# Resistance of cables; pics, comments, and links



## hakuzen (Aug 26, 2020)

Links to sections:

- cables *below 400mΩ* measurements
..............pics, comments, and links, part *1*
..............pics, comments, and links, part *2*
..............pics, comments, and links, part *3*
..............pics, comments, and links, part *4*
..............pics, comments, and links, part *5*
..............pics, comments, and links, part *6*
- cables for KZs (*below $40*, most below $25) measurements
..............pics, comments, and links, part *1*
..............pics, comments, and links, part *2*

- jack adapters (measurements, pics, and links)


I've created this thread because some people suggested that the measurements info should be found easier, rather than buried in posts from different threads, and because updating the info is also easier for me this way.

We can keep discussing in the low end cables thread, or KZ thread in case of cables for KZs.
But feel free to comment or discuss here as well, if you like..
Rules are the usual head-fi rules for threads.

These lists pretend to be a compendium of recent cables, which provide good value (affordable decent quality). Most are chinese ("chicables").
The number preceding each cable is chosen arbitrarily as convenient identification (sorry for the "cryptic" numbers, but after watching the pics at spoiler section twice, you'll get used to the numbers of the cables you are interested of).
You can find pics, comments and links (no banned seller links, nor links when the cable is widely spread) at spoiler sections.


*Low resistance* is symptom of quality of wires, plugs, and solders (together with total thickness of the conductor, of course).
Low resistance is important to get minimum total output impedance, in order to minimize tonal alterations when using IEM with balanced armatures.
It's also convenient to decrease attenuation and to increase damping factor and efficiency.

1- BA's input impedance curve varies, mainly from upper mids to highs, while dynamic drivers show a flatter curve. Source and cable impedance curve use to be very flat. Due to the BA's impedance curve, the higher total output impedance, the higher tonal alteration. It usually makes the highs harsher, louder, but it depends of the IEM impedance curve (BA's impedance + crossovers), so there are cases where the effect is just the opposite. In general, there is coloration, unpredictable tonal alteration. Total output impedance below 1Ω, and even lower, if possible, is desirable.

2- Also, and this applies to every phones, DD and BA, and speakers, total output impedance higher than 1/8 of the phones resistance (at 1kHz), provokes tonal alteration and higher distortion, specially in lows. This is critical when using very low impedance phones (below 8Ω, for example); in this case (very low impedance phones), you can also reach actual limits of current of your source, provoking high distortion and/or clipping; the source wouldn't like this neither..

3- Also, you get better efficiency with low total output impedance. Louder volume at same voltage. This is good for energy saving, and for longevity of your source. Low output impedance increases electric damping factor, so it helps to drive hard phones.

However, we have to make some considerations about cables.

1- If your source output resistance is 15 times (for instance) higher than the resistance of the cables you are considering, the resistance of the cables becomes insignificant; the culprit of the problem, if any, will reside in your source.

2- The magnitude of the tonal alterations depends of the IEMs mainly. In most cases, the resistance differences between cables won't provoke highly noticeable tonal alteration at human registers; they'll be below 1dB, or even below 0.5dB at audible frequencies, except if we are talking about cables with resistance close or even higher than 1Ω.
It's all about proportions and perfectionism. If we keep our cable resistance lower than 300mΩ (equivalent to 28AWG copper) or 200mΩ (26AWG), most of us shouldn't notice the alterations.


Cables don't sound, they can only degrade sound more or less.
Material and quality of the conductor, plugs, and sleeves, contribute to minimize degradation.
An ideal cable wouldn't degrade sound, so you could reach the limits of your source and phones.

Usual measurements don't reveal significant differences in tonality nor distortion. But when rolling cables while listening music, many of us find differences about background noise and stage, which can affect to thickness, definition, separation, and imaging perception. They are not big differences, but noticeable. All these parameters are not easily measurable, and our brain is very special and tricky when perceiving sound.

When you plan to buy a cable, you should consider all this. If your sources and/or phones have low quality, it's absurd to get a fancy expensive cable: the bottleneck won't be in the cable.
Once you get decent quality gear, you have to remember than in audio every next upgrade is more expensive to get smaller improvement. The limit is your perfectionism grade, and your wallet.
A good idea is to keep proportion, or to pass when you know that the improvement is not worth it compared to the cost.


Link: Other considerations about capacitance, geometry, and isolation of cables


Based on my experience with Chinese cables, although there are good exceptions:

*Copper*
When they say high purity copper, it means simple OFC (oxygen free copper).
There is better quality copper: single crystal, OCC -ohno continuous casting-, and variants (UP-OCC, PC-OCC, ...), freeze treatments, and others. In theory, few boundaries in copper help to better conductivity, more linear resistance.
same with purity grade of copper (4N=99.99%, 5N=99.999%, 6N=99.9999%, 7N=99.99999%). Fewer impurities help to better conductivity, more linear resistance.
Difference of price is usually huge, compared to audible improvement. Chinese manufacturers and sellers lie frequently about the quality of the copper (specially about purity grade) and it's difficult to prove it.
So trying them is the only way to know if it's worth it for you.

*Silver*
When they say silver plated copper, it is usually tin or alloy plated. When they say pure silver wire, it is pure silver plated copper wire frequently.
True silver plating raises the price considerably; and true pure silver wire is around double (or even much more) the price of true silver plated copper.
Silver is only a bit more conductive than copper. Its structure and purity could contribute to better conductivity, more linear resistance, as well.
Again, we are in the same place than before: audible improvement? At what cost?

There is some consensus about copper and silver (true silver, not tin or other alloys): copper preserves lows better, silver preserves highs better. Not demonstrated once again, but some people affirm to be able to distinguish between them.


*Measurement of DC resistance of cables*

1- Calibrate your multimeter.
a) Set your DMM to measure resistance, mΩ range, if available.
b) Touch the leads one against the other. Read resistance of them and note it. Do it for any leads (point, alligators, etc.) you plan to use. You only have to do this once. Choose the less resistance leads of each type available.
c) If your DMM is able to use a reference for relative measuring (REL button or similar), you can set your lead resistance as reference.

2- Measure resistance.
a) Set your DMM to measure resistance, mΩ range, if available.
b) Measure resistance (details, below).
c) If you used relative measuring, the DMM has already substracted leads resistance; if don't, you'll have to subtract it to your measurement.

To measure 2pins TRS cables.
Tip is left signal, Ring is right signal, Sleeve is common ground. For example, to measure left path, touch or clip (I use low resistance alligator or flat clips for this, easier and more stable) the tip of the jack with one lead, and signal pin of left side with the other.

To measure MMCX TRS cables.
You can measure L/R ground easily. one lead touches sleeve part of the jack, and the other, touches the external circle of the MMCX plug.
To measure L/R signal, you have to touch the inner small pin of the MMCX plug. Depending of the leads type used, this can be complicated. point leads make it easier in this case. I use clips, so i add an MMCX to 2pins adapter of known resistance (tiny) to measure signal more comfortably.

To measure when TRRS balanced jack in the cable (2.5mm, 4.4mm; remember this is different to TRRS single end+mic jacks).
You have to know which is the balance norm used for the cable. the most used is:
tip: R-, ring1: R+, ring2: L+, sleeve: L-. (negative are cold -inverted- signals, positive are hot signals; no ground needed nor available, except a screen braid connecting the mass of the plugs in cables with RF/EMI protection).

Resolution.
10mΩ (two decimal digits) is desired (1mΩ would be superb, but not usual).
Usual cheap DMMs use 100mΩ (one decimal digit) resolution. Too much error in both leads and cable measurements, but can be used to get a gross idea.

For resistance measurements (mΩ), I use *Vapcell YR1030* (https://lygte-info.dk/review/InternalResistanceMeterYR1030 UK.html , around $38), because of its resolution (~1mΩ) and because it uses 4 terminal leads (alligator clamps or probes, like showed at https://lygte-info.dk/review/InternalResistanceMeterYR1035 UK.html ); this is very comfortable: you don't have to subtract leads resistance, and measurements are more stable.
I use UNI-T UT61E for voltage (mV) and capacitance (pF) measuring.

Anyway, you can use a cheaper DMM as well. Here is an example using a $22 DMM (ZOYI ZT109, 2 decimal points at Ω, 10mΩ resolution), with very low resistance clamp leads (they didn't come with the DMM). You have to wait until reading is stable.

1. Calibration: ~10mΩ (0.01Ω) leads resistance



2. Measurement of $20 cable, 2.5mm balanced, left+ signal:
 

0.11Ω - 0.01Ω (leads resistance) = 0.10Ω (100mΩ).
Absolute error of this measurement: ~15mΩ



*Calculation of resistance of a cable, given conductor material, structure, and length*

You can read this tutorial.There are also tools in internet which make the calculations for you.

1. Calculate section of each strand (surface of a circle). StrandSection = pi * Radius * Radius. If your strand diameter is 0.04. radius is half the diameter. So StrandSection = pi * 0.02 * 0.02 = 0.0012566 mm2

2. Calculate section of the the core. CoreSection = NumberOfStrands * StrandSection. so CoreSection = 0.0012566 * 80 = 0.1 mm2 (this is equivalent to a wire of 0.36mm diameter = 27AWG)

3. Calculate section of each signal. SignalSection = NumberOfCoresPerSignal * CoreSection. If your wire is 4 cores, each signal will use 1 core (2 for ground); if your wire is 8 cores, 2 cores are used per signal. Let's imagine this is your case. SignalSection = 2 * 0.1 = 0.2 mm2 (which is equivalent to 0.51mm diameter = 24AWG).

4. Calculate resistance per signal for you length.
Resistance= (MaterialResistivity / SignalSection) * Length
Here are typical resistance of some materials at 20ºC, per area of square millimeter (and conductivity is the inverse of resistivity, 1/resistivity).
..Silver 0.0159
..Copper 0.0168
..Annealed copper 0.0172
..Gold 0.0244
..Aluminum 0.0265
If your wire is copper, and your length is 2m,
Resistance = (0.0168 / 0.2) * 2 = 0.168Ω = 168mΩ.

Add plugs and solders resistance (let's say around 15-30mΩ), and your 8 cores cable of 2m will have a total resistance of around 190mΩ per signal.
Note that the difference when using pure silver is not much (around 180mΩ).


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## hakuzen (Jan 23, 2021)

*CABLES BELOW 400mΩ. MEASUREMENTS.*

you can find more discussions about these cables at:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/

measurements:
resistance, in mΩ: left, right, groundL, groundR, or L+, R+, L-, R- (balanced)
[weight], in g
parallel capacitance, in pF: left/groundL, right/groundR, or L+/L-, R+,R- (balanced)
[total length] (plugs excluded), in cm (take this in account, because resistance and capacitance depends of it)
-ordered by resistance/m (approx.)-

measured with high precision multimeter.
blue color: @BadReligionPunk/@fokta measurements

notations:
id number is assigned arbitrarily. it's intended to refer to a cable shortly, quickly, and uniquely.
build method of wire material:
...of=oxygen free; sc=single crystal; occ/upocc=oh-no continuous casting and variants;
...lz=litz; frz=frozen/cryo
wire material:
...c=copper; cu=copper; tpc=tin or alloy plated copper; spc=silver plated copper;
...ag=silver; au=gold
<num>c=number of cores
color:
...silver= white/silver; copper= orange/pink; brown= brown/dark copper; gold= yellow
chinese jack style (metallic):
...eid= eidolic; oyde= oyaide; furt=furutech; alo=alo audio; bsp=bispa; scrf=switchcraft
M: mmcx/2pins and 3.5/2.5/4.4mm balanced terminations available
Mx: mmcx and 3.5/2.5/4.4mm balanced terminations available
V: different terminations for headphones, and not standard terminations for earphones


cleanest sound with cables (atm and imo, after listening round up of a few cables):
175, 183, 174/173, 210, 177/169, 171/170, 172/165, 194, 198, 125, 128, 133, 130-132, 140, 151, 160.
my actual favorites, in terms of sound, are cables *234* & *175* (silver + copper), *174*/*173* (silver), *183* (silver), *230* & *171*/*170* (copper), *210* (silver & copper), *177*/*169* (spc & copper), *232* (spc), *172*/*165* (copper), *194* (silver & copper), followed by *198* (copper), *125* (copper) and *128* (spc).

125. 7n occ 4c (copper,furt,MV)_______________________57/57/*bad*/55..59/59/*bad/*57..53/53/54/54..64/62/62/71..[36]..113/124/137..101/121/144..[115/121/117]
128. 7n spc 4c (silver,eid,M)__________________________63..64..58..71..[38]..102..89..[115]
150. isn audio C16 scc 16c (copper,M)__________________78..83..73..86..[52.9]..297..294..[124]
151. isn audio H16 spc 16c (white,M)___________________82..81..77..88..[50.2]..242..263..[124]
065. jcally 5n ofc/tpc 4c (copper,cheap furt,MV)___________88/86..89/89..90/82..92/93..[36]..133..146..[117]
065. jcally 5n tpc 4c (dark blue,cheap furt,MV)____________84..*184*..80..107..[34.4]
160. acrolink 6n occ 8c (light grey,MV)__________________95..95..91..102..[37]..210..193..[120]
161. acrolink 6n occ spc 8c (purple,MV)_________________90..99..83..95..[38]..214..187..[120]
052. tpc 8c (gold,eid,M)______________________________96..99..91..104..[27.5]
130. hck djy1 7n occ spc 8c (brown+gold,eid,M)__________100..101..98..111..[33.4]..159..164..[118]
163. acrolink spc 6n occ 16c (silver,MV)________________121..109..106..105..[29.8]..154..155..[118] donated by @candlejack
131. 7n occ spc 8c (brown,oyde,M)____________________107..114..106..125..[31.4] *defective* (see comments section)
053. hck ct1 ofc 8c (brown,bsp,M)_____________________110..avg (115 mmcx)..[27]..many measured
145. zsfs tpc 8c (brown,slim plugs,ath-im02,V)___________117..118..112..132
132. luna 7n occ spc 8c (brown+gold,furt,M)_____________121..121..116..151..[31.5]
183. eac gs AuPlatAg+AgAu 8c (gold+silver,eagle,MV)____122..122..119..131..[33.3]..108..102..[112]
051. tpc 8c (grey,eid,M)_____________________________128..128..126..138..[27.4]
052. tpc 8c (silver,eid)______________________________130..avg..many measured
133. gucraftsman 6n occ spc? 8c (grey,alo,MV)__________135..133..124..128..[27.5]..151..148..[126]
133. gucraftsman 6n occ 8c (brown,alo,MV)_____________136/142..143/143..127/133..130/135..[26.8]..145..173..[126] (mmcx/2.5mmTRS)
115. spc+shield 4c[8c] (grey/white silver,oyde,MV)________137/128..136/126..131/131..139/139..[26.9]..110..92..[118]
175. eac ms upocc AgAu+cu lz frz 8c (silv+blue,eagle,MV)_131/130/138..131/131/137..132/147/153..131/130/143..[32/32/28]..118-120..[113] 2*4.4/2.5mm
175. eac ms upocc AgAu+cu lz frz 8c (silv+cop,eagle,MV)__139/138..142/137..136/134..144/134..[28/32.4]..118/128-119/136..[113] 2.5/4.4mm
175. eac ms upocc AgAu+cu lz frz 8c (silv+cop,eagle,MV)__195/188/166..163/176/167..161/161/166..173/186/163..[35.7/33.7/35]..137/144/160..138/137/145..[137/140/140]
171. eac cs 7n upocc cu lz frz 8c (copper,eagle,MV)_______133..143..132..142..[30.5]..121..111..[117]
171. eac cs 7n upocc cu lz frz 8c (blue,eagle,MV)_________156/133..162/154..145/132..184/152..[31.8/30.5]..134/121..131/111..[136/117] mmcxLongCable/2pin
174. eac gs upocc Ag99Au1 8c (silver,eagle,MV)__________140/151..143/151..142/146..149/158..[34]..114/121..104/113..[113/111] 2p/mmcx
053. hck tdy1 tpc 8c (silver,bsp,M)_____________________134/155..163/150..132/138..148/152
066. jcally 5n tpc 8c (black,cheap furt,MV)_______________*249*/155/155..130/145/146..126/138/142..126/140/142..[29.2]
168. tw 6n ofc 4c (copper,eid,Mx)______________________164..165..160..179..[24.7]..86..78..[116]
230. ea vogue maestro upocc cu lz 4c (copper,ea,M)_______170..182..178..172..[14.9]..80..79..[118]
232. ea vogue virtuoso upocc spc lz 4c (silver,ea,M)________190..169..169..178..[15.1]..82..81..[118]
234. ea vogue grandioso upocc cu+ag lz 4c (silv+cop,ea,M)__179..202..203..169..[15.4]..81..80..[119]
194. eac ms 5n ag & 7n occ cu frz 2x2c (silver,eagle,MV)___218..220..99..109..[25.1]..170..166..[120]
187. eac gs upocc AuPaPlatCu 8c eag (gold,eagle,MV)____135..157..243..232
177. eac cs 7n upocc spc&cu lz frz 8c (silv&cop,eagle,MV)__209..204..208..210..[29.8]..137..129..[142]
120. bgvp 6n occ+spc? 8c (grey) =DM6 stock____________169..173..*277*..190
052. tpc+ofc? 8c (silver+copper,eid,M)__________________135/131..131/132..190/184..208/240
110. 7n spc 16c (silver,viablue)________________________165..145..155..155
198. eac xs 7n scc frz lz 4c (copper,eagle,MV)____________167..164..164..174..[23.8]..76..71..[113]
196. eac rx 6n occ+spc lz 4c (silver+copper,eagle,MV)_____167..168..296..288..[22.1]..76..71..[116]
052. tpc 8c (copper,eid,M)____________________________180..avg..[24.7]..many measured
052. tpc 8c (brown,eid,M)____________________________188..188..185..185
090. hck 4n ofc 4c (copper,furt,M)______________________177.. 202..193..190..[24.9]..92..89..[127]
100. impactAudio infinite 5n ofc 4c (custom,MV)___________190..190..182..180
165. tw 7n upocc cu frz 4c (copper+brown,eid,Mx)_________191..191..187..200..[23.5]..74..68..[112]
064. hck ct4 ofc 16c (brown,M)________________________193..208..168..202..[22.6]..[119]
060. hck ct3 ofc 8c (brown,furt,M)______________________206/210..206/204..200/205..*486*/195..[19]
055. tpc 16c (silver,oyde,M)___________________________221/232..218/236..221/221..232/235
063. hck tdy3 tpc 16c (black,furt,M)_____________________223..226..225..230..[21.9]
062. hck ct2 ofc 16c (brown,furt,M)_____________________*402*/235..259/243..239/250..244/246..[22.5]
070. tpc 16c (pink,eid,M)_____________________________240..240..237..252..[22.2]
054. lz 6n frozen spc 8c (brown,M)_____________________240..240..240..300..[22.9]..144..137..[123]
155. "silver" spc 8c (silver,eid,MV)______________________256/254..258/249..245/245..260/246..[23.4]
175. eac ms upocc AgAu+cu lz frz 4c (silv+blue,eagle,MV)___242..241..284..283
170. eac cs 7n upocc cu lz frz 4c (copper,eagle,MV)________252..254..268..290..[21.5]..73..71..[120]
173. eac gs upocc Ag99Au1 4c (silver,eagle,MV)__________286..286..282..292..[115]
050. tpc 8c (black,oyde,M)____________________________260..270..260..260
192. eac rs 6n upocc cu lz 4c (copper,eagle,MV)__________360..[23.7/24.3]..98..93..[149]..avg..many measured..2pins/mmcx
059. kz tpc 8c (silver+gold,oyde,M)_____________________281..278..250..255..[17.9]
081. audbos/tenhz p4 pro stock spc/tpc? 4c (silver)________282/282..283/279..275/275..275/275
105. 7n silver 4c (silver,mps)__________________________300..290..280..280
140. hck djt1 6n gc-occ 8c (brown,alo,M)________________293/303..298/306..292/292..302/304..[17]..136..133..[127/131]
057. hck spc 8c (silver,furt,M)__________________________310..303..302..319
169. tw 7n upocc spc&cu lz frz 4c (silv&cop,eid,mmcxM)____316..319..311..327..[19.7]..79..73..[115]
080. tin audio t2 stock spc/tpc? 4c (silver,furt)_____________331..325..318..319
082. toneking t4 stock spc/tpc 8c (blue+black)_____________348..341..358..357
061. hck tdy4 spc 8c (black,furt,M)______________________350..avg..[17.4]..many measured
037. kz mmcx tpc 4c (silver,oyde)_______________________384..384..375..376
210. hck 6n upocc ag&cu lz 4c (light copper,M)____________382..409..386..403..[21.4]..78..73..[129]
058. kz tpc+ofc 8c A(0.75) (silver+copper,oyde,M)__________216..213..479..503
058. kz spc+ofc 8c B(0.78) (silver+copper,oyde,M)_________541..552..222..220
056. trn spc 6n occ 8c (silver+black,cheapBal furt,M)________*423*/*414*/*249*/*260*..*219*/*216*/*245*/*240*..*289*/*244*/*480*/*475*..150/*223*/145/135
056. trn spc 6n occ 8c (yellow+silver,cheapBal furt,M)_______*429*..*289*..*265*..137
056. trn spc 6n occ 8c (yellow+silver,cheap furt,M)_________*454*/*448*..*219*/*218*..135/*245*..*267*/128
050. tpc 8c (gold,oyde,M)_____________________________346..*636*..374..443


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## hakuzen (Jan 23, 2021)

*CABLES BELOW 400mΩ. info, pics, comments, links. PART 1 of 5



175*. eac ms upocc AgAu+cu lz frz 8c (silver+copper/blue,eagle,MV):
8 cores:
139/138..142/137..136/134..144/134 mΩ..[28/32.4g]..118/128-119/136 pF..[113cm] (2.5/4.4mm, copper color)
131/130/138..131/131/137..132/147/153..131/130/143 mΩ..[32/32/28g]..118-120 pF..[113cm] (2*4.4/2.5mm, blue color)
195/188/166..163/176/167..161/161/166..173/186/163 mΩ..[35.7/33.7/35g]..137/144/160..138/137/145 pF..[137/140/140cm] (2.5mm, extra length, copper color)
4 cores:
242..241..284..283 mΩ (4.4mm, blue color)

mix of cables 170/171 (copper) and 173/174 (silver), from CEMA electro acousti, MS series. please read the comments of these cables to get an idea of characteristics of this cable.
now, 4 cores version is in stock, due to great success of 8 cores version.
in 8 cores version, one core of each material is used in every contact/signal. this way, the attributes are a direct average of cables 171 and 174, and i think it's the best approach for mixing different wires in single-ended cables. in 4 cores version, one wire type is used for positive signals, and the other for negative; the result should be the same than in 8 cores, except of the resistance.
it's the most versatile cable: it can pair well either with dark or bright combos.
not needed to say this is same top quality cable as 174 and 171. mix of one of the purest copper litz and silver wires (up-occ) you can find.
curious thing is how the craftman braided the cores; the result is like a zebra snake, very original indeed. also available with standard braid and blue sleeved copper.
my *favorite hybrid* cable together with effect audio vogue grandioso (234, see below); pure silver + copper, they are my absolute favorites.
pics: it's a true beauty..






























links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000158772005.html
custom cable at electro acousti: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206



*173*, *174*. eac gs upocc Ag99Au1 8c (silver,eagle,MV).
taiwan oem up-occ pure silver99% + Au1% alloy. 28awg/core, PE sheath, from CEMA electro acousti. GS series.
eagle true rhodium plated plug (over gold plating); superb quality plug, there is a big difference between these components (jack, divider, slider), and those used in any other chi-cable from my list; the plug costs over $14, while others cost $2-3. good strain reliefs.
mmcx, 2pins, QDC, and other terminations, together with 2.5, 3.5, 4.4mm plugs, available. you can also ask for other terminations, like 2.5mm or 3.5mm plugs for headphones, and not ear molded guides (search for desired plugs in their stock).
flexible wire, but not the most flexible; it's supple, considering its thickness.
some microphonics, then, although i don't notice them when music is playing.
like the other up-occ wires, sound is very clean, reference. darker background, deeper soundstage, which helps to better separation and imaging perception. this also leads to better definition and detail.
compared with the other up-occ wires, i do notice the effect of pure silver.
mids (specially upper mids) and highs become more layered than in any other wire. soundstage is bigger, deeper, sounds come from many different places, even at dense passages. you can easier locate and separate them from others. the result is a clearer perception of mids and highs. you can better notice their ringing decay. this is the best wire i've tried for mids and highs.
lows are tight, punchy (great hit hats), and detailed. you can follow the bass line easier, fine texture. but you notice less bass rumble, shorter note size, than with up-occ copper.
so this wire is excellent for taming bass in dark combos, or for mid-treble-heads (like me).
if you miss bolder bass and rumble, you better try up-occ copper.
this is my *favorite pure silver* cable atm.

wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046978735.html







links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33049568537.html

*174*. 8 cores version: 140/151..143/151..142/146..149/158 mΩ..[34g]..114/121..104/113 pF..[113/111cm]
outer diameter: 5.3mm. length from splitter: 36/38cm.
structure: 0.10mm*10(ID:0.36mm/OD:1.4mm/28.15awg)*8c [2c/signal:25.16AWG]








*173*. 4 cores version:
structure: 0.10mm*10(ID:0.36mm/OD:1.4mm/28.15awg)*4c







*170*,* 171*. eac 7n upocc cu lz frz (copper/blue,eagle,M).
taiwan oem frozen 7n up-occ copper litz (independent shield/enamel of every thread in each core), 28awg/core, PE sheath; "frozen and strengthened by American cryo parts". from CEMA electro acousti. CS series.
eagle true rhodium plated plug (over gold plating), sandal wood divider and wood/metal chin slider; superb quality plugs, there is a big difference between these components (plug, divider, slider), and those used in any other chi-cable from my list; the plug costs over $14, while others cost $2-3.
strain relief is a bit stiff (soft heat-shrink); this could be improved. edit: this has been improved in cable 171; now it's very good.
mmcx, 2pins, QDC, and other terminations, together with 2.5, 3.5, 4.4mm plugs, available.you can also ask for other terminations, like 2.5mm or 3.5mm plugs for headphones, and not ear molded guides (search for desired plugs in their stock).
flexible wire, but not the most flexible; i expected the 8 cores would be stiffer; it's quite supple for its thickness.
some microphonics, then, although i don't notice them when music is playing.
sound is very clean, reference. darker background, deeper soundstage; definition is so great, that i get the best separation and imaging perception.
litz shielding can give even darker background than wire used in cable 172/165 (no litz); this is confirmed after first listening; difference is subtle (as usual with cables), but noticeable and welcome.
bass keeps its rumble, while detailed. mids and highs perception is clearer than with other copper cables.
this is my *favorite copper* cable, together with effect audio vogue maestro (230, see below), at this moment.

wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008255130.html (transparent sleeve) and/or
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007631873.html (blue accent sleeve, kind of blue/purple, it changes its color depending of the light)















*171*. 8 cores version
copper color:......133..143..132..142 mΩ..[30.5g]..121..111 pF..[117cm]
blue color 2pin:...133..154..132..152 mΩ..[30.5g]..121..111 pF..[117cm]
blue color mmcx:.156..162..145..184 mΩ..[31.8g]..134..131 pF..[136cm] (extra length)

outer diameter: 5mm. length from splitter: 37cm.
structure: 0.08mm*19(OD:1.08mm/27.3awg)*4c [2c/signal: 24.3AWG]
copper color:




blue/purple color (plus 3.5mm TRS to 2.5mm TRRS adapter, using same wire):





*170*. 4 cores version: 252..254..268..290 mΩ..[21.46g]..73..71 pF..[120cm]
outer diameter: 4.3mm. length from splitter: 41cm.
structure: 0.08mm*19(OD:1.08mm/27.3AWG)*4c





links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007909452.html



*230*, *232*, *234*. effect audio vogue series.
these are the budget line from a very reputed brand from Singapore.
links: https://www.effectaudio.com/vogue-series.html






in these models, they also use up-occ litz wires, my fav, but with a more refined geometry and other innovations: triple size of strands into each core, like famous cardas clear light but adding kevlar fibers in the center to improve durability; golden ratio dispersion, which should help to avoid some undesired harmonics; ultraflexi sleeve; very light and ergonomic (flatten surfaces) plugs (jack, termination plugs, and splitter).





i'm going to compare these cables with the equivalent cema electro acousti cables, to check if these innovations make a noticeable improvement.

it is difficult to notice the subtle sound differences between such high quality cables, so it could be bias, but i think there are higher dynamics and very slightly deeper soundstage, blacker background, which helps with imaging, separation, and microdetails. tried with hifiman ananda and moondrop blessing. the new geometry is a success in my opinion.
about resistance and capacitance, these cables (4 cores) are true 26awg per signal, so their conductivity are closer to 8 cores versions of cema cables than to 4 cores versions (28awg), while their parallel capacitance is closer to 4 cores versions, which is great.
i think that cema eagle plugs are higher quality than the minimal versions sported in this vogue series, but the counterpart is that vogue cables result extremely light (check the weight) and comfortable (thanks to the flat surfaces, frequent un/plugging is easier for me; the plastic chin slider does its job).
the cables are very flexible, and didn't notice microphonics.
considering all this, and comparing the prices (remember effect audio makes discounts from time to time), these cables are now my favorites, in par, if not better, than my favorite cema cables.


*234*. ea vogue grandioso upocc cu+ag lz 4c (silv+cop,ea,M)
2 cores of up-occ copper litz + 2 cores of up-occ silver litz, triple-size and golden ratio dispersion, 26AWG per core/signal, woven kevlan fibers inside, ultraflexi (kind of PE?) sheath available colors: transparent sleeve (copper and silver colors), black sleeve for copper cores (black and silver colors).
2.5mm jack, 2pins:.179..202..203..169 mΩ..[15.4g]..81..80 pF..[119cm]
outer diameter: 4.2mm. length from splitter: 39cm.
resistance measurements suggest silver cores are used in left- and right+. not an issue in balanced cables.

perception of tonality is extended, balanced and natural, like with 175. copper helps with bass (impactful, good extension and bass rumble while very well textured), and silver helps with treble (good extension and body, airy and sparkling but keeping naturalness). they are the most neutral and balanced cables i've tried (they don't alter the tonal signature), without loosing detail (all the frequencies along the instruments ringing are perceived even, smooth, no holes nor peaks), thanks to the exceptional soundstage and black background.
i think the way both cables achieve highs preservation is different. guess that AuAg (silver) strands in 175 results brighter than silver strands of 234 if same thickness, while 234 gets same brightness due to the thinner inner strands while controlling undesired harmonics between strands thanks to golden ratio dispersion. but these are pure guessings...
voices, both male (low mids) and female (upper mids), keep a good body; they are not located in front, there is some distance thanks to the deep soundstage, but all the details are preserved and noticed.
very difficult to find differences with 175, but maybe 234 has got a bit higher dynamics, blacker background.

this is my actual *favorite hybrid* cable and favorite absolute cable from all i've tried, together with 175 (cema electro acousti).












wire comparison with 175 (right). 234 has got thinner sleeve, and thicker wire (due to center kevlar fibers, plus overall thicker wire).
about copper wire, outer strands look similar diameter than strands of 175, inner strands will be thinner. silver strands of 175 are thicker than outer strands of 234, and much thicker than inner strands.






*230*. ea vogue maestro upocc cu lz 4c (copper,ea,M)
4 cores of up-occ copper litz, triple-size and golden ratio dispersion, 26AWG per core/signal, woven kevlan fibers inside, ultraflexi (kind of PE?) sheath available colors: transparent and black.
2.5mm jack, 2pins:.170..182..178..172 mΩ..[14.9g]..80..79 pF..[118cm]
outer diameter: 4.2mm. length from splitter: 38cm.

perception of tonality is balanced and natural, like 171. up-occ wires are more balanced than many other copper cables, because they don't eat the highs. impactful bass, well extended, bass rumble, while well textured and controlled (but not as much as 234). maybe a bit darker, but not much, than 234.
very difficult to find differences with 171. maybe slightly deeper stage and blacker background, but it could be bias..

this is my actual *favorite copper* cable together with 171 (cema electro acousti).













wire comparison with 171 (right in first pic, left in second pic). 230 has got thinner sleeve, and thicker wire (due to center kevlar fibers, plus overall thicker wire). you can notice some of the thinner inner strands in the second pic.










*232*. ea vogue virtuoso upocc spc lz 4c (silver,ea,M)
4 cores of up-occ silver plated copper litz, triple-size and golden ratio dispersion, 26AWG per core/signal, woven kevlan fibers inside, ultraflexi (kind of PE?) sheath available colors: transparent and black.
2.5mm jack, 2pins:.190..169..169..178 mΩ..[15.1g]..82..81 pF..[118cm]
outer diameter: 4.2mm. length from splitter: 38cm.

perception of tonality is clearly brighter than 230 and 234, due to tighter bass (less bass rumble and extension, but very well textured) and to airier and sparkler upper mids and treble. it's curious that silver plated up-occ copper is way brighter than up-occ pure silver. the result is not as natural as 234 nor 230. maybe because i tested it using an slightly bright DAC+amplifier (xduoo x20) and slightly bright headphones (hifiman ananda), i much prefer 234 and even 230. but this cable can be used with dark combos which like some more treble energy.
soundstage and background noise are in par with other quality up-occ litz wires. upper mids, female voices, look forwarder than in 234 & 230.
i don't own many silver plated cables (not my cup of tea), and didn't compare this cable with 128 (one of the best spc cables i've tested); will do it when i get some more time, but due to quality up-occ wire (stage and background) and lightness, this is my *favorite silver plated copper* cable at this moment. very good for dark combos.


----------



## hakuzen (Aug 26, 2020)

*CABLES BELOW 400mΩ. info, pics, comments, links. PART 2 of 6



182*, *183*. eac gs AuPlatAg+AgAu 4c/8c (gold+silver,eagle,MV)
taiwan neotech oem 24k gold plated up-occ silver + up-occ pure silver99% + Au1% alloy. 28awg/core, PE sheath, from electro acousti. GS series.
structure:
AuAg: 0.10mm*10(ID:0.36mm/OD:1.4mm/28.15awg). gold plated Ag: 0.15mm?*7 (~26awg).
the result is 27AWG (24AWG in 8 cores version).
eagle true rhodium plated plug (over gold plating); superb quality plug, there is a big difference between these components (jack, divider, slider), and those used in any other chi-cable from my list; the plug costs over $14, while others cost $2-3. good strain reliefs.
mmcx, 2pins, QDC, and other terminations, together with 2.5, 3.5, 4.4mm plugs, available. you can also ask for other terminations, like 2.5mm or 3.5mm plugs for headphones, and not ear molded guides (search for desired plugs in their stock).
flexible wire, but not the most flexible; it's supple, considering its thickness.
some microphonics, then, although i don't notice them when music is playing.
like the other up-occ wires, sound is very clean, reference. darker background, deeper soundstage, which helps to better separation and imaging perception. this also leads to better definition and detail.
compared to cables 173/174 (only AgAu wire), the gold plated silver wire helps to get less bright result. quality of upper mids and highs is the same, but you get bolder bass and low mids, and some more sub-bass rumble.
compared to 175, i think i prefer up-occ copper bass (cleaner) than this gold plated silver bass (fuller). 183 overall tonality is brighter than 175.

wires used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046978735.html (same than cables 173/174), and
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007639757.html












*183*. 8 cores version: 122..122..119..131 mΩ..[33.3g]..108..102 pF..[112cm]
outer diameter: 5.5mm. length from splitter: 37cm.








*182*. 4 cores version





links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33044349754.html



*187*. eac gs AuPa Plated Cu 8c (gold,eagle,MV): 135..157..243..232 mΩ
eac copper plated with gold+palladium(0.2%) alloy, PE sheath.
measurements and photos by @fokta (thanks!)
don't know the structure; manufacturer/seller webpage says 49 strands into each core (guess 7 packs of 7 strands each), so structure could be (0.05mm?*7*7,27.3awg)*8c [2c/signal: 25.3AWG]; although the high difference between measurements puzzled me and could indicate two kinds of cores used.
to get @fokta impressions in this custom cable from CEMA electro acousti, refer to his posts in this thread.













*169*, *177*.
taiwan neotech oem frozen 7n up-occ silver plated copper and copper, mixed strands in each core, litz (independently shielded/enameled). PE sheath.
very good quality conductor material.
not very flexible wire, but ok; some microphonics, then, but i can't hear them when playing music.
sound is very clean, reference. dark background, bigger soundstage; definition is so great, that i feel better separation and imaging than the rest.
litz shielding can give even darker background than wire used in cable 165 (no litz, but thicker); this is confirmed after first listening; difference is subtle (as usual with cables), but noticeable and welcome.
i usually prefer copper to silver plated copper (except for some dark phones). but the difference when quality of wire is so high, gets minimized. in this case, i prefer this mix. mids and highs look a bit closer, thanks to silver plated copper, while lows keep their texture intact, thanks to copper.
this is my *favorite spc&copper* cable, atm. but i prefer hybrid cable 175 (more expensive); even bigger stage, layering, and even clearer mids and highs.
wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007736919.html











*177*. eac cs 7n upocc spc&cu lz frz 8c (silv+cop,eagle,MV): 209..204..208..210 mΩ..[29.8]..137..129 pF..[142cm]
structure: 0.08mm?*7(spc)+0.10mm?*5(copper)(OD:1.08mm/28.4awg)*8c [2c/signal: 25.4AWG]
outer diameter: 5mm. length from splitter: 39cm.
custom cable of 1.5m (from 12m of wire), 8 cores (you can ask for 4 cores version as well), from electro acousti. CS series.
eagle true rhodium plated plug (over gold plating) with sandal wood terminated shell, sandal wood divider and metal chin slider; superb quality plugs, there is a big difference between these components (plug, divider, slider), and those used in any other chi-cable from my list.







links:
custom cable at electro acousti: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206
now in stock: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000384951262.html

*169*. tw 7n upocc spc&cu lz frz 4c (silv+cop,eid,Mx): 316..319..311..327 mΩ..[19.7g]..79..73 pF..[115cm]
structure: 0.08mm?*7(spc)+0.10mm?*5(copper)(OD:1.08mm/28.4AWG)*4c
outer diameter: 4.3mm. length from splitter: 46cm.
only mmcx (with 2.5, 3.5, and 4.4mm jacks) available. these mmcx plugs from Taiwan are wider than average, their quality is superior, preciser mechanized: safe and easier pop in and out. rotate freely.








