000. And its all pretty wonderful.
 I havn't spent time with the crossfeed.

 12. suikodenii: Phonitor
 Stock PS Audio DL3 balanced into the Phonitor and with my 300 Ohm HD800 I have usually set the Phonitor to -40 dB (~8'clock). I have my AG701 in the office unfortunately but when I had them at home I don't think I went beyond 9 o'clock in the above combination. Now people hear different but 1 o'clock sounds really high to me with the DL3 connected via balanced - as the DL3 outputs a really high level that on some CDs even lets the input LED on the Phonitor flash (on which SPL told me by the way not to worry as the input stage of the Phonitor would not be overloaded easily anyway). So actually sometimes I switch the 20 dB switch in order to have a bit more dial.

 13. AmanGeorge: Auditor
 Straight out of the box, the Auditor is extremely transparent, count me impressed at how detailed and uncolored the signal is. The only thing that has surprised me is that the amp is not quite as high gain as I was hoping/expecting - my normal listening levels are between 12 or 1 o'clock on it with my AKG K701. The challenge will be to see how it does with the HE-5, hopefully sometime soon...

 14. MikeLa: Auditor

 15. Sceptre: Phonitor
 This one doesn't have a serial number. It came from Germany and apparently is one of the first three pre production units. Metal 'handles', flashing sig lights etc. Everything about the amp is as expected except for a slight mains hum. I shall play with earth loops over the weekend. Noticeable even with the inputs disconnected. Any better thoughts? This amp really tames the Ed9 and couples well with JH13s too. A birthday present for myself and a real performer. The c/f circuitry will obviously make some purists wince, but the effect and pleasure it brings is magnificent. I'm currently enjoying settings of cf 3, 55 degrees, -0.6 centre. Can this amp melt welding rods too?
 Update 5.18.10: iRiver H140 to Sonosax SX DA-2 DAC using balanced out to Phonitor.

 16. MarkyMark: Auditor, S/N is 9101044
 It's primarily linked to a Benchmark DAC1 via LAT IC-300 Signature XLR interconnects. Btw, I have also used the Cardas RCA to XLR adapters with unbalanced interconnects and find those work excellently. The Auditor sounds best driving the HD800's. It's just "OK" with the K701's (sorry Acix 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). I actually prefer to listen to the K701's from a Heed Canamp in my home office as they have nice synergy. I don't listen much to my Markl D5000's nowadays but I found the bass to be a bit overpowering from the Auditor, albeit very well controlled. The Sugden Headmaster is a better match ime - it drives low impedance loads well and is a bit bass-light. Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 17. omigawsh_lollercoaster: Phonitor
 When I listened SE to both, I listened to Phonitor sometimes and wondered why I even had another amp, but I still liked both. Now I have balanced HP cables for tube listening and it's way better than SE but I still LOVE the Phonitor even on SE.

 18. Markj: Phonitor
 I had hum with Edition9 on my Phonitor also. Spl service check it and said it is design for 600Ohm. With T1 is totaly quiet, with Edition8 it is same as E9 with PRO900 is little better. I even have Furman ballanced power and it does not help. Since then I found that lots of headphone amps are noisy with low OHM headphones. I am looking for best cheap amp for Edition8.

 19. tohenk2: SPL Phonitor nr. 9300339

 20. CaféNoir: SPL Auditor
 I had bought a SPL Auditor which presented some noise, whether the inputs were connected or not. It was not a hum, though, but rather a buzz, which was noticeable at both low volume and high volume, bur strangely desappeared with the volume knob set at around 3 o'clock. It was hardly audible through the hd-650, but very noticeable with lower impedance phones (say, 50ohms). I contacted someone that had the same problem. It turned out it was the same unit (he returned it to Thomann, they resold it, and I bought it back!). He told me that now his new unit is dead quiet. I sent back mine, and I am waiting for a new one, hoping it will be quiet too. I think the assumption we can make is there might be some defective units presenting this buzzing issue. If you have the same symptoms as I described, you probably have a flawed amp. I will tell you more as soon as I receive my new unit.

 21. abyrvalg: Phonitor + Edition 8
  
 22. AppleheadMay: Phonitor 2730B with SN 9310032
 Looks like a beauty to me and with all the switches a real toy for boys! Since it hasn't been burned in yet I won't talk about how it sounds. Anyway I have only heard it for half an hour.
 [Added later:] The effect of the crossfeed settings is really subtle, don't expect anything like what you can accomplish with an equalizer. That's actually a good thing, you can't ruin the sound with it. But I haven't tinkered with it long enough to say more and there is quite a lot of more useful info in this thread and on the forum about the controls.
  
 23. .Sup: Auditor
 Onkyo ND-S1 → CA DacMagic → SPL Auditor/LD MK IV SE → balanced KRK RP10s/5
  
 24. oqvist: Auditor 91010114
 It certainly is huuge... At least 3x a Heed Canamp which also have internal power. headphones see sig plus T1 and soon LCD-2.
  
 25. vvanrij: Phonitor Serial = 8300138
 I still love the phonitor, after I got it I stopped upgrading, finally found what I was looking for. My SPL Phonitor + AKG K1000 are still a dream come true, and will probably stay with me for the rest of my life.
 I love the fact that combined with the k1000 I really really forget I'm listening to headphones after about 10mins. My settings on it are: Crossfeed 3, Speaker Angle 40, Center Level -0,9
  
 26. St3ve: Phonitor (2730B) is SN 9310032
 My source is a Lavry DA11 and my cans are Senn HD800s. Oh, and I tend to set my volume at somewhere between -24 and -19 depending on how loud the music is mastered. I absolutely love it. It really does make my HD800's shine, and the crossfeed system is fantastic. I have only had it just under a week or so, but I have been totally floored by the sound - everything sounds 'just right' to my ears. The crossfeed settings I am using are CF:4, SA: 75 and CL -1.2, and the imaging is superb.
  
 27. Lord Mike: Phonitor SN:9310028
 Mac Mini > DAC202--Furutech FP601/602/FA-220 XLR > SPL Phonitor/Burson OpAmp > HD25
 Had the Phonitor for a year now, but now with the Burson OpAmp transplant, it's really worth writing about. The headphone out from the DAc202 is very good in its own right, but the 'Burnitor' takes the music to another league. Awaiting a pair of LCD-2s...

 28. metalsonata: Phonitor SN 11.2731.00176 (Model 2730b)
 I do suspect that my DAC (HeadRoom Mico DAC) is bottle-necking it somewhat--I wasn't honestly planning on getting a Phonitor, but a deal came up that I couldn't refuse, and I had the cash for it, so I went for it. I'll be upgrading the DAC sometime down the road a ways. Initial impressions are still very positive though--especially the sound-stage and the bass control/detail retrieval.
  
 29. Zombie_X: SPL Auditor
 Man oh man it's really good! Beats my Roc to a pulp and my WA3+ as well. The sound is so smooth and effortless. Really a nice sounding amp.
  
 30. Arctia: Phonitor
 Initial thought with HD800: Imaging is absolutely amazing. Holy grail of monitoring, perhaps? I also played around with the crossfeed, but couldn't find a good configuration with HD800. I feel that HD800 is a brilliant imaging headphone on its own, any attempt to alter the imaging will simply ruin the sound. This is where I found the quality of the crossfeed to be outstanding. Even though I couldn't find a good crossfeed setting (will try more tonight), having crossfeed on did not ruin imaging like all my previous attempts with various crossfeed DSPs. The crossfeed simply works in the background without you realizing.

 31. MuppetFace: Phonitor
 I use the Phonitor with the W5000, and there is a humming as you describe, but it's faint enough to my ears to where it doesn't bother too much, and I'm usually pretty sensitive (read: obsessive) about background noise. I agree that it's a really great combo... surprisingly so.
  
 32. slwiser: "AppleheadMay: Phonitor 2730B with SN 9310032"
 Computer FIles -> Squeezebox Touch -> Lavry DA10 ->  SPL Phonitor
 I am powering my HD-800 with it.   I have to say it has to be the best amp headphone combination I have owned.

 33. Acix: Phonitor
 The transparency level of the Phonitor is the best so far!  My first session was 6-7 hours with no ear fatigue...the Phonitor is definitely a new definition for studio Solid Stage hps amp.
 I find interesting they use almost the same specs of the Auditor and the Phonitor ...and yet the Phonitor use a nine SUPRA OP amps that made and developed by SPL. The same tehnology use in the SPL MMC 1 @ 8K mastering console, and the SPL PQ 2050 mastering edition EQ @ 15K.

 34. daniel_hokkaido: Auditor
  
 35. Jamiee: Phonitor
  
 36. TWIFOSP: Phonitor

 37. Timmyw: Phonitor

 38. madbull: Phonitor --My Phonitor has arrived and is making the LCD-2 really sing. I don't even miss my Orpheus with that combo!! Makes me wanna upgrade to the LCD-3. I'm listening to some Haydn symphonies through Phonitor and HD800 and everything is great, imaging is next to perfection with the Xfeed on. It really feels like I'm the theater, sitting at third row. Really amazing.
  
 39. rxs0: Phonitor
  
 40. Parula: Phonitor
  
 41. dukeskd: Phonitor - the crossfeed really makes the music more realistic in so many ways. I also love to listen to acoustic albums, Jimmy Page - David Coverdale, etc.
  
 42.  teddytejero - Ordered an Auditor and M1 DAC today [11.28.12]!
  
 43. kawee: Phonitor - I tried several different amp but really like how it sounds.  First time, I tried Phonitor and I really feel that sounds out from Phonitor is what I am looking for.  Everything is very clear to me. It is very nice to see this thread and looking forward to understanding how to make use of the crossfeed and Center function.


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## crypt@

SN: In the 8[series]
 Setup: iRIVER iHP-140 w/ Rockbox <Optical> Cambridge Azure 840C <XLR> SPL Phonitor ATH-W5000/ER-4S

 Mostly playing FLAC; 840C up-samples to 24bit/384, dither on; Phonitor sets to 75 deg, 4 cross feed, centre -1.2.

 I no longer feel fatigue after spending much of the working day plugged in, as I do when using SuperMacro IV. I'm rediscovering my 4yrs old ER-4S. Low frequency is now deep and full.

 I have spent some time comparing Lehmann Black Cube Linear with the Phonitor. I find the differentiator is how each resolves classical tracks. With Phonitor music flows effortlessly out and with better image, wider sound stage.


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## feifan

Crypt, do you find that you need to continually futz with the crossfeed, speaker angle, and center level with every change in the lineup or with different kinds of recordings? Or do you leave the settings at a constant? I ask because it's an area I'm still learning about.

 Is there like a general setting that works with all music? Or is it all personal preference.

 My guess is that part of the wow factor for this amp is the way it creates a sound space (as opposed to sound stage) that does amazing things for recordings that we thought we knew well. The complete blackness of the background, the sense of almost infinite air and space around instruments and voices, and instruments that seem to come in from far beyond the normal parameters of 'phones. I'm not sure how much of this is due to the HD800, but I have a feeling the Phonitor plays a key role.

 I'm still very curious about how the Phonitor will sound with the PS1000. I have the GS1K and have been impressed with the mids and highs when used with the Phonitor, but the bass was a disappointment. I'll have to give it another test.


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## crypt@

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Crypt, do you find that you need to continually futz with the crossfeed, speaker angle, and center level with every change in the lineup or with different kinds of recordings? Or do you leave the settings at a constant?_

 

I did for a while. If there are switches to be toggled, they must be toggled! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I have now settled on the settings I posted.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there like a general setting that works with all music? Or is it all personal preference._

 

I initiated a conversation with Paul Lentzen of SPL, as as per the manual, he suggested 30 deg is a good place to start with. Audio is very much a subjective experience, it is difficult to pick a setting for everyone.

 I find in particular these settings affect the presentation in classical, jazz recording more so than others. With chill-out, trip, electronic, hip-hop and the likes it is less prominent and sometimes make no perceivable difference. I guess these recording are not mixed with soundstage, image in mind.


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## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm learning that USB isn't very good, but it may be because of the interconnect, which is an el-cheapo. I'll need to get a Kimber USB cable from HeadRoom._

 

Don't waste your money on the USB cable. It's just not as good an interface as S/PDIF. You're much better off getting a Squeezebox Duet.


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## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crypt@* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did for a while. If there are switches to be toggled, they must be toggled! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I have now settled on the settings I posted._

 

I'll try yours and see how it goes: 75 DEG, 4 XF, 1.2 CL

  Quote:


 I initiated a conversation with Paul Lentzen of SPL, as as per the manual, he suggested 30 deg is a good place to start with. Audio is very much a subjective experience, it is difficult to pick a setting for everyone. 
 

That has to be the best way to get a feel for the amp -- talk with someone from SPL. I started with the manual's suggested 30-3-1.2, didn't seem to hear a huge "difference" so just tried some random settings. I'm realizing that, as many have been saying, the differences are subtle and you really have to listen for them. I tend to hear a big difference at the beginning then don't hear it after a while. But I do notice a significant difference when I switch to one of my other amps. They now seem flat somehow, one dimensional. I never thought I'd say this.

  Quote:


 I find in particular these settings affect the presentation in classical, jazz recording more so than others. With chill-out, trip, electronic, hip-hop and the likes it is less prominent and sometimes make no perceivable difference. I guess these recording are not mixed with soundstage, image in mind. 
 

This is a good rule to remember -- the biggest differences will be found in recordings where soundstage has been a factor in the recording.

 Thanks, Crypt. Saves me a lot of random fumbling.


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## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't waste your money on the USB cable. It's just not as good an interface as S/PDIF. You're much better off getting a Squeezebox Duet._

 

I've been reading posts that mention this, went to the manufacturer's site, but couldn't believe that sound could be reliably transmitted this way. It sounds too good to be true. I always thought hardwire was the best. If SQ remains just as good -- this is THE answer! 

 I seem to be in sync with a lot of what you say so I'll be reading up on it. I'm already thinking of my emerging DL3-SS2-Phonitor-HD800 setup as the "IPodDJ" (DJ=dynamic jam). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks, IPodPJ.


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## crypt@

75 deg & 4 cf (i.e. 60 deg in Phonitor Manual) setting is to simulate a 2 channels setup where the distance between left and right speakers is approximately the same distance as they are from the listener - I.e. 60 deg 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Centre is the hardest to judge, for me -1.2db is closer to a flat stage, but others may like a "concave/convex" lineup.


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## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crypt@* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_75 deg & 4 cf (i.e. 60 deg in Phonitor Manual) setting is to simulate a 2 channels setup where the distance between left and right speakers is approximately the same distance as they are from the listener - I.e. 60 deg 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Centre is the hardest to judge, for me -1.2db is closer to a flat stage, but others may like a "concave/convex" lineup._

 

Thanks for the clarification. I see the 60 deg in the spkr angle result column when the switch is at 75 deg and the cf is at 4. I can see getting interesting results with "concave/convex" settings, but I'd probably settle for the more natural flat. Having this much control over something that's been, up until now, a given is mindblowing. Thanks!


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## ical

Serial number: 93002** (very close to yours feifan)

 Setup: Oyaide R1 > Clearer Audio Copper-line Alpha > CSE RK-100 > Acrolink 6N-P4030 > Cambridge Azur 740C > Van Den Hul Orchid w/Cardas RCA-XLR > Oyaide Tunami GPX-R > SPL Phonitor > Ultrasone Edition 8 / Sennheiser HD800 / Grado PS1000

 My usual setting based on different recordng:
 Crossfeed} 2/3/4, Speaker Angle} 55/75, Centre} Off/-1.4/-1.2

 I do off the Cros/Spk at times for some live rock concert to maintain the noisy and wide atmosphere. 

 What I like most about this amp is it enable me to control the presentation according to my preference without promising quality. Especially for those bad or old recording which I can fine tune to make it sound better. Best of all, it has plenty of power to drive most cans with ease.

 To make this thread more interesting, we should post pic as well. It tells a thousand words. I'll start first then.


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## EugeneK

Does an Auditor count? XD


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## kidult

Serial number: 93002** (one digit different from yours feifan)

 Setup: Oyaide R1 > Blacksand Violet Z1 > Cambridge Azur 740C > Valgrind Audio w/Neutrik RCA-XLR adapter > Oyaide Tunami GPX-R > SPL Phonitor > Ultrasone Edition 9

 I still toying with setting, usually the below, depends on recording and preference, 
 C-2, S-55, CT- -1.2
 C-4, S-30, CT- -1.2

 The fun part is, one can set the soundstage either to front field or back field. just like playing with a real pair of speakers placement. of cus, my headphone will never sound or come close like a real pair of speakers


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## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does an Auditor count? XD_

 

Yes, I should've added the Auditor. It's nearly identical to the Phonitor. A lot of people don't need or want the speaker angle features, and the Auditor/Phonitor's amp, on its own, is justification enough for the purchase. Thanks!


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## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Serial number: 93002** (very close to yours feifan)_

 

Ical, I wonder if I should mask part of my S/N, too. Possible harm from posting it?

  Quote:


 Setup: Oyaide R1 > Clearer Audio Copper-line Alpha > CSE RK-100 > Acrolink 6N-P4030 > Cambridge Azur 740C > Van Den Hul Orchid w/Cardas RCA-XLR > Oyaide Tunami GPX-R > SPL Phonitor > Ultrasone Edition 8 / Sennheiser HD800 / Grado PS1000

 My usual setting based on different recordng:
 Crossfeed} 2/3/4, Speaker Angle} 55/75, Centre} Off/-1.4/-1.2

 I do off the Cros/Spk at times for some live rock concert to maintain the noisy and wide atmosphere. 
 

I'm going to take my time and check out your different setting and read up on your equipment. You have an amazing lineup!

  Quote:


 What I like most about this amp is it enable me to control the presentation according to my preference without promising quality. Especially for those bad or old recording which I can fine tune to make it sound better. Best of all, it has plenty of power to drive most cans with ease. 
 

I'm finding that tweaking the presentation like this makes a qualitative difference. If the recording is good to begin with but not very interesting, tweaking the angles changes the presentation and makes them different, fun. But this takes time and patience. I guess with experience the process will become more natural, easier, like not having to think went moving up and down the gears on a motorcycle.

  Quote:


 To make this thread more interesting, we should post pic as well. It tells a thousand words. I'll start first then. 





 

Good idea. I'll add mine as an edit in the next hour or so. [edit: see the op for links to photos]

 BTW, I'd like to get a PS1000, too -- someday when I can afford it. With the Phonitor, how is it in comparison to the HD800?


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## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kidult* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Serial number: 93002** (one digit different from yours feifan)_

 

Wow, that's cool, Kidult. We must've ordered about the same time. But you're way ahead of me in figuring out the different angle settings.

  Quote:


 Setup: Oyaide R1 > Blacksand Violet Z1 > Cambridge Azur 740C > Valgrind Audio w/Neutrik RCA-XLR adapter > Oyaide Tunami GPX-R > SPL Phonitor > Ultrasone Edition 9

 I still toying with setting, usually the below, depends on recording and preference, 
 C-2, S-55, CT- -1.2
 C-4, S-30, CT- -1.2 
 

That's quite an impressive lineup of equipment! I'll be spending some time reading up on them. I'm not familiar with most of it. I'll also have to try your different settings. I'd like to get my preferences down to two, too, then gradually add more.

  Quote:


 The fun part is, one can set the soundstage either to front field or back field. just like playing with a real pair of speakers placement. of cus, my headphone will never sound or come close like a real pair of speakers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

I'm still startled when I mess with the settings and hear isolated instruments coming from over my shoulder or above me, beyond the 'phone's soundspace so that it sounds as though my computer speakers are behind me and turned on. Times like this, I reflexively turn toward the sound, although I know the computer speakers are above my desk, in front of me, and turned off.

  Quote:







 

Man, I love those equipment stands! What kind of wood? They look like a matching pair.


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## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ical, I wonder if I should mask part of my S/N, too. Possible harm from posting it?

 I'm going to take my time and check out your different setting and read up on your equipment. You have an amazing lineup!

 I'm finding that tweaking the presentation like this makes a qualitative difference. If the recording is good to begin with but not very interesting, tweaking the angles changes the presentation and makes them different, fun. But this takes time and patience. I guess with experience the process will become more natural, easier, like not having to think went moving up and down the gears on a motorcycle.

 Good idea. I'll add mine as an edit in the next hour or so. [edit: see the op for links to photos]

 BTW, I'd like to get a PS1000, too -- someday when I can afford it. With the Phonitor, how is it in comparison to the HD800?_

 

Usually I try not to show in case of any warranty issue. Just to play safe. 

 You're right, after owning it for some time, tweaking the setting has becomes an instant response. Haha! I do feel that I'm a sound engineer! Controlling those like second natural. Don't think I can live with another amp now, having to stick to it's presentation for poor recording. 

 Thanks. Love them very much. Took me some time build this ideal system of mine. Especially the ED8 and PS1000 that comes in very limited numbers here. While HD800 is widely available which I got it as a gift. I'm never a Senn person due to their veil sound but HD800 changes my perception completely. It sound very neutral and transparent with a huge soundstage. Bass is good and well balance without overwhelming. I've yet to encounter those cons that I read about it here. Maybe it matches Phonitor well. 

 As compare to HD800, PS1000 is more dynamic with deeper and stronger bass. It a fun cans that's very enjoyable to listen to. It can takes all kinds of trash and still sound good. However, it still can be as graceful when listening to smooth jazz especially listening to double bass, the sound is to die for! It a big leap from GS1000 which I previously own. I would say HD800 is more formal while PS1000 is a party animal. Both compliment each other. 

 Lastly, ED8 has excellent mid and imaging, tight bass, dark background, wide soundstage. It doesn't sound like a closed cans to me at all! I like this cans best for acoustic. With it, I can hear every single string and note. However, it'll be a problem in getting the right fit if you've a big ears. I believe it's cups are made smaller for better isolation. 

 As you can see, I like all of them. I'll spilt hair to tell which is the best. Each has their advantage and different presentation. None of them will go wrong for me.

 You've a nice system there too. I like the size of your cdp and dac that matches it well! Wish to own the Nagra CDP but the price is a killer.


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## kidult

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, I love those equipment stands! What kind of wood? They look like a matching pair._

 

ar.. the Hi-Fi rack is Guizu (same as ical 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) 
 Natural walnut. 
Audio furniture - Nobility

 the platforms are - 
 Sound Mechanics Qx1 
playStereo Audio Shop | Sound Mechanics Qx1 Mechanical Platform

 Taoc SCB-RS35G - 
 With a compact cast-iron core sandwiched between layers of high density particleboard. 
http://http://www.taoc.gr.jp/taoc/scb_rs.html


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## Soundinista

Congrats, Feifan, on getting the Phonitor! It looks *grand*! How does it mate with your GS1000?


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Usually I try not to show in case of any warranty issue. Just to play safe. 

 You're right, after owning it for some time, tweaking the setting has becomes an instant response. Haha! I do feel that I'm a sound engineer! Controlling those like second natural. Don't think I can live with another amp now, having to stick to it's presentation for poor recording._

 

I have a feeling the Phonitor's flexible soundstaging is the next step for head-fi amping, an expansion on the crossfeed idea. It sets a new standard, and others will probably either develop their own versions or, more than likely, purchase/lease the technology from SPL.

  Quote:


 Thanks. Love them very much. Took me some time build this ideal system of mine. Especially the ED8 and PS1000 that comes in very limited numbers here. While HD800 is widely available which I got it as a gift. I'm never a Senn person due to their veil sound but HD800 changes my perception completely. It sound very neutral and transparent with a huge soundstage. Bass is good and well balance without overwhelming. I've yet to encounter those cons that I read about it here. Maybe it matches Phonitor well. 

 As compare to HD800, PS1000 is more dynamic with deeper and stronger bass. It a fun cans that's very enjoyable to listen to. It can takes all kinds of trash and still sound good. However, it still can be as graceful when listening to smooth jazz especially listening to double bass, the sound is to die for! It a big leap from GS1000 which I previously own. I would say HD800 is more formal while PS1000 is a party animal. Both compliment each other. 
 

I was afraid of that. LOL! So the PS1000 has all the strengths of the GS1K but none of its weaknesses. Do you think Grado's use of the metal casing over the wood makes the difference -- combining the warmth of wood and the rigidity of metal to keep the dynamics intact in roll-offs at both extremes of range?

  Quote:


 Lastly, ED8 has excellent mid and imaging, tight bass, dark background, wide soundstage. It doesn't sound like a closed cans to me at all! I like this cans best for acoustic. With it, I can hear every single string and note. However, it'll be a problem in getting the right fit if you've a big ears. I believe it's cups are made smaller for better isolation. 
 

I have an irrational bias against closed cans so I haven't really looked at any. But if I do, it'll be the ED8. A dumb question: With closed cans, do your ears begin to perspire during long sessions?

  Quote:


 As you can see, I like all of them. I'll spilt hair to tell which is the best. Each has their advantage and different presentation. None of them will go wrong for me. 
 

Yeah, that's about the size of it. In the end, no one setup can meet all our musical needs, i.e., unless we stick to only one genre. If you like rock, R&B, classical, jazz, pop, alternative, folk, whatever, then you're going to end up with a suite of different cans and amps, and they can be roughly divided into analytical and warm. In your case, I think you have the best cans for each: HD800 for analytical and PS1000 for warmth. For analytical amps, I think the Phonitor may be among the best.

  Quote:


 You've a nice system there too. I like the size of your cdp and dac that matches it well! Wish to own the Nagra CDP but the price is a killer. 
 

Thanks. My space is limited so it all has to fit on my desk. The CDP is the Shanling PCD300A, which is inexpensive but has a small footprint and fits my needs. These components are deeper so they take up more space on the right side of my desk. Now I don't know where to place my coffee mug.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kidult* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ar.. the Hi-Fi rack is Guizu (same as ical 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) 
 Natural walnut. 
Audio furniture - Nobility

 the platforms are - 
 Sound Mechanics Qx1 
playStereo Audio Shop | Sound Mechanics Qx1 Mechanical Platform

 Taoc SCB-RS35G - 
 With a compact cast-iron core sandwiched between layers of high density particleboard. 
http://http://www.taoc.gr.jp/taoc/scb_rs.html_

 

Thanks for the links, Kidult. I visited all of them. The URL for the last didn't work somehow, but I found the taoc site using a truncated version of the address. Truly beautiful furniture for audio equipment. Definitely out of my league, though. What little I have for this hobby goes into the basic equipment. Unfortunately, nothing's left for the extras like cabinets and tables. Those pointy feet look great, but they must rest on something to protect the surface underneath. Or do they?

 Are you primarily into head-fi or are you also into full-blown speaker setups? If both, do find that 'phones are better than speakers? Or is it the other way around? Just curious.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Soundinista* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats, Feifan, on getting the Phonitor! It looks *grand*! How does it mate with your GS1000?




_

 

Thanks, Soundinista. The HD800 in this setup has been phenomenal so I haven't done much listening with my other cans. I did some testing with the GS1K, but the results were so-so. The full mids from 250Hz to 4kHz were extraordinarily good, but bass sounded boomy and flabby and the highs, IIRC, one dimensional. This result, though, could have been caused by poor quality recordings. Like the HD800, the Phonitor seems to be unforgiving, revealing weaknesses in tracks that I thought were great. At first, I thought the fault was with the amp, but I'm beginning to realize that the quality of a lot of my favorite recordings really isn't that good. 

 BTW, Ical (see above) is having great results with the PS1K.

 How do you like the GS1Ki?


----------



## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was afraid of that. LOL! So the PS1000 has all the strengths of the GS1K but none of its weaknesses. Do you think Grado's use of the metal casing over the wood makes the difference -- combining the warmth of wood and the rigidity of metal to keep the dynamics intact in roll-offs at both extremes of range?_

 

Yes, you're right. I believe it's hybrid design(metal and wood) play a very important role in the improvement. Most of my audiophile friends who are into hifi actually prefer it over HD800 as they feel that HD800 can sound a little boring due to it's neutral characteristic. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an irrational bias against closed cans so I haven't really looked at any. But if I do, it'll be the ED8. A dumb question: With closed cans, do your ears begin to perspire during long sessions?_

 

You should really listen to ED8, it'll change your perception about closed cans. I've yet to have problem of heat building in the cans thought it can be a little warm for long period of time. But it doesn't really bother. Maybe the air-conditioning in my room does help.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, that's about the size of it. In the end, no one setup can meet all our musical needs, i.e., unless we stick to only one genre. If you like rock, R&B, classical, jazz, pop, alternative, folk, whatever, then you're going to end up with a suite of different cans and amps, and they can be roughly divided into analytical and warm. In your case, I think you have the best cans for each: HD800 for analytical and PS1000 for warmth. For analytical amps, I think the Phonitor may be among the best._

 

That's the reason why I've three cans instead of one. Cos none is perfect. For me, the Phonitor is an ideal amp to match as it's very neutral without adding coloration so characteristic of the cans are maintain in their own way. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. My space is limited so it all has to fit on my desk. The CDP is the Shanling PCD300A, which is inexpensive but has a small footprint and fits my needs. These components are deeper so they take up more space on the right side of my desk. Now I don't know where to place my coffee mug._

 

You need a proper audio rack to make space for your mug.


----------



## feifan

Thanks, Ical. If I get the chance, I'll listen to the Ed8. But the looks don't appeal to me. Too blocky? Closed? Dunno. But if it sounds great, it'll probably begin to look good, too.

 I'm definitely interested in the PS1000, but my guess is that I won't like it as much as the HD800 precisely because I prefer the more analytical, neutral sound. I don't mind coloration and look for it at times, but crystal clear resolution gets to me every time.

 Right now, the cost of these two is prohibitive so I'll just have to stand back for a while. But even if I suddenly had some funds, I'm not sure if I'd go in the PS1000 or Ed8 direction. Now that I have the HD800, I'm interested in seeing what else is coming down the pike in terms of SS amps. I'm also going to stick with SE. I don't think we're anywhere close to the end of improvements and innovations in SE design, and this is where mainstream developers seem to be focusing their efforts. 

 The coming months and years should be exciting now that the "new generation" 'phones and amps are beginning to emerge. Probably the most important thing any headfire can do is stash some bucks in anticipation of the new stuff that'll be appearing in a heady stream from this point on.

 Re a shelf: I'll be hunting for a small shelf that will accommodate the Phonitor and related equipment: roughly 12"W x 18"H x 16"L with shelves about 7"H. I want the back to be completely open and the sides to be somewhat open, too. This is actually an odd sized shelf that might look weird if not exactly right.


----------



## EugeneK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I should've added the Auditor. It's nearly identical to the Phonitor. A lot of people don't need or want the speaker angle features, and the Auditor/Phonitor's amp, on its own, is justification enough for the purchase. Thanks!_

 

Hehe. ^.^ Yup! I didn't want to pay twice as much for the crossfeed function. I kinda like the soundstage you get from no crossfeed anyway.


----------



## argentum

Could anybody with HD650 tell me how good it is with Phonitor/Auditor? I can money wise buy Auditor. I also plan to upgrade my DAC - Meier Audio StageDAC which will have new and reportedly fancy Jan Meier crossfeed feature I hope I'll be better off with this combo.


----------



## kidult

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the links, Kidult. I visited all of them. The URL for the last didn't work somehow, but I found the taoc site using a truncated version of the address. Truly beautiful furniture for audio equipment. Definitely out of my league, though. What little I have for this hobby goes into the basic equipment. Unfortunately, nothing's left for the extras like cabinets and tables. Those pointy feet look great, but they must rest on something to protect the surface underneath. Or do they?

 Are you primarily into head-fi or are you also into full-blown speaker setups? If both, do find that 'phones are better than speakers? Or is it the other way around? Just curious._

 


 Oh, try this, 
TAOC | Sibatech, inc. High-quality Audio Equipment from Japan

 those underneath plates are idea to use with pointy feet (spikes). they are effective in reducing and controlling vibrations as well as to prevent damage to your rack/furniture. 

 I started with speaker setup. For some reasons, I have to give up speakers and compromise on phones….


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *argentum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could anybody with HD650 tell me how good it is with Phonitor/Auditor? I can money wise buy Auditor. I also plan to upgrade my DAC - Meier Audio StageDAC which will have new and reportedly fancy Jan Meier crossfeed feature I hope I'll be better off with this combo._

 

Hi, Argentum. I've tested the Phonitor with all my cans, and the Senns (HD800 and HD650) synergize best. I really like the 650 with the Phonitor, and I'm currently using this lineup for this quick test:

 CDP > coax > DL3 > XLR bal > Phonitor > Cardas > HD650

 The 650 veil disappears, and the clarity and resolution is amazing. It's only when I compare it to the 800 that I sense a slight darkness. The darkness comes across as a smaller soundstage, but to put this in perspective, the 800's soundstage is HUGE. The smaller soundstage also makes the 650 more intimate, warmer. 

 I usually listen with computer as transport and the Phonitor+800 reveals the poor quality of about half of my favorite recordings. The Phonitor+650 is much more forgiving and the poor recordings sound fine.

 The Phonitor+650 is very natural and easy to listen to for very long periods of time. The Phonitor has given me a new appreciation for the 650 as a dynamic and warm 'phone.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe. ^.^ Yup! I didn't want to pay twice as much for the crossfeed function. I kinda like the soundstage you get from no crossfeed anyway._

 

EugeneK, there's nothing shabby about the Auditor's audio specs. Here they are in comparison to the Phonitor's:

 Auditor:
 Frequency Response: ‹5 Hz to ›200 kHz (-3 dB)
 CMR:-80 dBu (@1 kHz, 0 dBu input level and unity gain)
 Crosstalk: -84 dB (@1kHz)
 THD: 0,001 % (@ 1kHz, 0 dBu input level and unity gain)
 Noise: -97 dBu (A-weighted)
 Dynamic Range: 129 dB (@ 600 Ohms Impedance)

 Phonitor:
 Frequency Response: ‹10Hz to ›200kHz (-3dB)
 CMR:-80dBu (@1kHz, 0dBu input level and unity gain)
 Crosstalk: -67dB (@1kHz)
 THD: 0,005% (@ 1kHz, 0dBu input level and unity gain)
 Noise: -97dBu (A-weighted)
 Dynamic Range: 129,5dB (@ 600 Ohms Impedance)


----------



## argentum

Good to hear that. What about your K701 and GS1000? My current amp has actually pretty good synergy with Senns too, but with K501 it sounds OK-ish , but nothing spectacular. I want to try decent solid state amp and it should spec wise have the power output that my AKG needs.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kidult* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, try this, 
TAOC | Sibatech, inc. High-quality Audio Equipment from Japan

 those underneath plates are idea to use with pointy feet (spikes). they are effective in reducing and controlling vibrations as well as to prevent damage to your rack/furniture. 

 I started with speaker setup. For some reasons, I have to give up speakers and compromise on phones…._

 

kidult, thanks! This link works great. I noticed the plates under the spikes in your setup. I see what you mean by the special construction of the boards. I had no idea audiophile furniture had come this far. It's almost as high-tech as audio components!

 Re having to give up speakers -- is this why you went for the Phonitor? To get some of SQ control that speakers gave you? 

 Aside from cheap computer speakers, I've never gotten into speakers. I enjoy headphones a lot and feel as though I'm getting into my music in ways that live performances can't match.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *argentum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear that. What about your K701 and GS1000? My current amp has actually pretty good synergy with Senns too, but with K501 it sounds OK-ish , but nothing spectacular. I want to try decent solid state amp and it should spec wise have the power output that my AKG needs._

 

The Phonitor with the K701 and GS1K sounds great, too, but the lineup has to be right. In the configuration described above, both cans are excellent. However, when I compare them to the HD800, I find the major difference is in the bass. If I didn't compare it to the HD800, I wouldn't know anything was wrong. 

 I use Brian Bromberg's "Cantaloupe Island" (Downright Upright, Artistry Music, 2.20.07) to test sub bass and bass, roughly 40-250 Hz, and with the HD800 I can clearly hear the bass strings vibrating. With the GS1K and K701, I hear the bass sounds but not the actual string vibes.

 Also, the GS1K colors the bass, and the initial impression is that it may be better than the 800 in this range. But on closer listening, it's clear that it's coloration.


----------



## 71877

YouTube - Musikmesse 2009: AndrÃ© Inderfurth Ã¼ber den SPL Phonitor und SPL Auditor (http://www.96kHz.de)

 Shame its in German, but the HD quality makes up for it


----------



## EugeneK

DA10 got here today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just waiting on the Auditor now!

 And yeah, I read those specs. I know that the circuits are shared between the auditor and the phonitor.


----------



## ical

We actually have a mini meet at my place few weeks ago, day after I got my HD800. A nice review which was posted in other forum from a fellow friend, Kchew . It will give you an ideal on this amp. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by * kchew* 
_Many thanks Cal, for letting me try them all today. ;D All were driven by an SPL Phonitor with Cambridge Audio Azur 740c as the source.

 First one I tried: the *Ultrasone Edition 8*.

 It was a bit fiddly, I had to remove my glasses as the cups were small. I also didn't get a very good seal on the right cup, so I could only get enough bass when I turned to face right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very fast, bass was not as powerful as the Edition 9, which is better for me. Not exactly my cup of tea though, especially since it doesn't like my head shape. But I did prefer it over the Edition 9.

 Next up, *Sennheiser HD800*.

 Woah, comfy! Probably the most comfortable I've tried yet. It really envelopes your ears with no excess pressure anywhere. Detractors call the HD800 bland, soulless, unengaging; I call it the reverse. Maybe it's the Phonitor, maybe it's all the insane tweaks applied by Cal, maybe it's the sound signature I was looking for all along, but I instantly connected with this beautiful German. Taut and accurate bass, sweet engaging mids, extended treble and expansive soundstage, my AD2000 was left weeping in one corner except for one detail (I'll cover that later). No specific area calls attention to itself, it somehow combines neutrality with a natural sense of musicality. It sounds REAL.

 After that, the *Grado PS-1000* steps right up.

 Rock on! Bass hits hard and hits fast without tainting the midrange. Don't headbang too hard though, it is a heavy beast and might slip off your head. The bass combined with the natural midrange and sparkly treble make it the best among the wallet-busting trinity for rock, metal, anything high in energy really. Not as natural as the HD800, but it makes you want to groove along to the beat.Those looking for emotion, musicality and enjoyment over neutrality must try this hunk of a headphone.

 Next was to try the Phonitor with some other cans...

 Like the rare *Grado RS-1 Vintage S*.

 Now I know why people turn to the RS-1 for rock. Super upfront and lush mids and solid bass make for an irresistable headbobbing experience. Someone mentioned that the AD2000 was as if the singer was right in front of you, for the RS-1 Vintage S it was like she's on your lap whispering sweet things in your ear. I just couldn't believe how much more forward a headphone could be in the midrange. Definitely a keeper.

 What about my *Audio Technica AD2000*?

 Left crying in one corner after trying out the Crème de Crème. However, the Phonitor brought out the best in the midrange, sweeter and more forward than my Stello HP100. I still prefer it for female vocals, even over an RS-1 or HD800. The neutral Phonitor may not be the best match for the AD2000 considering the Audio Technica's light bass.

 But what about the 30 year old *AKG K240 Sextett*?

 Monitoring amp + vintage monitoring headphone strut their stuff with aplomb. Tight, impactful bass combined with lush mids and natural treble make it a very musical jack-of-all-trades if you don't mind the small soundstage. Like the RS-1 Vintage S, someones Old is Gold. The Phonitor did not stumble when confronted with this 600 ohm granddaddy, but in the words of someone else who tried the pairing with the volume knob at 10 o'clock: "wow, so soft!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He had to cranked it up to 1 o'clock.

 Once again, many thanks Cal. I told myself my next major upgrade would be in two years time, but this visit may just hasten the upgrade process..._


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gundogan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shame its [YOUTUBE video] in German, but the HD quality makes up for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, Gundogan. Is the speaker saying nice things about the Phonitor/Auditor? Or is he just introducing it? German is so close to English that I feel as though I can almost understand what he's saying.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DA10 got here today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just waiting on the Auditor now!

 And yeah, I read those specs. I know that the circuits are shared between the auditor and the phonitor._

 

The DA10 is a beauty! I can see you've planned your purchase well. For the price of a Phonitor, you've got a first-rate DAC and the Auditor! Smart move.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We actually have a mini meet at my place few weeks ago, day after I got my HD800. A nice review which was posted in other forum from a fellow friend, Kchew . It will give you an ideal on this amp._

 

Please thank your friend Kchew for the review. It's excellent! He seems to be confirming a lot of what we've been saying and thinking re the HD800 and the PS1000: One's more analytical, and the other, more musical -- but they both have enough of each that they're standouts.

 I've got the now infamous HF-2 on order and can't wait to try it out with the Phonitor. I'm not expecting PS1K performance, but I'm hoping it'll be better than the GS1K.

 Thanks, Ical, for sharing the review. An eye-opener!


----------



## 71877

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Gundogan. Is the speaker saying nice things about the Phonitor/Auditor? Or is he just introducing it? German is so close to English that I feel as though I can almost understand what he's saying._

 

Think it mainly talks about what the amps (well, the phonitor for the most part ofc) can do and how it helps with monitoring using headphones vs. reallife speaker experience.

 The phonitor looks like the next step in headpphone amplification indeed. Instead just being an excellent amp, it introduces all this cool stuff on it to enchance the headphone experience to the next level.

 And with a price of under 1500 euro (~2100$), it doesnt seem to be a bad deal. And its easy to get/cheaper in the EU, while most other highend amps are all outside (which means hefty shipping cost + customs).

 And the auditor is 'only' ~600 euro, which seems nice too for just the amp part of the phonitor.

 Edit: http://www.soundperformancelab.com/index.php?id=430&L=1 whats this


----------



## kidult

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Re having to give up speakers -- is this why you went for the Phonitor? To get some of SQ control that speakers gave you?_

 

haha...yap, I like it neutral and transparent sound and the SQ control. Now saving up for a new can


----------



## fhuang

it's good to know it sound good with k701 but how does it sound with other akgs such as k501 or even older akgs? i don't expect this to sound good with k340 though


----------



## EugeneK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DA10 is a beauty! I can see you've planned your purchase well. For the price of a Phonitor, you've got a first-rate DAC and the Auditor! Smart move._

 

Actually, I spent less on my setup than a phonitor, the DA10 is used so I got a pretty hefty discount, and it's only 4 months old.

 I don't know why they are chaging so much for the phonitor (or so little for the auditor)..... I mean, it's just crossfeed, which you can do for free with a winamp plugin. /shrug.

 Of course the phonitor is way prettier than the auditor. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The auditor looks like a box with a huge knob attached to it, the little needle displays and knobs on the phonitor add so much character to it.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gundogan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Think it mainly talks about what the amps (well, the phonitor for the most part ofc) can do and how it helps with monitoring using headphones vs. reallife speaker experience.

 The phonitor looks like the next step in headpphone amplification indeed. Instead just being an excellent amp, it introduces all this cool stuff on it to enchance the headphone experience to the next level.

 And with a price of under 1500 euro (~2100$), it doesnt seem to be a bad deal. And its easy to get/cheaper in the EU, while most other highend amps are all outside (which means hefty shipping cost + customs).

 And the auditor is 'only' ~600 euro, which seems nice too for just the amp part of the phonitor._

 

Gundogan, thanks for the translation and the info on EU pricing. Head-fiers in Europe are fortunate that so many of the top 'phone and equipment companies are over there. The Auditor price sounds really good!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kidult* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_haha...yap, I like it neutral and transparent sound and the SQ control. Now saving up for a new can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm like you -- I prefer neutral/transparent. Which cans are you looking at? Seems like a lot of really good ones have popped up recently. The cost is a bummer, though.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's good to know it sound good with k701 but how does it sound with other akgs such as k501 or even older akgs? i don't expect this to sound good with k340 though_

 

Hi, fhuang. I'm not sure about the other AKGs. From what I'm experiencing, the Phonitor can probably sound good with a lot of different cans, but you have to futz with different equipment lineups and hard/soft adjustments. The best test, though, is to actually audition it with your cans or get a review based on your setup. But don't rule out the K340 until you've tested it with the Phonitor or Auditor.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, I spent less on my setup than a phonitor, the DA10 is used so I got a pretty hefty discount, and it's only 4 months old.

 I don't know why they are chaging so much for the phonitor (or so little for the auditor)..... I mean, it's just crossfeed, which you can do for free with a winamp plugin. /shrug.

 Of course the phonitor is way prettier than the auditor. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The auditor looks like a box with a huge knob attached to it, the little needle displays and knobs on the phonitor add so much character to it._

 

You lucked out on the DA10! Almost new at a discount can't be beat. You won't see it come up often -- if ever.

 Re the Phonitor's angling features: I think it might be more than crossfeed. But this feature is only important if your listening is enhanced by it or if you're re-engineering recordings and trying to achieve a different sound.

 I like the looks of the Phonitor, but I also like the simplicity of the Auditor. They both appeal in different ways.


