# The new Grover MK III ICs



## pigmode

Well, I finally got around to jotting down a few notes about these new Grover MK III ICs. The first thing I noticed is that its blue jacket seems to be a little more flexible than with the MK II. They also seem to have similar vintage RCA fittings. If that is incorrect, perhaps Grover or someone else can correct me because unfortunately, my MK IIs are still out on loan. Because of that, I won't be able to make any direct comparisons, although I still have some fairly good general impressions of the MK II version, and will try to make a few comparative remarks in that regard. 

 My current system has been in this particular configuration for sometime now. I know it well, and am fairly sensitive to any changes that might be introduced. There are upgrades planned for the near future, but this is how it looks at the moment: 

 - Fi X (direct-coupled) SET amplifier/ with Magnaquest OPT upgrade 
 - one-off EML Globe 45 output tubes 
 - 47 Labs Shigaraki DAC (non-upsampling, digital filterless) 
 - Rega Planet 2000 (transport) 
 - Acoustic Zen Satori speaker wires 
 - Galante Rhapsody loudspeakers (8" dual-concentric/ with bass reflex cabs) 

 My audio tastes run to a pursuit of an ultra-smooth sound, while I absolutey abhor any hint of stridency or anything close to what might be considered analytical. I sometimes think that I am way out in audiopile left field but then again, I've had a few detail freaks over and they had few complaints about my system. Midrange purity and a pleasing tonality are paramount, and only after that is achieved do I look for other qualities such as imaging and detail. The point is that the above system is a reflection of my musical tastes, and likewise, so will be my impressions of any new component. 

 Grover mentioned that these cables do not seem to require a very long break-in period, so I decided to run them for about 50 hours before doing any critical listening. My experience with a variety of cables is that one can percieve the true qualities of a cable after 30 to 40 hours of burn-in, although more time will often bring a slightly higher level of refinement. Right now there is about 200 hours on the Grovers. 

 The Grover MK III 

 For quite sometime now, my IC of choice has been the (copper) Luminous Audio Synchestra Signature Reference. They are characterized by a nice sense of tone and a slight midrange bloom. I had been very happy with them and really had no concept of further experimentation. Enter the Grovers. 

 One of the first things I noticed about the Grovers is the way they excel at imaging. The manner in which they project the width, depth, and height of the soundstage is eye opening. Listening to "Singing Winds, Crying Beasts" from the Mo-Fi version of Satana Abraxax, it is pretty remarkable the way the chimes seem to float from top to bottom in undulating columns from left to right, and seem to emanate from most definite and yet ephemeral points in space. Whoa. 

 The Grovers have excellent air and detail. The way they resolve subtle high frequency and midrange detail is most rewarding. There is texture to the sound of the bow as it is drawn across a violin or cello, and there is a rich reverberant woodiness to that sound as it interacts with those instruments' carefully crafted wooden bodies. Sonny Rollins on the sax in "Way Out West" has such a rich tonal quality that it makes me smile every time. Oh, and speaking of tone-- Mo-Fi/ Satana Abraxax/ Carlos Santana. What more can I say? Okay, Tony Rice on the Martin D 28 in "Unit Of Measure". Want more? Keith Jarrett at the piano in "The Koln Concert". I think the balance of attack and decay with the Grovers has a lot to do with its tonal qualities. Classical? I can't talk about that now--gotta get this post out, gotta keep moving. For now I'll just say....groovy baby. 

 Voice? Don't get me started. Rebecca Pidgeon, Alison Krauss, Joni, Rickie Lee, Sam Cooke etc, etc. Tone and depth of tone come through very nicely with detail and air. With coherence. 

 With most silver cables, increased air and detail usually means air and detail plus sibilance and stridency. With the MK IIIs, it means an increased resolution of otherwise all too subtle detail that is then set about the soundstage with a coherence that makes one want to lay back and dream. In the absense of such coherence, what you have is a subtle garble, or hash. 

 Now my Luminous Audio copper cables have a bit of that hash and garble but they are not that bad sounding. They are great cables, with a richness that can be very relaxing. I like them a lot, but since useing the Grover MK IIIs, I have not had the urge to put the Luminous Audios back in, like I did with the MK IIs. I can't say for sure, but it seems the MK IIIs are smoother on the top end, and therefore more forgiving of lesser recordings. It may be that I have just come to appreciate the qualities of the Grovers more, whether MK II or III--can't say for certain, so I won't compare directly. 

 That's it in a nutshell (what kind of nut fits in a shell like this?)


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## tom hankins

Is the price still the same for the new cables? I think I paid 80.00 shipped for mine.


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## pigmode

I believe they are, Tom. The technical/ physical aspects of these wires, are pretty interesting but a little over my head. After going through several expensive silver cables early on and basically swearing off on silver, I find it suprising that I have these cables in my system. 

 The going price makes it all the more rewarding.


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## DarkAngel

PM & Tom
 Don't tease us.......more info:

 -website, where to buy?
 -trail period?
 -photo of cable?

 I have never heard of these before, must be very new or very underground......the price I like very much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Tom
 Any other impressions to add, what cables did you compare when getting your Grovers?

 PM
 Do you like these better vs old Silver Audio Appassionata ICs you had?


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Nice post Pigmode. The mkII's really impressed me while I had them. They seemed to bring out the truth of the recording. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since then I've moved onto active interconnects. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Biggie.


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## OakIris

I'm with DarkAngel...Who the heck is Grover???


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## DarkAngel

OK.....after searching previous posts I found the thread at Steve Hoffman website where they are "promoting" these cables and Grover hangs out (seems he is friend of Steve Hoffman). Sent e-mail to try one. 

 Fortunately Pigmode has experience with higher end ICs, most of the posters at Steve Hoffman forum use entry level ICs so hard to guage anything from thier positive raves.

 Don't really need any ICs currently, but always interested in finding "giant killer" cheap ICs that perform way above thier price.
 I will probably compare these with mid level Bogdan Silver ICs,
 wish Grover ICs had Silver Eichmann Bullet RCAs but these cost more than Grover's retail for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Grover IC Discussion Forum


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## tom hankins

I've got a pr. of the Bogdan Silver reference that will be hear tomorrow. They are used and burned in and I will post some thoughts. I've used my grovers alot on two different systems they are well worth the money. Better than anything I've had here at the time up to the 250.00 a pr. price. But not on the level of most of the cables I've owned above that price. They can hang with very good gear with out the feeling your cabling is holding you back. 
 I had some Bear Labs Silver lightning, LAT International IC200, MIT's and Cardas Quadlinks here at the same time and liked the grovers more than any of them. All of these were more $$$ than the Grovers. But the closest in price to compare to.
 I'm using the Kimber KCAG (1 meter) in my headphone system and like these more than the grovers. I bought the Bogdans to try because of all the good press. Hope they work out.


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## OakIris

Thanks for the info, DarkAngel. Guess we have to register at this site to contact Grover...


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## DarkAngel

*Hey Tom*
 Are these the Bogdans you are getting? (silver spirit reference aka BSSR)

BSSR 

 If so these replaced AZ Silver References in my system. HIRSCH has some also but I think he is loyal to his VD Nite/Master cables.
 AC1 also has some, but my "sources" tell me he is trying new high end cable that Victor at K Works has developed which he likes alot.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by OakIris _
*Thanks for the info, DarkAngel. Guess we have to register at this site to contact Grover... * 
 

Not needed, just press contact button at bottom of page, sends e-mail to:

webmaster@stevehoffman.tv

 Say you want to try Grover MkIII and they will forward this to Grover......he will respond in a couple of days according to forum members and tell you how to proceed.


