# Wells Audio Milo - Impressions And Discussion Thread



## ufospls2

Hey All,
  
 Wells Audio started production on their "Milo" amp today ($1699 USD.) It is a fantastic looking amp in my opinion. It has come a long ways looks wise from the prototype form shown at earlier events. It reportedly is putting out about 18watts into 32ohms so it is a power monster (HE-6 owners might be interested in this amp!) I don't have any specifics on the measured performance of this amp but as they become available I will update this post. Apparently the Milo retains much of the sound signature of its older siblings, the Enigma and HeadTrip, at a much lower price point. As far as I know, the Milo begins shipping at the end of next week, so real world impressions should be available soon. Most reports from the prototype version were positive! I will hopefully have a Milo on its way to my home in this first shipment. Apparently demand is high and they are all sold out for the next 2-3 months. 
  
 Please note, I have no affiliation with Wells Audio, other than the fact I am buying one of these amps. I will post my own personal impressions as soon as I get some quality listening in. 
  
 From Jeff Wells
  
_*"The new Milo will be out within the next 2-3 weeks. If you can hang on for a few weeks then you should have an opportunity to give it a try. It puts out roughly 18 watts into 32 ohms and will retail in the states for $1699.00. It sounds like the Enigma for less than half the price and even at this low price does not give up the power that is absolutely necessary to get full performance and enjoyment from the Abyss.-Jeff Wells"*_
  
  
 A quote from the Wells Audio website.
  


> "Here's one you guys probably haven't heard of yet: the new Wells Audio "Milo". This is a more affordable $1,500 decendent of the $7,000 Headtrip. I just heard this thing for the first time, and I gotta say I'm just floored by how much of the uber-flagship Headtrip is preserved in this amp. It just manhandeled the HE1000 (15W/ch!!!), but did so with the delicacy, three dimensionality and nuance of a tube amp. I definitely want this!





> *Head-Fi Forums, CanJam SoCal Impressions Thread, March 2016"*


  
 Here are some initial pictures of the Milo, both in its prototype form, and final production form.


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## Hansotek

Lol, that quote from CanJam above was from me!


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## ufospls2

hansotek said:


> Lol, that quote from CanJam above was from me!


 
 Haha, Well, thanks for contributing!!


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## jsq1

I had dinner with Jeff wells last night and he brought the first working production Milo headphone amp over. We tried them with the new Hifiman 3000/pair headphones , the mister speakers ether and ether C headphones. I can't tell you what difference the Milo made compared to my el84 tube headphone amp. You don't know what you're missing till you hear it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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## jsq1




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## jsq1

After hearing this amp , I put my money down and bought the last one available in this present production run. The next production run he will make twice as many. The rest are all sold before the first one is even sent out..


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## ufospls2

jsq1 said:


> I had dinner with Jeff wells last night and he brought the first working production Milo headphone amp over. We tried them with the new Hifiman 3000/pair headphones , the mister speakers ether and ether C headphones. I can't tell you what difference the Milo made compared to my el84 tube headphone amp. You don't know what you're missing till you hear it.[attach]1717566[/attach][/quote]
> 
> How do you mean you can't tell what the difference was? In a good way or bad way?
> 
> Thanks for sharing your impressions and pictures!


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## jsq1

That was a way of expressing my great surprise in the difference of dynamics , extension , depth and solidity of bass, and the enlarging of the sound field around your head . Everything got a lot better. And the crazy amont of gain. I was able to drive 2 pairs of headphones at the same time. One of them being the Hifimans he-6's which are very inefficient. And the mister speakers ethers. And ether c's


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## KG Jag

I heard the prototype in July at the SF meet and was very impressed in my short time with it.  As I recall I was using the HE 1000 (when there was only one official version) with a stock cable and with a Dana Cable.


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## jsq1

I am finally going to pick up my Milo tomorrow so after a few weeks I will try to write a review on any improvements in sound. After listening to the first production model to come off the line, it was a pretty big improvement to my consonance cyber 2 EL84 tube headphone amp. We used mr speakers ether and  ether c's. I 'll hope for the best.


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## ufospls2

jsq1 said:


> I am finally going to pick up my Milo tomorrow so after a few weeks I will try to write a review on any improvements in sound. After listening to the first production model to come off the line, it was a pretty big improvement to my consonance cyber 2 EL84 tube headphone amp. We used mr speakers ether and  ether c's. I 'll hope for the best.


 
 Looking forward to your impressions. Mine won't ship until after RMAF sadly  Hopefully we will get a bunch of impressions from the RMAF crowd about the Milo as well.


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## grizzlybeast

This is my next amp... its been settled.


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## Hansotek

grizzlybeast said:


> This is my next amp... its been settled.




You're gonna love the Eikon on this bad boy. Zach, Jeff and I had a blast listening to the pairing on the last day of RMAF. Soooo good!!!


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## gr8soundz

hansotek said:


> You're gonna love the Eikon on this bad boy. Zach, Jeff and I had a blast listening to the pairing on the last day of RMAF. Soooo good!!!


 
  
 The ZMFs are 300 ohms but has anyone tried low-impedance headphones with the Milo?
  
 Sounds like the perfect amp for me but 18W is a ton of power so I wouldn't be surprised if there is some hiss.


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## Hansotek

gr8soundz said:


> The ZMFs are 300 ohms but has anyone tried low-impedance headphones with the Milo?
> 
> Sounds like the perfect amp for me but 18W is a ton of power so I wouldn't be surprised if there is some hiss.




I'll plug in some Denons when it arrives next week and report back to you.


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## ufospls2

Ahhh, my Milo was in my city and supposed to be delivered today, then I checked the UPS tracking and it had gone back to portland! Now I guess I'll have to wait until monday or tuesday  Such a bummer. Sorry just venting. Can't wait to hear it.


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## gr8soundz

I hear you. Hate that feeling when the weekend seems like a Grand Canyon of time.
  
 Also means the rest of us have to wait longer to read your impressions.
  
 Hope you get your Milo soon.


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## grizzlybeast

Wait!!!! Is Wells Audio in Portland??????!!!?!?!?
  
 northern Cali... Close enough


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## ufospls2

gr8soundz said:


> I hear you. Hate that feeling when the weekend seems like a Grand Canyon of time.
> 
> Also means the rest of us have to wait longer to read your impressions.
> 
> Hope you get your Milo soon.


 
  
 Haha, grand canyon of time is a good way to put it. 


grizzlybeast said:


> Wait!!!! Is Wells Audio in Portland??????!!!?!?!?
> 
> northern Cali... Close enough


 
 Aye northern California. For some reason my package went back to Portland, no reason on the tracking. Must have been a mixup. Really weird. Oh well. I see you have the Metrum Acoustics Pavane. How do you like it? Thats one DAC I would love to get my hands on!


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## Muinarc

hansotek said:


> I'll plug in some Denons when it arrives next week and report back to you.


 
  
 Bad news @Hansotek, the Milo going to you might get "lost" and was re-routed to my house........ *starts hacking ups servers*
  
  
  
 I'm jealous man, I was loving what I heard at RMAF.


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## grizzlybeast

ufospls2 said:


> gr8soundz said:
> 
> 
> > I hear you. Hate that feeling when the weekend seems like a Grand Canyon of time.
> ...


 
 I freakin love this DAC. END GAME for me at least.


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## Hansotek

muinarc said:


> Bad news @Hansotek
> , the Milo going to you might get "lost" and was re-routed to my house........ *starts hacking ups servers*
> 
> 
> ...




Apparently, I think if I check UPS Quantum View every 2 hours it will arrive faster. So far it's not working.


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## Muinarc

Quote:


hansotek said:


> Apparently, I think if I check UPS Quantum View every 2 hours it will arrive faster. So far it's not working.


 

 ​Well you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to update every 22 minutes.
  
  
  
 While you wait here is my RMAF photo again:


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## Hansotek

muinarc said:


> ​Well you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to update every 22 minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> While you wait here is my RMAF photo again:




So far, that's not working either.


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## grizzlybeast

Can anyone tell me what those fins on the side are for?


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## raybone0566

grizzlybeast said:


> Can anyone tell me what those fins on the side are for?


Those are heatsinks


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## grizzlybeast

raybone0566 said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone tell me what those fins on the side are for?
> ...


 
 shows how much I know.... Does this thing run really Hot?


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## Muinarc

grizzlybeast said:


> shows how much I know.... Does this thing run really Hot?


 

 ​Pretty warm.


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## rigo

hansotek said:


> Apparently, I think if I check UPS Quantum View every 2 hours it will arrive faster. So far it's not working.




Hahaha I've done this too. Never arrives sooner.


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## grizzlybeast

They need to put some official specs up on their website. 
  
 I want to know when it kicks over to AB
  
 THD 
  
 Impedance output 
  
 yadda yadda


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## Hansotek

grizzlybeast said:


> They need to put some official specs up on their website.
> 
> I want to know when it kicks over to AB
> 
> ...




Not sure, but I would speculate that if you are bleeding from the ears it is running in class A. If you are bleeding from the eyes, it is running in class AB.


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## grizzlybeast

hansotek said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > They need to put some official specs up on their website.
> ...


 
 lol


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## ufospls2

Hey guys,
  
 So. My new amp (Wells Audio Milo) came in this afternoon. I have **** luck, and the right driver of my Abyss seems to be dead, so no impressions with them yet. However, I thankfully have my other headphones, and have put about an hour of listening in. I’m using my Mojo as my DAC until I can afford a desktop option. Please keep in mind, these are very, very early impressions. Those impressions that hit you the first little while with a piece of gear, rather than the small nuances you pick up over time.
  
 First things first. WOW. A budget friendly masterpiece. I haven’t heard the Wells Enigma or HeadTrip, but if they improve on this then good god, I better win the lottery.
  
 I’d say the overall character of this amp is very slightly warm, but not gooey, sweet and mushy. There is still this great clarity present. The treble isn’t etched or strident, it is well presented and clear. The mids might be what contributes to the slight warmth I’m hearing, they certainly aren’t recessed. The bass isn’t boomy or overblown, its just there, fast and precise. This amp costs the same or a little bit less than my Auralic Taurus (which I am selling now….) and it is much more to my taste than the latter. The Auralic does have great clarity, but its a bit sterile and lifeless. I say that being VERY picky, it is still a great amp, I just prefer the Milo more, that is all.
  
 Some may dislike this characteristic, but I think this amp is like the Abyss, its fun! It may not be the answer if you want a “wire with gain” type of amp, like the GSX-Mk2 or something along those lines. However, if you want to enjoy your music, and are not doing extreme critical listening, I think this might be something for you to check out, regardless of your budget. I’ve heard lots of amps, and this Milo is punching above its weight class, most definitely. I can’t say an exact price point where this type of quality resides is, but I am enjoying this amp just as much as the Simaudio Moon Neo 430HA, a solid $4000 amp. That is saying something, as I really like the 430 HA.
  
 This thing is a little power monster, putting out 18W into 32ohms. You need to spend a lot of money elsewhere to get that kind of power, apart from the iFi I can pro which does a max output of 14W and costs the same. However, power isn’t everything. I think the need for power gets overstated quite a lot, but for my headphones, at least the LCD-4 and Abyss, power is a good thing. They love power, it transforms them. I’ve only listened with the LCD-4 out of the two so far (due to my Abyss’s right driver being dead) and it is like listening to a different headphone compared with my Auralic. The bass is bigger, it sounds fuller, and more punchy. This amp is certainly quite dynamic.
  
 Now, my HD800S doesn’t need the same amount of power as my other headphones, but its a bit of a picky bugger when it comes to amps. Not as picky as its older brother the regular HD800, but picky nonetheless. You can drive an HD800/S off your motherboard if you like, and it will sound great! But connect that same headphone to the right amp, and it really does take it to another level. The slight warmth of the Milo really does work well with the HD800S, and I’m sure it would with the regular HD800, as I used to own them and know them well. There is more bass, not mushy bass, just fast precise kick you in the face bass, compared to listening to the HD800S out of the Chord Mojo. It warms up the mids a little bit, and cools down the treble a tiny tiny bit. You have to be a bit more careful with the volume knob of the Milo when using the HD800S, but apart from that, this is a pretty damn good pairing.
  
 Summing it all up. I’m impressed. Most impressed. This thing drives anything on the market, and not only does it drive anything, it sounds good whilst doing it. The Milo is fun, it has a bit of warmth, but not too much. When I say warm, think of a cozy living room in the wintertime, with a nice fire in the background. I listened to the Schiit Mjolnir 2 (with stock tubes) and was highly unimpressed. It was mushy and undefined. That might change using different tubes from the stock ones, I’m not sure. The bass is big, fast, and precise on the Milo. The treble is clear without piercing your eardrums. You sure as hell could do a lot worse than this amp, not only at $1699, but at any price. In my books, Jeff Wells has a winner on his hands, and I hope he sells lots of them. Now, I’m off to buy a lottery ticket so I can send this back and buy a HeadTrip! Thanks for reading, hope some of you find this helpful.


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## ufospls2




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## gr8soundz

Thanks for the great early impressions and pics. And for mentioning the Schiit MJ2. Was considering the MJ2 but think I'll cross it off my list (prefer something with more impact).
  
 Sounds like the Milo lives up to the hype.
  
 Sad to hear about your Abyss though (on the same day you finally got your Milo; must feel like winning and losing at the same time).


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## ufospls2

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for the great early impressions and pics. And for mentioning the Schiit MJ2. Was considering the MJ2 but think I'll cross it off my list (prefer something with more impact).
> 
> Sounds like the Milo lives up to the hype.
> 
> Sad to hear about your Abyss though (on the same day you finally got your Milo; must feel like winning and losing at the same time).


 
 Im enjoying it typing this. Its just clearer than my Auralic, and the soundstage and depth are better. Yeah its a real bummer about my Abyss, horrific timing.


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## rigo

Are those XLR inputs that are covered in the back?


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## ufospls2

rigo said:


> Are this XLR inputs that are covered in the back?


 
 Yup, I opted to just get RCA inputs.


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## grizzlybeast

ufospls2 said:


> rigo said:
> 
> 
> > Are this XLR inputs that are covered in the back?
> ...


 
 wait does it cost more to get the XLR ?
  
 Is the amp fully balaned?


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## rigo

ufospls2 said:


> Yup, I opted to just get RCA inputs.




Okay so the 4 pin output is standard correct?


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## gr8soundz

Look like everything is standard EXCEPT for the dual XLR inputs (says those are available upon request). Thought I read somewhere they were additional $200? but not sure.
 http://www.wellsaudio.com/milo-manual/


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## ufospls2

grizzlybeast said:


> wait does it cost more to get the XLR ?
> 
> Is the amp fully balaned?


 
 $200 for XLR inputs. Amp is not balanced, its single ended.


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## ufospls2

rigo said:


> Okay so the 4 pin output is standard correct?


 
 yes.


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## rigo

grizzlybeast said:


> wait does it cost more to get the XLR ?
> 
> Is the amp fully balaned?




No it is not. It costs more to have the XLR inputs but they are there for convenience.

ALREADY ANSWERED


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## grizzlybeast

ufospls2 said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > wait does it cost more to get the XLR ?
> ...



Uh oh... Maybe it hasnt been settled. 

XLR inputs on the enigma is a big price difference as well.


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## ufospls2

Just an update after a long listening session last night.
  
The Milo made me stay up much later than I should have. To add to my initial impressions, the soundstage, and depth are amazing. Also, the presence of micro details I've never heard before was stunning. I'm not the biggest Taylor Swift fan, but I needed a pop test track so I put on one of her songs. Her breathing in and out before singing lines was so noticeable! The way the Milo presents female vocals is beautiful. Last night was like listening to my favourite music for the first time again. Truly impressive.


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## Hansotek

ufospls2 said:


> $200 for XLR inputs. Amp is not balanced, its single ended.




I think Jeff would tell you it is "unbalanced", not "single-ended". Not sure what the distinction is, but I've heard him say it before.


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## Hansotek

gr8soundz said:


> Look like everything is standard EXCEPT for the dual XLR inputs (says those are available upon request). Thought I read somewhere they were additional $200? but not sure.
> http://www.wellsaudio.com/milo-manual/




There are the specs you wanted grizzlybeast.


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## ufospls2

hansotek said:


> I think Jeff would tell you it is "unbalanced", not "single-ended". Not sure what the distinction is, but I've heard him say it before.


 
 Thats my bad 100%. I didn't know there was a difference


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## rigo

Anyone know the difference?


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## grizzlybeast

Single ended is a term mostly used for the output stage and sometimes used for the input. In this case it is only SE. 

If the 4pin output doesn't increase the gain or anything than its still an SE amp with the convenience of the 4 pin plug. Same as having a 4 pin to 1/4 inch adapter.


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## gr8soundz

I think SE means just that, inside and out.
  
 Unbalanced could mean having balanced inputs and outputs yet the internals aren't balanced. Many amps have balanced ins/outs for convenience (and/or more output power for headphones) but the internals are a single ended design.


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## Hansotek




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## Muinarc

Maybe my hacking was successful.......


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## Hansotek

muinarc said:


> Maybe my hacking was successful.......
> 
> 
> :evil:




NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!


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## Hansotek

I have to apologize for the quality of these unboxing pics, I was tripping over myself to get this thing out of the box and plugged in!







Quick first impressions:
- Holy #%&@! Tone, impact, soundstage, clarity - unbelievable!!!
- 30db is way too much gain. I'm listening to the Abyss at about 8:30 on the volume dial.
- I don't friggin' care because it sounds INCREDIBLE!!!
- Too much power for sensitive dynamics, unless you can adjust the input voltage to the amp with a DAC like Mojo or something. 
- Much like the higher-end Wells amps, this thing will absolutely light up your planars - the Abyss, Omni and HE500 are just jaw-droppingly good on it. I wish I still had an HE-6, because this would drive it effortlessly.
- What really sets Milo apart is the dynamic authority it asserts over the headphone. It's so impactful and controlled... while some amps struggle with hard to drive headphones, the Milo lets the music just impose its will on the drivers. 

Lots of listening and comparing to do before a formal review, but wow, $1,700 amps don't sound like this. Very impressive, so far.


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## Muinarc

Glad it got to you and you're already jammin' out at home! Try an IEM on it lol.


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## ufospls2

hansotek said:


> I have to apologize for the quality of these unboxing pics, I was tripping over myself to get this thing out of the box and plugged in!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for sharing! I kinda don't agree with there being too much power for sensitive dynamics though. I've been listening to my HD800S on the Milo to test them out, and its the best I've ever heard them. I run my volume at about 50% on my software player in my computer, so I've got the volume turned up quite a bit more than you with my LCD-4's. I'm jealous that you've heard the higher up Wells amps. How do you feel they differ from the Milo? In what ways are they better? Also, what cable are you using on your Abyss? Do you hear a difference vs. the stock cable?


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## Hansotek

ufospls2 said:


> Thanks for sharing! I kinda don't agree with there being too much power for sensitive dynamics though. I've been listening to my HD800S on the Milo to test them out, and its the best I've ever heard them. I run my volume at about 50% on my software player in my computer, so I've got the volume turned up quite a bit more than you with my LCD-4's. I'm jealous that you've heard the higher up Wells amps. How do you feel they differ from the Milo? In what ways are they better? Also, what cable are you using on your Abyss? Do you hear a difference vs. the stock cable?




Well, the HD800S isn't what I would call "sensitive". I meant low impedance, high sensitivity headphones like Grado, Fostex, Denon, etc. I plugged in my modded D2000. It sounded good, but I didn't have much play on the volume dial. Turning down the source volume is a good way to get around it, provided you aren't listening to DSDs.

I still need to give them a whirl with the HD800.

I bet the LCD-4 destroys on this amp. That seems like an ideal match.

Comparing to the other Wells amps is difficult. They have an extremely neutral and dynamic house sound. The Headtrip offers more dynamics, more powerful bass, a larger soundstage and more transparency. But differences are probably less than 5%. Transparency and soundstage are the biggest upgrades on the Headtrip (using the Abyss to judge). The Enigma is extremely close to the Headtrip. Probably gets there with everything but that last 1-2% of transparency. Bottom line is, they are all very close.

The cable I am using is the DanaCable Lazuli Reference. The differences with most cables are fairly nuanced, however, I don't find the differences from this cable to be nuanced at all. They are very obvious to me and very, very good. I'll post a link to my review when it goes live. IIRC, it should be up in the next day or two.

Edit: The DanaCable review mentioned above it up: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1116/Danacable_Lazuli_Reference_Headphone_Cables_Review.htm


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## rigo

I know you barely received it. But Do you think the Elear and Senn 650/800S will be good matches with Milo?


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## ufospls2

rigo said:


> I know you barely received it. But Do you think the Elear and Senn 650/800S will be good matches with Milo?


 
 I used the HD800S all last night with the Milo (I used to own the regular HD800 as well) and it is the best I have ever heard them. I can only imagine the Sennheiser 650's would fair similarly. I have only heard the Elear for a short while. It is a more sensitive headphone, so I guess it doesn't *need* the power of the Milo, but it sure might benefit from the musicality, and more importantly the soundstage. I found the Elears soundstage a bit small (I like a big soundstage) so the Milo might open them up a bit. All of this is pure conjecture on my part, I could be completely wrong.


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## ufospls2

hansotek said:


> Well, the HD800S isn't what I would call "sensitive". I meant low impedance, high sensitivity headphones like Grado, Fostex, Denon, etc. I plugged in my modded D2000. It sounded good, but I didn't have much play on the volume dial. Turning down the source volume is a good way to get around it, provided you aren't listening to DSDs.
> 
> I still need to give them a whirl with the HD800.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for replying, and thanks for sharing the review about the DanaCable. That is interesting about the other Wells amps, I hope I can hear the HeadTrip someday. I see what you mean about sensitive headphones. I'll try it tonight with a pair of Grado SR80's, that could be interesting.
  
 The LCD-4 is really good on the Milo, you are 100% correct. They are an interesting headphone, they really seem to like a good bit power behind them. I thought I was doing them justice with my Auralic Taurus Mk2 but they seem a bit lifeless on it now compared to the Milo. I think any of the LCD line of headphones would fair well on the Milo to be honest. I think you are right about it doing well with hard to drive planars.
  
 I might have to replace my Abyss cable at some point as I think there might be a loose connection on the left hand side. The DanaCable is definitely one to consider by the sounds of things. It is on the pricier side of things, but so are most cables for the Abyss it seems. Thanks again for the great review. Is enjoy the music your website? Its great!


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## Hansotek

ufospls2 said:


> Thanks for replying, and thanks for sharing the review about the DanaCable. That is interesting about the other Wells amps, I hope I can hear the HeadTrip someday. I see what you mean about sensitive headphones. I'll try it tonight with a pair of Grado SR80's, that could be interesting.
> 
> The LCD-4 is really good on the Milo, you are 100% correct. They are an interesting headphone, they really seem to like a good bit power behind them. I thought I was doing them justice with my Auralic Taurus Mk2 but they seem a bit lifeless on it now compared to the Milo. I think any of the LCD line of headphones would fair well on the Milo to be honest. I think you are right about it doing well with hard to drive planars.
> 
> I might have to replace my Abyss cable at some point as I think there might be a loose connection on the left hand side. The DanaCable is definitely one to consider by the sounds of things. It is on the pricier side of things, but so are most cables for the Abyss it seems. Thanks again for the great review. Is enjoy the music your website? Its great!




Haha, not mine, no. Steve Rochlin owns it. Great guy and funny as heck. He's been covering high-end audio stuff forever.

Thanks for the kind words! By all means, PM me if I can be of any assistance in your cable search.


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## gr8soundz

Maybe its because of all the PCs I've built but I'm always interested in the internal build of amps. Haven't seen any internal shots of the Milo but did find some of the Headtrip (at HeadphoneGuru) including this:
  

  
 Not assuming Milo is the same but, if it is indeed based on the Headtrip, it could be similar. Don't see any tubes and doesn't look like any recent amp I've seen.
  
 When listening to it, can you guys tell that the Milo isn't a tube or hybrid amp?
  
 Also, will you guys always leave it turned on (despite specs showing 130W idle power use)?


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## ufospls2

hansotek said:


> Haha, not mine, no. Steve Rochlin owns it. Great guy and funny as heck. He's been covering high-end audio stuff forever.
> 
> Thanks for the kind words! By all means, PM me if I can be of any assistance in your cable search.


 
 Will do! Thank you 
  


gr8soundz said:


> Maybe its because of all the PCs I've built but I'm always interested in the internal build of amps. Haven't seen any internal shots of the Milo but did find some of the Headtrip (at HeadphoneGuru) including this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I know NOTHING about amp design and the interior etc...but here is a photo I found which seems to have a different set up for the volume control. Not sure. 
  
  
 I don't have enough experience with tube amps to comment regarding if it sounds like a tube amp/hybrid. The few tube amps I have heard were so vastly different from each other that I'm really not sure. I won't always leave mine turned on, I only turn it on when I'm using it. If you were meaning "burning in" the amp, I actually prefer to just listen to it like normal and slowly hear the changes happen. Jeff Wells suggested 200 hours will really bring the amp to life. I know I'm in the minority, and most people like to leave the amp burning in without listening to it, to get the burn in process over quickly. I guess I'm weird. I'm really curious to see if I do hear changes. With some headphones and amps I have, and with others I've noticed no difference at all. Go figure.


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## gr8soundz

ufospls2 said:


> I know NOTHING about amp design and the interior etc...but here is a photo I found which seems to have a different set up for the volume control. Not sure.


 
  
 I'm no expert either (wouldn't mind building my own amps if I were) but I had no words to describe what I saw in that pic.
  
Perhaps the volume control was an option or design evolution. Or maybe one of the pictured amps was a prototype.
 Edit: answered below.....


----------



## Hansotek

gr8soundz said:


> Maybe its because of all the PCs I've built but I'm always interested in the internal build of amps. Haven't seen any internal shots of the Milo but did find some of the Headtrip (at HeadphoneGuru) including this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


ufospls2 said:


> Will do! Thank you
> 
> I know NOTHING about amp design and the interior etc...but here is a photo I found which seems to have a different set up for the volume control. Not sure.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Milo, Enigma and Headtrip are all solid state. They definitely possess the traits you think of with well-done solid state: gobs of clarity, pinpoint transients, reference-level decay, lots of extension at both ends, tight/impactful bass, etc. 
  
 Yes, those are different attenuators. The one @gr8soundz posted is the stepped attenuator. The one pictured in @ufospls2 post is the infinite wiper style attenuator. Given the choice between the two, I think the infinite wiper is much better.


----------



## Hansotek

Milo sounds real nice with the HD800, in case anyone was wondering. Thumbs up!


----------



## The Piper

They are both stepped attenuators. The latter is the Khozmo from Poland. It has taken the place of a hand built unit we formerly used but is no longer available. The Khozmo is certainly one of the best attenuators in the world. It is an upgrade from the previous unit but more expensive also. We have chosen to eat the extra cost for it as long as we can. The Khozmo is like a piece of fine jewelry and has taken the latest Headtrips to an even higher level of excellence.


----------



## pedalhead

@The Piper, how does the power output of the Milo compare to the Enigma please? Your website puts the Enigma at 150w into 8 ohms, which I'm pretty sure will be a copy/paste from a speaker amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 To the Milo owners out there, would you mind please posting what position the volume knob is for a good listening level (say, 80db or so) and what headphones you're using?  Thanks!


----------



## Hansotek

pedalhead said:


> @The Piper
> , how does the power output of the Milo compare to the Enigma please? Your website puts the Enigma at 150w into 8 ohms, which I'm pretty sure will be a copy/paste from a speaker amp  .
> 
> To the Milo owners out there, would you mind please posting what position the volume knob is for a good listening level (say, 80db or so) and what headphones you're using?  Thanks!




With the Abyss, Omni, HE500 and HD800 I'm at about 8 o'clock on the volume dial, give or take. That is with a fairly strong source and volume between 82 and 85db RMS. 9 o'clock on the Abyss is about 90db RMS. 

Zero:


Most headphones :


The Abyss (with a strong source):


With a weaker source it might be around 9:00 or 9:15.


----------



## gr8soundz

hansotek said:


> With the Abyss, Omni, HE500 and HD800 I'm at about 8 o'clock on the volume dial, give or take. That is with a fairly strong source and volume between 82 and 85db RMS. 9 o'clock on the Abyss is about 90db RMS.
> 
> With a weaker source it might be around 9:00 or 9:15.


 
  
 Sounds like the Milo is _too_ powerful.


----------



## Hansotek

gr8soundz said:


> Sounds like the Milo is _too_ powerful.




I'm not sure, but The Piper might offer it with a stepped down output as well, I know you can order it as an option with the Headtrip.


----------



## pedalhead

Thanks @hansotek. Interesting info. With the level of gain in this amp and the Enigma (bizarrely high tbh) you'd better hope the potentiometer is a good one to ensure good balance low down in the knob travel. The Cosmos pot in my Enigma has very poor channel balance, so much so that I'll soon be swapping it out for an Elma A47 (a really nice stepped attenuator). In fairness, the Cosmos pots sound great but were dreadful for channel balance issues & I know of one major retailer that had to ditch their entire stock of them. 

Perhaps @The Piper could confirm which pot is in the Milo please? Cheers.


----------



## ufospls2

pedalhead said:


> @The Piper, how does the power output of the Milo compare to the Enigma please? Your website puts the Enigma at 150w into 8 ohms, which I'm pretty sure will be a copy/paste from a speaker amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I use Fidelia as my software player on my mac. As you can see in the pic attached, the volume knob on the player is like that on an amp. I run it from about 10 o'clock to right in the middle at 12 o'clock usually. With this setting, using the LCD-4's, the Milo is about the same, from 10' o'clock to 12 o'clock, depending on how loud I want to go. With a different software player like Itunes or similar, I would run the volume at 100% and the Milo volume would be quite a bit lower. I just like being a bit higher up on the Milos volume control, I find it gives me a bit more control. I don't know if this is a design feature, but on my Milo, at the VERY beginning of turning the volume knob from absolute zero, you only get sound in the right channel. After a tiny bit more of a turn it goes into both channels. Don't know why that is.


----------



## pedalhead

Cheers, yes one way to deal with the high gain is to use software volume (I sometimes use HQPlayer's built-in volume control as I trust it to be decent). I also sometimes use the volume control on my dac/pre-amp.  The channel imbalance you're hearing is just how some pots behave, although some are far worse than others (stepped attenuators are far better in this regard).  Generally the channels balance out as you turn the knob, but obviously with a high gain amp there's less room for this to take place.


----------



## rigo

hansotek said:


> I'm not sure, but The Piper might offer it with a stepped down output as well, I know you can order it as an option with the Headtrip.




Stepped down output? Can you explain a little more what this possible option us, does?


----------



## Hansotek

rigo said:


> Stepped down output? Can you explain a little more what this possible option us, does?




I spoke with Jeff the other day, this is not an option.

The Milo has about twice the gain of most high-end, high-powered amps you will find out there. Cutting that gain would give you more play on the volume knob when you have sensitive headphones and relatively high-voltage sources. However, such things can also have a negative effect on the sound. Wells found these changes to be unacceptable. Better to have a sensitive volume knob than a lesser amp, at the end of the day.


----------



## Hansotek

Started A/B comparisons between the Milo and the Liquid Crimson today. Though call between the two. Two different sounds, but in many ways, they are neck and neck for the best amp under $3k. Wish I had the $$$ to keep them both!


----------



## grizzlybeast

Ill wait fpr updates. That's interesting!


----------



## Muinarc

hansotek said:


> Started A/B comparisons between the Milo and the Liquid Crimson today. Though call between the two. Two different sounds, but in many ways, they are neck and neck for the best amp under $3k. Wish I had the $$$ to keep them both!


 

 Tax return season is right around the corner.......


----------



## ufospls2

Well, I'm returning my Milo. Not because it is bad and don't like it, but because it is so good!!! I have ordered a HeadTrip, and I think that speaks volumes about how much the Milo has impressed me over my few weeks with it. I'm selling some gear I NEVER thought I would sell to be able to afford the HeadTrip, which again, shows how much I like/liked the Milo. I'm leaving the country for a few months, which leaves some time for the HeadTrip to be worked on. I will be sure to post impressions once I am home and have received it, but if it is anything like the Milo, I think I know what to expect, and that is to be thoroughly impressed. If you have a chance to hear a Milo at a meet, I suggest jumping at it. You might be surprised what the little guy is capable of!


----------



## Hansotek

ufospls2 said:


> Well, I'm returning my Milo. Not because it is bad and don't like it, but because it is so good!!! I have ordered a HeadTrip, and I think that speaks volumes about how much the Milo has impressed me over my few weeks with it. I'm selling some gear I NEVER thought I would sell to be able to afford the HeadTrip, which again, shows how much I like/liked the Milo. I'm leaving the country for a few months, which leaves some time for the HeadTrip to be worked on. I will be sure to post impressions once I am home and have received it, but if it is anything like the Milo, I think I know what to expect, and that is to be thoroughly impressed. If you have a chance to hear a Milo at a meet, I suggest jumping at it. You might be surprised what the little guy is capable of!




Oh wow! Congrats on the Headtrip, it is a fantastic piece of gear!


----------



## gr8soundz

ufospls2 said:


> Well, I'm returning my Milo. Not because it is bad and don't like it, but because it is so good!!! I have ordered a HeadTrip, and I think that speaks volumes about how much the Milo has impressed me over my few weeks with it. I'm selling some gear I NEVER thought I would sell to be able to afford the HeadTrip, which again, shows how much I like/liked the Milo. I'm leaving the country for a few months, which leaves some time for the HeadTrip to be worked on. I will be sure to post impressions once I am home and have received it, but if it is anything like the Milo, I think I know what to expect, and that is to be thoroughly impressed. If you have a chance to hear a Milo at a meet, I suggest jumping at it. You might be surprised what the little guy is capable of!


 
  
 Sounds like the Milo got you hooked. 
 Just as Wells Audio intended.......


----------



## Hansotek

My Wells Milo review just went live: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1216/Wells_Audio_Milo_Headphone_Amplifier_Review.htm

I tried to answer most of the questions on this thread with direct insights from Jeff, including the reasons behind why the Milo is so powerful and his decision to use an unbalanced design. Enjoy!


----------



## grizzlybeast

I used my milo funds to get an HE-6 and after bass modding them they are here to stay. Dream deferred now.


----------



## Hansotek

grizzlybeast said:


> I used my milo funds to get an HE-6 and after bass modding them they are here to stay. Dream deferred now.




I love me some HE-6, so I can't blame you! I hope you get a chance to give the Milo a listen at some point though, it's a heck of a lot of fun. I think you would enjoy its visceral presentation.


----------



## gr8soundz

hansotek said:


> My Wells Milo review just went live: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1216/Wells_Audio_Milo_Headphone_Amplifier_Review.htm
> 
> I tried to answer most of the questions on this thread with direct insights from Jeff, including the reasons behind why the Milo is so powerful and his decision to use an unbalanced design. Enjoy!


 
  
 Great review. Thanks for getting clarification those details.
  
 Still have my eye on the Milo as an end game amp (for me at least; when I can afford to). Guess I'll need to use it with a variable output source since the amp is so powerful (good to know in advance).
  
*One question though: Would you say the Milo's sound is more, or less (or the same) fatiguing compared to other amps during long listening sessions?*
  
 I'd been set on a hybrid or full tube amp (which hasn't worked out thus far; had to return 2 defective amps tube amps recently by diff brands) but this remains the only thing I wonder about the Milo.


----------



## Hansotek

gr8soundz said:


> Great review. Thanks for getting clarification those details.
> 
> Still have my eye on the Milo as an end game amp (for me at least; when I can afford to). Guess I'll need to use it with a variable output source since the amp is so powerful (good to know in advance).
> 
> ...




IMHO, it is one of the least fatiguing amps out there. I can really listen to this thing for hours on end because everything is so easy and natural and effortless on it. I just spent the last 4 hours listening on it and it just flew by like it was 30 minutes.


----------



## gr8soundz

hansotek said:


> IMHO, it is one of the least fatiguing amps out there. I can really listen to this thing for hours on end because everything is so easy and natural and effortless on it. I just spent the last 4 hours listening on it and it just flew by like it was 30 minutes.


 
  
 Thanks. Milo it is (hopefully after new years). Just hope its more reliable than my last attempts at an end-game. The 3-year warranty is reassuring though (others only had one year).


----------



## Astral Abyss

There's a couple new custom order options on the Milo page:
  
*The Milo is now available with an attenuation feature of 7.5db upon request for an additional $100.00. The Milo can also be ordered with a premium Khozmo stepped attenuator for an additional $400.00.*
  
 The 7.5db attenuation feature might be nice.  I'd like it more if it was switchable.
  
 Those Khozmo attenuators look nice.  Not sure if they look $400 nice.


----------



## gr8soundz

I'd also like to know if the attenuation is switchable?
  
 Either way, don't think it should be additional cost just for the ability to use the amp with fixed sources over 2V. The amp may be too powerful for it's own good and attenuation should've been standard (or at least a no-cost evolutionary feature).


----------



## Astral Abyss

gr8soundz said:


> I'd also like to know if the attenuation is switchable?
> 
> Either way, don't think it should be additional cost just for the ability to use the amp with fixed sources over 2V. The amp may be too powerful for it's own good and attenuation should've been standard (or at least a no-cost evolutionary feature).


 
  
 I emailed Jeff Wells about it.  It is not switchable.  It's a permanent change to the design.  He also offers a 12db attenuation as well.
  
 The Khozmo is a replacement to the Tocos attenuator that comes standard on the Milo.  This should take care of the channel imbalance at low levels and Jeff considers it an upgrade in sound and quality.
  
 I'm likely going to order a Milo after the holidays with the Khozmo attenuator.  I don't think I'll go for either the 7.5 or 12db changes since I'll be using these on my HE-6, Ori, and Eikon, and not any of my higher sensitivity headphones.  I'm not opposed to using digital attenuation in JRiver to get the volume up to the 11-12 o'clock position.  Maybe some of you have some thoughts on whether I should opt for the attenuation or not and I'd love to hear them.  I'll be using the Milo with my DAC-19 for the time being, but we all know that will probably change at some point in the future.


----------



## gr8soundz

Thanks for those details.
  
 Just to clarify, the stock Milo has 30dB attenuation so is the option for minus 7.5 (or 12dB; making it 22.5 or 18dB) or does the change fix the amp's output to 7.5 (or 12) vs. 30?


----------



## Astral Abyss

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for those details.
> 
> Just to clarify, the stock Milo has 30dB attenuation so is the option for minus 7.5 (or 12dB; making it 22.5 or 18dB) or does the change fix the amp's output to 7.5 (or 12) vs. 30?


 
  
 The stock Milo has 30db gain.  The attenuation options would reduce that by either 7.5db or 12db, resulting in a gain of 22.5db or 18db, respectively.  Think of it like a high, medium, or low gain setting, with no option to change it later.  I think it really depends on the type of headphones you plan to connect to it and whether they have high sensitivity or not.


----------



## Hansotek

astral abyss said:


> The stock Milo has 30db gain.  The attenuation options would reduce that by either 7.5db or 12db, resulting in a gain of 22.5db or 18db, respectively.  Think of it like a high, medium, or low gain setting, with no option to change it later.  I think it really depends on the type of headphones you plan to connect to it and whether they have high sensitivity or not.




FWIW, 18dB is still a lot of gain. I think that is the high gain setting on the Cavalli Liquid Gold.


----------



## Astral Abyss

hansotek said:


> FWIW, 18dB is still a lot of gain. I think that is the high gain setting on the Cavalli Liquid Gold.


 
  
 If you had to do it all over again, would you go for the attenuation option?  If so, which one?


----------



## Hansotek

astral abyss said:


> If you had to do it all over again, would you go for the attenuation option?  If so, which one?




I don't know, honestly. I would definitely ask about how much it changes the sound. My volume potentiometer is very well matched all the way down, so it's no biggie. I wouldn't even consider it if I thought it might change the sound. I'd probably look at + 22.5 and + 30 as options for the HE-6. Not sure how much those resistors affect the current availability.


----------



## gr8soundz

astral abyss said:


> The stock Milo has 30db gain.  The attenuation options would reduce that by either 7.5db or 12db, resulting in a gain of 22.5db or 18db, respectively.  Think of it like a high, medium, or low gain setting, with no option to change it later.  I think it really depends on the type of headphones you plan to connect to it and whether they have high sensitivity or not.


 
  
 Gain, right; don't know what I was thinking.
  
 I don't own the Abyss or HE-6 and would mostly use my T1.2 with it (which are fairly easy to drive). All my other headphones are 80 ohms or less so the attenuation option could work for me as long as the sound isn't negatively affected.
  
 The super low 0.1 output impedance also makes the Milo a good candidate provided there's no channel imbalance (which impressions suggest isn't a problem).
  
 Too bad they can't implement a gain switch (without degrading the output). Spending almost $2K and getting stuck with only one gain setting isn't ideal. I'd plan to keep the amp for a long time and what happens if I get an Abyss or HE-6 down the road?
  
 Perhaps I'll just get a stock Milo, save the $100, and find other ways to use more sensitive headphones. I could probably use my iFi iEMatch to attenuate the output.


----------



## Hansotek

gr8soundz said:


> Gain, right; don't know what I was thinking.
> 
> I don't own the Abyss or HE-6 and would mostly use my T1.2 with it (which are fairly easy to drive). All my other headphones are 80 ohms or less so the attenuation option could work for me as long as the sound isn't negatively affected.
> 
> ...




+18 is still a lot of gain. I'm sure you could always send it back to Jeff, if you wanted it changed. Just email him and ask.


----------



## DaemonSire

gr8soundz said:


> Gain, right; don't know what I was thinking.
> 
> I don't own the Abyss or HE-6 and would mostly use my T1.2 with it (which are fairly easy to drive). All my other headphones are 80 ohms or less so the attenuation option could work for me as long as the sound isn't negatively affected.
> 
> ...


 
 Another "possible" option is to pick up a set of attenuators like these:
  
 http://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-12-db-rca-line-level-audio-attenuator-pair--266-244


----------



## Hifi59

astral abyss said:


> I emailed Jeff Wells about it.  It is not switchable.  It's a permanent change to the design.  He also offers a 12db attenuation as well.
> 
> The Khozmo is a replacement to the Tocos attenuator that comes standard on the Milo.  This should take care of the channel imbalance at low levels and Jeff considers it an upgrade in sound and quality.
> 
> I'm likely going to order a Milo after the holidays with the Khozmo attenuator.  I don't think I'll go for either the 7.5 or 12db changes since I'll be using these on my HE-6, Ori, and Eikon, and not any of my higher sensitivity headphones.  I'm not opposed to using digital attenuation in JRiver to get the volume up to the 11-12 o'clock position.  Maybe some of you have some thoughts on whether I should opt for the attenuation or not and I'd love to hear them.  I'll be using the Milo with my DAC-19 for the time being, but we all know that will probably change at some point in the future.




I just received my Milo with the 7.5 db attenuator. I too have the He-6(along with the LCD-3&4,he-1k). I would recommend the attenuator. I can't go past the 1oclock position unless I want to pop my ear drums.


----------



## Hifi59

I just received my Milo to replace my Burson CV2 (which I love). My immediate impression upon first listen using my Hifiman HE-1k was "My God, this thing is powerful, transparent and smooooth!" Anything this light has no right to be this powerful! My Burson weighs more than twice the Milo and has half the power(all class A) so how can this be?
When all is said and done, I guess it doesn't matter because the Milo is the best sounding headphone amp that I have heard to date. It's superiority shows itself well with my Hifiman headphones more than the Audezes but everything is improved over my Burson. The Burson is in no way embarrassed by the Milo, it just doesn't deliver that last bit of transparency and heft to music that the Milo does. Tonally, they are quite similar though. One of the Bursons virtues to me is its attack and decay. Even with the Milos smooth character, it still manages to have fantastic attack and decay making anything I'm listening to exciting and engaging. I would also add that the Burson has a much more refined feel and presence than the Milo but ultimately it's about the sound and the Milo delivers like no other amp to date! Well done Jeff.


----------



## Astral Abyss

hifi59 said:


> I just received my Milo with the 7.5 db attenuator. I too have the He-6(along with the LCD-3&4,he-1k). I would recommend the attenuator. I can't go past the 1oclock position unless I want to pop my ear drums.


 
  
 I'm glad to hear that.  I just ordered my Milo today with the 7.5db attenuation as well.  Sounds like that was a good choice, from what you and @Hansotek are saying.  Jeff told me they spent a lot of time testing and making sure the attenuation circuit didn't affect the sound quality.  I also opted for the Khozmo stepped attenuator with Vishay "naked" Z-Foil resistor for the shunt.  The Vishay is something he said I should try if I wanted the very best sound.  Now I'll have an amp worthy of powering the HE-6, along with my ZMF Ori, and the upcoming Eikon.  
  
 This is looking like it's going to be a good New Year!


----------



## Astral Abyss

I received my Milo.  I got everything setup Sunday night after being out of town all weekend, and now that it's Wednesday, I've had a few days to spend listening to it.  I probably have about 10-12 hours with it so far.
  
 Before I dive into my thoughts and observations, let me give a basic rundown of my audio chain.  It starts with a Windows 10 PC running JRiver 22 and outputting via USB straight into an Audio-gd DAC-19 (10th Anniversary).  The DAC-19 outputs via RCA into the Milo.  I had initially intended to cycle through my headphones one by one in order to see what type of difference I could/would hear with each, starting with the HE-6.  Well, what I've heard has been so far beyond what I was expecting that I'm still on the HE-6, trying to mentally process the sound improvement and being consistently awed with each listening session.  When Jeff Wells told me I haven't heard the HE-6 until I've heard it on the Milo, he was not kidding.  
  
 I just cannot get over the sheer power the bass hits with on the Milo.  From the snap of the snare drum to the crack of the hammer hitting the bass drum, it's all there in perfect detail.  The sound stage is wonderful, and as @Hansotek put it in his review, the attack and decay is very incisive.  With the Milo, I can listen just a bit louder than I'm used to because of the lack of distortion and sibilance.  Cymbal crashes and electric guitar in my metal music collection never sounded better.  Clean and crisp without being harsh.  It almost feels like the Milo rolls off the treble... just slightly... to get rid of the sharp, razorblade highs that usually stings my ears at loud listening levels and ends up forcing me to slowly turn down the volume as fatigue sets in.  I don't know if it's by design or just a byproduct of how clean it sounds.  I've found myself catching phrases and lyrics that I never could quite make out before in music I've heard dozens of times.  Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull, not exactly the easiest person to understand, has spoken to me in a language that more closely resembles English than I've ever heard from him before.  And this might just be my imagination, but I swear I hear some very, very subtle tube-like distortion on some tracks.  Could it be part of the secret-sauce that makes this amp sound so inviting or just my stomach gurgling from the Mexican food I had for lunch?  Don't know.
  
 I'm extremely happy with the upgrades I opted for on the Milo as well.  The 7.5db attenuation was a perfect choice.  It lets me keep my volume at the 11 to 1 o'clock position with the HE-6, depending on the recording.  I have to agree with @Hifi59, that anything past 1 o'clock is likely to pop my eardrums.  The Khozmo attenuator is wonderful to use.  While its 48 volume steps isn't the biggest of the lot out there (my Ragnarok has 64), each step has a slight notch as it engages so I can easily count how far up or down I want to go, and the knob nestles easily in each notch, but skips over them nicely for larger volume changes.  Perfect channel balance down to 0.  Now I can't speak to how the Vishay z-foil shunt resistors on the Khozmo that I opted for are affecting the sound, since I haven't heard the Milo without them, but Jeff Wells said that they add that little extra something, and since he was dead accurate about every other aspect of this amp, I have no reason to doubt him.  Is the Khozmo ($400) and Vishay ($150), a $550 addition to a $1700 amp, necessary?  Not really, but I was shooting for my endgame amp, so I wanted to splurge on the best.  We're still talking about half the price of the next closest headamp in the Wells Audio lineup.  I have no regrets.
  
 I should mention that the Milo never gets especially hot.  The top of the amp and both the heatsinks on the sides do get quite warm, but never what I would consider hot.  Compared to my Ragnarok, that will burn my hand after being on for an hour or so, it felt downright cool.  I feel it's important to state that letting the Milo warm up does definitely improve its sound signature.  It'll sound a bit constrained, with smaller depth, impact, and soundstage if you just turn it on and go.  Give it a good 15-30 minutes to let it warm up and then the magic starts.  You can literally hear the sound open up, almost like a tube that's warmed up to operating temp.  Also, Jeff let me know he burned my Milo in around 40 hours before shipping it, but recommended around 200 hours (if I remember correctly) for it to sound its best.  This is a journey I'm going to enjoy.
  
 In the end though, it's all about the sound, and this amp delivers.  Sorry Ragnarok, you are now my 2nd favorite amp.  The Milo is everything I was hoping it would be, from the unique styling and form factor, to the wonderfully clear, powerful and engaging sound, back to the quality of the attenuator and connections.  Not to mention it came very well packaged in a thick box with molded foam, marked as fragile with red tape on the side that should be kept up, and ready to survive being dropped or kicked on its trip to my doorstep by whatever disinterested or angry delivery person it encountered.  
  
 More to come as I move on to my other headphones and swap out the DAC-19 for the Singularity 19 when it arrives.


----------



## Hifi59

astral abyss said:


> I received my Milo.  I got everything setup Sunday night after being out of town all weekend, and now that it's Wednesday, I've had a few days to spend listening to it.  I probably have about 10-12 hours with it so far.
> 
> Before I dive into my thoughts and observations, let me give a basic rundown of my audio chain.  It starts with a Windows 10 PC running JRiver 22 and outputting via USB straight into an Audio-gd DAC-19 (10th Anniversary).  The DAC-19 outputs via RCA into the Milo.  I had initially intended to cycle through my headphones one by one in order to see what type of difference I could/would hear with each, starting with the HE-6.  Well, what I've heard has been so far beyond what I was expecting that I'm still on the HE-6, trying to mentally process the sound improvement and being consistently awed with each listening session.  When Jeff Wells told me I haven't heard the HE-6 until I've heard it on the Milo, he was not kidding.
> 
> ...




The Milo breathed new life into my Hifiman HE-1k more than any other headphone I own. The HE-6 would be next, followed by my LCD-4,LCD-3 and LCD-XC.