*210*. hck 6n upocc ag&cu lz 4c (light copper,M): 382..409..386..403 mΩ..[21.4g]..78..73 pF..[129cm]
outer diameter: 5.5mm. length from splitter: 40cm.
nicehck oalloy 6n up-occ silver & copper alloy litz. PE sheath.
structure: 0.06mm*22*2(OD:1.5mm,26AWG)*4c. advertised as 25awg conductor.
geometry is two groups of 22 twisted strands, both twisted.
it comes into a nicehck flat zip case (one of my fav cases).
the plugs are nice looking. i like the bevel in the 2.5mm plug.
the wire is soft and medium-low flexibility.
as you can see, resistance measurements don't match 25 nor 26awg. it's around 29 or 30awg. the discrepancy could be originated by an improper litz remove before soldering. found a similar issue in cable 192.
despite of the resistance, you can notice the sound stage and black background of up-occ wires here.
the sound you get with this cable is really good. i'm amazed by the bass: it's very detailed (great texture) but it has big presence and sub-bass rumble. i think it's my favorite bass from all up-occ wires i've tried.
sound is balanced, not dark, not bright. about treble, you don't get same detail and clarity than with AgAu wire (cables 173/174, 175, 182/183), but it's there.












wire:




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000167037021.html


----------



## hakuzen (Aug 26, 2020)

*CABLES BELOW 400mΩ. info, pics, comments, links. PART 3 of 6


165*, *172*,* 179*.
taiwan neotech oem 7n frozen up-occ (no litz), PE sheath.
structure: 0.10mm*16(OD:1.2mm/26AWG)*4c. or 8c (23AWG).
not very thick, but acceptable, because of the great quality of conductor material.
not very flexible wire, guess it's due to the sleeve. some microphonics, then, but i can't hear them when playing music.
sound is very clean, reference. dark background, bigger soundstage; definition is so great, that i feel better separation and imaging than the rest. but litz version of this wire is better.
overall great quality affordable when around $70.
wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007390866.html and/or
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007394876.html












*179*. eac cs 7n upocc cu frz 8c (copper/brown,eagle,MV)
8 cores custom version from electro acousti. CS series.




links:
custom cable at electro acousti: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206

*172*. eac cs 7n upocc cu frz 4c (copper/brown,eagle,MV)
from electro acousti. CS series.
various plugs (mini-plugs included), dividers, and 2-pin/mmcx termination available; transparent or brown sleeve (guess you could ask.for mixed colors as well)







links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32999961682.html

*165*. tw 7n upocc cu frz 4c (copper+brown,eid,Mx): 191..191..187..200 mΩ..[23.5g]..74..68 pF..[112cm]
outer diameter: 5mm. length from splitter: 45cm.
only mmcx (with 2.5, 3.5, and 4.4mm jacks) available. these mmcx plugs from Taiwan are wider than average, their quality is superior, preciser mechanized: safe and easier pop in and out. rotate freely.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32997339497.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32997399146.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005627267.html



*125*. 7n occ 4c (copper,furt,MV): 57/57/*bad*/55..59/59/*bad/*57..53/53/54/54..64/62/62/71 mΩ..[36g]..113/124/137..101/121/144 pF..[115/121/117cm]
outer diameter: 5.8mm. length from splitter: 39cm.
7n occ copper or alloy (let's trust it..), 0.1mm*63-65strands*4cores (equivalent to 20AWG/signal). PU sleeve. shiny copper color, great look.
best conductivity. total clean sound, reference (bold bass while keeping treble detail).
thick and heavy (36g vs 26g average weight). due to thickness, less flexible and stiffer than others, braid work is a bit loose, the solders into the jack get stressed, so take care of the jack. many sellers.
received one (from 4) with bad or broken solders into the jack.




wire used: http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5994
or this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32890538731.html










some links of cable:
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=6039
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32900673249.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32915015689.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32890850938.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32905344372.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32923223671.html


*128*. 7n spc 4c (silver,eid,M): 63..64..58..71 mΩ..[38g]..102..89 pF..[115cm]
outer diameter: 6mm. length from splitter: 39cm.
silver plated copper version of cable 125, and eidolic styled jack (way better jack and spliter).
sound is slightly different, but likely clean. no sub-bass rumble loss and rich upper mids details.
as stiff as 125.






*194*. eac ms 5n ag & 7n occ cu frz 2x2c (silver,eagle,MV): 218..220..99..109 mΩ..[25.1g]..170..166 pF..[120cm]
core OD: 1.65mm. outer diameter: 4mm. length from splitter: 40cm.
5n sterling silver ribbon (65%), 7n occ copper, "double-layer freezing treatment", from the US.
electro acousti shop. MS series.
don't know its structure, but it looks like there is an inner conductor, some kind of insulation, and then a layer of braided ribbon (flat wire) of pure silver. so 2 conductors inside each core.
don't know the sleeve material, but guess it's PVC or even teflon, because the wire is stiff and springy, harder than PE sheath.
this topology is different to any other wire i've seen, and the sound you get when using it is also unique. very interesting.

resistance is amazing, very low, for such thickness (specially the ground/negative conductors).
inner conductor is used for one signal, and the braid silver layer for the other.
i was expecting that highs perception would be improved by using flat silver wire. and they are indeed, but the rumble of lows is also remarkable, unexpected from this frozen silver wire (maybe round copper inside?).
edit: yes, description update confirmed it uses copper as well, which explains the bass rumble.
so extension is huge at both sides.
soundstage is wide, and bigger overall than any other cables, but up-occ. same for background noise.
very good sound overall. i have to listen and do more AB to further compare it with up-occ wires.











links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000146981622.html


*198*. eac xs 7n scc frz lz (copper,eagle,MV)
frozen 7n single crystal copper litz. PE sheath. from electro acousti. XS series.
structure: 0.06mm*7*7(.139s/.42mm/25.7AWG) per core; 22.7AWG (~90mΩ!) per signal, if 8 cores.
geometry is shown in the pic below. in this case, litz looks properly removed before soldering.
eagle true rhodium plated plug (over gold plating); superb quality plug, there is a big difference between these components (jack, divider, slider), and those used in any other chi-cable from my list; the plug costs over $14, while others cost $2-3. good strain reliefs.
mmcx, 2pins, QDC, and other terminations, together with 2.5, 3.5, 4.4mm plugs, available. you can also ask for other terminations, like 2.5mm or 3.5mm plugs for headphones, and not ear molded guides (search for desired plugs in their stock).
flexible wire, at least the 4 cores version. more flexible than up-occ cables.
my first try in this cable (not burn-in) shows huge bass. lot of rumble. this makes the cable the darkest from the electro acousti cables i've tried. there is good detail in mids and treble, but due to bass presence, the overall result is warm.
i'm in love with up-occ wires, because of their deep sound stage and black background, and tight and detailed bass (personal preference): this wire doesn't reach the high mark up-occ has set, although it is close.
i'd recommend this cable for bassheads, or for trying to get a darker sound from your excessively bright source+phones combo.
i'll update my impressions when i spend more time with this cable.

wire:








8 cores version:





4 cores version: 167..164..164..174 mΩ..[23.8g]..76..71 pF..[113cm]
outer diameter: 4mm. length from splitter: 40cm.





links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000227749190.html


*133*. GUCraftsman 6N OCC cables.
superb conductivity for such a thin wire. material must be true 6n occ, high quality. soft and flexible, although less than (130) due to resistant and durable PVC sleeve.
structure: 0.08mm*19(27awg)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG].
outer diameter: 4.5mm. length from splitter: 38cm.
many terminations (even custom) for headphones available.
clean sound. reference.
reviewed here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/gucraftsman-headphones-earphones-cables.23451/reviews#review-21214
silver mmcx: pure occ single crystal silver (it could be silver plated 6n occ copper).
GUcraftsman 6n occ spc? 8c (grey,alo,MV): 135..133..124..128 mΩ..[27.5g]..151..148 pF..[126cm]




copper mmcx: 6n occ single crystal copper.
GUcraftsman 6n occ 8c (light brown,alo,mmcx): 136..143..127..130 mΩ..[26.8g]..145..173 pF..[126cm]




copper 2.5mmTRS (for HE400i).
GUcraftsman copper 6n occ 8c (light brown,alo,2.5TRS): 142..143..133..135 mΩ




links:
store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/3879013
links of the cables i've purchased and tested:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887680475.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887728749.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889002978.html
other distributors:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32947794522.html
links of other cables using same wire:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889502747.html (silver cable)


----------



## hakuzen (Aug 26, 2020)

*CABLES BELOW 400mΩ. info, pics, comments, links. PART 4 of 6


150*, *151*. ISN audio hi-fi. 16 cores.
structure: 0.08mm*19(27awg,OD:1mm)*16c [4c/signal:21.3AWG].
outer diameter: 7mm. length from splitter: 47cm.
no ear guides, simple heat shrink plastic as strain reliefs (it could be better, but given the rigidity of the cable, there is low risk of break due to big tangling). metallic matte splitter, polished chin slider (it looks like hard plastic, but could be aluminum).
it's like 2 cables in 1. double width, weight, and conductivity (superb). reasonably flexible for its width, but on the stiff side.

*150*. C16 (single crystal copper): 78..83..73..86 mΩ..[52.9g]..297..294 pF..[124cm]
warm tilt, bold bass. it looses upper mids and treble detail (noticeable with high resolving iem).





*151*. S16 (silver plated OCC copper): 82..81..77..88 mΩ..[50.2g]..242..263 pF..[124cm]
clean sound. thinner bass than C16. good to preserve upper-mids and treble resolution.





links:
https://penonaudio.com/isn-c16.html
https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-s16.html


*160*, *161*. acrolink 6n occ 8c
structure: 0.10mm*19(25awg)*8c [2c/signal:~22.3AWG]. 6N pcocc copper. PVC sleeve. acrolink plugs.
outer diameter: 4mm; core diameter: 1.1mm. length: 120cm. length from splitter: 38cm.
thickness of wire and PVC sleeve make the cable stiffer than others (like 130, for example). tight braid, long heat shrink plastic as strain relief (less rigid would be better) and ear guides. no chin slider. they come with a very nice hard plastic box with small magnets.
honest decent quality conductor material, superb conductivity. nice repairable plugs.
clean sound. copper version preserves lows better; spc version, mids and highs. in this case, i prefer sound with copper version (better, same level of best cables in the list), but i love purple color of sleeve in spc version (also available in orange and green).

*160*. acrolink 6n occ 8c (lightgrey,MV): 95..95..91..102 mΩ..[37g]..210..193 pF..[120cm]
copper (better sound)





*161*. acrolink 6n occ spc 8c (purple,MV): 90..99..83..95 mΩ..[38g]..214..187 pF..[120cm]
spc (nice colors available)





wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867317898.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867337142.html









links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000005778029.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000005827469.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000005968089.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000005907891.html
(other plugs and terminations at same shop)


*163*. acrolink spc 6n occ 16c (silver,MV): 121..109..106..105 mΩ..[29.8g]..154..155 pF..[118cm] [4.4mm plug version]
kindly donated by @candlejack. thank you very much!
structure: 0.10mm*7(29.6awg)*16c [4c/signal:~23.6AWG]. silver plated 6N occ copper. teflon sleeve. acrolink plugs.
total diameter:~3.6mm; length from splitter: 37cm.
long heat shrink plastic as strain relief (less rigid would be better) and ear guides. soft plastic or rubber chin slider. it comes with a very nice hard plastic box with small magnets.
teflon sleeve makes the cable one of the stiffest in the list. guess dielectric capabilities of teflon are higher than PVC and other polymers; this could contribute to darker background, but also to high rigidness and loud microphonics.
honest decent quality conductor material, superb conductivity. nice repairable plugs.
i need to receive the 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter to check the sound.




wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32836248608.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32837314304.html







(you can check the rigidness of the sleeve in this pic)
links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32975245712.html


*130*,* 131*,* 132*. pure silver (and "gold"?) plated 7n occ copper (spc). let's trust it.. 0.05mm*48(27awg,OD:1.2mm)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG]. soft UV-PVC sleeve.
outer diameter: 5mm.
some sellers say it's pure silver wire, golden plated (but it's not). i bet this is one of few chi-cables which are true silver plated (not tin plated).
superb conductivity, very well built (specially 130). very soft and flexible (top one, considering the thickness). another clean sound, reference.
wire used: http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5957





*130*. hck djy1 7n occ spc 8c (brown/gold,eid,M): 100..101..98..111 mΩ..[33.4g]..159..164 pF..[118cm]
length from splitter: 40cm.
eidolic type jack, chin slider; best conductivity from the 3, probably due to jack and solders:




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952865240.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952957093.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001973013.html

*131*. 7n occ spc 8c (brown,oyde,M): 107..114..106..125 mΩ..[31.4g] defective
all brown, oyaide styled jack, no chin slider; received wrong cable twice, and then a defective one (one core is connecting R+ and L- -plug mass-; bad soldering; still unable to unscrew the jack, it seems glued  ):




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32901256493.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32922963030.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32901915547.html

*132*. luna 7n occ spc 8c (brown/gold,furt,M): 121..121..116..151 mΩ..[31.5g]
lunashops, furutech styled jack, no chin slider:
it's curious the different resistance respect cable 130, while using same wire (plugs?).




links (4/8 cores, oyaide/furutech styled jacks):
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5965 (4/8 cores)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32847754222.html (4/8 cores)

other cables using same wire (including terminations for headphones and other iems):
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5979
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32923111127.html
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5975
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5978
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=6206
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=6207


*115*. pure silver.. plated copper wire. (TPU insulatedLayer 0.05mm*50 + shield 0.05mm*45)*4c. equivalent to 24.5awg when using shield layer (two cores/wire, so equivalent to 8 cores).
TPU sleeve. shiny white or grey available, great look. soft, but not much flexible, even considering the loose braid.
white: spc+shield 4c[8c] (white silver,oyde,MV): 137/128..136/126..131/131..139/139 mΩ..[26.9g]..110..92 pF..[118cm]
outer diameter: 6mm. length from splitter: 40cm.




grey (hck version):




wire used: http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5932















links:
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=6003
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32959055202.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32956288137.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005667054.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32879385486.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32880716325.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32885809299.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000006050538.html
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=6117
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=6081
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=6066


*140*. hck djt1 6n gc-occ 8c (brown,alo,M): 293/303..298/306..292/292..302/304 mΩ..[17g]..136..133 pF..[127/131cm]
outer diameter: 3mm. length from splitter: 39cm.
alo audio styled plugs, with rubber strain reliefs; tiny splitter, chin slider is tight enough to keep in place.
great quality copper. total thickness equivalent to 28awg.
very clean sound, while being very light and ultra flexible.
you notice the better quality of sound (darker background, deeper stage) with this cable compared with cheaper ones. it preserves lows and mids very well.
one of my top recommendations, when at sales, specially if you need a *very light and flexible* *copper *cable. wish they had a 16 cores version of this wire, to lower the resistance.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32945688424.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952044986.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969718857.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979040799.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33004150616.html


*196*. eac rx 6n occ+spc litz 4c (silver+copper,eagle,MV): 167..168..296..288 mΩ..[22.1g]..76..71 pF..[116cm]
outer diameter: 4.6mm. length from splitter: 39cm.
6n occ copper and silver plated copper hybrid cable. PE sheath. from electro acousti . RX series.
groups of twisted strands are twisted into each core, litz geometry.
one material is used for positive signals, and the other for negative/ground, resulting in 26AWG for positive, and 28AWG for negative/ground. my unit uses balanced jack, which i prefer for these kind of cables.
eagle gold plated plugs use to have very good quality.
perception of tonality is what expected. full bass and airy treble. balanced. great highs detail.
very good hybrid one, although i miss the deep stage of more expensive up-occ wires.
with these wires, you feel the sound closer to you than with up-occ wires.
it is very soft and ultra flexible wire. one of my affordable hybrid cables favorites.
















links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000009633191.html


*168*. tw 6n ofc 4c (copper,eid,mmcxM): 164..165..160..179 mΩ..[24.7g]..86..78 pF..[116cm]
structure: 0.10mm*30(OD:1.35mm/25AWG) 5n ofhc, PE sleeve.
outer diameter: 5mm. length from splitter: 47cm.
24awg specified of 5N OFHC, but measurements say 25awg. decent conductivity.
only mmcx (with 2.5, 3.5, and 4.4mm jacks) available. these mmcx plugs from Taiwan are wider than average, their quality is superior, preciser mechanized: safe and easier pop in and out. rotate freely. jack and splitter are also very good quality.
not very flexible wire. look is superb, clear shiny copper.
sound is clean enough, although i prefer 165 by far. overall good quality and nice look, great value when around $35, because of the look and plugs.








links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993421593.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32995734707.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005647153.html


*090*. hck 4n ofc 4c (copper,furt,M): 177.. 202..193..190 mΩ..[24.9g]..92..89 pF..[127cm]
structure: 0.075mm*56(OD:1.5mm/23AWG) 4n ofhc. PVC sheath advertised, but it's a very soft PE sheath.
outer diameter: 5.5mm. length from splitter: 40cm.
litz geometry (7/8 packs of 8/7 twisted strands, twisted between them into each core). and maybe litz enameling, because resistance measurements don't match 23awg (26AWG instead). improper litz remove before soldering could explain this discrepancy, like with cables 192 and 210.
nicehck honest but great quality 4n ofhc cable. it's refreshing to find chinese cables with true wire quality advertised.
good amount of bass. the result is warm. typical decent copper cable.
it is very soft and ultra flexible wire.
nice looking affordable quality copper cable.
















links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000097502378.html


*192*. eac rs 6n upocc litz no-frozen 4c (copper,eagle,MV): 360 mΩ (average)..[23.7g 2pin / 24.3g mmcx]..98..93 pF..[149cm, extra length]
outer diameter: 5mm. length from splitter: 42cm.
6n up-occ copper litz, not frozen, 26awg. ultra soft and cheesy sheath (silicone? kind of PE?). from electro acousti. RS series.
thin threads are twisted together creating thicker threads, which are twisted between them.
it's one of the softest and most flexible wire in my list. guess the cause is the sleeve. you have to take care of it. it melts instantaneously with fire, and looks weak and cheesy (noticed it when removing the litz from the naked wire i bought).
resistance measurements of the cable are more proper of a 28awg wire than 26awg, but parallel capacitance measurements are pretty low.
i don't know the material used to enamel the strands, but it's hard to remove before soldering. this could explain the higher resistance than expected, and also the nice capacitance.
i wasn't expecting much from this cheap wire, but it has impressed me. black background and big stage, like other higher quality up-occ wires. it's not as good as 7n frozen litz versions, but i much prefer it to other similar priced chinese wires.
lows are good textured and keep good rumble, highs aren't swallowed like in other cheap copper cables.
together with ultra softness and suppleness and price, this cable becomes very interesting. great value (consider to add components like if it was a custom cable, and check price difference).












wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007820233.html (very affordable)





links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33004747860.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000413868760.html


----------



## hakuzen (Aug 26, 2020)

*CABLES BELOW 400mΩ. info, pics, comments, links. PART 5 of 6


065*. jcally 5n painted ofc/tpc 4c (various colors,cheap furt,MV)
structure: 0.08mm*63(22AWG)*4c pvc sleeve. 500D fiber yarn, to absorb moisture.
they say copper is plated, and then painted. various colors and combinations available. some versions come with a nice small soft fabric zipper pouch.
superb conductivity, due to thickness of cable. similar structure than cable 125, but strands are 0.08mm instead of 0.10mm.
sound is less clean than cable 125, because of worse quality of copper, paint around copper, and worse plugs and solders (found one unit where some threads of the cores are not well soldered; small space to solder?). but way cheaper and good enough for not very resolving iems.
colors are nice, but i'd prefer to achieve it by coloring sleeves, rather than painting conductor.
zsn termination (c-type) is intended for QDC and BQEYZ: pins are inverted polarity respect KZs, but perfectly usable (no issues).

copper 5n ofc/tpc not painted?: 88/86..89/89..90/82..92/93 mΩ..[36g]..133..146 pF..[117cm]
outer diameter: 5.1mm. length from splitter: 36cm.





dark blue painted 5n tpc: 84..*184*..80..107 mΩ..[34.4g]





4 colors painted (these are the plugs i got with dark blue cable; cheap look)





gold painted 5n tpc





possible wire used: http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=6229 (not accurate structure, doubtful quality)
or: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32945488579.html (more accurate structure, doubtful quality)
(although conductor quality doesn't match; it's probably 4N or 5N ofc, like jc ally claims)





links:
copper (not painted?):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32995790233.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32954964343.html
copper+gold:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32995762667.html
silver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957936506.html
silver+gold:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960771422.html
gold:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32958004749.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32959362129.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993765614.html
dark blue:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957229163.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32959322283.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32995818187.html
silver+dark blue:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957125438.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957189326.html
4 colors:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32959266536.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957113799.html


*053*. great conductivity. some details (strain reliefs, easier repairable plugs) are better in (052). this wire is thicker, softer but less flexible. weight: 27.2g. variants: copper/ mixed copper & silver plated / silver plated (various colors, worse conductivity though).
structure could be: 0.10mm*19(25awg)*8c [2c/signal:22.5AWG]. if true, and wire material/plugs were better quality, it'd measure about 95mΩ (15-20mΩ less).
however, different color versions use different wire.
decent sound and quality and superb conductivity for the price.

hck ct1 ofc 8c (brown,slim plugs,M): 110..avg (115 mmcx)..[27g]..many measured





hck tdy1 tpc 8c (silver,slim plugs,M): 134/155..163/150..132/138..148/152 mΩ





other colors and wires:














links:
brown:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32916162030.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955106234.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32967812606.html
silver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32914622984.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32982483321.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955233095.html
black:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32913860097.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32982459409.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955880601.html
orange+silver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32913561570.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978957265.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955237212.html
red+silver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32913617162.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32982495142.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955912501.html
copper+silver
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32916975214.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32982355990.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957246972.html


*145*. this wire looks like (053). in fact, same colors available (orange+white, red+white, silver..). but brown color version of this cable says it's spc, while brown (053) is copper. the wire is not identical, when you close look at it.
anyway, superb conductivity for the price as well.
this is audio-technica plug version; other non-standard terminations are available.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887178817.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887556304.html


*052*. oem (various re-branded) chinese cable.
good conductivity, very well built, quite long threaded (repairable and trimmable) plugs.
ofc or tin/alloy plated ofc (unsure, each color use different wire).
0.08mm*19(27awg)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG] or 0.10mm*19(25awg)*8c [2c/signal:22.5AWG].
various terminations, colors: gold, silver, silver+copper, copper, brown, black.
soft and flexible, but in different grades (like conductivity), depending of the wire and color.

oem tpc 8c (gold,eid): 96..99..91..104 mΩ..[27.5g]
BEWARE: version with gold plated jack (instead of nickel/rhodium) is being sent from some shops; different wire, resistance ~235mΩ





oem tpc 8c (silver,eid): 130 mΩ..average..(many measured)





oem tpc+ofc? 8c (silver+copper,eid,M): 135/131..131/132..190/184..208/240 mΩ
one type of conductor used for signal, the other type for ground (negative/cold, in balanced)





oem tpc 8c (copper,eid,M): 180 mΩ..average..[24.7g]..(many measured, the most flexible)





oem tpc 8c (brown,eid,M): 188..188..185..185 mΩ





possible wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32911867550.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32846230753.html



















or:





links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881372793.html (last sent was the worst conductivity version)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32989617222.html (don't know which version they'll send)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32900868698.html (don't know which version they'll send)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32880388943.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32882694116.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32992895977.html
(there are other shops and re-brands)


*051*. tpc 8c (grey,eid,M): 128..128..126..138..[27.4g]
very similar to cables 052. same jacks and strain reliefs, but different termination plugs (2pins version is flush, not protruding; different splitter and chin slider).
wire could be similar quality to the best 052s.







links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041122912.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32888022853.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33051252394.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038948414.html


*066*. jcally 5n painted tpc 8c (black,cheap furt,MV)
structure: 0.07mm*25(27awg)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG]. 500D nylon. 0.4u plated thickness. anti-oxidation protective paint. pvc sleeve, various colors.
nice conductivity. but i don't like this kind of cheap furutech styled jack (one signal core is not well soldered in one tested unit; small space for solder?).
softer and more flexible than 065.
good enough for not very resolving iems.
zsn termination (c-type) is intended for QDC and BQEYZ: pins are inverted polarity respect KZs, but perfectly usable (no issues).

black (3.5mm,qdc): *249*..130..126..126 mΩ..[29.2g]
black (3.5mm,2pin): 155..146..142..142
black (3.5mm,mmcx): 155..145..138..140





silver:





gold:





links:
black:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32994432994.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32959286936.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32965501955.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32971877740.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32965649117.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957213673.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32944517378.html
silver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955789068.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957846448.html
gold:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32947859742.html


*155*. oem (various re-brands) silver spc 8c (silver,eid,MV): 256/254..258/249..245/245..260/246 mΩ..[23.4g]
advertised as pure silver, it's spc, or even tin/alloy plated copper.
it's funny to see prices going from $80 ("pure silver") to $27 at different shops. the cable is identical.
although less conductive than 051, 052, 053, guess conductor material is better, maybe true silver plated better copper (price wouldn't be justified otherwise). AB listening is pendent.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963189583.html   nicehck cy1
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963249926.html   nicehck vs audio
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32982939514.html   toneking avckck
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32964307166.html   antcodo (way cheapest!, various terminations, but not 2.5/4.4mm)
(there are other shops and re-brands)


----------



## hakuzen (Aug 26, 2020)

*CABLES BELOW 400mΩ. info, pics, comments, links. PART 6 of 6


110*. 7n spc 16c (silver,viablue): 165..145..155..155 mΩ
16 very thin cores of spc wire.






*120*. bgvp 6n occ+spc? 8c (grey) =DM6 stock: 169..173..*277*..190 mΩ
bgvp spc cable, identical to DM6 stock cable (but this has balanced, straight plug). nice looking (grey and silver), ear guides cover part of the mmcx plug. but strain relief of jack is too short and stiff, conductivity could be better, and one of the solders in my unit was not as good as the others. they give extended info of the cable at product's page, but it doesn't seem to match reality, after measuring it. anyway, one of the best stock cables provided.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32874694013.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32951347452.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32863920457.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32885943357.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867032796.html


*100*. impactAudio infinite 5n ofc 4c (custom,MV):  190..190..182..180 mΩ
impact audio customized cable. this is not my unit. true eidolic plugs, excellent built and look. voluminous and heavy, due to the thick braided textile sleeve. honest 5n copper cable. pity for us he is taking some vacations now.






*064*. hck ct4 ofc 16c (brown,M): 193..208..168..202 mΩ [22.6g]..[119cm]
outer diameter: 3.6mm. length from splitter: 39cm.
last iteration of budget nicehck cables. best conductivity and build quality in the cheapest segment (<$10).
2pins version uses flush plugs, like previous iteration, good for flush sockets (like in most KZs), even for protruding sockets.
new jack, it doesn't seem to be easily repairable, but like its shape, beveled to provide more grip.
strain relief is a bit rigid.
i much like the new splitter (same as used in cables 133 -Gu's-), small and elegant.
very soft and flexible. sound is decent (good for the price). great value.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33030782005.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33028628655.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33032627753.html


*060*. hck ct3 ofc 8c (brown,furt,M): 206/210..206/204..200/205..*486*/195 mΩ [19g]
great conductivity and build quality in the cheapest segment (<$10) cables.
very soft and flexible. blue point marks ground/- pin.
sound is acceptable.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32971728152.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974695270.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974803008.html


*063*. hck tdy3 tpc 16c (black,furt,M): 223..226..225..230 mΩ..[21.9g]
again, not remarkable conductivity being a 16 cores wire.
very soft and flexible. not ear guides. blue point marks ground/- pin.
decent sound.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32953432742.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32956603145.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32959059131.html


*055*. tpc 16c (silver,oyde,M): 221/232..218/236..221/221..232/235 mΩ
16 cores, but worse conductivity than some cheaper 8 cores. (050) is its 8 cores sibling. very soft and flexible, though. decent sound.
silver:






*070*. tpc 16c (pink,eid,M): 240..240..237..252 mΩ..[22.2g]
ultra soft and flexible. nice color for pink lovers. better jack (my fav) than other 16 cores cables.
decent sound.






*054*. lz 6n frozen spc 8c (brown,M): 240..240..240..300 mΩ..[22.9g]..144..137 pF..[123cm]
outer diameter: 4.4mm. length from the splitter: 39cm.
6n frozen spc.. maybe, but thin conductor (it could be 0.1mm*7*8c)




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952794266.html


*062*. hck ct2 ofc 16c (brown,furt,M): *402*/235..259/243..239/250..244/246 mΩ..[22.5g]
worse conductivity (narrower conductor) than its 8 cores sibling.
very soft and flexible. not ear guides. blue point marks ground/- pin.
decent sound.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32954926911.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32953516959.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32956212644.html


*050*. 2pins version is wrong molded for kz (but good for BQEYZ KC2, for example) in the 2 units i own -watch phase!-. you can remold the ear guides. soft and flexible.
various colors and terminations.

tpc 8c (black,oyde,M): 260..270..260..260 mΩ





tpc 8c (gold,oyde,M): 346..*636*..374..443 mΩ





links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889396437.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32854751277.html


*059*. kz spc 8c (silver+gold,oyde,M): 281..278..250..255 mΩ..[17.9g]
kz upgrade cable.
structure: 0.05mm*25(30awg)*8c, equivalent to 27AWG per signal. silver color alloy plated + gold color alloy plated ofc (of course it's not true silver and gold plated).
terminations available: 2pins type A (0.75mm), type C (zsn, 0.75mm), mmcx.
only 3.5mm jack (single end) found. no chin slider (you could try to insert a rubber/silicone o-ring).
it uses more even spc wires (silver color alloy plated and gold color alloy plated ofc copper) than last kz cable (058), so you don't find so high and random resistance difference.
good conductivity for the price, decent jack, good strain reliefs, it's last and best upgrade cable made by kz now.






*081*. audbos/tenhz p4 pro stock spc/tpc? 4c (silver): 282/282..283/279..275/275..275/275 mΩ
structure: 0.08mm*14(~28AWG)*4cores.
the cores are twisted and a transparent sleeve covers the whole cable. the result is very thin, but not much flexible.
good conductivity for an stock cable. plugs look cheap, though.






*105*. 7n silver 4c (silver,mps): 300..290..280..280 mΩ
7n pure silver, bought at nicehck. but it's very thin, so conductivity is not that great






*057*. nicehck spc 8 cores. very well built, but thin wire, so conductivity is far worse than (052). various colors (and materials?). light and very flexible.
hck spc 8c (silver,furt,M): 310..303..302..319 mΩ




copper:




silver-copper:




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32884233509.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955497775.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32883824667.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955513689.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32859444405.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32959059115.html


*080*. tin audio t2 stock spc/tpc? 4c (silver,furt): 331..325..318..319 mΩ
the sleeve has a fabric touch. plastic mmcx plugs.
thin and very flexible.






*082*. toneking t4 stock spc/tpc 8c (blue+black): 348..341..358..357 mΩ
structure: 0.05(or 0.045)mm*20+400D-nylon(~31awg)*8cores. equivalent to ~28.2AWG. PU soft sleeve.
metal plugs, thin cable. braid is very tight. soft and decent flexibility.




wire used: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32922148927.html




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32850443702.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32895975577.html


*061*. hck tdy4 spc 8c (black,furt,M): 350 mΩ..average..[17.4g]..(many measured)
quite lower conductivity than copper version (narrower conductor).
very soft and flexible. blue point marks ground/- pin.
sound is acceptable.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32973046302.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32971785145.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32972040232.html


*058*. kz tpc+ofc 8c (silver+copper,oyde,M)
type A(0.75): 216..213..479..503 mΩ
type B(0.78): 541..552..222..220 mΩ
kz upgrade 8 cores cable. two types of wire used (copper and sliver plated copper), which have very different resistance. one type is used for signals (left, right), the other type for ground (cold signals in balanced). the problem is that you can't know which material is used for each (got 2 cables, different configuration; it seems random). dunno why they don't use one core of each type for each signal (that would be real copper+spc mixed), if possible.
in one cable, right plug was molded reversed for kz (had to use a hair dresser to remold it).






*037*. kz mmcx tpc 4c (silver,oyde): 384..384..375..376 mΩ
kz cheap upgrade cable for mmcx. good conductivity for the price







links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...le-Use-For-Shure-SE535-SE846/32820576571.html


*056*. trn spc 6nocc 8c tA (various colors,cheapBal furt).trn 8 cores cable.
advertised structure is: 0.08mm*25(26awg)*8c [2c/signal:.~23AWG], "6N monocrystalline occ copper, plated with 85 microns of extruded silver, kevlar fiber reinforced" (judging by the price, it could be alloy plated ofc copper). PE sleeve.
but it looks more of 0.07mm*25(27.2awg)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG], given the resistance values.
the wire looks great (very low resistance), the plugs and splitter look cheap (black color hides this better). available in 0.75mm, 0.78mm, mmcx, and 3.5mm, 2.5mm (balanced),
it would be great if they right soldered the cores; only 1 core for some signals, and possibly, many strands of the cores broken while soldering. very poor solder work.
you won't notice the difference between left and right, in volume (<0.2dB imbalance), but i don't like this uneven measures, it spoils the purpose of using a decent wire. left signal could be lost with time (very few strands of only one core have been soldered).

black and silver: *423*/*414*/*249*/*260*..*219*/*216*/*245*/*240*..*289*/*244*/*480*/*475*..150/*223*/145/135 mΩ





gold and silver: *429*/*454*/*448*..*289*/*219*/*218*..*265*/135/*245*..*137*/*267*/128 mΩ


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## hakuzen

reserved


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## hakuzen

reserved


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## hakuzen (Dec 6, 2019)

*CABLES FOR KZs (BELOW $40, MOST BELOW $25). MEASUREMENTS.*

resistance, in mΩ: left, right, groundL [, groundR] or L+, R+, L-, R- (balanced), and [weight], in g.
measured with high precision multimeter.
blue color: @BadReligionPunk measurements

notations:
wire material: spc= silver/tin/alloy plated copper; ofc: oxygen-free-copper; <num>c=number of cores
color: silver= white/silver; copper= orange/pink; brown= brown/dark copper; gold= yellow
chinese jack style (metallic):
eid= eidolic; oyde= oyaide; furt=furutech; alo=alo audio; bsp=bispa; scrf=switchcraft
2pins: curved=angled plug; tA=0.75; tB=0.78; tC=curved for zsn available

"upgrade" (separately sold):
065. jc ally 5n ofc/tpc 4c (copper,cheap furt,tC).........88/86..89/89..90/82..92/93..[36]
065. jc ally 5n spc/ofc 4c (dark blue,cheap furt,tC)....84..*184*..80..107..[34.4]
066. jcally 5n tpc 8c (black,cheap furt,tC)..................*249*/155/155..130/145/146..126/138/142..126/140/142..[29.2]
053. hck ct1 ofc 8c (brown,bsp).................................110 average (115 mmcx) many measured
053. hck tdy1 spc 8c (silver,bsp)................................134..163..132..148 (silver plated)
052. spc 8c (gold,eid)..................................................96..99..91..104
051. spc 8c (grey,eid).................................................128..128..126..138..[27.4]
052. spc 8c (silver,eid)................................................134/126..127/126..129/127..129/129
052. spc+ofc 8c (silver+copper,eid)............................135/131..131/132..190/184..208/240
196. eac 6n occ+spc litz 4c (silv+copp,eagle)............167..168..296..288..[22.1]..76..71 pF..[116cm]
090. hck 4n ofc 4c (copper,furt)..................................177.. 202..193..190..[24.9]..92..89 pF..[127cm]
052. spc 8c (copper,eid).............................................180..average (many measured)
052. spc 8c (brown,eid)..............................................188..188..185..185
064. hck ct4 ofc 16c (brown)......................................193..208..168..202..[22.6]
060. hck ct3 ofc 8c (brown,furt)..................................206/210..206/204..200/205..*486*/195
055. spc 16c (silver,oyde)...........................................221..218..221..232
070. spc 16c (pink,eid)................................................240..240..237..252
063. hck tdy3 tpc 16c (black,furt)................................223..226..225..230
062. hck ct2 ofc 16c (brown,furt)................................*402*/235..259/243..239/250..244/246..[22.5]
054. lz 6n frozen copper 8c (brown)...........................240..240..240..300
155. "silver" spc 8c (silver,eid)...................................256/254..258/249..245/245..260/246
050. spc 8c (black,oyde)............................................260..270..260..260
059. kz spc 8c (silver+gold,oyde,tC)..........................281..278..250..255..[17.9]
057. hck spc 8c (silver,furt)........................................310..303..302..319
061. hck tdy4 spc 8c (black,furt)................................350..average..(many measured)
056. trn spc 6nocc 8c tA (black+silver,cheapBal furt).*423*/*414*/*249*/*260*..*219*/*216*/*245*/*240*..*289*/*244*/*480*/*475*..150/*223*/145/135
056. trn spc 6nocc 8c tA (yellow+silver,cheapBal furt).*429*..*289*..*265*..137
056. trn spc 6nocc 8c tA (yellow+silver,cheap furt).....*454*/*448*..*219*/*218*..135/*245*..*267*/128
058. kz spc+ofc 8c tA (silver+copper,oyde)................216..213..479..503 (diff wires)
058. kz spc+ofc 8c tB (silver+copper,oyde)................541..552..222..220 (diff wires)
031. kz curved spc 4c (silver/transp,jack black rings).350/360/400..350/370/390..350/370/400
050. spc 8c (gold,oyde).............................................346..*636*..374..443
014. kz zsn spc 4c (copper,tC)...................................415/302..425/307..445/307..595/308
038. kzx4197 spc 8c (silver,metal plugs)....................430..avg (many tested, green/blue patina)
042. trn curved spc 4c (silver,thick coat,metal)..........570..520..520
015. kz zsn spc 4c (silver,tC)......................................607..630..653..648
030. kz straight spc 4c (silver)....................................670/700..670/700..670/700
040. kz straight ofc spc 4c (grey,thick coat)................690..700..680
032. kz curved spc 4c (silver,jack white rings)............630/760..600/620..610/830
034. spc (orange,transparent plugs)..........................700..700..700
035. spc (grey,transparent plugs)...............................640..790..660
043. trn curved spc 4c (black,thick coat)..710/720/710..730/750/750..700/730/860..730/740/740

stock curved type:
014. kz zsn stock spc 4c (copper)............................415/302..425/307..445/307..595/308
014. kz zsn stock mic spc 4c (copper).....................395/423..*1011*/*1249*..401/494..647/711
006. kz es3 stock mic...............................................660..660..660..680
008. kz zsr stock mic................................................640..640..880
017. kz as06 stock (braided)....................................775..797..784..811
012. kz as10 stock mic (braided) .............................876..876..903..905
002. kz zst stock mic.................................................950..870..870
009. kz zs10 stock mic..............................................850..*1220*..940..780
011. kz zsa stock mic (braided).................................876..*1179*..862..764
016. kz zsn stock spc 4c (brown)..............................961/960..701/995..825/790..771/1102
016. kz zsn stock mic spc 4c (brown)........................*2260*..*1161*..831..815

stock straight type:
007. kz zs6 stock......................................................700..600..390
004. kz zs5 stock......................................................660..630..380
013. kz zs4 stock mic................................................689..767..686..701
019. cca c10 stock (braided).....................................816..818..831..818
000. kz zs3 stock mic................................................840..840..840
018. kz zs7 stock mic (braided)................................*1165*..*1133*..*1159*..814


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## hakuzen (Nov 17, 2019)

*CABLES FOR KZs (BELOW $40, MOST BELOW $25). info, pics, comments, links. PART 1 of 2*


*065*. jc ally 5n painted ofc/spc 4c (various colors,cheap furt,tC)
structure: 0.08mm*63(22AWG)*4c pvc sleeve. 500D fiber yarn, to absorb moisture.
they say copper is plated, and then painted. various colors and combinations available. some versions come with a nice small soft fabric zipper pouch.
superb conductivity, due to thickness of cable.
the jack is low quality, though (it's the same than cable 056, trn). this could explain the soldering issues in some units (found one unit where some threads of the cores are not well soldered; small space to solder?).
colors are nice, but i'd prefer to achieve it by coloring sleeves, rather than painting conductor.
zsn termination (c-type) is intended for QDC and BQEYZ: pins are inverted polarity respect KZs, but perfectly usable (no issues).