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## tom hankins

DarkAngel, Thats the ones. This makes me feel even better about the purchase. Thanks.


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## kartik

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tom hankins _
* Better than anything I've had here at the time up to the 250.00 a pr. price. But not on the level of most of the cables I've owned above that price. They can hang with very good gear with out the feeling your cabling is holding you back. 
* 
 

Are these the Mk IIIs you mention here. I only ask because the A-gon ad is for the bargain price of $290. More than the max in your estimate wouldn't you say?


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## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*PM & Tom
 Don't tease us.......more info:

 -website, where to buy?
 -trail period?
 -photo of cable?

 I have never heard of these before, must be very new or very underground......the price I like very much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 PM
 Do you like these better vs old Silver Audio Appassionata ICs you had? * 
 

DA,
 Thanks for getting the pertinent "where to buy" info out there. I had forgot to include that in my review. There is a 30 day trial period so its a no brainer for those who want to try a great cable at a very affordable price.

 Besides the Appassionata, I had the Zu Varial (silver), which I rated above the Appassionata by far. I went to the Varial for a better balanced sound over the very silverish APPs. From there I have been using copper, but the new Grovers have many of the qualities I look for in my copper cables, plus the imaging and detail that is characteristic of silver. 

 Grover is a tube amp designer, who incorporates (or has incorporated) vintage parts in his components. The vintage RCA plugs he uses in his MK III IC must play a part in the sound he is after, as he is a perfectionist in his audio pursuits.


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## Xanadu777

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
* The vintage RCA plugs he uses in his MK III IC must play a part in the sound he is after, as he is a perfectionist in his audio pursuits. * 
 

A perfect example of low mass used in an interconnect. Thinner is indeed better for low voltage signals to pass through, obviously Grover knows that. While there are many beautiful terminations now, problem is the mass they incorporate and the prices to boot! Funny how a .19 termination can sound so good, eh? I'ts all about the mass...


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## tortie

Quote:


 _Originally posted by OakIris _
*Thanks for the info, DarkAngel. Guess we have to register at this site to contact Grover... * 
 

Actually you can contact Grover at:

 [groverhuffman@hotmail.com]


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## tom hankins

kartik, I'm talking about the original grovers which were 80.00 dollars shipped. I think the MKIII's are around the same price. Where are you seeing the grovers advertised for 290.00? 
 Anyway if you read my post again I was talking about having the different cables at the same time with the Grovers and they cost 3-4 times more than the grovers and I liked the grovers more. The grovers were 75.00 plus 5.00 shipping for brand new cables. When I got my pr. they also had either a 60 or 90 day trial period with them.


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## kartik

Sorry Tom,
 My mistake! I mistook the ads for the Bogdan Silvers for the Grovers. Please disregard the faux pas.


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## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
* HIRSCH has some also but I think he is loyal to his VD Nite/Master cables.
* 
 

The VD cables have a dimensionality that the BSSR can't match, IMO. Also, the BSSR is a bit leaner in the midrange. Not a lot, but the balance is definitely different. I use the BSSR with my Stax-007t/HE 60 setup. The source is not as good as the Creek CD53 (Rotel 955AX->Monarchy DIP->GW Labs upsampler -> modded ART DI/O -> SCE HRS Mk II before it gets to the amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). However, after burn-in, these cable acquired a very good sense of high end "air" that complements the electrostatic headphones nicely. Bass is well defined also.

 Besides, the coiled silver and the wood spacers make for a nice conversation piece


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## DarkAngel

I got e-mail response from Grover, Mk III interconnects are $75 for 1 meter pair plus $5 shipping per pair so $80 total, payment by check or money order, approx turnaround 2 weeks.

 As mentioned above his direct e-mail is:
groverhuffman@hotmail.com


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## DarkAngel

*Bumpies*
 I did order one pair of Grover Mk III to see if PM is on to something here, must keep the thread alive till they arrive.


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## DarkAngel

*Bumpies*
 Must keep alive till ICs arrive.


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## tortie

If anybody has fallen out of love with his grovers, please sell them to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Grover only recieves cheq payments and that is not possible for me because I live overseas. Will pay for additional shipment thru paypal.


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## pigmode

I have an Audio Note 3.1x non-upsampling - digital filterless player in the system now. It has blackgates, and must be left on 24/7, plus it takes 48 hr. to warmup from a cold start. Once I get a handle on its sound signature, I'll do a little cable swapping and possibly post some brief impressions (of the Grovers).


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## asdfeproiu9

I'm actually interested in the Audio Note 3.1x versus your Shigaraki DAC. Also, how flexible (or inflexible) are the Mk. III's?


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## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by asdfeproiu9 _
*I'm actually interested in the Audio Note 3.1x versus your Shigaraki DAC. Also, how flexible (or inflexible) are the Mk. III's? * 
 

The MK IIIs are medium flexible. 

 I posted a few comments on both digital sources at the source forum. I might post a longer impression at the earliest in a 4 to 6 weeks, as I need time to acquire a thorough understanding of the AN, then I might insert the Shigaraki for a comparison.

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=4


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## DarkAngel

Should get my Grovers next week...........can't expect too much from $75 ICs but we will see.


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## tomek

i've just written an email. i'm curious. if biggie says it's good, it's good. that's my new motto.

 is it true that i can't pay with paypal or credit card?

 argh argh!


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## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tomek _
*i've just written an email. i'm curious. if biggie says it's good, it's good. that's my new motto.

 is it true that i can't pay with paypal or credit card?

 argh argh! * 
 

Are you that impatient?


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## tomek

no, i'm just in canada.


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## tortie

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tomek _
*
 is it true that i can't pay with paypal or credit card?

* 
 

You cant. Checks only.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tomek _
*no, i'm just in canada. * 
 

I sent a postal money order..

 Biggie.


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## DarkAngel

*Update*
 Grover III's have arrived, took right around 2 weeks as promised.
 Cable is lightweight and flexible, RCA's are small friction fit units that are only 2/3 as deep as normal RCA, shrink tubing has Grover's signature and cable jacket is same color as Clou Blue.
 Will post detailed photos soon.

 Breaking these in now along with new giant killer digital cable Audiovox HDVX in system 2.


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## DarkAngel

Grovers breaking in as well as two digital cables:
 -Audiovox HDVX
 -Bogdan Silver Spirit (custom made digital cable)

 Too busy to yank cables out for proper photo session, but here are some hand held shots with flash, more info to come.

Photo 1 
 Grover Mk III plugged into BC Dac 1.1 in system two, very lightweight and flexible, cool blue color......notice Grover's signature on shrink tubing, he he. Also notice how small in mass the RCAs are which I'm sure are part of the design approach.

Photo 2 
 Different shot of Grovers, notice custom made 4ft Bogdan Silver Spirit digital cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Photo 3 
 Main system, BC Dac 2 has both glass toslink and Audiovox HDVX digital cables hooked up.


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## tom hankins

Keep us up the progress of the Bogdan digital cable. I need another digital cable with the XLR connectors on it. I am liking the BSSR. I am going to get a balanced pr. of them to go with my balanced headphone amp in when it is finished.


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## pigmode

DA?


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*DA? * 
 

Patience grasshopper.............I have several cables to analyze. 