----------



## Hansotek

Awesome impressions Astral Abyss! I can't wait to hear your thoughts on DAC-19 vs. Singularity 19. I'm considering trading mine out as well.


----------



## gr8soundz

astral abyss said:


> I swear I hear some very, very subtle *tube-like distortion* on some tracks.  Could it be part of the secret-sauce that makes this amp sound so inviting
> 
> I should mention that the Milo never gets especially hot.  The top of the amp and both the heatsinks on the sides do get quite warm, but never what I would consider hot.  Compared to my Ragnarok, that will burn my hand after being on for an hour or so, it felt downright cool.  I feel it's important to state that letting the Milo warm up does definitely improve its sound signature.  It'll sound a bit constrained, with smaller depth, impact, and soundstage if you just turn it on and go.  *Give it a good 15-30 minutes to let it warm up and then the magic starts.  You can literally hear the sound open up, almost like a tube that's warmed up to operating temp.*  Also, Jeff let me know he burned my Milo in around 40 hours before shipping it, but recommended around 200 hours (if I remember correctly) for it to sound its best.  This is a journey I'm going to enjoy.


 
  
 Great impressions!
  
 I'd been set on getting another tube hybrid amp but, after reading your feedback, the Milo is back on my list.
  
 Look forward to your thoughts on the Milo with other headphones (and hopefully some pics). Interested to know where the volume dial lands with more sensitive phones.


----------



## Astral Abyss

I'll be trying the Milo with the HD800, LCD-XC, LCD-2, and Ori. Eikon eventually too when it ships.

Hopefully the Singularity will ship soon so I can swap it in as well. 

Thank you all for the feedback.


----------



## Astral Abyss

gr8soundz said:


> Great impressions!
> 
> I'd been set on getting another tube hybrid amp but, after reading your feedback, the Milo is back on my list.
> 
> Look forward to your thoughts on the Milo with other headphones (and hopefully some pics). Interested to know where the volume dial lands with more sensitive phones.


 
  
 Well, please don't take my word for it.  Definitely try it out for yourself if you can.  I think you might find the sound intriguing, if nothing else.  I'll probably have a better feel for the sound once I get some time with the HD800 and Milo together since those are the headphones I use with my Ember II.  The extent of my hybrid tube amps includes the Ember II and Lyr 2.  Not exactly a vast sampling of amps, but I do have experience with a variety of tubes and understand how they affect the sound.


----------



## gr8soundz

Wells Audio is pretty niche and I'm unable to attend meets so I mostly use head-fi and research online before buying.
  
 Next amp will (hopefully) be my end-game. Less fatiguing sound is a requirement so tube/hybrids are a natural fit but seems there are some exceptional solid-state amps out there like the Milo.
  
 I've narrowed it down to a few (iCan Pro, Apex Sangaku); focusing mainly on feedback about their soundstage and overall impact. Thus far the Milo is the only one with multiple 'wow' impressions. Don't plan to spend almost $2K for just a great but clinical amp. All the amps are good but the Milo keeps popping up like it may have that 'extra' I've been searching for soundwise.
  
 Still a few weeks (minimum) away from buying and may only have one shot in this price range (which is already way above my usual audio budget). If I can sort out the attenuation and how well it might pair with my T1.2, the Milo looks more and more enticing.


----------



## drwlf

hifi59 said:


> The Milo breathed new life into my Hifiman HE-1k more than any other headphone I own. The HE-6 would be next, followed by my LCD-4,LCD-3 and LCD-XC.


 
  
  


astral abyss said:


> I'll be trying the Milo with the HD800, LCD-XC, LCD-2, and Ori. Eikon eventually too when it ships.
> 
> Hopefully the Singularity will ship soon so I can swap it in as well.
> 
> Thank you all for the feedback.


 
  
 Will be more than interested in the LCD-XC/X-part, as the sensitivity issue intrigues and troubles me, along with how to actually tackle it.
 Lowering the digital source volume is not a route I would ever go.


----------



## Hifi59

gr8soundz said:


> Wells Audio is pretty niche and I'm unable to attend meets so I mostly use head-fi and research online before buying.
> 
> Next amp will (hopefully) be my end-game. Less fatiguing sound is a requirement so tube/hybrids are a natural fit but seems there are some exceptional solid-state amps out there like the Milo.
> 
> ...




I read a review of the iCan Pro vs the Audio-GD Master 9 amp. Reviewer liked his master 9 better overall. (Headmania)
I've heard the Master 9 at several meets. As good as it sounds,and it sounds damned good, I am quite confident that the Milo is even better. I am relying on my audio memory here and it has yet to fail me. My $.02.


----------



## Jozurr

Has anyone been able to compare this to the Ragnarok?


----------



## Hifi59

jozurr said:


> Has anyone been able to compare this to the Ragnarok?




While I have not directly compared the two, I personally have not doubt that the Milo sounds better than the Rag. I heard the Ragnarok at a meet and was more impressed by its power than its sound. With all the amps that I've heard (Using LCD-3 & 4,he-6, he-1k amongst others) I've consistently preferred the Audio -GD Master 9 ( and Burson for different reasons) until I heard and purchased the Milo.


----------



## mwhals

jozurr said:


> Has anyone been able to compare this to the Ragnarok?




The owner of this post in this thread has the Ragnarok, so you might PM them.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/820424/wells-audio-milo-impressions-and-discussion-thread/90#post_13185997


----------



## The Piper

Hifi59-I'm glad you are enjoying the new Milo and you should continue to be surprised and thrilled over the remaining 160 hours as the Milo marches towards ultimate burn in. It will get deeper, clearer and smoother until the final real magic at 200 hours. What you describe as a possible slight rolled treble is actually the lack of distortion you and many other have come to consider detailed transients. Real life has no sizzle or sibilance why should recordings. You are actually hearing natural detail. If you listen very closely everything is there and nothing is missing but harshness, sizzle, edginess, peakiness and graininess. It is distortion that causes listener fatigue when the brain can no longer compensate and protect you against the distortion. The tube like sound signature is actually more a case of low noise and distortions along with parts chosen for their naturalness and musicality. Most solid state designs use a lot of industrial grade parts that usually impart a dry and grainy signature without sweetness and richness. I thank you for sharing your impressions with the public and I am very happy you are enjoying the Milo.
  
 Jeff Wells


----------



## The Piper

After a number of consumers that noted the problems the high gain is with more efficient headphones we now offer a 7.5db and a 12db attenuation feature. Please see the website for the options.
  
 Jeff Wells


----------



## Jozurr

hifi59 said:


> While I have not directly compared the two, I personally have not doubt that the Milo sounds better than the Rag. I heard the Ragnarok at a meet and was more impressed by its power than its sound. With all the amps that I've heard (Using LCD-3 & 4,he-6, he-1k amongst others) I've consistently preferred the Audio -GD Master 9 ( and Burson for different reasons) until I heard and purchased the Milo.


 
  
 I actually quite like my Rag. Although I've not heard the M9 side by side with the Rag, I didnt really like the M9 as much when I heard it. Would be interesting to hear the Milo somewhere.


----------



## gr8soundz

hifi59 said:


> I read a review of the iCan Pro vs the Audio-GD Master 9 amp. Reviewer liked his master 9 better overall. (Headmania)
> I've heard the Master 9 at several meets. As good as it sounds,and it sounds damned good, I am quite confident that the Milo is even better. I am relying on my audio memory here and it has yet to fail me. My $.02.


 
  
 Think I read that same review more than once. Most (of the few) iCan Pro reviews are like that; good but not gushing. One reason why I keep going back n forth considering that amp.
  
 Focusing more on the Milo now. Got a good tube buffer/preamp that I can use if needed and have time to decide on the attenuation option between now and when I'm able to order. Still think it should be a no-cost option but guess we can't have it all.
  
 Post # 2000! over.....


----------



## heliosphann

More I read about the Milo, the more I want one. Especially since it sounds like it really does well with the HEK and HE6 Anyone want to let me borrow theirs? lol


----------



## Hansotek

heliosphann said:


> More I read about the Milo, the more I want one. Especially since it sounds like it really does well with the HEK and HE6 Anyone want to let me borrow theirs? lol




I'm going to bring mine to the Chicago meet next weekend, if you want to come.


----------



## heliosphann

hansotek said:


> I'm going to bring mine to the Chicago meet next weekend, if you want to come.


 
 AH! I need to keep better track of the meets. Unfortunately I work Saturdays, so I have to plan ahead to get the day off. Maybe next to around.


----------



## Hansotek

heliosphann said:


> AH! I need to keep better track of the meets. Unfortunately I work Saturdays, so I have to plan ahead to get the day off. Maybe next to around.




For Chicago, there is a thread completely dedicated to alerting people when a new meet has been scheduled and linking to the respective meet thread. If you think there is a chance you might ever attend one, you should sub to it. http://www.head-fi.org/t/779645/chicago-area-head-fi-meet-announcement-thread


----------



## Jozurr

There are like almost no meets here in SF! Wouldve loved to hear the Milo.


----------



## Hansotek

jozurr said:


> There are like almost no meets here in SF! Wouldve loved to hear the Milo.


 
  
 I think they were at the last Head-Fi event in San Francisco. Wells Audio is just down the road an hour or so in Campbell, CA.


----------



## mwhals

Really thinking about ordering this amp to pair with a Metrum Musette DAC. I would power ZMF Ori, Atticus and Eikon headphones with it. My computer will be the source. I am just so close to pulling the trigger after weeks of study and PMs with fine head-fi members. 

I wonder what the lead time is for one and guess phone is the only way to order (that I have found).

How hot do the heatsinks get?


----------



## Hansotek

mwhals said:


> Really thinking about ordering this amp to pair with a Metrum Musette DAC. I would power ZMF Ori, Atticus and Eikon headphones with it. My computer will be the source. I am just so close to pulling the trigger after weeks of study and PMs with fine head-fi members.
> 
> I wonder what the lead time is for one and guess phone is the only way to order (that I have found).
> 
> How hot do the heatsinks get?




The heat sinks don't get very hot. The Milo actually runs pretty cool in general.


----------



## mwhals

hansotek said:


> The heat sinks don't get very hot. The Milo actually runs pretty cool in general.




That is good, because if I get it my high dollar NEC monitors will be pretty near it. I think I can place it toward the front of my desk and the Metrum Musette under my monitors. The computer is left of the position I would put the Milo. Still thinking a shorter amp would be better with one DAC under the left montitor and the amp under the right monitor. Tough decision without being able to see and hear them. My desk is below:


----------



## mwhals

Is phone the only way to order a Milo and what is the usual time it takes for it to ship?


----------



## ufospls2

mwhals said:


> Is phone the only way to order a Milo and what is the usual time it takes for it to ship?


 
 You can email Jeff, and let him know you want to order etc. then call him with your C.C. information. Thats what I did


----------



## Jozurr

ufospls2 said:


> You can email Jeff, and let him know you want to order etc. then call him with your C.C. information. Thats what I did


 
  
 Did you end up selling your Milo for the Headtrip? What are you using them with?


----------



## Astral Abyss

mwhals said:


> Is phone the only way to order a Milo and what is the usual time it takes for it to ship?


 
  
 Mine took about 3 weeks, but that included both Christmas and New Years holidays and waiting time for the Khozmo attenuator and Vishay z-foils to arrive.  I'd be willing to say it normally is a lot faster.  I was in no hurry though.  But let me just say, it's worth the wait.  Sounds wonderful, even better than my Ragnarok, more musical and natural, and that's high praise as I love my Ragnarok as well.
  
 And yep, you'll have to call.  You'll be dealing with Jeff directly.  This is a small operation and you get personal service.  It's your chance to talk to him and talk about any options you want.


----------



## mwhals

What does the $400 Khozmo attenuator improve upon a Milo without it.

How does the Wells Audio house sound compare to the Cavalli Audio house sound?


----------



## Jozurr

astral abyss said:


> Mine took about 3 weeks, but that included both Christmas and New Years holidays and waiting time for the Khozmo attenuator and Vishay z-foils to arrive.  I'd be willing to say it normally is a lot faster.  I was in no hurry though.  But let me just say, it's worth the wait.  Sounds wonderful, even better than my Ragnarok, more musical and natural, and that's high praise as I love my Ragnarok as well.
> 
> And yep, you'll have to call.  You'll be dealing with Jeff directly.  This is a small operation and you get personal service.  It's your chance to talk to him and talk about any options you want.


 
  
 Would love to hear your detailed impressions of the Milo vs the Rag. I really like the Rag too.


----------



## Astral Abyss

jozurr said:


> Would love to hear your detailed impressions of the Milo vs the Rag. I really like the Rag too.


 
  
 I would love to offer a detailed review, but I'm not really the best at that type of thing.  Also, my Rag is connected to a Yggy and my Milo is connected to a DAC-19, so that's a consideration as well.  I only listened to the HE-6 on the Yggy/Rag combo for a few days before I moved the HE-6 over to the DAC-19/C-2 combo that I actually liked better with it.  I think it had more to do with the DAC than it did the amp.  But keep in mind, my HE-6 is unmodded, so it's got a lot of treble energy and a hot setup is not very satisfying on it.  I think the DAC-19/C-2 took that treble energy down to a reasonable level and let me really enjoy the HE-6.  Unfortunately, although the C-2 is more than capable of driving the HE-6, it just didn't have any "guts".  That's when I started looking around for other options, which was originally going to be the Master 9, but the Milo really caught my eye.  The DAC-19/ Milo combo is really a great synergy.  The sound is smooth and non-fatiguing.  Powerful and detailed with amazing punch and headroom, same as the Ragnarok, but without that harshness the Ragnarok can have.  Also, the Milo has a more natural, warm sound to it than the Ragnarok does.  It's perfect though.  I listen to a lot of metal music, pretty much every kind of metal you can think of, so over aggressive treble is not my friend as that gets painful after a very short time.  But pair the Ragnarok with a headphone like the LCD-2 or ZMF Ori, that tend to be a bit dark, and suddenly it's a perfect sound.  I can listen to the Ori on the Yggy/Rag for hours and it's wonderful.  An hour with Yggy/Rag with the HE-6 made my ears hurt.  But that's the great thing... I've got options. It makes no sense to me to buy two of the same sounding amp (unless I'm selling one).  So now what I have is two different setups with two different types of sound that I can enjoy depending on my mood and pair with different headphone sound signatures. (or depending on whether I want to lay down as one setup is in my computer room/office and one is on my workbench in my mancave, which has a futon in it)
  
 Anyway, that's about the best I can do for now.  Hopefully that helps a little bit.


----------



## Hansotek

Wait, maybe I'm misreading context clues but... Astral Abyss, have you not listened the Ori on the Milo yet???

Oh, I can't wait for this... they're, uh.... really, really good together.


----------



## Astral Abyss

hansotek said:


> Wait, maybe I'm misreading context clues but... @Astral Abyss, have you not listened the Ori on the Milo yet???
> 
> Oh, I can't wait for this... they're, uh.... really, really good together.


 
  
 Ummm, not yet.  Am I in for a surprise?


----------



## mwhals

Just sent Jeff an email with some questions.


----------



## mwhals

astral abyss said:


> Ummm, not yet.  Am I in for a surprise?




From what Hansotek wrote in the Ori impressions thread, you are in for a surprise.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/769682/zmf-ori-omni-upcoming-semi-open-flagship/1755#post_13057227


----------



## Hansotek

mwhals said:


> From what Hansotek wrote in the Ori impressions thread, you are in for a surprise.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/769682/zmf-ori-omni-upcoming-semi-open-flagship/1755#post_13057227




Lol! Apparently we've had this conversation before Astral Abyss! That certainly caught me by surprise, hahaha.

I stand by my words - IMO, the Wells Amps take the Ori to another level. zach915m is a Milo owner as well. I honestly haven't paired it with a planar it didn't like.


----------



## mwhals

Zach told me "The Milo is amazing for everthing." That should tell us something!


----------



## Hifi59

mwhals said:


> What does the $400 Khozmo attenuator improve upon a Milo without it.
> 
> How does the Wells Audio house sound compare to the Cavalli Audio house sound?




According to Jeff, the Khozmo offers even more resolution to the already resolute Milo with stock volume control.
It also has 48 steps instead of continuous motion like the stock Tocos attenuator . The Khozmo also improves channel imbalance at very low volume levels. This is not an issue though with the stock volume as you would never listen to music at such a low volume where the imbalance occurs with the stock volume. Make no mistake, the stock Tocos attenuator bests much of the competition in head to head shootouts from my understanding.

How is sounds vs the Cavalli? This is a quote from EnjoyTheMusic review (Hansotek)

"The clarity and separation from activity in the midbass region is easily the cleanest you will find at this price, even besting my more expensive Cavalli Liquid Crimson ($2,999) reference amplifier by a healthy margin. This was especially apparent when the Milo was paired with the JPS Labs Abyss AB-1266. The Milo allowed me to pick out sub-bass detail in complex passages in a way I've only heard on far, far more expensive amplifiers."


----------



## Hansotek

hifi59 said:


> According to Jeff, the Khozmo offers even more resolution to the already resolute Milo with stock volume control.
> It also has 48 steps instead of continuous motion like the stock Tocos attenuator . The Khozmo also improves channel imbalance at very low volume levels. This is not an issue though with the stock volume as you would never listen to music at such a low volume where the imbalance occurs with the stock volume. Make no mistake, the stock Tocos attenuator bests much of the competition in head to head shootouts from my understanding.
> 
> How is sounds vs the Cavalli? This is a quote from EnjoyTheMusic review (Hansotek)
> ...




Yeah, the Crimson and the Milo are quite close overall in quality, though they have completely different sounds. The Crimson is very smooth and romantic with a very warm tone. Bass, etc. is very organic sounding, which does an excellent job of tricking your brain into thinking you are in the room with the band.

In contrast, the Milo is crisper, more neutral and has a bit of a "reference" sound. On it's face, this would make it sound like it is the more "boring" of the two amps, but the difference here is the Milo's incredible dynamics. I've paid Jeff Wells this compliment so many times (on multiple amps), but his stuff just has the best dynamics, punch and impact. So while it has that reference neutrality to it, at the end of the day, it is just fun as hell.

If I had the budget to keep them both, I totally would have, but the Milo pairs significantly better with my best headphone (the Abyss) and it still drives the HD800 very well. The Crimson, on the other hand, paired slightly better with the HD800, but just couldn't drive the Abyss anywhere near as good as the Milo. I love the Crimson, but keeping the Milo was a very easy decision.


----------



## grizzlybeast

hansotek said:


> hifi59 said:
> 
> 
> > According to Jeff, the Khozmo offers even more resolution to the already resolute Milo with stock volume control.
> ...


 
 okay then. Now I get it. I may have over looked that part of the amp. But that is what I look for.


----------



## ufospls2

jozurr said:


> Did you end up selling your Milo for the Headtrip? What are you using them with?


 
 I did indeed, but I've been away from home so the Headtrip is being delivered on Thursday. Very excited! I'll be using it with my LCD-4's and HD800S. My Abyss are up for sale to help pay for the Headtrip, but I will probably buy another pair later down the line as they are my favourite headphones. I know its kind of a backwards way to go about it, but it works for me.


----------



## mwhals

I have decided on the Milo, but am now deciding if the Khozmo is worth the extra $400 over the stock Milo.


----------



## drwlf

mwhals said:


> I have decided on the Milo, but am now deciding if the Khozmo is worth the extra $400 over the stock Milo.


 
  
 Decided on the gain? These decisions interest me


----------



## mwhals

drwlf said:


> Decided on the gain? These decisions interest me




Jeff told me the 12 db reduction would work with all headphones, but have trouble with the Abyss and Hifiman HE-6. Jeff recommended the 12 db reduction for ZMF headphones, which I own and have on pre-order.

I sent him another email to see if the 7.5 reduction gives enough volume control for more efficient headphones while still working with the Abyss and Hifiman HE-6.


----------



## drwlf

mwhals said:


> Jeff told me the 12 db reduction would work with all headphones, but have trouble with the Abyss and Hifiman HE-6. Jeff recommended the 12 db reduction for ZMF headphones, which I own and have on pre-order.
> 
> I sent him another email to see if the 7.5 reduction gives enough volume control for more efficient headphones while still working with the Abyss and Hifiman HE-6. I will edit this post with his reply.


 
  
 Yup, the 7.5 has been echoed here on several occasions to work with HE-6:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/820424/wells-audio-milo-impressions-and-discussion-thread/90#post_13104870
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/820424/wells-audio-milo-impressions-and-discussion-thread/90#post_13185997
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/820424/wells-audio-milo-impressions-and-discussion-thread/90#post_13096773
 Thanks @Hansotek, @Astral Abyss, @Hifi59, and others I missed them.
  
 I'm just wondering how the 7.5 fares with higher sensitivity cans (for example LCD-X/XC), as I'm not too fond of lowering the source volume digitally


----------



## mwhals

mwhals said:


> Jeff told me the 12 db reduction would work with all headphones, but have trouble with the Abyss and Hifiman HE-6. Jeff recommended the 12 db reduction for ZMF headphones, which I own and have on pre-order.
> 
> I sent him another email to see if the 7.5 reduction gives enough volume control for more efficient headphones while still working with the Abyss and Hifiman HE-6. I will edit this post with his reply.




Jeff got back to me. He said *"The Khozmo has a more aggressive taper to it so I am more comfortable with the 7.5db attenuation with the Khozmo. With the Tocos it is more linear with more gain at the beginning so I am more comfortable with the 12db with it, especially with the ZMF headphones or any 100db headphone."*

So the 12 or 7.5 db depends on if one gets the Khozmo or not.


----------



## drwlf

mwhals said:


> Jeff got back to me. He said *"The Khozmo has a more aggressive taper to it so I am more comfortable with the 7.5db attenuation with the Khozmo. With the Tocos it is more linear with more gain at the beginning so I am more comfortable with the 12db with it, especially with the ZMF headphones or any 100db headphone."*
> 
> So the 12 or 7.5 db depends on if one gets the Khozmo or not.


 

 That's good info, thanks.


----------



## Hifi59

drwlf said:


> Yup, the 7.5 has been echoed here on several occasions to work with HE-6:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/820424/wells-audio-milo-impressions-and-discussion-thread/90#post_13104870
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/820424/wells-audio-milo-impressions-and-discussion-thread/90#post_13185997
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/820424/wells-audio-milo-impressions-and-discussion-thread/90#post_13096773
> ...




I just received my replacement unit because I wanted the Khozmo attenuator. While I was at it, I requested the 12db attenuator. I have the LCD-4 and Hifiman he-6. Using my iPad with its volume at max streaming Tidal and Spotify, the He-6 still goes plenty loud! It is uncomfortably loud if Milo volume also at max. Under these conditions, the 1 o'clock position is about as loud as I can comfortably listen to it. This is perfect for me as my goal was to be able to open up the amp as much as possible for max dynamic range when listening to inefficient headphones and yet be able to have some play with the volume knob with efficient phones such as my LCD-XC and Zmf Eikons when they arrive.


----------



## mwhals

hifi59 said:


> I just received my replacement unit because I wanted the Khozmo attenuator. While I was at it, I requested the 12db attenuator. I have the LCD-4 and Hifiman he-6. Using my iPad with its volume at max streaming Tidal and Spotify, the He-6 still goes plenty loud! It is uncomfortably loud if Milo volume also at max. Under these conditions, the 1 o'clock position is about as loud as I can comfortably listen to it. This is perfect for me as my goal was to be able to open up the amp as much as possible for max dynamic range when listening to inefficient headphones and yet be able to have some play with the volume knob with efficient phones such as my LCD-XC and Zmf Eikons when they arrive.




Did you notice a sound improvement with the Khozmo?


----------



## Hifi59

mwhals said:


> Did you notice a sound improvement with the Khozmo?




I do. Its somewhat more resolute sounding as Jeff claims. I listened to a lot of select songs just before the swap between Milos to minimize a possible placebo effect and it does sound a touch more effortless and open to my ear. It's nothing groundbreaking, but it's noticeable.


----------



## mwhals

hifi59 said:


> I do. Its somewhat more resolute sounding as Jeff claims. I listened to a lot of select songs just before the swap between Milos to minimize a possible placebo effect and it does sound a touch more effortless and open to my ear. It's nothing groundbreaking, but it's noticeable.




So over all in your opinion, was it worth $400 as I think for volume control?


----------



## Hifi59

mwhals said:


> So over all in your opinion, was it worth $400 as I think for volume control?




Well, if your like me and like a product so well that you want it to be all it can be, then yea, it's worth it. On the other hand, if value plays a larger role in your listening pleasure then the stock Milo still punches well above its price point and you still get to enjoy great sound while saving a few hundred bills. I would also add that if you one to always wonder if the grass is greener on the other side and will always have that itch to try the Khozmo, then I suggest doing so from the get go. I love its sound with both attenuators.


----------



## mwhals

I will need to save a couple of hundred dollars in disposable cash to get the upgrades but I do have a birthday coming up!


----------



## drwlf

hifi59 said:


> I just received my replacement unit because I wanted the Khozmo attenuator. While I was at it, I requested the 12db attenuator. I have the LCD-4 and Hifiman he-6. Using my iPad with its volume at max streaming Tidal and Spotify, the He-6 still goes plenty loud! It is uncomfortably loud if Milo volume also at max. Under these conditions, the 1 o'clock position is about as loud as I can comfortably listen to it. This is perfect for me as my goal was to be able to open up the amp as much as possible for max dynamic range when listening to inefficient headphones and yet be able to have some play with the volume knob with efficient phones such as my LCD-XC and Zmf Eikons when they arrive.


 

 Thank you for this.
 Probably the most direct reply I've ever gotten here, with examples of the specific dilemmas I've been wondering!


----------



## Astral Abyss

drwlf said:


> Yup, the 7.5 has been echoed here on several occasions to work with HE-6:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/820424/wells-audio-milo-impressions-and-discussion-thread/90#post_13104870
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/820424/wells-audio-milo-impressions-and-discussion-thread/90#post_13185997
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/820424/wells-audio-milo-impressions-and-discussion-thread/90#post_13096773
> ...


 
  
 I tried the LCD-XC with my Milo today.  (7.5db attenuation + Khozmo)  Volume was at about 9 o'clock.  Anything more and it got too loud for me.  Hit like a truck.


----------



## drwlf

astral abyss said:


> I tried the LCD-XC with my Milo today.  (7.5db attenuation + Khozmo)  Volume was at about 9 o'clock.  Anything more and it got too loud for me.  Hit like a truck.


 
  
 Good to know!
 If the 12db attenuation provides even better volume control with high sensitivity wonders, and can drive the HE-6 to uncomfortable levels whilst retaining authority, this "little" thing seems like a miracle.


----------



## mwhals

Just placed my order for a Milo with the Khozmo, Naked Z Foil resistors and the 7.5db attenuation circuit.

To go with it, I ordered a Metrum Musette in black.

Now the wait begins.


----------



## Astral Abyss

mwhals said:


> Just placed my order for a Milo with the Khozmo, Naked Z Foil resistors and the 7.5db attenuation circuit.
> 
> To go with it, I ordered a Metrum Musette in black.
> 
> Now the wait begins.


 
  
 You really went all in.  Wish I could see your face when you listen to that combo for the first time.  It's going to be awesome.


----------



## mwhals

astral abyss said:


> You really went all in.  Wish I could see your face when you listen to that combo for the first time.  It's going to be awesome.




If I was going to spend near $2000 on a headphone amp, I decided I wanted the best sound possible, so I got the upgrades. Otherwise, I would always be wondering.


----------



## The Piper

We are based in San Jose. Must be fairly close to you. If you are interested in a possible purchase we could work out a home audition probably.


----------



## ufospls2

Man, I loved my Milo, but if any of you are considering moving up from it to a different amp, don't discount the Enigma or Headtrip. The vocals are so clear, they just float out of the headphones. That being said, the Milo was a lot of what the Headtrip is, you certainly don't miss out on much. Given the price difference, the Milo is a bargain!


----------



## Hansotek

ufospls2 said:


> Man, I loved my Milo, but if any of you are considering moving up from it to a different amp, don't discount the Enigma or Headtrip. The vocals are so clear, they just float out of the headphones. That being said, the Milo was a lot of what the Headtrip is, you certainly don't miss out on much. Given the price difference, the Milo is a bargain!




Totally agree. All three are incredible, IMO.


----------



## Jozurr

If someone ends up not liking theirs and wishes to sell it, do PM me.


----------



## mwhals

jozurr said:


> If someone ends up not liking theirs and wishes to sell it, do PM me.




I bet it is highly unlikely that someone won't like it.


----------



## Hansotek

jozurr said:


> If someone ends up not liking theirs and wishes to sell it, do PM me.


 
  
 Didn't Wells just offer you an audition like 5 posts ago?


----------



## Jozurr

hansotek said:


> Didn't Wells just offer you an audition like 5 posts ago?


 
  
 I didn't know that post was directed at me (which I just read), and secondly I dont mind buying slightly used for a cut in price. I don't end up keeping most of my stuff for long so I hate to lose a lot of money for these "trials" if I buy them at full price. Do you buy everything new?


----------



## heliosphann

jozurr said:


> I didn't know that post was directed at me (which I just read), and secondly I dont mind buying slightly used for a cut in price. I don't end up keeping most of my stuff for long so I hate to lose a lot of money for these "trials" if I buy them at full price. Do you buy everything new?


 
 That's kinda where I'm at right now. I was very close to buying one, but heard from someone I trust if might not be that much of an upgrade from one of my amps I already have. Hate to drop over $2k on an amp and then sell it at a loss if I don't like it.


----------



## Hansotek

jozurr said:


> I didn't know that post was directed at me (which I just read), and secondly I dont mind buying slightly used for a cut in price. I don't end up keeping most of my stuff for long so I hate to lose a lot of money for these "trials" if I buy them at full price. Do you buy everything new?




I buy lots of stuff used. Just saying, I think that offer was directed at you and it might be a while before you come across a used one... but who knows?


----------



## mwhals

Looking through the threads, there are only a handful of us who posted in this thread. I am glad to be among those that are in the "club".


----------



## Hansotek

heliosphann said:


> That's kinda where I'm at right now. I was very close to buying one, but heard from someone I trust if might not be that much of an upgrade from one of my amps I already have. Hate to drop over $2k on an amp and then sell it at a loss if I don't like it.




I don't know man... I listened the the HE-6 on the Milo at the meet this weekend, it might have been the best I've heard it sound on a headphone amp.


----------



## Hifi59

heliosphann said:


> That's kinda where I'm at right now. I was very close to buying one, but heard from someone I trust if might not be that much of an upgrade from one of my amps I already have. Hate to drop over $2k on an amp and then sell it at a loss if I don't like it.




I don't think that there's any question if you'll like it, it's a question of whether or not it's worth the possibility of the small difference in sound quality vs the Audio-GD or Crimson that you own. Those are nice amps that you have. I've heard the Audio GD master 9 several times. It has a sweet,powerful and smooth sound signature. I suspect (if audio memory serves) that the Milo is very similar but a bit more engaging. They're both very powerful, so that's a non issue. The Milo is a great fit for me because of its sound, power to drive my inefficient headphones AND it's small footprint. The 3 year warranty is great also.


----------



## mwhals

I think the Milo will be a great amp for me. Having ordered an upgraded version of one and a DAC, I am now deciding on cables. First came headphones, then Amp/Dac and then cables lastly.


----------



## mwhals

mwhals said:


> I think the Milo will be a great amp for me. Having ordered an upgraded version of one and a DAC, I am now deciding on cables. First came headphones, then Amp/Dac and then cables lastly.




Cables ordered, so now it is a waiting game.


----------



## odanovich

Hey fellow Milo owners! I just placed my order with Jeff Wells over the phone on monday and im very excited to experience the Milo for the first time!

i do have a question though, i travel back and forth between 2 offices and my home and was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for a carry case that would protect the Milo while I move around.

Let me know!

Thanks


----------



## mwhals

odanovich said:


> Hey fellow Milo owners! I just placed my order with Jeff Wells over the phone on monday and im very excited to experience the Milo for the first time!
> 
> i do have a question though, i travel back and forth between 2 offices and my home and was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for a carry case that would protect the Milo while I move around.
> 
> ...




Pelican makes some bigger cases with foam that can be customized. Check out Pelican photography cases with the foam. Personally, I would leave the Milo at home and have a cheaper amp at work.


----------



## odanovich

mwhals said:


> Pelican makes some bigger cases with foam that can be customized. Check out Pelican photography cases with the foam. Personally, I would leave the Milo at home and have a cheaper amp at work.




Thanks for the tip! At this time I'd rather save up for a premium DAC instead of buying a second AMP for work.. I currently work from 2 seperate offices (Mon Wed Fri at office A) (Tues Thurs at office B).. And I definitely dont want/need 3 amps. Lol. So for myself a Rugged Travel Companion such as a customized pelican case makes the most sense.

Thanks again!


----------



## Audio-Phile

Wow, so glad I found this thread. Had heard good things about this amp before but now seems like the way to go for my LCD4s. Was set on a Pro iCan, but like someone else said...no one has reacted anything like as strongly to the sound of that amp vs the Milo. I feel like this may be the direction I go in....


----------



## mwhals

audio-phile said:


> Wow, so glad I found this thread. Had heard good things about this amp before but now seems like the way to go for my LCD4s. Was set on a Pro iCan, but like someone else said...no one has reacted anything like as strongly to the sound of that amp vs the Milo. I feel like this may be the direction I go in....




I too was considering the ifi Audio iCan Pro before ultimately ordering the Milo.


----------



## Audio-Phile

If anyone in the Chicago area has a Milo, I'd love to take a listen with my headphones if at all possible. After all the reading I've done...I really need to hear this thing.


----------



## Aleatorius

audio-phile said:


> If anyone in the Chicago area has a Milo, I'd love to take a listen with my headphones if at all possible. After all the reading I've done...I really need to hear this thing.




I'm pretty sure zach915m has the original one (non attenuated) so you could possibly demo his cans and the Milo if no one else is willing or able to.


----------



## Hansotek

audio-phile said:


> If anyone in the Chicago area has a Milo, I'd love to take a listen with my headphones if at all possible. After all the reading I've done...I really need to hear this thing.




Man, we just had it at the head-fi meet last weekend! Are you subscribed to the Chicago Head-fi meet announcement thread?


----------



## Audio-Phile

hansotek said:


> Man, we just had it at the head-fi meet last weekend! Are you subscribed to the Chicago Head-fi meet announcement thread?




Are you serious? Now I feel silly....I've been intending to look for some such meetup but haven't had the time. To be honest I wouldn't have been able to attend anyway, but frustrating that I didn't know about it. I am not subscribed to the thread, will have to go find it.


----------



## Hansotek

audio-phile said:


> Are you serious? Now I feel silly....I've been intending to look for some such meetup but haven't had the time. To be honest I wouldn't have been able to attend anyway, but frustrating that I didn't know about it. I am not subscribed to the thread, will have to go find it.




Here, subscribe to this thread. Please read the first post. This will keep you in the loop on the Chicago events.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/779645/chicago-area-head-fi-meet-announcement-thread


----------



## odanovich

Jeff just finished building it! I receive it on Wednesday! Woooo! Ill be sure to leave my first impressions


----------



## ProfFalkin

mwhals, Hansotek, grizzlybeast, etc... 

You guys suck. I blame you for this.

That is all.

Carry on.

(Putting my Milo order in tomorrow, hopefully. The Jotunheim is good with the Eikon, but I want great.)

It is going to take me a while to save for a DAC upgrade. Have Bifrost MB as a hold me over. Any suggestions for a good Milo/Eikon pairing?

Thanks guys.



You bastards. LOL


----------



## Hansotek

proffalkin said:


> mwhals, Hansotek, grizzlybeast, etc...
> 
> You guys suck. I blame you for this.
> 
> ...




You'll thank us later.


----------



## grizzlybeast

ughghg...I am still back and forth with this thing...make it stop. 
  
 It has too much gain and I want to know how black the background is. I want grainless, layered, refined, and *BLACK. *
  
 Does anyone have any comments on those aspects?


----------



## Hansotek

grizzlybeast said:


> ughghg...I am still back and forth with this thing...make it stop.
> 
> It has too much gain and I want to know how black the background is. I want grainless, layered, refined, and *BLACK. *
> 
> Does anyone have any comments on those aspects?




Well, you could always get the -12.5dB attenuator and I'm betting the Khozmo helps too. I haven't tested with either, FYI, so I'll let others weigh in on those.


----------



## gr8soundz

grizzlybeast said:


> ughghg...I am still back and forth with this thing...make it stop.
> 
> It has too much gain and I want to know how black the background is. I want grainless, layered, refined, and *BLACK. *
> 
> Does anyone have any comments on those aspects?


 
  
 0.1 ohms output impedance is about the lowest I've seen for a headphone amp with this kind of power. 
  
 Attentuation is extra (unfortunately).
  
 I'm just waiting til I can save up enough to place an order.


----------



## drwlf

If there's more impressions with 12dB and HE-6, having enough gain, they're more than welcome.
 I'm 85% sold as it is


----------



## mwhals

proffalkin said:


> mwhals, Hansotek, grizzlybeast, etc...
> 
> You guys suck. I blame you for this.
> 
> ...




Resistance is futile.


----------



## Hifi59

grizzlybeast said:


> ughghg...I am still back and forth with this thing...make it stop.
> 
> It has too much gain and I want to know how black the background is. I want grainless, layered, refined, and *BLACK. *
> 
> Does anyone have any comments on those aspects?




It is grainless
Music is layered
It's is refined sounding
It is blackity black

I have the 12 db attenuation with Khozmo attenuator. I have the Hifiman HE-6 and LCD-4. The Milo drives them both with ease and louder than I personally can listen to.
This also allows me to have some play with the volume control when using more efficient headphones.


----------



## Hifi59

drwlf said:


> If there's more impressions with 12dB and HE-6, having enough gain, they're more than welcome.
> I'm 85% sold as it is




I know that I chimed in on this earlier but right now with my iPad at max volume streaming Tidal HiFi, I cannot listen beyond the 12 o'clock position with my LCD-4! With my He-6 it would be at approximately the 1 o'clock position maybe 2 o'clock at most! This is for the loudest I could ever tolerate for up to a maybe a minute or so. My normal listening level is more like the 10 o'clock for the LCD-4 and 11 or 12 o'clock for for he6. These are my most difficult to drive headphones.

I'm using the Dac out from my Burson CV2+ headphone amp. Tomorrow I will have the new Oppo Sonica Dac.
I will test it with both fixed level and variable level out and post here to let you know if volume levels as I stated change.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Anyone thought about putting a preamp like the Saga in front of this instead of getting the attenuation option? (I already have a saga, so I thought I'd ask.) Set it to half volume, and control volume on the Milo. Thoughts on how that would end up sounding?


----------



## grizzlybeast

HE-9 vs Milo 
  
 thats the thought right now....


----------



## Hifi59

grizzlybeast said:


> HE-9 vs Milo
> 
> thats the thought right now....




Well, I've heard the Master 9 on several occasions.. It's an awesome sounding amp. Smooth and authoritive. If auditory memory serve, I would give the Milo the edge for the same reasons plus that extra something that it has. Both very powerful.


----------



## mwhals

grizzlybeast said:


> HE-9 vs Milo
> 
> thats the thought right now....




Three year warranty with the Milo and a USA company instead of foreign. This is advantageous if warranty work is needed due to not having to ship it overseas.


----------



## grizzlybeast

The HE-9 is a preamp and also can drive sensitive cans as well with easy play on the knob. I do want a preamp.


----------



## gr8soundz

proffalkin said:


> Anyone thought about putting a preamp like the Saga in front of this instead of getting the attenuation option? (I already have a saga, so I thought I'd ask.) Set it to half volume, and control volume on the Milo. Thoughts on how that would end up sounding?


 
  
 I was thinking of a similar setup but instead would use an iFi iTube(2) as a preamp.
  
 That could also provide the more hybrid sound I prefer but, assuming I'm able to order a Milo, I'd probably try it first without any preamp. Mr. Wells mentioned (some pages back I think) that distortion can cause listening fatigue. Tubes can mask unwanted distortions hence why I like them so I'm very interested to hear an amp like the Milo which is designed for almost no distortion.
  
 Who knows, maybe I won't need any tubes......
  
 EDIT: I found the post:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/820424/wells-audio-milo-impressions-and-discussion-thread/105#post_13195741
  


the piper said:


> Hifi59-I'm glad you are enjoying the new Milo and you should continue to be surprised and thrilled over the remaining 160 hours as the Milo marches towards ultimate burn in. It will get deeper, clearer and smoother until the final real magic at 200 hours. What you describe as a possible slight rolled treble is actually the lack of distortion you and many other have come to consider detailed transients. Real life has no sizzle or sibilance why should recordings. You are actually hearing natural detail. If you listen very closely everything is there and nothing is missing but harshness, sizzle, edginess, peakiness and graininess. It is distortion that causes listener fatigue when the brain can no longer compensate and protect you against the distortion. The tube like sound signature is actually more a case of low noise and distortions along with parts chosen for their naturalness and musicality. Most solid state designs use a lot of industrial grade parts that usually impart a dry and grainy signature without sweetness and richness. I thank you for sharing your impressions with the public and I am very happy you are enjoying the Milo.
> 
> Jeff Wells


----------



## drwlf

hifi59 said:


> I know that I chimed in on this earlier but right now with my iPad at max volume streaming Tidal HiFi, I cannot listen beyond the 12 o'clock position with my LCD-4! With my He-6 it would be at approximately the 1 o'clock position maybe 2 o'clock at most! This is for the loudest I could ever tolerate for up to a maybe a minute or so. My normal listening level is more like the 10 o'clock for the LCD-4 and 11 or 12 o'clock for for he6. These are my most difficult to drive headphones.
> 
> I'm using the Dac out from my Burson CV2+ headphone amp. Tomorrow I will have the new Oppo Sonica Dac.
> I will test it with both fixed level and variable level out and post here to let you know if volume levels as I stated change.


 
  
 Thanks for your continuous input, I'm happy with any tidbits!
 The purchase just seems to get closer and closer.


----------



## drwlf

grizzlybeast said:


> HE-9 vs Milo
> 
> thats the thought right now....


 
  
 You should get both and do a comparison


----------



## drwlf

mwhals said:


> Three year warranty with the Milo and a USA company instead of foreign. This is advantageous if warranty work is needed due to not having to ship it overseas.


 
  
 Living in Europe has its disadvantages, stuck with VAT and customs fees, every time.
 Playing it "safer" might support a bias for a US manufactured products in general, which is why any QC/reliability issues are even more important, for me at least.


----------



## bugstone

The Milo impressed me greatly when I heard it at Can Jam NYC 2017.  It sounded so good and so right, just beautiful.  Bass, mids and highs where in perfect balance.  It has a nice musical tone.  Full bodied, not thin sounding.  I like it better than tube amps.  If you are on the fence about getting the Milo, just get it.  It is that good!
  
 Bugs


----------



## ufospls2

bugstone said:


> The Milo impressed me greatly when I heard it at Can Jam NYC 2017.  It sounded so good and so right, just beautiful.  Bass, mids and highs where in perfect balance.  It has a nice musical tone.  Full bodied, not thin sounding.  I like it better than tube amps.  If you are on the fence about getting the Milo, just get it.  It is that good!
> 
> Bugs


 
 Gotta pop in and say I agree with everything you said here. The Milo is awesome!


----------



## pedalhead

I don't know about the Milo, but a headphone like the Kennerton Vali (quite sensitive) is well into the audible noise floor of the Enigma. Worth checking with Jeff how the Milo plays with sensitive headphones.


----------



## grizzlybeast

pedalhead said:


> I don't know about the Milo, but a headphone like the Kennerton Vali (quite sensitive) is well into the audible noise floor of the Enigma. Worth checking with Jeff how the Milo plays with sensitive headphones.




That is my main deterent.


----------



## johnzz4

hifi59 said:


> It is grainless
> Music is layered
> It's is refined sounding
> It is blackity black
> ...


I have the LCD4 as well, and I find the extended treble a bit sharp. I'm running the following chain fully balanced:

Auralic Aries > Yggdrasil > Master 11 (just the amp portion) > LCD4

You seem to have experience with both the Master 9 (which should essentially be the same as the M11 amp section) and the Milo. In your experience, does the Milo smooth out the extended treble in comparison with the M9? I already have a decent AES cable and XLR interconnects but upgrading both when some higher end wireworld cables arrive to see how that impacts it.

Thoughts?


----------



## Hifi59

johnzz4 said:


> I have the LCD4 as well, and I find the extended treble a bit sharp. I'm running the following chain fully balanced:
> 
> Auralic Aries > Yggdrasil > Master 11 (just the amp portion) > LCD4
> 
> ...




The Milo may seem like it's smoothing out the highs, but it's really just a total lack of grunge and grain.
The leading edge attacks seem very mildly rounded off in a good way, while still offering plenty of attack. 

Since I haven't heard the M9 and Milo side by side, I am relying on audio memory. Whenever I heard the M9
at a meet, my impression was always smoooth,authoritive in the bass department, clean and effortless.With the Milo, my immediate impression was tubes,attack,clean and effortless, body and bass. I only suspect that the Milo is more to my liking but cannot swear to it until I get them side by side. I can also state that my Burson CV2+ had a touch more air on top than the M9 but not so vs. the Milo.

You can't go wrong with wireworld cables.


----------



## Hifi59

pedalhead said:


> I don't know about the Milo, but a headphone like the Kennerton Vali (quite sensitive) is well into the audible noise floor of the Enigma. Worth checking with Jeff how the Milo plays with sensitive headphones.




I can crank the volume to max on my Milo (with source music paused ) and with my LCD-XC connected and not hear any hiss at all. Not sure if the Vali is more sensitive than the XC though. This is using the se inputs of the amp too. (Didn't order the xlr input option)


----------



## drwlf

hifi59 said:


> I can crank the volume to max on my Milo (with source music paused ) and with my LCD-XC connected and not hear any hiss at all. Not sure if the Vali is more sensitive than the XC though. This is using the se inputs of the amp too. (Didn't order the xlr input option)


 
  
 You're killing me.


----------



## Astral Abyss

I can hear a good amount of hiss on my Milo with the LCD-XC, fed by a DAC-19 via RCA. In fact, I don't really care for the combo. Now, with my HE-6, it's godly. In comparison, when using the C-2 in place of the Milo, it's completely silent with the LCD-XC.


----------



## ProfFalkin

astral abyss said:


> I can hear a good amount of hiss on my Milo with the LCD-XC, fed by a DAC-19 via RCA. In fact, I don't really care for the combo. Now, with my HE-6, it's godly. In comparison, when using the C-2 in place of the Milo, it's completely silent with the LCD-XC.




How is yours configured? Khozmo? Attenuation?


----------



## Astral Abyss

proffalkin said:


> How is yours configured? Khozmo? Attenuation?



Khozmo + Vishay z-foil and 7.5db attention.


----------



## ProfFalkin

astral abyss said:


> Khozmo + Vishay z-foil and 7.5db attention.



So the only difference between yours and Hifi59's is the 7.5 vs 12 dB attenuation. I'm just trying to correlate why one person has a hiss and another doesn't.

Anyone else notice hiss? Could be a one-off kind of thing or systemic to attenuation methods.


----------



## Hifi59

proffalkin said:


> So the only difference between yours and Hifi59's is the 7.5 vs 12 dB attenuation. I'm just trying to correlate why one person has a hiss and another doesn't.
> 
> Anyone else notice hiss? Could be a one-off kind of thing or systemic to attenuation methods.




I will amend my statement. I can hear mild hissing if I have my iPad volume at max (usually at 80%) and 
Dac volume fixed (max output) . Under these conditions, I can hear mild hissing with the volume at max on the Milo. It's very low though. No hiss at all at 2 o'clock position.


----------



## drwlf

hifi59 said:


> I will amend my statement. I can hear mild hissing if I have my iPad volume at max (usually at 80%) and
> Dac volume fixed (max output) . Under these conditions, I can hear mild hissing with the volume at max on the Milo. It's very low though. No hiss at all at 2 o'clock position.


 
  
 Hmm, good to know. A 2 o'clock position would be more than deafening I imagine nonetheless with the XC.
 How would you "rate" the combo, as @Astral Abyss doesn't really care for it?


----------



## nickosiris

Not normally one given to hyperbole or indeed florid verbiage, when "The Kitchen System" recently evolved into:
  
 AK 380 > Audioquest Big Sur > Wells Audio Milo > Silver Poison > LCD4
  
 I could only really say one thing: "Wow".
  
 That is all.


----------



## Hifi59

drwlf said:


> Hmm, good to know. A 2 o'clock position would be more than deafening I imagine nonetheless with the XC.
> How would you "rate" the combo, as @Astral Abyss
> doesn't really care for it?




I honestly haven't heard anything sound less than stellar on the Milo. Having said that, some headphones improved more than others (Hifiman) but every headphone that I've thrown at it all have some level of improvement over anything else that I've heard. The XC simply sound great on it. I use the Dac out (Ess9018) from my Burson and now use the Oppo Sonica Dac (Ess 9038). 

I will say that my Burson CV2+ has a more upfront sound (3rd row vs 6th row) . This can lend some extra energy to 
some songs that's appealing, but the Milo takes it back a notch but adds a more 3D experience to the sound. The Milo also has excellent midbass. This is what I immediately noticed when I first used my Hifiman HE-1K on it.


----------



## drwlf

hifi59 said:


> I honestly haven't heard anything sound less than stellar on the Milo. Having said that, some headphones improved more than others (Hifiman) but every headphone that I've thrown at it all have some level of improvement over anything else that I've heard. The XC simply sound great on it. I use the Dac out (Ess9018) from my Burson and now use the Oppo Sonica Dac (Ess 9038).
> 
> I will say that my Burson CV2+ has a more upfront sound (3rd row vs 6th row) . This can lend some extra energy to
> some songs that's appealing, but the Milo takes it back a notch but adds a more 3D experience to the sound. The Milo also has excellent midbass. This is what I immediately noticed when I first used my Hifiman HE-1K on it.


 
  
 Good to know.
 Anybody have direct comparisons with Milo vs. the Pro iCan/V281-V280/Phonitor e/x, (excluding any HE-6 impressions)? They're pretty much in the same price bracket within EU, or a quarter cheaper after customs fees+VAT.


