# RME ADI-2 DAC Thread



## NickedWicked (Dec 21, 2017)

*




*

*Summary: *

High-End DA Conversion
1 x SPDIF Input coaxial

1 x ADAT or SPDIF Input optical

1 x RCA Analog Stereo Output unbalanced

1 x XLR Analog Stereo Output balanced

1 x “Extreme Power“ Headphone Output

1 x “Super Low Noise" IEM Output

High-resolution IPS display

CC Mode (Class Compliant)

SteadyClock FS

1 x USB 2.0 (USB 3.0 compatible)
Includes remote control

*The DAC*
Packed into the compact half 19” format factor, this little gem is filled with the finest high-end electronics, offering a reference class conversion from SPDIF coaxial, SPDIF optical (ADAT compatible) and USB to RCA, XLR, TRS and mini-TRS.

As the most versatile DAC available, the ADI-2 DAC offers balanced/unbalanced analog outputs, an Extreme Power headphone output, a super low noise IEM output, SteadyClock FS, 4-stage hardware output level control, DSP-based signal processing, external power supply operation, Class Compliant USB compatibility and sample rates up to 768 kHz as well as DSD and Direct DSD playback. The SPDIF input signal can even be recorded via USB - as one would expect from RME the DAC is a true 2 channel Full Duplex audio interface.

*Improving DA*
With the DAC RME engineers took the opportunity to slightly enhance the DAC's analog output stage to be even more perfect as it already was. More relays, a different double symmetrical attenuator circuit and one additional buffer OP amp succeed in less noise and less THD. As the DAC-chip is the limiting factor here this is hard to measure, but nevertheless an important improvement, especially at lower hardware output levels typical for Cinch/RCA usage. The new hardware reference levels of +13 dBu, +7 dBu, +1 dBu and -5 dBu also add to this.

*Super Low Noise for IEM lovers *
The headphone revolution not only brought headphones but also IEMs (in ear monitors) back into the attention of audiophiles and music lovers. Modern IEMs have a reference sound that easily competes with bulky over-ear headphones, making them not only a mobile alternative, but also an interesting solution in home.

Modern IEMs are extremely sensitive and operate on very low voltages. As a side effect they uncover the noise floor of the player, DAC or headphone amp. When RME developed its Extreme Power headphone stage the basic noise floor was taken care to be as low as possible. Which was then confirmed in many reviews (most black background…). Even when used with IEMs.

Still RME wanted to make sure that even the most sensitive IEM combined with the most sensitive listener receive the full dynamic range on playback. Also capable outputs like the Extreme Power ones are not fully safe against operating errors and might blow up ears or IEMs.

RME's solution: adding the most advanced IEM output imaginable as second phones connection to the front of the ADI-2 DAC. Its ground noise floor is an astounding 10 dB lower than the one of the Extreme Power output (black hole background…), output impedance is near zero Ohms, THD reaches new record lows, click-free on/off is included as well as volume ramp-up, and the sound quality with any IEM is just amazing. We're sure you will love it!

* SteadyClock FS *
The ADI-2 DAC is the first device in RME's range with SteadyClock FS. There is not much to improve with SteadyClock, it has earned its accolades over years of flawless operation in numerous RME devices, guaranteeing that using the internal clock will produce exactly the same sound as when using an external one.

SteadyClock highly rejects jitter and handles all digital interface formats in an exemplary way. That's why SteadyClock's design and behavior didn't change in the DAC.

With SteadyClock FS the focus was put on reducing the self jitter of SteadyClock to new lows, by improving its second, analog PLL circuit, and referencing both Direct Digital Synthesis and PLL to a low phase noise quartz crystal.

The self jitter measured through DA conversion now reaches levels that usually are only available in master quartz clock mode, while SteadyClock still always runs in PLL mode - no matter if internal or external clock, sound is exactly the same (again).

The low phase noise oscillator driving the updated circuit reaches jitter specs lower than a picosecond (ps), an area called FemtoSecond. Hence SteadyClock FS.

*A better Remote *
The ADI-2 DAC comes with a remote that is not the usual cheap add-on. This nicely designed remote control has clearly labeled buttons, readable even in low light conditions without reading glasses, a nicely laid out button arrangement that is easy to remember, and perfect button ergonomics. Plus: It won't interfere with your ATV or other devices.

The DAC remote offers buttons for Standby On/Off, Volume, input selection (Optical, Coaxial, USB) and Mute. Four programmable buttons are added that can be assigned with 20 different functions and commands for total flexibility. There is no other DAC or similar unit with such a sophisticated, easy to use and versatile remote functionality!

* Final Chord *
The ADI-2 DAC includes an improved SteadyClock, a fine-tuned to perfection analog circuitry, remote control, Extreme Power headphone output and a very special IEM output.

It has all the bells and whistles that made the ADI-2 Pro famous, including its perfectly transparent sound signature and full DSP processing with Bass, Treble, Loudness, 5 Band Parametric EQ, Crossfeed and much more.

With its simplified operation and stunning design it is the ideal center piece from home listening up to studio reference playback.


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## DrizztDo

Do you know if the analog output bypass the volume pot now ? If I remember correclty it wasn't possible on the ADI-2 PRO.


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## RudeWolf

The volume is digitally adjusted, hence you bypass it by going to +0dB or whatever's the level your amp likes the best.


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## Luckbad

Looks like this is starting to ship. I should have one tomorrow from ZenPro Audio (never used them before. Will update here if I run into any issues from them, but I had a nice phone chat with the owner before placing an order to ensure they were actually in stock).


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## rschoi75

^ I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this sounds.


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## Luckbad

Stream of Consciousness Day 1

DA Filter options including FR curves and impulse responses to show you what they do (in the manual). I _might_prefer "Slow," even over NOS.
Crossfeed works on line out, not just headphone outputs
You can diagnose your USB! Super useful for peace of mind. USB diagnosis field right in the MADIface driver control panel. Bit Test will tell you if anything went wrong when you playback their super quick test files.
The best manual I've ever seen for any hi-fi product. OMG I love reading it. They also give you a nice glossy-paper ringed manual with it. Something fun to thumb through while listening.
Exceptionally clean, even from USB.
Built-in 5 band parametric equalizer that shows you exactly what it's doing. Has 20 slots to save and the ability to instantly recall previous settings (back and forth) to listen for changes.
Nice remote with programmable buttons.
Independent settings for line out, HP out, and IEM out for volume, crossfeed, etc. It automatically mutes the line out (you can change that) and recalls the volume of the appropriate output. Also quickly ramps volume up, but takes long enough that you can change the volume or take off your headphones if you're about to deafen yourself
9 Setups that you can save (and factory default) and recall. You can set and save every setting on the thing apart from EQ, then program these to the 4 programmable remote buttons to very easily swap between settings. Do I prefer the Slow filter with a bit of Crossfeed or SD Sharp with no Crossfeed? One button, boom.
Display settings can be changed to have a dark background instead of the default light. You can swap the default state screen between State Overview (cool stats), a really nice FR spectrum display, or a simple display that shows volume and basic output info. You can also turn on auto-dark to turn off the display 10 seconds after you adjust something on the unit (3 seconds if you change something via the remote).
I'm liking this more than any DS DAC I can remember. Could be because it's paired with better gear otherwise.
As a transportable unit, this thing is unbelievably good. You can run it off a battery pack (not included) if you need to use it in a portable situation. Doesn't need a nice power supply because it cleans everything up internally.
This is probably the best single unit setup I can imagine for using at the office. It's compact, cleans up USB, cleans up power, works with full-size cans and IEMs, and doesn't look garish at all.
For PRT fans, you can invert phase of both or either channel on the unit instead of doing it in software. The DSP is before the DAC, so the DAC and anything its connected to should benefit from the Phase Reversal Trick.
A feature I won't use but that would be great for some is that you can record S/PDIF (coax, optical, or AES with an adapter) into the USB. I think this means you could use a CD player to record stuff? I dunno. Might be useful for some guitar FX units.
Neat feature: The faster you turn a knob, the bigger steps the value takes. One notch, when turned slowly, is 0.5dB of volume. Turn it fast, and one notch is several dB.
The headphone output on this is quite a bit better than I was anticipating. Better than most solid state amps I've used. It's a shame that the size of the unit doesn't allow for an XLR output since the DAC is balanced. Maybe in a v2 in a few years, they can relocate the power button and squeeze a balanced headphone out in.
The intelligent Loudness function is pretty slick. Basically, you set the bass and treble gain levels of the loudness feature, then set the minimum volume at which it reaches those boosts. As you approach the threshold, it interpolates how much boost is needed to retain some punch and sparkle even at lower volumes.
Bug: If you rapidly swap between coax and USB inputs (for me, that means swapping inputs every couple of seconds to compare their sound), after several swaps the USB goes into robotic music through spring-loaded tin cans mode. I think that means it loses sync with the clock (it uses the internal clock for USB and slaves to external input via coax). If I go back to coax for a couple of seconds then back to USB, it corrects itself (as does stopping/starting the music).
Quirk: It seems to present itself as a different device to Windows for every sample rate. I noticed because switching to a 96kHz album from 44.1 suddenly started piping the Overwatch League game I was watching through the ADI-2 DAC because Windows always makes new devices the default (simultaneously with JRiver ASIO, so kinda cool that it can do that). Checking my playback devices showed that it didn't have the custom icon (RME logo) or name I gave the device, then I noticed that 96kHz was the only sample rate shown. Sure enough, it does this once for each supported sample rate (then Windows remembers your settings for that SR from then on). Doesn't seem to do it for DSD.
Speaking of DSD... you can do direct DSD via line outs only since you're not allowed to manipulate the volume. It silences the headphone outs if you turn on DSD Direct. I believe it converts DSD to PCM internally if you leave it off, which is default.
The menus recall where you last were when you go back to them. The screen is nice and crisp on the unit and menu navigation and manipulation is really nice after you acclimate to it.
In addition to the parametric EQ, you have bass/treble knobs. You can define the cutoff frequency and Q factor.
I love the integration of some of the old school things like Loudness, Bass/Treble, EQ, and balance controls brought up to modern spec. It's like an homage to old receivers, but reimagined as alien technology.
The USB on this thing really is pretty stellar. It's at least in the same playing field as Schiit Gen 5. I'm pretty sure I still prefer the Lynx AES16e feeding it AES via coax, but it's good enough to not get too much nervosa over using it.
I'm a little bit in love with this thing right now. It's not just the honeymoon period, it's the wedding night.
The tech on the ADI-2 DAC is astonishingly good. It's so freakin' versatile.


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## davveswe

What dac chip does it use?


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## Collusion[FIN] (Jan 13, 2018)

davveswe said:


> What dac chip does it use?



AKM AK4490, or at least the Pro version does. Would be surpised if they've changed the chip for this model.

Very interested in your impressions on sound quality Luckbad!


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## lowvolume (Jan 13, 2018)

Luckbad said:


> Stream of Consciousness Day 1
> 
> Quirk: It seems to present itself as a different device to Windows for every sample rate. I noticed because switching to a 96kHz album from 44.1 suddenly started piping the Overwatch League game I was watching through the ADI-2 DAC because Windows always makes new devices the default (simultaneously with JRiver ASIO, so kinda cool that it can do that). Checking my playback devices showed that it didn't have the custom icon (RME logo) or name I gave the device, then I noticed that 96kHz was the only sample rate shown. Sure enough, it does this once for each supported sample rate (then Windows remembers your settings for that SR from then on). Doesn't seem to do it for DSD.



As a long-time RME user I think I can explain this. It's not really a quirk, and it also is not the unit - it is the Windows driver, and the behavior is intentional. Every time you change the sample rate the driver removes all its WDM devices and installs new WDM devices that support (only) the new sample rate. Therefore you can not change the sample rate while using WDM with whatever software running in the background - desaster guaranteed.

This scheme had been introduced by Echo (as far as I know) and has been taken over by some other companies as well. It is a workaround for the sample rate control no longer possible from the record/playback app (since Vista, IMHO). It is unavoidable for multichannel and fully ASIO/WDM multiclient devices. Should also be mentioned in the manual.

Windows stores the current Speaker configuration (2 stereo to 8 channel surround device) per device and per sample rate. So drivers that do not use this trick will have only one Speaker configuration, while RME's will have one per sample rate.

Now the new DAC does only have 2 channels, so in my opinion a different scheme would be possible. But it uses the MADIface series driver, which happens to work this way. Changing that you would also loose the ability to use the DAC together with whatever other interface of RME's range supported by this MADIface series driver, and that's quite a lot.


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## Luckbad

Oh man, I'm _loving _this sub-$2000 setup.





[$250] Garage1217 Project Sunrise III
[$40] atomicbob Noise Nuke
[$1000] RME ADI-2 DAC
[$600] Audeze LCD2 Classic
OR [$200-$400] Sennheiser HD6XX/HD650
It's exceptionally clean while still alluringly musical. You can go from über clean solid-sate using the ADI-2 DAC's headphone output to added tube magic with the Project Sunrise III.

I'm using the Jan Meier crossfeed setting on the DAC as well as inverting the phase on the right channel for the Phase Reversal Trick (PRT not pictured; I swapped to the HD650 with XLR a few minutes ago).

The USB input on the ADI-2 DAC is very good. While I slightly prefer using the Lynx AES16e with it, it's really unnecessary for all practical purposes (no digitus, it's just a bit less delineated and deft with the "micro"-stuff).

The power--despite involving _two _switched-mode power supplies--is tremendously clean. The Noise Nuke is virtually as good as a linear power supply with the G2127 amp to my ears, and the internal power section of the ADI-2 DAC cleans up the power you feed it.

Noise floor is dead silence. I can max out the volume on the ADI-2 DAC and the Project Sunrise III and hear nothing without music playing on Audeze LCD2 Classics.

Engage Loudness on the ADI-2 DAC and you can knock the volume way down while working on something that demands focus without losing bass impact and treble sparkle.

For all but the absolute best recordings, this setup is as good with the Project Sunrise III as it is with the Cavalli Liquid Crimson (which pulls ahead on the most demanding music).


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## lowvolume (Jan 14, 2018)

Nice report again! Would you mind to explain the Phase Reversal Trick (PRT)? I must have missed this as it doesn't tell me anything.


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## occamsrazor

Thanks for the reports.... I'm about to order one of these too so your impressions are very welcome. Though I plan to use it as a DAC/Pre with speakers.


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## Luckbad (Jan 14, 2018)

lowvolume said:


> Nice report again! Would you mind to explain the Phase Reversal Trick (PRT)? I must have missed this as it doesn't tell me anything.



@johnjen could explain it best.

@Torq created a thread elsewhere that explains it well including how to execute on it. To quote him:


			
				Torq said:
			
		

> In short, the idea is to more efficiently and completely utilize the full power capacity of an amplifier, and the available rail-to-rail potential difference/swing, by driving left and right channels in opposite phase/polarity within the DAC/amplifier, and then correcting phase/polarity before getting to the headphone (we do it in the headphone cable, with a simple adapter).
> 
> In theory, driving the channels in offset like this will cause less sag against each rail and draw current from both of them independently, rather than in a common mode. At headphone power levels, the relative power demand differences are not going to be huge, but then we’re not dealing with very much available power to begin with.



The ADI-2 DAC makes it very easy to reverse the phase of one channel, and it does it in DSP before the digital to analog conversion, conferring the full benefits of PRT.


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## lowvolume

Understand. But I don't think it makes sense to apply such an old school trick on a serious, professional year 2017 unit. Not only that the power supply is fully stable at any load and any volume (proof: the exceptional low THD under load like 16 Ohms), crosstalk is exceptional under load as well. And: RME uses multiple OPA1688 in their headphone output stage, which is a so called rail-to-rail op-amp. No way to get more out of it. You could save yourself the cable hassle...


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## Luckbad

The PRT is really for my amplifier that comes after the ADI-2 DAC, not the ADI-2 DAC itself.


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## cardeli22

Luckbad said:


> Stream of Consciousness Day 1
> 
> DA Filter options including FR curves and impulse responses to show you what they do (in the manual). I _might_prefer "Slow," even over NOS.
> Crossfeed works on line out, not just headphone outputs
> ...


I guess they saved the balanced out for the Pro version. Thanks for the quick impressions. I definitely have my eye on this. Looks a lot like the ADI- 2 Pro Anniversary edition minus the see through top, some extra features and the almost double the price tag.


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## lowvolume

Luckbad said:


> The PRT is really for my amplifier that comes after the ADI-2 DAC, not the ADI-2 DAC itself.


Ok, in that case the single channel phase option seems to be really useful


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## Luckbad (Jan 17, 2018)

*Day 2 Stream of Consciousness*

The USB input on the ADI-2 DAC is very good. While I slightly prefer using the Lynx AES16e with it, it's really unnecessary for all practical purposes (no digitus, it's just a bit less delineated and deft with the "micro"-stuff).
USB Nervosa, Solved? This has to be the most reassuring component of any USB driver I've ever used:



 

Combined with the Bit Test on the unit that tells me that indeed the bits I'm sending are bitperfect:


 

The headphone out on this thing is surprisingly good. Unlike some DAC's that happen to have a headphone output that I've used, this does not sound at all like an afterthought. I have it in Hi-Power mode and it works very well with the Audeze LCD2Cs and more than adequately with the Sennheiser HD650s.
I'm using the Jan Meier crossfeed setting as well as inverting the phase on the right channel for the Phase Reversal Trick
I still haven't fully settled on a DAC filter. SD Slow, Slow, and NOS are are getting some head time.
The noise floor is dead silence. I can max out the volume on the ADI-2 DAC and the Project Sunrise III or Liquid Crimson and hear nothing without music playing on Audeze LCD2 Classics.

While I've seen no confirmation that this uses the AK4490, I can't imagine they managed to get the AK4497 in there yet, and the specs largely match the ADI-2 Pro (which uses the AK4490). It also has the right number of filters (4497 has 6), does DSD256 instead of DSD512, etc.
I've decided that I like the Loudness function. It'll eventually be one of the main reasons I store Setups (the Loudness floor needs to be different for different headphones and music software). I have it set fairly low both in amplitude and minimum volume required to kick in, but it's nice as I frequently listen at very low volumes.
I wish the remote could be programmed with a couple more options. DAC Filter cycling would be nice for testing. I'd also like to be able to assign a button to scroll through the main Meter Screens (the default screen). The only way to do that is press encoder button 1 or 2.
Is it as organic and "right" sounding as a really good R-2R DAC? No, not really. But, it's so versatile and appeals way too much to my desire to tweak things I'm currently willing to make that sacrifice. I was looking for black Gumby before, but I'm not right now. Maybe something will strike my fancy again one day (it will) and this will end up as my work unit.
Speaking of work... I mentioned this once already, but this _the _ideal work combo unit for me. Your USB and power can suck and it'll still work great. It's small an unassuming enough to sit quietly off to the side without drawing too much attention. And it works with IEMs. Probably. I still haven't tried anyway with it (okay fine, I just tried some right now and there's no hiss. My G10s are at work). Now I'll need to get myself a second one later in the year just for work...
Here's an image from some AKM/Teac AK4490 marketing material that is sure to taint your confirmation bias:


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## Luckbad

Couple notes...

I find myself migrating to the Short Delay Slow filter most of the time. No particular reasons I can enunciate other than "it sounds good to me."
I've started transporting it in a carrying case to work daily because I miss it when I don't have it around.
It's been great with my Future Sonics Spectrum G10 IEMs.
I mentioned that I often use Crossfeed and Loudness. I only use Loudness when I listen at low volume (I just turn it all the way off otherwise). Crossfeed I do tend to use with LCD2Cs but generally not with HD650s.
I've been trying to decide if I hear any clear differences between its USB alone and having a Schiit Wyrd in front of it. Maybe the Wyrd combo sounds a little more clinical? Probably in my head. I'm just leaving the Wyrd out of the chain because it seems unneeded.
I picked up a Chanzon 12V 5A power adapter for work so I can disconnect the power at home and transport the unit alone. It's been working great for me so far and is actually UL listed unlike a lot of the PSUs I saw on Amazon.
The optical input is even surprisingly good coming straight out of my motherboard. Magical jitter correction or some such.


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## occamsrazor

Just a new video...


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## Malcolm Riverside

Luckbad said:


> Couple notes...
> 
> I find myself migrating to the Short Delay Slow filter most of the time. No particular reasons I can enunciate other than "it sounds good to me."
> I've started transporting it in a carrying case to work daily because I miss it when I don't have it around.
> ...


I really appreciate the super informative write-ups of this product. It’s so new there’s hardly any info about it online, plus RME seems to fly under the radar in the audiophile community—though this dac might change that. Do you think it’s worth the investment if it’s going to be used mainly as a standalone dac? I got an SPL Phonitor 2 headphone amp recently and suspect this would make a great pairing with it, but wonder if I wouldn’t be wasting some money given how much of the cost is going towards the bad-ass headphone amp in the Adi-2.


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## nazrin313

Yeah would really love to know too, interested in the performance of this DAC especially comparing in  it with similar DACs of its price point. Interested in this or the QUtest..


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## SilverEars (Jan 26, 2018)

Anybody know if the difference between this one and the pro is non-pro does not include A to D section?  Is that all?  I can live with that for half the price.

Interesting that the DAC has an headphone out as well.

Edit: The pro has two headphone outs for balanced mode.  I guessing twice the power if using both.


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## Luckbad

Malcolm Riverside said:


> I really appreciate the super informative write-ups of this product. It’s so new there’s hardly any info about it online, plus RME seems to fly under the radar in the audiophile community—though this dac might change that. Do you think it’s worth the investment if it’s going to be used mainly as a standalone dac? I got an SPL Phonitor 2 headphone amp recently and suspect this would make a great pairing with it, but wonder if I wouldn’t be wasting some money given how much of the cost is going towards the bad-ass headphone amp in the Adi-2.



I use it primarily as a standalone DAC myself. The headphone amp is good, but definitely not top of the line compared to audiophile offerings.

At home, it's hooked up to my Cavalli Liquid Crimson. At work, it's either connected to my Garage1217 Project Sunrise III or I just use its IEM output by itself.



SilverEars said:


> Anybody know if the difference between this one and the pro is non-pro does not include A to D section?  Is that all?  I can live with that for half the price.
> 
> Interesting that the DAC has an headphone out as well.
> 
> Edit: The pro has two headphone outs for balanced mode.  I guessing twice the power if using both.



If you don't need the ADC, you're better off with the ADI-2 DAC than Pro in my opinion.

You can spend the money saved on a better amp than what's inside and the ADI-2 DAC is slightly better as a standalone DAC than the Pro (read their mega manuals and specs).

What's a better amp that costs less than the difference, you ask? Depends on your headphones and preferences, but for me I'd prefer these to the integrated headphone out:

The aforementioned Garage1217 Project Sunrise III (or Horizon) with a nice linear power supply or atomicbob Noise Nuke.
Schiit Jotunheim with or without a Saga
Probably a bunch of others


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## Luckbad

I finally got around to compiling my thoughts as an RME ADI-2 DAC Review on Basshead.Club.


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## lowvolume

Sorry that I am a bit disappointed with that. I thought you use the opportunity to edit your review a bit, but it seems just copy and paste from the stuff published here before.

Reading it again I noticed a statement that might need explanation:



> The headphone output on this is quite a bit better than I was anticipating. Better than most solid state amps I've used. It's a shame that the size of the unit doesn't allow for an XLR output since the DAC is balanced. Maybe in a v2 in a few years, they can relocate the power button and squeeze a balanced headphone out in.



This sounds like balanced is already there and just needs the correct output socket - which can't be further from the truth. For a balanced headphone output you don't need 2 headphone output stages (stereo), but 4 (2 x stereo). That's why the Pro can do it, it has two complete stereo Extreme Power outputs. The DAC has only one. For offering balanced again they would need to go back to the Pro concept, and I am quite sure that removing one Extreme Power stereo output was intentional to meet the current price point...


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## Luckbad (Jan 27, 2018)

@lowvolume It is mostly the impressions I posted here compiled into one place. I wrote them on my website then copied them over here.

If you've read this entire thread, you already know everything I think about the ADI-2 DAC. It's more for folks who want one place to read them all.

Thanks for pointing that out on the balanced out. I'll update that point. I was thinking of it more as a convenience feature rather than a higher power output.

I'll be editing the review here and there throughout the weekend, but it won't be anything groundbreaking. I've already explored all the ADI-2 DAC has to offer and have formulated my impressions of it.


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## oldson

Luckbad said:


> I finally got around to compiling my thoughts as an RME ADI-2 DAC Review on Basshead.Club.



maybe you should start a thread on DIYAH also?


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## oldson

i see no mention of the dsd rate anywhere?


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## Luckbad

DSD256


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## NickedWicked (Jan 27, 2018)

Too bad they tosses balanced mode, I thought I read somewhere they beefed up the extreme power output though.

Might pick it up to hear it alongside it’s older brother after I’m done with comparisons between the ADI-2 Pro, Mytek Brooklyn+, Hugo 2 and Benchmark DAC3 HGC.

Needless to say the headamp on the ADI is quite impressive and meets itself with pretty much all 1 or even 2k stand-alone giants with some very slight detail missing here and there.


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## chungjun

Will be interested to read what your impressions are comparing these DAC giants... would be interesting also to know which is a keeper, if you have no other choice but to keep only one of them.

Do share your impressions here when you have the chance.



NickedWicked said:


> Might pick it up to hear it alongside it’s older brother after I’m done with comparisons between the ADI-2 Pro, Mytek Brooklyn+, Hugo 2 and Benchmark DAC3 HGC.


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## Malcolm Riverside

Anybody know where you can get one of these things delivered quickly? Seems like they’re not available until February or March on zenproaudio.com and www.thomannmusic.com.


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## cardeli22

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Anybody know where you can get one of these things delivered quickly? Seems like they’re not available until February or March on zenproaudio.com and www.thomannmusic.com.


I was wondering the same thing.


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## Luckbad

You could ping Synthax, which is the US distributor: http://www.synthax.com/index.php/contact.html


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## imblub

Can anyone comment on how the crossfeed implementation on this compares to other DAC/amps that do crossfeed like Soekris stuff, SPL Phonitors, or even just dsp?


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## NickedWicked

chungjun said:


> Will be interested to read what your impressions are comparing these DAC giants... would be interesting also to know which is a keeper, if you have no other choice but to keep only one of them.
> 
> Do share your impressions here when you have the chance.



Will do! Got the Brooklyn+ as well as the ADI-2 Pro at the moment, the week I've spend with them so far the Brooklyn+ seems the warmer of the 2, very musical as well, there is slightly more microdetail too compared to the ADI-2 Pro. Although there is a somewhat fuzzy sound going on, most likely the power supply that's just not cutting it.

Although the Pro sounds a quite a bit cleaner and a more balanced sound. Not surprising since the power gets filtered through a battery as well as a near flawless USB implementation. It seems there are ways to improve the Brooklyn further such as a linear power supply as well as a good USB reclocker and if you want some customization like the ADI-2 Pro you're gonna need a Schiit Loki as well, but I think that would put the price well over 3000 euro, compared to a mere 1400 euro for the ADI-2 Pro.

Of course the Brooklyn has things like MQA, Apple remote and a phono preamp and slightly more juice, 4-ish watts on the Pro vs 6 watts but then again the Pro has a very nice ADC and a lot of stuff for monitoring. It's just a extremely well thought out and executed amp/dac in general. 

I would give the cake to the ADI-2 Pro so far, bit of a no brainer really comparing the prices, both are very feature rich, but if you want some upgradeability the Brooklyn+ might be a better choice as there seems to be a lot of undiscovered potential but then again spend a little more and you got yourself a Manhatten 2 which is most likely in a somewhat different ballpark. 

This has been tested with a brand new burned in LCD-X CE as well as a HD 650 which got about 300 hours on it, I will try to get my hands on a Focal Clear this week. 

I will probably return the Brooklyn+ end of this week but I still need to try some things. Next up is the Chord Hugo 2 and from what I've heard here on HF it seems to be pretty close to the ADI-2 Pro, although the sound signature will differentiate quite a bit.


----------



## lowvolume

First firmware update for the RME DAC:

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=26630


----------



## chungjun

Thanks for sharing... don't let irrelevant stuffs like work and real life slows you down here. Hahaa! Rather interested to read about your impression compared to Benchmark DAC3. 



NickedWicked said:


> Next up is the Chord Hugo 2 and from what I've heard here on HF it seems to be pretty close to the ADI-2 Pro, although the sound signature will differentiate quite a bit.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Luckbad said:


> You could ping Synthax, which is the US distributor: http://www.synthax.com/index.php/contact.html


Thanks for the tip! Here’s the response I got:
“Thanks for your interest! The ADI-2 DAC has just begun shipping and we are out of stock until the next delivery in February. I don't know about Amazon but US dealers should have stock in a month or so. Sorry for the delay.”

Thanks,
Jeff Petersen
Product Specialist
Synthax Inc.


----------



## NickedWicked

Pretty certain the DAC chip is still a AKM 4490, I wish they would've delayed the DAC version just a few months to implement the AKM 4493. Would've made more sense as it is more HIFI oriented amp/DAC from RME. The upgrades should be relatively substantial as is but still...


----------



## lowvolume

AKM announced the 4493 in December 2017. The DAC was obviously already in production at that time (first units were shipped in December, as can be read here and elsewhere). Your proposal would have caused the unit to be available not before June 2018. Yes, these times manufacturing has a long pre-phase, and that's a global problem. Also note the 4493 is not pin compatible. So the price of the DAC would have been higher, as everything around the PCB and even the programming would have to be made new, rasing the development costs and with it the sales price.

And then - for what? I am pretty sure that the DAC has the better analog output stages than upcoming alternatives. They won't beat the DAC. They could offer DSD512 and another filter to play with, but the first is useless, and the second not a life saver either...


----------



## cardeli22

Jeff from Syntax gave me a similar response:
Sorry for the delayed reply, we were at the NAMM Show last week and still catching up.
We are currently out of stock in the US, but expecting our next delivery towards the end of February. Reseller orders will be fulfilled first come, first serve.
So far, ZenPro Audio has been stocking, but selling through the units quickly.

Can't wait for them to be back in stock.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

These are in stock from a couple of dealers online now. Somehow just managed to snag one from a dealer on eBay for a really good price. Can’t wait to get my hands on it! I’m counting on the sound quality and multitude of features to cure me of my recent bout of upgrade-itis.


----------



## cardeli22 (Feb 8, 2018)

Malcolm Riverside said:


> These are in stock from a couple of dealers online now. Somehow just managed to snag one from a dealer on eBay for a really good price. Can’t wait to get my hands on it! I’m counting on the sound quality and multitude of features to cure me of my recent bout of upgrade-itis.


I understand there is no cure, only very expensive treatments.


----------



## kundica

Pre-ordered mine this morning. Looks like it'll be the end of the month before they arrive/ship. Can't wait!

FYI, Sweetwater is listing it but when I called to inquire about stock arrival I was told it will probably be April.


----------



## Luckbad

With my sister in town, I've been pushed out of the computer room and have been exclusively using the RME ADI-2 DAC as my DAC/Amp directly from my phone.

The amplifier is far more capable than every all-in-one unit I've heard (can't think of a better example out there).

It's been a treat with Future Sonics Spectrum G10 IEMs, Sennheiser HD650s, and Audeze LCD2 Classics alike.

I'm confident I'd prefer the headphone out to all but the best solid state amp. Only very good tube amps catch my ear over and above the RME--pleasing distortion vs. complete absence of distortion.


----------



## cardeli22

Luckbad said:


> With my sister in town, I've been pushed out of the computer room and have been exclusively using the RME ADI-2 DAC as my DAC/Amp directly from my phone.
> 
> The amplifier is far more capable than every all-in-one unit I've heard (can't think of a better example out there).
> 
> ...


Why oh why do you do this to my wallet.


----------



## oldson

not much new to read about this dac lately.
i assume this unit would improve with a decent psu?


----------



## Luckbad

oldson said:


> not much new to read about this dac lately.
> i assume this unit would improve with a decent psu?



Not many people have it yet because of shipping delays or something. It does not improve much, if at all, with a good power supply. It does incredible things to the power once it's in the unit (there are some measurements floating around, but you can read about it from RME).

I tried it with an atomicbob Noise Nuke in front as well as a nice linear power supply and with a cheaper switching power supply. It doesn't actually get better or worse. It's kinda magic. Feed it with the included USB cable and use the stock power supply and you're set.

This is coming from someone prone to the nervosa of cleaner power, better cables, never using USB, etc.


----------



## NickedWicked (Feb 20, 2018)

If anything a linear power supply will add noise even if it’s inaudible, battery filtering is extremely effective.

Stop worrying about upgrading and just enjoy the unit, it’s very well designed just like Benchmark’s.


----------



## 12Jewelz

Random question. Anyone knows how the ADI-2 DAC compares (sound quality wise) to any other pro audio units like the Dangerous Music Source? Or even the Gungnir Multibit (similarly priced $1000-1500 range)?


----------



## oldson

NickedWicked said:


> If anything a linear power supply will add noise even if it’s inaudible, battery filtering is extremely effective.
> 
> Stop worrying about upgrading and just enjoy the unit, it’s very well designed just like Benchmark’s.



i dont even own the unit (yet)
i am in the process of considering an upgrade on my micro idsd.
the adi-2 dac is on my shortlist along with the upcoming teac ud-505 , 2qute and qutest.
just gathering the info at the moment .
could be a long process considering the amount of user feedback at present.


----------



## cardeli22

oldson said:


> i dont even own the unit (yet)
> i am in the process of considering an upgrade on my micro idsd.
> the adi-2 dac is on my shortlist along with the upcoming teac ud-505 , 2qute and qutest.
> just gathering the info at the moment .
> could be a long process considering the amount of user feedback at present.


LOL in a similar boat. I just joined the Massdrop plus iems drop so wont be spending too much on audio this year (last year was enough, lol).  My micro idsd will be my main unit until probably Christmas when I zero in on the ADI-2 Dac. My wallet hates me these days.


----------



## AudioQuality777

Luckbad said:


> Not many people have it yet because of shipping delays or something. It does not improve much, if at all, with a good power supply. It does incredible things to the power once it's in the unit (there are some measurements floating around, but you can read about it from RME).
> 
> I tried it with an atomicbob Noise Nuke in front as well as a nice linear power supply and with a cheaper switching power supply. It doesn't actually get better or worse. It's kinda magic. Feed it with the included USB cable and use the stock power supply and you're set.
> 
> This is coming from someone prone to the nervosa of cleaner power, better cables, never using USB, etc.



Hey.Very interesting to see what's inside without the top cover.As visually different from the PRO version.Can you take off the top cap and take pictures?


----------



## AudioQuality777

On one of the forums I read this opinion.
"I just picked up an ADI-2 PRO myself. Not sure what you mean by "maybe" sounds better than the Mojo. I have a Benchmark DAC2, which IMO blows the Mojo away fairly easily. With that said, the ADI-2 PRO will be replacing my Benchmark DAC2 and ADC1 USB combo. I am very impressed with RME's work on this unit, I feel like the ADI-2 PRO and the DAC2 are on the same level, can't decide on a clear winner, but I like the convenience of having AD/DA in one box (works as preamp as well with analog in if not doing AD). I have also compared the DAC2 with the Lynx Hilo a while back, for the same type of all in one solution, but to my ears, the Hilo's DA was nowhere close to the Benchmark"


----------



## Collusion[FIN]

It seems the "release date" (meaning when the unit is really and widely available) is getting pushed back every time I open thomann.de ( last time it was 08.03.2018, now it is 16.03.2018 )...


----------



## sikki-six

Thomann Germany dispatched my unit wednesday. I made the order 15.2.2018.

I'm guessing they are getting only small batches at this point.


----------



## kundica

I had one of these on pre-order with a US company. The company listed as expected to ship on Feb 28th when I first ordered but I received a call/email on Feb 27th saying that they would not have stock and ready to ship by that date. They also wanted to run my credit card again(for purchase not auth) since the authorization had expired yet they could not give me a date when they expected stock other than "in the next few weeks." At that point I said I was no longer interested.


----------



## strojo

Sweetwater is currently saying the first week of April for availability.


----------



## NickedWicked

Review by Earphiles! 

http://earphiles.org/2018/03/rme-adi-2-dac-review/

Just what I expected, however I don't get his hum con, mine is dead silent. As for the slam, he might want to give the ADI-2 Pro a try because the balanced connections helps out a lot with hungry planars and lowers the noise even further which is already far in the inaudible range.(!).


----------



## lowvolume (Mar 12, 2018)

I wonder about such reviews all the time. Reading between the lines you have to wonder what the reviewer missed. Did he miss that you can switch the phones output into High Power mode? He wouldn't be the first...

Asking for a more black background - he did not set the reference levels correctly, or tested a different unit? More black than this - well, I've not seen one so far.

And yes, the hum is a riddle as well as this box is 100% hum free by design. Makes you wonder how he managed to achieve this.

But the biggest bummer for me is this one: 'remote control needs smaller increments of volume increase'. The remote control has the same steps as the big wheel at the unit - 0.5 dB. That is if you click the button. If you hold it then it accelerates, like the big wheel at the unit. Wrong operation by reviewer or just a nonsense statement?

Edit: 'Well implemented impedance selector'. There goes all his credibility - as there is no such thing at all.


----------



## NickedWicked (Mar 12, 2018)

lowvolume said:


> I wonder about such reviews all the time. Reading between the lines you have to wonder what the reviewer missed. Did he miss that you can switch the phones output into High Power mode? He wouldn't be the first...
> 
> Asking for a more black background - he did not set the reference levels correctly, or tested a different unit? More black than this - well, I've not seen one so far.
> 
> ...



But auto ref is somewhat of a simple impedance detector isn't it? Even the manual says it can be seen that way.


----------



## lowvolume

AutoRef is an 'automatic reference level' control steered by the Volume knob - nothing to do with 'impedance'. Where does the manual say so? I might have overlooked that statement in the many pages that it has...


----------



## NickedWicked

lowvolume said:


> AutoRef is an 'automatic reference level' control steered by the Volume knob - nothing to do with 'impedance'. Where does the manual say so? I might have overlooked that statement in the many pages that it has...



Page 58 for the DAC manual, or 82 in the Pro manual.


----------



## givemetacos

lowvolume said:


> I wonder about such reviews all the time. Reading between the lines you have to wonder what the reviewer missed. Did he miss that you can switch the phones output into High Power mode? He wouldn't be the first...
> 
> Asking for a more black background - he did not set the reference levels correctly, or tested a different unit? More black than this - well, I've not seen one so far.
> 
> ...



Perhaps @grizzlybeast can answer these questions himself


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Apr 5, 2018)

Strange and suspicious review.From a man who likes lamp-colored sound.No question this is just his opinion nothing more.And 90% choose in ADI2 DAC filter NOS.
And here why the man chose the most not the optimal filter-acute(Studio).On the basis of which put up their opinion.But in the end it turns out a great result in his application for 900 dollarov.RME ADI-2 DAC - OVERVIEW MSRP: $ 999 USD the TONAL BALANCE / NEITRALITET 95% characteristics of the PRICES 99%

   Excellent balance
    Excellent dynamics
    Beautiful design
    Well-implemented impedance selector
    versatile
You can use a DAC with high transmission and not to worry too much about what you are short changing their amplifiers. I used it with my Mogwai SE (next to the review) and it worked very well. Super low distortion and the inky black background sets this DAC separately. The amplifier section is better, not to mention all the useful features.And most importantly what is ideal for anyone who needs Сlean,Natural,Neutral sound ADI2 DAC .That's all she wrote!


----------



## grizzlybeast

Oh shoot!!!!!

I have no hum. That was from a template...I need to fix that asap


----------



## grizzlybeast

Wow


I need to get my head in the game. There is no hum. And it has the blackest background of anything in its price


----------



## lowvolume

NickedWicked said:


> Page 58 for the DAC manual, or 82 in the Pro manual.



Nope. That is about 'Impedance based level meters'. Not related to 'impedance selection' or 'AutoRef' at all.


----------



## givemetacos

lowvolume said:


> Nope. That is about 'Impedance based level meters'. Not related to 'impedance selection' or 'AutoRef' at all.



He corrected that mistake in the review.


----------



## Dogmatrix

I have the pro and the amp shortcomings listed in the review is mostly how I would describe the difference between se and balanced output .


----------



## lowvolume

givemetacos said:


> He corrected that mistake in the review.



I know. He fixed a lot, which is quite positive. What remains is his personal sound preference, and there is nothing wrong with that. The quoted reply was only for NickedWicked.


----------



## givemetacos

lowvolume said:


> I know. He fixed a lot, which is quite positive. What remains is his personal sound preference, and there is nothing wrong with that. The quoted reply was only for NickedWicked.



Yeah for sure, and I mean overall he said the dac/amp was exceptional and gave it a stellar rating. When it is being compared in the same league as gumby/yggy given its price and included feature set, it doesn't seem like anyone can fault it for what it is.


----------



## trybeingarun

I tried a friend's RME adi-2 dac yesterday. Between the gumby (gen2 + eitr) and rme (usb) I will definitely pick the rme for its tightness in sound. I din't have a proper a/b setup. I tried rme + a few amps vs gumby + same amps. Both were very good and gumby was wide sounding and was a little bit unnatural for me. I liked RME's tighter bass too.


----------



## NickedWicked

lowvolume said:


> Nope. That is about 'Impedance based level meters'. Not related to 'impedance selection' or 'AutoRef' at all.



Ah my bad, interpreted it that way. Didn't even know those meters gives an indication for eventual distortion (red), such a neat device.


----------



## lowvolume

I think 99.9% of the ADI-2 Pro and DAC users have never seen that feature working. You need full volume at High Power setting with a lower impedance can, which are usually quite efficient. So you blow your ears before you will ever see it.

I saw it with Mr.Speakers Aeon (one of the quieter phones) and a lot of sub-bass turned in. That is still too loud for many people...


----------



## johnreekie

Hi, it's really important to learn how to use the EQ function in these units, when you get it right it will be a revelation. (Disclaimer: I own the ADI-2 Pro not ADI-2 DAC, but this part is the same.)
Regards


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Mar 16, 2018)

Package wrapped with musicstore.de.The process of buying.Wrote a letter to the Manager.The Manager said it wasn't available, but it would be in a couple of weeks.Once ordered and paid for.On the website and has not appeared.All disassembled from a warehouse those who ordered-paid at once.Some photos.
The design is cute.A small, neat simply charm of!
The first the impression on sound.The class is felt immediately.Completely neutral (not dry and not greasy),natural sound.Revibrate many,many details,very good speaker.The bass digs deep.Very pleasant and analytical sound!!!

Connected the equipment to the music computer WIN10 with linear power>via the usb charge X-HI USB MATRIX  with linear power supply>cable USB Zonoton6N>ADI2 DAC hooked up a linear power supply 12 volt 2 ampere.
P.s.
_Recommend.It is very easy to raise the sound to a new height by connecting a high - quality linear power supply 12 Volt-1,5-2 amperes instead of the included!_The improvement in sound is huge!


----------



## wbjia

really hope someone can compare the sound of RME with PrismSound CALLIA


----------



## lowvolume

Not DAC but Pro:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rev...pro-schiit-yggdrasil-forssell-mdac-2a.867575/


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Mar 16, 2018)

Prism Callia would be completely "destroyed" in the net with no chance.If the author had connected to the AD2 PRO high-quality linear power supply type TEDI 12 volt 2 amp.Analog ,smooth,wet and a little soft sounding at the output.Do not compare with the power supply and giving in the kit.I'm gonna use DAC version and it's great.
P.S
Characteristics of the weak.Prism Callia.CALLIA supports linear PCM in 2's complement binary coding and, using the "DSD over PCM" (DOP) protocol, DSD at the original bit-rate (DSD64) and also at 2 x the original rate (DSD128). DSD Files encoded as "DOP" may be played with both ASIO and WDM drivers.

RME ADI2 PRO-32 Bit / 768 kHz Digital Audio ,DSD256,DSD Direct.


----------



## wbjia

lowvolume said:


> Not DAC but Pro:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rev...pro-schiit-yggdrasil-forssell-mdac-2a.867575/



thank you so much!


----------



## AudioQuality777

*Taken from the forum RME.*
*Re: Suggestion for a RME ADI-2-NPL (Network player) *
"I understand your point .. But meanwhile you could do what I do to get a very nice working and round solution.

Get a RME recording interface with ADAT or SPDIF out and connect it to your PC. 
The PC has access to local Storage or NAS where your FLAC files reside.

Take a 15m TOSLINK cable to connect recording interface to the ADI-2 PRO or DAC in front of your HiFi.

In the case of the ADI-2 DAC you can use its remote control to control the ADI-2 DAC. 
As Music Player on the PC I recommend MusicBee as it has a plugin which allows you 
to control it remotely via Android App. And its a nice looking one with many useful features. 
Its the best which I know.

If you have "normalized" all your music "Ctrl-Shift-V" (gets a Gain Tag into the FLAC header) 
then you have nearly everything on the same level and only need little volume adjustments.

While listening on your HiFi you can make use of the very nice dynamic loudness of the ADI-2 Pro / DAC. 
Or other features. A perfect / round solution.

Shall you disover (and you will 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that this is what you want to have for all of your other digital sources, 
then get an Oehlbach Optosel 4:1. This is a small unit with 4 optical inputs and one optical output. 
You can place it nicely in front of the ADI-2 Pro/DAC. It has a small remote control but you can select 
also at the device which of the 4 optical inputs shall be connected to the optical output.

This enables you to connect 4 digital sources (PC, TV, Blueray, ...) to the Optosel and from there to the ADI-2 Pro. 
So all of these digital sources can now participate from the excellent D/A conversion and all other feature 
of the ADI-2* like dynamic loudness which is even on high end HiFi a real must have.

This is also a money saver: this makes epensive Blueray Player with a very good analog section of its own 
completely unnecessary (like ie an Oppo for around €1750). Take a normal Blueray Player which you like, it only needs an optical SPDIF output. Then you can participate from the Reference D/A conversion quality of the ADI-2 Pro.

At the end towards your HiFi it comes down to a good analog connection between ADI-2* and the HiFi. 
I personally use a symmetric connection as my HiFi Amp supports this.

Amp to -50db (my usually loudest level) then on the ADI 2 DAC Auto Ref level. 
Then I usually hear with -13 - -20dB to get a little bit of the Loudness (default between -10 - -30dB). 
Thats it. 
And no matter which volume, it always sounds sweet with enough bass and treble by the dynamic loudness correction of the ADI-2 DAC. Better is not possible."


----------



## AudioQuality777

*Taken from the forum RME.*
> Anyway the ADI-2 DAC is currently the only DAC I'm considering. In fact I think I will pull the trigger later this year.

Go for it, you will love it !

I cross checked ADI-2 DAC with a friends hi-end HiFi (*Accuphase E-600, B&W 803D3*) with an DAC-40 at the weekend. 
The D/A conversion quality of both DACs is simply great. 
For listening we choosed 
a) songs with a good mix that we know 
b) listened to film music which often have a surprising good and wide mix with much depth and low frequencies in it

Both DACs are simply great. 1st it was difficult to identify / classify the differencies. 
But after a while - when listening closely to different materials where each song / mix has qualities of its own - 
it sounded as if the newer chip in the ADI-2 DAC was better able to deliver the room information / the depth in songs. 
With a very good HiFi you hear the "room in a room" information much better.. 
So in some songs it brought a bit more differentiation between the singer / voice in the front and the band in the back.

Where the ADI-2 Pro in this comparison really shines - compared to the "simple" D/A module in the Accuphase - 
is the dynamic loudness function. This is the best thing - THANKS RME - that can happen to your HiFi !!!

It it already very cool when using it for phones (*ADI-2 Pro + Audeze LCD-3*). 
Now having the ADI-2 DAC sitting in front of a HiFi this is really a killer feature and make lower listening levels really a dream. Once configured you simply choose the volume as you like and "magic" is working in the background for you.

As I already mentioned, add / put the Oehlback Optosel 4:1 in front of the ADI-2 DAC and then you have the fun for all of your digital sources like TV, Blueray, PC Player, ... Then you can connect 4 digital sources per optical SPDIF and also have for this a nicely working remote control.

If you look at the prices what major players in the HiFi world like Accuphase take for simply a DAC module, then you can regard the ADI-2 DAC with its features as a real present LOL Especially if you some up, what other cool functions and features the ADI-2 DAC has for phones, in ear speakers: PEQ, etc etc ...

I think the ADI-2 DAC this is the best DAC, phone preamp, etc etc that you can get and with a quality / features density that is really amazing and this to a real stunning price.


----------



## pichu

Hey! Can anyone clarify how the RME ADI-2 DAC works as a preamp/volume controller for active speakers? I want to connect my Focal Shape Twin Dual Active studio monitors to the RME and use the RME’s volume knob but I want to make sure that works good. If not I’d have to buy an external monitor controller to hook up to the RME through its balanced output line


----------



## lowvolume

Clarify? You connect it and then control the volume with the Volume knob or the remote. What makes you think it doesn't work like that?


----------



## pichu

lowvolume said:


> Clarify? You connect it and then control the volume with the Volume knob or the remote. What makes you think it doesn't work like that?


I just wasn’t sure how it was implemented due to it being digital volume control. But sounds good to me! Looks like it’ll be a good DAC and passive preamp for my speaker setup


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Anyone familiar with NOS dacs care to comment on how close the ADI-2 Dac’s NOS filter setting gets to sounding like the real thing? I’ve only ever had delta sigma dacs and I’m thinking of taking the NOS plunge. Not to replace my ADI-2 but to complement it in my setup.


----------



## cardeli22

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Anyone familiar with NOS dacs care to comment on how close the ADI-2 Dac’s NOS filter setting gets to sounding like the real thing? I’ve only ever had delta sigma dacs and I’m thinking of taking the NOS plunge. Not to replace my ADI-2 but to complement it in my setup.


Was wondering about this as well.


----------



## musicmaker

Just purchased one new and its due to arrive in a couple days. Can't wait.


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Mar 20, 2018)

Good review from the user RME ADI2 DAC. 

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog...AC-and-Headphones-Preamp-like-no-other-EN-DE/


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Mar 21, 2018)

*New firmware with good additions ADI2 DAC (2018)!
Firmware Update FPGA 11 DSP 20*

*https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=26878*

*The second firmware update for the ADI-2 DAC mostly includes improvements recently done on the ADI-2 Pro. Here are the news for FPGA version 11 and DSP version 20.

- Newly programmed DAC subclock module. Note that the underlying issue never showed up with the ADI-2 DAC.

- Reworked several reset and initialization schemes in various modes and sample rates to avoid unexpected clicks and noise burst issues.

- Playing a PCM file at 176.4 kHz followed by a DSD64 file where both files have audio from start to end (usually special test files, not music...) could cause a 250 ms noise burst during transition.

- The automatic DSD DoP detection (present as hardware module at the digital input, USB playback and in front of the DAC chip) can now be disabled. This option turned out to be necessary when using the ADI-2 DAC for measurements and generating extreme high frequencies [1], but is nothing to worry about if one is just listening to music. Default: SETUP - Options - Device Mode - DSD Detection - ON.
*
*- New option 'Toggle Screen' in the Remap key section. Assigning this function to one of the programmable keys of the remote will toggle between the three top screens Analyzer, Dark Volume and State Overview.  In case AutoDark is active the first press will show the current top screen for 10 seconds, a second press within this time changes to the next one. Note: the number of functions for Remap Keys is now 22*


----------



## Coolblue

RME ADI-2 DAC seems to provide so much quality and flexibility that it prompted me to purchase one new and its due to arrive tomorrow. .


----------



## kundica

Coolblue said:


> RME ADI-2 DAC seems to provide so much quality and flexibility that it prompted me to purchase one new and its due to arrive tomorrow. .


Mine was due today but at this point it doesn't look like it will arrive anytime soon. I ordered from ZenPro Audio which I suggest people stay away from. They shipped it USPS which on their website it states they only ship very small items under a pound or two through USPS and everything else FedEx. If I knew they would ship such a valuable item through the post, I would've upgraded the shipping. The item shipped from South Carolina to DC which is about 6 1/2 hours away by car yet my DAC is currently in Chicago moving from from one station to another.

I should've known better though. Over a month ago I preordered the same item from them but about a day before it was due to be in stock they emailed to inform me that it wouldn't be. They said the preauth on my credit card had expired and they wanted to run it again (for purchase, not auth) yet they didn't know for sure when the item would come into stock. At that point I said I was no longer interested.


----------



## cardeli22

kundica said:


> Mine was due today but at this point it doesn't look like it will arrive anytime soon. I ordered from ZenPro Audio which I suggest people stay away from. They shipped it USPS which on their website it states they only ship very small items under a pound or two through USPS and everything else FedEx. If I knew they would ship such a valuable item through the post, I would've upgraded the shipping. The item shipped from South Carolina to DC which is about 6 1/2 hours away by car yet my DAC is currently in Chicago moving from from one station to another.
> 
> I should've known better though. Over a month ago I preordered the same item from them but about a day before it was due to be in stock they emailed to inform me that it wouldn't be. They said the preauth on my credit card had expired and they wanted to run it again (for purchase, not auth) yet they didn't know for sure when the item would come into stock. At that point I said I was no longer interested.


That's nuts. SC to DC by way of Chicago? Not sure how the hell USPS figured that's the best route to your home.


----------



## kundica

cardeli22 said:


> That's nuts. SC to DC by way of Chicago? Not sure how the hell USPS figured that's the best route to your home.


Yeah. What pisses me off the most though, is when I contacted ZenPro to express my concern they were dismissive and suggested that I use FedEx the next time I order something from them.  I've bought a lot of professional gear over the years from places like Sweetwater and B&H, yet never experienced them shipping via USPS or putting the blame on me for the company going against its stated policy.


----------



## cardeli22

kundica said:


> Yeah. What pisses me off the most though, is when I contacted ZenPro to express my concern they were dismissive and suggested that I use FedEx the next time I order something from them.  I've bought a lot of professional gear over the years from places like Sweetwater and B&H, yet never experienced them shipping via USPS or putting the blame on me for the company going against its stated policy.


Yeah that sucks. Hopefully it arrives safe. As an expat living in Germany and seeing all those American news reports and online videos of packages "delivered' to someone's doorstep only to be stolen soon after, it makes me wonder how this happens so often.


----------



## sikki-six

I'm very, very pleased with ADI-2 DAC after about two weeks of use. The *DAC *is clean and non-fatiguing with a very nice sense of space. For such a small unit, I'm surprised RME managed to fit such a nice amp-section in there too. I've mostly listened to my HD600 and *the amp* for me sounds better than my Lyr 2 (with LISSTs, connected into the line-outs): way snappier & tighter low-end and much less hazy/grainy sound overall. Lyr 2 sounds slightly darker, kind of more romantic (some might like this?) with less instrument separation and generally less detailed. Schiit puts out more subs and bass overall, but it's messier. Bass guitars are easier to follow with the ADI-amp. Differences aren't huge, but speed & clarity go to RME quite easily. I've mostly listened to rock, metal, pop, acoustic, hip-hop etc.

And yeah, I'm loving the usability and overall awesome features of this device. The bass/treble controls on the front panel are a breeze to use when listening to thin/trebly/bloated/etc. mixes or when tired. Tried the EQ too briefly and found it easy to get around.

I still have some extensive listening (and EQing) to do with *LCD-2* and *HD800* especially, I'll report back!


----------



## musicmaker

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Anyone familiar with NOS dacs care to comment on how close the ADI-2 Dac’s NOS filter setting gets to sounding like the real thing? I’ve only ever had delta sigma dacs and I’m thinking of taking the NOS plunge. Not to replace my ADI-2 but to complement it in my setup.



I have a Holo Sprint L3 Kitsune R2R NOS dac. The NOS filter in the ADI-2 DAC is a nice attempt but the real NOS R2R dac is superior in every way. Its no contest. Of course the Holo is more expensive too.


----------



## musicmaker

BTW, I have one for sale. Its basically brand new, just took it out of the box to test if its works properly. Was supposed to take it for someone overseas but trip got cancelled. Can return to vendor but wanted to offer it for sale here as the its hard to find in stock !

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-1-day-old.875413/


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## Coolblue (Mar 23, 2018)

I ordered mine from legendary_pro_audio via eBay and it got directly drop shipped and would be getting delivered today via UPS.
So no issues there seems. Seems like seller has their own website https://legendaryproaudio.com/.
Waiting eagerly for it to arrive.


----------



## ZenErik

musicmaker said:


> I have a Holo Sprint L3 Kitsune R2R NOS dac. The NOS filter in the ADI-2 DAC is a nice attempt but the real NOS R2R dac is superior in every way. Its no contest. Of course the Holo is more expensive too.


What makes the Holo superior 'in every way in' your opinion? Would be nice to hear some specific details about the differences.


----------



## AudioQuality777

sikki-six said:


> I'm very, very pleased with ADI-2 DAC after about two weeks of use. The *DAC *is clean and non-fatiguing with a very nice sense of space. For such a small unit, I'm surprised RME managed to fit such a nice amp-section in there too. I've mostly listened to my HD600 and *the amp* for me sounds better than my Lyr 2 (with LISSTs, connected into the line-outs): way snappier & tighter low-end and much less hazy/grainy sound overall. Lyr 2 sounds slightly darker, kind of more romantic (some might like this?) with less instrument separation and generally less detailed. Schiit puts out more subs and bass overall, but it's messier. Bass guitars are easier to follow with the ADI-amp. Differences aren't huge, but speed & clarity go to RME quite easily. I've mostly listened to rock, metal, pop, acoustic, hip-hop etc.
> 
> And yeah, I'm loving the usability and overall awesome features of this device. The bass/treble controls on the front panel are a breeze to use when listening to thin/trebly/bloated/etc. mixes or when tired. Tried the EQ too briefly and found it easy to get around.
> 
> I still have some extensive listening (and EQing) to do with *LCD-2* and *HD800* especially, I'll report back!


Thanks.Good overview


----------



## musicmaker

ZenErik said:


> What makes the Holo superior 'in every way in' your opinion? Would be nice to hear some specific details about the differences.


The RME only has a few hours of runtime and my Holo has about 50 hours. If I'm doing a proper comparison it would be fair to let the RME unit burn in for a few days before critical listening. So take these as initial impressions. The RME is a great sounding unit and for the price is a no brainer. Having said that, the L3 kitsune sounds much more refined both in the bass and lower and upper treble. The bass has more texture and impact and goes deeper. The treble is smoother yet beautifully extended. Midrange, I really cant tell a difference. Both units sound very transparent and open. The Kitsune has a better soundstage and more importantly for headphone listening precise imaging (ie the placement of instruments in that space) compared to the ADI-2 dac. If I hadn't heard the Holo, I would be very satisfied with the ADI-2. I do wish the ADI-2 had a bit more authority in the lower and upper bass while still maintaining neutrality like the Holo manages to do.

The amp section is pretty good on the ADI-2. I also tried it as dac only with my headamp GS-X mkII to compare with the holo. Hope this helps.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

musicmaker said:


> The RME only has a few hours of runtime and my Holo has about 50 hours. If I'm doing a proper comparison it would be fair to let the RME unit burn in for a few days before critical listening. So take these as initial impressions. The RME is a great sounding unit and for the price is a no brainer. Having said that, the L3 kitsune sounds much more refined both in the bass and lower and upper treble. The bass has more texture and impact and goes deeper. The treble is smoother yet beautifully extended. Midrange, I really cant tell a difference. Both units sound very transparent and open. The Kitsune has a better soundstage and more importantly for headphone listening precise imaging (ie the placement of instruments in that space) compared to the ADI-2 dac. If I hadn't heard the Holo, I would be very satisfied with the ADI-2. I do wish the ADI-2 had a bit more authority in the lower and upper bass while still maintaining neutrality like the Holo manages to do.
> 
> The amp section is pretty good on the ADI-2. I also tried it as dac only with my headamp GS-X mkII to compare with the holo. Hope this helps.


Thanks for the info. The Adi-2 DAC is good enough that I don’t see myself getting another dac for a while unless it’s an NOS or tube model, and if/when I do get a new d/s dac I will almost certainly keep the RME to use as an all-in-one. It’s really staggering what they stuffed into such a lightweight, small unit!

Quick aside: Anyone know how to reset the EQ to the default/flat setting? Once I start getting into the weeds on the EQ I find it helpful to start from scratch next time I want to make adjustments but I haven’t figured out how to do that automatically yet.


----------



## jerick70

The RME has peaked my interest.  I'm looking for a new DAC and this looks like a winner.  Or should I choose the Holo Spring Rise Je Edition?  And then there is the ADI-2 Pro.....  Hmmm

So reading about the DAC and Pro editions of the ADI-2.  What is the difference between the two?  I know that the Pro has the better headphone amp and you can record with it.  Does it have any difference in the DAC implementation like two DAC chips in the Pro and only one DAC chip in the DAC edition?


----------



## johnreekie

Notionally, the ADI-2 DAC is the ADI-2 Pro without the analog input and digital outputs. I've been really impressed with the care and thoughtfulness in the design of the ADI-2 Pro (which I have), and from what I read about the ADI-2 DAC, it's got the same but honed for the "home" use case - RCA connectors, lower output levels, only one DAC chip (because home users don't need separate monitoring), remote, the dedicated IEM output and also the menu design and features. As long as you don't want to play vinyl through it.

The Pro has two DAC chips because it can play different signals through the line outs and the headphones. The ADI-2 DAC is the same signal on both.

The ADI-2 DAC doesn't have balanced headphone drive (the Pro uses both of its DAC chips for this) but apart from that I think the amp is the same.


----------



## jerick70

johnreekie said:


> Notionally, the ADI-2 DAC is the ADI-2 Pro without the analog input and digital outputs. I've been really impressed with the care and thoughtfulness in the design of the ADI-2 Pro (which I have), and from what I read about the ADI-2 DAC, it's got the same but honed for the "home" use case - RCA connectors, lower output levels, only one DAC chip (because home users don't need separate monitoring), remote, the dedicated IEM output and also the menu design and features. As long as you don't want to play vinyl through it.
> 
> The Pro has two DAC chips because it can play different signals through the line outs and the headphones. The ADI-2 DAC is the same signal on both.
> 
> The ADI-2 DAC doesn't have balanced headphone drive (the Pro uses both of its DAC chips for this) but apart from that I think the amp is the same.


Thank you for the info.  I really like all of the options RME has packed into this DAC.  The EQ looks luscious.  

I've pulled the trigger on the DAC edition.  We will see how it fits into my audio chain.  

You know the funny thing is I just can't pull the trigger on the Holo Spring.  I've been watching it since it came out and I've had it in my cart many times, but just can't do it...... LOL  I can't quite place my finger on why?


----------



## johnreekie

Have fun!

The ADI-2 DAC seems like a nice deal in the US actually, it's half the price of the ADI-2 Pro, whereas in Europe and Australia it's more in the 60-70% range. (No idea why, I just noticed this.)


----------



## musicmaker (Mar 27, 2018)

I was going to return the dac with a heavy heart (as I spent a ton of money on my home system this month). Decide to give it another listen after spending the time browsing forums and reading the manual to understand the settings. The menu layout isn't the most intuitive. But once I got my adjustments and eq in, I plug in my Focal Clear and Sony Z1R. I was totally blown away by what this little thing can do. So much so, I decided not to return it and use it as my transportable/office setup. It gets to 90% of my home dac/amp that costs 6-7x. This is an insane value and I can understand why the unit isnt in stock in most places. This does not get enough press on these forums. Kinda sad.

I owned a Hugo 2 and will tell you, the RME sounds a bit better. Factor in the other features, balanced output, parametric eq, usb cleanup, power cleanup  and tons of other features. This is a no brainer for the sound quality and flexibility it provides. I honestly wish more people try this unit.

Do yourselves a favor and use a good quality USB cable. If you dont believe in that kind of thing, move on. If you do, i went through half a dozen cables from $5 to $350. Let me save you the trouble. I HIGHLY recommend the Oyaide d+ usb class a or even better the Oyaide d+ usb class s. Absolutely superb sounding cable that blows away cables costing 5x more. I compared the Oyaide with the Chord c-usb, supra, Kitsune usb, DH labs silversonic, cardas clear, ifi. The Oyaide is the best and most natural sounding of them all ! I purchased mine from amazon. Compared the class a (very good and excellent value) but the class s is more transparent and slightly superior.


----------



## occamsrazor (Mar 27, 2018)

Mine arrived yesterday... All seems to be working well with it, including upsampling in Roon to its maximum PCM 768khz 32-bit output over USB.
Unfortunately between ordering and receiving it, the power supply for one of my monoblock power amps died, so for now I can’t speak as to its sound quality as am only listening on one speaker (aaargh!!)


----------



## Poleepkwa

musicmaker said:


> I was going to return the dac with a heavy heart (as I spent a ton of money on my home system this month). Decide to give it another listen after spending the time browsing forums and reading the manual to understand the settings. The menu layout isn't the most intuitive. But once I got my adjustments and eq in, I plug in my Focal Clear and Sony Z1R. I was totally blown away by what this little thing can do. So much so, I decided not to return it and use it as my transportable/office setup. It gets to 90% of my home dac/amp that costs 6-7x. This is an insane value and I can understand why the unit isnt in stock in most places. This does not get enough press on these forums. Kinda sad.
> 
> I owned a Hugo 2 and will tell you, the RME sounds a bit better. Factor in the other features, balanced output, parametric eq, usb cleanup, power cleanup  and tons of other features. This is a no brainer for the sound quality and flexibility it provides. I honestly wish more people try this unit.
> 
> Do yourselves a favor and use a good quality USB cable. If you dont believe in that kind of thing, move on. If you do, i went through half a dozen cables from $5 to $350. Let me save you the trouble. I HIGHLY recommend the Oyaide d+ usb class a or even better the Oyaide d+ usb class s. Absolutely superb sounding cable that blows away cables costing 5x more. I compared the Oyaide with the Chord c-usb, supra, Kitsune usb, DH labs silversonic, cardas clear, ifi. The Oyaide is the best and most natural sounding of them all ! I purchased mine from amazon. Compared the class a (very good and excellent value) but the class s is more transparent and slightly superior.


How was the stock and Supra USB cables fare?


----------



## musicmaker (Mar 27, 2018)

Poleepkwa said:


> How was the stock and Supra USB cables fare?



The noise rejection design used, how well the signal and power lines are isolated has a direct bearing on sound. This is the most important thing to look for.

The stock cable sounds congested and noisy in comparison to the other cables. The supra has better transparency, better noise characteristics than stock. The top end sounded a bit harsh. The Oyaide has even better transparency and separation. Its more natural sounding with better bass definition and smooth yet extended top end. This is with class A. Class S take it even further and betters the class A by a small but noticeable margin.

Its important to test usb cables in a transparent system to make any meaningful conclusions. I tested on the RME as well as my Holo Sprint Level 3 kitsune dac with Headamp GS-X mk II. In other words, make sure the rest of your chain in up to the task first. Cables should be the last step in optimizing audio.


----------



## 12Jewelz

How does the internal headphone amp compare to an external seperate (like a Jotunheim etc.)? Is there any loss/gain in detail anyone experienced?


----------



## NickedWicked

12Jewelz said:


> How does the internal headphone amp compare to an external seperate (like a Jotunheim etc.)? Is there any loss/gain in detail anyone experienced?



I've heard several sub 2k amps, and the ADI-2 headamp is right up there honestly. Excellent performance with only some slight nuances and slam lacking compared to summit-fi amps.


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## music_man (Mar 28, 2018)

Nevermind rubbish below, there is no free lunch. Even the pro version is bested by just the dac3. No surprise as that is a darn good dac and 2018 stereophile A+. Still, there is much better than that to be had. But..... in a package this size? I might take a DAC3 in the house. What the heck.....
sorry for waste of time. I had high hopes for this but see it is not quite there. It is in fact a Femto. Their page is a bit confusing. Sorry for that. Even though these chips are "below" ESS top I might like them better. It is a steal for what it is don't get me wrong. Just not reference quality perhaps.

I would still wonder if anyone would gander at my questions. Most likely not having heard it.

I am/was a sound and electronic engineer. Well accustomed to brands like rme, benchmark, genelec other stuff that does not apply to hifi at all of course like neuman,ssl.

I remember with the dac1 it was punching way above the belt and I brought one into my home.

so I have two questions. I assume this hits above it's price point. what would you compare it too that is much more expensive? even if the sound is different is it in that league? I am thinking like Chord dave, Mytek manhattan II etc plus many other $6k+ dacs. Actually T+A 8 uses these converters I think. I just have a feeling coming from rme hammerfall converters that this thing keeps very good company. I know many said yiggy but I think you can safely aim much higher than that with this, no?

How about a linear psu for this thing? may not make a difference if as I suspect the rectifiers are inside of the thing. or if it is in fact an ac adapter than it makes no difference either.

So those are my two questions  I was looking at a Directstream with bridge. I once had one but it needed to mature more and has done so. The issue is I really need something more compact here to sit on a table. As some have said is where it belongs and not in a stereo rack. in that sense this fits my bill. I am betting this sounds similar to the Directstream too. Also the price of this is outstanding even if it only matches dacs twice it's price. so there are 2x 4490 per channel? 4490 or 4490A?

Thanks

strange just looked. it says fs they said femto. look at specs <800 ps, huh? perhaps this thing does not in fact hand with the big boys. I do not care about the price but the size. I hope they pulled it off but those specs not looking great. why steadyclock fs if it is well into ps?


----------



## AudioQuality777

occamsrazor said:


> Mine arrived yesterday... All seems to be working well with it, including upsampling in Roon to its maximum PCM 768khz 32-bit output over USB.
> Unfortunately between ordering and receiving it, the power supply for one of my monoblock power amps died, so for now I can’t speak as to its sound quality as am only listening on one speaker (aaargh!!)


 My congratulations. On what system do you use which player? The cable that is used in the kit.


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## AudioQuality777 (Mar 29, 2018)

Overview *craigl59* of a new user ADI2 DAC . 
_"Am able to post now, I think.
Longtime RME user and just got the new ADI-2 DAC. Am trying it out in a studio setting just to see its capabilities and they are impressive indeed. The ability to select impulse responses provides the flexibility to get your system and music genres set just so. Have found for denser orchestral textures the "slow" setting opens up the orchestra and allows increased transparency.
The phone output is very clean and exact. Am getting such clarity in general that better orchestral recordings exhibit subtle stage noise not heard from other DACs. You expect neutral clarity from RME products and this DAC delivers in spades.
Use both the RME UCX and RME UFX in my home studios and the new ADI-2 DAC betters both in terms of D/A conversion.
Those accustomed to RME's TotalMix should know that this DAC consumer product is a standalone with no active/software computer interface. you have to download the drivers to get connected to a source such as JRIver but, otherwise, there is no software connection to the computer. As noted by many, the USB connection is particularly well done.
Standalone status has pluses and minuses. On one hand the box is very easy to configure; on the other, you have to learn RME's physical control buttons-- that are clumsy at best. They could use additional buttons to make things easier. Also, it is good to know that button changes take place in realtime and do not require an "Enter" process. Get ready for the manual. It is absolutely essential here. 
How good is this device?
*When I move from the ADI-2 DAC studio room back to the regular listening room (with audiophile gear) I think "doesn't sound nearly as good as the ADI-2 DAC."
They're hard to get, right? Was able to get one from Synthax but had to remind them of the order several times. Derrick is very helpful there.
RME has got a real winner here and it is my conjecture that lots of audiophiles are going to be talking about this product in 2018."*_


_Opinion from the user *Zed Bopp*

"I've had the device just shy of two weeks, here's some thoughts.

I didn't have a good DAC to compare this to head-to-head, but from memory my recently sold Arcam irDAC was more on the warm and romantic side of things with some extra mid-bass warmth. My old V.1Apogee Duet sounds pretty nasty in the highs especially in comparison. It sounds like a much worse quality digital file.
ADI-2 DAC’s amp impressions with HD600
Versus Schiit Lyr 2 with LISSTs (so, it's basically two high powered solid-state amps).
*
Lyr 2 was connected into the RCA-outs - just plugging the HD600 in & out of the hp-out changed the output. Amp comparisons hardly get easier than this. Volume-matching was all I did.

tighter bass, cleaner sound overall
bass is snappy, aka fast vs the Schiit
Schiit has better subs punch & presence
Lyr loses some details, it's more "romantically" smeared
RME sounds flatter and cleaner up top
instrument separation goes easily to the RME
Lyr has more weight on kick drum notes, but ”messier” mid-bass, less definition
bass riffs behind a wall of distorted guitars are easier to follow with ADI-2
Lyr might be a very slightly easier, more forgiving listen
soundstage is wider through the RME (hard-panned acoustic guitars show this quick)
the ADI-amp doesn't fit the usual pro-gear stereotype, it's not cold, sterile, shrill, analytical etc.
differences aren’t huge, but esp speed & clarity do differ quite noticeably
ADI-2 DAC makes the Schiit amp pretty much useless to me with HD600
most audio-gear has a certain sound / coloring, I can't right now tell what it is with ADI-2
my preferences are rock, metal, acoustic, hip-hop, pop etc.
*

My listening sessions continue. Next up are LCD-2.1 and HD800 (with some of that EQ). I'll report back

 _


----------



## occamsrazor

AudioQuality777 said:


> My congratulations. On what system do you use which player? The cable that is used in the kit.



I am using it with two systems:

For Music: Mac Mini playing Roon > Supra USB cable > RME ADI-2 DAC > Balanced XLR to Hypex NC400 monoblock amps > ATC SCM11 speakers. Also Unbalanced RCA to ATC C1 subwoofer.

  

For Movies: MacBook Pro running Plex > Optical SPDIF > RME ADI-2 DAC > same amp and speakers.

I also have a Logitech Harmony universal remote control and was able to "learn" from the commands of the RME remote, so now I can use this to control volume and source etc of the RME unit as well as it controls Plex.


----------



## simon740

Hello,

can I ask if this dac work with Linux system?

regards,
Simon


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## AudioQuality777 (Mar 30, 2018)

simon740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> can I ask if this dac work with Linux system?
> 
> ...


Yes, excellent on Linux and tested Snake. But I'm using Win10 with Jriver player.I think the Win10 plays a little more detailed.


----------



## AudioQuality777

occamsrazor said:


> I am using it with two systems:
> 
> For Music: Mac Mini playing Roon > Supra USB cable > RME ADI-2 DAC > Balanced XLR to Hypex NC400 monoblock amps > ATC SCM11 speakers. Also Unbalanced RCA to ATC C1 subwoofer.
> 
> ...


Very good system.


----------



## simon740

AudioQuality777 said:


> Yes, excellent on Linux and tested Snake. But I'm using Win10 with Jriver player.


Thank you for your answer. Im looking a DAC for my Jolida JD302 BRC and WLM La Scala monitor speakers.
In the past I had Aune S16, Naim DAC V1, Rega Brio-R dac. Now I choose between Chord Qutest and this ADI-2.

regards,
Simon


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## AudioQuality777 (Apr 5, 2018)

simon740 said:


> Thank you for your answer. Im looking a DAC for my Jolida JD302 BRC and WLM La Scala monitor speakers.
> In the past I had Aune S16, Naim DAC V1, Rega Brio-R dac. Now I choose between Chord Qutest and this ADI-2.
> 
> regards,
> Simon


User *"musicmaker" *comparison on the previous page Chord Hugo 2 (2400$) &RME ADI2 DAC.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-thread.868015/page-8#post-14131003
_"*I owned a Hugo 2 and will tell you, the RME sounds a bit better*. Factor in the other features, balanced output, parametric eq, usb cleanup, power cleanup and tons of other features. This is a no brainer for the sound quality and flexibility it provides. I honestly wish more people try this unit_"

 Chord Hugo 2 (2400$)It is $ 600 +- more expensive than Chord Qutest(1800$). According to the logic of Adi2DAC any better than Chord Qutest because Adi2DAC it's better than Chord Hugo 2.


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## simon740 (Mar 29, 2018)

$ 600 more expensive than Chord Qutest ? Meybe Pro version.
In EU the price for ADI-2 DAC is 999€.
Now I realy think to buy this little toy


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## Boerd (Mar 30, 2018)

I have a Chord Mojo and to my ears it sounds perfect with my HD 650 / Beyer 880 / 600 ohms. Unfortunately I see random problems with it and the battery doesn't hold a charge for more than 2 hours which means it stays plugged in a lot.
Plus - when the power level is lower the THD increases on Mojo http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/chord-mojo.php#rw14
Now, I have on order a Focal Elex which is lower impedance and high sensitivity so I am thinking the IEM feature is something I would need, as I listen to fairly low levels (very sensitive hearing).
The only thing is I know monoprice is readying a DAC/ headphone combo based on THX AAA technology and that seems to be the cleanest these days.
Choices, choices, choices.


----------



## AudioQuality777

Well done several times a month driver update.
New USB driver for *Windows 7 to 10*.03/29/2018
http://www.rme-audio.de/download/driver_madiface_win_09653.zip


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## AudioQuality777 (Apr 5, 2018)

Correction of the frequency response for the NOS filter or why an EQ was useful!!!
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=26952

I fully agree, but in the end the aliasing turns out to be no big issue in real-world...otherwise MQA wouldn't even exist...

And for the rolled-off treble there is a simple workaround: use the EQ to compensate. Here are two settings for Slow and NOS to linearize the treble response at 44.1 kHz sample rate:

Slow B5 G +4.0 F 16.5k Q 2.1 Shelf
NOS B5 G +3.0 F 14.3k Q 0.6 Shelf

As you can imagine with only 3 and 4 dB gain this is just a slight change, it linearizes NOS perfectly, and Slow good enough.


----------



## doctor subie

Interested if anyone knows how this would compare to the PS Audio Stellar Gain DAC?


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## amirm

I just finished my Review and Measurements of ME ADI-2 DAC.  It did extremely well!  Best I have measured of any DAC.  And nice headphone amp to boot.

I see you all discussed the odd way it only advertises one sample rate to Windows.  That is the main fault I see with the unit as I am not a fan of installing any drivers.


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## kundica (Apr 7, 2018)

amirm said:


> I just finished my Review and Measurements of ME ADI-2 DAC.  It did extremely well!  Best I have measured of any DAC.  And nice headphone amp to boot.
> 
> I see you all discussed the odd way it only advertises one sample rate to Windows.  That is the main fault I see with the unit as I am not a fan of installing any drivers.


I'll check them out, thanks!

The driver is that way by design since the Madiface driver spans across many devices which are primarily or solely used in professional applications. Those people would typically determine their settings in a DAW and it affords them a higher level of stability. Unfortunately it presets issues with many Audiophile oriented applications.

Edit: I should mention that Qobuz works fine with the ASIO driver. I use Qobuz Sublime+ and it will play through my playlist of 16/44 to 24/192 without bugging.


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## AudioQuality777 (Apr 9, 2018)

amirm said:


> I just finished my Review and Measurements of ME ADI-2 DAC.  It did extremely well!  Best I have measured of any DAC.  And nice headphone amp to boot.
> 
> I see you all discussed the odd way it only advertises one sample rate to Windows.  That is the main fault I see with the unit as I am not a fan of installing any drivers.


It's not very clear what kind of problem you have with USB on Win. Automatically does not the sampling frequency on the music file switch? Or do you personally have incompatibility with Roon? Specify.
On with USB and Roonthere are no problems with this ASIO WIN10 !
On the Mac, too, there is no problem with USB and Roon.


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## lowvolume

amirm said:


> I see you all discussed the odd way it only advertises one sample rate to Windows.  That is the main fault I see with the unit as I am not a fan of installing any drivers.



You have a strange way to twist reality. No one here ever discussed this point. Luckbad mentioning it is no discussion.

This is a non-issue for anyone else. Use ASIO - be happy.


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## kundica

lowvolume said:


> You have a strange way to twist reality. No one here ever discussed this point. Luckbad mentioning it is no discussion.
> 
> This is a non-issue for anyone else. Use ASIO - be happy.


I'm not sure what you're referring to but amirm is correct about the ASIO driver. It locks in 1 sample rate at a time and if an app changes that sample rate the windows drops the device and adds a new one with the new sample rate.


----------



## lowvolume (Apr 7, 2018)

kundica said:


> I'm not sure what you're referring



I quoted the text: >I see you all discussed the odd way it only advertises one sample rate to Windows< is a wrong statement. No one discussed this here. I am not denying what you wrote as that was not part of his statement at all. Still your statement is not correct as well: it is the WDM driver doing this, not the ASIO driver.


----------



## amirm

AudioQuality777 said:


> It's not very clear what kind of problem you have with USB on Win.


I showed the Roon display just the same so not sure what is not clear about it:







The only one that shows up as being valid is what I set in MADIFace.  The same is true of Windows Sound control panel. Under Advanced properties, it only shows one sample rate at a time.

Can you show me the same display on Windows (not Mac) using WASAPI accepting all the sample rates at once like on the Mac?


----------



## amirm

lowvolume said:


> I quoted the text: >I see you all discussed the odd way it only advertises one sample rate to Windows< is a wrong statement. No one discussed this here.


I am going by a post on the first page of the thread:



Luckbad said:


> ...then I noticed that 96kHz was the only sample rate shown.



Which is what I am seeing.

Had you read that post and still complained?


----------



## lowvolume

A discussion needs at least two people. Luckbad is one person, he mentioned the driver's behavior in his own review (said post on page 1). 'I see you all discussed' implies that _several_ posters _discussed_ this issue throughout this thread (multiple posts). Which was not the case, unless I missed those posts. Clear now?


----------



## bidn

amirm said:


> I just finished my Review and Measurements of ME ADI-2 DAC.  It did extremely well!  Best I have measured of any DAC.  And nice headphone amp to boot.
> 
> I see you all discussed the odd way it only advertises one sample rate to Windows.  That is the main fault I see with the unit as I am not a fan of installing any drivers.




Hi amirm,

thank you so much for your rigorous, consistent tests and for these excellent news about the RME ADI 2 DAC, especially for me as a relatively early owner of the RME ADI-2 Pro and as I ave been recommending it (als also its little brother when it came out) on head-fi. This coming just a few days after Virta Fortuna announced that the SP1000cu was tested to be the best DAP hje ever tested, even over the SP1000SS, again excellent news for me... ( https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dap-score-chart.874423/#post-14099475 ).

Re. the unusual issue of a single rate being displayed by Windows setting for RME DACs,
 this issue used to bother me as well and it took me some time to find the solution in the manual:
to change the rate, look at the devices icons, they are normally on the bottom right of your screen, it often requires clicking on the double arrow pointing to the left,
then click on the icon with the black, red, yellow, and green horizontal stripes (probably representing a spectrogram): this opens the madiface user interface where you can change the rate.
Let me know whether this is helpful,

Have a nice Sunday,
bidn


----------



## johnreekie

Use RME's ASIO driver -



 

(That the ADI-2 Pro but I believe the ADI-2 DAC will be the same.)


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Apr 8, 2018)

amirm said:


> I showed the Roon display just the same so not sure what is not clear about it:
> The only one that shows up as being valid is what I set in MADIFace.  The same is true of Windows Sound control panel. Under Advanced properties, it only shows one sample rate at a time.
> Can you show me the same display on Windows (not Mac) using WASAPI accepting all the sample rates at once like on the Mac?



There is a normal ASIO driver from RME. Why do you need a poor-quality WASAPI built in WIN? In your review, make sure that you do not confuse people.


----------



## amirm

AudioQuality777 said:


> There is a normal ASIO driver from RME. Why do you need a poor-quality WASAPI built in WIN? In your review, make sure that you do not confuse people.


The main way to confuse people is to say WASAPI is "poor-quality."  That is completely wrong.  I have some 20 to 30 DACs.  Most of them instantly plug-and-play and run exceptionally reliable using WASAPI.

In contrast when you install ASIO you are at the mercy of whoever gave you that software.  In ASR Forum we have a member who is getting noise with ASIO and DSD but not with WASAPI.

With UAC2 standard now available in all three major desktop platforms: Linux, Mac and Windows, hardware companies need to support this properly to allow automatic plug-and-play support.  ASIO is fine if you have a DAW and want to capture.  But for just playback, there must not be any requirements to go hunt around for ASIO drivers to install.

You may not know this but I used to be VP of digital media division ast Microsoft.  For every release of Windows we would sort through all the crash reports from customers and try to fix them.  At the top of the list was third-party drivers.  They run as part of the kernel and can do serious damage to stability of the operating system.

Operating systems evolve and with it, they can break compatibility with the past.  You don't want to buy a $1,000 DAC and if the company goes out of business, be stuck with a door stop with a new version of the OS where the driver won't install.

And it is not just drivers.  Invariably these things install crapware and other processes that start on each reboot.  Right now on my machine I have four of them: one from Exasound, one from Meridian, one for Berkeley Alpha USB, and one for RME.  I didn't ask or want any of this to be in there, slowing down my machine boot time.   Here is what happens when I try to uninstall the Theyscon drivers supplied by Berkeley:





That's right.  I can't even install the darn thing because it fails Windows version check!

When I plug in a keyboard or mouse it just works.  I don't have to install drivers and certainly don't have to deal with programs getting installed on my machine.  DACs must work the same way.  The era of forcing driver installs on Windows for basic DAC functionality is over.

After some 40 years in computer industry, I know the issues here and am going to use my influence to make things better for consumers.  So please don't tell me things that are not technically true.   WASAPI works, is driver free, and bit-exact.


----------



## amirm

bidn said:


> Hi amirm,
> 
> thank you so much for your rigorous, consistent tests and for these excellent news about the RME ADI 2 DAC, especially for me as a relatively early owner of the RME ADI-2 Pro and as I ave been recommending it (als also its little brother when it came out) on head-fi. This coming just a few days after Virta Fortuna announced that the SP1000cu was tested to be the best DAP hje ever tested, even over the SP1000SS, again excellent news for me... ( https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dap-score-chart.874423/#post-14099475 ).
> 
> ...


Hi Bidn.  Thanks for the kind words.  As I indicated in my review, I have used Madiface to change sample rates.  But that is not practical for me.  I have digital downloads at many sample rates and I can't manually intervene and change the rate for every song that plays.  There needs to be an "auto" mode in there where switching occurs just like it does in other platforms and for ASIO.  It is not like there is an advantage to having this manual switch.


----------



## amirm

johnreekie said:


> Use RME's ASIO driver -
> 
> 
> 
> (That the ADI-2 Pro but I believe the ADI-2 DAC will be the same.)


I know and I used and tested the RME ADI-2 DAC that way:





The point is that it should not require ASIO to play USB music at multiple sample rates.  THe device is UAC2 compliant so should work like any other DAC by advertising all the sample rates it supports.  Right now it says it can only do one sample rate which doesn't match what the device does.


----------



## amirm

lowvolume said:


> A discussion needs at least two people. Luckbad is one person, he mentioned the driver's behavior in his own review (said post on page 1). 'I see you all discussed' implies that _several_ posters _discussed_ this issue throughout this thread (multiple posts). Which was not the case, unless I missed those posts. Clear now?


Clear?  Are you joking with me?  First you are being so pedantic by arguing about this.  But importantly, you yourself engaged in that conversation with him on this topic:





--------------

That is the back and forth that I read and noted that it was discussed.  Now you want to argue that more people had to argue about it for me to say that?  Isn't here something more constructive you could do with your time and mine than this empty back and forth?


----------



## johnreekie

RME are known in the pro sound industry for the quality of their drivers. Some issue with Thesycon/Berkeley hardly seems relevant.


----------



## amirm

johnreekie said:


> RME are known in the pro sound industry for the quality of their drivers. Some issue with Thesycon/Berkeley hardly seems relevant.


I haven't said something is wrong with their drivers today.  I have said that years from now the driver install package may no longer work and they may have no interest in updating it.  They could also get acquired by another company and team disbanded.  This is not a cheap, throwaway DAC to take such chances with it.

Right now they have a working UAC2 firmware/class-driver support that works reliably just the same.  But for some darn reason they only expose one sample rate.  Anyone on Mac or Linux can use the thing without installing drivers.  But on Windows, not only do you have to install drivers, but you also need to make sure your application supports ASIO.  There is no sense in that.

I honestly don't see why you all think we are better off with this limitation.  Use ASIO all you want.  I like to see driverless support for latests versions of Windows that allows bit perfect playback like $20 DACs do.


----------



## hola

Quick question for ADI-2DAC's owners:

Did your unit arrive in plastic wrap? Mine is, but the plastic bag containing the cable is ripped open, with the cable taken out. Also, the DAC is not in its default setting, suggesting someone played with it and put it back in the box. Add to the fact that the seller have four negative feedback over the past 12 months of selling used unit as new, I suspect that they sold me an open-box unit, but then wrap it in plastic and sold it as new.

Sorry for the off-topic question but I would appreciate feedback! Thanks!


----------



## kundica

amirm said:


> I haven't said something is wrong with their drivers today.  I have said that years from now the driver install package may no longer work and they may have no interest in updating it.  They could also get acquired by another company and team disbanded.  This is not a cheap, throwaway DAC to take such chances with it.
> 
> Right now they have a working UAC2 firmware/class-driver support that works reliably just the same.  But for some darn reason they only expose one sample rate.  Anyone on Mac or Linux can use the thing without installing drivers.  But on Windows, not only do you have to install drivers, but you also need to make sure your application supports ASIO.  There is no sense in that.
> 
> I honestly don't see why you all think we are better off with this limitation.  Use ASIO all you want.  I like to see driverless support for latests versions of Windows that allows bit perfect playback like $20 DACs do.


It might be worth posting in the RME forums regarding this concern. RME is typically quite responsive and might provide their reasoning or even make changes in a future driver update.


----------



## amirm

kundica said:


> It might be worth posting in the RME forums regarding this concern. RME is typically quite responsive and might provide their reasoning or even make changes in a future driver update.


Thanks.  As I noted in my review, I had already contacted RME and asked them to pass on the message to their R&D folks back home.


----------



## Phoniac

amirm said:


> I haven't said something is wrong with their drivers today.  I have said that years from now the driver install package may no longer work and they may have no interest in updating it.



You mean like Microsoft?



amirm said:


> Right now they have a working UAC2 firmware/class-driver support that works reliably just the same.  But for some darn reason they only expose one sample rate.



For some reason you continue to mix up the facts over and over again. Their UAC2 support does not expose one sample rate, but all. That is why 



amirm said:


> Anyone on Mac or Linux can use the thing without installing drivers.



The question that you try not to throw up is: why doesn't it work without drivers under Windows? Because your former collegues still have problems to add industry-standard level of support for UAC2 into Windows? I'lll gladly answer that for you: YES.


----------



## pororom

Hello friends!

It has gone through many dacs connected to a CD transport (in my case, a Cyrus CDT). When the Cyrus showed signs of starting to fail I decided to park and venture to the direct connection to my Mac Mini through the USB port.
It's been a long time since I stopped testing with dacs and I acquired and I have my reference DAC, a Bel Canto DAC 1.5 (for me, its natural sound capacity is another world)

My team is the following:

Mac Mini end of 2012 (16Gb RAM)
Playback software (upsampling enabled) Mounts 4 luxe (24/88) and Audirvana + (24/96)
Transparent USB Cable Audio Performance
Dac Bel Canto 1.5
JPS Labs interconnect cables
Amplifier Rega Elicit-R
Floor Standing monitors Audiovector SR3 super
Listen to Classical Music and Jazz

I will expose my doubts ...

I want to take advantage of the possibility of uploading the sample up to 192 Kbps of my players (Amarra and Audirvana) since I understand that there is a gain in hearing and I think I have two options:

1) Acquire a USB / SPDIF interface to take advantage of the entry SPDIF Bel Canto that accepts 192 Kbps (it would be the cheapest option, here I need a good interface, maybe Wyred 4 ulink sound + audioquest audio cable) but that represents around of 400 -500 USD spending, between the interface and cable and more things on the desktop ...

2) Buy a new DAC! I am among the 2 options that are within my reach:

Chord 2Qute in 1000 USD but old ... and the new *RME ADI-2 DAC* in 1000 USD too.

After all this roll that I just told, my big question comes:

Do you think I would get a real improvement with the change of Dac? Which of the 2 seems more views indicated my preferences?

I lean towards the RME because the AK chip that I've always liked a lot when I've listened to it implemented in mini dacs for Iems, versatility (I can connect my audio JH Iems Rosie and Michelle) but I do not know if it's comparable in terms of naturalness and musicality to the signature of Bel Canto.

I know you may tell me, buy a new Bel Canto, but I'm going to budget ... I want to spend 1000 USD maximum to improve and renew, no more or stay as I am if the improvement will not be noticed!


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Apr 9, 2018)

amirm said:


> I haven't said something is wrong with their drivers today.  I have said that years from now the driver install package may no longer work and they may have no interest in updating it.  They could also get acquired by another company and team disbanded.  This is not a cheap, throwaway DAC to take such chances with it.
> 
> Right now they have a working UAC2 firmware/class-driver support that works reliably just the same.  But for some darn reason they only expose one sample rate.  Anyone on Mac or Linux can use the thing without installing drivers.  But on Windows, not only do you have to install drivers, but you also need to make sure your application supports ASIO.  There is no sense in that.
> I honestly don't see why you all think we are better off with this limitation.  Use ASIO all you want.  I like to see driverless support for latests versions of Windows that allows bit perfect playback like $20 DACs do.



You yourself are to blame that many did not understand what you wanted to say..
I suggest that you make changes to your review adding Roon with ASIO and next Roon with WASAPI and also for  and Linux there too as with ASIO.
p.s. And then give the choice to the people that he wants to use ASIO or WASAPI.Ne need to determine for him.

And so your review is certainly excellent if it were not for this one-sided description of the driver. Thank you for reviewing your review with excellent measurements!

*ASIO win10 Roon*




WASAPI win10 Roon

Manually set the desired frequency.



P.S.
Answer support PME.
_Please let us start with correct statements. The driver does support Wasapi in Windows 10. But the driver lacks the capability to let applications change the sample rate, so you have to manually do this in the driver's Settings dialog. This is caused by the driver being capable of multi-channel, multi-client WDM/ASIO operation as well as multi-interface usage. The driver was not designed and built to support just two channels of playback. 

 And this will not change. Please use ASIO for automatic sample rate changes. 

 ASIO also has the advantage to support sample rates above 384 kHz, not screwing up Windows' Audio Enhancements above 192 kHz sample rate, and not needing workarounds to support higher DSD rates by packing more data into half the sample rate (768 kHz = DSD256) _


----------



## strojo

hola said:


> Quick question for ADI-2DAC's owners:
> 
> Did your unit arrive in plastic wrap? Mine is, but the plastic bag containing the cable is ripped open, with the cable taken out. Also, the DAC is not in its default setting, suggesting someone played with it and put it back in the box. Add to the fact that the seller have four negative feedback over the past 12 months of selling used unit as new, I suspect that they sold me an open-box unit, but then wrap it in plastic and sold it as new.
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic question but I would appreciate feedback! Thanks!




Yes...the outer box was completely wrapped/sealed in plastic that I had to remove to get into the box.  The cable bag was sealed as well.


----------



## jerick70

hola said:


> Quick question for ADI-2DAC's owners:
> 
> Did your unit arrive in plastic wrap? Mine is, but the plastic bag containing the cable is ripped open, with the cable taken out. Also, the DAC is not in its default setting, suggesting someone played with it and put it back in the box. Add to the fact that the seller have four negative feedback over the past 12 months of selling used unit as new, I suspect that they sold me an open-box unit, but then wrap it in plastic and sold it as new.
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic question but I would appreciate feedback! Thanks!


FWIW I spoke to RME and they said that they will honor the warranty if the unit has been used or not.  The warranty is transferable.


----------



## cardeli22

jerick70 said:


> FWIW I spoke to RME and they said that they will honor the warranty if the unit has been used or not.  The warranty is transferable.


"The warranty is transferable" is the best sound anyone in this hobby can hear. Now I really want one.


----------



## jerick70

cardeli22 said:


> "The warranty is transferable" is the best sound anyone in this hobby can hear. Now I really want one.


I purchased a ADI-2 Pro for a lot less than retail and wanted to make sure it wasn't black market so I contacted RME-USA.  Found out it was purchased by a rep for demos and had been used.  RME said that they would honor the warranty that was left on the unit.


----------



## NickedWicked

jerick70 said:


> I purchased a ADI-2 Pro for a lot less than retail and wanted to make sure it wasn't black market so I contacted RME-USA.  Found out it was purchased by a rep for demos and had been used.  RME said that they would honor the warranty that was left on the unit.



I doubt you’ll even need it, RME makes their stuff to last forever, I’ve had some previous RME racks and they lasted years without a single problem whatsoever. Quality control on the units is also outstanding!


----------



## pororom (Apr 11, 2018)

I'm about to shoot, but *I have a fundamental doubt*.
My idea is to connect it as my DAC Bel Canto, that is:
Bel Canto unbalanced RCA output is connected to the Rega Elicit-R stereo amplifier integrated by one of its analog RCA inputs and I control the volume from my amplifier.
The Bel Canto I have to have it in fixed output mode and with its volume at 100 (the maximum)
How should I configure the RME?


----------



## hotteen

Quick question about ASIO driver: Could someone be so kind to tell me where to get RME's one? I know Asio4All might work, but I also read that RME have their own ASIO driver. Can't find that in their download page, so I wonder if someone can tell me where to get it. 

Thanks!


----------



## jerick70

hotteen said:


> Quick question about ASIO driver: Could someone be so kind to tell me where to get RME's one? I know Asio4All might work, but I also read that RME have their own ASIO driver. Can't find that in their download page, so I wonder if someone can tell me where to get it.
> 
> Thanks!


Hi hotteen,

What country are you in?


----------



## jerick70

hotteen said:


> Quick question about ASIO driver: Could someone be so kind to tell me where to get RME's one? I know Asio4All might work, but I also read that RME have their own ASIO driver. Can't find that in their download page, so I wonder if someone can tell me where to get it.
> 
> Thanks!


FYI to save you time here is the download link from RME's USA site....

https://www.rme-usa.com/adi-2-dac.h...drivers/USB/Win/driver_madiface_win_09653.zip


----------



## johnreekie

"Please download the latest driver from the RME web-site at http://rme.to/usbe, driver_madiface_win_09609.zip or newer."

(Page 38 of the user manual.)


----------



## pororom (Apr 12, 2018)

Can you help me with my question please?

I'm about to shoot, but *I have a fundamental doubt*.

My idea is to connect it as my DAC Bel Canto, that is:

Bel Canto unbalanced RCA output is connected to the Rega Elicit-R stereo amplifier integrated by one of its analog RCA inputs and I control the volume from my amplifier.

The Bel Canto I have to have it in fixed output mode and with its volume at 100 (the maximum)

 I do not want to use the volume of the dac, the route would be mac mini + RME by USB + integrated amplifier Rega Elicit-R connected to the RME by unbalanced RCA and use the volume control of the Rega amplifier (this is what I do now with my Bel Canto with fixed output)

The instructions of Bel Canto:

"Pressing the Fixed / Variable Output switch on the rear panel to the input position sets the DAC1.5 to a fixed output operating mode.

This mode is used when driving an analog preamplifier or an integrated amplifier input. The volume control function is provided by the associated preamplifier or integrated amplifier.

To use the fixed Ouput mode, set the output level to 100.0 for a maximum level of 2 Vrms of the RCA outputs or to the 4 Vrms level for the balanced XLR outputs If you want the outputs to be set to a lower level, adjust the volume control to a lower level, for example, at approximately 2 Vrms from the balanced outputs, set the volume control to 94.0.This represents an output level of approximately 2 Vrms on the balanced outputs When the level is set, press the Fixed / Variable Output button on the rear panel The front panel display now Selected entry. Turning the knob will move to the different inputs and Volume and Mute functions on the remote control will not work."

How should I configure the RME?


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Apr 12, 2018)

Read the instructions.
http://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dac_e.pdf


----------



## Boerd

I am torn between this DAC (RME DAC2) and the coming generation of THX DACs. Any advice?


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Apr 13, 2018)

A new  overview of ADI2 DAC 
http://www.hardwaremax.net/reviews/desktop-audio/1480-test-rme-adi-2-dac?showall=&start=1


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Apr 13, 2018)

A new  overview of ADI2 DAC
studio-magazin.de
http://www.rme-audio.de/download/StudioMagazin_ADI2DAC_d.pdf


----------



## trybeingarun

AudioQuality777 said:


> A new excellent overview of ADI2 DAC from 11. 04.2018.
> http://www.hardwaremax.net/reviews/desktop-audio/1480-test-rme-adi-2-dac?showall=&start=1


It's a good all in one unit and I love this little guy. The review was more like a writeup of the reviewer's experience with the unit. It doesn't compare the unit with anything else to start a dialog.
To me, the amp though definitely serviceable, is not good enough for long term use. When paired with the 560, the 560 sounds thin and sibilant and isn't a nice experience (to me). The 600 does fair better, but there's a little bit of harshness to it. The worst 'sin' the amp commits is, it makes the sound a bit closed, as opposed to Liquid Carbon or the Ember. It's also a wee bit cold sounding, but I'm nit picking at this point.

In terms of usability, it too a while for me to get used to the controls. Esp. pressing buttons instead of rotating volume button, to go up and down the menu was a little weird. I've gotten used to it since, so no issue now. Remote feels pretty nice and is a plus. I would have liked to have a couple of more customizable buttons there. It only makes sense as the USP of this unit is the ability to customize.
If there was a auto turn-off feature, I would have loved it.

To me the positives are. Its size makes it comfortable for both home and office use. The SQ is good with the internal amp and with an external amp it jumps one step further. The DSP features are definitely a plus to those who like to constantly tweak things. On the whole I'm satisfied with the RME


----------



## AudioQuality777

*trybeingarun*

What do you use, which system, player, usb or coaxial?
The filter of the NOS was turned on?


----------



## trybeingarun (Apr 13, 2018)

I used two setups mainly.
Mac (Audirvana) -> (bluejeans) usb -> RME dac -> RME amp | Liquid Carbon | Ember -> HE560 | HD6XX | HD600 | Fostex TX0
Linux (Deadbeef) -> usb | coax -> RME dac -> RME amp | Liquid Carbon | Ember -> HE560 | HD6XX | HD600 | Fostex TX0
USB and spdif both sounded equally good to my ears.
As for filters I see myself gravitating towards the sd-slow or slow filters. Of the 5 filters, NOS is the one that sounds most unlike any other and I wasn't sure I liked the sound as well.
I also have all DSPs turned off most of the time.


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Apr 13, 2018)

trybeingarun said:


> I used two setups mainly.
> Mac (Audirvana) -> (bluejeans) usb -> RME dac -> RME amp | Liquid Carbon | Ember -> HE560 | HD6XX | HD600 | Fostex TX0
> Linux (Deadbeef) -> usb | coax -> RME dac -> RME amp | Liquid Carbon | Ember -> HE560 | HD6XX | HD600 | Fostex TX0
> USB and spdif both sounded equally good to my ears.
> ...


I'm just surprised when you wrote that you heard sibilants and a little bass. It happens usually with a silver cable or a computer cable. But you did not notice the silver cables. I use Win10 with the jriver and there is not at all a hint of sibilants and the sound is exactly neutral and not at all light coloured..NOS filter is the darkest and bassiest.


----------



## trybeingarun (Apr 13, 2018)

AudioQuality777 said:


> I'm just surprised when you wrote that you heard sibilants and a little bass. It happens usually with a silver cable or a computer cable. But you did not notice the silver cables. I use Win10 with the jriver and there is not at all a hint of sibilants and the sound is exactly neutral and not at all light coloured..NOS filter is the darkest and bassiest.


It tries to be neutral, I have no doubt about it. To my ears it's just not as smooth sounding as the LC or the ember. Neither LC or the ember are neutral per-se and they add some thickness, which I like.
Also, the amp isn't run of the mill, junk amp that got added just to show it in a feature list. It's good for what it is. It can't compete with decent mid tier SS amps and tube amps, which I guess fine.


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Apr 13, 2018)

It is completely neutral and clean, it's perfectly audible if the hearing is unspoiled by the wrong tonal balance in previous amplifiers. It's possible to listen honestly as recorded in the studio. In contrast to the greatly spoiling and coloring lamp amplifiers. With this, there's nothing to be done. If you do not like recording like it there is that is neutral and correct. What does PME do. Another question if yt is not a neutral reproduction but colored like in tube amplifiers. It's a matter of taste. PME does not have problems with low bass, because it's possible to adjust the equalizer for what's needed. Or use tone compensation if neochen wants to fiddle with the settings. In the article above, it was actually described how to build under specific headphones. If you do not want to understand this RME here is not guilty.It's also a big difference when you connect a linear power supply to a transformer. The sound is completely analog and the scene is wide.
I also compared Linux and WIN10 with jriver. The second option is much more detailed.On the other DAC type Teac 503 was vice versa. PME has very good win10 drivers.


----------



## trybeingarun (Apr 13, 2018)

Me having different preferences from you makes neither one of us right or wrong. Also when I say I find RME's amp to be a (wee bit) harsh, I mean it. I want it to sound extremely smooth as I own it; but to me it just doesn't and am fine with it. I'm really happy with the dac section and it's overall compactness. I'm happy for anyone who finds RME's amp to be perfect for their use; they don't have to buy an additional amp. $$ saved


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## AudioQuality777 (Apr 13, 2018)

I understand you. But I see that you do not fully use the possibilities of RME dsp.
Therefore I emphasize eto.A that the tastes of all races in this you are right!


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 14, 2018)

Anybody compared adi-2 DAC to Gumby?


----------



## trybeingarun

Before I bought RME I had a chance to check the Gumby Gen 3 (with Lynx AES connection) and the RME. We were trying to test a RJM Sapphire V4 build one of our friends built. So the focus wan't to compare Gumby and RME specifically. So no A/B testing etc. The 4 people assembled there felt that RME's dac was very capable and it was quite fast and most importantly had a very organic and clean sound. The bass was definitely tighter than the Gumby; neither exhibited any harshness; and mids were sweet in either. The biggest difference was stage width. While Gumby gave a pretty wide presentation RME's was nice and tight. What each one of us liked was down to ones preference.
In fact, it was after that experience I bought the RME myself. It was comparable (to my ears; may be others might find more difference) to Gumby in terms of dac. I loved its compactness and the additional features (amp, ton of dsp etc) were just a bonus, given I was primarily looking for a dac.


----------



## johnreekie

trybeingarun said:


> When paired with the 560, the 560 sounds thin and sibilant and isn't a nice experience (to me).



Hi, the HE-560 is a different animal when EQed. These EQ settings might be a useful starting point if you wanted to try:

B 1, G +4.0, F 120, Q 0.7, SHELF
B 2, G +6.0, F 1.90k, Q 1.2, PEAK
B 3, G -7.0, F 4.0k, Q 3.0, PEAK
B 4, G -6.0, F 10.5k, Q 3.0, PEAK


----------



## Ckfung

Just got my rem adi2dac.
sound quality is first class.
But, I have a problem that my Sinology NAS cannot recognize the DAC.
I have no such problem with Teac ud503,Oppo HA1,Denon DA310usb.


----------



## chungjun (Apr 17, 2018)

Anyone know where I can get this in Singapore?

EDIT: From my search, looks like it is not readily available for distribution in Singapore. May have to order from overseas or international websites (e.g. Thomann.de etc)


----------



## 12Jewelz

Random question to anyone that could help. I've read the threads regarding the Harmon Response Curve for headphones that they have measured. I'm still lost as to how to adjust my headphones to best achieve a flat response (Audeze EL-8 Open btw). I guess my question is what eq settings are some of you using based on the type of headphones you have? (Gosh I hope this all makes sense lol)


----------



## Dogmatrix

12Jewelz said:


> Random question to anyone that could help. I've read the threads regarding the Harmon Response Curve for headphones that they have measured. I'm still lost as to how to adjust my headphones to best achieve a flat response (Audeze EL-8 Open btw). I guess my question is what eq settings are some of you using based on the type of headphones you have? (Gosh I hope this all makes sense lol)


Specifics depend on your ears so you will have to experiment
I find it best to eq by deduction so if you have a headphone with weak midrange reduce the bass and treble or if you want to increase bass roll off everything else 
Best thing is with these rme masterpieces you can try whatever you like and easily return to normal


----------



## Henley2

Has anyone compared the Adi directly to the Lynx Hilo?


----------



## Ckfung (Apr 21, 2018)

Today I try to use an 12V LPS.
the image and sound stage are really improved.
Maybe a cleaner power supply can make the internal "femto second clock" running in a better way, even though the REM claimed the Adi2dac can clean up dirty power by its internal filter.


----------



## occamsrazor

Ckfung said:


> Today I try to use an 12V LPS.
> the image and sound stage are really improved.
> Maybe a cleaner power supply can make the internal "femto second clock" running in a better way, even though the REM claimed the Adi2dac can clean up dirty power by its internal filter.



Which LPS?


----------



## Ckfung (Apr 21, 2018)

12V Li ion BATTERY PACK.


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Apr 23, 2018)

Henley2 said:


> Has anyone compared the Adi directly to the Lynx Hilo?


There is no particular difference in sound between AD2 PRO & ADI2 DAC.
From this site www.just-hifi.com
Originally Posted by *k1n0n3*
_I just picked up an ADI-2 PRO myself. Not sure what you mean by "maybe" sounds better than the Mojo. I have a Benchmark DAC2, which IMO blows the Mojo away fairly easily. With that said, the ADI-2 PRO will be replacing my Benchmark DAC2 and ADC1 USB combo. I am very impressed with RME's work on this unit, I feel like the ADI-2 PRO and the DAC2 are on the same level, can't decide on a clear winner, but I like the convenience of having AD/DA in one box (works as preamp as well with analog in if not doing AD). I have also compared the DAC2 with the Lynx Hilo a while back, for the same type of all in one solution, but to my ears, the Hilo's DA was nowhere close to the Benchmark_


----------



## AudioQuality777 (Apr 23, 2018)

The difference between ADI2 & ADI2 *FS*


----------



## rhern213

Hey all, I'm wondering if anyone has done an A/B comparison with the Bimby and RME ADI-2 DAC? 

I'm currently doing the comparison myself with these two and would like to share notes if anyone else has done the same. I'm having the toughest time hearing any difference between the two whatsoever and am trying to decide on which one to keep.

Maybe point out specific tracks and note what to listen for and hear a difference?

I love all the added features of the ADI-2 but feel like that honeymoon stage of fiddling with settings will die after I finish setting it up how I want, and then think I didn't need to spend double the price for it if I can't perceive any difference.

Thanks!


----------



## gepardcv

If you can’t hear a difference with the ADI2 set to neutral settings, it should not be surprising. DAC differences are wildly overhyped. But once you turn on the ADI2’s equalizer or use the loudness feature, there will be audible FR changes. IOW, if you like non-neutral settings, you won’t be able to replicate them with the Bimby. I haven’t done a formal level-matched comparison between the ADI2 and my other DACs yet (it just arrived a few days ago), but I have been enjoying the ability to adjust the FR curve, and it makes quite a bit of audible difference.

I recommend pulling up the FR curve for your headphones (try InnerFidelity) and adjusting the ADI2 equalizer so headphone+FR matches the Harman curve (as a starting point). Then do a level-matched comparison with the Bimby. Unless you have headphones which already closely match that curve, there should be a difference. I can try to list some tracks with examples if you need help, but most well-mastered material which strays outside pure mids should work.


----------



## rhern213 (Apr 24, 2018)

I haven't tried touching the EQ yet, I wanted to first see how everything compared completely neutral. I'm going to try exactly that by looking up the headphone curves and setting the EQ to match. My main thing was to see if I'm just not listening or paying attention to the right things in a track to identify any differences in these 2 DACs. Up to now with most other DAC's (cheaper) I've heard an immediate difference, but these 2 for my ears sound mostly indistinguishable

Also one other question I had with the ADI-2 is if there's a widely accepted volume level when in Line Out that should be set. I read previously that it should be set at 0db, but that seems too high when I listen to it and the on-screen meters are always hitting the red/over. It seems for me to most closely match the Bimby volume level I have to set it at about -4db.


----------



## Captain_Future

Hi all, i got my ADI-2 DAC last monday, and after i unboxed it, i noticed that it makes a ticking sound when i shake it gently. It sounds like a there is a loose cable that hits the casing or something else. IMO that shouldn't happen on a 1000 euro device. Does anyone of you have that sound too, when shaking the device? I still have a week to return it to Thomann.de. Maybe i upload a video of it after my first post has been approved.


----------



## lowvolume

LOL! Put your finger on the 4 front buttons before shaking...


----------



## Captain_Future

lowvolume said:


> LOL! Put your finger on the 4 front buttons before shaking...


Well, i put my finger on the volume, bass and treble knob before i shaked, but did't try out to put finger on the 4 buttons... I'm at work right now and gonna test this as soon as i'm back home and then give report.


----------



## koven

Why would you shake it anyway?


----------



## phthora

koven said:


> Why would you shake it anyway?



lol Exactly my first thought.

Maybe he is using this thing as a portable DAC/amp?


----------



## Ckfung (Apr 29, 2018)

Now, my adi2dac is connected to desktop PC.
I am satisfied by the resulting sound quality.
If I want to upgrade the source, can something like Mutec mc3 usb ,Ifi iusb3.0 , Sotm sms 200 or Auralic Aries further improve the final sound quality?
Some people say the adi2dac can immune the incoming noisy usb signal.That make me hesitate to buy these gadgets.


----------



## NickedWicked

Ckfung said:


> Now, my adi2dac is connected to desktop PC.
> I am satisfied by the resulting sound quality.
> If I want to upgrade the source, can something like Mutec mc3 usb ,Ifi iusb3.0 , Sotm sms 200 or Auralic Aries further improve the final sound quality?
> Some people say the adi2dac can immune the incoming noisy usb signal.That make me hesitate to buy these gadgets.



I wouldn’t bother, with FS SteadyClock introduced it’s quite far below in jitter compared to USB decrapifiers and is even far below the industrial standard. If anything they will worsen the situation, a remarkable achievement by RME.


----------



## hotteen (May 1, 2018)

jerick70 said:


> FYI to save you time here is the download link from RME's USA site....
> 
> https://www.rme-usa.com/adi-2-dac.h...drivers/USB/Win/driver_madiface_win_09653.zip



Thanks. Turns out I already have it. I thought there's another driver that get around switching bit rate manually.

And is it really the case that one have to switch things manually, in order for playback to be bit perfect? I know that things still play even without switching anything, but I personally would prefer no resampling (at least not done by the driver).

And what about driver-less sources like mobile devices and disc players? There is no driver with those sources, so how's playback done?


----------



## gepardcv

The ADI-2 uses the USB Audio Class 2 standard (also known as UAC2, not to be confused with USB 2, the data bus standard). iOS, Android, Linux, and macOS support it out of the box, no manufacturer-provided drivers needed. Microsoft finally added UAC2 support to Windows 10 last year, but that driver does not work with the ADI-2 for mysterious reasons. Whether it was Microsoft or RME who violated the standard more, I do not know. Unfortunately, the official RME driver Windows also sucks: not only does it require awkward sample rate switching, but it also causes dropouts when the unit runs through a (powered) USB hub.


----------



## Luckbad (May 1, 2018)

hotteen said:


> Thanks. Turns out I already have it. I thought there's another driver that get around switching bit rate manually.
> 
> And is it really the case that one have to switch things manually, in order for playback to be bit perfect? I know that things still play even without switching anything, but I personally would prefer no resampling (at least not done by the driver).
> 
> And what about driver-less sources like mobile devices and disc players? There is no driver with those sources, so how's playback done?



What media application are you using? On JRiver it changes sample rate automatically. I believe it does for me on foobar2000 as well. EDIT: Confirmed that foobar2000 also changes sample rate for me automatically.


----------



## technobear

Luckbad said:


> What media application are you using? On JRiver it changes sample rate automatically. I believe it does for me on foobar2000 as well. EDIT: Confirmed that foobar2000 also changes sample rate for me automatically.


You just have to use ASIO to get the sample rate to change automatically.


----------



## AudioQuality777 (May 2, 2018)

gepardcv said:


> The ADI-2 uses the USB Audio Class 2 standard (also known as UAC2, not to be confused with USB 2, the data bus standard). iOS, Android, Linux, and macOS support it out of the box, no manufacturer-provided drivers needed. Microsoft finally added UAC2 support to Windows 10 last year, but that driver does not work with the ADI-2 for mysterious reasons. Whether it was Microsoft or RME who violated the standard more, I do not know. Unfortunately, the official RME driver Windows also sucks: not only does it require awkward sample rate switching, but it also causes dropouts when the unit runs through a (powered) USB hub.


Do not mislead people with fictitious problems!!!
If you installed the USB driver for the Win   *choose ASIO MADIFACE USB* (https://www.rme-usa.com/adi-2-dac.h...drivers/USB/Win/driver_madiface_win_09653.zip) all frequencies are switched perfectly and automatically personally checked (JRIVER, Footbar, TIDAL). Also the frequencies are excellent and automatically switch to Linux system without installing a third-party driver.
P.S. The driver of UAC2 from Win is imperfect and unfinished and when it is not done by Microsoft. Simple proof: MacOS, iOS and Linux work...
And this will not change. Please use ASIO for automatic sample rate changes.

ASIO also has the advantage to support sample rates above 384 kHz, not screwing up Windows' Audio Enhancements above 192 kHz sample rate, and not needing workarounds to support higher DSD rates by packing more data into half the sample rate (768 kHz = DSD256).


----------



## hotteen (May 2, 2018)

Luckbad said:


> What media application are you using? On JRiver it changes sample rate automatically. I believe it does for me on foobar2000 as well. EDIT: Confirmed that foobar2000 also changes sample rate for me automatically.



Roon.

EDIT: Got it. Didn't know that rather than RME ADI-2 DAC, I have to pick ASIO MADIFACE USB as source. Now it's bit-perfect playback. Thanks!


----------



## lenroot77

Just curious if anyone is using this without a PC connection? I’d be using optical and coax and I’m curious if I’d have any issues?


----------



## technobear

lenroot77 said:


> Just curious if anyone is using this without a PC connection? I’d be using optical and coax and I’m curious if I’d have any issues?


I've just finished watching my first movie with my new ADI-2 DAC and it faultlessly decoded the optical signal from my Panasonic PVR. It just works.

Earlier I spent a couple of hours exploring my music collection with the laptop over USB and even though fresh out of the box, this is one fine sounding DAC (once the NOS filter is engaged) although so far I have only listened through speakers (Rogers LS4a) and a Marantz PM6005. The PEQ is doing a great job sucking out the room boom. Nice musical sound. Not at all 'digital' in NOS mode.

When it has some hours on it, I'll add the LCD-X to see what it can really do.


----------



## wemedge

Thinking of getting the ADI-2 dac to feed into the McIntosh MHA100. If anyone has thoughts regarding this setup, any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## rhern213

One question for those playing with the EQ settings, has anyone noticed if the built in EQ is any kind of a better quality EQ than one from a PC media player like JRiver EasyQ?

Just curious if there's any implementation differences with the built-in EQ that would make it superior?


----------



## rhern213

wemedge said:


> Thinking of getting the ADI-2 dac to feed into the McIntosh MHA100. If anyone has thoughts regarding this setup, any comments would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!



I've heard the McIntosh but not in an A/B comparison so take it FWIW, but I don't really see any point in this honestly. The DAC in the McIntosh is excellent, and both are solid state so I highly doubt you'll hear any difference whatsoever.

Unless you want it for all the extra adjustment capabilities, but even then you're spending $1,000 just for that?


----------



## wemedge

rhern213 said:


> I've heard the McIntosh but not in an A/B comparison so take it FWIW, but I don't really see any point in this honestly. The DAC in the McIntosh is excellent, and both are solid state so I highly doubt you'll hear any difference whatsoever.
> 
> Unless you want it for all the extra adjustment capabilities, but even then you're spending $1,000 just for that?



Thanks for the input. I do realize that it is diminishing returns. One of the reasons I’m considering an external dac is that the mcintosh keeps dropping the usb connection. It’s a known issue, probably firmware. Hoping that this will solve it. Nothing else works, including powered usb hubs etc.

Also partly because I’m really curious about the RME. No excuse, really


----------



## jerick70

wemedge said:


> Thanks for the input. I do realize that it is diminishing returns. One of the reasons I’m considering an external dac is that the mcintosh keeps dropping the usb connection. It’s a known issue, probably firmware. Hoping that this will solve it. Nothing else works, including powered usb hubs etc.
> 
> Also partly because I’m really curious about the RME. No excuse, really


WOW!  Something that expensive dropping connections.  I would demand a refund or some sort of compensation.  That's inexcusable for premium kit like McIntosh.


----------



## rhern213

wemedge said:


> Thanks for the input. I do realize that it is diminishing returns. One of the reasons I’m considering an external dac is that the mcintosh keeps dropping the usb connection. It’s a known issue, probably firmware. Hoping that this will solve it. Nothing else works, including powered usb hubs etc.
> 
> Also partly because I’m really curious about the RME. No excuse, really



Alright I see, but yeah, what Jerick70 said.


----------



## jerick70

@wemedge you shouldn't have to work around an issue like this. It's a $4500 amp/dac. Get a refund.  Then pick up a Violectric V281 w/ the stepped attenuator and an ADI-2.  You'll have a fully balanced stack and money to spare. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## wemedge

jerick70 said:


> @wemedge you shouldn't have to work around an issue like this. It's a $4500 amp/dac. Get a refund.  Then pick up a Violectric V281 w/ the stepped attenuator and an ADI-2.  You'll have a fully balanced stack and money to spare. You won't be disappointed.



Indeed. Have contacted McIntosh.

Apologies for derailing the thread- back to the RME Adi-w dac!


----------



## NickedWicked

jerick70 said:


> @wemedge you shouldn't have to work around an issue like this. It's a $4500 amp/dac. Get a refund.  Then pick up a Violectric V281 w/ the stepped attenuator and an ADI-2.  You'll have a fully balanced stack and money to spare. You won't be disappointed.



What's the benefit of the stepped attenuator on the V281? I've been contemplating on returning my ADI-2 Pro, and instead go for the ADI-2 DAC with the V281 but I'm not quite sure if it's worth it.


----------



## jerick70

NickedWicked said:


> What's the benefit of the stepped attenuator on the V281? I've been contemplating on returning my ADI-2 Pro, and instead go for the ADI-2 DAC with the V281 but I'm not quite sure if it's worth it.



I have both the stepped attenuator and the standard. The sound is more refined, focused, balanced, and revealing. There is a microscopes view into the micro detail that wasn't there previously. I have a pair of Audeze LCD-3s that were unlistenable on the V281, at times, with the basic volume control. The sound was bloated and muddy at times. After installing the stepped attenuator the 3s SING!!!!! IMO the upgrade brought the V281 to another level.  YMMV.


----------



## technobear (May 5, 2018)

NickedWicked said:


> What's the benefit of the stepped attenuator on the V281? I've been contemplating on returning my ADI-2 Pro, and instead go for the ADI-2 DAC with the V281 but I'm not quite sure if it's worth it.


The performance of stepped attenuators begins where pots tail off. Less distortion. Less noise. Greater transparency. Better channel matching.


----------



## lowvolume (May 5, 2018)

technobear said:


> The performance of stepped attenuators begins where pots tail off. Less distortion. Less noise. Greater transparency. Better channel matching.



True. But even something simple as switched resistors can have a lot of pitfalls. I have seen several versions of stepped resistors and most of them were below what one expects from this technology. Don't know about the V281, but the new Niimbus seems to have an unbalanced stepped resistor design and is supposed to be above the 281. If you go high end then do it right, balanced, as in the new Benchmark HPA4. Else it looks like cheating to me.


----------



## strojo

Anyone tested whether they noticed a difference between SPDIF and USB sources?  I have a Bricasti M5 landing on Monday and can connect it either way.


----------



## gepardcv

I tried with an Eitr, don't hear a difference. Several measurements available elsewhere indicate that the ADI-2 USB input has excellent numbers, better than many (though likely not all) SPDIF implementations.


----------



## Ckfung

hello.
wonder if anyone try the Mutec mc3+ usb combining with the adi2dac?


----------



## ZenErik

Will have one of these in a few days. Pretty excited to try it out and compare it to my Metrum Onyx. I'm looking to downsize if things work out. I thought I was pretty set on NOS, honestly, but I'm getting the feeling I don't really need it considering half my listening each day is on my phone at work without any special DAC. The ADI-2 DAC seems to have features I might really enjoy. 

How does the pre-amp out volume control work? That's one thing I'm very interested in to get a little more play in my amps. The Pro iCan I am using now is supposedly best around 12 o clock according to iFi, but with the Onyx I can only go to a little above 9 at most. I'm curious about how the sound will be if I'm able to lower the volume on ADI-2 outputs enough to get the Pro iCan to around 12. The EQ is also something I am interested in Just to take a few dBs off treble peaks. Nothing major.


----------



## strojo

Anyone else having power plug issues?  With the slightest amount of wiggle on the PS connector, the red/green light goes out because the unit has lost power.


----------



## Luckbad

strojo said:


> Anyone else having power plug issues?  With the slightest amount of wiggle on the PS connector, the red/green light goes out because the unit has lost power.



It is a locking plug. You'll notice little metal wings on the plug itself. If you twist it clockwise as you insert, you'll find the socket and it'll lock in completely.


----------



## strojo

Luckbad said:


> It is a locking plug. You'll notice little metal wings on the plug itself. If you twist it clockwise as you insert, you'll find the socket and it'll lock in completely.



Thank you.  Never seen that kind of connector before on my other RME gear.  <insert dumbass emoticon here>


----------



## ZenErik

@Luckbad Could you offer any comparisons between the Liquid Crimson and the ADI-2 DAC headphone out? Or if I missed some comparisons could someone point me in the right direction. I've been looking but may have missed some things. Thanks!

I'm curious, of course, because of the upcoming Liquid Platinum.

Should have my ADI-2 DAC in today!


----------



## Luckbad

Not comparable. The amp in the ADI-2 DAC is very good for IEMs and adequate to goodfor most headphones. The Liquid Crimson is a proper TOTL headphone amplifier.

I have high hopes for the Liquid Platinum and plan to acquire one as soon as they're available.


----------



## ninetylol

Hey there,

How would you compare the RME ADI 2 vs the Questyle CMA400i and why?


----------



## AudioQuality777 (May 17, 2018)

The newest review appeared on the web ADI2 DAC !!!
http://prosound.ixbt.com/interfaces/rme-adi2dac.shtml


----------



## VRacer-111 (May 16, 2018)

After reading up on it the last few days I went ahead an put in an order for the RME ADI-2 DAC. It will simplify my STAX rig, replacing 3 components (Gustard X20U DAC, Schiit EITR, and Schiit Loki) and allowing for better EQing and adding crossfeed. Now I can move the X20U/EITR/Loki back to my dynamic/planar rig where they will be better suited...


----------



## Mizicke5273

Can anyone comment on the EQ compared to a Schiit Loki?  Particuarly with sub-bass and mid-bass?  I’m considering upgrading my DAC, as I just upgraded my amp to a La Figaro 339 and the ADI-2 is one of the DACs I am looking at.  I’m also looking at the Gustard X22 or X20 Pro and the Gumby.    If I can remove the Loki from the chain, that might another plus for the ADI-2; along with looks and size.  I think the ADI-2 is one good looking DAC.


----------



## gepardcv

Never tried the Loki, but the ADI-2 family implements a reasonably full-featured parametric equalizer. The Loki does not attempt to solve that problem. IOW, the ADI-2 gives far more granular control over the EQ, and can be set up to emulate Loki's behavior. Which device sounds better when they are set up to do exactly the same thing, I can't say.


----------



## AudioQuality777

The next review and measurement.

http://headflux.de/rme-adi-2-dac/


----------



## Mizicke5273

gepardcv said:


> Never tried the Loki, but the ADI-2 family implements a reasonably full-featured parametric equalizer. The Loki does not attempt to solve that problem. IOW, the ADI-2 gives far more granular control over the EQ, and can be set up to emulate Loki's behavior. Which device sounds better when they are set up to do exactly the same thing, I can't say.



What about the max adjustments?  I am not familiar with parametric EQ, so I don't really understand the adjustments and what is possible.  The Loki has +/-12dB at 20Hz and 8kHz and +/-6dB at 400Hz and 2k.  With the ADI-2, I see it also offers simple EQ settings for bass and treble at +/- 6dB, what would the parametric adjustments equate to in +/- dB?


----------



## gepardcv

Mizicke5273 said:


> What about the max adjustments?  I am not familiar with parametric EQ, so I don't really understand the adjustments and what is possible.  The Loki has +/-12dB at 20Hz and 8kHz and +/-6dB at 400Hz and 2k.  With the ADI-2, I see it also offers simple EQ settings for bass and treble at +/- 6dB, what would the parametric adjustments equate to in +/- dB?


Fully explaining PEQ is beyond the scope of a forum post. I'm sure you can search around for details. Briefly, however, it lets you set a target frequency, its gain, and its width (called Q). So you basically select the frequency you want to adjust, then you decide how much adjustment you want, and then how adjacent frequencies should be affected. A small Q will affect more frequencies, creating a wider adjustment, and a large Q will affect fewer frequencies, creating a narrower peak or trough. A PEQ will allow you to do this in multiple bands. The ADI-2 DAC supports 5. So you make that frequency+gain+Q adjustment five times. The ADI-2 DAC allows gain changes of +/-12dB on each band. So you can easily recreate the behavior of the Loki by using four of the available bands, if you can figure out the corresponding Q numbers (it should be quite doable with a measurement rig, or you can make an educated guess by listening to the Loki's behavior as you adjust it).

The ADI-2 bass+treble controls are basically a simplified PEQ with just two bands, and a max gain of +/-6dB. You can change the frequencies on which they're centered, as well as their Q values (the defaults frequencies are 85Hz and 6.5kHz, I think, and I don't remember the Q values).

BTW, if you really do crank an equalizer too much, expect to hear some massive and nasty distortion.


----------



## Luckbad

TLDR: The equalizer on the RME units is significantly more powerful than a Loki. The only arguable advantage a Loki has is that it's analog instead of digital. The real advantage a Loki has is that it works with whatever you have.


----------



## Mizicke5273

Thank you gepardcv and Luckbad.  That answers my question.  And thank you for the brief explanation of parametric EQ gepardcv.  So the RME has three advantages over the other DACs I am looking at.


----------



## chungjun

Thinking of pulling the trigger on one... was checking out the RME forum and noticed this:-

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27060

A little unsettling as I'm also using Windows 10 machine (I know...), just wondering if anyone else facing the same issue or just an anomaly?


----------



## Luckbad

Seems unique to his system. Could be driver conflicts, bad USB ports, slow PC, etc. RME has one of two good USB implementations integrated into a DAC that I trust (Schiit Gen 5 being the other. Soekris is said to have good USB as well).

It's the first DAC in a long time that I actually use the USB instead of feeding it SPDIF.

I do have an Allegro USB card that I bought for no good reason (I wasn't getting dropouts in Windows 10).

Anyway, I generally see nothing but praise for the USB on this and other RME products. They make pro gear that has to be 100% reliable.


----------



## jerick70

strojo said:


> Anyone else having power plug issues?  With the slightest amount of wiggle on the PS connector, the red/green light goes out because the unit has lost power.


I'm running my ADI-2 Pro from a powered USB hub and have zero problems.  Most likely his computer.


----------



## strojo

jerick70 said:


> I'm running my ADI-2 Pro from a powered USB hub and have zero problems.  Most likely his computer.




Just didn't have the AC connector twisted in correctly.  All is good.


----------



## ZenErik

Good to hear things are resolved. I'm very impressed with RME's USB implementation. No issues. I've had more expensive DACs that are more finicky via USB due to inferior implementations.


----------



## jerick70

strojo said:


> Just didn't have the AC connector twisted in correctly.  All is good.


Good deal that you figured it out.


----------



## VRacer-111 (May 24, 2018)

Just got mine in this afternoon... picked it up and brought it to work. The Koss KPH30i has never sounded so good:







Haven't even bothered with any EQ yet, just Loudness and crossfeed on and tested out my Shure SE215, Monolith M1060, and TH-X00 Mahoganies as well. Volumes all roughly adjusted for all 3 outputs. Real test will begin when get home and try it on the STAX system, which is what I got it for.

Really am impressed with it so far, zero issues with USB - extremely great sounding right out the box. The amp section is pretty usuable... really nice. Not as good as my modded Gustard H10, but not that lacking compared to it either. Drives the M1060's VERY WELL!


----------



## Violent_Sneeze (Jun 3, 2018)

.


----------



## trybeingarun

Putting my RME ADI-2 Dac for sale. As good as the unit is, I realize that I'm not using most of the DSP functionality and always use an external amp and hence the decision.

Sale Link:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-rme-adi2-dac-in-india.880722/


----------



## Violent_Sneeze (Jun 3, 2018)

.


----------



## SAndreev

Got the unit yesterday, very impressed by build quality and driver quality. Plan to mostly use it as a DAC, with occasional headphone amp when I want solid state sound for my D7200. Preliminary impressions on the built in amp are very positive, but I need more time to test properly.


----------



## DaaDaa

just got mince. very impressed. cold be a keeper. honestly im tired of swapping gear and want to settle with the one to keep and its eaither this or Audio-gd D2R1


----------



## boxerlc

Here is my impression on RME adi-2 dac:

My system:

Major Component: PC(HQPLAYER)  -> 2qute or adi-2 dac -> AccurateAudio A281(I'm not proud of) -> HD800s

HQPlayer config: poly-sinc-xtr-2s DSD256 to adi-2 dac or DSD128 to 2qute

Source output mode: USB

Power supply: ifi ipower 12v and breeze linear power supply 12v.


Recently I became a hqplayer user, after feeling the difference it caused on 2qute, I decided to upgrade 2qute to a more DSD capable DAC. By looking through HQplayer's recommended hardware list, I found adi-2 dac, this relatively cheaper DAC. I read many good reviews about it, so I placed the order.

There was a conflict between hqplayer developer's idea and Chord dac's DSD implementation: to fully use hqplayer, you need to select the best possible filter and highest possible DSD format on a delta-sigma dac. On the other hand, to fully use chord dac's WTA filter, designer Rob Watts suggested do nothing to the original audio stream. Since I got improvement from HQplayer on a Chord DAC, I thought if I buy a comparable Delta-sigma DAC I should experience more improvement from it. I thought adi-2 might outperform the 2qute.

However, after days of comparison, I think these 2 dac are on the same level. They have the almost the same level of resolution, but difference is noticeable: adi-2 dac offers a slightly tighter sound, while the 2qute offers slightly more airy sound. 

In terms of personal preference, I like 2qute better, but if I had adi2-dac already, I wouldn't bother change it to 2qute. again, they are pretty close to my ears.

A little extra information:
The build quality of the adi-2 dac is the best I ever saw on audio equipment, everything feels so good and fun to play with. The manual is very detail and even educational. I also like the amp section of adi-2 dac very much. I paired it with Grado GH2, I got a detailed, clean and the most importantly a smooth and well controlled sound. I would recommend Grado user to try this one.


----------



## SAndreev

After a week with ADI 2 DAC I started using built-in amp a lot more and I quite like it. Very very impressive, especially given that it is paired with a really impressive DAC for the price.

And all the comments on build and manual quality are true, it is really well made. Thumbs up to German engineering.


----------



## simon740

Hello,

can I use ADI-2 DAC direct with power speakers? As a preamp.


----------



## boxerlc

simon740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> can I use ADI-2 DAC direct with power speakers? As a preamp.


Yes, you can, except one condition. If you are using direct dsd, the output level is fixed at the highest level and cannot be adjusted. If you use it to play pcm, you will be fine.


----------



## Quince0369

boxerlc said:


> Yes, you can, except one condition. If you are using direct dsd, the output level is fixed at the highest level and cannot be adjusted. If you use it to play pcm, you will be fine.



...but I could adjust it with the software dsd player, right?


----------



## simon740

boxerlc said:


> Yes, you can, except one condition. If you are using direct dsd, the output level is fixed at the highest level and cannot be adjusted. If you use it to play pcm, you will be fine.



I dont have any DSD files, only PCM. Hmm...this is very interesting.


----------



## boxerlc

Quince0369 said:


> ...but I could adjust it with the software dsd player, right?


Yes, however to enable volume adjustment on DSD playing, DSD stream will be converted to PCM stream for digital signal processing then converted back to dsd again. So technically you are not playing the original DSD file.


----------



## JamesCanada

Hey everyone.
I just got my hands on HD800S last week and this unit is on the top of the (short) list. 
Can anyone speak on this pairing. 
Also, I have a set of E-MU Treak's, if anyone has info on these, that would be appreciated.
Lastly, does anyone use this as a standalone unit? 
One more for the road: Does anyone regret their purchase?!

Thanks a ton


----------



## SAndreev (Jun 19, 2018)

I use it with my Denon 7200 (bio-cellulose drivers as well). I quite like it, the built-in amp is very decent. Maybe not as powerful to run HD800s, but I cannot comment on that as I don't have them. But the built in EQ is very very thorough, it might be useful with HD800s if you ever want to tune the sound to your liking (add more bass or tame any kind of peaks).


----------



## Leogaluc666 (Jun 19, 2018)

The AMP section is more than powerful enough to drive the HD800 which I have.


----------



## Coltblue

they are still in stock at this website. https://www.thomannmusic.com/rme_adi_2_dac.htm?ref=search_prv_9


----------



## Coltblue

Coltblue said:


> they are still in stock at this website. https://www.thomannmusic.com/rme_adi_2_dac.htm?ref=search_prv_9



picked one up on this site earlier today. with 2 day shipping to the us. https://sxpro.co.uk/rme-adi2-dac


----------



## Coltblue

I see some people are using an aftermarket power plug. Are there any recommended ones ?


----------



## jerick70

Coltblue said:


> I see some people are using an aftermarket power plug. Are there any recommended ones ?


Unless you are talking about the removable power cord for the external power supply, I think you would need to replace the entire power supply.  I'm not sure how much benefit you would get by doing this though.  RME is pretty meticulous in there engineering.

You could look at a linear power supply, which may make a difference.  I use this linear ps for a few of my dacs and have been happy with it. https://www.hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-200w-linear-power-supply-for-pc-audio-and-ce-device.html


----------



## Coltblue

jerick70 said:


> Unless you are talking about the removable power cord for the external power supply, I think you would need to replace the entire power supply.  I'm not sure how much benefit you would get by doing this though.  RME is pretty meticulous in there engineering.
> 
> You could look at a linear power supply, which may make a difference.  I use this linear ps for a few of my dacs and have been happy with it. https://www.hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-200w-linear-power-supply-for-pc-audio-and-ce-device.html


wow i didn't know they were that pricey. ill give it a long listen first, thanks. https://www.vinnierossi.com/mini/ saw this one too.


----------



## jerick70

Coltblue said:


> wow i didn't know they were that pricey. ill give it a long listen first, thanks. https://www.vinnierossi.com/mini/ saw this one too.


The thing I like about the HDPlex 200 watt power supply is the 5 independent DC rails it has.  It has a 2 - 5 vdc, 12 vdc, 19 vdc, and a variable 5 - 19 vdc rail.  So you can have 5 devices being powered by it at the same time.

You can pickup a linear power supply on ebay for inexpensive. Zero Zone seems to make some nice ones for a fair price.    https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZEROZONE-1...559186?hash=item1a129efd92:g:98IAAOSwzvlW96K~


----------



## Coltblue

jerick70 said:


> The thing I like about the HDPlex 200 watt power supply is the 5 independent DC rails it has.  It has a 2 - 5 vdc, 12 vdc, 19 vdc, and a variable 5 - 19 vdc rail.  So you can have 5 devices being powered by it at the same time.
> 
> You can pickup a linear power supply on ebay for inexpensive. Zero Zone seems to make some nice ones for a fair price.    https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZEROZONE-1...559186?hash=item1a129efd92:g:98IAAOSwzvlW96K~



ill keep it in mind. Thanks for the info!


----------



## JamesCanada

Leogaluc666 said:


> The AMP section is more than powerful enough to drive the HD800 which I have.



After this message = Cart Checkout


----------



## DaaDaa

buy mine then. it is new


----------



## JamesCanada

Order is placed since this morning


----------



## occamsrazor

Coltblue said:


> picked one up on this site earlier today. with 2 day shipping to the us. https://sxpro.co.uk/rme-adi2-dac



SXPro is a great outfit, I bought mine from there.


----------



## Coltblue

occamsrazor said:


> SXPro is a great outfit, I bought mine from there.


Absolutely, they were so helpful and pleasant. Like they actually care about customer service. I ordered mine this morning and it will be here tomorrow morning. All for $170 less than retail here.


----------



## Coltblue




----------



## Coltblue

Mine came with a euro power plug. I didn't know there were different variations. Had to get an American plug from best buy.


----------



## JamesCanada

Ooooo nice what cans will you be using??!
Congratz! Can’t wait to get mine


----------



## Coltblue

JamesCanada said:


> Ooooo nice what cans will you be using??!
> Congratz! Can’t wait to get mine


Dt 1990 pro for now. You are going to love it. Much more clean output power than I was expecting!


----------



## JamesCanada

Coltblue said:


> Dt 1990 pro for now. You are going to love it. Much more clean output power than I was expecting!



Seem’s like that is the word that is going around.
This DAC/Amp seems to be a steal for the performance/$ ratio
Can’t wait to get it!


----------



## i20bot (Jun 22, 2018)

Eww, they raised the price of this by $100 at Sweetwater.  Was gonna order one there and do interest free payments.

Looks like it's back ordered til August.


----------



## Coltblue

yes, and i live right by sweetwater. it was pretty disappointing. that is why i got it from https://sxpro.co.uk/rme-adi2-dac . they still have stock and i received it in one day. i dont know how but they did it.


----------



## tekkster

I've been talking to the Zen Audio Pro folks since I ordered it last month.

Last week he mentioned that RME raised the prices for all retailers, so it goes up $100 no matter where you order it.

Seems like guitar center is still the last holdout to get it for the previous $999 price.  After a couple more through guitar center though, I imagine even they will adjust to the new price.

---

Zen Audio Pro was supposed to have received my order from Asia yesterday.  Just called this morning and they haven't received it yet.  GRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Then again, Guitar Center has pushed back estimated delivery for back order to July 13th.  So I guess the RME ADI-2 is very popular.  It occurs to me that Chord generally bumps their products up by a couple of hundred dollars at regular intervals (guess for each production run), so maybe RME is doing the same.


----------



## ZenErik

I suppose $100 isn't a big deal, but I'm glad I got mine sooner than later. Still enjoying it a lot as an all in one. Glad this came along and canceled my never ending upgrade/sidegrade plans.


----------



## tekkster

ZenErik said:


> I suppose $100 isn't a big deal, but I'm glad I got mine sooner than later. Still enjoying it a lot as an all in one. Glad this came along and canceled my never ending upgrade/sidegrade plans.



Agreed, especially considering the jumps the h2 made over the pas year, a $100 hike isn’t too bad.
Still, glad i made the $999 mark in time.

I missed the $1995 mark for the h2, but got the $2195 order in before the jump to $2395 and now it’s $2695.  Yikes.


----------



## Coltblue

selling mine now 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/323319479270


----------



## tekkster

Coltblue said:


> selling mine now
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/323319479270



Why?  What was unsatisfactory about it?


----------



## Coltblue

tekkster said:


> Why?  What was unsatisfactory about it?



It is great, I just had some home stuff come up.


----------



## chungjun

Have been holding out and finally jumping on board on this one.

Dropped an order online and shipping is en route. Exciting times.


----------



## Tauko

New firmware.


----------



## NickedWicked

These guys keep impressing me with their expertly and extensive firmware support and I wouldn’t want to have it any other way!


----------



## tekkster

chungjun said:


> Have been holding out and finally jumping on board on this one.
> 
> Dropped an order online and shipping is en route. Exciting times.



You ordered and it was en route right away?  Jealous, lol.  Still waiting for mine, hasn’t even arrived at the reseller yet.


----------



## chungjun (Jun 27, 2018)

tekkster said:


> You ordered and it was en route right away? Jealous, lol. Still waiting for mine, hasn’t even arrived at the reseller yet.



Don't have to be. I'm dealing with international shipping. No immediate access to local dealer and bought from Thomann.de and the team there act fast to arrange to ship. Even so, shipping is expected to have to take 10 to 20 days. Oh well, time to download the manual and have a read while waiting for shipping.


----------



## tekkster

chungjun said:


> Don't have to be. I'm dealing with international shipping. No immediate access to local dealer and bought from Thomann.de and the team there act fast to arrange to ship. Even so, shipping is expected to have to take 10 to 20 days. Oh well, time to download the manual and have a read while waiting for shipping.



I just called zenproaudio, and it's not arriving at my home on Friday.  It's arriving at their facility on Friday, and shipping out "hopefully" same day.  Which means next week arrival if I'm lucky.
Some update is better than no update, but a bummer nevertheless.


----------



## oyster

Had the privilege of listening to the RME ADI DAC. Thanks to an extended loaner from a Forum member.

So this thing is much smaller than it appears in pictures. Same size as that as a set top box. Build is extremely light for a $1k product. The bundled manuals are heavier than the Unit.  To make it worse the buttons are not feather touch and the entire unit moves while playing with the software

Speaking of DSP features, It has tonnes of it. Experienced digital filters first time and they shift tonality tiny bit. Much less artificial than using a software eq. 

How does it sound:

Amp section - Warmish, easy, goes loud. Qualitywise its similar to the standard solid state portable chinese amps. But amp is just an added bonus so need not be critical about it.

DAC section:
1) Single ended fed by desktop USB - Thin tone and occasionally splashy treble, sub bass is present but doesnt have authority, some uneven emphasis on mid bass, searched for but dynamics and microdynamics are both absent leading to a boring sound that's very clean but devoid of life. USB isn't doing any favours to this dac. Paul Simon sounded like an 18yr old kid.

2) Moved to COAX fed by an ancient Digigram VX222v2 PCI sound card - Not as thin, resolves much more than the USB, bass gains some body, but lack of microdynamics is even more evident now. Mids have more of shout due to lack of any richness, treble is not peaky but still edgy and thin with somewhat synthetic timbre. Fair dynamics (vs USB) but even a mimby would outdo. This thing is just flat, source change did improve it but barely effective.

3) Single ended vs balanced - Balanced is much energetic but loses on nuances. It's loud all over , subtleties are lost that single ended regains somewhat.


This unit excels at being very feature rich but if it's primary purpose is that of a DAC, better can be had for the price. I honestly think most of the asking price is due to the DSP and other bundled features. When I first saw it , that .1 lbs power supply for the unit was already an indicator of the DACs performance.


----------



## lowvolume

oyster said:


> When I first saw it , that .1 lbs power supply for the unit was already an indicator of the DACs performance.



Prime example for a sighted and biased test. ---> trashcan.


----------



## Soundwave76

^ oh wow. Those who believe power supplies or USB cables influence sound, should stay away from studio grade gear like RME and stick with the stereophile world gear...


----------



## albertmuc

With the price the respect increases, for some audiophiles. RME is simply too fair priced.


----------



## trybeingarun

I can relate to pretty much all the points oyster brought up over a few months of use to varying degrees and I finally sold the unit.


----------



## oyster

trybeingarun said:


> I can relate to pretty much all the points oyster brought up over a few months of use to varying degrees and I finally sold the unit.


It can't sound bad,  it's made in Germany.


----------



## boxerlc

oyster said:


> It can't sound bad,  it's made in Germany.



Hi Oyster, could you list some better product around this price?


----------



## oyster

As a DAC alone Gumby (At a bit higher price though) does a much better job. Way better dynamics and agreeable tone/timbre. 
At a much lower price, get a Vintage PCM63 DAC and mod the hell out of it. Parts + unit cost won't exceed $400.


----------



## ZenErik (Jun 28, 2018)

Neither are all in one or have the features of the ADI-2 DAC. But if you don't want/need those features then perhaps.

A big reason to buy the ADI-2 DAC is because you want the features it offers at a very reasonable price. Personally, I admit that I don't think it sounds quite as good as my Onyx did as a DAC, but it's very close for $1500 less while having a lot more utility.


----------



## oyster

Yep, I don't think any other DAC can match the features of the RME. I would admit that I had fun playing with plethora of options on the RME. I usually dislike DSP and similar features, but RME does it professionally and doesn't go overboard with the implementation. The features make impact exactly as they should at the hardware level and no garbage software processing .


----------



## VRacer-111

I think it's unbeatable for the options and customization you get at its price point, but will agree from a sound quality perspective I do have other DAC unit I prefer for less depending on headphone used. My TH-X00PH does not like the ADI-2 compared to my Gustard X20U - bass comes across as more lacking, mids are less dynamic and rich, and highs more sterile sounding. The Campfire Audio Cascade I demoed worked better on the ADI-2 than the Gustard X20U - punchier, more dynamic and cleaner sounding. The STAX L300 Limited sounds good from the ADI-2, with extreme clarity and nice low end punch, but the Gustard X20U does seem to give them a more rich sound and better overall low end presentation. Overall I do like the RME ADI-2 DAC very much for what it can do with STAX, but my TH-X00PH is much better suited to the Gustard setup.


----------



## Soundwave76

oyster said:


> When I first saw it , that .1 lbs power supply for the unit was already an indicator of the DACs performance.



This 'issue' was just asked also in the RME Forum. The reply is worth reading... 

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27006


----------



## NickedWicked

oyster said:


> As a DAC alone Gumby (At a bit higher price though) does a much better job. Way better dynamics and agreeable tone/timbre.
> At a much lower price, get a Vintage PCM63 DAC and mod the hell out of it. Parts + unit cost won't exceed $400.


I hope you know for professional purposes the DAC is great, it goes head to head with Antelope, Crane, Lynx, Mytek and Benchmark converters which is nuts for the price, and multiple people on Gearslutz can confirm that.


----------



## tekkster

Huh, strange, the RME ADI-2 DAC arrived today, and it's hard to get the same sound I remember from the unit I borrowed.

Gotta admit, I do love the eq controls and the spectrum analyzer, and like how each of the three outputs have their own settings to customize, that's pretty nifty.

Overall, sounds a little "veiled" compared to the H2, but a pretty laid back and relaxing sound.  Through the ifi ican pro, the hd800 sounds great with classical orchestral and big band jazz music.  I mean, there's a little more blending of sounds than on the H2, but even still, playing around with eq, I can really bring up instruments focused on certain frequencies that often disappear.  So, while it might provide less detail, I can customize more with the detail I do get.  Which I really enjoy.

Barely had half an hour with each headphone, jumping between sara bareilles, lindsey stirling, vivaldi, wa mozart, ella fitzgerald, robben ford, dave brubeck, chris botti, 

A lot of little sounds you can hear with the Utopia on the H2 disappear.  and it sounds kinda muddy to me.  
Not super happy with the KSE1200 on it
Pretty good fit with the HD800 after passing through iCan Pro.
Nice with Cascade.  Helps soften the bass and bring up the mid and get to my desired ceiling for the treble without causing wincing pain.
With the nighthawk and nightowl, it's pretty darn phenomenal to me.  Yes, it is a little thin compared to how these headphones act on the Mojo or iCan Pro, but very middling, in a good way.  
On the T1, it lacks oomph at higher volumes (which isn't very loud for me anyway) but the surprise for me is how well the T1 sounds at low volume.  I like.
On the PM3, meh.  doesn't really do anything for me.
On the Meze 99c, I really really enjoy it.  I bring up the treble a bit, drop the bass a bit, and the 99c becomes a brighter headphone.  still a tad bit of blending of instruments, which always bugged me about the 99c, but much less so.

If I didn't have the mojo, h2, idsd bl, (and the ican pro amp), I'm pretty sure the rme would leave me wanting a little more for some headphones, and a lot more for the utopia and kse1200.  But, given what I already have, the rme is a really great addition for certain types of music.  A little more laid back, never overwhelming or sharp, always relaxed and enjoyable.

For me, the ideal pairing with this, especially at lower volume listening, is the T1.


----------



## technobear

tekkster said:


> Huh, strange, the RME ADI-2 DAC arrived today, and it's hard to get the same sound I remember from the unit I borrowed.
> .


Come back to us on that after 50 hours, or 100 hours, or even 200 hours (my personal minimum break-in time).


----------



## tekkster

technobear said:


> Come back to us on that after 50 hours, or 100 hours, or even 200 hours (my personal minimum break-in time).



I did have another unit for about two weeks, that already had a lot of time on it by its owner, and listened for well over 100 hours on it (I work from home).
The unit that arrived today is mine.  The only real difference is now I can hook it up to the iCan Pro which I didn't own at the time I borrowed the previous unit.
Thought I'd mentioned that.


----------



## Soundwave76

technobear said:


> Come back to us on that after 50 hours, or 100 hours, or even 200 hours (my personal minimum break-in time).



Pro tip: Studio professionals using RME gear use 0 hours for break-in time. They understand that break-in does not happen on the gear, but always on the listeners mind, because the humain brain adapts.


----------



## bidn (Jul 4, 2018)

tekkster said:


> Huh, strange, the RME ADI-2 DAC arrived today, and it's hard to get the same sound I remember from the unit I borrowed.
> 
> Gotta admit, I do love the eq controls and the spectrum analyzer, and like how each of the three outputs have their own settings to customize, that's pretty nifty.
> 
> ...




Hi tekkster,

congratulations with your RME!

I want to mention two things re. your impressions.

1.
Have you tried out different filters?
slow filter = smoother
sharp = more detail...

2.
 I find that the ICAN Pro degrades a lot the level of details,  clarity (SNR), attacks and dynamics of my RME ADI-2 PRO.
For me it is much better to use directly and only the RME amp ( through which the output of the DAC goes anyway even for the line out standard voltage).
So I advise you to try bypassing the iFi.

Hoping you will enjoy your RME!

Edit: 
 I mean especially with headphones producing a very clean , detailed and dynamic sound like Focal 's, especially the Utopia, but also the Clear, Elear, or AKG's K812 or modded K872.


----------



## tekkster

Soundwave76 said:


> Pro tip: Studio professionals using RME gear use 0 hours for break-in time. They understand that break-in does not happen on the gear, but always on the listeners mind, because the humain brain adapts.



A likely reason the RME I received doesn't sound like the loaner.  I'd gotten used to the H2 and Mojo for too long.


----------



## Soundwave76

^ Exactly!


----------



## tekkster

bidn said:


> Hi tekkster,
> 
> congratulations with your RME!
> 
> ...



Thanks!  I am enjoying the RME immensely.  

Love the filters.  And the sharp filter does help, but it doesn't quite get the same springy, staccato, fast effect on snare drums, guitar plucks, and short cymbal sounds.
Love the "loudness" feature, it works magic on the T1 connected directly to the RME.  Never even thought about it until I was testing it out on the borrowed unit.
Love the EQ to no end.  I think there are enough pre-sets to cover all my fav headphones.
Not so big on the bass boost and treble boost under line-out, phones, iem.  The bass boost does work well and garners that rumbly sensation, but not really a bass fan.  And while the treble boost works well, my favorite headphones are a little treble "responsive" to begin with.

As you suggest, I've also realized that connecting directly to the RME is much better for a lot of headphoens

Yeah, the iCan Pro does remove a lot of detail too.  But I genuinely do love it when using the HD800s because it makes big band stuff (classical, jazz) sound much more expansive than any other setup I have.  I still prefer the HD800s on the iCan Pro.
The T1, I can go back and forth between the RME and the RME/iCan Pro.  
The Utopia and KSE1200, I'll give it more time, but honestly, feeling pretty confident that, for me anyway, they're not a good fit on the RME and need to stay on the H2 and Mojo.

For most of the other headphones, connecting directly to the RME seems, as you say, the way to go for me too.  

I've been spending the last hour with the cascade on the rme.  really impressive.


----------



## chungjun

^ that came in a few days back. As eager and excited as I am, couldn’t get alone time with it till today



 

^ almost a palm - pleasant size and didn’t need much real estate. I have it between my monitor stand and it fits nicely.


----------



## chungjun

Have been reading up the manual and digesting the information provided in it.

One thing that caught my curiosity is the "_De-Emphasis_" option.

Default setting is "Auto". And from what I read, where the _"ADI-2 DAC activates the DAC's de-emphasis automatically when the current source is *AES or SPDIF*"_. (from the User Manual para. 31.2)





Not clear how it will be implemented when USB is the source (i.e. would it have a way to detect the if source is recorded with "Emphasis" or not?). As I feed my ADI-2 DAC with USB, I set it to "On" and that seems to tone down the high / treble.

Have you guys tinker around this? What do you set?

My chain is : PC(USB) > RME ADI-2 > Headphone / IEMs


----------



## tekkster

I'm really surprised at my preference for the RME ADI-2 DAC.  Of all the headphones I have, surprisingly, the Cascade is my favorite and the T1 is my second favorite with this DAC/AMP.  Others tested:  Utopia, HD800, M50x, M70x, PM-3, Nighthawk, Nightowl, TR80/250, KSE1200, Meze 99c.  The Cascade does need a slight drop in bass in EQ, but once that's done, it's pretty ideal.


----------



## tekkster (Jul 13, 2018)

Another interesting, and perhaps not so important discovery.

The RME ADI-2 DAC is well shielded from RF.
Maybe it's obvious to everyone else, but I've gotten used to the really bad susceptibility of the iFi iCan Pro when my cell phone is within 6 inches of it.  My desk is pretty cramped, so my phone accidentally ends up near the iCan Pro fairly often.  Not a big deal, I just move the phone at least a foot away and the interference goes away.  But I'd gotten so used to it that figured it was just a thing that happens with a lot of these compact desktop devices. 
Really happy that the ADI-2 DAC doesn't suffer from this.  To really test it, I put my phone on top of the DAC, next to it, in front of it, behind it.  No interference or static of any kind.

A small thing.  But very happy.


----------



## Flater

tekkster said:


> Huh, strange, the RME ADI-2 DAC arrived today, and it's hard to get the same sound I remember from the unit I borrowed.
> 
> Gotta admit, I do love the eq controls and the spectrum analyzer, and like how each of the three outputs have their own settings to customize, that's pretty nifty.
> 
> ...


I have the ADI-2 DAC as well, nice little unit. I also like the pairing with the Nighthawk, great synergy there IMO. Do you use any EQ on ADI-2 with the Nighthawk? 

Can you say a bit more about the pairing with KSE1200? Have you tried different digital filters? Is H2 or Mojo a better match for KSE1200 to your ears?


----------



## Flater

chungjun said:


> Have been reading up the manual and digesting the information provided in it.
> 
> One thing that caught my curiosity is the "_De-Emphasis_" option.
> 
> ...


Hi Chungjun, 

I hope you enjoy your new ADI-2 DAC. Can you comment on the pairing with the Focal Clear in comparison to V281? In other words, does putting V281 to the chain (after ADI-2 as dac only) improve the sound quality of the Clear in your opinion?


----------



## tekkster (Jul 15, 2018)

Flater said:


> I have the ADI-2 DAC as well, nice little unit. I also like the pairing with the Nighthawk, great synergy there IMO. Do you use any EQ on ADI-2 with the Nighthawk?
> 
> Can you say a bit more about the pairing with KSE1200? Have you tried different digital filters? Is H2 or Mojo a better match for KSE1200 to your ears?




I use EQ on the RME ADI-2 a ton.  Love it.  Have also enjoyed going into I/O settings and playing around with the bass and treble, crossfeed, da filter, de-emphasis, polarity.

For "Phones" I've saved a few settings to work with different headphones.

---

As far as the KSE1200 pairing is concerned, I've yet to come across a DAC/AMP pairing I don't like for those IEMs.  Whatever the DAC/AMP can produce, the KSE1200 delivers all of it, it seems like.  Pretty unreal.

There is a tiny tiny little issue for me in pairing the KSe1200 with the ADI-2, and that's that there are some quick snare drum rim hits, the distinctive staccato sound, that don't always sound like when a dummer hits the rim of a snare drum.  Sometimes it sounds like a staticky tick.  I wanted to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks, so I would pair the 1200 with the H2, and the tick would turn into a snare drum rim hit again.  So the ADI-2, as phenomenal as it is, does seem to lose a bit of detail.  

Some subtle sounds become more subtle, and in the case of large orchestral pieces, some very very subtle second violins or third violins, sometimes second flutes and third flutes, will become really hard to hear.  It happens on very very few pieces.  Some examples include: 
 - JSB's Concerto for 3 violines in D Major. VWV 1064 - III Allegro, 
 - WAM's Symphony 25 G Minor:  Allegro con brio, 
 - Vivaldi's Concerto Concerto in E minor RV134, 1. Allegro moderato, 
and one more particularly good example is 
 - beethoven's symphony no.6 in F major Pastoral.  

The last one is especially interesting to me because the flute plays such a tiny tiny role in the piece, and yet, it has this really cool, almost jazz like riff early in the piece.  I never knew it was there until I heard it on the Hugo 2 with the Utopias.  I can hear it with the KSE on the H2 as well.  Now that I know it's there, I look for it whenever I this piece comes up on my playlist.  On the ADI-2, you can hear it, but only if you're looking for it, because it blends with the cello as the violins overwhelm the early part of this piece.  Still, it's impressive that the ADI-2 can produce it, even if it's incredibly subtle.

The ADI-2 is still way better at detail retrieval and accuracy relative to the Schiit Jot, or the portable DAC/AMPs I have.  Like the R3, N5II (Where the flute riff I mentioned completely disappears), and obviously, it goes without saying that it's more detail than smartphones.  To my ears, it's relatively close in detail retrieval to the R6.

Despite the minor minor loss in detail, the ADI-2 is currently my main desktop headphone amp.  I connect direct to it with many headphones, and run it through the iFi iCan Pro for the HD800 and T1 at the moment.

Also, a lot of comments I've read in the past is that the ADI-2 is rather analytical and dry, without getting to some good toe-tapping fun.  I haven't noticed that.  While it's a little less thumpy/energetic, it's plenty fun for me.

----

Right at the moment (my mind changes a lot so my opinion may be different tomorrow), my favorite desktop setup is ADI-2-iCan Pro-HD800, but then, I've been on a vivaldi/wam/jsb/brahms kick for the past few days or so.  Last week I was on a thelonius monk/tommy flanagan/coltrane/brubeck kick and it was Utopias all the way, and the week prior I was all sara bareilles, enjoying the softer vaguely "analogue record to old 80's wooden speakers" feel I get from the Nighthawks.

---

Probably not a very valuable response to your question.


----------



## Flater

tekkster said:


> I use EQ on the RME ADI-2 a ton.  Love it.  Have also enjoyed going into I/O settings and playing around with the bass and treble, crossfeed, da filter, de-emphasis, polarity.
> 
> For "Phones" I've saved a few settings to work with different headphones.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your elaborate and valuable answer, much appreciated 

It seems the ADI-2 gets along with quite a few headphones, which is nice. I now use it as my main desktop unit too. IEM output is great as well, super low noise floor. The notorious Andromedas do not hiss at all (and sound good out of the Adi-2). I also enjoy the EQ, digital filters and crossfeed options very much, it appears the German engineers have done a good job here. If all recordings and headphones were perfect, there would be no need for these type of features. But they are not obviously, and some tweaking with dsp really helps to make some older recordings (with much stereo separation) or poorly mastered stuff digestible imo. E.g. Beatles Abbey Road with crossfeed step 2 (Jan Meier emulation) sounds very natural to my ears. I am even inclined to use the crossfeed (step 1, very subtle) as a default.  

I briefly tested whether there is any difference between optical and usb, could’t hear a difference. USB from my old laptop works flawlessly, this RME unit does not seem sensitive to jitter, RF – like you noted as well.

I am surprised that the ADI-2 DAC is not discussed much here on Head-Fi. It seems very competitive for the price. And these RME guys are very responsive to questions/problems; nice forum as well on their website. I guess RME does not do much marketing as a pro brand.

As an aside: do you use KSE1200 typically on the go or also on your main rig? Can it keep up with the big boys like Utopia, HD800?


----------



## tekkster

Flater said:


> Thanks for your elaborate and valuable answer, much appreciated
> 
> It seems the ADI-2 gets along with quite a few headphones, which is nice. I now use it as my main desktop unit too. IEM output is great as well, super low noise floor. The notorious Andromedas do not hiss at all (and sound good out of the Adi-2). I also enjoy the EQ, digital filters and crossfeed options very much, it appears the German engineers have done a good job here. If all recordings and headphones were perfect, there would be no need for these type of features. But they are not obviously, and some tweaking with dsp really helps to make some older recordings (with much stereo separation) or poorly mastered stuff digestible imo. E.g. Beatles Abbey Road with crossfeed step 2 (Jan Meier emulation) sounds very natural to my ears. I am even inclined to use the crossfeed (step 1, very subtle) as a default.
> 
> ...



Kse1200 is plenty good enough to use at home and holds its own against the utopias and hd800.  I like the hd800’s for the sheer sense of expansiveness, which can surprise me. Sometimes hat expansiveness is hard to tell at first, but then i’ll be listening for a while and, wham, i hear a section that sounds exactly where i imagine it would when at a concert.  The T1’s do the same thing once in a while.  The Utopias have this energy and what sounds to my ears as a “perfect” vibration and “speed” that is always there when listening to jazz trios or quartets.  

The kse1200 is more akin to the hd800 in that it doesn’t do anything for me in the beginning, and just sounds like a good pair of iems, but after listening for a while, it will suddenly surprise me as i get a sudden sense of sound separation perfection and accuracy.  It sounds like whatever is being delivered, is delivered exactly up to the limit of the dac/amp.  Hard to describe the sensation.

For me, at least, the kse1200 is great at home or on the road.  

—-

I agree the adi-2 dac is an incredible value for dollar and the features are impressive by a wide margin.  Really would have thought it would be discussed on head-fi more as well.


----------



## Flater

tekkster said:


> Kse1200 is plenty good enough to use at home and holds its own against the utopias and hd800.  I like the hd800’s for the sheer sense of expansiveness, which can surprise me. Sometimes hat expansiveness is hard to tell at first, but then i’ll be listening for a while and, wham, i hear a section that sounds exactly where i imagine it would when at a concert.  The T1’s do the same thing once in a while.  The Utopias have this energy and what sounds to my ears as a “perfect” vibration and “speed” that is always there when listening to jazz trios or quartets.
> 
> The kse1200 is more akin to the hd800 in that it doesn’t do anything for me in the beginning, and just sounds like a good pair of iems, but after listening for a while, it will suddenly surprise me as i get a sudden sense of sound separation perfection and accuracy.  It sounds like whatever is being delivered, is delivered exactly up to the limit of the dac/amp.  Hard to describe the sensation.
> 
> ...


Nice to hear that KSE1200 holds its own against your open over ear headphones. Definitely have to audition them. They may be a nice upgrade of my Andromeda’s. I like (need) iems for very late night listening in bed when the wife sleeps.


----------



## tekkster

Flater said:


> Nice to hear that KSE1200 holds its own against your open over ear headphones. Definitely have to audition them. They may be a nice upgrade of my Andromeda’s. I like (need) iems for very late night listening in bed when the wife sleeps.



I never heard the andromedas.  The only other thing i would say about the kse1200 is that i needed to listen for a while before it hit me just how good it was.  It didn’t strike me at first.  It’s not as attention grabbing from the beginning as, say, the utopias.  But when it hit me, a few days into listening to them, it was....”revelation” is too strong a word.  More “surprisingly effortless and perfect” to my ears.


----------



## Flater

tekkster said:


> I never heard the andromedas.  The only other thing i would say about the kse1200 is that i needed to listen for a while before it hit me just how good it was.  It didn’t strike me at first.  It’s not as attention grabbing from the beginning as, say, the utopias.  But when it hit me, a few days into listening to them, it was....”revelation” is too strong a word.  More “surprisingly effortless and perfect” to my ears.


Are they consistent across music genres in your view?


----------



## tekkster

Flater said:


> Are they consistent across music genres in your view?



Very much so.


----------



## VRacer-111

My TH-X00 PH doesn't pair well with the ADI-2 DAC, but most everything else has so far. Just put the HD58X on and it pairs well...though would probably be a little better with the ADI-2 outputting to my modded Gustard H10 amp.







I got the RME ADI-2 DAC mainly for my STAX rig which it works EXTREMELY well for, though a little less full and warm sounding than with the Gustard X20U previously used (which is now back in the dynamic rig, because it's PERFECT pairing for my modded TH-X00PH.) Detail is simply great though and overall sound very much fits the character of the STAX L300 Ltd 80th. I'll take the enhanced sense of detail and tighter punch over slightly fuller sound for those STAX.


----------



## Flater

I have been playing around with the digital filters lately. Keep coming back to the default SD Sharp for critical listening, sometimes slow when I feel a bit 'slow' too. Have you guys settled on any of the filters?  Do you hear much difference between them?


----------



## chungjun

Flater said:


> I hope you enjoy your new ADI-2 DAC. Can you comment on the pairing with the Focal Clear in comparison to V281? In other words, does putting V281 to the chain (after ADI-2 as dac only) improve the sound quality of the Clear in your opinion?



Couldn't get much time to enjoy my new ADI-2 DAC enough. Has been rather caught up with other much less important stuff lately (like work / real life) - I need to get my priorities right! 

When I do sit down for a listen, I have been spending most of my time with ADI-2 > V281 > HD800S setup.

I did a quick listen with Focal Clear tonight hopefully to share a few cents worth and shed some light or initial impression. Relatively, Focal Clear isn't a hard to drive headphone. ADI-2 (Phones) without "Hi-Power" (Auto-Ref Level ON) provides more than sufficient listening volume for me (at around -30 dBr). Granted, I usually listen late at night and in a quiet study room environment.

Sonically, switching between V281 (6.3mm) and ADI-2, listening to a few pop-song tracks, suggests to me that my ears prefer / enjoy the setup with V281 amp in the chain. Hard for me to describe and I must say this is all rather preliminary and it could possibly be that I have had my V281 for some time now and listening mostly to it prior to acquiring the ADI-2 as a DAC - thus my mind / ears may have grown familiar / mental burned-in or developed a preference for V281.

That said, brief critical listening for any 'difference' (i.e. setting aside notion of 'better SQ or otherwise') between the two - I don't think there is a wide margin nor are we talking about night vs day experience and I would conclude ADI-2 stand tall on its own to pair with the Clear.


----------



## Flater

chungjun said:


> Couldn't get much time to enjoy my new ADI-2 DAC enough. Has been rather caught up with other much less important stuff lately (like work / real life) - I need to get my priorities right!
> 
> When I do sit down for a listen, I have been spending most of my time with ADI-2 > V281 > HD800S setup.
> 
> ...


Thanks for these first impressions, let us know if the picture changes after longer listening. Hope you can get those priorities right


----------



## Coltblue

I haven't gone through the filters yet. What are the best ones?


----------



## Flater

Coltblue said:


> I haven't gone through the filters yet. What are the best ones?


I don't think there is a best one, it depends on preference. SD sharp is a bit brighter but also more detailed. Slow is smoother, NOS darker. I mainly listen to SD sharp. These differences are rather subtle anyway, you won't get shocked. But it is nice to experiment.

Crossfeed is another story. That really makes a difference. Sometimes good, sometimes not so good. It really depends on the recording. Even when crossfeed turns out beneficial to my ears, my first impression is often like meh, less detail, narrower soundstage. But when my ears adjust, crossfeed can make it sound more natural, cohesive, less fatiguing. I usually go for step 1 (a touch) or 2 (Meier). Step 3 and beyond is often too much for me, it feels like I am listing in a tunnel. Crossfeed is also headphone dependent imo. The Nighthawk needs a bit more of it than my Clear, at least that's my impression so far.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

I find the desirability of using the crossfeed to be totally source dependent. Newer recordings almost never need it but live shows and older stereo recordings can greatly benefit from it, especially jazz, r&b and some rock albums. I get fatigued listening to old mixes where the instruments are totally in one channel or the other—it feels unnatural having my brain do the work of blending the sounds. The crossfeed does that work subtly but convincingly. That said, setting the Adi-2 dac’s crossfeed past “2” results in diminishing returns where the music starts to lose clarity and the soundstage gets compressed, so a little goes a long way.

Two amps I’ve had that have better crossfeed implementations than the Adi-2 are the ifi ICan Pro & the SPL Phonitor 2. The latter especially has tremendous flexibility and customization options. Maybe it’s that those amps crossfeed functions are controlled in the analog rather than digital realm that makes them sound better to my ears. Still, the Adi-2 is good if not great at it.

The filters also depend on the source and your headphones. I usually set it to SD Sharp or Slow. They run on a continuum from more incisive and revealing to smoother and more forgiving of recordings. Many times I will pair older more analog recordings with the SD Sharp filter to draw out more detail, while newer more digital/electronic productions can have any sense of digital glare or sheen tamed a bit by the Slow or Sharp settings. Of course headphones are a big factor too! Ok, that is all.


----------



## ZenErik

I use NOS, but Slow is also nice. Maybe it sounds odd, but I prefer the ADI-2 DAC crossfeed over the Pro iCan options. I feel like they're all actually usable. On the Pro iCan I felt like only the first option was usable to me. The other options just seemed to make everything sound noticeably brighter. In addition, when things are hard panned like that on old jazz recordings I think setting the ADI-2 DAC to mono is a better option than crossfeed.


----------



## Coltblue

Ok thanks, I'll have to try them out.


----------



## NickedWicked

Anyone compared this to the (upgraded) Burson Play or similair priced amp/dac units? Asking for a friend.


----------



## VRacer-111

I use the Sharp filter and crossfeed at 2 (unless listening to the speakers [The NAD C275BEE has two sets of stereo speaker outputs  - use one for the STAX transformer and other for my mains], crossfeed off then)


----------



## Flater

Interesting observations about crossfeed. I am wondering whether - just theoretically - is it better to implement crossfeed in the digital domain (like ADI-2 DAC) or in the analogue (like SPL Phonitor 2)? Any thoughts on this?


----------



## Phoniac

It seems to me that users of the ADI-2 Pro and DAC typically overlook the Width setting, which provides an adjustable stereo to mono effect to narrow the stereo base. If you are not satisfied with the current Crossfeed presets you should try this one too, and especially a combination of both.


----------



## ZenErik

Phoniac said:


> It seems to me that users of the ADI-2 Pro and DAC typically overlook the Width setting, which provides an adjustable stereo to mono effect to narrow the stereo base. If you are not satisfied with the current Crossfeed presets you should try this one too, and especially a combination of both.


You're right. I have overlooked it. From the way you describe it it seems better than just switching to mono. Will have to give it a try later.


----------



## albertmuc

Phoniac said:


> It seems to me that users of the ADI-2 Pro and DAC typically overlook the Width setting, which provides an adjustable stereo to mono effect to narrow the stereo base. If you are not satisfied with the current Crossfeed presets you should try this one too, and especially a combination of both.





ZenErik said:


> You're right. I have overlooked it. From the way you describe it it seems better than just switching to mono. Will have to give it a try later.



My default setting, which is adjusted according to the music material, is: Crossfeed 1; Width 0,95


----------



## Tauko (Jul 19, 2018)

New USB revision, 17 --> 20. No changelog. I already updated. Works fine.


----------



## kvn864

Tauko said:


> New USB revision, 17 --> 20. No changelog. I already updated. Works fine.


this is what changed
> New option 'Toggle Screen' in the Remap key section. Assigning this function to one of the programmable 
> keys of the remote will toggle between the three top screens Analyzer, Dark Volume and State Overview.


----------



## tekkster

The more I use the RME ADI-2 features, tweaking things here and there, the more I love it.

And I love the analyzer, often staring at it while listening to certain pieces to get a better sense of frequencies of particular voices and instruments.  So wonderful to get that information right at the egress point (which I prefer more than the old way, which was to use analyzers on the iMac before sending to the DAC/AMP).

Of course, the ultra-quiet 3.5mm jack and the extra power 6.3mm jack is amazing too.

My only two very subtle, very minor thoughts right now are:
 - There are very subtle sounds on just a few rare compositions (orchestral classical) that I can hear on the H2 that I have trouble hearing on the ADI-2.  
 - There is a subtle "slowness" to some instruments that are "snappier" on the H2.

The issues are so very minor, almost not worth mentioning (though noteworthy to me), that they don't make me switch to the H2, I keep using the ADI-2. 

----

As others have mentioned, I'm continuously confused as to why the ADI-2 doesn't get more attention on these audiophile forums.


----------



## chungjun

Anyone played with EQ yet? Wondering if you are willing to share your EQ settings, particularly for HD800S.


----------



## tekkster

Ahhh bummer.  Don't have the 800s.  only the older 800


----------



## tekkster

My preferred settings for 
 - Focal Utopia headphones only (One of two custom presets)
 - For jazz and classical only
 - For electronica, or 80's rock, house, rap, R&B, it's basically flipped 
   (With utopia for this type of music, I prefer a little help with bass sometimes, and a dip for treble above 5K)

How can you not love this fine-tuned control


----------



## FangJoker

I just discovered this unit and believe it will be my next purchase.


----------



## JamesCanada

Hey, just purchased this unit but I have not received it yet.
Would you guys recommend an amp or is integrated enough? If so, any suggestions?
I have the following HP:
HD800S
E-MU Teak
HD6xx 
Oppo PM-3

Thanks


----------



## Leogaluc666

I've got the combo adi-2 dac => h800, a dedicated amp made a big difference, adi2 amp lacks punch and low end


----------



## Phoniac (Jul 27, 2018)

The ADI-2's Extreme Power stage don't lack anything. Comments like this make me think that you did not find the High Power setting in the menu of output 3/4, or dialed down Bass on 3/4 without noticing it. The HD800 is a high impedance phone and technically very easy to drive. You don't need much power but high voltage, and the ADI has plenty of that (10V unbalanced, 20V balanced).


----------



## Leogaluc666

I am well aware of the high voltage mode as well as the treble and bass switch, I recently bought a mjolnir 1 from schiit, and I did a direct comparaison I am just telling you what I hear, I am not denigrating your precious adi 2 don't worry. Someone asked a question and I gave him my truth.


----------



## ZenErik

The original HD800 also lacks punch and with the massive 6k peak will seem to lack low end to plenty of people. 

Personally I find the integrated amp just as good as other solid state amps I've tried. That includes the Pro iCan, IHA-6, and Jot for recent ones. That said, it's up to James whether he finds the integrated amp sufficient or not. A nice tube amp can certainly provide a different flavor that may or may not be more pleasing.


----------



## FangJoker

Leogaluc666 said:


> I've got the combo adi-2 dac => h800, a dedicated amp made a big difference, adi2 amp lacks punch and low end


Is it ok for iems?


----------



## VRacer-111 (Jul 27, 2018)

Leogaluc666 said:


> I've got the combo adi-2 dac => h800, a dedicated amp made a big difference, adi2 amp lacks punch and low end



Not with Campfire Audio Cascades... rediculous low end and punch, much better than the Cascades from a Gustard X20U DAC / modded H10 amp combo. Yes for my modded TH-X00PH though - the low end and punch is noticeably better with the Gustard setup.

I will say adding an external amp to the RME ADI-2 DAC is an improvement though.


----------



## Leogaluc666

Exactly I guess it's all about synergy between equipments.
One big thing that was missing as well with the adi2 dac on my HD800 was the rumble that I get with the mjolnir and make it so good to listen to. 

Now for iem I could not tell I didn't try but I guess amp pairing is less critical with iem than with headphones.


----------



## ZenErik

The ADI-2 DAC works great with my Shure SE535. No complaints. I don't find it lacking with any of my headphones. I would say that my ADX5000 would probably pair better for a lot of people with a nice tube amp as the treble can be a bit sharp on that particular headphone. It's in the same boat as the HD800 in that regard except that the ADX5000 is by no means bass light.


----------



## Flater

vegasf1 said:


> Is it ok for iems?


It works very well with CA Andromeda that I sometimes use for late night listening in bed. This iem is very sensitive, but no hissing on the Adi-2 DAC.


----------



## Coltblue

Power is great on dt 1990 pro 250 ohm and dt 770 pro 250 ohm.


----------



## JamesCanada

Thanks for the response! I appreciate it.
I was wondering if anyone is streaming straight from an Ipad to the RME?
I currently use my Laptop and I would like to use my IPad instead. I just don't know how to plug a lightning to USB-A...

Any suggestions?

James


----------



## ZenErik

JamesCanada said:


> Thanks for the response! I appreciate it.
> I was wondering if anyone is streaming straight from an Ipad to the RME?
> I currently use my Laptop and I would like to use my IPad instead. I just don't know how to plug a lightning to USB-A...
> 
> ...


https://www.apple.com/shop/product/...=aos-us-kwgo-pla-btb--slid--product-MK0W2AM/A

I believe this is what is typically used for connecting iOS devices to DACs. I have not tried it myself.


----------



## Coltblue

Apple MD821AM/A Lightning to USB Camera Adapter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014VGHG0U/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_4p9wBbCCB30C4

Use one of these


----------



## ZenErik

Coltblue said:


> Apple MD821AM/A Lightning to USB Camera Adapter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014VGHG0U/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_4p9wBbCCB30C4
> 
> Use one of these


Probably better to get the one I linked so they can still charge the device while listening.

Amazon link if the Apple link wasn't enough: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-MK0W2AM-Lightning-Camera-Adapter/dp/B01F7KJDIM


----------



## Coltblue

ZenErik said:


> Probably better to get the one I linked so they can still charge the device while listening.
> 
> Amazon link if the Apple link wasn't enough: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-MK0W2AM-Lightning-Camera-Adapter/dp/B01F7KJDIM



Yes those work too


----------



## JamesCanada

Anyone run a decent tube amp hooked up to this  little marvel?
I was looking into Woo Audio, seems like a good system.
Anyone try it for the synergy with the ADI?


----------



## tekkster

JamesCanada said:


> Anyone run a decent tube amp hooked up to this  little marvel?
> I was looking into Woo Audio, seems like a good system.
> Anyone try it for the synergy with the ADI?



I'd love to read about impressions on an ADI-2 -> Woo Audio setup.

I use the ADI-2 to an iFi iCan Pro to a pair of HD800, and enjoy it for classical orchestral music, but for all other headphones, I connect directly to the ADI-2.


----------



## normanl

hola said:


> Quick question for ADI-2DAC's owners:
> 
> Did your unit arrive in plastic wrap? Mine is, but the plastic bag containing the cable is ripped open, with the cable taken out. Also, the DAC is not in its default setting, suggesting someone played with it and put it back in the box. Add to the fact that the seller have four negative feedback over the past 12 months of selling used unit as new, I suspect that they sold me an open-box unit, but then wrap it in plastic and sold it as new.
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic question but I would appreciate feedback! Thanks!


Which seller did you order from? so that I'll avoid this seller. Thanks.


----------



## tekkster

I'm curious too.  Seems like a seller I should avoid.

I'm actually okay with sellers opening packaging if they let me know that ahead of time and, of course, if they honor warranties.


----------



## normanl

Coltblue said:


> picked one up on this site earlier today. with 2 day shipping to the us. https://sxpro.co.uk/rme-adi2-dac


I,m in the US too. May I ask how much they charged you totally including shipping? Are you also satisfied with your purchase from this seller?


----------



## Coltblue (Jul 31, 2018)

normanl said:


> I,m in the US too. May I ask how much they charged you totally including shipping? Are you also satisfied with your purchase from this seller?



$930 with overnight shipping from Great Britain included. Ordered in the morning and it was on my doorstep the next morning. Just remember that it will come with the euro style power plug. I got an American plug from Bestbuy that morning for $9.


----------



## LuckyNat

Does anyone have observations / opinions on the "very special IEM output" (RME's words)?  Especially in comparison to the Pro's balanced output possibilities. 

I'm considering getting one but part of the draw for me is the recording side of the Pro... am I going to feel I'm missing something when listening with iems (which is probably what I'd use it for the most). Flares Gold / Flares Pro are my iems..


----------



## tekkster

LuckyNat said:


> Does anyone have observations / opinions on the "very special IEM output" (RME's words)?  Especially in comparison to the Pro's balanced output possibilities.
> 
> I'm considering getting one but part of the draw for me is the recording side of the Pro... am I going to feel I'm missing something when listening with iems (which is probably what I'd use it for the most). Flares Gold / Flares Pro are my iems..



As far as I know, it's specialty is being a super quiet jack.  The noise floor is so low that highly sensitive IEMs can get pretty loud without having a noise floor distracting the listener.  The only sensitive IEMs I have are the KSE1200's, which run through an amp, so I'm not sure I could hear a noise floor.  But, that's what I seem to recall reading about.


----------



## FangJoker

Any recommendations on what seller to buy this from? I'm in the USA.


----------



## tekkster

I bought from Zenproaudio, no issues, good customer service.  They mistakenly sent me one with a European style plug, and rush shipped the US.  They said the distributor sent them the wrong version, but they also shipped out the US cable within a week.  

But I think they're all pretty good.  B&H has great return policies, and I've purchased gear from Sweetwater before and had no issues.  GuitarCenter and Reverb both seem to have a good rep, but I've never purchased from those places.


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## romchique

I also bought mine from Zenproaudio without any issue. They shipped the next day after purchase and the unit I got was brand new in a sealed box.


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## VRacer-111

I ordered mine from Sweetwater, mainly for the 3 payment installment option.


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## ZenErik

I wish I could hear changes between the AK4490 filters other than the roll off differences between Sharp/SD Sharp, Slow/SD Slow, and 'NOS'. Given the nature of my ADX5000 I favor 'NOS' to best tame the treble excitement of the headphone a bit. The same will likely apply to the HD800S that I will be getting (again) sooner than later. 

The delay on the Sharp filter might be slightly noticeable in rhythm games, but I have not tried to compare the latency between filters yet. According to the manual the latency differences are quite minimal.


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## LuckyNat

I read 'sharp' to be another name for the type of brickwall filter the majority of CD players and digital products had been using for decades. Is that right or my wrong interpretation? 

in which case shouldn't be too bad.


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## kino lau

Coltblue said:


> I haven't gone through the filters yet. What are the best ones?


My DAC showed up yesterday and I began playing with the different options without really reading the manual. But it was in front of me so that counts for something...lol. I popped in here to do a search for initial settings that other members found themselves using. I mainly want to get dialed in for my Clears right now. After I get a feel for what does what, I'll experiment with my IEM's. I did look up one specific thing in the manual after pushing and turning all the different knobs and buttons. I found how to do a factory reset...and will start again in the morning. OH...and I figured out that the end of the power cord that plugs into the DAC, *wasn't poorly designed* so that it easily falls out of the jack. I would NEVER have even thought to look that up here or in the manual...lol.


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## Coltblue

Yes the twist lock haha


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## sodesuka (Aug 11, 2018)

nvm


----------



## JamesCanada

I would like to thank each and every one of you for taking the time to post your comments, questions and reviews here.
For the 1st time in a long time, Yesterday was one of my favorite nights to sit back, relax and enjoy the music.
I got my unit yesterday Am, and by 5h00pm I was itching to put the kids to sleep (4 and 1) and just zone out with my E-mu Teaks.
Well, fortunately for me I am getting married next week (!!!) and I still had a few things to finalize with the little lady.
Aroud 9h30 we were done.
For the last 3 months I was eyebaling this unit. And Others, but particularly this one.
I read so many great things about it, learned a lot about EQ and what not and I felt like yesterday was the day I felt the same appreciation for this unit, many of you do.
So, thanks, you helped me make a decision to get a great unit.
The fun starts now because I only used it straight out the box.
I can’t wait to dig deeper and test this unit with the 800s’s, iem’s and 6XX’s. Nice times to come!
Good listening to everyone!


----------



## Konev (Aug 11, 2018)

Hello everyone!
I'm using DAC *MHDT Havana* (PCM56P-K) with original *Lehmann Audio Black Cube Linear*. My headphone is *Audio-Technica ATH-W5000*. I have very big collection of lossless files 16/44,1 Due a limitation of my Havana to 16 bit my collection of HD files is smaller than I would like to have. So I think to change my DAC Havana to RME ADI-2 DAC...

1/ Does anyone had experience to compare Havana vs ADI-2 DAC on CD sound?

2/ Will ADI-2 DAC work well with Audio-Technica ATH-W5000? Or Lehmann Audio Linear is more powerful and better for my headphone?

Thank you in advance!


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## kino lau

This should hold me for a while...


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## kino lau

So I need to spend some time with this DAC. But I did a side by side comparison between the RME and my ifi micro iDSD BL using my QP1R as the source and my Clear's for HP's. I used the optical input for both DAC's. I spent some time listening to the RME, which I had been thinking didn't share the clarity and crispness of cymbals and hi-hat that I had been used to from the BL. When I swapped to the ifi BL everything sounded more defined. The soundstage seemed to open up (Listening to Nutshell from Alice in Chains Unplugged), the kick drum was punchier and the hi-hat was more distinct. I swapped back to the 2 DAC and everything sounded more laid back. The kick wasn't as punchy (it was more accurate?) the soundstage sounded "different" but maintained an openness similar to the BL, and the cymbals and hi-hat were less distinct. 
I went back and forth a few times and my impressions were always the same. Volume matching played no part in the comparison because I varied the volume of the RME up and down while listening and the dynamics of the two DAC's were extremely different from one another. Maybe I'm just used to a colored SQ from the ifi BL? Even though all reviews stated an impression that the BL was more flat and natural sounding than other DAC's compared in similar price ranges. 
Maybe I'm not accustomed to hearing a more accurate sound reproduction from the recordings? All of the reviews of the ADI-2 DAC read that this was close to the second coming in regards to the DAC's ability to recreate the intended presentation of the recorded material, in respect to others in similar prices ranges and higher. I'm certainly not qualified to voice an educated review. 
What am I missing here? Is the ifi BL _That Good_? Or do I just need to learn my way around the available _tweakability_ of the RME? I'm an armchair drummer and cymbal reproduction and decay are typically areas that I use as a measuring stick for all of the gear combined as a whole.


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## Dithyrambes

the amp section of the RME is weak. Try running it through the BL amp, or a different amp.


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## kino lau

Dithyrambes said:


> the amp section of the RME is weak. Try running it through the BL amp, or a different amp.


Really? Because that seems pretty pointless since I expected the RME to be a significant improvement over the BL. Though there are no comparisons available anywhere. This is why I knew that I would need to do a side by side between the two DAC's. Why run the RME through the BL if I can achieve the desired sound through the ifi BL alone?


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## Dithyrambes

The dac portion and the wealth of options are the strength. the amp section is weak. even weaker than the idsd black label. The same goes for all in ones like the soekris dac1541...you aren't gonna hear what the dac can do through its internal amp.


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## kino lau

Dithyrambes said:


> The dac portion and the wealth of options are the strength. the amp section is weak. *even weaker than the idsd black label*. The same goes for all in ones like the soekris dac1541...you aren't gonna hear what the dac can do through its internal amp.



Weak isn't the thought that comes to mind when I'm listening to the BL with the out of the box settings. I've actually found myself amazed by what I've heard out it using my PC or QP1R upstream. It's all just plug and play. I expected to be significantly more impressed with the RME.


----------



## Dithyrambes

Weak not in the sense of power, though the RME Dac is weaker as it can't go turbo mode like idsd black label. The thing is you aren't going to hear what the RME can fully do because the amp section is holding back the dac section. I felt the same way with the IFI micro. The amp is "strong" but its definitely the bottle neck. Same with the dac1541. Go grab a resolving amp and see what the dac can do. That's why I don't like all in ones,esp ones that are very small...something is compromised. Go read @Torq s review on the new Holo cyan which seems to have better amp section than the rme or soekris. For your focal clears, maybe headamp gilmore lite mk2 might be a good fit. I don't know, but I'm sure it'll beat the BL out. Try using line out of the RME into the amp portion of the Black label. Maybe that may even be an improvement.


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## ZenErik (Aug 13, 2018)

kino lau said:


> So I need to spend some time with this DAC. But I did a side by side comparison between the RME and my ifi micro iDSD BL using my QP1R as the source and my Clear's for HP's. I used the optical input for both DAC's. I spent some time listening to the RME, which I had been thinking didn't share the clarity and crispness of cymbals and hi-hat that I had been used to from the BL. When I swapped to the ifi BL everything sounded more defined. The soundstage seemed to open up (Listening to Nutshell from Alice in Chains Unplugged), the kick drum was punchier and the hi-hat was more distinct. I swapped back to the 2 DAC and everything sounded more laid back. The kick wasn't as punchy (it was more accurate?) the soundstage sounded "different" but maintained an openness similar to the BL, and the cymbals and hi-hat were less distinct.
> I went back and forth a few times and my impressions were always the same. Volume matching played no part in the comparison because I varied the volume of the RME up and down while listening and the dynamics of the two DAC's were extremely different from one another. Maybe I'm just used to a colored SQ from the ifi BL? Even though all reviews stated an impression that the BL was more flat and natural sounding than other DAC's compared in similar price ranges.
> Maybe I'm not accustomed to hearing a more accurate sound reproduction from the recordings? All of the reviews of the ADI-2 DAC read that this was close to the second coming in regards to the DAC's ability to recreate the intended presentation of the recorded material, in respect to others in similar prices ranges and higher. I'm certainly not qualified to voice an educated review.
> What am I missing here? Is the ifi BL _That Good_? Or do I just need to learn my way around the available _tweakability_ of the RME? I'm an armchair drummer and cymbal reproduction and decay are typically areas that I use as a measuring stick for all of the gear combined as a whole.



It’s okay to prefer a cheaper product even if that’s not what you expected. Personally, I think the amp on the RME is quite good. Not ‘weak’ at all.

I’m curious whether you’d hear these same differences in an actual blind test. Now that a bias has developed with the sighted tests I don’t think that’s really going to change.

Either way, useful comparison for me. I’ve actually been thinking of trying the Micro iDSD BL though it’s a ‘downgrade’.

I’ve found differences between the ADI-2 DAC, Polaris, IHA-6, and Pro iCan to be rather minimal. That’s my opinion on solid state amps I’ve tried in general. Maybe some of those summitfi ones are a dramatic change, but I find the ones I mentioned I find much much more similar than different. On the other hand I find the color from a SET tube amp to be very noticeable.

When I first got the RME I compared the DAC portion with the Metrum Onyx ($2500 NOS DAC) using the Pro iCan. I thought the the RME sounded notably less natural and less full. Had a harder edge to the treble. Not that surprising especially considering NOS DACs have some treble roll off. But even with the RME on the NOS setting it just sounded off. I still ended up selling the Onyx because I liked the footprint of the RME and within a few days I didn’t really notice or care about the difference much. Got used to it.

Then I figured well, how’s the internal amp? Basically sounded the same as the Pro iCan with Xbass and 3D sound off. Even when the Pro iCan was in tube mode. Just my opinion. The tube distortion the Pro iCan adds is so minimal that it’s basically placebo. So I’m using the ADI-2 DAC built in amp over this solid state/hybrid that has a list price of $1800. Preferring cheaper gear isn’t a terrible thing, I promise. Your wallet will feel better about it too.


----------



## kino lau

Dithyrambes said:


> Weak not in the sense of power, though the RME Dac is weaker as it can't go turbo mode like idsd black label. The thing is you aren't going to hear what the RME can fully do because the amp section is holding back the dac section. I felt the same way with the IFI micro. The amp is "strong" but its definitely the bottle neck. Same with the dac1541. Go grab a resolving amp and see what the dac can do. That's why I don't like all in ones,esp ones that are very small...something is compromised. Go read @Torq s review on the new Holo cyan which seems to have better amp section than the rme or soekris. For your focal clears, maybe headamp gilmore lite mk2 might be a good fit. I don't know, but I'm sure it'll beat the BL out. Try using line out of the RME into the amp portion of the Black label. Maybe that may even be an improvement.


There's no need to even use the Turbo output of the BL and can't imagine any reason why I would _ever need_ to use anything but the Normal settings. There's no way to grab the output of the RME and connect to the inputs of the BL. In all honesty...when I first began listening to the 2 DAC, I was kind of afraid to do a side by side with the Black Label. Now I know why. It's really a bummer that I'm getting confirmations of what I hear, rather than suggestions that are focused on the RME as a stand-alone unit.


----------



## Torq

Dithyrambes said:


> Go read @Torq s review on the new Holo cyan which seems to have better amp section than the rme or soekris.



@Dithyrambes is referring to this review.

I'll get around to posting a copy of that here on Head-Fi when I feel like fighting with the XenForo post-editor.


----------



## ZenErik

kino lau said:


> There's no need to even use the Turbo output of the BL and can't imagine any reason why I would _ever need_ to use anything but the Normal settings. There's no way to grab the output of the RME and connect to the inputs of the BL. In all honesty...when I first began listening to the 2 DAC, I was kind of afraid to do a side by side with the Black Label. Now I know why. It's really a bummer that I'm getting confirmations of what I hear, rather than suggestions that are focused on the RME as a stand-alone unit.


You should be able to. There's a 1/8" line in on the front of the micro iDSD BL. Male RCA to male 1/8" should work to use the DAC portion of the ADI-2 with the micro iDSD BL amp.

Out of curiosity which filters are you using on each DAC? On the ADI-2 DAC Sharp has no treble roll off.  'NOS' starts rolling off pretty early and slow starts rolling off much later. Given that you've said I feel like you'd probably prefer the Sharp filter (or maybe SD Sharp).

Refer to pages 54 and 55 of the ADI-2 DAC manual. http://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dac_e.pdf


----------



## kino lau

ZenErik said:


> You should be able to. There's a 1/8" line in on the front of the micro iDSD BL. Male RCA to male 1/8" should work to use the DAC portion of the ADI-2 with the micro iDSD BL amp.
> 
> Out of curiosity which filters are you using on each DAC? On the ADI-2 DAC Sharp has no treble roll off.  'NOS' starts rolling off pretty early and slow starts rolling off much later. Given that you've said I feel like you'd probably prefer the Sharp filter (or maybe SD Sharp).
> 
> Refer to pages 54 and 55 of the ADI-2 DAC manual. http://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dac_e.pdf



Thanks for the suggestions. Like I said initially, I need to spend more time with this. I'm not overly thrilled about needing to run the RME through the BL but I'm open to trying it. Unfortunately, I don't have a male/male 3.5 mm cable so it's something I'll need to pick up sometime over the next few days. However, the combination would need to provide a level of sexual gratification to justify keeping a $1000 DAC that can't stand on its own. I didn't feel that the 2 DAC had any lack of power. But I do remember from my home stereo days that dynamic range is dependent on available power on reserve, not the continuous output. I'm going to play around with this for a few days "very carefully" since it may be going back. I'm in the process of picking up a Draug Silver cable from Norne for my Clears. The change in cables may lead to my being content with just using the Black Label. Right now...the BL is definitely more FUN to listen to than the RME.


----------



## ZenErik

kino lau said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. Like I said initially, I need to spend more time with this. I'm not overly thrilled about needing to run the RME through the BL but I'm open to trying it. Unfortunately, I don't have a male/male 3.5 mm cable so it's something I'll need to pick up sometime over the next few days. However, the combination would need to provide a level of sexual gratification to justify keeping a $1000 DAC that can't stand on its own. I didn't feel that the 2 DAC had any lack of power. But I do remember from my home stereo days that dynamic range is dependent on available power on reserve, not the continuous output. I'm going to play around with this for a few days "very carefully" since it may be going back. I'm in the process of picking up a Draug Silver cable from Norne for my Clears. The change in cables may lead to my being content with just using the Black Label. Right now...the BL is definitely more FUN to listen to than the RME.


As I said in the longer post it's perfectly fine to prefer the cheaper option. I don't think you should need to use the RCA to 1/8" either, but I was saying that the option is there if you wish to compare the headphone outs of each while using the RME DAC.

Without having heard the iFi micro iDSD BL, the main advantage the ADI-2 DAC offers is features. It's capable of a lot of things that the micro iDSD BL is not. That's awesome if you use and value those features. If you don't use them then a bit of the value of the ADI-2 DAC is lost. My personal favorite though completely unnecessary feature is the analyzer. I love looking at that thing when I'm listening to music.

Which filters are you using on each DAC? This will make a difference as well. Not just the headphone outs.


----------



## VRacer-111

The features are the main reason I got the RME ADI-2 DAC...mainly for the customizeable EQ and Bass/treble knobs, crossfeed, balance control, ability to verify the signal the DAC is outputing, and the graphical analyzer. Having a built in amp with headphone and IEM outputs doesn't hurt either, but the amp section wasn't of much concern to me as it's for a dedicated STAX based setup. Just recently got the setup mostly how I want it too:


----------



## Dithyrambes

@kino lau Any combo unit is going to be compromised so I wouldn't put it on just the RME dac. For example the Chord hugo 2 doesn't have the best headphone output, nor does the dave. I guess for easier to drive stuff like the focal clears, it should be fine, but I can definitely say getting a quality amp makes far bigger differences.


----------



## technobear

kino lau said:


> What am I missing here? Is the ifi BL _That Good_? Or do I just need to learn my way around the available _tweakability_ of the RME? I'm an armchair drummer and cymbal reproduction and decay are typically areas that I use as a measuring stick for all of the gear combined as a whole.



Firstly, if the RME is brand new versus a well used BL, then comparisons are pointless. Get some hours on the RME. It needs to break in.

Second, are you using the same digital filter in both cases? You can use Bit Perfect on the BL and NOS on the RME for a closer comparison.

Third, I take issue with all this nonsense about the RME amp being weak. The Focal Clear does not need huge amounts of power and the RME has plenty more than enough.

Fourth, both devices benefit from warm up so play them for at least half an hour (preferably an hour) before doing critical comparisons.


----------



## sodesuka

@kino lau
Maybe try activating Auto Ref. and/or Hi-Power options (on I/O -> Phones), should help with the dynamics


----------



## kino lau

sodesuka said:


> @kino lau
> Maybe try activating Auto Ref. and/or Hi-Power options (on I/O -> Phones), should help with the dynamics


That's my next attempt. I spent some time this morning playing with DAC filters, EQ settings and the like. I chose the Sharp filter mainly based on what is in the manual. If I wanted more high end and dynamics then I certainly wouldn't expect to get that from the other settings. I could be wrong. I figured out how to adjust the EQ, though it took me a tad bit to make changes and listen actively while making those changes. I realized when I was out of time that the Hi-Power was in the Off position. Previously, I noted that the power was on Auto, and as the volume increased it would switch from High to Low Power


----------



## technobear

kino lau said:


> That's my next attempt. I spent some time this morning playing with DAC filters, EQ settings and the like. I chose the Sharp filter mainly based on what is in the manual. If I wanted more high end and dynamics then I certainly wouldn't expect to get that from the other settings. I could be wrong. I figured out how to adjust the EQ, though it took me a tad bit to make changes and listen actively while making those changes. I realized when I was out of time that the Hi-Power was in the Off position. Previously, I noted that the power was on Auto, and as the volume increased it would switch from High to Low Power


Over on the RME forum, you can find settings to add treble pre-emphasis with the PEQ in order to counter the early roll off of the NOS filter. Then you get the best of both worlds - extended response and clean transients.


----------



## sodesuka

Just got Hugo 2 here with me. Using Flares Gold, compared to ADI-2 Dac, Hugo 2 sounds more 'exciting' due to what I think is upper mid 'sheen' yet both are about on par technically, however, RME unit is more forgiving with bad recordings, highs are smoother and easier on the ears though the edges of tones aren't as hard-hitting as Chord units (yet, I think these harder edge quality is also why ADI-2 seems to sound smoother)

Kinda hard to say which one I like more at this point (both units haven't seen much listening and burn in time yet, if it's even needed), but I might be leaning to ADI-2 for long listening sessions...

Tried with Headphone out of ADI-2 as I found IEM out to lack dynamics a bit compared to the HO


----------



## wirebrat

RME. Adjustability galore. Utopia. OMG.


----------



## Coltblue

technobear said:


> Over on the RME forum, you can find settings to add treble pre-emphasis with the PEQ in order to counter the early roll off of the NOS filter. Then you get the best of both worlds - extended response and clean transients.


hi, do you mind linking the post or a post. i would like to try.


----------



## technobear

Coltblue said:


> hi, do you mind linking the post or a post. i would like to try.


To answer your question, I would search this thread for 'NOS'.

Just type 'NOS' into the search box at the top right of this page and then click the box for 'Search this thread only'.

From the displayed results, the post you need is pretty obvious but here it is anyway:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-thread.868015/page-9#post-14152570


----------



## Coltblue

technobear said:


> To answer your question, I would search this thread for 'NOS'.
> 
> Just type 'NOS' into the search box at the top right of this page and then click the box for 'Search this thread only'.
> 
> ...


hey thanks


----------



## kino lau

Pretty sure I'm packing this up to send back.


----------



## ZenErik

Hitting us with this shocking news on a Sunday? That's rough man. Couldn't save the heartbreak for Monday?

Enjoy your micro iDSD BL.


----------



## Anaz

IMO the ADI-2 DAC's internal amp sounds a lot more lively with the DAC's loudness setting switched on, nonetheless, I usually output my ADI-2 DAC to a dedicated amp because I'm still trying to accept that DSP manipulation (other than crossfeed) is okay.

I tried the slow filter equalizer correction for 44.1 kHz audio and though the impact is subtle, it's definitely there and for the better. I continue to be blown away by this DAC!


----------



## kino lau

ZenErik said:


> Hitting us with this shocking news on a Sunday? That's rough man. Couldn't save the heartbreak for Monday?
> 
> Enjoy your micro iDSD BL.


Well, I've tried everything that folks have suggested, including setting the output to High Power, playing with the EQ settings and other options. If I had no other device to compare to...I'd most likely be happy as a clam, and I'd be singing the DAC's praises. It does sound excellent. There's no denying that. But next to the BL...it creates a fair amount of doubts. The output also seems limited even on High Power. When increasing the volume, it starts to break up at a much lower volume than expected. The retailer suggested possibly going into the Pro for $100 more. But the marked down Pro is the model before the Pro _fs. _The real advantage that I see is the balanced outs for the headphones. I'm completely confused and dismayed over this whole thing. 
Any unmentioned suggestions to try with the 2 DAC?


----------



## Dogmatrix

Often in headfi we speak of tweaks and mods which produce barely perceptible nuanced changes . A magic cable or some fluff stuffed behind a driver is announced as the new perfection .
These RME ADI units are pro level sound shaping devices , output can be modified over a wide range of parameters to near infinite variation .
If this is of no value best move on


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## ZenErik (Aug 20, 2018)

I agree. Don't think there's really any chance kino is going to change his mind at this point. Not really worth throwing more ideas up that may or may not really make a difference. To me initial impressions are very important. I have changed my mind after initial impressions, but it is a bit rare when it comes to audio.


----------



## Flater

kino lau said:


> Well, I've tried everything that folks have suggested, including setting the output to High Power, playing with the EQ settings and other options. If I had no other device to compare to...I'd most likely be happy as a clam, and I'd be singing the DAC's praises. It does sound excellent. There's no denying that. But next to the BL...it creates a fair amount of doubts. The output also seems limited even on High Power. When increasing the volume, it starts to break up at a much lower volume than expected. The retailer suggested possibly going into the Pro for $100 more. But the marked down Pro is the model before the Pro _fs. _The real advantage that I see is the balanced outs for the headphones. I'm completely confused and dismayed over this whole thing.
> Any unmentioned suggestions to try with the 2 DAC?


Have you also compared ADI-2 and BL using iems like your Andro's? Same impression as with the Clears?


----------



## kino lau

Flater said:


> Have you also compared ADI-2 and BL using iems like your Andro's? Same impression as with the Clears?


I thought about trying that, but I don't favor IEM's because of the sound isolating factor. I bought the Clears after buying two different pairs of IEM's and thought that I was completely happy with them. Then I listened to open back HP's which aren't isolating at all. Back to the question...I did consider the possibility of the 2 DAC paired with my Andros. However...I'm perfectly happy pairing with the QP1R. If the RME sounds better that's great, but I lose the portability that IEM's afford. 
I've spoken to the retailer and he has suggested I spend some time on the phone with one of their tech support guys to see if there might be something defective since they've only received stellar feedback on RME products. So I'm going to do that. I'm completely open to not having to ship anything back and would love to hear what I was hoping for.


----------



## Flater (Aug 24, 2018)

kino lau said:


> I thought about trying that, but I don't favor IEM's because of the sound isolating factor. I bought the Clears after buying two different pairs of IEM's and thought that I was completely happy with them. Then I listened to open back HP's which aren't isolating at all. Back to the question...I did consider the possibility of the 2 DAC paired with my Andros. However...I'm perfectly happy pairing with the QP1R. If the RME sounds better that's great, but I lose the portability that IEM's afford.
> I've spoken to the retailer and he has suggested I spend some time on the phone with one of their tech support guys to see if there might be something defective since they've only received stellar feedback on RME products. So I'm going to do that. I'm completely open to not having to ship anything back and would love to hear what I was hoping for.


Perhaps it is even possible to listen to a different unit, just to make sure yours isn’t defective in some sort of way. When it comes to important matters in life, one should be as rigorous as possible.

I was just curious whether you preference for BL relative to ADI-2 is headphone specific. That’s why I asked about the Andros. Perhaps it is the specific synergy with the Clears that doesn’t work out for you. If so, I understand that you send the unit back, it should serve your main HP well (especially the red/black pro version, which is a superior HP in any conceivable way due to the colors!).


----------



## kino lau

Flater said:


> Perhaps it is even possible to listen to a different unit, just to make sure yours isn’t defective in some sort of way. When it comes to important matters in life, one should be as rigorous as possible.
> 
> I was just curious whether you preference for BL relative to ADI-2 is headphone specific. That’s why I asked about the Andros. Perhaps it is the specific synergy with the Clears that doesn’t work out for you. If so, I understand that you send the unit back, it should serve your main HP well (especially the red/black pro version, which is a superior HP in any conceivable way due to the colors!).



The retailer wants to rule out any chance of a defective unit. I see that you're using the same HP's and IEM's. What are your impressions with the Clear's?


----------



## normanl

I listened to native DSD music with iem with DSD Direct (line) on and DSD Filter at 150 khz.  However, the loud portion of the music is extremely and unbearably loud even the volume is turned to the lowest level at -0.0 db. Is there anyway to further lower the volume to bearable level?


----------



## chungjun

New firmware up:- 

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27467


----------



## normanl

Where is the instruction to flash (install) the new firmware? I'd appreciate it if you can tell me how to do it correctly. Thanks.


----------



## Anaz

normanl said:


> Where is the instruction to flash (install) the new firmware? I'd appreciate it if you can tell me how to do it correctly. Thanks.



If you're on a *Mac*:

download the firmware from the link in the RME forum post
...when the file ZIP file unpacks, double click the *RME USB Series Flash Tool* app
Your ADI-2 will be in the Interfaces dropdown list (it goes without saying that your ADI-2 should be connected via USB). Click the *Update* button
*Restart* your ADI-2
I'm assuming the procedure should be similar in Windows.


----------



## normanl

Anaz said:


> If you're on a *Mac*:
> 
> download the firmware from the link in the RME forum post
> ...when the file ZIP file unpacks, double click the *RME USB Series Flash Tool* app
> ...



I'm using Win10. However, your instruction also works for Win10. Thanks!


----------



## lowvolume

normanl said:


> I listened to native DSD music with iem with DSD Direct (line) on and DSD Filter at 150 khz.  However, the loud portion of the music is extremely and unbearably loud even the volume is turned to the lowest level at -0.0 db. Is there anyway to further lower the volume to bearable level?



That's a bug that I reported to RME. The IEM out should be muted, like the Phones out. There is a reason that option is called 'Line'.


----------



## normanl

I just found another problem/bug when I listened to native DSD music (SACD) this time with hp (Beyerdyn DT880-600ohm) there was no sound at all, but no problem with PCM music files.On the other hand, DSD file generates extremely loud sound with iem. I just updated to the newest firmware today. Has anyone encountered the same problem? Can someone play native DSD files and see if it works?


----------



## ZenErik

You're not supposed to play DSD from the headphone outs on the ADI-2 DAC. I'd suggest reading the manual. If you're playing DSD you must use the line outs to a dedicated amp.


----------



## kvn864

normanl said:


> Where is the instruction to flash (install) the new firmware? I'd appreciate it if you can tell me how to do it correctly. Thanks.


There is nothing to know. If you have USB drivers installed, just download the zip file and run .exe file in it. Here is the firmware file (http://www.rme-audio.de/download/fut_madiface_win.zip)


----------



## normanl

ZenErik said:


> You're not supposed to play DSD from the headphone outs on the ADI-2 DAC. I'd suggest reading the manual. If you're playing DSD you must use the line outs to a dedicated amp.