 Did you see rave review of Signal Cable Analog Two ICs at Stereotimes:
Signal 

 I can tell you this, The Grover III is better overall vs Signal Analog Two plus more flexible and cooler looking.

 The Grover Mk III will not replace my beloved Bogdan Silver Spirits however (as you would only expect since Bogdan SSR costs much more and previously beat out highly rated AZ Silver Reference ICs for me)


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## mkyy

I wonder anyone here tried the Grover speaker cables?


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## AC1

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Grovers breaking in as well as two digital cables:
 -Audiovox HDVX
 -Bogdan Silver Spirit (custom made digital cable)
* 
 

Hi DA,

 I almost forgot about the Bogdans as a digital cable since I have been using BNCs and was using the Bogdans as my ICs. But since I replaced my ICs, they are now free to be experimented with. I have the brother to the HDVX the x60s and it might be interesting to see how those two compare. 
 I also have a Bel Canto 1.1 coming just for experimentation and maybe using it for other misc digital needs I may have.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by AC1 _
*Hi DA,
 I almost forgot about the Bogdans as a digital cable since I have been using BNCs and was using the Bogdans as my ICs. But since I replaced my ICs, they are now free to be experimented with. I have the brother to the HDVX the x60s and it might be interesting to see how those two compare. 
 I also have a Bel Canto 1.1 coming just for experimentation and maybe using it for other misc digital needs I may have. * 
 

AC1........my "sources" tell me you have tried the latest K-Works ICs and really like them. I got an e-mail asking if I wanted to try some a while ago.

 BTW, Bel Canto Dac does not use BNC connectors. Also HDVX digital cable is very impressive for $100 retail, think I like it more than glass toslinks (which previously were better than AZ Mc2 etc) I am just beginning to seriously evaluate Bogdan SSR as digital cable even though I had it for long time now.


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## AC1

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*AC1........my "sources" tell me you have tried the latest K-Works ICs and really like them. I got an e-mail asking if I wanted to try some a while ago.

 BTW, Bel Canto Dac does not use BNC connectors. Also HDVX digital cable is very impressive for $100 retail, think I like it more than glass toslinks (which previously were better than AZ Mc2 etc) I am just beginning to seriously evaluate Bogdan SSR as digital cable even though I had it for long time now. * 
 

Yes, I did try them out and ended getting a prototype pair he sent me (there were two versions, one silver, one copper). It was a very ear opening experience to use them since it showed how much dynamics and detail the Bogdans were holding back, I was pretty much stunned when I used them. The difference is large enough where it is very difficult to go back to the Bogdans. 
 His final version is suppose to be even better, where they might be in sense good value for what they are competing against, but is still a lot of money for most people to put into a cable. 

 My transport (and DAC) was using bncs but since it is in for repair, I've had to substitute. The x60 does come with those adapters which makes for easy subing which is good. 
 For the Bel Canto, it's good for comparing the Bogdans, but the x60 will have to get adpaters for both sides now since my transport is not bnc anymore. So far I have had to use a RS rca to bnc adapter to use with the DI/O and the Bogdans where the results are interesting, but still really early to say anything about.


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## grover

Its so great to see you guys discover my cables. I have a new silver reference cable that I would like dark angel to sample, with my compliments. Dark Angel if you would contact me at my hot mail I'll send you a pair. I think you will like them. Grover


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Patience grasshopper.............I have several cables to analyze. 

 Did you see rave review of Signal Cable Analog Two ICs at Stereotimes:
Signal 

 I can tell you this, The Grover III is better overall vs Signal Analog Two plus more flexible and cooler looking.

 The Grover Mk III will not replace my beloved Bogdan Silver Spirits however (as you would only expect since Bogdan SSR costs much more and previously beat out highly rated AZ Silver Reference ICs for me) * 
 

Well I believe I am going to join PM in being big fan of Grover Mk III ICs. If I didn't know these were silver cables I would have assumed they were copper because they have very relaxed natural presentation, yet have a delicate transparency and speed that usually eludes copper cables. They do a great job of providing fine detail retreaval and dynamic contrasts without losing the relaxed feeling real music has which makes extended listening enjoyable.

 They remind me closest of AZ Silver Ref which was the first silver IC I remember that was this natural and relaxed sounding. I no longer have those ICs on hand for direct comparison (they were beat out by Bogdan Silver Spirits and sold) but I suspect the Grover Mk III are close in overall performance.

 The other thing I really like is how lightweight and flexible Grover Mk III are, bulky stiff heavy cables are a real drag for me especially since I sometimes use bearing isolation devices.

 I would rate the Mk III overall superior to HomeGrown Silver Lace,
 HT ProSilway II, Silver Audio Hyacinth, Kimber Silver Streak to mention some silver cables I have used extensively in the past, quite an accomplishment since these sell for $75 1m pair. Some of these are equally as detailed as Mk III but nowhere near as natural or full sounding which is just as important. I have placed an order for additional Grover Mk III ICs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


 Its so great to see you guys discover my cables. I have a new silver reference cable that I would like dark angel to sample, with my compliments. Dark Angel if you would contact me at my hot mail I'll send you a pair. I think you will like them. Grover 
 

Grover that is fine by me, send them along and I will give them a listen, always willing to help out individuals selling great products at very reasonable prices.

*BTW major props to PigMode* 
 for bringing these great cables to our attention.


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## pigmode

That's great DA, I've always thought that though we have very different systems, our audio goals/ conclusions were somewhat similar.

 Sometime in the future I should be recieving a pair of MK 4 ICs and Grover speaker wires as well. I'm not sure if the MK 4 ICs are the same as the "new silver reference cable" that DA will be getting, but I can shed a little light on the speaker wires. The terminatins are pure unsoldered silver and I believe they are of a different geometry than the speaker wire themselves. Should be interesting...not to mention affordable. Grover is a perfectionist that seems bent on taking silver to heretofor new undefined levels of sound quality.


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## tomek

can anyone compare these to the headphile standard silver cables?


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## Gord SW Ont

DarkAngel,

 I've been using the HGA Silver Lace ever since you recommended them many moons ago. Have tried Kimber PBJ and Outlaws (to alleviate an RFI problem) so you can see I'm not a "cable guy". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Have been very pleased with the Laces but this being head-fi and all ... I just can't seem to stop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your note above regarding the Grover III (IV???) versus several pretty good mid level cables intrigues me. How do you think they'd sound in my system - Shanling CD S-100 MK II --> HGA Silver Lace --> Corda HA-1/Gilmore V1/ Emmeline HR-2 --> Senn HD600+Cardas/Sony CD3000???

 Thanks ... Gord SW Ont.


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## DarkAngel

*Hey Gord,*
 I do at least 85% of listening with full stereo vs headphones, which means issues of soundstaging are very important to me as well as having fine detail and natural full bodied sound.....these are exactly the areas where Grover Mk III edges out similar cables (and even much higher priced ones)

 I think you would find the Grover Mk III slightly superior to HG Silver Lace especially when using Sony 3000 headphone which have ultra revealing treble detail. The Silver Lace is still a great cable at that price level, and is very flexible, but many great new cables have appeared in last couple years.......the bar has been raised.

 If you contact Grover at e-mail posted earlier in this thread I think he still offers generous 60 day trail period........for $75 a pair I think it is no loose situation. Also the Silver Laces still sell very well at Audiogon, you may actually make profit by changing cables. 