----------



## omniweltall

Hhmm....in the CV2+, is it the Dac or the Amp that contributes more to the energetic Burson house sound? I am wondering if the sound coming out from your Milo inherits some of the Burson sound (since you're using the Burson Dac Out).


----------



## mwhals

I was told my Milo ships on Monday.


----------



## Hifi59

omniweltall said:


> Hhmm....in the CV2+, is it the Dac or the Amp that contributes more to the energetic Burson house sound? I am wondering if the sound coming out from your Milo inherits some of the Burson sound (since you're using the Burson Dac Out).




The energy from Burson is definitely from th amp! I previously owned the Burson Soloist amp without Dac and it had the classic Burson somewhat forward, energetic sound. The CV2+ just refined that sound a bit and pulled back the energy just a tad and it also has even less grain. Having used the Dac in the CV2+, I now use the Oppo Sonic Dac that was just released. There is very little difference between the 2 dacs. Maybe a bit less glare and a touch more depth and width to soundstage but nothing major.


----------



## omniweltall

Thanks for clearing that up, Mike. It is better this way, I think. So that we have more flexibility in using the Burson as dac/amp or dac only. There are times that we might want a more mellow sound. This way, CV2+ owners do not need to buy another dac.


----------



## mwhals

mwhals said:


> I was told my Milo ships on Monday.




My Milo has officially shipped.


----------



## ufospls2

mwhals said:


> My Milo has officially shipped.


 
 Congrats, the infuriating wait has begun! Hope you love it when it arrives.


----------



## grizzlybeast

I have the HE-9 here but I have a strong feeling that I will like the Milo more. A friend is going to loan me his and I will compare it to the Milo. The loser leaves. 
  
 For reference, the HE-9 has super tight bass, is very clean, open, decent tonality that is very even handed and neutral, not aggressive and kind of laid back but that's good because the treble is not bright. The blackground is inky black. BUT it lacks tonal density to my ears and while it does have good dynamics I prefer a bit more engagement than what is here. I liked the Phonitor X tonality more and though this amp is a little better technically the X had more realism. It's downfall was that the transients weren't snappy and the bass could have been tighter. The Mogwai for example is not as neutral as the 9 but its very snappy and controlled with crisp snares and snappy drum work all while being more engaging except for the bass which is where the 9 is still pretty impressive. I expect the Milo to not have the tonality of the X either but be more gripping and engaging than all of the above which is for me. If the Enigma is worth the price jump I still wouldn't do it because I am saving funds for the Eddie Current Aficianado. Honestly if the Milo doesn't do it for me tonally then I will just transition into tube amps. I have tried enough solid state and amps like the Mogwai make that trajectory more likely.


----------



## Hansotek

grizzlybeast said:


> I have the HE-9 here but I have a strong feeling that I will like the Milo more. A friend is going to loan me his and I will compare it to the Milo. The loser leaves.
> 
> For reference, the HE-9 has super tight bass, is very clean, open, decent tonality that is very even handed and neutral, not aggressive and kind of laid back but that's good because the treble is not bright. The blackground is inky black. BUT it lacks tonal density to my ears and while it does have good dynamics I prefer a bit more engagement than what is here. I liked the Phonitor X tonality more and though this amp is a little better technically the X had more realism. It's downfall was that the transients weren't snappy and the bass could have been tighter. The Mogwai for example is not as neutral as the 9 but its very snappy and controlled with crisp snares and snappy drum work all while being more engaging except for the bass which is where the 9 is still pretty impressive. I expect the Milo to not have the tonality of the X either but be more gripping and engaging than all of the above which is for me. If the Enigma is worth the price jump I still wouldn't do it because I am saving funds for the Eddie Current Aficianado. Honestly if the Milo doesn't do it for me tonally then I will just transition into tube amps. I have tried enough solid state and amps like the Mogwai make that trajectory more likely.




Yeah, the Phonitor E has nice tone, but sounds a bit lazy compared to the Milo. I think your instincts are correct on most of the points above, having owned the Audio-GD Master-9, the Milo and now testing the Phonitor E. I've been making some extra comparison notes for you between the two amps, but I'm glad you're going to get a hands-on demo, because I think that is going to be a million times more informative than anything I have to say.


----------



## cskippy

@grizzlybeast Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## mwhals

Ugh! My latest UPS update:

"We've incorrectly sorted the package at our facility. This may cause at least one business day delay."


----------



## ProfFalkin

mwhals said:


> Ugh! My latest UPS update:
> 
> "We've incorrectly sorted the package at our facility. This may cause at least one business day delay."




Slay them!! :mad::mad::mad:


----------



## mwhals

proffalkin said:


> Slay them!! :mad::mad::mad:





I just received a text that it will arrive tomorrow, which saves me a trip to the UPS store since my ZMF headphones are supposed to arrive tomorrow too.


----------



## heliosphann

mwhals said:


> Ugh! My latest UPS update:
> 
> "We've incorrectly sorted the package at our facility. This may cause at least one business day delay."


 
 Sounds like a classic Brown move to me!


----------



## mwhals

heliosphann said:


> Sounds like a classic Brown move to me!




As they say, "What has Brown done for you lately?"


----------



## ProfFalkin

mwhals said:


> As they say, "What has Brown done for you lately?"



I'll take "Matress Stain" for $1000, Alex.


----------



## mwhals

The Milo is sounding wonderful! I am hearing things in my music that I have not noticed before. Now as it burns in for 200 hours, it will be burning in both my Atticus and Eikon at the same time as well as completing the burn in for my Ori (I just did not want to play the Ori through a DAP for 100 hours straight).


----------



## Hansotek

mwhals said:


> The Milo is sounding wonderful! I am hearing things in my music that I have not noticed before. Now as it burns in for 200 hours, it will be burning in both my Atticus and Eikon at the same time as well as completing the burn in for my Ori (I just did not want to play the Ori through a DAP for 100 hours straight).




Glad to hear it!!


----------



## ProfFalkin

Oh, I can't wait until mine ships.


----------



## johnzz4

Just ordered to replace the Master 11 (basically the Master 9).  I'm going to move the Master 11 to another room, but I'm looking forward to hearing the differences first hand between the Milo and the M11.
  
 When I spoke with Jeff today, he said that he needs to update the site since he started having the Khozmo attenuators custom built with a much more aggressive taper.  So, I just ordered the Milo with the Khozmo and the Vishay 'Naked' Z-Foil resistors and no additional attenuation.
  
 I have the LCD-4 and the LCD-X and will post my impressions asap.


----------



## johnzz4

Can the output power of the Milo be calculated at 200 ohms, or does it need to be measured?


----------



## Viper2005

I am going to order a Milo was well.  Since I live in Canada, Jeff is still figuring out how to get one to me.
 He also did mention the new Khozmo's have removed the need for attenuators.


----------



## mwhals

I wonder if my newly received Milo has that new Khozmo?


----------



## Hansotek

johnzz4 said:


> Can the output power of the Milo be calculated at 200 ohms, or does it need to be measured?


 
  
 It should be about 2.88W at full output, I believe.


----------



## gr8soundz

viper2005 said:


> I am going to order a Milo was well.  Since I live in Canada, Jeff is still figuring out how to get one to me.
> He also did mention the new Khozmo's have removed the need for attenuators.


 
  
 So, no more need to pay extra for attenuation when adding the Khozmo?


----------



## Viper2005

gr8soundz said:


> So, no more need to pay extra for attenuation when adding the Khozmo?


 

 Thats right, save the $100     and also provides a cleaner signal path too.


----------



## gr8soundz

viper2005 said:


> Thats right, save the $100     and also provides a cleaner signal path too.


 
  
 That's good news. Glad to see continuous improvement. Now if we could just get attenuation standard (with or without the Khozmo). A gain switch would be even better.
  
 Just wishful thinking since I had to put my plans to order one on hold. Might have to move soon so no new, big desktop hardware for now (plus I may finally be getting my new dac next week which is much cheaper and much smaller than the Milo).
  
 Just curious, do you know if the Khozmo's 'built-in' attenuation is -7.5 or -12dB or something else?


----------



## Hansotek

gr8soundz said:


> That's good news. Glad to see continuous improvement. Now if we could just get attenuation standard (with or without the Khozmo). A gain switch would be even better.
> 
> Just wishful thinking since I had to put my plans to order one on hold. Might have to move soon so no new, big desktop hardware for now (plus I may finally be getting my new dac next week which is much cheaper and much smaller than the Milo).
> 
> Just curious, do you know if the Khozmo's 'built-in' attenuation is -7.5 or -12dB or something else?




It just tapers the volume more aggressively. Full output should still be the same. Volume at 9:00 or 10:00 will be much lower. Make sense?


----------



## gr8soundz

hansotek said:


> It just tapers the volume more aggressively. Full output should still be the same. Volume at 9:00 or 10:00 will be much lower. Make sense?


 
  
 Got it. Thanks.


----------



## drwlf

johnzz4 said:


> Just ordered to replace the Master 11 (basically the Master 9).  I'm going to move the Master 11 to another room, but I'm looking forward to hearing the differences first hand between the Milo and the M11.
> 
> When I spoke with Jeff today, he said that he needs to update the site since he started having the Khozmo attenuators custom built with a much more aggressive taper.  So, I just ordered the Milo with the Khozmo and the Vishay 'Naked' Z-Foil resistors and no additional attenuation.
> 
> I have the LCD-4 and the LCD-X and will post my impressions asap.


 

 Interested in the noise floor with LCD-X with this new iteration!


----------



## mwhals

When I ordered my Milo, Jeff recommended the -7.5 attenuation with the Khozmo as it had an aggressive taper. Without it, he suggested -12 attenuation. 

With the -7.5 attenuation and Khozmo, I still do not get to 11:00 with the more efficient ZMF Eikon or Atticus. With the Ori, I can go to 12:00 before I think hearing is in danger if going louder. I like 11:00 with the Ori. There is still a lot of volume available for even harder to drive headphones. With the Khozmo, I find the volume control to work very well. I highly recommend the Khozmo upgrade.


----------



## heliosphann

So I couldn't let @mwhals one up me...


----------



## Jozurr

heliosphann said:


> So I couldn't let @mwhals one up me...


 
  
 I don't think the Milo could look any uglier even if it tried. I hope the sound pleases you enough


----------



## heliosphann

jozurr said:


> I don't think the Milo could look any uglier even if it tried. I hope the sound pleases you enough


 
 Different strokes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I quite love it's design. Can't believe how compact and light it is. And it absolutely kills with the HE-1000. Never heard it sound so good. Can't wait to try the HE-6 on it (waiting on a converter cable).


----------



## mwhals

heliosphann said:


> So I couldn't let @mwhals
> one up me...




I probably have more PC horsepower though. 

Nice setup though. With two monitors and cats, I could never have a setup like that.


----------



## ProfFalkin

heliosphann said:


> So I couldn't let @mwhals
> one up me...



S-19?


----------



## Astral Abyss

jozurr said:


> I don't think the Milo could look any uglier even if it tried. I hope the sound pleases you enough




I thought so at first too, seeing it in pictures, but when you see it in person, it's amazing.


----------



## Astral Abyss

proffalkin said:


> S-19?




Yep, he and I have the same setup. The S19 and Milo compliment each other really well.


----------



## heliosphann

astral abyss said:


> Yep, he and I have the same setup. The S19 and Milo compliment each other really well.


 
  
 Still working out some kinks with the S19. I'll PM you about it.


mwhals said:


> I probably have more PC horsepower though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You can't see to the right of my secondary monitor, but I've got a 4K Acer 32" Predator monitor and a pretty nice PC with a GTX 1080 and Oculus Rift hooked up.


----------



## ProfFalkin

heliosphann said:


> Still working out some kinks with the S19. I'll PM you about it.
> You can't see to the right of my secondary monitor, but I've got a 4K Acer 32" Predator monitor and a pretty nice PC with a GTX 1080 and Oculus Rift hooked up.




No 1080 SLI? Weak sauce.


----------



## Astral Abyss

proffalkin said:


> No 1080 SLI? Weak sauce.




Titan X Pascal here. :O


----------



## heliosphann

proffalkin said:


> No 1080 SLI? Weak sauce.


 
 I know. Playing games like DOOM in 4k at 60fps sucks!!!


----------



## heliosphann

astral abyss said:


> Titan X Pascal here. :O


----------



## Astral Abyss

heliosphann said:


> :rolleyes:



Hehe, sorry, I nerded out.


----------



## heliosphann

astral abyss said:


> Hehe, sorry, I nerded out.


 
 Yea, I would too if I had one!


----------



## Hifi59

Which volume knob guys? Neither of them are the original.


----------



## heliosphann

hifi59 said:


> Which volume knob guys? Neither of them are the original.


 
 This one.


----------



## mwhals

heliosphann said:


> You can't see to the right of my secondary monitor, but I've got a 4K Acer 32" Predator monitor and a pretty nice PC with a GTX 1080 and Oculus Rift hooked up.




Two high Gamut 24" monitors, 6 core processor with 64 GB of RAM, Solid state drive with hard disc for storage.  I built it as a heavy duty Photoshop and video computer. Mine wasn't built for gaming, so my video card is setup for video rendering and high gamut imaaging.


----------



## ProfFalkin

hifi59 said:


> Which volume knob guys? Neither of them are the original.




That one.


----------



## mwhals

This is the one I have.


----------



## gr8soundz

hifi59 said:


> Which volume knob guys? Neither of them are the original.


 
  
 The all black knob looks more stealthy.


----------



## Hifi59

mwhals said:


> This is the one I have.




You have a Bakelite volume knob on yours?


----------



## mwhals

hifi59 said:


> You have a Bakelite volume knob on yours?




No. Upon further looking, that picture looks like the knob is black on the sides. Mine is the one below:


----------



## Hansotek

Wow, if you have an old K701 somewhere, bust it out and give it a listen on the Milo! It's definitely the most dynamic I've heard the AKGs sound, SUPER detailed, vocals actually sound good, and there is a very nice amount of warmth to the sound... basically, it fixes everything people didn't like about the K701 but the headband. Pro tip: let the amp warm up for half an hour first, there was a pretty noticeable change on the 701.

I just love what Milo does with mid-fi headphones. It transforms the HD600, HE400 and now the AKGs. I was thinking about selling the K701, but now I think I'm going to hang onto it!


----------



## mwhals

The Milo is so soundless when no music is playing through it. Music is so clear and beautiful coming out of the Milo even with two headphones plugged in simultaneously. It is great for comparing headphones.


----------



## johnzz4

This is going to be a long week waiting for the Milo. I really hope I prefer it over the Master 9.

Fun fact... Jeff said actual build time is 4 hours.

Any impressions on how the sound changed while breaking in and how significant it was?


----------



## JeffA

Two questions about the Milo. First, what is the current wait time for the amp? Second, has anyone tried IEMs with the amp?


----------



## mwhals

jeffa said:


> Two questions about the Milo. First, what is the current wait time for the amp? Second, has anyone tried IEMs with the amp?




Wait time is about 2 to 2.5 weeks, based on how long it took to get mine. They were starting a new run of 10 when I ordered and I was included in that run of 10, so it may vary. I have not tried my JH Angie with this amp and have no intention of doing so.


----------



## SDBiotek

jeffa said:


> Two questions about the Milo. First, what is the current wait time for the amp? Second, has anyone tried IEMs with the amp?



Given the huge power output of the amp, I really don't think it would be practical to use it for iems.


----------



## Hansotek

jeffa said:


> Two questions about the Milo. First, what is the current wait time for the amp? Second, has anyone tried IEMs with the amp?


 
  
 One should most definitely never try to use IEMs on the Milo.
  
 I would imagine the audition would go something like this:


----------



## ProfFalkin

hansotek said:


> One should most definitely never try to use IEMs on the Milo.
> 
> I would imagine the audition would go something like this:




Head explosions only if using dynamic driver IEMs. 

Using BA, your brain-housing group may very well time travel as the armatures approach the speed of light and infinite mass.


----------



## SDBiotek

I was trying to be nice to JeffA, but yeah, that would be the sudden end to whatever iem was connected.


----------



## JeffA

Thank you all for your feedback regarding the possibility of using the Milo with IEMs. I am looking for a TOTL desktop amp to use with IEMs because my primary at-home listening will be with IEMs. I saw a picture of a Milo from a show report with one input labeled "IEM" and thought it might be a candidate. Apparently not. The search continues.


----------



## Hansotek

jeffa said:


> Thank you all for your feedback regarding the possibility of using the Milo with IEMs. I am looking for a TOTL desktop amp to use with IEMs because my primary at-home listening will be with IEMs. I saw a picture of a Milo from a show report with one input labeled "IEM" and thought it might be a candidate. Apparently not. The search continues.




Hmmm... I think you might have been looking at a different amp. I'd be happy to help if you have a pic!


----------



## JeffA

hansotek said:


> Hmmm... I think you might have been looking at a different amp. I'd be happy to help if you have a pic!


 
 My apologies. I got the Milo mixed up with a picture I saw of ModWright's Tryst headphone amplifier. But I'm still glad I asked the question. The Milo sounds like an impressive amp and now I can check it off the list of candidates.


----------



## Hansotek

jeffa said:


> My apologies. I got the Milo mixed up with a picture I saw of ModWright's Tryst headphone amplifier. But I'm still glad I asked the question. The Milo sounds like an impressive amp and now I can check it off the list of candidates.




The Milo is incredible. If you have hard-to-drive planars, it is absolutely one of the best.

I haven't heard the Tryst, but my friend longbowbbs reviewed it here: http://headphone.guru/the-modwright-tryst-headphone-amplifier-a-class-a-act/. Good luck with your search!


----------



## omniweltall

Was wondering if anyone here ever tried both the Milo and Bakoon HDA5210mk3.


----------



## Benny-x

grizzlybeast said:


> Eddie Current Aficianado




What's that and where're the links and pictures?

Also surprised to hear you not feeling the HE-9. You seemed to be a decent fan of the Master-9, but the HE-9 seems to be right in and back out your door.


----------



## Aleatorius

benny-x said:


> What's that and where're the links and pictures?




It's an unreleased tube amp made by Eddie Current formerly known as the Studio Jr.


----------



## Benny-x

aleatorius said:


> It's an unreleased tube amp made by Eddie Current formerly known as the Studio Jr.


 
 Ah, I'm a little confused... I went to the link you showed and there is an amp called the Studio Jr. and a pre-order form for it, but there's nothing called the Aficianado. I went in all the tabs and whatever I could, but I couldn't find it. Is there a different link or maybe like a Facebook link about it? Of course the first 4 sentences are a joke and it all makes sense now. I wish it were renamed on the website site though, as that's the first place I went on my own to check before I posted... Anyway, that's cool, but I wonder what the real price differential will be between them and if it'll be worth it?


----------



## grizzlybeast

benny-x said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > Eddie Current Aficianado
> ...


 
 never heard the Master 9 and now I do not want to.


----------



## Hifi59

grizzlybeast said:


> never heard the Master 9 and now I do not want to.




I find it interesting that on the 3 or 4 occasions that I've listened to the Master 9, I always preferred the sound coming from the SE output rather than the balanced output.(volume not withstanding). I think Jeff of Wells Audio was on to something when he stated that balanced circuits sound too electronic to his ear(twice the components to pass through?) thus he only offers se headphone amps. That's how I felt too.


----------



## ProfFalkin

It has arrived!



Gallery here.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Huh... it sounds really good too. 

It's like my Jotunheim, only not. At all.


----------



## Hansotek

proffalkin said:


> Huh... it sounds really good too.
> 
> It's like my Jotunheim, only not. At all.




Welcome to the club!


----------



## Benny-x

proffalkin said:


> It's like my Jotunheim, only not. At all.


 
 Haha. 
  
 What's your stance on the Jotunheim all the same? I'm looking for a good, balanced amp for my office rig and I'm wondering about the ~$1000 Auralic Taurus MkII, but have just been seeing some good reviews on the Jotunheim as well. Maybe they're both good, where the Jotunheim is good for the the price and the Taurus MkII is just plain good? And beyond all them is now your Milo?


----------



## Benny-x

grizzlybeast said:


> never heard the Master 9 and now I do not want to.


 
 My mistake, I thought I'd seen you in there talking about it. Well, all the same, the HE-9 left pretty soon and that was surprising to read.
  
 Good luck with your tubed Milo


----------



## ProfFalkin

benny-x said:


> Haha.
> 
> What's your stance on the Jotunheim all the same? I'm looking for a good, balanced amp for my office rig and I'm wondering about the ~$1000 Auralic Taurus MkII, but have just been seeing some good reviews on the Jotunheim as well. Maybe they're both good, where the Jotunheim is good for the the price and the Taurus MkII is just plain good? And beyond all them is now your Milo?




If you run headphones balanced, I can't think of another amp I'd rather have at the price point than the Jot. 

I haven't heard the Taurus but was considering it vs the Milo. Can't say how they would compare, but the look of the Taurus I didn't care for. The volume knob... I'd want to paint a nipple on it for kicks. (I'm juvenile like that.)

To early to judge the Milo, but it's sounding really damn good vs the Jot. Surprisingly a little less bass energy vs the Jot, but time will tell as it and I burn in.


----------



## Benny-x

proffalkin said:


> If you run headphones balanced, I can't think of another amp I'd rather have at the price point than the Jot.
> 
> I haven't heard the Taurus but was considering it vs the Milo. Can't say how they would compare, but the look of the Taurus I didn't care for. The volume knob... I'd want to paint a nipple on it for kicks. (I'm juvenile like that.)
> 
> To early to judge the Milo, but it's sounding really damn good vs the Jot. Surprisingly a little less bass energy vs the Jot, but time will tell as it and I burn in.


 
 Naw, I know exactly what you mean about the nipple... I've used the Taurus MkII before and it's a great amp. Well put together, the volume knob has good feedback when you turn it, etc.
  
 BUT, I do often think about swapping out the knob in place of a more normal looking one.
  
 And thanks for the feedback so far on the amps, interesting to hear and especially about the bass region as the DAC I'll be connecting this to isn't a bass monster (LH Labs Pulse X Infinity)


----------



## gr8soundz

proffalkin said:


> *If you run headphones balanced, I can't think of another amp I'd rather have at the price point than the Jot.*
> 
> I haven't heard the Taurus but was considering it vs the Milo. Can't say how they would compare, but the look of the Taurus I didn't care for. The volume knob... I'd want to paint a nipple on it for kicks. (I'm juvenile like that.)
> 
> To early to judge the Milo, but it's sounding really damn good vs the Jot. Surprisingly a little less bass energy vs the Jot, but time will tell as it and I burn in.


 
  
 I know its still early for comparisons but would you suggest that the Milo is better than the Jot for SE use (instead of balanced)?


----------



## ProfFalkin

gr8soundz said:


> I know its still early for comparisons but would you suggest that the Milo is better than the Jot for SE use (instead of balanced)?


 

Yes. Especially for hard to drive HPs. There is a clarity and detail improvement I can't deny with the Milo. 

At 3X the cost, the Milo better be an improvement! Haha


----------



## ufospls2

benny-x said:


> Haha.
> 
> What's your stance on the Jotunheim all the same? I'm looking for a good, balanced amp for my office rig and I'm wondering about the ~$1000 Auralic Taurus MkII, but have just been seeing some good reviews on the Jotunheim as well. Maybe they're both good, where the Jotunheim is good for the the price and the Taurus MkII is just plain good? And beyond all them is now your Milo?


 
 I owned the Taurus and moved on to the Milo. The Milo was a better amp, especially for hard to drive headphones. More clarity, soundstage, impact.


----------



## johnzz4

I feel like a kid at Christmas waiting for the brown truck to arrive today. Someone just mentioned the Milo is a little bass light.. do others get that sense as well?


----------



## ufospls2

johnzz4 said:


> I feel like a kid at Christmas waiting for the brown truck to arrive today. Someone just mentioned the Milo is a little bass light.. do others get that sense as well?


 
 It had a TINY bit less bass than my Taurus, but the bass was better. If that makes sense.


----------



## ProfFalkin

johnzz4 said:


> I feel like a kid at Christmas waiting for the brown truck to arrive today. Someone just mentioned the Milo is a little bass light.. do others get that sense as well?



Like ufospls2, I find initial impressions to indicate it has just a hair less bass then the Jot, but it's better bass. 

Yeah, it doesn't make sense worded that way, but that is nonetheless accurate.


----------



## Astral Abyss

proffalkin said:


> Like ufospls2, I find initial impressions to indicate it has just a hair less bass then the Jot, but it's better bass.
> 
> Yeah, it doesn't make sense worded that way, but that is nonetheless accurate.




Perhaps it's less harmonic distortion making it seem like less bass? I don't know. Maybe similar to the HD800 vs HD800S.


----------



## ProfFalkin

astral abyss said:


> Perhaps it's less harmonic distortion making it seem like less bass? I don't know. Maybe similar to the HD800 vs HD800S.



My takeaway was "it's better bass". Hehehe

With the Eikon you aren't lacking bass anyway. Or, on the flip side of that, perhaps because the Eikon's bass is so clean yet pronounced is why I notice the difference. I really doubt if I would notice it on the HD800 or 600, as they extend well but don't have the quantity to highlight the difference.


----------



## johnzz4

It's still cold from being on the UPS truck and it already sounds much cleaner than the M9. Bass just seems tight and accurate. Very resolving amp compared to the M9. I want to hear it warm with some hours on it. Very pleased already.


----------



## Hifi59

johnzz4 said:


> I feel like a kid at Christmas waiting for the brown truck to arrive today. Someone just mentioned the Milo is a little bass light.. do others get that sense as well?




Compared to my Burson CV2+, my initial thoughts were that the Burson has a touch more deep bass but the Milo has more midbass. The Milo transformed my Hifiman HE-1k into a new experience in that department. Over the months though with continued comparisons, I believe ithe Milos bass is as deep as anything out there that I've heard. It's just so smooth and grain free that I suppose one could feel it's slightly less bass. Same with the highs. They're all there 100% , but one could concluded that highs are somewhat rolled off. They are not. They're just uber grain free. Also perception of bass differences could be that the Milo is a bit more laid back than my Burson(yet still very engaging...a tough act) .
If Burson is like sitting in the 3rd row of a concert, the Milo would be like listening from the 6th row.


----------



## Hifi59

johnzz4 said:


> It's still cold from being on the UPS truck and it already sounds much cleaner than the M9. Bass just seems tight and accurate. Very resolving amp compared to the M9. I want to hear it warm with some hours on it. Very pleased already.




More magic occurs with it , in my experience, at around the 200 hour mark of break in! Enjoy.


----------



## ProfFalkin

hifi59 said:


> More magic occurs with it , in my experience, at around the 200 hour mark of break in! Enjoy.



I'm accelerating the burn in process. I have mine powered on, playing at listening volume, connected to some cheap headphones, in the oven at 250 degrees.

That should cut the time down from 200 to about 20.


----------



## gr8soundz

proffalkin said:


> I'm accelerating the burn in process. I have mine powered on, playing at listening volume, connected to some cheap headphones, in the oven at 250 degrees.
> 
> That should cut the time down from 200 to about 20.


 
  
 Don't think its a good idea cooking your new, almost $2000 amp in the oven........unless you set the oven to broil!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If you dislike your Milo that much and are trying to kill it, I'll gladly take it off your hands.


----------



## ProfFalkin

gr8soundz said:


> Don't think its a good idea cooking your new, almost $2000 amp in the oven........unless you set the oven to broil!  :eek:
> 
> If you dislike your Milo that much and are trying to kill it, I'll gladly take it off your hands.



What are you taking about? Nothing could possibly go wrong with my plan. 

Besides, if it doesn't work out, then I'll just...

OH! Kitchen timer just went off! Time to flip the amp! Don't want to burn in one side more than another...

BRB

(Yeah, I'm just kidding.)


----------



## mwhals

I burned in the Ori for 100 hours with the Milo and now am burning in the Atticus and Eikon headphones for 150 hours, so my Milo will have 250 hours of burn in on it when I am done on Sunday.


----------



## The Piper

The Milo is not tubed.


----------



## Benny-x

ufospls2 said:


> I owned the Taurus and moved on to the Milo. The Milo was a better amp, especially for hard to drive headphones. More clarity, soundstage, impact.


 
 NO! I needed to hear the Taurus was better and you regretted selling it~ 
  
 Haha, alright, so that's where things sit. That's good to know. I'll have to see if any Milos start showing up used and what they go for.


----------



## johnzz4

proffalkin said:


> I'm accelerating the burn in process. I have mine powered on, playing at listening volume, connected to some cheap headphones, in the oven at 250 degrees.
> 
> That should cut the time down from 200 to about 20.


I've got mine at 300 deg... Amateur


----------



## Hifi59

My dual rubber band mod! With the much improved grip, I can now raise and lower volume with one finger.


----------



## omniweltall

Nice


----------



## ProfFalkin

hifi59 said:


> My dual rubber band mod! With the much improved grip, I can now raise and lower volume with one finger.



You get the Khozmo?


----------



## Hifi59

proffalkin said:


> You get the Khozmo?




Yes, I originally had the Tocos but later upgraded to Khozmo.


----------



## Hifi59

Say hello to my li'l friends! All very well driven by the Milo.
From left to right back. Zmf Eikons , Hifiman HE1-K, Audeze LCD-3f 2016, LCD-XC 2016
Front center Audeze LCD-4. Front right Hifiman HE-6


----------



## ProfFalkin

hifi59 said:


> Say hello to my li'l friends! All very well driven by the Milo.
> From left to right back. Zmf Eikons , Hifiman HE1-K, Audeze LCD-3f 2016, LCD-XC 2016
> Front center Audeze LCD-4. Front right Hifiman HE-6




So... When are you going to buy some REAL headphones?

(Just kidding!)

Nice collection!


----------



## DrWhite

hifi59 said:


> Say hello to my li'l friends! All very well driven by the Milo.
> From left to right back. Zmf Eikons , Hifiman HE1-K, Audeze LCD-3f 2016, LCD-XC 2016
> Front center Audeze LCD-4. Front right Hifiman HE-6




Nice collection 

İ have a he-6 and i wonder if it sounds shrill in the treble with milo? How it sounds with he-6? Can u describe a little 

By the way, anyone got a chance to listen v281 vs he9 vs milo ?


----------



## heliosphann

hifi59 said:


> Say hello to my li'l friends! All very well driven by the Milo.
> From left to right back. Zmf Eikons , Hifiman HE1-K, Audeze LCD-3f 2016, LCD-XC 2016
> Front center Audeze LCD-4. Front right Hifiman HE-6


 
  
  


drwhite said:


> Nice collection
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those poor HE-6's... Get them some good pads!


----------



## Hansotek

drwhite said:


> Nice collection
> 
> İ have a he-6 and i wonder if it sounds shrill in the treble with milo? How it sounds with he-6? Can u describe a little
> 
> By the way, anyone got a chance to listen v281 vs he9 vs milo ?




I've listened to the HE-6 on the Milo, it is killer. Mids and treble are well-controlled, and bass is TIGHT. On a fully-modded pair we're talking electrostatic tight! Microdynamics were just killer too.

I've heard the V281 on many occasions and I used to own the Master 9. IMO, neither one of them are anywhere near the Milo in terms of sound quality. 

I'm guessing the HE-9, while likely better than the Master 9, is not going to be significantly different enough to clear the gap. I didn't think the original Master-9 drove the HE-6 very well. In most cases, I preferred it with my old H/K speaker amp. The M9 did a lot of things right on a technical level, but never did much to connect me with the music on an emotional level. I think at the time, I described to a friend that "it was like a robot learning to be human, but it couldn't quite capture the nuances." 

I might not be the right person to ask about the V281, but I don't like that amp at all. It is dark and dull to my ears, and I've heard several well-respected head-fi'ers (whose ears I trust second only to my own) say pretty much the same thing, more or less. The dynamic edges of the music are blunted in a very unnatural way. IMHO, YMMV. I know a lot of people like that amp.


----------



## DrWhite

hansotek said:


> I've listened to the HE-6 on the Milo, it is killer. Mids and treble are well-controlled, and bass is TIGHT. On a fully-modded pair we're talking electrostatic tight! Microdynamics were just killer too.
> 
> I've heard the V281 on many occasions and I used to own the Master 9. IMO, neither one of them are anywhere near the Milo in terms of sound quality.
> 
> ...




Thanks a lot, for lots of information u gave 
İf milo is better than master9, v281,must be a beast amp 
i think i ll give a shot to milo, any upgrade offering u suggest for using with he6?


----------



## Hifi59

drwhite said:


> Nice collection
> 
> İ have a he-6 and i wonder if it sounds shrill in the treble with milo? How it sounds with he-6? Can u describe a little




Hansotek's response pretty much says it all. I agree with it.


----------



## Hifi59

false


----------



## Hifi59

heliosphann said:


> Those poor HE-6's... Get them some good pads!




As much as I love their sound as is, I'm open to suggestions.


----------



## Hifi59

drwhite said:


> Thanks a lot, for lots of information u gave
> İf milo is better than master9, v281,must be a beast amp
> i think i ll give a shot to milo, any upgrade offering u suggest for using with he6?




Get it with the Khozmo stepped attenuator with the new taper implementation. This way, you don't have to get the additional 7.5 or 12db attenuation.
Without that attenuation, using the standard tocos or Khozmo attenuator, you can't get past the 11 o'clock position without going deaf. So choices are to get either attenuator with the addition of a 7.5 or 12db attenuation circuit OR just get his latest Khozmo attenuator with a less aggressive taper to it so that you can turn the volume up a little higher on the scale.


----------



## heliosphann

hifi59 said:


> As much as I love their sound as is, I'm open to suggestions.


 
 A lot of people use Audeze Vegan pads (including me). I've heard the Ori pads are quite good with the HE-6 and the Eikon pads might be even better if you got any extras. Also some people like the Angled Brainwavz HM5 pads and some of the Dekoni sheepskin pads, but I've not tried those.


----------



## cskippy

Those are all good choices, and some of those I've recommended myself.  I've actually switched back to the stock velour pads with a rubber ring inserted to make the opening slightly smaller.  I used a thick mouse pad and cut a 1/4 inch strip and cut it to length so that it would create a seal when placed inside.  Sometimes I'll use two rings and the foam ring from the pleather pads, which further lessen the etchy treble.  It is the smoothest most integrated sound I've heard out of these headphones.


----------



## heliosphann

Got an adapter for my HE-6 so now I can use it with my Milo.
  





  
 So good...


----------



## Hifi59

heliosphann said:


> Got an adapter for my HE-6 so now I can use it with my Milo.
> 
> 
> 
> So good...




Why do you need an adaptor to use he-6 with Milo? Am I missing something here?


----------



## heliosphann

hifi59 said:


> Why do you need an adaptor to use he-6 with Milo? Am I missing something here?


 
 My HE-6 has hardwired balanced 3-pin L/R cables. So I needed an adapter to go to 4-pin.


----------



## Astral Abyss

heliosphann said:


> My HE-6 has hardwired balanced 3-pin L/R cables. So I needed an adapter to go to 4-pin.


 
  
 Hardwired?  How quaint.


----------



## heliosphann

astral abyss said:


> Hardwired?  How quaint.


 
 They're really nice cables and I'd rather have them hardwired than those horrendus Hifiman connectors.


----------



## Astral Abyss

heliosphann said:


> They're really nice cables and I'd rather have them hardwired than those horrendus Hifiman connectors.


 
  
 Hey do whatever you want, they're your headphones.  I'm just giving you grief.


----------



## Hifi59

My latest slippery volume knob fix. Grip much improved and I think it looks good too.
Found the little clear Goody bands at Walmart. They start out clear but once stretched to fit snugly around volume knob, they turn somewhat opaque.


----------



## mwhals

I have no problems with the Milo volume knob personally.


----------



## Hifi59

mwhals said:


> I have no problems with the Milo volume knob personally.




Then this fix is not for you. I listen in bed at night and when I want to adjust volume, I reach with my left arm using my index finger . It is difficult to adjust the stepped Khozmo volume attenuator this way without a mod like this or even changing the stock knob to a knurled knob. I actually bought a knurled one and it worked great but it was not of the same quality of the original.


----------



## geoffalter11

hansotek said:


> I've listened to the HE-6 on the Milo, it is killer. Mids and treble are well-controlled, and bass is TIGHT. On a fully-modded pair we're talking electrostatic tight! Microdynamics were just killer too.
> 
> I've heard the V281 on many occasions and I used to own the Master 9. IMO, neither one of them are anywhere near the Milo in terms of sound quality.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the feedback.  I was about to pull the trigger on a Master 9 or the NOS 11, but after speaking with a couple people whose ears I trust I am now going to get a Milo.  Your post was icing on the cake.


----------



## geoffalter11

geoffalter11 said:


> Thanks for the feedback.  I was about to pull the trigger on a Master 9 or the NOS 11, but after speaking with a couple people whose ears I trust I am now going to get a Milo.  Your post was icing on the cake.


 
 Pulled the trigger and bought the Milo today.  I am going to use a Musette as the DAC.  Any idea how this pairing sounds?  I am beyond excited for my Milo to arrive in 10-14 days.  Jeff Wells is a very nice person.  He couldn't have been more helpful.


----------



## ProfFalkin

geoffalter11 said:


> Pulled the trigger and bought the Milo today.  I am going to use a Musette as the DAC.  Any idea how this pairing sounds?  I am beyond excited for my Milo to arrive in 10-14 days.  Jeff Wells is a very nice person.  He couldn't have been more helpful.




Calling mwhals...


----------



## Hansotek

geoffalter11 said:


> Pulled the trigger and bought the Milo today.  I am going to use a Musette as the DAC.  Any idea how this pairing sounds?  I am beyond excited for my Milo to arrive in 10-14 days.  Jeff Wells is a very nice person.  He couldn't have been more helpful.




The Metrum Musette is a great match for the Milo. I highly recommend it. I actually used that for the majority of my review of the Milo.


----------



## geoffalter11

hansotek said:


> The Metrum Musette is a great match for the Milo. I highly recommend it. I actually used that for the majority of my review of the Milo.




Thank you for responding. I am excited.


----------



## heliosphann

proffalkin said:


> Calling @mwhals...


 
  
 Knock it off... 
  
 Say it two more times and he'll appear like Beatlejuice.


----------



## geoffalter11

proffalkin said:


> Calling mwhals...




Shall I assume you are making fun of me?


----------



## heliosphann

geoffalter11 said:


> Shall I assume you are making fun of me?


 
 No, "he who shall not be named" actually has a Milo/Musette.


----------



## mwhals

geoffalter11 said:


> Pulled the trigger and bought the Milo today.  I am going to use a Musette as the DAC.  Any idea how this pairing sounds?  I am beyond excited for my Milo to arrive in 10-14 days.  Jeff Wells is a very nice person.  He couldn't have been more helpful.




The Musette seems to pair wonderfully with the Milo in my humble opinion.


----------



## ProfFalkin

geoffalter11 said:


> Shall I assume you are making fun of me?



The internet is so cynical.


----------



## ProfFalkin

heliosphann said:


> Knock it off...
> 
> Say it two more times and he'll appear like Beatlejuice.



mwhals...

He's come for your daughter, Chuck.


----------



## Astral Abyss

As an aside, the Milo sounds wonderful with the Audio-gd DAC-19 and Singularity 19, as well as a ton of other dacs I'm sure.  Singularity 19 falls in the scary-good category.


----------



## Hansotek

astral abyss said:


> As an aside, the Milo sounds wonderful with the Audio-gd DAC-19 and Singularity 19, as well as a ton of other dacs I'm sure.  Singularity 19 falls in the scary-good category.




In what ways does Singularity-19 improve upon the DAC-19? I ask here because I'm curious about the pairing with the Milo specifically. I would also like to know how impact compares between the two... If it's not too much trouble.


----------



## geoffalter11

heliosphann said:


> No, "he who shall not be named" actually has a Milo/Musette.


 
 gotcha...


----------



## geoffalter11

proffalkin said:


> The internet is so cynical.


 
 Yes, it is.  As am I.


----------



## geoffalter11

mwhals said:


> The Musette seems to pair wonderfully with the Milo in my humble opinion.


 
 That is great to hear.  I can't wait.  I have an Audeze Deckard now which has been great, but this will be another level.  My headphones deserve it.


----------



## Hifi59

Been extremely happy with the new Oppo Sonica Dac via AirPlay. Cannot hear any differences between AirPlay and USB hardwired. Bluetooth good, but inferior to AirPlay.


----------



## mwhals

heliosphann said:


> Knock it off...
> 
> Say it two more times and he'll appear like Beatlejuice.




Did someone say my name three times? Something pulled me to appear.


----------



## Astral Abyss

hansotek said:


> In what ways does Singularity-19 improve upon the DAC-19? I ask here because I'm curious about the pairing with the Milo specifically. I would also like to know how impact compares between the two... If it's not too much trouble.


 
  
 The most notable thing for me, coming from the DAC-19 to the S19, is the S19 can resolve more detail from the music.  I can more easily locate instruments spacially and follow them in the mix.  Instrument decay seems more natural.  I have to consider this may be due to the improved processing capability of the S19 and the upgraded TCXOs I ordered with it and nothing to do with the R2R portion.  I'm using the Amanero USB input on both.
  
  
 Impact is really the only area I feel the DAC-19 beats the S19.  I'm not so sure it's less impact so much as it's clearer, so it gives the appearance of the S19 being a bit thinner and less forward with bass.  Either way, I prefer the DAC-19 for impact.  Sometimes less is more.


----------



## ProfFalkin

I've been reading how some consider the DAC-19 as warm, or at least, not the most neutral. The S19 has similar tonal character?


----------



## Astral Abyss

proffalkin said:


> I've been reading how some consider the DAC-19 as warm, or at least, not the most neutral. The S19 has similar tonal character?


 
  
 Yeah the DAC-19 has a warm character to the sound.  The S19 is neutral, although you can order it tuned to a warmer signature.  I think both flavors have their merits.


----------



## geoffalter11

As I await my Milo's arrival, I have a couple questions I hope the folks on this thread don't mind answering.  I am technologically challenged at times.  I will be using the Milo, Musette (both on way) and an iMac 2016.  What cables do I need?  My Audeze Deckard is dummy proof.  I could even figure it out.  One usb cable into my iMac and off to the races.
  
 Thank you for the help.  I am in the weeds.


----------



## mwhals

geoffalter11 said:


> As I await my Milo's arrival, I have a couple questions I hope the folks on this thread don't mind answering.  I am technologically challenged at times.  I will be using the Milo, Musette (both on way) and an iMac 2016.  What cables do I need?  My Audeze Deckard is dummy proof.  I could even figure it out.  One usb cable into my iMac and off to the races.
> 
> Thank you for the help.  I am in the weeds.




USB from Mac to Musette and RCA cables from Musette to Milo. The Musette does come with a USB cable, but I bought a better one.


----------



## geoffalter11

mwhals said:


> USB from Mac to Musette and RCA cables from Musette to Milo. The Musette does come with a USB cable, but I bought a better one.


 
 Thank you, Thank you.  Much appreciated.  What USB & RCA are you using?


----------



## mwhals

geoffalter11 said:


> Thank you, Thank you.  Much appreciated.  What USB & RCA are you using?




I bought an AudioQuest King Cobra RCA and WireWorld Starlight 7 USB.


----------



## geoffalter11

mwhals said:


> I bought an AudioQuest King Cobra RCA and WireWorld Starlight 7 USB.


 
 Thank you!  Much obliged...


----------



## Hansotek

astral abyss said:


> The most notable thing for me, coming from the DAC-19 to the S19, is the S19 can resolve more detail from the music.  I can more easily locate instruments spacially and follow them in the mix.  Instrument decay seems more natural.  I have to consider this may be due to the improved processing capability of the S19 and the upgraded TCXOs I ordered with it and nothing to do with the R2R portion.  I'm using the Amanero USB input on both.
> 
> 
> Impact is really the only area I feel the DAC-19 beats the S19.  I'm not so sure it's less impact so much as it's clearer, so it gives the appearance of the S19 being a bit thinner and less forward with bass.  Either way, I prefer the DAC-19 for impact.  Sometimes less is more.




Thank you for the in-depth notes! Hmmm... I'm pretty emotionally attached to the bass-forwardness of the DAC-19. I definitely understand what you mean, having compared it to a bunch of other DACs now.


----------



## The Piper

Hi Geoff-The best digital cables (USB, coaxial) that I have heard are easily the Dana Cables digital cables.


----------



## Hansotek

+1. DanaCables have really transformed my system. I use them for everything now. I don't know what the heck he did with that USB, but it's out of this world.


----------



## geoffalter11

the piper said:


> Hi Geoff-The best digital cables (USB, coaxial) that I have heard are easily the Dana Cables digital cables.




Thanks Piper... much obliged...


----------



## desik

Anyone could compare Milo with a $1000+ tube amp?


----------



## Hansotek

desik said:


> Anyone could compare Milo with a $1000+ tube amp?


 
  
 That's a pretty broad category... but it was good enough that I kept it and sold my $3,000 tube amp. Milo is super tight, controlled and articulate, and if you are mostly using planars, it's pretty tough to beat for less than $3k. Of course, there are some amps that are so different they are almost impossible to compare... and by that I mean OTLs, but those won't drive planars or low impedance dynamics. Milo isn't bloomy or romantic like that. I would say the more appropriate emotional association would be fun and excitement. The Milo is very fast, dynamic and impactful, and it really brings planars to life in a way very few other amps do... particularly the HE-6 and the Abyss, which are both extremely difficult to drive.


----------



## desik

hansotek said:


> That's a pretty broad category... but it was good enough that I kept it and sold my $3,000 tube amp. Milo is super tight, controlled and articulate, and if you are mostly using planars, it's pretty tough to beat for less than $3k. Of course, there are some amps that are so different they are almost impossible to compare... and by that I mean OTLs, but those won't drive planars or low impedance dynamics. Milo isn't bloomy or romantic like that. I would say the more appropriate emotional association would be fun and excitement. The Milo is very fast, dynamic and impactful, and it really brings planars to life in a way very few other amps do... particularly the HE-6 and the Abyss, which are both extremely difficult to drive.


 

 To be more specific: I'm interested how it would compare to tube amps for high impedance headphones. Someone said early in this thread that HD800 sounds better from Milo than from anything else. Curious what was that else. For planars I have no doubt Milo is no brainer.


----------



## Hansotek

desik said:


> To be more specific: I'm interested how it would compare to tube amps for high impedance headphones. Someone said early in this thread that HD800 sounds better from Milo than from anything else. Curious what was that else. For planars I have no doubt Milo is no brainer.


 
  
 I don't know, but the HD800 does sound very, very good on it. I can think of plenty of tube amps that are better with the HD800 though: DecWare CSP3, Cavalli Liquid Crimson, Glass and Tungsten, DNA Stratus and Apex Teton to name a few. But if you have a bunch of planars and an HD800 and want to drive all of them, the Milo is a great choice... especially with a warm DAC and cable... I rock the HD800 with it quite frequently.


----------



## ufospls2

desik said:


> To be more specific: I'm interested how it would compare to tube amps for high impedance headphones. Someone said early in this thread that HD800 sounds better from Milo than from anything else. Curious what was that else. For planars I have no doubt Milo is no brainer.


 
 You might be meaning me. I didn't say it sounds better the HD800 sounds better on the Milo than anything else, I did say that it was the best I have ever heard it. I'm sure there are other amps that might be better with the HD800/S, but as far as SS amps go, I really enjoy the Milo/Headtrip. 
  
 My original posts are below. Hope they help. 
  
 "Now, my HD800S doesn’t need the same amount of power as my other headphones, but its a bit of a picky bugger when it comes to amps. Not as picky as its older brother the regular HD800, but picky nonetheless. You can drive an HD800/S off your motherboard if you like, and it will sound great! But connect that same headphone to the right amp, and it really does take it to another level. The slight warmth of the Milo really does work well with the HD800S, and I’m sure it would with the regular HD800, as I used to own them and know them well. There is more bass, not mushy bass, just fast precise kick you in the face bass, compared to listening to the HD800S out of the Chord Mojo. It warms up the mids a little bit, and cools down the treble a tiny tiny bit. You have to be a bit more careful with the volume knob of the Milo when using the HD800S, but apart from that, this is a pretty damn good pairing.
  
 I used the HD800S all last night with the Milo (I used to own the regular HD800 as well) and it is the best I have ever heard them. I can only imagine the Sennheiser 650's would fair similarly. I have only heard the Elear for a short while. It is a more sensitive headphone, so I guess it doesn't *need* the power of the Milo, but it sure might benefit from the musicality, and more importantly the soundstage. I found the Elears soundstage a bit small (I like a big soundstage) so the Milo might open them up a bit. All of this is pure conjecture on my part, I could be completely wrong."


----------



## ProfFalkin

You are not wrong. My stock HD650s sound better on the Milo than any other amp I've tried. I still don't use it much, the Eikon is King of all in my house.


----------



## Hansotek

proffalkin said:


> You are not wrong. My stock HD650s sound better on the Milo than any other amp I've tried. I still don't use it much, the Eikon is King of all in my house.


 
  
 My HD600s sound amazing on it as well, especially with the Cardas Fat Pipe cable.


----------



## desik

ufospls2 said:


> You might be meaning me. I didn't say it sounds better the HD800 sounds better on the Milo than anything else, I did say that it was the best I have ever heard it.


 
 That's that I thought as well. Hansotek was very helpful to position Milo w.r.t. some tube amps.


----------



## sludgeogre

proffalkin said:


> You are not wrong. My stock HD650s sound better on the Milo than any other amp I've tried. I still don't use it much, the Eikon is King of all in my house.


 
 Any impressions yet on the Eikon as driven by the Jot vs the Milo yet? Wondering if there's a big jump in performance with that much power behind them from the Milo.


----------



## ProfFalkin

sludgeogre said:


> Any impressions yet on the Eikon as driven by the Jot vs the Milo yet? Wondering if there's a big jump in performance with that much power behind them from the Milo.


 
Jot seems to have a wee bit more bass impact, but everything is cleaner and more resolving on the Milo. Tonal balance is better. Everything seems right. 

In short, Milo is a lot like the Jotunheim, if the Jotunheim were on the NZT-48 drug from the movie Limitless. 

I'm not comparing the two beyond that. The Jot already got moved to my work setup, to replace my ifi iCan se that I used to use there.