----------



## kidult

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm like you -- I prefer neutral/transparent. Which cans are you looking at? Seems like a lot of really good ones have popped up recently. The cost is a bummer, though._

 

I heard PS1000, HD800 & ED8 on Phonitor. to my decent ears, i much prefer 1) HD800 2) PS1000 3) ED8 pairing. while HF-2 is coming anytime next 2 months (I hope). i'll decide after received the HF-2. either PS1000 or HD800.
 or maybe none haha...


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kidult* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I heard PS1000, HD800 & ED8 on Phonitor. to my decent ears, i much prefer 1) HD800 2) PS1000 3) ED8 pairing. while HF-2 is coming anytime next 2 months (I hope). i'll decide after received the HF-2. either PS1000 or HD800.
 or maybe none haha..._

 

Right now, I'm satisfied with the HD800 and don't feel an urge to get anything else. But I am still curious about the PS1000.

 Looks like we have similar tastes. I ordered the HF-2, too. I thought it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to own a piece of 'phone history. My only Grado experience is the GS1K, and I've been reading so much about the other Grados that I jumped at this opportunity. The price was right, and the reviews seem very positive. My gut feeling is that I'm really going to like it.

 I'm finding that that both the HD800 and Phonitor are actually very easy -- easy to match-up with other equipment. Of course, when the lineup is wrong, the sound is crappy, but you almost have to work at getting it wrong. So I expect the HF-2 to sound great with the Phonitor.

 Mine is due in late August, and I've got my fingers crossed that the wait won't be longer than that.

 Re purchasing either, both, or none -- you're actually better off if you can hold off for a while. The longer you can wait, the better. The reason is that other 'phones are probably going to appear and, in all likelihood, they'll be better if not different. If you still want the HD800 or the PS1000, the prices by then should be a lot lower. Keep your options open, if you can.


----------



## ical

Try PS1000 only when you're ready or you'll have many sleepless night.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try PS1000 only when you're ready or you'll have many sleepless night.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh, you're a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, Ical. Tempting. Tempting.


----------



## EugeneK

OH wow, the Auditor drives my AKG K340 really well too - and I was going to build a speaker amp for it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the K340 sounds better than the HD800 for classical - violins are just magical.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OH wow, the Auditor drives my AKG K340 really well too - and I was going to build a speaker amp for it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and the K340 sounds better than the HD800 for classical - violins are just magical._

 

Wow! I've been using a cheap Sony in-ear 'phone and am looking for a good replacement. And if it synergizes with the Phonitor, all the better. How is this with acoustic guitars? Bass guitars?


----------



## EugeneK

Oh, I'm not talking about the AKG K340 in ear, it's the old out of production electrostat-dynamic hybrid.

 And they're terrribly difficult cans to drive. Lets say if my listening volume for the HD800 is 9 o'clock on the auditor, the AKG K340 would be at 1 o'clock.


----------



## dukja

Hi,

 I am looking into either Auditor or GS-1 for home use. My current setup DA100 + GCHA make me pretty happy at office. What I am looking for is clarity, details, tight focus, and wide soundstage. I would appreciate your experience of Auditor (or Phonitor without considering its unique feature) on those aspects. It would be even better if you can compare it with GS-1. The plan would be use either Meier Corda's StageDAC (to make up some soundstage manipulating feature of Phonitor) or PS DL III as the source.

 Another question is what the good place (with good price) would be to buy Auditor in US?

 Many thanks!!


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, I'm not talking about the AKG K340 in ear, it's the old out of production electrostat-dynamic hybrid.

 And they're terrribly difficult cans to drive. Lets say if my listening volume for the HD800 is 9 o'clock on the auditor, the AKG K340 would be at 1 o'clock._

 

I just googled it. First time I've ever heard of it. Just read up on it in wikiphonia. How would you describe the difference between the HD800 and the K340 when it comes to classical? I'd imagine a bit more warmth because it's closed. I never had interest in vintage cans, but this may be one to look out for. Thanks for the tip, Eugene.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 I am looking into either Auditor or GS-1 for home use. My current setup DA100 + GCHA make me pretty happy at office. What I am looking for is clarity, details, tight focus, and wide soundstage. I would appreciate your experience of Auditor (or Phonitor without considering its unique feature) on those aspects._

 

Hi, Dukja. I've only experienced the Phonitor with the crossfeed, speaker angles, and center levels turned on so it's difficult for me to comment. In the next day or two, I'll try to run a test with all of these turned off and post a comment. Ideally, someone with an Auditor will respond.

  Quote:


 It would be even better if you can compare it with GS-1. The plan would be use either Meier Corda's StageDAC (to make up some soundstage manipulating feature of Phonitor) or PS DL III as the source. 
 

I've never heard the GS-1 or the StageDac so I can't comment. The source for my Phonitor is a stock DL3. This combo works for me and my music.

  Quote:


 Another question is what the good place (with good price) would be to buy Auditor in US?

 Many thanks!! 
 

I got my Phonitor from AudioLot for the best price I could find at the time. I don't see the Auditor on their site. You could check with them.

 Sorry I can't answer a lot of your questions. Perhaps someone else will be able to.


----------



## EugeneK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just googled it. First time I've ever heard of it. Just read up on it in wikiphonia. How would you describe the difference between the HD800 and the K340 when it comes to classical? I'd imagine a bit more warmth because it's closed. I never had interest in vintage cans, but this may be one to look out for. Thanks for the tip, Eugene.



_

 

The K340 is not a closed can. It's open, there's a huge hole in the case behind the piece that says "electrostatic-dynamic systems". The mids are more present in the K340 and the highs are delicious. There is less bass impact in the K340, which I like for classical anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So it's actually less warm than the HD800.


----------



## dukja

feifan:

 Thanks a lot for your reply. I would be very interested in your experience of Phonitor with all those soundstage features off. Hopefully, some kind auditor owner would reply, too.

 Once again, I would appreciate your comments on the C/D/F/S aspect.

 And I am glad to hear that stock DL3 works well for you. Its new lower price make it quite competitive.


----------



## fhuang

feifan, yea i was saying that k340 also. i'm thinking getting the phonitor for some other akgs, not the k340 because k340 is not easy on amp. i'm still searching for an amp though...


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The K340 is not a closed can. It's open, there's a huge hole in the case behind the piece that says "electrostatic-dynamic systems". The mids are more present in the K340 and the highs are delicious. There is less bass impact in the K340, which I like for classical anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So it's actually less warm than the HD800._

 

Oh, yeah! I see the tiny holes. I guess the back is less solid than it looks. So you like a bit of emphasis in the mids, away from the flat, for classical? I usually think of amps as "fast" or "slow," but would you say the K340 is faster than the HD800 in the highs?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_feifan:

 Thanks a lot for your reply. I would be very interested in your experience of Phonitor with all those soundstage features off. Hopefully, some kind auditor owner would reply, too.

 Once again, I would appreciate your comments on the C/D/F/S aspect.

 And I am glad to hear that stock DL3 works well for you. Its new lower price make it quite competitive._

 

You're welcome, Dukja. Yeah, I was blown away by the lower price. It's an excellent DAC! It has a couple of really nice features on the front, as well as a lot of input options. I'll try to run a brief test of the Phonitor (minus the special features) in the next few days.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_feifan, yea i was saying that k340 also. i'm thinking getting the phonitor for some other akgs, not the k340 because k340 is not easy on amp. i'm still searching for an amp though..._

 

Fhuang, you've heard (own?) the K340, too? It seems to be well known. If 'phones can remain popular over a long period of time, then they're classics, and it looks as though the K340 is a classic -- which means they'll probably never come up for sale. 

 Before you decide on an amp, try to see if you can spend some time with a Phonitor (or Auditor), perhaps at your local audio store. Take your favorite cans and CDs with you to test it out. It's worth a serious look. Are you into a wide range of music or primarily one genre?


----------



## MrOutside

right here. to r10, l3000g, 880/600.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrOutside* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_right here. to r10, l3000g, 880/600._

 

MrOutside, I'm trying to figure out what your message says. Are you saying that you have Phonitor connected to these 'phones:
 Sony MDR-R10
 Audio Technica ATH L3000G
 Beyerdynamic DT-880 (600 Ohms)

 If yes, then I'd like to hear your opinions about the synergy that you get with each, with the Phonitor. The first two are rare and high-end so I'm especially curious about those. Thanks.


----------



## SteveM324

Eugene,
 I'm glad to hear that the K340 matches up well with the Auditor. I'm going to be trying the HD800 (got mine last week), Edition 9, HD650, and K340 with the Phonitor when it arrives. I should be getting my Phonitor in about 1-1/2 weeks.


----------



## EugeneK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SteveM324* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eugene,
 I'm glad to hear that the K340 matches up well with the Auditor. I'm going to be trying the HD800 (got mine last week), Edition 9, HD650, and K340 with the Phonitor when it arrives. I should be getting my Phonitor in about 1-1/2 weeks._

 

Urgh - Don't trust that delivery estimate. SPL has been running out of phonitors and auditors lately. They shipped mine out a week after their initial estimate - delaying the estimate day by day. -.-

 i.e. 

 Asked on friday: "it'll ship out monday"
 Asked on monday: "it'll ship out tuesday"
 Asked on tesday: "it'll ship out wednesday" ..... you get the picture.

 I got annoyed enough of their answer on wednesday that I threatened to pull my order. -.-


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 I am looking into either Auditor or GS-1 for home use. My current setup DA100 + GCHA make me pretty happy at office. What I am looking for is clarity, details, tight focus, and wide soundstage. I would appreciate your experience of Auditor (or Phonitor without considering its unique feature) on those aspects. It would be even better if you can compare it with GS-1. The plan would be use either Meier Corda's StageDAC (to make up some soundstage manipulating feature of Phonitor) or PS DL III as the source.

 Another question is what the good place (with good price) would be to buy Auditor in US?

 Many thanks!!_

 

Dukja, I turned off the CF/Spkr and Center switches on the Phonitor and have been listening for the past couple of hours to my favorite test tracks. Transport is computer, WAV files, optical in to the source, Digital Link III (stock). With the HD800, there was no drop-off in SQ that I could detect. 

 I see the K702 and HD600 in your signature. I don't have these cans, but I have the 701 and 650. With the K701, I experienced the same sort of "bleaching" that I had earlier with the special features switched on. The HD650 is amazing. It doesn't sound like the 650. No veil, no darkness -- except in comparison to the HD800. Otherwise, "clarity, details, tight focus, and wide soundstage" are superb.

 I could listen to this HD650 lineup for hours with absolutely no problems.

 Conclusion re the Phonitor with special CF/Spkr/Center features turned off: The SQ remains extremely high. IF this configuration effectively turns the Phonitor into an Auditor, then the Auditor is an extremely good buy. 

 Caveat: I don't know if you'd get the same results with the Auditor. I'm not assuming that the Phonitor and Auditor are exact equals -- except for the special features. I've never heard the Auditor so I can't really say. Also, my equipment lineup with upgraded power cables and interconnects might have an impact. Finally, my cans are not the same as yours, and I've never heard the K702 and HD600.


----------



## jojo_b2

I don't own either the Auditor or the Phonitor.

 But I did get a chance to try both from a shop. It wasn't really burned in yet my estimate it was just used 20+ hours that time. I had my RS1 that time as well as Cal's ED8 and PS1000.

 IMO both have a different presentation even when all the special crossfeed and angle features are off. The Auditor sounded warmer with a lusher body than the Phonitor. The Phonitor even with the settings all turned off was more into details and soundstage.

 If I sum it up on my personal findings the auditor has a more musical presentation. I can describe it as having a thinge of the tube like sound and the presentation is on a more personal feel. It was also more forgiving than its brother the Phonitor. The Phonitor on the other hand has an insane soundstage. The details were fantastic. You can easily separate voices and instruments even when using the RS1. But the phonitor sounded colder than the Auditor and will surely put a bad recording in its place.

 On a personal note I would have also bought a phonitor myself. Because it was a real upgrade to my Yamamoto in terms of that big soundstage and scary details. the Auditor was just a sidestep or even a halfstep better than my Yama when I tried it out. But I have a long standing craving to get my self a RSA amp or else I would have bought a Phonitor myself.

 I think Kidult should chime in as he actually bought a Auditor and actually had the set exchanged for a Phonitor. =)

 As for the impressions with the three new BIG cans. I believe Kchew summed it up for us. I was also present at the mini-meet at Cal's place. =)


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojo_b2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't own either the Auditor or the Phonitor.

 But I did get a chance to try both from a shop. It wasn't really burned in yet my estimate it was just used 20+ hours that time. I had my RS1 that time as well as Cal's ED8 and PS1000.

 IMO both have a different presentation even when all the special crossfeed and angle features are off. The Auditor sounded warmer with a lusher body than the Phonitor. The Phonitor even with the settings all turned off was more into details and soundstage.

 If I sum it up on my personal findings the auditor has a more musical presentation. I can describe it as having a thinge of the tube like sound and the presentation is on a more personal feel. It was also more forgiving than its brother the Phonitor. The Phonitor on the other hand has an insane soundstage. The details were fantastic. You can easily separate voices and instruments even when using the RS1. But the phonitor sounded colder than the Auditor and will surely put a bad recording in its place._

 

jojo_b2, thanks. Your mini-review of the two SPL amps really clears the air! I thought they'd be more similar than different so I'm glad for the clarification. This really underscores the fact that the Phonitor is a serious studio tool that appeals to audiophiles who want accuracy as well as increased control.

  Quote:


 On a personal note I would have also bought a phonitor myself. Because it was a real upgrade to my Yamamoto in terms of that big soundstage and scary details. the Auditor was just a sidestep or even a halfstep better than my Yama when I tried it out. But I have a long standing craving to get my self a RSA amp or else I would have bought a Phonitor myself. 
 

I like your description: "that big soundstage and scary details"! Definitely scary when you hear how bad some of your favorite recordings really are.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 After hearing the Phonitor's soundstage, everything else suddenly feels a bit darker, smaller.

 So you're into tubes? Is the B-52 what you're aiming at? With a price tag over $5K, it's definitely out of my league. Going balanced would also mean a lot of additional 'phone costs, too. 

 Which Yama do you have? They're all so beautiful. They look like works of art that also happen to be amps.

 I notice head-fiers either love tubes or SS, and nearly everyone falls on one side or the other. I'm definitely SS. Tubes just seem too organic, fragile, complex. I like things cut and dried. Simple.

  Quote:


 I think Kidult should chime in as he actually bought a Auditor and actually had the set exchanged for a Phonitor. =) 
 

I didn't know that about Kidult. I hope he'll let us know about the differences he hears.

  Quote:


 As for the impressions with the three new BIG cans. I believe Kchew summed it up for us. I was also present at the mini-meet at Cal's place. =) 
 

Kchew's mini-review is excellent! Cal sure has some heavy hitters: I don't think many own both the HD800 and PS1000. (And that's just 2 of the many other cans and equipment!) As he says, he has all his bases covered.

 Be sure to devote one of your meets to the Phonitor! And follow up with reviews in Head-Fi!!!


----------



## jojo_b2

Thanks for the kind words. I have the Yamamoto HA-02 headphone amp. it is really beautiful aesthetically the red dye wood finish will always give you a sense of royalty. It sounds good too on most low impendance cans. But i have just sold mine off so as cal and Kidult. Lol! =)

 The B52 is also too expensive for my Blood. If I bought that I would literally not EAT anything for a span of one-two months. Lol! I have been inlove with RSA amps since I got my predator a while back. So I have been contemplating on an APACHE. Which I hope arrives in the next few weeks. =)

 I believe we will have a larger (not so big crowd though) mee when everyone settles in with their rigs. in the span of two months. Most of our rigs have change a lot. Lol! Cal and Kidult should have a lot of things to share by that time. =)


----------



## dukja

feifan:

 I appreciate a lot of your kind report of Phonitor with SQ control off. My favorite cans are still DT880 and K702 with my current setup and thanks to your comparison between K701 & HD650.

 And jojo_b2's report came just in time (otherwise, an Auditor probably already on its way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). It is certain a heads-up for me since most of report claims that they are almost identical (except additional SQ control circuit). I guess that there is free (or cheaper) meal in the end. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It would be interesting if someone can confirm the comparison between Auditor and Phonitor.

 jojo_b2:

 Please do update us when you got Apache, especially compare with your brief experience with Phonitor or Auditor. I am also interested in HR-2 and hopefully same trait will run through the family (even with huge price difference...).


----------



## kidult

I had Yamamoto HA-02, Auditor & later changed to Phonitor.. 
 I too try out this two amps in shop and have the same initial impression as jojo_b2. 
 Auditor being musical and warmer, Phonitor colder, wider soundstage and details.

 I only had the Auditor for 3days (got it from another friend). 
 Yama was much musical & involving, Auditor was better dynamics and better micro details than Yama. 
 It just changed of sound signature from tube to ss and a halfstep better than Yama. 

 When we have the meet at ical’s place to try out his Phonitor and 3 flagship cans as well as my ED9. 
 I changed my impression on Phonitor. Next day, I brought down the Auditor to shop and bought the Phonitor home.


----------



## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojo_b2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I sum it up on my personal findings the auditor has a more musical presentation. I can describe it as having a thinge of the tube like sound and the presentation is on a more personal feel. It was also more forgiving than its brother the Phonitor. The Phonitor on the other hand has an insane soundstage. The details were fantastic. You can easily separate voices and instruments even when using the RS1. But the phonitor sounded colder than the Auditor and will surely put a bad recording in its place._

 

Most of us actually have the same impression as Jojo after comparing them again. Auditor is an excellent amp thought it sound too warm to my liking. It may not be as tubey as a tube amp. but it'll good for those looking looking in between tube and solidstate. As Jojo mentioned, it more forgiving, which make it very easy to match.

 I prefer a amp that is transparent without coloration that compliment my source. Like a amp with gain and nothing else. That's when the Phonitor came into the picture.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojo_b2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the kind words. I have the Yamamoto HA-02 headphone amp. it is really beautiful aesthetically the red dye wood finish will always give you a sense of royalty. It sounds good too on most low impendance cans. But i have just sold mine off so as cal and Kidult. Lol! =)

 The B52 is also too expensive for my Blood. If I bought that I would literally not EAT anything for a span of one-two months. Lol! I have been inlove with RSA amps since I got my predator a while back. So I have been contemplating on an APACHE. Which I hope arrives in the next few weeks. =)

 I believe we will have a larger (not so big crowd though) mee when everyone settles in with their rigs. in the span of two months. Most of our rigs have change a lot. Lol! Cal and Kidult should have a lot of things to share by that time. =)_

 

Of all the Yamas, I like the HA-02 best. The design, overall look and feel are classic.

 LOL! Once you get into this hobby, food becomes secondary! Doesn't matter what we eat as long as we have great gear!

 The Apache at $3K is still a healthy hunk of change, but it's gorgeous! I like the sleek looks. Are you going for the black or silver? Fully balanced. We gotta see your review on how it plays out with the balanced HD800. How it compares to the Phonitor. Definitely a different kind of amp so I don't see them competing.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_feifan:

 I appreciate a lot of your kind report of Phonitor with SQ control off. My favorite cans are still DT880 and K702 with my current setup and thanks to your comparison between K701 & HD650._

 

You're welcome, dukja.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jojo_b2:

 Please do update us when you got Apache, especially compare with your brief experience with Phonitor or Auditor. I am also interested in HR-2 and hopefully same trait will run through the family (even with huge price difference...)._

 

x2!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kidult* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had Yamamoto HA-02, Auditor & later changed to Phonitor. I too try out this two amps in shop and have the same initial impression as jojo_b2. Auditor being musical and warmer, Phonitor colder, wider soundstage and details.

 I only had the Auditor for 3days (got it from another friend). Yama was much musical & involving, Auditor was better dynamics and better micro details than Yama. It just changed of sound signature from tube to ss and a halfstep better than Yama. 

 When we have the meet at ical’s place to try out his Phonitor and 3 flagship cans as well as my ED9. I changed my impression on Phonitor. Next day, I brought down the Auditor to shop and bought the Phonitor home._

 

Kidult, thanks for this mini-review. Sorry, I forgot that you mentioned some of these points in earlier posts. The only tube amp I've heard (and own) is the LDII++. I really like its warmth, and it creates great SQ right out of the 1/8" speaker out on my computer soundcard, but the heat is too intense. It's clearly not in the same league as the HA-02, but I'm wondering if the Yama is just as hot. Are all tubes "too hot to handle"?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most of us actually have the same impression as Jojo after comparing them again. Auditor is an excellent amp thought it sound too warm to my liking. It may not be as tubey as a tube amp. but it'll good for those looking looking in between tube and solidstate. As Jojo mentioned, it more forgiving, which make it very easy to match.

 I prefer a amp that is transparent without coloration that compliment my source. Like a amp with gain and nothing else. That's when the Phonitor came into the picture._

 

Yeah, it's strange that amps that are so similar spec-wise are so different in SQ. Now I'm curious to hear the Auditor for myself. But I'm like you -- I prefer clarity, transparency.

 Thanks for the clarification, Cal.


----------



## bizkid

Huh? Are you guys sure you listened to the same Auditor i did? If anything it has a slightly wider soundstage as the phonitor (no wonder since it measures a hefty 20dB better in crosstalk), instrument seperation was also a tad better compared to the phonitor. Besides that it has exactly the same feats as the phonitor, its just as transparent so any "warm" coloration would have been introduced by the source.

 Are you sure you had the phonitor and auditor on the same source when comparing? If you've looked inside both it does feature the same parts, same psu, same circuit and this is also what SPL says. Doesnt make any sense that the auditor sounds warmer (it doesnt to my ears).


----------



## dukja

This is interesting report!! (and what I would like to hear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Anyhow, would those who have heard Audio and Phonitor be kind enough to detail a little bit the comparing scenario (source, headphone, are they the same? for how long?)

 It is also interesting to read the spec of both (certainly spec often has little thing to do with SQ). I can understand difference due to reduction of the additional parts for soundstage control and that should translate to some difference in sound. However, such reduction seems to be contributing to better "base" of SQ. This may be just my wishful thinking, but not unreasonable...


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bizkid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Huh? Are you guys sure you listened to the same Auditor i did? If anything it has a slightly wider soundstage as the phonitor (no wonder since it measures a hefty 20dB better in crosstalk), instrument seperation was also a tad better compared to the phonitor. Besides that it has exactly the same feats as the phonitor, its just as transparent so any "warm" coloration would have been introduced by the source.

 Are you sure you had the phonitor and auditor on the same source when comparing? If you've looked inside both it does feature the same parts, same psu, same circuit and this is also what SPL says. Doesnt make any sense that the auditor sounds warmer (it doesnt to my ears)._


----------



## EugeneK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bizkid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Huh? Are you guys sure you listened to the same Auditor i did? If anything it has a slightly wider soundstage as the phonitor (no wonder since it measures a hefty 20dB better in crosstalk), instrument seperation was also a tad better compared to the phonitor. Besides that it has exactly the same feats as the phonitor, its just as transparent so any "warm" coloration would have been introduced by the source.

 Are you sure you had the phonitor and auditor on the same source when comparing? If you've looked inside both it does feature the same parts, same psu, same circuit and this is also what SPL says. Doesnt make any sense that the auditor sounds warmer (it doesnt to my ears)._

 

I've only heard the phonitor for a 10 minute audition, but I own an auditor. I personally do not think the Auditor adds any coloration to my DA10 - the output of the headphone jack on the auditor and the DA10 sound similar to me with the HD800. So unless the phonitor is a cooler amp, I don't see how the auditor is warm either.


----------



## jojo_b2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've only heard the phonitor for a 10 minute audition, but I own an auditor. I personally do not think the Auditor adds any coloration to my DA10 - the output of the headphone jack on the auditor and the DA10 sound similar to me with the HD800. So unless the phonitor is a cooler amp, I don't see how the auditor is warm either._

 

I am a bit confused. I hope that I understood this right, You compared the DA10 and the Auditor? I haven't personally tried a DA10 to compare it with either SPL amps.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is interesting report!! (and what I would like to hear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Anyhow, would those who have heard Audio and Phonitor be kind enough to detail a little bit the comparing scenario (source, headphone, are they the same? for how long?)

 It is also interesting to read the spec of both (certainly spec often has little thing to do with SQ). I can understand difference due to reduction of the additional parts for soundstage control and that should translate to some difference in sound. However, such reduction seems to be contributing to better "base" of SQ. This may be just my wishful thinking, but not unreasonable..._

 

Source was a CEC CD all Interconnects (mapleshade) and power cords (van den hul) the same. I usually audition 3 tracks from two CDS which I listen to most often. I was using my RS1.

 I just like to thank Aaron, the owner of Stereo Electronics which retail the SPL headphone amps here in SG for letting us crash his place. =)

 I should have taken a picture a while ago. I was listening to the new WADIA 381 CDP that Stereo Electronics (a headphone shop in SG) is now using for DEMO connected to the Phonitor using a Grado PS1 from the shop. I still have the same personal findings.

 Please read original post I did state both were burned in on the 20 hour mark and it was based on my personal findings after our weekly gathering. I also stated I don't own either one but I have access to try again when I like.


----------



## ical

We usually gather at Stereo Electronics once a week to catch up and have dinner. I've lost count how many times we have audition them ever since it arrived. No one, but about seven of us all have the same impression including Kidult who spent the longest time with both at his comfort of his home. My impression still remain the same every time I listen to them. We're also very surprised to hear the difference. Previously, I did thought of getting the Auditor which save me about 50% since SPL stated that parts use is almost the same. However, they turned out so different. Hearing Phonitor do make me believe that SPL has price it double of Auditor for a reason other than the tuning and fancy faceplate.


----------



## EugeneK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojo_b2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am a bit confused. I hope that I understood this right, You compared the DA10 and the Auditor? I haven't personally tried a DA10 to compare it with either SPL amps._

 

Nope. you got it wrong.

 I'm using a Lavry DA10 as a source. It's got its own headphone jack which a super annoying digital volume control.

 I'm saying my source's headphone output actually sounds similar to the auditor's headphone output.

 So {Lavry DA10 > Auditor > HD800} sounds exactly like {Lavry DA10 > HD800}

 i.e. I think the Auditor is as transparent and neutral as it gets.


----------



## ical

I honestly doubt that DA10 out alone will sound like Auditor. Auditor is a power amp that will enhance and improve your source further. In this case, either the DA10 is very good that doesn't require a amp or Auditor is bad which I don't think it the case. I'll see if I can loan a DA10/11 to compare. 

 Thought both belong to neutral characteristic, it might be because Phonitor is more transparent which makes Auditor sound slightly warmer. For soundstage, Phonitor is for sure way bigger even at default. 

 Audio can never be based on spec only. For me, it more of a reference. No equipment can measure the quality of sound. Some components can look very bad on paper, yet sound great. Audio is still a black art, just take cables as an example. I always let my ears be the judge since sound is subjective. And compare it with my friends that have the same preference for another view. That's also the fun part about this hobby to share and exchange.


----------



## kanex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So {Lavry DA10 > Auditor > HD800} sounds exactly like {Lavry DA10 > HD800}
 i.e. I think the Auditor is as transparent and neutral as it gets._

 

Hi EugeneK, that's very interesting. May I know what kind of music did you use for the comparison?

 And by "exactly like", do you mean the warm/cool characteristic, or that DA10 is already driving HD800 so well such that an extra amplifier is not really necessary?

 Personally I find DA10 to be very sensitive to the quality of AC power. And with a clean balanced power supply like ps audio power plant, the result is quite impressive.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thought both belong to neutral characteristic, it might be because Phonitor is more transparent which makes Auditor sound slightly warmer. For soundstage, Phonitor is for sure way bigger even at default._

 

Cal, this is my guess, too, as to why there's a difference in perception. In fact, I think this "relativity" principle explains a LOT of the differences in how we on Head-Fi perceive SQ. When we move away from the extremes toward the large gray area in the middle, our sense of what we hear is dependent on contrast, for example cool water begins to feel warm when we contrast it to really cold water. The same may be true for amps. We don't realize an amp is warm until we hear one that's even more neutral.


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cal, this is my guess, too, as to why there's a difference in perception. In fact, I think this "relativity" principle explains a LOT of the differences in how we on Head-Fi perceive SQ. When we move away from the extremes toward the large gray area in the middle, our sense of what we hear is dependent on contrast, for example cool water begins to feel warm when we contrast it to really cold water. The same may be true for amps. We don't realize an amp is warm until we hear one that's even more neutral._

 

True, but you don't have an absolute reference, so you'll never be able to tell if an amp is warm or cold, just that it is warmer or colder than the other amp...
 So it could very well be that your amp is neutral and the other amp is cold.
 No way to tell.


----------



## EugeneK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kanex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi EugeneK, that's very interesting. May I know what kind of music did you use for the comparison?

 And by "exactly like", do you mean the warm/cool characteristic, or that DA10 is already driving HD800 so well such that an extra amplifier is not really necessary?

 Personally I find DA10 to be very sensitive to the quality of AC power. And with a clean balanced power supply like ps audio power plant, the result is quite impressive._

 

I'm using "The ice hotel" first track of "Breakfast on the morning tram" by stacey kent. 

 I just mean the warmness/coolness of the sound. I do get a bit more detail out of the auditor. 

 But from reading the posts after yours. I guess if we're splitting hairs, then I'd have to say if I had to bet, the Auditor falls on the cool side of the headphone output, though it's really hard for me to tell. The DA10 was designed to have a neutral amp built in as well.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True, but you don't have an absolute reference, so you'll never be able to tell if an amp is warm or cold, just that it is warmer or colder than the other amp...
 So it could very well be that your amp is neutral and the other amp is cold.
 No way to tell._

 

True. And when you add other variables such as the quality of the recording or at least the intent of the arranger, engineer, etc., then you up the probability of error.

 I guess we always return to the question of what, exactly, we mean by "neutral." For me, it means "natural," or the ability to accurately reveal and present the recording as intended by the producers. It adds no emphasis, coloring, or veil. It takes nothing away, and it adds nothing. It provides a clear view into the recording, with little or no distortion. It provides a completely "sterile" medium for the translation of the music so we, the listener, hear it in its intended form.

 Using this definition and assuming good quality recordings, I think most of us can distinguish between altered and unaltered sound -- the altered being "warmer" and the unaltered being "cooler" or more neutral. But, and this is my point, we don't know the "direction" -- warmer or cooler -- of the SQ until we do a comparison. 

 Marshall McLuhan used the terms "hot" and "cool" to describe the way we interact with media. And his distinction seems to be applicable in defining warm and cool in audiophilia, too. The cooler SQ tends to make us work harder at our listening, demanding more attention. The warmer is more relaxing and less demanding. Thus, the first is considered more "analytical," and the other more entertaining or musical.

 So, returning to the Phonitor vs. Auditor comparison, my guess is that we don't realize how much less neutral the Auditor is until we compare it to the Phonitor. In other words, in contrast to the Phonitor, the Auditor sounds warmer. But if you haven't heard the Phonitor, you might think it's neutral in comparison to other amps you've heard.

 I'm not sure if this is making any sense.


----------



## EugeneK

I think the point Kees is trying to make is this:

 He's trying to say that the auditor and phonitor are both so neutral sounding and close, it is impossible to tell which one is truly neutral.

 Lets suppose X is true neutral, + is the auditor and = is the phonitor

 It might be:
 warm--------------X--------------cool
 -----------------+=-------------------

 or it might be:
 warm--------------X--------------cool
 -------------------+=-----------------

 it might even be:
 warm--------------X--------------cool
 ------------------+-=-----------------

 And we should not assume the more expensive one is the neutral one. All we can say for certain is that the auditor is slightly warmer than the phonitor and that they are both neutral sounding. It is impossible to say that the phonitor is neutral and that the auditor is slightly warm.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the point Kees is trying to make is this:

 He's trying to say that the auditor and phonitor are both so neutral sounding and close, it is impossible to tell which one is truly neutral.

 Lets suppose X is true neutral, + is the auditor and = is the phonitor

 It might be:
 warm--------------X--------------cool
 -----------------+=-------------------

 or it might be:
 warm--------------X--------------cool
 -------------------+=-----------------

 it might even be:
 warm--------------X--------------cool
 ------------------+-=-----------------

 And we should not assume the more expensive one is the neutral one. All we can say for certain is that the auditor is slightly warmer than the phonitor and that they are both neutral sounding. It is impossible to say that the phonitor is neutral and that the auditor is slightly warm._

 

Eugene, this is a cool way to graphically present the problem. Helps to clarify the issue.

 First, I'm not disagreeing with you or Kees. In fact, I agree with both of you re an absolute standard (true neutral). My point was not about the absolute, but the actual data (or observations). Using your graphics, I'm referring to the line with the plus and minus signs. 

 In all three, the Auditor (+) is depicted as warmer. Regardless of where they both are in relationship to the true neutral. Thus, yes, they may both be warm or cool, but our ears can determine which of the two is warmer or cooler.

 Re the Auditor and Phonitor, my guess is that they're both cool in relationship to true neutral, but the Phonitor is cooler -- thus making the Auditor, by comparison, warmer.


----------



## Kees

One thing's for sure: it's almost impossible to say something about it without confusing somebody.


----------



## EugeneK

I thought I was pretty clear!


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I thought I was pretty clear!_

 

Yes you were.
 But still people could easily make more of what you said than you actually meant to say.

 What confuses me a bit is that the Phonitor has (to my ears) none of the characteristics of a warm amp. None. No lows hanging over the midrange, no smeared midrange, no rolled off highs. 
 It also has none of the characteristics of a cold amp: No exagerated highs, no super fast decay, no leanness that suggests more detail and space.
 So what does that leave it to be? Neutral? Maybe, but there are other things that can make it coloured: detail, tonality, balance, dynamics...


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing's for sure: it's almost impossible to say something about it without confusing somebody. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL! Including myself. I just reread what I posted earlier and can't understand a word of it. So much for trying to make sense out this insanity that's my hobby.


----------



## EugeneK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL! Including myself. I just reread what I posted earlier and can't understand a word of it. So much for trying to make sense out this insanity that's my hobby. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't understand it either, maybe you should re-write it. >.<


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But still people could easily make more of what you said than you actually meant to say._

 

I should hope so. If "people" are breathing and thinking, they do exactly that. They don't simply decode. They process the information they receive. And because language is, by nature, imprecise, fuzzy, and messy, communication is full of unintended effects. This is why we have discussions to confirm or correct our perceptions and interpretations.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't understand it either, maybe you should re-write it. >.<_

 

OK. If only to make it clearer for myself. 

 It's kinda like two cars racing along a straight stretch of unfamiliar country road late on a moonless night with no lights except the headlights. There are no other cars. One car is behind the other. Beyond the beams of their headlights, everything is pitch black. They have no sense of how far along the road they are, but they're still aware of who's ahead and who's behind.

 One of the cars is the Phonitor, and the other, the Auditor. The drivers can tell which is ahead and which is behind, regardless of where they are in reference to the true midpoint of the road.

 In other words, ahead or behind are relative terms determined by the positions of the cars to one another. 

 Applying this analogy to a comparison of the SPL amps, we can say that one appears to be cooler than the other -- regardless of where the "true neutral" is.

 I'm not sure if this is any clearer, but I hope it is.


----------



## Rossini

I think I read earlier in the thread about success with the SPL Phonitor and the Denon D5000s. Has anyone tried an (auditor) with the Denon D2000s?

 I'm quite interested in the SPL Auditor (as I also have the AKG701s). One concern I have is that I've just been breaking in a Beresford Caiman DAC (with RCA out). Since the Auditor only has XLR in, I presume I'm looking at a bit of a problem? There doesn't seem to be too many cable options and it may not be a good idea anyway. Should I sell the Beresford or find a cable solution?


----------



## ical

You can just use the cheap and good Neutrik XLR-RCA adapter. Most of the guys I know are using it without any problem or degrade in SQ. One of my friend actually find that the adapter with his RCA interconnects sound better than his XLR. 
Neutrik - Audio - Circular Adapters - NA2MPMF

 If you want something more exotic, can go for those from Cardas. Presently I'm using it which sound slightly more dynamic with darker background. 
Cardas Audio

 Based on my past experience with D7000/5000, I believe SPL amp has no problem driving the Denon well.


----------



## EugeneK

I've tried the auditor with a D2000 and a DA10 - it's way too dark for me. But there's no problems with clarity and detail.


----------



## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rossini* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One concern I have is that I've just been breaking in a Beresford Caiman DAC (with RCA out). Since the Auditor only has XLR in, I presume I'm looking at a bit of a problem? There doesn't seem to be too many cable options and it may not be a good idea anyway. Should I sell the Beresford or find a cable solution?_

 

You can just use an RCA-XLR cable. They are readily available.


----------



## Rossini

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can just use the cheap and good Neutrik XLR-RCA adapter. Most of the guys I know are using it without any problem or degrade in SQ. One of my friend actually find that the adapter with his RCA interconnects sound better than his XLR. 
Neutrik - Audio - Circular Adapters - NA2MPMF

 If you want something more exotic, can go for those from Cardas. Presently I'm using it which sound slightly more dynamic with darker background. 
Cardas Audio

 Based on my past experience with D7000/5000, I believe SPL amp has no problem driving the Denon well._

 

Thanks for the info on the cables. That's reassuring.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've tried the auditor with a D2000 and a DA10 - it's way too dark for me. But there's no problems with clarity and detail._

 

That's interesting. I can't imagine it being much darker than with the Canamp. I thought the Auditor was supposed to relatively neutral-sounding?


----------



## EugeneK

Well, my hearing is a little bass-sensitive. 

 In order from cold to warm, my previous setups are:
 Heed Canamp + K340 
 Heed Canamp + K701
 Auditor + K340 (mids a little bloated - but neutral otherwise)
 Auditor + HD800 (tad warm)
 Heed Canamp + HD800
 Heed Canamp + modded HD650
 Sony A729 + AKG K272 (closed phones)
 Autitor + D2000 (way too warm)

 The D2000s are a really warm pair of headphones. Would have been warmer if I had paired it with a warmer amp.

 edit: ok, I know it looks like the Heed is a cooler amp, but it is actually warmer than the auditor.


----------



## Rossini

Thanks Eugene... Did you ever try the Heed Canamp with the D2000? I'd be interested in comparing it to the Auditor + D2000 experience you've described. Even an estimation would help me create a reference point in my own head.


----------



## EugeneK

Nope, I never had them both at the same time, it would probably be warmer than the auditor + D2000 combination.


----------



## Rossini

That's what I figured. So the auditor would be an improvement, at least for me. Tighter and more refined. I know there are other options like the Slee SRG and the RX03 but that's for another thread. Cheers again.


----------



## Acix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, my hearing is a little bass-sensitive. 

 In order from cold to warm, my previous setups are:
 Heed Canamp + K340 
 Heed Canamp + K701
 Auditor + K340 (mids a little bloated - but neutral otherwise)
 Auditor + HD800 (tad warm)
 Heed Canamp + modded HD650
 Sony A729 + AKG K272 (closed phones)
 Autitor + D2000 (way too warm)

 The D2000s are a really warm pair of headphones. Would have been warmer if I had paired it with a warmer amp._

 


 Do you prefer the 701 with the Heed Canamp, and not with the Autitor?


----------



## EugeneK

Sadly, I sold my K701 before the auditor got here, so i'll never know. >.<


----------



## Dinan

Phonitor #93002** here. 

 Settings: CF=3, Angle=30*, Center= -0.3

 System: Electrocompaniet ECD1A DAC/MacBook Pro or MBL 1621/1611, TARA Labs Vector Balanced interconnects and Prism Reference AC cords. 

 Phones: Grado GS1000 for now.

 I love the flexibility of the unit and find the center settings to make the biggest difference. With the GS1000, the more center you dial in (lower number), the better they sound. 

 The GS1000 are temporary while I wait on PS1000, HD800, and Edition 8s. I plan to keep the pair or two that works best with the Phonitor and sell the rest. 

 As I am a high-end audio guy just getting into headphones, I like that the Phonitor makes cans sound more like a good stereo rig. 

 I have my suspicions that the HD800s will respond the best to the Phonitor for soundstage but that the PS1000 will be the most musical. I also expect to be impressed by the Edition 8s but think the Grados will beat them....we will see. 

 It is frustrating how difficult it is to get top end headphone gear quickly.


----------



## Acix

Dinan, maybe you can try the K701/2 too. I was very, very impress by this combo.


----------



## EugeneK

I always thought the K701 goes better with a warmish amp, and the phonitor isn't that.


----------



## slackman

Hello Eugene.
 I'm really curious how much the Auditor differs from the DA10 headphone out for the HD800.
 You mentioned before they're both neutral amps (Auditor perhaps very slightly colder?) and that the Auditor is a bit more detailed.
 Do you mean a tiny bit more detailed or quite a bit more detailed? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And are there other differences between the 2 soundquality wise?


----------



## EugeneK

The Auditor is a tiny bit more detailed and slightly cooler. 

 I really haven't done a detailed comparison, because the DA10's amp is really difficult to use - that toggle switch is just annoying as hell.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Phonitor #93002** here. 

 Settings: CF=3, Angle=30*, Center= -0.3

 System: Electrocompaniet ECD1A DAC/MacBook Pro or MBL 1621/1611, TARA Labs Vector Balanced interconnects and Prism Reference AC cords. 

 Phones: Grado GS1000 for now.

 I love the flexibility of the unit and find the center settings to make the biggest difference. With the GS1000, the more center you dial in (lower number), the better they sound. 

 The GS1000 are temporary while I wait on PS1000, HD800, and Edition 8s. I plan to keep the pair or two that works best with the Phonitor and sell the rest. 

 As I am a high-end audio guy just getting into headphones, I like that the Phonitor makes cans sound more like a good stereo rig. 

 I have my suspicions that the HD800s will respond the best to the Phonitor for soundstage but that the PS1000 will be the most musical. I also expect to be impressed by the Edition 8s but think the Grados will beat them....we will see. 

 It is frustrating how difficult it is to get top end headphone gear quickly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the SN and settings, Dinan. I gave up early on the GS1K and Phonitor but am now curious to try it again. I'm not familiar with Macs. Are you using coaxial or optical out of the Mac? I'll have to wait for replacement bagels to get here. The originals are crumbling and unusable.

 That's an impressive set of cans you're waiting to test. Cal has the same set and, IIRC, he's planning to keep all three for different SQs. I'm not sure if he still feels the same way. I'm really interested in hearing your impressions, especially about the PS1K. And how it compares to the GS1K and HD800.


----------



## ical

feifan, I still keeping the 3 for now. Ever thought of letting one go but all of them just sound so good in different presentation that's it impossible for me to choose. 

 Yes, you're right Dinan. The waiting time for those cans is painfully. I never have such problem with hifi. But I can ensure you that they're worth the wait.


----------



## feifan

*THE ROLL CALL HAS BEEN MOVED TO THE OPENING POST FOR GREATER VISIBILITY*

PHONITOR/AUDITOR ROUNDUP

 01. crypt: SN In the 8[series]
 Setup: iRIVER iHP-140 w/ Rockbox <Optical> Cambridge Azure 840C <XLR> SPL Phonitor ATH-W5000/ER-4S
 Mostly playing FLAC; 840C up-samples to 24bit/384, dither on; Phonitor sets to 75 deg, 4 cross feed, centre -1.2.

 02. ical: 93002** (very close to yours feifan)
 Setup: Oyaide R1 > Clearer Audio Copper-line Alpha > CSE RK-100 > Acrolink 6N-P4030 > Cambridge Azur 740C > Van Den Hul Orchid w/Cardas RCA-XLR > Oyaide Tunami GPX-R > SPL Phonitor > Ultrasone Edition 8 / Sennheiser HD800 / Grado PS1000
 My usual setting based on different recordng:
 Crossfeed} 2/3/4, Speaker Angle} 55/75, Centre} Off/-1.4/-1.2
 I do off the Cros/Spk at times for some live rock concert to maintain the noisy and wide atmosphere. 

 03. kidult: 93002** (one digit different from yours feifan)
 Setup: Oyaide R1 > Blacksand Violet Z1 > Cambridge Azur 740C > Valgrind Audio w/Neutrik RCA-XLR adapter > Oyaide Tunami GPX-R > SPL Phonitor > Ultrasone Edition 9
 I still toying with setting, usually the below, depends on recording and preference,
 C-2, S-55, CT- -1.2
 C-4, S-30, CT- -1.2

 04. feifan: #93002**
 Setup: computer > S/PDIF > DL3 (stock) > Silver Serpent II XLR balanced > Phonitor > HD800

 05. EugeneK: Auditor
 Home: PC >> Coaxial S/Pdif >> Lavry DA10 >> SPL Auditor >> HD800 with APS V3 / AKG K340

 06. Dinan: #93002**
 Settings: CF=3, Angle=30*, Center= -0.3
 System: Electrocompaniet ECD1A DAC/MacBook Pro or MBL 1621/1611, TARA Labs Vector Balanced interconnects and Prism Reference AC cords.
 Phones: Grado GS1000 for now.