 Shanling is one beautiful CDP!


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## Gord SW Ont

DarkAngel,

 Thanks for the quick reply ... I appreciate it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW note that the Shanling is an S100 (not T100 unfortunately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) However it is a MK II which makes it a little better than it could be! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again ... Gord SW Ont.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Gord I have a cable you might be interested in trying. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think you might like it.. I sent it out to Zanth but it will be back soon.

 Biggie.


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## Gord SW Ont

Hi Biggie!

 Nice to hear from you again.

 Any details on the cable you mentioned? As you know I haven't been keeping up all that much on the cable (or power) side of things but Idon't want to ignore it completely so I'm feeling my way carefully.

 Any advice you can give me would be appreciated as always. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for dropping in ... Gord SW Ont.


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## stryker

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Hey Gord,
 If you contact Grover at e-mail posted earlier in this thread I think he still offers generous 60 day trail period........for $75 a pair I think it is no loose situation. * 
 

I contacted Grover and he sent me an email on the Silver Reference cables which are $125 for 1M length. Any word on this design? He stated it was superior to the III. I think I may just go ahead and get that one since, if true, it would seem to be a very good value. 

 I encouraged him to write up some specific descriptions on these cables as an attachment or include it in his emails as we're not talking a lot of information here. It would be nice to have more literature on it.


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## Gopher

Quote:


 _Originally posted by stryker _
*I contacted Grover and he sent me an email on the Silver Reference cables which are $125 for 1M length. Any word on this design? He stated it was superior to the III. I think I may just go ahead and get that one since, if true, it would seem to be a very good value. * 
 

I too contacted Grover, and his words to me were that his Silver Reference cables "KILL" his other cables--I sent out the money for a pair yesterday. 

 Guess its time to try silver again in the two channel rig. Ideally I'll like these better then the AZ Silver References I was thinking of purchasing, and be able to sell off the Matrix Refs I've got in my system now... put a little cash in the pocket.

 I'll post opinions when they come.


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## tom hankins

DarkAngel, If you get a chance could you PM me with some thoughts about the Reference cable from Grover as compared to the BSSR. I'm going to need a pr. of balanced cables before the new amp arives and the new grovers with XLR's are around half the price of the balanced BSSR's. Early impressions are welcome. Thanks alot for info in advance. Sorry if I'm out of line asking this.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tom hankins _
*DarkAngel, If you get a chance could you PM me with some thoughts about the Reference cable from Grover as compared to the BSSR. I'm going to need a pr. of balanced cables before the new amp arives and the new grovers with XLR's are around half the price of the balanced BSSR's. Early impressions are welcome. Thanks alot for info in advance. Sorry if I'm out of line asking this. * 
 

I will be sure and post photos and impressions of Grovers new Silver Reference cables. Your wallet has just reminded you that the balanced version of Bogdan SSR is $100 more than RCA, he he. 

 If these are as good as Grover says they will do head on battle in my reference 2 channel system vs Bogdan SSR. I was thrilled when much cheaper Bogdans dethroned the $1,000 AZ Silver Refs and put money back in my wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not sure if Grover charges more for balanced vs RCA connections?


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## tom hankins

stryker posted 125.00 for the reference 1 meter and I emailed grover and the price of the reference balanced is 200.00. (1 meter also)
 Yes, If the reference are as good or better than the BSSR I will save 200.00. That will almost cover the cost of the balanced Zu cable for the 650's. Thats the kind of math I like.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

I may be getting something sent in the mail. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Impressions to follow.

 Biggie.


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## tom hankins

Anyone got the Silver reference yet??


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## ServinginEcuador

Quote:


 _Originally posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ _
* Impressions to follow.* 
 

Biggie,

 Makes sure to include how they compare to the Aural Thrills ICs you got.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tom hankins _
*Anyone got the Silver reference yet?? * 
 

Nothing yet, but should be in next few days. 

 I will post photos when they arrive since it will be week or so after that before they are broken in and listening sessions can be started. Then some impressions will be discussed.


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## tom hankins

Thanks DA


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Gord SW Ont _
*Hi Biggie!

 Nice to hear from you again.

 Any details on the cable you mentioned? As you know I haven't been keeping up all that much on the cable (or power) side of things but Idon't want to ignore it completely so I'm feeling my way carefully.

 Any advice you can give me would be appreciated as always. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks for dropping in ... Gord SW Ont. * 
 

You should drop by the Waterloo head-fi meet on March 6th and try out the new grovers and my active interconnects. Should be fun. The active interconnects do some really neat things but I think that Grover must have golden ears so who knows. ^^

 To SIE: i'll post some comparisons of the two cables and also the music timbre gold ic's as well.

 Biggie.


----------



## ServinginEcuador

Quote:


 _Originally posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ _
*To SIE: i'll post some comparisons of the two cables and also the music timbre gold ic's as well.

 Biggie. * 
 

Biggie,

 I didn't know you got the Music Timbres. It'll be nice to hear how all three of these cables match up against each other. I personally liked the Music Timbres better than the Aural Thrills, but that was mostly due to a loss in dynamics using the ATs. With you system it might not make any difference. I look forward to hearing about these cables.


----------



## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Quote:


 _Originally posted by ServinginEcuador _
*Biggie,

 I didn't know you got the Music Timbres. It'll be nice to hear how all three of these cables match up against each other. I personally liked the Music Timbres better than the Aural Thrills, but that was mostly due to a loss in dynamics using the ATs. With you system it might not make any difference. I look forward to hearing about these cables. * 
 

In my system I found the aural thrill cables to have similar flavour/speed/detail as the music timbres but with a much lowered noise floor, blacker backgrounds and larger soundstage. I think the aural thrills cable has more bass as well and I couldn't detect any difference in dynamics. This isn't suprising since both cables you that tri-alloy wire. And I'm just borrowing the music timbres. 

 The grover mk II's I used to own were more neutral then either of these cables. I was never able to head to head them with the music timbres so I can't give any more comparisons between the two. They are both great cables..

 Biggie.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Grover Silver Reference ICs arrived today* 
 They look just like the Mk III cables, with some very minor differences. The red RCA shrink tube is now signed "Grover SR" and the RCA connectors are just slightly larger although similar looking to MK III.

 Will post some pix tomorrow at lunch, then hook them up in system 2 for some break-in time.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Pix for the Peeps* 
 Got some photos of Grover Mk III and Silver Reference:

Mk III 

SR 

Mk III & SR 

 RCA connectors are slightly different, shrink tubing has different wording.


----------



## Gopher

Lucky dog! Grover contacted me today to let me know he was working on mine and that it would be here by early next week. I'm REALLY interested, as are all of us, to hear your first impressions.


----------



## DarkAngel

Gopher.........
 Your wallet must be going into cardiac shock soon:
 new speakers
 new amp
 new turntable (shipping damaged)


----------



## Gopher

new digital source
 new isolation bearings
 new speaker stands

 please help me...


----------



## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Who needs breakin time, give us some impressions! 

 Biggie.


----------



## tom hankins

DA, Your killing me.


----------



## Gopher

Indeed he is! 

 Sigh... oh well, mine will be here tomorrow (hopefully). I'll post some out of the mailbox impressiosn if I get a chance.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tom hankins _
*DA, Your killing me. * 
 

Hey........I'm working on it, takes time to properly break-in cables and then more time to compare to other cables over several listening sessions, probably several more days. I am careful not to make premature judgements or hyped statements about cables, many people tend to exaggerate and highlight cable differences which are actually quite subtle.......especially cables they just spent mucho dollars on, he he.