Anyone want to buy my Ifi? Hehehe


----------



## Hansotek

proffalkin said:


> Jot seems to have a wee bit more bass impact, but everything is cleaner and more resolving on the Milo. Tonal balance is better. Everything seems right.
> 
> *In short, Milo is a lot like the Jotunheim, if the Jotunheim were on the NZT-48 drug from the movie Limitless.*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha, that's awesome!


----------



## Audio-Phile

Just checking in to see if anyone had any further experience with the Milo and the LCD4s. Sounds like a strange choice to make, but I'm sort of torn between one of these and the ALO Studio Six (I know, I know) - both get some of the most overwhelmingly wonderful reviews I've ever seen of any amp. I've been told that the Studio Six should drive the LCD4s fine despite the deceiving specs, the Milo obviously will. Trying to gather info from both camps. I'm really looking for something that will accentuate the strengths of this headphone, which, really, is everything. I do rather love bass, but I rather like it to be tight and controlled. I love detailed treble, but I cannot stand piercing, bright treble. I'm extremely sensitive to harshness of any kind. Also, stage and separation is nice to have.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Hansotek

audio-phile said:


> Just checking in to see if anyone had any further experience with the Milo and the LCD4s. Sounds like a strange choice to make, but I'm sort of torn between one of these and the ALO Studio Six (I know, I know) - both get some of the most overwhelmingly wonderful reviews I've ever seen of any amp. I've been told that the Studio Six should drive the LCD4s fine despite the deceiving specs, the Milo obviously will. Trying to gather info from both camps. I'm really looking for something that will accentuate the strengths of this headphone, which, really, is everything. I do rather love bass, but I rather like it to be tight and controlled. I love detailed treble, but I cannot stand piercing, bright treble. I'm extremely sensitive to harshness of any kind. Also, stage and separation is nice to have.
> 
> Thanks in advance.




Well, it sounds like you're looking in the right place. I'm pretty sure Milo has the tightest bass I have heard. It controls the HE-6 and the Abyss with no effort at all. And paired with the Abyss, it can summon more impact than anything else I have heard, aside from the higher-end Wells amps. I'm pretty sure it would be absolutely stunning with the LCD-4, as well.

Also treble on "problem" headphones like HD800 and HE-6 is under extremely firm control - there aren't many "reference neutral" amps that can do that, in my experience. Most of them will drift at least somewhat warm. Milo is able to do it simply via its firm control over the headphone. 

IMO, there is no other amp that can do what it does with planars for anywhere near the price. That being said, I've never compared it against the ALO Studio 6, nor have I heard the LCD-4 with the Studio 6, so I really can't offer any commentary as to how they perform relative to one another.


----------



## Audio-Phile

hansotek said:


> Well, it sounds like you're looking in the right place. I'm pretty sure Milo has the tightest bass I have heard. It controls the HE-6 and the Abyss with no effort at all. And paired with the Abyss, it can summon more impact than anything else I have heard, aside from the higher-end Wells amps. I'm pretty sure it would be absolutely stunning with the LCD-4, as well.
> 
> Also treble on "problem" headphones like HD800 and HE-6 is under extremely firm control - there aren't many "reference neutral" amps that can do that, in my experience. Most of them will drift at least somewhat warm. Milo is able to do it simply via its firm control over the headphone.
> 
> IMO, there is no other amp that can do what it does with planars for anywhere near the price. That being said, I've never compared it against the ALO Studio 6, nor have I heard the LCD-4 with the Studio 6, so I really can't offer any commentary as to how they perform relative to one another.




Thanks a lot for your input. Based off what I've read, price, & simple math, the Milo seems to be the way to go. As far as I can tell, for the money, you can't really do much better. I have to make a decision on something soon, driving these out of a Mojo is getting rather old


----------



## johnzz4

audio-phile said:


> Just checking in to see if anyone had any further experience with the Milo and the LCD4s. Sounds like a strange choice to make, but I'm sort of torn between one of these and the ALO Studio Six (I know, I know) - both get some of the most overwhelmingly wonderful reviews I've ever seen of any amp. I've been told that the Studio Six should drive the LCD4s fine despite the deceiving specs, the Milo obviously will. Trying to gather info from both camps. I'm really looking for something that will accentuate the strengths of this headphone, which, really, is everything. I do rather love bass, but I rather like it to be tight and controlled. I love detailed treble, but I cannot stand piercing, bright treble. I'm extremely sensitive to harshness of any kind. Also, stage and separation is nice to have.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
 I'm running the LCD-4 with the Yggy and the Milo.  At first I was concerned that it was a bit bass light and excessive on the treble.  My issue was power quality causing hash in the upper treble.  After getting the PS Audio P3 and finally getting some clean power, I can say the Milo is beautifully balanced and manhandles the 4s as others have mentioned.  I'm coming from the Audio-gd Master 9 which was good, but not as refined as the Milo.  I've often wondered myself about the 4s with a tube amp, however I'm finally satisfied (for a while anyway).  Take the extra money you would have spent on the Studio Six and get a P3 (on sale for $1500 on music direct right now) if you don't already have clean power.


----------



## Hansotek

johnzz4 said:


> I'm running the LCD-4 with the Yggy and the Milo.  At first I was concerned that it was a bit bass light and excessive on the treble.  My issue was power quality causing hash in the upper treble.  After getting the PS Audio P3 and finally getting some clean power, I can say the Milo is beautifully balanced and manhandles the 4s as others have mentioned.  I'm coming from the Audio-gd Master 9 which was good, but not as refined as the Milo.  I've often wondered myself about the 4s with a tube amp, however I'm finally satisfied (for a while anyway).  Take the extra money you would have spent on the Studio Six and get a P3 (on sale for $1500 on music direct right now) if you don't already have clean power.




Certain houses have more problematic power than others. PS Audio does a great job, in comparison to many of the garbage power conditioners from other companies. Honestly, their lower-end models will really get the job done too. I just have a Duet and it fixed very ugly AC problems at my old apartment. That model is discontinued now, but you can get a PS Audio Dectet for $499, which will help with treble, bass, and dynamics and drop the noise floor on any amplifier. 

I do also recommend getting nice power cables on either side of that, if you really want that last layer of refinement. I use a high current Pangea AC9-II to run to my Duet (beware, it's not very flexible, but it sounds fantastic) and a Wireworld Electra 7 to run to my amp, as it provides unrestrained dynamics, top-notch musicality, excellent clarity and exceptional refinement overall.

Improvements like this will have improvements on just about any high-end amplifier - though I feel it should be noted that the Wells Amps are far less finicky about power than some others. Cavalli gear, for example, is extremely sensitive to AC power.


----------



## johnzz4

hansotek said:


> Certain houses have more problematic power than others. PS Audio does a great job, in comparison to many of the garbage power conditioners from other companies. Honestly, their lower-end models will really get the job done too. I just have a Duet and it fixed very ugly AC problems at my old apartment. That model is discontinued now, but you can get a PS Audio Dectet for $499, which will help with treble, bass, and dynamics and drop the noise floor on any amplifier.
> 
> I do also recommend getting nice power cables on either side of that, if you really want that last layer of refinement. I use a high current Pangea AC9-II to run to my Duet (beware, it's not very flexible, but it sounds fantastic) and a Wireworld Electra 7 to run to my amp, as it provides unrestrained dynamics, top-notch musicality, excellent clarity and exceptional refinement overall.
> 
> Improvements like this will have improvements on just about any high-end amplifier - though I feel it should be noted that the Wells Amps are far less finicky about power than some others. Cavalli gear, for example, is extremely sensitive to AC power.


 
 Agreed that the Wells is less finicky - especially compared to the Master 9 that preceded it.  The hash I was having was more likely coming from the dirty power going to the Yggy which I find to be quite finicky.


----------



## Jozurr

Yeah I've been looking for a decent power conditioner or regenerator but can't seem to decide one for under $1000. Unfortunately thats what we don't have: a thread just discussing power conditioners.


----------



## johnzz4

jozurr said:


> Yeah I've been looking for a decent power conditioner or regenerator but can't seem to decide one for under $1000. Unfortunately thats what we don't have: a thread just discussing power conditioners.


I have a Furman Elite 15PFi that is only a month old that I'd part with for $575 shipped in the US. That showed me what's possible with power conditioning and caused me to invest in the PS Audio. It's almost as good as the P3.


----------



## geoffalter11

johnzz4 said:


> I have a Furman Elite 15PFi that is only a month old that I'd part with for $575 shipped in the US. That showed me what's possible with power conditioning and caused me to invest in the PS Audio. It's almost as good as the P3.




Anyone have experience with the PS Audio Dectet? Is it worth the money?


----------



## Hansotek

geoffalter11 said:


> Anyone have experience with the PS Audio Dectet? Is it worth the money?




I have the Duet, which kind of a minimalist version of the Dectet (4 plugs on 2 isolated blocks instead of 10 isolated plugs) - IMO, it is stellar and really drops the noise floor to an astonishingly low level. It makes my old Furman power supply sound like a bad joke. I would absolutely recommend it.


----------



## geoffalter11

hansotek said:


> I have the Duet, which kind of a minimalist version of the Dectet (4 plugs on 2 isolated blocks instead of 10 isolated plugs) - IMO, it is stellar and really drops the noise floor to an astonishingly low level. It makes my old Furman power supply sound like a bad joke. I would absolutely recommend it.




Thank you kindly.


----------



## ProfFalkin

hansotek said:


> I have the Duet, which kind of a minimalist version of the Dectet (4 plugs on 2 isolated blocks instead of 10 isolated plugs) - IMO, it is stellar and really drops the noise floor to an astonishingly low level. It makes my old Furman power supply sound like a bad joke. I would absolutely recommend it.




If you ever take a look inside Furman stuff, compare it to even standard run-of-the-mill stuff from trip lite, you'll never buy their crap again.


----------



## Jozurr

I've went ahead and created a thread where we can move this discussion too. It'll be healthy to have some recommendations on there!
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/840715/power-conditioners-regenerators-lets-talk-about-clean-power#post_13358230


----------



## geoffalter11

A question for all you Milo owners.  As I await my Milo's delivery I am wondering about volume control.  More specifically, how to set the volume from my iMac.  Does it matter what volume I set my computer to when it goes to my DAC and into The Milo?  Is there a limit for what the computers internal volume should be set at?  Does it make a difference to the sound of amp?  Does it change the quality of the sound being that my computers sound isn't as good?  Thanks in advance.


----------



## mwhals

I keep my PC volume at full and adjust with the Milo. Only if I had no real range of movement of the volume knob would I use the PC volume. That is just my personal opinion.


----------



## geoffalter11

mwhals said:


> I keep my PC volume at full and adjust with the Milo. Only if I had no real range of movement of the volume knob would I use the PC volume. That is just my personal opinion.


 
 Thank you.  I have my mac set at about 90% with my Deckard.  I have no idea if it helps or hurts, that is why I am asking.  Anxiously awaiting my Milo's arrival.  It will be Hanukkah in March or April when it arrives.


----------



## geoffalter11

mwhals said:


> I keep my PC volume at full and adjust with the Milo. Only if I had no real range of movement of the volume knob would I use the PC volume. That is just my personal opinion.


 
 I wanted to thank you for the help with cables.  I ended up getting a Moon Audio Silver Dragon USB and a Blue Dragon Interconnect.  They seem to be great, although I cannot put a figure to how much they are improving SQ.  I also got my first power conditioner, which I noticed a little darker background with.  Not huge changes, but each one seems to be helping incrementally.


----------



## mwhals

geoffalter11 said:


> I wanted to thank you for the help with cables.  I ended up getting a Moon Audio Silver Dragon USB and a Blue Dragon Interconnect.  They seem to be great, although I cannot put a figure to how much they are improving SQ.  I also got my first power conditioner, which I noticed a little darker background with.  Not huge changes, but each one seems to be helping incrementally.




Glad it worked out.


----------



## geoffalter11

mwhals said:


> Glad it worked out.




So much fun seeing how each piece of the chain affects the outcome. I feel like I am just getting started.


----------



## johnzz4

geoffalter11 said:


> A question for all you Milo owners.  As I await my Milo's delivery I am wondering about volume control.  More specifically, how to set the volume from my iMac.  Does it matter what volume I set my computer to when it goes to my DAC and into The Milo?  Is there a limit for what the computers internal volume should be set at?  Does it make a difference to the sound of amp?  Does it change the quality of the sound being that my computers sound isn't as good?  Thanks in advance.


It is best to keep digital audio at 100% and do the volume control in the analog domain (Milo).


----------



## drwlf

johnzz4 said:


> It is best to keep digital audio at 100% and do the volume control in the analog domain (Milo).


 

 WTS: dynamic range.


----------



## geoffalter11

Thank you for the advice


----------



## johnzz4

Do you guys leave the Milo on all the time? If not, how much warmup time does it seem to need?


----------



## mwhals

johnzz4 said:


> Do you guys leave the Milo on all the time? If not, how much warmup time does it seem to need?




I do not leave mine on constantly. I think 15 to 30 minutes of warm-up is good enough.


----------



## ProfFalkin

mwhals said:


> I do not leave mine on constantly. I think 15 to 30 minutes of warm-up is good enough.



I leave mine on, when I forget to turn it off that is. 

I don't think it matters too much. When I turn it on, get logged into the PC, get settled in and start listening a good 10+ min has gone by. That's enough warm up time for me.


----------



## mwhals

I think warm up is more important to a R2R DAC than the Milo.


----------



## Astral Abyss

mwhals said:


> I think warm up is more important to a R2R DAC than the Milo.


 
  
 I notice a distinct improvement in the sound after 20-30 minutes of warm up of the Milo.  That's with the Singularity 19 on 24/7.


----------



## mwhals

mwhals said:


> I do not leave mine on constantly. I think 15 to 30 minutes of warm-up is good enough.







astral abyss said:


> I notice a distinct improvement in the sound after 20-30 minutes of warm up of the Milo.  That's with the Singularity 19 on 24/7.




That is near what I said above. 15 to 30 minutes for me.


----------



## geoffalter11

All great advice.  I have been wondering if it was meant to stay on all the time or to be turned off.  My Deckard gets pretty warm, but definitely needs to be warmed up.  I will heed this advice for when my Milo arrives.


----------



## geoffalter11

Does the Milo need 200 hrs of burn in?  Do you notice a big difference after burn in?  I assume it will need 100-200 hrs...


----------



## mwhals

Wells Audio recommends 200 hours of burn-in.


----------



## geoffalter11

mwhals said:


> Wells Audio recommends 200 hours of burn-in.


 
 Thank you.  Did you notice a huge difference?


----------



## mwhals

I noticed a difference, but my ZMF Eikon was burning in with the Milo, so part of the difference is likely due to the Milo burn-in and part of it due to the Eikon burn-in.


----------



## geoffalter11

mwhals said:


> I noticed a difference, but my ZMF Eikon was burning in with the Milo, so part of the difference is likely due to the Milo burn-in and part of it due to the Eikon burn-in.


 
 I have an Ori/Omni.  I am told The Milo is the best SS amp on earth for it.  How do you like it with your Eikon?


----------



## mwhals

geoffalter11 said:


> I have an Ori/Omni.  I am told The Milo is the best SS amp on earth for it.  How do you like it with your Eikon?




It is great with the Eikon and the Atticus. I also have an Ori, which sounds great with the Milo.


----------



## geoffalter11

mwhals said:


> It is great with the Eikon and the Atticus. I also have an Ori, which sounds great with the Milo.


 
 I am happy to hear... My power hungry Omni's will be happy when Milo arrives.


----------



## Hifi59

So I hosted a headphone meet today and my Milo (using Oppo Sonica Dac) got its a** handed to it by a $7k Eddie Current Studio Six tube amp connected to a $13k Chord Dave Dac! Not too shocked by this. Actually, the Milo faired rather well up against this beast of a combo. The Studio Six simply had this big,broad, uber authoritive sound with more air and separation between instruments like I've never heard before. Having said that, I think the Milo was a better performer overall than the Audio-GD Master 9 amp . Also worth noting was that I prefer my LCD-4 and Hifiman He-1k more than the Focal Utopia, Stax Sr-007 mk1 and Mr. Speaker Ether Flow. A fun and educational day overall.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

hifi59 said:


> So I hosted a headphone meet today and my Milo (using Oppo Sonica Dac) got its a** handed to it by a $7k Eddie Current Studio Six tube amp connected to a $13k Chord Dave Dac! Not too shocked by this. Actually, the Milo faired rather well up against this beast of a combo. The Studio Six simply had this big,broad, uber authoritive sound with more air and separation between instruments like I've never heard before. Having said that, I think the Milo was a better performer overall than the Audio-GD Master 9 amp . Also worth noting was that I prefer my LCD-4 and Hifiman He-1k more than the Focal Utopia, Stax Sr-007 mk1 and Mr. Speaker Ether Flow. A fun and educational day overall.




That's awesome. It looks like Jelt showed up with the Studio/Dave? It looks like the Eddie Current 2A3 and Zana Deux were also present. Any comparison? I also noticed the CA Andromeda.


----------



## Hifi59

liu junyuan said:


> That's awesome. It looks like Jelt showed up with the Studio/Dave? It looks like the Eddie Current 2A3 and Zana Deux were also present. Any comparison? I also noticed the CA Andromeda.





You are correct on all the about except the 2A3. It's the Eddie Current 445. Andromeda was indeed present along with the 64Audio U12. While both sounded great, I prefer the U12.
The Zana Deux runs extremely hot. The Studio Six was king though and I say with price not withstanding.


----------



## Hifi59

A Milo rave review coming soon from a major reviewer. Stand by for more info in a few days or so.


----------



## geoffalter11

hifi59 said:


> A Milo rave review coming soon from a major reviewer. Stand by for more info in a few days or so.




Will the review come thru on this thread or will be given the publication where it will live? I apologize for the questions, but this is exciting.


----------



## Hifi59

I'm sure someone or even myself will link it here once it's released.


----------



## Toolman

I'm very surprised by the (lack of) weight of the Milo. The whole thing feels kinda...cheap? Sound not withstanding of course


----------



## Astral Abyss

toolman said:


> I'm very surprised by the (lack of) weight of the Milo. The whole thing feels kinda...cheap? Sound not withstanding of course


 
  
 You can always upgrade to the Enigma or Headtrip if you need more weight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  But yeah, the shell was reduced to the basics to keep costs down, I'm sure.  You can blow a lot of the total cost on metal and finishing.  The dial was kept nice and hefty though.  Very satisfying to turn, especially with the Khozmo upgrade.


----------



## ProfFalkin

astral abyss said:


> You can always upgrade to the Enigma or Headtrip if you need more weight.    But yeah, the shell was reduced to the basics to keep costs down, I'm sure.  You can blow a lot of the total cost on metal and finishing.  The dial was kept nice and hefty though.  Very satisfying to turn, especially with the Khozmo upgrade.




I was worried about the gain on the Milo. I talked to Mr. Wells about it and decided to go without the attenuator to drop gain, but to go ahead with the Khozmo + Vishay configuration. 

Extremely glad I did. Plenty of play on the knob, and the sound is fantastic.


----------



## geoffalter11

proffalkin said:


> I was worried about the gain on the Milo. I talked to Mr. Wells about it and decided to go without the attenuator to drop gain, but to go ahead with the Khozmo + Vishay configuration.
> 
> Extremely glad I did. Plenty of play on the knob, and the sound is fantastic.


 
 I did the exact same thing after speaking with Mr. Wells.  I am extremely excited for its arrival.


----------



## Viper2005

I've been told my Milo (Khozmo + Vishay) is on its way! Can't wait!


----------



## Viper2005

The Milo is IN!
 Still burning in, but my initial impressions with the LCD-4:   this amp sure puts the boot to rock music!  It's got lots of impact and fast dynamics galore!
 This one has the new Khozmo and the Vishays.  I have the dial around 1 o clock with the LCD4 for normal listening and 2 o clock for fairly loud listening.  Lots of play on the dial even without any attenuator!


----------



## cskippy

I'm interested in how HE-6 fairs between Milo and Ragnarok?


----------



## Hifi59

cskippy said:


> I'm interested in how HE-6 fairs between Milo and Ragnarok?




I'm not sure how it sounds with the Ragnarok, but I can assure you that of all my headphones ( LCD-3f,LCD-4,Eikons,LCD-XC ) the biggest improvements by using the Milo, were with my he-6 and he-1k headphones compared to previous amplifiers that I was using (Burson, Audio GD M9 and Schiit). The Milo and Hifiman are a great match imo.


----------



## Hansotek

hifi59 said:


> I'm not sure how it sounds with the Ragnarok, but I can assure you that of all my headphones ( LCD-3f,LCD-4,Eikons,LCD-XC ) the biggest improvements by using the Milo, were with my he-6 and he-1k headphones compared to previous amplifiers that I was using (Burson, Audio GD M9 and Schiit). The Milo and Hifiman are a great match imo.d




FWIW, I can also confirm that it is stellar with the HE400 & HE500.


----------



## ufospls2

Anyone at Can Jam have a listen to this? No clue what it is. If I had to guess...Headtrip Reference? New Chassis? I've emailed Jeff Wells to see if he can share any info.


----------



## geoffalter11

ufospls2 said:


> Anyone at Can Jam have a listen to this? No clue what it is. If I had to guess...Headtrip Reference? New Chassis? I've emailed Jeff Wells to see if he can share any info.




That is exactly what it is. I listened to it yesterday. Insanely good. Best sounding amp at the show. Used a Chord Dave as the DAC. Wow, a system of dreams.


----------



## Toolman

That should be the WA Reference and it will set you back 150 Benjamins


----------



## ufospls2

It is indeed the Headtrip Reference. I've got some more pictures courtesy of Jeff. Hope I get to hear it some day. Apologies for posting this in the Milo thread, but its the most active Wells Audio thread, and I figured fans of Wells Audio would be interested.


----------



## Hansotek

geoffalter11 said:


> That is exactly what it is. I listened to it yesterday. Insanely good. Best sounding amp at the show. Used a Chord Dave as the DAC. Wow, a system of dreams.




I agree. Absolutely stunning. Loved it with the ZMF Eikon and Abyss Phi.


----------



## geoffalter11

hansotek said:


> I agree. Absolutely stunning. Loved it with the ZMF Eikon and Abyss Phi.




We are in complete agreement. It sounded blissful with the Eikon and Abyss. Also with the HE-6. It was my highlight of the show. Nothing even close to that Amp. There were a lot of great products, but the headtrip reference was like seeing color tv for the first time.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Yeah, but that price. I don't think I put $15000 into the down-payment on my car...


----------



## geoffalter11

proffalkin said:


> Yeah, but that price. I don't think I put $15000 into the down-payment on my car...




Yes, out of my budget by too much to even consider. Not an option. The Milo is 80% of the sound. In fact, Jeff Wells thinks in ways the Milo is his best amp. That he created a sound in the Milo that is almost perfect. Comforting to know...


----------



## ufospls2

hansotek said:


> I agree. Absolutely stunning. Loved it with the ZMF Eikon and Abyss Phi.


 
 Did you notice a difference between the Milo/Enigma/Headtrip/Headtrip Reference? Assuming they were all there. Any thoughts on the Abyss vs. Abyss Phi?


----------



## Hansotek

ufospls2 said:


> Did you notice a difference between the Milo/Enigma/Headtrip/Headtrip Reference? Assuming they were all there. Any thoughts on the Abyss vs. Abyss Phi?




Yeah, it sounds a little different. More neutral and WAY more transparent. Listening on the DAVE and Headtrip Reference it was excruciating to take the headphone off and give it to the next guy. I was legitimately sad for a minute there!


----------



## ProfFalkin

hansotek said:


> Yeah, it sounds a little different. More neutral and WAY more transparent. Listening on the DAVE and Headtrip Reference it was excruciating to take the headphone off and give it to the next guy. I was legitimately sad for a minute there!




Don't cry child. I'll hold you.


----------



## geoffalter11

hansotek said:


> Yeah, it sounds a little different. More neutral and WAY more transparent. Listening on the DAVE and Headtrip Reference it was excruciating to take the headphone off and give it to the next guy. I was legitimately sad for a minute there!




Not as didferent as I thought it would. Milo has some secret sauce in it that is unique and gratifying. I thought it sounded as good as the Enigma. The Headtrip Reference was exactly as Hansotek said. Transparency was off the charts. And the DAVE, oh boy...


----------



## gr8soundz

geoffalter11 said:


> Not as didferent as I thought it would. Milo has some secret sauce in it that is unique and gratifying. I thought it sounded as good as the Enigma. The Headtrip Reference was exactly as Hansotek said. Transparency was off the charts. And the DAVE, oh boy...


 
  
 Did they also have a Milo setup running off a DAVE?
  
 Just wondering how much improvement might have been coming from the DAC used to demo the Headtrip.


----------



## Hansotek

hansotek said:


> Yeah, it sounds a little different. More neutral and WAY more transparent. Listening on the DAVE and Headtrip Reference it was excruciating to take the headphone off and give it to the next guy. I was legitimately sad for a minute there!




I was talking about the Abyss Phi, but I suppose you could apply the same comments to the Headtrip Reference, lol. The Headtrip Reference is the best solid state I've heard, I think. Really just about as close to perfection you can get with the Phi and DAVE in the chain.


----------



## Jozurr

Do you really need the Milo in the chain if you are using dave except for like Abyss/LC4/HE6 maybe?


----------



## geoffalter11

jozurr said:


> Do you really need the Milo in the chain if you are using dave except for like Abyss/LC4/HE6 maybe?




I thought the Milo sounded better than the DAVEs amp. It is more analog sounding to my ears. The DAC on the DAVE was insanely good. As good as any DAC I've heard. I listened to the LCD 4 out of DAVE as amp and dac as well as just dac with Milo. Preferred the Milo. My favorite combo of the weekend was a tie between the Headtrip/Dave with the Dharma D1000 and the Head Amp GSX / Holo Spring Singxer (spelling) with the Utopia. Utopia startled me with its speed sand imaging. I learned that my Milo is one of a kind.


----------



## Hifi59

If anyone on the fence on buying the Milo, I'd will be posting mine this weekend on head-fi sales forum. It's only 4 months old and has Khozmo upgraded volume control. Only selling as I stepped it up to the, gulp, ....Headtrip.


----------



## geoffalter11

hifi59 said:


> If anyone on the fence on buying the Milo, I'd will be posting mine this weekend on head-fo sales forum. It's only 4 months old and has Khozmo upgraded volume control. Only selling as I stepped it up to the, gulp, ....Headtrip.


 
 Good luck with the Headtrip.  I listened to the Headtrip Reference last weekend.  Blew my brains out!  You are in for a treat...


----------



## cskippy

Is the headtrip just a headphone amplifier?  I would be looking at a First Watt or Pass amp at that price point.  Speaker taps for headphones and can also be used with...speakers.


----------



## geoffalter11

cskippy said:


> Is the headtrip just a headphone amplifier?  I would be looking at a First Watt or Pass amp at that price point.  Speaker taps for headphones and can also be used with...speakers.


 
 Yes, just a headphone amp.


----------



## Hifi59

cskippy said:


> Is the headtrip just a headphone amplifier?  I would be looking at a First Watt or Pass amp at that price point.  Speaker taps for headphones and can also be used with...speakers.




I liked the Milo so much, I just wanted more goodness
Bought a 9 month old unit for a really good price.


----------



## Astral Abyss

hifi59 said:


> I liked the Milo so much, I just wanted more goodness
> Bought a 9 month old unit for a really good price.


 
  
 I hope you'll enjoy it.  Don't see how you couldn't though.  Did your recent meet have something to do with this decision?


----------



## Hifi59

astral abyss said:


> I hope you'll enjoy it.  Don't see how you couldn't though.  Did your recent meet have something to do with this decision?




Well that's a great question. Hmmm....not sure. I guess if anything, the meet actually showed me just how good the Milo is. I guess I could have searched for a tube amp since I was so impressed with the Eddie Current Studio, but I understand that unit is a rare beast. I have heard many tube amps at meets and with the exception of the Studio, I still prefer the Milo. This lead me to keep an eye out for the next best thing, imo, so a Headtrip or Enigma were on my radar.I found one at a very nice price and decided to go for more Wells Audio goodness.


----------



## Hansotek

hifi59 said:


> Well that's a great question. Hmmm....not sure. I guess if anything, the meet actually showed me just how good the Milo is. I guess I could have searched for a tube amp since I was so impressed with the Eddie Current Studio, but I understand that unit is a rare beast. I have heard many tube amps at meets and with the exception of the Studio, I still prefer the Milo. This lead me to keep an eye out for the next best thing, imo, so a Headtrip or Enigma were on my radar.I found one at a very nice price and decided to go for more Wells Audio goodness.




You're in for a treat. Jeff loaned me a Headtrip for about 2 or 3 months when I was reviewing the Abyss. It is everything you like about the Milo, taken to a whole new level.


----------



## ufospls2

hifi59 said:


> If anyone on the fence on buying the Milo, I'd will be posting mine this weekend on head-fi sales forum. It's only 4 months old and has Khozmo upgraded volume control. Only selling as I stepped it up to the, gulp, ....Headtrip.


 
 Hope you enjoy it!!!


----------



## Gibson59

Can anyone offer any comparison to the Woo WA22?  I was strongly considering that amp before @Hifi59 kindly suggested the Milo to me on the HE1000 thread.  I will be running my HE1000 v2 through a bitfrost multibit DAC.  I know not as fancy as many out there but i love the sound out of the bimby.  I got to hook it up to the WA22 the other day and felt the pairing with my DAC sounded absolutely amazing.  With that said, i've read quite a bit of this thread... color me intrigued by the Milo!  I admit I do enjoy a slightly warm euphonic tube sound.  I'm after a big soundstage, great imaging and resolution (aren't we all).  I listen to mostly classic rock, jazz, blues and classical.


----------



## Hansotek

weissja36 said:


> Can anyone offer any comparison to the Woo WA22?  I was strongly considering that amp before @Hifi59
> kindly suggested the Milo to me on the HE1000 thread.  I will be running my HE1000 v2 through a bitfrost multibit DAC.  I know not as fancy as many out there but i love the sound out of the bimby.  I got to hook it up to the WA22 the other day and felt the pairing with my DAC sounded absolutely amazing.  With that said, i've read quite a bit of this thread... color me intrigued by the Milo!  I admit I do enjoy a slightly warm euphonic tube sound.  I'm after a big soundstage, great imaging and resolution (aren't we all).  I listen to mostly classic rock, jazz, blues and classical.




I like the WA-22, but IMO the Milo is clearly the superior amplifier, especially with the HE-1000 V2 or any planar. From what I have heard, the Milo seems to get a little tubey-er sounding with the Khozmo attenuator and Vishay resistors, if you're after that type of sound. Regardless of which way you go, I have yet to hear a better amp for planars at the price. IMO, the Wells amps are the kings when it comes to orthos.


----------



## Shmuel

Can anyone chime in with Wells Audio Milo amp vs Microzotl2 amp? I've been enjoying my Microzotl2 but have read wonderful things about Wells audio for some time now, and i do wonder what all the extra wattage would bring to my HE1000v2.

Any thoughts?


----------



## pedalhead

I hope you'll all forgive the spam,...I'm considering selling my Wells Enigma (240v), upgraded with XLR inputs and a really nice Elma 47-stepper. Not 100% sure yet but if anyone is interested, drop me a PM. Cheers.


----------



## geoffalter11

pedalhead said:


> I hope you'll all forgive the spam,...I'm considering selling my Wells Enigma (240v), upgraded with XLR inputs and a really nice Elma 47-stepper. Not 100% sure yet but if anyone is interested, drop me a PM. Cheers.




Forgiven... Enigma sounded great at Canjam.


----------



## Clsmooth391

shmuel said:


> Can anyone chime in with Wells Audio Milo amp vs Microzotl2 amp? I've been enjoying my Microzotl2 but have read wonderful things about Wells audio for some time now, and i do wonder what all the extra wattage would bring to my HE1000v2.
> 
> Any thoughts?


 
  
 Very curious about this too. Has anyone heard both?


----------



## Hifi59

clsmooth391 said:


> Very curious about this too. Has anyone heard both?




I haven't heard the MicroZotl2 but I talked to Zach of ZMF. He owns both, he stated in an email to me that the Milo is best sounding ss amp he has heard to date and then added I also like the Microzotl2 but it can't drive some headphones.

His quote on the Milo

It's an amazing sound, so powerful and smooth, I love it, my favorite solid state I've ever had for sure.


----------



## Dillan

The Milo is badass man! I am about to post a review about it actually - once I finish writing it.


----------



## geoffalter11

The Milo IS Badass... I just received it today.  First and foremost, Jeff Wells is a class act.  As good as my Milo sounds, He is an even better person.  All I can say is, WOW!  My music has been freed.  I have no ability to comprehend the concept of "end game" as the journey is truly the prize.  Right now, I am going to just enjoy the journey through my music knowing that I have a companion such as the Milo to guide me.


----------



## Dillan

Anyone who has taken semi professional looking pics of the Milo and doesn't mind me using them for my upcoming review.. PLEASE pm me. It would be a huge help and of course I will give you credit in the review.

Thanks in advance if anyone can help!


----------



## WNBC

Considering this amp.  Current headphones HD800S and Z1R.  Nothing power-hungry yet, but down the road I will probably return to orthos but it is not a main motivator for picking an amp.
  
 I'm in between amps right now and borrowing a Headamp GS-X II.  Recent past amp was MicroZOTL-S.  Considering another MicroZ, iCan Pro as well as the loaner GS-X II.
  
 Any way to hear this amp in Washington state?  Trying to break the habit of buying and then selling to hear new things.
  
 I don't necessarily have one particular preference for an amp.  Mainly that I don't want it to be slow and syrupy.  The speed and resolution of the GS-X is top notch.  The soundstage, body and tone of MicroZOTL-S makes it a winner as well.  The MicroZ can also be modded to get even more improvement.  Both are also good preamps.  
  
 I'm really torn these days on an amp between $1500-2500.  Lots of good choices and trying to narrow it down to one.


----------



## nickosiris

geoffalter11 said:


> The Milo IS Badass... I just received it today.  First and foremost, Jeff Wells is a class act.  As good as my Milo sounds, He is an even better person.  All I can say is, WOW!  My music has been freed.  I have no ability to comprehend the concept of "end game" as the journey is truly the prize.  Right now, I am going to just enjoy the journey through my music knowing that I have a companion such as the Milo to guide me.



 


Correct on all counts. You just wait til your Milo is burned in though...


----------



## Dillan

Yea Jeff is an awesome dude. And the Milo certainly has the best ratio of power to size that I've seen. Not to mention the sound is spot on too. It was smart of him to come out with it and the price is certainly doable too - only bad part for me is it didn't fit in my rack due to the height so i had to put it on the very top, which wasn't a big deal. It's supposed to be for a desktop anyway. But yea the very light weight and skinny upright design is pretty cool imo.. makes it that much more surprising when you see how much power it pushes.


----------



## Hansotek

I'll be bringing the Milo to the Minneapolis meet this Sunday at Needle Doctor, if anyone in the area is looking to hear it.


----------



## a1uc

Looking forward to spending some time with the Milo this weekend


----------



## mwhals

I am noticing a static type of sound since I received a replacement cable for one that went bad. What could be the problem?

I do not hear it in all music, but I think it is because it is drowned out by the type of music. Is it PC noise? I do have a brickwall surge protector. Maybe I will plug the Milo to the wall outlet directly and see if it goes away.

JRiver Media>USB>Jitterbug>Uptone Regen>Metrum Musette>AudioQuest Cobra>Milo>ZMF XLR cable>ZMF Eikon.


----------



## a1uc

replacement cable ?


----------



## Hifi59

mwhals said:


> I am noticing a static type of sound since I received a replacement cable for one that went bad. What could be the problem?
> 
> I do not hear it in all music, but I think it is because it is drowned out by the type of music. Is it PC noise? I do have a brickwall surge protector. Maybe I will plug the Milo to the wall outlet directly and see if it goes away.
> 
> JRiver Media>USB>Jitterbug>Uptone Regen>Metrum Musette>AudioQuest Cobra>Milo>ZMF XLR cable>ZMF Eikon.



Make sure there are no digital devices like cell phones within maybe a foot of the amp. Also try moving it away from your Dac a bit if they're side by side.


----------



## mwhals

a1uc said:


> replacement cable ?



My ZMF Eikon cable needed replaced due to the left channel going out.


----------



## mwhals

Hifi59 said:


> Make sure there are no digital devices like cell phones within maybe a foot of the amp. Also try moving it away from your Dac a bit if they're side by side.



Duh! I should have known. I guess I am just so tired from traveling and arriving at hotels and home after midnight twice in four days. Everything is sounding clear and good now with the cell phone a little farther away.


----------



## Dillan

Oh my god this new site design is frustrating. Can anyone tell me how to post a new review? I want to publish my Milo review and can't figure out how. I added the amp to the head gear section, but that is as far as I can get.


----------



## gr8soundz (Apr 30, 2017)

I don't think the reviews section is working again yet. I check fairly often for new reviews and it used to update a few times a day but the latest listed is still from almost a week ago.

Edit: Can't find my old review either......


----------



## Dillan

Wow.. Head-Fi you have slowly let me down progressively over the years but this is on another level lol


----------



## omniweltall

Dillan said:


> Oh my god this new site design is frustrating. Can anyone tell me how to post a new review? I want to publish my Milo review and can't figure out how. I added the amp to the head gear section, but that is as far as I can get.



Looking forward to our review. 

Yes, I agree. I'm also getting used to this new design. I'm so used to the old one. .


----------



## Dillan

Does anyone mind adding the Milo for me as a product under the headgear section? I think there is a bug to where if I create the product then it will not let me create a review for it.


----------



## Gibson59 (May 4, 2017)

Well I get to join the club!  I had a chance to audition the Enigma a couple of nights ago with both my HEK v2 and Z1R (along with the Chord Dave which really spoiled my ears).  This was with Gary from Audiophile Zone here in Los Angeles who's got such amazing gear to play with.  Great guy and always so helpful.  Needless to say I was impressed with the Enigma.  I reluctantly downgraded the Dave to hook the Enigma up to my Bitfrost Multibit DAC and still loved the sound.  Long story short I just got off a great call with Jeff and my Milo is ordered!  I opted for the Khozmo attenuator and Vishay resistors as this is meant to be my end game for the foreseeable future.  If it sounds anywhere as close to the Enigma as everyone says I know i'm in for a treat.  The wait begins.


----------



## johnzz4

weissja36 said:


> Well I get to join the club!  I had a chance to audition the Enigma a couple of nights ago with both my HEK v2 and Z1R (along with the Chord Dave which really spoiled my ears).  This was with Gary from Audiophile Zone here in Los Angeles who's got such amazing gear to play with.  Great guy and always so helpful.  Needless to say I was impressed with the Enigma.  I reluctantly downgraded the Dave to hook the Enigma up to my Bitfrost Multibit DAC and still loved the sound.  Long story short I just got off a great call with Jeff and my Milo is ordered!  I opted for the Khozmo attenuator and Vishay resistors as this is meant to be my end game for the foreseeable future.  If it sounds anywhere as close to the Enigma as everyone says I know i'm in for a treat.  The wait begins.


Congrats, and yes, it's a painful wait.   Milo is certainly where I'm staying for quite a while... once I got some respectable power cords and signal cables, I'm hard pressed to imagine anything much better.  That said, I'm sure I'll end up with the Headtrip in a few years.


----------



## Gibson59

johnzz4 said:


> Congrats, and yes, it's a painful wait.   Milo is certainly where I'm staying for quite a while... once I got some respectable power cords and signal cables, I'm hard pressed to imagine anything much better.  That said, I'm sure I'll end up with the Headtrip in a few years.



I almost gave in and went for an Enigma since it can be upgraded to a Headtrip over time. I usually opt for totl options knowing I get the upgrade bug fairly easily. But the Headtrip is so far beyond my budget at the moment I just couldn't justify the extra expense since by all accounts the Milo will get me damn close to the Enigma.

What power cord are you enjoying with the Milo? And what DAC are you using?


----------



## johnzz4

weissja36 said:


> I almost gave in and went for an Enigma since it can be upgraded to a Headtrip over time. I usually opt for totl options knowing I get the upgrade bug fairly easily. But the Headtrip is so far beyond my budget at the moment I just couldn't justify the extra expense since by all accounts the Milo will get me damn close to the Enigma.
> 
> What power cord are you enjoying with the Milo? And what DAC are you using?


I have the Yggdrasil for a DAC and I'm using Shunyata Zitron Viper PCs on everything.  They're on sale everywhere at $400 right now (normally $600).  The big gains with the PCs came when I did the whole system.


----------



## a1uc

I spent a week now with the Milo and I like what I am hearing drives my Abyss with no problem , I also am using my Utopia HP also 

DAC : Totaldac Twelve 
Server : Antipodes DX V2 
Cables : Antipodes Reference, Wywires Juice 2


----------



## Hansotek

Spent some quality time jamming out in the Wells Audio room at AXPONA. Definitely one of my favorite rooms of the show. Jeff's speaker amps have that same "clean with explosive dynamics" sound that I love about the Milo, Enigma and Headtrip.


----------



## Dillan

https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/wells-audio-milo.22368/reviews

Went ahead and posted my review. Not a finished product yet, but will make my finals edits and additions over the next day or two.

Hope you Milo fans dig it!


----------



## BillJGW

I have just finished reading this entire thread and may purchase a Milo in the very near future.  Just one quick question first.  Has anyone heard the Milo driving Ether Flows?  Any info would be great.


----------



## Hifi59

BillJGW said:


> I have just finished reading this entire thread and may purchase a Milo in the very near future.  Just one quick question first.  Has anyone heard the Milo driving Ether Flows?  Any info would be great.



I did at a meet I held a few months ago. I did not like the Flows, but that had nothing to do with the Milo.
There were many amps there and I didn't like the Flows on any of them. I suppose a tube amp might be best for them as I found them to be a bit brittle,bright, lacking body and possessing no personality at all. A year earlier, I listened to both the Ether and Ether C and felt the same way back then. This is not to say that they are a bad headphone, but I find Hifiman he-500,he-6,he-1k and all Audeze LCDs to be superior IMO.


----------



## BillJGW

Thanks, Hifi59.


----------



## Hansotek

BillJGW said:


> I have just finished reading this entire thread and may purchase a Milo in the very near future.  Just one quick question first.  Has anyone heard the Milo driving Ether Flows?  Any info would be great.



Should work great, but be sure to get the Khozmo attenuator upgrade, as it has a more aggressive volume taper and the Ether Flow is fairly sensitive. I haven't listened to the Ether Flow on it, but I spent a good amount of time listening to the ÆON on it when I did my review and it was very lively and dynamic.


----------



## BillJGW

TBH, I was just putting a feeler out there wrt the Ether Flows.  I have read up quite a bit on them here on HF and some folks said they could be a bit bright while many others couched this rather in terms of sparkle or transparency.  Personally, I like HPs that have great transient attack but not at the expense of being in any way bright.  My thought was that possibly the Milo with its iron control and total lack of grain may tame any perceived brightness the Ether Flows may (or may not) have.  I will probably steer clear of them.


----------



## nickosiris

Dillan said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/wells-audio-milo.22368/reviews
> 
> Went ahead and posted my review. Not a finished product yet, but will make my finals edits and additions over the next day or two.
> 
> Hope you Milo fans dig it!



Nice review Dillan. One thing about it does concern me though: Your very last sentence "I know I enjoyed every second I spent with it." Past tense? You mean you don't have the Milo any more?!? My deepest sympathies....


----------



## Hifi59

New review of Milo. Outstanding, as usual.

http://headphone.guru/wells-audio-milo-handcrafted-california/


----------



## dolgen

Hifi59 said:


> New review of Milo. Outstanding, as usual.
> 
> http://headphone.guru/wells-audio-milo-handcrafted-california/


Does anybody have any comparisons to report between the Wells Milo and the Beta 22?


----------



## Dillan

nickosiris said:


> Nice review Dillan. One thing about it does concern me though: Your very last sentence "I know I enjoyed every second I spent with it." Past tense? You mean you don't have the Milo any more?!? My deepest sympathies....



I enjoyed it so much that I am having a head trip built right now haha I absolutely love the milo and Jeff is a world class engineer and an overall cool dude.


----------



## nickosiris

Ah, phew, was worried for you!

I'm not sure I'll ever have the pleasure of trying out an even-better Wells amp, but for now, with the Milo, I'm certainly not going to be looking around for any other amp for the foreseeable future.


----------



## johnzz4 (Jun 8, 2017)

Deleted


----------



## Gibson59

Just wanted to report that after about a week of listening i'm thoroughly enjoying my Milo!  It's probably got about 60 hours on it between overnight burn-in and my listening.  Random note... in talking to Jeff apparently it's pronounced "my-low" vs "me-low" as i had been pronouncing it for some reason.  This has probably been mentioned, but he named it after his nephew, which I think is cool.  Gotta love family!  Jeff seems like a legit dude and i'm happy guys like him are taking such good care when building gear for us.

The Milo is just effortlessly squeezing every ounce of quality out of my HE1000 v2.  Their is no harshness whatsoever to the sound.  The highs get sparkly and i hear the details, while going nowhere near bright (and i'm sensitive to that).  Mids are full but not over pronounced, they provide energy in certain songs that is very welcomed (mids are very important to me and i'm completely content here).  The lows go very deep when called upon, but have such a sense of control that i'm not really used to.  Rather than just hearing a common deep bass hit/thump, it's so cool to be able to distinguish where the deep note begins and ends.  It's given me more of an appreciation for carefully crafted bass lines that used to just play a supporting role in many songs to me.  Also, dare I say it the Milo is almost tube-like.  Not that it's overly warm or syrupy, in fact i think it's fairly neutral, but it sounds very organic and real vs sterile and digital sound quality that i've heard through some solid state amps.

For inquiring minds i've been mainly listening with the volume pot between 10 o'clock and 1 o'clock (rarely past 12 though).  11 o'clock seems to be my sweet spot with most music.  I can turn louder than 1 with some songs without making my ears bleed, but don't really need to.

I'm loving the look and build quality.  Upright may not be for everyone, but with a few additions to it's stock form at Jeff's recommendation, this was a lot of money for me to pay for an amp so i appreciate that it has a unique quality and is an attention grabber when friends are over.

In the end, the only drawback in my eyes is that there are no tubes to play with (not Milo's fault of course!).  If i didn't enjoy my brief time tube rolling with the Schiit Lyr 2 (sold it because I didn't like it with the HE1000) so much this would be the only amp i would ever need.  I may get a Woo WA6 or something in that price range for every once in a while when i wanna mix things up and get some warm syrupy distortion!  But this thing is a keeper for sure and I'm thoroughly content with the sound of my HEKs now.


----------



## The Piper

weissja36 said:


> Just wanted to report that after about a week of listening i'm thoroughly enjoying my Milo!  It's probably got about 60 hours on it between overnight burn-in and my listening.  Random note... in talking to Jeff apparently it's pronounced "my-low" vs "me-low" as i had been pronouncing it for some reason.  This has probably been mentioned, but he named it after his nephew, which I think is cool.  Gotta love family!  Jeff seems like a legit dude and i'm happy guys like him are taking such good care when building gear for us.
> 
> The Milo is just effortlessly squeezing every ounce of quality out of my HE1000 v2.  Their is no harshness whatsoever to the sound.  The highs get sparkly and i hear the details, while going nowhere near bright (and i'm sensitive to that).  Mids are full but not over pronounced, they provide energy in certain songs that is very welcomed (mids are very important to me and i'm completely content here).  The lows go very deep when called upon, but have such a sense of control that i'm not really used to.  Rather than just hearing a common deep bass hit/thump, it's so cool to be able to distinguish where the deep note begins and ends.  It's given me more of an appreciation for carefully crafted bass lines that used to just play a supporting role in many songs to me.  Also, dare I say it the Milo is almost tube-like.  Not that it's overly warm or syrupy, in fact i think it's fairly neutral, but it sounds very organic and real vs sterile and digital sound quality that i've heard through some solid state amps.
> 
> ...


Hi weissja36-Great review of the Milo. I think you really nailed it on the sound and characteristics, especially the lack of any etch or electronic signature but without sacrificing any resolution. BTW, Milo is my grandson and not nephew. Honest mistake. Keep up the good work!


----------



## Gibson59

The Piper said:


> Hi weissja36-Great review of the Milo. I think you really nailed it on the sound and characteristics, especially the lack of any etch or electronic signature but without sacrificing any resolution. BTW, Milo is my grandson and not nephew. Honest mistake. Keep up the good work!



Thanks Jeff. Glad to offer much deserved praise for this amp. Great new descriptive word "etch" for my sound vocab!


----------



## Hansotek

weissja36 said:


> ...in talking to Jeff apparently it's pronounced "my-low" vs "me-low" as i had been pronouncing it for some reason.



"Me-low" is Russian version. In mother Russia, amplifier listens to you!


----------



## Lucas_ob

looks pretty


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Does anybody happen to know how it compares to a Mapletree (MAD) Ear+ HD? I've been totally content with the Ear+ HD, just wondering how green the grass is over at the Milo camp


----------



## wadi

Does anyone know if Milo is using negative feedback?


----------



## Gondwana

Hey fellow owners.
How well does this drives the lcd4s? ?

Is it not to warm?


----------



## Hansotek

Gondwana said:


> Hey fellow owners.
> How well does this drives the lcd4s? ?
> 
> Is it not to warm?



Should be great. The Milo really matches up well with all planars. I know a couple of folks on here use it to drive the LCD-4.


----------



## Hifi59

Gondwana said:


> Hey fellow owners.
> How well does this drives the lcd4s? ?
> 
> Is it not to warm?



It not only drives my LCD-4 beautifully, but I can simultaneously connect my Hifiman He-6 and it's still plenty loud without any sign of 
audible distortions. 

It's not too warm at all but yet has Tube sound qualities.


----------



## drew911d (Jul 26, 2017)

Just ordered a Milo with Khozmo and Vishay.  Excited and looking forward to get it.

Question, I asked for the aggressive taper Khozmo because I would sometimes use easier to drive headphones, but I'll mainly use it with Abyss Phi.  The guy on the phone said it should be ok for the Phi, but not for the older version..  Maybe I should change back to the less aggressive taper?  Would it be more versatile, like if I wanted to try other HP's at meets?  Which is best if I only use it with the Phi?