copper 5n ofc/spc? not painted?: 88/86..89/89..90/82..92/93..[36g]





dark blue painted 5n spc: 84..*184*..80..107..[34.4g]





4 colors painted (these are the plugs i got with dark blue cable; cheap look)





gold painted 5n spc





possible wire used: http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=6229 (not accurate structure, doubtful quality)
or: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32945488579.html (more accurate structure, doubtful quality)
(although conductor quality doesn't match; it's probably 4N or 5N ofc, like jc ally claims)





links:
links:
copper (not painted?):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32995790233.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32954964343.html
copper+gold:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32995762667.html
silver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957936506.html
silver+gold:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32960771422.html
gold:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32958004749.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32959362129.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32993765614.html
dark blue:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957229163.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32959322283.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32995818187.html
silver+dark blue:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957125438.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957189326.html
4 colors:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32959266536.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957113799.html


*066*. jcally 5n painted tpc 8c (black,cheap furt,tC)
structure: 0.07mm*25(27awg)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG]. 500D nylon. 0.4u plated thickness. anti-oxidation protective paint. pvc sleeve, various colors.
nice conductivity. but i don't like this kind of cheap furutech styled jack (one signal core is not well soldered in one tested unit; small space for solder?).
softer and more flexible than 065.
good enough for not very resolving iems.
zsn termination (c-type) is intended for QDC and BQEYZ: pins are inverted polarity respect KZs, but perfectly usable (no issues).

black (zsn version): *249*..130..126..126..[29.2g]
black (3.5mm,2pin): 155..146..142..142
black (3.5mm,mmcx): 155..145..138..140





silver:





gold:





links:
black:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32994432994.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32959286936.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32965501955.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32971877740.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32965649117.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957213673.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32944517378.html
silver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955789068.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957846448.html
gold:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32947859742.html


*053*.
great conductivity. some details (strain reliefs, easier repairable plugs) are better in (052). this wire is thicker, softer but less flexible. weight: 27.2g. variants: copper/ mixed copper & silver plated / silver plated (various colors, worse conductivity though).
structure could be: 0.10mm*19(25awg)*8c [2c/signal:22.5AWG]. if true, and wire material/plugs were better quality, it'd measure about 95mΩ (15-20mΩ less).
however, different color versions use different wire.
decent sound and quality and superb conductivity for the price.

hck ct1 ofc 8c (brown,slim plugs,M): 110..avg (115 mmcx)..[27g]..many measured





hck tdy1 tpc 8c (silver,slim plugs,M): 134/155..163/150..132/138..148/152





other colors and wires:














links:
brown:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32916162030.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955106234.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32967812606.html
silver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32914622984.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32982483321.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955233095.html
black:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32913860097.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32982459409.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955880601.html
orange+silver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32913561570.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32978957265.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955237212.html
red+silver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32913617162.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32982495142.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955912501.html
copper+silver
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32916975214.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32982355990.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957246972.html


*052*. oem (various re-branded) chinese cable.
good conductivity, very well built, quite long threaded (repairable and trimmable) plugs.
ofc or tin/alloy plated ofc (unsure, each color use different wire).
0.08mm*19(27awg)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG] or 0.10mm*19(25awg)*8c [2c/signal:22.5AWG].
various terminations, colors: gold, silver, silver+copper, copper, brown, black.
soft and flexible, but in different grades (like conductivity), depending of the wire and color.

oem spc 8c (gold,eid): 96..99..91..104..[27.5]
BEWARE: version with gold plated jack (instead of nickel/rhodium) is being sent from some shops; different wire, resistance ~235mΩ





oem spc 8c (silver,eid): 130..avg..many measured





oem spc+ofc? 8c (silver+copper,eid): 135/131..131/132..190/184..208/240
one type of conductor used for signal, the other type for ground (cold, in balanced)





oem spc 8c (copper,eid): 180..avg..[24.7]..(many measured, the most flexible)





oem spc 8c (brown,eid): 188..188..185..185





possible wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32911867550.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32846230753.html



















or:





links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32881372793.html (last sent was the worst conductivity version)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32989617222.html (don't know which version they'll send)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32900868698.html (don't know which version they'll send)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32880388943.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32882694116.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32992895977.html
(there are other shops and re-brands)


*051*. tpc 8c (grey,eid): 128..128..126..138..[27.4g]
very similar to cables 052. same jacks and strain reliefs, but different termination plugs (2pins plug is flush, not protruding; different splitter and chin slider).
wire could be similar quality to the best 052s.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041122912.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32888022853.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33051252394.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038948414.html


*196*. eac 6n occ+spc litz 4c (silver+copper,eagle,MV): 167..168..296..288 mΩ..[22.1g]..76..71 pF..[116cm]
outer diameter: 4.6mm. length from splitter: 39cm.
electro acousti 6n occ copper and silver plated copper hybrid cable. PE sheath.
groups of twisted strands are twisted into each core, litz geometry.
one material is used for positive signals, and the other for negative/ground, resulting in 26AWG for positive, and 28AWG for negative/ground. my unit uses balanced jack, which i prefer for these kind of cables.
eagle gold plated plugs use to have very good quality.
perception of tonality is what expected. full bass and airy treble. balanced. great highs detail.
very good hybrid one, although i miss the deep stage of more expensive up-occ wires.
with these wires, you feel the sound closer to you than with up-occ wires.
it is very soft and ultra flexible wire. one of my affordable hybrid cables favorites.












links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000009633191.html


*090*. hck 4n ofc 4c (copper,furt,M): 177.. 202..193..190 mΩ..[24.9g]..92..89 pF..[127cm]
structure: 0.075mm*56(OD:1.5mm/23AWG) 4n ofhc. PVC sheath advertised, but it's a very soft PE sheath.
outer diameter: 5.5mm. length from splitter: 40cm.
litz geometry (7/8 packs of 8/7 twisted strands, twisted between them into each core). and maybe litz enameling, because resistance measurements don't match 23awg (26AWG instead). improper litz remove before soldering could explain this discrepancy, like with cables 192 and 210.
nicehck honest but great quality 4n ofhc cable. it's refreshing to find chinese cables with true wire quality advertised.
good amount of bass. the result is warm. typical decent copper cable.
it is very soft and ultra flexible wire. i'd rate this near cables 168 and 192.
nice looking affordable quality copper cable.












links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000097502378.html


*155*. oem (various re-brands) silver spc 8c (silver,eid): 256/254..258/249..245/245..260/246..[23.4g]
advertised as pure silver, it's spc, or even tin/alloy plated copper.
it's funny to see prices going from $80 ("pure silver") to $27 at different shops. the cable is identical.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32963189583.html nicehck cy1
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32963249926.html nicehck vs audio
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32982939514.html toneking avckck
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32964307166.html antcodo (way cheapest!, various terminations, but not 2.5/4.4mm)
(there are other shops and re-brands)


----------



## hakuzen (Nov 17, 2019)

*CABLES FOR KZs (BELOW $40, MOST BELOW $25). info, pics, comments, links. PART 2 of 2*


*064*. hck ct4 ofc 16c (brown): 193..208..168..202..[22.6g]
outer diameter: 3.6mm. total length: 124cm (39cm from splitter).
last iteration of budget nicehck cables. best conductivity and build quality in the cheapest segment (<$10).
2pins version uses flush plugs, like previous iteration, good for flush sockets (like in most KZs), even for protruding sockets.
new jack, it doesn't seem to be easily repairable, but like its shape, beveled to provide more grip.
strain relief is a bit rigid.
i much like the new splitter, small and elegant.
very soft and flexible. sound is decent (good for the price). great value.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33030782005.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33028628655.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33032627753.html


*060*. hck ct3 ofc 8c (brown,furt): 206/210..206/204..200/205..*486*/195
best conductivity and build quality in the cheapest segment (<$10) of 8 cores cables.
very soft and flexible. blue point marks ground/- pin.
sound is acceptable.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32971728152.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32974695270.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32974803008.html


*055*. spc 16c (silver,oyde): 221/232..218/236..221/221..232/235
16 cores, but worse conductivity than some cheaper 8 cores. (50) is its 8 cores sibling. very soft and flexible, though.
silver:






*070*. spc 16c (pink,eid): 240..240..237..252..[22.2g]
ultra soft and flexible. nice color for pink lovers. better jack (my fav) than other 16 cores cables.
decent sound.






*063*. hck tdy3 spc 16c (black,furt): 223..226..225..230
again, not remarkable conductivity being a 16 cores wire.
very soft and flexible. not ear guides. blue point marks ground/- pin.
decent sound.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32953432742.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32956603145.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32959059131.html


*062*. hck ct2 ofc 16c (brown,furt): *402*..259..239..244
worse conductivity (narrower conductor) than its 8 cores sibling.
very soft and flexible. not ear guides. blue point marks ground/- pin.
decent sound.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32954926911.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32953516959.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32956212644.html


*050*. 2pins version is wrong molded for kz (but good for BQEYZ, for example) in the 2 units i own -watch phase!-. you can remold the ear guides. soft and flexible.
various colors and terminations.

spc 8c (black,oyde): 260..270..260..260





spc 8c (gold,oyde): 346..*636*..374..443





links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32889396437.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32854751277.html


*059*. kz spc 8c (silver+gold,oyde,tC): 281..278..250..255..[17.9g]
kz upgrade cable.
structure: 0.05mm*25(30awg)*8c, equivalent to 27AWG per signal. silver color alloy plated + gold color alloy plated ofc (of course it's not true silver and gold plated).
terminations available: 2pins type A (0.75mm), type C (zsn, 0.75mm), mmcx.
only 3.5mm jack (single end) found. no chin slider (you could try to insert a rubber/silicone o-ring).
it uses more even spc wires (silver color alloy plated and gold color alloy plated ofc copper) than last kz cable (058), so you don't find so high and random resistance difference.
good conductivity for the price, decent jack, good strain reliefs, it's last and best upgrade cable made by kz now.






*057*. nicehck spc 8 cores. very well built, but thin wire, so conductivity is far worse than (052). various colors (and materials?). light and very flexible.
hck spc 8c (silver,furt): 310..303..302..319




copper:




silver-copper:




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32884233509.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955497775.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32883824667.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955513689.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32859444405.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32959059115.html


*061*. hck tdy4 spc 8c (black,furt): 350..average..(many measured)
quite lower conductivity than copper version (narrower conductor).
very soft and flexible. blue point marks ground/- pin.
sound is acceptable.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32973046302.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32971785145.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32972040232.html
*

056*. trn spc 6nocc 8c tA (various colors,cheapBal furt).
trn 8 cores cable.
advertised structure is: 0.08mm*25(26awg)*8c [2c/signal:.~23AWG], "6N monocrystalline occ copper, plated with 85 microns of extruded silver, kevlar fiber reinforced" (judging by the price, it could be alloy plated ofc copper). PE sleeve.
but it looks more of 0.07mm*25(27.2awg)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG], given the resistance values.
the wire looks great (very low resistance), the plugs and splitter look cheap (black color hides this better). available in 0.75mm, 0.78mm, mmcx, and 3.5mm, 2.5mm (balanced),
it would be great if they right soldered the cores; only 1 core for some signals, and possibly, many strands of the cores broken while soldering. very poor solder work.
you won't notice the difference between left and right, in volume (<0.2dB imbalance), but i don't like this uneven measures, it spoils the purpose of using a decent wire. left signal could be lost with time (very few strands of only one core have been soldered).

black and silver: *423*/*414*/*249*/*260*..*219*/*216*/*245*/*240*..*289*/*244*/*480*/*475*..150/*223*/145/135





gold and silver: *429*/*454*/*448*..*289*/*219*/*218*..*265*/135/*245*..*137*/*267*/128






*058*. kz upgrade 8 cores cable. two types of wire used (copper and sliver plated copper), which have very different resistance. one type is used for signals (left, right), the other type for ground (cold signals in balanced). the problem is that you can't know which material is used for each (got 2 cables, different configuration; it seems random). dunno why they don't use one core of each type for each signal (that would be real copper+spc mixed), if possible.
in one cable, right plug was molded reversed for kz (had to use a hair dresser to remold it).






*031*. great value, difficult to find now (*black rings* in jack)






*014*. kz zsn spc 4c (copper,tC), no mic: 415/302..425/307..445/307..595/308
structure could be 0.05mm*2530AWG)*4cores of ofc copper.
stock zsn cable, sold separately, very affordable.
curved A-type (0.75mm) also available.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32956297616.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32981135983.html


*038*. great value, turns green/blue soon (pairs ok with green/blue and cyan KZ models)






*042*.






*015*. kz zsn spc 4c (silver,tC)
25 threads of silver plated copper plus kevlar fiber into each core.
structure could be 0.04mm*25(32AWG)*4cores.






*030*. first classic kz 4 cores upgrade cable (silver color), straight plug.






*040*.






*032*. first classic kz 4 cores upgrade cable (silver color), curved plug. white rings in jack.






*034*.






*035*.






*043*.


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## hakuzen

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## hakuzen

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## hakuzen

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## hakuzen

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## hakuzen (Nov 17, 2019)

*JACK ADAPTERS
*
adapters with wire are comfortable, but add some resistivity and their quality depends of wire quality (together with plugs and solders quality).

short adapters (minimal or no wire) offer less resistance and you only depend of plugs and solders quality. in the other hand, they stress 3.5mm sockets harder. guess angled adapters will mitigate some of that stress compared to straight ones.

most adapters are 2.5mm TRRS balanced female to 3.5mm TRS male, but there also some 2.5mm balanced to 4.4mm balanced.

DC resistivity measurements (L+,R+,L-,R-, in mΩ):
short:
15. eidolic angled.........................................................10.3/10.3...9.4/9.3...1.9/1.2...2.7/3
25. astrotec AT-P01 angled..........................................15.5...14.8...2.4...3.7
05. eidolic styled straight...............................................6...7.9...4.4...8.1
30. yarbo (styled?) straight...........................................8.8...6.2...10.6...7.2
06. oyaide styled angled...............................................9.7...8.9...8.9...8.6
07. pailics angled.........................................................10.7...8.3...9.1...8.9
10. alo audio (styled?) A32(G) straight.........................8...10...15.5...8.2
20. oem/okcsc angled..................................................12...14...12...13...average (many measured)
08. rean/yongsheng straight........................................10.8...9.8...16.1...33.4
12. dd mini angled........................................................52.4...39.4...39.4...39.9
12. dd mini angled 2.5-4.4............................................52.5...44.9...51.8...68.3
with some cable:
62. eac upocc AgAu+copper litz 8c eagle.....................18.6/20.1...17.4/17.8...17.7/15.8...16.2/14.3
62. eac upocc AgAu+copper litz 8c eagle 2.5f-4.4m.....18.2/18.4...16.9/17...15.5/19.1...15.4/17
60. eac 7n upocc litz 8c eagle.......................................18.8...17.7...16.2...15.5
64. eac upocc AgAu+copper litz 8c eagle 4.4f-3.5m.....17...average (many measured)
50. FiiO BL35................................................................13...12...16.4...X
54. FiiO LB-4.4m 4.4f-2.5m............................................~25



- short adapters (minimum o no wire)


*15*. eidolic angled.....................................10.3/10.3...9.4/9.3...1.9/1.2...2.7/3
most expensive
links:
https://doublehelixcables.com/product/eidolic-2-5mm-trrs-3-5mm-trs-adapter/







*25*. astrotec AT-P01 angled......................15.5...14.8...2.4...3.7
links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32860629855.html






*05*. eidolic styled straight...........................6...7.9...4.4...8.1
love these plugs, but straight
links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32876989769.html









*30*. yarbo (styled?) straight.......................8.8...6.2...10.6...7.2





*06*. oyaide styled angled...........................9.7...8.9...8.9...8.6






*07*. pailics angled......................................10.7...8.3...9.1...8.9
loose socket






*10*. alo audio (styled?) A32(G) straight......8...10...15.5...8.2
links:
https://www.newbecca.com/product/539325396657









*20*. oem/okcsc angled...............................12...14...12...13..average (many measured)
cheapest, but nice built.
links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32865122372.html






*08*. rean/yongsheng straight.....................10.8...9.8...16.1...33.4
loose socket, bad quality.






*12*. dd mini angled...........................52.4...39.4...39.4...39.9
......dd mini angled 2.5-4.4...............52.5...44.9...51.8...68.3
the 2.5mm socket is like those used into sources' cases, so expect longer durability (time will tell).
but conductivity is very poor (the worst by far). the culprit is the flexible gold plated ribbon/pcb used to connect the contacts (thin and not great material probably). the resistance is the same as some 1.2m cables (+plugs), go figure.
links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000164103882.html







- with some cable:


*62*. eac upocc AgAu+copper litz 8c eagle.......................18.6/20.1...17.4/17.8...17.7/15.8...16.2/14.3
......eac upocc AgAu+copper litz 8c eagle 2.5f-4.4m.......18.2/18.4...16.9/17...15.5/19.1...15.4/17
custom adapter from electro acousti (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206), using same wires than cable 175.
7.5cm (not counting plugs). neotech (taiwan) oem up-occ silver 99%+ gold 1% alloy, and frozen 7n up-occ copper litz (best silver and copper wires in my stock, imo).
links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000231198864.html (custom wires and plugs)
8 cores of 28awg, 25AWG/signal.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046978735.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008255130.html
very high quality durable plugs (eagle, rhodium plated over gold plated beryllium copper):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007394708.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007901246.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007708309.html























*60*. eac 7n upocc litz 8c eagle cable............18.8...17.7...16.2...15.5
custom adapter from electro acousti (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206), using same wire than cable 171.
8cm (not counting plugs). neotech (taiwan) oem frozen 7n up-occ copper litz (best copper wire in my stock, imo).
links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000231198864.html (custom wires and plugs)
8 cores of 28awg, 25AWG/signal.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007631873.html
very high quality plugs (eagle, rhodium plated over gold plated beryllium copper):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007394708.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007901246.html

















*64*. eac upocc AgAu+copper litz 8c eagle 4.4f-3.5m.....17...average (many measured)
custom adapter from electro acousti (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206), using same wires than cable 175.
7.5cm (not counting plugs). neotech (taiwan) oem up-occ silver 99%+ gold 1% alloy, and frozen 7n up-occ copper litz (best silver and copper wires in my stock, imo).
eagle 4.4mm female socket is not the usual cheap chinese socket. it is built for many insertions.
3.5mm TRS male and 2.5mm TRRS male versions available as default options.
links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000231198864.html (custom wires and plugs)
8 cores of 28awg, 25AWG/signal.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046978735.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008255130.html
very high quality durable plugs (eagle, rhodium plated over gold plated beryllium copper):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000227685853.html (eagle durable gold plated copper)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007901246.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007579285.html






*50*. FiiO BL35 cable:..................................13...12...16.4...X
couldn't measure ground to R- resistance, because the contact is very deep into the socket.
you'll have to push 2.5mm jack all way long to get sound at right side.
links (many sellers):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32890820615.html






*54*. FiiO LB-4.4m 4.4f-2.5m............................................~25
i don't like much the plugs. 4.4mm female socket looks cheap.




links (many sellers):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969207148.html


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## hakuzen

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## hakuzen

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## hakuzen

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## CoiL

I think Your synapsis-nerves are made from different selection of cables!


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## hakuzen

CoiL said:


> I think Your synapsis-nerves are made from different selection of cables!


makoki (from spanish comic) was wearing some cables on his head.. souvenir from electroshock machine


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## fokta

Congrats... for ur own thread...

what are the basic rules to post here?


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## hakuzen

fokta said:


> Congrats... for ur own thread...
> 
> what are the basic rules to post here?


thanks.

just created this thread because some people suggested that the measurements info should be found easier, rather than buried in posts from different threads.
updating the info is also easier for me this way. 

we can keep discussing in the cables thread, or KZ thread in the case of cables for KZs.
so i don't know about basic rules.. guess there are not rules, other than usual head-fi rules for threads.


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## fokta

hakuzen said:


> thanks.
> 
> just created this thread because some people suggested that the measurements info should be found easier, rather than buried in posts from different threads.
> updating the info is also easier for me this way.
> ...


Noted... 
I was thinking it will be redundant with the previous / other thread. 
And I agree that u need ur own thread for ur hardwork... 
Keep the good jobs... 
I don't want to derail anymore..


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## hakuzen (Jun 1, 2019)

fokta said:


> Noted...
> I was thinking it will be redundant with the previous / other thread.
> And I agree that u need ur own thread for ur hardwork...
> Keep the good jobs...
> I don't want to derail anymore..


i didn't feel any need to "have my own thread" (this is my first thread). only wanted to put all my measurements together. first tried creating articles, which looked nice because of less limitation of pics/files, but this was not practical because i think that every update has to be approved by moderators and i'm making updates frequently.
at last, opted for a new thread, where i could reserve posts to keep all the info together.

edit: i insist, this thread can be useful to find and check many cables resistance measurements. that's all.
the thread where we are discussing the cables is already @Dsnuts one (and KZs thread for KZ cables), so the threads are not redundant. this one is for checking measurements, cables threads for discussing.


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## Dsnuts (Jun 1, 2019)

Subd


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## superuser1

Thanks @hakuzen


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## archy121

Thanks man


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## randomnin

You glorious cable obsessed maniac, you! This is one MVP-level thread, thanks for this!
As consumers become more informed thanks to these kinds of data, I hope the Chinese manufacturers take note and up their cable quality and QC game, too.


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## hakuzen

randomnin said:


> You glorious cable obsessed maniac, you! This is one MVP-level thread, thanks for this!
> As consumers become more informed thanks to these kinds of data, I hope the Chinese manufacturers take note and up their cable quality and QC game, too.


i also do hope that, but i'm afraid it will take long before most chinese makers/sellers understand the value of sincere and honest marketing, and the value of QC and customer support


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## Jon L

Anybody have links to cable 165 and 170 (on Ali?).


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## hakuzen (Jun 9, 2019)

Jon L said:


> Anybody have links to cable 165 and 170 (on Ali?).


you can find links (if not banned) into the spoiler sections (pics, comments, and links of the cables).
these cables are into section 1: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/#post-14985644

EDIT: sorry, @Jon L , missed the right link:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/#post-14985616


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## Barusu Lamperouge

Hi which cables measurements can be used for the below cables -

TRN Replacement Earphone Cable 2 Pin MMCX Upgrade Cable With Mic Use For ZS10 ZS6 ZST PRO V30 ZSR BA10 AS10 QT2 TFZ KZ CCA SHUER
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bGIVfp4U

TRN T2 Earphone Upgrade Cable Silver Plated Line 2.5mm 3.5mm 4.4mm Plug MMCX Connector Use For TENHZ SHUER SE846 FIIO UE NICEHCK
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bWpSMTUG

 TRN Earphone Cable 2 Pin MMCX Upgrade With Mic Use For X6 IM2 V80 ZSA ZS6 ZST ZSR BA10 AS10 QT2 RT-1 CCA TFZ KZ Universal Cable
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/emrZPYc

I'm looking forward to purchase mmcx cables, one with mic and one proper upgrade cable. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


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## hakuzen

sorry, @Jon L , missed the right link:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/#post-14985616

165 links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32997339497.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32997399146.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/33005627267.html
170 links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/1000007909452.html


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## hakuzen

Dani157 said:


> Hi which cables measurements can be used for the below cables -
> 
> TRN Replacement Earphone Cable 2 Pin MMCX Upgrade Cable With Mic Use For ZS10 ZS6 ZST PRO V30 ZSR BA10 AS10 QT2 TFZ KZ CCA SHUER
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bGIVfp4U
> ...


only 3rd of these cables are in my measurements. cable 043 (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/#post-14985640). high resistance.
guess any of the first 2 is better


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## Barusu Lamperouge

hakuzen said:


> only 3rd of these cables are in my measurements. cable 043 (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/#post-14985640). high resistance.
> guess any of the first 2 is better



Thanks for your inputs. Went ahead with 2nd and 3rd. Only reason for purchasing 3rd one was for the mic. Needed one for traveling. High resistance requires more juice? Or they tame treble?


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## hakuzen

Dani157 said:


> Thanks for your inputs. Went ahead with 2nd and 3rd. Only reason for purchasing 3rd one was for the mic. Needed one for traveling. High resistance requires more juice? Or they tame treble?


from my 1st post:
"low resistance is symptom of quality of wires, plugs, and solders (together with total thickness of the conductor, of course).
low resistance is important to get minimum total output impedance (of course, if your source output impedance is high, total will be high regardless of cable resistance), in order to minimize tonal alterations when using iems with balanced armatures.
it's also convenient to decrease attenuation and to increase damping factor and efficiency."
yes, high resistance also needs more juice, but not a notable difference comparing these cables.
they can contribute to tame treble or to make it harsher, depending of the impedance curve of the balanced armatures into your iem. if you are using only dynamic drivers, no tonal alteration.


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## Barusu Lamperouge

hakuzen said:


> from my 1st post:
> "low resistance is symptom of quality of wires, plugs, and solders (together with total thickness of the conductor, of course).
> low resistance is important to get minimum total output impedance (of course, if your source output impedance is high, total will be high regardless of cable resistance), in order to minimize tonal alterations when using iems with balanced armatures.
> it's also convenient to decrease attenuation and to increase damping factor and efficiency."
> ...



Thanks. I'm using only DDs with them. Will use them with either my Tennmak Pro or Piano.


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## Grev

So that Nicehck 8 core cable is still the champion of price to performance ratio.


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## SilverEars (Jul 13, 2019)

Just want to get some opinions on people's experiences on audibility based on impedance.  For those that was aware of impedance differences between the various cables tried, what impedance difference made most difference sonically?  Did you find lowest impedance sounding better or worse, too different?  Also, what about BA based iems compared to dynamic driver ones?  I suspect dynamic driver ones to be least effect though.

So, verifying the impedance is to be sure the cable is not contributing to channel imbalance?

I'm curious because @hakuzen has various measurements of cables, but not sure what significance in value is worth trying out (below what impedance value, etc..).  I'm looking to try out an extremely low impedance cable.


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## gourab1995

SilverEars said:


> Just want to get some opinions on people's experiences on audibility based on impedance.  For those that was aware of impedance differences between the various cables tried, what impedance difference made most difference sonically?  Did you find lowest impedance sounding better or worse, too different?  Also, what about BA based iems compared to dynamic driver ones?  I suspect dynamic driver ones to be least effect though.
> 
> So, verifying the impedance is to be sure the cable is not contributing to channel imbalance?
> 
> I'm curious because @hakuzen has various measurements of cables, but not sure what significance in value is worth trying out (below what impedance value, etc..).  I'm looking to try out an extremely low impedance cable.



I own the zs7 which has a rated impedance of 24 ohms. The zs7 stock cable according to @hakuzen has a very high resistance compared to the kz silver only 8 core. I also have an 8 core cable from jcally which i can only assume has better conductivity than kz cables given the measurements of some other jcally cables and its higher price point.

That being said i don't think that better conductive cables will give you better sounding iems all the time. At least in the case of the zs7 i find the stock cable sounding most coherent, despite its high resistance. The kz silver cable tame bass, make mids weird and highs more pronunciated (latter being a good thing). Whereas the jcally produce better staging with a more aggressive v shape sound which is also not necessarily a good thing depending on whether or not you like a more v shape tuning than it already is on the zs7.

I seem to come back to the original cables after long listening sessions with all of the 3 different cables.

And now go along with the conclusion that, if it doesn't sound good in its stock config. Probably wont sound much better or worse with a different cable, so might as well stick to the ones the iems came with, and tuned with, unless they are physically unusable.


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## hakuzen (Jul 14, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> Just want to get some opinions on people's experiences on audibility based on impedance.  For those that was aware of impedance differences between the various cables tried, what impedance difference made most difference sonically?  Did you find lowest impedance sounding better or worse, too different?  Also, what about BA based iems compared to dynamic driver ones?  I suspect dynamic driver ones to be least effect though.
> 
> So, verifying the impedance is to be sure the cable is not contributing to channel imbalance?
> 
> I'm curious because @hakuzen has various measurements of cables, but not sure what significance in value is worth trying out (below what impedance value, etc..).  I'm looking to try out an extremely low impedance cable.


from my first post:


hakuzen said:


> low resistance is symptom of quality of wires, plugs, and solders (together with total thickness of the conductor, of course).
> low resistance is important to get minimum total output impedance (of course, if your source output impedance is high, total will be high regardless of cable resistance), in order to minimize tonal alterations when using iems with balanced armatures.
> it's also convenient to decrease attenuation and to increase damping factor and efficiency.
> (considering my gear, i'd aim to cables below 200mΩ resistance, ~26awg).


you can find many samples of why the lowest impedance (source's output impedance + cable impedance) is needed for balanced armatures here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...urements-in-post-3-tutorial-in-post-2.800208/
in the case of dynamic drivers, lowest impedance means bigger damping factor, needed for hard to drive phones, like planars.
also, attenuation is lower (efficiency), and you get more loudness perception with same output power (but this difference is smaller than in the two above cases).
in general, lower impedance doesn't provide sound difference by its own, but depending of the gear you are using, it does. check next answer:



gourab1995 said:


> I own the zs7 which has a rated impedance of 24 ohms. The zs7 stock cable according to @hakuzen has a very high resistance compared to the kz silver only 8 core. I also have an 8 core cable from jcally which i can only assume has better conductivity than kz cables given the measurements of some other jcally cables and its higher price point.
> 
> That being said i don't think that better conductive cables will give you better sounding iems all the time. At least in the case of the zs7 i find the stock cable sounding most coherent, despite its high resistance. The kz silver cable tame bass, make mids weird and highs more pronunciated (latter being a good thing). Whereas the jcally produce better staging with a more aggressive v shape sound which is also not necessarily a good thing depending on whether or not you like a more v shape tuning than it already is on the zs7.
> 
> ...


what is happening is that the higher impedance of your stock cable alters true tonality of the zs7, but you appreciate that tonal alteration because it's nearer to the signature you prefer.
it's similar to our discussion about zs6 time ago. higher total output impedance contributed to tame the excessive highs peaks, and average perception became darker, "more bass".
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787
this is an exception, because we usually want to get original iem tonality, no alteration.
edit: btw, try kz silver or jcally cables while using foam tips. the result will be near to what you get with stock cable.


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## SilverEars

I need an iem that's really low impedance to play around with cable impedance values.  I got the measurement rig, but curious what cheap iem has absurdly low impedance response that varies throughout the audible range.  Any ideas?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

SilverEars said:


> I need an iem that's really low impedance to play around with cable impedance values.  I got the measurement rig, but curious what cheap iem has absurdly low impedance response that varies throughout the audible range.  Any ideas?


All the BQEYZ are 15ohm and multi driver. The stock cables run around .700-.900 ohm. That's the lowest I know of. I used to have JVC Fxt100 and fxt200 which were 12 ohm, but they were dual dynamics.


----------



## hakuzen

SilverEars said:


> I need an iem that's really low impedance to play around with cable impedance values.  I got the measurement rig, but curious what cheap iem has absurdly low impedance response that varies throughout the audible range.  Any ideas?


kz zs5 v1. around 4.5ohms@1kHz. 2 dynamic drivers, 2 balanced armatures. now you could find it only in the classifieds.
kz es3 and es4 seem to be below 10ohms@1kHz. 1DD+1BA.
but you don't need low impedance iems to check the impact when using balanced armatures. i was using pai audio mr3 in my rmaa samples, which is 30ohms@1kHz.

another thing is if you want to work about the 1/8 rule (for every kind of phones). not easy to find dynamic drivers below 16ohms@1kHz. you have sony mh755 with that official impedance (i'll measure it to check if it is real).


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## SilverEars (Jul 13, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> kz zs5 v1. around 4.5ohms@1kHz. 2 dynamic drivers, 2 balanced armatures. now you could find it only in the classifieds.
> kz es3 and es4 seem to be below 10ohms@1kHz. 1DD+1BA.
> but you don't need low impedance iems to check the impact when using balanced armatures. i was using pai audio mr3 in my rmaa samples, which is 30ohms@1kHz.
> 
> another thing is if you want to work about the 1/8 rule (for every kind of phones). not easy to find dynamic drivers below 16ohms@1kHz. you have sony mh755 with that official impedance (i'll measure it to check if it is real).


I'm interested in BA drivers because the response skews and varies significantly across the range.  I've tried the usual dynamic drivers of late, like Kanas Pro and MH755, and they get driven well out of my laptop or desktop on board sound card, and those soundcards probably got good amount of output impedance.  And, that's not surprising since small dynamic drivers are approximately or very close to flat impedance response.  16ohms or so, approx flat response wouldn't react much at all with less than 1 ohm cable.  At least I wouldn't suspect, although I can still play around with it and do some A/B as well.

I'm interested in looking at measurements and also trying to see if I perceive the differences.


----------



## Slater

SilverEars said:


> I need an iem that's really low impedance to play around with cable impedance values.  I got the measurement rig, but curious what cheap iem has absurdly low impedance response that varies throughout the audible range.  Any ideas?



ZS5 v1 was ridiculously low; the lowest I’d personally seen in an IEM. If I remember correctly, KZ specs claimed it was 12ohms, but it was in reality like 5ohms or so.


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## gourab1995 (Jul 14, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> from my first post:
> 
> edit: btw, try kz silver or jcally cables while using foam tips. the result will be near to what you get with stock cable.



Thats a fair case. Its just a turn of results based on a change in preference. Then If you take that into account then there is absolutely no definite answer to the question asked, because some may or may not like the change based on his/her preference really.

What I'm saying, its generally a good idea to respect an iem with its original tuning (config), i.e. if its deserving of it in first place.

And the foam tips do help with the sharper treble, but the change the dynamics of the bass and imaging, it feels as if too much "information" is lost. The stage is altered quite a bit in a good way though with bigger foam tips.

I've tried complys, and a set of generic long foam tips. Liked them initially because of that slightly bigger stage, but thought they affected imaging quite a bit, made things a little more blurry, as i continued to hear them more closely.


----------



## Slater

gourab1995 said:


> And the foam tips do help with the sharper treble, but the change the dynamics of the bass and imaging, it feels as if too much "information" is lost. The stage is altered quite a bit in a good way though with bigger foam tips.
> 
> I've tried complys, and a set of generic long foam tips. Liked them initially because of that slightly bigger stage, but thought they affected imaging quite a bit, made things a little more blurry, as i continued to hear them more closely.



This is the main reason why I don’t like foam tips. Also, that they wear out and can’t really be cleaned.

Silicone tips basically last forever, and can be cleaned and sterilized to be like new.


----------



## gourab1995

Slater said:


> This is the main reason why I don’t like foam tips. Also, that they wear out and can’t really be cleaned.
> 
> Silicone tips basically last forever, and can be cleaned and sterilized to be like new.



That's another thing, especially if you have a white or light coloured one, its gonna end up looking like a miniature wild mushroom over a period of a few months.

But they are effective at providing a good seal usually, to an extent more comfortable as well. Only if they didn't give the sense that sound is being thrown into your ears rather than presented. Silicone tips create that 'room effect' better.


----------



## fokta

173...


----------



## ShinAyasaki

Cable 171, the 4-core version costs $82, while the 8-core one actually costs more than twice, with that price at $175. I don't quite get it though, Isn't it suppose to be a bit cheaper?


----------



## hakuzen

ShinAyasaki said:


> Cable 171, the 4-core version costs $82, while the 8-core one actually costs more than twice, with that price at $175. I don't quite get it though, Isn't it suppose to be a bit cheaper?


they use different plugs: 8 cores version needs wider openings. guess they also charge a bit for the extra braid and solder work.
anyway, if you message them, you'll probably get a quote below $164


----------



## randomnin

My multimeter only measures with a precision of 0.1Ohm, so this is as good as it gets. A rough reference, I guess.

€ 2,13
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bETxrqOk
Both A and B connectors, both sides L&R measure 0.7Ohms. The angled one I have with a mic, it has a different 3.5mm connector with more separations. The mic side on one of the separations measures 1Ohm.

€ 8,62
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c1XGyWDw
2-pin, L&R measure 0.1Ohm. Though when I bought it the price was 15€. Great deal, if the wire they send hasn't changed.

€ 7,57
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/u7iJXy4
MMCX, L&R measure 0.3Ohms.

The last one on the list is much softer than the second one, but also tangles a bit easier. I don't hear much of a difference with any of them.


----------



## Grev

Ah yes, again, can’t go wrong with the nicehck/****/kinboohifi(?) 8 core cables, I got the 3rd batch of 10 cables from nicehck recently, very happy with them.


----------



## leftside (Jul 21, 2019)

np


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## subwoof3r (Jul 24, 2019)

Omg.. just checked my account on ali and Electro Acousti (about my cable *173* order) was waiting for an answer from me since july 17th, I didn't received any mail notification for that.. the package was returned to him due to a full name issue.
Just gave him that info now. A bit deceived as I thought have it before my holidays in few days.. damn 
So just an advice but better to check everyday your ali account to ensure not missing any message at all (the new tchat system seems not sending any mail notifications).

_*edit* : oops, thought I was on "Low end. Cheap. Generic. Otherwise bang for buck cable thread"_


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Jul 29, 2019)

@hakuzen any L bending cables you can recommend under $15? Need them for my back IEMs and I prefer L-bending ones as they help in mobility as I usually listen my musics while walking. Couldn't find good cables in budget on AliExpress. Except a BGVP cable with mic but that too was on random store.

And found this as well -
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c04g9Oo0


----------



## hakuzen

Dani157 said:


> @hakuzen any L bending cables you can recommend under $15? Need them for my back IEMs and I prefer L-bending ones as they help in mobility as I usually listen my musics while walking. Couldn't find good cables in budget on AliExpress. Except a BGVP cable with mic but that too was on random store.
> 
> And found this as well -
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c04g9Oo0


there aren't many budget decent cables with L plug yet. i didn't keep a summary of them, and own none, so can't recommend any.
hope chinese manufacturers start to provide L plug versions of their cables.
the cable you've found looks like cable 082 of my list. a bit thin, around 350mOhms/signal. but it's under $15, so guess it's an option to consider while more L cables are deployed.
search for "angled" or "L plug/jack" in the cables thread; iirc, some head-fiers posted links to other affordable L cables time ago.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Thanks @hakuzen will check the thread. Appreciate your help


----------



## hte80

Have you had a chance to look at these yet (Linsoul HC-08 )? 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32948963889.html

Are they worth buying? Or just pass and get the ISN ones? Seems like those were the some of the lowest resistance cables in your list.......Or am I using the data in totally the wrong way? haha


----------



## Hal Rockwell

I'm looking for a 2.5 TRRS female balanced to 3.5 SE male adapter. I found a couple of offerings from known Chinese brands like FiiO, iBasso, Hidizs and VE. Are there any other products I should consider?


----------



## hakuzen

Hal Rockwell said:


> I'm looking for a 2.5 TRRS female balanced to 3.5 SE male adapter. I found a couple of offerings from known Chinese brands like FiiO, iBasso, Hidizs and VE. Are there any other products I should consider?


link for a list (with resistance measurements) of this kind of adapters is in my first post.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/res...omments-and-links.907998/page-2#post-14985730


----------



## iron2k

Hi @hakuzen, can you take a look to this wire please???