My micro iDSD BL plays native DSD from the headphone output, so I thought ADI-2 DAC may work the same way.  Anyway, thanks for referring me to the manual, and it works through my Little Dot MK IV Amp. Strangely, IEM output is not deactivated when I play native DSD. Do you encounter the same issue?


----------



## lowvolume

Post #423.


----------



## NickedWicked

Oh man, they finally added quite some headroom for inter-sample peaks, this is great!


----------



## Flater

kino lau said:


> The retailer wants to rule out any chance of a defective unit. I see that you're using the same HP's and IEM's. What are your impressions with the Clear's?


I like the Clears with the ADI-2. I must say that I haven’t compared this device to many other dacs/amps. Before I had Mojo, and I think the ADI-2 is a definitive upgrade to my ears (more transparent, better soundstage, less dark/warm). The Clears/ADI-2 combo does need well recorded (acoustic) music to really shine. With mediocre/poorly mastered stuff it can be a bit underwhelming – although the EQ helps to make it better. The synergy with the Andro’s is really nice imo. Even poor recordings sound quite good. The same holds for my Nighthawk. Although my iems are for portable use, I quite often put them in the ADI-2 for listening to 80s pop music. So, all in all I am quite happy with the ADI-2 right now.


----------



## ZenErik

normanl said:


> My micro iDSD BL plays native DSD from the headphone output, so I thought ADI-2 DAC may work the same way.  Anyway, thanks for referring me to the manual, and it works through my Little Dot MK IV Amp. Strangely, IEM output is not deactivated when I play native DSD. Do you encounter the same issue?


I think the lack of volume control might be because RME uses digital volume control. The manual mentions the inability to use digital processing on native DSD. The micro iDSD BL uses analog volume control. I’m not super knowledgeable on DACs, but that is my understanding. 

I’m on a trip at the moment so I can’t check on the IEM out issue. @lowvolume mentioned that it’s a bug. Makes sense to me. Kind of a dangerous bug for listeners. The headphone outs should be disabled in DSD Direct (line) mode.


----------



## kino lau (Aug 25, 2018)

Flater said:


> I like the Clears with the ADI-2. I must say that I haven’t compared this device to many other dacs/amps. Before I had Mojo, and I think the ADI-2 is a definitive upgrade to my ears (more transparent, better soundstage, less dark/warm). The Clears/ADI-2 combo does need well recorded (acoustic) music to really shine. With mediocre/poorly mastered stuff it can be a bit underwhelming – although the EQ helps to make it better. The synergy with the Andro’s is really nice imo. Even poor recordings sound quite good. The same holds for my Nighthawk. Although my iems are for portable use, I quite often put them in the ADI-2 for listening to 80s pop music. So, all in all I am quite happy with the ADI-2 right now.


Interestingly, one of my default test recordings is Alice in Chains, Unplugged, which is all acoustic. It may not be what others would refer to as "reference" but I've listened to it through 2 different DAP's, 2 different IEM's, an IEM amp, 5 different IEM/HP Cables and two DAC/AMP's. So I know what I'm listening for. So my A/B for the BL and 2 DAC is valid for at least my ears. I still haven't gotten on the phone with Sweetwater's tech support.


----------



## Flater

kino lau said:


> Interestingly, one of my default test recordings is Alice in Chains, Unplugged, which is all acoustic. It may not be what others would refer to as "reference" but I've listened to it through 2 different DAP's, 2 different IEM's, an IEM amp, 5 different IEM/HP Cables and two DAC/AMP's. So I know what I'm listening for. So my A/B for the BL and 2 DAC is valid for at least my ears. I still haven't gotten on the phone with Sweetwater's tech support.


That's a great album, sounds excellent. I quite like these unplugged MTV albums, feels like one is at a live concert. I listened to the one from Nirvana a couple of times during my holiday, very involving. Did you get any feedback from your dealer?


----------



## kino lau

Flater said:


> That's a great album, sounds excellent. I quite like these unplugged MTV albums, feels like one is at a live concert. I listened to the one from Nirvana a couple of times during my holiday, very involving. Did you get any feedback from your dealer?


Today is the first day back at grad school, and the required reading alone will eat up the majority of my time. So I haven't spoken with tech support still. I may have the opportunity tonight before my life turns completely upside down. I keep thinking about your impressions of the Clears needing good quality recordings. I only have the one set of full-sized headphones, so I only care how they sound with the 2 DAC.


----------



## smodtactical

How does this Dac compare to Yggdrasil 2 ?


----------



## Collusion[FIN] (Aug 29, 2018)

smodtactical said:


> How does this Dac compare to Yggdrasil 2 ?



Very, very different presentation. I currently own the Yggdrasil Analog 2 and a SPL Phonitor 2 amplifier. I've previously owned the RME ADI-2 DAC. I ran it into Genelec 8030b monitors and HifiMan Sundara headphones. Balanced cables were used whenever possible.

RME has this super technical presentation, with almost no meat on the bones. Overall accuracy is very good, if we are talking about listeners ability to pick up details from the presentation. Tonal balance is largely neutral, without any big omissions or additions at any frequency. Sometimes lower midrange and upper bass might sound slightly muddy though. I feel tonal accuracy and timbre is somewhat off. Some instruments, say, like piano and violin may sound somewhat grainy or just bit unnatural. Usually not alarmingly so, but when comparing againts R2R/multibit dacs this tends to pop out. Depending on the recording, treble may sound a bit hot, but this also depends on your setup and digital filter preferance (mine was SD Slow).

Yggdrasil on the other hand:
- Sounds very natural, good tonal balance and tonal accuracy. Instruments sound natural. Individual tones separate better from each other.
- Yggdrasil has much more depth in its soundstage. Definitely more holographic. RME can sound a bit congested at times, if compared againts Yggy.
- Is definitely more dynamic. Volume variations are more convincing in both small and large scales.
- Has somewhat sweeter tone. RME is not clinical in comparison, but not enthusiastic either.
- Gives impression of better detail retrival. I am not sure if Yggy actually has more detail, but combined with better dynamics it gives this impression.

In my books, Yggdrasil wins easily in every category as a pure dac.


----------



## smodtactical

Collusion[FIN] said:


> Very, very different presentation. I currently own the Yggdrasil Analog 2 and a SPL Phonitor 2 amplifier. I've previously owned the RME ADI-2 DAC. I ran it into Genelec 8030b monitors and HifiMan Sundara headphones. Balanced cables were used whenever possible.
> 
> RME has this super technical presentation, with almost no meat on the bones. Overall accuracy is very good, if we are talking about listeners ability to pick up details from the presentation. Tonal balance is largely neutral, without any big omissions or additions at any frequency. Sometimes lower midrange and upper bass might sound slightly muddy though. I feel tonal accuracy and timbre is somewhat off. Some instruments, say, like piano and violin may sound somewhat grainy or just bit unnatural. Usually not alarmingly so, but when comparing againts R2R/multibit dacs this tends to pop out. Depending on the recording, treble may sound a bit hot, but this also depends on your setup and digital filter preferance (mine was SD Slow).
> 
> ...



 Thanks! Can any delta sigma dac in the world compare to the yggy 2?


----------



## Collusion[FIN]

smodtactical said:


> Thanks! Can any delta sigma dac in the world compare to the yggy 2?



Your question would be more sensible if it would be rephrased like this: "Can any delta sigma dac in Yggy's price range compare to it?"

Well, I haven't hear all the D/S dacs in the world, so I cannot give you any definitive answers. Having owned a Chord Hugo 2, I can say it ( and the Qutest based on same tech ) has great technical performance and sound quality. Better than ADI-2 DAC, but somewhat behind Yggdrasil Analog 2. Chord Dave is rumoured to be a big improvement over the lesser Chord units, but it also much more expensive than Yggdrasil.


----------



## smodtactical

Collusion[FIN] said:


> Your question would be more sensible if it would be rephrased like this: "Can any delta sigma dac in Yggy's price range compare to it?"
> 
> Well, I haven't hear all the D/S dacs in the world, so I cannot give you any definitive answers. Having owned a Chord Hugo 2, I can say it ( and the Qutest based on same tech ) has great technical performance and sound quality. Better than ADI-2 DAC, but somewhat behind Yggdrasil Analog 2. Chord Dave is rumoured to be a big improvement over the lesser Chord units, but it also much more expensive than Yggdrasil.



Well taken.

Or I could rephrase by saying can any Delta Sigma DAC beat yggdrasil analog 2 at any price besides chord Dave.

A couple guys on Amazon remarked how lks mk 004 beat yggy 1 !


----------



## Konev

Hello everyone!
I'm sorry, but I have to ask everybody again:

I'm using DAC *MHDT Havana* (PCM56P-K) with original *Lehmann Audio Black Cube Linear*. My headphone is *Audio-Technica ATH-W5000*. I have very big collection of lossless files 16/44,1. 
Due a limitation of my Havana to 16 bit my collection of HD files is smaller than I would like to have. So I think to change my DAC Havana to RME ADI-2 DAC...

1/ Does anyone had experience to compare Havana vs ADI-2 DAC on CD sound?

2/ Will ADI-2 DAC work well with Audio-Technica ATH-W5000? Or Lehmann Audio Linear is more powerful and better for my headphone?

Thank you in advance!


----------



## NickedWicked

Anyone know if ASIO is working correctly in Foobar2K with the ADI-2 when not having a ASIO plugin installed? Without the ASIO plugin Foobar just says the ADI-2 is a DirectSound output, with the ASIO plugin I can select the ASIO version of the Madiface aka ADI-2. But I think it's unnecessary as the ADI-2 Windows driver already applies system-wide ASIO support but I might be wrong.


----------



## technobear

NickedWicked said:


> Anyone know if ASIO is working correctly in Foobar2K with the ADI-2 when not having a ASIO plugin installed? Without the ASIO plugin Foobar just says the ADI-2 is a DirectSound output, with the ASIO plugin I can select the ASIO version of the Madiface aka ADI-2. But I think it's unnecessary as the ADI-2 Windows driver already applies system-wide ASIO support but I might be wrong.


Think you answered your own question there.


----------



## NickedWicked

technobear said:


> Think you answered your own question there.



It looked that way, however I asked it on the RME forums as well and someone pointed out I was wrong and ASIO has to be set in every individual program to utilize ASIO properly. Problem solved!


----------



## kino lau

Flater said:


> That's a great album, sounds excellent. I quite like these unplugged MTV albums, feels like one is at a live concert. I listened to the one from Nirvana a couple of times during my holiday, very involving. Did you get any feedback from your dealer?


Called tech support this afternoon pretty much knowing what the result was going to be. Listening is subjective. This is going back...


----------



## jonathane40

kino lau said:


> Called tech support this afternoon pretty much knowing what the result was going to be. Listening is subjective. This is going back...



So are you back with the iFi Micro BL or have you found another dac/amp you like better?


----------



## kino lau

jonathane40 said:


> So are you back with the iFi Micro BL or have you found another dac/amp you like better?


I'm sticking with the Black Label for now. I was hoping to one day get into a Pro iCan, but most of the reviews that I've read state the RME possibly being on par with it. It's just the DAC/AMP combo with the Clears. If I had multiple full sized HP's the 2 DAC would be perfect I'm sure. With my classes back in session, I just don't have the time to be playing around with different gear. The BL/Clear combo sounds incredible and will most likely be my set-up until I'm done with grad school...unless something breaks or I hit the Lotto.


----------



## yogibeezwax

Just got the adi-2 dac and I'm floored how "quiet" this DAC is! Now, I'm in no way on par with most of you..not as articulate when it comes to describing sound but I have it hooked up to my Oppo Ha-1 and the sound is (As I perceive it) incredibly clean, nothing but the source. I haven't even begun to explore the equalizer, bass &treble, but as a DAC in lineout to my ha1; more than happy!! If anyone has any good equalizer settings for he-400i, I'd appreciate suggestions!


----------



## Anaz

yogibeezwax said:


> Just got the adi-2 dac and I'm floored how "quiet" this DAC is! Now, I'm in no way on par with most of you..not as articulate when it comes to describing sound but I have it hooked up to my Oppo Ha-1 and the sound is (As I perceive it) incredibly clean, nothing but the source. I haven't even begun to explore the equalizer, bass &treble, but as a DAC in lineout to my ha1; more than happy!! If anyone has any good equalizer settings for he-400i, I'd appreciate suggestions!





Try the "Slow" DA filter - the highs are rolled off a little and you might like it with the 400i. (Look a few pages back there's a link to an EQ setting to compensate for the Slow DA filter's treble roll off). And definitely play around with the "Loudness" setting.


----------



## yogibeezwax (Sep 7, 2018)

Thanx Anaz! Chrome doesn't seem to like adding quotes...but I appreciate the suggestions! Will try it out now! And for all of you that contributed to this thread...wouldn't have even considered this gem if I didn't follow this thread, granted I probably missed some of the conversation since purchasing, but as a layman; I really appreciate all y'all banter! 
Edit - enabled loudless and at lower levels I hear the difference; more punch!


----------



## yogibeezwax (Sep 7, 2018)

Thanks for the the heads up! I really appreciate it! I know I'm way beyond my limits here, but alI in all, have and an appreciation for the input as a newbie..made my two first xlr interconnects today to link my ha-1 and great success with that endeavour...just trying to get in "the game"! Thanks for this sub! A lot of us are not as knowledge, but I listen...and take in!


----------



## Satcher (Sep 12, 2018)

Gotta say, it's amazing how any listener can interpret their audio gear in completely different ways, but that's what makes this hobby interesting (and frustrating at the same time).

I had the iFi Micro BL and while I enjoyed the hell outta the thing, the brief moments when you pause a song and start playing something else and encounter the cut off due to its energy saver mode (I vaguely recall that was the cause of the songs not playing immediately after a pause, correct me if I'm wrong) was a real deal breaker for me. I also recall in these sorts of instances, there was audible hiss in the background with sensitive IEMs like the Andromeda. This was easily fixed if you used the IEmatch feature, which I did use, but because I felt like I wasn't getting the "punch" I wanted in my music like I did on normal mode, I didn't use it often. The extra bass boost switch and 3d settings were fun to use, but I wanted more control.

The RME ADI-2 DAC is just so seamless and customizable, and it lends itself wonderfully to really detailed oriented headphones/IEMs. While it isn't as powerful as other headphone amps/dacs I've tried over the past year or so, I find it to be very sufficient and plenty loud with the likes of the HD 800 at around -15db in hi-power mode and it's able to keep that impressive feat while retaining a black background when I wanted to use the Flamenco via the IEM port (I really love how it tracks the last settings you used when using a particular port, a really awesome/understated feature in my eyes); I can't emphasize enough how hard it is find a headphone amp that's able to juggle both without introducing that annoying hiss due to amount of power drawn for sensitive gear, even those that are advertised as IEM amps (I'm looking at you CMA400i / WA8 Eclipse, I could still hear that hiss). The RME ADI-2 DAC is the only one I found to be legitmately pitch black. The overall sound signature doesn't stand out, but I feel like that's something a solid state amp should strive for when you're wanting something truly transparent in a studio type of environment, and this thing does it easily while giving you plenty of options to tweak it that a lot of users aren't really taking advantage of.


It's just a little disappointing that some of the common complaints about the RME ADI-2 DAC stem from people saying there isn't anything that "wows" them about the unit, but they gloss over all its features or ignore the benefits it brings compared to other offerings. At the current price point, this thing really is a steal and I absolutely adored it since I first got it.


----------



## Hellraiser86

The RME has a awesome integration of the 4490 AKM converter (the headphone amp is also good but not at the same level) and that's why even mastering studios (another example Sonarworks.they use it for headphone measurements for their Reference software which is also used in many studios) around the globe appreciate this little beauty - but of course mostly the pro edition because of the ADC.


----------



## yogibeezwax

Absolutely loving this gem of a DAC (that's how I'm using it now) and in comparison to my Ha-1, this beauty is silent.regardless of cranking it to the max or turning it way down low...just so clean! Glad your happy with it too @Satcher


----------



## lucadoc

Hi all, 

I'd like to find a good dac with pre function to directly connect to my power Amp Arcam P 1000 (it has rca and xlr inputs). My source is a pc with foobar so I can use USB or optical out. 

Do you think that this rme could be a good option or there are other Dac pre like topping or gustard that I could choose?


----------



## Collusion[FIN]

FYI: There's a new alternative for the ADI-2 DAC ( from RME ): ADI-2 FS

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/adi_2_fs.php

It omits the DSP functionality, as well as some HP functionality. But it actually ads an A/D stage. The D/A stage seems to be identical to ADI-2 DAC ( specifications wise at least ). It is also somewhat cheaper than ADI-2 DAC at 700€.


----------



## boxerlc

I compared Adi2 DAC and chord 2qute before, both using USB as input.

I think 2qute has better sound quality. The reasons are: Both DACs have enough detials, however 2qute has more control over the sound when music gets complicated and fast; 2qute is more transparent and light providing more convincing texture of the instruments, while Adi2 sounds plain and even a little dull. 

Adi2 has a really good amp section which I think is really good for grado headphones, my GH2s never sound better on my standalone amp. The interface, functionality and the build quality are both really good.

I bought Adi2 DAC thought it might be an upgrade to my original 2qute, but it's not, so I later got rid of both of them and got a quest. Didn't compare quest with either of those 2, but I think it's a conservative upgrade.


----------



## cerilia

I don't know if I have something misconfigured or if it's just a really poor pairing, but I find the ADI-2 DAC unlistenable through the Focal Clears. This is coming from the HD650.


----------



## yogibeezwax (Sep 20, 2018)

Clari


cerilia said:


> I don't know if I have something misconfigured or if it's just a really poor pairing, but I find the ADI-2 DAC unlistenable through the Focal Clears. This is coming from the HD650.



Would you mind clarifying?
What's the input?
Is it a issue of volume?


----------



## kino lau

cerilia said:


> I don't know if I have something misconfigured or if it's just a really poor pairing, but I find the ADI-2 DAC unlistenable through the Focal Clears. This is coming from the HD650.


Welcome to the club. I played with the 2 DAC for a couple weeks and sent it back. I read in an earlier post that "People are always looking for a Wow factor out of new equipment." Well YEAH...that's the ONLY reason I spend $1K on a new piece of gear. If I wanted to continue to hear marginal...I'll bring my Gen I X5 in from the car and use that as my desktop...lol


----------



## sodesuka (Sep 21, 2018)

FWIW, I prefer ADI-2 than Hugo 2 right now. And yes, the difference is marginal (and highly subjective), or at least it's not $2K worth.

It's all about what you want to hear out of your setup and pairing of course, ADI-2 is transparent as it doesn't add or take away anything to the recording which is a negative for some people. Hugo 2 is all about clarity through the roof... and will make it abundantly clear to you just how laser focused it is at its task especially with bright-ish cans.

It's also really easy to mess up the sounds with the setting on ADI-2, I once set width or smth to 0 thinking 100 was not the correct neutral one, but turned out it turned everything to Mono. So yeah, RTFM is pretty essential with ADI-2.


----------



## Anaz (Sep 26, 2018)

cerilia said:


> I don't know if I have something misconfigured or if it's just a really poor pairing, but I find the ADI-2 DAC unlistenable through the Focal Clears. This is coming from the HD650.



I'm listening to music right now on a Focal x Massdrop Elex through an RME ADI-2 DAC and I think the sound is perfectly fine.

Edit: For the record the ADI-2’s amp is too neutral for my taste without activating the “loudness” setting and I usually use a separate amp anyway, but I wouldn’t call the ADI-2’s amp unlistenable by any stretch. Try switching on the ADI-2’s loudness setting for a more euphoric sound.


----------



## chungjun

RME boys hard at work... if you have not already noticed a new Firmware up as at 27 Sep 2018:-

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27672


----------



## tekkster

chungjun said:


> RME boys hard at work... if you have not already noticed a new Firmware up as at 27 Sep 2018:-
> 
> https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27672



I don't see the ADI-2 listed as among the devices this firmware will update.
Have you applied the firmware to the ADI-2?


----------



## devante1977

DAC = ADI-2


----------



## tekkster

Ahhh, of course.  Thanks.


----------



## wirebrat

I plugged in my ADI-2 DAC into an old PS Audio Ultimate Outlet. I really like how it's refined the overall presentation of the audio. Overall, the individual instruments and vocals in the high- and mid-range were more distinct, the bass tightened up a little to find it's place better, and everything seemed to be wrapped with a little more "air" around it (in a good way.)

I was able to do quick change comparisons with and without the UO. For me, the overall sound was always better with it. I wouldn't describe the change as something hugely transformational. However, I will say the difference put a smile on my face. I was closer to where I expected the music to be. 

I've struggled with enjoying my main audio rig due to the birth of my wonderful new son. So I've been dabbling in headphone gear for about a year or so. I went through a number of cans (which was fun and frustrating), and settled on the Focal Utopia and the flexibility of the ADI-2 DAC. For 3-4 months I found this to be a reasonably good pairing because of all the adjustments the ADI-2 DAC offers. Purists may look down on any tonal interference in the audio path, but for me it's about tuning something to what I either know the audio track should sound like based upon my historical experience with it over many years or simply to my liking. 

In my opinion, I think that anytime you're listening using a headphone or IEM you're immediately compromising things. The ADI-2 DAC could use more ummph as an amp for sure. It's DAC isn' the best in the business. Personally, I'd pay 2-3x if RME went all out on this unit component wise. But the Utopia, ADI-2 DAC, and Ultimate Outlet is indeed putting a smile on my face where I look forward to listening to the trio more now. YMMV.


----------



## yogibeezwax

"Overall, the individual instruments and vocals in the high- and mid-range were more distinct, the bass tightened up a little to find it's place better, and everything seemed to be wrapped with a little more "air" around it (in a good way.)" 

Thanks for sharing what I couldn't put in to words, I completely relate to your  description..my set up is a bit different, but I'm experiencing the same!


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Hey guys, im extremely tempted to pick an RME ADI-2 DAC up as a home solution for my PC. I was wondering if the onboard amp is powerful enough to drive some headphones that i have or will be buying in the near future.
Primarily will it drive my Fostex TH900 mk2, BeyerDynamic DT1990 Pro and in near future Audeze LCD2C(Classic) and possibly Hifiman Sundara and AKG K712 Pro. Thanks very much for your time 

also does anyone know of any common faults with the dac/amp and if any weird quirks have crept up after daily use? would greatly appreciate it


----------



## SAndreev

Tsukuyomi said:


> Hey guys, im extremely tempted to pick an RME ADI-2 DAC up as a home solution for my PC. I was wondering if the onboard amp is powerful enough to drive some headphones that i have or will be buying in the near future.
> Primarily will it drive my Fostex TH900 mk2, BeyerDynamic DT1990 Pro and in near future Audeze LCD2C(Classic) and possibly Hifiman Sundara and AKG K712 Pro. Thanks very much for your time
> 
> also does anyone know of any common faults with the dac/amp and if any weird quirks have crept up after daily use? would greatly appreciate it



With latest firmware/drivers minor issues I had were fixed. the DAC part of ADI-2 DAC is its strongest side. Amp is decent but not extraordinary. It is powerful enough to drive most phones (don't forget there is a Hi-Power mode if you need), but I like the sound more out of my MJ2, except maybe when using my Denons.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

SAndreev said:


> With latest firmware/drivers minor issues I had were fixed. the DAC part of ADI-2 DAC is its strongest side. Amp is decent but not extraordinary. It is powerful enough to drive most phones (don't forget there is a Hi-Power mode if you need), but I like the sound more out of my MJ2, except maybe when using my Denons.


seems fair, if worse case arises and im not able to power my headphones sufficiently. do you think maybe a Schiit Asgard 2 or JDS Labs EL Amp would be a good pairing to boost power? or would that be excessive?


----------



## SAndreev

Tsukuyomi said:


> seems fair, if worse case arises and im not able to power my headphones sufficiently. do you think maybe a Schiit Asgard 2 or JDS Labs EL Amp would be a good pairing to boost power? or would that be excessive?



Don't worry about the power, it has plenty. I just prefer the MJ2 with ifi tubes, but it is more a matter of preference. Just try it. Also don't be shy to explore all the DSP options the DAC provides, you can really tailor the sound to your liking.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

SAndreev said:


> Don't worry about the power, it has plenty. I just prefer the MJ2 with ifi tubes, but it is more a matter of preference. Just try it. Also don't be shy to explore all the DSP options the DAC provides, you can really tailor the sound to your liking.


I really appreciate the feedback, i'll visit my local studio equipment store and see if i can give it a listen  thanks very much! i'll definitely be back when ive had a listen to give feedback or ask questions.


----------



## Keisuk3

Considering picking one of these up, and selling off my Theta.


----------



## jerick70

Tsukuyomi said:


> Hey guys, im extremely tempted to pick an RME ADI-2 DAC up as a home solution for my PC. I was wondering if the onboard amp is powerful enough to drive some headphones that i have or will be buying in the near future.
> Primarily will it drive my Fostex TH900 mk2, BeyerDynamic DT1990 Pro and in near future Audeze LCD2C(Classic) and possibly Hifiman Sundara and AKG K712 Pro. Thanks very much for your time
> 
> also does anyone know of any common faults with the dac/amp and if any weird quirks have crept up after daily use? would greatly appreciate it


The Pro version is going to serve you better if you are wanting an all in one unit to drive full sized headphones.  I've owned both and still own the pro version.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

jerick70 said:


> The Pro version is going to serve you better if you are wanting an all in one unit to drive full sized headphones.  I've owned both and still own the pro version.


I did consider the pro version, as they had the BE edition online for sale, however the price was out of my reach... thats why im considering the ADI-2 DAC since its "cheaper".


----------



## jerick70

Tsukuyomi said:


> I did consider the pro version, as they had the BE edition online for sale, however the price was out of my reach... thats why im considering the ADI-2 DAC since its "cheaper".


What's your budget?


----------



## VRacer-111

Tsukuyomi said:


> Hey guys, im extremely tempted to pick an RME ADI-2 DAC up as a home solution for my PC. I was wondering if the onboard amp is powerful enough to drive some headphones that i have or will be buying in the near future.
> Primarily will it drive my Fostex TH900 mk2, BeyerDynamic DT1990 Pro and in near future Audeze LCD2C(Classic) and possibly Hifiman Sundara and AKG K712 Pro. Thanks very much for your time
> 
> also does anyone know of any common faults with the dac/amp and if any weird quirks have crept up after daily use? would greatly appreciate it



While it has the power, I don't like how it pairs with Fostex/Denon Biodyna driver headphones... they sound much better out the warmer amps I prefer. Mine is not really used daily, as it's for my STAX setup, but I do use it often and can't think of any issues with it... it works fine.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

jerick70 said:


> What's your budget?


around 1,500$ CND so the ADI-2 DAC is a tiny tiny bit higher but im ok with that much give.


----------



## jerick70

Tsukuyomi said:


> around 1,500$ CND so the ADI-2 DAC is a tiny tiny bit higher but im ok with that much give.


I was going to say you could pick up a used pro version for about $1500 USD. This doesn't fit your budget though.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

jerick70 said:


> I was going to say you could pick up a used pro version for about $1500 USD. This doesn't fit your budget though.


Yeah, for now im gonna buy the ADI-2 DAC for a Christmas gift to myself in a few months. i think there are a few studio shops in my city that already have it... or buy it early and pay it off slowly hahaha.


----------



## matti55

Really tempted to pick one of these up simply just based on how cool it looks. Are there any other options out there with such a nice looking interface and such a variety of settings? Any recommendations for an amp pairing?


----------



## tekkster

matti55 said:


> Really tempted to pick one of these up simply just based on how cool it looks. Are there any other options out there with such a nice looking interface and such a variety of settings? Any recommendations for an amp pairing?



I agree, I really love this unit.  Dunno of anything else that has the same analyzer.  I pair with the iFi iCan Pro, and love it with the HD800 for classical music


----------



## SuperelvinSH

Only regarding "sound quality", how does this compares to a Mojo or a iDSD Black Label?


----------



## gepardcv

The Mytek line has spectrum analyzers and some interesting preamp features (a phono stage, I believe?) along with a distinctive industrial design. Somewhat pricier than RME, though, and lacks DSP features.


----------



## matti55

gepardcv said:


> The Mytek line has spectrum analyzers and some interesting preamp features (a phono stage, I believe?) along with a distinctive industrial design. Somewhat pricier than RME, though, and lacks DSP features.



Interesting, the Brooklyn+ dac looks pretty good, but I guess the ADI-2 has it beat in value to price ratio.


----------



## Phoniac

I've never seen an analyzer screen on any Mytek product, only level meters. AFAIK the only product with a similar analyzer is the Lynx HiLo. The Oppo HA-1 did have an 'Analyzer' style display, but it sucked big time in resolution and accuracy.


----------



## devante1977

I demo'd the mytek brooklyn dac+ at a retailer and it was awesome...if you are trying to justify or compare the price, it really depends on how important those features are to you. Personally, I went the RME route due to price (bought it at a used price) and what I needed, then went on to compare what I wanted....smarter play was obviously the RME and haven't looked back/have regrets.


----------



## occamsrazor

If you like flashing lights.... analyzer and level meters....


----------



## Phoniac

Where da bass?


----------



## VRacer-111

matti55 said:


> Really tempted to pick one of these up simply just based on how cool it looks. Are there any other options out there with such a nice looking interface and such a variety of settings? Any recommendations for an amp pairing?




It's kind of unique in all that it does and its layout, not sure of anything else that is like it. For my pairing, really like it with my NAD C275BEE which brings warmth and dynamics while the more neutral RME ADI-2 DAC brings excellent clarity and black level to things. Perfect for my STAX setup.


----------



## tekkster

SuperelvinSH said:


> Only regarding "sound quality", how does this compares to a Mojo or a iDSD Black Label?



I have all three products.  And my sound preferences lean towards less bass, more mid, clear treble.  My ears aren't that great, so my opinion may not matter much.
To me, the iDSD BL is the bassiest of the bunch by its very nature.  Turn on the bass boost feature, and it's enough to make my HD800s sound bassy (though a little muddy at times).  The Mojo has the most detail, as in, it brings up minor details to make them more prominent, and makes very small details that are invisible on many other DACs, visible.  
The RME ADI-2 doesn't quite attain the level of detail of the Mojo (again, just really bringing up lower or smaller sounds more than anything else), but I would say it clearly beats the iDSD BL in my book for detail, nice sound separation.  

When set to a flat EQ, the RME doesn't quite have the impact and oomph of the iDSD BL, but with the RME, you have a TON of control over EQ, plus, you can change the default bass through settings, separate from the EQ settings.  So producing an ideal sound for any headphone is relatively easy.  If you want bass, it's there.
Even better, you can save multiple EQ and Headphone settings, depending on the headphone you use, which is a huge plus.  

Add to that the balanced outs to connect to an amp, and you have one seriously versatile system in an unbelievably tiny package.

I never use the iDSD BL anymore.  It's just a backup in case I intent to travel and the MojoPoly isn't working for whatever reason.

I also have the Jot, which doesn't get used much anymore either.

And finally, I have the Hugo 2, which I use when walking around the house, but will probably become my primary if I ever save up enough for the M Scaler.  

Seriously, though, the RME is so great at fine tuning a sound profile, and also analyzing frequencies of songs and instruments and voices, that I can't imagine ever not having it as my primary or secondary system.


----------



## knopi (Oct 28, 2018)

devante1977 said:


> I demo'd the mytek brooklyn dac+ at a retailer and it was awesome...if you are trying to justify or compare the price, it really depends on how important those features are to you. Personally, I went the RME route due to price (bought it at a used price) and what I needed, then went on to compare what I wanted....smarter play was obviously the RME and haven't looked back/have regrets.



Brooklyn as DAC is great. As dac/preamp it is also very very fine still high level. But if someone will borrow really quality reference preamp than wow, more aim on core more denser cleaner more dynamic pin point stage calm flow adulter.
And last one as headphone amp it is the real one weakness in my eyes but I think that problem have most of the dac/amps and probably including RME or maybe headphones are just bad suck .


----------



## SuperelvinSH

tekkster said:


> I have all three products.  And my sound preferences lean towards less bass, more mid, clear treble.  My ears aren't that great, so my opinion may not matter much.
> To me, the iDSD BL is the bassiest of the bunch by its very nature.  Turn on the bass boost feature, and it's enough to make my HD800s sound bassy (though a little muddy at times).  The Mojo has the most detail, as in, it brings up minor details to make them more prominent, and makes very small details that are invisible on many other DACs, visible.
> The RME ADI-2 doesn't quite attain the level of detail of the Mojo (again, just really bringing up lower or smaller sounds more than anything else), but I would say it clearly beats the iDSD BL in my book for detail, nice sound separation.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the complete answer!
I'm actually very happy with the Mojo but I was thinking about getting the  iDSD BL over the Mojo because it's seems to be way more powerful and its more versatile but wow, if the SQ/level of detail is that bad in comparison, I will be disappointed. I guess I will have to try the BL first...
The RME will probably be my "end game"


----------



## tekkster

SuperelvinSH said:


> Thanks for the complete answer!
> I'm actually very happy with the Mojo but I was thinking about getting the  iDSD BL over the Mojo because it's seems to be way more powerful and its more versatile but wow, if the SQ/level of detail is that bad in comparison, I will be disappointed. I guess I will have to try the BL first...
> The RME will probably be my "end game"



I think I might have given the wrong impression.  It's true that the iDSD BL is not as good in detail as the Mojo or ADI-2 DAC.  But it's still a ton more detail than going straight from a PC or a smart phone.  It's great.  To me, the iDSD BL is only disappointing when I switch to it after using the Mojo or Hugo 2 for a long time and am listening to the same songs.  But if I'm just listening to the BL, it sounds amazing, especially as a transportable device with a battery.

It's just not quite as good at detail retrieval as the Mojo.  Which, doesn't matter for a lot of music.  It really only matters for music with a ton of complexity.  Like orchestral classical pieces, ensemble jazz, etc.


----------



## cardeli22

SuperelvinSH said:


> Thanks for the complete answer!
> I'm actually very happy with the Mojo but I was thinking about getting the  iDSD BL over the Mojo because it's seems to be way more powerful and its more versatile but wow, if the SQ/level of detail is that bad in comparison, I will be disappointed. I guess I will have to try the BL first...
> The RME will probably be my "end game"


Realistically I have seen countless personal opinions going back and forth about which people prefer (the Mojo or the micro BL). I have heard both before I purchased the BL and thought they both have a great sound just different. I chose the BL because of its versatility and more powerful amp but realistically I could have chosen the Mojo too and been happy as well. As usual try when you can or find a place to buy with a good return policy.


----------



## SuperelvinSH

tekkster said:


> I think I might have given the wrong impression.  It's true that the iDSD BL is not as good in detail as the Mojo or ADI-2 DAC.  But it's still a ton more detail than going straight from a PC or a smart phone.  It's great.  To me, the iDSD BL is only disappointing when I switch to it after using the Mojo or Hugo 2 for a long time and am listening to the same songs.  But if I'm just listening to the BL, it sounds amazing, especially as a transportable device with a battery.
> 
> It's just not quite as good at detail retrieval as the Mojo.  Which, doesn't matter for a lot of music.  It really only matters for music with a ton of complexity.  Like orchestral classical pieces, ensemble jazz, etc.


It's alright mate, thanks for the info!


----------



## SuperelvinSH

cardeli22 said:


> Realistically I have seen countless personal opinions going back and forth about which people prefer (the Mojo or the micro BL). I have heard both before I purchased the BL and thought they both have a great sound just different. I chose the BL because of its versatility and more powerful amp but realistically I could have chosen the Mojo too and been happy as well. As usual try when you can or find a place to buy with a good return policy.


Good idea, thanks!


----------



## Keisuk3

Man this thing really makes a lot of sense as my next DAC. I just want out of my vintage meme, but the features on this dac seem to push me towards actually selling it.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Would you guys say that the ADI-2 DAC sounds warm? bright? neutral?


----------



## JSOppenheimer (Nov 1, 2018)

Tsukuyomi said:


> Would you guys say that the ADI-2 DAC sounds warm? bright? neutral?


Very neutral, it's not really warm, neither is it cold or clinical. At least in my experience, no matter what headphone you use with it, you just get that headphone's default sound signature with practically nothing added or removed. That means that it works rather well with all gear I've thrown at it, but it also means that it's not going to smooth out anything if you use bright headphones with it - applying EQ or using a tube amp to give the sound some warmth may be a good idea in that case, if you happen to be of treble sensitive type.

And to clarify: yes, I absolutely goddamn love it as a combo DAC/amp unit. It has the blackest background imaginable, it sounds so clean and detailed, yet it still doesn't add any artificial shrillness or edge to the music. When you combine that with the ridiculous featureset (EQ! Adjustable DAC filters! Adjustable crossfeed! Remote!), I don't believe that there's anything else that can match it at its current price point. I may get a tube amp to accompany it later, but it covers DAC and solid state amp functions so well, that there's zero upgradeitis left on that side of matters.


----------



## VRacer-111

Tsukuyomi said:


> Would you guys say that the ADI-2 DAC sounds warm? bright? neutral?



Agree with JSOppenheimer that it's pretty neutral - neutral with EXTREMELY excellent black level and clarity/detail. It's not really what I like for most of my headphones (just doesn't work for me with the Fostex TH-X00s, even outputting to a separate Gustard H10 amp - sound just seems too lacking in the low end and fullness compared to my Gustard X20U DAC and modded Gustard H10 amp setup specifically tweaked for the TH-X00PH's) but I got it really just for my STAX L300 Limited setup. Setup uses a NAD C275BEE stereo amp which brings out more lowend, fullness, and punch to the L300 LEs very well while the RME ADI-2 DAC works well with the natural clarity, speed, and detail of Electrostats. Plus crossfeed and fully customizable EQ really help to tune the L300 LE's like I want as well. I REALLY like the RME ADI-2 DAC for my STAX setup... and it also works very well with Campfire Audio Cascades plugged straight into the headphone out.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

And for my last question before i hit the "order" button on my local audio shops website for the ADI-2 DAC 
how is heat? i've owned a Violectric HPA200 before and there was almost 0 heat issues with mine the only time it ever got "warm" was when i was too tired and forgot to turn it off and left it on for 24hrs.
also how useful is the remote controls distance? do you guys use it much at all? im assuming most of you use it as a desktop solution. also have you had any issues with drivers when connecting to a pc via USB? or should i just connect via optical?

and before you ask, yes, i've sold my Fostex TH900mk2 and Violectric to get the money for the ADI-2 DAC hahah. i hope that when i get the ADI-2 DAC it will be my "end game" source device. which means i can focus more on headphones and DAP for portable use.


----------



## tekkster

Tsukuyomi said:


> And for my last question before i hit the "order" button on my local audio shops website for the ADI-2 DAC
> how is heat? i've owned a Violectric HPA200 before and there was almost 0 heat issues with mine the only time it ever got "warm" was when i was too tired and forgot to turn it off and left it on for 24hrs.
> also how useful is the remote controls distance? do you guys use it much at all? im assuming most of you use it as a desktop solution. also have you had any issues with drivers when connecting to a pc via USB? or should i just connect via optical?
> 
> and before you ask, yes, i've sold my Fostex TH900mk2 and Violectric to get the money for the ADI-2 DAC hahah. i hope that when i get the ADI-2 DAC it will be my "end game" source device. which means i can focus more on headphones and DAP for portable use.



No heat issues.
Runs cooler than my other solid state DACs, the H2 and Jot.

It could very well be considered an end game DAC.


----------



## occamsrazor

Tsukuyomi said:


> And for my last question before i hit the "order" button on my local audio shops website for the ADI-2 DAC
> how is heat? i've owned a Violectric HPA200 before and there was almost 0 heat issues with mine the only time it ever got "warm" was when i was too tired and forgot to turn it off and left it on for 24hrs.
> also how useful is the remote controls distance? do you guys use it much at all? im assuming most of you use it as a desktop solution. also have you had any issues with drivers when connecting to a pc via USB? or should i just connect via optical?
> 
> and before you ask, yes, i've sold my Fostex TH900mk2 and Violectric to get the money for the ADI-2 DAC hahah. i hope that when i get the ADI-2 DAC it will be my "end game" source device. which means i can focus more on headphones and DAP for portable use.



Mine never even gets vaguely warm.
For remote, I use a Logitech Harmony remote instead, but that’s because I also have it already for controlling movie players like Plex


----------



## Tsukuyomi

tekkster said:


> No heat issues.
> Runs cooler than my other solid state DACs, the H2 and Jot.
> 
> It could very well be considered an end game DAC.


good to know, for me this will be my end game source. Only have headphones and DAPs left to focus on


----------



## tekkster

I find it interesting that despite a continuous search for better and better gear, the RME ADI-2 remains my primary driver, all day, every day.  I have the MojoPoly and R6 that I use on the road.  The H2, while it sits on my desk, is used primarily for reference testing, and sometimes when deciding to work in other parts of the house (I'm a consultant who works from home). I do think that the H2 brings up subtle sounds better, improving detail retrieval and adds that extra bit of emotion to some instruments (like cymbal taps).  And yet, the ADI-2 brings so much flexibility to the table, the sheer control seems infinite, and makes every headphone find its ideal sound profile.  I generally don't pair my current two best headphones with the ADI-2 DAC (though they sound great with this versatile unit).  The KSE1200 is most often paired with the MojoPoly and Utopia with the H2, while pairing the venerable HD800 (not the S) with the ADI-2 (with the iFi iCan Pro in between).  I also use the NightHawk/Nightowl/Cascade/PM-3/tr80/250/Meze99c with the ADI-2.  This chain may not bring out all the most subtle details, but it still has so much more detail than everything else (except the H2 + Utopia or KSE1200), that overall, it's extremely satisfying in a multitude of ways without feeling like there's any real sacrifice in detail retrieval. If I'm ever lucky enough to save, will probably pick up an electrostat and an estat amp, but pretty sure it will be hooked up to the ADI-2 DAC.

Really remarkable to me, just thinking about it, to find myself reaching for the ADI-2 based setup day in and day out.  Never getting sick of it, never feeling like it's missing anything, and always satisfied with the many sound profiles I've saved to the presets.

Just a remarkable device all around.

Feel pretty lucky to have it.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

reading everyone's posts in this threat is getting me super excited for when i get my RME ADI-2 DAC   
I seriously can't wait.


----------



## GrussGott

tekkster said:


> I do think that the H2 brings up subtle sounds better, improving detail retrieval and adds that extra bit of emotion to some instruments (like cymbal taps).  And yet, the ADI-2 brings so much flexibility to the table, the sheer control seems infinite, and makes every headphone find its ideal sound profile.



I'd love to hear your overall thoughts on the H2 vs ADI-2; specifically, sure via the Utopia an H2 would bring out more detail, but you mentioned other non-summit-fi headphones, and I'd be curious to hear your exanded thoughts there (and as DAC only).  Obviously the H2 is compelling as a transportable option that can also be a great desktop ...

... but I just can't get myself to buy the H2 because I had real quality issues with the mojo (battery issues, piercing charge whine, cell phone interference, USB jacks soldered right to board so terrified they'll break off, etc) ... then looking at the H2 it looks like a larger mojo with a solid case, but still the same quality/build issues (e.g., you can see the lights between the seam in the halves, usb ports look unsecured to the chassis, etc).  Granted I could easily get over that stuff if it was $1200, not the $2600 MSRP - for that I expect damn near perfection.  

In any event, if the ADI-2 brings most of the same flexibility (usable as a DAC/amp, small enough to move around the house just have to plug in, great desktop with other amps), most of the sound quality, and for less than half price ... well that's more compelling.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

GrussGott said:


> I'd love to hear your overall thoughts on the H2 vs ADI-2; specifically, sure via the Utopia an H2 would bring out more detail, but you mentioned other non-summit-fi headphones, and I'd be curious to hear your exanded thoughts there (and as DAC only).  Obviously the H2 is compelling as a transportable option that can also be a great desktop ...
> 
> ... but I just can't get myself to buy the H2 because I had real quality issues with the mojo (battery issues, piercing charge whine, cell phone interference, USB jacks soldered right to board so terrified they'll break off, etc) ... then looking at the H2 it looks like a larger mojo with a solid case, but still the same quality/build issues (e.g., you can see the lights between the seam in the halves, usb ports look unsecured to the chassis, etc).  Granted I could easily get over that stuff if it was $1200, not the $2600 MSRP - for that I expect damn near perfection.
> 
> In any event, if the ADI-2 brings most of the same flexibility (usable as a DAC/amp, small enough to move around the house just have to plug in, great desktop with other amps), most of the sound quality, and for less than half price ... well that's more compelling.


I've also considered Chord products, but after hearing what some people here and some store owners have said, im staying well away from Chord products as their quality control seems to be lacking. For the premium you're paying for a device of theirs i dont think its worth it at all. I think they think of themselves as the apple of the audio world. selling over priced products with not as good build quality as other brands.


----------



## tekkster (Nov 7, 2018)

GrussGott said:


> I'd love to hear your overall thoughts on the H2 vs ADI-2; specifically, sure via the Utopia an H2 would bring out more detail, but you mentioned other non-summit-fi headphones, and I'd be curious to hear your exanded thoughts there (and as DAC only).  Obviously the H2 is compelling as a transportable option that can also be a great desktop ...
> 
> ... but I just can't get myself to buy the H2 because I had real quality issues with the mojo (battery issues, piercing charge whine, cell phone interference, USB jacks soldered right to board so terrified they'll break off, etc) ... then looking at the H2 it looks like a larger mojo with a solid case, but still the same quality/build issues (e.g., you can see the lights between the seam in the halves, usb ports look unsecured to the chassis, etc).  Granted I could easily get over that stuff if it was $1200, not the $2600 MSRP - for that I expect damn near perfection.
> 
> In any event, if the ADI-2 brings most of the same flexibility (usable as a DAC/amp, small enough to move around the house just have to plug in, great desktop with other amps), most of the sound quality, and for less than half price ... well that's more compelling.




I think with Chord products, the issues are really in the minority.  Most of the people I know on head-fi have no issues with Chord products (the one exception being Poly, which was problematic for me on a number of fronts, but really wasn't made by Chord, but rather, outsourced).  The USB port soddered on the motherboard is pretty strong.  I've cause that kind of damage with other devices, but never with the H2.  It's on there pretty solidly.  Really, I've never had any problems with any Chord products (again, except the Poly, which was just such a PitA to get working right).

I both love and don't love the H2.  When it's paired with very fast headphones, like the Utopia and KSE1200, the sound can be truly stunning at times.  But it can also be glaring and wince worthy for some songs too.  It's a bit hit or miss, depending on the file I play.
 - Most of the time, it's very good
 - Some of the time, it's stunning and better than anything I've ever heard.
 - Some fo the time, the treble glare makes me wince

The H2, like most DACs, doesn't have any way to really adjust the sound profile.  There's the roll-off buttons, but they don't make a dramatic enough difference.  The crossfeed works well.

When I talk about detail retrieval, it's really a small difference.  If I were to rank the ADI-2 vs. the H2 vs. straight from my smart phone or laptop, I would say:
 - H2 - 93/100
 - ADI-2 - 90/100
 - iFi DSD BL - 82/100
 - Jotunheim - 79/100  (gen 1)
 - MacBook Pro - 65/100
 - iPhone 8 - 65/100

In other words, what really sets the H2 apart is its ability to take the quieter sounds (like light cymbal taps, or subtler musical components in a song) and bring them up.  In addition, the H2 doesn't blend.  No matter how many instruments are playing at the same time, the H2 keeps every sound very distinct.

The ADI-2 does that too, just not quite as much.

Jazz ensembles, and classical orchestral pieces, and off kilter stuff like Keiko Matsui, some movie sound track stuff by Marc Mancina, Thomas Newman, Hans Zimmerman, etc., have so many instruments, that a few get a little lost.  Both the ADI-2 and H2 do an incredible job, but the H2 edges the ADI-2 out just a wee bit.  Not enough for me to care that much, but noticeably.

Like Santana's Corazon Espinado, there's a ratchet percussion, there's also a couple of other percussion instruments, and it's percussion goes almost the entire song.  In the beginning, there's only 3 instruments, the shaker being a subtle one of the three.  As the song progresses, more instruments come into play, and then the main instrument, the guitar comes in and dominates.  With my MacBook Pro and iPhone, the shaker all but disappears.  I can hear it if I concentrate on it, but if I'm just relaxing and listening to the music, it fades into the background, getting blended.  With the H2, that percussion stays prominent enough throughout the song and well separated.

Or Keiko Matsui's Water Fairy, which has a very subtle almost static like tap that constantly plays, moving from the left to right, and it's incredibly subtle, very hard to hear.  Both the ADI-2 and H2 do a great job of keeping that extremely subtle, low low sound moving back and forth (and sometimes settling in the middle).  It's an 8/4 rhythm (or 4/4 at double time).  It's such a quiet sound that it disappears as other instruments start dominating.  With the ADI-2, despite always being there, it gets very quiet and harder to hear.  Still amazing that you can hear it at all!  but the H2 brings it up just that much more.  That same detail retrieval might, maybe, be why I don't always love the sound.  For some music, bring every instrument into such sharp focus makes the song less pleasant to listen to.

It's hard to really put into words since on the detail retrieval front, the ADI-2 is so much closer to the H2 than anything else is to the the ADI-2.

at the end of the day, the ADI-2 is so good at detail retrieval compared to most DACs that I sometimes use it as reference when really trying to listen carefully to music, but it doesn't quite reach the sheer detail retrieval of the H2.

---

I have one small gripe with the ADI-2, and that's soundstage.  it's rather narrow (so is the H2, btw).  but the iFi iCan Pro fixes that easily.  For classical orchestral music, my chain is the adi-2 -> ifi iCan pro -> HD800.  There's nothing in my gear lineup that widens the soundstage as much as this chain.

---

I should probably note here that I do have one problem that a lot of real audiophiles don't have....  I love EVERYTHING.  I enjoy the el cheapo M50X and TR80/250 in certain genres as much as I love the Focal Utopia, HD800, and KSE1200 for other genres.  Heck, I'm listening to the Meze 99c on the ADI-2 right now, because it's such a fun sound.

I should also probably note that my ears aren't the best.  My listening range is pretty good on the low end, rolls off pretty fast on the high end.  I can hear 20Hz just fine.  But at around 15kHz, I can't hear anything.  Luckily, there aren't many songs where I need to hear about 12 or 13kHz, so it's not a problem for me yet.

So my opinions should be taken with a huge grain of salt, hahaha.

---

The ADI-2 allows me to shape sound so much that I can find the perfect sound profile (for me) with any and every headphone.  Nothing else comes close to the clean sounding flexible sound shaping ability of the ADI-2.  And the analyzer is just as amazing.  I play songs and stare at the equalizer tons, getting a much better feel for frequencies of each instrument of each song.  That analyzer is just an incredible tool for me.

Anyway, while other devices, like the iDSD BL and the Schiit Jot are now tucked away in other parts of the house and rarely used, the ADI-2 will likely remain a critical component of my daily listening gear.  It provides visual information, allows endless customization, has an incredibly low noise floor for IEMs, and has power boosting for high ohm headphones like my much loved T1.

To me, the ADI-2 is just that good.


----------



## tekkster

One other problem I have with a lot of gear that the ADI-2 and H2 does well.

Some instruments aren't easily recognizable on some songs.  Like light cymbal staccato hits, snare drum rim taps, etc.  For these also, just like with detail retrieval.  The ADI-2 does a much better job than many other DACs I have.  But the H2 does edge out the ADI-2 just a wee bit.  

Again, that's similar in my subjective scoring.
- H2 - 93/100
- ADI-2 - 90/100
- iFi DSD BL - 78/100
- Jotunheim - 76/100 (gen 1)
- MacBook Pro - 63/100
- iPhone 8 - 60/100


----------



## GrussGott

tekkster said:


> I think with Chord products ...



My lord, this is probably the greatest reply i've ever gotten on any forum - gold standard stuff here, @tekkster , thank you so much for such a thorough, thoughtful, valuable response!


----------



## alphanumerix1

tekkster said:


> One other problem I have with a lot of gear that the ADI-2 and H2 does well.
> 
> Some instruments aren't easily recognizable on some songs.  Like light cymbal staccato hits, snare drum rim taps, etc.  For these also, just like with detail retrieval.  The ADI-2 does a much better job than many other DACs I have.  But the H2 does edge out the ADI-2 just a wee bit.
> 
> ...



Considering the price gap between the H2 and adi2 thats quite good.

What headphones did you use to come to that conclusion above?


----------



## tekkster

alphanumerix1 said:


> Considering the price gap between the H2 and adi2 thats quite good.
> 
> What headphones did you use to come to that conclusion above?


  Hd800, utopia, kse1200, t1, and cascade.  Thos are my fastest headphones.
  Hoping to one day add stax sr009s...one day...maybe...maybe i’ll win the lottery too....


----------



## tekkster (Nov 8, 2018)

I'm actually hoping that in 2020, RME uses all the same sound shaping features + visualization features and base it on the newer Verita AK4497EQ chip.  I probably wouldn't notice a big difference, if at all.  Single chip would be fine for me, of course, as dual chip usages like in the Gustard A20H is not really a big deal for me.  What impresses me most about RME is their ability to get the most out of a chip, and really leverage all of its capabilities.  I suspect (without knowing) that other DAC manufacturers focus on getting a singular sound from a DAC chip and don't focus as much on finer capabilities of the DAC chip to get the most out of it, and also adding that wonderful pre-DAC DSP processor. 

For example, the DAC I mentioned about, the Gustard A20H, uses two AK4497EQ chips, and yet it doesn't have many EQ features or a visualizer, doesn't have preset saving ability. 

As much as I love the RME ADI-2 DAC and reach for it every day despite having more expensive gear, I'm constantly looking for how my experience might change with whatever is on the horizon....It's probably some kind of mild mental disorder.

One last note:  I feel pretty lucky to have discovered the ADI-2.  And it's thanks to head-fi, and this thread in particular.  If not for everyone here, I never would have bought it.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

tekkster said:


> I'm actually hoping that in 2020, RME uses all the same sound shaping features + visualization features and base it on the newer Verita AK4497EQ chip.  I probably wouldn't notice a big difference, if at all.  Single chip would be fine for me, of course, as dual chip usages like in the Gustard A20H is not really a big deal for me.  What impresses me most about RME is their ability to get the most out of a chip, and really leverage all of its capabilities.  I suspect (without knowing) that other DAC manufacturers focus on getting a singular sound from a DAC chip and don't focus as much on finer capabilities of the DAC chip to get the most out of it, and also adding that wonderful pre-DAC DSP processor.
> 
> For example, the DAC I mentioned about, the Gustard A20H, uses two AK4497EQ chips, and yet it doesn't have many EQ features or a visualizer, doesn't have preset saving ability.
> 
> ...


I want RME to use USB-C hahaha, actually i want everyone to make USB-C standard. its kinda ridiculous now a days that it isnt standard. i can only see benefits when it comes to data transfer, usability and build quality and durability.


----------



## oqvist

Hade my RME ADI-2 for some days. I read here that there is some kind of hifi mode where you disable all processing or something after some firmware patch. But I can´t find any info how to activate it from downloading manual from homepage or reading the readmes? 
As for the DAC I can´t tell the difference from my Audio GD Reference 9. It´s a good sign. I could fit what 6-8 ADI-2s in that beast with it´s triple R-cores


----------



## Phoniac

If you have a ADI-2 DAC then the 'HiFi mode' is the whole unit. A special setting for home use is only available on the ADI-2 Pro, which lets it work like the DAC, so to say.


----------



## AlanU

knopi said:


> Brooklyn as DAC is great. As dac/preamp it is also very very fine still high level. But if someone will borrow really quality reference preamp than wow, more aim on core more denser cleaner more dynamic pin point stage calm flow adulter.
> And last one as headphone amp it is the real one weakness in my eyes but I think that problem have most of the dac/amps and probably including RME or maybe headphones are just bad suck .



I'm currently not looking for a headphone amp but if you own a Mytek Brooklyn I'd suggest ditching the IEC cord and purchasing an Sbooster or go DC battery.  

I recently just bought a Mytek Liberty for the purpose of using an inexpensive solid state dac with my Simaudio amp stereo setup in my home. I was extremely impressed modifying a Lithium 10,000 maH 12V battery pack to feed power to the DAC. The change in sound quality was dramatic!!  

I will say the Brooklyn Dac + is very impressive in refined sound. I just recently auditioned an Aurus Audio HA2 SE feeding it with a Liberty dac and it was pure bliss. This was with using the IEC cord too so that wasn't even maximizing SQ. 

At the end of the day your ears get accustomed to a sound signature so if your happy that's all that matters. I wish the RME was in stock  it's sold out locally.


----------



## Captain Koons

How is the sound quality of the RME compared to the LP RS-06? I've narrowed my search down to these 2, with the RME ticking the right boxes on features but I've read comments about the RME sound 'lacking' in something. I don't need the amp, I'll be feeding my tube amps so that's not a problem. At roughly the same price, is the RS06 sound THAT much better to overlook the features of the RME?


----------



## Dave S (Nov 14, 2018)

Captain Koons said:


> How is the sound quality of the RME compared to the LP RS-06? I've narrowed my search down to these 2, with the RME ticking the right boxes on features but I've read comments about the RME sound 'lacking' in something. I don't need the amp, I'll be feeding my tube amps so that's not a problem. At roughly the same price, is the RS06 sound THAT much better to overlook the features of the RME?



Can't compare with the LP as I do not own one but the RME ADI-2 DAC has replaced my Hugo 2 and Gungnir Multibit.

The sound is neutral and very precise, the ADI-2 does not add anything or take anything away, this is exactly what I was looking for in a DAC.

This is my current system:-

Simaudio Moon 260D CD Transport - RME ADI-2 DAC - Naim Nait XS 2 - AE Reference 1 - Sennheiser HD800


----------



## Anaz

Dave S said:


> Can't compare with the LP as I do not own one but the RME ADI-2 DAC has replaced my Hugo 2 and Gungnir Multibit.
> 
> The sound is neutral and very precise, the ADI-2 does not add anything or take anything away, this is exactly what I was looking for in a DAC.
> 
> ...



How would you compare the ADI-2 to the Hugo 2 when both are used as a DACs. I like the ADI-2 for being accurate and detailed but I also like the sonic signature of a Mojo (my typical useage is connected via Toslink and used as a DAC) and was thinking of getting a Qutest or Hugo 2.

I think the Mojo is more grainy / conveys less detail than the ADI-2. However, to my ears, the Mojo increases treble, which for me works well with a Focal Clear.


----------



## Dave S (Nov 14, 2018)

Anaz said:


> How would you compare the ADI-2 to the Hugo 2 when both are used as a DACs. I like the ADI-2 for being accurate and detailed but I also like the sonic signature of a Mojo (my typical useage is connected via Toslink and used as a DAC) and was thinking of getting a Qutest or Hugo 2.
> 
> I think the Mojo is more grainy / conveys less detail than the ADI-2. However, to my ears, the Mojo increases treble, which for me works well with a Focal Clear.



They are very close, but I would say that the mid range is more detailed in the ADI-2 with the treble in the Hugo 2 being a little more airy, but I feel this is a little unnatural and synthetic...

The problem with the ADI-2 is it is not plug and play, it took some time to get it to play nice with my Naim amp, the factory defaults are very good but with some tweaking it is now exceptional!

I listen mainly through speakers...


----------



## Anaz

Dave S said:


> They are very close, but I would say that the mid range is more detailed in the ADI-2 and the treble in the Hugo 2 being a little more airy, but I feel this is a little unnatural and synthetic...
> 
> The problem with the ADI-2 is it is not plug and play, it took some time to get it to play nice with my Naim amp, the factory defaults are very good but with some tweaking it is now exceptional!



Thank you for the feedback. What settings have you changed with your ADI-2? the only setting I’ve stayed with as standard is the slow filter (plus RME’s posted EQ settings when listening to 44.1 or 48 kHz).


----------



## Dave S (Nov 14, 2018)

Anaz said:


> Thank you for the feedback. What settings have you changed with your ADI-2? the only setting I’ve stayed with as standard is the slow filter (plus RME’s posted EQ settings when listening to 44.1 or 48 kHz).



As I am feeding the CD input of my amp and not headphones the main change was from +7dbu 0.0 to +13dbu -6.0, with +7dbu 0.0 I had issues with sound stage and minor distortions, with +13dbu -6.0 the sound opened up and there was zero issues with the sound. I need to ask RME about this, very strange!

I am still playing with the filters so will report back.

What are the RME EQ settings?


----------



## Dave S

Double Post


----------



## Dave S (Nov 14, 2018)

Another thing to consider is price, the Hugo 2 in the UK is £1799, I paid £805 for the ADI-2!


----------



## Anaz (Nov 14, 2018)

Dave S said:


> As I am feeding the CD input of my amp and not headphones the main change was from +7dbu 0.0 to +13dbu -6.0, with +7dbu 0.0 I had issues with sound stage and minor distortions, with +13dbu -6.0 the sound opened up and there was zero issues with the sound. I need to ask RME about this, very strange!
> 
> I am still playing with the filters so will report back.
> 
> What are the RME EQ settings?



For EQ settings, to compensate for roll-off, for the slow and NOS filters see this thread on the RME forums (scroll down for the 48 kHz EQ settings).  With regard to the line out level, it could be your amp input needed a higher voltage (see this page for calculating voltage from dBu). ...Also, somewhere in the manual I think it says that your configuration would have a slightly better SNR than the default +7dBu and 0 volume - however, I don't think the difference would be noticeable.


----------



## Anaz

Dave S said:


> Another thing to consider is price, the Hugo 2 in the UK is £1799, I paid £805 for the ADI-2!



LOL, there's that too!!!


----------



## AlanU (Nov 14, 2018)

Is it always preferential to use "filters". Many of my purist audiofile stereo friends would never admit to use filters.

Note decay and effortless sound is still dependent on the power supply of the unit. Also the electronics of course............

I'd like to audition an RME soon to analyze if sweet mids exists. I dislike lean sounding solid state dacs.


----------



## tekkster

AlanU said:


> Is it always preferential to use "filters". Many of my purist audiofile stereo friends would never admit to use filters.
> 
> Note decay and effortless sound is still dependent on the power supply of the unit. Also the electronics of course............
> 
> I'd like to audition an RME soon to analyze if sweet mids exists. I dislike lean sounding solid state dacs.




While I personally enjoy female vocals on the ADI-2 (I'm listening to Diana Krall as I write this), prominent along the mid frequency range, to me, how "sweet" "musical" she sounds depends much more on the headphone than the DAC.  She doesn't sound that different to me between the ADI-2, H2, iDSD BL, or the Jot to me.  The different DACs really sound different to me around detail retrieval, width of the sound stage, timber of woodwind instruments, realism of the percussion vibrations.  I'm not saying that there's no difference for vocals, but the differences are much less significant to me.  Whereas with headphones, the differences in vocals is really dramatic.  In fact, while not really accurate, I get the sense that sometimes, the differences in timber of woodwind, or realism of percussion vibrations aren't quite as dramatic a difference when comparing different high end headphones, but can be more dramatically different between DACs and amps.  

I'm probably wrong here, but when changing out different parts of the chain, vocal differences and frequency emphasis curves are really dramatic to me between headphones, and conversely, while timber/vibration/soundstage/detail/"realism", while also noticeably different between headphones, seem more significantly affected by changing the DACs and amps around.

I love the ADI-2, and believe vocals are amazing from the ADI-2 with the right headphones, I have read a lot of reviews in Japanese where folks say that the ADI-2 sounds too analytical and flat.  I don't think so, but then again, I haven't had as much exposure to different DACs and amps as some of these folks.


----------



## tekkster

Dave S said:


> They are very close, but I would say that the mid range is more detailed in the ADI-2 with the treble in the Hugo 2 being a little more airy, but I feel this is a little unnatural and synthetic...
> 
> The problem with the ADI-2 is it is not plug and play, it took some time to get it to play nice with my Naim amp, the factory defaults are very good but with some tweaking it is now exceptional!
> 
> I listen mainly through speakers...



Interesting.  

I have the H2, Mojo, and ADI-2, and while I don't necessarily agree with you, I can definitely see your point.


----------



## oqvist

There really isnt much between the rme adi-2 and the audio-gd reference 9 despite wildly different design.

Its more about the features. One thing frustrate me. It appears it doesnt send signal from the XLR and analogue outputs att the same time? I want to get a signal to my bass shaker.


----------



## AlanU

tekkster said:


> While I personally enjoy female vocals on the ADI-2 (I'm listening to Diana Krall as I write this), prominent along the mid frequency range, to me, how "sweet" "musical" she sounds depends much more on the headphone than the DAC.  She doesn't sound that different to me between the ADI-2, H2, iDSD BL, or the Jot to me.  The different DACs really sound different to me around detail retrieval, width of the sound stage, timber of woodwind instruments, realism of the percussion vibrations.  I'm not saying that there's no difference for vocals, but the differences are much less significant to me.  Whereas with headphones, the differences in vocals is really dramatic.  In fact, while not really accurate, I get the sense that sometimes, the differences in timber of woodwind, or realism of percussion vibrations aren't quite as dramatic a difference when comparing different high end headphones, but can be more dramatically different between DACs and amps.
> 
> I'm probably wrong here, but when changing out different parts of the chain, vocal differences and frequency emphasis curves are really dramatic to me between headphones, and conversely, while timber/vibration/soundstage/detail/"realism", while also noticeably different between headphones, seem more significantly affected by changing the DACs and amps around.
> 
> I love the ADI-2, and believe vocals are amazing from the ADI-2 with the right headphones, I have read a lot of reviews in Japanese where folks say that the ADI-2 sounds too analytical and flat.  I don't think so, but then again, I haven't had as much exposure to different DACs and amps as some of these folks.




This is the beauty of the headphone world. Slap on a different pair of headphones and you can change the listening experience. I'm not as hardcore as some here but  putting on a pair of my HD800 and then swapping them over to my Hifiman HE560 is a nice change. I really do like the affordable Hifiman Ananda sound signature as it's more effortless in music translation than the HE560 I own.

I was just going over some music. Going through Tidal I was listening to an album called Tender heart by Peter Kater and Michael Brant (Piano / Flute Meditations). Listening to solid state I'm always seeking musical engagement. My tube dac that consists of a separate unit to power the tube stage is unreal in holographic sound. The difference between my solid state setup vs Tube is drastic in how you experience the music. 

Reading about how many use equalizers and filters seems like a method of manipulating the sound you seek to a degree. Almost like how I roll tubes to get the sound signature I want for different types of music. However I still cannot see how filters can make the imaging totally different. So far every solid state dac I've tested or owned does not provide the 3d imaging of rushing water at my feet on my hifi stereo. 

More testing for me...... I do want to audition this German DAC.


----------



## Dave S (Nov 15, 2018)

Anaz said:


> LOL, there's that too!!!



IMHO some potential Hugo 2 buyers would be better advised to have a look at the ADI-2 and spend the remainder on new Headphones were they would probably find the biggest difference.


----------



## Dave S

tekkster said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I have the H2, Mojo, and ADI-2, and while I don't necessarily agree with you, I can definitely see your point.



My main listening preference is speakers rather then headphones, this may have an influence on my findings.  Are you using USB input with your DAC's?

I need to play that Santana song, love that album!


----------



## Dave S

What EQ curves are you guys using with your HD800?

I am going to test the inbuilt amp against my rHead amp via XLR next.  I also need to test USB and Toslink vs Coax that I have been using to date.  I found the Hugo 2 poor with USB buy very good with Coax & Optical...


----------



## oqvist

No eq at all with my hd800s and THX AAA 789. Nothing to fix


----------



## Phoniac

I find the HD800S bass shy, and too strong in upper mids. My settings:

Band 1 G +8 dB, F 87 Hz, Q 0.6. Band 2 G -3 dB, F 300 Hz,  Q 1.0. Band 4 G -4 dB F 4.0 kHz, Q 2.0.

YMMV.


----------



## tekkster

Dave S said:


> My main listening preference is speakers rather then headphones, this may have an influence on my findings.  Are you using USB input with your DAC's?
> 
> I need to play that Santana song, love that album!



I switch between optical and usb inputs for most DACs, and haven't really settled on either as my favorite.  Right now though, the chain is USB into the ADI-2


----------



## tekkster

Dave S said:


> What EQ curves are you guys using with your HD800?
> 
> I am going to test the inbuilt amp against my rHead amp via XLR next.  I also need to test USB and Toslink vs Coax that I have been using to date.  I found the Hugo 2 poor with USB buy very good with Coax & Optical...



- HD800, no EQ on the ADI-2, but have bumped bass on the iCan Pro afterwards.
- Utopia, I roll off the treble from around 13kHz down a few db to kill the bite on some songs, and up the bass just a wee bit, up to roughly 100Hz.
- T1, no change generally, up the mids by about 2db from 200Hz to 1.2kHz for some songs.
- Cascade, I drop the bass a tidbit, maybe 1db'ish, and up the mids by 2db from about 200Hz to roughly 1.2kHz.
- NightHawk and NightOwl, I up treble a bit from around 6kHz and up, maybe 3db'ish.
- PM3, no change
- Meze 99c, I drop the bass and up the treble
- M70x, treble roll off from about 10kHz 
- M50x...no change.  Actually, the M50x isn't really part of my rotation.
- KSE1200, no change
- Thermos Veclos, no change


----------



## Dave S (Nov 15, 2018)

I have done some listening tests to decide what filter works best in my system and have decided on the "Short Delay Slow" with no EQ.

A good reference on digital filters for you:-

https://web.archive.org/web/20180523223516/http://www.ayre.com/pdf/Ayre_MP_White_Paper.pdf


----------



## tekkster

Dave S said:


> IMHO some potential Hugo 2 buyers would be better advised to have a look at the ADI-2 and spend the remainder on new Headphones were they would probably find the biggest difference.



That may be true, but you would have to pry the H2 from my cold dead hands.  While there are many songs in which I find the ADI-2 to be the best fit, the H2 sounds very good and some songs, not so good, there are some songs where it sounds so damn "right" and beyond my expectations that I just stare at the H2 in shock, not comprehending how such a little device can deliver such incredible music to my ears.  Doesn't happen all the time, for sure, but when it does, I can do nothing else but listen, stunned and speechless.  There are some classical orchestral pieces (Georg Mozart for one, WA Mozart's father, Schumann for another, and some Vivaldi, a couple of Dave Brubeck songs, and some older jazz, like Coltrane/Gillespie/Flanagan/Ellington/Parker/Monk/Martino, and some movie soundtrack folks like Zimmerman/Mancina/Newman).

I have been continuously impressed with the ADI-2 and it is my daily driver loving the sound.  

But while the ADI-2 is consistently extremely good, and handles everything well, and its versatility is mind bogglingly incredible, it has never stunned me.

Who am I kidding, you'd have to pry BOTH the H2 and ADI-2 from my cold dead hands (^-^)


----------



## Anaz

tekkster said:


> I switch between optical and usb inputs for most DACs, and haven't really settled on either as my favorite.  Right now though, the chain is USB into the ADI-2



The USB implementation on the ADI-2 measures _extremely_ well so there shouldn’t be any difference between the inputs. 

With regard to the H2 and Mojo, the USB input doesn’t have galvanic isolation (I believe this is due to the detrimental effect on power from portable devices) and so noise on the USB line will color the audio output.


----------



## Anaz

tekkster said:


> That may be true, but you would have to pry the H2 from my cold dead hands.  While there are many songs in which I find the ADI-2 to be the best fit, the H2 sounds very good and some songs, not so good, there are some songs where it sounds so damn "right" and beyond my expectations that I just stare at the H2 in shock, not comprehending how such a little device can deliver such incredible music to my ears.  Doesn't happen all the time, for sure, but when it does, I can do nothing else but listen, stunned and speechless.  There are some classical orchestral pieces (Georg Mozart for one, WA Mozart's father, Schumann for another, and some Vivaldi, a couple of Dave Brubeck songs, and some older jazz, like Coltrane/Gillespie/Flanagan/Ellington/Parker/Monk/Martino, and some movie soundtrack folks like Zimmerman/Mancina/Newman).
> 
> I have been continuously impressed with the ADI-2 and it is my daily driver loving the sound.
> 
> ...



What headphones are using with H2? I’ve found that Chord products have excellent synergy with Focal headphones.


----------



## tekkster

Anaz said:


> What headphones are using with H2? I’ve found that Chord products have excellent synergy with Focal headphones.



Yep.  Focal Utopia primarily.  T1, Cascade, NO/NH on occasion.  KSE1200 when bringing along on business travel for hotel use.  Never the HD800, which is a bad match.  Also not really happy with Meze 99c or tr80/250 as a match.


----------



## Dave S

Anaz said:


> What headphones are using with H2? I’ve found that Chord products have excellent synergy with Focal headphones.



Night Hawks work well, I had them before my HD800's


----------



## Dave S (Nov 16, 2018)

Anaz said:


> The USB implementation on the ADI-2 measures _extremely_ well so there shouldn’t be any difference between the inputs.
> 
> With regard to the H2 and Mojo, the USB input doesn’t have galvanic isolation (I believe this is due to the detrimental effect on power from portable devices) and so noise on the USB line will color the audio output.



H2 was bad using USB, I have yet to test the ADI...


----------



## Dave S (Nov 19, 2018)

I have spent some more time with the ADI-2, these are my settings for 44.1 Redbook from my CD transport into my Naim integrated amp:-

DA Filter: SD Slow
Ref Level: +7 dBu
Vol: 0.0 dB
Auto Ref Level: Off

** Note these settings are for listening via passive loudspeakers not headphones **

Next I will see how the DAC works with HQPlayer's upsampled PCM & DSD (Direct Mode) via USB.


----------



## TheDuke990 (Nov 17, 2018)

Does the adi 2 have enough power to drive difficult headphones like HE-5LE, etc properly or is it better to go for the adi pro ? Thanks.


----------



## tekkster

TheDuke990 said:


> Does the adi 2 have enough power to drive difficult headphones like HE-5LE, etc properly or is it better to go for the adi pro ? Thanks.



I believe the amp and dac portion of the Pro is the same as the the ADI-2.  Power should be about the same.

Both the ADI-2 DAC and ADI-2 Pro have high power mode for 6.3mm plugs.  It has an ultra-quiet mode for 3.5mm plugs as well.  So, these units have enough power to drive demanding headphones and sensitive ones.

While I don't have the HE-5LE, I do have the Beyer T1, a 600 ohm headphone.  I generally listen to the T1 at -45dBr.  At -35dBr it is very loud.  At -29dBr it is too loud.  At -21.5dBr, it is painful.  And there is plenty more power left.  
in other words, in High power mode, if you crank the volume up any further, you will damage your headphones.

In fact, it gets so loud that whenever you plug a headphone into the 6.3mm jack while the device is in high power mode, a warning screen comes on and won't play until you hit the "1' dial button.  Even then, it will start low and work up to the volume set, just in case you have the wrong headphones plugged in.

The difference between them, for the most part, is that the Pro is used for both recording and listening, so it includes ADC chip and DAC chip (and associated software features for both), but the ADI-2 DAC is designed for listening only, so has the DAC chip but doesn't have the recording ADC chip or associated software.

As nice as the ADI-2 Pro is for audio recording, unless you're buying this gear for a recording studio, you don't need the Pro.  

---

Going off on a tangent, on the recording front, the ADI-2 Pro uses a great ADC chip, the AK5572.  

But for recording I care a LOT MORE about the pre-amps and limiters than the ADC chip, because that's where distortion and clipping occurs.  So I wouldn't use the RME ADI-2 Pro for that even if I had it.  I also care about field usage, both gain and trim control, PFL function on multi-channel inputs, multiple outs, hdmi control, track meta data editing on the fly, poly-wav format, saving to SD Card + audio interface at the same time, ability to run off of a Hirose connector power supply.  A lot of pros care about time sync, but that's not an issues for me.  So, if you care both about recording, I would get something like the Sound Devices 633 for two channel recording, or if you need more than two channels, the MixPre 6T or 10T for recording.  Sound Devices uses analog limiters.  I have the Sound Devices 10T (analog limiters) as well as the Zoom F8 and F8n (the latter two of which use digital limiters, which are generally considered lower quality than analog limiters, but realistically, work just fine for me).  I also use the H6 for convenience, but that has no limiters, so you get distortion pretty easily.


----------



## Dogmatrix (Nov 17, 2018)

tekkster said:


> I believe the amp and dac portion of the Pro is the same as the the ADI-2.  Power should be about the same.



Pro has 2x amp section of DAC so effectively double power for balanced output


----------



## tekkster

Dogmatrix said:


> Pro has 2x amp section of DAC so effectively double power for balanced output



Oh?  Hmm, okay, looking it up again, i missed that.  The Pro has two 6.3mm jacks that are used as left/right, for balanced.  Each being mono, effectively doubling power.

Given that the adi-2 dac in high power mode is painful at -21.5dBr on 600 ohm headphones, and any higher would risk damaging most high ohm headphones, power is not an issue, but running separate power to the left and right driver i guess provides more finesse and control.  Guess the Pro could be better in that sense too.

Wouldn’t subjectively know unless i tried it.  Still, if it’s just power, adi-2 dac with high power mode has more than enough to drive the hardest headphones from my point of view.


----------



## Phoniac

It might be the right time to remind everyone on the fact that doubling the volume needs 10 x (ten times) the power. The ADI-2 Pro seems to raise the output power in balanced mode a bit, but fails to give even double juice. That makes no noticable difference! And might be the reason RME advertises the balanced operation not based on power, but as showcase for an unusual technical concept (fully balanced output stage, from 2 x DAC to phones), as explained in great detail in the manual. While typical balanced phones outputs provide double power and 6 dB higher output level, their SNR stays the same. In the ADI-2 Pro the SNR improves by 3 dB.

Whatever, in my opinion a balanced phones output is a totally unnecessary feature.


----------



## tekkster

Phoniac said:


> It might be the right time to remind everyone on the fact that doubling the volume needs 10 x (ten times) the power. The ADI-2 Pro seems to raise the output power in balanced mode a bit, but fails to give even double juice. That makes no noticable difference! And might be the reason RME advertises the balanced operation not based on power, but as showcase for an unusual technical concept (fully balanced output stage, from 2 x DAC to phones), as explained in great detail in the manual. While typical balanced phones outputs provide double power and 6 dB higher output level, their SNR stays the same. In the ADI-2 Pro the SNR improves by 3 dB.
> 
> Whatever, in my opinion a balanced phones output is a totally unnecessary feature.



"remind me"?  Heck, I never knew that and made big assumptions on how that worked, so it's great information for me.  Thanks.

Clearly, there's a lot I need to learn, though honestly, I'm pretty happy with focusing primarily on my subjective experiences. Either way, I'd be interested in comparing the dfferences one of these days.  It's always fun to do A/B testing (or as close as I can get to structured testing.


----------



## Dave S (Nov 21, 2018)

Review just posted over @ Innerfidelity:-

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/rme-adi-2-dacheadphone-amplifier-review


----------



## Dave S (Nov 21, 2018)

TheDuke990 said:


> Does the adi 2 have enough power to drive difficult headphones like HE-5LE, etc properly or is it better to go for the adi pro ? Thanks.



I would only use the inbuilt amp with IEM's, for larger headphones a separate amp really shows what this DAC can do.

I use an Arcam rHead connected via XLR to the ADI-2 for my HD800's...


----------



## TheDuke990

Thanks so far .

The Arcam rHead is better than the built in amp of ADI-2 ? Now I'm a little bit worried about the quality of the RME.


----------



## Dave S

TheDuke990 said:


> Thanks so far .
> 
> The Arcam rHead is better than the built in amp of ADI-2 ? Now I'm a little bit worried about the quality of the RME.



To my ears and with my system the rHead is a little better, you may be happy with the inbuilt amp it is very good!


----------



## project86

I agree with Dave S - the built-in amp does a good job in many aspects (with full size headphones), but there is better sound to be had via a good external amp like rHead or Rupert Neve RNHP etc. For me, it is a soundstage and imaging thing, along with a treble issue on some headphones. IEMs are great though, no problems there at all and very little benefit to using an external amp.

My review of the ADI-2 DAC is HERE if anyone is interested. Quite impressed with it overall.


----------



## VRacer-111

TheDuke990 said:


> Thanks so far .
> 
> The Arcam rHead is better than the built in amp of ADI-2 ? Now I'm a little bit worried about the quality of the RME.



Also depends on if you want neutral or not. The amp is fairly neutral in the RME ADI-2, my preference is mainly warm amps like my modded Gustard H10. The ADI-2 just doesn't work for the Fostex TH-X00 like a warm amp does. It does work very well with a Campfire Audio Cascade though, and the Koss KPH30i sounds REALLY good from it.

I got the ADI-2 DAC more for it's DAC and features, not really to use its amp section. It is specifically for use with my NAD C275BEE stereo amp for my STAX and speaker setup.


----------



## jonathane40

Has anyone connected a Sony ZX-300 to the ADI DAC-2 and used it as a transport? The Sony ZX-300 has no analog output; it only offers digital out through the Sony WMC-NWH10 conversion cable. Thanks!


----------



## ngd3

Thanks to @Dave S I decided to order an ADI-2 DAC and should get it on Monday. I'll download the manual to get a jump on understanding operation, but hoping folks on this thread can share any tips or upgrades to get the most out of it.

My plan is to strictly use it at work through a USB connection to my workstation. IEMs only - Legend X, LCDi4 and A18t. Planning to give Roon a try also


----------



## tekkster

Congratulations @ngd3 !!   I hope you enjoy the ADI-2 DAC.  It'll be great with IEMs for sure.  I don't have the same IEMs you have, but the ones I do have work perfectly on this DAC.


----------



## sodesuka

They're great for IEMs! And if you don't like what you're hearing off the IEM out, try the 'Phones' out one. I find that for the more demanding IEMs, the 'Phones' out (with Auto Ref. on) is better and it's still dead silent on less sensitive cans. Just gotta remember to turn down the volume dial first.


----------



## tekkster

I recently dug up one of my many old pairs of Ety ER4Ps and ER4Ss.  I used to be a fanatical fan of these IEMs, and kept buying more as Ety made stylistic changes over the years.

When Ety changed the sound profile to XS series, and other more bass heavy models, I didn't jump on the bandwagon, though in hindsight, maybe that would have been good.

The reason I stopped using these and they ended up in storage was really because of my interest in better DACs, which made the ETYs sound very thin.

Fast forward to now, and in thinking about IEMs, I started messing around with the ETYs on the ADI-2 DAC and futzing with the filters and EQ.

On NOS or SD Slow, with a relatively flat EQ (just a tiny bump in bass), the original ETY ER4S and ER4P sound pretty stunning, retaining the near super human sound separation, while adding a fuller, richer sound, a nice bit of warmth, and avoiding some of the wince-worthy glare and artificial, synthetic sound that can plague these IEMs with the Hugo 2 or MojoPoly.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Hello everyone,
Do you know if its possible to have two headphones plugged into the DAC at the same time and listen to the same song, so two people could listen together?
one in the 6.35 jack, and one in the IEM 3.5?


----------



## tekkster (Nov 27, 2018)

Tsukuyomi said:


> Hello everyone,
> Do you know if its possible to have two headphones plugged into the DAC at the same time and listen to the same song, so two people could listen together?
> one in the 6.35 jack, and one in the IEM 3.5?



Yeah, you can.  In fact, the ADI-2 DAC plays from all ports at the same time.  So if you use the balanced output to a separate amp, that will also play at the same time.

But, you'd have to use the I/O menu to independently set the -dBr, so that each output port is roughly equalized in dB for the headphone/iem/amp connected to it.  Once you do that, the main volume knob should be able to control volume relatively easily without excessively loud or quiet db from any of the audio drivers (headphone, iem, amp).


----------



## simon740

Hello,

anybody use rme Adi-2 dac with active speakers or power amp? So like a preamp and a dac ...ali in one solution..

regards,
Simon


----------



## NickedWicked

simon740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> anybody use rme Adi-2 dac with active speakers or power amp? So like a preamp and a dac ...ali in one solution..
> 
> ...



I don't have the DAC version but I reckon it's the same, the pre-amp is great. Hell, professionals, dealers and Hi-Fi users even couple the ADI-2 to 10K speakers such as the Dutch&Dutch 8C's and Kii Audio Three as end-game solution.


----------



## project86

I used it with some Adam Audio monitors - nothing ultra high end but the combo sounds very nice.


----------



## simon740

I need something for my Sonodyne SRP 205 active speakers.
In store where I buy this speakers, the dealer has SRP 205 and Resolution Audio Cantata 2.0.
Amazing sound... SRP 205 and Cantata 2.0 was a 10.000€ combo. And this was soo good like "passive system" in other room for about 26.000€. 
But cantata is 6000€ 

I think this adi-2 dac will be goog match for SRP 205


regards,
Simon


----------



## VRacer-111

simon740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> anybody use rme Adi-2 dac with active speakers or power amp? So like a preamp and a dac ...ali in one solution..
> 
> ...



Mine is used as a DAC pre-amp to drive a NAD C275BEE stereo amp which I use for both my STAX L300 Limited and Polk Audio Rti-A5s. Works extremely well and the Polks have never sounded better, very much like Argon Mk3 with more forward mids.


----------



## Phoniac

New firmware 26/24 is out:

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27924


----------



## devante1977

simon740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> anybody use rme Adi-2 dac with active speakers or power amp? So like a preamp and a dac ...ali in one solution..
> 
> ...


 
as my signature states. No experience outside of headphones since I am currently evaluating/researching for near field monitors to complete my "end game" desktop listening setup.


----------



## AlanU

devante1977 said:


> as my signature states. No experience outside of headphones since I am currently evaluating/researching for near field monitors to complete my "end game" desktop listening setup.



I do not think the RME ADI-2 is remotely close to being end game for a headphone or DAC. I think it's safer to say conditioned satisfaction.

I'm not even certain if a person with well tuned ears would consider active speakers to be ideal for a hifi enthusiast.  Many hifi stereo folks appreciate cross over cct and traditional amplifiers connected via speaker wires to the speakers.  

For near field I would probably settle for a Kef LSX or even lower line X300A for non critical decent speakers for near field. Highly doubt I'd get the rich sweet mids using near field setup with wireless or USB implementation with a digital amplified self powered unit.

The beauty of headphones is that you can buy a different set of headphones to change the character of the music. DACs on the other hand all have a certain character but in many cases solid state dacs in the $1000-2000 grand range seems more of a subjective acceptance in how they sound. All depends on your music genre. Vinyl or tubes seems to be more emotionally moving for me vs highly detailed solid state dacs. Great thing about headphones is that you can swap your headphones depending on the mood you're in or the style of music you're going to listen too.


----------



## tekkster

Phoniac said:


> New firmware 26/24 is out:
> 
> https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27924



Thanks for the info.  Just updated.

Wish every manufacturer made updating this stupid easy.


----------



## simon740

AlanU said:


> I'm not even certain if a person with well tuned ears would consider active speakers to be ideal for a hifi enthusiast





AlanU said:


> I'm not even certain if a person with well tuned ears would consider active speakers to be ideal for a hifi enthusiast


Each one decides what his priority is, but I'm not going back to passive speakers. I only find a suitable dac / preamp, I sit down on the sofa and I enjoy.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Nice setup!


----------



## devante1977 (Nov 29, 2018)

AlanU said:


> I do not think the RME ADI-2 is remotely close to being end game for a headphone or DAC. I think it's safer to say conditioned satisfaction.



well it's my end game...conditioned satisfaction or not.


----------



## tekkster

Yeah, to each their own.  

I would not call it a case of conditioned satisfaction.

I own more expensive dacs (and amps, and headphones, and iems, and, and, and) but still use the adi-2 every day because it does things that other dacs don’t, provides plenty of detail in sound, and works well with a variety of headphones, iems, and amps.  It’s also far above what a laptop or smart device can produce.

It very well could be an endgame dac for many people.  And you can bet it’s one i would never sell, no matter what other gear i buy in the future (well, if rme came out with an upgrade, that might make me sell my current one...maybe).  Heck, I sometimes wonder why i chase other gear when i already have a great setup with the adi-2 in the chain, but then, i’m a little obsessed with chasing sound, as are many on head-fi.


----------



## AlanU

devante1977 said:


> well it's my end game...conditioned satisfaction or not.



In the world of audio especially in the subrange of 1000- 2000 you will definitely be tempted to experiment.  The German brightness and excitement of this dac will be a different  flavour of the music you are listening too. Digital filters cannot recreate note decay easily as it almost appears some filters just rolls off the highs to calm the music.  Note decay on piano or string instruments this solid state dac is probably not it's strong points. Kind of like comparing a Focal Clear/HD800S vs a HIfiman Ananda/aging HD650 in the headphone world.  

Depending on self powered speakers you choose  it'll probably be Class D amplification. Kef's LS50W only uses Class AB for its tangerine tweeter but Class D for the driver so it's going to be punchy. You'll need to feed it a tube or vinyl source to produce a more realistic note decay with  3d holographic vocals and string instruments. 

End game is powerful words that I know most of my audiofile friends can have difficulty including that in a sentence   The more you audition the more you get sucked into the music and demand realism. Now if you talking about background music while being occupied with other things that's a different story.......


----------



## Phoniac

Lots of assumptions and guessing of someone who hasn't even tried this unit. But your posts already make clear you won't like it anyway. Something so cheap and small can't be that good...


----------



## simon740

AlanU said:


> Depending on self powered speakers you choose it'll probably be Class D amplification. Kef's LS50W only uses Class AB for its tangerine tweeter but Class D for the driver so it's going to be punchy. You'll need to feed it a tube or vinyl source to produce a more realistic note decay with 3d holographic vocals and string instruments



my Sonodyne have AB amp..for both driver
Sorry for OT


----------



## robert766

Thanks for all the reviews and impressions! Everything I've read about this here and on other forums makes it sound like a beautifully designed and well manufactured piece of gear. Definitely on my shortlist for my endgame setup. 

About realism though I wonder if it wouldn't  make more sense to actually spend more money on going to watch actual live music instead of on electronics trying to replicate the real thing?


----------



## devante1977 (Nov 29, 2018)

AlanU said:


> In the world of audio especially in the subrange of 1000- 2000 you will definitely be tempted to experiment.  The German brightness and excitement of this dac will be a different  flavour of the music you are listening too. Digital filters cannot recreate note decay easily as it almost appears some filters just rolls off the highs to calm the music.  Note decay on piano or string instruments this solid state dac is probably not it's strong points. Kind of like comparing a Focal Clear/HD800S vs a HIfiman Ananda/aging HD650 in the headphone world.
> 
> Depending on self powered speakers you choose  it'll probably be Class D amplification. Kef's LS50W only uses Class AB for its tangerine tweeter but Class D for the driver so it's going to be punchy. You'll need to feed it a tube or vinyl source to produce a more realistic note decay with  3d holographic vocals and string instruments.
> 
> End game is powerful words that I know most of my audiofile friends can have difficulty including that in a sentence   The more you audition the more you get sucked into the music and demand realism. Now if you talking about background music while being occupied with other things that's a different story.......



I hear you, but I have zero desire to fall into "gear acquisition syndrome" such as in my life of a below-adequate-guitar player and how GAS can get you into trouble here (amps, pedals, other guitars, etc). I only have so much time, money and energy  I want to spend into this because that is time that takes away from actually listening to music and enjoying music. I like shiny new things in this hobby just like the next guy and drool over the latest and greatest high end stuff. I have access to higher end stuff than what I have (thanks to my friends who actually make a living in this headphone space race). For me, I just have to draw the line at some point.

The Kefs are outstanding. I have a vinyl source and I would rather listen to vinyl through speakers than my headphones


----------



## AlanU

tekkster said:


> Yeah, to each their own.
> 
> I would not call it a case of conditioned satisfaction.
> 
> ...



If the RME is perfect for every aspect to one's ears there is no need for other gear ownership. "everyday" states some differentiation between your more expensive gear. This is my point of different flavours for different purposes. "Everyday" to me is turning on my Denon AVR for background non critical listening music. Critical listening I'll use a Simaudio Moon amp with a totally different pair of speakers. Mood and type of music with different genre's too. 

My point of discussion is that there is a never ending supply of fresh products. System synergy is also a very crucial combination of "satisfaction".

There is a point of diminishing returns so I get that. For the affordable price range of the RME it's a great value. It's a hot topic as this product started to get a spot light from paid reviewers. Marketing is strong in the audio world.

We all get use to a certain sound. This combination of equipment is a form of conditioning. We will use a certain "combo" sound as a reference point when auditioning other equipment. 

Not here to argue or disrespect in anway.  I simply stated "end game" is a strong combo of words that is not often reality.


----------



## tekkster (Nov 29, 2018)

AlanU said:


> In the world of audio especially in the subrange of 1000- 2000 you will definitely be tempted to experiment.  The German brightness and excitement of this dac will be a different  flavour of the music you are listening too. Digital filters cannot recreate note decay easily as it almost appears some filters just rolls off the highs to calm the music.  Note decay on piano or string instruments this solid state dac is probably not it's strong points. Kind of like comparing a Focal Clear/HD800S vs a HIfiman Ananda/aging HD650 in the headphone world.
> 
> Depending on self powered speakers you choose  it'll probably be Class D amplification. Kef's LS50W only uses Class AB for its tangerine tweeter but Class D for the driver so it's going to be punchy. You'll need to feed it a tube or vinyl source to produce a more realistic note decay with  3d holographic vocals and string instruments.
> 
> End game is powerful words that I know most of my audiofile friends can have difficulty including that in a sentence   The more you audition the more you get sucked into the music and demand realism. Now if you talking about background music while being occupied with other things that's a different story.......



Hmmm.  I own the Focal Utopia, HD 800, KSE1200, T1, HD650, aging Denon and AT headphones, among others.  Own multiple analog sources and tube amps.  Again, like many on head-fi, I'm a little irrationally obsessed.  I've been chasing audio since my first Berkofsky handmade speakers purchased back in '88.  And have an old (and long since broken) Stax Lambda Pro Classic and SRM-T1S (buried in a box somewhere in the garage)

So...when you talk about analog vs. digital with regards to sources and chains, that's a very different conversation from talking about just the RME in a world of DACs.

The first post of your's that I responded to seemed to be talking about the RME as an endgame for those who listen to digital music.  To which I would definitely say it could easily be end game for many people.

The second post which I'm quoting here seems to be talking about SS DACs vs. analog in general, and that statement, frankly, is one you could apply to any SS DAC and not particularly to the ADI-2.  What you seem to be saying here is that NO SS DAC under $2000 can be end game because any DAC in this price range can't compare to analog.  I'm assuming by your price range clarification that you are withholding judgement on more expensive SS DACs.

One can easily infer from your two posts that your opinion is that end game requires a pure analog chain, or spending obscene amounts of money in order to be considered end game.

And that opinion, while certainly acceptable for you to have in reference to yourself (I too spend too much on audio gear to really argue against that point), does not apply to every hard core audiophile.  Not every hardcore audiophile, even those with "well tuned ears", can afford to spend (or can justify spending) irrational amounts of money on audio gear.

Many can barely afford spending on the ADI-2 DAC and a good pair of headphones.  Others may have the disposable income but have other financial priorities and/or obligations in life.

When discussing end game, the real question I ask is whether a piece of equipment performs far above the competition in the same price range.  To that end, the ADI-2 is absolutely end game worthy.

Though just an opinion, the ADI-2, to my mind and my ears and my requirements, performs far above its price range.  It may be the best value for dollar purchase (for audio gear) I have ever made.  I will personally probably keep chasing more gear, cuz I'm stupid that way (and old and a  DINK), but in terms of both "true value" and "value for dollar", the ADI-2 is hard to beat and an easily justifiable, highly satisfying end game DAC/AMP.


----------



## tekkster

AlanU said:


> If the RME is perfect for every aspect to one's ears there is no need for other gear ownership. "everyday" states some differentiation between your more expensive gear. This is my point of different flavours for different purposes. "Everyday" to me is turning on my Denon AVR for background non critical listening music. Critical listening I'll use a Simaudio Moon amp with a totally different pair of speakers. Mood and type of music with different genre's too.
> 
> My point of discussion is that there is a never ending supply of fresh products. System synergy is also a very crucial combination of "satisfaction".
> 
> ...



I wrote my previous post before seeing this one.

Your point here is a fair one.


----------



## simon740

Tsukuyomi said:


> Nice setup!


Thank you


----------



## Phoniac

AlanU said:


> It's a hot topic as this product started to get a spot light from paid reviewers. Marketing is strong in the audio world.



Did I misunderstand that statement or are you accusing RME of paying reviewers to write (positively, obviously) about their ADI-2 DAC? If so can you provide any proof for this serious claim?


----------



## AlanU

Phoniac said:


> Did I misunderstand that statement or are you accusing RME of paying reviewers to write (positively, obviously) about their ADI-2 DAC? If so can you provide any proof for this serious claim?



The audio world is extremely lucrative. Let's call a spade of spade......

Reverting the question back to you......is there proof that every article on the web/paperback/blog is not compensated in some form or another? Is there full disclosure when perks or privileges are granted? is there pure honesty if a high profile magazine requests gear for a cover spread? There is always some form of etiquette in the balance of graceful access to hardware,  in exchange of wonderful subject content for a magazine/blog etc to sustain readers.

Human nature.........It is what it is. 

Real world reviews from end users on public forums is probably a safer bet in reality. However thin wallet justifying their happy expenditure on new "toys" can also skew reality too 

There should be full disclosure but that doesn't always happen. Oddly enough many are not aware of this world of marketing.


----------



## cardeli22

AlanU said:


> The audio world is extremely lucrative. Let's call a spade of spade......
> 
> Reverting the question back to you......is there proof that every article on the web/paperback/blog is not compensated in some form or another? Is there full disclosure when perks or privileges are granted? is there pure honesty if a high profile magazine requests gear for a cover spread? There is always some form of etiquette in the balance of graceful access to hardware,  in exchange of wonderful subject content for a magazine/blog etc to sustain readers.
> 
> ...


As those public forum reviewers get bigger, they too can become susceptible to the quid pro quo of reviews for things they may not even have to return.


----------



## Phoniac

AlanU said:


> The audio world is extremely lucrative. Let's call a spade of spade......
> 
> Reverting the question back to you.......



No, you don't. I did not come up with that statement, and therefore I don't have to proof anything.

Analyzing the rest of your bla bla it's obvious that you now try to cirumvent and drift away from your initial statement, which is pure phantasy but presented as fact.


----------



## AlanU

cardeli22 said:


> As those public forum reviewers get bigger, they too can become susceptible to the quid pro quo of reviews for things they may not even have to return.



Indeed this is what happens!!

I've spoken to a local boutique tube amplifier company being approached by reviewers. He mentioned to me in disgust that there was a conversation of an "exchange  of Glowing words"  with no postal return stamps involved in "payment". He declined such lucrative practice of marketing.


----------



## cardeli22

AlanU said:


> Indeed this is what happens!!
> 
> I've spoken to a local boutique tube amplifier company being approached by reviewers. He mentioned to me in disgust that there was a conversation of an "exchange  of Glowing words"  with no postal return stamps involved in "payment". He declined such lucrative practice of marketing.


Damn, that sucks. That kind of mentality hurts the credibility of those who are giving their honest opinion on products.


----------



## AlanU

Phoniac said:


> No, you don't. I did not come up with that statement, and therefore I don't have to proof anything.
> 
> Analyzing the rest of your bla bla it's obvious that you now try to cirumvent and drift away from your initial statement, which is pure phantasy but presented as fact.



The "fact" is that this "relationship" of audio product and reviewer exists.  Pretending such methods of marketing does not exist is not realistic. 

The difficulty is that we must all read reviews and sift through well written genuine analysis or skewed biased reviews due to perks. 

Since audio is all subjective we are all able to enjoy our gear regardless of cost or status. 

I'm not shocked that stating a fact of lucrative aggressive marketing can ruffle feathers. Earlier it's presumptuous of me to state "paid reviewers" to a degree but I will not delete such statements either. To say it's not happening is being naive. I have facts that it exists. 

Is the RME a great product? sure........ hyper detail with pinpoint location of instruments and soundstage is a good thing. Sometimes less is more and listening to tube or vinyl has an entirely different sense of the music. Vocals can be determined as "sounds great" but true to the recording? This is why we tend to look for audio nirvana. Seems going solid state or tube gear is just as different as swapping from one headphone to another.  Holographic 3d vocals with natural sounding sound stage  can be achieved with less detail from vinyl or tube. This is why I own both solid state and tube.


----------



## ngd3

tekkster said:


> Congratulations @ngd3 !!   I hope you enjoy the ADI-2 DAC.  It'll be great with IEMs for sure.  I don't have the same IEMs you have, but the ones I do have work perfectly on this DAC.



Sooooooo impressed by the ADI-2 DAC so far, mainly with the LCDi4. Roon + Audeze EQ + added subbass boost, then bass knob boost if I want to warm up the sound some 

Love the interface, it's just intuitive enough where I've barely used the manual. Definitely need to learn how programmable the remote is for even easier use.

Anybody that uses IEMs with it have any tips for the settings? The first filter and no crossfeed sound best to me, but haven't messed with them much


----------



## tekkster

ngd3 said:


> Sooooooo impressed by the ADI-2 DAC so far, mainly with the LCDi4. Roon + Audeze EQ + added subbass boost, then bass knob boost if I want to warm up the sound some
> 
> Love the interface, it's just intuitive enough where I've barely used the manual. Definitely need to learn how programmable the remote is for even easier use.
> 
> Anybody that uses IEMs with it have any tips for the settings? The first filter and no crossfeed sound best to me, but haven't messed with them much



I really change filters depending on the headphone/iem.  For instance, for ety er4p, i use nos or sd slow, for kse1200, i use fast.  I don’t have the lcdi4.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Does anyone have experience with both ADI-2 and the Grace Design m900? I own the latter and I am wondering if the ADI-2 would be a clear sound improvement (not features) over the m900.


----------



## money4me247

CaptainFantastic said:


> Does anyone have experience with both ADI-2 and the Grace Design m900? I own the latter and I am wondering if the ADI-2 would be a clear sound improvement (not features) over the m900.



@CaptainFantastic,

I have both. I recently purchased the RME ADI-2 dac specifically because my IEMs (andromeda and xelento) would hiss on the grace m900 and I also wanted balanced pre-amp output. They both use the same AKM4490 dac chip. I've only had the RME ADI-2 for a day though.

To be perfectly honest but also very unhelpful, I personally don't think there are very big of sonic differences between the majority of dacs despite what it reads on head-fi. I have done tons of direct comparisons of different dacs with TOTL headphones, and it is extremely difficult for me to pick out which dac I am listening to in a blinded volume-matched comparison, unless the dac actually sucks. When comparing two good dacs, if there are any sonic differences, they are inconsequential to me, as I have tried and failed to consistently identify which dac is which when blinded, and I believe that good dacs should be transparent so there should not be any significant additional coloring that would allow me to tell which dac is which. If you have a different personal experience or perspective, then I think my perspective will not be helpful for you. The ADI-2 measured extremely well by ASR, so should be basically transparent. I am sure the m900 would also measure very well though. 

Subjectively, the ADI-2 definitely sounds really good. I did a quick side-by-side comparison just now. For my HD800S, very rough approximately volume levels, I am around the -25 to -20.0 dB low power mode volume setting on the ADI-2 for comfortable listening levels and on the grace m900 I usually go to 60-65.

Personally, if the m9xx had balanced outputs and black background with IEMs, I would not have upgraded, and I always believe my money goes further when spent in my headphone/IEM/speaker budget, so I would recommend If you are already happy with the m900 to just stay with it, but if you would benefit from the features of the ADI-2 dac, it is an extremely good dac/amp.

If you had any more specific questions, I can try to be more helpful.


----------



## AlanU

money4me247 said:


> @CaptainFantastic,
> 
> I have both. I recently purchased the RME ADI-2 dac specifically because my IEMs (andromeda and xelento) would hiss on the grace m900 and I also wanted balanced pre-amp output. They both use the same AKM4490 dac chip. I've only had the RME ADI-2 for a day though.
> 
> ...



Nice to read your comments even after spending some coin on new gear. 

I do think many solid state dacs simply fall into a character sound of the make/brand. Detail overload is very common and this is where I almost find a lot of solid state dacs sound similar to an extent and has acceptable meat/mids. Clarity with detail to my ears can sound thin. 

Listening to many solid state dacs with my HD800 will produce a hyper detailed experience and bite me with fatigue in a short period of time. Oddly enough grabbing my portable affordable Peachtree Shift (dac/amp)with a warmer sound signature is a very nice match not feeling thin or very lacking in convincing vocals. Using my spacetech labs tube dac for jazzy vocals is incredibly convincing with realism and analog life unlike almost every solid state dac I've auditioned/owned.  However this is where I will use solid state dacs for some different genre or the mood I'm in.

Since we all experiment with gear I think many should consider solid state and Tube. Finding audio nirvana is the fun of audio isn't it


----------



## TypodCrowd

NickedWicked said:


> Might pick it up to hear it alongside it’s older brother after I’m done with comparisons between the ADI-2 Pro, Mytek Brooklyn+, Hugo 2 and Benchmark DAC3 HGC.



Any chance you had the opportunity to post your comparative review? I've been a die-hard benchmark believer for years and I'm this close to ordering one of these. Just looking for some ideas on how you felt they compared.


----------



## technobear

AlanU said:


> Nice to read your comments even after spending some coin on new gear.
> 
> I do think many solid state dacs simply fall into a character sound of the make/brand. Detail overload is very common and this is where I almost find a lot of solid state dacs sound similar to an extent and has acceptable meat/mids. Clarity with detail to my ears can sound thin.
> 
> ...


There are several sources of fatigue. Timing is the major one to my ears which is why I use NOS (no oversampling, no digital filtering) whenever possible. The ADI2-DAC has a NOS mode and this one sounds the best to me. It is the most musical and involving and real and the least fatiguing.


----------



## Dave S (Dec 8, 2018)

A quick update, unfortunately I had to return my RME AD-I DAC as it had a ground loop issue manifesting itself as a low volume buzzing in my speakers.

There were no problems using headphones, but as my main listing is with speakers I could not accept a product that caused issues upstream in my system...


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@money4me247 Thank you for such a quick, helpful, and detailed response. The decision I have to take is not for replacing the m900, which I like very much, but what to get for a second unit since I need one at work. I was thinking of "upgrading" at home to the ADI-2 and moving the m900 to work. Hearing your experience with these, I think I will just go with a second m900. I like the simplicity/functionality/sound well enough that only a detectable sound improvement would make me go for a more expensive unit at home. I was looking at the Violectric v200 too for awhile, but I read quite a few opinions elsewhere that it's dull sounding and not worth the price.


----------



## unmaker

money4me247 said:


> @CaptainFantastic,
> 
> I have both. I recently purchased the RME ADI-2 dac specifically because my IEMs (andromeda and xelento) would hiss on the grace m900 and I also wanted balanced pre-amp output. They both use the same AKM4490 dac chip. I've only had the RME ADI-2 for a day though.
> 
> ...



As a DAC, how would you compare the ADI-2 DAC to the Schiit Gungnir? Secondly, how  would you compare the ADI-2 DAC as a headphone amp/dac to the Schiit Gungnir/Mjolnir 2?


----------



## mcgo

Dave S said:


> A quick update, unfortunately I had to return my RME AD-I DAC as it had a ground loop issue manifesting itself as a low volume buzzing in my speakers.



Pretty lame reason to return the equipment. You’ll have ground loop issues regardless if your electrical wiring permits it. Additionally the RME power supply has no ground pin!

Did you try plugging all needed equipment into the same outlet? That’s generally a good start to debug your setup.


----------



## jerick70

mcgo said:


> Pretty lame reason to return the equipment. You’ll have ground loop issues regardless if your electrical wiring permits it. Additionally the RME power supply has no ground pin!
> 
> Did you try plugging all needed equipment into the same outlet? That’s generally a good start to debug your setup.





Dave S said:


> A quick update, unfortunately I had to return my RME AD-I DAC as it had a ground loop issue manifesting itself as a low volume buzzing in my speakers.
> 
> There were no problems using headphones, but as my main listing is with speakers I could not accept a product that caused issues upstream in my system...


Yes it sounds like an issue in your audio chain not the ADI-2.


----------



## Slaphead

Just picked one of these up as I could use it as an AIO solution for both my Mac (USB) and Playstation (Optical) to my active computer speakers

So far so good. It works as intended. Can't say I'm really noticing that much difference between the previous two solutions that I was using other than the ADI seems a bit laid back, but the spectrum analyser makes it a keeper.


----------



## AlanU

CaptainFantastic said:


> @money4me247 Thank you for such a quick, helpful, and detailed response. The decision I have to take is not for replacing the m900, which I like very much, but what to get for a second unit since I need one at work. I was thinking of "upgrading" at home to the ADI-2 and moving the m900 to work. Hearing your experience with these, I think I will just go with a second m900. I like the simplicity/functionality/sound well enough that only a detectable sound improvement would make me go for a more expensive unit at home. I was looking at the Violectric v200 too for awhile, but I read quite a few opinions elsewhere that it's dull sounding and not worth the price.



Just my opinion....try something else as all of this money pit audio stuff is all about adventure. 

At home you have the opportunity to possibly have a  larger footprint/gear that may elevate your music listening experience. 

Another consideration is to simply buy different set of headphones. Largest change with different transducers in some cases.


----------



## JSOppenheimer (Dec 8, 2018)

CaptainFantastic said:


> Does anyone have experience with both ADI-2 and the Grace Design m900? I own the latter and I am wondering if the ADI-2 would be a clear sound improvement (not features) over the m900.


Like others before, I doubt it. Personally, I believe that the difference between a good DAC (like M900) and excellent DAC (like ADI-2 DAC) is nearly impossible to hear in practice, and you really shouldn't go for RME ADI-2 DAC expecting a massive increase in base sound quality. What really makes ADI-2 DAC special is its massive set of features (adjustable crossfeed, EQ, DAC filters etc.) that allow for you to fine-tune your listening experience, and if you have no interest in dabbling in things like that, then you're just paying a large amount of money for imperceptible differences.

And yeah, I absolutely love my ADI-2 DAC, but I certainly wouldn't be able to justify its price if it weren't for the fact that I actively use a large part of its feature set.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

AlanU said:


> Just my opinion....try something else as all of this money pit audio stuff is all about adventure.
> 
> At home you have the opportunity to possibly have a  larger footprint/gear that may elevate your music listening experience.



I am open to the idea of getting something bigger, suited to home use and discernably better than the m900. What would you suggest given the following:

1) I want to stay with solid state.
2) My end-game headphones are the LCD-MX4, which are planars and very easy to drive, so I need low output impedence.
3) I don't like sterile sound, hence the warm Audioquest headphones for when I want ultimate comfort. I do realize that this means that I shouldn't pair them with an amp/dac which is also warm.
4) I don't like the idea of Chinese brands / order from China.
5) I do want a reasonable price. I am not one of those people that bought high-end Audeze because money is of no concern.

Any suggestions on what I could spend a few hours researching?


----------



## Dave S (Dec 8, 2018)

mcgo said:


> Pretty lame reason to return the equipment. You’ll have ground loop issues regardless if your electrical wiring permits it. Additionally the RME power supply has no ground pin!
> 
> Did you try plugging all needed equipment into the same outlet? That’s generally a good start to debug your setup.



"No Ground Pin" exactly, that is the problem, my Naim amp expects all sources to be grounded so I am told.

Out of interest how is it lame to return an item that does not work in my setup?


----------



## money4me247

unmaker said:


> As a DAC, how would you compare the ADI-2 DAC to the Schiit Gungnir? Secondly, how  would you compare the ADI-2 DAC as a headphone amp/dac to the Schiit Gungnir/Mjolnir 2?


@unmaker, I used to be really interested in trying to pick out the subtle differences between gear, but I've reached a point in this hobby where I don't really care very much about really pinpointing the small differences in dac and amplifiers. The headphones or speakers make such a larger degree of difference that I just focus my time trying to make sure I find the right headphones for my tastes. Spending extra money on headphones is usually more interesting and more enjoyable for me as well.

For picking dac/amplifiers, I really just go by what features I need. I am keeping the ADI-2 DAC over the Gungnir/Mjolnir 2 stack primarily because the hiss of the Andromeda was driving me nuts and I wanted gear that can play it with a black background. Even the Grace M9xx has hiss with the Andromeda which is crazy to me. The Mjolnir 2 is way too powerful for my Campfire Andromeda which I actually use more often than my HD800S nowadays, so I specifically searched for a well-recommended dac/amp in the $1k range that works well with very sensitive IEMs.

From my prior personal subjective listening tests, I actually felt like different amplifiers actually made a bigger difference with the sound compared to dacs, and that differences between tube vs solid-state amplifiers were much more easily discernible. That is the exact reason why I originally choose the Mjolnir 2 specifically so I would have the flexibility to go with tubes or solid state depending on my mood, and I could actually hear a difference between the LISST vs stock tube different set-ups, so I felt like I was actually getting my moneys worth (basically two amplifiers bundled in one, right?). While I initially really enjoyed the tube set-up with my HD800S and preferred using tubes, I later found that with the Focal Utopia, the LISST set-up matched my tastes better. I haven't touched any tubes in the past 2 years, and I don't really miss tube rolling. Really the big reason to buy the Mjolnir 2 is if you specifically need a balanced amplifier that can do both tubes and solid state, and you have an interest in tube rolling. The ifi iCan Pro is the other balanced option with both tube & solid state modes off the top of my head, but you cannot tube roll with the iCan.

For dacs, when I originally purchased the Gungnir multibit, there was soooo much hype on the forums about how much better R2R dacs are compared to delta-sigma dacs. I figured if I was going to be spending extra money on a balanced external dac, I might as well get something more unique. I also had a really good prior experience with the old Lyr 2 + Bifrost stack, so it just seemed like the natural upgrade for me. When I did my listening tests, I actually also preferred the Gungnir over the Yggdrasil in direct side-by-side comparisons as well, so it was perfect for my budget as well.

Nowadays, I don't really care much. I would feel disingenuous to write up a side-by-side comparisons and wax on poetically about the sonic character of each specific combo when I personally don't even really feel like the differences are significant. I apologize I can't give a better answer.

To be perfectly honest, I think the vast majority of things posted are 'hard to translate universally' at best or very misleading at worse, especially since I have personally frequently found a very jarring disconnect between my own subjective experiences vs many popular claims or impressions here. I would caution against placing any faith in other people's impressions as the subjective nature of the hobby is undeniable. I think it is best just to audition/compare yourself. I even think it is better not know anything, rather than believe other people's impressions or get biased by other people's perspectives.


----------



## Phoniac

JSOppenheimer said:


> if you have no interest in dabbling in things like that, then you're just paying a large amount of money for imperceptible differences.



I happily pay the higher price for the Spectral Analyzer, the Status Overview, clear display of volume, balance, sample rate and so on, balanced outputs, fade-in and jack contacts functions, various protection circuits, clickless operation, super fast reaction on sample rate and format changes (no audio cut off at the start), the choice of native and RME drivers, recording of SPDIF input, extended standby button functionality (remembers last state at power loss) - and the remote. Even if it sounds the same it's worth it, IMHO.


----------



## mcgo

Dave S said:


> "No Ground Pin" exactly, that is the problem, my Naim amp expects all sources to be grounded so I am told.
> 
> Out of interest how is it lame to return an item that does not work in my setup?



From what you've posted -- you set up a ground loop, blamed the studio-quality equipment and then punted it out of the door! Imagine if you were a roadie setting up concert equipment and made a ground loop. Would you junk the equipment? Skip the concert at this venue? No, the roadie would debug and find out what they did wrong.  A post on here might have given you some suggestions, because as it stands you'll probably experience it again with your configuration!

If I was to guess, which is all I can do, I would say it was the USB cable to your computer, which is likely plugged in elsewhere from your hi-fi gear (amp, etc?).  A quick fix might have been to run an extension cord from the computer over to your audio equipment.  Messy, but you'll need to plan your electrical distribution to prevent loops.  This particular scenario is the most common one to cause hum.

I found the wikipedia page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity) helpful in the past, since it has a section on solutions to common ground loop *mis-configurations*.


----------



## Dave S (Dec 9, 2018)

mcgo said:


> From what you've posted -- you set up a ground loop, blamed the studio-quality equipment and then punted it out of the door! Imagine if you were a roadie setting up concert equipment and made a ground loop. Would you junk the equipment? Skip the concert at this venue? No, the roadie would debug and find out what they did wrong.  A post on here might have given you some suggestions, because as it stands you'll probably experience it again with your configuration!
> 
> If I was to guess, which is all I can do, I would say it was the USB cable to your computer, which is likely plugged in elsewhere from your hi-fi gear (amp, etc?).  A quick fix might have been to run an extension cord from the computer over to your audio equipment.  Messy, but you'll need to plan your electrical distribution to prevent loops.  This particular scenario is the most common one to cause hum.
> 
> I found the wikipedia page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity) helpful in the past, since it has a section on solutions to common ground loop *mis-configurations*.



I never use USB just just Coax connection to the ADI from my transport.

Also I do have a solution to the problem, Chord had the same problems with there Hugo DAC and came up with this workaround that also works for the ADI...

From Chord:-

_"Naim amplification has the mains safety ground and the signal ground separated. Naim grounds at source.

To ensure that there is no possibility of mains hum or buzz when the Hugo is connected to a mains charger, it is simply necessary to ground the Hugo as it will be a source component, and Naim expects it to be grounded.

The easiest way is to connect a wire from the earth pin of a standard 13A plugtop to the Naim Supernait terminal marked 'SIGNAL GROUND' on the back panel. This terminal is internally connected to the braid of the signal connections connecting Hugo to the Naim amplifier.

There are no high currents or voltages involved and a simple piece of thin flexible insulated wire will suffice.

The 13A plugtop with the single earth wire added is plugged into the wall adjacent to the Naim amplifier mains plug and completes the ground path and eliminates the hum."
_
At the end of the day the RME DAC was not for me and would have gone back anyway!


----------



## Phoniac

Dave S said:


> but as my main listing is with speakers I could not accept a product that caused issues upstream in my system...



So when will you replace the Naim, as you can't accept a product that is built to cause problems?


----------



## Dave S

Phoniac said:


> So when will you replace the Naim, as you can't accept a product that is built to cause problems?



The Naim works fine with quality components!


----------



## Tsukuyomi

hey guys, quick question. if for some reason the ADI-2 DAC doesnt have enough power to drive a pair of headphones, how does one setup and connect an additional amp ? also, is it possible to use the ADI-2 DAC as an amp only and turn off the DAC feature for lets say allowing me to pair a different DAC to the ADI-2 DAC?


----------



## tekkster

Tsukuyomi said:


> hey guys, quick question. if for some reason the ADI-2 DAC doesnt have enough power to drive a pair of headphones, how does one setup and connect an additional amp ? also, is it possible to use the ADI-2 DAC as an amp only and turn off the DAC feature for lets say allowing me to pair a different DAC to the ADI-2 DAC?



I use the 3-pin XLR output ports on the back to connect to an iFi iCan Pro.  Most any amp would have either L/R 3-pin XLR input or an L/R RCA input.  You could go from Phones or IEM instead, but it's nice to keep those ports free, and really, why not used balanced output when you can.


----------



## Slaphead

Tsukuyomi said:


> hey guys, quick question. if for some reason the ADI-2 DAC doesnt have enough power to drive a pair of headphones, how does one setup and connect an additional amp ? also, is it possible to use the ADI-2 DAC as an amp only and turn off the DAC feature for lets say allowing me to pair a different DAC to the ADI-2 DAC?



The only headphones that I‘ve heard of that this unit can‘t power adequately are the ones you‘d need to be using a seriously hi-end amp with.

But yeah as @tekkster said just connect the XLR or RCA plugs to the amp of your choice - there‘s an option somewhere in that maze of a UI to set both of those outputs to constant/line output, meaning the volume control on the ADI won‘t have any effect.

No, it‘s not possible with the DAC version to use it simply as an amp. It’s purely a digital in and analog out device (although you can record S/PDIF to the USB). It may be possible with the ADI-2 Pro as this has analog inputs, but that‘s not the reason why those inputs are there on that device.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Slaphead said:


> The only headphones that I‘ve heard of that this unit can‘t power adequately are the ones you‘d need to be using a seriously hi-end amp with.
> 
> But yeah as @tekkster said just connect the XLR or RCA plugs to the amp of your choice - there‘s an option somewhere in that maze of a UI to set both of those outputs to constant/line output, meaning the volume control on the ADI won‘t have any effect.
> 
> No, it‘s not possible with the DAC version to use it simply as an amp. It’s purely a digital in and analog out device (although you can record S/PDIF to the USB). It may be possible with the ADI-2 Pro as this has analog inputs, but that‘s not the reason why those inputs are there on that device.


Yeah i imagine, thing is one day i might want to get electrostatic headphones, and im not sure if they would be able to get powered properly from the amp, i think they need a unique amp to power them. not just an adapter dongle to balanced xD


----------



## Slaphead

Tsukuyomi said:


> Yeah i imagine, t*hing is one day i might want to get electrostatic headphones*, and im not sure if they would be able to get powered properly from the amp, i think they need a unique amp to power them. not just an adapter dongle to balanced xD



No way could you power them from anything other than an amp specifically for Electrostats, apart from some weird exceptions. A lot of Electrostats will actually come with the required amp as part of the package, but you'll still need to feed the amp with a signal, and the ADI-2 DAC will more than likely be up to the job IMO.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Slaphead said:


> No way could you power them from anything other than an amp specifically for Electrostats, apart from some weird exceptions. A lot of Electrostats will actually come with the required amp as part of the package, but you'll still need to feed the amp with a signal, and the ADI-2 DAC will more than likely be up to the job IMO.


Fantastic, makes me want it even more lol the ADI-2 DAC that is


----------



## tekkster

Ooooohhhhhh you wanna output to an elec amp.  Nice.  I’m currently exploring diff elec amps.   Which one are you looking at?


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## VRacer-111 (Dec 13, 2018)

Tsukuyomi said:


> Yeah i imagine, thing is one day i might want to get electrostatic headphones, and im not sure if they would be able to get powered properly from the amp, i think they need a unique amp to power them. not just an adapter dongle to balanced xD



The RME ADI-2 will act as DAC and Preamp for an electrostatic setup, and does very well at it. My setup is a little different from a regular E-stat setup because I need to use the ADI-2 for volume control since decided to use my NAD C275BEE stereo amp with a Mjolnir SRD-7 transformer to drive my STAX rig. Works beautifully though... bass is simply spectacular along with fullness of sound because of the C275BEE and the ADI-2 bring clarity and detail along with most impressive black background - plus you have crossfeed and 7 channels of custom EQ you can use to get it how you want it.

Here's some pictures of my current STAX rig configuration:


----------



## Tsukuyomi

VRacer-111 said:


> The RME ADI-2 will act as DAC and Preamp for an electrostatic setup, and does very well at it. My setup is a little different from a regular E-stat setup because I need to use the ADI-2 for volume control since decided to use my NAD C275BEE stereo amp with a Mjolnir SRD-7 transformer to drive my STAX rig. Works beautifully though... bass is simply spectacular along with fullness of sound because of the C275BEE and the ADI-2 bring clarity and detail along with most impressive black background - plus you have crossfeed and 7 channels of custom EQ you can use to get it how you want it.
> 
> Here's some pictures of my current STAX rig configuration:


Fantastic rig dude, super jelly!!  im also thinking of using a laptop because my desktop pc tskes too much room, how you finding the lenovo? Also, did you have any issues with the ADI-2 DAC when it came to drivers or software updates?


----------



## Dave S

Good user review of ADI-2 DAC vs Qutest:-

https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/131055-dac-off-part-2-qutest-vs-rme-adi-2-dac/


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Dave S said:


> Good user review of ADI-2 DAC vs Qutest:-
> 
> https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/131055-dac-off-part-2-qutest-vs-rme-adi-2-dac/


based on this review, it just solidifys my choice to get the RME ADI-2 DAC. but when i do i'll give the "+1dB shelf EQ at 11khz" a try based on what the writer mentioned.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

VRacer-111 said:


> The RME ADI-2 will act as DAC and Preamp for an electrostatic setup, and does very well at it. My setup is a little different from a regular E-stat setup because I need to use the ADI-2 for volume control since decided to use my NAD C275BEE stereo amp with a Mjolnir SRD-7 transformer to drive my STAX rig. Works beautifully though... bass is simply spectacular along with fullness of sound because of the C275BEE and the ADI-2 bring clarity and detail along with most impressive black background - plus you have crossfeed and 7 channels of custom EQ you can use to get it how you want it.
> 
> Here's some pictures of my current STAX rig configuration:


also what software is that on the screen that you're running ? is it foobar2000?


----------



## tekkster

Dave S said:


> Good user review of ADI-2 DAC vs Qutest:-
> 
> https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/131055-dac-off-part-2-qutest-vs-rme-adi-2-dac/



Wow.  that is a great review.  far above my level of technical understanding on what adjustments lead to what results.  Especially his discussion around making tiny modifications to both room elements and eq to achieve desired results.


----------



## VRacer-111

Tsukuyomi said:


> Fantastic rig dude, super jelly!!  im also thinking of using a laptop because my desktop pc tskes too much room, how you finding the lenovo? Also, did you have any issues with the ADI-2 DAC when it came to drivers or software updates?



It's just a basic, lower end Lenovo but works well with Foobar2K, which is the player I use on PC/laptops. No complaints for the price and no real issues in use for music playback. Have not had any issues with the ADI-2 software on Windows 10 that I recall and I'm not one for keeping up with firmware updates unless there are serious issues they deal with. Have not tried updating firmware of the ADI-2 DAC, still running the version it shipped with (19).


----------



## Phoniac

That's a really bad idea. Firmware is now on 26/24, with numerous serious bug fixes that you might misinterpet as 'sound signature' when running into it, especially the (sometimes only slightly) distorted sound playback over USB after using SPDIF. The firmware update takes less than a minute and one can always go back to a former firmware version, so there is no real excuse not to update.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

VRacer-111 said:


> It's just a basic, lower end Lenovo but works well with Foobar2K, which is the player I use on PC/laptops. No complaints for the price and no real issues in use for music playback. Have not had any issues with the ADI-2 software on Windows 10 that I recall and I'm not one for keeping up with firmware updates unless there are serious issues they deal with. Have not tried updating firmware of the ADI-2 DAC, still running the version it shipped with (19).


Im probobly gonna plug it in to update, after update ill only use fiber optic not usb


----------



## tekkster

19 is two versions ago?  I think mine came with 19, but then upgraded to 24/23 and that changed the interface a bit.  I wasn't paying too much attention when upgrading to 26, so haven't really noticed any interface changes.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Placed an order for my RME ADI-2 DAC on sunday!!! getting it within this or next week! hopefully and not after Christmas  as i'll be back to work then and vacation will be over.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Hoping the same thing. I ordered mine on Friday evening from Thomann. Hasn't shipped yet.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Lets hope we get our ADI-2 DACs soon!!! 

PS: man was it expensive >.<;;; but for me as a source, this will be my end game. it has such a usable amount of headphone power that i dont think i'll ever need an amp.
I'm never gonna be using crazy powerful headphones anyways partially because they're out of my price range.

I tried the Audeze LCD2C and Focal Clear Professional at the store. and man! they felt great on the head, coudlnt hear them because i had no source :'(


----------



## Dave S (Dec 17, 2018)

Tsukuyomi said:


> Lets hope we get our ADI-2 DACs soon!!!
> 
> PS: man was it expensive >.<;;; but for me as a source, this will be my end game. it has such a usable amount of headphone power that i dont think i'll ever need an amp.
> I'm never gonna be using crazy powerful headphones anyways partially because they're out of my price range.
> ...



Sorry but you will need an amp for anything but IEM's.  There was very little bass with my HD800's direct from the DAC, add in my amp and the bass came back!

The Arcam rHead is a great amp to use with this dac.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Dave S said:


> Sorry but you will need an amp for anything but IEM's.  There was very little bass with my HD800's direct from the DAC, add in my amp and the bass came back!
> 
> The Arcam rHead is a great amp to use with this dac.


you sure? ive heard lots of people talk about using the 6.35 input with more power hungry headphones and the bass was perfectly fine. maybe you had it on low power setting?


----------



## technobear

Dave S said:


> Sorry but you will need an amp for anything but IEM's.


Sorry to create a disagreement at this joyous time of the year but that is simply not true. The ADI2-DAC works brilliantly with T1, T5p and LCD-X. No additional amping is needed.



Dave S said:


> There was very little bass with my HD800's direct from the DAC, add in my amp and the bass came back!


If ever there was a 'Marmite' headphone, it's the HD800. I think they sound weird at the best of times and need a coloured amp or EQ to get decent bass out of them. The ADI2-DAC is of course perfectly capable of creating a flat (or desired) response from an HD800 if used as intended.


----------



## oqvist

Tsukuyomi said:


> you sure? ive heard lots of people talk about using the 6.35 input with more power hungry headphones and the bass was perfectly fine. maybe you had it on low power setting?


Remember where you are  Sorry for your wallet country.

I do get my LCD-2 and HD 800S powered from it. And they do sound good. I do admit they do sound better to my ears on the Massdrop THX AAA 789 for example but it does power them.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

To be fair, ive had a listen to the HD800 and they sound meh... i honestly think there are better headphones out there for the same price or less.
imo, HD800 is over hyped to the max. I've yet to hear the HD800S properly, and i havent tried the HD820 yet. so no comment on thoes, but i would never personally buy the HD800 for my setup. xD


----------



## tekkster

Tsukuyomi said:


> To be fair, ive had a listen to the HD800 and they sound meh... i honestly think there are better headphones out there for the same price or less.
> imo, HD800 is over hyped to the max. I've yet to hear the HD800S properly, and i havent tried the HD820 yet. so no comment on thoes, but i would never personally buy the HD800 for my setup. xD



Absolutely believe that opinions on audio sound profiles will vary widely by their nature, since audio perception is so subjective.

My own experience with the HD800 is that it is an exceptional headphone,  As one of the early headphones during the post iPod (2000's) massive resurgence of high end headphones, The HD800, to me anyway, is both iconic, and still holds it's own as a wide soundstage headphones.

Not as fast as old Stax, Koss, from the 80's and 90's, sure, but as a high end headphone that could be powered by a low end amp, and an exceptional sounding headphone our of the HDVD800 when they launched together, it really was a stunningly beautiful sounding headphone.

To each their own, but despite buying more expensive headphones (e.g. Utopia, KSE1200, SR009s), the HD800 still gets a lot of use in my home (along with the oft under-rated T1, which also gets a lot of use)


----------



## tekkster

Tsukuyomi said:


> you sure? ive heard lots of people talk about using the 6.35 input with more power hungry headphones and the bass was perfectly fine. maybe you had it on low power setting?



Agree here.  While it's true that an external amp can help and I do often use the T1 with an iCan Pro to the ADI-2 DAC, it's certainly true that the ADI-2 DAC in high-power mode is pretty powerful, and more than enough to drive power hungry T1s, HE1K, etc.  Whether you feel the "oomph" impact or not may be questionable depending on what sound profile you're looking for may be up for debate, but with the right EQ'ing (which the ADI-2 does exceptionally well and granularly), there really are very few headphones that ADI-2 can't drive.


----------



## Dave S (Dec 17, 2018)

Tsukuyomi said:


> To be fair, ive had a listen to the HD800 and they sound meh... i honestly think there are better headphones out there for the same price or less.
> imo, HD800 is over hyped to the max. I've yet to hear the HD800S properly, and i havent tried the HD820 yet. so no comment on thoes, but i would never personally buy the HD800 for my setup. xD



Yeah better off sticking with your Beoplay's


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Dave S said:


> Yeah better off sticking with your Beoplay's


Rude. The H6 are actually fantastic over all cans for commuting and portable use. You dont have to belittle them. Atleast my enjoyment isnt dictated by the price tag like some people.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

My ADI-2 arrived today. What an experience. A lot of literature to go through to get going. Enjoying all the functionalities, learning about the filters and other options. The analyzer is even nicer than expected as an aesthetic bonus (and informational, why not).

My unit came loaded with firmware version 21. I see that there is a newer one from November. I downloaded the file and even after reboots, nothing happens when I click on the .exe file fut_mfusb3.exe. Has anyone else had this issue?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Just 5 minutes later I figured it out. Strangely, I had to first update the driver, reboot, then the firmware update worked. Easy, quick, clean.


----------



## cardeli22

Just got mine today from the Headfi marketplace. I'm at work so I can't really play with it until I get home. Looks amazing. Small but with some heft to it. Can't wait to try it with my Dt 1990 pro and MassDrop Plus iems.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

cardeli22 said:


> Just got mine today from the Headfi marketplace. I'm at work so I can't really play with it until I get home. Looks amazing. Small but with some heft to it. Can't wait to try it with my Dt 1990 pro and MassDrop Plus iems.


I should be getting mine this week also, ill plug my dt1990 pro asap and we can share experiences


----------



## cardeli22

Tsukuyomi said:


> I should be getting mine this week also, ill plug my dt1990 pro asap and we can share experiences


Ah to be able to describe it like this: 
That is the dream. LOL


----------



## canali (Dec 21, 2018)

Dave S said:


> Sorry but you will need an amp for anything but IEM's.  There was very little bass with my HD800's direct from the DAC, add in my amp and the bass came back!
> 
> The Arcam rHead is a great amp to use with this dac.



i wonder how the recently released *monolith cavelli liquid platinum* would sound with this dac.
(this is a pairing i'm considering or else cavelli with qutest).

i only currently have the mojo for my 6xx and lcd2c...will be upgrading soon.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305


----------



## sikki-six (Dec 21, 2018)

HD800 sounding flat out of ADI-2 DAC? Come on, just learn to use that EQ. It's a flawed masterpiece of a headphone FR-wise. A mirror-image bass boost of the bass roll-off seen in measurements works wonders down low. But, even more important is dealing with the spike at about 6K... I have the cut set at -6db @6,5k with Q4,5. I also cut the treble above 7k 1-2db.

800 is a real chameleon of headphones because of its lack of distortion, you can EQ it very well to suit your needs (10db boosts etc. are always a bad idea, though). Yeah, it won't slam like an LCD-2, but it'll have some very nice subs when EQ'd to suit one's taste (maybe +5db @20Hz, Q 0,5). And yeah, it will not be clinical or fatiguing in the slightest.

ADI-2 DAC has plenty of power to drive the 800, but I understand some folks are looking for different flavours. Then maybe start thinking of tubes. Or just really learn to use that EQ and save a bunch of money.


----------



## fonna (Dec 22, 2018)

Connected the adi 2 to my marantz hd amp1, sounds great.. however..do you guys have any advice on volume for me? Should i keep the adi 2 on max volume? And just control the volume on the marantz?


----------



## Slaphead

fonna said:


> Connected the adi 2 to my marantz hd amp1, sounds great.. however..do you guys have any advice on volume for me? Should i keep the adi 2 on max volume? And just control the volume on the marantz?



Check out page 37 (section 19.3) of the manual as this will give you an idea of how to set the volume control for maximum S/N ratio. Personally I'd set it so that you have a reasonable swing on the Marantz amp volume control.


----------



## devante1977 (Dec 22, 2018)

fonna said:


> Connected the adi 2 to my marantz hd amp1, sounds great.. however..do you guys have any advice on volume for me? Should i keep the adi 2 on max volume? And just control the volume on the marantz?



The forums at RME have a few threads that discuss something like this. Considering the capabilities in regards to loudness and EQing I don't think you would need to crank your adi-2 to its max. I don't with my Jotunheim.

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28008

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27924

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27842

EDIT: I don't have any specific info to give to you myself since I am also learning as I go as a newb to all this headphone-audiophile-adventure craziness


----------



## NickedWicked

New firmware is out. 

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28058


----------



## bwcgrx

I'm about to liquidate some headphone gear I don't use enough to keep and I'm seriously thinking about picking up the RME ADI-2 fs with the proceeds.

One question I have, forgive me if its been asked before, are the XLR and RCA outputs fixed line out or are they controlled by the RME's volume control?


----------



## Guniz

bwcgrx said:


> I'm about to liquidate some headphone gear I don't use enough to keep and I'm seriously thinking about picking up the RME ADI-2 fs with the proceeds.
> 
> One question I have, forgive me if its been asked before, are the XLR and RCA outputs fixed line out or are they controlled by the RME's volume control?



You can control the volume of the line out using the RME ADI-2, page 19 of the manual shows an image of the option.

https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dac_e.pdf


----------



## money4me247

Default is that you can control the volume of both XLR and RCA. You can set any output (RCA, XLR, 3.5mm, or 1/4 jack) to be fixed as well though.


----------



## technobear

NickedWicked said:


> New firmware is out.
> 
> https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28058


Hurrah! The bottom 3 channels of the PEQ now go to +-9dB instead of +-5dB. As I'm using the RME to control room boom from my AV system, that is the perfect Christmas present. Thank you RME.


----------



## Phoniac

I share your enjoyment, but the new Q value goes up to 9.9 (or simply 10), and the value is not dB. it's just a number. Happy Holidays!


----------



## technobear

Phoniac said:


> I share your enjoyment, but the new Q value goes up to 9.9 (or simply 10), and the value is not dB. it's just a number. Happy Holidays!


Aha! I have confused Gain and Q. So this enables a notch filter to be narrower. Well that is also useful when dealing with room boom.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Received my RME ADI-2 last week and really enjoying it. Quick question: even though it is connected via the USB cable that came with it, when I go in Windows to Sounds, it shows up as "Analog (1+2) RME ADI-2 DAC". Is this normal? As long as it's not affecting anything I don't care, just wondering. I do have the latest driver and the firmware from November.


----------



## Leviathant

Looking at purchasing a RME ADI-2 DAC. Looking for it to pair with my Utopias and other headphones (LCD2.2, HD600, Periodic Be). Had the Hugo 2 on trial and really wanted to like it as I love the form factor and some music sound out of this world, but it was just too bright a pairing for 75% of my music (despite its different filters, which don’t really do anything different imho). From reading the thread it sounds the natural tuning of the RME won’t be as bright as the Hugo 2, without losing much of the resolution? Anyone able to comment if I’m correct here? @tekkster maybe?

Also, planing on pairing it with the new Monoprice Liquid Platinum amp too and that things sound great (but only have it plugged into my Oppo UDP-203 dac at the mo, and that is way behind the H2 in detail retrieval). I’m hoping the RME sounds between the Oppo and H2 (But closer to the H2 naturally).


----------



## CaptainFantastic

CaptainFantastic said:


> Received my RME ADI-2 last week and really enjoying it. Quick question: even though it is connected via the USB cable that came with it, when I go in Windows to Sounds, it shows up as "Analog (1+2) RME ADI-2 DAC". Is this normal? As long as it's not affecting anything I don't care, just wondering. I do have the latest driver and the firmware from November.



Here is a picture of what it looks like. When I plug in the Grace m900 via USB it shows as USB Xmos. Why does the RME ADI-2 show up as Analog 1+2 when connected by USB?


----------



## tekkster

Leviathant said:


> Looking at purchasing a RME ADI-2 DAC. Looking for it to pair with my Utopias and other headphones (LCD2.2, HD600, Periodic Be). Had the Hugo 2 on trial and really wanted to like it as I love the form factor and some music sound out of this world, but it was just too bright a pairing for 75% of my music (despite its different filters, which don’t really do anything different imho). From reading the thread it sounds the natural tuning of the RME won’t be as bright as the Hugo 2, without losing much of the resolution? Anyone able to comment if I’m correct here? @tekkster maybe?
> 
> Also, planing on pairing it with the new Monoprice Liquid Platinum amp too and that things sound great (but only have it plugged into my Oppo UDP-203 dac at the mo, and that is way behind the H2 in detail retrieval). I’m hoping the RME sounds between the Oppo and H2 (But closer to the H2 naturally).




Natural flat eq tuning is def warmer on adi-2 vs. h2.  And the high level of sound profile customization really gives you a ton of control without sacrificing timber, which surprises me constantly.  I really miss it when traveling.


----------



## Leviathant

tekkster said:


> Natural flat eq tuning is def warmer on adi-2 vs. h2.  And the high level of sound profile customization really gives you a ton of control without sacrificing timber, which surprises me constantly.  I really miss it when traveling.



Thanks for your response. It’s definitely good that it’s warmer by default, presumably not at a huge loss in detail retrieval. 

I’m getting closer to making my mind up and getting the ADI-2. It’s £800 here in the UK and the H2 I was offered was at a pretty decent discount from the £1,800 RRP. Despite the discount I’m still leaning towards the ADI-2. 

What I loved about the H2 though was it’s portability and looks. I’m travelling for the holidays and miss being able to plug it in and listen to music whilst the family watch TV. I like that the Hugo2 can also be put into my main system for music/Movies and then back to the study/bedroom when required too. Just feels like a Swiss Army knife. 

I guess I could always get another mojo for that, but then that option goes up to £1,200 (adi-2 £800 + mojo £400), which is closer to H2 price territory. 

Another thing I loved with the H2 is how fast it was with the Utopia (particularly certain genres of metal music). Do you notice any differences in overal speed when you switch to Utopia/Adi-2 combo? (Last thing I want is the DAC muddying up the sound in fast passages!) I do find the H2 annoyingly bright much of the time but am still finding that I want the speed and clarity that only Hugo2/Utopia has given me (in gear I’ve tried thus far).  

Happy holidays


----------



## tekkster

The adi-2 is not as fast as the h2.  Really, nothing i have can show off the utopia’s speed quite like the h2, at least in my current gear lineup.

Another way to go, something i’ve been contemplating doing myself, is getting a really high end dap.  Qp2r has no streaming but is oft recommneded for use with the utopias.  Sp1000 as well.

I recently purchased the much lower quality opus #3, which i connect to the h2 via optical, and this allows for speed, cutting glare, and a crap ton of eq control pre-dac for the utopias.  Love this setup and while not portable, it is at least transportable.


----------



## Leviathant

tekkster said:


> The adi-2 is not as fast as the h2.  Really, nothing i have can show off the utopia’s speed quite like the h2, at least in my current gear lineup.
> 
> Another way to go, something i’ve been contemplating doing myself, is getting a really high end dap.  Qp2r has no streaming but is oft recommneded for use with the utopias.  Sp1000 as well.
> 
> I recently purchased the much lower quality opus #3, which i connect to the h2 via optical, and this allows for speed, cutting glare, and a crap ton of eq control pre-dac for the utopias.  Love this setup and while not portable, it is at least transportable.



Thanks again. I’ll have to look into those that you mentioned. Transportable is also fine. Ive also heard good things of the Qp2r but I need tidal streaming really. 

I guess I can trial the ADI-2 and see if it’s fast enough for my tastes. The H2 offer is something I need to jump on soon though else I won’t get the price I’ve been quoted. Decision decisions.


----------



## Dogmatrix

CaptainFantastic said:


> Here is a picture of what it looks like. When I plug in the Grace m900 via USB it shows as USB Xmos. Why does the RME ADI-2 show up as Analog 1+2 when connected by USB?


Just a label , pro is the same . If you click on properties you can call it anything you want


----------



## tekkster

Leviathant said:


> Thanks again. I’ll have to look into those that you mentioned. Transportable is also fine. Ive also heard good things of the Qp2r but I need tidal streaming really.
> 
> I guess I can trial the ADI-2 and see if it’s fast enough for my tastes. The H2 offer is something I need to jump on soon though else I won’t get the price I’ve been quoted. Decision decisions.



That is a tough tough call.

I’ve said in the past that i think the rme adi-2 dac is the absolute best value per msrp dollar piece of audio gear i’ve ever owned, performing far far above its price point.

While not as fast as the h2, it is definitely “good enough” to make the utopias highly satisfying to me.  I have other dacs but the h2 and adi-2 are the only two that i use the utopias with. Everything else i own just makes the utopias feel...well...”less”.

The h2 utopia combo can be a tad bright on a good number of songs, though an eq feature on a dap helps a ton wothout removing detail.

Either way is a great choice.

Heck, the adi-2 and h2 are two pieces of gear i will never sell.  They’re both just that good.


----------



## Leviathant

tekkster said:


> That is a tough tough call.
> 
> I’ve said in the past that i think the rme adi-2 dac is the absolute best value per msrp dollar piece of audio gear i’ve ever owned, performing far far above its price point.
> 
> ...




I’m still leaning towards the ADI-2 due to cost and from what I understand the USB implementation is good (H2 sounded much better via Schiit Eitr). Makes the H2 more expensive as I’d have to buy that to. Makes the whole package less transportable once again. 

Also, having used the Liquid Platinum for a few days I’m in love with that. Wallet suggests that I should err on the cheaper side when it comes to the DAC for now. 

Means I can evaluate all my headphones (including IEM) direct from the RME and then through the LP too. (Not that I couldn’t also do that with H2 of course).


----------



## zakazak

Anyone tried this DAC on Linux?

Planning on pairing it with Meier Corda Classic FF / Feliks Lise for my HD800S.


----------



## zakazak

I would also be very interested how this DAC compares to Bifrost Multibit or Meier Daccord FF.

The RME ADI-2 seems to have a lot of features and capabilities but I wonder if I will ever need those. I feel like a basic 24/192kHz DAC is enough for most ppl. So it comes down to quality vs price. 

Anyone had a chance to compare the ADI2 vs Bifrost Multibit or Meier Daccord (FF)?


----------



## canali

guys question: anyone here using a music server and are mostly digital?
i use roon labs and tidal...using a sonictransporter i5 as my server (ipad or laptop is the visual interface)
https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/products/sonictransporter-i5

....how would you hook it up to this dac?

just wondering if i'd need an ultrarendu or a streamer to enhance the signal
(looking at auralic g2 down the road)


----------



## kundica

canali said:


> guys question: anyone here using a music server and are mostly digital?
> i use roon labs and tidal...using a sonictransporter i5 as my server (ipad or laptop is the visual interface)
> https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/products/sonictransporter-i5
> 
> ...


You need to connect the DAC to an endpoint. I use my ADI-2 DAC at my desktop but I could easily feed it signal from my HiFiberry/RPi Roon endpoint.


----------



## canali

kundica said:


> You need to connect the DAC to an endpoint. I use my ADI-2 DAC at my desktop but I could easily feed it signal from my HiFiberry/RPi Roon endpoint.



thanks....so would my sonictransporter 5 be the endpoint?...or would it have to be a bridge such as the sonore ultrarendu etc?


----------



## kundica

canali said:


> thanks....so would my sonictransporter 5 be the endpoint?...or would it have to be a bridge such as the sonore ultrarendu etc?


I'm not familiar enough with the sonictransporter to know if it functions as an output as well. Technically Roon Server runs as core and output so if you can connect a DAC to the USB on the sonictransporter and it shows up in Roon then you should be fine. I watched a video on the sonictransporter and there seems to be a local playback function but I'm not sure when it does. Do you currently have a USB DAC you can connect to the device to test?


----------



## canali (Dec 29, 2018)

kundica said:


> I'm not familiar enough with the sonictransporter to know if it functions as an output as well. Technically Roon Server runs as core and output so if you can connect a DAC to the USB on the sonictransporter and it shows up in Roon then you should be fine. I watched a video on the sonictransporter and there seems to be a local playback function but I'm not sure when it does. Do you currently have a USB DAC you can connect to the device to test?



thanks, just currently using a chord mojo so it should work with sonictransporter i5..i see it has usb 2.0


----------



## kundica

canali said:


> thanks, just currently using a chord mojo so it should work with sonictransporter i5..i see it has usb 2.0


If your Mojo is connect to the Sonictransporter and working then the ADI-2 DAC should work too. If you end up needing another endpoint and don't want to drop a lot of cash on something like the ultrarendu you can look at allo RPi products. They have many different solutions including a USB hat designed for connecting DACs via USB.


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

Please i need help! My adi 2 dac does not decode above 44.1 bit rate on my tidal with my windows 10 computer but it does accurately with my qobuz. What might be the problem i have done every settings i can on tidal including selecting exclusive use with tidal. I also have been trying to upgrade the firmware but it's not happening. I will appreciate your helps . Thanks


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Emmanuel Palmer said:


> Please i need help! My adi 2 dac does not decode above 44.1 bit rate on my tidal with my windows 10 computer but it does accurately with my qobuz. What might be the problem i have done every settings i can on tidal including selecting exclusive use with tidal. I also have been trying to upgrade the firmware but it's not happening. I will appreciate your helps . Thanks



I had the firmware not updating thing for about 5 minutes. Then I updated the driver first, rebooted, and firmware update worked.


----------



## JerkChicken (Jan 4, 2019)

Came in the mail today so I had some reading to do on my lunch break


----------



## newtophones07

When changing source bitrate/sample rate/DSD etc, across a music library, can you hear a click on this DAC?


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

CaptainFantastic said:


> I had the firmware not updating thing for about 5 minutes. Then I updated the driver first, rebooted, and firmware update worked.


I will give it a try. Thanks


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

newtophones07 said:


> When changing source bitrate/sample rate/DSD etc, across a music library, can you hear a click on this DAC?


I don't hear a click except when switching off and on


----------



## JerkChicken

i'll check and let you know.. once i get tired of looking at beautiful analyzer hehe


----------



## CaptainFantastic

JerkChicken said:


> i'll check and let you know.. once i get tired of looking at beautiful analyzer hehe



OK, so we will never hear from you again on the subject. 

I think I read just yesterday on the RME support forum (from Matthias?) that they do not recommend changing this while playing music as there might be some noise.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

I mentioned above that I saw something about this yesterday on the RME forum. It was about the ADI-2 DAC but I cannot find it anymore. What I did find was this from 2017 re the PRO. It might still be helpful. It is from Matthias himself and keep in mind that this was 2017, some of these facts may have changed:

"The ADI-2 Pro is completely silent on power-up and power-down. [...]

Changing sample rate from a 3xx or 7xx range to 44/48 kHz sometimes causes a click on one channel. This phenomenon is known and still investigated (not easy as it does not happen all the time). It can happen with USB plugging too, as the sample rate is changed to 768 kHz for a brief moment when connecting the ADI-2 Pro to a Mac. Etc.

Changing the filter to NOS causes a (harmless) click directly in the DAC chip when music is played back at the same time. This can not be fixed and is no real problem (and how often do you change the filter?).

The click on Auto Level is harmless as well and can not be fixed, as this level change is nothing different than the user manually changing the Ref Level. This involves relays changing gain, which can not be click-free. The change itself is click-free (try it without audio), but an instant level change on audio always generates a sharp edge, which at the wrong position resembles a click sound. Adding soft level changes/mutes to avoid this click would have ruined the tech specs of the whole AD section."


----------



## Phoniac

The one-channel-click is fixed some time ago by firmware update.

I hear a lot of compilations and never noticed a click between tracks.


----------



## technobear

CaptainFantastic said:


> "The ADI-2 Pro is completely silent on power-up and power-down. [...]


Hmmm. Well that certainly isn't true of ADI2-DAC which makes several interesting clicks and a slight thud through the speakers on removal of the power. Perhaps it is silent if one puts it into Standby first. I'll have to try that later.


----------



## newtophones07

technobear said:


> Hmmm. Well that certainly isn't true of ADI2-DAC which makes several interesting clicks and a slight thud through the speakers on removal of the power. Perhaps it is silent if one puts it into Standby first. I'll have to try that later.


Thanks for the feedback


----------



## technobear

newtophones07 said:


> Thanks for the feedback


Now that I'm home I can confirm that ADI2-DAC emits two clicks through the speakers when putting it into Standby.

Once in Standby, it doesn't emit any further sounds when the power is removed.

Curiously, if headphones are plugged in, the clicks still come from the speakers, not the headphones. Weird.


----------



## tekkster

JerkChicken said:


> i'll check and let you know.. once i get tired of looking at beautiful analyzer hehe



Can one ever get tired of the beautiful analyzer? (^_^)


----------



## JamieCole

tekkster said:


> Can one ever get tired of the beautiful analyzer? (^_^)



I forget this thing has other features sometimes... how are we supposed to tinker with the sound while the bars are dancing to our music? 



Anyone prefer green over cyan? Default over dark?


----------



## JerkChicken

Green & Dark for me


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Same for me, green and dark. Auto-dark on remote button 3.


----------



## zakazak

I still couldnt decide on wether to get the RME ADI-2 DAC or the Meier Daccord FF.  

The Daccord a simple but awesome DAC which basically is plug and play. 

The RME ADI-2 comes with a lot of features but I wonder if I would ever need any of those. Can any describe some features that they use on theor RME and cant live without anymore?

Will use it for HD800S together with Meier Classic FF / Feliks Elise.

Also: Why do 32bit DACs not come with a USB 3.x port? Would USB 2.0 even be fast enough for the file size an data that 32bit audio has?


----------



## Slaphead (Jan 5, 2019)

zakazak said:


> Also: Why do 32bit DACs not come with a USB 3.x port? Would USB 2.0 even be fast enough for the file size an data that 32bit audio has?



Yep, easily. USB 2.0 tops out at 480 Mbps - slow by todays standards, but more than enough to feed 32 bit DACs with pretty much any currently available sample rate.

Just remember the standard redbook (16/44.1) over USB 1.0 only used approx one eighth (12.5%) of the available bandwidth in high speed mode (12Mbps), so even USB 1 would have been theoretically capable of 32/176.4 and easily capable of 32/96.


----------



## JerkChicken

zakazak said:


> The RME ADI-2 comes with a lot of features but I wonder if I would ever need any of those. Can any describe some features that they use on theor RME and cant live without anymore?



My top selling points were:
-remote 
-eq 
-volume ramp, volume presets

Also, the amp itself is enough to power me ether 2’s with ease. I have plent more db’s to go and no where near maxing it out like my old hpa4 just to get a reasonable listening level


----------



## CaptainFantastic (Jan 6, 2019)

I purchased it thinking the advantages would be:
- 1 single unit with a single plug replacing the 3 units of the Schiit stack and doing the same thing - AMP/DAC/EQ
- a unit that does not run hot and I do not have to worry about
- quality engineering
- advanced EQ possibilities

Based on advice I received, I was not hoping for a sound improvement over the Grace Design m900 which I already liked very much.

After the purchase:
- all 4 above were true
- the major thing is that the sound quality did improve, the MX4s went from very good to pure gold
- the spectral analyser is just perfect
- I am enjoying the remote control and using it more than I thought leaning back, adjusting the volume from track to track, turning features on and off as needed
- top custmer support on the RME forum in order to understand the features and adjust as needed
- IEM plug will come in handy someday


----------



## Deftone (Jan 5, 2019)

I am considering the ADI 2 DAC or Pro FS , i know the measurements are amazing but worried about sterile sound.


----------



## technobear

Deftone said:


> I am considering the ADI 2 DAC or Pro FS , i know the measurements are amazing but worried about sterile sound.


What sterile sound?


----------



## Deftone

technobear said:


> What sterile sound?



Possibility of sterile sound, reviews are mixed, some say neutral some say cold and flat.


----------



## JerkChicken

Deftone said:


> Possibility of sterile sound, reviews are mixed, some say neutral some say cold and flat.



As a company catered to professional studio production I’d expect it to be that way. You can eq the sound curve as you like from my understanding.


----------



## powerincarnate

Also posted in another thread to get a diversity of opinions.  

Please assist me with getting a DAC/AMP, my preferred max price range is about $1000 to $1200, but would be open to extending it slightly . I know some examples that I mentioned below are outside the price range, but I do want to hear your opinions regardless. I do have a MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, and may elect to upgrade that later. Finally, the other option is to upgrade my subwoofer, for home home speakers as I have Three LS50s in LCR setup with a denon 4400 receiver. What I'm looking for is not only A is better than B, but how much is A better than B and is that difference worth the price increase. So here are some of my choices.
1. SMSL SU8 ahd SH8 which together should run somewhat close to $500-550. 
2. JDS El Dac and El Amp OR simpy the Element. The first two will be about the same as the SU8 and SH8 the second should be about $350.
3. IFI micro iDSD Black label: which should run about $599. 
4. The upcoming March Dac with Massdrop 789 amp (i was working nights when the drop was still available, saw it, decided to go to sleep, and then when I work up, the drop ended back in late december. Hopefully massdrop makes it a permanently available product soon. 
5. Monopricce THX Desktop Headphone dac/amp with dual THX 788 as oppose to Massdrops 789. It's ~$500
6 SMSL SU8 or JDS El DAC with MassDrop 789 which should be about $600
7. Audio dg r2r 11 for $350, or NFB-11.38 for $450
8. PS Audio Sprout 100 for $599
9. RME ADI-2 DAC for $1100 using it stock without an additional AMP
10. RME ADI-2 DAC with Massdrop 789 for $1450. 
11. Chord Qutest with Massdrop 789 AMP for $2250

A lot of choices, organized relatively speaking from cheapest to most expensive. Up to 9 is fairly reasonable, above 10 in stretching it. 11 would have to justify the cost. 

Thank you.


----------



## westyjeff

The more I use and get to know the RME DAC, the more items go up for sale.


----------



## Euphonik

westyjeff said:


> The more I use and get to know the RME DAC, the more items go up for sale.



Can't even decide...


----------



## Euphonik




----------



## JerkChicken

Euphonik said:


>


Sweet rig.

Where did you get that soft pad?


----------



## Euphonik

JerkChicken said:


> Sweet rig.
> 
> Where did you get that soft pad?



It's one of those oversized velour-like drawstring pouches that some IEMS come with; I can't remember what came in it as I have too much gear, lol. I slid it over the cradle so if it bumped the D50 it wouldn't scratch the anodized metal housing. 

Both are exceptionally good DACs- excellent clarity, definition and features; at this point neither leave me wanting anything else


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

Comparing this dac to my mytek brooklyn dac+, I must say that adi-2 dac though more forgiving with poor records lacks some highend technicalities like soundstage  and 3d presentation and i could also hear 2nd harmonic distortion


----------



## alphanumerix1

whats the d50 for? comparisons?


----------



## Phoniac

Emmanuel Palmer said:


> Comparing this dac to my mytek brooklyn dac+, I must say that adi-2 dac though more forgiving with poor records lacks some highend technicalities like soundstage  and 3d presentation and i could also hear 2nd harmonic distortion



And why you don't send it back for service then? Distortion is so low it is hard to measure, and absolutely impossible to hear - unless the unit is broken.


----------



## Euphonik

alphanumerix1 said:


> whats the d50 for? comparisons?



Pretty much. Lately I'm focusing on the IEM output with the Legend X- I perceived a slight difference in smoothness in contrast to the D50/AAA...other than that I don't think I could tell them apart, at least in my limited listening experience (if ever). Eventually I'll set it up on my desktop to replace the O2DAC.


----------



## Deftone

Euphonik said:


> Pretty much. Lately I'm focusing on the IEM output with the Legend X- I perceived a slight difference in smoothness in contrast to the D50/AAA...other than that I don't think I could tell them apart, at least in my limited listening experience (if ever). Eventually I'll set it up on my desktop to replace the O2DAC.



what are you gonna keep, d50/THX or RME ?


----------



## Euphonik

Deftone said:


> what are you gonna keep, d50/THX or RME ?



Both

If I had to choose, though, I'd keep the ADI-2 for my main use and THX AAA for instances where more power is needed; it's nice to have separate components that can be easily upgraded/replaced. In addition, the digital volume control in particular is really nice as well as the feature set. With that being said, I'm still very satisfied with the D50/THX AAA combo- you really can't go wrong either way.


----------



## bgbkt

Has anyone tried running Focal Clear using RME ADI-2 DAC? Is that a good match?


----------



## JKDJedi

JerkChicken said:


> As a company catered to professional studio production I’d expect it to be that way. You can eq the sound curve as you like from my understanding.


I concur, if you like your amps warm, you can do that with this DAC.


----------



## JKDJedi

Euphonik said:


>


Im just curious...Did you get the THX on a Zeos reference by chance? I'm almost there myself...just want/need to grab the RME first, it would/will/could be the end game for me, I'm already checking what might go in its replacement, 2 headphones and an amp..sounds like a good movie..


----------



## Mrstump5

Adi 2 vs yggy a2?????


----------



## Euphonik

JKDJedi said:


> Im just curious...Did you get the THX on a Zeos reference by chance?



Nope, I saw a review on ASR about how well it measured and made an impulse buy- same for everything else in the stack, lol. I believe the ADI-2 could be a "one and done" depending on your requirements.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Euphonik said:


> Nope, I saw a review on ASR about how well it measured and made an impulse buy- same for everything else in the stack, lol. I believe the ADI-2 could be a "one and done" depending on your requirements.



One and Done - Absolutely the conclusion that I came to since all my headphones are easy to drive and I don’t want to go balanced. Saving impressive amounts of time no longer reading/watching reviews about other units.


----------



## JKDJedi

CaptainFantastic said:


> One and Done - Absolutely the conclusion that I came to since all my headphones are easy to drive and I don’t want to go balanced. Saving impressive amounts of time no longer reading/watching reviews about other units.


Enough power for my group of cans? (Signature) I'm almost committed to grabbing one.


----------



## Euphonik (Jan 8, 2019)

JKDJedi said:


> Enough power for my group of cans? (Signature) I'm almost committed to grabbing one.



I'm pretty sure it'll drive practically any headphone you could attach to it. Your HD6XX is 300ohms- ADI-2 will output .3 watts at that level of resistance before clipping (.2 watts are the approximate power handling limit for the HD6XX).

Edit: HE400i can handle a nominal 6W @ 40ohm, you might want a THX AAA in balanced output for that...


----------



## Phoniac

Apply some common sense! That is the maximum allowed power applied to it. It reaches it's maximum sound level long before that. At 1 Watt you run away screaming...

Just because Audeze lists all its headphones with 15 Watts doesn't mean we all have to buy a 6 Watt monster now.


----------



## Deftone

Euphonik said:


> Both
> 
> If I had to choose, though, I'd keep the ADI-2 for my main use and THX AAA for instances where more power is needed; it's nice to have separate components that can be easily upgraded/replaced. In addition, the digital volume control in particular is really nice as well as the feature set. With that being said, I'm still very satisfied with the D50/THX AAA combo- you really can't go wrong either way.



Did you test only using quick AB or long time with one (week or two) and then swapping to another?

I cant detect much differences on quick AB. It was only after soley using Mojo for 7 months then switching to another source it hit me how thick and warm the Mojo is.


----------



## JKDJedi (Jan 9, 2019)

Euphonik said:


> I'm pretty sure it'll drive practically any headphone you could attach to it. Your HD6XX is 300ohms- ADI-2 will output .3 watts at that level of resistance before clipping (.2 watts are the approximate power handling limit for the HD6XX).
> 
> Edit: HE400i can handle a nominal 6W @ 40ohm, you might want a THX AAA in balanced output for that...


No crap...really? The Hifiman 400i can juice 6 watts!?...DyaAAaaamm. I got the Audio-GD 11.28 and that one seems to be on par with the power output of the RME, .3 watts @300ohm, and your right, it's enough juice. I'm very green to Ohms and mW , watts, impedance.. seems like you need a degree almost ;D  but I'm really surprised on the 6 watts for the Hifiman. Thats 6000 mW Gonna dive deep into the manual I downloaded this week, what you guys think of the crossfeed? Edit: just went thru the manual..... MIND BLOWN O.O


----------



## Euphonik

JKDJedi said:


> No ****...really? The Hifiman 400i can juice 6 watts!?...DyaAAaaamm. I got the Audio-GD 11.28 and that one seems to be on par with the power output of the RME, .3 watts @300ohm, and your right, it's enough juice. I'm very green to Ohms and mW , watts, impedance.. seems like you need a degree almost ;D  but I'm really surprised on the 6 watts for the Hifiman. Thats 6000 mW Gonna dive deep into the manual I downloaded this week, what you guys think of the crossfeed?



Phoniac is right, you probably won't need even half the power, though the THX AAA can certainly output a lot. Personally I haven't used it yet, though I tend to enjoy the added reverb/space in a lot of electronic music- eventually I'll have to give it a try, though.



Deftone said:


> Did you test only using quick AB or long time with one (week or two) and then swapping to another?
> 
> I cant detect much differences on quick AB. It was only after soley using Mojo for 7 months then switching to another source it hit me how thick and warm the Mojo is.



I agree, the mojo is somewhat smooth- that's one difference I noticed in contrast to the HiFiMe 9018 portable DAC, though it may not have been the chip but the implementation. I think the AK4490 and 9038 differ subtly, though I haven't listened long enough to both separately yet to know for sure.


----------



## Deftone

Euphonik said:


> Phoniac is right, you probably won't need even half the power, though the THX AAA can certainly output a lot. Personally I haven't used it yet, though I tend to enjoy the added reverb/space in a lot of electronic music- eventually I'll have to give it a try, though.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, the mojo is somewhat smooth- that's one difference I noticed in contrast to the HiFiMe 9018 portable DAC, though it may not have been the chip but the implementation. I think the AK4490 and 9038 differ subtly, though I haven't listened long enough to both separately yet to know for sure.



I have watched several comparison videos that are ADI2 against several other dacs and the ADI2 comes out as really clear in the mid range, if the comparisons are genuine, everything that was put up against it sounded to soft or veiled. Im hoping to get one for my self pretty soon but wont be using the headphone out i will run balanced XLR to my Arcam. 

I love clarity, precision and realism but not at the expense of sounding thin and sterile, so im hoping the arcam will restore balance (If needed). Just like the 660 is the master of balance between musicality and technical ability.


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer (Jan 9, 2019)

bgbkt said:


> Has anyone tried running Focal Clear using RME ADI-2 DAC? Is that a good match?


I bought it to use with my clear it sounded neutral and non fatiguing over long period of listening but it lacks soundstage depth, layering, space, 3d etc for me sounded too intimate and i felt like it was restraining the clears from its capability. I sold it on ebay and lost massively as a matter of fact i just shipped it to the new owner yesterday. Now am using it with the mytek brooklyn dac+ which sounds rich, clean, detailed, wide soundstage, 3d, layering, precision, timing neutral yet without being fatiguing, from time to time when listening it feels like music is coming from the atmosphere rather than the headphone itself. Now I am thinking of adding a tube amp for when i need euphoria. Besides headphonia.Com reviewed it lately and thought it sounded richer than the almighty hugo 2 across the spectrum and i agree.


----------



## oqvist

Emmanuel Palmer said:


> I bought it to use with my clear it sounded neutral and non fatiguing over long period of listening but it lacks soundstage depth, layering, space, 3d etc for me sounded too intimate and i felt like it was restraining the clears from its capability. I sold it on ebay and lost massively as a matter of fact i just shipped it to the new owner yesterday



Isnt it just the focals sound? I dont have the clear I have the elear but even on my trafomatic audio head One tube amp its soundstage is quite in your your head. HD 800s have superb 3d soundstage with the adi-2 plus THX AAA 789. Just appears right not hollow and has depth.

Just adi-2 as amp I have not sent much time with but the elear hade similar traits there.


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

oqvist said:


> Isnt it just the focals sound? I dont have the clear I have the elear but even on my trafomatic audio head One tube amp its soundstage is quite in your your head. HD 800s have superb 3d soundstage with the adi-2 plus THX AAA 789. Just appears right not hollow and has depth.
> 
> Just adi-2 as amp I have not sent much time with but the elear hade similar traits there.


I know the focals are not known for soundstage but at least a dac/amp that can help a little with its weaknesses is not a bad idea. Nb: my impression with the clears and adi2 was without an external amp since that was exactly what he asked for


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Hello fellow RME ADI-2 DAC companions.
question, am i able to use dual male balanced xlr in the back of the ADI-2 DAC as a headphone cable source?







basically plug this in the back, and then get a dual female adapter 4.4 to 2.5(or 4.4) and then plug in balanced headphones into that.

would the sound be compromised because of the adapters and not being direct?
would it work and power the balanced headphones properly? or is this only for speakers :S would it be too much power?


----------



## EDN80

CaptainFantastic said:


> My ADI-2 arrived today. What an experience. A lot of literature to go through to get going. Enjoying all the functionalities, learning about the filters and other options. The analyzer is even nicer than expected as an aesthetic bonus (and informational, why not).
> 
> My unit came loaded with firmware version 21. I see that there is a newer one from November. I downloaded the file and even after reboots, nothing happens when I click on the .exe file fut_mfusb3.exe. Has anyone else had this issue?



Reading through the thread and interested in your input since I recently aquired the LCD-MX4 and got rid of my OPPO HA-1 to pair with my SPL PHONITOR 2 amp. Getting a new DAC and hesitating between the RME and the LKS AUDIO MH-DA004, which, they say, probably has the best possible sound @ $1200-$1400. The RME only has a mid-range AK chip, though greatly implemented, compared to dual Sabre ESS flagship chips for the LKS. The RME is also more versatile. How does it pair with the MX4?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

EDN80 said:


> Reading through the thread and interested in your input since I recently aquired the LCD-MX4 and got rid of my OPPO HA-1 to pair with my SPL PHONITOR 2 amp. Getting a new DAC and hesitating between the RME and the LKS AUDIO MH-DA004, which, they say, probably has the best possible sound @ $1200-$1400. The RME only has a mid-range AK chip, though greatly implemented, compared to dual Sabre ESS flagship chips for the LKS. The RME is also more versatile. How does it pair with the MX4?



I don't have a wealth of experience with DACs. But I did a fair bit of research and started with the Grace Design m900. I really like the nice, clean sound that allows me to enjoy the impact and superb sound quality of the MX4. I still use this DAC at work. The advice on HeadFi was (but not specific to the MX4), if I remember correctly, that the RME ADI-2 would not improve the SQ, just add features. Well, it turns out that for the MX4 the ADI-2 must be a great pairing, because I heard the improved sound quality immediately. 

Some reviews, while singing its praises otherwise, say that the MX4 has lackluster scaling (https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audeze-lcd-mx4.23106/reviews). Maybe staying with a mid-range chip but really well implemented is the sweet spot? Just a theory. I haven't tried DACs with high-range chips as you describe the LKS to be. If you get a chance to try both, I would like to hear your conclusions.

In any case, MX4 with ADI-2 is an unbelievable experience for me.


----------



## tlrobinson

Tsukuyomi said:


> Hello fellow RME ADI-2 DAC companions.
> question, am i able to use dual male balanced xlr in the back of the ADI-2 DAC as a headphone cable source?
> 
> 
> ...



No, those outputs are not amplified, they are for outputting line level signal to another amplifier.


----------



## EDN80

CaptainFantastic said:


> I don't have a wealth of experience with DACs. But I did a fair bit of research and started with the Grace Design m900. I really like the nice, clean sound that allows me to enjoy the impact and superb sound quality of the MX4. I still use this DAC at work. The advice on HeadFi was (but not specific to the MX4), if I remember correctly, that the RME ADI-2 would not improve the SQ, just add features. Well, it turns out that for the MX4 the ADI-2 must be a great pairing, because I heard the improved sound quality immediately.
> 
> Some reviews, while singing its praises otherwise, say that the MX4 has lackluster scaling (https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audeze-lcd-mx4.23106/reviews). Maybe staying with a mid-range chip but really well implemented is the sweet spot? Just a theory. I haven't tried DACs with high-range chips as you describe the LKS to be. If you get a chance to try both, I would like to hear your conclusions.
> 
> In any case, MX4 with ADI-2 is an unbelievable experience for me.



I'm glad that you're liking the combo. The price alone for all that it does, makes it quite an attractive proposition. Reviews are stellar across the board and it's easy to find pretty much everywhere, from Amazon to B&H and other authorized dealer. Since my SPL Phonitor 2 is German too and aimed at the pro, rather than audiophile market, these two could make quite a nifty combo.

I did hear that the MX4 doesn't scale as well as others, I do find that it isn't so, at least now that I'm feeding it only through a Nuforce Icon HDP while I look for a new DAC. Obviously not as resolving as my previous HA-1/Phonitor 2 combo. So, who knows? That's why I'm leaning more towards the LKS as of now, because those dual SABRE ES9038PROs sound superb from all the reviews I read. Aprroaching Dave! Plus, it's not bad to look at...


----------



## technobear

Tsukuyomi said:


> Hello fellow RME ADI-2 DAC companions.
> question, am i able to use dual male balanced xlr in the back of the ADI-2 DAC as a headphone cable source?
> 
> 
> ...


Balanced line outs done to pro audio standards will drive a 600 ohm load (but no less) so you could use a beyerdynamic T1 that way.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

tlrobinson said:


> No, those outputs are not amplified, they are for outputting line level signal to another amplifier.


Thanks for the info


----------



## tekkster

oqvist said:


> Isnt it just the focals sound? I dont have the clear I have the elear but even on my trafomatic audio head One tube amp its soundstage is quite in your your head. HD 800s have superb 3d soundstage with the adi-2 plus THX AAA 789. Just appears right not hollow and has depth.
> 
> Just adi-2 as amp I have not sent much time with but the elear hade similar traits there.



I tested the Clear on the ADI-2 and it sounded pretty good.  I changed the filter to SD Slow and futzed with the equalizer and while the sound stage did not improve (very hard to do with Focal headphones), the sound was far better than too flat and boring.

There are some neutrality tendencies with both the ADI-2 and the Clear, so on a flat eq, I agree that the Clear doesn't really shine in this setup.


----------



## Arniesb

tekkster said:


> I tested the Clear on the ADI-2 and it sounded pretty good.  I changed the filter to SD Slow and futzed with the equalizer and while the sound stage did not improve (very hard to do with Focal headphones), the sound was far better than too flat and boring.
> 
> There are some neutrality tendencies with both the ADI-2 and the Clear, so on a flat eq, I agree that the Clear doesn't really shine in this setup.


Its always the case with cheap built in amps... Many dac/amps i tried have bad amps... Cheap op amps, Cheap caps in a signal path, underenginered power supply etc. I dont think dac is the problem... Just try better amp.
My Violectric V280 blow away Topping Dx 7 dac/amp. Dac isnt bad at all though.


----------



## Phoniac

Arniesb said:


> Cheap op amps, Cheap caps in a signal path, underenginered power supply etc.



Fortunately none of what you list relates to the ADI-2 DAC. Expensive op amps - check. No cap in signal path - check. Oversized power supply  - check.



Arniesb said:


> Many dac/amps i tried have bad amps...



Then get yourself the one from this thread's title, might change your view..



Arniesb said:


> My Violectric V280 blow away Topping Dx 7 dac/amp.



Output impedance 10 Ohms unbalanced, 20 Ohms balanced - not astonished...


----------



## Arniesb

Phoniac said:


> Fortunately none of what you list relates to the ADI-2 DAC. Expensive op amps - check. No cap in signal path - check. Oversized power supply  - check.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol i tried pro version... Nothing impressive. Single ended sound worse than topping dx7 balanced. Dac is good, amp is very average... balaced is not bad thou Beyerdynamic a20 is better too than single ended aka adi 2. Good amp with switched power supply with few hundred bucks parts never gonna happen...


----------



## Phoniac

Yeah, sure. Now that your objective arguments are gone it's back to subjective audiophoolism...


----------



## Arniesb

Phoniac said:


> Yeah, sure. Now that your objective arguments are gone it's back to subjective audiophoolism...


What i liked dac... Even as a dac its worth it easily, just saying amp is nothing impressive. i might even buy 1 cause dac is great, even better than 2qute i tried few times. If youre try better amps you will see.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Jan 12, 2019)

Arniesb said:


> What i liked dac... Even as a dac its worth it easily, just saying amp is nothing impressive. i might even buy 1 cause dac is great, even better than 2qute i tried few times. If youre try better amps you will see.



Agree, depends on the headphones you have whether the amp section will be okay. The amp section is good technically but just doesn't sync well with certain headphones. Fostex TH-X00 series are such headphones that just don't like the amp of the ADI-2 DAC... they sound thin and overal lacking with it, loosing their fullness and bass. The Campfire Audio Cascade syncs really well with the ADI-2 DAC on the other hand and doesn't like the amps the TH-X00 prefers.

I didn't really get the ADI-2 DAC for it's amp section being it's for my STAX rig.


----------



## Giacomino

Hi, I did AB with the Burson V2 + HD800S headphones which is a great dac-ampli powerful with the saber 9018, as iMac source with Audirvana album in DSD and PCM, I did not expect such a power from the small RME in Hi- power, I was struck by the silence of Adi2, difficult to explain in words, yes the clear silence between the various instruments and voice of De Andrè for example, then has a crazy resolution and neutrality never heard for now, I listened to 2 months ago Chord Hugo2 and was equal as a dac to my Burson but could not make the full potential of the 800S as power, I can not understand how they could have managed to build and the price of this little ADI-2.

My ranking:

1 RME ADI-2 dac

2 Burson conductor V2 +

3 Chord Hugo 2


----------



## tekkster

Giacomino said:


> Hi, I did AB with the Burson V2 + HD800S headphones which is a great dac-ampli powerful with the saber 9018, as iMac source with Audirvana album in DSD and PCM, I did not expect such a power from the small RME in Hi- power, I was struck by the silence of Adi2, difficult to explain in words, yes the clear silence between the various instruments and voice of De Andrè for example, then has a crazy resolution and neutrality never heard for now, I listened to 2 months ago Chord Hugo2 and was equal as a dac to my Burson but could not make the full potential of the 800S as power, I can not understand how they could have managed to build and the price of this little ADI-2.
> 
> My ranking:
> 
> ...



The H2 needs an external amp for difficult to power headphones for sure.  I run the H2 through the iFi Pro iCan.  The ADI-2 headphones jacks are definitely better than the H2.  I agree with you that the high-power mode on the ADI-2 is very good.  I also run the ADI-2 through the iCan Pro sometimes, but not because of any power issue, more to get different sound profile flavors.  In fact, right now, I'm running the ADI-2 straight to my T1 without the iCan Pro.  Also, generally, I run the ADI-2 straight to the KSE1200.


----------



## Quinto

Just got my RME ADI-2 DAC and listening now to my good old AKG K501 with some EQ for extra bass..Keith Jarrett Trio sounds very impressive, I was surprised by the (high) power outputn and the smallness of the thing itself..So glad it sounds good, otherwise I would feel conned 

The menu will take me some getting used to but it works great with my new PC speakers, the SWAN MK200mkIII, only the volume knob on those kinda sucks..also the RME's neutrality works great with the slight tubish signature of the speakers.

Does anyone know if the sound will change some over time?


----------



## Deftone

tekkster said:


> The H2 needs an external amp for difficult to power headphones for sure.  I run the H2 through the iFi Pro iCan.  The ADI-2 headphones jacks are definitely better than the H2.  I agree with you that the high-power mode on the ADI-2 is very good.  I also run the ADI-2 through the iCan Pro sometimes, but not because of any power issue, more to get different sound profile flavors.  In fact, right now, I'm running the ADI-2 straight to my T1 without the iCan Pro.  Also, generally, I run the ADI-2 straight to the KSE1200.



You could just use any amp you like with hugo 2 anyway even if your phones dont need a lot of power to add a bit of flavour, possibly smoothness or warmth.


----------



## tekkster

Deftone said:


> You could just use any amp you like with hugo 2 anyway even if your phones dont need a lot of power to add a bit of flavour, possibly smoothness or warmth.



True true.


----------



## Litlgi74

Does anyone have experience using this DAC with an android device running UAPP? Don't really want to open the unit if it doesn't work with android.

Can someone test it for me?

Thanks


----------



## bwcgrx

Litlgi74 said:


> Does anyone have experience using this DAC with an android device running UAPP? Don't really want to open the unit if it doesn't work with android.
> 
> Can someone test it for me?
> 
> Thanks



It works with my Pioneer Android DAP.  I can’t speak to UAPP but the Pioneer audio App sends audio bit perfect to the RME.  You will need an OTG cable with the proper connector for your Android device and a USB B device connector on the RME end.  I picked mine up on Amazon for about $6.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jan 20, 2019)

bwcgrx said:


> It works with my Pioneer Android DAP.  I can’t speak to UAPP but the Pioneer audio App sends audio bit perfect to the RME.  You will need an OTG cable with the proper connector for your Android device and a USB B device connector on the RME end.  I picked mine up on Amazon for about $6.



Thanks for the reply... I plan on using a Zidoo X9S as my source. Not sure if I will need a an OTG cable. I didn't need one when connecting the Zidoo to my Oppo HA-2SE. I might be able to get away with just an USB A-Male to B-Male cable.

The seller I purchased the DAC from doesn't seem to think it will work with Android... So I am a little afraid to open the packaging and find out.

Thanks


----------



## mixman

I would love to get one of these, but I would like to incorporate this into my music studio setup,  I would need to piggyback my audio interface with this. Want to go from the optical out of my interface into the optical in of the RME so that I am using the DA converters of the RME only. Would Windows 10 recognize both units and would this setup work at all?


----------



## Slaphead (Jan 20, 2019)

mixman said:


> I would love to get one of these, but I would like to incorporate this into my music studio setup,  I would need to piggyback my audio interface with this. Want to go from the optical out of my interface into the optical in of the RME so that I am using the DA converters of the RME only. Would Windows 10 recognize both units and would this setup work at all?



If understand correctly you want to go from PC -> Audio interface via USB, and then from Audio Interface -> ADI-2 DAC via optical?

If so then Windows would not recognise, nor need to recognise the ADI-2, as it would be being fed an optical signal. An optical signal is simply piped out and requires no acknowledgement on the part of the receiver. Windows would only recognise your audio interface, and not what happens thereafter in the chain.

Yes, as described, the setup should theoretically work.


----------



## mixman

Slaphead said:


> If understand correctly you want to go from PC -> Audio interface via USB, and then from Audio Interface -> ADI-2 DAC via optical?
> 
> If so then Windows would not recognise, nor need to recognise the ADI-2, as it would be being fed an optical signal. An optical signal is simply piped out and requires no acknowledgement on the part of the receiver. Windows would only recognise your audio interface, and not what happens thereafter in the chain.
> 
> Yes, as described, the setup should theoretically work.



Basically, my musical equipment will go into the interface, then the digital output of the interface will go into the digital input of the DAC and the output of the DAC will go to my cans and speakers. The concept is to use the DAC/RME to convey the best quality sounds via my cans and speakers since a really good AD/DA interface alone, such as the higher end RMEs or Apogees would be over twice as much and might not have as good an HP amp in it.


----------



## cardeli22

Litlgi74 said:


> Does anyone have experience using this DAC with an android device running UAPP? Don't really want to open the unit if it doesn't work with android.
> 
> Can someone test it for me?
> 
> Thanks


I quickly tried my LGv30, via OTG and the stock music app, to my RME ADI 2 DAC and worked just fine. I do not have UAPP on my phone. I see no reason why it wouldn't work with UAPP.


----------



## Litlgi74

cardeli22 said:


> I quickly tried my LGv30, via OTG and the stock music app, to my RME ADI 2 DAC and worked just fine. I do not have UAPP on my phone. I see no reason why it wouldn't work with UAPP.



Thanks so much...I appreciate you trying it out.  It's killing me not to open this new DAC.

Hopefully RME will get back with me tomorrow about any limitations when connecting an Android to their device.


----------



## technobear

Litlgi74 said:


> Hopefully RME will get back with me tomorrow about any limitations when connecting an Android to their device.


All they can tell you is that ADI2-DAC is fully USB Audio Class 2 compliant and it should work.

You've already proved that your set top box is compliant by using it with an Oppo HA-2SE.

It should just work, however there are no cast iron guarantees where Android is concerned.

It is highly unlikely that you will find someone on here who has this set top box and an ADI2-DAC so you are just going to have to try it for yourself.

If it doesn't work over USB (highly unlikely), then you could just use the optical connection instead.

EDIT: and no, you won't need an OTG cable. Others were assuming the device was a phone.


----------



## pororom

Hi guys
I currently have a dac / amp Arcam irdac 2 (sabre ES9016K2M) paired with Denon AH-7200 (impedance 25 omhs - sensitivity 105 dB / mW).
I listen through Audirvana 3 with izotope and upsampling of 24/192.
The result is not entirely satisfactory since I have acute wheezing and background noise.
I attribute it to the high sensitivity of the Denon and the construction of the Arcam ...
Do you think that it could have a noticeable improvement with the ADI using the output of iems and some of the filters?
I would not stop to configure equalizer and other parameters because I am very clumsy with this type of applications.
Thank you


----------



## technobear

pororom said:


> Hi guys
> I currently have a dac / amp Arcam irdac 2 (sabre ES9016K2M) paired with Denon AH-7200 (impedance 25 omhs - sensitivity 105 dB / mW).
> I listen through Audirvana 3 with izotope and upsampling of 24/192.
> The result is not entirely satisfactory since I have acute wheezing and background noise.
> ...


Does the noise stop when you put the computer to sleep?

Sounds like a problem I am also having with noise when the computer is on. I'm having the problem with a power amp (the ADI2-DAC is dead silent) but I have managed to establish that the noise is travelling through the mains, probably on the ground.

Something to try is to get an extension lead and plug your Arcam into a socket far away from the computer socket. See if the noise diminishes.

I have done this but it didn't solve the problem completely so I now looking at mains filters.

It is also possible that the noise is coming via USB if your USB cable isn't very good. An iPurifier2 or iPurifier3 would put a stop to that.

Having said all that, the ADI2-DAC seems to be immune to this.


----------



## pororom

technobear said:


> Does the noise stop when you put the computer to sleep?
> 
> Sounds like a problem I am also having with noise when the computer is on. I'm having the problem with a power amp (the ADI2-DAC is dead silent) but I have managed to establish that the noise is travelling through the mains, probably on the ground.
> 
> ...



Hello and thanks you for your observations.
The source is a mini mac and the sockets are separated.
The USB cable is a Starlight 7 USB 2.0.
My thoughts go more towards the output power of the Arcam and the great sensitivity of the Denon AH-7200 (it is heard with fewer artifacts connected to my Galaxy S8 with the Hiby Music playback software).
The Ifi purifier I thought it is an additional option to consider, but I would like to start with a remarkable improvement with the Dac / Amp (hence my possible interest in the ADI) 
I prefer a Dac / Amp before a combo for space reasons ...
Look at the Arcam specifications, to see if this helps us find the problem:https://www.arcam.co.uk/products,rSeries,USB-DAC,irdacii.htm#techspecs


----------



## technobear

pororom said:


> Hello and thanks you for your observations.
> The source is a mini mac and the sockets are separated.
> The USB cable is a Starlight 7 USB 2.0.
> My thoughts go more towards the output power of the Arcam and the great sensitivity of the Denon AH-7200 (it is heard with fewer artifacts connected to my Galaxy S8 with the Hiby Music playback software).
> ...


I use T1, T5p and LCD-X, all around 102dB/mW and all totally silent with the ADI2-DAC (from either output).

The Arcam should be silent too looking at its specs.

Just to be sure, you aren't turning the volume up to maximum and being surprised you hear noise are you? You are hearing this at the same volume settings you listen at?

Perhaps you could say a bit more about the unwanted noises you are hearing. Are we just talking hiss here? Does the sound change in any way if you plug a mouse into the Mac and start moving it around. That would be a sure giveaway as to the source (happens here with my power amp - I hear a buzzing as soon as the mouse moves).


----------



## pororom

technobear said:


> I use T1, T5p and LCD-X, all around 102dB/mW and all totally silent with the ADI2-DAC (from either output).
> 
> The Arcam should be silent too looking at its specs.
> 
> ...



It's as if the sound is congested, adding the background whistle you mention ...


----------



## Bart147

Has anybody used the RME ADI-2 DAC as pre amp in their main stereo system ?
I recently bought the Quad Vena II integrated amp based on the positive reviews and while it's good enough  I'm not fond of the synergy with my KEF LS-50 . 
From a flexibilty view point I've decided to go down the DAC/Pre amp + power amp route , to this end I bought a used Audiolab M-PWR amp and I've narrowed my DAC/AMP list to either the Audiolab M-DAC + or the  RME ADI-2 DAC . 
Q1 : can anybody comment on the audio quality connected via XLR out to a power amp in their main system  ?
Q2 : I've read that , purely based on SQ , the RME ADI-2 DAC is a step up from the M-DAC+ : can anybody confirm this ? 
Thanks in advance !


----------



## VRacer-111 (Jan 24, 2019)

Bart147 said:


> Has anybody used the RME ADI-2 DAC as pre amp in their main stereo system ?
> I recently bought the Quad Vena II integrated amp based on the positive reviews and while it's good enough  I'm not fond of the synergy with my KEF LS-50 .
> From a flexibilty view point I've decided to go down the DAC/Pre amp + power amp route , to this end I bought a used Audiolab M-PWR amp and I've narrowed my DAC/AMP list to either the Audiolab M-DAC + or the  RME ADI-2 DAC .
> Q1 : can anybody comment on the audio quality connected via XLR out to a power amp in their main system  ?
> ...



That's how mine is used half the time... paired with a NAD C275BEE stereo amp which drives both my STAX SR-L300 Limiteds and Polk RTi A5 mains. I'm only running single ended not balanced though... because it's not an amp with balanced inputs. It is the best the C275BEE has ever sounded in my system... bass is absolutely best its been in extension, impact, and fullness, midbass punch is very impactful. Mids/vocals are incredibly forward, clean, and full sounding. Highs are as detailed and clear as ever with most energetic sound they've had yet still somewhat smooth. Works well in my setup.

Have used the Gustard X20U, Audioquest DFR, and lower/midlevel home theater components previously.


----------



## albertmuc

Use the RME Adi-2 Dac for my Beyerdynamic T1 and the symmetrical output as a pre amp to drive a power amplifier, with the sonic result, I am very satisfied. No idea if it fits in any case, I would highly recommend a try.


----------



## cobrabucket (Jan 26, 2019)

Hey guys. Long, rambling, detailed question to follow: I currently use 2 different DACs 1. SMSL SU-8 for Hi-Res and DSD and 2. Schiit Modi Multibit [Mimby] for 16 bit. I have BH Crack Tube amp, a Stax srm-t1 electrostatic tube amp and a THX 789. The nicest phones I own are the Koss 950, followed by Sennheiser 6XX and Argon Mk3. I want to know if you think it would be worth it to upgade my DAC. Ideally, I'd like to use 1 DAC for everything. I have heard videos comparing a Chord Qutest with RME ADI DAC2 and really like the thicker, fuller sound of the Qutest. How similar does the 2Cute sound to the Qutest? Would the Denafrips ARES be good at the Hi-Res audio? I know it could play it, just like the Mimby can play Hi-Res, but the Mimby doesn't really seem to give it anything "special" above that for technological reason I can't explain but have seen people discuss on the Mimby thread here. I think I saw somewhere that the ARES uses a 20-bit ladder. Is this right? If so, does that mean it would have diminishing reurns when dealing with Hi-Res PCM? Someone mentioned I might like the Ifi Micro iDSD BL, but it comes with an amp and I don't really need an extra amp. Someone else said the RME ADI2 DAC would be a good fit, but it also has an amp that I don't seem to need and in the videos referenced above, the Qutest seemed to sound better to me. Also seen someone saying SMSL VMV D1 should be considered. I do like the nice multibit bass sound of the Mimby but also like the clean, detailed sound of the SU-8. Maybe there is a best of both worlds? Would any of this even matter at the Mid-Fi level of equipment I am at? Would I be better served by saving up to get some upgraded phones [Aeolus, HD820 or Stax L700]? My head is spinning. I want it all, but must choose wisely. Need Guidance... Thanks!


----------



## Bart147

VRacer-111 said:


> That's how mine is used half the time... paired with a NAD C275BEE stereo amp which drives both my STAX SR-L300 Limiteds and Polk RTi A5 mains. I'm only running single ended not balanced though... because it's not an amp with balanced inputs. It is the best the C275BEE has ever sounded in my system... bass is absolutely best its been in extension, impact, and fullness, midbass punch is very impactful. Mids/vocals are incredibly forward, clean, and full sounding. Highs are as detailed and clear as ever with most energetic sound they've had yet still somewhat smooth. Works well in my setup.
> 
> Have used the Gustard X20U, Audioquest DFR, and lower/midlevel home theater components previously.


I took the plunge and ordered the RME ADI-2 DAC , if I get home in time I should have both on monday evening . I'll use it mainly as pre-amp connected via Procab REF710 XLR to my  Audiolab M-PWR amp.


----------



## MikeW

cobrabucket said:


> Hey guys. Long, rambling, detailed question to follow: I currently use 2 different DACs 1. SMSL SU-8 for Hi-Res and DSD and 2. Schiit Modi Multibit [Mimby] for 16 bit. I have BH Crack Tube amp, a Stax srm-t1 electrostatic tube amp and a THX 789. The nicest phones I own are the Koss 950, followed by Sennheiser 6XX and Argon Mk3. I want to know if you think it would be worth it to upgade my DAC. Ideally, I'd like to use 1 DAC for everything. I have heard videos comparing a Chord Qutest with RME ADI DAC2 and really like the thicker, fuller sound of the Qutest. How similar does the 2Cute sound to the Qutest? Would the Denafrips ARES be good at the Hi-Res audio? I know it could play it, just like the Mimby can play Hi-Res, but the Mimby doesn't really seem to give it anything "special" above that for technological reason I can't explain but have seen people discuss on the Mimby thread here. I think I saw somewhere that the ARES uses a 20-bit ladder. Is this right? If so, does that mean it would have diminishing reurns when dealing with Hi-Res PCM? Someone mentioned I might like the Ifi Micro iDSD BL, but it comes with an amp and I don't really need an extra amp. Someone else said the RME ADI2 DAC would be a good fit, but it also has an amp that I don't seem to need and in the videos referenced above, the Qutest seemed to sound better to me. Also seen someone saying SMSL VMV D1 should be considered. I do like the nice multibit bass sound of the Mimby but also like the clean, detailed sound of the SU-8. Maybe there is a best of both worlds? Would any of this even matter at the Mid-Fi level of equipment I am at? Would I be better served by saving up to get some upgraded phones [Aeolus, HD820 or Stax L700]? My head is spinning. I want it all, but must choose wisely. Need Guidance... Thanks!



Your a little manic my friend. Slow down a bit. Breathe. 

I recommend the adi-2 under the condition you use it’s EQ. In my opinion it’s the main reason to own this Dac, a killer feature if you will. While it won’t completely capture multi bit sound, you will find much range in the tonality of the adi-2 when using its EQ.


----------



## captblaze

just ordered the non pro FS version. using it to anchor my near field system.

my system isn't too complicated. Custom PC>DAC>Class D Amp>KEF LS50 or Wharfedale Dentons depending on my mood. I own a slew of HP also. My #1 HP Is a set of HD800S. I do have some 600 ohm BD880 that I am hoping come alive (not owning anything that makes them really sing)

Jazz / R&B / Prog Rock are my preferred genres with a minor in Classical

not looking for any sound comparisons, but more some info on initial setup and any issues during that phase. I have the manual in .pdf format, but as comprehensive as it appears, I am always looking for first hand knowledge and experience.


----------



## Luckbad

The manual is comprehensive.

The main thing is to tried on Hi-Power mode on the headphone out if you're using those cans directly from the RME.

If you have Windows 10, you can plug and play. Drivers are only really needed for ASIO. Some people said they got dropouts with the RME driver but not the default Windows driver.


----------



## MikeW

I got my finger on the trigger for the DAC FS model myself. I really want a device with hardware EQ. Would use to drive LSR 305 and HD650, and would replace my JOT/Bifrost. With perhaps an upgrade later down the line to a decent tube amp. My room could use some EQ for monitor's and im a big believer in the power of EQ done right. The only thing that gives me pause is Marv/Purrin's thoughts, he really hated this device! Hardly any negative feedback other then his. FYI the best new deal i'f found on this item is by making offer's on ebay, some vendor's sell these units brand new and will accept less then full price. I have an accepted offer for 999$ right now. You can also order straight from RME in germany, if you create a  "Friends of RME" account though there website you can get a significant discount. Drops the price in USD to 913$ plus 48$ to ship to USA. Cheapest i've found, but you'll have to deal with a long 2-3 week ship time.


----------



## Luckbad

You can safely ignore Marv on the ADI-2 DAC and form your own impressions. He listensed for seconds (maybe minutes) with only stock settings using the integrated amp out. The DAC is better than the Amp (your Jot would be better than the amp in the unit). He gets stupid about some things plus he doesn't have the time to read manual pron and figure out how to use it.

You ought to be buying from someone with a return policy anyway, so if you hate it, no big deal.


----------



## MikeW (Jan 27, 2019)

I'd rather buy a used one, but im impatient. There are certain things about my Jot/Bifrost that I don't like, and I can't identify if they are the DAC or the AMP. I think it's the JOT im not digging. There is a type of "Compression" to the sound that I really don't care for. I want a more "Wide open" sound. I think this might be a voice choice schiit makes with their gear and it makes me hesitant to try more of their amps, really want to try a LYR3 too but am afraid I won't like it if if exhibits any of this behavior. In most other regards the JOT's pretty good, I don't much care for it's Pre-out's either. Im hoping the RME will adress all these things I don't like about my current setup. Should be a great pre-amp for driving monitor's and a serviceable head-amp until I can get something else, while hopefully eliminating this compression I don't care for.

Not sure how much head-amp I should be looking for to significantly  better the RME. People compared it to the ATOM/Magni 3 and said don't bother, it's as good or better, and only slightly worse then a THX 789. That means you need a solid 500$+ amp to be a significant bump up.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jan 27, 2019)

captblaze said:


> not looking for any sound comparisons, but more some info on initial setup and any issues during that phase. I have the manual in .pdf format, but as comprehensive as it appears, I am always looking for first hand knowledge and experience.



I just got mine set up today... I was very concerned, and thought I made a big mistake with this purchase. I hooked it up to my Zidoo X9S media player via USB and powered it on... It sounded like total garbage! I tried turning the DAC off and on, unplugged it, reconnected it to the media player... Nothing fixed the problem. It took me a while to figure out I must have inadvertently hit the number 1 button on the remote... setting the sound to the headphones to mono. Another press of the number 1 set everything back to stereo. Phewwww!

It probably goes against the grain here... but I really like loudness set to on.

PS... I got mine on eBay for $999... it came drop shipped from synthax.com


----------



## captblaze

Litlgi74 said:


> I just got mine set up today... I was very concerned, and thought I made a big mistake with this purchase. I hooked it up to my Zidoo X9S media player via USB and powered it on... It sounded like total garbage! I tried turning the DAC off and on, unplugged it, reconnected it to the media player... Nothing fixed the problem. It took me a while to figure out I must have inadvertently hit the number 1 button on the remote... setting the sound to the headphones to mono. Another press of the number 1 set everything back to stereo. Phewwww!
> 
> It probably goes against the grain here... but I really like loudness set to on.
> 
> PS... I got mine on eBay for $999... it came drop shipped from synthax.com



now that is what I am looking for.. real world experience. I truly appreciate hearing about your experience and will keep it in mind while I go through the setup procedure


----------



## emrelights1973

So Anyone compare this to Qutest/Tt2?


----------



## bwcgrx

MikeW said:


> I got my finger on the trigger for the DAC FS model myself. I really want a device with hardware EQ. Would use to drive LSR 305 and HD650, and would replace my JOT/Bifrost. With perhaps an upgrade later down the line to a decent tube amp. My room could use some EQ for monitor's and im a big believer in the power of EQ done right. The only thing that gives me pause is Marv/Purrin's thoughts, he really hated this device! Hardly any negative feedback other then his. FYI the best new deal i'f found on this item is by making offer's on ebay, some vendor's sell these units brand new and will accept less then full price. I have an accepted offer for 999$ right now. You can also order straight from RME in germany, if you create a  "Friends of RME" account though there website you can get a significant discount. Drops the price in USD to 913$ plus 48$ to ship to USA. Cheapest i've found, but you'll have to deal with a long 2-3 week ship time.






Luckbad said:


> You can safely ignore Marv on the ADI-2 DAC and form your own impressions. He listensed for seconds (maybe minutes) with only stock settings using the integrated amp out. The DAC is better than the Amp (your Jot would be better than the amp in the unit). He gets stupid about some things plus he doesn't have the time to read manual pron and figure out how to use it.
> 
> You ought to be buying from someone with a return policy anyway, so if you hate it, no big deal.




I agree with Luckbad....

I purchased an ADI-2 DAC about a month ago and I'm now selling my Chord Mojo and Audio-GD R2R11.  It really is that good and perhaps the Mojo and R2R11 really are not as good as the hype.

Anyone who really listens to the ADI-2 and hates it is either deaf or they don't like the fact that it breaks the audiophile myths of the need for concrete slab sized components, expensive pro labeled DAC chips, linear PSUs, and garden hose sized cables.  It's not cheap and I'd never call it a bargain because it is not. No component at this price point is a bargain.  At the end of the day if you want one of the best DACs in terms of performance, measurements, sound and features available, buy the RME.  Anything that measures better is just bragging points on paper.  The control interface is a challenge to master and really could be better but once you get the hang of the layout its fine.  I also think it is nearly as good a headphone amp as it is a DAC.  It should be for $1,100 and it is. I can't speak for the JOT as I've not heard one.  I'm sure a JOT could produce more volume out its balanced outputs but louder does not make better.  Balanced headphone output is overrated anyway.

Best thing about the RME is it has me listening to music more and spending less time looking at new AMPs or DACs to buy.  Its more or less endgame for me for the foreseeable future.  I'm sure some out there will label it mid-fi purgatory.  I guess you need to come up with labels like that to justify some of the mythology that goes around in these circles.

I say if interested buy one from a vendor that allows returns.  Give it a good listen, avoid the smoke and mirrors and see what your ears and ultimately your brain tell you.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@bwcgrx Totally agree. End game.


----------



## MikeW (Jan 28, 2019)

From the impressions I get you'd need to spend 300-400$ to improve upon the head amp built into the RME. THX 789, Gilmore lite MK2, Jotunheim/LYR3. Etc.. I think many people who buy this dac already have a high end headphone amp, and it probably falls short in that comparison so they say it's not great, but are not comparing it to 100-400$ stand alone amps. They are comparing it to 800$+ amps. Also from what I gather, one of the strength's of the built in amp is resolution/detail. So even 300-500$ stand alone amps may better it in other ways, but often don't match it in that regard. I may pair it with a Tube amp later. Then you'd have a ok solid state headamp, and a tube amp, and a good iem amp as well, combined with an excellent pre amp for powered monitors, excellent dac and EQ, with crossfeed. So many great features. 

I do wonder if this could be end game if paired with a high end IEM though.


----------



## Luckbad

MikeW said:


> I do wonder if this could be end game if paired with a high end IEM though.



I've listened to dozens--perhaps over 100--IEMs and eventually landed on Future Sonics MG5 HX customs as my preferred signature. The ADI-2 DAC is indeed endgame for those as far as desk listening is concerned, which is my main use case.


----------



## technobear

To get anything actually better, as opposed to just different, in a headphone amp compared to the RME, you need to be thinking $2000+, not $500.


----------



## oqvist

technobear said:


> To get anything actually better, as opposed to just different, in a headphone amp compared to the RME, you need to be thinking $2000+, not $500.


I think my massdrop THX 789 aaa is significantly better for all my headphones. Havent tried my iems


----------



## cobrabucket

789 is great with IEMs on low gain mode!


----------



## MikeW (Jan 29, 2019)

Picked up the RME on ebay last nite for 999$, the seller has a 30 day money back gurantee as well. Unit will arrive on thursday, am excited to try it out. I also just received a Schiit Loki, trying it out with my current Jot/Bimby setup. It's quite nice, pretty transparent and effective little box. It will be redundant with the RME, but I may just keep it put away anyways, as I don't think i want to be without hardware based EQ ever again, and most dac's still don't have the feature, RME spoiled us.


----------



## MagnusH

I listen in fairly normal HiFi setup: DAC/preamp (currently Pro-Ject Pre Box S2) connected to power amplifier and speakers. I use a computer as streamer, and I don't use headphones very much. Anyway, I plan to upgrade my DAC and the RME ADI-2 is one of the candidates, but I have some questions:
- I am also thinking about Chord Qutest with passive preamp (or Hugo 2), and read it has a wider soundstage. How much difference is there?
- How well does it handle toslink and jitter? The Chord Cutest handles toslink extremely well from what I read, and toslink is so much easier (and cheaper) to get well sounding than USB due to galvanic isolation.
- Can it handle DSD 64/128 over toslink with volume control active?
- Anyone have experience with using it with batteries? How long would a 12V 10Ah last if not using headphones?

I use Roon as music-player, so I won't need the EQ in the DAC, but the volume-adaptive loudness sounds neat since I play at low volumes from time to time (usually when wife is sleeping).


----------



## technobear (Jan 29, 2019)

MagnusH said:


> - How well does it handle toslink and jitter?


Very well.



MagnusH said:


> - Can it handle DSD 64/128 over toslink with volume control active?


Yes, but...

Volume control in ADI2-DAC is digital.

Digital volume control is not possible on DSD.

ADI2-DAC has two modes: DSD Direct ON or OFF

In DSD Direct ON mode, there is no volume control and no headphone output. Instead you get a line out signal at the rear. You can still fix the reference output level to various values since that controls the gain of the analogue stage.

In DSD Direct OFF mode, you have volume control and headphone output but the Sabre  DAC chips are converting the DSD to PCM before converting to analogue. You also have DSP in this mode.

The spectrum analyser and level meters work in both modes by doing a side conversion to PCM just for those features.


----------



## gepardcv

technobear said:


> Sabre chips


You mean AKM chips?


----------



## Phoniac

DSD via SPDIF is limited to DSD64, everywhere.


----------



## technobear

gepardcv said:


> You mean AKM chips?


Yeah. Sorry, I don't know why I read Sabre. It just says 'DA converter chips' in the user manual.

The ADI2-DAC of course uses AK4490.


----------



## captblaze

technobear said:


> Volume control in ADI2-DAC is digital.
> 
> Digital volume control is not possible on DSD.
> 
> ...



is volume control of DSD possible through software (HQ Player, Jriver)? I do realize there is a reference level that can be set in the DAC, but they are just preset levels. I would like a bit more granular control of DSD Direct volume and was curious

or do I need to trim the output of my amp in order to keep from taking my speakers apart?


----------



## MagnusH

This DSD and volume issue on this DAC is a little confusing. Lots of DACs out there has them combined so why isn't it possible on this DAC? Or is the RME DAC doing it the DSP way, which as far as I know is not a good way of doing it.


----------



## technobear

captblaze said:


> is volume control of DSD possible through software (HQ Player, Jriver)? I do realize there is a reference level that can be set in the DAC, but they are just preset levels. I would like a bit more granular control of DSD Direct volume and was curious
> 
> or do I need to trim the output of my amp in order to keep from taking my speakers apart?


Volume control in ADI2-DAC is digital.

Digital volume control is not possible on DSD.


----------



## technobear

MagnusH said:


> This DSD and volume issue on this DAC is a little confusing. Lots of DACs out there has them combined so why isn't it possible on this DAC? Or is the RME DAC doing it the DSP way, which as far as I know is not a good way of doing it.


Volume control in ADI2-DAC is digital.

Digital volume control is not possible on DSD.


----------



## MagnusH

technobear said:


> Volume control in ADI2-DAC is digital.
> 
> Digital volume control is not possible on DSD.


Volume control in all Chord DACs are also digital, yet they support DSD. Same with my current DAC Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital. I think you can ask the DAC chips to perform volume modifications, which is performed on the output stage.

If volume is done in DSP, you lose effective resolution.


----------



## Slaphead (Jan 29, 2019)

captblaze said:


> is volume control of DSD possible through software (HQ Player, Jriver)? I do realize there is a reference level that can be set in the DAC, but they are just preset levels. I would like a bit more granular control of DSD Direct volume and was curious
> 
> or do I need to trim the output of my amp in order to keep from taking my speakers apart?





MagnusH said:


> This DSD and volume issue on this DAC is a little confusing. Lots of DACs out there has them combined so why isn't it possible on this DAC? Or is the RME DAC doing it the DSP way, which as far as I know is not a good way of doing it.



DSD is DSD and it is not alterable at all in the digital domain, at all.

For volume control on pure DSD you need to send the signal from the DAC to a pre/power or integrated amp with an analog volume control.

DSD is a hopeless format with absolutely no benefits, and a ton of drawbacks compared to PCM, so my advice is to convert whatever you have in DSD to PCM and then enjoy the music with control. DSD is the audio equivalent of the Emperors new clothes


----------



## Slaphead

MagnusH said:


> Volume control in all Chord DACs are also digital, yet they support DSD. Same with my current DAC Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital. I think you can ask the DAC chips to perform volume modifications, which is performed on the output stage.
> 
> If volume is done in DSP, you lose effective resolution.



1. That means that DSD has to be converted to PCM internally for a digital volume control to function. 

2. And no, if volume is done in DSP you do not lose effective resolution with modern DACs as the digital signal is translated to a higher bit depth before volume processing.


----------



## Luckbad (Jan 29, 2019)

MagnusH said:


> This DSD and volume issue on this DAC is a little confusing. Lots of DACs out there has them combined so why isn't it possible on this DAC? Or is the RME DAC doing it the DSP way, which as far as I know is not a good way of doing it.



You do have volume control with DSD. @technobear is incorrect here. If you use DSD Direct (an option), that disables all additional processing--including volume control--and only lets you play via line out. That's the purist function for people who are DSD junkies.

Source: Me. I got an ADI-2 DAC over a year ago and I've listened to quite a bit of DSD with it. Edit: Listening to a couple of DSD track right now via JRiver on my RME ADI-2 DAC with volume control.


----------



## captblaze

Slaphead said:


> DSD is DSD and it is not alterable at all in the digital domain, at all.
> 
> For volume control on pure DSD you need to send the signal from the DAC to a pre/power or integrated amp with an analog volume control.
> 
> DSD is a hopeless format with absolutely no benefits, and a ton of drawbacks compared to PCM, so my advice is to convert whatever you have in DSD to PCM and then enjoy the music with control. DSD is the audio equivalent of the Emperors new clothes



if that is the case, I have some work to do. any suggestion as to bit depth and resolution? all my DSD files are both .iso and .dsf.


----------



## MikeW

I do know this unit is supposed to be prettty high end with regards to all its input modes, including USB. Very few are better. Femto clocks for sure and likely galvanic isolation as well. People have commented no change when using it with reclockers and linear power supplies. Also many have auditioned this Dac vs Hugo and preferred it. I’d say they are both in the same technical league so more preference then anything


----------



## bwcgrx

captblaze said:


> if that is the case, I have some work to do. any suggestion as to bit depth and resolution? all my DSD files are both .iso and .dsf.



If the software you are using supports DSD playback, I asume it does, there is no reason to permanently convert your DSD source files to PCM.  Just turn off DSD direct mode on the RME and let the RME convert from DSD to PCM on the fly.  You will then have volume control through all outputs including the headphone jack.  The DSP functions of the RME will be disabled however.  I'd recommend on the fly DSD to PCM conversion in your playback software if DSP is important to you when playing DSD.  Taking the time to convert your DSD content to PCM is just a waste when software like Foobar and JRiver and the RME can do this for you in real time.  Some people have such a hatred for DSD that they would prefer to see it eradicated.  I'm lossless format agnostic myself.


----------



## cobrabucket

bwcgrx said:


> If the software you are using supports DSD playback, I asume it does, there is no reason to permanently convert your DSD source files to PCM.  Just turn off DSD direct mode on the RME and let the RME convert from DSD to PCM on the fly.  You will then have volume control through all outputs including the headphone jack.  The DSP functions of the RME will be disabled however.  I'd recommend on the fly DSD to PCM conversion in your playback software if DSP is important to you when playing DSD.  Taking the time to convert your DSD content to PCM is just a waste when software like Foobar and JRiver and the RME can do this for you in real time.  Some people have such a hatred for DSD that they would prefer to see it eradicated.  I'm lossless format agnostic myself.


/\ THIS.


----------



## cobrabucket

I love DSD!!! Wish that there were more albums in that format, but they sound amazing! Definitely the best way listen to digital music, IMHO. I feel that PCM conversion is fine, but takes away that "something special" sound [warmer, more analog sounding] that I hear when listening to native DSD.


----------



## cobrabucket (Jan 31, 2019)

If I ended up with this DAC, I would output it to a device with preamp capabilities downstream to control volume. Worth It!


----------



## captblaze

bwcgrx said:


> If the software you are using supports DSD playback, I asume it does, there is no reason to permanently convert your DSD source files to PCM.  Just turn off DSD direct mode on the RME and let the RME convert from DSD to PCM on the fly.  You will then have volume control through all outputs including the headphone jack.  The DSP functions of the RME will be disabled however.  I'd recommend on the fly DSD to PCM conversion in your playback software if DSP is important to you when playing DSD.  Taking the time to convert your DSD content to PCM is just a waste when software like Foobar and JRiver and the RME can do this for you in real time.  Some people have such a hatred for DSD that they would prefer to see it eradicated.  I'm lossless format agnostic myself.