I should get a call tomorrow to confirm the order, then 4-5 days build time.  Excited!


----------



## Hansotek

drew911d said:


> Just ordered a Milo with Khozmo and Vishay.  Excited and looking forward to get it.
> 
> Question, I asked for the aggressive taper Khozmo because I would sometimes use easier to drive headphones, but I'll mainly use it with Abyss Phi.  The guy on the phone said it should be ok for the Phi, but not for the older version..  Maybe I should change back to the less aggressive taper?  Would it be more versatile, like if I wanted to try other HP's at meets?  Which is best if I only use it with the Phi?
> 
> I should get a call tomorrow to confirm the order, then 4-5 days build time.  Excited!



Nice! Great choice. The Khozmo attenuator has a lot more play than the stock Tocos pot. You should be fine either way with the Phi. If it were me, I'd just ask for the pot's taper to be as evenly distributed as they can possibly get it. But that's just me.


----------



## tunes (Jul 27, 2017)

Anyone have a chance to compare the Wells Audio Milo Headphone Amplifier with the Vioelectric  V281 or Macintosh MHA 100?


----------



## Hansotek

tunes said:


> Anyone have a chance to compare the Wells Audio Milo Headphone Amplifier with the Vioelectric  V281 or Macintosh MHA 100?



I haven't spent enough time with the MHA100 to pass judgement one way or another (maybe 2 minutes at the last head-fi meet), but the guy  who brought it was blown away when he plugged his HE-6 into the Milo. 

As for the V281, I have listened to it on several occasions and I am not a fan. It feels to me like the dynamics of the music are unnaturally blunted on that amp and the sound is very warmed over. It's like an amp that wants to be tubey, but can't pull it off in a very natural way. I have spoken to a couple other reviewers that agree. Of course, it is all subjective. I have a couple friends on here who quite enjoy the V281. Of course, 2 out of 3 of them have now sold it and one of them now owns a Milo, which he loves... so there's that.


----------



## Astral Abyss

I'm anxiously awaiting the repair and return of my Milo.  The right channel went out on it.  You never know how much you'll miss something until it's gone.  

I picked up a Schiit Eitr to play around with in the meantime.  Great little device.


----------



## drew911d

I have a question about DAC options.  I'm looking at the Mytek Brooklyn, liking what I'm seeing, but would it work well with the Milo?  It's a hot output that can easily overdrive and cause distortion if not setup properly.  Anybody try this combo?  If it would work, what is the best setup/interconnect option?

Thanks again for any knowledge sharing.


----------



## drew911d

Unpacked my Abyss Phi yesterday and the Milo today.  What an awesome combo, and near perfect delivery timing.  I don't think I've heard Black Sabbath - Planet Caravan sound so good!  Super snappy drums, full of life and spacious.  This is with just my Pono line out..  Gotta decide on a good desktop Dac now.


----------



## Hifi59 (Aug 26, 2017)

drew911d said:


> I have a question about DAC options.  I'm looking at the Mytek Brooklyn, liking what I'm seeing, but would it work well with the Milo?  It's a hot output that can easily overdrive and cause distortion if not setup properly.  Anybody try this combo?  If it would work, what is the best setup/interconnect option?
> 
> Thanks again for any knowledge sharing.



As far as dacs go, I'm sure the Brooklyn is great as reviews would suggest. I had the Milo and now the Headtrip. I've had the Chord Dave ( borrowed)  connected to my Headtrip and after hearing it, I immediately sold my Oppo Sonica Dac. It was embarrassed by the Dave. Then I connected the Cambridge Azur 851N and wow. I loved it. I'll put it up against the Dave all day long ( at least when streaming Tidal HiFi). Extremely pleased. Open,airy with plenty of punch. It was What Hi-Fi! Product of the year in 2016. Anyway, a great pairing with Milo or Headtrip.


----------



## redstar

May i ask, how does the Milo, or headtrip (not the reference version) synergise and sound with the LCD-X?
Cheers.


----------



## Hifi59 (Aug 26, 2017)

I don't have the X but I do have the LCD-Xc  2016 version(along with the LCD-3f and LCD-4) It sounds outstanding with either amp. The Milo/Headtrip bring out the best of every headphone I've thrown at them.
While all headphones are at their best with them, I find Hifimans (he-500,he-6 and he-1k V1 and V2) to scale best when  using them with the Milo/Headtrip.


----------



## drew911d

As far as I've seen, that Headtrip Reference is still just a one off prototype.  I'd love to try it, but my wallet wouldn't be happy.


----------



## redstar

This is very posative, thanks.


----------



## Hansotek

drew911d said:


> As far as I've seen, that Headtrip Reference is still just a one off prototype.  I'd love to try it, but my wallet wouldn't be happy.



I believe that was the intention, but a couple people bought them anyway. Not sure if I'm remembering that correctly, but I'm fairly sure.

I do know that it is the best amp I've heard (outside of the Sennheiser HE-1, which doesn't really count because it's a complete system and it's nearly 4X the price).


----------



## musicman59

I own an Enigma with upgrades almost to the level of the Headtrip and I love it's sound. I am used to listen to some music while I am falling asleep so I have a small system in my night stand. I used to have a V200 and now I have a MIT Vero HCA50ex but I still crave the Wells sound so yesterday I pulled the trigger for a Milo with the Khozmo/Vishay and Bybee in the AC. I was surprise that the manufacturing/testing time is just 1 week. It will ship Monday.
Now to take pictures to put the V200 and the HCA50ex for sale....


----------



## drew911d

Bybee?  Is that a new upgrade, or one that I missed?


----------



## Astral Abyss

Yeah, I'm intrigued.  Do tell.


----------



## musicman59

I don't know if it is new but it is not in Jeff's website yet. He is using a new , smaller and (supposedly) better Bybee filter in the AC. That is one of the upgrades in the Enigma and stock in the Headtrip. It was more difficult to implement in the Milo due to space but with this new one it can be done.


----------



## The Piper

musicman59 said:


> I don't know if it is new but it is not in Jeff's website yet. He is using a new , smaller and (supposedly) better Bybee filter in the AC. That is one of the upgrades in the Enigma and stock in the Headtrip. It was more difficult to implement in the Milo due to space but with this new one it can be done.


I have been contemplating a reference level version of the Milo for some time now but have not been able to settle on the suite of improvements I want to employ. With the introduction of a smaller version of the Bybee AC purifier), and at a reduced cost I should have a decision on the product that I want to introduce. I am now listening to a Milo with the addition of the new Bybee filters (which Jack believes are even more effective than the current larger version)I should have an announcement on the improvement package and cost associated with it by Thursday evening. I will try and get the info on the website then and also publish it on this thread. Please stand by for the changes. The new reference version of the Milo promises to be a substantial sonic upgrade from the previous versions.


----------



## drew911d

You have my interest piqued!  Would like to know about having this mod on my Milo..


----------



## The Piper

drew911d said:


> You have my interest piqued!  Would like to know about having this mod on my Milo..


Hi Drew,

  Anyone with a current Milo will have the opportunity, like almost all of our products, to send your unit in to have it upgraded. I just want to be sure of what I want to include in the upgrades before I announce it. Once the Genie is out of the bottle it is hard to put it back. I will announce the options and the price in the next couple of days. Thanks again for your support Drew and I am happy to know that you are enjoying the Milo. BTW, the latest review for the Milo was just published on Headphone.Guru.com if you were not aware.

Jeff


----------



## Gibson59

drew911d said:


> You have my interest piqued!  Would like to know about having this mod on my Milo..



+1... I'll be sending mine back for upgrades as soon as they're available.  Can't imagine and even better sound outta my Milo!  Jeff the suspense is killing me!


----------



## The Piper

weissja36 said:


> +1... I'll be sending mine back for upgrades as soon as they're available.  Can't imagine and even better sound outta my Milo!  Jeff the suspense is killing me!


I am sitting listening to the first Milo w/Khozmo fitted with the new Bybee AC purifiers and after less than 48 hours on it there is a level of resolution and dynamics not nearly achieved by the previously  available Milos. Add to this the Headtrip Reference PCBs and Furutech IEC and I think this new beast can come within spitting distance of the $15k headtrip Reference prototype. I will begin building the new Milo PCBs next week along with the new Milo Reference faceplates. We can begin taking orders next week. Call me to place your order.

Jeff


----------



## drew911d

The Piper said:


> I am sitting listening to the first Milo w/Khozmo fitted with the new Bybee AC purifiers and after less than 48 hours on it there is a level of resolution and dynamics not nearly achieved by the previously  available Milos. Add to this the Headtrip Reference PCBs and Furutech IEC and I think this new beast can come within spitting distance of the $15k headtrip Reference prototype. I will begin building the new Milo PCBs next week along with the new Milo Reference faceplates. We can begin taking orders next week. Call me to place your order.
> 
> Jeff




You had me at hello!


----------



## The Piper

drew911d said:


> You had me at hello!


Drew-You should have let me know. My typing skills are severely limited.


----------



## The Piper

weissja36 said:


> +1... I'll be sending mine back for upgrades as soon as they're available.  Can't imagine and even better sound outta my Milo!  Jeff the suspense is killing me!


Jordan,

  We are now doing the Milo upgrades. For further information please see the Milo page on the website. Let me know if you would like to send yours in for the upgrade.

Jeff


----------



## Gondwana

Selling mine,  if anyone is interested.


----------



## johnzz4

Gondwana said:


> Selling mine,  if anyone is interested.


What amp are you going with instead?


----------



## szymonsays

I just snagged a used Milo in the classifieds  Didn't think i'd see one available in Europe in the near future. And i'm so glad i was patient as i was pretty close to purchasing a used Ragnarok.


----------



## Gibson59

szymonsays said:


> I just snagged a used Milo in the classifieds  Didn't think i'd see one available in Europe in the near future. And i'm so glad i was patient as i was pretty close to purchasing a used Ragnarok.



What a find! Congrats and enjoy your Milo


----------



## johnzz4

szymonsays said:


> I just snagged a used Milo in the classifieds  Didn't think i'd see one available in Europe in the near future. And i'm so glad i was patient as i was pretty close to purchasing a used Ragnarok.


Yes, congrats.. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.


----------



## ufospls2 (Sep 30, 2017)

With this talk of the Milo reference, I thought I would post these photos as some might be interested. Looks like a prototype of the Headtrip Reference? Maybe a production model? Either way, I'd love to hear it some day. Very reminiscent of the Innamorata Signature.


----------



## Gondwana

johnzz4 said:


> What amp are you going with instead?



I'm actually selling my whole desktop setup, I will just listen to iems atm.


----------



## szymonsays

What a brilliant amp! Coming from a Violectric V200, i didn't realize you could hear such a massive upgrade by purchasing a better amp. My MDR-Z1R and LCD-3 sound absolutely spectacular through the Milo. They're alive! hehe


----------



## The Piper

szymonsays said:


> What a brilliant amp! Coming from a Violectric V200, i didn't realize you could hear such a massive upgrade by purchasing a better amp. My MDR-Z1R and LCD-3 sound absolutely spectacular through the Milo. They're alive! hehe


Thanks Szymon,

  We just need more people to be aware of it. Spread the word.


----------



## FLTWS

Sub'd


----------



## Hifi59

Latest Milo review. Not bad...not great. I think with extended listening, he would have higher praise for it.

http://earphiles.org/category/reviews/


----------



## heliosphann (Nov 20, 2017)

Hifi59 said:


> Latest Milo review. Not bad...not great. I think with extended listening, he would have higher praise for it.
> 
> http://earphiles.org/category/reviews/



Meh. I rarely agree with that reviewer's opinion. Veiled??? lol


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Only heard the milo once with auteur and thought that it's pretty amazing; lush and engaging. I am pretty sure this has been asked but how does it pair with HD800?


----------



## Hansotek

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Only heard the milo once with auteur and thought that it's pretty amazing; lush and engaging. I am pretty sure this has been asked but how does it pair with HD800?



It’s really good with it. Nice an punchy, a little tubey, treble is very well controlled.


----------



## omniweltall

heliosphann said:


> Meh. I rarely agree with that reviewer's opinion. Veiled??? lol


That reviewer is one of the very few ears i trust.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Hansotek said:


> It’s really good with it. Nice an punchy, a little tubey, treble is very well controlled.



sounds like a great match with HD800 



omniweltall said:


> That reviewer is one of the very few ears i trust.



I never find it veil at all. It was a short listening session but enough to tell that the auteur performs better with milo than ican pro.


----------



## Hifi59

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Only heard the milo once with auteur and thought that it's pretty amazing; lush and engaging. I am pretty sure this has been asked but how does it pair with HD800?



You will, likely for the first time, hear the bass that the 800s are capable of and they won’t sound as peakish as you might be used to.


----------



## nickosiris

heliosphann said:


> Meh. I rarely agree with that reviewer's opinion. Veiled??? lol



It's funny... If I'd never heard of the Milo and read that review I'd think it tremendously positive and be thinking something like "Wow that's fascinating, I'd love to try one out, it sounds right up my street". However, because I know and love the Milo so much I'm violently defensive about it and if a reviewer uses phrases like "stuffy and dark", "veiled" or "wooly" and suggests that "The iFi flagship is actually the better all around _[sic]_ performer" I'm spitting feathers and marking him down as a reviewer never to trust! 

Incidentally if he's hearing "humming" and finding that "the noise floor was very audible" then something's wrong somewhere in the equipment chain. I've never even noticed there IS a noise floor with the various sources and headphones I've tried with the Milo, let alone it being an issue.

From a purely reviewing-the-review standpoint this one isn't perfect. He directly contradicts himself over the Milo's alleged "wooliness" at one point and doesn't seem to grasp what most people mean by 'microdynamics' at all. However as I've said by this point I'm a very unreliable witness as I'm admittedly biased against any less-than 100% positive review of Jeff Wells' small but perfectly formed powerhouse. Each to their own OF COURSE (and wouldn't it be a boring world if we all liked the same things) but "slight glossiness"? Gimme a break...


----------



## Hifi59

nickosiris said:


> It's funny... If I'd never heard of the Milo and read that review I'd think it tremendously positive and be thinking something like "Wow that's fascinating, I'd love to try one out, it sounds right up my street". However, because I know and love the Milo so much I'm violently defensive about it and if a reviewer uses phrases like "stuffy and dark", "veiled" or "wooly" and suggests that "The iFi flagship is actually the better all around _[sic]_ performer" I'm spitting feathers and marking him down as a reviewer never to trust!
> 
> Incidentally if he's hearing "humming" and finding that "the noise floor was very audible" then something's wrong somewhere in the equipment chain. I've never even noticed there IS a noise floor with the various sources and headphones I've tried with the Milo, let alone it being an issue.
> 
> From a purely reviewing-the-review standpoint this one isn't perfect. He directly contradicts himself over the Milo's alleged "wooliness" at one point and doesn't seem to grasp what most people mean by 'microdynamics' at all. However as I've said by this point I'm a very unreliable witness as I'm admittedly biased against any less-than 100% positive review of Jeff Wells' small but perfectly formed powerhouse. Each to their own OF COURSE (and wouldn't it be a boring world if we all liked the same things) but "slight glossiness"? Gimme a break...



I personally can agree with all you’ve stated, however, it can produce noise if not placed correctly. I now own the Headtrip, but when I had the Milo, I discovered that if I placed my cell phone near the Milo, it would make a buzzing or humming sound (can’t remember which). It took me weeks to figure this out as it wasn’t always noticeable and when it was, I only heard it during quiet passages of a song or between songs. At least one other guy on this thread also noted this. It would also make this noise if I placed it near my Oppo Dac at that time. The noise would go away if I turned the Milo to the left nearly 90 degrees. 
This may be what the reviewer experienced.


----------



## boxxi

omniweltall said:


> That reviewer is one of the very few ears i trust.


 Ditto here. I have not heard the Milo in depth, but for his other reviews I feel the same way. His reviews are very succinct and detailed.
First impressions of the Milo are favourable for me, although the demo unit has a stepped volume pot that is annoying has hell to adjust to that sweet spot.


----------



## grizzlybeast (Nov 27, 2017)

Edit:

Thanks for catching my contradiction on the 'wooly' part.

I saw it too but wasn't trying to say the Milo bass was wooly by itself but that it had just a little more of that in its tmbre than the ican in direct comparison


No worries about ppl not trusting my reviews. Often times it's the direct comparisons that give me my perpective and everyones point of reference will be different. Also every reader will have a tough time not exaggerating what I am describing.I have a tough time not doing that myself. I do like the Milo though. Its a natural sounding ss amp...very good tones and a sweet midband with ideal bass presence.


FYI 100% sure it wasn't my chain or me picking up noises from other gear....been there ....done that. I know what I am doing at this point. Cheers!


----------



## nickosiris

Just to be clear: my point was not that it was a poor review, it was that I went into reading the review with a preset bias, and wasn't going to tolerate any sentence that didn't look like ecstatic praise. You stood no chance! You're as entitled to your opinion as much as I am.


----------



## grizzlybeast

nickosiris said:


> Just to be clear: my point was not that it was a poor review, it was that I went into reading the review with a preset bias, and wasn't going to tolerate any sentence that didn't look like ecstatic praise. You stood no chance! You're as entitled to your opinion as much as I am.


microdynamics = gradations of volume on the smaller scale. You can hear microdynamics best on light percussion from background drums and in the song accents. Those aspects give the song nuance and differences of shade around the inner details of the recording. You have have the little details audible on all kinds of equipment. Some equipment you can hear the small details very clearly and all of the information is resolved. However, those details needs to pop out and show contrast in volume and that is where I find a lot of solid states to suffer at in comparison to tube amps. The nuance can be audible but not pop or snap with the enough variation of intensity. The Milo is not bad for a SS but the Pro is better as are my tube amps in that aspect. Perhaps my understanding is incorrect and if so I would like to learn this better?


----------



## Hansotek

grizzlybeast said:


> microdynamics = gradations of volume on the smaller scale. You can hear microdynamics best on light percussion from background drums and in the song accents. Those aspects give the song nuance and differences of shade around the inner details of the recording. You have have the little details audible on all kinds of equipment. Some equipment you can hear the small details very clearly and all of the information is resolved. However, those details needs to pop out and show contrast in volume and that is where I find a lot of solid states to suffer at in comparison to tube amps. The nuance can be audible but not pop or snap with the enough variation of intensity. The Milo is not bad for a SS but the Pro is better as are my tube amps in that aspect. Perhaps my understanding is incorrect and if so I would like to learn this better?



I find tube amps and solid state amps have a vastly different presentation of micro dynamics and micro details. Comparing them is somewhat irrelevant _to a degree _- by that I mean at a certain level you're just comparing solid state and tubes with a couple exceptions on either side. Then there's the matter of recording - are we talking about reproducing the finely grained micro texture on a highly compressed master? Or are we talking about the smallest dynamic nuances on a recording with wide dynamic range? Both involve micro dynamics, but I would imagine the tasks are a bit different for the amplifier. Personally, I would prefer the Milo on the more compressed recording to unearth more micro & macro texture.... I feel like it is naturally punchy and bombastic, and it delivers both the thunder and the individual raindrops with equal aplomb amidst the storm. For something that is more wide-open and nuanced like a great recording with a super black background, I tend to lean a little more toward my tube amp to deliver more etherial dynamic color out of the black. Not that either amp is particularly weak at the other, I just feel that they have different strengths in terms of delivering micro texture.


----------



## Gibson59

@grizzlybeast really nicely written review.  I appreciate your rating system as well, very easy to understand.  It was interesting to read because it really demonstrated how differently we all hear.  

When i was looking for my current end-game amp I bought the Milo and also the iFi iCan Pro to compare the two.  While i enjoyed some strengths of the iCan Pro in the end it didn't do it for me.  To ME the Milo beat it soundly in everything besides functionality (OK maybe not price .  If I wanted/needed the swiss army knife abilities of the iCan that would have been the only thing that would have swayed me.  But as far as just grading the presentation of music it wasn't close (again, for me).  I must share that I have never experienced any hum with the Milo using any of my Grados, which are pretty sensitive.  I also didn't perceive any veil and that is something I look out for and is particularly important to me.  I agree that the iCan did sound a bit thinner and maybe that can be perceived as greater transparency?  To me the Milo just has a bit more meat/guts/heart in it's sound, but i don't think that veils it at all.  With the Milo the little subtleties and deep details on various tracks raise to the surface with ease and can be appreciated as distinct and separate from the bigger notes, all of which seem to be on display to their fullest potential.  Again, to each their own, I just don't want anyone considering the Milo to be put off by one reviewer's views so I figured I'd offer my own.  

If i had never purchased the Milo i could have been happy with the iCan because it's a very solid performer.  But when in direct comparison to the Milo i fairly quickly knew which one was for me.  As an aside, this is coming from someone who was certain I preferred tube to solid state, which i think is a pretty neat feather in the Milo's cap.  Really my only gripe with the Milo is the volume adjustment.  I have the stepped attenuation and i wish it was smooth.  Doesn't detract from my enjoyment while listening, but if it was smooth I think it would lend to a more refined feel during use..


----------



## grizzlybeast

Hansotek said:


> I find tube amps and solid state amps have a vastly different presentation of micro dynamics and micro details. Comparing them is somewhat irrelevant _to a degree _- by that I mean at a certain level you're just comparing solid state and tubes with a couple exceptions on either side. Then there's the matter of recording - are we talking about reproducing the finely grained micro texture on a highly compressed master? Or are we talking about the smallest dynamic nuances on a recording with wide dynamic range? Both involve micro dynamics, but I would imagine the tasks are a bit different for the amplifier. Personally, I would prefer the Milo on the more compressed recording to unearth more micro & macro texture.... I feel like it is naturally punchy and bombastic, and it delivers both the thunder and the individual raindrops with equal aplomb amidst the storm. For something that is more wide-open and nuanced like a great recording with a super black background, I tend to lean a little more toward my tube amp to deliver more etherial dynamic color out of the black. Not that either amp is particularly weak at the other, I just feel that they have different strengths in terms of delivering micro texture.


*Re:* _Comparing them is somewhat irrelevant to a degree - by that I mean at a certain level you're just comparing solid state and tubes with a couple exceptions on either side. 
_
I totally hear you. I had a good SET amplifiers in mind which from what I have heard, maybe not as much as you, usually shines with micro-dynamics. The simple explanation of the experience was that I found, through various recordings, the small nuances better defined and more readily available consistently on the iCan and Aficionado (I expected that from the latter with the tubes used etc).* I def agree, using generalizations like I did is misleading.* But when shopping for amps and setting ones expectations from one side of the fence or another, it is tough not to expect certain kinds of performance from one camp or another. I just don't find the Milo exceptional in that area, bottom line there. However, overall compared to the venerable HE-9 the Milo is much more tonally realistic and the timbre is much more natural.



weissja36 said:


> @grizzlybeast really nicely written review.  I appreciate your rating system as well, very easy to understand.  It was interesting to read because it really demonstrated how differently we all hear.
> 
> When i was looking for my current end-game amp I bought the Milo and also the iFi iCan Pro to compare the two.  While i enjoyed some strengths of the iCan Pro in the end it didn't do it for me.  To ME the Milo beat it soundly in everything besides functionality (OK maybe not price .  If I wanted/needed the swiss army knife abilities of the iCan that would have been the only thing that would have swayed me.  But as far as just grading the presentation of music it wasn't close (again, for me).  I must share that I have never experienced any hum with the Milo using any of my Grados, which are pretty sensitive.  I also didn't perceive any veil and that is something I look out for and is particularly important to me.  I agree that the iCan did sound a bit thinner and maybe that can be perceived as greater transparency?  To me the Milo just has a bit more meat/guts/heart in it's sound, but i don't think that veils it at all.  With the Milo the little subtleties and deep details on various tracks raise to the surface with ease and can be appreciated as distinct and separate from the bigger notes, all of which seem to be on display to their fullest potential.  Again, to each their own, I just don't want anyone considering the Milo to be put off by one reviewer's views so I figured I'd offer my own.
> 
> If i had never purchased the Milo i could have been happy with the iCan because it's a very solid performer.  But when in direct comparison to the Milo i fairly quickly knew which one was for me.  As an aside, this is coming from someone who was certain I preferred tube to solid state, which i think is a pretty neat feather in the Milo's cap.  Really my only gripe with the Milo is the volume adjustment.  I have the stepped attenuation and i wish it was smooth.  Doesn't detract from my enjoyment while listening, but if it was smooth I think it would lend to a more refined feel during use..



What Dac are you using?

Now,

Let me really put it all in perspective. I was talking about technicalities alone when it came to resolution and details. I feel that the iFi beyond being a swiss army knife, is just better designed, quieter, and cleaner. The ifi is not the amp I would keep had I both. If it were all about resolution and details the Audio GD-HE-9 would have never left my stable. *BUT the HE-9 performed in sound stage, resolution, clarity, bass control, and neutrality better than both but it sounded lifeless to me and it lacked the aspects that envoke emotion. Now for the price the HE-9 kind of performance is what I expect for 2249 when it comes to solid state performance.

I would take the Milo over both at the end of the day. BUT* I use that comparison to show where I find the iCan to stack in terms of sheer clarity, resolution, and micro dynamics. To each there own but at 2249 I think that it is just a little overpriced. In my search for my end game solid state amp, the Milo just won't cut it. It has me looking at amps like the PASS labs or the Violectric V281. Otherwise then I will just get some kind of a speaker amp and skip solid state headphone amps all together. 

Now when I got my Aficionado, I heard a veil and people looked at me like I had horns growing on my head. But I swapped the driver tube and bye bye veil. The ifi even had better inner clarity than the Aficionado until I did that and now my Aficionado is exceptionally clear. It could be that since I use the Rednet3 and Pavane that I hear things a little different. I do know that since I had the Rednet3 added that I am able to scrape up the last bits of clarity that I didn't know was there before. So I really doubt I would have used the word veiled before. 

Now the Milos much larger soundstage and better macrodynamics gives it a better sense of realism where individual instruments are easier to focus on, BUT, I am not going to retract my sentiments about it.  I said that the microdynamics are not bad at all in my review, just not an area I felt it excelled at looking at the whole picture. To draw a parrallel, The Utopia bass  has very good control, but as a whole  it is not the area it excels most at. 

It is okay though, people can hate my review and not trust me and all of the likes. It is okay. I just enjoy doing what I do with no ulterior motives. If you hear it differently than me no problem. @heliosphann can dislike my posts, this other guy can be pissed, everyone can hear it differently, no worries. Noone gets it right all the time.No reason to write me off altogether. If that was the case I would have done that to Tyll along time ago, but glean what you can and I can't help I am sorry. I just know I try my best every time.  I remember the other day someone saying the AFO had a elevated upper midrange. I heard it and thought the opposite, his ears, his perspective, his gear, YMMV.


----------



## Gibson59 (Nov 27, 2017)

@grizzlybeast no hate at all my man!  I hope i didn't come off that way.  Just obviously a big fan of my Milo.  I really applaud your reviewing effort as i tried to express.  I don't have the time nor nowhow to go into that kind of detail when reviewing or comparing.  I really do appreciate your efforts, we always need pros and cons and various opinions to make effective buying decisions for ourselves.  Not many people can afford to purchase multiple components at one time to compare which is best suited to their tastes.  Keep them coming Grizz!

At the price point the iCan is a steal, no doubt about it.  If my budget had been tighter that might have swayed me.  But when I spend what i consider to me a lot of money, i'm usually willing to stretch my budget a little bit to get exactly what i want and will have zero regrets about (aside from my pocketbook).

For the record, i've added your review site to my bookmarks list


----------



## grizzlybeast

oh not at all. You didn't come off that way. I was just addressing the whole deal. Hopefully I didn't come that way to you either. 

The Milo  is worthy of its fans.


----------



## heliosphann

Yea, I also came out a little too harsh, like what @nickosiris said. Kinda a knee jerk reaction of my bias I suppose. No hard feelings Grizz.

And just because sometimes I don't agree with your views on certain gear, doesn't mean I don't respect your reviews. They're always well done and the pics are for sure on point. I quite liked you're AR-H1 review, although I thought the bass was much better than you did.


----------



## grizzlybeast (Nov 28, 2017)

heliosphann said:


> Yea, I also came out a little too harsh, like what @nickosiris said. Kinda a knee jerk reaction of my bias I suppose. No hard feelings Grizz.
> 
> And just because sometimes I don't agree with your views on certain gear, doesn't mean I don't respect your reviews. They're always well done and the pics are for sure on point. I quite liked you're AR-H1 review, although I thought the bass was much better than you did.


I was a little over critical of it. With what it was next to it didn't stand a chance in the bass department. Perhaps I need some more mid-tier phones to do it justice, but I am weird about bass. Anyhow, no worries dude. Usually what people say first is what they mean. It is possible that the fact that you rarely agree is because we have different points of reference, but it is good that you have developed your own sense of what is correct to you, and that is what matters. The reality is that rarely have I been at mini meet where everyone agrees. Those times remind me how much opinions vary and when you hear someone out, it all makes sense from their perspective.


----------



## commtrd

DAC(s) in use with reviews? Wondering about Hugo2 in the chain with Milo. Not that I think the Audeze LCDi4 not driven adequately with H2, but still pondering the possibilities.

A DAC and its synergy with the amp and final playback element is systemically important and learning to discriminate between DAC/ amp / phones or speakers contributions is an art I think. A good review is a real help to those looking to build an audio chain and always appreciated...


----------



## grizzlybeast

Now that I think about it, the yggy would probably make a better pairing for the Milo than my Pavane. Not as black of a background but more incisive and precise with transients. Also slightly better microdynamics. My pavane has better soundstage, layering, timbre; less treble and more macrodynamics than the yggy.


----------



## Hansotek

commtrd said:


> DAC(s) in use with reviews? Wondering about Hugo2 in the chain with Milo. Not that I think the Audeze LCDi4 not driven adequately with H2, but still pondering the possibilities.
> 
> A DAC and its synergy with the amp and final playback element is systemically important and learning to discriminate between DAC/ amp / phones or speakers contributions is an art I think. A good review is a real help to those looking to build an audio chain and always appreciated...



The Hugo 2’s direct output is slightly more resolving than the Milo, but I still run it to the Milo because it adds impact, snap and musicality to the sound. I definitely prefer it with Milo in the chain subjectively. However, I would definitely steer you away from using Milo with the i4... the i4 is too sensitive for the Milo and you’re going to get a lot of background noise. The Milo is better suited for hard-to-drive headphones like the Abyss, HE-6/5/5LE/4, HE-400/500/400i/560, HE1000/V2, LCD 2/3/4/X/XC, HD800/S, HD600, K701, and ZMF Eikon/Auteur/Ori/Vibro/Blackwood.


----------



## commtrd

^^^ OK thanks for the feedback. I do have the LCD-X also but need to get a SE cable for it as it was balanced for the Mjolnir amp. Anyway the i4 is just so darn comfortable and such good SQ I just never think of any other phones to use with H2.


----------



## ajreynol (Dec 22, 2017)

Hi guys. I'm in the market for a new amp to go with my new LCD-4's.

Getting the most out of my cans for under $2000 (particularly in the bass response performance and overall clarity) are important to me.

Am I in the right place? I'm looking at this, the Taurus, Pro iCAN, and the CMA800R. Unable to demo any of them locally (I'm around Miami and can find no resellers of anything other than stuff like McIntosh), I'm stuck relying on feedback and opinions here. Any thoughts or advise would be more than welcome.

FWIW, my chain is desktop PC (99% of my listening) --> Chord 2Qute DAC --> AMP --> LCD-4.


----------



## heliosphann

ajreynol said:


> Hi guys. I'm in the market for a new amp to go with my new LCD-4's.
> 
> Getting the most out of my cans for under $2000 (particularly in the bass response performance and overall clarity) are important to me.
> 
> ...



I've not personally heard the LCD-4's on the Milo, but in general planars sound fantastic on it. I'm sure a lot of Milo owners will back that up.


----------



## ufospls2

ajreynol said:


> Hi guys. I'm in the market for a new amp to go with my new LCD-4's.
> 
> Getting the most out of my cans for under $2000 (particularly in the bass response performance and overall clarity) are important to me.
> 
> ...



I replied to you in the LCD-4 thread, so check out that post, but yeah. Milo or Pro iCAN are both good for the LCD-4.


----------



## Hansotek

ajreynol said:


> Hi guys. I'm in the market for a new amp to go with my new LCD-4's.
> 
> Getting the most out of my cans for under $2000 (particularly in the bass response performance and overall clarity) are important to me.
> 
> ...



Milo is awesome with planars.


----------



## nickosiris

ajreynol said:


> Hi guys. I'm in the market for a new amp to go with my new LCD-4's.
> 
> Getting the most out of my cans for under $2000 (particularly in the bass response performance and overall clarity) are important to me.
> 
> ...



I have a 2qute and LCD4 myself, and if there's a better SS amp under $2000 to stick between the two then I haven't heard it yet.


----------



## omniweltall

Not a fan of 2Qute or CMA800R here. Haven't heard the Milo. 

I would choose the Pro iCan from your list.


----------



## Hansotek

ajreynol said:


> Hi guys. I'm in the market for a new amp to go with my new LCD-4's.
> 
> Getting the most out of my cans for under $2000 (particularly in the bass response performance and overall clarity) are important to me.
> 
> ...



Okay, I have the Pro iCan (and iESL) here now for a couple of weeks if you have any specific questions on the Pro iCan vs. the Milo. On first listen, the Milo sounds more musically cohesive and sophisticated in it's delivery to me. Of course the iCan has it's own set of advantages, as it's probably the most versatile amp on the market with it's bazillion inputs, outputs and options. Need to listen further, and should probably sub in a generic power cable for my WireWorld Electra 7 just to be fair in more extended comparisons. Think up whatever questions you have between the two and fire away though. I'm happy to help.

I would not do the single CMA800R for the LCD-4, it's not going to have the balls of the iCAN or Milo. Two CMA800Rs running in dual mono is pretty awesome, and definitely will have more kick and soundstage vs. one CMA800R - I think that would be a more competitive option with the Milo, depending on what DAC is in front of it, as it would go quieter and be able to extract more detail, but it still wouldn't have the snap and dynamism of the Milo.

I haven't had a Taurus for an extended period of time to provide an in-depth comparison. It's always been an amp that just comes across to me as "pretty good" but I've never been blown away by it, whereas the CMA800R, Pro iCAN and Milo are all amps that have blown me away at various times.


----------



## johnzz4 (Dec 24, 2017)

What’s different about this Milo??






And don't judge the horrible wallpaper in the next room.


----------



## heliosphann

johnzz4 said:


> What’s different about this Milo??
> 
> 
> 
> And don't judge the horrible wallpaper in the next room.



9 letters.


----------



## Bucketron

Just ordered Milo with Khozmo and Vishay Z foil. Seems there is a "Milo Reference" cost at $5000, anyone know what is the upgrade of this thing?


----------



## heliosphann

Bucketron said:


> Just ordered Milo with Khozmo and Vishay Z foil. Seems there is a "Milo Reference" cost at $5000, anyone know what is the upgrade of this thing?



Check several pages back in this thread. Jeff talks about the differences.

And good choice! Welcome to the club.


----------



## Hansotek

Bucketron said:


> Just ordered Milo with Khozmo and Vishay Z foil. Seems there is a "Milo Reference" cost at $5000, anyone know what is the upgrade of this thing?



Has completely different boards. IIRC, all Vishay Naked Z-Foils throughout (like 26, I think), bybee AC purifier, silver trace wiring, super-high-end caps... all kinds of crazy maxed-out parts and features in the same essential design. The exact details are somewhere in this thread.

Jeff is putting one together for me so I can do some comparisons for you guys who are trying to figure out if you want to do the upgrade.


----------



## Bucketron

Hansotek said:


> Has completely different boards. IIRC, all Vishay Naked Z-Foils throughout (like 26, I think), bybee AC purifier, silver trace wiring, super-high-end caps... all kinds of crazy maxed-out parts and features in the same essential design. The exact details are somewhere in this thread.
> 
> Jeff is putting one together for me so I can do some comparisons for you guys who are trying to figure out if you want to do the upgrade.



Thank you!  Another crazy upgrade,  not sure how this beast will hold up with headtrip. Almost same price range now.


----------



## Hansotek

Bucketron said:


> Thank you!  Another crazy upgrade,  not sure how this beast will hold up with headtrip. Almost same price range now.



I’m interested to find out!


----------



## johnzz4

Bucketron said:


> Just ordered Milo with Khozmo and Vishay Z foil. Seems there is a "Milo Reference" cost at $5000, anyone know what is the upgrade of this thing?


I’m just getting aquatinted with the Reference, but it adds the headtrip reference boards, Furutech AC jack, Bybee AC filter, and Rike caps.  Initial impression is more body and effortless detail - another level of holographic sound.  Couldn’t be happier.  I started with the Milo with Khozmo and Vishay, and Jeff allows for a trade-in if you decide to go for the reference at some point.


----------



## johnzz4 (Dec 24, 2017)

There are some trade-offs between the Headtrip and the Milo reference.  The Headtrip has some PIO caps and Bybee filters on the rails, where the Milo reference has the Headtrip ‘Reference’ circuit boards.  For the Headtrip, I would have had to reterminate or get an adapter for the DHC Prion4 cables which made the Milo Refence preferable for me.

Very curious to hear how you feel the Milo Reference stacks up to the Headtrip, Hansotek.


----------



## ajreynol

ufospls2 said:


> I replied to you in the LCD-4 thread, so check out that post, but yeah. Milo or Pro iCAN are both good for the LCD-4.





heliosphann said:


> I've not personally heard the LCD-4's on the Milo, but in general planars sound fantastic on it. I'm sure a lot of Milo owners will back that up.





omniweltall said:


> Not a fan of 2Qute or CMA800R here. Haven't heard the Milo.
> 
> I would choose the Pro iCan from your list.


2Qute is only a DAC.



Hansotek said:


> Okay, I have the Pro iCan (and iESL) here now for a couple of weeks if you have any specific questions on the Pro iCan vs. the Milo. On first listen, the Milo sounds more musically cohesive and sophisticated in it's delivery to me. Of course the iCan has it's own set of advantages, as it's probably the most versatile amp on the market with it's bazillion inputs, outputs and options. Need to listen further, and should probably sub in a generic power cable for my WireWorld Electra 7 just to be fair in more extended comparisons. Think up whatever questions you have between the two and fire away though. I'm happy to help.
> 
> I would not do the single CMA800R for the LCD-4, it's not going to have the balls of the iCAN or Milo. Two CMA800Rs running in dual mono is pretty awesome, and definitely will have more kick and soundstage vs. one CMA800R - I think that would be a more competitive option with the Milo, depending on what DAC is in front of it, as it would go quieter and be able to extract more detail, but it still wouldn't have the snap and dynamism of the Milo.
> 
> I haven't had a Taurus for an extended period of time to provide an in-depth comparison. It's always been an amp that just comes across to me as "pretty good" but I've never been blown away by it, whereas the CMA800R, Pro iCAN and Milo are all amps that have blown me away at various times.



PM'd!

Thank everyone for all of the feedback. Definitely looking to make my final choice this week between the two of them. Any additional insights will be appreciated. I hate not being able to hear these things for myself (or face a high restocking fee), so the more thoughts the merrier. Peace of mind and all that.


----------



## omniweltall

This is my opoinion only. 

Running two CMA800R dual mono is bad choice. You don't need to spend that much to obtain a better quality. 

I don't know the price of this Milo Reference. USD5k is also pure insanity. I won't even bother trying it.


----------



## gintamafans

Personally I had tried ican pro and initially wanted it as my new amp(shocked for its price to performance), however the first impression of it was that it did more clarity and micro-dynamic. Though the more you listen to it the more you would realize it sounded very unnatural. IMO when shopping for a SS or high-end amp, the first thing you should ever look for is the naturalness it can reproduce for the headphone(In the end for an amp it should not do anything else then providing you with great power without changing the sound quality produced by your DAC or cables). So you wont end up building a system upon with one block of the chain messing the sound of the whole system. In addition, my milo was great with noise floor, completely clean....even with an earphone.... curious why so many people mentioned it in the review? maybe send it back to check if something was damaged during shipping?


----------



## Jozurr

As much as I've enjoyed this amp, unfortunately I have to put it up for sale. If anyone's interested please let me know.


----------



## jamesng45678

May I know if there is a difference between the balanced and single ended output? I am currently using the single ended output for my hd800 and i am curious if there is a difference when I change to balanced output for my headphones.


----------



## Astral Abyss

jamesng45678 said:


> May I know if there is a difference between the balanced and single ended output? I am currently using the single ended output for my hd800 and i am curious if there is a difference when I change to balanced output for my headphones.


No difference.  The XLR is just there for convenience.  The only difference you might hear would be from the cable itself.


----------



## Hansotek

jamesng45678 said:


> May I know if there is a difference between the balanced and single ended output? I am currently using the single ended output for my hd800 and i am curious if there is a difference when I change to balanced output for my headphones.



Neither output is balanced. The four pin connector is there for convenience sake. The design is unbalanced front to back. Jeff favors the unbalanced design because he feels it is more dynamic, there are fewer components in the signal path, and the lower parts count allows him to invest more in higher quality parts while keeping the customer’s total cost down.


----------



## jamesng45678

Astral Abyss said:


> No difference.  The XLR is just there for convenience.  The only difference you might hear would be from the cable itself.



Thanks for the clarification


----------



## jamesng45678 (Jun 5, 2018)

My Wells audio Milo has some problem with its left channel. After using for around an hour, the left channel will suddenly not produce any sound at all with the right channel playing music only. I have to turn off and on the amplifier to solve this problem. This problem has happened multiple times while using my amplifier. Anyone can help me on this?


----------



## ufospls2

Hmmm, have you contacted Wells Audio? Could be a loose connection, but turning it off and on wouldn't solve that. Weird. Let us know how it works out. 

I really miss my Headtrip and Milo, and thoroughly enjoyed them while I did own them. I'd love to hear the Milo Reference. Maybe I will try and pick up a used Milo some day once I have some funds together again.


----------



## johnzz4

ufospls2 said:


> Hmmm, have you contacted Wells Audio? Could be a loose connection, but turning it off and on wouldn't solve that. Weird. Let us know how it works out.
> 
> I really miss my Headtrip and Milo, and thoroughly enjoyed them while I did own them. I'd love to hear the Milo Reference. Maybe I will try and pick up a used Milo some day once I have some funds together again.


I love the Milo Reference.  Quite a step up from the Milo, but I unfortunately haven’t heard the Headtrip for comparison.


----------



## jamesng45678

ufospls2 said:


> Hmmm, have you contacted Wells Audio? Could be a loose connection, but turning it off and on wouldn't solve that. Weird. Let us know how it works out.
> 
> I really miss my Headtrip and Milo, and thoroughly enjoyed them while I did own them. I'd love to hear the Milo Reference. Maybe I will try and pick up a used Milo some day once I have some funds together again.



I have send my amplifer back to wells audio for repair. I will get back to you soon


----------



## jlbrach

i have  the dave/ blu2 combo and  find my utopia easy to drive with the combo but my abyss from time to time feels like it requires  a  bit more power for certain music....i purchased a used Milo and am  waiting for it and should have it next  week...interested to hear how  it sounds with my system!


----------



## FLTWS

jlbrach said:


> i have  the dave/ blu2 combo and  find my utopia easy to drive with the combo but my abyss from time to time feels like it requires  a  bit more power for certain music....i purchased a used Milo and am  waiting for it and should have it next  week...interested to hear how  it sounds with my system!



My Abyss Phi needs high gain settings on all my HP amps, (#2 on my Rag), to open up the sound to my liking with volume levels set at between 10 and 1 most often. And I suspect I listen at lower levels than most to keep wide dynamic range swings from distorting drivers with any of my phones on full orchestral, (Mahler, Strauss, etc.).

My other phones drive fine on low gain settings.

I considered Milo at one point, curious to see what you think of the Milo / Abyss combo.


----------



## johnzz4 (Jul 21, 2018)

My Milo "Reference" is for sale if anyone is interested.  I have to consolidate and the Milo doesn't play nice with IEMs.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-wells-audio-milo-reference.883627/

*EDIT*

I ended up keeping the Milo Reference.  I tried purchasing the Moon 430HA thinking it would be on par with the Milo - plus I'd then have a fully balanced system.  Well, what I ended up with was a newly found appreciation for the Milo Ref. which is at  whole different level of naturalness, resolution, dynamics, and transparency from the 430HA.

The 430HA is being refunded, and that money is going back to Jeff along with the Milo Reference to get the Headtrip 2.  I'm more sold than ever on Jeff and his amps.  So much for selling the Milo and pocketing a few bucks...  sigh.


----------



## EndGameSearch (Aug 15, 2018)

johnzz4 said:


> My Milo "Reference" is for sale if anyone is interested.  I have to consolidate and the Milo doesn't play nice with IEMs.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-wells-audio-milo-reference.883627/
> 
> ...


Unfortunately I do not have the option to reverse course, and I'm worried I'll regret my decision.  I picked up a Sr009 at a price I could not walk away from, sold my Susvara yesterday and listed my Milo Reference in the for sale section last night.  It really is a killer amp and drove the Susvara with ease.  As far as dynamics go, I'm down to HEKv2 straight from DAVE now.    The end of an era for my audio life...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-wells-milo-reference-edition.886570/


----------



## smodtactical

johnzz4 said:


> My Milo "Reference" is for sale if anyone is interested.  I have to consolidate and the Milo doesn't play nice with IEMs.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-wells-audio-milo-reference.883627/
> 
> ...



I wish you had the reference to do a A-B comparison between HT2 and it. Dang. But still looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## johnzz4

smodtactical said:


> I wish you had the reference to do a A-B comparison between HT2 and it. Dang. But still looking forward to your impressions.


I still have the Milo Ref until the HT2 arrives.  Jeff may let me have a little overlap so I can compare them for you and anyone else interested.  I'm certainly curious as well.  I also just pulled the trigger on the Denafrips Terminator DAC.  Fun couple of weeks ahead of me!


----------



## smodtactical (Aug 26, 2018)

johnzz4 said:


> I still have the Milo Ref until the HT2 arrives.  Jeff may let me have a little overlap so I can compare them for you and anyone else interested.  I'm certainly curious as well.  I also just pulled the trigger on the Denafrips Terminator DAC.  Fun couple of weeks ahead of me!



Damn you man, I am soooo jealous! I was just looking at it but facepalming at the price. LOL

BTW I wish I  was rich like you. Please do let us know how it all sounds?

Which DAC do you have now? When is terminator coming ?


----------



## mhpsd

I think you are going to be amazed with the HT and the LCD4.  Listened with a friend who felt it was as good as it gets.  For me the Abyss phi edged it out just a bit.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on synergy with the new DAC.  What is your current setup?


----------



## johnzz4

mhpsd said:


> I think you are going to be amazed with the HT and the LCD4.  Listened with a friend who felt it was as good as it gets.  For me the Abyss phi edged it out just a bit.
> 
> I'm curious to hear your thoughts on synergy with the new DAC.  What is your current setup?


I'm hoping.  It is pretty amazing with the Milo Reference.  I have AuralIc Aries>Yggy A2>Milo Ref>LCD4 WITH TOTL Shunyata interconnects and mid-range Shunyata power cables.  The Wireworld platinum headphone cable is my favorite of the bunch including the DHC Prion.


----------



## smodtactical

johnzz4 said:


> I'm hoping.  It is pretty amazing with the Milo Reference.  I have AuralIc Aries>Yggy A2>Milo Ref>LCD4 WITH TOTL Shunyata interconnects and mid-range Shunyata power cables.  The Wireworld platinum headphone cable is my favorite of the bunch including the DHC Prion.



Will you possibly sell Yggy if you like the terminator ?


----------



## johnzz4

smodtactical said:


> Will you possibly sell Yggy if you like the terminator ?


Most likely.  Terminator should be here late this week.


----------



## smodtactical

johnzz4 said:


> Most likely.  Terminator should be here late this week.



I would be interested in Yggy 2 

I'll follow this thread to see if you decide to sell.


----------



## nickosiris

For any Brits (or other 240V enthusiasts) interested in owning a Milo, mine's for sale:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wells-audio-milo.880849/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wells-audio-milo.880849/


----------



## smodtactical

This thread has praised Milo a lot... putting it comfortably about Master 9, V281 and I think also 430HA. But other places and people disrespect and strongly do not recommend the Milo. I am not clear on why though? Can anyone explain this. I am not trying to start drama I am simply looking for my next upgrade.


----------



## jlbrach

because all judgments are subjective.......


----------



## smodtactical

True but there should still be some actual reasoning


----------



## Hansotek

smodtactical said:


> True but there should still be some actual reasoning



Some people have a very blatant agenda against the Wells Audio stuff. I’ve never really figured out why, IMO, all of Jeff’s amps are pretty damn good.


----------



## smodtactical

Hansotek said:


> Some people have a very blatant agenda against the Wells Audio stuff. I’ve never really figured out why, IMO, all of Jeff’s amps are pretty damn good.



Someone on the discord Im on said the headtrip sounds bloated and congested. But most others have praised it so I have a feeling its a great amp.


----------



## Hansotek

smodtactical said:


> Someone on the discord Im on said the headtrip sounds bloated and congested. But most others have praised it so I have a feeling its a great amp.



Well that person is obviously an idiot.


----------



## smodtactical (Sep 12, 2018)

DELETED to avoid drama.


----------



## Gibson59

Sounds like you’ve heard from both camps and now you need to listen for yourself. It’s starting to sound like you’re just trying to stir the pot. You’ll find enough positive thoughts in this thread to understand why many, including myself, think Wells Audio amps are fantastic. Reading about it can only get ya so far bud. As someone already said, it’s all subjective.


----------



## smodtactical

weissja36 said:


> Sounds like you’ve heard from both camps and now you need to listen for yourself. It’s starting to sound like you’re just trying to stir the pot. You’ll find enough positive thoughts in this thread to understand why many, including myself, think Wells Audio amps are fantastic. Reading about it can only get ya so far bud. As someone already said, it’s all subjective.



Im not stirring the pot. I deleted my above post. Unfortunately I have absolutely no practical way of hearing these amps without buying them. I suppose I could buy, listen and sell if I don't like it but with a $7,000 USD amp thats easier said than done.