 07. woodcans:
 pc>Berkeley>Phonitor>HD800 rig. I have about 150 hours on it and so far find it incredibly detailed w/ a very natural soundstage. I really like the speaker angle/crossfeed effect . . .


----------



## Dinan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Are you using coaxial or optical out of the Mac? I'll have to wait for replacement bagels to get here. The originals are crumbling and unusable.

 That's an impressive set of cans you're waiting to test. Cal has the same set and, IIRC, he's planning to keep all three for different SQs. I'm not sure if he still feels the same way. I'm really interested in hearing your impressions, especially about the PS1K. And how it compares to the GS1K and HD800._

 

most Macs (and I just learned this) have a mini optical output embedded in the 1/8" audio plug. What you need is a mini to standard size toslink adaptor and a good toslink cable (ideal is one with a glass fiber instead of standard plastic fiber). 

 Yes, it will be interesting to hear the difference and worth the trouble I think. 

 The GS1K sound very good but I think it will get lots better with the others.


----------



## slackman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Auditor is a tiny bit more detailed and slightly cooler. 

 I really haven't done a detailed comparison, because the DA10's amp is really difficult to use - that toggle switch is just annoying as hell._

 

Ok thank you very much!
 Am on a bit of a budget and think I can live with the toggle switch.
 DA10 + HD800 it will be for me then


----------



## EugeneK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slackman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok thank you very much!
 Am on a bit of a budget and think I can live with the toggle switch.
 DA10 + HD800 it will be for me then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The other cool thing you can do is actually get balanced cabling, and run it straight from the XLR outputs of the DA10.


----------



## slackman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The other cool thing you can do is actually get balanced cabling, and run it straight from the XLR outputs of the DA10. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes I was thinking about that too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I think I'll have to make my own balanced cable (if I can find HD800 connectors) as the prices for ready made balanced HD800 cables seem to be rediculous.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_most Macs (and I just learned this) have a mini optical output embedded in the 1/8" audio plug. What you need is a mini to standard size toslink adaptor and a good toslink cable (ideal is one with a glass fiber instead of standard plastic fiber)._

 

I didn't know there are 2 kinds. How do we know which is which? Where can we get glass fiber toslink cables? I don't like optical because it doesn't fit tightly in the opening and sometimes works loose.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, it will be interesting to hear the difference and worth the trouble I think. 

 The GS1K sound very good but I think it will get lots better with the others._

 

If your views run close to Cal's, I think a lot of HD800 folks are going to take a second look at the PS1000 and ED8. The GS1K seems to be losing ground on all fronts.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slackman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok thank you very much!
 Am on a bit of a budget and think I can live with the toggle switch.
 DA10 + HD800 it will be for me then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congrats, slackman. Be sure to post your SN and lineup when it arrives. And quick first impressions would be nice, too. I think a lot of head-fiers are interested in the Auditor because its specs match the Phonitor's and they don't feel a need for the Phonitor's speaker imaging controls. I've been following your dialogue with Eugene very closely because the Auditor seems to be an extremely good buy for those who prefer a more analytical amp with excellent engineering and superb dynamics throughout the full sound spectrum.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The other cool thing you can do is actually get balanced cabling, and run it straight from the XLR outputs of the DA10. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Eugene, have you (or anyone else) tried the unbalanced interconnects? I wonder what the SQ difference is, if any.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slackman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I was thinking about that too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I think I'll have to make my own balanced cable (if I can find HD800 connectors) as the prices for ready made balanced HD800 cables seem to be rediculous._

 

The few times I've tried to solder cables, the outcomes were disastrous. I've had zero technical training in doing it so I guess it's not too surprising. What are the most important tips for soldering audio cables? Type of soldering iron? Lead? Technique? Is there a website that provides simple instructions? Seems like a great skill to have for anyone into head-fi.


----------



## EugeneK

My DA10 outputs balanced to XLR. So I'm using an XLR cable to the auditor as well.


----------



## woodcans

I recently got a Phonitor to use w/ my pc>Berkeley>Phonitor>HD800 rig. I have about 150 hours on it and so far find it incredibly detailed w/ a very natural soundstage. I really like the speaker angle/crossfeed effect, I wouldn't say it sounds like I'm listening to speakers, but it doesn't quite sound like headphones either, I'd say somewhere in between. The only negative I have noticed so far is that at volumes greater than moderately loud, the highs can have too much energy. I have been able to correct this (almost) entirely by turning down the center level. I only notice this at levels that would probably not be safe for sustained listening sessions, and it is also recording-dependent.


----------



## feifan

Thanks, woodcans. I added you to the phonitor/auditor roundup -- see post #106.


----------



## fhuang

anybody compare unbalance(rca) to balanced(xlr) to balanced(xlr) to balanced(xlr)?


----------



## EugeneK

I guess I could do the unbalanced to balanced input tests, but it would involve me having to open up my DA10 to swap jumpers between tests, which I'm not inclined to do. >.<


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess I could do the unbalanced to balanced input tests, but it would involve me having to open up my DA10 to swap jumpers between tests, which I'm not inclined to do. >.<_

 

Yeah, that sounds like a lot of work. I'll see what I can do with the PS Audio DL3. I don't think I need to change any jumpers in the unit. But I'll probably need to order unbalanced XLRs,


----------



## Dinan

Has anyone built a custom 1/4" to RCA cable so they can use the Phonitor to drive their electrostatic headphopne amp? 

 This would allow the unique features of the Phonitor to be enjoyed through an Orpheus or Stax rig. I type this as I enjoy a Baby-O system which is great but sounds "broken" without the benefits of the Phonitor 

 I think I will have a cable made and try it. As long as the gain is kept down on the Phonitor, it should act as a buffer for the second amp and not overload it's input.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone built a custom 1/4" to RCA cable so they can use the Phonitor to drive their electrostatic headphopne amp? 

 This would allow the unique features of the Phonitor to be enjoyed through an Orpheus or Stax rig. I type this as I enjoy a Baby-O system which is great but sounds "broken" without the benefits of the Phonitor 

 I think I will have a cable made and try it. As long as the gain is kept down on the Phonitor, it should act as a buffer for the second amp and not overload it's input._

 

Never thought of this. Fascinating possibilities. In essence you're suggesting exploring the possibility of combining the Phonitor's speaker angling/center adjusting features with other amps so that all amps are potential Phonitors but with unique SQs such as enhanced bass, warmth, musicality, etc.

 Is this feasible? Wouldn't the Phonitor's amp (apart from the speaker angling/center adjusting features) distort the signal going to the second amp? Or can the special features be separated from the amp function?


----------



## woodcans

I think there would be degradation of the sound going through the Phonitors amplification stage and volume attenuator, as well as the crossfeed/angle circuitry if output from the 1/4" jack. To what degree, though? Line out RCA jacks sure would be nice for using the crossfeed/angle features and bypassing the amplification/volume stages.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Never thought of this. Fascinating possibilities. In essence you're suggesting exploring the possibility of combining the Phonitor's speaker angling/center adjusting features with other amps so that all amps are potential Phonitors but with unique SQs such as enhanced bass, warmth, musicality, etc.

 Is this feasible? Wouldn't the Phonitor's amp (apart from the speaker angling/center adjusting features) distort the signal going to the second amp? Or can the special features be separated from the amp function?_


----------



## Dinan

I'm not so sure that a medium level signal coming from a Class A amplifier stage would pose a big issue. It should in fact act as a buffer which is a good thing. The only issue would be voltage as you would have to be careful not to overdrive the gain stage in the second amp. 

 Someone else in this thread mentioned this some time back.


----------



## EugeneK

Oh, The Auditor has a clearly labeled gain knob, you could just set it to 0db and the input level should equal the output level. The phonitor should have the same labeling i think.


----------



## Dinan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, The Auditor has a clearly labeled gain knob, you could just set it to 0db and the input level should equal the output level. The phonitor should have the same labeling i think._

 

Yes it does but I do not think this equates to "unity gain" which is pass-through. My guess is that unity gain is around -19 on the dial but that will be easy to figure out with some experimentation.


----------



## EugeneK

I think it does equate to unity power gain, it still goes through the circuitry, but the power of the signal remains unchanged. I've tested it out, at 0db, it's equally loud on the DA10 headphone jack and the auditor headphone jack.


----------



## Dinan

I guess we will find out soon enough..I ordered a custom cable today from TARA Labs that is 1/4" Neutrik to RCA using their RSC conductors. I should have it sometime next week.

 I will try it out feeding the Sennheiser HE60/HEV70 rig first and report back the findings. It could either flop or be great!


----------



## Dinan

Just stumbled across this computer program that does what the Phonitor does and more. It also lets you control the virtual positioning of the speakers the virtual room, the size of the virtual room, and the position of the listener in the virtual room. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/pra...macosx-304385/

 If I get brave and can get my wife to install it for me as the setup looks tricky and I am no computer expert, it would be fun to try. 

 Sorry to hijack but it seemed interesting for us crossfeed believers!


----------



## EugeneK

I have crossfeed installed on my foobar2k player. I use it sparingly as I still prefer my music without crossfeed.


----------



## woodcans

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just stumbled across this computer program that does what the Phonitor does and more. It also lets you control the virtual positioning of the speakers the virtual room, the size of the virtual room, and the position of the listener in the virtual room. 

 If I get brave and can get my wife to install it for me as the setup looks tricky and I am no computer expert, it would be fun to try. 

 Sorry to hijack but it seemed interesting for us crossfeed believers!_

 

Link??


----------



## Dinan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woodcans* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Link??_

 

Sorry. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/pra...macosx-304385/


----------



## EugeneK

Looks like we'll finally have a good phonitor vs auditor comparison soon. We're having a Ann Arbor Mini-meet. Hopefully, there'll be a phonitor, an auditor and 2 HD800s there.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like we'll finally have a good phonitor vs auditor comparison soon. We're having a Ann Arbor Mini-meet. Hopefully, there'll be a phonitor, an auditor and 2 HD800s there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow! Alright! Will the HD800s have stock cables? I always wonder if "better" or enhanced cables will make a difference. Any chance of the PS1000 and ED8 being there, too? I'm very curious about the differences. Keep us posted on the date so we can log in to ask you guys questions if you happen to be on and posting from the site.

 The longer I use the Phonitor, the more I like it. I've been spending a lot more time with the HF-2 plugged into it, and I'm really beginning to like it. The bass is crisp, dynamic, deep, and punchy. The soundstage seems small, but when you get past that, you realize how much fun the HF-2 is. It synergizes well with the Phonitor.


----------



## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like we'll finally have a good phonitor vs auditor comparison soon. We're having a Ann Arbor Mini-meet. Hopefully, there'll be a phonitor, an auditor and 2 HD800s there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I thought the comparison is done some time back with HD800, PS1000 and ED8. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, we're also having a meet in October. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Singapore Can Slam 2009! - SGHeadphones


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the comparison is done some time back with HD800, PS1000 and ED8. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, and the initial comparisons got my attention -- and maybe others' too. But I'd still like to hear from others as well as head-fiers like you who've had a chance to share initial impressions. Any changes in opinion after the longer trial? Seems at least one other person has the same set of 'phones as you.

  Quote:


 Anyway, we're also having a meet in October. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Singapore Can Slam 2009! - SGHeadphones 
 

Can't wait to hear your reports, see your photos! Will the Phonitor/Auditor be playing a major role?

 Just checked the site -- looks like a lot of folks showing up -- and you'll be demo-ing the Phonitor. The person who said he/she ought to pay double because he'll be eating a lot is funny. And what's this about "Girls!"?


----------



## EugeneK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the comparison is done some time back with HD800, PS1000 and ED8. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, we're also having a meet in October. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Singapore Can Slam 2009! - SGHeadphones_

 

Oops, where is it? >.< I think I missed it.


----------



## EugeneK

:X Maybe I should have waited a month before buying the auditor. SPL just released the 2control, $620, with crossfeed. >.<

 The 2control does have relaxed specifications compared to the phonitor and the auditor.


----------



## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, and the initial comparisons got my attention -- and maybe others' too. But I'd still like to hear from others as well as head-fiers like you who've had a chance to share initial impressions. Any changes in opinion after the longer trial? Seems at least one other person has the same set of 'phones as you.

 Can't wait to hear your reports, see your photos! Will the Phonitor/Auditor be playing a major role?

 Just checked the site -- looks like a lot of folks showing up -- and you'll be demo-ing the Phonitor. The person who said he/she ought to pay double because he'll be eating a lot is funny. And what's this about "Girls!"?_

 

I believe there'll be plenty of impressions after the meet for the Phonitor. But I'm not sure whether the local distributor will be bring along the Auditor since most are more interested in Phonitor which completely sold out here. I think the Blue Hawaii for Stax will play the major role than SPL. 

 My impression is the same as usual. Is there another person that own all the three cans now? It'll be nice to know his thought about them. 

 I've a feeling that it'll turn out big this time. It a event that all of us have been waiting for and it finally happen. 

 Haha! I know who you're talking about. He's a BIG nice guy and a good friend that we've know through this hobby. 

 Don't tell me that Camjam don't have hot girls around to showcase the products?? Girls is a must to match our rigs. Like sport car with sexy babe. You've to attend to find out yourself.


----------



## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_:X Maybe I should have waited a month before buying the auditor. SPL just released the 2control, $620, with crossfeed. >.<

 The 2control does have relaxed specifications compared to the phonitor and the auditor._

 

I thought you prefer your music without crossfeed. Your Auditor is good enough.


----------



## EugeneK

Well, The main thing would be that it's even cheaper than the Auditor. XD


----------



## Sceptre

Hi all.

 Anyone have experience of the Phonitor with JH13 or other high end IEM's?

 Regards

 Sceptre


----------



## Dinan

Well this is REALLY interesting to me...I just got my Edition 8s (still waiting for my PS1000 and HD800 which are due any day now) and oddly enough they sound best to me with Corssfeed and Angle defeated but still with the Center maxed out. I wonder if this has something to do with the S-Logic system? 

 On a slightly off topic note, the Edition 8s have great imaging, detail, and a slamming bottom end with amazing extension. They kill my GS1000 in every way and challenge me HE60 in many ways. Based on ical's comments, I can't wait to try the HD800 and PS1000 as he states that these are even better. But so far, the Edition 8 comes the closest to the characteristics of my speaker rig (Focal Grande Utopia). 

 I also have my custom 1/4" to RCA cable and will get around to feeding my Stax 007 rig out of the Phonitor's headphone out to play with Crossfeed etc. This could be a complete waste of time but it certainly won't hurt to try.


----------



## pumbaa32

Any update on the different sound signature between the Auditor and Phonitor? I know it is a bit out of subject but some one has any idea on how these amp sound compared to the Ballanced Little dot MK7 amp?


----------



## John_H88

For me:

 SN 83001xx
 CF 2 
 Angle 40
 Center -0.9


----------



## ical

Glad you're happy with your new toy.


----------



## SteveM324

I just recently upgraded my IC between my Rega Saturn and the Phonitor from budget Audio Art cables to a Cardas Neutral Reference that improved dynamics and provided a warmer and more full body sound. Now I'm surprised how well the Phonitor drives my K340. It is one of the few SS amps that I've tried that make the K340 sound great. I've had the opinion that the K340 needs a tube amp to sound their best but the Phonitor has changed my opinion. This combination has excellent pinpoint imaging and a big soundstage. The midrange is warm and the bass is full. Female vocals are very nice. Absolutely no listening fatigue with this setup. I still like the Phonitor driving my HD800s but now the K340 sounds great too.


----------



## dukja

I am interested in getting a Auditor. However, all my HP's are single-ended (unbalanced). From what I heard here, the benefit of balance only maintained if it is done all the way (DAC -> AMP -> HP). So I would appreciate your experience about using Auditor/Phonitor with SE HP (if anyone ever tried it).

 1. If I have XLR (balanced) interconnect between DAC and AMP, but use XLR-to-unbalanced headphone connection, do I lost much of the sound quality such as clarity/details/soundstage/focus? How much degradation will I experience

 2. If it is still good, where can I get good quality XLR-to-1/4" adaptor?

 Eventually, I'll send out one of my HP for balanced connection, but I need sometime to figure out which. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Many thanks for your help!


----------



## SteveM324

The Phonitor is not a balanced amp. The headphone connection is the standard 1/4" plug input on the front panel of the amp. The amp inputs in the rear are XLR connectors. If your DAC/CD player only has SE (RCA) outputs, then you will need either an RCA female to XLR (male) adapter or an IC with RCA and XLR connections. I bought a Cardas adapter to use on my RCA interconnects and it works fine. The Phonitor is a great sounding amp. The Phonitor and the HD800 is a great combination. I really like the crossfeed controls, however you don't get that with the Auditor.


----------



## argentum

Auditor is great sounding amp too. I use this adapter - Neutrik - Audio - Circular Adapters - NA2MPMF , got the idea from ical post - http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/spl...ml#post5941172. I haven't noticed any sound degradation while using this adapter. I bought Meier Audio StageDAc (haven't received it yet though) to get nice crossfeed feature and hopefully great DAC as well. In the long run i will buy HD800/Beyer T1 or AKG's new top model and after that I will hopefully be done with this frickin wallet burnin hobby.


----------



## dukja

You are absolutely right. I must be changing minds on different amps and got so lost of my mind. Both SPL amps use SE 1/4" for HP. And I could use my DL III XLR output to feed it. 

 Thanks and bear with that dumb question.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sceptre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all.

 Anyone have experience of the Phonitor with JH13 or other high end IEM's?

 Regards

 Sceptre_

 

Hey, Sceptre. I haven't tried it with any IEMs, but I'm really curious to hear the answer to your question. Hopefully those with quality IEMs will try them out.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pumbaa32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any update on the different sound signature between the Auditor and Phonitor? I know it is a bit out of subject but some one has any idea on how these amp sound compared to the Ballanced Little dot MK7 amp?_

 

Hi, pumbaa32. We've had some postings that compared the two, but nothing really comprehensive. But I'm sure that will be coming as more and more head-fiers get into the SPL sound.

 I've had my eye on the LD MK7 balanced amp and would like to know the answer to your question. The Phonitor/Auditor are SE amps, but my guess is that they stack up well against balanced amps, too.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *John_H88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just picked up the D7000's this afternoon and listening right now with the Phonitor. I couldn't be happier, a very large step forward from the HD650's to me. The variations between CF, Sp Angle, and Center settings are also more pronounced through the D7000's than the HD 650's.

 For me:

 SN 83001xx
 CF 2 
 Angle 40
 Center -0.9_

 

Welcome aboard, John_H88. I added you to the roster (see the OP).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SteveM324* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Phonitor is not a balanced amp. The headphone connection is the standard 1/4" plug input on the front panel of the amp. The amp inputs in the rear are XLR connectors. If your DAC/CD player only has SE (RCA) outputs, then you will need either an RCA female to XLR (male) adapter or an IC with RCA and XLR connections. I bought a Cardas adapter to use on my RCA interconnects and it works fine. The Phonitor is a great sounding amp. The Phonitor and the HD800 is a great combination. I really like the crossfeed controls, however you don't get that with the Auditor._

 

SteveM324, welcome aboard! I added you to the roster, which has been moved to the OP. BTW, you have quite a collection of 'phones: from your sig: HD800, Edition 9,HD650, K340,Shure E500. Hope to see some reviews on how they synergize with the Phonitor.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *argentum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Auditor is great sounding amp too. I use this adapter - Neutrik - Audio - Circular Adapters - NA2MPMF , got the idea from ical post - http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/spl...ml#post5941172. I haven't noticed any sound degradation while using this adapter. I bought Meier Audio StageDAc (haven't received it yet though) to get nice crossfeed feature and hopefully great DAC as well. In the long run i will buy HD800/Beyer T1 or AKG's new top model and after that I will hopefully be done with this frickin wallet burnin hobby. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Welcome aboard, argentum. Sorry about the wallet. Head-fi or a life? Most of us can't afford to have both.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are absolutely right. I must be changing minds on different amps and got so lost of my mind. Both SPL amps use SE 1/4" for HP. And I could use my DL III XLR output to feed it. 

 Thanks and bear with that dumb question._

 

Hey, Dukja. Not a dumb question at all. The SPLs are oriented to studio work so they're strange for home audiophiles. BTW, how do you like the DL III? Is it stock?


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well this is REALLY interesting to me...I just got my Edition 8s (still waiting for my PS1000 and HD800 which are due any day now) and oddly enough they sound best to me with Corssfeed and Angle defeated but still with the Center maxed out. I wonder if this has something to do with the S-Logic system? 

 On a slightly off topic note, the Edition 8s have great imaging, detail, and a slamming bottom end with amazing extension. They kill my GS1000 in every way and challenge me HE60 in many ways. Based on ical's comments, I can't wait to try the HD800 and PS1000 as he states that these are even better. But so far, the Edition 8 comes the closest to the characteristics of my speaker rig (Focal Grande Utopia). 

 I also have my custom 1/4" to RCA cable and will get around to feeding my Stax 007 rig out of the Phonitor's headphone out to play with Crossfeed etc. This could be a complete waste of time but it certainly won't hurt to try._

 

Hey, Dinan. Congrats on getting the Edition 8! Are the PS1000 and HD800 in the house yet? Man, I'm green with envy. It'll be at least another year or more before I'll be able to afford either the Ed8 or PS1K. In the meantime, I'd like to hear about your experiences with these cans and Phonitor. Ical's got many of us panting after this golden triangle.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe there'll be plenty of impressions after the meet for the Phonitor. But I'm not sure whether the local distributor will be bring along the Auditor since most are more interested in Phonitor which completely sold out here. I think the Blue Hawaii for Stax will play the major role than SPL. 

 My impression is the same as usual. Is there another person that own all the three cans now? It'll be nice to know his thought about them. 

 I've a feeling that it'll turn out big this time. It a event that all of us have been waiting for and it finally happen. 

 Haha! I know who you're talking about. He's a BIG nice guy and a good friend that we've know through this hobby. 

 Don't tell me that Camjam don't have hot girls around to showcase the products?? Girls is a must to match our rigs. Like sport car with sexy babe. You've to attend to find out yourself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Cal, I saw the pics from the Singapore Canjam that you posted. You Singaporeans sure know how to jam -- great equipment, fabulous food, and hot babes! I didn't have time to take a careful look but will do so soon. Did the Blue Hawaii steal the show as you predicted? Did the Phonitor get some attention? Raves?


----------



## Dinan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, Dinan. Congrats on getting the Edition 8! Are the PS1000 and HD800 in the house yet? Man, I'm green with envy. It'll be at least another year or more before I'll be able to afford either the Ed8 or PS1K. In the meantime, I'd like to hear about your experiences with these cans and Phonitor. Ical's got many of us panting after this golden triangle._

 

Thanks. 

 The Ed 8 are very lively with the best bass and great extension on the top. THe build quality and comfort is top notch. The PS1000 is warm and forgiving compared to the other two but for me has some serious comfort issues with their weight. The HD800 (while I still haven't received the order, I have listened to plenty) is the best all around of the 3 and the one that I would probably rate the highest. 

 An interesting note is that both myself and ical have gone almost entirely electrostatic. My regular listening is new done on a STAX SRM-717 with O2 Mk1, O2 Mk2, or SR-404 Limited Editions. It is a disease that never ends and the only place to go from a Phonitor with the best dynamic cans, is to stats!


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_An interesting note is that both myself and ical have gone almost entirely electrostatic. My regular listening is new done on a STAX SRM-717 with O2 Mk1, O2 Mk2, or SR-404 Limited Editions. It is a disease that never ends and the only place to go from a Phonitor with the best dynamic cans, is to stats! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Groan! I wish you hadn't said this. I was hoping I wouldn't be drawn into the STAX sphere. I've even consciously avoided reading e-stats threads.

 Is e-static better or just different? How?

 Re our "disease": I'm beginning to think it's part of the homo sapien genome to crave something different even when he have the best possible in hand. I find myself going to my other equipment lineups and then returning to the Phonitor-HD800 only to realize how exceptional this combo is. But this realization doesn't keep me from wanting to try other equipment! LOL!


----------



## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cal, I saw the pics from the Singapore Canjam that you posted. You Singaporeans sure know how to jam -- great equipment, fabulous food, and hot babes! I didn't have time to take a careful look but will do so soon. Did the Blue Hawaii steal the show as you predicted? Did the Phonitor get some attention? Raves?_

 

It was a great meet! The Blue Hawaii with it's cans are indeed the star. With my Phonitor that was placed just beside them, it start to lose it's shine. But there's a few that really like my setup with HD800.


----------



## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Groan! I wish you hadn't said this. I was hoping I wouldn't be drawn into the STAX sphere. I've even consciously avoided reading e-stats threads.

 Is e-static better or just different? How?

 Re our "disease": I'm beginning to think it's part of the homo sapien genome to crave something different even when he have the best possible in hand. I find myself going to my other equipment lineups and then returning to the Phonitor-HD800 only to realize how exceptional this combo is. But this realization doesn't keep me from wanting to try other equipment! LOL!_

 

Stax is really poisonous! I was bitten badly. Sad to say the O2Mk1 with 717 is obviously better in all aspects than my Phonitor with HD800/PS1000/ED8. It reminds me of speakers than headphone. Yes, it an improvement than difference. I've thought of owning two system but after listening to Stax for some time, it almost impossible to go back to dynamic. So I decided to give up all of them and just concentrate on Stax.


----------



## Dinan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stax is really poisonous! I was bitten badly. Sad to say the O2Mk1 with 717 is obviously better in all aspects than my Phonitor with HD800/PS1000/ED8. It reminds me of speakers than headphone. Yes, it an improvement than difference. I've thought of owning two system but after listening to Stax for some time, it almost impossible to go back to dynamic. So I decided to give up all of them and just concentrate on Stax._

 

That pretty much took the words out of my mouth so....what he said!


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stax is really poisonous! I was bitten badly. Sad to say the O2Mk1 with 717 is obviously better in all aspects than my Phonitor with HD800/PS1000/ED8. It reminds me of speakers than headphone. Yes, it an improvement than difference. I've thought of owning two system but after listening to Stax for some time, it almost impossible to go back to dynamic. So I decided to give up all of them and just concentrate on Stax._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That pretty much took the words out of my mouth so....what he said! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow! Cal and Dinan, there's that much of a difference? That's scary. I mean, moving completely into Stax. Sounds like the holy grail of SQ. What's the major difference? Soundstage? Dynamics? Musicality?


----------



## Dinan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow! Cal and Dinan, there's that much of a difference? That's scary. I mean, moving completely into Stax. Sounds like the holy grail of SQ. What's the major difference? Soundstage? Dynamics? Musicality?_

 

Musicality is outstanding, bass articulation, transparency in the mids and highs, for me the soundstage of a STAX O2 rig equaled that of the Phonitor running the best dynamic cans, and many smaller differences. Not to mention that you can listen to a good electrostatic rig for an entire day with no hint of fatigue. 

 Don't get me wrong, I really love the Phonitor with good dynamic cans but a top stat rig should be a step up based on price point alone.


----------



## omigawsh_lollercoaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is a disease that never ends and the only place to go from a Phonitor with the best dynamic cans, is to stats! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm well satisfied for now but it's nice to know there's a sweet new toy down the audio road waiting for me someday.


----------



## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Musicality is outstanding, bass articulation, transparency in the mids and highs, for me the soundstage of a STAX O2 rig equaled that of the Phonitor running the best dynamic cans, and many smaller differences. Not to mention that you can listen to a good electrostatic rig for an entire day with no hint of fatigue. 

 Don't get me wrong, I really love the Phonitor with good dynamic cans but a top stat rig should be a step up based on price point alone._

 

Well said Dinan!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow! Cal and Dinan, there's that much of a difference? That's scary. I mean, moving completely into Stax. Sounds like the holy grail of SQ._

 

Yes the difference or should I say improvement is huge enough for me to give up dynamic. I'm enjoying music more than before. 

 Don't be mistaken, Phonitor is still the best solidstate amp that I've ever heard.


----------



## fhuang

does anybody have any experience with 2 control with akgs such as k400 or k501 or k601? and if i don't need speaker simulations, 2 control is similar to the phonitor?


----------



## alcyst

Setup is; Wadia 170 - EMU 0404USB - Phonitor. Headphones are HD800s and ATH-W5000. And its all pretty wonderful. 

 I havn't spent time with the crossfeed.

 The EMU will (probably) go at some stage. The ideal replacement might be an SACD player with a digital input for the onboard DAC that the Wadia could feed for Red Book CDs. Wadia's own 581 does that, but it weighs 25kg.

 I have noticed that while the HD800s seem to produce similiar sound levels for all tracks, the W5000s are much softer on some tracks/albums than on on others, is that a matter of perception or to do with sensitivities and impedances?


----------



## Dinan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alcyst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have noticed that while the HD800s seem to produce similiar sound levels for all tracks, the W5000s are much softer on some tracks/albums than on on others, is that a matter of perception or to do with sensitivities and impedances?_

 

Congrats....nice rig! 

 I think your change in level is due to perception as any minute changes in impedance during play wouldn't be noticed by the amp stage in the Phonitor.


----------



## feifan

Alcyst, welcome aboard. Your Phonitor's been added to the list (see OP). The volume fluctuation with the W5000 is interesting. Were you doing an A-B comparison with lineup remaining constant?

 Dinan and Cal: I'm still marvelling at the Phonitor sound but e-static definitely sounds like a future path. But I'm still not sure if it would be a new path or an evolutionary one. Your comments that e-static is better make me think that the improvement is evolutionary and not a separate and "different" branch altogether. My next step has been gradually toward balancing the HD800, which means exploring balanced amps. I have balanced HD800 cables for both the 2x3 and 1x4 pin XLRs and am looking forward to exploring amps when I can afford them. Right now, I have the HeadRoom Desktop balanced amp (w/ Home modules). Your comments about e-statics, though, are intriguing and forcing me to reconsider future paths.

 Right now, I find that I need to spend time with my other setups to fully appreciate how good the Phonitor is. Whenever I return to it, I marvel at the clarity and dynamics.


----------



## alcyst

I was listening to a selection of CDs I had just bought. One (Steve Earle & Del McCoury band, The Montain) came across as distinctly lower, Earle's Copperhead Road and others were louder. I didn't keep the level the same, the HD800s take higher power to get the same volume so this was not scientific.

 It didn't get in the way of enjoying the music, and didn't seem associated with any lack in quality.


----------



## alcyst

why all those vents, mine doesn't get tepid even after hours of use


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alcyst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was listening to a selection of CDs I had just bought. One (Steve Earle & Del McCoury band, The Montain) came across as distinctly lower, Earle's Copperhead Road and others were louder. I didn't keep the level the same, the HD800s take higher power to get the same volume so this was not scientific.

 It didn't get in the way of enjoying the music, and didn't seem associated with any lack in quality._

 

From what I know of the HD800, the 56mm transducers -- largest in headphones to date -- might be the key difference, extending dynamic range across the spectrum to maintain a flat response that's unbelievable.

 I know very little about the ATH-W5000 so I may be totally wrong, but my guess is that it may not have the vast transducer construct that can match the HD800's, thus delivering dynamics that aren't consistent across the sound spectrum.

 If you hadn't heard the HD800, you wouldn't be aware of this tendency in the W5000. In this way, the HD800 is very revealing -- revealing weakness in equipment and sources.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alcyst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why all those vents, mine doesn't get tepid even after hours of use_

 

Good question. Yeah, mine, too. It never gets above a light warmth. The vents may explain the dissipation, but you'd think you'd still feel some heat after hours of heavy listening.

 Personally, I like the vents. In SS amps, heat is the killer of capacitors and other parts. The less, the better. For me, the Phonitor build quality, the SPL engineering, is part of the allure of this amp. And the vents demonstrate to me the thought, expertise, and aesthetics that have gone into the design. It just looks and feels professional.


----------



## alcyst

Like some people I find the Phonitor's crossfeed effect fairly subtle, though I do leave the center and crossfeed on. One record where the effect is pretty pronounced is Solsbury Hill on Peter Gabriel's 1st album. 

 An album review on peter gabriel: car commented that an extreme panning "technique applied to many of the songs insturments,...listening to Solsbury Hill in audiophile headphones can create a sense of motion sickness".

 I didn't throw-up, but on non-crossfeed amplifiers it is a fairly extreme technique. Anybody got any others?


----------



## suikodenii

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alcyst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like some people I find the Phonitor's crossfeed effect fairly subtle, though I do leave the center and crossfeed on. One record where the effect is pretty pronounced is Solsbury Hill on Peter Gabriel's 1st album. 

 An album review on peter gabriel: car commented that an extreme panning "technique applied to many of the songs insturments,...listening to Solsbury Hill in audiophile headphones can create a sense of motion sickness".

 I didn't throw-up, but on non-crossfeed amplifiers it is a fairly extreme technique. Anybody got any others?_

 


 The Body Acoustic (Chesky Records) - barely unlistenable to me on headphones, you have instruments 90 degrees to the right and left as well as directly in fornt of you. 

 The Phonitor's cross feed cures that in that it places the left/right sources in an angle in front.

 By the way I also own HD800 and W5000 but didn't yet notice the effect that you mentioned on the W5000. I will need to listen for it next time.
 I added some stuffing to the pads on the upper part of the W5000 recently and the W5000 gets a lot more attention currently (it now has slightly fuller tone, probably I haven't had a perfect fit before despite bending the frame). I am always amazed at the clarity that this hp exhibits


----------



## AmanGeorge

*Sigh* I have an Auditor on the way...


----------



## alcyst

It could be a side effect of setting different volumes levels on the 2 'phones, combined with me being less sensitive to volume below some number of decibels, i.e. maybe I had the volume for the W5000 at a level that worked fine for loud tracks, but shaded below some threshold for softer tracks.

 The Body Acoustic gets polarised reviews, what do you think? The Cyndi Lauper album of the same name gets more straightforward positives!


----------



## AmanGeorge

Straight out of the box, the Auditor is *extremely* transparent, count me impressed at how detailed and uncolored the signal is. The only thing that has surprised me is that the amp is not quite as high gain as I was hoping/expecting - my normal listening levels are between 12 or 1 o'clock on it with my AKG K701. The challenge will be to see how it does with the HE-5, hopefully sometime soon...


----------



## suikodenii

interesting. I would think that the Audiotor has the same gain as the Phonitor. Are you sure you have not accidently switched the 20 dB attenuation switch (unless the Auditor doesn't have that switch which I don't know)?
 I also have a stock PS Audio DL3 balanced into the Phonitor and with my 300 Ohm HD800 I have usually set the Phonitor to -40 dB (~8'clock).
 I have my AG701 in the office unfortunately but when I had them at home I don't think I went beyond 9 o'clock in the above combination. 
 Now people hear different but 1 o'clock sounds really high to me with the DL3 connected via balanced - as the DL3 outputs a really high level that on some CDs even lets the input LED on the Phonitor flash (on which SPL told me by the way not to worry as the input stage of the Phonitor would not be overloaded easily anyway).
 So actually sometimes I switch the 20 dB switch in order to have a bit more dial.


----------



## suikodenii

The Body Acoustic gets polarised reviews, what do you think? The Cyndi Lauper album of the same name gets more straightforward positives![/QUOTE] 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Actually the Body Acoustic is not necessarily my favourite type of Jazz and I haven't listened to it much yet - which probably also has to do with the fact that I only listen to headphones and prior to the Phonitor I found this record really challenging on headphones.


----------



## feifan

suikodenii and AmanGeorge - thanks for your posts and discussion! I've added your SPL amps to the list -- see the OP.

 suikodenii, your comments about the subtlety of the Phonitor's "speaker" placement features and how to hear the difference is spot on.

 I really hear it when I listen to another quality amp for a while then switch back to the Phonitor. The difference in separation and angle become vibrantly clear, and the other amp's presentation seems, in comparison, constricted and one dimensional. 

 But for this test to work, it seems what's needed -- as you say -- is quality recordings or specific kinds of recordings.


----------



## SteveM324

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AmanGeorge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Straight out of the box, the Auditor is *extremely* transparent, count me impressed at how detailed and uncolored the signal is. The only thing that has surprised me is that the amp is not quite as high gain as I was hoping/expecting - my normal listening levels are between 12 or 1 o'clock on it with my AKG K701. The challenge will be to see how it does with the HE-5, hopefully sometime soon..._

 

I can't speak for the Auditor but the Phonitor has plenty of gain. Last night I listened to my AKG K340 through the Phonitor and at normal listening levels, I had the volume control at about 11:30 - 12:00. If I turned it up to 1:00, it would be uncomfortably loud. This is with the hardest to drive dynamic can available(excluding the K1000 which is designed for speaker amps). I've owned the K701 and it is not anywhere near the beast to drive as the K340. I might add that the Phonitor/K340 sounds great with warmth and a full body sound. This amp mates extremely well with the HD800 as well. Its sound through the 800 is slightly warm. Midrange is transparent and the highs are clear, and unfatiguing. I generally love the tube amp sound but the Phonitor leaves me wanting for nothing more. It truly is a fantastic amp.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SteveM324* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I generally love the tube amp sound but the Phonitor leaves me wanting for nothing more. It truly is a fantastic amp._

 

this calls for another mini meet with b22 thrown in


----------



## AmanGeorge

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SteveM324* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't speak for the Auditor but the Phonitor has plenty of gain. Last night I listened to my AKG K340 through the Phonitor and at normal listening levels, I had the volume control at about 11:30 - 12:00. If I turned it up to 1:00, it would be uncomfortably loud. This is with the hardest to drive dynamic can available(excluding the K1000 which is designed for speaker amps). I've owned the K701 and it is not anywhere near the beast to drive as the K340. I might add that the Phonitor/K340 sounds great with warmth and a full body sound. This amp mates extremely well with the HD800 as well. Its sound through the 800 is slightly warm. Midrange is transparent and the highs are clear, and unfatiguing. I generally love the tube amp sound but the Phonitor leaves me wanting for nothing more. It truly is a fantastic amp._

 

Interesting - maybe the Auditor does have less gain than the Phonitor. The level of gain I need varies a good deal from track to track - for some I'm comfortable at 10 o'clock, for others I need to get up to 1 o'clock to really get juice out of it. My worry is that maybe it mates better with higher-impedance loads like the HD800 and K340 than lower-impedance loads like the K701 or the HE-5 I have on the way.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *suikodenii* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_interesting. I would think that the Audiotor has the same gain as the Phonitor. Are you sure you have not accidently switched the 20 dB attenuation switch (unless the Auditor doesn't have that switch which I don't know)?
 I also have a stock PS Audio DL3 balanced into the Phonitor and with my 300 Ohm HD800 I have usually set the Phonitor to -40 dB (~8'clock).
 I have my AG701 in the office unfortunately but when I had them at home I don't think I went beyond 9 o'clock in the above combination. 
 Now people hear different but 1 o'clock sounds really high to me with the DL3 connected via balanced - as the DL3 outputs a really high level that on some CDs even lets the input LED on the Phonitor flash (on which SPL told me by the way not to worry as the input stage of the Phonitor would not be overloaded easily anyway).
 So actually sometimes I switch the 20 dB switch in order to have a bit more dial._

 

I haven't seen an attenuation switch on the Auditor - I'm not sure it exists. Have you tried the DL3 unbalanced vs balanced out? Does balanced out have more gain?


----------



## SteveM324

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this calls for another mini meet with b22 thrown in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Did you build a b22 or are you referring to the one Eugene is building? I'm in for another mini-meet. Eugene, are you in?


----------



## argentum

Quote:


 My worry is that maybe it mates better with higher-impedance loads like the HD800 and K340 than lower-impedance loads like the K701 or the HE-5 I have on the way. 
 

This is right I believe. The power output for both is - Max. Output Performance:
 1,7W (+32,2dBm) @ 1 kHz and 600 Ohms connection
 360mW (+25,6dBm) @ 1 kHz and 30 Ohms connection. So both are at their best when used with high impedance cans.


----------



## MarkyMark

Hi,

 Has anyone compared the Auditor against the Lehmann BCL on the HD800? I'm particularly interested in the bass performance as my current amps are struggling a bit there I think, no doubt due to the huge deviation from the nominal 300ohm impedance in the lower registers. I like the look of the Auditor as it seems to have the juice to cope, also I'm not really sure I need the extra facilities on the Phonitor.

 Cheers.


----------



## suikodenii

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AmanGeorge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting - maybe the Auditor does have less gain than the Phonitor. The level of gain I need varies a good deal from track to track - for some I'm comfortable at 10 o'clock, for others I need to get up to 1 o'clock to really get juice out of it. My worry is that maybe it mates better with higher-impedance loads like the HD800 and K340 than lower-impedance loads like the K701 or the HE-5 I have on the way._

 

I don't know if it mates better with high impedance cans all I can say it that is drives my low impedance cans extremely well. In any case the low audable level is in my view not related to mating good or bad with low impedance cans (i.e. providing them with the level of current they need). On the Phonitor/DL3 combo with balanced connection I do not go beyond 9:00-10:00o' clock with any of my headphones that I currently have at home (incl low impedance ones like the ATH W5000 ~45 Ohm, JVC DX1000 ~65 Ohm, LA 2000 (modded Denon 2000) ~27 Ohm).


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AmanGeorge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't seen an attenuation switch on the Auditor - I'm not sure it exists. Have you tried the DL3 unbalanced vs balanced out? Does balanced out have more gain?_

 

Unfortunately I can't test this thoroughly as my amps have either RCA (AT HA 5000) or balanced (Phonitor) only connections and I do not have an adapter. However I saw several times in various forums that the balanced is supposed to have a higher output - an audio vendor page I recently found states the output levels of the DL3 as RCA: 2.75V & XLR: 5.5V. If you own the Auditor and the DL3 I would think that going 'balanced to balanced' would be the best combination anyway.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SteveM324* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you build a b22 or are you referring to the one Eugene is building? I'm in for another mini-meet. Eugene, are you in?_

 

god no (I can't solder remember 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thrice built it.


----------



## Dinan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MarkyMark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 Has anyone compared the Auditor against the Lehmann BCL on the HD800? I'm particularly interested in the bass performance as my current amps are struggling a bit there I think, no doubt due to the huge deviation from the nominal 300ohm impedance in the lower registers. I like the look of the Auditor as it seems to have the juice to cope, also I'm not really sure I need the extra facilities on the Phonitor.

 Cheers._

 

The BCL is excellent but the Phonitor was better across the board including the bass and especially in the mids and top end. 

 I have no idea about the Auditor as I have not owned or listened to one but it is supposed to be the same amp section.


----------



## AmanGeorge

It does sound excellent with my K701 despite being turned up so high - there's no distortion at all. I'll wait until the orthos are in hand to make a decision...


----------



## MarkyMark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The BCL is excellent but the Phonitor was better across the board including the bass and especially in the mids and top end. 

 I have no idea about the Auditor as I have not owned or listened to one but it is supposed to be the same amp section._

 

Thanks for the info Dinan


----------



## Kolosch

_Hi all! My first post here._

 Anybody compare Auditor to M^3+σ11 (or maybe b22)?
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've tried the auditor with a D2000 and a DA10 - it's way too dark for me._

 

What you think about synergy with D2000(mod+cups) and Buffalo DAC. Is that will be dark too?


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kolosch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all! My first post here.

 Anybody compare Auditor to M^3+σ11 (or maybe b22)?
 What you think about synergy with D2000(mod+cups) and Buffalo DAC. Is that will be dark too?_

 

Kolosch, congrats on your first post to Head-Fi!

 Re your questions: I'll leave it to others to respond since I have had no experience with the equipment you mention.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kolosch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all! My first post here.

 Anybody compare Auditor to M^3+σ11 (or maybe b22)?
 What you think about synergy with D2000(mod+cups) and Buffalo DAC. Is that will be dark too?_

 

M3 < Auditor/Phonitor < B22 

 I thought this was obvious. Don't like D2000.


----------



## tohenk2

Hi Ical - nice setup! Can you (ore anyone else) tell me what make/model the clamps are on which the headphones are hanging?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To make this thread more interesting, we should post pic as well. It tells a thousand words. I'll start first then. 









_


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tohenk2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Ical - nice setup! Can you (ore anyone else) tell me what make/model the clamps are on which the headphones are hanging?_

 

Cal could tell you a lot more about the clamp headphone stands. They're Sennheisers. After seeing Cal's, I ordered a couple for my rig, too. They're cool because they free up desk or shelf surfaces. I find, though, that I have to be careful not to bump into them since they stick out a bit. Also, adjusting the clamp to accommodate different shelf widths isn't as intuitive as it seems or ought to be. I wrestled with them until I figured out how to do it. Before you order them, make sure you have an idea of where you're going to place them.