I am using HQ Player and have a specific set of filters enabled for my current DAC (Brooklyn+). I like HQ Player because of its CUDA Offload feature which lets me leverage the power of my GeForce Titan X Graphics card to do all the heavy lifting during conversions and such. as for format... used to be .wav until I hated fiddling with the metadata constantly from player to player. all my CDs are ripped to no compression FLAC, have around 100 SACD's ripped to .ISO and .DSF. I also have some DVD-A and Blu Ray Audio ripped to 24/192 FLAC. 

I was supposed to have my ADI-2 DAC delivered today, but unfortunately FedEx ran into cold weather issues enroute to the delivery hub and I wont see it till tomorrow (perhaps). I guess I should read more talk less and figure this thing out once I receive it


----------



## MikeW

There is no heavy lifting with modern cpu. Probably peg your 9900k at like 0.22% usage on one core. Using cuda for such a weak workload seems crazy


----------



## captblaze

MikeW said:


> There is no heavy lifting with modern cpu. Probably peg your 9900k at like 0.22% usage on one core. Using cuda for such a weak workload seems crazy



CPU is a 4790K and the titan is pushed to 18% while upconverting to DSD512 in real time. so it leaves me headroom to do some video encoding at the same time. 

the CPU runs at about 20% during the same operation. considering I built this computer 4 years ago and it still handles everything I throw at it to this day all is good


----------



## technobear

Slaphead said:


> DSD is the audio equivalent of the Emperors new clothes


I thought that was MQA!


----------



## technobear

Luckbad said:


> You do have volume control with DSD. @technobear is incorrect here. If you use DSD Direct (an option), that disables all additional processing--including volume control--and only lets you play via line out. That's the purist function for people who are DSD junkies.
> 
> Source: Me. I got an ADI-2 DAC over a year ago and I've listened to quite a bit of DSD with it. Edit: Listening to a couple of DSD track right now via JRiver on my RME ADI-2 DAC with volume control.


I already said this two pages ago. Perhaps you missed it:



> In DSD Direct OFF mode, you have volume control and headphone output but the DAC chips are converting the DSD to PCM before converting to analogue. You also have DSP in this mode.



This is all described in some detail on page 32 of the user manual. You did read the user manual, didn't you?


----------



## technobear

MagnusH said:


> Volume control in all Chord DACs are also digital, yet they support DSD. Same with my current DAC Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital. I think you can ask the DAC chips to perform volume modifications, which is performed on the output stage.
> 
> If volume is done in DSP, you lose effective resolution.


The RME combats this in two ways.

First, the volume control is performed at 32-bit resolution so you have to turn it down a long way to lose anything.

Second, it has Automatic Reference Level setting which adjusts the gain of the analogue stage on the fly depending on volume selected so the digital volume control isn't attenuating as much as the display is indicating.


----------



## Litlgi74

Silly question...

I have my RME on my nightstand for bedtime listening... Any way of turning of the red led when the unit is powered off?

Thanks


----------



## CaptainFantastic

This question was asked on the RME support forum and the answer was "No", because it is hardwired, not controllable through firmware updates.


----------



## Litlgi74

Thanks for the reply... that stinks.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Cover it with something, like a very small bio-cotton Tibetan flag or whatever you like. 

https://www.enlightenedgifts.org/


----------



## domho7

Just emailed supplier no stock for rme adi 2


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jan 30, 2019)

domho7 said:


> Just emailed supplier no stock for rme adi 2



This is where I purchased mine... $999. No issues. 30 day return policy. It was drop shipped from Synthax Inc.


----------



## domho7

Litlgi74 said:


> This is where I purchased mine... $999. No issues. 30 day return policy. It was drop shipped from Synthax Inc.


Tks for the link


----------



## captblaze

another place you might look is Sweetwater. never had an issue with their service you get an extra year warranty through them (first year manufacturer)  and also received notice mine will arrive from them tomorrow. 
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ADI2DAC--rme-adi-2-dac


----------



## domho7

Hi tks for the link on purchases. 
Presently I am using my A&K as transport chord mojo as dac and Aroma audio A100 + ps100 as amp. I hv fiio fh5 iems and audeze lcd2. 
I was trying some dac like Audiolab mdac+ by connecting sr15 using micro USB to USB B to dac and the amp mini jack to rca. There's signal shown on mdac but no sound. I have same experience with arcam irdac dac also.
Tried denafrips Ares 1st day was gd and I like it. But 2nd day started issues and 3rd day can't connect. 
But strange thing is I can connect with chord dave cutest Hugo 2 and TT2. 
I am concerned if I were to get rme dac and later have USB B issues with the sr15. 
My playing ground is limited to L430 W420 H420.
Would appreciate some advice fr rme users. 
Tks


----------



## mixman

Sweetwater will do it for $999 and they have a 30 day return policy.


----------



## MikeW

I bought mine from Pitbull Audio on ebay, it was their last unit. 999$ with 30 day return window. Should arrive tomorrow.


----------



## VRacer-111

mixman said:


> Sweetwater will do it for $999 and they have a 30 day return policy.



I got mine from Sweetwater mainly because could split payment into 3 installments over 2 months...


----------



## MikeW

Oh god, don't finance headphone gear... dave ramsy for the win.


----------



## Luckbad

technobear said:


> I already said this two pages ago. Perhaps you missed it:
> 
> This is all described in some detail on page 32 of the user manual. You did read the user manual, didn't you?



Doh, my bad! From where the replies were heading, it sounded like more than one person believed you could not use volume control while playing DSD files at all.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Jan 30, 2019)

MikeW said:


> Oh god, don't finance headphone gear... dave ramsy for the win.


 Sweetwater allows for 3 payments stretched over 2 months if you have good credit for gear over a certain ammount...it's not 'financed'. Can pay whole lump sum at once, but when you can break it into 3 payments and pay off the credit card easier over 3 payment periods it makes it easier to keep zero balance.


----------



## Mrstump5

So im new to this thread and I'm just wondering. Why is this dac so popular? I's it bc of the features it has and thats its cheap compared to other dacs.  How does it compare to a yggy 2


----------



## MikeW (Jan 30, 2019)

From what I gather it's a combination of it's features and performance. It's not a "Cheap" dac however, by any measure really. It does have an excellent power circuit (despite being Switch Mode PS), and an excellent Digital Input section.. these are things that are important and commonly sub-par on cheaper options. It also has a DSP with numerous features, and EQ built in, a volume control, a pre-amp, headphone amp, iem amp, multiple outputs etc. It's made by a no-nonsense pro outfit that's been around for a long time. It' measures exceptionally well.

While i've not personally heard a Yggdrasil, this device is quite different in many ways. It's Delta Sigma for one, which will yield quite a different sonic profile. It's also less then half the cost of a Yggdrasil. I've not seen them compared directly, often, but the few times I have, they Yggy comes out on top. Not surprising given it's 20 lb chasis and 2300$ price tag. Gungnir would be a more appropriate comparison, and here it comes down to voicing and subjective preference, and if you need features, there's no comparison, schiit has nothing with this feature list. 

Some people don't care for multi-bit. User Cskippy on these forums has owned most of the Schiit Dac's, and has sold them all in preference of ADI-2, and recently moved on to a higher tier DS dac, Dangerous Music, convert-2.


----------



## tekkster

$999 is the old price up until november of last year.  As of nov, price went up by $100 for all new orders.  Only reason there was some stagger of leftover $999 in december was some retailers had placed orders for their stock before the price went up, so those retailers kept the $999 for consumers as the orders to the main wholesale distributor came in to refill stock.


No one has any of those left, i don’t think.  Everywhere that was $999 is now now the new $1099.

Well, at lest as far as i can tell.

Pa. Only talking about US brick and mortar and US online.  Dunno about price changes anywhere else


----------



## pororom

Hello,
 I am very interested in this and initially I will use it as a dac / headphone amp 
(I have a chord qutest on my hifi equipment, although I do not rule out connecting it to this group too in order to appreciate the differences between them and enjoy the sound profile of each one of them)

I listen classical music

Well...
The issue is that I currently equalize my headphones with a simple band equalizer with this profile:

-Amp (-1.5)
-31 (-4.0)
-62 (0)
-125 (+2)
-250 (+1)
-500 (0)
-1k (0)
-2k (0)
-4k (0)
-8k (-4)
-16k (-6)

I have seen that the ADI uses a parametric equalizer, can you help me and tell me what would be the equivalent profile that should be applied in the parametric equalizer of the ADI?

Thank you


----------



## CaptainFantastic

The ADI-2 Pro FS version is some 600 euro more expensive. Has anyone compared it to the ADI-2 DAC? Is the sound quality improved in the case of headphones use or just a matter of additional functionalities?


----------



## Mrstump5

How is the soundstage and depth of the rme? I hear the yggy is deep but narrow


----------



## captblaze

Mrstump5 said:


> How is the soundstage and depth of the rme? I hear the yggy is deep but narrow



I have owned a first gen Yggy and I have an ADI-2 DAC FS arriving today. I can try to give you a memory lane review, but to be honest I am the last person who can describe the slight differences (or big glaring ones)

I am more of I like it or I don't. I have come to the realization that after 200 + live shows over the course of my life just cause I think it sounds good doesn't mean you will think the same


----------



## LTd head

captblaze said:


> I have owned a first gen Yggy and I have an ADI-2 DAC FS arriving today. I can try to give you a memory lane review, but to be honest I am the last person who can describe the slight differences (or big glaring ones)
> 
> I am more of I like it or I don't. I have come to the realization that after 200 + live shows over the course of my life just cause I think it sounds good doesn't mean you will think the same



+1
The comparison between Yggy would be awesome!
However, I totally agree with you - "I like it or I don't"!


----------



## Tsukuyomi

i'm getting my RME ADI-2 DAC today/tomorrow or this weekend. my order came in at its waiting for me at the store to pick it up.
my friend has a Schiit Yggdrasil at his place and i could ask to borrow it over the weekend and test both side by side if need be.
the only cans i have for testing are the DT1990 Pro and B&O H6 Gen 2.  unfortunately i dont have my LCD2C yet from Audeze. i'll be ordering that later as i'll need to pay off the ADI-2 DAC and my new A&K Sr15. lol


----------



## MagnusH

Has anyone compared an isolated USB (for example behind a ethernet transport like ultraRendu) with toslink on this DAC? Any sound quality differences?


----------



## LifeAspect

I went from the yggy to the DAC-2. Can say I prefer the DAC-2 just for the features it has over the double the price of the yggy...


----------



## domho7

Hi RME adi 2 owners. Does the player comes with USB type B feature. Tks


----------



## domho7 (Feb 1, 2019)

Hi RME owners can confirm this dac is xmos base. Tks


----------



## technobear

domho7 said:


> Hi RME adi 2 owners. Does the player comes with USB type B feature. Tks


http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/adi_2-dac.php


----------



## pororom

Guys,
Can anyone tell me how this equalization should be programmed in the ADI parametric?
I am very interested in this and initially I will use it as a dac / headphone amp
(I have a chord qutest on my hifi equipment, although I do not rule out connecting it to this group too in order to appreciate the differences between them and enjoy the sound profile of each one of them)
The issue is that I currently equalize my headphones with a simple band equalizer with this profile:

-Amp (-1.5)
-31 (-4.0)
-62 (0)
-125 (+2)
-250 (+1)
-500 (0)
-1k (0)
-2k (0)
-4k (0)
-8k (-4)
-16k (-6)

I have seen that the ADI uses a parametric equalizer, can you help me and tell me what would be the equivalent profile that should be applied in the parametric equalizer of the ADI?


----------



## technobear

pororom said:


> Guys,
> Can anyone tell me how this equalization should be programmed in the ADI parametric?
> I am very interested in this and initially I will use it as a dac / headphone amp
> (I have a chord qutest on my hifi equipment, although I do not rule out connecting it to this group too in order to appreciate the differences between them and enjoy the sound profile of each one of them)
> ...


The ADI2-DAC gives you a graphical display of the EQ. Just play with the settings until it looks like what you want. The curve you have listed is not hard to replicate with a 5 band PEQ.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 1, 2019)

I didn't think this DAC is high performing as it's hyped up to be in terms of sonic qualities.  I wasn't all that impressive compared to the lower priced chip DACs out there.  I would describe the sound as not sounding as realistic or analog when paired with my go to amp.  This is usually the typical characteristics of pretty much majority of DACs out there, and I didn't think this one particularly had sonic qualities warrant such a price tag.

Headphone out isn't anything particularly special.  I tried both headphones and iems, and you hear more of it's digital sounding characteristic, not really all that analog sounding to me.  With iems, it's didn't sound any better from a typical DAP.

One positive thing I can say is the built in EQ, and being able to set both left and right side EQ independently.  Also, it being parametric EQ built into the device itself.  I didn't get much of a chance to play around with that feature unfortunately.  And I take it that it's geared for engineers.

I wonder if this thing has grabbed people's attention because the company is of pro audio background?  Just because it's a pro audio product doesn't mean squat in terms of pure sonic qualities.  I just don't understand why people want to throw money at this thing, as to my ears, value is not there.


----------



## Mrstump5

SilverEars said:


> I didn't think this DAC is high performing as it's hyped up to be in terms of sonic qualities.  I wasn't all that impressive compared to the lower priced chip DACs out there.  I would describe the sound as not sounding as realistic or analog when paired with my go to amp.  This is usually the typical characteristics of pretty much majority of DACs out there, and I didn't think this one particularly had sonic qualities warrant such a price tag.
> 
> Headphone out isn't anything particularly special.  I tried both headphones and iems, and you hear more of it's digital sounding characteristic, not really all that analog sounding to me.  With iems, it's didn't sound any better from a typical DAP.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your honesty. I have never heard it so my opinion doesnt matter. But I think people buy it because they say it measures well and has many features. Idk. But i do know measuring well and sounding good are 2 different things.


----------



## captblaze

You make some good points, but what type gear do you think recording engineers use to master am album?


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 1, 2019)

captblaze said:


> You make some good points, but what type gear do you think recording engineers use to master am album?


Probably varies as there's so many products out there and different engineers.  Audiophiles generally spend their time trying to improve their setups sonically, and engineers objective is not exactly that.  So, I think engineers would get gear that fit their needs in terms of functionality being a big criteria.

For example, Yamaha NS10 was used for monitoring by engineers, but it's not really a good sounding gear.  Monitoring for mastering is a bit different I think.


----------



## captblaze

SilverEars said:


> Probably varies as there's so many products out there and different engineers.  Audiophiles generally spend their time trying to improve their setups sonically, and engineers objective is different.  So, I think engineers would get gear that fit their needs in terms of functionality being a big criteria.



Yes, but they all take the masters and tweak the sound to what they like or what the target audience might like. I should have my unit today, not that I am aithority, but I will know relatively quickly if I made a poor choice


----------



## CaptainFantastic

I have had the ADI-2 since December. I will say just this: I heard an instant and very pleasant improvement over the Grace m900 I was using before (and still do and enjoy at work). To me the improvement + the added features for about 400 more seems fair. I have done a lot of research and so far I don't understand what would be better for under 1000. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like I would have to spend 4000 or so for a Chord Dave to get an improvement and even then with caveats. Or it could be that I am wrong. What do you, SilverEars, propose that would improve the sound in this price range? Genuinely curious. (Also genuinely loving the ADI-2 sound with my headphones)


----------



## MagnusH

Some people like colored sound, some like neutral, some like distortion (without even knowing it like vinyl, multiladder DACs etc), so there is never going to be one DAC that everyone think sound best. I have heard from different people that the RME DAC sounded more clear than the Chord Cutest (like a veil being lifted etc), which to me sounds like RME is a good DAC.


----------



## captblaze

my goal is with this DAC is to be my own engineer and stop with having to settle on Brand X house sound... I am hoping once I get this running the only house sound to listen to is mine. an uncle of mine who has spent many a year in a recording studio constantly teases me with his ability to "bend" sound. now hopefully I get to experience what he has talked about all these years


----------



## MikeW

My unit arrived yesterday and im playing with it now. Not enough head time to comment much about it's sound. The features are quite nice, love that EQ and Crossfeed. My screen does have a rather significant piece of debris right smack in the middle. A bit annoying, for an expensive product.


----------



## domho7

Hi any RME owners knows if the receiver is XMOS base. Tks.


----------



## ggetzoff

Have the vendor  swap it out if it really bothers you.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

ggetzoff said:


> Have the vendor  swap it out if it really bothers you.



Yes, mine is spotless and everyone should expect the same. I am sure they will take care of it.


----------



## tekkster

SilverEars said:


> I didn't think this DAC is high performing as it's hyped up to be in terms of sonic qualities.  I wasn't all that impressive compared to the lower priced chip DACs out there.  I would describe the sound as not sounding as realistic or analog when paired with my go to amp.  This is usually the typical characteristics of pretty much majority of DACs out there, and I didn't think this one particularly had sonic qualities warrant such a price tag.
> 
> Headphone out isn't anything particularly special.  I tried both headphones and iems, and you hear more of it's digital sounding characteristic, not really all that analog sounding to me.  With iems, it's didn't sound any better from a typical DAP.
> 
> ...




While i disagree with the earlier parts of your statement oryour last sentence, every opinion counts.


----------



## captblaze

just got this unboxed and installed on my desktop. turned it on and letting the defaults control what I hear. using ASIO driver to both HQ Player and Audirvana +

my rig:

CB Custom PC>Heimdall2 USB>RME ADI-2 DAC fs>Element Titan XLR Interconnects>Class D Audio SDS 250>Signal Cable Silver Resolution Reference Speaker Cables> KEF LS50

initial impression listening to 24 bit FLAC      

will mess around with HP and IEM later today... right now I am just listening and enjoying my nearfield (no critical listening today)


----------



## MikeW (Feb 1, 2019)

CaptainFantastic said:


> Yes, mine is spotless and everyone should expect the same. I am sure they will take care of it.



Yeah it's pretty annoying, and will mess with resale value. The vendor I bought it from appears to be out of stock as it was their last unit. Im sure I could fix it myself, as it appears to be trapped between the LCD scren and the Chasis plastic.. unfortunately there's a warranty void sticker on the bottom chassis screw... annoying. There were also very faint scratches on the outer part of the plastic screen. Not enough to be seen in use, but fairly obvious if one catches them in the right sheen of light. I found it odd the unit did not have a pull-off scratch protector on this part. With these two issues combined, my confidence in quality control is a bit shaken. I kind of like watching the spectro graphic, and that dumb speck of dust is right there staring back at me always. The unit was purchased as new, and came completely sealed. The vendor is an authorized reseller for RME.

Odds are good, that I will eventually sell this piece of gear, just to try something new, a defect like this makes the regular 20% haircut on used go to something like 30 or 35%.

I went ahead and reached out to the vendor to see what they can do for me.. It seems like a large company with a good return policy, though i've never used them before (Pitbull Audio)

Edit: Pitbull got back to me really quick, after hours even. They informed me they'd be happy to exchange the unit once they get more stock in a week or so. Great outfit.


----------



## captblaze

MikeW said:


> Edit: Pitbull got back to me really quick, after hours even. They informed me they'd be happy to exchange the unit once they get more stock in a week or so. Great outfit.



having a dealer that wont flinch when it comes to making things right can go a long way to restoring confidence (unless the replacement is borked too)
I just received mine today and after reading your post gave it a good looking over. looks like fine to my eyes.

I have spent a good part of the day getting acquainted with all the controls and the general layout of the menu(s). keeping a copy of the menu flow chart on the desk has been helpful and made navigation a touch easier. If you are a hunt and peck person good luck because there are a few layers of menus to pour through.

my early listening has been primarily with 24 bit FLAC, although I did try out the DSD direct and realized 2 things. I either need a preamp after the DAC to handle volume changes, or need to trim some gain out of the amp itself (which is kind of a pain given the location on the rear panel of the amp). for now and as suggested my the folks at RME I am listening to FLAC with out over or under sampling.

there is one feature that I have found useful this evening. Loudness
it has brought back some of the dynamics in the music at low listening levels. a very handy feature and something I will use regularly.

for my use, this is DAC is an interesting piece of gear. sometime this weekend I will dig into the manual and start building a few PMEQ profiles of my HPs.  hopefully I can find some pre configured profiles to copy over and save some time.

all in all day one has been a good one with this here DAC.


----------



## Tsukuyomi (Feb 2, 2019)

Got my RME ADI-2 DAC today.
plugged in my DT1990 Pros and started listening to my film soundtrack library.


WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
such a world of a difference from anything ive ever owned. the clarity is unbelievable. i really REALLY love this thing.

i was a tiny bit confused on firmware updating but checked RME's website according to the booklet and easy peasy.

im having so much fun re-listening to my entire library.

PS:
despite auto-dark being a neat feature. i like it staying on lol.


----------



## captblaze

Tsukuyomi said:


> Got my RME ADI-2 DAC today.
> plugged in my DT1990 Pros and started listening to my film soundtrack library.
> 
> 
> ...



Just a quick FYI... tone controls (bass/.treble) don't function while playing DSD or any music file above 384 kHz. it took me a while to figure out it is a limitation in the DSP and just wanted to pass it along


----------



## MagnusH

Has anyone compared toslink to a good USB input (like when you use a good ethernet transport like ultraRendu)? Which sounds best?


----------



## jerick70

MagnusH said:


> Has anyone compared toslink to a good USB input (like when you use a good ethernet transport like ultraRendu)? Which sounds best?


I use the ADI-2 Pro connected to USB on a Raspberry Pi with Riopeee installed and send audio via Roon over ethernet.  A little different than you are asking about.  Yes it does give superior sound quality.


----------



## MikeW

They measured the spdif and usb inputs of the ADI-2 on ASR. They were practically identical, with perhaps the smallest edge (inperceptible) going to it's USB input. I don't know what RME is using for usb interface, it appears to be an in house solution, combined with their SteadyClock FS tech. Whatever it is, appears to be quite high end, perhaps better then XMOS.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

captblaze said:


> Just a quick FYI... tone controls (bass/.treble) don't function while playing DSD or any music file above 384 kHz. it took me a while to figure out it is a limitation in the DSP and just wanted to pass it along


Thanks for the info! i dont have many DSD files, i think maybe 2 or 3 albums.


----------



## MagnusH

MikeW said:


> They measured the spdif and usb inputs of the ADI-2 on ASR. They were practically identical, with perhaps the smallest edge (inperceptible) going to it's USB input. I don't know what RME is using for usb interface, it appears to be an in house solution, combined with their SteadyClock FS tech. Whatever it is, appears to be quite high end, perhaps better then XMOS.


Yes, I read that, but those measurements tends to be with a clean signal. Measure the USB output and toslink output from a regular desktop computer, and it will look very different. The reason I like toslink is because it won't carry over any electronic noise, no matter the source.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 2, 2019)

Perhaps, ancedotal reports of de-crapifier's combined with RME tend to suggest a high end USB implementation as well. I've got a W4S Recovery hooked to mine, but I've not tried disconnecting it  and comparing yet. Toslink does have the advantage of innate galvanic isolation, but the disadvantage of higher base jitter. I don't know if the RME's USB is galvanically isolated. Other's have compared the various input options, failing to find any significant difference.


----------



## captblaze

I am on my second ADI-2 day and I am slowly having all my preconceived notions and beliefs regarding digital audio stripped away and I am ok with that


----------



## CaptainFantastic

captblaze said:


> I am on my second ADI-2 day and I am slowly having all my preconceived notions and beliefs regarding digital audio stripped away and I am ok with that



End game under 1000€. Perfect.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 2, 2019)

Been living with Multi-Bit Schiit dac's for a couple years now, so im having a bit harder time adjusting. Wrapping my head around this newer sound profile will take a little time. I can say the ADI-2 does not "Embarrass" the Bifrost Multibit Gen5. It's definitely on another level with regard to detail/resolution. Schiit's multibit products have a nice tonality to them though, and have a more 3D presentation. I love the features so far, lots of fun stuff to tinker with. I really love the way this dac does Bass and Crystal clear high's without harshness, you can really hear deep into the music. It does these things better then Bifrost MB. Bifrost almost sounds "Tubey" or "Holographic". Im not sure that's a desirable trait in a DAC, but I enjoy it. Obviously ADI-2 is in another world when it comes to measurements. I knew that from the beginning. But I don't ascribe to the Measurements > all theory. I don't currently own any tube gear, but i've owned and enjoyed it in the past.

I've been listening to the Built in headphone amp for awhile, I also have a Jotunheim here, and prefer it to the built in amp, with HD650. Perhaps an unfair comparison, as JOT can put ~800 mw into 300 ohm's vs only 300 mw from the ADI-2. Jotunheim has superior tonality/bass slam/dynamic's, perhaps a bit less resolution. I don't know how the ADI-2's headamp compares to Magni3, JDS ATOM, or Monoprice Spark, I bet those would probably be side-grades more then upgrades though, probably not worth the effort. My Multibit Jot's currently for sale, and I don't have another amp available so will likely use the built-in for a bit.  Considering amp options... THX789, Gilmore Lite MK2, LYR3, Monoprice LP, Valhalla, Felik's Elise.. ugh my head hurts. The thought also occured to ditch dynamic's and buy a high end IEM like Andromeda to pair with the ADI-2. But I know nothing of IEM's, never tried one, and don't know how they compare to dynamic phones of similar price.

I did not buy it for use as an AIO though. While the tiny form factor and slick appearance is awesome, and it would be great to have an AIO. I've yet to find one that meets my performance requirements. Jotunheim also fails at this. The dac module's just are not good enough. If I had to live with one of them as an AIO though, it would be the RME ADI-2. As the discrepancy between it's DAC and JOT's dac is bigger then the discrepancy between their respective AMP sections.

It's really hard to find an "endgame" AIO. I don't think one exist. I've read the Holo Cyan might be one of the best available.


----------



## captblaze

CaptainFantastic said:


> End game under 1000€. Perfect.



I'm not ready to say end game, but file type and power requirements are now irrelevant with this DAC


----------



## Finale

I am pairing the Adi2-dac with ATH-A2000Z and Focal Clear, and they sounds great! IMO, there really isn't much coloring to the sound, but that's what I love about the Adi2dac.


----------



## captblaze

Finale said:


> I am pairing the Adi2-dac with ATH-A2000Z and Focal Clear, and they sounds great! IMO, there really isn't much coloring to the sound, but that's what I love about the Adi2dac.



I'm on day 3 and still haven't bothered to figure out the PMEQ. been giving my nearfield setup some extra time and funny thing is I haven't gotten any request to slap on a set of headphones.

have I finally convinced my wife this hobby is harmless? I don't really believe that, but for one day...


----------



## MikeW (Feb 3, 2019)

The EQ's excellent. I EQ'ed my HD650's to harman curve and it's a huge bump up on sound quality. While the EQ can't erase the "sins" of the  head-amp, it definitely helps. I want to try and EQ out some room problems on my LSR305's next. Bass slam improved alot, while not being muddy. Was surprised how well the headamp responded to EQ. Mid-range tonality is still subjectivly not as pleasant as my Jotunheim, but this amp may be a little better then i'd originally thought. I've also been burning the unit in for 3 days now 24/7. 

I do wonder if one would be better off pairing an ADI-2 with a high end 1k-1500$ IEM and using that as an AIO. Forgoing expensive headamp altogether.


----------



## captblaze

MikeW said:


> The EQ's excellent. I EQ'ed my HD650's to harman curve and it's a huge bump up on sound quality. While the EQ can't erase the "sins" of the  head-amp, it definitely helps. I want to try and EQ out some room problems on my LSR305's next. Bass slam improved alot, while not being muddy. Was surprised how well the headamp responded to EQ. Mid-range tonality is still subjectivly not as pleasant as my Jotunheim, but this amp may be a little better then i'd originally thought. I've also been burning the unit in for 3 days now 24/7.
> 
> I do wonder if one would be better off pairing an ADI-2 with a high end 1k-1500$ IEM and using that as an AIO. Forgoing expensive headamp altogether.



any resource you are willing to share regarding headphone EQ curves? I am looking to profile my collection, but would be willing to take a shorter route if possible


----------



## MikeW (Feb 3, 2019)

I only EQ'ed my 650's, which have been around for a long time and people already know their trouble area's. Add little sub bass, and mid range with a big cut in the 8k area. If you have specific headphones in mind you can search for the headphone name + EQ and see if someone else has already figured out a harman curve. I found this thread interesting :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-eq-curves-for-lcd-2-hd650-m50-and-007mk2.551426/

I dialed in his harman settings for HD650 as closely as possible. Really made a difference with built in head-amp, great slam in hip-hop/edm. The EQ on this thing is way to good to ignore, and was a large part of my appeal. Im starting to appreciate the finer elements of the DAC now, I was not initially blown away, but as I get accustomed and spend more head time with the gear im enjoying it more. In my experience if a piece of gear has alot of immediate "wow" factor, that can actually be a red flag as you grow into the gear you may come to dislike whatever was drawing so much attention to itself in the beginning. Im not going to say DS is the king and Multibit is Audiophool BS, I think different strokes for different folks. I do plan to one day try out a Yggdrasil for example. Having spent the last couple of years with entry level Multibit, I wanted to try the other side for awhile. Though perhaps unfairly, as this is the highest end, most expensive piece of gear i've ever owned. I've dabbled and tweaked enough with Software EQ in the past to understand it's potential, but I've always been highly irritated with software EQ's limitations and headaches. Particularly the fact that you can't just dial in an EQ and have it "Just work" across the board, this is alot better on Mac, but really stinks on windows. I get most of my music though Tidal now a days, and I have a offline collection as well, Foobar is fantastic and has some really great EQ options, and even room correction plugins that are outstanding. But you can't apply it systemwide, and Equalizer APO cannot bypass the windows mixer, and I had clipping problems with it too. Not to mention EQ'ing, games, youtube, netflix etc..


----------



## captblaze

MikeW said:


> I only EQ'ed my 650's, which have been around for a long time and people already know their trouble area's. Add little sub bass, and mid range with a big cut in the 8k area. If you have specific headphones in mind you can search for the headphone name + EQ and see if someone else has already figured out a harman curve. I found this thread interesting :
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-eq-curves-for-lcd-2-hd650-m50-and-007mk2.551426/
> 
> I dialed in his harman settings for HD650 as closely as possible. Really made a difference with built in head-amp, great slam in hip-hop/edm.



that is exactly what I am looking for

thanks


----------



## technobear

captblaze said:


> any resource you are willing to share regarding headphone EQ curves? I am looking to profile my collection, but would be willing to take a shorter route if possible


Lots of curves for headphones on this site: https://www.headphone.com/collections/over-ear/products/audeze-lcd-x


----------



## Tsukuyomi

So also spending the entire weekend with my RME ADI-2 DAC and i've noticed a few things.
1. super tiny bit of warmth but only after leaving it on for most the entire day.
2. the remote is a nice addition but as a desktop solution... i rarely ever use it.
3. I LOVE THE TWISTY KNOBS! i know they're digital and not proper pots but oh man, such a great build quality feel.
4. I leave my screen on all the time (i never use auto-dark) honestly its not even that bright to begin with so i dont see why that should matter to most.

now my questions are as follows.
Q1: has anyone noticed a sound change switching from USB-B to OPTICAL fiber ?
Q2: the version is 26 right? just double checking.


----------



## captblaze

Tsukuyomi said:


> now my questions are as follows.
> Q1: has anyone noticed a sound change switching from USB-B to OPTICAL fiber ?
> Q2: the version is 26 right? just double checking.



I don't have an optical source, but I did switch between USB and Coax.

still accessing which one I prefer, but neither has been an instant NO.

Link to firmware -----> https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewforum.php?id=21


----------



## pororom

He just come home.
I have installed and updated firmware (Mac)
Running Audirvana in Izotope and upsampling to 192 tracks purchased on iTunes (Keith Jarrett ...)
I am listening now with the Denon AH7200 from the Iem output without touching anything, with factory settings and zero noises!
The Denon for that exit sounds really very well!
Amazing...


----------



## Tsukuyomi

captblaze said:


> I don't have an optical source, but I did switch between USB and Coax.
> 
> still accessing which one I prefer, but neither has been an instant NO.
> 
> Link to firmware -----> https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewforum.php?id=21


perfect, just wanna make sure hehe 
and yeah i have an optical cable for my pc so i was wondering if i should unplug usb and use that instead. hmm


----------



## captblaze

Tsukuyomi said:


> perfect, just wanna make sure hehe
> and yeah i have an optical cable for my pc so i was wondering if i should unplug usb and use that instead. hmm



USB is necessary for firmware upgrades, but not necessarily for music playback. optical is for music playback only


----------



## Tsukuyomi

captblaze said:


> USB is necessary for firmware upgrades, but not necessarily for music playback. optical is for music playback only


yeah, i mean i can always re-plug the usb back in for firmware updates. but will the programs that the rme asked to install still work? like the media thing


----------



## captblaze

Tsukuyomi said:


> yeah, i mean i can always re-plug the usb back in for firmware updates. but will the programs that the rme asked to install still work? like the media thing



I cant answer that. all my stuff still works other than having to point the software to the correct device.


----------



## captblaze

I found a reason to leave the USB connected even if you are using Coax or Optical for listening to music.

DIGICheck <------- RME Analyzer Software  (only works via USB although you have to run the other inputs and the signal is analyzed over USB )

No need to have DAC display on all the time


----------



## MikeW

I think u can remap remote buttons so it could be useful for quick access to something that requires digging in menu. I’ve not tried yet.

You can also adjust screen brightness if you like leaving it on. 

I do wish the balanced out and unbalanced line outs were separate. If you use balanced out speakers and unbalanced line out to a head amp, settings like EQ and crossfeed, etc have to be manually changed.. maybe can save the entire setup and switch that way.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Hey guys, im noticing that when using my DT1990 Pros on the 6.35mm female that i require my volume to go all the way up to almost... -20db...
would it be better for me to turn on "high power" mode?
do you guys notice a degradation in sound quality when doing so?
rule of thumb to me is always keep low gain to reduce noise.. but do you guys notice noise on high gain?


----------



## captblaze (Feb 4, 2019)

Tsukuyomi said:


> Hey guys, im noticing that when using my DT1990 Pros on the 6.35mm female that i require my volume to go all the way up to almost... -20db...
> would it be better for me to turn on "high power" mode?
> do you guys notice a degradation in sound quality when doing so?
> rule of thumb to me is always keep low gain to reduce noise.. but do you guys notice noise on high gain?



hi power doesn't kick in until -15.5 db. with auto ref engaged

no noise with Q701, but definitely uncomfortable listening for extended time


----------



## captblaze

MikeW said:


> I do wish the balanced out and unbalanced line outs were separate. If you use balanced out speakers and unbalanced line out to a head amp, settings like EQ and crossfeed, etc have to be manually changed.. maybe can save the entire setup and switch that way.



I run balanced out to a class D amp and will be using the se output to a subwoofer (eventually), so I wont need that feature. I do agree it would be nice if you could separate the two outputs, but I think that would require a redesign of the hardware to accommodate it


----------



## Tsukuyomi

captblaze said:


> hi power doesn't kick in until -15.5 db. with auto ref engaged
> 
> no noise with Q701, but definitely uncomfortable listening for extended time


Is auto ref on by default? Or do i need to turn it on?


----------



## captblaze (Feb 4, 2019)

Tsukuyomi said:


> Is auto ref on by default? Or do i need to turn it on?



I/O button look for the headphone option (twist #1 toggle)

it should be listed like in the photo


----------



## domho7

Hi RME owners. I am very interested to try out this dac. But my A&K SR15 player using micro USB to USB B can't connect to non xmos base player. Would like to know if rme is xmos base.
I have emailed RME support site few days ago but no replies from them yet. Tks.


----------



## captblaze

domho7 said:


> Hi RME owners. I am very interested to try out this dac. But my A&K SR15 player using micro USB to USB B can't connect to non xmos base player. Would like to know if rme is xmos base.
> I have emailed RME support site few days ago but no replies from them yet. Tks.



check post 14 at this link -----> https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28243


----------



## domho7

captblaze said:


> check post 14 at this link -----> https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28243


Tks captblaze. So it's xmos base and I can carry on to order 1. Which site have the most reliable service for RME dac. Tks


----------



## captblaze

domho7 said:


> Tks captblaze. So it's xmos base and I can carry on to order 1. Which site have the most reliable service for RME dac. Tks



if read it correctly RME uses their own USB technology and the XMOS reference was regarding what is used by the majority of other DACs

"RME uses its own USB circuit/technology. XMOS is the most often used one so it might be that current Linux implementation use it that way."


----------



## MikeW

captblaze said:


> I found a reason to leave the USB connected even if you are using Coax or Optical for listening to music.
> 
> DIGICheck <------- RME Analyzer Software  (only works via USB although you have to run the other inputs and the signal is analyzed over USB )
> 
> No need to have DAC display on all the time



This is pretty neat, I have not looked into their software. What all does it do?


----------



## captblaze

MikeW said:


> This is pretty neat, I have not looked into their software. What all does it do?



real time spectrum analysis with many different type to choose from


----------



## MikeW (Feb 4, 2019)

Still dealing with the screen defect on my unit... I will say one thing, RME Dealers don't mess around, it's really impressive the level of support, responsiveness and service these guys are putting out. The dealer I purchased my unit from is currently out of stock and put me in touch with a Synthax rep in Florida and so far  they have been extremely responsive. Perhaps it's the pro background, but the experience thus far has been a bit above and beyond what i'd expect from most consumer outfits. Perhaps it's the dealer network, more attuned to the needs of their customer then the guy at bestbuy. Needless to say, if anyone has any warranty issues down the road, I don't suspect you'll have any issues with this outfit.


----------



## captblaze (Feb 5, 2019)

took my first listen with IEMs today. UE 18+ Pro

no noise
acceptable stage for IEMs
as good (if not slightly better) than my go to DAP (WM-1A which works well with these IEMs). I do have an LPG Diana, but has different sound sig
no high power option which is a plus for keeping your eardrums intact although -15 is necessary for full sound <--- -20db seems to be a good point and -15 was a track with low dynamic range
loudness and tone controls (384 kHz and below) working

still learning strengths and weaknesses of this DAC, but I haven't given a new piece of gear this long (and pleasurable) a listen in ages


----------



## captblaze

just dusted off my HD700 and have been pleased with what I have been hearing. never been happy or managed a long listening session with these and my Brooklyn+. too much treble glare (probably).

Steve Gadd, Natalie Merchant, Marianne Thorsen all good... heading towards Rush and Billy Cobham next

I will say that the COAX input is stellar and aside from  the SR limitation (which is irrelevant if the track is mixed and mastered well) I am starting to prefer it to USB. although no DSD over COAX which I am ok with and will eventually rip all my SACD .ISO to 24 bit FLAC (no compression). for now I will just enjoy my music collection and some time down the road figure out what to do with the Brooklyn+

last thought for tonight... when I ordered this DAC I was considering the Pro version for the extra inputs (ad/da) and balanced HP output, but realistically speaking I don't miss the either


----------



## MikeW (Feb 5, 2019)

Daaamn that noble K10 massdrop is calling my name.... 900 bucks though, but original msrp 1600$... wonder how they compare to Campfire Solaris/Andromeda.


----------



## pororom

Any of the owners who are experts in the step-by-step configuration of the built-in equalizer can write a guide for children ... explaining step by step how to configure it and each of its functionalities?
The manual in this section is for experts ...
Does anyone dare?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

pororom said:


> Any of the owners who are experts in the step-by-step configuration of the built-in equalizer can write a guide for children ... explaining step by step how to configure it and each of its functionalities?
> The manual in this section is for experts ...
> Does anyone dare?



There is a helpful Youtube video recently released by RME:


----------



## MikeW

There’s like 4 or 5 of those official rme videos. One covers the PEQ specifically


----------



## bwcgrx

captblaze said:


> just dusted off my HD700 and have been pleased with what I have been hearing. never been happy or managed a long listening session with these and my Brooklyn+. too much treble glare (probably).
> 
> Steve Gadd, Natalie Merchant, Marianne Thorsen all good... heading towards Rush and Billy Cobham next
> 
> ...



Keep in mind that the ADI-2 will accept DSD over COAX.  There are the previously mentioned issues of DSD to PCM conversion internally depending on how you configure the ADI-2 to handle DSD.


----------



## captblaze

bwcgrx said:


> Keep in mind that the ADI-2 will accept DSD over COAX.  There are the previously mentioned issues of DSD to PCM conversion internally depending on how you configure the ADI-2 to handle DSD.



whether direct DSD or not I get no signal over COAX to the DAC. the only mode I can get sound out of the DAC or DSD signal is over USB... if you can share the config you use I will gladly try it


----------



## bwcgrx

captblaze said:


> whether direct DSD or not I get no signal over COAX to the DAC. the only mode I can get sound out of the DAC or DSD signal is over USB... if you can share the config you use I will gladly try it



In my situation I'm running Foobar 2000 on a Window 10 PC.  Coax input into the RME is coming from a Gustard U16 USB interface.  I'm not sure how applicable this would be in your situation.

I select the DSD ASIO device for the Gustard interface in Foobar.





Below you can see DSD in the State column for the COAX input.  This is obviously DSD over PCM, thus the 176.4 SR, which is DSD all the same.  It just arrives to the DAC encapsulated in a PCM wrapper.





One thing to keep in mind is that not all COAX outputs are capable of sending DoP.


----------



## captblaze (Feb 6, 2019)

bwcgrx said:


> In my situation I'm running Foobar 2000 on a Window 10 PC.  Coax input into the RME is coming from a Gustard U16 USB interface.  I'm not sure how applicable this would be in your situation.
> 
> I select the DSD ASIO device for the Gustard interface in Foobar.
> Below you can see DSD in the State column for the COAX input.  This is obviously DSD over PCM, thus the 176.4 SR, which is DSD all the same.  It just arrives to the DAC encapsulated in a PCM wrapper.
> One thing to keep in mind is that not all COAX outputs are capable of sending DoP.



looks like I need to try Foobar

thanks for the mini tutorial

UPDATE - Foobar is the solution. curious that neither HQ Player or Audirvana + are capable
UPDATE to the update - HQ Player need to do the DSD conversion and then pass the PCM signal to the DAC or no audio


----------



## pororom

CaptainFantastic said:


> There is a helpful Youtube video recently released by RME:




I have seen the video but I am totally ignorant of the equalizers.
You can explain each of the bands (5) to determine which area of the audible spectrum is (bass, mid and treble) their colors are (from left to right) 1 (Red) 2 (Yellow) 3 (Green) 4 (Cyan) 5 (Blue)
I would also be interested to know the function of the 3 parameters that can be modified in each of these 5 zones: 1: G (gain) / F: (frequency) / Q: (quality)


----------



## Slaphead (Feb 6, 2019)

pororom said:


> I have seen the video *but I am totally ignorant of the equalizers.*
> You can explain each of the bands (5) to determine which area of the audible spectrum is (bass, mid and treble) their colors are (from left to right) 1 (Red) 2 (Yellow) 3 (Green) 4 (Cyan) 5 (Blue)
> I would also be interested to know the function of the 3 parameters that can be modified in each of these 5 zones: 1: G (gain) / F: (frequency) / Q: (quality)



OK you need a 101 on EQ

So check this out - https://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Graphic-Equalizer

Once you've read that you can then play with the PEQ in the ADI-2. Each press of the volume rotary encoder will move you to the next higher frequency band (or slider) and then twist the volume encoder to either increase or decrease the gain in that frequency band.

Once you've got that you can the start using the other rotary encoders to define Q - the range of frequencies that will be affected, and F where you adjust the frequency points where the gain is centred

Remember very left is bass and very right is treble.

Just play with it and you'll get it.


----------



## MagnusH

Speaking of EQ, I use Roon for digital room correction (measured and convolution filter generated from REW), and that works good but for one little annoyance: clipping. That is of course solvable by giving the sound some headroom in Roon, but would that be needed if I did the left/right PEQ in the RME ADI-2 DAC? I seem to recall reading about some internal headroom in the DAC.


----------



## technobear

pororom said:


> I have seen the video but I am totally ignorant of the equalizers.
> You can explain each of the bands (5) to determine which area of the audible spectrum is (bass, mid and treble) their colors are (from left to right) 1 (Red) 2 (Yellow) 3 (Green) 4 (Cyan) 5 (Blue)
> I would also be interested to know the function of the 3 parameters that can be modified in each of these 5 zones: 1: G (gain) / F: (frequency) / Q: (quality)


In much less time than it would take to explain, you could just try them and see what happens. You get instant feedback from the graph after all!


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## MikeW (Feb 6, 2019)

Once you've figured out the frequency range of Bass, and Bass Instruments, Vocals, Male and Female, and high sounds like Cymbals, and you've played with the EQ a bit, you can then either measure your room with a mic and software to see were it may have Peaks, related to room size, and position of speakers. Then you can EQ them out, or  you can look up Frequency curve's of your headphone, and also adjust accordingly. It's incredibly powerful and can really nail down the experience, once you get it right. This the whole idea behind SonarWorks TrueFi .. which I tried and did like, but it's buggy as crap, and does not bypass the windows mixer.

Edit: I found the program "SineGen" to be really helpful when manually EQ'ing peaks, and just generally learning what a given frequency sounds like. It's freeware and very simple to use. It's a tone Generator that will play specific frequencies, using it I quickly identified very loud and obvious room peaks at 60 and 130 HZ on my power monitors. I was able to apply a large cut to those area's and greatly increase my enjoyment of the monitors. The bass now sounds impactful and sharp, punchy, with no room added muddiness. This is applied, systemwide, at the hardware level, without any special software, and without regard to content, it works on games, youtube, spotify, or tidal... it just works. That's why  you buy a device like RME-ADI 2 DAC.


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## pororom (Feb 7, 2019)

I took advantage of a JRiver Master offer to try it on my Mac Mini.
So far I have used Audirvana plus 3.
It is leaving me very impressed (configured in improved sampling with Sox mode to 192).
More details and more amplitude than Audirvana and better management of background noise inherent in the recordings.
Enjoying with ADI, my first equalization experiment and my Denon AH-7200 connected to Iem output...


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## mixman

How do most of you hook up an external head amp like a THX 789 to your RME’s?  i use my XLR outputs to feed my Adam A5X monitor speakers, So can I use the 1/4" headphone out to the THX input?


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## MikeW (Feb 8, 2019)

The unit also has single ended rca output in addition to balanced output. I’d use the rca line out.

Using the headphone out is not recommended, you’d be double amping. And adding the RME’s head amp flavor to your THX. Not a good idea


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## mixman

MikeW said:


> The unit also has single ended rca output in addition to balanced output. I’d use the rca line out.
> 
> Using the headphone out is not recommended, you’d be double amping. And adding the RME’s head amp flavor to your THX. Not a good idea



I read the manual, but did not see where if you have the RCA output going to a head amp, that the XLR output would mute. I have my speakers on the XLR outputs and obviously I don't want them playing at the same time as I am using the THX and I don't want to have to physically turn off my speakers manually every time I use the RCA's.


----------



## captblaze

mixman said:


> I read the manual, but did not see where if you have the RCA output going to a head amp, that the XLR output would mute. I have my speakers on the XLR outputs and obviously I don't want them playing at the same time as I am using the THX and I don't want to have to physically turn off my speakers manually every time I use the RCA's.



I believe you are correct regarding being unable to switch the analog outputs off independently and would have to power down your speakers


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## mixman

captblaze said:


> I believe you are correct regarding being unable to switch the analog outputs off independently and would have to power down your speakers


 That’s what I thought. Which is the reason why I mentioned using the head amp output, but I guess that would be overkill as far as doubling up on sound signatures and maybe signal?


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## captblaze (Feb 8, 2019)

mixman said:


> That’s what I thought. Which is the reason why I mentioned using the head amp output, but I guess that would be overkill as far as doubling up on sound signatures and maybe signal?



can you use the head amp as a preamp to power the speakers and have headphone out?

I have a tube amp that cuts the analog out when a headphone is attached


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## Phoniac

MikeW said:


> The unit also has single ended rca output in addition to balanced output. I’d use the rca line out.
> 
> Using the headphone out is not recommended, you’d be double amping. And adding the RME’s head amp flavor to your THX. Not a good idea



I disagree. The headphone out does not have any flavour, it is absolutely clean, and can operate as perfect line output (that is also mentioned somewhere in the manual). Just unbalanced, but due to 0.1 ohms better than any other line output, as it completely takes the cable quality out of the picture.

Adding the THX789 at this output lets you change the output at the DAC and gives volume ramping etc.

Personally I think the 789 makes no sense behind the DAC, unless you use exotic low sensitivity phones like the HE-6 and K1000. You even loose all the protection circuits/functions that RME added to the ADI-2 DAC, because the output no longer draws current. From what I read the 789 has some protection too, but due to its much too high output power it will fry your phones in case of error even with protection... IMHO...


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## MikeW (Feb 10, 2019)

Do whatever you want, if you don't mind your signal going though an additional dozen op-amps and who knows what cap's before it get's to your 789, more power to you. Listen to them and make up your own mind.

@ Phoniac, im curious what you mean by the 789 not being worth it behind the DAC. Are you implying that the built in head-amp is equal to or greater than the 789. If so, how did you come to that conclusion? This is an honest question, I want to be clear that im not being sarcastic, as Im considering pairing these two together myself. If you have experience directly with the two, I'd love to hear it. My main phone right now is HD650.

As far as my experience, I still don't have as much head-time as i'd like, with a broken in unit. But I have the ADI-2 DAC paired with the Schiit Jotunheim. I have been trying out the built in head-amp, and the Jotunheim. At first I felt the Jotunheim was clearly superior, but i've been burning in the head-amp, and doing more critical listening. Now im not so sure, it seems more a preference of flavor then technical ability. While the Jotunheim is technically capable of pumping more power into a 300 ohm load, neither device is wanting for power/volume.

I find the bass notes clearer, and the high's also clearer on the Built in amp. Though the Jotunhiem tends to be more "3D", and tends to be superior with regards to image, and placement of instruments. It's bass also hits a bit harder, but is not cleaner.

Jotunheim is superior with regards to a sense of "Air" and feeling the room. Perhaps slightly more "natural". It's not cut and dry though, as the ADI's built in amp does have superior resolution across the board, with regards to bass and high's. Neither are sibilant or harsh with the ADI's dac driving things.

I find Jotunheim more musical, and ADI leaving me wanting, for something.. I do want to pair it with a higher end amp. Im considering, THX789, Schiit Valhalla 2, Monoprice Liquid Platinum, Nerochrome HPA-1, LYR3, or perhaps Feliks.

A quick comparison to my previous DAC, Schiit Bimby GEN5:

Find the RME to be far more detailed, with more resolution, and a much cleaner presentation overall. The various feature's of the unit are a huge bonus, particularly the PEQ, crossfeed, volume control, multiple out's, etc.

Bimby simply "falls apart" at certain types of content, this is true for Mimby and Multibit Dac module as well. All three are more "Natural" sounding then RME ADI-2. Though, that said, I find RME-ADI-2 to be warm-neutral, and quite pleasant to listen to, I would not call it Sabre clinical. Certain passages of music cause Bimby/MImby/Multibit Module to fail, spectacularly, the RME-ADI-2 has none of this, for awhile I thought it was Jotunheim, but it's in fact the lower end schiit multibit dac's. A great example of this behavior is in the track "Everyone's looking for home" by Sam Outlaw. At about 2 minutes in, there's a huge horn crecendo, all of the lower end schiit multibit just sounds awful in this passage. To be fair, the bimby sounds far better then the Multibit Module, but it's not close to the RME-ADI-2 here. I found this "issue" with these lower end multibit options particularly irritating. I don't know if the problem persist with Gungnir and/or Yggdrasil.

According to RME the ADI-2 DAC needs no break in. I don't agree based on what I've heard with the unit. Sounds kind of plastic at first, it takes 100 hours or so before it open's up. (particularly, the head-amp)


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## Phoniac (Feb 10, 2019)

MikeW, I also don't want to be sarcastic or attacking anyone, just simply present a few easy to research facts.



MikeW said:


> Do whatever you want, if you don't mind your signal going though an additional dozen op-amps and who knows what cap's before it get's to your 789, more power to you. Listen to them and make up your own mind.



But there are not many facts in  this statement. You are not aware that the ADI-2 DAC is fully DC coupled? Not a single capacitor in the signal path. Also the number of op-amps in the signal path doesn't differ between XLR output and phones output. What you wrote would happen if inside the unit the phones circuit is getting its signal from the XLR outputs. I am sure this is not the case. The unit has 4 reference levels for the XLR and RCA output, but only two for the phones output. The logical reason for me is that both circuits get their signal directly from the DAC itself, in parallel. I also don't think RME would be so stupid to take the phones signal from the XLR output and pass it through another gain stage - that really makes no sense.



MikeW said:


> @ Phoniac, im curious what you mean by the 789 not being worth it behind the DAC. Are you implying that the built in head-amp is equal to or greater than the 789. If so, how did you come to that conclusion? This is an honest question, I want to be clear that im not being sarcastic, as Im considering pairing these two together myself. If you have experience directly with the two, I'd love to hear it. My main phone right now is HD650.



I have the HD650 as well, the ADI can drive the HD650 into distortion when set to High Power, more power is really not needed. So what advantage can the THX unit give then? Less noise, less THD, more transparent sound? None of them. The limiting factor is the DAC chip of the ADI-2 DAC, not the headphone amp. No matter if you use the internal one or the THX, noise and distortion will be identical, and both are known to be highly transparent sounding. If you need to change the sound colour you seem to look for the wrong amp.



MikeW said:


> I find Jotunheim more musical, and ADI leaving me wanting, for something.. I do want to pair it with a higher end amp.



You are looking for small nuances only. Why not use the tools built into the ADI-2 DAC to give you whatever sound you like? Bass and Treble as well as the PEQ and the different filters gives you a lot to play with. Using it very carefully (1 or 2 dB of attenuation or gain) might give you the small changes in sound that you like.

Edit: if you want to know the details of internal signal paths you should ask in the RME forum where the designers of the ADI-2 DAC answer questions.


----------



## Arniesb

Phoniac said:


> MikeW, I also don't want to be sarcastic or attacking anyone, just simply present a few easy to research facts.
> Show me High end Amplifier with crappy switching power supply.
> 
> 
> ...


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## MikeW (Feb 10, 2019)

I love the PEQ, use it to EQ the HD650 closer to a harman curve. It's a great EQ. Jotunheim and ADI's head-amp are different. I can't make one sound like the other with only EQ. I do know the ADI-2's got 6 OP-amp's in it's headphone output circuit, 3 per channel. I don't think the RCA or XLR output's go though this circuit. So from what I gather, you have in fact not heard the THX 789 paired with this dac. Too bad, really wanted your honest impression. Wasn't trying to start a theory craft debate here, only offering my actual listening impressions with gear that I own. If you don't appreciate the small nuances your in the wrong hobby, and the wrong forum.


----------



## Phoniac

MikeW said:


> I do know the ADI-2's got 6 OP-amp's in it's headphone output circuit, 3 per channel.



Yes, but these are all in parallel to deliver more current for low impedance phones. The audio is not runing throught them serially. So technically, in terms of sound influence, they count as one op-amp only.



MikeW said:


> If you don't appreciate the small nuances your in the wrong hobby, and the wrong forum.



Very polite, thank you.


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## MikeW (Feb 10, 2019)

Not sure what Arnie's qoute was, but looks like he caught you talking about "crappy high end amplifier with Switch mode Power supply" that did not make it to your final post. So im assuming you thought Jotunheim had a switch mode Power Supply, which it does not, but it makes no difference, as their are in fact high end amplifier's with switch mode PSU's, like the Neurochrome HPA-1, and Monoprice Liquid Platinum.. not to mention the RME-ADI-2 itself uses switch mode. If it was not you that said that, then this is directed towards whoever thinks SMPS= trash by default.

I actually do appreciate your theory, that the THX789, being a clean and transparent amp, will not benefit the RME-ADI-2. I wish you had some actual ear time with the pair, but the input is welcome.


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## Arniesb

MikeW said:


> Not sure what Arnie's qoute was, but looks like he caught you talking about "****ty high end amplifier with Switch mode Power supply" that did not make it to your final post. So im assuming you thought Jotunheim had a switch mode Power Supply, which it does not, but it makes no difference, as their are in fact high end amplifier's with switch mode PSU's, like the Neurochrome HPA-1, and Monoprice Liquid Platinum.. not to mention the RME-ADI-2 itself uses switch mode. If it was not you that said that, then this is directed towards whoever thinks SMPS= trash by default.


Something with a post gone wrong. Good Linear power supply > switching supply any day of the week end of story. Tell me why such well regarded companies like HeadAmp, Pass Labs, Niimbus and a lot more use use expensive very well engineered linear supplies if Switching supplies is enough? I tell you that because they can save money on bigger chassis, save money needed for costlier implementations. Look at head amp. They use switching supply for least expensive amp for a reason.


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## MikeW (Feb 10, 2019)

I don't think  SMPS has been able to deliver the kind of performance needed until recently. This is why we are seeing it more and more in higher end design's... THX 789, Liquid Platinum... Neurochrome HPA-1.. there are other examples. I think LPS has been the status quo for a long time, and old engineer's are stubborn and stick with what they know. They are expensive, big, hot, and heavy, and likely on their way out. There are other considerations in the circuit that are more important. Schiit Vali-2 uses a LPS, lets see how it performs next to Liquid Platinum... Modi 2 vs Modi 3?

Schiit LYR3 is almost HALF PSU.. look at pic's.. now we see it outperformed by SMPS Liquid Platinum in same size chasis..

Your also wrong in thinking that only expensive AMP's use Linear PSU's... Modi 1/2  have used LPS since the beginning... 99$ products. Schiit recently, with the latest revision moved them to SMPS because they could offer more performance at the same budget.

Ancedotally, i've got an Ifi iPower 9v and compared it to a cheap chi-fi ebay LPS, and found it superior. LPS only makes sense when it's done right, and that cost money, often times money that would be better spent elsewhere at the given budget. If you've got 1000$ to build a device, maybe the money would be better spent elsewhere then expensive LPS. If you've got 10,000$ perhaps it's worth the splurge. Does the 14000$ Chord Dave use a LPS?

Lets not get confused, im not saying the built in amp of the RME-ADI-2 is some kind of TOTL end-game solution. But I won't pidgeon-hole it because it's using SMPS. Phoniac's suggestion that THX789 may be to close to ADI-2's head amp to be a worthwhile move, may be correct. I'd have to audition them to know, that's why im also considering Tube and tube hybrid options.


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## mixman

Wow, I can see I set of a big technical discussion, which is good as long as we all learn something. I am not using the THX789 to change the sound signature as much as I am trying to give myself headroom for driving HP's that I may possibly buy like HD800's or HEK V2's.or possibly a DT770  250ohm. Hopefully no HE-6's but.......


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## Slaphead

MikeW said:


> Lets not get confused, im not saying the built in amp of the RME-ADI-2 is some kind of TOTL end-game solution.



Maybe not if the only criteria is the inbuilt head-amp, but the the ADI-2 damn well could be if you make use of all the other things it can do.

I'd say that if you buy this purely for headphone use then it's good, it's more than OK for the money, especially if the headphones you're using aren't to demanding on power, but the value proposition begins to kick in if you make use of the inbuilt PEQ and crossfeed functions.

Where the value proposition really kicks in is when you are using this device as a DAC and preamp for a power amplifier or high end powered monitors, or even using it as a pure DAC to drive another head amp or pre-amp.

This device is incredibly multifaceted and on top of that it really does deliver the audio goods. There's really nothing else quite like it on the market at the moment, and even if you're only going to use half it's functions it's a bargain IMO.

As for the SMPS situation, yeah RME supplies it with a SMPS, but you can use a LPS if you really want. That said many people who've tried a LPS with it haven't heard much of a difference - if any, probably due to the fact that the ADI-2 DAC does a very good job of cleaning up the power before it reaches the critical stuff.

I bought this, and if I thought it needed to be shoved in the toilet then I'd say so. I'm not one to hang on to "pride of purchase" or justifying my purchase by attempting convince myself that it's good - believe me when I say that I've bought my share of expensive stinkers. However this is a stunning device that totally fits my requirements, and then some.


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## MikeW

Yeah I agree, I use the Dac, head amp, and also xlr to powered monitors, I also use the EQ to do some mild room correction for my monitors, and the peq on headphones to my taste. I love
The volume control as well. I may get a liquid platinum later, which has no gain control so Dac based volume control is great. This device really does have no equal right now. I’m even considering purchasing some 800$-1500$ IEM’s for
It and calling it quits.


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## mixman

OK, got the THX AAA and hooked it up the the RME several different ways. Via the headphone out that was powerful, only sounded mildly different than just the RME's amp alone. Next I tried the RCA out and there was a little more difference a little more high end  and slight bit more clarity. I then tried the balanced output and that was the biggest difference. Definitely more treble, more clarity, and surprisingly more dynamic too. Boosted the REF Volume to +7 and the THX seemed to have even better headroom. Unfortunately, now I am going to have to put my Adam A5X on the RCA outs of the RME, hopefully that doesn't kill their sound.


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## captblaze

mixman said:


> Unfortunately, now I am going to have to put my Adam A5X on the RCA outs of the RME, hopefully that doesn't kill their sound.



doesn't the THX AAA have a bypass function you could use in order to employ only one output on the DAC and have the head amp handle output to both.

speakers (in bypass mode) and headphones via direct connection?


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## mixman

captblaze said:


> doesn't the THX AAA have a bypass function you could use in order to employ only one output on the DAC and have the head amp handle output to both.
> 
> speakers (in bypass mode) and headphones via direct connection?



The SE bypass and the XLR input on the THX do not interact, so it would still be a choice between whether I want to use the XLR outputs of the RME on the THX or the Adams.


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## Slaphead

mixman said:


> OK, got the THX AAA and hooked it up the the RME several different ways. Via the headphone out that was powerful, only sounded mildly different than just the RME's amp alone. Next I tried the RCA out and there was a little more difference a little more high end  and slight bit more clarity.* I then tried the balanced output and that was the biggest difference. Definitely more treble, more clarity, and surprisingly more dynamic too*. Boosted the REF Volume to +7 and the THX seemed to have even better headroom. Unfortunately, now I am going to have to put my Adam A5X on the RCA outs of the RME, hopefully that doesn't kill their sound.



Are you sure you didn't just encounter a bit of a volume boost? That pretty much always makes things sound more dynamic. The reason I ask is that the balanced outputs are 6dBu higher than the RCA outputs, effectively doubling the amplitude, so if you're comparing like for like at the same volume level then the RCA connections will sound quieter, and less dynamic. Maybe try again with the RCA but crank the volume up on the ADI-2 by 6dB to see if that was the issue. If that solves the problem then there's no reason to not drive your Adams via XLR.


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## MikeW

Xlr on pro monitor is mostly for super long 50 ft runs and ground loop solution. If your monitors are 3-6 ft away it likely will have no impact


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## MikeW (Feb 16, 2019)

Furthermore thx789 is not proper balanced an their is a summing circuit on its balanced input, that introduces more op-amp in signal path, the ideal input for 789 is in fact SE in and balanced headphone out.

This has been discussed already and is clearly evident looking at 789 PCB. There's a bunch of ignorant people in the 789 thread who only believe marketing and know nothing of basic electronics. One guy even linked me the marketing page for the 789  AAA and said! look see, it's proprietary! it can only be made by THX! Another guy just assumed because it had balanced input, that was the obvious and clear/best choice, again, knowing nothing even on a basic level of how the device functions. Seems like alot of kids/young people purchased that amp and just believed the marketing spiel hook line and sinker. 

It's a great amplifier for 350$, no doubt about it, with very clever engineering, and a unique topology. Well worth it's asking price. It's also, not proprietary, and does run it's balanced input though a summing circuit involving multiple 1602a op-amps, this does not happen on the SE input. It's also hugely Flavor of the Month, and massdrop will crank out 20k of them in no time, you'll see them widely available used for like 200 bucks or so in a year or less. Meanwhile, Chinese and other firm's will quickly clone this, and/or implement the feed-forward circuit into their own designs. It's a net win for everyone really, perhaps bring this tech to the masses.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Good evening everyone,
Just a quick question concering my ADI-2 DAC outputs.
am i able to put a headphone in the "phones" out and a pair of headphones (super efficient) in the "IEM" output and play music so two people can listen at the same time? 
A friend of mine wants to also listen to music with me.


----------



## JerkChicken

Tsukuyomi said:


> Good evening everyone,
> Just a quick question concering my ADI-2 DAC outputs.
> am i able to put a headphone in the "phones" out and a pair of headphones (super efficient) in the "IEM" output and play music so two people can listen at the same time?
> A friend of mine wants to also listen to music with me.



Yes you can listen to both the IEM and phones output at the same time. Just bear in mind the sensitivity of each other’s HP


----------



## technobear

Tsukuyomi said:


> Good evening everyone,
> Just a quick question concering my ADI-2 DAC outputs.
> am i able to put a headphone in the "phones" out and a pair of headphones (super efficient) in the "IEM" output and play music so two people can listen at the same time?
> A friend of mine wants to also listen to music with me.


See user manual page 36 (you did read the manual, right?)

DSP settings are remembered separately for each output (LINE, PHONES, IEM).

If you have not disabled Line Out when Phones are inserted, the Line Out settings will be used.

Otherwise whichever Phones you plugged in first will dictate the DSP settings.

As already stated by the last poster, you may have volume control issues depending on the sensitivity and impedance of the Phones and IEMs.


----------



## mixman

MikeW said:


> Furthermore thx789 is not proper balanced an their is a summing circuit on its balanced input, that introduces more op-amp in signal path, the ideal input for 789 is in fact SE in and balanced headphone out.
> 
> This has been discussed already and is clearly evident looking at 789 PCB. There's a bunch of ignorant people in the 789 thread who only believe marketing and know nothing of basic electronics. One guy even linked me the marketing page for the 789  AAA and said! look see, it's proprietary! it can only be made by THX! Another guy just assumed because it had balanced input, that was the obvious and clear/best choice, again, knowing nothing even on a basic level of how the device functions. Seems like alot of kids/young people purchased that amp and just believed the marketing spiel hook line and sinker.
> 
> It's a great amplifier for 350$, no doubt about it, with very clever engineering, and a unique topology. Well worth it's asking price. It's also, not proprietary, and does run it's balanced input though a summing circuit involving multiple 1602a op-amps, this does not happen on the SE input. It's also hugely Flavor of the Month, and massdrop will crank out 20k of them in no time, you'll see them widely available used for like 200 bucks or so in a year or less. Meanwhile, Chinese and other firm's will quickly clone this, and/or implement the feed-forward circuit into their own designs. It's a net win for everyone really, perhaps bring this tech to the masses.



OK, I tried several inputs and you were right. The SE input on the THX is better sounding. I also went back and forth between the sound of the THX and straight into the RME. While very close, I preferred the sound of the RME. Slightly more highs, clearer bass.

Now, what amp would be a clear improvement over that of the RME for under let's say $1K?


----------



## Tsukuyomi

mixman said:


> OK, I tried several inputs and you were right. The SE input on the THX is better sounding. I also went back and forth between the sound of the THX and straight into the RME. While very close, I preferred the sound of the RME. Slightly more highs, clearer bass.
> 
> Now, what amp would be a clear improvement over that of the RME for under let's say $1K?


I've heard that the violectric HPAV100 is a better amp. but since i did own the HPAv200 before. i can tell you that in the v200s case its not true. the amp for the RME ADI-2 DAC is better imo.


----------



## NickedWicked

Tsukuyomi said:


> I've heard that the violectric HPAV100 is a better amp. but since i did own the HPAv200 before. i can tell you that in the v200s case its not true. the amp for the RME ADI-2 DAC is better imo.



I'd say the V281 is a neat little upgrade to the ADI-2 DAC amp, but I wouldn't say a clear improvement, it's just more compatible with different kinds of headphones.


----------



## mixman

Tsukuyomi said:


> I've heard that the violectric HPAV100 is a better amp. but since i did own the HPAv200 before. i can tell you that in the v200s case its not true. the amp for the RME ADI-2 DAC is better imo.



Seems like the little RME amp is not too bad, just not balanced. Seems like you have to pay a good amount to do better.


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## jerick70

mixman said:


> Seems like the little RME amp is not too bad, just not balanced. Seems like you have to pay a good amount to do better.


The amp on the ADI-2 Pro is balanced and does preform better than the DAC amp.  But the Pro also cost $1000 more than the DAC.  I've owned both.  Just food for thought.


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## Tsukuyomi

jerick70 said:


> The amp on the ADI-2 Pro is balanced and does preform better than the DAC amp.  But the Pro also cost $1000 more than the DAC.  I've owned both.  Just food for thought.


Thats exactly what ive heard before. I have to agree from popular opinion. The pro does have more power but the price is almost double..


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## Tsukuyomi

mixman said:


> Seems like the little RME amp is not too bad, just not balanced. Seems like you have to pay a good amount to do better.


For 95% of most audio enthusiasts, it will be more than enough. For the 5% they will usually avoid buying 2 in 1 units. And prefer to buy an amp and dac unit separately so they can have more freedom for changing and upgrading.


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## mixman

jerick70 said:


> The amp on the ADI-2 Pro is balanced and does preform better than the DAC amp.  But the Pro also cost $1000 more than the DAC.  I've owned both.  Just food for thought.



Is the HP amp in the Pro much more powerful than that of the DAC, will it sound better too? Same converters right, just two of them? With the Pro you lose the remote, but yes you do get balanced, also get AD conversion, which I understand makes it good for Vinyl conversion. It just seems like overkill for what we are doing.


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## jerick70 (Feb 20, 2019)

mixman said:


> Is the HP amp in the Pro much more powerful than that of the DAC, will it sound better too? Same converters right, just two of them? With the Pro you lose the remote, but yes you do get balanced, also get AD conversion, which I understand makes it good for Vinyl conversion. It just seems like overkill for what we are doing.


According to the specs the Pro is more powerful.  I thought the sound was better out of the Pro compared to the DAC.  YMMV.

*ADI-2 Pro* taken from here: http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/adi_2-pro.php

*Phones 1/2*
As Output 1/2 TS, but:
• Output: 6.3 mm TRS jack, unbalanced, stereo
• Output impedance: 0.1 Ohm
• Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) @ +22 dBu: 117 dB RMS unweighted, 120 dBA
• Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) @ +7 dBu: 114 dB RMS unweighted, 118 dBA
• Output level at 0 dBFS, Ref Level +19 dBu, load 100 Ohm or up: +22 dBu (10 V)
• Output level at 0 dBFS, Ref Level +4 dBu, load 8 Ohm or up: +7 dBu (1.73 V)
• THD @ +18 dBu, 32 Ohm load, 1.2 Watt: -110 dB, 0.0003 %
• THD+N @ + 18 dBu, 32 Ohm load: -107 dB, 0.00045 %
• THD @ +14 dBu, 16 Ohm load, 0.94 Watt: -110 dB

*Output Phones 3/4*
As Output Phones 1/2, but:
• Output levels at 0 dBFS: Hi-Power off +7 dBu, Hi-Power On +22 dBu

*Balanced Phones mode*
As before, but:
• Output levels at 0 dBFS: Hi-Power off +13 dBu (9.8 V), Hi-Power On +28 dBu (19.5 V)
• Output impedance: 0.2 Ohm
• Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) @ +28 dBu: 120 dB RMS unweighted, 123 dBA
• Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) @ +13 dBu: 118.4 dB RMS unweighted, 122 dBA
• Output level at 0 dBFS, Hi-Power On, load 150 Ohm or up: +28 dBu (19.5 V)
• Output level at 0 dBFS, Hi-Power Off, load 8 Ohm or up: +13 dBu (9.8 V)
• Max power @ 0.001% THD: 2.9 W per channel

*ADI-2 DAC* taken from here: http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/adi_2-dac.php

*Phones*
As Cinch but:
• Output: 6.3 mm TRS jack, unbalanced, stereo
• Output impedance: 0.1 Ohm
• Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) @ +22 dBu: 117 dB RMS unweighted, 120 dBA
• Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) @ +7 dBu: 116 dB RMS unweighted, 119 dBA
• Output level at 0 dBFS, High Power, load 100 Ohm or up: +22 dBu (10 V)
• Output level at 0 dBFS, Low Power, load 8 Ohm or up: +7 dBu (1.73 V)
• THD @ +18 dBu, 32 Ohm load, 1.2 Watt: -110 dB, 0.0003 %
• THD+N @ + 18 dBu, 32 Ohm load: -107 dB, 0.00045 %
• THD @ +14 dBu, 16 Ohm load, 0.94 Watt: -110 dB, 0.0003 %
• Max power @ 0.001% THD: 1.5 W per channel


----------



## mixman

jerick70 said:


> According to the specs the Pro is more powerful.  I thought the sound was better out of the Pro compared to the DAC.  YMMV.
> 
> *ADI-2 Pro* taken from here: http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/adi_2-pro.php
> 
> ...



Same converter chip, just that the Pro has two correct?


----------



## jerick70

mixman said:


> Same converter chip, just that the Pro has two correct?


Yes.  AKM4490EQ


----------



## MikeW (Feb 20, 2019)

I recently purchased a Monoprice liquid platinum to go with my ADI-2. Will give impressions once I receive it and give it some listening, you can't hardly buy a pro-ish, product without a built in headphone amp they all have em... lavry, benchmark, mytek, rme, dangerous, etc.. I find  your comparison to the 789 interesting. I've not heard the 789 but I figured it would be a little better then RME's headamp, but it seems like it's mostly comparable from your impression. Im glad I decided to not get one, at least with the Liquid Platinum it's a tube hybrid so even if it's not technically better, it will give some nice tube coloration. I've been without my RME for about a week now, sent it back to Synthax for RMA of defect, still waiting for a replacement, im ready to have it back.. I will say I was/am pretty impressed and surprised by the headamp's performance, as some had led me to believe that it was nothing special and an afterthought/convenience amp. While it may not be the last word in amp power, i'd certainly not describe it as "just there for convenience" or low performance.. not at all. Considering the price of the DAC, it's often paired with end game amps and 1k-3k amps, im sure it does not compare favorably in that scenario, nor should it. But these people forget what a 500$ head-amp sounds like.


----------



## lukeslens

MikeW said:


> I recently purchased a Monoprice liquid platinum to go with my ADI-2. Will give impressions once I receive it and give it some listening, you can't hardly buy a pro-ish, product without a built in headphone amp they all have em... lavry, benchmark, mytek, rme, dangerous, etc.. I find  your comparison to the 789 interesting. I've not heard the 789 but I figured it would be a little better then RME's headamp, but it seems like it's mostly comparable from your impression. Im glad I decided to not get one, at least with the Liquid Platinum it's a tube hybrid so even if it's not technically better, it will give some nice tube coloration. I've been without my RME for about a week now, sent it back to Synthax for RMA of defect, still waiting for a replacement, im ready to have it back.. I will say I was/am pretty impressed and surprised by the headamp's performance, as some had led me to believe that it was nothing special and an afterthought/convenience amp. While it may not be the last word in amp power, i'd certainly not describe it as "just there for convenience" or low performance.. not at all. Considering the price of the DAC, it's often paired with end game amps and 1k-3k amps, im sure it does not compare favorably in that scenario, nor should it. But these people forget what a 500$ head-amp sounds like.



Will be VERY interested in your impressions of the LP and the ADI-2. I'm hoping to have a similar set-up for my Clears. Am pretty hooked on the balanced performance of the Clears so landed on the RME for a Dac (hopefully soon) but I do like a little color to my sound, especially on the Clears which I love but I feel will probably benefit from some EQ and tubeness. So I'm hoping the LP+ADI2 is the ticket there, but it may be awhile before I can snag the two so will very much be looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## BrainFood (Feb 21, 2019)

Good to join the club! Sound quality is really clean with loads of fine detail, and refreshingly less forward than my previous sabre DAC

Only negative I can think of (for me at least) is that connecting cans/iems mutes the line outs, to speakers in my case. So, there appears no way of leaving the cans plugged in permanently and turning their output off from within the menu or remote command. It's no biggie but I would have preferred less plugging/ unplugging.


----------



## Anaz

BrainFood said:


> Good to join the club! Sound quality is really clean with loads of fine detail, and refreshingly less forward than my previous sabre DAC
> 
> Only negative I can think of (for me at least) is that connecting cans/iems mutes the line outs, to speakers in my case. So, there appears no way of leaving the cans plugged in permanently and turning their output off from within the menu or remote command. It's no biggie for sure but I would have preferred less plugging/ unplugging.
> 
> Any recommendations for cans that match the ADI-2 well up to, say, 300ish euros?  On proviso is that they need to be reasonably tight fitting for smaller heads.  Closed or open back fine..   thanks!



There’s a setting (Setup -> Device Mode -> Mute Line) to allow you to manually toggle between headphones/IEMs and line out by pressing the volume button.


----------



## BrainFood

I was hoping there might be somewhere. Thanks!


----------



## mixman

MikeW said:


> I recently purchased a Monoprice liquid platinum to go with my ADI-2. Will give impressions once I receive it and give it some listening, you can't hardly buy a pro-ish, product without a built in headphone amp they all have em... lavry, benchmark, mytek, rme, dangerous, etc.. I find  your comparison to the 789 interesting. I've not heard the 789 but I figured it would be a little better then RME's headamp, but it seems like it's mostly comparable from your impression. Im glad I decided to not get one, at least with the Liquid Platinum it's a tube hybrid so even if it's not technically better, it will give some nice tube coloration. I've been without my RME for about a week now, sent it back to Synthax for RMA of defect, still waiting for a replacement, im ready to have it back.. I will say I was/am pretty impressed and surprised by the headamp's performance, as some had led me to believe that it was nothing special and an afterthought/convenience amp. While it may not be the last word in amp power, i'd certainly not describe it as "just there for convenience" or low performance.. not at all. Considering the price of the DAC, it's often paired with end game amps and 1k-3k amps, im sure it does not compare favorably in that scenario, nor should it. But these people forget what a 500$ head-amp sounds like.



Interested in the outcome of the comparison with the LP. I see they are on backorder until 4/16. If I really find myself buying a hard to drive HP like an HE6, I am thinking of perhaps. an Audio gd NFB-1 or something like that.


----------



## MikeW

Got the liquid platinum in today, but only have motherboard audio as a source (yuck).. it's decent as far as that thing go's.. Realtek 1150 with a dedicated op-amp but still trash compared to what im used to. The ADI-2 will be back in the house next wednesday.


----------



## lukeslens

MikeW said:


> Got the liquid platinum in today, but only have motherboard audio as a source (yuck).. it's decent as far as that thing go's.. Realtek 1150 with a dedicated op-amp but still trash compared to what im used to. The ADI-2 will be back in the house next wednesday.


The suspense is killing me!

Are you just using stock tubes for now?


----------



## MikeW

Yeah, I just got the LP in today, and I haven't had much time to listen to it yet. Just stock tubes for now, some russian 6922's.


----------



## Stopeter44bis

I just bought one here :

http://www.lemicrophone.fr/produit.php?ref=4260123363178&id_rubrique=272

Useful for French members, currently (Feb 2019) 50€ cheaper than Thomann.

I would have waited, because I am right in the middle of moving house,  but needs must ....

The do not appear to deliver outside France if bought on the website. I bought through the website, but went to the shop (not far from Metro Pigalle, in Paris).


----------



## lukeslens

ADI-2's showed up on Amazon Prime again, so I just ordered one. Should be hear on Wed. Looking forward to trying it on my CMA600i. Just wish I could get a Liquid Platinum to compare with it.


----------



## Quinto

I am liking my ADI-2 a lot more since it made some hours ..the tonality improved quite a bit..It does great with my HD800S, so darn clean


----------



## Stopeter44bis

I've been pondering using the RME-ADI 2 DAC with an android phone, via USB-C connection and a something like this : 

https://www.amazon.com/Qicai-USB-HD...gateway&sprefix=3+port+usb+c+,aps,213&sr=8-16

Anyone tried anything similar ?


----------



## Giacomino

[QUOTE = "Quinto, post: 14803297, membro: 120902"] Mi piace molto di più il mio ADI-2 da quando ha fatto alcune ore ... la tonalità è migliorata un bel po '... Fa benissimo con il mio HD800S, quindi dannatamente pulito [/CITAZIONE]

Eccellente Rme con HD800S per me ... Two is better than one, tell me if it's not love!


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Dude, why two? Looks great but... one for home and one for the office or just back up?


----------



## Luckbad

I carry mine to and from work every day in a carrying case. If I could afford it, I'd probably have two.


----------



## mixman

Two, that's hardcore!


----------



## audiobill

For those interested in a published review, Hi-Fi Plus just posted their take on the RME ADI-2 DAC: http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/rme-adi-2-dac-digital-converterheadphone-amplifier/


----------



## MikeW (Feb 27, 2019)

The ADI-2's back in the house... sorely missed. What a great piece of gear. I'll try to get some head time over the next week and post some impressions of the pairing with Liquid Platinum. Hooked up balanced out into balanced input of LP. It's gonna be really hard to move onto a product with less features in the future. This thing has spoiled me, particularly the volume, display, crossfeed, filters, and PEQ. Im a big believer in EQ so that is a game changer for me.. how the hell am I supposed to move on to a lesser product.


----------



## MikeW

Quinto said:


> I am liking my ADI-2 a lot more since it made some hours ..the tonality improved quite a bit..It does great with my HD800S, so darn clean



 yeah, the burn in's real, I noticed this with mine, took a solid 100 hours for things to start opening up. Don't know if it effects just the headphone amp or the whole dac, was listening to it as an AIO at the time.


----------



## lukeslens

Just got my ADI-2 in this afternoon. Spent a couple hours dialing in the EQ. So far it's impressing the hell out of me. It only has a few hours on it so I can't imagine what it will sound like with 50 or even 100. The ability to dial in the sound with immediate feedback in my Clears was game-changing for me. I have been almost positive that I want to upgrade to a Qutest, but I don't know now. I was so worried about the ADI-2 being too analytical or boring but that's just not the case. 

I'm desperate to hear your experience with the ADI-2 and the Liquid Platinum, @MikeW, cause I'm thinking that might be the set-up I go for. As I'm listening to the ADI-2 all I can think of that could improve the performance between this and my Focal Clears is a good balanced tube amp.


----------



## lukeslens

Here's pics from my setup.


----------



## penguinofsleep2

lukeslens said:


> ....
> 
> I'm desperate to hear your experience with the ADI-2 and the Liquid Platinum, @MikeW, ...



Me as well


----------



## tekkster

So jealous of everyone with all these beautiful layouts for their equipment.

all my gear is a mess of badly aligned boxes, and a chaotic mess of cables on my work desk.


----------



## MikeW

Have to be patient for my thoughts on how it pair's with the LP, I don't want to rush things. Need some head time to properly evaluate them. I've heard very analytical and boring dac's before, and the ADI-2 is definitely not in that category. Though most implementations of the 4490 are warmish/neutral with decent musicality. Sabre is what makes you want to plug you years in my experience. That shelf im using is a 30$ monitor riser on amazon.. it's nice and vented so helps keep the LP cool, which runs a bit on the hot side, not something you'd want to stack really. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FN556G3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Overclocked11

I want one of these so bad.. Not to say I'm not happy with my current setup (Teac UD-501 & Lake People G109).. I mean, its great.. but this unit looks like it could potentially replace both for my desktop setup (Atticus / IMR R1.. plus future IEMs)

A headphone store near to me has them in house so I may go to take it for a test drive one of these days and see if I like it. It truly looks awesome and reads like it is a stellar all-rounder.


----------



## talmadge

MikeW said:


> The ADI-2's back in the house... sorely missed. What a great piece of gear. I'll try to get some head time over the next week and post some impressions of the pairing with Liquid Platinum. Hooked up balanced out into balanced input of LP. It's gonna be really hard to move onto a product with less features in the future. This thing has spoiled me, particularly the volume, display, crossfeed, filters, and PEQ. Im a big believer in EQ so that is a game changer for me.. how the hell am I supposed to move on to a lesser product.





Where did you get the shelf and what brand is it?


----------



## MikeW (Mar 1, 2019)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FN556G3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Spent a good part of the day tweaking my JBL LSR305's and EQ curves for HD650. Still need some more head time with Liquid Platinum before im ready to post a review. The Liquid platinum is great, I got both pieces of gear around the same time though, and honestly I really really like the liquid platinum(best headamp i've owned), but I absolutely love the ADI-2. Probably the best piece of audio gear i've ever purchased. To be clear, im talking overall. Not the headamp section. While the LP has an excellent headamp, competive with the best 350-500$ amps around IMHO. The LP's a bit of a step up.


----------



## talmadge

Thanks


----------



## lukeslens

MikeW said:


> Spent a good part of the day tweaking my JBL LSR305's and EQ curves for HD650. Still need some more head time with Liquid Platinum before im ready to post a review. The Liquid platinum is great, I got both pieces of gear around the same time though, and honestly I really really like the liquid platinum(best headamp i've owned), but I absolutely love the ADI-2. Probably the best piece of audio gear i've ever purchased. To be clear, im talking overall. Not the headamp section. While the LP has an excellent headamp, competive with the best 350-500$ amps around IMHO. The LP's a bit of a step up.



I'm hoping to pull the trigger on a Liquid Platinum next week. Until then, I'm just blown away by the ADI-2. I was almost positive I was going to try it out and still end up upgrading to a Qutest, but now I don't know. The adjustments I'm able to make with this thing is just downright *addictive*!! And it sounds SO damn good. I can only imagine what kind of improvements I'll get by going full balanced on a Liquid Platinum. But until then, the ADI-2 into my CMA600i is, in and of itself, pretty goddamn phenomenal.


----------



## lukeslens (Mar 1, 2019)

Overclocked11 said:


> I want one of these so bad.. Not to say I'm not happy with my current setup (Teac UD-501 & Lake People G109)


 My main system dac was a Teac UD-501 that I've been using since 2015 or so. I've absolutely loved that thing and I just moved it to my office, but no doubt about it, the ADI-2 is pretty considerable upgrade.


----------



## Spareribs (Mar 2, 2019)

Nice specs. And the unit looks handsome too. Like a sharp well dressed gentleman. Looks like a serious candidate in the category of higher end audiophile gear. This could be my future DAC.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 2, 2019)

lukeslens said:


> I'm hoping to pull the trigger on a Liquid Platinum next week. Until then, I'm just blown away by the ADI-2. I was almost positive I was going to try it out and still end up upgrading to a Qutest, but now I don't know. The adjustments I'm able to make with this thing is just downright *addictive*!! And it sounds SO damn good. I can only imagine what kind of improvements I'll get by going full balanced on a Liquid Platinum. But until then, the ADI-2 into my CMA600i is, in and of itself, pretty goddamn phenomenal.



 You wouldn't be the only person to make that comparison and come out with an ADi-2. The features are hard to give up once acclimated to them.

You know it's weird when I copied that amazon link from amazon and posted it it looks different when clicked on and followed from these forums and the link address bar says "headfi 20" as the last entry. it's almost like any amazon link posted on these forums get automatically converted to an affiliate link. That's slick as snot. Glad to send Jude's kids to college haha


----------



## Luckbad

Wait, the ADI-2 DAC has features?

Oh, you mean these old things?

I'm watching a Tommy Emmanuel DVD that's panned right by about 5dB and correct for it with the balance setting (L41). The L/R volume readings are _after _that balance setting so it's easy to get it right
I want extra play in the volume knob on the SPL Phonitor XE, so I'm attenuating it on the RME
I wanted to compare the Phonitor's output vs. the Garage1217 Project Sunrise III as a preamp, so I'm using both the XLR and RCA outs simultaneously
The HD650 needs a lot more sub-bass, so I have some glorious parametric EQ engaged
I prefer the Slow filter on the DAC. Usually. But not always (sometimes I like Sharp). So I swap it sometimes on the fly.
I'm using a Phase Reversal Trick mod on my headphones so I reverse the polarity of the right channel on the RME
When I have a long background listening session, I engage crossfeed to reduce fatigue
When I worry about whether I'm getting the best signal to noise ratio, I just engage Auto Ref Level (almost always on lately)
Ew yuck, the stock display is white. Wait, I can just change that to Dark mode and it looks awesome. Done. Still too bright though. <adjusts>
Oh, features like that? I totally take them for granted now and don't know how I'd live without them.


----------



## talmadge

If I'm using the ADI-2 just as a dac all the features are still available correct? EQ, filters, etc.?


----------



## Luckbad

talmadge said:


> If I'm using the ADI-2 just as a dac all the features are still available correct? EQ, filters, etc.?



Yep. That's how I use it at home. At work it's my IEM all-in-one. At home, it's in front of an amp.


----------



## mixman

OK, how much do you have to spend to get a truly better amp than what's inside of the RME? I find that the THX 789 isn't really better, just different, and it has a balanced output. What are some better amps without having to spend $2K ?


----------



## MikeW (Mar 2, 2019)

Both the THX789 and Built in amp of the RME are brushing up against that wall of diminishing returns.  You can find better amps, but don't expect them to be dramatically better. I really want more time to evaluate the Liquid Platinum but im confident enough at this point to call it an upgrade, Neurochrome HPA-1 is probably an upgrade as well, technically, if you enjoy it's sound signature is another can of worms. It also really depends on what your looking for, if you want better tonality there are options such as tube pre-amps that you can pair with the 789 to get more from it. If tubes are your thing that is.

With regard to the Liquid platinum it is the most detailed and resolving hybrid amp i've ever heard. Usually tubes + resolving/detailed don't really go together until you get to TOTL range 3-5k stuff. LP manages to capture some of that magic at it's price point. Significantly better detail at the upper registers then Jotunheim, and comparable or better than the amp built into ADI. It's somewhat magical and really caught me by surprise. Jotunheim had great mid-bass and a nice midrange as well. It had a quantity of bass but quality is not up to LP or RME. The LP brings alot of refinement across the board, particularly with the high end, effortless and refined come to mind.

The area's that LP distances itself from the adi, are those of soundstaging, air, and 3D. The ADI is a very 2D sounding amp, it's not necessarily a negative, it just is what it is. LP has a real sense of space and air. Strings are incredible on LP.

Hey, look on the bright side, you might be able to sell the 789 to some dumb son of a bitch on ebay for 800$ and upgrade to the LP for free.


----------



## JSOppenheimer

Luckbad said:


> I totally take them for granted now and don't know how I'd live without them.


And not to even mention how seamlessly it all blends up together once you learn to use the unit. The UI may seem a bit clunky and intimidating at first, but once one learns the logic behind it, it's just so damn fast and easy to change the settings and presets to accomodate for every possible need you may ever have regarding headphones.

Honestly, the best description of the unit I've ever seen was when someone said that "ADI-2 DAC is the glue that binds my headphone setup together". And that it truly is, can't even imagine returning back to the usual "dumb" DAC + amp combos that lack the features that ADI-2 DAC offers.


----------



## MikeW

I agree with the above and it's almost annoying good, because if a better device comes along, that you may prefer sonically,  your going to definitely miss something about the adi-2.


----------



## kumar402

Has anyone compared the DSP of ADI with that offered by DMG Equillibrium or those of Roon. How different is using ROON OR DMG Adudiounits with audirvana along using a cheap clean DAC like SMSL SU8 or Mojo then using all in one unit of ADI. Considering laptop is the only source used.
I am asking this since I have already invested in Roon and DMG. Does it make sense to invest in ADI-2


----------



## Luckbad (Mar 2, 2019)

Even if you use none of the features, it's an outstanding DAC worth at least the asking price.

It's also one of _very _few devices that has excellent built-in USB (modern Schiit DACs, Soekris, and a couple other pro level devices being the only others I'd consider using USB for anymore).

Prior to the RME, I'd traditionally use a Lynx AES16e or E22 to feed AES/RCA/BNC into a DAC because the USB never cut it. 

As for the implementation of the DSP, it's incredible and it is onboard so it doesn't require you to monkey with stuff on multiple machines or limit yourself to particular software to use it.


----------



## mixman

MikeW said:


> Both the THX789 and Built in amp of the RME are brushing up against that wall of diminishing returns.  You can find better amps, but don't expect them to be dramatically better. I really want more time to evaluate the Liquid Platinum but im confident enough at this point to call it an upgrade, Neurochrome HPA-1 is probably an upgrade as well, technically, if you enjoy it's sound signature is another can of worms. It also really depends on what your looking for, if you want better tonality there are options such as tube pre-amps that you can pair with the 789 to get more from it. If tubes are your thing that is.
> 
> With regard to the Liquid platinum it is the most detailed and resolving hybrid amp i've ever heard. Usually tubes + resolving/detailed don't really go together until you get to TOTL range 3-5k stuff. LP manages to capture some of that magic at it's price point. Significantly better detail at the upper registers then Jotunheim, and comparable or better than the amp built into ADI. It's somewhat magical and really caught me by surprise. Jotunheim had great mid-bass and a nice midrange as well. It had a quantity of bass but quality is not up to LP or RME. The LP brings alot of refinement across the board, particularly with the high end, effortless and refined come to mind.
> 
> ...


Well seeing as Monoprice will be out of these for a while, it will give me time to to save up for this or look into something else. Soundstage  is exactly what I am looking for as an improvement. Extra power would be nice too. Not really a big tube fan either, but I do know in the Shangri La those  tubes sounded wonderful.


----------



## devante1977

As someone that used to connect the 789 to the RME, I can say that the power was welcomed but I'm not totally convinced it added anything substantial (meaning I wasn't disappointed but at the same time, I wasn't blown away). I use the LCD-X headphones and those are not hard to drive so YMMV depending on your choice of cans that have a higher impedance measurement. I sold that amp and stuck with the RME since it is all that and then some. I felt that I would miss the RME vs missing the 789. Maybe somewhere down the road I will experiment again with connecting the unit to another amp but I have no regrets just sticking with the RME for the time being...also considering the sale of the 789 did help fund my 2 channel speaker setup).


----------



## kumar402

Luckbad said:


> Even if you use none of the features, it's an outstanding DAC worth at least the asking price.
> 
> It's also one of _very _few devices that has excellent built-in USB (modern Schiit DACs, Soekris, and a couple other pro level devices being the only others I'd consider using USB for anymore).
> 
> ...


Thanks....
I also see you are fan of MHDT Orchid...how do these compare against those keeping features aside.


----------



## Anaz

mixman said:


> OK, how much do you have to spend to get a truly better amp than what's inside of the RME? I find that the THX 789 isn't really better, just different, and it has a balanced output. What are some better amps without having to spend $2K ?



  ...IMO it's really a matter of diminishing returns after hitting the price point fo the ADI-2 DAC.
_Better? _The only thing I can think of is an amp that has a more powerful power circuit and that can accommodate a higher phase shift (due to a headphone's varying impedance vs. frequency) but I have no idea what that measurement is for the ADI-2 DAC so I can't tell what a "_better"_ amp is  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.  IMO a lot of people mistake a _different_ sound for a better sound.


----------



## tekkster

MikeW said:


> I agree with the above and it's almost annoying good, because if a better device comes along, that you may prefer sonically,  your going to definitely miss something about the adi-2.



That is so true.  As better DACs emerge, I’ll never sell the ADI-2.  The number of features this DAC provides is really exceptional, and few manufacturers really engineer around a DAC chip as well as RME does with the 4490.  I have the H2.  Despite this, the ADI-2 is my daily driver.  

If I were richer, I’d get the TT2 and add the HMS, and it may sound really great (at those prices it would have to), but I bet I’d miss a ton of features from the ADI-2.

It also means if RME released a higher end device using fancier components, I might just gravitate that way.


----------



## Overclocked11 (Mar 3, 2019)

lukeslens said:


> My main system dac was a Teac UD-501 that I've been using since 2015 or so. I've absolutely loved that thing and I just moved it to my office, but no doubt about it, the ADI-2 is pretty considerable upgrade.



After today I can confirm what you say.

I love the UD-501.. its excellent in its own respects, but I had a chance to demo the ADI-2 today and definitely, I could tell right away that it was an upgrade. The width and detail of the presentation was apparent.. super clean, almost effortless. The fact that you can dial in EQ nevermind for each output? Man.. that is nice. Although I've found ways to accomplish this software side, its such a nice feature and the UX well thought out, that it makes it almost too obvious of an upgrade.

Tested with Atticus and R1 in the store.. found that I had to crank the R1 a bit high (-7.0) before it started to get too hot, but the quality was there just the same. Would be interested to see how it plays with the G109, but in any event, I'm now a believer. Thinking I will grab one and demo for a longer period.. have no doubts that it will all end with me pulling the trigger.


----------



## Rienm

Question for those who own the RME Adi dac 2 . It seems to be a perfect  AIO for me, that is because I have a hearing loss on the left side , about 30 dB above 4 kHz. Next to this my age is 67 so above 10kHz I don’t hear a lot..... So an AIO WITH an Equalizer in which I can correct my left ear, perfect!
Now I use an iFi nano Bl as headphone amplifier for my MrSpeakers Aeon; has anyone tried the RME with these headphones, enough power ?

Thanks, Rien


----------



## MikeW (Mar 3, 2019)

Luckbad said:


> Even if you use none of the features, it's an outstanding DAC worth at least the asking price.
> It's also one of _very _few devices that has excellent built-in USB (modern Schiit DACs, Soekris, and a couple other pro level devices being the only others I'd consider using USB for anymore).
> Prior to the RME, I'd traditionally use a Lynx AES16e or E22 to feed AES/RCA/BNC into a DAC because the USB never cut it.
> As for the implementation of the DSP, it's incredible and it is onboard so it doesn't require you to monkey with stuff on multiple machines or limit yourself to particular software to use it.



This is so important, the USB implementation of the RME is really world class. This is often overlooked when comparing cheaper options to RME. Not only is the USB input exceptional, so is the coax and optical. But USB is a shining star among an ocean of turds.
Can you share your thoughts on the SPL pairing, or I know you reviewed the combo, perhaps link it here for others.



mixman said:


> Well seeing as Monoprice will be out of these for a while, it will give me time to to save up for this or look into something else. Soundstage  is exactly what I am looking for as an improvement. Extra power would be nice too. Not really a big tube fan either, but I do know in the Shangri La those  tubes sounded wonderful.



Well, Liquid Platinum's not really a tube amp, it's a fully balanced hybrid so it shares none of the weakness and or inflexibility issues that full Tube amps have. Have you ever tried a hybrid before? It maintains a mostly solid state sound, but adds warmth, tonality, air, and a sense of space and 3D sound, combined with a lush warm mid range. This can be tweaked with tube rolling to a fairly large extent, and can be tweaked further with the EQ on the RME. And if pairing the liquid platinum with the RME, you get excellent volume attenuation, and you still have access to the excellent solid state amp and IEM amp built into the RME, if you want to mix it up sometime. The head-amp on the RME can be complimentary, for example if you decided to use an OTL tube amp, and you pick up a pair of IEM's one day, or planar's or something that just does not gel with an OTL, you have the RME to fall back on. Some amps and headphones pair extremely well together, sometimes so much so that an inferior amp can sound better with a given headphone... Valhalla 2, or Crack + HD650, for example. Im not trying to sell you anything though, just my observations as an owner of the two devices. But I have not owned either for long, so more impressions to come. 



Anaz said:


> ...IMO it's really a matter of diminishing returns after hitting the price point fo the ADI-2 DAC.
> _Better? _The only thing I can think of is an amp that has a more powerful power circuit and that can accommodate a higher phase shift (due to a headphone's varying impedance vs. frequency) but I have no idea what that measurement is for the ADI-2 DAC so I can't tell what a "_better"_ amp is  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.  IMO a lot of people mistake a _different_ sound for a better sound.



This is very true, and what i've been alluding to, it is quite difficult to be *technically* any better then either the 789 or the RME's headamp. However, this is where measurements and objective and subjective start to go at odds. Excellent sounding gear with Tubes offer's pleasing harmonic distortion, in all the right places, that does not measure well, but many... most? prefer this sound signature. I understand and accept that what I am hearing with tubes is in fact distortion, and someone like Amir will poo all over it. I don't care. No one uses tubes because they measure better.


----------



## Luckbad

@MikeW Thoughts haven't been fully organized, but you can read train-of-thought style stuff here: https://forum.headphone.com/t/spl-phonitor-x-dac-amp-official-thread/50/118?u=luckbad

The SPL Phonitor XE is a neutral, revealing amplifier. The RME ADI-2 DAC combo is a transparent , highly-resolving reference-worthy pair. The main improvement of the Phonitor over the RME headphone output is dynamics. I've always found the ADI-2 DAC's headphone output with something like the Sennheiser HD650 to be just a touch slow, dulled, and almost compressed. Hook it up to a high level amplifier like the Phonitor and you'll hear an immediate difference.

That being said, I'm not generally a huge fan of pure solid state amps. I actually prefer to use a Garage1217 Project Sunrise III (with LPSU) as a preamp between the RME ADI-2 DAC and SPL Phonitor XE. It gives a little extra shimmer and sparkle without increasing brightness or inducing fatigue.

If you're trying to fully understand the character of a pair of headphones, the RME ADI-2 DAC -> SPL Phonitor XE is one of the best methods to do so. There is no coloration and you can power just about anything well.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 3, 2019)

Yeah, Dynamics... that's a good word, probably the correct word to describe what im calling air. The Liquid Plat is a big upgrade in this regard over the RME. The best way I can describe this..

An understanding of the space between instruments that are burried far down in the mix. Particularly with classical, if you have some strings playing down at -40 DB and some horns playing at -25 DB you can fully understand that relationship and "feel" that distance. This is somewhat lost on the RME. Even moreso on the Jotunheim. Things that are buried deep in the mix don't call attention to themselves, but are presented in a natural way, very very clearly, and free of haze and distortion, while maintaining the sense of 3d/dyanmics/air. The LP is the only amp i've ever heard to pull this off at this level. But it's also the most expensive amp i've ever owned. And i've never heard an OTL or full tube amplifier.


----------



## cardeli22

Overclocked11 said:


> After today I can confirm what you say.
> 
> I love the UD-501.. its excellent in its own respects, but I had a chance to demo the ADI-2 today and definitely, I could tell right away that it was an upgrade. The width and detail of the presentation was apparent.. super clean, almost effortless. The fact that you can dial in EQ nevermind for each output? Man.. that is nice. Although I've found ways to accomplish this software side, its such a nice feature and the UX well thought out, that it makes it almost too obvious of an upgrade.
> 
> Tested with Atticus and R1 in the store.. found that I had to crank the R1 a bit high (-7.0) before it started to get too hot, but the quality was there just the same. Would be interested to see how it plays with the G109, but in any event, I'm now a believer. Thinking I will grab one and demo for a longer period.. have no doubts that it will all end with me pulling the trigger.


How did the Atticus sound with the RME? I was thinking of getting an Atticus to pair with my RME.


----------



## Anaz (Mar 3, 2019)

Luckbad said:


> @MikeW Thoughts haven't been fully organized, but you can read train-of-thought style stuff here: https://forum.headphone.com/t/spl-phonitor-x-dac-amp-official-thread/50/118?u=luckbad
> 
> The SPL Phonitor XE is a neutral, revealing amplifier. The RME ADI-2 DAC combo is a transparent , highly-resolving reference-worthy pair. The main improvement of the Phonitor over the RME headphone output is dynamics. I've always found the ADI-2 DAC's headphone output with something like the Sennheiser HD650 to be just a touch slow, dulled, and almost compressed. Hook it up to a high level amplifier like the Phonitor and you'll hear an immediate difference.
> 
> ...



The Phonitor XE looks nice but you're talking about a $2,000 amp   ...I think what you said about better dynamics is what I meant by _"can accommodate a higher phase shift_" - the HD 650 is a hard headphone to drive *well* because its impedance has a hump that rises above 500 Ohms at 100 Hz.



MikeW said:


> ...
> This is very true, and what i've been alluding to, it is quite difficult to be *technically* any better then either the 789 or the RME's headamp. However, this is where measurements and objective and subjective start to go at odds. Excellent sounding gear with Tubes offer's pleasing harmonic distortion, in all the right places, that does not measure well, but many... most? prefer this sound signature. I understand and accept that what I am hearing with tubes is in fact distortion, and someone like Amir will poo all over it. I don't care. No one uses tubes because they measure better.



Add to that Amir's bashing of R2R Dacs as well!


----------



## mixman

MikeW said:


> Yeah, Dynamics... that's a good word, probably the correct word to describe what im calling air. The Liquid Plat is a big upgrade in this regard over the RME. The best way I can describe this..
> 
> An understanding of the space between instruments that are burried far down in the mix. Particularly with classical, if you have some strings playing down at -40 DB and some horns playing at -25 DB you can fully understand that relationship and "feel" that distance. This is somewhat lost on the RME. Even moreso on the Jotunheim. Things that are buried deep in the mix don't call attention to themselves, but are presented in a natural way, very very clearly, and free of haze and distortion, while maintaining the sense of 3d/dyanmics/air. The LP is the only amp i've ever heard to pull this off at this level. But it's also the most expensive amp i've ever owned. And i've never heard an OTL or full tube amplifier.



Yeah that's it dynamics. That is what I am trying to better with another amp. That along with a little better soundstage. As I go up the HP ladder I am hearing more of what's in front of them. I think the RME's DAC is not the issue, perhaps having enough headroom on the amp, which should improve dynamics and soundstage. I am sure HEK SE will be relatively ruthless in revealing flaws on anything in the signal chain before it so I am trying to get the best signal I can going into them....without going to crazy as far as price.


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## MikeW (Mar 3, 2019)

The Liquid Platinum is not the most powerful amp around, but it's quite good at 6.6 watt's into 32 ohms. (THX 6 watts, RME 1.5 Watts) That's over balanced only though, it's single ended is not nearly as good, and best left ignored. I also have to give the disclaimer of expensive ass tubes. I dident realize, my own fault that 6922's are getting more rare by the day and they are expensive, expect to pay 150$ for a good set. That much power on either the 789 or LP is massive overkill for 95% of the headphones on the market. Unless your driving HE6 or Susvara, or some such monolithic beast of a statement headphone, you really don't need that kind of power, as you see when comparing the 1.5 watt RME to the THX789. Keep in mind, a few years ago before HE6 (this was a trigger, or maybe THE trigger to high power amps today) it was common for headphone amps, even well regarded ones to only put out .5 watts into 32 ohm, or possibly as much as 1 watt for really good stuff.

Looks like Luck bad's SPL Phonitor XE has similiar power, but it's a little strange the way the spec's read. 2.7 watts into 32 ohm, but 2 watts into 300 ohm... strange non linear drop off as ohm's increase. The LP puts .91 watts into 300 ohm, and the THX789 puts .8 watts.


----------



## mixman

Yeah I see amps like the Violectric V281 and just think hmmm, but so far as right now, its a little overkill for me unless I do get that Susvara. But would a revealing HP like a Utopia need something like that as an amp?


----------



## MikeW (Mar 3, 2019)

There's alot more to an amp and how revealing it is then power output. There's plenty of high end headphone options that don't require stupid amounts of power. Personally that's a deal breaker for me.. im not buying something that requires a special amp to drive it. Unless it's an electrostat. LYR3 puts 9 watts into 32 ohms, but it lacks the refinement of the higher end amps we are talking about.


----------



## mixman

Yeah, I am pretty much looking at SQ as opposed to power. Most of the HP's I am looking at even an HEK V2, are not that hard to drive, buy having great sound quality for them is important though.


----------



## Gww1

I'm think about getting this and just want to check one thing that I'm not 100% sure on from reading the thread - appologies if I have missed it somewhere.

Regarding Asio and Wasapi automatic bit rate selection on Windows 10, playing local music I can use Asio if needed and probably would anyway for DSD support so that's fine. But for Tidal I always assumed it used Wasapi in exclusive mode, so will automatic bit rate selection work?
Could someone who uses the Adi-2 Dac on W10 with Tidal please let me know if there are any issues?


----------



## MikeW

Automatic bit rate selection does not
Work in tidal. It does work in foobar and Qobuz. I blame tidal. You can force 44.1 lossless and it works fine but no hi res.


----------



## Gww1

MikeW said:


> Automatic bit rate selection does not
> Work in tidal. It does work in foobar and Qobuz. I blame tidal. You can force 44.1 lossless and it works fine but no hi res.


Thanks for the reply, I read it may be possible to get automatic switching in wasapi by not installing the official driver after a firmware update mid last year. Do you know if that is correct? And if so are there any drawbacks in not using the official driver (other than losing Asio)?


----------



## MikeW

I installed the drivers immediately as you’re required to do update the firmware of the device I don’t recall trying it out with the native driver I can test it out for you


----------



## Gww1

MikeW said:


> I installed the drivers immediately as you’re required to do update the firmware of the device I don’t recall trying it out with the native driver I can test it out for you


Thanks, I really appreciate it!


----------



## MikeW (Mar 6, 2019)

Ok did a little testing for you. I no longer have a tidal membership so I can't test that for you. I make no guarantee of success. You may want to ask around a bit more. Here's what I did tonight:

Uninstalled the RME drivers and Madiface USB, rebooted and let the windows native driver take over.

Then I opend Qobuz and changed the sound interface to Wasapi (Exclusive), I then started playing random tracks of differing bit rate. Once songs were playing I attempted to move the windows volume slider around to verify that we were in fact bypassing the mixer.

The result of this test was, the windows mixer was bypassed as expected, and the bit-rate changed quickly and without error. In fact, it worked a little better then the Madiface driver, as that sometimes would interrupt the begining of a track as the sampling rate switched, I saw none of this behavior with the native windows driver, just smooth and instant bit-rate changes.

I then tested foobar, and something unexpected happend. When selecting output mode Wasapi (Event) the audio was distorted and unlistenable. I did find that odd, so I selected Wasapi (Push) and the problems went away, everything worked as expected. I then switched back to Wasapi (event) and noticed the same unexpected behavior.

with these mixed results I cannot say if wasapi (exclusive) functions properly though the device for Tidal. I will be leaving the windows native driver installed however, as I do like the better functionality with Qobuz. I recently had Tidal, with the device, and chose to just use the "hi fi " setting, which automatically only sends lossless 44.1, i've since moved on to Qobuz.

Edit: one thing that was unexpected and a nice surprise with the ASIO driver was, you could do bit-perfect, windows mixer bypassed music, and also play windows sounds, and youtube video's etc. Wasapi Exclusive blocks all other sounds. I still likely won't be going back to the Asio driver, the stuttering caused by bit rate swap in Qobuz is cured and it was a little annoying.

I don't think there any any drawbacks to not using the official driver if your only using the device in a non-pro, consumption manner, as most in these forums are. I'll update if I notice any odd behavior.

Edit: update, it looks like there is still the occasional hiccup on Qobuz when switching bit-rate, but it's alot quicker and less annoying, and happens less frequently with the native drivers.


----------



## Phoniac

"WASAPI Event would be the correct way to use it. But you are right, that only works with 44.1 kHz, at 48 kHz it is distorted. This is clearly a bug in Foobar or the WASAPI component, as it also happens with a different third party DAC, and does not happen in Roon."

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=136274#p136274


----------



## MikeW

The thread Phoniac linked to also contains more information, specifically with Tidal not working correctly with the RME-ADI 2. So YMMV..


----------



## Gww1

Thanks both, that's really helpful!


----------



## geniekid

Rienm said:


> Question for those who own the RME Adi dac 2 . It seems to be a perfect  AIO for me, that is because I have a hearing loss on the left side , about 30 dB above 4 kHz. Next to this my age is 67 so above 10kHz I don’t hear a lot..... So an AIO WITH an Equalizer in which I can correct my left ear, perfect!
> Now I use an iFi nano Bl as headphone amplifier for my MrSpeakers Aeon; has anyone tried the RME with these headphones, enough power ?



The ADI-2 DAC/Pro can definitely drive MrSpeakers Aeons - I was doing ADI-2 Pro -> AFOs for a little while.

That said, I don't believe you can specify an EQ profile for just the left/right channel and not the other.


----------



## wakajazz

geniekid said:


> The ADI-2 DAC/Pro can definitely drive MrSpeakers Aeons - I was doing ADI-2 Pro -> AFOs for a little while.
> 
> That said, I don't believe you can specify an EQ profile for just the left/right channel and not the other.



The ADI-2 DAC has an option called _Dual EQ _which allows for independent EQ adjustment of the left and right channels.


----------



## Rienm

geniekid said:


> The ADI-2 DAC/Pro can definitely drive MrSpeakers Aeons - I was doing ADI-2 Pro -> AFOs for a little while.
> 
> That said, I don't believe you can specify an EQ profile for just the left/right channel and not the other.



Thanks for your reply ; in the meantime I bought the ADI-2 , I am very satisfied and, yes, you can set the EQ for each channel !


----------



## Gradius

I think I'll get one too.

Cannot imagine something this good for $1099.


----------



## technobear

I have just kicked the sound quaility of my ADI2-DAC up a notch by setting the filter to NOS and upsampling on the PC instead. I'm using Resampler-V plugin for foobar2000 (which also requires the VST wrapper). I'm upsampling 8x (44.1k --> 352.8k, 48k --> 384k), linear phase, SoX, 91% passband, 109%stop band - so a slightly slow filter rather than a brick wall. I am getting a smoother more natural sound with greater transparency but still with great musicality. I guess on-chip sample rate conversion still has room for improvement.

The same trick improves my iDAC2 and Shanling M0 also (though the latter is limited to 192k on USB DAC dutiy).


----------



## BrainFood (Mar 14, 2019)

technobear said:


> I'm upsampling 8x (44.1k --> 352.8k, 48k --> 384k), linear phase, SoX, 91% passband, 109%stop band



Thanks for posting that. Would you use the same settings for x4?


----------



## technobear

BrainFood said:


> Thanks for posting that. Would you use the same settings for x4?


Yes. That is what I tried first and it also sounded good.

The PC is a 3 GHz Core i5 so I may try 16x when I get a minute.

The laptop is only a quad core Pentium but is not having any difficulty with 8x oversampling while surfing the web. No glitches so far.


----------



## Mr B1

Hi all. New RME user here (Adam A5X monitors, AFC headphones, LCD2C on order, sold PM3 and HE4XX, considering adding the Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk2).

I've been using it for 2 weeks now. Very happy with this DAC and extremely impressed how easy it is to use once the navigation structure 'clicks'. Also, the ability to EQ a headphone with from what I can hear no loss to quality, the auto-switch of EQ profile when going to line-out..it's all extremely well thought out and it's smarts seem to never interfere with listening. It has all the hallmarks of having being programmed by people who use what they make.

On the auto switching in Tidal under Windows (Mac has no issues)... from what I understand the USB input seems to require the RME's internal clock.
With Madiface drivers from RME you can set the sample rate to whatever you like, but personally I find that's just annoying switching manually IMO. 

I now started using the optical input with my PC, and no issues. It's happily auto-switching between 44.1 and 96Khz for MQA tracks. You can still leave the USB connected if you like.


----------



## lithrai

How do you like AFC with ADI 2 DAC internal amp?


----------



## Mr B1

This combo RME/AFC is very much growing on me (and breaking in still)..  I have had the RME for just over 2 weeks and the AFC only for about 3..  but the combo is now getting more and more musical - especially the last couple of days. 
Lacking proper reference material.. but I think the detail, black background and separation is on a very high level for both and a match.

To be honest.. I'm very much still getting to terms with both and this level of equipment.. there's lot's to be discovered.. so don't take anything as an absolute.
Years ago, I had the Quad ESL57 speaker + Beard P35 tube amp + Philips CD880 with TDA1541A/S1 as reference, so good sound by itself is not entirely new to me.
I'll share impressions from this journey below related to other components as well to give some context hopefully.

So for the relative impression regarding the AFC/RME combo...I have/had available the Oppo PM3, HE4XX, LG V30+, Arcam IrDac 2 and Chord Mojo. 

None of the other components comes close, the closest in enjoyment is the irDAC2 + AFC which is very enjoyable but the RME's DAC is quite a bit more refined (and I like the irDAC2!)
Given the price differential to many that makes sense but I find RME+AFC a good return on money spend.


I felt that the irDAC 2's headphone amp is slightly more authoritative, dynamic, impactful - despite the weaker DAC.
Arcam apparently took the headamp out of the A49 amp, which has a 2W into 16ohm and <1ohm output imp
.... so it may well have the qualities that suit the AFC better than the RME's headphone amp. We'll see - this is what I want to experiment with.


The AFC responded so well to better amping (going V30+ > Mojo > IrDac2 and RME), I sense that a better amp could well get quite a bit more out of the AFC (and as a result, the RME). 
It's very likely I'll do this (Gilmore Lite Mk2 is very recommended for AFC).. if only to know what's what! I also have the LCD2classic coming so that will be interesting too. 


Chord Mojo + AFC.. unimpressed (unlike many). Detail + high end sounding ... but it seems to describe music rather than sound real, it also has a weak bass

LG V30+ +AFC .. no bass, collapsed fuzzy soundstage, lacking detail, can't listen to it anymore
It was impressive how well the HE4XX scaled and improved with the RME. No match for the AFC though - even comparing open with closed here.
As for settings / pads for this combo ...I moved to listening without filters in the AFC and put the RME in NOS filter mode. I found the overtones of plucked/struck strings, piano, voices sound most close to reality and have more emotional, rhythmic cohesion.
I've also put some EQ (+3.5db/40/0.5 -1db/130/1.8, -2db/1.1/1.6, +1db/4k/1.0, -1.5db/9k/2.4) for listening with the AFC.


----------



## Gradius

I'm thinking to buy this one and mod the OPAMPs with Burson v5i.

I need to sell my old gear 1st.


----------



## butch111

Gradius said:


> I'm thinking to buy this one and mod the OPAMPs with Burson v5i.
> 
> I need to sell my old gear 1st.



Burson V5i can be placed in the RME??


----------



## MikeW (Mar 16, 2019)

Considering the rme uses 3 surface mount op-amps per channel, extremely close together, I doubt it. Probably would sound worse if one could Frankenstein it together. Not to mention voiding the warranty on 1100$ gear and wrecking resale value.

Also of note the OPA1602A that is used by rme is missing from the compatibility list on bursons page for v5


----------



## Gradius (Mar 17, 2019)

butch111 said:


> Burson V5i can be placed in the RME??



Yes, but you need DIP to SOIC adapters.

Like this:


----------



## Gradius (Mar 17, 2019)

MikeW said:


> Also of note the OPA1602A that is used by rme is missing from the compatibility list on bursons page for v5



They are compatible.



MikeW said:


> wrecking resale value.



Not true (on the contrary) if well done, and improvise (even more) the sound quality.

The OPAnnnn (ANY opa, LME, etc) are far from the best.


----------



## butch111

Gradius said:


> Yes, but you need DIP to SOIC adapters.
> 
> Like this:



Please post the results! - I had pimped an old Audio GD Fun with Burson V5 and  I was impressed with the results (different OPamps testet)


----------



## Gradius

butch111 said:


> Please post the results! - I had pimped an old Audio GD Fun with Burson V5 and  I was impressed with the results (different OPamps testet)



I'm pretty sure it would be better, but now I'm looking into the new EVGA NU audio card as it uses the newer (and updated) AK4493EQ (better than AK4490EQ used on RME).

It costs just $250, and I'm thinking to get that one and use Burson V6 vivid with (it just need 2 OPAMPs too).




AK4490EQ is from 2014 (pretty much unused now), while AK4493EQ is from 2018.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 18, 2019)

because the dac chip is the only thing that matters right, that's why the Modi 3 sounds just like the RME ADI-2, they use the same Dac chip so it all makes sense now.


----------



## butch111

MikeW said:


> because the dac chip is the only thing that matters right, that's why the Modi 3 sounds just like the RME ADI-2, they use the same Dac chip so it all makes sense now.



jo...the Jotunheim with an early DAC module was the worst AMP/DAC I ever had.....the RME with the same DAC is the best by far!! Booth with the same DAC-chip.


----------



## tekkster

butch111 said:


> jo...the Jotunheim with an early DAC module was the worst AMP/DAC I ever had.....the RME with the same DAC is the best by far!! Booth with the same DAC-chip.



So funny you should mention this!  I have the old Jot with the AK4490, and the ADI-2.  Yep yep yep.  Agree with you that the ADI-2 is the very best possible implementation of the AK4490 among the devices I researched online and tested at nearby stores (which is not comprehensive, but reasonably significant).  I'm not a huge fan of the ak4490 dac module in the old Jot, but it's not the worst I've ever had.  It's still a significant improvement to laptop, tablet, and phone DACs, in my humble opinion.


----------



## oxide7

I heard that this is more dac than amp. i want something like this for my desk in the office so i can look tasteful, but not like a snob  Can it give a good experienece out of some audeze lcd w/o another amp though?


----------



## devante1977

I have the LCD-x and combined with the ADI-2 DAC this is my complete desktop setup. Former Jotunheim and THX 789 AAA owner.


----------



## cobrabucket

devante1977 said:


> I have the LCD-x and combined with the ADI-2 DAC this is my complete desktop setup. Former Jotunheim and THX 789 AAA owner.


I currently have a thx 789. It is pretty good IMO, but not end all, be all. How's the amp on the adi-2 compare?


----------



## oxide7

devante1977 said:


> I have the LCD-x and combined with the ADI-2 DAC this is my complete desktop setup. Former Jotunheim and THX 789 AAA owner.


Thanks. Give me a lot of hope. you're saying you can get the full potential out of the LCD (i would have 2F) with just this unit? Do you know you're missing something :


----------



## devante1977

cobrabucket said:


> I currently have a thx 789. It is pretty good IMO, but not end all, be all. How's the amp on the adi-2 compare?



Short end of it - Improvement in dynamics was there since there was added juice to the sound chain but going "balanced", but I experienced no change in soundstage. An awesome match with the LCD-X. To say there is transparency/clarity/neutrality is a given and if that is your aim, you will hit the mark.

But,

My ears weren't convinced it was such a great improvement that I needed to keep it...or maybe the ADI-2 serves all my headphone needs (at the moment). 

Having said that, the THX is awesome and I recommend it highly. I just wanted a 2 channel setup more than I wanted to keep the THX so that went to go help fund it. The RME stays and it can plays a part in my 2 channel setup as well.


----------



## devante1977

oxide7 said:


> Thanks. Give me a lot of hope. you're saying you can get the full potential out of the LCD (i would have 2F) with just this unit? Do you know you're missing something :



I don't miss the THX at all. I can always switch to high power mode in the ADI-2 (I mean, how loud do I really need to listen to music in my headphones...I still need my hearing). I can EQ the sound exactly the way I want. There is a learning curve to the interface but honestly if I can do it and you can read the manual it really is not that hard other than understanding EQing.

If I wanted further improvement in my headphone setup I would have to go up and that's not in the cards right now. And at this time, I have no desire to leave that spot.


----------



## butch111

tekkster said:


> So funny you should mention this!  I have the old Jot with the AK4490, and the ADI-2.  Yep yep yep.  Agree with you that the ADI-2 is the very best possible implementation of the AK4490 among the devices I researched online and tested at nearby stores (which is not comprehensive, but reasonably significant).  I'm not a huge fan of the ak4490 dac module in the old Jot, but it's not the worst I've ever had.  It's still a significant improvement to laptop, tablet, and phone DACs, in my humble opinion.



ok ok  - you have found much worster DACs on earth. For me the Jot was one of my biggest Hifi-dissapointments....what a hype

but - the main reason for this compare: the gigantic difference between these two - with the same dac-chip


----------



## technobear

oxide7 said:


> Thanks. Give me a lot of hope. you're saying you can get the full potential out of the LCD (i would have 2F) with just this unit? Do you know you're missing something :


You won't be missing anything. ADI2-DAC sounds superb with LCD-X. For ultimate quality, do the upsampling on the PC, not in the DAC.


----------



## mixman

I found the THX was not an improvement soundwise over the RME. As a matter of fact, I believe I actually prefer the RME's sound. Right now I am keeping it case i need the power. Finding it hard to find a much better amp than the RME at less than $1,500.


----------



## BoogieWoogie (Mar 19, 2019)

mixman said:


> I found the THX was not an improvement soundwise over the RME. As a matter of fact, I believe I actually prefer the RME's sound. Right now I am keeping it case i need the power. Finding it hard to find a much better amp than the RME at less than $1,500.


I compared the RME amp with the Gilmore Lite mk2 using an Focal Elex and the 500$ Gilmore was obviously better.


----------



## mixman

BoogieWoogie said:


> I compared the RME amp with the Gilmore Lite mk2 using an Focal Elex and the 500$ Gilmore was obviously better.



I should have mentioned balanced. Also, in what ways is it better than the RME amp? If you don't mind could you post up here, because many in the linked thread believe it cannot be done for a reasonable amount.


----------



## Mr B1

Just on this...I got my Gilmore Lite Mk2 today and I had the chance to do some A/B listening.. with so-so interconnects and the AFC only. So anything here is RME headphone amp vs Gilmore headphone amp added - in context of the AFC.

The initial impressions:
- blacker background with better separation; transients especially, but every instrument and voice is more separate and more so with complex music
- following on from this, instruments have some body and space around them with the Gilmore..with the RME it sounds more thinny, instruments seems to be in flat layers
- gilmore has definition in brush sounds, zils on a tambourine, cymbals ..
- the sound stage gets slightly bigger, voices a tad more distance away, echos are more distinct - a sense of space generally.
- bass control - it's more articulated and clear positioning of instruments
- makes the AFC inviting to listen to (and less fatiguing it seems)

The RME headphone amp is still good...as the difference is technically not massive, but somehow adding the Gilmore does add up to a lot more enjoyable listening. I don't feel myself playing with EQ anymore.. it's off in fact.

I also listened to the AFC+Gilmore with Chord Mojo and LG V30+.. and both improved substantially - the V30 a lot! The V30 is a very enjoyable DAC once the phone doesn't have to drive the AFC. LG V30+ > Gilmore > AFC makes a great work setup (IMHO)!

Anyway, that's the early impression. Personally the nicest thing is that my V30 suddenly and totally went frog > princess . .. on the flip side is the somewhat costly reality that headphone amps matter.
To be revisited when the LCD2 Classic comes in...


----------



## oxide7 (Mar 20, 2019)

It doesn't surprise me that using the ADI-2 as a premium DAC + a good heaphone amp will probably sound better than just the DAC alone. But I'm trying to determine if I can get "good enough" with just the ADI-2 on my desk, and from what I am reading above that should be the case. It seems to get most of the way there. Which is good because a) already spending 1k on the ADI-2, b) alot on the headphones, c) dont want tons of equip at my desk in the office 

The other combo I am considering is the woo-audio fireflies as it is also a dac-amp combo for the same price. I am a sucker for the spectrum analyzer and the eq of the ADI-2, but the Woo comes with a bonafide amp... Can anyone comment on the pros/cons of these units (hopefully for some LCD 2fs)


----------



## BoogieWoogie

It's this size, I don't have


mixman said:


> I should have mentioned balanced. Also, in what ways is it better than the RME amp? If you don't mind could you post up here, because many in the linked thread believe it cannot be done for a reasonable amount.


Shouldn't make difference balanced. 

Overall it's what MR B1 described. The sound gets thinner and more edgy with the adi amp


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@oxide7 Yes, I cannot imagine that you will be unhappy with the RME solo. I am running it with the MX4 and I couldn't be happier. I considered adding a separate amp, but instead of a few % improvement (possibly maybe), I'd rather keep one unit, operate its volume control directly, well basically enjoy a very quality unit on its own.


----------



## tekkster

I have auditioned a fair amount of WA gear.  Of all of them, I was least impressed with the firefly.  Maybe my brain and ears were being unfairly skewed against the firefly because each time I tested them also included testing other WA gear that cost multiple times more.  Even assuming that, I considered them "good" but just didn't seem like the value for dollar was there.

Personally, though my ears are weak and my tastes a little different than many on head-fi, my opinion is that the RME + firefly would not be better than just the RME.

The RME amp portion really is very good.

I get a little nervous recommending most audio gear, but the RME is the one piece of gear I recommend over and over again.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

oxide7 said:


> It doesn't surprise me that using the ADI-2 as a premium DAC + a good heaphone amp will probably sound better than just the DAC alone. But I'm trying to determine if I can get "good enough" with just the ADI-2 on my desk, and from what I am reading above that should be the case. It seems to get most of the way there. Which is good because a) already spending 1k on the ADI-2, b) alot on the headphones, c) dont want tons of equip at my desk in the office
> 
> The other combo I am considering is the woo-audio fireflies as it is also a dac-amp combo for the same price. I am a sucker for the spectrum analyzer and the eq of the ADI-2, but the Woo comes with a bonafide amp... Can anyone comment on the pros/cons of these units (hopefully for some LCD 2fs)


the ADI-2 DAC is an amazing bit of kit, for me personally i've found my end game source. for 99% of all headphones this amp/dac will be enough... more than enough! the only 2 downsides i can think of are a) if your headphones surpass 600ohms? maybe you may need a dedicated amp im not sure... b) no balance.

the highest ohm cans i have atm are DT1990 Pros and they sound magnificent on the ADI-2 DAC. cleaner than a surgeons scalpel.


----------



## mixman

BoogieWoogie said:


> It's this size, I don't have
> 
> Shouldn't make difference balanced.
> 
> Overall it's what MR B1 described. The sound gets thinner and more edgy with the adi amp



If that's the case a GS-X Mini should kill. Now that has enough power to run a Susvara. The Mini is definitely not cheap but I do know that is a killer little amp. Maybe I will try the Gilmore.


----------



## Gradius

MikeW said:


> because the dac chip is the only thing that matters right, that's why the Modi 3 sounds just like the RME ADI-2, they use the same Dac chip so it all makes sense now.



Well, implementation is more important, then the DAC.


----------



## Gradius

Tsukuyomi said:


> the ADI-2 DAC is an amazing bit of kit, for me personally i've found my end game source. for 99% of all headphones this amp/dac will be enough...



To me it would be probably this DAC and HD800S headphones.


----------



## Quinto

Gradius said:


> To me it would be probably this DAC and HD800S headphones.



For me it is this DAC and HD800S headphones.


----------



## MikeW (Mar 22, 2019)

I find it amusing that 2 or 3 people here have tested the ADI-2 Amp vs the THX789 and found them rather equal. Yet those who have tried the Gilmore Lite MK2 have expressed it to be  the better amp, which is possible, KG know's his crap. But dumb people are paying like 600-800$ for the 789 on Ebay lol.. Gilmore Lite MK2 available all day for 500, and less used.

That said, I found the ADI-2 to be different to but not inferior to the Jotunheim. Monoprice Liquid Platinum edges it out on Dynamic's for sure, probably soundstage too. It's a pretty expensive piece of kit though, and not better in every regard.


----------



## BoogieWoogie

MikeW said:


> I find it amusing that 2 or 3 people here have tested the ADI-2 Amp vs the THX789 and found them rather equal. Yet those who have tried the Gilmore Lite MK2 have expressed it to be  the better amp, which is possible, KG know's his ****. But dumb people are paying like 600-800$ for the 789 on Ebay lol.. Gilmore Lite MK2 available all day for 500, and less used.
> 
> That said, I found the ADI-2 to be different to but not inferior to the Jotunheim. Monoprice Liquid Platinum edges it out on Dynamic's for sure, probably soundstage too. It's a pretty expensive piece of kit though, and not better in every regard.


Its small (out of case heavy transformer) and not much marketing so people think it shouldn't perform. Its one of the hidden gems of the hobby.


----------



## Gradius (Mar 23, 2019)

You can find it (new) on official site ($499):
https://www.headamp.com/order/headamp-gilmore-lite-mk2-class-a-headphone-amplifier/

Btw, Massdrop THX AAA 789 it's $350.


----------



## Wesbound

Quinto said:


> For me it is this DAC and HD800S headphones.



I got this set up plus Lake People g100


----------



## Quinto

Wesbound said:


> I got this set up plus Lake People g100



So is there a noticable difference between the two amps? I used to own the V200, but sold it

I was planning to buy a balanced amp and use the ADI2 as dac/pre only, but I like this amp a lot with HD800S (and Alara)


----------



## Anaz

Quinto said:


> So is there a noticable difference between the two amps? I used to own the V200, but sold it
> 
> I was planning to buy a balanced amp and use the ADI2 as dac/pre only, but I like this amp a lot with HD800S (and Alara)



My Clear (which has an impedance spike at 50Hz) has better low end and is _slightly_ warmer from a V200 and V281 compared to the amp section of the ADI-2 DAC so in my opinion the V200 and V281 can better handle voltage and current swings.  The 800S has an impedance peak at 100Hz, climbing up from 1kHz, so I think it would also benefit from a better amp.


----------



## Overclocked11

I bit the bullet. My local music and AV retailer has the ADI-2 Dac available on special order, so went and plonked a down payment and placed my order.

Should arrive in store next week, can't wait!
If anyone is interested in the Teac UD-501, I may be putting mine up for sale before long


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Gradius said:


> I'm pretty sure it would be better, but now I'm looking into the new EVGA NU audio card as it uses the newer (and updated) AK4493EQ (better than AK4490EQ used on RME).
> 
> It costs just $250, and I'm thinking to get that one and use Burson V6 vivid with (it just need 2 OPAMPs too).
> 
> ...



Sorry to reply to an older message, but I found the official RME response to this: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28081


----------



## CaptainFantastic

BoogieWoogie said:


> Its small (out of case heavy transformer) and not much marketing so people think it shouldn't perform. Its one of the hidden gems of the hobby.



May I ask how come you are selling yours?


----------



## Gradius

CaptainFantastic said:


> Sorry to reply to an older message, but I found the official RME response to this: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28081



Good find.  Yes implementation first, then the rest.


----------



## oxide7

I bit the bullet and got this 2 days ago... this is absolutely blowing my mind. I am upgrading from a schiit modi stack, so its quite the jump, but I didn't know it could sound this much better. I am afraid I dont have the diction or experience to express it... its like a curse! 

First the easy stuff -- I am using this at my desk in the office and it absolutely looks the part. It looks purposeful and quite button up; serious but not pretentious. I love that I can have a top-end DAC and amp in one unit ... its my office after all, and I dont work in a studio. For most it doesn't attract attention, but when really admire it, it is very clean. The buttons, tactile quality, everything is first-rate.

Second -- there are so many features. I dont even know what half of the stuff does. And to me that is exciting. I love that I can tune it and play with it and learn how best to use it over time. The manual seems to be like 300 pages and I cant wait to read through it. But after just a few pages, I can see they are taking a lot of pride in what they've built. It's not dry corporate stuff you would except from say, an American company, but it like its written by a product manager or some who is technically astute and proud of what they've built -- it will be a fun read. And I feel it should have some depth considering it's price, so I am happy it will be a gift that can keep on giving in that aspect, and I learn though it and grow with it, so-to-speak. Meaning: it's got character

The screen is just killer. I dont understand why all units dont have this. Am I the only one into a spectrum analyzer? Also I love the EQ and now I dont need to use my software one which always gave me reservations. 

Finally the sound -- this is where I feel very challenges to describe this. It feels just more clear and more explicit. All the sounds. There were some songs where I felt I was getting clipping of the bass before and the highs were shrill. I read somewhere that's sort of a symptom of semiconductors and to go tube, so I was considering that for a long time. But this doesn't have any of those problems. These make my ue11's come alive in a very refined way that I just haven't heard before. I had to keep turning up my schiit to hear details but somehow this is detailed at all volumes. And doesnt let up when I turn it up. The bass is so clean and refined - with the eq i turned it up just just a tad and omg... and I am talking IEMs. I tried some hiphop just to see (like drake's 9 for instance) and I found myself touching the table expecting vibrations.... just crazy and tight and explicit and clear. I havent even tried the planars yet (still shipping)

So all in all I am very happy. I was apprehensive. I am more of an enthusiast than a ... snob. I dont mean that in an offensive way, but I just haven't yet invested the time in learning and understanding the nuance and lingo, but I do know when I'm listening to crap. So i was wondering would this be better than my schiit and would it be worth it... but just with the IEMs a new world opened up. Can't wait to try with the LCD's 

(FYI I'm using apple music and sending a 768kb signal to it via USB)


----------



## Overclocked11

^ thanks for sharing! I love reading people's experiences and can't wait to share my own when mine arrives.


----------



## Spareribs

Awesome report! Nice to have a high end DAC. I plan on getting 2 of them. One for mixing music tracks in my home studio and one for casual listening in my audiophile stereo system


----------



## butch111

Spareribs said:


> Awesome report! Nice to have a high end DAC. I plan on getting 2 of them. One for mixing music tracks in my home studio and one for casual listening in my audiophile stereo system



He forgot something important.....all your audio files have to be re-heard


----------



## oxide7

Do you guys think this part is a problem: [Apple Music streamed at 768kb] ... i mean would tidal open up another world? I like the convenience of Apple Music -- has everything plus videos, plus I can easily share with my family. I heard the actual files are 256k AAC, which is as good or better than 320kb mp3s.... This is endless ... its like when you drive an M3 you start thinking about porshces. sorry if this should go on another board.


----------



## jerick70

oxide7 said:


> Do you guys think this part is a problem: [Apple Music streamed at 768kb] ... i mean would tidal open up another world? I like the convenience of Apple Music -- has everything plus videos, plus I can easily share with my family. I heard the actual files are 256k AAC, which is as good or better than 320kb mp3s.... This is endless ... its like when you drive an M3 you start thinking about porshces. sorry if this should go on another board.


My wife thought going to Tidal was a huge leap forward in sound and she's not an audiophile.  She was listening on a single Sonos 1 too.  If that's any indication.  She rolled her eyes at me when I first signed up for Tidal and wouldn't listen to it.  Then one day out of the blue (about a 1.5 years later) she decided to listen to a song on tidal and made this comment.


----------



## Overclocked11

butch111 said:


> He forgot something important.....all your audio files have to be re-heard



So upon setup, clear my schedule? Check check and double check.


----------



## Mr B1 (Mar 27, 2019)

oxide7 said:


> Do you guys think this part is a problem: [Apple Music streamed at 768kb] ... i mean would tidal open up another world?


There's a free trial for Tidal, so you can answer this by listening.. and check if their family option would be worth it to you.

Personally, I find all sparkle, realness, detail, emotion drops off with anything compressed at 256/320...and your RME and LCD-X can do a lot with lossless and MQA tracks.


----------



## PointyFox

"Well, I don't know 'bout dat".


----------



## tekkster

oxide7 said:


> I bit the bullet and got this 2 days ago... this is absolutely blowing my mind. I am upgrading from a schiit modi stack, so its quite the jump, but I didn't know it could sound this much better. I am afraid I dont have the diction or experience to express it... its like a curse!
> 
> First the easy stuff -- I am using this at my desk in the office and it absolutely looks the part. It looks purposeful and quite button up; serious but not pretentious. I love that I can have a top-end DAC and amp in one unit ... its my office after all, and I dont work in a studio. For most it doesn't attract attention, but when really admire it, it is very clean. The buttons, tactile quality, everything is first-rate.
> 
> ...




Excellent writeup.  Rock on.  The clean sound and detail retrieval continues to surprise me when switching from one of my other DACs or DAPs to the RME ADI-2.  I like your use of the word "refined".  Totally get what you're saying there.  

I don't consider myself an audiophile either.  More just an enthusiast.


----------



## Spareribs

I’m an enthusiastic audiophile


----------



## Giacomino

Ciao, sto amplificando Focal Utopia e HD800S con Rme ADI2, un'emozione della musica !!


----------



## technobear

Giacomino said:


> Ciao, sto amplificando Focal Utopia e HD800S con Rme ADI2, un'emozione della musica !!


Firstly, this is an English language forum. Please post in English.

Second, Microsoft Translator gives the strangest translation of 'amplificando':



> Hi, I'm *ampliecting *Focal Utopia and HD800S with Rme ADI2, an emotion of music


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@technobear To be fair, he just communicated an emotion, and doing so in his (beautiful) native language was probably better for most of us. What I mean is that it transmitted the sentiment on a more authentic level. Also, he communicated this using words which I expect almost any English speaker understands.

"amplificando" is the gerund, perhaps that is why your translator has an issue with it. Google Translate does a much better job, just checked.


----------



## tekkster

I just had a flashback to the Orkut social network as the groups I was in were slowly taken over by a foreign language.

At least this foreign language writer is on topic.  I would agree with Giacomo, the ADI-2 is a good pairing with the Utopia and HD800S to my ears as well.  Maybe not the absolute best pairing for the Utopia, but very good.


----------



## montanari

Giacomino said:


> Ciao, sto amplificando Focal Utopia e HD800S con Rme ADI2, un'emozione della musica !!


Hi. I m driving (amping) utopia and 800s with rme adi2.
It s just a music emotion! 

Here we are all italian! 
Siamo tutti italiani!


----------



## i20bot

Does this thing let you choose between the outputs?  If you have something plugged into the XLR and RCA, can you choose which to output to or does it output to both at the same time?


----------



## lithrai

You can choose output even with remote.


----------



## Phoniac

Not true. RCA and XLR always run at the same time.


----------



## BrainFood (Mar 30, 2019)

..edit, never mind


----------



## mixman

Phoniac said:


> Not true. RCA and XLR always run at the same time.



Yep found that out the hard way. I have my monitor speakers on the RCA's and my THX 789 on the XLR's They will both be on unless I turn off one or the other.


----------



## oxide7

jerick70 said:


> My wife thought going to Tidal was a huge leap forward in sound and she's not an audiophile.  She was listening on a single Sonos 1 too.  If that's any indication.  She rolled her eyes at me when I first signed up for Tidal and wouldn't listen to it.  Then one day out of the blue (about a 1.5 years later) she decided to listen to a song on tidal and made this comment.



Just a quick update: I got a tidal trial and have been listening to tracks, including "masters". The difference between those tracks and Apple Music is barely perceivable, by me at least. And by barely, in those rare times it may just be placebo. It honestly sounds almost exactly the same. Few caveats to anyone paying attention to this: a lot of the stuff I listen to is studio stuff: hiphop, electronic, etc. MAYBE if I only listened to orchestra or something it would be more apparent. But in some of those trials I couldn't tell... again I'm just an "enthusiast" but that's what I'm hearing. These were also done on my IEMs, maybe the real headphones may sound diff, to which I'll report back.

The one thing I do like about Tidal is the "radio" next track suggestions, and recommended music. With Apple it just plays what I ask and that's it. So i always have to interact w/ it, and its annoying. I found Tidal to be superb at just keeping the music going in line with my first request, and also Spotify does that well too, but Apple is the worst. But since my whole family has macs and iphones the integration and ease is great considering my liberal-arts wife, and young kids.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

oxide7 said:


> Just a quick update: I got a tidal trial and have been listening to tracks, including "masters". The difference between those tracks and Apple Music is barely perceivable, by me at least. And by barely, in those rare times it may just be placebo. It honestly sounds almost exactly the same. Few caveats to anyone paying attention to this: a lot of the stuff I listen to is studio stuff: hiphop, electronic, etc. MAYBE if I only listened to orchestra or something it would be more apparent. But in some of those trials I couldn't tell... again I'm just an "enthusiast" but that's what I'm hearing. These were also done on my IEMs, maybe the real headphones may sound diff, to which I'll report back.
> 
> The one thing I do like about Tidal is the "radio" next track suggestions, and recommended music. With Apple it just plays what I ask and that's it. So i always have to interact w/ it, and its annoying. I found Tidal to be superb at just keeping the music going in line with my first request, and also Spotify does that well too, but Apple is the worst. But since my whole family has macs and iphones the integration and ease is great considering my liberal-arts wife, and young kids.


I've noticed a difference between having FLAC files ranging from 16bit  24bit and files that are AAC or WAV or ALAC.

I think Tidal premium offers lower quality than Tidal Hifi. and i think Tidal Hifi only offers up to a maximum of FLAC 16bit /44.1 which is CD quality.

you wont hear anything higher than 16bit / 44.1 from Tidal if that what you're hoping for.


----------



## jerick70

Tsukuyomi said:


> I've noticed a difference between having FLAC files ranging from 16bit  24bit and files that are AAC or WAV or ALAC.
> 
> I think Tidal premium offers lower quality than Tidal Hifi. and i think Tidal Hifi only offers up to a maximum of FLAC 16bit /44.1 which is CD quality.
> 
> you wont hear anything higher than 16bit / 44.1 from Tidal if that what you're hoping for.


Most Tidal masters are 96 kHz / 24 bit.

https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000397069-TIDAL-MASTERS


----------



## Tsukuyomi

jerick70 said:


> Most Tidal masters are 96 kHz / 24 bit.
> 
> https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000397069-TIDAL-MASTERS


How does the "MQA Masters" file look on a waveguide bar? is it the full bar or does it have headroom?


----------



## Anaz

oxide7 said:


> Just a quick update: I got a tidal trial and have been listening to tracks, including "masters". The difference between those tracks and Apple Music is barely perceivable, by me at least. And by barely, in those rare times it may just be placebo. It honestly sounds almost exactly the same. Few caveats to anyone paying attention to this: a lot of the stuff I listen to is studio stuff: hiphop, electronic, etc. MAYBE if I only listened to orchestra or something it would be more apparent. But in some of those trials I couldn't tell... again I'm just an "enthusiast" but that's what I'm hearing. These were also done on my IEMs, maybe the real headphones may sound diff, to which I'll report back.
> 
> The one thing I do like about Tidal is the "radio" next track suggestions, and recommended music. With Apple it just plays what I ask and that's it. So i always have to interact w/ it, and its annoying. I found Tidal to be superb at just keeping the music going in line with my first request, and also Spotify does that well too, but Apple is the worst. But since my whole family has macs and iphones the integration and ease is great considering my liberal-arts wife, and young kids.


On Apple Music, I believe “Create Station” from a song does what you’re looking for.


----------



## jerick70

oxide7 said:


> Just a quick update: I got a tidal trial and have been listening to tracks, including "masters". The difference between those tracks and Apple Music is barely perceivable, by me at least. And by barely, in those rare times it may just be placebo. It honestly sounds almost exactly the same. Few caveats to anyone paying attention to this: a lot of the stuff I listen to is studio stuff: hiphop, electronic, etc. MAYBE if I only listened to orchestra or something it would be more apparent. But in some of those trials I couldn't tell... again I'm just an "enthusiast" but that's what I'm hearing. These were also done on my IEMs, maybe the real headphones may sound diff, to which I'll report back.
> 
> The one thing I do like about Tidal is the "radio" next track suggestions, and recommended music. With Apple it just plays what I ask and that's it. So i always have to interact w/ it, and its annoying. I found Tidal to be superb at just keeping the music going in line with my first request, and also Spotify does that well too, but Apple is the worst. But since my whole family has macs and iphones the integration and ease is great considering my liberal-arts wife, and young kids.


I'm going to agree with @Tsukuyomi.  Except that Tidal offers master MQA recordings that are 96 Khz / 24 bit.  It sounds like you are using the HiFi trial so you should get the full monty.

One thing that I have noticed with Tidal is some recordings are not the best.  I would compare quite a few tracks and see what you get.  Also you need to compare the same albums from each service because there is a large variation is recording quality from album to album.  I think the LCD-Xs that you have may give you a better feel for the differences of Tidal to Apple music.  There is a difference when I've compared.  Especially with Tidal Masters recordings.


----------



## jerick70

Tsukuyomi said:


> How does the "MQA Masters" file look on a waveguide bar? is it the full bar or does it have headroom?


I've haven't done any measurements myself.  This guy has some interesting takes on MQA...

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/01/measurements-mqa-master-quality.html
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/07/measurements-mqa-filters-on-mytek.html
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/02/musingsmeasurements-on-blurring-and-why.html


----------



## Tsukuyomi

jerick70 said:


> I'm going to agree with @Tsukuyomi.  Except that Tidal offers master MQA recordings that are 96 Khz / 24 bit.  It sounds like you are using the HiFi trial so you should get the full monty.
> 
> One thing that I have noticed with Tidal is some recordings are not the best.  I would compare quite a few tracks and see what you get.  Also you need to compare the same albums from each service because there is a large variation is recording quality from album to album.  I think the LCD-Xs that you have may give you a better feel for the differences of Tidal to Apple music.  There is a difference when I've compared.  Especially with Tidal Masters recordings.


I've found from my personal experience that apple really supports the "loudness wars". almost every recording ive heard of itunes store sounds a bit shouty. but when i re-listen to the same song from a CD rip that ive done myself and pushed to 16/44.1 it sounds a lot less shouty and more clean. I think apple prides themselfs on making music fast downloading, easily stream-able and decent sounding (they would say excellent for Marketing purposes) for the mass of the population that doesnt engage in this hobby or who thinks apple airpods are good enough quality for their music means.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

jerick70 said:


> I've haven't done any measurements myself.  This guy has some interesting takes on MQA...
> 
> http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/01/measurements-mqa-master-quality.html
> http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/07/measurements-mqa-filters-on-mytek.html
> http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/02/musingsmeasurements-on-blurring-and-why.html


From the quick read i had it seems they're just re-labeling 16bit audio as 24bit MQA. . . :/ thats underhanded!


----------



## jerick70

Tsukuyomi said:


> From the quick read i had it seems they're just re-labeling 16bit audio as 24bit MQA. . . :/ thats underhanded!


If you look further down he comes to the conclusion that he can't measure properly because of the proprietary nature of how MQA is encoded / decoded.  But he did do a A/B/X test with his wife, she's a piano player, and she said the MQA file sounded artificial compared to the original DAT file.  But the resolution and technicalities were there.  The artificial sound could be due to the filters they used to encode the file into MQA though so they could make the song more appealing to more people.  I mean MQA is not just for audiophiles it is gear towards the apple music folks too.


----------



## eargasam

Question could I run the rme off the microsoft surface rt. It's a little old but just wondering if you could run it.


----------



## jerick70

eargasam said:


> Question could I run the rme off the microsoft surface rt. It's a little old but just wondering if you could run it.


Yes you should be able to.


----------



## eargasam

Even if it is not windows 10?


----------



## Overclocked11

all that should matter is whether or not the driver works. Not to lecture, but you really should move over to Windows 10.. there isn't much reason to not be on it any more.


----------



## eargasam

The rt doesn't support it.


----------



## jerick70

eargasam said:


> The rt doesn't support it.


The ADI-2 will work without Windows 10. The Surface RT will support it.  You should even get ASIO and  WASAPI.


----------



## eargasam

Thanks for the info, thinking of an upgrade from my regular amp, was considering this or the hugo 2.


----------



## jerick70

eargasam said:


> Thanks for the info, thinking of an upgrade from my regular amp, was considering this or the hugo 2.


In that price range you should look at the ADI-2 Pro also.  I thought it was superior to the ADI-2 DAC.  You also get a balanced headphone output and ripping capabilities.  You don't get either of these capabilities on the ADI-2 DAC or Hugo 2.


----------



## tekkster

eargasam said:


> Thanks for the info, thinking of an upgrade from my regular amp, was considering this or the hugo 2.




I have both.  You can't go wrong with either, but they have different advantages.

In pure data retrieval, the H2 beats the ADI-2 DAC, and if that's what you care about above all else, the H2 is for you.  The second advantage to the H2 is that it's more conveniently transportable, given its smaller size and internal batteries.  The third advantage, though this one is dubious, is that it also has bluetooth connectivity.

The ADI-2 has its own set of advantages.  The digital filters are much better than the H2 (more noticeable differences between filters).  The custom EQ settings are phenomenal, and as you probably have already read, the additional ability to adjust the EQ of the left and right signal is a big advantage for many.  The Hi-Power mode for the 6.3mm is great for basically anything shy of a 3watt requirement headphone (like the low sensitivity HE-6/6SE/1K/1Kv2).  The EQ memory is ideal if you have multiple headphones.  A lot of people dislike the loudness EQ, but I love it since I listen at very low volumes much of the time.  The spectrum analyzer is not only a joy to listen to, it's a great way to explore two things:  First, the music itself as it's coming out of the DAC, and second, to "see" what you should be hearing, vs. what you actually hear out of the headphone.  It's always interesting for me to listen to a song form the ADI-2 across multiple headphones and really get a feel for how the headphones react to the frequency range that's supposed to be heard.  Finally, if you care about such things, the ADI-2 has balanced outs.  And though I haven't tested this, I believe that by using either the digital inputs of coax or optical, you can actually turn the ADI-2 into a digital to digital audio interface (It has no ADC, but I believe can send digital data to a DAW.

Where they are both very similar are the quietness of the ports themselves.  Pretty much every other DAC/Amp I use is not dead silent, but the H2 and ADI-2 DAC really are incredibly quiet.


----------



## tekkster

jerick70 said:


> In that price range you should look at the ADI-2 Pro also.  I thought it was superior to the ADI-2 DAC.  You also get a balanced headphone output and ripping capabilities.  You don't get either of these capabilities on the ADI-2 DAC or Hugo 2.



I'm actually looking at the ADI-2 Pro now.  Decided not to get it because of the cost, but it's a great option.  The dual 6.3 for balanced out is a great idea.

I do a lot of recording, so have separate field and desktop recorders, but none are really ideal for leaving power on 24/7.
The ADI-2 Pro is designed to be on 24/7, so I could leave my AT4053B XLR phantom powered mic connected to the ADI-2 Pro all day long, which makes it a great option for recording as well as using as the main mic for conference calls and softphone.


----------



## jerick70

tekkster said:


> I'm actually looking at the ADI-2 Pro now.  Decided not to get it because of the cost, but it's a great option.  The dual 6.3 for balanced out is a great idea.
> 
> I do a lot of recording, so have separate field and desktop recorders, but none are really ideal for leaving power on 24/7.
> The ADI-2 Pro is designed to be on 24/7, so I could leave my AT4053B XLR phantom powered mic connected to the ADI-2 Pro all day long, which makes it a great option for recording as well as using as the main mic for conference calls and softphone.


The big advantage to the ADI-2 Pro is the fully dual mono architecture.  It really makes a difference in my listening.  Plus you get higher power output which gives you more headroom which translates into better dynamics.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

jerick70 said:


> The big advantage to the ADI-2 Pro is the fully dual mono architecture.  It really makes a difference in my listening.  Plus you get higher power output which gives you more headroom which translates into better dynamics.


I would like to leave my ADI-2 DAC all day, ive done it once or twice to see how it handles it and when you're not playing music its just there cool and normal.
but i think i have mine on auto-rest. if no music or input of any kind is made after a certain while, it goes into rest/off mode? screen off and the white circle turns red. its so awesome!


----------



## bidn

tekkster said:


> I'm actually looking at the ADI-2 Pro now.  Decided not to get it because of the cost, but it's a great option.  The dual 6.3 for balanced out is a great idea.
> 
> I do a lot of recording, so have separate field and desktop recorders, but none are really ideal for leaving power on 24/7.
> The ADI-2 Pro is designed to be on 24/7, so I could leave my AT4053B XLR phantom powered mic connected to the ADI-2 Pro all day long, which makes it a great option for recording as well as using as the main mic for conference calls and softphone.





tekkster said:


> I have both.  You can't go wrong with either, but they have different advantages.
> 
> In pure data retrieval, the H2 beats the ADI-2 DAC, and if that's what you care about above all else, the H2 is for you.  The second advantage to the H2 is that it's more conveniently transportable, given its smaller size and internal batteries.  The third advantage, though this one is dubious, is that it also has bluetooth connectivity.




Hi Tekkster,

I have the ADI-2 Pro, I leave it all the time on, it doesn't really get warm.
I believe that the ADI-2 Pro will give you a higher SQ than the ADI-2, e.g. when comparing it to the Hugo 2 for driving the Utopia.
I brought several times my ADI-2 Pro to my dealer to compare it against the Hugo 2 with the Utopia,
I could not hear a better data retrieval with the Hugo 2 over my RME ADI-2 Pro,
(however the Chord Dave leaves both in the dust...).

With the Utopia I hear definite improvements of my RME ADI-2 Pro with:
- dual mono set-up
- madiface upscaling
- BOTW P&P ECO 12 V - 13.2V.

It seems that the high-quality amp of the Pro is also more powerful than that of the ADI-2.

I suspect that RME would produce an upgraded DAC over a year on the basis of the very promising upcoming AK4499 after that chip enters mass-production, so you could also wait one more year, but this is not sure, just my guess.

Have a nice weekend,
bidn


----------



## tekkster

bidn said:


> Hi Tekkster,
> 
> I have the ADI-2 Pro, I leave it all the time on, it doesn't really get warm.
> I believe that the ADI-2 Pro will give you a higher SQ than the ADI-2, e.g. when comparing it to the Hugo 2 for driving the Utopia.
> ...




I don't know the Pro, but with the ADI-2 DAC, there are a lot of tracks where I can't tell the difference.  With most orchestral symphonies, for instance, the H2 and the ADI-2 DAC sound the same.  

But for some tracks, it's not hard to tell.

With the Utopia as my main headphone for all jazz music, I am at the point where on Keiko Matsui's Moyo (Heart & Soul), or Emily Bear's Hot Peppers, or the song Jazz Afrique from The Dirt Lounge album, and a few other tracks, I can tell the difference between the H2 and ADI-2, simply by having a friend plug into either one while I'm blindfolded.  Mostly I can tell from two things, the sharpness of the percussion, and how prominent the subtler instruments are.

Of course, I've never heard the Dave.  I imagine the difference would be significant.  

Jealous of your Chord Dave.  Have wanted one for years.


----------



## mixman

I have a question....... De-emphasis Auto or Off for USB input?


----------



## Dogmatrix

mixman said:


> I have a question....... De-emphasis Auto or Off for USB input?


I leave mine on auto . Not sure it is even active on usb input after a quick look at the manual


----------



## mixman

Dogmatrix said:


> I leave mine on auto . Not sure it is even active on usb input after a quick look at the manual



 Yes it is active on the USB input. Try it out. The treble increases a decent amount when the De-emphasis is set to off. Not having seen this function before, I am not sure which is correct, or is it just a preference thing?


----------



## Dogmatrix

mixman said:


> Yes it is active on the USB input. Try it out. The treble increases a decent amount when the De-emphasis is set to off. Not having seen this function before, I am not sure which is correct, or is it just a preference thing?


I guess on auto it will de-emphasis anything that has emphasis encoded . But as with all choices preference is king .


----------



## MikeW

De-emphasis is a legacy feature left over from years past. As hinted at above some content came coded for it, you’ll see it as a feature on old high fi gear from the 90’s


----------



## Luckbad

mixman said:


> Yes it is active on the USB input. Try it out. The treble increases a decent amount when the De-emphasis is set to off. Not having seen this function before, I am not sure which is correct, or is it just a preference thing?



Read the manual. It's a work of art and will answer basically every question you have. Leave it at its default (Auto).


----------



## Overclocked11

Well today was the best Monday I can recall from recent memory. Even after only a small amount of A/Bing between the UD-501 into G109 and the ADI-2 its already very clear the upgrade in high end, control over the low end, and overall presence in the midrange - vocals are far more forward.. very interested to see how the 109 will pair with the ADI-2, though power wise it absolutely doesn't need it, which is very promising indeed. I am stunned at the sound that comes out of this little package.. 

Will develop and collect some real impressions over the next few weeks, but I definitely can see what all the fuss is about.


----------



## domho7

Hi just wanna check if anyone using the RME adi 2 dac with gustard u16 interface. Tks.


----------



## technobear

mixman said:


> Yes it is active on the USB input. Try it out. The treble increases a decent amount when the De-emphasis is set to off. Not having seen this function before, I am not sure which is correct, or is it just a preference thing?


Some early CDs were made with pre-emphasis of the treble. There is a flag somewhere in the code which tells the DAC that pre-emphasis is in use. It was used as a noise reduction system (a bit like Dolby for cassette tapes). There is apparently more than one way of indicating pre-emphasis and not all CD players detect both or even either one. 

There is an article about ripping CDs with pre-emphasis here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ripping-cds-that-have-pre-emphasis.423506/


----------



## BrainFood (Apr 2, 2019)

domho7 said:


> Hi just wanna check if anyone using the RME adi 2 dac with gustard u16 interface. Tks.



Yup. Am

From U16..BNC ->coaxial RCA (Stereovox HDXV 1 metre).  I prefer the sound with RME (no U16).  It's just a slightly clearer window into the music.

However, I am unable to play 24 bit files when using JPLAY FEMTO (JP are looking into it) with RME no U16.  With U16 in the circuit, then 24 bit files play ok.  Arh!!

System is dual PC (USB)- Amber Regen -U16- (SPDIF) RME


----------



## domho7

Tks brain food for your fast reply. 
I am using A&K SR15 Dap I can have handshake compatibility with any dac that have xmos interface. Also have no problems with chord products. But any dac that have no xmos interface I won't hv handshake. 
But off late local gustard dealer let me try the U16 and phew I can hv handshake. 
I am connecting my dap micro USB to USB B.


----------



## mixman

Luckbad said:


> Read the manual. It's a work of art and will answer basically every question you have. Leave it at its default (Auto).





technobear said:


> Some early CDs were made with pre-emphasis of the treble. There is a flag somewhere in the code which tells the DAC that pre-emphasis is in use. It was used as a noise reduction system (a bit like Dolby for cassette tapes). There is apparently more than one way of indicating pre-emphasis and not all CD players detect both or even either one.
> 
> There is an article about ripping CDs with pre-emphasis here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ripping-cds-that-have-pre-emphasis.423506/



Well since I am using the USB input with Tidal and not dealing with any CD’s........shouldn’t this setting be left off? Both auto and on have lowered highs. With the De-emphasis off there is more treble. So it seems like a noise reduction system like Dolby and reduces the highs. I wouldn’t be talking about this except that other than EQ, ths setting probably has the most effect on my system.


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Seems like I have just gotten a thing to consider as my DAC. I noticed the RME quite a while ago, glossed over it as I only seen a picture of it, I thought oh cool spectrum display, my Oppo HA-1 has one. But recently I looked into it and the more I read about it, the more I want it. I have never considered many DAC's before, because well my CD player does just a fine job as any of them, but RME has gone way above and beyond, to make me consider it rather strongly.


----------



## abirdie4me

I haven't read all this forum, so please forgive me if this has already been answered. Since the ADI-1 DAC doesn't support MQA, what happens when a MQA track from Tidal comes up? Will it still play? If so, does it still sound good?


----------



## captblaze

abirdie4me said:


> I haven't read all this forum, so please forgive me if this has already been answered. Since the ADI-1 DAC doesn't support MQA, what happens when a MQA track from Tidal comes up? Will it still play? If so, does it still sound good?



if you play the file through the PC app you can let it do the initial unfold of the MQA track and it will be presented to your DAC in that resolution. how good it sounds is up to you


----------



## Luckbad

abirdie4me said:


> I haven't read all this forum, so please forgive me if this has already been answered. Since the ADI-1 DAC doesn't support MQA, what happens when a MQA track from Tidal comes up? Will it still play? If so, does it still sound good?



As mentioned above, it will play. Even with an MQA capable dac, I prefer to avoid MQA. Without going on a rant, I've not yet found MQA to be a positive change for any album.


----------



## abirdie4me

Luckbad said:


> As mentioned above, it will play. Even with an MQA capable dac, I prefer to avoid MQA. Without going on a rant, I've not yet found MQA to be a positive change for any album.



Thanks. I downloaded the trial of Qobuz and did a lot of a/b testing against Tidal last night. Honestly, I can't tell much difference, if any. I still prefer Tidal because I get 5 user accounts to share with my family, I like their dark mode interface, and I already have a year's worth of playlists created. As long as this DAC can still play Tidal MQA tracks and sound great, I think it may be my next audio device.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@abirdie4me Yes, the white interface of Qobuz bothers me. I usually listen in the evenings and there is no excuse for the eye-hurting brightness on the playlists. I contacted them and they said this:

"Chrome has a dark mode and our desktop player will soon support it." 

I tried Chrome's dark mode and it's really buggy, at least for me. It effectively inverts colors, so while the white backgrounds become black, other colors and text get transformed in bizarre ways. Maybe I am doing something wrong?


----------



## WildStyle-R11

On a side note, if a bright page is hurting your eyes that is because of your setup. If you want to be able to look at a white page, crank up your display brightness and sit in a well lit room. That helps a lot. On the other hand if you prefer dark background and sit in a rather dim room, you want to lower your brightness.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Understood and thanks for the advice. 

The point is that at 11 p.m. I do want to sit in a rather dim room, but Qobuz can only offer me a super white background for the desktop. How do I deal with that aside from turning on bright lights at that late hour? I much prefer the quality of Qobuz to Spotify, but the Spotify desktop app has a nice black background. This is my criticism, Qobuz does not give me the option to be in "evening mode" currently from a desktop perspective.


----------



## abirdie4me (Jul 3, 2019)

At least I can link Qobuz to Roon, which has a much better (dark) interface. My issue with Roon is there is no good way to search by file resolution, you have to go on a hunt for it. I understand the point is to listen to good music and not obsess about file resolution, but a better search functionality would come in handy for comparing headphones/speakers/dacs/amps, etc. Tidal makes it easy, there's an obvious 'M' by the track name or you can use the separate 'Masters' tab to find stuff to sample.

Given that my ears can't discern much difference between MQA and the native hi-res streaming of Qobuz, the choice between the two would break down as follows (for me):

Amount of available music that fits MY interests - Tie
Multiple users on single account - Tidal
Interface - Tidal
Price - Tie (costs a little more for Tidal but I get 5 accounts)
USA vs. France - N/A (some may care one way or the other, but I don't)
Jay-Z and other high-profile owners - N/A (some may care one way or the other, but I don't)
*MQA IS EVIL* - It sounds good to me, but not enough that I would forego an outstanding DAC like the RME ADI-2 because of it; I also wouldn't buy a great DAC like the Brooklyn + simply BECAUSE of MQA. But for those posters who talk about it being evil, I think that is way overboard. It's a technology that can deliver good (at least) quality and save you bandwidth, by a for-profit company. If you don't like their business model or technology, then don't buy or support it.


----------



## WildStyle-R11

There is also a program called "f.lux". I think windows also has some kind of "night" mode?

If all else fails, skew your hue.


----------



## hornytoad

abirdie4me said:


> Thanks. I downloaded the trial of Qobuz and did a lot of a/b testing against Tidal last night. Honestly, I can't tell much difference, if any. I still prefer Tidal because I get 5 user accounts to share with my family, I like their dark mode interface, and I already have a year's worth of playlists created. As long as this DAC can still play Tidal MQA tracks and sound great, I think it may be my next audio device.


Qobuz lacks a lot of indie artists I listen to.


----------



## WildStyle-R11

hornytoad said:


> Qobuz lacks a lot of indie artists I listen to.



Things like this is why I still, just collect music myself.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

MikeW said:


> Ok did a little testing for you. I no longer have a tidal membership so I can't test that for you. I make no guarantee of success. You may want to ask around a bit more. Here's what I did tonight:
> 
> Uninstalled the RME drivers and Madiface USB, rebooted and let the windows native driver take over.
> 
> ...


Very informative post and even prompted me to uninstall the RME drivers myself to get auto sampling rate switching to work. I uninstalled it all but Foobar WASAPI push still yells at me that I don't have the matching sampling rate set in the generic Win10 sound control panel. I go to the panel only to see 32-bit options available, so nothing is playable via wasapi. Looks like I'm installing the drivers again...




 

Rant: I can't believe this isn't more of an issue for people. Bit-perfect sampling rate switching was so seamless with my cheap SMSL DAC, big bummer it's such a process on the RME.


----------



## Luckbad

Weird. I'm going to check out WASAPI in foobar2000 tonight. I can use it and ASIO without issue in JRiver.


----------



## Luckbad (Apr 12, 2019)

I am able to select WASAPI 32-bit output data format in foobar2000 and it worked without issue.

While it's not showing a change in the Sound properties within Windows 10, it is showing the actual sample rate on the ADI-2 DAC.

It fails to function correctly using WASAPI (Event) mode in foobar2000 for me as well. Event style works fine in JRiver.


----------



## Mizicke5273

Give WASAPI Pull a try.  On my Gungnir, I had to switch from Event or Push to get it all working correctly.


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Blame windows as that is the root of the problem here. I'm even having problems with PCM I can't set it higher than 192 @ 24, or apps don't have any audio.


----------



## BrainFood (Apr 14, 2019)

Luckbad said:


> It fails to function correctly using WASAPI (Event) mode in foobar2000 for me as well. Event style works fine in JRiver.



Got a similar problem here. I use JPLAY 7 (femto), which uses kernal streaming for low latency playback, and a NUC PC as server/streamer via USB. The ADI-2 is unable to play 24 bit files, whereas 16/44 files play fine. Higher sample rates, such as 96k are okay, it's just the (hi res) bit rate that doesn't work.

Connecting my Gustard U16 DDC to the ADI-2 (via spdif), and using the U16's driver, then 24 bit files play perfectly.  Or if I swap the ADI for a Mytek Brooklyn, using the Mytek's driver, again 24 bit files.. no problemo.

Having liaised with JPLAY support, the problems appears to be that the RME windows driver (0.9861) does not support KS (wasapi even style) for hi res playback.

To illustrate this, I installed kernal streaming support component into Foobar 2000 and loaded up a 24 bit, 88k flac file of Alphonse Mouzon's Shoreline.  With 'KS: Madiface analoge 1&2' as device and 24 bit 'output data format', it says 'KS output error opening device'.  Whereas with 16 bit output selected, it works perfectly.

 I have the U16 to partner with the ADI-2 but unfortunately it doesn't sound quite as good as the ADI-2's USB input, so sticking with that at 16/44 for time being.


----------



## Luckbad

Post on the RME forums. They're very responsive.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Ok using an optical cable from the computer to the ADI-2 does auto sample rate switching and is actually faster at switching than USB. Only downsides are you are limited to 96kHz max and no DSD without resampling to 96kHz PCM or lower through software. I only have a handful of DSD files so I'm just going to deal with this for now.


----------



## technobear

Relaxasaurus said:


> Ok using an optical cable from the computer to the ADI-2 does auto sample rate switching and is actually faster at switching than USB. Only downsides are you are limited to 96kHz max and no DSD without resampling to 96kHz PCM or lower through software. I only have a handful of DSD files so I'm just going to deal with this for now.


This: https://www.audiostream.com/content/how-play-dsd-file-using-foobar2000

I'm listening to one right now and there is no problem switching between DSD128 and DSD256 and PCM44.1 and PCM48. It's seemless and the RME says it is receiving DSD when it should.

You guys need to stop fighting with inferior player software :-D


----------



## MagnusH

Relaxasaurus said:


> Ok using an optical cable from the computer to the ADI-2 does auto sample rate switching and is actually faster at switching than USB. Only downsides are you are limited to 96kHz max and no DSD without resampling to 96kHz PCM or lower through software. I only have a handful of DSD files so I'm just going to deal with this for now.


I play from toslink directly from computer, and can play up to 192khz PCM and DSD64 (DoP). DSD/DoP requires support for 176kHz which not all motherboard supports, so I bought a cheap toslink PCI card that supports it.


----------



## Relaxasaurus (Apr 14, 2019)

MagnusH said:


> I play from toslink directly from computer, and can play up to 192khz PCM and DSD64 (DoP). DSD/DoP requires support for 176kHz which not all motherboard supports, so I bought a cheap toslink PCI card that supports it.


That's great to know. My motherboard is over 10 years old and I assumed Toslink really hasn't changed, silly me. Can you share the card you're using, and are you able to use exclusive mode with Toslink? There are a lot of posts saying optical still has to be processed through a sound chip on the PC, many times being resampled before being sent across.

Edit: good read here...
https://ayrne.io/technology/mythbusters/toslink-optical-connections-support-24-192khz-audio/


----------



## MagnusH

This is the card I am using, supports everything up to 192kHz (including DSD64 over DoP for RME ADI-2 DAC):
https://www.computersalg.se/i/4622634/delock-ljudkort-24-bitars-192-khz

I also use a Lifatec toslink cable, but a better plastic one also works, the Lifatec did give a little cleaner sound and is very nicely made with metallic connectors that snaps perfectly in place: http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html
(the "cleaner sound" might be bias or imagination, but its not terrible expensive so I kept it)

I play from Roon, and the card supports both ASIO and WASAPI so I use exclusive mode from Roon. Not sure how it works for other music players.


----------



## MagnusH

Here is an english link to that card: https://www.delock.de/produkte/G_89640/merkmale.html?setLanguage=en


----------



## MagnusH

Or go the studio-way and buy an RME HDSPe AIO, but it costs a lot more and if you only use it for toslink out it feels overkill: https://www.thomann.de/se/rme_hdspe_aio.htm


----------



## musicfrommemory

MikeW said:


> I'll try to get some head time over the next week and post some impressions of the pairing with Liquid Platinum



Hi Mike, just trawled through your recent posts and couldn't find your impressions of the RME and Liquid Platinum pairing - I'm very interested to hear you find them together as have a Liquid Platinum en route to me and am looking to invest in the right DAC and right now the RME ADI-2 DAC is top of this list.

If it helps, I wouldn't even mind if you simply said just one of these words: awful, bad, moderate, good, spectacular 

Big thanks,

MFM


----------



## MikeW (Apr 14, 2019)

The pairing is quite good. The features of the RME compliment the Liquid Platinum very well. The RME is the best piece of audio gear i've ever owned however, it is spectacular. If I could only live with one, it would be the RME, but they do compliment each other. The LP brings out dynamic's a bit that are missing from the built in headphone amp (which I also find excellent). The RME's amp is so good, that you start hitting up against the diminishing returns wall rather quickly. Though i can confirm the LP does some things better. I found the RME's headamp to be much better then expected, and much better then I'd been led to believe beforehand. Quite competitive with anything at or under 500$ (jotunheim, THX789, Gilmore MK2 etc) , and some things that reach higher still. This is driving HD650, so a big YMMV with anything more demanding. LP's got way way more power on hand for example.


----------



## musicfrommemory

MikeW said:


> The pairing is quite good.



Thanks Mike - can't quite tell if that's a firm endorsement or not 

My set up will be MacBook Pro-> ADI-2 DAC -> Cavalli LP-> Ether 2s (which are just 16 ohms) so the DAC will act to also control the volume as the LP will likely be too loud at even 9PM so no problems with power demand.

Do you think there's any reason I shouldn't take the plunge?


----------



## MikeW

Should be good, the ADI-2 can also be battery powered if you ever need it.


----------



## oxide7

This is what i love about the adi-2 paired with the lcd-x... I know it may turn off some purists, but for me this is awesome because the adi produces it so well -- it's just so clean and doesnt make the rest of the sound muddy like a bad software implementation. Also the LCDs render it so well too... it reminds me of good car audio where you get that bass AND sq. Love this combo


----------



## Relaxasaurus

oxide7 said:


> This is what i love about the adi-2 paired with the lcd-x... I know it may turn off some purists, but for me this is awesome because the adi produces it so well -- it's just so clean and doesnt make the rest of the sound muddy like a bad software implementation. Also the LCDs render it so well too... it reminds me of good car audio where you get that bass AND sq. Love this combo


Hah, reminds me of my settings as well, though I have more of a gentle slope. I got my start in car audio too (using Focal no less) and appreciate some thumping depending on the song.

Because of that I supplement Peace APO on top of the ADI's eq and I get some pretty wild results


----------



## VRacer-111

Similar EQing for my modded STAX L300 Limiteds...


----------



## Focux

Any existing or previous owners who could chime in on this DAC compared to the Mojo and Hugo 1 & 2 or even the Qutest? 

Many thanks!


----------



## hornytoad

Focux said:


> Any existing or previous owners who could chime in on this DAC compared to the Mojo and Hugo 1 & 2 or even the Qutest?
> 
> Many thanks!


Better than the Mojo for sure . Haven’t heard the Hugo 1 or 2 .


----------



## Giacomino

[QUOTE = "Focux, post: 14905874, membro: 381853"] Eventuali proprietari esistenti o precedenti che potrebbero eseguire il controllo su questo DAC rispetto a Mojo e Hugo 1 & 2 o anche il Qutest?

Mille grazie! [/ QUOTE]

I had both Hugo2 and Burson conductor V2 + at home and chose the RME Adi2 with Focal Utopia headphones.


----------



## Aliv3

Is the RME ADI 2 better than the Sony TA-ZH1ES? I'm on the market for a amp Dac combo for my desk. 
Thanks


----------



## Overclocked11

Its been about two weeks now that I've had the ADI-2 and have had some time to play around with it on its own, A/B it a bit vs my teac UD-501 and line in to G109. So far I find I lean toward line out to the G109 as the go to... its a bit weird to explain since the ADI-2's headphone amp is plenty capable power wise, and offers a nice clean output, good separation and dynamics, yet for some reason I still find myself gravitating to the G109 for final output. 
Perhaps its the type of music I'm listening to, but it just gives music more slam, enriches the lower mids and bottom end much more (at the slight cost of control) and just overall brings the sound more forward. I experienced the same when I first got it and paired it with the UD-501 so really that speaks more toward the 109 than anything else. The pairing itself though with the ADI-2 is very good, but I don't know that I would feel like I was missing out necessarily if I didn't have it and just used ADI-2 as the all in one. 

That all said, I am loving the clean sound that comes out of the ADI-2 and the functionality it provides. I can see myself rolling through a bunch of different headphones and IEMs over the next few years trying to find the ideal synergy with my hardware.. so far using the IMR R1 and Atticus sounds amazing, especially the Atticus.. its given it so much more sparkle and yet still remains smooth in mostly everything I listen to. With a slight bass boost at 200 and below they are really full and punchy, and the ADI-2 has helped to bring forward vocals way better than the 501 ever could. 

I'm still collecting a lot more impressions, but its sounding superb so far. What a piece of kit this is..


----------



## musicfrommemory

Chaps, technical question: there is some discussion on the Cavalli Liquid Platinum thread regarding attenuation and whether to control the volume on a DAC or on an amp (assuming you have a separate amp following the DAC.) Some DACs attenuate digitally and through doing so eat into the quality of the digital stream, negatively affecting the quality of its output. Some DACs attenuate passively, i.e., the attenuation is done outside of the digital stream so the digital quality is unaffected.

The question is: Does anyone know how the RME attenuates volume?

This from their website (but I have no idea what it means):

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/adi_2-dac.php

*Improving DA*

With the DAC RME engineers took the opportunity to slightly enhance the DAC's analog output stage to be even more perfect as it already was. More relays, a different double symmetrical attenuator circuit and one additional buffer OP amp succeed in less noise and less THD. As the DAC-chip is the limiting factor here this is hard to measure, but nevertheless an important improvement, especially at lower hardware output levels typical for Cinch/RCA usage. The new hardware reference levels of +13 dBu, +7 dBu, +1 dBu and -5 dBu also add to this.


----------



## MikeW

The ADI-2 uses a combination of automatic analog and digital attenuation. The on screen volume indicator dynamically adjust the volume digitally until certain setpoints then drops analog volume. It's an intelligent mechanism that basically minimizes the digital attenuation needed to get the volume level you want. 

If none of that makes sense to you, just know that the volume attenuation on the ADI-2 is very well implemented and has little to no impact on sonic performance.


----------



## Phoniac

Well said!

musicfrommemory, the DAC's manual includes a whole chapter on this topic, so if you want more details read it:

http://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dac_e.pdf


----------



## musicfrommemory

Phoniac said:


> Well said!
> 
> musicfrommemory, the DAC's manual includes a whole chapter on this topic, so if you want more details read it:
> 
> http://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dac_e.pdf



Thanks both - I’ll get reading!


----------



## bwcgrx

Focux said:


> Any existing or previous owners who could chime in on this DAC compared to the Mojo and Hugo 1 & 2 or even the Qutest?
> 
> Many thanks!



I own a Mojo and while it is really a nice DAC especially for portable use the RME ADI-2 is the better piece of gear.  Both as DAC and headphone amp.  It should be at twice the price.  Don't let anyone fool you into thinking the amp in the RME is sub par.  It is clean and transparent with more than enough power for all but the absolute most demanding headphones.  Some may want more warmth in and amp but that's what tubes are for.  I run my RME into a Bottlehead Crack for my higher ohm Sennhiser and Byerdynamic headphones.  It is worth noting that the RME's amp can power my Beyer 880 600 ohms fine but I do have to turn it up quite high.  The Crack can push them beyond and I still get the awesomely low noise floor and dynamics of the RME with just touch warmth and euphonic distortion from the Crack.

I can't speak for other Chord gear as I've never heard them much less owned them.


----------



## MikeW (Apr 20, 2019)

I agree with bwcgrx comments, I own the adi-2 and liquid platinum, and i've owned other gear in the past. Never compared to the Hugo though. The LP's great for adding a bit of warmth and dynamics to the ADI, but I too found it's headphone amp rather excellent, particularly nice when EQ'ed to taste, as it's a bit dry when flat (as designed). You get so much value out of this device as an all in one, i'd not bother with a ~400$ dac and 400$ amp, or any other combination of sub 1000$ amp and dac combo. Just get this and your done. As clean and tranparent as the built in headphone amp is, it really lends itself very well to EQ customization. You can tailor that to sound like just about anything you want. Though it cannot replicate tubes, as there's no way to add  distortion to this device without a tube pre and/or headphone amp. It does use the same OP-AMPs that are in the THX 789, and although not as powerful and a more simple circuit, those who have compared the two find them quite similiar in performance. This is why i shake my head when I see people buying 789's for 700$ on ebay.. so much ignorance. 

The ADI-2 can be made portable as well, for those that care. There's an official dev response on the rme forums about what gear is needed, basically a lithium ion battery bank(like the kind you'd use to charge a phone) and the appropriate power cord.


----------



## Focux

MikeW said:


> I agree with bwcgrx comments, I own the adi-2 and liquid platinum, and i've owned other gear in the past. Never compared to the Hugo though. The LP's great for adding a bit of warmth and dynamics to the ADI, but I too found it's headphone amp rather excellent, particularly nice when EQ'ed to taste, as it's a bit dry when flat (as designed). You get so much value out of this device as an all in one, i'd not bother with a ~400$ dac and 400$ amp, or any other combination of sub 1000$ amp and dac combo. Just get this and your done. As clean and tranparent as the built in headphone amp is, it really lends itself very well to EQ customization. You can tailor that to sound like just about anything you want. Though it cannot replicate tubes, as there's no way to add  distortion to this device without a tube pre and/or headphone amp. It does use the same OP-AMPs that are in the THX 789, and although not as powerful and a more simple circuit, those who have compared the two find them quite similiar in performance. This is why i shake my head when I see people buying 789's for 700$ on ebay.. so much ignorance.
> 
> The ADI-2 can be made portable as well, for those that care. There's an official dev response on the rme forums about what gear is needed, basically a lithium ion battery bank(like the kind you'd use to charge a phone) and the appropriate power cord.



thank you both for sharing

the diff between the ADI-2 DAC and Qutest is abt USD400,

will prob end up going with either one and a HeadAmp Gilmore Lite MKii or AudioGD NFB1AMP

but leaning toward qutest and sticking to current JDS Atom


----------



## Barratana

As I´m looking for a new dac/amp I´ve been interested reading all your coments on this RME ADI-2 DAC. I´m not able to listen before buying all your inputas are welcome.
I have been testing Chord Hugo 2 and questyle 800i and both impressed me quite a bit, nevertheless as always the price as an inportant role on my choices, and so I would like to know if someone tested the RME against questyle 400i or Audio GD 28.23.
I use on my desktop a JDS O2 Amp and DAC and on the office the Fiio 10k and the Xduoo XD-05. On my main system rega dac and Musical Fidelity Xcan V3 are used to feed my headphones ( mainly Massdrop 6xx, Monolith M560, and PSB M4U1  although I have others that are now used less )
The idea is to have an ultimate upgrade both on headphones and DAC Amp and stop for a whyle ( I´ll try to see if it is possible ).

For the headphones on my list I have the sennheiser 800, Audeze LCD-X and Audeze LCD2 -C, Grado 500E are the next ones to test, on the DAC Amp side, Hugo 2, Questyle 400i, 600i or 800i, Audio GD 28.38 11.28 and now the RME that looks from the specifications and funcionality a beast!

Any experience on RME against Questyle gear?


----------



## Ihearthead

Hi, I'm relatively new to headphone systems.

I'm interested in acquiring a DAC to pair with my Rupert Neve RNHP amp for use as a desktop system. What is the difference between the RME ADI-2 DAC vs. the slightly lower priced RME ADI-2 (pictured below)? 

Hoping to save a few $ if there is no sonic difference. They both appear to utilize the SteadyClock where the latter lacks the fine tuning menu options of the ADI-2 DAC. Also lacks a few inputs which I think is fine.. (or not?). I plan to use the Toslink input for my configuration.  

Thanks in advance


----------



## MikeW (Apr 22, 2019)

Those are very different products. Definitely read up. I can tell you the adi-2 is much older and designed for the pro market. While the Dac is a newer design with more features and a different target audience. I don’t even know if they use the same Dac chip and/or op-amps for head amp stage.

You give up quite a few consumer desirable features to save very little. Resale will also be more difficult. I would not do it. I had to have USB so it was a non starter for me. There is a pretty long list of things the Dac version does that are missing from the pro model, and the pro model does ADC which you’ll likely never need.

That headphone amp(RNHP) looks only decent, I’d not be surprised if an adi-2 Dac would easily replace it.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Personally if the ADI-2 DAC didn't have it's PEQ functionality I would have looked elsewhere. I hope more manufactures in the future look at integrating this feature.


----------



## MikeW

Relaxasaurus said:


> Personally if the ADI-2 DAC didn't have it's PEQ functionality I would have looked elsewhere. I hope more manufactures in the future look at integrating this feature.



That was a big influence on me too. But after owning it, I think it’s such a great value that is buy it even without its peq.


----------



## hornytoad

MikeW said:


> That was a big influence on me too. But after owning it, I think it’s such a great value that is buy it even without its peq.


Completely agree.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

hornytoad said:


> Completely agree.



Same here. I was impressed by the sound quality improvement over the GD m900 within the first minute, before playing around with the multitude of features.


----------



## Ihearthead

Thanks for your replies! Turns out my mobo has a built ESS Sabre ES9023P DAC, TI RC4580 op-amp & Nichicon caps that I'll need to bypass so Toslink is out and need the USB connection after all. Placed an order for the ADI-2 DAC, now have to wait until they're restocked; appears its sold out everywhere


----------



## mglg

Anyone has compared the DAC vs the new Pro FS model? Is there any sonic difference?


----------



## Phoniac

Note that the 'DAC' has been a 'DAC FS' from the beginning, it was the Pro later being updated to FS. I doubt there is a sound difference. IMHO it's more about a different feature set.


----------



## MikeW

the pro model's more about features for recording, great if you need that, unnecessary if your just using it for playback


----------



## Luckbad

The Pro is also an ADC. There are a few minor differences, but not in DAC performance. The ADI-2 DAC is arguably superior to the Pro for most people since it has a remote and an IEM output. 

I've nearly pulled the trigger on the Pro FS a few times but I use both of those features and don't want to lose them.


----------



## mgh24

I've been getting into more mid-fi gear lately, and have some basic understanding, but had some questions I hoped someone could help with.

If using the unit as a standalone DAC, then it would be line out to my headphone amp, correct?  Then that would mean all the filtering and EQ capabilities would be lost?  

As to the EQ, how much dB boost is it capable of?  I have used a software parametric EQ in the past, and very much liked it once I got comfortable with how to use it.

For some background, my go-to headphones are Grado RS2e, but through inexpensive Magni/Modi stack they are underwhelming, to my ears anyway. From the Modi to Project Ember, they really begin to shine.  

Thanks for any help.


----------



## MikeW (Apr 27, 2019)

The EQ's effects the line out and balanced output as well as built in headphone amps. So the effects are not lost. It has a range of +12 to -12 DB. I don't know what headphone amp you intend to hook it up to, but this Headphone amp would significantly outperform the Magni in your sig. Unless you have some much higher end gear  your hiding, the ADI-2 would replace and make your entire stack rather redundant. Outperforming it in every regard, though it should at triple the cost.


----------



## mglg

Phoniac said:


> Note that the 'DAC' has been a 'DAC FS' from the beginning, it was the Pro later being updated to FS. I doubt there is a sound difference. IMHO it's more about a different feature set.


 I heard the SE out should eb the same between DAC and Pro. Not sure if the balanced out in pro is an improvement over the DAC


----------



## mgh24

MikeW said:


> The EQ's effects the line out and balanced output as well as built in headphone amps. So the effects are not lost. It has a range of +12 to -12 DB. I don't know what headphone amp you intend to hook it up to, but this Headphone amp would significantly outperform the Magni in your sig. Unless you have some much higher end gear  your hiding, the ADI-2 would replace and make your entire stack rather redundant. Outperforming it in every regard, though it should at triple the cost.



Hey thanks! Just what I  needed to know. 

I listen almost exclusively through the Garage 1217 Ember and the FOZ SSX, the tube(s) sound far better than the SS Magni. It is the only SS amp I've heard. I  would like to try the ADI-2 as a replacement for the chain I have, though may still keep the Ember.


----------



## Luckbad

The RME ADI-2 DAC going into the Garage1217 Project Sunrise III is stellar. It's one of my favorite synergies of any setup. To be fair, I significantly prefer the Sunrise/Horizon to the Ember, but the Ember should be a solid pairing as well.


----------



## MikeW

Yeah, a little tube magic works wonders with the ADI, I enjoy mine with the Liquid Platinum, I also find it quite good on it's own.


----------



## wirebrat

Opinions: 

PS Audio Ultimate Outlet -> ADI-2 DAC -> Liquid Platinum -> Focal Utopia

I have all but the Liquid Platinum. Looking to see if a dedicated amplifier is going to make much of a difference. I like the idea of rolling tubes to tweak things out, but not if the pairing isn't going to make much of a difference.

I know some are not believers in power products and have read a few reviews and comments noting the power supply of the ADI-2 DAC gets things done. I did enough A/B tests with the PS Audio UO to feel it made an appreciable difference in the overall sound stage IMO. It's added a presence that wasn't there before adding it into the system. YMMV,  I use a standard line cord with it.


----------



## MikeW

Im not sure what your question is, but I own the PS Audio Duet, the ADI-2 DAC FS, and the Liquid Platinum. It's a good pairing. Im pleased with it, and the liquid platinum is a nice amp for a bit of tube flavor. The built in ADI amp is also quite good if your after flat solid state, clean sound. They compliment each other quite well, as the ADI-2's volume control is a nice/necessary feature for the Liquid Platinum, which lacks gain control. The LP's a bit more dynamic then the amp in the ADI, and of course tubes add flavor, as does the PEQ feature in the adi-2. Im not a huge believer in power products, but I do believe in buying a product that does two things.. A. protect's your gear, and B. does no harm, and I believe PS audio's power products do this.


----------



## mixman

MikeW said:


> Im not sure what your question is, but I own the PS Audio Duet, the ADI-2 DAC FS, and the Liquid Platinum. It's a good pairing. Im pleased with it, and the liquid platinum is a nice amp for a bit of tube flavor. The built in ADI amp is also quite good if your after flat solid state, clean sound. They compliment each other quite well, as the ADI-2's volume control is a nice/necessary feature for the Liquid Platinum, which lacks gain control. The LP's a bit more dynamic then the amp in the ADI, and of course tubes add flavor, as does the PEQ feature in the adi-2. Im not a huge believer in power products, but I do believe in buying a product that does two things.. A. protect's your gear, and B. does no harm, and I believe PS audio's power products do this.



Did you also own a THX too? If so how does the LP compare? Not sure if I want to shell out the money for a GSX mini or a Master 9 to get a decent improvement in sound from my THX or RME.


----------



## mglg

Pulled trigger on the ADI-2 DAC, very exciting to pair it with utopia. Any recommendation for portable battery and power cable?


----------



## Relaxasaurus

mglg said:


> Pulled trigger on the ADI-2 DAC, very exciting to pair it with utopia. Any recommendation for portable battery and power cable?


Are you going to use an amp?


----------



## Phoniac

mglg said:


> Pulled trigger on the ADI-2 DAC, very exciting to pair it with utopia. Any recommendation for portable battery and power cable?



From the horse's mouth:
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25745


----------



## mglg

Relaxasaurus said:


> Are you going to use an amp?


Probably not.


----------



## MikeW

There may be better options available on Amazon. If you search for 12 V power bank, Some that are designed for laptops have 50,000 MAH and out put 12 V


----------



## mglg

MikeW said:


> There may be better options available on Amazon. If you search for 12 V power bank, Some that are designed for laptops have 50,000 MAH and out put 12 V


I did see some options there. Does it need to have a DC out port? Or normal usb out with a usb-dc converter cable is fine.


----------



## MikeW

It needs 12v dc. I think you need bank with proper 12v out, most of them are user selectable


----------



## mglg

MikeW said:


> It needs 12v dc. I think you need bank with proper 12v out, most of them are user selectable



Thanks. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B074PQBRJV/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=AETMPL12BRMYU&psc=1 this one looks good.


----------



## MagnusH

Has anyone compared toslink to a high quality ethernet transport, like sotm ultra, ultraRendu etc, for the RME ADI-2 DAC? I have compared toslink from computer to Allo USBridge (running on battery), but could not detect any differences. If anything, I think toslink sounded better.


----------



## Anaz

MagnusH said:


> Has anyone compared toslink to a high quality ethernet transport, like sotm ultra, ultraRendu etc, for the RME ADI-2 DAC? I have compared toslink from computer to Allo USBridge (running on battery), but could not detect any differences. If anything, I think toslink sounded better.



You can download the "Bit Test Wav Files for ADI-2 Pro / AE / DAC" from RME's website and test your connection.


----------



## MagnusH

Anaz said:


> You can download the "Bit Test Wav Files for ADI-2 Pro / AE / DAC" from RME's website and test your connection.


Yes, but that does not test jitter which is a problem with toslink.

I could rewrite my question like this: is the RME ADI-2 DAC reclocking of toslink good enough to give toslink the same sound quality as a high level ethernet transport.


----------



## elmoe

Well my ADI-2 "died" last night. No longer recognizes a USB connection, with 2 different cables, on 3 different computers. Optical in works fine, USB shows disconnected no matter what I try.

Good thing I bought this new. Needless to say I am thinking about selling the replacement as soon as I get it or ask for a refund and move on to something with a little better build quality...


----------



## Relaxasaurus

elmoe said:


> Well my ADI-2 "died" last night. No longer recognizes a USB connection, with 2 different cables, on 3 different computers. Optical in works fine, USB shows disconnected no matter what I try.
> 
> Good thing I bought this new. Needless to say I am thinking about selling the replacement as soon as I get it or ask for a refund and move on to something with a little better build quality...


Ugh, sorry to hear. Did it die while in use or just when you first turned it on?

I would say try a firmware upgrade but you need USB to do that.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@elmoe Do you think you might be overreacting? No one else has reported this issue. From your singular experience you conclude (swiftly) that this model has build quality issues?


----------



## elmoe

Relaxasaurus said:


> Ugh, sorry to hear. Did it die while in use or just when you first turned it on?
> 
> I would say try a firmware upgrade but you need USB to do that.



I moved it from one PC to another, looks like it wasn't happy with that. I upgraded the FW first thing when I got it ~2 months ago to v25, but yeah it needs USB for FW upgrades so I am stuck.



CaptainFantastic said:


> @elmoe Do you think you might be overreacting? No one else has reported this issue. From your singular experience you conclude (swiftly) that this model has build quality issues?



No it definitely wasn't overheating, it wasn't even in use when the USB died.

Considering I bought it brand new 2 months ago and it worked fine until now, yes, I can safely conclude this is a QC/QA issue. The USB input basically died on me out of the blue. On a $1000 unit that's pretty much brand new, that's definitely a concern. I take extremely good care of my gear and still have the first DAC I ever bought 15 years ago (Benchmark DAC1) which still works great


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@elmoe What I am saying is make the difference between the unit (yours) and the model (all units). Has anyone else reported USB connection failure like this? I have not seen it in the past 80 pages here. So it is safe to assume that this is an isolated incident. Remember that RME does not manufacture all components from scratch. One of the widgets from a supplier might have malfunctioned. If your unit worked fine for two months, how would their QC have caught it? And since this has not been reported by others, it does seem that they use quality parts/suppliers, but nothing is 100% all the time.

What I am saying is - if you liked the RME ADI-2 DAC, keep the replacement if that's what it comes down to. Don't overreact and conclude that will fail too. Mine has been running flawlessly since December.


----------



## talmadge

I agree. I don’t think RME has a quality control problem. You just got an unlucky break. It happens with everybody’s products.


----------



## elmoe (May 5, 2019)

CaptainFantastic said:


> @elmoe What I am saying is make the difference between the unit (yours) and the model (all units). Has anyone else reported USB connection failure like this? I have not seen it in the past 80 pages here. So it is safe to assume that this is an isolated incident. Remember that RME does not manufacture all components from scratch. One of the widgets from a supplier might have malfunctioned. If your unit worked fine for two months, how would their QC have caught it? And since this has not been reported by others, it does seem that they use quality parts/suppliers, but nothing is 100% all the time.
> 
> What I am saying is - if you liked the RME ADI-2 DAC, keep the replacement if that's what it comes down to. Don't overreact and conclude that will fail too. Mine has been running flawlessly since December.



I am not concluding the replacement will fail, just that the first one dying is cause for concern. QC is not just plugging it in and checking it works, and USB interfaces don't just die for no reason.

Certainly, I hope I caught an unlucky break and this is one out of a thousand, that being said it does not give me confidence in RME products to have the USB interface die after 2 months of normal operation. If the whole unit had died I would feel differently, since a power surge etc could be the issue, but for the USB interface only to die out is definitely cause for concern.

Keep in mind this model has not been out very long either. They could have a problem they don't know about yet.

It's perfectly OK if you feel differently. Just giving my opinion as a QA engineer myself.


----------



## technobear

elmoe said:


> I am not concluding the replacement will fail, just that the first one dying is cause for concern. QC is not just plugging it in and checking it works, and USB interfaces don't just die for no reason.
> 
> Certainly, I hope I caught an unlucky break and this is one out of a thousand, that being said it does not give me confidence in RME products to have the USB interface die after 2 months of normal operation. If the whole unit had died I would feel differently, since a power surge etc could be the issue, but for the USB interface only to die out is definitely cause for concern.
> 
> ...


Did you install the RME USB driver on the other PCs before attempting to connect it?

Are you trying to use WASAPI? Use ASIO.

Have you set the USB driver to a higher frequency than 192k? If so, Windows won't see it.


----------



## elmoe

technobear said:


> Did you install the RME USB driver on the other PCs before attempting to connect it?
> 
> Are you trying to use WASAPI? Use ASIO.
> 
> Have you set the USB driver to a higher frequency than 192k? If so, Windows won't see it.



RME driver is for ASIO only, you don't need a driver installed for WASAPI, though I installed just in case.

The unit is not detected by the PC, nor detecting a USB connection, so there is no setting sampling rates.


----------



## butch111

elmoe said:


> Well my ADI-2 "died" last night. No longer recognizes a USB connection, with 2 different cables, on 3 different computers. Optical in works fine, USB shows disconnected no matter what I try.
> 
> Good thing I bought this new. Needless to say I am thinking about selling the replacement as soon as I get it or ask for a refund and move on to something with a little better build quality...




mmd )

please tell us what you going to buy then.


----------



## butch111 (May 5, 2019)

elmoe said:


> I moved it from one PC to another, looks like it wasn't happy with that. I upgraded the FW first thing when I got it ~2 months ago to v25, but yeah it needs USB for FW upgrades so I am stuck.
> 
> No it definitely wasn't overheating, it wasn't even in use when the USB died.
> 
> Considering I bought it brand new 2 months ago and it worked fine until now, yes, I can safely conclude this is a QC/QA issue. The USB input basically died on me out of the blue. On a $1000 unit that's pretty much brand new, that's definitely a concern. I take extremely good care of my gear and still have the first DAC I ever bought 15 years ago (Benchmark DAC1) which still works great



ok...after that post i dont need to know what you are going to buy next.


----------



## elmoe (May 5, 2019)

Well, I haven't settled on not keeping the replacement yet, but if I don't, then a Dangerous Music Convert-2 more than likely.


----------



## elmoe

butch111 said:


> ok...after that post i dont need to know what you are going to buy next.



Fanboi level over 9000.

Sorry you feel attacked by my lack of confidence in a DAC that died after 2 months of use. I'm sure RME is very thankful for your faith in them.

In the meantime, I will keep on raising concerns on gear that tends to crap out before its time.


----------



## Overclocked11

technobear said:


> Have you set the USB driver to a higher frequency than 192k? If so, Windows won't see it.



This is actually not true on my case.. I can set to 384khz and windows sees it and plays it fine, but that is it's limit. Any higher and Windows won't detect it as an audio device any longer.

This is on the latest version of Windows 10 btw.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

elmoe said:


> Fanboi level over 9000.
> 
> Sorry you feel attacked by my lack of confidence in a DAC that died after 2 months of use. I'm sure RME is very thankful for your faith in them.
> 
> In the meantime, I will keep on raising concerns on gear that tends to crap out before its time.



Unfair to call him, or us fanboys, for pointing out that you are over reacting and generalizing based on one single unit. Slow down please. This problem, as far as we know, has only happened with your unit. Re-read your original post. It reads like somebody shooting from the hip, not thinking, accusing an entire product line based on what, on one failure. Just... slow down.


----------



## Luckbad

Strange to hear that the USB died. In the pro world, RME is notoriously reliable. I get the desire to check out the Dangerous Music Convert-2, though. If it wasn't so costly, I'd have tried it out by now.


----------



## elmoe (May 5, 2019)

Luckbad said:


> Strange to hear that the USB died. In the pro world, RME is notoriously reliable. I get the desire to check out the Dangerous Music Convert-2, though. If it wasn't so costly, I'd have tried it out by now.



I actually considered it before the RME but ended up going with the cheaper option. I'm very surprised also, this is the kind of failure that typically gets caught by QC, and as you said RME has a reputation for reliability, though their FireWire interface has been known to crap out on people in the past.



CaptainFantastic said:


> Unfair to call him, or us fanboys, for pointing out that you are over reacting and generalizing based on one single unit. Slow down please. This problem, as far as we know, has only happened with your unit. Re-read your original post. It reads like somebody shooting from the hip, not thinking, accusing an entire product line based on what, on one failure. Just... slow down.



Slow down there. I realize some feelings are getting hurt over my opinion, but it remains just my opinion. My losing confidence in this particular model doesn't mean you should if your experience has been positive so far. That being said, if you buy a car and it breaks down on you soon after, you tend to move on and buy a different one and not get the same model. There's no overreaction from this line of thinking, I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that if an implementation fails by itself, it could very well be related to how the USB was implemented (circuit design) rather than faulty hardware.

If it was faulty hardware, then QC should've caught it. If it wasn't, then it's likely the circuit design is at fault and that doesn't give me confidence to keep a replacement that has the potential to die within a few months.

Again, nobody has been using this DAC for more than a little over a year. If we were talking about a unit that was known to have no issue for a decade of use, there would be less concern.

Regardless, I am just sharing my experience. It's OK to disagree and I hope all your units give you listening pleasure for many years to come.


----------



## elmoe

Looks like I'm not the only one:

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28321

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27786

Didn't look through every thread but that's at least 2 other units displaying the same symptoms as mine.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@elmoe Fair enough, good find. Sounds like particular issues in the setups of the people experiencing the problem. On the one side the manufacturer is saying thousands have no issues, on the other side the users are fairly saying why is it only this DAC that has an issue in my system. Based on this, it looks like you really should change from the ADI-2. It doesn't like your system unfortunately.


----------



## elmoe (May 5, 2019)

CaptainFantastic said:


> @elmoe Fair enough, good find. Sounds like particular issues in the setups of the people experiencing the problem. On the one side the manufacturer is saying thousands have no issues, on the other side the users are fairly saying why is it only this DAC that has an issue in my system. Based on this, it looks like you really should change from the ADI-2. It doesn't like your system unfortunately.



I don't believe that is the issue. It's not like the DAC works on other computers, it used to work just fine and is now not detected by 3 different PCs, using different USB cables. Not a compatibility issue, the USB interface died on me.

It's also interesting that the warranty on these units is only 6 months. Good thing I have roughly 4 months left on it.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

But it sounds like it died because of what happened on the first PC, correct? So there is no chance of it coming back to life on the 2nd and 3rd, even if there the issue does not exist?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

From what Matthias said in the thread you linked to:

"
While mostly known from FireWire, static electricity and very different ground levels between two USB devices can also damage the USB receiver chip. Every USB unit (should) has a protective circuit to prevent that - these are standard components build for exactly that application.

In case a dangerous voltage occurs the protective component can short that voltage and thus protect the USB receiver. It now depends on the amount of voltage and the power (time) of higher voltage if a) the dangerous voltage is just collapsing and that's it, b) the protective component is destroyed, c) protective component and USB receiver are destroyed.

In your case it seems that you have a very high floating voltage on your notebook, which is shorted to ground over the ADI and the units connected to its analog outputs. You should make sure the laptop is properly grounded, same with your monitors/amps. And maybe get someone with a voltage meter to check the current situation.

It also seems when you don't change the setup the next ADI will die soon..."

So it is the particular first PC set up that killed the USB?


----------



## elmoe

CaptainFantastic said:


> From what Matthias said in the thread you linked to:
> 
> "
> While mostly known from FireWire, static electricity and very different ground levels between two USB devices can also damage the USB receiver chip. Every USB unit (should) has a protective circuit to prevent that - these are standard components build for exactly that application.
> ...



The unit worked fine on PC #1(desktop) and PC #2 (NUC, the one I mainly used in the last 2 months) originally.

It died after being hooked up to PC #3, also a desktop build. Interestingly, I figured it may have been the USB port and hooked up a few different devices to that same port (USB to SPDiF interface, smartphone, PS4 controller) all of which worked just fine and still work.


----------



## kundica

elmoe said:


> Looks like I'm not the only one:
> 
> https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28321
> 
> ...


If you read through the first thread, you'll find that the user was at fault due to some grounding shenanigans in his setup. It's not clear in the second post.

I work in a professional film and video production environment. RME is known as one of the most reliable manufacturers in the industry in terms of their hardware and drivers, earning that reputation for providing equipment that's used daily in demanding environments over many years of service. They're also known for outstanding customer service. You're making some huge generalizations that it's a QC issue of the device when there's a chance you shorted it yourself through other faulty or misconfigured hardware.


----------



## elmoe

kundica said:


> If you read through the first thread, you'll find that the user was at fault due to some grounding shenanigans in his setup. It's not clear in the second post.
> 
> I work in a professional film and video production environment. RME is known as one of the most reliable manufacturers in the industry in terms of their hardware and drivers, earning that reputation for providing equipment that's used daily in demanding environments over many years of service. They're also known for outstanding customer service. You're making some huge generalizations that it's a QC issue of the device when there's a chance you shorted it yourself through other faulty or misconfigured hardware.



If you read through the thread the person also says he has never had any issues with any other USB device, only the RME is failing, nothing else. Moreover, it failed twice for him, even after the board was replaced.

Do you work for RME or something?


----------



## kundica

elmoe said:


> Do you work for RME or something?


Nope. Just reliably used their hardware in demanding situations on productions with budgets reaching into the low millions.


----------



## elmoe

Well I am glad that you've had nothing but good experience with them. That is not the case for me and apparently a few others. Considering nothing else is failing by being plugged into the same USB port and the other people with issues have the same experience, my conclusion is that whatever surge protection is implemented on the USB interface is sub standard and considering the price of the unit, that is a concern.

Hopefully as pointed out in this thread their customer service is excellent and I will get a replacement without any hassle, or better yet a full refund so I can move on to a unit made by a company that does a better job at protecting their circuitry and offers more than a 6 months warranty on devices in that price range.


----------



## Slaphead

elmoe said:


> Well I am glad that you've had nothing but good experience with them. That is not the case for me and apparently a few others. Considering nothing else is failing by being plugged into the same USB port and the other people with issues have the same experience, my conclusion is that whatever surge protection is implemented on the USB interface is sub standard and considering the price of the unit, that is a concern.
> 
> Hopefully as pointed out in this thread their customer service is excellent and I will get a replacement without any hassle, or better yet a full refund so I can move on to a unit made by a company that does a better job at protecting their circuitry *and offers more than a 6 months warranty on devices in that price range.*



No, it's 2 years. It's a legal requirement in Europe.


----------



## elmoe (May 5, 2019)

Slaphead said:


> No, it's 2 years. It's a legal requirement in Europe.



It might be 2 years in Europe but in my manual it specifically says 6 months:


----------



## butch111 (May 5, 2019)

Senseseless to talk to someone like you - in germany where rme come from, there are 2 different kind of warranty. (garantie and  gewährleistung)

the first 6 month are
unconditionally...the next 18 month of warranty you have to prove that rme build an faulty dac/amp...but no manufacturer do it like this. (only a very few do it - sony for example)

With the rme you have a great product - unbeatable by far in its pricerange.
And for me the quality is stunning.
1 or 2 defects from many thousands is very good. Everything else is bull for me.


(sorry 4 my english)


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@elmoe I think you should buy that other DAC for $3k. Honestly. You will never be happy or at ease with the RME ADI-2. The other 99% can continue enjoying it however, if you don't mind.


----------



## elmoe

Yep, that's the plan. I should've known better than to give my opinion and share my experience here. As usual the FOTM 50 post HFiers will defend their choice of spending money to the death.

Hopefully someone on the fence reading this will spend their money more wisely. Should've bought American-made


----------



## Overclocked11 (May 5, 2019)

elmoe said:


> Yep, that's the plan. I should've known better than to give my opinion and share my experience here. As usual the FOTM 50 post HFiers will defend their choice of spending money to the death.



Of course you are free to share your opinions, but it seems to me like you've spent several pages  looking for people to agree with you that RME has a QC issue with this unit because you had a bad experience. Not sure if you own a lot of hardware, but this applies to literally every type of electronic out there.. Audio gear, Computer hardware, appliances, televisions.. why for some reason you feel your bad experience makes a model defective in its entirety I'm not sure, but you definitely are barking up the wrong tree if you're trying to convince many happy customers that an item is potentially faulty from your experience alone.

I bought the Acer Predator x34 ultrawide monitor, first batch, that many people had glaring issues with. At release it was a $2k display.. mine has been perfect and continues to be so. Sometimes you get lucky, other times you dont. 



> Hopefully someone on the fence reading this will spend their money more wisely. *Should've bought American-made*



Then you say nonsense like this and wonder why people have no patience for you *palmface*


----------



## elmoe (May 5, 2019)

Overclocked11 said:


> Of course you are free to share your opinions, but it seems to me like you've spent several pages  looking for people to agree with you that RME has a QC issue with this unit because you had a bad experience. Not sure if you own a lot of hardware, but this applies to literally every type of electronic out there.. Audio gear, Computer hardware, appliances, televisions.. why for some reason you feel your bad experience makes a model defective in its entirety I'm not sure, but you definitely are barking up the wrong tree if you're trying to convince many happy customers that an item is potentially faulty from your experience alone.
> 
> I bought the Acer Predator x34 ultrawide monitor, first batch, that many people had glaring issues with. At release it was a $2k display.. mine has been perfect and continues to be so. Sometimes you get lucky, other times you dont.
> 
> Then you say nonsense like this and wonder why people have no patience for you *palmface*



I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, but when I talk about my unit failing, the first thing I hear back is how reliable and dependable RME is. Clearly, that is not the case for me and a few others. I won't be surprised if I come back to this thread in 5 years and hear about USB interfaces failing past the warranty mark. Time will tell.

I own and have owned my fair share of gear. I don't think I've ever had anything over $50 fail on me within two months, ever. Maybe I'm lucky? Who knows. Apparently you expect a thousand dollar piece of equipment to fail on you because sh!t happens. I don't feel the same way.

Now, as to this particular unit yes, from my experience and that of others who've had the same issue, it seems like a bad design problem. You are free to disagree with this assessment, but that's certainly how it looks. I hope you have better "luck" than me and yours keeps working for many years. Mine died within 2 months and another person had his die twice in a row. That's more than I'm willing to put up with when spending a thousand bucks.

As for buying American-made, that was only half-serious, people on HF are easily unhinged when you are the slightest bit critical of any piece of gear they own. That said, my Benchmark DAC is still going strong after 15 years. Call it nonsense if you will, American audio engineering is where it's at. I've been putting that DAC through its paces on two continents for over a decade, still works just as well as it did the day I bought it. It is what it is.


----------



## Luckbad

elmoe said:


> Looks like I'm not the only one:
> 
> https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28321
> 
> ...



Are you using anything exotic ahead of the ADI-2 DAC like one of the guys you linked? He clearly murdered his USB input with a capacitor. The other one seemed like it could have been the same as your issue, though.