----------



## FLTWS

smodtactical said:


> Im not stirring the pot. I deleted my above post. Unfortunately I have absolutely no practical way of hearing these amps without buying them. I suppose I could buy, listen and sell if I don't like it but with a $7,000 USD amp thats easier said than done.



Your right, with the demise of most brick and mortar audio shops it is difficult to impossible to audition anything, so you pay your money and take your chances (on reselling).


----------



## smodtactical

yup  lots of 2 channel stores but basically no real hp stores (outside those with basic or limited gear)


----------



## Astral Abyss

After emailing and talking to Jeff himself, I knew he was a person I wanted to do business with.  You may want to email him as well and ask what your options would be if you didn't end up liking the amp.  The Milo, and I can only imagine the Enigma and Headtrip, is amazing with the HE-6 and Abyss Phi.


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 12, 2018)

smodtactical said:


> yup  lots of 2 channel stores but basically no real hp stores (outside those with basic or limited gear)



Not near me for 2 channel (at least contender level), I've got a choice of 1 and after that it's an hour plus ride into Philadelphia. It would be an all day project, cost to park, and mind boggling traffic to fight down and back.


----------



## mwhals

FLTWS said:


> Not near me for 2 channel (at least contender level), I've got a choice of 1 and after that it's an hour plus ride into Philadelphia. It would be an all day project, cost to park, and mind boggling traffic to fight down and back.



I had to drive 2 hours to get to businesses that sold better level equipment and speakers. Only big box stores around me like Best Buy.


----------



## The Piper

mwhals said:


> I had to drive 2 hours to get to businesses that sold better level equipment and speakers. Only big box stores around me like Best Buy.


It is a shame that much of the very best of high end audio products cannot be auditioned before purchasing. This state of affairs was unfortunately fostered by the buying public over the last 15 years or so. It became too easy just to go to the local high end store, audition all of the products, pick the brains of the store expert and then run home and buy it from some pirate on the internet for a few dollars less. This hastened the demise of most local brick-and-mortar stores and robbed the consumer of the ability to listen before purchasing. The current conditions exist because of the temptation to save a buck and shortsightedness of the consumers. High end aficionados have only themselves to blame for the currently hot business model of direct internet sales. Having said this for those couple of people who seem to be considering a purchase but are on the fence due to the fact you are not able to personally audition the product I will offer a 100% money back guarantee in the first 30 days of ownership on a new Headtrip II amp. While not a perfect alternative it is the best choice available. Please call me if interested in the offer.


----------



## Hifi59 (Nov 27, 2018)

I just received my upgraded Headtrip to Headtrip Reference (aka Level2). While it has a ways to go for full break in (500hours), I am liking very much what I’m hearing so far. Compared to my wonderful Pathos Aurium Amp (Innerfidelity Wall of Fame),The HT ref is significantly more musical and engaging. I’ve stopped the back and forth comparisons because it’s always the same result. The HT is simply more resolving and musical overall. This is not to say that the Pathos is a slouch. It’s just that the HT is that good. Comparing it from memory to the original HT, it appears to have a more organic sound and with a touch more air and breadth. There’s as ease to the music without loosing impact. Everything just sounds right. Jeff Wells kept me updated on the progress of the upgrade the entire time. I’ll post further impressions as the break in hours accumulate.


----------



## ufospls2 (Nov 27, 2018)

Hifi59 said:


> I just received my upgraded Headtrip to Headtrip Reference (aka Level2). While it has a ways to go for full break in (500hours), I am liking very much what I’m hearing so far. Compared to my wonderful Pathos Aurium Amp (Innerfidelity Wall of Fame),The HT ref is significantly more musical and engaging. I’ve stopped the back and forth comparisons because it’s always the same result. The HT is simply more resolving and musical overall. This is not to say that the Pathos is slouch. It’s just that the HT is that good. Comparing it from memory to the original HT, it appears to have a more organic sound and with a touch more air and breadth. Everything just sounds right. Jeff Wells kept me updated on the progress of the upgrade the entire time. I’ll post further impressions as the break in hours accumulate.



So is there the HeadTrip, Old Headtrip Reference (?), Headtrip Reference (Headtrip 2?), Headtrip Reference Monoblocks? I'm confused as to the line up now.

HeadTrip




HeadTrip 2 (Now called Headtrip Reference and no chassis change?)




Original Headtrip Reference Prototype



 HeadTrip Reference Monoblocks


----------



## Hifi59 (Nov 27, 2018)

ufospls2 said:


> So is there the HeadTrip, Old Headtrip Reference (?), Headtrip Reference (Headtrip 2?), Headtrip Reference Monoblocks? I'm confused as to the line up now.



From what I have gathered from Jeff.

The original Headtrip is now called the Headtrip 2 in a different case. No internal differences.
The original (prototype) HT Reference is now called the Headtrip 2 Level 2... also in a different case just like the HT2. All else being same.
My particular HT is the same as the new HT 2 Level 2 but in my original case because I wanted just the innards upgraded to become the HT 2 Level 2.
The only thing that I can’t explain is why my faceplate says Reference instead of Level 2. I’m fine with that though.
I am not sure about the mono block version. I am only aware of Jeff building a unit for a guy in Australia and it sounded incredible, per Jeff. This was before the new 2 channel references were in the works.

Also, the silver magnetic feet we’re eliminated due to final chassis design and sourcing issues. (Heatsinks no longer exposed and more acrylic instead of aluminum.)


----------



## Hifi59

New case design vs old.


----------



## ufospls2

Hifi59 said:


> From what I have gathered from Jeff.
> 
> The original Headtrip is now called the Headtrip 2 in a different case. No internal differences.
> The original (prototype) HT Reference is now called the Headtrip 2 Level 2... also in a different case just like the HT2. All else being same.
> ...



Neat, thanks for sharing man. I think there might have been two pairs of the reference monoblocks made, but I'm not sure. I know there was a pair that went overseas, but there was also the pair at CanJam NYC, which I think had a different chassis. I could be completely wrong on all of that though. Either way, looks like neat new stuff in the works.


----------



## ufospls2

Yeah it definitely looks like there have been at least two pairs of Headtrip Reference Monoblocks produced/in existence. 

What I assume are the originals 



 



And the CanJam NYC version. Notice the different heat sinks etc...


----------



## Hifi59 (Nov 27, 2018)

ufospls2 said:


> Yeah it definitely looks like there have been at least two pairs of Headtrip Reference Monoblocks produced/in existence.
> 
> What I assume are the originals
> 
> ...


Nice. I am quite sure now that the set with the exposed heatsinks were for a guy in Australia. From the looks of it, I’m willing to bet that there’s at least $50k worth of gear in that picture!


----------



## ufospls2

I just received a Milo (with Khozmo Attenutator and Vishay Resistors) in for review from Jeff Wells. I forgot how _great_ Jeffs amps sound with Abyss headphones. Currently listening with the Diana Phi, and it is awesome. I will report back after more listening!


----------



## ufospls2




----------



## johnzz4

ufospls2 said:


> I just received a Milo (with Khozmo Attenutator and Vishay Resistors) in for review from Jeff Wells. I forgot how _great_ Jeffs amps sound with Abyss headphones. Currently listening with the Diana Phi, and it is awesome. I will report back after more listening!


That’s what started my Well’s journey.  I’ll probably get the Headtrip level 2 in time, so it will have been interesting hearing all versions of his amps except the Enigma.


----------



## ufospls2

johnzz4 said:


> That’s what started my Well’s journey.  I’ll probably get the Headtrip level 2 in time, so it will have been interesting hearing all versions of his amps except the Enigma.



I think my goal is to ultimately own the Enigma 2. Having owned the original Headtrip, I feel like getting most of the performance and the same power output would be cool. If I can somehow manage it anyhow. All in good time, as they say : )


----------



## tunes

ufospls2 said:


> I think my goal is to ultimately own the Enigma 2. Having owned the original Headtrip, I feel like getting most of the performance and the same power output would be cool. If I can somehow manage it anyhow. All in good time, as they say : )


Well how does the Enigma II when paired with Susvara compare to a ss more powerful speaker amplifier with Susvara off taps??  Reading many posts regarding the full potential of Susvara seems like a speaker amp is the way to go.  What speaker amps in this price range 4K have best synergy with Susvara/DAVE/HMS??


----------



## ufospls2

tunes said:


> Well how does the Enigma II when paired with Susvara compare to a ss more powerful speaker amplifier with Susvara off taps??  Reading many posts regarding the full potential of Susvara seems like a speaker amp is the way to go.  What speaker amps in this price range 4K have best synergy with Susvara/DAVE/HMS??



Sorry I don't know, I haven't heard the Enigma 2.


----------



## musicman59

tunes said:


> Well how does the Enigma II when paired with Susvara compare to a ss more powerful speaker amplifier with Susvara off taps??  Reading many posts regarding the full potential of Susvara seems like a speaker amp is the way to go.  What speaker amps in this price range 4K have best synergy with Susvara/DAVE/HMS??


I used to drive the original HE6 with a Threshold T50 (50 watts/ch @8ohms class A) and they sounded wonderful. I would recommend any 50-100 watts/ch class A amp due to the warmer characteristics of the class A sound within SS amps.


----------



## tunes (Mar 16, 2019)

ufospls2 said:


> Yeah it definitely looks like there have been at least two pairs of Headtrip Reference Monoblocks produced/in existence.
> 
> What I assume are the originals
> 
> ...


Why two amps?
One for each channel?
Are those air suspension springs to stop the DAVE from vibrating?
Is the couch on springs as well?
Is that a giant ba


musicman59 said:


> I used to drive the original HE6 with a Threshold T50 (50 watts/ch @8ohms class A) and they sounded wonderful. I would recommend any 50-100 watts/ch class A amp due to the warmer characteristics of the class A sound within SS amps.


well


musicman59 said:


> I used to drive the original HE6 with a Threshold T50 (50 watts/ch @8ohms class A) and they sounded wonderful. I would recommend any 50-100 watts/ch class A amp due to the warmer characteristics of the class A sound within SS amps.



Well the Headtrip amp is 50 W/Chan but a dedicated headphone amp.   There are many powerful speaker amps that are less costly.  Why would one buy the Headtrip over a speaker amp?


----------



## musicman59

Yes, they are monoblocks so means one amp for each channel in that way you eliminate all crosstalk.
When I switched from stereo amplifiers to monoblocks in my speakers system I have never looked back. That soundstage presentation is much better.

It is not air suspension, If I remember correctly is magnetic suspension.


----------



## tunes (Mar 17, 2019)

Thinking of piring the Milo Reference with Hifiman Susvara.  Has anyone compared the new Milo Ref to the Headtrip using the Susvara???

How would this amp compare to a more powerful speaker amp for the Susvara running off the speaker amps taps?

Any Susvara owners compare speaker amps to this headphone amp??


----------



## johnzz4

tunes said:


> Thinking of piring the Milo Reference with Hifiman Susvara.  Has anyone compared the new Milo Ref to the Headtrip using the Susvara???
> 
> How would this amp compare to a more powerful speaker amp for the Susvara running off the speaker amps taps?
> 
> Any Susvara owners compare speaker amps to this headphone amp??


 What type of music do you listen to, Tunes?


----------



## tunes

johnzz4 said:


> What type of music do you listen to, Tunes?


Eclectic but less classical.  More Jazz, female vocalists, light rock, choral, pop


----------



## musicman59

I don't have extended experience with the Headtrip but I own the Milo Reference and an Enigma with upgrades close to the level of the Headtrip. The Milo Reference is a great little amp but IMO compared to my Enigma this one is clearly better. With the Enigma you can hear and feel the better power and control of the headphones. The sound is even more organic and at the same time cleaner and detailed with a bigger soundstage.
The Milo Reference is not a slush by any means but if you have the money to go with an Enigma with upgrades or to a Headtrip I would recommend it.


----------



## tunes

musicman59 said:


> I don't have extended experience with the Headtrip but I own the Milo Reference and an Enigma with upgrades close to the level of the Headtrip. The Milo Reference is a great little amp but IMO compared to my Enigma this one is clearly better. With the Enigma you can hear and feel the better power and control of the headphones. The sound is even more organic and at the same time cleaner and detailed with a bigger soundstage.
> The Milo Reference is not a slush by any means but if you have the money to go with an Enigma with upgrades or to a Headtrip I would recommend it.


What is the total price for the Enigma with and without upgrades?


----------



## tunes

musicman59 said:


> I don't have extended experience with the Headtrip but I own the Milo Reference and an Enigma with upgrades close to the level of the Headtrip. The Milo Reference is a great little amp but IMO compared to my Enigma this one is clearly better. With the Enigma you can hear and feel the better power and control of the headphones. The sound is even more organic and at the same time cleaner and detailed with a bigger soundstage.
> The Milo Reference is not a slush by any means but if you have the money to go with an Enigma with upgrades or to a Headtrip I would recommend it.


Some have expressed best headphone amp is XI Audio S formula with optional power supply.  Others feel Susvara needs a speaker amp to realized it full potential.  In this high price range there appear to be many options.  The output of the CHORD DAVE is like a preamp so no problem using a speaker amp with Susvara.


----------



## szymonsays

Silly question, but i'm considering getting a DAC with two balanced XLR analog outputs. Would i be able to use a XLR to RCA interconnect cable between the DAC and the Milo without causing any damage?


----------



## The Piper

szymonsays said:


> Silly question, but i'm considering getting a DAC with two balanced XLR analog outputs. Would i be able to use a XLR to RCA interconnect cable between the DAC and the Milo without causing any damage?


there should be no problem connecting an interconnect with an XLR at the DAC end to an RCA at the Milo end.


----------



## ufospls2

Hey All,

The review below can also be found on my blog, at www.headphonesnstuff.blog : )



 


Hi Guys,

Today we are talking about the Wells Audio Milo. Jeff Wells, the proprietor of Wells Audio, has a long history in the Audio business, but Wells Audio is a relatively young company, opening in 2010. Wells Audio was originally a speaker amp manufacturer, located in Northern California. Wells Audio has slowly expanded their headphone amp range to include three models, the Milo, the Enigma, and the top of the line Headtrip. Being a small shop, Wells Audio is also able to offer modifications on their designs, and there is an upgraded version of the Headtrip called the Headtrip Level 2. The Headtrip Level 2 used to be called the Headtrip Reference, to avoid any confusion. 

I suggest you pop over to www.wellsaudio.com to see what their current range includes, especially if you also enjoy listening to speakers. 

The Milo, Wells Audio’s entry level headphone amplifier, comes in a unique form factor. Taller than it is wide, it makes for a perfect desktop companion. If you have a computer etc. that you need to also fit onto your desktop, the Milo doesn’t take up too much real estate. The full technical specs are below.


Output Power-18 watts rms into 8 ohms at 1kHz with no more than .015% THD-12 watts rms into 32 ohms @ .006% THD-10 watts @46 ohms @.005% THD
Frequency Response-+/- 0.25 db from 16Hz to 30kHz
Signal To Noise Ratio- -94db at full power
Input Sensitivity-0.72mV RMS
Gain-30db (12db attenuator available, see below)
Input Impedance-17k ohms
Output Impedance-0.1 ohms
Damping Factor-80, reference 8 ohms nominal
Power Consumption-42 watts @ idle, 145 watts @ maximum power
Inputs- 1 pair RCAs, 1 pair XLRs optional (add $200.00)
Outputs- 1 x 4 pin stereo balanced connector, 1 1/4"stereo plug
Operating  Voltage-120 volt, 230 volt at 50 or 60 Hz
Shipping Dimensions-16" x 12" x 12"
Shipping Weight-10 lbs.
Dimensions-8"w x 7.5"d x 9.75"h


Build quality is great on the Milo. It isn’t too heavy, and I suppose this is a result of smart design, but also Wells Audio’s philosophy of using less, higher quality parts, than just jamming the amp full of unnecessary lower quality parts. I really enjoy the fact that I can easily bring the Milo around the house to whichever room I would like to listen in, something I haven’t been to do with amps I have owned in the past. 

As you can see in the specifications, the Milo is a powerful amplifier, not as powerful as the Enigma and Headtrip, but certainly _more_ than powerful for the vast majority of headphones on the market. I happen to own two of the harder to drive headphones available today, the Hifiman Susvara, and Abyss Diana Phi. The Milo is like a match made in heaven for these two headphones. I wouldn’t suggest using IEMs with this amp, but apart from that, it is worth trying any headphone you might own with the Milo. The Milo can also be ordered with 12db gain attenuation, for use with more sensitive headphones. 

The Milo that I have been loaned for review purposes has a couple of upgrades vs. The stock unit. It has a Khozmo stepped attenuator, and Vishay “Naked Z Foil” resistors. With that info out of the way, lets get to the most important part of the review, how the Milo _sounds.



 _

*Bass*

The Milo has a powerful sounding bass response. Perhaps this is _one_ of the reasons it works so well with Abyss headphones. The bass is never flabby sounding, or boomy. It has a rounded sound to the leading edges of the notes, never being too sharp sounding. 

*Mids*

This is one of the Milos stronger points. Its not a WARM amp, but it is on the warmer side of neutral in my opinion. The mids, similar to the RE2000, have an addictive quality about them. They just make you want to continue listening, far longer than you should. The Milo is not as neutral and transparent as the Headtrip, no. However, it is such an inviting listen, and the mids really do contribute to that. The mids are smooth and sonorous. A rich and full sound. 

*Treble*

The Milos is not an amp for treble heads, I don’t think. This isn’t to say the treble is overly rolled off, but it isn’t bright and in your face, like some amps can be. For my ears, it is just right. I do find some amps a bit on the bright side of things, but I have also heard some amps that are _way_ too rolled off, leading to a thicker gooey sound. There isn’t as much detail and transparency in the treble as there is with the Headtrip, but I suppose that is to be expected given the vast price difference. For the price, the Milo is right in the middle of the pack, of the amplifiers I have heard in terms of detail in the treble. 

*Technicalities*

The Milo has an immense soundstage. Detail retrieval on a whole is decent, in the middle of the pack as I said before, in terms of the amplifiers I have heard. The Headtrip does bring a level of refinement to the sound that is not present with the Milo, but there is something about the way the Milo presents the music that is _so damn addictive. _Dynamics are great, conveying the small changed in volume in the music well. 



 

*Combinations*

Hifiman Susvara: This is an epic combination. The Milo has enough power and gain for the Susvara, there is no doubt in my mind. The Milo adds to the Susvaras already beautiful midrange response, bringing out its finest qualities. The bass is well done, and again, powerful. Most headphone amps run out of steam with the Susvara in terms of bass, leaving it flabby, underpowered, and weak sounding. Not so with the Milo. The treble has a sweetness to it, flowing forth out of the headphones like a beautiful forest stream, rather than a bright torrent of detail like a raging river. 

Abyss Diana Phi: The Abyss Diana Phi is on the colder and more clinical side of things, and that is not a criticism. However, in combination with the Milos more romantic and warm sonic signature, it seems to strike the perfect balance. The immense detail and powerful bass from the Abyss, with the warmth and romantic, melodious sound of the Milo. There is something about the Abyss sound signature, in combination with the power and Wells Audio house sound that just _works._ I highly recommend this combo, and if you get the chance to hear it, don’t miss out!

*Comparisons*



 

iFi Pro iCAN: The iCAN is a real Swiss army knife of an amplifier, and I will go into that in detail in my upcoming review. Comparing the Milo to the iCAN (in SS mode) the iCAN is leaner sounding, with less meat on its bones. The iCAN has a bit more detail in the treble, but the Milo is just more to my preference in terms of sonic qualities and tonal balance. If you need the flexibility the iCAN provides I would certainly recommend it over the Milo, however, if you are shopping for a dedicated _headphone amplifier_ the Milo gets my recommendation 10 out of 10 times. 

*Conclusion*

The Milo is a fantastic amplifier. It has an addictive, melodious sonic signature. Music flows forth, not with gobs of in your face detail, but gobs of _emotion. _Big powerful bass, melodic and romantic (for lack of a better word) sounding mids, and just enough treble to convey the _music_ with accuracy. The Milo is built well, is light, and non-imposing physically. I can bring it around my house to wherever I want to listen with ease. It doesn’t take up too much space on a desk, but it sounds much bigger than it looks. I suppose that is one way to describe the Wells Audio sound….BIG. However, there is a but. 

Perhaps it is a case of…

BIG…but with nuance, and most importantly? _Epic Musicality._

In my opinion, Wells Audio has hit a home run with the Milo. Highly recommended listen, and I can’t wait to hear some of Wells Audios higher end designs someday!


----------



## ufospls2

Damn. I miss the Milo, what a great sounding amp. Anyone picked one up lately? This thread is quiet!


----------



## heliosphann

@Wildcatsare1 did. He's been loving it with his ZMF Verite (as I am as well).


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Yes, I did pick up a Milo, and I’m absolutely loving it with my Vérité, Aeolus, and HD650, I don’t know why this amp doesn’t get more love. It really compares quite favorably to my Woo WA5.


----------



## mwhals

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Yes, I did pick up a Milo, and I’m absolutely loving it with my Vérité, Aeolus, and HD650, I don’t know why this amp doesn’t get more love. It really compares quite favorably to my Woo WA5.



I love the Milo with my Atticus, Eikon, Auteur, and Ori.


----------



## drew911d (May 10, 2019)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Yes, I did pick up a Milo, and I’m absolutely loving it with my Vérité, Aeolus, and HD650, I don’t know why this amp doesn’t get more love. It really compares quite favorably to my Woo WA5.



That is extreme praise indeed.  I have the Milo and have heard the WA5LE with upgraded tubes using my same Abyss Phi.  It was the only amp I felt had more energy (re: classic rock guitars recorded from tube amps, think Holy Diver), and the only tube amp I've heard that had abundant (enough, or more in this case) power for Abyss.  The Milo has the power of it plus precision (did I just contradict myself?).  It's both fun and precise.  Such a fun mix.  But, don't use this with easy to drive headphones.  I think the power is overkill for easy to drive headphones.  This thing is a beast.


----------



## The Piper

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Yes, I did pick up a Milo, and I’m absolutely loving it with my Vérité, Aeolus, and HD650, I don’t know why this amp doesn’t get more love. It really compares quite favorably to my Woo WA5.


It helps when people that have heard it and/or own are more vocal about their experiences with it so that others might become more aware of it"s many virtues.


----------



## The Piper

drew911d said:


> That is extreme praise indeed.  I have the Milo and have heard the WA5LE with upgraded tubes using my same Abyss Phi.  It was the only amp I felt had more energy (re: classic rock guitars recorded from tube amps, think Holy Diver), and the only tube amp I've heard that had abundant (enough, or more in this case) power for Abyss.  The Milo has the power of it plus precision (did I just contradict myself?).  It's both fun and precise.  Such a fun mix.  But, don't use this with easy to drive headphones.  I think the power is overkill for easy to drive headphones.  This thing is a beast.


I have to disagree with not using it with more efficient headphones. The Milo is powerful for sure but you would be taking advantage of only half of it's attributes. The Milo is a very musical and natural sounding headphone. Probably the most musical in it's price range. It is full ,rich with beautiful tonality and a very rare for solid state, a touch of bloom. Don't make the mistake of believing the Milo is only a one trick pony.


----------



## Hansotek

If you guys have some old AKG K701 or 702s sitting around, try plugging those into your Milo. Those headphones got a bad wrap for being boring back in the day, but the Milo will light them up like a mofo. It’s a complete shocker, if you haven’t tried them together.


----------



## drew911d

The Piper said:


> I have to disagree with not using it with more efficient headphones. The Milo is powerful for sure but you would be taking advantage of only half of it's attributes. The Milo is a very musical and natural sounding headphone. Probably the most musical in it's price range. It is full ,rich with beautiful tonality and a very rare for solid state, a touch of bloom. Don't make the mistake of believing the Milo is only a one trick pony.



I had to say this.  I suppose I should have said extremely sensetive headphones, or IEM's.  I've tried it with my Noble K10 and there was noticable hiss.  Still great with my Abyss.  As you said, very musical.


----------



## The Piper

drew911d said:


> I had to say this.  I suppose I should have said extremely sensetive headphones, or IEM's.  I've tried it with my Noble K10 and there was noticeable hiss.  Still great with my Abyss.  As you said, very musical.


Hi Drew-Due to the high power and considerable magnetic flux from the large toroidal transformer very efficient headphones and IEMs may very well pick up a low level hiss as you have. It is only likely to happen with extremely efficient headphones. Members have a habit of just noting the high power and dynamics of the Milo and Headtrip without often noting the superior musicality. I just didn't want members to get the idea that the amps are only about driving difficult loads. My first and highest design priority is to design and build the most musical equipment in the world. I do appreciate your input.


----------



## ufospls2

Thats what I tried to highlight in my review of the Milo. Not just the power and drive ability, but the music breathing through the amp. Really great stuff, IMO.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I’m finding the Milo to extremely musical, it’s really playing to the strengths of my ZMF Cans, really anything that I throw at the amp. I’m profoundly impressed, so happy I pulled the trigger and made the purchase.


----------



## mwhals

It is a beast of an amp and drives my hardest to drive headphone, the ZMF Ori, easily. Also, it sounds awesome musically.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Yeah, I’m absolutely loving my Milo, it will remain in my system for a long time!


----------



## ufospls2

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Yeah, I’m absolutely loving my Milo, it will remain in my system for a long time!



Which ZMF cans are you using with it?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I have the Vérité and Aeolus, and Zach is letting me borrow an Atticus while I’m recovering from my back surgery.


----------



## ufospls2

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I have the Vérité and Aeolus, and Zach is letting me borrow an Atticus while I’m recovering from my back surgery.



Awesome. @zach915m is going to lend me a couple pairs for review purposes. I've never heard a ZMF headphone. Absolutely can't wait.


----------



## The Piper

ufospls2 said:


> Awesome. @zach915m is going to lend me a couple pairs for review purposes. I've never heard a ZMF headphone. Absolutely can't wait.


ZMF headphones are great. I have a pair of the Auteurs and they are a great headphone. Zach and Bevy are the very essence of what high end is about. A srelatively new, small company producing superior and innovative products. I am a big believer in supporting small and talented companies and ZMF is the poster child for this.


----------



## mwhals

I have ZMF Ori, Eikon, Atticus and Auteur.


----------



## Wes S

mwhals said:


> I have ZMF Ori, Eikon, Atticus and Auteur.


Dang!  What a group!


----------



## Hansotek

Wes S said:


> Dang!  What a group!



Are you getting or did you recently get a Milo @Wes S? I see you have 3 different T50 variants in your sig.


----------



## Gibson59

Loving the activity on this thread! My Milo drives my HEKse to perfection. Aside from potentially upgrading my DAC (Qutest) someday I truly have zero motivation to “upgrade” my amp. I’ve been tempted to add a tube amp to the stable just to mix it up sometimes, but honestly the Milo has that little bit of bloom that really appeases my need for now. It’s just so pleasing to the ear. Detailed and powerful like a solid state should be but never cold or clinical.


----------



## Wes S

Hansotek said:


> Are you getting or did you recently get a Milo @Wes S? I see you have 3 different T50 variants in your sig.


I am very interested in the Milo but don't own one, and that is why I am following this thread.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

mwhals said:


> I have ZMF Ori, Eikon, Atticus and Auteur.



My ZMF Aeolus and Vérité sing with the Milo, the Hugo2 is proving to an excellent source.


----------



## Hansotek

Wes S said:


> I am very interested in the Milo but don't own one, and that is why I am following this thread.



Nice man! Wells' stuff manhandles T50 drivers like nothing else. I would fit nicely with your headphones.


----------



## Wes S

Hansotek said:


> Nice man! Wells' stuff manhandles T50 drivers like nothing else. I would fit nicely with your headphones.


Thanks for the info!  The Liquid Platinum, manhandles the T50 mods, and is a match made in heaven.  However, I would love to have a SS amp, that can too, and I believe the Milo is the one.


----------



## Hansotek

Wes S said:


> Thanks for the info!  The Liquid Platinum, manhandles the T50 mods, and is a match made in heaven.  However, I would love to have a SS amp, that can too, and I believe the Milo is the one.



I have that amp as well, and I love it. Definitely two different sounds.


----------



## mwhals

Hansotek said:


> I have that amp as well, and I love it. Definitely two different sounds.



I love it too and it was you that recommended it to me.


----------



## musicman59

I probably will be selling my Milo with the Khozmo, Vishjays , Bybees and Furutech fuses and my Qutest in the near future.
If you are interested let me know.


----------



## Gibson59

musicman59 said:


> I probably will be selling my Milo with the Khozmo, Vishjays , Bybees and Furutech fuses and my Qutest in the near future.
> If you are interested let me know.



This is the exact same amp/DAC combo I have and I can attest to how fantastic it is! End game for me with my HEKse unless I decide to spend thousands more on a Hugo TT2 or DAVE but I doubt I’ll go that route.


----------



## UsoppNoKami

Gibson59 said:


> This is the exact same amp/DAC combo I have and I can attest to how fantastic it is! End game for me with my HEKse unless I decide to spend thousands more on a Hugo TT2 or DAVE but I doubt I’ll go that route.



Have heard the TT2 + Mscaler and also the Dave + Blu Mscaler. YMMV, but I didn't see what the hype was all about. 

Currently having a lot of fun listening to the HEKSE on my vintage Sansui AU-7700, but I have been thinking of getting a Milo or Enigma. 

Q: The reference spec Milo or an Enigma folks?


----------



## ufospls2

UsoppNoKami said:


> Have heard the TT2 + Mscaler and also the Dave + Blu Mscaler. YMMV, but I didn't see what the hype was all about.
> 
> Currently having a lot of fun listening to the HEKSE on my vintage Sansui AU-7700, but I have been thinking of getting a Milo or Enigma.
> 
> Q: The reference spec Milo or an Enigma folks?



I think it might depend on the amount of power you are wanting, but @The Piper would be the best person to talk to with regards to the Milo Reference vs. Enigma 2 question. Hard to go wrong with either to be honest.


----------



## johnzz4

ufospls2 said:


> I think it might depend on the amount of power you are wanting, but @The Piper would be the best person to talk to with regards to the Milo Reference vs. Enigma 2 question. Hard to go wrong with either to be honest.





UsoppNoKami said:


> Have heard the TT2 + Mscaler and also the Dave + Blu Mscaler. YMMV, but I didn't see what the hype was all about.
> 
> Currently having a lot of fun listening to the HEKSE on my vintage Sansui AU-7700, but I have been thinking of getting a Milo or Enigma.
> 
> Q: The reference spec Milo or an Enigma folks?


Jeff will give you some advice I’m sure. I’ve had the Milo Reference but not the Enigma.  Im guessing the Milo Ref will be the better sounding of the two, but does have a little bloom to the sound which could be good or bad depending on tastes.  I believe the Enigma is the same case, so probably gives you a better upgrade path if you plan on moving to the Headtrip or HT Level 2 in your future.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a short video review of the Wells Milo Headphone Amplifier


----------



## DelsFan

Hansotek said:


> I have that amp as well, and I love it. Definitely two different sounds.


I am considering the Milo for use with my new Ether 2 headphones.  How would you describe the differences between the Liquid Platinum and the Milo?
I've always liked the "spaciousness" of the tube sound, but there are some practicalities offered by having a solid state amp.  Also, some of the new SS amps are less grating and more tube-like (like your KGSSHV Carbon - a different genre but spectacular).  I'll be glad to hear your thoughts on the Milo!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I’ve had both, still have my Milo, which I just listed for sale, my WA5 is getting more head-time and the Wells Audio is too good to sit there. 

To your question, the Milo is far more refined, has a wider and deeper soundstage, and oddly has more of a clean, tube sound. I sold my LP, and all of my tubes about a week after the Milo arrived.


----------



## Hansotek

DelsFan said:


> I am considering the Milo for use with my new Ether 2 headphones.  How would you describe the differences between the Liquid Platinum and the Milo?
> I've always liked the "spaciousness" of the tube sound, but there are some practicalities offered by having a solid state amp.  Also, some of the new SS amps are less grating and more tube-like (like your KGSSHV Carbon - a different genre but spectacular).  I'll be glad to hear your thoughts on the Milo!



Interesting differences between the two. The Milo is faster, clearer and snappier than the Platinum and more linear overall. 

I did a 3 way comparison with the Milo, Platinum and GOTL recently using Peter Gabriel’s “Sledgehammer”. The Milo seemed to emphasize the pop of the kick and snare a bit more where the GOTL emphasizes the bass line a lot more. The Platinum sat right in the middle, not emphasizing either one as much as the other two and being ever-so-slightly more “chill” in the macro dynamics.

In terms of overall feel, this makes the Milo feel more energetic and fun, the GOTL more chill and groovy, and the Platinum a mix of the two. 

None of them are remotely fatiguing, all have a great sense of space, and all are unbelievable in terms of bang for buck. 

What you’re paying for in the extra $$$ for the Milo is better clarity and crispness in the attack and decay, and the fun, energetic Wells presentation. Platinum may feel a little “lazy” next to the Wells. Platinum has a slight advantage in terms of total blackness of the background and the resolution to price ratio is a little better, even though the Milo is a touch more resolving overall.

I love all three of the aforementioned amps (and my KSSHV Carbon, good god!). I think the right one depends a lot on your musical tastes and how you like to listen to your music, presentation-wise.


----------



## tholt

I just picked up a Liquid Platinum sort of on a whim. New on Amazon for $615 with easy return policy. I've only got about 4 hours on it with stock tubes but it's not bad by any means. Sounds a little closed in at the moment, not sure if that will open up or what (or if) anything will change during the next 50 or so hours. I've also got a few different pairs of 6922-type tubes I can roll. My only cans are Abyss 1266 Phi CC, so I bought it out of curiosity but also knowing others were successful in using it with the Abyss.

I owned the upgraded Milo. It's a good sounding amp, warmish, resolving, crap ton of power. Sounds good with the Abyss, but I actually preferred the very reasonably priced Cayin iHA-6. It's on the neutral side -- less colored I would say than the Milo. But it's got the best PRaT of the amps I've tried, and it's the cheapest to boot.



Hansotek said:


> I love all three of the aforementioned amps (and my KSSHV Carbon, good god!). I think the right one depends a lot on your musical tastes and how you like to listen to your music, presentation-wise.


 Agreed on this general outlook. It's obvious, but it really does boil down to individual tastes and type of music you listen to as to which amp will perform 'best' for you.


----------



## Gibson59

Just a heads up to anyone interested that I’ve reluctantly placed my Milo for sale in the classifieds. Decided to play with tube amps for a while just for fun. If I was staying solid state or could afford to have two TOTL amps I wouldn’t be selling. Great price for someone who’s been wanting one 

Also wanted to add that I’ve been using the Hifiman Ananda (as part of the loaner tour) in addition to my HEKse. Ananda sounds awesome with Milo! I was underwhelmed with the Chord Mojo, but with Milo the Ananda sounds like a very respectable headphone that even kinda competes with the greats IMO.


----------



## Strayngs

I have been salivating over this amp since I first discovered it. I have a Kennerton Thridi which I have learned loves power even though being fairly efficient. I watched a review on the Milo where the reviewer spent a lot of time with and rated highly the Kennerton Thror with the Milo. The Thror has the same drivers as the Thridi which gave me the confidence to take the plunge. I bought the Milo from Gibson59 (thanks man). I am so excited to have a amp with this much power. I have a extremely nice tube amp which I will likely put up for trade for some more difficult to drive headphones that I have never had the correct power for! I have some very efficient headphones which might not play so well. If you guys were recommending a headphone in the $1000 range for the Milo, which would it be? I think my ampsandsound amp should pull about $1000 worth of trade. I am very exited. Thanks guys


----------



## Gibson59

Strayngs said:


> I have been salivating over this amp since I first discovered it. I have a Kennerton Thridi which I have learned loves power even though being fairly efficient. I watched a review on the Milo where the reviewer spent a lot of time with and rated highly the Kennerton Thror with the Milo. The Thror has the same drivers as the Thridi which gave me the confidence to take the plunge. I bought the Milo from Gibson59 (thanks man). I am so excited to have a amp with this much power. I have a extremely nice tube amp which I will likely put up for trade for some more difficult to drive headphones that I have never had the correct power for! I have some very efficient headphones which might not play so well. If you guys were recommending a headphone in the $1000 range for the Milo, which would it be? I think my ampsandsound amp should pull about $1000 worth of trade. I am very exited. Thanks guys



You’re welcome! I’m glad knowing it’s going to a home where it will be enjoyed 

I wouldn’t be surprised if I bought a Milo again someday. It’s really the perfect solid state sound to my ear. I’ll be back!


----------



## musicman59

I am going to be putting my Milo in the for sale forum in the next few days. It has several upgrades: Khozmo attenuator, Vishay “Naked Z Foil” resistors, Bybee in the AC line, Furutech Gold IEC and Furutech fuses putting it close to the Reference Level.

If somebody is interested please PM me.


----------



## Roasty

Favourite Rectifier? 

I have the following. 

Sophia Electric 274b
Brimar 5Z4G
RCA 5U4G
Emission Labs 5U4G

I quite like the Sophia and the RCA. The Brimar is very smooth up top but maybe a little boring that way.


----------



## heliosphann

Roasty said:


> Favourite Rectifier?
> 
> I have the following.
> 
> ...



Wrong thread?


----------



## Roasty

heliosphann said:


> Wrong thread?


Oh hahaha u r right.. Wrong thread..


----------



## Hansotek

Strayngs said:


> I have been salivating over this amp since I first discovered it. I have a Kennerton Thridi which I have learned loves power even though being fairly efficient. I watched a review on the Milo where the reviewer spent a lot of time with and rated highly the Kennerton Thror with the Milo. The Thror has the same drivers as the Thridi which gave me the confidence to take the plunge. I bought the Milo from Gibson59 (thanks man). I am so excited to have a amp with this much power. I have a extremely nice tube amp which I will likely put up for trade for some more difficult to drive headphones that I have never had the correct power for! I have some very efficient headphones which might not play so well. If you guys were recommending a headphone in the $1000 range for the Milo, which would it be? I think my ampsandsound amp should pull about $1000 worth of trade. I am very exited. Thanks guys



Some hard-to-drive pairings with the Milo:

Hifiman HE-6
Hifiman HE-1000
Hifiman HE500
ZMF Ori
ZMF Auteur 
Audeze LCD-2
Audeze LCD-4
AKG K701
Final D8000
Sennheiser HD600/650
EnigmAcoustics Dharma 
AKG Sextet
Any Fostex T50RP mod


----------



## musicman59

From that list I own the HE1000, D8000 and HD600. The Milo power them with ease and sound very musical.


----------



## mwhals

musicman59 said:


> From that list I own the HE1000, D8000 and HD600. The Milo power them with ease and sound very musical.



I have the ZMF Ori and ZMF Auteur from that list and likewise, the Milo powers them easily.


----------



## Strayngs

Thanks guys... exactly what I was looking for!


----------



## Strayngs

Hansotek said:


> Some hard-to-drive pairings with the Milo:
> 
> Hifiman HE-6
> Hifiman HE-1000
> ...



With help of feedback I have a LCD 4 on the way! Thanks guys


----------



## ufospls2

Strayngs said:


> With help of feedback I have a LCD 4 on the way! Thanks guys



That will be a great pairing, I used to have it myself.


----------



## Strayngs

Bad timing (or is it?) my DAC took a dump this week. I am going to buy one in the next two weeks. The price will be $2500 or less. Obviously synergy with the Milo is the key. Any thoughts on which ones to check out? The RMAF is in less than 2 weeks and so I’d like to have an idea of where to focus my attention when I am there. This will be my birthday present to myself as I’ll be at the RMAF for the first time the day after my birthday!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Strayngs said:


> Bad timing (or is it?) my DAC took a dump this week. I am going to buy one in the next two weeks. The price will be $2500 or less. Obviously synergy with the Milo is the key. Any thoughts on which ones to check out? The RMAF is in less than 2 weeks and so I’d like to have an idea of where to focus my attention when I am there. This will be my birthday present to myself as I’ll be at the RMAF for the first time the day after my birthday!



Happy birthday! 

I really like the Synnergy between Milo and Mytek Brooklyn DAC+


----------



## mhpsd

I think the older Lampizator L4G4 is an amazing combination. I’m sure their newer models are great too, just out of my price range.


----------



## jamesng45678 (Aug 30, 2019)

Dobrescu George said:


> Happy birthday!
> 
> I really like the Synnergy between Milo and Mytek Brooklyn DAC+



I agree! This synergy sounds great especially with the Mytek Brooklyn Dac + with the Sbooster power supply. Both my Hd800 and Lcd 3 sounds great with the Milo


----------



## Strayngs

I really appreciate the feedback. The Brooklyn is absolutely on my short list. Has anyone tried any PS Audio DACs on this?


----------



## musicman59

Selling my Milo with upgrades almost to Reference level.
Here is the link if somebody is interested.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wel...grades-almost-to-reference-level-mint.915173/


----------



## Dobrescu George

My review on the Wells Milo Amplifier is live now  

This one is a kicker, combines the advantages from both solid state and tube AMPs! 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2019/09/music-at-its-finest-wells-milo.html


----------



## jamesng45678

I am interested to know what is the difference in sound quality between wells audio milo and V281. I owned the milo amplifier and wonder if it is worth to get a V281 amplifier as well. Do anyone heard them both before?


----------



## tholt

jamesng45678 said:


> I am interested to know what is the difference in sound quality between wells audio milo and V281. I owned the milo amplifier and wonder if it is worth to get a V281 amplifier as well. Do anyone heard them both before?



I owned both. From memory, they're more similar than different. I paired them with Abyss 1266 Phi. Both had enough power to drive them satisfactorily, though I believe the Milo sounded a tad more powerful and in control. Both amps sounded on the warm side to me.


----------



## jamesng45678

tholt said:


> I owned both. From memory, they're more similar than different. I paired them with Abyss 1266 Phi. Both had enough power to drive them satisfactorily, though I believe the Milo sounded a tad more powerful and in control. Both amps sounded on the warm side to me.



Does this mean the V281 is a side grade over the Wells audio Milo?


----------



## tholt

jamesng45678 said:


> Does this mean the V281 is a side grade over the Wells audio Milo?



More of a side grade than an upgrade IMO


----------



## mhpsd

tholt said:


> More of a side grade than an upgrade IMO



Agreed.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS (Dec 2, 2019)

So, I purchased the Milo from a fellow headfier in here. I’m working on getting the Chord Qutest to pair with it. And I’m having a hard time deciding on headphones. The Susvara vs Ab-1266 TC. Help, lol.


----------



## Gibson59

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> So, I purchased the Milo from a fellow headfier in here. I’m working on getting the Chord Cutest to pair with it. And I’m having a hard time deciding on headphones. The Susvara vs Ab-1266 TC. Help, lol.



I used the Milo/Qutest combo with my HEKse for a long time and it was end-game territory for me. I only moved on from Milo because I wanted to delve into the world of tubes. If I ever end up going back to solid state amps it would be hard not to go right back to a Milo.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Gibson59 said:


> I used the Milo/Qutest combo with my HEKse for a long time and it was end-game territory for me. I only moved on from Milo because I wanted to delve into the world of tubes. If I ever end up going back to solid state amps it would be hard not to go right back to a Milo.


I just need some impressions from people in regards to those two headphones I mentioned. I gathered enough about the He1000se already. A few people including the “original” owner of this amp had that setup too.


----------



## Dobrescu George

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> So, I purchased the Milo from a fellow headfier in here. I’m working on getting the Chord Qutest to pair with it. And I’m having a hard time deciding on headphones. The Susvara vs Ab-1266 TC. Help, lol.



You have quite the combo with the source already, I think that both headphone options are good, but Susvara looks a bit more comfy, and if you're going for long hours of listening, maybe you should take that into account.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Dobrescu George said:


> You have quite the combo with the source already, I think that both headphone options are good, but Susvara looks a bit more comfy, and if you're going for long hours of listening, maybe you should take that into account.


I love the Susvara. I just need to hear the Abyss. I know comfort is a little hard to get right the first time.


----------



## Mr.X Ran

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for the great early impressions and pics. And for mentioning the Schiit MJ2. Was considering the MJ2 but think I'll cross it off my list (prefer something with more impact).
> 
> Sounds like the Milo lives up to the hype.
> 
> Sad to hear about your Abyss though (on the same day you finally got your Milo; must feel like winning and losing at the same time).



Friend I just would like to confirm that the volume from single ended output is same as balanced output?


----------



## Mr.X Ran

rigo said:


> No it is not. It costs more to have the XLR inputs but they are there for convenience.
> 
> ALREADY ANSWERED


Hey there I just would like to confirm that the volume from single ended output is same as balanced output?


----------



## musicman59

Yes, the amp is a single ended design.
The balance inputs (optional) and output are just for convenience. They are wired in parallel to the single ended inputs and outputs so there is no difference between them singla wise.


----------



## Mr.X Ran

musicman59 said:


> I probably will be selling my Milo with the Khozmo, Vishjays , Bybees and Furutech fuses and my Qutest in the near future.
> If you are interested let me know.


Dear friend:

I was wondering what is the sonic difference that the Bybees and Furutech fuses make? Could you kindly tell me where could I get them?


----------



## musicman59

They clean the AC more therefore lower the floor noise giving you a cleaner more detailed and dynamic presentation.

You can google it but one place is this
https://www.partsconnexion.com/bybee-quantum-purifiers.html

If you already have a Wells Audio amplifier the best is to send it Jeff for the upgrades.


----------



## Mr.X Ran

It is just that I’m concerned he will charge a lot of labor fee. I guess I can change at least the fuse myself.


----------



## tholt

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> So, I purchased the Milo from a fellow headfier in here. I’m working on getting the Chord Qutest to pair with it. And I’m having a hard time deciding on headphones. The Susvara vs Ab-1266 TC. Help, lol.



What do you want to know about the Abyss? I used the Phi CC with an upgraded Milo for a short time. It sounded fine, not endgame IMO but good enough. The Milo has no shortage of power. 

You should check over on the Abyss thread, I'm sure others have had the Milo there.


----------



## musicman59

Mr.X Ran said:


> It is just that I’m concerned he will charge a lot of labor fee. I guess I can change at least the fuse myself.


Yes, changing the fuses should not be a problem.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a new video about Milo, this time with rabbits


----------



## Astral Abyss

I think I can speak for us all when I ask, "Do your rabbits approve of the Milo?"  They can be quite hard to please.  Thank you for the video.


----------



## Cannibalia

Stock Milo driving LCD-2 I can’t get the volume past 9 before eardrums start to burst.  Works for me, but the other 3/4 of the volume knob is.... scary?


----------



## geoffalter11

Cannibalia said:


> Stock Milo driving LCD-2 I can’t get the volume past 9 before eardrums start to burst.  Works for me, but the other 3/4 of the volume knob is.... scary?


did you get the upgraded attenuator?  I found it to be the only way I could ever get past 10.


----------



## Cannibalia

Thanks for this, I bought the unit here, I believe it’s completely stock.


----------



## KenMan85

Bought mine, upgrade from a jotunheim multibit   To a d90 with a milo upgraded.  W/ hifiman Arya


----------



## The Piper

KenMan85 said:


> Bought mine, upgrade from a jotunheim multibit   To a d90 with a milo upgraded.  W/ hifiman Arya


Congratulations Ken. How are you enjoying the Milo so far?


----------



## ufospls2

KenMan85 said:


> Bought mine, upgrade from a jotunheim multibit   To a d90 with a milo upgraded.  W/ hifiman Arya



Sweet! How is it with the Arya?


----------



## KenMan85

4


ufospls2 said:


> Sweet! How is it with the Arya?


I've heard it's a dream pairing, waiting for payment to clear


----------



## KenMan85

So the milo I purchased died when tested before being shipped. 

If anyone in the forum chooses to sell theirs at some point, gimme a shout. 
Prefer xlr and some upgrades over stock.  Thanks all
(yes I did make a wtb on the for sale)


----------



## KenMan85

What volume do you guys listen at with the kozmo?  Curious if this amp is on the quiet side as far as volume goes, or loud?


----------



## johnzz4

KenMan85 said:


> What volume do you guys listen at with the kozmo?  Curious if this amp is on the quiet side as far as volume goes, or loud?


There are a couple different versions of the Khozmo attenuator that Jeff uses.  There was one that had a more gradual ramp and one that was more aggressive.  Either way, there is a lot of gain on the Milo, so it generally gets loud quickly.


----------



## Asteron70

Hmm, i feel like the attenuator adds a bit of nuance/flexibility. I crank up anywhere from 11oclock to noon to power by Abyss Phi.
I'd imagine it would be closer to 9oclock without the attenuator, which presumably drops even further for more sensitive cans.
The stepped volume dial from the attenuator upgrade is also a pleasure to use.


----------



## tommir

Hi,

A question to folks who owned both Milo and Headtrip. Is Headtrip much more powerful? In most cases Milo drives my 1266 OG very well but sometimes it could be louder (recordigns with poor dynamics), especially when I listen to the metal music.


----------



## ufospls2

Yes, the Headtrip is more powerful, but it does have the same DB of gain the Milo has. Your best bet is email Jeff Wells and explain the situation. I would have thought the Milo, if it has the stock gain of 30db and not the attenuated version, would be powerful enough.


----------



## tommir

ufospls2 said:


> Yes, the Headtrip is more powerful, but it does have the same DB of gain the Milo has. Your best bet is email Jeff Wells and explain the situation. I would have thought the Milo, if it has the stock gain of 30db and not the attenuated version, would be powerful enough.


Good point, thanks.


----------



## tommir

Hi,

didn't get any answer from Wells Audio but got one from Arek Kallas, Khozmo's manufacturer. I was told I need to replace 2 vishaz resistors, from 47K to e.g. 10K.
Just ordered them.


----------



## Bonddam

I’ll be joining in the fun soon. Ordered a reference Milo. Jeff just finished building it so I took it at a discount. If I love it and it gives me great SQ on my 1266 tc then I might move on to the HT. Should have it next week.


----------



## tommir

tommir said:


> Hi,
> 
> didn't get any answer from Wells Audio but got one from Arek Kallas, Khozmo's manufacturer. I was told I need to replace 2 vishaz resistors, from 47K to e.g. 10K.
> Just ordered them.