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32653221244.html

what you think about it???

I haven't found a cable made with it


----------



## hakuzen

iron2k said:


> Hi @hakuzen, can you take a look to this wire please???
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32653221244.html
> 
> ...


i don't know, haven't located any cable using this wire either.
hakugei seems to have interesting wires, but i can't trust in a wire with such lack of info: they only say there are 133 strands, but no info about the thickness of these strands, nor info about total equivalent gauge.
sure it will be more flexible than others having similar total thickness, because of the amount and thin diameter of the strands.
but there are also caveats: to solder litz shielded strands (let's believe that these many strands are individually enameled), you have to peel the cable and remove the litz of the contacted part before, you have to apply considerable heat and contact pressure; if the strands are extremely thin, there is a high chance to break many of them during this process.
besides, i'm getting better sound results with thicker strands (although not so flexible), even with solid core wires lately.
i also doubt it is 7N purity grade, even OCC. but can't confirm this. the wire of cable 125 also pretends to be 7N OCC (which i doubt, as well), no litz, and i like the sound i get with it, so this wire could be also good enough.
i only consider taiwan neotech up-occ wires now, either solid, multi-strand, copper or silver or mixed, litz or not litz, frozen or not.. they are the only wires i can completely vouch for, because i've tried many of them, and there is a clear difference in the sound. sure they are more expensive than this 7n occ wire (this wire could be around 22awg, i guess, and costs the same than frozen up-occ 28awg), but my choice is clear.


----------



## iron2k

hakuzen said:


> i don't know, haven't located any cable using this wire either.
> hakugei seems to have interesting wires, but i can't trust in a wire with such lack of info: they only say there are 133 strands, but no info about the thickness of these strands, nor info about total equivalent gauge.
> sure it will be more flexible than others having similar total thickness, because of the amount and thin diameter of the strands.
> but there are also caveats: to solder litz shielded strands (let's believe that these many strands are individually enameled), you have to peel the cable and remove the litz of the contacted part before, you have to apply considerable heat and contact pressure; if the strands are extremely thin, there is a high chance to break many of them during this process.
> ...


Great  thanks a lot for your comments. You really gave me the info I needed.


----------



## Slater

hakuzen said:


> i only consider taiwan neotech up-occ wires now, either solid, multi-strand, copper or silver or mixed, litz or not litz, frozen or not.. they are the only wires i can completely vouch for, because i've tried many of them, and there is a clear difference in the sound.



Which numbers in your list would include the taiwan neotech up-occ wires?

Also, just curious if you’ve ever tried the FiiO pure sterling silver cable? Not silver plated, but solid silver conductors.


----------



## hakuzen (Aug 7, 2019)

Slater said:


> Which numbers in your list would include the taiwan neotech up-occ wires?
> 
> Also, just curious if you’ve ever tried the FiiO pure sterling silver cable? Not silver plated, but solid silver conductors.


their name starts with "tw" and includes "upocc". iirc, numbers from 165 to 189 (except 168) are reserved for them. their description also includes material used (copper, spc, silver) and if they are litz. all upocc wires listed in my list are frozen, except upocc silver99%gold1% alloy.

that FiiO was in my cart, to be purchased in summer sales. but found the neotech AG-GD (upocc silver99%gold1% alloy, i heard some very good impressions of it) and decided to get this one as my first confirmed pure silver cable.
i can't be happier. FiiO cable looked nice (structure and description), although they don't say the gauge of the strands nor total. it's litz and has got a very interesting geometry, but you pay extra fee for the brand name, and i had tested some up-occ wires before and trusted them 100%.

edits: fixed FiiO cable material and made other corrections
FiiO LC-2.5/3.5/4.4D looks a very good chance to try a good pure silver cable. but cables 173/174 are also a very good choice. i've ordered a mix of 174 (pure silver) with 171 (copper) now, for bright combos, to improve lows boldness.
i'll might try FiiO one in the future to compare (or will wait to someone lends me it to be measured and compared).
judging from others impressions, guess the result sound of FiiO cable is similar to AG-GD relative to tonality perception (tighter more controlled impactful and detailed lows, better mids and highs perception, overall brighter result), useful for dark source+phones combos, classical music, jazz..
but i'd like to know if you get same deep sound stage as with AG-GD (the deepest i've tried).


----------



## Slater

hakuzen said:


> their name starts with "tw" and includes "upocc". iirc, numbers from 165 to 189 (except 168) are reserved for them.



So, looking through the ones you suggested, it seems like 165 is probably your favorite?

I wish it was available with straight mmcx plugs, but I can deal with angled plugs.

Is there anything I need to be aware of with 165? I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember a few people having trouble with the mmcx jacks? I just can’t remember exactly what that problem was (if there was even a problem at all).


----------



## hakuzen (Aug 7, 2019)

Slater said:


> So, looking through the ones you suggested, it seems like 165 is probably your favorite?
> 
> I wish it was available with straight mmcx plugs, but I can deal with angled plugs.
> 
> Is there anything I need to be aware of with 165? I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember a few people having trouble with the mmcx jacks? I just can’t remember exactly what that problem was (if there was even a problem at all).


nope, my favorites are mentioned in the measurements list (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/#post-14985614).
they are 173/174 (neotech up-occ pure silver 99% + gold 1% alloy), 170/171 (neotech frozen up-occ copper litz), and are located on top of my list of comments, pics, and links (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/#post-14985616). you can choose mmcx/2pins plugs, and they are straight.
then, 169 (neotech frozen up-occ copper litz + silver plated copper litz, mixed into each core), and then 165 (frozen up-occ copper no-litz); only curved mmcx available in these both. quality of the mmcx is good, but they are a bit wide, and rotate freely (some people hate this).


----------



## Astray

Hello, first time posting here so sorry for potentially asking a dumb question.

I was interested in making a cable using the (169) cable as my headphones require a 3.5mm TRS to dual separate 3.5mm TRS but I'm not quite sure where to begin as far as the plugs go. Do you have any recommendations?

I was thinking of either doing a 4 core or 8 core using the (169) wire. I already have the necessary skills and equipment for soldering, just need the wire, plugs, and separator.


----------



## hakuzen (Aug 8, 2019)

Astray said:


> Hello, first time posting here so sorry for potentially asking a dumb question.
> 
> I was interested in making a cable using the (169) cable as my headphones require a 3.5mm TRS to dual separate 3.5mm TRS but I'm not quite sure where to begin as far as the plugs go. Do you have any recommendations?
> 
> I was thinking of either doing a 4 core or 8 core using the (169) wire. I already have the necessary skills and equipment for soldering, just need the wire, plugs, and separator.



*wire* of cable 169:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007736919.html
(neotech frozen up-occ lizt copper+ litz silver plated copper mixed into each core)


Spoiler: wire 169 pics















i also found it at taobao, similar price, but it's more difficult to get it from abroad (using an agent, higher shipping costs, etc.)


you have tons of different plugs and separators in aliexpress and taobao. different materials, plating, type of contacts, and quality.


*3.5mm TRS jack*:

for this jack, you need to ensure that tail width will allow to fit the wires and strain relief you are going to use (calculate yours from number and outer diameter of the wires you are going to fit into this jack, plus strain relief)

for old style contacts (lids instead of concentric tubes), L plug, i like classic Neutrik NTP3RC-B (gold plated brass) due to its locking system. but you'd have to trim the tail hole, because it's in the thin side.


Spoiler: neutrik jack pic











in the same shop of the wire, you can find some top quality ones (beryllium copper, gold + rhodium plated) at good price; they are quite better quality than all usual chinese plugs, and comparable to high quality plugs from reputed brands (furukawa, bispa, eidolic, oyaide, alo audio, etc). if you are solder skilled, you can dare to use gold+rhodium plated ones; going safe, gold plated version are very good as well.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007579285.html  eagle/connoisseur gold+rhodium plated copper
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000054557682.html  eagle/connoisseur gold plated copper, various tail hole diameters
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007390699.html  rodhium plated and gold plated, sandalwood exclusive (pairs perfect with sandalwood separators)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001828856.html


Spoiler: eagle/connoisseur, carbon fiber / sandalwood jacks pics

























*2 * 3.5mm TRS plugs*:

these are going to be plugged into the headphones. tail hole and overall diameter should be lower than jack, because fewer cables inside and because you don't want to add weight to your headphones. bevel wished, to fit recessed sockets of headphones.

the headphones don't use ring contact of these plugs, in the case of 2 * 3.5/2.5mm plugs. positive signal goes to tip, and ground (single ended cable) or negative signal (balanced cable) goes to sleeve. so TS plugs would also serve.

in the same shop:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007736240.html  eagle/connoisseur (good quality)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33010216838.html  eidolic styled


Spoiler: slim 3.5mm TRS plugs pics















*separators*:

from the same shop, to pair with above plugs:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007402639.html  eagle carbon fiber
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007635623.html  eagle aluminum
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33003703981.html  sandalwood
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007716503.html  sandalwood
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007362504.html  sandalwood


Spoiler: separators pics

























however, if you want to avoid all the effort of braiding, soldering, etc., you can add the needed components to your cart, and ask for a quote in this shop for the ready made cable; this is what i do. the manufacturer is very skilled and you can find the final price is quite good compared with your time and effort.



another option is what i'm doing for my 2*3.5mm hifiman headphones lately.
i ask for mmcx/2pins ended cables, without molded ear guides, which can be used with my iems, and then i add these kind of adapters to be used with 2*3.5mm headphones:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=567550044376
in the pic they look TS plugs, but i received TRS 3.5mm plugs after saying that they are for hifiman headphones (anyway, TS plugs work perfectly, ring is not used)


Spoiler: mmcx/2pins to 2.5/3.5mm adapters pics


----------



## Astray

Just, wow. Thank you for such a detailed response. 

I'll let you know how everything goes!


----------



## Astray

hakuzen said:


> another option is what i'm doing for my 2*3.5mm hifiman headphones lately.
> i ask for mmcx/2pins ended cables, without molded ear guides, which can be used with my iems, and then i add these kind of adapters to be used with 2*3.5mm headphones:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=567550044376
> in the pic they look TS plugs, but i received TRS 3.5mm plugs after saying that they are for hifiman headphones (anyway, TS plugs work perfectly, ring is not used)
> ...



After looking into things, I didn't realize the cable was per meter so even making it myself is somewhere near $130 dollars using all of their components. I guess it's just really high quality cable.

They quoted me $150 to make the cable so I'll probably just go with that, but I am very interested in those adapters you have there. I can't find them on Aliexpress for a reasonable price and I have no idea how to order from taobao.

If I could get those adapters then I would get an MMCX cable so I could at least use the cable for something else down the road given its price. Any recommendations for getting that adapter?


----------



## hakuzen

Astray said:


> After looking into things, I didn't realize the cable was per meter so even making it myself is somewhere near $130 dollars using all of their components. I guess it's just really high quality cable.
> 
> They quoted me $150 to make the cable so I'll probably just go with that, but I am very interested in those adapters you have there. I can't find them on Aliexpress for a reasonable price and I have no idea how to order from taobao.
> 
> If I could get those adapters then I would get an MMCX cable so I could at least use the cable for something else down the road given its price. Any recommendations for getting that adapter?


yes, that's why i haven't dare to make iem cable by my own (i only DIY interconnect and adapters). the cost of getting a ready made top notch cable, compared to the price of components, is completely worth it.

yeah, adapters aren't cheap, but when using this segment of price cables, they are a must to add versatility and value to the cable. i own 23 pairs (mmcx/2pins/qdc/2.5mm/3.5mm adapters).
i only could find these adapters at a reasonable price at taobao. to buy there, using an agent is recommended. i use superbuy lately. because the product is so light, shipping costs will be very low.


----------



## CobraMan (Aug 15, 2019)

hte80 said:


> Have you had a chance to look at these yet (Linsoul HC-08 )?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32948963889.html
> 
> Are they worth buying? Or just pass and get the ISN ones? Seems like those were the some of the lowest resistance cables in your list.......Or am I using the data in totally the wrong way? haha


I am interested in and curious about the Linsoul cable(s) as well.  There is also the LSC-09 which is considerably more expensive vs the HC-08 - I have the same question about how these stack-up against the ISN cables and hakuzen's other top picks.

@hakuzen - any chance you have the Linsoul cables to compare or can provide some of your expertise here?  I am eagerly awaiting the DROP of the forthcoming JVC HA-FDX1 iem's and will certainly be looking to add a high quality balanced cable for use with my iBasso DX220.

Thank you and all the other folks in this thread that have shared so much great knowledge and given of your time to make this hobby better - I for one am truly appreciative so keep up the great work!

Best Regards,
Tim

P.S. - The LSC-09 looks an awful lot like cable 125 - just an observation...  What do you think?


----------



## hakuzen

CobraMan said:


> I am interested in and curious about the Linsoul cable(s) as well.  There is also the LSC-09 which is considerably more expensive vs the HC-08 - I have the same question about how these stack-up against the ISN cables and hakuzen's other top picks.
> 
> @hakuzen - any chance you have the Linsoul cables to compare or can provide some of your expertise here?  I am eagerly awaiting the DROP of the forthcoming JVC HA-FDX1 iem's and will certainly be looking to add a high quality balanced cable for use with my iBasso DX220.
> 
> ...


I'd also wish how they stand compared with my top picks. But after trying UP-OCC cables (top in my list), I'm afraid I won't have the chance, because I won't purchase cables which are probably lower quality than UP-OCC ones.
The only chance would be someone or Linsoul lends me one to try.

Good observation about LSC-09. We have discussed something about it in cables thread (or even in this thread, I don't remember it well). In the outside, it's as thick as 125, but you have to consider the fabric sleeve over the isolation sleeve, so total section of conductor and conductivity is lower than in 125. LSC-09 equivalent section is 24 AWG between silver plated copper and copper strands, while 125 is 20 AWG thicker copper strands, half resistance, double conductivity.
125 is tested, works very well, got the best bass rumble perception from all my stock. LSC-09 is a different animal, copper and spc mixed, and thinner.


----------



## CobraMan

hakuzen said:


> I'd also wish how they stand compared with my top picks. But after trying UP-OCC cables (top in my list), I'm afraid I won't have the chance, because I won't purchase cables which are probably lower quality than UP-OCC ones.
> The only chance would be someone or Linsoul lends me one to try.
> 
> Good observation about LSC-09. We have discussed something about it in cables thread (or even in this thread, I don't remember it well). In the outside, it's as thick as 125, but you have to consider the fabric sleeve over the isolation sleeve, so total section of conductor and conductivity is lower than in 125. LSC-09 equivalent section is 24 AWG between silver plated copper and copper strands, while 125 is 20 AWG thicker copper strands, half resistance, double conductivity.
> 125 is tested, works very well, got the best bass rumble perception from all my stock. LSC-09 is a different animal, copper and spc mixed, and thinner.


Thank you for your thoughtful inputs sir!

Sounds like the 125 cable is really the way to go (I love my bass...) so it is at the top of my list for sure even though the ISN S16 & H16 look stunning but would be heavier...

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## warriorpoet

@hakuzen I'm curious, have you run across any cables with this wire? Seems like a pretty good setup: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007736919.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.33.72564b27o3VMVJ


----------



## hakuzen

warriorpoet said:


> @hakuzen I'm curious, have you run across any cables with this wire? Seems like a pretty good setup: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007736919.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.33.72564b27o3VMVJ


Yes, i own cable 169, which uses that wire (4 cores). And ordered a custom cable using that wire to Electro acousti, 8 cores. Check my list, it is my favorite spc + copper wire. For pure silver + copper mix, cable 175.


----------



## warriorpoet (Aug 21, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> Yes, i own cable 169, which uses that wire (4 cores). And ordered a custom cable using that wire to Electro acousti, 8 cores. Check my list, it is my favorite spc + copper wire. For pure silver + copper mix, cable 175.


Awesome, thank you! I'm looking at maybe getting an 8 core with that or 4x/ea copper/ silver. Seems the blended UP-OCC Copper/ Silver is quite a bit less expensive. I think I'll go that direction.


----------



## hakuzen

the advantage of spc+copper mixed into each core (your linked wire), is you can choose a 4 cores cable having both materials in each signal.
when mixing different cores, if you want a 4 cores cable, you have to decide which material is used for positive signals and which for negative/ground. anyway, heard good impressions this way as well.

also take in account that if you buy 10m of wire (for 8 cores 1.15m cable) or 12m (for 1.35m cable) at electro acousti, you get a 20% off, so the difference of price between 4 and 8 cores is lower than expected.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Hi @hakuzen is this cable same as cable 052?

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/MYYYlwUY


----------



## hakuzen

Dani157 said:


> Hi @hakuzen is this cable same as cable 052?
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/MYYYlwUY


nop, it isn't. i've not tried the cable from your link, but it has nothing to do with 052 (neither wire or plugs)


----------



## warriorpoet

hakuzen said:


> the advantage of spc+copper mixed into each core (your linked wire), is you can choose a 4 cores cable having both materials in each signal.
> when mixing different cores, if you want a 4 cores cable, you have to decide which material is used for positive signals and which for negative/ground. anyway, heard good impressions this way as well.
> 
> also take in account that if you buy 10m of wire (for 8 cores 1.15m cable) or 12m (for 1.35m cable) at electro acousti, you get a 20% off, so the difference of price between 4 and 8 cores is lower than expected.


Thank you!

For me the advantage of the mixed cable is that it's quite a bit cheaper than the other alternatives, PLUS the discount, and, because it's Litz wire, there should be no appreciable difference in signal transmission.


----------



## hakuzen

warriorpoet said:


> Thank you!
> 
> For me the advantage of the mixed cable is that it's quite a bit cheaper than the other alternatives, PLUS the discount, and, because it's Litz wire, there should be no appreciable difference in signal transmission.


I agree 100%, and love that wire


----------



## superuser1

hakuzen said:


> I agree 100%, and love that wire


Are there any readily available cables with that wire?


----------



## hakuzen

superuser1 said:


> Are there any readily available cables with that wire?


Cable 169 of my list. But only MMCX plugs.
Electro acousti can do it very quickly, though; this is the wire: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007736919.html


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## subwoof3r

hakuzen said:


> if you want a 4 cores cable, you have to decide which material is used for positive signals and which for negative/ground.


Very interesting, always wanted to know about this 
So if I understand well in a mixed 4 core configuration :

if I solder silver on the positive and copper on negative = do I will benefit from the silver sound characteristic ?
if I solder copper on the positive and silver on negative = do I will benefit from the copper sound characteristic ?
I remember bought in the past (or dismantled) some mixed cables on which most of the time even 8 cores were not mixed properly (silver only for the ground, for exemple). Do you have good brands to recommend to avoid that maybe?
Many thanks in advance,
Cheers'


----------



## hakuzen

subwoof3r said:


> Very interesting, always wanted to know about this
> So if I understand well in a mixed 4 core configuration :
> 
> if I solder silver on the positive and copper on negative = do I will benefit from the silver sound characteristic ?
> ...


If the cable is balanced and used with balanced signals (positive and negative), I guess it doesn't mind, you'll get same mix of attributes.
If the signal is single-ended, I guess that the material which carries the positive signal will be the main one, because the other wire only carries ground. However, the material used at ground also matters. A friend tried silver wire in 4 cores, and then, silver for positive and thicker copper litz for ground, and he got longer bass notes with the latter cable.

I've tried only a few hybrid cables because each one I tried, 4 or 8 cores, was using different wire for each signal. None of them used mixed cores for every signal, I don't know the reason, I thought it should be true mix for every signal in single-ended 8 cores cables, and this is what I asked for when ordering my hybrid custom cables (175), and it's also the reason I like neotech hybrid wire, where spc and copper strands are mixed into each core.
Can't help, because I've not found or tested any true mixed hybrid 8 cores cable yet, other than 175 and cables using the wire of 169.


----------



## subwoof3r

hakuzen said:


> A friend tried silver wire in 4 cores, and then, silver for positive and thicker copper litz for ground, and he got longer bass notes with the latter cable.


Many thanks for your detailed answer, appreciated. Now I understand better 
Just to be sure, was your friend experimentating on single-ended, or balanced ?
Cheers'


----------



## hakuzen

subwoof3r said:


> Many thanks for your detailed answer, appreciated. Now I understand better
> Just to be sure, was your friend experimentating on single-ended, or balanced ?
> Cheers'


He was using single-ended. And I trust his ears and deep impressions 100%. That's why I think now that the ground wire also matters, contrarily to my first guesses.


----------



## colo13

Guys, i need a cable for tinaudio t2.
Can you recommend a good cable?
Thanks.


----------



## hakuzen

check for copper ones in my list. you could go directly to the list of cables below $40. copper ones which allow mmcx option


----------



## ephrank

Hello OP, can you measure Massdrop's 2.5mm to 4pin XLR adapter? Many thanks


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## hakuzen (Sep 7, 2019)

ephrank said:


> Hello OP, can you measure Massdrop's 2.5mm to 4pin XLR adapter? Many thanks


I don't own that adapter (massdrop/venture). I got these instead:

EST Japan socket + Neutrik XLR4 (longer than massdrop/venture)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=571836630995






and this (Music Heaven, shorter than both):
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=531398857717





they measured (L+, R+, L-, R-, in mOhms):

Neutrik + EST: 14, 13, 14, 13
Music Heaven: 13, 12, 12, 10 (slightly better)


----------



## bobbooo

Fantastic resource, thanks. Does anyone know of the lowest resistance, black, 2-pin cable with memory wire under $50?


----------



## hakuzen

bobbooo said:


> Fantastic resource, thanks. Does anyone know of the lowest resistance, black, 2-pin cable with memory wire under $50?


thanks.
from my list, probably these (check for links in my lists):
053, spc & black sleeve version https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32913860097.html
066. jcally 5n tpc 8c (black,cheap furt,MV)...................*249*/155/155..130/145/146..126/138/142..126/140/142..[29.2]
both are tin/alloy plated copper.
no memory wire, but molded ear guides


----------



## hakuzen

custom cable 175 is now in stock version: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000158772005.html (4/8 cores)


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## bobbooo (Sep 8, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> thanks.
> from my list, probably these (check for links in my lists):
> 053, spc & black sleeve version https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32913860097.html
> 066. jcally 5n tpc 8c (black,cheap furt,MV)...................*249*/155/155..130/145/146..126/138/142..126/140/142..[29.2]
> ...



Thanks for the quick response. I forgot to say, I need an unbalanced cable, and a pin diameter of 0.78mm. I think the ones you listed are 0.75mm as they're made for the KZ ZSN?


----------



## areek (Sep 11, 2019)

@hakuzen I am looking for a sub 50$ (can add a bit more if absolutely needed) mmcx to 2.5mm balanced cable for my Sony XBA N3AP. Prefereably light weight. Can you suggest me one? I went through your posts but seriously confused. Is getting the cheaper one a good option?
Should I get no. 1, 2 or 3? TIA.
1. 6N OCC + OCC Silver plating 26AWG Special Offer from Electro Acousti
2. GUCraftsman 5n OFC silver se535 se846
3. NICEHCK High-end 8 Core Single Crystal Copper Silver Plated Cable


----------



## hakuzen

bobbooo said:


> Thanks for the quick response. I forgot to say, I need an unbalanced cable, and a pin diameter of 0.78mm. I think the ones you listed are 0.75mm as they're made for the KZ ZSN?


I didn't have any issues with 0.75mm-0.78mm cables and IEMs. The only problem were FLC8s and their ~0.70mm sockets.
The important thing is if the type of 2pin plugs: flush or near flush, protruding, or encapsulated (ZSN type). Flush plugs work well with flush sockets, but also with ZSN type protruded sockets. Protruding plugs work well with recessed or flush sockets. Encapsulated (ZSN/QDC) plugs are only for protruding sockets (and you have to be careful, because the shape of the capsule, usually rounded, must be compatible withe the shape of the protruding sockets; for example, some TFZ IEMs use polygonal-rect protruding sockets which you'd have to sand off a bit to fit most ZSN/QDC rounded plugs).



areek said:


> @hakuzen I am looking for a sub 50$ (can add a bit more if absolutely needed) mmcx to 2.5mm balanced cable for my Sony XBA N3AP. Prefereably light weight. Can you suggest me one? I went through your posts but seriously confused. Is getting the cheaper one a good option?
> Should I get no. 1, 2 or 3? TIA.
> 1. 6N OCC + OCC Silver plating 26AWG Special Offer from Electro Acousti
> 2. GUCraftsman 5n OFC silver se535 se846
> 3. NICEHCK High-end 8 Core Single Crystal Copper Silver Plated Cable


I've only tried number 3, and it is a good all-rounder.
But I tried this cable yesterday: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33004747860.html, and despite of quite higher resistance, I've been impressed with the low background noise and big stage (specially noticed in dense passages) for the price, and with the extreme softness and suppleness (although the sleeve is delicate, weak; you have to take care of this).
If your cable number 1 uses this wire, plus similar silver plated wire, it could be a great value. Plugs are very good. But can't confirm it till I try that exact cable.

Anyway, if you spend only a little more, you can get the chance to try best neotech 7N UP-OCC wires, which suppose a jump respect any other wires.
4 cores version of cables 170 (copper), 173 (silver99%gold1%), 175 (170-173 mix), 177 (copper+spc mixed into each core), or 172 (copper no-litz).


----------



## areek

@hakuzen thanks a lot. I will check them out.


----------



## hakuzen (Sep 11, 2019)

added more measurements and pics of cable 171 (blue version, one of them with extra length, and with a custom 2.5-3.5mm adapter using same wire, which have been added to my list of adapters).

also added new cables, 192 (very affordable up-occ wire, great value), and 194, very special US frozen ribbon 7n occ spc wire.


----------



## hakuzen

new custom 3.5mm TRS male to 2.5mm TRRS female adapter cable.

*60*. tw 7n upocc litz 8c eagle cable............18.8...17.7...16.2...15.5
custom adapter from https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206
8cm (not counting plugs). best copper in my stock. neotech (taiwan) frozen 7n up-occ copper litz.
8 cores of 28awg, 25AWG/signal.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007631873.html
very high quality plugs (eagle, rhodium plated over gold plated beryllium copper):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007394708.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007901246.html


----------



## hakuzen

measurements and pics of blue version of cable 171 (one of them is customized: extra long, and 2.5-3.5mm adapter cable using same wire).
color changes with light.
*
171*. 8 cores version
copper color:......133..143..132..142 mΩ..[30.5g]..121..111 pF..[117cm]
blue color 2pin:...133..154..132..152 mΩ..[30.5g]..121..111 pF..[117cm]
blue color mmcx:.156..162..145..184 mΩ..[31.8g]..134..131 pF..[136cm] (extra length)



Spoiler: pics of cable 171, blue color


----------



## hakuzen

new cable 194

*194*. us cryo ribbon 7n occ spc 2x2c (silver,eagle,MV): 218..220..99..109 mΩ..[25.1g]..170..166 pF..[120cm]
core OD: 1.65mm. outer diameter: 4mm. length from splitter: 40cm.
7n occ silver plated copper, "double-layer freezing treatment". i think the wire is imported from the US.
don't know its structure, but it looks like there is an inner core, some kind of insulation, and then a layer of braided ribbon (flat wire) of spc. so 2 conductors inside.
don't know the sleeve material, but guess it's PVC or even teflon, because the wire is very stiff and springy.

resistance is amazing, very low, for such thickness (specially the ground/negative conductors).
i was expecting that highs perception would be improved by using flat spc wire. and they are, but the rumble of lows is also remarkable, unexpected from this frozen spc wire (maybe round copper inside?).
soundstage is wide, but up-occ wires provide deeper and bigger stage overall. background noise is also blacker with up-occ wires. good sound overall, but i still prefer up-occ wires.











links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000146981622.html


----------



## hakuzen

new cable 192.



Spoiler:  extra pics of cable 192



  
  
 



*192*. tw 6n upocc litz no-frozen 4c (copper,eagle,MV): 360 mΩ (average)..[23.7g 2pin / 24.3g mmcx]..98..93 pF..[149cm, extra length]
outer diameter: 5mm. length from splitter: 42cm.
6n up-occ copper litz, not frozen, 26awg. ultra soft and cheesy sheath (silicone? kind of PE?).
thin threads are twisted together creating thicker threads, which are twisted between them.
it's one of the softest and most flexible wire in my list. guess the cause is the sleeve. you have to take care of it. it melts instantaneously with fire, and looks weak and cheesy (noticed it when removing the litz of naked wire i bought).
resistance measurements of the cable are more proper of a 28awg wire than 26awg. but parallel capacitance measurements are pretty low.
i wasn't expecting much from this cheap wire, but it has impressed me. black background and big stage, like other higher quality up-occ wires. it's not as good as 7n frozen litz versions, but i much prefer it to other similar priced chinese wires. lows are good textured and keep good rumble, highs aren't swallowed like in other cheap copper cables.
together with ultra softness and suppleness and price, this cable becomes very interesting. great value.












wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007820233.html (very affordable)





links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33004747860.html


----------



## subwoof3r

hakuzen said:


> wire used:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007820233.html (very affordable)
> 
> 
> ...



I received 3 weeks ago these already braided 4 cores cable from an aliexpress seller by mistake (maybe Electro Acousti?) and despite my DIY skill, I wasn't able to make meld those wires, even at 380°C + using some liquid flux on the wires.
I have really no idea how the maker achieved this but I would be interested! 
Otherwise the wires are extremely soft and flexible, which I appreciate a lot, but for now the cable does not serve me.
Also, the 4 cores cames not perfectly well braided, but anyhow.


----------



## PMAismycity (Sep 12, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> measurements and pics of blue version of cable 171 (one of them is customized: extra long, and 2.5-3.5mm adapter cable using same wire).
> color changes with light.
> *
> 171*. 8 cores version
> ...






Is this cable the 8 cores version of this one? Then I'm kind of disappointed since they're not as pretty as in the picture. probably going to get a 4 core version of the cable 175 instead


----------



## hakuzen

subwoof3r said:


> I received 3 weeks ago these already braided 4 cores cable from an aliexpress seller by mistake (maybe Electro Acousti?) and despite my DIY skill, I wasn't able to make meld those wires, even at 380°C + using some liquid flux on the wires.
> I have really no idea how the maker achieved this but I would be interested!
> Otherwise the wires are extremely soft and flexible, which I appreciate a lot, but for now the cable does not serve me.
> Also, the 4 cores cames not perfectly well braided, but anyhow.


Yes, I noticed the shield is tough to remove, while the plastic sleeve melts easily.
I've not tried to remove the shield yet using a solder blob, but i'm afraid this is the cause of the higher resistance than expected: some shield is remaining.
I used a fire gun to remove it from the naked wire, in order to measure resistance of the wire. Then i scratched it a bit, and the measured resistance was very low!
So we'll have to be very patient if we want to remove the wire shield properly using a solder blob. High temperature, many passes, and maybe some careful scratch.



PMAismycity said:


> Is this cable the 8 cores version of this one? Then I'm kind of disappointed since they're not as pretty as in the picture. probably going to get a 4 core version of the cable 175 instead


Yes, pics are from a 8 cores blue version. My pics didn't catch well the true color (they were taken with my cell). I'm red and green color blind, but the cable looks a mix of brown/copper (wire) and blue (sleeve). The result is a kind of dark blueish purple. The color changes with light. I find it very original and nice. But I can't see it as blue as the pics in the shop (maybe with some specific light).


----------



## frank2908

Is there any larger diameter wire for full size headphones? Or this is good enough?


----------



## hakuzen

frank2908 said:


> Is there any larger diameter wire for full size headphones? Or this is good enough?


i'm using 8 cores UP-OCC 28AWG wires (around 25AWG per signal) with my planars (ananda, he400i).
You can get lower resistance with thicker wires, but the difference in sound between UP-OCC and the rest, made me choose these


----------



## RikudouGoku

Maybe I am wrong but you do not have this cable on your list: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...9.0&pvid=d9eac49e-dcf4-4f7b-934c-fca5c90b4bda


----------



## hakuzen (Sep 16, 2019)

RikudouGoku said:


> Maybe I am wrong but you do not have this cable on your list: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...9.0&pvid=d9eac49e-dcf4-4f7b-934c-fca5c90b4bda


yup, not in my list yet, but want it. it could be a great hybrid one in that very affordable segment of price, once verified the good quality of copper in cable 192


----------



## 1Q84

RikudouGoku said:


> Maybe I am wrong but you do not have this cable on your list: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...9.0&pvid=d9eac49e-dcf4-4f7b-934c-fca5c90b4bda


How many cores are this? Seems not mentioned in the product description. Thanks


----------



## RikudouGoku

1Q84 said:


> How many cores are this? Seems not mentioned in the product description. Thanks


From the pictures I can see that It is most likely a 4 core cable


----------



## 1Q84 (Sep 16, 2019)

RikudouGoku said:


> From the pictures I can see that It is most likely a 4 core cable


Thanks!


hakuzen said:


> If the cable is balanced and used with balanced signals (positive and negative), I guess it doesn't mind, you'll get same mix of attributes.
> If the signal is single-ended, I guess that the material which carries the positive signal will be the main one, because the other wire only carries ground. However, the material used at ground also matters. A friend tried silver wire in 4 cores, and then, silver for positive and thicker copper litz for ground, and he got longer bass notes with the latter cable.
> 
> I've tried only a few hybrid cables because each one I tried, 4 or 8 cores, was using different wire for each signal. None of them used mixed cores for every signal, I don't know the reason, I thought it should be true mix for every signal in single-ended 8 cores cables, and this is what I asked for when ordering my hybrid custom cables (175), and it's also the reason I like neotech hybrid wire, where spc and copper strands are mixed into each core.
> Can't help, because I've not found or tested any true mixed hybrid 8 cores cable yet, other than 175 and cables using the wire of 169.



Does the positive and ground on single ended apply for the 4 core version of the wire 175? Or it doesn't because of the stranding technique used by electro acousti? Thanks!


----------



## hakuzen

1Q84 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Does the positive and ground on single ended apply for the 4 core version of the wire 175? Or it doesn't because of the stranding technique used by electro acousti? Thanks!


yes, it applies to 175. 4 cores, you have to use one material for positive, another material for negative(balanced)/ground(single-ended).
anyways, cable 175, 4 or 8 cores, will be your best one surely


----------



## MadDane (Sep 16, 2019)

Sorry, wrong thread moved to the
*Low end. Cheap. Generic. Otherwise bang for buck cable thread!*
.


----------



## Slater

MadDane said:


> Sorry, wrong thread moved to the
> *Low end. Cheap. Generic. Otherwise bang for buck cable thread!*
> .



Speaking of which, that thread is slowly turning into $100-$200 cables lol. Which is not low end, cheap, or generic


----------



## 1Q84

hakuzen said:


> yes, it applies to 175. 4 cores, you have to use one material for positive, another material for negative(balanced)/ground(single-ended).
> anyways, cable 175, 4 or 8 cores, will be your best one surely


So does this mean that the 8 cores is more "flexible" soundwise since with the 4 core you have a tendency to have more bass or treble depending on which one is the positive and the ground, while the 8 core is more balanced, right? Its because I only use single ended most of the time for portability. Thanks!


----------



## hakuzen (Sep 18, 2019)

Slater said:


> Speaking of which, that thread is slowly turning into $100-$200 cables lol. Which is not low end, cheap, or generic


"otherwise bang for buck cable"
if price of a typical priced >$300 cable in boutique shop, is found around $150, it's bang for buck. it doesn't hurt



1Q84 said:


> So does this mean that the 8 cores is more "flexible" soundwise since with the 4 core you have a tendency to have more bass or treble depending on which one is the positive and the ground, while the 8 core is more balanced, right? Its because I only use single ended most of the time for portability. Thanks!


the 8 cores cable uses both materials for every contact/signal, so fully mixed.
if you use 4 cores, and single-ended jack, i guess the wire used in positive would be the main wire. but a head-fier mixed AuAg wire (positive) with cardas 23awg copper (ground, single-ended), and he noticed a big difference (larger bass notes) compared to only AuAg wire


----------



## superuser1

POV


----------



## warriorpoet (Sep 18, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> "otherwise bang for buck cable"
> if price of a typical priced >$300 cable in boutique shop, is found around $150, it's bang for buck. it doesn't hurt
> 
> 
> ...


Your first point is absolutely well taken. I get performance out of my Gu.Craftsman and the incredibly built Electro Acousti cables that rivals any high $ cable. They're PHENOMENAL bargains.

On your second point, we're talking about electrical circuits here, so conductivity will be an average of positive and negative signals. That means it's accurate to say the performance of a mixed 4 core is the rough average of both.


----------



## hakuzen

warriorpoet said:


> Your first point is absolutely well taken. I get performance out of my Gu.Craftsman and the incredibly built Electro Acousti cables that rivals any high $ cable. They're PHENOMENAL bargains.
> 
> On your second point, we're talking about electrical circuits here, so conductivity will be an average of positive and negative signals. That means it's accurate to say the performance of a mixed 4 core is the rough average of both.


in the case of balanced jack (plugged in a balanced in output) i guess the result is very similar, if not identical, to fully mixed (for every contact) 8 cores wire.
in the case of single-ended output, only positive signal carries the sound (low, mids, and high frequencies), so i guess that the result could be a bit different. i haven't checked this, but i know a head-fier who has stated that material which carries ground signal also matters, and the effect is very considerable.


----------



## Slater (Sep 19, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> "otherwise bang for buck cable"
> if price of a typical priced >$300 cable in boutique shop, is found around $150, it's bang for buck. it doesn't hurt



Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing.

I was only pointing out that the journey started with $5-$10 KZ and very entry level cables, and over the course of 1-2 years moved up to nicer and nicer and more expensive and more expensive cables.

It was the natural progression of things though. More expensive cables are built nicer, have better quality copper, better plugs, better solder joints, etc. And as you pointed out, they offer a lot of bang for the buck.

My original comment was meant as nothing more than simply an observation. No offense was intended


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing.
> 
> I was only pointing out that the journey started with $5-$10 KZ and very entry level cables, and over the course of 1-2 years movies up to nicer and more expensive cables.
> 
> ...


Your observation has made me stop for a while and take a look at my journey. I was a non-believer in cables and started with $5-$10 cables, who could realize I'd end trying $200 cables? not me, lol.
I also started with $5 kz iems, xiaomi piston 3, vivo xe800.. and ended with moondrop blessing and pointing to qdc anole vx.. from takstar pro 80 to hifiman ananda, from topping nx1a to thx 789..
Once you taste better sound quality, it's difficult to stop, it's natural progression of things, like you say.. and natural progression of wallet run out as well.


----------



## superuser1

hakuzen said:


> Your observation has made me stop for a while and take a look at my journey. I was a non-believer in cables and started with $5-$10 cables, who could realize I'd end trying $200 cables? not me, lol.
> I also started with $5 kz iems, xiaomi piston 3, vivo xe800.. and ended with moondrop blessing and pointing to qdc anole vx.. from takstar pro 80 to hifiman ananda, from topping nx1a to thx 789..
> Once you taste better sound quality, it's difficult to stop, it's natural progression of things, like you say.. and natural progression of wallet run out as well.