----------



## Dinan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tohenk2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Ical - nice setup! Can you (ore anyone else) tell me what make/model the clamps are on which the headphones are hanging?_

 

As pointed out already, they are Sennheiser HH10 holders. These little guys are awesome and I keep one within arms reach of each of my listening areas to hang my cans on if I get up for short periods. However, I bag them in felt pouches when I am done listening for the day.


----------



## tohenk2

Thanks for the answers guys!

 If I order them I will be carefull with the fact that both the headphones and house-dwellers can be damaged 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (important things first, a bump on the head will heal... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cal could tell you a lot more about the clamp headphone stands. They're Sennheisers. After seeing Cal's, I ordered a couple for my rig, too. They're cool because they free up desk or shelf surfaces. I find, though, that I have to be careful not to bump into them since they stick out a bit. Also, adjusting the clamp to accommodate different shelf widths isn't as intuitive as it seems or ought to be. I wrestled with them until I figured out how to do it. Before you order them, make sure you have an idea of where you're going to place them._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As pointed out already, they are Sennheiser HH10 holders. These little guys are awesome and I keep one within arms reach of each of my listening areas to hang my cans on if I get up for short periods. However, I bag them in felt pouches when I am done listening for the day._


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tohenk2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the answers guys!

 If I order them I will be carefull with the fact that both the headphones and house-dwellers can be damaged 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (important things first, a bump on the head will heal... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

LOL!


----------



## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tohenk2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Ical - nice setup! Can you (ore anyone else) tell me what make/model the clamps are on which the headphones are hanging?_

 

Thanks! They do sound great. However, I've sold them and converted completely to Stax now which suit me better. 

 Yes, those clamps are from Sennheisers. They works very well. Still using now for quick placement of my headphones.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! They do sound great. However, I've sold them and converted completely to Stax now which suit me better. 

 Yes, those clamps are from Sennheisers. They works very well. Still using now for quick placement of my headphones._

 

Hey, Cal. You sold all your dynamic 'phones and equipment?

 Now that's decisive!

 I reviewed the Stax site, and this "system" (HP + driver) caught my eye:Stax SRS-007 MkII Headphones w/ SRM-727 Mk 2 Driver - Silver 

 It's advertised for $4000.

 Question: Is this considered the top of the line for SS?


----------



## alcyst

SR-007Mk2 and SRM-007tII are the top end for Stax, AKA the Omega sytem. The limited edition SRM 600 seems to be higher end than the SRM-007tII? 

 Though there are plenty (some?) here who believe the Stax amps are wretched and only a RSA or Woo amp will do justice. Not sure if I am saying this tongue in cheek or not.

 Have a look at the Stax thread, it's in Main Forum/High End Forum.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alcyst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SR-007Mk2 and SRM-007tII are the top end for Stax, AKA the Omega sytem. The limited edition SRM 600 seems to be higher end than the SRM-007tII? 

 Though there are plenty (some?) here who believe the Stax amps are wretched and only a RSA or Woo amp will do justice. Not sure if I am saying this tongue in cheek or not.

 Have a look at the Stax thread, it's in Main Forum/High End Forum._

 

Thanks, alcyst. Will do.


----------



## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, Cal. You sold all your dynamic 'phones and equipment?

 Now that's decisive!

 I reviewed the Stax site, and this "system" (HP + driver) caught my eye:Stax SRS-007 MkII Headphones w/ SRM-727 Mk 2 Driver - Silver 

 It's advertised for $4000.

 Question: Is this considered the top of the line for SS?_

 

Hi Feifan.

 Yes, sold all my dynamic system after neglecting them for some time. A tough decision for me. Left only Stax now. 

 You might want to look for the old O2Mk1 and 717. They cost less in used condition and most prefer them to the new version. Unless you prefer a more forward sound then the O2Mk2 will be more suitable. As for amp made by Stax, T2 and 717 are so far the better ones. Or you can also consider those custom amp from Woo and Headamp. There's many choice to choose from.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Feifan.

 Yes, sold all my dynamic system after neglecting them for some time. A tough decision for me. Left only Stax now. 

 You might want to look for the old O2Mk1 and 717. They cost less in used condition and most prefer them to the new version. Unless you prefer a more forward sound then the O2Mk2 will be more suitable. As for amp made by Stax, T2 and 717 are so far the better ones. Or you can also consider those custom amp from Woo and Headamp. There's many choice to choose from._

 

Thanks, Cal. Good to have you "out front" for the rest of us, testing the waters, as they say. My next steps will be toward better balanced gear and, now, Stax. I hope you'll be able to do a comprehensive review of your Stax rig so that we, Phonitor/Auditor folks, can get an idea of what appears to be the next step. I'm enjoying my Phonitor-HD800 lineup right now, but I'll definitely be on the lookout for the old O2Mk1 and 717. I'm faced with the usual doubts re new equipment: go for the gold and get the better equipment from the get go or take granny steps and begin with mid-fi and gradually work up. Regardless, I'm glad we have so many options re quality head-fi gear.


----------



## ical

No problem bro, good stuff are meant to share. Right now, I'm too busy enjoying my music out of Stax than to write about it. In short, it's realistic, musical and affectionally. It's presentation is none that I heard of from any dynamic system. However, Stax is not for everyone so best to audition before jumping into it. It might sound too warm or dark to some. So let your ears be the judge. 

 My advice to save up and go for the next big step. No point upgrading slowly which will cost more in a long run. Audition to make sure you know what you want and not going in circle. I'm glad that I've settled for Stax.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem bro, good stuff are meant to share. Right now, I'm too busy enjoying my music out of Stax than to write about it. In short, it's realistic, musical and affectionally. It's presentation is none that I heard of from any dynamic system. However, Stax is not for everyone so best to audition before jumping into it. It might sound too warm or dark to some. So let your ears be the judge. 

 My advice to save up and go for the next big step. No point upgrading slowly which will cost more in a long run. Audition to make sure you know what you want and not going in circle. I'm glad that I've settled for Stax._

 

Thanks, Cal. Makes sense. Also, I'll try to audition Stax gear when I have a chance. "Warm" and "dark" for Stax -- I didn't expect that.


----------



## MikeLa

I just purchased an Auditor and was wondering if any of the Phonitor/Auditor owners felt there was a burn in period? If yes how long?

 thanks


----------



## SteveM324

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeLa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just purchased an Auditor and was wondering if any of the Phonitor/Auditor owners felt there was a burn in period? If yes how long?

 thanks_

 

I definitely feel that my Phonitor got better with burn in. I would say that it was not fully burned in at 200 hrs. The bass seemed to get deeper after about 400 hrs. If you want to speed up the burn in period, plug a headphone into your Auditor and run music 24/7 for about 2-3 weeks. Some people use pink noise but I don't think its necessary. Definitely enjoy listening to it during the burn in period but understand that it gets better.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I feedback on whether to trade off my Maxxed WA6SE for a Phonitor... Please guide me..


----------



## AmanGeorge

If you're enjoying the tube lushness and don't want to lose it, don't make the trade. I really like the Auditor I have, but it's definitely a solid-state amp - extremely transparent and clean - and a top-notch one at that, with no trace of harshness anywhere. But it still doesn't have the lushness, slight warmth, and expansive soundstage of a great tube amp.


----------



## SteveM324

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AmanGeorge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you're enjoying the tube lushness and don't want to lose it, don't make the trade. I really like the Auditor I have, but it's definitely a solid-state amp - extremely transparent and clean - and a top-notch one at that, with no trace of harshness anywhere. But it still doesn't have the lushness, slight warmth, and expansive soundstage of a great tube amp._

 

I just got my HE-5 today and the Phonitor/HE-5 combo sounds pretty lush to me. Actually it sounds fantastic and it's a great complement to the Phonitor/HD800 sound. My Phonitor has no trouble at all driving the HE-5. This combo has great bass and the midrange has a natural warmth and the highs are not fatiguing at all. I do like tubes and I should be getting my Zana Deux SE (to replace the Raptor that I sold a few weeks ago) on Thursday, but I have no plans to sell the Phonitor. As far as SS goes, it doesn't get much better than the Phonitor.


----------



## SteveM324

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Cal. Good to have you "out front" for the rest of us, testing the waters, as they say. My next steps will be toward better balanced gear and, now, Stax. I hope you'll be able to do a comprehensive review of your Stax rig so that we, Phonitor/Auditor folks, can get an idea of what appears to be the next step. I'm enjoying my Phonitor-HD800 lineup right now, but I'll definitely be on the lookout for the old O2Mk1 and 717. I'm faced with the usual doubts re new equipment: go for the gold and get the better equipment from the get go or take granny steps and begin with mid-fi and gradually work up. Regardless, I'm glad we have so many options re quality head-fi gear._

 

I'm not ready to jump on the electrostat bandwagon. A lot of my listening is to classic rock and that genre is not Stax's forte. Besides I'm having way to much fun with all the great headphones that have come out this year including the HE-5 and HD800 and the T1 is not far behind. With electrostats, you're pretty much stuck with one or maybe two cans and the sound that they reproduce. I would never sell off all my dynamic can setup for an electrostat system. I might add an electrostat system in the future, but only in addition to what I have now.


----------



## omigawsh_lollercoaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SteveM324* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my HE-5 today and the Phonitor/HE-5 combo sounds pretty lush to me. Actually it sounds fantastic and it's a great complement to the Phonitor/HD800 sound. My Phonitor has no trouble at all driving the HE-5. This combo has great bass and the midrange has a natural warmth and the highs are not fatiguing at all. I do like tubes and I should be getting my Zana Deux SE (to replace the Raptor that I sold a few weeks ago) on Thursday, but I have no plans to sell the Phonitor. As far as SS goes, it doesn't get much better than the Phonitor._

 

More in depth comparison of the 800 & HE5 on Phonitor?


----------



## MikeLa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SteveM324* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I definitely feel that my Phonitor got better with burn in. I would say that it was not fully burned in at 200 hrs. The bass seemed to get deeper after about 400 hrs. If you want to speed up the burn in period, plug a headphone into your Auditor and run music 24/7 for about 2-3 weeks. Some people use pink noise but I don't think its necessary. Definitely enjoy listening to it during the burn in period but understand that it gets better._

 

Thanks SteveM324, I noticed quite a difference after the first 48 hours, things are starting to settle down.


----------



## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Cal. Makes sense. Also, I'll try to audition Stax gear when I have a chance. "Warm" and "dark" for Stax -- I didn't expect that._

 

Haha! That's what some of the guys said during the meet when they heard the O2Mk1. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeLa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just purchased an Auditor and was wondering if any of the Phonitor/Auditor owners felt there was a burn in period? If yes how long?

 thanks_

 

My previous Phonitor settled down after 200 hours. Using Isotek Full System Enhancer CD to burn in during the day while listening at nite. Since it's a solid state amp, I keep it on 24/7, and off once a week.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feedback on whether to trade off my Maxxed WA6SE for a Phonitor... Please guide me.._

 

Best if you can audition. Though Phonitor is smooth, it's still sound like state state amp. It doesn't have the lush of tube but what you get is detail, speed and transparency.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Based on the inputs, I will stay with the tube amp instead... I love the lushness of the WA6SE...


----------



## SteveM324

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omigawsh_lollercoaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More in depth comparison of the 800 & HE5 on Phonitor? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I really can't give an in depth comparison because I've only had the HE-5 for a day now. Also, the HE-5 is not fully burned in (I'm not sure how many hrs it takes to settle in but I assume its more than the 20hrs that I have on them now). I can only give my initial impressions. The HE-5 has a warmer and fuller body sound but its soundstage is not as large and speaker like as the HD800 (that is something I really like about the HD800). The HE-5 has better bass than the HD800. By that I mean that it is very extended, tight and well balanced. The bass on the HE-5 doesn't intrude of the midrange like some cans such as the HD650, D5000 and ED9. At this point, it's too early to tell which I like better. Perhaps in a few weeks I can add to this comparison but for now that is all that I can offer.


----------



## ical

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Based on the inputs, I will stay with the tube amp instead... I love the lushness of the WA6SE..._

 

I'm also a tube person. Previously own a Yamamoto HA-02. But after hearing the Phonitor, I'm most willing to compromise the warmness and lushness of tube.


----------



## omigawsh_lollercoaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SteveM324* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really can't give an in depth comparison because I've only had the HE-5 for a day now._

 

Doh! My bad, I got carried away by my curiosity about orthos! Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also a tube person. Previously own a Yamamoto HA-02. But after hearing the Phonitor, I'm most willing to compromise the warmness and lushness of tube._

 

When I listened SE to both, I listened to Phonitor sometimes and wondered why I even had another amp, but I still liked both. Now I have balanced HP cables for tube listening and it's way better than SE but I still LOVE the Phonitor even on SE.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feedback on whether to trade off my Maxxed WA6SE for a Phonitor... Please guide me.._

 

I was about to agree with AmanGeorge -- until I read SteveM324's comment below.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SteveM324* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my HE-5 today and the Phonitor/HE-5 combo sounds pretty lush to me. Actually it sounds fantastic and it's a great complement to the Phonitor/HD800 sound. My Phonitor has no trouble at all driving the HE-5. This combo has great bass and the midrange has a natural warmth and the highs are not fatiguing at all. I do like tubes and I should be getting my Zana Deux SE (to replace the Raptor that I sold a few weeks ago) on Thursday, but I have no plans to sell the Phonitor. As far as SS goes, it doesn't get much better than the Phonitor._

 

I'd like to hear more on your HE-5 and Zana Deux SE in relation to Phonitor and HD800.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SteveM324* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not ready to jump on the electrostat bandwagon. A lot of my listening is to classic rock and that genre is not Stax's forte. Besides I'm having way to much fun with all the great headphones that have come out this year including the HE-5 and HD800 and the T1 is not far behind. With electrostats, you're pretty much stuck with one or maybe two cans and the sound that they reproduce. I would never sell off all my dynamic can setup for an electrostat system. I might add an electrostat system in the future, but only in addition to what I have now._

 

I have a feeling this will be my experience, too. Thanks for verbalizing this.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omigawsh_lollercoaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More in depth comparison of the 800 & HE5 on Phonitor? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

x2


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also a tube person. Previously own a Yamamoto HA-02. But after hearing the Phonitor, I'm most willing to compromise the warmness and lushness of tube._

 

x2. I enjoyed my initial experience with an entry-level tube amp, but tubes just don't fit into my work and listening environment. The heat, fragility, and stacking issues make SS the better alternative for me. I agree that the liquid warmth of tubes is fabulous, but I get a lot of that with the GS1K in SS rigs. For me, the Phonitor gives the accuracy that I crave. However, when I want to kick back and just have fun, I turn to warmer setups.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omigawsh_lollercoaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I listened SE to both, I listened to Phonitor sometimes and wondered why I even had another amp, but I still liked both. Now I have balanced HP cables for tube listening and it's way better than SE but I still LOVE the Phonitor even on SE._

 

My balanced amp is SS and the SQ for the balanced HD800 and HD650 are fabulous. But like you, I still can't get enough of the Phonitor-HD800 combo.


----------



## SteveM324

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was about to agree with AmanGeorge -- until I read SteveM324's comment below.


 I'd like to hear more on your HE-5 and Zana Deux SE in relation to Phonitor and HD800.




 I have a feeling this will be my experience, too. Thanks for verbalizing this.


 x2_

 

You won't have to wait long, the Zana Deux will be arriving tomorrow!


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SteveM324* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You won't have to wait long, the Zana Deux will be arriving tomorrow!_

 

Keep us posted, Steve! BTW, how long was the wait.


----------



## Sceptre

It took about a year of wanting before I got my Phonitor.

 This one doesn't have a serial number. It came from Germany and apparently is one of the first three pre production units. Metal 'handles', flashing sig lights etc.

 Everything about the amp is as expected except for a slight mains hum. I shall play with earth loops over the weekend. Noticeable even with the inputs disconnected. Any better thoughts?

 This amp really tames the Ed9 and couples well with JH13s too. A birthday present for myself and a real performer. The c/f circuitry will obviously make some purists wince, but the effect and pleasure it brings is magnificent.

 I'm currently enjoying settings of cf 3, 55 degrees, -0.6 centre.

 Can this amp melt welding rods too?

 Regards

 Sceptre


----------



## SteveM324

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sceptre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ The c/f circuitry will obviously make some purists wince, but the effect and pleasure it brings is magnificent.

 I'm currently enjoying settings of cf 3, 55 degrees, -0.6 centre.

 Can this amp melt welding rods too?

 Regards

 Sceptre_

 

I agree the crossfeed circuitry is very useful and I always have it on. It is the first crossfeed circuit that doesn't reduce dynamics or soften the high frequencies. I use cf3, 30 degrees and I vary the center level from -1.6 to -.9 depending on the headphone being used and the recording. I find changing the center level is useful for controlling the vocal balance.

 Have you tried the D7000 with the Phonitor? I really like that combo for live rock.


----------



## MarkyMark

I have the Auditor, S/N is 9101044. It's primarily linked to a Benchmark DAC1 via LAT IC-300 Signature XLR interconnects. Btw, I have also used the Cardas RCA to XLR adapters with unbalanced interconnects and find those work excellently. 

 The Auditor sounds best driving the HD800's. It's just "OK" with the K701's (sorry Acix 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I actually prefer to listen to the K701's from a Heed Canamp in my home office as they have nice synergy. 

 I don't listen much to my Markl D5000's nowadays but I found the bass to be a bit overpowering from the Auditor, albeit very well controlled. The Sugden Headmaster is a better match ime - it drives low impedance loads well and is a bit bass-light.

 Cheers


----------



## Markj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sceptre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It took about a year of wanting before I got my Phonitor.

 This one doesn't have a serial number. It came from Germany and apparently is one of the first three pre production units. Metal 'handles', flashing sig lights etc.

 Everything about the amp is as expected except for a slight mains hum. I shall play with earth loops over the weekend. Noticeable even with the inputs disconnected. Any better thoughts?

 This amp really tames the Ed9 and couples well with JH13s too. A birthday present for myself and a real performer. The c/f circuitry will obviously make some purists wince, but the effect and pleasure it brings is magnificent.

 I'm currently enjoying settings of cf 3, 55 degrees, -0.6 centre.

 Can this amp melt welding rods too?

 Regards

 Sceptre_

 

I had hum with Edition9 on my Phonitor also. Spl service check it and said it is design for 600Ohm. With T1 is totaly quiet, with Edition8 it is same as E9 with PRO900 is little better. I even have Furman ballanced power and it does not help. Since then I found that lots of headphone amps are noisy with low OHM headphones. I am looking for best cheap amp for Edition8.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sceptre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It took about a year of wanting before I got my Phonitor.

 This one doesn't have a serial number. It came from Germany and apparently is one of the first three pre production units. Metal 'handles', flashing sig lights etc.

 Everything about the amp is as expected except for a slight mains hum. I shall play with earth loops over the weekend. Noticeable even with the inputs disconnected. Any better thoughts?

 This amp really tames the Ed9 and couples well with JH13s too. A birthday present for myself and a real performer. The c/f circuitry will obviously make some purists wince, but the effect and pleasure it brings is magnificent.

 I'm currently enjoying settings of cf 3, 55 degrees, -0.6 centre.

 Can this amp melt welding rods too?

 Regards

 Sceptre_

 

Thanks, Sceptre. Added to list of Phonitor/Auditor owners in OP.


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MarkyMark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the Auditor, S/N is 9101044. It's primarily linked to a Benchmark DAC1 via LAT IC-300 Signature XLR interconnects. Btw, I have also used the Cardas RCA to XLR adapters with unbalanced interconnects and find those work excellently. 

 The Auditor sounds best driving the HD800's. It's just "OK" with the K701's (sorry Acix 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). I actually prefer to listen to the K701's from a Heed Canamp in my home office as they have nice synergy. 

 I don't listen much to my Markl D5000's nowadays but I found the bass to be a bit overpowering from the Auditor, albeit very well controlled. The Sugden Headmaster is a better match ime - it drives low impedance loads well and is a bit bass-light.

 Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, MarkyMark. I added you to the list of owners in the OP. 

  Quote:


 The Auditor sounds best driving the HD800's. It's just "OK" with the K701's. 
 

x2


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omigawsh_lollercoaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doh! My bad, I got carried away by my curiosity about orthos! Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I listened SE to both, I listened to Phonitor sometimes and wondered why I even had another amp, but I still liked both. Now I have balanced HP cables for tube listening and it's way better than SE but I still LOVE the Phonitor even on SE.





_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Markj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had hum with Edition9 on my Phonitor also. Spl service check it and said it is design for 600Ohm. With T1 is totaly quiet, with Edition8 it is same as E9 with PRO900 is little better. I even have Furman ballanced power and it does not help. Since then I found that lots of headphone amps are noisy with low OHM headphones. I am looking for best cheap amp for Edition8._

 

omigawsh_lollercoaster and Markj -- I added your names to the list of owners in the OP.


----------



## soberspine

from what i read phonitor is better than Linear black cube and i can assume the auditor is better too.
 But did anyone compared auditor/phonitor with Violectric V200 ?


----------



## MarkyMark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soberspine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_from what i read phonitor is better than Linear black cube and i can assume the auditor is better too.
 But did anyone compared auditor/phonitor with Violectric V200 ?_

 

I would have very much liked to do that comparison but Violectric have no dealers here in the UK. The only way would have been to buy both amps from Thomann.de and use their 30-day return policy. 

 In the end, the Auditor was available for me for about 150-200 euros cheaper than the V200 so I went with that, also it had good feedback on here. Not enough is known about the Violectric gear, although the limited feedback it has seems good.

 Personally, I think Violectric should have ditched the DAC section on the V200 as it isn't top spec and is adding unnecessary cost the unit.

 Cheers.


----------



## MarkyMark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Markj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had hum with Edition9 on my Phonitor also. Spl service check it and said it is design for 600Ohm. With T1 is totaly quiet, with Edition8 it is same as E9 with PRO900 is little better. I even have Furman ballanced power and it does not help. Since then I found that lots of headphone amps are noisy with low OHM headphones. I am looking for best cheap amp for Edition8._

 

Interesting comments from Markj and Sceptre. 

 My Auditor is deathly quiet at max volume, with no detectable hiss or hum on either HD800 or Denon D5000 (25 ohms). So I wonder why quite a few people are having trouble with noise (I saw some comments from AmanGeorge about this). 

 Are people using XLR cables or RCA-XLR adapters? Maybe that has something to do with it?

 Cheers


----------



## feifan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MarkyMark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting comments from Markj and Sceptre. 

 My Auditor is deathly quiet at max volume, with no detectable hiss or hum on either HD800 or Denon D5000 (25 ohms). So I wonder why quite a few people are having trouble with noise (I saw some comments from AmanGeorge about this). 

 Are people using XLR cables or RCA-XLR adapters? Maybe that has something to do with it?

 Cheers_

 

Wonder x2. My Phonitor is "deathly quiet" at all levels too.


----------



## CafeNoir

Hello,

 Maybe I can share with you my experience in that regards. 
 I had bought a SPL Auditor which presented some noise, whether the inputs were connected or not. It was not a hum, though, but rather a buzz, which was noticeable at both low volume and high volume, bur strangely desappeared with the volume knob set at around 3 o'clock. It was hardly audible through the hd-650, but very noticeable with lower impedance phones (say, 50ohms). I contacted someone that had the same problem. It turned out it was the same unit (he returned it to Thomann, they resold it, and I bought it back!). He told me that now his new unit is dead quiet. I sent back mine, and I am waiting for a new one, hoping it will be quiet too.

 I think the assumption we can make is there might be some defective units presenting this buzzing issue. If you have the same symptoms as I described, you probably have a flawed amp.
 I will tell you more as soon as I receive my new unit.


----------



## SleepyOne

Thanks for letting us know there is a faulty unit floating around in Thomann! Finger crossed on your new unit.


----------



## Sceptre

My hum / buzz was quickly sorted with some cable routing and isolation. It was getting in the chassis from a nearby source i.e, with no input connectors on.

 Looking forward to a mini meet to compare the Phonitor and Auditor though !!

 Regards

 Sceptre


----------



## abyrvalg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feifan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wonder x2. My Phonitor is "deathly quiet" at all levels too._

 

Same here. Phonitor + Edition 8 - no hum, no noice, nothing, just pure music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those of you experiencing hum\buzz: try ground lift button on the back. I remember in one position it was buzzing\humming, in another - quiet. Most likely those who experience hum, have ground loop problem, and should sort it out with a proper cabling or at least ground lift switch at the back.


----------



## soberspine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CaféNoir* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 Maybe I can share with you my experience in that regards. 
 I had bought a SPL Auditor which presented some noise, whether the inputs were connected or not. It was not a hum, though, but rather a buzz, which was noticeable at both low volume and high volume, bur strangely desappeared with the volume knob set at around 3 o'clock. It was hardly audible through the hd-650, but very noticeable with lower impedance phones (say, 50ohms). I contacted someone that had the same problem. It turned out it was the same unit (he returned it to Thomann, they resold it, and I bought it back!). He told me that now his new unit is dead quiet. I sent back mine, and I am waiting for a new one, hoping it will be quiet too.

 I think the assumption we can make is there might be some defective units presenting this buzzing issue. If you have the same symptoms as I described, you probably have a flawed amp.
 I will tell you more as soon as I receive my new unit._

 

Thomann considered the returned unit has no problem so they resold it to you or they repaired it and resold it? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MarkyMark* 
_I would have very much liked to do that comparison but Violectric have no dealers here in the UK. The only way would have been to buy both amps from Thomann.de and use their 30-day return policy. 

 In the end, the Auditor was available for me for about 150-200 euros cheaper than the V200 so I went with that, also it had good feedback on here. Not enough is known about the Violectric gear, although the limited feedback it has seems good.

 Personally, I think Violectric should have ditched the DAC section on the V200 as it isn't top spec and is adding unnecessary cost the unit._

 

Maybe a german headfier can answer by translating some german forums. There must be a comparison. google translate doesn't help. I also don't see the point of the usb dac.


----------



## feifan

CaféNoir and abyrvalg -- I added your Auditor andPhonitor to the list in the OP.


----------



## CafeNoir

Just to clarify something: My Auditor came from B stock, so it is not that scandalous (but still not acceptable since B-stock are supposed to work flawlessly). Anyway, relax, the faulty unit will not land on your hands if you buy A stock (I guess...)


----------



## AppleheadMay

Just got my Phonitor 2730B with SN 9310032 and since I haven't seen a pic of one of these on HF and only found one on the web I thought I'd post one here. This is the home version iso the pro version, it's exactly the same except for a black faceplate and no handles.
  Looks like a beauty to me and with all the switches a real toy for boys! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Since it hasn't been burned in yet I won't talk about how it sounds. Anyway I have only heard it for half an hour.
  So, please excuse me now, I got a new toy to play with!


----------



## ical

Beautiful amp in black. I do miss my Phonitor at times. Love it's look.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I see you have only kept your electrostatic amps. Do you find them so much better than dynamic cans?
  I ask because I'm waiting for my 717 + O2MkI. I only heard the O2's briefly in the store but they needed new pads.


----------



## .Sup

Looks very nice applehead. How much did it cost?


----------



## AppleheadMay

I paid 1450€ for it but it usually costs 1699€ in stores here. I got it straight from the distributor.
  Price is the same as for the silver version.


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





appleheadmay said:


> I paid 1450€ for it but it usually costs 1699€ in stores here. I got it straight from the distributor.
> Price is the same as for the silver version.


 

 Thank you very much for this info, I thought to myself I should have gotten the one you have but now I see its way too expensive for me. I was thinking its priced lower than the silver version. I would like to play with its control settings though. Enjoy yours


----------



## AppleheadMay

The effect of the crossfeed settings is really subtle, don't expect anything like what you can accomplish with an equalizer. That's actually a good thing, you can't ruin the sound with it. But I haven't tinkered with it long enough to say more and there is quite a lot of more useful info in this thread and on the forum about the controls.
  If you can do without the controls however there is the Auditor at half the price which should have the same sound.
  And from what I heard from mine so far the Phonitor/Auditor is quite a class act. Still needs burn in though, I have maybe 6 or 7 hours on it.


----------



## khaos974

How's the crossfeed? For exemple compared to a VST plugin like Isone Pro.


----------



## feifan

AppleheadMay and .Sup -- I added you to the list in the OP.
   
  Applehead, thanks for the photo of the Phonitor 2730B. It looks awesome. Any word on the differences between the 2730 and 2730B?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thanks feifan.
   
  According to the Belgian distributor the 2730 and 2730B are exactly the same amps.
  The only difference is cosmetic: a silver faceplate with handles for the 2730 and a black one without handles for the 2730B.
  They call the 2730 the Pro model and 2730B the High-End model.
  He assured me that there were no technical differences.
   
  I have to say, even after little burn in (about 35 hours now, give or take a few) that this amp really amazes me.
  It has the power and authority to control your phones well of course but the thing that really got me sold from the first minute on is its naturalness.
  By that I mean it gives a certain warmth (if I dare call it that) to the sound that prevents it from sounding analytical.
  I was a bit afraid when I bought it that I would find it overly analytical, but it is far from it. And no it's not colored.
   
  As to crossfeed, I really want it to burn in first so I know its sound well without crossfeed before I continue experimenting with that.
  I did tinker a bit with it though, and though the results were good I think I might prefer it without, but since it's there it may come in handy at times.
  I get the feeling though that crossfeed shouldn't be used with more commercial material that is poorly mixed.
  But these are just early findings.


----------



## crypt@

It is refreshing how different the Phonitor looks in a flat black face plate and minus the handles.
   
  I have seen a couple of Phonitors with different coloured backlit VU meters, as well as without signal and overload LEDs built in. I wonder why SPL has made the changes?


----------



## ical

Quote: 





appleheadmay said:


> I see you have only kept your electrostatic amps. Do you find them so much better than dynamic cans?
> I ask because I'm waiting for my 717 + O2MkI. I only heard the O2's briefly in the store but they needed new pads.


 

 My preference is still towards Stax which is why I sold all my dynamics. To me, it just sound better in every way.
   
  Do note that the condition of O2mk1 ear pads play a very important role as it doesn't affect how it's sound. Replace a new one if you can. 
   
  Sorry for OT.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yep, I had trouble with the worn pads but the dealer agreed to put on new pads and a new headband.
  I also ordered extra MkII pads and a headband.
  As I heard the MkII pads should make the MkI sound just as fine with a bit more bass extension.
   
  Going to pick up the deal Saturday. By then my amp should have arrived too as customs informed me.
  The wait ... the terrible agonizing wait ...


----------



## Sceptre

Just put together a new source for the Phonitor.
   
  iRiver H140 to Sonosax SX DA-2 DAC using balanced out to Phonitor.
   
  One word - Bliss.
   
  Regards
   
  Sceptre


----------



## feifan

Sceptre, thanks for the intro to the Sonosax SX-DA2. Looks like the Sonosax folks are discontinuing it. A shame. It'll probably drive the price sky high. I found some photos on the web. The shots aren't the greatest, but they give us an idea of what the SX-DA2 looks like. How would you compare it to some of the more popular DACs in Head-Fi?


----------



## feifan

AppleheadMay: Thanks for the clarification re the new faceplate. Good to know it's only cosmetic. Re crosstalk off -- I'll have to try it.
   
  Cal: I've decided to follow your advice and wait until I can afford a good quality STAX rig. In the meantime, I'm still enjoying dynamics. In my case, ignorance may be bliss. LOL!

 crypt@: "It is refreshing how different the Phonitor looks in a flat black face plate and minus the handles. I have seen a couple of Phonitors with different coloured backlit VU meters, as well as without signal and overload LEDs built in. I wonder why SPL has made the changes?"
   
  Crypt, I'm wondering, too. It'd be great if we could swap them out whenever we feel like it. I really like the professional look and feel. For SS-SE, I still think it's the best pro and audiophile amp for accuracy, dynamics, and speed. For soundstage, it's without equal.


----------



## crypt@

I would hope the changes are cosmetic than because of functionality. I won't be surprised by the thought that some _audiophiles_ may find the blinking lights to be too distracting (... what?!)
   
  I personally prefer the warmer orange glow with those ever flickering LEDs...
   
  A black face plate would fit in nicely with my kit, but those handles are more functional than one may think; beside being useful as handles, they are excellent at protecting the volume control.


----------



## abyrvalg

Quote:


feifan said:


> Sceptre, thanks for the intro to the Sonosax SX-DA2. Looks like the Sonosax folks are discontinuing it. A shame. It'll probably drive the price sky high. I found some photos on the web. The shots aren't the greatest, but they give us an idea of what the SX-DA2 looks like. How would you compare it to some of the more popular DACs in Head-Fi?


 
   
  I believe Sceptre is about to publish his review of Sonosax, and I will follow with my own impressions and snapshots.


----------



## Jian

After A/B ing auditor and phonitor, really felt the SQ difference is quite big.I guess I'll be buying the phonitor. Problem is the local dealer only have the black ones, but I do love the old look.


----------



## .Sup

Thanks for adding me to the list! We've seen silver Phonitor, black Phonitor, silver Auditor but no black Auditor? Well here it is:


----------



## AppleheadMay

Nice on Sup! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It looks better as well.


----------



## feifan

abyrvalg: Looking forward to your and Sceptre's review of the Sonosax DAC!

 Jian: Keep us posted on your Phonitor order! It's great that you got to audition both the Phonitor and Auditor. The A/B difference that you're hearing between the two may be due to the speaker angle/position variations in the Phonitor rather than actual amp differences. Most who've compared the two say they are pretty much identical in terms of the internal build and sound.

 .Sup: Thanks for the photo of the black Auditor. It does look awesome. The Ed 8s look mighty tempting paired with the SPL amps. I've never tried the 8s, but I'm guessing that they add a bass dimension that's missing with more neutral cans.


----------



## Jian

Hi feifan, when I did the A/B, I made sure that all effect were switched off on the phonitor. The difference was big, but the whole feeling you can tell straight was that these two amps are from a same origin. I don't know if it was because of my system setup, but god my ALO CM ED8 sounded soooo great on phonitor, and I'm putting the order this weekend. If I can't find the old looking ones, I'll go foe the blacks, can't wait any more.


----------



## ical

Quote: 





feifan said:


> Cal: I've decided to follow your advice and wait until I can afford a good quality STAX rig. In the meantime, I'm still enjoying dynamics. In my case, ignorance may be bliss. LOL!


 

 The Phonitor is still an excellent amp. Take your time in your upgrade path and enjoy what you've now.


----------



## feifan

Quote: 





jian said:


> Hi feifan, when I did the A/B, I made sure that all effect were switched off on the phonitor. The difference was big, but the whole feeling you can tell straight was that these two amps are from a same origin. I don't know if it was because of my system setup, but god my ALO CM ED8 sounded soooo great on phonitor, and I'm putting the order this weekend. If I can't find the old looking ones, I'll go foe the blacks, can't wait any more.


 

 Thanks for the clarification, Jian! I like the looks of the ED8. Any difference between the original color and the black -- besides cosmetic?

  
  Quote: 





ical said:


> The Phonitor is still an excellent amp. Take your time in your upgrade path and enjoy what you've now.


 
  It's a win-win proposition all-around when head-fiers get into the range of decent equipment. Still, so many long-time head-fiers are moving toward electrostatics that those who are sitting on the fencepost must be at least considering them.
   
  The one thing that's holding me back -- besides a thin wallet -- from jumping right in is the apparent preference for tube versions of Stax amps. I prefer SS for a number of reasons so the possibility that Stax SS may be a bit inferior concerns me.


----------



## oqvist

91010114 Auditor checking in.
   
  It certainly is huuge... At least 3x a Heed Canamp which also have internal power.
   
  headphones see sig plus T1 and soon LCD-2.


----------



## feifan

oqvist, thanx for checking in. i've added your auditor to the op.
   
  you make an interesting comment about size. i started off with all-in-ones like the hr desktop because my desktop space is cramped. but in my quest for better sq, i kept bumping up size to the point where my rig no longer fits on my desktop. i guess quality sound comes with a price -- size.
   
  keep us posted on your journey with the auditor.


----------



## oqvist

Have you seen any internal pictures of it?
   
  I have tested most of my headphones on it. One issue I have with it is that pannings left to right can be a bit odd like it´s not a smooth transition.
  Maybe a result of an overall wider soundstage then I am used to dunno.
   
  I also wonder manual say something about having the vol pot at zero would give the most neutral signature? Do you lower the signal from the transport to the DAC so you can run the Phonitor at Zero or max signal to DAC and lower signal to the Auditor/Phonitor?


----------



## oqvist

The resolution on this amp is really something extra... I have a binaural recording from Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra. Saint Saëns symphony nr 3.
  Listening to my DX 1000 for a change. You hear people caughing all over the place like 30 metres away! Make you wonder why they saved this take. Soundstaging is amazing. Old comparison but yes kind of speaker like which was one of the goals with the DX 1000 I have been told. The small detail stand up to the point it can be annoying as in this case. You don´t just hear coughing you hear cloth rubbing against skin, people moving around in the chairs, putting down their instruments!. At the same time there is so little dirt or distortion the amp can sound almost over naturally clean at times. Even on the DX 1000 which is designed to sound all but cold or lean. Quite a contradiction actually. DX 1000 on many systems get quite bass centric but not on this one.Thankfully I do have a LFE and it really helps compensating a bit with feeling the music and better replicating speaker dynamics.
   
  Dynamics are also something extra... the difference between pianissimo and fortissimo is greater then ever.


----------



## ical

Quote: 





feifan said:


> It's a win-win proposition all-around when head-fiers get into the range of decent equipment. Still, so many long-time head-fiers are moving toward electrostatics that those who are sitting on the fencepost must be at least considering them.
> 
> The one thing that's holding me back -- besides a thin wallet -- from jumping right in is the apparent preference for tube versions of Stax amps. I prefer SS for a number of reasons so the possibility that Stax SS may be a bit inferior concerns me.


 
  If you like SS amp, then the Stax 717 will be ideal. It one of the better amp that can drive the O2 well. I'm still very happy with mine.


----------



## vvanrij

I still love the phonitor, after I got it I stopped upgrading, finally found what I was looking for. My SPL Phonitor + AKG K1000 are still a dream come true, and will probably stay with me for the rest of my life.
   
  Serial = 8300138
   
  I love the fact that combined with the k1000 I really really forget I'm listening to headphones after about 10mins. 
  My settings on it are
   
  Crossfeed 3
  Speaker Angle 40
  Center Level -0,9
   
  Question? Can those ears be removed in the front of the amp? I already mailed SPL about this, but didn't get a response yet.
   
  Setup:


----------



## AppleheadMay

Phonitor + K1000? I tried that myself, but apart from having way too low volume I also miss a lot of detail which I do get with my speaker amp.
  I love the K1000 as much as you do, it's my dream phone as well even when I compared it to an O2. But I think it needs a lot more power than the Phonitor can deliver. I have it hooked up to a Marantz PM7200KI for the time being but ordered a tube amp with speaker outputs for it.
   
  I bet you can remove the handles by taking the front panel (4 screws) off but you will notice your silver frontpanel has the corners cut off. You could probably order a replacement black panel from SPL, that one is made to be used without handles.


----------



## vvanrij

Thats very odd, mine has plenty of power on the K1000 (I play almost allways not past 50% of the volume). Also compared it with other amps, and the phonitor delivers much more detail on the K1000, and most surprising was the fact that the phonitor shows that the K1000 has indeed plenty of bass. The fact that it was underpowered in your setup probably means there was something wrong.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Odd indeed. And I can't imagine anything wrong since the Phonitor has plenty of power to drive any other phones I have. The K1000 lacks volume, detail and bass on any of my headphone amps (Pro-Ject, LD3, GCHA, Luxman P1-u and Phonitor) while they do fine on all my other cans. I just tried it again with the K1000 and Phonitor with the same result.
   
  I'd love to see some other people here that have both the Phonitor or Auditor and a K1000 try it and let us know the results.
   
  Did you by any chance try it on a speaker amp to hear the difference?


----------



## feifan

vvanrij, thanks for checking in! I added your Phonitor to the OP.
   
  Cool that you and AppleheadMay are able to test it with the K1000! Across the board, it seems the Phonitor/Auditor syncs nicely with quality 'phones. With good cans, these SPL amps seem to open up the music, separating and highlighting all the different instruments and voices. The dynamics are awesome, crystal clear in the softest passages yet balanced across the spectrum. With the Phonitor, the ability to futz with the direction/position of the sound source challenges the notion that good cans ought to mirror the stage-in-front presentation.
   
  Re the handles -- I haven't tried it, but, on each side, there are a couple of screws about an inch from the face, top and bottom, that seem to line up with the handles. You could try loosening these to see if the handles will jiggle.


----------



## suikodenii

Regardig Phonitor and K1000 here's what "fcklo" said about it in post #101 in the following thread:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/329765/spl-phonitor-new-reference-amp/90
   
  looked promising to me at the time but so far I didn't come across a decently prized K1K to try for myself yet....
   
   
  Quote: 





> K1000 through Phonitor   Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djork*
> ...


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thanks for the info suikodenii. All I can say is that this is not my experience at all, 12:30 o'clock is way below an acceptable listening volume on the Phonitor with the K1000 for me. I just plugged in some different sources to see if it would make a difference. While the volume does change a little with different sources it doesn't change enough to make it acceptable. It is fine with all my other cans though, on any cans I have 12 o'clockon the Phonitor is more than loud enough, sometimes even too loud.
   
  I wonder why so many people in the K1000 thread use higher powered amps if a normal headphone amp could do just as well.


----------



## vvanrij

What F. Lo wrote is just like my experience, 12 o'clock is well loud enough, and it is for me also the best (SS) amp I have tried with the K1000. Tried some tube amps as well, but haven't found a tube amp that is transparent enough to my liking. I can't write all those crazy things about dynamics and texture and stuff, because I'm really not that good at expressing all those things. All I can say is the Phonitor + K1000 is the best I have heard to date (which includes about anything, except the Orpheus, which might be better haha). @AppleheadMay the power the K1000 requires has not so much to do with the volume, if I plug it in directly into my Konnekt 8, the sound is also loud enough @ 12 o'clock. The k1000 needs alot of power to be able to produce decent bass and have a good dynamic range etc. voltage swing and that kind of guru.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yeah, but still it's strange. I tested a bit with 3 sources, 3 headphone amps and 3 phones just now, everything works as it should, except the K1000 which isn't loud enough on any on the headphone amps no matter what source. Maybe there is something wrong with the 1/4 jack to 4 pin xlr adaptor cable I have, I can't think of anything else. The K1000 sounds fine out of the speaker amp though.


----------



## vvanrij

Hmm yeah it sounds more like there is indeed something wrong with either the cable or the k1000 itself. Have you compared your k1000 with other k1000's? It would be weird if the cable was the problem, since its such a big difference, but all is possible in audio. If I were you I would take the time to investigate it though, like I said (and Flo discovered as well), its so far the best SS (and for me of any amp) I have tried with the K1000. Since you have em both in your posession, your missing out . The output of the Phonitor is about 1W right (depends on the impedance ofcourse, but I don't know what that is on the K1000)? That is plenty for the K1000 to be well loud.


----------



## suikodenii

Just one thought on this. Is it that you use 12:00 dial or close to it for most of your headphones? I have the PS DLIII as a source, which is known for providing a rather high output level when used in balanced mode. And with this is never get significantly over 08:00 dial (on top of my head I think this is -40dB setting on the Phonitor). That is even with the HD800 (300 Ohms) or the AKG701 which requires a bit more volume than most common cans. At 12:00 dial the volume would be unbearable by far in my set up I'd say, though I never tried it that far.
  So it might be that the output level of the source indeed has an impact here...


----------



## oqvist

What a blooper. The XLR adapter I had bought turned out to be utter garbage. Appears to be stainless steel does that actually work? If they wheren´t grounded I would get no audio right?. I got some double shielded cable with the amp and the sonics are just world class from top to bottom now.


----------



## AppleheadMay

@suikodenii
   
  Yes, I do use most cans around 12 o'clock on the Phonitor. Not the D7000 though.
  My source is a PS Audio Perfectwave Dac. I heard it has a higher output than most sources as well, especially on the XLR output.
   
  Maybe it's because I feed the dac with an airport express optical out which streams music from my iTunes library? (temporary solution until the Bridge is out) iTunes is on full volume though.


----------



## oqvist

My T1 is at -19. All my lower impedance headphones are slightly less then that. DAC19 as source. My Keces have about the same signal strength as well.


----------



## feifan

I'm feeding the Phonitor via Foobar2000 (WASAPI 24/96, volume maxed) > USB > Monitor 02 > coaxial > DLIII (stock) > balanced interconnects. These are the approximate volume levels I'm using with various cans:
   
  -21.5dB:  K701 and HD800
  -24.0dB: GS1K and HD650
  -30.0dB: Grado HF2
   
  12 o'clock is at -6.0 dB, and 9 o'clock is at -28.0dB so the levels I'm using hover at around 9 o'clock.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Forgot to post back here, I finally found the problem.
  I connect my dac via xlr to the Phonitor. From the Phonitor's output I use a xlr to rca cable (wired correctly per the manual) to go to an rca input on my Marantz amp. This halves the Phonitor's input both audibly and on the VU meters. As soon as I pull the cables out, I get full input again.
  Now the K1000 plays more than loud enough through the Phonitor. It plays well too, but it can't beat the 10W class A speaker output of my Luxman amp though. The sound is richer and fuller when the K1000 gets more power. As it probably should since these cans were meant to be wired to speaker outputs.