Forgot to write about replacement. Everything went ok and I can drive speakers.now


----------



## Astral Abyss

I've had the pleasure of listening to the Abyss 1266 tc on the standard Milo.  You will not be disappointed!  It drives them wonderfully.


----------



## Bonddam

As long as it is comparable to the quality of WA33 then I’ll be happy. It’s more powerful then the Woo.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Bonddam said:


> As long as it is comparable to the quality of WA33 then I’ll be happy. It’s more powerful then the Woo.


Just be sure to give it time to warm up before passing judgement.  It's not your standard SS.


----------



## dfarina

Astral Abyss said:


> Just be sure to give it time to warm up before passing judgement.  It's not your standard SS.


Aaaaa YES,I took delivery of my Milo a few days ago.It was sitting in the back of a delivery truck with temperatures hovering around freezing.I gave it a half an hour to warm up before listening,wasnt overly thrilled with what I was hearing(not bad,just not what I had hoped for).Went to bed and let it sit powered on overnight,the next day it sounded MUCH better,pheeew,money not wasted!! I'm still tinkering around with my rig,probably a couople weeks away from getting it all buttoned up,but its sounding better every day.Purchased it used from here with low hours,so most of the burn-in time was probably in place.I will be leaving it on 24/7,Jeff said that would be perfectly fine.


----------



## ufospls2

Milo. and I'm assuming the reference are a very good match with the TC's (and any abyss.) Hope you enjoy it


----------



## Bonddam

I can’t think of a different sound then the WA33. I wanted to add a high powered ss to my mix.


----------



## wormsdriver

Hey guys, I bought a used Milo (standard, no upgrades) and I'm wondering if the high noise floor is common with sensitive cans? I mainly hear this on my Fostex th900. It is very noticeable without music playing, once I play music you can't really hear it.
Thanks for your input in advance.


----------



## Astral Abyss

wormsdriver said:


> Hey guys, I bought a used Milo (standard, no upgrades) and I'm wondering if the high noise floor is common with sensitive cans? I mainly hear this on my Fostex th900. It is very noticeable without music playing, once I play music you can't really hear it.
> Thanks for your input in advance.


Yeah, that's normal.  It has 30db gain stock.  Works great with lower sensitivity cans like my Abyss Diana and HE-6.


----------



## ufospls2

wormsdriver said:


> Hey guys, I bought a used Milo (standard, no upgrades) and I'm wondering if the high noise floor is common with sensitive cans? I mainly hear this on my Fostex th900. It is very noticeable without music playing, once I play music you can't really hear it.
> Thanks for your input in advance.



Very normal. It has 30db gain stock, which is high for a headphone amp. Works a treat with Abyss, HE6, Susvara etc...but you might run into some noise with sensitive cans. IF you mainly use sensitive cans, you could send it to Jeff Wells and get him to lower the gain by 12db.


----------



## Strayngs

You could also use a preamp with it. That is what I did when I had the Milo.


----------



## wormsdriver

Thank you for your input guys, good to know it's normal.


----------



## tommir

I bought upraded version and the nosie with th900 was on really low level but there was sometimes nit enough power to drive Abyss...  so I had to replace resistors on Khozmo, Abbys are very well driven but the level of nosie with sensitive cans is higher.


----------



## tommir

Except for this nosie this is a great combination th900 with Miło.


----------



## wormsdriver

Thank you for this info @tommir I really appreciate it!
I will save some cash and keep the Milo as is and not upgrade to the khozmo as I can definitely live with it as is.


----------



## Bonddam (Nov 24, 2020)

Just got the Milo Reference hooked up playing off my holo audio spring 2 kte and it sounds amazing testing the HEDD which is low sensitivity at 87. Can’t believe this has so much power and weights nothing. I like the blacked out plexi see some of the wires and components.


----------



## Bonddam

My Milo the hiss is hard to hear if any maybe the references improves with the different components used.


----------



## Bonddam

The Milo does it for me powering my 1266 TC like a champ. The WA33 was boring with my edm. I got rid of the Woo. I'll say PRAT, speed kinda warm powerful bass clean and does it in a small package.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Bonddam said:


> My Milo the hiss is hard to hear if any maybe the references improves with the different components used.


Yeah you shouldn't hear any hiss on the Abyss.  My Diana is perfectly silent too.  It's only the very sensitive cans.  The Milo is a bit too powerful for them.


----------



## Bonddam

Astral Abyss said:


> Yeah you shouldn't hear any hiss on the Abyss.  My Diana is perfectly silent too.  It's only the very sensitive cans.  The Milo is a bit too powerful for them.


No I don't hear hiss on any headphone. Like the Empyrean or Thekk.


----------



## wormsdriver

I think it's more on dynamic drivers


----------



## Bonddam

I'll try my VC. only thing i can hear is a quit hum so lo that I need to focus really hard and still have a hard time. Maybe Jeff was wrong and there is attenuator which I did ask about when buying he told me not to. My concern was getting use out of the volume knob I get to 10 11 and it's loud on my higher sensitive cans 12, 1, 2 on the 1266 and HEDD


----------



## wormsdriver

Yeah, it shouldn't be a problem with zmf cans. Hum is not really a problem on my 300 ohm hd800 either


----------



## mwhals

wormsdriver said:


> Yeah, it shouldn't be a problem with zmf cans. Hum is not really a problem on my 300 ohm hd800 either



My ZMF headphones are quiet on Milo. No hum or anything other than beautiful music.


----------



## tommir

Yes, Milo is dead quiet withe VC. When there is no music of course


----------



## spw1880

Hi,

I just put money down a new stock milo from a headphone store for my verite opens,  i didnt get the khozmo and vishays. Since the store was a hour flight away and we are still in stay-home-if you-can status i did not go to audition. Funny enough the store owner insisted i buy the non khozmo vishay one as it will be more forgiving towards the music i like which is edm pop and rap, he had both versions in store..after reading a number of posts from happy milo owners, should i be worried about volume play being too narrow?

Thanks


----------



## jamesng45678

Bonddam said:


> My Milo the hiss is hard to hear if any maybe the references improves with the different components used.


You could try using the milo with a power conditioner such as the one i am using Plixir Elite. There is totally zero hiss and background noise. Highly Recommended👍


----------



## jamesng45678

spw1880 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just put money down a new stock milo from a headphone store for my verite opens,  i didnt get the khozmo and vishays. Since the store was a hour flight away and we are still in stay-home-if you-can status i did not go to audition. Funny enough the store owner insisted i buy the non khozmo vishay one as it will be more forgiving towards the music i like which is edm pop and rap, he had both versions in store..after reading a number of posts from happy milo owners, should i be worried about volume play being too narrow?
> 
> Thanks


Do not plug your milo directly into the dac or streamer. You could use a pre-amplifier in between your dac and milo and that could improve the sound significantly as well as control the volume of your milo. Hope that helps🙂


----------



## wormsdriver

jamesng45678 said:


> You could try using the milo with a power conditioner such as the one i am using Plixir Elite. There is totally zero hiss and background noise. Highly Recommended👍


Even with more sensitive cans?


----------



## jamesng45678

wormsdriver said:


> Even with more sensitive cans?


I use my HD800, HD800s, audeze LCD 3 and Aeon flow. There is zero background noise or hiss. The sound is mainly from noisy power supply or ground loop issue. The easiest way to solve it is to ground all the audio components together and connect together.


----------



## tommir

jamesng45678 said:


> pre-amplifier


Can you suggest some specific model of  pre-amplifier?


----------



## jamesng45678

tommir said:


> Can you suggest some specific model of  pre-amplifier?


Ohh i use the Violectric V281 as a pre-amplifier. The V281 is both a good headphone amplifier and pre-amplifier. I use balance xlr into my V281 from the dac and rca out to the wells audio milo.


----------



## Bonddam

jamesng45678 said:


> You could try using the milo with a power conditioner such as the one i am using Plixir Elite. There is totally zero hiss and background noise. Highly Recommended👍


I don’t have hiss. Transformer hum with anything but 1266 Susvara and HE 6. My amp is dead quite with my hard to drive headphones. The Milo Reference is quite with everything.


----------



## jlbrach

jamesng45678 said:


> Ohh i use the Violectric V281 as a pre-amplifier. The V281 is both a good headphone amplifier and pre-amplifier. I use balance xlr into my V281 from the dac and rca out to the wells audio milo.


you use the 281 which is as good an amp as the milo as a pre-amp for the milo?


----------



## jamesng45678 (Jan 14, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> you use the 281 which is as good an amp as the milo as a pre-amp for the milo?


Yes I use the V281 as a pre-amplifier for the milo. The V281 can be both a headphone amplifier and a pre-amplifier at the same time. The milo sound would open up a lot with the addition of a pre-amplifier. Hope that answers your question


----------



## jlbrach

seems more than a bit superfluous to me but whatever


----------



## Bonddam

This DAC is good it’s limited with inputs and outputs as base model. Takes a minute to warm up before it plays music because of the tubes. I can’t give any sound characteristics but it does sound really good. So it’s used with HeadTrip 2 and Reference Milo. Dose not have any indication of sample rate which sucks but it minimal looks are pleasing. Excuse the bad pic looks like I took a stick of butter rubbed it all over the front.


----------



## Roasty (Jan 19, 2021)

Just received this today. It belonged to Bonddam until not long ago. Jeff at Wells Audio converted it to 230v and added XLR inputs for me.

This thing has so much power to spare. Drives Susvara with ease. Volume knob is maybe around 11 to 12 o'clock and it is already plenty loud. Very clean black background too. No hum/hiss with my sensitive cans ie Utopia /Stellia.

Very glad I took the plunge. Wanted a small-ish form factor SS amp. From what I can, recall this is a definite improvement over the gsx-mini (which I sold and considered buying again). Jeff did give me a good price for a Headtrip II but I just didn't have the space for it.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> Just received this today. It belonged to Bonddam until not long ago. Jeff at Wells Audio converted it to 230v and added XLR inputs for me.
> 
> This thing has so much power to spare. Drives Susvara with ease. Volume knob is maybe around 11 to 12 o'clock and it is already plenty loud. Very clean black background too. No hum/hiss with my sensitive cans ie Utopia /Stellia.
> 
> Very glad I took the plunge. Wanted a small-ish form factor SS amp. From what I can, recall this is a definite improvement over the gsx-mini (which I sold and considered buying again). Jeff did give me a good price for a Headtrip II but I just didn't have the space for it.


Lovely amp!
Wonder when you start the speaker amp route


----------



## Roasty

ThanatosVI said:


> Lovely amp!
> Wonder when you start the speaker amp route



An Apollon 1et400a purifi amp is en route to me now. I should have it by next week, I hope.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> An Apollon 1et400a purifi amp is en route to me now. I should have it by next week, I hope.


That didn't take long


----------



## Bonddam

So I’m basically a Wells Audio fan boy. 3 units total. How quite is the base Milo? There should be more noise on the internet as it puts out more then the competition, takes up less space, and weighs nothing. My reason for Reference Milo is it’s power and no noise. The HeadTrip I’m afraid to use normal headphones on could melt a coil with all that extra wattage.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Bonddam said:


> So I’m basically a Wells Audio fan boy. 3 units total. How quite is the base Milo? There should be more noise on the internet as it puts out more then the competition, takes up less space, and weighs nothing. My reason for Reference Milo is it’s power and no noise. The HeadTrip I’m afraid to use normal headphones on could melt a coil with all that extra wattage.


If I ever go back to Solid State headphone amps, the Milo is on the top of the list


----------



## The Piper

ThanatosVI said:


> If I ever go back to Solid State headphone amps, the Milo is on the top of the list


Just so you know I am very close to production on a tube headphone amp that will also have a Level II version. The base model will be $1900.00 and the Level II version will sell for $3750.00.


----------



## The Piper

P.S.-it will have 4 different gain setting controlled by top mounted dip switches and should drive any headphones on the market.


----------



## ThanatosVI

The Piper said:


> Just so you know I am very close to production on a tube headphone amp that will also have a Level II version. The base model will be $1900.00 and the Level II version will sell for $3750.00.


Where can I sign up for a Newsletter/more info down the road?


----------



## TheMiddleSky

The Piper said:


> Just so you know I am very close to production on a tube headphone amp that will also have a Level II version. The base model will be $1900.00 and the Level II version will sell for $3750.00.



definitely on my watch list!


----------



## The Piper

ThanatosVI said:


> Where can I sign up for a Newsletter/more info down the road?


Newsletter is a great idea but I just don’t currently have the time to produce one right now. I usually make announcements on Facebook and website right now. I really need to be more proactive but just have trouble finding the time.


----------



## Bonddam

The Piper said:


> Newsletter is a great idea but I just don’t currently have the time to produce one right now. I usually make announcements on Facebook and website right now. I really need to be more proactive but just have trouble finding the time.


When are the pictures coming on your website?


----------



## The Piper

Bonddam said:


> When are the pictures coming on your website?


Probably a couple of weeks as I must receive the chassis before I can build an example to send for professional photos to be taken.


----------



## Bonddam

Rebought the Reference Milo for my sensitive cans. Had it traded it in for full refund and got the HeadTrip. Biggest concern is from having too much wattage which turns into heat at the coil. It would be nice for headphone manufacturers to label the rms wattage of their headphones. I’ve melted tweeter coils in the past with too much headroom. Jeff went extra by adding shielding to the noisy components of the amp which I never asked for. If this made the Milo more quiet I don’t know. The other Milo remember being black. Only thing that affects his amps are routers. I had to move my two routers about 15 ft away. Yes I need to bridge isp’s router but I’m lazy. Anyways next I’m gonna sell my beloved WA33 for Wells tube amp.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Bonddam said:


> Rebought the Reference Milo for my sensitive cans. Had it traded it in for full refund and got the HeadTrip. Biggest concern is from having too much wattage which turns into heat at the coil. It would be nice for headphone manufacturers to label the rms wattage of their headphones. I’ve melted tweeter coils in the past with too much headroom. Jeff went extra by adding shielding to the noisy components of the amp which I never asked for. If this made the Milo more quiet I don’t know. The other Milo remember being black. Only thing that affects his amps are routers. I had to move my two routers about 15 ft away. Yes I need to bridge isp’s router but I’m lazy. Anyways next I’m gonna sell my beloved WA33 for Wells tube amp.


Keep us updated 
Interested to see how the tube amp compares to the Wa33


----------



## Bonddam

Milo and Solitaire P good combo.


----------



## The Piper

Bonddam said:


> When are the pictures coming on your website?


I just picked up the chassis parts and cobbled together a chassis. Needs silkscreening so this is not the finished product. Picture of top shows dip switches for 4 gain settings, multiple ground paths and switches for tube changes. The toggle switch is for changing tubes from 12bh7s to 6 dj8s. I am tentatively thinking of 3 levels of performance and it will be upgradeable from entry level to level III for the difference in retail prices. Right now I think prices will be $1500.00, $2500.00 and $4000.00.


----------



## ufospls2

The Piper said:


> I just picked up the chassis parts and cobbled together a chassis. Needs silkscreening so this is not the finished product. Picture of top shows dip switches for 4 gain settings, multiple ground paths and switches for tube changes. The toggle switch is for changing tubes from 12bh7s to 6 dj8s. I am tentatively thinking of 3 levels of performance and it will be upgradeable from entry level to level III for the difference in retail prices. Right now I think prices will be $1500.00, $2500.00 and $4000.00.



Can't wait for this one jeff. $1500 is super attractive. For someone who doesn't know much about tubes (me) what is the reason for the tube choices, vs what one normally see's in 2a3 300b etc...? Price?


----------



## The Piper

ufospls2 said:


> Can't wait for this one jeff. $1500 is super attractive. For someone who doesn't know much about tubes (me) what is the reason for the tube choices, vs what one normally see's in 2a3 300b etc...? Price?


This is a hybrid type design. It has tube gain as well as a solid state secondary stage. The reasons for this are price as well as the as second stage can provide additional gain as well as additional current to drive difficult loads such as many planar designs. It allows for 4 switchable gain settings and should be able to accommodate the most efficient to the least efficient loads. It is the most detailed and cleanest tube amp I have ever heard yet beautiful in tone and very 3D. $1500.00 for a tube headphone amp that is hand built in the US and state-of-the-art sounding is remarkable. Additionally it is factory upgradeable from entry level to ultimate performance level. This will be very special.


----------



## ufospls2

The Piper said:


> This is a hybrid type design. It has tube gain as well as a solid state secondary stage. The reasons for this are price as well as the as second stage can provide additional gain as well as additional current to drive difficult loads such as many planar designs. It allows for 4 switchable gain settings and should be able to accommodate the most efficient to the least efficient loads. It is the most detailed and cleanest tube amp I have ever heard yet beautiful in tone and very 3D. $1500.00 for a tube headphone amp that is hand built in the US and state-of-the-art sounding is remarkable. Additionally it is factory upgradeable from entry level to ultimate performance level. This will be very special.



Great explanation, thank you. What are the power output numbers, and gain settings in db?


----------



## Bonddam

How does the gain stage switches work? Your design shows so many. I ask as I’m only use to seeing one per side. I feel confused looking at all the switches. Nice looking amp by the way.


----------



## The Piper

Bonddam said:


> How does the gain stage switches work? Your design shows so many. I ask as I’m only use to seeing one per side. I feel confused looking at all the switches. Nice looking amp by the way.


There are 4 different gain switches per channel. Each gain setting is represented by it"s own switch per each channel. The switch to the far left on each channel is the lowest setting. The switch next to it on the right is the next setting up, and so forth. This will allow the user to find the most comfortable setting for their individual headphone needs. Other switches on the top deck are for ground settings and for switching tubes from 12bh7 to 6DJ8s. The big toggle is for the tube switching also as one is a 12volt tube and the other a 6 volt tube type. The finished product will be even nicer looking as I have a few ideas to dress it up.


----------



## walker.777

For people who is curious about how does Milo Reference stack up against HeadTrip II Jeff gave a bit of his thoughts on facebook : "The gap between the two is significant. Due to cost considerations in parts choices the sonic profiles differ. The Milo is a bit warmer, richer and sweeter sounding with a bit of bloom. The Headtrip II is very neutral and open sounding with an impossibly low noise floor. They are both very detailed but the Headtrip II even more so due to it’s lower noise floor. Both models lack nearly any electronic artifacts such as edge, etchiness, dryness, grain, harshness or lack of tonality."


----------



## Bonddam

The closer I pay attention to the Cipher vs TT2 I can clearly hear the improvements in the smaller items. I only like the TT2 for it's crazy bass boost the treble sucks its sounds choppy Cipher is a clean line.


----------



## Bonddam (Feb 26, 2021)

The 1266 TC sounds really good on Milo Reference..


----------



## Bonddam

Im thinking of selling the Reference Milo. I aqquired first dibs on the Dragon lvl3. So Jeff is building two one for him one for me. I would keep it if I had the money to buy fund the Dragon out of pocket. The tough part was trying to choose which of the two Wells would have to go.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Bonddam said:


> Im thinking of selling the Reference Milo. I aqquired first dibs on the Dragon lvl3. So Jeff is building two one for him one for me. I would keep it if I had the money to buy fund the Dragon out of pocket. The tough part was trying to choose which of the two Wells would have to go.


Can you give us some Details on the dragon?
Googing it doesn't Show much of value


----------



## Bonddam

The Dragon isn't finished yet. Jeff is working with his guy. Original Dragon wasn't powerful enough for 1266 so he got his designer to pump up the current out of each channel. He also needs it to have low noise floor when using Utopia. The hybrid is using the tubes for voltage creating a tube sound that is not sluggish but fast. The solid state will produce the power and current needed for hard to drive headphones. Good example of using current is T+A HA-200 amp that uses 700mA and powers my 1266 TC very good the output wattage is 1.5 watts so not much. It's all about current with planars.


----------



## OceanRanger

I had a chance to listen to a Dragon Level I yesterday. Quite simply it is amazing. As @Bonddam describes, it is fast, has a tube sound and wonderful detail. I am hoping to get the 3rd Dragon LIII. This amp definitely deserves its own thread....


----------



## Roasty

OceanRanger said:


> I had a chance to listen to a Dragon Level I yesterday. Quite simply it is amazing. As @Bonddam describes, it is fast, has a tube sound and wonderful detail. I am hoping to get the 3rd Dragon LIII. This amp definitely deserves its own thread....



Nice! What headphones did you use it with?


----------



## OceanRanger

1266 TCs, the combination of power and current was definitely enough for these headphones.


----------



## Roasty

OceanRanger said:


> 1266 TCs, the combination of power and current was definitely enough for these headphones.



Coming from someone who has a headtrip! That says a lot!


----------



## OceanRanger

I believe that powering the 1266 and the Susvara is one of Jeff's design criteria for the Dragon.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm trying to sell my HeadTrip so I can afford the Dragon. Also get rid of the Reference Milo. I want my amps to be Dragon level 3 connected to Cipher DAC. Then my Woo WA33 Elite connected to Holo May. Last is my T+A HA-200 all in one as my everyday amp.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Bonddam said:


> I'm trying to sell my HeadTrip so I can afford the Dragon. Also get rid of the Reference Milo. I want my amps to be Dragon level 3 connected to Cipher DAC. Then my Woo WA33 Elite connected to Holo May. Last is my T+A HA-200 all in one as my everyday amp.


That is an unexpected turn of Events.
From wanting to sell the Ha200 to making it the everyday amp


----------



## Bonddam

I didn't give enough credit to HA-200. My views changed quickly and it controls the 1266. The bass control is a major like. I set it to +4 and loving it.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm on the fence in giving up the Milo and HeadTrip. The HeadTrip just does things to the sound that no other solid state does. The Milo is the warm sound little more oomph.


----------



## OceanRanger

Yep, that is a tough call. I do understand replacing the Milo with the Dragon. Though if memory serves, you replaced your first Milo Reference after selling it. It appears that the Milo Reference has a special spot in your lineup. The Headtrip is a different beast. So many wonderful choices.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm serial number one Dragon. It's built but Jeff won't let me have it yet. QC time two weeks.


----------



## musicman59

Jeff called me to let me know about the new Dragon. Can’t wait to see pictures and hear about its sound.
I have an Enigma with upgrades that in my opinion sounds in between the Milo and the Headtrip. I love it.


----------



## OceanRanger

That is awesome. Congrats! I'm looking forward to you thoughts on the Dragon relative to your other amps.


----------



## OceanRanger

I'm hoping to pick up a Cipher and also listen to the LIII next week.


----------



## The Piper

OceanRanger said:


> I'm hoping to pick up a Cipher and also listen to the LIII next week.


Looking forward to visit from OceanRanger on Sunday to pick up new Cipher Level II. I have had the newly engineered Dragon Level III breaking in for about 5 days by then. Maybe he can give an unvarnished assessment of what he is hearing at this point of it’s long break in.


----------



## OceanRanger (Mar 15, 2021)

I enjoyed a COVID-safe visit to Wells Audio today. I was super excited to have a chance to pick up my Cipher Level II. I'll post a review after I have a chance to marinate in it for a bit of time. While there I spent a few moments with his first production-ready Dragon Level III hybrid amp. I listened to Temptation, by Diana Krall. Laptop -> Cipher Level II -> Dragon Level III -> Abyss 1266 TCs. Natural, spacious and great detail are the words that I'd use to describe my initial impression. I thought that it sounded wonderful and Jeff said that the amp will continue to open up over the next several weeks. I'm going to stop by at the end of the month, after it has a few hundred more hours on it, to give it another listen. I hope to spend more time with it then.


----------



## OceanRanger

OceanRanger said:


> I enjoyed a COVID-safe visit to Wells Audio today. I was super excited to have a chance to pick up my Cipher Level II. I'll post a review after I have a chance to marinate in it for a bit of time. While there I spent a few moments with his first production-ready Dragon Level III hybrid amp. I listened to Temptation, by Diana Krall. Laptop -> Cipher Level II -> Dragon Level III -> Abyss 1266 TCs. Natural, spacious and great detail are the words that I'd use to describe my initial impression. I thought that it sounded wonderful and Jeff said that the amp will continue to open up over the next several weeks. I'm going to stop by at the end of the month, after it has a few hundred more hours on it, to give it another listen. I hope to spend more time with it then.


As promised here is a link to my review of the Cipher Level II. This is my first review so it is relatively brief.


----------



## Bonddam

Here's a pic of Cipher lvl 1 internals. Biggest caps I've seen a DAC have. Lampizator has more and bigger tubes I'd like to hear one of those. The Cipher has better treble then my Burson dac/amp. It doesn't sound like frying pans.


----------



## Bonddam

I've had 3 DAC's using 9038 chip and Cipher comes out on top. Big comparison was against Manhattan 2. Manhattan was missing solid picture too airy like puff marshmallows.


----------



## OceanRanger

I do well with and enjoy food metaphors, thanks for incorporating "puff marshmallows" into your comment.


----------



## Arcamera

Hi All, I'm interested in this amp. Can anyone speak to the difference between the basic upgrade of the Milo vs. the Reference version? (Other than a considerable price difference). A big sonic jump? Or the classic law of diminishing returns kicking in? Something in the ballpark of $2,500 I'm interested in, but not as keen to play around $5,000. Thanks for any thoughts.


----------



## OceanRanger

Arcamera said:


> Hi All, I'm interested in this amp. Can anyone speak to the difference between the basic upgrade of the Milo vs. the Reference version? (Other than a considerable price difference). A big sonic jump? Or the classic law of diminishing returns kicking in? Something in the ballpark of $2,500 I'm interested in, but not as keen to play around $5,000. Thanks for any thoughts.


This is certainly a hobby with diminishing marginal returns. I own a couple of Well products and have been super happy with them. I think that @Bonddam has had both the Milo and the Milo Reference. I auditioned the Milo Reference and the Headtrip II. I ended up going with the Headtrip, but eventually sold it and bought a Wells Audio Dragon LIII. I am thrilled to have made this move. Jeff just released the Dragon a month or so ago. It is a hybrid SS/tube amp. There are a number of folks on the forum that have purchased Dragons. I believe that the Level I, Level II and Level III are priced at $1,500 / $2,500 / $5,500 respectively.


----------



## wormsdriver (May 26, 2021)

If anyone is interested in picking up a used Milo let me know, I will be listing mine soon for sale.

EDIT: SOLD


----------



## KenMan85

wormsdriver said:


> If anyone is interested in picking up a used Milo let me know, I will be listing mine soon for sale.


Price and model options?


----------



## wormsdriver

KenMan85 said:


> Price and model options?


Base model Milo with no upgrades, price more less around $1k shipped in the US.


----------



## Bonddam

I like the bloom of the Milo it gives the bass correctly so it doesn't sound lacking as most amps don't cover the bandwidth correctly. Good comparison is look at the internals that you pay for. I've seen some high priced preamps with nothing inside but a pcb with a few parts but Wells is stuffed with parts. 

I gave into my addiction and just told Jeff to ship me the Cipher. Jeff doesn't like romantic as much as I do so Cipher vs EVO 100. 

My two channel is all PrimaLuna and it's used for TV and music.


----------



## Arcamera

It sounds like the Abyss is a celebrated headphone with the Milo (and other Wells amps I guess). What are some other headphones that people enjoy, or find a good match with the Milo?


----------



## Bonddam

I love the Empyrean on the Milo for the bass heavy music. I only like the 1266 TC and Empyrean and I've tired just about every planar. I use to love the T+A Solitaire P but something with my head or ear shape I loose bass vibration in one side, so it's not listenable when that happens with all my music. If that bass issue didn't happen I'd have three planar headphones instead of two.


----------



## Arcamera

Milo in the house! So far, it sounds great. Loving my Empyreans with the amp. Will explore more with the LCD4, HE1000v2, and other cans later...


----------



## Bonddam

Arcamera said:


> Milo in the house! So far, it sounds great. Loving my Empyreans with the amp. Will explore more with the LCD4, HE1000v2, and other cans later...


What made you go Milo?


----------



## Arcamera

Bonddam said:


> What made you go Milo?


You know, I'm not sure. I've been looking at different solid state amps for a while to compliment my Woo WA22, and at some point the Milo suddenly seemed to be the right choice. Or one good choice. Liked what I read, and saw. And I'm partial to smaller but passionate and expert companies with an individualistic ethos or flair. 

Question: leave the amp always on, or on only when in use?


----------



## Arcamera

Actually, probably what sealed the deal for me was the Milo's vertical format-- I have limited equipment space! I dig that kind of experimentation.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Arcamera said:


> You know, I'm not sure. I've been looking at different solid state amps for a while to compliment my Woo WA22, and at some point the Milo suddenly seemed to be the right choice. Or one good choice. Liked what I read, and saw. And I'm partial to smaller but passionate and expert companies with an individualistic ethos or flair.
> 
> Question: leave the amp always on, or on only when in use?


Only when in use.


----------



## Arcamera

Another aspect of the Milo I was drawn to was its simplicity. No complicated front or back panels with features I don't really desire. Keep it clean and simple. A powerful, very good sounding headphone amp.


----------



## rmsanger

this was posted on another forum I frequent:
“Time you learned about Wells Audio Dragon. Stomps your silly mini and others in the price range. The level 1 has 1/2 amp of current and 5 watts. It’s a hybrid that use 12bh7 or 6dj8. I have level 3 and stomps WA33.
“


----------



## rmsanger (Jun 16, 2021)

Anyway love to get feedback from level 1 and 2 owners here when you get time with the unit specifically on how it pairs with 1266 phi tc susvara and HE6 se.

currently looking at Volot, niimbus us4, and vio v550 as options.  

I hope that people feel enabled to post honest feedback here because I’d like to get passed any fanboyism or Perhaps pressure from the manufacturer to post glowing reviews.


----------



## Bonddam

Wait for the Dragon to hopefully show up at SoCal.


----------



## Bonddam

I decided to put back the Milo as my 2nd amp for my office and bring it down to my main station in the basement. I will go back to Dragon later but first if the Milo is all I need then stay here and see about upgrades. I am looking for that bloom that the reference had so better be there. Dragon is actually more powerful and super black back ground no his or hum with any headphone only draw is less bass impact with the level 1 so you need to up it for that deep impact slam that sounds weighty.


----------



## Arcamera

Still really enjoying the Milo here. My source is still primarily CD's, with the very fine Rega Saturn-R, and Exposure XMCD as back-up/alternate set-up. My three main headphones: Meze Empyrean, LCD4, and HE1000SE (with some Schiit equalization). Lovely with the Milo. Of course, I think about bigger and better down the road ("Welcome to Head-Fi...") but I'm good for now. Especially with a newborn in the house.


----------



## Capunk

Quick question guys,
Which one suits Diana V2 best? Milo or GS-X Mini?


----------



## Bonddam

Capunk said:


> Quick question guys,
> Which one suits Diana V2 best? Milo or GS-X Mini?


Milo has a bass bloom which would benefit you as Diana is bit bass shy in lower octaves. So more pronounced sub bass and mid bass. Your also getting hell of lot more power on the Milo vs mini. I had the mini and Diana and wasn't happy till I found the Milo. Milo has a more tube sound which will add holographic sound scape which mini does not do. Also mini is made by a robot Justin ain't soldering little resistors and most he could are the bigger components. The components in Milo are higher grade and all down by hand. Traces on the Milo are larger allowing more current to pass to each component. Milo is a warm with top end sparkle. Mini straight solid state might as well save money and get a Flux if you don't want flavor.


----------



## Capunk

Bonddam said:


> Milo has a bass bloom which would benefit you as Diana is bit bass shy in lower octaves. So more pronounced sub bass and mid bass. Your also getting hell of lot more power on the Milo vs mini. I had the mini and Diana and wasn't happy till I found the Milo. Milo has a more tube sound which will add holographic sound scape which mini does not do. Also mini is made by a robot Justin ain't soldering little resistors and most he could are the bigger components. The components in Milo are higher grade and all down by hand. Traces on the Milo are larger allowing more current to pass to each component. Milo is a warm with top end sparkle. Mini straight solid state might as well save money and get a Flux if you don't want flavor.



Cheers, I've tried Milo by myself and intrigued by it - now it's on my desk


----------



## geoffalter11

Capunk said:


> Cheers, I've tried Milo by myself and intrigued by it - now it's on my desk


The Milo was my first serious headphone amp.  I kept it for about 18 months and then ended up letting it go.  I missed it hopelessly for about a year or so until I bought a Pathos Aurium, which I liked more than the Milo.  Since the Aurium I happened on the best SS amp for me, and I have moved passed my mourning stage with letting the Milo go. I don't know if I was too early in my journey for the Milo, as it is a wonderful amp with a beautiful midrange.  What I have learned over time is that I am not a big fan of the midbass bloom in either a headphone or an amp.  It is what gives the Milo such a romantic sound, something Jeff admits is very unique among his other SS offerings.  The Milo definitely has flavor, and it definitely needs the upgrades to the better attenuator at a minimum otherwise the SNR and volume play can be very limiting, at least to my ears.

Congrats on owning what is one of the best SS amps at its price point.  It is also a beautiful piece that has a very unique shape.  My wife to this day tells me she misses seeing the Milo on my desk. For me, I have found my perfect front end without the Milo, but I do look back with admiration and a smile to the days when I owned a Wells Audio Milo.


----------



## Bonddam

Doing Milo with Gold point attenuator. Need that bass bloom for my LCD5(in line waiting) and Meze Elite.


----------



## geoffalter11

Bonddam said:


> Doing Milo with Gold point attenuator. Need that bass bloom for my LCD5(in line waiting) and Meze Elite.


I just demoed the Elite. I found the bass to be wonderful on my set up. A little too forward for my tastes, but the bass was awesome. Yet to hear the LCD-5.

Not sure how I feel about all the Planars moving to a more E-Stat tuning. 

I bet the Milo will be great with both of those headphones.


----------



## Bonddam

Estat tuning as long as bass doesn’t get sacrificed in the mix. My Elite is amazing and for typical bass using ZMF. I modified the Atticus I own to have bass close to Fostex th900. I was depressed that I can’t use 1266 TC but I can only use it with a seal. Have some issue with sides of my head where gap just causes bass to be canceled out. My favorite estat is Perun Rock as they solved the major of estat by using 3 drivers instead of one. It’s got two bass drivers and a slender rectangle high driver all drivers are electrostatic. You almost get a sense of 1266 sound with no dip in midrange. Getting the Milo for LCD5 as I know what it does to low frequencies.


----------



## geoffalter11

Bonddam said:


> Estat tuning as long as bass doesn’t get sacrificed in the mix. My Elite is amazing and for typical bass using ZMF. I modified the Atticus I own to have bass close to Fostex th900. I was depressed that I can’t use 1266 TC but I can only use it with a seal. Have some issue with sides of my head where gap just causes bass to be canceled out. My favorite estat is Perun Rock as they solved the major of estat by using 3 drivers instead of one. It’s got two bass drivers and a slender rectangle high driver all drivers are electrostatic. You almost get a sense of 1266 sound with no dip in midrange. Getting the Milo for LCD5 as I know what it does to low frequencies.


That makes sense to me. I found the mids a touch too forward for my tastes on the Elite. Otherwise I loved it. My favorite 2 headphones are the D8K Pro, which I just demoed and the Hifiman Code X, which Is my baby. I own the Radiante 1706, which is an absolute bass monster. It is bass the way it should be.

My issue with the new TOTL planar tuning is that they are all starting to sound similarly instead of holding their own character. The HEKse started this trend it seems.  Haven’t tried the Perun Rock. Intriguing…

I commissioned a build of the KG CFA3, which should be here in the next 3 or so weeks. I can’t wait. It will pair beautifully with my Pontus II. I wish I still had a Milo for comparison of my CFA3. What is the Gold Point Attenuator? Is this a new attenuator being offered with Jeff’s amps?


----------



## The Piper

geoffalter11 said:


> That makes sense to me. I found the mids a touch too forward for my tastes on the Elite. Otherwise I loved it. My favorite 2 headphones are the D8K Pro, which I just demoed and the Hifiman Code X, which Is my baby. I own the Radiante 1706, which is an absolute bass monster. It is bass the way it should be.
> 
> My issue with the new TOTL planar tuning is that they are all starting to sound similarly instead of holding their own character. The HEKse started this trend it seems.  Haven’t tried the Perun Rock. Intriguing…
> 
> I commissioned a build of the KG CFA3, which should be here in the next 3 or so weeks. I can’t wait. It will pair beautifully with my Pontus II. I wish I still had a Milo for comparison of my CFA3. What is the Gold Point Attenuator? Is this a new attenuator being offered with Jeff’s amps?


The Goldpoint stepped volume control is regarded by many audiophiles to be the best sounding volume control in the world. We have also discovered that the occasional pops when changing volume with the Khozmo stepped attenuator (was due to spurious impedance changes) is gone.


----------



## geoffalter11

The Piper said:


> The Goldpoint stepped volume control is regarded by many audiophiles to be the best sounding volume control in the world. We have also discovered that the occasional pops when changing volume with the Khozmo stepped attenuator (was due to spurious impedance changes) is gone.


Interesting.  That was one of the reasons I sold my Milo.  I hated the popping with the volume pot.  Drove me nuts... I will buy another Milo in 2022.  I miss it!  Congrats on solving that issue and for continuing to be such a great designer and member of the community.


----------



## The Piper

geoffalter11 said:


> Interesting.  That was one of the reasons I sold my Milo.  I hated the popping with the volume pot.  Drove me nuts... I will buy another Milo in 2022.  I miss it!  Congrats on solving that issue and for continuing to be such a great designer and member of the community.


Thanks Geofalter. Actually it was Arn Roatcap on the Goldpoint website who described the problem we were having with the Khozmo shunt attenuators. It was never a problem of quality or neglect but of differing impedances when switching from one step to the next.


----------



## geoffalter11

I never thought it was a problem of neglect. Not ever would I consider that. Your integrity is too high. I always knew you were operating with the best of intentions. And you make beautiful products.


----------



## The Piper

geoffalter11 said:


> I never thought it was a problem of neglect. Not ever would I consider that. Your integrity is too high. I always knew you were operating with the best of intentions. And you make beautiful products.


That particular problem drove us crazy because it was an intermittent problem that didn't occur on but a small percentage of units. We may never have found the problem on our own until I read about it on the Goldpoint website.


----------



## geoffalter11

The Piper said:


> That particular problem drove us crazy because it was an intermittent problem that didn't occur on but a small percentage of units. We may never have found the problem on our own until I read about it on the Goldpoint website.


I should’ve told you. My bad… it began the moment I turned it on. I just assumed it to be part of the amp and let it lie.


----------



## Hifi59 (Nov 23, 2021)

The Piper said:


> Thanks Geofalter. Actually it was Arn Roatcap on the Goldpoint website who described the problem we were having with the Khozmo shunt attenuators. It was never a problem of quality or neglect but of differing impedances when switching from one step to the next.


So my 2018 $15k Headtrip Reference has a less than ideal volume pot?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Hifi59 said:


> So my 2018 $15k Headtrip Reference has a less than ideal volume pot?


Do you have occassional popping when switching volume?


----------



## johnzz4 (Nov 23, 2021)

Hifi59 said:


> So my 2018 $15k Headtrip Reference has a less than ideal volume pot?


Sonically, I don't think you'd notice any difference.  The Khozmo definitely has more physical heft and turn resistance.  Felt beefy.  The Goldpoint in comparison is very light to the touch, sounds equally good, and finally rid me of the pops that had me nervous to change the volume at times.  I wouldn't have switched if I wasn't getting pops.  I also upgraded to the outboard power supply since I'm using it with the low impedance LCD-5 and want the noise floor as low as possible.  It's dead silent...


----------



## Hifi59 (Nov 23, 2021)

johnzz4 said:


> Sonically, I don't think you'd notice any difference.  The Khozmo definitely has more physical heft and turn resistance.  Felt beefy.  The Goldpoint in comparison is very light to the touch, sounds equally good, and finally rid me of the pops that had me nervous to change the volume at times.  I wouldn't have switched if I wasn't getting pops.  I also upgraded to the outboard power supply since I'm using it with the low impedance LCD-5 and want the noise floor as low as possible.  It's dead silent...


No pops but static between volume settings. But all my headphone are not very efficient, like HE-6 and LCD-4. I wonder if I’d hear loud popping should I ever get higher efficiency headphones.


----------



## Roasty

With the khozmo, right after turning on the Milo Ref, I get a pop when turning from 0 volume if music is playing. If music is paused, I don't get a pop. So I just remind myself not to have music playing when turning on the unit and rotating the knob. Otherwise, the rest of the time I don't have any issues with the khozmo.


----------



## johnzz4

Hifi59 said:


> No pops but static between volume settings. But all my headphone are not very efficient, like HE-6 and LCD-4. I wonder if I’d hear loud popping should I ever get higher efficiency headphones.


The pops that would startle me were on the LCD4.  Can’t miss it when it happens.


----------



## Capunk

Just a mini impression about Milo from 3 days of use,  
I bought this amp to drive Diana V2 primarily and HD800 as secondary, with Ares II. 
After a considerable time, A-B tested both cans, somewhat HD800 feel much more alive compared to V2 with the combo? 
Milo significantly boosts the much-needed bass for HD800, and the detailed nature of HD800 somewhat helps the soft upper section come from R2R? 
In contrast to the V2, the bass is just a note improvement over my other amp, Soloist 3XP - and just a slight improvement over here and there. 
It's a night & day difference when this is paired with HD800.


----------



## dermott

Capunk said:


> In contrast to the V2, the bass is just a note improvement over my other amp, Soloist 3XP - and just a slight improvement over here and there.
> It's a night & day difference when this is paired with HD800.


I have newly acquired Ayra V2s and am now looking to an amp upgrade. Milo has caught my attention given the sound signature and power it offers. The Burson Soloist 3XP is also a contender especially given the prices now. Sounds like the differences between the Milo and the Burson are highly dependent on the cans (?). Can you speak to any areas where the Milo is clearly superior to the Soloist other than the aforementioned bass? Anyone have any thoughts on the Milo/Arya V2 combination?


----------



## geoffalter11

dermott said:


> I have newly acquired Ayra V2s and am now looking to an amp upgrade. Milo has caught my attention given the sound signature and power it offers. The Burson Soloist 3XP is also a contender especially given the prices now. Sounds like the differences between the Milo and the Burson are highly dependent on the cans (?). Can you speak to any areas where the Milo is clearly superior to the Soloist other than the aforementioned bass? Anyone have any thoughts on the Milo/Arya V2 combination?


They are not even close in sound signature. The Burson is much closer to a clean, neutral amp to my ears. The Milo has a tubey sound that is quite fetching.


----------



## geoffalter11

I am certainly no engineer, but I don’t believe the Milo is an Op Amp driven design, whereas the Burson is. 

The Milo is the better amp in my opinion. I didn’t like the Soloist or the Conductor 3XP. I found them both to be overly done in the upper midrange and treble, which gave it a tonality I wasn’t fond of. Especially with headphones on the brighter side. The Burson/Clear combo gave me a headache. 

The Milo is one smooth customer, with a warmth and tube sound that is hard to find in its price range. There is a mid bass bloom to the Milo which isn’t for everyone, but the Milo is an incredibly musical amp with wonderful tonality.

The Arya tends to be a bit bright, so I would recommend the Milo.


----------



## dermott

geoffalter11 said:


> I am certainly no engineer, but I don’t believe the Milo is an Op Amp driven design, whereas the Burson is.
> 
> The Milo is the better amp in my opinion. I didn’t like the Soloist or the Conductor 3XP. I found them both to be overly done in the upper midrange and treble, which gave it a tonality I wasn’t fond of. Especially with headphones on the brighter side. The Burson/Clear combo gave me a headache.
> 
> ...


Dammit - you are making Milo sound perfect for me! I also see you have a Pontus II. I assume you are a fan of that as well. I am thinking that Pontus II > Milo > Arya V2 could be it for me for a very long time. Is the upgraded Khozmo stepped attenuator a no brainer/must? Vishay resistors? I would want to get the XLR inputs as I am already running a balanced DAC, so all in that puts it around $2500. Anyone know how this stacks up against stock?


----------



## The Piper

dermott said:


> Dammit - you are making Milo sound perfect for me! I also see you have a Pontus II. I assume you are a fan of that as well. I am thinking that Pontus II > Milo > Arya V2 could be it for me for a very long time. Is the upgraded Khozmo stepped attenuator a no brainer/must? Vishay resistors? I would want to get the XLR inputs as I am already running a balanced DAC, so all in that puts it around $2500. Anyone know how this stacks up against stock?


If I may chime in I am no longer using the Khozmo shunt style stepped attenuator. We have learned that occasionally there is a problem with ticking or popping between the steps due to an inherent impedance problem with shunt style stepped attenuators. For a long time we felt that it must be dirty, tarnished or misaligned contacts but have found out that sometimes conditions can arise that create an impedance imbalance and very slight DC charges that manifest as pops or clicks. Since we have discovered the problem we have switched to perhaps the best stepped attenuator on the market in the Goldpoint series style stepped attenuator. We have had no more reports of clicking or popping since making the substitution. The Goldpoint is substantially more costly but I have decided to eat the extra cost to produce a better product. The Goldpoint does not need the Vishays because it is a series style and not a shunt style attenuator so you are saving there. . I would save  the cost on the XLRs Dermott as the Milo is an unbalanced design and there is no sonic value to using them with the Milo. If you want them because you currently have balanced cables then I understand but there is no advantage if you are looking for better performance. Between the Vishays and the XLRs you would be saving about $250.00. The Milo with Goldpoint would be $2250.00 plus shipping. BTW, the Milo is a hand built in the US with all discreet parts and no surface mount tech or op amps.


----------



## geoffalter11

dermott said:


> Dammit - you are making Milo sound perfect for me! I also see you have a Pontus II. I assume you are a fan of that as well. I am thinking that Pontus II > Milo > Arya V2 could be it for me for a very long time. Is the upgraded Khozmo stepped attenuator a no brainer/must? Vishay resistors? I would want to get the XLR inputs as I am already running a balanced DAC, so all in that puts it around $2500. Anyone know how this stacks up against stock?


Yes, the Pontus II is the real deal. I love it! Best DAC I’ve owned and worth twice its price in SQ. For me, I love the R2R style DAC and find it is extremely musical with great instrument separation. When I owned a Milo I used a Metrum Musette which was a R2R style NOS DAC and paired beautifully with the Milo.

As Jeff stated below, the Milo is a Single Ended amp and doesn’t benefit from XLRs. However the Pontus does. I have run the Pontus both SE and with XLR and while the RCAs are great, the DAC is inherently balanced and the dynamics are a bit better with 4 VRMs XLR versus 2 VRMs thru the RCAs. My current amp is single ended as well. I use Blue Dragon XLR to RCA interconnects so I can take advantage of the Pontus and Cembalos design ethos. I would recommend going that route and saving the money on the XLR inputs on the Milo. Moon Audio can build you interconnects that are XLR to RCA. PM me and I will send you the exact specs of what I bought for my set up.

Yes, the better volume attenuator will improve the sound significantly and give you more volume play as the Milo is quite powerful.

You are in your way to one seriously amazing front end chain.


----------



## geoffalter11

The Piper said:


> If I may chime in I am no longer using the Khozmo shunt style stepped attenuator. We have learned that occasionally there is a problem with ticking or popping between the steps due to an inherent impedance problem with shunt style stepped attenuators. For a long time we felt that it must be dirty, tarnished or misaligned contacts but have found out that sometimes conditions can arise that create an impedance imbalance and very slight DC charges that manifest as pops or clicks. Since we have discovered the problem we have switched to perhaps the best stepped attenuator on the market in the Goldpoint series style stepped attenuator. We have had no more reports of clicking or popping since making the substitution. The Goldpoint is substantially more costly but I have decided to eat the extra cost to produce a better product. The Goldpoint does not need the Vishays because it is a series style and not a shunt style attenuator so you are saving there. . I would save  the cost on the XLRs Dermott as the Milo is an unbalanced design and there is no sonic value to using them with the Milo. If you want them because you currently have balanced cables then I understand but there is no advantage if you are looking for better performance. Between the Vishays and the XLRs you would be saving about $250.00. The Milo with Goldpoint would be $2250.00 plus shipping. BTW, the Milo is a hand built in the US with all discreet parts and no surface mount tech or op amps.


Jeff that is very nice of you to not pass on the difference in cost of the attenuator and pretty cool that the new Goldpoint mitigates the need for the Vishay's.  I might have you build me a Milo that is in between the Upgraded and Reference when I am ready middle of next year.  I do miss owning a Wells Audio component.  I will call you soon to discuss what I am doing with my system in 2022 and work with you to get the right piece for my needs.


----------



## The Piper

geoffalter11 said:


> Jeff that is very nice of you to not pass on the difference in cost of the attenuator and pretty cool that the new Goldpoint mitigates the need for the Vishay's.  I might have you build me a Milo that is in between the Upgraded and Reference when I am ready middle of next year.  I do miss owning a Wells Audio component.  I will call you soon to discuss what I am doing with my system in 2022 and work with you to get the right piece for my needs.


Call me. I have some other great ideas for a Milo+.


----------



## geoffalter11

dermott said:


> Dammit - you are making Milo sound perfect for me! I also see you have a Pontus II. I assume you are a fan of that as well. I am thinking that Pontus II > Milo > Arya V2 could be it for me for a very long time. Is the upgraded Khozmo stepped attenuator a no brainer/must? Vishay resistors? I would want to get the XLR inputs as I am already running a balanced DAC, so all in that puts it around $2500. Anyone know how this stacks up against stock?


I decided to check the difference between my RCA interconnects and XLR to RCA interconnects on the Pontus II to give you an exact comparison.  Both are Moon Audio Blue Dragon Interconnects, so there should be no sonic differences between them. My amp is single ended so it actually benefits from using the RCAs.  There is no discernible difference, but the Pontus II is a different story.  Running the Pontus balanced with my XLR to RCAs yields better bass definition and improved dynamics.  The sound is a bit snappier and the timing is improved.  Cymbals and High Hats have more articulation and instrument separation is a smidge better.  It could be placebo as I am no engineer, but I hear a difference with how the Pontus sounds.  My amp is not the Milo, but is an amazing amp with incredible speed, clarity and definition.  I highly recommend the Pontus II.


----------



## geoffalter11

The Piper said:


> Call me. I have some other great ideas for a Milo+.


I am also seriously considering the Level 2 Dragon.  My buddy Matt has one and says it is the best headphone amp he has ever owned.