The USB input isn't isolated and the unit uses a floating ground, so I could see how a discharge could kill it.


----------



## elmoe

Luckbad said:


> Are you using anything exotic ahead of the ADI-2 DAC like one of the guys you linked? He clearly murdered his USB input with a capacitor. The other one seemed like it could have been the same as your issue, though.
> 
> The USB input isn't isolated and the unit uses a floating ground, so I could see how a discharge could kill it.



No, nothing like that. It was plugged directly into one of the desktop PC's USB port on the motherboard. Stock cable, stock PSU. Tried plugging in a few other devices after the DAC, all seem to be working without any issue.


----------



## mgh24

I've got one ordered


----------



## MikeW (May 5, 2019)

@ Elmoe 

I do sympathize with your situation. And I did have a defective ADI-2 DAC on my first order, a small screen defect, that RME distributor promptly took care of. I was so happy with the performance of the device though that the small hassle was quickly forgotton. I do find your post to be rather grandstanding. That said, if your not happy, get a refund or sell your refunded unit and move on. Not sure you'll find your desired product by strickly sticking to "American made" products, as even most of them, with exception of few (like Schiit) are designed in USA and made in china. If your refering to Dangerous Music, they do seem to be quite a good outfit. And I hope you find what you are looking for in the Convert-2. Realize, a very different product in form factor and function however. And triple the price. I'd hardly call the RME-ADI-2 "FOTM".. there are plenty of products that pop up here that fit that description, like the THX AAA 789, but the ADI-2.. not so much. Just a very happy (for the most part) customer base.


----------



## elmoe

No worries Mike, I appreciated your input before buying and still do today. Moving on is exactly what I plan to do, I've been reading up about RME issues all day, this seems to be a known issue with a few more people than previously reported and the USB implementation is not sound in this unit.

I do think this DAC is FOTY if not FOTM, it hasn't been around long enough to be anything but just yet. Doesn't mean it won't, I just won't be taking the chance again. There's plenty of bigger badder players out there.


----------



## butch111

Hrhr....i am sure rme build more dac amps than nearly all high end dac/amp-manufacturer together...so that you can read about a few faulty dacs from them is pure mathematics(thats something that some people try to teach you years ago....maybe)

your hate speech about rme because a defect usb port (maybe your fault!) is very silly.

rme gives us a toy we have to be only thankfuly for.

believe, you are not the first man on earth with a case of warranty. your first world problems for getting in rage shame me a little bit.


----------



## Rattle

As someone who is intrigued by this DAC and discussion as a US resident 6 months is BS for warranty on a $1k dac. I wouldn't buy one just for that.


----------



## Luckbad

Check with Synthax (US Distributor). I believe it's 2 years.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

elmoe said:


> Hopefully someone on the fence reading this will spend their money more wisely. Should've bought American-made



Watch out for those American-made things. Based on this, you have to heat those Schiit USBs with a hairdrier to make them work. (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ing-recognized-anymore-by-windows.5943/page-3) I am sure I could dig up another 50 cases of USB issues with American-made products. Should we then consider that all American-models are not worth purchasing?

Let me also give you my latest issue with an American company. Grace Design. I love my m900, but recently I plugged in the cheap feeling adapter and it broke (pictures on the m9xx thread). Yes, it's made in China, but it's part of the standard kit that comes with the American made m900. So I contacted support. They said that I can buy another for $35, even though I explained to them that I did nothing wrong, hit the outlet at 1mm off a perfect 90 degree angle. The adapter always felt cheap and the USB port is loose. So should I buy another one for $35 - yes $35 for a cheap thing that breaks with 6 months of normal use? They recommend it, because it's been specially selected for low-noise, they say. Does my warranty cover this? Apparently not. 

So, my point is, there are experiences and experiences. Relax and have a measured approach to your conclusions. Just go back to your original post and realize why you caused such reactions. If you would have posted along the lines of this happened, has it happened to others, seems to me that this is an issue... fine. But no, you came in on a warpath declaring the RME ADI-2 DAC worthless FOTM.


----------



## elmoe (May 6, 2019)

CaptainFantastic said:


> Watch out for those American-made things. Based on this, you have to heat those Schiit USBs with a hairdrier to make them work. (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ing-recognized-anymore-by-windows.5943/page-3) I am sure I could dig up another 50 cases of USB issues with American-made products. Should we then consider that all American-models are not worth purchasing?
> 
> Let me also give you my latest issue with an American company. Grace Design. I love my m900, but recently I plugged in the cheap feeling adapter and it broke (pictures on the m9xx thread). Yes, it's made in China, but it's part of the standard kit that comes with the American made m900. So I contacted support. They said that I can buy another for $35, even though I explained to them that I did nothing wrong, hit the outlet at 1mm off a perfect 90 degree angle. The adapter always felt cheap and the USB port is loose. So should I buy another one for $35 - yes $35 for a cheap thing that breaks with 6 months of normal use? They recommend it, because it's been specially selected for low-noise, they say. Does my warranty cover this? Apparently not.
> 
> So, my point is, there are experiences and experiences. Relax and have a measured approach to your conclusions. Just go back to your original post and realize why you caused such reactions. If you would have posted along the lines of this happened, has it happened to others, seems to me that this is an issue... fine. But no, you came in on a warpath declaring the RME ADI-2 DAC worthless FOTM.



Perhaps you misinterpreted the intent here? I am not on "the warpath" as you put it, just disappointed (for good reason) about a device from a company that claims their USB implementation is outstanding, while it has design issues. What this comes down to is whether or not you believe the USB implementation on the ADI-2 DAC has a design issue. I believe it does, you disagree, and that's perfectly fine. I have $10 USB devices that have better surge protection than the RME that costs 100 times more, to me this is an issue that needs to be known by people who purchased or are thinking or purchasing the unit. If you'd rather stick your head in the sand and cross your fingers your unit keeps working as it has, that's also perfectly fine.

Do you know of any company that recommends turning off both the computer and the device itself before plugging in *a USB cable*? It's pretty ridiculous!

FOTM does not mean anything more than FOTM, why jump to the conclusion that it means the device is worthless, or even bad? There have been plenty of FOTM devices and headphones that became, after a few years, real contenders in their price ranges. At the end of the day, the DAC sounds great, the functionality it offers for the money is awesome, and sound quality/measurement wise, it competes with DACs several times its price. However, the fact that it was designed in a way where you can fry the USB by plugging in a "hot" cable is definitely not something I would expect from a device in that price range. The only negative thing about a FOTM device is that it hasn't been around long enough to prove its reliability. Some make it, and stick around, some don't.

If you need to defend RME to the death on this, so be it, and if you think I am overreacting in writing off the device because it seems to me it has a major design flaw, all is well. I don't control your wallet or bank account, and you are still free to spend your money however you desire. You're comparing apples and oranges though, when you speak of the issue you had with the Grace m900 and this particular issue. You actually physically broke (an albeit cheap) adapter. You knew the adapter was cheap when you purchased the amp, it makes sense that your warranty would not cover physical damage. When I bought the RME, one of its strongest selling point was an innovative USB implementation. The issue I am having is not related to me physically breaking anything or mistreating the device in anyway (whether you choose to believe otherwise is your problem), it comes from normal day-to-day operation of the device. If you're perfectly fine knowing this, and would be willing to buy the unit again, more power to you! Personally, had I known this was an issue, I would not have purchased the unit. In fact, I purchased it partly because the USB implementation was highly acclaimed.

At the end of the day, it's not the end of the world, and I will either sell the replacement or get a refund. No biggie. This is however, still a forum where we discuss and give opinion on gear we purchase, and not everything said needs to be positive when it isn't warranted. Prior to this issue happening, I had nothing but good things to say about this unit, and still do concerning everything other than the USB implementation, and (in my opinion) the headphone amp, which is subpar. That being said, I did not buy it for its headphone amp's quality, and so haven't even mentioned that until now. The issue here is not that "I am on the warpath", but that some people need reassurance that they spent their money wisely when buying this unit. It could be that this is the case, it could also be that your USB ports will fail after 2 years, who knows. In any case, my criticizing a unit's design is not a personal attack towards you or anyone else. I came in this thread to tell about my experience, hoping to get a few troubleshooting hints (which some people gave without getting butthurt), research the issue some more, and draw reasonable conclusions from all of it. I posted pretty much the same thing in other HiFi forums, where the responses I got were along the lines of "It looks like a few different people have had the same issue. It seems the RME USB implementation may have design issues." without anyone getting their feelings hurt as if I insulted their wives. They took it for what it's worth, and wished me luck with the RMA and my next purchase.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

elmoe said:


> You're comparing apples and oranges though, when you speak of the issue you had with the Grace m900 and this particular issue. You actually physically broke (an albeit cheap) adapter. You knew the adapter was cheap when you purchased the amp, it makes sense that your warranty would not cover physical damage. When I bought the RME, one of its strongest selling point was an innovative USB implementation. The issue I am having is not related to me physically breaking anything or mistreating the device in anyway (whether you choose to believe otherwise is your problem), it comes from normal day-to-day operation of the device. If you're perfectly fine knowing this, and would be willing to buy the unit again, more power to you! Personally, had I known this was an issue, I would not have purchased the unit. In fact, I purchased it partly because the USB implementation was highly acclaimed.



The m900 is 550 EUR. I did not expect a cheap adapter. I said it was my observation that it was cheap, this after the purchase. American-made perfection.


----------



## elmoe

CaptainFantastic said:


> The m900 is 550 EUR. I did not expect a cheap adapter. I said it was my observation that it was cheap, this after the purchase. American-made perfection.



You certainly had the option to send it all back the day you received it and saw it was cheap and made in China no?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

elmoe said:


> You certainly had the option to send it all back the day you received it and saw it was cheap and made in China no?



I don't have an automatic "if it's made in China it must be bad" attitude. In fact, since a respected American company decided to use it, I gave it a shot. Cheap as it felt, the "send it back" threshold was not crossed until it actually broke months later.

Clearly you get the point. You implied earlier, twice, that American companies have better QC than German ones. Here is a respected American company with wanting QC, based on my experience. Now I invite you to the m9xx thread. Did I come in guns blazing as you did here? You may learn if you wish, or stay the way you are.


----------



## elmoe

CaptainFantastic said:


> I don't have an automatic "if it's made in China it must be bad" attitude. In fact, since a respected American company decided to use it, I gave it a shot. Cheap as it felt, the "send it back" threshold was not crossed until it actually broke months later.
> 
> Clearly you get the point. You implied earlier, twice, that American companies have better QC than German ones. Here is a respected American company with wanting QC, based on my experience. Now I invite you to the m9xx thread. Did I come in guns blazing as you did here? You may learn if you wish, or stay the way you are.



No, I don't get the point. You saw it was cheap, and decided to use it anyway, knowing it could very well break. It's a different situation altogether.

Considering how you worded your experience with Grace support, I wouldn't say you didn't come in "guns blazing", although it certainly seems like you don't have a legitimate reason to. I didn't imply American companies have better QC than German ones, I took a quick stab at RME in a light hearted way and you and the other German guy blew it completely out of proportion, which I had an inkling would happen  Add to this the condescending "I am here to teach you a lesson" quibble above and we have a perfect example of fanboi-ism.

By the way, I am European and own/have owned several pairs of Sennheisers which I have nothing but praise for.

Let's move on now, this is turning sour, we're derailing the thread, and you're clearly getting your feelings hurt. I'm sure German engineering will survive my criticism.


----------



## butch111

dont feed the troll anymore


----------



## Dogmatrix

butch111 said:


> dont feed the troll anymore


Indeed , I don't think we are going anywhere new or constructive following the present line


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Quick question: if using an amp with the ADI-2 (line out RCA), and Auto Ref Level is set to "OFF", what is the best Ref Level and why? Mine defaulted to +1 dBu and VOL is at -12.5 dB. Are these the default settings for a reason or are they not even the default and I changed them without noticing?


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Don't know about default, but as long as you are not clipping. I use mine with the Auto Ref ON and -5db. If using EQ or other things, you might clip.


----------



## Dogmatrix

CaptainFantastic said:


> Quick question: if using an amp with the ADI-2 (line out RCA), and Auto Ref Level is set to "OFF", what is the best Ref Level and why? Mine defaulted to +1 dBu and VOL is at -12.5 dB. Are these the default settings for a reason or are they not even the default and I changed them without noticing?


All depends on what input voltage your amp can handle . I run my Violectric at +19 balanced because it is rated for pro line level . Generally you want to run as high as possible to give the best s/n ratio


----------



## Anaz (May 8, 2019)

CaptainFantastic said:


> Quick question: if using an amp with the ADI-2 (line out RCA), and Auto Ref Level is set to "OFF", what is the best Ref Level and why? Mine defaulted to +1 dBu and VOL is at -12.5 dB. Are these the default settings for a reason or are they not even the default and I changed them without noticing?



Per section 19.3 of the ADI-2 User's Guide, the effective SNR at the output is max SNR dB minus the value of the volume pot dB -- e.g. in your case, SNR = 114 dB - 12.5 dB = 101.5 dB. ...Which is still a good SNR and the drop from the theoretical max of 117 dB on XLR may not even be audible in normal listening.

Personally, I set the ADI-2's volume to 0 dB* and use a Line Out dB setting that gives me good travel on my amp's volume pot.



WildStyle-R11 said:


> Don't know about default, but as long as you are not clipping. I use mine with the Auto Ref ON and -5db. If using EQ or other things, you might clip.



* Good advice. When using EQ I set the ADI-2's volume to -0.5 dB or -1 dB.

Edit: fixed SNR values


----------



## Anaz

Dogmatrix said:


> All depends on what input voltage your amp can handle . I run my Violectric at +19 balanced because it is rated for pro line level . Generally you want to run as high as possible to give the best s/n ratio



I've heard that too. Do you use pre gain on your Violectric and if so what setting?


----------



## Dogmatrix

Anaz said:


> I've heard that too. Do you use pre gain on your Violectric and if so what setting?


Yes pre gain is -6 just to move my preferred volume level to 12 0'clock , on zero only 1/4 range is useable . That is running my HE500 other phones vary slightly .
For reference a domestic line level of 2volts rms is +9 dbu , on my pro that is +13 dbu level and -4 dbu volume . I run my tube amps at that level .


----------



## Anaz

Dogmatrix said:


> Yes pre gain is -6 just to move my preferred volume level to 12 0'clock , on zero only 1/4 range is useable . That is running my HE500 other phones vary slightly .
> For reference a domestic line level of 2volts rms is +9 dbu , on my pro that is +13 dbu level and -4 dbu volume . I run my tube amps at that level .



Very informative.  ...I'm outputting +13 dB XLR to a V281 with a pre gain of -12 dB and I generally have the V281's volume pot between 8:00 to 10:00 depending on headphone (typically Focals using balanced cable) and music.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Anaz said:


> Very informative.  ...I'm outputting +13 dB XLR to a V281 with a pre gain of -12 dB and I generally have the V281's volume pot between 8:00 to 10:00 depending on headphone (typically Focals using balanced cable) and music.


I tried setting my v280 at -12 dB input gain and started upping the output volume and the ADI-2 but I was getting clipping due to my EQ settings so I'm back to -12 on the ADI and 0 dB gain on the amp.


----------



## Anaz (May 10, 2019)

Relaxasaurus said:


> I tried setting my v280 at -12 dB input gain and started upping the output volume and the ADI-2 but I was getting clipping due to my EQ settings so I'm back to -12 on the ADI and 0 dB gain on the amp.



What’s your Line Out : Ref Level setting? e.g. my ADI-2’s Ref Level is +7 dB (actual XLR output is 6 dB higher than the value of the setting) and volume is at 0 dB


----------



## Litlgi74

I'm glad to see there are a few users on this form using the RME ADI-2 DAC along with the Violectric V281...

I too am considering the V281 to complement the RME... But didn't seem any reviews or opinions.

Hoping someone might be willing to give the pros and cons of this combo...  I should have a new pair of Abyss AB-1266 next week... andan don't think the ADI-2 DAC on its own can power such headphones.

Thanks


----------



## Anaz

Litlgi74 said:


> I'm glad to see there are a few users on this form using the RME ADI-2 DAC along with the Violectric V281...
> 
> I too am considering the V281 to complement the RME... But didn't seem any reviews or opinions.
> 
> ...



Try Hi-power mode on the the ADI-2 and let us know how the Abyss-1266 sounds. (IMO the ADI-2 DAC's amp struggles with the low frequency impedance spike on Focal headphones - I hear more bass via the V281). Some pros and one con of the ADI-2 DAC to V281 pairing:

Pros:

Good synergy - the neutrality and detail of the ADI-2 DAC is what the V281 needs
Power of the V281 and the ability to go simple and use the ADI-2's built-in amp for easier to drive headphones and IEMs
Ability to connect via XLR or RCA and tweak ADI-2 Ref Line output level and V281 pre-gain to allow you to set a desired "normal" volume pot position on the V281
the volume pot on the ADI-2 can be used for minor sound level adjustments without audible impact on sound
you have the option of connecting a second device to the ADI-2 (all equipment should be connected to a common ground though)

DSP functions on the ADI-2 have no perceptible impact on sound quality
ADI-2 native DSD conversion to line out (DSD will be converted first to PCM if using the ADI-2's headphone jack) 
Cons:

The V281 takes up a lot of desk space
The ADI-2 is wider than the V281 so you can't stack it on the V281


----------



## Phoniac

Anaz said:


> Try Hi-power mode on the the ADI-2 and let us know how the Abyss-1266 sounds. (IMO the ADI-2 DAC's amp struggles with the low frequency impedance spike on Focal headphones - I hear more bass via the V281).



You got it the wrong way round. The ADI has 0.1 Ohms output impedance and doesn't care about the Focal's impedance swing at all. If you hear more bass with the Violectric then it must have a higher output impedance to generate a slight bass boost. I doubt this is the case as it would require more than 30 Ohms output impedance to become audible.


----------



## Anaz (May 12, 2019)

Phoniac said:


> You got it the wrong way round. The ADI has 0.1 Ohms output impedance and doesn't care about the Focal's impedance swing at all. If you hear more bass with the Violectric then it must have a higher output impedance to generate a slight bass boost. I doubt this is the case as it would require more than 30 Ohms output impedance to become audible.



The V281 has an output impedance similar to that the ADI-2 (0.1 ohm SE and 0.2 ohm balanced) so its not that. I still think the ADI-2 on *low power *can't handle the power requirements of the Focal Clear and here's my reasoning:

The focal Clear's impedance spikes up to 322 ohms to 460 ohms (depending on which measurement you believe) at 50 Hz to 60 Hz
I haven't seen a measurement for the Clear's sensitivity across the frequency range, but if it drops to a plausible 100 dB at 50-60 Hz given the impedance spike, then the Clear needs 1.79 Vrms to play a 50-60Hz tone at 110 dB SPL
Low power mode on the ADI-2 is given as +7 dBu which is 1.73 Vrms - (1.73 V is also stated in the spec sheet)
Hi-Power mode is given as +22 dBu which is 9.75 Vrms and which should be more than sufficient
If my reasoning is flawed let me know. Thanks!

If it's useful to anyone, here's some data for Hi-Power mode (take the trendlines with a grain of salt):


----------



## Phoniac

You have both the ADI and the Violectric. Why are you not just trying/doing it? Connect the Focal's to the ADI in Low Power mode, put on some bass heavy music that includes 50 to 60 Hz, then cramp up the volume until your ears bleed - while looking at the level meter below the Analyser. If you can stand it while reaching full level / 0 dBFS on the meters then you need High Power mode. Else not. It's that simple to me...no need to calculate anything...


----------



## mixman

What are some other great amp pairings with the ADI?


----------



## Relaxasaurus

So my ADI-2's USB port stopped working today (similar to that other guy's) and a sense of dread came over me, especially since I've just purchased the device about a month ago. Tried optical, it worked. Went back to USB and no dice. Tried exclusive mode in Tidal, then also setting it as the default device in Windows' control panel. Same result. YouTube still had no audio and the graphic EQ was lifeless even though Windows said it was sending an audio signal through:


 

So I ran Windows Update and restarted my computer. Then I unplugged the ADI's power supply and waited until the blue light went dark. I pressed the power button on the unit itself to make sure there was no juice. Plugged it back in, turned it on, pressed play in Tidal and EUREKA! We have motion on the EQ. Sound? Works!

I have a sinking suspicion the issue is with the unit itself vs my computer as I have other USB audio devices that this doesn't happen to. If it happens to you try unplugging the ADI, wait 30 seconds then try again.


----------



## Phoniac

Relaxasaurus said:


> So my ADI-2's USB port stopped working today (similar to that other guy's)



Not at all. The ADI would no longer be shown in the Device Manager then. The fact it was still there points to a simple playback hickup. Maybe you get another chance to figure that one out.


----------



## bidn (May 17, 2019)

Hi,

the ADI 2 DAC (apparently in power, high gain mode at +4 V, ie. the measurements might have even be better in normal, low gain mode) was retested on the audio science site with the newest Audio Precision analyzer:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-rme-adi-2-dac-and-headphone-amp.7546/

What is nice about this is that it allows to compare its SINAD value to many other devices measured with this AP analyzer:

- Its DAC measured at the XLR out is among the best though not the best of those measurements.  The Chord Qutest has a better SINAD, I guess this would confirm Tekster's findings in this thread that his Chord Hugo 2 (same or better DAC as Qutest?) has a better a SQ than his RME ADI 2.

- Its DAC measured at the IEM output has even better measurements, but I didn't see a comparative SINAD value for that.

- Its amp has the best SQ measurements of those tested, incl. the THX AAA 789 ( which is still very close) and a Lake People (= Vioelectric) amp . Unfortunately they aren't as many amp measurements as DACs' on this site.
This confirms the findings of the Head-Fi members of this thread that external amps connected to their ADI-2 have a lower SQ than the SQ of the mere output of the integrated amp of their ADI-2 (I have the same experience when connecting external amps to my RME ADI-2 Pro).

I wish they would test with the same Audio Precision analyzer the SQ of the balanced  (with its 2 DAC chips, one per channel) output of the RME ADI-2 PRO FS versus its single-ended output (using a single DAC chip like the ADI-2).

All the best,
bidn


----------



## Baten

bidn said:


> - Its amp has the best SQ measurements of those tested, incl. the THX AAA 789 ( which is still very close) and a Lake People (= Vioelectric) amp . Unfortunately they aren't as many amp measurements as DACs' on this site.



Aren't you looking at the 50mV table here? This is performance at lower output like for sensitive IEMs. Also, 91/90 dB is practically the same performance anyway.

The THX still has more power since it has 3 gain switches in single ended, and quadruple the power in balanced. So no I would not say the ADI-2 amp is better than the THX AAA, although one could say the internal amp would suffice for most users.


----------



## mixman

bidn said:


> Hi,
> 
> the ADI 2 DAC (apparently in power, high gain mode at +4 V, ie. the measurements should have even be better in normal, low gain mode) was retested on the audio science site with the newest Audio Precision analyzer:
> 
> ...


I find that the THX AAA and the RME amp to be on about the same level in SQ. They do sound different, but I cannot say one is clearly better than the other. I want to buy an amp that is better in sound and output, preferably balanced too. Seems like the Monoprice Liquid Platinum is the minimum that fits that criteria. Other than that I cannot think of another amp that meets those different criteria until you hit about the $1,500 range like the Soundaware P1, Audiogd Master 9 and maybe a GSX mini.


----------



## protoss

mixman said:


> I find that the THX AAA and the RME amp to be on about the same level in SQ. They do sound different, but I cannot say one is clearly better than the other. I want to buy an amp that is better in sound and output, preferably balanced too. Seems like the Monoprice Liquid Platinum is the minimum that fits that criteria. Other than that I cannot think of another amp that meets those different criteria until you hit about the $1,500 range like the Soundaware P1, Audiogd Master 9 and maybe a GSX mini.



If you have to pick one. Whats better from the amp section. The THX or RME?


----------



## mixman

I generally use the THX. It has a more tubelike sound. It has better depth and a less analytical sound. The RME is a little brighter, I use that when I want a brighter more analytical sound.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Funny how differently people hear things. Some reviews say the THX is transparent and analytical, certainly not warm.


----------



## Baten

CaptainFantastic said:


> Funny how differently people hear things. Some reviews say the THX is transparent and analytical, certainly not warm.


I think honestly it is the lack of distortion that makes it warm/laid-back/unfatiguing. And it's harmonic distortion that makes other devices sound "lively" and "fatiguing".

On the other hand I'm having a hard time believing someone could listen blind to volume matched RME and THX and differentiate. Their performance should be the same!

but what do I know..


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Since we're on the subject of RME's amp, I posted my thoughts on it vs using a separate V280's amp here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vio...iscussion-thread.803271/page-21#post-14942138

TLDR; RME's amp is shockingly good but there are gains (noticeably in the low end) to be had if you want to step up to a nice amp.


----------



## VRacer-111

RME is very good for many headphones, but certain ones just don't sync well with it... Fostex biodynas being one of them. My STAX L300 Limited will outdo the Fostex TH-X00 Purpleheart in subbass impact when both using the RME ADI-2 (as preamp for my estat rig). The TH-X00 Purpleheart on Gustard X20U DAC and H10 amp is a whole different ballgame...


----------



## mixman

CaptainFantastic said:


> Funny how differently people hear things. Some reviews say the THX is transparent and analytical, certainly not warm.



 Didn’t say the THX was necessarily warm but just warmer sounding than the RME. Overall it is probably pretty neutral with the RME being a touch bright. Now bright was the Topping Dx7s. That was just bright.


----------



## mixman

Baten said:


> I think honestly it is the lack of distortion that makes it warm/laid-back/unfatiguing. And it's harmonic distortion that makes other devices sound "lively" and "fatiguing".
> 
> On the other hand I'm having a hard time believing someone could listen blind to volume matched RME and THX and differentiate. Their performance should be the same!
> 
> but what do I know..


Why, you don’t think amps can sound different?


----------



## butch111

Monoprice Liquid Platinum or THX? hmmmmm............opinions please!


----------



## Baten

mixman said:


> Why, you don’t think amps can sound different?


Oh but I do. But both the RME and THX amp stage are really quite similar.


----------



## Baten

butch111 said:


> Monoprice Liquid Platinum or THX? hmmmmm............opinions please!


Imo? THX =p hate background hum on tube amps but with higher impedance cans that's not a big problem.


----------



## mixman

butch111 said:


> Monoprice Liquid Platinum or THX? hmmmmm............opinions please!


I know MikeW here likes the LP, and says it’s a step up from the RME. Don’t know if he has had a THX though. I would go with  the LP. In all honesty the THX is nothing that special.


----------



## Baten

mixman said:


> In all honesty the THX is nothing that special.



Heresy! It is literally the second coming of Jesus

Lol in all honesty it's funny to see such varying opinions.


----------



## Aliv3

Does anyone here have the Sony TA-ZH1ES that can compare with the RME ADI-2?


----------



## tekkster

the SIglent oscillator just arrived, so connected to the ADI-2 real quick for a dirt simple (and likely not yet accurate) slew rate test.

Square sine for RME ADI-2.  slew rate seems very fast, but big overshoot before balancing out, so ringing seems severe.

Still figuring out how to adjust everything on the siglent, as I want to be able to show actual slew rate in mV/uS

Don't take it seriously, please, as I'm not sure what I'm doing yet.  

Really just having fun re-learning all this stuff.  Amazing what you forget 35 years after highschool....


----------



## tekkster

I need a better source file.  Pulling the wav file into Audacity and zooming in, it appears the original wav file has some ringing in it to begin with, so the results are not to be trusted as is.


----------



## Deftone

Sold and returned most of my gear and now left with HD660S my favourite headphone but i will order ADI2 Dac This has everything in one box and does everything and perfectly at that, really hoping it will be endgame pairing. Honestly getting bored of buying/researching so much equipment at this point its taking the fun out of listening to music.


----------



## Overclocked11

Deftone said:


> Honestly getting bored of buying/researching so much equipment at this point its taking the fun out of listening to music.



If there is one thing I could say about the ADI-2 is that it puts the fun in listening.. 
I sat and listened last night for a good 3 hours.. it makes everything sound clear and alive. I've been enjoying it very much.


----------



## Deftone

Overclocked11 said:


> If there is one thing I could say about the ADI-2 is that it puts the fun in listening..
> I sat and listened last night for a good 3 hours.. it makes everything sound clear and alive. I've been enjoying it very much.



That's what I want, something that measures very well especially under headphone load (a lot of stuff doesn't) flat balanced sound with no added bass or treble just my headphones louder and clearer. Getting tired of all this snake oil and magic, I need an expertly designed and reliable amp/dac and then I'm done. 

Listening to my £40 iems from my phone tonight made me realise I haven't lost my love for the music. I Iook forward to discovering and buying new music again.


----------



## Hellraiser86

Aliv3 said:


> Does anyone here have the Sony TA-ZH1ES that can compare with the RME ADI-2?


I have one 
In short: These two are very different in sound. Just different, not one being better or worse than the other. If you want more details just PM me.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Hi there!

In need of some help 

I ordered the ADI 2 DAC tonight as I tried it a few weeks back and it was love on first sight 

I just wanted to ask if it is possible to connect it to my iPhone? Maybe via optical into the Apple adapter something of the sort

I tried googling it but found no nothing helpful, thanks in advance!


----------



## captblaze

mvvRAZ said:


> Hi there!
> 
> In need of some help
> 
> ...



iPhone X>Lighting CCK>USB Cable>ADI2 DAC


----------



## Overclocked11

mvvRAZ said:


> Hi there!
> 
> In need of some help
> 
> ...



Which iPhone? You should be able to use a lightning to USB female adapter, and then usb A to usb B cable.. at least you can connect a recent Android device this way (or just Usb C to USB B adapter), don't think there'd be anything preventing an iPhone from outputting also.


----------



## Khazit

I pulled the trigger on the ADI-2 DAC and I absolutely love it so far! I am using it as both a DAC and AMP right now and I am curious if I should have Hi-Power constantly on or if I should just switch on Auto Ref Level or just leave it as Lo-Power? I am currently pairing it with DT 1990's


----------



## mvvRAZ

Thanks for the replies, got it figured out!

My RME should be arriving in a few days, proper hyped


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@mvvRAZ You should be, it's an amazing piece of gear.


----------



## mvvRAZ

CaptainFantastic said:


> @mvvRAZ You should be, it's an amazing piece of gear.


I first had the chance to listen to it a few weeks ago using my Andromeda S, and for two hours I did not move, completely perplexed by what was happening


----------



## captblaze

mvvRAZ said:


> I first had the chance to listen to it a few weeks ago using my Andromeda S, and for two hours I did not move, completely perplexed by what was happening



then you should be pleased once you learn how to properly exploit all the features in this DAC. 

aside from an astonishing set of Chi-fi IEMs the RME ADI2-DAC is one of my better recent acquisitions (ie. no plans on selling)


----------



## butch111

Yes. I am also happy with it. One reason -. the internal equalizer makes my harsh rha in ear sounds very smooth.
for me the equalizer works better than softwaresolution i have tested.


----------



## mvvRAZ

captblaze said:


> then you should be pleased once you learn how to properly exploit all the features in this DAC.
> 
> aside from an astonishing set of Chi-fi IEMs the RME ADI2-DAC is one of my better recent acquisitions (ie. no plans on selling)


Which IEMs did you get?

I’m planning on using it with my Andro and my A18 for the most part, never got into the ChiFi hype myself


----------



## captblaze (May 21, 2019)

mvvRAZ said:


> Which IEMs did you get?
> 
> I’m planning on using it with my Andro and my A18 for the most part, never got into the ChiFi hype myself



I picked up a set of KZ ZS10 Pro for $36 on Amazon (lightning deal + $5 coupon). they match the sound I am looking for. nice balanced sound and more detail than you would expect from a $49 IEM. are they perfect... No, but they hit a level of sound some higher priced gear can't IMO


----------



## TylersEclectic

Khazit said:


> I pulled the trigger on the ADI-2 DAC and I absolutely love it so far! I am using it as both a DAC and AMP right now and I am curious if I should have Hi-Power constantly on or if I should just switch on Auto Ref Level or just leave it as Lo-Power? I am currently pairing it with DT 1990's


Play around with it and go with what you like best, no wrong answer when you do that. Also revisit this practice every couple weeks, to refine it =)

Also if you get other headphones do the same thing, this applies to amps as well. 

Have fun and enjoy the ride!


----------



## talmadge

Will the ADI-2 Dac control the volume on the xlr and rca simultaneously? For example if I have my powered monitors connected from the balanced output and the sub with the rca output will it control the volume for both at the same time?


----------



## occamsrazor

talmadge said:


> Will the ADI-2 Dac control the volume on the xlr and rca simultaneously? For example if I have my powered monitors connected from the balanced output and the sub with the rca output will it control the volume for both at the same time?



Yes... that’s exactly what I am doing (see my signature)


----------



## talmadge

Great thanks


----------



## Megalith (May 22, 2019)

I'm experiencing the following with the unit in Class Compliant (driverless) mode:

Foobar WASAPI Push plays fine, but Event gives me distorted audio.
MPC-BE MPC Audio Renderer WASAPI Shared plays fine, but Event makes the video lag.

Anyone else?


----------



## Phoniac

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-thread.868015/page-69#post-14819442


----------



## Relaxasaurus

At the risk of getting tarred & feathered in this thread would these USB issues be rectified if RME used an XMOS controller vs their homegrown one? What we be lost?


----------



## zeroselect

Megalith said:


> I'm experiencing the following with the unit in Class Compliant (driverless) mode:
> 
> Foobar WASAPI Push plays fine, but Event gives me distorted audio.
> MPC-BE MPC Audio Renderer WASAPI Shared plays fine, but Event makes the video lag.
> ...


I had the same problem as well. I went on using it on ASIO.


----------



## MikeW

Relaxasaurus said:


> At the risk of getting tarred & feathered in this thread would these USB issues be rectified if RME used an XMOS controller vs their homegrown one? What we be lost?



Considering the measured performance of their proprietary solution and subjective performance, I’d be quite surprised if the xmos is anything but a down grade. Not sure it’s a worthwhile compromise for a few edge cases.


----------



## Andrewteee

I have a new RME ADI-2 DAC and I'm just starting to figure it out. One thing though - the sample rate is not automatically setting based on the source. I have to manually change it in MIDI on the Mac. Based on what I'm reading in the manual it should adapt automatically to the source sample rate. Any advice?

I'm using it with an iMac through Roon, Tidal and Qobuz with a Ruper Neve RNHP headphone amp. TIA!


----------



## TylersEclectic

I've noticed in Qobuz it doesn't always change for some songs?  Not sure why but it does seem random... It might be Qobuz not sending the right signal maybe? I canceled by Tidal sub, after getting Qobuz Studio so I can't compare there. But I have moved across a range of different tracks with the same, to higher/lower sample rates and some would change to what was listed and others would not... it was consistent with all the tracks it wouldn't Sample correctly though if that helps, also was consistent with tracks that were accurate.  Odd bug...


----------



## Megalith

Something else I've noticed is that under ASIO/MADIface, the Netflix Windows 10 app won't play (there's an error message) unless you have the sampling rate set to 44,110 Hz. I thought Netflix audio streams were 48,000 Hz, though...


----------



## lithrai (May 23, 2019)

Andrewteee said:


> I have a new RME ADI-2 DAC and I'm just starting to figure it out. One thing though - the sample rate is not automatically setting based on the source. I have to manually change it in MIDI on the Mac. Based on what I'm reading in the manual it should adapt automatically to the source sample rate. Any advice?
> 
> I'm using it with an iMac through Roon, Tidal and Qobuz with a Ruper Neve RNHP headphone amp. TIA!


It's swithing automatically if you completely remove RME driver. But you need newest firmware I think.

EDIT: I just realized you are on Mac, so don't know if it works on Mac too.


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Megalith said:


> Something else I've noticed is that under ASIO/MADIface, the Netflix Windows 10 app won't play (there's an error message) unless you have the sampling rate set to 44,110 Hz. I thought Netflix audio streams were 48,000 Hz, though...



If I set it myself higher than 192Khz on windows a lot of apps have issues with that and they don't work. If you set it even higher than that, forgot at what point, but it disappears from sound devices, so most of those bitrates seem good for only apps who can use them and not much else.


----------



## talmadge

Andrewteee said:


> I have a new RME ADI-2 DAC and I'm just starting to figure it out. One thing though - the sample rate is not automatically setting based on the source. I have to manually change it in MIDI on the Mac. Based on what I'm reading in the manual it should adapt automatically to the source sample rate. Any advice?
> 
> I'm using it with an iMac through Roon, Tidal and Qobuz with a Ruper Neve RNHP headphone amp. TIA!



I use an iMac with Roon qobuz and tidal also. Mine switches automatically. Not sure how I have midi setup will have to look.


----------



## Andrewteee

I updated the firmware but the DAC was already up to date. I've posted this question on the RME forum.


----------



## Deftone (May 23, 2019)

The RME dac is amazing value for money and it drives any headphones i have used on it well unlike some of the comments say it doesnt here, trying other stuff in the store i realised the amazing synergy of HD800S and HDV820 i had to take it home. This it for me, i did want to go for a HugoTT2 but no need now im really happy with it. Anyone with the ADI2DAC should be happy they made a great choice, sound quality and amount of features its very good value for money.

Happy listening


----------



## Litlgi74

Would anyone care to help me get my RME and new Cayin iha-6 headphone amp setup properly?

I'm really not sure how to... and to be honest... I'm quite confused about what the reference levels should be going to the amp

I'm not sure if it's the proper way... But I would like to set the amp volume to something permanent while using the volume knob and remote of the rme to control the volume level of the music.

These are the specs of a headphone amp...
Power Rating Single-Ended Headphone:
1100mW+1100mW (High Current, RMS,RL=32Ω)
2200mW+2200mW (Low Current, RMS,RL=32Ω)
Balanced Headphone:
5000mW+5000mW (High Current, RMS,RL=32Ω)
7000mW+7000mW (Low Current, RMS,RL=32Ω)
Frequency Respond 10Hz~80kHz (-0.5dB)
THD+N ≤0.02%(1kHz, RL=32Ω)
S/N Single-Ended Headphone : ≥105dB (A weighted)
Balanced Headphone : ≥110dB (A weighted)
Input Sensitivity 620mV（High Current, High Gain）
Headphone Output 6.35mm TRS x 2
Dual 3pins XLR (Balanced)
4 pins XLR (Balanced)
Max. Power
Consumption
30W

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## technobear

Litlgi74 said:


> Would anyone care to help me get my RME and new Cayin iha-6 headphone amp setup properly?
> 
> I'm really not sure how to... and to be honest... I'm quite confused about what the reference levels should be going to the amp
> 
> ...


It's an RTFM problem.

Page 60. Section 31.13. Second paragraph.


----------



## Litlgi74 (May 24, 2019)

technobear said:


> It's an RTFM problem.
> 
> Page 60. Section 31.13. Second paragraph.


Forgive my ignorance... But I did read the manual.

The manual says... With Hi-Fi the setting +7 dBu (equals +4.78 dBV or 1.73 V RMS) is recommended. But the amp's Input Sensitivity is 620mV (equaling -1.93dBu or 4.15 dBV)... At least according to this calculation.

So I'm not sure what you think or to do.

If those calculations are correct.. (which they may not be) What would I set the volume knob on the amp in order to solely control the volume via the rme and its remote?


----------



## Dogmatrix (May 24, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> Forgive my ignorance... But I did read the manual.
> 
> The manual says... With Hi-Fi the setting +7 dBu (equals +4.78 dBV or 1.73 V RMS) is recommended. But the amp's Input Sensitivity is 620mV (equaling -1.93dBu or 4.15 dBV)... At least according to this calculation.
> 
> ...



There is no rule because it depends on the sensitivity of the device being driven and the level of V RMS the amp can cope with before it starts clipping from overload . My best advice would be to set the RME to +7 dBu volume 0 then adjust your amp to roughly your preferred volume level with the headphones you intend to use . After you have done that you could safely adjust volume using the RME volume by remote . Bare in mind if you go down too far you will lose resolution and up too far gain distortion . Should be ok , just adjust the amp volume so the RME volume is within a relatively narrow range
I believe the 620mV refers to the minimum input required for the amp to produce full output at maximum volume


----------



## sodesuka

This DAC's ability to laser dissect through complex passages and bad recordings/source sometimes with compression artifacts and present it in an uniquely pleasing way really is something else.


----------



## Megalith

From the manual:


> Doesn't a low hardware reference level cause a significant increase in noise?
> 
> Usually yes - but not with the ADI-2 DAC. Switching the reference levels is done in the analog domain, in hardware. The circuit has been optimized for maximum signal to noise ratio even at the lowest reference level, -5 dBu. Detailed values can be found in chapter 30.2.


Does this imply +13 dBu is perfectly fine to use?

I currently have mine set at -5 dBu with my studio monitors' input sensitivity turned all the way down (-20 dB). My seating position is less than a meter away so I can get away with that, but I've been wondering if anything should be changed.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Megalith said:


> From the manual:
> 
> Does this imply +13 dBu is perfectly fine to use?
> 
> I currently have mine set at -5 dBu with my studio monitors' input sensitivity turned all the way down (-20 dB). My seating position is less than a meter away so I can get away with that, but I've been wondering if anything should be changed.


Give it a try see what happens . If you get distortion back off no harm done . That passage seems to imply there is limited improvement to be had in ramping up the level though


----------



## captblaze

Dogmatrix said:


> Give it a try see what happens . If you get distortion back off no harm done . That passage seems to imply there is limited improvement to be had in ramping up the level though



you will also get a warning on the display if you are crossing into a bad place


----------



## bflat

I just got the ADI-2 DAC. Is it normal for the power supply plug to need a very firm insertion to power the DAC? If I lightly touch the plug, the DAC will flicker on/off too. Once powered though, the plug seems to stay put as long as I don't move the DAC too much.


----------



## Dogmatrix

bflat said:


> I just got the ADI-2 DAC. Is it normal for the power supply plug to need a very firm insertion to power the DAC? If I lightly touch the plug, the DAC will flicker on/off too. Once powered though, the plug seems to stay put as long as I don't move the DAC too much.


It is a locking type plug you have to find the keyway insert and twist to lock


----------



## bflat

Dogmatrix said:


> It is a locking type plug you have to find the keyway insert and twist to lock



LOL, thanks! I should have expected such a great feature. Every aspect of the physical design of the AD-2 DAC is amazing.


----------



## McPerk (May 28, 2019)

Dogmatrix said:


> It is a locking type plug you have to find the keyway insert and twist to lock



Exactly, from page 7, section 5.1 of the manual:

"*Socket for power connection.* This socket supports locking type jacks as found on the included RME DC power supply. After inserting the connector carefully turn it by 90° so that it locks."


----------



## bflat

McPerk said:


> The power
> 
> 
> Exactly, from page 7, section 5.1 of the manual:
> ...



Yep, I went straight to the menu section of the manual. Did not even know locking DC plugs existed. Guess I really should start on page 1 of this very thick manual LOL.


----------



## McPerk

It's a great looking manual, especially today when everything is virtual.  They spent the time to do it right.  Great reading for your alone time.


----------



## captblaze

http://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dac_e.pdf

if you have old eyes and need to be able to zoom in, here is a link to a .pdf version of the manual


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Just a quick update fellow adi-2 dac fans. I've had mine for about 4 months now and... wow. I love this so much its like my little baby. I dont think i'll ever replace it unless it breaks but i doubt it because im babying the screw out of it lol. its never pluged into the wall directly always in a surge protector that has tones of protection from belkin. i wipe it often (dust + fingerprints).

god bless you RME! best audio product i've ever owned.


----------



## Andrewteee

This DAC is indeed pretty sweet! What other components fly under the radar? Things that are off the beaten "hifi" path or offer strong value for the money. 

BTW when I bought my RME DAC from B&H it could also be purchased in combination with the Rupert Neve RNHP headphone amp, which I also have and love. I assume that is a combo that is common from B&H, so they paired them together.


----------



## McPerk

bflat said:


> Did not even know locking DC plugs existed.



Leave it to the Germans to engineer the crap out of their products.


----------



## Luckbad

Andrewteee said:


> This DAC is indeed pretty sweet! What other components fly under the radar? Things that are off the beaten "hifi" path or offer strong value for the money.


I wouldn't call the RME ADI-2 DAC under the radar these days. The ADI-2 Pro was pretty under the radar, but this is a pretty active thread.

As far as other stuff that seems to be under the radar:

SPL Phonitor X, XE, and E: Absolutely stellar solid state headphone amplifiers. I'll be publishing a review of the XE soon but need to get a version with the DAC to finish it up. This is another German pro audio company (Sound Performance Lab) that shares some of the same circles as RME. They're due to cross over into our territory here with their current Pro-Fi lineup.
Cayin N8: I haven't heard this, but trusted sources would indicate that it's the best DAP out there right now. It doesn't get a lot of attention, perhaps because most people know of Cayin for their lower end stuff.
Future Sonics: Underappreciated IEM company. They're pretty popular among professional musicians, but under the radar for audiophiles. My guess is that it's because their really great stuff is custom only. I love the Spectrum G10, but it's really not for most people. Their MG5HX, though, is my favorite IEM of all time. But you have to spend over $800 on a custom IEM without hearing it first.


----------



## bflat

Andrewteee said:


> I have a new RME ADI-2 DAC and I'm just starting to figure it out. One thing though - the sample rate is not automatically setting based on the source. I have to manually change it in MIDI on the Mac. Based on what I'm reading in the manual it should adapt automatically to the source sample rate. Any advice?
> 
> I'm using it with an iMac through Roon, Tidal and Qobuz with a Ruper Neve RNHP headphone amp. TIA!



RME can only play the sampling rate that is sent to it from the system OS. In Mac OS, the system level audio can only be set to a fixed sampling rate using MIDI setup. For auto switching to the native sample rate of each track you have to use a media player that has that feature built in. I use JRiver Media Center and the RME is able to switch to native sample rates. In fact I am burning in a mix of 44 and 48 kHz base rates so that I cover both clocks in the RME. I would assume Roon can do the same but have not used that personally.


----------



## Mr B1 (May 29, 2019)

I find the comments bit opposite to my experience regarding fixed sample rates:
Tidal on my Macbook Pro changes sample rate freely over USB (44.1 Hifi / 96 for MQA). For PC I use optical to have Tidal determine the sample rate (optical = external clock, usb = rme clock); only on PC+USB I'm tied down to the set sample rate.


----------



## Andrewteee

Luckbad said:


> I wouldn't call the RME ADI-2 DAC under the radar these days. The ADI-2 Pro was pretty under the radar, but this is a pretty active thread.
> 
> As far as other stuff that seems to be under the radar:
> 
> ...



True. No longer hidden, since I obviously found it.


----------



## Andrewteee

I posted on the RME forum and they're also saying that some of the Mac-based products like iTunes and Tidal don't automatically change the sample rate on the DAC. No one who replaced to my question was familiar with Roon. Sadly, I've not had time for music lately so I haven't continued to experiment with the RME.


----------



## TylersEclectic

Luckbad said:


> I wouldn't call the RME ADI-2 DAC under the radar these days. The ADI-2 Pro was pretty under the radar, but this is a pretty active thread.
> 
> As far as other stuff that seems to be under the radar:
> 
> ...


The SPL Phonitor is in my opinion the big brother to the THX789 that is all the rage these days (I have the 789 and he Phonitor XE), I have seen the Cayin N8 black copper model....and it is a looker, and I trust the owners opinion that it rivals a lot of desktop setups. A lot of under the radar gear gets missed it seems....but I guess it makes it easier to obtain


----------



## bflat

Mr B1 said:


> I find the comments bit opposite to my experience regarding fixed sample rates:
> Tidal on my Macbook Pro changes sample rate freely over USB (44.1 Hifi / 96 for MQA). For PC I use optical to have Tidal determine the sample rate (optical = external clock, usb = rme clock); only on PC+USB I'm tied down to the set sample rate.



Yes, if the music app supports auto switching then it will work. I assume you are using the Tidal desktop app.



Andrewteee said:


> I posted on the RME forum and they're also saying that some of the Mac-based products like iTunes and Tidal don't automatically change the sample rate on the DAC. No one who replaced to my question was familiar with Roon. Sadly, I've not had time for music lately so I haven't continued to experiment with the RME.



@Mr B1 seems to have figured out how to set Tidal to auto switch sampling rate.


----------



## Andrewteee

So using Tidal (and Qobuz possibly) directly does it, eh. Not through Roon then. I'll try that.


----------



## occamsrazor

Andrewteee said:


> So using Tidal (and Qobuz possibly) directly does it, eh. Not through Roon then. I'll try that.



Roon works totally fine on Mac with auto-switching the sample rate, as does Audirvana. Pretty much the only app I've used that doesn't is iTunes. I still use iTunes to manage my music library in terms of adding, editing metadata etc, then Roon syncs with it and I play with Roon.


----------



## mvvRAZ

I use Audirvana personally, works fine (though the UI is a bit retro) and fixes the sample rate. Costs way less than Roon which is nice.


----------



## Andrewteee

occamsrazor said:


> Roon works totally fine on Mac with auto-switching the sample rate, as does Audirvana. Pretty much the only app I've used that doesn't is iTunes. I still use iTunes to manage my music library in terms of adding, editing metadata etc, then Roon syncs with it and I play with Roon.



Huh. I'll look into it again, but so far the DAC is not switching sample rates based on USB input from Roon. I might try a hard reset too.


----------



## bflat

Andrewteee said:


> Huh. I'll look into it again, but so far the DAC is not switching sample rates based on USB input from Roon. I might try a hard reset too.



Just to be clear, the DAC is not deciding what sample rate to play. Your USB source is sending the specific sampling rate to the DAC so the issue is with your media player application.


----------



## Andrewteee

bflat said:


> Just to be clear, the DAC is not deciding what sample rate to play. Your USB source is sending the specific sampling rate to the DAC so the issue is with your media player application.



Right. But it seems the source - Roon so far - is not sending the same rate data to the RME DAC and I'm having to manually adjust it in the OSX Midi settings.


----------



## bflat

Andrewteee said:


> Right. But it seems the source - Roon so far - is not sending the same rate data to the RME DAC and I'm having to manually adjust it in the OSX Midi settings.



Definitely get some support from Roon. Even when you manually change the Mac OS system to a higher sampling rate, all that does is upscale the Roon lower sample rate using a very simple algorithm so you get zero audio benefit.


----------



## Andrewteee

Qobuz is automatically updating the sampling rates on the RME DAC.


----------



## occamsrazor

Andrewteee said:


> Right. But it seems the source - Roon so far - is not sending the same rate data to the RME DAC and I'm having to manually adjust it in the OSX Midi settings.



Just be sure that you haven't got Roon set to upsample everything to a certain sample rate, eg in DSP settings? To be honest while Roon auto-sample-rate switching does work fine for me.... what I do instead in Roon DSP settings is have Roon upsample everything to 32bit/384khz anyway.... You can even go up to 768khz upsampling, but then you lose a little functionality.


----------



## Luckbad

I first got the RME ADI-2 DAC back in January of 2018 (right as it came out!). Lately, I've been doing some shenanigans using its coax input from a guitar/mic preamp to take advantage of the stellar USB drivers and low latency of the unit.

I've finally decided I could use the ADC and USB->S/PDIF capabilities of the RME ADI-2 Pro FS, so I'm planning to do the upgrade shortly (basically as soon as I have a buyer for the ADI-2 DAC).

I did my research and there's really just not anything better out there for anywhere close to the money.


----------



## captblaze

new firmware is available.. lots of changes and bug fixes

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28859

as always if yours isn't causing issues, don't make any with a new firmware.


----------



## Slaphead

captblaze said:


> new firmware is available.. lots of changes and bug fixes
> 
> https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28859
> 
> *as always if yours isn't causing issues, don't make any with a new firmware.*



Good advice in general, but the ADI-2 DAC and PRO have fallback firmware encoded into the device itself, so if the firmware update fails for any reason, the unit will automatically fall back to the firmware that was originally delivered with the device.

I did the upgrade this morning without problem and it took around 10 seconds including turning the unit off and then on again.


----------



## deepwatrcreatur

Slaphead said:


> Good advice in general, but the ADI-2 DAC and PRO have fallback firmware encoded into the device itself, so if the firmware update fails for any reason, the unit will automatically fall back to the firmware that was originally delivered with the device.



I'm consistently impressed by the good judgment of the RME engineers.


----------



## captblaze

Slaphead said:


> Good advice in general, but the ADI-2 DAC and PRO have fallback firmware encoded into the device itself, so if the firmware update fails for any reason, the unit will automatically fall back to the firmware that was originally delivered with the device.
> 
> I did the upgrade this morning without problem and it took around 10 seconds including turning the unit off and then on again.



I agree with your assessment of RME and their (obsessive) attention to detail. and to be honest I took the upgrade for 2 reasons.

1. quick mute by pressing volume 
2. more detail on home screen

and having dual firmware is a bonus it avoids being stuck without a way to go back (looking at you Mytek) 

all in all I have been happy with the ADI-2 DAC and RME as an OEM


----------



## Slaphead

captblaze said:


> and having dual firmware is a bonus it avoids being stuck without a way to go back (looking at you Mytek)



Actually with the ADI 2 DAC/Pro you can go back to whatever firmware version for any reason. If you haven’t kept a copy of your previous FW updates you can contact RME and they’ll supply you with the FW version of your choice.

They know and admit that bugs creep in, and while these bugs may well be innocuous for most users, for some users theses bugs can have a serious impact to their workflow - RME is, after all, a pro audio outfit, and so they offer this.


----------



## TylersEclectic

Now if only they would add purple to the color scheme!


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Darthpool said:


> Now if only they would add purple to the color scheme!



I like the way you think!

I'm glad I got the RME, Good to know that they are showing such good support for their products.


----------



## Overclocked11

Darthpool said:


> Now if only they would add purple to the color scheme!



THIS.. my current color scheme is Purple and Pink (in my PC and peripherals). if they ever added this it would be a great day indeed


----------



## frogmeat69

Just hooked mine up today, what a nice piece of equipment, controls are a bit confusing, but great sounding DAC and amp all around. Very glad I got one!


----------



## MikeW

welcome to the club, your gonna love it


----------



## JerryLeeds

Question about my set up, best way to connect everything. I finally got my THX AAA 789.

RME ADI-2 DAC  balanced output into a Monolith Liquid Platinum and single ended output into the Massdrop THX AAA 789 and then using the THX's single bypass output into a Massdrop CTH.

Seems like the sound quality is the same with either XLR or single input into the THX AAA 789, there is just a volume difference.

I also have these DACs which I can use SMSL M300 and Geshelli Labs Enog2 Pro. But I would prefer to just use the RME ADI-2 DAC.

Thanks


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@JerryLeeds Would prefer? If you would run the other DACs + the other amps, then what would the ADI-2 be used for? EQ and good looks for 1000 EUR?

I find that with most headphones the ADI-2 alone is perfect. I suppose the 789 can be used for very high impedence headphones and the Liquid Platinum for the tube experience. My view.


----------



## TylersEclectic

JerryLeeds said:


> Question about my set up, best way to connect everything. I finally got my THX AAA 789.
> 
> RME ADI-2 DAC  balanced output into a Monolith Liquid Platinum and single ended output into the Massdrop THX AAA 789 and then using the THX's single bypass output into a Massdrop CTH.
> 
> ...


I think, maybe switch the balanced to the THX 789 in that chain? But really it comes down to your preference. I read that the Liquid Platinum converts single ended to balanced internally, that is the reason for suggesting swapping it with the THX789 in your chain if possible....also the CTH is very redundant in that chain...as the Liquid is a “better” and same style amp...but once again go with what you like =) also your original chain works too and shouldn’t be a concern, other then the power output differences you mentioned earlier. But others with more experience can give better experience/advice than me =) above is just my opinion so take it as that, cheers and keep having fun with your gear!


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jun 16, 2019)

Anaz said:


> Try Hi-power mode on the the ADI-2 and let us know how the Abyss-1266 sounds. (IMO the ADI-2 DAC's amp struggles with the low frequency impedance spike on Focal headphones - I hear more bass via the V281). Some pros and one con of the ADI-2 DAC to V281 pairing:
> 
> Pros:
> 
> ...


The ADI-2 DAC sounds wonderful with the Abyss 1266... Though it does struggle to go loud without distortion in high mode.

I am using the Cayin iha-6 in conjunction with the ADI-2... It sounds clean as a whistle.

Although I have not heard amps like the V281 or the Formula S... If not listening at louder volumes... I doubt you would need anything other than the ADI-2 to drive the 1266. I plan on checking out some other amps at RMAF.

Until then... I'm going to enjoy the RME and Cayin combo.


----------



## Traiguen

What difference do you hear from the ADI-2 to the ADI-2+Cayin IHA-6?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jun 16, 2019)

Traiguen said:


> What difference do you hear from the ADI-2 to the ADI-2+Cayin IHA-6?


Not much of anything... I find the IHA-6 to be very neutral.

The only reason I am using the IHA-6 is for the extra power the Abyss 1266 require.... Otherwise the the ADI-2 would be just fine on its own.


----------



## audiorrorist

I think this will be my next purchase.  I have the Duet 2 (MAC/PC) currently and I doubt this will be an upgrade in sound quality, but I have been curious to give this a try.  Anyone know how this compares to a Duet 2?


----------



## Slaphead

audiorrorist said:


> I think this will be my next purchase.  I have the Duet 2 (MAC/PC) currently and I doubt this will be an upgrade in sound quality, but I have been curious to give this a try.*  Anyone know how this compares to a Duet 2?*



No, but I will say that the Duet 2 is very highly rated, and honestly most modern DACs at that level of pricing really don't vary that much in terms of sound quality - a DAC honestly makes the smallest difference in any setup.

If you want the toys that the ADI-2 DAC offers then by all means go for it, but you're already sitting on a highly competent and highly rated audio interface that ultimately might prove to be not that much different, or at all inferior to the ADI-2 DAC for your purposes

I bought the ADI-2 because it offered specific features that I needed at the time, and that it had a damned good sound quality. You probably already have a damned good sound quality with the Duet 2, not to mention the ADC capabilities which the ADI-2 DAC version doesn't have - you need the Pro version for that.

I'm not trying to put you off, but just suggesting that you have a think about where you wallet would be better emptied given that you already have a highly regarded audio interface.


----------



## Overclocked11

^^ good advice.


----------



## audiorrorist

Slaphead said:


> No, but I will say that the Duet 2 is very highly rated, and honestly most modern DACs at that level of pricing really don't vary that much in terms of sound quality - a DAC honestly makes the smallest difference in any setup.
> 
> If you want the toys that the ADI-2 DAC offers then by all means go for it, but you're already sitting on a highly competent and highly rated audio interface that ultimately might prove to be not that much different, or at all inferior to the ADI-2 DAC for your purposes
> 
> ...



I agree with you. 

You know what they say...curiosity killed the cat!  I wasn't expecting an upgrade in sound quality or at least not one that will be audible. Either way the Duet isn't going anywhere!  It offers state of the art sound and has the best volume control I have ever encountered!  The engineers at Apogee know what they are doing!

But I would like to try out the RME ADI-2 DAC in the future.


----------



## Fantasyrulz

Good day guys!

I have recently bought a set of Massdrop THX AAA 789 to pair with my RME-ADI 2 DAC for the balance output but now I'm facing a problem.

As previously I'm using RME-ADI 2 DAC to feed my JBL LSR305 via Balance XLR out, now with my new addition THX AAA 789 I'm running it with RME Unbalance RCA Out.

So when I'm using my THX AAA 789 I can't mute my speakers and both my headphone and speaker plays together!

Any idea to mute my speakers other then physically switching the power off?


----------



## deepwatrcreatur

I don't know how it affects performance, but I've been using an inexpensive output switching device I got off eBay. With it, I can use the XLR DAC outputs with multiple output devices. I figured that since it's completely passive, and also without any attenuation, it shouldn't really degrade performance by much. But I'm also a cable skeptic, which inclines me to a similar view of the effect of this device in the electrical path.


----------



## mixman

Fantasyrulz said:


> Good day guys!
> 
> I have recently bought a set of Massdrop THX AAA 789 to pair with my RME-ADI 2 DAC for the balance output but now I'm facing a problem.
> 
> ...


 I have my Adams A5X's on a separate power strip and just turn that off when I am ready to use the THX AAA. If there is a better way I would like to know too.


----------



## Phoniac

You can use the Phones Output 3/4, or even 1/2, as Line Out. See manual, works perfectly and you are back to comfortable switching.


----------



## PaganDL

mixman said:


> I have my Adams A5X's on a separate power strip and just turn that off when I am ready to use the THX AAA. If there is a better way I would like to know too.




Hi @Fantasyrulz, @mixman,

For muting speakers in general when using headphones or any other audio output, a few options exist.
Depending on your budget, I would suggest two options though having both may be potential overkill unless you have multiple speakers like I do & like to listen to head gear too.

*Option 1:*

Presonus HP4 or other head amp with a monitor pass through connection with a mute button for this very purpose on the unit.
(I mainly use the pass through on HP 4 to carry the audio signal to a hif fi amp I use to drive passive speakers)
(I also find the HP 4 good for ABCD listening for head gear, especially sensitive head gear)


*Option 2*

Monitor Controller, basically a specialised pro speaker amp which allows for easy control of multiple audio sources via one unit.
Have individual as well as master mute function.
Can also carry a balanced audio signal to speakers &/or head amps with XLR connections.
I use the Drawmer MC 2.1.


*Audio Signal Chain is as follows :*

*Audio Interface (Source) TO Drawmer MC 2.1 TO Speakers & Head Amps, including HP 4*
Recently, just to switch things up a little, I use the head out on my Audio Interface to feed the audio signal to the HP 4.

As a side note, some pro speaker or monitor amps also have built in monitor controller functionality so it is possible to do what was just outlined all from one unit though having an MC is still useful especially if you have multiple head amps & speakers.

Feel free to ask more if you need.

Hope you both have a great day !


----------



## Fantasyrulz

I'm so thankful for the great help you guys have given me, headfi really got one of the best community out there.


----------



## PaganDL

No problem siah, @Fantasyrulz,

Just noticed your location.

Good to see more SG on headfi.

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## Fantasyrulz

PaganDL said:


> No problem siah, @Fantasyrulz,
> 
> Just noticed your location.
> 
> ...



Peiseh ah!

Hahahaha good to see familiar faces around!

You guy really make the audio journey alot smoother already!


----------



## Luckbad

@Fantasyrulz 

JBL Nano Patch+
https://www.jbl.com/studio-monitor-...tudio-monitor-controllers-Accessories#start=1

It's quite good and quite inexpensive.


----------



## audiobomber

Why not just switch off the speaker amp when listening to headphones? That's what I do.


----------



## Fantasyrulz

audiobomber said:


> Why not just switch off the speaker amp when listening to headphones? That's what I do.



The speakers got the amp build into itself. So I have to manually switch off both speakers everytime I want to use my headphone lol



Luckbad said:


> @Fantasyrulz
> 
> JBL Nano Patch+
> https://www.jbl.com/studio-monitor-controllers-accessories/NPATCH+BLK-.html?dwvar_NPATCH BLK-_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current&cgid=studio-monitor-controllers-Accessories#start=1
> ...



As @Phoniac suggested 
I could use my RME-ADI 2 DAC Phone out either 1/4 inch or 3.5mm to give my speakers the needed signal and use the remote to switch in between.


----------



## sodesuka

There's also something like this if you want to use balanced out on both your speakers and 789 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Bea...erter-Audio-Selector-Splitter-UK/293052474199


----------



## audiobomber (Jun 23, 2019)

Fantasyrulz said:


> The speakers got the amp build into itself. So I have to manually switch off both speakers everytime I want to use my headphone lol


I see.




Fantasyrulz said:


> As @Phoniac suggested
> I could use my RME-ADI 2 DAC Phone out either 1/4 inch or 3.5mm to give my speakers the needed signal and use the remote to switch in between.


Sounds like it should work. The downside is that the RME headphone op amps will be ahead of the speaker amps. I expect you will hear some compromise.


----------



## TylersEclectic

Fantasyrulz said:


> Good day guys!
> 
> I have recently bought a set of Massdrop THX AAA 789 to pair with my RME-ADI 2 DAC for the balance output but now I'm facing a problem.
> 
> ...



I use this in my chain with my JBL 305s...works well and adds a nice volume control to my desktop for the JBLs. That being said I’m using currently the El DAC single ended into it with “balanced” out to the JBLs.

Oops link to product lol: Nobsound Mini Fully-Balanced/Single-Ended Passive Preamp; Hi-Fi Pre-Amplifier; XLR/RCA Volume Controller for Active Monitor Speakers (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MXC9HHW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ZE8dDbP5BWHFZ


----------



## mixman

sodesuka said:


> There's also something like this if you want to use balanced out on both your speakers and 789 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Bea...erter-Audio-Selector-Splitter-UK/293052474199



Looks good, but I am just worried about something like this ruining my SQ.


----------



## frogmeat69

Something like this might work, I have other similar products and they work great, no sound degradation :  https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Aud...or/dp/B07R1XCNHG?ref_=bl_dp_s_web_14493203011


----------



## mixman

frogmeat69 said:


> Something like this might work, I have other similar products and they work great, no sound degradation :  https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Aud...or/dp/B07R1XCNHG?ref_=bl_dp_s_web_14493203011


That looks good. Now I know you can set different volumes according to input (USB, Optical) but can you set different volumes according to output? I like to keep my XLR connection to my THX on fixed volume and the output of my RCA connection to my Adams on variable so I can control the speakers volume.


----------



## Phoniac

audiobomber said:


> I see.
> Sounds like it should work. The downside is that the RME headphone op amps will be ahead of the speaker amps. I expect you will hear some compromise.



In fact that's an advantage. Due to the very low output impedance of only 0.1 ohms you could use unshielded cable to your amplifier - it would still work. IMO an external controller, no matter if passive or active, will have more potential to degrade the sound than the additional 'headphone op amps'.


----------



## dhananjay

hello,   I am new to this thread.   At present I have 
1) cowon plenue 2 which has 3.5 mm output and also 2.5 mm balanced out put
2) Audeze LCD-2 
3) iem-JH AUDIO Rosie
4) stax L700 with SRM 353
5) External speaker- BEOLIT 17

Need to go for good dac amp so that i can add some more value/quality to my existing setup.  Is adi-2 shall suit my current set up? 
My primary requirement --
a) to have good amp 
b) also good dac so that i can use my TV output /mobile output  to external speaker

Shall ADI-2 will be ok?  

thanks in advance.


----------



## Fantasyrulz

Phoniac said:


> In fact that's an advantage. Due to the very low output impedance of only 0.1 ohms you could use unshielded cable to your amplifier - it would still work. IMO an external controller, no matter if passive or active, will have more potential to degrade the sound than the additional 'headphone op amps'.



Hi @Phoniac 

Would it be better if I use the phone out for my jbl lsr305 or thx aaa 789?

Seems that using the phone output to THX AAA 789 aaa to be a better pair.


----------



## audiobomber (Jun 24, 2019)

Phoniac said:


> In fact that's an advantage. Due to the very low output impedance of only 0.1 ohms you could use unshielded cable to your amplifier - it would still work. IMO an external controller, no matter if passive or active, will have more potential to degrade the sound than the additional 'headphone op amps'.


Either situation is a compromise due to added circuitry. Whether the compromise is acceptable depends on how resolving the system and the listener's tolerance for such things. Running my main system through a headphone amp would be quite intolerable because it would definitely degrade the sound. YMMV.


----------



## Phoniac

audiobomber said:


> Either situation is a compromise due to added circuitry.



Couldn't be more wrong than that. Check the manual's Block diagram in chapter 31.16 - nothing 'additional' for the phones output compared to the XLR output. Then check the tech specs which confirm that the phones output offers same SNR and THD as line output. So where is the sound degraded exactly?


----------



## BurritoJustice

In-fact, in the case of the Pro Fs, using both front phones outputs in balanced mode with TRS to XLR cables offers the highest line performance out of the unit and exceeds the rear XLR specs. In that instance, you get up +28dBu and SNR increases by 3dB.

The headphone outputs are specifically designed to be fantastic line outputs as well.


----------



## Fantasyrulz

Sorry but I have a question.

I tried to use the line out from the phone output but the problem is its just a single TRS output from the phone out.

My speaker needs Dual TRS 1/4" to run well.

If I split the single trs signal as shown above in the manual 3.5mm TRS to dual 1/4 inch TS then the sound degradation is too much.

How do you exactly use the phone out to JBL LSR305? Sorry for the trouble as im just into this hobby.


----------



## dhananjay

hello,
I am not much audiophil but i like listen good quality sound. I have Audeze LCD-2. I am planning to buy RME-ADI-2.  Can someone guide me for following-

1) Apart from listening through my headphone (LCD-2), can we attach external bookshelf speaker to RMEADI-2? 

2) Can I attach my smartphone (samsung S9) ?


----------



## sodesuka

dhananjay said:


> hello,
> I am not much audiophil but i like listen good quality sound. I have Audeze LCD-2. I am planning to buy RME-ADI-2.  Can someone guide me for following-
> 
> 1) Apart from listening through my headphone (LCD-2), can we attach external bookshelf speaker to RMEADI-2?
> ...


Yes to both. You're gonna need either a pair of RCA cable or XLR cable depending on your speakers, and a Type-C to USB B cable or a USB Type-C male to USB A female OTG adapter (easier to come by) that then connects to the supplied USB cable for your S9.

Oh and if your speakers aren't active (which usually have RCA or XLR input) then you may need a power amp between the RME and your speakers


----------



## TylersEclectic

Fantasyrulz said:


> Sorry but I have a question.
> 
> I tried to use the line out from the phone output but the problem is its just a single TRS output from the phone out.
> 
> ...



Look at the back of the unit and use either the XLR or SE outputs to your JBLs....why would you use the phone out? That is for headphones...I can’t tell if you are joking or not? Hopefully that helps if not joking


----------



## Phoniac

Darthpool said:


> Look at the back of the unit and use either the XLR or SE outputs to your JBLs....why would you use the phone out?



He explained that in his post.



Darthpool said:


> That is for headphones...I can’t tell if you are joking or not?



That output is both a perfect line and headphone output. I wonder what 'sound degradation is too much' means. Unbalanced will cause 6 dB lower volume, which is no sound degradation at all (raise the volume - fixed). But I have no experience with the specific speakers used, they might have a strange balanced input that causes problems when used unbalanced...


----------



## TylersEclectic

Phoniac said:


> He explained that in his post.
> 
> 
> 
> That output is both a perfect line and headphone output. I wonder what 'sound degradation is too much' means. Unbalanced will cause 6 dB lower volume, which is no sound degradation at all (raise the volume - fixed). But I have no experience with the specific speakers used, they might have a strange balanced input that causes problems when used unbalanced...




Oops, long day at work and my brain is fried...looks like I posted my solution to it already previously anyhow, I use a passive nobsound pre amp with volume control and switching capabilities just press a button and no more sound out of the speakers.


----------



## mrip541

The features and low noise floor on this thing are really impressive, but the 1/4" headphone out kind of leaves me wanting a little... something. But if I plug it into a tube amp I'll fail my goal of only having one small box on my desk. I'd be totally content if the next firmware update introduced a "warm" or "tube sound" option. Hint hint.


----------



## bflat

mrip541 said:


> The features and low noise floor on this thing are really impressive, but the 1/4" headphone out kind of leaves me wanting a little... something. But if I plug it into a tube amp I'll fail my goal of only having one small box on my desk. I'd be totally content if the next firmware update introduced a "warm" or "tube sound" option. Hint hint.



If "warm and tube sound" is what you want for an all in one box, you got the wrong DAC. Look at Woo Audio DAC/amps. Schiit Lyri 3 with the multi bit module is also a possibility.


----------



## mrip541

bflat said:


> If "warm and tube sound" is what you want for an all in one box, you got the wrong DAC. Look at Woo Audio DAC/amps. Schiit Lyri 3 with the multi bit module is also a possibility.


Fair enough. I got it mainly for the crazy combo of features but a man can dream.


----------



## WildStyle-R11

mrip541 said:


> The features and low noise floor on this thing are really impressive, but the 1/4" headphone out kind of leaves me wanting a little... something. But if I plug it into a tube amp I'll fail my goal of only having one small box on my desk. I'd be totally content if the next firmware update introduced a "warm" or "tube sound" option. Hint hint.



Isn't that the "NOS" filter option?


----------



## lhydavid

mrip541 said:


> The features and low noise floor on this thing are really impressive, but the 1/4" headphone out kind of leaves me wanting a little... something. But if I plug it into a tube amp I'll fail my goal of only having one small box on my desk. I'd be totally content if the next firmware update introduced a "warm" or "tube sound" option. Hint hint.



Hi, may I know how the headphone jack leaves you "wanting a little ... something" ? 
Lol... just out of my own curiosity. 
I hope you're not using it to drive something like a HE6se or similar!


----------



## Soundizer

Anyone tried Focal Clear with the RME ADI-2?

how does it compare with the Sony TA-ZH1ES?


----------



## mrip541

lhydavid said:


> Hi, may I know how the headphone jack leaves you "wanting a little ... something" ?
> Lol... just out of my own curiosity.
> I hope you're not using it to drive something like a HE6se or similar!



I'm driving HD650s and UE 18 Pros. I've just gotten so used to a bit of tube distortion that a flat solid state sound seems to be missing a bit of emotion. I wasn't aware of the NOS filter when I made that post, but now that I've tested it out I don't think it replaces the tube goodness that I'm after.


----------



## Luckbad

The NOS filter won't get you the sound of tubes. The ADI-2 DAC is incapable of producing distortion like a tube amp does.

If you really want to experiment without buying a tube amp, there are some VST plugins out there that do an okay job of it, but they're not great.

If you like the sound of tubes, you need a tube amp. The RME is a blank canvas from which to achieve your preferred sound.


----------



## VRacer-111

mrip541 said:


> I'm driving HD650s and UE 18 Pros. I've just gotten so used to a bit of tube distortion that a flat solid state sound seems to be missing a bit of emotion. I wasn't aware of the NOS filter when I made that post, but now that I've tested it out I don't think it replaces the tube goodness that I'm after.



Part of the reason the RME ADI-2 DAC is used for my e-stat rig and not my dynamic/planar rig... simply too neutral & flat as is for my taste. Need warmth and full body sound for my Fostexes and Sennheisers....they simply sound too thin on the ADI-2. Run the ADI-2 as preamp for my estat rig, just need it for its DAC and feature set... have nice, warmish stereo amp with e-stat transformer driving my e-stat's. Using the ADI-2 as DAC/preamp out to a warmish SS/tube amp is a nice combo to run...


----------



## technobear

VRacer-111 said:


> Part of the reason the RME ADI-2 DAC is used for my e-stat rig and not my dynamic/planar rig... simply too neutral & flat as is for my taste. Need warmth and full body sound for my Fostexes and Sennheisers....they simply sound too thin on the ADI-2. Run the ADI-2 as preamp for my estat rig, just need it for its DAC and feature set... have nice, warmish stereo amp with e-stat transformer driving my e-stat's. Using the ADI-2 as DAC/preamp out to a warmish SS/tube amp is a nice combo to run...


Don't be afraid to use the Parametric EQ. You can dial in all the warmth you desire. True you can't dial in second harmonic distortion if that is what you really need.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

technobear said:


> Don't be afraid to use the Parametric EQ. You can dial in all the warmth you desire. True you can't dial in second harmonic distortion if that is what you really need.


@technobear is right, i sometimes play with the Para EQ, make headphones that i feel are missing some push in certain ranges and boost it. eg: my H6(gen2) for certain tracks i find miss a bit of warmth so i add a tiny tiny bit.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Tsukuyomi said:


> @technobear is right, i sometimes play with the Para EQ, make headphones that i feel are missing some push in certain ranges and boost it. eg: my H6(gen2) for certain tracks i find miss a bit of warmth so i add a tiny tiny bit.



What frequencies do you play with to dial up the warmth a bit?


----------



## Tsukuyomi

CaptainFantastic said:


> What frequencies do you play with to dial up the warmth a bit?


Thats hard to answer, because i feel its artist/album/genre dependant. but for example, when i was listening to Hans Zimmers batman soundtrack, i bumped 20-50hz a tiny bit. and i liked it.


----------



## technobear

CaptainFantastic said:


> What frequencies do you play with to dial up the warmth a bit?


To start, centre on 150 Hz and adjust Q to spread the tails out to 50 Hz and 500 Hz or thereabouts. Don't overdo the gain. 1 dB may be enough. Experiment from there.

If voices still sound a bit thin like they are lacking a body, try a small reduction centred on 3000 Hz spreading to about 1000 and 5000. Again just a few dB.


----------



## Kitechaser

How well does this pair with a magnepan 1.7i?
I would like to use this as a DAC/Preamp paired with Bryston 7bst monoblocks.
Anyone?
Thank you


----------



## Kitechaser

Are you able to use say the SONY WM1A as a source through the USB out?
Can someone please answer this question.
Thanks


----------



## lhydavid

Kitechaser said:


> Are you able to use say the SONY WM1A as a source through the USB out?
> Can someone please answer this question.
> Thanks



If i am not mistaken with the latest fw from sony, the wm1a now has the usb dac functionality. To use it as a source for the RME you might need a usb otg adapter/cable so that the RME recognizes thr wm1a as a source. Then you should be good to go. 

The chain could be
1) Wm1a 
2) usb otg adapter
3) usb cable (the one that came with RME is pretty good)
4) RME ADI-2 DAC
5) headphone/iem 

Hope this helps.


----------



## Kitechaser

lhydavid said:


> If i am not mistaken with the latest fw from sony, the wm1a now has the usb dac functionality. To use it as a source for the RME you might need a usb otg adapter/cable so that the RME recognizes thr wm1a as a source. Then you should be good to go.
> 
> The chain could be
> 1) Wm1a
> ...


Thanks for answering that. 
I'll be using this as a DAC/Preamp for my Speaker system. Just wanted to make sure I would be able to use a DAP as a source.


----------



## lhydavid

Kitechaser said:


> Thanks for answering that.
> I'll be using this as a DAC/Preamp for my Speaker system. Just wanted to make sure I would be able to use a DAP as a source.



Do be careful not to use both the rca out and xlr out at the same time on the RME though. If you do use the rca, do make sure there is nothing connected to the xlr out and vice versa. Cheers!


----------



## captblaze

Kitechaser said:


> Are you able to use say the SONY WM1A as a source through the USB out?
> Can someone please answer this question.
> Thanks



Here is the solution I use when I want to connect to a USB DAC.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

captblaze said:


> Here is the solution I use when I want to connect to a USB DAC.


could you provide a link to where you purchased that? just in case.  Thanks!


----------



## captblaze

Tsukuyomi said:


> could you provide a link to where you purchased that? just in case.  Thanks!



https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH...rds=wmc-nwh10&qid=1562511923&s=gateway&sr=8-1

part # WMC-NWH10


----------



## adeseaso

I was unaware of this and the feature set warranted an evaluation, one is on its way. 

Mainly using Chord Hugo (first version) right now so those two will duke it out in the trenches in the coming weeks.


----------



## Allanmarcus

I just tried the amp with Hi-Power mode on with the Utopia. I think there is an improvement. More punch and dynamics. More emotional. Probably even better with high impedance phones. Any other comments on hi-power mode?


----------



## Luckbad

Hi-Power is better than normal mode. The ADI-2 Pro in balanced is slightly better still.

In both cases, things are slightly rounded. Leading edge transients are a touch dulled. Bass has a tiny flubby characteristic and isn't super tight.

That's true in normal mode, Hi-Power, and balanced. It's marginally better from left to right. I don't find those things to be true from the IEM output, although I do prefer the SPL Phonitor XE with my main IEMs (but only just).


----------



## abirdie4me

Got the ADI-2 DAC today and plugged it into my Keces p8 linear power supply and fed it with Roon via UltraRendu. I haven’t even looked at any settings yet, and I already know this is a keeper. Listened with Utopia and Campfire Atlas so far, and it sounds spectacular. Can’t wait to start exploring all the options, also have a second-hand Liquid Platinum on the way. Should be a fun week.


----------



## MikeW

It’s a great combo, I have adi-2 and LP with JBL LSR monitors. Great satisfying and versatile setup. ADI is my favorite piece of audio gear I’ve ever owned, lot of value for its market segment.


----------



## mcgo

I don’t know about you guys, but with the top notch sound and new AMBER display, I’m in heaven!

My V280 totally loves the ADI-2. Balanced all the way, baby!


----------



## lhydavid

mcgo said:


> I don’t know about you guys, but with the top notch sound and new AMBER display, I’m in heaven!
> 
> My V280 totally loves the ADI-2. Balanced all the way, baby!



Yeah... seems there are quite a few using ADI-2 and V280, me inclusive. 
It's really more than good enough for me! 
Yee Haww....


----------



## NickedWicked

lhydavid said:


> Yeah... seems there are quite a few using ADI-2 and V280, me inclusive.
> It's really more than good enough for me!
> Yee Haww....



V281 as well, and it’s glorious!


----------



## lhydavid

NickedWicked said:


> V281 as well, and it’s glorious!



You're on an ADI-2 Pro FS too!! Smashing!! 
I had a good deal on that, but decided to just get the DAC version. 
Both seem to do great with the violectric amps!


----------



## NickedWicked

lhydavid said:


> You're on an ADI-2 Pro FS too!! Smashing!!
> I had a good deal on that, but decided to just get the DAC version.
> Both seem to do great with the violectric amps!



The Pro has some neat use cases, one of them being an optical connection to a Babyface Pro, so it has a femto clock as well.

Wish I had money for the V281’s bigger newer brother, the Niimbus US4+ but holy moly it’s expensive!


----------



## mixman

NickedWicked said:


> The Pro has some neat use cases, one of them being an optical connection to a Babyface Pro, so it has a femto clock as well.
> 
> Wish I had money for the V281’s bigger newer brother, the Niimbus US4+ but holy moly it’s expensive!


Yeah hopefully I can graduate to a V281 from my THX. That must be a great pairing. I want to do that too an optical pairing of a Babyface Pro with the ADI, but I am already using the optical for my PC connection as I think it sounds better.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

mixman said:


> Yeah hopefully I can graduate to a V281 from my THX. That must be a great pairing. I want to do that too an optical pairing of a Babyface Pro with the ADI, but I am already using the optical for my PC connection as I think it sounds better.



Does that HE-1000 really require so much power? Because I know for sure that the LCD2-CB is fine with the ADI-2 Amp alone. To each his own, but spending 2k chasing a 1% improvement in sound... been there, not worth it IMHO. You even have to question what you lose by adding complexity and more cables to the setup.


----------



## mixman

CaptainFantastic said:


> Does that HE-1000 really require so much power? Because I know for sure that the LCD2-CB is fine with the ADI-2 Amp alone. To each his own, but spending 2k chasing a 1% improvement in sound... been there, not worth it IMHO. You even have to question what you lose by adding complexity and more cables to the setup.


Do I need it for the hp’s I have now? No, which is why I don’t have one. I am thinking of possibly getting a 1266 down the line and those do require a good, powerful amp.


----------



## nlwouter

lhydavid said:


> Do be careful not to use both the rca out and xlr out at the same time on the RME though. If you do use the rca, do make sure there is nothing connected to the xlr out and vice versa. Cheers!



You're saying i can't use the RME with my subwoofer? (Speakers connected via xlr and sub with rca)


----------



## nlwouter

I am intersted in the adi-2 dac, but i am in doubt between this and the audio gd 28.38 or r28. Anyone have listened to both of them?

Or is there another dac/amp i should be wary about? (I listen to both headphones and active speakers equally)

Thanks in advance for any suggestions


----------



## hornytoad

nlwouter said:


> I am intersted in the adi-2 dac, but i am in doubt between this and the audio gd 28.38 or r28. Anyone have listened to both of them?
> 
> Or is there another dac/amp i should be wary about? (I listen to both headphones and active speakers equally)
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions


It’s not close . Rme . Better resolution , better features ,way better measurements without sounding clinical .


----------



## bidn (Jul 31, 2019)

nlwouter said:


> I am intersted in the adi-2 dac, but i am in doubt between this and the audio gd 28.38 or r28. Anyone have listened to both of them?
> 
> Or is there another dac/amp i should be wary about? (I listen to both headphones and active speakers equally)
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions



Hi nlwouter

(BTW I also live in the Netherlands),

in this case I think it is very easy, I personally wouldn't hesitate one second:

- go for the RME ADI 2 DAC

- if you are interested in high fidelity, then avoid at all cost Audio GD. Audio GD stands outs by purposely avoiding feedback loops in their circuitry and uses this as a marketing gimmick for buyers unaware of electronics. However this goes against all the science of electronics and signal processing, i.e. their devices are fundamentally most wrongly designed from a technical, scientific point of view. And the measurements confirm this, the devices are way underperforming re. the quality of the signal output, (well below CD quality), see e.g. Audio GD devices at the bottom (= worse, top = best) of this measurement chart, while RME is among the best performers, about position 10 from the top:







https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents/best-audio-dacs-reviewed-2019-png.29009/

I follow the measurements (performed with a Audio Precision APx555) published here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?reviews/
there you can find measurements relevant to your question, e.g.

- for the RME ADI-2 DAc:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-rme-adi-2-dac-and-headphone-amp.7546/

-for the Audio GD 28.28
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...audio-gd-nfb28-28-dac-and-headphone-amp.5147/

In general, re. resistor-based DACs, although the idea is nice, as far as all measurements I have seen, they have no chance but are definitely way outperformed (not to say crushed) by delta-sigma DACs (ASICs or FPGA implementations), I understand: due to practical issues such as resistor imprecisions, mismatch, etc.

All the best, esp. good luck for your choice and have a nice summer,
bidn


----------



## Luckbad

nlwouter said:


> You're saying i can't use the RME with my subwoofer? (Speakers connected via xlr and sub with rca)



Not sure what he's talking about. You can do this without issue.


----------



## lhydavid

nlwouter said:


> You're saying i can't use the RME with my subwoofer? (Speakers connected via xlr and sub with rca)


Lol sorry! I am sorely mistaken! 
You can! In fact there are many that do so!


----------



## lhydavid

Luckbad said:


> Not sure what he's talking about. You can do this without issue.


 +1
You are dead right! 
My bad.


----------



## frogmeat69

nlwouter said:


> I am intersted in the adi-2 dac, but i am in doubt between this and the audio gd 28.38 or r28. Anyone have listened to both of them?
> 
> Or is there another dac/amp i should be wary about? (I listen to both headphones and active speakers equally)
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions


The RME is a fantastic piece of kit.


----------



## greyscale75

Hope this has not been posted already. New firmware:https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28980


----------



## JerkChicken

greyscale75 said:


> Hope this has not been posted already. New firmware:https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28980



very neat indeed. thanks for the link. I love that it adds support with logitech harmony remotes! +1 for even more user friendliness


----------



## oqvist

Is there any known issues with channel imbalance with this dac? I have to put its balance to 10 right to seemingly get it right with spl meter. Tried three sources and checked cables.


----------



## Mr B1

oqvist said:


> Is there any known issues with channel imbalance with this dac? I have to put its balance to 10 right to seemingly get it right with spl meter. Tried three sources and checked cables.


Funny - I have the exact same setting and thought it must have been my hearing! Will have a look with my Diligent scope and see what's what.


----------



## Luckbad

oqvist said:


> Is there any known issues with channel imbalance with this dac? I have to put its balance to 10 right to seemingly get it right with spl meter. Tried three sources and checked cables.



I've had two different ADI-2 DACs and an ADI-2 Pro FS and channel balance has always been essentially perfect. Sounds like a faulty DAC, amp, tubes, or transducers.

Presumably you're checking with the ADI-2 DAC by itself with multiple different headphones?


----------



## oqvist

Luckbad said:


> I've had two different ADI-2 DACs and an ADI-2 Pro FS and channel balance has always been essentially perfect. Sounds like a faulty DAC, amp, tubes, or transducers.
> 
> Presumably you're checking with the ADI-2 DAC by itself with multiple different headphones?


Yes either bug in the software of the RME ADI-2 or something else RME related. It does the same weither I use the rca or balanced connecters to the amplifier. And coaxial, optical, usb all do the same. I haven´t tried the internal amplifier for a while because it never impressed me anyway but may get around to it some day.

All my headphones get this inbalance when run through RME with no balance adjustments. And they are all fine on other sources.

It sure sounds alright once I balanced compared to Audio GD Reference 9 there surely aren´t any audible distortion or anything that sounds odd in any of the channels.


----------



## nlwouter

oqvist said:


> Yes either bug in the software of the RME ADI-2 or something else RME related. It does the same weither I use the rca or balanced connecters to the amplifier. And coaxial, optical, usb all do the same. I haven´t tried the internal amplifier for a while because it never impressed me anyway but may get around to it some day.
> 
> All my headphones get this inbalance when run through RME with no balance adjustments. And they are all fine on other sources.
> 
> It sure sounds alright once I balanced compared to Audio GD Reference 9 there surely aren´t any audible distortion or anything that sounds odd in any of the channels.



Interesting that you mentioned the reference 9, because someone offered a reference 10 to me for around the same money of the adi-2.

Would you think the dac of the reference 9 is comparable to the adi-2 and how about the headphone out?


----------



## technobear

oqvist said:


> Yes either bug in the software of the RME ADI-2 or something else RME related. It does the same weither I use the rca or balanced connecters to the amplifier. And coaxial, optical, usb all do the same. I haven´t tried the internal amplifier for a while because it never impressed me anyway but may get around to it some day.
> 
> All my headphones get this inbalance when run through RME with no balance adjustments. And they are all fine on other sources.
> 
> It sure sounds alright once I balanced compared to Audio GD Reference 9 there surely aren´t any audible distortion or anything that sounds odd in any of the channels.


Does this happen from the headphone sockets on the RME?

Are you using Auto Ref Level and what happens if you select a fixed level instead (or vice versa)?

Is the Mono setting (IO menu) set to "To Left"? Set it to "Off".


----------



## greyscale75

Have you posted this channel imbalance bug on the RME forums? 
LINK:https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/index.php


----------



## oqvist

Auto ref was on. With it off I got it to within a db with my spl metre so it was probable related to that.. Why whould auto ref on boost one channel more if it was that?  Mono was off at least. I essentially run it at default settings or so I thought . 
Will try the socket tomorrow.

As for Reference 9 it´s so little between them.. I would not make the blind test I recon. Reference 9 is only a DAC but it´s absolutely humongous. My home theater receivers occupy less space. Fascinating to look into and weight a ton but as far from portable you get


----------



## technobear

oqvist said:


> Auto ref was on. With it off I got it to within a db with my spl metre so it was probable related to that.. Why whould auto ref on boost one channel more if it was that?  Mono was off at least. I essentially run it at default settings or so I thought .
> Will try the socket tomorrow.


It shouldn't do that. Wonder if it will do the same for both front ports.

Have you flahsed the latest firmware (26/30 I believe)? A re-flash might fix it.


----------



## oqvist

Trying the Hifiman Ananda on it now. It sounds good but it always sounds good  
I am not even using the hi power setting seem to do fine anyway.


----------



## bryceu

Just wanted to pop in here and share my love for my new RME ADI-2 DAC. I've had it for a week or two now and still feel as impressed with it as the first day I got it. Great detail and super clean, pairs well with the THX 789. And I think I finally got the menu fully down 
As far as line output, what volume do you guys set yours out when feeding an amp via the XLR? I have it at -6.0dBr (+13 dBu) as the manual said I should be getting good voltage going into the amp that way. Anyone able to shed some light on this for me? 
Cheers.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

bryceu said:


> Just wanted to pop in here and share my love for my new RME ADI-2 DAC. I've had it for a week or two now and still feel as impressed with it as the first day I got it. Great detail and super clean, pairs well with the THX 789. And I think I finally got the menu fully down



Are there noticeable differences when listening to your headphones using the ADI-2 alone versus ADI-2 + THX 789?


----------



## oqvist

Yes they dont have the exact same sound signature


----------



## JerkChicken

I’m tempted to get a separate amp for my Ether C Flow. But to be honest i’m pretty satisfied how it sounds SE as is. 

Not sure how much “more” will I be getting with more power?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

oqvist said:


> Yes they dont have the exact same sound signature



Thanks. Understood. Not the "exact" same. But is the difference better clearly, or just better perhaps for some? (I am not talking about cases where more power is needed - the ADI-2 has plenty for most) I am asking because I went down this road with the Gilmore Lite Mk2 based on advice in this forum and ultimately I went back to ADI-2 alone. I genuinely wonder if in most cases adding an amp to the ADI-2 is just for the love of the gear and resulting in fact in more cables and needless complexity.


----------



## mixman

Ho do i get the bit rate to update from Roon via optical? I know I can do it via USB, but the optical connection sounds better on my PC.


----------



## bryceu

CaptainFantastic said:


> Are there noticeable differences when listening to your headphones using the ADI-2 alone versus ADI-2 + THX 789?


I think the amp inside the ADI-2 is actually quite good, but there is definitely an improvement with the 789.
The 789 has a bigger stage overall, much more depth, as well as better dynamics. The ADI-2 can seem a bit compressed in comparison and delivers an inferior imaging experience.
The ADI-2 sounds busier as a result of the smaller stage and lack of layering/
The 789 does a better job resolving micro-detail.
The ADI-2 has a slight mid-bass hump, and some sub-bass roll-off. The 789 feels more linear and reaches deeper. In terms of bass the 789 also has significantly more punch. 
The 789 is overall cleaner, clearer, and faster. 
The 789 is phenomenal. The ADI-2 DAC is a nice built in amp to an amazing DAC.

I almost exclusively listen to the 789 via XLR, however, for the sake of comparison I was just listening to the 789 via the 1/4" to give a more direct comparison. Everything I mentioned holds true via the 1/4" output of the 789.
I'm currently listening through the Auteurs, but the improvements from the 789 over the ADI-2 amp was even more noticeable with the Ether 2 and about the same with the Clear.


----------



## oqvist

CaptainFantastic said:


> Thanks. Understood. Not the "exact" same. But is the difference better clearly, or just better perhaps for some? (I am not talking about cases where more power is needed - the ADI-2 has plenty for most) I am asking because I went down this road with the Gilmore Lite Mk2 based on advice in this forum and ultimately I went back to ADI-2 alone. I genuinely wonder if in most cases adding an amp to the ADI-2 is just for the love of the gear and resulting in fact in more cables and needless complexity.


I don´t dare to speak for others but on the LCD-2 it was a clear improvement but that requires power to blossom. HD 800S that one also performed what I consider better. Bryceus finding works well with those headphones. For someone that spend a fortune on a RME DAC the THX 789 AAA could be considered very cheap and a bargain so yes I am happy I spent the extra. 

With easier to drive headphones there should be less of a difference and there is tons of ways to tune the sound with the dac if you have the energy. I kind of like it simple and don´t tinker anything.


----------



## mixman

bryceu said:


> I think the amp inside the ADI-2 is actually quite good, but there is definitely an improvement with the 789.
> The 789 has a bigger stage overall, much more depth, as well as better dynamics. The ADI-2 can seem a bit compressed in comparison and delivers an inferior imaging experience.
> The ADI-2 sounds busier as a result of the smaller stage and lack of layering/
> The 789 does a better job resolving micro-detail.
> ...



I actually believe the two amps are closer than that. After many different comparisons I think the ADI amp is slightly cleaner and does micro detail a bit better. Yes the THX does dynamics better as it should. Where the THX really excels is soundstage it's deeper and wider than that of the ADI. The ADI in general gives you a more intimate presentation. Right now, I have three amps comparing them the THX, RME and the Liquid Platinum. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. I can't say any blows away the other. Obviously the THX is the bargain......if you can get it, but if you don't really need the extra power, not sure I would wait six months to get one.


----------



## bryceu

Agreed more intimate on the ADI. I didn't mention speed in my comparison but I think that's where the 789 is pulling ahead in clarity and being cleaner since it just feels so precise and exact, especially during busy songs. I got lucky to get the 789 in the second drop, and before the price went up, and yea for the price it's a bargain. Between the ADI and the 789 I don't see any future solid state upgrades necessary. I'm definitely looking forward to getting a tube amp again in the future to harmonize with the Auteurs. 
Either way the ADI is a fantastic piece of equipment, arguably one of my favorite audio purchases to date.


----------



## mixman

bryceu said:


> Agreed more intimate on the ADI. I didn't mention speed in my comparison but I think that's where the 789 is pulling ahead in clarity and being cleaner since it just feels so precise and exact, especially during busy songs. I got lucky to get the 789 in the second drop, and before the price went up, and yea for the price it's a bargain. Between the ADI and the 789 I don't see any future solid state upgrades necessary. I'm definitely looking forward to getting a tube amp again in the future to harmonize with the Auteurs.
> Either way the ADI is a fantastic piece of equipment, arguably one of my favorite audio purchases to date.


Just got a Verite, so I am trying to see which is the best amp for it.....between the THX and LP.


----------



## bryceu

mixman said:


> Just got a Verite, so I am trying to see which is the best amp for it.....between the THX and LP.


Dude congrats! The Verite is on my endgame HP list. 
I tried to buy one from the recent TSAV sale but I was about 5 hours too late to notice it and Alan said they were all gone :’(


----------



## mixman

bryceu said:


> Dude congrats! The Verite is on my endgame HP list.
> I tried to buy one from the recent TSAV sale but I was about 5 hours too late to notice it and Alan said they were all gone :’(


Oops, I got the last one from TSAV. Breaking it and my ears in!


----------



## bryceu

Well enjoy  Love to hear impressions with the ADI + 789.


----------



## organ_donor

Is there difference between single & balanced from Adi 2 to thx 789? 

I have the exact same setup and currently using rca from dac to amp. Been wondering if I should I upgrade to balanced cable.


----------



## bryceu

organ_donor said:


> Is there difference between single & balanced from Adi 2 to thx 789?
> 
> I have the exact same setup and currently using rca from dac to amp. Been wondering if I should I upgrade to balanced cable.


I'm not noticing much difference between the two. A bit hard to A/B since volume match isn't possible (xlr +6db). The only two things I feel like I noticed were more bass texture over balanced and a bit flatter sound with RCA. But I'm completely open to this being placebo.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

So i'm not sure if anyone else here has a similar setup as myself,
I'm using a BeyerDynamic DT1990 pro with the RME ADI-2 DAC and i've owned them both for over a year.
And... holy F, i love this pairing. CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In songs where there are pauses between riffs or vocals, the silence is space level clean! its unbelievable.

I Just love this RME so much, for me, this is end game. i'm done when it comes to DAC/amp, the only thing i would add not change is have a balanced amp to pair with the RME since im lacking a balanced output. thats it.

Satan, I love this little box of magic <3 so amazing


----------



## Kitechaser (Jul 22, 2019)

Figured it out.


----------



## Kitechaser (Jul 22, 2019)

Okay so my ADI-2 DAC keeps losing USB connectivity.
My computer loses connection to the dac, and sound goes completely off.
Has anyone been having the same issues?
It had happened twice, and no matter what I do, I can't get it to recognize it again.
It came back on by itself the 1st time.
Thank you for your help.

Add: it was my USB Port, switched to the ones in front of my computer and it works again. Weird.


----------



## bflat

Kitechaser said:


> Okay so my ADI-2 DAC keeps losing USB connectivity.
> My computer loses connection to the dac, and sound goes completely off.
> Has anyone been having the same issues?
> It had happened twice, and no matter what I do, I can't get it to recognize it again.
> ...



If this was happening when your DAC was not in use, it could be due to your PC going into sleep mode. I have this issue from time to time on my MacBook. Certain USB ports will power off during sleep and not come back after waking. This only happens when I connect my USB to a DAC where it does not use USB bus power and has it's own power supply. I confirmed this is the issue because my fix was to use a USB hub and connect something to the hub that constantly draws USB bus power which in my case is my wireless keyboard dongle. Once I connect my DAC to the same hub, I never have disconnects again.


----------



## Kitechaser

bflat said:


> If this was happening when your DAC was not in use, it could be due to your PC going into sleep mode. I have this issue from time to time on my MacBook. Certain USB ports will power off during sleep and not come back after waking. This only happens when I connect my USB to a DAC where it does not use USB bus power and has it's own power supply. I confirmed this is the issue because my fix was to use a USB hub and connect something to the hub that constantly draws USB bus power which in my case is my wireless keyboard dongle. Once I connect my DAC to the same hub, I never have disconnects again.


So it needs a USB hub?
Connection went out again, middle of being used. Sounded like clipping, and it disconnected again.


----------



## bflat

Kitechaser said:


> So it needs a USB hub?
> Connection went out again, middle of being used. Sounded like clipping, and it disconnected again.



Ouch, middle of playing is something very different than what I was thinking. I would contact RME support on their forums. This looks more like a hardware problem.


----------



## Kitechaser

bflat said:


> Ouch, middle of playing is something very different than what I was thinking. I would contact RME support on their forums. This looks more like a hardware problem.


Okay thanks. Will do that


----------



## Kitechaser (Jul 23, 2019)

So the problem turned out to be compatibility issues with some of the options that my JRiver music player had automatically selected for the ADI-2 Dac.
JRiver had selected a 4XDSD conversion rate  reducing to 2X solved the issue.
Whew!!!


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Fellow RME ADI-2 DAC owners. what is the right answer to this:

The LCD-MX4 has low impedance at 20 ohms. Using low power mode on the ADI-2, a normal towards loud listening level is achieved at -30 dB. By -20 dB it hurts.

Simple question: is there any reason I would want to go to high power mode with low impedance headphones and go to lower dBs? The manual seems to say that the low power mode is a better mode in general for the device safety, etc.


----------



## captblaze

CaptainFantastic said:


> Fellow RME ADI-2 DAC owners. what is the right answer to this:
> 
> The LCD-MX4 has low impedance at 20 ohms. Using low power mode on the ADI-2, a normal towards loud listening level is achieved at -30 dB. By -20 dB it hurts.
> 
> Simple question: is there any reason I would want to go to high power mode with low impedance headphones and go to lower dBs? The manual seems to say that the low power mode is a better mode in general for the device safety, etc.



if you let the DAC determine the auto level, as long as you don't increase the db's you wont go into high power... and this way you can get to hi power when switching to power hungry cans without having to make another settings changed


----------



## Tsukuyomi

I think it auto-jumps to high power mode after -20db no?

i'm getting a pair of LCD-X soon for a birthday gift from myself to myself LOL.
so i can test that if you'd like, the X are also 20-25ohms i think.

also -30 to -20 is pretty loud imo.
with my DT1990 Pros (250ohm) i'll get to max 30! and thoes are 250ohm..


----------



## Allanmarcus

Do what sounds better. If you can't tell the difference, stay in low power mode.


----------



## captblaze

Tsukuyomi said:


> I think it auto-jumps to high power mode after -20db no?



that depends on whether or not you have loudness enabled and are adding or lowering bass and treble gain


----------



## acguitar84

Just ordered the ADI-2 Dac. It should be here Friday so I can mess around with it this weekend. Hope it's somewhat easy to figure out. (and of course sounds great, it's going to replace my mimby in my main headphone rig)


----------



## CaptainFantastic

captblaze said:


> that depends on whether or not you have loudness enabled and are adding or lowering bass and treble gain



I don't have Loudness enabled. But I am not sure I understand the answers. -19 dB in normal mode is far less loud than when manually turning on Hi-Power in the I/O menu. I mean, going from -20 to -19 dB in low power cannot turn on Hi-Power because when I turn on Hi-Power at -19 dB it gets insanely louder.


----------



## captblaze

CaptainFantastic said:


> I don't have Loudness enabled. But I am not sure I understand the answers. -19 dB in normal mode is far less loud than when manually turning on Hi-Power in the I/O menu. I mean, going from -20 to -19 dB in low power cannot turn on Hi-Power because when I turn on Hi-Power at -19 dB it gets insanely louder.



what I am saying is if you increase the treble gain it will shift the point where hi power kicks in, the same with bass and loudness.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

acguitar84 said:


> Just ordered the ADI-2 Dac. It should be here Friday so I can mess around with it this weekend. Hope it's somewhat easy to figure out. (and of course sounds great, it's going to replace my mimby in my main headphone rig)


Good thing you're getting it friday, you can spend the weekend reading the manual first.  and yes it will sound fantastic out of the box.


----------



## bryceu

acguitar84 said:


> Just ordered the ADI-2 Dac. It should be here Friday so I can mess around with it this weekend. Hope it's somewhat easy to figure out. (and of course sounds great, it's going to replace my mimby in my main headphone rig)


ADI-2 replaced Mimby for me as well. You're going to love it, congrats!


----------



## Kitechaser (Jul 24, 2019)

So I messed around with settings on my JRiver music player, found the headphone settings, and......
Wow!! This DAC is no joke, the iem output is incredible, I was not expecting that.
Resolution is incredible, separation, tonality are top notch. Stage is incredibly wide, sounds like it never ends. Background is jet black.
I just bought this for my speakers, but wow the iem output has me stunned.
RME did a hell of a job.


----------



## acguitar84

Dang this RME DAC. I want to stay up all night listening, but have to work tomorrow morning!


----------



## Kitechaser (Jul 27, 2019)

D


----------



## Majestyk

Does this DAC generate heat when powered off? My place can get quite hot in the summer and some hot days I take a break from listening to music. Would be nice not to have to unplug it.


----------



## Quinto

Majestyk said:


> Does this DAC generate heat when powered off? ...



nope..


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Majestyk said:


> Does this DAC generate heat when powered off? My place can get quite hot in the summer and some hot days I take a break from listening to music. Would be nice not to have to unplug it.



The hell kind of broken device generate heat when turned off?


----------



## Majestyk

Many things. My PVR is one of them.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Majestyk said:


> Many things. My PVR is one of them.


if it's generating heat, it's not off.


----------



## Majestyk

My PVR goes into standby. I have a Logitech Transporter that goes into standby as well and never truly shuts off, thus it also produces heat. Obviously the ADI-2 completely powers down.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Majestyk said:


> My PVR goes into standby. I have a Logitech Transporter that goes into standby as well and never truly shuts off, thus it also produces heat. Obviously the ADI-2 completely powers down.


Sure, it has to stay "on" to monitor and record.

One good way to determine debt generation is to look at idle power usage. For the ADI-2: Standby power consumption: 120 mW (10 mA)
120 mW is virtually nothing. Probably just the power needed for the red LED around the power button.


----------



## bryceu

Following up again with a slightly revised opinion of the ADI-2 DAC (amp portion) vs the THX 789. After doing some more listening with my various headphones plus my newly re-acquired Andromeda. To summarize it as easily and simply as I can, the ADI-2 has more body while the 789 has greater stage size, speed, and dynamics. In my earlier comparison I don't feel like I gave the ADI-2's amp as much credit as it deserves as it does quite a nice job. But with that said the 789 the increased speed and room to work within the stage creates an airy and large sound that I appreciate, despite it running a tad lean.


----------



## mixman

bryceu said:


> Following up again with a slightly revised opinion of the ADI-2 DAC (amp portion) vs the THX 789. After doing some more listening with my various headphones plus my newly re-acquired Andromeda. To summarize it as easily and simply as I can, the ADI-2 has more body while the 789 has greater stage size, speed, and dynamics. In my earlier comparison I don't feel like I gave the ADI-2's amp as much credit as it deserves as it does quite a nice job. But with that said the 789 the increased speed and room to work within the stage creates an airy and large sound that I appreciate, despite it running a tad lean.


I agree. I have compared them extensively and switch back and forth every day. The 789 is my go to for better staging and dynamics, but the ADI has a little more up top and even slightly in the low end. It doesn't sound as spacious as the THX, but too me very slightly more detailed though. Generally I use the THX more though because of it's dynamics and staging. Still trying to find a significantly better amp than either without breaking the bank.


----------



## Luckbad (Jul 29, 2019)

@mixman Have you looked into the SPL Phonitor series? If you appreciate solid states it's a notable improvement to go to something like the Phonitor XE. The Phonitor 2 or E should be close to the XE or X for less money (the 2 can go used for under $1000, and the E can be had new for little over $1000). Some folks have noted that the Phonitor E sounds roughly as good as the X, although I've never compared them and I would assume the bass delivery isn't quite as good (just given the size of the power capacitors if nothing else).

I personally fell away from solid state amplifiers a few years back after owning an Audio-GD Master 11 for a while and making the switch to tube amps and tube hybrids. It took the SPL Phonitor XE coupled with the RME ADI-2 DAC to impress me enough to make me pull the trigger on a solid state headphone amplifier again.


----------



## acguitar84 (Jul 29, 2019)

The Phonitor X looks intriguing. Love that picture in the above post of Luckbad's system!!

I'm definitely going to put it on the list of "to buy" items for this fall or the first part of next year. It's seems it would be either the Phonitor or Benchmark for a nice SS amp. Currently on my headphone rig, I'm using the RME Adi-2 DAC (I also have mimby hooked up) to the Jotunheim and mostly the Grado PS1000E (Sometimes my trusty HD650 as well).

Impressions so far of the Adi-2 are mostly positive. I did take it to the downstairs speaker rig and see how it fared against Yggy A1 (hooked up with Lynx Soundcard AES). I had another person listening as well, and we both agreed the Yggy was best on the speaker system. One caveat though, I hadn't (and still haven't) had much time on the Adi-2, there's a lot to learn. I think I've figured out pretty much everything up to the EQ menus after working with it for a few hours Sunday, but hadn't figured out much of anything by Saturday night, it only showed up a day earlier (I got it Friday)! So I hooked it in straight away and just went with the "out of the box" settings when comparing it to Yggy.

More impressions in comparison to the Yggy, the Yggy seemed punchier and more resolving and the Adi-2 more compressed maybe? We didn't spend much time comparing, and in hindsight, I was only using one of the filters in the Adi-2, the default one. This weekend, I tried all of the filters over headphones on the upstairs system, I think it was the "slow" one that I enjoyed the most. Those differences seem really subtle though (switching between filters). I didn't try any of the other filters on the speaker system.

On the headphone rig, I really like the Adi-2. I compared it with the mimby, and while the mimby holds it's own, I was really enjoying the Adi-2. It was fun to use the PS1000e on the Adi-2. On mimby to Jotunheim, it seemed that the PS1000e had too much high end (this is over the past year or more, in fact I had put the PS1000e away for a long time, and just used HD650 because the high end brightness between the 3 of them kept getting worse), but with the Adi-2, it was fun to listen on those cans again. HD650 sounded good too.

I can only begin to imagine what the Phonitor X might sound like. It must be a pretty big step up from the Jotunheim. The only thing that worries me about the Phonitor, other than the price tag, lol, is they seem pretty touchy. Stuff about the 1/4 inch headphone jack and turning down the volume or you can burn up the amp!  I also read a recent post from a guy that had his VU meters stop working. So, I'm going to keep monitoring posts to see how people's Phonitors hold out.

In any event, back to the Adi-2. It's a keeper. Maybe it's not on par? with Yggy ,or at least wasn't in the first brief "shootout" we had Saturday night over the downstairs speaker system (using Freya as the preamp), but it's certainly great fun over the headphones. It's fun to dabble around with the settings too. The differences between Jotunheim and Adi-2 as far as headphones, it seems like plugging directly in Adi-2 with the PS1000e results in a cleaner, maybe more sterile? sound, where the Jotunheim has a teeny bit more punch and umph behind it, but isn't quite as clean. From what I've read about Phonitor X, (and I presume the Benchmark) they'd have the best of both worlds.

I'm thinking of sending in my PS1000e to get a balanced cable put on, so I can hook into Jotunheim balanced. I already have a balanced cable for the HD650 and I like it! I'll just get an adaptor for when I want to go single ended, for instance when I want to play guitar using the Focusrite Scarlett, and I want to use PS1000e or HD650 to monitor.


----------



## Kitechaser (Jul 29, 2019)

acguitar84 said:


> The Phonitor X looks intriguing. Love that picture in the above post of Luckbad's system!!
> 
> I'm definitely going to put it on the list of "to buy" items for this fall or the first part of next year. It's seems it would be either the Phonitor or Benchmark for a nice SS amp. Currently on my headphone rig, I'm using the RME Adi-2 DAC (I also have mimby hooked up) to the Jotunheim and mostly the Grado PS1000E (Sometimes my trusty HD650 as well).
> 
> ...


The ADI-2 needs a lot of fiddling around to sound it's best with speakers, I've been playing around with it for a bit now, and with my JRIVER player, I am using headphone standard settings, 0 on the crossfeed. Your system will obviously need different settings, but this DAC is not plug and play.
It sounds incredible with my system now, but it took a bit of work.


----------



## acguitar84

Kitechaser said:


> The ADI-2 needs a lot of fiddling around to sound it's best with speakers, I've been playing around with it for a bit now, and with my JRIVER player, I am using headphone standard settings, 0 on the crossfeed. Your system will obviously need different settings, but this DAC is not plug and play.
> It sounds incredible with my system now, but it took a bit of work.



That's good to know! On a side note, I've tried JRiver, and went back to Winamp as my media player, to my ears it just sounded better overall. My guess is I just need to fiddle around with everything more in JRiver, lots of study to do! I might go ahead and buy JRiver this time (I've been trying it out again on a 30 day trial), and give it a thorough try to see if I can replace Winamp. I like JRiver's UI better that's for sure. As for the ADI-2, I'll keep tweaking as well. For the foreseeable future it's job will be to stay on the headphone rig anyway, so I don't have to worry about speakers right now. One other thing I've enjoyed about the ADI-2 is how clean parts are, it's a great little DAC for transcribing and figuring out music, which is what I do all of the time!


----------



## Kitechaser

acguitar84 said:


> That's good to know! On a side note, I've tried JRiver, and went back to Winamp as my media player, to my ears it just sounded better overall. My guess is I just need to fiddle around with everything more in JRiver, lots of study to do! I might go ahead and buy JRiver this time (I've been trying it out again on a 30 day trial), and give it a thorough try to see if I can replace Winamp. I like JRiver's UI better that's for sure. As for the ADI-2, I'll keep tweaking as well. For the foreseeable future it's job will be to stay on the headphone rig anyway, so I don't have to worry about speakers right now. One other thing I've enjoyed about the ADI-2 is how clean parts are, it's a great little DAC for transcribing and figuring out music, which is what I do all of the time!


JRiver once you figure it out is very nice, it's the best audio player application that I have come across so far. And the ADI-2 combo is exceptional. 
There are so many options with this DAC that you can basically get whatever sound you want out of it. I am in the process of DIY upgrading my speaker internal wires and binding posts, but the sound is already to the point where this setup is a showstopper. 
I am also going to be getting a Buchardt S400 for my bedroom, and I am so impressed with this DAC that I will be buying another one 
That's the best compliment I can pay RME.


----------



## bryceu

Luckbad said:


> @mixman Have you looked into the SPL Phonitor series? If you appreciate solid states it's a notable improvement to go to something like the Phonitor XE. The Phonitor 2 or E should be close to the XE or X for less money (the 2 can go used for under $1000, and the E can be had new for little over $1000). Some folks have noted that the Phonitor E sounds roughly as good as the X, although I've never compared them and I would assume the bass delivery isn't quite as good (just given the size of the power capacitors if nothing else).
> 
> I personally fell away from solid state amplifiers a few years back after owning an Audio-GD Master 11 for a while and making the switch to tube amps and tube hybrids. It took the SPL Phonitor XE coupled with the RME ADI-2 DAC to impress me enough to make me pull the trigger on a solid state headphone amplifier again.


Focal was using lots of Phonitors at their booth for SoCal CanJam. Listening to the Clear and Utopia on the Phonitors was really nice, but I couldn't really make any valid comparisons to the ADI or 789 from a one-time listen in that setting. Really cool looking amps for sure!


----------



## bryceu

I also finally went in on some JBL desktop monitors yesterday. I've been speakerless on my desk since getting rid of my 10 yr old Logitech 2.1 system about a year ago lol. Excited to hook them up to the ADI tomorrow when they arrive!


----------



## mixman

Luckbad said:


> @mixman Have you looked into the SPL Phonitor series? If you appreciate solid states it's a notable improvement to go to something like the Phonitor XE. The Phonitor 2 or E should be close to the XE or X for less money (the 2 can go used for under $1000, and the E can be had new for little over $1000). Some folks have noted that the Phonitor E sounds roughly as good as the X, although I've never compared them and I would assume the bass delivery isn't quite as good (just given the size of the power capacitors if nothing else).
> 
> I personally fell away from solid state amplifiers a few years back after owning an Audio-GD Master 11 for a while and making the switch to tube amps and tube hybrids. It took the SPL Phonitor XE coupled with the RME ADI-2 DAC to impress me enough to make me pull the trigger on a solid state headphone amplifier again.



Love the way that lights up! I will put the SPL on the shortlist. The only thing is they do not seem to be mentioned much anymore and I rarely see them used. Tried the Liquid Platinum and while it was pretty good I just felt it was missing some detail, while trading off better dynamics and better bass over the THX and RME amps. I didn't feel it was a big enough step up.  Would like a nice tube amp like a WA 22 that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I have mostly Planars so OTL's won't really work for me. Don't want one of the budget tube amps as it seems if you do tubes you have spend good money to do it right. I was thinking about picking up a used ICAN Pro to maybe tide me over till I get something like a GSX mini, Vio V281 or something else in that price range.


----------



## Platinum777

Always wanted to try the new RME stuff, compared to Mytek Brooklyn< is it similar? clarity wise and also is it similar to UAD converters.


----------



## captblaze

Platinum777 said:


> Always wanted to try the new RME stuff, compared to Mytek Brooklyn< is it similar? clarity wise and also is it similar to UAD converters.



sold my Brooklyn + after purchasing the ADI2 DAC and doing a side by side comparison

my ears prefer what the ADI2 DAC does in my use case (I wont give a more detailed description because I have old analogue ears)


----------



## acguitar84

Just checking in again here. I've been living with the ADI for nearly a week now, got it last Friday. I really love this thing! In fact, I'm in that, well I need to get to sleep now, but just one more tune mode right now. It's really addicting. One more tune then I'll shut down. Then another, and another and so on.

I'm using Winamp, USB to RME, into Jotunheim Balanced, and HD650 balanced out of the Jotunheim. A fun pairing! I'm using the HD650 exclusively tonight, my PS1000e are on their way to New York to have a balanced cable installed. I really like the "slow" filter in the ADI DAC. Really fun listening.


----------



## bryceu

acguitar84 said:


> Just checking in again here. I've been living with the ADI for nearly a week now, got it last Friday. I really love this thing! In fact, I'm in that, well I need to get to sleep now, but just one more tune mode right now. It's really addicting. One more tune then I'll shut down. Then another, and another and so on.
> 
> I'm using Winamp, USB to RME, into Jotunheim Balanced, and HD650 balanced out of the Jotunheim. A fun pairing! I'm using the HD650 exclusively tonight, my PS1000e are on their way to New York to have a balanced cable installed. I really like the "slow" filter in the ADI DAC. Really fun listening.


I agree, most of my time is spent on slow filter.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

bryceu said:


> I agree, most of my time is spent on slow filter.



What is the sound difference between the Slow and SD Slow filters supposed to be? To my ears the Slow sounds a little smoother. But the difference is very slight.


----------



## bflat

CaptainFantastic said:


> What is the sound difference between the Slow and SD Slow filters supposed to be? To my ears the Slow sounds a little smoother. But the difference is very slight.



You can reference the manual and also read up on minimum phase (slow) and linear phase (sharp) filters. Audibly, it's easier to pick out the differences with a snare drum recording. What I have experienced is:

Sharp - good attack (higher frequency) and good impact (lower frequency), but the timing of the snare and drum was slightly off. Unless you have heard a lot of snare drum live, you may not notice it. It sounds as if the impact starts just ahead of the attack which is not how it's suppose to be. Overall a slightly fuller sound.
Slow - timing was good, but loss a little bite on the attack, and amount of impact. Overall slightly leaner sound.
SD Sharp - timing was ok, impact was good, attack a little soft.
SD Slow - timing was good, attack good, impact just a hair less than Sharp so I decided to stick to this setting.


----------



## Kitechaser (Aug 1, 2019)

bflat said:


> You can reference the manual and also read up on minimum phase (slow) and linear phase (sharp) filters. Audibly, it's easier to pick out the differences with a snare drum recording. What I have experienced is:
> 
> Sharp - good attack (higher frequency) and good impact (lower frequency), but the timing of the snare and drum was slightly off. Unless you have heard a lot of snare drum live, you may not notice it. It sounds as if the impact starts just ahead of the attack which is not how it's suppose to be. Overall a slightly fuller sound.
> Slow - timing was good, but loss a little bite on the attack, and amount of impact. Overall slightly leaner sound.
> ...


I am using the same settings, and agree with this characterization of the sound differences completely.
Also SD Slow has a more natural non fatiguing treble.


----------



## bryceu

CaptainFantastic said:


> What is the sound difference between the Slow and SD Slow filters supposed to be? To my ears the Slow sounds a little smoother. But the difference is very slight.


The best way I could describe it is that slow is a more developed sound (slightly busier) while SD slow sounds a tad preciser?


----------



## technobear

bflat said:


> You can reference the manual and also read up on minimum phase (slow) and linear phase (sharp) filters.


You could also read up on minimum phase (fast/sharp) and linear phase (slow) filters.

Yep, no relationship exists between fast vs. slow roll-off and linear vs. minimum phase. Completely different topics.


----------



## bflat

technobear said:


> You could also read up on minimum phase (fast/sharp) and linear phase (slow) filters.
> 
> Yep, no relationship exists between fast vs. slow roll-off and linear vs. minimum phase. Completely different topics.



Right. I also misquoted the manual. It should be minimum phase (SD) and linear phase (Sharp/Slow).


----------



## wormsdriver

Hey guys, when using usb on a Windows 10 pc, how do you set it up in order for tidal (master/hifi) to automatically use the correct bit rate?


----------



## Gww1

wormsdriver said:


> Hey guys, when using usb on a Windows 10 pc, how do you set it up in order for tidal (master/hifi) to automatically use the correct bit rate?


I don't believe it can be done, the RME drivers don't support multiple bitrates in WASAPI and although the standard windows driver 'should' support it, it doesn't in Tidal for whatever reason.
I just use optical output from my PC when using Tidal.
The other option is to use Roon or Audirvana which support Tidal and use ASIO which supports bitrate switching.


----------



## wormsdriver (Aug 3, 2019)

Gww1 said:


> I don't believe it can be done, the RME drivers don't support multiple bitrates in WASAPI and although the standard windows driver 'should' support it, it doesn't in Tidal for whatever reason.
> I just use optical output from my PC when using Tidal.
> The other option is to use Roon or Audirvana which support Tidal and use ASIO which supports bitrate switching.


Thanks for that, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.
I've had this dac for a few months now and also started using my older Sony laptop with it since it has optical out, however I recently tried the sun input again and for some reason I thought it sounded a bit better. 
I don't know man but I am using a cheap ass optical cable so maybe I'll try another one see if that helps. Lol


----------



## Allanmarcus

bryceu said:


> Following up again with a slightly revised opinion of the ADI-2 DAC (amp portion) vs the THX 789. After doing some more listening with my various headphones plus my newly re-acquired Andromeda. To summarize it as easily and simply as I can, the ADI-2 has more body while the 789 has greater stage size, speed, and dynamics. In my earlier comparison I don't feel like I gave the ADI-2's amp as much credit as it deserves as it does quite a nice job. But with that said the 789 the increased speed and room to work within the stage creates an airy and large sound that I appreciate, despite it running a tad lean.



Good thing you can just bump up the bass a little when feeding the THX from the RME and get the best of both worlds.


----------



## Docharsha89

Hello fellow Head-fiers. I'm new to Head-fi and this is my first post here. I use an RME ADI-2 DAC with AQ Nighthawk Carbon and HD650 Headphones. After reading a lot of Rave reviews about the product, I ended up getting it. I have a few issues which need your help, to sort out. The first being Sound settings : There are a plethora of options to tweak and adjust, which even after having a brief read of the manual, I cant seem to get right. I have a Chord Mojo, which I used before and I grew to like the Chord tonality of sound. Now moving to RME, it sounds a bit analytical and at times sibilant, even after manually reducing treble. Can someone, please help me by providing the settings used for open back headphones ?


----------



## kdickin2

Docharsha89 said:


> Hello fellow Head-fiers. I'm new to Head-fi and this is my first post here. I use an RME ADI-2 DAC with AQ Nighthawk Carbon and HD650 Headphones. After reading a lot of Rave reviews about the product, I ended up getting it. I have a few issues which need your help, to sort out. The first being Sound settings : There are a plethora of options to tweak and adjust, which even after having a brief read of the manual, I cant seem to get right. I have a Chord Mojo, which I used before and I grew to like the Chord tonality of sound. Now moving to RME, it sounds a bit analytical and at times sibilant, even after manually reducing treble. Can someone, please help me by providing the settings used for open back headphones ?



I also just received the ADI-2.  In all honesty, I think the RME's headphone amplifier sounds pretty terrible with my HD600s, at least compared to my Bottlehead Crack.  Hell, even my original Schiit Magni sounded better.  The RME sounds thin, hollow, and coarse.  I've activated high power mode and played with the filters, and neither fixed the issues I'm hearing with the headphone amplifier.  It's possible that the EQ and crossfeed settings could help, but I'm not too interested in tinkering with those.  I didn't buy the RME to function as a headphone amp.  I bought it to serve as a DAC, and as a DAC, it's phenomenal.


----------



## Arniesb

kdickin2 said:


> I also just received the ADI-2.  In all honesty, I think the RME's headphone amplifier sounds pretty terrible with my HD600s, at least compared to my Bottlehead Crack.  Hell, even my original Schiit Magni sounded better.  The RME sounds thin, hollow, and coarse.  I've activated high power mode and played with the filters, and neither fixed the issues I'm hearing with the headphone amplifier.  It's possible that the EQ and crossfeed settings could help, but I'm not too interested in tinkering with those.  I didn't buy the RME to function as a headphone amp.  I bought it to serve as a DAC, and as a DAC, it's phenomenal.


Have you seen any half decent amplifier with switched power supply? Cuz i have not.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

kdickin2 said:


> I also just received the ADI-2.  In all honesty, I think the RME's headphone amplifier sounds pretty terrible with my HD600s, at least compared to my Bottlehead Crack.  Hell, even my original Schiit Magni sounded better.  The RME sounds thin, hollow, and coarse.  I've activated high power mode and played with the filters, and neither fixed the issues I'm hearing with the headphone amplifier.  It's possible that the EQ and crossfeed settings could help, but I'm not too interested in tinkering with those.  I didn't buy the RME to function as a headphone amp.  I bought it to serve as a DAC, and as a DAC, it's phenomenal.



Interesting. I have been using the ADI-2 with the HD-600s for months now and I think they pair very well. I use the SD Slow or Slow filters and sometimes apply EQ, sometimes I don't. I compared to what it sounds like through the Grace Design m900 DAC/AMP and the ADI-2 DAC + Gilmore Lite Mk2 amp and I prefer the ADI-2 by itself.

If it would sound terrible, I would put the HD-600s away quickly after switching from the LCD MX4.


----------



## MikeW (Aug 4, 2019)

Well coming from a bottlehead, there will be a drastic difference here. Apples and oranges, clearly you've forgotten, or never knew what "Flat" sounded like. You'd need to listen to the ADI-2 for an extended period of time to reset your expectation. Many have listened to the amp and compared it to other 300-500$ solid state amps and found it better then or as good.  You really need to spend well over 500$ in an amp only to significantly better it. There are plenty of amp's that use Switch mode power supplies that sound great btw. My Liquid Platinum has a SMPS and sounds fantastic with the ADI-2. As does the ever popular Mass Drop THX 789, which is barely an improvement, if any on the ADI's amp btw. You can pretty much make the ADI-2's headphone amp sound like anything you want with the excellent built in parametric eq that you refuse to fiddle with. About the only thing you can't replicate is tube distortion. 

It is possible to implement a SMPS into a high end design, and is gaining popularity. It presents unique engineering challenges, but so does linear PSU. You can't just say "XXX product uses SMPS, it's garbage"...


----------



## Docharsha89

MikeW said:


> Well coming from a bottlehead, there will be a drastic difference here. Apples and oranges, clearly you've forgotten, or never knew what "Flat" sounded like. You'd need to listen to the ADI-2 for an extended period of time to reset your expectation. Many have listened to the amp and compared it to other 300-500$ solid state amps and found it better then or as good.  You really need to spend well over 500$ in an amp only to significantly better it. There are plenty of amp's that use Switch mode power supplies that sound great btw. My Liquid Platinum has a SMPS and sounds fantastic with the ADI-2. As does the ever popular Mass Drop THX 789, which is barely an improvement, if any on the ADI's amp btw. You can pretty much make the ADI-2's headphone amp sound like anything you want with the excellent built in parametric eq that you refuse to fiddle with. About the only thing you can't replicate is tube distortion.
> 
> It is possible to implement a SMPS into a high end design, and is gaining popularity. It presents unique engineering challenges, but so does linear PSU. You can't just say "XXX product uses SMPS, it's garbage"...



Could you suggest an eq setting for the Audioquest NH ? Also what other changes have you made to the sound settings ? I'm really clueless regarding tweaking the settings. I was hoping it would easy, but it doesn't seem to be so at all.


----------



## Docharsha89

The typical Chord sound could be described as effortless and holographic without even a tiny hint of sibilance, but having a very well extended treble at the same time with near perfect bass and mids. I was wondering If my RME could emulate such a sound/better it.


----------



## MikeW (Aug 4, 2019)

Parametric EQ takes a bit of practice. The User interface of the ADI-2 is pretty good, but not very discoverable, or particularly intuitive. So if your having issue's with that i'd suggest hitting up youtube and finding the manufacturer created tutorials. It's not too bad once you have a grasp of how the interface works.  You will need to read some guides on what a parametric EQ is, and how to adjust it.  You will need to learn what frequency ranges effect things like sibilance, and bass response, warmth and tonality. It's best that you find a guide/tutorial on EQ's and frequencies, then us try to explain it here.

You also really need to give it a little more time. If you've been listening to something for a long time and then suddenly switch to something else. Particularly two excellent devices like Chord and RME,  you need to adjust.

My profile for the EQ on my HD650 is a big bass boost +8DB at 44 hz. a slight 1db boost at 120 hz, a 3.5 boost at 1.2k, followed by a sharp -6db cut at 8k.. well let me just make it easy for you.

Exact settings in the parametric EQ: *Specific for HD650*

RED band
B1 G+8.0 F44 Q 0.5

YELLOW band
B2 G+1.0 F120 Q.05

GREEN band
B3 G+3.5 F1.20k Q0.5

LIGHT BLUE
B4 G-6.0 F8.0k Q5.0

DARK BLUE
B5 G+0.0 F14.0k Q2.7  - last little line is a down curve, this causes a huge spike at the end of the FR range.

Come to think of it, I was using a bit of a different profile back when I was using the ADI-2 as my AMP. I don't recall the exact settings, you will have to fiddle. The above is my  preferred profile with my Liquid Platinum. What is universal, with HD650 is a strong bass boost and cut to 8k. everything else is up for debate. You may start with a +6 DB boost at 44 HZ, and a -5 cut at 8k and see how that sounds before moving forward.


----------



## adeseaso

Docharsha89 said:


> The typical Chord sound could be described as effortless and holographic without even a tiny hint of sibilance, but having a very well extended treble at the same time with near perfect bass and mids. I was wondering If my RME could emulate such a sound/better it.



Do note that the Mojo is rolled off by design to allow use of less than great sources and headphones on the go without sibilance. It's smooth compared to just about any other DAC you'll pit it against. It's how its maker intended for it to sound.


----------



## Quinto

Luckbad said:


> @mixman Have you looked into the SPL Phonitor series? If you appreciate solid states it's a notable improvement to go to something like the Phonitor XE. The Phonitor 2 or E should be close to the XE or X for less money (the 2 can go used for under $1000, and the E can be had new for little over $1000). Some folks have noted that the Phonitor E sounds roughly as good as the X, although I've never compared them and I would assume the bass delivery isn't quite as good (just given the size of the power capacitors if nothing else).
> 
> I personally fell away from solid state amplifiers a few years back after owning an Audio-GD Master 11 for a while and making the switch to tube amps and tube hybrids. It took the SPL Phonitor XE coupled with the RME ADI-2 DAC to impress me enough to make me pull the trigger on a solid state headphone amplifier again.


..I'm still happy with my ADI-2 and V280, it does look a bit understated though compared to your SPL lol  Bet it sounds awesome
I have their phone stage (phonos ) which is really good in many ways, great brand


----------



## TylersEclectic

Quinto said:


> ..I'm still happy with my ADI-2 and V280, it does look a bit understated though compared to your SPL lol  Bet it sounds awesome
> I have their phone stage (phonos ) which is really good in many ways, great brand


I also love the synergy between the Phonitor XE and the ADI-2DAC, it is my go to for evaluating headphones. For distortion happiness I go RDAC and one of my tube amps lol


----------



## Allanmarcus

kdickin2 said:


> I also just received the ADI-2.  In all honesty, I think the RME's headphone amplifier sounds pretty terrible with my HD600s, at least compared to my Bottlehead Crack.  Hell, even my original Schiit Magni sounded better.  The RME sounds thin, hollow, and coarse.  I've activated high power mode and played with the filters, and neither fixed the issues I'm hearing with the headphone amplifier.  It's possible that the EQ and crossfeed settings could help, but I'm not too interested in tinkering with those.  I didn't buy the RME to function as a headphone amp.  I bought it to serve as a DAC, and as a DAC, it's phenomenal.


Ty using the loudness option. It will bump up the bass a bit at lower volumes, then reduce it if you play the amp louder. You can google loudness to learn about the history of the loudness option in home receivers and amps.

The easiest way to start experimenting with EQ is the with bass and treble knobs on the RME. The next easiest is to the use the EQ on your computer. If you are using iTunes or jRiver, eq is trivially easy. Play with it in software first as the RME interface for EQ is not great for an experienced person, let alone an experienced person Maybe one day they will put all the controls into software accessible on a computer, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## technobear

Docharsha89 said:


> The typical Chord sound could be described as effortless and holographic without even a tiny hint of sibilance, but having a very well extended treble at the same time with near perfect bass and mids. I was wondering If my RME could emulate such a sound/better it.


Yes, the ADI2-DAC can sound like this. All you have to do is use it for 200 hours. I also recommend the 'Slow' filter.


----------



## technobear

kdickin2 said:


> I also *just received* the ADI-2.  In all honesty, I think the RME's headphone amplifier sounds pretty terrible with my HD600s...


There's a clue in the words 'just received'. Come back and tell us how it sounds after 200 hours of use.


----------



## kdickin2

technobear said:


> There's a clue in the words 'just received'. Come back and tell us how it sounds after 200 hours of use.



I doubt I'll get that many hours on the head amp total in the unit's lifetime.  I bought it as a DAC for my living room speaker set up, where it performs beautifully when fed by an Allo DigiOne Roon endpoint.  The DAC section really is phenomenal.

I will admit that my initial impressions of the headphone amp were made based on a first listen a few days ago when it was new out of the box.  I listened to a few more tracks over the headphone amp this afternoon, and it does seem to have lost a lot of the congestion that I noticed on first listen.  The DAC line out, by contrast, sounded excellent out of the box.  I still don't love it as a headphone amp, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt that it would open up further with some more hours on it.


----------



## Docharsha89 (Aug 5, 2019)

MikeW said:


> Parametric EQ takes a bit of practice. The User interface of the ADI-2 is pretty good, but not very discoverable, or particularly intuitive. So if your having issue's with that i'd suggest hitting up youtube and finding the manufacturer created tutorials. It's not too bad once you have a grasp of how the interface works.  You will need to read some guides on what a parametric EQ is, and how to adjust it.  You will need to learn what frequency ranges effect things like sibilance, and bass response, warmth and tonality. It's best that you find a guide/tutorial on EQ's and frequencies, then us try to explain it here.
> 
> You also really need to give it a little more time. If you've been listening to something for a long time and then suddenly switch to something else. Particularly two excellent devices like Chord and RME,  you need to adjust.
> 
> ...





MikeW said:


> Parametric EQ takes a bit of practice. The User interface of the ADI-2 is pretty good, but not very discoverable, or particularly intuitive. So if your having issue's with that i'd suggest hitting up youtube and finding the manufacturer created tutorials. It's not too bad once you have a grasp of how the interface works.  You will need to read some guides on what a parametric EQ is, and how to adjust it.  You will need to learn what frequency ranges effect things like sibilance, and bass response, warmth and tonality. It's best that you find a guide/tutorial on EQ's and frequencies, then us try to explain it here.
> 
> You also really need to give it a little more time. If you've been listening to something for a long time and then suddenly switch to something else. Particularly two excellent devices like Chord and RME,  you need to adjust.
> 
> ...


Your EQ parameters helped the HD650 sound more forward, and alive, If I may say that. Coming to the Audioquest Nighthawk, there is a very mild recession in the mids, in B3 (Green Band), could I increase the values given by you (+3.5dB) to +6dB ? Does making use of EQ tamper with the sound, the manufacturer of the headphone originally intended ? Just an honest doubt...


----------



## adeseaso (Aug 6, 2019)

technobear said:


> Yes, the ADI2-DAC can sound like this. All you have to do is use it for 200 hours. I also recommend the 'Slow' filter.



I'm usually one to notice changes (willingly accepting that it's often my hearing adjusting) but with the RME I haven't found any difference at all over 500 hours or so. Using the slow filter out of preference as well.

It's been sitting beside a Mojo and Hugo on my shelf and I disagree that the RME can sound like a Chord. Different structure and timbre to the sounds they make. I've scratched my head over why and I assume the difference must be hidden in the time domain because it's certainly not a frequency response difference.

Plenty of wiggle room for subjective takes in a RME vs Chord comparison imho.


----------



## Soundwave76

kdickin2 said:


> I also just received the ADI-2.  In all honesty, I think the RME's headphone amplifier sounds pretty terrible with my HD600s, at least compared to my Bottlehead Crack.  Hell, even my original Schiit Magni sounded better.  The RME sounds thin, hollow, and coarse.  .



That's probably the first time you hear a transparent DAC + headphone amp. This is how your music should sound without any colorations from inferior devices.


----------



## Docharsha89 (Aug 7, 2019)

chungjun said:


> Have been reading up the manual and digesting the information provided in it.
> 
> One thing that caught my curiosity is the "_De-Emphasis_" option.
> 
> ...


I use the De-Emphasis setting while using optical input. I use an Audioquest Carbon Optical cable, and from what I'm hearing, I prefer it to the USB input. The USB input sounds a bit warm and coloured when compared to optical. Atleast that's what I'm hearing. USB in comparison is extremely well implemented, when compared to something like the Chord Mojo, which to be frank, SUCKED through USB input. Coming to de-emphasis, I feel its inactive when I'm using Optical input, since it sounds more "mellow" once I turn it on, as it cuts out the HF sounds a bit. What is your take on this..? Is it worth turning it on, at the loss of Treble detail and air ?


----------



## eugenius

Soundwave76 said:


> That's probably the first time you hear a transparent DAC + headphone amp. This is how your music should sound without any colorations from inferior devices.



RME gives you EQ to make your nasty superior device into an enjoyable inferior device.


----------



## Soundwave76

^ yes, but it’s your choice to use them or not. A key difference.


----------



## Chesterfield (Aug 9, 2019)

So much of high end audio seems like it's about frequency swapping: change a cable, or whatever, and you hear new details in one frequency range, but lose others. The RME ADI-2 DAC is the first piece of equipment I've bought in years that I can definitely say I hear more, without frequency swapping. It just sounds more natural--meaning you year so many more of the micro details that make instruments sound like they should. This is a truly massive step up from my Schiit Gungnir.


----------



## Gradius (Aug 19, 2019)

Euphonik said:


> I'm pretty sure it'll drive practically any headphone you could attach to it. Your HD6XX is 300ohms- ADI-2 will output .3 watts at that level of resistance before clipping (.2 watts are the approximate power handling limit for the HD6XX).
> 
> Edit: HE400i can handle a nominal 6W @ 40ohm, you might want a THX AAA in balanced output for that...



Sorry for bump, just saw this one.

Depends actually...

The HD650 is capable of 500mW (or 0.5W) continuous max (as per EN 60-268-7 aka IEC 60268-7:2010), so it depends.   If RME ADI-2 DAC output under DIN 45580 specs, then, *and ONLY then*, is 200mW (or 0.2W).

HOWEVER, since RME ADI-2 DAC is a product made in Germany by germanies, I'm pretty sure it uses the most updated Europe specifications (International since 2010), hence EN 60-268-7 and *not* DIN 45580 (besides, DIN is pretty much *dead*, that thing is from 1975 and shouldn't be used anymore).

What's more?  HD650 is also made in Germany, and they indeed uses the EN 60-268-7 specs.


----------



## lentoviolento

mixman said:


> I have my Adams A5X's on a separate power strip and just turn that off when I am ready to use the THX AAA. If there is a better way I would like to know too.



How does your rme sound with zmf and meze?


----------



## mixman

lentoviolento said:


> How does your rme sound with zmf and meze?


The RME can power either one well. Tonally since it is brighter than the THX, I would say it sounds better with the Verite than the Empy. The THX makes the best of both of their soundstages, since the RME soundstage is relatively flat.


----------



## 36aMAN

hey guys.

does anyone compere RME ADI-2 DAC with Chord Qutest or Hugo 2 ?

i have NFB-11.28 and i wan't to buy my endgame Dac and i have THX 789 in the way and idk what should i buy Chord Qutest or Hugo 2 or Adi-2 dac.

what i need is natural sound with great separation and flat response and not loosing anything in the song.

the features in ADI-2 dac is the best but what about the main reason for me " the sound " ?

my headphones is LCD-X and HD6XX and AKG K7XX and my eyes on HD800S.

so what do you think guys ?

and thank you for the help i really appreciate that.


----------



## adeseaso

Both are great but sound different. Thus I think you simply have to demo yourself if you want to make sure you're making the right decision for you.


----------



## mixman

My thought is if I want a Chord upgrade to my RME, I will move to the TT2 at least.


----------



## 36aMAN

adeseaso said:


> Both are great but sound different. Thus I think you simply have to demo yourself if you want to make sure you're making the right decision for you.



the problem that i have is i can't demo anything because in my country we have none of that, so i have to buy it and then try it.

and i wan't someone who did try them and got some thoughts.



mixman said:


> My thought is if I want a Chord upgrade to my RME, I will move to the TT2 at least.



you mean that qutest and hugo 2 not better then adi-2 and not even worth more money ?

i'm talking about sound quality


----------



## mixman

36aMAN said:


> the problem that i have is i can't demo anything because in my country we have none of that, so i have to buy it and then try it.
> 
> and i wan't someone who did try them and got some thoughts.
> 
> ...


Not a Chord expert, but why get a Hugo 2 with the Qutest? The Hugo is more known for its DAC, than it’s amp. Just get the Hugo if that’s the case. If you are doing a Hugo and Qutest just save and get a TT2.


----------



## 36aMAN

mixman said:


> Not a Chord expert, but why get a Hugo 2 with the Qutest? The Hugo is more known for its DAC, than it’s amp. Just get the Hugo if that’s the case. If you are doing a Hugo and Qutest just save and get a TT2.



you got me wrong i mean qutest or hugo 2 not the two togather.

if you think about it why two when they are the same but the Qutest without amp and Bluetooth.


----------



## mixman

36aMAN said:


> you got me wrong i mean qutest or hugo 2 not the two togather.
> 
> if you think about it why two when they are the same but the Qutest without amp and Bluetooth.


Yeah that's what I was trying to say. Some here I believe have owned both the Hugo and RME, maybe they will chime in.


----------



## Hellraiser86

36aMAN said:


> hey guys.
> 
> does anyone compere RME ADI-2 DAC with Chord Qutest or Hugo 2 ?
> 
> ...


I have the RME (the Pro Version) and the Hugo 2. I never heard the Qutest but some mentioned it sounds like the Hugo 2 but has no Amp stage. 
But back to what I can compare 
As for the DAC inside the both I prefer the ADI. It sounds more referent to me and I mostly use it for mastering work. It is a bit more balanced than the Chord. But the Hugo has more Punch and makes more fun to listen with it’s internal amp. The RME is already very good for a combo device but it sounds best in combination with a great external amp (for example like the Phonitor or V281). 
In my opinion, both are very good and I can’t say anything bad. 
But you have to consider that you can get the HiFi RME ADI DAC just for about 1k (in Germany) and the Hugo costs about 2.2K if bought new. In the end it’s also a question if you want just a single device (and no upgrade with external amps) just pick the Hugo. Otherwise buy the ADI and a big amp


----------



## 36aMAN (Aug 26, 2019)

Hellraiser86 said:


> I have the RME (the Pro Version) and the Hugo 2. I never heard the Qutest but some mentioned it sounds like the Hugo 2 but has no Amp stage.
> But back to what I can compare
> As for the DAC inside the both I prefer the ADI. It sounds more referent to me and I mostly use it for mastering work. It is a bit more balanced than the Chord. But the Hugo has more Punch and makes more fun to listen with it’s internal amp. The RME is already very good for a combo device but it sounds best in combination with a great external amp (for example like the Phonitor or V281).
> In my opinion, both are very good and I can’t say anything bad.
> But you have to consider that you can get the HiFi RME ADI DAC just for about 1k (in Germany) and the Hugo costs about 2.2K if bought new. In the end it’s also a question if you want just a single device (and no upgrade with external amps) just pick the Hugo. Otherwise buy the ADI and a big amp



can the "more Punch and more fun" be in ADI-2 with his great EQ ?

actually i have THX 789 amp in the way so i'm gonna add it to the Dac after i bought it.

what about the separation instruments ?

and i will buy the ADI-2 dac from RME shop for around 965$.

btw i'm ok with two device but not big device .

thank you for the help.


----------



## Hellraiser86

36aMAN said:


> can the "more Punch and more fun" be in ADI-2 with his great EQ ?
> 
> actually i have THX 789 amp in the way so i'm gonna add it to the Dac after i bought it.
> 
> ...


If you add an external amp I you can get the fun factor too. I never heard the 789 but many people praise it. And if the reviews are correct I would guess the pairing should be great. 
Soundstage wise the Hugo has a bit more depth but in terms of separation there are no big differences to me when used without crosstalk or extras. But the Hugo has definitely the best Crosstalk I have ever heard. 
If I were you I would go for the RME because of the big price difference and the fact, that you would use an external amp


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Hellraiser86 said:


> If you add an external amp I you can get the fun factor too. I never heard the 789 but many people praise it. And if the reviews are correct I would guess the pairing should be great.



I don't know about this... there are several posts about it from May/June above. Some say yes, it makes a difference, others say it doesn't really. Don't forget that the 789 is supposed to be clean, neutral, so it won't add any character, just provide more power. So if your headphones need more power than the ADI-2 provides in high-power mode (Hifiman Susvara?) there might be a reason to go for the 789, otherwise, for what seems to be like marginal improvement at best, why add a box and more cables to an already great setup?

Disclosure - I did not try the 789, but based on some posts here I tried the Gilmore Lite Mk2 with the ADI-2. Wasn't for me. I prefer the ADI-2 amp.


----------



## lentoviolento

i have the rme driving a zmf atticus. by the next week i will try it with some audezes etc
the only benefit you get by buying a powerful amp is that you can drive the usual suspects (he6, susvara etc).
rme amp section is as good as any hi end SS , with the benefit of digital volume and remote in a box that is very tiny costing 995.
not a fan of chord as i think that their price tags are doped and even the design suck lol, mojo was cute though but still.. doesn't worth 490euros imho.
also, i always read here on headfi as in other forums about people using top dollar equipment to drive headphones that would need a dfr at max..
if you want to really find something slightly different (different not better) try some otl amp, or get some kick ass headphone.


----------



## Mr B1

To me, the RME headphone out sounds pretty flat, lifeless, dry, boring .. So I wouldn't run it without an amp now - unless you're after portability. It's not that the RME is bad.. but the 'lifeless' thing just kills the reason why I listen to music in the first place. Anyway, I also started out with just the RME but found amping to make quite the difference.

On the *Gilmore *- I didn't like the Gilmore mk2 enough and sold it - yet to me it sounded better than the RME. The Gilmore has a somewhat dark sound character, so it doesn't go with all headphones (Aeon Flow Closed, yes - Aeon Open or LCD2C, no)...just mind the pairing with the headphone by itself. 

Just to be sure, I did a *quick A/B/C listening* with Ether 2 and Verum 1 headphone on RME vs tube amp vs Violectric, and the differences are pretty consistent: with both amps voices comes alive, have the magic that keeps me listening and sound more natural. Everything is more lively. Bass is more defined and textured. Less metalic harshness in hi hats. Detail remains about the same. There's quite a bit more depth / space around voices and instruments. The background is also blacker...


----------



## lentoviolento

Mr B1 said:


> To me, the RME headphone out sounds pretty flat, lifeless, dry, boring .. So I wouldn't run it without an amp now - unless you're after portability. It's not that the RME is bad.. but the 'lifeless' thing just kills the reason why I listen to music in the first place. Anyway, I also started out with just the RME but found amping to make quite the difference.
> 
> On the *Gilmore *- I didn't like the Gilmore mk2 enough and sold it - yet to me it sounded better than the RME. The Gilmore has a somewhat dark sound character, so it doesn't go with all headphones (Aeon Flow Closed, yes - Aeon Open or LCD2C, no)...just mind the pairing with the headphone by itself.
> 
> Just to be sure, I did a *quick A/B/C listening* with Ether 2 and Verum 1 headphone on RME vs tube amp vs Violectric, and the differences are pretty consistent: with both amps voices comes alive, have the magic that keeps me listening and sound more natural. Everything is more lively. Bass is more defined and textured. Less metalic harshness in hi hats. Detail remains about the same. There's quite a bit more depth / space around voices and instruments. The background is also blacker...



It is so true that in this hobby you have to try. It is the only way. 
For example, i found the ether 2 lifeless comparing to aeolus at half the cost.. Also i had vio 200 and sold it because it was the most soft amp i had, and with an unbalanced source was pretty useless..


----------



## Mr B1 (Aug 27, 2019)

lentoviolento said:


> It is so true that in this hobby you have to try. It is the only way.
> For example, i found the ether 2 lifeless comparing to aeolus at half the cost.. Also i had vio 200 and sold it because it was the most soft amp i had, and with an unbalanced source was pretty useless..


Interesting findings.. thanks for sharing! I may just follow your path there - I really like to try that particular ZMF! I was lucky to get the E2 for under the price of the Aeolus.. so had to try it.

With the E2 - its not a Verum1 in liveliness and it sounded pretty bad just out of the box.. but some of it is frequence response..I boosted 4-12Khz by about 6db now and that did away with a lot of the Ether 2's lifelessness  On the flip side, the E2 has quite a bit of very seductive not-in-your-face detail / plankton, and it especially does well with my tube amp. Will give it more time before pulling the trigger on a ZMF...


----------



## lentoviolento

I don't know verum and your tube amp, but tubes to me are the only way to get something to spice up things after a while in this hobby. 
Usually i dont eq hps.. But from what you say, you need some zmfs in your life... Maybe some auteur or verite.. Aeolus to me has the best price/performance ratio in the hobby. Drive it with an otl and whatever dac you like, and you are at the end of the road


----------



## Arniesb

Mr B1 said:


> To me, the RME headphone out sounds pretty flat, lifeless, dry, boring .. So I wouldn't run it without an amp now - unless you're after portability. It's not that the RME is bad.. but the 'lifeless' thing just kills the reason why I listen to music in the first place. Anyway, I also started out with just the RME but found amping to make quite the difference.
> 
> On the *Gilmore *- I didn't like the Gilmore mk2 enough and sold it - yet to me it sounded better than the RME. The Gilmore has a somewhat dark sound character, so it doesn't go with all headphones (Aeon Flow Closed, yes - Aeon Open or LCD2C, no)...just mind the pairing with the headphone by itself.
> 
> Just to be sure, I did a *quick A/B/C listening* with Ether 2 and Verum 1 headphone on RME vs tube amp vs Violectric, and the differences are pretty consistent: with both amps voices comes alive, have the magic that keeps me listening and sound more natural. Everything is more lively. Bass is more defined and textured. Less metalic harshness in hi hats. Detail remains about the same. There's quite a bit more depth / space around voices and instruments. The background is also blacker...


"flat, lifeless, dry, boring"
lame power supply immediatly comes to mind.
This is a clear description of poor power supply design.
People complain about chord amps sound... Guess what can be culprit?


----------



## Hellraiser86

CaptainFantastic said:


> I don't know about this... there are several posts about it from May/June above. Some say yes, it makes a difference, others say it doesn't really. Don't forget that the 789 is supposed to be clean, neutral, so it won't add any character, just provide more power. So if your headphones need more power than the ADI-2 provides in high-power mode (Hifiman Susvara?) there might be a reason to go for the 789, otherwise, for what seems to be like marginal improvement at best, why add a box and more cables to an already great setup?
> 
> Disclosure - I did not try the 789, but based on some posts here I tried the Gilmore Lite Mk2 with the ADI-2. Wasn't for me. I prefer the ADI-2 amp.


I haven’t tried the 789 as I mentioned as well. But the general impression on head fi are really good. 
But what I said is he should go for the ADI with an Amp like V281 or Phonitor (just as an because tried these 2 and will buy one of them this year). The internal amp of the RME is not bad don’t get me wrong. But there is always improvement with all devices out there (even Chord Dave) and the internal amp is (in comparison to the Hugo 2 - and I say for me because it’s always subjective) the „weakness“. In the best case you always compare for yourself but that’s unfortunate not possible for the most of us. 
So I can just give my impressions. 
Maybe there has someone else an intensive listen (2 weeks up) with these both and some different headphones and the combination of such external amps, too. If so please share your impression (would be awesome to hear).


----------



## mixman

I have the 789 and while in many ways it is an improvement on the RME’s internal amp, some ways it is not. The 789 has more air, better soundstage and is more dynamic. I feel the RME amp is more a little brighter and a touch more resolution. I have tried the liquid platinum, which was about equal to the 789, not really better. Might give it a try again and do more tube rolling. My next stop is either a used iCan Pro or a GSX mini. Those are the amps that it will take to get a true improvement over the either the 789 or RME.


----------



## Christoph (Aug 27, 2019)

Has anybody compared either the RME ADI-2 DAC or the RME ADI-2 PRO with the Benchmark DAC3?

I'm not interested in the amp part, just in the pure DAC functionality.


----------



## lentoviolento

Gsx mini or benchmark hpa4 could be the SS endgame for every one peace of mind probably.. 
But until now, an rme headphone out can do the trick at a lower cost. 
We dont want someone to put a gun to our head and try us in a blind test though.....


----------



## Hellraiser86

If you’re speaking of endgame just consider the big headamp gsx mk2, the violectric v281, spl phonitor x, the nimbus 4+ and xiaudio formula s as well as the benchmark hpa4. These are all the best ss amps you can buy (at least known to me )


----------



## mixman

Hellraiser86 said:


> If you’re speaking of endgame just consider the big headamp gsx mk2, the violectric v281, spl phonitor x, the nimbus 4+ and xiaudio formula s as well as the benchmark hpa4. These are all the best ss amps you can buy (at least known to me )


Well in my case not looking for an endgame......if there is one, but just a clearly better amp than what I already have.


----------



## lentoviolento

Christoph said:


> Has anybody compared either the RME ADI-2 DAC or the RME ADI-2 PRO with the Benchmark DAC3?
> 
> I'm not interested in the amp part, just in the pure DAC functionality.



maybe on audiosciencereview someone had compared them. also with mytek


----------



## lentoviolento

mixman said:


> Well in my case not looking for an endgame......if there is one, but just a clearly better amp than what I already have.





mixman said:


> Well in my case not looking for an endgame......if there is one, but just a clearly better amp than what I already have.



if we are talking SS ,imho there isnt. unless you want to try one of the aforementioned... but still...


----------



## Christoph

lentoviolento said:


> maybe on audiosciencereview someone had compared them. also with mytek



Yes, there is indeed a promising sounding thread on audiosciencereview "Benchmark DAC3 vs RME ADI-2 DAC - Sound"
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/benchmark-dac3-vs-rme-adi-2-dac-sound.3888/
but the summary of this two pager is: "There is no audible difference between both"
which is a bit disappointing and not the statement i was looking for.

But maybe i should overthink my expectations.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Christoph said:


> Yes, there is indeed a promising sounding thread on audiosciencereview "Benchmark DAC3 vs RME ADI-2 DAC - Sound"
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/benchmark-dac3-vs-rme-adi-2-dac-sound.3888/
> but the summary of this two pager is: "There is no audible difference between both"
> which is a bit disappointing and not the statement i was looking for.
> ...



Why, why are you disappointed that the 1k unit you own sounds as good as a 2k+ DAC? Shouldn't we be happy about that and happily move on and listen to our music? It seems like an addiction for some of us, we must find something better every few months or we are disappointed. Well, what if the ADI-2 is good enough for the next 5 years, 10 years? More time to enjoy the music by not reading review after review and more money in the bank for everything else that is good in life.


----------



## adeseaso

CaptainFantastic said:


> Why, why are you disappointed that the 1k unit you own sounds as good as a 2k+ DAC? Shouldn't we be happy about that and happily move on and listen to our music? It seems like an addiction for some of us, we must find something better every few months or we are disappointed. Well, what if the ADI-2 is good enough for the next 5 years, 10 years? More time to enjoy the music by not reading review after review and more money in the bank for everything else that is good in life.



ASR is a very objectivist crowd who would not have it that two competently designed units sound differently. If you're asking about how DACs might differ in sound it's the last place to go to. 

And if you want good measurements at the best price, you're not getting the ADI-2. You'd get the Sabaj D5 as its measurements are significantly better at half the price.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

adeseaso said:


> ASR is a very objectivist crowd who would not have it that two competently designed units sound differently. If you're asking about how DACs might differ in sound it's the last place to go to.
> 
> And if you want good measurements at the best price, you're not getting the ADI-2. You'd get the Sabaj D5 as its measurements are significantly better at half the price.



OK, point well taken.

I don't see the Sabaj D5 in the graph posted above here at post 1452. Perhaps it's new or just not that popular. And of course the graph is not going to have everything.

In any case, the ADI-2 is one of the best measuring DACs according to that list. Now add all the other features I am getting with it, like EQ (and yes, I do have separate profiles saved for all of my headphones), but so much more, and it seems like a great value to me.


----------



## Christoph

CaptainFantastic said:


> Why, why are you disappointed that the 1k unit you own sounds as good as a 2k+ DAC? Shouldn't we be happy about that and happily move on and listen to our music? It seems like an addiction for some of us, we must find something better every few months or we are disappointed. Well, what if the ADI-2 is good enough for the next 5 years, 10 years? More time to enjoy the music by not reading review after review and more money in the bank for everything else that is good in life.



Yes, i know, basically thinking the same as i read the statement that the tester couldn't hear a difference between both.
Therefore i wrote "Maybe i should overthink my expectations", more exactly i should have wrote:

After thinking about it i'm happy to hear that the 1K RME ADI-2 DAC is fine and also much easier to get here in Germany (especially in condition used) as a Benchmark DAC 3 which only exists new in Europe and seems to be also very rare in condition used in the rest of the world.

So in general i agree with you @CaptainFantastic

I know that the differences between DACs are quite small compared to differences of headphones.
But i don't know if the tester isn't just unable to hear the difference because of his/her personal limitations or
if there is a common consensus (probably not because there are no other people who compared them both).
ASR i don't know very well, the measurements seems to be well made, but the sound perspective lacks at bit.


Talking about DAC chips, the chip in the ADI-2 isn't mentioned in the spec, probably its an FPGA.

Basically i'm wondering why there are not may DACs using the ES9038 Pro chip in dual mono mode.
The L.K.S. Audio MH-DA004 is one of the few ones i found. 
Havn't checked the Sabaj D5, it seems to use one ES9038 Pro.

I know, its not only about the main chip, the implementation is essential. And i not only judge from looking at the measurements or specs, however i admit that they influences me and help me to create a shortlist.


----------



## Hellraiser86

Christoph said:


> Yes, i know, basically thinking the same as i read the statement that the tester couldn't hear a difference between both.
> Therefore i wrote "Maybe i should overthink my expectations", more exactly i should have wrote:
> 
> After thinking about it i'm happy to hear that the 1K RME ADI-2 DAC is fine and also much easier to get here in Germany (especially in condition used) as a Benchmark DAC 3 which only exists new in Europe and seems to be also very rare in condition used in the rest of the world.
> ...


The DAC inside the ADI is a AKM4490


----------



## lentoviolento

I will probably sell mine in a few days. Cant afford to keep that money in a dac. So feel free to contact me if you are in the eu


----------



## Christoph

Hellraiser86 said:


> The DAC inside the ADI is a AKM4490



Thanks for your info. 
The RME ADI-2 Pro seems also to use the AKM4490, two of them according a review.


----------



## oqvist

I mean the sound of serious high end studio dacs should not differ much if any. If there is any big difference so it´s easy to hear one of them is completly faulty.

If I compare to my Audio GD Reference 9 which is a "musical" dac and is not even sold as absolute truth by audio-gd it still sounds very similar to the ADI-2. 
I liked the idea with all the tuning but I am so convenient so I hardly ever touch eq and phase warp timings and what not on the RME


----------



## Hellraiser86

Christoph said:


> Thanks for your info.
> The RME ADI-2 Pro seems also to use the AKM4490, two of them according a review.


Yes the Pro version has 2 of them. But they are not in Dual Mono. One DAC is for the Converter (Analog Chain) and one for the Headphone output. 
The Pro also was the predecessor to the DAC and they have the same internals (beside the A/D conversion).


----------



## UMN (Aug 28, 2019)

My setup:

Tidal > Bluesound Node2 > Wireworld Super Nova 6 Toslink 1M > RME ADI-2 DAC > Zu Wylde 0.5M IC > Woo Audio WA-6 (first generation with Sylvania VT231 & RCA 5U4G) > Massdrop  HD6XX.
RME settings; No EQ or loudness. The RME remote buttons are mapped to toggle between SD sharp, SD slow, Crossfeed 1, Crossfeed 2. I like the ability to easily switch the filter and crossfeed.
Airy, natural sound, with just enough body!


----------



## BurritoJustice

Hellraiser86 said:


> Yes the Pro version has 2 of them. But they are not in Dual Mono. One DAC is for the Converter (Analog Chain) and one for the Headphone output.
> The Pro also was the predecessor to the DAC and they have the same internals (beside the A/D conversion).



If you use the front outputs with standard TRS to XLR cables (used in pro audio) in "balanced phones" mode they use the AKM4490 in dual mono as line output. Allows +28dBu output voltage and a 6dB increase in SNR. It's in the manual, I can recommend it if you want to maximise the performance of your ADI-2 PRO.

Also minor nitpick the DAC has the same D/A stage as the Pro Fs, the original Pro is slightly different and (imperceptive worse) stage due to a small change in clock


----------



## Hellraiser86

BurritoJustice said:


> If you use the front outputs with standard TRS to XLR cables (used in pro audio) in "balanced phones" mode they use the AKM4490 in dual mono as line output. Allows +28dBu output voltage and a 6dB increase in SNR. It's in the manual, I can recommend it if you want to maximise the performance of your ADI-2 PRO.
> 
> Also minor nitpick the DAC has the same D/A stage as the Pro Fs, the original Pro is slightly different and (imperceptive worse) stage due to a small change in clock


Oh thank you. I have already forgotten the balanced function because I never used it. 
But Didn’t know about the Clock.
„You will never stop learning“ I guess


----------



## lentoviolento

Mine 's on sale fellas, one week old.


----------



## Christoph

lentoviolento said:


> Mine 's on sale fellas, one week old.


Why are you not satisfied with it ?

What are you using as a replacement ? The dragonfly mentioned in your footer ?


----------



## Arniesb

lentoviolento said:


> Mine 's on sale fellas, one week old.


Everyone talking how its so good yet so many people selling it... overhyped much?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Arniesb said:


> Everyone talking how its so good yet so many people selling it... overhyped much?



I don't think so. You always see the sales advertised, not the 95% of people who keep it. Plus, in this hobby many are always hungry for better and bigger gear, not a judgment on the item being sold often.

I have had mine since December and it is not going anywhere.


----------



## Arniesb

CaptainFantastic said:


> I don't think so. You always see the sales advertised, not the 95% of people who keep it. Plus, in this hobby many are always hungry for better and bigger gear, not a judgment on the item being sold often.
> 
> I have had mine since December and it is not going anywhere.


This comment wasnt for you. I asked seller...


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Arniesb said:


> This comment wasnt for you. I asked seller...



Apologies. I thought your "is this over-hyped much" question was general. Get a sample of one, it will be representative.


----------



## Arniesb

CaptainFantastic said:


> Apologies. I thought your "is this over-hyped much" question was general. Get a sample of one, it will be representative.


Just curious cause i see rme adi pros on sale more than other devices. Didnt see much Qutest on sale for example.
Hard to listen all the gear when you dont have much time to get audition.


----------



## acguitar84 (Aug 30, 2019)

Well, I'm not the seller either, but I love mine!


----------



## lentoviolento

Not at all. Actually i think it is the best all in one solution on the market price/performance ratio. 
The volume knob, the remote and many others things make it a must have if you have the money. I cant think at something better. Maybe a mytek because it is more powerful? But it goes for 2200 new... Excluding the susvara/hek/he6 and MAYBE lcd4, there is no hp it cant drive.for example i prefer the headphone out of rme than audio gd nfb1 balanced out... 
Unfortunatly i cant keep expensive gear in this moment of my life. But i still like to try them... 
But yes i will use my trusty dfr with my magni and i hope soon my little otl. 
For xmas i will buy another setup, enjoy it and than sell it and so on..


----------



## A-Nice-Cup-of-Clarity

Hello
 I currently own The Focal Clears, JH Laylas and soon to be ZMF Aeolus.
No I want to upgrade my DAC/AMP to either the
RME ADI-2 DAC
or
the Audio GD R-28.

Can someone compare the 2?
I know that they are very different, but I cant quite put my finger on where the differences lie and how big they are.


----------



## lentoviolento

A-Nice-Cup-of-Clarity said:


> Hello
> I currently own The Focal Clears, JH Laylas and soon to be ZMF Aeolus.
> No I want to upgrade my DAC/AMP to either the
> RME ADI-2 DAC
> ...



I tried aeolus with a lot of amps, among them there was nfb1 and a precision 1. It is not the same amp section as r28, but it was the worst.. It sucked the musicality out of everything. Dried the bass too much. I didn't try aeolus with rme but atticus, at the end has the same driver. And i love the match. Now i sold it, i will use an otl for now. But i won't buy audio gd gear anymore since i will buy other zmf hps. All that power is useless for almost every hp, they are ugly as hell, big, heavy... Too neutral sound imho. But They are cheap, the volume sistem is top notch, and they have the remote and they sound ok with lcd models. An amp that is wonderful with aeolus was lake people g100.


----------



## Soundwave76

Audio-GDs measure horribly in ASR reviews, so I would stay faaaaaaar away from them. RME is top of the class pro engineering from Germanu, which also measures exceptionally well.


----------



## oqvist

Soundwave76 said:


> Audio-GDs measure horribly in ASR reviews, so I would stay faaaaaaar away from them. RME is top of the class pro engineering from Germanu, which also measures exceptionally well.


Have they measured the reference 9 or other reference series? 

The dac19 and nfb10.32  I dont find as musical as the rme or reference 9 but different priceclass by a mile


----------



## Soundwave76

All measured Audio-gd devices fall into the worst quadrant. Doesn’t of course mean that all of their devices are poor, but the odds for that are higher.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ad-distortion-comparison-graph-for-dacs.4814/


----------



## oqvist

I guess wire with gain dacs have an advantage to get good distortion numbers? I cant say I hear distortion in my dacs. But they are cramed with a lot of stuff. My ref 9 have three psus


----------



## robm321

I'm looking to get one of these. Any special place I should order it from or does it matter?


----------



## Kato Danzo

I was really interested in snagging this DAC in the somewhat near future, but have stumbled upon a new(er?)/slightly downscaled version, the ADI-2 FS.  Aside from what is on the website, is there any ETA for this becoming available for purchase?  

I know it lacks a front panel LCD and menu display, but are there any other differences I should be aware of?  Ultimately is the ADI-2 DAC a better purchase now or should I wait?


----------



## sensenonno

Kato Danzo said:


> I was really interested in snagging this DAC in the somewhat near future, but have stumbled upon a new(er?)/slightly downscaled version, the ADI-2 FS.  Aside from what is on the website, is there any ETA for this becoming available for purchase?
> 
> I know it lacks a front panel LCD and menu display, but are there any other differences I should be aware of?  Ultimately is the ADI-2 DAC a better purchase now or should I wait?


ADI-2 FS does not have USB in , but it is an ADC  as well as a DAC. I would say it is more  a downscaled version of the ADI-2PRO but not of the ADI-2DAC.


----------



## makan

Novice question ( 1 week with the ADI-2 DAC).  Is it possible to pass through the line out (RCA and XLR) to another amp such that it is at a fixed volume to another amp and still use the RME's headphone output using the RME volume control to control the headphone output but not affect the line outs?  I think the answer is no as far as I can understand from the manual.  It looks like the volume control would control both the headphone and line out volumes if you want both those outs to be active at the same time.  Thanks.


----------



## TylersEclectic

robm321 said:


> I'm looking to get one of these. Any special place I should order it from or does it matter?


I heard from a little birdie that Headphones.com might be getting them for sale in the USA here in the near future...they have an awesome return policy and one of the best customer service experiences I’ve had so far. But if impatient I think they have other authorized dealers...but not sure as I got mine from a user on here...


----------



## emacs

I want through an exercise with this dac recently.  I was surprised that RME ADI-2 DAC does not sport Tidal in elusive mode with forced volume: Tidal stream must go through windows mixer where it gets re-sampled before it reaches this dac. That's bad news for those who's main source of music is Tidal stream. I wish I knew before purchase. Got it returned already. Sound wise it's really good indeed but nothing spectacular in my opinion. As a matter of fact pairing Arcam DAC with good Class A headphone amp outperformed RME headphone output to my ears.


----------



## TylersEclectic

emacs said:


> matter of fact



Strong words....do you have the sciences to back it? Or is this “your” “matter of fact”


----------



## Luckbad

emacs said:


> I want through an exercise with this dac recently.  I was surprised that RME ADI-2 DAC does not sport Tidal in elusive mode with forced volume: Tidal stream must go through windows mixer where it gets re-sampled before it reaches this dac. That's bad news for those who's main source of music is Tidal stream. I wish I knew before purchase. Got it returned already. Sound wise it's really good indeed but nothing spectacular in my opinion. As a matter of fact pairing Arcam DAC with good Class A headphone amp outperformed RME headphone output to my ears.



I use mine in TIDAL with exclusive mode and forced volume every single day. You did something wrong.


----------



## Soundwave76

emacs said:


> I was surprised that RME ADI-2 DAC does not sport Tidal in elusive mode with forced volume



Roon solves this issue.


----------



## Soundwave76

makan said:


> Novice question ( 1 week with the ADI-2 DAC).  Is it possible to pass through the line out (RCA and XLR) to another amp such that it is at a fixed volume to another amp and still use the RME's headphone output using the RME volume control to control the headphone output but not affect the line outs?  I think the answer is no as far as I can understand from the manual.  It looks like the volume control would control both the headphone and line out volumes if you want both those outs to be active at the same time.  Thanks.



I am pretty sure you can. I did this with the ADI-2 Pro when I had it. The manual will answer this questions.


----------



## sensenonno (Sep 14, 2019)

emacs said:


> I want through an exercise with this dac recently.  I was surprised that RME ADI-2 DAC does not sport Tidal in elusive mode with forced volume: Tidal stream must go through windows mixer where it gets re-sampled before it reaches this dac. That's bad news for those who's main source of music is Tidal stream. I wish I knew before purchase. Got it returned already. Sound wise it's really good indeed but nothing spectacular in my opinion. As a matter of fact pairing Arcam DAC with good Class A headphone amp outperformed RME headphone output to my ears.




Didnt you use the Tidal software?


https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...f-rme-adi-2-dac-and-headphone-amp.7546/page-4

https://inspiringheadphones.com/are-you-getting-the-best-out-of-tidal-hifi/


----------



## hornytoad

emacs said:


> I want through an exercise with this dac recently.  I was surprised that RME ADI-2 DAC does not sport Tidal in elusive mode with forced volume: Tidal stream must go through windows mixer where it gets re-sampled before it reaches this dac. That's bad news for those who's main source of music is Tidal stream. I wish I knew before purchase. Got it returned already. Sound wise it's really good indeed but nothing spectacular in my opinion. As a matter of fact pairing Arcam DAC with good Class A headphone amp outperformed RME headphone output to my ears.


Arcam Ir-dac outperformed the RME ? Ok lol


----------



## makan

Soundwave76 said:


> I am pretty sure you can. I did this with the ADI-2 Pro when I had it. The manual will answer this questions.


I did look at the manual, and it seems to indicate you are unable to. I thought maybe there is a work around.


----------



## emacs

Darthpool said:


> Strong words....do you have the sciences to back it? Or is this “your” “matter of fact”


Fair enough. Of course it's my ears that I am talking about, however I have also blind tested this on few of my friends. They did prefer the combination with external amp.


Soundwave76 said:


> Roon solves this issue.


Yes, roon does as well of other SW layes, however it is not acceptable at this price point.


sensenonno said:


> Didnt you use the Tidal software?
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...f-rme-adi-2-dac-and-headphone-amp.7546/page-4
> https://inspiringheadphones.com/are-you-getting-the-best-out-of-tidal-hifi/


Three other DACs that I have allow to push Tidal stream to them in WASAPI exclusive mode with no issues. iFi even accepts direct MQA stream. RME on the other hand does not, however it does allow Quobz to connect directly to it. It's the Tidal case that the RME guys have missed on their latest FW update... I asked support last week about when they do plan to update the FW again, but I have no answer yet.


hornytoad said:


> Arcam Ir-dac outperformed the RME ? Ok lol


No, Arcam did not outperformed RME, but Arcam+good headphone amp did outperform RME DAC + it's internal head amp (both it's outputs actually). I suppose that achieving subjectively more preferable results by pairing components does not come as a surprise, does it?


----------



## hornytoad

emacs said:


> Fair enough. Of course it's my ears that I am talking about, however I have also blind tested this on few of my friends. They did prefer the combination with external amp.
> 
> Yes, roon does as well of other SW layes, however it is not acceptable at this price point.
> 
> ...


Yeah ok lol. Did you change tthe RMe from low to high power?


----------



## emacs

Did you listen to the combination that I'm talking about?


----------



## hornytoad

emacs said:


> Did you listen to the combination that I'm talking about?


Did you level match the combination and blind test ?


----------



## Soundwave76

makan said:


> I did look at the manual, and it seems to indicate you are unable to. I thought maybe there is a work around.



Yes, indeed you could be right and this only works in the Pro version. What is your use though? I have normal headphones connected to the ADI-2 headphone output and Stax amp connected to the RCA line out. I can toggle them both easily via pressing the volume knob and the volume level is different for both outputs.


----------



## makan

Sometimes my daughter wants to listen with me, and so am trying to use the headphone out and also the line out to my Ifi pro ican, and so would like to have a fixed volume line out.  The challenge is using both at the same time, not toggling.


----------



## Luckbad

You can ask on the RME forum, but I'm pretty certain you can't use the headphone and line out simultaneously on the ADI-2 DAC because it only has one DAC chip. The ADI-2 Pro can do it because it has two chips.


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Luckbad said:


> You can ask on the RME forum, but I'm pretty certain you can't use the headphone and line out simultaneously on the ADI-2 DAC because it only has one DAC chip. The ADI-2 Pro can do it because it has two chips.



Oh, you can do both, it's just that you adjust volume for both as well. So either your ears will bleed from loud headphones or the line out will be too weak.


----------



## Phoniac

That's not the full truth. You can change the Reference Level for the rear outputs independent from the phones output. That gives you up to 18 dB of volume difference.


----------



## JerryLeeds (Sep 16, 2019)

Anyone compared the adi dac-2 with the new bifrost 2


----------



## Pondu

Hey guys, 

I am looking for an upgrade to my Concero HP. Because I plan to use its substitute with iems, the Hugo 2 which has the advantage of being portable, appeared like the perfect choice.

I got the chance to audition the Hugo 2 (30 to 45 minutes) connected to my phone via Bluethooth, and I have to admit it is a splendid device: it sounds more open, the bass extends further with more slam (and may be more body). I could hear details more easily. 
But I suspect the highs might be a problem for me, and I found the mids to seem a bit on the leaner side.

Because of that, I am hesitating with the ADI-2. I have read a few comparisons, but rather short.

Can possessors of both devices elaborate on the differences between them?


----------



## emacs

hornytoad said:


> Did you level match the combination and blind test ?


Yes


----------



## Soundwave76

Pondu said:


> Can possessors of both devices elaborate on the differences between them?



This is like comparing a kitchen knife to a swiss army knife with multiple blades - ADI-2 is so much more versatile unit. Soundwise both are stellar and in my opinon none of us can hear any differences between them. You should decide based on your needed use cases.


----------



## Tennessee

Guys can you tell me if it's safe for the device being always on (display is always off in my case)? Like Schiit DACs.
Second question why input:auto does not work with toslink - only coax and usb?


----------



## Anaz

Tennessee said:


> Guys can you tell me if it's safe for the device being always on (display is always off in my case)? Like Schiit DACs.
> Second question why input:auto does not work with toslink - only coax and usb?



As long as the ADI-2 is in a ventilated location where it won't overheat, I don't see why you couldn't leave it on all the time - however, unlike Schiit's R2R DACs you don't need to keep the ADI-2 "warm" so IMO it's pointless to keep the ADI-2 on all the time.


----------



## Tennessee

Anaz said:


> As long as the ADI-2 is in a ventilated location where it won't overheat, I don't see why you couldn't leave it on all the time - however, unlike Schiit's R2R DACs you don't need to keep the ADI-2 "warm" so IMO it's pointless to keep the ADI-2 on all the time.


It's just that I don't need to turn it on everytime when I play music, which is quite few times a day.
I don't use heaphones, so I'm never 'around' it : )


----------



## adeseaso

Use the remote?


----------



## Anaz (Sep 29, 2019)

Tennessee said:


> It's just that I don't need to turn it on everytime when I play music, which is quite few times a day.
> I don't use heaphones, so I'm never 'around' it : )



Nice set up.  ...It's a shame the ADI-2 doesn't have a trigger output/input.



adeseaso said:


> Use the remote?



To add to that, the ADI-2 works with Logitech Harmony universal remotes so you can control all your components with one universal remote control.


----------



## Tennessee (Sep 30, 2019)

adeseaso said:


> Use the remote?


That's what I'm doing, but I don't like it's cheapness and the fact that I need to look for it only for pressing one button.
But from now on I'll just leave it on all time.
Trigger input is exactly what I was yesterday hoping to find on my RME, but no luck.
I don't like Harmony remotes, they are big chunk of plastic. : )

Another question:
Do you hear the difference between toslink and coax input?
I do and don't know if it's the cable or port implementation.
From my experience usually it's the port, cables do not make big difference if they are good quality already.


----------



## captblaze

Tennessee said:


> That's what I'm doing, but I don't like it's cheapness and the fact that I need to look for it only for pressing one button.
> But from now on I'll just leave it on all time.
> Trigger input is exactly what I was yesterday hoping to find on my RME, but no luck.
> I don't like Harmony remotes, they are big chunk of plastic. : )
> ...



I prefer optical over coax on this DAC and only use USB for firmware upgrades and Digicheck


----------



## Tennessee

captblaze said:


> I prefer optical over coax on this DAC and only use USB for firmware upgrades and Digicheck


For me sound from optical is more "in your face", while coax and usb are more linear, which is the reason why I'm using RME in the first place.


----------



## Arniesb

Tennessee said:


> For me sound from optical is more "in your face", while coax and usb are more linear, which is the reason why I'm using RME in the first place.


Well USB decrapifiers make it sound more in your face too just like optical you say.
So maybe more forward presentation is more realistic and that could be because of noise removal.


----------



## mixman

I get the best sound, from my system via optical.


----------



## maszynista1987 (Oct 1, 2019)

I love how it plays 
I am thinking of open headphones, meze empyrean v zmf verite, which sound better to you with rme?


"sorry for the translator"


----------



## ttol

Any one come up with creative solutions to keep ADI-2 DAC in place? The thing is so light that it moves every time I adjust settings which is mildly annoying.


----------



## JerryLeeds

ttol said:


> Any one come up with creative solutions to keep ADI-2 DAC in place? The thing is so light that it moves every time I adjust settings which is mildly annoying.



Google Blu-Tack ...


----------



## robm321

I get the best sound with optical too. That said, replacing the included  USB cable with a properly shielded USB makes a significant difference.


----------



## maszynista1987

New Drivers  
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29322


----------



## Arniesb

robm321 said:


> I get the best sound with optical too. That said, replacing the included  USB cable with a properly shielded USB makes a significant difference.


In my book usb with decrapifier > optical > computer USB


----------



## mdelrossi

Tennessee said:


> That's what I'm doing, but I don't like it's cheapness and the fact that I need to look for it only for pressing one button.
> But from now on I'll just leave it on all time.
> Trigger input is exactly what I was yesterday hoping to find on my RME, but no luck.
> I don't like Harmony remotes, they are big chunk of plastic. : ).



Then just get the Harmony Hub and use the app on your tablet.


----------



## WildStyle-R11

I haven't really said anything much about the ADI 2 since I got it way back in april. I just love this cute little thing. It has replaced a lot. And changed a lot for me incidentally as well.

First my PC > CD Player > Loki > Oppo HA 1 changed to PC > ADI 2 > Oppo HA1... I was using my LCD2C at the time, needed that extra bit of bass boost with the loki. Used my CD player as a DAC not only for loki, but I absolutely hate Sabre DAC's, that just happens to be in the HA 1. Incidentally my SA8005 DAC is pretty good, so I just went with it.

In comparison the ADI 2 Just sounds so smooth and as it turns out the LCD2C doesn't need bass boost when you got a good DAC, go figure. But I started to mess around with all the headphones I have and other things. Since apparently a good DAC can make a difference.

One of my headphones X2, I originally dumped it, into the box of lost hopes and dreams. Treble too annoying, bass too muddy and muffled midrange is the short list of problems I had with the X2... But now Plugging it into ADI 2, HA 1 combo... Is this the same headphone? Highs Present, but not annoying in any way shape or form. Midrange has come back from the depths of hell and Bass is no longer a muddy mess? I'm listening and I can't believe how good the X2's sound. After a while of messing around, it was pretty much decided... My main headphone went from LCD2C to X2 and even the HA 1 was kicked to the curb. As ADI 2 AMP is plenty good on it's own and plenty power for my Headphones. So my setup now is pretty simple PC > ADI 2. Okay so maybe there is some speakers involved somewhere and a CD player, but it is still a LOT cleaner than with all that I had.

I personally like how the ADI 2 doesn't seem to alter the sound in any way shape or form, Like if I use other DAC / AMP's I tend to hear a certain characteristic or flavour. Like Sabre "Glare", I don't really know anything about it, but it sure seems annoying enough for me. If ADI 2 would have a characteristic I would probably describe it as smooth. And I love it for that, I can actually just listen and enjoy my headphones.

In any case, I hope you like my little story (Probably incoherently jumbled in many ways, because brain...). I Just remembered why I like it and since I haven't posted anything about it really. 
Reminded because I was thinking about the upcoming X3 which has dual entry, so balanced is possible, I was thinking What kind of AMP would I get? SPL Phonitor? Just thinking about the size... I am Happy with my ADI 2.


----------



## hornytoad

WildStyle-R11 said:


> I haven't really said anything much about the ADI 2 since I got it way back in april. I just love this cute little thing. It has replaced a lot. And changed a lot for me incidentally as well.
> 
> First my PC > CD Player > Loki > Oppo HA 1 changed to PC > ADI 2 > Oppo HA1... I was using my LCD2C at the time, needed that extra bit of bass boost with the loki. Used my CD player as a DAC not only for loki, but I absolutely hate Sabre DAC's, that just happens to be in the HA 1. Incidentally my SA8005 DAC is pretty good, so I just went with it.
> 
> ...


There isnt another dac for 1k that is better .None


----------



## fonna

anyone else really like this device with the HD800S? I harman EQ my HD800S using oratory1990's settings, and the amplifier in this does something extremely pleasant with the mids on the HD800S compared to even way more expensive amps ive heard, it doesn't have the same dynamics as say a Violectric V280 or Cayin iHA-6 but the vocals almost have this like "velvety" smooth quality to it that I cant find on other amps.


----------



## oqvist

fonna said:


> anyone else really like this device with the HD800S? I harman EQ my HD800S using oratory1990's settings, and the amplifier in this does something extremely pleasant with the mids on the HD800S compared to even way more expensive amps ive heard, it doesn't have the same dynamics as say a Violectric V280 or Cayin iHA-6 but the vocals almost have this like "velvety" smooth quality to it that I cant find on other amps.


What settings is that? Would like to try. Not terribly impressed without eq


----------



## Gus141

fonna said:


> anyone else really like this device with the HD800S? I harman EQ my HD800S using oratory1990's settings, and the amplifier in this does something extremely pleasant with the mids on the HD800S compared to even way more expensive amps ive heard, it doesn't have the same dynamics as say a Violectric V280 or Cayin iHA-6 but the vocals almost have this like "velvety" smooth quality to it that I cant find on other amps.


I’m doing the same thing with Sony MDR-Z1R cans. To use your efficient wording, I Harman EQ my Z1Rs using Oratory1990’s settings too. I have to modify his recommendations since the ADI-2 only has 5 bands, but I really hit a sweet spot that I have been using for 8 months and still love. Every now and then I turn off EQ to see if I will like the Z1R without EQ, but I just love, to use your words again, the “velvety smooth quality” I can achieve with the PEQ settings on this awesome DAC.

Cheers
Gus


----------



## fonna

oqvist said:


> What settings is that? Would like to try. Not terribly impressed without eq



here is his list of EQ's: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index

here is the HD800S: EQ https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsp3jucy5lsty0m/Sennheiser HD800S.pdf?dl=0


----------



## oqvist

Thanks. Will see if I can manage to do them


----------



## makan

Anyone have a preferred eq setting on the rme for lcd-4. I see some searching around but are for 10 bands vs 5. Thanks.


----------



## bryceu

fonna said:


> here is his list of EQ's: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index
> 
> here is the HD800S: EQ https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsp3jucy5lsty0m/Sennheiser HD800S.pdf?dl=0


Hey thanks for sharing this EQ list. 

I gave up EQing a while back as I didn't find it neccesary and enjoyed the flavor my various headphones brought. However I thought I'd give it a go again for fun.

 I'm listening to my Andromedas out of the ADI-2 DAC Phones Out with the Harmon 2017 EQ presets applied through Equalizer APO... Finding it very enjoyable. The EQ adds nice sub-bass boost and cuts out some unnecessary warmth, also adds more sharpness/accuracy to the stage and added smoothness in the highs. 

Cheers.


----------



## Nostoi

Has anyone used the ADI-2 with the Rupert Neve Headphone Amp? I'm curious to try it, but would like to know how much it brings to the picture. Thanks.


----------



## betula

I am about to recommend a system around £1000 for someone. Even though I have never heard the RME-ADI2, I read a lot of good things about it and it is probably well worth the money for what it is. It would not be connected to an amp, only used as a standalone unit for headphone listening.
I am very much into Chord sound at all price range, to me the holographic space and the natural sound Chord DACs produce is unique. I prefer the Mojo to the iDSD BL, and my best DAC of choice around £1000 was my Qutest. 
I read the thread and read reviews, so it seems the RME-ADI2 is pretty much on Hugo2's level with a slight preference here or there. I find that pretty impressive. 
I was going to suggest a secondhand Hugo2 to my friend or a secondhand Qutest with a relatively good amp around £4-500, but this RME-ADI2 keeps coming up as a standalone unit. Transparency, resolution and neutrality is the aim. 
On another note, has anyone heard both the ADI2 and the Chord TT2? I know, it is not a fair comparison, but I'd be interested to hear how much the SQ loss is compared to a TOTL product like the TT2.
Any thoughts or input is welcome. Thanks.


----------



## OctavianH

Question: Is it possible to use the ADI-2 DAC with both balanced / unbalanced outputs and just select which one to be active? For example to link a headphone amp to the balanced ones and some active PC speakers to the unbalanced? And then just switch between them? Anyone tried this scenario? Thanks!


----------



## Quinto (Jan 30, 2020)

.


----------



## Quinto

OctavianH said:


> Question: Is it possible to use the ADI-2 DAC with both balanced / unbalanced outputs and just select which one to be active? For example to link a headphone amp to the balanced ones and some active PC speakers to the unbalanced? And then just switch between them? Anyone tried this scenario? Thanks!



just switch m8..


----------



## Docharsha89

betula said:


> I am about to recommend a system around £1000 for someone. Even though I have never heard the RME-ADI2, I read a lot of good things about it and it is probably well worth the money for what it is. It would not be connected to an amp, only used as a standalone unit for headphone listening.
> I am very much into Chord sound at all price range, to me the holographic space and the natural sound Chord DACs produce is unique. I prefer the Mojo to the iDSD BL, and my best DAC of choice around £1000 was my Qutest.
> I read the thread and read reviews, so it seems the RME-ADI2 is pretty much on Hugo2's level with a slight preference here or there. I find that pretty impressive.
> I was going to suggest a secondhand Hugo2 to my friend or a secondhand Qutest with a relatively good amp around £4-500, but this RME-ADI2 keeps coming up as a standalone unit. Transparency, resolution and neutrality is the aim.
> ...


Hi,
I bought a Hugo 2 recently. I had the RME ADI-2 DAC, which I sold a month ago. Got the Hugo 2 and never looked back. In my humble opinion, the RME isn't even close to what the Hugo 2 can do. I mean, yes, RME is transparent, clean, extends well at both ends and has a wide variety of connection options, So it's a versatile unit. But speaking of Sound quality alone, I would rate it about 7/10, whereas the Hugo 2 is an easy 9.5/10. If you are used to transparent, a bit analytical sounding equipment before, you'll feel right at home with the RME. I had a Mojo before the RME, I too fell in love with the CHORD sound, and couldn't live with any other device.


----------



## betula

Docharsha89 said:


> Hi,
> I bought a Hugo 2 recently. I had the RME ADI-2 DAC, which I sold a month ago. Got the Hugo 2 and never looked back. In my humble opinion, the RME isn't even close to what the Hugo 2 can do. I mean, yes, RME is transparent, clean, extends well at both ends and has a wide variety of connection options, So it's a versatile unit. But speaking of Sound quality alone, I would rate it about 7/10, whereas the Hugo 2 is an easy 9.5/10. If you are used to transparent, a bit analytical sounding equipment before, you'll feel right at home with the RME. I had a Mojo before the RME, I too fell in love with the CHORD sound, and couldn't live with any other device.


That was my gut feeling regardless the several comments on preferring the ADI2 to H2 in this thread... Sure the ADI2 is a very versatile DAC with all the EQ options, but for someone who is looking for simplicity and pure sq without the intention of EQ-ing, H2 might be the better choice then. I just needed some confirmation.


----------



## mixman

Docharsha89 said:


> Hi,
> I bought a Hugo 2 recently. I had the RME ADI-2 DAC, which I sold a month ago. Got the Hugo 2 and never looked back. In my humble opinion, the RME isn't even close to what the Hugo 2 can do. I mean, yes, RME is transparent, clean, extends well at both ends and has a wide variety of connection options, So it's a versatile unit. But speaking of Sound quality alone, I would rate it about 7/10, whereas the Hugo 2 is an easy 9.5/10. If you are used to transparent, a bit analytical sounding equipment before, you'll feel right at home with the RME. I had a Mojo before the RME, I too fell in love with the CHORD sound, and couldn't live with any other device.


Not discounting your opinion, but I have heard from several others including this review, that states the SQ is more of a swap. I believe there are some former Hugo 2 owners that were on this thread. For me no doubt if I leave the RME I will go all the way to a TT2 or similar performance, I think the Hugo or Qutest would just be a trade off.


----------



## betula

mixman said:


> Not discounting your opinion, but I have heard from several others including this review, that states the SQ is more of a swap. I believe there are some former Hugo 2 owners that were on this thread. For me no doubt if I leave the RME I will go all the way to a TT2 or similar performance, I think the Hugo or Qutest would just be a trade off.


Perhaps not a trade off but a side grade depending on preference?
I know a lot of folks prefer the iFi iDSD BL to the Mojo, because the BL has a thicker bass and a more entertaining sound. The Mojo however at least to my ears has more soundstage depth (3D) and a more realistic sound. So my preference is Mojo.
I have got a feeling my preference would be the same with the ADI2 vs H2, but I haven't heard the ADI2 so I can't be sure. 
And I am also interested in hearing comments on ADI2 vs TT2.


----------



## mixman

betula said:


> Perhaps not a trade off but a side grade depending on preference?
> I know a lot of folks prefer the iFi iDSD BL to the Mojo, because the BL has a thicker bass and a more entertaining sound. The Mojo however at least to my ears has more soundstage depth (3D) and a more realistic sound. So my preference is Mojo.
> I have got a feeling my preference would be the same with the ADI2 vs H2, but I haven't heard the ADI2 so I can't be sure.
> And I am also interested in hearing comments on ADI2 vs TT2.


Yeah for me the Mojo vs IFI BL was the opposite, The thought the BL was more realistic in that the Mojo was way too warm nor does it have close to the dynamics of the BL. I would only buy a Mojo if i needed something capable and tiny for portable use.

I do suspect the TT2 is a lot more capable, but it may not be everyone's sound since some prefer more of an R2R DAC type of sound.


----------



## Quinto

My ADI didn't sound that great the first say 100 or more hours..it had a slight shimmer, they sound clearer now.great definition


----------



## blockchainhero

Hmm, given that DACs have the explicit goal of reproducing the signal as “true-to-source” as possible, it follows that competently engineered DACs will all sound alike. Objective measurements of the RME show it’s audibly transparent so I’m of the opinion that any improvements are likely due to “price placebo”.


----------



## betula

mixman said:


> Yeah for me the Mojo vs IFI BL was the opposite, The thought the BL was more realistic in that the Mojo was way too warm nor does it have close to the dynamics of the BL. I would only buy a Mojo if i needed something capable and tiny for portable use.
> 
> I do suspect the TT2 is a lot more capable, but it may not be everyone's sound since some prefer more of an R2R DAC type of sound.


Strange, to me the BL sounded a bit 'cinema sound system-like'. Mojo had more natural voices and instruments, although it sounded a bit thinner. 
TT2 is all about space, insight, transparency and ultimate realism. R2R is not my cup of tea.


----------



## Anaz

betula said:


> That was my gut feeling regardless the several comments on preferring the ADI2 to H2 in this thread... Sure the ADI2 is a very versatile DAC with all the EQ options, but for someone who is looking for simplicity and pure sq without the intention of EQ-ing, H2 might be the better choice then. I just needed some confirmation.



I haven't heard a H2, but my ranking of the following, as DACs, is: Qutest > ADI-2 > Mojo. Price being equal, and if the H2 sounds like the Qutest, I would get it over the ADI-2.

If you want a lower cost option, I'd recommend a Mojo and ARCAM rHead amp which IMO have amazing synergy.


----------



## Docharsha89

betula said:


> Strange, to me the BL sounded a bit 'cinema sound system-like'. Mojo had more natural voices and instruments, although it sounded a bit thinner.
> TT2 is all about space, insight, transparency and ultimate realism. R2R is not my cup of tea.


Is the TT2 a huge jump from H2 in terms of pure SQ ? Will it be similar to moving from a Mojo to H2 ?


----------



## betula

Docharsha89 said:


> Is the TT2 a huge jump from H2 in terms of pure SQ ? Will it be similar to moving from a Mojo to H2 ?


To me the TT2 is Mojo's tonality and H2's technicality multiplied by 5. Compared to H2 the sound is more spacious, 3D imaging is even better, the sound is meatier and even more natural/realistic. It is an expensive piece of kit and H2 is already a great DAC, but TT2 for me is another level. 
But we are derailing the thread here...


----------



## emacs (Oct 25, 2019)

blockchainhero said:


> Hmm, given that DACs have the explicit goal of reproducing the signal as “true-to-source” as possible, it follows that competently engineered DACs will all sound alike. Objective measurements of the RME show it’s audibly transparent so I’m of the opinion that any improvements are likely due to “price placebo”.


Even more so, consider this : RME is a DAC + DSP so it's hard to argue that its sound is worth its price. If it would have been the case then the DSP would be there for free which is bollocks. Unless the DSP makes it's sound? But then how could it be transparent? It's not easy, is it . I guess the value of this thing is in customization, not pure SQ. That's grand, nothing wrong with it. Having said that, one could make an argument that something like Mytek Liberty et al. has SQ worth its money as it is a pure bare-bone DAC which neither has a DSP nor even a display.


----------



## blockchainhero

emacs said:


> Even more so, consider this : RME is a DAC + DSP so it's hard to argue that its sound is worth its price. If it would have been the case then the DSP would be there for free which is bollocks. Unless the DSP makes it's sound? But then how could it be transparent? It's not easy, is it . I guess the value of this thing is in customization, not pure SQ. That's grand, nothing wrong with it. Having said that, one could make an argument that something like Mytek Liberty et al. has SQ worth its money as it is a pure bare-bone DAC which neither has a DSP nor even a display.



I’m not sure that makes any sense, particularly in light of the objective measurements for the RME over on ASR prove it’s transparent


----------



## CaptainFantastic

blockchainhero said:


> I’m not sure that makes any sense, particularly in light of the objective measurements for the RME over on ASR prove it’s transparent



I agree. In this hobby we cannot say that something that costs 1500 eur is 50% better in terms of sound quality than something that costs 1000 eur, or 10% or 5%. It could be at the same level of SQ, worse, it could be just the brand name, marketing strategy, that makes it more expensive, etc. There is no official measurement system deciding prices (like say the speed of PC graphic cards = price level). If there would be something, based on measurements the ADI-2 is somewhere at the top based on the list that was posted above. Also above, someone made the point that the ADI-2 was made by RME for the pro market where price inflation is much lower than in the audiophile market.


----------



## Docharsha89

betula said:


> To me the TT2 is Mojo's tonality and H2's technicality multiplied by 5. Compared to H2 the sound is more spacious, 3D imaging is even better, the sound is meatier and even more natural/realistic. It is an expensive piece of kit and H2 is already a great DAC, but TT2 for me is another level.
> But we are derailing the thread here...


Thanks


----------



## Hellraiser86

I have the Hugo2 and the ADI-2. both are great products and sound great. 
But both sound very different to me. The RME f.e. sounds cleaner more reference like. The Hugo in comparison more musical.
Hugo has also a punchier sound but on the other side more background noise with sensitive InEars. 
In fact they are so different that I kept them both for different listening purposes.


----------



## OctavianH

Anyone using RME ADI-2 DAC with a linear power supply? Any differences?


----------



## chrisdrop

OctavianH said:


> Anyone using RME ADI-2 DAC with a linear power supply? Any differences?


Googling based on your question (I have an RME ADI-2 DAC + am interested in power quality) 
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28734


----------



## WolfP

Hi all, I currently use a Violectric V220 amplifier. Anyone can tell me how is the RME headphone amplifier compared to Violectric? Is the sound quality good enough?

Also...I use Grado GH2 headphones, what EQ curves could I use?


----------



## PointyFox (Oct 31, 2019)

WolfP said:


> Hi all, I currently use a Violectric V220 amplifier. Anyone can tell me how is the RME headphone amplifier compared to Violectric? Is the sound quality good enough?
> 
> Also...I use Grado GH2 headphones, what EQ curves could I use?



Well for one transformer hum won't be audible on the RME as it is on the Violectric. The RME also has dozens of features while the Violectric just amplifies. The sound quality of the RME far exceeds where humans would be capable of discerning as a difference. You can use any EQ curve you want.


----------



## Tennessee (Nov 1, 2019)

Quinto said:


> Boy..the ADI-2 beats my Audio-GD NOS11 on my new Harbeth SHL5+ 40th  speakers.. The Audio GD is still great with my HD800S..(used them on adi2-V280 combi which was great though not very musical)


Absolute best I ever heard with my Harbeth SHL5+ was Audiobyte Black Dragon DAC - presentation and 3D starting from 1 cm before your nose and ending well beyond front wall and ceiling, every instrument perfectly placed and separated...
Adi 2 plays good but the presentation is thin and ONLY on the speaker line, so nowhere near interesting. Separation and positioning is very average compared to Gungnir MB or Black Dragon.


----------



## maszynista1987 (Nov 10, 2019)

Balance cable for Diana Abyss 
RME is very good!


----------



## Leviathant

Hellraiser86 said:


> I have the Hugo2 and the ADI-2. both are great products and sound great.
> But both sound very different to me. The RME f.e. sounds cleaner more reference like. The Hugo in comparison more musical.
> Hugo has also a punchier sound but on the other side more background noise with sensitive InEars.
> In fact they are so different that I kept them both for different listening purposes.



Would you say that you can hear much difference between the two in terms of IEM listening in general? Like, do you find Hugo2 detracts from the music more than the ‘inky-black’ background in the ADI-2? Or is it negligible?  

I’ve got a Hugo2 currently (briefly had a ADI-2 before but didn’t have my IEMs then)... but almost feel I don’t need it for just IEMs.

Got me thinking whether I could sell the Hugo2 and replace with an ADI-2 again and use the residual funds for something else (new headphones etc). This would be on the proviso that chasing the black background is worth it.

Third option is I have neither the Hugo2 nor ADI-2 and just use the IEMs with my portable setup (NW-ZX2). Hmm..


----------



## oqvist

I am curious if anyone here has the d7200 and played with eq? Dont know how valid its with driver variation byt would be fun to try.


----------



## Hellraiser86

Leviathant said:


> Would you say that you can hear much difference between the two in terms of IEM listening in general? Like, do you find Hugo2 detracts from the music more than the ‘inky-black’ background in the ADI-2? Or is it negligible?
> 
> I’ve got a Hugo2 currently (briefly had a ADI-2 before but didn’t have my IEMs then)... but almost feel I don’t need it for just IEMs.
> 
> ...



Soundwise I really prefer the Hugo with my IEM‘s (for my Headphones I mostly prefer the ADI). But the hiss is really audible with my Solaris and I need to use an ifi IEMatch. 
The quality of both is on the same level. It’s more of a decision in taste if you can deal with the hiss.


----------



## Leviathant

Hellraiser86 said:


> Soundwise I really prefer the Hugo with my IEM‘s (for my Headphones I mostly prefer the ADI). But the hiss is really audible with my Solaris and I need to use an ifi IEMatch.
> The quality of both is on the same level. It’s more of a decision in taste if you can deal with the hiss.



Thanks. I was listening to my Hugo2 and U12t IEMs again last night. They really do sound great together. So clean, detailed and musical. Not going to mess with that combo, other than maybe add a small tube hybrid amp to add a bit of colouration from time to time perhaps.


----------



## Collusion[FIN]

There seems to be a new revision of the ADI-2 DAC: https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html

The new version incorporates the newer AK4493 dac chip from AKM and boasts with slightly better specifications (see them below). Also, the remote controller has been updated and it now has more buttons. No idea at this point when is this newer revision going to roll out, or is it already happening.



Spoiler



NEW SPECIFICATIONS
Output level switchable +19 dBu, +13 dBu, +7 dBu, +1 dBu @ 0 dBFS
Signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) @ +7/+13/+19 dBu: 120 dB RMS unweighted, 123 dBA
Signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) @ +1 dBu: 117 dB RMS unweighted, 120 dBA
Frequency response @ 44.1 kHz, -0.1 dB: 0 Hz – 20.2 kHz
Frequency response @ 96 kHz, -0.5 dB: 0 Hz – 44.9 kHz
Frequency response @ 192 kHz, -1 dB: 0 Hz – 88 kHz
Frequency response @ 384 kHz, -1 dB: 0 Hz – 115 kHz
Frequency response @ 768 kHz, -3 dB: 0 Hz – 109 kHz
THD @ 0 dBFS: < -120 dB, 0.0001 %
THD+N @ 0 dBFS: -117 dB, 0.00014 %
THD @ -3 dBFS: -116 dB, 0.00016 %
Channel separation: > 120 dB
Output impedance: 200 Ohm balanced, 100 Ohm unbalanced


OLD SPECIFICATIONS
Output level switchable +19 dBu, +13 dBu, +7 dBu, +1 dBu @ 0 dBFS
 Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) @ +7/+13/+19 dBu: 117 dB RMS unweighted, 120 dBA
 Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) @ +1 dBu: 115,4 dB RMS unweighted, 118,9 dBA
 Frequency response @ 44.1 kHz, -0.1 dB: 0 Hz  20.2 kHz
 Frequency response @ 96 kHz, -0.5 dB: 0 Hz  44.9 kHz
 Frequency response @ 192 kHz, -1 dB: 0 Hz  88 kHz
 Frequency response @ 384 kHz, -1 dB: 0 Hz  115 kHz
 Frequency response @ 768 kHz, -3 dB: 0 Hz  109 kHz
 THD @ -1 dBFS: -112 dB, 0.00025 %
 THD+N @ -1 dBFS: -110 dB, 0.00032 %
 THD @ -3 dBFS: -116 dB, 0.00016 %
 Channel separation: > 120 dB
 Output impedance: 200 Ohm balanced, 100 Ohm unbalanced


----------



## MagnusH

Yes, just read about it, the sonic differences are extremely subtle though from what I can read, so not worth it if you already got the ADI-2. I think the main reason was that they improved the support for custom remotes, and wanted a physical remote that better match the software, and also for selling purposes (the 4493 is a newer chip after all).

Judging from reviews and forum talk, this DAC has done very well, and this is a way to increase its lifespan. For us who already have the old version, this is good news since we will continue to get firmware updates and improvements for many years to come.


----------



## Cat Music

The point is now the price ... more expensive insurance


----------



## captblaze

Cat Music said:


> The point is now the price ... more expensive insurance


i'll add another variable age of the listener.

at my age my ears aren't getting any better, and my wallet cant keep up either. the 4490 version will do until it no longer processes 1's and 0's


----------



## makan

I wonder if we would be able to purchase the new remote separately?


----------



## wormsdriver (Nov 14, 2019)

makan said:


> I wonder if we would be able to purchase the new remote separately?


I believe it is (or will be?)

Edit: (Taken from the RME adi-2 product page)
_*"Note for owners of the previous remote*: the new MRC is also available separately as an accessory. It can be used with all ADI-2 DACs, even older ones, if they are equipped with the latest firmware (at least version *FPGA 27, DSP 33*)."_


----------



## Collusion[FIN]

It seems the new revision of ADI-2 DAC is already available from Thomann.de:

https://m.thomann.de/gb/rme_adi_2_dac_fs.htm


----------



## greyscale75

Not available to ship to USA. Hope to purchase one in the USA soon.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I just bought one Friday. Should be here in a day or two


----------



## Gus141

Anyone using an adapter to send AES/EBU into the coax input as described in the manual? I can’t find an XLR-to-RCA adapter with the pinout the manual describes. Does anyone have a link where I could buy one?

I might move up to the Pro fs since its breakout cable offers a true XLR connector for AES/EBU.


----------



## mhamel

Gus141 said:


> Anyone using an adapter to send AES/EBU into the coax input as described in the manual? I can’t find an XLR-to-RCA adapter with the pinout the manual describes. Does anyone have a link where I could buy one?



Gus,

Check out https://www.redco.com/ - they do custom cables for the pro audio market. I had them make an RCA->XLR adapter cable for my Dangerous Convert-2 DAC using Mogami cable. Reasonable pricing, too.

  -Mike


----------



## Gus141

mhamel said:


> Gus,
> 
> Check out https://www.redco.com/ - they do custom cables for the pro audio market. I had them make an RCA->XLR adapter cable for my Dangerous Convert-2 DAC using Mogami cable. Reasonable pricing, too.
> 
> -Mike


Awesome, thanks Mike! I’ll check them out.

Cheers,
Gus


----------



## bryceu

Cross-posting this here in case anyone is interested:

"For those who had been asking about RME ADI-2 DAC AMP portion vs THX 887, after some further blind testing + listening sessions + comparing:
The performance/difference between the two is easily identifiable.

The RME has a tighter stage and more forward delivery. The 887 has a larger, wider, more expansive, stage that makes the amp feel more powerful. To summarize this thought; Powerful because the brain is hearing the same volume from a source that feels further away, which equates to a more powerful source creating the sound.
The RME has more engaging mids. My biggest complaint about the 887 is the dull mids, I believe this to be a result of the bigger stage and the mids feeling further away. The mids of the 887 also possess less body than those from the RME AMP. This can be translated as the 887 is actually cleaner, or alternatively, it's drier in the mids.
The RME has more prominent bass, while the 887 is more precise/tight. This again can make the 887 feel dry, now in the bass, because it is simply so clean. I don't think the bass performance of the RME is bad on its own measure, but the 887 is simply faster and cleaner.
The 887 does separation and layering better than the RME, easily. The RME can feel congested at times while the 887 feels open, airy, and individual instruments are easier to pick out.
The 887 emphasizes treble better than the RME, not by increased volume/brightness, but rather via air and speed.
Both amps offer excellent detail and resolution, the RME pushing details a little more forward (think Focal Elex/Clear), with the 887 favoring dynamic range due to its larger stage and ability to properly place instruments/sounds further away from the listener (think ZMF Auteur, HD800s).
Overall the RME feels like the more engaging amp, and the 887 feels like the more technically capable.

All listening/testing was done with ZMF Verite Cocobolo + Verite lambskin pads."


----------



## oqvist

Interesting. I can relate a lot to the THX 789 vs my RME ADI-2 so they 887 is perhaps quite similar to the THX 789


----------



## blockchainhero

bryceu said:


> Cross-posting this here in case anyone is interested:
> 
> "For those who had been asking about RME ADI-2 DAC AMP portion vs THX 887, after some further blind testing + listening sessions + comparing:
> The performance/difference between the two is easily identifiable.
> ...



I (personally) don’t believe there are audible differences between competent DACs but do nonetheless appreciate you writing up and presenting your impressions.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Is that an apples and apples comparison? If I understand things the THX 887 is only an amp, and only takes analog in. The RME DAC has no analog in. I don't understand how you can narrow things down just to the amp portion since by necessity, anything you listen to on the RME is going through the DAC and on the THX 887 it's an analog signal that went through some other DAC. I guess you could loop the RME into the THX 887


----------



## bryceu

That is correct, the THX 887 is strictly an amp. The RME ADI-2 DAC is a DAC and an amp.

Perhaps it clears things up that I mention I am feeding the THX 887 with the RME DAC using the same settings via XLR outputs.

Assuming the only difference between the RME DAC + RME AMP vs the RME DAC + THX 887 AMP is the internal circuitry of the RME vs the external circuitry connecting the RME to the 887 (XLR cables);
The conclusion posted was for the purpose of comparing the performance of the THX 887 amp as an additional amp/feature, being fed from the RME, versus the performance of the RME ADI-2 as an AIO.

@oqvist I owned the 789 previously and found the same differences between the RME amp and the 789 amp, as I recently discovered with the RME amp vs the 887 amp. Unfortunately I don't have the 789 and 887 in hand to directly compare, and I don't even have the same headphones I compared them with at the time. I will say that the Verite open makes the differences between RME/887 more easily noticeable than did any previous headphones (Clear, Ether 2, Auteur, Andromeda) when I was using RME/789.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

bryceu said:


> That is correct, the THX 887 is strictly an amp. The RME ADI-2 DAC is a DAC and an amp.
> 
> Perhaps it clears things up that I mention I am feeding the THX 887 with the RME DAC using the same settings via XLR outputs.
> 
> ...



Thanks for explaining, that sounds like a reasonable comparison.


----------



## mixman

bryceu said:


> Cross-posting this here in case anyone is interested:
> 
> "For those who had been asking about RME ADI-2 DAC AMP portion vs THX 887, after some further blind testing + listening sessions + comparing:
> The performance/difference between the two is easily identifiable.
> ...


Dude, this exactly sums up my feelings of the differences between the RME and THX 789 amps. I generally prefer the THX since it is more airy and has a roomier feel. Also, I feel the THX is more dynamic too.


