# Darkvoice 337 - A Review



## Mazuki

*Introduction:*

 The Darkvoice 336 that some people here at Head-fi began taking orders on early last year generated tremendous interest in this Chinese headphone amp manufacturer. Its polished looks, meticulous construction and outstanding sound grabbed my attention as well. For a couple of months, I was seriously considering ordering one. Then I learned I would be returning to China for Christmas/New Years. I figured I would wait it out and do the due diligence during vacation. I looked around on this Chinese headphone site www.erji.net and found a store in my hometown on Hangzhou that sells headphones and headphone amps. It was in the information technology district (think Circuit City, CompUSA, Best Buy grouped in a couple of street blocks), perfect. It was a long wait until the end of December but my patience had its reward.

*Buying the amp:*

 This store looked great online. It had pictures showing a huge stock of headphones and headphone amps. Yes, the Darkvoice 336 was one of them. I took down the address and went to find this store. I had a general impression it would be one of many stores in a big mall. The photos had given me this general impression. I was grossly mislead. The store was in some building numbered 402. As I walked down the street, I saw 390, then 398, then 400, and then 406. What? Something’s missing. Indeed, some building was torn down and construction on something newer was on its way. I was shocked. Could the store be gone already? It certainly is plausible. You never know with these internet stores, not to mention its specialty store status. Fortunately, I asked around for a while and eventually found a slightly run down building with a residential feel. Surely this wasn’t the place? It was; on the third floor, in what seemed like a converted apartment. 

 There was no big sign outside or anything. The door was closed too. There was a doorbell though, I went ahead and rang it. Some young guy opened the door. I told him I was there to examine the Darkvoice 336. He said he didn’t have any in stock at the moment. That sucks. What about the Darkvoice 337 then? Yes. He had one. Why not listen then, I thought. I had always wondered why it had dual volume controls yet not balanced output. 

 He went into the stock room and brought out the beast. This amp is massive. If you can imagine three Darkvoice 336s set next to each other, that is how massive this thing is. The young guy hooked it up to some Philips CD player. He even offered me a Beyer DT-880, my dynamic phone of choice. Then I noticed, I forgot to bring some CDs. He didn’t have much Western music either. He did have this mix with Hotel California, from Hell Freezes Over. I’ve heard this song on many an occasion. I gave it a shot. Wow, that kick drum in the beginning sounded real impactful and robust. I went ahead and listened for a few more minutes. He had a pair of Audio Technica ATH-A900ltds; they sounded real closed in (compared to DT-800) but what bass! I was beginning to ponder the possibility of buying this amp. I still wanted to know what the Darkvoice 336 sounded like though. I asked him when he would have it in stock, he told me about a week. That was cutting it close with my scheduled departure back to the US. Nevertheless, I decided to wait it out. There is a significant price difference and I wanted to make an informed decision. 

 A week passed and I gave the store a call. They still did not have the Darkvoice 336 in stock. This was bad news. Should I leave empty handed? Or should I jump on the Darkvoice 337. It sounded really really good. I decided to listen to it more extensively. I brought in some of my own CDs and auditioned it for almost an hour. 

 But how was I going to bring it back? I was already told it would only be in 220V too. During that hour, I made up my mind. I’ll ship it back myself and I’ll buy a voltage converter. If I let this go, I’ll never forgive myself. 

*About the amp:*

 So here it is, halfway across the globe in the US with me. When I was talking to the post office woman, she said it was guaranteed to arrive in a month. That was second most expensive option. I had reached my limit and settled on it. To my great surprise, it arrived in a week (I shipped the amp but brought the tubes along with me on the plane because they were the most sensitive to mishandling). Perfect! In fact, it came two days before my voltage converter. Those were two very agonizing days. 

 Here are some pictures of the outside. 



















 This amp was designed using a Beyerdynamic DT-880 and an AKG K1000. 


























 The internals are similar to the Darkvoice 336 and 332, very neat point to point wiring. The parts used are not name-brand. But (according to the manual) part of Darkvoice’s philosophy is making ordinary parts sounds amazing. This amp is basically a dual mono setup with two separate power supplies. 








 The stock tubes are NOS Chinese military tubes made by the old Shuguang tube factory, *2x6J8P and 2x6N5P. I would like to clarify that the Darkvoice 337 does not use the same tubes as the Darkvoice 336. *The preamp tube in the Darkvoice 336 is equivalent to the 6SN7 a twin triode. The Darkvoice 337 preamp tubes are equivalent to the 6SJ7 pentode. Two pentodes are needed when only one twin triode is required. This also means the Darkvoice 337 is not merely two 336s combined, but a different modified setup. Pentodes are also more powerful than triodes as well. That means this amp has some serious power. Also, 6SJ7s are very plentiful and often very cheap. There is the military equivalent 5693 (RCA red hots) and also the loctal 7C7 tube. The power tube is the same as the Darkvoice 336 though. 

*My review setup:*

 Source: M-Audio Revolution 5.1 (coax)
 Zhaolu 2.0C using 2x OPA2107 and 1x OPA827 (still a prototype opamp at the moment I think)

 Amps: M^3
 FEEL HP200SE
 Darkvoice 336

 Headphones:

 Beyerdynamic DT-880 (’03)
 AKG K1000 (borrowed)

 Songs to be examined (all lossless):

 The Eagles – Hell Freezes Over – Hotel California
 Guns ‘N Roses – Appetite for Destruction (MFSL) – Sweet Child of Mine
 Paul Simon – Graceland – Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes
 New Order – Substance – Bizarre Love Triangle 
 U2 – The Joshua Tree (MFSL) – With or Without You

*Disclaimer:*

 I do not consider myself an audiophile. I do have a great passion for music. In the end, it’s the music that really matters. I listen to most genres of music but focus more on classic rock, alternative and classical. I notice subtleties in music but often find it hard to describe differences between headphones and amps. I also don’t spend too much time only listening to music. I’m from the multitasking generation where listening to music is an accompanying task, not something to concentrate solely on. Also, this Darkvoice 337 has been on continuously for almost two weeks. It’s safe to say it is fully burned in. 

*How does it sound: *

 My general impression of the amp is that it is astonishingly powerful. My normal listening volume on the DT880s is around 9 o’clock, with the AKG K1000s it is around 12 o’clock. There is a lot of impact, especially in the bass region. Whereas the FEEL or M^3 drives with the force of a large hammer, it feels like the Darkvoice is wielding a sledgehammer. Clipping? No such thing. The sound is very warm, very musical. There is no leanness or glare to the music. The midrange and the highs are both excellent. The amp sounds smooth yet not slow either. The soundstage is incredibly wide, much more than I though possible. Finally, the detail is to die for. Nuances are never lost, subtleties are all revealed. Of course, since there are countless tube rolling options, the sound can be tuned to your own liking. More on that later. 

 The Eagles – Hell Freezes Over – Hotel California

 This was the song that got me hooked. This was an awesome live album. You can tell they rehearsed diligently. It is true their reunion tour(s) ticket prices were exorbitant, but few bands these days are as talented as they are. Plus the CD cost less than $20. 

 The soundstage is naturally very wide on the K1000s. If I was given more tactile/physical feedback, I could swear I was sitting in the actual concert hall. The sound is very balanced. The bass reaches reasonably deep and the highs are well represented. I would even venture to say the bass is a bit emphasized. For those who think the AKG is bass shy, this is definitely an amp to change that opinion. The renowned AKG midrange? Don Henley has a sort of rustic, scratchy voice. The amp really brings that voice to life. I really don’t know how to describe it aside from saying what I hear on the recording is what he sends into the microphone. Also, during the guitar solo, the individual plucks on the guitar are distinct, powerful and end with a very natural decay. There’s something about electric guitar that just sounds right, sort of like the bagpipes. I don’t know what it is, but this amp really allows you to enjoy those stirring notes. 

 I think the DT880s share many characteristics with the AKG K1000s. Many people complain about weak bass and piercing highs but praise its incredible detail and unreal soundstage. The Darkvoice 337 compensates for the DT880’s weaknesses and augments its strengths. The bass line here reaches incredibly deep and the drums are conveyed with chilling power. A detailed bass-shy phone could very well sound boring, very analytical. This amp brings back that emotion. Most people agree a tube amp can tame the DT880’s highs and boost its bass. That is exactly what the Darkvoice does. The impact of the outputted sound reminds me of a Dynalo: punchy, dynamic. Yet the tonal balance and the musicality takes me back to the ASL MG Head OTL I used to own. In some respects, the soundstage was even more impressive than the K1000s. How is that possible? When I’m wearing the K1000s, I do not feel like I’m wearing headphones. Deep down, I’m expecting a speaker-like experience, especially since the lack of isolation give me a sense of being “out in the open”. When I’m wearing the DT880s, just by the feeling something covering my ears, I feel I am in some kind of container, isolated. In this state, when I hear something that seemingly comes from behind me or outwards from my sides, I am surprised and thrilled. Whereas the DT880s belie the headphone experience, the K1000s ultimately fall short of the speaker experience. 

 Guns ‘N Roses – Appetite for Destruction (MFSL) – Sweet Child of Mine

 K1000s: Intro guitar riff has amazing space. But ultimately Axl Rose’s voice sounds a bit lean and lifeless. I attribute this mainly to the soundstage. It’s too wide to be intimate. He sounds like he’s somewhere far away shouting at me.

 DT880: I like this song much more on these headphones. The electric guitar sounds better. The bass goes deeper. Axl sounds closer and more full of life. 

 Paul Simon – Graceland – Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes

 Ladysmith Black Mambazo sounds so good here. The group’s voices sound so powerful, so reassuring, so deep. Paul Simon’s voice also sounds amazing. The inflections in his voice are extremely clear and realistic. At the point when the into singing ends and there is a brief instrumental section, the drums attack with amazing vigor and the bass guitar picks with authority and presence. This is a very exciting and upbeat song. The shear sonic impact of the Darkvoice 337 brings that extra bit of life into it. The warm tube sound rounds out everything removing any hint this is digital music. 

 New Order – Substance – Bizarre Love Triangle 

 I want to first note there are many many remixes of this song, so your results may vary. The version on this album has a lengthy and prominent section of cymbals at the beginning of the sound. This is a great display of the Darkvoice’s ability to present highs clearly and in a non-fatiguing way. The transients are also very fast and definitely keep pace with the music. 

 U2 – The Joshua Tree (MFSL) – With or Without You

 The soundstage and the bass are tested with this song. The Darkvoice 337 definitely steps up to the challenge. The intro contains so much ambience, while the beginning bass line sounds so clear, tuneful and full of energy. Bono’s singing is also presented with aplomb. Every breath he takes, every crescendo/decrescendo is clearly delineated. The passion that is the hallmark of U2 songs is every so present and utterly convincing. 

*My other amps:*

 I bought my FEEL HP200SE about a year ago. It is a tube/mosfet hybrid utilizing two 12AX7s and two 12AU7s. The looks are amazing and the sound is excellent. However it no leans more towards solid state than valve sound. Changing tubes does have noticeable effects on the sounds though. The bass can go really deep and the amp can sound very punchy. There are times when it runs head to head even with the Darkvoice 337. The detail recovery is exceptional and attack/decay is very fast. Soundstage does fall a bit short of the Darkvoice though. Also, it sometimes has a tendency to be a bit bright. Extreme highs can be fatiguing. Overall, it’s an incredible amp in the same league as the Darkvoice 337. There is one big exception however, and that is in its power. The amp is massive, heavy, hot (thermodynamically, since it runs full class A) and certainly has presence. But when prompted to drive the K1000s, it begs for mercy, clipping at only around 12 o’clock. Had I more knowledge of EE, I could explain this problem. Anyone have suggestions?

 I built my M^3 in the middle of last summer. I started a Pimeta before it as a warm up, having read it was supposed to be simpler and easier to finish. I had a terrible experience with the TREAD power supply (many thanks to MisterX for helping me out) and ended up finishing my M^3 + STEPS before the Pimeta. The M^3 astonished me and almost made me regret buying the FEEL. This amp had some much power! Whereas the FEEL failed to push enough voltage into the K1000s, the M^3 substituted with great ease. The M^3 was faster and punchier. It was surprisingly warm and a ridiculous bargain (thanks AMB + Morsel!) But the FEEL still held a slight edge in musicality. However, sometimes shear force is convincing enough to forget those differences. The bass boost is also brilliant, perfect for my DT880s. In the end, what led me to choose one amp over the other any particular day often depended on shear convenience. The FEEL needed longer to warm up and turning tubes on and off was bad. Both amps got about the same listening time though. This status quo has obviously been ripped apart with the addition of the Darkvoice 337 now. 

*Tube Rolling:*

 During that week while I waited for the Darkvoice 337 to arrive, I began reviewing the Darkvoice 336 threads for advice on tube rolling. I put many 6SN7s on my eBay watchlist. Most online sources spec the Darkvoice 337 as using the same preamp tube as the Darkvoice 336. They look exactly the same, which is probably why there is such confusion. Luckily I did not bid on any of these 6SN7s and bought a few 6SJ7 instead. I also bought a few 6AC7 tubes and 2 sets of 6AS7 tubes. I don’t think the 6AS7 power tubes make much of a difference. I haven’t really tested their differences. The preamp tube is another story. I bought a pair of Sylvania 6SJ7s and Amperex 6SJ7s. They were merely okay. I didn’t notice much difference from the stock tube. The 6AC7s were much more interesting. I first tried a pair of RCA JAN 6AC7/1853 tubes. What’s this? Hum? Very bad, what a mistake to buy this tube. It was also microphonic like no other. Moving my mouse up and down to move the cursor across the screen could potentially induce a reverbation I could pick up in my headphone. If I tapped on the amp chassis, I could hear my tapping. But the music that came out was phenomenal. There was a noticeable increase in detail. I did not want to move back to the 6SJ7s or the stock tube. What about the hum, surprisingly, after a few days, it went away. Amazing! Encouraged, I bought a few more 6AC7s. CBS Hytron, that was a pretty decent company. Their 6AC7 hummed like crazy and it did not go away. I tried a set of Ken-rad JAN 6AC7s, hummed at first, but went away after a few days. Moral of the story? 6AC7s are fine, but make sure their military grade. 

 I also ordered a set of 7C7 loctal tubes and make a pair of adapters. The tubes haven’t arrived, I will post impressions later. I might get some 6080 tubes in the future as well.

*Conclusion:*

 All three my amps sound incredible. After extended listening sessions, their sound signatures start to converge and I have an increasingly hard time making out the differences. Any differences are very minor and if I were multitasking, would be lost in my attention deficit. I am very satisfied with my purchase, harboring absolutely no regrets. I would highly recommend this amp to anyone looking for a high end OTL tube amplifier.


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## chesebert

anyplace in Shanghai sells it? thx!


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## bimmer116

Wow, great review!! I knew you were going to write a review but I didn't expect it to be this long! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, the review is absolutely right! We had a one or was it two hours listening session comparing my dynahi with the 337, both performed exceptional and at the levels of these amps they ought to be. The main difference between the two is that the 337 is smoother, tubier (obviously), had more impact and slight wider soundstage. The dynahi imho has the edge on speed, resolution (not by much). Ultimately after 1 hr of listening, I couldn't really tell the difference that much anymore, got lost in the music and just decided to enjoy them.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mike

 BTW, we should do an UCLA meet!


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## Mazuki

Here is a link to the manufacturer administrated forum.


 Here is a thread (in Chinese) about Darkvoice 337 tube rolling.

  Quote:


 anyplace in Shanghai sells it? thx! 
 

This thread lists all the Chinese distributors for Darkvoice. Looks like there are two stores. You'll have to call them or search for a website on www.baidu.com


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## Fang

Hi, What did you recable your beyer with?


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## Yen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, What did you recable your beyer with?_

 

Looks like Cardas, which is really popular with dt880.


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## Mazuki

I used Canare Mini Star-Quad. There is very little, if any sound difference, IMO. The cable is just much more sturdy. The K1000s have a Canare Star-quad adapter cable.


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## echo1

Darkvoice
 As a owner of the darkvoice 336, I have been through many power tubes including Ken Rad, RCA,National Electronics all 6as7g.
 I found(along with Fitz who tube rolled a lot of them also.I know he tried catham,tung sol and many others) that the 6as7g does have an impact on sound.And we both settled on none of the American tubes but rather the Russian Svetlana Military tubes 6h13c(6as7g equivelent). You can get them on ebay for about 8 to 9 dollars apiece shipped.Between I and Fitz we probably tube rolled 10-15 different tubes and both came to the same conclusion independintly.
 Hope it helps


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## MaloS

Quote:


 But when prompted to drive the K1000s, it begs for mercy, clipping at only around 12 o’clock. 
 

Op-amps reaching their limit under high load. Give it better op-amps and give those more voltage to work with and the issue should go away... (matching impedance between k1000 and the amp would help too, but I am not sure how exactly impedance transformers influence the quality of the signal).


 Excellent review, although I wonder how would this amp work with lower impedance headphones? Although low impedance issues are not difficult to fix, additional impedance is probably the easiest thing to add in the chain. Also how do you feel about its performance with classical through dt880s? 
 Also, what power adapter do you use? Sorry to be asking 10000 questions >.< Just bought 337's lil brother 332, while sitting with an hd595, and am wondering about ways to get the best out the amp (332 is supposedly very similar to 337), apart from tube-rolling.


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## cotdt

I compared the Darkvoice 337 against the Doge 6210 at Mike's apartment. What a blast! Mike was not only super cool, but had amazing equipment. Well, to me it turned out to be more of an OTL Pentode (337) versus OPT Triode (Doge) tube amp comparison. They turned out to be polar opposites, and definately a matter of preference.

 The Darkvoice 337 is an amazing amp! It is huge, and beautiful, with no hum. Sizewise, it's about twice that of the Doge. Coming from transformer-output SET amps like the Doge 6210, at first I thought that the Darkvoice 337 sounded like a solid state amp, since it did not have midrange bloom typically associated with tubes and was very clean-sounding. But then I A/B tested the Darkvoice 337 against a real solid state amp the M^3 (with STEPS power supply), and the Darkvoice sounded more lively, impactful, and dynamic. Mike says the 337 is said to sound similar to the 332 but better overall. It has tighter bass than the Doge 6210 and a cleaner midrange. The highs were very similar on both amps. I thought that the M^3, Darkvoice, and Doge 6210 were equally detailed, with the headphone being the limitation. If you just want to buy one amp and nothing else, the 337 might be the amp to get. It does what an amp should do, which is faithful amplification. That it does very well. It presents the music like it is, rather than sugar-coat it like the Doge. And did I mention the tighter bass? It drove the low impedance 25ohm Denon D2000 very well, which surprised me since tube amps have low dampening factors. The Doge made the bass on these Denons a little flabby in comparision (but definately something I can live with). The imaging on the Darkvoice is also superior to the Doge 6210.

 On the other hand, if you already own a solid state amp, the Darkvoice will sound very similar so you are better off with a "tubey" tube amp like the Doge 6210. Harmonic distortion specs support this observation. The Doge has plenty of midrange bloom, expanded soundstage, and a sweeter midrange with greater emphasis on the vocals. It's more emotional and natural-sounding to me, but this effect could be in part because I am more used to this amp. It has the prototypical SET tube sound that some like but others dislike. It synergizes better with the K701 because it makes the sound more "full". I should note that my Doge was lightly modded. The gain on the Doge is higher than the 337, so much so that anything above 10 o'clock is useless. Replacing the 12AX7 with the 5751 should remedy this. The Doge also has greater max output than the 337, which is no surprise since it's transformer-coupled. But the only time this matters is when you use DACs without an I/V stage.

 In short, while the Darkvoice 337 was technically superior in all aspects, and more neutral, I still prefer the Doge 6210 for its SET presentation of the sound and its better synergy with certain headphones. The Darkvoice 337 sounded like a good solid state amp, with some differences. It is probably in the same class as the Dynahi, probably livelier but won't have the massive bass impact (it is still very amazing in its bass qualities, though). Too bad the Dynahi wasn't represented in our mini-meet, but we did have the M^3 at hand and I already mentioned that I preferred the 337 over it. In turn, the M^3 is superior to the Gilmore Lite IMHO.

 Something peculiar to the Darkvoice 337 is that it has two power switches and two volume controls (one for each channel). Channel matching turned out to be much easier than I anticipated, but it could be tiresome in the long term. This is definately a dual mono amp. If this were my own amp, I would mod it to use only one volume control and power switch.

 Headphones tested were Denon D2000, AKG K701, Ultrasone 2500, Beyer DT880, and Beyer DT990. Various DACs were used. All these amp comparisons are relative and many people would not even be able to hear the difference. The choice of DAC has a far greater impact on the sound than the amp.


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## M0T0XGUY

When did this come out? I don't remember seeing any threads about a new Darkvoice.

 EDIT: Just curious, but does the amp use a stepped attenuator? If not, then how do you keep the left and right sides equal, I imagine you could drive yourself crazy trying to get them to sound the same.


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## tbonner1

Great review as always, thanks for taking the time. I like the power of the hybrids and most of these designs I have heard tend towards a solid state sound in terms of dynamics and bass impact.

 The 337 is on my radar.


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## yrh0413

just curious; isn't it more logical if it comes with one volume knob and one flipping switch to turn it on?


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## tbonner1

True purists love the 337 dual mono. You rarely see this anymore because it is more expensive (double). Some may argue:
 -there is less crosstalk
 -two separate isolated power supplies are more robust than one for both channels. This may(in part) contribute to a more dynamic sound.
 -Two volume pots allow for more precise channel tracking


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## Mazuki

Quote:


 EDIT: Just curious, but does the amp use a stepped attenuator? If not, then how do you keep the left and right sides equal, I imagine you could drive yourself crazy trying to get them to sound the same. 
 

The amp has regular variable pots. Yes, it does drive me crazy sometimes, trying to get exact level matching. I keep volume fairly constant though, so it's not that huge of a problem.

  Quote:


 just curious; isn't it more logical if it comes with one volume knob and one flipping switch to turn it on? 
 

Since the amp is a dual mono (separate power supplies, separate gain stages) setup, the designer decided to highlight that fact with two switches and two pots. 

  Quote:


 Various DACs were used. All these amp comparisons are relative and many people would not even be able to hear the difference. The choice of DAC has a far greater impact on the sound than the amp. 
 

We compared my Zhaolu D2C (CS chip, LM6172 opamps) with Philip's D2.5 (AD chip, Zapfilter out) and a DAC-AH (with passive bypass). The source definitely made the biggest changes. Which one was better? It's a matter of personal preference.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *M0T0XGUY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When did this come out? I don't remember seeing any threads about a new Darkvoice.

 EDIT: Just curious, but does the amp use a stepped attenuator? If not, then how do you keep the left and right sides equal, I imagine you could drive yourself crazy trying to get them to sound the same._

 

It's been out a while.

 I imagine it would be quite a pain to match volumes if they're using the same kind as the 336 (a linear pot), since they have barely any movement between soft and loud, but with a pair of decent log taper pots (in a pair of 336is running dual mono) I had no trouble keeping the channels matched. Usually it only took me one or two fine adjustments after making any significant volume change.


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## Thelonious Monk

nice review. this amp's looks and featureset put a lot of american amplifiers to shame, it seems.


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## SonicDawg

Actually I don't think it is truly dual mono, since the output and input seems to have a shared ground. Wouldn't two Darkvoice 336s bridged together be a better (and cheaper?) solution?


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually I don't think it is truly dual mono, since the output and input seems to have a shared ground. Wouldn't two Darkvoice 336s bridged together be a better (and cheaper?) solution?_

 

The 337 uses a 6J8P (6SJ7) pentode instead of a 6N8P (6SN7) triode like the 336, so it's not an apples to apples comparison.


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## Mazuki

I think a dual 336 and 337 would make a really interesting comparison. In this case, the 337 would be cheaper. hehe


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## Mazuki

Just to report back, I finally got the loctal to octal adapters working. The 7C7 tubes I bought (RCA, Tung-sol) both sound amazing, better than any 6SJ7 variant I've heard. 

 For those using 6SN7s for Darkvoice 336s, I would highly recommend trying some 7N7 loctals. If you need adapters, feel free to PM me.


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## Skylab

Based on my very early experience, I certainly agree with Mazuki's review. The Darkvoice 337 has impressed me a LOT so far. It's both powerful and yet detailed, and capable of great beauty and delicacy, while still being very dynamic, and having truly outstanding bass performance. I didn't use the stock tubes at all, put in JAN/RCA 6AS7G's for the power tubes and JAN/Phillips 6SJ7's for the preamp tubes. While the 6SJ7's needed a few hours to stop buzzing, they did, and with this tube complement the 337 sounds terrific. I'm HIGHLY impressed so far. More later.


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## Mazuki

It's great having another 337 owner on board! This one has definitely been a sleeper. 

 Let me know what you think of those loctal tubes.


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## Skylab

I will for sure, looking forward to trying them.

 In the meantime, I spent a good amount of time listening to the 337 today while watching football. It sounds WONDERFUL. It's not as impressive cosmetically as I thought it was going to be, but I don't care - it sounds TERRIFIC. So very engaging sounding. It's not overly romantic at all - has a wonderfully clear midrange, just a touch lush of neutral, but it's not a super-tubey sounding tube amp. And it has amazing bass power for a tube amp, and a refine, clean, extended treble. And the best soundstage of any amp I have ever owned, except maybe the Blue Circle SBH.

 In short - the 337 is a terrific amp, and a tremendous bargain.


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## minivan




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## Mazuki

Are you planning to get one?


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## tomjtx

Well,
 I have ordered a DV337 (curse you, head-fi 

 I have a friend who makes and designs mic preamps and other gear who is going to look into installing stepped attenuaters for an easier way to channel match the volume. 

 Obviously we would also be wanting to not degrade SQ and even improve it if possible.

 I plan to live with the 337 stock (except tube changes) before trying out the stepped att. idea. 

 I'll post impressions.

 Has anyone else tried this?

 My DV is probably 2 weeks away since I am delaying shipment while out of town.

 Looking forward to hearing it.


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## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will for sure, looking forward to trying them.

 In the meantime, I spent a good amount of time listening to the 337 today while watching football. It sounds WONDERFUL. It's not as impressive cosmetically as I thought it was going to be, but I don't care - it sounds TERRIFIC. So very engaging sounding. It's not overly romantic at all - has a wonderfully clear midrange, just a touch lush of neutral, but it's not a super-tubey sounding tube amp. And it has amazing bass power for a tube amp, and a refine, clean, extended treble. And the best soundstage of any amp I have ever owned, except maybe the Blue Circle SBH.

 In short - the 337 is a terrific amp, and a tremendous bargain._

 

when you say 'amazing bass' which cans are you using? 

 I can attest to the out-of-head feeling of DV amp; my 332 does the same thing. However, I don't think I am getting 'amazing bass' when compared to the Dynahi I use to have. Is 337 that much better than 332 wrt to bass? (I use K701)


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## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *minivan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..._

 

uh..what is this 337SE? is this an upgrade to the 337?


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_uh..what is this 337SE? is this an upgrade to the 337? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I think so..

 SE = Special Edition, no?


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## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think so..

 SE = Special Edition, no? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

yes I can see that...so..what was upgraded? and the price difference between SE and stock


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## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes I can see that...so..what was upgraded? and the price difference between SE and stock_

 


 Eh, I'm not sure.. 

 IMO that gold looks oooogly.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so..what was upgraded?_

 

The end panels.


----------



## nick20

Sorry for the OT, but a quick question to Fitz:


 Are you still doing any mod's for the 336i?





 Thanks,

 -Nick


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for the OT, but a quick question to Fitz:


 Are you still doing any mod's for the 336i?





 Thanks,

 -Nick_

 

Yes, I still do the standard mods for the 336 when I'm hired to do so.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_when you say 'amazing bass' which cans are you using? 

 I can attest to the out-of-head feeling of DV amp; my 332 does the same thing. However, I don't think I am getting 'amazing bass' when compared to the Dynahi I use to have. Is 337 that much better than 332 wrt to bass? (I use K701)_

 

The bass was awesome on my JVC DX1000's.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The bass was awesome on my JVC DX1000's._

 

hmm...looking at the imp rating for dx1k and k701 they are similar, I am certainly not getting 'awesome bass' with my k701...I wonder why..is 337 that much better in bass vs 332?

 <edit> Just had a listen to my rig. Maybe the bass is not as bad as I thought it was. If you can describe 'awesome' in a little more detail. Like mid bass, depth, slam, PRaT, etc. </edit>


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm...looking at the imp rating for dx1k and k701 they are similar, I am certainly not getting 'awesome bass' with my k701...I wonder why..is 337 that much better in bass vs 332?

 <edit> Just had a listen to my rig. Maybe the bass is not as bad as I thought it was. If you can describe 'awesome' in a little more detail. Like mid bass, depth, slam, PRaT, etc. </edit>_

 

The bass was remarkably well defined, tight, and powerful. Much better defined than any other tube amp I have ever owned, including the DV 336i. 

 The 337 is quite different from the 332, so I wouldn't be surprised that they differ.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The bass was remarkably well defined, tight, and powerful. Much better defined than any other tube amp I have ever owned, including the DV 336i. 

 The 337 is quite different from the 332, so I wouldn't be surprised that they differ._

 

I was told by the maker of DV that 332 is a smaller version of 337, but they have essentially the same topology, sans the tube difference, and 1 less transformer. 

 When is the next chicago meet? I think I need to bring my 332 to get some serious comparison done.


----------



## Skylab

Drop by with your 332 anytime!


----------



## Gradofan2

I don't suppose it could possibly be... the difference in the phones... and not the amps... could it!?! Well duh.uh...

 The DV332 has "awesome bass"... if... you have the right phones!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't suppose it could possibly be... the difference in the phones... and not the amps... could it!?! Well duh.uh...

 The DV332 has "awesome bass"... if... you have the right phones!_

 

I see what you are saying, but what I said was that the DX1000's have better bass with the 337 than any of my other tube amps. So I was comparing the same headphones with different amps in concluding the 337 has great bass.


----------



## Mazuki

The topology of the 337 and 332 may be the same, but just the fact that the tubes are octals versus novals in itself will lead to differences in sound. 

 Also, there are a couple of threads on the Darkvoice forum with pictures hinting at part changes. Any combination of them could turn out to be the 337SE. For me, I'd rather just upgrade the parts myself. 

 Here are the three threads:

http://www.diybuy.net/thread-82139-1-1.html

http://www.diybuy.net/thread-71485-1-2.html

http://www.diybuy.net/thread-51309-1-1.html

 The output caps are currently 51uF SCR (Solen) MKP caps. Perhaps changing to some other brands will improve the sound. I'm also planning to change the power supply caps to 105°C rated electrolytics.


----------



## minivan

new headamp from little tube


----------



## bOUddha

Looks like a Little 2 Much...


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see what you are saying, but what I said was that the DX1000's have better bass with the 337 than any of my other tube amps. So I was comparing the same headphones with different amps in concluding the 337 has great bass._

 

No doubt the DV 337 has better bass than the DV 336 or DV 332 - it should.

 My point was directed at Chesebert's suggestion that the DV 332 doesn't have "awesome bass." It quite clearly does... with the right phones. It's not the amp... it's the phones. If you're not impressed with the bass from the DV 332... get the right phones. And... when it comes to the bass, there really is no comparison between the DX1000's and the K701's, no matter what amp.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bOUddha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like a Little 2 Much...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 I agree. I could spend $1,000 just on a set of tubes... just wayyyy too many tubes IMO. It looks nice, but for me to outfit it with tubes would cost too much.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No doubt the DV 337 has better bass than the DV 336 or DV 332 - it should.

 My point was directed at Chesebert's suggestion that the DV 332 doesn't have "awesome bass." It quite clearly does... with the right phones. It's not the amp... it's the phones. If you're not impressed with the bass from the DV 332... get the right phones. And... when it comes to the bass, there really is no comparison between the DX1000's and the K701's, no matter what amp._

 

Gotcha. Makes sense.


----------



## snoxu

Hey guys,

 I'm thinking of holding out till the 337 Special Edition comes out. One of the ebay vendors told me it will be available in a couple weeks for 700 USD + 150 shipping (Europe).

 For 850 USD total is this the best I can do, or is there a better amps that can beat it for the price. A stock SP Extreme, something else?


----------



## Skylab

Can't really say, since no one has heard the 337 SE


----------



## snoxu

Then compared to the current standard 337?

 Also, I see you have a few amps, how does your 337 rank among them?


----------



## Skylab

The 337 is certainly the best tube amp I own, and beats the standard PPX3, which I also owned. It's competitive with my best SS amps that cost $1,200.


----------



## snoxu

Let me guess competitive with your Opera?

 Interesting as I owned it for a while, but gave up on it as I didn't feel it was a lively and full enough amp for my taste and cans (DT990 and HD650), hence why I'm considering going the tube amp route...


----------



## Skylab

Competitive with the Opera, yes, altho tube and SS amps are sufficiently different sounding to make direct comparisons invalid, IMO.


----------



## tomjtx

My DarkVoice 337 ships tomorrow from Jasmine!

 The factory was backordered. Great service from Jasmine, kept me posted all the way and is running the amp now to make sure there are no problems. 
 Got the tubes skylab recommended so now all I have to do is wait


----------



## Skylab

Let us know when it arrives!


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let us know when it arrives!_

 

Will do


----------



## Cecala

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomjtx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My DarkVoice 337 ships tomorrow from Jasmine!

 The factory was backordered. Great service from Jasmine, kept me posted all the way and is running the amp now to make sure there are no problems. 
 Got the tubes skylab recommended so now all I have to do is wait _

 

Who is this Jasmine and How can I contact her?


----------



## minivan

try ljra2@hotmail.com , he's one of the nominated dv seller, although he does not operate in ebay. i bought something from him, and he's very good. he accept paypal too


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cecala* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who is this Jasmine and How can I contact her?_

 

Jsmine's email is zhounk@hotmail.com

 She doesn't list the DV 337 on her ebay site, but she does sell it.

 Make her an offer.

 I bought from her over the other DV sellers because of the many recommendations here about her customer service.

 She is very trustworthy.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *minivan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_try ljra2@hotmail.com , he's one of the nominated dv seller, although he does not operate in ebay. i bought something from him, and he's very good. he accept paypal too_

 

What's his web site???


----------



## mikelanding

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomjtx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jsmine's email is zhounk@hotmail.com

 She doesn't list the DV 337 on her ebay site, but she does sell it.

 Make her an offer.

 I bought from her over the other DV sellers because of the many recommendations here about her customer service.

 She is very trustworthy._

 

ya...i ordered my DV332 from jasmine as well...and have a nice chat about "car" with him/her..hahaha..She type in Chinese and I replied in English..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 Mine still not ready coz i request the unit to be 240V instead of normal 110v or 220v..
zhounk@hotmail.com is the email, but she normally stay invisible though


----------



## minivan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's his web site???_

 

http://store.taobao.com/shop/view_sh...e8fe31477d3041
 this is his shop in taobao, the ebay equivalent in china.
 he sell lots of other product beside dv, i usually go after him if i want to get chinese stuff cheap


----------



## tomjtx

Jasmine shipped my DV 337 on SAt.
 I expected it on thurs. or fri. Got home from coffee at 9:30am tues. and up comes DHL with the amp.

 Very fast .

 I should have listened to the stock tubes to make sure there was no hum but no 

 Put in the rca6080 and the Phillips, should get the rca 6as7's in a few days.

 Sure enough there is the hum. So I'll wait 4 hours and post some impressions after the tubes burn in.


----------



## Skylab

The Phillips 6SJ7WGT's took more than 24 hours burn in to stop humming for me, but eventually they did become dead quiet.


----------



## Skylab

...


----------



## tomjtx

24 hours? wow, wish I had listened some stock. 

 Thanks for letting me know that so I won't go all audiophile nervosa after 4 hours.

 It's been 3 hours now and the hum has decreased in the left chanel a lot but has not decreased as much in the right channel.

 I haven't messed with tubes for a long time and I did not line up the 1st tube properly and pushed down some on the tube socket. I hope I didn't mess up anything.

 I am getting music through both channels and the amp sounds good when loud enough to drown out the hum/buzz  So everything should be OK.
 Chanel matching seems easy so far.

 I think I will be very happy with this amp.

 Is it unusual for the hum to subside unevenly from each channel?

 The unfortunate thing is I will have to go through this again when I swap out the 6080 for the 6AS7 when they arrive at the end of the week


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *minivan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://store.taobao.com/shop/view_sh...e8fe31477d3041
 this is his shop in taobao, the ebay equivalent in china.
 he sell lots of other product beside dv, i usually go after him if i want to get chinese stuff cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

good prices! IMO.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomjtx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it unusual for the hum to subside unevenly from each channel?

 The unfortunate thing is I will have to go through this again when I swap out the 6080 for the 6AS7 when they arrive at the end of the week _

 



 A. Not sure, but it has been in my case. The hum went from left channel, to right channel, and then it went away.

 B. Not necessarily. The tubes could be "hum free". Some tubes have hum, some don't. You won't have this hum _every_ time you swap tubes. It is possible some have "hum" that will never go away, but most go away after 24-48 hours, but may take even longer.

 For instance my RCA smoked glass 6SN7GTB took nearly 100 hours to be totally hum free. Yes, the hum was decreased hour-by-hour, but it wasn't totally gone for two weeks.. and I'm glad I waited, because this tube is really nice w/out the hum.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some tubes have hum, some don't. You won't have this hum every time you swap tubes._

 

True. Only one of the six tubes I own has any hum. I assume it would have gone away over time, but I was impatient and since I had others, I replaced it and will keep that one as a spare...


----------



## Skylab

Just be patient you will be fine.


----------



## tomjtx

Thanks for the help, guys.

 I also assume I didn't mess up the tube socket since I,m getting (great) sound from both chanels.

 I will try to channel Yoda and be patient.

 After all, I'm on the Xin list, what's a few days to see if hum goes away


----------



## tomjtx

4 hours and the hum is almost completely gone in the left channel and MUCH subsided in the right, enough so that I can do some real listening.

 I put on Stravinsky and I must say I am very impressed ! I don't want to say much this early on but , wow.

 Thanks , a whole lot, Skylab and Mazuki. It was your feedback that convinced me to get this amp, and it is some amp.

 Orchestral bass is magnificent, incredible dynamics, beatiful rendering of string tone.

 But I better shut up and give a few days to take it all in before saying more.


----------



## musicmind

tomtjx, I know you mentioned you didnt listen at all with the stock tubes, but I wonder if you can check if you have any humming with the stock tubes.
 I'm curious about whether jasmine checks for this when they "burn-in" your amp.

 I'd hate to have to ship back a 15kg amp if it werent checked before shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks, keep up posted on your experiences


----------



## Skylab

FWIW, when I very briefly tried the stock tubes, there was no hum.


----------



## Jo6Pak

No hum in my stock tubes either...

 EDIT: Sorry, mine is the 336i - Got my threads mixed up...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No hum in my stock tubes either...

 EDIT: Sorry, mine is the 336i - Got my threads mixed up..._

 



 They use the same stock tubes.. it's no biggie.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They use the same stock tubes.. it's no biggie. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually, that's only half true 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 337 uses the 6SJ7 driver tube, versus the 6SN7 for the 336i (and these are similar looking, but electrically very different tubes).


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, that's only half true 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 337 uses the 6SJ7 driver tube, versus the 6SN7 for the 336i (and these are similar looking, but electrically very different tubes)._

 


 Oh yeah.. I forgot. It's been a while since I read the first page... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 And Mazuki makes tube adapters for the 7N7 too, which are replacements for the 6SJ7's correct?


 EDIT: quick search on eBay shows a few 6SJ7's, and they aren't at all pricey, like some 6SN7's. Which is a good thing...


----------



## NoPants

Would this amplifier be easy to mod into use for balanced headphones due to its dual mono configuration?


----------



## Mazuki

Wow, a lot of interest in this amp lately, this is great! Finally this amp is getting the attention it deserves. 

  Quote:


 And Mazuki makes tube adapters for the 7N7 too, which are replacements for the 6SJ7's correct? 
 

7C7 are the loctal equivalents. They're even cheaper and sound at least just as good!

 I'm also in the process trying some other tubes, EF86, 6AU6 etc. I'll report back later about them. 

  Quote:


 Would this amplifier be easy to mod into use for balanced headphones due to its dual mono configuration? 
 

I don't think it can run balanced, but I'm not a circuit expert. You'd probably have to ask John Broskie or something. 

 As a side note, after finishing this Bijou (aka Cavalli Lovell Futterman) I have to admit, I haven't listened to the 337 in over a week. The bass quantity doesn't quite compare to the 337, but the darkness of the background and the clarify of the music coming out of this Bijou is really astonishing. But since I'm comparing a commercial amp to a DIY endeavor, it's apples and oranges. Long live the Darkvoice 337.


----------



## musicmind

Thanks guys for reporting back on there being no hum with the stock tubes...thats what I had presumed.

 I suppose Darkvoice or Jasmine do have some effective QC, because the only hum experienced is that with certain rolled tubes, which I'm guessing is because the auto-biasing of the amp just doesnt quite work as well with that particular make&model tube.

 Enjoy the 337, I hope some folks with access to other tube amps like Woo or SP can do some comparisons


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_tomtjx, I know you mentioned you didnt listen at all with the stock tubes, but I wonder if you can check if you have any humming with the stock tubes.
 I'm curious about whether jasmine checks for this when they "burn-in" your amp.

 I'd hate to have to ship back a 15kg amp if it werent checked before shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks, keep up posted on your experiences 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, both Jasmine and the factory check out the amp and burn in the stock tubes till no hum. jasmine emailed me while listening to make sure the amp functioned correctly.

 After 5 hours the hum was almost gone here. I just got back from playing a performance and it is 10:20pm , absolutely no hum. All tubes are dead quiet.

 This amp is phenomenal. Incredibly musical and all the seduction of tubes in the best sense. There is a lifelike presence to the sound that is uncanny.
 The dynamics are immediate and recreate the concert hall experience exceptionally well. And I mean a great concert hall.
 Some halls suck out the life and dynamics like a mediocre amp. 
 this amp is like the Myerson hall in dallas, every detail and dynamic shading is there.
 A great hall lives and breathes with the orchestra and this amp does the same.

 I am very impressed (and that is an understatement)


----------



## BushGuy

Musicmind - back in the 60's - 70's, I remember replacing tubes that would be initially just fine - then hum in 2 weeks. There are no guarantees. You could test just fine and still hummmmmmm. While I prefer the sound of tubes......they can also be a pain in the a*s (I hate to use asterisks rather than be more frank).