 If you want to know is Grover Silver Reference "superior" to Bogdan SSR............I would say no at this point. Still trying to get handle on differences between Grover Silver Reference and Mk III
 and where they rank with other cables.

 Anyone else get thier Grover SR cables?


----------



## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Got mine today. They sound good...

 Biggie.


----------



## DarkAngel

Well after 1 week the Grover SR are fully broken in now.

 From photos I posted above you could see that RCAs are slightly different, also after closer examination and switching cables a couple times I noticed the SR cables have slightly oval cross section vs the round Mk III......also the SR RCAs grip tighter and require some effort to get on/off, a light coat of ProGold G5 helped make this easier.

 As you might expect the Grover SR are slightly better all around vs Mk III. Better at uncovering fine detail which also results in larger more defined 3D soundstage. The Mk III was already very good so not much room to make any "dramatic" improvements here without messing up tonality etc.......SR makes an already great cable a little better for not much more money, many cables costing much more are nowhere near as balanced or natural sounding. I already posted earlier here that I felt the Mk III was better overall for me vs:
 HG Silver Lace
 HT ProSilway II
 Silver Audio Hyacinth
 Kimber Silver Streak

 After switching a couple times the Mk III might be a "touch" warmer or have a slight golden glow to the sound.......but this is just very minor difference and may just be the result of being less resolving of fine detail. If your system is a bit bright you may prefer the Mk III.

 The thing I really like about both Grovers is the relaxed natural way they play music, never sounding strained. This is always the "paradox" for the audiophile, how to increase resolution but retain a full natural relaxed sound that invites extended listening.
 I value this more than anything..........full natural balanced sound is much more important to me than ultimate detail resolution, Grovers do a great job of doing both effectively. Also I love cables that are lightweight and flexible which the Grovers are, making it simple to use with all gear and even sensitive bearing isolation devices.

 Again many thanks to PM for alerting us to these cables which offer tremendous performance at such a low price.


----------



## Gopher

Thanks DA,

 I realize it's been some time now since you've owned them, but do you have any opinion how the SR would fair against the AZ Silver Refs? 
 My pair got delayed a week and I'm going on spring break saturday, so I've still got about 14 days before I'll be able to give 'em a listen.... Getting curious though.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Gopher _
*Thanks DA,
 I realize it's been some time now since you've owned them, but do you have any opinion how the SR would fair against the AZ Silver Refs? 
 My pair got delayed a week and I'm going on spring break saturday, so I've still got about 14 days before I'll be able to give 'em a listen.... Getting curious though. * 
 

Although I've owned AZ SR for @2yrs don't currently own them and can't do direct comparison.........also remember the AZ is $1,000 set of ICs. I would not say that Grover SR is superior, but it is very close and they both actually have similar overall sound........very relaxed naturally presented detail that sounded very musical. When I first got the AZ SR they were the first "silver" ICs that ever really sounded like natural full bodied music to me, since then I have found a few others like Grovers & Bogdans.

 Grovers are the cheapest "silver" ICs I have heard that are really musical like AZ SR.


----------



## NotoriousBIG_PJ

These cables give a very truthful presentation. They are neutral and transparent with great focus and a nice 3-d stage. A real bargain at their price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Biggie.


----------



## Hirsch

Hmm... I'm putting a two channel speaker setup back together, and the Grovers look like an interesting cable to do it with, if the speaker cable is as good as the interconnects. 

 This system is going to be a stab from the past if it flies. Electrocompaniet Signature amp and Pre I preamp, Celestion SL600's and Ariston RD11s table, Sonus Formula IV unipivot arm, Monster Alpha Genesis MC cartridge (The Pre I can only do MC cartridges without modification, which I'm not bothering with). No component less than twenty years old except the cables. If the Grovers can sing, this is going to be good. (I may eventually hang a digital source and a headphone amp on this thing).


----------



## DarkAngel

If there are good cables to be had Hirsch is never far behind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have not yet heard the Grover SR speaker cables but if they sound as good and are as reasonably priced as SR ICs they will be a big winner........maybe PM has these now?

 I will give a final 2 week asessment of Grover's SR ICs next week,
 if anything they are even better than I originally thought after 1st week......I am impressed and may be purchasing additional cables.

 BTW, anyone else get their SR cables?


----------



## kartik

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Hirsch _
*Hmm... I'm putting a two channel speaker setup back together, and the Grovers look like an interesting cable to do it with, if the speaker cable is as good as the interconnects. 

 This system is going to be a stab from the past if it flies. Electrocompaniet Signature amp and Pre I preamp, Celestion SL600's and Ariston RD11s table, Sonus Formula IV unipivot arm, Monster Alpha Genesis MC cartridge (The Pre I can only do MC cartridges without modification, which I'm not bothering with). No component less than twenty years old except the cables. If the Grovers can sing, this is going to be good. (I may eventually hang a digital source and a headphone amp on this thing). * 
 

Without trying to sound too much like scratched vinyl, try the Headphile XRS. They are ideally suited for an analog setup as assessed by at least two other headfiers, (Stuartr and Lan). Cheap too. ($150/M)


----------



## Gopher

I'm looking forward to getting back to school and giving these cables a good listening to. My pair should be sitting in my mailbox waiting for me next week when I return.

 If these sound as good as I'm hoping they will I might run them from my turntable (likely a scout) to phono (likely a grado ph-1) to my inputs... hmm, something ironic about buying none stop for weeks on end yet having only a tentative system.


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Gopher _
*I'm looking forward to getting back to school and giving these cables a good listening to. My pair should be sitting in my mailbox waiting for me next week when I return.

 If these sound as good as I'm hoping they will I might run them from my turntable (likely a scout) to phono (likely a grado ph-1) to my inputs... hmm, something ironic about buying none stop for weeks on end yet having only a tentative system. * 
 

There is a $30 shielding mod that Grover recommends for use with phono cables. The signal is apparently small enough that lack of shielding can be an issue running as a phono cable.


----------



## Gopher

hmm, I'll likely need a second one anyhow... now that my phonostage won't be integrated into my preamp and I'll have to pass through. Is shielding as big a factor going from the phono preamp to my integrated?

 Fred


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Gopher _
* Is shielding as big a factor going from the phono preamp to my integrated? * 
 

No, that's operating at line level. The really small signal is between the cartridge and the phono amp.


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*If there are good cables to be had Hirsch is never far behind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have not yet heard the Grover SR speaker cables but if they sound as good and are as reasonably priced as SR ICs they will be a big winner........maybe PM has these now?

 I will give a final 2 week asessment of Grover's SR ICs next week,
 if anything they are even better than I originally thought after 1st week......I am impressed and may be purchasing additional cables.

 BTW, anyone else get their SR cables? * 
 

I am burning in my Reference speakers cables right now, and they do need burning in. They sounded light right out of the box but are filling in nicely.

 Will check in later...


----------



## Gopher

*cough*cable-whore*cough


----------



## pigmode

Gopher,
 If you are refering to me, no need for the coughs. I am an unrepentant whore in all aspects of life, audio being just a teeny tiny part of the whole. You have no idea... 

 Anyone with anything else to say? Say it.


----------



## Gopher

hahaha!

 great retort! looking forward to your impressions. It would be great to "simplify" my system with less expensive cabling. 