----------



## bryceu

mixman said:


> Dude, this exactly sums up my feelings of the differences between the RME and THX 789 amps. I generally prefer the THX since it is more airy and has a roomier feel. Also, I feel the THX is more dynamic too.



Yea my memory of the RME vs 789 is exactly the same as RME vs 887.

Also this:



Voxata said:


> PCB shots are up, only change is opamp from the 789.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dphone-amp-new-champ.8942/page-30#post-270229



No hiding they are basically the same amp.


----------



## mixman

bryceu said:


> Yea my memory of the RME vs 789 is exactly the same as RME vs 887.
> 
> Also this:
> 
> ...


So what do you think now vs the MJ2? Any favorites?


----------



## bryceu (Nov 19, 2019)

mixman said:


> So what do you think now vs the MJ2? Any favorites?



Going back and forth between 887 and Mj2 I find it to be pretty even on a song to song basis, preferring the 887 only slightly more often.

However I'm quite strongly favoring the 887. It's most notably more linear, slightly wider, and cleaner details. The Mj2 does have slightly more depth, different (not better or worse) imaging, and even more dynamics than the 887.

The draw of the Mj2 to me is that it offers the tube rolling option which is a very big plus if you don't want the same exact tonal balance and sound characteristics forever.

I will also mention though, that the improvements feel more substantial going from the RME amp portion to the THX 887, than when going from the RME amp to the Mjolnir 2. Going from the RME amp to the Mj2 I notice improvements but also trade-offs (like the lack of linearity and dynamics that are so good sometimes detail is lost). Where as going from the RME amp to the 887 the only negative is that the mids are slightly less engaging on the 887.

At this point if I could keep just one amp I would probably go with the 887, but I will wait till the Verite Closed arrives to have an alternative lens to view the amps through before getting rid of all the tubes.

I think it's fair to say that I am leaning more towards SS characteristics in my search for the most optimal amp. 

I do think I will build a BHC+SB whenever kits go on sale again or I find a deal on one, that amp just had an appeal to the emotions for me. Only reason I got rid of it was to build my own.


----------



## butch111

I hope someone can explain me , what I have to do when I want to connect 2 balanced Headphones hearing the same content (Movies) over my ADI2DAC - one 789 is coming , do I need 2 789? . And how to connect? THX


----------



## bryceu

You would need an amp with 2x balanced headphone outputs.

Or two amps with balanced headphone outputs, and an XLR splitter like this: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/YXM121--hosa-yxm-121-y-cable-xlr3f-to-dual-xlr3m-6-inch (Never personally used one so might want to double check what the cable does to line voltage)

Or, you can toggle your RME to "Mute Line OFF" and have one balanced headphone plugged into the 789, and another directly into your RME ADI-2 Phones output via an adapter like this: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4768 (I use this type of cable frequently to convert my balanced headphone cables into 1/4")


----------



## butch111

bryceu said:


> You would need an amp with 2x balanced headphone outputs.
> 
> Or two amps with balanced headphone outputs, and an XLR splitter like this: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/YXM121--hosa-yxm-121-y-cable-xlr3f-to-dual-xlr3m-6-inch (Never personally used one so might want to double check what the cable does to line voltage)
> 
> Or, you can toggle your RME to "Mute Line OFF" and have one balanced headphone plugged into the 789, and another directly into your RME ADI-2 Phones output via an adapter like this: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4768 (I use this type of cable frequently to convert my balanced headphone cables into 1/4")



Thank you very much for this perfect answer!!


----------



## sysyphos

bryceu said:


> Cross-posting this here in case anyone is interested:
> 
> "For those who had been asking about RME ADI-2 DAC AMP portion vs THX 887, after some further blind testing + listening sessions + comparing:
> The performance/difference between the two is easily identifiable.
> ...



Thank you very much for your detailed comparison. I am also looking for an amp to pair with ADI-2 DAC-HD800S combo and one of the amps that I am considering is THX 887. Do you have any experience with RNHP or Vioelectric VA200? I will be very appreciated if I could learn your ideas and thoughts about suitability of these amps with this combo.


----------



## bryceu

sysyphos said:


> Thank you very much for your detailed comparison. I am also looking for an amp to pair with ADI-2 DAC-HD800S combo and one of the amps that I am considering is THX 887. Do you have any experience with RNHP or Vioelectric VA200? I will be very appreciated if I could learn your ideas and thoughts about suitability of these amps with this combo.


I don’t have any experience with either of those amps I’m sorry. I will say though, if I were to guess the HD 800 S would be a bit on the overly analytical side with the THX887. It’s not a headphone I am familiar with from a personal ownership standpoint, but there’s plenty of information out there to assume that the pairing would not be very musical. Personally I would probably recommend either a ZDT Jr or bottle head crack with speedball to go with HD800s. But again I’ve never owned the 800s or heard those pairings, but I have owned both the ZDT Jr and the BHC+SB.


----------



## oqvist

I don´t mind my hd 800S at all on the THx 789 AAA. Use it as much as my Trafomatic Audio Head One. It just plays to it´s strength may be just as good focus on that. But Kennerton Magni is absolutely awesome straight out of the RME ADI-2. HD 800S plus Kennerton Magni and not a worry in the world it feels like now. RME ADI-2 seem to match Kennerton Magni particularly well. I tend to favour the THX 789 AAA but I am still confused regarding this one.


----------



## greyscale75

Just received a Monoprice 789 amp. Ok RME ,when is the ADI-2 going to be available in the USA?


----------



## bryceu

oqvist said:


> I don´t mind my hd 800S at all on the THx 789 AAA. Use it as much as my Trafomatic Audio Head One. It just plays to it´s strength may be just as good focus on that.


This is a great way to put it. Even though I’m not familiar with 800s I definitely agree the 887 can play to the Verite’s strengths as well.


----------



## bryceu

greyscale75 said:


> Just received a Monoprice 789 amp. Ok RME ,when is the ADI-2 going to be available in the USA?


Monoprice 887*

There are plenty of good alternative DACs to the RME since you don’t need an AIO DAC/AMP combo. I’ve been hearing lots of good things about Bifrost 2 and it’s around half the cost of the RME. Grace SDAC balanced is another cheap alternative or SMSL SU-8, although I will say the RME DAC outperforms both of the latter.


----------



## bryceu

@mixman so i did an interesting thing and put the LISST tubes in the Mjolnir 2 to give them another listen. I'm not sure why I had discounted them as being poor the first time I listened to them because I actually find the Mj2 with the LISST to be an enjoyable and viable experience. 

It's a bit early to give an official position, but I'm finding the LISST to offer things some benefits that the 887 is not. 

The 887 is definitely still the more crisp/sharp amp when it comes to detail. (Think Utopia or LCD4. refined, sharp, crisp detail).

The LISST is giving a more realistic/authentic listening experience. Instruments, drums especially, sound closest to how they do in the real world. The stage depth and width of the LISST setup is about the same as the 887, both being wider and deeper than the RME. What I'm enjoying about the LISST also is that the mids are more engaging and I don't notice the minor dryness/blandness that I do on the 887. The LISST is favoring more body and heft (but it doesn't sound like distortion).


----------



## mixman

bryceu said:


> @mixman so i did an interesting thing and put the LISST tubes in the Mjolnir 2 to give them another listen. I'm not sure why I had discounted them as being poor the first time I listened to them because I actually find the Mj2 with the LISST to be an enjoyable and viable experience.
> 
> It's a bit early to give an official position, but I'm finding the LISST to offer things some benefits that the 887 is not.
> 
> ...


Great impressions. It seems like one isn’t dominant over the other, only different flavors. But I think you would agree both sound a little better than the RME’s amp?


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## gimmeheadroom (Nov 22, 2019)

My shiny black ADI-2 DAC FS came to my life this morning. Amazing. Best thousand euros you can spend on audio IMHO. We have the disadvantage to pay a lot more for it than Americans even though we live in the next country to Germany. But at least it was available quickly here.


----------



## bryceu

mixman said:


> Great impressions. It seems like one isn’t dominant over the other, only different flavors. But I think you would agree both sound a little better than the RME’s amp?



Definitely both are upgrades from the RME amp, with the 887 being the more distinguishable upgrade in terms of technicalities.


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## gimmeheadroom (Nov 22, 2019)

greyscale75 said:


> Just received a Monoprice 789 amp. Ok RME ,when is the ADI-2 going to be available in the USA?



It was in stock at Thomann in Germany for only a week. I got two (long story, I sent one back to them unopened) and today I see it is already out of stock again. I don't know if RME is not making many or if people are just buying every unit immediately. If I had to guess, I would say the latter


----------



## Collusion[FIN]

I would be extremely interested in hearing some impressions/comparisons, especially if you have heard the original version of ADI-2 DAC.


----------



## Nostoi

Collusion[FIN] said:


> I would be extremely interested in hearing some impressions/comparisons, especially if you have heard the original version of ADI-2 DAC.


Me too.


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## gimmeheadroom

Collusion[FIN] said:


> I would be extremely interested in hearing some impressions/comparisons, especially if you have heard the original version of ADI-2 DAC.





Nostoi said:


> Me too.



I'm sorry guys. This is my first one. Actually, I wanted to buy an MQA-capable desktop DAC but after reading this thread and not having enough money for the Brooklyn DAC+ I decided I couldn't go wrong with the RME. 

So far my very early impressions based on playing high bitrate PCM samples from 2l.no and using Tidal and Deezer desktop apps (hifi subscriptions to both) over WDM and foobar2000 (ASIO) SACD ISOs and flac are:

The ADI-2 FS DAC and Sennheiser 600s are not a great pairing. On the other hand, LCD2C which are very easy to drive are magical. The clarity of the DAC is incredible. The better material you feed it the better it sounds. Absolutely smooth from bottom to top using default settings and crystal clear. Musical yet without any coloration. I think if you want a desktop setup then the RME and a pair of Audezes is all you need and you're done.

I do get some clicks on Tidal and maybe Deezer between songs or when changing albums. It's annoying but tolerable.

The remote is nice but for me not useful because I'm using the DAC on my desk with headphones. Surely it's something nice to have if you want to run the DAC into an integrated amp.

The printed manual comes with an extra page saying the manual is already out of date. The manual is great but I wish they would provide the latest manual especially if they know it's not the latest.

Driver installation and firmware update on Windows 10 is easy and smooth.

I would like an option to turn off the red power ring illumination when the device is turned off. Too much light pollution in my room at night.

If you have any specific questions I'll try to answer. But I have no experience with the previous model.


----------



## betula

gimmeheadroom said:


> I'm sorry guys. This is my first one. Actually, I wanted to buy an MQA-capable desktop DAC but after reading this thread and not having enough money for the Brooklyn DAC+ I decided I couldn't go wrong with the RME.
> 
> So far my very early impressions based on playing high bitrate PCM samples from 2l.no and using Tidal and Deezer desktop apps (hifi subscriptions to both) over WDM and foobar2000 (ASIO) SACD ISOs and flac are:
> 
> ...


What's the gear you are coming from if I may ask? Thanks!


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## gimmeheadroom (Nov 23, 2019)

betula said:


> What's the gear you are coming from if I may ask? Thanks!



No desktop setup to speak of, just a Chord Mojo.

My regular MQA DAC is an Oppo 205 and I also have an Audiolab 8300 CD player with a USB DAC that uses an ESS9018 which I think might even sound better. Headamps include a Meier Corda Jazz-ff and some tube gear.


----------



## Gus141

Got my LUMIN U1 Mini network transport (streamer) yesterday, and after a day of trying all the permutations to my gear, the LUMIN connected to the RME ADI-2 DAC via USB sounded the best. Great combo! Best sound quality I’ve had out of any streamer I own (Oppo 205 via UPnP/DLNA, Bluesound Node 2i, and now LUMIN U1 Mini).

I’m no longer interested in trying the AES/EBU cable adapter to get it to work with the coax S/PDIF input of the RME. I think RME’s USB implementation is better than the Oppo 205; maybe their fs internal clock for USB is the difference, and makes it sound better than any S/PDIF input I give it. I’m still using all the inputs on the RME though: Oppo 205 via optical, Node 2i via coax, and now LUMIN U1 Mini via USB.

I love this DAC.

Cheers,
Gus


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Gus141 said:


> Got my LUMIN U1 Mini network transport (streamer) yesterday, and after a day of trying all the permutations to my gear, the LUMIN connected to the RME ADI-2 DAC via USB sounded the best. Great combo! Best sound quality I’ve had out of any streamer I own (Oppo 205 via UPnP/DLNA, Bluesound Node 2i, and now LUMIN U1 Mini).
> 
> I’m no longer interested in trying the AES/EBU cable adapter to get it to work with the coax S/PDIF input of the RME. I think RME’s USB implementation is better than the Oppo 205; maybe their fs internal clock for USB is the difference, and makes it sound better than any S/PDIF input I give it. I’m still using all the inputs on the RME though: Oppo 205 via optical, Node 2i via coax, and now LUMIN U1 Mini via USB.
> 
> ...



I think maybe it comes down to ESS vs. AK. The ESS is more analytical (so is my Chord Mojo). The AK is warmer. Kinda like the Sennheiser of DACs.


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## VRacer-111 (Nov 23, 2019)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think maybe it comes down to ESS vs. AK. The ESS is more analytical (so is my Chord Mojo). The AK is warmer. Kinda like the Sennheiser of DACs.



Not so sure about that as the Gustard X20U (ESS 9018) I have is more full bodied and euphonic sounding than the RME ADI-2, which is definitely more analytical sounding in comparison. The Gustard X20U just doesn't have quite the black background or ultimate clarity of the RME ADI-2 (but not too far behind.)


----------



## Gus141

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think maybe it comes down to ESS vs. AK. The ESS is more analytical (so is my Chord Mojo). The AK is warmer. Kinda like the Sennheiser of DACs.


Definitely agree. And some cans pair better with the ESS-based DACs than AKM ones, and vice versa. Finding the best match for everything is the challenge (fun?) of this hobby. Speaking of which, I said I was using USB for the LUMIN, well I’m back to S/PDIF Coax between the U1 Mini and the RME ADI-2 DAC. I’ll spare everyone my reasons, but for now, this is what sounds the best to me. Maybe after more burn-in I’ll do another comparison.

Back on-topic: the universal remote control capabilities of the RME ADI-2 DAC (using a Harmony Elite remote) really made it a joy to try out the different permutations of gear and connections.


----------



## Gus141

VRacer-111 said:


> Not so sure about that as the Gustard X20U (ESS 9018) I have is more full bodied and euphonic sounding than the RME ADI-2, which is definitely more analytical sounding in comparison. The Gustard X20U just doesn't have quite the black background or ultimate clarity of the RME ADI-2 (but not too far behind.)


Your DAC has 2 9018s in fully balanced config. That could also be contributing to the difference. The Oppo 205 only has one 9038Pro.

Cheers,
Gus


----------



## HuoYuanJia

Just to let you guys know, the ADI-2 DAC has been updated with the AK4493 and an improved remote. Very few units are available yet. Full availability will be around January from what I've heard.

I have shared some more infos here: https://www.klauseulenbach.de/2019/11/24/updated-rme-adi-2-dac-november-2019/


----------



## chungjun

HuoYuanJia said:


> Just to let you guys know, the ADI-2 DAC has been updated with the AK4493 and an improved remote. Very few units are available yet. Full availability will be around January from what I've heard.
> 
> I have shared some more infos here: https://www.klauseulenbach.de/2019/11/24/updated-rme-adi-2-dac-november-2019/



Thanks for the info. More options / progress coming into the market. Hopefully implementation of the new AK4493 will inject something different (and better?) into RME's line-up.


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## gimmeheadroom (Nov 25, 2019)

Horrible tablet pic...


----------



## SmashBruh

Hey guys! I’ve been trying to find some comparisons but have been unable to find anyone doing a direct head-to-head so I figured I’d ask here-

Has anyone compared the RME directly to the Modi 3 as a pure DAC? If so, how do they compare to one another? I’m looking to upgrade my DAC section of my amp and have been eying an RME; but the Modi3 is pretty good and for $100 it’s pretty hard to beat. Looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say!


----------



## bryceu

HuoYuanJia said:


> Just to let you guys know, the ADI-2 DAC has been updated with the AK4493 and an improved remote. Very few units are available yet. Full availability will be around January from what I've heard.
> 
> I have shared some more infos here: https://www.klauseulenbach.de/2019/11/24/updated-rme-adi-2-dac-november-2019/


A refresh to one of my favorite pieces of gear! Awesome


----------



## bryceu

SmashBruh said:


> Hey guys! I’ve been trying to find some comparisons but have been unable to find anyone doing a direct head-to-head so I figured I’d ask here-
> 
> Has anyone compared the RME directly to the Modi 3 as a pure DAC? If so, how do they compare to one another? I’m looking to upgrade my DAC section of my amp and have been eying an RME; but the Modi3 is pretty good and for $100 it’s pretty hard to beat. Looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say!



I've compared the RME to the Modi 2 Uber (Bad), Modi Multibit (good), Bifrost Multibit (good), Grace SDAC (good), SMSL SU-8 (good), Aune x1s (good), Gumby A2 (Great). RME falls into the Great category as well. The RME has one of the cleanest backgrounds I've heard on any DAC, and very clean/sharp details. The resolution of the RME beats everything else I have compared it to except for the Gumby A2 which offered similar resolution. I assume the Modi 3 is quite comparable to the Grace SDAC or the SMSL SU-8 in terms of resolution performance. Your Verite will definitely be able to extract the extra detail and resolution of the RME ADI-2 DAC. However if I were to buy a new DAC strictly for performance, I would probably favor the Gumby (or wait till early next year for the likely Unison revision). Bifrost 2 has been getting good remarks as well. But the reason the RME wins out for me is that I can use it to pre-amp my monitors, set parametric EQ profiles, a fun visualizer, and it's small clean package. While I don't often use its AMP portion, it adds additional option in case I'm looking for another variation.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

bryceu said:


> A refresh to one of my favorite pieces of gear! Awesome



Yes, but it's not like us, owners of the first version, get some sort of trade-in discount. So to benefit from the "refresh", we would have to spend another 1000 euro. Now, don't get me wrong, my ADI-2 is my end-game, I love it. But how many existing owners will spend 1000 euro for a minor upgrade/refresh? Honest question, can some members here offer their views?

I suppose the old units won't sell for more than 500 or something on the used market now that there is a new version.


----------



## blockchainhero

CaptainFantastic said:


> Yes, but it's not like us, owners of the first version, get some sort of trade-in discount. So to benefit from the "refresh", we would have to spend another 1000 euro. Now, don't get me wrong, my ADI-2 is my end-game, I love it. But how many existing owners will spend 1000 euro for a minor upgrade/refresh? Honest question, can some members here offer their views?
> 
> I suppose the old units won't sell for more than 500 or something on the used market now that there is a new version.



As an existing owner: No, transparent is transparent.


----------



## bryceu

CaptainFantastic said:


> Yes, but it's not like us, owners of the first version, get some sort of trade-in discount. So to benefit from the "refresh", we would have to spend another 1000 euro. Now, don't get me wrong, my ADI-2 is my end-game, I love it. But how many existing owners will spend 1000 euro for a minor upgrade/refresh? Honest question, can some members here offer their views?
> 
> I suppose the old units won't sell for more than 500 or something on the used market now that there is a new version.


I guess my comment was more from a progression of technology and the greater good of the hobby. As a current owner, no I probably wouldn't justify selling my unit to buy a new unit. Would I take the new one over mine? Yea. Am I still 100% satisfied with my RME ADI-2 DAC? Definitely.


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## bryceu

I think a used RME ADI-2 DAC will still hold its value well, even if it's an older revision. Especially in the States where we don't exactly have readily available access. The function of the device remains unchanged, perhaps only a "slightly improved" sound quality. I'm sure it will be marketed as a nice sound improvement by RME and the community in order to promote the sale of new units, justifiably so, but that's going to be up to you to resist the consumerism mindset.


----------



## bryceu

On another note, I finally decided to set an EQ profile on my ADI-2 instead of being lazy and using Eq APO. There is definitely a more noticeable effect from the EQ when using the built-in, and the enhancements sound much more natural. It was actually more intuitive than I expected, just took some referencing the manual.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I have to admit, the menus are still blowing my mind. I get the right button to twist or push about 10% of the time.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> Yes, but it's not like us, owners of the first version, get some sort of trade-in discount. So to benefit from the "refresh", we would have to spend another 1000 euro. Now, don't get me wrong, my ADI-2 is my end-game, I love it. But how many existing owners will spend 1000 euro for a minor upgrade/refresh? Honest question, can some members here offer their views?
> 
> I suppose the old units won't sell for more than 500 or something on the used market now that there is a new version.



I think now that the remote is an upgradeable option, RME really did consider the previous customers and that made me feel pretty good. So on paper yeah the new one is better but I doubt anybody can hear the difference. All the reviews and comments I read from the few people who heard both is if you don't have an RME, buy the new one. If you have an RME already, just enjoy it


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## HuoYuanJia (Nov 25, 2019)

CaptainFantastic said:


> But how many existing owners will spend 1000 euro for a minor upgrade/refresh?


I hope absolutely nobody. That would be a severe case of upgradetitis.

In my use, I have absolutely zero scenarios in which I would be even remotely close to maxing out the capabilities of the original ADI-2 DAC. There is plenty of spare headroom and I am absolutely confident that I weren't able to tell the 4 extra dB. This is for the measurement leaderboards only.

If this silent update really makes your current device feel old, I suggest to at least wait out on the next device with a new name. I dunno, maybe the ADI-2 DAC+ or Ultra DAC. Maybe ADI-3 DAC, or you know. Because as long the genius engineer of RME won't have a car crash, I am confident that we will see more real upgrades in the future.


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## bryceu

RME ADI-3 DAC... Sold.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

bryceu said:


> RME ADI-3 DAC... Sold.



Uhm, I think you meant RME ADI-3 DAC MQA... 

Because of this I'm saving my money for a Brooklyn DAC+... there is just never enough money in the world for all the hifi "requirements"


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## Slaphead (Nov 25, 2019)

CaptainFantastic said:


> Yes, but it's not like us, owners of the first version, get some sort of trade-in discount. So to benefit from the "refresh", we would have to spend another 1000 euro. Now, don't get me wrong, my ADI-2 is my end-game, I love it. But how many existing owners will spend 1000 euro for a minor upgrade/refresh? Honest question, can some members here offer their views?
> 
> I suppose the old units won't sell for more than 500 or something on the used market now that there is a new version.



The spec improvements are negligible, and that's all they are, spec improvements. Honestly they won't be audible at all. The AK4490 is probably going EOL in the near future and RME needed to replace it with a current offering from AKM - the AK4493.

Really there is no need to fret about an improvement of 3-4dB of SNR when the original was vanishingly small in that area as well.

Also consider that the DAC chip is  less than half the story - it's how it's implemented and the quality of the analog stuff after the DAC that counts for the most, and the original shares pretty much all of that with the new.

I'm not dumping my original ADI 2 just for a slight spec change.


----------



## Ordeith (Nov 26, 2019)

Hi everyone - my first post in this thread and I tried to read a lot of it of course. I have been eyeing this unit for a long time as my 'end game' for use with my PC, and research seems to show me that the USB connector from the DAC to the PC is the best I can hope for in terms of quality.

I see that there has been an update to the AK4493 - are these units available in the United States yet? I just moved to NYC and am looking to purchase one. Ideally - I'd love to listen to one first, especially since I absolutely love the Ultimate Ears 10 Pro Customs I bought around 12 years ago thanks to recommendations on this very forum, and the IEM functionality on this DAC is reported to be excellent.


----------



## Gus141

Ordeith said:


> Hi everyone - my first post in this thread and I tried to read a lot of it of course. I have been eyeing this unit for a long time as my 'end game' for use with my PC, and research seems to show me that the USB connector from the DAC to the PC is the best I can hope for in terms of quality.
> 
> I see that there has been an update to the AK4493 - are these units available in the United States yet? I just moved to NYC and am looking to purchase one. Ideally - I'd love to listen to one first, especially since I absolutely love the Ultimate Ears 10 Pro Customs I bought around 12 years ago thanks to recommendations on this very forum, and the IEM functionality on this DAC is reported to be excellent.


The version of this DAC with the AK4493 should be hitting the US by Dec or Jan. B&H Photo (420 9th Ave, New York, NY 10001) is an authorized RME dealer (I bought my RME ADI-2 DAC from them). Keep your eye on Sweetwater and B&H Photo websites, they will likely be the first to have them in the US. I personally would wait for the upgraded version rather than get the AK4490-based version on sale. Just me.


----------



## frogmeat69

Gus141 said:


> The version of this DAC with the AK4493 should be hitting the US by Dec or Jan. B&H Photo (420 9th Ave, New York, NY 10001) is an authorized RME dealer (I bought my RME ADI-2 DAC from them). Keep your eye on Sweetwater and B&H Photo websites, they will likely be the first to have them in the US. I personally would wait for the upgraded version rather than get the AK4490-based version on sale. Just me.


If the 1st version goes on sale for a good chunk of cash cheaper than the new one, Why wouldn't you buy the cheaper original?? You will not tell any difference between them with such small rise in specs, but your wallet will notice, lol.


----------



## Gus141

frogmeat69 said:


> If the 1st version goes on sale for a good chunk of cash cheaper than the new one, Why wouldn't you buy the cheaper original?? You will not tell any difference between them with such small rise in specs, but your wallet will notice, lol.


You are correct. I said I personally would wait; that’s just me; I would have regrets I didn’t have the latest. Damn this hobby!


----------



## Gus141

I’m not buying the new one though. MY next upgrade will probably be the next RME ADI-2 Pro so i can get balance phones.


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## bryceu

Ordeith said:


> Hi everyone - my first post in this thread and I tried to read a lot of it of course. I have been eyeing this unit for a long time as my 'end game' for use with my PC, and research seems to show me that the USB connector from the DAC to the PC is the best I can hope for in terms of quality.
> 
> I see that there has been an update to the AK4493 - are these units available in the United States yet? I just moved to NYC and am looking to purchase one. Ideally - I'd love to listen to one first, especially since I absolutely love the Ultimate Ears 10 Pro Customs I bought around 12 years ago thanks to recommendations on this very forum, and the IEM functionality on this DAC is reported to be excellent.


I would snag an older version at a discount if you get that option. Otherwise waiting for the new revision shouldn’t be long like others said. Either way great combo unit. Absolutely love mine, think you will too!


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## Gus141 (Nov 27, 2019)

bryceu said:


> I would snag an older version at a discount if you get that option. ...


Speaking of which, I just saw that Sweetwater and B&H Photo have the Pro version on sale for $1499 (a $500 savings). Wow, that would make me think twice about buying an ADI-2 DAC (if I didn’t already have one) and purchase the Pro for just $400 more than the DAC. There are tradeoffs: no remote on the Pro, and no low-noise IEM output; but, you get a lot more functionality with the ADC, more input/output options, and balanced headphone output if you want it.

Maybe the price drop is an indication the Pro version is getting an upgrade soon too. Hopefully the next Pro version supports an IR remote.

Cheers,
Gus


----------



## bryceu (Nov 27, 2019)

If you need an ADC or extra output power the ADI PRO seems like a great option.

I'd be curious to see how the ADI PRO amplifier running via balanced phones output compares to the ADI DAC amplifier. Anyone have experience with both?

I know ASR seems to favor the numbers of the ADI-2 DAC


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## Anaz (Nov 27, 2019)

bryceu said:


> ...
> 
> I know ASR seems to favor the numbers of the ADI-2 DAC


IIRC he measured the non-FS ADI-2 Pro - the Pro, which was released before the DAC, was upgraded to the current *ADI-2 Pro FS* when the ADI-2 DAC FS was released. The current ADI-2 Pro FS and 4490 ADI-2 DAC FS should measure the same.


----------



## bryceu

Ah thanks for the clarification.


----------



## greyscale75

Gus141 said:


> I’m not buying the new one though. MY next upgrade will probably be the next RME ADI-2 Pro so i can get balance phones.


On sale @ B&H $1499.00


----------



## bryceu

Sweetwater and several other retailers as well. As someone else said it looks like the ADI-2 PRO FS may be getting the same internal DAC chip refresh soon, hence why they are offering it for $500 off.


----------



## oqvist

Anyone here using tidal hifi? I am trying to get cd quqlity but my rme say 96 as clock when it should be 44?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Somewhat interesting on Thomann the price for the old version was always 969 euro. Then the new version appeared as available for 979 euro and the old one disappeared for 1-2 weeks. Then the old one reappeared at 969 euro and finally the new one is also down to 969 euro. So now both versions are available for the same price.


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## gimmeheadroom

At least on the Thomann.de international site for EU, they're both at the same price but the new model is out of stock. When the new model comes back in stock the price will go up 

That is, they're priced the same buy you can't buy the new one at that price since they don't have it. Or maybe you can buy it but you're not getting it right away.


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## bryceu

Or they will reduce the price of the old revision once the new revision is available.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

No, if the price is 969 then it's because it's priced the same as the old model. Before the new one went out of stock it was 999 Euros. It has been in and out of stock several times and the price when new and available has not changed.


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## CaptainFantastic

I think the prices differ from EU country to EU country because of VAT. On mine it has always been 969.


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## bryceu

I'm in the US so I'm out of the loop, but the view websites I looked at showed 969 as well.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

oqvist said:


> Anyone here using tidal hifi? I am trying to get cd quqlity but my rme say 96 as clock when it should be 44?



Yeah this is a known issue. I don't exactly understand the details but I was told if you install the ASIO drivers then since Tidal etc. use another interface, the sample rate doesn't get updated when you change from an ASIO source to a non ASIO source.

The options seem to be keep the ASIO driver for best quality with foobar2000 etc. and live with the annoying sample rate stuff for apps that don't do ASIO, or uninstall the ASIO driver and everybody uses the same interface to the RME and the sample rate should be ok. I'm keeping the ASIO driver and planning to buy a(nother) MQA DAC.

I listened to some DSD256 and 352.80 PCM samples last night from the RME into my HD 25s. I could not believe what I was hearing. It was like the el cheapo Sennies turned into a pair of high end Sennheisers. This DAC is beyond superb.


----------



## oqvist

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah this is a known issue. I don't exactly understand the details but I was told if you install the ASIO drivers then since Tidal etc. use another interface, the sample rate doesn't get updated when you change from an ASIO source to a non ASIO source.
> 
> The options seem to be keep the ASIO driver for best quality with foobar2000 etc. and live with the annoying sample rate stuff for apps that don't do ASIO, or uninstall the ASIO driver and everybody uses the same interface to the RME and the sample rate should be ok. I'm keeping the ASIO driver and planning to buy a(nother) MQA DAC.
> 
> I listened to some DSD256 and 352.80 PCM samples last night from the RME into my HD 25s. I could not believe what I was hearing. It was like the el cheapo Sennies turned into a pair of high end Sennheisers. This DAC is beyond superb.


I am using the win 10 drivers havent installed any third party. Kind of disappointed streaming 2019 is nowhere cd quality. Installing asio would only help cd and not tidal? But cd shows as 44 so win 10 has its own asio?


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Dec 2, 2019)

oqvist said:


> I am using the win 10 drivers havent installed any third party. Kind of disappointed streaming 2019 is nowhere cd quality. Installing asio would only help cd and not tidal? But cd shows as 44 so win 10 has its own asio?



If you are saying you didn't install the RME drivers then I have no explanation for why the bitrate doesn't get updated. The streaming apps don't use ASIO as far as I know but you're still getting good quality sound. It's CD quality for sure. ASIO is just the first way Windows apps could get the best latency. Now they have kernel streaming also.

I installed the RME drivers because foobar2000 can exploit them. I don't play CDs on a PC so I have no idea what Windows does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output

Tidal Masters generally sound superb over an MQA DAC. I would not use the RME for Tidal Hifi.


----------



## oqvist

Yes rme drivers is installed.

Are you getting cd quality with mqa? Is there some dirt cheap mqa players?


----------



## MagnusH

You need to update the firmware, the older version had some issues with Windows and sample rates.
Here is the latest: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29439

Btw, lots of other nice improvements in the firmware update


----------



## gimmeheadroom

oqvist said:


> Yes rme drivers is installed.
> 
> Are you getting cd quality with mqa? Is there some dirt cheap mqa players?



I don't know what the theoretical limits of MQA are. Most of the Tidal Masters I play over my Oppo 205 show either 24/96 or 24/192. I have seen other rates.

CD is 16 bit depth, 44.1 KHz. MQA on Tidal is better than CD.

The cheapest MQA DACs I know of are the SMSL 500, Project Pre Box S2, and Bluesound Node 2i. I have a Bluesound, I have not seen the other two. Project Pre Box S2 is around 320 euros on ebay, the Node 2i costs 549 Euros factory direct. The Bluesound is very nice and I have not seen anybody criticize the sound quality.

If you have Windows, you can install foobar2000 to play CDs through your RME via ASIO which would be as good as you can get.



MagnusH said:


> You need to update the firmware, the older version had some issues with Windows and sample rates.
> Here is the latest: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29439
> 
> Btw, lots of other nice improvements in the firmware update



I am running the latest and the issue with the wrong sample rate still happens when the app doesn't use the RME ASIO driver


----------



## MagnusH

I use Roon, but typically WASAPI in Exclusive Mode will work, shared mode means it will use whatever setting you have in Windows, which in turn will make Windows do a crappy up-sampling.


----------



## oqvist

I installed the 33 firmware. Had 32 since before. Also installed foobar2000. I can only select 16/96000 and 24/96000 in win 10. There is no 16/44.

I tried some really simple music. Haley Westenra/Odyssey. cd is just cleaner and better and richer using Tidal hifi which claims lossless cd quality. Not huge but easilly noticable on my Kennerton Magni. Don´t even have to go for my more analytical HD 800S. Running the pcs own bluray reader so I am not really maxing the cd-sound. All goes through the same usb cable to the DAC.

Shouldn´t be necessary I mean streaming cd quality is 1 mb/s. But they are still saving on servers by compressing I guess. I run Tidal hifi as master don´t make any difference when you don´t have MQA?

With MQA is the quality actually as good as cd? Seeing the cd is the source format upsampling really wouldn´t help any and could as best be equal to the intended sound?


----------



## MagnusH

Tidal uses flac which is lossless compressed, so its identical from CD. If you use Tidal desktop app, from "Settings -> Sound output -> More settings" set "Use exclusive mode" and make sure "Passthrough MQA" is not set.

With these settings, a vanilla CD tune will play at 44 and MQA typically at 96, on the RME display. Windows settings wont matter due to exclusive mode.


----------



## oqvist

Yes that is how it´s set. Do you have an example of an album in tidal that should show 44 instead of 96. Iam looking at int 96 info on the rme display at the bottom right if I misunderstand what that means? 

SQ is close but in hifi and in master mode (which I suspect is same as hifi without mqa) cd is always and every time just better. On some tracks I even get clear distortion so I guess you get a lot of errors in the transferr from cd to flac? 

Not saying it sound awful but clearly not cd quality at all.


----------



## emlin

oqvist said:


> Yes that is how it´s set. Do you have an example of an album in tidal that should show 44 instead of 96. Iam looking at int 96 info on the rme display at the bottom right if I misunderstand what that means?
> 
> SQ is close but in hifi and in master mode (which I suspect is same as hifi without mqa) cd is always and every time just better. On some tracks I even get clear distortion so I guess you get a lot of errors in the transferr from cd to flac?
> 
> Not saying it sound awful but clearly not cd quality at all.



FLAC is lossless and error free. MQA is lossy.

I'd uninstall your drivers and start again if I were you.


----------



## technobear

oqvist said:


> On some tracks I even get clear distortion so I guess you get a lot of errors in the transferr from cd to flac?


Some CDs have hideous copy protection which can cause all sorts of clicks and burbles and other odd noises - even for some CD players, never mind ripping software.


----------



## MagnusH

All non-masters should be 16/44, which is normal CD quality. But make sure you select the WASAPI soundcard, since that is needed for exclusive mode (you probably have 2 soundcards for RME, one ASIO and one other which should be WASAPI).

Any difference in quality between Tidal (flac) or CD should be down to hardware only (or transport of data).


----------



## oqvist

The RME is called Analog 1+2 (RME ADI-2 DAC). I have never installed anything besides the RME drivers on my win 10 computer. I have a vague memory of installing some asio on win 7 or if it was win xp even but all that old knowledge is completly lost. Should I install some wasapi drivers also?


----------



## oqvist

Ah the settings in tidal enables some wasapi. Guess there is just nothing more to do no hokus pokus left. I will try a bit with my old audio GD reference 9 and see if it gives different results.


----------



## betula

I know, the chances are like winning the lottery, but still I ask.
Is there anyone who tried both the Chord TT2 Empyrean combo and the RME ADI2 with the Audeze LCD2C (or Empyrean)?

I am also interested in RME ADI2/Hugo2/TT2 comparisons or RME ADI2 with Empyrean and LCD2C impressions.
Thanks.


----------



## linearly

I've been eyeing the RME for quite some time now. Was so close to buying it but it went out of stock for version 2 updating, so no regrets here. The reason I still don't have it is I'm a bit afraid of the AKM sound. All the DAC's I've owned with this chip tend to soften the music somewhat, like wrapping it up in some kind of 'silk', that I dislike very much, it takes the 'bite' from the music, unlike ESS that deliver it straight to your face. I know it can be the different implementations of the DAC's I've had and maybe RME is perfectly transparent, no idea, if I decide to buy it will see if that's the case or not. 

I see there is talk about CD vs Tidal, and I'd like to share my experience regarding internet PC streaming. My modem is with fiber optics from outside, so that means no electrical noise is traveling from outside to my PC. The modem is powered by a cheap switching mode PSU. I looked at the specs for the PSU and got a Linear Power Supply, nothing fancy, a 90 Euro one to see if there is a difference. And the difference was so massive that those have to be the best money I've spent on any audio upgrade so far. All the harshness from my music is gone, everything sounds amazing. You can try this yourself before buying the linear PSU, load a song, play it and while its playing unplug the modem and see if there is a difference. For me it was, but not all modems are the same and it's best to test it out. I don't even have to try CD anymore since streaming is so easy, every song at your finger tips, and now with the harshness gone I can't really find anything bad about it.


----------



## WildStyle-R11

linearly said:


> I've been eyeing the RME for quite some time now. Was so close to buying it but it went out of stock for version 2 updating, so no regrets here. The reason I still don't have it is I'm a bit afraid of the AKM sound. All the DAC's I've owned with this chip tend to soften the music somewhat, like wrapping it up in some kind of 'silk', that I dislike very much, it takes the 'bite' from the music, unlike ESS that deliver it straight to your face. I know it can be the different implementations of the DAC's I've had and maybe RME is perfectly transparent, no idea, if I decide to buy it will see if that's the case or not.
> 
> I see there is talk about CD vs Tidal, and I'd like to share my experience regarding internet PC streaming. My modem is with fiber optics from outside, so that means no electrical noise is traveling from outside to my PC. The modem is powered by a cheap switching mode PSU. I looked at the specs for the PSU and got a Linear Power Supply, nothing fancy, a 90 Euro one to see if there is a difference. And the difference was so massive that those have to be the best money I've spent on any audio upgrade so far. All the harshness from my music is gone, everything sounds amazing. You can try this yourself before buying the linear PSU, load a song, play it and while its playing unplug the modem and see if there is a difference. For me it was, but not all modems are the same and it's best to test it out. I don't even have to try CD anymore since streaming is so easy, every song at your finger tips, and now with the harshness gone I can't really find anything bad about it.



I have 2 AKM Dac's, one in my CD player, that I have used and the one in RME, they both are smooth, or how you would put it "Silky". In my opinion what sound you get out of it comes down to your AMP and headphones. I personally find that any Sabre dac is just too bright. Unless you are getting the RME for the EQ, probably avoid as I'm pretty sure if you don't like the sound of AKM, you won't like this one either. If you are sure you like your headphones then you can still try the RME, as I said, I believe that AKM DAC's just don't alter the sound.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

linearly said:


> I've been eyeing the RME for quite some time now. Was so close to buying it but it went out of stock for version 2 updating, so no regrets here. The reason I still don't have it is I'm a bit afraid of the AKM sound. All the DAC's I've owned with this chip tend to soften the music somewhat, like wrapping it up in some kind of 'silk', that I dislike very much, it takes the 'bite' from the music, unlike ESS that deliver it straight to your face. I know it can be the different implementations of the DAC's I've had and maybe RME is perfectly transparent, no idea, if I decide to buy it will see if that's the case or not.
> 
> I see there is talk about CD vs Tidal, and I'd like to share my experience regarding internet PC streaming. My modem is with fiber optics from outside, so that means no electrical noise is traveling from outside to my PC. The modem is powered by a cheap switching mode PSU. I looked at the specs for the PSU and got a Linear Power Supply, nothing fancy, a 90 Euro one to see if there is a difference. And the difference was so massive that those have to be the best money I've spent on any audio upgrade so far. All the harshness from my music is gone, everything sounds amazing. You can try this yourself before buying the linear PSU, load a song, play it and while its playing unplug the modem and see if there is a difference. For me it was, but not all modems are the same and it's best to test it out. I don't even have to try CD anymore since streaming is so easy, every song at your finger tips, and now with the harshness gone I can't really find anything bad about it.



I think the RME is more on the transparent side. I have an Oppo 205 and an Audiolab 8300CD which both run ESS chips. The Oppo uses the 9038 Pro and the Audiolab uses the 9018 Pro. My impression is the ESS 9018 is very musical, maybe even more to my taste than the 9038. I have read comments by other people saying the 9018 doesn't sound like a typical ESS chip. So even between ESS chips there does not appear to be just one sound. I think the power supply and other factors can affect the sound quality a lot, and the Audiolab has a serious heavy duty power supply.

In the short time I have had the RME (new version) I'm convinced it is not a good pairing with the HD 600s I have. The other night I was playing a George Benson album and it was unlistenable due to the hot treble. This is so totally contrary to what I know about the HD 600s. I don't think it's the AKM chip causing this, I guess it is more likely to be the headamp. On the other hand, the RME made my HD 25s sing in a way I never imagined was possible. If you want a DAC to use just with phones I think you really need to spend some hours listening to avoid an expensive mistake. If you plan to run it into an integrated amp I can't imagine anything coming close to the sound and features at this price. Anyway I think there are too many variables to say if you don't like the AKM sound you shouldn't buy the RME.

I like Tidal Masters so I'm going to buy the Brooklyn DAC+ as soon as I can get the money. It's twice the price of the RME but it supports MQA. I plan on keeping them both unless one is obviously better than the other and I'm not expecting that to happen.


----------



## oqvist

linearly said:


> I've been eyeing the RME for quite some time now. Was so close to buying it but it went out of stock for version 2 updating, so no regrets here. The reason I still don't have it is I'm a bit afraid of the AKM sound. All the DAC's I've owned with this chip tend to soften the music somewhat, like wrapping it up in some kind of 'silk', that I dislike very much, it takes the 'bite' from the music, unlike ESS that deliver it straight to your face. I know it can be the different implementations of the DAC's I've had and maybe RME is perfectly transparent, no idea, if I decide to buy it will see if that's the case or not.
> 
> I see there is talk about CD vs Tidal, and I'd like to share my experience regarding internet PC streaming. My modem is with fiber optics from outside, so that means no electrical noise is traveling from outside to my PC. The modem is powered by a cheap switching mode PSU. I looked at the specs for the PSU and got a Linear Power Supply, nothing fancy, a 90 Euro one to see if there is a difference. And the difference was so massive that those have to be the best money I've spent on any audio upgrade so far. All the harshness from my music is gone, everything sounds amazing. You can try this yourself before buying the linear PSU, load a song, play it and while its playing unplug the modem and see if there is a difference. For me it was, but not all modems are the same and it's best to test it out. I don't even have to try CD anymore since streaming is so easy, every song at your finger tips, and now with the harshness gone I can't really find anything bad about it.


Interesting. I have fibre so less problems I imagine though it goes through a router? But will look hook straight to my pc just for fun. I also tried some with my Audio GD reference 9 but have not really dig deep to it yet. But there I can set sample rates in windows and is not looked at 96. It don´t have a display though like the rme showing what bitrate I actually run.


----------



## linearly

WildStyle-R11 said:


> I personally find that any Sabre dac is just too bright. Unless you are getting the RME for the EQ, probably avoid as I'm pretty sure if you don't like the sound of AKM



I don't dislike AKM sound, I really love transparency, and ESS chips give that with added brightness, but probably implementation is more important on the sound then the DAC chip itself. Also I think RME has the best implemented AKM chip to date, so I ought to give it a try and see if I like it.



gimmeheadroom said:


> I think the RME is more on the transparent side. I have an Oppo 205 and an Audiolab 8300CD which both run ESS chips. The Oppo uses the 9038 Pro and the Audiolab uses the 9018 Pro. My impression is the ESS 9018 is very musical, maybe even more to my taste than the 9038. I have read comments by other people saying the 9018 doesn't sound like a typical ESS chip. So even between ESS chips there does not appear to be just one sound. I think the power supply and other factors can affect the sound quality a lot, and the Audiolab has a serious heavy duty power supply.



That's so good to hear, if RME is more clear then the Oppo 205 it means implementation is more important. There is a youtube video with a sound demo comparing RME and XDUOO XD05 with Fostex TH909 headphones, both with AKM 4490 chips, but imo they sound totally different, RME is transparent and the Xduoo is exactly as I would describe the silky sound. 



gimmeheadroom said:


> In the short time I have had the RME (new version) I'm convinced it is not a good pairing with the HD 600s I have. The other night I was playing a George Benson album and it was unlistenable due to the hot treble. This is so totally contrary to what I know about the HD 600s



My headphones are HD650's so I have to think if the amp part of the RME is causing the hot treble. Maybe its something else in the chain, the source, the cable etc. I had the same issue with Oppo HA2 SE that uses ESS9018 chip, at times the treble was very hot with some tracks, but since I removed the stock psu from the internet modem with a linear psu the treble is silky smooth now, harshness is almost completly gone. 

Thank you both for the advice, the only way I can know for sure is if I give RME a try, everyone has different tastes when it comes to audio. If I get the RME will give an update with my impressions.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

linearly said:


> My headphones are HD650's so I have to think if the amp part of the RME is causing the hot treble. Maybe its something else in the chain, the source, the cable etc. I had the same issue with Oppo HA2 SE that uses ESS9018 chip, at times the treble was very hot with some tracks, but since I removed the stock psu from the internet modem with a linear psu the treble is silky smooth now, harshness is almost completly gone.
> 
> Thank you both for the advice, the only way I can know for sure is if I give RME a try, everyone has different tastes when it comes to audio. If I get the RME will give an update with my impressions.



Just wanted to say that I run my HD-600 and HD-650 with the ADI-2 and, personally, I do not hear any hot treble. Compared to the m900 and Mojo, the Sennheisers are clearer (not bright) and with a bit more impact on the RME.


----------



## bryceu

I’ve never got the notion of hot treble from the RME. I also wouldn’t describe the sound as soft/silky. The AMP portion of the RME is not going to be as refined and crisp as the actual output of the DAC due to its limitations as an amp, but if hooked up to something revealing like a THX amp, I don’t think the RME is not soft at all, but also not harsh in the least. Compared to Schiit Multibit (not Sabre obviously but still), the RME is more refined and crisp.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Dec 5, 2019)

oqvist said:


> Interesting. I have fibre so less problems I imagine though it goes through a router? But will look hook straight to my pc just for fun. I also tried some with my Audio GD reference 9 but have not really dig deep to it yet. But there I can set sample rates in windows and is not looked at 96. It don´t have a display though like the rme showing what bitrate I actually run.



I would definitely recommend running the RME off USB. Optical and coax cut off at 24/192. I use Foobar to play SACD rips and USB can do DSD easily.



linearly said:


> I don't dislike AKM sound, I really love transparency, and ESS chips give that with added brightness, but probably implementation is more important on the sound then the DAC chip itself. Also I think RME has the best implemented AKM chip to date, so I ought to give it a try and see if I like it.
> 
> That's so good to hear, if RME is more clear then the Oppo 205 it means implementation is more important. There is a youtube video with a sound demo comparing RME and XDUOO XD05 with Fostex TH909 headphones, both with AKM 4490 chips, but imo they sound totally different, RME is transparent and the Xduoo is exactly as I would describe the silky sound.



You can surely brighten up the RME because it has DSP EQ. I did not mean to say the RME is clearer or better in any way than the Oppo. I have not tried to make a critical comparison. The Oppo 205 is deadly clear. But the RME has impressed me as being extremely musical yet not coloring anything.



linearly said:


> My headphones are HD650's so I have to think if the amp part of the RME is causing the hot treble. Maybe its something else in the chain, the source, the cable etc. I had the same issue with Oppo HA2 SE that uses ESS9018 chip, at times the treble was very hot with some tracks, but since I removed the stock psu from the internet modem with a linear psu the treble is silky smooth now, harshness is almost completly gone.



The Audeze LCD-2C I have gets along superbly with the RME. The HD 25s were out of this world considering what they are. I think some headphones just get along better with certain amps. I have several other headamps but I haven't tried to run the RME into them.



linearly said:


> Thank you both for the advice, the only way I can know for sure is if I give RME a try, everyone has different tastes when it comes to audio. If I get the RME will give an update with my impressions.



Agreed.


----------



## oqvist

Only responsible for the first quote


----------



## gimmeheadroom

oqvist said:


> Only responsible for the first quote



Sorry, fixed, thanks


----------



## robm321

gimmeheadroom said:


> I would definitely recommend running the RME off USB. Optical and coax cut off at 24/192. I use Foobar to play SACD rips and USB can do DSD easily.



Whoa! I wasn't aware of optical and coax being limited. Good to know.


----------



## Tennessee (Dec 5, 2019)

linearly said:


> I've been eyeing the RME for quite some time now. Was so close to buying it but it went out of stock for version 2 updating, so no regrets here. The reason I still don't have it is I'm a bit afraid of the AKM sound. All the DAC's I've owned with this chip tend to soften the music somewhat, like wrapping it up in some kind of 'silk', that I dislike very much, it takes the 'bite' from the music, unlike ESS that deliver it straight to your face. I know it can be the different implementations of the DAC's I've had and maybe RME is perfectly transparent, no idea, if I decide to buy it will see if that's the case or not.
> 
> I see there is talk about CD vs Tidal, and I'd like to share my experience regarding internet PC streaming. My modem is with fiber optics from outside, so that means no electrical noise is traveling from outside to my PC. The modem is powered by a cheap switching mode PSU. I looked at the specs for the PSU and got a Linear Power Supply, nothing fancy, a 90 Euro one to see if there is a difference. And the difference was so massive that those have to be the best money I've spent on any audio upgrade so far. All the harshness from my music is gone, everything sounds amazing. You can try this yourself before buying the linear PSU, load a song, play it and while its playing unplug the modem and see if there is a difference. For me it was, but not all modems are the same and it's best to test it out. I don't even have to try CD anymore since streaming is so easy, every song at your finger tips, and now with the harshness gone I can't really find anything bad about it.


It's not chip sound but it's implementation I have three akm dacs and rme sounds the softest. It's also not amp HP section becouse I run them into high end amp. I use rme only for speakers or cans that I know are too  analitical.


----------



## XERO1

https://darko.audio/2019/12/rme-quietly-update-their-adi-2-dac/


----------



## dc71

Tennessee said:


> It's not chip sound but it's implementation I have three akm dacs and rme sounds the softest. It's also not amp HP section becouse I run them into high end amp. I use rme only for speakers or cans that I know are too  analitical.



What filter do you use? I was using the slow filter, but found that others firmed up the dynamics and transient attack, I guess meaning that in my system the slow filter sounds relatively softer/less punchy I've settled on SD slow filter as the best sounding in my system.

I run Adi 2 DAC directly into Mackie hr624 MK2 speakers and it sounds great. It replaced a chord Qutest as I need the EQ to correct some bass modes in my room.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I think you could probably spend a lot of time listening to one album or one track and pick the best filter for it. I'm leaving mine on the default because it is a good default and anyway I don't like to spend time monkeying with settings. But I admit the other night when my HD 600s were drilling holes in my skull from treble I found Slow help tame it. But not enough...so off to the headphone shop we go


----------



## Tennessee

dc71 said:


> What filter do you use? I was using the slow filter, but found that others firmed up the dynamics and transient attack, I guess meaning that in my system the slow filter sounds relatively softer/less punchy I've settled on SD slow filter as the best sounding in my system.
> 
> I run Adi 2 DAC directly into Mackie hr624 MK2 speakers and it sounds great. It replaced a chord Qutest as I need the EQ to correct some bass modes in my room.


I use sharp and SD sharp, becouse they have best dynamics and timbre, but with something like your speakers I would be using slow or NOS.


----------



## oqvist

I am starting to investigate the settings for this. I am not a tweaker so it´s really quite scary. I have this manual https://www.archiv.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dac_e.pdf

Now is there a rme adi-2 for dummies 

I played with the balance controls and just that was quite effective and had very much the desired effect. I put treble to +6 and it really did bring the flutes forward listening to Dana Dragomir.  I thought they where a bit recessed on my current headphones. I don´t see exactly which frequencies is adjusted by treble vs bass controls? Does treble also include the midrange?
Next step is understanding how to use the equalizer. I do have a behringer deq 2496 but it´s redundant by now I suppose? Dunno if it´s easier to operate it has even more knobs but it´s cool since it also got a microphone. There is a reason I never used it...

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro//report/hp/kennerton/kennerton-magni/kennerton-magni_def.png
with such a frequency response how would you eq it in the rme with the goal neutrality?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I guess the obvious thing to do would be to eq in the reverse direction of the frequency response chart with the intent of getting everything to 0.

I tried something similar last night with my new Fostex TR-X00 and it worked pretty well. TBH I still have no clue about how to use the EQ settings. Somebody who actually figured it out could probably do it in 2 minutes.


----------



## oqvist

Some info from the manual. What mode is recommended?

Band 1. Peak, Shelf, High Cut or High Pass (Low Cut)?
All filters are adjustable from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, at a Q of 0.5 to 9.9. Cut/Pass have a fixed 12 dB/oct filter steepness.

Band 5 Type Available settings are Peak, Shelf or High Cut. High Cut is adjustable from 200 Hz to 20 kHz, at a Q of 0.5 to 5.0 and a fixed 12 dB/oct steepness.

Band 1-5 Q Quality factor is adjustable from 0.5 to 9.9 in bands 1 to 3, and 0.5 to 5.0 in bands 4 and 5, in steps of 0.1 dB. This equals a bandwidth setting of 2.54 (0.5), 0.29 (5.0) and 0.

Also what is safe levels. 6 db increase/decrease max would be considered safe?


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Dec 9, 2019)

Like I said, I have no idea 

I just kept pushing and turning until I got what I wanted  I had a sense that the headphones had a V and I made the shape in the reverse of what I was hearing and it worked pretty well. It's great that the DAC has the option to turn EQ on and off quickly without losing the setting so you can make a good comparison.

So for the Fostex I was listening to I left the bass alone, I increased the midrange, and decreased the treble just slightly, just watching the curve on the EQ screens.

There is no unsafe level as long as you don't blow your brains out or hear distortion.


----------



## bryceu

oqvist said:


> Some info from the manual. What mode is recommended?
> 
> Band 1. Peak, Shelf, High Cut or High Pass (Low Cut)?
> All filters are adjustable from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, at a Q of 0.5 to 9.9. Cut/Pass have a fixed 12 dB/oct filter steepness.
> ...



Peak filters are going to be used to increase/decrease a specific region. Say your headphones have a dip at 3khz, you would add a peak filter that boosts the 3khz range. 

The Q factor; adjusts how wide/narrow the peak filter is applied. The higher the Q value, the narrower the peak, and the lower the wider. For example if you have a peak filter at 3khz, with a really low Q factor, it will extend the peak further towards ~1khz and ~5khz. If you use a really high Q factor it will keep the peak narrower on 3khz, extending only to ~2.5khz and 3.5khz.

A Shelf adds either a boost or cut to an entire region up to, or past, that point. So if I want to boost the entire bass frequency from 0hz to 200hz, I could add a shelf at 200hz with +2.0db, and it will raise everything up to 200hz by 2.0db. 

The PEQ on the RME seems daunting at first but it's really quite manageable with the manual and a little tinkering. 

I'd love to offer more assistance if you stumble setting up your desired EQ.

For your specific headphone needs, you'll want to boost any frequencies that has a big dip, and lower any frequencies with big spikes.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Nice, maybe do a tutorial video? I watched the RME official video but my eyes glazed over


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> Nice, maybe do a tutorial video? I watched the RME official video but my eyes glazed over



There is a specific one on EQ. It's very easy to follow. If your eyes glaze over watching that... some questions need to be asked, and not about RME.  Kidding. But it should be alright if you watch it a couple of times.

This is the 5:34 one, better than the 3 minute video:


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I think I saw the 3 minute one but I'm not sure. I just don't get all the button turning and pushing. If your eyes didn't glaze over I can only conclude you are a spy for RME


----------



## hotjava13

I had to watch it quite a few times before I got things down, I still am a little fuzzy on the eq stuff but im getting the desirable sound ! I do like the RME through the LYR 3... Bit of warmth. Switching back and forth the RME head amp is more accurate .


----------



## bryceu

If you have a basic understanding of how EQ works, it definitely helps you understand how to build an EQ on the RME. But yea with a little time the RME isn't too bad to navigate. 

I also find the RME to be more exacting than the Lyr 3. Stage of the Lyr 3 is bigger though, and a more robust/powerful sound.


----------



## hotjava13

XERO1 said:


> https://darko.audio/2019/12/rme-quietly-update-their-adi-2-dac/




This hobby is going to kill me, I purchased my RME 3 months ago and now they decide to update the DAC. Think I have deeper issues, I just have to have the next best thing!
Oh well, so who is going to do a comparison review ?


----------



## XERO1

hotjava13 said:


> This hobby is going to kill me, I purchased my RME 3 months ago and now they decide to update the DAC. Think I have deeper issues, I just have to have the next best thing!
> Oh well, so who is going to do a comparison review ?


Honestly, the audible differences between the two will be microscopic.  I personally wouldn't bother getting the new model if you already have the original.


----------



## hotjava13

Ok, thank you for the piece of mind.. and my wallet thanks you as well!


----------



## bryceu

hotjava13 said:


> This hobby is going to kill me, I purchased my RME 3 months ago and now they decide to update the DAC. Think I have deeper issues, I just have to have the next best thing!
> Oh well, so who is going to do a comparison review ?


Yea it’s not really anything to worry about. Your version is just as good as the refreshed one on an actually-audible-level. New remote looks nice, but you can buy that separately I believe. Enjoy your device, it’s a good one!


----------



## relevate (Dec 9, 2019)

mixman said:


> Yeah I see amps like the Violectric V281 and just think hmmm, but so far as right now, its a little overkill for me unless I do get that Susvara. But would a revealing HP like a Utopia need something like that as an amp?


Don't underestimate the impact of a good amp, it makes a real difference in sound, even for mid-range cans.


----------



## greyscale75

Just placed my order with Quivers. Will ship Dec. 16. Price $1149.00 USD plus tax & free shipping.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

greyscale75 said:


> Just placed my order with Quivers. Will ship Dec. 16. Price $1149.00 USD plus tax & free shipping.



Congrats!

It kills me how you guys in the U.S. get EU-made products for the same price as here (after conversion) and we get U.S. products for 15-30% more... it's almost like there's a one-way free trade agreement.


----------



## bryceu

Yea in that sense we are quite fortunate. Can't say I've ever paid any import tax.


----------



## mixman

relevate said:


> Don't underestimate the impact of a good amp, it makes a real difference in sound, even for mid-range cans.


Wow were did you snatch that quote from? Actually now I do intend to get a better amp and premium used amps are coming in for less and less nowadays.


----------



## relevate (Dec 10, 2019)

Can you recommend a particular linear power supply for that?


----------



## Luckbad

relevate said:


> Can you recommend a particular linear power supply for that?


You don't need one. The power goes to an internal SMPS and is then filtered. 

If you're concerned with noise entering the unit, get a battery pack.


----------



## PaganDL

@relevate,

To echo @Luckbad, a good powerboard will also reduce any potential electrical noise though the ADI 2 Series already has good filtering in place.

Hope you both have a great day !


----------



## MagnusH

relevate said:


> Can you recommend a particular linear power supply for that?


The dac is fairly good at cleaning power internally, but power supply does matter. I use a sealed lead-acid battery (12v, 17Ah) which lasts more than one day, probably 2 days, so I charge when I sleep. Cost of battery + charger was around $100 in total.


----------



## bryceu

mixman said:


> Wow were did you snatch that quote from? Actually now I do intend to get a better amp and premium used amps are coming in for less and less nowadays.


Fwiw, I have been enjoying the Mjolnir2 more regularly than the THX. Not exactly new information that I haven't shared already but, an update on my situation with the THX vs Mj2.

If I'm casually listening (background listening while studying, working etc), the Mjolnir 2 is the far more pleasing amp and it actually draws my attention to the music more often than the THX. If I'm casually listening on the THX it kinda just goes unnoticed in the background. Something about the Mj2 just wants me to be engaged when it's playing. 

On the other hand, if I'm actively/critically listening, I do find the detail capability of the THX to be superior, especially treble discernment against the super black-ground of the THX. 

Again, I think the Verite is a bit too relaxed to be optimally paired with the THX for casual listening enjoyment. The engaging mids of the Mj2 are simply more desirable than the increase in resolve from the THX. The increased resolution is mostly noticeable when actively listening for it, where as passively it goes unnoticed. 

If I was to move to a new solution beyond Mj2/THX, I think I'd be in your camp, looking at the V281 or the GSX-mini. 

But I'm half tempted to keep the THX and go for a BHC+SB again and get some really sweet/lush rolls in with it.


----------



## luis.ryot22 (Dec 10, 2019)

Hello!  Some questions, I want to get the ADI-2, since I have an LCD-2 on the way, and I don't know if anyone has tried this device with a tablet, specifically the Galaxt Tab S5e. As the main equipment it occupies my PC and secondary, it moves this tablet by USB with Tidal. My question is whether they know if everything will be fine? will I miss something? Will I have any noise or interference from being a tablet? I hope someone has some similar experience and can guide me. Greetings from Chile and excuse my English


----------



## bryceu

MagnusH said:


> The dac is fairly good at cleaning power internally, but power supply does matter. I use a sealed lead-acid battery (12v, 17Ah) which lasts more than one day, probably 2 days, so I charge when I sleep. Cost of battery + charger was around $100 in total.



Do you have a link to this specific battery you have? And so you're running the RME strictly on battery power, no AC power supply, correct?


----------



## MagnusH

bryceu said:


> Do you have a link to this specific battery you have? And so you're running the RME strictly on battery power, no AC power supply, correct?


Lots of places sells them, for example here: https://batterymarket.eu/en/panasonic-12v-17ah-lead-acid-battery-lc-xd1217pg-vrla
Internal resistance is 12 milli ohm, which is important for a power supply, although might not be that crucial for a DAC.

But any 12v 15+Ah will work, I would stay away from batteries that has control electronics in them though, like a lot of LiFePo4 batteries has.


----------



## mixman

bryceu said:


> Fwiw, I have been enjoying the Mjolnir2 more regularly than the THX. Not exactly new information that I haven't shared already but, an update on my situation with the THX vs Mj2.
> 
> If I'm casually listening (background listening while studying, working etc), the Mjolnir 2 is the far more pleasing amp and it actually draws my attention to the music more often than the THX. If I'm casually listening on the THX it kinda just goes unnoticed in the background. Something about the Mj2 just wants me to be engaged when it's playing.
> 
> ...


I guess it goes back to my feeling here is that neither amp is absolutely better than the other, just different flavors. Which is cool too. I think with the Verite maybe something like a GSX mini or V281 on the SS side or a Pendant, Woo WA 22 on the tube side might do just as well. I would be more inclined to get a really good tube amp like those because while I may want the lush, I wouldn't want to lose any of the detail the Verite are cable of with some of the lower end tube amps.


----------



## hotjava13

bryceu said:


> Yea it’s not really anything to worry about. Your version is just as good as the refreshed one on an actually-audible-level. New remote looks nice, but you can buy that separately I believe. Enjoy your device, it’s a good one!




Awesome, the new remote will allow you to recall eq curves...a quick firmware update and in all set!....Thanks


----------



## gimmeheadroom

luis.ryot22 said:


> Hello!  Some questions, I want to get the ADI-2, since I have an LCD-2 on the way, and I don't know if anyone has tried this device with a tablet, specifically the Galaxt Tab S5e. As the main equipment it occupies my PC and secondary, it moves this tablet by USB with Tidal. My question is whether they know if everything will be fine? will I miss something? Will I have any noise or interference from being a tablet? I hope someone has some similar experience and can guide me. Greetings from Chile and excuse my English



Hola amigo. I can't answer about running from a tablet but I can confirm the ADI-2 and the LCD-2C is a very happy marriage 

If USB OTG works I don't expect any noise or interference.


----------



## bryceu

I get some noise from USB when using the RME + external tube amps. It’s the usb from my computer though as I get no noise from the usb on my MacBook Pro. Also the noise is killed out by most solid state amps, only the tubeys seem to pass it along.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

That does not sound like what he is talking about. I guess he means to run headphones right off the RME.

As far as your issue, try running the amp with different cables and from a different wall socket than the computer.


----------



## bryceu

I was just stating my usb noise situation, it’s also fixed by running optical from my pc instead. 

Not really a bother.


----------



## luis.ryot22

Hi! thanks for your help. I am really a maniac with noise ajaja my idea is to have as little as possible in this travel configuration, ADI-2 -> Android tablet -> USB OTG -> LCD-2 If someone else were to occupy something similar, I would appreciate your comments
Regards


----------



## Afsa

Hi Guys 

Im using my ADI 2 FS to run my Feliks Euforia. I was wondering if anyone knows if there are optimal settings for pushing the signal to the Amp?


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Dec 16, 2019)

I wouldn't change anything unless your headphones don't sound right to you. Would be interested to know how you like the Feliks. I might be in the market for another tube headamp to drive off a few DACs.

I would run the RME output at 0db or whatever the reference level is and control it with the amp. I would not EQ until something bothered me at the far end.


----------



## Afsa

gimmeheadroom said:


> I wouldn't change anything unless your headphones don't sound right to you. Would be interested to know how you like the Feliks. I might be in the market for another tube headamp to drive off a few DACs.
> 
> I would run the RME output at 0db or whatever the reference level is and control it with the amp. I would not EQ until something bothered me at the far end.



Oh really at 0db? Whats the reason for this? 
Well the Euforia is one of the best things i have heard. While choosing my headphones(Meze Empyrean) i was testing a lot of cans with a Chord Dave. And i must say that ,at least for my taste, the Euforia is superior. 
But I dont really have the experience to review Amps. I just try stuff and pick what sounds nice to me XD. 
There is a very long thread on the Euforia though: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/   A lot of people with a lot more expertise have tested it.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Afsa said:


> Oh really at 0db? Whats the reason for this?
> Well the Euforia is one of the best things i have heard. While choosing my headphones(Meze Empyrean) i was testing a lot of cans with a Chord Dave. And i must say that ,at least for my taste, the Euforia is superior.
> But I dont really have the experience to review Amps. I just try stuff and pick what sounds nice to me XD.
> There is a very long thread on the Euforia though: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/   A lot of people with a lot more expertise have tested it.



Because it's supposed to be the lowest-noise way to use digital output. That way you control the volume at the amp. I run all my digital sources 100%.

Glad you like the Euforia! I saw the Feliks threads and am going through them. I don't think I'm gonna spend the 2000 euros for that one though. I might get the Expressivo though.


----------



## Afsa

gimmeheadroom said:


> Because it's supposed to be the lowest-noise way to use digital output. That way you control the volume at the amp. I run all my digital sources 100%.
> 
> Glad you like the Euforia! I saw the Feliks threads and am going through them. I don't think I'm gonna spend the 2000 euros for that one though. I might get the Expressivo though.



In the end its always the budget..... But i would give the Elise a shot. Not far behind the Euforia. And then maybe some different tubes. The result could be very close or even the same.


----------



## bryceu

Afsa said:


> Oh really at 0db? Whats the reason for this?
> Well the Euforia is one of the best things i have heard. While choosing my headphones(Meze Empyrean) i was testing a lot of cans with a Chord Dave. And i must say that ,at least for my taste, the Euforia is superior.
> But I dont really have the experience to review Amps. I just try stuff and pick what sounds nice to me XD.
> There is a very long thread on the Euforia though: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/   A lot of people with a lot more expertise have tested it.



Euforia is excellent! One of my favorite amps from everything I sampled at CanJam this year.



gimmeheadroom said:


> Because it's supposed to be the lowest-noise way to use digital output. That way you control the volume at the amp. I run all my digital sources 100%.
> 
> Glad you like the Euforia! I saw the Feliks threads and am going through them. I don't think I'm gonna spend the 2000 euros for that one though. I might get the Expressivo though.



I agree that 0.0db is the best way to run the RME into an amp unless you need pre-amp functionality from the DAC if your gain is really high (like in the case with Liquid Platinum), however I think that modern digital gain control no longer suffers any degradation of signal like devices did in the past. But I don't have the source of this info. From my experience I've noticed no reprecussions in signal quality with negative volume positions on the RME.

I think the Elise would be a better option than the Espressivo. I listened to the entire Feliks line-up at CanJam this year and while the Euforia was definitely the king, the Elise wasn't too far off. The lower tier amps from Feliks though did not impress.


----------



## greyscale75

Just arrived.


----------



## Afsa

greyscale75 said:


> Just arrived.



oh its a V2. Do you maybe have a V1 and can compare?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Thanks @Afsa and @bryceu 

If it gets too close to 1000 euros I'll probably go Violectric instead. Still not sure at this point.

I'm looking for a good, transparent tube amp with plenty of power. The Expressivo looked better from that standpoint but if it doesn't sound good there is no point.


----------



## greyscale75

Afsa said:


> oh its a V2. Do you maybe have a V1 and can compare?


Sorrry,no V1


----------



## bryceu

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks @Afsa and @bryceu
> 
> If it gets too close to 1000 euros I'll probably go Violectric instead. Still not sure at this point.
> 
> I'm looking for a good, transparent tube amp with plenty of power. The Expressivo looked better from that standpoint but if it doesn't sound good there is no point.


It wasn’t bad sounding, just not a standout. I can’t recall any specifics since it didn’t leave much impression.


----------



## Satx1

Afsa said:


> oh its a V2. Do you maybe have a V1 and can compare?



So I guess you know about the V2... I just signed up to head-fi to specifically ask if a new version had been released. B&H and Sweetwater both list the rme dac as preorder only and the previous (same?) one as discontinued. Do you know what’s different? 

Thanks and sorry if this has been discussed, but I can’t find anything so far.


----------



## bryceu

Satx1 said:


> So I guess you know about the V2... I just signed up to head-fi to specifically ask if a new version had been released. B&H and Sweetwater both list the rme dac as preorder only and the previous (same?) one as discontinued. Do you know what’s different?
> 
> Thanks and sorry if this has been discussed, but I can’t find anything so far.


The newer version has the newest AKM chip version. It provides measurable improvements from a technical standpoint, but not much in terms of real performance. The newer version also has a new remote with more features.


----------



## Tennessee

Did adi 2 pro get a refresh too? Or still old DAC inside?


----------



## bryceu

Tennessee said:


> Did adi 2 pro get a refresh too? Or still old DAC inside?


I don’t have a source for the refresh yet but I believe it is coming soon as all the old revisions are being marked down $500 right now.


----------



## Satx1

Wait, the ADI-2 dac is marked down $500? Where can I get one at that price? Or just the pro? 

Also what additional remote options were added to the V2?


----------



## bryceu

I know a lot of EU places had ADI-2 DAC marked down, but not so much in the US. The Pro has been marked down on many sites here in US though.


----------



## Satx1

bryceu said:


> I know a lot of EU places had ADI-2 DAC marked down, but not so much in the US. The Pro has been marked down on many sites here in US though.



Ok, yeah I’ve seen the pro marked down for a little while. Hopefully with the release of V2, V1 stock will see a good discount soon


----------



## Sirfalot

Satx1 said:


> Wait, the ADI-2 dac is marked down $500? Where can I get one at that price? Or just the pro?
> 
> Also what additional remote options were added to the V2?





bryceu said:


> I know a lot of EU places had ADI-2 DAC marked down, but not so much in the US. The Pro has been marked down on many sites here in US though.



Hi, I am looking to buy one in the UK, best price I have found is £699 - do you know anywhere selling cheaper than this. I would be grateful for any help.

Many thanks


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@Sirfalot That is a VERY good price. I haven't seen it sold that low anywhere before. Who is selling it? And is the old or the new version?


----------



## bryceu

Sirfalot said:


> Hi, I am looking to buy one in the UK, best price I have found is £699 - do you know anywhere selling cheaper than this. I would be grateful for any help.
> 
> Many thanks


I do not sorry. I am not up to date on prices, I just know that when the newer version was announced, a lot of retailers cut price on the older revision. I think 699 seems about right with the discount on older revision.


----------



## malocadi

greyscale75 said:


> Just arrived.


Where were you able to buy this? B&H has the RME Dac on preorder but it's not clear if it'll be V2, only reason I haven't pulled the trigger yet.


----------



## Satx1

I have to believe it’s the v2. They show the old one as discontinued.


----------



## Sirfalot

CaptainFantastic said:


> @Sirfalot That is a VERY good price. I haven't seen it sold that low anywhere before. Who is selling it? And is the old or the new version?



I am not sure if it is the old or new or even if they have it in stock, I am waiting to hear from them. As soon as I find out I'll let you know.

You can however go to https://kytary.co.uk/rme-adi-2-dac/HN194959/ who have 2 in stock as of this morning for £746


----------



## gimmeheadroom

The remote in that picture looks wrong somehow.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> The remote in that picture looks wrong somehow.



It's the v1 remote, so it's a v1 unit. Still a good price.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> It's the v1 remote, so it's a v1 unit. Still a good price.



I guess it's a judgement call. The latest one is only 125 euros more, including shipping.


----------



## bryceu

malocadi said:


> Where were you able to buy this? B&H has the RME Dac on preorder but it's not clear if it'll be V2, only reason I haven't pulled the trigger yet.


The B&H one should be v2. The remote on the box is the new version. You can call them and ask, they have great customer service from my experience. 

also if the difference was only $125 I would opt for the new version/remote, but if you can save a few hundred usd/euro I would opt for new revision.


----------



## greyscale75

Purchased my V2 from :https://www.rme-usa.com/adi-2-dac.html


----------



## greyscale75 (Dec 27, 2019)

Purchased my V2 from:https://www.rme-usa.com/adi-2-dac.html

Sorry double post. Only one coffee when posted.


----------



## silvahr

How is the sound quality with iPhone feeding ADI?
Can someone share some thoughts?
Thank you in advance.


----------



## frogmeat69

CaptainFantastic said:


> It's the v1 remote, so it's a v1 unit. Still a good price.


That is the new version 2 remote, the v1 is much smaller, I know, I have one.


----------



## frogmeat69

gimmeheadroom said:


> The remote in that picture looks wrong somehow.


It's the new remote for the V2 unit.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Dec 28, 2019)

That is not the v2 remote or if it is, some of the keys and markings are missing from the photo...maybe it's a preproduction stock photo. I got the new version of the RME ADI-2 FS from the 1st batch Thomann.de received about 3 or 4 weeks ago and my remote is different from that pic. I will post a pic when I get back since I'm away for the hols now. If somebody doesn't post one before then.

This post has a pic of the remote which is identical to the one I got.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-thread.868015/page-117#post-15326485


----------



## CaptainFantastic

frogmeat69 said:


> That is the new version 2 remote, the v1 is much smaller, I know, I have one.



I am sorry. I was replying to the message that had this link: https://kytary.co.uk/rme-adi-2-dac/HN194959/ . That is the v1 remote 100%. I know it, because I have it right here, 30 cm from me.


----------



## frogmeat69

gimmeheadroom said:


> That is not the v2 remote or if it is, some of the keys and markings are missing from the photo...maybe it's a preproduction stock photo. I got the new version from the 1st batch Thomann.de received and my remote is different from that pic. I will post a pic when I get back since I'm away for the hols now. If somebody doesn't post one before then.


Well, the original remote is on the first post of this thread, the same remote I have. The remote in the pic looks like the same as new versions I have seen posted like this,


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Dec 28, 2019)

CaptainFantastic said:


> I am sorry. I was replying to the message that had this link: https://kytary.co.uk/rme-adi-2-dac/HN194959/ . That is the v1 remote 100%. I know it, because I have it right here, 30 cm from me.



I was too, I have no idea what the other guys are seeing or talking about it. The pic in the link is totally different from the pic @frogmeat69 just posted yet he seems to be saying the kytary remote is the same as his...

Here is that pic...



I'm totally confused and this time it is not because of beer...


----------



## frogmeat69 (Dec 28, 2019)

Just so I am sure, is this the pic you guys are taliking about??  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-thread.868015/page-124#post-15366049

If not, I am an idiot, carry on, lol.


----------



## WildStyle-R11

It's not that hard lol. The one with less buttons is the old one. The new one has way more buttons.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

frogmeat69 said:


> Just so I am sure, is this the pic you guys are taliking about??  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-thread.868015/page-124#post-15366049



No! And now the mystery is solved.... @CaptainFantastic and I were referring to the pic on the kytary link since the discussion was about a great price which turns out to not be so great since it's V1.. Anyway, out of stock, never to return.


----------



## frogmeat69

gimmeheadroom said:


> No! And now the mystery is solved.... @CaptainFantastic and I were referring to the pic on the kytary link since the discussion was about a great price which turns out to not be so great since it's V1.. Anyway, out of stock, never to return.



I must have missed that post, oops. One thing I do know, I have V1, lol.


----------



## betula

Any RME ADI2 owner had a chance to listen to TT2 and could share a few thoughts?


----------



## bryceu

betula said:


> Any RME ADI2 owner had a chance to listen to TT2 and could share a few thoughts?


Personally I do not. But I’ve seen some people comment on that comparison in this thread before, if you dig deep you’ll find it.


----------



## Darksoul (Jan 15, 2020)

I've contacted the local RME distributor, so I should be doing business some time this month. I'm aiming to get this equipment new, since it's so terrible scarce used. I'm going to sell my old Hugo "gen 1" to ease on the bill. However, lately I've thinking to also sell my Violectric V200, with that I should break even and get some cash for...stuff. However, I would kind of miss the V200. The ADI-2 amp is no slouch and measures better than the V280, which is kind of two V200 in one. I have really loved how the V200 has so far handled everything well. It fed the T1 with authority and it's making the Aiva sound so nice that I wish the T1 sounded that good. What I really like about the V200 is it's distinctly "dark" signature. Granted, with the ADI-2 I could tweak the bass to my heart's content.

Would I be missing some of that extra V200 power compared with the ADI-2? Down the line I would like to get stuff like the Focal Clear, Fostex TH-900, maybe something from Audeze. Is the ADI-2 DAC an adequate replacement; not necessary an upgrade, to the V200?

If my finances ever afford it, I would like to get something like a Phonitor, that would be a true upgrade to the V200. Also, more likely than not, the last AMP I would ever buy...but I digress.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

The ADI-2 amp is fine for Fostex and Audeze. It is not fine for Sennheisers. I don't know anything about the Focals.

I imagine the V280 would walk all over the ADI-2 amp section for headphones that need more power.


----------



## Satcher (Jan 15, 2020)

Darksoul said:


> I've contacted the local RME distributor, so I should be doing business some time this month. I'm aiming to get this equipment new, since it's so terrible scarce used. I'm going to sell my old Hugo "gen 1" to ease on the bill. However, lately I've thinking to also sell my Violectric V200, with that I should break even and get some cash for...stuff. However, I would kind of miss the V200. The ADI-2 amp is no slouch and measures better than the V280, which is kind of two V200 in one. I have really loved how the V200 has so far handled everything well. It fed the T1 with authority and it's making the Aiva sound so nice that I wish the T1 sounded that good. What I really like about the V200 is it's distinctly "dark" signature. Granted, with the ADI-2 I could tweak the bass to my heart's content.
> 
> Would I be missing some of that extra V200 power compared with the ADI-2? Down the line I would like to get stuff like the Focal Clear, Fostex TH-900, maybe something from Audeze. Is the ADI-2 DAC an adequate replacement; not necessary an upgrade, to the V200?
> 
> If my finances ever afford it, I would like to get something like a Phonitor, that would be a true upgrade to the V200. Also, more likely than not, the last AMP I would ever buy...but I digress.



I had both; the V200 definitely has the warmth and power to drive headphones like the Hifiman HE1000 and HD800 with authority as you say; the ADI-2 DAC did however have enough juice for the HD800s with hi-power mode enabled (the volume was set to around -15 db for myself which I thought was sufficiently loud enough); it lends itself more as an analytical tool instead of a musical one on its default settings. Adjusting the bass and treble helped change that perception when desired.

I remember the HE1000s also ran fine off the ADI-2 DAC as well at around -10 db or so (on hi-power mode). It was a bit sibilant though, so I dialed the treble a bit back. The V200 had that musical factor to it that I missed when I would listen strictly off the ADI-2 DAC, but I felt the trade off of having a very transparent integrated amp/dac was ultimately worth it.

I do recall they worked beautifully together and I still desire a V281 to pair with the ADI-2 DAC as the ultimate headphone setup for myself.

One pair of headphones I absolutely loved with the ADI-2 DAC were the Oppo PM-1s, so any warm sounding/easily driven headphones are ideal for the ADI-2 DAC to retain that slam as it isn't a slouch when it comes to the amp section; it's just very clean.


----------



## Tennessee (Jan 24, 2020)

There is new ADI 2 Pro with remote and in black.
"RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition"

Probably got updated DAC chip too?


----------



## musicmaker

I'm trying to connect the unbalanced 1/4" mono output from the RME to a single ended portable amp that accepts a 3.5mm mini. Is anyone familiar with a good quality cable. I can make one but wanted to see what you folks out there use.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Instead of running out of the headphone jack, use an RCA => 3.5mm cable. There are millions to choose from.


----------



## PaganDL

musicmaker said:


> I'm trying to connect the unbalanced 1/4" mono output from the RME to a single ended portable amp that accepts a 3.5mm mini. Is anyone familiar with a good quality cable. I can make one but wanted to see what you folks out there use.




Hi @musicmaker,

I suggest looking for *Cordial Cable's 3.5 to dual TRS cable*, usually can be found at any pro audio shop.

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## Fickle-Friend

Hi please can someone confirm that the ADI-2 has MQA support? Darko says it does but I can't find any information on the RME website? Thanks.


----------



## oqvist

Fickle-Friend said:


> Hi please can someone confirm that the ADI-2 has MQA support? Darko says it does but I can't find any information on the RME website? Thanks.


Desinformation it doesnt


----------



## Fickle-Friend

oqvist said:


> Desinformation it doesnt


see this:
https://darko.audio/2019/12/rme-quietly-update-their-adi-2-dac/


----------



## Tennessee (Jan 30, 2020)

Fickle-Friend said:


> see this:
> https://darko.audio/2019/12/rme-quietly-update-their-adi-2-dac/


https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28204

And btw your link states also no mqa, lol.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

It does not.


----------



## oqvist

Wonder if that remote works with the old version?


----------



## technobear

oqvist said:


> Wonder if that remote works with the old version?


Yes, provided you update to the latest MADIface driver and the latest firmware.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

technobear said:


> Yes, provided you update to the latest MADIface driver and the latest firmware.



Yes indeed, they even sell it seperately as an option. Nice upgrade!


----------



## Hellraiser86

gimmeheadroom said:


> It does not.


If you are replying to the link:

It clearly states that MQA is not supported. But yes the exact words „no MQA“ are really missing 
But if someone reads the full sentence it should be obvious...


----------



## oqvist

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yes indeed, they even sell it seperately as an option. Nice upgrade!


Where to find it in europe for decent price?


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 30, 2020)

Check the RME .de site and/or send an email to RME.

https://www.rme-audio.de/distributors-en.html

When I wrote to them on a different topic I got a response quickly.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Hellraiser86 said:


> If you are replying to the link:
> 
> It clearly states that MQA is not supported. But yes the exact words „no MQA“ are really missing
> But if someone reads the full sentence it should be obvious...



Sorry. It took me like 2 seconds to respond after seeing the question but by the time I posted 3 guys got there ahead of me 

I meant MQA is not supported by RME and I think we discussed it on their forums and they didn't seem interested. Because of that I also bought a Brooklyn...

Damn this hobby is like a black hole for money... billions and billions...


----------



## Hellraiser86

gimmeheadroom said:


> Sorry. It took me like 2 seconds to respond after seeing the question but by the time I posted 3 guys got there ahead of me
> 
> I meant MQA is not supported by RME and I think we discussed it on their forums and they didn't seem interested. Because of that I also bought a Brooklyn...
> 
> Damn this hobby is like a black hole for money... billions and billions...



haha, yes... unfortunately it is. and on top of that is an industry with a lot snakeoil companies - confusing our mind


----------



## Fickle-Friend

Oh man I was looking for a dac with EQ settings with MQA. Feel wounded.


----------



## emlin

Fickle-Friend said:


> Oh man I was looking for a dac with EQ settings with MQA. Feel wounded.




Why are you desperate to listen to a lossy format?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Fickle-Friend said:


> Oh man I was looking for a dac with EQ settings with MQA. Feel wounded.



I think the RME's EQ is unique and it's easy to get spoiled by it. I just checked to see if it would be possible to get digital out from the Brooklyn into the RME but I don't see any obvious way.


----------



## Hellraiser86

Fickle-Friend said:


> Oh man I was looking for a dac with EQ settings with MQA. Feel wounded.


At least at the moment there is no such device. But maybe in some time, if MQA really get a role in the HiFi industry.


----------



## MagnusH

Both Roon and Tidal desktop app can unpack MQA, and then you can use EQ or whatever you like. Yes, you miss out on the second MQA unfold, but that's just an up-sampling so it can be done better (in fact much better) by software anyway.

I had an MQA DAC before I bought the RME DAC, which should indicate how important MQA is.


----------



## malocadi

I've had the RME now for a couple weeks now and I haven't even played with the EQ yet. The number of ways you can configure this DAC is dizzying.


----------



## Tennessee

Mqa is just marketing bs, why ppl care about it so much.
You want hi rez just go lossless 24/192 not some shady compressed unfolding...


----------



## oqvist

24/192 dont get cd quality for tidal. I dont know if MQA do though havent tried it. True 24/192 is another story but its an obscure rarely seen format.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I don't get the hate for MQA and I don't understand why it matters enough to hate it. It is not as if albums are only available in MQA and people can't play their favorites anymore.

Sure compression is dumb in 2020 (and it was dumb in 2010 probably) but MQA sounds good. I have seen some Tidal Masters expand to 24/192. I have no complaints with it


----------



## SupperTime

Where can I find a used one of these


----------



## technobear (Feb 4, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> Where can I find a used one of these


Here: https://www.head-fi.org/forums/source-components-for-sale-trade.6552/?order=post_date

As luck would have it there is one there curently I believe.


----------



## SupperTime

technobear said:


> Here: https://www.head-fi.org/forums/source-components-for-sale-trade.6552/?order=post_date
> 
> As luck would have it there is one there curently I believe.


I can't search the subforum thread, ever since they changed the website a few days back.... How do I find


----------



## SupperTime

As far as sound quality goes. What is this players main weakness. What is a clear step up from this player (taking in account just sound quality)


----------



## Darksoul

SupperTime said:


> As far as sound quality goes. What is this players main weakness. What is a clear step up from this player (taking in account just sound quality)



Allegedly, pretty much nothing.


----------



## SupperTime

Darksoul said:


> Allegedly, pretty much nothing.


Is there a way I can use my phone as a source for this.? Like a digital out to în?


----------



## SupperTime

Tennessee said:


> There is new ADI 2 Pro with remote and in black.
> "RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition"
> 
> Probably got updated DAC chip too?


How do I find out more about this specific model? I can't find any info except the regular model


----------



## technobear

SupperTime said:


> I can't search the subforum thread, ever since they changed the website a few days back.... How do I find


I can't find it now either. It must have sold.

I agree the new simple search is not so useful. There is a button which says 'Everywhere' that you can click and select 'This Forum'. Sadly the results are randomly ordered with respect to date and there seems no way to change that which is not at all helpful.

On the Advanced Search you can select a forum and order by most recent though.


----------



## Infoseeker (Feb 5, 2020)

Silly Question, would getting this dac/amp be able to turn my Lcd-XC into bassheads tuning. Or am I better off getting secondary headphone?

I love this headphone, but want to get it to adapt for certain genres.


----------



## Phoniac

That's easy. Use the included EQ, dial in +12 dB in band 1 set to shelf, frequency 65 Hz, Q 0.8. Turn on High Power mode. I do the same with the LCD-X. If the rumbling is not hard enough dial in another +6 dB from the Bass control...


----------



## makan

Infoseeker said:


> Silly Question, would getting this dac/amp be able to turn my Lcd-XC into bassheads tuning. Or am I better off getting secondary headphone?
> 
> I love this headphone, but want to get it to adapt for certain genres.



I have the XC...you can certainly pump up the low frequencies up more than bass head levels if you want.  I usually put it up about 3db when I am in the mood and there is no distortion...for my LCD-4, I put it up about 5db sometimes and again, no distortion


----------



## SupperTime

How does one increase just the Midbass impact on thr eq here, just the Midbass slam and volume impact, but how without raising the overall bass.


----------



## Infoseeker

SupperTime said:


> How does one increase just the Midbass impact on thr eq here, just the Midbass slam and volume impact, but how without raising the overall bass.



On a parametric equalizer. The Q value is how far of an influence it effects around your marked point-of-interest.

So raise the Q value.


----------



## SupperTime

Infoseeker said:


> On a parametric equalizer. The Q value is how far of an influence it effects around your marked point-of-interest.
> 
> So raise the Q value.


Thanks for the help, and I guess I'm one step closer to my answer but I'm not understanding exactly how


----------



## NehPets

technobear said:


> I can't find it now either. It must have sold.
> 
> I agree the new simple search is not so useful. There is a button which says 'Everywhere' that you can click and select 'This Forum'. Sadly the results are randomly ordered with respect to date and there seems no way to change that which is not at all helpful.
> 
> On the Advanced Search you can select a forum and order by most recent though.


https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-pro-fs-be.html


----------



## NehPets

SupperTime said:


> How do I find out more about this specific model? I can't find any info except the regular model


https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-pro-fs-be.html


----------



## SupperTime

NehPets said:


> https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-pro-fs-be.html


Looking for the 2nd revision DAC model, with the iem insert


----------



## NehPets

SupperTime said:


> Looking for the 2nd revision DAC model, with the iem insert


https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html


----------



## malocadi

SupperTime said:


> Is there a way I can use my phone as a source for this.? Like a digital out to în?


If you're on Android, you can use USB Audio Player Pro with an OTG cable to connect to the RME. The app also has Tidal or quboz integration if you need it


----------



## betula

I have asked RME if there is a sonic difference between the original model with the AK4490 chip and the revision with the AK4493 chip.
This was the answer:

"There is no difference in sound by design. There is measurable difference between the two versions.
But if it is possible to hear any difference is a subjective matter."

This means undetectable difference by ears in my book. So it doesn't really matter which version you get if your only concern is sound quality. 
I am also after a secondhand unit, but the only secondhand one on head-fi is offered for a hefty £700 when brand new units are available for £790 in the UK. The seller refused to lower the price, perhaps he hasn't heard of the recent price drop. 

Anyway, I am also looking for a secondhand unit, but not for £700. Closer to £500 please, cheers.


----------



## SupperTime

malocadi said:


> If you're on Android, you can use USB Audio Player Pro with an OTG cable to connect to the RME. The app also has Tidal or quboz integration if you need it


Awsome, but what cable exactly do I need from Amazon? Because I see the adi2 has a weird USB connection IN the back, I'm new to all this


----------



## malocadi (Feb 5, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> Awsome, but what cable exactly do I need from Amazon? Because I see the adi2 has a weird USB connection IN the back, I'm new to all this


Depends on your phone USB connection.

It could be either Micro USB or USB-C. You'd then connect the RME cable to this adapter.


----------



## SupperTime

malocadi said:


> Depends on your phone USB connection.
> 
> It could be either Micro USB or USB-C. You'd then connect the RME cable to this adapter.


my phone has a USB C, so USB c to what? 

Also what is the best input into the adi2 that would yield the best sound quality?


----------



## inseconds99 (Feb 5, 2020)

I am looking forward to hear the reviews on the new ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition. The current pro model did not measure as well as the aid-2 dac from what I have read. Hopefully this new revision will perform better then the original Pro and the ADI-2 Dac. If audiosciencereview says it’s up to snuff I will be ordering it once available.


----------



## malocadi

SupperTime said:


> my phone has a USB C, so USB c to what?
> 
> Also what is the best input into the adi2 that would yield the best sound quality?


USB to female USB a just like what I have linked in the post (it's the same one I use myself).

As for best quality, from that app you'll want to set "bit-perfect" to on or "when possible" and play either flacs or high bitrate files. 

Tethering your phone to a DAC will become cumbersome in the long run so you'll want to consider using a network streamer/player at some point.


----------



## SupperTime

malocadi said:


> USB to female USB a just like what I have linked in the post (it's the same one I use myself).
> 
> As for best quality, from that app you'll want to set "bit-perfect" to on or "when possible" and play either flacs or high bitrate files.
> 
> Tethering your phone to a DAC will become cumbersome in the long run so you'll want to consider using a network streamer/player at some point.


What is a competent but on the lower end of the price spectrum network player, streamer? Something I can control with my phone


----------



## Picard7

betula said:


> I have asked RME if there is a sonic difference between the original model with the AK4490 chip and the revision with the AK4493 chip.
> This was the answer:
> 
> "There is no difference in sound by design. There is measurable difference between the two versions.
> ...



There's one on ebay UK - £750 but open to offers. I was looking at it but am now going in a different direction.


----------



## SupperTime

Picard7 said:


> There's one on ebay UK - £750 but open to offers. I was looking at it but am now going in a different direction.


What direction? I'm skeptical too


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Feb 6, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> Awsome, but what cable exactly do I need from Amazon? Because I see the adi2 has a weird USB connection IN the back, I'm new to all this



It's pretty standard for DACs to use a USB B connector for input. That's what the RME uses.



SupperTime said:


> What is a competent but on the lower end of the price spectrum network player, streamer? Something I can control with my phone



Bluesound Node 2i.


----------



## SupperTime

gimmeheadroom said:


> It's pretty standard for DACs to use a USB B connector for input. That's what the RME uses.
> 
> 
> 
> Bluesound Node 2i.


Thanks so much for your help, 
I can't find on Amazon what I Need for sure. I think it has to be OTG

I have a usb C on my phone, can someone help a newbie with a link?


----------



## Infoseeker (Feb 6, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> Thanks so much for your help,
> I can't find on Amazon what I Need for sure. I think it has to be OTG
> 
> I have a usb C on my phone, can someone help a newbie with a link?



For type-c to type-c, then any cable will work.

If one side is type-B, then you will need an OTG cable.


----------



## SupperTime

Infoseeker said:


> For type-c to type-c, then any cable will work.
> 
> If one side is micro, then you will need an OTG cable.


I got a usb type c port for my phone. 

But I need the other end to fit and work decently to the adi2 dac


----------



## Infoseeker (Feb 6, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> I got a usb type c port for my phone.
> 
> But I need the other end to fit and work decently to the adi2 dac


Here ya go. They are usually called phone printer cables. Though modern notebooks with only usb-c, it is also printer cables for them too.


Aliexpress US $1.88 | USB-C USB 3.1 Type C Male Connector to USB 2.0 B Type Male Data Cable for Cell Phone&Printer&Hard Disk 1m
https://a.aliexpress.com/_shyGc7

I use this to connect my E1da PowerDac V2 to my cellphone. Trying to catch a used RME ADI-2 DAC if I ever see one in the forums.


----------



## Picard7

SupperTime said:


> What direction? I'm skeptical too



Two box over one box.


----------



## SupperTime

Orederd a Adi 2 dac. 1st gen, got a stellar price! I wish for the 2nd gen but I asked tech support at RME and they said there is no sound difference at all, not auditable! 
But they do get a cooler remote. 
Does the newer (hen 2)remote work on our 1st gen Adi dac?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

SupperTime said:


> Orederd a Adi 2 dac. 1st gen, got a stellar price! I wish for the 2nd gen but I asked tech support at RME and they said there is no sound difference at all, not auditable!
> But they do get a cooler remote.
> Does the newer (hen 2)remote work on our 1st gen Adi dac?



Yes. They're sold separately for around 50 GBP, Euro, dollars depending where you live/buy

Congrats on the DAC. Superb unit.


----------



## Picard7

SupperTime said:


> Orederd a Adi 2 dac. 1st gen, got a stellar price! I wish for the 2nd gen but I asked tech support at RME and they said there is no sound difference at all, not auditable!
> But they do get a cooler remote.
> Does the newer (hen 2)remote work on our 1st gen Adi dac?



Be interested in hearing your thoughts.


----------



## SupperTime

Anyone know of a cheaper network player, just want bit perfect dlna or at least bluetooth, just have 1 device (it will be the Adi dac) to feed it music is all don't need anything fancy just something competent, don't need any features other than dlna and Bluetooth. But I do want it to do those things well


----------



## SupperTime

Additionally, should one invest in a ifi DC Purifier for power noise issues? I just want the best from the Adi dac


----------



## technobear

SupperTime said:


> Additionally, should one invest in a ifi DC Purifier for power noise issues? I just want the best from the Adi dac


Not for the ADI-2 DAC, no.


----------



## SupperTime

I'm new to eq and learning but still having difficulty, I want to increase the Midbass impact, just the mid bass hit, but not overall base. How do I do this well? Getting this adi-2 dac Monday! I'm excited. 

I'm expecting to be floored coming from an sony wm1a, hiby r6 pro


----------



## technobear

SupperTime said:


> I'm new to eq and learning but still having difficulty, I want to increase the Midbass impact, just the mid bass hit, but not overall base. How do I do this well?


http://www.archiv.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dacr_e.pdf


----------



## SupperTime

I got this usb C to USB B cable to connect my Note10 to the RME adi-2 dac. 

https://www.audioquest.com/cables/digital-cables/usb-a-to-b/forest

Is this ok as far as its capabilities to at least stream if not transport high rate tracks? 
Mostly will use Tidal ect and occasionally will use computer for higher rez files. 

Thanks to whoever helps


----------



## technobear

SupperTime said:


> I got this usb C to USB B cable to connect my Note10 to the RME adi-2 dac.
> 
> https://www.audioquest.com/cables/digital-cables/usb-a-to-b/forest
> 
> ...


The cable you have linked to is Type A to Type B, not Type C to Type B.


----------



## SupperTime

technobear said:


> The cable you have linked to is Type A to Type B, not Type C to Type B.


My apologies 

Here is what I got

https://www.audioquest.com/cables/digital-cables/usb-b-to-c/usb-b-to-c-forest

Let me know if you think it will limit my ability to play any file and if you think the quality might be a *weak link*


----------



## malocadi

SupperTime said:


> I got this usb C to USB B cable to connect my Note10 to the RME adi-2 dac.
> 
> https://www.audioquest.com/cables/digital-cables/usb-a-to-b/forest
> 
> ...


I posted exactly what you need several posts ago. The OTG cable I suggested connects to your phone which allows you to connect the USB cable from the RME to that. 

It might be worth doing some of your own research before investing in such expensive equipment.


----------



## SupperTime (Feb 8, 2020)

malocadi said:


> I posted exactly what you need several posts ago. The OTG cable I suggested connects to your phone which allows you to connect the USB cable from the RME to that.
> 
> It might be worth doing some of your own research before investing in such expensive equipment.


Money isn't really a problem here, of course I got my limits. This is just testing the waters of a desktop amp, it's my first, before I eventually get something more higher end.

I appreciate your link it was helpful in finding out how the cable should look, I didn't want to give it a cheap cable and compromise sound quality, (not that this audioquest cable is anything crazy either)

Sorry to annoy. Some of the terminologies they use in audio is new to me

The dac is coming in Monday but I've downloaded the manual and having a blast learning and reading!  I am excited and hope that this thing sounds great with my iems


----------



## klangfilm

Hi,
Sorry if it was already discussed (I did some search but haven't found anything) but has somebody compared the RME ADI-2 with a Meier Corda Jazz?
I use a HD600 and would like to simplify my Audio equipment.
I have already sold some speakers, amps, preamp and now I would like to sell the Corda, and buy a RME with active speakers and keep the HD600.
Thanks for your help


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I have both and I think the Corda Jazz drives Sennheisers a lot better than the RME DAC. But the Corda Jazz is not a DAC, which you already know.


----------



## klangfilm

Thanks for the information. It's not easy to find a good dac / preamp / headphone Amp in one box unfortunately.


----------



## genck (Feb 9, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I have both and I think the Corda Jazz drives Sennheisers a lot better than the RME DAC. But the Corda Jazz is not a DAC, which you already know.


https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nd-measurements-of-meier-corda-jazz-amp.7197/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eview-and-measurements-of-rme-adi-2-dac.2582/

See how little measurements matter, I hate that website by the way. Happy listening 

edit: The measurements can matter if you want to color the sound, I should have put this in my original post. Synergy is a real thing, matching source to phones is a fun hobby. Everyone has different hearing, good luck in your journey!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

klangfilm said:


> Thanks for the information. It's not easy to find a good dac / preamp / headphone Amp in one box unfortunately.



The RME drives a lot of headphones perfectly well. It sounds great with my Fostex and Audezes and HD 25s. It has very little headroom and sounds less lively than it should with my HD 600 and 800.


----------



## klangfilm

Thanks. I think I should try to have a test. I tend to listen at a low level so perhaps it would be sufficient.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

klangfilm said:


> Thanks. I think I should try to have a test. I tend to listen at a low level so perhaps it would be sufficient.



It's not about the volume. I myself am no headbanger 

When good Sennheisers sound flat and lifeless I know it's because they're not getting enough power. I've seen (heard) this enough to know what it is.

This does not mean you won't be satisfied. But I think it does mean your 600s would sound even better if you run your RME into your Corda Jazz.


----------



## klangfilm

OK, thanks for the explanations


----------



## SupperTime

Do audeze or hifiman headphones work good with the rme amp? 

Whats a good amp to compliment the rme adi 2.
Something around 1k$ used is fine, something that is friendly with lots of headphones


----------



## SupperTime

MikeW said:


> Should be good, the ADI-2 can also be battery powered if you ever need it.


How is this done?


----------



## technobear (Feb 10, 2020)

MikeW said:


> Should be good, the ADI-2 can also be battery powered if you ever need it.
> 
> 
> SupperTime said:
> ...


With a battery.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

SupperTime said:


> Do audeze or hifiman headphones work good with the rme amp?
> 
> Whats a good amp to compliment the rme adi 2.
> Something around 1k$ used is fine, something that is friendly with lots of headphones



LCD-2, LCD-3 work great out of the RME.



technobear said:


> With a battery.



Sometimes the simple answer is the correct one


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Feb 10, 2020)

BTW you should probably open a separate question in the Advice forum about the amp question. I think you can't go wrong pairing the RME with any good solid state or tube hybrid amp because the RME is very musical. I would not recommend running it into an OTL amp because that might be too warm.

You can find an amp many people say is great for everything. But other people prefer different kinds of amps for different headphones, different sources, different music. There is no end to it... and I'm pretty sure you will get a number of answers approximately equal to 2n+3 where n is the number of respondents... alternatively cruise the Headphone Amps (full size) forum

I like solid state or tube hybrid amps with Audezes, I like OTL amps with Sennheisers although the V280 might be oNe aMp 2 rUlE tHem AlL


----------



## SupperTime

Received! 






Absolutely floored with the sound quality. True silence in the iem out! Wow! Detail retrieval is outstanding for a dac chip this old! It clearly is all about implementation and post DAC circuity. Absolutely silent with the U18t iems!

Out of the box, no burn it sounds great, I love the screen and the eq possibilities (I don't know what I'm doing yet) but everything about it is absolutely awesome. Reading the book. But I sure wish I knew what I was doing with the EQ, I just want more Midbass slam and impact but to decrease subbass overall. 

I'm stunned. Stage is deep and decent but not all that wide, it's in intimate listen, just like I like it. 
Coming from WM1Z, Wm1a, this adi2 dac is way way way better. At least with the u18t. But then again maybe that's not a fair comparison as those players are portable 

How do I go about doing the eq I want. How do I learn on it the proper way


----------



## SupperTime (Feb 10, 2020)

Not fatiguing sound! I can keep turning it louder and louder (gotta be careful there lol) clean but fun sound, by reading this thread I expected this to be dry and thin, not to me, not with the u18t. Gobs of detail, good imaging, but fun above all!  Absolutely silent and I am sensitive to sibilance and hiss, no matter how little. I'm absolutely happy

PS. Cheap power cable... I mean cheap! Should I replace it with something a little more decent?


----------



## technobear (Feb 11, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> PS. Cheap power cable... I mean cheap! Should I replace it with something a little more decent?


No. Absolutely not. You will get no benefit. Most of the power supply is inside the ADI2-DAC.


ps. The answer to the battery question is at the bottom of page 10 in the new manual.


----------



## SupperTime

Well well

Lovd everything but 2ns day, screen quality issues, flickering, plain white or just glitches, I guess I got that German engineering! Gonna return and just buy other stuff, what a dissapointing end, it sounded good and I loved the features, maybe they could improve quality control? Bought it from syntax.
So what is the next step up from this Dac?


----------



## SupperTime

Now it froze on a screen and no button does anything, I can still control volume...


----------



## technobear

SupperTime said:


> Now it froze on a screen and no button does anything, I can still control volume...


Try updating to the latest firmware.


----------



## SupperTime (Feb 11, 2020)

technobear said:


> Try updating to the latest firmware.


I did the first thing out of the box yesterday





Now it's doing this


----------



## technobear

SupperTime said:


> I did the first thing out of the box yesterday


This is probably just a loose connection as it is still working normally otherwise. Send it back for servicing.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Oh man that's terrible. I don't blame you for being disappointed but it is certainly not typical as far as I have read. It seems the me the dealer ought to replace it instantly. You shouldn't have to contact RME although I am sure they would deal with it.


----------



## Infoseeker (Feb 11, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> Well well
> 
> Lovd everything but 2ns day, screen quality issues, flickering, plain white or just glitches, I guess I got that German engineering! Gonna return and just buy other stuff, what a dissapointing end, it sounded good and I loved the features, maybe they could improve quality control? Bought it from syntax.
> So what is the next step up from this Dac?



Don't think anything has a user interface with all the built-in features of the RME. Especially the EQ. 

But I've been eyeing the Quloos QA390 as the next best all-in-one  audiophile device after the RME. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/quloos-qa390.906027/


----------



## SupperTime

It seems to work OK now, but... That will be inconsistent. I've contacted syntax, let's see what happens


----------



## Picard7

RME has an active user forum. Also, I think you can factory reset the unit.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

He shouldn't have to do anything but exchange it at the shop for a new one.


----------



## SupperTime

Syntax will replace it.


----------



## SupperTime

SupperTime said:


> Syntax will replace it.


Got to try it again, I'm sure it was a one off problem. I really enjoyed the sound. Hopefully they send me the updated version of the DAC as some users do experience a small sound change in the filter. Not that I need it. But hopefully! 
Dang! Just learned how to play with the EQ easily. 

Now I want to move away from iem (even though the u18t is a beast) but idk what headphones work good with this amp dac. 

The *velvet sound * gimmick is cool in the sense of no fatigue, but I do raise the volume to hear more details (or so perceived) 

Looking for a NO Bass (recessed low end) high detail, mid forward signature full size can


----------



## greyscale75

Just curious, is the power connector seated and rotated for a proper fit?. Did the unit work properly prior to the firmware update?.


----------



## SupperTime (Feb 12, 2020)

greyscale75 said:


> Just curious, is the power connector seated and rotated for a proper fit?. Did the unit work properly prior to the firmware update?.


Yes, seated and rotated, yes it functioned prior to firmware update.

I let it splay 6 hrs without listening to it to get some burn in time, the unit was not hot, or anything, as soon as I touched the volume the glirching started.

After that I reset factory, and re installed newest firmware. All was good. 

It was OK after unplugging for 10 mins but still, something was definitely wrong.

Sintax made it right
I just hope it's V2 I'm getting back


----------



## gimmeheadroom

SupperTime said:


> Looking for a NO Bass (recessed low end) high detail, mid forward signature full size can



Grado, but I don't know which one. Check in the Grado threads.


----------



## SupperTime

What input and output would deliver the best sound quality out of the adi2? 

I've read earlier on this thread that if you up sample through a computer software things get even better? How is that done so, is it true?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

SupperTime said:


> What input and output would deliver the best sound quality out of the adi2?
> 
> I've read earlier on this thread that if you up sample through a computer software things get even better? How is that done so, is it true?



The USB input on almost every DAC is the best, most high resolution possibility. S/PDIF both optical and coax are only specced to 24/192.

No, upsampling is bad. Let the DAC do the job it was designed to do. Keep software out of the way as much as possible.


----------



## SupperTime

Actually got a 2nd gen Adi2 dac! Wooohooo! In replacement of my faulty 1st gen. 

I feel like my u18t are amazing and super detailed, but I do want a even more detailed and clearer imaging and layering, perhaps I have to go with a full size can for the adi2. What is the highest resolution with most detail and imagining that plays well with the adi2?


----------



## technobear

SupperTime said:


> What is the highest resolution with most detail and imagining that plays well with the adi2?


RTFM

The specifications are in there.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

technobear said:


> RTFM
> 
> The specifications are in there.



I think he was asking about headphones


----------



## technobear

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think he was asking about headphones


Ah yes. Reading it again I think you are right.

In which case it is off topic since the ADI-2 DAC is adaptable enough to play well with any headphone on the planet (almost).


----------



## technobear

SupperTime said:


> I feel like my u18t are amazing and super detailed, but I do want a even more detailed and clearer imaging and layering, perhaps I have to go with a full size can for the adi2. What is the highest resolution with most detail and imagining that plays well with the adi2?


See here: https://www.head-fi.org/forums/headphones-full-size.4/?order=post_date&direction=desc


----------



## gimmeheadroom

technobear said:


> Ah yes. Reading it again I think you are right.
> 
> In which case it is off topic since the ADI-2 DAC is adaptable enough to play well with any headphone on the planet (almost).



I don't think they do very well with Sennheisers. I'm sure there are other headphones they don't do well with either but you can't expect an 800 pound gorilla


technobear said:


> Ah yes. Reading it again I think you are right.
> 
> In which case it is off topic since the ADI-2 DAC is adaptable enough to play well with any headphone on the planet (almost).



I don't think it sounds very good with my Sennheisers but it drives everything else I have very well or extremely well.


----------



## SupperTime

I can't find a short (6inch). Usb C to usb B for the rme, for the life of me!
I really need a short cable. Anyone know where to get one. I can't believe them don't make them this short


----------



## NehPets

SupperTime said:


> I can't find a short (6inch). Usb C to usb B for the rme, for the life of me!
> I really need a short cable. Anyone know where to get one. I can't believe them don't make them this short


You could always get one made; Matt at Forza AudioWorks has made a number of USB cables for me.


----------



## SupperTime

NehPets said:


> You could always get one made; Matt at Forza AudioWorks has made a number of USB cables for me.


How do I find him and how long does it take for him to make one?


----------



## silvahr

SupperTime said:


> How do I find him and how long does it take for him to make one?



Google + Forza Audioworks = https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/


----------



## gimmeheadroom

SupperTime said:


> I can't find a short (6inch). Usb C to usb B for the rme, for the life of me!
> I really need a short cable. Anyone know where to get one. I can't believe them don't make them this short



ebay, aliexpress, scamazon


----------



## SupperTime

gimmeheadroom said:


> ebay, aliexpress, scamazon


I've checked, seriously.. În 6inch there just aren't any. 

They have longer but I need 6 inch


----------



## gimmeheadroom

SupperTime said:


> I've checked, seriously.. În 6inch there just aren't any.
> 
> They have longer but I need 6 inch



Maybe a phone shop in the mall. Or just make a loop and live with it... the idea of ordering a custom USB cable is insane...


----------



## SupperTime

gimmeheadroom said:


> Maybe a phone shop in the mall. Or just make a loop and live with it... the idea of ordering a custom USB cable is insane...


I move my rme adi-2 dac and iems to and from work daily. It being small to connect to my source is important to get In and out quickly. Just want simple utility. Also gonna connect a battery to the Adi 2 dac to be even more portable. 

Thing is. Idk how to connect a portable battery to the weird energy input in the adi2 dac


----------



## gimmeheadroom

SupperTime said:


> I move my rme adi-2 dac and iems to and from work daily. It being small to connect to my source is important to get In and out quickly. Just want simple utility. Also gonna connect a battery to the Adi 2 dac to be even more portable.
> 
> Thing is. Idk how to connect a portable battery to the weird energy input in the adi2 dac



The RME is a desktop DAC. If you want something portable there are already solutions for that. What are you using for a source that has only USB C out?


----------



## SupperTime

gimmeheadroom said:


> The RME is a desktop DAC. If you want something portable there are already solutions for that. What are you using for a source that has only USB C out?


Its a shanling m0, Bluetooth in USB c out 
Going to velcro it to the RME adi-2 and feed it bluetooth. 
But also trying to find a portable battery that can feed the weird adi-2 power Input cable (wish I could find a USB to rme adi-2 power dongle, that would be ideal. From work (multiple offices moving around through the day) and to home and on trips. Why not. Love the thing


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Sorry man, there are limits to everything


----------



## SupperTime

gimmeheadroom said:


> Sorry man, there are limits to everything


What is the adi2 power supply dongle that goes into the power Input called? Like what is that termination called. Is it proprietary


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I think it is just a regular coaxial power connector but it has locking lugs. A normal one of the same diameter will probably work, you can ask on the RME forums.


----------



## SupperTime

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think it is just a regular coaxial power connector but it has locking lugs. A normal one of the same diameter will probably work, you can ask on the RME forums.



I did, looks like just a usb to DC but again, I probably won't be able to find a 6inch usb to DC... Short cables are very hard to come by


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Probably no 12V power supply is going to have a USB plug. That would cause idiots to burn up a lot of expensive iCrap.

When what you want to do seems unreasonably difficult there is usually a good reason for that.

If you're not happy with the Shanling's amp or DAC, strap it to a portable device designed for that. Your idea to drag around a battery and a DAP and a desktop DAC is kinda bordering on men in white suits are coming to take you away hah hah, they're coming to take you away


----------



## captblaze

SupperTime said:


> I did, looks like just a usb to DC but again, I probably won't be able to find a 6inch usb to DC... Short cables are very hard to come by



Is this what you are looking for? -------> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076GYGR6M/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_9?smid=AETMPL12BRMYU&psc=1


----------



## SupperTime

captblaze said:


> Is this what you are looking for? -------> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076GYGR6M/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_9?smid=AETMPL12BRMYU&psc=1


Yes pretty much, I have a small power bank, just like the rme adi-2 dac manual said that 12v is plenty to power this, so what I really need is a USB cable that goes into a power bank like that and then to the RME DC input to power it.  I need it around 6inches.


----------



## captblaze

SupperTime said:


> Yes pretty much, I have a small power bank, just like the rme adi-2 dac manual said that 12v is plenty to power this, so what I really need is a USB cable that goes into a power bank like that and then to the RME DC input to power it.  I need it around 6inches.




maybe this? ---> https://www.amazon.com/CCYC-Voltage...b+to+coax&qid=1581811440&s=electronics&sr=1-1


----------



## SupperTime

captblaze said:


> maybe this? ---> https://www.amazon.com/CCYC-Voltage...b+to+coax&qid=1581811440&s=electronics&sr=1-1


Thanks, the issue is they are all over a foot long. Need a short one around 6/8 inches


----------



## NehPets

SupperTime said:


> Its a shanling m0, Bluetooth in USB c out
> Going to velcro it to the RME adi-2 and feed it bluetooth.
> But also trying to find a portable battery that can feed the weird adi-2 power Input cable (wish I could find a USB to rme adi-2 power dongle, that would be ideal. From work (multiple offices moving around through the day) and to home and on trips. Why not. Love the thing


Got a similar plan myself - Shanling M2s digital, or possibly Questyle QP2R optical, into ADI-2, then analogue out to Bakoon HPA-01M or Stax SRM-D10.


----------



## technobear

SupperTime said:


> Yes pretty much, I have a small power bank, just like the rme adi-2 dac manual said that 12v is plenty to power this,


Is it? The RME needs 2 Amps. Can your 'small' power bank deliver 2 Amps?



SupperTime said:


> so what I really need is a USB cable that goes into a power bank like that and then to the RME DC input to power it.  I need it around 6inches.


No, no, no. Forget USB. The USB standard voltage is 5 Volts. You will not power the RME from a USB port.


----------



## SupperTime

technobear said:


> Is it? The RME needs 2 Amps. Can your 'small' power bank deliver 2 Amps?
> 
> 
> No, no, no. Forget USB. The USB standard voltage is 5 Volts. You will not power the RME from a USB port.


From a USB port out from a power bank? It will need 5v? I'm confused I thought I could power it through a power bank such as this 

Its got a 

Output
5V ⎓ 6A (5V ⎓ 3A Max Per Port)


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JIWQPMW/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_FSssEbFB2VBKK



Wont this do what I need it to do?


----------



## technobear

SupperTime said:


> From a USB port out from a power bank? It will need 5v? I'm confused I thought I could power it through a power bank such as this
> 
> Its got a
> 
> ...



USB is 5 Volts

The power requirements of the ADI-2 DAC are on page 10 of the User Manual and are far above 5 Volts.


----------



## SupperTime

technobear said:


> USB is 5 Volts
> 
> The power requirements of the ADI-2 DAC are on page 10 of the User Manual and are far above 5 Volts.


They used to sell a usb to DC cable, but now I can't find it. So you don't think it will work?


----------



## Dogmatrix

SupperTime said:


> They used to sell a usb to DC cable, but now I can't find it. So you don't think it will work?


Best results from the RME forum have involved 12 volt batteries the kind of thing motorcycles use , they are available in lithium form these days but are still quite heavy . 
Anyway I have not read any reports of sq improvement using battery power , RME originally designed it this way so the pro version could be used at live gigs with a lap top .


----------



## alex50

SupperTime said:


> Do audeze or hifiman headphones work good with the rme amp?
> 
> Whats a good amp to compliment the rme adi 2.
> Something around 1k$ used is fine, something that is friendly with lots of headphones



The Drop THX 789 or Monoprice THX 887 may be a good choice.  Seems to be a popular pairing.


----------



## SupperTime

How does the thx amps compare to this Rupert Neve Designs RNHP amp when paired with the rme adi-2 dac?
Is it too clinical? Is it OK?


----------



## captblaze

SupperTime said:


> How does the thx amps compare to this Rupert Neve Designs RNHP amp when paired with the rme adi-2 dac?
> Is it too clinical? Is it OK?



if you ask that question on RME's forum you will get pilloried by an angry mob of elitists, so better to ask here


----------



## SupperTime

captblaze said:


> if you ask that question on RME's forum you will get pilloried by an angry mob of elitists, so better to ask here


I don't mean to annoy anyone, just want info, I'm new to desktop setups


----------



## captblaze

SupperTime said:


> I don't mean to annoy anyone, just want info, I'm new to desktop setups



i was just providing a warning about RME forums... you are within your rights to have questions.


----------



## SupperTime

How do I do something like this to me rme adi-2 dac,


----------



## alex50 (Feb 21, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> How do I do something like this to me rme adi-2 dac,



I believe that is an anniversary edition that was released by the company.  It is not an end user mod.  Only 500 units made.
Anniversary Edition


----------



## SupperTime

alex50 said:


> I believe that is an anniversary edition that was released by the company.  It is not an end user mod.  Only 500 units made.
> Anniversary Edition


Yes but how can I make that happen just thr glass, don't need it to say anything, how do I make it or buy and cut the metal and attach?


----------



## NehPets

SupperTime said:


> Yes but how can I make that happen just thr glass, don't need it to say anything, how do I make it or buy and cut the metal and attach?


You could start with something like this
https://hpclaser.co.uk/fiber-laser-cutters/ls0640/


----------



## SupperTime

NehPets said:


> You could start with something like this
> https://hpclaser.co.uk/fiber-laser-cutters/ls0640/


I mean I can cut it with some tin snips, but how to I attach glass like that


----------



## NehPets

SupperTime said:


> I mean I can cut it with some tin snips, but how to I attach glass like that


Don't use glass, use PMMA instead and glue it in, or use double-sided adhesive tape.


----------



## SupperTime

NehPets said:


> Don't use glass, use PMMA instead and glue it in, or use double-sided adhesive tape.


Thanks so much I appreciate it, you got me started, definitely doing this now!


----------



## SupperTime

NehPets said:


> Don't use glass, use PMMA instead and glue it in, or use double-sided adhesive tape.


Do you think, if I take the precise measurements of the top metal portion of the rme adi-2 dac and have it 3d printed it would work?  In that PMMA or acrylic /plexiglass?


----------



## NehPets

SupperTime said:


> Do you think, if I take the precise measurements of the top metal portion of the rme adi-2 dac and have it 3d printed it would work?  In that PMMA or acrylic /plexiglass?


I don't know if PMMA is suitable for 3D printing; it might lose its transparency. If I were you, I'd print the top cover in black (or whatever color you like) ABS, but leave a rectangular cavity in the middle, into which, you can fit a piece of transparent acrylic.


----------



## Dogmatrix

SupperTime said:


> Do you think, if I take the precise measurements of the top metal portion of the rme adi-2 dac and have it 3d printed it would work?  In that PMMA or acrylic /plexiglass?


Keep in mind the cover also functions as a heat sink


----------



## SupperTime

Got to listen to focal elegia, clear and ether 2, clear was very bright and sharp with rme adi-2, but loved the massive detail.
Tuedsy I get the utopia, hd800s, ether flow C
To try out. 
Really wanting to try stellia and zmf verite closed.

But I'm afraid anything with great detail will have brightness. 
U18t has wild detail and no sibilance!


----------



## Phoniac

SupperTime said:


> Thanks so much I appreciate it, you got me started, definitely doing this now!



Note that the picture that you posted - this kind of view you will not get. The Anniversary edition had 3 or 4 LEDs inside with extra top cover to illuminate the PCB. These LEDs are not found in the other ADIs (yours). Not to mention that you loose warranty when you start to open and cut the housing.


----------



## SupperTime

Phoniac said:


> Note that the picture that you posted - this kind of view you will not get. The Anniversary edition had 3 or 4 LEDs inside with extra top cover to illuminate the PCB. These LEDs are not found in the other ADIs (yours). Not to mention that you loose warranty when you start to open and cut the housing.


Dissapointing... I guess it is what it is, I loose out


----------



## darmccombs

Well, I just got a RME ADI-2 DAC.  I've read the whole thread twice in preparation.  I have figured out how to navigate the menus and change all the settings.  And I think I have gotten the basic setup done to connect ot my home music systems, and headphone setup.  I think I am just down to figuring out the sound/DSP settings to optimize both my audio setups.  Thanks to everyone for this terrific thread.  It's help me get off to a great start.

I bought this main to use in my headphone setup.  I am coming from a Chord Mojo, so its an interesting transition.  The Mojo has a much different sound (warmer with more slam).  At times I wish the RME had a bit more slam.  I wouldn't think I need an Amp since my Z7m2 headphones are pretty easy to drive.

I've also tried this in my home setup (Receiver, Speakers).  It really excels here.  I may end up putting the RME in the home system and buying another Dac/Amp for my headphone setup.


----------



## SupperTime

darmccombs said:


> Well, I just got a RME ADI-2 DAC.  I've read the whole thread twice in preparation.  I have figured out how to navigate the menus and change all the settings.  And I think I have gotten the basic setup done to connect ot my home music systems, and headphone setup.  I think I am just down to figuring out the sound/DSP settings to optimize both my audio setups.  Thanks to everyone for this terrific thread.  It's help me get off to a great start.
> 
> I bought this main to use in my headphone setup.  I am coming from a Chord Mojo, so its an interesting transition.  The Mojo has a much different sound (warmer with more slam).  At times I wish the RME had a bit more slam.  I wouldn't think I need an Amp since my Z7m2 headphones are pretty easy to drive.
> 
> I've also tried this in my home setup (Receiver, Speakers).  It really excels here.  I may end up putting the RME in the home system and buying another Dac/Amp for my headphone setup.


As a former mojo user myself, I am stunned to hear anyone mention *slam* and mojo in the same sentence!


----------



## darmccombs

SupperTime said:


> As a former mojo user myself, I am stunned to hear anyone mention *slam* and mojo in the same sentence!


LOL, maybe I used the wrong word "slam" to convey what I am hearing.  I'll try again.  I think the Mojo has more solid bass, making the mojo have a more powerful sound.  I don't think the Mojo is faster however.


----------



## SupperTime

darmccombs said:


> LOL, maybe I used the wrong word "slam" to convey what I am hearing.  I'll try again.  I think the Mojo has more solid bass, making the mojo have a more powerful sound.  I don't think the Mojo is faster however.


We each hear what we hear. 
I've owned 
Mojo
Wm1a
Wm1z
Dx220
Hiby r6pro 
Hugo 1 (extensive Hugo 2)
All paired with the 64 audio u18t

I thought rme adi-2 dac v2( without any DSP settings in use to best all of those above in sound quality alone) thr H2 was a clearer listen but more sibilance was present so the rme still wins to me. 
I sold all those to progress and eventually come to find rme adi-2 dac v2, and now it's just game over as far as DAC goes. 
The iem output is absolutely magical at absolute silence and clariry, but the regula quarter inch output I find weak in pushing some headphones the proper way. 
So adding a strong amp like the phonitor for exanple or a tube will make the regular headphone out (quarter inch) to be superior to rme adi-2 dac v2 headamp section.  That is its weak spot in my ears. 
Add in the properly done, sacrifice free DSP and eq settings and proper crossfeed.. And unprotected sex with your ears is now possible


----------



## Phoniac

SupperTime said:


> Got to listen to focal elegia, clear and ether 2, clear was very bright and sharp with rme adi-2, but loved the massive detail.
> Tuedsy I get the utopia, hd800s, ether flow C



All of these are easy to drive for the RME up to ear-bleeding volumes..



SupperTime said:


> The iem output is absolutely magical at absolute silence and clariry, but the regula quarter inch output I find weak in pushing some headphones the proper way.



Sounds more like another one that missed the High Power setting...


----------



## SupperTime

Phoniac said:


> All of these are easy to drive for the RME up to ear-bleeding volumes..
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds more like another one that missed the High Power setting...


I turned it on, it was just missing something out of the quarter inch.. I plugged them in a phonitor (phonitor was powered by the rme adi-2 dac) and it drove it better, stronger more dynamic, to me a clear winner as far as power and clean goes, superior to the rme adi-2 dac Amp side (quarter inch) for iem I prefer rme. 
I love the rme dac, sound quality DSP, vast features and pleasant screen.  It was no slouch but I would say the phonitor, strickly looking at sound quality out of the quarter inch out was about 30/40 percent better than the rme... I'm a big fan, but I have to give credit where credit is due.
High power setting was turned on.  Listened in SD sharp and slow, after initial thoughts on eq off I did eq on just to fool around and the rme did a great job as usual and the headphones responded well to minor eq changes as well. 
Loved it all, but the clears were bright, the ethers not so much, going to skip utopia out of the rme, and just get the stellia. 

Remember, amp is not solely about just driving something to Loud volumes. A 50$ amp can do all that.... But it is the *authority * or energy it can drive it with, more of an effortless sound, on caffeine... Ect.


----------



## Phoniac

And it is subjective self-delusion like this, derived without precise volume matching and accurate comparison, that is the only real difference. Your description of the missing properties are typical audiophile placebos. There is no 'authority' problem with the RME unless you try to drive a HE-6.


----------



## SupperTime

Phoniac said:


> And it is subjective self-delusion like this, derived without precise volume matching and accurate comparison, that is the only real difference. Your description of the missing properties are typical audiophile placebos. There is no 'authority' problem with the RME unless you try to drive a HE-6.


Sure. Whatever makes you pet the rme more and give it the attaboy chat. 

I listened for a few hours, to my best trial of volume matching by ear. I apologize for my 3/5db difference margin. The phonitor was significantly *better sounding * out of thr quarter inch. I haven't gotten the chance to try its balanced way of things but I would think there would be further changes. 
 The cans sounded punchier, crisper, cleaner vs the rme (quarter inch) in your beloved high power mode. 

With that said is the phonitor worth 2k for it to make it happen? Not to me.... 
Would I buy one used at 1.2k? Idk... 
Does it have the incredible price performance the rme adi-2 dac has.... Pfffft No! 
Did it sound better to me with every can I put in it? Yes.... 
Significantly?... I guess. 

Are you butt hurt?.... Possibly


----------



## mhamel

SupperTime said:


> Yes but how can I make that happen just thr glass, don't need it to say anything, how do I make it or buy and cut the metal and attach?



Check out some of the PC modding videos on Youtube about adding a window to a PC case.  There is an edge gasket that you can get that has a channel on one side that holds the gasket to the hole in the case, and a 2nd channel on the inner edge that holds the window.


----------



## maszynista1987

SupperTime said:


> Really wanting to try stellia and zmf verite closed.






ZMF are great with Rme


----------



## thiy71

Excuse me,does anyone compare the performance between hugo1 and adi-2 to drive sennheiser hd650?
I want to know whether adi-2's amp is enough to drive hd650?
Thanks


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Feb 23, 2020)

I do not like the RME amp with my 600s or 800s. The RME sounds good to me over my Fostex TRs and LCD-2C. Still not sure how I feel about it with the LCD-3F.

I don't have the Hugo. If you have Sennheisers I would recommend running the RME into a good balanced amp. Sennheisers can sound lifeless without enough power even though they get loud enough.

That said, I think it would be a terrible mistake not to buy the RME just because it doesn't have enough amp. To me it's a DAC, and it's superb at that. For one thing, it makes it enjoyable to use headphones you might not be able to listen to at all without the EQ. It's just full of great stuff. If I can run some headphones happily off of it that's just icing on the cake.


----------



## darmccombs

SupperTime said:


> I turned it on, it was just missing something out of the quarter inch.. I plugged them in a phonitor (phonitor was powered by the rme adi-2 dac) and it drove it better, stronger more dynamic, to me a clear winner as far as power and clean goes, superior to the rme adi-2 dac Amp side (quarter inch) for iem I prefer rme.
> I love the rme dac, sound quality DSP, vast features and pleasant screen.  It was no slouch but I would say the phonitor, strickly looking at sound quality out of the quarter inch out was about 30/40 percent better than the rme... I'm a big fan, but I have to give credit where credit is due.
> High power setting was turned on.  Listened in SD sharp and slow, after initial thoughts on eq off I did eq on just to fool around and the rme did a great job as usual and the headphones responded well to minor eq changes as well.
> Loved it all, but the clears were bright, the ethers not so much, going to skip utopia out of the rme, and just get the stellia.
> ...





SupperTime said:


> Sure. Whatever makes you pet the rme more and give it the attaboy chat.
> 
> I listened for a few hours, to my best trial of volume matching by ear. I apologize for my 3/5db difference margin. The phonitor was significantly *better sounding * out of thr quarter inch. I haven't gotten the chance to try its balanced way of things but I would think there would be further changes.
> The cans sounded punchier, crisper, cleaner vs the rme (quarter inch) in your beloved high power mode.
> ...


Thanks for the feedback.  I understand exactly what you are seeing.  I’ve seen this in some home systems a few times.


----------



## SupperTime

darmccombs said:


> Thanks for the feedback.  I understand exactly what you are seeing.  I’ve seen this in some home systems a few times.


I hope you come to enjoy it more. If not. It's really a whole lot cheaper to keep mojo, return rme adi-2 and just buy a jds atom or the equivalent for a strong capable amp dac combo, nothing wrong with that!


----------



## darmccombs

SupperTime said:


> I hope you come to enjoy it more. If not. It's really a whole lot cheaper to keep mojo, return rme adi-2 and just buy a jds atom or the equivalent for a strong capable amp dac combo, nothing wrong with that!


Oh, I am keeping the RME.  It goes great in my home system used as a DAC only.  I really like the unit.  If I can get the RME working better than the mojo with my headphones, I may even buy a 2nd RME.

I will be doing more testing with the RME DSP settings to see how good I can get my Z7m2 HP to sound.  Right now that is my focus.


----------



## pororom

I ask for help

I have the ADI 2 Dac and I only used it as a headphone amplifier, but now I want to connect 2 Genelec

How should I do it?

Do I have to put something between the monitors and the ADI or from the ADI can I adjust the volume?

I am concerned about the configuration of the ADI output volts and the Genelec input volts. I have no idea how to set it up

I don't want to break the devices


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Feb 24, 2020)

The Genelecs have volume control or you prefer to control the volume from the RME?

You can do it either way. Either you run the RME at full output and adjust volume on the speakers, or you turn the RME volume down to something like -60 dB, turn the Genelecs on full power, and then adjust the volume from the RME.


----------



## pororom

gimmeheadroom said:


> The Genelecs have volume control or you prefer to control the volume from the RME?
> 
> You can do it either way. Either you run the RME at full output and adjust volume on the speakers, or you turn the RME volume down to something like -60 dB, turn the Genelecs on full power, and then adjust the volume from the RME.



I don't think the Genelecs have volume control

https://www.genelec.com/8030c

I want to control the volume from the ADI

Do I connect the XLR cables and always turn on the speakers first?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

pororom said:


> I don't think the Genelecs have volume control
> 
> https://www.genelec.com/8030c
> 
> ...



You can leave the speakers on and when music is playing from the RME they will wake up.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

So now that it has been a few months since the release of the ADI-2 v2 with the AKM4493, has anyone had a chance to really test the old and new models for perceptible sound differences?

For example articles like this (yes, it is marketing) suggest there is a substantial improvement in the technology between AKM4490 and AKM4493... the whole part about "Velvet sound technology", "improved acoustic sound expression", "lower distortion", etc. Does any of this translate into a better sound experience between ADI-2 v1 and v2?

https://www.marketwatch.com/press-r...-best-selling-premium-high-end-dac-2017-12-08

Thanks.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

After RME themselves said there is no audible difference it seems folly to spend more time on this  the noise floor is already well below human audibility.


----------



## SupperTime

CaptainFantastic said:


> So now that it has been a few months since the release of the ADI-2 v2 with the AKM4493, has anyone had a chance to really test the old and new models for perceptible sound differences?
> 
> For example articles like this (yes, it is marketing) suggest there is a substantial improvement in the technology between AKM4490 and AKM4493... the whole part about "Velvet sound technology", "improved acoustic sound expression", "lower distortion", etc. Does any of this translate into a better sound experience between ADI-2 v1 and v2?
> 
> ...


I had both and now have v2. But only a few days with v1. 
There is an additional filter now and with that on it does sound marginally different, rme said no other changes. And I too haven't noticed anything, but again, I didn't have much time with the gen 1. About 6 hrs


----------



## MLGrado (Feb 26, 2020)

Luckbad said:


> Stream of Consciousness Day 1
> 
> 
> Speaking of DSD... you can do direct DSD via line outs only since you're not allowed to manipulate the volume. It silences the headphone outs if you turn on DSD Direct. I believe it converts DSD to PCM internally if you leave it off, which is default.



The AK chip does not require dropping to pure PCM as we think of it to perform DSD volume control.  DSD input into the chip goes to a separate filter vs. PCM when not using the direct bypass feature.  (Direct bypass can ONLY be used on line out.

If you input DSD and aren't using direct bypass, there is a volume stage in the 'DSD Domain'.  There are several technical documents out there that somewhat explain the process.  Sample rate is unchanged, but the result is a file with multiple bits per sample. One is lead to think these volume controls do not filter/decimate the signal.  But more commonly I believe filtering is done, and it should take advantage of the high sample rate to implement a very slow, smooth filter that retains maximum information and impulse response.  Then this 'intermediate signal' in the 'DSD Domain' is converted via the Delta Sigma Modulators on the chip and the accompanying final stage filtering.

Now, you can throw all of that out if you use any DSP other than volume when listening to DSD with Phones or in 'non-direct' mode via line out.  The DSD signal must be converted to standard PCM to implement the multiplicity of RME DSP features.  This would happen pre AKM chip.  All data would go into the chip as PCM, never being routed to the on-chip DSD filter.

Of course RME could be avoiding completely the onboard DSD stage, never using the onboard DSD filter at all, Sending DSD via 'standard' PCM to the DAC.  The exception being when line-out direct mode is used, and you get 'pure' DSD conversion with no intermediate DSP. 

That's the best I have figured out after many hours of painstaking research on the subject.  Other DSP than volume could be done in the so called 'DSD Domain', but that requires very complex systems probably way beyond the scope of this product.  For EQ, Crossfeed, and similar DSP's, PCM remains the best way, if not the ONLY way to get certain things done.


By the way, I can tell you the Direct DSD via line out in marvelous on this DAC.  If you want a 'true DSD' experience, this is one of the few products that will get you there.  Most others involve intermediate DSP.


----------



## Triodemode

MLGrado said:


> The AK chip does not require dropping to pure PCM as we think of it to perform DSD volume control.  DSD input into the chip goes to a separate filter vs. PCM when not using the direct bypass feature.  (Direct bypass can ONLY be used on line out.
> 
> If you input DSD and aren't using direct bypass, there is a volume stage in the 'DSD Domain'.  There are several technical documents out there that somewhat explain the process.  Sample rate is unchanged, but the result is a file with multiple bits per sample. One is lead to think these volume controls do not filter/decimate the signal.  But more commonly I believe filtering is done, and it should take advantage of the high sample rate to implement a very slow, smooth filter that retains maximum information and impulse response.  Then this 'intermediate signal' in the 'DSD Domain' is converted via the Delta Sigma Modulators on the chip and the accompanying final stage filtering.
> 
> ...



Nice summation on how DSD gets adulterated in most DACs, including those which utilize ESS chips as I have read.  AK and Texas instruments are two of only a few DAC chips that allow DSD without any bit modification.


----------



## darmccombs (Feb 28, 2020)

I bought an ADI-2 DAC last month to use with my iPad Pro and Z7m2 headphone setup.  It worked out pretty well.  I was still playing with setting and connection methods, etc.  For fun, I put it in my home system (Speakers, Amps, etc.).  I was surprised how well this DAC sounded in my system.  It is staying there.  LOL

So, then I was back t figuring out what to use for my iPad Pro and Z7m2 headphone setup.  I figured out some EQ settings for the Z7m2 with the RME and I'm really liking the sound.  The IEM connection has enough power for my headphones and the layering is so nice through the Low Power connection.  I don't know why the layering is so much better on the low power setting, but to my ears with numerous tests, there is a noticeable difference.  I know some folks will say that shouldn't be true based on the measurements, but I do hear the difference.

So, I like the RME in my home setup, and I like the RME for my headphone setup at work.  Although the RME is small enough to transport, I don't want to unhook it every morning and every night so I can use it in both places.  So I was forced to buy another RME ADI-2.  Crazy eh? LOL.

Fortunately, I found another used one at a fair price.


----------



## SupperTime

darmccombs said:


> I bought an ADI-2 DAC last month to use with my iPad Pro and Z7m2 headphone setup.  It worked out pretty well.  I was still playing with setting and connection methods, etc.  For fun, I put it in my home system (Speakers, Amps, etc.).  I was surprised how well this DAC sounded in my system.  It is staying there.  LOL
> 
> So, then I was back t figuring out what to use for my iPad Pro and Z7m2 headphone setup.  I figured out some EQ settings for the Z7m2 with the RME and I'm really liking the sound.  The IEM connection has enough power for my headphones and the layering is so nice through the Low Power connection.  I don't know why the layering is so much better on the low power setting, but to my ears with numerous tests, there is a noticeable difference.  I know some folks will say that shouldn't be true based on the measurements, but I do hear the difference.
> 
> So, I like the RME in my home setup, and I like the RME for my headphone setup at work.  Although the RME is small enough to transport, I don't want to unhook it every morning and every night so I can use it in both places.  So I was forced to buy another RME ADI-2.  Fortunately, I found another used one at a fair price.  Crazy, eh?


I'm glad you've come to love it. The iem out is truly special, and dead silent even with very very sensitive iems


----------



## SupperTime

The ether flow C 1.1 is the best pair I heard with the rme adi-2 dac, absolutely love it.
Selling my u18t soon because of it. 
The focal stellia absolutely splendid with the rme adi-2 dac,  both powered just well.


----------



## darmccombs

SupperTime said:


> The ether flow C 1.1 is the best pair I heard with the rme adi-2 dac, absolutely love it.
> Selling my u18t soon because of it.
> The focal stellia absolutely splendid with the rme adi-2 dac,  both powered just well.


Stop It!!!  Haven't I spent enough money this month on new gear?  LOL  

Yeah kidding...  It's great to hear what headphones will work with this Dac/Amp.


----------



## SupperTime

darmccombs said:


> Stop It!!!  Haven't I spent enough money this month on new gear?  LOL
> 
> Yeah kidding...  It's great to hear what headphones will work with this Dac/Amp.


Absolutely amazing and silent. Expecially the 3.5mm (iem out)
Slap a phonitor amp on it and have sex with your ears

Audio is worse than traveling sometimes, as far as spending goes, the rabbit hole


----------



## SupperTime

5V/3.0A, 9V/2.5A, 12V/2.0A, 15V/1.5A

Which power plug do I need for rme adi-2 dac as far as proper power cord and plug goes? 
I know the power in the rme adi-2 dac is great and down well blah blah blah... 
But I wanna know


----------



## darmccombs

SupperTime said:


> 5V/3.0A, 9V/2.5A, 12V/2.0A, 15V/1.5A
> 
> Which power plug do I need for rme adi-2 dac as far as proper power cord and plug goes?
> I know the power in the rme adi-2 dac is great and down well blah blah blah...
> But I wanna know


*5.5 mm/2.1 mm 5 Volt DC Barrel Jack Power Cable
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=30179*


----------



## MiloTx (Mar 2, 2020)

Hey Head-Fi, I finally picked up an ADI-2 DAC fs and honestly I must be missing something... Running from:
USB (Win10 WASAPI Roon playing Tidal) -> RME -> Balanced -> Cavalli Liquid Gold -> Balanced Ether Flow C 1.1

With the Liquid Gold, I can A/B test by running multiple inputs and switching input on the front. I am also running:
USB (Win10 ASIO Roon playing Tidal) -> Aune T1 Mk2 w/ Amprex Gold Pin NoS Cryo -> Single Ended -> Cavalli Liquid Gold -> Balanced Ether Flow C 1.1

When switching between the above two inputs, the Aune BLOWS the RME out of the water in all aspects. Its like the sound goes from completely veiled inside of my head on the RME to holographic 3d all around me using the Aune. I just can't bring myself to believe the soundstage of the RME is that tight and veiled? I am running RME at 16dB gain out (Vol is -3dB, Ref Level is +13 dBu, Balanced Output is +6dBu).

RME has no EQ, no Bass/Treble tuning, no crossfeed set. Hoping y'all can point me in a direction as to what I am doing wrong?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

1. did you install the RME drivers
2. +16 dB is over driving. My fixed output setting is +7 dB. Not sure if what you said is even possible with the RME
3. RME has EQ, loudness, crossfeed. Check youtube for menu walkthrough videos


----------



## MiloTx (Mar 2, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> 1. did you install the RME drivers
> 2. +16 dB is over driving. My fixed output setting is +7 dB. Not sure if what you said is even possible with the RME
> 3. RME has EQ, loudness, crossfeed. Check youtube for menu walkthrough videos


1. Installed and then uninstalled because operationally better using WASAPI after they fixed the bugs.
2. Vol is -3dB, Ref Level is +13 dBu, Balanced Output is +6dBu
3. I've run through them, but am just evaluating flat since the Aune has no EQ. It's hard to describe but its like standard def vs 4k. With the Aune I can hear things way in the distance all the way up to near. With the RME, everything sounds like it's coming from inside my head. I don't know any EQ that can necessarily change that and those are the ideas I'm looking for.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Mar 2, 2020)

Maybe try running the RME SE into your amp. That's one obvious difference.

I can't unravel how you're coming up with the true output level. +6dB sounds ok but I'm sure that is a lot higher than what the AUNE is putting out. I think you wanna make sure the true output level is not more than that. I would turn off auto-ref and set fixed-output levels.

And if it still doesn't help, post on the RME forums.


----------



## SupperTime

How would you guys describe the difference in sound between all the filters on adi-2?


----------



## Dogmatrix

SupperTime said:


> How would you guys describe the difference in sound between all the filters on adi-2?


I think the difference is minimal , mostly treble roll off


----------



## SupperTime

Dogmatrix said:


> I think the difference is minimal , mostly treble roll off


Which wouold you say tames the treble the most? I have some bad recordings I need tamed haah


----------



## darmccombs

SupperTime said:


> Which wouold you say tames the treble the most? I have some bad recordings I need tamed haah


Slow or NOS


----------



## Hillskill

Is the RME fireface UfX II rack mount unit on par with this desktop amp/dac in this thread?


----------



## Dogmatrix

SupperTime said:


> Which wouold you say tames the treble the most? I have some bad recordings I need tamed haah


As @darmccombs says slow or nos , crossfeed also tames treble


----------



## SupperTime

Dogmatrix said:


> As @darmccombs says slow or nos , crossfeed also tames treble


What does polarity do really, it sounds different but I can't point what exactly it does


----------



## Dogmatrix

SupperTime said:


> What does polarity do really, it sounds different but I can't point what exactly it does


Polarity inverts phase , swaps the + and - connections to the headphone drivers . So where they previously pushed they now pull or vise versa at a given point in time . Absolute phase is a big subject some say it is vital to ensure correct phase others say it makes no difference . Some recordings are deliberately "out of phase" . I find the effect varies depending on headphones , planar are least effected and dynamic closed backs most . As I recommend with most everything experiment and go with what you like


----------



## MiloTx

MiloTx said:


> 1. Installed and then uninstalled because operationally better using WASAPI after they fixed the bugs.
> 2. Vol is -3dB, Ref Level is +13 dBu, Balanced Output is +6dBu
> 3. I've run through them, but am just evaluating flat since the Aune has no EQ. It's hard to describe but its like standard def vs 4k. With the Aune I can hear things way in the distance all the way up to near. With the RME, everything sounds like it's coming from inside my head. I don't know any EQ that can necessarily change that and those are the ideas I'm looking for.


Following up:
I'm an idiot, figured it out... it was the width! Factory Reset sets it at 0.00 which appears to me Mono... even though there is a Mono setting. Sounding much better now, thanks all!!

Now for some real listening time...


----------



## SupperTime

What is ref level and what does it do for me?


----------



## Dogmatrix

SupperTime said:


> What is ref level and what does it do for me?


Reference level comes into play when using an external amplifier . Use auto and it will adjust the dac output level in stages as you increase the volume . The idea is to use the highest level your amp can handle to achieve the best signal to noise ratio . Caution should be exercised since the dac is capable of professional line level output of around 10 volts however most amps are designed around a 1.5 to 2.5 volt line level .
This calculator is useful for converting dbu to voltage  

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm


----------



## Phoniac

MiloTx said:


> Following up: I'm an idiot



Definitely not! You did not give up, found the real problem, fixed it, and even had the guts to tell us all - I applaud such behaviour!

But when I reset my DAC it returns to Width 1.00, so no idea what changed it to 0 on yours.


----------



## MiloTx

Phoniac said:


> Definitely not! You did not give up, found the real problem, fixed it, and even had the guts to tell us all - I applaud such behaviour!
> 
> But when I reset my DAC it returns to Width 1.00, so no idea what changed it to 0 on yours.


I'm wondering about that, I have a few odd settings when I factory reset my DAC. Perhaps we are on difference versions of the firmware? v.33 here I believe the latest.


----------



## Phoniac

Here too. How do you do the reset? I push the top encoder and the VOL key while switching on.


----------



## SupperTime

Love the rme adi-2 dac, however the more I listen with it, it has a slight bright tone to it, with just about any headphone I plug into it, I use the crossfeed and the eq to tame the treble, but you know how it is, you have to barely do it so it didn't distort things up.
Is definitely a keeper as the clarity and resolution is just nuts. 
But what is a an amp around 1k$(I don't mind buying used) that xan give me a warm tone, really just looking for treble to be not sharp or peaky, to be tamed down yet still detailed.? I don't care about bass.


----------



## Simple Man

I would say a Violectric V280 or V281


----------



## Picard7

SupperTime said:


> Love the rme adi-2 dac, however the more I listen with it, it has a slight bright tone to it, with just about any headphone I plug into it, I use the crossfeed and the eq to tame the treble, but you know how it is, you have to barely do it so it didn't distort things up.
> Is definitely a keeper as the clarity and resolution is just nuts.
> But what is a an amp around 1k$(I don't mind buying used) that xan give me a warm tone, really just looking for treble to be not sharp or peaky, to be tamed down yet still detailed.? I don't care about bass.



One thought - the RME might be showing up the quality of your music files.

Cables can sometimes act as tone controls. Might be worth exploring that route before parting with 1K.


----------



## Quinto

Simple Man said:


> I would say a Violectric V280 or V281


+1


----------



## SupperTime

Picard7 said:


> One thought - the RME might be showing up the quality of your music files.
> 
> Cables can sometimes act as tone controls. Might be worth exploring that route before parting with 1K.


Yes I have some bad sharp peaky recordings that I love and cannot find clean files for them, mostly listen to streaming services to discover music before purchasing, so those suck too. Just need an amp that tones the treble down, takes peaky shouty tones out, but looses no detail...


----------



## NehPets

SupperTime said:


> Love the rme adi-2 dac, however the more I listen with it, it has a slight bright tone to it, with just about any headphone I plug into it, I use the crossfeed and the eq to tame the treble, but you know how it is, you have to barely do it so it didn't distort things up.
> Is definitely a keeper as the clarity and resolution is just nuts.
> But what is a an amp around 1k$(I don't mind buying used) that xan give me a warm tone, really just looking for treble to be not sharp or peaky, to be tamed down yet still detailed.? I don't care about bass.


Phatlab Chimera; thinking about picking one up myself.


----------



## SupperTime

What is this and how can I use it to my advantage.. What's the *best settings *?


----------



## Dogmatrix

SupperTime said:


> What is this and how can I use it to my advantage.. What's the *best settings *?


As it says it is a buffer so the unit gets slightly ahead of what is playing . If there is an error the unit will expend the buffer while it attempts to correct the error so hopefully there will be no audible glitch . If you listen to material which has a large number of errors (you are hearing skips or pops) set the buffer to a high number otherwise leave it on default .


----------



## SupperTime

Dogmatrix said:


> As it says it is a buffer so the unit gets slightly ahead of what is playing . If there is an error the unit will expend the buffer while it attempts to correct the error so hopefully there will be no audible glitch . If you listen to material which has a large number of errors (you are hearing skips or pops) set the buffer to a high number otherwise leave it on default .


I appreciate you, while I didn't notice any pops or clicks yet, I guess Ill leave it on the default...
Which is the 1000 plus


----------



## darmccombs (Mar 9, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> Love the rme adi-2 dac, however the more I listen with it, it has a slight bright tone to it, with just about any headphone I plug into it, I use the crossfeed and the eq to tame the treble, but you know how it is, you have to barely do it so it didn't distort things up.
> Is definitely a keeper as the clarity and resolution is just nuts.
> But what is a an amp around 1k$(I don't mind buying used) that xan give me a warm tone, really just looking for treble to be not sharp or peaky, to be tamed down yet still detailed.? I don't care about bass.


It may be worth searching online for EQ setting for your particular headphone(s).  A member here pointed me towards some EQ settings for my Sony Z7m2 and it cleaned up the bass and tamed the upper midrange peak I had.  It has helped good recording and bad.  Something like this page: http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=21753&start=540#p687882

I wouldn't buy more gear right away, when some EQ settings for your headphones, may fix things up for you.


----------



## Picard7

SupperTime said:


> Yes I have some bad sharp peaky recordings that I love and cannot find clean files for them, mostly listen to streaming services to discover music before purchasing, so those suck too. Just need an amp that tones the treble down, takes peaky shouty tones out, but looses no detail...



Try looking into some tube amps.


----------



## darmccombs (Mar 14, 2020)

Is the ADI-2 significantly impacted by the source device?

I currently stream Qobuz using an IPad Pro (via USB-C) or a Macbook Pro (via USB-C).  Would I see a noticeable improvement in Sound Quality if I switched to a DAP that streams Qobuz?  If so, about how much would I need to spend to see a decent increase?


----------



## JWahl

I've been using the ADI-2 DAC now for a few days and, as a total package, I absolutely love it.  I've owned some more expensive DACs and other gear, but had scaled down my setup awhile back due to budget constraints and perceived value.  For awhile, I've been using a Grace M9xx and Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk. 2.  I upgraded to a Liquid Platinum and then the RME as a source.  I'm really impressed with the thoughtful design and features, such as the loudness feature and auto-reference gain level.  I was originally looking into the Schiit Bifrost 2, having owned the Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil in the past.  But...I'm glad I chose the RME.  I suspect I might ultimately prefer the sound of the Bifrost 2, but the flexibility and features of the RME is what sold me.  

I feel like it's as resolving as I would like a DAC to be, while not committing any major sonic sins in the process.  The irony is if it weren't for reading some of the reviews and impressions I trust, I might have never considered this DAC.  The marketing is conservative and there's little to no FOTM buzzwords.  No crazy tap-length proprietary filters, no R2R, wall-wart switching supply, op-amps everywhere, etc.  Yet, the exceptional engineering behind the design shines through and shows what is possible with the right design.  And while it's not cheap, per se, I don't feel like I'm getting wildly overcharged relative to a lot of other equipment on the market.  It's just a good, honest product.

Also, the built in amp is much more capable than I was expecting with the HD-650.  Much more so than the Grace M9xx.  I still prefer the Gilmore Lite Mk. 2 and Liquid Platinum out of the RME, but if it came down to my M9xx + GLite Mk. 2 or only the RME at similar price limits, I'd choose the RME by itself.  Running the HD-650 balanced out of the Liquid Platinum just takes everything to the next level while preserving the resolution that the RME is capable of.  I try to keep the LP at a fixed volume and use the RME as volume control to take advantage of the loudness feature, auto-ref, and remote.  Now, it almost feels a little silly (or perhaps dated) to spend $1,000 plus on a DAC that's "just a DAC" with no additional features.  After about 10 years in this hobby, I've become tired of buying, selling, and trading DACs seeking minor tweaks that I can get with a few turns of a knob.  As long as my budget allows, I feel like I will be sticking with this one for awhile.  Great job, RME.


----------



## SupperTime

darmccombs said:


> Is the ADI-2 significantly impacted by the source device?
> 
> I currently stream Qobuz using an IPad Pro (via USB-C) or a Macbook Pro (via USB-C).  Would I see a noticeable improvement in Sound Quality if I switched to a DAP that streams Qobuz?  If so, about how much would I need to spend to see a decent increase?



Since I had rme adi-2 dac, I used my note 10 with adi-2 via USB c to usb b out. 
It sounds great. 
Recently I got a cardas clear usb cable and use it from my laptop to the rme. Sound is way way better. I no longer use my phone as transport.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

darmccombs said:


> Is the ADI-2 significantly impacted by the source device?
> 
> I currently stream Qobuz using an IPad Pro (via USB-C) or a Macbook Pro (via USB-C).  Would I see a noticeable improvement in Sound Quality if I switched to a DAP that streams Qobuz?  If so, about how much would I need to spend to see a decent increase?



Well no, it cannot be unless there is something wrong. Digital is digital. What happens during conversions is much more critical.


----------



## darmccombs

SupperTime said:


> Since I had rme adi-2 dac, I used my note 10 with adi-2 via USB c to usb b out.
> It sounds great.
> Recently I got a cardas clear usb cable and use it from my laptop to the rme. Sound is way way better. I no longer use my phone as transport.


Can you clarify, was moving from the phone to PC what made things sound "way better"?  Or, did you see an improvement by upgrading the USB cable from the Laptop to the RME?


----------



## SupperTime

From switching from phone to laptop with provided cable, made a significant difference in sound. More clarity, more punchy, more dynamic
The upgraded USB a to usb b I bought further improved sound by isolating the USB 5v and made the sound have less brightness, love it. Switched back to the *old ways* and was shocked at the significance of change


----------



## arielext

I've joined the ADI-2 DAC universe this week; need proper audio in isolation you know 
I should have done this before! I understand I'm in the honneymoon period with this dac/amp but I'm floored by the sheer amount of useful features.


----------



## darmccombs (Mar 19, 2020)

arielext said:


> I've joined the ADI-2 DAC universe this week; need proper audio in isolation you know
> I should have done this before! I understand I'm in the honneymoon period with this dac/amp but I'm floored by the sheer amount of useful features.


It may be the Honeymoon period now, but I think you'll like it even more in a couple weeks as you learn more about the EQ, Bass/Treble, Loudness and power output settings.  You can use these settings to optimize your sound quality, which really adds to the fun.


----------



## Deolum

Hello i'm considering buying the ADI-2 DAC FS. I have a few questions.

So far i'm using a chord Mojo as DAC. Is the ADI a significant improvement in terms of sound quality?

I could get a used Violectric HPA 200 for around 500€ which i could add to the Mojo. May this be the better option?

I could also get a Violectric DAC V800 and the HPA 200 for around 1000€. Is this comparable to the Adi? Better or worse sound or just different signature?

I don't use things like equalizer and all the gimmicks the Adi offers. Is it still worth the money then or should i just stick with the mojo instead?

My source would be an Ipad with Amazon Music HD. Is that sufficient?

Headphones are Grado GS1000e and Inear Prophile 8.

Thanks for any responds.


----------



## darmccombs (Mar 24, 2020)

Deolum said:


> Hello i'm considering buying the ADI-2 DAC FS. I have a few questions.
> 
> So far i'm using a chord Mojo as DAC. Is the ADI a significant improvement in terms of sound quality?
> 
> ...


I went from a Chord Mojo to the ADI a couple of months ago.  The ADI has more detail, and less warmth right out of the box.  You need to decide if that will be good with the headphones you have.  For me, it was a significant improvement.

Like you, I was against using EQ.  I never have liked EQ before.  But if your headphones have any significant peaks or drop in FR, then you may get a pleasant surprise if you try the EQ.  I didn't use it the first month, but then I tried it because my headphones has a couple of peaks/drop.  I found some eq settings online and tried them.  It really cleaned up the sound even more (less congestion and better separation of instruments).

I am very happy with the change from the Mojo to the ADI.  I think it comes down to weather lossing some warmth, and gaining detail, will be a good match with your headphones.

I also use an ipad (Pro, with USB-c in my case), see my signature.  I use use Qobuz but also have tried Amazon HD.  Both are sufficient to take advantage of sound changes between the Mojo and ADI.


----------



## SupperTime

Deolum said:


> Hello i'm considering buying the ADI-2 DAC FS. I have a few questions.
> 
> So far i'm using a chord Mojo as DAC. Is the ADI a significant improvement in terms of sound quality?
> 
> ...


----------



## PointyFox

You can't run a Mojo continuously without destroying the battery.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

PointyFox said:


> You can't run a Mojo continuously without destroying the battery.



Turns out (based on Rob Watts' response on the Mojo thread and many other users) that you can. The unit is built such that the battery does not constantly recharge when plugged in. It reaches full charge then the unit runs from the USB power. Rob did recommend to turn it off when not in use. And it does get hot, so I prefer not to use it this way.

More disappointingly, that thread also had a number of posts on how to remove the battery altogether and run it as a desktop amp/dac. Turns out that if you do that (super easy to do), the unit starts buzzing loudly when turned on with no battery connected. It does in my case and in the case of others. Not sure why.


----------



## Slaphead

PointyFox said:


> You can't run a Mojo continuously without destroying the battery.



You can once you've pulled the battery out, and disposed of it in an environmentally friendly way.

Honestly that battery is the Mojo's Achilles heel. Fortunately the Mojo will run without battery (not by design it must be said) as long as it's connected to a 10 or 12 watt PSU (12 watt is better)



CaptainFantastic said:


> Turns out (based on Rob Watts' response on the Mojo thread and many other users) that you can. The unit is built such that the battery does not constantly recharge when plugged in. It reaches full charge then the unit runs from the USB power. Rob did recommend to turn it off when not in use. And it does get hot, so I prefer not to use it this way.
> 
> More disappointingly, that thread also had a number of posts on how to remove the battery altogether and run it as a desktop amp/dac. *Turns out that if you do that (super easy to do), the unit starts buzzing loudly when turned on with no battery connected. It does in my case and in the case of others. Not sure why.*



It's coil whine - a completely normal phenomenon and often happens with high end video cards. Although in the case of the Mojo it sounds particularly nasty, it won't do any harm at all. Unfortunately Chord does not seem to be able to design a competent low cost charging circuit, a problem that all other electronics manufacturers solved two decades ago.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Slaphead said:


> You can once you've pulled the battery out, and disposed of it in an environmentally friendly way.
> 
> Honestly that battery is the Mojo's Achilles heel. Fortunately the Mojo will run without battery (not by design it must be said) as long as it's connected to a 10 or 12 watt PSU (12 watt is better)
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. As you said, it's particularly nasty on the Mojo. Can you help me understand how then it can still be stated that the Mojo can run without a battery? Who is willing to put up with that kind of noise while listening to music? Is it supposed to work with closed-backs? I just don't understand how anyone in this hobby could live with that when we are all trying to get nothing but the music from our systems. I am just honestly surprised several people posted in the Mojo thread that the battery can be removed and did not also offer this issue which basically = no, it cannot be used without the battery connected.


----------



## Slaphead (Mar 23, 2020)

CaptainFantastic said:


> Thanks for the info. As you said, it's particularly nasty on the Mojo. Can you help me understand how then it can still be stated that the Mojo can run without a battery? Who is willing to put up with that kind of noise while listening to music? Is it supposed to work with closed-backs? I just don't understand how anyone in this hobby could live with that when we are all trying to get nothing but the music from our systems. I am just honestly surprised several people posted in the Mojo thread that the battery can be removed and did not also offer this issue which basically = no, it cannot be used without the battery connected.



IME once the Mojo is put under load the noise reduces to a certain degree - I'm going to have to pull out my Mojo out and give it a try to confirm this. However I listen at volumes that effectively cover up that hissing, and listen to genres of music that may very well be not affected by the noise, or may even be improved by the noise


----------



## LONZO




----------



## SupperTime

LONZO said:


>


Love it. 
Whats that on top?


----------



## Deolum

SupperTime said:


> Love it.
> Whats that on top?


I think it's a Bluesound Node 2 streamer.


----------



## LONZO

SupperTime said:


> Love it.
> Whats that on top?


Yes. It's the Bluesound Node 2I.  Digital streamer extraordinaire. I have the coax digital out to the Adi DAC. Its sweet.


Deolum said:


> I think it's a Bluesound Node 2 streamer.


----------



## darmccombs

LONZO said:


> Yes. It's the Bluesound Node 2I.  Digital streamer extraordinaire. I have the coax digital out to the Adi DAC. Its sweet.


I run the same Bluesound Node 2i Coax -> RME ADI-2 at home.  The RME really makes the Bluesound sound nice.


----------



## Mutsu

In a stereo speaker setup what power amp are ADI-2 users using (if using a power amp)?

I just got an XTZ Edge A2 300 amp to try out with my ADI-2 versus my Aura Groove integrated (has inbuilt dac) and the sound is so so different I'm not sure if I like it or not yet (I really want to).

I definitely need the volume higher on the ADI-2 -> A2 300 for it to sound full and punchy, the Aura Groove has the punchy impact-full sound from low volumes. This is even with Loudness function enabled on the ADI-2 (although it helps). I think this is the most disappointing thing as I often listen at lower volumes.

Maybe I'm used to a more 'colored' listening experience and the ADI-2 -> A2 300 is closer to flat and to my ears a little metallic, bass weight light.

Given that the A2 300 amp is a forth the cost of the Aura Groove I think it does a lot of things better than it, just not sure if it's my tastes yet. Maybe I can learn to enjoy it.

I was really hoping to find a small form class-d power amp to pair with an ADI-2 that I plugged in and loved immediately. Same feeling I had when I got the ADI-2 for headphones.


----------



## Slaphead

I think what a lot of people miss is that the ADI-2 DAC isn't really aimed at the readership of this forum, although it's good that so many people like it.

It is a professional audio interface without the ADC functionality, and with a sonic signature designed to be as flat and as detailed as possible so that producers, mixing engineers and mastering engineers can make accurate decisions on the final musical product.

With that in mind I can believe that a lot of people find it not so punchy, or a bit thin in some circumstances. For me this sound signature is fantastic. I've not yet come across an audio interface that lays it out like this one, and it enables me to produce as a hobby knowing that whatever I do will work well with other listening gear.

Personally I don't like "HiFi" sounding gear like Chord or Audeze - it sounds artificial to me. Pleasant and musical, but ultimately lacking in realism from my point of view - I couldn't work with products from either brand. That said I do understand people who enjoy that flavour.

So with that in mind, if you're somebody looking for a device that will reveal everything, warts and all, then the RME ADI-2 will do that superbly. However if you're looking for something a bit more "HiFi" and coloured then "this is not the droid you're looking for".


----------



## betula

Slaphead said:


> I think what a lot of people miss is that the ADI-2 DAC isn't really aimed at the readership of this forum, although it's good that so many people like it.
> 
> It is a professional audio interface without the ADC functionality, and with a sonic signature designed to be as flat and as detailed as possible so that producers, mixing engineers and mastering engineers can make accurate decisions on the final musical product.
> 
> ...


Just to be clear, are you saying, Chord TT2 or Dave sound artificial?


----------



## Slaphead

betula said:


> Just to be clear, are you saying, Chord TT2 or Dave sound artificial?



I've heard the Dave, Mojo and Hugo2, but not the TT2, but in all honesty yes, but then again all my gear is pro audio based, so it may be just a case of what sounds more real to me.


----------



## bidn (Apr 27, 2020)

Slaphead said:


> I think what a lot of people miss is that the ADI-2 DAC isn't really aimed at the readership of this forum, although it's good that so many people like it.
> 
> It is a professional audio interface without the ADC functionality, and with a sonic signature designed to be as flat and as detailed as possible so that producers, mixing engineers and mastering engineers can make accurate decisions on the final musical product.
> 
> ...



Hi Slaphead,

I agree with your general ideas, and find it very right that you stress that the RME products belong to the pro audio world, unlike many products on this site.

"High-Fidelity", as the name says, means realism, neutrality. So, by this definition, products like RME ADI-2 DAC are actually truly High Fidelity, much more than most products here which are rather "audiophile" in the sense of "euphonic".

I think that the "audiophile" word is responsible for a lot of confusion.
It means only someone who likes audio a lot (thus would be ready to invest a lot of time and money for it). It was first coined in France, and was originally used for people looking after high fidelity (i.e. what the pro audio world like RME strives to). The problem is that the "audiophile" word is not synonymous with high-fidelity and was soon used by companies producing expensive products with a euphonic presentation, i.e. definitely not neutral, more pleasing than in reality, but then not high-fidelity.
So some people unconsciously use "audiophile" in the sense of high-fidelity while other use it with the opposite sense (euphonic) and some others are even inconsistent with themselves, alternating between the two perspectives (sometime meaning high-fidelity, sometimes meaning euphonic).

I think that you nailed a nice example with Audeze, I own several of their products of their LCD series, they are definitely not neutral, but I find their presentation often more pleasant for listening to metal music than a realist one (metal uses all the frequency range, the electric guitar can be quite fatiguing, but my Audeze LCDs help here with their large dip in the low treble), though I strive for neutrality. One most extreme case for me is the LCD-4, I auditioned several times some of them at my dealer,, once with the intent of purchasing it, yet it was so far off from neutrality that it was far beyond what I could accept. And yet it is very expensive (€ 5000 here in Europe!) and many audiophiles absolutely love its sound.

Re. solid-state DAC-amps I auditioned, an example of products in my experience which are rather euphonic [edit: was audiophile] than high-fidelity would be Questyle's, as opposed to RME's. I find them artificially thickening the sound, a bit like tube amps usually do.

Re. Chord products (owning a Mojo, and having auditioned several times the Hugo 2 and many times the Dave which I find fantastic for driving the Utopia), to me they sound neutral, but I also have a feeling as if they would embellish the sound, I can't explain it nor find a fault, it eludes me. (In general I absolutely hate their design and find them very unpractical, with a ugly, irritating color system, often lacking essential things like a volume knob or sometimes not being stackable like the Dave, etc.).

I often saw people arguing because they mean different things. It would be better if they would clarify whether they are speaking from a high-fidelity or from a euphonic [edit: was audiophile] perspective.

All the best and keep healthy,
bidn

[EDIT 26.03.2020 : I changed at some places "audiophile" into "euphonic", to make a clearer contrast with "High Fidelity"]


----------



## Mutsu

Slaphead said:


> I think what a lot of people miss is that the ADI-2 DAC isn't really aimed at the readership of this forum, although it's good that so many people like it.
> 
> It is a professional audio interface without the ADC functionality, and with a sonic signature designed to be as flat and as detailed as possible so that producers, mixing engineers and mastering engineers can make accurate decisions on the final musical product.
> 
> ...



I agree. Actually one of the draws for me to the ADI-2 DAC was the flat frequency response, I could really tell the difference from auditioning it with my headphones against other 'hifi' dac/amps.

I've also got EQ set up to use with my Empyreans for Harmon Target, this seems to elevate the treble frequencies on the Empyrean but the it still sounds well rounded.

Previously I had owned desktop studio monitors and loved the flat response, but these were also well rounded and punchy.

I'm wondering if my speakers aren't the best for gear with a flat response, or if I need to try room correction. As I do think I like a flat response based on previous experience.


----------



## Mutsu

bidn said:


> Re. Chord products (owning a Mojo, and having auditioned several times the Hugo 2 and many time the Dave which I find fantastic for driving the Utopia), to me they sound neutral, but I also have a feeling as if they would embellish the sound, I can't explain it nor find a fault, it eludes me. (In general I absolutely hate their design and find them very unpractical, with a ugly, irritating color system, often lacking essential things like a volume knob or sometimes not being stackable like the Dave, etc.).



I auditioned the Hugo 2 a couple of times against the ADI-2 (and others), and out of all the Dac/amp combos I tried, the Hugo 2 and the ADI-2 sounded most similar to me. But I agree there is something extra embellishing the sound on the Hugo 2, only very very slightly to my ears, but noticeable. The ADI-2 was half the price and sounded just as good, plus had more features, so it was an easy decision for me to go with the ADI-2.

And yea, I'm not a fan of the Chord designs too.


----------



## alexdemaet

bryceu said:


> You would need an amp with 2x balanced headphone outputs.
> 
> Or two amps with balanced headphone outputs, and an XLR splitter like this: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/YXM121--hosa-yxm-121-y-cable-xlr3f-to-dual-xlr3m-6-inch (Never personally used one so might want to double check what the cable does to line voltage)
> 
> Or, you can toggle your RME to "Mute Line OFF" and have one balanced headphone plugged into the 789, and another directly into your RME ADI-2 Phones output via an adapter like this: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4768 (I use this type of cable frequently to convert my balanced headphone cables into 1/4")


Does anyone know if the Cardas Sennheiser HD6xx cable is balanced? From Moon-Audio I read "You can convert a balanced connection back to single ended. This is not a problem at all as long as your main headphone cable is balanced, then you can add an adapter cable. "
http://cardas.com/headphone_cable.php


----------



## gimmeheadroom

<REDACTED>


----------



## cazone

Just received a rme adi-2 dac and a hifiman sundara as a rescue homeoffice quarantaine setup. 
Really like it so far


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Congrats man. Stay safe and stay positive. The ADI-2 is a treat. If you haven't already, look up on Youtube the excellent 5 minute videos on how to set your EQ profiles for multiple headphones, etc. They are posted directly by RME and an easier introduction to the rich features than the manual.


----------



## Dogmatrix

alexdemaet said:


> Does anyone know if the Cardas Sennheiser HD6xx cable is balanced? From Moon-Audio I read "You can convert a balanced connection back to single ended. This is not a problem at all as long as your main headphone cable is balanced, then you can add an adapter cable. "
> http://cardas.com/headphone_cable.php


Yes it is "4 x 23.5 AWG conductors" as long as you have four conductors at the plug end it is balanced . You will need balanced plug however , either four pin xlr or two three pin xlr or two mono .


----------



## alexdemaet

Dogmatrix said:


> Yes it is "4 x 23.5 AWG conductors" as long as you have four conductors at the plug end it is balanced . You will need balanced plug however , either four pin xlr or two three pin xlr or two mono .


Thanks , I also mailed Cardas and Moon-Audio for more info


----------



## betula

Out of interest guys, how many of you are using an external amp with the ADI2 for headphone listening?
If I could read some impressions mentioning your headphone and amp choice or the reason you don't need an amp that would be great.
Many thanks!


----------



## CaptainFantastic

betula said:


> Out of interest guys, how many of you are using an external amp with the ADI2 for headphone listening?
> If I could read some impressions mentioning your headphone and amp choice or the reason you don't need an amp that would be great.
> Many thanks!



In 15 months of ownership I tried mine with the Gilmore Lite Mk2 and found that I preferred it without. This was based on testing with the low impedance Audeze MX-4 and the high impedance HD-600. As I recall, the Mk2 added some minor but immediately audible harshness to the sound.

I have now ordered a tube amp, Woo Audio WA3, as I understand it will pair well with the 300 ohm headphones which I currently own and will potentially acquire this year. I will report back once I get the WA3 and test it.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

betula said:


> Out of interest guys, how many of you are using an external amp with the ADI2 for headphone listening?
> If I could read some impressions mentioning your headphone and amp choice or the reason you don't need an amp that would be great.
> Many thanks!



I am for some headphones and not others. For me the ADI-2 drives my Audezes well/extremely and my Fostex perfectly. Also HD 25 as expected.

I was not happy with it driving my Sennheisers (600, 800). I don't listen to them out of the RME at all anymore, usually they're connected to a V280 driven by a Mytek Brooklyn balanced all the way.


----------



## screwdriver

i might just try out this dac soon maybe after the covid stuff if im still alive LOL .  i wanna make the system simple -im coming from  from oppo 105 to rhnp to focal clears


----------



## PointyFox

The ADI-2 DAC drives my HD800S well.


----------



## silvahr

ADI-2 + Beyerdynamic Xelento and this song is an unbelievable experience.



With that pair all the album is an out of this world experience.

And in hard times is good to travel to somewhere else.

Great weekend for all!


----------



## cazone

CaptainFantastic said:


> Congrats man. Stay safe and stay positive. The ADI-2 is a treat. If you haven't already, look up on Youtube the excellent 5 minute videos on how to set your EQ profiles for multiple headphones, etc. They are posted directly by RME and an easier introduction to the rich features than the manual.



Hi! 
Thanks for the support. 

I have the RME for two days now. 
I use it with the qobuz app. 
On a win 10 laptop. 
I think since I did the firmware update to v34 the samplerate is not switching automatically anymore.
Installed the drivers. And de installed them again. 
I use wasapi exclusive mode. 
But the rme is stuck on 96.


I saw you ask some questions about this issue on the rme forum. Did you get an answer? 




Thanks!


----------



## cazone

Just reinstalled the latest (Version 0.9716) of the RME MADIface usb driver. 
Now sample rate switching in the Qobuz app seems to work ... 

I also almost "passed" the bit perfect test in foobar. Everything's fine except the 32bit


----------



## Hillskill

Slaphead said:


> It is a professional audio interface without the ADC functionality, and with a sonic signature designed to be as flat and as detailed as possible so that producers, mixing engineers and mastering engineers can make accurate decisions on the final musical product.



I’d really like one of these units for my office/studio. I record a lot of voice over, Will this accept an XLR/TRS out from my mic preamp and convert to digital? The rack mount RME fire face units look like major overkill for my needs with several inputs and outputs.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

cazone said:


> I think since I did the firmware update to v34



Are you sure it is v34? I see v33 as the latest on the RME forum. https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewforum.php?id=21


----------



## cazone

don't know. ..
I downloaded the latest firmware and it's written V.34 on startup.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I think 34 is for the power ring LED, there was a component change. No functional changes between 33 and 34.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Hillskill said:


> I’d really like one of these units for my office/studio. I record a lot of voice over, Will this accept an XLR/TRS out from my mic preamp and convert to digital? The rack mount RME fire face units look like major overkill for my needs with several inputs and outputs.



No, I don't believe there is any ADC function.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

There are some pretty good and cheap USB audio interfaces that provide ADC for TRS input. There must be for XLR also, I am just not aware of any off the top of my head.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Aha, so to get to v34 one has to download the flash update from here - https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads.html . Sorry for being obvious, was just used to updating from the forum link in the sticky post at the top.


----------



## Slaphead

Hillskill said:


> I’d really like one of these units for my office/studio. I record a lot of voice over, Will this accept an XLR/TRS out from my mic preamp and convert to digital? The rack mount RME fire face units look like major overkill for my needs with several inputs and outputs.



For that you'll need the ADI-2 Pro, which is quite a bit more expensive - https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-pro-fs-be.html

Be aware that you will need a mic preamp (which you've already got) to feed the inputs, there are no RCA type inputs or outputs - it's a pro device, and there's no 3.5mm HP jack, but you can combine the 2 6.3mm HP jacks for balanced headphone operation - if you think that's important.


----------



## happydaze

Anyone have experience comparing the amp portions of the ADI-DAC and Pro-FSR (AK4493 chipsets)? For someone not interested in any ADC functionality, is the price differential to gain the more powerful balanced outputs warranted? I understand that the DAC portion of the devices is identical. I'm mainly looking to power ZMF Eikons for now but that can change in the future.


----------



## Hillskill

Slaphead said:


> For that you'll need the ADI-2 Pro, which is quite a bit more expensive - https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-pro-fs-be.html
> 
> Be aware that you will need a mic preamp (which you've already got) to feed the inputs, there are no RCA type inputs or outputs - it's a pro device, and there's no 3.5mm HP jack, but you can combine the 2 6.3mm HP jacks for balanced headphone operation - if you think that's important.



Thanks. Looks ideal for me and there is a rack mount accessory too.


----------



## betula (Apr 1, 2020)

I have been in this hobby for many years (10+?). I have exponentially improved my gear from a Fiio X3 (first gen!) with Sennheiser IE80 to Meze Empyrean and Chord Hugo TT2 as my budget allowed. The road between these two combos was, oh man, mighty long.
I have tried and/or owned most available headphones on the market, including TOTL ones like Verité, 800S, Utopia, LCD4. I owned many DACs and amps from Chord Qutest to Questyle 600i and Taurus MKII.
I find my current combo of TT2 and Empyrean absolutely beautiful, by far the best I have ever heard or owned. I did try the MScaler with this combo which was absolutely phenomenal, but for another £3500. That is unfortunately out of my current budget.

In all fairness, my TT2 and Empy combo is already pretty much out of my budget. This is why I am considering selling them and using the money elsewhere in life like travelling which is my other main hobby. (I know, 2020 won't be the best year for travelling.)

Most TOTL gear and TOTL headphones to my experience strive to represent lifelike vocals and instruments; most of this can be found in the 'midrange'. It seems, these days a 'high-end' audio consumer is still considered to be a classical&jazz fan. IMO this is why the Utopia or even the 800S is not an absolute success. They both lack at the bass department when you compare them to TOTL planars. You don't really need that planar bass extension and clarity/dynamics with classical or jazz but you definitely need it with modern music.

If you like modern genres, or electronic music like ambient (Carbon Based Lifeforms) perhaps you don't need to spend 5 times more you can actually afford.
In my experience, after a certain level in audio the extra money you pay goes for more lifelike sound representation. But this is only relevant to you if you are into acoustic instruments or vocals.

It is all about finding your priorities and your goals.

I have _impulse bought _an ADI2 and LCD2C, so I will have a chance to compare them to my existing TT2/Empyrean combo.
The TT2 and Empy of course completely destroys the ADI2 with the 2C, no question about it. That said, the ADI2 with the 2C is a pretty fine combo, actually quite excellent for the price: fine sound for £1400 versus spectacular sound for £6000.

I will report back (in 2-3 days) once I have received my ADI2 (first purchase) and my LCD2C (fourth purchase).
There are two potential outcomes:
1, Considering my financial needs and plans I decide to sell the Empy _and_ my TT2, keeping the ADI2 and LCD2C. Enjoying music plus adding £3800 (!) to my bank account.
2, Me liking ADI 2 a lot but can't let Empy go, so saving '_only_' £2200 by selling my spectacular TT2 and using ADI2 with Empy.


----------



## JohnM-73

I’ve just returned an RME ADI-2 DAC FS after thinking of doing what you are doing, to save a little cash. Without wishing to ruffle any feathers with happy RME ADI-2 DAC users in their own thread, I was left very disappointed with the ADI, but only in direct comparison to TT2. Just lacked the TT2s incredible detail levels, it’s gorgeous treble, it’s dynamic snap, sound-staging and that ability to really ‘hear into’ the production. By direct comparidon, I felt the RME felt kind of ‘flat’, by comparison. According to the objective measurements are all crowd, they should both sound the same. I wish that had been the case as it would have saved me over £3k. I’ll likely end up keeping TT2 if I don’t get any buyers soon. Sometimes you don’t know what you had until it’s gone... I suspect it’ll be this way with TT2, even though the extra funds would be nice to have again. The only relatively affordable DAC I’ve also tried, using a ‘standard’ DAC chipset, which was reasonably close in performance to the TT2 was the Benchmark DAC3 HGC. If I do indeed ‘downgrade’ it’ll likely be to a DAC3 again. Good luck with whatever direction you choose to go in.


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## soLicitous (Mar 31, 2020)

I don't see why anyone would be upset, or even surprised, that a Chord Hugo TT 2 would be considered a better DAC than the ADI-2 DAC. Here in the US the TT 2 is over 5x the cost... I'd only be upset if_ I couldn't_ hear a definitive improvement.


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## acguitar84

I'd love to hear a Chord Hugo TT 2 sometime, sounds intriguing! But in the meantime, I still really love the ADI-2.


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## paulybatz

I am considering the RME pro model because of the true balanced output.

Thoughts opinions I’ve read about 50 pages and it looks like most people are happy, I think for me it is the ability to use the equalizer that is a big sale and the neutrality


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## soLicitous

paulybatz said:


> I am considering the RME pro model because of the true balanced output.
> 
> Thoughts opinions I’ve read about 50 pages and it looks like most people are happy, I think for me it is the ability to use the equalizer that is a big sale and the neutrality


Seems like people are happy with the Pro model from what I've read as well. My personal preference for IEMs is why I chose to go with the non-Pro model... I'm hoping that IEM output lives up to the hype.


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## paulybatz

I think you should be goodness
The only reason I’m going for pro is the true balanced output.


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## musicmaker

Let's see - the RME Pro FS is $1700. The Chord TT2 is $5500.
Not even a fair comparison and I'd be very concerned if the TT2 didnt sound better given the price.

A better comparison would be the RME vs the Hugo 2. Even then the Hugo 2 is $2500 vs $1700 for the RME. Having owned both, I much preferred the RME and sold the Hugo 2. Its not even close imo. The RME was the better sounding unit by a large margin to my ears.


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## paulybatz

Good to know musicmaker


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## PoSR77 (Apr 4, 2020)

Is the regular version powerful enough to drive the Arya's or would the Pro be needed? I've been reading conflicting views.

EDIT: I'm tempted to get the RME just for the dac and SQ options and then pair it with something like the SPL Phonitor XE for an endgame setup. But I hate the idea of spending more on an amp than the headphone, for I strongly feel the headphone makes the most difference in sound.


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## paulybatz

Depends what’s its requirements?


----------



## SupperTime

Anyone have the Hugo 2 and the rme?


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## paulybatz

I think someone talked about this earlier.


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## Hellraiser86

SupperTime said:


> Anyone have the Hugo 2 and the rme?


Yes I have both


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## SupperTime

Hellraiser86 said:


> Yes I have both


Sound quality alone, which has the highest resolution, transparency? 
Which has the less shouty, fatiguing sound?


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## Hellraiser86

SupperTime said:


> Sound quality alone, which has the highest resolution, transparency?
> Which has the less shouty, fatiguing sound?


The RME sounds more neutral to me but less dynamic and less accurate in imaging than Hugo. That are the main differences I hear. 

In terms of resolution and transparency they are both on par, as long as you don’t apply any oversampling. But if you do I hear a slight benefit on the ADI.
These devices both don’t shouty but I can listen longer to the Chord.

If you are going to use these units alone with no external amp behind it, I would recommend the Hugo (and if price is no object here). The amp is a lot better (but hisses slightly with sensitive IEMs).


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## haweckO

regular RME ADI-2 DAC FS (non-pro version) isn't fully balanced dac?


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## gimmeheadroom

haweckO said:


> regular RME ADI-2 DAC FS (non-pro version) isn't fully balanced dac?



It has balanced XLR outputs.


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## paulybatz

Not true balanced phones, I know that 
Pro is


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## haweckO

paulybatz said:


> Not true balanced phones, I know that
> Pro is



but rear XLR ports are fully balanced, right?


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## gimmeheadroom

haweckO said:


> but rear XLR ports are fully balanced, right?



They're balanced. As far as I know balanced comes in only one flavor. Either it's balanced or not. It is not a matter of degree.


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## Dogmatrix

haweckO said:


> but rear XLR ports are fully balanced, right?


If I am reading the manual correctly the xlr outputs on pro and dac models are the same and both balanced .
The pro model uses one dac chip for the rear xlr and se outputs as does the dac model . In the pro model however a second dac chip and amplifier is used to create an independent  headphone output , this can be used to allow two headphones to be driven or balanced headphones .


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## betula (Apr 9, 2020)

The RME ADI2 is a very good DAC(amp). Gives you a glimpse of high-end sound for the fraction of the money. Clear, detailed, neutral. I was somewhat surprised about the smoothness. After reading comments about 'studio sound', 'mastering equipment', 'poor amp section' I was slightly worried that the sound will be boring, maybe too clean and clinical, too sterile lacking the enjoyment factor.
I have to say the RME to me is a pleasant surprise. Yes it is neutral and quite transparent, yes it is uncoloured, but it is not boring at all and while accurate it is not sharp or clinical at all. I was really surprised about the smoothness. But with that pleasant smoothness it still maintains clarity and has enough dynamism.
Bargain audio equipment for the price, that is for sure. Not surprised it is sold out from almost all the UK shops.
It is a perfect pairing with headphones who already have a 'great personality' like the Audeze LCD2C.


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## CaptainFantastic

betula said:


> The RME ADI2 is a very good DAC(amp). Gives you a glimpse of high-end sound for the fraction of the money. Clear, detailed, neutral. I was somewhat surprised about the smoothness. After reading comments about 'studio sound', 'mastering equipment', 'poor amp section' I was slightly worried that the sound will be boring, maybe too clean and clinical, too sterile lacking the enjoyment factor.
> I have to say the RME to me is a pleasant surprise. Yes it is neutral and quite transparent, yes it is uncoloured, but it is not boring at all and while accurate it is not sharp or clinical at all. I was really surprised about the smoothness. But with that pleasant smoothness it still maintains clarity and has enough dynamism.
> Bargain audio equipment for the price, that is for sure. Not surprised it is sold out from almost all the UK shops.
> It is a perfect pairing with headphones who already have a 'great personality' like the Audeze LCD2C.



Thank you for your thoughts. I own the RME ADI-2 and have been toying with the idea of upgrading to a TT2 after hearing it in an audiophile shop. You have the reverse the situation... owned the TT2 for a long time, now go to experience the ADI-2. What are your thoughts there? How much of a step down is it TT2 to ADI-2? Playing around with percentages, 2%, 5%, 10%?


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## betula

CaptainFantastic said:


> Thank you for your thoughts. I own the RME ADI-2 and have been toying with the idea of upgrading to a TT2 after hearing it in an audiophile shop. You have the reverse the situation... owned the TT2 for a long time, now go to experience the ADI-2. What are your thoughts there? How much of a step down is it TT2 to ADI-2? Playing around with percentages, 2%, 5%, 10%?


The difference is obvious and undeniable. We are talking about £800 versus £4000. Diminishing return kicks in hard over 1K. The TT2 is immediately and obviously better, but whether it is worth the price for you is extremely subjective. 
High-end gear manufacturers to my experience work on achieving the most lifelike sound. The TT2 is _much_ more lifelike when it comes to vocals or instruments. You feel more like you were there at the time of the recording. But at the same time the RME is very enjoyable as well, as a music (re)playing device. The realism factor isn't there, but with electronic or modern music it is not needed as much as it is with classical or jazz. 
If you force me to give you percentages and numbers I would say the RME gives 60% of what the TT2 offers. At least from my individual enjoyment factor. 
Whether the extra £3200 is worth for you depends on your wallet, your music genre preference, your aim and priorities in life and countless other factors...

The ADI2 is a fabulous piece of kit for £800. Competes with some of the £2K offerings in my experience. The TT2 is a high-end luxury product. It is obviously much better than the RME when it comes to recreating the surroundings of the recording, but whether the difference is worth 3 grands to you is extremely personal.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Still a huge fan of my ADI-2 DAC almost a year later. I compared the RME's amp to an SMSL SP200 (THX) and a Violectric V280 here:


----------



## Gww1

I'm hoping somebody here might be able answer a question I have:

If I connect a Sony WM1A/Z to an ADI 2 Dac using the usb OTG adapter, will the ADI 2 Dac automatically change to the correct sampling rate? Or will it resample everything to what the ADI 2 is set to?

For information I have the correct adapter and have tried it successfully with other DACs but wanted to check the functionality specifically with the ADI 2, hopefully with people that have tried it.


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## technobear

Gww1 said:


> I'm hoping somebody here might be able answer a question I have:
> 
> If I connect a Sony WM1A/Z to an ADI 2 Dac using the usb OTG adapter, will the ADI 2 Dac automatically change to the correct sampling rate? Or will it resample everything to what the ADI 2 is set to?
> 
> For information I have the correct adapter and have tried it successfully with other DACs but wanted to check the functionality specifically with the ADI 2, hopefully with people that have tried it.


There is no 'ADI is set to'. It processes whatever you feed it.


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## Gww1

technobear said:


> There is no 'ADI is set to'. It processes whatever you feed it.


Thanks for the reply, so you have tried it with a WM1A/Z?
I used to own an ADI 2 Dac and had issues with switching in Windows 10 with WASAPI so wanted to confirm the Sony DAPs had no issues.


----------



## technobear

Gww1 said:


> Thanks for the reply, so you have tried it with a WM1A/Z?
> I used to own an ADI 2 Dac and had issues with switching in Windows 10 with WASAPI so wanted to confirm the Sony DAPs had no issues.


Android is not Windows 10. Linux is not Windows 10. Whatever is in the Sony is not Windows 10.


----------



## Gww1

technobear said:


> Android is not Windows 10. Linux is not Windows 10. Whatever is in the Sony is not Windows 10.


That is correct and I'm not here to argue.....

I would really appreciate it if somebody who has tried using a WM1A/Z as a USB input to the ADI 2 Dac could confirm there are no issue and the sample rate automatically switches correctly.


----------



## captblaze

Gww1 said:


> That is correct and I'm not here to argue.....
> 
> I would really appreciate it if somebody who has tried using a WM1A/Z as a USB input to the ADI 2 Dac could confirm there are no issue and the sample rate automatically switches correctly.



what do you think?


----------



## Gww1

captblaze said:


> what do you think?


Perfect! Thank you for this


----------



## brad1138

Can anyone explain the "digital and analog" volume control? I can't find info on it, just read somewhere that that is what it had.


----------



## lattugatartaruga

Gww1 said:


> Perfect! Thank you for this



wait, what exactly did you do here ? how did you hook it up...I'm curious?


----------



## VictorRad

Hi folks. I'm using Arya with RME ADI-2 DAC (AK4493) on low gain because when I switch to high gain music gets more congested and looses its deepness (more flat and 2D). But on high gain music has more details and dynamics. ADI-2 is very flexible in configuration and it might be possible to tweak it somehow to get better sense of deepness and instrument separation on high gain. Does anyone has the same issues with ADI-2? Maybe I need more brain burn-in )


----------



## technobear

brad1138 said:


> Can anyone explain the "digital and analog" volume control? I can't find info on it, just read somewhere that that is what it had.


http://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2dac_e.pdf


----------



## Gww1

lattugatartaruga said:


> wait, what exactly did you do here ? how did you hook it up...I'm curious?


You can get an adapter (Wmc-Nwh10) that lets you use the Sony DAPs as a USB audio player that can connect to a DAC.


----------



## lattugatartaruga (Apr 12, 2020)

Gww1 said:


> You can get an adapter (Wmc-Nwh10) that lets you use the Sony DAPs as a USB audio player that can connect to a DAC.



oh wow, I had no idea, damn I'm such a nubb  might pick that up...thanks!

ps. any idea if this is supported with the ZX300 ?


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## Gww1

lattugatartaruga said:


> ps. any idea if this is supported with the ZX300 ?


Yes I believe so


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## betula

I have to say, the guys at RME did a better job with the ASIO Windows driver than Chord did. With the RME DAC I can swap between Foobar and YouTube by just pausing the playback on Foodbar and I also don't have to change the Windows audio playback device with extra two clicks. With the TT2 I have to close Foobar and change the playback device. Small annoyance, but for someone who often changes from listening to music to online content and vice versa this adds to the convenience level a lot.


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## CaptainFantastic

Today I switched the color from green to amber and it's like I have a whole new toy. Also re-watched the excellent RME video on setting the EQ and experimenting with the slightly adjusted sound on two of my headphones. This unit is amazing. [purchased Dec 2018 and the honeymoon period going strong.]


----------



## smokecrack (Apr 21, 2020)

I'm thinking about buying a used ADI-2 and had a few questions:

I plan to use these with a set of Etymotic ER4XR and Mr. Speakers / Massdrop Ether CX. Does anyone have experience using this unit with either of those? I'd love to hear your feedback.
I had a custom cable made for my ER4XR that includes a working remote/mic. The mic works just fine with my Galaxy S10e and my macbook. Should my mic work when plugged into the ADI-2's IEM port or is that not supported. I couldn't find anything when searching, but guessing it won't work.
Just to be clear, I can just hold the volume button to switch which output I'm using (IEM, 1/4" or RCA outs) right? I don't really want to mess with menus to switch this since I do it frequently. And I plan to put the remote away.
Will the volume automatically be saved when I change it on all of the outputs? For example, I'm listening to my headphones on the 1/4" and turn the volume to 25%. I switch outputs to IEM and set the volume to 15%. If I switch outputs again back to the 1/4" port will it still be set to 25%?
Thanks guys and sorry for the questions. Big purchase for me (took me 2 years to save for it!)


----------



## WildStyle-R11

smokecrack said:


> I'm thinking about buying a used ADI-2 and had a few questions:
> 
> I plan to use these with a set of Etymotic ER4XR and Mr. Speakers / Massdrop Ether CX. Does anyone have experience using this unit with either of those? I'd love to hear your feedback.
> I had a custom cable made for my ER4XR that includes a working remote/mic. The mic works just fine with my Galaxy S10e and my macbook. Should my mic work when plugged into the ADI-2's IEM port or is that not supported. I couldn't find anything when searching, but guessing it won't work.
> ...



2 - Well the IEM's will work, but the mic won't as it has no input.
3 - Just hold it down for a bit and it will switch. You can also modify any of the buttons to do whatever you want, before this feature was introduced I used the "vol" key to switch outputs.
4 - All 3 outputs stay to whatever you set it to. I have different volumes for all of them and it always go back to whatever I set it to last.


----------



## smokecrack

WildStyle-R11 said:


> 2 - Well the IEM's will work, but the mic won't as it has no input.
> 3 - Just hold it down for a bit and it will switch. You can also modify any of the buttons to do whatever you want, before this feature was introduced I used the "vol" key to switch outputs.
> 4 - All 3 outputs stay to whatever you set it to. I have different volumes for all of them and it always go back to whatever I set it to last.



Awesome, thanks so much for your help.


----------



## smokecrack

Update: I bought one and absolutely love it.


----------



## Overclocked11

So question all you ADI-2 Owners.. what amps are you pairing with it? I'm currently going direct out of mine and curious if there are any good amp synergies known.. I've looked around, but haven't seen too many clear paths. Not to say I'm not pleased with the output from ADI-2, but curious none the less.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Overclocked11 said:


> So question all you ADI-2 Owners.. what amps are you pairing with it? I'm currently going direct out of mine and curious if there are any good amp synergies known.. I've looked around, but haven't seen too many clear paths. Not to say I'm not pleased with the output from ADI-2, but curious none the less.



I use it straight into HD 25s, Fostex TRs, and more than half the time into LCD-2C or 3F. Otherwise, it runs into a Lyr 2 when I want a bit more slam from the Audezes.

I have another DAC and amp combo I run my Sennheiser 600s and 800s out of. I feel neither dacamp I have is enough for the big Sennies.


----------



## JKDJedi

Mr B1 said:


> Hi all. New RME user here (Adam A5X monitors, AFC headphones, LCD2C on order, sold PM3 and HE4XX, considering adding the Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk2).
> 
> I've been using it for 2 weeks now. Very happy with this DAC and extremely impressed how easy it is to use once the navigation structure 'clicks'. Also, the ability to EQ a headphone with from what I can hear no loss to quality, the auto-switch of EQ profile when going to line-out..it's all extremely well thought out and it's smarts seem to never interfere with listening. It has all the hallmarks of having being programmed by people who use what they make.
> 
> ...


Sounds like your PC has an optical output, or did you use some other type of external scrubber (USB Regen, iFi Purifier))? Thinking that a unit ( RME ADI-2) at this cost might have one built into it already, or is that wishful thinking?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

JKDJedi said:


> Sounds like your PC has an optical output, or did you use some other type of external scrubber (USB Regen, iFi Purifier))? Thinking that a unit ( RME ADI-2) at this cost might have one built into it already, or is that wishful thinking?



Google Search: "rme adi-2 dac optiocal input"

Even gives me the answer despite the typo.


----------



## Marutks

I pair my ADI-2 with ECP T4 when I want tubey sound.


----------



## JKDJedi

Marutks said:


> I pair my ADI-2 with ECP T4 when I want tubey sound.


Was thinking of getting this dac just for that, to hook it up to my OTL amp but am wondering if it's overkill to what I already have, iFi Black Label.


----------



## Hellraiser86

Overclocked11 said:


> So question all you ADI-2 Owners.. what amps are you pairing with it? I'm currently going direct out of mine and curious if there are any good amp synergies known.. I've looked around, but haven't seen too many clear paths. Not to say I'm not pleased with the output from ADI-2, but curious none the less.


I use the SPL Phonitor XE with it. It is the most neutral amp I came across and that’s awesome because the sound of your DAC is not changing. On top it has better separation and dynamics. The functions for Crossfeed sound awesome too. No comparison to the bad sounding one in the RME.


----------



## hikaru12 (Apr 24, 2020)

Has anyone tried this DAC with the LCD 3 prefazor? So far I’ve read that the LCD X and 2 work well with it both probably because they’re neutral and warm respectively. I want a DAC in the $2k ballpark that gives me a good amount of detail without sounding etched like a regular D/S would.

I’ve narrowred down my selection to the RME or the Holo Spring. The Gumby I had previously sounded too warm and glossed over too much detail IMO. I know NOS is not known for its detail but I’m hoping at a high enough level it can preserve enough of it at the $1k level like these DACs have. I’ve had the chance to listen to the Holo before and it sounds amazingly relaxed and smooth. Makes everything just sound effortless.


----------



## Mr B1

JKDJedi said:


> Sounds like your PC has an optical output, or did you use some other type of external scrubber (USB Regen, iFi Purifier))? Thinking that a unit ( RME ADI-2) at this cost might have one built into it already, or is that wishful thinking?


Correct and the RME indeed has one built-in and it's I'd say close to Schiit's Unison, with also USB being a bit smoother sounding than the optical in. I wasn't using anything else in between as I was still getting through dacs, headphones, headphone amps.. getting the basics right


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Hellraiser86 said:


> I use the SPL Phonitor XE with it. It is the most neutral amp I came across and that’s awesome because the sound of your DAC is not changing. On top it has better separation and dynamics. The functions for Crossfeed sound awesome too. No comparison to the bad sounding one in the RME.


Pictures in studio please! I need to see that. It's like my ideal combination ADI with Phonitor.


----------



## silvahr

Hello,
Can someone please share if differences can be detected between USB and optical input? So far I only used USB and I love ADI-2.
Thank you in advance.


----------



## JKDJedi

silvahr said:


> Hello,
> Can someone please share if differences can be detected between USB and optical input? So far I only used USB and I love ADI-2.
> Thank you in advance.


Look a couple posts above you buddy


----------



## Relaxasaurus

silvahr said:


> Hello,
> Can someone please share if differences can be detected between USB and optical input? So far I only used USB and I love ADI-2.
> Thank you in advance.


I went back & forth on optical vs USB for a while because I hate that I had to manually change the input freq when switching sources. Optical does it automatically without issue but the RME's USB controller requires more hand-holding, at least on Windows 10. I heard a tiny difference between the two, with USB indeed being a tad smoother but try it for yourself and see what results you get. Optical cables are dirt cheap online (Monoprice may ship faster than Amazon at this point).


----------



## betula

If anyone was wondering about the differences between the AK4490 and 4493 chip I had a chance to compare the two RME dacs. To my ears they are sonically identical. The biggest difference is the remote control. Sure, the more buttons on the new one is helpful and makes life even easier, but to me the biggest improvement was the wider angle the new remote works in. With the old one you have to point the remote straight to the DAC, with the new one not necessarily. This is a great convenience in my personal usage scenario (which I already got used to from other Chord DAC remotes.)


----------



## JKDJedi

Relaxasaurus said:


> I went back & forth on optical vs USB for a while because I hate that I had to manually change the input freq when switching sources. Optical does it automatically without issue but the RME's USB controller requires more hand-holding, at least on Windows 10. I heard a tiny difference between the two, with USB indeed being a tad smoother but try it for yourself and see what results you get. Optical cables are dirt cheap online (Monoprice may ship faster than Amazon at this point).


Read a thread where they uninstalled RME drivers and used Windows native drivers to solve that auto frequency input thing. Worth a shot. My finger is hovering over that buy button every day ..   maybe some cheap headphones will hold me over for a week or two...


----------



## silvahr

Relaxasaurus said:


> I went back & forth on optical vs USB for a while because I hate that I had to manually cnge the input freq when switching sources. Optical does it automatically without issue but the RME's USB controller requires more hand-holding, at least on Windows 10. I heard a tiny difference between the two, with USB indeed being a tad smoother but try it for yourself and see what results you get. Optical cables are dirt cheap online (Monoprice may ship faster than Amazon at this point).



Thank you for share your opinion.
I prefer USB but I'm asking because I'm having an issue with Tidal Masters.
Using Tidal for Windows and USB, the sample rate doesn't change automatically.
But using Tidal thru Roon I have no problem. The sample rate changes automatically.
Maybe a problem with Tidal app for Windows (I'm using Windows 7).

Interesting USB being smoother than optical. With Chord Hugo 2 I found the opposite.
I believe this can prove the fantastic USB implementation in ADI-2.
Read somewhere that smoother (or less brighter) can be consequence of less digital interference.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Apr 25, 2020)

Overclocked11 said:


> So question all you ADI-2 Owners.. what amps are you pairing with it? I'm currently going direct out of mine and curious if there are any good amp synergies known.. I've looked around, but haven't seen too many clear paths. Not to say I'm not pleased with the output from ADI-2, but curious none the less.



Toob amps make the most sense to me to pair with the ADI-2. I use Garage 1217 Project Embers with Mazda 12AU7WA or Mullard CV4024 tubes.  Get the clean clear nature of the ADI-2 with the warmth, separation and holographic projection of the Ember with 12AU7WA tubes. Schiit Loki added in for 11 bands of hardware EQ... Works well with the JFET Garage 1217 Project Polaris as well, but trades some extension/nuance and separation for subbass impact and punch along with a brighter, and slightly less smooth treble.


----------



## betula

I wish, there was a simple poll option on head-fi. How many of you guys are using the 'loudness' function?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

betula said:


> I wish, there was a simple poll option on head-fi. How many of you guys are using the 'loudness' function?



I don't. I always listen to the volume I enjoy, so no need... but I did play with it and found it interesting. I agree with the manual. At lower levels, if one is listening next to their sleeping Marianne and using open back headphones, this is a nice option to have.


----------



## JKDJedi

VRacer-111 said:


> Toob amps make the most sense to me to pair with the ADI-2. I use Garage 1217 Project Embers with Mazda 12AU7WA or Mullard CV4024 tubes.  Get the clean clear nature of the ADI-2 with the warmth, separation and holographic projection of the Ember with 12AU7WA tubes. Schiit Loki added in for 11 bands of hardware EQ... Works well with the JFET Garage 1217 Project Polaris as well, but trades some extension/nuance and separation for subbass impact and punch along with a brighter, and slightly less smooth treble.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





CaptainFantastic said:


> I don't. I always listen to the volume I enjoy, so no need... but I did play with it and found it interesting. I agree with the manual. At lower levels, if one is listening next to their sleeping Marianne and using open back headphones, this is a nice option to have.


Saw in a review that you could set that automatically, at a certain (low ) volume (to your preferences) that this loudness will kick in.


----------



## radekhulan (Apr 26, 2020)

Loudness is too brutal change for my taste, and not neccessary for louder volume levels.

But I'm using *crossfeed*, for my IEMs.
First time in many years I've found it beneficial, with RME...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

JKDJedi said:


> Read a thread where they uninstalled RME drivers and used Windows native drivers to solve that auto frequency input thing. Worth a shot. My finger is hovering over that buy button every day ..   maybe some cheap headphones will hold me over for a week or two...



The problem is that's bad for latency and probably sound quality. If you remove ASIO drivers you're back to Windows audio stack.

I'm annoyed by the incorrect sample rate display and think they should fix it. My Brooklyn DAC+ works correctly with its ASIO drivers.


----------



## technobear

betula said:


> I wish, there was a simple poll option on head-fi. How many of you guys are using the 'loudness' function?


Yes, but only for the loudspeakers.


----------



## radekhulan

Anybody using with success https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/index.htm WASAPI to ASIO wrapper? This is a way to force Tidal play bit-perfect, even via WASAPI, without need to use Audirvana or Roon (I really like Tidal interface). 

However, I am getting occasional stutters, even on high-end computer. Any known fixes?


----------



## JKDJedi

gimmeheadroom said:


> The problem is that's bad for latency and probably sound quality. If you remove ASIO drivers you're back to Windows audio stack.
> 
> I'm annoyed by the incorrect sample rate display and think they should fix it. My Brooklyn DAC+ works correctly with its ASIO drivers.


I'm pretty sure asio4all drivers isn't part of the RME drivers, just uninstall the RME drivers, this thread will/ should explain it better...
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...iguration-of-rme-adi-2-dac-with-windows.4072/


----------



## gimmeheadroom

JKDJedi said:


> I'm pretty sure asio4all drivers isn't part of the RME drivers, just uninstall the RME drivers, this thread will/ should explain it better...
> https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...iguration-of-rme-adi-2-dac-with-windows.4072/



I am not talking about asio4all. I'm talking about the native RME ASIO drivers.

If you uninstall the RME drivers you're not getting the best sound quality and latency from your DAC. You're just "fixing" the crappy sample rate issue.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

radekhulan said:


> Anybody using with success https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/index.htm WASAPI to ASIO wrapper? This is a way to force Tidal play bit-perfect, even via WASAPI, without need to use Audirvana or Roon (I really like Tidal interface).
> 
> However, I am getting occasional stutters, even on high-end computer. Any known fixes?



No, I'm using a Brooklyn DAC+ for Tidal, ASIO and MQA, no roon or other crapware. Just the Tidal desktop app with passthru MQA enabled.


----------



## radekhulan (Apr 26, 2020)

Tidal (WASAPI) cannot switch frequencies on RME, does not matter if RME drivers are used or default Windows 10 ones. "VB Cable" is a hack that translates WASAPI audio to ASIO, RME auto-switches with ASIO, but this bridge introduces stutter. So, the only 100% reliable solution for Tidal and bit-perfect playback on Windows seems to be Audirvana.

Anybody more luck here?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

radekhulan said:


> Tidal (WASAPI) cannot switch frequencies, does not matter if RME drivers are used or default Windows 10 ones. "VB Cable" is a hack that translates WASAPI audio to ASIO, RME auto-switches with ASIO, but this bridge introduces stutter. So, the only 100% reliable solution for Tidal and bit-perfect playback on Windows seems to be Audirvana.
> 
> Anybody more luck here?



No, there are DACs that do bit-perfect and MQA on Windows without any third party apps. The Brooklyn DAC+ does. And if you don't need MQA, the Chord Mojo (and I'm sure all the Chord DACs) play Tidal bit-perfect without 3rd party apps but of course only software MQA from the Tidal app.


----------



## radekhulan

Well, with some A/B testing I've found I cannot hear difference between bit-perfect ASIO playback from Audirvana vs Tidal and WASAPI resample to 384kHz anyway, so ended-up using stock Tidal app.



But somewhere in my head I'm not happy with this solution :-/


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Why not set Windows to 44.1/16? I guess upsampling will just make things worse. If you turn off passthru MQA then the RME should see the same sample rate and bit depth all the time.


----------



## radekhulan (Apr 26, 2020)

Everything is not 44.1, some tracks are 48, some others (w/ MQA) 88,2 or 96.
Anyway, RME with stock Windows 10 drivers should autoswitch frequency, but it does not 
Maybe resampling to 352,8kHz would be smarter, most content is in 44.1.

I asked the question also here:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=30579


----------



## SupperTime

anyone here have the rme and lcd4z?


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Someone one here mentioned the RME not pairing well with the HD800s.  Wow were they right.  They sound awful on the RME.  99% of the time  I listen to them with tubes so not a big bummer but wow was that guy right.  New RME owner as of Saturday and am blown away by this piece of kit.  I don't ever recall hearing anything like it.  Details for days.


----------



## nightdance

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Someone one here mentioned the RME not pairing well with the HD800s.  Wow were they right.  They sound awful on the RME.  99% of the time  I listen to them with tubes so not a big bummer but wow was that guy right.  New RME owner as of Saturday and am blown away by this piece of kit.  I don't ever recall hearing anything like it.  Details for days.


Would be interested in a short comparison against the micro idsd BL as well!


----------



## JKDJedi

radekhulan said:


> Everything is not 44.1, some tracks are 48, some others (w/ MQA) 88,2 or 96.
> Anyway, RME with stock Windows 10 drivers should autoswitch frequency, but it does not
> Maybe resampling to 352,8kHz would be smarter, most content is in 44.1.
> 
> ...


Saw a vid this morning that the last firmware update fixed some windows 10 issues


----------



## SupperTime

JKDJedi said:


> Saw a vid this morning that the last firmware update fixed some windows 10 issues


which is last update. i dont see aything released recently. maybe im missing something


----------



## JKDJedi (Apr 26, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> which is last update. i dont see aything released recently. maybe im missing something


 just putting it out there... Might be a good thing to check if your on the lastest firmware.


----------



## silvahr

radekhulan said:


> Everything is not 44.1, some tracks are 48, some others (w/ MQA) 88,2 or 96.
> Anyway, RME with stock Windows 10 drivers should autoswitch frequency, but it does not
> Maybe resampling to 352,8kHz would be smarter, most content is in 44.1.
> 
> ...



I believe the best way to solve it will be using optical input.


----------



## radekhulan

There is no new driver or firmware: https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html


----------



## gimmeheadroom

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Someone one here mentioned the RME not pairing well with the HD800s.  Wow were they right.  They sound awful on the RME.  99% of the time  I listen to them with tubes so not a big bummer but wow was that guy right.  New RME owner as of Saturday and am blown away by this piece of kit.  I don't ever recall hearing anything like it.  Details for days.