----------



## Skylab

Tomjtx, I am really glad to hear you like it. Nice to see another happy 337 owner! It's an astoundingly good amp for the money IMO.


----------



## tomjtx

My only complaint is a tiny chip in the paint I put there myself AARRGGHHHH!!!

 Time to buy some glossy black nail polish and make it disappear 
 It is a very tiny chip.

 I can never play a guitar for more than a week without dinging it too.........oh well.

 It is a phenomenal amp.


----------



## Gradofan2

OK... you guys say its great!

 On the other thread... they're saying its only slightly better than the DV336.

 So... who's right???


----------



## Skylab

It's significantly better, IMO.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK... you guys say its great!

 On the other thread... they're saying its only slightly better than the DV336.

 So... who's right???_

 



 That "guy" is Mazuki, and is the same person here... 



 To say the least, since I know you're interested, at least you'd be able to sell it here for a minimal loss, if you felt it wasn't worth it...


 I trust Rob's experience and knowledge. I would however, like to try the 337 against a Bada PH-12 [aka "giant killer"](both amps in house).


----------



## NoPants

have you guys tried the 337 with low impedance headphones such as grados or Audio Technicas? As I understand it darkvoice/tube amps have higher output impedance than normal and don't power these low impedance headphones effectively


----------



## Gradofan2

So... is Mazuki comparing the DV337 to the DV336... or the DV332???

 I could understand his comment... if its the latter comparison...

 The DV337 should be only "slightly better" than the DV332... but... it should be a lot better than the DV336.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DV337 should be only "slightly better" than the DV332... but... it should be a lot better than the DV336._

 


 For that price, I would except the 337 to be "a lot better" than *both* the 332 and 336. 

 The 337 is twice as expensive as the 332, and two and a half times more expensive than the 336.


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NoPants* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_have you guys tried the 337 with low impedance headphones such as grados or Audio Technicas? As I understand it darkvoice/tube amps have higher output impedance than normal and don't power these low impedance headphones effectively_

 

Isn't the AKG 701 low impedance?

 The 337 powers my 701's beautifully.

 I'm listening to a Stravinsky symphony now and I just had to turn down the volume . This amp has an astounding dynamic range and it gets the macro and micro dynamics right. There is a feeling of limitless dynamic range (power) with absolutely no strain.
 The 701's have a rep for being ineficient and hard to drive. The 337 controls 
 the 701's with effortless ease. 

 No congestion or compression in the big fortes, no sense of strain.

 Stravinsky puts big demands on an amps dynamic range sometimes going from ppp to fff instantly. This makes makes you feel like your in a great hall in terms of dynamics and getting the rythmic articulation right.


----------



## Skylab

Again, I personally think the 337 is a SIGNIFICANT step above the 336i. Soundstage, bass, transparency - lots of ways. The 336i is a very good amp. The 337 is a world-class amp.


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Again, I personally think the 337 is a SIGNIFICANT step above the 336i. Soundstage, bass, transparency - lots of ways. The 336i is a very good amp. The 337 is a world-class amp._

 

X 10

 The 337 is world class.
 I can't comment on the 336i or 332 because I haven't heard them, but I trust skylab's opinion on that.

 I have watt/Puppy's and a balanced Rowland amp in my speaker based system. 
 I have had many mega buck tube and ss amps here on loan.

 I have a close friend who is a hi end dealer who loans me mega buck stuff all the time ( I get to do the burn in.)

 The 337 is as good as any amp I have ever had in my speaker system, and that includes some 20,000+ speaker amps.

 I didn't want to say this so soon after getting the 337 , 1st impressions and all, but this is one amazing amp that has me listening more to my 701's than my Watt/Puppy's.

 I don't think I will change that opinion.

 Now all we need is one of those famous Skylab reviews of this amp.

 So, how about it Sky, come on, we are waiting


----------



## Gradofan2

That sounds better... I was thinking the DV337 should be much better... but, I wasn't hearing that on the other thread.

 Maybe... I'll still try one.


----------



## jonoliew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That "guy" is Mazuki, and is the same person here... 



 To say the least, since I know you're interested, at least you'd be able to sell it here for a minimal loss, if you felt it wasn't worth it...


 I trust Rob's experience and knowledge. I would however, like to try the 337 against a Bada PH-12 [aka "giant killer"](both amps in house)._

 

+1 on that. I too want to find out which one is better. Cause i have to buy one soon, or 3 lol. seriously.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 OK... you guys say its great!

 On the other thread... they're saying its only slightly better than the DV336.

 So... who's right??? 
 

I was comparing the 337 and the 332 actually. I have never heard a DV336. I apologise for the confusion.


----------



## Mazuki

Also, I wanted to bring this to everyone's attention. You can find the entire inside picture on the first post in this thread. I've cropped and labelled a subset of that below. 







 The socket I've labelled is the underside of my DV337's 6AS7G tube. The 6AS7G is a double triode. Notice the outputs are paralleled? That means both of the triodes are wired together to the headphone out. 

 To put this in perspective, to achieve this layout on the 336, you would need two 6AS7Gs instead of one. In the 336, only one triode is used per channel. 

 In the 332, each 6C19P tube is a single triode. So again there is only one triode per channel. 

 The 337 differs from the 336 in that it uses one entire pentode (6SJ7) to drive two triodes (one whole 6AS7G). The 336 uses 1/2 of a twin triode (6SN7) to drive 1/2 of another twin triode (half a 6AS7G). The 337 also has twice the power supply capability of the 336. 

 The 337 is similar to the 332 in that a single pentode (6AK5) is doing the driving. However, it differs again in the output where it has only one single triode (6C19P). Also, just like the 336, it only has one power supply. 

 So what exactly are you paying for in the price premium of the 337? 

 1. One more power transformer (these things are expensive)
 2. One more power supply (those high voltage electrolytic filtering caps are also expensive)
 3. One more triode output section per channel
 4. The fat 51uF SCR (Solen) output coupling capacitor per channel. 
 5. The larger case, more intricate wiring and metalwork

 Is the increase in sound quality worth it? It's up to the owner. The extra output triode section on the 337 would allow it supply more current to low impedance headphones. Cans that don't sound so hot on the 336 and 332 would probably fair better on the 337. However, since the lowest impedance headphones I have (JVC DX1000) bottom out at 64ohms, I cannot substantiate any claims about superior low impedance performance. 

 What I can say is the DV337 has a huge range of tube rolling possibilities. It sounds amazing. It's got presence. It's rare. And I love it. 

 As an aside, the closest competition to the DV337 would actually be that dual mono DV336 Fitz created a while ago. The costs of both are similar.


----------



## jonoliew

So how? would you say this dv 337 will beat the Bada ph12 and dodge?


----------



## NoPants

Can we contact the maker of the darkvoice amps directly? I'm probably going to end up purchasing this but I'd be ecstatic if this could be run balanced...sorry the "dual mono" tag just won't get out of my head haha

 Also by low impedance I was referring to grados and audio technicas which are around 32 ohms. The k701 is rated at 62 ohms but it runs more like a 250 ohm headphone last time I checked.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 So how? would you say this dv 337 will beat the Bada ph12 and dodge? 
 

First things first, it's "Doge" not an American car manufacturer. 

 You've got three different topologies right there. The 337 is a cathode follower OTL. The Bada is a tube-mosfet hybrid. The Doge is a traditional transformer coupled tube amp. 

 The reliability of the Bada in itself would discourage me from buying one. I used to own a FEEL HP200SE, also a tube-mosfet hybrid. They're good no doubt, but I think it's less fussy to stick with either all tube or all SS. 

 If you want that "traditional tube sound" go with the Doge. The non-linearities of the output transformer colors the sound, but not necessarily in a bad way. If you look at post #10 by cotd, he goes into some detail about the Doge vs. 337. My opinion conforms with his. 

 The 337 OTL topology sounds more solid state than valve based. If you have a chance check out this article on TubeCAD. The cathode follower circuit produces very little distortion and low output impedance at the expense of low gain. Fortunately this isn't a real problem with headphones. If you have more time, read up on OTL power amps such as the original Futterman or the Circlotron. The general consensus is that these amps don't sound at all like traditional transformer coupled amps. I believe this is mirrored with OTL headamps. 

 I think the best thing to do is audition all three amps and let your own ears decide. Though I can't really help but plug the amp I own, hehe. Go for the 337!


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Can we contact the maker of the darkvoice amps directly? I'm probably going to end up purchasing this but I'd be ecstatic if this could be run balanced...sorry the "dual mono" tag just won't get out of my head haha 
 

You can talk to the manufacturer directly on his administered forum:

http://www.diybuy.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=28

 I doubt you will be able to go balanced. You would need to make significant circuit modifications.


----------



## NoPants

Damn I guess balanced is just out of my league right now. Has anyone heard this alongside the 332? I'm interested in the 337 mainly but the thing is a damn behemoth.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Has anyone heard this alongside the 332? I'm interested in the 337 
 

I've ABed both (using mainly DT880s). The difference is not really very large. You do have many more tube rolling options with the 337. There are only three manufacturers of the 6C19P power tube, versus a huge handful of 6AS7, 6080, 5998, 6336, 6528, etc.


----------



## minivan

get two 337 and u will be able to go balanced


----------



## minivan

mazuki: do u know what circuit design does the yammamoto use?






 i wan tto buy the 332 but just want to make sure its different to the yammamoto i already have


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonoliew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how? would you say this dv 337 will beat the Bada ph12 and dodge?_

 

The dodge would win in a 1/4 mile drag race, but thats only because the 337 has no tires.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, couldn't resist. You might not know the 60's Dodge Dart. I had a bored out 273 and raced it , much to my parents dismay.

 The amp is a doge.


----------



## jonoliew

thanks for the info mazuki, but unfortunately, neither darkvoice, doge or bada are available in australia. at least not that i know of. and buying all 3 seems to be out of my budget by a big margin...


----------



## hawkhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonoliew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks for the info mazuki, but unfortunately, neither darkvoice, doge or bada are available in australia. at least not that i know of. and buying all 3 seems to be out of my budget by a big margin..._

 

If you contact Jasmine: zhounk@hotmail.com 

 I am sure that the 337 can be shipped to Australia


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonoliew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks for the info mazuki, but unfortunately, neither darkvoice, doge or bada are available in australia. at least not that i know of. and buying all 3 seems to be out of my budget by a big margin..._

 

Careful, you might be banished from head-fi for making a sane comment like that


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 mazuki: do u know what circuit design does the yammamoto use? 
 

I don't know what exact design it is, but it's got a single pentode per channel and contains custom wound output transformers. It's definitely different than the 332. It's also about twice the price, hehe.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 thanks for the info mazuki, but unfortunately, neither darkvoice, doge or bada are available in australia. 
 

Currency conversion aside, I think you can get really great deals importing from China to Australia. You especially don't have to worry about input voltage differences, which is where they really drain your money. 

 Also, from a value perspective, I think the Darkvoice will depreciate the least.


----------



## MaloS

If you already have a tube amplifier, why not grab an SS gain-wire to contrast it?


----------



## Mazuki

Now why would you want to go into that camp?


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now why would you want to go into that camp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So you can find out what things REALLY sound like.


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you can find out what things REALLY sound like._

 

Watch out! Thems fightin words


----------



## Skylab

I think what he meant was so you could find out just how good tube amps really are


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think what he meant was so you could find out just how good tube amps really are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ya, that's what I meant, right.


 (team hybrid remains a one-man operation)


----------



## Mazuki

Malos, you used to own a Darkvoice 332. It wasn't that bad was it? The FEEL you had for a while didn't blow everything out of the water did it?


----------



## musicmind

Mazuki, thanks for the TubeCAD site link, lots of great information there...and btw, also for the great review that got this thread started.

 Are you also still regularly using your K1000 with the 337? I never found the actual power rating for the 337, I wonder if it would fare better than the T-amp when used with a K1000?

 Thanks


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Malos, you used to own a Darkvoice 332. It wasn't that bad was it? The FEEL you had for a while didn't blow everything out of the water did it?_

 

No, Darkvoice 332 was superior. Tis a good amp.


----------



## Jo6Pak

So, what's the hierarchy here? 336 ->332 ->337, in terms of 'quality'? If so, what makes the 332 and 337 so much better? I realize you'll get more power per channel outta the 337, but what about the 332? Are the components in that one _so_ much better than in the 336i? I have had my 336i for a few weeks now and it just keeps sounding better. If DV makes something superior to it, I'm inclined to try it...


----------



## MaloS

A bit more of
 336 -------> 332 -> 337

 Different, cleaner design on bigger amps. 337 is dual mono for crying out loud, while 336 uses two dual tubes, each amping 2 channels. Basically higher you go, the more separated the channels become.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Wow, I had now idea the 336i was that far down the chain from the 332. I'm aware of the dual-ness of the 337, but I'm mostly comparing 2-channel/1-knob stuff here. IIRC from another thread, there is not much difference in price between the 336i and 332 and was curious why the 332 gets higher marks. I could be mistaken...


----------



## cclragnarok

The 332 is a newer amp than the 336 and the 337. The official word is that they used the exact same topology as the 337, and managed to make the amp smaller without losing too much sound quality.

 The 336 is a different design as far as I know. So while "336 -------> 332 -> 337" is the supposed ranking of the amps, the 336 might also sound different (as opposed to strictly inferior).

 By the way, the 332 is almost twice as expensive as the 336i in China. Over here, the price difference doesn't seem that big, but that's mostly because the (rather large) cost of shipping is about the same for both.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Mazuki, thanks for the TubeCAD site link, lots of great information there...and btw, also for the great review that got this thread started. 
 

No problem, there's a lot of articles on TubeCAD about the Cathode Follower topology. I highly recommend reading all of them. Thanks for the positive comments about my review!

  Quote:


 Are you also still regularly using your K1000 with the 337? I never found the actual power rating for the 337, I wonder if it would fare better than the T-amp when used with a K1000? 
 

The K1000s in the picture are actually borrow from a friend. I do not use them anymore. I actually read somewhere on the Darkvoice forum that the 337 might not have enough power to drive the K1000s. An inherent problem with the cathode follower circuit is it's low gain. Therefore even though it definitely did not sound bad, I fear the 337 is probably not driving the K1000 to it's fullest potential. 

 You could try building a Gainclone for your K1000s. That would most likely work better.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 The 336 is a different design as far as I know. 
 

Yes, as I mentioned previously, the 336 uses half a 6SN7 to drive half a 6AS7. 

  Quote:


 The 332 is a newer amp than the 336 and the 337. The official word is that they used the exact same topology as the 337, and managed to make the amp smaller without losing too much sound quality. 
 

Also true, the 332 and 337 both use a pentode as a driver. However the 6C19P tube used in the 332 is only half a 6AS7. So the 337 using both sections of the 6AS7 is inherently more powerful. 

  Quote:


 Are the components in that one so much better than in the 336i? 
 

All Darkvoice amps share similar components across the board. I have a feeling the 51uF SCR coupling cap on the 337 is unique. However, the transformer, filtering capacitors, resistors, etc, are all shared. All three amps have significant homology. 

 Also there are plenty of discussions regarding the differences between miniature tubes (used in 332) and octal tubes (used in 336 and 337). Many people swear octals sound better. But we're going into an entirely different territory here.


----------



## NoPants

I'm curious as to where you found those 6528 monsters...


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 I'm curious as to where you found those 6528 monsters... 
 

I was fortunate to find a nice guy on eBay that had some left-over NOS. It was a great deal, $50 for both tubes, new. 

 The 6336A tube is essentially two 6AS7 paralleled into one envelope. The 6528 tube is a 6336A with a higher mu (gain).


----------



## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also true, the 332 and 337 both use a pentode as a driver. However the 6C19P tube used in the 332 is only half a 6AS7. So the 337 using both sections of the 6AS7 is inherently more powerful._

 

I always wondered about that. Do you know what the 337 does with the two sections of a 6AS7? Push-pull maybe?


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cclragnarok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I always wondered about that. Do you know what the 337 does with the two sections of a 6AS7? Push-pull maybe?_

 

Knowing their topology, push pull would be utterly pointless, so most likely its just parallel.


----------



## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Knowing their topology, push pull would be utterly pointless, so most likely its just parallel._

 

I guess if it is push pull, then the topology wouldn't really be the same as the 332. So you are probably right.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Knowing their topology, push pull would be utterly pointless, so most likely its just parallel. 
 

If you take a look at the picture in post #99, you can clearly see the two sections of the 6AS7 are paralleled in 337.


----------



## jonoliew

so after reading alll these pages, the 337 seems to be better than the doge, and there's no real comparison with the bada ph12 (which is rather unreliable due to the mosfets). Then the 332 is close to the 337? so how close is the 332 to the doge? lol.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Then the 332 is close to the 337? so how close is the 332 to the doge? lol. 
 

The 332 is very close to the 337. However I don't necessarily think it's fair to compare the Doge to these amps.


----------



## Skylab

I think people have their greater than/less than signs confused. The 337 is the best, the 332 below that, and the 336i below that, in terms of sound quality. The 336i is a nice amp, but it's nowhere near as good sounding as the 337.


----------



## Jo6Pak

> = greater than
 < = less than

 At least that's the way it has been in any math class or electronics course I've ever taken. However, when I used that symbol (>) in my post above, I was referring to hierarchy (path, ascending), not specific values.

 Now I wish I had gotten the 332, damn...


----------



## jonoliew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 332 is very close to the 337. However I don't necessarily think it's fair to compare the Doge to these amps._

 

I dont get it. Why is it not fair to compare it? Cause its a different setup thingy? lol. I'm like struggling to make up my mind between the 332 and the doge now...


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 I dont get it. Why is it not fair to compare it? Cause its a different setup thingy? lol. 
 

Because I think their sound signatures are very different. 

  Quote:


 I'm like struggling to make up my mind between the 332 and the doge now... 
 

Get the Darkvoice. I think the build quality is better. It also looks like a tube amp. The Doge looks like a lunchbox. 

 The replacement tubes are cheaper. The Doge uses a 12AX7 and two EL84s. Those tube prices are some of the highest out there. 332 tubes cost pennies.

 The 332 is almost a dual-mono setup, in that the left and right amplification channels are separated. Only the power supply is shared. The Doge preamp section uses only a single 12AX7. 

 I think the Darkvoices are also more popular and as a result you'll have wider community support.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the Darkvoices are also more popular and as a result you'll have wider community support._

 

Good point. Also, I give a guy credit for thinking not only of himself, but others...


----------



## tomjtx

well, with head-fi having been down I was "forced" to listen more to my DV 337. 

 I have been going back and forth between 6080 and 6as7 tubes.

 I don't think I have JAN 6as7's, they are commercial RCA, so if anyone knows a good source let me know.

 The 337 continues to impress me and level matching hasn't been the PITA I was anticipating.

 the only downside to this amp is that it sounds so good it is taking me away from practicing, it's kind of hard to listen and practice guitar at the same time.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomjtx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, with head-fi having been down I was "forced" to listen more to my DV 337. 

 I have been going back and forth between 6080 and 6as7 tubes.

 I don't think I have JAN 6as7's, they are commercial RCA, so if anyone knows a good source let me know.

 The 337 continues to impress me and level matching hasn't been the PITA I was anticipating.

 the only downside to this amp is that it sounds so good it is taking me away from practicing, it's kind of hard to listen and practice guitar at the same time._

 

Vacuum Tubes, Electron Tubes, Tubes, Tube Testers and Electronic Parts has the RAC CRC JAN 6AS7's for $20 + $9 shipping, last time I emailed him last week. Till I get mine I am using a black plate RCA 6AS7


----------



## tomjtx

Thanks, Larry, I'll check them out.

 Good to be back on head-fi, eh?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomjtx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Larry, I'll check them out.

 Good to be back on head-fi, eh?_

 

Sure is! Hi Larry, Hi Tom.

 I do find the JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7s to sound better than the standard versions. 

 With the 337, a pair of good 6SJ7WGTs is also very important. I have been trying a few different ones, as well as some of the loctal 7C7 versions. This is a bit of a time consuming process since true NOS 6SJ7's are horribly buzzy for quite a while before the become silent. I will report that back soon. 

 I bought a used SinglePower Extreme, and I have compared that to the Darkvoice 337. The Darkvoice is the better amp IMO.


----------



## tomjtx

Good to hear the JAN's sound better.

 The commercial ones seemed a bit less tight in the bass , had less detail and less dynamics than my 6080's, at least in my initial impressions.

 I really have to do some more comparisons, though, because I could easily change my mind, so please don't quote me 

 Also good to hear you like the DV better than the SinglePower, now I don't have to spend more money.

 BTW, if you do find a better amp than the DV will you please just lie and say the DV rules?
 My wallet hurts enough as it is


----------



## NoPants

I thought the tubes used were 6sj7, not 6sa7?

 And to clarify, the 6528s are equivalent to 6336a?

 Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

The DV 337 uses 6SJ7 driver tubes, and 6AS7 power tubes. 

 I am not sure if the DV will accommodate some of the "alternatives" to the 6AS7. Only the 6080 is truly identical. The 5998, 2399, 421a, 6528, 6336, 7208, and 7236, are all electrically different enough from the 6AS7/6080 that they might cause problems.

 I will say that the 5998's sound better than the 6AS7's in my SinglePower extreme, so I would love to try these in the DV337, but I am afraid to. Has anyone tried them?


----------



## tomjtx

Does anyone speak chinese that could post a tube inquiry on the DV forum
 about the 5998?

 Maybe Jasmine would do that for us?


----------



## Skylab

As good as Jasmine's service has been for me, and it's been top-notch, Jasmine has never answered any of my tube-rolling questions...


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think people have their greater than/less than signs confused. The 337 is the best, the 332 below that, and the 336i below that, in terms of sound quality. The 336i is a nice amp, but it's nowhere near as good sounding as the 337._

 

All the discussion around these Darkvoice amps makes them a very tempting option. Price wise I think they would be hard to beat. (That is unless Skylab had not sold his ASL while the site was down and I'd had a chance to buy it!)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Skylab, with the general opinion seeming to be that there isn't a HUGE difference in sound between the 337 and the 332 would you think the 332 to be a better choice than the ASL?


----------



## Skylab

I really can't say without having heard the 332. But the 337 is quite a bit better than the ASL MG head, which itself is a very nice amp.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All the discussion around these Darkvoice amps makes them a very tempting option. Price wise I think they would be hard to beat. (That is unless Skylab had not sold his ASL while the site was down and I'd had a chance to buy it!)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Skylab, with the general opinion seeming to be that there isn't a HUGE difference in sound between the 337 and the 332 would you think the 332 to be a better choice than the ASL?_

 

I really can't say without having heard the 332. But the 337 is quite a bit better than the ASL MG head, which itself is a very nice amp.


----------



## Hellenback

Just not nice enough to keep when you have a DV337!


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really can't say without having heard the 332. But the 337 is quite a bit better than the ASL MG head, which itself is a very nice amp._

 

Heh, have you heard an MG with completely replaced internals? Quite quite something... (just curiosity).


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 I am not sure if the DV will accommodate some of the "alternatives" to the 6AS7. Only the 6080 is truly identical. The 5998, 2399, 421a, 6528, 6336, 7208, and 7236, are all electrically different enough from the 6AS7/6080 that they might cause problems. 
 

The main difference between the 6AS7 and 5998, besides the higher quality construction, is the mu. It's only 2 in the 6AS7 but 5.4 in the 5998. Basically, the 5998 is a higher gain tube than the 6AS7. The result is better performance for lower impedance headphones. 

 The 6336A is basically 2 6AS7 in parallel and the 6528 is basically 2 5998s in parallel.


----------



## tomjtx

Mazuki,
 thanks for that info. Does that mean the 5998 will work in the 337?

 What tubes are you using now?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heh, have you heard an MG with completely replaced internals? Quite quite something... (just curiosity)._

 


 Which modifications are you speaking of and how much would it ultimately cost?
 I really like the 5 year warranty and local support for the ASL (as well as it's stock sound). If there is a future upgrade that takes it to another level I would be very interested in hearing about it. I love things that are a little future proof! (I don't want to thread-jack though so if there is a better place for this question/answer I'd be happy to move it on over.)


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which modifications are you speaking of and how much would it ultimately cost?
 I really like the 5 year warranty and local support for the ASL (as well as it's stock sound). If there is a future upgrade that takes it to another level I would be very interested in hearing about it. I love things that are a little future proof! (I don't want to thread-jack though so if there is a better place for this question/answer I'd be happy to move it on over.)_

 

The amp was modded by Empirical Audio, they told me that essentially the eternals were entirely replaced by higher quality components (the components used by ASL are not much to write home about, heh). Overall, including expensive tubes, the resulting mods cost sub-$400. I am not sure if they offer the mod now, but it sounded quite nice, very tubey but now refined also.

 Although mind you, if you like the sound of MG Head, it would be a better idea to go for DT32, no?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The amp was modded by Empirical Audio, they told me that essentially the eternals were entirely replaced by higher quality components (the components used by ASL are not much to write home about, heh). Overall, including expensive tubes, the resulting mods cost sub-$400. I am not sure if they offer the mod now, but it sounded quite nice, very tubey but now refined also.

 Although mind you, if you like the sound of MG Head, it would be a better idea to go for DT32, no?_

 

I have such limited experience with headphone amps, and tube amps in particular (read, I've heard the ASL and that's it!) that the fact that I "like" the sound of the ASL MG MKIII means very little. I'm sure there are lot of other amps I'd probably like more. I'm just looking to get into a decent tube headphone amp for < $400. The fact that the ASL has a separate power supply has always impressed me. It led me to believe that something like you mentioned (Mazuki) could be done at a later date if I wanted a better sounding amp. The Darkvoice 332 sounds impressive, but there hasn't been a direct comparison of it and the ASL and Skylab said he liked the ASL better than the 336i. I would prefer to get an amp that can be serviced locally if anything goes wrong, as my income is less than limited! I'd love to go for the 337 but I just don't have $700 I can spend on a dedicated headphone amp right now. I'm still wrestling with the price of headphone amps in general, given the fact that you can get a pretty good sounding surround sound receiver for $500. (Or at least you could in 2000 when I bought my Yamaha RXV495) I figure$700 would be the cost today of something with equivalent specs. I know it's a niche market and there isn't the volume to bring the price down yet, but it doesn't seem to be improving with the news of the Meier, Headamp, and Headroom amp price hikes. All I have right now is a Xenos 1HA-EPC, which to be perfectly honest doesn't sound that much better than the headphone out of my Yamaha amp with the Sen 650s. Maybe it's a good headphone out but I'm sure you get my point. The ASL sounded significantly better than the Xenos. Better enough to spend $400 or so. The "future proof" comment pretty much sums up my preference due to financial constraints. If I get the ASL, and live with it for three to five years, then either the price of headphone amps will have gone down by then or I will be able to build a better amp in the enclosure (with a separate power supply) for less than the cost of an entirely new and better amp. If $400 makes a new amp out of the ASL, (one that can compete with today's $700 amps) then it is looking like a good investment. (Now I've really thread-jacked I won't bug you any more on this one, but comments are welcome.)


----------



## MaloS

I owned Darkvoice 332 (same price pretty much), as a stock it is superior to MG Head by a large margin, one of my fav single-ended amplilfiers.

 That being said, replacing all components of MG Head is a nice mod...but what is stopping you from doing the same with the Darkvoice, eh? If you are willing to later build an amp, then you will have some monstrous options (maxed Millet Hybrid in dual-mono balanced setup could be quite something, or if you get a taste for solid-state, one can manage a very nice B22 build for around 700 dollars). So if you are choosing an amp for time being, choose an amp that you can also resell. I am pretty certain that something like Darkvoice 332 or Gilmore Lite will not go down in value by much, but MG Heads go for $200-250 used (while $400 new), which means if you want to avoid losing much value you will have to go for a used one right off the bat.

 Cheers, just my 2c.

 Oh and on the case of separate power supply - take a good tube amp with internal power supply...say, SinglePower mpx3, or Darkvoice 332/337 - you will notice that they are substantially larger in size than the MG Head. Your call what's more impressive...while I had the Darkvoice, everyone who walked into my room said 'holy crap what is that, its size alone makes it awesome!' (or along those lines)...lets not even mention the comments I got with regards to the FEEL HP200SE I got off Skylab.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Mazuki,
 thanks for that info. Does that mean the 5998 will work in the 337?

 What tubes are you using now? 
 

Yes, the 5998 will work perfectly fine with the 337. If you can get your hands on a pair, that would be superb. 

 I'm using a pair of RCA 7C7 loctals and a pair of RCA JAN-CRC 6AS7s currently.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 FEEL HP200SE I got off Skylab. 
 

That Skylab got off me, hehe. 

  Quote:


 The "future proof" comment pretty much sums up my preference due to financial constraints. 
 

As long as you keep reading Head-Fi, I don't think future-proofing is possible. Something new always pops up.

  Quote:


 So if you are choosing an amp for time being, choose an amp that you can also resell. 
 

MaloS cannot be more correct. Resell ability is something to keep in mind. If you're just starting out in this hobby, always buy used. You'll save a lot of money and yet still be able to sample a lot of equipment. 

  Quote:


 That being said, replacing all components of MG Head is a nice mod...but what is stopping you from doing the same with the Darkvoice, eh? 
 

I don't think changing all the components in the amp will significantly alter the sonic character of the circuit topology. 

 What kind of source do you have? That makes a huge difference in my opinion. 

 Don't forget, the single most important link in the chain is the set of headphones you are using.


----------



## Hellenback

I'm using HD650s and I'm sticking with them. I love their sound. It's like the HD600 with some muscle. A decent amp pretty much clears up the misconception it isn't as detailed, it just has more sound so needs a better amp to separate and distinguish the frequencies. (Always IMO) If you liked the 332 that much better Malos I appreciate/respect your input. I nearly sprang for one on ebay with Casque but the bid went within $5 of what it costs to buy outright from the store and I think there are better communication options when dealing directly with "Audiophile China". I think I'll sit back and listen to the music on what I have for awhile and keep my ears open (so to speak). Thanks again Malos for the head's up on the 332, and to Mazuki for putting up with me in his thread (and his validation of what's been said). If the 332 is a clear winner sound wise, then it seems like the one to go for at the $400 mark. By the way, my source is a Pioneer universal 563a. No DAC yet, and I know it isn't the best, but I've certainly heard worse!


----------



## MaloS

No need for a DAC (unless you need to use PC), you can always just get a nice CDP. Somewhat old ones command very reserved prices on the used market, and will probably give you the best run for the budget =]


----------



## MJ_Deer

Hello guys!

 I just wanted to let you know that the DV337 fan club has expanded again. I bought mine some weeks ago from Casque Hifi / AudiophileChina. Aside from a small bump in one corner, the amp arrived in good condition. And the price, 648 US$ including shipping, wasn't too bad.

 This is my first headphone amp, so I cannot really compare the amp to any other dedicated one. In itself, I have to say that I simply love it. My K701s sounded very nice indeed, I couldn't help but to grin when listening to the combo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If you wonder about the past tense, sadly enough, I haven't been able to do any listening for more than a week now. A NOS Sylvania GB6080 decided to arc at first power-up, breaking the right side element of the phones before I could turn the power off. I'm still waiting for the repair... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In a sense I was lucky that I didn't have the phones on my ears when it happened, I can imagine that my ear drum would have suffered serious damage as well.

 As for now, I've tried some 6AS7s and 6080s on the triode side and various 6SJ7s, GTs and WGTs on the pentode side. My favourite ones for the moment are 6AS7Gs from Bentley Acoustic Corporation and 6SJ7WGT Gold Brands from Sylvania, but Sylvania GB6080s and RCA 5693s come in close. (To be completely honest, the greatest difference I've heard so far was when I changed the stock tubes away.)

 I'll post some more impressions when I get my phones back. Right now the only ones I have are some old Technics in-ear-gadgets which don't really represent the pinnacle in sound quality. It has to be said though that even those do sound abnormally terrific with the 337.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since the K701s are quite low impedance phones, I've been thinking of trying some more exotic triodes like 5998 or 6528, if I would be lucky enough to come across a pair with a decent price. Do you have any opinion on how they match with the K701s?


----------



## Skylab

First of all, welcome to head-fi! And congrats on your 337 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I actually wouldn't recommend the 5998 with the K701. The K701 isn't warm sounding, and the 5998 are less warm than the 6AS7. Just my opinion of course.


----------



## fhuang

hi Skylab, since you have an opera, how do you compare the 337 and opera? is there a better one or do they sound completely different? i know opera is SS and 337 is tube but that's all i know. and i'm asking because i can see myself getting some 600 ohm beyer, from dt770 to 990 some day. maybe 880.


----------



## Skylab

It's really very difficult to compare a tube amp and a SS amp. Both these amps are excellent, but they sound quite different. 

 I do think that the 600 ohm Beyers do better with tube amps, in general, however.


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's really very difficult to compare a tube amp and a SS amp. Both these amps are excellent, but they sound quite different. 

 I do think that the 600 ohm Beyers do better with tube amps, in general, however._

 


 i'm tiny bit surprise because i read meier audio pair great with beyer. i also like headfive with dt990 pro myself. but thanks anyway. you just saved me the fund for a pair of 600 ohm beyer. yea 337 is that "cheap" in Hong Kong.


----------



## tomjtx

mj,
 I think the 701 and 337 are perfect match,

 Congratulations


----------



## NoPants

I just placed a down payment a few days ago, how long did it take for all you guys to receive your units?


----------



## Mazuki

I went into a store and bought mine, and then shipped it back to the US myself, so I guess my experience is a bit different.


----------



## MJ_Deer

In my case the delivery was really fast, only a few days from the payment. I was positively surprised with that. In fact, the customs procedures took nearly as long as the shipping, or that's at least how it felt at the time...


----------



## tomjtx

Awhile back I posted I might prefer the 6080 in the DV337 but that I needed to give the 6AS7 another listen to confirm that impression.

 I do actually have the JAN RCA 6AS7 NOS and not the commercial ones I thought I had.

 I took a last listen to the 6080 before reinserting the 6AS7.

 Well, 1st impressions can be wrong and , boy, was I wrong 

 The 6AS7 has all the detail and bass but is much more organic and lush sounding. There really is no contest for me, I far prefer the 6AS7.

 The 6080 is more hard edged. It doesn't have more detail, it just has a bit too agressive a presentation of that detail.

 This can be impressive at first but becomes a bit fatiguing in the long run.

 Actually the 6AS7 presents more information.

 eg. I here more of the echo of Diana Kralls voice on Love Scenes with the 6AS7.

 Her voice is smoother, warmer , with less hard edge.

 I am very glad I didn't trust my 1st impression and retried the 6AS7.


----------



## Skylab

That exactly mirrors my experience.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

My used black plate RCA 6AS7G was damaged (broken key) and 48 hours of running didn't help the hum in my 336i. Rather than try a new grey plate RCA I installed a used Raytheon 6080. 

 I don't find this 6080 fatiguing, but I can't say it sounds any different than my iBasso D1 with AD797 opamps - i.e. sounds SS not tubey. 

 My NOS JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7G just arrived today, so I'll be listening this weekend. Hopefully I'll hear the same where you found, "The 6AS7 has all the detail and bass but is much more organic and lush sounding".

 I know the 336i isn't a 337, but I'd think that observations in the 6AS7G would translate between the two, somewhat.


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My used black plate RCA 6AS7G was damaged (broken key) and 48 hours of running didn't help the hum in my 336i. Rather than try a new grey plate RCA I installed a used Raytheon 6080. 

 I don't find this 6080 fatiguing, but I can't say it sounds any different than my iBasso D1 with AD797 opamps - i.e. sounds SS not tubey. 

 My NOS JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7G just arrived today, so I'll be listening this weekend. Hopefully I'll hear the same where you found, "The 6AS7 has all the detail and bass but is much more organic and lush sounding".

 I know the 336i isn't a 337, but I'd think that observations in the 6AS7G would translate between the two, somewhat._

 


 Let us know what you think. I look forward to your impressions.


----------



## Mazuki

I've just tried some 6SN7s in the output tube position, substituting the 6AS7/6080 tubes. 

 I'm happy to report that even though I must now turn the volume knob significantly higher, the sound is brilliant. I wouldn't say it's better than the 6AS7/6080 tubes since I haven't done back and forth comparisons. However I am pleasantly surprised with their sound.


----------



## Mazuki

As an added bonus, due to the significantly lower heater current draw of the 6SN7s, the amp now hardly gets warm at all, a real boon for prolonging equipment life.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

So far, with 2 hours of burn-in the NOS JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7G is a little less clinical. I do notice that is doesn't drive the HD600 quite as loud, but maybe only 1-2db less volume than before, and probably still 3-4db louder than my iBasso D1.

 Also, saxophones are a little less squawky with more low frequency harmonics and not quite as high pitched. Piano's seem to have more realistic ambience, and now I can hear not just the higher piano notes towards the right and the lower keys towards the left; but the higher notes are closer to me than the lower notes, so the piano is actually on the stage diagonally. I had never noticed this before.

 This is with JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G used in combination with a nice (read not cheap) Hytron-CBS 5692 brown base 6SN7GT type input tube, which the 337 doesn't use. The Hytron was just a bit warmer and more forward than the CBS 6SN7GTB I was using before. This is using a Sony D-303 optical out into iBasso D1 DAC, with DAC line out to the DV336i.

 So, I am leaving this tube combo in place. I have a few 6080 and a grey plate RCA I can fall back on if I have trouble (plus some Svetlana 6AS7GT if I feel brave). After the weekend, I might try the 6080 again, and see what happens. (Skyab, why doesn't the Hytron brown base glow?)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

heh heh,

 Switching to my unburned-in Proline 2500, and it sounds like I went back to the old tubes... Yikes!


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Switching to my unburned-in Proline 2500, and it sounds like I went back to the old tubes... Yikes! 
 

That's a good thing right?

  Quote:


 So far, with 2 hours of burn-in the NOS JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7G is a little less clinical. I do notice that is doesn't drive the HD600 quite as loud, but maybe only 1-2db less volume than before, and probably still 3-4db louder than my iBasso D1.

 Also, saxophones are a little less squawky with more low frequency harmonics and not quite as high pitched. Piano's seem to have more realistic ambience, and now I can hear not just the higher piano notes towards the right and the lower keys towards the left; but the higher notes are closer to me than the lower notes, so the piano is actually on the stage diagonally. I had never noticed this before.

 This is with JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G used in combination with a nice (read not cheap) Hytron-CBS 5692 brown base 6SN7GT type input tube, which the 337 doesn't use. The Hytron was just a bit warmer and more forward than the CBS 6SN7GTB I was using before. This is using a Sony D-303 optical out into iBasso D1 DAC, with DAC line out to the DV336i.

 So, I am leaving this tube combo in place. I have a few 6080 and a grey plate RCA I can fall back on if I have trouble (plus some Svetlana 6AS7GT if I feel brave). After the weekend, I might try the 6080 again, and see what happens. (Skyab, why doesn't the Hytron brown base glow?) 
 

Have you done any rolling of the driver tube (6SJ7)? You might find changing that to be even more rewarding.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just tried some 6SN7s in the output tube position, substituting the 6AS7/6080 tubes. 

 I'm happy to report that even though I must now turn the volume knob significantly higher, the sound is brilliant. I wouldn't say it's better than the 6AS7/6080 tubes since I haven't done back and forth comparisons. However I am pleasantly surprised with their sound._

 

Ha! This opens up a WHOLE NEW angle of tube rolling possibilities. There must be a zillion 6SN7 tube options. Mike, do you think the slightly higher-gain 6SL7 would work even better?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As an added bonus, due to the significantly lower heater current draw of the 6SN7s, the amp now hardly gets warm at all, a real boon for prolonging equipment life._

 

Yeah, the 6AS7 is quite the current hog. I need to find a second CBS-Hytron JAN 5692 so I have a pair I can use in the 337. Very cool!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ (Skyab, why doesn't the Hytron brown base glow?)_

 

It does, it's just VERY hard to see. The construction of the 5692, along with the chrome top, makes it very hard to see the filament glowing. But it is in there.

 I confess, I like to see tubes glowing. I like the Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB clear-top tall-bottle for this reason. Great sounding tube, and oh-so pretty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Aesthetics are also one reason I like 6AS7's, in addition to their wonderful tone (but all that glowing in the 6AS7 is what makes them little heat pumps...)


----------



## Skylab

I have been spending time finding my favorite driver tube for the 337, and I think I have. While the JAN Phillips 6SN7WGT's are terrific, the mesh-plate Tung-Sol JAN-CTL 6SJ7GT/VT-116A sound better to me. They and SOOO liquid and smooth in the mids, my gosh it's breathtaking. These are hard to find, alas, but they sound very, very good.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Can anyone compare the darkvoice 332/337 sound signature to the singlepower ppx3 slam? Especially concerning soundstage?


----------



## Mazuki

Here's a picture of 5693 and 6SN7 tubes in my 337:






  Quote:


 Ha! This opens up a WHOLE NEW angle of tube rolling possibilities. There must be a zillion 6SN7 tube options. Mike, do you think the slightly higher-gain 6SL7 would work even better? 
 

Yeah, the possibilities are now endless. The 6SL7 would work as well, not sure how it's higher mu will affect performance. Theoretically, it should be able to pass more current (for low impedance headphones). 

  Quote:


 I have been spending time finding my favorite driver tube for the 337, and I think I have. While the JAN Phillips 6SN7WGT's are terrific, the mesh-plate Tung-Sol JAN-CTL 6SJ7GT/VT-116A sound better to me. They and SOOO liquid and smooth in the mids, my gosh it's breathtaking. These are hard to find, alas, but they sound very, very good. 
 

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I have a pair of these as well. The problem was that one was humming really loudly so I wasn't able to properly get a feel of their sound. These pentodes sure are tricky. 

  Quote:


 Can anyone compare the darkvoice 332/337 sound signature to the singlepower ppx3 slam? Especially concerning soundstage? 
 

They're probably all excellent and similar to each other. The Slam range has a lot of bass energy and so does the Darkvoice range.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's a picture of 5693 and 6SN7 tubes in my 337:

 Yeah, the possibilities are now endless. The 6SL7 would work as well, not sure how it's higher mu will affect performance. Theoretically, it should be able to pass more current (for low impedance headphones). 

 Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I have a pair of these as well. The problem was that one was humming really loudly so I wasn't able to properly get a feel of their sound. These pentodes sure are tricky. 
_

 

Great pic! I am going to try some of these driver tubes.