This has happened with most of us... alone vx is still far


----------



## hakuzen

Added measurements of standard length cables 175 (easier to compare with other cables). 2.5mm jack, MMCX, and 4.4mm jack + MMCX.
*
175*. tw upocc AgAu+copper litz 8c (silv/cop,eagle,MV):
195/188/166..163/176/167..161/161/166..173/186/163 mΩ..[35.7/33.7/35g]..137/144/160..138/137/145 pF..[137/140/140cm]
139/138..142/137..136/134..144/134 mΩ..[28/32.4g]..118/128-119/136 pF..[113cm] 2.5/4.4mm



Added new custom 2.5mm TRRS balanced to 3.5mm TRS single-ended, and to 4.4mm TRRRS balanced, adapter cables, from electro acousti store (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206).
They can be found at my list of jack adapters: jack adapters (measurements, pics, and links)
*
62*. tw upocc AgAu+copper litz 8c eagle.......................18.6/20.1...17.4/17.8...17.7/15.8...16.2/14.3
......tw upocc AgAu+copper litz 8c eagle 2.5-4.4...........18.2/18.4...16.9/17...15.5/19.1...15.4/17
custom adapter from https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206, using same wires than cable 175.
7.5cm (not counting plugs). neotech (taiwan) up-occ silver 99%+ gold 1% alloy, and frozen 7n up-occ copper litz (best silver and copper wires in my stock, imo).
8 cores of 28awg, 25AWG/signal.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046978735.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008255130.html
very high quality plugs (eagle, rhodium plated over gold plated beryllium copper):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007394708.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007901246.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007708309.html


----------



## progdvd (Sep 23, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> custom cable 175 is now in stock version: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000158772005.html (4/8 cores)



Please, what's the difference between 4 and 8 core Soundwise?


----------



## hakuzen

progdvd said:


> Please, what's the difference between 4 and 8 core Soundwise?


The main difference between 4 and 8 identical cores is resistance.
You get near half resistance (double conductivity) with 8 cores. Total section of that cable per signal is 28AWG (4 cores) and 25AWG (8 cores). 135mΩ (8 cores) vs 255mΩ (8 cores).
Guess there is no need to explain why lower resistance is much preferable (read the introduction at my list).
You should always keep output impedance (source + cable) the lowest possible as a norm, for electrical damping, efficiency and lower attenuation, etc.
It can be very important when dealing with IEMs equipped with balanced armatures, and/or low impedance. Of course, if your source output impedance is much higher than the difference of resistance between cables, 4 vs 8 cores becomes irrelevant for this purpose.

Other than this, you shouldn't notice much sound difference. I think you preserve better fuller bass with 8 cores version, but it could be bias; very slight difference, anyway.

Another thing to consider in this case, is you can mix both wire materials for each contact/signal (full mix) in 8 cores version. While in 4 cores version, positive signals will use one material, and negative (balanced) or ground (single-ended) the other. I don't think there will be audible differences between 8 cores and 4 cores version, if balanced. Guess differences when single-ended should be more noticeable, but haven't tested this yet.

I'd say, if you decide to invest in such quality cable, go for 8 cores if you can afford it, and forget future doubts. You'll get top notch cable for long, ultra versatile thanks to lower resistance, best wires combination, and usability with many IEMs and headphones thanks to adapters.
But you also can decide to invest less money with 4 cores version. It will be surely your best cable anyways, and you'll get the pleasure to taste this excellent cable.


----------



## progdvd

hakuzen said:


> The main difference between 4 and 8 identical cores is resistance.
> You get near half resistance (double conductivity) with 8 cores. Total section of that cable per signal is 28AWG (4 cores) and 25AWG (8 cores). 135mΩ (8 cores) vs 255mΩ (8 cores).
> Guess there is no need to explain why lower resistance is much preferable (read the introduction at my list).
> You should always keep output impedance (source + cable) the lowest possible as a norm, for electrical damping, efficiency and lower attenuation, etc.
> ...



Thank you for your time and effort!!! This is incredible I appreciate it very much!!! 
Just like you said to awoid future what ifs, I'll definitely take 8 core one and be done with it, but I'll have to gather some funds first, for it and a nice DAP as well. 
Cheers


----------



## subwoof3r (Oct 7, 2019)

Today I received my *OKCSC* TRRS to TRS adapter, that I bought *HERE*
Well made, nice quality and build for the price especially, highly recommended
Thanks for the discover  it will officially replace my old FiiO L26 (which was malfunctionning sometimes)


----------



## hakuzen

added dd adapter to the list. the ribbon connection ruins the great adapter it could be.

*12*. dd mini angled...........................52.4...39.4...39.4...39.9
......dd mini angled 2.5-4.4...............52.5...44.9...51.8...68.3
the 2.5mm socket is like those used into sources' cases, so expect longer durability (time will tell).
but the conductivity is very poor. the culprit is the flexible gold plated ribbon/pcb used to connect the contacts (thin and not great material probably).
links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000164103882.html


----------



## hakuzen

electro acousti has stocked 4.4mm balanced female to 3.5mm single-ended male adapter, and 4.4mm balanced female to 2.5mm balanced male adapter.
guess you can customize the wire to match your cable (in case it uses up-occ wire).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000231198864.html





i've not found such quality wired adapter (plugs and wire) at taobao.
the nearest i found is this adapter, which uses up-occ wire (but worse than the wire of electro acousti adapter) and it's more expensive (near double the price):
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=574805203213


----------



## andersos

Where can I buy the "*06*. oyaide styled angled"
adapter?


----------



## castleofargh

hakuzen said:


> added dd adapter to the list. the ribbon connection ruins the great adapter it could be.
> 
> *12*. dd mini angled...........................52.4...39.4...39.4...39.9
> ......dd mini angled 2.5-4.4...............52.5...44.9...51.8...68.3
> ...


I don't know for the expensive and latest models, but many Sony DAPs for years have used similar ribbon paths to link the plug to the circuit. of course they solved the relatively poor conductivity with a clever move: 
who cares about a few mohms when you have 4ohm at the output. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



joke aside, in those DAPs, the ribbons allow for the plug to be tortured without acting as a lever on the soldered contacts, which is actually a brilliant move. but on this plug... I have to ask why? I guess the answer is the same as why the casing is transparent. because it looks kind of cool.


----------



## Slater

castleofargh said:


> I don't know for the expensive and latest models, but many Sony DAPs for years have used similar ribbon paths to link the plug to the circuit. of course they solved the relatively poor conductivity with a clever move:
> who cares about a few mohms when you have 4ohm at the output.
> 
> 
> ...



Is that why the iPods always had the audio jack attached as a ribbon connection? To maximize the longevity/reliability of the jack?


----------



## hakuzen

andersos said:


> Where can I buy the "*06*. oyaide styled angled"
> adapter?


https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=548741571169
and probably at other shops at taobao



castleofargh said:


> I don't know for the expensive and latest models, but many Sony DAPs for years have used similar ribbon paths to link the plug to the circuit. of course they solved the relatively poor conductivity with a clever move:
> who cares about a few mohms when you have 4ohm at the output.
> 
> 
> ...





Slater said:


> Is that why the iPods always had the audio jack attached as a ribbon connection? To maximize the longevity/reliability of the jack?


11ohm output impedance at iPod, so guess it's the same case than Sony old DAPs.

Yea, it's kind of stupid move to use that ribbon for a rigid short adapter. Apart of looking cool, the ribbon can allow using an smaller case. I'd had preferred an slightly bigger case and good quality short wires.


----------



## SciOC

So... hi cable afficianados, I'm just getting into the cable game (randomly decided to sit down with my cheapo DMM and measure most of my cables).  I'm not measuring nearly the resolution you guys are, but most of my raw measurements (not taking into account lead resistance, etc) range from .4 ohms for my pure silver cable to 1.4 ohms for the stock kz zsx cable.

I'm looking at getting a better setup, but one thing I have a big problem with is my shaky hands (OCD medication...).  Any recommendations for some desk clamps to help steady the cables/leads and a reasonably priced multi meter?  I wandered around the home improvement store yesterday looking for a table or clamp system but found nothing suitable...  I hesitate to get a multimeter with alligator clamps given it would be hard to measure each ring on a 2.5mm cable....  But I would like to be measuring better than .1 ohm resolution of my current DMM.

Any cables out there that could make me a believer that say, one copper cable is better than another copper cable based on anything other than resistance and material type?

Right now I'm fairly agnostic, but do hear differences going from Copper to SPC to silver for example.  But all my copper really sounds similar even if they're measuring slightly better or worse....  Copper is my go to right now, even though overall my copper measured generally worse than my silver and SPC cables....


----------



## bobbooo (Oct 26, 2019)

SciOC said:


> Any cables out there that could make me a believer that say, one copper cable is better than another copper cable based on anything other than resistance and material type?



No - nobody has ever shown any evidence, in the form of blind ABX tests (pretty much the only scientifically and statistically valid tests in this case) that anything other than resistance (even material type) has any audible effect with cables. (Conversely, plenty of ABX tests have shown attributes other than resistance have in fact no audible affect.) Just get a cable  with reasonably low resistance and price and you'll be fine. Of course, any other attributes like weight, softness, flexibility, and aesthetics are up to personal taste. The only things that could make you a believer in anything other than resistance having an audible affect are placebo and unconscious expectation bias.


----------



## hakuzen

SciOC said:


> So... hi cable afficianados, I'm just getting into the cable game (randomly decided to sit down with my cheapo DMM and measure most of my cables).  I'm not measuring nearly the resolution you guys are, but most of my raw measurements (not taking into account lead resistance, etc) range from .4 ohms for my pure silver cable to 1.4 ohms for the stock kz zsx cable.
> 
> I'm looking at getting a better setup, but one thing I have a big problem with is my shaky hands (OCD medication...).  Any recommendations for some desk clamps to help steady the cables/leads and a reasonably priced multi meter?  I wandered around the home improvement store yesterday looking for a table or clamp system but found nothing suitable...  I hesitate to get a multimeter with alligator clamps given it would be hard to measure each ring on a 2.5mm cable....  But I would like to be measuring better than .1 ohm resolution of my current DMM.
> 
> ...


yes, "but do hear differences going from Copper to SPC to silver for example". i was in the same boat, skeptic when started to try cables. and also hear clear differences between different materials, even comparing different copper wires; i'll do an ABX soon, controlled by my brother, audio engineer and non-believer in cables; hope the result will be enough to shut up trolls.
get any up-occ cable, and compare it to your other cables, and you'll notice the difference. my actual fav cable is 175 in my list. please read my first posts in this thread.

for resistance measurements (mΩ), i use Vapcell YR1030 (https://lygte-info.dk/review/InternalResistanceMeterYR1030 UK.html , around $38), because of its resolution (~1mΩ) and because it uses 4 terminal leads (alligator clamps or probes, like showed at https://lygte-info.dk/review/InternalResistanceMeterYR1035 UK.html ); this is very comfortable: you don't have to subtract leads resistance, and measurements are more stable.
the width of the alligators is similar to the width of the ring in 2.5mm plugs, so it is comfortable (i also own shaky hands).


----------



## SciOC

hakuzen said:


> yes, "but do hear differences going from Copper to SPC to silver for example". i was in the same boat, skeptic when started to try cables. and also hear clear differences between different materials, even comparing different copper wires; i'll do an ABX soon, controlled by my brother, audio engineer and non-believer in cables; hope the result will be enough to shut up trolls.
> get any up-occ cable, and compare it to your other cables, and you'll notice the difference. my actual fav cable is 175 in my list. please read my first posts in this thread.
> 
> for resistance measurements (mΩ), i use Vapcell YR1030 (https://lygte-info.dk/review/InternalResistanceMeterYR1030 UK.html , around $38), because of its resolution (~1mΩ) and because it uses 4 terminal leads (alligator clamps or probes, like showed at https://lygte-info.dk/review/InternalResistanceMeterYR1035 UK.html ); this is very comfortable: you don't have to subtract leads resistance, and measurements are more stable.
> the width of the alligators is similar to the width of the ring in 2.5mm plugs, so it is comfortable (i also own shaky hands).


Excellent!  I look forward to using you as a resource, if you'll let me, as I get started into this.

I just got 3 new pairs of iems and one 8 core nicehck Cooper in the mail.  For $9.46 that 8 core cable measures as good as the rest of my cables at .5 ohms minus the lead resistance.  Definitely will be buying more of those...  The stock cable for the Shuoer Tape measures the same, mighty nice for a stock cable on a $130 IEM.


----------



## SciOC

bobbooo said:


> No - nobody has ever shown any evidence, in the form of blind ABX tests (the only scientifically and statistically valid tests in this case) that anything other than resistance (even material type) has any audible effect with cables. (Conversely, plenty of ABX tests have shown attributes other than resistance have in fact no audible affect.) Just get a cable  with reasonably low resistance and price and you'll be fine. Of course, any other attributes like weight, softness, flexibility, and aesthetics are up to personal taste. The only things that could make you a believer in anything other than resistance having an audible affect are placebo and unconscious expectation bias.


Funny you mention that.  This first 2.5mm balanced cable I ordered was a SPC no name brand.  I always thought it was extremely bass light by virtue of SPC.  I just measured it, and it was my worst aftermarket cable at 1.2 ohms (I have somewhere between. 2-.3 ohm lead resistance).  

So my experience with one cable has essentially molded my views in many ways and now I'm questioning my assumptions even more since measuring it....


----------



## castleofargh

SciOC said:


> Funny you mention that.  This first 2.5mm balanced cable I ordered was a SPC no name brand.  I always thought it was extremely bass light by virtue of SPC.  I just measured it, and it was my worst aftermarket cable at 1.2 ohms (I have somewhere between. 2-.3 ohm lead resistance).
> 
> So my experience with one cable has essentially molded my views in many ways and now I'm questioning my assumptions even more since measuring it....


and we know that relying on an anecdote is the best way to always be right about a general idea.
first, different situations lead to different results. even the most ignorant guy will guess that if I used an IEM cable to carry high voltage to the next town, it wouldn't last long. it's not too hard to get that extremely different cases require different cables. but jumping from that to thinking that we're going to change our musical experience entirely by replacing a wire, there is room for a little caution. if you want lower impedance, you'll want plugs that are tight, bigger contact surfaces, and of course larger wires(or several smaller ones in parallel). there is no secret, if you give the current twice the room, you'll halve the resistance(assuming the limit isn't set somewhere else at the plug). but who wants to carry some big fat IEM cable with giant banana plugs at both ends? not me. and there is the entire mystery of IEM cables, solved. like with absolutely anything else, the best option is a compromise between many variables and not some dumb push for one variable at any price no matter the side effects for the other variables
if impedance/resistance is you new obsession, you might care to know that in most cases a balanced setup will about double the impedance of the amp section. or that for the IEM, the source's impedance is the amp output+the cable, so going crazy over cables should motivate even people obsessed(probably for the wrong reasons) to at least try to be consistent and care about the amp's output too. when I see people happy to save 0.2ohm on a silver cable but they also go balanced and add a full ohm that way, they might want to rethink their understanding of the situation. 



hakuzen said:


> yes, "but do hear differences going from Copper to SPC to silver for example". i was in the same boat, skeptic when started to try cables. and also hear clear differences between different materials, even comparing different copper wires; i'll do an ABX soon, controlled by my brother, audio engineer and non-believer in cables; hope the result will be enough to shut up trolls.
> get any up-occ cable, and compare it to your other cables, and you'll notice the difference. my actual fav cable is 175 in my list. please read my first posts in this thread.
> 
> for resistance measurements (mΩ), i use Vapcell YR1030 (https://lygte-info.dk/review/InternalResistanceMeterYR1030 UK.html , around $38), because of its resolution (~1mΩ) and because it uses 4 terminal leads (alligator clamps or probes, like showed at https://lygte-info.dk/review/InternalResistanceMeterYR1035 UK.html ); this is very comfortable: you don't have to subtract leads resistance, and measurements are more stable.
> the width of the alligators is similar to the width of the ring in 2.5mm plugs, so it is comfortable (i also own shaky hands).



believers and non believers are both doing it wrong. we shouldn't treat electricity as a gut feeling, an opinion, or a belief. if electrons act so consistently and predictably that some dude once seriously wondered if all the electrons in the universe weren't in fact the same single electron moving through space and time, I believe we can bother treating electrical signals as factual objective events instead of subjective ideas. that in turn, means actually testing stuff before saying that we know something about it. I get how annoying it is to even have those conversations, and people who keep replying "no you didn't" when you tell them you experienced something. it pisses me off too because of course I've experienced IEM cables making an audible difference on occasion over the years. the right conclusion to an empty claim is not the opposite empty claim and people weren't with us when we experienced what we did(or thought we did). but that alone never makes it ok to draw objective conclusions from sighted impressions. as long as audiophiles will act like the total sum of requirements to study something objectively is:
-put IEM on
-press play
-what do I feel?

everybody who has half a clue will treat them like overconfident fools. rightfully so. pride and unwarranted self confidence do not replace proper experimentation. never did, never will. if people really cared about the truth and sharing factual information, well first they wouldn't make 3 empty claims per post, but they would pay attention to saying that they feel(whatever it is they subjectively experienced). and only start talking about how a cable made an audible change once they have properly tested that in a controlled test. in a perfect world audiophile would all know, understand and respect that distinction, and our hobby wouldn't be a running gag for everybody else. it would be quite simple to do things right when we think about it. no need to properly test everything, so long as we don't talk like we already did.



bobbooo said:


> No - nobody has ever shown any evidence, in the form of blind ABX tests (the only scientifically and statistically valid tests in this case) that anything other than resistance (even material type) has any audible effect with cables. (Conversely, plenty of ABX tests have shown attributes other than resistance have in fact no audible affect.) Just get a cable  with reasonably low resistance and price and you'll be fine. Of course, any other attributes like weight, softness, flexibility, and aesthetics are up to personal taste. The only things that could make you a believer in anything other than resistance having an audible affect are placebo and unconscious expectation bias.


first, you might have a real hard time finding even 10 proper abx tests from different people about IEM cables. so not finding one doesn't really demonstrate anything.
second, I would find this less objectionable if you had said impedance instead of resistance. because I'm sure we can manufacture some conditions stupid enough to have audible frequency roll off from capacitance. and perhaps some really absurd(so it's audible) amount of crosstalk sometimes.
but yes, impedance, with a big part being resistance, is probably the main cause for audible changes caused by IEM cables. like making one slightly louder, or leading to a little change in the IEM's FR. neither being much of anything in term of objective improvement, so that alone makes IMO the search for the perfect cable a lot less interesting as i already use a very nice EQ and volume control for those tasks. but as always, there is some room between making sure we avoid very crappy cables, and going crazy over every details. I don't really care about cables, but I'm confident that I test mine more strictly than most people passionate about their audio cables will ever do. so maybe I'm the one obsessed with cables? ^_^


----------



## superuser1

Here we go again... *ad nauseam*


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 26, 2019)

castleofargh said:


> believers and non believers are both doing it wrong. we shouldn't treat electricity as a gut feeling, an opinion, or a belief. if electrons act so consistently and predictably that some dude once seriously wondered if all the electrons in the universe weren't in fact the same single electron moving through space and time, I believe we can bother treating electrical signals as factual objective events instead of subjective ideas. that in turn, means actually testing stuff before saying that we know something about it. I get how annoying it is to even have those conversations, and people who keep replying "no you didn't" when you tell them you experienced something. it pisses me off too because of course I've experienced IEM cables making an audible difference on occasion over the years. the right conclusion to an empty claim is not the opposite empty claim and people weren't with us when we experienced what we did(or thought we did). but that alone never makes it ok to draw objective conclusions from sighted impressions. as long as audiophiles will act like the total sum of requirements to study something objectively is:
> -put IEM on
> -press play
> -what do I feel?
> ...


yea, that's why i started measuring resistance, and then capacitance. i'm also to do some frequency response, distortion, crosstalk, etc. measurements. but i feel there is something more which i'm not able to measure. for example, sound stage or which parts of the conductor are mostly used depending of frequencies, topology, and other near currents and dielectric used (maybe i can do some tests with different frequencies tones). there might be very tiny differences which are amplified by our brain / perception process.
because i can notice the difference of sound between a pure silver and a ofc copper cable, even though they measure the same in my limited measurements.
that's why i want to make the blind test. many people respect this method, although statistics prove nothing to me either. i'll always stay in skeptic but open minded and in subjective side.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 26, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> yea, that's why i started measuring resistance, and then capacitance. i'm also to do some frequency response, distortion, crosstalk, etc. measurements. but i feel there is something more which i'm not able to measure. for example, which parts of the conductor are mostly used depending of frequencies and other near currents (maybe i can do some tests with different frequencies tones). there might be very tiny differences which are amplified by our brain / perception process.
> because i can notice the difference of sound between a pure silver and a ofc copper cable, even though they measure the same in my limited measurements.
> that's why i want to make the blind test. many people respect this method, although statistics prove nothing to me either. i'll always stay in skeptic but open minded and subjective side.


I'm kinda interested in trying out OCC copper.  Any experience based on OCC copper wires you can share?  Any information on OCC, and also the reliability of weather cables are truly OCC as they claim on certain cables over others, and also brands?


As far as measurement of resistance, there will be issue of making good contact with leads or alligator clips.  The contact area size or how much contact the measuring leads are making will vary the resistance value.  I don't think multimeters are reliable for making such minute resistance measurements.  What I'm interested is a comparison between a undoubtedly reliable system compared to multi-meters.  That would be interesting.

So contact is a pretty important aspect of cables.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 26, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> I'm kinda interested in trying out OCC copper.  Any experience based on OCC copper wires you can share?  Any information on OCC, and also the reliability of weather cables are truly OCC as they claim on certain cables over others, and also brands?
> 
> 
> As far as measurement of resistance, there will be issue of making good contact with leads or alligator clips.  The contact area size or how much contact the measuring leads are making will vary the resistance value.  I don't think multimeters are reliable for making such minute resistance measurements.  What I'm interested is a comparison between a undoubtedly reliable system compared to multi-meters.  That would be interesting.
> ...


???
i use a battery resistance meter, four poles alligator clamps. check this review, made by a reputed and excellent electric/electronic reviewer.
https://lygte-info.dk/review/InternalResistanceMeterYR1030 UK.html
my resistance measurements are stable and very accurate (~1mOhm precision). do you really need more accuracy?

to answer your questions, please read all my first posts in this thread


----------



## castleofargh

hakuzen said:


> yea, that's why i started measuring resistance, and then capacitance. i'm also to do some frequency response, distortion, crosstalk, etc. measurements. but i feel there is something more which i'm not able to measure. for example, sound stage or which parts of the conductor are mostly used depending of frequencies, topology, and other near currents and dielectric used (maybe i can do some tests with different frequencies tones). there might be very tiny differences which are amplified by our brain / perception process.
> because i can notice the difference of sound between a pure silver and a ofc copper cable, even though they measure the same in my limited measurements.
> that's why i want to make the blind test. many people respect this method, although statistics prove nothing to me either. i'll always stay in skeptic but open minded and in subjective side.


 when I really feel like I'm getting a difference, I record music under conditions where I think I notice it(same rig and all). and then I do a blind test of the tracks(you have to properly time align them in audacity or some DAW, or it's meaningless). if I can still get the difference, then the difference is really in the sound. that aspect is out of the way and the only unknown is why. 
the problem comes when I can't tell the difference in the recorded music. because the chances for me just imagining things are now getting really big, but at the same time, the possibility that the audible differences have been masked by something else isn't zero. it's tiny, but not zero. and that's annoying.


anecdote time: I got a few cables that really made me go crazy, I couldn't measure anything special yet there was no way they were sounding the same for me.  including one where I finally noticed(completely by accident!!) that I was getting significantly different measurements when it was on the table as opposed to when it was along my body. somehow that made a clear difference on that one cable.


----------



## superuser1

I must stupidly add... imagination is what makes us human.. or we would be following unimaginative and uninspired existences as robots. Maybe I'm stupider than i thought


----------



## fokta

179 (165 8c) :
160, 200, 110, 130 mOhm...

hehehe...


----------



## superuser1

fokta said:


> 179 (165 8c) :
> 160, 200, 110, 130 mOhm...
> 
> hehehe...


I see you're having fun with the measurements... try the DD adapters when you have the time please.


----------



## fokta

superuser1 said:


> I see you're having fun with the measurements... try the DD adapters when you have the time please.


Already did... 
my result is worse then Hakuzen... my result is 80 to 110 mOhm just for 3.5 to 2.5 mm

and even Dunu result is the same.. 
Will try to get better clamp


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 27, 2019)

fokta said:


> 179 (165 8c) :
> 160, 200, 110, 130 mOhm...
> 
> hehehe...


i don't understand your notes.. does first raw contain the raw measurements? how do you obtain the final results from them?
edit:
oh, i got it. 1.62 ohm is your leads resistance. lower resistance is desired. i'll search for links to better wires and alligators
edit2:
i like these (the best ones i've tried, but they are not cheap):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32798647058.html (25cm of 13awg wire ended with 4mm retractile copper bananas)
+
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32324041303.html (copper alligators with 4mm socket for banana)
total resistance of the combo: 5 mOhm.
but i bought these because i'm using them for other measurements as well.
they cost more than your zt109, so guess it is not a good idea.


----------



## hakuzen

castleofargh said:


> when I really feel like I'm getting a difference, I record music under conditions where I think I notice it(same rig and all). and then I do a blind test of the tracks(you have to properly time align them in audacity or some DAW, or it's meaningless). if I can still get the difference, then the difference is really in the sound. that aspect is out of the way and the only unknown is why.
> the problem comes when I can't tell the difference in the recorded music. because the chances for me just imagining things are now getting really big, but at the same time, the possibility that the audible differences have been masked by something else isn't zero. it's tiny, but not zero. and that's annoying.
> 
> 
> anecdote time: I got a few cables that really made me go crazy, I couldn't measure anything special yet there was no way they were sounding the same for me.  including one where I finally noticed(completely by accident!!) that I was getting significantly different measurements when it was on the table as opposed to when it was along my body. somehow that made a clear difference on that one cable.


parallel capacitance varies depending of the cable position (to make the measurements, the cable shouldn't be rolled, it has to be straight).

unfortunately, we can't record the music when testing cables, because the cables used to carry the signal from the mic to the ADC, the coupler+mic and the preamplifier themselves, and the phones cable used when replaying, add a lot of new variables which mask (or destroy) the differences between original phones cables.
i think the traditional cables blind test, where you need to be helped by someone else, is the best approach. and the helper should believe the opposite than the listener, because if both believe the same, the result will be contaminated: the observer(s) is(are) never apart of the observed.


----------



## castleofargh

superuser1 said:


> I must stupidly add... imagination is what makes us human.. or we would be following unimaginative and uninspired existences as robots. Maybe I'm stupider than i thought


so what? to prove how human we are we must reject method and just make stuff up? this has nothing to do with stupidity. if you only care about how something makes you feel, then you try and voila! you have effectively answered your question. but what if you have other questions? it might soon come a time when total subjectivity will not answer those and you'll have to find other means. it's that simple.



hakuzen said:


> parallel capacitance varies depending of the cable position (to make the measurements, the cable shouldn't be rolled, it has to be straight).
> 
> unfortunately, we can't record the music when testing cables, because the cables used to carry the signal from the mic to the ADC, the coupler+mic and the preamplifier themselves, and the phones cable used when replaying, add a lot of new variables which mask (or destroy) the differences between original phones cables.
> i think the traditional cables blind test, where you need to be helped by someone else, is the best approach. and the helper should believe the opposite than the listener, because if both believe the same, the result will be contaminated: the observer(s) is(are) never apart of the observed.


I once made something to have 2 cables plugged at the same time and a little switch at the amp output, so I could have rapid switching and no need to move the IEM(which as you know from measurements, is a problem). I did that for one type of exotic plugs so it had extremely limited use while still costing me a bunch of plugs. but otherwise it seemed to do the job. it still requires to bore a friend to death by having him handle the switch behind your back and take notes. something sadly known to be pretty damaging for the friendship part if repeated often 

about my anecdote, I meant more than having the cable measure differently when forming a coil with it or leaving it all wiggly on the table. my anecdote was like my body itself affected the signal by being close to it or not, in a way that I never experienced again. sometimes you can see that at a hopefully small level when keeping your hand on the cable while doing measurements(I guess we kind of become ferrite chokes or an extra antenna, or something). now here is the billion dollar question: as we're going to have that cable on us when using it, shouldn't the measurements and tests be done that way instead of straight on a table? 
but then, what if I get too fat and my own gravitational pull starts slowing the electrons down? ^_^ ok maybe no need to go that far, but there are some small concerns about repeatability. meaning it's still IMO, not the 100% sure method we hope for.


----------



## superuser1

Again, I must politely add, you are missing the point.


----------



## fokta (Oct 28, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> i like these (the best ones i've tried, but they are not cheap):
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32798647058.html (25cm of 13awg wire ended with 4mm retractile copper bananas)
> +
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32324041303.html (copper alligators with 4mm socket for banana)
> ...



regarding Alligator and wires, yes the price is more expensive then my DMM... but it was for 5 units price each...
was thinking buying it, and tried to sell the rest of it. or keep it.. consider spare if I broke it.. hehhee

edit :
btw find these : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000260981705.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.10.483c18d1ItCQIC
should that sufficient enough ?


----------



## hakuzen

fokta said:


> regarding Alligator and wires, yes the price is more expensive then my DMM... but it was for 5 units price each...
> was thinking buying it, and tried to sell the rest of it. or keep it.. consider spare if I broke it.. hehhee
> 
> edit :
> ...


i also own these. they have lower resistance than yours, less than 40 mOhm per 1 meter (the more expensive ones were 5 Ohm per 25cm, so around 20 mOhm/m).
and they are more affordable. but there is a con, the alligators are medium size in both cases, but these are wider than those from my link. they are in the limit to measure the rings of plugs.
other advantage of the more expensive ones, is that the alligators are not soldered to the wire, so i can use the cables for other purposes where a banana end is needed.
pity i couldn't find packs of 2 units of those cables, instead of 5 units.


----------



## fokta

hakuzen said:


> i also own these. they have lower resistance than yours, less than 40 mOhm per 1 meter (the more expensive ones were 5 Ohm per 25cm, so around 20 mOhm/m).
> and they are more affordable. but there is a con, the alligators are medium size in both cases, but these are wider than those from my link. they are in the limit to measure the rings of plugs.
> other advantage of the more expensive ones, is that the alligators are not soldered to the wire, so i can use the cables for other purposes where a banana end is needed.
> pity i couldn't find packs of 2 units of those cables, instead of 5 units.


I think I will order when 11 11.. they already give estimate price..


----------



## hakuzen

superuser1 said:


> I must stupidly add... imagination is what makes us human.. or we would be following unimaginative and uninspired existences as robots. Maybe I'm stupider than i thought





castleofargh said:


> so what? to prove how human we are we must reject method and just make stuff up? this has nothing to do with stupidity. if you only care about how something makes you feel, then you try and voila! you have effectively answered your question. but what if you have other questions? it might soon come a time when total subjectivity will not answer those and you'll have to find other means. it's that simple.
> 
> 
> I once made something to have 2 cables plugged at the same time and a little switch at the amp output, so I could have rapid switching and no need to move the IEM(which as you know from measurements, is a problem). I did that for one type of exotic plugs so it had extremely limited use while still costing me a bunch of plugs. but otherwise it seemed to do the job. it still requires to bore a friend to death by having him handle the switch behind your back and take notes. something sadly known to be pretty damaging for the friendship part if repeated often
> ...


my idea is to do 3 tests using 3 cables (low resistance ofc copper, up-occ copper litz, and up-occ silver). hope my brother will be patient enough.. he is living in another city, and it's not easy to meet, so i have to convince him to do as many tests we can, leaving time for other matters as well.

it's very interesting what you tell. every day we are finding new variables which can affect sound. i've read about dielectric, topology, etc. how different frequencies use different parts of the conductor to travel, and this is also affected by near surrounding currents (like it happens with twisted and braided wires), or by the shape of the wires (cylinder, oval, prism), or by the dielectrics used.
we are reading every day how nano topology matters in many scopes. the same material has different attributes in the borders than inside. and possibly many other unknown parameters are involved. 
we are not able to measure all them now, even if you have kilobucks instrumentation. soundstage, for example. width can be related to crosstalk measurements, but depth and height... the spatial representation of the sounds in our mind can provoke a different sound perception even when frequency response (quantity) and distortion are the same.
we can try our best to measure all we can, but we are limited, and the whole science is also limited. the knowledge about our brain and perception is already in the beginnings. science has changed a lot since quantum physics, to discover we are already little rookies.

considering all this, i think i get the point of what @superuser1 means. most important matters in our life, like love, imagination, creativity, art, meanings, are far to be explained by science (and i think they are out of its scope). music is an expression of our imagination, creativity, and art, besides of science. so we can try a science approach (you know i put my efforts in measuring everything i can), but also a non-science approach, to talk about sound and music. people ignoring the known science part of the sound is not more stupid than people ignoring the non-science or unknown part. we ought to try both approach, and to avoid to disqualify any of them. let's sum, and not divide.
i guess you agree with part of this perspective (based on your usual comments), but wanted to show it here explicitly to help to reconcile both sides. cables discussions would be more bearable.


----------



## superuser1

hakuzen said:


> considering all this, i think i get the point of what @superuser1 means. most important matters in our life, like love, imagination, creativity, art, meanings, are far to be explained by science (and i think they are out of its scope). music is an expression of our imagination, creativity, and art, besides of science. so we can try a science approach (you know i put my efforts in measuring everything i can), but also a non-science approach, to talk about sound and music.


BINGO!
My apologies, i am too stupid to be articulate enough


----------



## hakuzen

fokta said:


> I think I will order when 11 11.. they already give estimate price..


or, if you are going to get mad like me with low resistance measurements, check YR1030/1035 at 11.11, with 4 poles clamps. you'll save the cables cost.


----------



## fokta

hakuzen said:


> or, if you are going to get mad like me with low resistance measurements, check YR1030/1035 at 11.11, with 4 poles clamps. you'll save the cables cost.


Hmm.. That;s very tempting.. 

But since new rules implemented, Device that have batteries in it, will be very difficult to enter our custom... 
let me find out more...


----------



## castleofargh

hakuzen said:


> my idea is to do 3 tests using 3 cables (low resistance ofc copper, up-occ copper litz, and up-occ silver). hope my brother will be patient enough.. he is living in another city, and it's not easy to meet, so i have to convince him to do as many tests we can, leaving time for other matters as well.
> 
> it's very interesting what you tell. every day we are finding new variables which can affect sound. i've read about dielectric, topology, etc. how different frequencies use different parts of the conductor to travel, and this is also affected by near surrounding currents (like it happens with twisted and braided wires), or by the shape of the wires (cylinder, oval, prism), or by the dielectrics used.
> we are reading every day how nano topology matters in many scopes. the same material has different attributes in the borders than inside. and possibly many other unknown parameters are involved.
> ...


too many topics, I'm going to push your thread so far off track if I start replying seriously to all of them, and will probably get crucified for using too many of the banned terms in this section^_^.
no matter how complicated things are and how mysterious a cause, at the output we'll get a signal affected by all those many causes in the right proportions. so recording that signal with 2 cables used a certain way with certain devices, will tell you all you need to know about how much the signal changed. null the output and you'll see exactly that(plus some noise maybe). it's not very interesting because a small phase shift can leave giant amplitudes on a null when they're usually inaudible for a listener(up to a point). so the visual might not correlate with audibility. but as far as mystery variable not yet found in measurements, if it doesn't change the output, it's not an audio mystery. now finding out what it is and what caused it specifically in a given cable... that could be a lot of work for sure. and with our equipment, we would fail to answer many such questions. but I insist on the distinction between having a model or understanding something, as opposed to confirming that it's happening. confirming a sound change is relatively easy and reliable.
as for audiblity... well that is entirely made of the things I must not say here, so I won't.




hakuzen said:


> people ignoring the known science part of the sound is not more stupid than people ignoring the non-science or unknown part.


I don't think a fully subjective approach is inferior to a fully objective approach because a fully objective approach doesn't exist in this hobby. ^_^   did you forever kill your feelings for music and your imagination the day you got your first microphone and made a FR graph with it? I'm gonna take a very small risk and bet a box of Pringles that you didn't.  
so the fake dichotomy doesn't exist, and the real one involves people who stay away from a form of knowledge while other don't. the former will tend to miss out on that form of knowledge they ignored. obviously.


----------



## fokta (Oct 29, 2019)

My Measurement of FiiO adapter LL 44 : 4.4 Female TRRS to 3.5 Male TRS was 10...<10...10...10  Amazed...

OKCS 4.4 TRRS female to 2.5 TRRS male : 30...30...70..20


forgot to meassure the cable length... will update again...
Btw, this was the adapter that I need to re solder because bad connection when I bought this..

edit

ALO SuperLitz SPC 3.5 cable, CFA Solaris Original Cable
90...110...150...150...

Never thought, this is quite fun... hehehe..


edit 2: 

Cable 130 4.4mm : 90...100...80...90...

Hahaha..


----------



## fokta

Warning... large image

@hakuzen, please change the 179 picture to the following... to get the idea how pretty it is..


----------



## hakuzen

fokta said:


> @hakuzen, please change the 179 picture to the following... to get the idea how pretty it is..


done. thank you, nice photos!


----------



## CobraMan

fokta said:


> Warning... large image
> 
> @hakuzen, please change the 179 picture to the following... to get the idea how pretty it is..


Hey there @fokta - any measurements of your 179. cable yet now that you are in the "measuring game"?

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## fokta

CobraMan said:


> Hey there @fokta - any measurements of your 179. cable yet now that you are in the "measuring game"?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tim



Yes, the measurement alrd did 2 days ago


fokta said:


> 179 (165 8c) :
> 160, 200, 110, 130 mOhm...
> 
> hehehe...



Now need to takes things slow, learning a lot of things yesterday...


----------



## CobraMan

fokta said:


> Yes, the measurement alrd did 2 days ago
> 
> 
> Now need to takes things slow, learning a lot of things yesterday...


Thank you for sharing - interesting that the numbers are not closer to each other left vs right and even + vs - ...

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## fokta

CobraMan said:


> Thank you for sharing - interesting that the numbers are not closer to each other left vs right and even + vs - ...
> 
> Cheers,
> Tim


Yes.. The Probe I used is reguler... so I also quite not to confident... 

even when measuring things that alrd measured by Hakuzen, I am a bit sceptic... 175 and 165, mine is a bit less... will publish soon.. I forgot to bring my note...


----------



## areek (Oct 30, 2019)

*Appreciation post*
I believe this post should have been made a month ago, but I became too busy and could not get back with my feedbacks on the following cable from Electro Acousti store in aliexpress that @hakuzen suggested.
The cables- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007390866.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.24.67b936b6yXnmDd
I got a 1m long 4 core mmcx terminated cable for the Sony N3 iems. Costed me 64$ including assembly. Got my hands on them within10 days in Bangladesh. These blew the stock N3 cables away sonically. Massively enhanced soundstage, Deeper bass, fuller mids, more refined highs with better control over all the frequencies. These made the N3s an iem to beat under 500$. However, the 2.5mm jack was probably a bit thicker than usual and even though provided a solid connection, actually made the 2.5mm female terminals quite loose with other 2.5mm jacks that I have.
The 2.5mm jack I used were these- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33058955689.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.28.67b936b6yXnmDd

_*Need suggestions-*_
I should also mention that I have actually sold by N3 with the cable and got myself an Campfire andromeda. Now I need recommendation for 2 things-
1. Sub 100$ 2.5mm mmcx cable that complements the andromeda.
2. 2.5mm female to 4pin xlr male adapter. High quality. 

Thanks.