I am not sure I'm the only one who said it, but I have said several times I'm not happy with Sennheiser 600s or 800s out of my RME. However, try a pair of HD 25s on some high sample rate orchestral music and your mind will be blow further


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

gimmeheadroom said:


> I am not sure I'm the only one who said it, but I have said several times I'm not happy with Sennheiser 600s or 800s out of my RME. However, try a pair of HD 25s on some high sample rate orchestral music and your mind will be blow further



I love the rme with my zmfs and aryas.  Great purchase I was just surprised how bad the hd800s sounded


----------



## Hellraiser86

WildStyle-R11 said:


> Pictures in studio please! I need to see that. It's like my ideal combination ADI with Phonitor.


Here it is 
I’ve added the Chord Hugo 2 on top of the ADI for sound comparisons when I received the Phonitor.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@Hellraiser86 Awesome picture. What are your general thoughts and observations on the ADI-2 vs Hugo 2 as stand alone units or as DACs? I've been enjoying the ADI-2 for a long time and recently ordered the Hugo 2.


----------



## Hellraiser86

CaptainFantastic said:


> @Hellraiser86 Awesome picture. What are your general thoughts and observations on the ADI-2 vs Hugo 2 as stand alone units or as DACs? I've been enjoying the ADI-2 for a long time and recently ordered the Hugo 2.


First of all, both units sound better with the Phonitor.
Without it I like the sound of the Chord more. Here are some observations:

- Imaging and dynamics are a lot better on Chords device than with the RME.
- The ADI sounds more balanced than Hugo especially in the treble.
- If you want to use sensitive IEM I would recommend the RME because Hugo hisses noticeable (tested with CA Solaris). 
- The crossfeed function on the Hugo is way more realistic and is one of the best period (Phonitor still makes it better)
- ADI‘s dynamics are the biggest limitation with the internal amp (which is still great with this price tag)


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Hellraiser86 said:


> First of all, both units sound better with the Phonitor.
> Without it I like the sound of the Chord more. Here are some observations:
> 
> - Imaging and dynamics are a lot better on Chords device than with the RME.
> ...



Thanks. Do you think the Hugo 2 would drive the Sennheiser HD-600/650/660s better than the ADI-2 on its own? Better dynamics?


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Hellraiser86 said:


> Here it is
> I’ve added the Chord Hugo 2 on top of the ADI for sound comparisons when I received the Phonitor.


Very nice. If only they would make a desk friendly version. ^^


----------



## Hellraiser86

CaptainFantastic said:


> Thanks. Do you think the Hugo 2 would drive the Sennheiser HD-600/650/660s better than the ADI-2 on its own? Better dynamics?


Funny thing. I’ve never tried my HD660S with my Hugo 2 
But I’ll change that tomorrow and let you know my impressions


----------



## SupperTime

Hellraiser86 said:


> Funny thing. I’ve never tried my HD660S with my Hugo 2
> But I’ll change that tomorrow and let you know my impressions


Which is better in resolution, clarity, transparency?


----------



## Hellraiser86

SupperTime said:


> Which is better in resolution, clarity, transparency?


The ADI has more transparency and clarity. Especially with its oversampling modes. Resolution is a bit more tricky. Hugo has definitely the advantage in most areas except the treble.


----------



## SupperTime

Hellraiser86 said:


> The ADI has more transparency and clarity. Especially with its oversampling modes. Resolution is a bit more tricky. Hugo has definitely the advantage in most areas except the treble.


What are your views on the oversampling modes. Teach me


----------



## Hellraiser86 (Apr 27, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> What are your views on the oversampling modes. Teach me


The ADI has several filters including oversampling.
I don’t have much experience with all of them. I usually used the NOS (no oversampling) and SD Sharp filters. Both sounded the best to my ears. While the NOS has the most balanced sound, the SD Sharp adds something to the high frequencies. Resulting into a more detailed sounding treble. This effect is not drastically. But noticeable (even more so with a good external amp, because the DAC implementation is better than the internal amp).
The Hugo 2 has also some different filters. In comparison differences within the ADI filters are more noticeable than with Hugo.


----------



## SupperTime

Hellraiser86 said:


> The ADI has several filters including oversampling.
> I don’t have much experience with all of them. I usually used the NOS (no oversampling) and SD Sharp filters. Both sounded the best to my ears. While the NOS has the most balanced sound, the SD Sharp adds something to the high frequencies. Resulting into a more detailed sounding treble. This effect is not drastically. But noticeable (even more so with a good external amp, because the DAC implementation is better than the internal amp).
> The Hugo 2 has also some different filters. In comparison differences within the ADI filters are more noticeable than with Hugo.


which has stronger amp section


----------



## Hellraiser86 (Apr 27, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> which has stronger amp section


The Hugo and ADI have both good sounding DACs.
My favorite for private listening is here Chords Hugo because of the better imaging. But I prefer the more balanced/detailed sound of the RME for mastering.
The ADI has a really amazing amp (especially for the price) and it deliveres the transparency of the DAC. But the dynamics aren’t that great. It sounds a bit lifeless in direct comparison with Hugo which has a lot more punch. That’s why I would say Chords amping is better.
If you connect both to a good neutral amp (which stays out of the way character wise, like Benchmarks HPA or SPL Phonitor) its more a decision of what you prefer. A more balanced sound with the ADI or better imaging with Hugo 2.


----------



## mixman

Hellraiser86 said:


> The Hugo and ADI have both good sounding DACs.
> My favorite for private listening is here Chords Hugo because of the better imaging. But I prefer the more balanced/detailed sound of the RME for mastering.
> The ADI has a really amazing amp (especially for the price) and it deliveres the transparency of the DAC. But the dynamics aren’t that great. It sounds a bit lifeless in direct comparison with Hugo which has a lot more punch. That’s why I would say Chords amping is better.
> If you connect both to a good neutral amp (which stays out of the way character wise, like Benchmarks HPA or SPL Phonitor) its more a decision of what you prefer. A more balanced sound with the ADI or better imaging with Hugo 2.


Great comparison. So I guess if I want a real improvement over my RME as a DAC, I would have to look at the TT2 or another DAC in that range?


----------



## radekhulan

RME ADI-2 DAC FS is a good match with HeadAmp Gilmore Lite Mk2  as well. Very neutral and powerful amp, yet cheap (US$ 500). Internal amp is good, excellent for IEMs, but to me HeadAmp can deliver slightly better dynamics / punch with bigger phones.


----------



## PointyFox

mixman said:


> Great comparison. So I guess if I want a real improvement over my RME as a DAC, I would have to look at the TT2 or another DAC in that range?



This list will show you what is objectively better. The ADI-2 DAC's flaws are well beyond the ability of humans to hear. 
I think this is the old version. The new ADI-2 DAC I believe has another 3 dB or so SINAD. There really isn't much better at the moment. 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ad-distortion-comparison-graph-for-dacs.4814/


----------



## WildStyle-R11

I would like to mention that if you like your headphones Then ADI is the way to go, I just love how it leaves the sound alone and just makes it smooth. Obviously you can mess around with it, which was one of the reasons I got the ADI 2, but It turns out I like my headphones. ^^ Improved the low end a lot, smoothed out the treble and cleared up the mid range, over whatever built in cheap DAC's I had in my AMP's.


----------



## Hellraiser86

mixman said:


> Great comparison. So I guess if I want a real improvement over my RME as a DAC, I would have to look at the TT2 or another DAC in that range?


If you are up to really big improvements... To be honest DACs like TT2, Bartock or way more expensive ones aren’t that enormously better. Of course they will sound better in most ways. But only to a certain point. For some this improvement is exactly what they are looking for all the time. For others it’s noticeable but not worth the price, because you spend 5x (and even more) the money for the last little bit.
If I were you I would go for a mscaled TT2 for a more obvious jump. But still... The differences aren’t that much obvious like (for example) jumping from a 200€ to a 1500€ DAC. Even the most mastering engineers work with DACs within the 1500-3000€ range. For example: Howie Weinberg relies on Myteks Brooklyn (DAC and ADC)


----------



## betula

Hellraiser86 said:


> If you are up to really big improvements... To be honest DACs like TT2, Bartock or way more expensive ones aren’t that enormously better. Of course they will sound better in most ways. But only to a certain point. For some this improvement is exactly what they are looking for all the time. For others it’s noticeable but not worth the price, because you spend 5x (and even more) the money for the last little bit.
> If I were you I would go for a mscaled TT2 for a more obvious jump. But still... The differences aren’t that much obvious like (for example) jumping from a 200€ to a 1500€ DAC. Even the most mastering engineers work with DACs within the 1500-3000€ range. For example: Howie Weinberg relies on Myteks Brooklyn (DAC and ADC)


In general this is true, but it is also worth mentioning that those differences become more obvious with TOTL headphones. Also, the refinement of our hearing differs more than most think.


----------



## PointyFox

ADI-2 DAC FS (old version) measurements: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-rme-adi-2-dac-and-headphone-amp.7546/


----------



## mixman

Hellraiser86 said:


> If you are up to really big improvements... To be honest DACs like TT2, Bartock or way more expensive ones aren’t that enormously better. Of course they will sound better in most ways. But only to a certain point. For some this improvement is exactly what they are looking for all the time. For others it’s noticeable but not worth the price, because you spend 5x (and even more) the money for the last little bit.
> If I were you I would go for a mscaled TT2 for a more obvious jump. But still... The differences aren’t that much obvious like (for example) jumping from a 200€ to a 1500€ DAC. Even the most mastering engineers work with DACs within the 1500-3000€ range. For example: Howie Weinberg relies on Myteks Brooklyn (DAC and ADC)



I agree. I heard the TT2/Mscaler. While I thought it was great, I really didn’t feel it that outstanding considering the price jump. I heard refinement more that a complete change in the SQ.


----------



## LONZO

Mutsu said:


> In a stereo speaker setup what power amp are ADI-2 users using (if using a power amp)?
> 
> I just got an XTZ Edge A2 300 amp to try out with my ADI-2 versus my Aura Groove integrated (has inbuilt dac) and the sound is so so different I'm not sure if I like it or not yet (I really want to).
> 
> ...


What source are you using for music content? It makes a huge difference! And unless your a purist there are so many options to "tailor" your sound with the RME you can't go wrong.


----------



## c0rp1

Hey everyone,
a friend asked me yesterday if an ADI 2 DAC can be used in his system as a pre-amplifier only. I'm not good with connection based questions, so decided to ask here instead 
His system is - Bosedorfer speakers, tube single ended amplifier, tube CD and he wants to use it as a pre-amplifier for his CD and streamer from Cambridge audio ... something like that.
Thanks in advance!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

No, there is no analog-in.


----------



## Slaphead

c0rp1 said:


> Hey everyone,
> a friend asked me yesterday if an ADI 2 DAC can be used in his system as a pre-amplifier only. I'm not good with connection based questions, so decided to ask here instead
> His system is - Bosedorfer speakers, tube single ended amplifier, tube CD and he wants to use it as a pre-amplifier for his CD and streamer from Cambridge audio ... something like that.
> Thanks in advance!





gimmeheadroom said:


> No, there is no analog-in.



Ok, this depends. Yes the RME ADI 2 DAC can be used as a pre-amplifier - in fact I use it as a pre-amp, but this only works for digital sources such as optical TOSLINK, coaxial S/PDIF, or USB. It will not work for analog sources as @gimmeheadroom rightly stated.

So if your friend is only interested in digital inputs to the ADI 2 then everything is cool. And by digital I don't mean an ancient CD-Player with RCA analog outputs - that won't work unless it has either TOSLINK or S/PDIF outputs.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Slaphead said:


> Ok, this depends. Yes the RME ADI 2 DAC can be used as a pre-amplifier - in fact I use it as a pre-amp, but this only works for digital sources such as optical TOSLINK, coaxial S/PDIF, or USB. It will not work for analog sources as @gimmeheadroom rightly stated.
> 
> So if your friend is only interested in digital inputs to the ADI 2 then everything is cool. And by digital I don't mean an ancient CD-Player with RCA analog outputs - that won't work unless it has either TOSLINK or S/PDIF outputs.



Wait, what? According to that definition every DAC is a preamp


----------



## Simple Man

Slaphead said:


> .... by digital I don't mean an ancient CD-Player with RCA analog outputs - that won't work unless it has either TOSLINK or S/PDIF outputs.



but.......with an ancient Denon DVD2900 a great player at the time for cd’s but passing the electronics inside of it.
I think this will work HI-END?


----------



## Slaphead

gimmeheadroom said:


> Wait, what? According to that definition every DAC is a preamp



Nope. A DAC, as it originally was at least, was something you fed a digital signal, and then it would output an analog signal via RCA, DIN, or maybe XLR into a pre-amp at line level. There were no controls, other than an on/off button, and maybe a filter switch.

The ADI 2 DAC has a volume control, not to mention EQ, and is capable of being connected to a power amp and/or powered speakers. That makes it a fully paid up member of the pre-amp club, albeit only for digital sources. It is however possible to operate the RME in a pure DAC mode which will bypass those controls.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

That's really stretching the definition of preamp into the digital realm. I'm not sure it goes that far but I see where you're coming from.


----------



## Progisus

My ADI-2 is arriving today. It will replace my Hugo2 on the desktop. The H2 will become part of my mobile rig. I hope the ADI2 scales well with Roon and HQPlayer. I love Chord dacs but it can become cult like at times.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

It's a superb DAC and very flexible. Not sure what you mean about scaling, though.

I love the RME but the amp isn't always the best choice for certain headphones. Other than that, killer for the price.

BTW RME is also a cult


----------



## betula

gimmeheadroom said:


> It's a superb DAC and very flexible. Not sure what you mean about scaling, though.
> 
> I love the RME but the amp isn't always the best choice for certain headphones. Other than that, killer for the price.
> 
> BTW RME is also a cult


This whole hobby is a cult. With slightly different sub-cults. The main characteristics are the same everywhere.


----------



## Progisus

gimmeheadroom said:


> It's a superb DAC and very flexible. Not sure what you mean about scaling, though.
> 
> I love the RME but the amp isn't always the best choice for certain headphones. Other than that, killer for the price.
> 
> BTW RME is also a cult


Although I have Utopia and HD800s, most listening will be sone with iem’s due to its proposed location.

Scaling... I hope it works well with upscaling from HQPlayer to 768k. I had an Mscaler for awhile but switched to HQP for several reasons.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Progisus said:


> Although I have Utopia and HD800s, most listening will be sone with iem’s due to its proposed location.
> 
> Scaling... I hope it works well with upscaling from HQPlayer to 768k. I had an Mscaler for awhile but switched to HQP for several reasons.



I don't know about the Utopias. I am not happy with the way it drives my Sennheiser 600s or 800s so I use an external amp.

As far as upscaling goes that feels fraudulent to me. No offense. The RME should handle the bit rate fine although some of the great features are disabled at higher bitrates due to limitations in DSP power.


----------



## Overclocked11

Progisus said:


> Scaling... I hope it works well with upscaling from HQPlayer to 768k. I had an Mscaler for awhile but switched to HQP for several reasons.



Works great with HQPlayer to 768. No issues whatsoever. Grats on the new acquisition!


----------



## ct303

I think the Sennheiser 800s match well with the RME, but I do wind up using it more with IEMs


----------



## Progisus

A few hours in. I’ve been through all my phones and iem’s. It drives even the HD650 well but it really shines with the iem’s. First impression (compared to TT and H2) is smoother treble but not quite as warm sounding. I am feeding from Antipodes EX by usb. I expected a thinner sound than the chords but I am pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Simple Man

Congrats with the RME, high on my list as well but I wonder how it is compared with the Hugo and specially with a Violectric V850?
One of these will probably be my next step.


----------



## InstantSilence

Rme vs the Hugo 2....

Which does the  xfade better?


----------



## Progisus

I’m not a xfade fan and never used it onthe H2. I can say this... listening to DSD256 and HD800s the RME wipes Chord‘s H2 decimation implementation.


----------



## InstantSilence

Progisus said:


> I’m not a xfade fan and never used it onthe H2. I can say this... listening to DSD256 and HD800s the RME wipes Chord‘s H2 decimation implementation.


What is decimation implementation?


----------



## Progisus

Chord decimates dsd to pcm on all dacs except Dave. So not really dsd implementation.


----------



## InstantSilence

oh, i don't care about that at all.  wav is good enough for me


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I think as a DAC, unless you need MQA, the RME is hard to beat. I think you need a lot of carefully chosen


InstantSilence said:


> What is decimation implementation?



Talking 'bout my decimation
Talking 'bout my decimation
My decimation, bebe...


----------



## technobear

InstantSilence said:


> Rme vs the Hugo 2....
> 
> Which does the  xfade better?


Crossfade is what DJ's do.

You are referring to Crossfeed which is something quite different.


----------



## Simple Man

I don’t mind crossfading, decimation, dsd etc. Not even about equalization, I just want to enjoy the music in a very good quality. 
wiol the difference between the RME, Hugo2 and the V850 really be easy to notice?


----------



## Progisus

Nope... 2 minutes in it’s all about the music


----------



## betula

Simple Man said:


> I don’t mind crossfading, decimation, dsd etc. Not even about equalization, I just want to enjoy the music in a very good quality.
> wiol the difference between the RME, Hugo2 and the V850 really be easy to notice?


For some it is easier, for some it is more difficult. You cannot really go wrong with any of these three DACs.


----------



## Focux (May 7, 2020)

this is a tough conundrum:
ADI 2, Hugo 2 or Qutest + THX789


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Focux said:


> this is a tough conundrum:
> ADI 2 + THX789
> Hugo 2 + THX789



Isn't the THX789 to sterile to pair with the 650 and Aeolus?


----------



## Focux

CaptainFantastic said:


> Isn't the THX789 to sterile to pair with the 650 and Aeolus?



I have a tube currently for those but find it too thick anyway

the THX would be for planars (prob Ananda)


----------



## betula

Focux said:


> this is a tough conundrum:
> ADI 2, Hugo 2 or Qutest + THX789


For desktop use only I would narrow it down to ADI2 and Qutest. Qutest is essentially the same DAC as the Hugo2 without a battery and headphone out. If you don't need portability, no need to pay the extra for H2.
I used to own the Qutest with some SS amps, now I have got the RME ADI2 and the THX-789 on order. 

After previously owning the Mojo, Hugo2, Qutest, TT2 and now the RME I can say that the RME is more of a studio reference sound. More neutral, still very clean, detailed and dynamic. Chord in general sounds a bit more 'romantic', more lifelike. Still very detailed, but a smoother and more comfortable sound. A little warmer too, but without loosing out on any details. The RME is punchier and even as a Chord believer I would risk saying it is more fun with modern music, a bit more forward. Between the RME and the Qutest/H2 it really comes down to what you are looking for: a smoother, more lifelike and slightly more engaging sound, or a fun, clean, dynamic and confident performance. Two great horses from different stables.


----------



## Triodemode

For $700 less than a Cutest and half the price of a Hugo2, The RME is an absolute bargain by comparison at this level of sound quality IMO.


----------



## Focux

betula said:


> For desktop use only I would narrow it down to ADI2 and Qutest. Qutest is essentially the same DAC as the Hugo2 without a battery and headphone out. If you don't need portability, no need to pay the extra for H2.
> I used to own the Qutest with some SS amps, now I have got the RME ADI2 and the THX-789 on order.
> 
> After previously owning the Mojo, Hugo2, Qutest, TT2 and now the RME I can say that the RME is more of a studio reference sound. More neutral, still very clean, detailed and dynamic. Chord in general sounds a bit more 'romantic', more lifelike. Still very detailed, but a smoother and more comfortable sound. A little warmer too, but without loosing out on any details. The RME is punchier and even as a Chord believer I would risk saying it is more fun with modern music, a bit more forward. Between the RME and the Qutest/H2 it really comes down to what you are looking for: a smoother, more lifelike and slightly more engaging sound, or a fun, clean, dynamic and confident performance. Two great horses from different stables.



Thank you very much for sharing, by any chance have u also tried the Benchmark DAC3?


----------



## betula

Triodemode said:


> For $700 less than a Cutest and half the price of a Hugo2, The RME is an absolute bargain by comparison at this level of sound quality IMO.


In the UK the difference is less. £1190 for Qutest and £850 for the RME. And you can get the Qutest secondhand for £900. (RME secondhand for £750.)
But I agree, the RME is absolutely insane value for money. 


Focux said:


> Thank you very much for sharing, by any chance have u also tried the Benchmark DAC3?


Unfortunately I haven't.


----------



## Focux (May 7, 2020)

betula said:


> In the UK the difference is less. £1190 for Qutest and £850 for the RME. And you can get the Qutest secondhand for £900. (RME secondhand for £750.)
> But I agree, the RME is absolutely insane value for money.
> 
> Unfortunately I haven't.



Where I am, there’s a used Qutest asking £800 but no box nothing just a USB cable 

btw, I recall that you love the Empyrean.The first time I heard it, I absolutely loved it but felt that it could be too warm or lush (demo’ed on TT2)

with a RME or say even Mojo + THX789, would the empyrean be less warm/thick?


----------



## betula

Focux said:


> Where I am, there’s a used Qutest asking £800 but no box nothing just a USB cable
> 
> btw, I recall that you love the Empyrean.The first time I heard it, I absolutely loved it but felt that it could be too warm or lush (demo’ed on TT2)
> 
> with a RME or say even Mojo + THX789, would the empyrean be less warm/thick?


If you want to avoid the Empyrean to sound too warm and thick (which is a good approach) I think all the combos you mentioned should be fine. IMO the Empyrean is great out of the TT2, and it would probably benefit a lot from the RME's clarity and punch. Mojo? I love the Mojo for what it is (unbeatable portable sound for the price) but it is not really on RME or TT2 level.


----------



## Focux

betula said:


> If you want to avoid the Empyrean to sound too warm and thick (which is a good approach) I think all the combos you mentioned should be fine. IMO the Empyrean is great out of the TT2, and it would probably benefit a lot from the RME's clarity and punch. Mojo? I love the Mojo for what it is (unbeatable portable sound for the price) but it is not really on RME or TT2 level.



I recall the time I was looking to demo the Verite, spent awhile w VO and VC then I noticed the empyrean and thought oh well might as well since it’s not been demo-ed previously

And oh wow..sure it’s not as fast nor detailed as I’d liked (Diana Phi fastest and most detailed headphone I ever heard) but it sounded so enjoyable, albeit too warm for some genres as per my own listening preferences that is


----------



## betula

Focux said:


> I recall the time I was looking to demo the Verite, spent awhile w VO and VC then I noticed the empyrean and thought oh well might as well since it’s not been demo-ed previously
> 
> And oh wow..sure it’s not as fast nor detailed as I’d liked (Diana Phi fastest and most detailed headphone I ever heard) but it sounded so enjoyable, albeit too warm for some genres as per my own listening preferences that is


True. The Empyrean is super fun, but not the epitome of neutrality in the price range. Very spacious, natural and engaging, but not the champion of technicalities amongst other (more expensive) flagship headphones. But I think the price is reflecting this pretty well. 
I enjoyed the Empyrean more than the LCD4 or HE1000V2 or Verite open or HD800S or Utopia, but all of this comes down to personal preference.


----------



## Feyded1020

I just received my RME ADI-2 today, and I am blown away by this quality and sound, as well as the incredibly powerful amp.

I am upgrading from an iFi micro iDSD Black Label, and have thoroughly loved that product for its versatility, but preferred something more permanent for home. I ended up ordering a SMSL SP200 before I jumped on this RME, and currently debating if I should send the SP200 back, as it hasnt arrived yet. I am having a hard time finding a need for it now with the RME providing even more power than my black label could(without it getting hot, as on turbo mode its not advised to use it permanently).

Overall though I can say I am a believer in the massive praise this thing has seen, and LOVE the amount of tinkering you can do on hardware. My only complaint now is my DT1990's need to show up(this pandemic messed up Beyers production line).


----------



## betula

I have just had a listening session with a fellow audio enthusiast. RME-ADI2, Hugo TT, Hugo TT2, LCD2C, LCD3, Arya and Susvara. We both agreed that the RME is phenomenal value for money and it was actually driving the Susvara surprisingly well.


----------



## makan

betula said:


> I have just had a listening session with a fellow audio enthusiast. RME-ADI2, Hugo TT, Hugo TT2, LCD2C, LCD3, Arya and Susvara. We both agreed that the RME is phenomenal value for money and it was actually driving the Susvara surprisingly well.


How did it compare to the TT and TT2?


----------



## betula

makan said:


> How did it compare to the TT and TT2?


Both the TT and TT2 are better in my opinion, but the RME comes almost embarrassingly close. As I said in one of my previous comments recently the Chord sound is a bit more lifelike and smoother. The RME is still super clean though and dynamic. The TT2 is better in resolving capabilities and spaciousness than the TT. All three are great DACs. Whether the difference is worth your money can only be your call. More details in another post.


----------



## makan

betula said:


> Both the TT and TT2 are better in my opinion, but the RME comes almost embarrassingly close. As I said in one of my previous comments recently the Chord sound is a bit more lifelike and smoother. The RME is still super clean though and dynamic. The TT2 is better in resolving capabilities and spaciousness than the TT. All three are great DACs. Whether the difference is worth your money can only be your call. More details in another post.


Thanks. I have that darn itch for the TT2, but it would be a costly remedy to the itch.


----------



## NehPets

InstantSilence said:


> Rme vs the Hugo 2....
> 
> Which does the  xfade better?


I too am interested in this comparison.
Having replicated the RME crossfeed settings using Neutron, even with the 700Hz, -3dB setting, the effect is modest, with the image moving more front and centre, but still very much inside the head. There also seems to be a slight skewing with binaural recordings, but maybe that's to be expected. How does the Hugo 2's crossfeed image differ from that of the RME, and is it any more out-of-head?


----------



## arielext

Isn't the goal of crossfeed to reduce listening fatigue by crossfeeding up to certain frequencies in the other channel, like a speaker would do. Which results in a slightly more narrow stereo image but with less strain on each ear?


----------



## InstantSilence

arielext said:


> Isn't the goal of crossfeed to reduce listening fatigue by crossfeeding up to certain frequencies in the other channel, like a speaker would do. Which results in a slightly more narrow stereo image but with less strain on each ear?


That sure is the effect of purpose, but the question is which device does it better


----------



## betula

arielext said:


> Isn't the goal of crossfeed to reduce listening fatigue by crossfeeding up to certain frequencies in the other channel, like a speaker would do. Which results in a slightly more narrow stereo image but with less strain on each ear?


I don't think the purpose of crossfeed is to reduce listening fatigue. It is simply an effect to ease the radical stereo separation of headphones and make the sound more like speakers in a room by mixing the the two channels as it is mixed by nature when you are listening to speakers.
To my personal experience crossfeed does narrow down the soundstage a bit, but at the same time it sounds much more natural and lifelike. I used crossfeed level 2 on my TT2 and I stick with level 2 crossfeed on my RME ADI2 as well. IMO Chord crossfeed implementation is better, the effect comes across slightly more natural and more believable. That said the RME crossfeed to me is good enough not to miss the Chord version of it.


----------



## InstantSilence

betula said:


> I don't think the purpose of crossfeed is to reduce listening fatigue. It is simply an effect to ease the radical stereo separation of headphones and make the sound more like speakers in a room by mixing the the two channels as it is mixed by nature when you are listening to speakers.
> To my personal experience crossfeed does narrow down the soundstage a bit, but at the same time it sounds much more natural and lifelike. I used crossfeed level 2 on my TT2 and I stick with level 2 crossfeed on my RME ADI2 as well. IMO Chord crossfeed implementation is better, the effect comes across slightly more natural and more believable. That said the RME crossfeed to me is good enough not to miss the Chord version of it.



I fantasize about tt2. Maybe one day a used model can be 3k and I can reach that. 

But is the resolution and clarity significantly better and instantly observed as being superior to the rme adi-2 dac 
?


----------



## betula

InstantSilence said:


> I fantasize about tt2. Maybe one day a used model can be 3k and I can reach that.
> 
> But is the resolution and clarity significantly better and instantly observed as being superior to the rme adi-2 dac
> ?


Yes, it is obviously better. But not four times better.


----------



## InstantSilence

betula said:


> Yes, it is obviously better. But not four times better.


Sorry to derail a little but while I have your experienced attention.... Is tt2 much better in clarity and resolution va the Hugo 2? Is it 2x better?


----------



## betula

InstantSilence said:


> Sorry to derail a little but while I have your experienced attention.... Is tt2 much better in clarity and resolution va the Hugo 2? Is it 2x better?


It is a different experience. Hugo 2 if you listen the first time strikes you with all those details, soundstage and instrument placement. TT2 sounds even more natural and more lifelike with an even bigger soundstage and more natural details. A little bit like arriving from a small studio stage to a real open air stage.


----------



## InstantSilence

betula said:


> It is a different experience. Hugo 2 if you listen the first time strikes you with all those details, soundstage and instrument placement. TT2 sounds even more natural and more lifelike with an even bigger soundstage and more natural details. A little bit like arriving from a small studio stage to a real open air stage.


I wonder why even bother with the rme in your position? Is it the eq needs?


----------



## betula (May 10, 2020)

InstantSilence said:


> I wonder why even bother with the rme in your position? Is it the eq needs?


No, it is about life management and re-prioritising my financial goals.


----------



## mixman

betula said:


> No, it is about life management and re-prioritising my financial goals. Secondly, a 2K system with my music and usage scenario is actually fulfilling enough. I don't really need to spend 3-4K more to achieve what I want from my audio system. Keep in mind, this is an extremely personal hobby. Needs and wants are very different and they change by hour.


I am with you on this. I heard the TT2 and fell in love with it, but even with that I couldn't justify the expenditure of three times as much over my current system, especially in these difficult times of financial instability.


----------



## darmccombs (May 13, 2020)

I have the RME ADI-2 and Sony MDR-Z1R.  I actually have 2 of the RME, one in my home system and 1 for the office.  I like the DAC and EQ in the RME.  Anyway, my question is for the  RME ADI-2 + Sony MDR-Z1R combo.

I'd like to hear a little more slam/punch/attach from this combo.  Although the Z1R are supposed to be easy to drive, I am thinking that adding an Amp to the mix will help with the slam/punch/attack.

I see folks mention the THX789, but in reading the feedback, some say it helps a tiny bit and others say the 789 helps a noticeable amount.  I'd like to be sure if I spend some $$$ that I really see some improvement.  So what would folks consider the next step up from the THX 789?  *I need to keep the amp cost under $1000 new or used.  Do you have any suggestions?*


----------



## betula

darmccombs said:


> I have the RME ADI-2 and Sony MDR-Z1R.  I actually have 2 of the RME, one in my home system and 1 for the office.  I like the DAC and EQ in the RME.  Anyway, my question is for the  RME ADI-2 + Sony MDR-Z1R combo.
> 
> I'd like to hear a little more slam/punch/attach from this combo.  Although the Z1R are supposed to be easy to drive, I am thinking that adding an Amp to the mix will help with the slam/punch/attack.
> 
> I see folks mention the THX789, but in reading the feadback, some say it helps a tiny bit and others say the 789 helps a noticeable amount.  I'd like to be sure if I spend some $$$ that I really see some improvement.  So what would folks consider the next step up from the THX 789?  I need to keep the amp cost under $1000 new or used.  Do you have any suggestions?


I think the RME can drive your Z1R pretty well. I have recently impulse bought the 789 to see if it brings any improvements with my LCD2C/LCD-X headphones connected to the RME (balanced). I have to say, all it brought is distortion and sound degradation. This is not to bring down the 789 performance, it is an absolutely phenomenal amp for the price. (!) 
But you don't need the 789 if you already have the RME with efficient headphones. This is all from SE out though, I am yet to receive my balanced headphones cables which might change my opinion, although I am quite sceptical about that after this SE experience.


----------



## mixman

darmccombs said:


> I have the RME ADI-2 and Sony MDR-Z1R.  I actually have 2 of the RME, one in my home system and 1 for the office.  I like the DAC and EQ in the RME.  Anyway, my question is for the  RME ADI-2 + Sony MDR-Z1R combo.
> 
> I'd like to hear a little more slam/punch/attach from this combo.  Although the Z1R are supposed to be easy to drive, I am thinking that adding an Amp to the mix will help with the slam/punch/attack.
> 
> I see folks mention the THX789, but in reading the feedback, some say it helps a tiny bit and others say the 789 helps a noticeable amount.  I'd like to be sure if I spend some $$$ that I really see some improvement.  So what would folks consider the next step up from the THX 789?  I need to keep the amp cost under $1000 new or used.  Do you have any suggestions?


I have had that combo for a while now. I do think the THX is an improvement over the amp in the RME, especially for air, soundstage and separation. You just have to balance the output of the RME just right with that of the THX or you will get the added distortion Betula is referring to. This is for all of my headphones too.


----------



## betula (May 14, 2020)

mixman said:


> I have had that combo for a while now. I do think the THX is an improvement over the amp in the RME, especially for air, soundstage and separation. You just have to balance the output of the RME just right with that of the THX or you will get the added distortion Betula is referring to. This is for all of my headphones too.


What do you exactly mean by 'balancing the output on the RME'?

Edit: I think I got it now. You think the balanced headphone out will sound much superior to the SE out. As soon as I have received my balanced headphone cable I will report back. Hopefully in 4-5 days.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

mixman said:


> I have had that combo for a while now. I do think the THX is an improvement over the amp in the RME, especially for air, soundstage and separation. You just have to balance the output of the RME just right with that of the THX or you will get the added distortion Betula is referring to. This is for all of my headphones too.



How do you balance the output of the RME just right with the amp? Is there a recommended Line Out volume for the RME when running as a DAC only?


----------



## mixman

betula said:


> What do you exactly mean by 'balancing the output on the RME' my friend?





CaptainFantastic said:


> How do you balance the output of the RME just right with the amp? Is there a recommended Line Out volume for the RME when running as a DAC only?


What you do is keep the RME to about -15 to -24 dB of output any more seems to overload the THX. Also keep the THX in middle gain position depending on headphone. You get more air and less distortion that way. In general I would say just play with the output on the RME to balance out your sound. Also watch the meters too, just don’t crank it up.


----------



## technobear

darmccombs said:


> I'd like to hear a little more slam/punch/attach from this combo.  Although the Z1R are supposed to be easy to drive, I am thinking that adding an Amp to the mix will help with the slam/punch/attack.



Use the 'SD Sharp' filter and add a little bass boost centred around 150 Hz.


----------



## betula

mixman said:


> What you do is keep the RME to about -15 to -24 dB of output any more seems to overload the THX. Also keep the THX in middle gain position depending on headphone. You get more air and less distortion that way. In general I would say just play with the output on the RME to balance out your sound. Also watch the meters too, just don’t crank it up.


THX SE out connected to RME via balanced only brings distortion versus RME SE out only. In a few days I will check back with a balanced headphone cable to see if it makes any difference.


----------



## mixman

betula said:


> THX SE out connected to RME via balanced only brings distortion versus RME SE out only. In a few days I will check back with a balanced headphone cable to see if it makes any difference.


I am only using balanced all the way through. But as far as the THX goes I inderstand it is an SE only amp throughout with a balanced connection with extra power.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

mixman said:


> What you do is keep the RME to about -15 to -24 dB of output any more seems to overload the THX. Also keep the THX in middle gain position depending on headphone. You get more air and less distortion that way. In general I would say just play with the output on the RME to balance out your sound. Also watch the meters too, just don’t crank it up.


Thanks, I will be using it with a tube amp, the Woo Audio WA3, so this is good to know.


----------



## silvahr

betula said:


> THX SE out connected to RME via balanced only brings distortion versus RME SE out only. In a few days I will check back with a balanced headphone cable to see if it makes any difference.



I’m eager to read your impressions although I believe you won’t change your idea.


----------



## betula (May 14, 2020)

silvahr said:


> I’m eager to read your impressions although I believe you won’t change your idea.


I have a feeling I won't, yet I am curious enough to spend £400 on this experiment. (with cables)

I think if you want a significantly better amp performance you need to spend over 1K. Also, amps most of the time just satisfy your preferred sound coloration. After trying many combos I think I prefer a clear, detailed and neutral sound presentation and prefer to hear the tuning of the headphone instead.


----------



## silvahr

betula said:


> I have a feeling I won't, yet I am curious enough to spend £400 on this experiment. (£300 THX 789, £40 balanced interconnect cables, £90 balanced headphone cables)
> 
> I think if you want a significantly better amp performance you need to spend over 1K. Also, amps most of the time just satisfy your preferred sound coloration. After trying many combos I think I prefer a clear, detailed and neutral sound presentation and prefer to hear the tuning of the headphone instead.



Just like me. I had Violectric V100 twice (bought - sold - regret - bought another one - sold and I’m ok with that). When I had Chord Hugo 2 I tried using V100 with it since was (is) an amplifier I really like.
The only thing I got was a high level of distortion. And the V100 is a good amplifier like all Lake People amplifiers.
I was using Aeon Flow Open that time.
With good DAC/Amp like ADI-2 you need great amplifiers to get better sound quality. And great amplifiers aren’t cheap.


----------



## betula

silvahr said:


> Just like me. I had Violectric V100 twice (bought - sold - regret - bought another one - sold and I’m ok with that). When I had Chord Hugo 2 I tried using V100 with it since was (is) an amplifier I really like.
> The only thing I got was a high level of distortion. And the V100 is a good amplifier like all Lake People amplifiers.
> I was using Aeon Flow Open that time.
> With good DAC/Amp like ADI-2 you need great amplifiers to get better sound quality. And great amplifiers aren’t cheap.


Correct. To my experience if you want 'better' sound out of the RME you need at least 2K+ amps.


----------



## silvahr

Now I have ADI-2 and Audeze LCD-2c and I really don’t need any amplifier. They have great synergy.


----------



## betula

silvahr said:


> Now I have ADI-2 and Audeze LCD-2c and I really don’t need any amplifier. They have great synergy.


You don't need an amplifier. This combo is one of the best value for money. Audio doesn't get much better than this, unless you have a few more thousands to spend.


----------



## silvahr

betula said:


> You don't need an amplifier. This combo is one of the best value for money. Audio doesn't get much better than this, unless you have a few more thousands to spend.



100% with you!! I stopped thinking in something more fancy like Chord TT2. I even stopped thinking in Chord Hugo 2 again because I really liked it.
ADI-2 does a fantastic job with Audeze and then I plug my Xelento and the fantastic experience remains without hiss and other things.
ADI-2 is without a question a jack of all trades and master of all.


----------



## mixman

betula said:


> Correct. To my experience if you want 'better' sound out of the RME you need at least 2K+ amps.


The problem with the RME amp is it has a flat presentation with not much air and separation between instruments. Tonally it is a good amp. It also has good detail, not great.


----------



## betula (May 14, 2020)

silvahr said:


> 100% with you!! I stopped thinking in something more fancy like Chord TT2. I even stopped thinking in Chord Hugo 2 again because I really liked it.
> ADI-2 does a fantastic job with Audeze and then I plug my Xelento and the fantastic experience remains without hiss and other things.
> ADI-2 is without a question a jack of all trades and master of all.


True. Yes, the Hugo2 or even the TT2 offer a more lifelike experience, but on what price? The RME is extremely detailed, offering an unmatched insight to the music at this price range with awesome details. RME-ADI2 is a killer for its price.


----------



## darmccombs

mixman said:


> The problem with the RME amp is it has a flat presentation with not much air and separation between instruments. Tonally it is a good amp. It also has good detail, not great.


Exactly.   That is what I'm trying to improve with an external amp priced at less than $1000.

I'm hoping to get some thoughts on this, from folks *with experience with other amps*.

No offense Betula, but if you aren't setting the RME output correctly, and are overloading the external amp, its hard to take your comparisons seriously.  Saying you need to spend $2k, with out mentioning what amps you've tried - with correct setup - comes off as fanboy-ish).  I have 2 of these RME, so I don't need to be sold on the RME. I do appreciate your enthusiasm though!!!


----------



## InstantSilence

darmccombs said:


> Exactly.   That is what I'm trying to improve with an external amp priced at less than $1000.
> 
> I'm hoping to get some thoughts on this, from folks *with experience with other amps*.
> 
> No offense Betula, but if you aren't setting the RME output correctly, and are overloading the external amp, its hard to take your comparisons seriously.  Saying you need to spend $2k, with out mentioning what amps you've tried - with correct setup - comes off as fanboy-ish).  I have 2 of these RME, so I don't need to be sold on the RME. I do appreciate your enthusiasm though!!!


folks have mentioned the phonitor to be  a good upgrade to amp for 1k used...


----------



## darmccombs

InstantSilence said:


> folks have mentioned the phonitor to be  a good upgrade to amp for 1k used...


Thanks for the suggestion.  I have seen the Phonitor 2 for $1000 used.  I've heard folks praise the X and XE with the RME.  I hope someone with a Phonitor 2 can chime in, as this could work out.


----------



## darmccombs

mixman said:


> I have had that combo for a while now. I do think the THX is an improvement over the amp in the RME, especially for air, soundstage and separation. You just have to balance the output of the RME just right with that of the THX or you will get the added distortion Betula is referring to. This is for all of my headphones too.


Thanks for the feedback on the 789.


----------



## InstantSilence

darmccombs said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.  I have seen the Phonitor 2 for $1000 used.  I've heard folks praise the X and XE with the RME.  I hope someone with a Phonitor 2 can chime in, as this could work out.


i guess its the *2*,  whichever one is bulky and doesnt have a dac.


----------



## tret

I just picked up the ADI-2 DAC FS this week and have been really pleased with how they've opened up my HD6xx headphones. Prior to this I've been listening to them driven by my Sony WM1A Walkman or Chord Mojo, they've never sounded this dynamic, this tight. Very happy so far, hoping to demo Empyrean here shortly and very much looking forward to it.


----------



## acguitar84

darmccombs said:


> I have the RME ADI-2 and Sony MDR-Z1R.  I actually have 2 of the RME, one in my home system and 1 for the office.  I like the DAC and EQ in the RME.  Anyway, my question is for the  RME ADI-2 + Sony MDR-Z1R combo.
> 
> I'd like to hear a little more slam/punch/attach from this combo.  Although the Z1R are supposed to be easy to drive, I am thinking that adding an Amp to the mix will help with the slam/punch/attack.
> 
> I see folks mention the THX789, but in reading the feedback, some say it helps a tiny bit and others say the 789 helps a noticeable amount.  I'd like to be sure if I spend some $$$ that I really see some improvement.  So what would folks consider the next step up from the THX 789?  *I need to keep the amp cost under $1000 new or used.  Do you have any suggestions?*


I've been using a Schiit Jotunheim with my RME and it's been sounding good. I have a Headamp gsx mini on order now, and can't wait to hear what it brings to the table along with the RME. But it's more than a 1000 though unfortunately. I looked into the Schiit Mjolnir 2 as well, but decided to pony up the extra cash for the mini. Don't want to mess with tubes right now.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Audio gear, especially pro audio gear, is all designed on standard input and output levels.

The RME output level is indeed adjustable for consumer or pro audio but I can't remember if it is only RCA or also XLR. Check the manual. The pro settings will overdrive consumer hardware.

I am absolutely not saying that running an RME into a THX789 is a good idea.


----------



## technobear

I see the output levels of the ADI-2 DAC are still causing confusion.

If you are connecting to a power amp then you can set the ADI-2 DAC to AUTO REF LEVEL = ON and use the ADI-2 DAC volume control.

If you are connecting to a pre-amp or integrated amp which has it's own volume control, it is a bit more subtle.

For single ended use, you will want the ADI-2 DAC to output up to 2 Volts. Much higher and you may overload the input circuits of the connected amp and, as some of you have discovered, this causes distortion.

Firstly, set AUTO REF LEVEL = OFF. It's in the I/O menu. Then set REF LEVEL = 7dBu (1.73V). Then turn the VOLUME to 0dB.

The balanced output is 6dBu higher (i.e. double) than the single ended output.

In summary, the REF LEVEL settings are as follows:

Single Ended:

  -5 dBu = 0.44V
   1 dBu = 0.87V
   7 dBu = 1.73V
 13 dBu = 3.46V

Balanced:

  -5dBu <> +1 dBu =  0.87V
   1 dBu <>   7 dBu = 1.73V
   7 dBu <> 13 dBu = 3.46V
 13 dBu <> 19 dBu = 6.90V

There's a handy calculator here: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm


----------



## Nostoi

darmccombs said:


> Exactly.   That is what I'm trying to improve with an external amp priced at less than $1000.
> 
> I'm hoping to get some thoughts on this, from folks *with experience with other amps*.
> 
> No offense Betula, but if you aren't setting the RME output correctly, and are overloading the external amp, its hard to take your comparisons seriously.  Saying you need to spend $2k, with out mentioning what amps you've tried - with correct setup - comes off as fanboy-ish).  I have 2 of these RME, so I don't need to be sold on the RME. I do appreciate your enthusiasm though!!!


I tried the the THX with the RME and didn't find it did much. I also added the Rupert Neve amp, which was better though only marginally. I now have a Pathos Aurium running balanced with the RME, which I think is a truly excellent upgrade to the RME amp. The RME amp is excellent - as we hear time and again from the ardent RME community - but in terms of dynamics, punch, and detail retrieval, it benefits from an upgrade. I was also looking at the Phonitor 2 as an alternative to the Pathos, and I suspect that would also be a good upgrade. $1k or above does seem to be the necessary investment.


----------



## WildStyle-R11

I had the RME connected to my HA-1, Unless your headphones are hungry for power, the RME can handle most headphones. Obviously improvements can be made, but RME hits well above it's weight category even in the AMP section.

I am one of the Believers in RME + Phonitor combo. ^^ Albeit I don't think I will ever get one. First the RME is good enough and Two Phonitor is HUUUGE, if it was wide, I would have had one a long time ago, but too long for a desk setup.


----------



## silvahr

Regarding adding an amplifier to a quality DAC/AMP, here are some thoughts that Mr. Rob Watts posted in Chord Hugo 2 thread:



Rob Watts said:


> My first reaction to reading paul2qute reply was that I am sure people have read enough about my posting on adding another amp, as I really have said enough.
> 
> But then I thought - have I posted about all the ways that bloom, or the perception of added weight can be added to an amplifier? This would give the illusion that Chord amps are relatively underpowered (when of course they aren't). And I don't think I have posted about all the ways of how to *artificially* add to the perception of weight.
> 
> ...



This thoughts can be applied to ADI-2 also:
1) Second harmonic (AK4490 first graph and AK4493 second graph, both provided by RME):










Especially the version with AK4493 has a 2nd harmonic distortion very near -130dB like Chord Hugo 2.

2) Output impedance 0.1 Ohm (https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html).

3) ADI-2 has a DC-coupled circuit design (page 6 of user's guide).

So, if your headphone don't need extra high power, adding an amp is just a matter of taste, and will most of the times impact the transparency.
And nothing wrong with that.
It's like coffee: some prefer it pure, others with sugar, others with milk, others with milk and sugar.
No one can say A is better than B.
It's a matter of taste.

If I want different "flavours" I prefer to invest in other headphones rather than add an amplifier to the chain.
Just my 2 cents.


----------



## betula

Nostoi said:


> I tried the the THX with the RME and didn't find it did much. I also added the Rupert Neve amp, which was better though only marginally. I now have a Pathos Aurium running balanced with the RME, which I think is a truly excellent upgrade to the RME amp. The RME amp is excellent - as we hear time and again from the ardent RME community - but in terms of dynamics, punch, and detail retrieval, it benefits from an upgrade. I was also looking at the Phonitor 2 as an alternative to the Pathos, and I suspect that would also be a good upgrade. $1k or above does seem to be the necessary investment.


You can get those 2k amps for half the price secondhand.


----------



## Nostoi

betula said:


> You can get those 2k amps for half the price secondhand.


That's indeed how the secondhand market generally works, yes.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Nostoi said:


> That's indeed how the secondhand market generally works, yes.



In my experience things sell at around 70-80% of their brand new value if they are in excellent condition. Good luck finding an RME ADI-2 for EUR 470.


----------



## betula

CaptainFantastic said:


> In my experience things sell at around 70-80% of their brand new value if they are in excellent condition. Good luck finding an RME ADI-2 for EUR 470.


Obviously different products loose their value to different extent. And as a general rule the more expensive a product is, the bigger percentage it looses compared to its original selling price. Of course you won't find the RME half price, but you will find the Utopia or HEKSE half price. Same with some expensive amps. RME hardly goes down to £700 secondhand.


----------



## darmccombs

Nostoi said:


> I tried the the THX with the RME and didn't find it did much. I also added the Rupert Neve amp, which was better though only marginally. I now have a Pathos Aurium running balanced with the RME, which I think is a truly excellent upgrade to the RME amp. The RME amp is excellent - as we hear time and again from the ardent RME community - but in terms of dynamics, punch, and detail retrieval, it benefits from an upgrade. I was also looking at the Phonitor 2 as an alternative to the Pathos, and I suspect that would also be a good upgrade. $1k or above does seem to be the necessary investment.


Thank you.  This feedback is very helpful.


----------



## Tuneslover (May 14, 2020)

mixman said:


> What you do is keep the RME to about -15 to -24 dB of output any more seems to overload the THX. Also keep the THX in middle gain position depending on headphone. You get more air and less distortion that way. In general I would say just play with the output on the RME to balance out your sound. Also watch the meters too, just don’t crank it up.


I just set the RME's volume to -15 dB which requires me to set the 789 volume to the 12 o'clock position, the volume is still a bit too low for my liking.  When I set the RME volume to 0.0 I have a much more rich sound coming out of the 789 with it's volume knob at 10 o'clock.  Just curious, would you consider the RME set at 0.0 to be cranked?

I should add that I've only had the RME for a couple of days and have not yet played around with any of it's adjustments.  It's in it's factory mode default setting.  I intend to leave it that way for quite a while until my brain has become accustomed to this DAC's sound.


----------



## mixman

Tuneslover said:


> I just set the RME's volume to -15 dB which requires me to set the 789 volume to the 12 o'clock position, the volume is still a bit too low for my liking.  When I set the RME volume to 0.0 I have a much more rich sound coming out of the 789 with it's volume knob at 10 o'clock.  Just curious, would you consider the RME set at 0.0 to be cranked?
> 
> I should add that I've only had the RME for a couple of days and have not yet played around with any of it's adjustments.  It's in it's factory mode default setting.  I intend to leave it that way for quite a while until my brain has become accustomed to this DAC's sound.


Which gain setting are you using on the THX and which headphones?


----------



## Tuneslover

mixman said:


> Which gain setting are you using on the THX and which headphones?


Mid Gain & Audeze LCD-2C.


----------



## Tuneslover (May 14, 2020)

technobear said:


> I see the output levels of the ADI-2 DAC are still causing confusion.
> 
> If you are connecting to a power amp then you can set the ADI-2 DAC to AUTO REF LEVEL = ON and use the ADI-2 DAC volume control.
> 
> ...


Excellent information, thank you for that.  I have only had my RME for a couple of days so I'm in heavy learning mode.

My 789 is being fed from my RME with both SE and Balanced cables.  I set my RME as you described above with the AUTO REF LEVEL=OFF and then set the REF LEVEL to +7 dBu and then finally setting the RME volume to 0.0.  I'm using my Audeze LCD-2C via a balanced headphone cable.  I have the 789 set to mid Gain.  When I set the 789's input to SE the volume going to my headphones is about as loud as I would like at the 10 o'clock position.  When I switch the input selector on the 789 to Balanced those additional 6 dB become quite noticeable forcing me to turn the 789 volume down to the 9 o'clock position.

What am I trying to achieve with the Reference Level setting?  Should I be targeting the setting that gets me as close as possible to the 789's permissible input source voltage?  The 789 manual states that "when using a DAC or source with < 2.1 V output, any gain position may be used".  I believe you mentioned in your post that you want to set the RME output up to 2.0 V (which seems to suggest that is most desirable for the 789 too).  Based on the REF LEVEL settings, the +7 dBu equates to 1.73 V which gets pretty close to the RME's suggested 2.0 V.  But that refers to SE.  Since I'm using Balanced headphones does that mean that I should reduce the REF LEVEL setting to 1 dBu or keep it at 7 dBu?

Also, once I've nailed down the correct REF LEVEL settings for SE and Balanced, should I be able to reduce the RME volume from 0.0 to something a little less so that I have more volume range with the 789's volume control?

Sorry if I'm asking noob questions here but I'm learning...thanks for the feedback.


----------



## Marutks

Tuneslover said:


> Since I'm using Balanced headphones does that mean that I should reduce the REF LEVEL setting to 1 dBu or keep it at 7 dBu?



I think 7 dBu is the right setting for XLR out as well.  Up to 4 volts.


----------



## InstantSilence

Torn... Just torn. 
Can't try before buy so I have to rely on online reviews. Don't know if the hugo2 is a better sounding dac/amp. I know the rme is a better value.. But looking for clarity and resolution 

.. I guess just venting. I love the eq the rme offers...


----------



## technobear

Tuneslover said:


> ... I'm using my Audeze LCD-2C via a balanced headphone cable.  I have the 789 set to mid Gain.  When I set the 789's input to SE the volume going to my headphones is about as loud as I would like at the 10 o'clock position...


Clearly your headphone doesn't need mid gain on the THX. I suggest setting it to low. 

There is also no harm in setting the ADI-2 DAC to 1 dBu if that gives a more useable volume range on the THX.


----------



## bidn

Hi,

the latest revision of the RME ADI 2 FS, with the AK4493 replacing the AK4490 (BTW I understood AKM stopped producing the AK4490, so once RME's stock would run out, they would have to use the superceeding chip): a few dB SQ improvements for the DAC, but the SQ of the amp part measured a little less than that of the previous revision :

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...version-2-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.13379/

I unfortunately don't have the time to share my views re. things spoken of here the last months,
but at least re. the upscaling performed by the RME driver running on the PC:
even if you don't agree with me that it improves the SQ (with the Utopia) there is at least one thing confirmed by RME: it allows using the NOS setting without loosing in the high frequencies (the big drawback of NOS at 44kHz for any DAC is a loss of high frequencies, this is why oversampling filters are normally used and recommended instead, unless you upscale enough, the information can be found on places like the RME forum).

All the best,
bidn


----------



## tret

Has anyone else had issues with the dc power input port? Specifically, is it sensitive to angle and cable tension? The first unit I received early this week wouldn’t power on unless I fiddled with the power cable and applied a bit of pressure to one side. The replacement unit also seems sensitive, although less so. If I tug on the cable slightly the dac will lose power.

Having two in a row with the same issue makes me think this may just be a manufacturing quirk? What’s your experience?


----------



## Progisus

tret said:


> Has anyone else had issues with the dc power input port? Specifically, is it sensitive to angle and cable tension? The first unit I received early this week wouldn’t power on unless I fiddled with the power cable and applied a bit of pressure to one side. The replacement unit also seems sensitive, although less so. If I tug on the cable slightly the dac will lose power.
> 
> Having two in a row with the same issue makes me think this may just be a manufacturing quirk? What’s your experience?


I assume you locked it in place?


----------



## darmccombs

tret said:


> Has anyone else had issues with the dc power input port? Specifically, is it sensitive to angle and cable tension? The first unit I received early this week wouldn’t power on unless I fiddled with the power cable and applied a bit of pressure to one side. The replacement unit also seems sensitive, although less so. If I tug on the cable slightly the dac will lose power.
> 
> Having two in a row with the same issue makes me think this may just be a manufacturing quirk? What’s your experience?


Hmm, I have heard of a couple folks having this sort of problem, but I don't think its common.  I've read almost every post about the RME on a few of these sites and recall just the couple.  I have 2 of these ADI-2 and have had no issues.


----------



## tret

Progisus said:


> I assume you locked it in place?



Do you mean in a manner other than inserting the plug fully?



darmccombs said:


> Hmm, I have heard of a couple folks having this sort of problem, but I don't think its common.  I've read almost every post about the RME on a few of these sites and recall just the couple.  I have 2 of these ADI-2 and have had no issues.



The 2nd unit I have is pretty stable unless I push the plug (very gently) in any direction. Once power is lost, I have to remove the plug and re-insert it.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

tret said:


> Do you mean in a manner other than inserting the plug fully?
> 
> 
> 
> The 2nd unit I have is pretty stable unless I push the plug (very gently) in any direction. Once power is lost, I have to remove the plug and re-insert it.



No, there is a locking mechanism. Once inserted, you turn the cable, I believe clockwise, and it locks in place. Won't come out.


----------



## tret

Progisus said:


> I assume you locked it in place?



This made me curious so I investigated and it turns out, you were right! I had no idea (no, I didn't read this portion of the manual) that the power cable actually has to be inserted and turned to lock it in place. Amazing, I haven't had any other devices with this type of power port that does this. Is this a German thing? Quite nice.


----------



## tret

Appreciate your help @darmccombs @Progisus @CaptainFantastic


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Anyone compared RME with Questyle CMA400i?


----------



## FatCash (May 16, 2020)

Hi, I am considering upgrading to RME ADI-2 DAC but doing research about it is like a jungle...
Seriously, feels like they've been re-using the same name for like 10 years. I find ADI-2 from 2012...
Like what is "FS" in the name, "SteadyClock FS?" but how come it is present on the non-fs (in name) model? 
Pro non-pro... Which one is the latest model?

Can someone please post/link me to a page with all ADI-2 models (with release year) and perhaps just a "brief" comment about their differences? 

It feels like buying a TV where the manufacturers always put some arbitrary regional number to models so that you never feel certain that you're reading a review about the model you actually have in mind... and comparing prices becomes harder.


----------



## frogmeat69

The most up to date version of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS has the AKM ak4493 DAC chip, which boosted measurements a little, and an updated remote. I own the ak4490 model I purchased a year or so ago, and it is awesome. 
I wouldn't waste the extra money on the Pro model, features you probably won't need if all you are looking for is a solid DAC, with a nice built in headphone amp as a bonus. 
Not that the ADI-2 DAC FS doesn't have a shitload of neat features, as it does.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

FatCash said:


> Hi, I am considering upgrading to RME ADI-2 DAC but doing research about it is like a jungle...
> Seriously, feels like they've been re-using the same name for like 10 years. I find ADI-2 from 2012...
> Like what is "FS" in the name, "SteadyClock FS?" but how come it is present on the non-fs (in name) model?
> Pro non-pro... Which one is the latest model?
> ...



As far as I know they sell out pretty quickly and there are not any NOS 1st gen RME ADI-2 DACs for sale.

Manufacturer page for ADI-2 DAC FS 2nd gen https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html
Manufacturer page for ADI-2 DAC FS Pro  https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-pro-fs-be.html


----------



## betula (May 17, 2020)

FatCash said:


> Hi, I am considering upgrading to RME ADI-2 DAC but doing research about it is like a jungle...
> Seriously, feels like they've been re-using the same name for like 10 years. I find ADI-2 from 2012...
> Like what is "FS" in the name, "SteadyClock FS?" but how come it is present on the non-fs (in name) model?
> Pro non-pro... Which one is the latest model?
> ...


The ADI2 is perhaps the best value for money DAC/amp in early 2020. FS means femtosecond which is one quadrillionth of a second. This basically shows the level of accuracy of the clock in the DAC. Regarding sound quality, the highlights are speed, clarity, and tightness.
The latest model uses the AK4493 chip vs. the 4490. There is no visual or audtitional difference between them, but they come with different remotes. Good news is that you can buy the new remote for your older version of ADI2.


----------



## FatCash

Thanks @frogmeat69 @gimmeheadroom @betula for the explanations & motivating comments.
Makes sense that RME's official site list the most recent products. However in stores, old items might be available with risk of some mislabeling.
In a store near me (bax-shop), "RME ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA converter" for £1,579.00
And same store has "RME ADI-2 Pro FS 2-Channel AD/DA Converter" for £1,119.00
Is the difference only in "R" for remote? Do you believe both have FS and AK4493 described by @betula


----------



## betula

FatCash said:


> Thanks @frogmeat69 @gimmeheadroom @betula for the explanations & motivating comments.
> Makes sense that RME's official site list the most recent products. However in stores, old items might be available with risk of some mislabeling.
> In a store near me (bax-shop), "RME ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA converter" for £1,579.00
> And same store has "RME ADI-2 Pro FS 2-Channel AD/DA Converter" for £1,119.00
> Is the difference only in "R" for remote? Do you believe both have FS and AK4493 described by @betula


This version is all you need.


----------



## Marutks

I bought mine from https://studiocare.com/products/rme-adi-2-dac   ,   £825.00


----------



## SupperTime

im thinking about selling my rme adi 2 dac fs (january, 4493) model. with a cardas clear usb a to usb b cable.

if i were to bundle it, how much should i sell it for, here in the usa?


----------



## tret

SupperTime said:


> im thinking about selling my rme adi 2 dac fs (january, 4493) model. with a cardas clear usb a to usb b cable.
> 
> if i were to bundle it, how much should i sell it for, here in the usa?



I’m not in the market as I just recently bought mine but I’m curious, why are you selling?


----------



## SupperTime

tret said:


> I’m not in the market as I just recently bought mine but I’m curious, why are you selling?


this covid...i had to switch industries and now need something more portable, something with a battery, perhaps even a DAP of sorts...i hate to do it, but currenlty cant afford to have 2 devices...i got a hugo 2 and may have to make that my sole device, maybe ill just buy the 2go...idk.

i sure will miss the rme eq and featureset....

maybe i wont sell...please talk me out of it!


----------



## tret

SupperTime said:


> this covid...i had to switch industries and now need something more portable, something with a battery, perhaps even a DAP of sorts...i hate to do it, but currenlty cant afford to have 2 devices...i got a hugo 2 and may have to make that my sole device, maybe ill just buy the 2go...idk.
> 
> i sure will miss the rme eq and featureset....
> 
> maybe i wont sell...please talk me out of it!



Bummer, best of luck to you! Btw I don’t know if Chord made big improvements with 2go but I recently tried Poly and it didn’t go well. If you do go that route I hope it works out!


----------



## InstantSilence

tret said:


> Bummer, best of luck to you! Btw I don’t know if Chord made big improvements with 2go but I recently tried Poly and it didn’t go well. If you do go that route I hope it works out!


I too used to have mojo/poly, it was and is a disaster, there are a few 2go issues too


----------



## tret

InstantSilence said:


> I too used to have mojo/poly, it was and is a disaster, there are a few 2go issues too



It's a shame really, it should have been a slam dunk for Chord with the incredible popularity they already had established w/ Mojo.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

FatCash said:


> Thanks @frogmeat69 @gimmeheadroom @betula for the explanations & motivating comments.
> Makes sense that RME's official site list the most recent products. However in stores, old items might be available with risk of some mislabeling.
> In a store near me (bax-shop), "RME ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA converter" for £1,579.00
> And same store has "RME ADI-2 Pro FS 2-Channel AD/DA Converter" for £1,119.00
> Is the difference only in "R" for remote? Do you believe both have FS and AK4493 described by @betula



The Pro model has more features and is not the DAC we're discussing in this thread. RME is a pro audio company and the ADI-2 DAC FS is pretty much the only "consumer" product. That means it is targeted at the hifi buyer rather than studio/production/live performance user. You may or may not want the extra features. Also, the amp is a little more powerful. Personally I prefer to go for a separate amp rather than jam an amp for all seasons in a DAC housing.

Fortunately it is easy not to get ripped off if a shop doesn't distinguish between the previous and current models of the ADI-2 DAC, either intentionally or by mistake.

The remote on the current version looks like this:






The RME page is still linking to info and setup videos using the previous version 

The reason is that except for the change from AKM4490 to 4493, the upgraded remote and one additional color option on the OLED display, the units are almost the same.

For comparison of prices at a reasonable shop, consider Thomann.de

Current production RME DAC ADI-2 FS https://www.thomann.de/intl/rme_adi_2_dac_fs.htm
Current production RME ADI-2 FS (notice subtle name difference, totally different product!) https://www.thomann.de/intl/rme_adi_2_fs.htm

If you check upthread, you can see pics posted by guys with the new and old units including boxes and remotes etc. I got a new model from the first batch Thomann received and posted pics.


----------



## SupperTime

i guess ive decided to sell it, i hope its a good price including the cable for people
really will miss the feature set.
i know its a desktop solution but one must appreciate how light and small the footprint of this awesome device is.

im allready regretting it, i can see myself rebuying it in the future.
have we all done some of that before?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-v2-4493-cardas-clear-usb-a-b.932720/


----------



## CaptainFantastic

SupperTime said:


> i guess ive decided to sell it, i hope its a good price including the cable for people
> really will miss the feature set.
> i know its a desktop solution but one must appreciate how light and small the footprint of this awesome device is.
> 
> ...



Yes, if you already think you will regret it and might buy it again... the answer is simple = don't sell. Unless you need to for life reasons, keep it. You will regret it if whatever you are replacing it with does not provide the same or better quality and functionality. IMHO


----------



## InstantSilence

Wow! Why not keep


----------



## SupperTime

CaptainFantastic said:


> Yes, if you already think you will regret it and might buy it again... the answer is simple = don't sell. Unless you need to for life reasons, keep it. You will regret it if whatever you are replacing it with does not provide the same or better quality and functionality. IMHO


i agree 100 percent, my work has shifted and im forced to get something for portable use, like iems and a dap of sorts....not excited about it
the RME adi 2 dac feature set and sound quality is no where to be found around the same price range...even higher. features above features.
a shame.....i might just not sell....damn....
forced to get rid of my ether c flow 1.1 in order to fund iems


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

SupperTime said:


> i guess ive decided to sell it, i hope its a good price including the cable for people
> really will miss the feature set.
> i know its a desktop solution but one must appreciate how light and small the footprint of this awesome device is.
> 
> ...


Noooo.... Sell the either's and keep the RME.  That iem output is an amazing feature. But seriously if you have to you have to.  You will miss it though.


----------



## SupperTime

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Noooo.... Sell the either's and keep the RME.  That iem output is an amazing feature. But seriously if you have to you have to.  You will miss it though.


i know! the rme is also stellar  for the iem output. true silent even with extremely sensitive iems....a true shame....i hope one day rme makes a battery powered one.   
idk, it needs nothing new.  a true quality piece of gear.

id sell the ether c flow 1.1 at 800 shipped/paypal


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

SupperTime said:


> i know! the rme is also stellar  for the iem output. true silent even with extremely sensitive iems....a true shame....i hope one day rme makes a battery powered one.
> idk, it needs nothing new.  a true quality piece of gear.
> 
> id sell the ether c flow 1.1 at 800 shipped/paypal



Throw a kidney in there any you will have quite a portable setup.


----------



## Progisus

I’ve been using the iem output to Tia Fourte. It really is stellar and I prefer it to my H2 with iems.


----------



## SupperTime

Progisus said:


> I’ve been using the iem output to Tia Fourte. It really is stellar and I prefer it to my H2 with iems.


do you find the H2 to have better detail and clarity? also do you find H2 to have any spikes in its FR?


----------



## Progisus

SupperTime said:


> do you find the H2 to have better detail and clarity? also do you find H2 to have any spikes in its FR?


I find the H2 to be a bit harsh in the treble as compared to my TT. I prefer the TT to the H2 as it is smoother and has the feeling that any power required will be there. The ADI2 is very linear in it’s freq response and analytical but in a good way. The chords are more organic. If I feed the ADI from HQPlayer with upscaled DSD256 it passes the chords even when fed max pcm. I feel the ADI amp drives my cans well but the iem amp really shines.


----------



## Slaphead (May 20, 2020)

SupperTime said:


> i guess ive decided to sell it, i hope its a good price including the cable for people
> really will miss the feature set.
> i know its a desktop solution but one must appreciate how light and small the footprint of this awesome device is.
> 
> ...



IMO you should sell the Hugo2 which will net you more money, and then, if you like the Chord sound, get a Mojo. But honestly for on the go music most DAPs or phones are more than capable, especially in an environment where ambient noise will negate the benefits of more specialised equipment.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Ok as a relatively new RME ADI-2 FS owner I could use some advice.  It seems like I need to crank up the volume knob on the RME more than I thought I would have to.  Listening with Arya's, HD800s, and ZMF Verite Closed.  On low power I find myself at around -1 db  and on high maybe -12.  My first question is this normal?  I don't feel like I listen at high listening levels.  I mean there is volume there but I am middle aged (omg did I just say that?)  so its not hearing loss and I am not a youngin cranking it up to 11.  I also could have messed with something that I shouldn't have touched.  Second does this mean I should be looking at external amps?  On all of my past gear I would rate the power based on how far I need to turn the nob.  Maybe if some people could share their volume levels with similar headphones?  or what setting I touched that I shouldn't have?

Any advice would be appreciated.  I guess I should have started with wow this unit is amazing.  I am unbelievably impressed impressed with the performance and I haven't even gotten to far into the menus.  This product should get a lot more love then it does.


----------



## betula

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Ok as a relatively new RME ADI-2 FS owner I could use some advice.  It seems like I need to crank up the volume knob on the RME more than I thought I would have to.  Listening with Arya's, HD800s, and ZMF Verite Closed.  On low power I find myself at around -1 db  and on high maybe -12.  My first question is this normal?  I don't feel like I listen at high listening levels.  I mean there is volume there but I am middle aged (omg did I just say that?)  so its not hearing loss and I am not a youngin cranking it up to 11.  I also could have messed with something that I shouldn't have touched.  Second does this mean I should be looking at external amps?  On all of my past gear I would rate the power based on how far I need to turn the nob.  Maybe if some people could share their volume levels with similar headphones?  or what setting I touched that I shouldn't have?
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated.  I guess I should have started with wow this unit is amazing.  I am unbelievably impressed impressed with the performance and I haven't even gotten to far into the menus.  This product should get a lot more love then it does.


Those volume levels do seem a bit high. There is a 'dim' function on the bottom of the menu, make sure it is off. It actually 'dims' the sound and not the screen.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Ok as a relatively new RME ADI-2 FS owner I could use some advice.  It seems like I need to crank up the volume knob on the RME more than I thought I would have to.  Listening with Arya's, HD800s, and ZMF Verite Closed.  On low power I find myself at around -1 db  and on high maybe -12.  My first question is this normal?  I don't feel like I listen at high listening levels.  I mean there is volume there but I am middle aged (omg did I just say that?)  so its not hearing loss and I am not a youngin cranking it up to 11.  I also could have messed with something that I shouldn't have touched.  Second does this mean I should be looking at external amps?  On all of my past gear I would rate the power based on how far I need to turn the nob.  Maybe if some people could share their volume levels with similar headphones?  or what setting I touched that I shouldn't have?
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated.  I guess I should have started with wow this unit is amazing.  I am unbelievably impressed impressed with the performance and I haven't even gotten to far into the menus.  This product should get a lot more love then it does.



Like @betula said make sure DIM is not on. But turn the volume knob all the way down and keep the cans off your ears while doing all this!

The other thing is to make sure high power amp is on. I keep that setting for all my cans, even easier to drive ones like Fostex or HD 25.


----------



## technobear

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Ok as a relatively new RME ADI-2 FS owner I could use some advice.  It seems like I need to crank up the volume knob on the RME more than I thought I would have to.  Listening with Arya's, HD800s, and ZMF Verite Closed.  On low power I find myself at around -1 db  and on high maybe -12.  My first question is this normal?  I don't feel like I listen at high listening levels.  I mean there is volume there but I am middle aged (omg did I just say that?)  so its not hearing loss and I am not a youngin cranking it up to 11.  I also could have messed with something that I shouldn't have touched.  Second does this mean I should be looking at external amps?  On all of my past gear I would rate the power based on how far I need to turn the nob.  Maybe if some people could share their volume levels with similar headphones?  or what setting I touched that I shouldn't have?
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated.  I guess I should have started with wow this unit is amazing.  I am unbelievably impressed impressed with the performance and I haven't even gotten to far into the menus.  This product should get a lot more love then it does.


I never engage the Hi-Power setting and I can't get higher than -10dB with the 600 ohm T1. That's full rock concert level! 

My money is on the DIM function being engaged.


----------



## betula

gimmeheadroom said:


> Like @betulaI keep that setting for all my cans, even easier to drive ones like Fostex or HD 25.


Me too. The sound is just more dynamic and punchier that way which I enjoy.


----------



## Progisus

betula said:


> Me too. The sound is just more dynamic and punchier that way which I enjoy.


For my cans it’s hi power as well. Lo drives them but hi is definitely more dynamic.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Thank you all for the feedback.  I checked and DIM was off but it was a good thing to check.  It looks like what I am experiencing is in line with all of you.  The low power mode will drive all my cans but at the upper end of the volume knob.  On high power all is well.  I just thought having to use high power may have been pushing the amp too hard and I would benefit from an external amp but maybe the way RME uses low power and high power is different than others using high and low gain.  From my understanding of amps it is always better to use low gain if possible but that may not be the case here.


----------



## Slaphead

The low power mode is really for highly sensitive IEMs in order to enable a complete noise free background, and while you can drive full size headphones in low power mode the volume reached may not be sufficient - although I've not had a problem with low power mode it will depend on headphone and personal preferred listening levels. However I must say I've barely listened to headphones since I got the ADI so take my comments with a pinch of salt.


----------



## betula

↑ True. This is my experience as well on other amps and DACs too. Low gain is often specifically meant for IEMs. Most full sized headphones open up to their full potential in high-gain regardless their impedance or sensitivity rating. Even if means keeping the volume knob on a relatively low setting.


----------



## Ethan Chlan

I've been searching for an endgame DAC and I think this might be the product I'm looking for. I always thought I would go rack-mounted for my audio gear but the ADI-2 has a lot of features that are more difficult to find in other products, especially at this price. Currently running an O2 DAC/amp with a receiver I will eventually upgrade. I'm expecting my socks to be blown off, so please tell me to lower my expectations if they are set too high. I have a set of JBL 590's which covers over 90% of my listening needs, but this DAC seems to be more for headphones than speakers. I imagine that I won't experience a difference so tell me if there's anything better out there that might be a better fit. 

Also, let me know if there's a deal on this. $1200 on a DAC is a big boy purchase and the pill might be easier to swallow if a deal is out there with my name on it


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

I don't have experience with this Dac and Speakers but I really do not think you have to lower your expectations.  I was upgrading from a headphone setup that was a much smaller jump than your o2 dac and it honestly took me a few days to understand what I was hearing.  The details that you will hear WILL blow your mind.  I had high expectations given the reviews that I have read on the RME and was still blown away.  This was all before even touching any of the Dac's features.  I think with speakers this will absolutely shine.  The DSP corrections that you will be able to perform with his unit is going to be killer.  I don't think there are any deals to be had at this time and they don't seem to come up frequently on the used market and I can see why.  The RME is never leaving my desk.


----------



## betula

Ethan Chlan said:


> I've been searching for an endgame DAC and I think this might be the product I'm looking for. I always thought I would go rack-mounted for my audio gear but the ADI-2 has a lot of features that are more difficult to find in other products, especially at this price. Currently running an O2 DAC/amp with a receiver I will eventually upgrade. I'm expecting my socks to be blown off, so please tell me to lower my expectations if they are set too high. I have a set of JBL 590's which covers over 90% of my listening needs, but this DAC seems to be more for headphones than speakers. I imagine that I won't experience a difference so tell me if there's anything better out there that might be a better fit.
> 
> Also, let me know if there's a deal on this. $1200 on a DAC is a big boy purchase and the pill might be easier to swallow if a deal is out there with my name on it


It doesn't get much better than this when it comes to DACs. Unless you are willing to pay 3-4 times more than the asking price of the ADI2.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ethan Chlan said:


> I've been searching for an endgame DAC and I think this might be the product I'm looking for. I always thought I would go rack-mounted for my audio gear but the ADI-2 has a lot of features that are more difficult to find in other products, especially at this price. Currently running an O2 DAC/amp with a receiver I will eventually upgrade. I'm expecting my socks to be blown off, so please tell me to lower my expectations if they are set too high. I have a set of JBL 590's which covers over 90% of my listening needs, but this DAC seems to be more for headphones than speakers. I imagine that I won't experience a difference so tell me if there's anything better out there that might be a better fit.
> 
> Also, let me know if there's a deal on this. $1200 on a DAC is a big boy purchase and the pill might be easier to swallow if a deal is out there with my name on it



I have the Brooklyn DAC+ and the RME 2nd edition. I would say for non-MQA DACs the RME is the top choice for the money.

If you want MQA and a nicer UI and a nicer build then the Brooklyn DAC+ is a top choice at the 2K euro mark.


----------



## G8torbyte

gimmeheadroom said:


> The Pro model has more features and is not the DAC we're discussing in this thread. RME is a pro audio company and the ADI-2 DAC FS is pretty much the only "consumer" product. That means it is targeted at the hifi buyer rather than studio/production/live performance user. You may or may not want the extra features. Also, the amp is a little more powerful. Personally I prefer to go for a separate amp rather than jam an amp for all seasons in a DAC housing.
> 
> The reason is that except for the change from AKM4490 to 4493, the upgraded remote and one additional color option on the OLED display, the units are almost the same.



I own the earlier version of ADI-2 DAC and been using it over the past year.  I was able to get a demo model for $900 at Sweetwater.com.   After the recent firmware upgrades it added the amber EQ display as an option in the setup menu and another volume display that shows more information i.e. output connection, input signal, volume dBu level, bass/treble levels, EQ preset select and loudness.  I appreciate RME providing continued improvements, support and a good manual.   So many functions into such a small unit is impressive.  My only gripe is I wish it was more intuitive to navigate the menu functions.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

G8torbyte said:


> I appreciate RME providing continued improvements, support and a good manual.   So many functions into such a small unit is impressive.  My only gripe is I wish it was more intuitive to navigate the menu functions.



I completely agree with that.  I thought the menus were something I just needed to get used to but since you aren't diving in there everyday its taking longer to get used to the navigation than I thought.


----------



## betula

G8torbyte said:


> I own the earlier version of ADI-2 DAC and been using it over the past year.  I was able to get a demo model for $900 at Sweetwater.com.   After the recent firmware upgrades it added the amber EQ display as an option in the setup menu and another volume display that shows more information i.e. output connection, input signal, volume dBu level, bass/treble levels, EQ preset select and loudness.  I appreciate RME providing continued improvements, support and a good manual.   So many functions into such a small unit is impressive.  My only gripe is I wish it was more intuitive to navigate the menu functions.


Menu navigation is not that bad if you consider the amount of adjustable features. I agree though, half of these features are unnecessary. And it is easy to get lost in the menu if you are not sure what you are looking for...


----------



## CaptainFantastic

FullBlownEargasam said:


> I completely agree with that.  I thought the menus were something I just needed to get used to but since you aren't diving in there everyday its taking longer to get used to the navigation than I thought.



Watch their helpful walk-through videos on Youtube, if you haven't already. If it's been a few months since you last used something and need a refresher, they are just a few minutes long. With all due respect, we are grown people spending thousands of dollars/euro on this hobby. IMHO we should appreciate the complexity and not expect dumbed-down Animal Crossings UI from everything.


----------



## betula

I know, RME settings can be really different depending on our headphones and preferred sound signatures, but I still thought it would be fun to share our settings.
What I like with my LCD2C and LCDX is high power mode, width to maximum 1.0, crossfeed on level 2.


----------



## Slaphead

Ethan Chlan said:


> I've been searching for an endgame DAC and I think this might be the product I'm looking for. I always thought I would go rack-mounted for my audio gear but the ADI-2 has a lot of features that are more difficult to find in other products, especially at this price. Currently running an O2 DAC/amp with a receiver I will eventually upgrade. I'm expecting my socks to be blown off, so please tell me to lower my expectations if they are set too high. I have a set of JBL 590's which covers over 90% of my listening needs,* but this DAC seems to be more for headphones than speakers.* I imagine that I won't experience a difference so tell me if there's anything better out there that might be a better fit.
> 
> Also, let me know if there's a deal on this. $1200 on a DAC is a big boy purchase and the pill might be easier to swallow if a deal is out there with my name on it



No, no and no. It's a DAC with both XLR and RCA outputs that can operate in a pure dac mode, or by default operates as a pre-amp for powered monitors/speakers or a power amp.

It just happens to have 2 headphone jacks, which apparently sound OK.


----------



## Slim1970

Just joined the club for this awesome DAC. Now I need to learn how to take advantage of its feature set.


----------



## Slaphead

Slim1970 said:


> Just joined the club for this awesome DAC. Now I need to learn how to take advantage of its feature set.



Honestly, it looks, and performs better when you've turned it on.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Slim1970 said:


> Just joined the club for this awesome DAC. Now I need to learn how to take advantage of its feature set.



Congrats on the great purchase (not just saying this because I have one).  This is one of the first products of any kind that I didn't question weather I made the right decision after using it.


----------



## betula

Slim1970 said:


> Just joined the club for this awesome DAC. Now I need to learn how to take advantage of its feature set.


It is not as complicated as it initially seems. You will soon find your favourite settings and stick with it. 
For sure it depends on your headphones, but I'd still be interested to see other's settings. 
With the RME ADI2 I mostly use LCDX and LCD2C these days. 
My preferred settings are: high power mode, width to the maximum of 1.0, crossfeed on level 2. No bass or treble boost needed in high gain.


----------



## Slim1970

Slaphead said:


> Honestly, it looks, and performs better when you've turned it on.


Good point, I just turned it off to take a picture. I've been listening to it with the LCD-4z's. Sounds very good out the box. I'm about to play around with the EQ.


----------



## Slim1970

betula said:


> It is not as complicated as it initially seems. You will soon find your favourite settings and stick with it.
> For sure it depends on your headphones, but I'd still be interested to see other's settings.
> With the RME ADI2 I mostly use LCDX and LCD2C these days.
> My preferred settings are: high power mode, width to the maximum of 1.0, crossfeed on level 2. No bass or treble boost needed in high gain.


Interested in this as well. Since you have a couple of Audeze headphones, have you applied any EQ to them. I have the LCD-4z's that I'm currently listening to and would like to play around with the parametric EQ a bit.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Slim1970 said:


> Good point, I just turned it off to take a picture. I've been listening to it with the LCD-4z's. Sounds very good out the box. I'm about to play around with the EQ.



I am trying to EQ a pair of IEMs for the first time.  EQing is a lot harder than I thought.  Does anyone have some resources specifically for headphones that could get me pointed in the right direction?


----------



## Slim1970

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Congrats on the great purchase (not just saying this because I have one).  This is one of the first products of any kind that I didn't question weather I made the right decision after using it.


It's very good and has a different sound than my Chord DAC's.


----------



## Facta (May 23, 2020)

Need some help deciding:

1. For IEMs, the regular headphone on ADI-2 *Pro FS BE* is only a little inferior or vastly so when compared with the 'IEM output' port on *ADI-2 DAC FS*?

2. Adding *Topping A90* to bypass the amp section of ADI-2 Pro FS BE vastly improves when compared to the stand-along output of ADI-2 Pro FS BE or just about 5%-10%?


----------



## betula

Slim1970 said:


> Interested in this as well. Since you have a couple of Audeze headphones, have you applied any EQ to them. I have the LCD-4z's that I'm currently listening to and would like to play around with the parametric EQ a bit.


I tried a few EQ settings on my Audeze headphones, but I didn't really like any of them. IMO if you don't like the default sound of your hp no eq can fix that.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

betula said:


> I tried a few EQ settings on my Audeze headphones, but I didn't really like any of them. IMO if you don't like the default sound of your hp no eq can fix that.



I have a set of V14s and just want to take a little brightness out of them.  Just a little.  Thought it was going to be as simple as going to the high end of the graph and pull it down lol.  Guess thats not how it works.


----------



## G8torbyte

betula said:


> I know, RME settings can be really different depending on our headphones and preferred sound signatures, but I still thought it would be fun to share our settings.
> What I like with my LCD2C and LCDX is high power mode, width to maximum 1.0, crossfeed on level 2.



I run the RME line-out through the XLR outputs to a THX AAA 789 amp.  I max out the volume on the amp and control the volume and tone/frequency settings with the RME.  The THX is super clean and transparent so all adjustments with the RME go through clearly.

I set a baseline (slight V-shaped) EQ signature and then adjust bass and treble with the right-hand knobs with different headphones if necessary.  Width and crossfeed are set at one.  I recently acquired the LCD2-Classics with balanced cables from Periapt and really enjoying the expansive/immersive performance with the large planar drivers.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

G8torbyte said:


> I run the RME line-out through the XLR outputs to a THX AAA 789 amp.  I max out the volume on the amp and control the volume and tone/frequency settings with the RME.  The THX is super clean and transparent so all adjustments with the RME go through clearly.
> 
> I set a baseline (slight V-shaped) EQ signature and then adjust bass and treble with the right-hand knobs with different headphones if necessary.  Width and crossfeed are set at one.  I recently acquired the LCD2-Classics with balanced cables from Periapt and really enjoying the expansive/immersive performance with the large planar drivers.



Do you find the THX an improvement on the RME amp when you are using single ended?


----------



## betula

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Do you find the THX an improvement on the RME amp when you are using single ended?


To me there is no improvement in SE mode. Yet to try my balanced cables about to arrive.


----------



## Slaphead (May 23, 2020)

FullBlownEargasam said:


> I have a set of V14s and just want to take a little brightness out of them.  Just a little.  Thought it was going to be as simple as going to the high end of the graph and pull it down lol.  Guess thats not how it works.



Just create a -2 to -3dB notch at around 8KHz. if that doesn't help then increase the Q until the offending frequency is reduced. After this you can narrow the Q again and do a sweep to isolate the frequency in question and, once found expand the Q to taste.

You might find this useful if you're an EQ beginner.  https://blog.landr.com/eq-basics-everything-musicians-need-know-eq/


----------



## CaptainFantastic

My experience with external amps is (a) RME ADI-2 with Gilmore Lite Mk II = preferred it without the Gilmore after one listen; it did not improve the sound or do anything else for me, just added some grain it seemed; (b) RME ADI-2 with Woo Audio WA3 (with Tung Sol 5998 JAN power tube and Telefunken branded E88CC) - this immediately seemed to add space and dimension to the sound. It was so obvious after the first minute that I now always turn on the WA3 when I really want to enjoy the music, not just casually listening while working. I had two non-audio/head-fi-ers do a blind test and they immediately confirmed the same thing. So now I do believe reasonably priced external amps can improve the sound of the RME. But I have my suspicions that it should not be paired with sterile amps.


----------



## G8torbyte

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Do you find the THX an improvement on the RME amp when you are using single ended?



Yes with a few headphones that have higher impedance.  The RME performs great on its own with any headphone that is responsive/efficient without high impedance.  Hard to drive high-Ohm cans and planar driver magnets tend to require more power to push them.  Although lately newer planars like the LCD X and 4-series are more efficient and some can run on mobile phones.  I did notice with the Sendy Aivas and Ether CX’s the THX amp seemed to open them up more.


----------



## kalsonc

been using my rme adi-2 for almost half a year now - loving it
coming from a vali 2 + bifrost - it transformed my headphones a lot

pairing it with hd800s, lcd2f (2018 version), and andromeda has been a joy

but been tempting to get a thx789 - is it worthwhile?
down the road would like to add hifiman arya to the collection but not sure if the rme is enough to power it?


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

betula said:


> To me there is no improvement in SE mode. Yet to try my balanced cables about to arrive.


Thats good to know.  Thank you for the response.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

kalsonc said:


> down the road would like to add hifiman arya to the collection but not sure if the rme is enough to power it?



The RME has plenty of power for the Aryas.  It is a fantastic pairing.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Slaphead said:


> Just create a -2 to -3dB notch at around 8KHz. if that doesn't help then increase the Q until the offending frequency is reduced. After this you can narrow the Q again and do a sweep to isolate the frequency in question and, once found expand the Q to taste.
> 
> You might find this useful if you're an EQ beginner.  https://blog.landr.com/eq-basics-everything-musicians-need-know-eq/



Thank you very much for the info.  I will take a look and it is much appreciated.


----------



## kalsonc

good to hear - now i don't have to worry about needing to get another amp ahahha


----------



## darmccombs

FullBlownEargasam said:


> I am trying to EQ a pair of IEMs for the first time.  EQing is a lot harder than I thought.  Does anyone have some resources specifically for headphones that could get me pointed in the right direction?


Here you go.  This is great starting point...  Scroll down the page to your IEM.  I usually just use the first 5 settings in the Parametric section with the RME.

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results


----------



## Slim1970

So far I’m finding the RME ADI-2 FS superb with my Audeze LCD-4z’s, Audio-Technica ATH-R70x’s, and Hifiman HE1000se’s. Not so great with my Abyss Diana Phi’s. The headphone output on it is better my GIlmore Lite Mk2 and Burson Fun. Compared to my Hugo 2 as all-in-one, I prefer richest and tone of the ADI-2 FS. As a DAC only, I prefer the detail retrieval, clarity, and transparency of the Hugo 2. The TT2 is a few steps ahead of both performance wise. I can’t really say it’s quadruple the price better than what you get from the RME ADI-2 FS. 

Needless to say, I’m really impressed with the RME ADI-2 FS. It’s going to replace some of my gear for sure.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

darmccombs said:


> Here you go.  This is great starting point...  Scroll down the page to your IEM.  I usually just use the first 5 settings in the Parametric section with the RME.
> 
> https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results



Great resource.  Much appreciated


----------



## 524419 (May 24, 2020)

RME ADI-2 DAC on Steroids.
It's a work in progress..upper installation plate coming.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (May 24, 2020)

G8torbyte said:


> I run the RME line-out through the XLR outputs to a THX AAA 789 amp.  I max out the volume on the amp and control the volume and tone/frequency settings with the RME.



The way things are designed to work is the source should be run at line out (line-level) and the volume should be controlled at the amplifier.

The only time I use EQ with the RME is for my Fostex TR to kill the V signature and not very often for my Sennheiser 800s. Parametric EQ is about correcting sonic deficiencies. I try not to buy headphones that have sonic problems but I also have less cans than many people on here. Basically I prefer listening to my sources all the way to the end (speakers, cans) without tone settings, loudness, or EQ. Could be my reaction to the graphic EQ bass wars of the 1970s


----------



## Toddy

Diet Kokaine said:


> RME ADI-2 DAC on Steroids.
> It's a work in progress..upper installation plate coming.






What the …

… ist this?


----------



## Jon1323

darmccombs said:


> Here you go.  This is great starting point...  Scroll down the page to your IEM.  I usually just use the first 5 settings in the Parametric section with the RME.
> 
> https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results


Wow EQ'd my Layla's on the RME using the 2 o'clock setting from that site and its unbelievable the difference. I was perfectly happy with them before but it was like a huge veil was lifted, the mids were brought forward and going back to the straight flat setting i had it on all this time sounds so muffled now. Thanks for that link.


----------



## 524419

Toddy said:


> What the …
> 
> … ist this?


It's the RME ADI-2 recapped. 
Stock 16 volt Nichicon caps replaced with Mundorf Ecap 70 Capacitors. 
Sounds unbelievable, still need to install a top box to house these caps in permanently. 
Stock RME presents a flat audio image, this MOD makes it 3D with real organic Depth. Stock sounds very sterile in comparison, this brings emotionality and texture to all instruments. Caps are still burning in.......But I am more satisfied than I could have ever hoped to be.


----------



## Slaphead

Diet Kokaine said:


> It's the RME ADI-2 recapped.
> Stock 16 volt Nichicon caps replaced with Mundorf Ecap 70 Capacitors.
> Sounds unbelievable, still need to install a top box to house these caps in permanently.
> Stock RME presents a flat audio image, this MOD makes it 3D with real organic Depth. Stock sounds very sterile in comparison, this brings emotionality and texture to all instruments. Caps are still burning in.......But I am more satisfied than I could have ever hoped to be.



So, how's the warranty with RME then?

Nice work


----------



## 524419 (May 24, 2020)

Slaphead said:


> So, how's the warranty with RME then?
> 
> Nice work


warranty...? 
I am not looking to sell, and if anything happens, I am more than capable to doing the repairs 
Doesn't even sound like the same DAC, emotional engagement, musicality, depth/extension of stage, textures, cohesiveness of the audio image are real standouts, and these capacitors  have another 400 plus hours of break in.


----------



## darmccombs

Jon1323 said:


> Wow EQ'd my Layla's on the RME using the 2 o'clock setting from that site and its unbelievable the difference. I was perfectly happy with them before but it was like a huge veil was lifted, the mids were brought forward and going back to the straight flat setting i had it on all this time sounds so muffled now. Thanks for that link.


I'm glad the link helped.  I think it's a great starting point for EQ settings, and they've covered numerous headphones.  Whoever does that website, is providing a terrific service to the audio community.


----------



## Slim1970

Good grief is the SE output on the ADI-2 FS good!


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

darmccombs said:


> Here you go.  This is great starting point...  Scroll down the page to your IEM.  I usually just use the first 5 settings in the Parametric section with the RME.
> 
> https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results



Wow  I just eqed another pair of IEMs using the link as a reference.  I was against EQing before but now I am looking for the rest of my cans on the list.  Thank you again.  This is an amazing link.


----------



## Slim1970

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Wow  I just eqed another pair of IEMs using the link as a reference.  I was against EQing before but now I am looking for the rest of my cans on the list.  Thank you again.  This is an amazing link.


Looking at the EQ parameters, he gives a list of 10. How do you decide which 5 to use?


----------



## hkpants

Slim1970 said:


> Looking at the EQ parameters, he gives a list of 10. How do you decide which 5 to use?



They state that the first 5 filters can be used independently, so I'm assuming that means the last 5 filters should be used in conjunction. I'd probably use the first five filters, but you can try both the first 5 and the last 5 and see what works better.


----------



## Slim1970

hkpants said:


> They state that the first 5 filters can be used independently, so I'm assuming that means the last 5 filters should be used in conjunction. I'd probably use the first five filters, but you can try both the first 5 and the last 5 and see what works better.


Got it, I was playing around with the HD600 settings. I was mixing and matching them instead of grouping them. As others have said, the HD600’s just don’t sound very good out of the ADI-2 FS. That’s why I was trying different things to improve their sound.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Slim1970 said:


> Got it, I was playing around with the HD600 settings. I was mixing and matching them instead of grouping them. As others have said, the HD600’s just don’t sound very good out of the ADI-2 FS. That’s why I was trying different things to improve their sound.


Its so odd.  Everything ..... I mean EVERYTHING in my collection sounds absolutely amazing out of the RME but neither of my sennhiesers sound even acceptable.  I have the RME also connected to my Darkvoice and that sounds amazing with sennhiesers but not straight through the RME.


----------



## Slim1970

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Its so odd.  Everything ..... I mean EVERYTHING in my collection sounds absolutely amazing out of the RME but neither of my sennhiesers sound even acceptable.  I have the RME also connected to my Darkvoice and that sounds amazing with sennhiesers but not straight through the RME.


I’m having the same experience going through my collection. I’m amazed at how good the RME is and that’s with the TT2 sitting right beside it. Outside of my harder to drive headphones, my HD600’s have absolutely zero synergy with the RME. I can’t put a finger on it.


----------



## VRacer-111

Slim1970 said:


> Looking at the EQ parameters, he gives a list of 10. How do you decide which 5 to use?



I have 11 bands of EQ available with my ADI-2 based setup...






5 standard + bass/treble knobs (2) + Loki (4)... of course the Loki bands are set at 20Hz, 400Hz, 2kHz, and 8kHz...

Mainly have it paired with either a Garage 1217 Project Ember or Project Polaris... the Ember gives that separation and holographic presentation you only get from tube amps (especially with a CIFTE 12AU7 tube) while the Polaris give more punch and snap with warmth and full bodied sound. Headphones are modded TH-X00 Purplehearts, closed back modded HD58X, or modded Koss Porta Pros.

Run Eq on my setup as follows:

Foobar2K:
55Hz, +3
77Hz, +1

RME ADI-2:
low shelf, 57Hz, +3.5dB, Q1.1
Bass knob 82Hz, +1.5dB, Q1.3

Loki:
20Hz knob - little less than 2 o'clock
400 Hz knob - ~ 11 o'clock
2kHz knob - ~ 1o'clock
8kHz knob - little more than 1 o'clock


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Slim1970 said:


> Got it, I was playing around with the HD600 settings. I was mixing and matching them instead of grouping them. As others have said, the HD600’s just don’t sound very good out of the ADI-2 FS. That’s why I was trying different things to improve their sound.



A tube OTL is the best way to do that. Same for the 800/800S


----------



## XUPX

Slim1970 said:


> So far I’m finding the RME ADI-2 FS superb with my Audeze LCD-4z’s, Audio-Technica ATH-R70x’s, and Hifiman HE1000se’s. Not so great with my Abyss Diana Phi’s. The headphone output on it is better my GIlmore Lite Mk2 and Burson Fun. Compared to my Hugo 2 as all-in-one, I prefer richest and tone of the ADI-2 FS. As a DAC only, I prefer the detail retrieval, clarity, and transparency of the Hugo 2. The TT2 is a few steps ahead of both performance wise. I can’t really say it’s quadruple the price better than what you get from the RME ADI-2 FS.
> 
> Needless to say, I’m really impressed with the RME ADI-2 FS. It’s going to replace some of my gear for sure.


With the Diana's, do you prefer the Hugo 2 (non TT) or the RME? 
Currently have the Hugo 2, debating the RME to replace it. Have the Diana V2 but might switch it to the Phi soon.


----------



## Slim1970

XUPX said:


> With the Diana's, do you prefer the Hugo 2 (non TT) or the RME?
> Currently have the Hugo 2, debating the RME to replace it. Have the Diana V2 but might switch it to the Phi soon.


The Diana Phi’s sounds under powered when driven directly out of both. They need some power to sound their best. Either one of them in DAC mode connected to a power amp will get you better results. I have the RME connected to my Burson Timekeeper, connected to an HE-Adapter. I’ve never heard the Diana Phi’s and my Susvara sound so good. 

The RME as a preamp is stellar and I prefer it over the Hugo 2 in that regard. The RME as a headphone amp gets the nod as well over the Hugo 2. The RME is more musical and works with a wider variety of headphones. Like I said before, it probably has the best SE output that I’ve heard on a amp. Add in the adjustments and tweaks you can do with the RME and that makes it very hard to beat. 

The Hugo 2 has the flexibility of being a transportable. So, it serves a different purpose. I also like the Hugo 2 as a DAC/amp for darker sounding headphones and tube amps. It’s brighter, transparent nature offsets their warmth for the ultimate blend of musicality.


----------



## Progisus

Slim1970 said:


> The Diana Phi’s sounds under powered when driven directly out of both. They need some power to sound their best. Either one of them in DAC mode connected to a power amp will get you better results. I have the RME connected to my Burson Timekeeper, connected to an HE-Adapter. I’ve never heard the Diana Phi’s and my Susvara sound so good.
> 
> The RME as a preamp is stellar and I prefer it over the Hugo 2 in that regard. The RME as a headphone amp gets the nod as well over the Hugo 2. The RME is more musical and works with a wider variety of headphones. Like I said before, it probably has the best SE output that I’ve heard on a amp. Add in the adjustments and tweaks you can do with the RME and that makes it very hard to beat.
> 
> The Hugo 2 has the flexibility of being a transportable. So, it serves a different purpose. I also like the Hugo 2 as a DAC/amp for darker sounding headphones and tube amps. It’s brighter, transparent nature offsets their warmth for the ultimate blend of musicality.


I am driving Utopias with the RME with great results. I was thinking of upgrading my TT to a TT2 but the RME may make that an unnecessary expense. How does it compare against your TT2?


----------



## Slim1970

Progisus said:


> I am driving Utopias with the RME with great results. I was thinking of upgrading my TT to a TT2 but the RME may make that an unnecessary expense. How does it compare against your TT2?


The RME is very competitive and competent. If I didn’t have the TT2, I would always be left wondering if it’s that much better. I would’ve eventually upgraded anyway, but that’s just me chasing the ultimate in sound. With that said, I’m not sure you really need too. Doing a side by side comparison, I can’t honestly say the TT2 is worth 4 times the price of the RME. The TT2 is technically superior but I’m a fan of the RME for different reasons.

 The TT2 is an upper tier product. It’s refined, incredibly detailed and incisive. The TT2 is more transparent, music has more depth to it, and it’s more resolving. The TT2 pulls every ounce of detail from the music and has faster transients. The RME has character and gets you involved in the music. It’s like coming home from a long business trip and being greeted by your wife and kids, it’s so welcoming. Sometimes you just want to enjoy the music and the RME lets you do that. 

It’s easier for me to say that the better upgrade is from the TT to the TT2. Than it is for me to recommend the TT2 over the RME. They present sound so differently and they are in two separate price categories. I like them both. I got them a week apart from each other to see which one I should keep. I got the TT2 first. If I had purchased the RME first, I don’t know if I would’ve gotten the TT2. It’s that good....


----------



## Progisus

Slim1970 said:


> The RME is very competitive and competent. If I didn’t have the TT2, I would always be left wondering if it’s that much better. I would’ve eventually upgraded anyway, but that’s just me chasing the ultimate in sound. With that said, I’m not sure you really need too. Doing a side by side comparison, I can’t honestly say the TT2 is worth 4 times the price of the RME. The TT2 is technically superior but I’m a fan of the RME for different reasons.
> 
> The TT2 is an upper tier product. It’s refined, incredibly detailed and incisive. The TT2 is more transparent, music has more depth to it, and it’s more resolving. The TT2 pulls every ounce of detail from the music and has faster transients. The RME has character and gets you involved in the music. It’s like coming home from a long business trip and being greeted by your wife and kids, it’s so welcoming. Sometimes you just want to enjoy the music and the RME lets you do that.
> 
> It’s easier for me to say that the better upgrade is from the TT to the TT2. Than it is for me to recommend the TT2 over the RME. They present sound so differently and they are in two separate price categories. I like them both. I got them a week apart from each other to see which one I should keep. I got the TT2 first. If I had purchased the RME first, I don’t know if I would’ve gotten the TT2. It’s that good....


Thanks for your detailed reply. The traits of the TT2 you describe are how I feel the TT compares to the H2. The H2 seems to have a bit more detail but the TT is more refined, transparent with depth and feels like there is always power available. I use HQPlayer so the WTA1 filters and associated tap length are bypassed which really leaves one with the noise shaper and outputs. Here the TT seems to be above the H2 but I would think the TT2 would be much better. I’m not sure it is worth the upgrade money. 

With the RME I am mainly using the iem output which is superb. I am feeding it with HQP also at DSD256.


----------



## XUPX

Slim1970 said:


> The Diana Phi’s sounds under powered when driven directly out of both. They need some power to sound their best. Either one of them in DAC mode connected to a power amp will get you better results. I have the RME connected to my Burson Timekeeper, connected to an HE-Adapter. I’ve never heard the Diana Phi’s and my Susvara sound so good.
> 
> The RME as a preamp is stellar and I prefer it over the Hugo 2 in that regard. The RME as a headphone amp gets the nod as well over the Hugo 2. The RME is more musical and works with a wider variety of headphones. Like I said before, it probably has the best SE output that I’ve heard on a amp. Add in the adjustments and tweaks you can do with the RME and that makes it very hard to beat.
> 
> The Hugo 2 has the flexibility of being a transportable. So, it serves a different purpose. I also like the Hugo 2 as a DAC/amp for darker sounding headphones and tube amps. It’s brighter, transparent nature offsets their warmth for the ultimate blend of musicality.


Very interesting. 

I think you may have sealed the fate of the Hugo...
I might order an amp, probably the Topping A90 that seems powerful and very clean. Then the decision is the Topping D90 or the RME.


----------



## Slim1970

Progisus said:


> Thanks for your detailed reply. The traits of the TT2 you describe are how I feel the TT compares to the H2. The H2 seems to have a bit more detail but the TT is more refined, transparent with depth and feels like there is always power available. I use HQPlayer so the WTA1 filters and associated tap length are bypassed which really leaves one with the noise shaper and outputs. Here the TT seems to be above the H2 but I would think the TT2 would be much better. I’m not sure it is worth the upgrade money.
> 
> With the RME I am mainly using the iem output which is superb. I am feeding it with HQP also at DSD256.


It's a tough call. If you're a Chord fan it doesn't get much better than the TT2. I plan on adding an MScaler. Once that is done, my front end will be complete. I see no reason to upgrade after that. The only way I would get a Dave is if I was planning to build a 2-Channel stereo setup.

The RME's IEM and SE outputs are simply phenomenal. If the ADI-2 FS could somehow be packaged in a portable unit, RME would dominate head-fi. Of course, this is just my opinion after demoing so much gear.


----------



## betula

Slim1970 said:


> The RME is very competitive and competent. If I didn’t have the TT2, I would always be left wondering if it’s that much better. I would’ve eventually upgraded anyway, but that’s just me chasing the ultimate in sound. With that said, I’m not sure you really need too. Doing a side by side comparison, I can’t honestly say the TT2 is worth 4 times the price of the RME. The TT2 is technically superior but I’m a fan of the RME for different reasons.
> 
> The TT2 is an upper tier product. It’s refined, incredibly detailed and incisive. The TT2 is more transparent, music has more depth to it, and it’s more resolving. The TT2 pulls every ounce of detail from the music and has faster transients. The RME has character and gets you involved in the music. It’s like coming home from a long business trip and being greeted by your wife and kids, it’s so welcoming. Sometimes you just want to enjoy the music and the RME lets you do that.
> 
> It’s easier for me to say that the better upgrade is from the TT to the TT2. Than it is for me to recommend the TT2 over the RME. They present sound so differently and they are in two separate price categories. I like them both. I got them a week apart from each other to see which one I should keep. I got the TT2 first. If I had purchased the RME first, I don’t know if I would’ve gotten the TT2. It’s that good....


I agree with these observations regarding the ADI2, TT and TT2.


Progisus said:


> Thanks for your detailed reply. The traits of the TT2 you describe are how I feel the TT compares to the H2. The H2 seems to have a bit more detail but the TT is more refined, transparent with depth and feels like there is always power available. I use HQPlayer so the WTA1 filters and associated tap length are bypassed which really leaves one with the noise shaper and outputs. Here the TT seems to be above the H2 but I would think the TT2 would be much better. I’m not sure it is worth the upgrade money.
> 
> With the RME I am mainly using the iem output which is superb. I am feeding it with HQP also at DSD256.


The TT2 is more refined, more detailed and more spacious than the TT while sharing the same tonality. Only you can decide whether the upgrade is financially worth it for you.
The RME is different sounding to the Chord DACs (punchier and more 'studio-like'), and exceptional value for money. The TT2 sounds better (more lifelike, more nuanced) than the RME but definitely not 4 times better. With the TT2 you are paying for high-end refinement which doesn't come cheap.


----------



## Slim1970

XUPX said:


> Very interesting.
> 
> I think you may have sealed the fate of the Hugo...
> I might order an amp, probably the Topping A90 that seems powerful and very clean. Then the decision is the Topping D90 or the RME.


The Hugo 2 is very, very good. It really just comes down to how you're going to use it. If you plan on being mobile as well as using it at home with easy to drive headphones then it's a winner. If you're planning on using it more as a table top unit, then you'll need an additional amp with more power and drive. The Hugo 2 is still an incredible DAC. The RME is just a better all-in-one solution because I like its amp section more, but it's not a transportable unit.


----------



## Slim1970

betula said:


> I agree with these observations regarding the ADI2, TT and TT2.
> The TT2 is more refined, more detailed and more spacious than the TT while sharing the same tonality. Only you can decide whether the upgrade is financially worth it for you.
> The RME is different sounding to the Chord DACs (punchier and more 'studio-like'), and exceptional value for money. The TT2 sounds better (more lifelike, more nuanced) than the RME but definitely not 4 times better. With the TT2 you are paying for high-end refinement which doesn't come cheap.


Yep, if you want the best then the TT2 is it, but it's going to cost you. The RME ADI-2 FS is a great alternative.


----------



## Progisus

Slim1970 said:


> Yep, if you want the best then the TT2 is it, but it's going to cost you. The RME ADI-2 FS is a great alternative.


My system is headed up by an Antipodes EX server running roon. I just moved a NUC next to the RME. Loaded it with HQPlayer and went usb into the RME. With a sinc-ext2 filter 768k upsamping and LSN15 noise shaper it moves the RME to another level. I've put the TT in a drawer and will use the cash for some other upgrade.

I had an mscaler which I used with the H2. I found HQPlayer sounded very close and decided to sell it and put the cash into a good server which could also run HQP.

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Slim1970

Progisus said:


> My system is headed up by an Antipodes EX server running roon. I just moved a NUC next to the RME. Loaded it with HQPlayer and went usb into the RME. With a sinc-ext2 filter 768k upsamping and LSN15 noise shaper it moves the RME to another level. I've put the TT in a drawer and will use the cash for some other upgrade.
> 
> I had an mscaler which I used with the H2. I found HQPlayer sounded very close and decided to sell it and put the cash into a good server which could also run HQP.
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


Nice! Good to hear you were able to reallocate those funds. I need to do something similar. I’ve got a lot of overlapping gear. Especially now with RME in the mix. It can replace a few of my amps on its own.


----------



## XUPX

Slim1970 said:


> The Hugo 2 is very, very good. It really just comes down to how you're going to use it. If you plan on being mobile as well as using it at home with easy to drive headphones then it's a winner. If you're planning on using it more as a table top unit, then you'll need an additional amp with more power and drive. The Hugo 2 is still an incredible DAC. The RME is just a better all-in-one solution because I like its amp section more, but it's not a transportable unit.


I don't plan on being mobile, and I really do like the Hugo 2. But like you said, it just doesn't have the power to run my Diana's. And if I sell it I can buy a Topping D90/A90 combo or an RME/A90 combo that would have ample power for my cans. 
If it made sense for me to keep them both right now, I would. I'm not there yet, so for now I'll let the H2 go.


----------



## betula

XUPX said:


> I don't plan on being mobile, and I really do like the Hugo 2. But like you said, it just doesn't have the power to run my Diana's. And if I sell it I can buy a Topping D90/A90 combo or an RME/A90 combo that would have ample power for my cans.
> If it made sense for me to keep them both right now, I would. I'm not there yet, so for now I'll let the H2 go.


To me buying and selling is somewhat part of the fun; even if sometimes you repurchase the same gear or you are unsatisfied with the performance of the new gear after unboxing. It is simply impossible to audition everything you are interested in and getting something new always brings excitement. 
Of course with this approach you must be careful and smart if you don't want to burn too much cash. I usually have the patience to wait for a good deal, so my loss/gain balance is around zero but this is not necessarily easy to achieve unless you are patient and price conscious with relatively good negotiation skills.


----------



## XUPX

betula said:


> To me buying and selling is somewhat part of the fun; even if sometimes you repurchase the same gear or you are unsatisfied with the performance of the new gear after unboxing. It is simply impossible to audition everything you are interested in and getting something new always brings excitement.
> Of course with this approach you must be careful and smart if you don't want to burn too much cash. I usually have the patience to wait for a good deal, so my loss/gain balance is around zero but this is not necessarily easy to achieve unless you are patient and price conscious with relatively good negotiation skills.


Oh lol. I strongly agree!
I bought and sold the HD800 3 times (and had the HD800S too at some point). I get it


----------



## G8torbyte (May 25, 2020)

VRacer-111 said:


> closed back modded HD58X, or modded Koss Porta Pros.
> 
> Foobar2K:
> 55Hz, +3
> ...



I used to do EQ adjustments with Foobar but it seems software-based EQ introduces noise.  Foobar is still my primary music player but I do not enable EQ on it since I noticed a slight whistling noise on the low frequencies.  Now I let the RME do all the EQ adjustments and run the output XLR out to the THX amp which let's it all go through clearly and clean.
The HD58X Jubilees are one of the best bargain Sennheisers IMO.  How did you mod them?


----------



## VRacer-111

G8torbyte said:


> I used to do EQ adjustments with Foobar but it seems software-based EQ introduces noise.  Foobar is still my primary music player but I do not enable EQ on it since I noticed a slight whistling noise on the low frequencies.  Now I let the RME do all the EQ adjustments and run the output XLR out to the THX amp which let's it all go through clearly and clean.
> The HD58X Jubilees are one of the best bargain Sennheisers IMO.  How did you mod them?



Haven't really noticed any issues with the EQ on Foobar, guess i could just transfer those two bands over to the ADI-2 DAC though.

As for the HD58X mods, see this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...ew-measurements.867972/page-279#post-15269494


----------



## Slaphead

G8torbyte said:


> *I used to do EQ adjustments with Foobar but it seems software-based EQ introduces noise.*  Foobar is still my primary music player but I do not enable EQ on it since I noticed a slight whistling noise on the low frequencies.  Now I let the RME do all the EQ adjustments and run the output XLR out to the THX amp which let's it all go through clearly and clean.
> The HD58X Jubilees are one of the best bargain Sennheisers IMO.  How did you mod them?



Hate to break it to you, but the RME's EQ is, wait for it, software based. It might use a FPGA to perform the EQ, but it's still software based.

The quality of SW based EQ is not down to the fact that it's software, but down to the algorithm used. Most if not all music today and remastered older recordings have been EQ'd in the studio using software.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Slaphead said:


> Hate to break it to you, but the RME's EQ is, wait for it, software based. It might use a FPGA to perform the EQ, but it's still software based.
> 
> The quality of SW based EQ is not down to the fact that it's software, but down to the algorithm used. Most if not all music today and remastered older recordings have been EQ'd in the studio using software.



Is the Loki hardware based?


----------



## Slaphead

CaptainFantastic said:


> Is the Loki hardware based?



What, you mean that thing from Schitt - yes it's analog and therefore hardware I suppose.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> Is the Loki hardware based?



It's not hardware based. It's _actual _analog hardware


----------



## G8torbyte (May 26, 2020)

Slaphead said:


> Hate to break it to you, but the RME's EQ is, wait for it, software based. It might use a FPGA to perform the EQ, but it's still software based.
> The quality of SW based EQ is not down to the fact that it's software, but down to the algorithm used. Most if not all music today and remastered older recordings have been EQ'd in the studio using software.


No problem, thanks for the explanation,  I should have stated my experience with anomalies in EQ'ing were from some software products running on Windows platform.  RME's programming is working very well for me and I appreciate the fine adjustments it allows.   Also glad they provide regular firmware support/updates.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

There are engineering tradeoffs in everything. DSP is nice because it's in the digital domain and you can do things totally impossible or impractical in the analog domain. OTOH DSP is totally out of the picture in an analog chain so each has its own place. And analog anything is inherently lossy and adds some kind of distortion whether you can hear it or not.

For our discussion (RME DAC) DSP is the way to go.


----------



## Slim1970

gimmeheadroom said:


> There are engineering tradeoffs in everything. DSP is nice because it's in the digital domain and you can do things totally impossible or impractical in the analog domain. OTOH DSP is totally out of the picture in an analog chain so each has its own place. And analog anything is inherently lossy and adds some kind of distortion whether you can hear it or not.
> 
> For our discussion (RME DAC) DSP is the way to go.


I'm getting very good results using the EQ in the RME. I was primarily using the Loki before I got the RME. So to me, they both seem to have their place as I find them both to very functional in my different setups.


----------



## Swisshead (May 27, 2020)

I also own the RME ADI-2. An absolutely outstanding unit! Price/performance unbeaten. There are 1 million possible settings. Bass/Trebel controls, Loundness, EQ, everything your heart desires. The EQ is very good, so you can eliminate possible weaknesses with certain headphones.

Power more than enough. Think is a very neutral amplifier. I've looked at many, even in a much higher price range, but haven't found one I would buy right now. I've looked at the new Burson, but I don't think it's worth the double price. What I would still like to have is a good tube amp. But I don't know what to pick, there's a lot of choices. Again the advantage of the RME is that you can use it as a converter.

But I am more than satisfied with the sound with all my headphones. More would be luxury.

I think the problem with RME is that they don't have a "name" on high end and they are more for professional studios. Also optically rather study and not home hifi. But everyone who has it, raves about it. But in the high-end circles in Europe you don't read anything about it. There it must cost many thousands of dollars and have a good sounding name! Unfortunately it is so.


----------



## High flier

I got mine this morning. It sounds amazing I wonder if the DAC need burn in?


----------



## Slim1970

High flier said:


> I got mine this morning. It sounds amazing I wonder if the DAC need burn in?


Not sure, but I'm burning mine in along with the new Audio-Technica ATH-AWKT's I just got at the same time with some pink noise.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

If you can hear the burn-in on solid state devices you have a bright future in high-end audio sales


----------



## Slim1970

gimmeheadroom said:


> If you can hear the burn-in on solid state devices you have a bright future in high-end audio sales


Lol, I just hit play and leave them playing while I’m at work. I’m not sure that it’s actually doing anything, but I’m accumulating hours on it either way as I see it.


----------



## Tuneslover

Slim1970 said:


> Lol, I just hit play and leave them playing while I’m at work. I’m not sure that it’s actually doing anything, but I’m accumulating hours on it either way as I see it.


That's what I do too.  I figure it can't hurt to let them "warm-up/break-in" for a while before getting overly excited on how things sound straight out of the box.  I do periodic auditioning during the break in period and do notice that things sound more stabilized afterwards.  Not sure if it's brain burn-in too...LOL!


----------



## High flier

> Slim1970 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, I just hit play and leave them playing while I’m at work. I’m not sure that it’s actually doing anything, but I’m accumulating hours on it either way as I see it.
> > Its already sound so clear but ill leave it on maybe sound even better


----------



## Slaphead (May 28, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> If you can hear the burn-in on solid state devices you have a bright future in high-end audio sales



I can - it starts with a funny acrid smell, followed by some hissing, and then culminating in a pop or bang, after which there is nothing more to be heard.


----------



## Xoon

Hi Guys,

I been looking about this DAC/AMP for months. Recently I've sold my NFB11.28 and I'm going to probably buy this. Is the AMP section good enough? I've always felt that with High Impedance headphones the NFB11.28 was kind of weak (HD800/HD600). When I paired NFB11.28 with Asgard 3 it performed amazing. so I'm trying to figure out if using this with Vali2/A3 is good pairing or is it a waste of money and i'm better off with just a DAC only?


----------



## dakchi

Hi,
Interested in this DAC. However, I am wondering, as a DAC only, what is the difference between ADI-2 FS and ADI-2 DAC FS (a part from the screen)?
Has anyone compared ADI-2 DAC FS with Denafrips Ares II? again I am interested only in the DAC performance
Thanks


----------



## Tuneslover

When I was researching a DAC upgrade I was planning on using the XLR and SE outputs from that DAC to pass on to my external amps.  Initially when I became vey interested with the RME ADI-2 DAC I didn't even realize that this unit had a built in amp.  I now own the RME DAC and yes I have auditioned it's amp but only out of curiosity.  I do appreciate the IEM output and will probably focus on it.  The RME amp sounds pretty decent actually but for now I'm sticking with my standalone amps.


----------



## Phoniac

dakchi said:


> Interested in this DAC. However, I am wondering, as a DAC only, what is the difference between ADI-2 FS and ADI-2 DAC FS (a part from the screen)?



Quite obviously the FS doesn't have USB. And no DSP for all kinds of processing.


----------



## InstantSilence

Recently got a Hugo 2. While having moved out from rme adi-2 dac fs. 
The Hugo 2 has much more increased detail, resolution and clarity. 
I thought I'd miss the eq and tone control of rme as I was always adjusting something, but Hugo2 gets it right never bright. With the 4z,a nice match indeed. 
I do however miss the rme spectrum screen. And for price to performance rme dominates the Hugo 2.
But if sound was the only thing that mattered the Hugo 2 is a few miles ahead, at least to me.


----------



## Slim1970

InstantSilence said:


> Recently got a Hugo 2. While having moved out from rme adi-2 dac fs.
> The Hugo 2 has much more increased detail, resolution and clarity.
> I thought I'd miss the eq and tone control of rme as I was always adjusting something, but Hugo2 gets it right never bright. With the 4z,a nice match indeed.
> I do however miss the rme spectrum screen. And for price to performance rme dominates the Hugo 2.
> But if sound was the only thing that mattered the Hugo 2 is a few miles ahead, at least to me.


I have them both as well. The RME can be made to sound better than the Hugo 2 with the 4z's with adjustments of course. You're right about one thing. The Hugo 2 is more pure in its presentation. You don't have to worry about any adjustments, just plug and play for excellent sound.


----------



## InstantSilence

Slim1970 said:


> I have them both as well. The RME can be made to sound better than the Hugo 2 with the 4z's with adjustments of course. You're right about one thing. The Hugo 2 is more pure in its presentation. You don't have to worry about any adjustments, just plug and play for excellent sound.


Don't you find overall clarity, resolution, transparency, detail better on H2? I immediately noticed it all on first track. 
Even Tidal is better


----------



## Slim1970

InstantSilence said:


> Don't you find overall clarity, resolution, transparency, detail better on H2? I immediately noticed it all on first track.
> Even Tidal is better


Absolutely, it is. But they are both enjoyable.


----------



## betula (May 31, 2020)

InstantSilence said:


> Don't you find overall clarity, resolution, transparency, detail better on H2? I immediately noticed it all on first track.
> Even Tidal is better


I can't compare the H2 and the RME directly, but about two years ago I had a Hugo2 for a few weeks with me and I loved it. I also used to own the Mojo and the TT2. I generally like Chord sound. From memory the H2 was very detailed and well balanced.
What I like in the RME is the extra dynamism, slam and bass quantity. Chord devices are somewhat more refined and more lifelike in general, but not as punchy and 'bassy' as the RME. With electronic music the RME is a joy. With acoustic I would probably go with Chord.
I wish I could directly compare the RME and the H2. I am actually getting so curious, I might buy a secondhand H2 to see which one I would prefer now.
That said, I don't really need a transportable and battery powered device, regardless how fabulous Chord stuff sounds.
And the RME is absolutely insane value for money, for sure.

If Chord put a headphone out on the Qutest or came up with a similar device, that would probably be a tough call.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

+1 about not wanting a battery powered device despite liking the Chord sound. And Chord means no MQA...


----------



## Swisshead

With RME you always have to see the price. It's simply unique, what's offered for the money, plus Made in Germany in excellent quality.

What I really appreciate is like a Swiss Army pocket knife. You can really do everything with it and everything possible and impossible can be adjusted. That's what I appreciate. The amplifier is also excellent, certainly not by far the most powerful, so the iCan offers me much more power, but is definitely enough for 90% of all headphones. In addition, there is an IEM output. It doesn't rustle, doesn't make any noise and has many finesses, which it reveals only at the second glance.

One of them is the automatic recognition of which outputs are used. If you plug in headphones, the volume increases very slowly from ZERO. If it is set too high, you can still react before your ears blow up. Just happened to me yesterday. I was able to unplug it quickly. 

If you have the headphones on and turn the unit on, you can't hear anything! With the iFi you always hear a very strong crackling in your ears! Partly very unpleasant. You can see from such details that they have put a lot of thought into the development. Once again, the basic device was a pure studio device, which is actually a somewhat slimmed down version for the consumer sector. Therefore, also optically rather cool, function clearly before design. You can see that. It looks great in the office, but in the living room I'd probably put more emphasis on design. Chord clearly offers more to the eye! That is so. Here you have a clearly technically oriented device.


----------



## betula

Swisshead said:


> With RME you always have to see the price. It's simply unique, what's offered for the money, plus Made in Germany in excellent quality.
> 
> What I really appreciate is like a Swiss Army pocket knife. You can really do everything with it and everything possible and impossible can be adjusted. That's what I appreciate. The amplifier is also excellent, certainly not by far the most powerful, so the iCan offers me much more power, but is definitely enough for 90% of all headphones. In addition, there is an IEM output. It doesn't rustle, doesn't make any noise and has many finesses, which it reveals only at the second glance.
> 
> ...


I agree. The RME's price to performance ratio is unbeatable. And the amount of engineering went into this unit is simply unmatched for this amount of money. RME is clearly and rightfully proud of it when they include a 70 page long booklet as users manual.

The iCan is a great amp, I had the joy of testing them. You are right though, you don't really need an additional amp with the ADI2 with 90% of the headphones unless you are after a different flavour. I am personally not a big fan of 'flavoured' sound, so trying to aim at the highest level of clarity.


----------



## Slim1970

betula said:


> I can't compare the H2 and the RME directly, but about two years ago I had a Hugo2 for a few weeks with me and I loved it. I also used to own the Mojo and the TT2. I generally like Chord sound. From memory the H2 was very detailed and well balanced.
> What I like in the RME is the extra dynamism, slam and bass quantity. Chord devices are somewhat more refined and more lifelike in general, but not as punchy and 'bassy' as the RME. With electronic music the RME is a joy. With acoustic I would probably go with Chord.
> I wish I could directly compare the RME and the H2. I am actually getting so curious, I might buy a secondhand H2 to see which one I would prefer now.
> That said, I don't really need a transportable and battery powered device, regardless how fabulous Chord stuff sounds.
> ...


What you just said it what gives the RME the edge in sound over the Hugo 2. Despite all the Hugo 2's innate traits, sometimes I find it lacks some musicality. It's just too straightforward with some headphones. The RME has a much better musical delivery and that's with every headphone I put through it so far.


----------



## betula (May 31, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> What you just said it what gives the RME the edge in sound over the Hugo 2. Despite all the Hugo 2's innate traits, sometimes I find it lacks some musicality. It's just too straightforward with some headphones. The RME has a much better musical delivery and that's with every headphone I put through it so far.


I am not sure if it is musicality. Perhaps musical intensity?


----------



## jkpenrose

Slim1970 said:


> What you just said it what gives the RME the edge in sound over the Hugo 2. Despite all the Hugo 2's innate traits, sometimes I find it lacks some musicality. It's just too straightforward with some headphones. The RME has a much better musical delivery and that's with every headphone I put through it so far.



Ive been evaluating dacs and pretty much have things nailed down to RME, Bifrost 2 or Qutest... All have great reputations, fans and slightly different use cases/value propositions and of course price points  

Interestingly they all eschew the common delta sigma implementation for their own secret sauce. 

I came across an interesting interview with Rob Watts of chord dacs about his design philosophy... 

He is focused on transients and timing cues, which he says our brain is way more sensitive to than frequency response or bit depth. 

Also says important to measure and listen becuase while 'measurements can tell you if something sounds bad, they can't tell you if something sounds good' because certain things we don't know how to measure - but they certainly impact sound quality... 

Pretty technical, but I found it very interesting...


----------



## Slim1970

betula said:


> I am not sure it is musicality. Perhaps musical intensity?


Possibly, I can't quite put my finger on it. The RME is definitely doing something different than the Hugo 2 that I appreciate a little bit more.


----------



## betula

jkpenrose said:


> Ive been evaluating dacs and pretty much have things nailed down to RME, Bifrost 2 or Qutest... All have great reputations, fans and slightly different use cases/value propositions and of course price points
> 
> Interestingly they all eschew the common delta sigma implementation for their own secret sauce.
> 
> ...



I never really followed graphs and measurements. They are only helpful to a limited extent. We all hear slightly differently. Just follow/buy what sounds best to your ears.


----------



## Slim1970

jkpenrose said:


> Ive been evaluating dacs and pretty much have things nailed down to RME, Bifrost 2 or Qutest... All have great reputations, fans and slightly different use cases/value propositions and of course price points
> 
> Interestingly they all eschew the common delta sigma implementation for their own secret sauce.
> 
> ...



Great interview. There's do denying the fact that Chord's DAC's are technically impressive. Rob has put a lot of engineering and design work into them to ensure you are getting the most transparent signal possible. He does all of the that without a separate amp section. That's quite the achievement.


----------



## jkpenrose

Slim1970 said:


> Great interview. There's do denying the fact that Chord's DAC's are technically impressive. Rob has put a lot of engineering and design work into them to ensure you are getting the most transparent signal possible. He does all of the that without a separate amp section. That's quite the achievement.



I haven't read about dac design in quite a while and it was interesting and educational to hear his approach, contrasted with RME and Jason at schitt... All excellent, well engineered products and seeking the same objective with different approaches...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I think it's quite a stretch to include Schiit in a discussion with Chord and RME. One of the three products definitely lives up to its name


----------



## Noobzilla (May 31, 2020)

Looks like I'm 90% getting the ADI-2 DAC FS for Meze Empyrean. I am planning to get Monoprice THX 887 amp for the 4 pin balanced output but a bit skeptical if I will really get improvement over plugging straight to the ADI-2's amp. Gonna do my research today.

edit: I considered Qutest but hard to beat ADI-2's price to performance ratio plus the EQ might be fun to play with.

@Slim1970 ha! Good to see you here.


----------



## betula

Noobzilla said:


> Looks like I'm 90% getting the ADI-2 DAC FS. I am planning to get Monoprice THX 887 amp for the 4 pin balanced output but a bit skeptical if I will really get improvement over plugging straight to the ADI-2's amp. Gonna do my research today.
> 
> @Slim1970 ha! Good to see you here.


I tried the THX-AAA789 with my RME ADI2. No benefits to my ears. With the amp in the chain the sound was somewhat thicker. Slightly more bass quantity but a hazier, less clear bass overall. Upper mids and treble had more body and slightly more space with the THX amp in the chain but again precision and clarity was lost. Overall adding the THX amp to me wasn't beneficial at all. Although I can see with certain taste and headphone pairings people might prefer it. Not me.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Noobzilla said:


> Looks like I'm 90% getting the ADI-2 DAC FS for Meze Empyrean. I am planning to get Monoprice THX 887 amp for the 4 pin balanced output but a bit skeptical if I will really get improvement over plugging straight to the ADI-2's amp. Gonna do my research today.
> 
> edit: I considered Qutest but hard to beat ADI-2's price to performance ratio plus the EQ might be fun to play with.
> 
> @Slim1970 ha! Good to see you here.



Is the XLR on the Monoprice THX amp balanced? The THX amp drop is selling is not.

It looks from the specs thaht the Empyreans should be easy to drive. Probably better to run right off the RME unless it doesn't have enough power for some reason.


----------



## mixman

My viewpoint on the RME is unless something blows it away as far as sound quality, it can justify it’s existence because it‘s functionality just blows everything else away especially at that price point and it would just be difficult for me to replace it. I would love to do a direct comparison with the RME, Hugo2 and the TT2. The couple of times I heard the Hugo2 I thought it a bit thin sounding, the TT2 was outstanding, but just not 4 times as much As the RME outstanding.

This thread goes to show how the sound of DAC’s are probably the most disputed items in the chain. I have seen some say the Bifrost blows away the RME, the Hugo2 has a lot better sq and many here will say they are all close on sq but different on musicality.


----------



## mixman

betula said:


> I tried the THX-AAA789 with my RME ADI2. No benefits to my ears. With the amp in the chain the sound was somewhat thicker. Slightly more bass quantity but a hazier, less clear bass overall. Upper mids and treble had more body and slightly more space with the THX amp in the chain but again precision and clarity was lost. Overall adding the THX amp to me wasn't beneficial at all. Although I can see with certain taste and headphone pairings people might prefer it. Not me.


I think the THX adds more air definitely more 3D to the soundstage and more ”musicality” over the RME’s internal amp. I don’t have a problem with clarity or detail.......using the top Mogami XLR cable.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

mixman said:


> My viewpoint on the RME is unless something blows it away as far as sound quality, it can justify it’s existence because it‘s functionality just blows everything else away especially at that price point



This is a great one-line description of RME rulership in the 1K DAC space.


----------



## betula

mixman said:


> I think the THX adds more air definitely more 3D to the soundstage and more ”musicality” over the RME’s internal amp. I don’t have a problem with clarity or detail.......using the top Mogami XLR cable.


I think it is headphone dependent. With the LCD2C and LCDX I didn't find the THX 789 to be an improvement, on the contrary.


----------



## mixman

betula said:


> I think it is headphone dependent. With the LCD2C and LCDX I didn't find the THX 789 to be an improvement, on the contrary.


I know I am going to hear it for this........That’s because Audeze do not have much air to begin with!


----------



## betula

mixman said:


> I know I am going to hear it for this........That’s because Audeze do not have much air to begin with!


Haha. I see where you are coming from, but I think that's not the case here. The THX amp to me just thickened up the sound basically on the expense of details, clarity, refinement, and dynamism. Made everything somewhat softer and warmer (which might be someone's preference) but on the expense of clarity and tightness.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (May 31, 2020)

betula said:


> Haha. I see where you are coming from, but I think that's not the case here. The THX amp to me just thickened up the sound basically on the expense of details, clarity, refinement, and dynamism. Made everything somewhat softer and warmer (which might be someone's preference) but on the expense of clarity and tightness.



Look at the cans in his sig and look what he sold. 

I'm running my LCD-3 off a Brooklyn DAC+ into a V280 balanced 

edited: not amps, cans!


----------



## mixman (May 31, 2020)

betula said:


> Haha. I see where you are coming from, but I think that's not the case here. The THX amp to me just thickened up the sound basically on the expense of details, clarity, refinement, and dynamism. Made everything somewhat softer and warmer (which might be someone's preference) but on the expense of clarity and tightness.



I agree that it is a touch softer, but I think the resolution is the same, just different presentations.


gimmeheadroom said:


> Look at the amps in his sig and look what he sold.
> 
> I'm running my LCD-3 off a Brooklyn DAC+ into a V280 balanced


Was thinking about the V280 and that would be an improvement over the THX.


----------



## 524419 (May 31, 2020)

Instead of selling an RME, buying a 5K plus DAC etc etc .......DO THIS





This DAC sounds phenomenal, up there  with anything at the 5K price point
Cost of capacitors 90 dollars.
Of course you can grab a $5K DAC and upgrade it too, but this is by far the best bang for your buck in all of audio as far as I am concerned.
Sound Quality is simply jaw dropping. Perfect mix of endless resolution, musicality, and layered 3D Soundstage.
I was looking to purchase a DMP-Z1 or a PS Audio DAC, but not after this mod.


----------



## Jon1323

mixman said:


> My viewpoint on the RME is unless something blows it away as far as sound quality, it can justify it’s existence because it‘s functionality just blows everything else away especially at that price point and it would just be difficult for me to replace it.


I ultimately came to the same conclusion. I've had the Hugo2 for 4 years and when I had to send it for repair back in December i picked up the RME. Long story short I heard some slight differences between the two upon comparison but, I had to be A/B'ing them to tell and im not even sure I can put a finger on what those differences are exactly. Unless you need portability IMO the Hugo2 isn't worth double the price of the RME. Don't get me wrong I love my Hugo2 but the RME is amazing, even more so now that I've begun playing with the EQ.


----------



## Noobzilla

gimmeheadroom said:


> Is the XLR on the Monoprice THX amp balanced? The THX amp drop is selling is not.
> 
> It looks from the specs thaht the Empyreans should be easy to drive. Probably better to run right off the RME unless it doesn't have enough power for some reason.



Just read that the Monoprice THX 887 is pretty much like the Drop 789 that both are not fully balanced. Huh now I'm thinking I might just go with plain ADI-2 and not bother with another amp.


----------



## Slim1970

Noobzilla said:


> Just read that the Monoprice THX 887 is pretty much like the Drop 789 that both are not fully balanced. Huh now I'm thinking I might just go with plain ADI-2 and not bother with another amp.


You should definitely start there.


----------



## Cevisi

Does anyone have experience with the rme and dt 1990 is it a good match ?


----------



## jkpenrose

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think it's quite a stretch to include Schiit in a discussion with Chord and RME. One of the three products definitely lives up to its name



Maybe 😂. And the RME has great reviews and a ton of features and is really in a different class in that regard. 

But, I also have a lot of respect for torq who likes and owns products from all 3 - his favorite is chord Dave with m-scaler - but that's a little rarefied for me!


----------



## jkpenrose

betula said:


> I never really followed graphs and measurements. They are only helpful to a limited extent. We all hear slightly differently. Just follow/buy what sounds best to your ears.


Exactly


----------



## CaptainFantastic

For Line-Out, how many of you keep Auto-Ref on?


----------



## gimmeheadroom (May 31, 2020)

jkpenrose said:


> Maybe 😂. And the RME has great reviews and a ton of features and is really in a different class in that regard.
> 
> But, I also have a lot of respect for torq who likes and owns products from all 3 - his favorite is chord Dave with m-scaler - but that's a little rarefied for me!



Ah yeah, I didn't mean to slight Chord. I should clarify I have a Mojo and am a fan of the Chord house sound. I think they're amazing devices but perhaps a little bit too far out there. Still, I'm glad to see a real UK audio company still in the competition.

I've got a couple of Schiit amps (Valhalla 2, Lyr 2) I bought display units at huge discounts, long story. A bit disappointed at some of the mass marketing things like tube sockets on PCB. Not really well made. And the few contacts I've had with the company have insured I'll not buy anything further from them.



CaptainFantastic said:


> For Line-Out, how many of you keep Auto-Ref on?



Not for me.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Slim1970 said:


> You should definitely start there.



Agreed. See how it drives your choice of cans. You can always get a second job and buy more amp later.



Cevisi said:


> Does anyone have experience with the rme and dt 1990 is it a good match ?



No, but based on my dissatisfaction with how the RME deals with 300 ohm Sennheisers which are around the same sensitivity and with a bit higher impedance I'm thinking they will sound very good but not as good as they are capable of. However, that will probably be offset by the huge benefit of parametric EQ with Beyers since they are not the flattest headphones on earth...


----------



## 340519

Diet Kokaine said:


> Instead of selling an RME, buying a 5K plus DAC etc etc .......DO THIS
> 
> 
> This DAC sounds phenomenal, up there  with anything at the 5K price point
> ...


Dear lord man.


----------



## InstantSilence

Slim1970 said:


> You should definitely start there.


What does your eq on rme look like for the 4z?


----------



## Slim1970

InstantSilence said:


> What does your eq on rme look like for the 4z?


I’ll send it to you in a DM


----------



## gimmeheadroom

dmdm said:


> Dear lord man.



Yeah. Part of me thinks he and Matthias must have been mortal enemies in kindergarten.


----------



## XUPX

Noobzilla said:


> Just read that the Monoprice THX 887 is pretty much like the Drop 789 that both are not fully balanced. Huh now I'm thinking I might just go with plain ADI-2 and not bother with another amp.


If you really want to add an amp, I'm pretty sure that the new Topping A90 is fully balanced. You might want to look there (haven't heard it, just considering at this point).


----------



## 340519

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah. Part of me thinks he and Matthias must have been mortal enemies in kindergarten.


Lol.


----------



## Noobzilla

XUPX said:


> If you really want to add an amp, I'm pretty sure that the new Topping A90 is fully balanced. You might want to look there (haven't heard it, just considering at this point).


Thanks for the suggestion. I'll read into it. 

Has good review here. I wonder about their D90 DAC too.


----------



## dakchi

Hi
I read so many pages of this thread to figure out whether ADI-2 DAC is what I am looking for as a dac for my hifu setup. Unfortunately, most of you use it with headphones. I almost haven’t any feedback on how it performs with speakers. Has anyone tried it with speakers and stereo amp and can feedback ?
Thanks


----------



## Tuneslover

CaptainFantastic said:


> For Line-Out, how many of you keep Auto-Ref on?


Mine is off.


----------



## Noobzilla

dakchi said:


> Hi
> I read so many pages of this thread to figure out whether ADI-2 DAC is what I am looking for as a dac for my hifu setup. Unfortunately, most of you use it with headphones. I almost haven’t any feedback on how it performs with speakers. Has anyone tried it with speakers and stereo amp and can feedback ?
> Thanks



I do not have the ADI-2 DAC but I had played with headphones DAC into my stereo amplifier. My observation is if that DAC performs better than my other DAC using headphones, the result is also true when used for speakers. I initially had Peachtree DECCO amp for stereo but both my headphone DACs were significantly better. I upgraded to Peachtree Nova 150 which is better than the DECCO's DAC but my Chord Mojo still gives slightly better sound than the Nova 150.


----------



## darmccombs

dakchi said:


> Hi
> I read so many pages of this thread to figure out whether ADI-2 DAC is what I am looking for as a dac for my hifu setup. Unfortunately, most of you use it with headphones. I almost haven’t any feedback on how it performs with speakers. Has anyone tried it with speakers and stereo amp and can feedback ?
> Thanks


I use one of my RME ADI-2 in my home system with full size speakers.  The RME acts as a DAC only.  I have a BlueSound Node 2i that goes into the RME, then the RME goes into my Denon Receiver.  The RME beat my old Mytek 192 DSD Dac.  The RME has more depth and definition than the Node 2i or the Mytek have.  It was a terrific upgrade.

As a bonus, I have a 10ft headphone cable so I can listen to my headphones in that room as well.  The RME does a great job pulling double duty (speakers or headphones).


----------



## Swisshead

https://www.themasterswitch.com/best-dacs


----------



## XUPX

Swisshead said:


> https://www.themasterswitch.com/best-dacs


I love that the DAC chip is "unknown "... it's not even hard to find on the RME website.


----------



## technobear (Jun 1, 2020)

dakchi said:


> I almost haven’t any feedback on how it performs with speakers. Has anyone tried it with speakers and stereo amp and can feedback ?


The ADI-2 DAC is the heart of my PC/AV system. It's fed by a Quiet PC (via iGalvanic) and a Panasonic PVR (optical). Line out goes to an XTZ Edge A2-300 power amp and Mark Audo SOTA Cesti MB speakers. I use the PEQ in the RME to notch out the two main 'room boom' frequencies and to add a slight warmth contour to the sound. The result is amazing. I am very happy with the sound I get from this system on both music and movies/TV.

The headphone output is good too. I thnk it's neck and neck with my iFi micro gear and more flexible. It lets me correct the somewhat quiet treble in the LCD-X or tame the sometimes noticeable treble peak in the T1 while adding a little more low bass. The crossfeed setting is also often useful.

Personally I think EQ and crossfeed are essential features of any headphone listening system. The RME is the only device at this price point that gives you both in such a flexible way. The iFi Audio micro stuff has it too but to a more limited degree. Some of the Jan Meier gear also has both but the EQ is limited. Other than that, these features are hard to find in headphone gear. SPL amps have crossfeed but no EQ. The Manley has EQ but no crossfeed. There are a couple of units by McIntosh and T+A that have both but they come at a truly obscene price as does the Pro iDSD + Pro iCAN combo.

For me, the RME is the King of DAC-Amps at the moment and has few if any challengers. It sure makes it hard to consider anything else.


----------



## kostas6a3

I'm thinking of changing my DAC (Audiolab M-DAC plus) with RME ADI-2 DAC or Soekris 1421. With that I will drive my Focal Solo 6e with Sub 6 directly. 
Is there a comparison between the two or is there another suggestion?
Kostas


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I love my Audiolab 8300CD and I know Audiolab knows how to do a good DAC implementation. I think when you start comparing top performing (not necessarily high end) DACs they are all going to sound great and in most cases not be that different. What starts to count for me at least is features and support. If the device is going to get firmware updates and has a support community it can have a long service lifetime. With pro gear you expect the software and firmware upgrades and of course the device to just work.

Neither RME nor Soekris do MQA.


----------



## Slim1970

Whoa!!!


----------



## 524419

dmdm said:


> Dear lord man.


If you could only listen to it. Dear Lord!!! describes it appropriately.


----------



## Swisshead

Slim1970 said:


> Whoa!!!


----------



## Slim1970

Swisshead said:


>


The i4’s perform like headphones. Out of the RME they sound so darn good. They do need some EQ in certain areas to open them up. Once dialed in, I’m not sure another IEM can best it.

I see you have the Pro iCan. I do miss the Xbass+.


----------



## Swisshead (Jun 2, 2020)

Yes, the i4 is by far the best in-ear there is, and better than any overear I have. Absolutely neutral sound, plays very clear, no harshness, nothing. Needs absolutely no EQ or anything else, is just perfect. I would never give it away again.

But it needs power. The RME is already enough, but with the iCan it takes another step forward. Yes, iFi with X-Bass and 3D is just wonderful! I love iFi devices! Perfectly manufactured, visually very nice and RME and iCan is simply a perfect combination! I don't want anything else and I am so happy!

I see you have Burson and Meze, also a absolut nice combination!!!


----------



## Slim1970

Swisshead said:


> Yes, the i4 is by far the best in-ear there is, and better than any overear I have. Absolutely neutral sound, plays very clear, no harshness, nothing. Needs absolutely no EQ or anything else, is just perfect. I would never give it away again.
> 
> But it needs power. The RME is already enough, but with the iCan it takes another step forward. Yes, iFi with X-Bass and 3D is just wonderful! I love iFi devices! Perfectly manufactured, visually very nice and RME and iCan is simply a perfect combination! I don't want anything else and I am so happy!
> 
> I see you have Burson and Meze, also a absolut nice combination!!!


The Meze was part of a loner tour I took part in. I really liked them, but they weren’t mine to keep unfortunately. I would love to own a pair. What’s crazy is the i4’s competes with them easily.


----------



## wazzupi

Slim1970 said:


> The Meze was part of a loner tour I took part in. I really liked them, but they weren’t mine to keep unfortunately. I would love to own a pair. What’s crazy is the i4’s competes with them easily.


I could never get the isines to stick or stay in my ear so I sold them. But I always did enjoy them for as long as I had em I imagine the i4 is no different unfortunately I went with the Sony ier z1r.


----------



## wazzupi

I've decided to pair my new audio Technica ath awtk with the new version of the rme adi 2 dac and an a90 from topping


----------



## Slim1970

wazzupi said:


> I could never get the isines to stick or stay in my ear so I sold them. But I always did enjoy them for as long as I had em I imagine the i4 is no different unfortunately I went with the Sony ier z1r.


Yeah, I haven't listened to these for awhile. When I went to put them, on the ear hook broke on the right earphone. Luckily, I had replacements for it. Once I got them and paired them with the RME the sound was so impressive. The i4's are better sounding than everything below their price point. They can almost match the performance of my TOTL headphones. The RME is so versatile.


----------



## Slim1970

wazzupi said:


> I've decided to pair my new audio Technica ath awtk with the new version of the rme adi 2 dac and an a90 from topping


How are you liking the sound of the pairing? I have the ATH-AWKT's as well that I'm breaking in. Straight out of the RME the sound is phenomenal.


----------



## wazzupi (Jun 2, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> How are you liking the sound of the pairing? I have the ATH-AWKT's as well that I'm breaking in. Straight out of the RME the sound is phenomenal.


I'll be receiving my rme Friday I love how the khadas board and a90 sound paired but I was getting ground loop it was pretty bad... so I  had to go balanced and decided on the rme.

I'd love to know what you think of the ath awkt because to me, they have the best mids ive heard on any hp and would easily be totl for anyone  if they didnt mind the bass-light nature(it's actually growing on me, it's way better bass than the hd800), but to me I'm looking for two hps at totl level a warmer/darker hp( for rock and metal and some hip hop) and a mid/vocal hp good treble/air I think I found a winner for #2 with the audio Technica. 

I'm looking at anything right now that sounds remotely good for rock etc atm rad-0, Odin are on my list.

PS the imaging soundstage macro and micro details are insane for a closed back, the resolution, clarity all come together to make a beautiful and musical journey . 

I prefer the soundstage of these to a hd800 any day.


----------



## Slim1970

wazzupi said:


> I'll be receiving my rme Friday I love how the khadas board and a90 sound paired but I was getting ground loop it was pretty bad... so I  had to go balanced and decided on the rme.
> 
> I'd love to know what you think of the ath awkt because to me, they have the best mids ive heard on any hp and would easily be totl for anyone  if they didnt mind the bass-light nature(it's actually growing on me, it's way better bass than the hd800), but to me I'm looking for two hps at totl level a warmer/darker hp( for rock and metal and some hip hop) and a mid/vocal hp good treble/air I think I found a winner for #2 with the audio Technica.
> 
> I'm looking at anything right now that sounds remotely good for rock etc atm rad-0, Odin are on my list.


The AWKT’s are growing on me as well. The bass is just right to my ears and when it’s elevated in the sound the AWKT’s have no problem displaying it. The mids and treble are probably the standout features on this headphone. The bass just ties the sound all together with without interfering with the rest of the frequency spectrum. When I listen to them on the RME, I do enhance the bass and some other areas with the PEQ. Now it’s probably the most balanced, detailed, open sounding closed back headphone I’ve heard.


----------



## wazzupi

Slim1970 said:


> The AWKT’s are growing on me as well. The bass is just right to my ears and when it’s elevated in the sound the AWKT’s have no problem displaying it. The mids and treble are probably the standout features on this headphone. The bass just ties the sound all together with without interfering with the rest of the frequency spectrum. When I listen to them on the RME, I do enhance the bass and some other areas with the PEQ. Now it’s probably the most balanced, detailed, open sounding closed back headphone I’ve heard.


yep only biggest issue is its really noisy(i can hear the cable touching stuff) when i move around, Im not sure if a new cable will fix that ? what do you think ?


----------



## hiImGrant

I’ve been interviewing this DAC for a couple days. I thought I would really be into the EQ features and was hoping to hear a noticeable improvement against my modi3. 

The chain is: tidal > spidf optical > ADI-2 > RNHP > aeon2 closed || LCD2C.

 I haven’t been A/B testing, I didn’t hear an immediate improvement/difference the same way my switch from a THX789 to the RNHP was by comparison, night and day.

I do have Some glaring issues though, like depending on the output volume of the dac there is clipping. Having to set up a dac to avoid clipping seems like a bug. This simply should not happen. Keeping the volume below -10, sometimes -14 fixes it. With a line out, making it possible to cause that kind of problem is, well, a problem imo. Maybe it’s the case of me just not being up to the task of understanding this piece of equipment. But I’m a software engineer and not someone unfamiliar with complexity. The menu system makes sense, the interface with each button/dial harkens back to AV receivers pre-OSD.

While this isn’t a DAC for me, it’s probably just better than my ears can hear. I’m waiting on a back ordered Bifrost2, and have a modius on the way to replace this in the meantime.


----------



## InstantSilence

hiImGrant said:


> I’ve been interviewing this DAC for a couple days. I thought I would really be into the EQ features and was hoping to hear a noticeable improvement against my modi3.
> 
> The chain is: tidal > spidf optical > ADI-2 > RNHP > aeon2 closed || LCD2C.
> 
> ...


It doesn't have the best sound stock. It's got musicality but not the best clarity, resolution and punch. Most love the features. 
I think it's a gadget that has 1st, features, and 2nd sound quality. 
Excelling with iems more so that hps. It's a great value, you'll hear, but sound is not bad... Just ok.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

hiImGrant said:


> I’ve been interviewing this DAC for a couple days. I thought I would really be into the EQ features and was hoping to hear a noticeable improvement against my modi3.
> 
> The chain is: tidal > spidf optical > ADI-2 > RNHP > aeon2 closed || LCD2C.
> 
> ...



I don't know about the Aeon but the LCD-2C ought to be driven directly out of the RME.

If you run the RME into an amp you need to know how to set the output levels properly and control volume at the amp, not with the DAC.


----------



## hiImGrant

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't know about the Aeon but the LCD-2C ought to be driven directly out of the RME.
> 
> If you run the RME into an amp you need to know how to set the output levels properly and control volume at the amp, not with the DAC.


It’s not, the RNHP is the Rupert Neve Headphone amp.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

hiImGrant said:


> It’s not, the RNHP is the Rupert Neve Headphone amp.



I know what it is. It should not be in the chain when evaluating the DAC.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

And you should install the RME driver packages (2 pieces IIRC) from the RME website so you get ASIO or at least WASAPI support for Windows and bypass Windows audio stack.


----------



## hiImGrant

gimmeheadroom said:


> I know what it is. It should not be in the chain when evaluating the DAC.


But I’m evaluating the DAC, not it’s amp. It’s amp is something I would never be interested in.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

hiImGrant said:


> But I’m evaluating the DAC, not it’s amp. It’s amp is something I would never be interested in.



Yeah but the RME amp is a good match for the LCD-2C and you could rule out setup issues you might be having.

Otherwise, you should turn off auto-ref and set a fixed output level and run it balanced into your headamp.


----------



## betula

hiImGrant said:


> I’ve been interviewing this DAC for a couple days. I thought I would really be into the EQ features and was hoping to hear a noticeable improvement against my modi3.
> 
> The chain is: tidal > spidf optical > ADI-2 > RNHP > aeon2 closed || LCD2C.
> 
> ...


Try the headphones straight from the RME. You don't _really_ need those amps with those headphones.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

betula said:


> Try the headphones straight from the RME. You don't _really_ need those amps with those headphones.



That's what I said. There is definitely something wrong here.


----------



## hiImGrant

gimmeheadroom said:


> And you should install the RME driver packages (2 pieces IIRC) from the RME website so you get ASIO or at least WASAPI support for Windows and bypass Windows audio stack.


Wow, also installed the driver, but also clearly state this is being fed over SPIDF. I’m not sure if you assume I’m incompetent or you didn’t actually read what I wrote but I actually understand how these things work lol.

I think the DAC isn’t for me, and I thought there were some issues worth bringing up in the thread. It’s pretty clear from what I wrote that it could be my ears, or my preferences. ability to screw this up is a mistake, not that I couldn’t figure out what the issue was and fix it, which I did and wrote about in my original post.


betula said:


> Try the headphones straight from the RME. You don't _really_ need those amps with those headphones


i mean, does anyone really need an amp beyond a schiit fulla?
This is such a wild thing to say, like what?! 

is this what mansplaining feels like? Huh, not great.

 This is my first post on this forum, I’ll try not to judge based on this as I’ve seen some nice threads where fewer assumptions are made.


----------



## betula

hiImGrant said:


> Wow, also installed the driver, but also clearly state this is being fed over SPIDF. I’m not sure if you assume I’m incompetent or you didn’t actually read what I wrote but I actually understand how these things work lol.
> 
> I think the DAC isn’t for me, and I thought there were some issues worth bringing up in the thread. It’s pretty clear from what I wrote that it could be my ears, or my preferences. ability to screw this up is a mistake, not that I couldn’t figure out what the issue was and fix it, which I did and wrote about in my original post.
> 
> ...


Chill out dude, everyone was trying to be helpful.


----------



## hiImGrant

betula said:


> Chill out dude, everyone was trying to be helpful.


I’m chill.

I appreciate helpful advice, It’s clear they didn’t read my original post and assumed I was “just doing it wrong”.


----------



## Tuneslover

hiImGrant said:


> I’ve been interviewing this DAC for a couple days. I thought I would really be into the EQ features and was hoping to hear a noticeable improvement against my modi3.
> 
> The chain is: tidal > spidf optical > ADI-2 > RNHP > aeon2 closed || LCD2C.
> 
> ...


I actually appreciate the gain/volume control of the RME DAC.  A poster a while back gave some good advice that has helped me (unless of course you already did this).

Set the Ref Level to OFF, then set the level to +7dBu.  Now adjust the volume of the RME to somewhere between -20 db to -10 db and then play with the volume on your standalone RNHP amp.  You may need to need to tweak the volume between your RME and your RNHP to get the most optimum relationship between them to avoid clipping.


----------



## betula

hiImGrant said:


> I’m chill.
> 
> I appreciate helpful advice, It’s clear they didn’t read my original post and assumed I was “just doing it wrong”.


My point by the way was that cheap amps like the RNHP or THX 789 only degrade sound quality out of the RME. They effectively bring distortion, which I don't deny, some might find pleasant. You need really good amps in case you want all the technicalities from the RME to shine through the amp.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Tuneslover said:


> I actually appreciate the gain/volume control of the RME DAC.  A poster a while back gave some good advice that has helped me (unless of course you already did this).
> 
> Set the Ref Level to OFF, then set the level to +7dBu.  Now adjust the volume of the RME to somewhere between -20 db to -10 db and then play with the volume on your standalone RNHP amp.  You may need to need to tweak the volume between your RME and your RNHP to get the most optimum relationship between them to avoid clipping.



I don't think this is reasonable or necessary. Yes, auto-ref level should be off. Then you use standard line out settings (I'm a few thousand km from my gear right now). There is no need to play with the volume knob. Line out is there for a reason. It's a standard.


----------



## hiImGrant

betula said:


> My point by the way was that cheap amps like the RNHP or THX 789 only degrade sound quality out of the RME. They effectively bring distortion, which I don't deny, some might find pleasant. You need really good amps in case you want all the technicalities from the RME to shine through the amp.


That makes sense, I have a Violectric v280 on the way (early July) so that may change my impressions.


----------



## Swisshead

Tuneslover said:


> I actually appreciate the gain/volume control of the RME DAC.  A poster a while back gave some good advice that has helped me (unless of course you already did this).
> 
> Set the Ref Level to OFF, then set the level to +7dBu.  Now adjust the volume of the RME to somewhere between -20 db to -10 db and then play with the volume on your standalone RNHP amp.  You may need to need to tweak the volume between your RME and your RNHP to get the most optimum relationship between them to avoid clipping.



I have almost the same attitude with the iCan.

Ref Level: OFF
+13 dBu
Volume between -5 to -15, depending on sensitivity Headphones
Volume at RME looked

In the display you can see it clearly with the level controls, or as you tell them. It should not go to the top stop, but should deflect at a maximum of 80%.


----------



## hiImGrant

Tuneslover said:


> I actually appreciate the gain/volume control of the RME DAC.  A poster a while back gave some good advice that has helped me (unless of course you already did this).
> 
> Set the Ref Level to OFF, then set the level to +7dBu.  Now adjust the volume of the RME to somewhere between -20 db to -10 db and then play with the volume on your standalone RNHP amp.  You may need to need to tweak the volume between your RME and your RNHP to get the most optimum relationship between them to avoid clipping.


Yeah, I essentially figured this out through trial and error. My issue is that a user who maybe wouldn’t spend the time to do this gets a very bad experience. I think the features in this DAC are for someone with needs beyond just listening to music, so not me. Or someone with more sound engineering experience


----------



## Tuneslover

betula said:


> Try the headphones straight from the RME. You don't _really_ need those amps with those headphones.


I haven't spent much time with the RME's headphone outputs because I bought this device purely for the DAC.  Although the RME's internal amp is ok, I find it lacks the imagining and soundstage that I get from my Schiit Jotunheim (balanced).  I have the Violectric V280 coming next month which I suspect will outperform the Jot.


----------



## Tuneslover

hiImGrant said:


> That makes sense, I have a Violectric v280 on the way (early July) so that may change my impressions.


LOL...did you snag one of the V280's from DROP.com too?


----------



## hiImGrant

Tuneslover said:


> LOL...did you snag one of the V280's from DROP.com too?


Yup, seems like something I would like. Warm signature with tank like construction


----------



## Tuneslover

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't think this is reasonable or necessary. Yes, auto-ref level should be off. Then you use standard line out settings (I'm a few thousand km from my gear right now). There is no need to play with the volume knob. Line out is there for a reason. It's a standard.


Please forgive me but I'm not sure I fully understand what you are saying *"no need to play with the volume knob, line out is there for a reason, it's standard"*.  I AM using the LINE OUT when I have the Ref Level set to OFF and then selecting the +7 dBu.  I'm still learning about the RME so maybe I'm confused.  To clarify, I am using the LINE OUT from the RME which passes the XLR output into my XLR input on my Jotunheim.  Am I messing up on how I'm understanding and using the RME (quiet possible...LOL)?


----------



## Tuneslover

hiImGrant said:


> Yup, seems like something I would like. Warm signature with tank like construction


My first serious standalone headphone amp was the Lake People G109S (which I still have and love) so I have a pretty good idea of the LP/Violectric house sound.  Of course the V200 amplifier became the "standard" that subsequent amps were built off of so I'm expecting a similar but better sound from the V280.  Can't wait to hear how it pairs with the RME DAC.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Tuneslover said:


> Please forgive me but I'm not sure I fully understand what you are saying *"no need to play with the volume knob, line out is there for a reason, it's standard"*.  I AM using the LINE OUT when I have the Ref Level set to OFF and then selecting the +7 dBu.  I'm still learning about the RME so maybe I'm confused.  To clarify, I am using the LINE OUT from the RME which passes the XLR output into my XLR input on my Jotunheim.  Am I messing up on how I'm understanding and using the RME (quiet possible...LOL)?



No, I'm sorry for not explaining this very well. And I will probably fail again as I try...

It seems to me there is a fixed level setting designed to be used with line out. I am far from my gear so I can't give a good explanation of what I'm talking about. Really the point is that you should be in line-out mode, with auto ref level off, and that will cause the DAC to put out a standard (max) level signal designed to be input to an amp. From them on you adjust the volume at the amp. You should not have to fiddle with the volume knob on the DAC to get the proper output level.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jun 3, 2020)

Tuneslover said:


> My first serious standalone headphone amp was the Lake People G109S (which I still have and love) so I have a pretty good idea of the LP/Violectric house sound.  Of course the V200 amplifier became the "standard" that subsequent amps were built off of so I'm expecting a similar but better sound from the V280.  Can't wait to hear how it pairs with the RME DAC.



I have a V280 but I run it off my Brooklyn DAC+  It's a superb amp with a big thread here on headfi.

My RME is used to drive LCD-2C or Fostex directly, or into a Lyr 2 for LCD-2C or 3F.


----------



## Tuneslover (Jun 3, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> No, I'm sorry for not explaining this very well. And I will probably fail again as I try...
> 
> It seems to me there is a fixed level setting designed to be used with line out. I am far from my gear so I can't give a good explanation of what I'm talking about. Really the point is that you should be in line-out mode, with auto ref level off, and that will cause the DAC to put out a standard (max) level signal designed to be input to an amp. From them on you adjust the volume at the amp. You should not have to fiddle with the volume knob on the DAC to get the proper output level.


Makes sense if there isn't a volume control on the DAC.  I had the Modi MB which gave a fixed line out signal which had no adjustment.  So I'm still confused as to what you mean by "the standard (max) level signal designed to be input to an amp".  If that occurs with the RME then why does my Jotunheim amp get louder and quieter if I adjust the volume knob on the RME?  Sorry if I'm not making sense, I'm still learning the functionality of the RME DAC.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jun 3, 2020)

Tuneslover said:


> Makes sense if there isn't a volume control on the DAC.  I had the Modi MB which gave a fixed line out signal which had no adjustment.  So I'm still confused as to what you mean by "the standard (max) level signal designed to be input to an amp".  If that occurs with the RME then why does my Jotunheim amp get louder and quieter if I adjust the volume knob on the RME?  Sorry if I'm not making sense, I'm still learning the functionality of the RME DAC.



Well-designed devices are designed so that levels match. Source devices are expected to be run at a standard max level and that level is expected as input to amps.

That way, the amp is driven at levels corresponding to its design parameters so distortion is minimized and signal to noise is maximized. Because all this is non-linear. If you change the volume at the source, the amp is not driven fully or it could clip.

Sure, if you adjust the volume knob on the source it will be louder or softer. But that's not the way it's designed to work when you run your DAC into an amp. The volume should be controlled at the amp. And having that work the best way possible requires that the amp gets the input signal (line level) from the input devices.

Really, you want to set up your DAC to the standard level as if it had no volume knob.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> Really, you want to set up your DAC to the standard level as if it had no volume knob.



Makes sense. 

So then how do you find this "standard level"? I have Auto-Ref OFF, Ref Level +7 dBu. I have my RME volume at -13 dB and Volume LOCKED because at this level I have the most natural range with my amp. When listening my amp volume knob is at 12 o'clock and I can adjust to 11 or 1 o'clock depending on the track. But I have no idea if this is the "standard level" for the DAC to be locked at, namely the -13 dB.

I found this thread which suggests that it is not that easy to find the right level for the DAC when in Line-Out. Am I right?

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=30626


----------



## hiImGrant

CaptainFantastic said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> So then how do you find this "standard level"? I have Auto-Ref OFF, Ref Level +7 dBu. I have my RME volume at -13 dB and Volume LOCKED because at this level I have the most natural range with my amp. When listening my amp volume knob is at 12 o'clock and I can adjust to 11 or 1 o'clock depending on the track. But I have no idea if this is the "standard level" for the DAC to be locked at, namely the -13 dB.
> 
> ...


To me, this is a design flaw. But I think you have the right idea of how to set it up. It’s how I have mine set up.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> So then how do you find this "standard level"? I have Auto-Ref OFF, Ref Level +7 dBu. I have my RME volume at -13 dB and Volume LOCKED because at this level I have the most natural range with my amp. When listening my amp volume knob is at 12 o'clock and I can adjust to 11 or 1 o'clock depending on the track. But I have no idea if this is the "standard level" for the DAC to be locked at, namely the -13 dB.
> 
> ...



I can't answer you without my RME in front of me. If I could see my settings I could remember. You should be able to find it in the RME doc though.

At first glance it might seem that if your amp volume knob is where you want it for comfortable listening then your input level is ok, but this could be misleading. How much range you have on your volume knob is a combination of how strong the input signal is and how sensitive your headphones are. Amps like the V280 have dip switches, other amps have low/med/high gain switches so that you drive them at correct input levels and you have the proper range of adjustment with the amp volume knob- for the specific set of cans you're listening to at the time.

If I understand that forum thread it is talking about connecting to a power amp rather than an integrated amp or headamp.


----------



## Tuneslover (Jun 3, 2020)

hiImGrant said:


> To me, this is a design flaw. But I think you have the right idea of how to set it up. It’s how I have mine set up.


Sorry @hilmGrant I mistakenly replied to you.  So Double Post.


----------



## Tuneslover

CaptainFantastic said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> So then how do you find this "standard level"? I have Auto-Ref OFF, Ref Level +7 dBu. I have my RME volume at -13 dB and Volume LOCKED because at this level I have the most natural range with my amp. When listening my amp volume knob is at 12 o'clock and I can adjust to 11 or 1 o'clock depending on the track. But I have no idea if this is the "standard level" for the DAC to be locked at, namely the -13 dB.
> 
> ...


What do you mean when you say that you have the volume LOCKED on your RME at -13dB? Are you saying that you don't adjust the RME volume now that you have it set at -13dB?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

If I remember correctly I have the RME set auto ref off and level locked at 0 dB. But I could be hallucinating due to the current situation


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Tuneslover said:


> What do you mean when you say that you have the volume LOCKED on your RME at -13dB? Are you saying that you don't adjust the RME volume now that you have it set at -13dB?



Correct. It's in the I/O menu. I use only my amp volume knob when using my external amp (Woo Audio WA3).


----------



## Tuneslover (Jun 3, 2020)

CaptainFantastic said:


> Correct. It's in the I/O menu. I use only my amp volume knob when using my external amp (Woo Audio WA3).


Sorry to be-labour this point but I'm still trying to understand the term LOCKED.  Are you saying that you are getting a FIXED volume being fed to your standalone amp?  Furthermore, when adjusting the volume knob on the RME, it has NO affect on the the volume coming out of your headphone from your standalone amp?  If that's the case then it's a true FIXED LINE OUT (like my Modi MB DAC and most other DAC's).  If that's the case how does one LOCK the RME into a FIXED LINE OUT?

Or are you using the term LOCKED as in you no longer use the RME's volume knob to adjust the volume of your headphones (because you're adjusting the volume with your standalone amp)?  However, functionally the RME volume knob would still increase/decrease the headphone volume.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Tuneslover said:


> So what happens when you adjust the volume knob on your RME?



Naturally nothing. It is locked. The volume could still be changed from the menu, but the point is that for Line Out purposes, it is locked and the volume is only adjusted from the external amp.

This response on the RME forum is interesting:

"The industry standard on RCA unbalanced input is 2 V. Anything higher will cause distortion in the sound because it is "clipping" the input signal. Set Auto Ref Level = On and turn volume to -5.0 dBr. That gives you 13 dBu - 5 dBr = 8 dBu which equals 1,95 V."


----------



## wazzupi

betula said:


> My point by the way was that cheap amps like the RNHP or THX 789 only degrade sound quality out of the RME. They effectively bring distortion, which I don't deny, some might find pleasant. You need really good amps in case you want all the technicalities from the RME to shine through the amp.


what ? how is the thx 789 not a good amp ? literally out measured every amp it has faced before its time ?


----------



## acguitar84

Tuneslover said:


> I haven't spent much time with the RME's headphone outputs because I bought this device purely for the DAC.  Although the RME's internal amp is ok, I find it lacks the imagining and soundstage that I get from my Schiit Jotunheim (balanced).  I have the Violectric V280 coming next month which I suspect will outperform the Jot.



Same for me. Except I have one of the Headamp gsx mini's coming (to replace the Jotunheim). Can't wait to hear the RME/mini pairing!


----------



## betula

wazzupi said:


> what ? how is the thx 789 not a good amp ? literally out measured every amp it has faced before its time ?


I never said it is not a good amp. It is a very good amp for the price. Measurements are one thing...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> Naturally nothing. It is locked. The volume could still be changed from the menu, but the point is that for Line Out purposes, it is locked and the volume is only adjusted from the external amp.
> 
> This response on the RME forum is interesting:
> 
> "The industry standard on RCA unbalanced input is 2 V. Anything higher will cause distortion in the sound because it is "clipping" the input signal. Set Auto Ref Level = On and turn volume to -5.0 dBr. That gives you 13 dBu - 5 dBr = 8 dBu which equals 1,95 V."



I think we ultimately decided that wasn't great advice and I think everybody is running with auto ref off and 0 dB. Which should also be line level...


----------



## mixman

acguitar84 said:


> Same for me. Except I have one of the Headamp gsx mini's coming (to replace the Jotunheim). Can't wait to hear the RME/mini pairing!


Let me know how that pairing goes, since I am strongly considering the Mini.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

mixman said:


> Let me know how that pairing goes, since I am strongly considering the Mini.



Why the mini when the V280 is 1200 bucks on drop?


----------



## wazzupi

betula said:


> I never said it is not a good amp. It is a very good amp for the price. Measurements are one thing...


"My point by the way was that cheap amps like the RNHP or THX 789 only degrade sound quality out of the RME. They effectively bring distortion" 
You basically said it was a cheap,bad amp(degrades sound quality of the RME),I'd say the THX 789 is still a better amp than the build in amp of the RME(even with this so called degrading), how does an Amp that is measured far superior bring distortion to a audio rig ?


----------



## wazzupi

gimmeheadroom said:


> Why the mini when the V280 is 1200 bucks on drop?


The drop is over, violectric has a warm tilt, mini isn't so much maybe thats why ?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

wazzupi said:


> The drop is over, violectric has a warm tilt, mini isn't so much maybe thats why ?



Didn't know the drop was over, Violectric does not have a warm tilt, don't know what you're on about (again).


----------



## hkpants

Tuneslover said:


> My first serious standalone headphone amp was the Lake People G109S (which I still have and love) so I have a pretty good idea of the LP/Violectric house sound.  Of course the V200 amplifier became the "standard" that subsequent amps were built off of so I'm expecting a similar but better sound from the V280.  Can't wait to hear how it pairs with the RME DAC.





Tuneslover said:


> Makes sense if there isn't a volume control on the DAC.  I had the Modi MB which gave a fixed line out signal which had no adjustment.  So I'm still confused as to what you mean by "the standard (max) level signal designed to be input to an amp".  If that occurs with the RME then why does my Jotunheim amp get louder and quieter if I adjust the volume knob on the RME?  Sorry if I'm not making sense, I'm still learning the functionality of the RME DAC.





hiImGrant said:


> To me, this is a design flaw. But I think you have the right idea of how to set it up. It’s how I have mine set up.



From my understanding of DACs with amps (I don't own the RME), there should be a DAC mode which sends the signal straight to the line-out and disabled the DAC volume control and there's the amp/pre-amp mode which let's you use the RME volume control. DAC mode should be what you aim for if you running a separate Amp.


----------



## betula

wazzupi said:


> "My point by the way was that cheap amps like the RNHP or THX 789 only degrade sound quality out of the RME. They effectively bring distortion"
> You basically said it was a cheap,bad amp(degrades sound quality of the RME),I'd say the THX 789 is still a better amp than the build in amp of the RME(even with this so called degrading), how does an Amp that is measured far superior bring distortion to a audio rig ?


I should have used the word 'affordable' instead of cheap. Distortion can be a positive thing for example if someone likes a warm sound. 
I tried the THX789 with the RME and I didn't like what I heard, even though there was a little more space in the upper mids and treble which is pretty much my only pro.
The sound got a bit warmer thicker, but at the same time clarity was lost to some extent and bass became too warm and less detailed. It wasn't a huge difference, but enough for me not to like it. I prefer clarity.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think we ultimately decided that wasn't great advice and I think everybody is running with auto ref off and 0 dB. Which should also be line level...



But, if that is correct, something doesn't add up. I am using the Woo Audio WA3 as an external amp. It is NOT overly powerful (330mW @300ohm). I am using it when listening to the HD-600 or HD-650, 300 ohm impedance. If I turn the RME volume to 0dB, I can only turn the amp to 10 o'clock, after that it's too loud. So with 0dB set on the RME as volume and +13dBu as Ref Level (this seems to be the correct Ref Level for 0.0 dB volume), this must be the story with most external amps. Doesn't seem like the correct approach with so little play on the amp volume knob. Is your experience different?


----------



## mixman

gimmeheadroom said:


> Why the mini when the V280 is 1200 bucks on drop?





wazzupi said:


> The drop is over, violectric has a warm tilt, mini isn't so much maybe thats why ?


Bingo, what Wazzupi said. Mainly that warm tilt. Most of my cans lean towards warm, hence it’s better for me to get a more neutral amp like the Mini.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

mixman said:


> Bingo, what Wazzupi said. Mainly that warm tilt. Most of my cans lean towards warm, hence it’s better for me to get a more neutral amp like the Mini.



Have you heard the V280? I have one and it is not warm. It's dead neutral.


----------



## wazzupi

gimmeheadroom said:


> Didn't know the drop was over, Violectric does not have a warm tilt, don't know what you're on about (again).


literally look at any review on vioelectric amps and they all say the same thing, you can deny whatever you want but doesn't mean it isn't true.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> But, if that is correct, something doesn't add up. I am using the Woo Audio WA3 as an external amp. It is NOT overly powerful (330mW @300ohm). I am using it when listening to the HD-600 or HD-650, 300 ohm impedance. If I turn the RME volume to 0dB, I can only turn the amp to 10 o'clock, after that it's too loud. So with 0dB set on the RME as volume and +13dBu as Ref Level (this seems to be the correct Ref Level for 0.0 dB volume), this must be the story with most external amps. Doesn't seem like the correct approach with so little play on the amp volume knob. Is your experience different?



The range of the volume knob does not depend only on the input level. It depends on exactly what headphones you're driving and good amps usually have some way to adjust gain. Just because the volume is too loud does not mean the input isn't the right level. We don't know until we measure the distortion. As a practical matter, sure, you need some way not to blow your brains out... if you have to adjust the DAC lower, you have to adjust it lower.


----------



## mixman

gimmeheadroom said:


> Have you heard the V280? I have one and it is not warm. It's dead neutral.


Nope have not heard it. Many others have mentioned that it is on the warm side. Relaxasaurus In his review (He owns the V280)mentions it is warm, sometimes almost implying to the point of obscuring some detail. Plus the V281 and V280 are an older design so much so that Violectric is replacing them soon. I guess that’s enough Violectric talk on the RME thread.


----------



## wazzupi

betula said:


> I should have used the word 'affordable' instead of cheap. Distortion can be a positive thing for example if someone likes a warm sound.
> I tried the THX789 with the RME and I didn't like what I heard, even though there was a little more space in the upper mids and treble which is pretty much my only pro.
> The sound got a bit warmer thicker, but at the same time clarity was lost to some extent and bass became too warm and less detailed. It wasn't a huge difference, but enough for me not to like it. I prefer clarity.


I dont disagree, distortion can be a good thing but the whole point of the THX amp was to be dead neutral and have little to none in the distortion department, what I'm trying to say, as I don't disagree with your philosophy, it's that I don't understand how something like any of the THX amp fit these statements.

What you're hearing might have to do with something else, I don't have any real expertise or troubleshooting advice, as I am receiving my first RME adi-2 dac tomorrow. (i currently own the Topping A90 amp)


----------



## gimmeheadroom

mixman said:


> Nope have not heard it. Many others have mentioned that it is on the warm side. Relaxasaurus In his review (He owns the V280)mentions it is warm, sometimes almost implying to the point of obscuring some detail. Plus the V281 and V280 are an older design so much so that Violectric is replacing them soon. I guess that’s enough Violectric talk on the RME thread.



Given you haven't heard it, it does not make sense you should be making statements about it as if you know something.


----------



## mixman

gimmeheadroom said:


> Given you haven't heard it, it does not make sense you should be making statements about it as if you know something.


While it is better to hear something, myself, in absense of that that I have to rely on the opinion of those I trust and guess what........that isn’t you! You seem to be clueless as to what your amp sounds like in the context of other amps. As Wazzuppi said you are in denial, therefore I am discounting anything you say as far as sound.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> The range of the volume knob does not depend only on the input level. It depends on exactly what headphones you're driving and good amps usually have some way to adjust gain. Just because the volume is too loud does not mean the input isn't the right level. We don't know until we measure the distortion. As a practical matter, sure, you need some way not to blow your brains out... if you have to adjust the DAC lower, you have to adjust it lower.



I agree with what you are saying and it must be so if this is the result of lengthy discussions you were part of. 

But as I mentioned I use it with the relatively hard to power HD-600 and HD-650. I do not plug my HD-660s (150 ohm impedance) into it. And it is not an amp known to have a crazy amount of power. It is, however, known as an amp that pairs exceptionally well with the 600 and 650. I don't think it was designed FOR these headphones, but maybe... so overall, it seems strange that with the DAC at the optimal level, the amp would only get so little usable volume range. Especially considering Woo Audio makes more powerful OTL amps. Is it possible that at volume 0.00 dB coupled with Ref Level +13 dBu, in fact the RME does send a louder signal than standard (by 13 dBu)?


----------



## acguitar84 (Jun 3, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Given you haven't heard it, it does not make sense you should be making statements about it as if you know something.


That's true, but speaking for myself I don't have an easy access to every piece of gear to evaluate it. So I comb through the threads looking for info. The V280 does sound like a great amp (and i was considering it), but from the many posts on it (and yes folks saying it leans to the warm side), I decided to take a chance and order the gsx mini. Without a side by side comparison I'll never know if I made the right choice. But the gsx mini sounds (from it's thread) like a great amp too, and my guess is either of them would be a step up from the Jotunheim (who knows if that's the case either lol). It's a crazy hobby! I tell myself, maybe I should have just been happy with the Jotunheim you know? That said, I really dig the RME, love that DAC!


----------



## Progisus

Just spent a wonderful hour listening to Steve Hackett. RME>EE LX. The iem output is stellar.


----------



## mixman

wazzupi said:


> I dont disagree, distortion can be a good thing but the whole point of the THX amp was to be dead neutral and have little to none in the distortion department, what I'm trying to say, as I don't disagree with your philosophy, it's that I don't understand how something like any of the THX amp fit these statements.
> 
> What you're hearing might have to do with something else, I don't have any real expertise or troubleshooting advice, as I am receiving my first RME adi-2 dac tomorrow. (i currently own the Topping A90 amp)


I agree with you on that. While the THX does not blow the doors off the RME’s amp I think it adds something positive to the RME and not just distortion. The RME is a great package and a damn good standalone DAC, especially since you have full control of the inputsand outputs, more so than most other DACs. That’s makes it easier to use with other amps, even if it is for just a different flavor.


----------



## acguitar84

mixman said:


> Let me know how that pairing goes, since I am strongly considering the Mini.


I will! I've enjoyed the RME-Jotunheim-HD650 pairing a lot! But the RME-Jotunheim-PS1000e pairing, not so much, too bright. I'm hoping the mini brings the PS1000e into better sonic territory since the Jotunheim is known for a bright signature overall. The HD650 should be fine with the mini being it seems to "scale" to whatever is used with it, and the HD800s, it looks like the pairing with the mini is a good match as well. We'll see. I'm just waiting on the mini and the HD800s to ship. I'm hoping to have both in the next couple of weeks.


----------



## betula

wazzupi said:


> I dont disagree, distortion can be a good thing but the whole point of the THX amp was to be dead neutral and have little to none in the distortion department, what I'm trying to say, as I don't disagree with your philosophy, it's that I don't understand how something like any of the THX amp fit these statements.
> 
> What you're hearing might have to do with something else, I don't have any real expertise or troubleshooting advice, as I am receiving my first RME adi-2 dac tomorrow. (i currently own the Topping A90 amp)


What is warm and what is neutral depends on a lot of things: individual taste, ears, experience with other gear. It is a bit surprising though to read after all this rant you don't even own the RME (yet). To me RME alone sounds cleaner than with the THX amp. End of story.


----------



## wazzupi

acguitar84 said:


> I will! I've enjoyed the RME-Jotunheim-HD650 pairing a lot! But the RME-Jotunheim-PS1000e pairing, not so much, too bright. I'm hoping the mini brings the PS1000e into better sonic territory since the Jotunheim is known for a bright signature overall. The HD650 should be fine with the mini being it seems to "scale" to whatever is used with it, and the HD800s, it looks like the pairing with the mini is a good match as well. We'll see. I'm just waiting on the mini and the HD800s to ship. I'm hoping to have both in the next couple of weeks.


I loved my hd650 with tubes, hd800 are great with tubes too, high ohm hps require current along with wattage which is where tubes come in and they give the hd650/hd800 a sense of authority and come alive. 
OTL tube amps I believe are the cheapest and best type for dynamic hps. But I'd recommend trying to find a local meet or go to a canjam to try em out.


----------



## hiImGrant

betula said:


> What is warm and what is neutral depends on a lot of things: individual taste, ears, experience with other gear. It is a bit surprising though to read after all this rant you don't even own the RME (yet). To me RME alone sounds cleaner than with the THX amp. End of story.


I have them both in front of me right now and I would say the RME is slightly less forward in the treble (probably less sharpened). This may have the effect of making the mids more accessible, so it sounds more balanced. I don’t think I’d be able to tell if there was an actual difference in resolving power.
All this said I don’t prefer the THX against warmer options so that’s where my preferences lay. I would agree that at least for my taste the RME’s headphone out is better than the 789. I do wish it had a balanced output though.


----------



## mixman

hiImGrant said:


> I have them both in front of me right now and I would say the RME is slightly less forward in the treble (probably less sharpened). This may have the effect of making the mids more accessible, so it sounds more balanced. I don’t think I’d be able to tell if there was an actual difference in resolving power.
> All this said I don’t prefer the THX against warmer options so that’s where my preferences lay. I would agree that at least for my taste the RME’s headphone out is better than the 789. I do wish it had a balanced output though.


 I am hearing a bit of the opposite, that the RME is more forward sounding, more 2D. Both have about the same details but the THX more laid back, is more 3D and has more air.


----------



## betula

hiImGrant said:


> I have them both in front of me right now and I would say the RME is slightly less forward in the treble (probably less sharpened). This may have the effect of making the mids more accessible, so it sounds more balanced. I don’t think I’d be able to tell if there was an actual difference in resolving power.
> All this said I don’t prefer the THX against warmer options so that’s where my preferences lay. I would agree that at least for my taste the RME’s headphone out is better than the 789. I do wish it had a balanced output though.


The difference is not huge, but apparent. Try to listen to some detailed and layered bass music. It is simply cleaner from the RME. The THX might have a bit more body, but less clarity down there. The THX amp is not fully balanced by the way and even a fully balanced output is not better by default compared to a SE output. It mostly depends on the whole implementation.


----------



## hiImGrant

mixman said:


> I am hearing a bit of the opposite, that the RME is more forward sounding, more 2D. Both have about the same details but the THX more laid back, is more 3D and has more air.


Ears are a hard thing, lol. I probably couldn’t pick out the difference in a blind test.


----------



## Tuneslover

hkpants said:


> From my understanding of DACs with amps (I don't own the RME), there should be a DAC mode which sends the signal straight to the line-out and disabled the DAC volume control and there's the amp/pre-amp mode which let's you use the RME volume control. DAC mode should be what you aim for if you running a separate Amp.


I sent RME the question whether there is a true FIXED Line Out level setting on the RME which defeats (LOCKS OUT) the RME's volume control.  Thereby ONLY allowing the separate STANDALONE headphone amp to increase or decrease the volume.

I don't know how to LOCK OUT the RME volume control when in LINE OUT mode because I am able to adjust BOTH the RME and the Jotunheim's volume controls (both devices can & do increase/decrease the volume to my headphones).


----------



## Noobzilla (Jun 3, 2020)

Alrighty! I have finalized my decision and will be getting the RME ADI-2 DAC FS! I was considering Topping D90/A90 combo but I like that ADI-2 has a good amp built in plus that EQ. I will order it in a few hours. Just figuring out this RME + speaker bundle. The included cables do not make sense.

edit: Checked an unboxing video of the included speakers and it comes with RCA cable! Ordered!


----------



## Slim1970

Noobzilla said:


> Alrighty! I have finalized my decision and will be getting the RME ADI-2 DAC FS! I was considering Topping D90/A90 combo but I like that ADI-2 has a good amp built in plus that EQ. I will order it in a few hours. Just figuring out this RME + speaker bundle. The included cables do not make sense.
> 
> edit: Checked an unboxing video of the included speakers and it comes with RCA cable! Ordered!


Congrats, I think you'll enjoy it


----------



## wazzupi

Slim1970 said:


> How are you liking the sound of the pairing? I have the ATH-AWKT's as well that I'm breaking in. Straight out of the RME the sound is phenomenal.


any updates on how you're liking these ?


----------



## hiImGrant

Noobzilla said:


> Alrighty! I have finalized my decision and will be getting the RME ADI-2 DAC FS! I was considering Topping D90/A90 combo but I like that ADI-2 has a good amp built in plus that EQ. I will order it in a few hours. Just figuring out this RME + speaker bundle. The included cables do not make sense.
> 
> edit: Checked an unboxing video of the included speakers and it comes with RCA cable! Ordered!


That’s a nice deal!


----------



## G8torbyte

hiImGrant said:


> That’s a nice deal!


The Presonus monitors in that bundle are a nice little set of active/powered speakers.  There is a similar version which includes Bluetooth and it is the 3.5" set I purchased separately.


----------



## Dogmatrix

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think we ultimately decided that wasn't great advice and I think everybody is running with auto ref off and 0 dB. Which should also be line level...


I have to disagree it is excellent advice and those settings would be ideal with most domestic market amps . Pro market amps such as Violectric/Lake People , Rupert Neve and Phonitor can accept the full output from the RME +19dBu ref level plus +2.5dB volume .
Personally I set my RME adi 2 pro at +13 ref level and -3dB volume level in DAC mode which gives 2.4 volts perfect for feeding my tube amps or my Burson conductor V2
Setting auto ref to off does not set a level you must choose between -5 dBu, +1 dBu, +7 dBu, +13 dBu , that level plus the volume level sets the output level
In order to set the optimum output level it is important to establish the recommended input levels for the amp concerned , if that can not be done then a level between 1.5 and 3 volts will work .
Keeping in mind the amp will perform best in terms of dynamic range and signal to noise when fed with the highest level it can take
Once set to the best levels the volume should be locked and the setting saved


----------



## Dogmatrix

For a regular domestic headphone amp the Ref level + volume setting should total between +6dBu = 1.5V and +12dBu = 3V
Higher or lower and the performance of the amp will likely be compromised


----------



## gimmeheadroom

acguitar84 said:


> That's true, but speaking for myself I don't have an easy access to every piece of gear to evaluate it. So I comb through the threads looking for info. The V280 does sound like a great amp (and i was considering it), but from the many posts on it (and yes folks saying it leans to the warm side), I decided to take a chance and order the gsx mini. Without a side by side comparison I'll never know if I made the right choice. But the gsx mini sounds (from it's thread) like a great amp too, and my guess is either of them would be a step up from the Jotunheim (who knows if that's the case either lol). It's a crazy hobby! I tell myself, maybe I should have just been happy with the Jotunheim you know? That said, I really dig the RME, love that DAC!



I hear you. 

I am not saying the V280 is better than the gsx amps because I haven't heard them. Given it was 600 bucks cheaper for a bit I thought it would help to point that out.

But I am also not saying the gsx amps are this or that based on regurgitating reviews mindlessly. There is a difference


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> I agree with what you are saying and it must be so if this is the result of lengthy discussions you were part of.
> 
> But as I mentioned I use it with the relatively hard to power HD-600 and HD-650. I do not plug my HD-660s (150 ohm impedance) into it. And it is not an amp known to have a crazy amount of power. It is, however, known as an amp that pairs exceptionally well with the 600 and 650. I don't think it was designed FOR these headphones, but maybe... so overall, it seems strange that with the DAC at the optimal level, the amp would only get so little usable volume range. Especially considering Woo Audio makes more powerful OTL amps. Is it possible that at volume 0.00 dB coupled with Ref Level +13 dBu, in fact the RME does send a louder signal than standard (by 13 dBu)?



I don't think the ref level should be set so high if the volume is 0 dB.

I will have to refrain from commenting further on this until I get home and that will be a while.


----------



## Slim1970

wazzupi said:


> any updates on how you're liking these ?


I’ve be listening to my newly acquired Liquid Platinum for the past couple of days. I'm trying to get a feel for it's sound. Compared to the RME, the Liquid Platinum is stock form falls behind to my ears. The AWKT's on the RME is much cleaning sounding and a lot more detailed. More to come on the pairing.....


----------



## wazzupi

Slim1970 said:


> I’ve be listening to my newly acquired Liquid Platinum for the past couple of days. I'm trying to get a feel for it's sound. Compared to the RME, the Liquid Platinum is stock form falls behind to my ears. The AWKT's on the RME is much cleaning sounding and a lot more detailed. More to come on the pairing.....


I'll be receiving my rme tomorrow , I think imma need a new cable at some point.


----------



## Slaphead

Noobzilla said:


> Alrighty! I have finalized my decision and will be getting the RME ADI-2 DAC FS! I was considering Topping D90/A90 combo but I like that ADI-2 has a good amp built in plus that EQ. I will order it in a few hours. Just figuring out this RME + speaker bundle. The included cables do not make sense.
> 
> edit: Checked an unboxing video of the included speakers and it comes with RCA cable! Ordered!



I'm not saying the speakers are bad for the money but that is one arse about elbow package - combining a $1000 DAC/AI with $99 speakers (for the pair I might add so $50 each) just doesn't seem right.

I've got my RME paired with these and they don't do the RME justice.

But hey, if you just need speakers on your desktop for the odd use then fine.


----------



## Noobzilla

Slaphead said:


> I'm not saying the speakers are bad for the money but that is one arse about elbow package - combining a $1000 DAC/AI with $99 speakers (for the pair I might add so $50 each) just doesn't seem right.
> 
> I've got my RME paired with these and they don't do the RME justice.
> 
> But hey, if you just need speakers on your desktop for the odd use then fine.


Is it a bad idea to pair those two? I was told to spend about 5:1 ratio on dac/amp and speakers/headphones. I figured doubling that would even be better so I went with $1000 RME with $100 speakers.



Spoiler: actual pairing



(sarcasm) Don't worry  it will be paired with Meze Empyrean and Beyerdyamic Xelento.

That would be hilarious if I did buy a $1000+ dac/amp for a ~$100 speakers. It is the same price everywhere else but this one comes with freebie. I had my LS50 setup with my desktop computer a while back but that's no longer the case since I moved them to the living room. I will use the freebie for gaming when I dont want to wear anything.


----------



## hkpants

Noobzilla said:


> Is it a bad idea to pair those two? I was told to spend about 5:1 ratio on dac/amp and speakers/headphones. I figured doubling that would even be better so I went with $1000 RME with $100 speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've heard (and believe) the opposite, spend way more on speakers /headphones than DAC/Amp.

Edit: oof missed the spoiler 😅


----------



## Swisshead (Jun 5, 2020)

I found this Forum about the ADI. Very interesting and also RME Write direct.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...version-2-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.13379/


----------



## wazzupi

RME adi2 dac is probably one of the best dacs i've owned, tied with the MA Onyx but this has so many different features which puts it over the edge.


----------



## betula

Swisshead said:


> I found this Forum about the ADI. Very interesting and als RME Write direct.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...version-2-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.13379/


I read some of the posts but not the whole thread. It seems the ADI2 FS is highly regarded in hardcore audio geek circles as well. It is great to see this DAC proves to be successful in different camps. I don't care much about measurements, I am a simple audio enthusiast who follows his ears and takes all the reviews and posts with more than a grain of salt. Have to say though, this ADI2 DAC is truly exceptional for the price. Clean, clear, dynamic. Drives most headphones without an external amp to (more than) decent degrees. I heard much more expensive combos that can't compete with ADI2 alone.


----------



## Slaphead (Jun 5, 2020)

Noobzilla said:


> Is it a bad idea to pair those two? I was told to spend about 5:1 ratio on dac/amp and speakers/headphones. I figured doubling that would even be better so I went with $1000 RME with $100 speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL, my comment was less about you picking up a freebie, but more about why the hell would a so called pro audio business package a top performing dac with monitors that would highly likely be a landfill candidate for somebody prepared to spend $1000 on a DAC.

But I do totally get your usage case


----------



## Noobzilla

Slaphead said:


> LOL, my comment was less about you picking up a freebie, but more about why the hell would a so called pro audio business package a top performing dac with monitors that would highly likely be a landfill candidate for somebody prepared to spend $1000 on a DAC.
> 
> But I do totally get your usage case



I checked and it looks like theyre just bundling it with a lot of their items. Inventory clean up I suppose. A bit disappointed I didn't see it bundled with a Chord TT2  But I'm sure they would if they carried Chord!


----------



## Bullpride

Are there multiple revisions of this DAC with the same name?  Are they differentiated in any meaningful way?


----------



## hiImGrant

Bullpride said:


> Are there multiple revisions of this DAC with the same name?  Are they differentiated in any meaningful way?


At some point they change the dac chip and have made software updates that can be loaded on older iterations iirc


----------



## wazzupi

hiImGrant said:


> At some point they change the dac chip and have made software updates that can be loaded on older iterations iirc


Anyone know when they changed the Dac ? my software says 12/2019 im hoping its the new dac ?


----------



## hiImGrant

wazzupi said:


> Anyone know when they changed the Dac ? my software says 12/2019 im hoping its the new dac ?


This came out 12/19
https://darko.audio/2019/12/rme-quietly-update-their-adi-2-dac/


----------



## wazzupi (Jun 6, 2020)

hiImGrant said:


> This came out 12/19
> https://darko.audio/2019/12/rme-quietly-update-their-adi-2-dac/


thanks


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Bullpride said:


> Are there multiple revisions of this DAC with the same name?  Are they differentiated in any meaningful way?



There are two revs. One uses 4490 with a basic remote, the 2nd gen uses 4493 with a better remote. The 2nd gen has one additional color choice on the meter. Both are great DACs, no significant upgrade on 2nd other than the remote, which is theoretically available to purchase separately anyway. This is pro audio, thankfully not mid-fi feature wars.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> There are two revs. One uses 4490 with a basic remote, the 2nd gen uses 4493 with a better remote. The 2nd gen has one additional color choice on the meter. Both are great DACs, no significant upgrade on 2nd other than the remote, which is theoretically available to purchase separately anyway. This is pro audio, thankfully not mid-fi feature wars.



The Amber color is also available on Gen 1. It was a software update.

I would also add that RME itself said that there is no audible difference in the performance of the two DACs.


----------



## Swisshead

Also in the first version you can switch between 3 colors. A pure software problem. Just always download the latest versions.


----------



## technobear

gimmeheadroom said:


> Both are great DACs, no significant upgrade on 2nd other than the remote, which is theoretically available to purchase separately anyway.


Nothing theoretical about it. I received mine from Thomann on Friday and it works great with the original ADI-2 DAC. A really useful upgrade.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_mrc_multi_remote_control.htm


----------



## gimmeheadroom

technobear said:


> Nothing theoretical about it. I received mine from Thomann on Friday and it works great with the original ADI-2 DAC. A really useful upgrade.
> 
> https://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_mrc_multi_remote_control.htm



I said theoretical because at some point RME stated that the demand for the new version plus other issues at the time made it impossible to ship separate remotes.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

technobear said:


> Nothing theoretical about it. I received mine from Thomann on Friday and it works great with the original ADI-2 DAC. A really useful upgrade.
> 
> https://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_mrc_multi_remote_control.htm



40 EUR with shipping for a small piece of plastic.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> 40 EUR with shipping for a small piece of plastic.



Or buy the new DAC and get one free


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Jun 7, 2020)

Had read the last 40+ pages of this thread. At first I wondered why I saw many people use RME ADI 2 in their signature (as equipment list), so I searched this thread for more information. When the time has come, and I able to test RME in flesh, dare I say, I feel that I simply read too much. Too much of good things that perhaps exceed my expectation with RME.

Well, just remember to always read impression with grain of salt, pepper, lemon, and the steak itself


----------



## Light - Man (Jun 7, 2020)

^ Ouch! No offense taken as I don't own one!  

Are you just comparing the ADI to the Chord Hugo 2 (H2) which is more than twice the price of the ADI?

Others here have said that they preferred the ADI to the H2.

What surprises me is that the ADI does not use dual DAC chips, neither does the new Topping D90.

But surprisingly, my humble Topping DX3 Pro (version 2) uses *dual*  AK4493 chips. I power my DX3 with a 12 volt car battery. I mainly use it as a DAC into a good speaker system but the DX3 has only a mediocre headphone section (IMO) but one that is pleasant and will not offend your ears.

IMO, the Topping DX3 Pro is an absolute bargain. In fact, I have two of them and I find the BT to be very useful with very good SQ.

BTW, my gear buying days are only occasional now because I only have one good ear. But I have owned the DX3 for several months before my hearing went in one ear. I will also post this ramble over on the Topping D90 to show that I am not biased. I have not tried the ADI or the D90 but have been curious to see what all the fuss is about.

I like the form factor and the display on the DX3 and I have for many years been a big fan of outboard power supplies. I reckon that a lot of companies place the power supplies inside to make them heavier so that they can charge more........


----------



## Swisshead

If you want more, you can take the Pro Version. 2 DAC Chips.

https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-pro-fs-be.html


----------



## Light - Man

Thanks Swisshead but I can't find where is says dual chips?

Most new mid-fi DAPs have dual chips because they are perceived to sound better even though dual chips will of course use more power.

What do you think of your ADI?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Light - Man said:


> Most new mid-fi DAPs have dual chips because they are perceived to sound better even though dual chips will of course use more power.



I guess most dual DAC devices are done just for marketing purposes. If one is good, two must be better.


----------



## Light - Man

gimmeheadroom said:


> I guess most dual DAC devices are done just for marketing purposes. If one is good, two must be better.


I am usually skeptical as well, but the logic is to have two completely different signal paths and power supplies.

I do not have any chord products at the moment, I only had the Mojo which I thought was good but a little overrated. If we are to believe Rob Watts who previously designed DAC chips. He has stated that separate chips overcome many issues that he has with off the shelf chips. 

I just listen with my own ear (previously two) and I make my own judgement..............


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Light - Man said:


> I am usually skeptical as well, but the logic is to have two completely different signal paths and power supplies.
> 
> I do not have any chord products at the moment, I only had the Mojo which I thought was good but a little overrated. If we are to believe Rob Watts who previously designed DAC chips. He has stated that separate chips overcome many issues that he has with off the shelf chips.
> 
> I just listen with my own ear (previously two) and I make my own judgement..............



In the end he doesn't use any off the shelf chips at all in Chord products. His are custom programmed FPGA. I'm not sure what you conclude from that.


----------



## Swisshead (Jun 7, 2020)

The Pro offers much more, but also costs twice as much. If you do not need the functions, the standard DAC is sufficient.

An advantage is 2 completely separate HP amplifiers. You can listen with 2 at the same time and adjust the volume or you can use both outputs with an adapter to balanced outputs, e.g. adapter 6.3mm to XLR. Then you have double power balanced.

I thought about ordering one this weekend. But don't bother, the normal DAC is enough for me, because I only use it with the iCan and it has enough power. But as a stand-alone I would take the Pro version today.


----------



## Swisshead

The price is already a big difference. Here prices from Switzerland in CHF!


----------



## Light - Man

gimmeheadroom said:


> In the end he doesn't use any off the shelf chips at all in Chord products. His are custom programmed FPGA.* I'm not sure what you conclude from that.*


I suppose we can conclude that Rob is a Chord Fanboy?

His way or the highway?


----------



## Swisshead

Honestly, before I would buy a Hugo 2, I would take the RME Pro. Same money. The RME would offer me much more. That would not be a long decision!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

My Oppo 205 has two DACs and it is similar to what RME is doing in that they're not using them one per channel. They have different purposes.


Swisshead said:


> The price is already a big difference. Here prices from Switzerland in CHF!



Sure, the Pro is an ADC and DAC. If you buy Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and ADC it will cost a lot more than the RME Pro.


----------



## Swisshead

So you from the Czech Republic would have to buy a German product, you get so much money from Germany!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Swisshead said:


> So you from the Czech Republic would have to buy a German product, you get so much money from Germany!



I am a meritorian consumer. I buy the best stuff I can. It is not always the best stuff, it is just the best I can afford.

So I got the 2nd edition RME ADI-2 DAC FS (Germany) and the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ (Poland). Because I wanted the parametric EQ and MQA...

You should note I didn't receive any money from either country. I have a job!


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Swisshead said:


> The price is already a big difference. Here prices from Switzerland in CHF!



Using double dac chip and double amp module, no wonder price increase also twice. Anyone ever compared them side by side?


----------



## Swisshead (Jun 7, 2020)

gimmeheadroom: Yes Gratulation, also a very nice combination!  

(Said your country gets so much money from Germany via EU! )


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Swisshead said:


> gimmeheadroom: Yes Gratulation, also a very nice combination!
> 
> (Said your country gets so much money from Germany via EU! )



We also get hazardous waste and criminals from EU. So we are not happy with the trade balance


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Swisshead said:


> gimmeheadroom: Yes Gratulation, also a very nice combination!
> 
> (Said your country gets so much money from Germany via EU! )



And mind you, although the Czech Republic is a net receiver of EU funds, when projects are implemented in Czechia or Poland, where do you think the equipment comes from 95% of the time, and companies from which country do you think win the public procurement process? I posit that it's a lot more complicated than some would have us believe. No one benefits from the EU common market than Germany, some could argue, and I think they have a point.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Yeah we're more than tired of this. All the people I know don't even want to be in the EU and don't want the help or the cost that comes with it.

BTW Czechia is for google... our country is Czech Republic 

I know @Swisshead only meant to be friendly. But it is a sore topic.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah we're more than tired of this. All the people I know don't even want to be in the EU and don't want the help or the cost that comes with it.
> 
> BTW Czechia is for google... our country is Czech Republic
> 
> I know @Swisshead only meant to be friendly. But it is a sore topic.



 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-euro...ch Republic wants to,to "The French Republic".

You guys did change your name in English.

As for the EU, I know... this is not the place for politics. I share your concerns, but I think it is plain silly for anyone to wish the EU away. It would be a disaster, our countries are too small. We would be bought by the bigger fish and our consumer safety and food safety standards would be destroyed. I think it's OK to criticize what doesn't work in the EU, want reform in those areas, and still believe in the EU as something that works ultimately, in the face of the U.S., China, Russia...


----------



## Swisshead

No no, I didn't want to start a political discussion, I don't belong here. I was joking. Fortunately we are not in the EU, but we have already got too much of it... but as I said, it doesn't belong here.  

PS: was a politician in Switzerland for many years!


----------



## Light - Man

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah we're more than tired of this. All the people I know don't even want to be in the EU and don't want the help or the cost that comes with it.
> 
> BTW Czechia is for google... our country is Czech Republic
> 
> I know @Swisshead only meant to be friendly. *But it is a sore topic*.


Then please don't mention the trump here!


----------



## Light - Man

Swisshead said:


> No no, I didn't want to start a political discussion, I don't belong here. I was joking. Fortunately we are not in the EU, *but we have already got too much of it... but as I said, it doesn't belong here. *
> 
> PS: was a politician in Switzerland for many years!


Indeed, too much Chocolate and too much money, no room left for more DAC chips?


----------



## technobear (Jun 7, 2020)

<deleted>


----------



## Light - Man

technobear said:


> You must have skipped over the words: " Two premium DACs are used for two separate stereo outputs. "


Thanks, but this has already been mentioned and the dual DACs seem to be only available in the much more expensive Pro version. I for one find the whole ADI series to be very confusing with too much marketing BS for such a so called "Pro" brand.

I for one do not use any type of EQ or any type of filter, so to me, many features are not necessary and just over complicate things. Anyway I have made my point and it is time for me to use my time better................


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Light - Man said:


> Thanks, but this has already been mentioned and the dual DACs seem to be only available in the much more expensive Pro version. I for one find the whole ADI series to be very confusing with too much marketing BS for such a so called "Pro" brand.
> 
> I for one do not use any type of EQ or any type of filter, so to me, many features are not necessary and just over complicate things. Anyway I have made my point and it is time for me to use my time better................



I don't get it. The site is clear and there are only two models. I think the shops selling it are the source of most of the confusion. It seems like there are hundreds of models but there are only 2.


----------



## Light - Man (Jun 7, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't get it. The site is clear and there are only two models. I think the shops selling it are the source of most of the confusion. It seems like there are hundreds of models but there are only 2.


Very confusing indeed if anyone cares to search online.

But my Topping DX3 Pro has dual DACs for only £159 Pounds UK............. 

BTW, I do not like the Topping D50s and I would not recommend it! Even my wife who has zero interest in anything related to music gear did not like the D50s but she really likes the DX3Pro..............


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Light - Man said:


> Very confusing indeed if anyone cares to search online.
> 
> But my Topping DX3 Pro has dual DACs for only £159 Pounds UK.............
> 
> BTW, I do not like the Topping D50s and I would not recommend it! Even my wife who has zero interest in anything related to music gear did not like the D50s but she really likes the DX3Pro..............



Yeah I hate to say it but at best some of the sites selling the RME appear to have no idea which version they're selling and other sites look like they're trying to get rid of the 1st gen DAC at 2nd gen prices or even sell the low-end 24/192 DAC as the ADI-2 DAC FS. I remember wondering What when I started looking online.

I don't think dual dacs mean anything except the way RME and Oppo and maybe some other companies have implemented them. One per channel? I'm not aware of any need for that. The feature set on the RME is unheard of at the price and I think that is what sells. It's just a very complete and powerful package. It's non-disposable, if it breaks it goes back to the factory and comes back ready to go. If Chifi breaks it goes into the garbage. If you spend 159 GBP for a DX3 you may be perfectly ok with that. Different gear for different kinds of uses, interests, budgets etc.


----------



## Light - Man

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah I hate to say it but at best some of the sites selling the RME appear to have no idea which version they're selling and other sites look like they're trying to get rid of the 1st gen DAC at 2nd gen prices or even sell the low-end 24/192 DAC as the ADI-2 DAC FS. I remember wondering What when I started looking online.
> 
> I don't think dual dacs mean anything except the way RME and Oppo and maybe some other companies have implemented them. One per channel? I'm not aware of any need for that. The feature set on the RME is unheard of at the price and I think that is what sells. It's just a very complete and powerful package. It's non-disposable, if it breaks it goes back to the factory and comes back ready to go. If Chifi breaks it goes into the garbage. If you spend 159 GBP for a DX3 you may be perfectly ok with that. Different gear for different kinds of uses, interests, budgets etc.


You don't know what my budget is and it seems that you are judging something that you have not heard and you appear to be disregarding it because of its price.............

If you don't want to hear my message, then maybe others will..........................


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Light - Man said:


> You don't know what my budget is and it seems that you are judging something that you have not heard and you appear to be disregarding it because of its price.............
> 
> If you don't want to hear my message, then maybe others will..........................



I just said there is something for everybody, not sure how you could misread that.

If you are trying to say the RME isn't worth it then yeah, I didn't get your message. I own one and I'm very happy with it.


----------



## Light - Man

Hey Bro, glad that you like it, sincerely! 

I just wanted to give another option for others who were not keen on paying that much, especially because of the model confusion. It seems that ADI are not so innocent when they released the new model which adds to the confusion.

I would have liked to try one but I get a shed load of confusion when I look on Amazon UK, etc..........

I really expect dual DAC chips at this price, why would I not, when Topping can give it to me for 159 pounds......


----------



## phthora

Light - Man said:


> I really expect dual DAC chips at this price, why would I not, when Topping can give it to me for 159 pounds......



The RME has phenomenal measurements and is widely admired subjectively, what does it matter that it 'only' has one DAC chip in it? Honestly, what do you think cramming in a second chip is going to do at this point? I mean, besides raising the price.

Quality implementation of the chip is _far _more important than number or types of chips used, and that is what you are paying for with the RME. Well, that and the insane panoply of features.


----------



## Light - Man

Anyone brave enough to come on here and compare the lowly Topping DX3 pro v2 with the mighty ADI?

But make sure that you bring you bullet proof vest with you!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Light - Man said:


> Anyone brave enough to come on here and compare the lowly Topping DX3 pro v2 with the mighty ADI?
> 
> But make sure that you bring you bullet proof vest with you!



There is more to it than just specs. There are things like build quality, service, support, features, interface etc. The benefit of pro gear is the ecosystem that goes with it.

It is already impossible to hear distortion or noise on the one 4490/4493 the RME has. What is the benefit of dual DACs?


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Jun 8, 2020)

The size indeed surprising me as significantly smaller than questyle CMA600i.

I had CMA600i for long time, already sold it, but still this product is my "reference" in term of sound and build quality for anything below $2k (CMA600i has retail price same as ADI-2 FS). I like everything simple, thus, one box solution is always my preferable set-up.

Like I wrote, unfortunately RME fail to impress me. As a DAC+Amp combo, while it's a solid product at its price, and I can't notice any major flaw in build quality and sound, but the product fail to engage me with music.

Sound is so plain and bland, I can hear the sound well, but no "musicality" or energy or emotion in there.

Compare side by side RME ADI-2 (high gain) and CMA600i with ZMF Verite Open:
I always think this Questyle is at neutral with a hint of warmness, that keeps everything in balance. Not aggressive, not too relax, not syrupy mellow. Just right in the middle. Jump to RME from questyle, first I notice is how lack of excitement the sound is. With pop songs the difference is there, with something jazzy like Halie Loren, the lack of soul from RME is even more apparent. It was a weird experience as I just stare the blank wall and start to wondering what was wrong with my set up. I never heard Halie's song turn like this before in many other various set-up. 

Treble actually is about the same in term of quantity, positioning, and smoothness. Nothing much to write about here, micro detail feels same amount, sparkle but smooth.

Midrange in RME is slight more laidback, with less body at lower midrange. Not thin, but just slight lack of "oomph" like in Questyle.

Bass definitely CMA600i is at the upper hand, better definition, stronger impact, hit deeper, and more texture with bass guitar or double bass instrument. Both device have well controlled bass that never obstruct other spectrum.

Soundstage feels a little wider at RME. Questyle produce more depth and height, make the 3D feel more apparent (and not by slight margin).

Overall tonality, Questyle has more body through all spectrum, like adding a real flesh to the sound, while retain clarity and control in good quality that easily match ADI-2.

My conclusion is, I think RME is a great product at its price, if we want something extremely neutral (lifeless though), and want to add flavour by tweaking the EQ. I'm a bit purist in this regard and didn't touch the EQ at all.

For now CMA600i retain my most favourite one box solution under $2k (because CMA 12 Master price at $2k), but unfortunately questyle decide to discontinued this line up. Well, that makes RME even more solid choice I guess, because it's still in production.

Additional note:
RME ADI 2 vs Chord Hugo 2, as dac, connect to CMA600i's amplifier section:
Chord easily the winner in term of resolution, detail, imaging (much sharper), soundstage quality, and has more "soul" infused to vocal jazz type of songs.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

It seems odd to see line out at -16.0 dB


----------



## TheMiddleSky

gimmeheadroom said:


> It seems odd to see line out at -16.0 dB



Took that photo while I tried to figure out RME menu before started listening time (especially set high gain and check dim on/off). Need a little time before can use the menu properly


----------



## f1r3fly

Has anybody purchased the new programmable remote for their older ADI-2? Seems the only source I can find is the US ADI website whereas in the UK they have retailers selling them.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jun 8, 2020)

TheMiddleSky said:


> Took that photo while I tried to figure out RME menu before started listening time (especially set high gain and check dim on/off). Need a little time before can use the menu properly



I think I read about a few guys not having their RMEs set up properly and it caused them to sound lifeless as you said. Don't mean to put words in your mouth but that's kinda what I read from what you are saying about not enough body.

I have not heard a Questyle or Hugo 2 so I can't compare.  My other DACs include an Oppo 205, Brooklyn DAC+, and an Audiolab 8300CD (ESS9018). I am most often using the Brooklyn into a V280 balanced. I tend not to drive anything out of dacamps directly except cans like Fostex or HD 25s which are easily driven.