 Fred

 P.S. That was kind of the pot calling the kettle black, I'm a slave to this hobby as well


----------



## DarkAngel

*Anyone have some impressions to report on your Grover cables?*

 I am going to get some Grover SR speaker cables to try out, the SR interconnect has passed the long term test and I will have to order another pair from Grover very soon, my overall impression is even more favorable than after just one week.

 I am still shaking my head how a $125 cable can sound so close to a very good silver IC like $1,000 AZ Silver Reference, this is a gift from the audio gods to the less than affluent audiophile. 

 I mentioned previously that the Grover SR had a natural fullness and body that eludes all but the very best silver cables, while at the same time revealing fine detail and spatial info that eludes almost all copper cables at any price. These cables allow you to see deep into a recording with a natural presentation that is very non fatigueing and invite extended listening sessions........hard to even try to analyze, you just want to listen to the music.

 Like most "normal" people I listen to mostly non audiophile approved CDs........they call it rock music. The Grovers pull off the delicate balance (which many cables fail) of revealing more detail without messing up tonal balance or increasing treble glare/grain, I can't tell you how many silver cables in the past would increase deatil but sound painfully bleached, thin, bright, and just not natural or musical.


 I also love how lightweight and flexible these are which is a big plus in my book. Anyway interested if anyone else wants to report on Grover ICs or speaker cables.


----------



## Hirsch

Hmm... My Grover speaker cables and interconnects are supposed to ship next week. I'm planning to use these in my speaker setup (Ariston table, Sonus Formula IV arm, Electrocompaniet Pre I preamp and Signature amplifier, Celestion SL600 speakers). I've finally got all of that gear repaired and running, and just need decent cables to hook it together. Soon, soon...

 I should probably try and figure out a digital source for that rig, but I'm in no hurry right now.


----------



## pigmode

The Grover speaker cables need time to burn-in--they sound like crap right out of the box. These cables are really something special. They are smooth like the ICs and expand a bit in soundstaging and imaging, but there is MORE.

 My past cables are the AZ satori, a cable known for great bass and mids response. The Grover's have brought out an amazing amount of midrange to upper bass detail. There is more depth and height as well. I do not here use the term "amazing" with indiscrimination. Think about it--midrange and upper bass detail.

 With these cables, you can see the bare wire in its teflon tubing and the air dielectric. I'll leave it at that and let DA give a more expert description. The bare wire is of a light gauge, and the termination is a bigger gauge solid malleable silver wire. There are no factory made bananas or what-have-you with these cables. Just silver from end to end. Simple, effective, and so logical, and yet so rare. As I've said before, Grover is a perfectionist, but wants to produce high quality stuff that we all can afford.


----------



## Gopher

Pigmode,

 Thanks a mill for the impressions on the Groover speaker cables. I'm strongly considering moving to these and the Acoutic Zen reference made things a bit clearer. Right now I'm using AZ Hologram Bi-Wires which I really love, but my speakers are not bi-wirable and I think the money I could make selling them/going to a DIY cable would be better allocated elsewhere (ie. isolation for my analog setup).

 I'm also considering Bogdan's SSRs for speaker cable, but was cautioned to wait a week on my purchase for them to release some new models.

 DA, 

 I also have the silver refs, yes.

 Right now they're on my Median 508 and I am liking them quite a bit. It's hard to say they are an upgrade when you've grown used to a certain sound, but they certainly do some things better. The balance of the grovers seems MUCH more accurate, as my Acoutic Zen Matrix references are a bit bottom heavy. I also really liked the AZ's lush midrange, but the cleaner, neutral presentation of the grovers is really growing on me. The resolution/detail the grovers are able to convey is undeniably superior to the Acoustic Zens, but the zens were never claimed to be uber detailed. 

 In the end, I think a lot of it comes down to system synergy. I know my AZ's did a wonderful job when outfitted with my Philips 963SA. It was a very detailed source, lacking on the bottom end and a tad thin in the midrange and the AZs synergized very well, and made the presentation much more musical. I suspect the grovers wouldn't have done quite as good a job as they are more honest cables... just sort of letting your source through.

 One thing is for sure... at $125 they are a steal. I think I'm goning to run the pair I have from my PH-1 to my Unico and have grover build me a phono shielded version to run from my scout and probably check out Bogdan for my meridian.

 Soo many variables, so little time


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Gopher _
*

 Soo many variables, so little time * 
 

Yeah, at some point its just nice to stop and listen to the music. Its always good.

 I'll get back to you after I cross the pond.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Gopher*
 I also used to own some AZ Matrix ICs (copper) (PM had some also as I recall) and they sounded definitely on the warm side of neutral and less detailed than AZ Silver Ref ICs in my systems..............for me the Grover SR is superior cable to AZ Matrix (unless you are using cable as a "tone control" for bright system) and really competes head on with AZ Silver Reference at a fraction of the cost. 

 Be sure and wait a week or so with Grover SR, they just seem to get better and better in my case. Once the Grovers have fully opened up the Matrix will sound opaque and heavy compared to the natural balanced detail of Grover SR.

*PM*
 Sounds like a winner with the Grover SR speaker cables, will have some soon to check out myself..........the price is amazing if they can deliver the goods like the ICs.


----------



## Gopher

DA,

 They seem to be settled and have over a hundred hours on them. I would agree with your assemesment that, overall, the Grovers are better cables, but was merely trying to convey the subjective nature of such matter. I have found myself growing to appareciate the neutrality of the groovers, but wanted to highlight that in certain circumstances (as you pointed out when you mentioned tuning) the warmer/softer sound may be favored. 

 With my current source, the Meridian 508, the player's sexy presentation is allowed to flow through with little added distortion and I'm loving it. With certain other sources (ie colder/analyitical ones) the Matrix may provide a more favorable overall presentation.

 None the less, in my system--they are golden! (...er, silver)


----------



## Hirsch

I just received a mess o' Grover SR's (three sets of interconnects and a set of speaker cables). Will report after some burn-in.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Hirsch _
*I just received a mess o' Grover SR's (three sets of interconnects and a set of speaker cables). Will report after some burn-in. * 
 

Hirsch doesn't "mess" around with gradual approach, go for the gusto! How old is the Electrocompaniet preamp/amp set you have? Rated power? You will need good audio rack and speakers stands now, he he.

 Still waiting for my Grover SR speaker cables to arrive.


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Hirsch doesn't "mess" around with gradual approach, go for the gusto! How old is the Electrocompaniet preamp/amp set you have? Rated power? You will need good audio rack and speakers stands now, he he. * 
 

The preamp is the Pre I. IIRC from around 1985/86. Odd preamp. Always "on", as it runs very warm even with the "power switch" off. The "power" switch actually only controls the outputs to the power amp. You can use the preamp as a phono stage, without even turning it on, as the phono stage and tape outputs are always on. The power amp is the Limited Anniversary Edition amp (aka Signature amp). Also mid 80's. I think it's rated around 75 wpc, but it's got a huge amount of headroom. The preamp is a former Stereophile Class A rig, but they never rated the amp (which still has cult status to this day. I'll bet I could get decent money for one in perfect working condition). The setup actually has slightly more gain than my Celestion SL600's really want, and those speakers can devour power. I've got the Celestion speaker stands, but could use a better audio rack. I've got my analog source locked in, pretty much, but am still seeking the digital source I want to use with this. I may grab a new player for my home theater, and move the Sony 9000ES over to this for two-channel CD and SACD playback.