----------



## fokta (Oct 30, 2019)

my 175 cable measurement
110...140...130...120...



Seems my Measurement is lesser then Hakuzen, but when I tried The DD adapter again.. still higher
DD 2.5 - 4.4 : 90...100...100...80
 
OKCS 4.4 - 2.5
30...40...60...20...


----------



## hakuzen

areek said:


> *Appreciation post*
> I believe this post should have been made a month ago, but I became too busy and could not get back with my feedbacks on the following cable from Electro Acousti store in aliexpress that @hakuzen suggested.
> The cables- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007390866.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.24.67b936b6yXnmDd
> I got a 1m long 4 core mmcx terminated cable for the Sony N3 iems. Costed me 64$ including assembly. Got my hands on them within10 days in Bangladesh. These blew the stock N3 cables away sonically. Massively enhanced soundstage, Deeper bass, fuller mids, more refined highs with better control over all the frequencies. These made the N3s an iem to beat under 500$. However, the 2.5mm jack was probably a bit thicker than usual and even though provided a solid connection, actually made the 2.5mm female terminals quite loose with other 2.5mm jacks that I have.
> ...


thank you for sharing your experience!
i enjoy finding people who notice the same difference i did of oem up-occ wires respect of the rest of the wires you can find in chinese market.

i haven't got internet at home for some days, so i can't link the xlr4 to 2.5mm female adapters i got. i got two "short" adapters at taobao. music heaven one (one of their models, the shortest, but a bit expensive). and a blend of EST (japan) 2.5mm socket with neutrik xlr4 jack (decent affordable quality, guess you could DiY this one). you can find a similar one using furukawa xlr4, but the price is much more expensive.
another option is drop adapter, which is venture electronics one, which can be found at aliexpress as well.
another option is DIYing your wired adapter, where you can choose your desired socket and jack, but also your desired wire and solder).

about andromeda, i haven't tried it, but judging by signature impressions and price, i'd recommend cable 175 of my list, for example, to improve the highs perception compared with other wires. 8 cores version costs much more than the budget you mentioned, but guess its price keeps proportion with androneda price.

i'll receive 4 new cables next week. but i'll also start a job on monday (very few free hours left daily), and have already many pendent tasks.
however, hope to recover internet and to add them to the database before 11.11 sales


----------



## fokta

fokta said:


> 179 (165 8c) :
> 160, 200, 110, 130 mOhm...
> 
> hehehe...


Re meassuring 179 borrowing aligator clip
160...180...170...170...

I believe this one will be more proper...


----------



## SciOC

@hakuzen this is probably a stupid question, but it's this link the current version of the vapcell you use?  It looks like bundle 2 is the basic setup I'd need to stay getting better measurements...

Thanks.

US $37.45  39%OFF | YR1030 High Precision 4 Wires Internal Resistance Tester For Li-ion/ LiFePo4/ Ni-MH/Lead-Acid/Ni-Cd Battery
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/tkCk81ji


----------



## hakuzen

fokta said:


> Re meassuring 179 borrowing aligator clip
> 160...180...170...170...
> 
> I believe this one will be more proper...


yea, these sound better



SciOC said:


> @hakuzen this is probably a stupid question, but it's this link the current version of the vapcell you use?  It looks like bundle 2 is the basic setup I'd need to stay getting better measurements...
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ...


my yr1030 is the old clear version.
the one from your link is yr1030+. yes, bundle 2 is what you need (kelvin clamps, plus leads)
for a bit more, you can get new yr1035, with even better resolution, and 4 pins connection instead of usb


----------



## fokta

just want to report. 

 
Borrowing better aligator clamp, with lower resistance 100mOhm.

The following is the measurement :
 

DD 2.5TRRS to 3.5TRS
40...30...50...50...

DD 2.5TRRS to 4.4 TRRS
60...40...50...60...

Dunu 2.5TRRS to 3.5TRS
20...10...20...20...

OKCS 2.5TRRS to 4.4 TRRS
20...10...20...10...

Final Result, My conclusion for my own Measurement, DD adapter is almost double the resistance then Dunu or OKCS adapter.


----------



## superuser1

fokta said:


> just want to report.
> 
> Borrowing better aligator clamp, with lower resistance 100mOhm.
> 
> ...


 great work!!


----------



## fokta

@cycheang 

The Adapter you looking is DD adapter https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000164103882.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.49a14c4dnww1kW

Just suggestion, you can find better conductivity adapter then DD adapter.. but if you are looking for DOPE looking.. DD is the way..


----------



## fokta

BRISE UPG001Ref Pentacon... 

 
Stiff & microphonic... ONLY OFC Pure Copper... and Quite pricey... 

But the sound it creates... OMG, it solved some of the sound sig I need... Much better then 179...

The Highlight, all corrections in freq, & can reduce the Hiss (quite enough). 

Measurement
120...120...110...120


EA Excalibur...
really mature Sound... 
 
 
Can't measure, because is a new Demo unit... hehehe...


----------



## hakuzen

fokta said:


> BRISE UPG001Ref Pentacon...
> 
> 
> Stiff & microphonic... ONLY OFC Pure Copper... and Quite pricey...
> ...


nice ones, thanks!


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

hakuzen said:


> done. thank you, nice photos!


Bro....

can you tell me the very best sub-30$ we can find at ALI SALE right now?? With lower impendance.

i try to check all your cables info list but it make me confuse....

im not a big fan of only copper...

Would be appreciate if you share some great spc (or mixed) cable with lowest impendance possible.

Thanks in advance bro.


----------



## hakuzen (Nov 11, 2019)

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> Bro....
> 
> can you tell me the very best sub-30$ we can find at ALI SALE right now?? With lower impendance.
> 
> ...


you can find them in part 3 (it will be part 4 soon) of comments, pics, and links, or in cables below $30 part 1.
lowest impedance is cable 065, but i'd prefer cables 051 or 053 (silver color).
edit:
this cable also gives you good bass and brighter treble:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000009633191.html (6n occ spc + copper)
(cable 196 in my list of measurements, i'll add comments, pics, and links soon)
but spc wire has got higher impedance.


----------



## hakuzen (Nov 11, 2019)

added cable 183 to the database. it's an alternative to cable 175, if you want a less bright cable than 174.

*182*, *183*. eac AuPlatAg+AgAu 4c/8c (gold+silver,eagle,MV)
taiwan neotech oem 24k gold plated up-occ silver + up-occ pure silver99% + Au1% alloy. 28awg/core, PE sheath, from electro acousti.
structure:
AuAg: 0.10mm*10(ID:0.36mm/OD:1.4mm/28.15awg). gold plated Ag: 0.15mm?*7 (~26awg).
the result is 27AWG (24AWG in 8 cores version).
eagle true rhodium plated plug (over gold plating); superb quality plug, there is a big difference between these components (jack, divider, slider), and those used in any other chi-cable from my list; the plug costs over $14, while others cost $2-3. good strain reliefs.
mmcx, 2pins, QDC, and other terminations, together with 2.5, 3.5, 4.4mm plugs, available. you can also ask for other terminations, like 2.5mm or 3.5mm plugs for headphones, and not ear molded guides (search for desired plugs in their stock).
flexible wire, but not the most flexible; it's supple, considering its thickness.
some microphonics, then, although i don't notice them when music is playing.
like the other up-occ wires, sound is very clean, reference. darker background, deeper soundstage, which helps to better separation and imaging perception. this also leads to better definition and detail.
compared to cables 173/174 (only AgAu wire), the gold plated silver wire helps to get less bright result. quality of upper mids and highs is the same, but you get bolder bass and low mids, and some more sub-bass rumble.
compared to 175, i think i prefer up-occ copper bass than this gold plated silver bass. but i have to do further AB between both cables to confirm it.

wires used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046978735.html (same than cables 173/174), and
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007639757.html












*183*. 8 cores version: 122..122..119..131 mΩ..[33.3g]..108..102 pF..[112cm]
outer diameter: 5.5mm. length from splitter: 37cm.








*182*. 4 cores version





links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33044349754.html


----------



## hakuzen (Nov 11, 2019)

added cable 210 (nicehck 6n up-occ silver & copper alloy, 4 cores) to the database.
resistance is very high, but the sound you get is great, specially the bass, imo.

*210*. hck 6n upocc ag&cu lz 4c (light copper,M): 382..409..386..403 mΩ..[21.4g]..78..73 pF..[129cm]
outer diameter: 5.5mm. length from splitter: 40cm.
nicehck oalloy 6n up-occ silver & copper alloy litz. PE sheath.
structure: 0.06mm*22*2(26AWG)*4c. advertised as 25awg conductor.
geometry is two groups of 22 twisted strands, both twisted.
it comes into a nicehck flat zip case (one of my fav cases).
the plugs are nice looking. i like the bevel in the 2.5mm plug.
the wire is soft and medium-low flexibility.
as you can see, resistance measurements don't match 25 nor 26awg. it's around 29 or 30awg. the discrepancy could be originated by an improper litz remove before soldering. found similar issue in cable 192.
despite of the resistance, you can notice the sound stage and black background of up-occ wires here.
the sound you get with this cable is really good. i'm amazed by the bass: it's very detailed (great texture) but it has big presence and sub-bass rumble. i think it's my favorite bass from all up-occ wires i've tried.
sound is balanced, not dark, not bright. about treble, you don't get same detail and clarity than with AgAu wire (cables 173/174, 175, 182/183), but it's there.












wire:




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000167037021.html


----------



## hakuzen

and i have no time to add cable 198 now (new electro acousti 7n frozen single crystal copper litz cable). will do it later.
measurements have been added to the list (4 cores version).
i can advance it is the darkest cable i got from electro acousti. huge bass.


----------



## RSC08 (Nov 11, 2019)

Any recommendations for a pure cooper cable for the TIn Hifi P1 (Planar) below $50?

So far I've found these:

- https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/3300...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_52
- https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32972927351.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.104c3c00SFSaYJ&mp=1
- https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32893743010.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.104c3c00SFSaYJ&mp=1
- https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/3295...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_52


----------



## hakuzen

*198*. eac 7n scc frz lz (copper,eagle,MV)
frozen 7n single crystal copper litz. PE sheath.
structure: 0.06mm*7*7(.139s/.42mm/25.7AWG) per core; 22.7AWG (~90mΩ!) per signal, if 8 cores.
geometry is shown in the pic below. in this case, litz looks properly removed before soldering.
eagle true rhodium plated plug (over gold plating); superb quality plug, there is a big difference between these components (jack, divider, slider), and those used in any other chi-cable from my list; the plug costs over $14, while others cost $2-3. good strain reliefs.
mmcx, 2pins, QDC, and other terminations, together with 2.5, 3.5, 4.4mm plugs, available. you can also ask for other terminations, like 2.5mm or 3.5mm plugs for headphones, and not ear molded guides (search for desired plugs in their stock).
flexible wire, at least the 4 cores version. more flexible than up-occ cables.
my first try in this cable (not burn-in) shows huge bass. lot of rumble. this makes the cable the darkest from the electro acousti cables i've tried. there is good detail in mids and treble, but due to bass presence, the overall result is warm.
i'm in love with up-occ wires, because of their deep sound stage and black background, and tight and detailed bass (personal preference): this wire doesn't reach the high mark up-occ has set, although it is close.
i'd recommend this cable for bassheads, or for trying to get a darker sound from your excessively bright source+phones combo.
i'll update my impressions when i spend more time with this cable.

wire:








8 cores version:





4 cores version: 167..164..164..174 mΩ..[23.8g]..76..71 pF..[113cm]
outer diameter: 4mm. length from splitter: 40cm.





links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000227749190.html


----------



## Slater

Hey hakuzen, do you have any experience with the newer NiceHCK cables. They are the C16-1, C16-2, and C16-3?

They seem very nice quality for the price.


----------



## CobraMan

Slater said:


> Hey hakuzen, do you have any experience with the newer NiceHCK cables. They are the C16-1, C16-2, and C16-3?
> 
> They seem very nice quality for the price.


Yeah - I just ordered the C16-3 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000129870705.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.64284c4dbM58Oc) as well as cable 053 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32916162030.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.20824c4dQn5hoy) given the great deals/discounts currently going.  Already received notice that they have shipped as well!

Definitely interested to hear @hakuzen thoughts on those C16.x cables...

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## hakuzen (Nov 11, 2019)

i apologize for not getting the time to add comments and pics of the two budget cables in the batch before 11.11 sales end.
however, complete measurements have been added to the database.
of course, stage is not as deep as with up-occ wires, and they are in another league.
they are:


- cable *090* (nicehck 4n ofhc -copper-). https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000097502378.html
090. hck 4n ofc 4c (copper,furt,M): 177.. 202..193..190 mΩ..[24.9g]..92..89 pF..[127cm]
nice looking affordable cable. good amount of bass. the result is warm. typical decent (and honest) copper cable.
it is very soft and ultra flexible wire.















- cable *196*, electro acousti offer of 6n occ hybrid silver plated copper + copper. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000009633191.html
196. eac 6n occ+spc litz 4c (silver+copper,eagle,MV): 167..168..296..288 mΩ..[22.1g]..76..71 pF..[116cm]
as you can see, copper is used for positive signals, and spc (thinner) for negative.
perception of tonality is what expected. full bass and airy treble. balanced. good highs detail.
very good hybrid one, although i miss the deep stage of more expensive up-occ wires.
with these wires, you feel the sound closer to you.
it is very soft and ultra flexible wire.


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> Hey hakuzen, do you have any experience with the newer NiceHCK cables. They are the C16-1, C16-2, and C16-3?
> 
> They seem very nice quality for the price.





CobraMan said:


> Yeah - I just ordered the C16-3 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000129870705.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.64284c4dbM58Oc) as well as cable 053 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32916162030.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.20824c4dQn5hoy) given the great deals/discounts currently going.  Already received notice that they have shipped as well!
> 
> Definitely interested to hear @hakuzen thoughts on those C16.x cables...
> 
> ...


i'd like to try them. hope Jim can send me one


----------



## fokta (Nov 16, 2019)

@hakuzen
now I am confidence for measurements...
my YR1305 had come



Brise UPG001Ref Pentacon
88...87,4...83,8...85,9

Adapter Fiio LL-4.4M, 4.4 TRRS to 3.5SE
12,1...10,6...15,6...16,5

Adapter OKCSC 4.4 TRRS to 2.5 TRRS
22,9...22,7...18,4...32


----------



## fokta

fokta said:


> just want to report.
> 
> Borrowing better aligator clamp, with lower resistance 100mOhm.
> 
> ...



with Better DMM... the conclusion still the same.. DD double resistance then Dunu & OKCSC

remeassurement result

DD 2.5TRRS to 3.5TRS
44,4...35...34,4...36,1...

DD 2.5TRRS to 4.4 TRRS
46,3...47,5...43,3...62...

Dunu 2.5TRRS to 3.5TRS
16,3...14,3...13...8,5...

OKCS 2.5TRRS to 4.4 TRRS
16,5...12,3...13...10,1...


----------



## superuser1

fokta said:


> with Better DMM... the conclusion still the same.. DD double resistance then Dunu & OKCSC
> 
> remeassurement result
> 
> ...


Awesome and thank you ... beauty is indeed skin deep


----------



## fokta (Nov 12, 2019)

superuser1 said:


> Awesome and thank you ... beauty is indeed skin deep


well, if you have super sensitive ear... U will noticed a small fraction different.. but Volume wise, u can measure...

NEXT is the eac Adapter 2.5 to 4.4... still waiting the stuff arrived


----------



## hakuzen

fokta said:


> @hakuzen
> now I am confidence for measurements...
> my YR1305 had come
> 
> ...


yayay! congrats, yea, it's the most comfortable and accurate gear to measure low resistance and DC voltage. i'd love it even more if it could measure AC voltage as well..


----------



## fokta

hakuzen said:


> ...tw upocc AgAu+copper litz 8c eagle 2.5-4.4...........18.2/18.4...16.9/17...15.5/19.1...15.4/17



My EAC adapter had arrived... 
 
 
 

my Measurement : 15,5...17,9...16,3...18,3


----------



## _mouse_

Sorry for my req...
My source is a smartphone (LG G7) with music from Tidal
I've found a good pair of AKG K145(they have a 6.3mmm plug -1/4) and this adapter https://www.ebay.com/itm/deleyCON-0...759751?hash=item2867a81207:g:BCgAAOSwKfFbndbh
The sound that comes is very low...so did you have some suggestion?
Regards!


----------



## hakuzen

_mouse_ said:


> Sorry for my req...
> My source is a smartphone (LG G7) with music from Tidal
> I've found a good pair of AKG K145(they have a 6.3mmm plug -1/4) and this adapter https://www.ebay.com/itm/deleyCON-0...759751?hash=item2867a81207:g:BCgAAOSwKfFbndbh
> The sound that comes is very low...so did you have some suggestion?
> Regards!


have you enabled "Hi-Fi Quad DAC" at "Sound quality and effects - External audio"?


----------



## _mouse_

hakuzen said:


> have you enabled "Hi-Fi Quad DAC" at "Sound quality and effects - External audio"?


yes ...done!
All the time I use it with a pair of fiio FH5...uhmmm just in case some suggestion about a cable for them? I have LC 3.5C atm


----------



## hakuzen (Nov 16, 2019)

_mouse_ said:


> yes ...done!
> All the time I use it with a pair of fiio FH5...uhmmm just in case some suggestion about a cable for them? I have LC 3.5C atm


did this help with AKG K145 volume level?
when using LG G7 quad dac, it adjusts the output voltage depending of the impedance of the headphones. 200-220ohm and 89dB/mW of your k145 could be a bit hard to drive, hope the amplifier of your G7 provides enough juice.

edit: 89dB/mW sensitivity is 95.6dB/V at 1kHz..
if you don't use quality quad dac from G7, maximum voltage is 0.778Vrms (dBu). so maximum level is ~93.4dB SPL @1kHz. this could be enough for many listeners, not for me.
using quad dac, you can get from 1Vrms (dBV) to 2Vrms, depending of what your phone decides.
1Vrms is still a bit forced, but guess G7 will decide to use 2Vrms for 220ohms phones. this gives you a maximum of 101.6dB SPL at 1kHz, and then it should be enough to listen below 100% volume.

my most recommended cables are in the 3 first "pics, comments, and links" sections of my list. i don't own any fiio earphones, but heard they use to be in the dark/warm side. then, any up-occ wire would help for sure.


----------



## hakuzen (Nov 17, 2019)

added cable 196 to the database.

*196*. eac 6n occ+spc litz 4c (silver+copper,eagle,MV): 167..168..296..288 mΩ..[22.1g]..76..71 pF..[116cm]
outer diameter: 4.6mm. length from splitter: 39cm.
electro acousti 6n occ copper and silver plated copper hybrid cable. PE sheath.
groups of twisted strands are twisted into each core, litz geometry.
one material is used for positive signals, and the other for negative/ground, resulting in 26AWG for positive, and 28AWG for negative/ground. my unit uses balanced jack, which i prefer for these kind of cables.
eagle gold plated plugs use to have very good quality.
perception of tonality is what expected. full bass and airy treble. balanced. great highs detail.
very good hybrid one, although i miss the deep stage of more expensive up-occ wires.
with these wires, you feel the sound closer to you than with up-occ wires.
it is very soft and ultra flexible wire. one of my affordable hybrid cables favorites.
















links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000009633191.html


----------



## hakuzen

added cable 090 to the database.

*090*. hck 4n ofc 4c (copper,furt,M): 177.. 202..193..190 mΩ..[24.9g]..92..89 pF..[127cm]
structure: 0.075mm*56(OD:1.5mm/23AWG) 4n ofhc. PVC sheath advertised, but it's a very soft PE sheath.
outer diameter: 5.5mm. length from splitter: 40cm.
litz geometry (7/8 packs of 8/7 twisted strands, twisted between them into each core). and maybe litz enameling, because resistance measurements don't match 23awg (26AWG instead). improper litz remove before soldering could explain this discrepancy, like with cables 192 and 210.
nicehck honest but great quality 4n ofhc cable. it's refreshing to find chinese cables with true wire quality advertised.
good amount of bass. the result is warm. typical decent copper cable.
it is very soft and ultra flexible wire. i'd rate this near cables 168 and 192.
nice looking affordable quality copper cable.
















links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000097502378.html


----------



## hakuzen (Nov 17, 2019)

added adapter 64 to the adapters database.

*64*. eac upocc AgAu+copper litz 8c eagle 4.4f-3.5m.....17...average (many measured)
custom adapter from electro acousti (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206), using same wires than cable 175.
7.5cm (not counting plugs). neotech (taiwan) oem up-occ silver 99%+ gold 1% alloy, and frozen 7n up-occ copper litz (best silver and copper wires in my stock, imo).
eagle 4.4mm female socket is not the usual cheap chinese socket. it is built for many insertions.
3.5mm TRS male and 2.5mm TRRS male versions available as default options.
links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000231198864.html (custom wires and plugs)
8 cores of 28awg, 25AWG/signal.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046978735.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008255130.html
very high quality durable plugs (eagle, rhodium plated over gold plated beryllium copper):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000227685853.html (eagle durable gold plated copper)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007901246.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007579285.html







much better quality than this (but also double price):

*54*. FiiO LB-4.4m 4.4f-2.5m............................................~25
i don't like much the plugs. 4.4mm female socket looks cheap.




links (many sellers):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969207148.html


----------



## fokta

Mother of Jack adapter... 

SONY Adapter 4.4 Female TRRS to 2.5 Male TRRS
 
 

Conductivity : 8,3...11,2...9,2...15,7

This adapter REALLY HUGE....


----------



## andersos

fokta said:


> Mother of Jack adapter...
> 
> SONY Adapter 4.4 Female TRRS to 2.5 Male TRRS
> 
> ...



Do you have a link to this adapter?


----------



## fokta

andersos said:


> Do you have a link to this adapter?


I bought this locally, the seller said is part of accessories from SONY product (he also forget which one..)


----------



## fokta

when I asked How deep wass my Audio addiction... 

I Just show this... 
 
Its the most neglectable... but I had it, and usefull for me... hehehe


----------



## bobbooo (Nov 21, 2019)

fokta said:


> when I asked How deep wass my Audio addiction...
> 
> I Just show this...
> 
> Its the most neglectable... but I had it, and usefull for me... hehehe



Unlike the other adapters you have there, which are nothing more than short pieces of wire so offer no audible change in audio quality, the orange dongle (the iFi Ear Buddy) is definitely not 'neglectable', as it actually consists of a voltage divider - for each channel the input voltage is connected to two resistors R1 + R2 in series, one larger than the other, but with the output voltage across only the smaller resistor R2. This attenuates the voltage by the ratio of the two resistors' values, and so reduces the output impedance that the headphones see (when connected to a high output impedance source). This in turn minimises frequency response changes in IEMs with low and wildly varying input impedance with frequency, getting you closer to the intended tuning. By attenuating the source's output voltage (and so power), the Ear Buddy also reduces its effective noise floor, eliminating hiss when used with very sensistive IEMs. See here for a full review and explanation.


----------



## fokta (Nov 21, 2019)

bobbooo said:


> Unlike the other adapters you have there, which are nothing more than short pieces of wire so offer no audible change in audio quality, the orange dongle (the iFi Ear Buddy) is definitely not 'neglectable', as it actually consists of a voltage divider - for each channel the input voltage is connected to two resistors R1 + R2 in series, one larger than the other, but with the output voltage across only the smaller resistor R2. This attenuates the voltage by the ratio of the two resistors' values, and so reduces the output impedance that the headphones see (when connected to a high output impedance source). This in turn minimises frequency response changes in IEMs with low and wildly varying input impedance with frequency, getting you closer to the intended tuning. By attenuating the source's output voltage (and so power), the Ear Buddy also reduces its effective noise floor, eliminating hiss when used with very sensistive IEMs. See here for a full review and explanation.


hahaha.. Yes.. Thank you for the explanation... 

I have this for more then a year... quite handy ifi earbuddy, especially if you often traveling by plane, and still want to use your IEM in an Aeroplane multimedia... it really reduce quite big chunk of noise from it...
Also used it to watch youtube or listen Spotify using ipad.. since Ipad has quite HISS with my IEM...
in SQ term, I dont like it, it cuts some freq... but if the purpose to listen without HISS, it will do the job...




bobbooo said:


> Unlike the other adapters you have there, which are nothing more than short pieces of wire so offer no audible change in audio quality,


Hmm.. I have different opinion about these... the adapter do make sound coloring...

The What so call SONY adapter is using Pentacon Jack in it.. that's why is damn thick and huge...
for me, it makes all freq especially bass and vocal Tighter... While on my OKCSC, I felt the bass is boomy (which I liked)...
Being using it for 3 days now... doing the switch, and i can confirm exp it..

@andersos I found these on Tao Bao... seems is the OEM manufacturing... sorry can't paste the link.. dunno why...


----------



## castleofargh

fokta said:


> in SQ term, I dont like it, it cuts some freq... but if the purpose to listen without HISS, it will do the job...


not sure if that's relevant to you as you already seem pretty sure that every random piece of passive conductor has its own sound, but whatever frequency response change you're getting from the Earbuddy is likely to be related to the IEM you use, and maybe to the amp itself. the attenuation on one IEM could very much become a boost or an attenuation at another frequency, or nothing but a global gain change with another IEM. same reason why saying a cable is audibly bright is rarely true with all IEMs(if at all audible in the first place). but with the Earbuddy the impact is expected to be a good deal bigger because even if it's only a few resistors, it's obviously resulting in more electrical impact than a basic plug.


the big idea here, and I'm talking to everybody, not you specifically, is that a plug or a cable is unlikely to have a sound of its own, not even that voltage divider cable. even putting aside blind test stuff(as this section demands it for all the wrong reasons), anytime you guys discuss how something "sounds", try to also list the source+IEM. first because it's relevant as it's always part of the equation so IMO it just makes sense. and second because that way you're much less likely to be completely wrong about whatever sonic description you're going to give. win-win situation! readers get a context, and you guys get to be wrong slightly less often.


----------



## hakuzen

btw, dunu resistance adapters are like ifi ear buddy, voltage divider, and different to simple serial resistance of other chinese resistance adapters.
in dunu 75 ohms adapter, R1=75ohm and R2=15ohm, approx.
too much attenuation (75ohm), and still too high impedance seen by the iem (15ohm).


----------



## zxcv32 (Nov 22, 2019)

@hakuzen Hi, i was thinking of buying nicehck 16 core cable(cable 063 here) before seeing your post. I am not sure if i should buy it now. I am going to use it for **** ****. Is there any better cable than this that costs the same or less? It has to be straight, not like curved kz cables.

https://aliexpress.com/item/32954926911.html


----------



## hakuzen

zxcv32 said:


> @hakuzen Hi, i was thinking of buying nicehck 16 core cable(cable 063 here) before seeing your post. I am not sure if i should buy it now. I am going to use it for **** ****. Is there any better cable than this that costs the same or less? It has to be straight, not like curved kz cables.
> 
> https://aliexpress.com/item/32954926911.html


not much quality difference in that segment of price. cable 063 should be ok,


----------



## zxcv32

hakuzen said:


> not much quality difference in that segment of price. cable 063 should be ok,


Sorry, i made a mistake and write 063 instead of 062. How is 062 cable? You wrote "worse conductivity (narrower conductor) than its 8 cores sibling". And some numbers are blue and written bold.


----------



## hakuzen

zxcv32 said:


> Sorry, i made a mistake and write 063 instead of 062. How is 062 cable? You wrote "worse conductivity (narrower conductor) than its 8 cores sibling". And some numbers are blue and written bold.


i'd better go for cables 064 (if copper desired) or 063 (if you prefer silver/alloy plated copper)


----------



## zxcv32

hakuzen said:


> i'd better go for cables 064 (if copper desired) or 063 (if you prefer silver/alloy plated copper)


064 is a curved cable. 063 is silver plated. So, i want to avoid these. Is there anything besides these?


----------



## zxcv32

hakuzen said:


> i'd better go for cables 064 (if copper desired) or 063 (if you prefer silver/alloy plated copper)


I don't know what material to choose. Can you help me with that? In reviews, i see that my iem is slightly bright. I researched how the different material changes sound but couldn't make sure what to buy. I will buy 062 or 063. Which one should i choose? I would like to get 064 but i can't use that curved cable on my iem.


----------



## hakuzen

062 is ok then. you'll perceive 063 slightly brighter than 062/064. anyway, you can remove the curved heatshrink of 063/064 with a cutter, carefully (not to cut the wire)


----------



## zxcv32

hakuzen said:


> 062 is ok then. you'll perceive 063 slightly brighter than 062/064. anyway, you can remove the curved heatshrink of 063/064 with a cutter, carefully (not to cut the wire)


Okay, i will get 062. I don't want to deal with removing curved heatshrink right now. Thank you for all your help.


----------



## danniao (Nov 27, 2019)

Hakuzen, thanks so much. What a tremendous effort you have done for the head-fi community! I have already bought a few cables based on your recommendations and now ready for the top cable in your list: 175. One question for you, in this link, two 8-wire cables are listed under the options. They look different and the text on the pictures are different- are they the same thing or not?

Https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/MMELrW3O

Also the title of page says gold and silver...


----------



## superuser1

danniao said:


> Hakuzen, thanks so much. What a tremendous effort you have done for the head-fi community! I have already bought a few cables based on your recommendations and now ready for the top cable in your list: 175. One question for you, in this link, two 8-wire cables are listed under the options. They look different and the text on the pictures are different- are they the same thing or not?
> 
> Https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/MMELrW3O
> 
> Also the title of page says gold and silver...


Subject to correction i think the only difference is the sleeve colour of the OCC copper (Ohno Continuous Casting) portion is blue


----------



## danniao

superuser1 said:


> Subject to correction i think the only difference is the sleeve colour of the OCC copper (Ohno Continuous Casting) portion is blue




Thanks! I think you must be right- now I see they have different color options for the pure copper cable.


----------



## hakuzen

danniao said:


> Hakuzen, thanks so much. What a tremendous effort you have done for the head-fi community! I have already bought a few cables based on your recommendations and now ready for the top cable in your list: 175. One question for you, in this link, two 8-wire cables are listed under the options. They look different and the text on the pictures are different- are they the same thing or not?
> 
> Https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/MMELrW3O
> 
> Also the title of page says gold and silver...


yes, confirmed. cryo up-occ copper litz wire is available with two different sleeves: transparent (so you see the copper color), and translucent blue (the color changes depending of the light); you can check the new photos i added to the database recently to get an idea of the result color when using the translucent blue sleeve.


----------



## hakuzen

deep and spot on review of CEMA electro acousti (EAC) cables 170 and 198 by my good friend @Animagus, including comparisons with other cables.
excellent work, i subscribe everything told there.
https://twister6.com/2019/11/27/electro-acousti-cryo-litz-7n-up-occ-7n-scc-cables/


----------



## danniao

hakuzen said:


> yes, confirmed. cryo up-occ copper litz wire is available with two different sleeves: transparent (so you see the copper color), and translucent blue (the color changes depending of the light); you can check the new photos i added to the database recently to get an idea of the result color when using the translucent blue sleeve.



Thanks for confirming! They both look great. Any perceivable difference in terms of softness of the two color versions?


----------



## hakuzen

danniao said:


> Thanks for confirming! They both look great. Any perceivable difference in terms of softness of the two color versions?


nope, same conductor, same sleeve material, just different color


----------



## danniao

Got it. Thanks!


hakuzen said:


> nope, same conductor, same sleeve material, just different color


----------



## fokta

hakuzen said:


> deep and spot on review of CEMA electro acousti (EAC) cables 170 and 198 by my good friend @Animagus, including comparisons with other cables.
> excellent work, i subscribe everything told there.
> https://twister6.com/2019/11/27/electro-acousti-cryo-litz-7n-up-occ-7n-scc-cables/


At last... some acknowledgement... well at least an alternative for better material cable with more affordable price...


----------



## fokta (Dec 23, 2019)

Effect Audio VOUGE series

Conductivity :
Based on cable length 1,2 Meters :

Maestro : 169,7... 224,1...194,1...174,2 mOhm
4C 26AWG UP-OCC Copper Litz 2pin 2,5TRRS




Virtuoso : 172,8... 190,3...186,6...243 mOhm
4C 26AWG UP-OCC SPC Litz 2pin 2,5TRRS




Grandioso : 173,5... 161,1...171,7...164,1mOhm
4C 26AWG UP-OCC Silver Copper Hybrid Litz 2pin 2,5TRRS




IMO, at Grandioso, the Silver material used is not SPC, this based on my sound impression, that the cable more on true Silver characteristic... and some how similar like signature like 175, but less wide soundstage and More MidCentric (Vocal still Dominate).

Price is higher, and Grandioso give 4 core only... unfortunately...


----------



## subwoof3r (Dec 29, 2019)

Hi guys,
I well received my *175* (4 cores version) ! 

I decided to change my mind and give a new chance to Electro Acousti store, and I am so happy I did that!
This cable is truely a killer one in both look and sound.
More impressions to come but from the first hours with that I spent, its already my best cable ever and (to me) a better upgrade from 210, (especially in transparency which more sound like the S4 in this area).
I can hear details in some tracks that I never heared before, incredible.
Thank you so much @hakuzen for the recommendation of this cable

Here is some photos (that I took today) to share with you guys :








My only reproach is the black heatshrink coming out from the plug, nothing really annoying anyway but I hoped a transparent like the other parts for the perfect look :


Cheers'


----------



## hakuzen

nice detailed pics, thanks! i'm very glad you gave another chance to electro acousti, because every people who had any issue with them, have reported their excellent customer support to me, except in your past case.
and glad you enjoy 175 as much as i do. yea, the details in upper-mids and highs are a remarkable difference between ag-au wire and the rest. can't live anymore without that detailed ringing decay.


----------



## adgun

@hakuzen 
could you compare cable no 194 vs cable no 175 4 core?
which is better?

and whats the different between AWG 26 or 28 "OCC Headphone Upgrade Line 7N UP-OCC COPPER" cables?
does different AWG gives different in sounds?
that wire was used in cable cable 172 / 179

thank you.


----------



## prionsarebad (Jan 5, 2020)

After purchasing several upgrade cables, including the CEMA RX series, I have come to the conclusion that pure copper is my personal preference (because i prefer Nicehck C16-3 to the CEMA RX).

With that in mind there are a couple of examples due to go on sale soon on AE. I would like to purchase one of them and I was wondering if anyone owns either or both of these. The **** is occ and slightly more expensive and I think it's 2 pin connectors might be slightly better quality. Thank you in advance and apologies if i have posted this in the wrong thread!

￡29.72  61%OFF | **** 8 Core 7N Single Crystal Copper Cable Taiwan Import 2.5/3.5/4.4mm Balanced Cable With MMCX Connector For KZAS10 ZS10 ZST



￡25.78  73%OFF | OFHC 24 AWG 6N High Purity Copper Cable 2.5/3.5/4.4mm Balanced Cable With MMCX/2PIN/QDC For BL-03 BLON ZS10 PRO ZSX C12 BA5


----------



## superuser1

prionsarebad said:


> After purchasing several upgrade cables, including the CEMA RX series, I have come to the conclusion that pure copper is my personal preference (because i prefer Nicehck C16-3 to the CEMA RX).
> 
> With that in mind there are a couple of examples due to go on sale soon on AE. I would like to purchase one of them and I was wondering if anyone owns either or both of these. The **** is occ and slightly more expensive and I think it's 2 pin connectors might be slightly better quality. Thank you in advance and apologies if i have posted this in the wrong thread!
> 
> ...


You should take the links out as they point to one of the banned seller. Having said that i think the litz cable would be a better choice.. the 2nd one though the cable is a little stiff as it uses 24 AWG


----------



## prionsarebad (Jan 5, 2020)

Oops. Sorry, didn't know there was such thing as a banned seller. Could you link me please to a list or names so I don't do that again. Thanks!

Edit: don't worry, just found reference. Slightly confused now since I have used that banned seller without problem.




superuser1 said:


> You should take the links out as they point to one of the banned seller. Having said that i think the litz cable would be a better choice.. the 2nd one though the cable is a little stiff as it uses 24 AWG


----------



## superuser1

prionsarebad said:


> Oops. Sorry, didn't know there was such thing as a banned seller. Could you link me please to a list or names so I don't do that again. Thanks!
> 
> Edit: don't worry, just found reference. Slightly confused now since I have used that banned seller without problem.


I have too but as long as we are on this site we gotta follow the rules here. It up to you if you want to continue using the seller... just no names or links or references on this site is what i am given to understand.


----------



## prionsarebad

Having ordered the CEMA electro acousti RX series, I would like to order one of his pure copper cables. There are two in my price range....the 4 core RS series or the 4 core up-occ CS series which is twice the price. Hakuzen says the cheaper cable isn't very strong. My question is whether CS is really worth twice the price of RS? I will be pairing with Moondrop Kxxs. Thanks.


----------



## muths66

prionsarebad said:


> Having ordered the CEMA electro acousti RX series, I would like to order one of his pure copper cables. There are two in my price range....the 4 core RS series or the 4 core up-occ CS series which is twice the price. Hakuzen says the cheaper cable isn't very strong. My question is whether CS is really worth twice the price of RS? I will be pairing with Moondrop Kxxs. Thanks.


I have RX series not bad and other higher price one


----------



## subwoof3r

May someone please remember me what means "Ag" and "Au".
I think "Ag" is silver but what about "Au" ?


----------



## superuser1

subwoof3r said:


> May someone please remember me what means "Ag" and "Au".
> I think "Ag" is silver but what about "Au" ?


----------



## subwoof3r

superuser1 said:


>


ah yes! completely forgot that, thanks


----------



## Krassi (Jan 17, 2020)

Argentum and Aurum.. thats why in the bond movie Goldfinger the epic best bond villain ever was named Aurik Goldfinger (Gerd Fröbe was the best! and funny i didnt realize that as a kid that his name has something to do with gold )


----------



## robbomanx2

Hi all,

I own a trn v90 and I'm looking to buy a upgrade cable. I don't like the earhooks from the original cable. 

I'm looking for a all black cable, 2 pin 0.78mm, no cable slider, and light weight. 

I found this one from Nicehck: 
https://a.aliexpress.com/_U0bjY

Would this be a nice cable? I have looked at the specs and can't find it it's a 2 pin 0.75mm or 0.78mm. my trn v90 connector holes are not that tight so I want a 0.78 2pin


----------



## hakuzen

robbomanx2 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I own a trn v90 and I'm looking to buy a upgrade cable. I don't like the earhooks from the original cable.
> 
> ...


i think yes, it is a decent cable (050 in my list). if you get it at main nicehck shop, the price is even a bit lower (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889396437.html).
you can also check cable 063 (16 cores) or even cable 061 (8 cores like 050, different jack, worse conductivity), and 053 (black color version).
all them use 0.78mm pins. anyway, i've not found much difference between 0.75 and 0.78mm, except in a very few cases.


----------



## hemipowered007

I was looking at purchasing the isn cable, either c16/h16/c4/s4, for my audiosense t800, any idea which would pair best?


----------



## skypablo

hemipowered007 said:


> I was looking at purchasing the isn cable, either c16/h16/c4/s4, for my audiosense t800, any idea which would pair best?


With S4 T800 are great. Definition and no sibilance at all


----------



## hemipowered007

skypablo said:


> With S4 T800 are great. Definition and no sibilance at all



Is there supposed to be an actual difference between the s4 and s16 besides gauge and core count?