----------



## St3ve

Hi everyone,
   
  AppleheadMay's Phonitor has found a new home:
   

   

   

   
  Not a bad looking bit of kit.
   
  I absolutely love it. It really does make my HD800's shine, and the crossfeed system is fantastic. I have only had it just under a week or so, but I have been totally floored by the sound - everything sounds 'just right' to my ears. The crossfeed settings I am using are CF:4, SA: 75 and CL -1.2, and the imaging is superb.
   
  I intend to write some more detailed impressions later, but at this early stage I can honestly say that I love it.
   
  Edit: Not sure if the roll call is still active, but my Phonitor (2730B) is SN 9310032, my source is a Lavry DA11 and my cans are Senn HD800s. Oh, and I tend to set my volume at somewhere between -24 and -19 depending on how loud the music is mastered.


----------



## harj

Really nice amp.
  Got my Auditor yesterday to pair with my ps1000's.
  What source you using St3ve?


----------



## St3ve

Quote: 





harj said:


> Really nice amp.
> Got my Auditor yesterday to pair with my ps1000's.
> What source you using St3ve?


 
   
   
  Thanks Harj,
   
  Congrats on the Auditor - How does it sound with grados?
   
  My source is Lavry DA11 DAC being fed by optical from my Macbook Pro. The material itself is generally a mix of apple lossless, 320 mp3, 256 AAC and Spotify HQ.


----------



## Sceptre

That looks like 3 UK SPL users in a row.
   
  Just for the record, I am using three sources for my Phonitor.
  1  MacBook Pro via Firewire to Apogee Duet with Cardas RCA to XLR converter to Phonitor
  2  MBP via toslink to Sonosax SX DA-2 with Balanced out to Phonitor
  3  Cyrus DVD7 Q-Dac to RCA/XLR as above.
   
  Which do I prefer?  The Sonosax!
   
  Why?  I have never heard a DAC like it and the Phonitor laps up all it delivers.
   
  I'm an hour away from Nottingham if harj wants to give the Sonosax a try.
  Away for the next week in Liverpool though. Sonosax will work on it's own whilst away!
   
  Enjoy your Phonitor setups.
   
  Sceptre


----------



## groovizintheheart

Does anybody else find themselves constantly changing the cross-feed knob based on the music genre they listen to?  I have to change it to a smaller angle (22/30 deg) and increased crossfeed (5) for a more intimate upfront presentation when say I'm listening to small band, quartet or bossa nova.  If I'm listening to live concerts or a piano concerto per say where there is a lot of instrumentation I prefer to place myself further back and place the the angle at say 55 deg.  and set the crossfeed to 3.  For trance/electronic I turn it off altogether.


----------



## St3ve

Quote: 





groovizintheheart said:


> Does anybody else find themselves constantly changing the cross-feed knob based on the music genre they listen to?  I have to change it to a smaller angle (22/30 deg) and increased crossfeed (5) for a more intimate upfront presentation when say I'm listening to small band, quartet or bossa nova.  If I'm listening to live concerts or a piano concerto per say where there is a lot of instrumentation I prefer to place myself further back and place the the angle at say 55 deg.  and set the crossfeed to 3.  For trance/electronic I turn it off altogether.


 

 I actually tend to keep it set in more-or-less the same position (CF:4, SA: 75), but I do find myself tweaking the centre level setting (can't quite make my mind up on either -1.2 or -0.9). I guess I have just got really used to that presentation. I am absolutely loving having a solid centre image!
   
  I have had my phonitor for about a month now, and I love it. It really grips my HD800s, and has added a really pleasing 'weight' (for want of a better term) to the bass and low mids. The crossfeed is absolutely outstanding. I really want to try some other 'phones on it, and could do with some good closed jobbies - I am a bit gutted to see that the new Beyer T5p is 32 ohms, as I have heard that the phonitor is optimised for 600ohm. Anyone use their phonitor/auditor with low impedance 'phones?


----------



## RTF

Looks like an amazing amp. I'm a little confused though, whats the point of having balanced inputs when the hp out is se? Sorry if this has been asked already.


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





rtf said:


> Looks like an amazing amp. I'm a little confused though, whats the point of having balanced inputs when the hp out is se? Sorry if this has been asked already.


 

 I'm thinking because its made for studio monitoring (although the black one is made for hifi but still based on the original studio version), In studios longer length cables are used (if needed) and XLR provides longer lengths at no or much less signal loss (compared to unbalanced cables). 
   
   
  Congratz on the amps, both of you, I like that black version the most. Interesting how high you have your volume set, Steve. I have mine always at 8 o'clock, any higher than that and my ears start to hurt. Its probably because I don't have a crossfeed ->longer signal path or it could just be the crossfeed settings reduce the loudness.
   
  kindest regards, Peter


----------



## St3ve

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Congratz on the amps, both of you, I like that black version the most. Interesting how high you have your volume set, Steve. I have mine always at 8 o'clock, any higher than that and my ears start to hurt. Its probably because I don't have a crossfeed ->longer signal path or it could just be the crossfeed settings reduce the loudness.
> 
> kindest regards, Peter


 


 Thanks Peter, She's a Beaut. It's interesting what you say about the volume; the Auditor must output louder than the Phonitor, probably for the reasons you mentioned. Generally where I have mine set (between -24 and -19) tends to output around the 75-80db mark, which is the volume I tend to listen at. 8 o'clock is much quieter than I would generally listen at (according to my iPhone SPL meter app that seems to amount to ~60db), certainly not ear-hurt territory for me.
   
   
  Quote: 





rtf said:


> Looks like an amazing amp. I'm a little confused though, whats the point of having balanced inputs when the hp out is se? Sorry if this has been asked already.


 

 Much as Peter said, balanced transmission is the norm in the pro environment (SPL's usual market), where signal loss is unacceptable. Personally, I find it is really handy to have a balanced pass-through, as it allows me to have my monitors after the amp, with no quality degradation that I can hear.


----------



## .Sup

I have recently made xlr to rca cables and they work really great with auditor (passive passthrough), no hiss what-so-ever- dead silent.


----------



## crypt@

Quote: 





st3ve said:


> ... Anyone use their phonitor/auditor with low impedance 'phones?


 
   
 [size=medium]Paring with a low 36 ohms SE530, the Phonitor is unusable. Audible humming can clearly be heard even when the volume dial is set to its lowest setting of -80.
   
  Couple with the 40 ohms ATH-W5000, there is the tiniest but audible hum when the volume dial is turned to 0 (with DIMM switched on), but is quite acceptable as that dial doesn't normally go past -19.
   
  With the 50ohms LCD-2, it is perfectly black.​[/size]


----------



## DC5Zilla

Hello fellow head-fiers
   
  Will some one here measure the dimension of black SPL Phonitor for me?  I need to know the dimension of the encasing excluding the handle, volume knobs, and the plugs at the back to see if it fits in my small rack.
  I sent an email to SPL-USA yesterday but their response was very unprofessional and didn't even care to measure the product for me.  I would really appreciate if someone here can give me number.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## DC5Zilla

edit: got a very detailed *and* friendly email back from SPL Germany.  Many thanks to them, much better customer service than US devision


----------



## 03029174

Hey DC5Zilla how long did it take for SPL Germany to get back to you? I messaged them end of December and no word back yet?
   
  I'm trying to find out the type of fuse UK/EU members received when they got their units. For example the manual and chasis say 500ma but my Phonitor had a 315ma fuse from the factory.
   
  Would be very interested to see what other users have, i believe people running off 120v have a 1amp fuse.


----------



## DC5Zilla

I emailed SPL Germany yesterday and Mr. Lentzen from Customer Support gave me a promt reply in a very good manner.  They might have missed your email?  Perhaps You should try sending them a message again.


----------



## Yog

Has anyone tried Phonitor with Apogee Duet 2 with thier Mac (iMac or MBP)? How it sounds with HD 800? I am about to pull the trigger on RME ADI-2 but wondering what would be the best option to go for?


----------



## Sceptre

Quote: 





yog said:


> Has anyone tried Phonitor with Apogee Duet 2 with thier Mac (iMac or MBP)? How it sounds with HD 800? I am about to pull the trigger on RME ADI-2 but wondering what would be the best option to go for?


 
   
  I use a Duet with MBP via firewire 400 and I enjoy the sound.  I would describe the Duet as the weakest part of the link when using the Phonitor though.
   
  Duet is amazing value and can probably be bought on 14 day approval all around the world.
   
  Try it out.  I believe it has Cirrus Logic DACs that have been designed to give the warm Apogee house sound.  In my view, when compared to the optically driven Sonosax DA2 from the same source, it has a lifted lower mids.  Not massively but less forward.
   
  Go checkout an Apple store and trial it at home.
   
  I can't comment on the HD800 element though.  I skipped them and bought JH13's and D7000's instead.
   
  Regards
   
  Sceptre


----------



## Lord Mike

Let's bump this thread back up.
   
  Phonitor SN:9310028
   
  Mac Mini > DAC202--Furutech FP601/602/FA-220 XLR > SPL Phonitor/Burson OpAmp > HD25
   

   
  Had the Phonitor for a year now, but now with the Burson OpAmp transplant, it's really worth writing about.
  The headphone out from the DAc202 is very good in its own right, but the 'Burnitor' takes the music to another league.
  Awaiting a pair of LCD-2s that should be arriving this Friday.


----------



## .Sup

Mike is the opamp soldered?


----------



## Lord Mike

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Mike is the opamp soldered?


 


  Hi, the Burson installer tells me the Phonitor's is a simple plug-in, but for added security they soldered one pin on,
 just in case. From their feedback, the Phonitor chassis makes it extremely easy for this transplant to be conducted.
 Not sure if this is the same case for the Auditor.


----------



## .Sup

Thanks Mike. I will try to find some internal photos of the Auditor
   
  Peter
   
  Edit: found it- 
   
  and many more here: http://www.erji.net/read.php?tid=761821
   
  Are the op amps pictured in the top left corner?


----------



## Lord Mike

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Are the op amps pictured in the top left corner?


 


  Affirmative.
  Duckman, who is a fellow Melbourne head-fier, directed me to this mod after hearing one at a local meet.
  Here is an image with the Auditor with the burson's installed. Thanks again to Duckman for directing me to the image link.
   
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theworldchild/5335378792/in/set-72157625773823442/lightbox/#/photos/theworldchild/5335378948/in/set-72157625773823442/lightbox/
   
  As you can see there is a sizing issue inside the Auditor, and the casing is too small for the Burson 'towers'
  I am not sure of any solution to this other than bending the pins at appropriate lengths and installing it tilted? I can't see why not,
 but I am not an expert on such matters. The Burson fellas are very quick with email replies so that might be the best plan of attack.


----------



## .Sup

Thanks MIke, I will contact them and ask them if the pins can be bent.


----------



## alcyst

In the UK it looks like Item Audio (http://www.itemaudio.co.uk/diy_components.html) do the OpAmps


----------



## .Sup

Mike any new impressions on the Burson opamps?


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





crypt@ said:


> Paring with a low 36 ohms SE530, the Phonitor is unusable. Audible humming can clearly be heard even when the volume dial is set to its lowest setting of -80.
> 
> Couple with the 40 ohms ATH-W5000, there is the tiniest but audible hum when the volume dial is turned to 0 (with DIMM switched on), but is quite acceptable as that dial doesn't normally go past -19.
> 
> With the 50ohms LCD-2, it is perfectly black.​


 

 This is the post that I was looking for. It is confirmation that with its output impedance of 9 ohms, the Phonitor is clearly not intended for low impedance IEMs. It is optimised for 600 ohm studio monitors. It's too bad because I would love to use that crossfeed with my ES5. Still I am very interested to try this with large cans - like my 600 ohm DT880s. Envious of you guys.


----------



## Markj

Quote: 





crypt@ said:


> Paring with a low 36 ohms SE530, the Phonitor is unusable. Audible humming can clearly be heard even when the volume dial is set to its lowest setting of -80.
> 
> Couple with the 40 ohms ATH-W5000, there is the tiniest but audible hum when the volume dial is turned to 0 (with DIMM switched on), but is quite acceptable as that dial doesn't normally go past -19.
> 
> With the 50ohms LCD-2, it is perfectly black.​


 

 My experience exactly.


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





crypt@ said:


> [size=medium]Paring with a low 36 ohms SE530, the Phonitor is unusable. Audible humming can clearly be heard even when the volume dial is set to its lowest setting of -80.
> 
> Couple with the 40 ohms ATH-W5000, there is the tiniest but audible hum when the volume dial is turned to 0 (with DIMM switched on), but is quite acceptable as that dial doesn't normally go past -19.
> 
> With the 50ohms LCD-2, it is perfectly black.​[/size]


 
   
   
  I thought I would test this out somewhat with my Phonitor.  I plugged my q-Jays (39 ohm) in tonight and turned the volume all the way down - complete dead black background.  Slowly turned the volume up and started to hear a little audible hiss around -16 on the volume knob, starts to get loud at about 3-5 and all the way up to ten you can hear it easily.
   
  Mind you, if I turned them up to any where near -16 my ear drums would no longer be in my ears, they would be somewhere near my lower back and I wouldn't be listening to anything again. I don't think I have any lower impedence phones to try this out with though, but at 39 ohm (95db sensitivity at 1khz) it is more than usable.  Sounds pretty good actually.
   
  I should add also, my hd 650s, black background all the way through the volume cycle and the same with my fischer fa-002w.
   
  I had planned on getting a pair of SM3 soon as well, (within the next 2 months) be interesting to see how they go with it.  I think they are 17 ohm from memory. Or there abouts.
   
  Cheers
   
  oh.. Hi there by the way.


----------



## cooperpwc

Thanks, Timmyw. Good to know. The issue goes beyond hiss though. With high end IEMs, you want output impedance >1 ohm to get the proper frequency response.
   
  Again, that is not the Phonitor's target market; it is optimised for 600 ohms.


----------



## alcyst

What we need is someone with Beterdynamic Tesla T1 (600 ohm), Sennheiser HD800 (300ohm) and something like Audio Technica WTH5000 (40ohm) and a sound meter to do some measuring. Oh that's me....


----------



## Amarphael

Didn't had the pleasure of hearing the Phonitor but I had an W5000 with the Auditor, The hum was clearly noticeable with the dial at -36 to -27, but with the music playing i really didn't hear anything in the background except the music, even at quiet passages. And it was a great pairing, Open, airy and spacious sound with deep and punchy low-end, which surprised me as it went deeper than the WA6 and Stello HP100 i've had before it.  The W5000's are however one of the most sensitive full-size cans around, with other low-impedance phones i had (SA5000, MDR-F1) the hum wasn't audible at all.
   
  Needless to say the my 600ohm LP Sexttets were dead quite all around the dial, and sounded exceptionally real and dynamic, though a bit bright.


----------



## metalsonata

SN 11.2731.00176 (Model 2730b) checking in here!
   
  Though I've had it for almost a week, I've only gotten to listen to it for about two hours, and that was yesterday. I'll post more detailed findings and impressions once I've gotten to spend more serious time with it. 
   
  I do suspect that my DAC (HeadRoom Mico DAC) is bottle-necking it somewhat--I wasn't honestly planning on getting a Phonitor, but a deal came up that I couldn't refuse, and I had the cash for it, so I went for it. I'll be upgrading the DAC sometime down the road a ways.
   
  Initial impressions are still very positive though--especially the sound-stage and the bass control/detail retrieval.


----------



## Zombie_X

Sorry for the thread resurrection guys but was wondering what OPA's I could use in my Auditor? I was looking to get the Burson's and just bend the pins so they sat at an angle, but which ones do I use? If you know of any ones that are good alternatives to the ones already in the unit then let me know. I want maximum performance from this thing and want the most neutral sound I can get.


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Sorry for the thread resurrection guys but was wondering what OPA's I could use in my Auditor? I was looking to get the Burson's and just bend the pins so they sat at an angle, but which ones do I use? If you know of any ones that are good alternatives to the ones already in the unit then let me know. I want maximum performance from this thing and want the most neutral sound I can get.


 


  Te most neutral opamps are already in place


----------



## Zombie_X

Oh? Well I've read the amps an be a little bright and I was hoping to have a flatter response here. I don't want brighter than neutral. Even slightly warm would be OK as long as the soundstage, imaging, and extension are great.
  
  Quote: 





.sup said:


> Te most neutral opamps are already in place


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Oh? Well I've read the amps an be a little bright and I was hoping to have a flatter response here. I don't want brighter than neutral. Even slightly warm would be OK as long as the soundstage, imaging, and extension are great.


 


  With audio GD ref5 these are as neutral as it can get (opamps). It really depends on the DAC. With Auditor you will hear what you feed it with.


----------



## Zombie_X

I got my SPL Auditor today and man oh man it's really good! Beats my Roc to a pulp and my WA3+ as well. The sound is so smooth and effortless. Really a nice sounding amp.
   
  I also went a head and filmed an unboxing of it and am uploading that now.


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I got my SPL Auditor today and man oh man it's really good! Beats my Roc to a pulp and my WA3+ as well. The sound is so smooth and effortless. Really a nice sounding amp.
> 
> I also went a head and filmed an unboxing of it and am uploading that now.


 


  Did you buy yours new? Because when I got it it sounded really harsh for the first 30 hours.


----------



## Zombie_X

Yep brand new. Got it from Front End Audio for $899 and it's well worth the full $999 price IMO. To me I did not hear any harshness at all. I heard some slight harshness on my V800 DAC when I bought it but now after maybe 200 hours it sounds smooth. Now I don't believe in headphone burn-in but I do in gear because capacitors and resistors can change.
   
  As for the Auditor I have been playing around with the different headphones I own and found that the K702 and HARX900 sound really good on this amp.
   
  On my X-CANV8P the K702 sounds incredible but on the Auditor it go's to another level. The K702 sounds so full and natural. I think this is due to the higher output impedance of the amp. It just sounds so much better on the Auditor, but on the ROC it's still a bit better. A balanced K702 sounds better than when in single ended mode on my set-up.
   
  The HARX900 gains so much bass and sounds smoother and a bit less up front. It kinda took a step back and became more reserved but in a good way. The headphone gained much needed mid-bass IMO. To me it just sounds much better on this amp.
   
  Quote: 





.sup said:


> Did you buy yours new? Because when I got it it sounded really harsh for the first 30 hours.


----------



## Arctia

Just got mine brand new from SoundEarphones. I didn't even have to argue for a pricematch, they just gave it to me, with free shipping. Great company.
   
  I've been listening through my HD800 practically all last night and this morning. Came back from work yesterday, got the package, listened for some time. Went to sleep for 4 hours, woke up, and listened some more. Too bad I gotta head to work in an hour. Detailed comparisons tonight.
   
  Initial thought with HD800: Imaging is absolutely amazing. Holy grail of monitoring, perhaps? I also played around with the crossfeed, but couldn't find a good configuration with HD800. I feel that HD800 is a brilliant imaging headphone on its own, any attempt to alter the imaging will simply ruin the sound. This is where I found the quality of the crossfeed to be outstanding. Even though I couldn't find a good crossfeed setting (will try more tonight), having crossfeed on did not ruin imaging like all my previous attempts with various crossfeed DSPs. The crossfeed simply works in the background without you realizing.
   
  I have never heard such a good presentation from my HD800. Looks like I will be keeping this amp for a long time.
   
  Tonight, comparisons with my other headphones and other amp/DAC.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Sorry for the thread resurrection guys but was wondering what OPA's I could use in my Auditor? I was looking to get the Burson's and just bend the pins so they sat at an angle, but which ones do I use? If you know of any ones that are good alternatives to the ones already in the unit then let me know. I want maximum performance from this thing and want the most neutral sound I can get.


 


  What are original OPA's in side the Auditor?


----------



## Acix

So, no knowledge about the OPA's in side the Auditor?


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





acix said:


> So, no knowledge about the OPA's in side the Auditor?


 


  They are made by SPL so best to ask them. They are not something you can buy as standalone.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





.sup said:


> They are made by SPL so best to ask them. They are not something you can buy as standalone.


 


  okay, I'll ask them ...thanks.


----------



## Acix

This is SPL replay to my question, what op amp there is inside the Phonitor/Auditor.
   
  Our op-amps are the core elements of the 120V technology ... these are hand-made components which would never fit into any other unit 
  And these are no ICs - as single components they look like this :
   

   
   
   In the Auditor, they are fixed on the PCB - you cannot exchange them. 
  This is how the Auditor looks like internally (pic shows the first two of four opamps ... this also explains the housings's depth, as we simply need space for this stuff 
   

   
   
   The area marked red: that is an op-amp. It is a discrete design, no chip/IC component. Nothing can be changed within this circuit.
  the area marked yellow: this component (LF 411) is used in a circuit to cancel DC offsets. It does not work with audio signals directly, therefore no influence on sound. Do not (!) change it to ensure proper function.
   
  We do not see a chance to "tune" Auditor or Phonitor simply by component exchange -- we already did so 
   
  Thanks to Paul from the SPL [size=medium]support[/size] team.


----------



## .Sup

I exchanged the opamps with great success. Now sounds completely different. Not sure why the state you cannot tune the sound.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





.sup said:


> I exchanged the opamps with great success. Now sounds completely different. Not sure why the state you cannot tune the sound.


 


  Interesting looks from the picture the that opams is melted in, it come out easy ?
   
  Btw... I'm glad you like Auditor now, what opams did you replace with?


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





acix said:


> Interesting looks from the picture the that opams is melted in, it come out easy ?
> 
> Btw... I'm glad you like Auditor now, what opams did you replace with?


 


  Yes there are replaceable. I got the audio GD Sun and Moon but didn't like the moon. Sun is amazing, more dynamic, fuller, alive. And so inexpensive.  
  Here is a photo:


----------



## Acix

^^ great, can you close the hood?


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





acix said:


> ^^ great, can you close the hood?


 


  Yes I was able to screw the earth wire and close the hood. I put a paper under the hood so the opamp doesn't doesn't touch the metallic case. I am looking to try some other amps in the near future. I also noticed, when I opened the amp, that it has a pre-set RCA outputs that probably only need a pair of resistors.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hm.. Maybe I'll have to try the SUN OPA's. I don't think OPA's make any difference but you never know. 
   
  Also are those adapters on the OPA's custom made or did you order them from somewhere else? If ordered please post the link.
   
  When you say RCA outputs you mean it has unbalanced outputs? I am confuzzled as the Auditor only has XLR outputs.
  
  Quote: 





.sup said:


> Yes I was able to screw the earth wire and close the hood. I put a paper under the hood so the opamp doesn't doesn't touch the metallic case. I am looking to try some other amps in the near future. I also noticed, when I opened the amp, that it has a pre-set RCA outputs that probably only need a pair of resistors.


----------



## .Sup

You can order the extension cord at Audio GD's site. I meant it has pre-set RCA outputs on the PCB which aren't actually utilized but probably could be if anyone wanted to.


----------



## mopps

So you replaced the ICs for DC offset cancellation and you noticed sound improvements? Awesome! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Did you measure the DC offset after the replacement? Just for the safety of your expensive headphones!
   
  Quote: 





.sup said:


> Yes there are replaceable. I got the audio GD Sun and Moon but didn't like the moon. Sun is amazing, more dynamic, fuller, alive. And so inexpensive.
> Here is a photo:


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





amarphael said:


> Didn't had the pleasure of hearing the Phonitor but I had an W5000 with the Auditor, The hum was clearly noticeable with the dial at -36 to -27, but with the music playing i really didn't hear anything in the background except the music, even at quiet passages. And it was a great pairing, Open, airy and spacious sound with deep and punchy low-end, which surprised me as it went deeper than the WA6 and Stello HP100 i've had before it.  The W5000's are however one of the most sensitive full-size cans around, with other low-impedance phones i had (SA5000, MDR-F1) the hum wasn't audible at all.


 


  I use the Phonitor with the W5000, and there is a humming as you describe, but it's faint enough to my ears to where it doesn't bother too much, and I'm usually pretty sensitive (read: obsessive) about background noise. I agree that it's a really great combo... surprisingly so.


----------



## slwiser

I am the latest owner of the SPL Phonitor: "AppleheadMay: Phonitor 2730B with SN 9310032"
   
  Just took ownership of the unit today.  I am powering my HD-800 with it.   I have to say it has to be the best amp headphone combination I have owned.
   
  I have owned a couple of high end rigs that were very good but this one I am enjoying better.  I think I am one who likes the crossfeed sound where the sounds comes form a stage rather than all around me.  I am really getting it right out of the box.  In my opinion it does have a nice mix between a solid state sound and tubes.  I can't say where the split occurs but I get the sense of both from this unit at the same time. Listening the the K2 CD now.
   
  Computer FIles -> Squeezebox Touch -> Lavry DA10 ->  SPL Phonitor
   
  Love it.


----------



## Ville19

Hello,
   
  I'm trying to decide between SPL Auditor and Lake People G100. I do not have a possibility to audition either of them. Has anyone heard both or compared the two side by side? My headphones are HD 650 and HD 600. My dac is Icon HDP.


----------



## MayaTlab

Quote: 





ville19 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to decide between SPL Auditor and Lake People G100. I do not have a possibility to audition either of them. Has anyone heard both or compared the two side by side? My headphones are HD 650 and HD 600. My dac is Icon HDP.


 

 Picture me very interested in having an answer to that question.


----------



## alexdemaet

Quote: 





dukja said:


> You are absolutely right. I must be changing minds on different amps and got so lost of my mind. Both SPL amps use SE 1/4" for HP. And I could use my DL III XLR output to feed it.
> 
> Thanks and bear with that dumb question.


 

 I believe I have another (dumb) question: 1)I have a dac with one XLR L/R output and one RCA L/R output; 2) currently I am using my RCA output for my headphone rig and speaker rig via an RCA splitter; 3) my question finally: could I connect my headphone amp to the the dac's XLR output if my amp only has RCA input via an RCA to XLR cable (or an RCA cable with a XLR adapter)? Please note that I refer to an amp with only RCA inputs (not like the Auditor/Phonitor who has XLR inputs).
  (sorry) but this question has nothing to do with the Spl Auditor/Phonitor but I feel it is better to ask here then to start a new thread (I prefer to reduce the threads).
  (sorry for my bad English)


----------



## metalsonata

I think what you're asking is if you can connect XLR inputs/outputs to RCA inputs/outputs. The answer is yes you can, so long as you have the proper adapters.
  Quote: 





alexdemaet said:


> I believe I have another (dumb) question: 1)I have a dac with one XLR L/R output and one RCA L/R output; 2) currently I am using my RCA output for my headphone rig and speaker rig via an RCA splitter; 3) my question finally: could I connect my headphone amp to the the dac's XLR output if my amp only has RCA input via an RCA to XLR cable (or an RCA cable with a XLR adapter)? Please note that I refer to an amp with only RCA inputs (not like the Auditor/Phonitor who has XLR inputs).
> (sorry) but this question has nothing to do with the Spl Auditor/Phonitor but I feel it is better to ask here then to start a new thread (I prefer to reduce the threads).
> (sorry for my bad English)


----------



## alexdemaet

Yes correct but I see that there are several kind of XLR to RCA adapters (http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=products&content_id=14&pagestring=Adapters&product_id=52)
  I have an RCA cable and let's say I would like to transform it to an XLR one by using XLR adapters, so which types so I have to buy then?


----------



## alexdemaet

I believe I will need (starting from the XLR outputs from my dac) an XLR female - RCA female adapter


----------



## metalsonata

You'll just need to look at the xlr inputs/outputs to see if they're male or female and go from there. For example, the XLR inputs on the Phonitor are female, so to connect via RCA I need RCA female to XLR male. On the other hand, the XLR outputs on the Phonitor are male, so to make use of those, I'd have to get XLR female to RCA female.
  
  Quote: 





alexdemaet said:


> Yes correct but I see that there are several kind of XLR to RCA adapters (http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=products&content_id=14&pagestring=Adapters&product_id=52)
> I have an RCA cable and let's say I would like to transform it to an XLR one by using XLR adapters, so which types so I have to buy then?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Hi Alex,
   
  I see you live in Belgium as well.
  I might have a cable that is just what you need.
  It goes from RCA male (to put in your amp) to XLR female (to put in your Dac) and it's one cable so no adaptors.
   
  Here's a louzy pic taken witth my iphone. If that's what you need you can PM me.
  You can have the cable for free, it's nothing special. It was made of an RCA Profigold cable and has Neutrik XLR's on it.


----------



## slwiser

Quote: 





appleheadmay said:


> Hi Alex,
> 
> I see you live in Belgium as well.
> I might have a cable that is just what you need.
> ...


 
   
  Is that you one you use when you have the SPL Phonitor I have now?  I ordered a pair of XLR cables from BetterCables.com, their Silver Serpent brand.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Quote: 





slwiser said:


> Is that you one you use when you have the SPL Phonitor I have now?  I ordered a pair of XLR cables from BetterCables.com, their Silver Serpent brand.


 


  I used it to go from the output of the Lux to the input of my Phonitor, yes.


----------



## alexdemaet

Thanks for the generous offer (sent PM)  !
  
  Quote: 





appleheadmay said:


> Hi Alex,
> 
> I see you live in Belgium as well.
> I might have a cable that is just what you need.
> ...


----------



## AppleheadMay

No worries, it's christmas time!


----------



## Acix

Subscribe, SPL Phonitor in the studio...


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





acix said:


> Subscribe, SPL Phonitor in the studio...


 


  gratz


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





.sup said:


> gratz


 


  Thanks,  the transparency level of the Phonitor is the best so far!  My first session was 6-7 hours with no ear fatigue...the Phonitor is definitely a new definition for studio Solid Stage hps amp.
   
  I find interesting they use almost the same specs of the Auditor and the Phonitor ...and yet the Phonitor use a nine SUPRA OP amps that made and developed by SPL. The same tehnology use in the SPL MMC 1 @ 8K mastering console, and the SPL PQ 2050 mastering edition EQ @ 15K.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





kees said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *EugeneK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


 
   
  I think the term transparency will work for me better in this case.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





cafenoir said:


> Hello,
> 
> Maybe I can share with you my experience in that regards.
> I had bought a SPL Auditor which presented some noise, whether the inputs were connected or not. It was not a hum, though, but rather a buzz, which was noticeable at both low volume and high volume, bur strangely desappeared with the volume knob set at around 3 o'clock. It was hardly audible through the hd-650, but very noticeable with lower impedance phones (say, 50ohms). I contacted someone that had the same problem. It turned out it was the same unit (he returned it to Thomann, they resold it, and I bought it back!). He told me that now his new unit is dead quiet. I sent back mine, and I am waiting for a new one, hoping it will be quiet too.
> ...


 



 For future reference, I hope the GND lift switch will resolve the buzzing issue.


----------



## feifan

St3ve, harj, Lord Mike, metalsonata, Zombie_X, Arctia, MuppetFace, slwiser, Acix -- I added your Phonitor/Auditor to the roll on the opening page. My apologies for the long delay.

 If you haven't yet, see Tyll Hertsens' "CanJam at RMAF - Outstanding Product: The SPL Phonitor" (Oct 23, 2011). Here's a quote: "I've listened to just about every cross-feed circuit out there. I've twiddled and tweaked long hours to make it do it's thing and not get in the way of fidelity. It's not easy. But the SPL Phonitor just blew me away with its outstanding and fully adjustable cross-feed circuit."


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





feifan said:


> St3ve, harj, Lord Mike, metalsonata, Zombie_X, Arctia, MuppetFace, slwiser, Acix -- I added your Phonitor/Auditor to the roll on the opening page. My apologies for the long delay.
> 
> If you haven't yet, see Tyll Hertsens' "CanJam at RMAF - Outstanding Product: The SPL Phonitor" (Oct 23, 2011). Here's a quote: "I've listened to just about every cross-feed circuit out there. I've twiddled and tweaked long hours to make it do it's thing and not get in the way of fidelity. It's not easy. But the SPL Phonitor just blew me away with its outstanding and fully adjustable cross-feed circuit."


 

  
  Thanks for adding me... is hard now to listen without the cross-feed, I'm really like the center level with vocals.


----------



## metalsonata

I suspect that I'd have a really long adjustment period if I ever went back to an amp without cross-feed. I got hooked on it with Headroom's products and made sure that even my portable amp had it. There are still plenty of other amps that I lust after, but I can't imagine ever abandoning the Phonitor--unless something else with even better cross-feed control comes along.
  
  Quote: 





acix said:


> Thanks for adding me... is hard now to listen without the cross-feed, I'm really like the center level with vocals.


----------



## Zombie_X

It's not a problem man 
  
  Quote: 





feifan said:


> St3ve, harj, Lord Mike, metalsonata, Zombie_X, Arctia, MuppetFace, slwiser, Acix -- I added your Phonitor/Auditor to the roll on the opening page. My apologies for the long delay.
> 
> If you haven't yet, see Tyll Hertsens' "CanJam at RMAF - Outstanding Product: The SPL Phonitor" (Oct 23, 2011). Here's a quote: "I've listened to just about every cross-feed circuit out there. I've twiddled and tweaked long hours to make it do it's thing and not get in the way of fidelity. It's not easy. But the SPL Phonitor just blew me away with its outstanding and fully adjustable cross-feed circuit."


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Hey
   
  Quick Question about the best DAC to match with the auditor. I currently have a DACmagic and 
  since i changed from a lehmann linear (which is quite coloured) to the SPL auditor i suspect the Dacs' flaws may
  have been made more evident. 
   
  With neutral amps is there any hope on the DAC end to get some more solidity and bass back into the audio? I am using
  the HD 650s which have quite a dark signiture which is nice. 
   
  Cheers! p.s currently been looking at new Audiolab M-DAC, anyone rate this paired with an SPL amp?


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> With neutral amps is there any hope on the DAC end to get some more solidity and bass back into the audio? I


 

 Yes, if the DAC have a warm /bassy sound signature.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

any recommendations for such a DAC around the 1000 dollar range? M-Dac by audiolab for example? although i have heard 
  it called 'cold and forward', but this has also been shouted down as false by others. ive yet to test it. 
   
  If anyone here has an auditor/phonitor, what DAC would give it a bit more weight and warmth? 
   
  Dan.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hi,
   
  I tried the Musical Fidelity M1DAC with my Auditor and it sounds really nice. It's warm and musical but also highly detailed and resolving. I found the warmth was there but not in your face like the Havana DAC. Another nice feature is that it offers balanced outputs, though they may not be "true" balanced.
  
  Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> any recommendations for such a DAC around the 1000 dollar range? M-Dac by audiolab for example? although i have heard
> it called 'cold and forward', but this has also been shouted down as false by others. ive yet to test it.
> 
> If anyone here has an auditor/phonitor, what DAC would give it a bit more weight and warmth?
> ...


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

did you run the havana with rca with xlr adaptors? i guess the havana indeed may not be true balanced as it is rca out i see in
  pics, and not xlr. 
   
  Anyone know any europe made dacs? Seems UK and Germans are the main makers i have found sofar.


----------



## Zombie_X

There are balanced versions of the Havana and they are true balanced. When I tried the DAC I used the XLR outputs but I don't think the XLR outputs are as warm sounding as the RCA outputs. Single ended output sounded much warmer to my ears. The XLR connection sounded a tad drier and neutral. Although it's been so long since I tried the DAC.
   
  You should also know that the balanced version costs $500 more than the single ended version.
   
http://www.upgradecompany.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.pbv.v1.tpl&product_id=81&category_id=24&vmcchk=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=139
  
  Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> did you run the havana with rca with xlr adaptors? i guess the havana indeed may not be true balanced as it is rca out i see in
> pics, and not xlr.
> 
> Anyone know any europe made dacs? Seems UK and Germans are the main makers i have found sofar.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

ah right i see. I saw the Rega Dac (which is said to have the musicality i would like) only has RCA... 
  prob one option is get that and run it to the auditor with xlr adaptors...any good tips on what are 
  descent adaptors? 
   
  thanks!


----------



## Zombie_X

I have used the Hosa brand of adapters and they are the same as the Cardas adpaters. No need to waste your money on the Cardas ones. These work perfect.
  
  Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> ah right i see. I saw the Rega Dac (which is said to have the musicality i would like) only has RCA...
> prob one option is get that and run it to the auditor with xlr adaptors...any good tips on what are
> descent adaptors?
> 
> thanks!


----------



## Jamiee

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> any recommendations for such a DAC around the 1000 dollar range? M-Dac by audiolab for example? although i have heard
> it called 'cold and forward', but this has also been shouted down as false by others. ive yet to test it.
> 
> If anyone here has an auditor/phonitor, what DAC would give it a bit more weight and warmth?
> ...


 
   
  I'm running an M-DAC with my Phonitor and Cavalli Audio Liquid Fire headphone amps.
   
  I certainly wouldn't call the M-DAC cold or harsh sounding, no not at all...
  It is quite dynamic and has good detail/speed, so on that end I wouldn't exactly say that it's overly warm and fuzzy either.
   
  What's kind of cool is that it has several different sound modes (filters) to select from, so you can literally choose the tonal character that you want to listen to, or that works best with your headphones or speakers.
   
  On the note of headphones, the M-DAC's headphone amp is very good.  You might just be surprised how close it is to the quality of the Auditor.
   
  BTW, the M-DAC honestly does need a good 150-200 hours of bun-in time before it's capacitors settle in properly.
  The tonal character of the M-DAC does change a fair bit throughout this time (mostly within the first 100 hrs).


----------



## suikodenii

Hi, how do you compare the Phonitor & the Liquid Fire? Thanks!


----------



## Jamiee

Quote: 





suikodenii said:


> Hi, how do you compare the Phonitor & the Liquid Fire? Thanks!


 
   
  First I should point out that I have modified my Phonitor slightly with upgraded Burson OP-AMPS, and the Liquid Fire with upgraded NOS Telefunken tubes.
  With the Burson's and Telefunken's in place, the Phonitor and liquid Fire are quite similar (very similar in fact), however I will say that the liquid Fire is capable of eking more low end grunt.
  This tends to make it a bit more suitable for driving headphones like the Audeze LCD's and Hifiman HE-6.
  My HD800 sound fantastic on either amp, with the LCD-3 preferring the Liquid Fire.
   
  Of course if crossfeed functionality is your thing, then the Phonitor is the way to go as the Liquid Fire does not have this ability.
   
  If I had to choose just one of the two amps I would most likely go with the Liquid Fire as it is just a little more compatible with a wider range of headphones.
  That said, both are excellent and I'm very glad I didn't have to make that choice.
  I use the HD800 on the Phonitor and the LCD-3 with the Liquid Fire.


----------



## suikodenii

Thank! Interesting, what Is your experience with the Burson OpAmps? How did the Phonitor improve?
I am a long time owner of the Phonitor & pretty happy with it but nevertheless curious as to how the upgrade could improve.
Did you do this yourself or have someone perform the OPAmp change?

Thanks!


----------



## .Sup

I ordered Burson for my Auditor 2 days ago


----------



## Jamiee

Quote: 





suikodenii said:


> Thank! Interesting, what Is your experience with the Burson OpAmps? How did the Phonitor improve?
> I am a long time owner of the Phonitor & pretty happy with it but nevertheless curious as to how the upgrade could improve.
> Did you do this yourself or have someone perform the OPAmp change?
> Thanks!


 
   
  I replaced the stock OpAmps with the Burson's my self.  It's really simple to do if you get the DIP8 socket version of the Burson OpAmps (literally plug and play) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  One of these days I might get around to replacing the capacitors and volume pot with higher grade components - but that's a lot more work and requires good soldering skilz.
   
  The stock Phonitor sounds like a very nice piece of audio gear - Quite like-able really.
  Modded with the Burson's the Phonitor becomes "live" - as in it sounds more transparent, open and airy, with tighter more realistic bass.
  Voices sound more realistic and instrument separation improves.  The Burson's sound good out of the gate, but they do improve nicely over the first 25-30hrs or so of use.
   
  I also use a full set of Stefan AudioArt Endorphin Series cables with my Phonitor and HD800 (Power cable, XLR interconnects, headphone cable) and together with the Burson OpAmp  upgrade, this is just a wickedly good combination!
   
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





.sup said:


> I ordered Burson for my Auditor 2 days ago


 
   
  Excellent, I don't think you will be disappointed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  The Burson's are one of the very best OpAmps I've heard period, and are a very nice upgrade for the Phonitor and Auditor.


----------



## suikodenii

.sup said:


> I ordered Burson for my Auditor 2 days ago



Hi,
Where did you order them and which ones exactly are those Burson OpAmps (model number?)?
Is just one pair required for the Phonitor as well or does it need more than the Auditor?

Thanks!


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





suikodenii said:


> Hi,
> Where did you order them and which ones exactly are those Burson OpAmps (model number?)?
> Is just one pair required for the Phonitor as well or does it need more than the Auditor?
> Thanks!


 
  I ordered straight from Burson. Single OPAs with dip sockets. They are sold in pairs (you need a pair).


----------



## suikodenii

Thanks. Not sure I understand yet exactly what I need.
  1 x Single OPA DIP or
  1 x Dual OPA DIP ?
  Or 2x any of each?
  
  Are the OPs in the Phonitor socked so that it is really just a plug and place. Or is soldering/unsoldering still required with the DIPs?


----------



## Jamiee

Quote: 





suikodenii said:


> Thanks. Not sure I understand yet exactly what I need.
> 1 x Single OPA DIP or
> 1 x Dual OPA DIP ?
> Or 2x any of each?
> ...


 
   
  Let me point you in the right direction.... 
  http://www.partsconnexion.com/BURSON-74456.html
   
   
  An alternate (if you want something more perminant and have decent soldering skills) would be the flying leads version.
  http://www.partsconnexion.com/burson_71486.html
   
   
  You might find a better price elsewhere, but at least you know what to look for.


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





suikodenii said:


> Thanks. Not sure I understand yet exactly what I need.
> 1 x Single OPA DIP or
> 1 x Dual OPA DIP ?
> Or 2x any of each?
> ...


 

  Single OPA dip socket 70AUD. You order one package where there are two included.
http://bursonaudio.com/burson_opamp.htm
   
  I currently have Audio GD sun and like it a lot, more than the stock opamps because they are more musical, have more bass but still very detailed. But it really depends on the DAC. The stock opamps work well with the musical wolfson whereas the Ref5 with the pcmuk chips was too boring.
  I didn't know much about opamps either, I first ordered two dual opas (Moon). The amp started smoking, luckily I had the amp opened and shut it down instantly when I saw smoke. It didn't damage my amp, I might have just slightly re-flown the solder. 
  All you have to do is drop the opamp into the sockets so that the half moon on the opamp and amp socket align. You will know what I am talking about if you open your amp. There will be a half moon looking mark and you have to position the Burson the same way.
  You will also need extension leads, you can order those from Audio GD otherwise you won't be able to close your amp, unless Phonitor is higher.


----------



## Jamiee

The Phonitor is taller so there's no worries about height clearance issues like with the Auditor. 
  The Burson OpAmps with DIP adapter will fit inside the Phonitor just fine .


----------



## suikodenii

Thanks guys! Can someone confirm that with the DIP it is really just an unplug/plug in job & no soldering/unsoldering is required with either removing the old OPAmp or placing the new one?
Thanks!


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





suikodenii said:


> Thanks guys! Can someone confirm that with the DIP it is really just an unplug/plug in job & no soldering/unsoldering is required with either removing the old OPAmp or placing the new one?
> Thanks!


 
  its like inserting a sata or IDE cable if that makes sense to you. You need to insert it the right way but its really easy. No soldering required.


----------



## Jamiee

Quote: 





.sup said:


> its like inserting a sata or IDE cable if that makes sense to you. You need to insert it the right way but its really easy. No soldering required.


 

 +1
   
   
  You only need to solder a pin or two if you are going to be moving your Phonitor around a lot.
  Soldering in this case would help prevent the two Burson OpAmps from falling out of their socket during transport.
  The Burson's are much taller than a regular chip OpAmp (what is stock in the Phonitor) and are top heavy.
  If you aren't going to be moving the Phonitor around than soldering is not really required.
   
  BTW, when you drop in the the new OpAmp, be sure to snug them in firmly, but gently - last thing you want to do is break a pin!
  Also as .Sup said, make sure you align the pins of the OpAmp in the correct orientation, failure to do so will lead to a fried OpAmp.


----------



## .Sup

Ha! Jamiee so when I was trying to pair a dual opa with Auditor and when I saw smoke it wasn't from the amplifier but from the OPAs?