 I will say the 6SJ7's are indeed a fussy tube, or "tricky" as you said while I think they sound excellent, I actually have had a very hard time finding ones that would completely quiet down. This has been a little frustrating, since I have been buying NOS tubes, and ALL of them buzz/hum like crazy for hours when first put in. Then it's a question of whether they ever get quiet, which some have, and others haven't. In my experience so far, it's been about 50-50, but it's a ridiculously time consuming process figuring this out, and of course you can't really listen to the amp while this is going on.

 I now have two sets of good tubes, and I think I am going to stick with these until I have an actual need to replace them. So I may do some power tube rolling like you have been. I have a pair of nice brown-base 6SL7's coming, and I am going to try those.


----------



## MaloS

Skylab, did you try dampeners for the 'fuzzy' tubes ? I am curious about how this effects the sound in Darkvoices.


----------



## Skylab

Actually Malos that's a great idea, I will have to order a pair.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
Switching to my unburned-in Proline 2500, and it sounds like I went back to the old tubes... Yikes!

 

That's a good thing right?_

 

No, the 2500 was less warm and more clinical than my HD600. I only have about 24 hours on the Proline 2500 so far. I need 325 more hours on them...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
So far, with 2 hours of burn-in the NOS JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7G is a little less clinical. I do notice that is doesn't drive the HD600 quite as loud, but maybe only 1-2db less volume than before, and probably still 3-4db louder than my iBasso D1.

 Also, saxophones are a little less squawky with more low frequency harmonics and not quite as high pitched. Piano's seem to have more realistic ambience, and now I can hear not just the higher piano notes towards the right and the lower keys towards the left; but the higher notes are closer to me than the lower notes, so the piano is actually on the stage diagonally. I had never noticed this before.

 This is with JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G used in combination with a nice (read not cheap) Hytron-CBS 5692 brown base 6SN7GT type input tube, which the 337 doesn't use. The Hytron was just a bit warmer and more forward than the CBS 6SN7GTB I was using before. This is using a Sony D-303 optical out into iBasso D1 DAC, with DAC line out to the DV336i.

 So, I am leaving this tube combo in place. I have a few 6080 and a grey plate RCA I can fall back on if I have trouble (plus some Svetlana 6AS7GT if I feel brave). After the weekend, I might try the 6080 again, and see what happens. (Skyab, why doesn't the Hytron brown base glow?)

 

Have you done any rolling of the driver tube (6SJ7)? You might find changing that to be even more rewarding.._

 

I had a CBS 6SN7GTB black plate in the driver (a nice tube) before the Hytron 5692 Brown Base. I said above, "The Hytron was just a bit warmer and more forward than the CBS 6SN7GTB I was using before." i.e. better. Those are the only two driver tubes I have tried so far. The current 5692 driver tube was recommended by Skylab. I also have more driver tubes to try, like an Raytheon 6SN7GT from Skylab, A vintage sounding 1965 Radiator brand 6SN7GT, a TungSol brown base reissue (rec by Skylab), and a Sovtek 6SN7GT.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 I had a CBS 6SN7GTB black plate in the driver (a nice tube) before the Hytron 5692 Brown Base. I said above, "The Hytron was just a bit warmer and more forward than the CBS 6SN7GTB I was using before." i.e. better. Those are the only two driver tubes I have tried so far. The current 5692 driver tube was recommended by Skylab. I also have more driver tubes to try, like an Raytheon 6SN7GT from Skylab, A vintage sounding 1965 Radiator brand 6SN7GT, a TungSol brown base reissue (rec by Skylab), and a Sovtek 6SN7GT. 
 

Whoa, the driver tubes are in the back (smaller ones) and the power tubes are in the front (coke bottle shaped). You aren't running those 6SN7s in the driver position are you?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I mentioned before that I have a 336i, and was originally only commenting on the 6AS7G that the two amps have in common (bigger ST shaped tube) which is interchangable with the 6080. It was about the JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G being better than a 6080.

 In the 336i the 6AS7G or 6080 is the power tube, and 6SN7GT is the driver (preamp) for the 336i.


----------



## djork

i walked into a shop in HK, bought a 337, and now i'm happily in my room listening to it. fantastic stuff, even with just the stock tubes.


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i walked into a shop in HK, bought a 337, and now i'm happily in my room listening to it. fantastic stuff, even with just the stock tubes._

 

Glad you like it.
 Wait till you start tube rolling, it gets even better


----------



## Skylab

Djork, welcome to the 337 club. It's a great amp indeed.


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i walked into a shop in HK, bought a 337, and now i'm happily in my room listening to it. fantastic stuff, even with just the stock tubes._

 


 djork, did you get it from the place? i know only one place here selling the darkvoice, or any darkvoice. if not, can you pm me? 
 thanks


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_djork, did you get it from the place? i know only one place here selling the darkvoice, or any darkvoice. if not, can you pm me? 
 thanks_

 

Yeah i guess the only place is at MK, at mingos. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i'd love to audition a 332, too bad they don't carry any. I bought the display set (though it has been running for months), so i won't have to wait for the break in.. currently bidding for some RCA 6AS7G on ebay


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_djork, did you get it from the place? i know only one place here selling the darkvoice, or any darkvoice. if not, can you pm me? 
 thanks_

 

just to add, are you thinking of dropping by to grab it, since you're in HK?


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just to add, are you thinking of dropping by to grab it, since you're in HK?_

 


 it's holiday season so i don't think i have the fund to get one of those but i think i'm going to.


 and did you get any extra discount for the display unit?


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's holiday season so i don't think i have the fund to get one of those but i think i'm going to.


 and did you get any extra discount for the display unit?_

 

no discounts, but i don't mind, since it has been burned in, and the warranty still goes for a year. i auditioned the 337 and the 336 at mingo's. by any chance you might be a student?


----------



## Canuck57

I'm joining the DV 337 team! 

 I placed my order last night. I'm looking fwd to listening with the K340s and JVC DX1000s!


----------



## Skylab

Congrats! It's HEAVENLY with the DX1000s. Make sure to get some better tubes


----------



## tomjtx

x2 on the congrats and tube rolling.

 BTW I just got some Herbies tube dampers and they make a nice improvement.


----------



## Godkin

I've tried Herbie's tube dampers on the 332 and was very impressed with the results: sound was more open and detailed, timbre of the music improved, though the bass was a little lighter.


----------



## Skylab

x3 on the Herbie's dampers - definitely like them.


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x3 on the Herbie's dampers - definitely like them._

 

So did you actually get some? Any more specific things to comment on with them?


----------



## Skylab

I did get some, using them on my Singlepower extreme. They did seem to lower the overall noise floor a little, which is always a good thing.


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did get some, using them on my Singlepower extreme. They did seem to lower the overall noise floor a little, which is always a good thing._

 

What about with the particular tubes on 337 that you said had some fuzziness going?


----------



## Skylab

I haven't tried that yet - I need to order a second one for that tube size...

 But the problem I was having with the 337 turned out to be a 6AS7G that had gone badly microphonic.


----------



## Podster

Sky, two questions.

 Do you really ride around on your bike with those Audio Technica's on? :-0

 Do you have your home amps posted in order of favorite down? 

 I don't know if you caught me in the thread about the Bugle Boys but I'm about to pull the trigger on the old MG one way or the other! (i know I know, it is a sickness)


----------



## Skylab

No, my gear is not listen in preference order, exactly...maybe I should...really more in the order I got it in. Kind of a PITA to move them around.

 And I don't own a bike


----------



## Podster

THX, I just can't see myself running around with those AT phones as my portable :-0 

 Portable could just be moving about the casa so I understand it just looks funny when you call it your portable rig with full sized cans. Heck, I liked your old portable rig with the LaRocca strapped to the Tank 

 I'm going to wait out a while (and Administrations) to see if the dollar gains any ground before purchasing an Iqube but I'm sure I'll be going there one day too LOL


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats! It's HEAVENLY with the DX1000s. Make sure to get some better tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Skylab... to save me reading through this long thread, what tubes are your favourite in the 337 and where's the best place to buy them? 

 I like a good solid bottom end (bass head!) with slam & impact without the bass being boomy/flabby and over powering the mids/highs and don't like piercing fatiguing highs.


----------



## Mazuki

The RCA JAN 6AS7Gs are pretty good. You could also give the Phillips 6SJ7WGTs a try too.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The RCA JAN 6AS7Gs are pretty good. You could also give the Phillips 6SJ7WGTs a try too._

 

Yup! That's what I have settled on. RCA JAN-CRC 6AS7G's, and JAN Phillips 6SJ7WGT's. You can easily get the 6SJ7WGT's brand new from Angela Instruments on EBay, $24.95/pair. The RCA - JAN 6AS7G's are a little harder to get - you have to win some on EBay - I don't know anywhere that flat-out sells them, although you could check with Antique Electronics Supply (Antique Electronic Supply).


----------



## djork

just bought 2 pairs of Philips JAN 6SN7WGT from ebay at 24.99 per pair...


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 just bought 2 pairs of Philips JAN 6SN7WGT from ebay at 24.99 per pair 
 

Don't forget to run them in for a couple of hours or else they hum like crazy.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, they will eventually become dead quiet, but mine took a good 8 hours before that finally happened.


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup! That's what I have settled on. RCA JAN-CRC 6AS7G's, and JAN Phillips 6SJ7WGT's. You can easily get the 6SJ7WGT's brand new from Angela Instruments on EBay, $24.95/pair. The RCA - JAN 6AS7G's are a little harder to get - you have to win some on EBay - I don't know anywhere that flat-out sells them, although you could check with Antique Electronics Supply (Antique Electronic Supply)._

 

Thanks Skylab...ok...which tubes go where (front/back)


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Canuck57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Skylab...ok...which tubes go where (front/back) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Aha...so you chose go for the 337, lets see how it compares to the Millet Hybrid in your book. =]


----------



## tomjtx

The 6AS7's go in the front.

 I use the same combo and it sounds great.

 I have some 6SL7's on the way to try out in front as well.


----------



## Canuck57

I've been searching for replacement tubes and have noticed quite a range in prices for the 6AS7G tubes. The cost of a pair is as high as $110 

 For the tube experts out there, do the the higher priced tubes provide a significant increase in SQ? How much would you recommend to pay for a pair of 6AS7Gs


----------



## Mazuki

As with most tube amps, I think replacing the input tube (6SJ7) changes the sound more than the output tube (6AS7). 

 The most I paid for the input tube was ~$25 for the pair of 6SJ7WGTs. The most I paid for the output tube was ~$50 for a pair of 6528s.

 Those are my limits. Yours may vary but I think at prices beyond those two, you'll be hitting extremely limited returns.

 Also, I finally made a mod to my 337, it was quick and dirty because I didn't want to solder just yet. 






 How does it sound? I'm going to let it burn in a little longer before making real conclusions. I'm hoping the better dielectric characteristics of teflon caps (paralleled with the current 51uF MKP Solens) will improve the sound. There's actually no room in the amp to fit these beasts, that's why they're on top.


----------



## Canuck57

Thanks Mazuki, that helps a lot!


----------



## Skylab

I haven't paid more than $30/pair for 6AS7G's, nor would I.

 Mazuki, let us know how the mods sound!


----------



## djork

Yes indeed.. looking forward to your comments on the mod.
 I'm still waiting for my RCA 6AS7Gs and philips 6SJ7WGTs to arrive...


----------



## Gradofan2

"You hope teflon caps will Improve the sound" in what way... Mazuki?

 What SQ do you find needs improvement in the DV337?

 Or... are you just "experimenting" to see if there is any noticable improvement in any way - not that the DV337 needs them???


----------



## NoPants

I just got an email from alex saying that my 337 shipped, and that since I'm in new york right now, it'll ship even faster? well here's to hoping! looking for some of those high current alternative output tubes to use on the AD2000s, if there's anything in particular I should look for let me know, thanks! I've been around a month or so without an amp now and it sucks quite a bit haha


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 What SQ do you find needs improvement in the DV337? 
 

I think the Darkvoice 337 in completely stock form (even stock tubes) sounds very good. 
  Quote:


 Or... are you just "experimenting" to see if there is any noticable improvement in any way - not that the DV337 needs them??? 
 

Tube rolling is the first experimentation step. After playing around with them, I thought I would give other components a try. The output coupling capacitor is great place to experiment with sound. Since it is directly in the signal path, it can have a not insignificant impact on sound. 

 Teflon caps have different sonic characteristics to Metallised polypropylene (MKP) caps. I'm hoping by putting them in parallel to the stock caps, I can get a different sound signature.


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the Darkvoice 337 in completely stock form (even stock tubes) sounds very good._

 

Yeah i agree... had a listen before i dropped in the 5693. pretty impressive in stock form.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Teflon caps have different sonic characteristics to Metallised polypropylene (MKP) caps. I'm hoping by putting them in parallel to the stock caps, I can get a different sound signature._

 

Keep us updated on your opinions as the the teflon caps burn in.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 AHHH when are my new tubes arriving?


----------



## Canuck57

I ordered & paid (PayPal) for a DV 337 on Dec 5th and have not received a confirmation email yet from Audiophilechina 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Welcome to Audiophilechina

 For those of you that bought your DV from them, did you receive an email confirming your order/payment and how long did shipping take? (I'm in Canada).


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Canuck57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered & paid (PayPal) for a DV 337 on Dec 5th and have not received a confirmation email yet from Audiophilechina 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Welcome to Audiophilechina

 For those of you that bought your DV from them, did you receive an email confirming your order/payment and how long did shipping take? (I'm in Canada)._

 

I think most here ordered from Jasmine

zhounk@hotmail.com

 Jasmine will likely match or come within 10.00 of the other store and with MUCH better communication and customer service.

 I NEVER got a reply from audiophilechina, EVER.

 You are probably better off canceling and contacting Jasmine.

 Hopefully you paid with paypal CC .

 I would suggest you file problem with paypal and escalate it to a dispute if you don't get a response in 2 days.


----------



## howlndog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Canuck57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered & paid (PayPal) for a DV 337 on Dec 5th and have not received a confirmation email yet from Audiophilechina 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Welcome to Audiophilechina

 For those of you that bought your DV from them, did you receive an email confirming your order/payment and how long did shipping take? (I'm in Canada)._

 

I bought my 336i through High End Casqe via E-bay. According to the Audiophilechina website the two companies are one in the same (my "payment received" e-mail came directly from audiophilechina). Mine arrived safe and sound about 10-14 days after I paid. I did not receive a shipping confirmation e-mail. I am also in Canada.

 Good luck


----------



## Canuck57

Thanks for taking the time to respond Howlndog & Tomjtx

 I did receive a quote for the 337 from Jasmine. but his/her price was quite a bit higher than Audiophilechina. Audiophilechina was very response to my emails prior to placing my order (go figure!) and I knew they were connected to the eBay seller High End Casque which has a good feedback rating so I figured they would be ok to deal with.

 I'll let you know how things turn out.


----------



## tomjtx

I am sure it's fine.
 If it wasn't in stock it might take some time.

 It's worth the wait, it is one very fine amp.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, the distributors don't stock the 120v version, and they have to make them at the factory...


----------



## keanej6

this question had to have been asked but what happens if you only have one side powered? does sound only come out of that channel?

 and doesn't the fact that it has two volume pots annoy anyone? for some reason this would be a deterrent, but that's just me.


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Canuck57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for taking the time to respond Howlndog & Tomjtx

 I did receive a quote for the 337 from Jasmine. but his/her price was quite a bit higher than Audiophilechina. Audiophilechina was very response to my emails prior to placing my order (go figure!) and I knew they were connected to the eBay seller High End Casque which has a good feedback rating so I figured they would be ok to deal with.

 I'll let you know how things turn out._

 

The Audiophilechina prices are indeed pretty low. They do seem to take their time with emails however. 

 Did audiophilechina also mention whether they would test the amp for you before shipping?

 Also, whats with the pic of the philishave rotary razor as their webpage banner graphic ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let us know how your 337 turns out


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *keanej6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this question had to have been asked but what happens if you only have one side powered? does sound only come out of that channel?

 and doesn't the fact that it has two volume pots annoy anyone? for some reason this would be a deterrent, but that's just me._

 

Yes, it's truly dual-mono, so it you power only one channel, you get sound from only one. 

 I actually like having 2 volume controls - it let's me center the soundstage perfectly.


----------



## keanej6

interesting. i just find it annoying enough when i have to jump up from my comfortable bed to adjust the volume...i couldn't imagine adjusting both sides every time!


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *keanej6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_interesting. i just find it annoying enough when i have to jump up from my comfortable bed to adjust the volume...i couldn't imagine adjusting both sides every time!_

 

I perceive sounds in my left ear a little softer than the right. so it's a blessing for me actually, that it has two volume knobs.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 interesting. i just find it annoying enough when i have to jump up from my comfortable bed to adjust the volume...i couldn't imagine adjusting both sides every time! 
 

Yeah, there are times when I find it really annoying having to move both sides. This is especially a problem with older mono recorded songs that have been remastered in stereo. Van Morrison's Brown Eyed Girl is a good example. A lot of times, I have to resort to visually checking the knob marks to verify the volume. 

 If you have Foobar, you can use Replaygain to level all your music files. Then you wouldn't really need to change the volume that often. 

 Skylab is right though, the amp is completely dual mono. If for some reason you only wanted to listen to the left channel, there's nothing stopping you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## tomjtx

I have a friend who is is a recording engineer with his own studio. He also designs and builds audio equipment.

 He prefers 2 volume controls and wouldn't have it any other way.

 He made the the point that the tubes will vary new and will age differently so it is better to have 2 volume controls.

 Since my source is Transporter which has a volume control I can do micro adjustments with the remote.


----------



## Mazuki

Regardless of how useful or annoying it is, the dual controls certainly makes the 337 unique.


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Canuck57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered & paid (PayPal) for a DV 337 on Dec 5th and have not received a confirmation email yet from Audiophilechina 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Welcome to Audiophilechina

 For those of you that bought your DV from them, did you receive an email confirming your order/payment and how long did shipping take? (I'm in Canada)._

 

Still no response from audiophilechina.com


----------



## bOUddha

Canuck57-

 I got my DV336i from Casque Hi-Fi, and never did get any response for the entire time I waited, which took about four weeks due to the voltage revision and a two week rest stop at U.S. Customs...

 You're gonna be SOOOO happy when this is over, though!


----------



## mrwinick

Their website says 3-8 days to get the amp.


----------



## NoPants

Just to support the above post, I just received mine today after jasmine informed me that it shipped out on the 11th...best excuse to clean up my desk


----------



## Skylab

Excellent! Another 337 owner!


----------



## NoPants

you'd better believe it

 I just switched it on half an hour ago...the thing has 2 damn power cords somehow that never occured to me

 as of right now the bass is actually very light compared to what i'm used to, but the thing it does absolutely amazingly is the spacing and imaging. It does a pretty good job of doing away with that "blob in the center of your head" feel. I'm not sure if this is an accurate thing or not, but I really enjoy it with acoustic music so far. It feels a little bright with especially top-heavy stuff, but i think that's something I can approach with tubes. I'm not sure what other user's opinions on the bass are, but considering I'm using the bel canto which is known for it's bass response, I was wondering if everyone is getting satisfactory amounts. Could be because I'm using 32 ohm headphones...though I've already beaten that to death, even before I owned this hah

 Using the stock tubes as of right now...I ordered some 6080s off ebay recently for about 6$ a piece, but I won't be albe to put them in for about a month since I have to leave for home soon. I was trying to score some 6AS7G's on ebay but this user named skylab88 seems pretty intent on bidding on every piece out there...I wonder who it could be =p


----------



## Skylab

LMAO! Yeah, that's me...but I only bid cheap - I almost always get outbid.

 PM me if you have an auction you want to win and you'd like me to stay away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## NoPants

o it's all good it's a very effective deterrent for spending more money than I already have...I just realized with this piece I've almost got a 1:1:1 ratio on headphones:amp:source =/

 On another note I put in some sovtek 6SJ7's and that hum is ridiculous!


----------



## Skylab

I don't have any experience with the Sovteks, but in general, the 6SJ7's will hum like crazy for quite a while - best to let them burn in for 24 hours.


----------



## NoPants

Has anyone met with any success using the 6SL7's yet? my curiousity is piqued


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Canuck57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still no response from audiophilechina.com_

 

Thanks to Hellenback who emailed them on my behalf (he had referred audiophilechina to me) they responded indicating that they have received my payment and that the amp is being shipped today. Now I just have to wait...impatiently I might add. Hopefully customs won't delay it much...

 I've ordered upgraded tubes (suggested by SkyLab), they'll likely arrive before the amp...


----------



## djork

Hi Mazuki, how's your mod going? sounds any better than before?


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Hi Mazuki, how's your mod going? sounds any better than before? 
 

Sorry, I haven't had a chance to critically evaluate the mod just yet. 

 However, there are some new pictures up on the Darkvoice 337 SE. I'll post some impressions this week.

 You can check them out in the link below:

µÚÒ»Ì¨¶Æ½ðÏßTHA-337SE¶¯¹¤ - ³É¶¼ö¦Òô·» - Õý¹æ³§¼Ò½»Ò×Çø - µ¨ÒÕÐùÒôÏì²ÄÁÏÍø ÒôÏì|½»Ò×|µç×Ó¹Ü|µ¨»ú|µ¨»úÍøÕ¾|µ¨»úÂÛÌ³|µ¨»ú²ÄÁÏ|Ê ä³öÅ£|±äÑ¹Æ÷|µçÔ´Å£|µç×è|µçÈÝ - Powered by Discuz!

 Those of you considering the 337 might want to wait for this one. 

 Notable Changes:

 1. The driver tube is different (9 pin vs. 8 pin), probably an EF86. These probably hum less and I don't know if they're any more linear. 
 2. The output coupling capacitors are now Vishay MKP instead of Solen MKP. Capacitance used to be 51uf, now with all the 10uF Vishays paralleled, total capacitance is 60uF. 
 3. The power resistors (yellow heatsinked things) have been replaced with real aluminum wirewound stuff, rather than the cheap ceramic coated green ones. 
 4. Other resistors have been replaced by high quality Vishay BC types. 
 5. All other differences are purely cosmetic.

 Anyone think Darkvoice is emulating Ray Samuels a bit? Definitely with those large anodised aluminum knobs.


----------



## Skylab

Mike:

 Just curious, what made you think it's an EF86? Does it say that? I see that the EF86 is a pentode (like the current 337's 6SJ7)...seems like the EF86 does have some nice NOS alternatives - Telefunken, Amperex, etc., although they are not super-cheap. I wonder if the 6267 is less fussy than the 6SJ7


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Just curious, what made you think it's an EF86? Does it say that? I see that the EF86 is a pentode (like the current 337's 6SJ7)...seems like the EF86 does have some nice NOS alternatives - Telefunken, Amperex, etc., although they are not super-cheap. I wonder if the 6267 is less fussy than the 6SJ7 
 

I read this in another thread that I can't find atm. Either way, when the specs come out we'll know. It's definitely still a pentode driver though. The EF86 is one of the most popular audio 9-pin sharp cutoff pentodes. I have a pair of 5879 that is related that I want to try. I'm going to check the resistor values to see if they're the same. It's definitely pretty simple to make an adapter.


----------



## Skylab

Right, you see where I am going...I wonder if the 9-pin to octal adapters I have for my Singlepower amp would work with the current 337 to try using EF86's in it?


----------



## Mazuki

What octal tube does which 9-pin tube adapt to?

 My guess it's they're going from 9-pin twin triode to 8-pin twin triode. In that case, the adapter won't work as the pinouts are different.


----------



## Skylab

Of course, that's right. Oh well


----------



## Mazuki

I'll wait until the specs are posted and make an adapter (I've got all the parts lying around). If it's any good, I'll send it to you.


----------



## Godkin

Any word on when, or if, the 337se will be released?


----------



## Mazuki

No idea, the one in the picture is the first one. They just finished a production run of Figaros, so now they have time to make other amps.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll wait until the specs are posted and make an adapter (I've got all the parts lying around). If it's any good, I'll send it to you._

 

Awesome, thanks!


----------



## NoPants

Has anyone had a problem with off-center volume knobs? I noticed it when I was trying to replace my volume knob that I accidentally pulled off. I realized that turning the pot through its enter range makes it scrape against hte faceplate if it's too close. I guess there are some corners that have to be cut at this price point? It's by no means a big deal though.


----------



## Mazuki

I've turned both my knobs to the end and there's no scraping at all. I have to admit though the amp isn't immaculate. The paint is pretty even but near the corners, there is a little bit of uneveness. Also, the power LEDs aren't glued on as tightly so they can be pushed back into the chassis. Other than that, it's a well built machine.


----------



## Skylab

Same with mine. No issue with the volume knobs scraping, but they were not perfectly matched in terms of where the little notch is when they are both at min volume. Also, like Mazuki, my paint job was good but not perfect. Internal build quality seemed to be quite good, though. The chassis mounted jacks on the back are awesome. Although the tube sockets used are fine, the ones on my SP amp are better. But the SP amp is 25% more money than the DV.


----------



## bol

I gave in and ordered my 337 last night... hussah! I hope they pair up with the Darths well and add some warmth to them.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Internal build quality seemed to be quite good, though. 
 

I think ever since the 336 internal pictures came out, all other tube amp manufacturers have had to sharpen up and make better internal wiring. The point to point in Darkvoices are simply stunning. It's not just the straight bent wires, but also the numerous bits of heatshrink wrapped around important joints. 

  Quote:


 I hope they pair up with the Darths well and add some warmth to them. 
 

I think the 337 mates really well with Beyerdynamics. I primarily listen to my amp with my DT880s.


----------



## djork

the 6SJ7WGT i ordered have arrived. a little humming, hopefully it goes away soon.

 edit: after 3 hours, the hum is almost gone


----------



## tigerkai

Hi anyone tired Darkvoice 337 with RS2?


----------



## Mazuki

I've tried it with a Grado RS-1 before. I'm not a big fan of Grados, especially their comfort. Plus with bowls, I never feel like I have them on properly. The RS-1s didn't sound bad out of the 337 but it wasn't anything special IMO.


----------



## Skylab

Just an FYI, I got some more Herbie's Audio Lab tube dampers, which did an AMAZING job getting rid of a little microphonics I was having with the 6AS7's in my 337. The Herbie's dampers are terrific for this - I am impressed! I put some on the 6AS7's and some on the 6SJ7's, and now things are TOTALLY quiet. Very cool!


----------



## Mario_enc04

Well..
 The DV 337 is my choice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Cant wait till feb.
 Any impressions about the couple 337 + K 701?
 There is somenthing concerning me, the shipping costs to Brazil... everyday getting more and more poor.


----------



## tomjtx

the 337+701 is as beautiful as a hot Brazil babe.

 So ,of course, you are going to be very happy.


----------



## Mazuki

The K701's impedance is a little low at 62ohms but with the parallel output of the 337, impedance matching shouldn't be a problem. As far as I recall, the pair sound really good, if it wasn't for the stiff leather headband, I would have that combo for myself.


----------



## tomjtx

The impedance is no problem with my 701's.

 I doubt you will ever get to 12 o'clock on the volume dials


----------



## Mazuki

I just checked the Darkvoice forum. Turns out the new 337SE uses EF80 driver tubes and a pair of 6080 output tubes. 

 I'm going to check the driver tube resistor values and fashion some kind of adapter. This will be interesting, the EF80 is a RF pentode, and not a sharp cutoff pentode.


----------



## Skylab

That is interesting! I will be interested to hear what you learn.


----------



## djork

cool. potentially more tube rolling options


----------



## Godkin

I'm interested in the SE version of the 337. There are certainly many tube rolling options, and prices don't seem to steep. Versions of the EF80 are not short in supply - the 8D6, 6BX6, Z152, Z719, 64SPT and the Soviet 6P6P are all pretty easy to find. 

 Equivalents for the 6080 also seem plentiful - the 6AS7 in all its many manifestations, and the ECC230, as well as a host of military "common valves", the CV10322, CV2984, CV8216, CV8232, CV8614. I'm rubbing my hands together in glee at the thought of it.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, this is good news - EF80/6BX6's are much cheaper than the EF86/6267's are...


----------



## Skylab

I tried some Tung-Sol 7236's in the Darkvoice 337 in place of the 6AS7's. They sounded VERY good. I admit I am addicted to the 6AS7's lushness, and the 7236 are a little crisper sounding, but they are smoother than the 6080's are. They are somewhere in between the 6080 and the 6AS7.

 So from my listening, I would say here is the sonic spectrum of output tubes:

 LUSH --- 6AS7 --- 5998 --- 7236 --- 6080 --- CRISP


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 LUSH --- 6AS7 --- 5998 --- 7236 --- 6080 --- CRISP 
 

Nice spectrum. Have you tried the 6528s yet? I'm curious where they fit in your lineup there.

 I'll check the resistor values tonight and see if the EF80 is plug 'n play. If so I'll order a bunch and start on those adapters soon.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice spectrum. Have you tried the 6528s yet? I'm curious where they fit in your lineup there.

 I'll check the resistor values tonight and see if the EF80 is plug 'n play. If so I'll order a bunch and start on those adapters soon._

 

I have not been able to score a pair of 6528s yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am going to keep trying though. 

 And do let us know if the stock 337 can use the EF80 (with the adapters of course). The EF86 actually made more intuitive sense, since its also a sharp-cutoff pentode like the 6SJ7, but it would be great if the EF80 will work in a stock 337.


----------



## classic_rock_69

Has anyone tried this amp with grado's, if so what are your thoughts?

 I'm also thinking that this may be a fabulous amp for the Sony sa5000 owners, and I'm curious if anyone has tried the combo.

 Beautifull amp, makes me want to buy it.


----------



## Mazuki

So I compared the resistor values, and it looks like everything is exactly the same. Kind of weird actually. 

 Anyways, here are the two threads I used to make this conclusion. It would be great if someone else can take a look to confirm my finding. 

Regular 337

337 SE

 The pictures are a bit blurry and the resistors they use are coded in a weird way. I'm going to go ahead and order some EF80 tubes though.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I compared the resistor values, and it looks like everything is exactly the same. Kind of weird actually. 

 Anyways, here are the two threads I used to make this conclusion. It would be great if someone else can take a look to confirm my finding. 

Regular 337

337 SE

 The pictures are a bit blurry and the resistors they use are coded in a weird way. I'm going to go ahead and order some EF80 tubes though._

 

from my limited mandarin knowledge

 the change the tubes plus change all the wires to gold plated one?

 someone the SE is made to order


----------



## Mazuki

Yes, both tubes have been changed (though the 6080 is a equivalent to original 6N5P) and all wiring has been gold plated. Thing is if they changed driver tubes, it's also possible resistors were changed as well. That wouldn't be something they would mention, IMO.


----------



## Von Soundcard

Does the 337 use it's drive tubes as normal pentodes (all 5 electrodes wired) or as triodes (only 3 terminals wired) ? What I'm getting at is: can it be easily modified to (also) use triodes on input ?


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Does the 337 use it's drive tubes as normal pentodes (all 5 electrodes wired) or as triodes (only 3 terminals wired) ? What I'm getting at is: can it be easily modified to (also) use triodes on input ? 
 

You make a really good point, but it looks like the suppressor grid (pin 6) is connected to the plate (pin 8) via a 1.1kohm resistor, not a direct connection (triode mode).


----------



## Canuck57

All I want for Christmas is my DV 337 to arrive!


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 All I want for Christmas is my DV 337 to arrive! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

How long ago did you order it?


----------



## Mazuki

So recently a set of questions were asked on the Darkvoice forum. I thought I'd translate and share with everyone:

*1. What sonic differences are there between the 337SE and the 337?*

 The 337SE improves in soundstage, detail and resolution. They also say human voices gain more "magnetism". Not sure what that means...

*2. What are the component differences of the 337SE?*

 Resistors have been changed to Vishay BC, capacitors changed to Vishay Roederstein, wiring changed to gold plated wires, output tubes now EF80 and 6080. 

*3. Can I keep the all black look of the original 337, I think the new gold look is ugly. 
*
 The 337SE is still all black, just with a golden faceplate. 

*4. How long does it take to build a 337SE?*

 It takes more than 20 days. Burning in the tubes takes some time.

*5. Are you making 337SEs right now?*

 The first one has already shipped, we have 4 more orders but since we're a little busy right now, haven't gotten to them yet.

*6. Will there be future improvements to the 337SE? What will happen in the future if I order one now?*

 We only have parts for a little more than 10 amps right now. We haven't thought about future modifications. 

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

 I think that gave some insight into the 337 product line. The 337SE is mostly a custom order amp and it's obvious they don't push too many of them.


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long ago did you order it?_

 

I ordered & paid for it Dec 5th and it shipped Dec 15. It could be held up in customs.


----------



## Skylab

That's very interesting about the 337SE. I would have ordered that if I didn't already have a 337, but I don't plan to "upgrade".


----------



## djork

anyone tried the svetlana tubes on ebay? seems like there's plenty on them for sale. would like some feedback if anyone has tried them. Thanks


----------



## Mazuki

I've heard some people really like the Winged C tubes, but due to most sellers being in Russia, I haven't bothered to order any. I did order some EF80 tubes though, so as soon as they come, I can make the adapters to try them out.


----------



## NoPants

just wanted to do a check to see if any alternative tubes have been found without the humming plague


----------



## Skylab

FWIW, I actually got rid of all the hum in my 337 by blasting the tube sockets with "propelled" contact cleaner. This is worth a try if you are having some hum/buzz.


----------



## Canuck57

My DV 337 finally arrived! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm at work so I have to wait until I can get home & fire it up!

 I have the replacement tubes that SkyLab recommended waiting at home.


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Canuck57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My DV 337 finally arrived! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm at work so I have to wait until I can get home & fire it up!

 I have the replacement tubes that SkyLab recommended waiting at home._

 

Welcome to the family


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 My DV 337 finally arrived! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm at work so I have to wait until I can get home & fire it up!

 I have the replacement tubes that SkyLab recommended waiting at home. 
 

Congrats! Hope you enjoy the music. Don't forget to listen to the stock tubes, just to see what the amp is capable of. You'll love the NOS tubes even more after that.


----------



## shellylh

Skylab, What do you mean by "propelled?"

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FWIW, I actually got rid of all the hum in my 337 by blasting the tube sockets with "propelled" contact cleaner. This is worth a try if you are having some hum/buzz._


----------



## Canuck57

Wow, what a great amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've only listened briefly. Tried the stock tubes (sounded very good) then replaced the tubes. There's hum with the replacement tubes which hopefully will disappear as mentioned in this thread. 

 So far I've listened with the 650s, 340s (stock & modded) and JVC DX-1000. All sound great, especially the JVCs!

 Anxious to hear how the SQ changes after the amp is fully broken in....


----------



## Aptom

Great review! I want to know how heavy is it, and does it have 110v edition?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, What do you mean by "propelled?"_

 

I mean the kind that gets sprayed out of a can with some velocity, as opposed to stuff like Caig Pro Gold (which I also use and recommend highly) that just gets brushed on.


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mean the kind that gets sprayed out of a can with some velocity, as opposed to stuff like Caig Pro Gold (which I also use and recommend highly) that just gets brushed on._

 

How long after spraying the tube sockets did you turn on the amp? Should you let the contact cleaner evaporate away? Did you spray very much in?


----------



## shellylh

Thanks!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mean the kind that gets sprayed out of a can with some velocity, as opposed to stuff like Caig Pro Gold (which I also use and recommend highly) that just gets brushed on._


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Great review! I want to know how heavy is it, and does it have 110v edition? 
 

It's around 12kg and yes, there is a 110V edition.


----------



## Mazuki

So I received my EF80s a few days ago and I finally constructed the adapters






 You can see my two headphones in the background. And my trusty Weller soldering iron. 


 So how does it sound? The interesting thing is when I first plugged them in, one of the tubes hummed just like the Phillips 6SJ7WGT. It wasn't that loud, but since an overnight burn-in, it has quieted down just the same. I haven't compared them to other tubes just yet, but initial listening impressions conclude they seem to have a more diffuse/larger soundstage. The music seems a little thinner actually, but it's also more detailed and cleaner. I wonder how much tube rolling will matter. 

 One thing for sure is that the EF80 is less microphonic. This is partly attributed to the adapter, which basically suspends the tube in air. Another is the improved noval construction techniques. 

 I'll do some comparisons soon, stay tuned.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Canuck57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long after spraying the tube sockets did you turn on the amp? Should you let the contact cleaner evaporate away? Did you spray very much in?_

 

This kind of contact cleaner dries away very quickly.

 Mike, interesting findings on the EF80's. I'm not sure I'd be happy about the 337 being thinner sounding, but less microphonics is a bit promising


----------



## Cecala

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I received my EF80s a few days ago and I finally constructed the adapters






_

 

Clean off that dust you silly boy.


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

O.K. - I just purchased a 337 from Jasmine (110V version) - also have on the way RCA Jan-CRC 6AS7G's and Jan Phillips 6SJ7WGT's (re Skylabs recommendation). Plan on using the HD650's and AHD5000's.


----------



## Canuck57

The hum is almost gone after about 25 hours of burn in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It sounds great will all my cans, it certainly has no problem driving the AKG K340s....


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 O.K. - I just purchased a 337 from Jasmine (110V version) - also have on the way RCA Jan-CRC 6AS7G's and Jan Phillips 6SJ7WGT's (re Skylabs recommendation). Plan on using the HD650's and AHD5000's. 
 

Nice! welcome to the 337 club. 

  Quote:


 The hum is almost gone after about 25 hours of burn in. 
 

Seems like this is no longer a coincidence. All 6SJ7WGTs need some burn in time to get rid of the hum.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Seems like this is no longer a coincidence. All 6SJ7WGTs need some burn in time to get rid of the hum._

 

And about 24 hours seems to be the requisite amount of burn in.


----------



## N15M0

I am planning to get a 337SE. Currently I own a GS-1. May I know how does the 337SE compared with the GS-1? In terms of sound stage and details. Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

I'm afraid no one is going to be able to answer your question, since the 337SE isn't shipping yet


----------



## N15M0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm afraid no one is going to be able to answer your question, since the 337SE isn't shipping yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I see thanks. What about the normal 337?


----------



## bol

Got my 337 today but unfortunately it was damaged in shipping, the tube cage broke off and scratched the paint off in a bunch of areas and there is a dent on the side 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Works though thankfully and sounds great too!


----------



## Skylab

My tube cage also was loose when I got the 337, and there were a few paint scuffs. Nothing a little automobile touch up paint wouldn't cure


----------



## N15M0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *N15M0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see thanks. What about the normal 337?_

 

Anyone? As I am going to place the order soon. Thanks.


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

My 337 is at LAX - sorry to hear about the damage (really hope mine makes it in one piece-that sure sounds like bad packing). Would not be worth it to send it all the way back to China!


----------



## bol

Definitely bad packing, It looks like the package fell apart in shipment and was then bundled back up together by the shipping company and held together with bubble wrap around the box. At least the amp works, sounds perfect so there is little point in sending it back.

 Seems like everything I buy gets damaged in shipping!


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Anyone? As I am going to place the order soon. Thanks. 
 

I don't think you'll be experiencing a dramatic difference. The 337 doesn't sound extremely tubey. It's dynamic, fast, detailed: characteristics of a solid state amp. 

 But whereas the GS-1 probably aims for wire with gain, the 337 definitely adds some bass energy and a little bit of tube coloration.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Definitely bad packing, It looks like the package fell apart in shipment and was then bundled back up together by the shipping company and held together with bubble wrap around the box. At least the amp works, sounds perfect so there is little point in sending it back. 
 

The factory packaging is only designed for intra-China shipping, unfortunately. They should have stuff some extra newspapers in there and isolated the cage. I double boxed mine when shipping to the US.


----------



## N15M0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think you'll be experiencing a dramatic difference. The 337 doesn't sound extremely tubey. It's dynamic, fast, detailed: characteristics of a solid state amp. 

 But whereas the GS-1 probably aims for wire with gain, the 337 definitely adds some bass energy and a little bit of tube coloration._

 

Thanks pal. Does the 337 produce more detail compared to the GS-1? Thanks.


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My tube cage also was loose when I got the 337, and there were a few paint scuffs. Nothing a little automobile touch up paint wouldn't cure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

My 337 arrived with a couple scratches on the left transformer which I've touched up so they're not very noticeable. My amp was packed fairly well, the tube cage seemed reasonably secure and the amp was double boxed with Styrofoam between the inner & outer boxes. The tube cage could not have caused the scratches due to their location. I bought mine from audiophilecina.com


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Thanks pal. Does the 337 produce more detail compared to the GS-1? Thanks. 
 

That's pretty hard to quantify. I don't think either one particularly lacks detail. It would probably be music dependent. Also, the headphones are the greatest determinant.


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

337 arrived safely (a fews nicks here and there-no big deal). One power tube did not make the trip - cracked at the base (miserable packing). I did have the tubes Skylab recommended - plugged them inand"HHHHUUUUUUUMMMMMMMM" - boy, I hope it dies down a bit - worst I have ever heard in a headphone amp! This beast is powerful though - never heard the HD650's so "juiced" - I guess I'll have to chase down some more tubes (unless the amp itself is this noisy - which I certainly hope is not the case).


----------



## Skylab

They will quiet down, but it takes quite a while.


----------



## bol

Time for my 24 hour review of the 337....

 WOW. So smooth! This amp is fantastic. I'm so glad I put the time and effort into researching as much as I could on this forum to find my amp purchase. I bought the Meier Move based on it's rave reviews, it seemed like the best deal at the time and it's a great little amp. I use the Move at work, as USB DAC and amp. It's a great little combo... but the 337 is in a totally different league.

 The 337 has a natural tone to it that I have a hard time imagining being improved upon. Paired up with the Darth's it's a close as to listening to speakers as I suspect headphones get. The bass, the smooth sounds and ease of listening... hard to beat. I usually get fatigued listening to headphones but not with this combination.

 It's going to be fun to do some tube rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone know what the closest match touch up paint (automotive) would be for the 337?


----------



## Skylab

The paint for my black jeep Grand Cherokee was a near-perfect match.


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

bol - do you have any hummmmmm in yours - I'm having a hard time believing this will die down - I'll spend a little more time with mine this am.
 I think I will be happy if I can lower the noise floor (apparently there is no such thing as "low noise" tubes in the varieties that the 337 uses.