----------



## hakuzen

hemipowered007 said:


> I was looking at purchasing the isn cable, either c16/h16/c4/s4, for my audiosense t800, any idea which would pair best?


i only own c16 from these, and haven't got T800; but i'd bet for s4 between them.
some head-fiers have told me wonders about cable 175 of my list and T800. it's my all terrain fav, but i've received vogue series cables from effect audio and i'm full of expectations with them


----------



## hemipowered007

hakuzen said:


> i only own c16 from these, and haven't got T800; but i'd bet for s4 between them.
> some head-fiers have told me wonders about cable 175 of my list and T800. it's my all terrain fav, but i've received vogue series cables from effect audio and i'm full of expectations with them



Is cable 175 the s4? I am on my phone and the new headfi screws up some pages and i cant get the full info anymore on my phone.


----------



## hemipowered007

Nevermind figured it out, 200 dollars is vastly more than im looking to spend but that cable surely looks amazing. Unfortunately the s4 i cannot find in mmcx 4.4, so looks like s16, which i did see another person with the t800 had before. Thanks


----------



## thejoneser

Maybe a dumb question, but is there a sonic advantage to ordering an 8 core cable vs 4 core?  I'm specifically looking at cables 173/174. Does an increase in number of cores affect the sound?  And BTW, thank you so much, hakuzen, for this amazing resource!


----------



## muths66

thejoneser said:


> Maybe a dumb question, but is there a sonic advantage to ordering an 8 core cable vs 4 core?  I'm specifically looking at cables 173/174. Does an increase in number of cores affect the sound?  And BTW, thank you so much, hakuzen, for this amazing resource!


i nv had a 4cores only 1 from electro. Rest of the cables from them i had is 8cores and i love it.


----------



## hakuzen

thejoneser said:


> Maybe a dumb question, but is there a sonic advantage to ordering an 8 core cable vs 4 core?  I'm specifically looking at cables 173/174. Does an increase in number of cores affect the sound?  And BTW, thank you so much, hakuzen, for this amazing resource!


thank you for your appreciation.

i prefer 8 cores to keep total output impedance lower
"low resistance is important to get minimum total output impedance (of course, if your source output impedance is high, total will be high regardless of cable resistance), in order to minimize tonal alterations when using iems with balanced armatures.
it's also convenient to decrease attenuation and to increase damping factor and efficiency."

but i don't think you'll get noticeable sound difference with the 8 cores version vs 4 cores one of the same cable, except in extreme impedance circumstances.
so you can go for 173 (4 cores) safely, no sound disadvantages. that cable is very special and unique, in my opinion.


----------



## CoiL

@hakuzen , can you please recommend me ~30$ copper cable with small/short mmcx connectors and impedance around 0.3Ohm max? 
I need it for me BIE/IT01 metamorphosis 
My own copper litz cable is still unfinished since I don`t have some specific tools atm to finish PO sleeving. Otherwise would use my own DIY cable.
IT01 stock cable is now rubbish (stiff, springy, sleeving cracked), otherwise great low impedance/sounding.


----------



## hakuzen

CoiL said:


> @hakuzen , can you please recommend me ~30$ copper cable with small/short mmcx connectors and impedance around 0.3Ohm max?
> I need it for me BIE/IT01 metamorphosis
> My own copper litz cable is still unfinished since I don`t have some specific tools atm to finish PO sleeving. Otherwise would use my own DIY cable.
> IT01 stock cable is now rubbish (stiff, springy, sleeving cracked), otherwise great low impedance/sounding.


i don't know which length/size of mmcx plugs would be short/small enough for you. i don't remember a good one having extra short/small mmcx plugs now.

anyway, suggestion for everybody asking for my favorite cables in a budget segment:
surf on the comments, pics, and links sections, in order, clicking on links to check approximated price, till you reach your budget. the first ones you find will be my favorites.


----------



## imackler

Hello! Can had one or two ohm impedance to an existing iem cable by adding an extension? like a 3' 3.5mm m on end, f on the other? Thanks!


----------



## dh0licious

Hello!

I have mainly KZ's (ZS10 Pro and CCA C12, so TypeC connector). I'm wondering if you can suggest a good balanced cable (8 or 16 core) under US$25. I have the Tripowin Zonie 16 core on the way but looking at getting a few more with low resistance from your list.

Do you have plans to measure any KB-EAR or Tripowin headphones? I haven't seen them mentioned on this thread, I hope they're not a banned word. If so please let me know


----------



## dh0licious

@hakuzen I'm looking for a 2.5mm to male to 2.5mm female (yes 2.5mm) L-plug so I can stop putting strain on my headphone jack with my straight cable. But couldn't find any you tested.

Do these sorts of plugs exists, and if so do you recommend any?


----------



## hakuzen

dh0licious said:


> @hakuzen I'm looking for a 2.5mm to male to 2.5mm female (yes 2.5mm) L-plug so I can stop putting strain on my headphone jack with my straight cable. But couldn't find any you tested.
> 
> Do these sorts of plugs exists, and if so do you recommend any?


yes, these plugs do exist.
for example:
male:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32949530833.html, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32996114275.html, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33055224902.html,
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32991373708.html, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32816595418.html, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000851167655.html, etc
but you'd have to buy wire, female 2.5mm socket (lots of them also available), and DIY

the easier way is to find a seller who makes the cable for you. in that case, my recommendation is CEMA electro acousti shop at aliexpress.
you'd have to message to the seller to ask him to make the cable for you, mentioning "head-fi" or "hakuzen" to get a discount; then order the desired components (the plugs are quite better than the above ones, but more expensive), but don't pay it, wait for the seller adjust the price to reflect work job price and discount, and then pay it.
i suggest these components:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33054928246.html (2.5mm male L)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007394708.html (2.5mm female, excellent quality, let the seller to choose the hole width, depending of the chosen wire)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000910527446.html (wire, a cable using this wire is in my list; choose your length; if it is not a round number, you'll have to indicate it to the seller).


----------



## dh0licious (May 18, 2020)

hakuzen said:


> yes, these plugs do exist.
> for example:
> male:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32949530833.html, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32996114275.html, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33055224902.html,
> ...



Thanks @hakuzen really informative. I have now spoken to CEMA electro acousti shop.

Just one question. He said the smallest length he can do is 5cm, however I was hoping to have no cable at all, so it looks something like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32865122372.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.18034c4dK8Hvvj

Is that possible? If not I will ask them to make with the shortest cable, but do you think it's safe to go lower than 5cm?


----------



## hakuzen

oh, didn't notice you wanted such a short extension, my bad.

i searched in the past for a long 2.5mm extension (around 3.5m) for headphones, and also for a quality L 2.5mm plug adapter to take care of the sources socket (too many plugs/unplugs when measuring or when doing cables comparisons). at last, had to DIY the long extension, and didn't find a quality 2.5 to 2.5 L adapter.

explain your needs to the seller. being a so short adapter, you might let the seller to choose the wire and maybe you won't have to pay for the wire; anyway, the price of the wire i suggested is tiny compared to the cost of the plugs and hand work.

you have to make the order to let the seller know which components you pretend to use. don't pay it, because the seller will calculate the final price, based on the components + hand work - discount. if you don't agree with the final price, you can discuss it and/or you can cancel the order, and maybe choose other components for a new try.


----------



## dh0licious (May 18, 2020)

hakuzen said:


> oh, didn't notice you wanted such a short extension, my bad.
> 
> i searched in the past for a long 2.5mm extension (around 3.5m) for headphones, and also for a quality L 2.5mm plug adapter to take care of the sources socket (too many plugs/unplugs when measuring or when doing cables comparisons). at last, had to DIY the long extension, and didn't find a quality 2.5 to 2.5 L adapter.
> 
> ...



*For anyone else looking for a L-plug 2.5mm male to 2.5mm female adapter to avoid putting strain on your straight cables:*

I msg'd 'CEMA Electro acousti Store' (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000061.1.18741e3204CoWj) through Message Centre and advised I want the following assembled into a short 2.5mm male to 2.5mm female adapter.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33054928246.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007394708.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000910527446.html
I told him i want the cable to be as short as possible which he advised is 5cm and to also apply any Head-Fi/Hakuzen discount. The final price he quoted was US$23.8 + shipping - I think that's a great price considering they will assemble all the above parts for you and these 3 parts have @hakuzen seal of approval . Do consider this option if you're looking for the same as it seems such an adapter does not exist right now out of the box.


----------



## hakuzen

dh0licious said:


> *For anyone else looking for a L-plug 2.5mm male to 2.5mm female adapter to avoid putting strain on your straight cables:*
> 
> I msg'd 'CEMA Electro acousti Store' (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000061.1.18741e3204CoWj) through Message Centre and advised I want the following assembled into a short 2.5mm male to 2.5mm female adapter.
> 
> ...


thank you so much for resuming the hint! i'm very glad you got it, these guys have saved me when troubled many times. i searched for the ready made adapter even in the biggest market in the world (chinese market) with no success.
and 3.5mm L adapter.. i only found crap, very low quality adapters which degraded sound


----------



## dh0licious

hakuzen said:


> thank you so much for resuming the hint! i'm very glad you got it, these guys have saved me when troubled many times. i searched for the ready made adapter even in the biggest market in the world (chinese market) with no success.
> and 3.5mm L adapter.. i only found crap, very low quality adapters which degraded sound



I'm excited to receive it, it's so cool that we can get custom cables and adapters made so cheaply in Aliexpress with good quality components - what a great find.


----------



## prionsarebad

What number is the kbear/nicehck C4-1 in the list? Thanks.


----------



## hakuzen

prionsarebad said:


> What number is the kbear/nicehck C4-1 in the list? Thanks.


I think none of them are in my list. I'm not going to buy more cables to try, had enough; so if a seller/distributor/particular doesn't send me a cable to measure and try it, it won't appear in the database.


----------



## dh0licious

dh0licious said:


> *For anyone else looking for a L-plug 2.5mm male to 2.5mm female adapter to avoid putting strain on your straight cables:*
> 
> I msg'd 'CEMA Electro acousti Store' (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000061.1.18741e3204CoWj) through Message Centre and advised I want the following assembled into a short 2.5mm male to 2.5mm female adapter.
> 
> ...



And here is what it looks like assembled. Seller sent me a pic;


----------



## Filippo13 (May 25, 2020)

Hi!

I've read and read again the post but I've a question before purchase for you.

Can you tell me what you think about this cable ?
I'm not sure when I see the original price at 200€. I would like a copper ( more bass, less high) with huge soundstage if possible. It's for a ibasso it01

*https://a.aliexpress.com/_d8aJdql*


----------



## RikudouGoku

Filippo13 said:


> Hi!
> 
> I've read and read again the post but I've a question before purchase for you.
> 
> ...


that original price at 200 is complete BS, ignore it.


----------



## Filippo13

RikudouGoku said:


> that original price at 200 is complete BS, ignore it.


And what is your opinion about this cable ? It seem pretty nice but I don't know I hesitate about it. No one have it ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Filippo13 said:


> And what is your opinion about this cable ? It seem pretty nice but I don't know I hesitate about it. No one have it ?


I don't have it. But since you are new (?) into this hobby you probably shouldn't spend much money on cables and more on the iems itself. If you really want a better cable then check out the Faaeal litz cable 
US $14.31 20%OFF | FAAEAL 4Core High Purity Copper cable with 2Pin/MMCX Connector 3.5/2.5/4.4mm Gold-plated plug Earphone Upgrade Cable For TFZ/TRN
https://a.aliexpress.com/_d8Y00rX


----------



## Filippo13

RikudouGoku said:


> I don't have it. But since you are new (?) into this hobby you probably shouldn't spend much money on cables and more on the iems itself. If you really want a better cable then check out the Faaeal litz cable
> US $14.31 20%OFF | FAAEAL 4Core High Purity Copper cable with 2Pin/MMCX Connector 3.5/2.5/4.4mm Gold-plated plug Earphone Upgrade Cable For TFZ/TRN
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_d8Y00rX



I want to spend less of 100€ not more, for sure. 
But I'm newbie with iem but not in audio headphone. I would like to find a great cable for long time. So I prefer directly buy a good one and in few month year eventually an upgrade but not now for sure.


----------



## hakuzen (May 25, 2020)

Filippo13 said:


> Hi!
> 
> I've read and read again the post but I've a question before purchase for you.
> 
> ...


that is cable 165 in my list. it was my first OEM up-occ cable, and i liked it very much. it's a good cable, but it has got same price now than when i purchased it, and the seller is banned and not recommendable at all.
if you are looking for good quality and durable cable under 100, you can find better deals now.
check how the jack was bent in cable 165:

you can find quite better quality jacks in cable 170/171 of my list, for example. the jack in cable 165 costs $2 at china. the jack in cable 170 costs 5 times more, and it is worth it.
cable 170 uses similar wire, oem up-occ copper, but litz version (which i found better).
effect audio maestro (soon in my list), in vogue series, uses multi-size stranded up-occ copper litz, and it is better as well. 

anyway, my experience with most up-occ copper wires is tighter bass perception (and cleaner) than with other copper wires. you should surf through my list deeply, you might find what you want.


----------



## fokta (May 29, 2020)

anyone try this?

*7n OCC plating 24K gold + 0.2% palladium Headset upgrade cable*

always want to owned a palladium material cable...


----------



## hakuzen

fokta said:


> anyone try this?
> 
> *7n OCC plating 24K gold + 0.2% palladium Headset upgrade cable*
> 
> always want to owned a palladium material cable...


i'm going to try it..


----------



## fokta (May 30, 2020)

hakuzen said:


> i'm going to try it..


Hehehe.. I alrd pull the trigger...
But I think I order a bit wrong... I order 8 braid all same composition... supposed to mixed again with silver... just saying

hope delivery didn't take long... current situation, shipment is crazy delay


----------



## adgun

@fokta : please share impression of that cable here later when you received it, thank you.


----------



## muths66

hakuzen said:


> i'm going to try it..


my blueish palladium is on way.Hope is great.


----------



## fokta

adgun said:


> @fokta : please share impression of that cable here later when you received it, thank you.


will do... 


muths66 said:


> my blueish palladium is on way.Hope is great.


Wait... which one? from CEMA?


----------



## muths66

fokta said:


> will do...
> 
> Wait... which one? from CEMA?


yes from cema new arrival


----------



## fokta

muths66 said:


> yes from cema new arrival





this one? 
huaaa... super DOPE... 

my exp will Palladium is composed with Copper... it was exotic sounding... 
but again it was from boutique cable, it was tuned to certain level... 
aghh... too toxic... 

This is what happened when ur daily cable broke down, and need some replacement...


----------



## dh0licious

@hakuzen and @Slater 

Have either of you taken apart / assessed these cables yet?

1) HifiHear 16 core right-angle cable
2) Tripowin Zonie c16 core cable


----------



## Slater

dh0licious said:


> @hakuzen and @Slater
> 
> Have either of you taken apart / assessed these cables yet?
> 
> ...



#1 yes. It’s a great cable, and I have since bought a number of them (all balanced) with mmcx, 2-pin, and QDC.


----------



## dh0licious

Slater said:


> #1 yes. It’s a great cable, and I have since bought a number of them (all balanced) with mmcx, 2-pin, and QDC.



Good to know. I have the HiFiHear in 2.5mm MMCX and QDC too


----------



## Hal Rockwell

Any suggestions for 4pin XLR male to 4pin 2.5mm female adapter?


----------



## deafenears

Hal Rockwell said:


> Any suggestions for 4pin XLR male to 4pin 2.5mm female adapter?


Drop sells one - https://drop.com/buy/drop-4-pin-xlr-to-trrs-adapter


----------



## Hal Rockwell

deafenears said:


> Drop sells one - https://drop.com/buy/drop-4-pin-xlr-to-trrs-adapter



Found something similar on Aliexpress. Looks gorgeous!


----------



## hakuzen

Hal Rockwell said:


> Any suggestions for 4pin XLR male to 4pin 2.5mm female adapter?


I got these:
1- Music Heaven H-NZ140. https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=531398857717&skuId=3168501441103
2- Neutrik XLR4 + EST(Japan)? 2.5mm socket. https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=571836630995

Measured resistance (mΩ, L+ R+ L- R-):
1-  13.3    12.1    12.6    10
2-  13.8    13.1    13.7    13

Music Heaven one is considerably shorter.
Guess the one sold at Drop is the same than Venture Electronics https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963167200.html
You can find number 2 at aliexpress as well: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000760659316.html, or https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32989665875.html, for example; kind of OEM adapter..
Others:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001137937231.html = https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001166339651.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001129170397.html (shorter version of the above)


----------



## Hal Rockwell

hakuzen said:


> I got these:
> 1- Music Heaven H-NZ140. https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=531398857717&skuId=3168501441103
> 2- Neutrik XLR4 + EST(Japan)? 2.5mm socket. https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=571836630995
> 
> ...



Thanks. Got the last one in your post. Looks amazing and the cheapest of the bunch.


----------



## fokta (Jul 30, 2020)

fokta said:


> anyone try this?
> 
> *7n OCC plating 24K gold + 0.2% palladium Headset upgrade cable*
> 
> always want to owned a palladium material cable...





Dark Cable... But focus on Mid/Vocal clarity....
Further impression later

@hakuzen, alrd have cable number for this?


----------



## fokta (Aug 1, 2020)

Resistance 4.4 TRRS
134,9...156,6... 243... 232 mOHM...

Good material...

while waiting my cold brew done... lets enjoy the music

edit: the cable color was unique.. the photo will be different from the original...



The original is more pale...

edit 2 :
found my gold plate cable custom... 
the below cable is the new CEMA, that I told a bit Pale color...


----------



## hakuzen

fokta said:


> Dark Cable... But focus on Mid/Vocal clarity....
> Further impression later
> 
> @hakuzen, alrd have cable number for this?


i got this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001034698284.html 4 cores, 2 cores of same wire than yours, 2 cores of silver plated UP-OCC, 3.5mm plug. it will be cable number 184.
yours, 8 cores of gold+0.2%palladium electroplated copper, could be number 187, if you agree with adding it to the database.
i'm curious about the different resistance measurements, given all 8 cores are identical. maybe you got 4 cores of a kind and 4 cores of different kind?


----------



## fokta

hakuzen said:


> i got this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001034698284.html 4 cores, 2 cores of same wire than yours, 2 cores of silver plated UP-OCC, 3.5mm plug. it will be cable number 184.
> yours, 8 cores of gold+0.2%palladium electroplated copper, could be number 187, if you agree with adding it to the database.
> i'm curious about the different resistance measurements, given all 8 cores are identical. maybe you got 4 cores of a kind and 4 cores of different kind?


please add... Glad to help...
yes, mine is 8 core... if I see by naked eyes, seem all 8 is the same pale Gold... but you can be also right, that inside is different.. 

the Right side seems off quite marginal.. already try using 2 pin to MMCX.. the result not too different.
Sound wise, compare to other cable that I bought, this one is definitely a keeper from beginning.... 
Dark cable that focus on vocal... 
dont mind about the Mid Bass and also not too wide Soundstage...


----------



## grooveriders

How does the thickness and no.of cores affects the sound? Lets say they are 2 cables with the same material and resistance but with different no.of cores and diameter how would it affect the sound?
ie cable 1.more no. of core,smaller diameter vs cable 2. less no.of cores but larger diameter. If both cable have the same total resistance, would they sound identical?


----------



## hakuzen

grooveriders said:


> How does the thickness and no.of cores affects the sound? Lets say they are 2 cables with the same material and resistance but with different no.of cores and diameter how would it affect the sound?
> ie cable 1.more no. of core,smaller diameter vs cable 2. less no.of cores but larger diameter. If both cable have the same total resistance, would they sound identical?


not much difference of sound, if any.
my guesses:  Other considerations about capacitance, geometry, and isolation of cables


----------



## grooveriders

hakuzen said:


> not much difference of sound, if any.
> my guesses:  Other considerations about capacitance, geometry, and isolation of cables


Thanks!


----------



## fokta (Aug 6, 2020)

CEMA (prob) 187...
Alrd 100 Hours Burn in...

At first, this cable sound sig was very focus on Vocal clarity... in time, the a bit smooth Treble become open, still not as spark using pure Silver cable...
This cable is tends more to silver cable attribute...

The black background is comparable to LITZ cable...

edit : regarding the Jack 4.4, and Y-Spilter, wow CEMA really upgrade their quality, the grip, feeling and looks really Premium...
Unfortunately, the MMCX jack, was not better then my other CEMA cable... the MMCX connector felt really stiff... quite concerning if your IEM MMCX female is weak, just my thought...


----------



## grooveriders

Question about cable soldering. I've been taught to "spin" the wire cores into one tight wire before applying tin so only the tip of the inner cores will come into contact with the soldering tin. Is it better to tin the "inner cores" as well or the least contact with the tin is better?


----------



## jorge C

Hello guys! Im new in the forum and kinda new to audiophile things. I actually started some months ago in this world and i wanted to seek advice from you guys:
I bought a month ago a set of fearless audio s8 freedom, in the mail is comming this week a sony s55 walkman, and now im looking for an upgrade cable but i dont know which, i READ all of this thread (several times actually) but im just a musician and music lover, so the meassuring and electricity part is a mistery for me, i just want a better cable cause ive been told the fearless one isnt really good, im between this one: https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/32...a8203140c170cba57-1598280124202-00533-_ePNSNV

And this one:
https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/40...389742a9334e8a1fc-1598279808418-04865-_ePNSNV

I just wouldnt want to spend a lot of money in an 8core one when the caracteristics of my combo wont make a difference with a 4core one. But i would hate to spend some money and get a cable of similiar properties of the fearles audio one. 
Thank you for taking the time to read and for any advises for a begginer fella!


----------



## hakuzen

jorge C said:


> Hello guys! Im new in the forum and kinda new to audiophile things. I actually started some months ago in this world and i wanted to seek advice from you guys:
> I bought a month ago a set of fearless audio s8 freedom, in the mail is comming this week a sony s55 walkman, and now im looking for an upgrade cable but i dont know which, i READ all of this thread (several times actually) but im just a musician and music lover, so the meassuring and electricity part is a mistery for me, i just want a better cable cause ive been told the fearless one isnt really good, im between this one: https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/32887680475.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&af=240682&utm_campaign=240682&aff_platform=portals-tool&utm_medium=cpa&afref=https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/&dp=e4305ffba1d41209bc4eb73d79ae3c6e&cv=47843&mall_affr=pr3&sk=_ePNSNV&aff_trace_key=5b6ea433003a45fa8203140c170cba57-1598280124202-00533-_ePNSNV&terminal_id=ecbb0c8714dc4129897629d9fc53263d&utm_source=admitad&utm_content=47843&aff_request_id=5b6ea433003a45fa8203140c170cba57-1598280124202-00533-_ePNSNV
> 
> And this one:
> ...


both cables will be an upgrade from stock one without a doubt, but i prefer the second one now (175).
also, effect audio vogue grandioso (https://www.effectaudio.com/vogue-series.html) is a breeze, similar to 175 if not better. copper/silver color or black/silver color. it's a bit more expensive than 175, but the 4 cores are thicker (26awg vs 28awg, better conductivity) while the cable being lighter due to the minimal plugs. i'll add all vogue series cables to the database today or tomorrow


----------



## jorge C

hakuzen said:


> both cables will be an upgrade from stock one without a doubt, but i prefer the second one now (175).
> also, effect audio vogue grandioso (https://www.effectaudio.com/vogue-series.html) is a breeze, similar to 175 if not better. copper/silver color or black/silver color. it's a bit more expensive than 175, but the 4 cores are thicker (26awg vs 28awg, better conductivity) while the cable being lighter due to the minimal plugs. i'll add all vogue series cables to the database today or tomorrow



Thanks man! Would there be a difference between 4cores or 8 cores?


----------



## hakuzen

grooveriders said:


> Question about cable soldering. I've been taught to "spin" the wire cores into one tight wire before applying tin so only the tip of the inner cores will come into contact with the soldering tin. Is it better to tin the "inner cores" as well or the least contact with the tin is better?


i'm not an specialist, but think you only need to pre-tin outside the rolled pack to solder easily. all the strands will be connected, because they are together.
another matter is litz (enameled) strands. in this case, the strands are isolated from the others, so you need to completely remove the enameling of every strand first, roll the strands, and pre-tin outside.


----------



## hakuzen (Aug 24, 2020)

jorge C said:


> Thanks man! Would there be a difference between 4cores or 8 cores?


you are welcome.  my guesses: Other considerations about capacitance, geometry, and isolation of cables
edit: you are ok with 4 cores of these cables.
but in the case you use single-ended output with hybrid cable, i recommend 8 cores (to use both materials for audio signal)


----------



## jorge C

hakuzen said:


> you are welcome.  my guesses: Other considerations about capacitance, geometry, and isolation of cables
> edit: you are ok with 4 cores of these cables.
> but in the case you use single-ended output with hybrid cable, i recommend 8 cores (to use both materials for audio signal)


Thanks mate! The vogue series cables are really what i want in terms of looks (so shallow i know haha) bit its almost double the price of cable #175! 
Ill be expecting your report on them to see how well the maestro black fares cause thats around how much i can invest, the high res player was 190dlrs so i dont know about spending more on the cable than on the sony a55 lol. 
Anyways, would that maestro black be superior to the stock fearless audio one? Id hate to pay it and conect it to hear no difference lol!!!


----------



## hakuzen

jorge C said:


> Thanks mate! The vogue series cables are really what i want in terms of looks (so shallow i know haha) bit its almost double the price of cable #175!
> Ill be expecting your report on them to see how well the maestro black fares cause thats around how much i can invest, the high res player was 190dlrs so i dont know about spending more on the cable than on the sony a55 lol.
> Anyways, would that maestro black be superior to the stock fearless audio one? Id hate to pay it and conect it to hear no difference lol!!!


sound differences by using cables are subtle. you get more tonal differences by rolling tips, for example.
some people notice difference, others don't. in my case, i notice differences which are more notable in long sessions, specially with up-occ wires (maestro uses up-occ copper), so i think the improvement is worth it. but it's up to you. read my first post to get my opinion.


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## hakuzen (Sep 1, 2020)

added effect audio vogue series cables to the database. impressed with these ultra light cables.


*230*, *232*, *234*. effect audio vogue series.
these are the budget line from a very reputed brand from Singapore.
links: https://www.effectaudio.com/vogue-series.html







in these models, they also use up-occ litz wires, my fav, but with a more refined geometry and other innovations: triple size of strands into each core, like famous cardas clear light but adding kevlar fibers in the center to improve durability; golden ratio dispersion, which should help to avoid some undesired harmonics; ultraflexi sleeve; very light and ergonomic (flatten surfaces) plugs (jack, termination plugs, and splitter).





i'm going to compare these cables with the equivalent cema electro acousti cables, to check if these innovations make a noticeable improvement.

it is difficult to notice the subtle sound differences between such high quality cables, so it could be bias, but i think there are higher dynamics and very slightly deeper soundstage, blacker background, which helps with imaging, separation, and microdetails. tried with hifiman ananda and moondrop blessing. the new geometry is a success in my opinion.
about resistance and capacitance, these cables (4 cores) are true 26awg per signal, so their conductivity are closer to 8 cores versions of cema cables than to 4 cores versions (28awg), while their parallel capacitance is closer to 4 cores versions, which is great.
i think that cema eagle plugs are higher quality than the minimal versions sported in this vogue series, but the counterpart is that vogue cables result extremely light (check the weight) and comfortable (thanks to the flat surfaces, frequent un/plugging is easier for me; the plastic chin slider does its job).
the cables are very flexible, and didn't notice microphonics.
considering all this, and comparing the prices (remember effect audio makes discounts from time to time), these cables are now my favorites, in par, if not better, than my favorite cema cables.


*234*. ea vogue grandioso upocc cu+ag lz 4c (silv+cop,ea,M)
2 cores of up-occ copper litz + 2 cores of up-occ silver litz, triple-size and golden ratio dispersion, 26AWG per core/signal, woven kevlan fibers inside, ultraflexi (kind of PE?) sheath available colors: transparent sleeve (copper and silver colors), black sleeve for copper cores (black and silver colors).
2.5mm jack, 2pins:.179..202..203..169 mΩ..[15.4g]..81..80 pF..[119cm]
outer diameter: 4.2mm. length from splitter: 39cm.
resistance measurements suggest silver cores are used in left- and right+. not an issue in balanced cables.

perception of tonality is extended, balanced and natural, like with 175. copper helps with bass (impactful, good extension and bass rumble while very well textured), and silver helps with treble (good extension and body, airy and sparkling but keeping naturalness). they are the most neutral and balanced cables i've tried (they don't alter the tonal signature), without loosing detail (all the frequencies along the instruments ringing are perceived even, smooth, no holes nor peaks), thanks to the exceptional soundstage and black background.
i think the way both cables achieve highs preservation is different. guess that AuAg (silver) strands in 175 results brighter than silver strands of 234 if same thickness, while 234 gets same brightness due to the thinner inner strands while controlling undesired harmonics between strands thanks to golden ratio dispersion. but these are pure guessings...
voices, both male (low mids) and female (upper mids), keep a good body; they are not located in front, there is some distance thanks to the deep soundstage, but all the details are preserved and noticed.
very difficult to find differences with 175, but maybe 234 has got a bit higher dynamics, blacker background.

this is my actual *favorite hybrid* cable and favorite absolute cable from all i've tried, together with 175 (cema electro acousti).



















wire comparison with 175 (right). 234 has got thinner sleeve, and thicker wire (due to center kevlar fibers, plus overall thicker wire).
about copper wire, outer strands look similar diameter than strands of 175, inner strands will be thinner. silver strands of 175 are thicker than outer strands of 234, and much thicker than inner strands.







*230*. ea vogue maestro upocc cu lz 4c (copper,ea,M)
4 cores of up-occ copper litz, triple-size and golden ratio dispersion, 26AWG per core/signal, woven kevlan fibers inside, ultraflexi (kind of PE?) sheath available colors: transparent and black.
2.5mm jack, 2pins:.170..182..178..172 mΩ..[14.9g]..80..79 pF..[118cm]
outer diameter: 4.2mm. length from splitter: 38cm.

perception of tonality is balanced and natural, like 171. up-occ wires are more balanced than many other copper cables, because they don't eat the highs. impactful bass, well extended, bass rumble, while well textured and controlled (but not as much as 234). maybe a bit darker, but not much, than 234.
very difficult to find differences with 171. maybe slightly deeper stage and blacker background, but it could be bias..

this is my actual *favorite copper* cable together with 171 (cema electro acousti).


















wire comparison with 171 (right in first pic, left in second pic). 230 has got thinner sleeve, and thicker wire (due to center kevlar fibers, plus overall thicker wire). you can notice some of the thinner inner strands in the second pic.













*232*. ea vogue virtuoso upocc spz lz 4c (silver,ea,M)
4 cores of up-occ silver plated copper litz, triple-size and golden ratio dispersion, 26AWG per core/signal, woven kevlan fibers inside, ultraflexi (kind of PE?) sheath available colors: transparent and black.
2.5mm jack, 2pins:.190..169..169..178 mΩ..[15.1g]..82..81 pF..[118cm]
outer diameter: 4.2mm. length from splitter: 38cm.

perception of tonality is clearly brighter than 230 and 234, due to tighter bass (less bass rumble and extension, but very well textured) and to airier and sparkler upper mids and treble. it's curious that silver plated up-occ copper is way brighter than up-occ pure silver. the result is not as natural as 234 nor 230. maybe because i tested it using an slightly bright DAC+amplifier (xduoo x20) and slightly bright headphones (hifiman ananda), i much prefer 234 and even 230. but this cable can be used with dark combos which like some more treble energy.
soundstage and background noise are in par with other quality up-occ litz wires. upper mids, female voices, look forwarder than in 234 & 230.
i don't own many silver plated cables (not my cup of tea), and didn't compare this cable with 128 (one of the best spc cables i've tested); will do it when i get some more time, but due to quality up-occ wire (stage and background) and lightness, this is my *favorite silver plated copper* cable at this moment. very good for dark combos.


----------



## jorge C

hakuzen said:


> added effect audio vogue series cables to the database. impressed with these ultra light cables.
> 
> 
> *230*, *232*, *234*. effect audio vogue series.
> ...


Great review man! This is so helpful for us mortals with no knowledge of cables and stuff, great work! 
Im gonna be waiting for a discount from effect audio to purchase mine, but i got one last question, ill be using a sony a55 with fearless audio s8f, would that be a dark or bright combo in your opinion?


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## hakuzen (Aug 28, 2020)

jorge C said:


> Great review man! This is so helpful for us mortals with no knowledge of cables and stuff, great work!
> Im gonna be waiting for a discount from effect audio to purchase mine, but i got one last question, ill be using a sony a55 with fearless audio s8f, would that be a dark or bright combo in your opinion?


i don't own sony a55 nor fearless audio s8f, but according to this great review of fearless s8f from @Animagus , guess it's in the neutral or bright side (v-shaped). the stock cable doesn't look bad, but 234 or 175 (up-occ coper and silver hybrid cables), or 230 or 171 (up-occ copper) are good replacement choices.


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## cytoSiN (Sep 28, 2020)

Just cancelled Amazon order of the DD after reading this thread.  Thank you!

But I need a 4.4 adapter to use with Solaris and DX228ex.  Looks like some of the others on here are much lower resistance, will check them out.  And I'm still interested in the Dunu Noble cable, which would solve this problem and seems to have a decent connector, but it's hard to find them (especially used).


----------



## hakuzen

cytoSiN said:


> Just cancelled Amazon order of the DD after reading this thread.  Thank you!
> 
> But I need a 4.4 adapter to use with Solaris and DX228ex.  Looks like some of the others on here are much lower resistance, will check them out.  And I'm still interested in the Dunu Noble cable, which would solve this problem and seems to have a decent connector, but it's hard to find them (especially used).


you are welcome.
remember that you shouldn't use a balanced output (4.4mm) together with a 4.4-male-to-3.5-female adapter and a single-ended cable. it could be dangerous for your player besides of staying with single-ended signals.
if your plan is using 4.4-female-to-2.5-male adapter, to use a 2.5mm balanced output with your 4.4mm cable, or a 4.4-female-to-3.5-male adapter to use a single-ended output with your 4.4mm cable, i'd recommend any of the eac adapters in my list, because of the quality of the plugs (their 4.4mm female plug is the best by far in my inventory) and wires.


----------



## Astray

Hello there! I'm looking for an adapter for my 177 cable. I have some etymotics now but want to use my cable instead of theirs however the existing mmcx plug doesn't fit super well. I think I need 2 right angle MMCX adapters for my cable. I basically want my cable to have similar connectors as here. Any recommendations?


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## hakuzen (Dec 4, 2020)

Astray said:


> Hello there! I'm looking for an adapter for my 177 cable. I have some etymotics now but want to use my cable instead of theirs however the existing mmcx plug doesn't fit super well. I think I need 2 right angle MMCX adapters for my cable. I basically want my cable to have similar connectors as here. Any recommendations?


in order to use your actual quality cable with your etys, a quality adapter is the best solution, without a doubt. the adapter will also be useful to use other cables.
this one, for instance (Haldane shop at aliexpress; maybe you can get better price at taobao, but agent's cut and shipping costs might don't compensate):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001507370795.html
angled adapters, needed for etys






or this one, but the other is shorter and has got proved quality:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000806535130.html


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## Astray

hakuzen said:


> in order to use your actual quality cable with your etys, a quality adapter is the best solution, without a doubt. the adapter will also be useful to use other cables.
> this one, for instance (Haldane shop at aliexpress; maybe you can get better price at taobao, but agent's cut and shipping costs might don't compensate):
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001507370795.html
> angled adapters, needed for etys



The first one looks perfect if a bit pricey. Do you maybe have a taobao link?


----------



## castleofargh

Astray said:


> Hello there! I'm looking for an adapter for my 177 cable. I have some etymotics now but want to use my cable instead of theirs however the existing mmcx plug doesn't fit super well. I think I need 2 right angle MMCX adapters for my cable. I basically want my cable to have similar connectors as here. Any recommendations?


Keep in mind that classic mmcx plugs don't have the plastic ring with the little extruded part to fit in the Etymotic SR and XR series and stop rotation. As a result, I've found that they're more likely to come out when you didn't want them to. The other issue IMO is that I've always inserted and pulled my Etys while turning them to help with the seal and just overall comfort. With non Ety mmcx plugs, the only thing that will turn in the plug itself, not the IEM. it's probably just me, but I find that really inconvenient.


----------



## hakuzen

Astray said:


> The first one looks perfect if a bit pricey. Do you maybe have a taobao link?


i made a quick search at taobao because most adapters found at aliexpress can be found there, but no success this time.
there are many adapters for JH, HD, A2DC, ATH.. but these Etys proprietary mmcx adapters are rare.
so i'd get that haldane adapter. i own several adapters of that exact kind, and love them: the "egger" thick and hard resin is much more resistant than other plastics, conductor material is gold plated beryllium copper, soldered with mundorf supreme alloy (Sn 88.6%, Cu 1.8%, Ag 9.5%, Au 0.1%), supposedly; the fit uses to be tighter than with other plugs (good for secure fit, not so good if you plan to un/plug it repeatedly).


----------



## Hal Rockwell

Any recommended 4.4 male to 2.5 female adapter?


----------



## nabuhodonozor

Are connections in Blon BL-01 same as in 03 ? Just ordered 01's and from what I read cable swap is a must but I'm IEM newbie.
Is NICEHCK considered good cable provider? They have THIS cable that I'm thinking to get with Blons


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## hakuzen (Dec 11, 2020)

Hal Rockwell said:


> Any recommended 4.4 male to 2.5 female adapter?


my take:
- jack adapters (measurements, pics, and links)


nabuhodonozor said:


> Are connections in Blon BL-01 same as in 03 ? Just ordered 01's and from what I read cable swap is a must but I'm IEM newbie.
> Is NICEHCK considered good cable provider? They have THIS cable that I'm thinking to get with Blons


that cable looks good to me for your BLONs, although i haven't tried it. NICEHCK is a good cable provider in my opinion.
check my lists (from the 1st post of this thread), and you'll probably get a better idea of what you can expect.
if i recall it right, BLON BL-03 uses a kind of QDC plug, but with squared rect angles. so some people sanded the sharp angles to use standard QDC terminated cables


----------



## nabuhodonozor

hakuzen said:


> my take:
> - jack adapters (measurements, pics, and links)
> 
> that cable looks good to me for your BLONs, although i haven't tried it. NICEHCK is a good cable provider in my opinion.
> ...



Yeah NX7 i think it's called. Is there higher risk of bending pins when buying just 2 pin cable for those ? Because I feel like buying just 2 pin would be more universal purchase for other IEM's . That cable just went from $15 to $35 btw for some reason hah. Should've bought it


----------



## hakuzen

nabuhodonozor said:


> Yeah NX7 i think it's called. Is there higher risk of bending pins when buying just 2 pin cable for those ? Because I feel like buying just 2 pin would be more universal purchase for other IEM's . That cable just went from $15 to $35 btw for some reason hah. Should've bought it


yeah, NX7 termination, thanks. the problem with protruding 2pins termination and BLON NX7 or QDC sockets (protruding female) is that connection wouldn't be as secured (could get un-plugged easier); it shouldn't be a big issue at home, though, and 2pins version of that cable is not much protruding.
you can wait for next sale of the cable (soon), or check the actual price of the same cable in other shops at aliexpress


----------



## Astray

castleofargh said:


> Keep in mind that classic mmcx plugs don't have the plastic ring with the little extruded part to fit in the Etymotic SR and XR series and stop rotation. As a result, I've found that they're more likely to come out when you didn't want them to. The other issue IMO is that I've always inserted and pulled my Etys while turning them to help with the seal and just overall comfort. With non Ety mmcx plugs, the only thing that will turn in the plug itself, not the IEM. it's probably just me, but I find that really inconvenient.