----------



## Jamiee

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Ha! Jamiee so when I was trying to pair a dual opa with Auditor and when I saw smoke it wasn't from the amplifier but from the OPAs?


 
   
  Lol. Yeah I'd say it was Most likely the OpAmp.
  That said, I'm not sure why the dual channel OpAmp would have burnt up like that?
   
  The only time I've seen an OpAmp burn up straight away like that was when it was inserted in the socket incorrectly (read: backwards).
  As soon as power was applied to the board, *POOF* went the OpAmp!


----------



## metalsonata

*Edited.* Oops, already answered my question.


----------



## metalsonata

Anyone got a picture of where exactly these go in the Phonitor? I haven't opened mine up since getting it, and even then I'm pretty much a newb, so I wouldn't know where to look for the stock opamps anyways. Certainly a fan of anything that I can plug'n'play and get a significant improvement out of, though.


----------



## Jamiee

Quote: 





metalsonata said:


> Anyone got a picture of where exactly these go in the Phonitor? I haven't opened mine up since getting it, and even then I'm pretty much a newb, so I wouldn't know where to look for the stock opamps anyways. Certainly a fan of anything that I can plug'n'play and get a significant improvement out of, though.


 
   
  Here you go....
  (Yellow circles mark the position of each OpAmp for L/R channels)


----------



## suikodenii

Do you happen to know what these 2 OpAmps are used for and their type? I thought it was mentioned somewhere in this thread that any OpAmp other than the SPL propriatary ones were not in the signal path. or maybe I got that wrong.
  Didn't open up my Phonitor yet.
  Thanks!


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





suikodenii said:


> Do you happen to know what these 2 OpAmps are used for and their type? I thought it was mentioned somewhere in this thread that any OpAmp other than the SPL propriatary ones were not in the signal path. or maybe I got that wrong.
> Didn't open up my Phonitor yet.
> Thanks!


 
  Supra 120V op amps made by SPL
   
  Jamiee surely you need an extension lead to insert a Burson opa there no? The two capacitors next to each other op amp are awfully close.


----------



## suikodenii

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Supra 120V op amps made by SPL
> 
> Jamiee surely you need an extension lead to insert a Burson opa there no? The two capacitors next to each other op amp are awfully close.


 

 Thanks.
  The Supra OpAmps by SPL are discrete built so it doesn't make sense to insert bursons there I suppose.
  I was referring to the two OpAmps that are circeled in yellow in the picture above and which are supposed to be replaced by the Bursons as far as I understand. What model are those and how do they affect the signal path.


----------



## metalsonata

I'm curious about this as well--I've read that the opamps in the Phonitor aren't actually in the sound path, and instead are present for the purpose of 'DC offset,' whatever *that* means. @.@
  Quote: 





suikodenii said:


> Thanks.
> The Supra OpAmps by SPL are discrete built so it doesn't make sense to insert bursons there I suppose.
> I was referring to the two OpAmps that are circeled in yellow in the picture above and which are supposed to be replaced by the Bursons as far as I understand. What model are those and how do they affect the signal path.


----------



## technobear

The chip op-amps in the Auditor and Phonitor are used purely for DC-offset control and play no part in the audio signal path.

Changing them cannot possibly alter the sound in spite of what some people claim they are hearing. 

Suggestion is a powerful force. Don't be fooled.


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





technobear said:


> The chip op-amps in the Auditor and Phonitor are used purely for DC-offset control and play no part in the audio signal path.
> Changing them cannot possibly alter the sound in spite of what some people claim they are hearing.
> Suggestion is a powerful force. Don't be fooled.


 
  I don't believe this. The difference is night and day in my Auditor.


----------



## metalsonata

Lol. Maybe I'll have to contact SPL and get their opinion on the matter. Which probably won't be much of an opinion.


----------



## technobear

SPL's response has aleady been given in post #329 of this very thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/437390/spl-phonitor-roll-call-appreciation-thread/315#post_7884392


----------



## metalsonata

Hmmm. Interesting. Thanks for the link.


----------



## Jamiee

The marked OpAmps are not SPL's Supra 120V units.
  They are used for some sort of voltage regulation (though for the life of me I can't remember what), and while SPL claims that changing them won't affect the sound - I can tell you that it certainly does!
   
  As for spacing - The Burson will fit fine on it's own without any additional adapter for added height.
  They have just enough clearance over the small capacitors you see in the above photo.


----------



## .Sup

I have tried Audio GD moon and Sun besides stock Supras and they all sounded very different.


----------



## metalsonata

So do the Bursons not actually sit on the board? I get that the pins will be firmly in place, but the actual chips the components sit on just sort of... chill? Can you tell that I lack the vernacular to properly discuss this lol?
   
  Anyone got a good picture of what the Bursons look like in the Phonitor when they are installed? I'm trying not to be too needy, honest. ^^


----------



## Jamiee

Yer gonna make me pull out and open up my Phonitor aren't ya....


----------



## metalsonata

Well, I'm not going to make you, exactly... I'll probably just keep gently bugging people until I get my way. :-D
  Quote: 





jamiee said:


> Yer gonna make me pull out and open up my Phonitor aren't ya....


----------



## Jamiee

Lol.
   
  Well lets see if this will tide you over for a bit...
   

   
  NOTE:  This is not a Burson installed into a Phonitor - but it looks exactly the same.
  I should also mention that the burson in this photo looks to be a dual-channel part (the single channel version is very similar looking - just lacks the added componentry on the backside).


----------



## metalsonata

Edit: Answered my own question, again. x.x


----------



## Jamiee

yep, on the DIP adapter all you have to do is line up the half moon (semi-circle) with the matching one on the socket.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hi,
   
  I tried this a while back with swaping OPA's and it did nothing for me. I got some from Audio-GD as Sup suggested and well, no changes to the sound. I honestly don't know why you guys hear changes in the sound. I've contacted SPL about this and they said it won't change the sound.


----------



## Jamiee

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hi,
> 
> I tried this a while back with swaping OPA's and it did nothing for me. I got some from Audio-GD as Sup suggested and well, no changes to the sound. I honestly don't know why you guys hear changes in the sound. I've contacted SPL about this and they said it won't change the sound.


 
   
  Odd, with my HD800's the change from stock OpAmps to the Burson's was/is quite noticeable.
  I did swap them back and forth a couple of times early on to be sure, and it wasn't until I put the stock parts back in that I really heard the difference between the two.


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





technobear said:


> The chip op-amps in the Auditor and Phonitor are used purely for DC-offset control and play no part in the audio signal path.
> Changing them cannot possibly alter the sound in spite of what some people claim they are hearing.
> Suggestion is a powerful force. Don't be fooled.


 
  Doesn't changing rectifier tube in a tube amp alter the sound?


----------



## Zombie_X

True, but the audio passes through the tube. On the Auditor is does not pass through the OPA's as they are for DC offset. If it's changing the sound for you guys it may not be a good thing. I've talked with SPL on this matter and they said the OPA's that are being changed in this thread have no audio signal pass through them, so changes would not occur. They also suggested that changing these OPA's could be for the worse.
   
  Quote: 





.sup said:


> Doesn't changing rectifier tube in a tube amp alter the sound?


----------



## Jamiee

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> True, but the audio passes through the tube. On the Auditor is does not pass through the OPA's as they are for DC offset. If it's changing the sound for you guys it may not be a good thing. I've talked with SPL on this matter and they said the OPA's that are being changed in this thread have no audio signal pass through them, so changes would not occur. They also suggested that changing these OPA's could be for the worse.


 
   
  I dunno the change to the Burson's sounds pretty darn good to me.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hrm... I still would not recommend swapping OPA's on the Auditor.


----------



## .Sup

I just got my Bursons. Its supposed to need 100 hrs of burn in so I won't say anything yet but the obvious: huge quantities of bass.


----------



## Zombie_X

I have Bursons in my old DAC25.2. They made the sound clearer but not bassier. Will have to swap them into my Auditor and try them out.
   
  Quote: 





.sup said:


> I just got my Bursons. Its supposed to need 100 hrs of burn in so I won't say anything yet but the obvious: huge quantities of bass.


----------



## TWIFOSP

Is all this opamp swapping talk related to the auditor only?  I have a phonitor and I'm curious if there is an op amp rolling going on with it.  I'm pretty happy with the sound, but I used to have a lot of fun rolling op amps in my old Xin super macro v3.


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> Is all this opamp swapping talk related to the auditor only?  I have a phonitor and I'm curious if there is an op amp rolling going on with it.  I'm pretty happy with the sound, but I used to have a lot of fun rolling op amps in my old Xin super macro v3.


 
  you can do it with Phonitor too


----------



## Zombie_X

I took the Burson OPA's out of my DAC25.2 and swapped them into my Auditor. As expected there is no audible change at all.


----------



## Jamiee

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I have Bursons in my old DAC25.2. They made the sound clearer but not bassier. Will have to swap them into my Auditor and try them out.


 
   
  Agreed, my experience with the Burson's is that they clean up the sound but certainly don't add any bass.
  If anything I find the bass with my Phonitor and HD800's to be more balanced, textured and a bit less in your face compared to the stock OpAmps.
  The Burson's seem to focus in more on mid range purity.
   
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I took the Burson OPA's out of my DAC25.2 and swapped them into my Auditor. As expected there is no audible change at all.


 
   
  This still surprises me...


----------



## .Sup

I'm still testing different opamps, another week for sure.


----------



## Acix

I want to try those Burson's with my Phonitor, any other changes worth to mention...maybe with the sound stage?
   
   
  Quote: 





jamiee said:


> Agreed, my experience with the Burson's is that they clean up the sound but certainly don't add any bass.
> If anything I find the bass with my Phonitor and HD800's to be more balanced, textured and a bit less in your face compared to the stock OpAmps.
> The Burson's seem to focus in more on mid range purity.


----------



## .Sup

acix said:


> I want to try those Burson's with my Phonitor, any other changes worth to mention...maybe with the sound stage?



Don't and save money. As much as I hate to admit it after I have done extensive comparisons between different opamps I have to agree with ZombieX that there is no difference between them. I guess it was all in my head.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Don't and save money. As much as I hate to admit it after I have done extensive comparisons between different opamps I have to agree with ZombieX that there is no difference between them. I guess it was all in my head.


 
   
   
  Wow... so all your opamp swapping and no sound differences between them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks for the advice!


----------



## .Sup

acix said:


> Wow... so all your opamp swapping and no sound differences between them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think it was all in my head. I heard differences but then i put stock opamps back in and after a couple days it sounded the same as any other opamp.


----------



## madbull

HI all,
   
  I have some high end cans and I'm in need of a good SS amp (sometimes tubes are a hassle). The Phonitor seems a good option, but I confess that what attracts more about it is its crossfeed circuit. How good is it in the end? I listened to the youtube demo several times, but it doesn't seem that impressive at all. Maybe cause its just a youtube video and audio is very compromised? Or is it a good sample of its xfeed capabilities?
   
  I'm between this amp and the V200, having already the V800 is giving some advantage to the Violectric.
   
  Any help???


----------



## metalsonata

I can tell you that I think the Phonitor sounds fantastic with the V800-- but I haven't heard the V200, so I can't say much else on that matter. As for the crossfeed--have you ever used crossfeed before? I find it to be an excellent little feature that I wish more amps had, but note that, when used correctly, the effect it produces is mostly a subtle one--to be honest, I don't try listening for it much anymore. Granted, with the Phonitor, you can really exaggerate the effect and still make it sound pretty good thanks to the refined levels of control you have over the crossfeed, but for my purposes, tuning in a good crossfeed setting is not about making the music sound gobs better most of the time--instead, it's a way of just reducing listening fatigue and lending the headphones a slightly more natural, speaker-esque vibe. With a perfect crossfeed tuning on my HD650s, I often mistake the sound coming through my headphones for the sound of my desktop speakers--which is exactly what good crossfeed should do, I think.
   
  What kind of music do you listen to mostly, by the way? I've found that for certain genres of music or certain albums that turning the crossfeed off completely actually results in a more enjoyable listen--and if your music collection largely consists of similar music, then you may as well go for an amp without the crossfeed function, particularly if it's considerably cheaper.
   
  Quote: 





madbull said:


> HI all,
> 
> I have some high end cans and I'm in need of a good SS amp (sometimes tubes are a hassle). The Phonitor seems a good option, but I confess that what attracts more about it is its crossfeed circuit. How good is it in the end? I listened to the youtube demo several times, but it doesn't seem that impressive at all. Maybe cause its just a youtube video and audio is very compromised? Or is it a good sample of its xfeed capabilities?
> 
> ...


----------



## madbull

Quote: 





metalsonata said:


> I can tell you that I think the Phonitor sounds fantastic with the V800-- but I haven't heard the V200, so I can't say much else on that matter. As for the crossfeed--have you ever used crossfeed before? I find it to be an excellent little feature that I wish more amps had, but note that, when used correctly, the effect it produces is mostly a subtle one--to be honest, I don't try listening for it much anymore. Granted, with the Phonitor, you can really exaggerate the effect and still make it sound pretty good thanks to the refined levels of control you have over the crossfeed, but for my purposes, tuning in a good crossfeed setting is not about making the music sound gobs better most of the time--instead, *it's a way of just reducing listening fatigue and lending the headphones a slightly more natural, speaker-esque vibe. With a perfect crossfeed tuning on my HD650s, I often mistake the sound coming through my headphones for the sound of my desktop speakers--which is exactly what good crossfeed should do, *I think.
> 
> What kind of music do you listen to mostly, by the way? I've found that for certain genres of music or certain albums that turning the crossfeed off completely actually results in a more enjoyable listen--and if your music collection largely consists of similar music, then you may as well go for an amp without the crossfeed function, particularly if it's considerably cheaper.


 
   
   
  That's exactly what I want in crossfeed, which I already use, but in a software solution, with goods results regarding to fatigue, but not on imaging. A little improvement on that matter would be greatly appreciated and if you sometimes mistakes the sound of your HD650s for speakers, that should be working great. I want that too!!
   
  Thanks for your reply.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





madbull said:


> HI all,
> 
> I have some high end cans and I'm in need of a good SS amp (sometimes tubes are a hassle). The Phonitor seems a good option, but I confess that what attracts more about it is its crossfeed circuit. How good is it in the end? I listened to the youtube demo several times, but it doesn't seem that impressive at all. Maybe cause its just a youtube video and audio is very compromised? Or is it a good sample of its xfeed capabilities?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  The V800 and the Phonitor are okay combo but not great. Compare to my Apogee DAC, the V-800 bass was a bit anemic, and start to rolloff in the upper mid bass...this gives the sensation like the V800 is a bit hot on the treble.
   
  I had the V-100 that was a cool fun amp on the bass side, maybe this will balanced out your V-800 better.


----------



## madbull

Quote: 





acix said:


> The V800 and the Phonitor are okay combo but not great. *Compare to my Apogee DAC, the V-800 bass was a bit anemic, and start to rolloff in the upper mid bass.*..this gives the sensation like the V800 is a bit hot on the treble.
> 
> I had the V-100 that was a cool fun amp on the bass side, maybe this will balanced out your V-800 better.


 
   
  Or maybe it's the other way around: apogee may be bass centric or oriented. I'm pretty satisfied with the amount of bass V800 provides, and don't think there's anything wrong about that.
   
  The only reason I'm thinking about Phonitor is beucase of the xfeed. If it can even slightly emulate speaker imaging then it's allright to me. What are your experiences on that matter?


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





madbull said:


> Or maybe it's the other way around: apogee may be bass centric or oriented. I'm pretty satisfied with the amount of bass V800 provides, and don't think there's anything wrong about that.
> 
> The only reason I'm thinking about Phonitor is beucase of the xfeed. If it can even slightly emulate speaker imaging then it's allright to me. What are your experiences on that matter?


 
  It really does work, but I will say you might not appreciate it right away. The effect can be subtle but you can set it up to copy the sound stage of your speakers pretty accurately. I notice it right away now, when you switch the crossfeed circuit on it can sound disorienting if you have been listening to headphones exclusively without it. When it starts to really shine is if you are listening for long periods or swapping between speakers and your headphones for whatever reason. I'd offer to let you listen to mine to help, but I may as well live on the moon haha.
   
  In my experience it basically puts the image more in front of you, which seems like some sort of cheaty magic. For anyone wanting a fully transparent amp for long listening sessions or recording this is it IMO. Does it make your headphones sound like speakers? No. Does it help them image like them? Yes definitely.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





madbull said:


> The only reason I'm thinking about Phonitor is beucase of the xfeed. If it can even slightly emulate speaker imaging then it's allright to me. What are your experiences on that matter?


 
   
  For me the Phonitor is all about sound transparency / resolution and dynamic. The xfeed is a very cool bonus and I'm agree with Timmyw experience, and there is more. I'll quote Bizkid here, about the center level...he got the best explanation without the need for you hear it.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/329765/spl-phonitor-new-reference-amp/15
   
  Now the most interesting thing about the Phonitor, besides the crossover is the "center level" feature. This can help to tune headphones to taste.
  We all know the problem. Compared to speakers, headphones in general have the middle (in soundstage) too upfront, easily heard in vocals and drums.
 The Phonitor is using a technic called M/S where you separate the signal not into left/right, but into mono sum/stereo sum signals. That means the volume can be lowered ONLY for the middle signal without affecting the sides. You can turn down the mono volume from 0,3dB to 2,0dB. That helps nicely to give vocals, bass and drums some needed distance when listening to headphones.

 Probably most people (me included) are used to listen to headphones the way they are, nevertheless I especially found that feature very nice and usefull.


----------



## madbull

I'm afraid I'm gonna enjoy xfeed so much there will be no way back to other amps 
  If at least it had a pre out  do you guys think I could use the headphone out as a pre out?


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





madbull said:


> I'm afraid I'm gonna enjoy xfeed so much there will be no way back to other amps
> If at least it had a pre out  do you guys think I could use the headphone out as a pre out?


 
   
   
  Maybe, I'll use the balance out on the back as a pre, but I'm not sure and never tested this option. What is the idea to use the xfeed on speakers?


----------



## madbull

Quote: 





acix said:


> Maybe, I'll use the balance out on the back as a pre, but I'm not sure and never tested this option. What is the idea to use the xfeed on speakers?


 
   
  no, on my tube amp.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





acix said:


> Maybe, I'll use the balance out on the back as a pre, but I'm not sure and never tested this option. What is the idea to use the xfeed on speakers?


 
   
  The balanced out is an unaltered signal flow-through bypassing crossfeed, volume control and everything else. 
   
  Indeed there is no sense in using crossfeed with speakers.


----------



## madbull

I bought me a Phonitor!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The black one!


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





madbull said:


> I bought me a Phonitor!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Congratulations!


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





madbull said:


> I bought me a Phonitor!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Congratulations on your purchase . You won't be disappointed!


----------



## Zombie_X

Hi,
   
  I don't hear the V800 as that at all. I find it more neutral than say the DAC1. It's a lot more transparent and resolving as well. There is no way the bass is anemic Acix. I do not hear the roll of either.
   
  Quote: 





acix said:


> The V800 and the Phonitor are okay combo but not great. Compare to my Apogee DAC, the V-800 bass was a bit anemic, and start to rolloff in the upper mid bass...this gives the sensation like the V800 is a bit hot on the treble.
> 
> I had the V-100 that was a cool fun amp on the bass side, maybe this will balanced out your V-800 better.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hi,
> 
> I don't hear the V800 as that at all. I find it more neutral than say the DAC1. It's a lot more transparent and resolving as well. There is no way the bass is anemic Acix. I do not hear the roll of either.


 
   
  For me was hard to notice the bass rolloff at first, but when I compare the V-800 to the Apogee Mini DAC the differences were easily notable. Also the Apogee dynamic was more moving free in a open space, and not so stiff as the V-800.
   
  In my experience with both on the Phonitor, the Apogee is more balanced with more convincing dynamics.


----------



## Zombie_X

Yo,
   
  Hrm... I might contact them and see if I can demo their DAC. I am interested in it now. You're the first person who said the V800 has roll off, so I am sure you can understand why I am skeptical. Project86 didn't notice the roll off and he's heard dozens of DAC's.
   
  Quote: 





acix said:


> For me was hard to notice the bass rolloff at first, but when I compare the V-800 to the Apogee Mini DAC the differences were easily notable. Also the Apogee dynamic was more moving free in a open space, and not so stiff as the V-800.
> 
> In my experience with both on the Phonitor, the Apogee is more balanced with more convincing dynamics.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Yo,
> 
> Hrm... I might contact them and see if I can demo their DAC. I am interested in it now. You're the first person who said the V800 has roll off, so I am sure you can understand why I am skeptical. Project86 didn't notice the roll off and he's heard dozens of DAC's.


 
   
   
  You should definitely try the Apogee Mini DAC at first occasion, you also can make it sound better by chancing the power supply. I'm using the Elpac, also the sigma 11 can be a great option. http://www.head-fi.org/t/272887/power-supply-kit-for-apogee-mini-dac


----------



## .Sup

I always felt the bass with the Auditor is on the low side but that is to be expected from a pro amp.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





.sup said:


> I always felt the bass with the Auditor is on the low side but that is to be expected from a pro amp.


 
   
   
  I'm not sure what you referring "bass on the low side", the SPL's are both very transparent and you can easy spot the _coloration_ sounds of the DAC.


----------



## .Sup

acix said:


> I'm not sure what you referring "bass on the low side", the SPL's are both very transparent and you can easy spot the _coloration_ sounds of the DAC.



I meant the quantity of the bass is on the low side compared to other amps, flat, no added bass.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





.sup said:


> I meant the quantity of the bass is on the low side compared to other amps, flat, no added bass.


 
   
  Yes, you're right and this is exactly the point when you choose the right DAC for your liking. I mean if you have colored amp and colored DAC, you can get lost in translation.


----------



## Parula

Hi folks. I'm buying a Phonitor today to connect directly to an Oppo 93. Do I need male rca to male xlr for the connection? If so, do you recommend any particular brand of cable? Thanks in advance.


----------



## .Sup

parula said:


> Hi folks. I'm buying a Phonitor today to connect directly to an Oppo 93. Do I need male rca to male xlr for the connection? If so, do you recommend any particular brand of cable? Thanks in advance.



hey, a Mogami or Canare cable will be very good. RCA to XLR yes


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





parula said:


> Hi folks. I'm buying a Phonitor today to connect directly to an Oppo 93. Do I need male rca to male xlr for the connection? If so, do you recommend any particular brand of cable? Thanks in advance.


 
   
  You can get the RCA to XLR adapter.


----------



## Parula

Thanks Acix. rca male to xlr male or female? I'll be connecting the Phonitor directly from the Oppo 93 rca outs to the Phonitor's xlr inputs. Will I need a male or female xlr?


----------



## Parula

I've read having cables without adapters will provide a cleaner connection


----------



## Zombie_X

Yo,
   
  One thing to note is that when using XLR to RCA is that the volume gets halved as XLR caries twice the voltage of RCA. So with XLR you get double the volume.


----------



## Parula

Thanks Zombie. Unfortunately, I'm using an Oppo 93 which only has rca connects. Perhaps down the road I'll buy an Oppo 95 which has xlr connects. My question remains ... xlr male or female to the Phonitor inputs


----------



## madbull

My Phonitor has arrived and is making the LCD-2 really sing. I don't even miss my Orpheus with that combo!!
   
  Makes me wanna upgrade to the LCD-3.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





madbull said:


> My Phonitor has arrived and is making the LCD-2 really sing. I don't even miss my Orpheus with that combo!!
> 
> Makes me wanna upgrade to the LCD-3.


 

 Wait...what?


----------



## rxs0

Has anyone had a chance to evaluate the SPL Phonitor headphone amplifier with the Lynx Hilo Reference A/D D/A Converter System as a DAC source?
   
  The Lynx Hilo scored top of the list on Pro-Audio forum gearslutz when analyzed with the Audio Diffmaker software  (http://www.libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm) when compared to other high end Pro-Audio A/D D/A converters.  This presumably correlates with excellence in transparency, neutrality, and fidelity.  This is of course up for debate.  You obviously need to demo and listen to the unit to get a balanced assessment of the device.  Check out various YouTube videos by searching for Lynx Hilo.  The Hilo retails for $2,500. 
   
  I am very happy with this unit.  In addition to mixing/mastering applications, I can use the AD component to convert some of my phono records to digital with great fidelity.  It also acts a digital and analog preamp.  I use it to drive Yamaha HD80 and HD50 monitor speakers and HS10W subwoofer.  I'm saving up for some Focal Twin6 Be monitors and subwoofer. 
   
  The gearslutz link is as follows:
  http://www.gearslutz.com/board/8268185-post154.html
   
  This is from the Lynx Studio website, http://www.lynxstudio.com:
  "The Hilo is a 3 in one unit – AD converter, DA converter and Headphone with its own dedicated D/A converter.  There are three unique sets of analog outputs: main analog output, monitor output (with volume) and headphone output (with volume).  The flexible digital I/O section offers the choice of AES/EBU, SPDIF by coax or TOSLINK optical, or ADAT formats. 
  It is an independent headphone amplifier. The headphone section has its own, dedicated D/A converter. This provides two key benefits. First this allows Hilo to offer a headphone output with exceptional clarity and noise specifications. Second, due to Hilo’s internal 32 channel mixer, any input set can be routed to the headphone stereo output. This means that a mix that is entirely different from the analog outputs and monitors can be applied to the headphones.
  Another innovation, the Headphone section has its own dedicated D/A converter. This supports the creation of 32-channel headphone mixes independent of the main and monitor outputs, as well as providing specifications that rival those of dedicated headphone amps costing $1500 and more.
  To prevent the large current draw required for this output from affecting the performance of the other converter sections, the headphone amplifier derives power from an independent analog power supply. As with the monitor output, a separate D/A converter and 0.5 dB stepped volume control is provided for additional flexibility
  and control."
   
  I am currently using the Hilo headphone amplifier which sounds awesome with multiple low and high impedance headphones.  I have a SPL Phonitor on order from Germany since I read many favorable reviews of the unit and wanted to try the crossfeed, speaker angle, and center level functions. 
   
  In this setup, I will use the Hilo as a DAC feeding the SPL Phonitor headphone amp.  I will compare this combination to the Hilo integrated headphone amp. I will be using short balanced XLR-XLR Mogami Gold 3 feet cables between the Hilo DAC component and the SPL Phonitor.  I will use the two XLR line outs on the Hilo instead of the monitor out connectors since each line out is powered by two parallel D/A converters on each line output channel which improves dynamic range and lowers noise.  This provides an additional 3dB of signal to noise.  The monitor outs are powered by a single D/A converter.
   
  I will be using a variety of headphones including the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro (600 ohm), AKG K702 (62 ohm), and Audio Technica ATH-M50 (38 ohm) headphones.  I will likely order the Sennheiser HD800 (300 ohm) open back headphones in the coming weeks. 
   
  I will let you know my opinions when the SPL Phonitor arrives.    
   
  Rich


----------



## .Sup

madbull said:


> My Phonitor has arrived and is making the LCD-2 really sing. I don't even miss my Orpheus with that combo!!
> 
> Makes me wanna upgrade to the LCD-3.



And then they say Auditor/Phonitor is not good for low impedance headphones. I'm really glad you like it as much as me.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





.sup said:


> And then they say Auditor/Phonitor is not good for low impedance headphones. I'm really glad you like it as much as me.


 
  I am using the LCD-2 right now with the Phonitor and the partnership is exquisite.


----------



## .Sup

dukeskd said:


> I am using the LCD-2 right now with the Phonitor and the partnership is exquisite.



And I am using my HE-500 with Auditor and the sound is amazing.


----------



## madbull

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> Wait...what?


 

 I was listening to a jazz guitar album that sounds really amazing. Audio nirvana, eargasm etc... Sorry about the enthusiasm...


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





.sup said:


> And then they say Auditor/Phonitor is not good for low impedance headphones. I'm really glad you like it as much as me.


 
   
  I think just one person said it...In my experience I like both, but the Phonitor have in the front the Dim -20 button, just in case.


----------



## Acix

@ Rich, the Hilo looks like a great machine... will be interesting to read your impression. I use the Apogee Mini DAC with the Phonitor, and I super happy about this combo.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





acix said:


> I think just one person said it...In my experience I like both, but the Phonitor have in the front the Dim -20 button, just in case.


 
   
  That doesn't fully address the problem that the output impedance is 9 ohms (and, according to reviews on here, it hums with sensitive headphones). That is not a fault _per se_; this amp is optimised for 600 ohms studio headphones.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> That doesn't fully address the problem that the output impedance is 9 ohms (and, according to reviews on here, it hums with sensitive headphones). That is not a fault _per se_; this amp is optimised for 600 ohms studio headphones.


 
   
  I never experienced hum with my Phonitor, and I do not use the dim switch. I even tried IEM, HD25ii-1s, Denon D7000 with the Phonitor and the background was black silent. This is a different story with a tube amp like Lyr, which makes music by itself with the utilization of humming!


----------



## cooperpwc

The claim of hum citing hearsay on my part from this review. I admit that such is not very useful.
   
  More generally though, there is an increasing trend on here of people using amps that are inappropriate for low impedance loads to drive IEMs. It isn't a very good idea. If you want to drive IEMs, get an amp with output impedance <1 ohm to 2 ohms max, not the Phonitor (which is in my view an excellent amp with high impedance headphones like Senns and Beyers).


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> The claim of hum citing hearsay on my part from this review. I admit that such is not very useful.
> 
> More generally though, there is an increasing trend on here of people using amps that are inappropriate for low impedance loads to drive IEMs. It isn't a very good idea. If you want to drive IEMs, get an amp with output impedance <1 ohm to 2 ohms max, not the Phonitor (which is in my view an excellent amp with high impedance headphones like Senns and Beyers).


 

 The technicalities don't really matter when the sound is right. I believe the LCD-2 and Phonitor is an awesome pairing. I didn't think much of the Phonitor + d7000, but that's my opinion.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> The technicalities don't really matter when the sound is right.


 
   
  If this is a truism ('when the sound is right, the sound is right') then you must be right too. However since the technicalities impact upon the sound, I do not think that this is an especially useful statement.
   
   


dukeskd said:


> I believe the LCD-2 and Phonitor is an awesome pairing.


 
   
  I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I just mentioned those that I have heard with the Phonitor and which the the German company SPL clearly targeted for this studio monitoring amp. At 50 ohms nominal, the LCD-2 should be okay in terms of the, as you put it, technicalities, and may indeed otherwise sound great.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> That doesn't fully address the problem that the output impedance is 9 ohms (and, according to reviews on here, it hums with sensitive headphones). That is not a fault _per se_; this amp is optimised for 600 ohms studio headphones.


 
   
  If you have a hum problem you can use the _ground lift switch_. Now, will be better to talk from your own experience and not just quote reviews here.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





acix said:


> If you have a hum problem you can use the _ground lift switch_. Now, will be better to talk from your own experience and not just quote reviews here.


 

 Good advice for those with the humming. You need to always the read manual if you encounter any problems!


----------



## Acix

@ dukeskd, how is the new Mytek hps out compare to the Phonitor?


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> The technicalities don't really matter when the sound is right. I believe the LCD-2 and Phonitor is an awesome pairing. I didn't think much of the Phonitor + d7000, but that's my opinion.


 
   
  How do you find Phonitor and D700 pairing?


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





acix said:


> @ dukeskd, how is the new Mytek hps out compare to the Phonitor?


 

 In my opinion, amazing. I think they work wonders together, as Mytek is not in the clinical nature but it is very neutral with no harsh sounds. The Mytek DAC uses the Sabre 32bit chip, which is known for its detail extraction, and I love to hear all the details with neutrality. It is the pairing for me and I will not change this setup for a _long_ time.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





redbull said:


> How do you find Phonitor and D700 pairing?


 

 I found it decent. The one thing that was surprising was the enhanced soundstage with the Phonitor (crossfeed switched off). The mids and lower-end regions were really nice but I wasn't too happy about the treble.


----------



## RedBull

Thanks duke.  I ask because when I tried D7100 with DarkStar (accidentally with High gain setting) the bass was horribly wooly.
  I did not noticed the treble though because the bass itself has ruin the whole thing.
  I know it's a different amp, but I am afraid amp that designed for high impedance amp won't excel with lower impedance like LCD-2?


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Any thoughts on how Auditor/Phonitor pairs with HD800 vs T1? I would be focusing on classical music as reference. I am using MDAC ... if anyone has an 
  opinion on that DAC, AMP pairing with these phones it would be appreciated. 
   
  Dan


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> Any thoughts on how Auditor/Phonitor pairs with HD800 vs T1? I would be focusing on classical music as reference. I am using MDAC ... if anyone has an
> opinion on that DAC, AMP pairing with these phones it would be appreciated.
> 
> Dan


 
   
   
  Looks form the box like the MDAC engineers already make their choice...have you tried the K-70X series with classical music ?


----------



## madbull

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> Any thoughts on how Auditor/Phonitor pairs with HD800 vs T1? I would be focusing on classical music as reference. I am using MDAC ... if anyone has an
> opinion on that DAC, AMP pairing with these phones it would be appreciated.
> 
> Dan


 
   
  I'm listening to some Haydn symphonies through Phonitor and HD800 and everything is great, imaging is next to perfection with the Xfeed on. It really feels like I'm the theater, sitting at third row. Really amazing.
   
  I don't have the T1 here with me now though.


----------



## Acix

Madbull, I see you have the V800 and I was wondering if you tried a different DAC's with this combo?


----------



## madbull

Quote: 





acix said:


> Madbull, I see you have the V800 and I was wondering if you tried a different DAC's with this combo?


 
   
  Not yet.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





madbull said:


> I'm listening to some Haydn symphonies through Phonitor and HD800 and everything is great, imaging is next to perfection with the Xfeed on. It really feels like I'm the theater, sitting at third row. Really amazing.
> 
> I don't have the T1 here with me now though.


 

 Same experience here, the crossfeed really makes the music more realistic in so many ways. I also love to listen to acoustic albums, Jimmy Page - David Coverdale, etc.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Quote: 





acix said:


> Madbull, I see you have the V800 and I was wondering if you tried a different DAC's with this combo?


 
   
  Ah I meant the Audiolab MDAC Acix. it's a UK brand but made in china. 
   
  I just have the auditor myself. Although Jude did a great Head Fi TV review of the phonitor (its on youtube) and said its one the best SS amps for HD800s. 
  I can't wait to try out the T1 soon. I think 800s are not versatile enough for my music collection. And I find 650s now a bit muffled. T1 should be a nice 
  compromise.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> Ah I meant the Audiolab MDAC Acix. it's a UK brand but made in china.
> 
> I just have the auditor myself. Although Jude did a great Head Fi TV review of the phonitor (its on youtube) and said its one the best SS amps for HD800s.
> I can't wait to try out the T1 soon. I think 800s are not versatile enough for my music collection. And I find 650s now a bit muffled. T1 should be a nice
> compromise.


 
   
  Yes, the T1 are great as well the K702...here is more info: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595522/akg-k702-vs-beyerdynamic-t1-in-the-studio


----------



## feifan

I've added the following Phonitor/Auditor owners to the roll in the OP. If I missed you or if you'd like to be listed, add a reply in this thread. For me, the interesting thing about the Phonitor is that it grows on you. I use a lot of different gear, and it's only when I return to the Phonitor that I really appreciate its transparency, speed, power, accuracy, and ability to separate, isolate, reposition. It doesn't jump out at you because it does it so easily, naturally, so it's almost as if it's not there. But I notice it, especially when I've been on the iPhone-Klipsch S4 tandem for most of the day.
  
  34. daniel_hokkaido: Auditor
   
  35. Jamiee: Phonitor
   
  36. TWIFOSP: Phonitor

 37. Timmyw: Phonitor

 38. madbull: Phonitor --My Phonitor has arrived and is making the LCD-2 really sing. I don't even miss my Orpheus with that combo!! Makes me wanna upgrade to the LCD-3. I'm listening to some Haydn symphonies through Phonitor and HD800 and everything is great, imaging is next to perfection with the Xfeed on. It really feels like I'm the theater, sitting at third row. Really amazing.
  
  39. rxs0: Phonitor
   
  40. Parula: Phonitor
   
  41. dukeskd: Phonitor - the crossfeed really makes the music more realistic in so many ways. I also love to listen to acoustic albums, Jimmy Page - David Coverdale, etc.


----------



## .Sup

feifan how does it compare to your beta22?


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> Ah I meant the Audiolab MDAC Acix. it's a UK brand but made in china.
> 
> I just have the auditor myself. Although Jude did a great Head Fi TV review of the phonitor (its on youtube) and said its one the best SS amps for HD800s.
> I can't wait to try out the T1 soon. I think 800s are not versatile enough for my music collection. And I find 650s now a bit muffled. T1 should be a nice
> compromise.


 
  You sound exactly like me Daniel. I have the T1 and I have an enormous eclectic music collection and I just forget about the gear completely. I can't imagine you will be disappointed if you go with the T1. The HD650 confuse me, sometimes I think they sound great, at others they sound like the music is coming from a speaker that's underwater. I think I have the old version 650 though.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey,
   
  I thought both variations of the HD650 sounded the same to me. Both sounded muffled and bloated with congestion in the midrange.
   
  Quote: 





timmyw said:


> You sound exactly like me Daniel. I have the T1 and I have an enormous eclectic music collection and I just forget about the gear completely. I can't imagine you will be disappointed if you go with the T1. The HD650 confuse me, sometimes I think they sound great, at others they sound like the music is coming from a speaker that's underwater. I think I have the old version 650 though.


----------



## feifan

Hey Sup. I know this sounds evasive, but I don't really compare the two. I use different line-ups for different purposes. When I'm working on the computer at non-music tasks, I use my iPhone with an earphone. Minimal hassles. When I need to get into the music for recording or tweaking, I usually turn to the Phonitor or m902 and K701 or HD650. All SE. For serious listening to known good recordings, I use the b22 and HD800. Balanced. For relaxed listening to anything, I usually turn to my other balanced rigs with the HD650 or HD800. I tend to favor neutrality, wide soundstage, separation, and accuracy over color, but at times I crave color, warmth, musicality and turn to iPhone+HF2(Grado) or m902+GS1K.
   
  I think head-fiers end up with a lot of different rigs because they can't find one that serves all their needs and musical tastes. Different lineups tend to shine with different genres, with different applications, with different moods.


----------



## .Sup

Thanks feifan, I also have two separate rigs, both that I love, each for a different occasion. Thanks for reply


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Quote: 





timmyw said:


> You sound exactly like me Daniel. I have the T1 and I have an enormous eclectic music collection and I just forget about the gear completely. I can't imagine you will be disappointed if you go with the T1. The HD650 confuse me, sometimes I think they sound great, at others they sound like the music is coming from a speaker that's underwater. I think I have the old version 650 though.


 
   
  Ah good to hear. The shop should get the sample T1 in next week  Beyer are really invisible in UK at the moment ... they need to get their act together and catch up with Sennheiser ..which is everywhere here (in shops i mean) 
   
  Yeah i know exactly what you mean with 650s man! Some genres I have just blend with its sound so well (electronica, some ambient stuff)...but im increasingly not listening to those ones now..so an upgrade to something with added uppers is looming! i will say one thing though...the 800s are phenomenal with live violin/cello. (For any 800 owners) Check out stuff on cello by Ernst Reijseger or (in my opinion one of the best recorded classic jazz albums) Charles Mingus 'Mingus Mingus Mingus'. yum!


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hey,
> 
> I thought both variations of the HD650 sounded the same to me. Both sounded muffled and bloated with congestion in the midrange.


 
  Ya that's how I hear them. Mind you, I have never heard the later version of the HD 650 so I can't comment on how they sound. After I heard the T1s for the first time I knew the HD650 I owned weren't for me.


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> Ah good to hear. The shop should get the sample T1 in next week  Beyer are really invisible in UK at the moment ... they need to get their act together and catch up with Sennheiser ..which is everywhere here (in shops i mean)
> 
> Yeah i know exactly what you mean with 650s man! Some genres I have just blend with its sound so well (electronica, some ambient stuff)...but im increasingly not listening to those ones now..so an upgrade to something with added uppers is looming! i will say one thing though...the 800s are phenomenal with live violin/cello. (For any 800 owners) Check out stuff on cello by Ernst Reijseger or (in my opinion one of the best recorded classic jazz albums) Charles Mingus 'Mingus Mingus Mingus'. yum!


 
  Well, my T1s sound awesome with everything. I like what you said about the HD 800 though. I love Cello. Arrghh I wish there was someone around here that owned a pair.


----------



## .Sup

I preferred HD600 and HD800 with tube amps than with Auditor.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Yeah tubes seem to be the ideal according to most for 800. What amp did you use? 
   
  Also (for all phonitor owners) what DACs are you using? Im using Audiolab MDAC which is 1000 bucks pricepoint. Would be curious if anyone is 
  running 2k to 5k DACs which they feel match well with SPL for an overall neutral presentation (yet not sparse of course!)
   
  Any experience with DACs which are galvanically sealed usb wise?
   
  Was looking at Antelope zodiac DACs and heard Berkeley Audio DACs are also amazing. But for headphone only use, can a 5k DAC give you 
  something beyond a 3k one (like the zodiac) ...I have zero expertise on speakers systems btw. 
   
  Dan


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> Yeah tubes seem to be the ideal according to most for 800. What amp did you use?
> 
> Also (for all phonitor owners) what DACs are you using? Im using Audiolab MDAC which is 1000 bucks pricepoint. Would be curious if anyone is
> running 2k to 5k DACs which they feel match well with SPL for an overall neutral presentation (yet not sparse of course!)
> ...


 
   
   
  The SPL amps will give you this impression that you have the best setup/DAC out there...and this because of the transparency level of those amps. In my experience the best for you will be to A/B two or more DACs. With the Phonitor transparency level you'll be able to notice the differences between the DAC's right away, at least in my case, because I use the Phonitor in my daily work as a mastering engineer.
   
  Back in the US I had the chance to check out a bit the Amara and the Berkeley, but not in the same session with the Phonitor. In another occasion I was impressed with the Auditor /Ayre DAC combo, as well with the Phonitor and the Apogee Mini DAC, Also the OPPO CD player is great with the Phonitor, ( I don't remember the model this was in 2007/8, BTW this combo remind me the m902 ).
   
  A few months back I had the chance to check out the V-800 in my studio...and I was surprise to find out the Apogee still rule.


----------



## Acix

I've forgot to mention that I've already talked with someone that I know at Antelope Audio to check out the Zodiac in my studio, but I waited to get the Voltikus PSU as well, and now I already want to session the Eclipse 384. I'm also interesting in the Weiss DAC.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> Yeah tubes seem to be the ideal according to most for 800. What amp did you use?
> 
> Also (for all phonitor owners) what DACs are you using? Im using Audiolab MDAC which is 1000 bucks pricepoint. Would be curious if anyone is
> running 2k to 5k DACs which they feel match well with SPL for an overall neutral presentation (yet not sparse of course!)
> ...


 

 I am using the Mytek 192 DAC with the Phonitor, both products of professional audio companies and I find that they also complement each other incredibly well.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Quote: 





acix said:


> The SPL amps will give you this impression that you have the best setup/DAC out there...and this because of the transparency level of those amps. In my experience the best for you will be to A/B two or more DACs. With the Phonitor transparency level you'll be able to notice the differences between the DAC's right away, at least in my case, because I use the Phonitor in my daily work as a mastering engineer.


 
   
  Do you mean by A/B two or more DACs that you run from your pc/macbook to apogee then from that to violectric then to the SPL? 
  Another Q btw as you said you are a mastering engineer...is piano known to cause problems on higher notes for distortion? When i tried some phillip glass with the HD800s and my setup the 
  resonance from accumulated notes (as glass does play fast!) was still there though MUCH less than with HD650s. As the notes build up in cresendos i just notice a lot of distortion (if that is 
  the right term) ... when piano is slow its all crisp. Do you reckon this is my DAC getting overwhelmed or that the recording could be at fault? 
   
  Def let me know what you think of the zodiac when you try it..i know it has an amp in it but i know nothing about its quality. Btw there is talk about the MDAC getting a PSU upgrade. I 
  have chatted with mates about what advantages this could bring... is it to better store and regulate the quality of electricity going into the dac chip so it keeps it running at 100% effeciency
  rather than having it fall prey to slight mains fluctuations? 
   
  Cheers! P.S I read the computeraudiophile.com review of the Berkeley USB converter and the Alpha DAC today. Gawp!


----------



## feifan

Daniel, 800s and Cello -- yes! The 800s' dynamics are the best I've heard.

 DAC with Phonitor? I'm curious, too. I've been using the DL3 (stock) and have no complaints. But Acix's comment ("The SPL amps will give you this impression that you have the best setup/DAC out there...and this because of the transparency level of those amps.") has me wondering if my amps are hiding any DAC flaws.