 TDS Passive Audiophile and SCE Harmonic Enhancer on hand for playing around as things come together.

 Initial Grover impression: interesting! I can see a lot of potential in this cable. NIce detailing, and potentially very good bass (hasn't locked in yet). Burn-in will take a bit, as this isn't where I do most of my listening (yet, anyway).


----------



## elnero

Does anyone know if the MK III's are still available? I emailed Grover regarding pricing but he only quoted the SR's.


----------



## Demolition

Quote:


 _Originally posted by elnero _
*Does anyone know if the MK III's are still available? I emailed Grover regarding pricing but he only quoted the SR's. * 
 

 I was quoted only the SR prices, as well. However, I'm led to believe that the Mk IIIs are still available because Grover implicitly steered me away from them. I suppose it's understandable that Grover is actively promoting the SRs because they are his newest top-end product. He merely wants more people to use them and provide feedback.

 By the way, has anybody tried Grover's SR shielded phono ICs? Just curious to know if anybody has impressions to share.

 D.


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Demolition _
*By the way, has anybody tried Grover's SR shielded phono ICs? Just curious to know if anybody has impressions to share.

 D. * 
 

One of my Grovers is the shielded phono, but for the time being it's burning in with a cdp.


----------



## Gopher

I've got a shielded phono that should be arriving any day now.

 I suspect it will perform similarly, but will post a brief comparission when it arrives.


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 *Gopher
 I also used to own some AZ Matrix ICs (copper) (PM had some also as I recall) and they sounded definitely on the warm side of neutral and less detailed than AZ Silver Ref ICs in my systems..............for me the Grover SR is superior cable to AZ Matrix (unless you are using cable as a "tone control" for bright system) and really competes head on with AZ Silver Reference at a fraction of the cost.

* 
 

Its been a while. I had the first ver. of the Matrix, and then had it fatory upgraded to the next ver. (MK II, I think). Its a good copper cable, but the Luminois Audio Ref. is more natural and extended over the AZ.

 For my system, what the Grover has over the Luminous Audio is transparency and imaging, the latter being a dramatic improvement.


----------



## ipodstudio

Hirsch,
 what made you change out the Bogdans?


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by ipodstudio _
*Hirsch,
 what made you change out the Bogdans? * 
 

I didn't. The Bogdan's are quite happy with my VPI Scout setup that feeds my Stax amp. The Grovers are going into a speaker setup I'm reassembling.


----------



## ipodstudio

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Hirsch _
*I didn't. The Bogdan's are quite happy with my VPI Scout setup that feeds my Stax amp. The Grovers are going into a speaker setup I'm reassembling. * 
 

Oh, OK. So you still happily recommend them, then?


----------



## DarkAngel

The Grover SR speaker cables have arrived will post pictures tomorrow


----------



## Gopher

Bogdan SR? Do you mean the Grovers DA? or did Ben finish up his new products?


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Gopher _
*Bogdan SR? Do you mean the Grovers DA? or did Ben finish up his new products? * 
 

Opps.......meant Grover SR.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Grover Silver Reference Speaker Cables* 

photo 1 

photo 2 

 Here is what the Grover SR speaker cables physically look like. As you can see cables are lightweight and very flexible. I wasn't sure if I would like the single bare silver wire termination, but actually it works great. You can also bend wire to 45, 90 degrees etc if you need to making this very versatile option. Most gear will have small hole in binding post (5 way ) making Grover SR cable hook up a snap.......you could also form a "J" hook with wire if you want since there plenty to work with

 Can't say too much as cables are breaking in right now, but stone cold right out of the box these sound as good as any speaker cable I have ever had in my system........it can only get better from here, very excited so far.

 Interesting since in PM's system they needed time to break-in, I use all Musical Fidelity SS and perhaps have better synergy right from the start........will report more after several days.


----------



## Gopher

Awesome DA! 

 Your first brief impression (that they're as good cold as anything you've heard) has me thrilled as I too will be using them on VR-1s too. They look pretty attractive as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 One suggestion: I think it's time we start a new thread.


----------



## Hirsch

I've got amp troubles again, but in the brief period it was working, the Grover SR speaker cables impressed me. To paraphrase the immortal words of Bullwinkle:

 "No doubt about it. I've got to get a new amp."


----------



## DarkAngel

OK brief update even though full break-in not complete yet, the Grover Silver Reference overall are the best speaker cables I have ever had in my system, prefer them to:

 Analysis Plus Silver 
 AP Solo Crystal
 AP Oval 9
 AZ Satori
 Bogdan Silver Prince
 Audioquest Argent
 AQ Forest
 Kimber 8TC
 Harmonic Tech Pro 9

 I have not had as many speakers cables through my system as ICs and obviously don't own all those now, but my current cables were the best of that group and Grover SR surpassed them. For under $200 for 8ft pair they are off the charts in performance/price ratio.......more in a few days.

 BTW Grover told me he recommends just running silver wire termination straight through center hole in binding post, I have decided for a couple reasons that I prefer forming open " hook" with silver wire and place around binding post then tighten, I believe you are getting larger & better contact area with silver wire this way.

*PM*
 Any more observations after living with cables for awhile?


----------



## Gopher

Mine arrived today as well. I spent about two hours with them but had to leave the apt for the evening (didn't know they'd arrive today and made plans with the gf... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and wont be returning till tomorrow.

 Probably for the best as they, along with some phonoshielded grover ICs will have the benefit of burning in all night to Prodigy's Fat of the Land until I return. 

 First impressions were very favorable. I concur with DA that these cables represent a tremendous value. I was a bit worried about going with as much silver in my system as I am, but am VERY pleased with the results. 

 The grovers have amazing resolution and present subtlies in the music I listened to I'd previously overlooked. The sound stage these things throw is both deep and wide. Very convincing and it really adds to the excitement of listening. I did note some harshness in the upper midrange, but am not sure wether the cables are just displaying deficiences I'd previously overlooked in the recording. Also, decay seems a touch off--I detected a tad of silibance in Alisson Krauss + Union Station's New Favorite (particularly in title track). It's very mild and I'm optomistic it will disolve with break in.

 I'm very pleased with these cables and even at this early stage do NOT feel it was a downgrade from the $1200 Acoustic ZAen Bi-wire I was previously using.

 Also, lets start a new thread for this discussion guys. This Grover thread has discussed 4 seperate cables now.


 NOTE: Will edit for spelling/grammar tomorrow.


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*OK brief update even though full break-in not complete yet, the Grover Silver Reference overall are the best speaker cables I have ever had in my system, prefer them to:

 Analysis Plus Silver 
 AP Solo Crystal
 AP Oval 9
 AZ Satori
 Bogdan Silver Prince
 Audioquest Argent
 AQ Forest
 Kimber 8TC
 Harmonic Tech Pro 9

 I have not had as many speakers cables through my system as ICs and obviously don't own all those now, but my current cables were the best of that group and Grover SR surpassed them. For under $200 for 8ft pair they are off the charts in performance/price ratio.......more in a few days.

 BTW Grover told me he recommends just running silver wire termination straight through center hole in binding post, I have decided for a couple reasons that I prefer forming open " hook" with silver wire and place around binding post then tighten, I believe you are getting larger & better contact area with silver wire this way.