So I finally got the Haldane adapters today that were recommended to me and you might excited to learn that these adapters actually do have the little plastic piece that extends out and locks into the etymotics pretty well. I found no change in how I adjust the IEMs while trying to get a comfortable fit at all. Really the only hang up on them should be the price, they should not be this expensive for what they are to be honest but they're the only good option around.


----------



## hakuzen

i also got same adapters, in order to try and measure when using different cables with etymotic er2se (and er4xr if i ever get them..)


----------



## Anshin

This seems like a rebrand of cable 052. Someone correct me if I'm wrong 

Ak 8 Core Tin Vergulde Koperen Kabel 2.5/3.5/4.4Mm Gebalanceerde Kabel Oortelefoon Upgrade Kabel Met Mmcx/2Pin Voor Zsn Zsx ZS10 Trn X6 C12|Oortelefoon| - AliExpress


----------



## hakuzen

yup, it's cable 052. oem, many rebrands. nice to see it's already on sale. pretty ones


----------



## John Massaria

hakuzen said:


> yup, it's cable 052. oem, many rebrands. nice to see it's already on sale. pretty ones


hakuzen- can I ask what XLR wires you have tested if any? I did a small review comparison of XLR- would love to know how you can possibly compare so many cables that is quiet amazing and I thank you!

Can I ask- whats your thoughts on this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001218957136.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.6b694c4dBi2Evl






Thank you again! I know latelty you are loving the litz cable by effect audio and how you might compare the two?


----------



## hakuzen

John Massaria said:


> hakuzen- can I ask what XLR wires you have tested if any? I did a small review comparison of XLR- would love to know how you can possibly compare so many cables that is quiet amazing and I thank you!
> 
> Can I ask- whats your thoughts on this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001218957136.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.6b694c4dBi2Evl
> 
> ...


thanks for your appreciation.
i guess you mean cables with XLR jack (XLR 4 pole, or dual XLR 3). the only source with such output in my inventory is THX AAA 789 headphone amplifier (balanced output, XLR 4); most of my sources are 2.5mm/3.5mm. purchasing a pair of quality XLR 4 to 2.5mm was my solution, rather than buying new XLR 4 ended cables. i haven't bought any of these, and haven't tried the cable of your link with any jack either. so i can't compare it. i'm generally satisfied with purchases at lunashops, but i prefer better guarantee and trusted quality from other shops now. 
for my Ananda, i'm happy enough with cable 175, 2.5mm jack, and the adapter when plugging it to THX 789. iirc, there are comments about this kind of adapters in this thread or in cables thread; got mines at taobao, but guess you can find good ones at Haldane shop in aliexpress. 

when i get time, i'll add the CEMA electro acousti silver+gold+palladium alloy cable to my database, comparing it to my actual favorites. it will be cable 195 you can talk with the seller if you need XLR 4 jack for any of their cables.
also, cable 188 (super copper) is pendent.


----------



## John Massaria (Jan 17, 2021)

do you suggest any links to your two tops? actual favorites. it will be cable 195 you can talk with the seller if you need XLR 4 jack for any of their cables.
also, cable 188


----------



## hakuzen

my actual favorites are those showed first in "Pics, comments, and links" sections; you can find their links there.

195 (ag+au+pa alloy) and 188 ("super" copper) are not in the database yet, because i haven't tried nor measured them; so i haven't rated them either.

my pendent cables are:
184 eac AuPa0.2%PlatCu+spupocc 4c eag,  Au+Pa(0.2%) plated OCC copper litz + silver plated UP-OCC copper litz PE sheath
    link:    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001034698284.html
188 eac super upocclz 4c eagle blue, frozen UP-OCC copper litz, blue PE sheath
    link:    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000516867747.html
195 eac occAgAuPa 4c eagle, OCC+Silver+Gold+Palladium alloy
    link:    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000770132118.html

please forgive the delay. madness here..


----------



## SenorChang8

Coincidentally I’m waiting for 188 to arrive. Looking forward to some thick copper!


----------



## Anshin

Anshin said:


> This seems like a rebrand of cable 052. Someone correct me if I'm wrong
> 
> Ak 8 Core Tin Vergulde Koperen Kabel 2.5/3.5/4.4Mm Gebalanceerde Kabel Oortelefoon Upgrade Kabel Met Mmcx/2Pin Voor Zsn Zsx ZS10 Trn X6 C12|Oortelefoon| - AliExpress




I just asked the shop whether they sell the cable with a nickel/rhodium plated jack or the gold version. They informed me that they aren't sending out the nickel/rhodium versions of the cable.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

CEMA PS, would be interesting know yours feedback... I’m considering also Palace series or Palace Class but I don’t understand differences


----------



## Hal Rockwell

Any good adapters to go from pentaconn female to 1/4' male?


----------



## fokta

Hi.. been a while...
Also looking for the CEMA palace cable impression...

planning to make IC cable from it..


----------



## hakuzen

Xinlisupreme said:


> CEMA PS, would be interesting know yours feedback... I’m considering also Palace series or Palace Class but I don’t understand differences


these are hypothesis:
different wire manufacturers?
palace series uses a kind of oem up-occ wire, probably made in taiwan, in line with my favorite cables from CEMA.
palace class uses different kind of wire and sheath.



fokta said:


> Also looking for the CEMA palace cable impression...



yea, it's been a while, and i haven't tried that cable. zero time due to my job, mainly.
i could measure it at least, and add it to the database, together with some pics. but about sound differences, i should unblock my ears (recurrent wax blocking) and train them before making sound impressions.
forgive me, i'll try to find the time to do this soon


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Probably the worst measuing cables in the history of headphones are the stock HD 25 steel cables. Not only do they measure up to 8 ohms, but both sides of the cable aren't even close to equal. Capacitance is huge also.

If there was ever a case for aftermarket cables, the HD 25 is the poster child.

That said, the HD 25 is designed for (real) DJ use and it seems durability won over ultimate sound quality. I can attest that they sound better than they have any right to. Member @jfunk has posted that it looks like the most recent version have gone to copper cables.


----------



## doctorjuggles

Agreed -  HD25 is the only headphone I tolerate in my record bag - it's a phenomenal DJ headphone and almost as iconic as the 1210s IMO


----------



## gimmeheadroom

What's a 1210?  I don't know about that one.


----------



## doctorjuggles

gimmeheadroom said:


> What's a 1210?  I don't know about that one.


Technics 1210s, the turntables - no decent club on earth would be without one until the 2000s when CDJs started taking off (and even today many still have them)


----------



## gimmeheadroom

doctorjuggles said:


> Technics 1210s, the turntables - no decent club on earth would be without one until the 2000s when CDJs started taking off (and even today many still have them)


Oh sure, ok. I couldn't remember a headphone with that number.


----------



## deafenears

hakuzen said:


> *12*. dd mini angled...........................52.4...39.4...39.4...39.9
> ......dd mini angled 2.5-4.4...............52.5...44.9...51.8...68.3
> the 2.5mm socket is like those used into sources' cases, so expect longer durability (time will tell).
> but conductivity is very poor (the worst by far). the culprit is the flexible gold plated ribbon/pcb used to connect the contacts (thin and not great material probably). the resistance is the same as some 1.2m cables (+plugs), go figure.


Any chance of getting the newer adapters from ddHiFi reviewed?




Then there's also the mark II variants:


----------



## hakuzen

deafenears said:


> Any chance of getting the newer adapters from ddHiFi reviewed?
> 
> 
> 
> Then there's also the mark II variants:


i won't buy them (i'm plenty of good quality adapters), so the only chance i measure them is the manufacturer or a distributor or a particular sends them to me


----------



## fokta

175 reborn, the blueish...


----------



## fokta (Jul 10, 2021)

16 Braids 26 AWG M2M 4.4 from CEMA Cable.






31,7...20,8... 21,7... 20,5 :


----------



## hakuzen (Jul 11, 2021)

fokta said:


> 16 Braids 26 AWG M2M 4.4 from CEMA Cable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nice resistance measurements, the adapter looks brilliant


----------



## fokta (Jul 13, 2021)

Local custom M2M

16 braids UP-OCC Copper Litz Cable 28 AWG

33,5... 9,7... 12,75... 9,5


----------



## PierPP

Do we know any tech specs about this cable? 
Thanks 




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002058647720.html


----------



## Xinlisupreme

@PierPP you’ve a big monkey on your shoulders 🦧


----------



## PierPP

Xinlisupreme said:


> @PierPP you’ve a big monkey on your shoulders 🦧



My monkey needs to have some knowledge to do its choices 
... and can a man in 2021 live with only 2 IEM cables?


----------



## eloelo

I see this part
"3. Calculate section of each signal. SignalSection = NumberOfCoresPerSignal * CoreSection. If your wire is 4 cores, each signal will use 1 core (2 for ground); if your wire is 8 cores, 2 cores are used per signal. Let's imagine this is your case. SignalSection = 2 * 0.1 = 0.2 mm2 (which is equivalent to 0.51mm diameter = 24AWG)."

What if the wire is 2 cores?


----------



## omegaorgun

Good cable to tame upper mid bite and treble? 2-pin.


----------



## hakuzen

eloelo said:


> I see this part
> "3. Calculate section of each signal. SignalSection = NumberOfCoresPerSignal * CoreSection. If your wire is 4 cores, each signal will use 1 core (2 for ground); if your wire is 8 cores, 2 cores are used per signal. Let's imagine this is your case. SignalSection = 2 * 0.1 = 0.2 mm2 (which is equivalent to 0.51mm diameter = 24AWG)."
> 
> What if the wire is 2 cores?


if the wire has only 2 cores, it's a mono (not stereo) wire. you need 3 signals minimum for stereo sound: left, right, and ground. if you get stereo sound when using that cable, then there are 3 "cores" inside (2 cores -left, right- plus jacket/mesh carrying ground), or 4 cores inside (two separated cores into each external "core"). in the case of using metallic jacket for ground, it's difficult to calculate the equivalent section for ground (you'd need to know the number of threads of the jacket, and the section of each thread). 


omegaorgun said:


> Good cable to tame upper mid bite and treble? 2-pin.


to tame upper mids and treble, i'd better try rolling tips or equalizing. quite more effective. if you want some little help from the cable, you should go for copper cables (not silver plated copper nor silver). search in my list for copper cables where there are comments like "dark" or "bassy" (upper mids and treble are less present in comparison with lows and mids).


----------



## eloelo

hakuzen said:


> if the wire has only 2 cores, it's a mono (not stereo) wire. you need 3 signals minimum for stereo sound: left, right, and ground. if you get stereo sound when using that cable, then there are 3 "cores" inside (2 cores -left, right- plus jacket/mesh carrying ground), or 4 cores inside (two separated cores into each external "core"). in the case of using metallic jacket for ground, it's difficult to calculate the equivalent section for ground (you'd need to know the number of threads of the jacket, and the section of each thread).
> 
> to tame upper mids and treble, i'd better try rolling tips or equalizing. quite more effective. if you want some little help from the cable, you should go for copper cables (not silver plated copper nor silver). search in my list for copper cables where there are comments like "dark" or "bassy" (upper mids and treble are less present in comparison with lows and mids).


Thanks! When a seller says 2 core coaxial, I assume it is using the jacket for ground?


----------



## hakuzen (Sep 10, 2021)

eloelo said:


> Thanks! When a seller says 2 core coaxial, I assume it is using the jacket for ground?


i guess so. traditional coaxial cables only carry one signal (1 core) and metallic jacket is used for ground, so they are mono signal


----------



## Hal Rockwell

Are there any recommended adapters from 4pin xlr female to 2.5 male and 4pin xlr to pentaconn male?


----------



## hakuzen

Hal Rockwell said:


> Are there any recommended adapters from 4pin xlr female to 2.5 male and 4pin xlr to pentaconn male?


neutrik styled should be decent enough, but haven't tried them (i got only xlr4 male to 2.5 female ones). saw them in aliexpress audio stores


----------



## 14christ

fokta said:


> 175 reborn, the blueish...


Who made this cable, what are the specs, and where can I purchase a 2 pin 4.4mm version of it?

Thanks


----------



## fokta (Sep 16, 2021)

14christ said:


> Who made this cable, what are the specs, and where can I purchase a 2 pin 4.4mm version of it?
> 
> Thanks


This from CEMA at Aliexpress, the link is here

For me, I buy the cable, and braid locally... 
its the same...


----------



## 14christ

fokta said:


> This from CEMA at Aliexpress, the link is here
> 
> For me, I buy the cable, and braid locally...
> its the same...


Do you do the soldering as well and if so what type of solder do you use?


----------



## fokta

14christ said:


> Do you do the soldering as well and if so what type of solder do you use?


nope, I send to local cable brand, who accepts making custom cable... 
if I see in his web, his selling Oyaide solder product, so I assumed he used that


----------



## randomnin (Sep 23, 2021)

randomnin said:


> My multimeter only measures with a precision of 0.1Ohm, so this is as good as it gets. A rough reference, I guess.
> 
> € 2,13
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bETxrqOk
> ...


I bought the middle one again recently ( https://a.aliexpress.com/_vdycKu ; 053. on hakuzen's list), this time MMCX, for my new Etys. Measures only *0.6Ohm*. Which is twice better than the Etys original cable. But six times worse than that same cable I bought two years ago. The new one is also more supple and doesn't remember shape like the old, hard one, which makes the new one better in that sense. The old one still works fine, but remeasuring its resistance increased to about 0.4Ohm after two years of almost daily use and slight abuse. Not really audible, though.

To sum it up, it seems like 053. isn't the best price-resistance combo available anymore, though I'd like to see more data from other recent purchases.


----------



## eloelo

Hi, I was wondering if I should be concerned if I find a current leak on the left channel of the cable. Connecting my ammeter from L- pin to L- on the plug to measure impedance, it shows 0.20ohm. Then connecting L+ pin to L- on the plug shows 2 mega ohms, which indicates current leak right? Is this current too small to matter?


----------



## Reniflex

Hi, As anyone have good measurements for ISN cables ? Im struggling to find some for the S8 and S4. I hesitate between S8, S16 and S4 and I wanna know If the additional costs are worth it in therms of resistance numbers.


----------



## Dynamo5561 (Dec 13, 2021)

Here are some measurements from me:


Resistance in milliohmCapacitance in picofaradLinkNotesHakugei Little Harmony Cable (3,5)250​103​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002362429239.htmlVery nice built qualityTraillii Cable (2,5)90​80​Odin Cable (4,4)167​57​Purple Cable (3,5)130​184​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002213299475.htmlA bit on the heavy sidePurple Cable (2,5)105​133​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002213299475.htmlA bit on the heavy sideJcally EP05 Cable (3,5)280​112​Hakugei Ancient Great Forest Cable (2,5)115​70​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005001940676478.htmlFeels a bit stickyOpenHeart 8 core silver plated (2,5)85​150​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002627350236.htmlNot the most flexible cableOpenHeart 8 core silver plated (4,4)85​150​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002627350236.htmlNot the most flexible cableHakugei Great Harmony Cable (2,5mm)130​150​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001040630053.htmlQuite thick, but very light and flexible, perfect for stationary listeningHakugei Great Harmony Cable (3,5mm)110​130​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001040630053.htmlQuite thick, but very light and flexible, perfect for stationary listening

I don't actually care much about capacitance as it is neglectible in my oppinion on such small cables. That's why I didn't measure exactly how long they are. They are all specified as 1,2m cables.


----------



## Soprana

Hi,I am looking for an adapter for my HM-901S 3.5mm male balanced to 2.5mm female balanced.


----------



## hakuzen

Dynamo5561 said:


> Here are some measurements from me:
> 
> 
> Resistance in milliohmCapacitance in picofaradLinkNotesHakugei Little Harmony Cable (3,5)250​103​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002362429239.htmlVery nice built qualityTraillii Cable (2,5)90​80​Odin Cable (4,4)167​57​Purple Cable (3,5)130​184​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002213299475.htmlA bit on the heavy sidePurple Cable (2,5)105​133​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002213299475.htmlA bit on the heavy sideJcally EP05 Cable (3,5)280​112​Hakugei Ancient Great Forest Cable (2,5)115​70​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005001940676478.htmlFeels a bit stickyOpenHeart 8 core silver plated (2,5)85​150​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002627350236.htmlNot the most flexible cableOpenHeart 8 core silver plated (4,4)85​150​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002627350236.htmlNot the most flexible cableHakugei Great Harmony Cable (2,5mm)incominghttps://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001040630053.htmlHakugei Great Harmony Cable (3,5mm)incominghttps://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001040630053.html
> ...


niceee, thanks!


Soprana said:


> Hi,I am looking for an adapter for my HM-901S 3.5mm male balanced to 2.5mm female balanced.


if you are into ultra short angled adapters, i'd probably go for this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003030895753.html





if you are into wired adapters, the quality of that wire could be a factor, depending of the quality of the wire in your cables.


----------



## ArkNerevar

@hakuzen , can you provide any info on this CEMA cable 22AWG , specifically the silver one, it makes the bold claim that it is pure silver and 22AWG, extremely interested in it if thats true, thanks.


----------



## Soprana

hakuzen said:


> niceee, thanks!
> 
> if you are into ultra short angled adapters, i'd probably go for this:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003030895753.html
> ...


These this adapter that I took as well as the Audio TRI HIFI.
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005002663901565.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.1a266c37dyI1XA




Thanks Hakuzen


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Have you guys measured fibre optic cables?

I noticed the new one I have sounds much better than the last.


----------



## hakuzen

ArkNerevar said:


> @hakuzen , can you provide any info on this CEMA cable 22AWG , specifically the silver one, it makes the bold claim that it is pure silver and 22AWG, extremely interested in it if thats true, thanks.


i don't own any of them. anyway, i doubt it is pure silver wire. 22awg of silver wire would be more expensive than that.
besides, it says "Pure silver was plated by 7n frozen OCC with 140 cores per share"; guess they mean silver plated OCC (copper).
resistance will be very low in both cables, though


----------



## hakuzen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Have you guys measured fibre optic cables?
> 
> I noticed the new one I have sounds much better than the last.


fiber optic cables are meant for digital signal transmission. in my opinion, if the cable allows enough velocity and there are low amount of errors due to outside interferences, there shouldn't be any sound differences. of course, fiber optic is the best for digital transmission; fastest, no outside interferences


----------



## ArkNerevar

hakuzen said:


> i doubt it is pure silver wire


I see, thats helpful ty.

They also have this warring states red rabbit cable, claims to be 27AWG pure single crystal silver and frozen, Ive been looking at it and your cable 174, this warring states one has slightly better AWG (27 to 28) and is just silver (so they say) no gold and has cryo treatment, its also a bit cheaper, possibly beause of the lack of gold, can you provide any info on this warring states one? thanks.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 21, 2021)

hakuzen said:


> fiber optic cables are meant for digital signal transmission. in my opinion, if the cable allows enough velocity and there are low amount of errors due to outside interferences, there shouldn't be any sound differences. of course, fiber optic is the best for digital transmission; fastest, no outside interferences


There seems to be different materials used in fibre. Glass or plastic, perhaps? I guess my other cable isn't as good as my new one because it's allowing outside interference to harm the digital audio connection or maybe its fibre is plastic and not glass?


----------



## hakuzen

ArkNerevar said:


> They also have this warring states red rabbit cable, claims to be 27AWG pure single crystal silver and frozen, Ive been looking at it and your cable 174, this warring states one has slightly better AWG (27 to 28) and is just silver (so they say) no gold and has cryo treatment, its also a bit cheaper, possibly beause of the lack of gold, can you provide any info on this warring states one? thanks.


cable 174 is around 20% more expensive than that warring states cable while being slightly thinner, due to the used wire. i don't know if the 1% gold in the alloy justifies that difference, or just the different manufacturer has got different prices. they say that red rabbit uses frozen 6n single crystal sterling silver. the wire of 174 was made by another manufacturer who was using UP-OCC wires in other cables, although i got different wire in different batches. so i don't know which one will be better. i haven't tried this red rabbit cable, but was delighted with 174.


----------



## hakuzen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> There seems to be different materials used in fibre. Glass or plastic, perhaps? I guess my other cable isn't as good as my new one because it's allowing outside interference to harm the digital audio connection or maybe its fibre is plastic and not glass?


digital signal are 0/1 streams, which need to be converted to analog signals by a Digital to Analog Converter (DAC). if your digital cable gets a lot of interferences, more info has to be resent because the receiver can't distinguish some 0s and 1s, decreasing the velocity of the transmission. but you should never get noise nor distortion nor any sound difference due to this; the DAC will be the first responsible of these sound parameters (followed by the amplification, and phones).
optical fiber (but also coaxial cables) allows very high velocity, more than enough to carry even heavy (DSD) streams. i don't know the materials used in optical fiber, but either glass or plastic shouldn't suffer electromagnetic interferences. so the only chance to get some lag and/or cuts, is a defective cable (bad aligned connectors, or bended/cracked wire). i use optical fiber in all the digital interconnects i can (toslink), and they are very cheap cables; coaxial cables (canare/belden) for coaxial SPDIF; cheap coaxial to optical converters; and i only use litz geometry copper/silver canare protected cables in USB connections (in this case, the shorter, the better).


----------



## ArkNerevar

hakuzen said:


> the wire of 174 was made by another manufacturer who was using UP-OCC wires in other cables, although i got different wire in different batches. so i don't know which one will be better. i haven't tried this red rabbit cable, but was delighted with 174.


I see, so it may or may not be pure silver then, but you've spoken well of this seller (CEMA) so it's unlikely with their reputation they would flat out lie.

I plan on getting 2 silver cables, one for my IEM (UM3DT) & one for my headphone (ZMF Verite open) I did previously try a NiceHCK IEM cable & a Lunashops HP cable (it's your cable 130) and they are definitely not pure silver (ofc they say it is), basically considering between your cable 174 and this red rabbit cable, hmm I do like this idea of being pure silver and single crystal frozen, it is 4 core though, I did read your intro on lower resistances and broadly follow, I still would like to ask if you feel that the 8 cores to 4 would give a sound difference for the HP specifically (zmf verite open mini XLR to XLR 4 pole) and can I say that this thread was really very helpful, after being disappointed previously (cable 130) it's great to have an explanation and recommendation on how to get the real thing, you deserve kudos for this thread, thanks man.


----------



## ArkNerevar

Well it wasnt exactly cable 130, that has gold plating, it was this "99% pure silver" one , I presume its the same but without the "gold" plating.


----------



## hakuzen (Dec 22, 2021)

ArkNerevar said:


> I see, so it may or may not be pure silver then, but you've spoken well of this seller (CEMA) so it's unlikely with their reputation they would flat out lie.
> 
> I plan on getting 2 silver cables, one for my IEM (UM3DT) & one for my headphone (ZMF Verite open) I did previously try a NiceHCK IEM cable & a Lunashops HP cable (it's your cable 130) and they are definitely not pure silver (ofc they say it is), basically considering between your cable 174 and this red rabbit cable, hmm I do like this idea of being pure silver and single crystal frozen, it is 4 core though, I did read your intro on lower resistances and broadly follow, I still would like to ask if you feel that the 8 cores to 4 would give a sound difference for the HP specifically (zmf verite open mini XLR to XLR 4 pole) and can I say that this thread was really very helpful, after being disappointed previously (cable 130) it's great to have an explanation and recommendation on how to get the real thing, you deserve kudos for this thread, thanks man.


thank you for your appreciation.
based on my listening experience, i'm pretty sure cable 174 uses pure silver (with a bit of gold) alloy; bass is very clean and impactful, upper-mids and treble are not perceived forward (like it happens with silver plated cables), but also very clean. the difference between batches might be due to the wire manufacturer, but all of them are pure silver.
if there is a cable maker i trust in ali, it is CEMA. if they say roger rabbit cable uses 6n frozen single crystal sterling silver, i'm pretty sure they are not lying.
take an example with the first cable you linked (22AWG); title says pure silver, but you can read this in the description: "Pure silver was plated by 7n frozen OCC" (which states a plating, although the traductor is wrong, it probably means OCC copper plated by pure silver). they don't lie and usually provide decent amount of info about the wire.
so i bet you can be safe of getting silver, either with roger rabbit or 174. if you try roger rabbit, please share your impressions here; it looks interesting.

i was going to ask you for the output impedance of your sources, and if they use coupling capacitors in the output. but you are using dynamic drivers in your headphones (300ohm) and IEM (25ohm resistance, not too low), not balanced armatures. you won't notice any difference in sound between 4 and 8 cores (around 0.084ohms difference, insignificant in this case).

EDIT: and now, knowing your phones, i understand why you seek for pure silver. right choice, IMO.


----------



## Hal Rockwell

Any recommendations for impedance adapters?


----------



## hakuzen

Hal Rockwell said:


> Any recommendations for impedance adapters?


In my case, I haven't found any situation where impedance adapters are needed. I try to figure out the reason to increase output impedance (it probably exists) while I'm always seeking for the lowest possible.
I only checked impedance adapters with etymotic er4p (75ohm to "convert" to er4s) and kz zs6; one of the goals was to modify the frequency response (upper mids and highs: raising them in er4p, taming them in kz zs6, due to the impedance of the balanced armatures + crossover), but even in this case, I much prefer rolling tips, filters, or equalizing.
Another possible application of these adapters is to burn-in or measuring sources without using phones (you simulate a load of plain impedance), but you have to close the circuit after the adapter (left to ground, right to ground). I tried this kind of devices from iBasso and xDuoo (impedance adapter + closed circuit), see measurements below.

Anyway, if you are into impedance adapters, I recommend those which use a circuit of some different resistors rather than simple in serie resistors, because you get a more acceptable and fixed output impedance.

My resistance measurements of some cheap adapters in ohms.
-simple adapter (resistors in serie) (L-Gnd, R-Gnd):
generic chinese 30ohms: 19.9/19.97, 19.82/19.9
generic chinese 80ohms:  67.65/67.35, 68.7/68.35
-adapters with fixed (and lower) output impedance (L, R, L-Gnd, R-Gnd):
dunu 75(DC-21,green): 74.25, 74.9, 15, 14.97
dunu 150(DC-22,white):
dunu 200(DC-23,black): 199.8, 197.2, 15.02, 14.99
-closed circuit (load, to burn-in) (L, R):
xduoo X-L01 burn-in: 15.84/15.84    15.86/15.66
ibasso burn-in: 66, 33

So I suggest dunu ones (15ohms output impedance) over generic chinese ones. There are fancier adapters somewhere, which use audio specialized resistors and so.. more expensive surely.


----------



## castleofargh

hakuzen said:


> In my case, I haven't found any situation where impedance adapters are needed. I try to figure out the reason to increase output impedance (it probably exists) while I'm always seeking for the lowest possible.
> I only checked impedance adapters with etymotic er4p (75ohm to "convert" to er4s) and kz zs6; one of the goals was to modify the frequency response (upper mids and highs: raising them in er4p, taming them in kz zs6, due to the impedance of the balanced armatures + crossover), but even in this case, I much prefer rolling tips, filters, or equalizing.
> Another possible application of these adapters is to burn-in or measuring sources without using phones (you simulate a load of plain impedance), but you have to close the circuit after the adapter (left to ground, right to ground). I tried this kind of devices from iBasso and xDuoo (impedance adapter + closed circuit), see measurements below.
> 
> ...


All in all, it's probably better to avoid impedance adapters. But there are cases where it's a reasonable option.
The first one requires a good deal of luck. If the impedance curve of the IEM is shaped like an EQ you'd like applied to your IEM, and the initial amp impedance is low enough to allow for a significant impact, then an adapter might end up working as a tuning solution. I personally would suggest to use an EQ if the purpose is EQ, but I've had like 3 IEMs(rare cases) where extra resistance in the cable made it sound better to me subjectively(because of the new FR!!!). 
Another case is to save the amp. If the amp distorts when feeding a given power to a very low impedance IEM, chances are it's a current issue. Often enough the amp would behave better if it sees a bigger load(that would reduce the flow of current). 
Similarly, if the amp's noise floor is audible with a very sensitive IEMs, in many cases, an adapter might push that noise down and you only have to turn up the volume to objectively end up with better SNR(that only works if the noise floor doesn't go up as much as the music when you turn the knob so it won't work for all background noises). 

Depending on the situation, trying to remove hiss with extra impedance would also ruin the FR, or have other annoying stacking of effects. In that case it might be worth trying a bunch of values to make a voltage divider instead of just adding resistors in series. But IMO, all that is sort of rare and the solution if it exists, will tend to have to be more or less tailored to a specific need for best results. More often than not, the best answer for me is getting another amp, another IEM, or get a proper solution for EQ. Like you, I tend to prefer a strong impedance bridging and cables that have little impedance.


----------



## hakuzen

castleofargh said:


> All in all, it's probably better to avoid impedance adapters. But there are cases where it's a reasonable option.
> The first one requires a good deal of luck. If the impedance curve of the IEM is shaped like an EQ you'd like applied to your IEM, and the initial amp impedance is low enough to allow for a significant impact, then an adapter might end up working as a tuning solution. I personally would suggest to use an EQ if the purpose is EQ, but I've had like 3 IEMs(rare cases) where extra resistance in the cable made it sound better to me subjectively(because of the new FR!!!).
> Another case is to save the amp. If the amp distorts when feeding a given power to a very low impedance IEM, chances are it's a current issue. Often enough the amp would behave better if it sees a bigger load(that would reduce the flow of current).
> Similarly, if the amp's noise floor is audible with a very sensitive IEMs, in many cases, an adapter might push that noise down and you only have to turn up the volume to objectively end up with better SNR(that only works if the noise floor doesn't go up as much as the music when you turn the knob so it won't work for all background noises).
> ...


Thank you for enumerating the possible scenarios where an impedance adapter can be considered, master!

Respect the use for saving a low current limited amplifier (or amplifier stage of any source), I can't stand for the lack of related info from manufacturers; they usually provide some info about voltage limitations, but nothing about current limits, so you need to find for bench tests or to measure yourself. Fortunately, most amplifier stages have got overcurrent protection (the signal is clipped, but your components are safe).
Respect the use to decrease hissing, I hear you, SNR increase due to higher volume needed will be worse than the IEM hissing in most cases. 
I agree with you, better to look for a suitable new amplification, or for other IEM (if you can't live with its hissing), than using an impedance adapter, because of the unwanted frequency response alteration.


----------



## Hal Rockwell

Ended up getting the JCally Impedance Sticks. All of them measure 15Ohm higher than the stated resistance value, except the 600Ohm one that has a 20Ohm bump.
400Ohm adapter has a 15Ohm channel imbalance - left channel measures 390Ohm and right 405Ohm.


----------



## CT007 (May 10, 2022)

Any tests on FiiO LC-RE Pro, LC-RD Pro, and/or PWA M2?

I can't believe I actually bought backwards adapters... Or why they are even made/sold? Can SE to bal adapters even be used for anything?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832690675017.html


----------



## akanao

Can you also add the KZ 784 Silver/blue resistance measurement? I bought one and measured it but it shows 0.0  miliohms compare to my other cable that shows 0.2.


----------



## Dynamo5561

Update on my list:


Resistance in milliohmLength in meterLinkPrice (I bought for)Traillii Cable [PW Audio 1960s 4-Wire] (2,5)90​1,2​PW Audio Moloch (4,4mm)59​1,2​https://www.mtmtaudio.com/en-de/products/pw-audio-titan-series-moloch-iem-earphone-upgrade-cable399,00 €Odin Cable [Stormbreaker] (4,4)167​1,2​Vision Ears Phönix Cable (2,5mm)125​CEMA Crystal / Red Cable (2,5mm)68​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005001469501133.html83,00 €Hakugei Little Harmony Cable (3,5)250​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002362429239.html56,00 €Hakugei Ancient Great Forest Cable (2,5)115​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005001940676478.html115,00 €Hakugei Great Harmony Cable [8 share] (2,5mm)130​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001040630053.html150,00 €Hakugei Great Harmony Cable [8 share] (3,5mm)110​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001040630053.html150,00 €Purple Cable (3,5)130​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002213299475.html30,00 €Purple Cable (2,5)105​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002213299475.html30,00 €OpenHeart 8 core silver plated (2,5)85​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002627350236.html16,00 €OpenHeart 8 core silver plated (4,4)85​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002627350236.html16,00 €

Added: PW Audio Moloch + Vision Ears Phönix.

PW Audio Moloch so far the best cable I have measured.


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## Altes (Aug 15, 2022)

Dynamo5561 said:


> PW Audio Moloch so far the best cable I have measured.


So lower resistance in ohms means better sound quality?

Does cable material (e.g., single crystal copper vs OCC copper vs silver plated copper) actually not affect sound quality and the resistance measurement is all that matters?

I listened via *(1) *_*Rose Maria II single crystal copper cable*_ VS *(2) *_*Mest Indigo PWA Upgraded UM Copper M3 Cable (OCC copper)*_ VS *(3) *_*ThieAudio EST Litz 5N OCC Silver Plated cable*_, and in terms of resolution, (1) and (2) were clearly above (3). However, (2) and (3) shared the same low end emphasis and boosted bass frequencies significantly, even though (1) provided greater detail and soundstage height than (3). Both (1) and (2) had more detail and resolution than (3), but (1)'s bass and sub-bass notes sounded lifted and much brighter in all frequencies.

So I would've assumed (1) and (2) both have lower resistance in ohms, but since their sound signatures are so different, does it mean that single crystal copper has a much brighter sound signature? Why did the OCC copper cable and silver plated copper cable share the same sound warmer sound signature? I would've though silver plated was supposed to be brighter.

Btw, perceived differences were not slight, but huge, especially between cable (1) vs cables (2) and (3). Definitely could not hear the details in cable (3)'s low end and bass notes were much more rounded compared to cables (1) and (2). Cable (1) was super bright like walking from a dark room into a bright room.


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## Edric Li (Aug 28, 2022)

What a thread! Can you ID the wires used in these cables?

Effect Audio Ares S
Liquid Links Conti
FiftyStrings MQ3 Pro
CEMA RX

In general, how are you able to ID the wires?


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## hakuzen (Aug 28, 2022)

CT007 said:


> Any tests on FiiO LC-RE Pro, LC-RD Pro, and/or PWA M2?
> 
> I can't believe I actually bought backwards adapters... Or why they are even made/sold? Can SE to bal adapters even be used for anything?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832690675017.html


No tests of these cables by me.

Using SE adapter in a balanced output is a risk. If L- and R- channels are shorted into the adapter, it can damage the amplification stage of your source (depending of its protections). And you never get balanced benefits (power, minimum crosstalk = wider soundstage). So this kind of adapters are useless for me as well; the only possible use is having only balanced outputs and SE cable, which is very rare (most balanced sources usually have additional SE output).
That's why I suggest choosing balanced version of cables if you ever plan to get balanced outputs. You can use SE to balanced adapters to use a balanced cable on a SE output, safely.



akanao said:


> Can you also add the KZ 784 Silver/blue resistance measurement? I bought one and measured it but it shows 0.0  miliohms compare to my other cable that shows 0.2.


I can only add measurements of cables I own, or cables sent to me by manufacturers, distributors, or particulars. I can't spend in new cables anymore.



Dynamo5561 said:


> Update on my list:
> 
> 
> Resistance in milliohmLength in meterLinkPrice (I bought for)Traillii Cable [PW Audio 1960s 4-Wire] (2,5)90​1,2​PW Audio Moloch (4,4mm)59​1,2​https://www.mtmtaudio.com/en-de/products/pw-audio-titan-series-moloch-iem-earphone-upgrade-cable399,00 €Odin Cable [Stormbreaker] (4,4)167​1,2​Vision Ears Phönix Cable (2,5mm)125​CEMA Crystal / Red Cable (2,5mm)68​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005001469501133.html83,00 €Hakugei Little Harmony Cable (3,5)250​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002362429239.html56,00 €Hakugei Ancient Great Forest Cable (2,5)115​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005001940676478.html115,00 €Hakugei Great Harmony Cable [8 share] (2,5mm)130​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001040630053.html150,00 €Hakugei Great Harmony Cable [8 share] (3,5mm)110​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001040630053.html150,00 €Purple Cable (3,5)130​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002213299475.html30,00 €Purple Cable (2,5)105​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002213299475.html30,00 €OpenHeart 8 core silver plated (2,5)85​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002627350236.html16,00 €OpenHeart 8 core silver plated (4,4)85​1,2​https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002627350236.html16,00 €
> ...


Fantastic additions! They are very interesting cables. Thanks!



Altes said:


> So lower resistance in ohms means better sound quality?
> 
> Does cable material (e.g., single crystal copper vs OCC copper vs silver plated copper) actually not affect sound quality and the resistance measurement is all that matters?
> 
> ...


My opinion is shown in the first post of the thread. The lower resistance, the better. But once you are below required resistance regards of your gear, materials (conductor, sheaths, plugs) and geometry, mark the difference absolutely.



Edric Li said:


> What a thread! Can you ID the wires used in these cables?
> 
> Effect Audio Ares S
> Liquid Links Conti
> ...


Thanks.
I usually rely on manufacturer/vendor provided information; measurements can confirm part of that info.

All of the cables linked claim to be 4 * 24AWG. So 24AWG per channel, resistance should be 110-120 miliOhms per channel.
Diameter and amount of threads, and details about geometry, are missing info, but visually you can see the threads are twisted in various packs, which are also twisted (Litz geometry) in all them. Only MQ3 says something about 50 threads.
Ares S and MQ3 Pro specify they use UP-OCC copper. I can vouch for Ares, because Effect Audio is trustable in this matter. About MQ3, I can't guess.

Effect Audio Ares S provides this info:
- Selected Premium UP-OCC Copper Litz
- Proprietary Dual Geometric Design
- EPO* 24 AWG 4 Wires
- EA Ultra Flexi™ Insulation
- ConX ™ Interchangeable Connector
- Rhodium Plated Brass Straight Type Plug

Based on my experience about anterior entry line from Effect Audio, Vogue series, I'd go for this Ares S from new entry line, Signature series. Price is similar to MQ3 Pro.
It does use true UP-OCC copper Litz (enameled), new version is thicker (24AWG compared with 26AWG of Maestro in Vogue series), and it sports ConX interchangeable connector, which is a big advantage, compared to using adapters.


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## Edric Li (Aug 28, 2022)

hakuzen said:


> Thanks.
> I usually rely on manufacturer/vendor provided information; measurements can confirm part of that info.
> 
> All of the cables linked claim to be 4 * 24AWG. So 24AWG per channel, resistance should be 110-120 miliOhms per channel.
> ...


Thanks, this is helpful.

I am in the market for a dark-sounding cable. Soundstage depth and midrange warmth would be a plus but not a must. Have you come across any new cables that are worthy of consideration since the CEMA 198 cable?


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## hakuzen

Edric Li said:


> Thanks, this is helpful.
> 
> I am in the market for a dark-sounding cable. Soundstage depth and midrange warmth would be a plus but not a must. Have you come across any new cables that are worthy of consideration since the CEMA 198 cable?


150 is also dark. 125, 210, 192 might fit your needs, although not so dark


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