 Acix, I'm interested in hearing your impressions of the various DACs you mention, especially the Apogee and Weiss.
  
  dukeskd, I'm interested in hearing your impressions of the Mytek 192.
   
  Daniel, I'm interested in hearing your impressions of the Audiolab MDAC.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Quote: 





feifan said:


> Daniel, 800s and Cello -- yes! The 800s' dynamics are the best I've heard.
> 
> DAC with Phonitor? I'm curious, too. I've been using the DL3 (stock) and have no complaints. But Acix's comment ("The SPL amps will give you this impression that you have the best setup/DAC out there...and this because of the transparency level of those amps.") has me wondering if my amps are hiding any DAC flaws.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah you raise a point! I originally got a lehmann linear amp and a dacmagic. I dont know.. i mean lehmann was a reference amp but it definitely
  was more coloured than spl...prob cause its an audiophile amp and not for studio. Anyway, yeah the lehmann broke and I decided to replace it 
  from Thomann with an SPL Auditor. Not immediately but after a few weeks I started to feel the transparency of the SPL was exposing a new
  harsh sound from the Dacmagic. It really bugged me in the end so I got the MDAC. Which really improved everything! Esp vocals and drums man! Stuff like Talk Talk or Laurie Anderson ... drum and bass etc is very well presented by MDAC. As for slower stuff I mostly listen to, I dont know. Maybe it's the 650s Im using. My whole system really comes alive with more lively electro tunes. So def drums and vocals the MDAC 
  excels in my view..it was the first dif i noticed from DAcmagic. 
   
  I also found getting a furutech usb cable boosted the solidity and soundstage of MDAC..and adding upgrade cable to 650s really solved 
  a large part of their distortion at high freqs when at higher vols. 
   
  go gear! It does make a big difference!


----------



## feifan

The MDAC sounds good. Drums and bass guitars are a tough test for equipment. If it can't cover the speed, depth, and breadth of a single bass stroke, keeping it tight, articulated, and punchy, it's obvious to everyone's ears. The 650s are harder to sync than most, but an upgrade cable helps. I use the cardas. My guess is that the veil is inversely proportional to clean power. For example, in balanced lineups, it disappears. In SE, it's touch and go. I like it as a reference because everyone seems to be familiar with it, for good or bad. I'll have to look into furutech usb cables.


----------



## dukeskd

I have to disagree with Acix's comment. For a few months before purchasing my Mytek 192 DAC, I was using the cEntrance DACMini as my primary DAC. The difference between the two in A/B analysis is *enormous*. You will clearly see why the Mytek is priced at twice the value of the DACMini, and the sound reinforces this statement. I always rely on my DAC for my professional part in music, which is mastering and mixing, especially since everything is computerized and a USB is all you need to connect to a DAC. When critically listening and doing comparisons the differences will come out easily with the Phonitor than any other amplifier I have tried (please do not use tube amps when doing critical comparisons, they will color the sound with dependence on tubes).


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





feifan said:


> Daniel, 800s and Cello -- yes! The 800s' dynamics are the best I've heard.
> 
> Acix's comment ("The SPL amps will give you this impression that you have the best setup/DAC out there...and this because of the transparency level of those amps.") has me wondering if my amps are hiding any DAC flaws.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  The other way around... I clearly said, *"With the Phonitor transparency level you'll be able to notice the differences between the DAC's right away"*






  About the Weiss, this DAC I want to try on my first occasion.
   
  I had the chance to A/B the Amara and the Berkeley on the WES with the Stax 4070 At the NorCal meet in 09. The Berkeley was more natural organic sound, and the Amara was more open in the treble, and tight and sharp all over the sound spectrum, both DAC's had great details just in a different sound presentation. During my session with both DAC's I had some grainy noise sound, I think it was coming from the WES amp. I also got feel that the WES smash the Amara vast dynamic range...and I ended up very disappointed with the WES experience. I'm sure today that this session can be done into much better experience with the Phonitor.
   
  I've found a photo of this session,
   

   
  For studio use, I'll prefer the the Ayre DAC and the Apogee Mini DAC. The Ayre DAC is raw and natural, open and very transparent sound. Right after come the Apogee mini DAC with a bit more analytic approach to the sound, and yet not as raw and balanced as the Ayre sound. The V800 will be the last one for me to use in the studio, is a good tight sound DAC, but for me is a bit to much treble energy and roll off bass compare to the Apogee DAC.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> Do you mean by A/B two or more DACs that you run from your pc/macbook to apogee then from that to violectric then to the SPL?
> Another Q btw as you said you are a mastering engineer...is piano known to cause problems on higher notes for distortion? When i tried some phillip glass with the HD800s and my setup the
> resonance from accumulated notes (as glass does play fast!) was still there though MUCH less than with HD650s. As the notes build up in cresendos i just notice a lot of distortion (if that is
> the right term) ... when piano is slow its all crisp. Do you reckon this is my DAC getting overwhelmed or that the recording could be at fault?
> ...


 
   
   
  You can run a few USB devices simultaneously, you'll just need to change the drivers on the control panel.
   
  The distortion on the Phillip Glass higher notes piano can be from the recording at my first guess. I'm not sure if you DAC have a gain function, but if there is a gain should be as close as possible to the 0 db's.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

ah thanks for that. Yeah I wasn't sure if its my tech or the recording.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hi,
   
  I've changing DAC's altered my Auditors signature quite a bit. The DAC25.2 sounded warm (even though the XLR output) and was not super detailed. The V800 is much more detailed and very neutral. It was like opening a foggy glassed window.
   
  And yes tube amps will color the sound a lot. It would also say don't use them for anything critical or analytical.
   
  Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> I have to disagree with Acix's comment. For a few months before purchasing my Mytek 192 DAC, I was using the cEntrance DACMini as my primary DAC. The difference between the two in A/B analysis is *enormous*. You will clearly see why the Mytek is priced at twice the value of the DACMini, and the sound reinforces this statement. I always rely on my DAC for my professional part in music, which is mastering and mixing, especially since everything is computerized and a USB is all you need to connect to a DAC. When critically listening and doing comparisons the differences will come out easily with the Phonitor than any other amplifier I have tried (please do not use tube amps when doing critical comparisons, they will color the sound with dependence on tubes).


----------



## feifan

dukeskd, thanks for the heads up on the Mytek 192 DAC. You're right. "A/B analysis" is probably the best test. But it takes time and effort to set up, and there always seems to be variables that we can't control. It's funny, though, how time always seems to improve SQ. Some swear it's burn-in, but you have to wonder if it's the equipment or the ears that are burning in -- or both.
   
  I just received a press release re PS Audio's NuWave DAC. It's billed as the successor to the DL3 so I'm definitely interested. But the field's crowded so I'm not rushing into it just yet.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





feifan said:


> dukeskd, thanks for the heads up on the Mytek 192 DAC. You're right. "A/B analysis" is probably the best test. But it takes time and effort to set up, and there always seems to be variables that we can't control. It's funny, though, how time always seems to improve SQ. Some swear it's burn-in, but you have to wonder if it's the equipment or the ears that are burning in -- or both.
> 
> I just received a press release re PS Audio's NuWave DAC. It's billed as the successor to the DL3 so I'm definitely interested. But the field's crowded so I'm not rushing into it just yet.


 

 Yes feifan, the field is definitely crowded. The best thing is to trial the different DACs at shops but that is another hard thing to do especially when you'll need to bring your personal inventory along, not forgetting the fact that a shop is usually very distracting when performing analysis.


----------



## feifan

Acix, thanks for the clarification. It's good to hear your confirmation of the Ayre DAC. I've never heard it described as "raw" before. I usually hear "refined." A lot of different variables could probably account for this difference. I've had my eye on the QB-9 for quite a while and the QA-9 even moreso. But a lot of new options at lower prices are popping up.


----------



## feifan

Zombie_X, nice description: "The V800 is much more detailed and very neutral. It was like opening a foggy glassed window." I've always been impressed with the V800's killer looks. Good to hear it has qualities I favor. My concern was the USB input, which maxes at 24/96? Granted, 24/192 may be overkill, but it's fast becoming a standard.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





feifan said:


> Acix, thanks for the clarification. It's good to hear your confirmation of the Ayre DAC. I've never heard it described as "raw" before. I usually hear "refined." A lot of different variables could probably account for this difference. I've had my eye on the QB-9 for quite a while and the QA-9 even moreso. But a lot of new options at lower prices are popping up.


 
   
  Is depending on what music are you listening, with classical music this can be the case, For me the "raw" description coming from Ayre DAC ability to be so much transparent that I can hear the raw sound that hiding behind the fx's in my electronic music... "refined" I can call the Apogee sound house. Both DAC's are the most transparent ones in my experience. I'll be glad to hear your experience, or anyone else here about the most transparent DAC via the Phonitor.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

when are you set to try the antelope?


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> when are you set to try the antelope?


 
   
  I need to check with my contact @ Antelope if there is any demo unite with the Voltikus PSU available in Israel.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

btw is the crossfeed function on the phonitor something which makes the amp 'more enjoyable' to the ear? Or is it more a technical device for engineers? 
  As an audiophile only I was curious.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> btw is the crossfeed function on the phonitor something which makes the amp 'more enjoyable' to the ear? Or is it more a technical device for engineers?
> As an audiophile only I was curious.


 

 Definitely both. It is also more enjoyable when you listen to old records  from the 70s and back, example would be Led Zeppelin. Jimmy Page's guitars are hard panned 180 degrees to the left or right in some songs, and to be honest that annoys me when I listen to it with the HD800s for example. The crossfeed changes this and you can adjust the guitar's panning to 100 degrees which a lot more enjoyable for me. As for mixing, I have mixed with the crossfeed and I feel it translates well to speakers.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

yeah for 1000 quid its an amazing feature. Jude raved about it in the headfi tv ep he did. I may look into a second hand 
  phonitor at some point. Looks like a sports car dash too


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> yeah for 1000 quid its an amazing feature. Jude raved about it in the headfi tv ep he did. I may look into a second hand
> phonitor at some point. Looks like a sports car dash too


 

 No doubt, the front display of the Phonitor is a beauty and I think that nothing even comes close to it.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> No doubt, the front display of the Phonitor is a beauty and I think that nothing even comes close to it.


 
   
  The beauty of the beast...


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





acix said:


> The beauty of the beast...


 

 +1.


----------



## madbull

Quote: 





acix said:


> The beauty of the beast...


 
  +2


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

When I read that SPL made the amps for 600ohms (as its an 'industry standard') I looked at who makes 600ohm phones..and only AKG and Beyer came up. Is this 
  really the case? What is the AKG competitor to the T1 btw?? 
   
  Also, when I asked before about the phonitor's crossfeed circuits, if used purely as an audiophile amp, are they worth it? I know it was agreed that it adds pleasure 
  to listening but is it worth the extra 600 bucks over the auditor? They have the exact same amp parts I read. Does changing the angle of the audio signal at the ear
  create a more realistic sound stage? That would be cool if so. 
   
  Dan


----------



## .Sup

As far as I know AKGs are the most common headphones used in studios.


----------



## feifan

"Is it worth it?"
   
  I know this sounds like a cop out, but it all depends. If you've been aware of the fixed speaker angles, centering, and crossfeed levels in recordings and wished you could somehow manipulate them, then it might be worth it. With the Phonitor, it's not just a single all-or-nothing crossfeed switch but varying levels of crossfeed. And it doesn't stop there. You can also manipulate speaker angles. And it doesn't end there either. You can futz with the centering of the stereo image in your head. And still it doesn't end there. There are numerous other switches to tinker with SQ.
   
  Is it worth it?
   
  If tinkering and experimenting appeals to you, then maybe. If you simply want the default (as recorded by engineers) SQ, then it may not be.
   
  It also depends on your goals. If you tend to be analytical, prize accuracy over color, and want to get inside your recordings, then maybe. If you could care less about the inner workings and just want warmth and musicality, then maybe not. 
   
  For example, many who just want their amp to make all their recordings sound good won't hear the Phonitor difference simply because they're not looking for it. For these people, the extra bucks may not be worth it.
   
  Some people look at a car and see a car. It's something to take them from point A to point B. Others look at a car and automatically want to take it apart to see how it's put together and to clean or upgrade the parts to improve overall performance. If you're the latter type, maybe.


----------



## dukeskd

Also please remember that the crossfeed feature was targeted at audio/mixing engineers in a studio workplace, especially for mixing when speakers are not available.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *daniel_hokkaido* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> What is the AKG competitor to the T1 ??
> ...


 
   
  The K-702 is the AKG competitor to the T1, here is more info: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595522/akg-k702-vs-beyerdynamic-t1-in-the-studio


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Thanks for advice! Yeah I think in the medium term im set to get T1 phones, then maybe look at better DAC. New amp is prob 
  not worth it  for my purposes as you say..but god the phonitor is cool looking


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey,
   
  The K702 wouldn't be a competitor. I'd say either the K501 or K1000 would be a competitor. The K702 isn't all it's cracked up to be. As great as it is, it's not going to be a competitor. The K501 sounds somewhat similar to the T1 and IMO is a much better headphone than what the K702 is. To me the K702 sounds "fake" with a forced neutrality. For studio use I recommend the KRK KNS-8400, you should try it sometime. It sounds awesome on the Auditor, so I think you'll enjoy it for monitoring.
   
  daniel_hokkaido, I'd recommend looking into a K501. The K702 would not be my recommendation. It's that all capable of a headphone. I mean it's capable, but not so much so it can be considered as an option if you are looking into the T1. To me the K702 is on par with a DT770, not even near what the DT880 does/offers.
   
  I've grown to dislike the K702 somewhat as it sounds wonky to me ears now. It has some odd colorations and resonances that make it sound like plastic. I used to be in love with my K701/K702 but now I pretty much avoid them. Granted the T1 has resonance issues with the inner cup, but felt tames that 100%. Just my $.2 guys. No flaming intended.
   
  Quote: 





acix said:


> The K-702 is the AKG competitor to the T1, here is more info: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595522/akg-k702-vs-beyerdynamic-t1-in-the-studio


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> Also, when I asked before about the phonitor's crossfeed circuits, if used purely as an audiophile amp, are they worth it? I know it was agreed that it adds pleasure
> to listening but is it worth the extra 600 bucks over the auditor? They have the exact same amp parts I read. Does changing the angle of the audio signal at the ear
> create a more realistic sound stage? That would be cool if so.
> 
> Dan


 
   
  The cheapest way to experience crossfeed is to plug your headphone to a Hometheatre receiver, switch between Stereo and then DTS or 5.1 (or something).
  At least when I use for watching movie, I prefer 5.1 setting 90% of the time. 
  It brings the scene in front of you, close to Cinema experience while Stereo is more Left and Right experience.
  I can't say much for music as my receiver is not audiophile enough so I never listen music from them. 
  For now, I am still happy with my 2 channel headphone amp, I never try a good crossfeed like Phonitor at home so I can't comment much on this.
   
  Worth it? try with receiver first see if it worth $600 for you.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





redbull said:


> The cheapest way to experience crossfeed is to plug your headphone to a Hometheatre receiver, switch between Stereo and then DTS or 5.1 (or something).
> At least when I use for watching movie, I prefer 5.1 setting 90% of the time.
> It brings the scene in front of you, close to Cinema experience while Stereo is more Left and Right experience.
> I can't say much for music as my receiver is not audiophile enough so I never listen music from them.
> ...


 
   
  The Phonitor is not a DSP gimmick, is all about analog...  maybe this video will help you understand better.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey,
   
  Honestly I use both Redline Monitor and the Bauer DSP, and it sound nearly the same as the Phonitor's circuit. I had ample time with the Phonitor and say if you want to get a crossfeed that sounds almost the same as the Phonitor, you should use these both in conjunction. It's not 100% the same but very close. So if the same effect can be obtained for much less cash and sound almost the same, then it's a plus to me.
   
  As fr the receiver, I use a NAD T747 and it supports Dolby Headphone. In fact it's DH is better than on the Astro Mixamp. I just can't stand using that surround feature on headphones as it congests the sound. Everything sound swirled together in a blur. I don't like Dolby Headphone, so I run it in stereo mode.
   
  Quote: 





redbull said:


> The cheapest way to experience crossfeed is to plug your headphone to a Hometheatre receiver, switch between Stereo and then DTS or 5.1 (or something).
> At least when I use for watching movie, I prefer 5.1 setting 90% of the time.
> It brings the scene in front of you, close to Cinema experience while Stereo is more Left and Right experience.
> I can't say much for music as my receiver is not audiophile enough so I never listen music from them.
> ...


----------



## RedBull

I agree DSP Surround mode sound hollow and all. I never listen to music through my DSP receiver amp anyway, only for movies it has the needed effect to bring the action in front of you instead of left and right.

I believe Phonitor has a better effect than my 'normal' home theatre DSP processing, I'm just sayin that the cheaper alternative to experience crossfeed is using what you have, in my case is the HT receiver.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

any experiences upgrading from stock power cord to something more shielded? e.g isotek stuff


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> any experiences upgrading from stock power cord to something more shielded? e.g isotek stuff


 
   
  I am curious about upgrading the power cord as well...


----------



## feifan

I've been using the stock power cord with the Phonitor from day one so I'm curious too.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

yeah i chatted with a guy about power this week...at least with power amps it seems a must. He even advocates audiophile powerblocks.
  But this was for a 100,000 quid naim speaker system he has in in shop! I have heard that DACs like Zodiac really benefit from audiophile grade PSUs...but power cords maybe too.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

btw how often do you guys open up your dacs and amps and give them a blow out with some air in a can? I am in a relatively dusty room. 
  Seems i wipe my stuff off daily.


----------



## .Sup

I have a custom made silver plated pins Schuko power cable, shielded but I don't notice any difference.


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> btw how often do you guys open up your dacs and amps and give them a blow out with some air in a can? I am in a relatively dusty room.
> Seems i wipe my stuff off daily.


 

 I definitely should do this. I have an air filter in my room, but there is still tons of dust floating around. The pains of living net to a main road I guess.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

yeah the auditor is hardly vented at all compared to the phonitor! I can imagine you do! lol


----------



## teddytejero

feifan said:


> I've added the following Phonitor/Auditor owners to the roll in the OP. If I missed you or if you'd like to be listed, add a reply in this thread. For me, the interesting thing about the Phonitor is that it grows on you. I use a lot of different gear, and it's only when I return to the Phonitor that I really appreciate its transparency, speed, power, accuracy, and ability to separate, isolate, reposition. It doesn't jump out at you because it does it so easily, naturally, so it's almost as if it's not there. But I notice it, especially when I've been on the iPhone-Klipsch S4 tandem for most of the day.
> 
> 
> 34. daniel_hokkaido: Auditor
> ...




Hi there

Ordered an Auditor and M1 DAC today !


----------



## feifan

Hi, teddytejero. I just added you to the list. Please keep us posted on your experiences with the Auditor and M1 DAC, positives or negatives. If you have any questions, fire away. We can't promise you answers, but we're a diverse lot and may be able to help.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

got some audioquest xlr noise stopper caps last week. I def feel im hearing deeper into the tracks I listen to. brilliant and cheap upgrade imo.


----------



## kawee

I got Phonitor few weeks ago.  In fact, I dont know much about amp and CAS.  I just get started to invest this to enjoy music.  I tried several different amp but really like how it sounds.  First time, I tried Phonitor and I really feel that sounds out from Phonitor is what I am looking for.  Everything is very clear to me.  
   
  It is very nice to see this thread and looking forward to understanding how to make use of the crossfeed and Center function.


----------



## feifan

Hi, kawee, and welcome aboard. I added your name and equipment to the list. You may want to share your current equipment line-up, e.g., the DAC you're using, cans, as well as the genres you listen to.


----------



## feifan

hi, daniel. "audioquest xlr noise stopper caps" - i never thought to control for noise from unused xlr outs. were you having a noise problem prior? my setup seems completely black even though it's surrounded by other equipment emitting extraneous signals.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

yeah man. I really feel they make a difference. I also got rca caps for my Mdac. All in All ... it is a continuation of the blackening 
  and deepening of the presentation..which I started thinking about more since I found that unplugged, my macbook puts out a cleaner
  digitial signal. 
   
  cheap upgrade .. and worth it. I also got a lend of a merlin black widow..a 85 sterling mains cable. I noticed more bass and punch
  from that. kinda makes sense..powering a 600 quid amp with a 2 quid cable is the standard standard to work up from though lol.


----------



## Timmyw

"audioquest xlr noise stopper caps"
   
I have to admit, these look like a hardcore gimmick. 30 bucks for some caps that go over your unused connections? And they are supposed to deepen my soundstage? They aren't in use how can they be picking anything up let alone have you hear it. The DAC/Amp what ever you're using isn't set to that output/input, which means there is no signal path there. 
   
Don't mean to sound harsh or anything, I mean stranger things could happen. But I don't think those are for me. 
   
I have never noticed any difference using different power cables of any kind either. Unless one was faulty or something. I must be on the other side of the fence .
   
I have been in heaven listening to my music all afternoon, just got my MDAC finally and I love it. Everything is right with the world.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

try listening to music for a day with your laptop plugged in ... then try another time unplugged. I personally found there is less noise and 
  you can hear more detail..esp if songs have quieter levels e.g. mixed in field recordings. My local headfi shop told me this plug issue is due to ground loops. 
   
  btw what bitrate are you using? my experience is lower the bit rate, esp with more transparent the audio software (im using audirvana) the more noise (aka veiled sound) can come across.


----------



## teddytejero

feifan said:


> Hi, teddytejero. I just added you to the list. Please keep us posted on your experiences with the Auditor and M1 DAC, positives or negatives. If you have any questions, fire away. We can't promise you answers, but we're a diverse lot and may be able to help.




Hello BoyZ & Gurlz,

My Auditor & M1 DAC by Musical Fidelity are in place and I´m currently listening to ´Alice in chains - Frogs´ unplugged. 

The HD 800 sings and all is good.

Since you asked to fire away any questions .... M1 DAC is connected with optical cable to my laptop (Acer 8940G) 

If I try to change the windows 7 ultimate digital audio HD driver to 2 channel 24bit 192hz the sound is corrupted and beeps

trough the headphone (24bit - 96Hz is ok)

edit :

stupid me ... "_The M1 DAC will handle 24-bit/192kHz material through its coaxial and AES/EBU inputs, and is limited to 24-bit/96kHz through everything else – a fairly typical state of affairs at the moment_."

I´m using mediamonkey (and dfx) with the standard output driver (there is also a WASAPI output driver available / can't install under win7)

The audio performance is very bright perhaps al little to bright ... airy ... I miss some warmness

I also installed winamp5 with the maiko plugin and tried to let mediamonkey use winamp as dedicated player -crash-

The winamp is actually warmer and less intensive on my ears (due to the maiko output plugin?) can't get dfx to work but bass is prominent


Enjjoying the 'gravedigger song' from Dave Matthews Band live performance .... I'm 46 and normally don't sing-along but can't resist .... "gravedigger if you dig my grave ... make it shallow ... so I can hear the rain "

Then my wive closes the door ! 

Some issues I got from other forums :




put volume of "exclusive" mode hd driver max
use 16 bit 44.1 hz output to upsampling DAC
turn off all other audio users (system, mike, ...)


----------



## rezolver

*SPL Auditor (Model 2911)* in *black* with the S/N 11.2911.003xx signing in.
   
  A superb piece of audio engineering.  Powers my HE-500's with authority and has become my go to amp.  
  Great and deep low end with superb control and detail.  Intimate and clear vocals. Natural soundstage. Extended highs w/o fatigue. Very fast and never blurry.  Paint me extremely impressed.
   
  Because this is considered a transparent amp, I'm wondering how much of the sound sig is coming from my DAC.
   
  The Reference 5.2, Auditor and the HE-500's are the 3 amigo's.  Never thought I'd say this BUT, I've reached my audio nirvana and have stopped searching for audio gear upgrades.
   
   

   
  edit:  I love the feet extensions.  Such a simple yet useful feature.  My feet are always extended.
  edit 2: photo


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

haha love the setup pics. wonder what type of baby they'll have  
   
  btw I asked about aftermarket cables before with SPL on this thread. I tried the 250 bucks audioquest NRG-2 cable this weekend on a loan, and I must say
  it does change the sound alot on the SPL. Particularly the bass...which with the HD650s became quite farty on some tracks. The increased power seemed
  to emphasize bass more in general..which I am certain would improve use of HD800s with this amp. I gave my ety er4s iems with adaptor a go with NRG2 and 
  the same tracks..and it really made their normally rolled off bass just that bit more present and engaging. and made the over all sound stage more present 
  and more engaging also. 
   
  Def a good investment with SPL auditor for HD800 type phones with less bass. Since I only have 650s ... im sticking with my merlin back widow..which is 
  circa 100 bucks...as it works well with the 650s. But if i get 800s then the NRG2 is a good option to have. 
   
  just fyi guys


----------



## twizzleraddict

Just joined the SPL Phonitor crowd. Serial # 93002** (got it off a head-fi member here). I'm done on the amp quest for dynamic cans. I'm not moving towards electrostatic headphones yet but this amp does the HD650 and HD700 justice now. There's control, effortlessness of music delivery, details but not to the point of being harsh (more like smoothed out details). This is, as some have put it, the end of the line on solid state amps for dynamic headphones. 
   
  Still playing around with the crossfeed settings but from immediate listening to very familiar tracks, I'm done. All other amps of mine go on sale as a result of this brilliant piece of gear.
   
  Now I've got to upgrade my DAC and I think I'm good for many years on the gear side. Always will itch for different headphones, however.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

what dac did you have, what one you looking at?


----------



## twizzleraddict

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> what dac did you have, what one you looking at?


 
   
  PS Audio Perfectwave DAC. It's a MK I so to get Asynchronous USB, I need to upgrade to MK II. Should be epic after that but it's so good right now that anything else is incremental. I hope I don't go down the path of cable upgrades.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

well good xlr cables are pretty worthwhile


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Hey, does anyone here have any experience with the apex peak amp from TTVJ? I find the auditor does a good job with the HD800 but
  am looking into getting a tube amp at some stage.


----------



## hrbballman

I'm really on the fence about the phonitor.  On one hand I know its an awesome amp and has great reviews and on the other hand I hear that it doesn't pair well with some dacs.  I have the ps audio nuwave and was wondering if anyone had heard them together.  Thanks for any input.  Also, I haven't read through all the posts about the phonitor but has anyone ever mentioned that the black version looks like the the black-faced Sansui gear from the late 70's? I'm a huge Sansui fan and the aesthetics of the Phonitor match the Sansui gear very well.  In particular it looks like it would look good next to an AU-717.


----------



## twizzleraddict

Quote: 





hrbballman said:


> I'm really on the fence about the phonitor.  On one hand I know its an awesome amp and has great reviews and on the other hand I hear that it doesn't pair well with some dacs.  I have the ps audio nuwave and was wondering if anyone had heard them together.  Thanks for any input.  Also, I haven't read through all the posts about the phonitor but has anyone ever mentioned that the black version looks like the the black-faced Sansui gear from the late 70's? I'm a huge Sansui fan and the aesthetics of the Phonitor match the Sansui gear very well.  In particular it looks like it would look good next to an AU-717.


 
   
  I pair my Phonitor to the PS Audio Perfectwave DAC so hopefully some of the similar synergies exist to the Nuwave, which is trickle-down technology from the PWD. Should be ok since I hook up via XLR out on the PWD to the XLR in on the Phonitor. In fact, depending on how "hot" your DAC output is, the Phonitor can adjust for this with the gain reduction ("Dim") switch which reduces things by a straight 20db.


----------



## Zombie_X

Yo,
   
  Nice to see someone with a Auditor/ROC combo. Same here. I used the ROC to boost the signal from my DAC with it's pre-amp function. I then feed it tot he Auditor and sue the Auditor XLR outs to my V200.


----------



## rezolver

Z_X, they are both great amps and I enjoy them equally.
   
  Do you notice that when you go balanced from the Auditor to the V200, the Auditor tends to play at a quieter level when the V200 is not powered up.  Once the V200 is powered up, the Auditor returns to its "normal" volume level?
   
  I notice this with my Auditor feeding my ROC SA via balanced.  For this reason, I leave the ROC SA XLR's unplugged from the Auditor until I'm ready to use the ROC SA.  This behavior was not present while feeding monitors via XLR through the Auditor. Strange.


----------



## Cante Ista

Phonitor and NAD m51 to my HD800 are the closest thing to SR-009 I have ever heard. I have lately been listening to my HE-6 off First Watt F3, which I do love, but a good phonitor set up is tough to beat. And BTW, I am using Flavor 4 as my power cord and King Cobra XLR from audioquest between my DAC and the Amp. HD 800 is cabled with ALO salty pepper (6 ft) and Moon audio black dragon (10 ft), depending on length I need. Anyway, I am surprised that that it is not getting more love out there.


----------



## Cante Ista

Question:
   
  Earlier in this thread some of you have mentioned modding your Phonitor. I saw the opamps discussion and how eventually consensus was that the mod did nothing for the amp.
   
  I am curious whether anyone of you has had any other mods installed and what they are.
   
  Also, Stefan Audio Art offers a mod package (that actually includes opamp replacement). Could anyone comment on that package? Are they selling DC offset opamp replacement, or are they actually changing opamps in the sound signal path? Also, what do you all think about the other mods? Here is the link http://stefanaudioart.com/Phonitor%20mod%20pac. Is it worth the nearly $1000? Would it surpass the performance of something like the GS-X or high end RSA SS amps with those mods?
   
  I would really appreciate the input. Thanks!


----------



## Zombie_X

Hi,
   
  I have not experienced this at all.. It always plays at the same volume no matter if the gear is on or off.
   
  Quote: 





rezolver said:


> Z_X, they are both great amps and I enjoy them equally.
> 
> Do you notice that when you go balanced from the Auditor to the V200, the Auditor tends to play at a quieter level when the V200 is not powered up.  Once the V200 is powered up, the Auditor returns to its "normal" volume level?
> 
> I notice this with my Auditor feeding my ROC SA via balanced.  For this reason, I leave the ROC SA XLR's unplugged from the Auditor until I'm ready to use the ROC SA.  This behavior was not present while feeding monitors via XLR through the Auditor. Strange.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> Question:
> 
> Earlier in this thread some of you have mentioned modding your Phonitor. I saw the opamps discussion and how eventually consensus was that the mod did nothing for the amp.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm as well curious about stefan mod, I mean how much better can it get...on the other hand, a member here said that he didn't find any sound differences with the [size=x-small]Burson Audio HD Opamps. Maybe we can ask [/size][size=x-small]Burson Audio if they're [/size]interested[size=x-small] to run a[/size][size=x-small] [/size][size=x-small]HD Opamps [/size]loan program[size=x-small] for the SPL[size=x-small] amps[/size].[/size]


----------



## rezolver

Z__X, that has me curious.  Ended up purchasing a pair of Neutrik Balanced to female RCA adapters.  With those plugged into the XLR output jacks and not connected to anything on the RCA end, my amp will play at a lower volume.  When the right side adapter is removed, the right side will play louder.  Same goes for the left side.
   
  I am confused more than anything.
   
  The Stefan POT mod would be one I'd bite on for greater smoothness and tactile feel with the possible benefit of better tracking (stock is already good).  The rest of the mods seem frivolous to me.  Always interested in impressions though.


----------



## Acix

So, no one of the SPL owner's interested to participate in [size=small]HD Opamps[/size] loan program?


----------



## Cante Ista

I would but i know nothing about electronics and would be afraid to dig under the hood of electronics. But would love to hear impressions or get together with someone more competent, play around and compare impressions.


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Anyone compared SPL amps to new Senn HDVA amps? I hope at the london headfi meet, but im suspecting the HDVA will win out as I remember 
  doing reference comparisons last weekend with hd650 and hd800 on the HDVA and was astounded at how close the 650 became to the 800. makes me think about
  not getting an hd800 even,,,but the amp and balanced cable for 650s


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> I would but i know nothing about electronics and would be afraid to dig under the hood of electronics. But would love to hear impressions or get together with someone more competent, play around and compare impressions.


 
   
  A bit like a Lego, you'll need to be gentle not to break the host. I've found two clips that shows how...


----------



## Acix

With the Phonitor looks like the Burson Audio HD Op Amps will need the 8 pin dip socket extension, as shows in the photos.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





acix said:


> With the Phonitor looks like the Burson Audio HD Op Amps will need the 8 pin dip socket extension, as shows in the photos.


 
  Thanks man! I am still afraid I would touch something that hold charge (even after unplogging) and send myself to the hospital or the other side! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, this is helpful nonetheless.
  Also, I heard from SPL and was told the majorly of the SSA mod package is not a good idea. I have also reached out to a member, who seem to know what he is talking about when he talks about things I am familiar with (good and honest guy) and he swears by the mods. Go fig.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





acix said:


> This is SPL replay to my question, what op amp there is inside the Phonitor/Auditor.
> 
> Our op-amps are the core elements of the 120V technology ... these are hand-made components which would never fit into any other unit
> And these are no ICs - as single components they look like this :
> ...


 
   
   
  This is what the SPL support team have to say about replacing the op-amps, they simply claim this will not effect the sound!  The Stefan AudioArt mod (http://stefanaudioart.com/Phonitor%20mod%20pac) said the [size=x-small]Burson Audio HD Opamps is a [/size][size=x-small]replacement for Phonitors LT071 op-amps[/size]...for me this is a very odd case![size=x-small] Maybe [/size]during the production time [size=x-small]at SPL [/size]they change the [size=x-small]LT071 to the [/size]*LF 411*? Maybe someone with a electronic background can shed more light over this topic?
   
  Now, I became curious to see what op-amp I have under the hood...and yes, is the LF411. Maybe they put the LT071 in the first Phonitor models (I even not sure if the LF411 can be a replacement for the LT071).


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





acix said:


> This is what the SPL support team have to say about replacing the op-amps, they simply claim this will not effect the sound!  The Stefan AudioArt mod (http://stefanaudioart.com/Phonitor%20mod%20pac) said the [size=x-small]Burson Audio HD Opamps is a [/size][size=x-small]replacement for Phonitors LT071 op-amps[/size]...for me this is a very odd case![size=x-small] Maybe [/size]during the production time [size=x-small]at SPL [/size]they change the [size=x-small]LT071 to the [/size]*LF 411*? Maybe someone with a electronic background can shed more light over this topic?
> 
> Now, I became curious to see what op-amp I have under the hood...and yes, is the LF411. Maybe they put the LT071 in the first Phonitor models (I even not sure if the LF411 can be a replacement for the LT071).


 
  Wait?! What? I am almost sure this is a stupid question, but are some those in the signal path, while the others aren't ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Could it be that SPL changed opamps in signal path, and when SAA talks about changing them, they are actually talking about ones in the signal path? It's just that those were changed and we are now miscommunicating


----------



## elwappo99

If anyone is selling a black auditor, I am looking for one.


----------



## PeterCraig

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> If anyone is selling a black auditor, I am looking for one.


 
   
http://www.spl-usa.com has a promo right now.  I believe you can get a brand new one delivered in the US for $760.  Promo ends end of March.
   
  I just got one from a Canadian distributor and am burning it in right now......
   
  Windows 7 Netbook running Foobar ==> V-Link 192 ==> Straightwire Coax ==> Audio-gd Reference 5.32 ==> Audio-gd XLR ==> Auditor ==> Beyerdynamic T1


----------



## Zombie_X

Hi,
   
  Well you laid it all out quite well. Some XLR plugs like that bridge the shield and ground together which result in lower volume. This is due to shorting. I use the Hosa brand and they work well. Another thought is building your own and leaving the shield solder pad alone. This should leave the volume.
   
  As for OPA's, they don't do anything as the ones installed in the Auditor are for DC. They aren't in the audio signal path. So changing them can be bad if you use the wrong OPA.
   
  Quote: 





rezolver said:


> Z__X, that has me curious.  Ended up purchasing a pair of Neutrik Balanced to female RCA adapters.  With those plugged into the XLR output jacks and not connected to anything on the RCA end, my amp will play at a lower volume.  When the right side adapter is removed, the right side will play louder.  Same goes for the left side.
> 
> I am confused more than anything.
> 
> The Stefan POT mod would be one I'd bite on for greater smoothness and tactile feel with the possible benefit of better tracking (stock is already good).  The rest of the mods seem frivolous to me.  Always interested in impressions though.


----------



## rezolver

Thank you for the excellent explanation Z__X.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hi,
> 
> Well you laid it all out quite well. Some XLR plugs like that bridge the shield and ground together which result in lower volume. This is due to shorting. I use the Hosa brand and they work well. Another thought is building your own and leaving the shield solder pad alone. This should leave the volume.
> 
> As for OPA's, they don't do anything as the ones installed in the Auditor are for DC. They aren't in the audio signal path. So changing them can be bad if you use the wrong OPA.


 

 Yes. Thanks for chiming in on the OPAs. Rather than mod the Phonitor, I may supplement my rig with the new GSX. I need a preamp anyway.


----------



## Timmyw

Hi Guys,
   
  After much deliberating and thought I have decided to sell my Black Phonitor. In fact I think I will be selling my headphones too. I just don't use them any more after setting up my speaker system.
   
  If any one in Australia (For Now) is interested shoot me a PM and we can try and work something out.
   
  I'll put up an ad in the for sale forum.
   
  Cheers


----------



## Zombie_X

Hi,
   
  GSX good, Auditor mod bad. Honestly the mod is pretty much bull for the Auditor, but I don't know for the Phonitor. Are the OPA's removable (not the DC ones)? I use my ROC as a pre-amp and it works very well though the output is low.
   
  Quote: 





cante ista said:


> Yes. Thanks for chiming in on the OPAs. Rather than mod the Phonitor, I may supplement my rig with the new GSX. I need a preamp anyway.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hi,
> 
> GSX good, *Auditor mod bad*. Honestly the mod is pretty much bull for the Auditor, but I don't know for the Phonitor. Are the OPA's removable (not the DC ones)? I use my ROC as a pre-amp and it works very well though the output is low.


 
   
  [size=small]Have you tried the Burson Audio HD Opamps on the Auditor? [/size]


----------



## elwappo99

Has anyone ended up using a resistor in line with the headphone out on this unit to match a lower impedance headphone with this amplifier?


----------



## Zombie_X

Hi,
   
  I tried them and they did nothing to the sound.
   
  Quote: 





acix said:


> [size=small]Have you tried the Burson Audio HD Opamps on the Auditor? [/size]


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hi,
> 
> I tried them and they did nothing to the sound.


 
  Just kind of makes you go hmmmm... looking at the website that sing the praises of mod that will cost a good premium (and increase their bottom line) but has the same effect on sound as changing the VU needles or vu bulbs (or so it seems for what you all and SPL reps have said). I have contacted some members that  have all those mods and they swear by them, but knowing a bit about human psychology, and having communications with SPL reps, I tend to believe you skeptics. Sorry if that offends anyone, but some of the mods to the phonitor out there appear to be unnecessary at best. I think that needs to be said before people waste their money -- I almost did. Thank you all for your input!


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> Just kind of makes you go hmmmm... looking at the website that sing the praises of mod that will cost a good premium (and increase their bottom line) but has the same effect on sound as changing the VU needles or vu bulbs (or so it seems for what you all and SPL reps have said). I have contacted some members that  have all those mods and they swear by them, but knowing a bit about human psychology, and having communications with SPL reps, I tend to believe you skeptics. Sorry if that offends anyone, but some of the mods to the phonitor out there appear to be unnecessary at best. I think that needs to be said before people waste their money -- I almost did. Thank you all for your input!


 

 I will also reinforce what Zombie said, the mods are absolutely unnecessary. Luckily, the stock SPL sound is fantastic right from the start.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Has anyone ended up using a resistor in line with the headphone out on this unit to match a lower impedance headphone with this amplifier?


 
   
  @ 35 ohm the Phonitor sounds great, but I didn't try below that. With the Phonitor you have the -20 DIM function.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





acix said:


> @ 35 ohm the Phonitor sounds great, but I didn't try below that. With the Phonitor you have the -20 DIM function.


 
   
  Awesome. I was leaning towards getting an auditor and tossing a resistor in an adapter. Maybe this will push me towards the Phonitor. Would be handy to have a switch. I still can't decide between this, a S.E.X or a Mjolnir...


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Awesome. I was leaning towards getting an auditor and tossing a resistor in an adapter. Maybe this will push me towards the Phonitor. Would be handy to have a switch. I still can't decide between this, a S.E.X or a Mjolnir...


 
   
  The SPL's trademark '120V' technology smooth the sounds in a way that you'll hear from high end tubes, and this is why some claim that the sound of Phonitor remind them a high end tubes. BTW, I was impressed with the Bottlehead amps.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





acix said:


> The SPL's trademark '120V' technology smooth the sounds in a way that you'll hear from high end tubes, and this is why some claim that the sound of Phonitor remind them a high end tubes. BTW, I was impressed with the Bottlehead amps.


 
   
  So basically I should just get them all?  You're not helping!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The one thing I like about the SPLs is that volume knob. I know it may seem silly, but I miss having a really smooth knob for volume control.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> So basically I should just get them all?  You're not helping!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I didn't say you should get them all... just one SPL , and one Bottlehead. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, the knob feel smooth on both SPL's (I hope this helped a bit more).


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> So basically I should just get them all?  You're not helping!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The volume knob is one of the best, if not the best, of all the gear that I've tried. Really amazing engineering went into these amps.


----------



## elwappo99

Lol!  Unfortunately, I don't have a ton of higher impedance headphones. Are there any headphones you consider real winners with this amp? I hear really mixed things about the HD800, which may end up being my next purchase. 
   
  But after spending 5 months with a burson soloist (and a stepped attenuator) I am ready for a smooth knob!
   
   
  Quote: 





acix said:


> I didn't say you should get them all... just one SPL , and one Bottlehead.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> The volume knob is one of the best, if not the best, of all the gear that I've tried. Really amazing engineering went into these amps.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Lol!  Unfortunately, I don't have a ton of higher impedance headphones. But after spending 5 months with a burson soloist (and a stepped attenuator) I am ready for a smooth knob!


 

 I feel your pain since I use the Burson HA-160 as my primary amp for the TH900s and I really dislike the stepped attenuator, even if it has the added benefits.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> I feel your pain since I use the Burson HA-160 as my primary amp for the TH900s and I really dislike the stepped attenuator, even if it has the added benefits.


 
   
  Sometimes I would change the volume without realizing my D7000 were plugged in. Could make me jump out of my chair sometimes. I understand the benefits, but that popping.... *shivers*
   
  Are there any real winners with this amp in terms of headphones? 
   
  Edit: Also any experience with the low impedance high current headphones like orthodynamics?


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Sometimes I would change the volume without realizing my D7000 were plugged in. Could make me jump out of my chair sometimes. I understand the benefits, but that popping.... *shivers*
> 
> Are there any real winners with this amp in terms of headphones?
> 
> Edit: Also any experience with the low impedance high current headphones like orthodynamics?


 
  HD 800 is absolutely amazing on this amp. I am listening to it now. Like Acix said, the thing sounds like a tube amp with the benefits of SS amp.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hi,
   
  I find that the HD600 sounds amazing with the Auditor. It sounds snappy. No need for $2,000 amps for this headphone. Even the Violectric V100 drives them well.
   
  I also find the T1 to sound great. This amp is made for 600Ohm headphones so the T1 will benefit the most as would vintage AKG K240's. Those K240's are a pain to amp well.
   
  As for orthos, I thought the LCD-2 and HE-400 sounded kinda washed out on the Auditor. This sucker doesn't have a lot of current output.
   
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Are there any real winners with this amp in terms of headphones?
> 
> Edit: Also any experience with the low impedance high current headphones like orthodynamics?


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hi,
> 
> I find that the HD600 sounds amazing with the Auditor. It sounds snappy. No need for $2,000 amps for this headphone. Even the Violectric V100 drives them well.
> 
> ...


 
  Are u 100% asbout that? I am just asking -- not trying to be passive aggressive -- because I think I was that the phonitor has decent current reserves. Could you tell us how you've come to your conclusion. Again, I am just trying to learn -- I am not calling you out. Thanks.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hi,
> 
> I find that the HD600 sounds amazing with the Auditor. It sounds snappy. No need for $2,000 amps for this headphone. Even the Violectric V100 drives them well.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





cante ista said:


> Are u 100% asbout that? I am just asking -- not trying to be passive aggressive -- because I think I was that the phonitor has decent current reserves. Could you tell us how you've come to your conclusion. Again, I am just trying to learn -- I am not calling you out. Thanks.


 
   
   
  Yea! What that guy said ^  Except I'm calling you out!@!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Since you're in the know on this, and I have 0 clue, could you attach a resistor in line with an orthodynamic headphone? Let's say a 450ohm resistor to get closer to the 1.7W it can do at max?