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

OK - what do you know - the NOS 6SJ7WGT input tubes are the culprits - the 6AS7G power tubes are fairly quiet. There are no markings on the input tubes Jasmine sent with the unit - anyone guess what they are? I guess I'll have to get something else - the Jan Phillips 6SJ7WGT's have a very loud mechanical hum - the ones sent with the unit (unknown type) are quiet - very low (tolerable) noise. The owner's manual is all in Chinese. Any thoughts guys. Other than that, I can tell I'm going to really like this beast - if anything - it could damage one's hearing - I cannot turn mine beyond 9:00 on my dials (both with 300 ohm and 32 ohm phones).


----------



## Mazuki

Right now, my tube of choice is the RCA 5693 "red hots". They produce no noise, are rated at an astounding 100,000 hours, and look just plain cool.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daleda@sbcglobal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bol - do you have any hummmmmm in yours - I'm having a hard time believing this will die down - I'll spend a little more time with mine this am.
 I think I will be happy if I can lower the noise floor (apparently there is no such thing as "low noise" tubes in the varieties that the 337 uses._

 

Hmmm... thanks for the warning.

 I was thinking about "giving one a try." But... maybe not... if the noise is inherent in the type of tubes.

 Thanks...


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

Mazuki - thanks - I just ordered a couple of 5693 "red hots" - maybe the Jan Phillips 6SJ7WGT's will calm down - maybe not (after 6 hours they are still unchanged). I think I may have gotten a bum pair - oh well - no biggie! Considering how much I've spent on 300B's (WE) - this is next to nothing! I used to own the Cary 300SEI with WE's and I can already tell the 337 out shines that amp by a fair margin - truly amazing! It is so wonderful to find something affordable that performs so well. This is not the first time I've been impressed with the Chinese. I've had my fair share of front end's (Sony SCD1,
 Simaudio Eclipse, Cary 306-200 (Dan Wright modded) to name a few and for the last few years I've been using the Xindak SCD2 (WE NOS Tubes) and it best all three of the above (and cost $560) - so go figure! Once I get some quiet drivers - I think I'm going to love this beast!


----------



## tomjtx

Give the phillips 24 hours continuous play for the hum to go away. 6 hours is nothing.

 Mine are dead silent now.

 If yours' still hum after 24 hours then you probably have a bum tube.


----------



## bol

Zero hum whatsoever on mine, I'm using the stock tubes that it came with.


----------



## Skylab

The stock tubes are Chinese and IMO do not sound very good. 

 The JAN Phillips 6SJ7WGTs will buzz/hum loudly for at least 12 hours - I have broken in 2 pairs, both of which took almost 24 hours of break in, and were essentially quiet after that (although one did retain the very faintest of buzzes intermittently). 

 Mike, maybe its time I tried the 5693's I have. How long after you put them in did they quiet down.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Mazuki - thanks - I just ordered a couple of 5693 "red hots" 
 

Nice! They're not cheap, but how many other tubes are red colored!

  Quote:


 Mike, maybe its time I tried the 5693's I have. How long after you put them in did they quiet down. 
 

Actually, they were quiet from the start. I can't remember if I got them new or used. They're very reliable and definitely low noise. 

 One thing to keep in mind, the 5693 was only manufactured by RCA, but was rebranded for some other companies. So there's no need to brand match, they're all made in the same place.


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

skylab - had the Jan Phillips 6SJ7WGT's on now for 12-15 hours (since early this am) - they are "slightly" less noisy (but still far from I find acceptable for a noise floor-like I said, probably my luck I got a bum pair). The RCA "Red Hots" will be here tomorrow - I'll report in about them). The RCA Jan CRC 6AS7G's are a thing of beauty - brightly burn they do!


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daleda@sbcglobal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_skylab - had the Jan Phillips 6SJ7WGT's on now for 12-15 hours (since early this am) - they are "slightly" less noisy (but still far from I find acceptable for a noise floor-like I said, probably my luck I got a bum pair). The RCA "Red Hots" will be here tomorrow - I'll report in about them). The RCA Jan CRC 6AS7G's are a thing of beauty - brightly burn they do!_

 

Try to give them a full 24 hours to be sure. At least that way you will know if you can sell them as good tubes in case you like the red tops better.


----------



## Mazuki

Do you guys own digital cameras? We could really use more 337 photos...


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

Yes I do own a digital camera - will post when I get time. I received the RCA 5693 "Special Reds" today and they are indeed "quiet" - thank god! I'll continue to try and burn in the 6SJ7WGT's (hopefully they will quiet down). So far, I'm very impressed with this amps ability with my HD650's - seems an incredible synergy - and I also agree this is the first time I have experienced no "head stage blob" - truly amazing! I'll listen soon to my Denon D5000's and see how the 337 likes a lower impedance (I tried them briefly and they sounded good).
 Thanks for the help guys!


----------



## bol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The stock tubes are Chinese and IMO do not sound very good. _

 

That bad? Sounds beautiful to me, but it's my first tube amp. Others seem to report that it sounds quite good in stock mode.

 Definitely going to pick up some tubes in the next while though and see how I can change the sound.


----------



## tigerkai

Hi guys, finally got my DV337 after a long following of this thread.i'm using the stock tubes n it sound awesome,btw my friend had pass me a matched pair of NOS Sylvania EL34 can i use them to replace the stock 6N5P.thks


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

EL 34 is not a suitable replacement for the 6N5P - according to Skylab - his scales is:

 LUSH---6AS7---5998---7236---6080---CRISP


----------



## Skylab

The EL34 isn't even the same type of tube. The EL34 is a power pentode; the 6AS7 is a dual-triode. Using an EL34 in the 337 would probably cause something to blow up.


----------



## tigerkai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The EL34 isn't even the same type of tube. The EL34 is a power pentode; the 6AS7 is a dual-triode. Using an EL34 in the 337 would probably cause something to blow up._

 

thks Skylab for ur advise,i will look for 6AS7 n pair with 5693 "red hots"


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

Well, one Jan-Phillips 6SJ7WGT finally quieted down (sort of), the other still buzzes (so is a bum tube) - they do sound good though (better than the Special Reds-but they are nice also). I've ordered some Sylvania Chrome Top 6SJ7GT NOS Cryo from Tubeworld (Brendan's suggestion) - will report back on them. I'm really impressed with this amp's ability - seems the best of valves and sand (liquid, lush, detail, clarity, all rolled in one package). Oh, and what power - never heard this much headroom (pun intended)!


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 I've ordered some Sylvania Chrome Top 6SJ7GT NOS Cryo from Tubeworld (Brendan's suggestion) - will report back on them. 
 

Those look like they have a lot of potential. Do report back on the sound of those. 

 In the meantime, I've been trying out these EF80s. One thing for certain is they seem to have a lower noise floor than the 6SJ7. They're also less microphonic. There also seems to be pretty noticeable differences between brands. Definitely worth a look for some of you enterprising tube rollers.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those look like they have a lot of potential. Do report back on the sound of those. 

 In the meantime, I've been trying out these EF80s. One thing for certain is they seem to have a lower noise floor than the 6SJ7. They're also less microphonic. There also seems to be pretty noticeable differences between brands. Definitely worth a look for some of you enterprising tube rollers._

 

Yes, I agree with Mazuki, please do report back on the cryo-treated Sylvanias! Full report, please!

 Mazuki, I scored some Amperex EF80's on EBay for very little money...so maybe later I will beg you to make me some adapters


----------



## djork

Mazuki, looking forward to hearing your impressions on your EF80 tubes! Heh.. I'd like to DIY my own adaptor too.. if you have the time, care to post the layout? Many thanks..


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daleda@sbcglobal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, one Jan-Phillips 6SJ7WGT finally quieted down (sort of), the other still buzzes (so is a bum tube) - they do sound good though (better than the Special Reds-but they are nice also). I've ordered some Sylvania Chrome Top 6SJ7GT NOS Cryo from Tubeworld (Brendan's suggestion) - will report back on them. I'm really impressed with this amp's ability - seems the best of valves and sand (liquid, lush, detail, clarity, all rolled in one package). Oh, and what power - never heard this much headroom (pun intended)!_

 

I left the amp on overnight, playing pink noise through it. The hum was gone by the next evening. I bought 2 sets of the 6SJ7WGT.


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

Did you guys look at your owner's manual (mine is in all Chinese) but the picture in mine shows a guy working on a 337 upside down and listening thru
 (what looks to me like) Senn 600-650's! He looks very blissed out! Maybe I should post over in the Headphone forum (and see what gets stirred up)! Also, get a load of those "HUGE" caps hooked into the circuitry!


----------



## spookygonk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daleda@sbcglobal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you guys look at your owner's manual (mine is in all Chinese) but the picture in mine shows a guy working on a 337 upside down and listening thru (what looks to me like) Senn 600-650's!_

 

Wait, what? Is the guy upside down or is the amp?


----------



## Mazuki

The amp needs to be upside down in order to tweak it.


----------



## NoPants

so the left side of my dv 337 decided to blow today while I was sleeping and letting it burn in

 I emailed jasmine about it, but I was wondering if there was anything I could easily replace like fuses or the like. I looked through mazuki's pics but found nothing. I fanyone has any input that'd be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Skylab

So when you say blow, what happens when you turn it on? Nothing? Does it produce even a hum via the headphones? 

 I assume you tried another set of tubes? The most likely scenario is that the tubes went bad. If you don't have a spare set I cal sell you a set of the stock chinese tubes ULTRA cheap for testing - send me an email.


----------



## NoPants

I plugged in NOS Jan 6080 and 6SJ7WGT in just yesterday, as I just got back to school

 When I turn the unit on, there's nothing, not even the led lights up. there's that signature hum in the right side though haha but then again it's working correctly...


----------



## Skylab

Ouch - if the light doesn't even light, that is BAD. Probably have to go back for service...


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

It looks like there are fuses in the lower portion of the IEC PC connectors - did you check those? Other than that, it sounds like a resistor blew. An easy fix if you have a repair service in your area who understands valve based designs.
 Hopefully, it is just a fuse.


----------



## shellylh

Dang, that really bites! Sorry to hear that.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NoPants* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I plugged in NOS Jan 6080 and 6SJ7WGT in just yesterday, as I just got back to school

 When I turn the unit on, there's nothing, not even the led lights up. there's that signature hum in the right side though haha but then again it's working correctly..._


----------



## NoPants

thanks for the heads up on the fuses daleda, I'm going to waltz my way into the labs somehow to get the right stuff to look at it

 I'm sad because it sounded REALLY good with the tubes I'm using...well i guess I can listen to right side only until jasmine responds hahaha


----------



## NoPants

actually I'm even sadder because I'm holding a pair of rca 6as7G's haha


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

Here is a picture of the inside of mine - comparing to previous one - seems to have added a more stable metal support for those huge caps and also a little better rubber insulation on the power switches - other than that seems the same. Sure is some good workmanship and PTP wiring.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Here is a picture of the inside of mine - comparing to previous one - seems to have added a more stable metal support for those huge caps and also a little better rubber insulation on the power switches - other than that seems the same. Sure is some good workmanship and PTP wiring.
 Attached Thumbnails 

 

 

Yeah, that seems to be a newer batch where they started using more metal supports rather than zip ties. 

 I really do wish they'd stop using those green ceramic resistors that you see on both bottom corners. The aluminum heatsinked wirewounds used in the 337SE are magnitudes better, especially with heat dissipation.


----------



## Mazuki

Ok, so the first thing you need is to get the pinouts for both the tubes. Here they are:

 EF80







 6SJ7






 The numbering on the pins are conveniently labelled already. Keep in mind this is the view from the bottom of the tube. You also need to be looking at the bottom of the sockets when soldering. 

 You can buy the octal base and noval socket from Welcome to TubeDepot.com!

 After that, it's simply a matter of connecting the various pins to each other.

 Here's the chart I used:






 Pin 1 and 3 are the same on the EF80 so you only need pin 3 connected.


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

I just ordered some 5998's from Antique Electronic Supply (curious with lower impedance cans (my D5000's). Still waiting on my Sylvania Cryo 6SJ7WGT's from Brendon at Tubeworld - will report my findings. I'm starting to appreciate the "Special Reds" in he meantime - this amp continues to amaze me!


----------



## Skylab

You know that if you are buying 5998's from AES that you are getting GE Pink base tubes, right? At least that is what they have on their website for $29.50 each. They are not identical to the Tung Sol's. I have a pair, but I haven't actually auditioned them yet, but the plate structure is definitely different. They are supposed to be the same tube electrically as the Tung-Sol 5998, but they are different looking both externally and internally.


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

I was just curious to see how the 5998's did with a lower impedance can - I wasn't aware of the brand when I ordered (thanks for the head's up). Hopefully, it will work if it is in fact a 5998 design.


----------



## nonno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm tiny bit surprise because i read meier audio pair great with beyer. i also like headfive with dt990 pro myself. but thanks anyway. you just saved me the fund for a pair of 600 ohm beyer. yea 337 is that "cheap" in Hong Kong._

 

where in hongkong did you buy the 337? Thanks


----------



## nonno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i walked into a shop in HK, bought a 337, and now i'm happily in my room listening to it. fantastic stuff, even with just the stock tubes._

 

If I may ask: which shop did you go to and how much did you pay? I am trying to get one of my Chinese student colleagues to get one for me. (is it cheeper to buy them there rather then have them shiped?) thanks!


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nonno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I may ask: which shop did you go to and how much did you pay? I am trying to get one of my Chinese student colleagues to get one for me. (is it cheeper to buy them there rather then have them shiped?) thanks!_

 

we can talk in PM


----------



## Mazuki

Yeah, if you know someone in China willing to buy one for you, you could save quite some money.


----------



## Skylab

Hello Darkvoice! Thanks for checking in. Any word on when the 337 SE will come out?


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nonno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_where in hongkong did you buy the 337? Thanks_

 

no i didn't get the 337 but it's probably my next target since i just got my dt880 600ohm. so far, i only know there's one place that sell 337 and 336 and that's from mingo.


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no i didn't get the 337 but it's probably my next target since i just got my dt880 600ohm. so far, i only know there's one place that sell 337 and 336 and that's from mingo._

 

I got my 337 from mingo. Still, i'm looking forward for him to bring in the new offerings. it's just a short bus ride away


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

I received my 5998's from Antique Electronic Supply and they are in fact the Tung Sol's (and look like 6AS7's "coke bottle" shape). They are very nice with lower impedance cans - more lively, but still retain the lushness of the RCA JAN CRC 6AS7G's. I'm still "de-buzzing" the Cryo Sylvania 6SJ7WGT's I got from Brendan at Tubeworld (these things are a real pain). The Jan Phillips 6SJ7WGT finally quieted down - right one still buzzes slightly). I am really impressed with this amp - the dual volume pots are quite useful. I think it is so cool not to have to surrender body parts in order to buy tubes for this amp
 (the whole NOS world has completely gotten out of hand-truly ridiculous)!


----------



## Skylab

Wow Daleda, that is very cool about the Tung-Sol 5998's from AES - those are nice!


----------



## holdendebeans

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Darkvoice! Thanks for checking in. Any word on when the 337 SE will come out?_

 

I was told by someone at High End Casque that the 337SE was not available and would no longer be made due to lack of necessary parts. Anyone else heard this?!?


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 I was told by someone at High End Casque that the 337SE was not available and would no longer be made due to lack of necessary parts. Anyone else heard this?!? 
 

The only thing I imagine that would be hard to get are the 10uF Vishay metallised polypropylene caps.


----------



## Skylab

Certainly the EF/80 6BX6 is plentiful, as is the 6080 output tube, so that couldn't be the issue...


----------



## djork

any favourite 6AS7G tubes to date?


----------



## Skylab

I have to be honest, I don't find there to be a huge difference in the sound of different USA-made 6AS7G's, specifically. The RCAs are by far the most common, and they sound terrific. I *think* I prefer the sound of the black-plates slightly, but the difference isn't huge. ANY USA-made 6AS7G will blow the pants off the stock Chinese tube.

 I do think the 6AS7G sounds significantly better than the 6080. That said, Tung-Sol 5998's sound better still. And if you want a lot of detail, 7236's sound very good, providing an almost solid-state type sound while maintaining a nice tube midrange. 

 I prefer the Tung-Sol 5998's, followed by black-plate, double bottom-D-getter 6AS7G's.


----------



## holdendebeans

Well I finally pulled the trigger and ordered the DV 337. It's hard to part with that kind of money sight unseen and sound unheard but you people here are to blame. Your detailed descriptions and honest evaluations gave me confidence in my purchase. Thanks alot. Now I can't wait to get it.

 Now remember, when my wife asks, you guys are to blame.
 I was powerless against the force.


----------



## Skylab

LOL! It's a great amp, you will love it.


----------



## holdendebeans

I received an email from darkvoice2003@gmail.com quoting a price of $1200 USD for the 337SE (1,000 + 200 s&h) so I guess it isn't discontinued. Still don't know what the upgrade are so I went with the 337 based on price and reported performance.

 I'm horny for my new amp.


----------



## djork

my goodness.. what a big price difference!


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Still don't know what the upgrade are so I went with the 337 based on price and reported performance. 
 

Yeah, I think that is the best sound for the money.


----------



## Skylab

I agree -- $1200 seems pretty high given how good the standard 337 is.

 That might be "MSRP" though, with the "street price" being lower...


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 I agree -- $1200 seems pretty high given how good the standard 337 is.

 That might be "MSRP" though, with the "street price" being lower... 
 

I think the problem is the SE version is made to order, so there is no "street price".


----------



## Skylab

Ahhh. I see...


----------



## Gradofan2

Makes no difference... a lot of folks, like me... will not pay that much for an amp shipped from half way around the World, with all the risks that entails. 

 The folks at DV must be "smokin' them funny cigarettes!"

 I would far rather buy a Singlepower... if I'm going to pay that much... which I'm not.

 But... "the market" will tell them that!


----------



## Skylab

I sort of agree...the stock 337 represents enough of a value that it's worth dealing with the overseas shipping. But I'm not sure that is true of the 337SE at that price, where it's more than a SinglePower Extreme (which is a tremendously good tube amp). 

 So I say, long live the stock DV 337!


----------



## shellylh

I agree. In fact, I didn't really want to take that risk even for the price of the 337 so I ended up going with the DV 332 instead (not much risk there). I will probably upgrade to the Singlepower Extreme (or something similar) next.


----------



## djork

Anyone tried modding their 337s (other than replacing the tubes) for better sound?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. In fact, I didn't really want to take that risk even for the price of the 337 so I ended up going with the DV 332 instead (not much risk there). I will probably upgrade to the Singlepower Extreme (or something similar) next._

 

No question... the DV332 is such a value at its price... it is worth taking the risk. 

 I'm less certain about the DV337 - since several have reported the sound is so similar to the DV332... and... several have reported they received damaged amps (though it may only have been cosmetic).

 For me... the "threshold" is at about $500, or so, "all included." And... if they could "guarantee" the DV337 would be received in perfect condition... maybe... $700. 

 But... above that... I'm joining either the Woo Club, or Singlepower Club - where I can be certain... I'll get a perfect amp backed by a reliable, "local" vendor!


----------



## Skylab

I think it is HIGHLY debatable that Singlepower is more reliable on delivery or repair than Darkvoice. Do a search. WooAudio, on the other hand, has an excellent reputation, so this would be a good way to go if this sort of thing is a huge concern.


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

My experience with Jasmine aka Darkvoice shipper was exceptional! The item shipped in a timely manner and was at my door in about 6 days. The stock 337 is an amazing amp! It is dual mono with two volume pots (really helpful) and has an incredible amount of headroom and power (and the tubes are downright cheap compared to the ridiculous prices NOS fetches these days). I completely agree with SkyLab's assessment of the best tubes (RCA JAN 6AS7G/TungSol 5998 for power and JAN Phillips 6SJ7WGT for drivers). Aside from the annoying "buzzing" of the drivers - took 24-48 hours for mine to completely become quiet) I have no complaints about this amp. If it happens to develop problems, I have a handy Stereo Service (who specializes in vacuum tube equipment - I know because my Cary 300SEI was in "twice" for repair while I owned it). The 337 is much better to my ears than any other head amp I've owned (and I've had a few). It meets my very simply method of upgrading - do I still think about of an upgrade after living with the piece for awhile? If not, then I'm done! I think this amp represents an incredible value and I would have never found out about if not for this forum - thanks to all!


----------



## shellylh

Good to know. Thanks.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it is HIGHLY debatable that Singlepower is more reliable on delivery or repair than Darkvoice. Do a search. WooAudio, on the other hand, has an excellent reputation, so this would be a good way to go if this sort of thing is a huge concern._


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it is HIGHLY debatable that Singlepower is more reliable on delivery or repair than Darkvoice. Do a search. WooAudio, on the other hand, has an excellent reputation, so this would be a good way to go if this sort of thing is a huge concern._

 

I hadn't read many posts about SP being unreliable - but... I haven't read many of those threads, because I've considered them a bit overpriced relative to their performance vs others... and... the fact that I refuse to spend more than about a $1000 for any component - just for 5%+ better SQ. Although, I have seen several that suggested they may be a bit slow to respond - which I guess is to be expected, given the demand relative to the size of their shop.

 Do you think its possible or probable that a buyer could get a new DV337 without any damage to it?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daleda@sbcglobal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...If it happens to develop problems, I have a handy Stereo Service (who specializes in vacuum tube equipment - I know because my Cary 300SEI was in "twice" for repair while I owned it)._

 

Where and what service would that be? We might all benefit from knowing.


----------



## Skylab

I have read threads in which people sent in Singlepower amps to get repaired and waited a VERY long time to get them. I have a Singlepower amp, and love it, but I bought it here in the FS forums.

 I got my DV 337 through Jasmine as well, who is great to work with. It arrived with a very small amount of cosmetic damage due to the tube cage being loose. But it really isn't noticeable. The amp itself works very well. I am listening to it as I type this - yummy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I slightly prefer the Singlepower Extreme to the DV337, but the Extreme is quite a bit more expensive.


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

Here you go - tech's name is Mike (a true wizard with anything tubes) right here in River City (Austin, Texas).

Austin Stereo Service & Repair, Vintage Hi-Fi, Vintage Stereo, Vacuum Tubes


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Do you think its possible or probable that a buyer could get a new DV337 without any damage to it? 
 

Buy the amp in China yourself and ship it back to yourself in the US.


----------



## Mazuki

No matter what, I think it's important to mention that Darkvoice is a Chinese company selling mainly to Chinese/Asian countries. We're sort of "on the fringe" here ordering a Chinese market amp (the 337, not the 336 which had 110V version specifically made) from China.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daleda@sbcglobal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here you go - tech's name is Mike (a true wizard with anything tubes) right here in River City (Austin, Texas).

Austin Stereo Service & Repair, Vintage Hi-Fi, Vintage Stereo, Vacuum Tubes_

 

Probably a lot less costly than returning it to China... and less risky... with the lengthy return shipment.

 Thanks...


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Buy the amp in China yourself and ship it back to yourself in the US._

 

That would be fine... except... I don't get to Hong Kong that often... and the cost of the trip... would make the amp way to expensive. But... I'll keep that in mind for my next trip.


----------



## Skylab

I will almost certainly get to Hong Kong on business this year, and I plan to buy some tube headphone amp while I am there for sure!


----------



## tigerkai

Hi guys thinking of getting the RCA JAN 6AS7G and JAN Phillips 6SJ7WGT tubes that you guys had highly recommended for DV337,btw where i can purchase them from as i'm from Singapore can't find any here.pls help thks.


----------



## Skylab

Sorry to say I just sold my extras, but you can get them all on EBay, just be careful, or you can get the 6SJ7WGT's from Angela Instruments: Online Catalog, and 6AS7G's from Antique Electronic Supply


----------



## Mazuki

It's too bad the Orphean Sound Lab that makes the Darkvoice line is located all the way in central China. If it were somewhere in the Pearl River Delta, you could go and buy a custom 337SE yourself!


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's too bad the Orphean Sound Lab that makes the Darkvoice line is located all the way in central China. If it were somewhere in the Pearl River Delta, you could go and buy a custom 337SE yourself!_

 

Hi, I just got myself a K1000 over ebay. Seeing that you own a K1000 too, how well do u think the 337 drives it?


----------



## dikyllis

does any1 have a this problem with the 337?

 I could receive radio broadcasting from the 337 when there is no signal from my cd transport? I plug out the rca source, there is still radio music

 I could hear them when music is playing, is like some noise, because the DJ was talking

 It is much obvious when the volume is tuned down to lowest

 what could the reason be?


----------



## tomjtx

dikyllis;3805027 said:
			
		

> does any1 have a this problem with the 337?
> 
> I could receive radio broadcasting from the 337 when there is no signal from my cd transport? I plug out the rca source, there is still radio music
> 
> ...


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Hi, I just got myself a K1000 over ebay. Seeing that you own a K1000 too, how well do u think the 337 drives it? 
 

The Darkvoice website specifies that the 337 outputs 2 watts. Assuming that's for a low output impedance, at 250ohms, it would be even more. The K1000s need about 1 watt at 250ohms. 

 It's been over a year since I listened to the K1000s, but they sounded pretty good. The output power of the 337 might be just enough to run the K1000s. It's definitely not the best amp to match though.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 does any1 have a this problem with the 337?

 I could receive radio broadcasting from the 337 when there is no signal from my cd transport? I plug out the rca source, there is still radio music

 I could hear them when music is playing, is like some noise, because the DJ was talking

 It is much obvious when the volume is tuned down to lowest

 what could the reason be? 
 

I experienced this with the ASL MG Head OTL that I had a couple of years ago. You probably just need to move it a bit.


----------



## dikyllis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I experienced this with the ASL MG Head OTL that I had a couple of years ago. You probably just need to move it a bit._

 

It really was the RCA cable...I shift it lower and it works, if It hang on the air the 337 became a radio


----------



## djork

a little too soft driving my K1000s. after 1 o'clock it doesn't really seem to be getting any louder.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Darkvoice website specifies that the 337 outputs 2 watts. Assuming that's for a low output impedance, at 250ohms, it would be even more. The K1000s need about 1 watt at 250ohms. 

 It's been over a year since I listened to the K1000s, but they sounded pretty good. The output power of the 337 might be just enough to run the K1000s. It's definitely not the best amp to match though._

 

Just so you know... the AKG Tech reports that the K1000s need a conventional speaker amp with a minimum of 30 Watts per chanel to drive them properly. Few headphone amps will even come close.


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just so you know... the AKG Tech reports that the K1000s need a conventional speaker amp with a minimum of 30 Watts per chanel to drive them properly. Few headphone amps will even come close._

 

i've got it hooked up to my 50W/channel integrated amp now


----------



## tolk

I'm morbidly curious, if arcing occurs while listening to your headphones, what is likely to happen?


----------



## waivted

Hi guys. New to the forums and have been doing some intensive reading the last few days. I have family visiting from China in the next few weeks and since the cost is substantially lower there I was thinking of having a 337 brought for me. I was wondering for those that got these overseas directly if you guys shipped them back or just triple boxed it and checked it in on the plane? If it was shipped any idea of an estimate to CA, US? 

 Thanks


----------



## Skylab

I had mine shipped by the distributor, so I cannot completely answer your question, but I will tell you that checking it as baggage is a terrible idea. You might as well just set your money on fire


----------



## djork

I'd rather have spent more money than inconveniencing family members to buy it and bring it over, in addition you never know what happens if it's checked into the cargo. i'd rather pay more for one on ebay and have a piece of mind.


----------



## waivted

The problem is my budget is limited, and the savings is quite a significant amount. It's a few hundred in price difference. For those that got if off ebay do you guys know which company was used to ship? I'll probably take a closer look at shipping charges and ship them myself. Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

I know what I *paid* for shipping was $70 - not sure what the actual cost was, but this doesn't seem unreasonable - the 337 is a big, heavy tube amp.


----------



## waivted

Ok thanks. It was just that I saw on ebay the shipping prices were $170 and that seemed a bit high to me.


----------



## holdendebeans

Talk to the distributors directly (outside of Ebay) and you can get the shipping down substantially. A lot of sellers on Ebay mark up the shipping and realize a higher profit margin. Good Luck! It's a great amp


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *waivted* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok thanks. It was just that I saw on ebay the shipping prices were $170 and that seemed a bit high to me._

 

Just go to the USPS, UPS, FedEx sites and check it out. That's what I did for the DV332 - the cost is $80 for it. So, I'd guess the cost for the DV337, which must weigh 2-3 times as much, or more - would be $150+. 

 Just check it out... then you can make an intelligent offer. But... I wouldn't expect it to be a lot less.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Ok thanks. It was just that I saw on ebay the shipping prices were $170 and that seemed a bit high to me. 
 

Actually, when I shipped the amp from China myself, the cost came out to be about 1300RMB. That's about $180 today. It came in a week though, to Los Angeles. 

 You can opt for surface shipping, that would take a month and cost maybe around half that.

 Triple box and check-in is the way to go. Just pack the tubes separately.


----------



## dan_can

Got quote for Darkvoice 337se. It's about $1077 USD including shipping which is about $200 USD.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dan_can* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got quote for Darkvoice 337se. It's about $1077 USD including shipping which is about $200 USD._

 

Entering "Extreme Territory" - no way, I'm going to pay that much for an amp that must be shipped from "the other side of the World" - when we've got the SP Extreme right here at about the same price. Especially... with... Skylab now reporting... the Extreme is much better than the DV337 (read between the lines).


----------



## shellylh

I totally agree. I had a DV332 and really loved it but wanted something just a little more. I was always tempted to go for the 337 but did not want to pay that much for something shipped from so far away. Luckily, I was just able to grab a Singlepower Extreme on the FS forum! It should be here on Monday. I guess I won't be trying out a DV337 unless I hear one at a meet.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Entering "Extreme Territory" - no way, I'm going to pay that much for an amp that must be shipped from "the other side of the World" - when we've got the SP Extreme right here at about the same price. Especially... with... Skylab now reporting... the Extreme is much better than the DV337 (read between the lines)._


----------



## Skylab

The SP Extreme is better than the 337, but I wouldn't call it "much better".


----------



## djork

After months of enjoying the 337 with stock/ JAN 6080 tubes, the JAN 6AS7Gs finally arrived! they're sounding good


----------



## Von Soundcard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The SP Extreme is better than the 337, but I wouldn't call it "much better"._

 

Is that using tubes of the same value or using 'the best available tubes' for each. If the second is true, what is the difference in value and how do they sound using 'same value tubes' ?


----------



## Skylab

Tube value is a little tough to determine, since tube pricing is (of course) supply and demand determined, and due to obvious supply limitations for NOS tubes, some tubes that are essentially of the same quality can cost more. Perfect example is the 6SJ7's used in the 337 versus the 6SN7 used in the Extreme. 6SJ7's have seen relatively little use in high-end audio, in spite of their excellent sound. As such they are cheaper than 6SN7 variants. But I would say the overall quality level of tubes in my 337 and SP are close, perhaps favoring the SP slightly.


----------



## kostalex

Please, help. I'd like to have both tube and SS amps for different music and moods. So I appreciate tube amp to be more "tubey", softer, juicy. Now I'm stuck between DV 336 and DV 332. Cantate will be a SS companion.

 So, which do you recommend in this case - DV 336 or DV 332?


----------



## Von Soundcard

The point was that if you need to invest 100-200 $ or more in some very good tubes to make the SP sound better than the 337 than that amount goes in the balance along the rest of the price difference. Put in some potential heavy tube rolling (to find those right tubes) and you could get to a rather embarrassing price difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 BTW, how much did you pay for your SP (with 'default' tubes) ?

 @kostalex: the 336 is definitely the 'tubey' option, the 332 and 337 have been characterized as being halfway between classic tube sound and SS (having some of both). But the 336 is relatively far from 332 in general terms of sound quality (it's also quite a lot cheaper) so you may want to consider other amps, like the Doge, the Woo3 or 6... and others I'm sure will be recommended to you in another thread


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Von Soundcard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The point was that if you need to invest 100-200 $ or more in some very good tubes to make the SP sound better than the 337 than that amount goes in the balance along the rest of the price difference. Put in some potential heavy tube rolling (to find those right tubes) and you could get to a rather embarrassing price difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 BTW, how much did you pay for your SP (with 'default' tubes) ?_

 

I bought my SP Extreme used, and it came with a whole bunch of VERY nice tubes, including the Tung-Sol 5998's that I am still using with it. I honestly don't know what the stock SP tubes are. But I do know that the cost of the NOS tubes I have been using, RCA VT-231 and the 5998's is $100. The cost of the tubes I am using in the DV 337, 2 NOS 6SJ7WGT's and 2 JAN 6AS7G, is about $60. Not a huge difference, and of course, were I using 5998's in the 337 also, which I could, it would be identical.


----------



## Von Soundcard

Well then consider the same situation in which you would buy a 337 used with a whole bunch of nice (and cheaper) tubes - already researched and tracked by the owner - all with the great value of getting an already cheap amp SH and with selected tubes. _That _would make a huge difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 BTW, I think I heard someone say something about a 200 $ tube, are you not using that or did you mean to say it sounds good regardless ?


----------



## Skylab

I did "splurge" on a $200 NOS Mullard ECC32, but that was just because I felt like it. I used the $50 RCA VT-231 for months, and it sounds awesome. The ECC32 is only for the tube-obsessed. There is no need to go to that length to get awesome sound from the SP Extreme. 

 Again, except for the few overpriced 6SN7 variants, the tubes for the 337 are not cheaper than the SP Extreme. They use the same power tubes, and since the 337 requires 2 driver tubes versus the single in the SP Extreme, it's really a wash. 

 The only price difference is in the amp itself, which with shipping, comes out to about $250-300. I think that makes the 337 the better value than the SP Extreme, but I do think the Extreme is a little better sounding. 

 Also, with adapters, there are a ton of tube rolling options with the SP Extreme. The 337 does allow plenty of tube rolling possibilities, but not the same amount that the Extreme does.

 FWIW, I still own both and am keeping both. The Extreme lives in my office, and the 337 lives in my family room.


----------



## kostalex

Some of you here consider SinglePower Extreme as slightly superior to DV 337. If you tube roll DV337, is it possible to match SP Extreme stock then?


----------



## Skylab

I can't answer that question because I do not know what the stock tubes are for the SP Extreme.


----------



## Mazuki

Keep in mind the SP Extreme uses a triode (6SN7) in the input while the 337 uses a pentode (6SJ7) for input. Pentodes are more powerful than triodes but triodes are more linear and some people say they sound "sweeter".


----------



## musicmind

kostalex, just a notice though, that the Woo6 is not a typical lush "tubey" sounding amp, it is actually quite crisp with subtle tube smoothness. A very nice refined sound, very well built and no buzz/hum issues with low impedance headphones.

 I think the DV 336, which has more inexpensive tuberollling options over the DV 332, or something like an ASL MG Head DT/OTL MKIII might give you that romantic "tubey" sound you are after. I think these amps will all pair especially well with your HD650.

 The DV337 sounds to be a great amp too, if you can accomodate its size in your listening area.


----------



## kostalex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DV337 sounds to be a great amp too, if you can accomodate its size in your listening area._

 

I'm ok with size, budget, Woo or Darkvoice... I'm looking for "tube sounding" amp for both HD650 and Denon D2000.


----------



## Skylab

If you want a real tubey sound, get a EL84 based amp like the ASL MG Head or the Ming-Da MC84-C 07.


----------



## Von Soundcard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Again, except for the few overpriced 6SN7 variants, the tubes for the 337 are not cheaper than the SP Extreme. They use the same power tubes, and since the 337 requires 2 driver tubes versus the single in the SP Extreme, it's really a wash._

 

Two power tubes rather than one means they have more power and can better drive some cans / support certain passages. So the first are more expensive for the same job (not that I don't better like all triodes, mind you).
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only price difference is in the amp itself, which with shipping, comes out to about $250-300. I think that makes the 337 the better value than the SP Extreme, but I do think the Extreme is a little better sounding._

 

The price difference can vary with the upgrade options you choose for SP, so for the amps it is _at least_ 250-300. Also this is for shipping to US. Were the owner to live in EU / Asia / Australia the difference would be higher still 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 And let's remember some time ago you said:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* 
_Originally Posted by *speakerhead *
 Hello Skylab.
 I was just reading your review on the darkvoice 337 how does it compare to your SP extreme?
 The answer is a bit tricky of course, as it depends on tube choices. I slightly prefer the more meaty, organic sound of the 337 to the slightly lighter, less dense sound of the SP Extreme. But both amps are truly excellent. I think the 337 represents the better value for the money, but the Extreme has far more tube rolling optionsn and as such has the option to really have a lot of "sounds"._

 

To reverse your opinion you probably had to do a good deal of that tuberolling (even though you had already bought it with "a whole bunch of very nice tubes"), which - that's right - also costs money.

 A whole lot of money, woohaaa !!!


----------



## Skylab

Yes, finding the right 6SN7 variant was important in making the SP Extreme sing, no doubt. I used it initially with some fairly garden-variety 6SN7GTB's, and it wasn't until I used the smoked-glass RCA VT-231 that I thought I was getting the most out of it. But it wasn't that expensive a process, and of course, I enjoyed it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In any case, as I have mentioned before, the amps are VERY close in terms of performance, and as I have also mentioned before several times, I think the 337 represents the better value for money.


----------



## djork

ever seen this? Buy Groove Tubes Substi-Tube 1 6SJ7 to 12AX7 Octal to 9-Pin Adapter online

 6SJ7 --> 12AX7 hmm...


----------



## Von Soundcard

Skylab, for all the effort you have put here into Head-Fi, you truly would deserve an ultra-upgraded over-the-top modded _MPX_





 ... and a Woo5, for good measure. Now I wonder how would _those_ fare in a _head-to-head_ comparison


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ever seen this? Buy Groove Tubes Substi-Tube 1 6SJ7 to 12AX7 Octal to 9-Pin Adapter online

 6SJ7 --> 12AX7 hmm..._

 

That must be quite an adapter, since the 12AX7 is a dual-triode, and the 6SJ7 is a sharp-cutoff pentode. I can't imagine how that can be made to work. Mazuki made me some adapters to allow the 9-pin EF80 to be used in place of the 6SJ7, but the EF80 is also a sharp-cutoff pentode.

 Plus, at $32 each, those are more expensive than NOS 6SJ7WGTs! But more importantly, I just don't see how that could work.

 I see they have some adapters that allow 6SN7 > 12AT7 and 6SL7 > 12AX7. Since all of those tubes are dual-triode, that makes some sense. But the 6SJ7 one is not something I would be willing to try in any amp of mine...


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That must be quite an adapter, since the 12AX7 is a dual-triode, and the 6SJ7 is a sharp-cutoff pentode. I can't imagine how that can be made to work. Mazuki made me some adapters to allow the 9-pin EF80 to be used in place of the 6SJ7, but the EF80 is also a sharp-cutoff pentode.

 Plus, at $32 each, those are more expensive than NOS 6SJ7WGTs! But more importantly, I just don't see how that could work.

 I see they have some adapters that allow 6SN7 > 12AT7 and 6SL7 > 12AX7. Since all of those tubes are dual-triode, that makes some sense. But the 6SJ7 one is not something I would be willing to try in any amp of mine..._

 

quite interested to try the EF80s, maybe I shall contact Mazuki for the adapters.. apparently, all the EF80s on ebay are all under the "buy it now" option... which EF80s have you tried so far?

 Seems like the telefunken / tungsram ones are the most expensive lot.. how do they compare to the Philips 6SJ7WGTs we're using?


----------



## Skylab

The EF80 is identical to the 6BX6, so you can try searching on that. I have some Amperex mesh-plate ones, and I had some Telefunkens, but I never used those and sold them. 

 I used the Amperex 6BX6/EF80's for a while, and while they are quieter, I didn't feel they offered better sound than the Phillips 6SJ7WGT's, so I am back to using those. But I admit I did not try them for a lengthy period of time.


----------



## djork

guys, there's a pair of TELEFUNKEN 6AS7G for sale on ebay 

one pair TELEFUNKEN 6AS7G tubes, New in Box - eBay (item 290213610645 end time Mar-17-08 19:15:00 PDT)

 buy buy buy!


----------



## Mazuki

I'm pretty sure these are the Russian made rebranded Telefunkens. You might as well buy a pair of Winged C Svetlanas.


----------



## djork

rebranded? as in rebranding the tubes made in the same russian factory making the winged c?


----------



## Mazuki

Yeah, happens all the time. What really matters when it comes to tube sound is the factory that built the tube, not the brand.


----------



## djork

here's a pic of my amp


----------



## Skylab

Nice pics, Djork!

 AFAIK, Telefunken did not make 6AS7G's. So these may well be Svetlanas.


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice pics, Djork!

 AFAIK, Telefunken did not make 6AS7G's. So these may well be Svetlanas._

 

Thanks! 

 Those telefunken tubes hit 15$ in that few hours with six days remaining, it's crazy..


----------



## Skylab

They will sell for big bucks on EBay, because Telefunken branded tubes always do, Telefunken branded 6AS7G's are super-rare, and lots of people won't know they are Russian rebrands.

 I will point out that they might NOT be Russian tubes - they could be Ultrons


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 they could be Ultrons 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

The seller would probably be more keen to point that out if that were the case. The shape of the coke bottle glass envelope definitely matches Svetlanas more.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The seller would probably be more keen to point that out if that were the case. The shape of the coke bottle glass envelope definitely matches Svetlanas more._

 

I agree - the one pair of Ultrons I had were halo-getter, and these are bottom-getter, and they do look like Svetlanas, except for the fact that at least in the photo they look like grey plates, and all Svetlanas are black plate.


----------



## djork

What's with the ultron tubes that make it so hard to come by, while the svetlana variety is so abundant?


----------



## Skylab

Purely an issue of the number produced. Ultron in Germany didn't make nearly as many as RCA/GE in the USA or Svetlana in Russia. RCA/GE 6AS7G's are super-plentiful, super-cheap, and sound great. I have been less than enamored with the sound of the Svetlanas.

 There are other interesting but harder to find 6AS7G's from Tung-Sol, Raytheon, Chatham Electronics, and then the GEC British ECC230, which I have never been able to score a pair of.


----------



## kostalex

One more noob question:

 Is it easy to mod DV 337 to balanced way?


----------



## kostalex

Have anybody compared DV 337 (or 332) to WooAudio 4?


----------



## Mazuki

You will need two Darkvoice 337s to have a balanced amp. Little Dot is supposedly coming out with a balance 6AS7 OTL headamp. Look out for that one.


----------



## Von Soundcard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You will need two Darkvoice 337s to have a balanced amp. Little Dot is supposedly coming out with a balance 6AS7 OTL headamp. Look out for that one._

 

And when should we expect _that _small wonder ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Will it be on the level of 337 ?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You will need two Darkvoice 337s to have a balanced amp. Little Dot is supposedly coming out with a balance 6AS7 OTL headamp. Look out for that one._

 

Wow, that could be VERY interesting!