I am also not wowed by the RME amp with some of my headphones (Sennheisers 600 and 800). For others LCD-2C for example it sounds rather fantastic to me. Maybe the RME just can't push your Verites hard enough. What you describe is how I feel about Sennheisers that don't have enough juice. Hard to understand your comments without having the same gear as you.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

f1r3fly said:


> Has anybody purchased the new programmable remote for their older ADI-2? Seems the only source I can find is the US ADI website whereas in the UK they have retailers selling them.



Yes, upthread somebody reported just receiving one from Thomann.


----------



## f1r3fly

Thanks. That's what I found interesting, retailers in the UK are selling the remote for around $35. Those with low shipping costs to the US for some reason can not ship the remote here. The cost of the remote from Thomann to the US after shipping is more than ordering directly from RME (which I think wanted $70).


----------



## betula

TheMiddleSky said:


> The size indeed surprising me as significantly smaller than questyle CMA600i.
> 
> I had CMA600i for long time, already sold it, but still this product is my "reference" in term of sound and build quality for anything below $2k (CMA600i has retail price same as ADI-2 FS). I like everything simple, thus, one box solution is always my preferable set-up.
> 
> ...


I used to own the CMA600i paired with Chord Qutest. The 600i is a great amp but its built in DAC section is not the greatest. A really good combo with the Qutest though.
I am obviously working from memory here, but I think the 600i and the ADI2 are just totally different. Headphone pairing matters a lot as well. I don't think the ADI2 is the best for your Verité, but it is really great with Audeze headphones. The CMA600i has a much more 'romantic' sound. Smoother, warmer with more body as you said. A good match with the HD800 or ZMF. ADI2 is cleaner, leaner, but very dynamic and detailed: a great match with somewhat warmer/darker/thicker headphones like Audeze. I don't think we can pick an objective winner here. It depends on the headphones, pairings, taste, interest, mood and so on.


----------



## Swisshead (Jun 8, 2020)

TheMiddleSky said:


> The size indeed surprising me as significantly smaller than questyle CMA600i.
> 
> I had CMA600i for long time, already sold it, but still this product is my "reference" in term of sound and build quality for anything below $2k (CMA600i has retail price same as ADI-2 FS). I like everything simple, thus, one box solution is always my preferable set-up.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I'm with you all the way. The ADI is extremely neutral, yes with certain very neutral HP really boring. Yeah, me, too. There was something missing in the musicality and the tension in the music. Even the iFi micro iDSD BL offers more! It is a professional studio device where neutrality is extremely important.

With Sounding-HP, on the other hand, it's very good, because bass, treble and other things are not "inflated" even more. There it fits.

For example, I simply miss something with the Audeze LCDi4. That was exactly such a case. Therefore I bought the iFi iCan pro. There you have the possibility to listen to transistor or tube or combo. Fantastic. Also much more power for HP, which need power. It brings me back the musicality that I missed with the ADI. Especially the i4 is totally blossomed with the iCan. Completely new headphones! Outstanding! Perfectly happy.

The advantage is now, I have a very neutral DAC, with which I feed the iFi. But if necessary I still have all possibilities with EQ, loudness and some more HP to help me. I appreciate that very much.

For me both together the absolutely perfect combination!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

f1r3fly said:


> Thanks. That's what I found interesting, retailers in the UK are selling the remote for around $35. Those with low shipping costs to the US for some reason can not ship the remote here. The cost of the remote from Thomann to the US after shipping is more than ordering directly from RME (which I think wanted $70).



Now you guys know how we feel 

I read the supply of remotes was tight. Hopefully when it improves you'll find some stateside shops that will have better deals. Look for pro audio shops rather than hifi joints.


----------



## f1r3fly

gimmeheadroom said:


> Now you guys know how we feel
> 
> I read the supply of remotes was tight. Hopefully when it improves you'll find some stateside shops that will have better deals. Look for pro audio shops rather than hifi joints.


Good to know, thank you for your help.


----------



## Noobzilla

It's been about 2-3 years since I read stuff about DACs and headphones so I've been reading random articles here and there. ADI-2 often gets mentioned about how good it is for its price--often beating or on par with other more expensive DACs. My RME will arrive this Thursday (as long as it doesn't get looted on the way here). Very excited!


----------



## Bullpride

TheMiddleSky said:


> The size indeed surprising me as significantly smaller than questyle CMA600i.
> 
> I had CMA600i for long time, already sold it, but still this product is my "reference" in term of sound and build quality for anything below $2k (CMA600i has retail price same as ADI-2 FS). I like everything simple, thus, one box solution is always my preferable set-up.
> 
> ...



This is a DAC first, with a digital preamp.  It is not meant to replace a true DAC/AMP Combo.  Isn't the questyle CMA600i sold as a true DAC/AMP combo.  I would think a DAC like the RME ADI-2 should be as neutral as possible, and would be "colored" by what amp it is paired with?  

These are genuine questions, as I am considering purchasing the RME ADI-2 as a DAC only, pair with a Bottlhead Crack and ZMF Atticus.  This would give me the warmth I am looking for through the Tubes/Headphones.  Complaining about a neutral DAC seems strange.


----------



## f1r3fly

This was my second go-around with the ADI-2. I had it, liked it, but the interface to get into the functions are not that friendly. (The superb manual helps but I am too lazy to pull it out every time). So I went to a Sony Tazzy. While I liked it and the build quality was superb, recently switched back to the ADI-2. Just a kid at heart and I like the Spectrum Analyzer screen. I am hoping the newer remote will help with not needing to use the interface as often.


----------



## darmccombs

f1r3fly said:


> This was my second go-around with the ADI-2. I had it, liked it, but the interface to get into the functions are not that friendly. (The superb manual helps but I am too lazy to pull it out every time). So I went to a Sony Tazzy. While I liked it and the build quality was superb, recently switched back to the ADI-2. Just a kid at heart and I like the Spectrum Analyzer screen. I am hoping the newer remote will help with not needing to use the interface as often.


Sound Quality wise, can you give your impressions between the RME and the Tazzy?


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Jun 8, 2020)

betula said:


> I used to own the CMA600i paired with Chord Qutest. The 600i is a great amp but its built in DAC section is not the greatest. A really good combo with the Qutest though.
> I am obviously working from memory here, but I think the 600i and the ADI2 are just totally different. Headphone pairing matters a lot as well. I don't think the ADI2 is the best for your Verité, but it is really great with Audeze headphones. The CMA600i has a much more 'romantic' sound. Smoother, warmer with more body as you said. A good match with the HD800 or ZMF. ADI2 is cleaner, leaner, but very dynamic and detailed: a great match with somewhat warmer/darker/thicker headphones like Audeze. I don't think we can pick an objective winner here. It depends on the headphones, pairings, taste, interest, mood and so on.



Very true, in the end the synergy of each devices is the most important. I choose Verite because this headphone represent balance sound with good musicality without sounding too thick/thin/bright/dark.



Swisshead said:


> Yeah, I'm with you all the way. The ADI is extremely neutral, yes with certain very neutral HP really boring. Yeah, me, too. There was something missing in the musicality and the tension in the music. Even the iFi micro iDSD BL offers more! It is a professional studio device where neutrality is extremely important.
> 
> With Sounding-HP, on the other hand, it's very good, because bass, treble and other things are not "inflated" even more. There it fits.
> 
> ...



Well, ifi design their product (nano, BL, ican) with plenty of energy actually. Never tried iCan with i4, but ever tried to paired with LCD3 and they were great. I can imagine your system is a sweet combo!



Bullpride said:


> This is a DAC first, with a digital preamp.  It is not meant to replace a true DAC/AMP Combo.  Isn't the questyle CMA600i sold as a true DAC/AMP combo.  I would think a DAC like the RME ADI-2 should be as neutral as possible, and would be "colored" by what amp it is paired with?
> 
> These are genuine questions, as I am considering purchasing the RME ADI-2 as a DAC only, pair with a Bottlhead Crack and ZMF Atticus.  This would give me the warmth I am looking for through the Tubes/Headphones.  *Complaining about a neutral DAC seems strange.*



I don't ready anywhere in their web that state this mainly DAC first. So I take the product as what it is, a dac, pre amp, with headphone amp.

However, I do think that to use ADI-2 optimally, an external amplifier is important, especially for harder to drive cans.

About yous statement that I bold above. Actually, I already expect someone will wrote that I complained about "neutrality" here. May I ask you what is neutral for you?

I have tried plenty of DAC devices, also some "studio" DAC like Lavry, Benchmark, Grace, and now RME, but none of them sound the same, even though they supposed to be sound neutral?

What's neutral DAC? Which one is more neutral? And by what reference a dac become neutral? When most of the digital songs we listen is already tweaked to have certain coloration? Also, by create neutral sound means have to sacrifice "engaging" feeling? (this is a question, not a statement).

Bottlehead is a great tube amp with super good value, paired with Atticus they would be great. I think in this case RME will be a pleasant choice.


----------



## f1r3fly

darmccombs said:


> Sound Quality wise, can you give your impressions between the RME and the Tazzy?



This is from memory, but I felt the Tazzy was a bit more laid back and easier to listen to with both HD800 and Pioneer SEM1. Not sure why but I felt the amp in the Tazzy was holding it back. If the amp had more "powa" I probably would have kept it. I have an old Audio GD NFB-10SE, the DAC was okay in it but the amp was very good. Just too bad there are no inputs on it to allow it to function as an amp only.

The ADI-2 amp section is just okay also with my headphones, but it has the advantage of fancy screen and much smaller footprint.


----------



## darmccombs

f1r3fly said:


> This is from memory, but I felt the Tazzy was a bit more laid back and easier to listen to with both HD800 and Pioneer SEM1. Not sure why but I felt the amp in the Tazzy was holding it back. If the amp had more "powa" I probably would have kept it. I have an old Audio GD NFB-10SE, the DAC was okay in it but the amp was very good. Just too bad there are no inputs on it to allow it to function as an amp only.
> 
> The ADI-2 amp section is just okay also with my headphones, but it has the advantage of fancy screen and much smaller footprint.


Great, Thank you for your impressions.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

f1r3fly said:


> This is from memory, but I felt the Tazzy was a bit more laid back and easier to listen to with both HD800 and Pioneer SEM1. Not sure why but I felt the amp in the Tazzy was holding it back. If the amp had more "powa" I probably would have kept it. I have an old Audio GD NFB-10SE, the DAC was okay in it but the amp was very good. Just too bad there are no inputs on it to allow it to function as an amp only.
> 
> The ADI-2 amp section is just okay also with my headphones, but it has the advantage of fancy screen and much smaller footprint.



If you wanna hear a pair of 600s or 800s sing, run them out of an OTL amp. Big solid state amps like Violetric do the job splendidly also.

Sennheisers scale amazingly. It's almost impossible to throw too much amp at them.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> If you wanna hear a pair of 600s or 800s sing, run them out of an OTL amp. Big solid state amps like Violetric do the job splendidly also.
> 
> Sennheisers scale amazingly. It's almost impossible to throw too much amp at them.



Like so?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> Like so?



Well I do like Woo amps and plan to get a WA2 when it stops hitting the fan.

But listen to a pair of 800s over a V280 on a balanced cable... glorious....


----------



## Tuneslover

Bullpride said:


> This is a DAC first, with a digital preamp.  It is not meant to replace a true DAC/AMP Combo.  Isn't the questyle CMA600i sold as a true DAC/AMP combo.  I would think a DAC like the RME ADI-2 should be as neutral as possible, and would be "colored" by what amp it is paired with?
> 
> These are genuine questions, as I am considering purchasing the RME ADI-2 as a DAC only, pair with a Bottlhead Crack and ZMF Atticus.  This would give me the warmth I am looking for through the Tubes/Headphones.  Complaining about a neutral DAC seems strange.


Yeah man that's totally right.


----------



## MLGrado (Jun 10, 2020)

So I was orginally dropping in for a surely overdue lavishing of praise upon this little RME marvel of a DAC, and how incredible it mates with the Icon Audio MKII tube head-amp.  I found a tube combo this evening that creates sound TO DIE FOR.  And I still haven't yet modded the Icon's output caps.  I have the pair of recommended Jensen Copper PIO caps right here in sight.  Super easy job to do.. Even the biggest novice like me would have to try really hard to mess up.  The say that the Icon becomes like a new amp with the Caps.

Well, it became a new amp tonight with the tube roll.  NOS National Union 6F8G/VT-99 black oval plates pair and Siemens ECC83 Long Plate MC6 code mid 1950's vintage.  WOW WHAT A COMBO.

Well back to what I originally thinking.  I love my RME DAC, but just before I got on Headfi tonight, I learn that RME has updated the DAC!  NO, not issued a new product with pomp/circumstance, whatever.  They have just started putting an even better, newer AK chip inside and are packaging a much better remote.. For the first time I feel like I have been 'HiFiMan-ed'.  hah.  I am all for making products better, but it kind of feels a bit anti-climactic when you know you don't have the best version of one of the best products you have ever owned 

Oh well.

The other news is I just bought my 'dream' DAC.  Always been a huge, huge fan of AMR products and T. Loesch, and became an even bigger fan when they dove headfirst into these crazy Headfi waters.  Great company run by creat people. T. Loesch himself always would take way more time that I deserved explaining audio theory, HIS audio theory, what iFi was up to, etc... this was in those days right before the iDSD Micro hit the market. 2014 I think.  Of course they have exploded since then, so those old days of conversation about things such as the major weaknesses of DSD.. etc.. which is quite ironic considering the direction they went with the product lineup!  Ha!

Anyway... the dream dac... I have wanted this ever since the first 'iDSD Mini' prototype teased us at shows back in late 2014.  But it is finally happening.  Getting an iDSD PRO with a linear power supply by SBooster for good measure.  I plan on an extensive review pitting it side by side with the RME.  Both feature loaded DACs, but in different ways.  Both have native DSD, bypassing the Sigma Delta converters sending the DSD signal to the output filter for conversion.  RME built by German engineers; iFi is a British company with product mass produced in China, but Thorsten comes from a German audio background as well.

Not anywhere near the same league pricewise, I know.  But it will be fun.  And before we are done, in the next few months I plan on comparisions with the latest SMSL m400 DAC, and I have a 'generic' China made ESS 9038 DAC on the way just for the hell of it.  Always curious what these really cheap (relatively) devices with similar parts and specs to more expensive offerings sound like.

Here is tonight's bliss machine... Love those 6F8G Beauts!  Headphones tonight are just Hifiman HE-560.  I have a set of Senn. HD650 around somewhere if I get the itch for it.  I sold my personal flagships.. Focal Clear Pros.. I may regret it, but again, I have found some rare synergy on this evening with the Hifiman in signal chain.  One of the moments mad, crazy tube rollers like me dream about...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

RME says that the reason for the change to 4493 was not to upgrade anything. The 4490 is not going to be available forever. There are no audible differences between rev. 1 and rev. 2 of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS, and the new remote is available to purchase separately. It works with the rev. 1 DAC. Now that's pro audio! No obsolence...


----------



## MLGrado (Jun 10, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> RME says that the reason for the change to 4493 was not to upgrade anything. The 4490 is not going to be available forever. There are no audible differences between rev. 1 and rev. 2 of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS, and the new remote is available to purchase separately. It works with the rev. 1 DAC. Now that's pro audio! No obsolence...



the difference in actual performance is noteworthy for measurements junkies for whatever reasons they have.  But the differences should not be audible to the human ear, as you say.

I personally would say when considering measurements, our best understanding of the science of audio reproduction says we should hear no difference between the first and second RME DAC.  I won't ever go so far as to say that what is probably or even likely true is an absolute though.  And it is possible there are other factors that create an audible difference that we don't measure.  Again, just leaving that possibility open.  Audio science is just like any other science; constantly evolving as we learn new things and 'un-learn' or understand more clearly 'old' things.

I always wonder about how people when comparing two different products whose measured specs should mean there is no audible difference still hear a difference, sometimes pronounced!

We could answer by saying people are imagining things.  Or perhaps there are things we aren't measuring because we don't even know we need be.  Or we haven't come to a complete understanding of what we measure, or perhaps there are measurements that should have more weight than currently is given, others that shouldn't be considered as important as they are.  Or we could apply the same speculations to groups of measurements and the variances created, trying to understand how component synergy affects what we hear.

Let me be clear I am just being speculative.  Although pure objectivists will disagree, what makes reproduced audio sound 'good' isn't absolutely understood in its entirety by audio science.

And while many are inclined to think 'audiophiles' just imagine the differences they hear, I am not one of them.  I believe the differences I and others hear are real.  And how measurements relate to that still isn't completely understood.  Or maybe myself and others like me are just crazy 'audiofools'.

And that is fine with me.  If I think something sounds different/better and enjoy it more because of that, more power to me!!! And to others who feel the same!  Becuase in the end, its really all about enjoying the music!!


----------



## Noobzilla

Thursday delivery date. Moved to Friday. Now moved to Monday. All of a sudden my weekend feels so empty! 

I also bought DSD file for the first time. Could easily hear the difference in sound! Very excited to try them with better gear!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Noobzilla said:


> Thursday delivery date. Moved to Friday. Now moved to Monday. All of a sudden my weekend feels so empty!
> 
> I also bought DSD file for the first time. Could easily hear the difference in sound! Very excited to try them with better gear!



I hated the first CDs I heard and I didn't buy a CD player for decades afterwards. SACD (DSD) sounds to me like what I always wanted CDs to sound like. DACs are a lot better now than 40 years ago but SACDs give me that vinyl feeling. I hope DSD catches on outside audophile circles but I'm not sure it will. Not a lot of new SACDs are being made now. Some, but not many.


----------



## Redwingnine

gimmeheadroom said:


> I hated the first CDs I heard and I didn't buy a CD player for decades afterwards. SACD (DSD) sounds to me like what I always wanted CDs to sound like. DACs are a lot better now than 40 years ago but SACDs give me that vinyl feeling. I hope DSD catches on outside audophile circles but I'm not sure it will. Not a lot of new SACDs are being made now. Some, but not many.




Most of the new SACDs I've seen are Classical offerings from th EU.


----------



## Redwingnine

I just ordered one of these.   I am really looking forward to using this.  Will be using this as a DAC, with XLR out to a Mjolnir Pure Bipolar amp.  Headphones are Focal Stellia, Focal Elear,  and Sony MDR Z7.  

Will post impressions after some review and evaluation.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Redwingnine said:


> Most of the new SACDs I've seen are Classical offerings from th EU.



I should look into that. Mostly I'm buying jazz and classic rock. Half the time I have to get it shipped here from America or Japan.


----------



## Matias

Also waiting for mine to arrive. It will drive an Audeze LCD-XC and also balanced out to an NCore NC502MP based amp to the Monitor Audio PL100 speakers.


----------



## Noobzilla (Jun 15, 2020)

Finally arrived! Now just figuring out how to play DSD on Foobar.

EDIT: Yay! Works now! I'm glad the screen shows that I'm playing DSD. With all the Foobar settings I'm not sure what's being outputted.

EDIT2: Just tested it against my Chord Mojo. I'm not even gonna compare the ADI-2 to the Meridian Explorer 2 DAC it's replacing since the Mojo already stomps on it. Holy crap! _3 minute jawdrop... _

Ok I can talk again. I thought the Mojo was already the king that let me hear everything there is so I wasn't expecting much improvement out of the ADI-2 if any at all, but just seconds into using it I already hear things much cleaner. I listened to several other tracks and can confirm this. I'm a believer now! Super happy with the purchase! 

P.S. I'm just a bit scared of the volume. I'm using -32.0 to -27.0 dB.


----------



## technobear

Noobzilla said:


> P.S. I'm just a bit scared of the volume. I'm using -32.0 to -27.0 dB.


This is normal and nothing to worry about.


----------



## Slim1970

Noobzilla said:


> Finally arrived! Now just figuring out how to play DSD on Foobar.
> 
> EDIT: Yay! Works now! I'm glad the screen shows that I'm playing DSD. With all the Foobar settings I'm not sure what's being outputted.
> 
> ...


Don’t be afraid to turn up the volume, most headphones can handle it, especially planars. They love volume!


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Slim1970 said:


> Don’t be afraid to turn up the volume, most headphones can handle it, especially planars. They love volume!



I can't think of a single pair of headphones I've tried where I thought this might be too loud for the headphones but not my ears (which is, afterall, the most important piece of gear we bring in this hobby).


----------



## gimmeheadroom

If I had to guess I would say it's just that some people aren't comfortable with output expressed in dB as opposed to some scale on the knob 1 - 100 etc.

Just start low, like -50 depending on the cans and work up slowly from there. Make sure DIM is off and high power is on! Don't change those settings with a pair of headphones on your ears... like our friend @CaptainFantastic said ^


----------



## dakchi

Hello,
For those who are interested, I received yesterday ARES 2 that I ordered. I already have RME ADI-2 that has an excellent reputation in the forum. I was curious to compare the 2. After a few hours of burn-in, here are my first conclusions: 

ARES 2 is an excellent DAC that provides an organic and airy (3D) sound with very tied bass. I have a pair of B&W CM9 S2 that can be bright and fatiguing with some tracks. ARES 2 corrected this and made them sound relax. I have been very impressed by the bass and mids too. Vocals sound fantastic with ARES 2
RME ADI-2 on the other hand sounds more analytical with extended amount of highs compared to ARES 2. Instruments separation is better, but lows and mids are led back compared to ARES 2. The best way to describe it is that it is neutral. There is no coloration whatsoever
I expect that ARES will get better with burn-in. So far, it is an excellent DAC despite the issues that have reported here regarding measurements. I don't care about measurements. What is important is that I enjoy the music
Honetly, we cannot say that a DAC is better than another. All we can say is that it sounds different. Looking for a good setup is about finding synergies between components. For example, I wouldn't use RME ADI-2 with a bright speakers, unless I have a warm sounding amp, and I wouldn't use ARES 2 with less resolving speakers unless this is the kind of music I like.
Of course ARES 2 does not have the fancy screen and remote control that RME ADI-2, but as a DAC it sounds excellent depending on taste of course


----------



## gimmeheadroom

This is an interesting post, thank you. I don't find the RME analytical at all. I can't imagine what the Aeres II must sound like!

Do you have any other mainstream DACs you could compare to the RME and Denafrips?


----------



## dakchi

gimmeheadroom said:


> This is an interesting post, thank you. I don't find the RME analytical at all. I can't imagine what the Aeres II must sound like!
> 
> Do you have any other mainstream DACs you could compare to the RME and Denafrips?


Hi,
No, I don't have another DAC. I didn't say that RME is analytical. I said RME is more analytical compared to ARES 2; but ARES 2 is in the very begining of burn-in. It is  too early to have final conclusions. These are just first impressions
RME is clearly more precise in the highs (cymbals for example sound very clear with RME); but RME does not have the tight bass and warmth of ARES 2 if that is the kind of sound you like


----------



## Tuneslover

gimmeheadroom said:


> If I had to guess I would say it's just that some people aren't comfortable with output expressed in dB as opposed to some scale on the knob 1 - 100 etc.
> 
> Just start low, like -50 depending on the cans and work up slowly from there. Make sure DIM is off and high power is on! Don't change those settings with a pair of headphones on your ears... like our friend @CaptainFantastic said ^


I don't use the RME amp, instead I go XLR line out into a standalone headphone amp.  Is DIM and HIGH POWER only for the ADI-2 amp section or does it apply to the Line Out's too?


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jun 16, 2020)

Tuneslover said:


> I don't use the RME amp, instead I go XLR line out into a standalone headphone amp.  Is DIM and HIGH POWER only for the ADI-2 amp section or does it apply to the Line Out's too?



High power is definitely only for the headphone out and I'm not sure it applies even to the IEM out. I didn't test it but I expect DIM will work on the XLR and RCA outputs unless you have fixed output set. Maybe even if you don't.

There, plenty of facts and clear answers 

Anyway in your case you should use 0 dB out and control the volume at your amp.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

dakchi said:


> Hi,
> No, I don't have another DAC. I didn't say that RME is analytical. I said RME is more analytical compared to ARES 2; but ARES 2 is in the very begining of burn-in. It is  too early to have final conclusions. These are just first impressions
> RME is clearly more precise in the highs (cymbals for example sound very clear with RME); but RME does not have the tight bass and warmth of ARES 2 if that is the kind of sound you like



I am not criticizing what you wrote. Since I do have the RME and consider it very musical rather than analytical, although it is crystal clear as you said, I just wanted a basis for comparison with some DAC we might have in common.


----------



## dakchi

gimmeheadroom said:


> I am not criticizing what you wrote. Since I do have the RME and consider it very musical rather than analytical, although it is crystal clear as you said, I just wanted a basis for comparison with some DAC we might have in common.


I didn't take bad my friend. I just clarified the point. RME is indeed crystal clear but lacks some excitment in the bass area compared to ARES 2. I think it can match perfectly with a tube amp


----------



## Tuneslover (Jun 16, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> High power is definitely only for the headphone out and I'm not sure it applies even to the IEM out. I didn't test it but I expect DIM will work on the XLR and RCA outputs unless you have fixed output set. Maybe even if you don't.
> 
> There, plenty of facts and clear answers
> 
> Anyway in your case you should use 0 dB out and control the volume at your amp.


Yup, except the VU meters show OVR in red when I take the RME volume to 0.  I find -2.0dB keeps it from going OVR.  I haven't locked it in yet because I'm waiting for the Violectric V280 to arrive from that Massdrop drop from a few weeks ago before I increase the Ref Level to the full amount (the V280 has an max input impedance of +21dBu) and do the volume lock (once I figure out how to do that).


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Tuneslover said:


> Yup, except the VU meters show OVR in red when I take the RME volume to 0.  I find -2.0dB keeps it from going OVR.  I haven't locked it in yet because I'm waiting for the Violectric V280 to arrive from that Massdrop drop from a few weeks ago before I increase the Ref Level to the full amount (the V280 has an max input impedance of +21dBu) and do the volume lock (once I figure out how to do that).



Check that you don't have auto ref on when you set the output to 0 dB.

What amp are you driving with it?

I have the V280 and I drive it at 0 dB from a Brooklyn DAC+, no issues.


----------



## Tuneslover (Jun 16, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Check that you don't have auto ref on when you set the output to 0 dB.
> 
> What amp are you driving with it?
> 
> I have the V280 and I drive it at 0 dB from a Brooklyn DAC+, no issues.


Nope I don't have the auto Ref on.  Currently I'm driving the RME with the V280's little cousin, Lake People G109S (which also has a max input impedance of +21dBu) but the RME only does +13 dBu in *single ended mode* (which is what the G109 is) so you would think that I should be able to go +8 dB on the RME.


----------



## kali77

So... I think my unit just bit the dust. Turned it on this morning and all I get is a blinking red power button. Can't reset it or anything. Have tried everything I can think of. Poor timing as I now have nothing to listen to while I await my Audiobyte stack. I have reached out to Sweetwater. Hoping they can rectify this quickly!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

kali77 said:


> So... I think my unit just bit the dust. Turned it on this morning and all I get is a blinking red power button. Can't reset it or anything. Have tried everything I can think of. Poor timing as I now have nothing to listen to while I await my Audiobyte stack. I have reached out to Sweetwater. Hoping they can rectify this quickly!



Go report it on the RME forums. It's night here so Mattias might not see it until tomorrow but maybe other guys can help.


----------



## InstantSilence

kali77 said:


> So... I think my unit just bit the dust. Turned it on this morning and all I get is a blinking red power button. Can't reset it or anything. Have tried everything I can think of. Poor timing as I now have nothing to listen to while I await my Audiobyte stack. I have reached out to Sweetwater. Hoping they can rectify this quickly!


I had this issue too... Red ring of death. So much for the German engineering rep. 
But the dealer swiftly helped


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Tuneslover said:


> Nope I don't have the auto Ref on.  Currently I'm driving the RME with the V280's little cousin, Lake People G109S (which also has a max input impedance of +21dBu) but the RME only does +13 dBu in *single ended mode* (which is what the G109 is) so you would think that I should be able to go +8 dB on the RME.



Yeah, that is surprising, I have no explanation. But you said VU meters?


----------



## kali77

gimmeheadroom said:


> Go report it on the RME forums. It's night here so Mattias might not see it until tomorrow but maybe other guys can help.



Thanks! I will probably just wait to hear back from the supplier as I am pretty sure it is dead. I have tried everything to no avail.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

kali77 said:


> Thanks! I will probably just wait to hear back from the supplier as I am pretty sure it is dead. I have tried everything to no avail.



Liking your post because I'm sorry about it, I hope it will get resolved quickly. Maybe there is a way to unbrick it. Your post and the one after it are the first I have heard of this. Maybe there is a known issue.


----------



## kali77

gimmeheadroom said:


> Liking your post because I'm sorry about it, I hope it will get resolved quickly. Maybe there is a way to unbrick it. Your post and the one after it are the first I have heard of this. Maybe there is a known issue.



Yeah that is what I figured  ..... I read one other case via searching but it seemed to be user error plugging the wrong voltage PS into the unit. However the blinking red power button does seem to indicate "death" lol.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jun 16, 2020)

kali77 said:


> Yeah that is what I figured  ..... I read one other case via searching but it seemed to be user error plugging the wrong voltage PS into the unit. However the blinking red power button does seem to indicate "death" lol.


Well, a blinking red light could mean the device is in some diagnostic mode or firmware upgrade mode so maybe there is a way to break out of that. Even if you are working with the dealer it might be helpful to you or others if you report it. The community on the forums is not large but they're pretty helpful guys.

https://forum.rme-audio.de


----------



## CaptainFantastic

kali77 said:


> Yeah that is what I figured  ..... I read one other case via searching but it seemed to be user error plugging the wrong voltage PS into the unit. However the blinking red power button does seem to indicate "death" lol.



How long have you had it? I've had mine for 18 months, using it every day for hours and hours and ZERO issues.


----------



## kali77

CaptainFantastic said:


> How long have you had it? I've had mine for 18 months, using it every day for hours and hours and ZERO issues.



Only a month roughly


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> How long have you had it? I've had mine for 18 months, using it every day for hours and hours and ZERO issues.



That guy @SupperTime had problems right off the bat but I seem to remember there was something weird about how he bought it. I have not seen other people report issues with these DACs at all. I mean it doesn't help that many of them work fine to the guy who has a bad one or some issue. I'm more curious to know if it is a new problem or if there is a workaround.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

kali77 said:


> Only a month roughly



Ah, I thought you just received it. Ok, so what did you do 

What changed? Just turned it on and wouldn't come up?


----------



## kali77

gimmeheadroom said:


> Ah, I thought you just received it. Ok, so what did you do
> 
> What changed? Just turned it on and wouldn't come up?



Ha. Nothing changed. Just went to power it on this morning and that is what happened. I will say something odd though is I cannot open the RME settings in the sound controls tray.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jun 16, 2020)

kali77 said:


> Ha. Nothing changed. Just went to power it on this morning and that is what happened. I will say something odd though is I cannot open the RME settings in the sound controls tray.



That last part is likely just a symptom of the device not being available. I just looked on the RME forums and I don't see a similar problem reported. I may have missed it, but I didn't find one. About the only hardware issue I could see was some dead pixels on the display and another one about one channel being out but it looked like a cable issue, not a fault of the DAC.

Now that I think of it, maybe uninstall all the RME software and reboot your PC with the DAC powered off and try again. Who knows...

Good luck and keep us updated.


----------



## Tuneslover

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah, that is surprising, I have no explanation. But you said VU meters?


LOL!  The pretty window showing all the wonderful ADI-2's graphical displays.  But it does show a horizontal L&R dB volume output,


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Tuneslover said:


> Yup, except the VU meters show OVR in red when I take the RME volume to 0.  I find -2.0dB keeps it from going OVR.  I haven't locked it in yet because I'm waiting for the Violectric V280 to arrive from that Massdrop drop from a few weeks ago before I increase the Ref Level to the full amount (the V280 has an max input impedance of +21dBu) and do the volume lock (once I figure out how to do that).



and then...



Tuneslover said:


> LOL!  The pretty window showing all the wonderful ADI-2's graphical displays.  But it does show a horizontal L&R dB volume output,



Wait what? I am totally confused now. If 0 dB volume on the RME is showing output over 100% on the meters it means your input _to the RME _is excessive!

What is your input to the DAC?


----------



## Tuneslover (Jun 17, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> and then...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My CD library ripped (44.1/16) into iTunes.

I should clarify, not EVERY tune goes OVR when I set the RME volume to 0dB just the songs that are recorded louder than average with good dynamics.  If I set the RME to -3.0 dB to -2.0 dB then I don't have this issue anymore.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Tuneslover said:


> My CD library ripped (44.1/16) into iTunes.
> 
> I should clarify, not EVERY tune goes OVR when I set the RME volume to 0dB just the songs that are recorded louder than average with good dynamics.  If I set the RME to -3.0 dB to -2.0 dB then I don't have this issue anymore.



Input to the DAC is excessive if 0 dB causes the meters to indicate ovr. Either the CDs were ripped incorrectly or iTunes is dynamically mangling levels. Is there auto volume correction on itunes?


----------



## technobear

gimmeheadroom said:


> Input to the DAC is excessive if 0 dB causes the meters to indicate ovr. Either the CDs were ripped incorrectly or iTunes is dynamically mangling levels. Is there auto volume correction on itunes?


Sorry but that's nonsense. The input is digital and cannot exceed 0dB.

What is most likely happening here is that there are intersample overs in the music. This can happen with music which has been driven to the maximum possible loudness and where the actual peak of the waveform lay between two samples. The DAC takes account of this phenomenon in the digital converter so the analogue output remains clean complete with those reconstructed peaks but if you maximise the volume then the meters will show those peaks as overs. It isn't a problem but it is poor mastering and I wish sound engineers would get out of this bad habit.


----------



## Tuneslover

gimmeheadroom said:


> Input to the DAC is excessive if 0 dB causes the meters to indicate ovr. Either the CDs were ripped incorrectly or iTunes is dynamically mangling levels. Is there auto volume correction on itunes?


It doesn't appear that iTunes is adjustable.  I'll try using my FiiO M11 as a source and see what happens.


----------



## Tuneslover (Jun 17, 2020)

technobear said:


> Sorry but that's nonsense. The input is digital and cannot exceed 0dB.
> 
> What is most likely happening here is that there are intersample overs in the music. This can happen with music which has been driven to the maximum possible loudness and where the actual peak of the waveform lay between two samples. The DAC takes account of this phenomenon in the digital converter so the analogue output remains clean complete with those reconstructed peaks but if you maximise the volume then the meters will show those peaks as overs. It isn't a problem but it is poor mastering and I wish sound engineers would get out of this bad habit.


Precisely.  The RME doesn't always show OVR (when I set it to 0dB).  As I stated earlier this only happens on noticeably louder tracks with strong dynamics that I get the OVR issue.

I just used my M11 (coaxial) as the source to the RME and it's the same as iTunes (optical) source in sound and also gets the same OVR reading withe the RME set to 0 dB.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

New RME video up:


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Tuneslover said:


> It doesn't appear that iTunes is adjustable.  I'll try using my FiiO M11 as a source and see what happens.



It might not be adjustable to the user, after all, it's apple and they know best. However, along those lines, they may be adjusting the levels _for you._


----------



## Tuneslover

gimmeheadroom said:


> It might not be adjustable to the user, after all, it's apple and they know best. However, along those lines, they may be adjusting the levels _for you._


I appreciate everyone's input, thank you for that.


----------



## Slaphead

technobear said:


> Sorry but that's nonsense. The input is digital and cannot exceed 0dB.
> 
> What is most likely happening here is that there are intersample overs in the music. This can happen with music which has been driven to the maximum possible loudness and where the actual peak of the waveform lay between two samples. The DAC takes account of this phenomenon in the digital converter so the analogue output remains clean complete with those reconstructed peaks but if you maximise the volume then the meters will show those peaks as overs. It isn't a problem but it is poor mastering *and I wish sound engineers would get out of this bad habit.*



It's not the sound engineers that are at fault, it's their customers that are the problem when it comes to loudness.


----------



## Bompah (Jun 17, 2020)

As a HD800S owner I can’t but concur. The number of recording which have shrill treble and crushed dynamics these days is fairly sad. And clipping, I was surprised by the number of albums I love which have clipped frequencies ruining the sound.


----------



## arielext

Tuneslover said:


> I don't use the RME amp, instead I go XLR line out into a standalone headphone amp.  Is DIM and HIGH POWER only for the ADI-2 amp section or does it apply to the Line Out's too?


Late to the party but DIM is also available on the line out; even in volume lock mode.


----------



## Redwingnine

The unit arrived today.  Initial impressions is that this is an excellent DAC.  The EQ is not easy to implement, as it  took some time to get it tweaked for the Focal Stellia. Currently have the DAC connected via XLR to a Pure Bipolar headphone amp, and the RCA connected to a tube preamp.  Works very well in both applications.

Need to check out the onboard headphone amps more, but for now, seems to work best as a DAC to an outboard headphone amp.

Will post additional observations once I get some time with this.


----------



## Cevisi

Redwingnine said:


> The unit arrived today.  Initial impressions is that this is an excellent DAC.  The EQ is not easy to implement, as it  took some time to get it tweaked for the Focal Stellia. Currently have the DAC connected via XLR to a Pure Bipolar headphone amp, and the RCA connected to a tube preamp.  Works very well in both applications.
> 
> Need to check out the onboard headphone amps more, but for now, seems to work best as a DAC to an outboard headphone amp.
> 
> Will post additional observations once I get some time with this.


I think you have to activate the high power option to get the moste of the build in amp


----------



## Slim1970

Cevisi said:


> I think you have to activate the high power option to get the moste of the build in amp


Yep, I keep mine on high power no matter what headphone I have connected to it. It sounds great with everything. If I need more power I use it as a preamp for my Burson Timekeeper with the Hifiman HE-Adapter. It’s actually my preferred way of listening to my Susvara’s, HE6se’s, and Diana Phi’s.


----------



## Redwingnine

I did some listening with both the IEM and phones and compared that to the Pure Bipolar external amp.  The bottom line:  The internal amps are not as good sounding as a high quality external headphone amp.  

The DAC portion does provide high end performance, with a host of adjustments to dial in the sound to optimize  the sound.  Having said that, the built in headphone amps, while good, simply don't provide the same level of overall quality that are provided with better high quality external headphone amps.


----------



## Slim1970

Redwingnine said:


> I did some listening with both the IEM and phones and compared that to the Pure Bipolar external amp.  The bottom line:  The internal amps are not as good sounding as a high quality external headphone amp.
> 
> The DAC portion does provide high end performance, with a host of adjustments to dial in the sound to optimize  the sound.  Having said that, the built in headphone amps, while good, simply don't provide the same level of overall quality that are provided with better high quality external headphone amps.


When compared to the best dedicated headphone or external amps, the RME headphone output is indeed limited. It’s not designed to compete with them. On it own, it does sound very, very good in my opinion. As an all in one solution, it trumps anything I’ve heard under it’s price point. Except for the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label, which is outstanding but isn’t as detailed sounding as the RME.


----------



## Redwingnine

Slim1970 said:


> When compared to the best dedicated headphone or external amps, the RME headphone output is indeed limited. It’s not designed to compete with them. On it own, it does sound very, very good in my opinion. As an all in one solution, it trumps anything I’ve heard under it’s price point. Except for the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label, which is outstanding but isn’t as detailed sounding as the RME.



Agreed. I bought it strictly as a DAC, and it meets that need quite nicely.   I was going to get a Benchmark DAC 3, but this to me is a better option.  The ability to EQ and cross feed makes it a best buy IMHO.


----------



## Cevisi

What should i do now


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Cevisi said:


> What should i do now



Put it aside for 3 days.  Potential surface contamination on plastic and all that. Then the work week will come, so leave it until Saturday the 27th to open. Delayed gratification.


----------



## Cevisi

CaptainFantastic said:


> Put it aside for 3 days.  Potential surface contamination on plastic and all that. Then the work week will come, so leave it until Saturday the 27th to open. Delayed gratification.


It did not travel far from the manufactor and reseller 100km radius. And we are pretty safe here


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Cevisi said:


> It did not travel far from the manufactor and reseller 100km radius. And we are pretty safe here



In any case, after you open it you could mail me that big remote it comes with. I can send you a smaller, sleeker version as replacement.


----------



## Cevisi

CaptainFantastic said:


> In any case, after you open it you could mail me that big remote it comes with. I can send you a smaller, sleeker version as replacement.


That remote has a big heft to it


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> What should i do now



Enjoy the music!


----------



## betula (Jun 19, 2020)

I know, 'loudness' is kind of a 'fake' function, but to me it really makes the LCD-X more enjoyable straight out of the ADI-2. The purpose of this function according to RME is to elevate bass and treble on lower levels of listening volume. Sure it does that, but I think the extent of change can be quite subjective. (Even if I follow RME's guideline to set lowest listening volume for the proper adjustment of loudness function). To me the loudness function colours the sound quite a lot. Elevates bass and treble, but the effect does not end with this. At least on the LCD-X I can hear an elevation (and additional clarity) in the upper mids too. Which is quite welcome with these headphones.
That said, loudness function more or less destroys the neutral quality of the LCD-X, but I think it is for the good when your main purpose is to enjoy contemporary electronic music. I love the LCD-X for its bass slam and dynamic sound with modern electronic music. For this purpose I think they are better than the Arya or Clear or any LCD2 variants. Great match with the X's low impedance and the sound tweaking abilities of the ADI2.


----------



## G8torbyte (Jun 19, 2020)

Cevisi said:


> What should i do now



If you like elektronische musik I recommend Infacted Recordings out of Germany. Lossless files are available on their Bandcamp site.  I enjoy listening to many of their artists using my RME.
Congrats on the new RME and have fun dialing it in to your preferences.


----------



## Cevisi (Jun 19, 2020)

G8torbyte said:


> If you like elektronische musik I recommend Infacted Recordings out of Germany. Lossless files are available on their Bandcamp site.  I enjoy listening to many of their artists using my RME.
> Congrats on the new RME and have fun dialing it in to your preferences.


Danke danke yes i like elektronische musik

I like the rme really even my girlfriend approved it


 


Actually she took my spot at the moment and listens to her favorite songs and plays around with the bass and treble knobs and watches the analyzer


----------



## Facta

CaptainFantastic said:


> New RME video up:




Thank you. Very helpful.


----------



## Facta (Jun 20, 2020)

Noob question.  ADI-2 Pro is connected to MacBookPro (Catalina OS) using aftermarket USB(C)-to-USB(B) cable and Phones-3/4 is my unbalanced headphone output. When I raise/lower the volume on any app in MacBook using Catalina OS, I do get a raise/lowering of volume as displayed on Mac's screen and it reflects in my ears too. Is this normal? (In the old USB DAC/Amps I used earlier, the volume control was possible only on the external USB DAC/Amp dial since the digital signal would go from Mac's USB to external DAC bypassing internal Mac's DAC before conversion). In my current situation, am I controlling volume of signal inside ADI-2 or, way too early inside Mac itself or, is this something I should not even be worrying about?


----------



## Swisshead

Cevisi said:


> Danke danke yes i like elektronische musik
> 
> I like the rme really even my girlfriend approved it
> 
> ...



Ohh, der ist gut, Corona Maske am Bett!   Aber viel Spass mit dem RME, der ist echt Klasse!


----------



## Dogmatrix

Facta said:


> Noob question.  ADI-2 Pro is connected to MacBookPro (Catalina OS) using aftermarket USB(C)-to-USB(B) cable and Phones-3/4 is my unbalanced headphone output. When I raise/lower the volume on any app in MacBook using Catalina OS, I do get a raise/lowering of volume as displayed on Mac's screen and it reflects in my ears too. Is this normal? (In the old USB DAC/Amps I used earlier, the volume control was possible only on the external USB DAC/Amp dial since the digital signal would go from Mac's USB to external DAC bypassing internal Mac's DAC before conversion). In my current situation, am I controlling volume of signal inside ADI-2 or, way too early inside Mac itself or, is this something I should not even be worrying about?


Nothing to worry about , just set the mac vol to full and forget about it . If the levels on the input screen peak red too much just back off the mac vol a little


----------



## gimmeheadroom

betula said:


> I know, 'loudness' is kind of a 'fake' function, but to me it really makes the LCD-X more enjoyable straight out of the ADI-2. The purpose of this function according to RME is to elevate bass and treble on lower levels of listening volume. Sure it does that, but I think the extent of change can be quite subjective. (Even if I follow RME's guideline to set lowest listening volume for the proper adjustment of loudness function). To me the loudness function colours the sound quite a lot. Elevates bass and treble, but the effect does not end with this. At least on the LCD-X I can hear an elevation (and additional clarity) in the upper mids too. Which is quite welcome with these headphones.
> That said, loudness function more or less destroys the neutral quality of the LCD-X, but I think it is for the good when your main purpose is to enjoy contemporary electronic music. I love the LCD-X for its bass slam and dynamic sound with modern electronic music. For this purpose I think they are better than the Arya or Clear or any LCD2 variants. Great match with the X's low impedance and the sound tweaking abilities of the ADI2.



I had one receiver in the 1980s that had a good loudness function. Until I got the RME I thought the idea of "loudness" was lost in time. It's just about humans needing some frequencies boosted at low listening levels. When you turn the volume up at some point it becomes unnatural sounding.


----------



## betula

gimmeheadroom said:


> I had one receiver in the 1980s that had a good loudness function. Until I got the RME I thought the idea of "loudness" was lost in time. It's just about humans needing some frequencies boosted at low listening levels. When you turn the volume up at some point it becomes unnatural sounding.


Loudness function has to be set properly according to RME's instruction in the manual taking into account your minimal listening volume. That said, to me it is like a V-shaped boost that can be fun.


----------



## Cevisi

I played around yesterday with the loudness function and it really helps at low listening levels to get some energy into the sound i really like it


----------



## Redwingnine

The 5 band equalizer is an excellent feature.  Just look up the headphones frequency response curve, and adjust the EQ curve to flatten out the specific headphone. Multiple headphone curves can be stored.  

Even the best headphones are not flat. Combine that with individual hearing deviations, the ability to adjust the frequency response curve is huge.   This DAC can sound better than many more expensive units due to ability to adjust the frequency response curve.


----------



## Cevisi

Redwingnine said:


> The 5 band equalizer is an excellent feature.  Just look up the headphones frequency response curve, and adjust the EQ curve to flatten out the specific headphone. Multiple headphone curves can be stored.
> 
> Even the best headphones are not flat. Combine that with individual hearing deviations, the ability to adjust the frequency response curve is huge.   This DAC can sound better than many more expensive units due to ability to adjust the frequency response curve.






There is this guy oratory1990. He begins to upload presets to eq different headphones to harman curve with the adi 2 for some


https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets


----------



## robm321

Thanks that was helpful.


----------



## Slim1970

Redwingnine said:


> The 5 band equalizer is an excellent feature.  Just look up the headphones frequency response curve, and adjust the EQ curve to flatten out the specific headphone. Multiple headphone curves can be stored.
> 
> Even the best headphones are not flat. Combine that with individual hearing deviations, the ability to adjust the frequency response curve is huge.   This DAC can sound better than many more expensive units due to ability to adjust the frequency response curve.


Completely agree with this. I think even the best headphones could use a boost or a cut a some point in their frequency response. If for nothing more than to tailor the sound you your listening preferences. The RME may not be the best sounding DAC/amp initially. After you learn to use its features and apply some tweaks it can be a highly enjoyable listening experience.


----------



## dakchi

Hello,
After a few more hours of burn-in, I am good to share with you my conclusions on Denafrips Ares II and RME ADI-2 used *as a DAC in a hifi setup* with speakers. If you are using ADI-2 with headphones, then this review is not for you. I am not into headphones world. Please note that we have different ears. These are my personal impressions:

Denafrips Ares II is trully an incredible DAC. Every note is more impactful compared to RME, in particular the bass and mids. The other big difference with RME is that Ares adds air in the sound. This can be easily noticed with vocals. I don't know how this little thing does it but the sound is kind of 3D, while RME is more 2D. In addition to that, Ares II has warmer sound, the kind of sound we get from tubes amplifiers
RME ADI-2 as a DAC is very neutral and crystal clear with no coloration at all. It has a better separation imho than Ares, which is a good and a bad thing. For example, when I noticed that the bass in Ares II goes deeper and has more impact than RME, I did something I normally never do: I played with EQ to raise the bass. By doing that, the bass had indeed more impact but it was too separated from the rest of the frequencies, like if it was playing separately. The result was not good. I made a lot of changes to EQ to have something close to the sound of Ares II, but all my attempts were not successful
In conclusion, I did everything to like RME, but for what I would like to use it I think that Ares II suits my taste better. RME has incredible features that Ares II does not have: remote control, screen, headphones amp, a lot of settings including EQ; but what is important for me is the sound. I have been tortured the last few days between sound and features. At the end, I choose the sound because that's what matters to all of us. 
So my personal recommendation: if you want a DAC for headphones or like neutral crystal clear sound then RME is an excellent value and will do the job very well. If you are looking for a DAC for a hifi setup and like warm bassy airy sound , then Ares II is the best option between the 2 imho.


----------



## Chu

I've come very close to pulling the trigger, but the one thing stopping me is no bluetooth.  Does anyone know if it's likely we'll see an updated version with Bluetooth anytime soon?  Any suggestions for a dedicated Bluetooth receiver?


----------



## wazzupi

dakchi said:


> Hello,
> After a few more hours of burn-in, I am good to share with you my conclusions on Denafrips Ares II and RME ADI-2 used *as a DAC in a hifi setup* with speakers. If you are using ADI-2 with headphones, then this review is not for you. I am not into headphones world. Please note that we have different ears. These are my personal impressions:
> 
> Denafrips Ares II is trully an incredible DAC. Every note is more impactful compared to RME, in particular the bass and mids. The other big difference with RME is that Ares adds air in the sound. This can be easily noticed with vocals. I don't know how this little thing does it but the sound is kind of 3D, while RME is more 2D. In addition to that, Ares II has warmer sound, the kind of sound we get from tubes amplifiers
> ...


did you try nos in the filter settings to see if it sounded closer to the Ares ?


----------



## wazzupi

Chu said:


> I've come very close to pulling the trigger, but the one thing stopping me is no bluetooth.  Does anyone know if it's likely we'll see an updated version with Bluetooth anytime soon?  Any suggestions for a dedicated Bluetooth receiver?


why do you want bluetooth if you don't mind me asking ? bluetooth imo limits the capability of the device.


----------



## knivek

Does anyone have any recommendations of Canadian sellers for the RME ADI2 Pro FS R BE?  Trying to see how much it would be up here and whether it would be a good fit my my Stellias


----------



## GoldenOne (Jun 21, 2020)

*Pros:*

- One of if not the most feature rich DACs on the market

- Very Compact

- Excellent reference sound, both subjectively and objectively

- Decent inbuilt headphone amp, and absolutely stellar IEM port

*Cons:*

- Headphone amp is somewhat cold

- Reference tuning might not be to everyone's tastes.






*Review:*

I've owned the ADI-2 DAC for a couple years now, and figured I should write a review
Initially I bought it primarily so that I could add EQ to my HD800S headphones, whilst still utilising ASIO/WASAPI Exclusive outputs of various players.
And since then, despite having tried a large number of other dacs, it stayed as my main source for a handful of reasons.



*Design:*
The design of this dac is compact, sleek, modern, and unobtrusive. It stacks really well with devices such as the THX AAA 789, and its design has clearly been well thought through.
Even simple things like the glowing ring around the volume knob make it incredibly easy and a joy to use. It is in my opinion a nice looking device, without standing out too much. Thereby allowing it to fit in with a wide range of setups. My only small gripe is that the position of the two smaller encoders and how they are used to navigate the menu is a tad awkward at first, but fine once you have gotten used to it.
Other than that there is not too much to say.




*Features:*
This in my opinion should be the main reason to purchase this DAC. It is by far the most feature rich dac I have ever used, with far more features than you would even find in the majority of full-fat media players on a computer.
The DSP volume control on this dac is excellent. Full 32 bit with dithering, in conjunction with the hardware reference level adjustment means that the volume control on this dac is quite likely going to be superior quality to all but the most excellent preamps. I found that I actually had better results by controlling the volume with this dac, and leaving the pot on my amps at max, as the volume control of the ADI-2 was superior to the pots.
The other killer feature is of course, EQ, and not just EQ, but dual EQ, meaning you can have separate EQ curves for the left and right channels, thus allowing for room correction, headphone driver imbalance correction, and even correction of asymmetrical hearing.
It also allows for various levels of crossfeed, channel balance, and selection of different digital filters.
The long and short of it is, just about any DSP feature you could possibly ask for in a two channel system can be done directly on this DAC.




*Sound:*
Of course, the most important aspect of any DAC, how does it sound?
In the case of the ADI-2, it sounds good, very good, with some strings attached. If you are one of the people that believes all dacs that measure well sound the same, i'd suggest you skip this part. The ADI-2 measures excellently and that should be enough.
If however you have ever tried multiple dacs and/or are aware that dacs do not all sound alike, despite what the SINAD chart says, then you will probably be more interested in this.

The ADI-2 is an exceptionally clean, resolving and uncoloured DAC. It is however most certainly taking influence from RME's professional level gear, and giving a reference sound signature. One that will absolutely highlight any flaws in mixes and present music in such a way that it is both incredibly enjoyable, but also quite obvious when something has not been recorded or mastered well.
Out of the box, on the stock "SD Sharp" filter, the ADI-2 dac sounds good, but to my ears somewhat flat and "matter-of-fact". The easiest way to describe it would be to say that it sounds like the HD800 of dacs.
However, change it to the "Slow" filter, and music starts to feel much more alive. Transients are still exceptionally well presented, but the overall signature is a tad less cold and clinical.
If you want to truly make the ADI-2 shine, I would STRONGLY suggest trying some external high quality upsampling, with programs such as HQPlayer.
The inbuilt digital filters are often the weak point of many D/S dacs due to the limited computing power available, and the ADI-2 is no exception. The inbuilt filters are not bad by any means, but using sinc-XTR-mp or sinc-ext2 through HQPlayer led to a much better result. The soundstage opened up, timbre of both vocals and instruments were improved, and it really felt as though the DAC could show off what it could do without being held back by having to use mediocre quality filters for the sake of efficiency.

The high quality sound does not diminish in the slightest when using volume control. The ADI-2 by default will adjust its output reference level such that the minimum amount of DSP is used, but even using DSP alone, the ADI-2 handles low level operation exceedingly well, and so if you are using an ADI-2, there is no need for a preamp or external volume control at all, unless of course you are wanting the preamp for flavouring or output/input selection reasons.

The DAC also does native DSD. And when playing the same song, comparing both native DSD, native PCM, as well as upsampled PCM and DSD, the common descriptors were that DSD sounded more "natural" and enjoyable, but lacked some of the lowend punch and overall attack that PCM displayed.
Internal DSD to PCM conversion was to my ears of poorer quality than any other option and i'd recommend avoiding it.

The ADI-2 does not to my ears sound as "enjoyable" as some less professional oriented products, such as those from chord, or R2R dacs like the holo spring and denafrips ares. But its technical performance, and the ability to tune and customise your sound with its vast array of features could well mean that after some tweaking, the ADI-2 will suit you better than most other options.

In terms of raw sound quality alone, I believe you could get the same quality cheaper, or better quality for the same price, but without any of the wonderful features. However those features are absolutely worth paying for.


*The headphone amp:*
The headphone amp in the ADI-2 is very much a nice addition, and seems to perform about as well as a budget option such as the JDS atom. It has plenty of power, able to drive even more power hungry headphones like the Hifiman Arya and HD800 with no issues at all. However don't expect to be running HE6/susvara.

The headphone amp sounds quite cold and clinical to me. And this is most definitely the amp itself. Even connecting the dac to something like the THX AAA 789, which is known to be a very "clinical" amp, the inbuilt amplifier sounds quite lean in comparison.
Its great to have, but for a dac of this quality, do it some justice and get a decent separate amp.

The IEM port however is a different beast. Unfortunately I do not have too many IEMs, though my personal favourite, the moondrop blessings, sound better through the IEM output port than just about anything else I have tried. It is incredibly clean, musical, and is NOT in any way just a tacked on output port.
Internally it is separate from both the main headphones output, and the rear outputs, so clearly RME put some work into this, and it shows.


*Conclusion:*
The RME ADI-2 is an incredibly feature rich DAC that provides an excellent reference sound, in a small package, for a fair price.
In terms of pure musical enjoyment some other options may surpass it, but it remained as my main DAC due to being unquestionably brilliant in so many ways. Others may sing better, but I can make the ADI-2 sing in any way I like.
With external upsampling the sound quality is vastly improved.

My ADI-2 is being replaced by a Holo May (and any needed DSP will be done in Roon), with which in terms of sound quality the ADI-2 simply cannot compete (though given their pricepoints it would be unfair to expect a fair fight.) But I will absolutely miss the ADI-2 and strongly recommend it without any hesitation.


----------



## Facta (Jun 22, 2020)

The $169 closed-back beyerdynamic DT-150 (sporting an extended bass response 5Hz-30,000Hz in its factory updated version) sounds so good with ADI-2 Pro via unbalanced and Lo-Power. I never thought a sub-$200 pair could sound like a ToTL open-back headphone.  Does Hi-Power add any noise floor over Lo-Power, in general? DT-150 has 250ohm impedance.


----------



## Facta (Jun 21, 2020)

Why can't RME simply release a *DAP* too soon? Or, at least, an *SD card* slot behind ADI-2, much like Poly in combination with Mojo, that can allow playback via a phone app? With a Bluetooth feature added, of course.

On that note, almost all RME portable interfaces like Babyface Pro FS, could, by just adding an SD card slot to themselves, make the lives of a lot of field recorders easier. Sound Devices devices allow this. It would be a shame if RME, with such great internals AD/DA converters and preamps, wouldn't allow quick computer-free recordings for lack of a simple SD card slot.


----------



## Progisus (Jun 21, 2020)

knivek said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations of Canadian sellers for the RME ADI2 Pro FS R BE?  Trying to see how much it would be up here and whether it would be a good fit my my Stellias


Got my RME ADI-2 dac fs from AVShop online. No problems. Was the newest model and remote.


----------



## knivek

It looks like the Pro fs r is a step up though. Trying to find that one specifically


----------



## dakchi

wazzupi said:


> did you try nos in the filter settings to see if it sounded closer to the Ares ?


Yes I tried everything you can imagine. The sound was still thin compared to Ares II with much less air


----------



## sabloke

So Denafrips Ares II plus Topping A90 would be a better SQ solution than ADI-2 FS for IEMs and headphones? I am not that much interested in DSP bells and whistles. All I need is a musical setup with nice lows and decent sound stage and air.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Chu said:


> I've come very close to pulling the trigger, but the one thing stopping me is no bluetooth.  Does anyone know if it's likely we'll see an updated version with Bluetooth anytime soon?



I can't speak for RME, you should ask in the forum. If I had to guess I would say the answer is _when hell freezes over._

This is a pro audio company that just happened to have something they could sell in the hifi market. Gadgets are not their thing.



Facta said:


> Why can't RME simply release a *DAP* too soon? Or, at least, an *SD card* slot behind ADI-2, much like Poly in combination with Mojo, that can allow playback via a phone app? With a Bluetooth feature added, of course.



See above. Asking here won't help, ask on the forum. A DAP from RME? A phone app? _That is never, ever going to happen._


----------



## dakchi

GoldenOne said:


> *Pros:*
> 
> - One of if not the most feature rich DACs on the market
> 
> ...


I share with you everything you said: ADI-2 is an incredibly feature rich DAC and an excellent value, but with cold and somehow analytical sound. I did everything I could to make the sound more enjoyable but did not succeed. I still prefer the sound of my other DAC (Ares II). I think that RME tried with this DAC to provide an affordable DAC with the same tunning as their professional line. There are people who like this kind of tunning, not me. I like warm sound where every note has a good weight


----------



## dakchi

sabloke said:


> So Denafrips Ares II plus Topping A90 would be a better SQ solution than ADI-2 FS for IEMs and headphones? I am not that much interested in DSP bells and whistles. All I need is a musical setup with nice lows and decent sound stage and air.


I can't say for headphones, but for speakers I prefer the tunning of Ares II over the one of ADI-2. There is nothing like one DAC is better than another one. Each DAC has its own tunning and it all depends on the kind of sound you prefer


----------



## Cevisi

wazzupi said:


> did you try nos in the filter settings to see if it sounded closer to the Ares ?


What does the nos filter do ? How does it sound compared to the nomal sharp filter ?


----------



## Tuneslover

dakchi said:


> I share with you everything you said: ADI-2 is an incredibly feature rich DAC and an excellent value, but with cold and somehow analytical sound. I did everything I could to make the sound more enjoyable but did not succeed. I still prefer the sound of my other DAC (Ares II). I think that RME tried with this DAC to provide an affordable DAC with the same tunning as their professional line. There are people who like this kind of tunning, not me. I like warm sound where every note has a good weight


Have you tried this DAC with a warm external amp like the Violectric V280 or other comparable amps?  If so, what are your thoughts


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Tuneslover said:


> Have you tried this DAC with a warm external amp like the Violectric V280 or other comparable amps?  If so, what are your thoughts



Not 100% the answer you are looking for, but close:


----------



## Tuneslover

CaptainFantastic said:


> Not 100% the answer you are looking for, but close:



Did the reviewer even talk about the RME & V280 combo?  I had the DROP 789AAA amp but didn't like the hyper clinical sound of that amp and returned it.  I much prefer my Lake People G109S amp pairing with the RME.  Assuming the V280 will continue the LP sound characteristic but better.


----------



## Swisshead

I now have the ADI running with the iFi iCan Pro. All I can say is, simply perfect! The fact that the DAC is neutral and does not artificially bring in heat or anything else fits perfectly. I can do this via iCan in tube mode if desired.

What I really appreciate is that I can still use all possible settings such as EQ, loudness, bass/treble controls. Although, to be honest, I have hardly used it at all so far. On the iCan I can switch on the X-Bass if necessary, and it works great too.

For me such a TOTL combination and completely satisfied.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Tuneslover said:


> Did the reviewer even talk about the RME & V280 combo?  I had the DROP 789AAA amp but didn't like the hyper clinical sound of that amp and returned it.  I much prefer my Lake People G109S amp pairing with the RME.  Assuming the V280 will continue the LP sound characteristic but better.



Right, sorry. Wrong video. This is the comparison one:


----------



## Swisshead (Jun 22, 2020)

I'm convinced it couldn't be better. Unless you spend well over 10000 USD on it!

For me here TOTL achieved!


----------



## dakchi

Tuneslover said:


> Have you tried this DAC with a warm external amp like the Violectric V280 or other comparable amps?  If so, what are your thoughts


No I didn't


----------



## Tuneslover

CaptainFantastic said:


> Right, sorry. Wrong video. This is the comparison one:



I have seen this review before so this was a good refresher.  It actually helped me decide to go with the V280 (especially when Massdrop/Violectric knocked $500 off the price).  I am looking for more musicality and warmth in sound so according to this reviewer that is precisely what I should expect.  If I want more analytical detail I can simply use the RME amp for those times.  Without a doubt I found the RME & Drop THX789 amp combo too clinical sounding lacking heart and soul.


----------



## Cevisi

after installing the driver my adi 2 doesnt change sample rate anymore what should i do ?


----------



## Redwingnine (Jun 22, 2020)

Tuneslover said:


> Have you tried this DAC with a warm external amp like the Violectric V280 or other comparable amps?  If so, what are your thoughts




I use the ADI-2 with a Mjolnir Audio Pure Bipolar for headphones, which, along with being slightly on the warm side, is one the very best external headphone amps available.  For stereo playback, I use the ADI-2 with a tube amp setup, which consists of a Thomas Meyer 6AH4 clone preamp, and a pair of 1625 quad mono power amps.  Very happy with sound from both options.  Vocals can sound realistic, horns and strings have a natural timbre, and most importantly, treble sounds extended without being overly harsh.  The brittle treble is my issue with many of the R2R DACs I've heard. 

IMHO, all DAC's that support headphone use SHOULD have a built in graphic equalizer to flatten out the response of one's given preferred headphones.  All headphones deviate from neutral (more so than speakers), so EQ applied correctly can only help enhance the listening experience.  Applied incorrectly, it will detract from the playback.  I became convinced that EQ works when I came across the Sonarworks products.  The improvement when using the True Fi app when listening to music via the computer was very eye opening.  

With the ADI-2, after entering the EQ curve for the Focal Stellia, I was amazed with the overall improvement provided compared to not using EQ.  As good as the Stellia cans are, they sound better with the proper EQ. 

Now, take into account ones age and actual hearing range, EQ for headphones to me makes a lot of sense.  Why spend big $$$ and not get the best out the system?


----------



## wazzupi

Cevisi said:


> after installing the driver my adi 2 doesnt change sample rate anymore what should i do ?


Same


----------



## Cevisi

wazzupi said:


> Same


i deinstalled it and it still dont work yesterday it worked perfect


----------



## G8torbyte

Cevisi said:


> i deinstalled it and it still dont work yesterday it worked perfect





Cevisi said:


> after installing the driver my adi 2 doesnt change sample rate anymore what should i do ?



I use Foobar 2000 as a player in Windows and noticed something similar when I selected the output driver as "ASIO MADIface USB."   It only allows 44100 Hz on playback even if you try to select a different sample rate with the RME MADIface settings app.
When I choose another playback driver/device option such as WASAPI it does allow different sample rates for playback.


----------



## Cevisi

Before i installed the driver everything worked fine tidal youtube spotify


G8torbyte said:


> I use Foobar 2000 as a player in Windows and noticed something similar when I selected the output driver as "ASIO MADIface USB."   It only allows 44100 Hz on playback even if you try to select a different sample rate with the RME MADIface settings app.
> When I choose another playback driver/device option such as WASAPI it does allow different sample rates for playback.


----------



## iFi audio

Swisshead said:


> I now have the ADI running with the iFi iCan Pro. All I can say is, simply perfect! The fact that the DAC is neutral and does not artificially bring in heat or anything else fits perfectly. I can do this via iCan in tube mode if desired.



Very cool, thanks and enjoy!



Swisshead said:


> For me here TOTL achieved!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Tuneslover said:


> Have you tried this DAC with a warm external amp like the Violectric V280 or other comparable amps?  If so, what are your thoughts



The V280 is not warm. It's just not cold. I run mine off a Brooklyn DAC+ and have not tried it with my RME but from what I have heard so far it would be a very good match for the RME. It is a killer amp and is a good match for almost anything.

Strictly speaking the RME is not analytical as far as DACs go. It doesn't miss anything but the delivery is amazingly musical with the slightest ethereal trace of warmth. It's too smooth and too graceful to be called analytical. YMMV.



Cevisi said:


> after installing the driver my adi 2 doesnt change sample rate anymore what should i do ?



This is a known "feature" of the ASIO drivers for RME. You can live with it or use coax or optical.


----------



## Cevisi

gimmeheadroom said:


> The V280 is not warm. It's just not cold. I run mine off a Brooklyn DAC+ and have not tried it with my RME but from what I have heard so far it would be a very good match for the RME. It is a killer amp and is a good match for almost anything.
> 
> Strictly speaking the RME is not analytical as far as DACs go. It doesn't miss anything but the delivery is amazingly musical with the slightest ethereal trace of warmth. It's too smooth and too graceful to be called analytical. YMMV.
> 
> ...


My k5pro does change bitrate automatically with asio drivers

Even uninstalling doesn't help. I have to clean install my windows now and never touch that driver again or look for another device. I can hear artifacts and somtimes stutter since that driver was installed


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jun 23, 2020)

Cevisi said:


> My k5pro does change bitrate automatically with asio drivers
> 
> Even uninstalling doesn't help. I have to clean install my windows now and never touch that driver again or look for another device. I can hear artifacts and somtimes stutter since that driver was installed



It has nothing to do with ASIO, it has to do with RME's implementation of ASIO. As I said, this is a known problem. Talking about it here won't help. Go and join the guys including me who complained about it on the RME forums. It also won't help 

As far as artifacts or any other negative of the ASIO drivers, I have not seen or heard any and I have not read any reports of them.


----------



## Cevisi

gimmeheadroom said:


> It has nothing to do with ASIO, it has to do with RME's implementation of ASIO. As I said, this is a known problem. Talking about it here won't help. Go and join the guys including me who complained about it on the RME forums. It also won't help
> 
> As far as artifacts or any other negative of the ASIO drivers, I have not seen or heard any and I have not read any reports of them.


I told my problems in the forum and got bashed by the representative................


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> I told my problems in the forum and got bashed by the representative................



Welcome to the club


----------



## Cevisi

gimmeheadroom said:


> Welcome to the club


Matthias Carstens co founder

Thank you for welcoming... They didn't


----------



## Light - Man

Cevisi said:


> I told my problems in the forum and got bashed by the representative................


Shush, you will just upset the die hard fanboys on HF.   

Which forum is that, is it on HF? 

Anyway, I see no reason why you and others don't mention issues that you have on here, I am sure that many people who have it or are considering it would like to know.....................


----------



## Cevisi (Jun 23, 2020)

Light - Man said:


> Shush, you will just upset the die hard fanboys on HF.
> 
> Which forum is that, is it on HF?
> 
> Anyway, I see no reason why you and others don't mention issues that you have on here, I am sure that many people who have it or are considering it would like to know.....................


It was in the rme forum. He dont even tried to help.


----------



## Cevisi

Let me say that for people who want to buy it. After installing the drivers this device is not able to change sample rate. 

Uninstalling doesn't help you will be stuck

You will google the problem and see this rme guy saying. Its windows fault its tidals fault they don't support asio

But wait my fiio k5 pro works also on asio and changes the bitrate on windows and tidal


But this device still sounds good


----------



## gimmeheadroom

When I uninstalled the RME ASIO drivers the rate switching started to work again. I want the ASIO drivers so I use them and I only play foobar2000 on my RME, or youtube from Linux over optical and the sample rate display is correct. For Tidal where the rate can change the RME ASIO drivers stop the rate change from displaying correctly.

For Tidal I use a Brooklyn DAC+ with MQA. It shows correct sample rate and bit depth for everything including MQA...

If one device could do it all our hobby would be boring and we would have a lot more money


----------



## Cevisi

gimmeheadroom said:


> When I uninstalled the RME ASIO drivers the rate switching started to work again. I want the ASIO drivers so I use them and I only play foobar2000 on my RME, or youtube from Linux over optical and the sample rate display is correct. For Tidal where the rate can change the RME ASIO drivers stop the rate change from displaying correctly.
> 
> For Tidal I use a Brooklyn DAC+ with MQA. It shows correct sample rate and bit depth for everything including MQA...
> 
> If one device could do it all our hobby would be boring and we would have a lot more money


For me it didn't work uninstalling i will clean install my whole windows new


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> For me it didn't work uninstalling i will clean install my whole windows new



That sounds like too much work.


----------



## Cevisi

gimmeheadroom said:


> That sounds like too much work.


Not really i do this once a year i have some routine and i am a pc geek 20 minutes and i am done


----------



## arielext

Cevisi said:


> Not really i do this once a year i have some routine and i am a pc geek 20 minutes and i am done


is that that magical thing called a 'back-up' some people always talk about?


----------



## Cevisi

arielext said:


> is that that magical thing called a 'back-up' some people always talk about?


No i have no backup images


----------



## Noobzilla

Just played with the EQ for the first time. Fun and good stuff!


----------



## Cevisi

Noobzilla said:


> Just played with the EQ for the first time. Fun and good stuff!


Thats a lot of bass


----------



## Noobzilla

Cevisi said:


> Thats a lot of bass


I was adjusting the EQ with lower than my usual volume. Fixed it to +5 now


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Noobzilla said:


> Just played with the EQ for the first time. Fun and good stuff!



Basshead


----------



## wazzupi

MOOOARRRR BBBAAASSSSSSSSSSS


----------



## G8torbyte

Noobzilla said:


> Just played with the EQ for the first time. Fun and good stuff!





The ability to tweak the EQ with detailed frequency adjustments on the RME are a fantastic feature. Very useful feature especially with hearing impaired or like me with age my hearing loss is progressing in certain frequencies.  Also the RME allows asymmetric EQ settings for each left or right channel. 
I usually start with a slight V signature and then do minor adjustments with the bass/treble dials for each headphone.


----------



## Noobzilla

G8torbyte said:


> The ability to tweak the EQ with detailed frequency adjustments on the RME are a fantastic feature. Very useful feature especially with hearing impaired or like me with age my hearing loss is progressing in certain frequencies.  Also the RME allows asymmetric EQ settings for each left or right channel.
> I usually start with a slight V signature and then do minor adjustments with the bass/treble dials for each headphone.



I notice you have THX AAA-789. Is it better amp when connected to the ADI-2? Been thinking whether to get an amp for the ADI-2.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

The ADI-2 amp is not enough for certain headphones. Certainly a strong outboard amp is a good idea if you have cans that the RME doesn't drive well.


----------



## frogmeat69

gimmeheadroom said:


> The ADI-2 amp is not enough for certain headphones. Certainly a strong outboard amp is a good idea if you have cans that the RME doesn't drive well.


But those types of headphones are the exception rather than the rule, the RME on high power mode can drive most cans pretty darn good.


----------



## Slaphead

Noobzilla said:


> Just played with the EQ for the first time. Fun and good stuff!



That is wrong on so many levels.

Read this before posting anymore EQ photos - https://blog.landr.com/eq-basics-everything-musicians-need-know-eq/


----------



## betula

frogmeat69 said:


> But those types of headphones are the exception rather than the rule, the RME on high power mode can drive most cans pretty darn good.


I agree with this. If you are after a clean and dynamic sound the RME can drive 80% of headphones without a sweat and without needing an external amp. If you prefer flavour over technicalities, you might want to add an amp to the RME which is fine. But it is not needed, unless you are after a certain flavour. The remaining 20% (Abyss, Susvara) well, in that case I guess you already own a few amps above 1-2K anyway.


----------



## Cevisi

i drive my DT 1990 pro between -30 to -20 db it goes till +10 so i have a headroom of 40-30 db. and the 1990 are not the easiest headphone to driver so yea i think the amp is really good for 80% stuff out there


----------



## Redwingnine

The built in headphone amps with the RME ADI-2 are simply not as high quality as the DAC portion of the unit.  Having sufficient power to drive a given headphone is NOT the same as driving the headphone to it's maximum potential.  I've tried the built in headphone amp outputs (IEM and Phones) with Focal Elear and Focal Stellia headphones, and compared those to using a Mjolnir Audio Pure Bipolar amp with the ADI-2.  It was no contest.  The Pure Bipolar far exceeds the built in headphone amps.  

The ADI-2 with the Pure Bipolar is a outstanding combination, one of the best sounding for headphones I've come across.


----------



## Satcher

TBH, I was actually much happier driving the Utopias from the RME ADI-2 DAC instead of the Woo Audio 8 Eclipse and compared to an amp like the HDV 820, the HD800's were even more fantastic as well out of the 1/4" jack in hi-power mode. I do prefer a purely reference sound, and while nice goblets of high resolution power make for an entertaining experience with the drivers going all out, long listening sessions are rewarding with the ADI-2 DAC's realistic/lighter touch. Not saying it's the end of my personal audio journey (I do wish to obtain a Benchmark HPA4 someday and the SPL Phonitor X was a perfect partner for the Abyss Phi TC from a power aspect), but the unit is absolutely fantastic for my needs and makes any IEM I listen to sound the way they should. It really does blend in with the many things you give it, which to others can be a detriment to seeking a different audio experience through new gears they purchase.


----------



## Noobzilla

I'm considering getting a Monolith Liquid Platinum or Rupert Neve Designs RNHP amp for the ADI-2. Tube sounds fun since I can buy tubes to experiment with the sound.


----------



## wazzupi

Noobzilla said:


> I'm considering getting a Monolith Liquid Platinum or Rupert Neve Designs RNHP amp for the ADI-2. Tube sounds fun since I can buy tubes to experiment with the sound.


Rebel amp? or Topping A90 if you're looking for SS


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Noobzilla said:


> I'm considering getting a Monolith Liquid Platinum or Rupert Neve Designs RNHP amp for the ADI-2. Tube sounds fun since I can buy tubes to experiment with the sound.



I would suggest skipping the in-between step (the LP is a hybrid amp) and going for a true tube amp like Woo Audio WA 2 or WA6.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

frogmeat69 said:


> But those types of headphones are the exception rather than the rule, the RME on high power mode can drive most cans pretty darn good.



Well, I have Sennheiser 600s and 800s that don't sound good out of the RME. I stand by what I said. It depends on what headphones you have whether the RME amp section will be good enough or not. Just saying it's fine for most headphones isn't helpful.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Noobzilla said:


> I'm considering getting a Monolith Liquid Platinum or Rupert Neve Designs RNHP amp for the ADI-2. Tube sounds fun since I can buy tubes to experiment with the sound.



For which cans?


----------



## Noobzilla

wazzupi said:


> Rebel amp? or Topping A90 if you're looking for SS


Considered D90 + A90 combo in the past but iirc I read it was a bit bright. I wanted an all-in-one solution so got the ADI-2 but I've been so impressed with everything that I'm willing to spend just a bit more to see how much more I could push my new headphones. 



gimmeheadroom said:


> For which cans?


Meze Empyreans. It's already a warm headphones overall so I'm reading that people generally prefer to pair it with solid state amps. But despite people saying I won't need any more bass with it, I'm a basshead so I EQ'd more bass. I like being able to feel the bass without blasting all other sounds. It comes with two pads. The leather pads being warmer and the alcantara being more detailed. Right now I prefer the alcantara with ADI-2 EQ boost on bass. I might have offended some people with my previous EQ pic with ridiculous spike lol. I'm told to not post anymore EQ pics but after figuring out how to play with the settings I'm able to finally get a smoother curve without affecting frequency past 50hz. I like this one for my headphones and ears.  






I'm sort of leaning towards the Liquid Platinum because it is balanced and I can change the tubes. I will get copper and silver cables but not sure on termination (XLR or 1/4" jack). Getting adapters will cost me extra and balanced amp may not even be better for my headphones. From what I'm reading, it seems that high impedance headphones get the most benefit from balanced connection and that single ended connection is just as good if amp implementation is good. With this hobby there's always the "what ifs" in pursuit of "better" sound. I like to experiment but also do not want to waste money.


----------



## Slaphead

Noobzilla said:


> I'm told to not post anymore EQ pics



Oh, I was just kidding, mostly. Post as many as you like  But just try to keep in mind that with EQ less is very often more.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cables are definitely a waste of money if you want to change the way headphones sound.

I guess based on the specifications the RME has plenty amp for the Empyreans. Since the RME is rare in having EQ and you already have it, probably no reason to buy a separate amp. Especially tube hybrids, although they are suitable for driving low impedance cans, will not change the sound or be tubey nearly as much as OTL amps in most cases. And the Empyreans are already considered warm. Going tube seems like a bad idea.


----------



## frogmeat69 (Jun 27, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well, I have Sennheiser 600s and 800s that don't sound good out of the RME. I stand by what I said. It depends on what headphones you have whether the RME amp section will be good enough or not. Just saying it's fine for most headphones isn't helpful.


I am saying in high power the RME will drive most headphones loud enough, you may prefer a tube amp for your Senns, but the RME will get my pair of HD650 to deafening levels, along with most of my headphones. Your sound or distortion flavor isn't factored into what I'm talking about.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

frogmeat69 said:


> I am saying in high power the RME will drive most headphones loud enough, you may prefer a tube amp for your Senns, but the RME will get my pair of HD650 to deafening levels, along with most of my headphones. Your sound or distortion flavor isn't factored into what I'm talking about.



Volume isn't the problem with Sennheisers. They sound lifeless out of the RME even though they get loud enough.


----------



## Slim1970

gimmeheadroom said:


> Cables are definitely a waste of money if you want to change the way headphones sound.
> 
> I guess based on the specifications the RME has plenty amp for the Empyreans. Since the RME is rare in having EQ and you already have it, probably no reason to buy a separate amp. Especially tube hybrids, although they are suitable for driving low impedance cans, will not change the sound or be tubey nearly as much as OTL amps in most cases. And the Empyreans are already considered warm. Going tube seems like a bad idea.


I wouldn't call cables a waste of money, but I will say that they should be the last tweak you should make. Dacs and amps will alter the sound the most and should be give priority over cables in building a system. Once you get your front end to sound the way you want it, then start looking for cable upgrades to fine tune that sound.


----------



## Slim1970

gimmeheadroom said:


> Volume isn't the problem with Sennheisers. They sound lifeless out of the RME even though they get loud enough.


Agreed, my HD600 sound horrible with the RME. I cannot figure this pairing out.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Slim1970 said:


> Agreed, my HD600 sound horrible with the RME. I cannot figure this pairing out.



I guess they don't swing enough voltage but I don't know the real answer. But I had this happen with several different amps and I now realize it immediately if an amp doesn't have enough guts. Oddly, have not observed the same thing on any non-Sennheiser headphones.


----------



## Slim1970

gimmeheadroom said:


> I guess they don't swing enough voltage but I don't know the real answer. But I had this happen with several different amps and I now realize it immediately if an amp doesn't have enough guts. Oddly, have not observed the same thing on any non-Sennheiser headphones.


Same here, the RME plays nicely with just about every headphone in my collection except the harder to drive ones. Even with those, they don't sound bad out of the RME, just under powered. 

I'm listening to the Obravo's Ra C-Cu's on the the RME and they sound they sound like full-sized headphones, simply magical. On the TT2, 3XR, H2 and my LP the Obravo's sound like crap. That's another weird phenomenon I'm trying to figure out.


----------



## rickydenim

Pretty close to pulling the trigger on one of these. Just deciding on which setup I'll use it and if I should go the pro model. 

Studio - I do home recording and currently use a Scarlett 2I4 interface to my monitors. The DAW I use is Studio One and unfortunately it only allows 1 interface for I/O. I would really like a better DAC/Headphone amp to playback my mixes and for the odd music session in there. I was thinking if I got the pro, I could use the RCA unbalanced from my 2I4 into the RMW and use it for headphone amp, then switch Windows 10 playback to the RME for music playback.

Lounge/Listening - I have a HT setup but also my 2 channel for my turntable into an integrated. Thinking I could put the RME DAC in here and use it for headphone listening from either DVD player source or streaming service (android phone). Again, if I got the pro I 'could' put my turntable pre into it too however I do have a good separate headphone amp (Heed Canamp) I'm using. 

Headphone wise I have the Focal Elegia, Q701 and Momentum 2.0 - so nothing too difficult to drive. 

Maybe I need 2 of these! haha


----------



## canfabulous

rickydenim said:


> Maybe I need 2 of these! haha



That’s what I was thinking when I read your post... !!


----------



## sabloke

Got my ADI-2 FS today. With EIR-Z1R, total bliss on the IEM port. I thought the Fiio M11 Pro is good and it is, but the German wonder box is on another level.


----------



## Matias (Jun 29, 2020)

rickydenim said:


> Pretty close to pulling the trigger on one of these. Just deciding on which setup I'll use it and if I should go the pro model.
> 
> Studio - I do home recording and currently use a Scarlett 2I4 interface to my monitors. The DAW I use is Studio One and unfortunately it only allows 1 interface for I/O. I would really like a better DAC/Headphone amp to playback my mixes and for the odd music session in there. I was thinking if I got the pro, I could use the RCA unbalanced from my 2I4 into the RMW and use it for headphone amp, then switch Windows 10 playback to the RME for music playback.
> 
> ...


Studio:
I ordered my ADI-2 DAC, it still did not arrive, but I plan to use it with a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen through digital SPDIF RCA coax into the ADI-2 DAC. IMO I think this is a better combo: ADI-2 DAC (1,150 usd) + Focusrite 8i6 (300 usd) = 1,450 usd and still lower priced than an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE (1,999 usd).

As for DAW, maybe switch to Cakewalk, since it is now free, and use as many interface inputs you like?
https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I don't get it. Why do you want to run a USB audio interface into a DAC? Of course the Pro version DAC with ADC costs more, it is betrer than the focusrite.


----------



## Matias (Jun 29, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't get it. Why do you want to run a USB audio interface into a DAC? Of course the Pro version DAC with ADC costs more, it is betrer than the focusrite.


Because the ADI-2 Pro is an AD converter, it records line level signals only, it does not have preamps or phantom power for recording instruments or condenser microphones as an audio interface does. And only 2 channels.
The good thing of combining a multi-channel audio interface into ADI-2 DAC is using its better DA converters and headphone amp for monitoring.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Matias said:


> Because the ADI-2 Pro is an AD converter, it records line level signals only, it does not have preamps or phantom power for recording instruments or condenser microphones as an audio interface does. And only 2 channels.
> The good thing of combining a multi-channel audio interface into ADI-2 DAC is using its better DA converters and headphone amp for monitoring.



Yes, but if you had the Pro you could create DSD recordings.


----------



## Forsaked

Just ordered a RME ADI 2 DAC FS, can't wait to try it out.
My M200 + SP200 will be going to my office workplace.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Forsaked said:


> Just ordered a RME ADI 2 DAC FS, can't wait to try it out.
> My M200 + SP200 will be going to my office workplace.



There is no need to try it out. We already know how great it is 

Congrats and welcome to the club!


----------



## CaptainFantastic (Jun 29, 2020)

Forsaked said:


> Just ordered a RME ADI 2 DAC FS, can't wait to try it out.
> My M200 + SP200 will be going to my office workplace.



Congrats! 

Curious, what does Roon do for you in that set-up - PC->Roon->RME->Headphones? 

My very specific question is: 

How is it better than PC running Qobuz/OwnLibrary/Tidal/Whatever->RME->Headphones? 

Is it just that you are streaming to somewhere away from the PC using Roon? Do you gain anything at all using Roon if your whole setup is next to the PC?


----------



## Forsaked (Jun 29, 2020)

CaptainFantastic said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Curious, what does Roon do for you in that set-up - PC->Roon->RME->Headphones?
> 
> ...



Roon is a nice piece of software and put together my own library, TIDAL and Quboz at one place, with nice metadata features.
Before that i used Foobar2000 and the standalone apps of both streaming services, but after trying Roon i sticked to it.
I have some endpoints like Sonos speakers and a Raspberry Pi connected to my AVReceiver in my hobby room which is practicaly a home cinema.
Also i can play thngs on my mobile devices from my Roon library, while connected via VPN back to my home.


----------



## rickydenim

Matias said:


> Studio:
> I ordered my ADI-2 DAC, it still did not arrive, but I plan to use it with a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen through digital SPDIF RCA coax into the ADI-2 DAC. IMO I think this is a better combo: ADI-2 DAC (1,150 usd) + Focusrite 8i6 (300 usd) = 1,450 usd and still lower priced than an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE (1,999 usd).
> 
> As for DAW, maybe switch to Cakewalk, since it is now free, and use as many interface inputs you like?
> https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk


This is a great idea. You are right, a much better option than going for the pro. Like you, I need the mic pres/phantom power of the Scarlett also.

This would give the best of both worlds!


----------



## sabloke (Jun 30, 2020)

My current work desk. Room for two HEDD Type 05 monitors set aside. In the meantime IEMs and cans will do just fine


----------



## Bullpride

I just picked up the 2019 version used and it should be here by Thursday.  I am super excited!!

The ADI will be replacing Drop LCX + Grace SDAC in my chain.  

PC(Audrivana)>>ADI-2>>BHC>>Atticus
I am hoping the ADI can drive the Atticus decently during days I tinkering/upgrading the BHC.  I know won't be ideal, but am hoping it won't be significant drop off from the liquid carbon to the ADI amp section. 

If anyone is interested, the LCX+SDAC is going up on in the classifies today/tomorrow as soon as I can snap some pics. 

So happy to join the RME club!


----------



## Tuneslover

Bullpride said:


> I just picked up the 2019 version used and it should be here by Thursday.  I am super excited!!
> 
> The ADI will be replacing Drop LCX + Grace SDAC in my chain.
> 
> ...


Welcome aboard mate!


----------



## Forsaked (Jul 1, 2020)

Here we go, now i need to set it up and take some listening:






I am still reading the manual, does anyone has some useful settings recommendations?
Like @Cevisi told me about the Auto Reference Mode which switches between low and high gain automatically based on the volume level.


----------



## darmccombs

Forsaked said:


> Here we go, now i need to set it up and take some listening:
> 
> I am still reading the manual, does anyone has some useful settings recommendations?
> Like @Cevisi told me about the Auto Reference Mode which switches between low and high gain automatically based on the volume level.


If you want to use the EQ, here is a link to settings for numerous headphones.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-thread.868015/page-163#post-15633731


----------



## Swisshead

*Update Adi-2 DAC Version 1 to Version 2:*

I received a new DAC V2 yesterday. Before I had the V1, which I bought in 2018. Was one of the first who had it. I could sell the old one well, so I bought the V2.

Reason was the new chip 4493 and the better signal to noise ratio as preamplifier. I only need it via iFi Pro iCan. Also the new remote control is nice.

Yesterday I tested it briefly. Optically exactly the same. It also came with the latest software version. Meaning that RME will start shipping at the end of May 2020. 

What you notice immediately, the relay circuits sound different. Apparently I was reworked, although it doesn't say so anywhere. You also notice immediately that the two buttons feel completely different. Feel more precise, run a bit stricter than the old ones, overall a better feeling.

I made the same settings for the line-out as for the old one. It is now less sensitive to overmodulation at the analog output. 

Sound: It's hard to hear a difference to the old one. The feeling is slightly better when you listen to music very loud. But it could just as well be a placebo effect, I wouldn't let it get to me. But I think the distortions at high volume are lower.

Is it worth switching from V1 to V2? If you can't sell the old one very well, it's not worth it. The differences are too small. Yes the new remote control is successful. However, I only need it very rarely. If you use it as a pure DAC and preamplifier, it can be helpful that the signal-to-noise ratio is a bit lower. But as I said, from a listening point of view there is hardly any difference. Therefore I think rather NO. 

But otherwise it is already a great device and especially if you use it as a pure DAC, ingenious with all the adjustment possibilities.

https://audioxpress.com/news/rme-updates-adi-2-dac-and-rme-babyface-pro-interface-with-fs-models


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Swisshead said:


> *Update Adi-2 DAC Version 1 to Version 2:*
> 
> I received a new DAC V2 yesterday. Before I had the V1, which I bought in 2018. Was one of the first who had it. I could sell the old one well, so I bought the V2.
> 
> ...



Huh, I got a V2 from the very first batch that Thomann.de received, about 6 months ago... this is old news.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> Huh, I got a V2 from the very first batch that Thomann.de received, about 6 months ago... this is old news.



What is old news? He is comparing v1 with v2 and he is providing his opinion on the differences.


----------



## Light - Man

gimmeheadroom said:


> Huh, I got a V2 from the very first batch that Thomann.de received, about 6 months ago... *this is old news*.


It is also another opinion. BTW, why don't you show us the old news so that we can compare..............


----------



## Swisshead

gimmeheadroom said:


> Huh, I got a V2 from the very first batch that Thomann.de received, about 6 months ago... this is old news.



I just wanted to say that my dealer always has bake-fresh equipment in stock. It's not a given. So I was surprised to get a device with the installed software from mid-May, the latest version. So a very fresh device!  

Yes, of course the V2 is available since November, I spent the day to find out the difference between V1 and V2 and if it is worth changing.


----------



## Facta

Dogmatrix said:


> Nothing to worry about , just set the mac vol to full and forget about it . If the levels on the input screen peak red too much just back off the mac vol a little



Only in VLC use, this issue. RME ADI takes over and Mac has no volume control with all other apps in USB DAC.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Light - Man said:


> It is also another opinion. BTW, why don't you show us the old news so that we can compare..............



You can see it in the link he posted, dated November 2019. And also upthread 



CaptainFantastic said:


> What is old news? He is comparing v1 with v2 and he is providing his opinion on the differences.



It's old news presented as he just got the first unit and has some bulletin. Seriously, this thread is 193 pages for a reason. Whether there is a difference in sound quality was discussed when the first devices found homes. And I pointed out several times that RME said there is no audible difference.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> You can see it in the link he posted, dated November 2019. And also upthread



But what did you mean when you said that "this is old news"? He did not claim to bring us the news that a new version of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS is available. He literally provided us with the results of his daylong testing between v1 and v2? They are his results, his opinions. Even if something along the same lines was posted before (and the thing about the volume knob, etc. most definitely hasn't been said), there is value to the community in having additional reviews and impressions.

Instead of brushing this off, can you please explain why you shot off a short message dismissing his review (therefore effectively discouraging these kinds of posts) as old news? I have absolutely ZERO interest in starting a disagreement. I am here for the hobby, for the enjoyment. You are a valuable member of the community from everything I have read. I would just like you to consider that a lesson might need to be learned here.



gimmeheadroom said:


> It's old news presented as he just got the first unit and has some bulletin. Seriously, this thread is 193 pages for a reason. Whether there is a difference in sound quality was discussed when the first devices found homes. And I pointed out several times that RME said there is no audible difference.



We were responding to each other's messages at the same time.  OK, I see, but I respectfully disagree. There was a lot of detail in his review and I, for one, very much appreciate the time he took to test, review and post his impressions here. I would like to see more people do this.


----------



## acguitar84

It works for me too - people posting impressions as much as possible. Where I live, impressions are basically all I have to go on, impressions, user reviews and "expert" reviews.


----------



## Slaphead

acguitar84 said:


> It works for me too - people posting impressions as much as possible. Where I live, impressions are basically all I have to go on, impressions, user reviews and "expert" reviews.



OK, if you haven't got one already then see if you can find a cheap second hand V1 of the ADI-2 DAC. The V2 improvements are paper only improvements in that they have no real world application. To my ears both the V1 and V2 sound identical


----------



## Chu (Jul 4, 2020)

Just upgraded to an ADI-2 DAC from an original Compass.  I've been away from the hobby for a while but when searching for a good combo unit for work kind of went off the deep end.  Also have a couple headphones in the mail.  RIP my wallet.

Anyways, two quick questions!

1.  How long does it take to get used to a digital volume control?  I honestly am finding it a little disconcerting.  I'm used to knowing exactly where on the dial safe and unsafe listening levels are, and what I'm getting at each position.  I just feel a little lost with a digital volume control, but as a side effect I find myself listening at much lower levels (-39dB) which I guess is a plus.  These are also massively better than the Compass at lower listening levels which I guess is also its own post.

2.  So I was interesting in a 2nd AC adapter to make moving the unit between two computers as easy as possible.  The AC adapter direct from RME is $60!  Is there anything special about it?  Anyone know what a comparable unit would be?

BTW, I am using these with the HD600s.  And while they are voiced massively differently than they were on the Compass (that deserves its own post) I don't think these are a bad match like several previous posters have said.  My biggest issue is that they're pushing vocals way further back in the mix than I would like.  It's almost like they brought out some of that mysterious Sennheiser Veil that people always complained about but I never really noticed.  But considering I'm getting used to a new amp after literally a decade there would likely be some level of unlearning to do no matter what.


----------



## Slaphead

Chu said:


> 2.  So I was interesting in a 2nd AC adapter to make moving the unit between two computers as easy as possible.  The AC adapter direct from RME is $60!  Is there anything special about it?  Anyone know what a comparable unit would be?



Just order any piece of crap power supply from Amazon that meets the specs, and good luck.

Or maybe just buy the RME PSU which is specced exactly for the DAC. Honestly you've probably just paid the best part of $1000 for the DAC and if the $60 for a spare PSU is breaking the bank then maybe the DAC wasn't affordable for you in the first place.

I make no apologies if this seems rude as I've seen way too many people screw themselves financially through an expensive hobby simply because they had GAS and couldn't control it.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Chu said:


> BTW, I am using these with the HD600s.  And while they are voiced massively differently than they were on the Compass (that deserves its own post) I don't think these are a bad match like several previous posters have said.  My biggest issue is that they're pushing vocals way further back in the mix than I would like.  It's almost like they brought out some of that mysterious Sennheiser Veil that people always complained about but I never really noticed.  But considering I'm getting used to a new amp after literally a decade there would likely be some level of unlearning to do no matter what.



If you hear a veil, if they sound lifeless or strange, this is exactly what I said. The RME doesn't drive them well. You seem to be agreeing with that rather than disagreeing, but I'll leave the conclusion to you


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jul 4, 2020)

CaptainFantastic said:


> But what did you mean when you said that "this is old news"? He did not claim to bring us the news that a new version of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS is available.



Really? Bold type and link to a review? Somebody reading this who doesn't know the history could find it very confusing. Sorry, that post really hit me the wrong way.

*Update Adi-2 DAC Version 1 to Version 2:*


----------



## Cevisi

Chu said:


> Just upgraded to an ADI-2 DAC from an original Compass.  I've been away from the hobby for a while but when searching for a good combo unit for work kind of went off the deep end.  Also have a couple headphones in the mail.  RIP my wallet.
> 
> Anyways, two quick questions!
> 
> ...


I heard often that the adi dont pair well with sennheisers


----------



## technobear

Cevisi said:


> I heard often that the adi dont pair well with sennheisers


No. What you heard is approximately 2 people going on and on and on about how they personally didn't like the sound they heard from that combination. Let's not blow it up into some great divine truth because it really isn't.


----------



## Chu

Slaphead said:


> Or maybe just buy the RME PSU which is specced exactly for the DAC. Honestly you've probably just paid the best part of $1000 for the DAC and if the $60 for a spare PSU is breaking the bank then maybe the DAC wasn't affordable for you in the first place.
> 
> I make no apologies if this seems rude as I've seen way too many people screw themselves financially through an expensive hobby simply because they had GAS and couldn't control it.



Replacing an original Compass, almost a decade old at this point, into HD600s, which are ~10 years old.  Yep, out of control GAS  



gimmeheadroom said:


> If you hear a veil, if they sound lifeless or strange, this is exactly what I said. The RME doesn't drive them well. You seem to be agreeing with that rather than disagreeing, but I'll leave the conclusion to you





Cevisi said:


> I heard often that the adi dont pair well with sennheisers



So there is a big difference between "veiled" and "lifeless or strange". First, there is a lot that they do right. They are incredibly detailed in the low to low/mid frequency region. They are superb at low volumes, I can enjoy the music amazingly well listening to them at -39dB which for the health of my ears means it's likely a keeper. I wouldn't call the sounds "lifeless" at all, it's just the emphasis is in a very different part of the FR curve now, or rather the FR of the discreet op-amp of the Compass is being removed. Did a quick google search to see if I could find a measurement of the Compass to confirm this but failed. There is also some level of "untraining" considering my primary setup has been stable for about 7 years. Also need to play around with the 'loudness' feature to see if that can have a positive impact here.

About not having enough power for the HD600/HD650 though, that is very strange.  Into a 300 ohm headphone the current needs should be well below the current-limiting circuitry of the ADI-2 given their sensitivity.  If they truly don't pair well, which I still haven't passed judgement on, it's likely something else.


----------



## Progisus

ADI-2 drives my HD650 and HD800s with no issues and sounds great as well.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Chu said:


> Replacing an original Compass, almost a decade old at this point, into HD600s, which are ~10 years old.  Yep, out of control GAS
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The HD 600 and friends probably need more voltage than current. The RME DAC does a great job with my LCD-2C.  The HD 600 and 800 sound like they should out of an OTL amp or solid state amp that swings enough voltage.


----------



## Chu (Jul 5, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> The HD 600 and friends probably need more voltage than current. The RME DAC does a great job with my LCD-2C.  The HD 600 and 800 sound like they should out of an OTL amp or solid state amp that swings enough voltage.



Thanks for the reply.  From what I gather from the spec sheet the ADI-2 will put out up to 1.73V in low-power mode, and up to 10V in high-powered mode, and I assume current limited at high output to 1.5W.

How does this compare to solid state amps that people think are good with the HD600/HD650?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Chu said:


> Thanks for the reply.  From what I gather from the spec sheet the ADI-2 will put out up to 1.73V in low-power mode, and up to 10V in high-powered mode, and I assume current limited at high output to 1.5W.
> 
> How does this compare to solid state amps that people think are good with the HD600/HD650?



I am not sure about the minimum which sounds good. I have a Meier Corda Jazz-ff which does a very good job. I just checked the site and found this comment " Maximum output voltage JAZZ-FF 15 V @ 200 Hz"

For my 600 and 800 I normally now use a Violectric V280. Not sure what the max. output is but it is very powerful. The 600s are driven well enough by a Valhalla 2 but the midrange with the stock tubes is not very good. I'm not sure where the problem is, I don't use that amp much.


----------



## Bullpride

Soooo....... I was moving some things around in my office, packing my the Drop LCX that was replaced by my ADI-2.  Somehow I managed to plug in the power supply from The LCX instead of the correct one.  With the correct one plugged in, all I get is a blinking red around the power button.  What do I do now (besides reach out to support)?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Bullpride said:


> Soooo....... I was moving some things around in my office, packing my the Drop LCX that was replaced by my ADI-2.  Somehow I managed to plug in the power supply from The LCX instead of the correct one.  With the correct one plugged in, all I get is a blinking red around the power button.  What do I do now (besides reach out to support)?



What voltage is the LCX power supply?

Don't forget, the RME connector has to click and lock, you should turn it while pushing gently. Then hold down the power button, maybe it will reset. If not, ask on the RME forums.


----------



## Cevisi

i think it was push volume knob and knob 1 for 3 seconds to reset but in the manual you can find it


----------



## Swisshead

No, For total reset press Encoder 1 and encoder 2 and the VOL key, then turn on the unit.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27720


----------



## Bullpride

gimmeheadroom said:


> What voltage is the LCX power supply?
> 
> Don't forget, the RME connector has to click and lock, you should turn it while pushing gently. Then hold down the power button, maybe it will reset. If not, ask on the RME forums.


 LCX power supply outs at 30v 1.25A


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Bullpride said:


> LCX power supply outs at 30v 1.25A



That is not good news. The back panel of the RME says 9-15 VDC, I think. Hopefully they have some protection circuitry. Anyway, try the reset process @Swisshead linked to in the RME forums. Let us know how you make out.


----------



## Swisshead

ohhhhn this is toooo much!


----------



## Swisshead

Bullpride said:


> LCX power supply outs at 30v 1.25A



Didn't it smell burning?


----------



## Bullpride (Jul 5, 2020)

Swisshead said:


> Didn't it smell burning?


No burning smell.  I definitely didn't mean to use the wrong power supply, but it looks like I fried or tripped something that I can't. Attempting to factory reset doesn't do anything sadly, as the power button blinks red and it doesn't on enough to initiate the reset. 

Hopefully RME can fix it


----------



## Swisshead (Jul 5, 2020)

Would directly mail the support of RME in Germany. I already did, they usually answer quickly and competently.

 support@rme-audio.com


----------



## Bullpride

Swisshead said:


> Would directly mail the support of RME in Germany. I already did, they usually answer quickly and competently.
> 
> support@rme-audio.com


I messaged them through The US contact page, and just now sent a follow up directly to the email you linked.

Thanks! Hopefully its not going to be a pricey fix.


----------



## Swisshead

There must be some way to solve this. There are so many protection circuits in the device for overload and other things, there should also be something for the power input. 

In the past, every device had a fuse on the outside, which could easily be replaced in such a case, but unfortunately not anymore. Hope for a simple cheap solution for you.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Fuses are for current rather than voltage. It's easy enough to provide an over-voltage circuit but each component adds a lot to the price. Let's hope RME has some good news for @Bullpride


----------



## NickMimi

You fellows managed to sell me on an RME ADI FS, should be here sometime next week. I'm pretty excited about it, and from all my research seems like one of the really good price to value to features pieces of modern equipment on the current market.


----------



## Forsaked

Is there any consent between Auto Ref Level (keeps SNR low) and always use High Gain (some report more live like sound)?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Forsaked said:


> Is there any consent between Auto Ref Level (keeps SNR low) and always use High Gain (some report more live like sound)?



I never use auto ref, I always use high gain but it is often not enough. Depends on your headphones.


----------



## Cevisi

Me to always high gain


----------



## Matias (Jul 8, 2020)

High gain with too much attenuation (more than 10dB) in theory you are losing resolution (worst signal to noise ratio). Autoref keeps it always optimized.

Edit: in fact let me show the graph Matthias from RME posted on ASR. It deserves way more visibility for such a cool feature.





The Y axis is SINAD, or signal to noise ratio. Higher is better.

The X axis is output level. To the right is the loudest, left is lower volume.

Red and dark blue lines are with AutoRef disabled. It is a simple digital volume attenuation. The more you lower the volume, the less signal to noise ratio you end up. That is because the signal itself gets lower, but the high gain noise floor is still kept high.

The light blue and yellow lines are with AutoRef turned on. From right to left, max volume and turning down, it starts as a digital volume lowering the signal to noise ratio. But when a certain point is reached, the DAC intelligently switches to a lower gain and turns the digital attenuation back to the maximum again, so that the signal to noise ratio goes up again. And if you continue to lower the volume, it repeats again and again, so that even in low volumes the DAC was smart to use a lower gain and keep the signal to noise ratio maximized.

Now the beauty is that this is all automatic, we just turn the volume down and the DAC does its thing to what is best.


----------



## Forsaked

@Matias Thank you for the Explanation!


----------



## Matias (Jul 8, 2020)

An analogy with cars.

Always high gain is like manual transmission and using 5th gear all the time. Makes sense in high speed, but it's terrible at low speed.

Manually switching gains and using a few dBs of digital attenuation is like manually switching gears, using the optimal torque in each gear.

AutoRef on is like automatic transmission, the car switches gears for you while you just hit the accelerator or the break pedals. 

(And a variable gain design would be like a CVT transmission, always high torque without the gear jumps in between)


----------



## linearly

Hello everyone, new owner of the RME ADI-2 FS, finally decided to buy it after almost a year of thinking about it. Was the longest buy it or not decision I've made in this hobby, it was so long because some said its a good pair with HD 650's, other said its not, the internal amplifier is bad etc.  

I had high hopes, got it out of the box, plugged it in, first track, and it sounded horrible with my 650's, so bad that I wanted to throw it out the window. Of course I wouldn't do that, so I was ready to return it the next day. I left it running all night to try it again before sending it back, for the heck of it. I tried it again, and it improved just a tiny bit. Still not enough to keep it. Then I've found some RME EQ settings for my 650's and put them in. 

Things changed drastically, from very bad to incredible good. This is the best I've heard my 650's sound, and they've been plugged into DAVE for a few months plus other amp's and dac's over the years. Clarity is incredible, noise floor is so low, RME has enough slam and power to drive them and I don't feel I miss anything on the amp side. 

Over the years I've found faults with all the gear I had, and was always trying to change the sound and make it better (the way I like it to be). Either I was buying a new amp or a new dac, or change the sound with cables, usb, toslink, power etc. And never was quite where I wanted no matter how much I've spent. RME has fixed this problem for me, I can't fault the sound in any way possible. It has everything I wanted and more. 

This is my end game, and it was a long journey to get here, finally. The EQ setting in the RME is the best thing possible because you can tailor the sound as you like, and everyone of us has different sound preferences. I regret not buying this dac sooner, I could've saved a lot of money... Now I still want a new piece of equipment, and that is the next version of the ADI-2, whenever that is.


----------



## Cevisi

Matias said:


> An analogy with cars.
> 
> Always high gain is like manual transmission and using 5th gear all the time. Makes sense in high speed, but it's terrible at low speed.
> 
> ...


That graph you postet are for the line outs what about the phone out ?

and are these measurement of the blue and red line on high or low gain ?


----------



## Swisshead (Jul 8, 2020)

linearly said:


> Hello everyone, new owner of the RME ADI-2 FS, finally decided to buy it after almost a year of thinking about it. Was the longest buy it or not decision I've made in this hobby, it was so long because some said its a good pair with HD 650's, other said its not, the internal amplifier is bad etc.
> 
> I had high hopes, got it out of the box, plugged it in, first track, and it sounded horrible with my 650's, so bad that I wanted to throw it out the window. Of course I wouldn't do that, so I was ready to return it the next day. I left it running all night to try it again before sending it back, for the heck of it. I tried it again, and it improved just a tiny bit. Still not enough to keep it. Then I've found some RME EQ settings for my 650's and put them in.
> 
> ...



Yeah, well, enjoy it.  No is an excellent amplifier. It's also incredibly good as a pure DAC. Also because of the many adjustment possibilities, it is absolutely unique, nobody else offers that.

What's even better, the ADI as a DAC and an iCan on it! Yes, that is then 2-3 levels extra! 

Due to very good test reports I bought the Burson 3XP and received it this week. It is more expensive than the ADI. And what can I say? I think the ADI is clearly better... Unfortunately the ADI has only one disadvantage, it has no XLR output at the front. If it did, there'd definitely be nothing better. 

I have to look again, I bought the V2 ADI and the V1 is still lying around in my house, wanted to put it on eBay. But wait again, maybe the Burson will go on the internet in the end, don't know yet. I will test it for 1 month now. One should give a little time to the things already. On the one hand they might get a little better if they run longer or what is very likely, the brain gets used to the sound and suddenly you like it. It has already gone a lot like this! So you always have to give it at least a month and just listen.

I was the same with headphones. Plugged in, listened for 5 minutes and preferably thrown out of the window. But no, one month further heard and then I found them suddenly extra class! As I said, it always takes time and you should give it before you make a final judgement!


----------



## Cevisi

Yes me to every thing i get new i don't like it at first. I need some time with it to adjust


----------



## Matias

Cevisi said:


> That graph you postet are for the line outs what about the phone out ?
> 
> and are these measurement of the blue and red line on high or low gain ?


They are line outs, the numbers above are the levels of XLR and RCA outputs. But I understand the same would apply to headphone outs. I just did not figure out why they do not set AutoRef = on as factory default for headphone outs too.

The dark blue and red are high gain in order to reach the highest output level (maximum to the right).


----------



## darmccombs

Matias said:


> High gain with too much attenuation (more than 10dB) in theory you are losing resolution (worst signal to noise ratio). Autoref keeps it always optimized.
> 
> Edit: in fact let me show the graph Matthias from RME posted on ASR. It deserves way more visibility for such a cool feature.
> 
> ...


This is a great graphic.  It's a great way for folks to comprehend the snr easier.  My questions is how do the dynamics (quick bass, slam, immediacy) change when you go to the lower output levels.  Is there data on this?

When I use the lower power settings I seem to hear more detail and a cleaner sound, but I lose some dynamics compared to the higher output settings.


----------



## Matias

Maybe each gain has a different output impedance? Just speculating. But I believe lower output impedance subjectively correlates with more dynamics.
If so, then each user makes his/her trade off between signal to noise ratio and dynamics at taste.


----------



## Swisshead

Matias said:


> Maybe each gain has a different output impedance? Just speculating. But I believe lower output impedance subjectively correlates with more dynamics.
> If so, then each user makes his/her trade off between signal to noise ratio and dynamics at taste.



right, you have to try something. it also depends on the recording, which output control it has. Also a bit on the headphones.

The best way is to set XLR Autoref Level to +13dBu and volume -6Db. Then it fits perfectly. No distortions and still all the details are there.


----------



## Cevisi

darmccombs said:


> This is a great graphic.  It's a great way for folks to comprehend the snr easier.  My questions is how do the dynamics (quick bass, slam, immediacy) change when you go to the lower output levels.  Is there data on this?
> 
> When I use the lower power settings I seem to hear more detail and a cleaner sound, but I lose some dynamics compared to the higher output settings.


Thats why i always use high gain on all my devices more impact and dynamics


----------



## Matias

Matias said:


> Maybe each gain has a different output impedance? Just speculating. But I believe lower output impedance subjectively correlates with more dynamics.
> If so, then each user makes his/her trade off between signal to noise ratio and dynamics at taste.


Forget this hypothesis, output impedance is the same for all gains. So I don't know.


----------



## TheRH (Jul 15, 2020)

Delete


----------



## elisiX (Jul 9, 2020)

Swisshead said:


> The best way is to set XLR Autoref Level to +13dBu and volume -6Db. Then it fits perfectly. No distortions and still all the details are there.



Doing this now.

XLR Line Out
Volume -5.0 dBr
Auto Ref On
Ref Level +13 dBu
Volume on my Audio GD D28.38 sits at 45 on high gain or 60 for low gain and sounds brilliant (seems smoother on LG at higher volume).

RME doesn't show OVR anymore as it did when I set the Auto Ref to off and volume at -0db.

Thanks again for the earlier advice @Swisshead

I am really keen to hear your Burson 3XP experience. I'm considering potentially swapping out the Audio GD for *3XR* or the iCan, paired with the RME.


----------



## Facta

The 1/8" IEM out of RME is way better than the usual 1/4" headphone out, if the same IEM is tested for both ports?


----------



## Facta

Chu said:


> Just upgraded to an ADI-2 DAC from an original Compass.  I've been away from the hobby for a while but when searching for a good combo unit for work kind of went off the deep end.  Also have a couple headphones in the mail.  RIP my wallet.
> 
> Anyways, two quick questions!
> 
> ...



I would rather go with a USB Power Distributor like the one Mattias of RME suggested at a similar price or even less / $50. Or this at higher price/capacity at $120. You can run RME for a day or even more non-stop on a single charge even when you don't have AC power, and it comes with a charger that keeps it charged all the time as and when you have AC. And some say USB power makes RME sound slightly better than AC although I haven't detected much difference and neither do they at RME believe it is true.


----------



## Facta

Hi-Power has slightly higher noise floor than Lo-Power by any chance? Wondering if there is any advantage in using Hi-Power even for less-demanding 80-ohm headphones...


----------



## Swisshead

Facta said:


> Hi-Power has slightly higher noise floor than Lo-Power by any chance? Wondering if there is any advantage in using Hi-Power even for less-demanding 80-ohm headphones...



You can put it on automatic. Means when you listen softly is low power and when you turn it up or the power is needed, it automatically switches to high power. I find a very good function. Yes RME thinks of everything!


----------



## linearly

So a few more days with the RME ADI 2 and now I like the sound better without EQ for my HD650. I guess the first time I didn't like it because I was not used with a clean and neutral sound, and loved distorsion, now I'm used to it and prefer it as is.

The only issue that I'm not quite happy with is that the midrange is a bit behind everything and a bit veiled compared with my other ESS chip DAC. I'm sure I can fix this with some EQ settings but I've no clue what to boost in the EQ for this to work.

I also tried using a Linear Power Supply to see if there is a difference, there is, but I think its worse from a technical point of view. It makes more noise but also the midrange a bit brighter and this is what I desire.

Overall I'm quite content with the ADI-2, the only thing I need to do right now is learn how the EQ works and push the midrange a bit forward and make it less 'silky' sounding.


----------



## darmccombs

Facta said:


> The 1/8" IEM out of RME is way better than the usual 1/4" headphone out, if the same IEM is tested for both ports?


I've found there is a trade-off, especially if your IEM is moderate to hard to drive, for an IEM.  The IEM post is super quiet, but puts out little power.  This is great for super easy to drive IEMs.

But if your IEM needs moderate to high power, for an IEM, then the IEM port output may not drive the IEM with enough slam/dynamics.  The 1/4 port is quiet and I end up using this port with my IER-Z1R on low-power.  This provides a good blend of quiet (black background), with good dynamics.


----------



## Cevisi

linearly said:


> So a few more days with the RME ADI 2 and now I like the sound better without EQ for my HD650. I guess the first time I didn't like it because I was not used with a clean and neutral sound, and loved distorsion, now I'm used to it and prefer it as is.
> 
> The only issue that I'm not quite happy with is that the midrange is a bit behind everything and a bit veiled compared with my other ESS chip DAC. I'm sure I can fix this with some EQ settings but I've no clue what to boost in the EQ for this to work.
> 
> ...


I had the same feeling with the adi at first it sounded kind of strange. I played around with the eq after 2-3 weeks i disabled the eq and i was thinking wow whole another level and i never touched the eq again

But actualy for me the midrange is not behind everything. Do you have the bass and treble knobs on 0 db. And do you maybe forgot the loudness function on ? Because the loudness function boost the bass and treble


----------



## Tuneslover

Cevisi said:


> I had the same feeling with the adi at first it sounded kind of strange. I played around with the eq after 2-3 weeks i disabled the eq and i was thinking wow whole another level and i never touched the eq again
> 
> But actualy for me the midrange is not behind everything. Do you have the bass and treble knobs on 0 db. And do you maybe forgot the loudness function on ? Because the loudness function boost the bass and treble


I have had my RME for over a month now and I have pretty much kept it flat and without any kind of enhancements except for the initial setup.  I wanted my brain to become adjusted to all of the glorious detail being fed to my standalone amp.  You know what?  This DAC sounds amazing in it's "plain jane" setup and it will serve as the baseline sound to compare to when my new amp arrives.  After the new amp is at home in my system I will continue to listen to it flat until my brain has adjusted to the new amp.  Then and only then I'll start playing around with the EQ and other enhancements.


----------



## arielext

I'm 6 months in: With all the useful features this is the end game DAC for me. I have no clue what even might be able to replace it. I'm using 5 different headphones all with their own EQ and ouput to 2 amps (hybrid and solid state) and the RME just delivers.
Before I get recommendations: I'm fine 
Before someone says Chord: I'm fine, I'm not that fond of coloured marbles that indicate that my light blue volume is not the best match for a green-yellow-ish filter colour.


----------



## Cevisi

Yea it sounds that great you dont need to tweak anything. If your headphones are good

But what i really use is the loudness function at nights and the crossfeed sometimes for games


----------



## InstantSilence

To connect the rme out to an external amp via xlr
What do I need? A dual xlr to dual xlr cable right 
What is a cheap one on Amazon?


----------



## frogmeat69

InstantSilence said:


> To connect the rme out to an external amp via xlr
> What do I need? A dual xlr to dual xlr cable right
> What is a cheap one on Amazon?


These aren't too expensive, and work just fine for my set up. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KO8VY4...c=1&coliid=I3BHVDIZPDK2SP&colid=16DJO9XRI04YB


----------



## G8torbyte

InstantSilence said:


> To connect the rme out to an external amp via xlr
> What do I need? A dual xlr to dual xlr cable right
> What is a cheap one on Amazon?


Here is another source that someone mentioned on the Schiit Modius thread:


> https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/a07.html


These XLR cables look very similar to the set (mass)Drop.com had for sale not long ago: https://drop.com/buy/fanmusic-c006-xlr-interconnect-cables
Better price too on the ghentaudio site.


----------



## Matias

Here is my suggestion of affordable starquad balanced Van Damme cables with Neutrik XLR gold connectors, made in the UK. Multiple colors and custom lengths and all.

https://www.designacable.com/studio...ik-balanced-cable-microphone-patch-leads.html


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## Swisshead (Jul 13, 2020)

I wouldn't be so frugal here and would take a cable of better quality. Here analog signals are transmitted. This means that it is more sensitive to noise than pure digital cable. The amplifier gets an analog signal here and simply amplifies everything that comes through, including noise.

I took the cable from the picture. It costs almost 200 USD, but it is of excellent quality, with special shielding and silver/copper conductors.

Would only be a recommendation. It would be a pity to use such expensive equipment and then not to exploit the potential with such cheap cables.


----------



## f97zhh

Hi guys! New headfier here. I have just bought an used rme adi2 dac here and have very little background knowledge with is device. I have heard that the headphone output is good at handling low impedence headphones. So I was wondering how well can this driving the akg k812. Does anyone have any experience with this two combo? Thanks ahead!


----------



## Swisshead

With the K812 the ADI should have absolutely no problems. It is a very effective headphone. 36 Ohm, 110Db sound pressure. With this the ADI has an easy job. That is easily enough. You don't need an additional amplifier. 

Otherwise you can set the ADI to high power, but we recommend the automatic mode. If you listen quietly, it is on low power, if you turn it up, it automatically switches to high power. 

But this combination should work very well!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Guys as far as cables go you can easily find good/cheap XLR cables at a pro audio shop. The fancy expensive cables will not be any better in terms of build quality or sound quality.


----------



## linearly

Cevisi said:


> But actualy for me the midrange is not behind everything. Do you have the bass and treble knobs on 0 db. And do you maybe forgot the loudness function on ? Because the loudness function boost the bass and treble



Well it turns out that the midrange was like this because of my HD650 headphones. Someone suggested in this thread that the HD 25's are a great pair with the ADI 2 so I've got a pair to see how they fair. 

Didn't take them out of the box until today, plugged them in the ADI 2 and was amazed on how good they sound without any EQ. In fact, the midrange is so good that I still can't believe it, its simply magical. And I'm sure this is mostly the ADI 2, not the headphones. I can go further and say that the ADI 2 and the HD 25 sound better, more natural then the DAVE and HD800S. This is a from memory comparison, don't own this pair anymore. Sure the DAVE has more space, better transients, different music presentation, but the midrange is so incredible with the RME and HD25s that I don't feel I'm missing anything.

So I must admit that at first I did not like the RME with my HD650, and to blame here were my headphones and not the ADI 2. With the HD 25's the sound is simply magical, and I'd like to thank whoever praised this pair in this thread and making me try it. 

Now the question, what other headphones pair very well with the ADI 2? I'm thinking of rebuying the HD800S, it was a bit treble hot with some tracks on the DAVE and Hugo 2, but with the RME that can be fixed with some EQ. Maybe the Focal Clear's? Very curious in other suggestions. Thanks.


----------



## Cevisi

linearly said:


> Well it turns out that the midrange was like this because of my HD650 headphones. Someone suggested in this thread that the HD 25's are a great pair with the ADI 2 so I've got a pair to see how they fair.
> 
> Didn't take them out of the box until today, plugged them in the ADI 2 and was amazed on how good they sound without any EQ. In fact, the midrange is so good that I still can't believe it, its simply magical. And I'm sure this is mostly the ADI 2, not the headphones. I can go further and say that the ADI 2 and the HD 25 sound better, more natural then the DAVE and HD800S. This is a from memory comparison, don't own this pair anymore. Sure the DAVE has more space, better transients, different music presentation, but the midrange is so incredible with the RME and HD25s that I don't feel I'm missing anything.
> 
> ...


I like my 1990 with the adi but i did not tried alot with it


----------



## Forsaked

Cevisi said:


> I like my 1990 with the adi but i did not tried alot with it


I can second that!


----------



## Matias (Jul 13, 2020)

linearly said:


> Now the question, what other headphones pair very well with the ADI 2? I'm thinking of rebuying the HD800S, it was a bit treble hot with some tracks on the DAVE and Hugo 2, but with the RME that can be fixed with some EQ. Maybe the Focal Clear's? Very curious in other suggestions. Thanks.


An easy to drive, good priced, confortable, good looking and very balanced and high resolution headphone I would suggest to you is the Hifiman Edition X v2. I don't own one yet but I heard it for a few days in my system and it is very special. And I have heard Senn HD800, Focal Utopia, Audeze LCD-2/3/4/X/XC, Hifiman 1000v2. Still, in my experience and for my taste, the Edition X v2 is killer.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

linearly said:


> Well it turns out that the midrange was like this because of my HD650 headphones. Someone suggested in this thread that the HD 25's are a great pair with the ADI 2 so I've got a pair to see how they fair.
> 
> Didn't take them out of the box until today, plugged them in the ADI 2 and was amazed on how good they sound without any EQ. In fact, the midrange is so good that I still can't believe it, its simply magical. And I'm sure this is mostly the ADI 2, not the headphones. I can go further and say that the ADI 2 and the HD 25 sound better, more natural then the DAVE and HD800S. This is a from memory comparison, don't own this pair anymore. Sure the DAVE has more space, better transients, different music presentation, but the midrange is so incredible with the RME and HD25s that I don't feel I'm missing anything.
> 
> ...



I don't know if I was the only one who suggested it but I had a magic moment with a pair of HD 25s and the RME. You blame the RME, I blame the Sennheisers. They scale more than anybody should believe is possible.

The RME does not drive the 600s well so I am not surprised you didn't like it with your 650s. Try adding a good amp to the RME and I'm sure you will be delighted with the 650s again.

Another excellent pairing with the RME is LCD-2C.


----------



## Tuneslover

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't know if I was the only one who suggested it but I had a magic moment with a pair of HD 25s and the RME. You blame the RME, I blame the Sennheisers. They scale more than anybody should believe is possible.
> 
> The RME does not drive the 600s well so I am not surprised you didn't like it with your 650s. Try adding a good amp to the RME and I'm sure you will be delighted with the 650s again.
> 
> Another excellent pairing with the RME is LCD-2C.


I agree that the HD650 has never sounded better to my ears since getting the RME DAC feeding my external headphone amp (Lake People G109S).  I should also add that I had an OFC copper with silver coating cable made for the HD650 and that raised the quality of the HD650 even more.  Like I said my HD650 has never sounded better as I add higher quality equipment and cabling to my system.  The bass rivals my LCD-2C and the midrange and treble details are amazing with no hint of veil.  Like it's been said for years, the HD650 scales as the chain improves.


----------



## Cevisi

Ifi is working on a amp specialized for the 6xx 650 by the way.

It also has a button for an analog eq to raise the bass on the bass on the 6xx 650.

If i had the 650 i would buy it


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> Ifi is working on a amp specialized for the 6xx 650 by the way.
> 
> It also has a button for an analog eq to raise the bass on the bass on the 6xx 650.
> 
> If i had the 650 i would buy it



ifi does make some neat stuff but there are already plenty of good amps for HD 600s especially for Germans 

Hint: Meier, Violetric etc.


----------



## Cevisi

gimmeheadroom said:


> ifi does make some neat stuff but there are already plenty of good amps for HD 600s especially for Germans
> 
> Hint: Meier, Violetric etc.


Yes but none of these amps are made to just run this one headphone perfect and nothing else


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> Yes but none of these amps are made to just run this one headphone perfect and nothing else



I haven't heard it but I'm not that interested. I already have better amps than that and if they break I send them over to the next country and they can fix them. No disrespect to ifi but I have no idea what happens when Chinese gear breaks and we live in Europe.


----------



## Cevisi

gimmeheadroom said:


> I haven't heard it but I'm not that interested. I already have better amps than that and if they break I send them over to the next country and they can fix them. No disrespect to ifi but I have no idea what happens when Chinese gear breaks and we live in Europe.


Ifi is a british company


----------



## Cevisi

And you know they play in the same league with violectric and rme if not better


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Cevisi said:


> Yes but none of these amps are made to just run this one headphone perfect and nothing else



Uf, why go with the 6XX in the writing?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> And you know they play in the same league with violectric and rme if not better



Seriously. No.


----------



## Cevisi

gimmeheadroom said:


> Seriously. No.


Tell me why


----------



## mvule

Cevisi said:


> Ifi is a british company


Lol!


----------



## iFi audio

gimmeheadroom said:


> No disrespect to ifi but I have no idea what happens when Chinese gear breaks and we live in Europe.



All good! The usual warranty repair happens. Our distribution network is global, we have representatives in most European countries, and broken products outside of warranty we rescue at our office in UK.



CaptainFantastic said:


> Uf, why go with the 6XX in the writing?



ZEN CAN Signature 6XX's selectable analog EQ was tailored for these specific cans (but will work with many others!), hence the name.



Cevisi said:


> Ifi is a british company



UK is our homeland, yup!


----------



## TheRH (Jul 15, 2020)

Is anyone using RME with Roon? I use Tidal, Qobuz, and Local files through Roon.


----------



## Forsaked

TheRH said:


> Is anyone using RME with Roon? I use Tidal, Qobuz, and Local files through Roon.


I do!


----------



## Progisus

TheRH said:


> Is anyone using RME with Roon? I use Tidal, Qobuz, and Local files through Roon.


+1


----------



## Swisshead

Have any of you ever compared Roon to Audirvana? I use Audirvana and am actually satisfied.

Is there anything more to Roon than that? Is there any experience between the two?


----------



## Forsaked

Audirvana was never an option for me, since there is only a Windows Store App, which i can't use since i have no Windows Store (LTSC).
So i stick to Roon after i went from: Windows Media Player -> VLC -> Foobar2000 -> Musicbee -> Foobar2000 -> Roon


----------



## Cevisi

Forsaked said:


> Audirvana was never an option for me, since there is only a Windows Store App, which i can't use since i have no Windows Store (LTSC).
> So i stick to Roon after i went from: Windows Media Player -> VLC -> Foobar2000 -> Musicbee -> Foobar2000 -> Roon


I could download it from the website i didn't need the windows store


----------



## Matias

Roon was never an option to me, way too expensive both annually or one time.


----------



## Nostoi

Matias said:


> Roon was never an option to me, way too expensive both annually or one time.


Lifetime membership was by far one of the greatest investments I've made in audio. I don't think it's much at all given how much usage and benefits I get from it.


----------



## Swisshead

Nostoi said:


> Lifetime membership was by far one of the greatest investments I've made in audio. I don't think it's much at all given how much usage and benefits I get from it.



Are 699USD for lifetime! Is it really worth it??? Audirvana is much cheaper there. I can also download Audeze Tools there and stream Qobuz.

You know what Roon offers more?


----------



## Nostoi

Swisshead said:


> Are 699USD for lifetime! Is it really worth it??? Audirvana is much cheaper there. I can also download Audeze Tools there and stream Qobuz.
> 
> You know what Roon offers more?


I'm not familiar with Audirvana, I'm afraid. I think my membership was cheaper, maybe around 500USD. 

To be perfectly honest, I don't even use the streaming function (I do use my phone as a remote from time to time, otherwise it's all local). I mostly enjoy Roon for its powerful DSP options and excellent metadata retrieval. The PEQ is excellent, really excellent. It's expensive, but not really when compared to the cost of high end cables, which I think are far more expendable within the scheme of one's set-up. I use Roon everyday, love the ability to cross-reference things, love the interface, etc.I was on Foobar before, and sure one can easily get by using that, but I'd rather have the complete package. Not for everyone, I agree!


----------



## Forsaked

Nostoi said:


> I'm not familiar with Audirvana, I'm afraid. I think my membership was cheaper, maybe around 500USD.



It was 450$ before, then they changed it to 699$.
After i tried Roon, there is no way back for me.


----------



## Progisus

I used A+ for a couple years and after finally trying roon bought the lifetime. 600$ cad at the time. There was no going back. It was like walking into a music library while A+ was a player. So for fun a day or two back I fired up A+ and did the upgrade to Audirvana as it is now called. The sound was comparable to Roon direct but the interface was just a player. The things I missed were the metadata and bios and reviews. The raat protocol is far superior to dlna. Lac of HQPlayer integration is the deal breaker.


----------



## Cevisi

Lol i thought audirivana was expensive


----------



## Matias

In theory one can pay 50usd for a JRiver license and use it for life, it just won't be updated after a year or so. If any update is worthwhile, then the upgrade cost is like +30usd.
700usd buys me a 20+ JRiver upgrades to distribute during my lifetime. 

Yes, I know the functionality is not the same, but still.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I hated Roon and wouldn't use it if it was free. I looked at Audirvana and JRiver but didn't like those either. I think the latter two would make sense if you have several streaming services and you want to run one music app on a PC. For my use I'm happy with foobar2000 into the RME. Foobar plays almost every format known to man and it's free. The navigation is very quick over SAMBA. It uses RME's ASIO drivers. RME does not do Roon anyway, I'm not sure why anybody thinks it does.


----------



## Forsaked (Jul 15, 2020)

The ADI-2 is still only a DAC/AMP and not a network streamer, so i don't understand what you mean with "RME does not Roon anyway"?
RME officially commited the ADI-2 Pro to RoonLabs which then added it to the HCL and Partner List: https://kb.roonlabs.com/Partner_Devices_Matrix


----------



## Nostoi

gimmeheadroom said:


> I hated Roon and wouldn't use it if it was free. I looked at Audirvana and JRiver but didn't like those either. I think the latter two would make sense if you have several streaming services and you want to run one music app on a PC. For my use I'm happy with foobar2000 into the RME. Foobar plays almost every format known to man and it's free. The navigation is very quick over SAMBA. It uses RME's ASIO drivers. RME does not do Roon anyway, I'm not sure why anybody thinks it does.


Quite. Your latter point doesn't make any sense. It's true the whole language of being "Roon Ready" is a bit of a marketing gimmick, but RME "does Roon" in every sense.


----------



## captblaze

gimmeheadroom said:


> RME does not do Roon anyway, I'm not sure why anybody thinks it does.



because it does


----------



## Slaphead

Progisus said:


> I used A+ for a couple years and after finally trying roon bought the lifetime. 600$ cad at the time. There was no going back. It was like walking into a music library while A+ was a player. So for fun a day or two back I fired up A+ and did the upgrade to Audirvana as it is now called. The sound was comparable to Roon direct* but the interface was just a player.* The things I missed were the metadata and bios and reviews. The raat protocol is far superior to dlna. Lac of HQPlayer integration is the deal breaker.



Yes, that's exactly what I want. I just want to drag and drop whatever I want to play into the play queue and play it without having to fight with totally unintuitive and crappy library interfaces.

Also the dragging and dropping kind of is a digital analogy to putting a record, cd, or tape on. It's a kind of ritual thing that suits this old guy.


----------



## Bullpride

Cevisi said:


> Lol i thought audirivana was expensive


It is under $100 US for a lifetime. I couldn't imagine spending any more, but I am just playing FLAC files from a PC.  No streaming and no network setup.


----------



## TheRH

I do Roon annual.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

*Roon Tested USB Devices*

"Roon speaks to any USB device that is recognized as a sound card by the underlying operating system. "

That is where RME DAC falls. 

The RME DAC is not ïn the category of

*Roon Ready Network Devices*

RME does not do Roon. And it won't ever, according to my predictions. I'm sure you can understand the difference between the two bold categories.


----------



## TheRH

Not all devices are, but they can still work well.


----------



## Cevisi

Bullpride said:


> It is under $100 US for a lifetime. I couldn't imagine spending any more, but I am just playing FLAC files from a PC.  No streaming and no network setup.


Do you also experience alot of crashes and disconnects and freezes on windows with audirivana


----------



## CaptainFantastic

captblaze said:


> because it does



Two questions for everyone related to the Roon discussion:

1) RME ADI-2 DAC is there as a description because you typed it in, correct? Not because it found the device by name. With my Mojo Roon found it from a list of devices, when I click "Identify Device" and start typing RME or ADI, it doesn't recognize anything.

2) My more important question. If I run optical from the PC to the RME ADI-2 DAC, is there ANY way to avoid this being viewed by Roon as OS Mixer (High Quality) as opposed to Lossless? I tried it both via the ASUS Xonar STX II Optical out and the motherboard Realtek Optical out and I always get Source FLAC Lossless  -> This PC Lossless -> Realtek or ASUS Xonar OS Mixer High Quality. If I switch to USB to the RME or the Mojo, I get Lossless throughout.


----------



## Bullpride

Cevisi said:


> Do you also experience alot of crashes and disconnects and freezes on windows with audirivana


I have not had any issues with the RME or my other DAC while running audrivana


----------



## iFi audio

Swisshead said:


> Are 699USD for lifetime! Is it really worth it???



To some it is as it turns out. Many people after the Roon experience never look back. If it's their software of choice, they're willing to invest, and personally I get that


----------



## Random Lunatic (Jul 15, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I haven't heard it but I'm not that interested. I already have better amps than that and if they break I send them over to the next country and they can fix them. No disrespect to ifi but I have no idea what happens when Chinese gear breaks and we live in Europe.


iFi is based in the UK - though I guess that won't be in Europe much longer... But their products are excellent, but I've mostly heard their high end stuff, which is a lot more expensive than the RME, to be fair. Liked their tube hybrids, for being able to run in either solid state or tube mode, depending on taste/headphone.


----------



## CaptainFantastic (Jul 15, 2020)

Random Lunatic said:


> iFi is based in the UK - though I guess that won't be in Europe much longer... But their products are excellent, but I've mostly heard their high end stuff, which is a lot more expensive than the RME, to be fair.



The United Kingdom, as a nation state (with countries within countries) encompassing most of the British Isles, will always be geographically and culturally in Europe. It has already left the European Union and what we have now is a transition period. That is another matter.


----------



## Random Lunatic

CaptainFantastic said:


> The United Kingdom, as a nation state (with countries within countries) encompassing most of the British Isles, will always be geographically and culturally (for now) in Europe. It has already left the European Union and what we have now is a transition period. That is another matter.


I meant in terms of the trade agreements of the union, which is what makes sending a unit for repair much more easy within the union, rather than across the 'border' if you will, which the UK is still part of for a little while yet, until that transition is over - that seemed to be what he was concerned about... But yea, I suppose its a bit of a divisive/hot topic for some at the moment, so lets just get back to RME


----------



## Bompah

gimmeheadroom said:


> RME does not do Roon. And it won't ever, according to my predictions. I'm sure you can understand the difference between the two bold categories.



Well that's fairly obvious, the RME isn't a network device. It is like predicting it will never be a CD player or a network streamer.


----------



## Karister (Jul 15, 2020)

Cheap and compact solution for RME and Roon over network is Raspberry Pi with a HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro HAT. There is also a nice steel case available for those mini PCs with HiFiBerry HATs. Super small and looks cool:





It's easy to build, no tools required. Youtube guides show it step by step. There are several lightweight OS supporting Roon and other streaming solutions like DLNA, AirPlay, Spotify. Personally I picked Ropieee. Installation is quick and painless. I am using RPi4 this way from several months and I am super happy with it. It also works over Wi-Fi 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. Total cost is around $115 for RPi4 (2GB RAM) + HiFiBerry HAT + micro SD card + steel case + power supply.

I connected it to my RME via coax and works like a charm. No issues at all. It offers built-in galvanic isolation so no worry about hum.


----------



## gibby (Jul 16, 2020)

Karister said:


> Cheap and compact solution for RME and Roon over network is Raspberry Pi with a HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro HAT. There is also a nice steel case available for those mini PCs with HiFiBerry HATs. Super small and looks cool:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Same.  I use Volumio.


----------



## iFi audio

Random Lunatic said:


> But yea, I suppose its a bit of a divisive/hot topic for some at the moment



Yes, it is, but as a manufacturer we'll do our best to adapt to this situation. Now, where were we? Ah yes, RME


----------



## noaid (Jul 16, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I hated Roon and wouldn't use it if it was free. I looked at Audirvana and JRiver but didn't like those either. I think the latter two would make sense if you have several streaming services and you want to run one music app on a PC. For my use I'm happy with foobar2000 into the RME. Foobar plays almost every format known to man and it's free. The navigation is very quick over SAMBA. It uses RME's ASIO drivers. RME does not do Roon anyway, I'm not sure why anybody thinks it does.


Nazdar,
Madman is my best by EJ 
I also tried Audirvana and Jriver - now with ADI2 DAC.

Audirvana (windows app) run correctly for about 20 minutes, then crashed after restart. It does not support DVD-A iso and folder view, generally terrible interface for me. Unistalled after 1 hour.
Jriver - also does not support DVD-A but supports folder view but the interface is still too primitive for me. Maybe I don't know all possibilities...

I use Foobar with a lot of plugins and well configured with Default UI, no ColumnsUI. Extremely flexible piece of sw if you know what to do and what is possible. Widest audio format support. But everything is about knowledge. Default installation which most people use is not best - that is why probably people like other players.

Soundwise all play the same quality audio by ASIO if configured correctly. I did not found difference. Again - everything is about settings and configuration. Commercial players have some parameters already preset - potential advantage for people who don't understand internal things so much.
I tried also some other audio player distributions (booting systems) but when found they don't support even SACD iso and some other formats I stopped trying them.
For me MY Foobar is Porche against bicycles. I have not tried Roon.

But I have one big problem with RME and don't know what to do wit it.
Playing Tidal from official app via Hifi Cable ASIO Bridge exclusive to RME ASIO driver. Normal 16/44 plays perfectly. But Master (24/96 1.ufold) plays for 30s-2min. correctly and then starts big stuttering. After pause for some seconds plays again correctly for some short time. I tried Foobar via this ASIO bridge and it worked for several minutes - didn'try more.
Do you have an idea for solution? I think there is something wrong/incompatibility with Tidal.

@gimmeheadroom  Could you compare ADI2 to your Brooklyn?


----------



## Louisiana

noaid said:


> But I have one big problem with RME and don't know what to do wit it.
> Playing Tidal from official app via Hifi Cable ASIO Bridge exclusive to RME ASIO driver. Normal 16/44 plays perfectly. But Master (24/96 1.ufold) plays for 30s-2min. correctly and then starts big stuttering. After pause for some seconds plays again correctly for some short time. I tried Foobar via this ASIO bridge and it worked for several minutes - didn'try more.
> Do you have an idea for solution? I think there is something wrong/incompatibility with Tidal.



Hi,
I use Tidale in connection with my ADI2, also via the RME ASIO driver, and have no problems - neither with 16/44 nor with 24/96.


----------



## noaid

Louisiana said:


> Hi,
> I use Tidale in connection with my ADI2, also via the RME ASIO driver, and have no problems - neither with 16/44 nor with 24/96.


And do you use also VB Hifi Cable Asio Bridge as Tidal output device? Or use Analog 1+2 device (WDM device)? This is not Asio device. What device is set in Tidal?


----------



## Louisiana

Excuse me, that was my mistake!
I thought you were talking about a normal audio cable, I didn't know again that there was anything like VB Hifi Cable Asio Bridge.
My ADI2 is connected to my computer via USB, however I have installed the RME driver and also use ASIO, which is probably why the misunderstanding.


----------



## noaid (Jul 17, 2020)

So in this case it works but all output from Tidal is resampled to FR which is set in RME driver. So may happen: if you play Master from Tidal and you have 44kHz in RME driver - you downsample from 96kHz to 44kHz.
And this is what can be avoided by this Asio Bridge to achieve bitperfect from Tidal to ADI-2 DAC/PRO - rerouting from normal WDM driver to ASIO output where variable FR can be handled well.


----------



## Louisiana (Jul 17, 2020)

Ah, thank you very much!

I have installed the software once, it works wonderfully for me!
ADI2 switches automatically, depending on the quality:

https://tidal.com/browse/track/68709149

ADI2 switches to 96kHz

https://tidal.com/browse/track/77706285

ADI2 switches to 88.2kHz.

https://tidal.com/browse/track/71633387

ADI2 switches to 44.1kHz.

Now I listen to it for a while to see if there are any errors


----------



## Cevisi

Louisiana said:


> Ah, thank you very much!
> 
> I have installed the software once, it works wonderfully for me!
> ADI2 switches automatically, depending on the quality:
> ...


Wow i think i have to give this a try


----------



## noaid

So now you are playing via shared Windows output set to Hifi Cable. This is also not ideal because Windows can play also something else into it. 
Use this: In Tidal - 3 dots, settings, streaming, output to Hifi cable,, More settings set both switches on (Force volume, Exclusive mode).
Windows output set to something else - not Hifi Cable.
Then try to play Masters. This is the right setting for Tidal.


----------



## Louisiana

I am on my way.
when i get back home later i will try it out and report.


----------



## Louisiana (Jul 17, 2020)

noaid said:


> So now you are playing via shared Windows output set to Hifi Cable. This is also not ideal because Windows can play also something else into it.
> Use this: In Tidal - 3 dots, settings, streaming, output to Hifi cable,, More settings set both switches on (Force volume, Exclusive mode).
> Windows output set to something else - not Hifi Cable.
> Then try to play Masters. This is the right setting for Tidal.



I have now set everything up as you said.
Windows sound switched to the Realtek driver, everything runs without problems.
I insert another photo, so that you can see all my settings


----------



## Louisiana

Have you ever tried Audirvana?
This is also possible, at least up to 96kHz.
Personally, I usually set the ADI2 to 88.2kHz, and I'm satisfied with it, I can't hear a difference betwen 44,1/88,2/96kHz...

For DSD / SACD audio I use Foobar2000, then the ADI2 switches to DSD mode, and everything is fine.
I think I'm going to buy Audirvana, so I combined everything in one player.


----------



## sabloke

A2B Tidal vs Asio Bridge gives sound stage to Asio Bridge. The difference is easily spotted as there's definitely more air. I wonder why that is. Listening to 88.2kHz MQA.


----------



## Swisshead

I have now made a trial subscription with Roon this morning. But I will not buy the software and stay with Audirvana. I see no justification for Roon for six times the price. Audirvana offers me everything I need. I don't see anything that Roon offers me more. On the contrary. I find the software to be more complicated to use and more elaborate. Audirvana is simpler and more logical. Also more technical settings in Audirvana and can load the plug-ins e.g. Audeze. I haven't found that anywhere in Roon. I'm sure there is, but you should find it.

I have deleted the software again and remain faithful to my Audirvana, which I have been using to my complete satisfaction for 2 years now.


----------



## TheRH (Jul 21, 2020)

I bought an RME ADI-2 DAC FS, which I quite like, but I have a question. I know it will not play MQA, that is quite fine, I use Roon for the first fold. But when I am in Tidal and I want to browse music in the native It will switch to 384 Khz in Tidal in the Tidal app for MQA or Non-MQA music. When in the Roon app or Qobuz it displays correctly. How do get the Tidal app to play bit-perfect music up to the highest resolution possible? Thanks.


----------



## Cevisi

TheRH said:


> I bought an RME, which I quite like, but I have a question. I know it will not play MQA, that is quite fine, I use Roon for the first fold. But when I am in Tidal and I want to browse music in the native Tidal app how do I get the music to play bit-perfect up to the highest resolution possible? It will switch to 384 Khz in Tidal in the Tidal app for MQA or Non-MQA music. When in the Roon app or Qobuz it displays correctly. Thanks.


Asio bridge virtual cable

Its explained in the last few post. The nativ tidal player will not change it bitrate by it self


----------



## TheRH

I can not get ASIO bride to work, I have no sound.


----------



## Cevisi

Hmm i can't help you there. I never used it. I use tidal over audirivana


TheRH said:


> I can not get ASIO bride to work, I have no sound.


----------



## TheRH

I use Roon mostly, because of my setups.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TheRH said:


> I use Roon mostly, because of my setups.



For this reason I don't use my RME with Tidal.


----------



## Noobzilla

I'm trying to get 3V input into my amp via XLR line out. Auto Ref is off. 

Volume -5.0 dB
Ref Level +7 dBu (another +6 dBu since it's XLR) for a total of +13 dBu?
I'm using this calculator. +13 dBu is 3.45v? I have no idea how dB Volume affects voltage.
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm


----------



## Dogmatrix

Noobzilla said:


> I'm trying to get 3V input into my amp via XLR line out. Auto Ref is off.
> 
> Volume -5.0 dB
> Ref Level +7 dBu (another +6 dBu since it's XLR) for a total of +13 dBu?
> ...


Final output is the total of the two , in this case -5 and +13


----------



## Noobzilla

Dogmatrix said:


> Final output is the total of the two , in this case -5 and +13


Thanks! Does it matter if I have Ref Level at +13 and Volume at -5 or Ref Level +19 and Volume at -11?


----------



## Dogmatrix

Noobzilla said:


> Thanks! Does it matter if I have Ref Level at +13 and Volume at -5 or Ref Level +19 and Volume at -11?


Don't think so but I give ref level priority and keep volume as close to zero as possible . If my interpretation of the manual is correct this will give the best performance . Although from RME comments I don't think any difference would be noticeable .


----------



## Tuneslover

Whenever my V280 (which has a Max Input Level of +21 dBu) arrives I was going to go:
Auto Ref OFF, then set Ref Level to +19 (I'm going to use XLR's from RME into V280) and the RME Volume set to 0.

If anyone else out there has the V280 is that how you set your's up?  Any comments/advice?  Thank you.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Tuneslover said:


> Whenever my V280 (which has a Max Input Level of +21 dBu) arrives I was going to go:
> Auto Ref OFF, then set Ref Level to +19 (I'm going to use XLR's from RME into V280) and the RME Volume set to 0.
> 
> If anyone else out there has the V280 is that how you set your's up?  Any comments/advice?  Thank you.



I run my V280 at -12 dB and I run my Brooklyn DAC+ into it at fixed output level (balanced) at 0 dB.

I run the RME with fixed 0 dB out, auto ref off into a Lyr 2.

How you set up the V280 needs to be based on your headphones, you want to get as much useful range of the volume control as you can. For a lot of headphones it's kinda impossible given the huge power the V280 has.


----------



## Cevisi

Does a better amp really benefit the adi 2. I heard some reviewers say it mainly increases bass and stage.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> Does a better amp really benefit the adi 2. I heard some reviewers say it mainly increases bass and stage.



It depends on the headphones. The RME drives Fostex and LCD-2C beautifully, I don't feel I need a separate amp.

My Sennheisers are much happier with a tube OTL or my V280.


----------



## Noobzilla

Cevisi said:


> Does a better amp really benefit the adi 2. I heard some reviewers say it mainly increases bass and stage.


I'd say it depends on your headphones's impedance. I'm testing my ADI-2 with HeadAmp GS-X Mini to run my Empyrean (32 ohm). I'm still waiting on balanced headphones cables to fully hear the Mini, but right now using single-ended stock cable (which is likely my bottleneck right now) I'd say the only benefit is when listening at really high volume where the Mini is easier/smoother to listen to. However, I would rarely find myself listening at such volumes. I'll likely benefit more with a high impedance headphones, but currently I'd be happy with ADI-2 without an external amp.


----------



## koven

Swisshead said:


> I have now made a trial subscription with Roon this morning. But I will not buy the software and stay with Audirvana. I see no justification for Roon for six times the price. Audirvana offers me everything I need. I don't see anything that Roon offers me more. On the contrary. I find the software to be more complicated to use and more elaborate. Audirvana is simpler and more logical. Also more technical settings in Audirvana and can load the plug-ins e.g. Audeze. I haven't found that anywhere in Roon. I'm sure there is, but you should find it.
> 
> I have deleted the software again and remain faithful to my Audirvana, which I have been using to my complete satisfaction for 2 years now.



Audirvana has much improved in latest version(s) but it's still missing some critical functionality to me that Roon has like plush metadata, Roon Radio, etc. Also the UX is not as intuitive, for example you have to go into settings to define sort rather than straight from the playlist, just unnecessary additional clicks. Mouse back/forward button doesn't work either, at least on Windows version, somewhat annoying in navigation. UI is also barebones compared to a more modern Roon, for example how it displays Tidal / Qobuz vs Roon. Though ultimately it's still a viable alternative at a fractional cost.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Noobzilla said:


> I'd say it depends on your headphones's impedance. I'm testing my ADI-2 with HeadAmp GS-X Mini to run my Empyrean (32 ohm). I'm still waiting on balanced headphones cables to fully hear the Mini, but right now using single-ended stock cable (which is likely my bottleneck right now) I'd say the only benefit is when listening at really high volume where the Mini is easier/smoother to listen to. However, I would rarely find myself listening at such volumes. I'll likely benefit more with a high impedance headphones, but currently I'd be happy with ADI-2 without an external amp.



It's not just about impedance. It's mostly about sensitivity, then whether the headphone needs voltage or current, and then about impedance.


----------



## darmccombs

gimmeheadroom said:


> It's not just about impedance. It's mostly about sensitivity, then whether the headphone needs voltage or current, and then about impedance.


Agreed...   Some 300 ohm headphones sound fairly bad with the RME, but the ZMF Verite Closed I have sounds decent with the RME by itself.  The Verites have a high sensitivity so the RME does an ok job with them.  I did add a GS-X Mini external amp, and the control of the bass and soundstage improved, but it wasn't a night/day sort of improvement.


----------



## Slim1970

darmccombs said:


> Agreed...   Some 300 ohm headphones sound fairly bad with the RME, but the ZMF Verite Closed I have sounds decent with the RME by itself.  The Verites have a high sensitivity so the RME does an ok job with them.  I did add a GS-X Mini external amp, and the control of the bass and soundstage improved, but it wasn't a night/day sort of improvement.


I'm finding that DAC's with headphone outputs are getting really good. So good that they are competing with stand alone headphone amps. My RME, TT2, and Hugo 2 are outstanding on their own with majority of my headphones. Going back and forth with these DAC's against my Burson Conductor 3XR, that I just sold, the difference in sound was minimal. I only needed the Burson when I drove my Susvara's. Other than that, I had no problem using the RME or the Chord DAC's on their own.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Tuneslover said:


> Whenever my V280 (which has a Max Input Level of +21 dBu) arrives I was going to go:
> Auto Ref OFF, then set Ref Level to +19 (I'm going to use XLR's from RME into V280) and the RME Volume set to 0.
> 
> If anyone else out there has the V280 is that how you set your's up?  Any comments/advice?  Thank you.


I am running the pro into the old V181 which has the same input rating as the V280
I lock volume at zero and set ref level to +24 dBu 
Pre gain on the V181 is used to adjust volume range for different headphones


----------



## betula

I was wondering if anyone had any similar experience or just has some valuable thoughts to share on this brief encounter of mine:

I have been using my ADI2 since April with great satisfaction mostly driving Audeze headphones in the same exact setup with the same cables since then. Today I suddenly had an error message on the screen: "Overload/Short detected, Phones deactivated, Pull out phones plug to reset output state". (This was the 6.3mm-1/4inch plug.)

I followed the instruction, but even after several reinsertion of the plug the error message didn't disappear. After switching the unit off, it was working well again for about a minute: when the message reappeared.

Of course I unplugged and re-plugged everything, I even tried a different headphone cable. 

The IEM output was working well all the time and none of my troubleshooting steps solved the problem of the 6.3mm-1/4inch headphone output. 
I tried a simple reset by pressing the power button for a few seconds: still nothing.

Then I found this post mentioning a factory reset and apparently this has solved the problem, now everything is back to normal. 
Any thoughts?


----------



## Slaphead

betula said:


> I was wondering if anyone had any similar experience or just has some valuable thoughts to share on this brief encounter of mine:
> 
> I have been using my ADI2 since April with great satisfaction mostly driving Audeze headphones in the same exact setup with the same cables since then. Today I suddenly had an error message on the screen: "Overload/Short detected, Phones deactivated, Pull out phones plug to reset output state". (This was the 6.3mm-1/4inch plug.)
> 
> ...



Difficult to say. I've heard of this overload/short thing quite a bit on the ADI-2's (both dac and pro) and apparently the only long term solution is to have it serviced by RME.

If you google "RME ADI-2 dac overload" then there are number of results from the RME forums where the RME staff say return it for repair.


----------



## betula

Slaphead said:


> Difficult to say. I've heard of this overload/short thing quite a bit on the ADI-2's (both dac and pro) and apparently the only long term solution is to have it serviced by RME.
> 
> If you google "RME ADI-2 dac overload" then there are number of results from the RME forums where the RME staff say return it for repair.


I can do that of course, but after factory reset now it is working well. Perhaps a safety circuit shuts down too early (too sensitive) and RME can easily rectify this?
It is strange though that this happened the first time after 3 months of ownership.


----------



## Slaphead

betula said:


> I can do that of course, but after factory reset now it is working well. Perhaps a safety circuit shuts down too early (too sensitive) and RME can easily rectify this?
> It is strange though that this happened the first time after 3 months of ownership.



Well, see how it goes.


----------



## Traiguen (Jul 24, 2020)

On a slightly different subject.... could I ask for your help using the EQ?
If I have a headphone which has a peak at 6K of 3db... can I go in the EQ exactly to the 6K and decrease it accordingly?
Also, what does the Q actually do?  Please see the below pic.... you see how the blue line drops in the 10k band?.  I increased the Q to 2.5 and then this happened (the sharp drop) but surprisedly the vocals sound great after I did this.  It sounds as if I accentuated the highs in the vocals... but the line is going down instead of up which would actually be an increase in the highs... Sorry, I guess I am confused.
How does the Q (quality factor) affects the sound?


----------



## TheRH

What tube amps are you using with the RME?


----------



## Matias

Traiguen said:


> On a slightly different subject.... could I ask for your help using the EQ?
> If I have a headphone which has a peak at 6K of 3db... can I go in the EQ exactly to the 6K and decrease it accordingly?
> Also, what does the Q actually do?  Please see the below pic.... you see how the blue line drops in the 10k band?.  I increased the Q to 2.5 and then this happened (the sharp drop) but surprisedly the vocals sound great after I did this.  It sounds as if I accentuated the highs in the vocals... but the line is going down instead of up which would actually be an increase in the highs... Sorry, I guess I am confused.
> How does the Q (quality factor) affects the sound?


Q is how wide the peak/dip is going to be, while gain is how high/low is its level.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TheRH said:


> What tube amps are you using with the RME?



I use a Lyr 2


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Traiguen said:


> On a slightly different subject.... could I ask for your help using the EQ?
> If I have a headphone which has a peak at 6K of 3db... can I go in the EQ exactly to the 6K and decrease it accordingly?
> Also, what does the Q actually do?  Please see the below pic.... you see how the blue line drops in the 10k band?.  I increased the Q to 2.5 and then this happened (the sharp drop) but surprisedly the vocals sound great after I did this.  It sounds as if I accentuated the highs in the vocals... but the line is going down instead of up which would actually be an increase in the highs... Sorry, I guess I am confused.
> How does the Q (quality factor) affects the sound?



It takes some effort to figure out the interface and controls but it is quite powerful. Check youtube, RME has some videos to get started. 

Imagine pefect response curve is flat. You want to make your curve -3 dB at 6Khz. Sounds like HD 800 btw


----------



## Traiguen

gimmeheadroom said:


> I use a Lyr 2


I am using the Ampsandsound Leeloo.


----------



## elisiX

TheRH said:


> What tube amps are you using with the RME?



I don't own it, but I spent a good 3-4hrs with a WA22 and the RME. I liked it.

I think, based on some of the things i've read about the WA2 vs WA22, that the WA2 might be a better fit.


----------



## VeeAndBobby

I have a question for users of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. I just ordered one and it is on the way to me.  I also ordered a Headamp GS-X mini, assuming that the amp would make a significant improvement compared to the headphone outputs of the RME. Was that a mistake? Should I return the GS-X mini and just use the RME as a DAC/amp? You can see my headphones listed below. I most often use the Ether 2 and Meze Empyrean. I have cables and adapters allowing me to connect them balanced or unbalanced.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

VeeAndBobby said:


> I have a question for users of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. I just ordered one and it is on the way to me.  I also ordered a Headamp GS-X mini, assuming that the amp would make a significant improvement compared to the headphone outputs of the RME. Was that a mistake? Should I return the GS-X mini and just use the RME as a DAC/amp? You can see my headphones listed below. I most often use the Ether 2 and Meze Empyrean. I have cables and adapters allowing me to connect them balanced or unbalanced.



If you have the money to spend the GS-X has fans and will probably not go unused. I don't know about the specific headphones you listed.


----------



## darmccombs

VeeAndBobby said:


> I have a question for users of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. I just ordered one and it is on the way to me.  I also ordered a Headamp GS-X mini, assuming that the amp would make a significant improvement compared to the headphone outputs of the RME. Was that a mistake? Should I return the GS-X mini and just use the RME as a DAC/amp? You can see my headphones listed below. I most often use the Ether 2 and Meze Empyrean. I have cables and adapters allowing me to connect them balanced or unbalanced.


I have both amps.  The RME makes for a very good dac when used with another amp.  Weather you'll see much of improvement by adding the GS-X may depend on each headphone.  In general, the hard to drive a headphone, the more benefit you will get with the GS-X.  I say in general, because my IEM (IER-Z1R), which sounds very good on the RME amp, is GREAT on the GS-X.  You wouldn't think an IEM would benefit from the extra power, and I am running unbalanced on both amps with the IEM.

My harder to drive ZMF Verite Closed (300ohm), is also pretty noticeable, but I expected that.  The RME can drive 300ohm headphones pretty well, but not effortlessly.

In general with the GS-X the heaphones open up with more soundstage, high end sprakle, tighter/faster bass, with more bass.  It's not a night and day difference with my headphones, but a nice improvement.


----------



## Cevisi

Does somebody know if the bass/treble function work as a shelf or peak ?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> Does somebody know if the bass/treble function work as a shelf or peak ?



It should be in the manual or you can ask on the RME forums if somebody doesn't know the answer here.


----------



## Viszla

Waiting for my RME adi 2 Dac. Meanwhile Build a „rack„ that fit my hpa 281 and RME


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jul 28, 2020)

Nice and your window sill with the plant reminded me of mine 

I think you will have a killer combo, I love my V280.

With the RME and a V280/281, you will hear all the 800 is capable of and even enjoy it!


----------



## elisiX

I'm trialling a friends V281 with my RME ADI-2 this coming week. Can't wait!


----------



## TheRH

I did my RME, I have had mine a little over a week now.


----------



## acguitar84

I really enjoy my RME/GSX-Mini/HD800s rig!


----------



## DitheringFool

Is there a way to switch between the analog outputs on ADI-2 Pro/DAC?

On my ADI-2 Pro, I'm using my XLR to power my tubes and the 1/4" out to my speakers.

It is currently outputting to both my amp and my speakers. I was hoping there was an option to switch between the two, but I can't find anything in the manual.


----------



## Slaphead

DitheringFool said:


> Is there a way to switch between the analog outputs on ADI-2 Pro/DAC?
> 
> On my ADI-2 Pro, I'm using my XLR to power my tubes and the 1/4" out to my speakers.
> 
> It is currently outputting to both my amp and my speakers. I was hoping there was an option to switch between the two, but I can't find anything in the manual.



Nope - the XLR and the RCA are not independent - signal is always sent to both if no headphones are plugged or Line Out is selected as the output.


----------



## darmccombs

DitheringFool said:


> Is there a way to switch between the analog outputs on ADI-2 Pro/DAC?
> 
> On my ADI-2 Pro, I'm using my XLR to power my tubes and the 1/4" out to my speakers.
> 
> It is currently outputting to both my amp and my speakers. I was hoping there was an option to switch between the two, but I can't find anything in the manual.


Overall the RME is excellent, but this is one of the few sections that I don't think clearly explains things in the RME manual.  Anyway, here you go...

14.1.3 Phones / DSD​The subpage Phones / DSD has the following entries:​Mute Line​OFF, vs. Phones, Toggle Ph/Line. Toggle Plugged. The default, vs. Phones, activates mute of Line Outs when inserting a phones or IEM plug. Alternatively Toggle activates the ability to manually switch between 'front' and 'rear'. It allows to have the Phones/IEM connected all the time. To change push the VOLUME knob for half a second. Via Remap Function Keys this func- tion can also be controlled by one of the four function keys or the remote control. Toggle Plugged additionally activates the switching between Phones and IEM, automatically detected by the sensor contacts of the two outputs. Which also works via Remote and Function Keys, if Toggle Ph/Line has been activated there.​


----------



## DitheringFool

Slaphead said:


> Nope - the XLR and the RCA are not independent - signal is always sent to both if no headphones are plugged or Line Out is selected as the output.





darmccombs said:


> Overall the RME is excellent, but this is one of the few sections that I don't think clearly explains things in the RME manual.  Anyway, here you go...
> 
> 14.1.3 Phones / DSD​The subpage Phones / DSD has the following entries:​Mute Line​OFF, vs. Phones, Toggle Ph/Line. Toggle Plugged. The default, vs. Phones, activates mute of Line Outs when inserting a phones or IEM plug. Alternatively Toggle activates the ability to manually switch between 'front' and 'rear'. It allows to have the Phones/IEM connected all the time. To change push the VOLUME knob for half a second. Via Remap Function Keys this func- tion can also be controlled by one of the four function keys or the remote control. Toggle Plugged additionally activates the switching between Phones and IEM, automatically detected by the sensor contacts of the two outputs. Which also works via Remote and Function Keys, if Toggle Ph/Line has been activated there.​



Thank you guys for the response.

I have my speakers plugged into my tubes (my tubes are also plugged into ADI-2 Pro) as well as my ADI-2. I was hoping for a solution to seamlessly switch between outputting my speakers from my tubes and from ADI-2.


----------



## TheRH

Has anyone else RME had to "break-in"? It seems that mine has. This may be a placebo, but after two weeks wow the sounds is on a whole nother level.


----------



## Forsaked

TheRH said:


> Has anyone else RME had to "break-in"? It seems that mine has. This may be a placebo, but after two weeks wow the sounds is on a whole nother level.


More like Brain Burn-In, im sure it measures the same as when you got it.


----------



## technobear

Forsaked said:


> More like Brain Burn-In, im sure it measures the same as when you got it.


If my brain burns in then how come all my other kit sounds just the same as it did before???


----------



## Cevisi

technobear said:


> If my brain burns in then how come all my other kit sounds just the same as it did before???


Because you now have a psychological emotional bounding to your dac. 

Like your child is the best. Or your partner. Or the car you drive the longer you have it the more you like it. Or your favorite sports team.

But thats just my thinking i dont have any proof for anything


----------



## Slaphead

TheRH said:


> Has anyone else RME had to "break-in"? It seems that mine has. This may be a placebo, but after two weeks wow the sounds is on a whole nother level.



No, it's an electronic device with no moving parts - there is no burn in. The only burn in that I personally can accept, that  possibly happens, is with transducers as they are a moving part, but so far I've never heard any change in any headphone or speaker from new out of the box.


----------



## linearly

Cevisi said:


> Does a better amp really benefit the adi 2. I heard some reviewers say it mainly increases bass and stage.


I've found that it does, but it depends on the headphones. With my HD650s bass was ok, stage was fine, the only thing that didn't feel 'right' was the midrange, it sounded flat and emotionless, music wasn't engaging anymore. My HD 25's sounded amazing tho, so it depends on each headphone. The HD650 was fixed by using the ADI 2 as a DAC into the A90 amp, very happy with this pair, and I don't know if I can do any better, perhaps a different 'flavour' with a tube amp in the future. Be wary with the A90 and using USB-> RCA with any DAC from PC as it will carry noise, while moving mouse etc. Noise will go away if XLRs are used, or you can use RCAs with toslink optical connection, this is a A90 problem, not a RME one as it happened with other DACs too.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Slaphead said:


> No, it's an electronic device with no moving parts - there is no burn in. The only burn in that I personally can accept, that  possibly happens, is with transducers as they are a moving part, but so far I've never heard any change in any headphone or speaker from new out of the box.


I would agree that there is no appreciable burn-in _per se_, since there are no moving parts.  However, warmup is another story.  All electronic components will increase their temperature once power has been applied and component values like resistances will change to some extent due to this.  This is why test equipment manufacturers typically calibrate their products after they have been warmed up for x minutes/hours.  This is also why I leave my DAC on all the time - to keep all of its components at their optimal operating temperature.  However, in my opinion, any changes seen in performance after an hour of warmup _are_ placebo, unless you're running your equipment in a freezer.


----------



## betula

Our senses can easily trick us, especially hearing. I have seen respected reviewers failing blind tests. In high-end audio you often have to really focus on the differences which you simply wouldn't notice if you were just enjoying your music. These differences can often be measured in $£€  hundreds or even thousands. 

At the same time the sensitivity of our hearing differs too. Some can easily hear the subtle differences where it is all the same for others, even in 'audiophile' circles. 
You have to put a personal price tag on what difference (improvement) is worth it for you.

DAC burn in or cable burn in I don't really believe in. Yes, DACs and cables can make a difference, but they don't really need to 'burn in'. It is more like your brain/ears are adjusting to the new sound. Some people can adjust quicker, some slower. Even folks who can easily and quickly distinguish between two new sound profiles it can take 2-3 days for them to _fully_ adjust to a new sound or fully appreciate it.

Also there are headphones/amps where the brain adjustment happens quicker/easier and sometimes it takes more time to appreciate something. For example the Nighthawk takes days to fully adjust to while avoiding listening to anything else. When I am coming back to my home system after 2 weeks holiday it always takes a day to really appreciate it again. Of course it sounds great immediately, but takes time to see (or rather hear) why I spent so much. Of course, the following day I fall in love again. 

I can btw recommend this antidote for upgraditis. Stay away from your system for two weeks and see if you really want to purchase that next headphone or amp. (Also reading positive reviews of your current setup can help.  ) Of course, I know it is just delaying the inevitable. Or maybe not if you have done these rounds for hundred times...

Some headphone drivers ease up in the first 100 hours of usage due to mechanical movement. Mostly the treble becomes smoother and the bass fuller. Some amps can also sound a bit thin or raw in the beginning and they become more lifelike or fuller sounding. DACs? That is brain adjustment in my opinion. Even with headphone burn-in more happens in the brain than in the actual drivers. There is some degree of burn-in with certain equipment but it is ridiculously overemphasised in this community.


----------



## Tuneslover

I simply run new equipment for 40-50 hours on a continuous basis.  Of course I'll have periodic listens during that time.  All that I know is that the sound is going to be as close to optimal as possible regardless whether burn-in is real or not.


----------



## cistercian

TheRH said:


> Has anyone else RME had to "break-in"? It seems that mine has. This may be a placebo, but after two weeks wow the sounds is on a whole nother level.



 I don't think mine has...but when I first heard it, it was very different compared to my material before. I had been using an old Sony CDP291 for 30 years.
 I bought a tascam cd200bt and found the analog output totally unacceptable. Low frequency response was very poor. So I bought the RME and used the tascam digital coax out to drive it. I had no idea how poor the Sony DAC chip in my unit was until I heard the RME. The difference was EPIC. So much clarity and detail...and a flat frequency response. I have been listening to it a lot and the experience has been remarkable. 
  I never knew what I was missing! I am getting used to the new performance and wow is it superb!
 My system is just the transport, the RME, a power amp, and some large JBL speakers. I use the RME for my phones. HD600 and other
 Sennheisers. 

 My perception is changing fast. My car audio system is really starting to really sound bad now...this is natural.

 Best CD quality I have ever heard, spectacular!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

cistercian said:


> I don't think mine has...but when I first heard it, it was very different compared to my material before. I had been using an old Sony CDP291 for 30 years.
> I bought a tascam cd200bt and found the analog output totally unacceptable. Low frequency response was very poor. So I bought the RME and used the tascam digital coax out to drive it. I had no idea how poor the Sony DAC chip in my unit was until I heard the RME. The difference was EPIC. So much clarity and detail...and a flat frequency response. I have been listening to it a lot and the experience has been remarkable.
> I never knew what I was missing! I am getting used to the new performance and wow is it superb!
> My system is just the transport, the RME, a power amp, and some large JBL speakers. I use the RME for my phones. HD600 and other
> ...



Yes. I have a couple of TASCAM minidisc decks and while they sound fine by themselves, running them through an Oppo was kind of an amazing difference.


----------



## linearly

Ok so after completing my audio chain with some good XLR cables (Van den Hul 3T The Mountain) and power cables I could compare the RME ADI-2 amp out versus the Topping A90 with my HD650s. 

I have to admit from what I'm hearing now that I was wrong before saying that the ADI 2 amp is bad with my 650s. The problem with the midrange was because of the AKMs 'Velvet Sound', where the midrange takes a dip and sounds smoother, because I prefer the ESS sound signature, I fixed that with some EQ, raised 2,3,4,5k by 2db.

Now why do I prefer the ADI-2 amp vs. the A90? The differences are very small, ADI-2 has more air and space, and somehow sounds cleaner then the A90. The A90 has more bass, slam but sounds more closed in. If you want more slam with the ADI-2 you can boost up the bass or other frequencies. Its that simple.

The 3T XLR cable costs more then the RME (its worth every penny imho), with a good power cable and the A90 I could've bought 2 more RMEs. My mistake was not spending more time fiddling with the EQ, filters and other settings until I found the sound I enjoy.

So please, if you don't like something about the ADI-2, remember how many settings it has, and you can make it sound as you like with no extra cost. It really is an incredible DAC/AMP.


----------



## MLGrado (Aug 7, 2020)

_Finally, it is happening!  Smack dab in the middle of my iFi vs RME 'smack down'.  Well perhaps 'smack around' is more like it.  In the middle of second round of comparison._ 

I have had the 4490 version of the RME for awhile now.. 9 months or so I believe.  I have been using the iFi iDSD Pro exclusively for 6 weeks, minus a few days in the hospital for the ol' ticker.

Going through my test song list now with each DAC.  RME first up in the critical listening round.  I hope to have the review done within a week or two.  I have read effusive praise about the RME, and how it is a giant slayer, you need to spend more than $5000 to get something better sounding.  Or at least it should be that much or the difference isn't worth the trouble.

Only variable in the test will be the DAC's themselves.  Supporting equipment is as follows...

_*HifiMan HE560* Planar 'phones
*2014 iMac Mini *with Roon
*Synology NAS Drive* 20TB
*SBooster 15v LPS* (used with each DAC)
*Intona USB 2.0* Galvanic Isolator
Original *iFi iUSB*
Original *iFi Gemini *divided power/data cable
*Custom 6v LPS *for iUSB
*iFi iPurifier 3
Icon Audio HP8 MKII *headphone amp
*NOS Tubes exclusive to this test.*  Tubes were taken from sealed boxes
Pair of *Sylvania (branded Zenith) 6F8G* late 40's early 50's
One *CSF (St. Egreve France tube factory) Black Plate 12AX7S* made in '64.  (crazy uber rare variant.  Doubt I will ever see more than the two I own)_


Test is producing some interesting observations and at least so far one 'aha'! Moment, (that is why X sometimes always sounds like Y)

After this DAC shootout is done, its time for some 'spring cleaning' in ALL my audio/visual spaces, so disregard somewhat the messy setup..

Here they are, RME running, iFi waiting not so patiently for her laps around the track..........


----------



## iFi audio

MLGrado said:


> _Finally, it is happening!  Smack dab in the middle of my iFi vs RME 'smack down'.  Well perhaps 'smack around' is more like it.  In the middle of second round of comparison._
> 
> I have had the 4490 version of the RME for awhile now.. 9 months or so I believe.  I have been using the iFi iDSD Pro exclusively for 6 weeks, minus a few days in the hospital for the ol' ticker.
> 
> ...



How exciting! If I may ask, when you might have some impressions for us?

Edit: a week or so! Cool!


----------



## Louisiana

For me, the combination of RME and ifi is the best ever!
I couldn't be happier at all.


----------



## Swisshead

Yes, this is an absolutly great combination! I am very happy too!


----------



## Cevisi

What about the ifi can single ended vs rme single ended ?


----------



## linearly

Love all the setups pictures, keep them coming. This is mine and I couldn't be happier with my ADI-2.


----------



## scarfacegt

Curious about this dac/amp.What can i expect from it? I have fiio btr5,dragonfly cobalt and an nad c338 with headphone jack.The headphones/iems i use is beyerdynamic dt1770 pro,amiron home,fiio fh7 and fa7.I also have an modhouse t50rp mk3 on its way in late fall.Have read some reviews of this dac/amp.Is it really that good,and would i get an huge sound improvment with my headphones?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

scarfacegt said:


> Curious about this dac/amp.What can i expect from it? I have fiio btr5,dragonfly cobalt and an nad c338 with headphone jack.The headphones/iems i use is beyerdynamic dt1770 pro,amiron home,fiio fh7 and fa7.I also have an modhouse t50rp mk3 on its way in late fall.Have read some reviews of this dac/amp.Is it really that good,and would i get an huge sound improvment with my headphones?



I expect it will not be optimal for your DT1770s and will not do a good job for the Argons at all. The DAC part is superb, the amp does not have enough voltage for 300 ohm Sennheisers and probably not 250 ohm Beyers, but I can't check because my DT1770s and RME are a few thousand km away from each other right now.

For the money I don't think the DAC can be beaten for great sound and useful features. But for a lot of headphones you're gonna need a good amp to get the most out of it.


----------



## scarfacegt

gimmeheadroom said:


> I expect it will not be optimal for your DT1770s and will not do a good job for the Argons at all. The DAC part is superb, the amp does not have enough voltage for 300 ohm Sennheisers and probably not 250 ohm Beyers, but I can't check because my DT1770s and RME are a few thousand km away from each other right now.
> 
> For the money I don't think the DAC can be beaten for great sound and useful features. But for a lot of headphones you're gonna need a good amp to get the most out of it.



Ok.Tnx for reply  But shouldnt it have more power than cobalt and btr5?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

scarfacegt said:


> Ok.Tnx for reply  But shouldnt it have more power than cobalt and btr5?



Yes it will but it won't help much. It is common that people use substandard amplification and are happy with how their headphones sound. That does not mean that they will continue to be happy with how they sound after they hear them out of an amp that drives them correctly and then go back to their original amps.


----------



## Phoniac (Aug 9, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I expect it will not be optimal for your DT1770s and will not do a good job for the Argons at all. The DAC part is superb, the amp does not have enough voltage for 300 ohm Sennheisers and probably not 250 ohm Beyers, but I can't check because my DT1770s and RME are a few thousand km away from each other right now.
> 
> For the money I don't think the DAC can be beaten for great sound and useful features. But for a lot of headphones you're gonna need a good amp to get the most out of it.



I don't _expect_ - I _know_ that the DAC drives the DT1770s perfectly. You might want to disclose what your _doesn't have enough voltage_ statement is based on? AFAIK the DAC (and Pro) spit out higher voltages than most others. The manual says +22dBu or 10Vrms. In ASR they measured 310mW for a 300 Ohms load, while the highly praised Topping A 90 just reached 196 mW. These are facts. Anyone saying it doesn't have enough power for high impedance phones (which are super easy to drive, available voltage just defines max volume) has yet to proof that. I have 250 and 600 Ohm phones and they can be driven to ear destroying levels easily.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Phoniac said:


> I don't _expect_ - I _know_ that the DAC drives the DT1770s perfectly. You might want to disclose what your _doesn't have enough voltage_ statement is based on? AFAIK the DAC (and Pro) spit out higher voltages than most others. The manual says +22dBu or 10Vrms. In ASR they measured 310mW for a 300 Ohms load, while the highly praised Topping A 90 just reached 196 mW. These are facts. Anyone saying it doesn't have enough power for high impedance phones (which are super easy to drive, available voltage just defines max volume) has yet to proof that. I have 250 and 600 Ohm phones and they can be driven to ear destroying levels easily.



It's based on hearing 300 ohm Sennheisers out of at least a dozen amps and figuring out why they sounded lifeless and thin out of some and superb out of others.

300 ohm Sennheisers seem to need to be run off an amp that can swing at least 15V. They don't sound good to me out of the RME. Yes, an underpowered amp can make them earsplittingly loud but it cannot make them sound good. This is commonly known but apparently not commonly enough.

I found the same thing with the DT1770s. I ran them out of an amp with plenty of power and they sounded thin and lifeless on the first gain position. When I cranked up the gain to the second position (of 4) they changed character significantly.


----------



## scarfacegt

gimmeheadroom said:


> It's based on hearing 300 ohm Sennheisers out of at least a dozen amps and figuring out why they sounded lifeless and thin out of some and superb out of others.
> 
> 300 ohm Sennheisers seem to need to be run off an amp that can swing at least 15V. They don't sound good to me out of the RME. Yes, an underpowered amp can make them earsplittingly loud but it cannot make them sound good. This is commonly known but apparently not commonly enough.
> 
> I found the same thing with the DT1770s. I ran them out of an amp with plenty of power and they sounded thin and lifeless on the first gain position. When I cranked up the gain to the second position (of 4) they changed character significantly.



Any suggestion for an amp that have the power to drive modhouse argon t50rp mk3 and the beyers?


----------



## Cevisi

scarfacegt said:


> Curious about this dac/amp.What can i expect from it? I have fiio btr5,dragonfly cobalt and an nad c338 with headphone jack.The headphones/iems i use is beyerdynamic dt1770 pro,amiron home,fiio fh7 and fa7.I also have an modhouse t50rp mk3 on its way in late fall.Have read some reviews of this dac/amp.Is it really that good,and would i get an huge sound improvment with my headphones?


I drive the 1990 with them and they sound great. I prefer them on high gain instead of auto ref. Because for my ear they benefit more from the higher voltage then better sinad. I use them between -30 and -20 db at and +10 is the max so you have alot of room


----------



## gimmeheadroom

scarfacegt said:


> Any suggestion for an amp that have the power to drive modhouse argon t50rp mk3 and the beyers?



Where are you located?


----------



## scarfacegt

gimmeheadroom said:


> Where are you located?



Norway.So the not that many options


----------



## gimmeheadroom

scarfacegt said:


> Norway.So the not that many options



Haha, one of the best options is from Norway 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-atrox-v2.856675/

This amp is super for the DT1770s and the Argons.


----------



## scarfacegt

lake people g109,violectric v200,graham slee novo,jds labs atom amp,pro-ject s2 digital are some i have looked at,and are available here.I would prefer and amd/dac solution,but could always buy amp now,and dac later.


----------



## scarfacegt

gimmeheadroom said:


> Haha, one of the best options is from Norway
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-atrox-v2.856675/
> 
> This amp is super for the DT1770s and the Argons.



Oh my  Have to google this amp


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I have the V280 and it can drive everything I have with total control. I don't have an HE-6 though.

The Lake People / Violectric / Nimbus amps are fully recommended. But once in a while you come across a guy doing a special project and you can find a superb amp for very little money. Based on my experience with dacamps, I would prefer separates. In the price range of my DACamps I haven't found one with enough amp. It would be better if they were just straight DACs.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

scarfacegt said:


> Oh my  Have to google this amp



Also here, since the old address doesn't work. If you can't contact him via this

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=57521113

then send me a PM and I'll send you the email that @pofofo was kind enough to help me with.


----------



## scarfacegt

gimmeheadroom said:


> Also here, since the old address doesn't work. If you can't contact him via this
> 
> https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=57521113
> 
> then send me a PM and I'll send you the email that @pofofo was kind enough to help me with.



I found an used one.

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=187468247


----------



## gimmeheadroom

scarfacegt said:


> I found an used one.
> 
> https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=187468247



I can't read it and translator often loses critical detail. If it is in good condition and you have some buyer protection then for the price it would be excellent. When I bought it was 2499 Kr but even at 3999 Kr it is still more than fair for the level of performance.


----------



## scarfacegt

gimmeheadroom said:


> I can't read it and translator often loses critical detail. If it is in good condition and you have some buyer protection then for the price it would be excellent. When I bought it was 2499 Kr but even at 3999 Kr it is still more than fair for the level of performance.



It says its like new


----------



## gimmeheadroom

scarfacegt said:


> It says its like new



If the pics are good and you have some guarantee it's a good price.


----------



## Cevisi

gimmeheadroom said:


> Haha, one of the best options is from Norway
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-atrox-v2.856675/
> 
> This amp is super for the DT1770s and the Argons.


This amp looks great


----------



## Cevisi

gimmeheadroom said:


> If the pics are good and you have some guarantee it's a good price.


Do you also think the beyer 250 ohm tesla driver could benefit from a higher voltage swing as the 10v from the rme on high gain. Any experience there ?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I am not sure if I understand your question. I did have a similar experience with the DT1770 when I started on the 1st gain position of 4 with the ATROX V2. It sounded thin and not very dynamic. I didn't know what to expect since the headphones and amp was new to me. Then after a few hours of listening I decided to see if anything changed when I increased to gain position #2. DT1770s came alive, full and punchy. To me it was a familiar moment from what I experienced with Sennheisers.


----------



## pofofo

gimmeheadroom said:


> I am not sure if I understand your question. I did have a similar experience with the DT1770 when I started on the 1st gain position of 4 with the ATROX V2. It sounded thin and not very dynamic. I didn't know what to expect since the headphones and amp was new to me. Then after a few hours of listening I decided to see if anything changed when I increased to gain position #2. DT1770s came alive, full and punchy. To me it was a familiar moment from what I experienced with Sennheisers.


Ive had this amp longer than @gimmeheadroom, but he told me to switch it up to stage 2 gain when using my Sennheiser HD6XX, and indeed, it added some punch and some more activity down low.


----------



## Slaphead

gimmeheadroom said:


> *It's based on hearing 300 ohm Sennheisers out of at least a dozen amps and figuring out why they sounded lifeless and thin out of some and superb out of others.*
> 
> 300 ohm Sennheisers seem to need to be run off an amp that can swing at least 15V. They don't sound good to me out of the RME. Yes, an underpowered amp can make them earsplittingly loud but it cannot make them sound good. This is commonly known but apparently not commonly enough.
> 
> I found the same thing with the DT1770s. I ran them out of an amp with plenty of power and they sounded thin and lifeless on the first gain position. When I cranked up the gain to the second position (of 4) they changed character significantly.



If you're talking about the HD650 then IME they are some of the fussiest headphones ever. I can accept that a 2K plus pair of headphones may need some careful amp matching, but the HD650 cost only $4-500. Yes they can sound absolutely great, but the cost of the headphones doesn't really warrant the need to have a 1k dedicated amp in order to drive them.

It's why out of the original top tier 3 headphones from 15 or so years ago I've only got the AKG 701 and the Beyerdynamic DT800. The HD650s were just too fickle and I wasn't going to spend a lot of time and money trying to get them to work, especially when the other 2 shined when driven by anything half decent.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Slaphead said:


> If you're talking about the HD650 then IME they are some of the fussiest headphones ever. I can accept that a 2K plus pair of headphones may need some careful amp matching, but the HD650 cost only $4-500. Yes they can sound absolutely great, but the cost of the headphones doesn't really warrant the need to have a 1k dedicated amp in order to drive them.
> 
> It's why out of the original top tier 3 headphones from 15 or so years ago I've only got the AKG 701 and the Beyerdynamic DT800. The HD650s were just too fickle and I wasn't going to spend a lot of time and money trying to get them to work, especially when the other 2 shined when driven by anything half decent.



The 6xx is identical to the 650 in sound (if not necessarily build quality). It seems like it is the best selling audiophile headphone ever. I doubt they are all pairing it with 1k amps and also doubt they are all listening to lifeless sound. I think it works just fine with decent amps under 1k, IMHO.

As an example, I have the Woo Audio WA3, an OTL tube amp which was selling for $599 brand new. It drives the HD-600 and HD-650 like nothing else (it seems to be the consensus, not just my humble opinion).

So, for $220 for the 6xx... and a decent amp under $1k, and yet someone would rather choose a clunky, mis-tuned Audeze. No thanks.

To be clear, I think the 600 is far superior to the 650.


----------



## albertmuc

Phoniac said:


> I don't _expect_ - I _know_ that the DAC drives the DT1770s perfectly. You might want to disclose what your _doesn't have enough voltage_ statement is based on? AFAIK the DAC (and Pro) spit out higher voltages than most others. The manual says +22dBu or 10Vrms. In ASR they measured 310mW for a 300 Ohms load, while the highly praised Topping A 90 just reached 196 mW. These are facts. Anyone saying it doesn't have enough power for high impedance phones (which are super easy to drive, available voltage just defines max volume) has yet to proof that. I have 250 and 600 Ohm phones and they can be driven to ear destroying levels easily.



Perhaps the RME is not too weak, especially since a suitable volume is reached, rather its low output resistance prevents synergies.  Beyerdynamic's in-house headphone amplifiers have a comparatively high output resistance of 100 ohms.  The solution could be an impedance adjustment, see point 3: http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/tipstricks.htm
By adjusting the impedance a falling frequency response is achieved.  By the way, what is the RME's EQ good for ...


----------



## Cevisi

albertmuc said:


> Perhaps the RME is not too weak, especially since a suitable volume is reached, rather its low output resistance prevents synergies.  Beyerdynamic's in-house headphone amplifiers have a comparatively high output resistance of 100 ohms.  The solution could be an impedance adjustment, see point 3: http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/tipstricks.htm
> By adjusting the impedance a falling frequency response is achieved.  By the way, what is the RME's EQ good for ...







Here is a graph of the 1990 green line 120Ω and red line 0.2Ω

We can see it mostly affect the lows and lower mids

So these beyer drivers should sound a touch warmer with high impedance outputs

Measurements are from diyaudioheaven
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-a-i/dt-1990-pro/


----------



## scarfacegt (Aug 10, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I am not sure if I understand your question. I did have a similar experience with the DT1770 when I started on the 1st gain position of 4 with the ATROX V2. It sounded thin and not very dynamic. I didn't know what to expect since the headphones and amp was new to me. Then after a few hours of listening I decided to see if anything changed when I increased to gain position #2. DT1770s came alive, full and punchy. To me it was a familiar moment from what I experienced with Sennheisers.




Is there a way that i can use the dragonfly cobalt with the atrox?


----------



## Viszla

Great!


----------



## Tuneslover

Using the balance control on the RME ADI-2 DAC has been a revelation to the sound of my system.  I know that the hearing in my right ear is slightly impaired compared to my left ear (evident when I'm on the phone).  Seeing how the RME gives you the opportunity to adjust for this, I decided to give it a try and I was pleasantly surprised by how much better the sonic image now comes across.  All I needed to do is shift the balance only 3-4 notches to the right and suddenly the width and especially the depth came into stunning focus.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Viszla said:


> Great!



Ray Charles!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

scarfacegt said:


> Is there a way that i can use the dragonfly cobalt with the atrox?



Sure, get a cable with two RCA phono plugs (cinch) on one end which terminates in whatever plugs into your dragonfly.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Slaphead said:


> If you're talking about the HD650 then IME they are some of the fussiest headphones ever. I can accept that a 2K plus pair of headphones may need some careful amp matching, but the HD650 cost only $4-500. Yes they can sound absolutely great, but the cost of the headphones doesn't really warrant the need to have a 1k dedicated amp in order to drive them.
> 
> It's why out of the original top tier 3 headphones from 15 or so years ago I've only got the AKG 701 and the Beyerdynamic DT800. The HD650s were just too fickle and I wasn't going to spend a lot of time and money trying to get them to work, especially when the other 2 shined when driven by anything half decent.



I meant the 600 because I'm Old Skool and don't ever buy revisions except by mistake, but the 650/6XX should be identical in that regard.

I could say the cost of the headphones exactly makes it ok to have to spend a thousand euros|dollars|pounds on an amp because they scale so well that it's almost impossible to throw too much amp at them and for the same price it's hard to find a pair of headphones with the fidelity, balance, and overall greatness of a pair of 600s. Or I could say the reality is that they're not hard to drive in 1997, they just look hard to drive in 2020. When they came out most people were still using receivers or healthy integrated amps intended to run 100W or more into 8 ohms. They provided plenty of voltage. Any reasonable tube OTL amp will do a great job (WA3, Valhalla 2, Feliks, etc.) and so will a Meier Corda Jazz-ff solid state amp which is available for a killer price last time I checked.

I don't know if you have tried running a pair of DT1990s or DT1770s off enough amp but you'll see they also benefit greatly from enough voltage.


----------



## iFi audio

Swisshead said:


> Yes, this is an absolutly great combination! I am very happy too!





Louisiana said:


> For me, the combination of RME and ifi is the best ever!
> I couldn't be happier at all.



This starts to look like a trend


----------



## scarfacegt

gimmeheadroom said:


> Haha, one of the best options is from Norway
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-atrox-v2.856675/
> 
> This amp is super for the DT1770s and the Argons.



So i have conntacted the seller.He has gone down in price.Would the rme adi 2 work fine with this amp?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

scarfacegt said:


> So i have conntacted the seller.He has gone down in price.Would the rme adi 2 work fine with this amp?



Certainly. It's a great DAC.


----------



## scarfacegt

So then i got a god deal on the atrox amp.The seller is sending it tomorrow.I also bought an new rme adi 2 fs 😊


----------



## scarfacegt

gimmeheadroom said:


> Certainly. It's a great DAC.



Tnx for the tip about the atrox amp 😊 I got it for an good price,and its only 1 year old.The seller described it as new 😊


----------



## gimmeheadroom

scarfacegt said:


> Tnx for the tip about the atrox amp 😊 I got it for an good price,and its only 1 year old.The seller described it as new 😊



You will have quite the amazing setup when it arrives. Post pics!


----------



## Gilly1978

Thinking of getting this DAC.  Is it still worth it in 2020?  Looking to pair it with some Focals.


----------



## Cevisi

Gilly1978 said:


> Thinking of getting this DAC.  Is it still worth it in 2020?  Looking to pair it with some Focals.


Yes it is worth when you want to use the features. actually it got a revision in mid 2019 wich measures better has a new filter and a new remote control


----------



## Slim1970

Gilly1978 said:


> Thinking of getting this DAC.  Is it still worth it in 2020?  Looking to pair it with some Focals.


Yes, it’s more than worth it. It pairs great not only with Focal headphones but with any low impedance headphone. The RME is feature packaged and I can’t think of a DAC/Amp unit that can compete with it for its price.


----------



## scarfacegt

I have sold the cobalt.Im getting the rme 2 dac next monday i think.But i have an btr5 i can test the atrox amp with.Can i use this cable? Getting the amp tomorrow.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Sure, looks fine.


----------



## scarfacegt

Looking forward to test the atrox and rme.Ive had chord mojo,dragonfly black/cobalt,liquid sdac amp from drop and i have the nad c338 stereo amp with headphone jack.So it will be interesting testing my headphones with an powerfull amp.


----------



## DesignTaylor

Does anyone have the Pro version? I've been considering it since I like the idea of being able to pass digital on to another DAC if I wanted to use the EQ in the RME but have the option to do the final conversion through my Ares. Is that just too wacky? I'm also interested in using the onboard DAC but thought the option to switch between them would be cool. The ability to drive balanced headphones is also a big plus for me. But... the Pro version is almost twice the price.

Let me know your thoughts please!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

There's a separate thread on the Pro. I'm not sure if the digital out works on the Pro in DAC mode if that's what you meant. The Pro has ADC as well as DAC.


----------



## DesignTaylor

Thanks! I'll find the Pro thread and see what those guys have to say.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

DesignTaylor said:


> Thanks! I'll find the Pro thread and see what those guys have to say.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-pro-dac-headamp-an-a-lot-of-more-stunning-features.837026


----------



## scarfacegt

Anybody have any idea if i should have my laptop and fiio btr5 on 100% volume when used with an amp?


----------



## scarfacegt

.


----------



## scarfacegt

gimmeheadroom said:


> Sure, looks fine.



Hi.

Do you know if its left or right the volume on atrox is at zero volume? Its also at gain 2 i think


----------



## scarfacegt

Tested the atrox v2 amp 😊 And im just out of words.I now understand what people are saying about the importance of headphones and amp.The dt1770 was brought to life.The sound was so pure an clean.And the details and bass was just really really good at even low volume.Im thrilled at the results.Now im looking forward to get the rme adi 2 dac. 😊😊😊


----------



## Cevisi

scarfacegt said:


> Anybody have any idea if i should have my laptop and fiio btr5 on 100% volume when used with an amp?


Yes keep it on 100%


----------



## DaBlakPill

I found that it is easy to scratch off the white text printing on the rear of the ADI-2. I was cleaning it up and the "Made in Germany" print started to rub off. Now it just says "in Germany." It's giving me OCD. I might have to sell it now lol.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

DaBlakPill said:


> I found that it is easy to scratch off the white text printing on the rear of the ADI-2. I was cleaning it up and the "Made in Germany" print started to rub off. Now it just says "in Germany." It's giving me OCD. I might have to sell it now lol.



As long as the Made in Germany didn't rub off to reveal Made in China, you're good. Keep it.


----------



## betula

DaBlakPill said:


> I found that it is easy to scratch off the white text printing on the rear of the ADI-2. I was cleaning it up and the "Made in Germany" print started to rub off. Now it just says "in Germany." It's giving me OCD. I might have to sell it now lol.


When OCD fires back. Why would you scrub the back of the ADI2 so hard?


----------



## DaBlakPill

betula said:


> When OCD fires back. Why would you scrub the back of the ADI2 so hard?


I didn't lol. I used some Isopropyl alcohol maybe thats why it rubbed off.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

DaBlakPill said:


> I found that it is easy to scratch off the white text printing on the rear of the ADI-2. I was cleaning it up and the "Made in Germany" print started to rub off. Now it just says "in Germany." It's giving me OCD. I might have to sell it now lol.



Sure but you can only sell it "...in Germany" now


----------



## frogmeat69

Why would you need alcohol to clean your DAC? You fondling it after eating fried chicken?? I dust mine once a week, and it looks just as good as new.


----------



## DaBlakPill

frogmeat69 said:


> Why would you need alcohol to clean your DAC? You fondling it after eating fried chicken?? I dust mine once a week, and it looks just as good as new.


A family member sneezed over it. Got to kill those germs you know


----------



## Cevisi

I actually have a microfiber cloth on top of the rme. and the remote control on the cloth to clean the dac and my headphones frequently.works great


----------



## Louisiana

DaBlakPill said:


> A family member sneezed over it. Got to kill those germs you know



😂😂😂


----------



## gimmeheadroom

DaBlakPill said:


> A family member sneezed over it. Got to kill those germs you know



That's where you wenty wrong. Some Jim Beam or even a beer would have killed two birds with one stone


----------



## scarfacegt




----------



## scarfacegt




----------



## pofofo

So what do you think? Så hva syns du?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

pofofo said:


> So what do you think? Så hva syns du?



Yes! We should all blame @pofofo


----------



## scarfacegt

pofofo said:


> So what do you think? Så hva syns du?



Have just listening a little bit.Tidal from laptop and youtube from sony bluray with coaxial.But it sounds really good.It sounds so clean and pure.And i can listening at low volume,without feeling that im missing something.Punchy bass,an dynamic.Great dac.And not to mention the atrox v2.What an great amp.First time i hear hard to drive headphone with enough power 😊 Tnx again for the recomandation 😊


----------



## scarfacegt (Aug 17, 2020)

Now i just hoping my modhouse t50rp mk3 will be finished soon.Ordered in may,and still waiting 😊


----------



## sabloke (Aug 19, 2020)

I love my ADI-2 so much that I just spent a small fortune on a Russian USB cable, the Tchernov Classic. Oh well, if I don't get increased transparency and detail by 27% and 9% respectively, at least I end up with a nice purple cable 😊👌


----------



## gimmeheadroom

scarfacegt said:


> Now i just hoping my modhouse t50rp mk3 will be finished soon.Ordered in may,and still waiting 😊



I think it will be a great amp to run the Fostex off of. I wanted to order one of those conversions, lemme know how you like it when it comes.


----------



## Nettlesomeness

Just pulled the trigger on the DAC and hoping I won't be disappointed compared to A&K SE100 as I didn't audition it


----------



## rickydenim

I can't seem to find it again but I recently got a recommended review on the RME ADI-2 that was on a music recording website. They went into detail on how good the DAC is etc and said that's it's been a great addition to their studio setup when monitoring.

They were clearly speaking about the non-pro version and it makes wonder how exactly they were using it. Would they be using an interface that has a digital output so that the ADI 2 DAC can be used or just to be selected for mixing playback.

I'm really keen on this unit but my interfaces doesnt have a digital output and my DAW (Studio One) doesn't allow for multiple audio device routing so it would be quite laborious switching between my Motu M4 for recording and then over to the RME for playback.

Of course the Pro covers this but is a lot more $. Again, just surprised me to see this article recommended this for studio...can't fully understand the usage.


----------



## silvahr

Nettlesomeness said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the DAC and hoping I won't be disappointed compared to A&K SE100 as I didn't audition it



Please share with us your impressions.
I had the ADI-2 and I loved it.
I decided to sell because I need something more portable (my professional life changed).
SE100 is one of the DAPs I’m looking at.


----------



## Nettlesomeness

silvahr said:


> Please share with us your impressions.
> I had the ADI-2 and I loved it.
> I decided to sell because I need something more portable (my professional life changed).
> SE100 is one of the DAPs I’m looking at.



 Will do hopefully once I figure out it's complicated menu and options
SE100 is one hell of a DAP but my only issue with it is that my PC is crashing randomly when it's connected as a DAC and I'm not sure if it's a driver issue. Mentioned that in SE100's post and hopefully someone in A&K will spot it.


----------



## silvahr

Louisiana said:


> I have now set everything up as you said.
> Windows sound switched to the Realtek driver, everything runs without problems.
> I insert another photo, so that you can see all my settings



Hello,
Is this the best way of getting Tidal Masters with ADI-2 (bit perfect) using Tidal app?
Works well?
Thank you in advance.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

silvahr said:


> Hello,
> Is this the best way of getting Tidal Masters with ADI-2 (bit perfect) using Tidal app?
> Works well?
> Thank you in advance.



RME doesn't support MQA.

If you want bit perfect then use the RME ASIO drivers. But then the RME will no longer automatically switch between sample rates.


----------



## silvahr

gimmeheadroom said:


> RME doesn't support MQA.
> 
> If you want bit perfect then use the RME ASIO drivers. But then the RME will no longer automatically switch between sample rates.



I know that.
But Asio Bridge doesn’t solve this issue?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

silvahr said:


> I know that.
> But Asio Bridge doesn’t solve this issue?



I haven't seen any agreement on whether it can be fixed. The two choices from RME are use the ASIO drivers and you get bit perfect but not the correct sample rate if it changes. Or don't use RME ASIO drivers and it will allow the sample rate to change but you don't get bit perfect. Maybe somebody said if you use coax the problem with the sample doesn't happen.

I don't use RME for Tidal because of this. If you want Tidal MQA consider getting an MQA DAC.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

gimmeheadroom said:


> Volume isn't the problem with Sennheisers. They sound lifeless out of the RME even though they get loud enough.


I again completely agree with you on this pairing.


----------



## sabloke

Having a laugh tonight with RME ADI-2 FS, Blon BL-03 Purple Edition IEM, Spinfit tips and a Linsoul cable. Tips and cable cost twice as much as the IEM  
Amazing bang for buck, so nevergiveup the oppoty to follow music and driams!!! Also, last but not least, annotation - letmusicburn!


----------



## pofofo

scarfacegt said:


> Have just listening a little bit.Tidal from laptop and youtube from sony bluray with coaxial.But it sounds really good.It sounds so clean and pure.And i can listening at low volume,without feeling that im missing something.Punchy bass,an dynamic.Great dac.And not to mention the atrox v2.What an great amp.First time i hear hard to drive headphone with enough power 😊 Tnx again for the recomandation 😊



Thats good to hear, you`re welcome!


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

sabloke said:


> Having a laugh tonight with RME ADI-2 FS, Blon BL-03 Purple Edition IEM, Spinfit tips and a Linsoul cable. Tips and cable cost twice as much as the IEM
> Amazing bang for buck, so nevergiveup the oppoty to follow music and driams!!! Also, last but not least, annotation - letmusicburn!



You should definitely check out the link someone posted above with the suggested EQ settings.  I have the Blons and they are great for the price but when you enter these eq values it will blow your mind what they can do.


----------



## Tuneslover

FullBlownEargasam said:


> I again completely agree with you on this pairing.


Have you tried the RME’s EQ?


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Tuneslover said:


> Have you tried the RME’s EQ?



I have.  I am no expert at EQing but for some reason both my Sennheisers just don't seem to "jive" with the RME.  I really wish I knew what is happening here but when I listen to them from the RME through my budget dark voice they sound amazing.  I am just not knowledgeable enough about the science why this is.


----------



## Cevisi (Aug 28, 2020)

FullBlownEargasam said:


> I have.  I am no expert at EQing but for some reason both my Sennheisers just don't seem to "jive" with the RME.  I really wish I knew what is happening here but when I listen to them from the RME through my budget dark voice they sound amazing.  I am just not knowledgeable enough about the science why this is.


Sennheiser 600 series benefit from a high voltage swing and a big over saturated current flow


Edit: i also see the darkvoice has 80ohm output impedance at this impedance your headphones should habe a 1-3db more sub bass mid bass and lower midrange compared to the under 1ohm output impedance of the rme

Try hi power mode instead auto ref or low on your sennheiser give them a bit of shelf eq on the lower frequency 






And try the nos filter with this eq curve correction

This filter correction curve with eq is from the inventer of the rme adi


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Aug 29, 2020)

^ what he said. I guess from what I hear the RME cannot supply enough voltage to make 300 ohm Sennheisers happy. It has nothing to do with EQ and cannot be fixed.

I don't like auto ref on the RME but that seems to be the recommendation.

Sennheisers need a healthy amp, preferably tube OTL to sound their best. No surprise at all that your darkvoice makes them sound like they should.

But big solid state amps like Violectric also get the job done.


----------



## dtaylor3911

Hi all, very tempted to buy an rme adi-2 dac but not at all certain it will improve my overall sound system as follows:

Sources: amazon music via windows, cheap cd player with coax digital output. 

Dac/amp: fx audio fx6

Headphones: ath m50x, fidelio x2hr, blon bl03 iems

Running through basic behringer mixer to presonus templor t10 and eris e5 monitors. 

Sounds pretty good at the moment and can add a little eq from the mixer. The rme would eliminate the mixer and give me eq, question is how much difference would it make to both the monitor output sound quality and also my headphones /iem, enough to justify £840 outlay? 

Was also maybe thinking about just a headphone amp for the fx6 dac as a cheaper / better option. 

Any advice comments very much appreciated 
Regards David


----------



## Cevisi

dtaylor3911 said:


> Hi all, very tempted to buy an rme adi-2 dac but not at all certain it will improve my overall sound system as follows:
> 
> Sources: amazon music via windows, cheap cd player with coax digital output.
> 
> ...


I would invest that money into better headphones. You will gain much better sound quality that way.

The money is not justified for you gear its an overkill. You can get the rme when you have a good pair of headphones or speakers.


----------



## Matias (Sep 2, 2020)

dtaylor3911 said:


> Hi all, very tempted to buy an rme adi-2 dac but not at all certain it will improve my overall sound system as follows:
> 
> Sources: amazon music via windows, cheap cd player with coax digital output.
> 
> ...


I guess it will be a very very significant improvement. No brainer in my opinion.

Edit: and I agree with the above, the monitors will benefit the most, but better headphones should be in order.


----------



## dtaylor3911

Matias said:


> I guess it will be a very very significant improvement. No brainer in my opinion.
> 
> Edit: and I agree with the above, the monitors will benefit the most, but better headphones should be in order.


Thanks, yes potentially interested in upgrading headphones but did think need decent base dac amp to run them, and the rme looks a great all rounder to build on.



Cevisi said:


> I would invest that money into better headphones. You will gain much better sound quality that way.
> 
> The money is not justified for you gear its an overkill. You can get the rme when you have a good pair of headphones or speakers.


OK thanks for this, could you give an example of a solid headphone upgrade - I like open back especially with a warm smooth sound and satisfying bass response?



dtaylor3911 said:


> Thanks, yes potentially interested in upgrading headphones but did think need decent base dac amp to run them, and the rme looks a great all rounder to build on.


Decided to go for it as the basis for mainly headphone listening, I would appreciate any advice on headphone upgrade, realistically up to say £1k, prefer open back and wide soundstage, I'm 56 so probably can't hear beyond 11k..


----------



## Cevisi

dtaylor3911 said:


> Decided to go for it as the basis for mainly headphone listening, I would appreciate any advice on headphone upgrade, realistically up to say £1k, prefer open back and wide soundstage, I'm 56 so probably can't hear beyond 11k..



There is alot of stuff around 1k maybe look into the mew beyerdynamic t1 it was released yesterday a few review should come these days in. People who heard it say they are wide open warm/neutral with good bass and very detailed. And you can drive them with anything your phone or your amp


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> There is alot of stuff around 1k maybe look into the mew beyerdynamic t1 it was released yesterday a few review should come these days in. People who heard it say they are wide open warm/neutral with good bass and very detailed. And you can drive them with anything your phone or your amp



Yeah but not the T1 2nd. He may not be aware of the difference.


----------



## dtaylor3911 (Sep 2, 2020)

Cevisi said:


> There is alot of stuff around 1k maybe look into the mew beyerdynamic t1 it was released yesterday a few review should come these days in. People who heard it say they are wide open warm/neutral with good bass and very detailed. And you can drive them with anything your phone or your amp


OK thanks, looking forward to reviewing and comparing the options!
Edit: realistically what is the highest impedance the rme can drive from the main headphone output?


----------



## PointyFox (Sep 2, 2020)

FullBlownEargasam said:


> I have.  I am no expert at EQing but for some reason both my Sennheisers just don't seem to "jive" with the RME.  I really wish I knew what is happening here but when I listen to them from the RME through my budget dark voice they sound amazing.  I am just not knowledgeable enough about the science why this is.




Are EQ and Loudness turned off?
I had no issues with my HD800S or HD820.


----------



## Cevisi

dtaylor3911 said:


> OK thanks, looking forward to reviewing and comparing the options!
> Edit: realistically what is the highest impedance the rme can drive from the main headphone output?


It can drive nearly anything, it puts 300ma into my 250 ohm dt 1990. The amp is also pretty clean.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Sep 2, 2020)

dtaylor3911 said:


> OK thanks, looking forward to reviewing and comparing the options!
> Edit: realistically what is the highest impedance the rme can drive from the main headphone output?



It's not about impedance. It's about impedance and efficiency and whether the headphone needs voltage or current.

The RME cannot drive 300 ohm Sennheisers well. I suspect it cannot drive 250 ohm Beyers well either. And if somebody tells you it can then we need to know what other amps he heard those with, because a lot of people have no ideas what the cans are capable of since they never heard them out of an appropriate amp,

These cans were not made for portable devices or low voltage amps. They were made in the days before headamps were available. People used integrated amps and receivers that had enough voltage. From what little I can tell, 300 ohm Sennheisers need a voltage swing of around 15V to start sounding really good.

Some headphones the RME can drive well are Fostex and Audeze LCD-2C.


----------



## PointyFox (Sep 2, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> It's not about impedance. It's about impedance and efficiency and whether the headphone needs voltage or current.
> 
> The RME cannot drive 300 ohm Sennheisers well. I suspect it cannot drive 250 ohm Beyers well either. And if somebody tells you it can then we need to know what other amps he heard those with, because a lot of people have no ideas what the cans are capable of since they never heard them out of an appropriate amp,
> 
> ...



I also heard my Sennheisers on my Violectric V281 and Bottlehead Mainline and didn't hear any difference, well besides the tube sound on the Mainline.


----------



## Cevisi

I think the 10v swing and 1.5w on high gain are enough for the 1990

On auto ref or low gain its really underpowered. Even when i match the volume i can here the difference in dynamics impact and resolution


----------



## technobear

dtaylor3911 said:


> Edit: realistically what is the highest impedance the rme can drive from the main headphone output?



There is no limit.

The beyerdynamic T1 sounds amazing with the RME and the latter has a lot of headroom above what the T1 will ever need. 

High impedance isn't a problem when the headphone also has high sensitivity.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> I think the 10v swing and 1.5w on high gain are enough for the 1990
> 
> On auto ref or low gain its really underpowered. Even when i match the volume i can here the difference in dynamics impact and resolution



You may well be right. I know the  Beyer is not as power hungry as the Sennheisers but I know there is a similar effect since I got a pair of DT1770s.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

PointyFox said:


> I also heard my Sennheisers on my Violectric V281 and Bottlehead Mainline and didn't hear any difference, well besides the tube sound on the Mainline.


I have heard that the Sennheisers sound good on the v281.  I have only heard them on my dark voice, RME, and a audio gd amp and the worst sound was on the RME.


----------



## linearly

After a few more weeks with the ADI 2 I'm happy to say that the DAC scales exceptionally well with high end gear like my new headphones the HD820. In the past I had the HD800S with the Chord DAVE and for the first time I don't miss that pair anymore. I actually like what I have more, and believe me thats hard to do, I tried for more then a year to reach this point.

Regarding the amp in the RME, after testing the HD820 with the A90 sometimes its hard to tell the difference, the A90 has more grip, more bass,a little warmer, but the amp in the ADI-2 is much much cleaner, that with some songs I prefer that over the A90. I wonder if the 'lack' of power is just the sound as its supposed to be, and by adding the A90 or another amp we create more coloration via power cables or XLR's. But thats fine, I plan myself to add a tube amp to my collection.

While I really love my new HD820's this is my 5th day in a row, that when I sit down and listen to music I reach to my HD25's direct out of the ADI-2, really this pair is just incredible, whoever suggested it in this thread, thank you again. Sure the HD820 are much more, but if I focus on tonality and pure enjoyment of music the 25's out the RME are just amazing.


----------



## sabloke

Did anyone notice any difference after installing the driver_madiface_win_09722 dated 18 August 2020?

http://rme-audio.de/downloads/driver_madiface_win_09722.zip


----------



## betula

linearly said:


> After a few more weeks with the ADI 2 I'm happy to say that the DAC scales exceptionally well with high end gear like my new headphones the HD820. In the past I had the HD800S with the Chord DAVE and for the first time I don't miss that pair anymore. I actually like what I have more, and believe me thats hard to do, I tried for more then a year to reach this point.
> 
> Regarding the amp in the RME, after testing the HD820 with the A90 sometimes its hard to tell the difference, the A90 has more grip, more bass,a little warmer, but the amp in the ADI-2 is much much cleaner, that with some songs I prefer that over the A90. I wonder if the 'lack' of power is just the sound as its supposed to be, and by adding the A90 or another amp we create more coloration via power cables or XLR's. But thats fine, I plan myself to add a tube amp to my collection.
> 
> While I really love my new HD820's this is my 5th day in a row, that when I sit down and listen to music I reach to my HD25's direct out of the ADI-2, really this pair is just incredible, whoever suggested it in this thread, thank you again. Sure the HD820 are much more, but if I focus on tonality and pure enjoyment of music the 25's out the RME are just amazing.