PM
 Any more observations after living with cables for awhile? * 
 

DA,
 I've been away from my system for a few weeks. Will be back with a few comments later this weekend. I still have not previewed the SR ICs. 

 BTW, which were your last speaker cables? I have to admit, your positive reaction to these cables has me wondering about the overall sound signature of your system, as we seem to have very different setups. I think this speaks positively for the Grovers. 

 Gopher,
 It seems like you and I were among the very few who have noticed that the Grover's need some break-in time. I felt they improved tremendously in the first 20 hours in terms of imaging, smoothness, and coherence.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*BTW, which were your last speaker cables? I have to admit, your positive reaction to these cables has me wondering about the overall sound signature of your system, as we seem to have very different setups. I think this speaks positively for the Grovers. * 
 

Well remember I have two systems running and have 4-5 pair of speakers to choose from, for some speakers I use two pair of speaker cables to bi-wire. From the list above I still own:
 AP Solo Crystal
 AP Silver Oval
 AP Oval 9
 Bogdan Silver Prince
 and
 Grover Silver Reference 

 Besides being very balanced performer with no real weakness, I will say the Grover SR produces the largest soundstage of any speaker cable I have ever tried..............my main system is set-up for maximum soundstage in nearfield seating arrangement with speakers 5ft out from speaker wall, Grover is on to something here because these babies just through out widest/deepest images I have ever heard from my system.

 Also might mention Grover SR is by far cheapest set of speaker cables from my list above.


----------



## pigmode

Hey folks,
 The latest scoop is the MK III ICs are no longer being assembled. I'm not sure if Grover has any more of them lying around, but he feels the SRs are superior enough to retire the former MK III design.


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## stressnot

Inspired by this thread, I ordered both the Grover SR speaker cables & a pair of interconnects, which I just got a week ago today.

 As has been stated, things sounded a bit thin & lackluster at first, but after about 24 hours of burn-in time -- WOW!! After that, it just got better & better. 

 Now, there's a full, deep & rich 3-dimensional sound, with a wide soundstage that, at it's best, makes the speakers seem to disappear, as the notes emanate from the ether. Individual instruments & voices can be heard distinctively, yet harmoniously, in all their full, rich detail. The timbres are lush & colorful.

 Hurray for Grover!! The man is truly a genius!


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## ipodstudio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* 
_*Grover Silver Reference Speaker Cables* 

photo 1 

photo 2 

photo 3 

 Here is what the Grover SR speaker cables physically look like. As you can see cables are lightweight and very flexible. I wasn't sure if I would like the single bare silver wire termination, but actually it works great. You can also bend wire to 45, 90 degrees etc if you need to making this very versatile option. Most gear will have small hole in binding post (5 way ) making Grover SR cable hook up a snap.......you could also form a "J" hook with wire if you want since there plenty to work with

 Can't say too much as cables are breaking in right now, but stone cold right out of the box these sound as good as any speaker cable I have ever had in my system........it can only get better from here, very excited so far.

 Interesting since in PM's system they needed time to break-in, I use all Musical Fidelity SS and perhaps have better synergy right from the start........will report more after several days.

 BTW...........not sure why Grover choose yellow & white as the shrink tube color by silver wire since this may be a little confusing. Seems no one uses standard color for "+" and "-" when making speaker cables now. Anyway just make sure you connect "+" to "+" and "-" to "-" between amp and speaker._

 

Darkangel, I tried to PM and email you but I think you've got both options switched off. Just wanted to ask if it was OK to use these pics in the galleries? Haven't been able to find too many decent pics of the Grovers.


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## DarkAngel

IPOD
 You can post links to these pictures photo album page as I have done............but I don't think Yahoo allows you to post actual image on another website. I have tried to do that here a couple times and initially the image appears but the link is very soon disabled somehow by Yahoo.

 Are you referring to "galleries" here at Head-Fi?

 I will try another experiment to see how long I can post actual image of Grover SR cables here:


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## ipodstudio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* 
_IPOD
 You can post links to these pictures photo album page as I have done............but I don't think Yahoo allows you to post actual image on another website. I have tried to do that here a couple times and initially the image appears but the link is very soon disabled somehow by Yahoo.

 Are you referring to "galleries" here at Head-Fi?_

 

DA, thanks!!, I appreciate it. I just put them up. I host them myself at the ipod studio, but those galleries are for use for members here, as well, which is why there's no login required to view them. I've placed your photos in the cables gallery here
 If you have audio-related photos you need to host in the future, you're welcome to post to the galleries there. It also means we don't lose these photos when the threads drop off the screen and when you need to see the photos again you don't have to scrat round searching for the thread they were in. No probs with Yahoo!'s strange systems, either


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## Gord SW Ont

To DarkAngel:

 Biggie was nice enough to lend me his Grover SR IC's and I've been comparing them to my HGA Silver Laces. Both sound very nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I forgot to mention a small mod I made to my Laces quite some time ago ... they came with the large screw down RCA's and I found by removing the large barrel and putting clear plastic tubing to cover and protect the exposed connector & wiring the sound seemed significantly improved. Seemed to have noticed more detail and airiness, etc. With this mod I think I like the Laces better but it's still pretty early to tell and I want to listen some more (both are excellent ... the modified Laces just seem to give me more "delicate" detail????). I know you mentioned you preferred the Grovers on your speaker based system.

 I was wondering if you (or anybody else) has experimented with similar tweaks? There are some IC's now which have minimal terminations ... is this a trend in IC's?

 Thanks for listening ... Gord SW Ont.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gord SW Ont* 
_To DarkAngel:

 Biggie was nice enough to lend me his Grover SR IC's and I've been comparing them to my HGA Silver Laces. Both sound very nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I forgot to mention a small mod I made to my Laces quite some time ago ... they came with the large screw down RCA's and I found by removing the large barrel and putting clear plastic tubing to cover and protect the exposed connector & wiring the sound seemed significantly improved. Seemed to have noticed more detail and airiness, etc. With this mod I think I like the Laces better but it's still pretty early to tell and I want to listen some more (both are excellent ... the modified Laces just seem to give me more "delicate" detail????). I know you mentioned you preferred the Grovers on your speaker based system.
 I was wondering if you (or anybody else) has experimented with similar tweaks? There are some IC's now which have minimal terminations ... is this a trend in IC's?
 Thanks for listening ... Gord SW Ont._

 

Sounds like what you are doing with Silver Lace mod is trying make metal RCA more like plastic Eichman Bullet RCA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think the newest Silver Laces have newer RCA connectors but still metal design.

 I do wish I could hear what Grover SR sounds like with silver Eichman Bullets, but they cost $80 for set of 4 and Grover SR only sell for $125 total. I really think the plastic silver bullets sound better than metal RCA designs.

 I still really like my Bogdan Silver Spirits which use the silver bullet RCAs.


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## Gord SW Ont

Just a brief follow up on the Grover SR IC's ...

 Wanted to be fair and on further listening it seems to me that versus the Silver Laces the Grover Sr's have an extended bass. Not sure of the treble (seems similar) but the SR's have a very nice balance to the sound. While the modded Laces might be somewhat more airy the Grovers have a nice foucused and balanced sound that is very pleasant.

 Bottom line is that both IC's sound very nice to me. Keep in mind though that my exposure to high priced interconnects is virtually nil. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm trying to excel at the "best bang for the buck" approach but find it difficult being isolated in the great white north where few opportunities to listen to a wide range of IC's presents itself.


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