----------



## djork

Little-Tube-¶ú·Å×¨°æ-Æ½ºâ¶ú·ÅV3.0

 here..

 the philips 6080 tubes they using can be had for cheaply on ebay...

 it's funny though, in this prototype they seem to have sliced a tin can into two to house the transformers.


----------



## dreamwhisper

I can't bear to read this whole thread,
 has anyone compared the DV 337 and the DV 332?
 I heard they were very similar..


----------



## nor_spoon

Oh! That amp looks interesting! Anyone that can translate whats written?


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh! That amp looks interesting! Anyone that can translate whats written?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Which one? you mean the little tube amp link I posted?


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which one? you mean the little tube amp link I posted?_

 

Yes. I found the other thread after I posted here.


----------



## djork

4路独立的放大器组成全平衡电路。
 fully balanced circuit consisting of a 4 way (?) independent amplifier

 采用4连ALPS音量电位器做音量调节。
 utilizing 4 ALPS pot for volume control

 推KK感觉不错，呵呵。。。
 Sounds good when used to push the K1000


----------



## nor_spoon

Nice


----------



## dikyllis

any1 have such problem with their 337?

 I can hear radio station signal station when music is low volume, and is even louder when no music and volume knob is '0', I plug out the RCA input cable and there goes the radio station signal.

 I have swap/change rca cables, taralabs to diy beldens, all of them doesn't work

 I am suspecting my 337 now, any1 have this problem too?


----------



## tigerkai

Hi Guys anyone tried 6528 cause there is a pair in ebay for auction.thinking of bidding, but wonder how to they sound on the DV337?


----------



## djork

i did a little search on head-fi regarding the 6528 tube --> http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/zan...40/index3.html

 not sure whether do they need some modifications done for it to be used on your darkvoice


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tigerkai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Guys anyone tried 6528 cause there is a pair in ebay for auction.thinking of bidding, but wonder how to they sound on the DV337?_

 

It's the 6520 that is more or less equivalent to the 6AS7. I don't think trying the 6528 is a good idea. I have also heard from other people that it's a terrible sounding tube.


----------



## tigerkai

I thought 6528 is basically 2 5998 in parallel,Since 5998 can be used on DV337 why can't 6528?


----------



## Skylab

I have no idea about that, but I do know the 6528 and the 5998 have *very* different electrical properties. 

 Then there is Mikhail from SinglePower saying they sound bad in the Extreme.

 Then there is this from Tubes Asylum:

  Quote:


 Check your 6528's out thoroughly. If they've been used, they're probably junk. The similar 6336B suffers the same problem. These valves are designed for very high continous current service, and it wrecks (poisons) the cathodes very quickly. Pulled out of the power supplies of military equipment (Usually ground-based avionics-related stuff), they are usually flatter than pancakes! They can make very poor surplus store buys! They have prodigious filament requirements, 5.0A @ 6.3V which make filament powering pretty expensive & bulky. 
 I think it is a great audio tube, but definitely not for beginners. It is high-current/low impedance, hardly ideal for SET use. And it really comes into it's own if you put some real feedback around it.
 It sounds much more like a DHT than the indirectly-heated beast it really is. It has outrageous transconductance, about triple that of an EL34 PER SECTION. 
 

With 5998's sounding so excellent, and so readily available at under $20 each, I cannot imagine why anyone would want to mess with a 6528 in this amp.


----------



## djork

5998 for under 20? I'd seriously like to give it a try. Where do you get yours?


----------



## Skylab

I have seen a bunch sell on EBay recently for under $20, or you can get NOS ones from Antique Electronic Supply for $27 each.


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

That statement makes me wonder what the context was of the conversation. IMHO, the 6528 is one of the better sounding output tubes that you can use with an Extreme that has been modified to accept them-especially for low impedance cans.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then there is Mikhail from SinglePower saying they sound bad in the Extreme._

 

Happy Listening!


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tigerkai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought 6528 is basically 2 5998 in parallel,Since 5998 can be used on DV337 why can't 6528?_

 


 The 6528 requires 2x the heater current of the 5998. If you use the 6528 .... your amp will go up in smoke.


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's the 6520 that is more or less equivalent to the 6AS7. I don't think trying the 6528 is a good idea. I have also heard from other people that it's a terrible sounding tube._

 

The 6528 is a nice sounding tube that sounds much like any of the other regulator tubes used as power tubes = more neutral, clean and solid state like. The 6528, IMO, does need a delayed/ soft start power supply that doesnt hit the tube with the full B+ at turn on .... or the tube wil die quickly.


----------



## Skylab

Well, you are the expert! Thanks for the info. I have never tried it, so I can't say whether it sounds good or not. 

 But for the reasons you indicate above, I *definitely* wouldn't try it in a DV337.


----------



## Mazuki

The 6528 in the 337? Shouldn't be a problem, as long as you don't leave it on overnight. I can't say they sound dramatically better than other 6AS7 equivalents, but it certainly does make the music very punchy.


----------



## tigerkai

Sorry! so do u guys think that i should bid the pair n try them on my DV337,i'm really afraid that my 337 will smoke out.Pls advise.thks!


----------



## Skylab

I think what Mazuki said, and he is far more knowledgeable about tube circuits than I, kind of says it all. It will work, but it is likely a strain in the amp to the point where he doesn't think you should leave it on with 6528's running for a long time.

 And then there are the other points - many 6528's may fail. The amp wasn't designed for them. They cost MORE than 6AS7G's or 5998's, which sound great in the 337, and there isn't any reason to think that the 6528's will sound better.

 So - why do it?????


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Sorry! so do u guys think that i should bid the pair n try them on my DV337,i'm really afraid that my 337 will smoke out.Pls advise.thks! 
 

Your 337 won't smoke out. 

  Quote:


 So - why do it????? 
 

As Skylab said, don't do it. For the money, it's better to stick with 5998s or if you ever see them, 7236s. 

 Here's another way to look at it. A 6528 is essentially two 5998s wired in parallel. So why not try one 5998 before trying two? 

 If you can't hear the difference between a 5998 and a 6AS7, then you probably won't hear it with the 6528.


----------



## Mazuki

Also, check out this meet in Chengdu, China. This is the same city that Darkvoice is located.

³É¶¼2008Äê3ÔÂ¶ú»ú·¢ÉÕÓÑ¾Û»áÍ¼Æ¬Ðã - ³É¶¼ö¦Òô·» - Õý¹æ³§¼Ò½»Ò×Çø - µ¨ÒÕÐùÒôÏì²ÄÁÏÍø ÒôÏì|½»Ò×|µç×Ó¹Ü|µ¨»ú|µ¨»úÍøÕ¾|µ¨»úÂÛÌ³|µ¨»ú²ÄÁÏ|Ê ä³öÅ£|±äÑ¹Æ÷|µçÔ´Å£|µç×è|µçÈÝ - Powered by Discuz!

 I'm actually rather surprised that the 337SE doesn't have the counter-bored volume knobs that the regular 337 does.


----------



## Von Soundcard

Some advice on this tube: I've got a small homemade amp which uses one E88CC (6922) as input and one 6080 as output. Should I use one of those 6528 in it ? 
 I'd be curious to see how it sounds (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) but I wouldn't want to burn down the amp or input tube, nor to do away with this tube which was lent from someone.


----------



## djork

based on the tolerances stuff on the previous page, i don't think u should try since the current requirements are quite high. i guess, settle for a 6AS7G or something.


----------



## djork

Anyone used 6SL7 tubes?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone used 6SL7 tubes?_

 

I assume you mean for the power tubes? You cannot use them as the driver tubes.

 I know Mazuki used 6SN7's as the power tubes once. Worked fine - but with a LOT less gain.


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, check out this meet in Chengdu, China. This is the same city that Darkvoice is located.

³É¶¼2008Äê3ÔÂ¶ú»ú·¢ÉÕÓÑ¾Û»áÍ¼Æ¬Ðã - ³É¶¼ö¦Òô·» - Õý¹æ³§¼Ò½»Ò×Çø - µ¨ÒÕÐùÒôÏì²ÄÁÏÍø ÒôÏì|½»Ò×|µç×Ó¹Ü|µ¨»ú|µ¨»úÍøÕ¾|µ¨»úÂÛÌ³|µ¨»ú²ÄÁÏ|Ê ä³öÅ£|±äÑ¹Æ÷|µçÔ´Å£|µç×è|µçÈÝ - Powered by Discuz!

 I'm actually rather surprised that the 337SE doesn't have the counter-bored volume knobs that the regular 337 does._

 

Thanks for the link Mazuki. Any comments there about any improvements of the 337SE or the 3322 over their stock versions ?


----------



## Mazuki

The two main differences between the 337 and 337SE are the input tubes and the output coupling capacitors. 

 You can adapt the EF80 to the 6SJ7 easily and would not require opening the case. The output coupling caps is another story, I suggest leaving that alone unless you want seriously mod your amp.


----------



## waivted

Hey guys I ended up picking up a 337 from China. I noticed there are 2 plugs in the back. I was wondering does anyone know what is a good step up/down transformer I can use with the amp. Where can I get it from and for how much? Thanks.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *waivted* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys I ended up picking up a 337 from China. I noticed there are 2 plugs in the back. I was wondering does anyone know what is a good step up/down transformer I can use with the amp. Where can I get it from and for how much? Thanks._

 

Why do you need a voltage transformer - didn't they send you the US 110-120 voltage unit?

 Anyway... here's a good vendor. I bought one from them for my DV332 - which the vendor sent me in error instead of the US 110-120 voltage unit. They seem to be good units at a good price, and shipment is fast. 

Voltage Converters - Voltage Transformers and Converter


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why do you need a voltage transformer - didn't they send you the US 110-120 voltage unit?_

 

He said he PICKED IT UP IN CHINA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Those look like they would do the trick, though!


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *waivted* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys I ended up picking up a 337 from China. I noticed there are 2 plugs in the back. I was wondering does anyone know what is a good step up/down transformer I can use with the amp. Where can I get it from and for how much? Thanks._

 

Congrats on your new purchase! Listen to it for a couple of months, then you might wanna tube roll a lil'.


----------



## waivted

thanks a lot I'll take a look at those. i'll try the stock tubes for a month or 2 and then give the tubes a roll.


----------



## djork

Just FYI, I'm using some Philips JAN 6SJ7WGT and RCA JAN 6AS7G at the moment.


----------



## fhuang

i finally got it. wow and i'm only using the stock tubes. i see there's lots of tubes you guys tried but what about power cables? also i suppose you need to use two exactly same cables right? anybody try not using two same cables?


----------



## Skylab

I at least am using identical power cables - inexpensive Iron Lung Jellyfish.


----------



## fhuang

337 seems/feels quite for warm/hot after a while, 15 minutes. pretty much stay the same after, an hour to 3 hours. how long do you guys leave it on? comparing to my yarland p100. it feels hot


----------



## djork

Well i can leave it on overnight to burn in the tubes / headphones. No problems, just make sure it's well ventilated. anyway, you got your 337 from mingos?


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well i can leave it on overnight to burn in the tubes / headphones. No problems, just make sure it's well ventilated. anyway, you got your 337 from mingos?_

 

yep, i finally did. i was searching for this but seems like his place is the only place that sells any darkvoice.


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yep, i finally did. i was searching for this but seems like his place is the only place that sells any darkvoice._

 

same here.. bought it after auditioning it for 1/2 an hour.


----------



## johnwmclean

Has anyone had a problem getting in touch with Jasmine, I spoke to her last week before I ordered my 337 (post earthquake) she assured me there was nothing to worry about if I ordered now. After 4 days I’ve had no response from her, I’ve emailed her everyday.


----------



## Godkin

I've been wondering about that myself. Surely, there has to be some disruption. And what about DARKVOICE themselves? They are made in CHENGDU, which as far as I know was at the epicentre of the earthquake.


----------



## Skylab

The Darkvoice factory was badly damaged in the quake. There is a thread on this. Really don't know what the current status for DV is. Its a bad situation


----------



## Godkin

Thanks, Skylab. Just found the thread and posted there. It's a terrible situation indeed.


----------



## Mazuki

Keep in mind that unless you need 110V mains electricity, that Jasmine eBay store isn't the only place to buy one of these amps...


----------



## megeso1246

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone had a problem getting in touch with Jasmine, I spoke to her last week before I ordered my 337 (post earthquake) she assured me there was nothing to worry about if I ordered now. After 4 days I’ve had no response from her, I’ve emailed her everyday.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









_

 

I was going to buy one myself so I emailed her and the response I got back was: "so sorry!for earthquake,there is no 220v verson in my stock. you should wait for so long when the factory to come back to produce again. you can contact me in 1 month. best regards sincerely jasmine"

 So probably one month from now........ 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Keep in mind that unless you need 110V mains electricity, that Jasmine eBay store isn't the only place to buy one of these amps..._

 

Hey Mazuki, what are some other places where I can get DV amps. I live in Australia


----------



## johnwmclean

There was a little delay in between emails between Jasmine and I, I had ordered a DV337, Jasmine got back to me and luckily had one 220V in stock.
 I now have my 337, super fast delivery, 4 days to Australia. I feel good about supporting China in their time of need. I ordered this amp after viewing the photos of the Darkvoice factory! Jasmine was great to deal with!
 Now to the sound of the 337 with stock tubes...


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There was a little delay in between emails between Jasmine and I, I had ordered a DV337, Jasmine got back to me and luckily had one 220V in stock.
 I now have my 337, super fast delivery, 4 days to Australia. I feel good about supporting China in their time of need. I ordered this amp after viewing the photos of the Darkvoice factory! Jasmine was great to deal with!
 Now to the sound of the 337 with stock tubes..._

 


 welcome to the 337 family!


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Hey Mazuki, what are some other places where I can get DV amps. I live in Australia 
 

Here's a list of many Darkvoice distributors:

ºÚÉ¤¸÷µØÏúÊÛÉÌ - ³É¶¼ö¦Òô·» - Õý¹æ³§¼Ò½»Ò×Çø - µ¨ÒÕÐùÒôÏì²ÄÁÏÍø ÒôÏì|½»Ò×|µç×Ó¹Ü|µ¨»ú|µ¨»úÍøÕ¾|µ¨»úÂÛÌ³|µ¨»ú²ÄÁÏ|Ê ä³öÅ£|±äÑ¹Æ÷|µçÔ´Å£|µç×è|µçÈÝ

 I would call this place first:

 [size=large]广州耳机放大器体验中心

[/size]as it is geographically closest to Australia.


----------



## fhuang

isn't Hong Kong a bit closer to Australia and just like Canton closer to LA?


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Darkvoice factory was badly damaged in the quake. There is a thread on this. Really don't know what the current status for DV is. Its a bad situation_

 

About their damage from the earthquake, someone I know who runs a large headphones store in my country e-mailed them asking about their damage and when they could supply him a next shipment. 

 It's fortunate that they said the damage wasn't significant and they could start manufacturing soon.


----------



## Old School

well, that is a good news


----------



## Skylab

Indeed it is!


----------



## alamakazam

just to check again, anyone had problem with radio frequency interference for dv337 especially when your volume is zero

 yea you can hear local radio talks


----------



## johnwmclean

My darkvoice 337 with stock tubes has never had any hum, and no radio frequency interference. In fact it’s as quite as a mouse. My impressions so far regarding sound quality to quickly summorise. 
 It doesn’t sound typically warm or tubey, it has great definition and dynamics like a great SS. The amps ability to convey dimension and tonality are breathtaking. All this with stock tubes and rubbish cable.

 IPOD 5G LOSSLESS > CHEAP CRAPPY CABLE > DV337 (STOCK TUBES) > SENN HD650 (STOCK CABLE).

 Upgrades pending delivery... 
 4G imod, new tubes (recommended by Skylab can’t remember their codes/names somewhere in this thread)

 post again soon with impressions.... 

 My comments are based or compared to Hi Fi system I had 8-10 years ago.
 Lyra Clavis DC, SME V, SOTA, CAT Signature, Audion Silver Knights, Reference 3A. Dam ...I loved this rig.

 This is my first very short review. Hope it was entertaining.
 The Darkvoice 337 is a bargain! I’m addicted again after 8 years.


----------



## tigerkai

After reading so much reviews for the DV337,i was wondering which headphones is the best combine for the amp,can anyone pls enlighten me on the feedback with their wonderful headphone combine.thks


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My darkvoice 337 with stock tubes has never had any hum, and no radio frequency interference. In fact it’s as quite as a mouse. My impressions so far regarding sound quality to quickly summorise. 
 It doesn’t sound typically warm or tubey, it has great definition and dynamics like a great SS. The amps ability to convey dimension and tonality are breathtaking. All this with stock tubes and rubbish cable.

 IPOD 5G LOSSLESS > CHEAP CRAPPY CABLE > DV337 (STOCK TUBES) > SENN HD650 (STOCK CABLE).

 Upgrades pending delivery... 
 4G imod, new tubes (recommended by Skylab can’t remember their codes/names somewhere in this thread)

 post again soon with impressions.... 

 My comments are based or compared to Hi Fi system I had 8-10 years ago.
 Lyra Clavis DC, SME V, SOTA, CAT Signature, Audion Silver Knights, Reference 3A. Dam ...I loved this rig.

 This is my first very short review. Hope it was entertaining.
 The Darkvoice 337 is a bargain! I’m addicted again after 8 years._

 

you bought some philips 6SJ7WGT and JAN RCA 6AS7G?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tigerkai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After reading so much reviews for the DV337,i was wondering which headphones is the best combine for the amp,can anyone pls enlighten me on the feedback with their wonderful headphone combine.thks_

 

The DV337 sounds heavenly with the JVC DX1000.


----------



## Godkin

All DV amps sound great with the SENNHEISER HD650s (HD580s and HD600s). The 337, unlike its smaller brothers, can basically drive anything.


----------



## nor_spoon

What do you guys think about the DV's driving the RS-1's?


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tigerkai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After reading so much reviews for the DV337,i was wondering which headphones is the best combine for the amp,can anyone pls enlighten me on the feedback with their wonderful headphone combine.thks_

 

i like it with my dt990 pro but seems better with my newly acquired hd600. not very good with akgs though.


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i like it with my dt990 pro but seems better with my newly acquired hd600. not very good with akgs though._

 

I felt it didn't sound good driving the k601. but i only had it with me for a while and now it's in my dad's possession.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you bought some philips 6SJ7WGT and JAN RCA 6AS7G?_

 

Just put philips 6SJ7WGT in, haven’t got the JAN RCA 6AS7Gs still got stock in. But there really humming loud and clear.


----------



## Skylab

Those Phillips 6SJ7WGT's take about 12-15 hours to become totally quiet, but totally quiet they will become.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those Phillips 6SJ7WGT's take about 12-15 hours to become totally quiet, but totally quiet they will become._

 

hummings starting to break up and quieten a bit after 4 hours... but the detail I’m hearings really amazing. 4g imod got delivered same time as Phillips 6SJ7WGT's so it’s a double whammy I’m on overload!


----------



## pataburd

A thoughtful, informative and illuminative review, Mazuki; and a genuinely pleasurable read on its literary merits alone!

 I've been very interested in this Darkvoice since its inception. It looks like I'll finally (and soon) get the chance to experience the 337 firsthand!

 Thanks again. : )


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hummings starting to break up and quieten a bit after 4 hours... but the detail I’m hearings really amazing. 4g imod got delivered same time as Phillips 6SJ7WGT's so it’s a double whammy I’m on overload!_

 

Yep, the JAN Phillips 6SJ7WGT is one heck of a nice sounding tube.


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, the JAN Phillips 6SJ7WGT is one heck of a nice sounding tube._

 


 how much usually cost and where to get those?


----------



## Skylab

you can get them from angela electronics - $12 each - true NOS tubes from them and they seem to have a mountain - Angela Instruments: Online Catalog


----------



## tigerkai

Hi guys anyone try this combination,grado GS1000 with darkvoice 337.
 i do own a DV337 with RS2 love the natural n involving sound,love the mid that they produced.
 Now thinking of upgarding my can to a GS1000 after reading so much about it.
 Anyone?pls advise before i jump into the hole...


----------



## fhuang

how is 337 as a pre-amp? anybody?


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how is 337 as a pre-amp? anybody?_

 

i tried it before, forget it. listen to believe


----------



## pataburd

Hi folks!
 The Darkvoice 337 (recently purchased from daleda@) is in the building! : )

 From lessons learned with the Bada PH-12, I've decided to employ "active cooling" with the 337: a 6-inch, Lasko "whisper quiet" desk fan, oriented face-to-face with the DV, runs on low. The DV is staying nice and cool. : )

 Eddy Arnold ("Lonesome Cattle Call") sounds excellent right now through the K501. : )

 Having just swapped out the Bada PH-12, I must admit that I am currently undergoing "separation anxiety" from those three, "glorious" 6SN7s, though! : )
 PAB


----------



## pataburd

After sufficient warm-up, the 337 has an iron grip on everything, really controlling the bass on the D2000 extremely well. 

 The DV seems to have everything absolutely nailed down. : )


----------



## Skylab

Welcome to the club, Patrick! Its a heck of an amp to be sure. 

 Will look forward to your comments on the tubes you are getting from me


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ . . . 
 Will look forward to your comments on the tubes you are getting from me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sky--er, Rob,
 Me, too. : ) I also just ordered some Svetlana 6H13Cs as well. (And a pair of JAN Sylvania 7C7 . . . )
 And thank you for the kind welcome!
 PAB


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Welcome to the club, Patrick! Its a heck of an amp to be sure. 
 

I second the welcome!


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 how is 337 as a pre-amp? anybody? 
 

It will work, but I suggest you use the headphone out instead of the RCAs in the back. Otherwise you won't get nearly the same bass response.


----------



## johnwmclean

Well done Pataburd! Keep us posted with your impressions!


----------



## johnwmclean

The 337 I have has always been a little noisy, not through my phones but the amp itself. I’ve noticed that throughout a listening session it gets a little more grumbly, especially when there’s big dynamic shifts. I bought 3 vibrapods and cones to see if a could reduce this problem. Straight up the amp runs alot quieter, even before listening to any music. The stock feet are very small, and this is a 15kg amp! Music is more transparent, free of congestion and quicker with the vibrapods and cones. Bass is tighter, lighter and to these ears moves the 337 towards the neutral end of the scale. I have tried cones and other isolation devices on previous amps but had marginal improvements. The Darkvoice 337 turned out to be a revelation with good isolation. Comparable to a really good stock tube upgrade.

 Let the music breath!


----------



## Skylab

Very cool. I have always used my 337 on Vibrapods, and those on top of Hockey Pucks (which are great CHEAP isolation devices 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). Works wonders, no doubt.


----------



## pataburd

JWM,
 (I)
 Have you tried tube dampers? That will quiet things down, too (ringing and microphonics originating from the tubes themselves). I've had good success with the Duende Criatura and Herbies Hal-O, although the (appreciably) cheaper ring dampers available on eBay work well, too. The Hal-O can "spring" off the waisted portion of the 6AS7, which can get annoying. In that respect, the Duende have better "grabbing" power. : ) 

 For the DV337, you're looking at about $100 to get one damper on each tube, going the Duende/Herbies route, and assuming you're running glass envelope 6SJ7s and "coke bottle" 6AS7s. Introduce the RCA 5693 or other metal jacketed tubes and/or 6080 tubes and you need even more rings to suit the different diameters. 

 (II)
 My 337 sets on (3) Herbies Ebony Domes, which in turn set on gabon ebony footers (ebony squares measuring about 2" x 2" x 1/2"), which in turn set on a piece of 1/2" MDF (although, ideally, it would be 1-1.5" thick butcher block). 

 The MDF sets atop my "Cloud 9-to-5" suspension system: this consists of five No. 4 Vibrapods with a racquet ball placed in the recess of each Vibrapod. A racquet ball/Vibrapod is placed beneath each corner of the MDF board, as well as beneath the middle of the board. : )

 At home, my DVD player chassis sets directly atop the "Cloud 9-to-5" system and sounds great. Due to disproportional weight distribution in the DV337, though, I use the MDF interface to help uniformly distribute the mass load of the amp.

 An inflated wheel barrow tire inner tube (or two) beneath the MDF works well, too. You can optimize the air pressure in the inner tube to best suit your tastes.

 PAB


----------



## johnwmclean

PAB,
 Wow that’s intense, what a bag of tricks. Big thanks for your response, really helpful stuff! Have you a pic!


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PAB,
 Wow that’s intense, what a bag of tricks. Big thanks for your response, really helpful stuff! Have you a pic!_

 

No pics! My sincere apologies. : ]


----------



## tigerkai

Guys me thinking of purchasing some tube dampers for the noise,looking through herbie's site don't know which size to get.can anyone please advise which is the right to get for philips 6SJ7WGT and JAN RCA 6AS7G. btw does it really help to quiet down the tubes?thks


----------



## pataburd

Hal-O 27 for the 6SJ7 (same as for the 6SN7), I believe, and the 43--or is it 47--for the 6AS7G(?). Herbies' website will help you find the right size for your tubes. The dampers' efficacy depends on the inherent microphonics of the tube being damped, but in general they have an overall "cleansing" effect on the sound.

 IMHE, I liked the Duendes better, but for a much less expensive alternative, the ring dampers sold on eBay aren't all that far behind performance-wise.

 The dampers will not alleviate hum, though. That can only be corrected--if correctable at all--with tube burn-in.


----------



## tigerkai

hi guy find this resistor can i replace them for the ugly green resistor found in the dv337?


----------



## Mazuki

You need 100ohms and 430ohms


----------



## bol

My 337 is dead! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I just moved to a new house and I thought I had packed up my 337 exceptionally well but upon first powerup a spark shot out of one of the R input tube socket and the output tube didn't warm up (It works on the L channel.) OK, Fine, so a tube died. Not quite. I don't even get output on the L channel and both tubes seemed to be working. 

 I try swapping the "appearing to work" tubes to the other channel. Sparks from the input tube again.

 GRR!

 Now I don't know What is wrong. I'm hesitant to start putting in new tubes just to have them fry.

 Any suggestions? Or does anyone have some crappy tubes they can sell me for cheap so I can test (nothing is available locally.)


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My 337 is dead! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just moved to a new house and I thought I had packed up my 337 exceptionally well but upon first powerup a spark shot out of one of the R input tube socket and the output tube didn't warm up (It works on the L channel.) OK, Fine, so a tube died. Not quite. I don't even get output on the L channel and both tubes seemed to be working. 

 I try swapping the "appearing to work" tubes to the other channel. Sparks from the input tube again.

 GRR!

 Now I don't know What is wrong. I'm hesitant to start putting in new tubes just to have them fry.

 Any suggestions? Or does anyone have some crappy tubes they can sell me for cheap so I can test (nothing is available locally.)_

 

If you're not a DIYer... why not just take it to the local electronics repair shop, and have them take a look at. If they're any good, I'm sure they can fix it with no problems, and pretty economically. If not... find another shop.


----------



## sonq

The DV's internal layout looks neat and well thought out, is reliability any higher than LD amps in general?


----------



## Skylab

If you swapped the tubes, and you get sparks from the same actual tube (as opposed to the same tube SOCKET), they the issue is the tube and you should replace it. 6SJ7's are cheap.


----------



## bol

Sparks came from the same socket, not the same tube.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sparks came from the same socket, not the same tube._

 

Bummer. That sounds like a more serious problem. Time to take it to a repair shop if you have one.


----------



## tigerkai

hi guys anyone try Svetlana 6H13C on the DV337.how u like the sound?
 please advise thks.


----------



## Skylab

The Svetlanas IMO were only a little better than the stock Chinese tubes. They are not as good sounding as RCA grey or black plates (which can be had very cheap), so they are not worth it, IMO.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tigerkai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys anyone try Svetlana 6H13C on the DV337.how u like the sound?
 please advise thks._

 

Tiger,
 Skylab and I have differing opinions about the Svetlana 6H13C: he doesn't like the tube and I do. It was one of my favorites for the 336i, and I am enjoying the Svetlanas in the 337 as well. 

 I find them open, clean and honest, but without harshness or glare. Will put them in my DV337 tonight, God willing, and report on the 337 tube-rolling thread. With the Mullard 6080 in-house, I don't have much of a desire to switch out the power tubes, though. : )
 PAB


----------



## Skylab

Exactly - we all do hear things differently.

 I received my Mullard 6080's but have not tried them yet.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly - we all do hear things differently.

 I received my Mullard 6080's but have not tried them yet._

 

Sky,
 Be sure to share your regarded opinion about the Mullards! : )
 With the D2000 and the KuhlTube CAA-6SJ7WGT, the Mullards really "get me there." : )
 PAB


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tigerkai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys anyone try Svetlana 6H13C on the DV337.how u like the sound?
 please advise thks._

 

Tiger,
 I retubed with the Svetlanas last night and had a fine session with the K501. : ) See the 337 Tube-rolling thread for a brief summary. It just confirmed my longstanding preference for these Russian "sleepers."

 Again, I like the Svetlanas quite a bit; Skylab likes them not very much at all.

 PAB


----------



## tigerkai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tiger,
 I retubed with the Svetlanas last night and had a fine session with the K501. : ) See the 337 Tube-rolling thread for a brief summary. It just confirmed my longstanding preference for these Russian "sleepers."

 Again, I like the Svetlanas quite a bit; Skylab likes them not very much at all.

 PAB_

 

thks pataburd for the great review.
 had anyone tried the mullard ef37 on the 6sj7?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tigerkai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thks pataburd for the great review.
 had anyone tried the mullard ef37 on the 6sj7?_

 

That would be a bad idea - the EF37 is equivalent to the 6J7, not the 6SJ7


----------



## Bigjppop

I've just joined the 337 family and am really looking forward to the arrival of my new amp! I'm living in Tokyo and got a good deal in Shanghai on this monster.

 It should be arriving here in a couple of days and I'll be sure and post impressions as soon as it gets here.

 I'm interested in acquiring some nice tubes to roll into this guy so if anyone has any extra sets of tubes that they've really enjoyed, please PM me. Skylab was kind enough to sell me some 6AS7G's to get the party started.

 Hopefully I'll have some great stuff to post in the next few days!


----------



## johnwmclean

My Darkvoice 337 transformers both hum and rattle a little, one transformer is audibly more noisier than the other. You have to put your head down near the amp to hear this. It’s always been this way, vibrapods helped. Is this normal operation? Any advise would help, I’ve read somewhere that tightening the bolts that hold the transformers might help if they are loose. Sonically the amp is great with no hum through my headphones.


----------



## Skylab

How loud do they hum? A lot of transformers hum somewhat. Since you said you can't hear any noise through headphones, is there really a problem? 

 If it bothers you, the bottom cover is easy to remove if you want to try to tighten them.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How loud do they hum? A lot of transformers hum somewhat. Since you said you can't hear any noise through headphones, is there really a problem? 

 If it bothers you, the bottom cover is easy to remove if you want to try to tighten them._

 

Thanks Sky for replying so quickly, it’s basically a soft droning hum which can’t be heard say 3 foot away from the amp. Being dual mono and they both hum somewhat I suspect it’s just part of valve amp ownership, but I’m a newbie to headphone listening. I really don’t what to get the spanner out, if it’s just the norm.


----------



## Skylab

Well unless you hear it via headphones I personally would not worry about it


----------



## Bigjppop

Well my 337 arrived today and after my initial 15 minutes of listening (with stock tubes) all I can say is... THIS THING IS AWESOME!

 I'll be burning it in getting a feel for the stock sound for the next week or so and then its time to roll in some nice tubes.

 All I've tried with this amp so far are my HD650's and they sound great. You can tell this thing has the brute strength to really dig down and grab hold of your cans and show them who's boss.

 I'll post further impressions soon, but right out of the box... very impressed!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bigjppop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well my 337 arrived today and after my initial 15 minutes of listening (with stock tubes) all I can say is... THIS THING IS AWESOME!

 I'll be burning it in getting a feel for the stock sound for the next week or so and then its time to roll in some nice tubes.

 All I've tried with this amp so far are my HD650's and they sound great. You can tell this thing has the brute strength to really dig down and grab hold of your cans and show them who's boss.

 I'll post further impressions soon, but right out of the box... very impressed!_

 

Very curious how it compares to your other amps, especially the WA6.

 Even if its only very early first impressions - if its sufficiently better, it should be readily obvious, not subtle.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bigjppop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well my 337 arrived today and after my initial 15 minutes of listening (with stock tubes) all I can say is... THIS THING IS AWESOME!

 I'll be burning it in getting a feel for the stock sound for the next week or so and then its time to roll in some nice tubes.

 All I've tried with this amp so far are my HD650's and they sound great. You can tell this thing has the brute strength to really dig down and grab hold of your cans and show them who's boss.

 I'll post further impressions soon, but right out of the box... very impressed!_

 

Congratulations, very interested in comparisons as well.


----------



## Bigjppop

Well, like I said, I've only been listening with my HD650's but so far I believe it is head and shoulders above the WA6 in one clear area; the 337 has GOBS more power than the WA6. There is simply no comparison (I had the stock WA6).

 This makes a big difference for me since I use an iMod as a source which has a low output voltage (less than one volt). Even with this low voltage, the 337 man-handles my cans. The extra power, while allowing you to use almost any source with any outpout voltage, can probably drive just about any can (I've never heard the k1000 so I can't speak to that). It also really firms up the bass (when compared to the WA6).

 I'll have more to post later, but I believe the 337 to be superior to the WA6. My main problem with the WA6 was low gain/volume and not rock solid bottem end. The WA6 had a sandstone solid bottem end (still good, but not as good as the 337). If I had a source with more voltage I might have had a better results with the WA6 but that still tells me the 337 is a better product because it has more versatility.

 I need to give the 337 a run with my other cans (see sig) to really know for sure, but on initial impressions I'm very impressed. Every said the Darkvoice amps mate well with Senns (which have proven to be my favorite headphones) and I have to agree.


----------



## johnwmclean

Are you planning to tube roll, 337 with stock tubes is nice, with good tubes it's truly amazing. I have just upgraded from a 4G imod to a Cambridge 840C, the 337 let's it all shine through, it just keeps giving. I also use Senns 650's.


----------



## Bigjppop

Yes, I've got some NOS Tung Sol 5998's as well as some Westinghouse 6AS7G's (rebranded RCA's I've been told) to try in the front and I've got some of the red RCA 5693's and some Tung Sol mesh plate 6SJ7GT's on the way for the back. Really looking forward to hearing what else this baby can do.

 I'm considering upgrading my source to a Squeezebox Duet with an outboard DAC (considering the Yulong DAH1 mark) because I'm pretty sure I can never go back to the inconvenience of a stand alone CDP.


----------



## pataburd

Congrats, BJB!
 The DV337 does much better, IMHE, with the Sennheiser HD6x0 than with the K501--or the D2000 or D5000 for that matter. 

 (Actually, with careful tube selection, the latter three can sound fairly respectable, too. But I strongly feel that the DV337/K501 combination is far, far from optimal, and the DV337/Denon pairings not the best, either. Compared to the stock Bada PH-12, the DV337 doesn't even come close to making the K501 truly sing, IMHE. After the mods are done on the Bada and upon its return, the DV337 will be history, I'm sure. While, unquestionably, the DV has ample power reserves and maintains a very stable, well-differentiated and "tidy" headstage, to my ears and given the headphones I prefer listening to, it ultimately lacks musicality, synergy, and leans more heavily toward the analytical end of the spectrum. I've always "blamed" the 6SJ7 driver tube, which DV implemented in the 337 design. I would have much preferred an encore of the 6SN7, which I'd come to enjoy alongside the 6AS7 in the DV336, but for some reason DV opted out of what I believe is a more coherent and ultimately more musical tube. The Bada uses 3x 6SN7 and Toshiba MOSFETs; and that's all the difference, in a nutshell, to my ears.)

 With some judicious NOS tube choices, the DV should serve the HD650 even better. I probably got the best sound ever from my HD600 (of erstwhile memory) with the 337. But alas! the K501 are definitively my open headphones of choice. I even prefer the D2000 to the HD600; ditto, and more so, for the D5000.

 At any rate, enjoy! : )

 PAB


----------



## Bigjppop

I'm very satisfied with my 337 and overall with the service I received from audiophilechina. 

 There was a slight mixup with the shipping of my amp (I received a Yulong DAC instead of the 337) but the situation was rectified promptly, a brand new 337 arrived shortly thereafter and everything worked out great.

 Highly recommended source for Chinese Head-fi gear.

 Now, how does the 337 sound after a couple of days... Great! I have been listening to it stock for the last couple of days and will try some Tung Sol 5998's today to see what kind of changes they bring. 

 This amp brings out the innate characteristics of all of my headphones but in the end has only reinforced the fact the the HD650's are my favorite.

 I'll report on my tube rolling results later today.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bigjppop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm very satisfied with my 337 and overall with the service I received from audiophilechina. 

 There was a slight mixup with the shipping of my amp (I received a Yulong DAC instead of the 337) but the situation was rectified promptly, a brand new 337 arrived shortly thereafter and everything worked out great.

 Highly recommended source for Chinese Head-fi gear.

 Now, how does the 337 sound after a couple of days... Great! I have been listening to it stock for the last couple of days and will try some Tung Sol 5998's today to see what kind of changes they bring. 

 This amp brings out the innate characteristics of all of my headphones but in the end has only reinforced the fact the the HD650's are my favorite.

 I'll report on my tube rolling results later today._

 

That's outstanding service by Audiophile China. At least they care about great customer service... unlike some other vendors we know.

 I had the same thing happen to me by 3c-Store, who was not as concerned, or accomodating regarding their customer service. 

 If the vendor errors in shipping you the wrong item, which is what happened to me... they should do exactly what Audiophile China did. 

 That level of customer service responsiveness goes a long way toward developing a confidence level regarding the vendor. 

 However, all Chinese vendors need to either have a US/EU based warranty service point, or they should bear the cost of return shippment for warranty repairs - they just need to average the risk of loss cost into their overall prices, and adopt the policy that they pay for the shipping cost to return the amp for repairs.

 If they did that... there would be very little resistance to buying their amps - because they're great products.


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very curious how it compares to your other amps, especially the WA6.
 ._

 

x2. Thanks for posting your impressions BigJpop, especially compared to your WA6. Hope you update your impressions with the new tubes rolled in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, which tubes are you using in your WA6?


----------



## Bigjppop

Gradofan:

 I very much agree; I was very impressed with the the very rapid communication and willingness to fix the problem that audiophilechina displayed. In the end, rather than having to pay to ship the Yulong back to China they were kind enough to make me a very generous offer on the unit and I decided to purchase that as well (review and impressions to come).

 Like you said, the only thing that would be better would be having a US based pickup/dropoff point for service/returns/repairs/etc.

 In the end, finding a vendor you can trust (no matter their location) really is the most important thing. A good company that strives to take care of their customers is becoming harder and harder to find and when you do come across one its a real pleasure to deal with them.

 I very much recommend audiophilechina as a reliable source for some really nice Chinese head-fi gear.


----------



## pataburd

A few days ago, I must admit that I had an excellent session with the DV337 (w/2x JAN Philips 6SJ7WGT & 2x Mullard 6080) and the newly arrived D5000, really getting "lost" in a Henry Mancini collection. With further burn-in, the now very promising D5000 should sound even better.

 However, I've recently noticed a faint "crackling" sound in the extreme R/L channels of the 337 (audible over all three pairs of my headphones) which is intermittent and seemingly disc-dependent; it's neither traceable to bad tubes nor dirty tube pins/sockets. And this happening just as I am about to repost the DV337 on the FS threads! 

 Needless to say, the 337 has been a sizeable, and is now becoming an increasingly bitter, disappointment to me overall. If this "crackling" problem turns out to be a costly diagnosis and fix, then I may forego the repairs, forget the sale and drop the Darkvoice directly into the Susquehanna River. : )

 Kudos for the 336, quasi-maniacal cheers for the Bada PH-12 and renewed, lengthening boos for the 337, IMHO. : )


----------



## Skylab

Hey Patrick - couple questions:

 1. Is the crackling there just within the first 30 mins, or all the time?
 2. Is it just on music "peaks", or consistent with all of the discs where it happens? Does it happen only on discs that are recorded "hot"?
 3. Do you have another source you can try?

 Just trying to help - this is an issue I have never heard...


----------



## Bigjppop

Patrick:

 That really sucks! I've had some gear that I didn't like as much as I thought I would, but to be "bitterly disappointed" in something is pretty sad. I hope it turns out to be a relatively easy fix.

 As for me, I'm more and more pleased with each passing hour. I tried my first tube rolling today (Tung Sol 5998) and so far, a slight improvement. I'm not one to say tubes COMPLETELY TRANSFORM an amp (my ears might not be refined enough) but they definitely sound better. Slightly blacker background, more space around voices and instruments, overall a very pleasing sound. They've only got about two hours on them so I'll wait a little while to see what else happens.

 Out of curiousity, do the power tubes or driver tubes make a bigger difference in sound quality?


----------



## Bigjppop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2. Thanks for posting your impressions BigJpop, especially compared to your WA6. Hope you update your impressions with the new tubes rolled in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BTW, which tubes are you using in your WA6?_

 

I used some NOS RCA 6DE7's in the driver slots and a few different tubes as the rectifier. I tried a Phillips Miniwatt (I'm pretty sure), the stock tube, and some other tube that I can't remember (GE I think).

 I sold the WA6 a while back and since aural memory is so short, I can't give exact comparisons but I know I sold the WA6 and I have no desire to part with the Darkvoice.

 Like I've mentioned in the past, I think my main problem with the WA6 was due to the very low output voltage of my source (iMod). I think I would have enjoyed the WA6 much more had I had a source with more juice. That being said, I still believe the Darkvoice to be a superior product simply for the fact that its more versatile than the WA6. A low voltage source is no problem for the Darkvoice. I would enjoy a side by side comparison between the two (with a powerful source) but that is not likely to happen anytime soon.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bigjppop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Out of curiousity, do the power tubes or driver tubes make a bigger difference in sound quality?_

 

I think the driver tubes make a bigger difference. And the Chinese driver tubes are especially bad, IMO.


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the driver tubes make a bigger difference. And the Chinese driver tubes are especially bad, IMO._

 

i only have a tube amp before(yarland p100 and i think there was some improvment but not a night and day difference) although i'm aware of all the tube rolling thread and anyway, i think i want to have a source/cd player upgrade first before i put my money into the tubes. right?