----------



## Hifi59

Has anyone compared the Dragon 3 to the Headtrip 2 or Headtrip 2, level2?


----------



## Capunk (Nov 25, 2021)

dermott said:


> I have newly acquired Ayra V2s and am now looking to an amp upgrade. Milo has caught my attention given the sound signature and power it offers. The Burson Soloist 3XP is also a contender especially given the prices now. Sounds like the differences between the Milo and the Burson are highly dependent on the cans (?). Can you speak to any areas where the Milo is clearly superior to the Soloist other than the aforementioned bass? Anyone have any thoughts on the Milo/Arya V2 combination?



Hey mate,
Honestly speaking we are at the diminishing return level when comparing Milo to Soloist 3XP, every bit of improvement is a luxury to begin with.

But it’s true to say that the tonal is different between both amp, Milo is colored and Soloist is a much neutral/clean amp. Milo somewhat will give you a “bass boost” to your cans, and those sense of holographic is presence, though it’s not as prominent as a proper tubes amp. Soloist isn’t a slouch as well, it just relatively more “serious” if compared to “fun” Milo. (Although, coming from A90, Soloist is on the fun side)

I actually tested the latest Arya with Milo and Singxer SA-1, SA-1 is similar to Soloist in term of neutrality and clean, yet Arya perform admirably with a great sense of depth and resolution, but with Milo, Arya  still retain the quirks but with added wider soundstage and a better bass slam.

This is just my amateur and brief assessment, it’s always best to compare it by yourself, but hope this help you making your decision.


----------



## johnzz4

Hifi59 said:


> Has anyone compared the Dragon 3 to the Headtrip 2 or Headtrip 2, level2?


I'd like to know this as well.


----------



## Hifi59

johnzz4 said:


> I'd like to know this as well.


Sadly, I think Jeff himself would’ve chimed in by now had he thought the Headtrip(s) were clearly better. This would’ve given some comfort to those of us that have spent $7k or $15k for the HT. Whatever differences there are,  I’d like to hear from him what those differences are between the Dragon III and the Headtrips.


----------



## The Piper

Hifi59 said:


> Sadly, I think Jeff himself would’ve chimed in by now had he thought the Headtrip(s) were clearly better. This would’ve given some comfort to those of us that have spent $7k or $15k for the HT. Whatever differences there are,  I’d like to hear from him what those differences are between the Dragon III and the Headtrips.


My opinion is the Dragon I and II are probably subjectively better than the Milo’s. My choice between the Dragon III and the new Headtrip with outboard power supply is my ever so slight choice currently. The Headtrip is a bit quieter so has more resolution and better dynamics. The Dragon has better tone and is more 3D.


----------



## geoffalter11

The Piper said:


> My opinion is the Dragon I and II are probably subjectively better than the Milo’s. My choice between the Dragon III and the new Headtrip with outboard power supply is my ever so slight choice currently. The Headtrip is a bit quieter so has more resolution and better dynamics. The Dragon has better tone and is more 3D.


I’m thinking Dragon II


----------



## The Piper

geoffalter11 said:


> I’m thinking Dragon II


The Dragon II for the money is maybe the best headphone amp on the market. My opinion but I may be biased.


----------



## jlbrach

yes, perhaps it is lol


----------



## geoffalter11

We’ll see. I will have a CFA3 and a Dragon Level 2 soon and will be able to try them both. Can’t wait…

The Dragon looks epic.


----------



## Hifi59

The Piper said:


> My opinion is the Dragon I and II are probably subjectively better than the Milo’s. My choice between the Dragon III and the new Headtrip with outboard power supply is my ever so slight choice currently. The Headtrip is a bit quieter so has more resolution and better dynamics. The Dragon has better tone and is more 3D.


Thanks for chiming in, Jeff. Thoughts on Dragon 3 vs HT reference (aka level 2)?


----------



## dermott

The Piper said:


> My opinion is the Dragon I and II are probably subjectively better than the Milo’s.


Do the Dragons have what it takes to drive Arya V2? Looks like they can do 5 watts (not sure at what impedance/ohms) and 1 amp of current. It is my understanding that it is amps not watts that is most important when driving planars (?). It also sounds like that 1 amp of current is not on the base model, but you have to go up to Level II for that. For the load the Arya V2 has, is the Dragon still preferred?


----------



## geoffalter11

Level 2 which is within a few hundred of the Milo will easily drive the Arya V2


----------



## The Piper

Hifi59 said:


> Thanks for chiming in, Jeff. Thoughts on Dragon 3 vs HT reference (aka level 2)?





Hifi59 said:


> Thanks for chiming in, Jeff. Thoughts on Dragon 3 vs HT reference (aka level 2)?


After quite a bit of time with both I return to the new Headtrip with the outboard power supply as the most engaging amp choice between the two. Someone else may choose the Dragon because of the typical tube strengths of 3D quality and slightly better tonality. I just find the incredibly low noise floor and how deeply I can heafr into the music tips the scales for me towards the Headtrip. The Headtrip Level II is even greater in all respects. So, to revisit, at the lower price points the Dragon is magnificent and superior. At higher price ppints the Headtrip II and Level II and just the best I have experienced. OceanRanger may have something to say about this as he has owned the Dragon Level III and currently owns the Headtrip II Level II.


dermott said:


> Do the Dragons have what it takes to drive Arya V2? Looks like they can do 5 watts (not sure at what impedance/ohms) and 1 amp of current. It is my understanding that it is amps not watts that is most important when driving planars (?). It also sounds like that 1 amp of current is not on the base model, but you have to go up to Level II for that. For the load the Arya V2 has, is the Dragon still preferred?


The Dragons will drive ANY headphone on the market easily except the RAAL.


----------



## Hifi59

The Piper said:


> After quite a bit of time with both I return to the new Headtrip with the outboard power supply as the most engaging amp choice between the two. Someone else may choose the Dragon because of the typical tube strengths of 3D quality and slightly better tonality. I just find the incredibly low noise floor and how deeply I can heafr into the music tips the scales for me towards the Headtrip. The Headtrip Level II is even greater in all respects. So, to revisit, at the lower price points the Dragon is magnificent and superior. At higher price ppints the Headtrip II and Level II and just the best I have experienced. OceanRanger may have something to say about this as he has owned the Dragon Level III and currently owns the Headtrip II Level II.
> 
> Your response is much appreciated Jeff, but you emphasis “Headtrip with outboard power supplies”. Most of us with Headtrip level 2 amps don’t have the outboard power supply. Reading between the lines, I suspect the Dragon 2/3 are actually the better of the 2 or at least subjectively the equal of the HT level 2. At almost a $10k difference in price, why would anyone even consider the HT level 2 other than having more, but mostly unneeded, power? I’m not understanding any value of buying the HT2 level 2 over the Dragon 2/3. It just doesn’t make sense. This bodes well for the Dragon. Not so much for us Headtrip owners.


----------



## The Piper

The Previous Headtrip abd Headtrip Reference would still be my choice personally.


----------



## OceanRanger

johnzz4 said:


> I'd like to know this as well.


I have purchased and owned three Wells Audio Headphone Amplifiers. 1) Headtrip II, 2) Dragon LIII, and 3) Headtrip II LII. They each have their own character and strengths. 

My first Wells Audio headphone amplifier purchase was a Headtrip II. I used it only with 1266TC and Arya V1s. I really enjoyed this amp. There was a bit of noise when adjusting the volume on this amp, but it was only present when turning the knob. Note that I had no noise when driving the Aryas with this amp. This is a powerful and dynamic sounding amp. I ended up getting lured into the Dragon after several listening sessions at Jeff's. I also wanted to dabble with some tube rolling so the Dragon seemed like a logical next step. I am space constrained and can have only one amp at a time. So I sold the Headtrip II and move over to the Dragon.

Enter the Dragon LIII. I had listened to this unit at Jeff's location when it had 100 hours on it. I believe that it was one of the first Dragon units he built. Then I listened to it again when it had about 400 hours on it. I finally purchased it after it had about 650 hours on it. The difference between these sessions was crazy. I think that the parts he is using take quite a while to burn in. This was enough to convince me that burn in is real.  This amp has a wonderful airiness about it. It is 3 dimensional. I felt like I was sitting with the musicians. With the different gain settings, this amp scales amazingly well with headphones that have differing sensitivity and efficiency. It paired with and drove the 1266s quite well. The optical volume control is sensitive. The knob is heavy, but because it is optical, it doesn't have much resistance when turning. 

I really loved the 3D sound from the Dragon LIII, but I missed the dynamics and speed of the Headtrip. I decided to upgrade from the Dragon LIII to a Headtrip II LII. I prefer the sound of the Headtrip II LII to the sound of the Dragon LIII. While I can't play with tubes and I can't adjust the gain settings. The Headtrip has better speed and power, though I don't get the same 3 dimensionality in my listening sessions. This amp now has about 850 hours on it and again it has opened up tremendously since the first 100 hours. I have added a pair of Susvaras to the stable. The Dragon LIII was capable of driving them, but they seem to bloom more so with the Headtrip II LII. I hear more detail in the mid range while maintaining a very natural sound. The Headtrip II LII is an endgame amp for me and I am still thrilled each time I listen to it. My unit has a Goldpoint attenuator which has a wonderful feel and resistance to it. It is also dead silent. I very much prefer this attenuator to the Khozmo on my first HT and to the optical attenuator on the Dragon LIII.

A few other thoughts....

Balancing the system - I've figured out that I really like sound of tube DACs. I have a Hugo2 that I use, mostly for portable/mobile listening. I actually prefer the sound of the Dragon with the Hugo2 when compared to the Headtrip with the Hugo2. The Dragon sounds awesome with my Cipher (much better than the Hugo2), but the Headtrip, to me, sounds even better. I suspect that the tube output stage on the Dragon helps with what I would describe as a more analytical nature of the Hugo2. I guess that it is tough to say which is better without taking into account the overall system.

Bang-for-the-buck - at nearly 3x the price, it doesn't seem super fair to compare the Headtrip II LII to the Dragon LIII. I do like the sound of the Headtrip II LII better than the Dragon LIII for the reasons mentioned above. However, at $5,500, the Dragon LIII is really tough to beat. A more fair comparison might be the Headtrip II to the Dragon LIII. My Headtrip II had an internal power supply and the Khozmo attenuator. My Headtrip II LII has an external power supply and a Goldpoint attenuator. Both of these I feel were substantial upgrades and contribute to my enjoyment of the upgraded Headtrip.

Hopefully my experience and these thoughts are useful...


----------



## Arcamera

I've been thinking about getting the Meze Elite, to pair with my Milo (anyone else have experience with this combo?) A nice review here of the Elite/Empyrean, with positive comments for the Milo:


----------



## OceanRanger

Arcamera said:


> I've been thinking about getting the Meze Elite, to pair with my Milo (anyone else have experience with this combo?) A nice review here of the Elite/Empyrean, with positive comments for the Milo:



It feels like @Bonddam might be able to answer this question.


----------



## Bonddam

Arcamera said:


> I've been thinking about getting the Meze Elite, to pair with my Milo (anyone else have experience with this combo?) A nice review here of the Elite/Empyrean, with positive comments for the Milo:



If you do that combo there should be a bass increase adding the needed oomph. The Elite has a realistic sound where they got the tuning more neutral clearing up the top end. The added fun of a Milo would make them even better. 
I’m waiting for my Milo with Goldpoint attenuator to ship out Friday but I sold the Elite already being replaced by LCD5.


----------



## Roasty

I am trying the Elite with the Milo Ref now and there is probably too much gain for the Elite, in that I can hear a constant background hum with this pairing. Otherwise, the music does sound quite nice.


----------



## geoffalter11

Roasty said:


> I am trying the Elite with the Milo Ref now and there is probably too much gain for the Elite, in that I can hear a constant background hum with this pairing. Otherwise, the music does sound quite nice.


I don’t own a Milo, but I own a Cembalo Spring 1 which has 25db of gain. The Elite had a hum but once the music started was quite wonderful. Albeit a bit mid-forward. It has that E-Stat Planar tuning that has become the norm in all the TOTL Planars. When I owned a Milo I found high impedance headphones and inefficient Planars to be sublime. Efficent dynamic headphones were less so. My all time favorite pairing was the ZMF Ori with the Milo. That headphone needs some serious power. Also my Code X was amazing on the Milo. I would imagine the Stellia or Clear would be too efficient.


----------



## Roasty

geoffalter11 said:


> I don’t own a Milo, but I own a Cembalo Spring 1 which has 25db of gain. The Elite had a hum but once the music started was quite wonderful. Albeit a bit mid-forward. It has that E-Stat Planar tuning that has become the norm in all the TOTL Planars. When I owned a Milo I found high impedance headphones and inefficient Planars to be sublime. Efficent dynamic headphones were less so. My all time favorite pairing was the ZMF Ori with the Milo. That headphone needs some serious power. Also my Code X was amazing on the Milo. I would imagine the Stellia or Clear would be too efficient.



yep agreed. Abyss sounds great out of the Milo Ref.
i cant use my utopia or stellia with it as the hum is really quite loud, and so are the clicks when raising volume.


----------



## geoffalter11

Roasty said:


> yep agreed. Abyss sounds great out of the Milo Ref.
> i cant use my utopia or stellia with it as the hum is really quite loud, and so are the clicks when raising volume.


The clicking volume attenuator was led me to selling the Milo. He seems to have fixed the issue


----------



## geoffalter11

Roasty said:


> yep agreed. Abyss sounds great out of the Milo Ref.
> i cant use my utopia or stellia with it as the hum is really quite loud, and so are the clicks when raising volume.


How much different does the Milo Ref sound to the normal upgraded Milo?


----------



## Roasty

geoffalter11 said:


> How much different does the Milo Ref sound to the normal upgraded Milo?



Sorry, never heard the normal Milo..


----------



## OceanRanger

geoffalter11 said:


> The clicking volume attenuator was led me to selling the Milo. He seems to have fixed the issue


I had noise with the Khozmo attenuator on my first Headtrip. Jeff put the Goldpoint attenuator on my current Headtrip. The attenuator is now silent and I think that it has a much better feel.


----------



## The Piper

geoffalter11 said:


> The clicking volume attenuator was led me to selling the Milo. He seems to have fixed the issue


I thought it a good time to announce a couple of Milo developments in the coming months. We have finally appeared to find a fix for the intermittent clicking and occasional popping when changing volume with the Khozmo shunt style attenuator. We have made a switch to the Goldpoint attenuator (many believe it to be the best sounding attenuator in the world) for upgraded performance Milos and Headtrips in all sales going forward. Due to the overwhelming success of the Headtrip II outboard power supply I will adding this option to the Milo in the near future. There will be a Milo with Goldpoint and outboard power supply model that will also now include Bybee AC power filters in the power supply as a new and separate model. The Milo will also be eligible to have the outboard power supply added to existing units. The Milo with outboard power and Goldpoint will retail for $3200.00. Pricing for the outboard power supply is yet to be determined. These changes will not only make the Milo even more musical and resolving but solve the noisy volume issues and provide a level of quietness that will make it the best option for very efficient headphones such as the Meze Elite and Focal Utopias, et al. At this price point it very well may be the best headphone amp on the market, bang for buck. As always in the past these products continue to be entirely hand built by me in America with a majority of the materials sourced in the US.


----------



## geoffalter11

The Piper said:


> I thought it a good time to announce a couple of Milo developments in the coming months. We have finally appeared to find a fix for the intermittent clicking and occasional popping when changing volume with the Khozmo shunt style attenuator. We have made a switch to the Goldpoint attenuator (many believe it to be the best sounding attenuator in the world) for upgraded performance Milos and Headtrips in all sales going forward. Due to the overwhelming success of the Headtrip II outboard power supply I will adding this option to the Milo in the near future. There will be a Milo with Goldpoint and outboard power supply model that will also now include Bybee AC power filters in the power supply as a new and separate model. The Milo will also be eligible to have the outboard power supply added to existing units. The Milo with outboard power and Goldpoint will retail for $3200.00. Pricing for the outboard power supply is yet to be determined. These changes will not only make the Milo even more musical and resolving but solve the noisy volume issues and provide a level of quietness that will make it the best option for very efficient headphones such as the Meze Elite and Focal Utopias, et al. At this price point it very well may be the best headphone amp on the market, bang for buck. As always in the past these products continue to be entirely hand built by me in America with a majority of the materials sourced in the US.


Thanks Jeff. Sounds great! I am still leaning the Dragon Level 2 route. Need some tubes in my life.


----------



## geoffalter11

The Piper said:


> I thought it a good time to announce a couple of Milo developments in the coming months. We have finally appeared to find a fix for the intermittent clicking and occasional popping when changing volume with the Khozmo shunt style attenuator. We have made a switch to the Goldpoint attenuator (many believe it to be the best sounding attenuator in the world) for upgraded performance Milos and Headtrips in all sales going forward. Due to the overwhelming success of the Headtrip II outboard power supply I will adding this option to the Milo in the near future. There will be a Milo with Goldpoint and outboard power supply model that will also now include Bybee AC power filters in the power supply as a new and separate model. The Milo will also be eligible to have the outboard power supply added to existing units. The Milo with outboard power and Goldpoint will retail for $3200.00. Pricing for the outboard power supply is yet to be determined. These changes will not only make the Milo even more musical and resolving but solve the noisy volume issues and provide a level of quietness that will make it the best option for very efficient headphones such as the Meze Elite and Focal Utopias, et al. At this price point it very well may be the best headphone amp on the market, bang for buck. As always in the past these products continue to be entirely hand built by me in America with a majority of the materials sourced in the US.


Have you built any of your amps with a TKD 10K Quad attenuator or a Alps RK50? How much of a difference does the attenuator make on your amps?


----------



## The Piper

geoffalter11 said:


> Have you built any of your amps with a TKD 10K Quad attenuator or a Alps RK50? How much of a difference does the attenuator make on your amps?


Neither company builds an attenuator as good as the Goldpoint. We have found through our experiences with different attenuators there is a very definite difference between them.


----------



## The Piper

geoffalter11 said:


> Thanks Jeff. Sounds great! I am still leaning the Dragon Level 2 route. Need some tubes in my life.


As I have stated I think a Dragon of some level would be my choice below the Headtrip level.


----------



## jonathan c

Would the Goldpoint attenuator be available in the Dragon Level III?


----------



## The Piper

jonathan c said:


> Would the Goldpoint attenuator be available in the Dragon Level III?


Yes. Upon request.


----------



## OceanRanger

jonathan c said:


> Would the Goldpoint attenuator be available in the Dragon Level III?


This is the configuration that I would opt for...


----------



## geoffalter11

I would want the gold point in my level 2.


----------



## geoffalter11

My CFA3 arrives in the next week or so. That amp will tell me a lot about what my next move will be in my chain.


----------



## The Piper

geoffalter11 said:


> I would want the gold point in my level 2.


The Goldpoint can be added to the Level II for an additional $450.00.


----------



## OceanRanger

geoffalter11 said:


> Thanks Jeff. Sounds great! I am still leaning the Dragon Level 2 route. Need some tubes in my life.


This might be a controversial statement, but if you need some tubes in your life....I'd listen to a tube DAC. After "headphone rolling", which is a new term for me, I found that moving to a tube DAC made a bigger difference in the sound of my system than changing amps. I am also a bit biased for the Cipher DAC. I know that @Bonddam is a tube DAC convert too. Food for thought...


----------



## geoffalter11

OceanRanger said:


> This might be a controversial statement, but if you need some tubes in your life....I'd listen to a tube DAC. After "headphone rolling", which is a new term for me, I found that moving to a tube DAC made a bigger difference in the sound of my system than changing amps. I am also a bit biased for the Cipher DAC. I know that @Bonddam is a tube DAC convert too. Food for thought...


I’m pretty happy with my DAC but it is good for thought. I am also interested in the Trafomatic Head 2. I am sure the Cipher is a great DAC.


----------



## Bonddam

My mind has to be made up sell my loved LCD 5 and use that money towards my Cipher upgrade. Choice is hard because the lvl 1 is so good. My 2nd choice just wait till I pay off my debt then buy but I have to replace the shingles on my house which will cost 10-15 grand. Plus water heater needs to be replaced as it's reaching 10 years.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm going to keep the LCD 5 and most likely let Diana TC go. It's too similar to 1266. Difference more intimate and more playing our headphone normal bass.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Still loving this amp but I'm getting a scratchy or crackly sound on the left channel. I saw someone else mention they had this problem in a classified post so I assume it's not just me.

Has anyone ever dealt with this before?


----------



## Hifi59 (Feb 4, 2022)

Relaxasaurus said:


> Still loving this amp but I'm getting a scratchy or crackly sound on the left channel. I saw someone else mention they had this problem in a classified post so I assume it's not just me.
> 
> Has anyone ever dealt with this before?


I had a weird issue like this on one channel when I owned my Milo. Turned out that it didn’t like my cell phone being located next to it. I realized that my phone would sit next to it on its charger. On a hunch, I moved the phone and issue went away. Not sure if this is same noise you hear,  it worth checking out. Good luck.


----------



## musicman59

Yes, it seems it is susceptible to interference.
When I had mine I was using a Squeezebox to stream music connected digitally to a Chord 2Qute DAC and to the Milo. I was getting noise in one channel. When I moved the Squeezebox and DAC farther away the noise went away.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

I think it's an internal hardware issue. The guy who owned it before me sent it to Jeff for him to fix but the issue is rearing its ugly head again. I also loaned the amp to a friend and he had the same issue in his system.

Oh well, mine just may be a fluke instead of a widespread thing.


----------



## spw1880

Hi,

Does anyone know the model type of the new goldpoint attenuators used in the current generation milo? 

Many thanks


----------



## Bonddam (Apr 6, 2022)

spw1880 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone know the model type of the new goldpoint attenuators used in the current generation milo?
> 
> Many thanks


47 step there’s two and 47 is top

https://www.goldpt.com/compare.html


----------



## The Piper

Bonddam said:


> 47 step there’s two and 47 is top
> 
> https://www.goldpt.com/compare.html


It iscthe 47 step 50k stereo.


----------



## spw1880

The Piper said:


> It iscthe 47 step 50k stereo.


Thanks for the information. So this model is the one with resistors pre-installed yes?


----------



## Bonddam

spw1880 said:


> Thanks for the information. So this model is the one with resistors pre-installed yes?


Yes


----------



## spw1880

Thanks for the information. I have already emailed goldpoint. Did you buy your unit already with the gold point or did you get it upgraded later on?


----------



## spw1880

Bonddam said:


> Yes


Thanks. Btw have you ever fed the milo through a pre amp? Since the milo is already very powerful i was wondering if a pre amp will improve its sound in anyway.


----------



## Jawsq

Hifi59 said:


> I had a weird issue like this on one channel when I owned my Milo. Turned out that it didn’t like my cell phone being located next to it. I realized that my phone would sit next to it on its charger. On a hunch, I moved the phone and issue went away. Not sure if this is same noise you hear,  it worth checking out. Good luck.


Man i having that same issue now. its every now and then. I was thinking it was my susvaras but then i plugged in the hd800s and the left channel was completely gone. Then it all came back. I will pay attention to where i place my phone. thank you


----------



## Jetblack08

Question for anyone here with knowledge of this. Purchased the Chord Qutest but it is not a good pairing with the Milo as the Qutest is a Dac with no volume knob. Does the Milo work with a pre-amp and if so any suggestions?


----------



## musicman59

I used to have the Qutest and the Milo. 
The Milo has volume control why do you need one in the DAC or need a preamp?


----------



## Jetblack08

musicman59 said:


> I used to have the Qutest and the Milo.
> The Milo has volume control why do you need one in the DAC or need a preamp?


Disregard my question. I was told by someone in the Qutest forum to adjust the voltage on the Qutest.


----------



## musicman59

Ok. I don’t think you need to do anything. I didn’t.


----------



## spw1880

Hi, has anyone experimented if swapping fuses on the milo. May i ask to share some experiences with sonic changes if any.

Thanks


----------



## musicman59

I have always done it in my equipment. I actually ordered my Milo with the Furutech fuses from Wells Audio.

I like the Furutech and HiFiTuning. It is not a huge difference in sound but they do make the sound a little cleaner and smoother IMO.
To me does not make sense to have a thousands of dollars piece of equipment and passing the AC through a 3 cents fuse but just my opinion…


----------



## spw1880 (May 7, 2022)

musicman59 said:


> I have always done it in my equipment. I actually ordered my Milo with the Furutech fuses from Wells Audio.
> 
> I like the Furutech and HiFiTuning. It is not a huge difference in sound but they do make the sound a little cleaner and smoother IMO.
> To me does not make sense to have a thousands of dollars piece of equipment and passing the AC through a 3 cents fuse but just my opinion…



I was looking to do some mods on the milo. Maybe it would improve some sonic characteristics. Since i have the OG model..i thought i'd start with some external parts like fuses. Maybe a ceramic one.

 I can see that its 6.3A 250v fuse. But is it fast blo or slow?

Also I would like to ask if anyone knows the vishay naked z foil resistor values, 
And also the toroidal transformer specs.

Many Thanks


----------



## EarDrumExplode

any lcd-3 users with the milo?


----------



## Astral Abyss

Jetblack08 said:


> Disregard my question. I was told by someone in the Qutest forum to adjust the voltage on the Qutest.


You can set the voltage output of the Qutest when powering on.  It's a valid point.


----------



## Arcamera

EarDrumExplode said:


> any lcd-3 users with the milo?


I don't have the 3, but I have the LCD4, and like it a lot with the Milo.


----------



## Hifi59

EarDrumExplode said:


> any lcd-3 users with the milo?


I had the Milo and still have my lcd-3. They play well together with no issues.


----------



## spw1880

Replying to my own question. Found all the specs of the resistors, lytic Caps, transformer and fuses after taking the milo covers off. Theres some interesting component swaps i may try out. Maybe even some aesthetic touches.


----------



## EarDrumExplode

Just pulled the trigger and ordered a milo, pairing with lcd-3's and using my Bryston BDA-3. I know the BDA-3 isnt everyone's cup of tea but with all the inputs (which i actullay use) it suits me real well. i cant wait!!!!


----------



## Jawsq

Hey guys shameless plug here, if you are interested in an upgraded Milo I have mine for sale here:

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/wells-audio-milo-upgraded.26046/


----------



## Arcamera

A combination I've been loving lately: the Milo with my Kennerton Thekk (with a Dana Lazuli Reference cable). Really enjoying the synergy.


----------



## Arcamera

Glad to see the Wells gear getting good reviews at CanJam Chicago. Jeff, if you're around (or anyone), can you comment on the latest iteration of the Milo-- now with an outboard power supply?


----------



## The Piper

Arcamera said:


> Glad to see the Wells gear getting good reviews at CanJam Chicago. Jeff, if you're around (or anyone), can you comment on the latest iteration of the Milo-- now with an outboard power supply?


The outboard power supply reduces noise to vanishing levels and allows for the Milo to now be used with the most efficient headphones on the market with absolute noise free, inky black noise floor. The Milo with outboard power supply and the upgraded Gold point volume control to match the much more expensive previous Headtrips. The Milo with outboard power supply is superior sonically in just about every way.


----------



## David222

I'm excited to have acquired a Milo.  It's currently at the shop with Jeff as we make it "grado friendly" via Gold point control - without sacrificing performance at the other end (ZMFs, etc.).   

Jeff and team are true craftsmen.


----------



## The Piper

David222 said:


> I'm excited to have acquired a Milo.  It's currently at the shop with Jeff as we make it "grado friendly" via Gold point control - without sacrificing performance at the other end (ZMFs, etc.).
> 
> Jeff and team are true craftsmen.


Listening to it right now.


----------



## The Piper

Wells Audio will be exhibiting an unprecedented, never before experienced amount of state-of-the-art headphone electronics at the 2022 SoCal CanJam. A partial list of the products that can be seen and experienced will be lead by the absolute world's best amplification, the world premier of the Headtrip III Level II monoblocks amplifiers driven by the Commander Level III tube preamplifier with the Innuos Zenith 3 music server with the new Phoenix reclocker. Also on display will be the new Headtrip II with outboard power supply, the Milo with outboard power supply, the Dragon tube amp, the prototype of the coming $800.00 DAC and a prototype of the new Milo Reference with outboard power supply and newly added aggressive noise filtering. If you consider yourself a passionate headphone follower this will be opportunity to experience the best the current headphone market has to offer and one that may not be soon matched. If anyone has questions don't hesitate to ask them. Hope to see you there


----------



## ThanatosVI

The Piper said:


> Wells Audio will be exhibiting an unprecedented, never before experienced amount of state-of-the-art headphone electronics at the 2022 SoCal CanJam. A partial list of the products that can be seen and experienced will be lead by the absolute world's best amplification, the world premier of the Headtrip III Level II monoblocks amplifiers driven by the Commander Level III tube preamplifier with the Innuos Zenith 3 music server with the new Phoenix reclocker. Also on display will be the new Headtrip II with outboard power supply, the Milo with outboard power supply, the Dragon tube amp, the prototype of the coming $800.00 DAC and a prototype of the new Milo Reference with outboard power supply and newly added aggressive noise filtering. If you consider yourself a passionate headphone follower this will be opportunity to experience the best the current headphone market has to offer and one that may not be soon matched. If anyone has questions don't hesitate to ask them. Hope to see you there


Can I see some pictures of the Headtrip III Level II monoblocks?


----------



## The Piper

ThanatosVI said:


> Can I see some pictures of the Headtrip III Level II monoblocks?


Here is a picture at the shop taken from my phone. They are too new to have professional pictures available.


----------



## elira

@The Piper 

Do you have a picture of the mile with outboard power supply?


----------



## The Piper

elira said:


> @The Piper
> 
> Do you have a picture of the mile with outboard power supply?


----------



## paradoxper

ThanatosVI said:


> Can I see some pictures of the Headtrip III Level II monoblocks?


Don't tell me you're interested in these mediocre amps.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Sep 8, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> Don't tell me you're interested in these mediocre amps.


I wanted to see how they look, since headphone monoblocks are quite rare.

The only amp I'm interested in buying is the Feliks Envy. Which is planned for when my current one is sold. You know, to get some Elrog into my setup


----------



## Arcamera

I'm still loving my Milo. Probably next amp up for me will be some upgraded version.


----------



## EarDrumExplode

Just got the lcd-5’s to keep my milo company. Great pairing!! The clarity on both ends are insane!!


----------



## SunRa Fan

I'm considering getting a Milo, but from my reading, the base model is not a good pair for sensitive cans(Focal Clear MG and Meze 99 classics).  Can anyone comment on which mods to the Milo would best allow me to continue enjoying my Focals?  Also, can anyone tell me what Wells Audio's return policy is if I purchase one but wind up wanting to return it after an audition?  I can't find any info about this on their website.


----------



## commtrd

paradoxper said:


> Don't tell me you're interested in these mediocre amps.


OK O learned one, please inform us low-lifes just why these amps aren't all that... prolly looking at a Feliks Envy or similar tube amp future, but why slam these amps?


----------



## jonathan c

EarDrumExplode said:


> Just got the lcd-5’s to keep my milo company. Great pairing!! The clarity on both ends are insane!!


What about the middle…?🤔


----------



## The Piper

SunRa Fan said:


> I'm considering getting a Milo, but from my reading, the base model is not a good pair for sensitive cans(Focal Clear MG and Meze 99 classics).  Can anyone comment on which mods to the Milo would best allow me to continue enjoying my Focals?  Also, can anyone tell me what Wells Audio's return policy is if I purchase one but wind up wanting to return it after an audition?  I can't find any info about this on their website.


I have answered these concerns for SunRa already but though it would be helpful to posts the answers. We designed a new outboard power supply that reduces noise to a vanishing level. We even have customers using the Milo with very sensitive IEMs with no noise. About a month ago we came up with a circuit to add a pair of gain cut switches that reduce the gain by 50% with flip of a pair of switches. These two new features have addressed those shortcomings that have kept some from being able to experience the Milo to it's full potential but those days are now gone. Those that are owners of very efficient headphones no longer have any excuses not to own the Milo. BTW, these features are also available to be added to the Headtrip.


----------



## The Piper

The Piper said:


> I have answered these concerns for SunRa already but though it would be helpful to posts the answers. We designed a new outboard power supply that reduces noise to a vanishing level. We even have customers using the Milo with very sensitive IEMs with no noise. About a month ago we came up with a circuit to add a pair of gain cut switches that reduce the gain by 50% with flip of a pair of switches. These two new features have addressed those shortcomings that have kept some from being able to experience the Milo to it's full potential but those days are now gone. Those that are owners of very efficient headphones no longer have any excuses not to own the Milo. BTW, these features are also available to be added to the Headtrip.


As a follow up Zachik has taken possession of a new Milo with the outboard power supply as well as the new gain cut circuit. He may want to comment soon on his experiences with it.


----------



## Hifi59

The Piper said:


> I have answered these concerns for SunRa already but though it would be helpful to posts the answers. We designed a new outboard power supply that reduces noise to a vanishing level. We even have customers using the Milo with very sensitive IEMs with no noise. About a month ago we came up with a circuit to add a pair of gain cut switches that reduce the gain by 50% with flip of a pair of switches. These two new features have addressed those shortcomings that have kept some from being able to experience the Milo to it's full potential but those days are now gone. Those that are owners of very efficient headphones no longer have any excuses not to own the Milo. BTW, these features are also available to be added to the Headtrip.


So those of us who bought the $15k Headtrip Reference (Level 2) with internal power supplies sort of got screwed? For that kind of money, this is a big oversight to not have included an outboard power supply knowing that it’s the best solution for noise elimination. It’s not like outboard power supplies are new technology that it couldn’t have come with the HT Reference when you first introduced it. If an outboard power supply was known to be a better solution at the time, it should have come with that, especially at its price point. Feeling short changed.


----------



## commtrd

Prolly take Wells Audio off the short list at this time. Not bashing their product, just natural selection at work LOL.


----------



## paradoxper

commtrd said:


> OK O learned one, please inform us low-lifes just why these amps aren't all that... prolly looking at a Feliks Envy or similar tube amp future, but why slam these amps?


There's plenty of discussion around why their amps are terrible.

They're severely overpriced for what simple topologies are served up, sold with wasting boutique parts of questionable quality.
Look at the constant up-sell of levels -- the very nature of gimped power supply and consequence of gimmicky high gain design, and woeful craftmanship. It's sad.

But if you want to pay the piper, go for it.

The reason I slam these amps is they remind me a lot of The Dark Star which sells to the ignorant audiophile.


----------



## commtrd

paradoxper said:


> There's plenty of discussion around why their amps are terrible.
> 
> They're severely overpriced for what simple topologies are served up, sold with wasting boutique parts of questionable quality.
> Look at the constant up-sell of levels -- the very nature of gimped power supply and consequence of gimmicky high gain design, and woeful craftmanship. It's sad.
> ...


OK I was just curious. Personally I like the Headamp Gilmore topologies; I have a GSX Mini which is just superlative IMHO. Someday I would like to get a TOTL tube amp like the Feliks Envy or similar, still researching tube amps as I don't know much about them at all. I do know that Wells Audio is darned proud of their amps, I have never owned one or known anyone who did.


----------



## Zachik

The Piper said:


> As a follow up Zachik has taken possession of a new Milo with the outboard power supply as well as the new gain cut circuit. He may want to comment soon on his experiences with it.


Just discovered this thread today (have not read the previous 64 pages)...
As @The Piper mentioned, I bought very recently a new Milo with several upgrades:
* External PSU
* Goldpoint stepped attenuator
* Bybee AC purifiers
* Gain cut circuit (high/low gain switches)

I fell in love with this amp during CanJam Socal (2 months ago) paired with the ZMF Caldera. 
At home, with my DAC and source - my Milo sounds glorious! 
Coming from a tube guy, this amp is the most musical solid-state amp I ever heard. 

I have not tested it with sensitive headphones, yet, but with the Caldera:
* High gain (basically full gain like every Milo built to date): I paused the music, and cranked the volume to max. Very slight audible noise floor with the Caldera. Mind you, at this volume level if I start the music by mistake - I might blow my ear drums! Milo is a VERY powerful amp!!! So such low noise floor at max volume is VERY impressive.
* Low gain (new gain cut circuit engaged): Now, I cannot hear the noise floor anymore (with the Caldera). I will conduct this experiment again, to confirm what I remember, but IF the noise floor is audible - now it is VERY hard to hear it. Again, at max volume which I guarantee you'll never get close to.

Another note about noise floor:
Even at high gain, I could not hear ANY noise floor at VERY VERY loud volume levels. So, even if you're the person who listens at HIGH levels - with the ZMF Caldera, you will not hear it between songs or very quiet passages.

I will test it out with sensitive headphones, but will have to wait for a couple of days for that...


----------



## Zachik

EarDrumExplode said:


> Just got the lcd-5’s to keep my milo company. Great pairing!! The clarity on both ends are insane!!


Great synergy with ZMF Caldera as well. I think planars just love being driven by this amp


----------



## The Piper

SunRa Fan said:


> I'm considering getting a Milo, but from my reading, the base model is not a good pair for sensitive cans(Focal Clear MG and Meze 99 classics).  Can anyone comment on which mods to the Milo would best allow me to continue enjoying my Focals?  Also, can anyone tell me what Wells Audio's return policy is if I purchase one but wind up wanting to return it after an audition?  I can't find any info about this on their website.


Please see Zachik's short description below. Seems like exactly the info you have been seeking.


----------



## Zachik

Hifi59 said:


> So those of us who bought the $15k Headtrip Reference (Level 2) with internal power supplies sort of got screwed? For that kind of money, this is a big oversight to not have included an outboard power supply knowing that it’s the best solution for noise elimination. It’s not like outboard power supplies are new technology that it couldn’t have come with the HT Reference when you first introduced it. If an outboard power supply was known to be a better solution at the time, it should have come with that, especially at its price point. Feeling short changed.


First, I strongly suggest you contact @The Piper by PM (or email). He has the best upgrade policy I ever heard of.
Trying to address your specific comments above:
* So those of us who bought the $15k Headtrip Reference (Level 2) with internal power supplies sort of got screwed?
Do you like how your Headtrip Reference sounds? If so, why are you screwed? A new equipment, even if it sounds better, does not make your existing equipment sound bad all of the sudden 

* this is a big oversight to not have included an outboard power supply knowing that it’s the best solution for noise elimination
Are you also complaining that it is a big oversight by Apple not to include 12 MP camera in the iPhone 3G some 10+ years ago? 
As technology advances or when we all of the sudden come up with new ideas for improvements - we test them and if that is better, we adopt it. I do not think it was an oversight but rather an idea that came up later, was tested, and as a result - adopted! Again, talk to Jeff and remember that back when you bought the amp - you would have paid extra for external PSU.

* Feeling short changed.
With Jeff Wells - you should not feel bad or short-changed! 
External PSU back then would have costed you extra. What if you get the chance to pay that extra NOW and get your amp upgraded? 

I will conclude by saying that during my short time of knowing Jeff - he is a very honest and fair person. Talk to him.


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## robm321

^ Agreed. Years ago he was my audio dealer, and I'm still listening to some of equipment that I bought from him, because his recommendations were perfect. Always honest.


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## Hifi59 (Dec 2, 2022)

Zachik said:


> First, I strongly suggest you contact @The Piper by PM (or email). He has the best upgrade policy I ever heard of.
> Trying to address your specific comments above:
> * So those of us who bought the $15k Headtrip Reference (Level 2) with internal power supplies sort of got screwed?
> Do you like how your Headtrip Reference sounds? If so, why are you screwed? A new equipment, even if it sounds better, does not make your existing equipment sound bad all of the sudden
> ...


I’ve communicated with Jeff in the past. He IS a nice guy and I believe an honest one. This is not in question. It was the design choice at this price level. Your Apple phone comparison isn’t valid because as technology changes, so does the newer models. My point was that an external power supply is NOT new technology and for the price of the HT reference, it should have been part of the design back when they were first introduced. External Power supplies are well known to more often be the best option. My HT reference does sound good but I only use inefficient headphones. I’m sure that with efficient headphones, an external ps would have been a better solution for suppressing noise. If an amp only cost under a few thousand, I completely understand integrating the power supply within the chassis.


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## SunRa Fan

Does the Milo support both headphone outputs at the same time?  Is it capable of driving both at the same time?


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## The Piper

Hifi59 said:


> I’ve communicated with Jeff in the past. He IS a nice guy and I believe an honest one. This is not in question. It was the design choice at this price level. Your Apple phone comparison isn’t valid because as technology changes, so does the newer models. My point was that an external power supply is NOT new technology and for the price of the HT reference, it should have been part of the design back when they were first introduced. External Power supplies are well known to more often be the best option. My HT reference does sound good but I only use inefficient headphones. I’m sure that with efficient headphones, an external ps would have been a better solution for suppressing noise. If an amp only cost under a few thousand, I completely understand integrating the power supply within the chassis.


When did you purchase your Headtrip?


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## The Piper

SunRa Fan said:


> Does the Milo support both headphone outputs at the same time?  Is it capable of driving both at the same time?


The Milo supports both the RCAs and XLRs at the same time. Because of it's power it can operate quite effectively even with difficult loads.


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## Hifi59

The Piper said:


> When did you purchase your Headtrip?


I had the Headtrip and sent it to you for the HT reference upgrade a few years ago.


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## Sound Eq

greetings

any feedback on the enigma amp for using it with susvara, there is no info or reviews on it

any comparisons other totl amps within 4-6k price range, such as comparing it to enleum or auris nirvana


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## The Piper

Sound Eq said:


> greetings
> 
> any feedback on the enigma amp for using it with susvara, there is no info or reviews on it
> 
> any comparisons other totl amps within 4-6k price range, such as comparing it to enleum or auris nirvana


I made the decision to discontinue the Enigma years ago. The various Milo combinations that sold for less made the Enigma obsolete. If a customer really wanted an Enigma I can build it as it is just a variation of a Headtrip.


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## Sound Eq

The Piper said:


> I made the decision to discontinue the Enigma years ago. The various Milo combinations that sold for less made the Enigma obsolete. If a customer really wanted an Enigma I can build it as it is just a variation of a Headtrip.


thanks, I read that headtrip level 2 is amazing with susvara, but that is out of the budget for some, an amp within 4k range which can drive sus with ease would be a gem to find.


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## David222

SunRa Fan said:


> I'm considering getting a Milo, but from my reading, the base model is not a good pair for sensitive cans(Focal Clear MG and Meze 99 classics).  Can anyone comment on which mods to the Milo would best allow me to continue enjoying my Focals?  Also, can anyone tell me what Wells Audio's return policy is if I purchase one but wind up wanting to return it after an audition?  I can't find any info about this on their website.



@SunRa Fan 

I just got my system back online - after a couple months down due to a home construction project.  Jeff built this Milo out for me in September - heavily modified with *1)* External PSU, *2)* Goldpoint Stepped Attenuator and *3) *Bybee Filters. 

Similar to you, I want to use Grados and Focal with the Milo. 

So far my ZMFs sound excellent, however, my Grado and Focal are totally unusable, there is significant noise floor / and I fear they will likely clip and have stopped testing. 

I see Zachik notes in  post above a "Gain Cut Circuit (High / Low)" --> I'll give Jeff a shout this week and see if I can learn more about this.  I'm a bit surprised why if this functionality exists that It was never mentioned to me when the other investments were made to get my Milo "grado" capable.  Perhaps it is a very recent development as of November ?? 

Jeff was very kind in his guidance / thinking through my Milo build-out - so hopefully I can quickly sort out the high/low gain switch optionality this week and accomplish what I originally set out to do here.


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## Zachik

David222 said:


> I see Zachik notes in post above a "Gain Cut Circuit (High / Low)" --> I'll give Jeff a shout this week and see if I can learn more about this. I'm a bit surprised why if this functionality exists that It was never mentioned to me when the other investments were made to get my Milo "grado" capable. Perhaps it is a very recent development as of November ??


I tested my Milo with my most sensitive headphones in my collection, the Sennheiser HD569 (23 Ω / 115 dB) and even with the gain cut circuit - noise floor is audible.
The Milo is not a good match for very sensitive headphones, but it is amazing with planars and with less-sensitive dynamic headphones!


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## David222

Zachik said:


> I tested my Milo with my most sensitive headphones in my collection, the Sennheiser HD569 (23 Ω / 115 dB) and even with the gain cut circuit - noise floor is audible.
> The Milo is not a good match for very sensitive headphones, but it is amazing with planars and with less-sensitive dynamic headphones!



Well if what you say is true regarding the gain cut - I don't get why I was told my Grados (and Focal) would be perfectly fine with the "new LPS" and the Goldpoint.  That was the entire point of my investment, which was a decent amount of money.  I could not have been more upfront with what I was seeking (before any time/money was exchanged by either party). 

I'll give Jeff a shout tomorrow - he's been very generous with his time and I've genuinely enjoyed getting to know him a bit - hopefully we get this quickly sorted out. 

I'll follow up on this thread from there.


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## SunRa Fan

A Violectric V222 I had previously ordered and then cancelled showed up on my doorstep anyway and I decided to keep it and so I'm putting my interest in the Milo aside for now.  I'm sad to hear that even with the newer mods, the Milo still has a high noise floor out in the wild.


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## David222 (Dec 21, 2022)

SunRa Fan said:


> A Violectric V222 I had previously ordered and then cancelled showed up on my doorstep anyway and I decided to keep it and so I'm putting my interest in the Milo aside for now.  I'm sad to hear that even with the newer mods, the Milo still has a high noise floor out in the wild.



For whatever it's worth, I can tell you that my Milo (easily) bested my Violectric v280 (FE) in shootout.  I've spent three consecutive nights to ~1am with the Milo and my ZMFs exclusively.  The performance of the Milo with high(er) impedance headphones is truly amazing.  There is not any audible noise floor with the LPS and Goldpoint. Everything is pitch black (in my chain).




David222 said:


> @SunRa Fan
> 
> I just got my system back online - after a couple months down due to a home construction project.  Jeff built this Milo out for me in September - heavily modified with *1)* External PSU, *2)* Goldpoint Stepped Attenuator and *3) *Bybee Filters.
> 
> ...





David222 said:


> Jeff was very kind in his guidance / thinking through my Milo build-out - so hopefully I can quickly sort out the high/low gain switch optionality this week and accomplish what I originally set out to do here.




Just closing the loop on my previous post - perhaps this information is helpful to others researching or considering further investment/upgrades.

*1)* Jeff continues to be highly responsive, always kind to speak with and fully invested in working through stuff.  I've learned a lot in speaking with him.

*2)* The  noise floor issue appears to be related to certain DACs (more so than others) and ONLY occurs with easy to drive headphones (Grado, Focal, etc.).   My ZMFs are dead silent / black back drop.

Going to continuing pushing to see if possible to crack the "Grado nut" with the Milo...  appreciate all of @Zachik inputs/guidance as well.  At the end of the day, I'm not sure any amplifier can cater to every headphone in any one collection.

The Milo + ZMFs is the most "there" I've heard my Aeolus/Auteur thus far.  The resolution, separation, dynamics and staging are fantastic - the overall timbre/flow is the best I've heard from solid state - the Milo truly transports you into the music.  

Really fun stuff.


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## Kiats

The Piper said:


> The Goldpoint stepped volume control is regarded by many audiophiles to be the best sounding volume control in the world. We have also discovered that the occasional pops when changing volume with the Khozmo stepped attenuator (was due to spurious impedance changes) is gone.


I am looking at picking up a Milo with the Khozmo and Vishay upgrades. I was told that the volume pot is "noisy". How loud are the pops or clicks? 

I intend to use the Milo really for my planars, as I have other amps for the more sensitive dynamic HPs. Hence, the noise floor issue is not something I am overly concerned about.


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## Astral Abyss

Kiats said:


> I am looking at picking up a Milo with the Khozmo and Vishay upgrades. I was told that the volume pot is "noisy". How loud are the pops or clicks?
> 
> I intend to use the Milo really for my planars, as I have other amps for the more sensitive dynamic HPs. Hence, the noise floor issue is not something I am overly concerned about.


Mine doesn't make any noise at all and I have that exact model.


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## Kiats (Dec 28, 2022)

Astral Abyss said:


> Mine doesn't make any noise at all and I have that exact model.



Thanks for your post @Astral Abyss . I listened to it earlier and at most I would say is there might be very faint static when I turn the volume pot. I do like the tactile feel of the volume pot. @The Piper : Very nice amp! I do like the sonics and of course the effortless way in which it drives the Susvara. Look forward to the rest of my planers enjoying the pairing.

The photo below was when taking it out for a spin. Using the Luxury & Precison LP6 Ti 7th Anniversary Edition as source. At home I am running out of my old faithful, the Bricasti M1. 

Big shout out to Jeremy of AV One for his unstinting support and ceaseless patience.


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## Astral Abyss

Kiats said:


> Thanks for your post @Astral Abyss . I listened to it earlier and at most I would say is there might be very faint static when I turn the volume pot. I do like the tactile feel of the volume pot. @The Piper : Very nice amp! I do like the sonics and of course the effortless way in which it drives the Susvara. Look forward to the rest of my planers enjoying the pairing.
> 
> The photo below was when taking it out for a spin. Using the Luxury & Precison LP6 Ti 7th Anniversary Edition as source. At home I am running out of my old faithful, the Bricasti M1.
> 
> Big shout out to Jeremy of AV One for his unstinting support and ceaseless patience.



I wonder if it comes down to the output voltage from the source DAC and possibly the input sensitivity of the headphones?


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## Kiats

Astral Abyss said:


> I wonder if it comes down to the output voltage from the source DAC and possibly the input sensitivity of the headphones?


I recall the discussion was in respect of the noise floor in the case of sensitive headphones. It does not bother me cos I have other amps for sensitive headphones. 

As for the output voltage from DAC, perhaps. What I will say is that the Bricasti M1 DAC seems to play very nicely with amps. 

This morning I am listening to the MySphere 3.2 which is one of those headphones which is not so easy to work with. But seems to work very well with the Milo.


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## David222

Another wonderful evening with the Milo.  Pitch black background using the custom LPS, Goldpoint v47 and Bybee Filters. 

The overall timbre and "flow" this SS Amp achieves _(sans tubes) _ is incredible    The micro-details, instrument separation and dynamics are equally excellent. Very fun.


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