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hi,
> 
> I find that the HD600 sounds amazing with the Auditor. It sounds snappy. No need for $2,000 amps for this headphone. Even the Violectric V100 drives them well.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hehehe, I had the V-100...and I so much prefer the Phonitor and his functions. I've try the HE-500 with the Auditor the current output was enough, I just didn't like this type of sound.


----------



## rezolver

I have owned the Auditor for over 6 months now and its being fed by my Reference 5.2 DAC.  The Auditor synergies with my K501's and HE-500's beautifully.  It has this way of putting a grip on all frequencies and tightens them up, making your headphones sound precise, and without any colouration being added.  You get the RAW result.
  My impressions of the HE-500s on the Auditor and ROC SA being fed by Ref 5.2 DAC can be found in this thread.  The whole frequency spectrum is so well balanced, nothing stands out like a sore thumb that needs to be tamed or changed.  I truly adore this combination
   
  My personal belief is that the Auditor is a very transparent amp, not adding any colour to the sound, so what you are hearing is what your DAC and transport are producing.  If the synergy is not there, I wouldn't be looking at the amp for answers.


----------



## twizzleraddict

They sound wonderful with the HD600s up to the HD800s. I also use the Phonitor with the HE-6s which sounds decent enough but definitely not enough current to drive them properly for orchestra pieces. They do push the HE-6s well for dubstep and electronica music though, surprisingly enough.
   
  I love everything about this amp except the silver brushed aluminum plate always gets these scratches when my fingernail brushes over it. It's easy enough to wipe off but it's annoying. Just a nitpick.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





rezolver said:


> I have owned the Auditor for over 6 months now and its being fed by my Reference 5.2 DAC.  The Auditor synergies with my K501's and HE-500's beautifully.  It has this way of putting a grip on all frequencies and tightens them up, making your headphones sound precise, and without any colouration being added.  You get the RAW result.
> My impressions of the HE-500s on the Auditor and ROC SA being fed by Ref 5.2 DAC can be found in this thread.  The whole frequency spectrum is so well balanced, nothing stands out like a sore thumb that needs to be tamed or changed.  I truly adore this combination
> 
> My personal belief is that the Auditor is a very transparent amp, not adding any colour to the sound, so what you are hearing is what your DAC and transport are producing.  If the synergy is not there, I wouldn't be looking at the amp for answers.


 
   
  Quote: 





twizzleraddict said:


> They sound wonderful with the HD600s up to the HD800s. I also use the Phonitor with the HE-6s which sounds decent enough but definitely not enough current to drive them properly for orchestra pieces. They do push the HE-6s well for dubstep and electronica music though, surprisingly enough.
> 
> I love everything about this amp except the silver brushed aluminum plate always gets these scratches when my fingernail brushes over it. It's easy enough to wipe off but it's annoying. Just a nitpick.


 
   
   
  You guys are killing me! Just as I had written off this amp, you come along and say it plays well with orthos!


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





twizzleraddict said:


> They sound wonderful with the HD600s up to the HD800s.* I also use the Phonitor with the HE-6s which sounds decent enough but definitely not enough current to drive them properly for orchestra pieces. They do push the HE-6s well for dubstep and electronica music though, surprisingly enough.*
> 
> I love everything about this amp except the silver brushed aluminum plate always gets these scratches when my fingernail brushes over it. It's easy enough to wipe off but it's annoying. Just a nitpick.


 
  exactly!


----------



## PeterCraig

Quote: 





rezolver said:


> My personal belief is that the Auditor is a very transparent amp, not adding any colour to the sound, so what you are hearing is what your DAC and transport are producing.  If the synergy is not there, I wouldn't be looking at the amp for answers.


 
   
  I feel exactly the same way as rezolver. 
   
  Today I can listen to an album I have heard for 10, 20, 30 years and feel like I'm finally hearing exactly what the artist and studio tech's put their heart and soul into.


----------



## PeterCraig

Netbook, Auditor and T1 next to my bed.  Audio-gd Ref 5.32 dac and V-Link 192 on the shelf underneath.  Lacie external hard drive underneath the table.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





petercraig said:


> Netbook, Auditor and T1 next to my bed.  Audio-gd dac and V-Link on the shelf underneath.  External hard drive underneath the table.


 
   
  Looks like life it tough up there


----------



## PeterCraig

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Looks like life it tough up there


 

 Us Canadians keep happy keeping it simple.
   
  Nice inventory list btw.....I'd _love _to hear that Reference 1.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





petercraig said:


> Us Canadians keep happy keeping it simple.
> 
> Nice inventory list btw.....I'd _love _to hear that Reference 1.


 
   
  Wow, glad you could cipher what I was saying. Don't know what was happening there. 
   
  Meant:
  "Looks like life is rough up there"
   
   
  The Ref1 is my baby. It's the oldest piece of equipment I have (in terms of ownership) running at just over 3 years now.  I've had cash offers at meets for it, but I doubt I'll ever part.  Even though the PCM1704 is discontinued, I've heard the newer stuff does really well still. If you ever are in the area though, I'm always willing!


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Wow, glad you could cipher what I was saying. Don't know what was happening there.
> 
> Meant:
> "Looks like life is rough up there"
> ...


 
   
  Not yet discontinued ^^ their was a news misleading us at Audio GD but in fact PCM1704 is still in production
   
  http://www.ti.com/product/pcm1704
   
  Phonitor/Auditor are great amps , but don't have any hard to drive headphone currently so


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





havoc-28 said:


> Not yet discontinued ^^ their was a news misleading us at Audio GD but in fact PCM1704 is still in production
> 
> http://www.ti.com/product/pcm1704
> 
> Phonitor/Auditor are great amps , but don't have any hard to drive headphone currently so


 

 I think is more about how the SPL's sounds with most of the headphones compare to the other amps out there... and not necessary if will drive most of the hard to drive headphone on the market.


----------



## rezolver

elwappo, the Ref 5.2 already sounds great with the Auditor and your Reference 1 would sound fantastic I'm sure.
   
  Last night I got lost in the music while listening to the self titled Dire Straits record on the Auditor with my K501's.


----------



## elwappo99

havoc-28 said:


> Not yet discontinued ^^ their was a news misleading us at Audio GD but in fact PCM1704 is still in production
> 
> http://www.ti.com/product/pcm1704
> 
> Phonitor/Auditor are great amps , but don't have any hard to drive headphone currently so




Indeed, unfortunately those chips are harder and harder for kingwa. I think he's shifted his thinking to more available chips. 



rezolver said:


> elwappo, the Ref 5.2 already sounds great with the Auditor and your Reference 1 would sound fantastic I'm sure.
> 
> Last night I got lost in the music while listening to the self titled Dire Straits record on the Auditor with my K501's.




Gah! You're killing me. I'd love to hear a phonitor vs mjolnir shootout, but I suspect that will take awhile. I'm keeping my eyes peeled


----------



## rezolver

Nah, you will live.  Your wallet on the other hand, that will suffer a little. hahha 
   
  I would like to hear any shootout impressions of any SS amp vs the SPL duo.  At this point, I do not have a need to upgrade the SPL as it does not seem to do anything wrong.  Cliche comment I know.
   
  Anyone listening to the HE-500s or K501s on the Auditor like I am?


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Quote: 





rezolver said:


> Nah, you will live.  Your wallet on the other hand, that will suffer a little. hahha
> 
> I would like to hear any shootout impressions of any SS amp vs the SPL duo.  At this point, I do not have a need to upgrade the SPL as it does not seem to do anything wrong.  Cliche comment I know.
> 
> Anyone listening to the HE-500s or K501s on the Auditor like I am?


 
   
  Just first impression, but I found the new Senn HDVA 600 gave my hd650s way more resolution and tightened up their bass. that was just SE output also. No idea how balanced sounds.
  I compared 650s to 800s on the new amp in tandem, and found the amp brought the 650s much closer in performance to 800s that the SPLs can. With the SPLs I find they work v well with 800, less so with 650s. IMO!


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





rezolver said:


> I would like to hear any shootout impressions of any SS amp vs the SPL duo.


 
   
  In my experience with other SS amps (and without mentioning brand names), the SPLs stand out for, transparency, balance, and long listening sessions without any ear fatigue.
   
  I also find out other amps to have more treble energy... and some people think because of that it sounds better, some other amps still using the NE5532 and have a roll-off treble, in this case people think is more natural sounding. For me the SPL's are in the middle, but because the transparency level, maybe some will consider the SPL's on the bright side.


----------



## Cante Ista

acix said:


> In my experience with other SS amps (and without mentioning brand names), the SPLs stand out for, transparency, balance, and long listening sessions without any ear fatigue.
> 
> I also find out other amps to have more treble energy... and some people think because of that it sounds better, some other amps still using the NE5532 and have a roll-off treble, in this case people think is more natural sounding. For me the SPL's are in the middle, but because the transparency level, maybe some will consider the SPL's on the bright side.


Well said!


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> Well said!


 
   
  Waiting to hear your impression about the GS-X mk2.


----------



## twizzleraddict

Anyone use these with a pair of TH900s? I've read from dukesd that the synergy isn't there. Just wanted to see if others had tried this combo and what their impressions are.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





acix said:


> Waiting to hear your impression about the GS-X mk2.


 

 That is gonna be sometime in late spring/early summer. I am (one of) the first people who ordered the 2nd run of the mk2. I will def compare them when I get the GS-X. However, I have read a review by Dreadhead that said that they are VERY similar, espeically running single ended. When I get the GSX I will def post something here though.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> That is gonna be sometime in late spring/early summer. I am (one of) the first people who ordered the 2nd run of the mk2. I will def compare them when I get the GS-X. However, I have read a review by Dreadhead that said that they are VERY similar, espeically running single ended. When I get the GSX I will def post something here though.


 
   
  Okay, I thought it's already running hot...maybe in the meanwhile I'll read Dreadhead review. looks like the Phonitor have a strong competition with the GS-X, and the Bryston BHA-1, both are balanced amps, I wish the Phonitor had the balance option as well.
   
  Now, boths amp the GS-X, and the Bryston BHA-1 are made by a hifi companies, and the SPL's are more high end studio /mastering company, and this parameter can also be a minus, or a plus. .


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





acix said:


> Okay, I thought it's already running hot...maybe in the meanwhile I'll read Dreadhead review. looks like the Phonitor have a strong competition with the GS-X, and the Bryston BHA-1, both are balanced amps, I wish the Phonitor had the balance option as well.
> 
> Now, boths amp the GS-X, and the Bryston BHA-1 are made by a hifi companies, and the SPL's are more high end studio /mastering company, and this parameter can also be a minus, or a plus. .


 

 I also wish Phonitor was balanced. I wonder if you could do the corssfeed then. Could you?


----------



## RedBull

havoc-28 said:


> Not yet discontinued ^^ their was a news misleading us at Audio GD but in fact PCM1704 is still in production
> 
> http://www.ti.com/product/pcm1704




It is discontinued 

www.ti.com/product/docs/productfolder.tsp?genericPartNumber=PCM1704&site_preference=NORMAL

It is replaced by pcm1795. It is just there to support existing customer, probably as spare parts.

Sorry for ot, just curious to understand which is true.


----------



## HaVoC-28

And their is links to buy from distributors like Digikey ? / mouser (any one can buy from this sources) ,  strange for something discontinued wich should be only sold to "existing customers" .
   
  PCM63 for exemple is clearly out of production .
   
  This NRDN status is not very clear .


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> I also wish Phonitor was balanced. I wonder if you could do the corssfeed then. Could you?


 
   
  They probably will need much more space for a full dual mono balanced amp design, about the corssfeed maybe the second time will be even easier, but unfortunately I don't have this knowledge yet, just logic for now.
   
  BTW, the Phonitor XLR balanced out can drive well a balanced T1, the sound is great the bass got tight...but you'll need to be careful with the volume of the foobar player/or the DAC, the volume needs to be at 20% for the start point. Because there is no way to control the level volume coming out from the Phonitor, the XLR out is even strong for the 300ohm of the T1.
   
  I do have sometimes a mixed feelings about those beautifully designs dual mono balanced amps, but when I power up the Phonitor and connect my hps those thoughts disappear in the speed of light.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





acix said:


> They probably will need much more space for a full dual mono balanced amp design, about the corssfeed maybe the second time will be even easier, but unfortunately I don't have this knowledge yet, just logic for now.
> 
> BTW, the Phonitor XLR balanced out can drive well a balanced T1, the sound is great the bass got tight...but you'll need to be careful with the volume of the foobar player/or the DAC, the volume needs to be at 20% for the start point. Because there is no way to control the level volume coming out from the Phonitor, the XLR out is even strong for the 300ohm of the T1.
> 
> I do have sometimes a mixed feelings about those beautifully designs dual mono balanced amps, but when I power up the Phonitor and connect my hps those thoughts disappear in the speed of light.


 
  It sound like the back XLR outputs amp the signal. I thought it was only passive out! Ohhhh man! If I knew that earlier I would have gotten balanced cable for my HD800 in a heartbeat! I already have a preamp for volume control on my m51. So the balanced out on the Phonitor rear works like a power amp, without the crossfeed or volume contorl? Do I have that right?


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> It sound like the back XLR outputs amp the signal. I thought it was only passive out! Ohhhh man! If I knew that earlier I would have gotten balanced cable for my HD800 in a heartbeat! I already have a preamp for volume control on my m51. So the balanced out on the Phonitor rear works like a power amp, without the crossfeed or volume contorl? Do I have that right?


 
   
  I'm also a bit confused, the XLR outputs should be passive of course...the crossfeed and the volume knob do not have any effect on the hps sound, and yet the hps got quite a signal out of the XLR outputs. Maybe I should ask SPL.


----------



## Acix

*This is SPL support team answering to my question.*

 sorry, but I have to ask you to read the manual carefully 
 <http://spl.info/fileadmin/user_upload/anleitungen/english/Phonitor_2730_BA_E.pdf>

 Here's a brief info on connections. Please refer to the manual for further, very important and certainly useful information.

 REAR XLR input: this is the signal input of the Phonitor. Everything you want to hear must be connected here.

 REAR XLR output: the input signal of the Phonitor, as connected to the input XLR socket, is routed straight to the XLR output.
 The signal is not altered in anyway - just hard wired from input to output. This allows to insert the Phonitor into a signal path so that no further source device output is necessary to add the Phonitor to a HiFi setup.
 Example: Source unit (DAW/Interface, Player) > Phonitor > monitor controller, amp/active speakers...

 FRONT Headphone output: This is the only socket for connection of headphones. No matter which one, without any exception. If you connect a headphone to the Phonitor, you connect it at the front panel.

 Any further questions, let me know.

 Best regards.
   
*lol, in this case what I hearing out of the Phonitor is actually my DAC balanced outputs?*


----------



## Cante Ista

now I feel better about my GSX purchase.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





acix said:


> *lol, in this case what I hearing out of the Phonitor is actually my DAC balanced outputs?*


 
   
  ouch Acix, how long have you been listening this way?


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> ouch Acix, how long have you been listening this way?


 
   
  Hehehe, I've checked this option only ones, to see if I'll get any sound out of the Phonitor XLR outputs. The point is that the sound I was getting, was actually my DAC sound through the Phonitor. I can just connect a balanced hps directly to my DAC XLR outputs and will be the same.


----------



## Acapella11

Dear Phonitor and Auditor appreciators,
   
  I am signing in with an Auditor.
   
  My Auditor chain is as follows: HE-500 (or K501) <-  Auditor  <-[Chord Cobra XLR]-  Audiolab M-DAC  <-[USB]-  Foobar (WASAPI).
   
  I appreciate the holographic type of reproduction with extended and non-fatiguing treble. Mids are clean and expressive, bass is very well articulated and detailed, never overshadowing the rest of the scene. Every instrument gets its defined volume on stage and attention. The stage is nicely large on the HE-500, even though the amp does "only" 400 mW at ~38 ohm. It is a very pleasant sound experience close to the sound of a neutral kind of tube amp, but then very detailed Solid State. It is also versatile, as it drives additionally my K501 nicely.


----------



## rezolver

Acapella, congrats on the Auditor. It truly makes those headphones sing.  How does it compare to you Little Dot III?  How does your M-DAC compare to other DAC's out there?
   
  For a second there I thought you had ran sacked my place and scooped my gear while I was away this weekend 
   
  p.s. You have a great taste in headphones


----------



## rezolver

daniel, I am glad to hear that the Auditor plays very well with the HD800s.  That is the next headphone on my radar to purchase.  I have been going back and forth on the idea though. What happens is I will sit down and listen to the K501s and HE500s and completely forget that I need a HD800.  For the first time in this hobby I am not chasing to improve on a piece of gear.
   
  It would be nice to hear what all the fuss is about on the HD800s though. Soundstage, detail retrieval, etc, etc.  It is the unknowns which have peaked my interest. hahha.  Ignorance is bliss at the moment.


----------



## Acapella11

Quote: 





rezolver said:


> Acapella, congrats on the Auditor. It truly makes those headphones sing.  How does it compare to you Little Dot III?  How does your M-DAC compare to other DAC's out there?
> 
> For a second there I thought you had ran sacked my place and scooped my gear while I was away this weekend
> 
> p.s. You have a great taste in headphones


 
   
  Hey Rezolver, did you check your gear just now?  Thanks 
   
 OK, Little dot is a long story, as it all comes down to which tubes you use, and definitely, the standard kind of tubes are not the ones. However, if you use 6N6P-IR power tubes (mine are from 1974) and CV4015 driver tubes, you can create a signature, which is very similar to the Auditor. I was really surprised about that. But then, the Auditor has more definition and that is expressed in a better three-dimensional reproduction of instruments etc. Of course, the Auditor sounds also a bit more dynamic and non-stressed, it just has more power and doesn't overdrive. There are new higher gain tubes, completely new families discussed at the moment, which may actually give the LD more power, enough to drive the HE-500 "sufficiently" (kind of) and you could buy for $300 some really fancy power tubes too. However, the Auditor is better than the best I heard from the Little Dot.
  
 The Audiolab-M, I found has some traits, which I liked with the Musical Fidelity M1, as in holographic sound reproduction. The Audiolab offers a larger stage though and is also versatile due to different digital filters. The Beresford Caiman has an even larger stage than the Audiolab-M, but it does not image musicians or instruments as well as the Audiolab-M does. So, I use the Audiolab these days.
  
 I would have been curious to hear the Auditor with your Audio-gd Reference 5.2, also. Maybe someone brings one along on the London Meet in April 
  
 HD800 next then?


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

I found the HD800s do add what you say..really emotional visceral with good, live recordings. After trying my hd650s with the new senn hdva amp im not so sold on 
  them though. I found that amp added the tightness and resolution I find the hd650s lack on the auditor. But imo the auditor is a lovely, warm and quite
  relaxed amp. Im not sure why people think its so neutral. Its great though! I found audioquest nrg-2 mains cable added bass weight for use with HD800s..but too much with
  HD650,,,it made them farty.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





daniel_hokkaido said:


> I found the HD800s do add what you say..really emotional visceral with good, live recordings. After trying my hd650s with the new senn hdva amp im not so sold on
> them though. I found that amp added the tightness and resolution I find the hd650s lack on the auditor. But imo the auditor is a lovely, *warm and quite*
> *relaxed amp*.* Im not sure why people think its so neutral.* Its great though! I found audioquest nrg-2 mains cable added bass weight for use with HD800s..but too much with
> HD650,,,it made them farty.


 
  after living with it for while, and having had the opurtinity to hear other amps, I have to agree that it is right off center on the cool-warm scale. Like it has been said in the past, it has almost tubby sound sig. I listened to it all weekend with my hd800 and on some tracks I was amazed when i thought call this can bass-light. I think people call it neutral becuase if i recall correctly it measures that way. I am not sure where I saw that so dont quote me on it. And I do think that it is largely a flat freq resp, but the bit of lushness tilt (for an SS amp) gives it that warm feeling. Combining that with the crossfeed functions, this the phonitor is a very very special amp.


----------



## redmagic

What are some good DACs to pair with the Phonitor in the <=$500 price range? I will be using the DAC with the Beyerdynamic DT 880s and the HiFiManHE-500s if that matters.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





redmagic said:


> What are some good DACs to pair with the Phonitor in the <=$500 price range? I will be using the DAC with the Beyerdynamic DT 880s and the HiFiManHE-500s if that matters.


 
   
  I'm using the Apogee mini DAC with my Phonitor, you can try to get a used one for around $600.


----------



## twizzleraddict

If you believe someone who recently suggested the ODAC sounds no different than a PWDII, you might want to try that.


----------



## redmagic

Wouldn't I want a balanced DAC to go with the Phonitor?


----------



## twizzleraddict

Quote: 





redmagic said:


> Wouldn't I want a balanced DAC to go with the Phonitor?


 
   
  Yes, stand corrected, but you could theoretically use RCA to XLR adapters. But you're correct in that it's not a straightforward fit.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





redmagic said:


> Wouldn't I want a balanced DAC to go with the Phonitor?


 
   
  Use what ever DAC you want , balanced or not . First i used a NFB-17.2 balanced DAC , but the ODAC sounded the same ... just the volume was a bit lower with ODAC ...Send a mail to SPL and see what they will tell you


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Quote: 





redmagic said:


> Wouldn't I want a balanced DAC to go with the Phonitor?


 
   
  I use audiolab mdac. I find it works well for the price, and its balanced. its 1k new, but try for a second hand one too.


----------



## Acix

If you're using a tower computer with a PCI slots, the RME Digi 96/8 PAD (24/96 around $100 used) will be a great value.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





redmagic said:


> What are some good DACs to pair with the Phonitor in the <=$500 price range? I will be using the DAC with the Beyerdynamic DT 880s and the HiFiManHE-500s if that matters.


 
  I bet you can get the PS Audio Digital LinkIII for that much. I think it is out of production though and you would have to get used. Still it is very smooth sounding dac and as balanced and RCA out.


----------



## redmagic

I think I may raise my budget up to $700. What could I get for DACs in that price range?


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

just dont get the dac magic Plus


----------



## redmagic

daniel_hokkaido said:


> just dont get the dac magic Plus



Whats wrong with the DacMagic+? It seems good enough. Oh, and would the Benchmark DAC1 be a good match with the Phonitor and the aforementioned headphones? I was offered it on another forum for $600.

EDIT: Added the thing about the DAC1


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





redmagic said:


> I think I may raise my budget up to $700. What could I get for DACs in that price range?


 
   
  With that budget you have a lot of wiggle room. I'd easily suggest popping on the For Sale section and getting a good price on a used Audio-GD Dac in their higher end. I tested and owned many many DACs. Once I got a higher end Audio-GD dac, I totally stopped looking into newer ones in terms of ownership. They trump all others.
   
  Quote: 





redmagic said:


> Whats wrong with the DacMagic+? It seems good enough. Oh, and would the Benchmark DAC1 be a good match with the Phonitor and the aforementioned headphones? I was offered it on another forum for $600.
> 
> EDIT: Added the thing about the DAC1


----------



## redmagic

elwappo99 said:


> With that budget you have a lot of wiggle room. I'd easily suggest popping on the For Sale section and getting a good price on a used Audio-GD Dac in their higher end. I tested and owned many many DACs. Once I got a higher end Audio-GD dac, I totally stopped looking into newer ones in terms of ownership. They trump all others.



Alright, after looking on the FS section, I seem to have found 6 contenders. The 6 contenders are as follows:


 Schiit Gungnir w/ USB - $725
 PS Audio NuWave DAC - $750
 Audio-gd NFB 1.32 - $600
 Yulong Sabre D18 - $600
 Lavry DA-10 -$650
 Burson Audio DA-160 - $625

Any ideas on which one is the best for quality and money?


----------



## twizzleraddict

Quote: 





redmagic said:


> Alright, after looking on the FS section, I seem to have found 6 contenders. The 6 contenders are as follows:
> 
> Schiit Gungnir w/ USB - $725
> PS Audio NuWave DAC - $750
> ...


 
   
  I would drop the Burson from the list. When compared with a PS Audio PWDII, it was noticeably lacking in resolution. The NuWave derives much of its design to the PWDII so should be similar. I had a Lavry DA-10 from a while back when it was in my 2-ch system and it was very detailed but ultimately sterile to me (I had electrostatic speakers which allowed for a quite resolving presentation). It lacked emotion for the most part...


----------



## redmagic

twizzleraddict said:


> I would drop the Burson from the list. When compared with a PS Audio PWDII, it was noticeably lacking in resolution. The NuWave derives much of its design to the PWDII so should be similar. I had a Lavry DA-10 from a while back when it was in my 2-ch system and it was very detailed but ultimately sterile to me (I had electrostatic speakers which allowed for a quite resolving presentation). It lacked emotion for the most part...



Alright, it seems the Burson is off the list and from how do you described the Lavry that is probably off the list too.


----------



## Cante Ista

I have seen positive comments onD18. I have not heard it thou. If I were u I would read up on it. Good luck!


----------



## daniel_hokkaido

Quote: 





redmagic said:


> Whats wrong with the DacMagic+? It seems good enough. Oh, and would the Benchmark DAC1 be a good match with the Phonitor and the aforementioned headphones? I was offered it on another forum for $600.
> 
> EDIT: Added the thing about the DAC1


 
   
  I mentioned the plus due to your budget (it has hp amp). I owned the dac magic (no hp amp) an found it really harsh and digital. no sense of reality about it. The Mdac I have now is better but still pretty flat and 
  not so dynamic. Yeah benchmark are well regarded. I know their DAC2 HGC ($2K) is one id love to home trial.


----------



## twizzleraddict

Quote: 





redmagic said:


> Alright, it seems the Burson is off the list and from how do you described the Lavry that is probably off the list too.


 
   
  I would also be careful with system matching. The Lavry can be mated well with better upstream gear and might actually sound good with the Phonitor/Auditor pairing, as the SPL amps are pretty smooth sounding.
   
  I think the way I used the Lavry at the time was driving it through a Cary PP tube amp (Rocket 88) in Pentode mode (needed the power for the Martin Logan electrostatics I had back then). Therefore, the sound was a bit "rough around the edges" and sort of "harsh" for me. However, it might be a good choice with the SPL.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> With that budget you have a lot of wiggle room. I'd easily suggest popping on the For Sale section and getting a good price on a used Audio-GD Dac in their higher end. I tested and owned many many DACs. Once I got a higher end Audio-GD dac, I totally stopped looking into newer ones in terms of ownership. *They trump all others.*


 
   
  There's a whole new world out there waiting for you... in this new world you have the high end studio DACs, like the new Apogee's, Antelope Eclipse, Lavry Blue/Gold, Prism, Weiss, Lynx, Benchmark, RME, maybe I forgot a few but I think you've got the point. I mean there are so many great DACs out there to check out, will be a bit sad to stop your wonderful audio journey with Audio-GD, especially if you got one of the SPL amps.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





acix said:


> There's a whole new world out there waiting for you... i*n this new world you have the high end studio DACs, like the new Apogee's, Antelope Eclipse, Lavry Blue/Gold, Prism, Weiss, Lynx, Benchmark, RME, maybe I forgot a few but I think you've got the point.* I mean there are so many great DACs out there to check out, will be a bit sad to stop your wonderful audio journey with Audio-GD, especially if you got one of the SPL amps.


 
  Yeah, but if he is happy with what he is got, I am sure his wallet is also happier. Stop tempting us!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  BTW, I love the album Acix! Just wanted to give it a shout our on a public forum.


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## Acix

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> Yeah, but if he is happy with what he is got, I am sure his wallet is also happier. Stop tempting us!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for compliment!! about the DACs I'm tempting my self as well ...I love my Phonitor, but I also want to hear the Bryston BHA and the GS-X mk2. I want to bring to my studio most of the high end studio DACs that I've mention before. I guess in away I'm happy to continue my audio adventures, I mean this is a part of what we're doing here, right?


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## Cante Ista

Quote: 





acix said:


> Thanks for compliment!! about the DACs I'm tempting my self as well ...I love my Phonitor, but I also want to hear the Bryston BHA and the GS-X mk2. I want to bring to my studio most of the high end studio DACs that I've mention before. I guess in away I'm happy to continue my audio adventures,* I mean this is a part of what we're doing here, right?*


 
  Totally, I was just messing with you. I would love to hear and maybe get those dacs myself. I had the weiss dac in my sights for a while. It is priced outside of my reach, for a long while at least.


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## Acix

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> Totally, I was just messing with you. I would love to hear and maybe get those dacs myself. I had the weiss dac in my sights for a while. It is priced outside of my reach, for a long while at least.


 
   
  I know you're messing me around... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Both Weiss DACs _(DAC2/ 202)_ are on top of my list, also the Antelope Eclipse, and the Lynx aurora/ Hilo. I'll need just to bring them all to my studio at the same time for comparison, and this can cost me a lot especially here in Israel.


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## Cante Ista

Quote: 





acix said:


> I know you're messing me around...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## gzone3lement

Quote: 





acix said:


> Thanks for compliment!! about the DACs I'm tempting my self as well ...I love my Phonitor, but I also want to hear the Bryston BHA and the GS-X mk2.


 
   
  X2. I'm very curious in how the SPL Phonitor stacks up with the GS-X mk2.


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## Cante Ista

I will write up a review after I receive my GSX, which I think will be about a month or so in the future. I do like my Phoinitor and in the past people said that it stocks up well against the GSX, but that was before MK2, so it I am curious how these two compare now.


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## gzone3lement

cante ista said:


> I will write up a review after I receive my GSX, which I think will be about a month or so in the future. I do like my Phoinitor and in the past people said that it stocks up well against the GSX, but that was before MK2, so it I am curious how these two compare now.




I look forward to it!


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## Cante Ista

edit


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## Headampbro

Does anyone have a good impression for pairing the DAC (gamma y1/y2 Full++) with phonitor for T1 and HD800??


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## Acix

headampbro said:


> Does anyone have a good impression for pairing the DAC (gamma y1/y2 Full++) with phonitor for T1 and HD800??


 
  
  
 No experience with the gamma, but I was surprised how easy is to spot the differences between hi-end DAC's with the Phonitor


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## Orland

Recently got Phonitor 2730, listening mainly on Sennheiser HD650. I'm was really surprised, how HD650 can perform with right amplification. Don't tried to listen with crossfeed, just enjoying music. Now, i'm thinking i need to look forward HD800.


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## daniel_hokkaido

orland said:


> Recently got Phonitor 2730, listening mainly on Sennheiser HD650. I'm was really surprised, how HD650 can perform with right amplification. Don't tried to listen with crossfeed, just enjoying music. Now, i'm thinking i need to look forward HD800.


 
  
 yeah hd800 is a good match with the SPL amps


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## Beocord

I just bought Phonitor 2730. It had been on my "if only" list for a long time...but I knew I would never have afford to buy one. Now that I had to change buy a used one for what I thought was an excellent price I did not hesitate. I still have not received it though. I was supposed to buy meier daccord but now with phonitor I don't need a dac with crossfeed. There are a lot of recommandions for dac's in this thread but I was thinking if there are some new ones that I should also consider. I'm willing to pay max 700 euros but preferably closer to 500€. Also if the dac is available in eu for a reasonable price would be awesome. For example schiit gungnir would cost me close to 1200$ after shipping, vat and toll fees. I was also wondering how good is phonitor considered these days? I hope it's not severely outdated compared to newer amps...
  
 EDIT: I have no use for preamp function, remote or other extra stuff. I prefer to spent on sound quality only. Both usb and coax input would be nice but one or the other will do. Of course it would be nice if dac would visually match phonitor. I mean it would be cool if it was longer than wider in dimensions. And of course silver would be the preferred color to match my phonitor. All that would be only icing on the cake though...sound quality is the absolute priority.


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## sssboa

Hi
 Anyone experiencing static noises in Phonitor on the headphone output? I do. They come up with or without the sourse xlr cables connected at the back.
 Regards
 Andy


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## Beocord

I don't...and sorry I can't help you. Just thought I'd I answer just for the sake bump.


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## Timmyw

sssboa said:


> Hi
> Anyone experiencing static noises in Phonitor on the headphone output? I do. They come up with or without the sourse xlr cables connected at the back.
> Regards
> Andy


 
 Yep I am. I have had it in the shop and no help so it's just sitting there doing nothing. I was going to sell it but I can't really while it's doing that. I believe it's one of the OP amps but I am not sure for certain.
  
 At first I thought it might have been a noisy pot but that turned out to not be the case, I also thought it might have been RFI. But I had the thing wrapped in a faraday cage and it still did it. Unfortunately it costs an utter packet for it to be even looked at let alone fixed so I guess I am out 1 Phonitor.
  
 No response from SPL either.


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## elwappo99

timmyw said:


> sssboa said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...


 
  
 Wow that's a total bummer, and really disappointing to hear. With a unit that has so many knobs and bells and whistles going on, I'd really be expecting a good support system to help fix any issues.


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## daniel_hokkaido

Hey All 
  
 Just FYI 
  
 Im selling my Auditor atm. Would consider offers. http://www.head-fi.org/t/714003/spl-auditor-for-sale-excellent-condition


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## sssboa

sssboa said:


> Hi
> Anyone experiencing static noises in Phonitor on the headphone output? I do. They come up with or without the sourse xlr cables connected at the back.
> Regards
> Andy


 

 Irony is I had exactly the same problem with modulated static noises from my Cambridge DAC connected to the Phonitor. It was tested by producer and said to be uneconomic to repair, I had just replaced the DAC a month ago and I got the same thing from Phonitor now.


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## sssboa

timmyw said:


> Yep I am. I have had it in the shop and no help so it's just sitting there doing nothing. I was going to sell it but I can't really while it's doing that. I believe it's one of the OP amps but I am not sure for certain.
> 
> At first I thought it might have been a noisy pot but that turned out to not be the case, I also thought it might have been RFI. But I had the thing wrapped in a faraday cage and it still did it. Unfortunately it costs an utter packet for it to be even looked at let alone fixed so I guess I am out 1 Phonitor.
> 
> No response from SPL either.


 

 UK distributor just answered me that they can service my Phonitor. Now I asked them about the costs. Are you from UK?


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## Timmyw

sssboa said:


> UK distributor just answered me that they can service my Phonitor. Now I asked them about the costs. Are you from UK?


 
  
 Unfortunately I am in Australia. There's a place I can send my Phonitor to, but I am worried about costs (And the service center were ambiguous in this regard, telling me it "could be anything" which had my wallet shaking) and not sure it would be economically efficient to get it repaired or just put the money towards a new amp. 
  
 I have already had it into an Audio guy locally here but he basically did nothing and charged me 150 dollars. Not keen on something like that happening again


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## sssboa

Anyone had experience with SPL distributor in UK called Hand in Hand and their servicing?


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## .Sup

zombie_x said:


> As for orthos, I thought the LCD-2 and HE-400 sounded kinda washed out on the Auditor. This sucker doesn't have a lot of current output.




This amp has a lot of current. Enough for both orthos in my sig. I listen on 8.30 with HE-4 and on 8 o'clock with HE-500. I tried a speaker amp and didn't get anything more, only less in terms f transparency.
I have my Auditor and Ref5 always on since a couple days ago and now the sound is even better.

I noticed one interesting thing today - when I connect cables to passive output the Auditor is about 20% quieter. Just cables, nothing on the other side and even if its connected to something its still quieter. Weird that I only noticed this now after 4 years.


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## rezolver

My impressions mirror .Sup's.  When switching from the Auditor to the ROC SA, I do not notice any more "drivability" of my HE-500's, only a different presentation.
  
 The power 'arms race' at HF is extremely exaggerated.


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## PeterCraig

Not many posts here lately...so I thought I would post to keep the thread alive 
  
 Still loving my Auditor after about a year and a half.  Paired up with an Audio-gd Master 7 and Beyerdynamic T1.
  
 The SPL is a nice extremely solid piece of gear.


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## PAM005

Just bought myself a secondhand SPL Phonitor 2730 amp to play a little with the Crossfeed functions. With LCD-X great partnership! Listening to Fink at the moment - spacious, "speakerlike" presentation  A surprising amp worth investing to complement my Tube-headphoneamp.
  
 Gonna play again with settings to find optimal setup...


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## PeterCraig

pam005 said:


> Just bought myself a secondhand SPL Phonitor 2730 amp to play a little with the Crossfeed functions. With LCD-X great partnership! Listening to Fink at the moment - spacious, "speakerlike" presentation  A surprising amp worth investing to complement my Tube-headphoneamp.
> 
> Gonna play again with settings to find optimal setup...


 
 Sounds great.  I have the Auditor and would love a try with the Phonitor crossfeed.
  
 Try your Phonitor with your T1.  They work very well together.


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## PAM005

petercraig said:


> Sounds great.  I have the Auditor and would love a try with the Phonitor crossfeed.
> 
> Try your Phonitor with your T1.  They work very well together.


 

 Hi PeterCraig,
  
 Thanks, I'm gonna try my T1 tonight. I did hear the Auditor also. Same soundsignature. But Crossfeed makes listening even more fun.... I can't say - drop by  Sorry!


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## wberghofer

petercraig said:


> Try your Phonitor with your T1.  They work very well together.


 
  
 Confirmed. I use this combination since August 2014 and I’m very happy with it:
  


 SPL Phonitor 2, serial #: 14.1281.00101
 Beyerdynamic T1, serial #: 5902
  
 Werner.


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## PAM005

Hi Werner,
  
 Indeed I did try the Phonitor with T1. Great (technical) combo I think... Compared to my tube amp music has less sparkles - but Crossfeed bring different presentation! As said, I think it's a good extension of my Headfi collection


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## wberghofer

pam005 said:


> […] Compared to my tube amp music has less sparkles […]


 
  
 That’s true, but the detail resolution, the layering, the perspective and the effortless dynamics of the SPL Phonitor 2 are unmatched by any other headphone amplifier I own. The Schiit Valhalla sounds very fine, at first glance the Schiit Lyr has a lot of power, but sometimes tends to sound a little bit rough.


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## PAM005

wberghofer said:


> That’s true, but the detail resolution, the layering, the perspective and the effortless dynamics of the SPL Phonitor 2 are unmatched by any other headphone amplifier I own. The Schiit Valhalla sounds very fine, at first glance the Schiit Lyr has a lot of power, but sometimes tends to sound a little bit rough.


 

 Agree ! I don't know how Phonitor I compares to the Phonitor 2, but i do regonize your description!


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## wberghofer

pam005 said:


> […] I don't know how Phonitor I compares to the Phonitor 2 […]


 
  
 According to → this article by George Walker Petit the Phonitor 2 seems to sound “better”.
  
 Werner.


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## PAM005

wberghofer said:


> According to → this article by George Walker Petit the Phonitor 2 seems to sound “better”.
> 
> Werner.


 

 Regarding reputation of SPL company - I think this will be true... so still have some future ambitions left


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## Armaegis

Has anyone here heard the SPL Crimson?


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## frahengeo

pam005 said:


> Just bought myself a secondhand SPL Phonitor 2730 amp to play a little with the Crossfeed functions. With LCD-X great partnership! Listening to Fink at the moment - spacious, "speakerlike" presentation  A surprising amp worth investing to complement my Tube-headphoneamp.
> 
> Gonna play again with settings to find optimal setup...


 
 I just bought a 2nd-hand phonitor as well.  I bought it to pair with my HD800, but it does sound great with my LCD-XCs as well.  Earlier posts in this thread hint that the Phonitor does not play well with low impedance HP, but it sounds good.  No hiss or any unwanted noise.  I don't even have the DIM switch on the '-20' setting.


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## PAM005

Indeed, you don't have to use DIM switch. Although XC having low impedance, efficiency isn't that much generally spoken. You can't compare with low impedance like Grado for example...


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## PAM005

pam005 said:


> Just bought myself a secondhand SPL Phonitor 2730 amp to play a little with the Crossfeed functions. With LCD-X great partnership! Listening to Fink at the moment - spacious, "speakerlike" presentation  A surprising amp worth investing to complement my Tube-headphoneamp.
> 
> Gonna play again with settings to find optimal setup...


 

 Despite having bought this amp recently - I have to let this beauty go, because my wife thinks (and to be honest me also ) my headphone-rig is getting to large...
 I have to make choices - and I won't sell my Studio Six!


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## ScubadudeSA

New to the Phonitor club here!

Bought a very gently used 2730B (serial number 93000**) on the weekend. In perfect nick and complete with original packaging. Being stuck here in sunny South Africa means the market for these toys is very small ... hence I paid much less than the going international price  

My system is:

Dell i7 --> USB cable --> NAD D1050 / NuPrime uDSD (battery-pack powered) --> Balanced XLR --> Phonitor --> Senn HD600 / HD540 Reference Gold / HD800 (still in transit) / Grado SR60i

Hugely impressed with this masterful amp I am! Waiting for the HD800's to arrive ... will have to be absolutely stunning to better the synergy with the HD600's ...


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## frahengeo

Scubadude,

Welcome to the club! Like you, I bought mine used and have been happy with it. I use mine with my HD800s and occasionally with my Audeze XCs.
Are you saying that the headphone market in South Africa is small because the weather is so nice, and everyone would rather be outside enjoying the weather? Well, here in New England USA there isn't enough sunshine with plenty of snow starting typically in December until March. The upside is that there is time for my toys...


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## ScubadudeSA

frahengeo said:


> Scubadude,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks for the welcome!

Well a combination of factors ... weather is one thing, but also our population is about one eighth that the of the USA and GDP per capita also about one eighth that of the USA. So much fewer people and even less with disposable income for exotic toys. Can't be more than a handful of Phonitors in South Africa ... I know of about six units (excluding the Mini).


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## Synthax

+1 with my:


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## DC5Zilla

My current rig is Concero HD > Liquid Carbon > Noble 8C and thinking about building a new HD800S rig.  I've never heard Phonitor before but do do those "matrix" settings make your headphone sounds like a speaker?  If so, I really need to start saving money for the new Phonitor X...


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## Synthax

dc5zilla said:


> My current rig is Concero HD > Liquid Carbon > Noble 8C and thinking about building a new HD800S rig.  I've never heard Phonitor before but do do those "matrix" settings make your headphone sounds like a speaker?  If so, I really need to start saving money for the new Phonitor X...




Not exactly. This works very delicate. Rather to make less ear fatigue than to simulate speakers. It is also very headphone dependent ( in scale of influence )


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## Roderick

Xlr input on my phonitor 2730 is loose. Anyone else had similar issues with phonitor or other gear with xlr inputs? I could live with the loose connection. Even if I wiggle the cables there is no sound cut out or channel imbalance. Thing is I have to downgrade my system so I would like to fix the problem before selling my amp. Any way to fix it? I've tested the connector with two different set of cables, both with neutrik connectors.
  
 I'm the second owner of the amplifier and I think it was like this when I got it. So maybe the connection is supposed to wobble a bit?


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## fabriciom (Oct 8, 2020)

Hello,

Anyone have schematics for the 2730?

Im having a bit of problems with the jack and wanted to see if I can replace the IC.


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## John Buchanan

Finally got rid of the intermittent fizz/crackling that really annoyed me with the original Phonitor 2730B - I eventually came to the conclusion that it may be connected with start up and track changes of the external Pioneer CD/DVD/Blu-ray drive. Put a ferrite bead on the USB cable between the drive and the dock....and....noises begone! Most headphone amps filtered out the noise, but the Phonitor needed a less contaminated feed. Cost - about 50c.
It's a superb amp even without the crosstalk, speaker angle and central image alterations. Fortunately, I got mine years ago for AUS$1000 when the Phonitor 2 was released. IMHO, it looks better than the Phonitor 2, as the VU meters are symmetrical about the giant volume control.


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## John Buchanan

John Buchanan said:


> Finally got rid of the intermittent fizz/crackling that really annoyed me with the original Phonitor 2730B - I eventually came to the conclusion that it may be connected with start up and track changes of the external Pioneer CD/DVD/Blu-ray drive. Put a ferrite bead on the USB cable between the drive and the dock....and....noises begone! Most headphone amps filtered out the noise, but the Phonitor needed a less contaminated feed. Cost - about 50c.
> It's a superb amp even without the crosstalk, speaker angle and central image alterations. Fortunately, I got mine years ago for AUS$1000 when the Phonitor 2 was released. IMHO, it looks better than the Phonitor 2, as the VU meters are symmetrical about the giant volume control.


Scratch the above - the intermittent noise is still there, more so with low impedance headphones. It was almost inaudible with Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 2 (600 ohms). Currently trying using the Dim switch and higher volume control setting. I'll get back to this thread if anything positive comes of it.It's such a beautiful piece of gear, I just can't bin it.


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## John Buchanan (Aug 4, 2022)

Using much lower impedance phones now than the above Beyerdynamic T1 Gen. 2 (see the signature) except for the Mysphere 3.2 (110 Ohms).


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## John Buchanan

The original Phonitor is rather nice with AKG K812 headphones, despite their low impedance. The Phonitor was a real ground breaker at the time it was issued, and paired they have some magic happening. Currently feeding it all with the fixed DAC output of the Burson Conductor 3X Reference.


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