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Patrick - couple questions:

 1. Is the crackling there just within the first 30 mins, or all the time?
 2. Is it just on music "peaks", or consistent with all of the discs where it happens? Does it happen only on discs that are recorded "hot"?
 3. Do you have another source you can try?

 Just trying to help - this is an issue I have never heard..._

 

Sky,
 Thanks for writing. In answer to your questions:
 (1) The crackling tendency is there well beyond the first 30 minutes.
 (2) The phenomenon seems to be recording-dependent. e.g. it was not evident with a Henry Mancini disc, but was evident with a Pat Metheny cd and a Bob James SACD. It could have a stronger association with high load or "hot" recordings.
 (3) There are two alternate sources. I'd like to swap out the Oppo for the Panasonic S47 and listen again tonight.

 Hopefully, it's directly related to something other than the DV337.

 My apologies for sounding overly (negatively) critical of the 337, given my current levels of frustration. The Darkvoice was an amp I had been wanting to audition for quite a while, and I'm glad to have gotten the opportunity to do so. That said, however, and given my headphone preferences, this amp just didn't--and still doesn't--grab my attention like it has done for many on these threads. With the D5000, I must admit, it's actually come close to sounding "magical" or even "mezmerizing," but to me the 337 can/will never do for me what the Bada already does. Now, with this undiagnosed/unsolved problem, the 337's critical resalability may be compromised: THAT is what makes the disappointment bitter.

 Now, if Darkvoice had implemented the 6SN7 instead of the 6SJ7, maybe this story would have more of a happily ever after ending to it. There's just something, IMHE, slightly hard, unnatural and ultimately musically unsatisfying about the Darkvoice 337 relative to the Bada PH-12 (sigh!). : )

 PAB


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sky,
 Thanks for writing. In answer to your questions:
 (1) The crackling tendency is there well beyond the first 30 minutes.
 (2) The phenomenon seems to be recording-dependent. e.g. it was not evident with a Henry Mancini disc, but was evident with a Pat Metheny cd and a Bob James SACD. It could have a stronger association with high load or "hot" recordings.
 (3) There are two alternate sources. I'd like to swap out the Oppo for the Panasonic S47 and listen again tonight.

 Hopefully, it's directly related to something other than the DV337.

 My apologies for sounding overly (negatively) critical of the 337, given my current levels of frustration. The Darkvoice was an amp I had been wanting to audition for quite a while, and I'm glad to have gotten the opportunity to do so. That said, however, and given my headphone preferences, this amp just didn't--and still doesn't--grab my attention like it has done for many on these threads. With the D5000, I must admit, it's actually come close to sounding "magical" or even "mezmerizing," but to me the 337 can/will never do for me what the Bada already does. Now, with this undiagnosed/unsolved problem, the 337's critical resalability may be compromised: THAT is what makes the disappointment bitter.

 Now, if Darkvoice had implemented the 6SN7 instead of the 6SJ7, maybe this story would have more of a happily ever after ending to it. There's just something, IMHE, slightly hard, unnatural and ultimately musically unsatisfying about the Darkvoice 337 relative to the Bada PH-12 (sigh!). : )

 PAB_

 

I cannot help of course with your dissatisfaction about the 337's sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But in terms of the cracking, it might be that your CD player's output voltage is high, and on peaks of hotly recorded CDs it is clipping the input of the 337. If you try the other source and don't have this problem, that is what i would suspect. This does not mean your source is "bad" - it's just a compatibility mismatch between the 337 and your source (and it means your 337 is not defective and can be sold 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I cannot help of course with your dissatisfaction about the 337's sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But in terms of the cracking, it might be that your CD player's output voltage is high, and on peaks of hotly recorded CDs it is clipping the input of the 337. If you try the other source and don't have this problem, that is what i would suspect. This does not mean your source is "bad" - it's just a compatibility mismatch between the 337 and your source (and it means your 337 is not defective and can be sold 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

Sky,
 Can't you guys sprinkle me with magic Darkvoice 337 fairy dust, or something? : )

 Your trouble-shooting idea sounds very plausible. And, come to think of it, I don't recall hearing the crackling sound when the Panasonic S47 was hooked up originally.

 Will swap out the Oppo this evening, God willing, then hopefully have the 337 back on the FS threads tomorrow! : )

 Patrick


----------



## Gradofan2

If someone hasn't already asked... could it be radio frequency interference from your cell phone, or other device?

 I had that problem once.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If someone hasn't already asked... could it be radio frequency interference from your cell phone, or other device?

 I had that problem once._

 

GF2,
 The very makeshift arrangement is near a small TV, with cables lying about and atop one another helter-skelter, so it could an RFI issue.

 Hopefully, whatever it is is not traceable directly to the DV337. : )

 Will experiment and report on the outcome(s).

 PAB


----------



## coolcat

nice picture


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bigjppop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used some NOS RCA 6DE7's in the driver slots and a few different tubes as the rectifier. I tried a Phillips Miniwatt (I'm pretty sure), the stock tube, and some other tube that I can't remember (GE I think).

 I sold the WA6 a while back and since aural memory is so short, I can't give exact comparisons but I know I sold the WA6 and I have no desire to part with the Darkvoice.

 Like I've mentioned in the past, I think my main problem with the WA6 was due to the very low output voltage of my source (iMod). I think I would have enjoyed the WA6 much more had I had a source with more juice. That being said, I still believe the Darkvoice to be a superior product simply for the fact that its more versatile than the WA6. A low voltage source is no problem for the Darkvoice. I would enjoy a side by side comparison between the two (with a powerful source) but that is not likely to happen anytime soon._

 

Thanks Bigjppop. I'm sure the DV337 is more powerful, given its hefty size and weight compared to the WA6. Enjoy the new amp


----------



## pataburd

Sky, GF2,
 I switched the source, rerouted my cables and changed the interconnnect, and I am happy to report that the crackling sound has completely disappeared.

 Can't say for sure what was the culprit. Will try to slowly reintroduce the Oppo, then change IC. It may very well have been RFI.

 Thanks! : )

 PAB

 Postscript:
 The actual cause of the crackling was, I'm quite sure, the OneAC 2.2 amp AC conditioner that I had the DV337 plugged into. I switched out the OneAC for the 4.0 amp PowerVar and no traces of the problem remain. Apparently the OneAC was not providing the 337 with enough juice. That was the difference when I ran the system at my workplace vs. when I set it up at home: the PowerVar and not the OneAC was feeding the DV337. : )


----------



## musicmind

Thats great news, I'm glad the DV337 wasn't faulty.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats great news, I'm glad the DV337 wasn't faulty._

 

x2, MM! Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

My guess is the offending source has too hot an output voltage for the 337. It is surprising this sort of thing doesn't happen more, given how close most modern CDs come to being recorded at digital full-scale


----------



## pataburd

Sky,
 Funny, though. When I had the Oppo/DV337 hooked up at work, this problem wasn't evident.
 PAB


----------



## Skylab

Now that IS weird.


----------



## Bigjppop

I have a question on tube rolling in the 337. I've heard people mention ruining something (not sure what) by rolling tubes into the amp without waiting awhile after powering it down. I've heard some mention waiting an entire day in between power off and installing new tubes; is that the case?


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bigjppop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question on tube rolling in the 337. I've heard people mention ruining something (not sure what) by rolling tubes into the amp without waiting awhile after powering it down. I've heard some mention waiting an entire day in between power off and installing new tubes; is that the case?_

 

I've heard this from somewhere as well, would also be interested to know why.


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bigjppop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question on tube rolling in the 337. I've heard people mention ruining something (not sure what) by rolling tubes into the amp without waiting awhile after powering it down. I've heard some mention waiting an entire day in between power off and installing new tubes; is that the case?_

 

I think you might be confusing the DV337 with the Bada hybrid amp.
 The Bada would blow a mosfet if you don't wait a day.

 I've never waited between tubes with my 337 and I haven't had any problems.

 well, I have waited for the tubes to cool so I don't burn my fingers


----------



## Bigjppop

I hope that's the case! I usually only wait so I don't burn my fingers as well.

 So no danger in somewhat rapid tube changes?


----------



## Skylab

I have changed tubes in my 337 after waiting no more than 5 minutes. As long as the amp is not open, and all you are doing is changing tubes, this should be OK. At least it hasn't been an issue for me.


----------



## Mazuki

Just don't burn your hands doing it. Use a piece of cloth.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bigjppop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question on tube rolling in the 337. I've heard people mention ruining something (not sure what) by rolling tubes into the amp without waiting awhile after powering it down. I've heard some mention waiting an entire day in between power off and installing new tubes; is that the case?_

 

BJB,
 Five to ten minutes is enough time between tubes on the 337. However, I wear latex gloves and try to avoid any contact with the glass (I grasp the base of the tube when removing/inserting it). Getting oils from your fingers onto the glass can eventually cause "hot spots" and ensuing brittleness to the glass, or so I've read.

 I usually wait 6 to 12 hours before rolling tubes with the Bada, to safeguard against damage to the MOSFETS. Bada does employ (3) diodes across each MOSFET as a precaution. Actually, I've rolled tubes on the Bada after as little as 1 hour without a problem, but I normally wait at least 6 to 12 hours just to be on the safe side.
 PAB


----------



## NoPants

Hi all,

 so after a while, hm let's say around 7 months at this point, I've finally upgraded from a broken to broken-looking but working darkvoice 337. A bit has changed from my original setup, noticeably the lack of a pair of headphones which can properly connect to this amplifier haha; I'm currently AD2000-less and enjoying the k1000s through a vintage pioneer sx-100. 

 I was wondering if anyone had any opinions on how worthwhile it would be to try to source/make a TRS adapter for use with the darkvoice directly, or use the darkvoice as a preamp and try to source a decent power amp. The toll the darkvoice would take on my power bill seems for nothing in the latter configuration, but I'm on an increasingly tight budget. The problem with reselling for a new setup is that in transit over the summer the darkvoice seems to taken a beating, noticeably in the form of paint scratching around the ports where the banana plug cage inserts and the absence of a right blue LED. Cosmetic, I know, but some people care about that right?


----------



## Mazuki

Email me and I'll make you a TRS adapter.


----------



## alex1pdx

Well, I just pulled the trigger on a DV337 from Audiophile China. I don't think I've ever been so nervous about a purchase. I hope it gets here in one piece. Now on to ordering some tubes!


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alex1pdx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I just pulled the trigger on a DV337 from Audiophile China. I don't think I've ever been so nervous about a purchase. I hope it gets here in one piece. Now on to ordering some tubes!_

 

Congrats, if you're using the 650's you'll be amazed.


----------



## Bigjppop

Another member of the family... You'll love your new toy!


----------



## alex1pdx

Thanks for the warm welcome. Now I am in anguish over tube replacements. I plagiarized the setup Skylab has in his profile, but I am having difficulty locating those tubes at a reasonable price. It seems that it would cost me well over $100 to purchase these tubes. Do you think that I will be satisfied for a while with the stock tubes? I need to recover from the financial hit I took with ordering the amp. I am also thinking of getting an Equinox cable for my HD650, but the bottom line is not pretty. So far I've been able to fund the purchase of the DV337 without dipping into my student loans, as I don't really think it is ethical to use those funds for audio gear anyway. Decisions, decisions! The very weak voice of common sense deep inside me is struggling to get to the surface and tell me to stop.


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alex1pdx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the warm welcome. Now I am in anguish over tube replacements. I plagiarized the setup Skylab has in his profile, but I am having difficulty locating those tubes at a reasonable price. It seems that it would cost me well over $100 to purchase these tubes. Do you think that I will be satisfied for a while with the stock tubes? I need to recover from the financial hit I took with ordering the amp. I am also thinking of getting an Equinox cable for my HD650, but the bottom line is not pretty. So far I've been able to fund the purchase of the DV337 without dipping into my student loans, as I don't really think it is ethical to use those funds for audio gear anyway. Decisions, decisions! The very weak voice of common sense deep inside me is struggling to get to the surface and tell me to stop._

 

Hey, i'm a student here too (my 337 is just right next to my desk in my dorm room). If you're short on cash, i suggest you not to purchase the replacement cable for the 650 yet. Stock tubes sound OK to me, but if you REALLY have to spend some more money, get some phillips 6SJ7WGT from ebay for about 11USD apiece. as for the big tube, some JAN RCA ones pop up occasionally and they don't go for too much compared to the 5998 or mullard 6080. Pataburd mentioned that he likes the svetlanas too.


----------



## Bigjppop

I would put a cable WAY down your list of priorities, especially if money is tight. 

 If I were you, I'd enjoy the stock 337 for awhile before you even start rolling tubes. Get a feel for the sound of the amp and who knows, you might be plenty pleased with the way it is. I really enjoyed the stock sound and I put quite a few hours on them before I tried any other tubes.

 I've mentioned it before in the 337 tube rolling thread, but to my ears, tubes really don't make a HUGE difference in the sound of an amp. If you don't like it stock, I don't think any amount of tube rolling is going to change that. I think different tubes offer different variations on the theme of the amp, but the overall character of the amp is going to come through.

 Now, all that being said, there are some really great bargains to be had in the tube complement on the 337 (one of the reasons I bought it). Try the RCA "Red Hots", Pataburd has some for sale right now on the FS page for a good price. I really liked them and they're cheap. As for power tubes; check the 337 tube rolling thread for some suggestions on reputable dealers that sell them pretty cheap (again, Skylab's recs).

 Anyway, bottom line, enjoy it stock for a while; no need to rush into anything else until you've spent some nice time with what you've go already.

 Enjoy!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bigjppop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would put a cable WAY down your list of priorities, especially if money is tight. 

 If I were you, I'd enjoy the stock 337 for awhile before you even start rolling tubes. Get a feel for the sound of the amp and who knows, you might be plenty pleased with the way it is. I really enjoyed the stock sound and I put quite a few hours on them before I tried any other tubes.

 I've mentioned it before in the 337 tube rolling thread, but to my ears, tubes really don't make a HUGE difference in the sound of an amp. If you don't like it stock, I don't think any amount of tube rolling is going to change that. I think different tubes offer different variations on the theme of the amp, but the overall character of the amp is going to come through.

 Now, all that being said, there are some really great bargains to be had in the tube complement on the 337 (one of the reasons I bought it). Try the RCA "Red Hots", Pataburd has some for sale right now on the FS page for a good price. I really liked them and they're cheap. As for power tubes; check the 337 tube rolling thread for some suggestions on reputable dealers that sell them pretty cheap (again, Skylab's recs).

 Anyway, bottom line, enjoy it stock for a while; no need to rush into anything else until you've spent some nice time with what you've go already.

 Enjoy!_

 

I agree... 

 I you've got the "new" version of the HD650s (just bought them new, and not a pair 2+ years old) - I would just stick with the stock cable for now. It sounds great and you won't really improve the sound more than about 5%. The "new" version of the HD650s, need very little tweaking - they're great "right out of the box," with a good amp. And the DV337 is a great amp for the HD650s.

 I'd also agree that tube changes make rather subtle changes in the sound of many amps. At least that was my experience with the DV332. Though, I noticed much more significant changes in the SP Extreme I had. But... I've found that Tung Sol tubes are usually among the best sounding tubes - in whatever type / design / construction. The Tung Sol 5998s, and 6080s, and the tubes that often are identical to them (Cetron, Chatham, Raytheon, etc.) - seem to have consistently extended, solid, tight bass, rich mids and clear, extended highs - a very dynamic sound. Those would be among my first changes, when you start rolling tubes.

 There are not a lot of options for the 6SJ7s (unless you find/make some adapters)... but... here are some suggestions:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tub...20/203871.html

http://www.angela.com/catalog/tubes/Guitar_Tubes.html


----------



## Skylab

Right - there is no need to jump right to the tubes I use which are hard to get and somewhat pricey (although still very cheap compared to many types of tubes). The key IMO is to replace the stock tubes with ANYTHING. Getting the JAN-Phillips 6SJ7WGT from Angela Instruments: Online Catalog costs $24, and a pair of NOS 6AS7G (almost always RCA) from Antique Electronic Supply costs $20. So that's less than $50 for a MAJOR improvement in sound over the stock tubes.


----------



## alex1pdx

Thanks everyone for the sensible advice. I will look into some of the less expensive tubes, but I will definitely put the custom cable on hold. I have been using my HD650 right out of the Zero's apm section and I've been enjoying it a lot. I can only imagine how it will sound out of the DV337. I can't wait to have it delivered! From what I understand it usually takes about two weeks for delivery to the US. School starts tomorrow, so I'll be busy anyway. I'll post some impressions once I had a chance to listen to it for a while.


----------



## Mazuki

Also, don't forget there's the 6AS7GA. They're identical to 6AS7Gs except for the outside glass envelope. Last time I checked at Antique Electronic Supply, they were only $4 a piece.


----------



## alex1pdx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, don't forget there's the 6AS7GA. They're identical to 6AS7Gs except for the outside glass envelope. Last time I checked at Antique Electronic Supply, they were only $4 a piece._

 

Oh, man! I saw your post after I already ordered the 6AS7Gs from Antique ES. The funny thing is that they were listed right under the 6AS7G; just didn't make the connection (talk about being a greenhorn). But at 18/pair the 6AS7Gs are a great price as well. Beside, I think their glass envelope looks more impressive
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Now I am bidding for a pair of 6SJ7 (don't anyone DARE bid on that) but if the price gets too high I can always get them from Angela Instruments for $24 plus shipping.


----------



## alex1pdx

Well, my DV 337 arrived today. When I got home from school there was a missed delivery card in my mail box. There was no way I was going to wait until 5pm to pick up the parcel from the post office, so I started driving around the neighborhood looking for the mail truck. I found it after about five minutes of driving in the rain (gotta love Oregon). Now, two hours later, it is nice an sunny outside and I am in audio heaven! Initially I warmed up the amp with the default tubes. Until today I've been listening to my HD 650s through the Zero's internal amp, so the change wasn't subtle at all. Glorious music! However, pretty soon I noticed something I didn't like. Yes, everything was much more clear and defined, but I was shocked to realize that on some passages the 650 was actually harsh. It kind of reminded me of my HFI-780s. I changed the tubes to the 6AS7Js and 6SJ7GTs. The difference was quite noticeable and the harshness disappeared. I am not good at describing the qualities of the sound I hear, all I can say is that I am totally amazed by the sound this amp produces. My wallet will hurt for quite a while, but I am really glad I made this purchase. I want to thank all those who posted impressions about this amp and tube options. I don't think I've ever been this excited about a purchase.


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alex1pdx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, my DV 337 arrived today. When I got home from school there was a missed delivery card in my mail box. There was no way I was going to wait until 5pm to pick up the parcel from the post office, so I started driving around the neighborhood looking for the mail truck. I found it after about five minutes of driving in the rain (gotta love Oregon). Now, two hours later, it is nice an sunny outside and I am in audio heaven! Initially I warmed up the amp with the default tubes. Until today I've been listening to my HD 650s through the Zero's internal amp, so the change wasn't subtle at all. Glorious music! However, pretty soon I noticed something I didn't like. Yes, everything was much more clear and defined, but I was shocked to realize that on some passages the 650 was actually harsh. It kind of reminded me of my HFI-780s. I changed the tubes to the 6AS7Js and 6SJ7GTs. The difference was quite noticeable and the harshness disappeared. I am not good at describing the qualities of the sound I hear, all I can say is that I am totally amazed by the sound this amp produces. My wallet will hurt for quite a while, but I am really glad I made this purchase. I want to thank all those who posted impressions about this amp and tube options. I don't think I've ever been this excited about a purchase._

 

So is it worth the price of the DV337 over the internal amp of the Zero?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish the DV337 wasn't that too expensive


----------



## alex1pdx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is it worth the price of the DV337 over the internal amp of the Zero?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish the DV337 wasn't that too expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I firmly believe that the vast sound improvement is just an auditory hallucination and it is due to the relatively high price I paid for this beast.


----------



## frank99

originally I was looking for Doge 6210 or Wooaudio 6 to be my first tube amp, to match my AKG K701 which I just bought. I listen to the female vocal most of time, after doing research on this forum, it seems these amps should give me the warm/sweet sound I am looking for. 

 However the microsoft cashback offer on ebay made me pull the trigger on dv337, a very good deal hard to resist. Too bad I couldn't find any doge/woo amps on ebay. I hope the dv337 won't make me disappointed. But it seems dv337 may not match the K701 very well as I only find a few people using these two on this forum.

 Any suggestion on what tubes I should try to make dv337 sweeter?

 Thanks!

 (btw., this is my 1st post on this forum after reading great posts on this forum for about a month. I am happy with my grado sr-80 without an amp for years, after reading this forum, I feel I want more... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *frank99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_originally I was looking for Doge 6210 or Wooaudio 6 to be my first tube amp, to match my AKG K701 which I just bought. I listen to the female vocal most of time, after doing research on this forum, it seems these amps should give me the warm/sweet sound I am looking for. 

 However the microsoft cashback offer on ebay made me pull the trigger on dv337, a very good deal hard to resist. Too bad I couldn't find any doge/woo amps on ebay. I hope the dv337 won't make me disappointed. But it seems dv337 may not match the K701 very well as I only find a few people using these two on this forum.

 Any suggestion on what tubes I should try to make dv337 sweeter?

 Thanks!

 (btw., this is my 1st post on this forum after reading great posts on this forum for about a month. I am happy with my grado sr-80 without an amp for years, after reading this forum, I feel I want more... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

Frank99,
 Congratulations on your first HF post! : )

 My experience with the DV337/K501 is not favorable--at least to my ears. With careful source-, cable- and tube-matching (I personally liked the JAN Sylvania VT-116A/Mullard 6080 combination the best), the K501 (which is actually harder to drive than the K701) can sound pretty good, but IMHO not their best, with the Darkvoice 337. Can't speak directly for the K701, only the K501 (and be advised: the K501 vis-a-vis K701 analogy may not carry over completely, or carry at all).

 The 336i may be a different story, though. I actually had very good synergy between the K701 and the Darkvoice 336i when I paired them. 

 Warm and sweet? That's something, IMHO, the DV337 never will, and perhaps never can, be with its 6SJ7 drivers. Powerful, detailed and well-ordered? Yes. Warm and sweet? No. With a 6SN7 driver, employed in the 336i but not compatible with the 337, you can get much closer to warm and sweet.

 The best synergy for me and the K701 came with the (hybrid) Bada PH-12. Ditto for the K501. IMHE, the Bada is a much, much better match for the K501, and quite possibly for the K701. (I never had the chance to a/b the DV337 and the PH-12 when I owned the K701; I've only heard the K701 matched with the Bada). The Bada PH-12 uses three (count 'em: 1, 2, 3!!) 6SN7s, which is why I decidedly prefer the more liquidy and lyrical Bada PH-12 to the more punctual and pragmatic DV337, especially for driving the K501.

 The main reason I have the DV337 up for sale is due to its poor synergy with the K501.

 Having recently found a pair of DT880/2003-250 ohm (one of favorite headphones of memory/prior ownership), I am looking forward to hearing them driven by the DV337. It would be nice to have a pair of open headphones to my liking that are also well-matched with the 337. It's painful to have the K501 within arm's reach, but with the Bada still away on mods. : )

 PAB


----------



## HeadLover

Doesn't anyone use it with the Grado GS1000?
 And what about the 337SE ?
 Anyone has it ??


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 Having recently found a pair of DT880/2003-250 ohm (one of favorite headphones of memory), I am looking forward to hearing them driven by the DV337. 
 

This is my reference setup

  Quote:


 Doesn't anyone use it with the Grado GS1000? 
 

32 ohms may be too low for the 337 to drive with authority. You can try using 6336A or 6528 tubes.

  Quote:


 And what about the 337SE ? 
 

The 337SE just has better components, none of the actual specs are different.


----------



## pataburd

I have had good success driving the Denon D2000/5000 with the DV337, but have felt, too, that something might be missing. The Denon can sound just a tad edgy wih the 337.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ RE: Darkvoice 337 with DT880/2003. "This is my reference setup."_

 

Thanks, Mazuki! I needed that! : )


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I have admitted to myself that the 337 simply does not do all that well with low impedance headphones (let's say below 40 ohms). So Grado and Denon headphones are not a great match, while Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, and *some* AKG headphones are. 

 I can't speak to the K501 or 701, but the 337 does a great job with the K340. I use these frequently with the 337 - very nice combination.

 The "warm and sweet" tube combo for the 337 would be Tung-Sol mesh-plate 6SJ7WGT's and RCA grey plate 6AS7G's. It's still not going to be a syrupy amp, but this will be the warmest tube combo IMO. I do prefer the 5998's even still, though - they are just beautiful sounding tubes.


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *frank99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_originally I was looking for Doge 6210 or Wooaudio 6 to be my first tube amp, to match my AKG K701 which I just bought. I listen to the female vocal most of time, after doing research on this forum, it seems these amps should give me the warm/sweet sound I am looking for. 

 However the microsoft cashback offer on ebay made me pull the trigger on dv337, a very good deal hard to resist. Too bad I couldn't find any doge/woo amps on ebay. I hope the dv337 won't make me disappointed. But it seems dv337 may not match the K701 very well as I only find a few people using these two on this forum.

 Any suggestion on what tubes I should try to make dv337 sweeter?

 Thanks!

 (btw., this is my 1st post on this forum after reading great posts on this forum for about a month. I am happy with my grado sr-80 without an amp for years, after reading this forum, I feel I want more... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )_

 


 I use the DV337 with 701 phones and I love this combo.
 The 337 has NO problem controlling the 701 and I have never gone to even 12:00 on the volume control.

 The soundstage is enormous the detail impressive and excellent dynamics and rythm.

 I don't think you will have any disappointment with the 337.

 Just tube roll till you find what you like best, that's part of the fun.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alex1pdx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, my DV 337 arrived today. When I got home from school there was a missed delivery card in my mail box. There was no way I was going to wait until 5pm to pick up the parcel from the post office, so I started driving around the neighborhood looking for the mail truck. I found it after about five minutes of driving in the rain (gotta love Oregon)._

 

Alex,
 I can totally relate to your account of chasing down the mailman! LOL! Enjoy the Darkvoice! : )
 PAB


----------



## alex1pdx

Thanks, Patrick. I still have to try out the red hots I got from you.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomjtx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the DV337 with 701 phones and I love this combo.
 The 337 has NO problem controlling the 701 and I have never gone to even 12:00 on the volume control.

 The soundstage is enormous the detail impressive and excellent dynamics and rythm.

 I don't think you will have any disappointment with the 337.

 Just tube roll till you find what you like best, that's part of the fun._

 

Tom,
 That's good to know. As I said, the K501--IMHO--are not a good, and are certainly not the best, match with the DV337. My hypothesis about the K701 following suit has been "destroyed," as Plato might say. : ) Although one may have argued that the excellent synergy between the DV336i and the K701 might translate to the DV337 as well. 

 IMM, it's the 6SJ7 vs. 6SN7 driver issue. Personally, I would rather have seen Darkvoice implement the 6SN7 into the 337. To me, the 336i is ultimately the more musical of the two amps precisely because of the 6SN7.

 Once the Bada returns from modding wonderland, I'll once again realize why I like the K501 so very, very much--and most likely even more! : )

 Admittedly, I am quite excited at the prospect of hearing the 337 drive the DT880/2003! (The Beyers may arrive as early as tomorrow!) I have often felt that the 337 did better with the HD600 than with either Denon, or (obviously) with the K501. It's been reported that the Darkvoice 336i was designed with Sennheisers in mind; the same might be true, at least in part, of the 337.

 PAB


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, there is a reason the 6SN7 is so popular in audio applications. It sounds good. Of course, this is also why some 6SN7 variants sell for $500/pair.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, there is a reason the 6SN7 is so popular in audio applications. It sounds good. Of course, this is also why some 6SN7 variants sell for $500/pair._

 

In that respect, then, I can understand why Darkvoice may have gone down the 6SJ7 path, i.e. to make the 337 available/affordable to a broader cross-section of potential users.

 Yes. NOS 6SN7s are getting less numerous and more expensive as we speak. Besides the Electro-Harmonix, the reissue/remanufacture of that Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB and the Shugang 6N8P there's not much else (new) on the horizon for the future.


----------



## Skylab

Right. The thing about the 6SJ7 is that it's used a lot in guitar amps, and it's very plentiful, and cheap. I don't think it's a bad sounding tube, actually - certain 6SJ7GT variants I really like the sound of in the 337, and these I paid sometimes as little as $5 each for, NOS.

 On the other hand, in my SP MPX3, I use $400 worth of 6SN7-type tubes...


----------



## pataburd

The best set of tubes I ever tried in the SP MPX3 were 1x Mullard CV-181 and 2x Sylvania 6SN7W (w/the nickel bases). I like the Valvo ECC33 and the Russian 1578s in the Bada.

 Besides the metal 6SJ7s, I don't find too much (on eBay) in glass envelopes other than the Philips 6SJ7WGT, an occasional Tung-Sol mesh plate 6SN7GT or VT-116A. What other variants are there (in glass)?


----------



## Skylab

There are 4 primary types of glass-envelope 6SJ7GT:

 1. Tall-bottle, smooth plate, tend to be 6SJ7WGT and/or VT-116A. I have Sylvania, Raytheon, and National Union brand of these.

 2. Short/Medium-bottle, ribbed-plate 6SJ7GT. I have Sylvania, Tung-Sol and RCA brands of these.

 3. Tall-bottle, ribbed-plate - this is the JAN-Phillips 6SJ7WGT - this tube is unique AFAIK.

 4. Tall-bottle, mesh-plate - I have Tung-Sol and RCA branded versions of this, but I am pretty sure only Tung-Sol made them in the USA. There are also Japanese versions of this type of tube. 

 My favorite is #4, followed by #1, then #3, then #4, but all are good, and all blow away the metal ones (except the RCA 5693). 

 >


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are 4 primary types of glass-envelope 6SJ7GT:

 1. Tall-bottle, smooth plate, tend to be 6SJ7WGT and/or VT-116A. I have Sylvania, Raytheon, and National Union brand of these.

 2. Short/Medium-bottle, ribbed-plate 6SJ7GT. I have Sylvania, Tung-Sol and RCA brands of these.

 3. Tall-bottle, ribbed-plate - this is the JAN-Phillips 6SJ7WGT - this tube is unique AFAIK.

 4. Tall-bottle, mesh-plate - I have Tung-Sol and RCA branded versions of this, but I am pretty sure only Tung-Sol made them in the USA. There are also Japanese versions of this type of tube. 

 My favorite is #4, followed by #1, then #3, then #4, but all are good, and all blow away the metal ones (except the RCA 5693). 

 >_

 

Thank you for the valuable information, Sky. : )


----------



## pataburd

Yesterday, the DT880/2003 arrived. These are some open headphones that I have owned before, been favorably impressed with, and have always wanted to get a second listen to. Next to the K501, they are perhaps my favorite (mid-fi) open headphones. 

 I plugged the Beyers into the 337, which was still tubed with JAN Sylvania VT-116As and GE 6080s.

 The first thing that struck me--and not subtly, either--was the overall sense of DRIVE exhibited by the Darkvoice when paired with the Beyers. Bass in particular sounded very solid, full-bodied/rounded and almost "formidable." Then I noticed this drive affecting everything else: vocals, trumpets, saxophones, drum hits, cymbals, massed strings, etc. Everything acquired a breadth, a pulse and a feeling of energy that had been missing by comparison with the D5000. 

 Paradoxically, despite this uniform and undeniable energy boost, the presentation also came across as smoother and more effortless. I found myself upping the volume a few clicks (using the digital volume control on the Oppo) but without losing that sense of ease/control. At higher volumes things sounded even more vibrant, but more "finished" as well.

 After plugging the D5000 back in, I did notice more detail resolution and refinement with the Denons, and maybe even more soundstage width, but things for the most part sounded flatter, a bit harder around the edges and strained/broken-up. Bass had no equivalent punch, sounding stifled/constrained compared to the DT880. Treble at raised volumes tended to sound sharper/harder around the edges. Vocals lacked warmth, depth and breathiness in their delivery. Everything in general sounded strained.

 Returning the DT880/2003 brought back the solidity, contour, texture and realism that I'd never experienced before with the Darkvoice. Ah! So THIS is what all those crazy 337 owners had been talking about!

 Well, this evening I finally joined their crazy ranks! : )

 Conclusion: Darkvoice 337 + DT880/2003 = totally winning combination.

 New dilemma: The D5000 require a different/more compatible amplifier. (The advice I'm getting is for solid state.) Hopefully, the modded Bada will fit the bill.


----------



## Skylab

Excellent, Patrick! Glad you enjoy that combination, and nice to know the rest of us aren't crazy


----------



## tomjtx

Does anyone have an extra pair of TS 5998 they want to sell?

 PM me if you do.

 BTW , Patrick, does this mean you aren't selling the DV337? 

 I am glad you found a good match, maybe I hould try out those phones.

 I love the 701s and the sen650 are too dark for my taste.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomjtx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW , Patrick, does this mean you aren't selling the DV337? _

 

Tom,
 Well, I'm not sure I can justify keeping the DV337 to effectively service only one set of headphones. 

 Ideally, the Bada--upon its belated return--will prove to be an excellent match for the DT880/2003 (as well as for the K501, already a known). If that were so, I then would sell the DV337 and use the proceeds to purchase a suitable amp for the D5000. You can bet that I sure would like to hear the D5000 driven to their full potential! : )

 Patrick


----------



## daleda@sbcglobal

I then would sell the DV337 and use the proceeds to purchase a suitable amp for the D5000. You can bet that I sure would like to hear the D5000 driven to their full potential! : )

 ...and that amp would be?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daleda@sbcglobal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I then would sell the DV337 and use the proceeds to purchase a suitable amp for the D5000. You can bet that I sure would like to hear the D5000 driven to their full potential! : )

 ...and that amp would be?_

 

The million dollar question ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## pataburd

The amp for the D5000? So far, I've had glowing recommendations for the Musical Fidelity X-CanV8 (GradoFan) and a Rudistor SS amp (Markl). I have a thread out soliciting advice for that amp as we speak.


----------



## frank99

My DV337 arrived today. There is only a very little damage on the tube cover, two of the banana plugs are crushed during the shipping. Overall it is in excellent condition. 
 I haven't order any tubes, just want to see if I like this amp or not. I am listening with the stock tubes now. Tomijx is right! The DV337 can easily drive my K701 very loudly. 9:00 is already too loud for me.
 Even with the stock tube, overall i think I like the sound!!! 
 The female vocal and violin sounds very good, quite close to the sound what I am looking for, although the base is definitely too weak,

 This weekend is going to be wonderful! Thanks everyone on this forum for all of the wonderful reviews and suggestions. Just a few weeks ago, I knew nothing about tubes. Now I start to enjoy it. What a change!

 Thanks again, everyone!


----------



## Tiff_Needle

Hi there,

 I've read this thread and you've all convince me regarding the amplifier stage.

 I'm a newbie on the head-fi league and I'm considering on aquiring a Darkvoice 337 to pair with DT880/2005 cans.

 What are your opinions on this combo, i.e., with the DT880 2005 model?

 Cheers,

 Tiff


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 What are your opinions on this combo, i.e., with the DT880 2005 model? 
 

Should be absolutely fantastic


----------



## pataburd

Ran the Darkvoice w/JAN Philips 6SJ7WGT and GE 6080. The D5000, though not optimal with the 337, still sound better than the DT880/2003 in several respects, especially detail resolution and separation, 3-dimensionality. While listening to a DVD (audio to a movie), the D5000 easily got the edge, too.

 The Bada PH-12 mods are done--thank God! I can't wait to try the D5000 w/the Bada. 

 These headphones sound so promising on a less-than-best-for amp like the Darkvoice; a suitably matched amp (hopefully the modded Bada) will deliver ALL the musical goods that the D5000 have to offer.


----------



## FloydCouncil

Guys, I ordered the 336SE from Casque. A family friend used his account to order the amp (I don't have a credit card) and ofcourse, he entered the my address for the delievery. The problem is, the Paypal receipt says my address is UNCONFIRMED and Casque's eBay page states that I must confirm my address.

 Will he still ship the amp to me in the UK?


----------



## alamakazam

guys, need your 337 help... can you check the rca ground and chassis ground is it shorted?


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alamakazam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys, need your 337 help... can you check the rca ground and chassis ground is it shorted?_

 

you got zapped?


----------



## alamakazam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you got zapped?_

 

nah, I have radio frequency interference, I could hear local radio station... is a big problem after I change to a sony monitor headphone.. too sensitive

 I suspect rca cables, cos when I unplug rca cables the interference disappear, I have tried pairs of cable, so I am not sure why...


----------



## spizm

Hey all,
 I'm selling my brand new 337. I don't really have room for it here. It's in flawless condition and only has about 40 hours on it. I'm willing to part with it for a good price. PM me if interested. Thanks.


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alamakazam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nah, I have radio frequency interference, I could hear local radio station... is a big problem after I change to a sony monitor headphone.. too sensitive

 I suspect rca cables, cos when I unplug rca cables the interference disappear, I have tried pairs of cable, so I am not sure why..._

 

I think someone has reported this previously in a previous post in this thread, he adjusted the direction of the RCA cables or something and it went away. Just to be sure you might wanna do a search for that particular post in this thread. good luck!


----------



## djork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spizm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all,
 I'm selling my brand new 337. I don't really have room for it here. It's in flawless condition and only has about 40 hours on it. I'm willing to part with it for a good price. PM me if interested. Thanks._

 

you should post this under the Buy/sell forum


----------



## alamakazam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think someone has reported this previously in a previous post in this thread, he adjusted the direction of the RCA cables or something and it went away. Just to be sure you might wanna do a search for that particular post in this thread. good luck!_

 

thanks, contacted the guy...

 open to more solutions!!


----------



## Alcibiades

I'm ready to buy the Darkvoice 337SE but before I do so, I was wondering if the tube recommendations for the regular 337 are compatible, namely the 6SJ7WGT and the 6AS7G. Any assistance on this would be appreciated greatly.


----------



## Skylab

The 337SE does not use the 6SJ7 as the driver tube - it uses the EF80. It does still use the 6AS7/5998/6080/7236 for power tubes.


----------



## Alcibiades

Thanks a lot. I just placed my order.


----------



## alamakazam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alamakazam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nah, I have radio frequency interference, I could hear local radio station... is a big problem after I change to a sony monitor headphone.. too sensitive

 I suspect rca cables, cos when I unplug rca cables the interference disappear, I have tried pairs of cable, so I am not sure why..._

 

still no luck with my problem, any help?


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alamakazam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_still no luck with my problem, any help?_

 

Blue Jeans Cable sells a cable that's suppose to help with RFI noise. Maybe that's what you need?


----------



## alamakazam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jellojoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Blue Jeans Cable sells a cable that's suppose to help with RFI noise. Maybe that's what you need?_

 

I saw their specs, I do have Belden 1694A which also have such problem

 unless the extra cable sleeve make a difference


----------



## frank99

My DV337 does not have such issue. Are you very close to a radio station tower? Maybe you can try to find a metal enclosure to form a RFI shield cage for your amp?


----------



## alamakazam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *frank99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My DV337 does not have such issue. Are you very close to a radio station tower? Maybe you can try to find a metal enclosure to form a RFI shield cage for your amp?_

 

omg!! I just realise it might just be the cause!! the tower is just about 2km away visibly


----------



## Tiff_Needle

Sorry for the little off-topic, but I would really like to know if anyone has had any kind of experience on buying the DV 337 true casque_hifi on eBay?

 In my case, since I'm in Europe, I've been told that it would be better to buy the DV 337 trough casque_hifi because of customs fee.

 Thank you for your help.

 Cheers,


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tiff_Needle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for the little off-topic, but I would really like to know if anyone has had any kind of experience on buying the DV 337 true casque_hifi on eBay?

 In my case, since I'm in Europe, I've been told that it would be better to buy the DV 337 trough casque_hifi because of customs fee.

 Thank you for your help.

 Cheers,_

 

Several have.

 If they don't see your post... you may want to search for Casque on the DV332, DV336, and DV337 threads. I think you'll find some comments... but... they were all positive as I recall. I don't recall any negative comments.


----------



## dunski

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Several have.

 If they don't see your post... you may want to search for Casque on the DV332, DV336, and DV337 threads. I think you'll find some comments... but... they were all positive as I recall. I don't recall any negative comments._

 


 I just had a really bad experience with casque hifi on ebay. My advice is to stay away from them! I ordered a 336se in 110v and they tried to tell me that the amp only comes in 220v with a transformer. The communication was TERRIBLE. 4-5 day delays between responses to my numerous emails. All in all they only replied twice to my many emails with one-line answers that made little sense.Thankfully I got them to return my money. Stay away from them!!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dunski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just had a really bad experience with casque hifi on ebay. My advice is to stay away from them! I ordered a 336se in 110v and they tried to tell me that the amp only comes in 220v with a transformer. The communication was TERRIBLE. 4-5 day delays between responses to my numerous emails. All in all they only replied twice to my many emails with one-line answers that made little sense.Thankfully I got them to return my money. Stay away from them!!_

 

Wow... that's terrible!

 And... they're also Audiophile China - so I guess that would rule out Audiophile China as well!

 I guess I'd contact Jasmine HiFi and see if they can get it for you - they used to sell them. And... as I recall they have a good reputation.

http://stores.ebay.com/Jasmine-Hifi-...dZ2QQpZ3QQtZkm


----------



## dunski

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow... that's terrible!

 And... they're also Audiophile China - so I guess that would rule out Audiophile China as well!

 I guess I'd contact Jasmine HiFi and see if they can get it for you - they used to sell them. And... as I recall they have a good reputation.

eBay Store - Jasmine Hifi Audio Store:_

 

Already a step ahead of you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I placed an order with Jasmine 10 seconds after I verified that the refund was in my PayPal. 

 I would not rule out AudiophileChina because they are the ones that actually helped me get the refund! I emailed them since casque is supposedly supported by them... I didn't get a response for a few days but once they responded they resolved the issue pretty quickly and I had my refund that same day. They also offered to place an order with them for the 110v version and they assured me it was in stock... but since their communication is pretty slow I decided to order with Jasmine. Jasmine assured me that they had what I needed and they responded to my email promptly.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dunski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Already a step ahead of you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I placed an order with Jasmine 10 seconds after I verified that the refund was in my PayPal. 

 I would not rule out AudiophileChina because they are the ones that actually helped me get the refund! I emailed them since casque is supposedly supported by them... I didn't get a response for a few days but once they responded they resolved the issue pretty quickly and I had my refund that same day. They also offered to place an order with them for the 110v version and they assured me it was in stock... but since their communication is pretty slow I decided to order with Jasmine. Jasmine assured me that they had what I needed and they responded to my email promptly._

 

Well... that's good to hear. Hopefully Audiophile China has much better customer service than their Casque HiFi division.


----------



## frank99

I believe Audiophile China and Casque HiFi are operated by the same people. My experience with them is ok, but not excellent. They ship fast, responded my email fast, but didn't help at all once the item was shipped out. The risk of buying products in china is that once the item shipped out, even within the warranty, it may not worth the cost to send back to china for a repair. especially the minor issues. I have banana plugs which hold the tube cover damaged during shipment, they refused to send me the replacement...


----------



## Nikita

Wow, this is really big amp !!


----------



## RickEC

Has anyone ever compared DV337 with other amps (e.g. Heed Canamp) for K701?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RickEC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone ever compared DV337 with other amps (e.g. Heed Canamp) for K701?_

 

Browse / Search through the DV337 threads - you'll find several comments about how the DV337 compares to other amps with phones, etc.

 The one comparing the DV337 to the Bada by Partaburd... and... some comments by Skylab, etc. Partaburd's comments are related to the K501, and HD600... I think.


----------



## Godkin

Has anyone tried Boyier when buying DARKVOICE. They should be reliable since they are run by DARKVOICE. They seem to be cheaper too. For instance, a 3322 is around £280 at Boyier (plus £50 delivery), while the likes of Jasmine and Hifi Casque are charging £325 (plus £50 delivery).

http://translate.google.co.uk/transl...%3Den%26sa%3DN


----------



## les_garten

It's interesting that they "hid" the little input tubes behind the output tubes. Is there an engineering reason for doing this? Or is it a screwup because they wanted to showcase the big glass up front?


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's interesting that they "hid" the little input tubes behind the output tubes. Is there an engineering reason for doing this? Or is it a screwup because they wanted to showcase the big glass up front?_

 

x2. I had the same complaint. Visually, it would look more appealing to me with the 6SJ7s in front of the 6AS7s. With 6080s, it looks downright ugly.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2. I had the same complaint. Visually, it would look more appealing to me with the 6SJ7s in front of the 6AS7s. With 6080s, it looks downright ugly._

 

Totally agree. My mesh-plate 6SJ7GT's look UBER cool - too bad you can;t see them


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RickEC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone ever compared DV337 with other amps (e.g. Heed Canamp) for K701?_

 

As Gradofan intimated, I did compare the Darkvoice 337 v. Bada PH-12, both in their stock configurations, with respect to the (120 ohm) K501. My verdict was that the Bada unquestionably drove the K501 better. I never heard the (62 ohm) K701 driven by the 337, but really enjoyed the Bada/K701 pairing. Others attest to an excellent synergy between the 337 and K701, though.

 Of the headphones I did get a chance to try with the Darkvoice 337 (including the SR-80, D2000, D5000, K501, DT880/2003, HD600 and HD650), the HD650 were by far the best served by the 337, with the DT880/2003 coming in at a close second. Everything else on my list, save the HD600, did not, IMHE, pair well with the DV337.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Totally agree. My mesh-plate 6SJ7GT's look UBER cool - too bad you can;t see them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

They do some interesting things. If you go to their webpage and look at the 337SE, the tube cage in their promotional phots is crooked. Ok, so that happened and it was not initially caught, but don't you think someone has mentioned this to them. Yet it's still there. Additionally looking at the photo, who could have missed that during proofing!

http://www.darkvoice.com.cn/

 Strange!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alcibiades* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a lot. I just placed my order._

 

Did you get the 337SE, I'm kinda wanting one of them also. Do tell what it is like when you get it! I am waiting for an Ebay December 10% Coupon!

 Here's my collection of SE pix, this shows the original SE and some spy photos from the new version. If you can open yours and shoot some pix of the wiring it would be greatly appreciated!

Da PIX!!


----------



## dunski

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
Da PIX!!_

 

Nice pics!!


----------



## les_garten

Hello,
 How do these amps set Bias current?


----------



## Skylab

They auto-bias - no need to set it.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They auto-bias - no need to set it._

 

Hello,
 Is there a regulator chip or something? I looked over the Pix and never saw a chip? How does it auto bias?


----------



## fhuang

anybody heard 337 with k340?


----------



## Skylab

Yep - sounds excellent.


----------



## fhuang

i just got k340 and i certainly need more juice from the darkvoice(i use beyer 600ohm phones usually) but, when i turn the volume to around "11 o'clock". that's some hiss. more noticeable when no music. maybe it's the stock tube i'm using?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just got k340 and i certainly need more juice from the darkvoice(i use beyer 600ohm phones usually) but, when i turn the volume to around "11 o'clock". that's some hiss. more noticeable when no music. maybe it's the stock tube i'm using?_

 

Hold on there Bobalou!!

 There ain't no way a DV 337 doesn't have the juice to weld with! It puts out 2 Watts! If you get near 11 to 12:00 with mine, you risk deafness in short order. I have no hiss with my 337SE. I do have some transformer HUM up around 12:00.

 It is not unusual for a Tube Amp to have some "Tube Rush" at high outputs.

 You should asess your tubes though because I have not heard any Hiss or Tube Rush on mine.


 .


----------



## Skylab

I get no hiss with the DV337 and the K340. You really should replace the stock tubes regardless


----------



## fhuang

i don't mean hiss hiss. not like ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz, just tiny sssssss. i know i need to change the tubes. but i always got something to get before tube. by the way it's k340 400 ohm or 800 ohm? it said 400ohm x2 from right side. they sure need more juice from my darkvoice then my 600 ohm beyers and 250 ohm senns, i only use those beyers and senns at around "9 o'clock".


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i don't mean hiss hiss. not like ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz, just tiny sssssss. i know i need to change the tubes. but i always got something to get before tube. by the way it's k340 400 ohm or 800 ohm? it said 400ohm x2 from right side. they sure need more juice from my darkvoice then my 600 ohm beyers and 250 ohm senns, i only use those beyers and senns at around "9 o'clock"._

 

You can look the specs up or check with a DMM the Impedance of the drivers.


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can look the specs up or check with a DMM the Impedance of the drivers._

 

ever heard of a k340 yourself?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ever heard of a k340 yourself?_

 

What's your Point?


 .


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's your Point?


 ._

 


 my point is, i use my ears to listen to headphones. i don't read headphones. plus, k340 is a 20 plus year old headphones. i doubt you can get too much numbers about it. besides, most reviews here(from search) about k340 didn't use 337 at all. and did i mention i listen to headphones, don't read my phones.


----------



## frank99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i don't mean hiss hiss. not like ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz, just tiny sssssss._

 

Actually I got the same tiny "sssss" background noise too, it depends on the tube I used, the stock tubes are the quietest, starting at 1:00 o'clock. Some tubes starts at 9:00 o'clock.

 So what I did now is to adjust the signal volume that feeds into the DV337 so that the volume control of my DV337 was fixed at 8:00 o'clock.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my point is, i use my ears to listen to headphones. i don't read headphones. plus, k340 is a 20 plus year old headphones. i doubt you can get too much numbers about it. besides, most reviews here(from search) about k340 didn't use 337 at all. and did i mention i listen to headphones, don't read my phones._

 

You asked how may Ohms your Headphones were? I said get a Volt OHM meter, Get it!!


----------



## Tiff_Needle

Hi...

 I would like to inform that I'm proudly an owner of a Darkvoice 337, for about a month now!! (I must ad that I've bought it trough Jasmine! Highly recommended seller by the way)

 I have to confess, I'm really impressed with it's sound. I wasn't expecting such an Hi-def sound from my headphone (DT880).

 Both my phones and amp are new and have only about 20 hours of listening and my DV337 is working with stock tubes. By the way, the amp is dead quiet... no hisses or hums or anything else.

 But I must confess that I was surprised with the sound quality of my new little rig. I'm used to ear a Proac 2.5 + Conrad-Johnson combo and I must honestly say... GREAT AMP!!!

 Witch tubes would you recommend as replacement. (I love a sound between lush sound and fast dynamics without losing any of the sound stage, like the CJ)

 I'm thinking on getting some o-rings for the tubes and change the amps feet to a sorbo gel feet type.

 Are there any feet that you would also recommend?

 Once again I would like to thank you all for creating this post, since if it wasn't for all your post I've wouldn't know the existence of such a Head-Phone amp and Headphones, and would be still having the problem of listening to great music with hi-fi standards at home at night without bothering my neighbors.

 Thank You!


----------



## Skylab

Congrats on your 337! I still love mine and use it every day. Definitely try to get some Tung-Sol 5998's for the power (front/big) tubes and some Tung-Sol mesh-plate 6SJ7GT's for the driver (rear/small) tubes.

 And just as a reminder to everyone, NOS 6SJ7's take almost a full 24 hours to become hum-free. I was reminded of this last week as I burned-in a new set of the aforementioned TS mesh-plates - I had to run them for 3 days of 10 hours/day before they were totally silent. The first day they buzz really loudly all day. Then over the next 2 days they get progressively quieter. Now they are silent. This is just how they are!


----------



## pataburd

DT880/2003 and Darkvoice 337 are a great combination. Get some RCA 6AS7G blackplates and some JAN-Sylvania 6SJ7s and the Beyers will sound even better!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tiff_Needle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi...

 I would like to inform that I'm proudly an owner of a Darkvoice 337, for about a month now!!

 I have to confess, I'm really impressed with it's sound. I wasn't expecting such an Hi-def sound from my headphone (DT880).

 Both my phones and amp are new and have only about 20 hours of listening and my DV337 is working with stock tubes. By the way, the amp is dead quiet... no hisses or hums or anything else.

 But i must confess that I was suprised with the sound quality of my new little rig. I'm used to ear my Hi-Fi setup (Proac 2.5 + Conrad-Johnson) and I must honestly say... GREAT AMP!!!

 Wish tubes would you recommend as replacement. (I love a sound between lush sound and fast dynamics without lossing any of the soundstage, like my CJ)

 I'm thinking on getting some o-rings for the tubes and change the amps feet to a sorbo gel feet type.

 Are there any feet that you would also recommend?

 Once again I would like to thank you all for creating this post, since if it woesn't for all your post I've wouldn't know the existence of such a Head-Phone amp and Headphones, and would be still having the problem of listening to great music with hi-fi standards at home at night without bothering my neibours. 

 Thank You!_

 

I have a 337SE and I get some transformer HUM with the Vol controls up around 12:00, how about you guys?

 TS 5998's, great tubes!!


 .


----------



## Skylab

No, my 337 does not hum.


----------



## Tiff_Needle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats on your 337! I still love mine and use it every day. Definitely try to get some Tung-Sol 5998's for the power (front/big) tubes and some Tung-Sol mesh-plate 6SJ7GT's for the driver (rear/small) tubes.

 And just as a reminder to everyone, NOS 6SJ7's take almost a full 24 hours to become hum-free. I was reminded of this last week as I burned-in a new set of the aforementioned TS mesh-plates - I had to run them for 3 days of 10 hours/day before they were totally silent. The first day they buzz really loudly all day. Then over the next 2 days they get progressively quieter. Now they are silent. This is just how they are!_

 

Thank You for your input! I'll try them on my DV337.

 I've noticed on one of your photos of the DV337, that you have replaced the amplifiers feet. Do you have any recommendations?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DT880/2003 and Darkvoice 337 are a great combination. Get some RCA 6AS7G blackplates and some JAN-Sylvania 6SJ7s and the Beyers will sound even better!_

 

Unfortunately my DT880 are not the 2003 model! I've been told that the 03 model is more neutral than the 05 model. But hey... They sound great with the DV337. I found the 2005 model+dv337 to have the High Frequencies a little overemphasized. Maybe with a little more burning...

 I'll try to replaced my tubes by those recomended by SkyLab. As soon as I get them I'll post my opinion on them.

 Cheers,

 Tiff


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tiff_Needle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've noticed on one of your photos of the DV337, that you have replaced the amplifiers feet. Do you have any recommendations?

_

 

I use a very high-tech device - a hockey puck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Yes, actual hockey pucks. They are very effective at vibration control, they look nice, and they are very cheap.


----------



## Skylab

Also, the 2005 DT880's are much better than the 03 versions, IMO.


----------



## Tiff_Needle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use a very high-tech device - a hockey puck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, actual hockey pucks. They are very effective at vibration control, they look nice, and they are very cheap._

 






LoL
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well maybe for you it's cheaper in the US, but since I'm in Portugal and they aren't huge fans of hockey I think maybe it would be more expensive... hehe

 I'm going to Canada this summer so... I'll look into hockey pucks hehe


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tiff_Needle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





LoL
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well maybe for you it's cheaper in the US, but since I'm in Portugal and they aren't huge fans of hockey I think maybe it would be more expensive... hehe

 I'm going to Canada this summer so... I'll look into hockey pucks hehe_

 

Here's what you want to find:












 I have a set of these I bought 30 years ago and they are awesome. They are Sorbothane and are 3" in diameter.

 My opinion, Hockey Pucks are too hard to act as vibration traps, but to each his own.

 .


----------



## frank99

I found a customized DV337 made by darkvoice on the following web site. It basically a DV337SE plus using better quality components, cables, and increasing the coupling capacitors from 51uF to 100uF. It was reported that the bass was improved a lot.

 Just want to share this info with other DV337 owners. And I would like to know whether the output coupling capacitors are the bigger the better, is there any side effects on that? 


the DV337 customized link (many pictures)


----------



## les_garten

Here's a pic of my 337SE for reference.
 >>
 >>





 .


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tiff_Needle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





LoL
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well maybe for you it's cheaper in the US, but since I'm in Portugal and they aren't huge fans of hockey I think maybe it would be more expensive... hehe

 I'm going to Canada this summer so... I'll look into hockey pucks hehe_

 

besides pucks, anybody using any rubber feet, stand or any other thing for the amp? really, any difference without extra feet? i should upgrade my cable first? right now i'm using ps audio punch.


----------



## ChrisHopcroft

So, I just bought a pair of Senn HD650s and a Darkvoice 337. Only around 20 hours of burn in so far, but oh my goodness ... amazing!


----------



## wasp131

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ChrisHopcroft* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I just bought a pair of Senn HD650s and a Darkvoice 337. Only around 20 hours of burn in so far, but oh my goodness ... amazing!_

 

that's what i thought when i first got mine about a month ago,
 after around 70hrs it gets even better


----------



## ChrisHopcroft

I'll look forward to that.


----------



## ChrisHopcroft

it keeps getting better.


----------



## les_garten

Defintely a sweet amp!


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ChrisHopcroft* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I just bought a pair of Senn HD650s and a Darkvoice 337. Only around 20 hours of burn in so far, but oh my goodness ... amazing!_

 

Good choice,they make a great pairing.Just wait till you get a few hundred hours on headphone and amp and you will be really pleased


----------



## les_garten

My Grados love this amp as well.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Just bought a pair of modded AKG K340,looking forward to hearing them with my 337se.


----------



## Bigjppop

I haven't listened to my 337/HD650 rig in a while, been trying to DIY a SET speaker setup, but I fired it up last late for a bit and I'll tell you... it really is awesome. I've tried my share of amps/cans and I keep coming back to the DV and Senns. None of my purchases have stayed with me this long and brought me this much pleasure. Now all I need is my speaker rig to do it for me like my headphone rig.

 Oh yes, I give a strong amen to Skylab's tube recs on the last page. I've rolled quite a few tubes into this amp and the Tung-sol setup is as good as it gets (to my ears). The best part is, you won't have to sell your soul to get some!


----------



## fhuang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Grados love this amp as well._

 

yea suppose the darkvoice "only" sound good with low impedance phones(my experience was most akgs and some ultrasone) but i also find them sound more than ok with my hf2.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yea suppose the darkvoice "only" sound good with low impedance phones(my experience was most akgs and some ultrasone) but i also find them sound more than ok with my hf2._

 

Not sure what you're saying here. I have heard it with HD650s and it did very well with those as well.


----------



## kds5000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure what you're saying here. I have heard it with HD650s and it did very well with those as well._

 

x2

 My DV337 drives all my cans beautifully (see my sig). I feel it's one of those fantastic value for money amps that can genuinely drive cans from 32 ohms to 600 ohms well. If you've lots of cans with different impedance ratings and you only have a budget for just 1 amp - I'd say look no further...


----------



## Skylab

It's actually more of a surprise that it works as well as it does with LOW impedance headphones. An amp with a high-ish output impedance like the 337 is generally better with HIGH impedance headphones. I use it with 600 ohm Beyers, which is a great match. But the 337 is a serious beast of an amp, and it does seem to be able to deliver the good into lower impedances as well.

 Several years later, I still use mine every day - the 337 is a terrific amp.


----------



## kds5000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Several years later, I still use mine every day - the 337 is a terrific amp._

 

Your fondness for the 337 is actually one of the main reasons I bought mine... and I'm glad to say that mine will also be with me for many years to come 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, having gotten used to the dual volume controls, I'm not quite as comfortable listening to an amp with only one volume control - the dual volume control enables me to get the imaging just right (to my ears at least) no matter what cans or music I'm playing...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kds5000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, having gotten used to the dual volume controls, I'm not quite as comfortable listening to an amp with only one volume control - the dual volume control enables me to get the imaging just right (to my ears at least) no matter what cans or music I'm playing...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is an overlooked advantage of the 337. I wish more headphone amps had balance controls.


----------



## leothan

Anyone try 6SN7 on the 337 ? BC after I sold the 336,still got quite alot of 6SN7


----------



## Skylab

You mean using the 6SN7 in place of the 6AS7? That would for sure result in much less power. I have head that it works fine, but never tried it.

 Just to be very clear, you CANNOT use the 6SN7 in place of the 6SJ7. That would cause very, very bad things to happen. The 6SN7 is a dual-triode; the 6SJ7 is a sharp-cutoff pentode. They are completely different tubes.

 Both the 6AS7 and 6SN7 are dual-triodes, and they have the same pin configuration. The 6AS7 just draws a lot more current, and produces a lot more power.


----------



## deltaspirit

I'm really not sure if I should get one of these or the upcoming LA FIGARO 332S, which is a upgraded darkvoice 3322.


----------



## leothan

@Skylab thank for ur reply ,anw is ur 337 modded ?


----------



## Godkin

DARKVOICE - or as thay are now LA FIGARO - are to stop production of the 337. Apparently, its lack of synergy with low impedance headphones was the final "nail in the coffin." But fear not, they are in the design stages of a new amp, the LA FIGARO 337, which will go on sale in the new year.

 This message was posted by LA FIGARO on the 3322 thread today:

 "When I heard the news the Japanese government prohibited the cutting of cherry wood, I immediately go to buy a W1000 headphones.As the anniversary of the end of the the Tieshan corner cherry wood .

 After I take it home and test it with 337se,I found that there is defects that 337se is for high sensitivity,low-impedance headphones.Thus I improved 337se ,but the result is not ideal.Undoubtedly it is the structure of 337se lead to that 337se push low-impedance isn't ideal.

 We designed lafigaro337 early.But it brought me trouble last test .So I decide not to produce 337.And there is Darkvoice337 in the market now.
 We will specifically design a new amp for low-impedance headphones .And we will produce it next year.Its name will not be lafigaro337,and the appearance of it will not look like 337."


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leothan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Skylab thank for ur reply ,anw is ur 337 modded ?_

 

No - it's stock.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DARKVOICE - Apparently, its lack of synergy with low impedance headphones was the final "nail in the coffin."_

 

Yeah - that was an issue. With high impedance cans, it's terrific. With low impedance cans, it was more problematic. I loved it with 600 ohm Beyers, but it was not a great match for my 70 ohm JVC DX1000 - there was a little hum.


----------



## Mambosenior

What's wrong with "pandering" to the many of us who don't own, or want, low-impedance headphones?

 I do hope the DV337 is not discontinued.


----------



## les_garten

I guess there is no way to "easily" mod the 337 to hum less with Low Impedance canz? I've noticed this and commented that mine hummed a little. Didn't know it was related to using low ohm canz. ALL my Dynamics are low impedance.


----------



## Skylab

At least that I know of, no - this is one reason I modded my Deep-cup Darth Beyers by changing the drivers to the 600 ohm ones (which sound better anyway).


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At least that I know of, no - this is one reason I modded my Deep-cup Darth Beyers by changing the drivers to the 600 ohm ones (which sound better anyway)._

 

I wonder if making an impedance adapter would muck up the sound? And more importantly, if it would help with the hum.


----------



## fhuang

Skylab, how was the t1 with 337?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if making an impedance adapter would muck up the sound? And more importantly, if it would help with the hum._

 

I tried adding a 200 ohm resister to the JVC's, and that did reduce the hum somewhat, but it did not eliminate it, and it was probably the reduced sensitivity that the resister brought that reduced it somewhat, because such a resister increases the output impedance of the amp in addition to increasing the resistance load that the amp "sees". 

 I DO have a transformer-based impedance adapter from Audiotailor - and this did the trick very well - it uses a transformer to match the impedance better. This is easy, and works great, but does cost about $120.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, how was the t1 with 337?_

 

Haven't tried that combo as yet, but the 337 was great with all my other 600 ohm Beyers, so I would think it would be good with the T1.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I DO have a transformer-based impedance adapter from Audiotailor - and this did the trick very well - it uses a transformer to match the impedance better. This is easy, and works great, but does cost about $120._

 

I looked and can't find that adapter, do you have a link for it? I like the 337 despite the Hum which is not audible for me in normal listening ranges. I have to have no input and turn the vol way up to hear it. Practically speaking it's not an issue, but I would like to take a gander at that adapter.


----------



## Skylab

I actually just posted some pics on it here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6245035-post760.html

 It's not on Audiotailor's website, though, so you have to PM or email HZ_joe about it.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually just posted some pics on it here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6245035-post760.html

 It's not on Audiotailor's website, though, so you have to PM or email HZ_joe about it._

 

Thanx, kinda adds an Output Transformer to an Output Transformerless AMP!


----------



## Skylab

Yup, it's a handy little doo-dad that definitely serves the purpose of lowering the output impedance from the perspective of the headphone, in a way that doesn't color things up.


----------



## leothan

Hi ,I got some problem with the noise,Bc I moved my amp to beside my table ,and the ground noise appears,however when I put my hand behind the rca plug without touching them ,the nose disappear ,I also tried to connect the ground of rca to the case but it does not help anything


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leothan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi ,I got some problem with the noise,Bc I moved my amp to beside my table ,and the ground noise appears,however when I put my hand behind the rca plug without touching them ,the nose disappear ,I also tried to connect the ground of rca to the case but it does not help anything_

 

Maybe try a better RCA cable? MOAR SHIELDING! Any CRTs near? Any other Electronics? Make sure the power cables are away from your input Interconnects, etc.


----------



## leothan

But I dont have this problem bf,just happened when I move the amp to the other side of the table 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ,also dont have any electronics around there


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leothan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But I dont have this problem bf,just happened when I move the amp to the other side of the table 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ,also dont have any electronics around there_

 

Tubes still "seated" well?


----------



## leothan

yeb ,


----------



## les_garten

Well you're picking up something. That amp in my experience is sensitive to RFI. I had to replace ICs on it to make sure they were well shielded. RFI is obviously different where it sits now. Also, rewiring some of that beautiful Point to Pont hardwire I'm sure would make it better. The inside of the box is kinda a huge antenna array! I do like the looks of it though!


----------



## gordonshowers

Hello everyone!

 It's taken a while, but I've finally trawled through most of this interesting thread and I think I'm going to go for a 337.

 I have two questions:

 1) Will it be a good match for HD600s? [The comments seem to suggest "yes", but a couple of specific opinions would be great]

 2) I'm going to be playing uncompressed files from a laptop. What would be a good DAC? It must have a USB input because I have no digital output. [My current favourite is the MF V-DAC, but I haven't heard it myself]

 Many thanks for your opinions
 Gord


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gordonshowers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello everyone!

 It's taken a while, but I've finally trawled through most of this interesting thread and I think I'm going to go for a 337.

 I have two questions:

 1) Will it be a good match for HD600s? [The comments seem to suggest "yes", but a couple of specific opinions would be great]

 2) I'm going to be playing uncompressed files from a laptop. What would be a good DAC? It must have a USB input because I have no digital output. [My current favourite is the MF V-DAC, but I haven't heard it myself]

 Many thanks for your opinions
 Gord_

 

My HD650s were awesome with it. I'm feeding it with a Audio-GD REF 1 DAC and it is a killer combo. It also worked well with The A-GD Compass DAC.


----------



## gordonshowers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My HD650s were awesome with it. I'm feeding it with a Audio-GD REF 1 DAC and it is a killer combo. It also worked well with The A-GD Compass DAC._

 

Thanks for your reply, that was quick!! I won't get a chance to listen first, so all opinions are really useful to me, and it's enough money to want to be as sure as I can before purchase.

 The REF 1 is way beyond my budget! Did you run the Compass in "DAC-only" mode then into the 337?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gordonshowers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your reply, that was quick!! I won't get a chance to listen first, so all opinions are really useful to me, and it's enough money to want to be as sure as I can before purchase.

 The REF 1 is way beyond my budget! Did you run the Compass in "DAC-only" mode then into the 337?_

 

Yes I did. The Compass is a VERY good value for $280. It's still a deal at quite a bit more. I'm raising $$$ for some projects right now and am trying to keep my Compass, it's just so versatile and a nicely executed piece of gear.


----------



## gordonshowers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I did. The Compass is a VERY good value for $280. It's still a deal at quite a bit more. I'm raising $$$ for some projects right now and am trying to keep my Compass, it's just so versatile and a nicely executed piece of gear._

 

Thanks very much for your views.

 Time to get ordering


----------



## leothan

Thank les_garten ,my problem solved when I changed the power distributor ,think something wrong with the old one ,
 anw ,I intend to buy the OPOCC 14WG pure copper cable to rewire the 337 amp ,I am not sure it will improve the sound ? any ideas about it ?
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well you're picking up something. That amp in my experience is sensitive to RFI. I had to replace ICs on it to make sure they were well shielded. RFI is obviously different where it sits now. Also, rewiring some of that beautiful Point to Pont hardwire I'm sure would make it better. The inside of the box is kinda a huge antenna array! I do like the looks of it though!_


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leothan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank les_garten ,my problem solved when I changed the power distributor ,think something wrong with the old one ,
 anw ,I intend to buy the OPOCC 14WG pure copper cable to rewire the 337 amp ,I am not sure it will improve the sound ? any ideas about it ?_

 

I had some other folks look at it. The tube heaters are AC and untwisted. If you rewired just the heater circuit that may get rid of any background hum. Part of me wants to do that, part of me doesn't want to fark with that beautiful P-P wiring job that was done by an artist. 

 If I look at the portion of the Vol control where I listen at MAX loud levels, there is no HUM there. The HUM comes around 12:00 with no input. I listen LOUD at 9-9:30. But the back of my mind wonders if clearing up the HUM will make it sound even better. 

 Do you get any hum on yours up high?


----------



## leothan

I never turn the volume nob over 9h ,to loud for me ,usually around 8 ,and I also got hum but very little ,must listen very carefully without the music 
 anw ,one of my friend recommend to replace the two big output caps with 10 smaller caps(each side) ,really want to try when I have the chance


----------



## FOXY

How 337 and 336 work as preamplifier?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FOXY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How 337 and 336 work as preamplifier?_

 

337 has Pre-amp outputs


----------



## gordonshowers

Please be aware that the 337 I received last month does *NOT* have pre-amp outs.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gordonshowers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please be aware that the 337 I received last month does *NOT* have pre-amp outs._

 

Can you post a pic of the back? There is only one set of RCA's on the back?


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gordonshowers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please be aware that the 337 I received last month does *NOT* have pre-amp outs._

 

You have the latest version.


----------



## wasp131

i seen a pic recently of the newer model (maybe the last ?).
 it did have just the two connectors on the back.

 i have the 2009 version it came without the tube cage (although fittings are still there).
 internally it looks like the se model (without the changed tube ).
 are any two of these amps identical ?,there seem to be quite a few variations.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wasp131* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i seen a pic recently of the newer model (maybe the last ?).
 it did have just the two connectors on the back.

 i have the 2009 version it came without the tube cage (although fittings are still there).
 internally it looks like the se model (without the changed tube ).
 are any two of these amps identical ?,there seem to be quite a few variations._

 

Heh, they've been going thru a lot of changes there. The tube cage is worthless, no loss there, unless you use tubes like the 6080's because the cage won't fit. I've never used the pre-amp outs, so no feedback there.


----------



## Skylab

I agree - the only thing the tube cage ever did for me was scratch the paint on my 337 when it shipped to me, since it came loose in transport. I never used it otherwise. They should have skipped it.


----------



## wasp131

I heard they stopped supplying the cage due to the damage it was inflicting on the amps finish during transit.looked hideous anyway.
 i use mullard 6080's but i doubt i would ever use it.


----------



## gordonshowers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you post a pic of the back? There is only one set of RCA's on the back?_

 

Sure. Yes, there is only one set of RCAs:






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alvin sawdust* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have the latest version._

 

That's right, I think they removed the pre-outs half-way through 2009.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wasp131* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I heard they stopped supplying the cage due to the damage it was inflicting on the amps finish during transit.looked hideous anyway.
 i use mullard 6080's but i doubt i would ever use it._

 

Strange, I ordered and received mine in December 2009 and it came with the tube cage. Needless to say, it was removed immediately after unpacking and will never go back on!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gordonshowers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure. Yes, there is only one set of RCAs:






 That's right, I think they removed the pre-outs half-way through 2009.


 Strange, I ordered and received mine in December 2009 and it came with the tube cage. Needless to say, it was removed immediately after unpacking and will never go back on!_

 

Hi,
 Thanx for the pic. I may convert mine to loop outs.


----------



## wasp131

i got mine mid September 09,i didnt get a cage but i have four rca's on the back.


----------



## dBs

I'm looking at buying a 337 (not SE) on Friday. I wish it had a bit more of a "tubey" sound to it--as from what I've read it's pretty neutral sounding--but I suspect I will be able to find some good tubes that will give it a bit more of the flavor I'm looking for. I will be pairing it with 650s and 770s (250ohm) so there should be no impedance problems. At the very least, I figure that this will be a very good amp to judge the success of the amp that I am in the process of designing.

 I will probably be making some posts in the next few days/weeks regarding that design. In the mean time though, this amp will need some "tubey" tubes =D


----------



## Skylab

Well, I would start they with RCA 6AS7G's. As far as 6AS7's go, they are pretty tubey.


----------



## dBs

That sounds good. I'll look into those while I wait for the 337 to arrive. I'm getting excited, for the amp, but more so that I think I am getting really close now to knowing enough to start consulting the forums here for what they want to see in a DIY amp project.


----------



## LaurentZhang

You can order it on Darkvoice website now: Darkvoice tube headphone amplifier amp China.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaurentZhang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can order it on Darkvoice website now: Darkvoice tube headphone amplifier amp China._

 

1st Post!

 Welcome!

 Do you have any changes to the 337 or 337SE to announce? I thought you had dropped the Pre-amp outputs, but I still see the pre-amp outputs in the pix on your website?


----------



## wasp131

I thought the se model used a different tube from the std 337,the site says they run the same.


----------



## Skylab

I believe they made a cut-and-paste mistake on that site, unless they have made a change. The 337SE was using the 6BX6/EF80 for driver tubes instead of the 337's 6SJ7. Electrically those tubes are basically the same, but the 6SJ7 is octal-base, and the 6BX6 noval.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe they made a cut-and-paste mistake on that site, unless they have made a change. The 337SE was using the 6BX6/EF80 for driver tubes instead of the 337's 6SJ7. Electrically those tubes are basically the same, but the 6SJ7 is octal-base, and the 6BX6 noval._

 

What he said ^^^^^

 The SE may have less tube rolling opportunities than the Std model

 If that's your thing...


----------



## dBs

Well I have some Tung Sol 6SJ7GT mesh plates and RCA 6AS7G's coming in. Hopefully my 337 will be shipping tomorrow or Monday (in China time). It's all coming together. "eeeeeexcellent!"


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have some Tung Sol 6SJ7GT mesh plates and RCA 6AS7G's coming in. Hopefully my 337 will be shipping tomorrow or Monday (in China time). It's all coming together. "eeeeeexcellent!"_

 

Can you post some internal and external pix when you get it?


----------



## dBs

No problem. I was planning on doing that anyway =D


----------



## dBs

Just got the 337 in along with the RCA 6AS7G tubes. This is exactly the kind of sound I've wanted, wow. I would say that I am a tube convert XD. There are some intermittent pops that seem to be going on that are pretty distracting. I have isolated out my computer as the problem and I am confident my Compass isn't as I have been listening to that for a long time without this issue. It's something to do with the 337, possibly the tubes (hopefully the tubes since that's an easier fix). Maybe it's a common affliction that is due to a new analog amplifier product needing to be broken in? I also was forced to get a bit ghetto with the power plugs so that could also be a cause of the problem.

 Despite the pops, it sounds incredible. Emphasis in the areas I've always wanted it, perfect. I'm still running the Chinese 6J8Ps and it hasn't burned in yet, so I suspect it will only get better from here. Especially once the pops are taken care of.

 I'm listening to a brand new musical infatuation for me--Aurosonic - Always Together album--and it sounds amazing. The album uses a lot of piano and female vocals and it really makes the two sound amazing.

 I gotta get back to work XD I will be wishing I was home all day though listening to this. In the mean time it will be burning in!

 BTW, I looked at the internals and it is using the newer 2009 variant (whole row of green capacitors towards the front). No preamp.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got the 337 in along with the RCA 6AS7G tubes. This is exactly the kind of sound I've wanted, wow. I would say that I am a tube convert XD. There are some intermittent pops that seem to be going on that are pretty distracting. I have isolated out my computer as the problem and I am confident my Compass isn't as I have been listening to that for a long time without this issue. It's something to do with the 337, possibly the tubes (hopefully the tubes since that's an easier fix). Maybe it's a common affliction that is due to a new analog amplifier product needing to be broken in? I also was forced to get a bit ghetto with the power plugs so that could also be a cause of the problem.

 Despite the pops, it sounds incredible. Emphasis in the areas I've always wanted it, perfect. I'm still running the Chinese 6J8Ps and it hasn't burned in yet, so I suspect it will only get better from here. Especially once the pops are taken care of.

 I'm listening to a brand new musical infatuation for me--Aurosonic - Always Together album--and it sounds amazing. The album uses a lot of piano and female vocals and it really makes the two sound amazing.

 I gotta get back to work XD I will be wishing I was home all day though listening to this. In the mean time it will be burning in!

 BTW, I looked at the internals and it is using the newer 2009 variant (whole row of green capacitors towards the front). No preamp._

 

It shouldn't be popping. The RCAs will sound very nice and smooth. 

 I would get the cheap tubes outta there for sure. A shorted tube can take your amp out.


----------



## dBs

Ok, I isolated each channel on the 337. As it is dual mono from PSU to output jack the pops should only be on one channel. They weren't, the pops were in both channels. That means it isn't the 337. I also changed the 6N5P tubes back to the Chinese ones and the pops were still there.

 The problem is outside of the 337. I put in the Earth HDAM into my Compass today (have been using the Moon for many months now) so maybe that is the problem. I will have a listen from my compass directly and see if the pops are there.

 Yep, sure enough, pops out of the compass directly. Man those pops sounded soooo good on that 337, hahaha. Amazing what the 337 can do just with pops! Means its either my computer (foobar2000) or the HDAM.


----------



## gbacic

I wonder if yuking will redo the 337 for La Figaro and release it as a competitor against the LD MK VI / MK VIII.

 A balanced darkvoice would be amazing


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I isolated each channel on the 337. As it is dual mono from PSU to output jack the pops should only be on one channel. They weren't, the pops were in both channels. That means it isn't the 337. I also changed the 6N5P tubes back to the Chinese ones and the pops were still there.

 The problem is outside of the 337. I put in the Earth HDAM into my Compass today (have been using the Moon for many months now) so maybe that is the problem. I will have a listen from my compass directly and see if the pops are there.

 Yep, sure enough, pops out of the compass directly. Man those pops sounded soooo good on that 337, hahaha. Amazing what the 337 can do just with pops! Means its either my computer (foobar2000) or the HDAM._

 

Well, who would want to listen to poorly resolved Pops!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

dbs what source are you using (SC or on board audio of the mobo ?). Three things come to mind, the pins on the NOS tubes may need cleaning, the Earth HDAM may not be fully seated (or making poor contact in the DIP8 socket) or the SC/media player buffering/cpu load on the USB bus may be producing this noise. How many USB devices do you have on this computer ?

 Of the 3 mentioned I willing to bet it's the computer. What software player and driver are you using ? What connection to the Compass are you using (from the source) ? 

 Can you use another digital input on the Compass to narrow down the possibilities please. A stand alone CDP would rule out the DAC and the 337 fairly quickly if you can get a hold of one (and a COAX digital cable) if it plays cleanly of course with the stand alone CDP.

 What operating system are you using, how much ram do you have installed and what CPU are you running ?

 Peete.


----------



## wasp131

I expect it will look like this ,obviously, without the rca outputs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad you are enjoying it


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gbacic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if yuking will redo the 337 for La Figaro and release it as a competitor against the LD MK VI / MK VIII.

 A balanced darkvoice would be amazing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah,i've been wondering if yuking will be making his version of the 337.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dbs what source are you using (SC or on board audio of the mobo ?). Three things come to mind, the pins on the NOS tubes may need cleaning, the Earth HDAM may not be fully seated (or making poor contact in the DIP8 socket) or the SC/media player buffering/cpu load on the USB bus may be producing this noise. How many USB devices do you have on this computer ?

 Of the 3 mentioned I willing to bet it's the computer. What software player and driver are you using ? What connection to the Compass are you using (from the source) ? 

 Can you use another digital input on the Compass to narrow down the possibilities please. A stand alone CDP would rule out the DAC and the 337 fairly quickly if you can get a hold of one (and a COAX digital cable) if it plays cleanly of course with the stand alone CDP.

 What operating system are you using, how much ram do you have installed and what CPU are you running ?

 Peete._

 

Yea, I've started wondering about computer load problems. My CPU and RAM should be more than fine. I am more inclined to think that it's where my music is stored. I have all my music stored on a 5400 RPM external USB hard drive. Thing of it is that I've never had this problem until now, why would it pop up suddenly like this if it was a computer based problem? It shouldn't. No viri or spyware to bog it down, I scanned earlier today in fact.

 I'm using my Compass from the motherboard (driver issues with the X-Fi card I have on Windows 7 x64) using coax. I have tried using iTunes instead of Foobar2000 though with USB instead of coax and I had the same problems.

 I am noticing now that the problems come in bursts, like the cache has maxed out and needs refilling. I will try moving some music onto one of my 7200 RPM internals and see if I have the same problems.

 I hope it's not my HDAM since I think the 337 already accentuates in allllllll the right places, the Moon HDAM's coloration isn't needed anymore like it used to be =D

 EDIT:: Playing some FLAC songs I already had on internal hard drives helps a bit, the general pops are gone. There's still some digital distortion of the buffer overrun type but it shouldn't be CPU or RAM as when I play FLAC on foobar my CPU usage doesn't even break 2% with a bunch of other programs running. My ram doesn't break 46%. I just think it comes down to hard drive spin up. All these stupid hyper energy efficient hard drives are made to spin down as much as possible...which means if you're doing something hard drive intensive and periodic, it will have to be constantly respun back up =P

 There is clearly digital "tearing" (what I call it), when I load a web page in firefox. Still doesn't make sense though as my CPU load still doesn't go above 40% in those instances. Naturally my ram doesn't go up at all.

 Potentially just a restart is all that will be needed to fix the tearing. The pops are completely gone though. The pops must have been external 5400 RPM hard drive related.


----------



## wasp131

I had a similar problem with my stx card,
 cleaning the opamp pins fixed it for me (just reseating them didn't work) after trying various other "fixes".
 Hope this helps,gotta start somewhere.


----------



## dBs

Whoops, missunderstood what you said. I'm going to play with it some more.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea, I've started wondering about computer load problems. My CPU and RAM should be more than fine. I am more inclined to think that it's where my music is stored. I have all my music stored on a 5400 RPM external USB hard drive. Thing of it is that I've never had this problem until now, why would it pop up suddenly like this if it was a computer based problem? It shouldn't. No viri or spyware to bog it down, I scanned earlier today in fact.

 I'm using my Compass from the motherboard (driver issues with the X-Fi card I have on Windows 7 x64) using coax. I have tried using iTunes instead of Foobar2000 though with USB instead of coax and I had the same problems.

 I am noticing now that the problems come in bursts, like the cache has maxed out and needs refilling. I will try moving some music onto one of my 7200 RPM internals and see if I have the same problems.

 I hope it's not my HDAM since I think the 337 already accentuates in allllllll the right places, the Moon HDAM's coloration isn't needed anymore like it used to be =D

 EDIT:: Playing some FLAC songs I already had on internal hard drives helps a bit, the general pops are gone. There's still some digital distortion of the buffer overrun type but it shouldn't be CPU or RAM as when I play FLAC on foobar my CPU usage doesn't even break 2% with a bunch of other programs running. My ram doesn't break 46%. I just think it comes down to hard drive spin up. All these stupid hyper energy efficient hard drives are made to spin down as much as possible...which means if you're doing something hard drive intensive and periodic, it will have to be constantly respun back up =P

 There is clearly digital "tearing" (what I call it), when I load a web page in firefox. Still doesn't make sense though as my CPU load still doesn't go above 40% in those instances. Naturally my ram doesn't go up at all.

 Potentially just a restart is all that will be needed to fix the tearing. The pops are completely gone though. The pops must have been external 5400 RPM hard drive related._

 

Test with an iPod? That would eliminate the computer source.


----------



## dBs

I'd say that I elimated the computer source already. It's most likely the external HDD. I will test that once and for all by swapping back to the Earth HDAM and using music from an internal HDD. If that comes up pop free, then I know it's the external spindle speed.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd say that I elimated the computer source already. It's most likely the external HDD. I will test that once and for all by swapping back to the Earth HDAM and using music from an internal HDD. If that comes up pop free, then I know it's the external spindle speed._

 

Groovy!


----------



## dBs

Yep, swapped back to the Earth HDAM, restarted the computer, and am using the FLAC files on internal hard drives. No pops at all.

 Hmm...now even the files on my external are pop free. It must have just been a resources thing, the restart must have freed up some pagefile or something. Got me =X

 Sounds beautiful though! A few songs where I was used to a tiny bit of harshness from my Compass+Hd650 combination is absolutely gone. Everything is just so smooth. The soundstaging I heard everyone rave about I didn't notice...until I took the time to pay attention. Michael Jackson's The Girl is Mine in 24bit (ripped from Vinyl) really puts the soundstaging front and center (in the good figurative sense).


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, swapped back to the Earth HDAM, restarted the computer, and am using the FLAC files on internal hard drives. No pops at all.

 Hmm...now even the files on my external are pop free. It must have just been a resources thing, the restart must have freed up some pagefile or something. Got me =X

 Sounds beautiful though! A few songs where I was used to a tiny bit of harshness from my Compass+Hd650 combination is absolutely gone. Everything is just so smooth. The soundstaging I heard everyone rave about I didn't notice...until I took the time to pay attention. Michael Jackson's The Girl is Mine in 24bit (ripped from Vinyl) really puts the soundstaging front and center (in the good figurative sense)._

 


 Maybe your HDAM was not seated well? The compass socket and the hdam pins are not an ideal match.


----------



## wasp131

Gotta keep those pins clean !!
 took me a week of messing in the o/s to figure it out.
 It ran fine for a few weeks after installing new opamps,then the sound just went bad,i suspected a driver problem or a cache problem too,i got so p*ssed with it i just stripped the opamps out and cleaned everything and it worked.


----------



## gordonshowers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alvin sawdust* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah,i've been wondering if yuking will be making his version of the 337._

 

He mentioned a 339 recently, but I haven't seen or heard anything about it since.

 Ah, here's the most recent news about it:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/loo...-336-a-472347/

 Edit: Apparently Yuking himself designed the original 337.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gordonshowers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He mentioned a 339 recently, but I haven't seen or heard anything about it since.

 Ah, here's the most recent news about it:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/loo...-336-a-472347/

 Edit: Apparently Yuking himself designed the original 337._

 


 Thanks,looks like an interesting development.Not sure if it's more suited to low impedance phones.
 Love my 337se,but if this is an upgrade,I will be seriously interested.


----------



## spookygonk

Does look lovely. These Chinese amp makers don't rest on their laurels, do they?


----------



## alvin sawdust

can't imagine the matt grey unit is the finished item.


----------



## wasp131

That looks like a powerful beast,
 It'll cost a small fortune to ship from china,looks a real heavyweight,better start reinforcing your shelving, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## LaurentZhang

480 USD supported by Darkvoice: Darkvoice Premier Sponsor Forum - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## dBs

Cheaper now than when I got it. Was already a good deal before but it's a really good deal now!


----------



## dBs

Got my Tung Sol 6SJ7GT mesh plate tubes in. Pre burn in, they seemed to add a bit more smoothness and definition to the high end than the stock Chinese tubes. The RCA 6AS7G gave more smoothness overall than the stock Chinese tubes but with the same overall sound profile. I think the thicker sound of the RCAs (probably described by most as being a bit more bass/mid heavy, which I like) with the more balanced, maybe even higher frequency emphasis of the Tung Sol really makes for a well balanced combination with emphasis in all the right areas and in all the right ways. Granted these are my first two tubes so there may be better, but for now I haven't heard it =D


----------



## LaurentZhang

Also sale for Dakrvoice 336SE: 200 USD! Only 10 units for headfiers!


----------



## robeeert1

What are the best replacement tubes for darkvoice 337 ever produced? thank you


----------



## Skylab

For the driver tubes, I think the Tung- Sol 6SJ7GT with the mesh shield are the best by far. As for the power tubes, I liked the GEC 6AS7G/A1834 and the Tung-Sol 5998 best.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





skylab said:


> For the driver tubes, I think the Tung- Sol 6SJ7GT with the mesh shield are the best by far. As for the power tubes, I liked the GEC 6AS7G/A1834 and the Tung-Sol 5998 best.


 


 Those GECs are almost impossible to source.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, sadly. I see them on EBay from time to time, but they are pretty rare. The 5998 is getting harder to get too, but there are more of them than the GEC, for sure.


----------



## Skylab

Dear Darkvoice 337 owners:
   
  I have some very nice 6SJ7GT tubes I want to give away free.  Please PM me if interested.  Thanks.


----------



## Aanta

I have been darkvoiced!!


----------



## voodoohao

Agreed I own a Darkvoice 337 and it is pretty awesome  However just wanted to ask how do the Denon D2000s/D5000s when paired up with the Darkvoice? Compared to the DT990s 250ohms version which would have a better sound signature ( in regards to bass ). I would prefer more bass extension, sort of like the bass will reverberate around your head, but not so much that it overshadows the vocals or covers detail. Anyone heard this pairing before and could tell me his/her experiences?


----------



## pataburd

From my experience, the 337 DOES NOT drive the Denons well--at all.  The D5000 sounded very brittle, edgy and closed in with the 337.  This was the ultimate reason for my selling the Darkvoice.
   
  A good--even a half-way decent--solid state amp really makes the Denons shine, though.


----------



## voodoohao

oh damn, was hoping that the Denons synergize well with the Darkvoice. What if a decent DAC was added to the mix?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





pataburd said:


> From my experience, the 337 DOES NOT drive the Denons well--at all.  The D5000 sounded very brittle, edgy and closed in with the 337.  This was the ultimate reason for my selling the Darkvoice.
> 
> A good--even a half-way decent--solid state amp really makes the Denons shine, though.


 
   
  Quote: 





voodoohao said:


> oh damn, was hoping that the Denons synergize well with the Darkvoice. What if a decent DAC was added to the mix?


 


  Pataburd is right, and a DAC isn't going to help.  The 337 is simply not technically a good match for low impedance dynamic-driver headphones like the Denons.  You need a transformer coupled tube amp to drive low impedance headphones like that, generally speaking.


----------



## Aanta

I concur with what Skylab and what pataburd said.  These headphone amps should not be mated with any low impedance cans at all.
   
  I went the other way and parted from the 701's and got myself the 250 ohm AKG 601's and the Darkvoice now perform as good as I could ever have expected.


----------



## fhuang

i didn't like my 337 with low impedance cans.  from hfi780 to k501 to gs1000i.  hf2 sound ok though.  by the way k601 is not 250 ohm and i didn't like my k601 with 337


----------



## voodoohao

Hmmm is there any headphones with similar bass qualities to the D5000 and at roughly the same prices? Which would pair well with the Darkvoice. Currently I'm using DT990s and I feel that although the bass impact is excellent it is more of a hard hitting kind of bass, rather than one that reverberates (vibrates?) around your head. I guess I would call it having a more punchy bass, while I've auditioned the D2000s and feel that they have a deeper bass extension, and the D5000s apparently trumps them in bass from what I've read. However I'm unable to audition the Denons with a Darkvoice amp cause the shop I go to does not stock Darkvoices, thus I would not be able to hear what the Denons sound like until I actually buy them, which is a bit risky. So hope you guys can help me out. My emphasis would not only be on music but on gaming and movie watching as well, so would like a set of cans with excellent immersion and good soundstage as well.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





voodoohao said:


> Hmmm is there any headphones with similar bass qualities to the D5000 and at roughly the same prices? Which would pair well with the Darkvoice. Currently I'm using DT990s and I feel that although the bass impact is excellent it is more of a hard hitting kind of bass, rather than one that reverberates (vibrates?) around your head. I guess I would call it having a more punchy bass, while I've auditioned the D2000s and feel that they have a deeper bass extension, and the D5000s apparently trumps them in bass from what I've read. However I'm unable to audition the Denons with a Darkvoice amp cause the shop I go to does not stock Darkvoices, thus I would not be able to hear what the Denons sound like until I actually buy them, which is a bit risky. So hope you guys can help me out. My emphasis would not only be on music but on gaming and movie watching as well, so would like a set of cans with excellent immersion and good soundstage as well.


 


  Can you take your Darkvoice to the shop where the Denons are?
   
  Les


----------



## voodoohao

Um I suppose I could but physically it's impossible cause I have to travel half an hour and it's a 15kg tank hahah I don't think it's worth the hassle. Actually the D2000s I've auditioned was powered by a Govibe Peak amp which I'm not too sure how good it actually is. But the headphones sounded good, pretty distinct ( in a good way ) from what I've heard from the beyers so far. Is it a fact that the D5000s actually sound lousy with Darkvoice amps? Would their sound signature actually change so much? (from being bassy to brittle sounding)  as mentioned by pataburd. I'm supposing brittle sounding means recessed mids?


----------



## voodoohao

Another question! Anyone knows whether the Audio GD Compass or the Cambridge DACMagic will sound like with the Darkvoice337? Am considering either one of these DACs I can get them for around the same price used. Cuz I just realised that there will probably be a major jump in quality if I add a DAC to my setup considering that my source now is currently the integrated sound card on my mobo :X


----------



## realmassy

Anyone compared the 337 against the WA3 or WA2?


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





voodoohao said:


> Another question! Anyone knows whether the Audio GD Compass or the Cambridge DACMagic will sound like with the Darkvoice337? Am considering either one of these DACs I can get them for around the same price used. Cuz I just realised that there will probably be a major jump in quality if I add a DAC to my setup considering that my source now is currently the integrated sound card on my mobo :X


 


  I have not heard the DACMagic.  But I had the Compass untill just recently and have the 337SE.
   
  The Compass with the Earth HDAM is a very nice piece of gear and sounds great with the DV.  It will also function as a Preamp, a Headphone amp, and a standalone DAC, and as a standalone Headphoen amp.  The only reason I got rid of it was because I had too much gear.  I really liked the sound of it though.  One advantage of the Compass is that if you don't want to wait for the warmup of the 337, you can just plugin to the Compass HA.  It is very versatile.


----------



## voodoohao

Okay i bought the dacmagic cuz it was going for a pretty cheap price used... certainly an improvement in the sound signature i must say. Still in the midst of putting it through its paces. But I found out a strange thing, my Darkvoice amp is no longer as hot as before, It's strange because a few days ago I couldn't even touch it for more than 3 seconds without burning my fingertips, but now the whole amp is noticeably cooler ( the surface of it at least ), and the weirdest thing is that the right side of the amp is much cooler than the left, to the touch. No discernable change in sound or drop in quality, but I slightly worried cause my amp is a used set and I have no idea if this means anything. The tubes are still equally hot to the touch though ( like light bulbs )


----------



## Ultrainferno

How does this amp do with the 600 ohm Beyers?
  I've seen Yuking say the 332 c/s are better for 250ohm headphones. Has anyone tried it?
  I like a dark and warm sounding amp, with a good bass punch (i know it depends on the tubes, but still)
   
  thanks guys


----------



## Skylab

Very, very well. It would be a great choice with 600 ohm Beyers.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Very, very well. It would be a great choice with 600 ohm Beyers.


 

 And compared to the WA2 driving the T1?


----------



## Skylab

I never compared them directly, and I had sold the 337 by the time I got the T1.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I never compared them directly, and I had sold the 337 by the time I got the T1.


 

 Thanks anyway!
  I'm torn between the WA2 and the 337 as upgrade for my current WA3...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Sell me your WA3 then. Serious!


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Sell me your WA3 then. Serious!


 
  I'll send you a PM when I've decided what to upgrade to


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks!


----------



## Fastek

Gents-
   
  Just picked up a used 337 and a slew of tubes from a US seller ......I am in the US as well.
   
  Received it today and I notice it is a 110 VAC 50 Hz machine. Is this amp going to work here in the States?
   
  I'm thinking it does not really matter as what I recall cycles only really matter when motors are involved.  
   
  Anyone have some first-hand knowledge on this subject?
   
  For that matter what country uses such an electrical service?
   
  Thanks !


----------



## wickitom

it should work, US voltage isn't exactly 120 volts everywhere, there is a range.


----------



## Fastek

Thanks ..........I was more concerned regarding the 50 Hz issue but I've powered up the unit and all is fine. Another newbie question though .....
   
  The fine seller of this unit also included a collection of tubes for me to try including the following:
   
  * The originals
  * (4) RCA 6AS7G
  * (4) Russian 6H13C
  * (2) Philips 6SJ7WGT
   
  So the story with me is I've been out of the high-end music scene for some time and have never owned a tube amp. I understand with this amp the pair of tubes nearest the front of the unit are the power tubes and the rear set are the drivers.  
   
  I've tried the amp out with the stock tubes but before I start swapping these others in ........is there any danger in putting a perticular tube in the wrong location and blowing it up or is everyhtning that I have interchangable in any slot?
   
  What would be a good arrangement to try based on what I have in hand?
   
  There wasn't any manual included with the unit so I'm really shooting from the hip here and I thnk you guys for all the help.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





fastek said:


> Thanks ..........I was more concerned regarding the 50 Hz issue but I've powered up the unit and all is fine. Another newbie question though .....
> 
> The fine seller of this unit also included a collection of tubes for me to try including the following:
> 
> ...


 

 I have the SE version.  But you should not be able to get one set mixed up from the other.  The pin-out should be greatly different.  You can play around all you want and then settle on the RCA's.


----------



## Skylab

The 6SJ7, which are the driver tubes, must be in the back. Do not put them in the front, or very bad things will happen. The sockets are the same octal-base type as the 6AS7 power tubes, but do NOT mix these up. Power tubes in the front, driver tubes in the back. 

Beyond that, no problem to swap the RCA 6AS7's for the Russian ones, but keep them in pairs of the same brand.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The 6SJ7, which are the driver tubes, must be in the back. Do not put them in the front, or very bad things will happen. The sockets are the same octal-base type as the 6AS7 power tubes, but do NOT mix these up. Power tubes in the front, driver tubes in the back.
> 
> Beyond that, no problem to swap the RCA 6AS7's for the Russian ones, but keep them in pairs of the same brand.


 

 Mine's definitely a lot different then.  I have 9 pin and 8 pin in the SE version.


----------



## Skylab

That's right - the SE used the 6BX6/EF80 for the driver tube, yes? Electrically equivalent to the 6SJ7, but as you pointed out, it's 9-pin.


----------



## Fastek

Thanks Gents ......that's what I needed to know.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's right - the SE used the 6BX6/EF80 for the driver tube, yes? Electrically equivalent to the 6SJ7, but as you pointed out, it's 9-pin.


 


  Dead on!


----------



## Wil

Sorry to bump the thread, but i just got this baby.
   
  Would like to check if the tubes needed for the amp need to be in matched pairs. (For both driver/power tubes)


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





wil said:


> Sorry to bump the thread, but i just got this baby.
> 
> Would like to check if the tubes needed for the amp need to be in matched pairs. (For both driver/power tubes)


 

 If you were deaf in one ear, mismatched tubes could be used to good advantage perhaps...


----------



## stirlmc

I really want to get an LCD-2 but am a little worried that this is not the right amp for the job.
  Can the DV337 power the LCD-2 or is this not a good match? Anyone tried them together?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I have the 339. It has enough power but I don't like the combination with the 339 that much.
  The He-500 on the other matches great with the 339


----------



## les_garten

Just thought I would point out the killer price I have on my 337SE in the For Sale thread....


----------



## voodoohao

Hi just a quick question hopefully someone will be able to answer it, how does the Darkvoice 337 sound with GE 6AS7GA and RCA 6SJ7GT tubes? Anyone heard this combination before?


----------



## hifimanrookie

malos said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just got my 337 home...yeah..was a bit of a gamble but when i test heard it with my new he500 i was cured.. it pairs heavenly with my he500...i think it also has to do with the tube setup...and its modded..the two on-switches are now on backside to avoid interference i understood from the previous owner..check my avatar for pic... I play music from my hm602 with volume on 21 o'clock on the 337..so powerfull!


----------



## hifimanrookie

ultrainferno said:


> I have the 339. It has enough power but I don't like the combination with the 339 that much.
> The He-500 on the other matches great with the 339




I can vote for this..my 337 also pairs well with my he500...but maybe the double helix quicksilver headphone cable has something to do with the right pairing?


----------



## snip3r77

Any other difference between the 337 and 339? Are tubes used the same? Last but not least, is 337 able to drive the HE500 PROPERLY ( same >600mw output as 339?) ? Thanks

From headfonia's review, 

Yuking’s statement is that he improved the Darkvoice designs even more giving an even better listening experience to the customer. The 339 is the La Figaro version of the DarkVoice 337, but upgraded. Here’s what LF had to say: “The output capacitors of 337 series machines is only 50μF but 339 is 130μF, so 339 have more strength in the bass, the structure of 339 is more reasonable, the pipe is on the front far from the the transformer avoiding interference. Especially with low impedance, the headphones can be very clear, 337 has a mild hum when it running low impedance headphones. 339 has better components, tubes: RCA socket by CMC and Headphone socket by Neutrik both make reliability better”.


----------



## Tiff_Needle

Hi,
  
 I've had the DV 337 for some time now, and I'll be changing my source therefore I would like to know if any of you knows what is the maximum admissible input level on the DV 337?
  
 Would 4 Vrms clip its input?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Synthax

Do you have to regulate each chanel independantly? Each time you want to increase or decrease volume?


----------



## Ultrainferno

yes, that's dual mono is all about


----------



## Synthax

Thank you, is it very annoying during daily use?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Doesn't bother me at all, very easy to do


----------



## Xenophon

I purchased a used 337 from a fellow head-fi'er, it's coming with the Svetlana rare 70'ties 6as7g (power) and RCA 5693 'red hots'(driver) tubes. The seller's extremely helpful regarding info about tubes etc but I'd like to do some reading up on this.  A lot of info is right here on the site (from skylab, pataburd and others) but it's spread all over the place.  Is there a recommended book (preferably on paper, I'm old fashioned) that gives an overview of the basics and that (ideally) provides a cross-referenced list of all tubes that are compatible/interchangeable and states their characteristics?
  
 Lots of stuff to learn but for a newbie like me the terminology and tube codes etc are very confusing.
  
 Thanks!  Looking forward to trying out the amp in a couple of days, first tube experience for me.  Oh, and if anyone knows a recommend (preferably EU-based) website that has a large selection that info's always welcome.  I found Langrex in the UK, looks like they have a huge inventory but alas, no online pricing info.  And  tube world also looks interesting but they're in the US so that means long distance shipping and customs formalities + extra taxes.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Hifimanrookie finally sold his 337?


----------



## Xenophon

Tu dixisti....I was looking to give tube amplifiers a try, could have purchased a new one from anywhere but as I've no experience and don't know if I'll like they way they sound I was looking for a cheap, good quality solid design and no hassles shipping it from China.  Don't need the latest whistles and bells.  I saw a picture of the wiring in a 337 and was hugely impressed by the cleanness so started digging and found good reviews and one on sale from a fellow head-fier living close by (well, close by when I'm in Europe, I shift between locations).  It'll be here soon, really looking forward to it.  Not for my HE-6 but curious as to how the other cans will sound vs my ss setup.
  
 The only thing is the learning curve about tubes looming like Mt Everest...


----------



## rosgr63

Langrex sell via eBay too.


----------



## hifimanrookie

xenophon said:


> I purchased a used 337 from a fellow head-fi'er, it's coming with the Svetlana rare 70'ties 6as7g (power) and RCA 5693 'red hots'(driver) tubes. The seller's extremely helpful regarding info about tubes etc but I'd like to do some reading up on this.  A lot of info is right here on the site (from skylab, pataburd and others) but it's spread all over the place.  Is there a recommended book (preferably on paper, I'm old fashioned) that gives an overview of the basics and that (ideally) provides a cross-referenced list of all tubes that are compatible/interchangeable and states their characteristics?
> 
> Lots of stuff to learn but for a newbie like me the terminology and tube codes etc are very confusing.
> 
> Thanks!  Looking forward to trying out the amp in a couple of days, first tube experience for me.  Oh, and if anyone knows a recommend (preferably EU-based) website that has a large selection that info's always welcome.  I found Langrex in the UK, looks like they have a huge inventory but alas, no online pricing info.  And  tube world also looks interesting but they're in the US so that means long distance shipping and customs formalities + extra taxes.




@ultrainferno: yep..sold it. And i have a feeling the evil one found a good home 

Here u have some info about tubes that go well with the 337... Print it out so u have it on paper.. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/324469/review-four-6as7g-based-home-tube-headphone-amps-reviewed-and-compared

http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=3453.0

A bit oftopic..just got my first pic of my new amp..sexy!!!  U can find it on the he500 appreciation thread if interested 

Tip... Find some better feet! Tip: herbies audiolab tenderfoot..... They are extremely good in what they do and very affordable..i had them under my 337..

Ps.. I bought all my tubes oversees..florida based tubestore..cant remember the name now..but they are excellent to deal with and trustworthy.


----------



## Rayzilla

There is a local shop that carries three different models of Darkvoice. If I get the chance, I will see if I can try them out with the HD800, TH600 and TH900. I am in the market for one of these three headphones and I would like to add an entry/mid level amp with the HP purchase.
  
 I'm listening to some Buble with the MBA->E18->Pro900. It's quite nice and I would like to see how he would sound through the above set up.


----------



## Xenophon

For those based in Europe and looking for tubes, after searching the net for hours I stumbled upon a site in my own back yard that looks like it has a very decent selection indeed.  Ordered a couple of sets from them (6SJ7WGT  and 6AS7GA, both Sylvania) and the process was very smooth, I got a tracking number and the tubes will be here next monday.
  
 Their shop:  http://electols.com/index.php?main_page=index
  
 I'm not affiliated with them in any way except as a customer.


----------



## Xenophon

Ok, many people reading this will probably think that i'm either lying (see attached pic though) or deaf but here goes:
  
 Upon receiving my DV 337 I imagined using it with my HE-500 and especially the Senn HD-800.  I also own a HifiMan HE-6 but never, ever imagined that I'd be able to power it correctly on the 337.  Of course, out of curiosity I did give it a try and almost fell off my chair upon hearing that it actually performs well!  
  
 Setup:  Macbook Pro-- USB to Violectric V800 DAC, output volume at 90%---Atratus RCA interconnects--DV 337 powered by TungSol 5998 and RCA 6504 (metal, red) tubes---Toxic cable--HE-6.
  
 I normally listen to classical at low-normal volume, using my V-200 amp with the HE-6 the volume dials are usually at 9-10 'o clock, with the 337 I'm currently listening to Schubert with the volume dials at 12.  That's plenty loud for me, bass is full (put on an organ concerto to check), the highs are not clipped or distorted, nothing like that, just a clean tube sound and to my ears a good pairing even though the impedance of the 6 is only 50 Ohms.
  
 Frankly, I don't understand how this is possible.  OK, it's a dual mono design but powering one of the most inefficient headphones on the market???  I wonder what the output is, DV are a bit cagey about this but going from what I hear it can't be less than 1 W/channel into 50 Ohms.  The HE-6 documentation specifies a minimum requirement of 2W for an amp and my comparison point (the V200) delivers 2.75W.
  
 If anyone has some sort of explanation for this then by all means, share.


----------



## hifimanrookie

xenophon said:


> Ok, many people reading this will probably think that i'm either lying (see attached pic though) or deaf but here goes:
> 
> Upon receiving my DV 337 I imagined using it with my HE-500 and especially the Senn HD-800.  I also own a HifiMan HE-6 but never, ever imagined that I'd be able to power it correctly on the 337.  Of course, out of curiosity I did give it a try and almost fell off my chair upon hearing that it actually performs well!
> 
> ...



I BELIEVE U! As that amp looks similiar to me..  and its funny u sound so surprised..just like i was when i heard him before i bought it on the spot 
I told u when i sold it to u..this particular 337 is modified by the first owner...thats why he is probably so good... No one believed me that this 337(nick name 'the evil one') would be this good as ur also expressing now..i knew this already..am glad u experience it also now urself..u dont need to excuse urself for that..i know myself almost no one believed me when i said ur amp is something special..but i have to be honest..never thoight it would be able to drive the he6... Damn..why did i sell my 337..  

Am glad its exceeds all ur expectations...and i hope others will see that the 337 can be something special...did u try other pairs of tubes? I can promise u that if u find the tungsol sj7gt mesh plates (drivers) in combo with the tung sols 5998 or bendix 6080 WB with slotted graphite plates u will be in for a big surprise!

Enjoy ur amp my friend..am glad u like it just s much as i did...

tip..dont mention it on other threads as somehow no one will believe u as its not shiit or emotiva branded.. 
As i said this amp react well on powercables..did u find a set already through ur friend at sennheiser? 

Ps..i am guessing u mean RCA 5693 red hots instead of rca 6504? Or is this a model i didnt know about..did u compare it to the red hots if they are different?
And good choice choosing a toxic cable 

Ps..if all goes well there will be a benelux headfi meeting this year..would love to see u there, shake ur hand and try ur he6 on my new amp (will be delivered in febr) and would love to see 'the evil one' again


----------



## kramer5150

Just throwing this out there... there are at least 2-3 different versions of DV337, with MANY internal design changes over the years.  Its been a rolling design change since its intro, with changes made to power supply resistors, capacitors, output coupling caps... and I think theres been a rectifier change as well (but don't quote me on that last one).
  
 The biggest change has been an overall increase in output coupling capacitance.  The earlier models had ~50uf-400V caps, which was not nearly high enough for impedance loads in the low 40-Ohms.
  
 So depending on which version you get... it could be a night and day difference in terms of low-Z synnergy.  I _*think*_ you are one of the few who use the 337 with low sensitivity, planar magnetic cans. _(Others please correct me if this is not the case)._  They are spec'd at 38 ohms, but I'd be surprised if their impedance curve and overall Z-characteristics are the same as a traditional ~35 ohm voice-coil driver.... for which many OTL amps get a low grade.
  
 Anyhow... thanks for the feedback.  Ive been wanting to try mine with the HE-400.


----------



## hifimanrookie

kramer5150 said:


> Just throwing this out there... there are at least 2-3 different versions of DV337, with MANY internal design changes over the years.  Its been a rolling design change since its intro, with changes made to power supply resistors, capacitors, output coupling caps... and I think theres been a rectifier change as well (but don't quote me on that last one).
> 
> The biggest change has been an overall increase in output coupling capacitance.  The earlier models had ~50uf-400V caps, which was not nearly high enough for impedance loads in the low 40-Ohms.
> 
> ...



I dont know to who ur replying with this post..but i do know there had been lots of internal changes on the 337... But i have to correct u on something...the newer versions are perfect to drive a he500... And many do that..so i dont know where u get ur info from that its rare that 337 owners dont use it to drive a planar... The he500 and the hd650 are the best pairing with the 337 i came across! So the he400 would probably be driven well also.
And dont forget..his 337(it was mine by the way!) is heavily modified... I had my 337 driving the he500 on 22:00o'clock volume... And i had 3/4 of the volume reserve (goes to 18:00 max) to spare...

If u never experienced a 337 in person u cant honestly say it cant drive a planar magnetic.. Just try one with ur he400.. Ican already tell ya now u will be very surprised how a otl amp for gods sake can drive a hard to drive planar at low ohm... 

It always surpiprises me people saying that its hard to believe that a 337 can drive a (in my case) a he500 perfectly and sou ding wonderfull with it..... 

I just wanna ask u..Before u say that..TRY ONE.. U will eat ur words i can promise u that... 

But i have to be honest..hearing that my ex-337 capable to drive a he6 surpised me also..but i totally believe it..as i know how good it drove my he300/400 and until recently my he500!

Just try one..or a 339 ofcourse..its sibling.

PS!!! I agree totally with u that most affordable OTLbased tube amps are Rubbish with low ohm phones..but somehow the 337/339 is a exception..i know that by own experience having owned one for 2 years and using it at least 3-4 hours a day without any faults or hickups! That last thing is to prove that people saying a 337/339 isunreliable is a total fairytale..it not more faulty then a bottlehead or wooaudio..its just how u use it..


----------



## Ultrainferno

337/339 drive HE500 very well. The HE400 can be driven by anything though, it just needs to be plugged in


----------



## kramer5150

It was just a general comment.
 I have updated my statement above though to more correctly reflect my line of thinking.
  
 I think the important factor readers need to keep in mind though is that not all 337 designs are the same, and there are major differences between the various renditions.
  
 Heres mine, an early example, with 50uf coupling caps and big green ceramic power resistors.

  
 Heres the version that had a couple www reports of power resistor overheating.  Note the resistors with gold anodize thats baked/scorched off from the heat.  I think these reports are where the 337 reliability questions come from.  AFIAK this is the ONLY circuit layout that has reliability complaints.  My older layout shown above has been very reliable, minus a blown fuse once.  Note you can also see the additional Vishay capacitor they added to the output stage, the bright green one.
  
See rockgrotto forum thread here

  
 Smoked resistor close-up.

  
 Yet another rendition... but with additional Vishay caps.  Power supply caps look different too.  Notice also this one has gold anodize resistors that are fading from heat.

  
 I think this is the current model... even more caps, and additional resistors to better handle heat.  Note this version might also have different value resistors.

  
 Notice also some versions have RCA preamp outputs too.  I think the key point is that not all 337 amps are the same, the only way to really know which one you have is to take the cover off and look at the component layout inside.


----------



## hifimanrookie

kramer5150 said:


> It was just a general comment.
> I have updated my statement above though to more correctly reflect my line of thinking.



I saw that..but ur way of thinking is a general one of which i dont know where that comes from...I AM NOT ONE OF THE FEW USING a 337 to drive a planar..i was at a meeting and ALL people there liked how it sounded through my he500.. And most said that if they had the budget they would buy that pair... 
Only one had its doubts about the way it wasnt sounding like a tube amp..i think it was u ultrainferno my friend..u were there with ur wooaudio amp if i am not mistaken.. 

But somehow there is a general thought that a 337/339 cant drive a planar well...and funny is that EVERYONE saying that..NEVER EVER heard a 337/339 or even saw one for real... They say it just because its a otl based amp..

its like we all said that a diesel powered car cant ever compete with a car running on petrol.. And we all know what happened on the 24hr lemans being won by diesel powered audi's the last few years... I always say: try one... Or else go back to ur emotiva or shiit stuff.


----------



## Ultrainferno

hifimanrookie said:


> Only one had its doubts about the way it wasnt sounding like a tube amp..i think it was u ultrainferno my friend..u were there with ur wooaudio amp if i am not mistaken..


 
  
 I brought a couple of amps but no WOO. I didn't say I didn't like it, I said the 339 sounded more tube-ish than your 337 which sounded faster like a solid state. I preferred the tube sound but your amp powered it more than sufficiently


----------



## hifimanrookie

ultrainferno said:


> I brought a couple of amps but no WOO. I didn't say I didn't like it, I said the 339 sounded more tube-ish than your 337 which sounded faster like a solid state. I preferred the tube sound but your amp powered it more than sufficiently



Oopsie  My apologies for saying u had a woo with u 
But i can remember u saying that my amp was to much solid state sounding for ur liking, never forgot that for some weird reason 

Am glad my baby found a new owner who appreciates it just as much as i did..that was very important for me..as i care a lot about my stuff..just like i did with my modded mstage i once had and which i sold on that particular meeting to a couple owning some grados 325


----------



## kramer5150

Aah ok then... Let it be noted that my speculation above has been corrected.   There are more members than I had originally thought using planars with the 337... with excellent results.
  
 Either way, it is a great amp and I enjoy mine a lot.


----------



## hifimanrookie

kramer5150 said:


> Aah ok then... Let it be noted that my speculation above has been corrected.   There are more members than I had originally thought using planars with the 337... with excellent results.
> 
> Either way, it is a great amp and I enjoy mine a lot.



I saw that now..nice pics by the way.. 
Maybe u can try a newer model? Or try the amp ultrainferno uses..the more modern 339.
I had the model with the horizontal row of caps..thats last pic. But as far i can remember the caps were of different color..


----------



## Ultrainferno

hifimanrookie said:


> I saw that now..nice pics by the way..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Used. I have a custom made 300B amp for my orthos now. The 339 gathers dust like the best


----------



## hifimanrookie

ultrainferno said:


> Used. I have a custom made 300B amp for my orthos now. The 339 gathers dust like the best



Cool!

So ur going to sell urs soon? Just like i did?


----------



## Ultrainferno

no I'm a bit of a collector


----------



## Xenophon

Already relieved that you guys don't think I'm delusional.  HifManRookie:  purchasing your 337 was value wise amongst the best deals I've done in HiFiland last year. Closely followed by a pair of Tung-Sol 5998 for 55 EUR which I scored NOS from a guy who mentioned in capitals on his page that he had purchased a huge lot of tubes and was selling them on but knew nothing about them, couldn't test them, offered no warranty whatsoever and sold=sold.  I took the gamble and lo and behold, they arrived pristine, in their original box.  Turned out he had purchased the stock of some French army depot that was being cleared and all those tubes had just been sitting there, untouched, for decades.  If I had known I'd have purchased 10 pair, they're all gone now.  Anyway, glorious sound together with the RCA's.  Am keeping my eyes open for a pair of GEC curved brown base 6AS7 but those I've seen so far are hideously expensive and I'm not sure if they're worth the premium.
  
 Frankly I don't understand how these DV/La Figaro tube amps are not more popular.  I was already impressed the first time I saw a pic of one that was open when I noticed the neatness of the wiring.  Call me stupid but neat wiring indicates an attention to detail that usually goes together with a good product.  If you compare that to some of the competitors.... (Stereophile of last month showed a pic of a Sophia Electric selling for >2000 USD with wiring that looked like hell, bad soldering, components bent (!) so they'd fit the chassis.  Typically, although they remarked on that and despite measurements being out of whack, it got a glowing review...).  
  
 My only regret is that I'm flying back to my base in India wednesday and will have to leave the amp behind in Europe until my next visit.


----------



## kramer5150

xenophon said:


> Already relieved that you guys don't think I'm delusional.  HifManRookie:  purchasing your 337 was value wise amongst the best deals I've done in HiFiland last year. Closely followed by a pair of Tung-Sol 5998 for 55 EUR which I scored NOS from a guy who mentioned in capitals on his page that he had purchased a huge lot of tubes and was selling them on but knew nothing about them, couldn't test them, offered no warranty whatsoever and sold=sold.  I took the gamble and lo and behold, they arrived pristine, in their original box.  Turned out he had purchased the stock of some French army depot that was being cleared and all those tubes had just been sitting there, untouched, for decades.  If I had known I'd have purchased 10 pair, they're all gone now.  Anyway, glorious sound together with the RCA's.  Am keeping my eyes open for a pair of GEC curved brown base 6AS7 but those I've seen so far are hideously expensive and I'm not sure if they're worth the premium.
> 
> Frankly I don't understand how these DV/La Figaro tube amps are not more popular.  I was already impressed the first time I saw a pic of one that was open when I noticed the neatness of the wiring.  Call me stupid but neat wiring indicates an attention to detail that usually goes together with a good product.  If you compare that to some of the competitors.... (Stereophile of last month showed a pic of a Sophia Electric selling for >2000 USD with wiring that looked like hell, bad soldering, components bent (!) so they'd fit the chassis.  Typically, although they remarked on that and despite measurements being out of whack, it got a glowing review...).
> 
> My only regret is that I'm flying back to my base in India wednesday and will have to leave the amp behind in Europe until my next visit.


 
 I really want to get an HE-400 to try out with mine, now that they're on sale for $299..!!!
  
 I think its the availability that scares people off on the DV/LF amps.   The companies just don't have a www presence here on HF, and you're forced to buy them from foreign (depending on where you are located) retailers.  Beneath all cosmetic beauty, the internal wiring, component and trace layout on these amps is unmatched for the $$$.  Theres just something I find appealing about an old-school, point-to-point component layout, where you can really see what everything is doing in the signal chain.
  
 My amp was totally TRASHED by US customs who did a HORRENDOUS job re-packing the amp as it passed through US borders.  I don't have pictures, so you'll have to just trust me on this.  They just threw the amp back into the box without securing it in the foam shock packaging.  A corner of the amp chassis had punctured the corrugated outer box, the tube cage banana-plug pins had been sheared off and were lose rattling around inside the chassis, the tube cage was crushed into a trapezoid, and the large toggle on/off switches were busted off.  Luckily the TS 5998 and mesh-plate drivers had managed to stay in their individual cartons... which were also loosely bouncing around inside the box with the amp!!  Its a HEAVY amp, and if you can imagine the amount of impact-force needed to do this kind of damage.
  
 I was able to replace the switches, re-paint the tube cage and touch up the chassis with DuPont / Sherwin Williams metallic gray automotive paint (fortunately DV used one of the standard colors!!).  I think it says something about the physical robustness of the circuit, components selected and the structural design of the chassis.  I don't think too many amps this big/heavy would survive what mine has gone through.  Anyhow... here's a pic.  After all I have been through with this amp, its not going anywhere... with the TS tubes it sounds great coupled with output transformers powering any of my low impedance cans.


----------



## hifimanrookie

Am sorry to hear bout ur ordeal...i packed my 337 almost airtight so it would be safe while being sent to belgium..was hours work! 

Nice pics by the way!


----------



## Xenophon

kramer5150 said:


> I really want to get an HE-400 to try out with mine, now that they're on sale for $299..!!!
> 
> I think its the availability that scares people off on the DV/LF amps.   The companies just don't have a www presence here on HF, and you're forced to buy them from foreign (depending on where you are located) retailers.  Beneath all cosmetic beauty, the internal wiring, component and trace layout on these amps is unmatched for the $$$.  Theres just something I find appealing about an old-school, point-to-point component layout, where you can really see what everything is doing in the signal chain.
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry to hear what happened to your amp, it's always a risk if you have to import stuff unfortunately.  I live in 2 places (am european but currently again in India for my job) and I don't import electronics but occasionally import stuff like books into India.  You wouldn't believe the state in which some of the heavier ones arrive after some bonehead at Mumbai customs pulls open the packaging for inspection, then just stuffs everything back haphazardly, slaps some tape over it and sends it on its way to Delhi where I live.  And with customs anywhere it's always a hassle to deal with the paperwork and extra costs.  Anyway, you did a very good job restoring your amp.  Hifimanrookie indeed shipped mine from the Netherlands to Belgium (barely a couple 100 km and no customs) in a box with packaging to withstand a bomb strike within 10 feet of it.  Took me 15 minutes to unpack   Last time I purchased tea in India and had it shipped to Belgium, customs cut holes into each and every 250 gram pack (undoubtably thinking I'd be so stupid as to purchase weed in India, pack it like fine Darjeeling and ship it out to Europe...), things were a mess when they arrived.
  
 But I think you're right in that unknown gear=unloved gear.  Apparently a producer needs to pay up for ad space, then gets a coincidentally glowing review, people jump on the bandwagon and the snowball starts roiling down the hill.  Some of the stuff I've read on these forums regarding products I've listened to myself and that both I and a close friend who's also a classical music composer/conductor (with audio gear worth the equivalent of a house) have heard independently  and concluded was less than optimal ( to put things mildly ) simply beggars belief.  And I'd hate to pay a euro to every poster on Head-Fi who talks about stuff they haven't even heard much less own.
  
 I like my 337 very much with the TS 5998 and the HE-6. They're sitting 6600 km away in my house in Belgium now, unfortunately, as I'm back in India (but enjoying my HE-500, different and far less clear/resolving than the 6 but still a world class headphone imho).
  
 Quick tip for travelers:  at Brussels airport I purchased a pair of Parrot ZIK bluetooth noise cancelling cans and they actually sound pretty nice as far as SQ goes.  Love the interface (volume/track control by using your finger on the side of the headphone and an app that comes with pretty handy control/eq functions).  Can't compare them to my HifiMan cans but I've heard more expensive noise cancelling stuff from Senn that doesn't sound as good.


----------



## Xenophon

In case anybody would like to try this but is afraid to blow his 337 sky-high:  I can confirm that the 6528 power tubes work just fine.
  
 The issue is the heater which draws 5A, about double what a regular 6080/6AS7 heater draws.  These are high gain tubes, graphite colums, still burning in at the moment have had them playing non-stop for the past 3 hours.  They do run hot but sound very nice, I'll post some impressions after burn-in.  Just to cover my behind:  It works fine with me and my 337 but of course I don't guarantee 100% that it'll do the same with yours.  As with any advice you get on a site such as this:  if it breaks you get to keep the pieces.  But it didn't break my 337.


----------



## hifimanrookie

xenophon said:


> In case anybody would like to try this but is afraid to blow his 337 sky-high:  I can confirm that the 6528 power tubes work just fine.
> 
> The issue is the heater which draws 5A, about double what a regular 6080/6AS7 heater draws.  These are high gain tubes, graphite colums, still burning in at the moment have had them playing non-stop for the past 3 hours.  They do run hot but sound very nice, I'll post some impressions after burn-in.  Just to cover my behind:  It works fine with me and my 337 but of course I don't guarantee 100% that it'll do the same with yours.  As with any advice you get on a site such as this:  if it breaks you get to keep the pieces.  But it didn't break my 337.



My friend..although i appreciate ur advice and try to help the other 337 owners..like i did in the past....pls dont forget urs is modded and one of the latter models ..its very much possible that those heavy tubes will not be right for the regular 337 or the older (weaker) models of the 337.... There are a couple of older reversions as u also know, with worse quality parts.

Just wanted to help out.....sorry for bugging in...u have all my respect my friend..u know that


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## xmathx

Karmer what the headphone amp on the right of the darkvoice with the clear top ?


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## Liu Junyuan

I know this question has been asked before, but since the 337 has so many different versions, I am wondering how this compares to the La Figaro 339, which for some reason costs less than the Darkvoice 337. 
  
 Any thoughts?


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## gug42

Hello Evryone,
  
  
 My research about a full real tube amp, leads me to this one DarkVoice 337SE.
  
 Good conception and good value for money ?  It's still the case ?
  
 Well I ve got some headphone and like to tests somes others, is there ok with this amp ?
 - First, HE-500 , is it ok for this planar with relatively low sensibility and low impedence ? <= seem ok from the precedent page. good 
 - Second, Beyer DT 1770 250Ohms, high sensibility
 - Shure srh1540, 50ohms and 100 db sensibility
 - fostex th-x00
  
  
 Thank you in advance !
  
 And any tube recommandation  plz  ? in order to define my budget 
  
  
 Regards,


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## serman005

Can anyone answer how the 337 does for HD600 or 650 (300 0hms)? Any difference between the 336 and 337? Thanks!


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## alvin sawdust

serman005 said:


> Can anyone answer how the 337 does for HD600 or 650 (300 0hms)? Any difference between the 336 and 337? Thanks!


 
 I had the 337 SE a few years back and paired it with HD650 to very good effect. Controlled the 650 very well especially in the bass department.
 If I am not mistaken isn't the 337 basically two 336 in one chassis?


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