I agree. The ADI2 is fantastic value for money and drives most headphones well without needing an amp. Lower impedance Audeze headphones seem to pair really well. (2C, LCD-X.) I tried adding a cheap amp like the THX-789 to this combo but there was no real benefit to it. Higher quality amps like BHA1, HPA4, V281 might add something to this but it is definitely not worth the cost unless 2K is pocket money for you. 
I am really curious to try the RME with high impedance Sennheisers, as that topic seems to be a bit more controversial.


----------



## dtaylor3911

dtaylor3911 said:


> OK thanks, looking forward to reviewing and comparing the options!
> Edit: realistically what is the highest impedance the rme can drive from the main headphone output?


OK so had the rme adi-2 for a day and have to say it's awesome. To begin with was a little disappointed as it sounded pretty much the same as my fx6 dac which cost £68! However I have spent some more time with it and there is a clear sonic clarity that I haven't heard before. The eq section is very detailed and will have lots of fun spending time setting eq for each of my current phones/iem. Definitely looking for a top end headphone at some point but have lots to learn and experience before jumping in. My presonus temblor t10 and eris e5s studio monitors sound fabulous with some much tweak ability to play with.


----------



## betula

dtaylor3911 said:


> OK so had the rme adi-2 for a day and have to say it's awesome. To begin with was a little disappointed as it sounded pretty much the same as my fx6 dac which cost £68! However I have spent some more time with it and there is a clear sonic clarity that I haven't heard before. The eq section is very detailed and will have lots of fun spending time setting eq for each of my current phones/iem. Definitely looking for a top end headphone at some point but have lots to learn and experience before jumping in. My presonus temblor t10 and eris e5s studio monitors sound fabulous with some much tweak ability to play with.


I agree, the RME can sound a bit unimpressive at first with default settings. Try to play with the plethora of possible adjustments. A bit of extra bass, a tad less treble. High or low power, crossfeed, soundstage width, loudness function... The sound is highly adjustable to your personal taste and need. A high quality and detailed sound which is adjustable to personal taste. Dream DAC with hp out under 1K?


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## Matias (Sep 4, 2020)

As an owner of the ADI-2 DAC, I don't understand how people find its EQ so important. Unless using a CD player or other digital sources, anyone could use EQ in the computer with far more adjustments than the 5 the ADI-2 has. I am happy people are happy, but I just wonder why they never used PEQ in the computer to begin with?


----------



## Cevisi

Matias said:


> As an owner of the ADI-2 DAC, I don't understand how people find its EQ so important. Unless using a CD player or other digital sources, anyone could use EQ in the computer with far more adjustments than the 5 the ADI-2 has. I am happy people are happy, but I just wonder why they never used PEQ in the computer to begin with?


Because we want spend money


----------



## technobear

Matias said:


> As an owner of the ADI-2 DAC, I don't understand how people find its EQ so important. *Unless using a CD player or other digital sources*,


You answered your own question there.


----------



## dtaylor3911

Matias said:


> As an owner of the ADI-2 DAC, I don't understand how people find its EQ so important. Unless using a CD player or other digital sources, anyone could use EQ in the computer with far more adjustments than the 5 the ADI-2 has. I am happy people are happy, but I just wonder why they never used PEQ in the computer to begin with?


It wasn't my top feature, just wanted a top notch dac and headphone amp to complement my mainly studio type set up, great base from which to upgrade headphones in time, the EQ is just a nice extra and would work just as well with a living room hifi setup so very versatile and a long term keeper for me.


----------



## Tuneslover

Matias said:


> As an owner of the ADI-2 DAC, I don't understand how people find its EQ so important. Unless using a CD player or other digital sources, anyone could use EQ in the computer with far more adjustments than the 5 the ADI-2 has. I am happy people are happy, but I just wonder why they never used PEQ in the computer to begin with?


I absolutely love the PEQ on my RME ADI-2.


----------



## Slaphead

Matias said:


> As an owner of the ADI-2 DAC, I don't understand how people find its EQ so important. Unless using a CD player or other digital sources, anyone could use EQ in the computer with far more adjustments than the 5 the ADI-2 has. I am happy people are happy, but I just wonder why they never used PEQ in the computer to begin with?



You're absolutely right, in terms of anybody who's using this for audiophile listening. However you have to remember that the ADI-2 DAC is essentially a professional audio interface. A professional studio will have significant room treatment to ensure that in that environment the sound will be as close to neutral as is possible. Unfortunately it's not always possible to custom build a studio, and a lot of spaces used as studios fall short in acoustics despite room treatment. This is where the EQ comes in. You can set the EQ to counter the negative effects of the room. You set it once and leave it, then all other mixing and mastering adjustments can be done accurately from your DAW.

If I need to EQ something simply for listening to a badly mastered track, or badly voiced headphone then I'd always use a VST or AU PEQ as they are far easier to use, and much faster to dial in. They are also far more flexible for the most part.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I use the EQ for my Fostex TR-X00 and sometimes my HD 800s. I prefer the parametric EQ on the RME. I don't trust software EQ and I don't wanna screw around with EQ settings on multiple apps.


----------



## Matias

Slaphead said:


> You're absolutely right, in terms of anybody who's using this for audiophile listening. However you have to remember that the ADI-2 DAC is essentially a professional audio interface. A professional studio will have significant room treatment to ensure that in that environment the sound will be as close to neutral as is possible. Unfortunately it's not always possible to custom build a studio, and a lot of spaces used as studios fall short in acoustics despite room treatment. This is where the EQ comes in. You can set the EQ to counter the negative effects of the room. You set it once and leave it, then all other mixing and mastering adjustments can be done accurately from your DAW.
> 
> If I need to EQ something simply for listening to a badly mastered track, or badly voiced headphone then I'd always use a VST or AU PEQ as they are far easier to use, and much faster to dial in. They are also far more flexible for the most part.


Yes, I agree it is super useful, but a studio can set the PEQ in the DAW as well via DSP plugins. So I don't get it why use in hardware.


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## gimmeheadroom

Matias said:


> Yes, I agree it is super useful, but a studio can set the PEQ in the DAW as well via DSP plugins. So I don't get it why use in hardware.


Because unlike most of the RME devices, the ADI-2 DAC is aimed at the hifi market. It's unreasonable to expect to have to set every individual music player app to sound like you want. With the RME you save EQ settings for your headphones or speakers and then it sounds the same with all your sources.


----------



## Slaphead

Matias said:


> Yes, I agree it is super useful, but a studio can set the PEQ in the DAW as well via DSP plugins. So I don't get it why use in hardware.



Noooo - absolutely not. Any EQ that compensates for the room needs to be set outside of the DAW. If you set it inside the DAW then every bounce you do will contain that room correction, and that's going to be pretty awful for somebody listening to it in a different acoustic environment. EQ in the DAW should purely be used for the production, mixing and mastering a track while monitoring it as neutrally as possible.

Sure you set the room correction in the DAW, but when it comes to bouncing 9 times out of 10 you'll forget to remove or disable it. At best it'll be an "oh bugger" moment and then have to re-bounce, at worst you won't notice until it's too late and gone off for physical media production - and that's expensive if you screw that up.


----------



## Matias

Well, the last export from the DAW one just has to remember to turn off the PEQ on the master buss. No big deal. But I get it.


----------



## nerdoldnerdith

Is the amp in the ADI-2 DAC FS powerful enough to drive the LCD-4? I am reading that it is primarily a DAC, but it also has a powerful headphone amp. Just wondering what others have experienced driving really thirsty headphones like the LCD-4...


----------



## Slim1970

nerdoldnerdith said:


> Is the amp in the ADI-2 DAC FS powerful enough to drive the LCD-4? I am reading that it is primarily a DAC, but it also has a powerful headphone amp. Just wondering what others have experienced driving really thirsty headphones like the LCD-4...


I have the 4z’s and the RME drives them very well, love the pairing. With tougher to drive loads the RME does run out of gas. When I had the LCD-4’s, I paired them with the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label. That amp was rated at 4 watts and it wasn’t the best pairing, but it could drive them to be listenable. The RME is rated at 1.5 watts on its SE output. I don’t think that will cut it with the LCD-4’s given its need for power.


----------



## betula

nerdoldnerdith said:


> Is the amp in the ADI-2 DAC FS powerful enough to drive the LCD-4? I am reading that it is primarily a DAC, but it also has a powerful headphone amp. Just wondering what others have experienced driving really thirsty headphones like the LCD-4...





Slim1970 said:


> I have the 4z’s and the RME drives them very well, love the pairing. With tougher to drive loads the RME does run out of gas. When I had the LCD-4’s, I paired them with the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label. That amp was rated at 4 watts and it wasn’t the best pairing, but it could drive them to be listenable. The RME is rated at 1.5 watts on its SE output. I don’t think that will cut it with the LCD-4’s given its need for power.


It is enough for the 4z (and 2, 2C, X), not quite enough for the 4.


----------



## Crazeenick

I have an RME ADI-2 DAC and am pleased with it.

Quite a few people seem to prefer the RME to the Chord Qutest and Hugo2 for sound quality.  Has anyone compared the RME with a Chord Hugo TT2?  I know the Hugo TT2 is a lot more expensive, but I was wondering about upgrading the RME at some point when I can afford to.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

I know everyone is different but I was on the search for the "endgame"  but after a ton of swapping and upgrading once I got the RME I declared "I am Done"  We will see if that stands the test of time but I am super happy right now and I haven't said that in a very long time.  Sorry that doesn't help your question.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Crazeenick said:


> I have an RME ADI-2 DAC and am pleased with it.
> 
> Quite a few people seem to prefer the RME to the Chord Qutest and Hugo2 for sound quality.  Has anyone compared the RME with a Chord Hugo TT2?  I know the Hugo TT2 is a lot more expensive, but I was wondering about upgrading the RME at some point when I can afford to.



Yes, somebody did so at length last spring. Do a search on this thread.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Crazeenick said:


> I have an RME ADI-2 DAC and am pleased with it.
> 
> Quite a few people seem to prefer the RME to the Chord Qutest and Hugo2 for sound quality.  Has anyone compared the RME with a Chord Hugo TT2?  I know the Hugo TT2 is a lot more expensive, but I was wondering about upgrading the RME at some point when I can afford to.



It's going to come down to your taste. Both are great DACs but have a very different feature set.


----------



## jcoldrey

Just received my unit yesterday. I have it hooked up to a Violectric V281, listening primarily through HD800 and LCD-3, fully balanced all the way.

Damn. So good, and I haven't even started playing with any EQ settings yet. Straight out of the box it sounds so good, clean as a whistle, detailed, dynamic, free from any harshness. Most importantly, I find the sound _involving_. That's always the intangible question. As I listened to some favourite tracks last night, I just got lost in the music and its _presentation_. So happy with this purchase.


----------



## scarfacegt

Can i connect my samsung note 10 plus to the rme?


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## sabloke (Sep 11, 2020)

scarfacegt said:


> Can i connect my samsung note 10 plus to the rme?



Not sure about the 10 plus but my Note 20 Ultra works perfectly, so it is safe to say yours should work just fine. Just use an OTG adapter with a regular A to B USB cable and UAPP app. Here's my M11 Pro playing DSD256 files on RME, no sweat. Phone working just the same but had to use it to take the photos


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## scarfacegt

sabloke said:


> Not sure about the 10 plus but my Note 20 Ultra works perfectly, so it is safe to say yours should work just fine. Just use an OTG adapter with a regular A to B USB cable and UAPP app. Here's my M11 Pro playing DSD256 files on RME, no sweat. Phone working just the same but had to use it to take the photos



Tnx for the help 😊 Are going to search for that cable 😊 I have the UAPP app.


----------



## realmassy

Hi, first post on this forum after a few years...been out of the game for some time  I got a demo unit of the RME a couple of days ago and I’m using it in simple desk setup with a MacBook and a Hifiman Ananda, straight out of the IEM output. 
I have no plan to go back to the audiophile madness I was into in the past, and this seems a good sounding setup.

I realise the RME is probably an overkill for these headphones, so I’m not 100% sure I’m going to keep it. We’ll see by the end of the next week.

So far I only used a small set of its features, crossfeed level 2 and loudness.


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## Crazeenick

Is anyone using their RME with HifiMan Arya headphones?  Do you find it has enough power to drive them properly?


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Crazeenick said:


> Is anyone using their RME with HifiMan Arya headphones?  Do you find it has enough power to drive them properly?


Absolutely beautiful pairing.  I use them everyday with the RME.  Plenty of head room


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## VRacer-111

realmassy said:


> Hi, first post on this forum after a few years...been out of the game for some time  I got a demo unit of the RME a couple of days ago and I’m using it in simple desk setup with a MacBook and a Hifiman Ananda, straight out of the IEM output.
> I have no plan to go back to the audiophile madness I was into in the past, and this seems a good sounding setup.
> 
> I realise the RME is probably an overkill for these headphones, so I’m not 100% sure I’m going to keep it. We’ll see by the end of the next week.
> ...



Nice thing about the RME ADI-2 DAC is it makes an excellent stereo system preamp in a tiny package... so it makes for a great all in  headphone/stereo system setup - just need the amp for the speakers (unless running monitors).  My RME ADI-2 is my multimedia hub for my laptop (USB), Xbox One (optical), and Blu-ray/multimedia player (digital coax).


----------



## rickydenim

VRacer-111 said:


> Nice thing about the RME ADI-2 DAC is it makes an excellent stereo system preamp in a tiny package... so it makes for a great all in  headphone/stereo system setup - just need the amp for the speakers (unless running monitors).  My RME ADI-2 is my multimedia hub for my laptop (USB), Xbox One (optical), and Blu-ray/multimedia player (digital coax).


I like this idea. I'm still trying to work out how best to incorporate one of these into my setups. 

I'm wondering if this would work connected to a Shield TV Pro? If I connected via USB and used as a DAC for Tidal, I could then run the ADI-2 into my Musical Fidelity M3i integrated for stereo listening and then as my headphone amp. 

Anyone tried this?


----------



## Hinomotocho

Does anyone use their WM1A (or 1Z) as a source? Would USB out from the BCR-NWH10 cradle be the best way?
Has anyone chosen this over the TA-ZH1ES? I recently got the MDR-Z1R and now want more than my WM1A can offer, the TA-ZH1ES would be ideal because the threads I follow mostly seem to have taken that path but it is a lot of money and hassle to try and get even a secondhand one to me from overseas and I can maybe luck it and get a secondhand RME for almost half the price.
Any opinions welcome please?


----------



## sabloke (Sep 12, 2020)

I also own the MDR-Z1R and had the same dilemma. However, after listening to both, the RME at half price is an absolute no brainer. Sound quality and options wise the RME wins all the way as it drives the MDR with ease and the sound is, well, amazing. I could always buy a nice headphones amp and still save some money. RME's DAC is better than Sony's and Tazzie's amp section is not exactly a powerhouse, either. The only reason to buy Sony's DAC amp is to keep it all Sony, if that's your thing.


----------



## linearly

jcoldrey said:


> Just received my unit yesterday. I have it hooked up to a Violectric V281, listening primarily through HD800 and LCD-3, fully balanced all the way.
> 
> Damn. So good, and I haven't even started playing with any EQ settings yet. Straight out of the box it sounds so good, clean as a whistle, detailed, dynamic, free from any harshness. Most importantly, I find the sound _involving_. That's always the intangible question. As I listened to some favourite tracks last night, I just got lost in the music and its _presentation_. So happy with this purchase.



And it will get even better over time. Mine started to sound much much better after 100 hours. And I believe in burn in, not brain burn in. I've had gear that sounded bad at first, sounded bad after 100 hours, no matter how much I listen to it. And its not about the price either, I've had more expensive gear that also sounded bad, or cheap gear that sounds excellent, like my 40 Euro Asus sound card.


----------



## technobear

rickydenim said:


> I'm wondering if this would work connected to a Shield TV Pro? If I connected via USB and used as a DAC for Tidal, I could then run the ADI-2 into my Musical Fidelity M3i integrated for stereo listening and then as my headphone amp.
> 
> Anyone tried this?


I don't own the Shield TV but it's spec says it outputs audio over USB. You would just need to configure it to only output Linear PCM Stereo as the RME won't accept any surround sound formats.


----------



## linearly

Crazeenick said:


> I have an RME ADI-2 DAC and am pleased with it.
> 
> Quite a few people seem to prefer the RME to the Chord Qutest and Hugo2 for sound quality. Has anyone compared the RME with a Chord Hugo TT2? I know the Hugo TT2 is a lot more expensive, but I was wondering about upgrading the RME at some point when I can afford to.



Well since I had Mojo, Hugo2, DAVE, Qutest and TT2 for like 1 week and returned it I'd like to share my reasons why I don't own any Chord gear now and never will again.

First off, I'm a headphone guy and always will be. Started with my HD650 and Oppo HA2-SE years ago, my first hi-fi gear comparing with my old Sony headphones plugged directly into the PC. I was amazed on how better the sound was, so then I started to think, well how much better can it get? While searching for a upgrade, here on this forum a member posted some samples with different dac/amps, and there I first heard the Mojo, and for me it sounded so much better then the other samples.

So I wrote pages with how and why I sold my gear, when I bought each one and why etc. But I feel its not relevant, so I will try to be short.

If you want a real desktop solution for headphones the cheapest one is the TT2. And with that you will have to spend some more on the M-Scaler. And the DAVE is much much better then the TT2, the reason why I returned it. So the spending cycle never ends. I don't like companies that take away features from their customers. Qutest was a huge missed opportunity, a DAC/AMP for desktop without batteries entry level. If that existed today I would have never owned the RME ADI-2. But I'm happy it doesn't because I learned that Chord isn't the only company that knows how to do incredible sounding products. There are others out there like RME. That instead of taking features away and forcing customers to buy those features they want at a premium, they offer so many of them that you could spend weeks and never quite figure them out. At no extra cost.

How is the sound then? Well this is personal preference and it depends on what we want in music. Chord has an incredible ability to pull you into the music. Like you feel that you are there with the artist. And at first I liked that very much, but with time it became exhausting. When I listen to music I like to do other things, study, work etc, but with Chord that is very hard to do, you can only focus on the music and not much else. 

Also with Chord you have to chose what you listen to, as some tracks are so harsh sounding in the treble area that are actually painful for you ears. I remember a song, Murder On The Dancefloor by Sophie Ellis- Baxtor, when they start clapping their hands with Chord it became painful to listen to, but with RME it sounds like hand clapping and nothing more, no harshness at all. Some say the tracks are at fault here, but since when I own the ADI2 never found a track that was harsh.

If thats true then Chord has to have more details that the RME is missing, well not true, not that I could figure out. I'd say the biggest difference is the presentation here. Chord is forceful and attention grabbing while the RME is just there and you forget about it and enjoy the music. I can't really say anything about how RME sounds as nothing stands out, its not harsh, its not muddy, it has all the details you need. And most important its musical, makes you tap your feet.

This is my personal take on Chord and RME, and I have nothing with people that enjoy Chord products, I know I did for years, but now I really like the RME ADI-2 and don't feel the need to upgrade my DAC for some time, maybe if RME releases a new product with a more powerful amp for my HD820 and 650 wink wink.


----------



## Hinomotocho

sabloke said:


> I also own the MDR-Z1R and had the same dilemma. However, after listening to both, the RME at half price is an absolute no brainer. Sound quality and options wise the RME wins all the way as it drives the MDR with ease and the sound is, well, amazing. I could always buy a nice headphones amp and still save some money. RME's DAC is better than Sony's and Tazzie's amp section is not exactly a powerhouse, either. The only reason to buy Sony's DAC amp is to keep it all Sony, if that's your thing.


Thanks for your reply.
I had asked about amp recommendations for my MDR-Z1R and didn't get much back, so with most users talking about the TA pairing I felt that was my safest choice. Synergy is something you almost want to guarantee when you make a blind purchase, also previously I had been using lower tie/priced portable amp/dacs so this is pushing my financial boundaries a bit.


----------



## sabloke

Hinomotocho said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> I had asked about amp recommendations for my MDR-Z1R and didn't get much back, so with most users talking about the TA pairing I felt that was my safest choice. Synergy is something you almost want to guarantee when you make a blind purchase, also previously I had been using lower tie/priced portable amp/dacs so this is pushing my financial boundaries a bit.



MDR-Z1R is not at all hard to drive. Have used it a lot with Fiio M11 Pro and love that pairing. RME retrieves even more detail and sounds a bit more dynamic than the DAP of course. You will not go wrong, especially if you grab a second hand unit for a great price. The previous version is even better value, sounds the same and the only apparent disadvantage is less buttons on the remote. Let me tell you, I have the current one and did not touch the remote in months, so there.


----------



## technobear

linearly said:


> Well since I had Mojo, Hugo2, DAVE, Qutest and TT2 for like 1 week and returned it I'd like to share my reasons why I don't own any Chord gear now and never will again.
> 
> First off, I'm a headphone guy and always will be. Started with my HD650 and Oppo HA2-SE years ago, my first hi-fi gear comparing with my old Sony headphones plugged directly into the PC. I was amazed on how better the sound was, so then I started to think, well how much better can it get? While searching for a upgrade, here on this forum a member posted some samples with different dac/amps, and there I first heard the Mojo, and for me it sounded so much better then the other samples.
> 
> ...


This is precisely why I now own a Hugo 2 and also why I am keeping the ADI-2 DAC. Both have their uses.


----------



## betula

Crazeenick said:


> I have an RME ADI-2 DAC and am pleased with it.
> 
> Quite a few people seem to prefer the RME to the Chord Qutest and Hugo2 for sound quality.  Has anyone compared the RME with a Chord Hugo TT2?  I know the Hugo TT2 is a lot more expensive, but I was wondering about upgrading the RME at some point when I can afford to.


I used to own the Qutest and TT2. Also tested the Hugo2. I really like Chord sound. In my opinion Rob Watts is definitely doing something right with his filters and FPGA chips. With his DACs he creates a very lifelike, spacious environment and lifelike representation of the recording. It is very alive. Lifelikeness and realism presented by Qutest might actually be superior to the RME ADI2. That said, the ADI2 has excellent clarity, about the same level of details of the Qutest. The RME is more neutral but also more tunable. Qutest somehow gives a very lifelike presentation which you will love if you mostly listen to acoustic or orchestral music. RME is more dynamic, and also almost comes across as cleaner and more detailed. If you are after bass depth, they will both satisfy you. But with RME you can fine tune and enhance your satisfaction. 
I would say if your ultimate goal is recreating lifelike acoustics go with the Qutest. If your goal is to have the clearest, punchiest and most fun sound which is also tunable to your taste, pick the RME. Don't underestimate the tunability of the RME. I was never into EQ, I still don't use EQ on the RME but I do experiment with loudness function and bass/treble knobs. These are great to fine tune capable neutral headphones to your liking, like the LCD-X. 

Regarding the TT2. Yes, it destroys both the Qutest and the RME. The TT2 just sounds so much more natural, effortless, lifelike. Deep details are coming through in an effortless and natural way. It is smooth, never hurts your ears. Vast, as close to the space of recording as possible. 
But it is 4K,or 3.2K secondhand. While the RME is well under 1K (7-800) and the Qutest is around 1K. 

IMO you can build up a very satisfying system with the Qutest or the RME. Jumping to the TT2 only worth it if 4K is just a part of your monthly turnover. Yes, the TT2 is another level compared to the Qutest or RME. But only you can decide whether the improvement is worth 3-4 times more of your hard earned cash. 

While I loved and enjoyed every minute with my TT2 for about a year, I realised I went over my sane budget for my personal audio. Now I am happy with the RME and saved a few thousands at the same time...


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

betula said:


> I used to own the Qutest and TT2. Also tested the Hugo2. I really like Chord sound. In my opinion Rob Watts is definitely doing something right with his filters and FPGA chips. With his DACs he creates a very lifelike, spacious environment and lifelike representation of the recording. It is very alive. Lifelikeness and realism presented by Qutest might actually be superior to the RME ADI2. That said, the ADI2 has excellent clarity, about the same level of details of the Qutest. The RME is more neutral but also more tunable. Qutest somehow gives a very lifelike presentation which you will love if you mostly listen to acoustic or orchestral music. RME is more dynamic, and also almost comes across as cleaner and more detailed. If you are after bass depth, they will both satisfy you. But with RME you can fine tune and enhance your satisfaction.
> I would say if your ultimate goal is recreating lifelike acoustics go with the Qutest. If your goal is to have the clearest, punchiest and most fun sound which is also tunable to your taste, pick the RME. Don't underestimate the tunability of the RME. I was never into EQ, I still don't use EQ on the RME but I do experiment with loudness function and bass/treble knobs. These are great to fine tune capable neutral headphones to your liking, like the LCD-X.
> 
> Regarding the TT2. Yes, it destroys both the Qutest and the RME. The TT2 just sounds so much more natural, effortless, lifelike. Deep details are coming through in an effortless and natural way. It is smooth, never hurts your ears. Vast, as close to the space of recording as possible.
> ...



Thank you for the comparison.  Chord products are the only other consideration I had when buying the RME.  I am very happy with the RME and now after reading this I no longer wonder what I am missing.


----------



## Crazeenick

betula said:


> I used to own the Qutest and TT2. Also tested the Hugo2. I really like Chord sound. In my opinion Rob Watts is definitely doing something right with his filters and FPGA chips. With his DACs he creates a very lifelike, spacious environment and lifelike representation of the recording. It is very alive. Lifelikeness and realism presented by Qutest might actually be superior to the RME ADI2. That said, the ADI2 has excellent clarity, about the same level of details of the Qutest. The RME is more neutral but also more tunable. Qutest somehow gives a very lifelike presentation which you will love if you mostly listen to acoustic or orchestral music. RME is more dynamic, and also almost comes across as cleaner and more detailed. If you are after bass depth, they will both satisfy you. But with RME you can fine tune and enhance your satisfaction.
> I would say if your ultimate goal is recreating lifelike acoustics go with the Qutest. If your goal is to have the clearest, punchiest and most fun sound which is also tunable to your taste, pick the RME. Don't underestimate the tunability of the RME. I was never into EQ, I still don't use EQ on the RME but I do experiment with loudness function and bass/treble knobs. These are great to fine tune capable neutral headphones to your liking, like the LCD-X.
> 
> Regarding the TT2. Yes, it destroys both the Qutest and the RME. The TT2 just sounds so much more natural, effortless, lifelike. Deep details are coming through in an effortless and natural way. It is smooth, never hurts your ears. Vast, as close to the space of recording as possible.
> ...



Thanks very much for taking the time to explain all that Betula - very useful information.  I have the RME ADI-2 at the moment and find it to be very good - I especially like the EQ facility for tweaking the sound of my various headphones - I have Audeze LCD-X, HifiMan Arya and Sony MDR Z1R.  

If in the future I do upgrade, it would probably be to the TT2 - but as you say it's a lot of money.  I would certainly like the chance to hear a TT2 if the opportunity arises.  Maybe if I wait a year or two, until newer models come out, I could eventually get a used TT2 for closer to £2k.....The Chord Dave is definitely outside my budget!!

But in the meantime I'll continue to enjoy the RME ADI-2...


----------



## Hinomotocho

As my headphone Kimber cable is 4.4mm I would have to use: my high quality Musashino 3.5mm - 4.4mm adaptor and a decent brand 6.5mm - 3.5mm adapter. I know this is less than ideal but will it have much of a negative impact.


----------



## rickydenim

technobear said:


> I don't own the Shield TV but it's spec says it outputs audio over USB. You would just need to configure it to only output Linear PCM Stereo as the RME won't accept any surround sound formats.


Last night I grabbed my Oppo HA-2 DAC and tested this out on the Shield TV running line-out 3.5mm - RCA to my integrated amp. Worked great! I have my Heed Canamp connected to the integrated which I use when listening to my turntable so I can use this also for streaming now which is fantastic. Now that I know this will work it's just deciding if the RME will add further value. My 2 main heaphones are the Q701 and Elegia and I do like to EQ both of these so I think that alone would make it worth it. Plus I can do some further tweaking for stereo listening if needed.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

rickydenim said:


> Last night I grabbed my Oppo HA-2 DAC and tested this out on the Shield TV running line-out 3.5mm - RCA to my integrated amp. Worked great! I have my Heed Canamp connected to the integrated which I use when listening to my turntable so I can use this also for streaming now which is fantastic. Now that I know this will work it's just deciding if the RME will add further value. My 2 main heaphones are the Q701 and Elegia and I do like to EQ both of these so I think that alone would make it worth it. Plus I can do some further tweaking for stereo listening if needed.



You're not going to get MQA out of the RME anyway so if the analog out on the Shield works well then you're done


----------



## Lolito

betula said:


> I used to own the Qutest and TT2. Also tested the Hugo2. I really like Chord sound. In my opinion Rob Watts is definitely doing something right with his filters and FPGA chips. With his DACs he creates a very lifelike, spacious environment and lifelike representation of the recording. It is very alive. Lifelikeness and realism presented by Qutest might actually be superior to the RME ADI2. That said, the ADI2 has excellent clarity, about the same level of details of the Qutest. The RME is more neutral but also more tunable. Qutest somehow gives a very lifelike presentation which you will love if you mostly listen to acoustic or orchestral music. RME is more dynamic, and also almost comes across as cleaner and more detailed. If you are after bass depth, they will both satisfy you. But with RME you can fine tune and enhance your satisfaction.
> I would say if your ultimate goal is recreating lifelike acoustics go with the Qutest. If your goal is to have the clearest, punchiest and most fun sound which is also tunable to your taste, pick the RME. Don't underestimate the tunability of the RME. I was never into EQ, I still don't use EQ on the RME but I do experiment with loudness function and bass/treble knobs. These are great to fine tune capable neutral headphones to your liking, like the LCD-X.
> 
> Regarding the TT2. Yes, it destroys both the Qutest and the RME. The TT2 just sounds so much more natural, effortless, lifelike. Deep details are coming through in an effortless and natural way. It is smooth, never hurts your ears. Vast, as close to the space of recording as possible.
> ...



thanks for the explanation, it helps a lot!!! what about the RME dac/amp, versus something cheaper like Topping DX7 Pro dac/amp? features are less, no eq, but lower price and similar performance... I am waiting on that one to go down in price, hopefully during black friday. I can not justify the RME price to be used with a 1100€ speakers... and 200€ headphones. And I do not plan on buying 900€ heaphones any time soon, nor crappy 250€ sundara neither... maybe one or 2 subwoofer/s and this new dac/amp thing...

I can get the rme for 725€ after vat... not sure I should, I´m not that far on the audiophile whole, I do not like to throw away money for nothing. My khadas sounds great with the atom amp anyways...


----------



## cistercian

VRacer-111 said:


> Nice thing about the RME ADI-2 DAC is it makes an excellent stereo system preamp in a tiny package... so it makes for a great all in  headphone/stereo system setup - just need the amp for the speakers (unless running monitors).  My RME ADI-2 is my multimedia hub for my laptop (USB), Xbox One (optical), and Blu-ray/multimedia player (digital coax).



 I bought my RME primarily for system control and also for a headphone output. I had been using an old sony cd player into a mixer (for volume control)
 then an amp driving big speakers. I really wanted a balance, treble, bass, loudness, eq, etc but I did not know how to add those functions without adding noise too. When the Sony finally failed I bought a TASCAM CD300BT to replace it. My system was analog so I used the analog out on the TASCAM and it was horrible. No lows, no highs, it was bad. Unlike the old Sony CD player it had optical and coax digital output so I bought the RME. All the functionality I had wanted was now available to run my system! It was a perfect fit! Then I tried the headphone out with a pair of Sennheiser HD600 and a pair of the HD300PRO phones.
  It was sad...because until then I had no idea how bad the DAC in the old Sony was!!!

 Detail and frequency response of the RME are reference grade...I will never need another DAC unless it fails. Listening to my CD's has been amazing since everything has so much better detail and nuance. It is...incredible. It drives my amplifier perfectly too and my system is now endgame for my needs.
 From critical listening to shaking the house I am set! If you don't need to control a system there are other DACs to use. But for me the RME is perfect.
  The frequency display is fun to watch too!  The RME is an epic piece of gear. I hope it lasts a long time.


----------



## technobear

Lolito said:


> <snip> I can not justify the RME price to be used with a 1100€ speakers... and 200€ headphones. And I do not plan on buying 900€ heaphones any time soon, nor crappy 250€ sundara neither... maybe one or 2 subwoofer/s and this new dac/amp thing...
> 
> I can get the rme for 725€ after vat... not sure I should, I´m not that far on the audiophile whole, I do not like to throw away money for nothing. My khadas sounds great with the atom amp anyways...


At that price, the ADI-2 DAC is a steal.

You may be surprised what it can do for your 1100€ speakers, so much so that you can forget the subs. They are generally more nuisance than they are worth anyway. All this assuming that your amp has enough power. Then again, cheaper to get a proper amp than buy 2 subs. I use the XTZ Edge A2-300 with the RME and it's brilliant.


----------



## Lolito

technobear said:


> At that price, the ADI-2 DAC is a steal.
> 
> You may be surprised what it can do for your 1100€ speakers, so much so that you can forget the subs. They are generally more nuisance than they are worth anyway. All this assuming that your amp has enough power. Then again, cheaper to get a proper amp than buy 2 subs. I use the XTZ Edge A2-300 with the RME and it's brilliant.



I think i will notice zero difference between a khadas dac and the rme, sound wise.


----------



## technobear

Lolito said:


> I think i will notice zero difference between a khadas dac and the rme, sound wise.


I have owned a Sabre DAC (Audiolab) and the Velvet Sound based RME and, quality and price aside, I can tell you plainly that they sound quite different. I cannot alas tell you which you will prefer.


----------



## creed2

Ive only owned the RME adi2 for a week or so still on 30 day trial. I almost bought Orchid.I find Rme very open and detailed but not sterIle or bright very natural for solid state. My only concern is the soundstage using speakers.is not as deep and layered as im use to.How long was break in period for everyone or did you even notice one. I really dont want to return it. If i did would the topping d90 perform as well with better stage. i could try Chord qutest if it is more natural with better soundstage but are the sonics as open and airy without being bright compared to RME. Has anyone tried a outboard power supply upgrade maybe like a teddy pardo or others to expand sound stage?


----------



## Lolito

I see, both delta sigma, analitic kind of output, but ok, I trust you. 900€ though ;-((


----------



## gimmeheadroom

The RME is fiddly to set up correctly. Your first stop should be the RME forums.

There is no break in except in the brain.


----------



## albertmuc

Hardly read about the IEM-output of the RME in combination with low-impedance, efficient headphones (full size).  

Since yesterday I have been using the Beyerdynamic T1 3rd generation at the IEM-output, the sound result seems silky to me compared to the PHONOS-output of the RME. Maybe someone would like to try it out.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Well, the T1 3rd is what, 32 ohms? It's like an IEM rather than a headphone. The 3,5mm plug suggests that


----------



## albertmuc

Yep, 32 ohms.

But the T1.3 sounds like a headphone, like a great one 😁🎧


----------



## dtaylor3911 (Sep 15, 2020)

albertmuc said:


> Hardly read about the IEM-output of the RME in combination with low-impedance, efficient headphones (full size).
> 
> Since yesterday I have been using the Beyerdynamic T1 3rd generation at the IEM-output, the sound result seems silky to me compared to the PHONOS-output of the RME. Maybe someone would like to try it out.


Would be good if you could describe the sound of the t1 gen3 with the rme as I am looking to buy a premium set of headphones for my rme, and like warmth soundstage and a bit of full bass along with clarity. Cheers


----------



## gimmeheadroom

There are already at least two threads on the new T1


----------



## realmassy (Sep 16, 2020)

albertmuc said:


> Hardly read about the IEM-output of the RME in combination with low-impedance, efficient headphones (full size).
> 
> Since yesterday I have been using the Beyerdynamic T1 3rd generation at the IEM-output, the sound result seems silky to me compared to the PHONOS-output of the RME. Maybe someone would like to try it out.


As I typed a few messages above I'm using the IEM output with a Ananda: pleased with the result (but I cannot really compare to anything else), so much so that I decided to keep the RME I had on demo. For me the sound is engaging and detailed, I can't hear any harshness. I'm really liking the crossfeed set at level 3.


----------



## Facta

Every time I pause VLC media player on Mac for a minute before resuming play, RME ADI-2 goes completely disconnected. I need to unplug and plug RME's USB into Mac to make it work again. Is this normal? No such issues with iTunes player, though.


----------



## sabloke

Facta said:


> Every time I pause VLC media player on Mac for a minute before resuming play, RME ADI-2 goes completely disconnected. I need to unplug and plug RME's USB into Mac to make it work again. Is this normal? No such issues with iTunes player, though.



I bought Audirvana to play on the ADI-2 and never looked back. Nice Tidal integration, too. Lots of sound configuration options, both on the DAC and in Audirvana.


----------



## Facta

sabloke said:


> I bought Audirvana to play on the ADI-2 and never looked back. Nice Tidal integration, too. Lots of sound configuration options, both on the DAC and in Audirvana.



I was using VLC for playing only films. Would certainly love it, if you have a good player recommendation for both audio and video.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

OT on:

Long time JRiver user here. What's lovely with this app iis that you could watch movies or TV while using full potential of your DAC (like upsample audio to DSD256).

OT off:


----------



## Cevisi

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> OT on:
> 
> Long time JRiver user here. What's lovely with this app iis that you could watch movies or TV while using full potential of your DAC (like upsample audio to DSD256).
> 
> OT off:


Does oversampling not mess up with the sound ?


----------



## technobear

Cevisi said:


> Does oversampling not mess up with the sound ?


That depends on how it's done and where it's done. Sometimes the upsampling on a PC will be better than the upsampling on a DAC, sometimes not.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Facta said:


> I was using VLC for playing only films. Would certainly love it, if you have a good player recommendation for both audio and video.



VLC does support a surprisingly wide variety of audio formats. But it is not optimised for audio. foobar2000 for audio, whatever you like for video, for video. I don't know of an all in one player. The focus is pretty different no pun intended


----------



## GumbyDammit223

gimmeheadroom said:


> VLC does support a surprisingly wide variety of audio formats. But it is not optimised for audio. foobar2000 for audio, whatever you like for video, for video. I don't know of an all in one player. The focus is pretty different no pun intended


This is exactly my setup too.  Foobar is amazingly complex and featured...and free!  VLC is my choice for video files.  I do have other programs for when I want to watch DVDs on my computer, but I bet VLC would do that too.


----------



## albertmuc (Sep 17, 2020)

...


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (Sep 17, 2020)

Cevisi said:


> Does oversampling not mess up with the sound ?



Just telling you what might the program can do for you while watching videos. Of course it depends on you/your experience/beliefs.

Give it a try: link

For example what the program can do:
Here I am playing Greyhound 2020 on 2160p and while audio is processed realtime thru Ozone 9 (as VST3 plugin).






Sorry for the *OT* guyz...just helping...


----------



## Cevisi

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Just telling you what might the program can do for you while watching videos. Of course it depends on you/your experience/beliefs.
> 
> Give it a try: link


I never tried oversampling i will give it a try thanks


----------



## Lolito

for the mac users out there, what do you prefer for music; foobar or audirvana? is there a foobar for mac? I´m really happy with audirvana, much better than itunes, it can play flac and dsd, and it changes the dac sample rate automatically for each track...


----------



## Progisus

Audirvana has a great sound engine and Tidal And Qobuz integration. I always have Audirvana running on the server but I normally use roon. I used foobar in my windows days but was happy to ditch it when I switched to mac. I also run Jriver on the server for remote hi rez playback.


----------



## GSquaredFi

I'm currently using this paired with Hifiman Aryas and some Beyerdynamic DT990 dailies, it is absolutely wonderful. This is after swapping from a Schiit stack of a Bifrost/Lyr2 I grabbed info on a good EQ for the Aryas from a wiki and it really cleaned up the sound overall on those. Since it is so close to me all the time the remote is still in the wrapper though! Probably my best audio investment next to the Aryas.

I do wonder if I am getting the most out of it since there are so many settings, though. (Using FLAC files / Amazon Music Ultra HD)


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

GSquaredFi said:


> I'm currently using this paired with Hifiman Aryas and some Beyerdynamic DT990 dailies, it is absolutely wonderful. This is after swapping from a Schiit stack of a Bifrost/Lyr2 I grabbed info on a good EQ for the Aryas from a wiki and it really cleaned up the sound overall on those. Since it is so close to me all the time the remote is still in the wrapper though! Probably my best audio investment next to the Aryas.
> 
> I do wonder if I am getting the most out of it since there are so many settings, though. (Using FLAC files / Amazon Music Ultra HD)


I completely agree with you about both the Aryas and RME playing very well together and that both were amazing investments.


----------



## H20Fidelity (Sep 26, 2020)

I purchased the RME yesterday for my HD800, it drives them well enough in hi-power mode but I have heard more dynamics and thickness from a dedicated amp. The problem I see is because the ADI and its headphone out are so clean sounding and high in resolution adding many cheaper amps from here will degrade the signal taking you backwards. You'll need a dedicated amp of equal quality to take full advantage.


----------



## sabloke

Ordered a couple of Focal Shape 65 monitors today. Hope they'll sound good with the ADI-2 out of the balanced connection. Since the Shapes are active speakers it means that the ADI-2 is the only device required on my desk (2.0 X 1.0 m), other than the speakers and the PC monitor of course. Total price of this hi-fi mini-system is around US $2,100 and if it sounds like I think it will, I could not be happier. Anyone driving some quality active speakers/monitors with the RME? How do you find it?


----------



## Cevisi

There is new firmware for the adi released a month ago. I don't know if everyone knows that. There are no patch notes sadly.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> There is new firmware for the adi released a month ago. I don't know if everyone knows that. There are no patch notes sadly.



From the forum thread it looks like startup power management was changed.


----------



## sabloke

I installed the V. 33 version two weeks ago and can't see any change other than the version number at the start.


----------



## Slaphead

sabloke said:


> Ordered a couple of Focal Shape 65 monitors today. Hope they'll sound good with the ADI-2 out of the balanced connection. Since the Shapes are active speakers it means that the ADI-2 is the only device required on my desk (2.0 X 1.0 m), other than the speakers and the PC monitor of course. Total price of this hi-fi mini-system is around US $2,100 and if it sounds like I think it will, I could not be happier. Anyone driving some quality active speakers/monitors with the RME? How do you find it?



I'm using the Alpha 65s right out of the ADI-2 and they sound fantastic. I was going to get the Shape originally, but the side panel passive radiators simply would not work in my setup - I need front ported.

I think you'll be very happy for years to come.


----------



## dtaylor3911

Slaphead said:


> I'm using the Alpha 65s right out of the ADI-2 and they sound fantastic. I was going to get the Shape originally, but the side panel passive radiators simply would not work in my setup - I need front ported.
> 
> I think you'll be very happy for years to come.


I have a similar set up but with presonus temblor t10 and eris e5 monitors. I also have a small mixer for my synths all going into the t10 balanced trs inputs. I wanted to input my rme into the xlr inputs of the t10 separately, and then the rca outputs of the rme into a separate pair of desktop studio monitors. Connecting both balanced into the rme seems to disable one of them, so I'm having to connect the rme to the mixers balanced xlr input, with everything going through the mixer, which has two outputs to t10 and my desktop monitors. Sounds OK tbh but wondering if there is a way to keep the rme in a dedicated link to my monitors over balanced xlr without disabling the mixer inputs? Also not sure if I would lose a volume control over the rme - assume it's fixed line output? The rme is for listening pleasure only as I I have separate audio interfaces for recording. 

Cheers 
David


----------



## technobear

dtaylor3911 said:


> ... Also not sure if I would lose a volume control over the rme - assume it's fixed line output? ...


No, it isn't fixed.


----------



## dtaylor3911

technobear said:


> No, it isn't fixed.


Thanks just tested and found that out! Just plugging in the trs balanced cable on the t10 disables the xlr input from the rme, so think it's an either or choice. Can't be fiddling about behind the subwoofer so will leave it through the mixer xlr input which outputs balanced so minimal sq loss I think.


----------



## linearly

After a few weeks of testing the power on the ADI-2 with its original power supply and the Audiophonics 90 Euro linear power supply it was a toss up between them. With some songs I'd prefer the original psu, with others the linear one. That really shows how good the psu that comes with the ADI-2 is. For example with other dacs, Qutest the difference was obvious between the switching mode psu and a linear one. I also really love the the RME has variable voltage, between 9v-15v, that makes things much easier.

But apparently not all linear power supplies are made the same. Found that out after buying the Pro-Ject Power Box DS 2 Sources and comparing it with the Audiophonics one. Of course the price difference is huge between them, but in the end for me it was worth it. So how is the Pro-Ject linear psu compared with the stock RME power supply? Well now the difference is obvious from the first song, the linear psu is much much better. The sound becomes thicker, with more texture, the voices have a better impact and the biggest difference is with the instruments, they sound a lot more lifelike now. I hate to use this word, but everything sounds more 'analog' now. Thats the best way to describe it.

The RME ADI-2 with the Pro-Ject Power Box DS2 is on another level, didn't think that was possible since the RME was incredible already with its stock psu. If you are chasing the last %'s of sound quality like me buying the linear psu was a no brainer. This is my personal opinion, and all of us have different hearing and tastes, but with a good linear power supply the ADI-2 becomes sublime. The difference is so profound that I could never go back to stock. But if you already enjoy the stock psu sound ignore everything I wrote, your wallet will thank you later.


----------



## Wladimir (Sep 28, 2020)

linearly said:


> After a few weeks of testing the power on the ADI-2 with its original power supply and the Audiophonics 90 Euro linear power supply it was a toss up between them. With some songs I'd prefer the original psu, with others the linear one. That really shows how good the psu that comes with the ADI-2 is. For example with other dacs, Qutest the difference was obvious between the switching mode psu and a linear one. I also really love the the RME has variable voltage, between 9v-15v, that makes things much easier.
> 
> But apparently not all linear power supplies are made the same. Found that out after buying the Pro-Ject Power Box DS 2 Sources and comparing it with the Audiophonics one. Of course the price difference is huge between them, but in the end for me it was worth it. So how is the Pro-Ject linear psu compared with the stock RME power supply? Well now the difference is obvious from the first song, the linear psu is much much better. The sound becomes thicker, with more texture, the voices have a better impact and the biggest difference is with the instruments, they sound a lot more lifelike now. I hate to use this word, but everything sounds more 'analog' now. Thats the best way to describe it.
> 
> The RME ADI-2 with the Pro-Ject Power Box DS2 is on another level, didn't think that was possible since the RME was incredible already with its stock psu. If you are chasing the last %'s of sound quality like me buying the linear psu was a no brainer. This is my personal opinion, and all of us have different hearing and tastes, but with a good linear power supply the ADI-2 becomes sublime. The difference is so profound that I could never go back to stock. But if you already enjoy the stock psu sound ignore everything I wrote, your wallet will thank you later.


Wow thanks for your input. Just to make sure, which voltage/connection did you use from that Pro-ject Power Box? 15V?


----------



## Cannibalia

sabloke said:


> Ordered a couple of Focal Shape 65 monitors today. Hope they'll sound good with the ADI-2 out of the balanced connection. Since the Shapes are active speakers it means that the ADI-2 is the only device required on my desk (2.0 X 1.0 m), other than the speakers and the PC monitor of course. Total price of this hi-fi mini-system is around US $2,100 and if it sounds like I think it will, I could not be happier. Anyone driving some quality active speakers/monitors with the RME? How do you find it?



I'm driving Yamaha HS8s with the RME.  I have nothing to compare them to in terms of monitors, but I'm very happy.  Running balanced to the Yamahas, unbalanced to a Wells Milo.


----------



## creed2

Linearly I notice your findings very interesting with project power supply as I was considering buying the Teddy Pardo outboard power supply for $350 for the RME. I am using the RME with speakers and wondering if you noticed a increase in a more realistic sound stage? I've only owned the version 2 for a few weeks and am really enjoying it only thing I noticed is the soundstage is not as deep,wide and layered as my tube CD player and turntable. Any insight would be appreciated.


----------



## sabloke

Here's a crazy thought: since ADI-2 can run on 12V, why not use a computer power supply? They're not too expensive and most do a good job putting out low noise power.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

sabloke said:


> Here's a crazy thought: since ADI-2 can run on 12V, why not use a computer power supply? They're not too expensive and most do a good job putting out low noise power.



I guess you will not find a computer PSU that is not based on a switching design.


----------



## havagr8da

sabloke said:


> Ordered a couple of Focal Shape 65 monitors today. Hope they'll sound good with the ADI-2 out of the balanced connection. Since the Shapes are active speakers it means that the ADI-2 is the only device required on my desk (2.0 X 1.0 m), other than the speakers and the PC monitor of course. Total price of this hi-fi mini-system is around US $2,100 and if it sounds like I think it will, I could not be happier. Anyone driving some quality active speakers/monitors with the RME? How do you find it?


Running a pair of JBL 530s amped with a Dayton Audio APA 150 pre amped by a Schiit Audio Saga+ ADI-2 fed via rca. Just love the sound, it all works very well together while leaving the door open for future upgrades. The ADI-2 being the strongest link in the chain is a great place to start any system.


----------



## Slaphead

linearly said:


> After a few weeks of testing the power on the ADI-2 with its original power supply and the Audiophonics 90 Euro linear power supply it was a toss up between them. With some songs I'd prefer the original psu, with others the linear one. *That really shows how good the psu that comes with the ADI-2 is*. For example with other dacs, Qutest the difference was obvious between the switching mode psu and a linear one. I also really love the the RME has variable voltage, between 9v-15v, that makes things much easier.



Maybe, but the PSU that comes with the ADI-2 is still a switch mode PSU regardless. IMO your tests say more about the ADI-2's ability to reject PSU noise rather than the PSU being particularly good.


----------



## Karister (Sep 30, 2020)

I bought RME about three months ago and I must say it is awesome. I had a few headphone amps: Marantz HD-DAC1, Burson Conductor V2+, Schiit Bifrost 4490 + Asgard 2 and RME is by far superior to them. It low noise floor and super low output impedance produces undistorted and clear sound. No hissing or buzzing whatsoever. If someone needs more warmth or more analytical sound - it's onboard parametric EQ saves the day. While it is only 5-band, it is enough and allows much more sound correction than any AMP/DAC swap. Moreover you get what you want and you can adjust it freely while new DAC/AMP is one way ticket. Crossfeed is really nice too.1.5W of power is plenty and drives with ease even low sensitivity planars. RME actually cured me from audio-voodoo nonsense. Over time I connected it as DAC and pre-amp to my stereo. This parametric EQ is a killer feature. Good job RME! The only thing I could complain about is it's too low weight. It just moves back on my desk when I push gauges. And holding it with hand easily leaves greasy marks on top. Fortunately programmable remote control buttons help here.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Karister said:


> I bought RME about three months ago and I must say it is awesome. I had a few headphone amps: Marantz HD-DAC1, Burson Conductor V2+, Schiit Bifrost 4490 + Asgard 2 and RME is by far superior to them. It low noise floor and super low output impedance produces undistorted and clear sound. No hissing or buzzing whatsoever. If someone needs more warmth or more analytical sound - it's onboard parametric EQ saves the day. While it is only 5-band, it is enough and allows much more sound correction than any AMP/DAC swap. Moreover you get what you want and you can adjust it freely while new DAC/AMP is one way ticket. Crossfeed is really nice too.1.5W of power is plenty and drives with ease even low sensitivity planars. RME actually cured me from audio-voodoo nonsense. Over time I connected it as DAC and pre-amp to my stereo. This parametric EQ is a killer feature. Good job RME! The only thing I could complain about is it's too low weight. It just moves back on my desk when I push gauges. And holding it with hand easily leaves greasy marks on top. Fortunately programmable remote control buttons help here.


Good timing - I was just going to ask if the EQ feature makes the RME a good buy as you can adjust the sound to cater for different headphone signatures.


----------



## Cevisi

Hinomotocho said:


> Good timing - I was just going to ask if the EQ feature makes the RME a good buy as you can adjust the sound to cater for different headphone signatures.


Yes the eq helps if you don't use it on pc.


----------



## linearly

Wladimir said:


> Wow thanks for your input. Just to make sure, which voltage/connection did you use from that Pro-ject Power Box? 15V?



Yes the ProJect Power Box comes with a bounch of cables, the 9v are very thin, won't fit the RME without soldering, and since I was lazy and RME has variable voltage the 15V one fits perfectly without any modification out of the box.



creed2 said:


> Linearly I notice your findings very interesting with project power supply as I was considering buying the Teddy Pardo outboard power supply for $350 for the RME. I am using the RME with speakers and wondering if you noticed a increase in a more realistic sound stage? I've only owned the version 2 for a few weeks and am really enjoying it only thing I noticed is the soundstage is not as deep,wide and layered as my tube CD player and turntable. Any insight would be appreciated.



I'm sorry can't comment on the soundstage since I'm only using headphones, but the linear power supply (a good one) changed the sound to the better in every area, can't imagine it won't improve the soundstage too. I'd say give it a try and if you don't like it you can return the psu. Also try and burn in the RME for about 100 hours, mine started to sound much better after that time.


----------



## Lolito

i was looking for a dac amp, but a cheap one. Apparently those topping dx7 pro have issues, and already 600€. I´m between topping dx3 pro for 220€, or the RME for 750€+tax b-stock...


----------



## Wladimir

linearly said:


> Yes the ProJect Power Box comes with a bounch of cables, the 9v are very thin, won't fit the RME without soldering, and since I was lazy and RME has variable voltage the 15V one fits perfectly without any modification out of the box.


Great, that just further confirms previous reports that RME with 15V PS sounds noticeably better. You are already third person I found on forums to report it.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Lolito said:


> i was looking for a dac amp, but a cheap one. Apparently those topping dx7 pro have issues, and already 600€. I´m between topping dx3 pro for 220€, or the RME for 750€+tax b-stock...



Hardly anyone regrets getting the RME. If I were you, I would go for a new unit for 950€ on Thomann. Peace of mind in getting a new unit. Mine has been running daily for hours since January 2019.


----------



## Karister

Hinomotocho said:


> Good timing - I was just going to ask if the EQ feature makes the RME a good buy as you can adjust the sound to cater for different headphone signatures.


You can simulate it with APO EQ for Windows. It is also parametrical. Just remember that RME is limited to five bands and you can set gain from -12dB to +12dB and Q from 0.5 to 9.9. Only first and last bands can be shelf filters while all five can be used as peak filters. This does not allow to completely change sound signature but is more than enough to tweak headphones that are already close to your taste.


----------



## creed2

I was told RME adi 2 uses a 12 v power supply. Am I understanding correctly that it can use a 15 v outboard power supply? Or is the 12 v the wrong power supply for the RME. Or is it it can use  a 12v or 15v with success. I haven't ordered one yet but do plan to in the next week or so.


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## Karister (Sep 30, 2020)

RME comes with it's own PSU. You can replace it, if you really want to. This is 10th page of RME ADI 2 DAC manual:


> 6. Power Supply
> 
> In order to make operating the ADI-2 DAC as flexible as possible, the unit has a universal DC input socket, accepting voltages from 9.5 Volts up to 15 Volts. An internal switching regulator of the latest technology with high efficiency (> 90%) prevents internal hum noise by operating above audible frequencies. Internally the switching regulator is followed by standard linear regulators, followed by super low-noise linear regulators. Therefore the ADI-2 DAC achieves its technical specs even with less optimal power supplies. Or in other words: the choice of power supply is not critical.
> 
> ...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lolito said:


> i was looking for a dac amp, but a cheap one. Apparently those topping dx7 pro have issues, and already 600€. I´m between topping dx3 pro for 220€, or the RME for 750€+tax b-stock...



If you can afford the RME it is one of the best values in hifi. It's a bit fiddly to get it set up but it is hugely customizable and very musical. It does not drive 300 ohm Sennheisers well IMHO.



Karister said:


> You can simulate it with APO EQ for Windows. It is also parametrical. Just remember that RME is limited to five bands and you can set gain from -12dB to +12dB and Q from 0.5 to 9.9. Only first and last bands can be shelf filters while all five can be used as peak filters. This does not allow to completely change sound signature but is more than enough to tweak headphones that are already close to your taste.


Parametric EQ is not about changing sound signature. It's about correcting sonic problems. 5 bands is plenty. Some commercial parametric EQ from pro audio companies have only 3 bands.


----------



## Karister

gimmeheadroom said:


> Parametric EQ is not about changing sound signature. It's about correcting sonic problems. 5 bands is plenty. Some commercial parametric EQ from pro audio companies have only 3 bands.


Why not? Sound wave that comes to human ears is sum of all frequencies in recording. Some people say that soundstage is wide, bass is three-dimensional or vocals has nice texture. Whatever we name it, it is result of sound wave shape. And with parametric EQ you can freely transform it provided that you are not limited by number of bands or headphones technical specs. You can completely change headphones sound signature, if you wish. Surely it is better to get headphones that sounds perfectly out of the box but I am not purist here. I'd prefer comfy headphones + advanced equalisation rather than perfect sound without EQ and having uncomfortable cans. I can agree that PEQ can be used for sonic corrections in HiFi systems when room acoustics influence sound. But in case of headphones this problem is gone and PEQ is all about adjusting sound to personal test IMO. And of course it is hard or impossible to get exactly the same sound that other headphones have but still PEQ can do a lot.


----------



## Slaphead

Karister said:


> You can simulate it with APO EQ for Windows. It is also parametrical. *Just remember that RME is limited to five bands* and you can set gain from -12dB to +12dB and Q from 0.5 to 9.9. Only first and last bands can be shelf filters while all five can be used as peak filters. This does not allow to completely change sound signature but is more than enough to tweak headphones that are already close to your taste.



If you're needing to use more than 5 bands on a PEQ then it's probably one of the following reasons

1. You're a sound engineer looking to create something otherworldly

2. Your source material is so screwed that absolutely nothing is going to save it.

3. You don't have single clue about what EQ is, let alone how to use it.


----------



## Karister

I can't agree with it. In the past I owned Audioquest Nighthawk as PC headphones due to their outstanding comfort. But I completely disliked their sound and I needed more than 5 bands to make their sound at least close to my liking.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Karister said:


> I can't agree with it. In the past I owned Audioquest Nighthawk as PC headphones due to their outstanding comfort. But I completely disliked their sound and I needed more than 5 bands to make their sound at least close to my liking.



This did it for me:

Band 1 : G -4.0 F 230 Q 0.7
Band 2 : G - 3.0 F 600 Q 0.5
Band 3: G +6.0 F 950 Q 1.0
Band 4: G +2.0 F 3.0k Q 1.0
Band 5: G +2.0 F 5.0k Q 1.0

I am actually listening to these magic Hawks right now. If I press 4 on the remote the EQ goes away and it's not pleasant. I press 4 again and it's relax and enjoy time. Mind you that 90% of the time I listen to the superb, end-game HD-600 on a nice tube amp, so if the Hawks become acceptable to me with this EQ, it's saying something (to my ears  ).


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## Karister (Sep 30, 2020)

Matter of taste. I love HFM Arya sound signature which is far, far from Nighthawks. And I do care about details like timbre of snare drum. Currently I use 5 bands for really little Arya sound correction. By little I mean that I fail AB test in some songs that lack particular sounds. In other songs, on the other hand, I have no problem with 100% result. And this little correction uses 5 bands:



If I would like to create more detailed correction (say one more dip somewhere), I can't. Anyway, RME is a great product and surely I could get satisfying result with 4 bands by merging bands 3 and 4 together but I like to play with PEQ and experiments are much easier when I am not limited to 5 bands.


----------



## sabloke

linearly said:


> Yes the ProJect Power Box comes with a bounch of cables, the 9v are very thin, won't fit the RME without soldering, and since I was lazy and RME has variable voltage the 15V one fits perfectly without any modification out of the box.



Is the DAC running warmer on 15V than 12V? Not sure which one to go for... I want the best sq but if that means running the unit warmer then I'll stick to 12V.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

sabloke said:


> Is the DAC running warmer on 15V than 12V? Not sure which one to go for... I want the best sq but if that means running the unit warmer then I'll stick to 12V.


It requires 12 volts.  It can accept up to 15 volt input but it must dissipate those additional 3 volts as heat.  Hence it _will_ run warmer. No need to give it extra voltage if it doesn't need it.


----------



## Louisiana

Has anyone tried this before:  https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/hifi...er-supply-12-15-16v-12-15-16v-2a-p-14352.html


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## gimmeheadroom (Oct 1, 2020)

400 euros for 2 amperes output? I'd rather tape and glue together a high performance array of Samsung phone chargers...

Seriously, look into used amateur radio power linear supplies. Built like tanks and huge current capacity and will keep your home warm in the winter.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

I like what Rob Watts said in a post yesterday:  "A lot of "audiophile" PSUs are simply unregulated rubbish"

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/watts-up.800264/post-15892977


----------



## DivineCurrent

Anyone got suggestions for a portable solution with digital volume control like the RME and high power output? I am using the FiiO Q1 MKii currently, but that can only drive my Focal Clear and HD58X well, not so much my Sundara. I've heard great things about the Chord Mojo, but the short battery life issue is holding me back on purchasing that.


----------



## realmassy

CaptainFantastic said:


> I like what Rob Watts said in a post yesterday:  "A lot of "audiophile" PSUs are simply unregulated rubbish"
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/watts-up.800264/post-15892977



Very good point.
And I'm sure someone else has already posted the opinion of the RME engineers about 'audiophile' PSUs

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28734

I tend to agree with the engineers that built the DAC rather than the users claims...but it's probably just me


----------



## creed2

Does anyone know what the size is of the power supply plug that goes into back of the RME adi2? It would either be a 2.1 or 2.5. I need to know so I can order a psu. I know a lot of people don't believe an upgraded psu makes a difference and I respect that but I have had opposite experience with all me audio gear. I've done it on my preamp, phono preamp, turntable and every time it made things more natural and musical.


----------



## sabloke

creed2 said:


> Does anyone know what the size is of the power supply plug that goes into back of the RME adi2? It would either be a 2.1 or 2.5. I need to know so I can order a psu. I know a lot of people don't believe an upgraded psu makes a difference and I respect that but I have had opposite experience with all me audio gear. I've done it on my preamp, phono preamp, turntable and every time it made things more natural and musical.


 
It is a 2.1 plug. What PSU are you looking to order? I'm leaning Teddy Pardo, 12V.


----------



## Cevisi

the adi 2 already has an inaudible noise floor. an expensive PSU will bring nothing


----------



## creed2

Yes bought Teddy Pardo tonight, have a friend that added one couple months ago to his 12v RME. He said he was amazed with the improvement and wouldn't be able to go back without it.


----------



## cistercian

creed2 said:


> Does anyone know what the size is of the power supply plug that goes into back of the RME adi2? It would either be a 2.1 or 2.5. I need to know so I can order a psu. I know a lot of people don't believe an upgraded psu makes a difference and I respect that but I have had opposite experience with all me audio gear. I've done it on my preamp, phono preamp, turntable and every time it made things more natural and musical.


 Unlike lesser gear the RME has a critically low noise switching supply built in. This power supply accepts a decently wide range of input
DC to power it. The power supply that is external that comes with the DAC is more than sufficient.
  Changing the external supply will change nothing...because the RME is fantastically engineered. Lesser equipment will improve perhaps...

 The RME won't. It is epic as delivered.


----------



## nlths

Hi, I am quite new to the audiophile world and still trying to learn.
My current setting is RME adi 2 dac and focal clear professional with high gain setting. I am quite happy with the sound quality and neutral signature.
But will I get improvement after getting an additional headphone amp? (ranging from Lake people G111/ RHNP to Phonitor XE)
Thank you.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

nlths said:


> Hi, I am quite new to the audiophile world and still trying to learn.
> My current setting is RME adi 2 dac and focal clear professional with high gain setting. I am quite happy with the sound quality and neutral signature.
> But will I get improvement after getting an additional headphone amp? (ranging from Lake people G111/ RHNP to Phonitor XE)
> Thank you.


Probably not. Focal's page says they're designed to run from portable devices. 55 ohms and 104 dB @ 1mW is no problem for the RME amp section.


----------



## nlths

gimmeheadroom said:


> Probably not. Focal's page says they're designed to run from portable devices. 55 ohms and 104 dB @ 1mW is no problem for the RME amp section.


Thanks. Does it mean that getting an amp with this setting would only helping tuning the sound signature but not increasing performance?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

nlths said:


> Thanks. Does it mean that getting an amp with this setting would only helping tuning the sound signature but not increasing performance?


I would not even say that. The RME's parametric EQ is going to be a lot more helpful in tuning predictably than an amp. A solid state amp will generally not have much effect on sound signature and I am not sure but I would guess there is not much to be gained running the Clears off a tube hybrid.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> I would not even say that. The RME's parametric EQ is going to be a lot more helpful in tuning predictably than an amp. A solid state amp will generally not have much effect on sound signature and I am not sure but I would guess there is not much to be gained running the Clears off a tube hybrid.



Yes, I agree. Unfortunately I think people sometimes have to hear these changes for themselves and decide. About 18 months ago in this thread a few people were recommending adding the Gilmore Lite Mk2 to improve the sound. I bought it, tried it for myself, decided that it did change the sound but not to my preference, not with the Audeze or Sennheisers I had back then, so I sold it. Maybe for others it helped improve their experience.

Then some 8 months ago I added an OTL tube amp for the Sennheisers and the improvement is clear. Not sure the same would happen for the Focals with this amp. All this to say, sometimes if you are not sure but aching to try, go for it. Worst case scenario you will lose 20% and some time in the sale-resale process, but you will have learned something.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> Yes, I agree. Unfortunately I think people sometimes have to hear these changes for themselves and decide. About 18 months ago in this thread a few people were recommending adding the Gilmore Lite Mk2 to improve the sound. I bought it, tried it for myself, decided that it did change the sound but not to my preference, not with the Audeze or Sennheisers I had back then, so I sold it. Maybe for others it helped improve their experience.
> 
> Then some 8 months ago I added an OTL tube amp for the Sennheisers and the improvement is clear. Not sure the same would happen for the Focals with this amp. All this to say, sometimes if you are not sure but aching to try, go for it. Worst case scenario you will lose 20% and some time in the sale-resale process, but you will have learned something.



The Clears will definitely not get along with an OTL amp since they're only 55 ohms. I run my LCD-3 which are rated at 110 ohms off a tube hybrid and it's enjoyable but if somebody already has the RME they have more control over the sound than any amp can provide. It won't make the headphones sound like they're running off a tube amp but you will be able to fix any minor issues you want to. Trying to tune sound signature of low impedance cans with an amp is going to be a fruitless exercise and cost a lot of money.


----------



## nlths

gimmeheadroom said:


> The Clears will definitely not get along with an OTL amp since they're only 55 ohms. I run my LCD-3 which are rated at 110 ohms off a tube hybrid and it's enjoyable but if somebody already has the RME they have more control over the sound than any amp can provide. It won't make the headphones sound like they're running off a tube amp but you will be able to fix any minor issues you want to. Trying to tune sound signature of low impedance cans with an amp is going to be a fruitless exercise and cost a lot of money.


so I guess this also applies if my next upgrade would be utopia headphone with 80 ohms?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

nlths said:


> so I guess this also applies if my next upgrade would be utopia headphone with 80 ohms?



Why go for the same tonal balance and not try something organic and beautiful in a different way, like this bad boy. It's 300 ohm, so it will give you a good reason to invest in a nice amp.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

nlths said:


> so I guess this also applies if my next upgrade would be utopia headphone with 80 ohms?


Yes. I would not expect an amp to have much influence on sound signature. You can spend money on a great amp and get better quality sound out of your headphones though (more resolution, air etc). Save yourself some money and run them off the RME first. If you're happy then done. If not, take your cans and go sit down in a shop and try their amps. No sense throwing thousands of euros/dollars on a whim.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> Why go for the same tonal balance and not try something organic and beautiful in a different way, like this bad boy. It's 300 ohm, so it will give you a good reason to invest in a nice amp.


Because then he will need to buy an amp


----------



## nlths

CaptainFantastic said:


> Why go for the same tonal balance and not try something organic and beautiful in a different way, like this bad boy. It's 300 ohm, so it will give you a good reason to invest in a nice amp.


I'd say it's only because I have not tried enough headphones and the focal clear is the first that I really liked.
Actually ADX5000 is also on my list


----------



## DivineCurrent

nlths said:


> Hi, I am quite new to the audiophile world and still trying to learn.
> My current setting is RME adi 2 dac and focal clear professional with high gain setting. I am quite happy with the sound quality and neutral signature.
> But will I get improvement after getting an additional headphone amp? (ranging from Lake people G111/ RHNP to Phonitor XE)
> Thank you.


That's my setup too! 
This is my personal opinion, the ADI-2 DAC is more than you will ever need for the Focal Clear. In fact, if you get a separate amp, you may lose the benefits of the RME's digital volume control, which gives you perfect channel matching with any volume level. The problem with some analog volume controls on separate amps, is the slight channel imbalance when adjusting the volume. It may not be noticeable most of the time, but it is certainly measurable. 
I agree with what the others said, only consider an additional amp if you plan to get any harder to drive headphones. Even then, you may not need it because the RME already has high output power.


----------



## Lolito

I´ve read in another place that the RME, when reproducing DSD natively, not DOP, it will have no DSP, no EQ and no volume control... Is this true?
If so, then probably my idea of a dac/amp not worth it really, better separated dac plus headphone amp/pre amp....


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lolito said:


> I´ve read in another place that the RME, when reproducing DSD natively, not DOP, it will have no DSP, no EQ and no volume control... Is this true?
> If so, then probably my idea of a dac/amp not worth it really, better separated dac plus headphone amp/pre amp....


In pure DSD mode then yeah it is available only out the back line level. But you can also use the internal conversion to PCM. I would guess the majority of DACs don't even have pure DSD mode. I think if you have both modes like the RME there is nothing to complain about.


----------



## Lolito

yes, more than complaining, i am interested on knowing the practical part of how it works, so I can decide what to purchase and how to use it, so there are no issues later.

Thing is, right now I have a DAC that also doesnt allow volume change on DSD, at least with the current software setup I am using, but then I have a fully analog headphone amp/pre amp that has full control of the volume no matter what, for both headphones or the connected active studio speakers... The little analog amp/pre-amp allows me that volume change currently, keeping the native DSD, or any dac job, at full volume for max performance. I will therefore loose that hability now with RME if I want to keep using native DSD playback?

Not sure if I explained myself properly or well enough. My current setup stars cost me 630€+VAT in speakers, 200€ in best headphone, to put a 900€ source, it better be perfect or otherwise it's an overkill for my very modest setup.


----------



## H20Fidelity

ADI 2 drives HD800 decently in hi-power mode or using Auto Ref feature, its more than listenable and good quality but I have heard the HD800 from a dedicated amp perform better. Unless you're freaky like most of us here seeking the best a general consumer would be more than happy.


----------



## Cyrusis

Hi everyone, I'm hoping I can run some questions by you all about the ADI-2 Pro FS R.

I recently purchase some ZMF Verite Closed headphones and the Ampsandsound Mogwai SE tube amp. I require a DAC, and with the help of some forum members, I think I've landed on the ADI-2 Pro FS R. Have a healthy budget and wanted balanced headphone support, so I figured I'd just buy the higher tier model.

That aside, I'm now wondering how the connections will work. My tube amplifier only has RCA analog inputs, and I'm noticing that this DAC/AMP doesn't have an analog output. What would be the ideal method of connecting the my tube amp to the ADI-2 Pro? Second question is about connecting the balanced headphones with terminate with 4XLR when I want to listen to a solid state amp. What kind of adapter would I require in order to connect this?

Because the ZMF cans are 300ohms, will this amp not run them adequately (performance and power)?

And one last question, will this DAC be too much to deal with for someone who is relatively new to hi-fi audio equipment and settings? The on screen settings are mostly foreign to me, so I'm partly hoping there are some defaults. I'm not opposed to learning though.

Thank you so much for any help you can offer.


----------



## realmassy

Probably not the most helpful post, but I just wanted to share how much I’m enjoying the pair ADI-2 / Ananda. 
I recently discovered Medici.tv, and OMG, this is heaven for anyone loving Classical music. Anything from chamber to concertos sounds sublime and obviously videos make everything so engaging...just finished watching a live performance of Shostakovich Cello Concerto no. 1 and I even clapped at the end!
Can’t detect anything wrong in the sound, no harshness or lack of power or in the low end...just marvellous notes!


----------



## H20Fidelity (Oct 4, 2020)

sabloke said:


> Here's a crazy thought: since ADI-2 can run on 12V, why not use a computer power supply? They're not too expensive and most do a good job putting out low noise power.





Cyrusis said:


> ADI-2 Pro FS R



If you really want the Pro model you can buy XLR to RCA cables but it won't be balanced, your amp only has RCA inputs like you said.

From what I understand you don't need the Pro version unless you want the mic input and doing recording.

The one we're buying is the model that does have RCA outputs on the back.

Its a good DAC and will keep you happy for sometime and it can drive 300ohm headphones quite well.

I use with HD800 and its generally fine, but I will tinker with adding an amp in my own time.


----------



## Cyrusis

H20Fidelity said:


> If you really want the Pro model you can buy XLR to RCA cables but it won't be balanced, your amp only has RCA inputs like you said.
> 
> From what I understand you don't need the Pro version unless you want the mic input and doing recording.
> 
> ...




Thanks for your response! I'm going for the pro model because my headphones are balanced and for the upgraded chip mostly. I read the manual and will be going dual 1/4" TS male to dual RCA male — I believe that will work, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks again!


----------



## H20Fidelity

Cyrusis said:


> Thanks for your response! I'm going for the pro model because my headphones are balanced and for the upgraded chip mostly. I read the manual and will be going dual 1/4" TS male to dual RCA male — I believe that will work, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks again!



That will work balanced straight from the unit itself.

Or you could get the FS model and invest in a balanced amplifier.


----------



## NehPets

Cyrusis said:


> Thanks for your response! I'm going for the pro model because my headphones are balanced and for the upgraded chip mostly. I read the manual and will be going dual 1/4" TS male to dual RCA male — I believe that will work, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks again!


What chip upgrade would you be getting with the "Pro"?


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## Cyrusis (Oct 4, 2020)

NehPets said:


> What chip upgrade would you be getting with the "Pro"?


The AK4493 chip.


----------



## canfabulous

Cyrusis said:


> The AK4493 chip.


That comes in the later revision of the non pro version too, in case you didn’t know.


----------



## Wladimir

Cyrusis said:


> The AK4493 chip.


The newest revision of the "non-pro" edition on the market right now is with AK4493 as well. But people generally don't hear any sonic improvement in the DAC section between those two anyway.


----------



## Cyrusis

Wladimir said:


> The newest revision of the "non-pro" edition on the market right now is with AK4493 as well. But people generally don't hear any sonic improvement in the DAC section between those two anyway.



Oh, I didn't realize that. Now I just need to decide if the balanced headphone compatibility on the Pro version is worth an extra $1K+. Dang. Do you know if anyone has ever compared the two amps, one in unbalanced and the other balanced? I'm new to hi-fi audio gear, and really don't know what to expect.


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## Cevisi (Oct 4, 2020)

Cyrusis said:


> Oh, I didn't realize that. Now I just need to decide if the balanced headphone compatibility on the Pro version is worth an extra $1K+. Dang. Do you know if anyone has ever compared the two amps, one in unbalanced and the other balanced? I'm new to hi-fi audio gear, and really don't know what to expect.


The non pro has better audiophile features. Like the nos filter that can smooth out peaky headphones and a dark mode if you want to disable the display while playing. It also measures better.

For that extra money for the pro you could get a separate amp and connect them with a xlr cable something like topping a90 measures better then the adi amp section

In the audio world, pro means pro its analytical for professionals not to enjoy music its to creat music for others to enjoy


----------



## Oddiofyl

I am using the RME with  Quicksilver headphone amp and it is an awesome combo.....  I know its not balanced , but it is a sweet sounding amp.  Its a single ended triode , sweet EL84 sound ... best $1000 I have spent in a while.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Cevisi said:


> For that extra money for the pro you could get a separate amp and connect them wire xlr cable somthing like topping a90 measures better then the adi amp section



Oooo this sounds like a nice combo I did not think of.  Anyone here have this combo?  I know the general consensus on here is that not many amps that we have tried made enough of an improvement to be worth it.


----------



## albertmuc (Oct 5, 2020)

I just ordered my second RME ADI-2 Dac,
don't know yet what to do with it 
but these days the devices sells at 945€,
incredible cheep especially considering the performance.


----------



## Crazeenick

Has anyone tried using a Chord MScaler with the RME ADI-2 DAC?  Do they work well together?  What sort of sound improvement did you get?  How did you connect the two? - using BNC/RCA or TOSLINK optical link?


----------



## Yorch Hernandez

Hi everyone, I've been following this post, I hope someone can help me.
Someone has used RME as a dac connected by XLR or RCA to a preamp or amplifier?
I've read a lot about your headphone amplifier output, but not for setting up shelf or floor speakers.
I plan to use it with this Emotiva (XPA-2 gen3 Amplifier, XSP-1 gen2 preamp) plus Bowers and Wilkins CM10 S2 equipment. connecting it to the preamp emotive by XLR.
Some comments mention that in hearing aids they sound flat, or with little bass stroke, or soft and boring.
Do you think that in a system like mio get authority and kick at low frequencies mainly on the kick drum?
If low frequency is not enough, can I significantly increase them with EQ and tone control?
I would appreciate and appreciate your thoughts.
If someone already used the dac that way.


----------



## gikigill

You can tweak the RME in many ways so lack of bass wont be an issue. Customization is one of the biggest strengths of the RME.


----------



## creed2

RME was my first step into streaming bought it a little over a month ago and have it connected to a Auralic Aries. I need to figure out which type of cable (USB or coax) I would like to invest a little money in either USB or coax it will be going between streamer and dac. Could some one tell me which one they prefer and why. I'm using the stock USB that came with RME and a JPS Labs superconductor first generation from1995. I like both but there different coax is more layed back and natural USB maybe a little edgy but can be solved with EQ, I find USB a little more detailed.Can USB be made to sound layed back/analog like the coax does in my system and keep the detail.


----------



## sabloke

Got my Focal Shape 65 monitors today. Wow! Who would have thought that a German and a couple of French dudes can work so well together! Spectacular detail and imaging, amazing precision. I am extremely happy with the combo. The only issue is these don't have gain control and I have to use them at -50 dBu. Should I reduce the DAC output maybe? I listen headphones at much higher levels, around -20 dBu, but there the speakers would simply ruin my hairdo


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cyrusis said:


> Oh, I didn't realize that. Now I just need to decide if the balanced headphone compatibility on the Pro version is worth an extra $1K+. Dang. Do you know if anyone has ever compared the two amps, one in unbalanced and the other balanced? I'm new to hi-fi audio gear, and really don't know what to expect.



The balanced headamp possibility is not the reason it costs more (should not be 1K more, btw).. the Pro is also an ADC.



Yorch Hernandez said:


> Hi everyone, I've been following this post, I hope someone can help me.
> Someone has used RME as a dac connected by XLR or RCA to a preamp or amplifier?
> I've read a lot about your headphone amplifier output, but not for setting up shelf or floor speakers.
> I plan to use it with this Emotiva (XPA-2 gen3 Amplifier, XSP-1 gen2 preamp) plus Bowers and Wilkins CM10 S2 equipment. connecting it to the preamp emotive by XLR.
> ...



Yes, many people run the RME into a separate amp. I don't like the way Sennheisers sound out of the RME so a separate amp is good.



creed2 said:


> RME was my first step into streaming bought it a little over a month ago and have it connected to a Auralic Aries. I need to figure out which type of cable (USB or coax) I would like to invest a little money in either USB or coax it will be going between streamer and dac. Could some one tell me which one they prefer and why. I'm using the stock USB that came with RME and a JPS Labs superconductor first generation from1995. I like both but there different coax is more layed back and natural USB maybe a little edgy but can be solved with EQ, I find USB a little more detailed.Can USB be made to sound layed back/analog like the coax does in my system and keep the detail.



I think people who buy RME products do not believe in cables. I doubt you can run most streamers into a DAC over USB. You're going to need coax, optical, etc.


----------



## creed2

Gemmeheadroom, my streamer has USB and coax out as well as others but I will only be using the 2 mentioned. I respect your views but do not agree that all people that buy RME do not believe in cables. There has to be someone that prefers one or the other. I hear a difference between the 2. Coax comes across more natural but wondering if that can be achieved with USB or does USB brings out more detail due to what I'm hearing.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Oct 7, 2020)

creed2 said:


> Gemmeheadroom, my streamer has USB and coax out as well as others but I will only be using the 2 mentioned. I respect your views but do not agree that all people that buy RME do not believe in cables. There has to be someone that prefers one or the other. I hear a difference between the 2. Coax comes across more natural but wondering if that can be achieved with USB or does USB brings out more detail due to what I'm hearing.



Edited; ok, I see what it is now. Coax and optical s/pdif are rated to 24/192. If you want high rate PCM or DSD it may work with those but USB would be better.

I still don't see a reason for either one to be better or worse when used within the rated speeds.


----------



## Wladimir

....Just today unpacked ADI-2 DAC and good lord, this is a gift from music-heaven. To anyone reading this and still hesitating whether to buy, just don't and frickin go for it. Worth every penny, even when it costs 3.5x of my headphones  🤣  Been through some mid-fi/chi-fi stuff, but this is no match


----------



## albertmuc (Oct 7, 2020)

Wladimir said:


> ....Worth every penny...


Worth every penny: second hand - that's almost theft.
Most sellers probably also ship within Europe.


----------



## sabloke

If you don't use some good active near field monitors with your RME ADI-2 DAC, why not? Why miss out on a spectacular musical experience? Seriously, I knew this little one is great with headphones and IEMs but with my new Focal Shape 65 it simply puts the orchestra in front of me!


----------



## Yorch Hernandez

Is it true that the presentation of RME pushes music, instruments, voice, more back, and that Qutest is closer to music, with one more presentation on your face and intimate?
Is that noticeable between these two dac?


----------



## creed2

I found something lacking with speakers but couldn't put my finger on it. I almost sent RME back. I added a 12v Teddy Pardo power supply and soundstage grew taller, wider and layered. Everything has a more natural tone, organic and real, I find it a game changer. I'm listening to it as I write this and very impressed with the change it made. I didn't want to give up on RME due to it being so open and clean without being harsh. I think the Teddy Pardo made it possible for me to keep RME a very long time.


----------



## gikigill

creed2 said:


> I found something lacking with speakers but couldn't put my finger on it. I almost sent RME back. I added a 12v Teddy Pardo power supply and soundstage grew taller, wider and layered. Everything has a more natural tone, organic and real, I find it a game changer. I'm listening to it as I write this and very impressed with the change it made. I didn't want to give up on RME due to it being so open and clean without being harsh. I think the Teddy Pardo made it possible for me to keep RME a very long time.



RME folks themselves don't advocate power supplies as they believe the stock one is pretty high quality and power supplies wont make any noticeable difference.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28734

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27006


----------



## gikigill

Yorch Hernandez said:


> Is it true that the presentation of RME pushes music, instruments, voice, more back, and that Qutest is closer to music, with one more presentation on your face and intimate?
> Is that noticeable between these two dac?




How do you define pushed back? What else is taking their place upfront if they are pushed back?


----------



## rickydenim

sabloke said:


> If you don't use some good active near field monitors with your RME ADI-2 DAC, why not? Why miss out on a spectacular musical experience? Seriously, I knew this little one is great with headphones and IEMs but with my new Focal Shape 65 it simply puts the orchestra in front of me!


I recently got the Shape 50 and was blown away how good these speakers sound! Currently running off a Topping DX3pro but I've been eyeing the ADI-2 big time. For use with my Focal Elegia also as I like a bit of EQ. Good to know they pair well!


----------



## creed2

I agree the RME power supply is better than many wall warts but there are better psu and they do help RME' s performance. I'm not the only one I know using the Teddy Pardo and other psu's to help RME perform better. It's not a night and day difference because RME performs very well stock, but there is a noticeable difference with better quality psu. I find it more enjoyable with Teddy psu vs stock, enough that it stopped me from returning RME due to soundstage.


----------



## Yorch Hernandez

gikigill said:


> How do you define pushed back? What else is taking their place upfront if they are pushed back?



Thanks for answering. Pushed back, that instruments and music are farther from me, as if the distance between me and the musicians is a little distant, advanced or intimate as if I had the musicians with their instrument very close to me.
I read that RME pushes music a little backwards, giving a sensation that the instruments are further away.


----------



## gikigill

Yorch Hernandez said:


> Thanks for answering. Pushed back, that instruments and music are farther from me, as if the distance between me and the musicians is a little distant, advanced or intimate as if I had the musicians with their instrument very close to me.
> I read that RME pushes music a little backwards, giving a sensation that the instruments are further away.



That sounds like an incorrect setting in the DAC. The RME is a complex beast so it can be very easy to get sound wrong since its very easy to get lost in the menus


----------



## gikigill

creed2 said:


> I agree the RME power supply is better than many wall warts but there are better psu and they do help RME' s performance. I'm not the only one I know using the Teddy Pardo and other psu's to help RME perform better. It's not a night and day difference because RME performs very well stock, but there is a noticeable difference with better quality psu. I find it more enjoyable with Teddy psu vs stock, enough that it stopped me from returning RME due to soundstage.



I am just gonna bow out from this conversation by saying that the RME folks probably know a thing or two about DACs compared to someone building power "audiophile" power supplies. Only possible improvement could be a medical grade power supply costing tens of thousands.

In Matthias own words:  "The point here is that a slight 'hum & buzz' is just that, and not some mysterious 'sound' change or possible improvement (glare, stage width, depth, separation - the usual audiophool stuff up to the all explaining jitter"


----------



## sabloke

gikigill said:


> RME folks themselves don't advocate power supplies as they believe the stock one is pretty high quality and power supplies wont make any noticeable difference.



Now I really really really want to get a linear power supply for my RME DAC! Just hold my beer while I place the order...


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Got my interest peeked.  I thought an amp would be a much more beneficial upgrade.  I am super happy right now stock and my darkvoice but I am interested


----------



## gikigill

sabloke said:


> Now I really really really want to get a linear power supply for my RME DAC! Just hold my beer while I place the order...



I already have one that came with a separate dac and no difference with the RME.


----------



## gikigill

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Got my interest peeked.  I thought an amp would be a much more beneficial upgrade.  I am super happy right now stock and my darkvoice but I am interested



RME with different amps is pretty fun.

Running it with a Bottlehead SEX and ifi iMicro Black Label and it's interesting.


----------



## sabloke

gikigill said:


> I already have one that came with a separate dac and no difference with the RME.



Interesting. Teddy Pardo is not a linear PSU from what I know though. Some swear by them combined with Naim gear dunno if or why would work well with RME. Low risk acquisition as I could just send it back.


----------



## gikigill

Worth a try I guess but considering RME does Pro audio which is much more technical than your average person's set up, I highly doubt it. 

Make sure the output voltage is correct since I've known 2 cases of folks overpowering their RME with 24V and breaking it. They were probably under the assumption that since RME specifies a variable input voltage for the ADI-2, higher voltage means better or louder sound. 

Turns out it only lead to a dead ADI-2.


----------



## cistercian

Yorch Hernandez said:


> Hi everyone, I've been following this post, I hope someone can help me.
> Someone has used RME as a dac connected by XLR or RCA to a preamp or amplifier?
> I've read a lot about your headphone amplifier output, but not for setting up shelf or floor speakers.
> I plan to use it with this Emotiva (XPA-2 gen3 Amplifier, XSP-1 gen2 preamp) plus Bowers and Wilkins CM10 S2 equipment. connecting it to the preamp emotive by XLR.
> ...



 I use my RME mainly to drive a Crown XLS 2502 amp which drives a pair of JBL835 passive 3 way speakers. The DAC sounds
 great in this use. I was using RCA cables but I switched to Mogami gold XLR cables. The RCA cables were very tight and I did not
want the connections to freeze over time. Also, the XLR output is higher voltage if I needed it. I am delighted with the bass...all frequencies
sound fantastic. With the RME I can boost the bass or engage loudness for some of my classical recordings. You can save EQ settings in memory
for your speakers and for different sets of phones too. 
  For critical listening I use my HD600's and when I want to play EDM loud I use the speakers. You will like the bass and treble control a lot and the EQ
if you need it too. It all works as it should with the maximum benefit of no added noise like an external EQ would add. You might be able to drive your amp
directly if that would work in your setup. You can set output ranges too which will help into the preamp. (output is adjustable for RCA and XLR...XLR
goes higher in voltage...great for my pro amp set to 1.414 volt input.)


----------



## Matias (Oct 9, 2020)

Has anyone tried to power the ADI-2 with an iFi iPower X (the new model)?
The DAC requires 9-15V DC 8W, so the iPower of 12V up to 2.0A seems ideal to me. It has active noise filtering and costs 100 usd.
https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipowerx/

Edit: found the answer already, works and is recommended.
https://www.amazon.com/review/RBNEWEQ517PWI


----------



## Yorch Hernandez

cistercian said:


> I use my RME mainly to drive a Crown XLS 2502 amp which drives a pair of JBL835 passive 3 way speakers. The DAC sounds
> great in this use. I was using RCA cables but I switched to Mogami gold XLR cables. The RCA cables were very tight and I did not
> want the connections to freeze over time. Also, the XLR output is higher voltage if I needed it. I am delighted with the bass...all frequencies
> sound fantastic. With the RME I can boost the bass or engage loudness for some of my classical recordings. You can save EQ settings in memory
> ...




Thank you Cistercian !!! Your comment is very helpful to me, I'm going to buy it and I hope to get the same happiness as you.
One more question, I read in some forums that the presentation of rme adi-2 dac is a little distant, as if pushing the music back, as if you were in a concert, and you were listening  three or four rows back, giving a feeling that you are farther away from musicians and their instruments.... in your system can you hear that? as if the room is deeper and you're further away from the musicians and their instruments?


----------



## Cevisi

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-you-need-linear-power-supply-for-dacs.7021/


----------



## cistercian

Yorch Hernandez said:


> Thank you Cistercian !!! Your comment is very helpful to me, I'm going to buy it and I hope to get the same happiness as you.
> One more question, I read in some forums that the presentation of rme adi-2 dac is a little distant, as if pushing the music back, as if you were in a concert, and you were listening  three or four rows back, giving a feeling that you are farther away from musicians and their instruments.... in your system can you hear that? as if the room is deeper and you're further away from the musicians and their instruments?



 No, I don't hear that at all. It sounds excellent and forward.


----------



## Slaphead

sabloke said:


> Got my Focal Shape 65 monitors today. Wow! Who would have thought that a German and a couple of French dudes can work so well together! Spectacular detail and imaging, amazing precision. I am extremely happy with the combo. The only issue is these don't have gain control and I have to use them at -50 dBu. Should I reduce the DAC output maybe? I listen headphones at much higher levels, around -20 dBu, but there the speakers would simply ruin my hairdo



Dunno if this has been answered already, but check page 64 and 65 of the manual. From that I gather the ADI uses a 42 bit space for the digital volume control meaning that even if you were using the maximum of 32 bit for source material then a rough calculation shows that you'd need the volume level at below -60dB before you'd lose any theoretical resolution, so I wouldn't worry about running at -50dB at all.

On my Alpha 65s I'm generally -35 to -45dB depending on source material. (and that's at the -5dBu output level) and I've no complaints at all.



sabloke said:


> If you don't use some good active near field monitors with your RME ADI-2 DAC, why not? Why miss out on a spectacular musical experience? Seriously, I knew this little one is great with headphones and IEMs but with my new Focal Shape 65 it simply puts the orchestra in front of me!



Since I've had my Alpha's I haven't bothered with headphones at all. The speaker experience from these is simply amazing - absolute pin point positioning, and honestly I can hear more detail through these than I can my LCD-2C or Beyer 1990 pros.


----------



## Yorch Hernandez

cistercian said:


> No, I don't hear that at all. It sounds excellent and forward.



I'm so glad to read that !!! I will ask for an RME, I am a little concerned that I also read that it has a somewhat cold sound, with little low frequency, but I can solve that with EQ and a good subwoofer, I already have the, JL Audio of 13.5 inches.


----------



## ok computer

Matias said:


> Has anyone tried to power the ADI-2 with an iFi iPower X (the new model)?
> The DAC requires 9-15V DC 8W, so the iPower of 12V up to 2.0A seems ideal to me. It has active noise filtering and costs 100 usd.
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipowerx/
> 
> ...



The Ipower X was a pretty large step up for me over the stock ps.  RME says it doesn’t make much difference but don’t listen to them, it’s well worth the hundred dollars.  And yeah the stock switcher is 12V 2A so that’s what I got and it works great.


----------



## gikigill

Matias said:


> Has anyone tried to power the ADI-2 with an iFi iPower X (the new model)?
> The DAC requires 9-15V DC 8W, so the iPower of 12V up to 2.0A seems ideal to me. It has active noise filtering and costs 100 usd.
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipowerx/
> 
> ...



The Amazon reviewer seems pretty defensive and not sure a voting AES member would go around spouting his qualifications.

He seems to be really trying hard to justify the spending.


----------



## szore

Hello folks....Looking at the ADI-2 DAC FS and wondering you ever miss having balanced out?  Also how is the quality of the headphone amp?


----------



## szore

Luckbad said:


> Oh man, I'm _loving _this sub-$2000 setup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is "Phase Reversal Trick'?


----------



## cistercian

Yorch Hernandez said:


> I'm so glad to read that !!! I will ask for an RME, I am a little concerned that I also read that it has a somewhat cold sound, with little low frequency, but I can solve that with EQ and a good subwoofer, I already have the, JL Audio of 13.5 inches.


 Don't worry. The RME has epic bass. It is flat to zero HZ.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

szore said:


> Hello folks....Looking at the ADI-2 DAC FS and wondering you ever miss having balanced out?  Also how is the quality of the headphone amp?



There is balanced out. 2 XLR jacks on the back panel.

The headamp quality is outstanding. But it does not have enough grunt for 300 ohm Sennheisers. I don't mind since I didn't expect the amp section to be very useful. That said, it does an outstanding job with my LCD-2C and does susprisingly well with my LCD-3F.


----------



## albertmuc (Oct 10, 2020)

szore said:


> Hello folks....Looking at the ADI-2 DAC FS and wondering you ever miss having balanced out?  Also how is the quality of the headphone amp?


My "Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 3" is connected to the IEM-out of the „RME ADI-2 DAC FS“:
the T1.3 couldn't sing better


----------



## linearly

I see a lot of folks doubting that a better psu, linear or switching can change the sound of the ADI-2 to the better. The original psu the ADI comes with is already excellent, and comparing it with my cheap linear psu I had it was better with some songs, worse with others. But with a better linear psu that has low output impedance and large filtering capability things got clearer on what is better. I got the Project Box DS2 sources as open box, I could've returned it at any time and save me 500 Euros, but for me the change was so impactful that I could not go back to my cheap linear psu or stock. 

Don't get me started with measurements, I had audio products that measure good and sounded like dog droppings and lost a lot of money barely selling them at 1/3rd of the price since no one was buying. The RME ADI-2 and the Qutest measure good and also sound very good, but measurements don't tell the whole story when it comes to audio, your ears has to be the final judge. 

On the Qutest forum Rob says that the stock linear psu is excellent etc, but a lot of users found out, me included, that the change in sound is huge with adding a better psu. I found that even phone charger batteries sound different, with some sounding harsher and worse then stock. What I'm saying is try things for yourself and decide what you like or not. In the end its your money and you decide on what you spend it on. 

Its funny to me that folks believe in measurements and what manufacturers say more then their own ears as I don't think the people that say a better psu can't sound better tried it themselves. And even if they did, it depends on everyone's home power, how many things you have plugged in that contaminate the ac line. In the end you have to be the one that decides what you do with your own money, and I trust folks opinions more then what manufacturers say to save some money with a psu that works everywhere in the world or save space, could you imagine a RME ADI-2 with a large 2kgs toroidal transformer? I'm happy to always tinker and squeeze the most of my audio system, not all folks are like me, and thats fine, but don't tell I'm imagining things without trying it yourself.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

If you notice, it's mostly low-end Chifi that wins the unverified measurement wars. So I see it as an ugly form of slumming by people who have never heard, seen, or touched great hifi gear.


----------



## Cevisi

gimmeheadroom said:


> If you notice, it's mostly low-end Chifi that wins the unverified measurement wars. So I see it as an ugly form of slumming by people who have never heard, seen, or touched great hifi gear.


Its actually very verified from independent sources with all parameters there is no magic behind physics 

And china is a very well educated country with first class engineers in semiconductor design
They take actually design und production cost with thier needed margin


Myself as a 4 year educated electronic technician and 6 years in business ask me this question

When the psu "does" make the sound that much better why not sell them customers medicore dac amps with a good psu. These psu cost nothing to produce and design.

Same with cables how should a expensive cable benefit your system when its bottlenecked by the internal wiring of the source and the headphones or speakers it self











By the way this man says his egg taste better after he yells meow at it


----------



## joefig44

Are there any recommended equalizer or other settings for pairing the ADI-2 FS with Sennheiser 800S?

I've implemented the ones found here:  https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/f0od0n/rme_adi2_dac_eq_configuration_for_hd800s/
(the ones by hacinoysei) but wondering if there are others to try or top recommended?

Also, should I be using Hi-Power instead of Low power setting on the RME?


----------



## Cevisi

joefig44 said:


> Are there any recommended equalizer or other settings for pairing the ADI-2 FS with Sennheiser 800S?
> 
> I've implemented the ones found here:  https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/f0od0n/rme_adi2_dac_eq_configuration_for_hd800s/
> (the ones by hacinoysei) but wondering if there are others to try or top recommended?
> ...






Band 7 and 8 is your bass and treble knob setting

This eq aplies the harmam curve to your hd800s

Just try high and low setting wich sounds better for you i like high gain on my dt1990 because it has a higher voltage swing and most high impedance headphones benefit from that


But i think you will have the best experience when you play around with the eq and find your selfmade prefered setting just safe differente eqs as setups so you can switch instantly between them and compare


----------



## creed2

I'll try to jump back in over the outboard psu, I bowed out couple weeks ago I don't want to argue with anyone but out board psu and cables make a big difference in my system. My Pass Labs preamp has a out board psu and it is as big as the preamp and makes a difference. I have upgraded the psu's on my Linn lp12 many times, the better the psu the better the presentation each time. Even my phono pre has outboard psu and helped sonically. When I added the Teddy Pardo power supply to the RME first thing I did was match the spl readings with the stock power supply with the Teddy Pardo with speakers so I wouldn't mistake louder for better. The soundstage expanded and noise floor dropped substantially, It added weight to instruments and everything sounds much more real and organic. Why is this hard to believe or hard understand a upgraded psu can help enjoy listening to music. I'm not going into cables but they make a huge difference for me.


----------



## Dogmatrix

I think the psu question boils down to what you are trying to achieve .
Technically the best solution is a simple 12 volt vehicle battery , not a power bank because they are often not 12 volt internally and use circuits to achieve 12 volts .
If on the other hand you seek to impart character to the device by using a technically inferior solution it should be understood the circuit in the RME is designed to prevent that .


----------



## gikigill

gimmeheadroom said:


> If you notice, it's mostly low-end Chifi that wins the unverified measurement wars. So I see it as an ugly form of slumming by people who have never heard, seen, or touched great hifi gear.



The Mola Mola is not cheap or Chi-fi and neither is the RME.


----------



## gikigill

linearly said:


> I see a lot of folks doubting that a better psu, linear or switching can change the sound of the ADI-2 to the better. The original psu the ADI comes with is already excellent, and comparing it with my cheap linear psu I had it was better with some songs, worse with others. But with a better linear psu that has low output impedance and large filtering capability things got clearer on what is better. I got the Project Box DS2 sources as open box, I could've returned it at any time and save me 500 Euros, but for me the change was so impactful that I could not go back to my cheap linear psu or stock.
> 
> Don't get me started with measurements, I had audio products that measure good and sounded like dog droppings and lost a lot of money barely selling them at 1/3rd of the price since no one was buying. The RME ADI-2 and the Qutest measure good and also sound very good, but measurements don't tell the whole story when it comes to audio, your ears has to be the final judge.
> 
> ...



3 linear/high quality PSUs, 2 RMEs, not a cent of difference.


----------



## betula

TBH I never really understood all these debates and fights on forums about measurements, graphs and data. It almost looks like a subsidiary of the hobby: people who love to argue about numbers. 
To me the ultimate test has always been my ears/hearing. Yes, graphs and measurement kind of helped me to find my trail of interest but they always were secondary. You listen with your ears and not with your eyes. Graphs, and measurements can be deceiving. Just have the courage to follow what you like. Even if it is not the 'mainstream audiophile taste'.


----------



## Lolito

gikigill said:


> Worth a try I guess but considering RME does Pro audio which is much more technical than your average person's set up, I highly doubt it.
> 
> Make sure the output voltage is correct since I've known 2 cases of folks overpowering their RME with 24V and breaking it. They were probably under the assumption that since RME specifies a variable input voltage for the ADI-2, higher voltage means better or louder sound.
> 
> Turns out it only lead to a dead ADI-2.



I know professional people with much lower gear than private crazy nerds user with plenty of free time to spend learning stuff, and they do have better gear than many pro's. The nowadays producers are known to be albe to work in a rear seat inside a car with a macbook, aparently. The pro level is not what it used to be.


----------



## Lolito

Cevisi said:


> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-you-need-linear-power-supply-for-dacs.7021/



This website starts to be quite useless now. So it measures no difference really between two types of power supplies, great. The problem is, that I am not an audio measuring machine, hehe, neither my ears. I am interested on knowing which one is going to sound better... to a human ear!!! if that is a more or less flat sound, or twicked here, or there, or this or that... fine, I can be interested on that too, of course, but, the importance here is to know what sounds better to your ear, and these Amir is measuring stuff and don't even listen to the devices, also, measurements vary a lot, depending on who makes them, even inside that website, same device measures different for different measurers... they even ahd to correct tests several times due to people complaining about wrong measurements... for example with the Neumann active studio monitor speakers, and bascially enything that is not chinese who I bet sponsor the site or give items for free to review in advance, etc... items designed to measure well, not to sound good, as subjective as that can be, nothing more authentic either.


----------



## Lolito (Oct 16, 2020)

Has anyone compared, owned and listened to one of these RME and one Denafrips ARES II and can comment about the differences based on actual long experience with both? thanks a lot!!!


----------



## Steve Wilcox

Lies, damned lies and statistics!  The world's obsessed with false objectivity. There's more people falling ill with Covid now than at the outbreak according to the stats. Of course it's just that more people are being tested.  In Hi Fi, scientific equipment can measure a tiny fraction of what our ears can hear and our brain perceive, but because they're 'objective' they take on far more weight than they merit.


----------



## Lolito

Steve Wilcox said:


> Lies, damned lies and statistics!  The world's obsessed with false objectivity. There's more people falling ill with Covid now than at the outbreak according to the stats. Of course it's just that more people are being tested.  In Hi Fi, scientific equipment can measure a tiny fraction of what our ears can hear and our brain perceive, but because they're 'objective' they take on far more weight than they merit.



Exactly, and this dac measures very very well, and the features are amazing, and you can feel this is german product, not chinese, whis will last, and it has no audiphile bull, and all things considered, the price is low. But the sound is really nothing better than a 140$ topping E30. Now it has proper XLR, it has headphone amp... great device, but soudns just like any other good current delta sigma dac, nothing more than that really. My 100$ current dac do that already. The 650$ denafrips ARES 2 is supposed to be way better than this RME in sound quality. it has more depth in the sound, more natural, and more 3D. This or the topping or most delta sigma have a 2D presentation, a wall of sound, but flattish. Chord is different, denafrips also different, better.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Lolito said:


> The 650$ denafrips ARES 2 is supposed to be way better than this RME in sound quality. it has more depth in the sound, more natural, and more 3D. This or the topping or most delta sigma have a 2D presentation, a wall of sound, but flattish. Chord is different, denafrips also different, better.



What do you mean when you say "It's supposed to"? You mean you are writing all this without having heard it?


----------



## gikigill

Lolito said:


> I know professional people with much lower gear than private crazy nerds user with plenty of free time to spend learning stuff, and they do have better gear than many pro's. The nowadays producers are known to be albe to work in a rear seat inside a car with a macbook, aparently. The pro level is not what it used to be.



So you're implying that RME don't know what they are doing?


----------



## gikigill

CaptainFantastic said:


> What do you mean when you say "It's supposed to"? You mean you are writing all this without having heard it?



Yup, that exactly what he means. 

I'm sitting here with a Chord Mojo, Bifrost Multibit, ifi dual set up Black Label, KTB, Resnoessence Concero, Grace M900, RME ADI-2 and I assure you each one of them has their merits and faults and no, R2R is not some magic bullet that solves it all. 

My favourite is the ifi Black Label for its overall sound and the RME for its features, tweaking ability and of course the cleanliness of its output. 

The ifi black label has a DS and Multibit hybrid implementation so make that of what you will.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Lolito said:


> Exactly, and this dac measures very very well, and the features are amazing, and you can feel this is german product, not chinese, whis will last, and it has no audiphile bull, and all things considered, the price is low. But the sound is really nothing better than a 140$ topping E30. Now it has proper XLR, it has headphone amp... great device, but soudns just like any other good current delta sigma dac, nothing more than that really. My 100$ current dac do that already. The 650$ denafrips ARES 2 is supposed to be way better than this RME in sound quality. it has more depth in the sound, more natural, and more 3D. This or the topping or most delta sigma have a 2D presentation, a wall of sound, but flattish. Chord is different, denafrips also different, better.


The amp and dac sections in the RME are designed to be neutral and function as a base layer the user can build on with the dsp functions . So in isolation they will necessarily sound quite dull .


----------



## Lolito

gikigill said:


> So you're implying that RME don't know what they are doing?



no, not at all, more like the very opposite. And still though, their product, if you remove the features and the quality and the guarantee, basically sounds like any other decent AKM dac or 1/4 the price. The denafrips in particular, measures very very well, and everyone who compared it, says it has more depth, more 3d presentation of the sound, has anyone compared it and can comment about this simple comparison I asked about instead of going by the branches?

I would not say flat and neutral is dull, but sound and music in particular, are special... and people who owned both, aparently, the rme is collecting dust, apparently, they say 
those who have both!!!! the ones who have the rme but not the ares 2, of course, those people they say that the rme is better than madonna in the 80's, the ones who have the RME but not the ares 2 say the RME is the best ever audio tool possible ant the very best ever price... those who have both say **** the RME sound.


----------



## gikigill

Dogmatrix said:


> The amp and dac sections in the RME are designed to be neutral and function as a base layer the user can build on with the dsp functions . So in isolation they will necessarily sound quite dull .



It might be dull but that's what it is. The RME is not supposed to humour our feelings, it's supposed to present us the most accurate information.

The extra tweaking is what sets the RME apart and you can season the sound to your tweaking. The tweaking is a reflection of the RMEs Professional lineage.


----------



## gikigill

Lolito said:


> no, not at all, more like the very opposite. And still though, their product, if you remove the features and the quality and the guarantee, basically sounds like any other decent AKM dac or 1/4 the price. The denafrips in particular, measures very very well, and everyone who compared it, says it has more depth, more 3d presentation of the sound, has anyone compared it and can comment about this simple comparison I asked about instead of going by the branches?
> 
> I would not say flat and neutral is dull, but sound and music in particular, are special... and people who owned both, aparently, the rme is collecting dust, apparently, they say
> those who have both!!!! the ones who have the rme but not the ares 2, of course, those people they say that the rme is better than madonna in the 80's, the ones who have the RME but not the ares 2 say the RME is the best ever audio tool possible ant the very best ever price... those who have both say **** the RME sound.



I don't listen to others opinions, I listen to the actual DAC and having extensively listened to the Ares and the Soekris, it sounds like any other R2R Dac. 

I chose the Bifrost over the Ares.


----------



## Lolito

Ares 2 is the new flavour of the month bro. Simple Ares it's now very pasé, totally passé actually. Ares 1 was oversampling by default aparently.... Ares 2 is the new black. Hard to be able to compare these days.


----------



## creed2

what are you talking about Lolito I'm lost


----------



## Mkoll

Can anyone offer comparisons of the DAC section of the RME ADI-2 (new version with AKM4493) with the Schiit Bifrost 2? I have a Bifrost 2 and I'm considering the ADI-2 as a DAC for its feature list, but I'd like to know more about its basic sonic character vs the Bifrost 2.

Thanks.


----------



## Dogmatrix

gikigill said:


> It might be dull but that's what it is. The RME is not supposed to humour our feelings, it's supposed to present us the most accurate information.
> 
> The extra tweaking is what sets the RME apart and you can season the sound to your tweaking. The tweaking is a reflection of the RMEs Professional lineage.


Thanks for the rewrite but that is what I said


----------



## Wladimir

Lolito said:


> Exactly, and this dac measures very very well, and the features are amazing, and you can feel this is german product, not chinese, whis will last, and it has no audiphile bull, and all things considered, the price is low. But the sound is really nothing better than a 140$ topping E30. Now it has proper XLR, it has headphone amp... great device, but soudns just like any other good current delta sigma dac, nothing more than that really. My 100$ current dac do that already. The 650$ denafrips ARES 2 is supposed to be way better than this RME in sound quality. it has more depth in the sound, more natural, and more 3D. This or the topping or most delta sigma have a 2D presentation, a wall of sound, but flattish. Chord is different, denafrips also different, better.



This I can assure you that ADI-2 doesn't sound like any ordinary 100-200$ chi-fi DAC. I've lived with some of them before and it's SIGNIFICANT step up. And not talking about any measurements, but actual music coming out of it. Are you talking from personal experience? Because if you have different personal experience, then your soundchain must be bottlenecked somewhere else.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Mkoll said:


> Can anyone offer comparisons of the DAC section of the RME ADI-2 (new version with AKM4493) with the Schiit Bifrost 2? I have a Bifrost 2 and I'm considering the ADI-2 as a DAC for its feature list, but I'd like to know more about its basic sonic character vs the Bifrost 2.
> 
> Thanks.


No, I haven't heard the schiit but the RME is killer for anywhere near the price. It is incredibly musical and has parametric EQ, a complicated but power UI with a real display, and it supports DSD. I think you're going to have to listen side by side for yourself unless you see the feature set as a worthy upgrade.

Hello @Wladimir


----------



## Louisiana

I'm currently comparing an ADI2 with the M400 ...


----------



## Slaphead

Lolito said:


> no, not at all, more like the very opposite. And still though, their product, if you remove the features and the quality and the guarantee, *basically sounds like any other decent AKM dac or 1/4 the price.* The denafrips in particular, measures very very well, and everyone who compared it, says it has more depth, more 3d presentation of the sound, has anyone compared it and can comment about this simple comparison I asked about instead of going by the branches?
> 
> I would not say flat and neutral is dull, but sound and music in particular, are special... and people who owned both, aparently, the rme is collecting dust, apparently, they say
> those who have both!!!! the ones who have the rme but not the ares 2, of course, those people they say that the rme is better than madonna in the 80's, the ones who have the RME but not the ares 2 say the RME is the best ever audio tool possible ant the very best ever price... those who have both say **** the RME sound.



Then go buy something cheaper.

You are right to a certain extent in that a DAC, at least a modern one, is likely to have the least effect on your system compare to headphones, speakers, or less significantly amps.

I bought the RME because it offered the features that I needed, as well as a good sound quality. I needed a DAC that would act as a pre-amp with USB, optical and coaxial digital inputs, with balanced XLR connections for my monitors. It does the job perfectly, in fact more than perfectly. and this is the older version with the 4490 chip.

With DACs these days the feature set is honestly more important that any slight, and I mean slight, differences in sound signatures.


----------



## arielext

The ADI-2 DAC fs is perhaps the best device I ever bought. From all the things I have in my audio chain this is my end-game DAC. I still don't use half the features it offers and do not see any reason to change DAC any time, soon or late.


----------



## oqvist

arielext said:


> The ADI-2 DAC fs is perhaps the best device I ever bought. From all the things I have in my audio chain this is my end-game DAC. I still don't use half the features it offers and do not see any reason to change DAC any time, soon or late.


Seeing your sig have by by any chance listened to the gjallarhorn as well on it? 

I came here to ask though anymore find the powersupply adapter making a poor connection or something? I need to rotate it and fiddle with it like quite a bit before it powers. But then it never disconnects or anything. Not sure what is going on if it´s a bad connection or if there is some power regulation that make it not get powered the first seconds or so unless you rotate it? It was this when new and now I relocated it a few times and every time it´s like it don´t get a solid connection unless I twist it around a bit. But then it works without a hitch.


----------



## arielext

oqvist said:


> Seeing your sig have by by any chance listened to the gjallarhorn as well on it?
> 
> I came here to ask though anymore find the powersupply adapter making a poor connection or something? I need to rotate it and fiddle with it like quite a bit before it powers. But then it never disconnects or anything. Not sure what is going on if it´s a bad connection or if there is some power regulation that make it not get powered the first seconds or so unless you rotate it? It was this when new and now I relocated it a few times and every time it´s like it don´t get a solid connection unless I twist it around a bit. But then it works without a hitch.


I did but my Gjallarhorn was messed up during transit. Magni and Vali like the neutral RME as well. One day I know if Thror or Thekk feel the same


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## Lolito

Slaphead said:


> Then go buy something cheaper.
> 
> You are right to a certain extent in that a DAC, at least a modern one, is likely to have the least effect on your system compare to headphones, speakers, or less significantly amps.
> 
> ...


I can certainly agree with that. One question; if you play DSD via the RME and studio monitor speakers, the volume knob still works or it's fixed at max volume with DSD on the RME? thanks!!


----------



## oqvist

arielext said:


> I did but my Gjallarhorn was messed up during transit. Magni and Vali like the neutral RME as well. One day I know if Thror or Thekk feel the same


Ah yes I read about that. Do you have a new one on the way or are you saving up for the Thror or Thekk


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## frogmeat69

oqvist said:


> Seeing your sig have by by any chance listened to the gjallarhorn as well on it?
> 
> I came here to ask though anymore find the powersupply adapter making a poor connection or something? I need to rotate it and fiddle with it like quite a bit before it powers. But then it never disconnects or anything. Not sure what is going on if it´s a bad connection or if there is some power regulation that make it not get powered the first seconds or so unless you rotate it? It was this when new and now I relocated it a few times and every time it´s like it don´t get a solid connection unless I twist it around a bit. But then it works without a hitch.


The adapter is a locking plug, you push and turn it to lock it into the back of the RME, and it will not come out.


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## gimmeheadroom (Oct 18, 2020)

Lolito said:


> I can certainly agree with that. One question; if you play DSD via the RME and studio monitor speakers, the volume knob still works or it's fixed at max volume with DSD on the RME? thanks!!


Two choices:

1. Pure DSD mode. It's fixed output mode at 0 dB. You will need to turn the speakers all the way down and use their volume control.
2. DSD => PCM mode. You can control the volume at the DAC and you have EQ and other options.


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## oqvist

frogmeat69 said:


> The adapter is a locking plug, you push and turn it to lock it into the back of the RME, and it will not come out.


Hmm have not manage to lock mine. It goes all the way in so how is that possible?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Just look at the plug. If it has a lug you're not using it correctly.

If it doesn't have a lug then either RME changed the plug or you're using the wrong A/C adapter.


----------



## oqvist

gimmeheadroom said:


> Just look at the plug. If it has a lug you're not using it correctly.
> 
> If it doesn't have a lug then either RME changed the plug or you're using the wrong A/C adapter.


Ah yes that is why you have to rotate it lol never seen those as they are in the same color


----------



## Lolito

gimmeheadroom said:


> Two choices:
> 
> 1. Pure DSD mode. It's fixed output mode at 0 dB. You will need to turn the speakers all the way down and use their volume control.
> 2. DSD => PCM mode. You can control the volume at the DAC and you have EQ and other options.



Great, thanks a lot for your help, this means that to hear DSD properly, you need a preamp for my actieve speakers, meaning a headphone amp with pre amp would be required in this case, would be a great solution for this, meaning, the headphone amp+dac advantages are gone for DSD playback... meaning a headphone amp+dac loose interested for my case since will need a pre amp, meaning, bye bye RME or dx7 pro, hello Denafrips Ares2 with an A90 for example, of keep the atom meanwhile...

You can learn a lot by researching here before spending the money, it's very expensive to learn first hand, much better price to learn second hand, from other people experience. If you wait and research, you save a lot of money. I would be already in my 4th dac if it wasn't for the internet.


----------



## Lolito

arielext said:


> The ADI-2 DAC fs is perhaps the best device I ever bought. From all the things I have in my audio chain this is my end-game DAC. I still don't use half the features it offers and do not see any reason to change DAC any time, soon or late.



Well, try DSD, you will like it even more, but then again, you can't adjust volume, quite a facepalm really if you ask me. But apparently all dacs have thsi problem, you need a preamp, even with headphone amps+DACS... Thing is, headphone amp+dacs, have just one volume knob, and that volume knob is not a potentiometer, it's a digital volume rocker, great, digital is more precise, no channel unbalance... but the problem is that with dsd digital volume is disabled in all dacs, you need an analog volume knob, and all (most) headphone amp+dac have a digital knob... Shame... I was hopping to have my powered speakers connected straight to a dac like this, now gotta run cables to a preamp and then to the speakers, that takes away transparency in the sound...

any affordable dac+headphoen amp with analog volume knob, or hybrid, or mixed or two volume knobs??


----------



## ok computer

You can use the digital volume control in HQplayer to control the volume for dsd direct playback.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lolito said:


> Great, thanks a lot for your help, this means that to hear DSD properly, you need a preamp for my actieve speakers, meaning a headphone amp with pre amp would be required in this case, would be a great solution for this, meaning, the headphone amp+dac advantages are gone for DSD playback... meaning a headphone amp+dac loose interested for my case since will need a pre amp, meaning, bye bye RME or dx7 pro, hello Denafrips Ares2 with an A90 for example, of keep the atom meanwhile...
> 
> You can learn a lot by researching here before spending the money, it's very expensive to learn first hand, much better price to learn second hand, from other people experience. If you wait and research, you save a lot of money. I would be already in my 4th dac if it wasn't for the internet.



One of the big problems of DSD is that it has to be decoded to do anything with it. This is because of DSD, not because of the RME DAC. Any DAC that supports DSD direct will have this issue. So most DACs today (btw including R2R) convert DSD to PCM. There is a conversion, yes, it is not ideal. But is there a loss of quality? It's not so easy to know.
I'm not sure the Aeres II is any different. I see it says native decoding but the RME also has native decoding.



Lolito said:


> Well, try DSD, you will like it even more, but then again, you can't adjust volume, quite a facepalm really if you ask me. But apparently all dacs have thsi problem, you need a preamp, even with headphone amps+DACS... Thing is, headphone amp+dacs, have just one volume knob, and that volume knob is not a potentiometer, it's a digital volume rocker, great, digital is more precise, no channel unbalance... but the problem is that with dsd digital volume is disabled in all dacs, you need an analog volume knob, and all (most) headphone amp+dac have a digital knob... Shame... I was hopping to have my powered speakers connected straight to a dac like this, now gotta run cables to a preamp and then to the speakers, that takes away transparency in the sound...
> 
> any affordable dac+headphoen amp with analog volume knob, or hybrid, or mixed or two volume knobs??


Well the easy answer is to get powered speakers with volume control or use a preamp in the middle as you said.


----------



## Slaphead

Lolito said:


> I can certainly agree with that. One question; if you play DSD via the RME and studio monitor speakers, the volume knob still works or it's fixed at max volume with DSD on the RME? thanks!!



Nope, not if you play pure DSD. To be able to use the volume control the DSD will need to be internally converted to PCM . But I have to ask why the hell anybody would want to playback DSD - it's a terrible playback format. It's absolutely fantastic as an archive format as it can withstand quite a bit of data loss without the sound quality being perceptibly affected whereas PCM can't. However as a playback format it sucks big time.

If you want to keep your music as pristine as possible then by all means convert it to DSD as a backup and then if your PCM file suffers a glitch you can always convert back from the DSD copy.

Unless you have some rare acoustic recording where everything was captured direct to DSD via an analog mixing desk, then you're listening to PCM, even if it's in a DSD format.


----------



## Matias

The only reason I see to use pure DSD, bypassing the ADI-2 volume and DSP goodies, is if one is using HQPlayer for upsampling.


----------



## sabloke (Oct 18, 2020)

Pure DSD to speakers? What speakers, some $250k a pair exotics detail monsters that allow you to discern between PCM and DSD? If that's you gear, why would you ever worry about humble RME gear?


----------



## Mkoll

Does the ADI-2 have the ability to store EQ profiles and switch to them via the remote? For example, could I make an EQ profile for a headphone, save it, and switch to it with a click of the remote? How many profiles can be saved and recalled this way?


----------



## Lolito

Slaphead said:


> Nope, not if you play pure DSD. To be able to use the volume control the DSD will need to be internally converted to PCM . But I have to ask why the hell anybody would want to playback DSD - it's a terrible playback format. It's absolutely fantastic as an archive format as it can withstand quite a bit of data loss without the sound quality being perceptibly affected whereas PCM can't. However as a playback format it sucks big time.
> 
> If you want to keep your music as pristine as possible then by all means convert it to DSD as a backup and then if your PCM file suffers a glitch you can always convert back from the DSD copy.
> 
> Unless you have some rare acoustic recording where everything was captured direct to DSD via an analog mixing desk, then you're listening to PCM, even if it's in a DSD format.



The thing goes like this my dear: there are some bands out there, few, that released some of their work in DSD... If it's a 90's band, it is same as cd pretty much, sounds the same. If it's something like, for example Dire Straits Communique album, released in SACD in 2019, DSD, that thing boy, sounds so good that you crap on your pants compared to Red book. You crap in your pants when you compare it, when you hear the difference you think: Oh crap, so I have to spend 5000$ in a dac to hear pretty much no difference, and just by downloading this album in pure real good DSD quality, I just crap on my pants and now my rrousers are all brown!!! holy fricking sheet....


I use pure DSD because it's the best thing ever after sliced bread, its transient times are better than cd, even better than vinyl, the detail is amazing, truly, the instrument separation, the space between instruments. It sounds much better than Red book, or even 24/96. It seems to much faster, in some albums, of course. There are for example hendrix albums in DSD... they are the best digitalization of that album, but still not gonna make magic, and vinyl there sounds better. Some rolling stones albums, really good in dsd, better than hi res pcm. But then most SACD originally recorded analog, those sound awesome in DSD. That's why DSD (SACD) got so popular in japan, cause the japanese know good their crap.

The source is where everything starts from, if you can improve it from free, well, nothing much more to say about it. 

This is about DSD, not MQA, MQA is crap.


----------



## Lolito

Download Depeche Mode Violator Album, in DSD. Download Dire Straits Communique album mobile fidelity 2019 SACD DSD version. Hear them, then come back, look at your trousers, and tell me what colour they are. That will answer your question of why to use pure DSD, LOL.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I have hundreds of SACD rips. DSD direct to a headamp works fine.



Mkoll said:


> Does the ADI-2 have the ability to store EQ profiles and switch to them via the remote? For example, could I make an EQ profile for a headphone, save it, and switch to it with a click of the remote? How many profiles can be saved and recalled this way?


I can't remember but I think so. You can download the manual from the RME site.


----------



## 524419 (Oct 19, 2020)

gikigill said:


> RME folks themselves don't advocate power supplies as they believe the stock one is pretty high quality and power supplies wont make any noticeable difference.
> 
> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28734
> 
> https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27006


Either they are lying, or they haven't experimented enough.
I have it connected to a deep cycle battery via 16 gauge Copper foil cables, and it sounds quite a bit better (lowers distortion by quite a bit). 20 gauge Solid copper sounds grainy compared to copper foil power cables (DIY). The stock power adapter is extremely lacking to say the least. As far as I am concerned, it is cheap junk.

ADD: I know this will annoy a lot of scientists On this forum, but honestly, give it a try before you start to knock it.


----------



## gikigill

Diet Kokaine said:


> Either they are lying, or they haven't experimented enough.
> I have it connected to a deep cycle battery via 16 gauge Copper foil cables, and it sounds quite a bit better (lowers distortion by quite a bit). 20 gauge Solid copper sounds grainy compared to copper foil power cables (DIY). The stock power adapter is extremely lacking to say the least. As far as I am concerned, it is cheap junk.
> 
> ADD: I know this will annoy a lot of scientists On this forum, but honestly, give it a try before you start to knock it.



I have experimented with 3 different power supplies myself, both linear and switched. The RME has a noise floor so low you would have to listen at 115+ db to discern any difference, at which point your transducers will be producing more distortion than any battery/power supply. You don't hear power cables since even the cheapest DAC has a filtering stage such as Schiits "comboburrito" filter and the custom filter "designed and built by by SABRE 90XX engineers" Resnoessence Herus and Concero HD DACs.

You read that right, the Resnoessence DACs with 4x filters were made by the very folks who designed and made the SABRE 90XX chips so I would say they know a thing or two about DACs no to mention the 5x filters used by RME.

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/resonessence2/3.html

If the distortion you are hearing is audible, you have a bigger problem than the power supply considering the RMEs THD/IMD specs and half of inaudible distortion is still inaudible.


----------



## Lolito

Diet Kokaine said:


> Either they are lying, or they haven't experimented enough.
> I have it connected to a deep cycle battery via 16 gauge Copper foil cables, and it sounds quite a bit better (lowers distortion by quite a bit). 20 gauge Solid copper sounds grainy compared to copper foil power cables (DIY). The stock power adapter is extremely lacking to say the least. As far as I am concerned, it is cheap junk.
> 
> ADD: I know this will annoy a lot of scientists On this forum, but honestly, give it a try before you start to knock it.



I think scientists are actually more annoying than that, negating everything. A wallwart can't be as good as a big toroidal linear power supply, like the one in the Denafrips ARES 2, which makes me thing they should make a cheaper one to have a rme competitor, ut at half the price.


----------



## Mkoll

gimmeheadroom said:


> I have hundreds of SACD rips. DSD direct to a headamp works fine.
> 
> 
> I can't remember but I think so. You can download the manual from the RME site.


I checked out the manual, but it isn't clear about whether it can store EQ presets. I'll ask RME directly if no one here knows.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Mkoll said:


> I checked out the manual, but it isn't clear about whether it can store EQ presets. I'll ask RME directly if no one here knows.



You missed section 13?

"Load or store up to 20 different EQ settings." 

There is also a video from RME on YouTube on how to do this. Very helpful and easy.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> You missed section 13?
> 
> "Load or store up to 20 different EQ settings."
> 
> There is also a video from RME on YouTube on how to do this. Very helpful and easy.


I think the question was whether they can be recalled from the remote.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lolito said:


> I think scientists are actually more annoying than that, negating everything. A wallwart can't be as good as a big toroidal linear power supply, like the one in the Denafrips ARES 2, which makes me thing they should make a cheaper one to have a rme competitor, ut at half the price.



Clearly, a big transformer is "better" than a switching PSU if money, weight, and heat are no object. RME's argument seems to be that from a practical standpoint, modern switching PSU design is "good enough" that it does not introduce audible noise in their DAC.

I'm definitely a fan of overkill power supplies and I'm willing to pay for them. But it still may be splitting hairs to roll PSUs with the RME.


----------



## realmassy

Diet Kokaine said:


> ...it sounds quite a bit better (lowers distortion by quite a bit).


Impressive that your ears could distinguish a lower level of distortion...


----------



## KneeDeep

CaptainFantastic said:


> You missed section 13?
> 
> "Load or store up to 20 different EQ settings."
> 
> There is also a video from RME on YouTube on how to do this. Very helpful and easy.


Their videos have been referenced by me so many times to utilize the features this DAC offers.


----------



## Mkoll

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think the question was whether they can be recalled from the remote.


Yes that's right: can the EQ settings be recalled with the remote? If so, how many?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Mkoll said:


> Yes that's right: can the EQ settings be recalled with the remote? If so, how many?


I'm sorry, I can't remember and I can't get to my gear. I think you can program the keys to do whatever you want but I'm not sure if you can get it to scroll through the EQ memory or select a specific one. I do believe you can turn EQ off or on which I used the remote to AB settings on a pair of Fostex headphones.


----------



## frogmeat69 (Oct 19, 2020)

Diet Kokaine said:


> *Either they are lying,* or they haven't experimented enough.
> I have it connected to a deep cycle battery via 16 gauge Copper foil cables, and it sounds quite a bit better (lowers distortion by quite a bit). 20 gauge Solid copper sounds grainy compared to copper foil power cables (DIY). The stock power adapter is extremely lacking to say the least. As far as I am concerned, it is cheap junk.
> 
> ADD: I know this will annoy a lot of scientists On this forum, but honestly, give it a try before you start to knock it.


Yeah, they lie about the psu because they secretly don't want the DAC to sound good,   .


----------



## Marutks

Mkoll said:


> Does the ADI-2 have the ability to store EQ profiles and switch to them via the remote? For example, could I make an EQ profile for a headphone, save it, and switch to it with a click of the remote? How many profiles can be saved and recalled this way?



Yes, it works, I just tried.  You can load up to 4 profiles via the remote.


----------



## 524419 (Oct 19, 2020)

Nothing I am saying is hypothetical.
I have a $15K plus stereo sound system that this DAC is hooked up to, and I have confirmed this with about 5 of my friends. They all hear it as clear as day.
You are free to believe whatever you guys want to believe, I have the old power supply, and plugging it in takes 5 seconds..... it is pure junk compared to this battery setup.


----------



## Lolito

Diet Kokaine said:


> Nothing I am saying is hypothetical.
> I have a $15K plus stereo sound system that this DAC is hooked up to, and I have confirmed this with about 5 of my friends. They all hear it as clear as day.
> You are free to believe whatever you guys want to believe, I have the old power supply, and plugging it in takes 5 seconds..... it is pure junk compared to this battery setup.



I trust you, nowadays the whole measurements has gone wild. I did not trust the whole cable thing, cause it seemed really stupid, until I swapped the 1€ iem cables for a 10€ one, it sounded cleaner, better. These people all the time with the same "show me a scientific probe"... they are like flatlandists. Show me a probe that the earth is round... yeah sure...

Not sure what psu the rme needs, but for dac's that need usb power, there are in china now linear power supplies for 50$ shipped, for less than 99USD you can get a good linear power supply. It will make no audible difference though, that is also true. If you want a better sounding dac and you are thingking about improving the psu, maybe getter get a r2r dac better. This is just a ton of features into a cheap delta sigma dac.


----------



## 524419 (Oct 19, 2020)

Lolito said:


> I trust you, nowadays the whole measurements has gone wild. I did not trust the whole cable thing, cause it seemed really stupid, until I swapped the 1€ iem cables for a 10€ one, it sounded cleaner, better. These people all the time with the same "show me a scientific probe"... they are like flatlandists. Show me a probe that the earth is round... yeah sure...
> 
> Not sure what psu the rme needs, but for dac's that need usb power, there are in china now linear power supplies for 50$ shipped, for less than 99USD you can get a good linear power supply. It will make no audible difference though, that is also true. If you want a better sounding dac and you are thingking about improving the psu, maybe getter get a r2r dac better. This is just a ton of features into a cheap delta sigma dac.


Yeah the whole measurements camp is extremely out of touch. I am beginning to think they prefer sheet music to actual music.
I had the battery and the copper foil laying around, and made the entire setup for about 10 dollars, ( I am good with soldering stuff)
The best thing to do is to listen for yourself....My stereo system is extremely high resolution, so changes in PSU are incredibly easy to discern.
My DAC also has the stock capacitors swapped out for higher quality ones.


----------



## Slaphead

Lolito said:


> The thing goes like this my dear: there are some bands out there, few, that released some of their work in DSD... If it's a 90's band, it is same as cd pretty much, sounds the same. If it's something like, for example Dire Straits Communique album, released in SACD in 2019, DSD, that thing boy, sounds so good that you crap on your pants compared to Red book. You crap in your pants when you compare it, when you hear the difference you think: Oh crap, so I have to spend 5000$ in a dac to hear pretty much no difference, and just by downloading this album in pure real good DSD quality, I just crap on my pants and now my rrousers are all brown!!! holy fricking sheet....
> 
> 
> I use pure DSD because it's the best thing ever after sliced bread, its transient times are better than cd, even better than vinyl, the detail is amazing, truly, the instrument separation, the space between instruments. It sounds much better than Red book, or even 24/96. It seems to much faster, in some albums, of course. There are for example hendrix albums in DSD... they are the best digitalization of that album, but still not gonna make magic, and vinyl there sounds better. Some rolling stones albums, really good in dsd, better than hi res pcm. But then most SACD originally recorded analog, those sound awesome in DSD. That's why DSD (SACD) got so popular in japan, cause the japanese know good their crap.
> ...



Ok, two things, or more to the point one thing and then everything else

First thing: I am not your dear, you condescending pillock

Everything else: Remaster


----------



## gimmeheadroom

If I can get the right connector I could try this. I have several linear bench supplies.

What I don't have is rare-earth bronze impregnated coaxial connectors, diamond encrusted volume adjustment pots, or the borosilicate cobalt knobs needed to take it the rest of the way. So I will probably not even try it.

PSU rolling is the new cableism. Good problems to have, fellas.


----------



## Light - Man (Oct 20, 2020)

BTW, my experience with battery powered power supplies has been positive, I have been doing it for many years. Car batteries as well as smaller burglar alarm panel batteries are good options for people who know how to connect them safely.

However I don't have the ADI 2 and am very unlikely to ever get one.


----------



## gikigill

frogmeat69 said:


> Yeah, they lie about the psu because they secretly don't want the DAC to sound good,   .



What do they know about DAC and power filtration, it's not like they have designed a dozen or so.

The fact that Rupert Neve doesn't use this mumbo jumbo power supply tells me all I need to know.


----------



## Lolito

Slaphead said:


> Ok, two things, or more to the point one thing and then everything else
> 
> First thing: I am not your dear, you condescending pillock
> 
> Everything else: Remaster



Of course my dear, whatever you say, I love you so much!!


----------



## Lolito

gimmeheadroom said:


> Clearly, a big transformer is "better" than a switching PSU if money, weight, and heat are no object. RME's argument seems to be that from a practical standpoint, modern switching PSU design is "good enough" that it does not introduce audible noise in their DAC.
> 
> I'm definitely a fan of overkill power supplies and I'm willing to pay for them. But it still may be splitting hairs to roll PSUs with the RME.



I bet the RME psu, switch one is great, better than many linear, and surely not audible. But for many other cheap dac's this knowledge is very useful, for example the topping e30, 130$, comes with no psu directly. So the owner has to decide which one to use, or a battery, or a phone charging block, or a cheap linear one from china... and then again, which one of the linear ones is better quality??? is there a thread for chinese linear power supplies in this website?

If power supplies didn't matter... every decent device has a big toroidal psu, i bet it always matters.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lolito said:


> I bet the RME psu, switch one is great, better than many linear, and surely not audible. But for many other cheap dac's this knowledge is very useful, for example the topping e30, 130$, comes with no psu directly. So the owner has to decide which one to use, or a battery, or a phone charging block, or a cheap linear one from china... and then again, which one of the linear ones is better quality??? is there a thread for chinese linear power supplies in this website?
> 
> If power supplies didn't matter... every decent device has a big toroidal psu, i bet it always matters.


An el-cheapo device needs a lot cleaner power than a device designed and built to work properly to reject noise. On paper, everything matters. In practice, not so much.

Not sure what you meant by the last sentence. Sure power supplies matter but it's like anything else. Once you get the power regulated enough and clean enough to meet the engineering requirements anything else is inaudible = waste of money = more expensive product.

You have two amplifiers, one has S/N 120 dB and the other has S/N 123 dB. All else equal, which one sounds better? We don't know, because noise is already inaudible at -120 dB.


----------



## lazner

I just got myself RME ADI-2 DAC FS, few hours before the country (CZ) goes into full lockdown. The DAC is simply awesome. Dead silent background, great resolution, great dynamics. More musical than my Roland and Yamaha DAC's I use for music production. I am very happy I got one. Looks like a fun night ahead.


----------



## Lolito

gimmeheadroom said:


> An el-cheapo device needs a lot cleaner power than a device designed and built to work properly to reject noise. On paper, everything matters. In practice, not so much.
> 
> Not sure what you meant by the last sentence. Sure power supplies matter but it's like anything else. Once you get the power regulated enough and clean enough to meet the engineering requirements anything else is inaudible = waste of money = more expensive product.
> 
> You have two amplifiers, one has S/N 120 dB and the other has S/N 123 dB. All else equal, which one sounds better? We don't know, because noise is already inaudible at -120 dB.



Well, you can always fake reality and then express it nicely, it will still be fake; There are very expensive dacs, and very cheap ones, sure. But every single expensive audio stuff has a big toroidal transformer, why? because it sounds better in a blind test, period. If it's audible it will not be so low as you indicate. Depends also on how loud you are going to reproduce the audio, speakers or headphones detail, etc, etc, and then another couple hundreds of etc more.

I am sure there are out there some 40€ power supplies that sound so much better than others of 927€, of course.


In other words, good linear power supply sounds better than avera switch power supply, period, that's it's. Stop arguing facts please. If it's worth it or not, or noticeable or not or...


----------



## Dogmatrix

Lolito said:


> Well, you can always fake reality and then express it nicely, it will still be fake; There are very expensive dacs, and very cheap ones, sure. But every single expensive audio stuff has a big toroidal transformer, why? because it sounds better in a blind test, period. If it's audible it will not be so low as you indicate. Depends also on how loud you are going to reproduce the audio, speakers or headphones detail, etc, etc, and then another couple hundreds of etc more.
> 
> I am sure there are out there some 40€ power supplies that sound so much better than others of 927€, of course.
> 
> ...


If your power supply sounds like anything its busted


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lolito said:


> Well, you can always fake reality and then express it nicely, it will still be fake; There are very expensive dacs, and very cheap ones, sure. But every single expensive audio stuff has a big toroidal transformer, why? because it sounds better in a blind test, period. If it's audible it will not be so low as you indicate. Depends also on how loud you are going to reproduce the audio, speakers or headphones detail, etc, etc, and then another couple hundreds of etc more.
> 
> I am sure there are out there some 40€ power supplies that sound so much better than others of 927€, of course.
> 
> ...


Again, I agree with you that over-engineered is better. But we don't know whether toroidal transformers are used in expensive gear because there is an audible difference or whether it's because people expect to get some value for their money. A DAC is something that has very low power requirements and a dacamp usually does not have much more requirements the power supply might not have much or any audible influence. 

RME S/N is already high enough and THD is low enough that noise and distortion are inaudible even with the switching power supply. Can you improve the numbers with a big linear power supply? Maybe. Can anybody hear the difference? No. Would some of us be happier with a linear power supply even if it made no difference? Yes.


----------



## Lolito

gimmeheadroom said:


> Can anybody hear the difference? No.



Wrong, lie, not true, do a blind A/B test instead of making up your bull and writing it here.


----------



## realmassy

^ have you actually done a ABX test using the RME with the stock PSU and with a linear one? And the confidence level was above 95%? That's great


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lolito said:


> Wrong, lie, not true, do a blind A/B test instead of making up your bull and writing it here.


I'll turn it around. Let's see some measurements. Maybe your testing is flawed or expectation bias is happening. Without seeing the charts it's just a wild claim


----------



## Lolito

gimmeheadroom said:


> I'll turn it around. Let's see some measurements. Maybe your testing is flawed or expectation bias is happening. Without seeing the charts it's just a wild claim


measurements, really? really??

measurements say: "German engineering is so bad, chinese engineering is so much better"

That's what measuremetnes say, so better forget about them and use your ears in a blind test.


----------



## Lolito

realmassy said:


> ^ have you actually done a ABX test using the RME with the stock PSU and with a linear one? And the confidence level was above 95%? That's great



no because I have no interest on delta sigma sound anymore, that saves me already 1000€ plus the power supply cost. I did tested it with other dacs and I could tell the differenceinstantly, you hear the electrical noise with some power bricks indeed. Sorry to confirm what it's been known for years, sorry. Apologies.


----------



## realmassy

No, thank you for confirming you’re giving opinions on something you never heard, it will help anyone reading this thread


----------



## Arniesb

Lolito said:


> no because I have no interest on delta sigma sound anymore, that saves me already 1000€ plus the power supply cost. I did tested it with other dacs and I could tell the differenceinstantly, you hear the electrical noise with some power bricks indeed. Sorry to confirm what it's been known for years, sorry. Apologies.


What makes delta sigma bad? Yes it have more jitter Than Chord dacs, but with great clocks with good source that would be not an issue. Ofc it dont have high distortion of r2r dacs that contribute to better sound according to many.


----------



## Lolito

Arniesb said:


> What makes delta sigma bad?



Who said is bad and where?


----------



## Arniesb

Lolito said:


> Who said is bad and where?





Lolito said:


> Who said is bad and where?


no because I have no interest on delta sigma sound anymore, that saves me already 1000€ plus the power supply cost.
I assumed you are sayin its bad in a sense or not to your liking.


----------



## Lolito

I have no interest on it, not said it is bad. Measures really well


----------



## Slaphead

Lolito said:


> I have no interest on it, not said it is bad. Measures really well



Then why are you here commenting on a delta sigma DAC when you have no interest for it, or for the principle upon which it works?

Maybe your time would be better spent trolling some other areas of the forum. Don't you agree?


----------



## betula (Oct 25, 2020)

Too much talk about Dac types. Delta-Sigma, R2R, FPGA... The whole implementation actually matters more than the type/starting square.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

How about we get back to talking about how great our units are compared to the competition.  I will start.

The other night I was listening with the RME and various headphones.  I started to think about the fact that I have no desire to upgrade.  This is an absolute first in my headfi journey.  Even the headphones I was using I was wonder about upgrades.  I know there is the chord RME comparison which has been addressed here.  I am curious about the comparison but not enough to let this unit go.  Then I was thinking... is there competition in this price category?   If not?  Where is everyone?  I seriously think this unit does not get enough love.  There are not a ton of reviews out there so I am thinking I found something special.  But seriously is it just a lack of advertising?  Where is everyone?


----------



## Cevisi

Its really hard when science meets in an area we enjoy artistic with our own expectations and preferences





Thats why i choose the rme it does the science part right and gives me the opportunity to color it for my taste


----------



## robm321

FullBlownEargasam said:


> How about we get back to talking about how great our units are compared to the competition.  I will start.
> 
> The other night I was listening with the RME and various headphones.  I started to think about the fact that I have no desire to upgrade.  This is an absolute first in my headfi journey.  Even the headphones I was using I was wonder about upgrades.  I know there is the chord RME comparison which has been addressed here.  I am curious about the comparison but not enough to let this unit go.  Then I was thinking... is there competition in this price category?   If not?  Where is everyone?  I seriously think this unit does not get enough love.  There are not a ton of reviews out there so I am thinking I found something special.  But seriously is it just a lack of advertising?  Where is everyone?



I think it's just the nature of things. New offerings get more attention. Some of the best offerings go unnoticed after awhile.


----------



## Wladimir

FullBlownEargasam said:


> How about we get back to talking about how great our units are compared to the competition.  I will start.
> 
> The other night I was listening with the RME and various headphones.  I started to think about the fact that I have no desire to upgrade.  This is an absolute first in my headfi journey.  Even the headphones I was using I was wonder about upgrades.  I know there is the chord RME comparison which has been addressed here.  I am curious about the comparison but not enough to let this unit go.  Then I was thinking... is there competition in this price category?   If not?  Where is everyone?  I seriously think this unit does not get enough love.  There are not a ton of reviews out there so I am thinking I found something special.  But seriously is it just a lack of advertising?  Where is everyone?


Exactly, my personal enjoyment of music with Meze 99C's was taken multiple levels up from any previous gear. It's mindblowing how this combo sounds, ADI-2 DAC is a dream come true


----------



## gikigill

FullBlownEargasam said:


> How about we get back to talking about how great our units are compared to the competition.  I will start.
> 
> The other night I was listening with the RME and various headphones.  I started to think about the fact that I have no desire to upgrade.  This is an absolute first in my headfi journey.  Even the headphones I was using I was wonder about upgrades.  I know there is the chord RME comparison which has been addressed here.  I am curious about the comparison but not enough to let this unit go.  Then I was thinking... is there competition in this price category?   If not?  Where is everyone?  I seriously think this unit does not get enough love.  There are not a ton of reviews out there so I am thinking I found something special.  But seriously is it just a lack of advertising?  Where is everyone?



RME is mostly into Pro audio therefore they are not advertising a lot in consumer channels and hence the relatively low popularity.

Mind you, the RME is very close to my personal endgame with its tweaking and features. Dont think any other DAC will match up in sound and features for this price.

Only of the few DAC/Amp combos that sound right off the bat with the notoriously difficult to power HD800. Its the quality not quantity in the HD800s case and this Teutonic combo covers all bases.


----------



## silvahr (Oct 24, 2020)

betula said:


> Too much talk about Dac types. Delta-Sigma, R2R, FPGA... The whole implementation actually matters more than the type/starting square. Silly but trendy example: it is like talking about races. Blacks are better than whites, whites are better than blacks. Colour/type is not the point. There are good and bad people in all races. It is exactly the same with Dac designs.



I agree with you.
When I seat down and start listening to music, I really don’t know and I don’t care what type of DAC is the one I’m using.
I want the best experience I can have in a global way since I am a music lover.
And with ADI-2 I get that.
No matter what HF I plug, I know I will be transported to the magical place.
I had a Chord Hugo 2 for 1.5 years and I don’t miss it. Sold my first ADI-2 and two months later I was buying another one.
Audeze LCD-2c and ADI-2 it’s the pair I aimed for all my life. I really don’t need anything else.
Can I get better? Of course but at what price? Worth that price? I don’t know and I don’t care because what I have fulfill all my requirements.


----------



## Slim1970

silvahr said:


> I agree with you.
> When I seat down and start listening to music, I really don’t know and I don’t care what type of DAC is the one I’m using.
> I want the best experience I can have in a global way since I am a music lover.
> And with ADI-2 I get that.
> ...


You are in a great place. I've been searching for this so called end game sound since I got into headphones. The RME is a great DAC and competes well with other top tier DACs. I applaud you for resisting the inch to upgrade because it is not easy.


----------



## silvahr (Oct 24, 2020)

Slim1970 said:


> You are in a great place. I've been searching for this so called end game sound since I got into headphones. The RME is a great DAC and competes well with other top tier DACs. I applaud you for resisting the inch to upgrade because it is not easy.



I'm not sure if "end game sound" exists.
For most of us this is an hobby. And like any other hobby, things are much more emotional than rational.
Until now I spent much more money with this hobby than I should.
I had many many equipments and started to have comparison points.
And now I have a more precise idea of what I like and what I don't (from this point of view, the money was well spent).
When I bought CH2 I couldn't believe my ears. Such a fantastic sound from such a small equipment. I didn't imagine it was possible.
But I think is much more expensive than I like and IMO has some flaws in usability.
So I sold it and tried some DAPs but I could't get the same enjoyment.
Then I tried the ADI-2. Another amazing surprise with the musicality and the dynamics.
And then I bought Audeze LCD-2c and all became obvious.
ADI-2 and LCD-2c is more or less the same price of CH2 and I'm getting the same levels of pleasure.
It's a solid combo and I don't have the itch of trying other gear.
I don't call it "end game sound" but fits all my needs and let me enjoy the music the way I always wanted.


----------



## Slim1970

silvahr said:


> I'm not sure if "end game sound" exists.
> For most of us this is an hobby. And like any other hobby, things are much more emotional than rational.
> Until now I spent much more money with this hobby than I should.
> I had many many equipments and started to have comparison points.
> ...


I had a similar path to find my preferred sound signature as well. I know I spent a lot more than I should have and unfortunately for me just about everything that I enjoyed was near TOTL. There are some jewels out there as I discovered on my journey. From amps, DAC’s, to headphones there are products that perform way above there price. I have a mixture of mid and upper gear because I’m an enthusiast and love great sound. 

The Hugo 2 is an amazing piece of kit. I like what you did in picking up a comparable DAC in the RME and a sweet sounding headphone in the LCD-2C’s for nearly the same price. The combo sound net you plenty of enjoyment. The RME’s headphone output is one of the best I’ve heard. From a feature standpoint the RME ADi-2 FS is almost unbeatable.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Wladimir said:


> Exactly, my personal enjoyment of music with Meze 99C's was taken multiple levels up from any previous gear. It's mindblowing how this combo sounds, ADI-2 DAC is a dream come true


Now thats what I am talking about.  With the RME you have so much room for headphone upgrades in the future.  I bet the RME is pulling out the best in the Meze.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

gikigill said:


> RME is mostly into Pro audio therefore they are not advertising a lot in consumer channels and hence the relatively low popularity.
> 
> Mind you, the RME is very close to my personal endgame with its tweaking and features. Dont think any other DAC will match up in sound and features for this price.
> 
> Only of the few DAC/Amp combos that sound right off the bat with the notoriously difficult to power HD800. Its the quality not quantity in the HD800s case and this Teutonic combo covers all bases.


I agree my HD800s don't sound right with the RME.  I use a dark voice connected to the RME for them.  With the tweaks in the RME it is a perfect combination for me.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

FullBlownEargasam said:


> How about we get back to talking about how great our units are compared to the competition.  I will start.
> 
> The other night I was listening with the RME and various headphones.  I started to think about the fact that I have no desire to upgrade.  This is an absolute first in my headfi journey.  Even the headphones I was using I was wonder about upgrades.  I know there is the chord RME comparison which has been addressed here.  I am curious about the comparison but not enough to let this unit go.  Then I was thinking... is there competition in this price category?   If not?  Where is everyone?  I seriously think this unit does not get enough love.  There are not a ton of reviews out there so I am thinking I found something special.  But seriously is it just a lack of advertising?  Where is everyone?



In the price category? I don't think there is any competition. RME is a pro audio company that just happened to put out something the hifi guys can use. They probably don't want to be mass market and get pushed into bluetooth, roon, and a bunch of other crap.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

silvahr said:


> I'm not sure if "end game sound" exists.
> For most of us this is an hobby. And like any other hobby, things are much more emotional than rational.
> Until now I spent much more money with this hobby than I should.
> I had many many equipments and started to have comparison points.
> ...



Yep the RME and LCD-2C is rather killer, fantastic pairing.



FullBlownEargasam said:


> Now thats what I am talking about.  With the RME you have so much room for headphone upgrades in the future.  I bet the RME is pulling out the best in the Meze.



The RME is a solid DAC. The amp is just not happening for high impedance dynamics. I don't consider that much of an issue, I have all my DACs running into amps. The only cans I use right out of the RME are HD 25s, LDC-2C, and Fostex. 



FullBlownEargasam said:


> I agree my HD800s don't sound right with the RME.  I use a dark voice connected to the RME for them.  With the tweaks in the RME it is a perfect combination for me.



Yep that's the way to do it.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> The RME is a solid DAC. The amp is just not happening for high impedance dynamics. I don't consider that much of an issue, I have all my DACs running into amps. The only cans I use right out of the RME are HD 25s, LDC-2C, and Fostex.



Fully agree. I run mine into an OTL tube amp. What solid state amps do you recommend?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> Fully agree. I run mine into an OTL tube amp. What solid state amps do you recommend?


On the low end of price, Meier Corda Jazz-ff is surprisingly good with HD 600 and does a great job with LCD-2C.
Going up in price the V280 is killer for just about everything. I have an ATROX V2 also but I can't compare it to the Violectric because they're not in the same place.


----------



## Wladimir

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Now thats what I am talking about.  With the RME you have so much room for headphone upgrades in the future.  I bet the RME is pulling out the best in the Meze.


Indeed indeed, never thought my 99's are that capable  This little machine is making me happy each and every day  Now onto saving for Empyreans


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

gimmeheadroom said:


> In the price category? I don't think there is any competition. RME is a pro audio company that just happened to put out something the hifi guys can use. They probably don't want to be mass market and get pushed into bluetooth, roon, and a bunch of other crap.


That is a great point.  If they were pushed into bluetooth that would be bad for all of us.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

gimmeheadroom said:


> On the low end of price, Meier Corda Jazz-ff is surprisingly good with HD 600 and does a great job with LCD-2C.
> Going up in price the V280 is killer for just about everything. I have an ATROX V2 also but I can't compare it to the Violectric because they're not in the same place.


The vioelectric is the only upgrade I am considering.  How does it change the RME sound and which cans have you found the best results?


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Wladimir said:


> Indeed indeed, never thought my 99's are that capable  This little machine is making me happy each and every day  Now onto saving for Empyreans


you and me both man.  You and me both


----------



## gikigill

Wladimir said:


> Indeed indeed, never thought my 99's are that capable  This little machine is making me happy each and every day  Now onto saving for Empyreans



Same here, got the RME and now lining up for the Empyreans.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

FullBlownEargasam said:


> The vioelectric is the only upgrade I am considering.  How does it change the RME sound and which cans have you found the best results?


My RME setup is either out the front headphone jack or into a Lyr 2. I haven't used the V280 with it, my V280 runs balanced off my Brooklyn DAC+ and is pretty much just for my Sennheisers, and LCD-3F once in while. I would say that you should expect the V280 will let the RME say what it has to say and not color it in any significant way. There is a big V280 thread, if you can't find it I'll post the link.


----------



## Steve Wilcox

Just wondering if anyone's tried the Ether 2s straight out of the RME?  They're a little harder to drive than my LCD 2Fs and ZMF VCs.  I currently use them on my PC via an Audioquest Cobalt and Rupert Neve RNHP.  I'd like to keep the setup as simple as possible. Do you think the RME on its own is likely to improve on the current setup?


----------



## Tuneslover (Oct 25, 2020)

Is anyone using the RME ADI-2 DAC with a tube amp?  Any recommendations?  My headphones are LCD-3, LCD-2C, HD650 & HE500.  Thanks.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Tuneslover said:


> Is anyone using the RME ADI-2 DAC with a tube amp?  Any recommendations?  My headphones are LCD-3, LCD-2C, HD650 & HE500.  Thanks.



Yes, it's a great combination.


----------



## Tuneslover

CaptainFantastic said:


> Yes, it's a great combination.


Which tube amp are you referencing?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Tuneslover said:


> Which tube amp are you referencing?



In my case an OTL amp, Woo Audio WA3, but this is good only with high impedance headphones. I have Sennheisers and a ZMF. But the WA6 works with all headphones.


----------



## incredulousity

Tuneslover said:


> Is anyone using the RME ADI-2 DAC with a tube amp?  Any recommendations?  My headphones are LCD-3, LCD-2C, HD650 & HE500.  Thanks.


Absolutely. It works great with my Feliks Euforia AE.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

It will work great with most or all tube amps, why not?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> It will work great with most or all tube amps, why not?



One observation: For me the RME by itself connected via USB provides a clean, zero-noise background irrespective of where the volume is at and what headphones I plug in. But when I connect the RME to the tube amps, a low level noise is audible when the volume is off. So I resorted to using optical to the RME and this takes me back to zero noise, even with the tube amps. Is this your experience too?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> One observation: For me the RME by itself connected via USB provides a clean, zero-noise background irrespective of where the volume is at and what headphones I plug in. But when I connect the RME to the tube amps, a low level noise is audible when the volume is off. So I resorted to using optical to the RME and this takes me back to zero noise, even with the tube amps. Is this your experience too?


Interesting but I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I always run my DACs in line out mode (0 dB). I have auto ref off. I wonder if auto ref is causing noise in your scenario.
I don't think I'm getting noise when the RME is not playing but I'll check it. May take a while...


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> Interesting but I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I always run my DACs in line out mode (0 dB). I have auto ref off. I wonder if auto ref is causing noise in your scenario.
> I don't think I'm getting noise when the RME is not playing but I'll check it. May take a while...



OK, thanks. What I mean is that there is some noise whether the volume is off or on at any level with no music playing. As soon as the music is playing it covers this faint background noise. It does this in auto-ref ON or OFF mode and goes away immediately when disconnecting USB from the RME. I will recheck this tonight.

By the way, line out mode at 0 dB would mean that I have almost zero play on the amp volume. So I use -10 dB on line out. Otherwise by 10 o'clock on the tube amp I would be destroying my ears (I think, I have to check again, but at -10 dB at least I can adjust up to 11-12 o'clock depending on the track). How do you manage this high volume thing? I don't have the amp on high gain or anything, it's a WA3 and my headphones are high impedance Sennheisers.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Oct 26, 2020)

CaptainFantastic said:


> OK, thanks. What I mean is that there is some noise whether the volume is off or on at any level with no music playing. As soon as the music is playing it covers this faint background noise. It does this in auto-ref ON or OFF mode and goes away immediately when disconnecting USB from the RME. I will recheck this tonight.
> 
> By the way, line out mode at 0 dB would mean that I have almost zero play on the amp volume. So I use -10 dB on line out. Otherwise by 10 o'clock on the tube amp I would be destroying my ears (I think, I have to check again, but at -10 dB at least I can adjust up to 11-12 o'clock depending on the track). How do you manage this high volume thing? I don't have the amp on high gain or anything, it's a WA3 and my headphones are high impedance Sennheisers.


I haven't noticed but I can check.

With the RME -> Lyr 2 for LCDs and the tubes I have and the amp on low gain it is pretty good. The range of volume is a minor problem for me on my Sennheiser setup. I have the V280 attenuated to -12 dB and there isn't a whole lot of room on the volume knob but it's still ok.

I prefer to use line out mode because in theory that's the best possible sound quality. Amps usually like to be driven hard and some do well at significantly more than the 2V standard (SE) or 5-something for balanced. The more clean signal the amp gets the better the output will sound. If there has to be attenuation somewhere, I think it should be at the amp rather than the source.

Edit: I just reread your post and now I'm starting to wonder maybe you just have noisy USB, especially since it doesn't happen with optical.


----------



## technobear

CaptainFantastic said:


> OK, thanks. What I mean is that there is some noise whether the volume is off or on at any level with no music playing. As soon as the music is playing it covers this faint background noise. It does this in auto-ref ON or OFF mode and goes away immediately when disconnecting USB from the RME. I will recheck this tonight.
> 
> By the way, line out mode at 0 dB would mean that I have almost zero play on the amp volume. So I use -10 dB on line out. Otherwise by 10 o'clock on the tube amp I would be destroying my ears (I think, I have to check again, but at -10 dB at least I can adjust up to 11-12 o'clock depending on the track). How do you manage this high volume thing? I don't have the amp on high gain or anything, it's a WA3 and my headphones are high impedance Sennheisers.


This noise is coming from the ground wire in the USB cable. It doesn't bother the RME but it will be present on the ground wire of the analogue interconnect. Clearly your valve amp is susceptible to this ground plain noise. The noise might be generated by the computer or it may be coming into the computer via the ground wire from the mains (from a badly behaved switching PSU perhaps). I fixed this problem with an iGalvanic3.0. Using optical is also a solution. There is nothing wrong with your RME and this noise is not created by the RME.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

technobear said:


> This noise is coming from the ground wire in the USB cable. It doesn't bother the RME but it will be present on the ground wire of the analogue interconnect. Clearly your valve amp is susceptible to this ground plain noise. The noise might be generated by the computer or it may be coming into the computer via the ground wire from the mains (from a badly behaved switching PSU perhaps). I fixed this problem with an iGalvanic3.0. Using optical is also a solution. There is nothing wrong with your RME and this noise is not created by the RME.



Thanks. Yes, I didn't think it was an RME issue at all. It is perfectly silent when not paired with the tube amp. I always did think the tube amp is more sensitive and picks up the noise being transmitted via USB from the PC. The RME must be designed to block this 100% when using its internal amp. Also, I am very happy using optical via a quality optical cable. I understand the RME has an excellent design for eliminating jitter, so I can't see any downsides to using optical given that I don't have any files of such high-res that it would create a limitation.


----------



## Tuneslover

CaptainFantastic said:


> By the way, line out mode at 0 dB would mean that I have almost zero play on the amp volume. So I use -10 dB on line out. Otherwise by 10 o'clock on the tube amp I would be destroying my ears (I think, I have to check again, but at -10 dB at least I can adjust up to 11-12 o'clock depending on the track). How do you manage this high volume thing? I don't have the amp on high gain or anything, it's a WA3 and my headphones are high impedance Sennheisers.


Fried Reim suggested that gain levels (DAC and AMP) should be set so that the Violectric V280 volume knob is around the 12:00 o'clock position to achieve a normal listening level.  I have experimented with the gain settings for the RME and found that I get the best sound when the RME's Ref Level is set to +13dBu (Auto Ref Level is set to OFF).

My RME's volume using XLR line out is set to a volume of -10dB.  In order to get the V280 volume to the 12:00 o'clock range I needed to set the V280 gain to -9dB which gives me a pretty decent volume knob range around the Noon setting.  Of course harder to drive headphones will have me turning it up higher closer to the 1:00 - 2:00 o'clock positions and naturally the easier to drive phones range from 10:00 - 11:00 o'clock.


----------



## cistercian

FullBlownEargasam said:


> How about we get back to talking about how great our units are compared to the competition.  I will start.
> 
> The other night I was listening with the RME and various headphones.  I started to think about the fact that I have no desire to upgrade.  This is an absolute first in my headfi journey.  Even the headphones I was using I was wonder about upgrades.  I know there is the chord RME comparison which has been addressed here.  I am curious about the comparison but not enough to let this unit go.  Then I was thinking... is there competition in this price category?   If not?  Where is everyone?  I seriously think this unit does not get enough love.  There are not a ton of reviews out there so I am thinking I found something special.  But seriously is it just a lack of advertising?  Where is everyone?



 This is where I am at. I won't upgrade until this unit explodes. It is remarkably capable and drives all of my phones perfectly. The flat response
  and adequate power combined with epic EQ/ bass and treble controls are end game for me. It is the best piece of audio gear I have ever owned.
 It is remarkable...and the frequency display looks cool as hell too. It has so much flexibility it is amazing. Other DACs are very poor feature wise compared
to the RME. Truly Epic grade. I am listening to it now...delicious!


----------



## PierreA

Tuneslover said:


> Which tube amp are you referencing?


In my case it works great both with my Woo Audio WA6-SE and also a great match with SinglePower SLAM PPX3.


----------



## elisiX

Tuneslover said:


> Fried Reim suggested that gain levels (DAC and AMP) should be set so that the Violectric V280 volume knob is around the 12:00 o'clock position to achieve a normal listening level.  I have experimented with the gain settings for the RME and found that I get the best sound when the RME's Ref Level is set to +13dBu (Auto Ref Level is set to OFF).
> 
> My RME's volume using XLR line out is set to a volume of -10dB.  In order to get the V280 volume to the 12:00 o'clock range I needed to set the V280 gain to -9dB which gives me a pretty decent volume knob range around the Noon setting.  Of course harder to drive headphones will have me turning it up higher closer to the 1:00 - 2:00 o'clock positions and naturally the easier to drive phones range from 10:00 - 11:00 o'clock.



Can confirm that I am using a similar setup with RME/V281 and I too set my V281 at 12 o'clock by adjusting the RME to these volume/auto ref settings.

It's such a brilliant versatile setup and as much as I have a desire to update (just because), it's not perfectly clear to me what i'd upgrade to. TT2, Moon 430HAD, etc.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Wladimir said:


> Indeed indeed, never thought my 99's are that capable  This little machine is making me happy each and every day  Now onto saving for Empyreans



Now try a pair of HD 25s out of your RME. Mind-boggling!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> OK, thanks. What I mean is that there is some noise whether the volume is off or on at any level with no music playing. As soon as the music is playing it covers this faint background noise. It does this in auto-ref ON or OFF mode and goes away immediately when disconnecting USB from the RME. I will recheck this tonight.
> 
> By the way, line out mode at 0 dB would mean that I have almost zero play on the amp volume. So I use -10 dB on line out. Otherwise by 10 o'clock on the tube amp I would be destroying my ears (I think, I have to check again, but at -10 dB at least I can adjust up to 11-12 o'clock depending on the track). How do you manage this high volume thing? I don't have the amp on high gain or anything, it's a WA3 and my headphones are high impedance Sennheisers.


I was looking at the menus on my Brooklyn and I found there is a trim function. I set it to -3 dB and I can listen to my LCD-3F at 12 o'clock on my V280 without blowing my brains out. I'll try it with some Sennheisers later.


----------



## rickydenim

Have still been looking at the ADI-2 FS v2 and came across a seller on ebay who is a dealer in Italy (apparently). Price over here in Australia is pretty crazy. Any issues I would need to consider when importing? Just need a plug adapter, same voltage here. Would be saving like $1k!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

rickydenim said:


> Have still been looking at the ADI-2 FS v2 and came across a seller on ebay who is a dealer in Italy (apparently). Price over here in Australia is pretty crazy. Any issues I would need to consider when importing? Just need a plug adapter, same voltage here. Would be saving like $1k!


Just make sure it's a legit seller.


----------



## technobear

rickydenim said:


> Have still been looking at the *ADI-2 FS v2 *...


Lazy writing? Or a completely different product: https://www.rme-audio.de/ADI-2-FS.html


----------



## rickydenim

technobear said:


> Lazy writing? Or a completely different product: https://www.rme-audio.de/ADI-2-FS.html


Sorry, lazy writing! Talking about the RME ADI- 2 DAC FS


----------



## CaptainFantastic (Nov 2, 2020)

rickydenim said:


> Have still been looking at the ADI-2 FS v2 and came across a seller on ebay who is a dealer in Italy (apparently). Price over here in Australia is pretty crazy. Any issues I would need to consider when importing? Just need a plug adapter, same voltage here. Would be saving like $1k!



I would buy from a reputable seller. Thomann sells it brand new for 945 euro. And be prepared to wait a bit. Because of the situation shipping can take a week or a month, make sure you have tracking on it.


----------



## Marutks

I paid £830 for a new RME ADI 2 DAC (  from Studiocare Professional Audio ltd  )


----------



## rickydenim

Marutks said:


> I paid £830 for a new RME ADI 2 DAC (  from Studiocare Professional Audio ltd  )


Thankyou! Actually can't believe how much cheaper this will be than going local. A no brainer now! Early Christmas present 😄


----------



## Matias

rickydenim said:


> Thankyou! Actually can't believe how much cheaper this will be than going local. A no brainer now! Early Christmas present 😄


Bought mine here:
https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/product-page/rme-adi-2-dac


----------



## CaptainFantastic

What happens if I connect amps to both Line Out outputs, RCA and XLR? Will both play at the same time if the amps are on?


----------



## Tuneslover

CaptainFantastic said:


> What happens if I connect amps to both Line Out outputs, RCA and XLR? Will both play at the same time if the amps are on?


I believe BOTH Line Outs (SE and XLR) will output from the RME.  Therefore I vote "YES".


----------



## zeny

Hey guys, how do you check if your adi 2 dac FS is the latest version with AK4493?


----------



## Cevisi

zeny said:


> Hey guys, how do you check if your adi 2 dac FS is the latest version with AK4493?


Remote controll


----------



## gimmeheadroom

zeny said:


> Hey guys, how do you check if your adi 2 dac FS is the latest version with AK4493?


It really doesn't matter, even according to the guys who made it.


----------



## arielext

CaptainFantastic said:


> What happens if I connect amps to both Line Out outputs, RCA and XLR? Will both play at the same time if the amps are on?


Both will play as long as Line Out is played. Both will be played at their respected level.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Is there much difference between the RME's (non-balanced) output and the balanced output of the TA-ZH1ES or other balanced amps?


----------



## PointyFox

Hinomotocho said:


> Is there much difference between the RME's (non-balanced) output and the balanced output of the TA-ZH1ES or other balanced amps?



Output impedance and power. It depends on the amp.


----------



## joshua9061

So is the difference between the RME versions just power output?


----------



## PointyFox

joshua9061 said:


> So is the difference between the RME versions just power output?



No.

Per RME:
*"The current version of the ADI-2 DAC comes with an extended remote control, a further improved DA conversion and an adapted analog output stage for even better noise and distortion values.

The updated ADI-2 DAC uses AKM's AK4493 in a special circuit variant developed by RME engineers that allows the chip to perform at its best. With noise levels of 123 dBA, distortion less than -120 dB, or THD+N of -116 dB, the device delivers outstanding measured values. Even the IEM output, with -118 dBu already the world's lowest noise headphone output, improves to a sensational -121 dBu. In addition, there is 4 dB of digital headroom, so that even high intersample peaks do not produce any audible distortion. Finally, the device now also offers a clear reserve in volume setting. +2.5 dB result in a still undistorted analog output signal.

All these improvements are completely transparent in the previous menu navigation. There are no changes in operation, features and behavior compared to the predecessor, which is why neither appearance nor name have changed. The only difference: with 'Low Dispersion' another digital filter is available for selection. Explanations for this filter can be found in the detailed manual of the ADI-2 DAC."*


----------



## Cyrusis

Hey everyone.

Have a question I'm hoping you can help with as I'm having no luck figuring it out myself.

I currently have a ADI-2 PRO FS and a tube amp. I'd like to plug my computer into the ADI-2 PRO FS, then have the amp convert that to analog and send it to my amplifier which has RCAs. I have purchased a Male TS x2 to Male RCA cable, plugged them in, then set the ADI-2 to "Dig Thru" mode, but no sounds is being sent out of the amp (Ampsandsound Mogwai).

What am I missing? Thank you for your help!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cyrusis said:


> Hey everyone.
> 
> Have a question I'm hoping you can help with as I'm having no luck figuring it out myself.
> 
> ...


How have you been using the DAC until now? What method of connection between computer and DAC?

I don't know what dig thru is, you should be using line out mode.


----------



## Cyrusis

gimmeheadroom said:


> How have you been using the DAC until now? What method of connection between computer and DAC?
> 
> I don't know what dig thru is, you should be using line out mode.



I honestly just got everything, and I'm relatively new to all of the equipment, although learning. 

I was under the impression that digital through (labeled as dig thru on the ADI-2 PRO FS) would take the USB input signal (the audio), and then send out the audio out of the unbalanced audio outputs in the back of the amp. However, it doesn't appear to work.

The ADI-2 Pro came with a breakout cable which contains female coaxial SPDIF (RCA) that can connect into the back of the unit as well, so I'm not sure if I should use those RCAs instead of the TS outputs?


----------



## HappyMachine (Nov 11, 2020)

I've got a strange issue with my dac. Whenever I move my mouse (wireless), I hear interference through my headphones, like a quiet beep that stops when I stop the mouse. This doesn't happen when I put my mouse in wired-mode. Do you guys have any suggestions?

I've tried moving the wireless receiver away from the DAC which helps slightly but my desk is quite small so I can still hear the interference.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cyrusis said:


> I honestly just got everything, and I'm relatively new to all of the equipment, although learning.
> 
> I was under the impression that digital through (labeled as dig thru on the ADI-2 PRO FS) would take the USB input signal (the audio), and then send out the audio out of the unbalanced audio outputs in the back of the amp. However, it doesn't appear to work.
> 
> The ADI-2 Pro came with a breakout cable which contains female coaxial SPDIF (RCA) that can connect into the back of the unit as well, so I'm not sure if I should use those RCAs instead of the TS outputs?


You should connect a USB cable from the PC to the DAC. You have to install two sets of drivers from the RME website it's a bit annoying.

I suggest you sign up for the RME forums and get the guys to help. There is also a separate thread here for the Pro version.


----------



## Cevisi

HappyMachine said:


> I've got a strange issue with my dac. Whenever I move my mouse (wireless), I hear interference through my headphones, like a quiet beep that stops when I stop the mouse. This doesn't happen when I put my mouse in wired-mode. Do you guys have any suggestions?
> 
> I've tried moving the wireless receiver away from the DAC which helps slightly but my desk is quite small so I can still hear the interference.


Maybe try another mouse ?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> Maybe try another mouse ?


Yeah if it's a choice between a mouse and the RME, the mouse goes out the window


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah if it's a choice between a mouse and the RME, the mouse goes out the window



Agreed.  And while I avoid wireless peripherals in my home setup, telework has found me with the wireless Logitech MX Master quite near the RME. I can report zero interference. So the mouse make/model might be relevant too.


----------



## realmassy

Same here, I use wireless keyboard and mouse and I get no interference with the RME. Can you try bluetooth and see if it makes any difference?


----------



## HappyMachine

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah if it's a choice between a mouse and the RME, the mouse goes out the window


I play a good amount of video games so the mouse is slightly more important to me /; as I've gotten so used to it. It's the Logitech G900, it's not over Bluetooth so maybe that's the issue.

Whenever I move the mouse close to the dac the 'beep' gets louder and at very very specific angles the 'beep' get very loud i.e. ~half the volume of my normal listening levels. Could it be the USB cable? i.e. the USB-b cable that connects to the dac?

 I've had a bunch of dacs but never had interference issues so this is really strange /; I hope I can fix it. Sucks that the desks in my dorm are so small...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

HappyMachine said:


> I play a good amount of video games so the mouse is slightly more important to me /; as I've gotten so used to it. It's the Logitech G900, it's not over Bluetooth so maybe that's the issue.
> 
> Whenever I move the mouse close to the dac the 'beep' gets louder and at very very specific angles the 'beep' get very loud i.e. ~half the volume of my normal listening levels. Could it be the USB cable? i.e. the USB-b cable that connects to the dac?
> 
> I've had a bunch of dacs but never had interference issues so this is really strange /; I hope I can fix it. Sucks that the desks in my dorm are so small...


Two comments:

1. Your mouse is more important? Get off the forums now! 
2. You have an RME in your dorm room?! Welcome back


----------



## Cevisi

HappyMachine said:


> I play a good amount of video games so the mouse is slightly more important to me /; as I've gotten so used to it. It's the Logitech G900, it's not over Bluetooth so maybe that's the issue.
> 
> Whenever I move the mouse close to the dac the 'beep' gets louder and at very very specific angles the 'beep' get very loud i.e. ~half the volume of my normal listening levels. Could it be the USB cable? i.e. the USB-b cable that connects to the dac?
> 
> I've had a bunch of dacs but never had interference issues so this is really strange /; I hope I can fix it. Sucks that the desks in my dorm are so small...


wait a minute you know wireless mouse are crap for gaming and Bluetooth mouses are crapier because of input lag 

if games are important to you get a wired mouse with a 16k sensor


----------



## HappyMachine

Cevisi said:


> wait a minute you know wireless mouse are crap for gaming and Bluetooth mouses are crapier because of input lag
> 
> if games are important to you get a wired mouse with a 16k sensor


Wireless mice aren't crap for gaming, it's 2020, they're just as good as wired. And the G900 has a pmw3366 sensor which is more than good enough. Most CSGO pros for example (s1mple, elige, etc.) have long since switched to wireless mice...


----------



## Cevisi

HappyMachine said:


> Wireless mice aren't crap for gaming, it's 2020, they're just as good as wired. And the G900 has a pmw3366 sensor which is more than good enough. Most CSGO pros for example (s1mple, elige, etc.) have long since switched to wireless mice...


Yes simple is sponsored by logitech to use thier most expensiv gear like many other esl players

But anyway that g pro wireless is another story its almost good as wired


----------



## HappyMachine

Cevisi said:


> Yes simple is sponsored by logitech to use thier most expensiv gear like many other esl players
> 
> But anyway that g pro wireless is another story its almost good as wired



Pros don't have to switch mice based on sponsors... Guardian, also on NaVi, doesn't use a Logitech mouse for instance. Logitech sponsors Astralis and only 1 person on their team is using a Logitech mouse. 

G pro wireless is as good as wired and so is any other wireless gaming mice released in the last 5 years. It makes 0 difference


----------



## Terriero

I've never used a wireless mouse or keyboard (I'm a true lover of PC peripherials). Several years ago, when I was trying a Steelseries Xai or Kinzu (I can't remember which was) or maybe a Razer Lachesis, when I moved the mouse (and they all were wired) I could hear a noise via my sound card (same, can't remember if was a Creative soundblaster XFI extreme gamer or a Auzentech XFI Hometheater HD) through my headphones, was very annoying.

I don't know how I solved that, because in those times I changed a lot my peripherials (looking for the best combination for me... Remembers me a lot what I'm doing here...   )


----------



## technobear

Terriero said:


> I've never used a wireless mouse or keyboard (I'm a true lover of PC peripherials). Several years ago, when I was trying a Steelseries Xai or Kinzu (I can't remember which was) or maybe a Razer Lachesis, when I moved the mouse (and they all were wired) I could hear a noise via my sound card (same, can't remember if was a Creative soundblaster XFI extreme gamer or a Auzentech XFI Hometheater HD) through my headphones, was very annoying.
> 
> I don't know how I solved that, because in those times I changed a lot my peripherials (looking for the best combination for me... Remembers me a lot what I'm doing here...   )


The noise most likely travels on the USB ground wire. An iDefender or iPurifier2/3 will stop it.


----------



## Cevisi

HappyMachine said:


> Pros don't have to switch mice based on sponsors... Guardian, also on NaVi, doesn't use a Logitech mouse for instance. Logitech sponsors Astralis and only 1 person on their team is using a Logitech mouse.
> 
> G pro wireless is as good as wired and so is any other wireless gaming mice released in the last 5 years. It makes 0 difference


G pro wireless is not good as wired 

Its physical impossible to be fast and accurate like a wired connection

Its the same for headphones keyboard headphones internet connection chargin your phone and what else

They claim 1 ms latency i know but they are measured with 11ms


----------



## lattugatartaruga

hello, I've begun to notice some problems with my RME unit's display and I wondered if anyone else had seen similar issues (blue bleed up-top and a horizontal red line across the bottom splitting the VOL / INT info?  I am extremely careful with all my electronics and I baby the heck out of them.  I have kept up with my firmware updates but this seems very strange


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

lattugatartaruga said:


> hello, I've begun to notice some problems with my RME unit's display and I wondered if anyone else had seen similar issues (blue bleed up-top and a horizontal red line across the bottom splitting the VOL / INT info?  I am extremely careful with all my electronics and I baby the heck out of them.  I have kept up with my firmware updates but this seems very strange


I have seen this problem before.  I believe it was in this thread.  Unfortunately I do not remember the fix.  So I am not being helpful in this area but if you can't find it I would contact them.  They have amazing  communication.  I did see this before though but don't worry I think I remember it being something easy.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

lattugatartaruga said:


> hello, I've begun to notice some problems with my RME unit's display and I wondered if anyone else had seen similar issues (blue bleed up-top and a horizontal red line across the bottom splitting the VOL / INT info?  I am extremely careful with all my electronics and I baby the heck out of them.  I have kept up with my firmware updates but this seems very strange


Two things. One, I have seen at least a couple of reports of display issues but I don't think they're widespread. In one case it was really a problem and the guy got it replaced by his dealer but it was a new or newish unit. The other thing is OLEDs don't like to be on all the time, they do burn. I use the auto dark setting on my OLEDs to avoid screen burn.


----------



## lattugatartaruga

Thank you both for your swift replies.  I have been searching around for a while to no avail.  I shall contact them directly.  Thanks for the tip on auto dark mode, I will consider turning it on (even though it defeats the purpose of having such a nice eyecandy display ) and I do turn it off when not in use (2-3 hours at a time)...thanks again!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

lattugatartaruga said:


> Thank you both for your swift replies.  I have been searching around for a while to no avail.  I shall contact them directly.  Thanks for the tip on auto dark mode, I will consider turning it on (even though it defeats the purpose of having such a nice eyecandy display ) and I do turn it off when not in use (2-3 hours at a time)...thanks again!


Yeah I'm with you. I love the display on my RME and the Brooklyn's UI is even nicer. But I was dreading screen burn so they're both set to go off pretty quickly like 10 seconds or 30 seconds but not more than that.


----------



## monadnock

Gus141 said:


> Got my LUMIN U1 Mini network transport (streamer) yesterday, and after a day of trying all the permutations to my gear, the LUMIN connected to the RME ADI-2 DAC via USB sounded the best. Great combo! Best sound quality I’ve had out of any streamer I own (Oppo 205 via UPnP/DLNA, Bluesound Node 2i, and now LUMIN U1 Mini).
> 
> I’m no longer interested in trying the AES/EBU cable adapter to get it to work with the coax S/PDIF input of the RME. I think RME’s USB implementation is better than the Oppo 205; maybe their fs internal clock for USB is the difference, and makes it sound better than any S/PDIF input I give it. I’m still using all the inputs on the RME though: Oppo 205 via optical, Node 2i via coax, and now LUMIN U1 Mini via USB.
> 
> ...


interesting that USB sounded the best here.  currently using Mini USB to DAC and coax sounds different but I think that's more DAC related.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Nov 21, 2020)

I was intending to use my WM1A with the dock (allowing USB out) to connect as a source but I just realised that native DSD is only through Windows, is that correct?
For MDR-Z1R users, can anyone please comment on the bass and sub-bass with the RME?
In comparison to balanced amp/dacs is there anything that makes a balanced one better?
As there are many settings and I could get overwhelmed are there any youtube links or sites that offer some sort of guide?

** I actually just bought one so I will find out for myself, cheers


----------



## monadnock

Hinomotocho said:


> I was intending to use my WM1A with the dock (allowing USB out) to connect as a source but I just realised that native DSD is only through Windows, is that correct?
> For MDR-Z1R users, can anyone please comment on the bass and sub-bass with the RME?
> In comparison to balanced amp/dacs is there anything that makes a balanced one better?
> As there are many settings and I could get overwhelmed are there any youtube links or sites that offer some sort of guide?


to my limited experience, sometimes DACs sound better connected to pre/ amps via xlr, rather than single ended RCA.  in many cases USB is said to be the worst, w coax and everything else running some kind of race.

the same may be true about streamer to DAC.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Hinomotocho said:


> I was intending to use my WM1A with the dock (allowing USB out) to connect as a source but I just realised that native DSD is only through Windows, is that correct?
> For MDR-Z1R users, can anyone please comment on the bass and sub-bass with the RME?
> In comparison to balanced amp/dacs is there anything that makes a balanced one better?
> As there are many settings and I could get overwhelmed are there any youtube links or sites that offer some sort of guide?


The manual is comprehensive and the best guide . So many options does seem overwhelming but it is very easy to set the unit on automatic and then explore the options individually at your leisure . Setting save options mean you can easily revert to any setting if you mess something up while exploring .


----------



## KillerQ (Nov 22, 2020)

Hey, All,

I just picked up this beautiful Rupert Neve RNHP Amp to compliment my RME ADI-2 fs. Here are the specs: 


For the RNHP:
https://rupertneve.com/products/rnhp-he … amplifier/

For the RME ADI-2 fs:
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2dac_e.pdf

What RME settings would be best when using the RNHP as the main amp (I’ll be mostly using Anandas, Aeon 2 closed, and E-MU Teaks as my headphones)?

know different people have different opinions, but I think I should put it on the fixed output mode and keep the RNHP amp volume up all the way - that way I use the RME as the volume control. Right ?

I’d prefer to use the RME volume, so would I leave the new amp turned up all the way and leave AUTO REF LEVEL turned on with the RME? What about REF level +db settings?

Then I’ll remember these steps to keep in mind for future amps. 

Thanks for helping me learn.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

KillerQ said:


> Hey, All,
> 
> I just picked up this beautiful Rupert Neve RNHP Amp to compliment my RME ADI-2 fs. Here are the specs:
> 
> ...


If you put the RME on fixed output and turn the amp up all the way you will destroy every headphone you connect to it. Fixed output is max (0 dB).

You should be controlling volume at the amp, not at the DAC. I guess the RNHP is totally unnecessary with the RME though.


----------



## KillerQ

gimmeheadroom said:


> If you put the RME on fixed output and turn the amp up all the way you will destroy every headphone you connect to it. Fixed output is max (0 dB).
> 
> You should be controlling volume at the amp, not at the DAC. I guess the RNHP is totally unnecessary with the RME though.



the designers of the RME suggest to put the RME on auto ref and then leave external amps at max volume.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

KillerQ said:


> the designers of the RME suggest to put the RME on auto ref and then leave external amps at max volume.


That is not the same as fixed output. 

Anyway, amps are designed to be driven fully- that is, the input should be at full output (0 dB) or close to it. That's where they perform best. If you control volume at the source, your amp has very little signal to work with and you're hearing the worst your amp can deliver.

You risk blowing your brains out or destroying equipment if you run amps on max. There is really no good reason to do that. It may seem convenient, but it's wrong in every objective way.


----------



## captblaze

gimmeheadroom said:


> You risk blowing your brains out or destroying equipment if you run amps on max. There is really no good reason to do that. It may seem convenient, but it's wrong in every objective way.



I agree and will add that I have the gain trimmed 50% on my class D amp that feeds LS50's. At 0db the volume (on the ADI2 DAC) is at the highest volume I would give these speakers (and yes the amp is way over powered for the speakers).

my suggestion to @KillerQ is turn Auto Ref on, Set the DAC volume to 0db and with the RNHP volume encoder at its lowest setting listen and gradually raise the volume on the RNHP till you think it is just too loud and leave it there (mark its position). then in the future, use the volume encoder on the ADI2 DAC and leave the RNHP encoder alone


----------



## Hinomotocho

My iems and headphones are all 4.4mm, I'll have to use a couple of high quality adapters to get connected: Nuforce 6.3 > 3.5mm > Musashino 3.5mm > 4.4mm. Considering they are quality components will I be losing out much with these extra links in the chain?


----------



## VRacer-111 (Nov 22, 2020)

I manually put my RME ADI-2 @ -6dB with reference level set @ +1dB and adjust the volume of the Polaris amp I use with it accordingly.

When not using headphones I also use it as preamp volume control for my NAD C275BEE stereo amp to drive my Polk RTi A5 speakers.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Hinomotocho said:


> My iems and headphones are all 4.4mm, I'll have to use a couple of high quality adapters to get connected: Nuforce 6.3 > 3.5mm > Musashino 3.5mm > 4.4mm. Considering they are quality components will I be losing out much with these extra links in the chain?


The 3,5mm IEM out is not balanced. Not sure if you knew that.


----------



## Hinomotocho

gimmeheadroom said:


> The 3,5mm IEM out is not balanced. Not sure if you knew that.


Yes thanks I did, for that I would use just the 3.5mm > 4.4mm adapter. I shouldn't have included iems in the post, my main interest was if having to use 2 adapters would cause any significant loss of quality ie too many links in the chain - I assume it is less than ideal and wondered if investing in a quality 6.3mm > 4.4mm for my overheads would be recommended?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Hinomotocho said:


> Yes thanks I did, for that I would use just the 3.5mm > 4.4mm adapter. I shouldn't have included iems in the post, my main interest was if having to use 2 adapters would cause any significant loss of quality ie too many links in the chain - I assume it is less than ideal and wondered if investing in a quality 6.3mm > 4.4mm for my overheads would be recommended?


I understood the question but I don't know the answer. And I wanted to make sure you didn't expect to run 4.4mm balanced cables off that jack. As far as stacking adapters goes, on paper it's not a good idea. I doubt anybody can hear the difference much less measure it.

For me the issue of using adapters is that they sometimes pop apart and I really hate that. It could short out or you lose one channel and have no idea what's going on until you see the plug sticking out. If you can recable your headphones that's probably the best option. If you can't, there is probably nothing you can do except make up a custom cable with the right plug on one end and the right jack on the other.


----------



## Steve Wilcox

KillerQ said:


> Hey, All,
> 
> I just picked up this beautiful Rupert Neve RNHP Amp to compliment my RME ADI-2 fs. Here are the specs:
> 
> ...


I'm currently running a Dragonfly Cobalt into an RNHP in my computer setup. I've been thinking about an RME as an upgrade to the Cobalt and to possibly replace the RNHP as well.  I'd be interested in your thoughts between the RNHP v RME headphone outs?


----------



## Dogmatrix

KillerQ said:


> the designers of the RME suggest to put the RME on auto ref and then leave external amps at max volume.


For best possible performance RME output should be set and locked (read the manual) to maximum rated input for RNHP

“A” XLR I/P: +22.8 dBu @1kHz
“B” RCA I/P: +14.7dBu @1kHz,
“C” 3.5mm I/P: +3.3dBu @1kHz


Then use RNHP volume control


----------



## Hinomotocho

gimmeheadroom said:


> I understood the question but I don't know the answer. And I wanted to make sure you didn't expect to run 4.4mm balanced cables off that jack. As far as stacking adapters goes, on paper it's not a good idea. I doubt anybody can hear the difference much less measure it.
> 
> For me the issue of using adapters is that they sometimes pop apart and I really hate that. It could short out or you lose one channel and have no idea what's going on until you see the plug sticking out. If you can recable your headphones that's probably the best option. If you can't, there is probably nothing you can do except make up a custom cable with the right plug on one end and the right jack on the other.


I understand both outputs are single - my adapter is an official balanced (headphone) to single step down one, and both offer a solid connection fortunately. 
Some things are up for debate, others are a confirmed no-no, hopefully my double adapting will be of minimal loss of signal if any. 
Thanks for your replies.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Steve Wilcox said:


> I'm currently running a Dragonfly Cobalt into an RNHP in my computer setup. I've been thinking about an RME as an upgrade to the Cobalt and to possibly replace the RNHP as well.  I'd be interested in your thoughts between the RNHP v RME headphone outs?


The RNHP specs are not at all impressive. On paper they don't add anything to the RME.


----------



## Tuneslover

Dogmatrix said:


> For best possible performance RME output should be set and locked (read the manual) to maximum rated input for RNHP
> 
> “A” XLR I/P: +22.8 dBu @1kHz
> “B” RCA I/P: +14.7dBu @1kHz,
> ...


Is it necessary to set & lock the RME output to get the best possible performance?  I continue to tweak the outputs of my RME and V280 amp seeking the best synergy and sound between them.  Does the physical act of locking of the RME do anything specific to the actual sound?


----------



## KillerQ

gimmeheadroom said:


> The RNHP specs are not at all impressive. On paper they don't add anything to the RME.



on paper is one thing. In my ears is another. The RNHP is sounding heavenly with my Planars so far. They know what they’re doing


----------



## Progisus

KillerQ said:


> on paper is one thing. In my ears is another. The RNHP is sounding heavenly with my Planars so far. They know what they’re doing


The wonderful world of HiFi and the human brain.


----------



## KillerQ

Progisus said:


> The wonderful world of HiFi and the human brain.


Yup.


----------



## captblaze

KillerQ said:


> Yup.



which method of connection did you choose? I'm curious based on my set up


----------



## KillerQ

captblaze said:


> which method of connection did you choose? I'm curious based on my set up



Thanks for asking.  


There are two methods of using external amps with the RME ADI-2 DAC fs. I’m using the method to retain volume control on the DAC. I am using balanced XLR out on the RME to balanced XLR in on the RNHP. 

Hare the two methods:


*Two different approaches to use ADI-2 with external amps, how to set them up:


To maximize ADI-2's dynamic range (S/N ratio) it's best to have its volume control set to 0 dB, using the external amp's volume control*.
• Set external amp's volume control to middle position or some above.
• Switch *OFF* ADI-2's "Auto Reference Level".
• Set ADI-2's volume control to 0 dB.
• Select the reference level that fits best to your loudness demands.
• Use the ext. amp's volume dial to control the final loudness.

• Once you start to use any of ADI-2's DSP functions like e.g. the EQ, compensate possible level boosts with ADI-2's volume control until the Level Meter does not show overs.


*If you want to use ADI-2's digital volume control, ADI-2 DAC / (Pro) has a clever option that increases the usable dynamic range by 18 / (20) dB: "Auto Reference Level":*

• Switch *ON* ADI-2's "Auto Reference Level".
• Set ADI-2 DAC's _(Pro's)_volume control to -18 / _(-20)_dB*r*.
• Set ext. amp's volume control slightly above your normal listening level.
• Use ADI-2's volume control to set the final listening level.

Now ADI-2 automatically selects the reference level that fits best to your loudness demands, while maximizing it's DAC's dynamic range.


----------



## captblaze (Nov 23, 2020)

KillerQ said:


> Thanks for asking.
> 
> 
> There are two methods of using external amps with the RME ADI-2 DAC fs. I’m using the method to retain volume control on the DAC. I am using balanced XLR out on the RME to balanced XLR in on the RNHP.
> ...




I basically use method 1 setting the DAC to 0db and then trimming my amp gain to a listenable level (auto ref engaged). I am now trying the second method you listed. With the DAC volume 20db lower I added gain from the amp and will let that be the setting for now

the only perceived benefit the way I previously had it set up was with the DAC set to 0db as the max I had little chance of a power slam to my speakers.

thanks for the follow up


----------



## gimmeheadroom

KillerQ said:


> on paper is one thing. In my ears is another. The RNHP is sounding heavenly with my Planars so far. They know what they’re doing


Unless you compare it to how they sound out of the RME it doesn't contradict what I said


----------



## KillerQ

gimmeheadroom said:


> Unless you compare it to how they sound out of the RME it doesn't contradict what I said



That’s what I mean, A/B testing x|x RME and RNHP. I’m happy with it. 

What external amp would you choose for your RME if you had to choose one for Planars?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

KillerQ said:


> That’s what I mean, A/B testing x|x RME and RNHP. I’m happy with it.
> 
> What external amp would you choose for your RME if you had to choose one for Planars?


Ok in that case that is very good news 

I run a Lyr 2 off my RME which does a pretty good job and has tons of power. I don't think it's a great amp and the stock tubes lack clarity. With some upgraded tubes it is much better than stock. I guess a very powerful solid state amp that can supply plenty of current would be a good match for planars generally. GSX-mini, Bryston, and Violectric V28X could be candidates.

But, the RME by itself is surprisingly good with LCD-2C for example. And with other headphones like Fostex (but not TxxRP) the RME is also killer by itself.


----------



## Progisus

Would this setting be proper for the rca outs to powered Audioengine 5 speakers?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Progisus said:


> Would this setting be proper for the rca outs to powered Audioengine 5 speakers?


Unless you have volume control on your speakers and want to use that, you better start the RME low (around -55 dB) turn the Audioengine to near max, and control volume from the RME. 

I would be interested to know how you like those speakers, I was considering getting a set but the distributor in that area of the world doesn't have the bamboos.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Tuneslover said:


> Is it necessary to set & lock the RME output to get the best possible performance?  I continue to tweak the outputs of my RME and V280 amp seeking the best synergy and sound between them.  Does the physical act of locking of the RME do anything specific to the actual sound?


Locking is recommended only for convenience . Setting output levels (within device tolerable range) only measurably effects signal to noise ratio and in the RME even at worst case s/n is well below audible .


----------



## gimmeheadroom

It depends on the amp. Some amps like to be driven hard and they will sound better when operated that way. It doesn't depend on the RME, it depends on the amp in those cases.


----------



## Progisus

gimmeheadroom said:


> Unless you have volume control on your speakers and want to use that, you better start the RME low (around -55 dB) turn the Audioengine to near max, and control volume from the RME.
> 
> I would be interested to know how you like those speakers, I was considering getting a set but the distributor in that area of the world doesn't have the bamboos.


I am using the volume control on the A5+. They are not monitors but they have great bass and suit a desk environment well. Mine are white lacquer.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Progisus said:


> I am using the volume control on the A5+. They are not monitors but they have great bass and suit a desk environment well. Mine are white lacquer.


Thanks. I have passive monitors in one of my setups and they lack bass. I liked the looks of the Audioengine and I don't have a good amp in the setup I was thinking of using them in.

If you have volume control then run the RME at 0 dB fixed output level and control the volume on the speakers.


----------



## Slim1970

Anyone with an RME ADI-2 Pro using the balanced mode to power headphones? I just picked up an Silver Dragon adapter from Moon Audio and the power, details, dynamics and clarity are significantly improved. Bass hits so hard with so much definition on my Ether 2's.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Nov 24, 2020)

I don't have the Pro version but I'm sure a lot of headphones are driven better with more power, given the amp section is not a barnstormer.

There is a separate thread for the Pro btw.


----------



## Dogmatrix

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks. I have passive monitors in one of my setups and they lack bass. I liked the looks of the Audioengine and I don't have a good amp in the setup I was thinking of using them in.
> 
> If you have volume control then run the RME at 0 dB fixed output level and control the volume on the speakers.


Can you clarify  0dB output ? Is that  
1. ref +1 vol -1 , = 0.7v
2. ref auto and vol 0    =3.4v


----------



## Slim1970

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't have the Pro version but I'm sure a lot of headphones are driven better with more power, given the amp section is not a barnstormer.
> 
> There is a separate thread for the Pro btw.


Thanks, found it.


----------



## G8torbyte (Nov 24, 2020)

KillerQ said:


> That’s what I mean, A/B testing x|x RME and RNHP. I’m happy with it.
> 
> What external amp would you choose for your RME if you had to choose one for Planars?


I've been using the ADI-2 DAC going XLR-out paired to a THX AAA 789 amp for about two years.  I mostly use the balanced-out headphone connector on the amp and the power works very well for planars.  Tubes/hybrid tube amps are hit or miss with planars in my experience.  The xDuoo-T20 I currently use has plenty of power and pairs well with my HE-4XX and Aivas but sounds odd with the LCD2C and Ether CX.  And dynamics sound nice as expected on the hybrid amp with US-NOS tubes.
My settings are somewhat similar to the 2nd method you mentioned earlier with Auto-Ref on.  I noticed if I adjust the RME's volume knob the numbers tend to skip around a bit? Is that the auto-ref self adjusting?  So now I leave the RME volume alone and just make the slight volume adjustments on the THX while it is set on mid-gain.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Anyone have any thoughts on the A90 paired with the RME?  I can not find anyone that has anything negative to say about the amp itself.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Dogmatrix said:


> Can you clarify  0dB output ? Is that
> 1. ref +1 vol -1 , = 0.7v
> 2. ref auto and vol 0    =3.4v


I don't use auto ref. I'm just using 0 dB fixed output. I don't think it's critical.


----------



## Dogmatrix

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't use auto ref. I'm just using 0 dB fixed output. I don't think it's critical.


I am just a little confused as to what 0dB fixed output is . Because output is a combination of reference level setting and volume setting  . So if you are using a set reference level and 0db on the volume setting it is important to know which reference level .


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Nov 25, 2020)

0 dB shouldn't depend on anything. How you get that to happen could depend on various settings. Again, I don't think it's critical and a lot of amps are happier overdriven a bit.

I'll have to check but as far as I know I have the default reference level (I don't remember wanting to change it) and the volume at 0 dB.

My reference level seems to be +7 dBu


----------



## technobear

Dogmatrix said:


> Can you clarify  0dB output ? Is that
> 1. ref +1 vol -1 , = 0.7v
> 2. ref auto and vol 0    =3.4v



User Manual, page 36, section 19.2:



> The ADI-2 DAC has two unbalanced analog outputs that can operate with levels up to +15.5
> dBu (+13 dBu with Volume set to +2.5 dB). The short circuit protected, low impedance line
> outputs are available as RCA jacks on the back of the unit.
> 
> ...



So when Auto Ref Level is engaged, the volume readout is always relative to +13 dBu (e.g. 0 dBr == +13 dBu) .

If you set a fixed reference level then 0 dBr will be relative to that fixed level.

For the XLR outputs, it is 6 dBu higher at +19 dBu.

The following section, 19.3, describes Auto Ref Level (with +19 dBu as the reference level):



> To maintain an optimum level for devices connected to the analog outputs and to maximize the
> dynamic range, the ADI-2 DAC internally uses hi-quality electronic switches, which realize a
> hardware based Reference Level selection in steps of 6 dB over a range of 18 dB: +1 dBu, +7
> dBu, +13 dBu and +19 dBu.
> ...



Amazing what you can learn by reading the user manual.

dBu    V
-11   0.218
-10   0.245
-9     0.275
-8     0.309
-7     0.346
-6     0.388
-5     0.436
-4     0.489
-3     0.549
-2     0.616
-1     0.691
0      0.775
1      0.870
2      0.976
3      1.095
4      1.228
5      1.378
6     1.546
7      1.735
8      1.947
9      2.184
10    2.451
11    2.750
12    3.085
13    3.462
14    3.884
15    4.358
16    4.890
17    5.487
18    6.156
19    6.907
20    7.750
21    8.696
22    9.757


----------



## Progisus

Dogmatrix said:


> I am just a little confused as to what 0dB fixed output is . Because output is a combination of reference level setting and volume setting  . So if you are using a set reference level and 0db on the volume setting it is important to know which reference level .


My previous post has a page from the manual for typical output setting. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-thread.868015/post-15993497


----------



## Dogmatrix (Nov 25, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> 0 dB shouldn't depend on anything. How you get that to happen could depend on various settings. Again, I don't think it's critical and a lot of amps are happier overdriven a bit.
> 
> I'll have to check but as far as I know I have the default reference level (I don't remember wanting to change it) and the volume at 0 dB.
> 
> My reference level seems to be +7 dBu


Thanks mate and sorry for the kafuffle . At 1.7 volts that is indeed a good safe setting to recommend . My concern was that if we talk about output settings without referencing the reference setting a possible damaging scenario arises . Lets say someone has just bought a second-hand pro unit . Since this is the most active RME thread they come here looking for a recommended setting to connect their old amp . They read volume setting 0db recommended a number of times and take that advice . If the reference setting was set to auto or +24 by the previous owner they will be selecting a 12 volt line out . Depending on the amp that may be enough for the magic smoke to escape .


----------



## Yorch Hernandez (Nov 25, 2020)

Those who have the rme adi, do you get the presets loaded in the eq? They don't appear to me, all the spaces appear as free, I followed the steps of youtube, but I do not get the presets loaded, to you if they appear?
I have the new version with ak4493 chip


----------



## Slim1970

Yorch Hernandez said:


> Those who have the rme adi, do you get the presets loaded in the eq? They don't appear to me, all the spaces appear as free, I followed the steps of youtube, but I do not get the presets loaded, to you if they appear?


Once you make a preset, you have to save it to a slot. It’s better to have your preset slots named beforehand so when you‘re scrolling it makes it easy to find and save.


----------



## Yorch Hernandez

Slim1970 said:


> Once you make a preset, you have to save it to a slot. It’s better to have your preset slots named beforehand so when you‘re scrolling it makes it easy to find and save.




Thank you. In the youtube video  19 different presets already saved are displayed, those presets for different phones do not come loaded from manufacture?


----------



## Slim1970

Yorch Hernandez said:


> Thank you. In the youtube video  19 different presets already saved are displayed, those presets for different phones do not come loaded from manufacture?



No, the preset slots have generic names on them. You have to overwrite them with the name of a headphone. At least that is what I do.


----------



## KillerQ

Slim1970 said:


> No, the preset slots have generic names on them. You have to overwrite them with the name of a headphone. At least that is what I do.


I didn’t even realize there were presets that were setup. I thought they were all blank flat slots for you to alter


----------



## Yorch Hernandez

Slim1970 said:


> No, the preset slots have generic names on them. You have to overwrite them with the name of a headphone. At least that is what I do.



I understand, when I watched that video, I thought I already had those preloaded eq presets as shown in the video. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Yorch Hernandez

KillerQ said:


> I didn’t even realize there were presets that were setup. I thought they were all blank flat slots for you to alter



Do you see presets already setup? or also just flat free spaces?


----------



## KillerQ

Yorch Hernandez said:


> Do you see presets already setup? or also just flat free spaces?


I haven’t looked. I just assumed they were blank slots


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Dogmatrix said:


> Thanks mate and sorry for the kafuffle . At 1.7 volts that is indeed a good safe setting to recommend . My concern was that if we talk about output settings without referencing the reference setting a possible damaging scenario arises . Lets say someone has just bought a second-hand pro unit . Since this is the most active RME thread they come here looking for a recommended setting to connect their old amp . They read volume setting 0db recommended a number of times and take that advice . If the reference setting was set to auto or +24 by the previous owner they will be selecting a 12 volt line out . Depending on the amp that may be enough for the magic smoke to escape .


You're absolutely right, and thanks for making me more aware of this. I'm not sure RME has done us a favor with having two knobs but when I set 0 dB fixed output I expected the "standard" line out of 2 volts, give or take.

I didn't touch the defaults for levels, I didn't read that section of manual, and I'm probably under-driving my amp.

In another setup recently I found that the Chord Mojo sounded significantly fuller than a new low-end R2R DAC I bought, when driving the same amp. And I tried them both with another amp and the results were the same, the Mojo was clearly better.

It turns out the line out setting on the Mojo is fairly hot (I would have to check the thread here on headfi, but I think closer to 2.7V) and the R2R is rated at the expected 2V. When I used variable output on the R2R and cranked it up a bit the bass improved, the sound got fuller and the difference between the two changed to differences in character instead of one being better than the other.

My Brooklyn is less surprising


----------



## wantan

Yorch Hernandez said:


> Do you see presets already setup? or also just flat free spaces?



There are no presets, just empty slots. 



gimmeheadroom said:


> My Brooklyn is less surprising



What's you impression RME ADI 2 DAC vs Brooklyn as DACs soundwise?
RME - Corda Jazz FF - HD600 is a great setup. I'm using the same, amidst others, but with a HD660s mostly.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Nov 26, 2020)

wantan said:


> What's you impression RME ADI 2 DAC vs Brooklyn as DACs soundwise?
> RME - Corda Jazz FF - HD600 is a great setup. I'm using the same, amidst others, but with a HD660s mostly.



There are a lot of differences between them overall. The RME build is not impressive in terms of heft and the wall PSU. The Brooklyn feels like it costs. It's heavy and doesn't move around on my desk. The UI is beautiful, the case is beautiful, the display is beautiful and some ways even more informative than the RME's, it's a beautiful piece of hardware.

I don't compare my gear critically but I notice differences anyway. Recently, I started listening to my LCD-3F again out of the RME and Brooklyn. The RME is absolutely distinctly more musical than the Brooklyn with this combo. And that is true whether I run it out of the headphone jack on either DAC or whether I run it off the amps I have plugged into each DAC.

I have a Jazz-ff and I agree it is surprisingly good with the HD 600s, but I have it running off another system. I don't use it with my DACamps. It's killer with LCD-2C by the way, which I did not expect at all.

I use the RME either alone or into a Lyr 2 with good tubes for everything but my Sennheisers. The Sennheisers run balanced off a V280 plugged into my Brooklyn. For me there are a lot of variables and I usually don't experiment much swapping things around. It turns out the LCD-3F is more analytical than I remembered so I did spend a little time trying to see what was going on.

I had always found the RME amazingly musical and this experience really reaffirms it. On its own the impression I get of the Brooklyn is not cold or warm but rather neutral. I can definitely recommend it at twice the price of the RME if you don't need EQ and do want MQA.


----------



## wantan

Thanks! I share your impression the RME is slightly on the smooth and musical side of regular ds DACs. The differences are small enough though. I like it for Bass/Treble adjustment and the EQ mostly.


----------



## Kike6685

Hi
I currently have a hifiman arya and fostex th900 and use them in ifi micro idsd signature.
Previously, I also had anandas that changed for arya. Anandas and fostex sound great with the ifi. Ifi moves the aryas well but their sound doesn't convince me. Almost everyone prefers aryas to anandas and they say that they have more bass and less treble than ananda. It doesn't sound like that to me at all. I have read that with the oratory eq aryas  can get a lot of slam, similar to that of fostex.
So, RME adi-2 dac has eq it can be very interesting.
Do you have enough power to move the aryas?
I think that ifi ia more powerfull than adi 2 dac
Cheers


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

zeny said:


> Hey guys, how do you check if your adi 2 dac FS is the latest version with AK4493?



https://www.klauseulenbach.de/2019/11/24/updated-rme-adi-2-dac-november-2019/


----------



## jshaevitz

TANTALUMWATCHES said:


> https://www.klauseulenbach.de/2019/11/24/updated-rme-adi-2-dac-november-2019/


My manual came with a page insert that mentions the new chip.


----------



## KillerQ

The new version ships with the new remote.


----------



## Phoniac

jshaevitz said:


> My manual came with a page insert that mentions the new chip.


That link to the updated manual is outdated. They changed it to 
http://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2dacr_e.pdf


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Updated manuals! Another great thing about RME


----------



## BlairW

I am looking at getting an RME ADI-2? (is this the right DAC for me?)
I have for Cans:
Abyss Diana Phi
ZMF Verite C
Audeze LCD-X

I am wondering what would be a good amp pairing to go after the RME ADI-2?
I am looking for a transparent SS amp for mastering that can handle these cans.
I am also looking for a tube amp (willing to roll a bit) for those softer listening days.
I currently own a WA11 but i'm looking for something a little more beefy and desktop oriented.
My budget per amp is less than $5000 

Could anyone help me out with this?
Cheers


----------



## BurritoJustice

BlairW said:


> I am looking at getting an RME ADI-2? (is this the right DAC for me?)
> I have for Cans:
> Abyss Diana Phi
> ZMF Verite C
> ...



If you're looking for a transparent amp for mastering, the inbuilt amp on the ADI-2 DAC is easily enough for the headphones you have there. It'll put 1.5W into your lower impedance planars and 300mW into the Verite, enough to make your ears bleed. From an objective standpoint, the inbuilt amp on the ADI-2 actually outperforms the inbuilt DAC, so you will only _add _noise/distortion by using an external amp. I have been told this directly by RME's Founder Matthias Carstens the specs on the internal amp as that is not something that can be measured otherwise. The DSP also allows you to equalise your headphones to whatever target curve you prefer, which is very useful for mastering. You can look at "oratory1990's EQ presets" on reddit for your headphones to match the harman target curve, which is proven to be what the average user prefers and is therefore great for mastering.

If you subscribe to subjective differences in solid state amps, I can't really help you there. But the world of tube amps is fun, I'd recommend looking at ones with adjustable gain and output impedance as that's where most of the tube warmth comes from, though that won't affect your planars. Maybe have a look at the Cayin HA-1A? It's a fun, relatively cheap tube amp that has five steps of output impedance and a preamp for tube goodness on external speakers. Also looks lovely which I think is important for tube amps


----------



## BlairW

BurritoJustice said:


> If you're looking for a transparent amp for mastering, the inbuilt amp on the ADI-2 DAC is easily enough for the headphones you have there. It'll put 1.5W into your lower impedance planars and 300mW into the Verite, enough to make your ears bleed. From an objective standpoint, the inbuilt amp on the ADI-2 actually outperforms the inbuilt DAC, so you will only _add _noise/distortion by using an external amp. I have been told this directly by RME's Founder Matthias Carstens the specs on the internal amp as that is not something that can be measured otherwise. The DSP also allows you to equalise your headphones to whatever target curve you prefer, which is very useful for mastering. You can look at "oratory1990's EQ presets" on reddit for your headphones to match the harman target curve, which is proven to be what the average user prefers and is therefore great for mastering.
> 
> If you subscribe to subjective differences in solid state amps, I can't really help you there. But the world of tube amps is fun, I'd recommend looking at ones with adjustable gain and output impedance as that's where most of the tube warmth comes from, though that won't affect your planars. Maybe have a look at the Cayin HA-1A? It's a fun, relatively cheap tube amp that has five steps of output impedance and a preamp for tube goodness on external speakers. Also looks lovely which I think is important for tube amps



The headphone outputs on the RME ADI-2 aren't balanced though, do you think this would have a major impact on the sound living in a dense downtown area?


----------



## BurritoJustice

BlairW said:


> The headphone outputs on the RME ADI-2 aren't balanced though, do you think this would have a major impact on the sound living in a dense downtown area?


Balanced output is mainly better because it puts out much more power. It won't make it any clearer or different in other ways. But there is already enough power in the headphone amp for what you are using, the single-ended output on the ADI-2 DAC puts out 10v which is more than some more basic balanced amps. If you want something balanced, you can get the ADI-2 Pro Fs R which is the higher end model which allows you to run balanced with an adaptor. This means it would put out more than twice the power, but you won't have it turned up high enough for that to be an issue unless you want to cause hearing loss!

I use an ADI-2 Pro Fs Black Edition personally, mainly because I use HE6se headphones which benefit from the 3w balanced output. They are unique in how much power they require, and no other headphone comes close. I previously used a variety of solid state amplifiers, including the Drop 789 which puts out 6w into the same headphones, and I went back to just using the inbuilt amp as it is much more convenient and I actually found it better because it has digitally controlled volume which means perfect channel matching. With most amps that use analog volume control you will get channel imbalance at low volumes. It's very useful that with the inbuilt amp you can set it to a precise level within 0.5dB over 120dB!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

BlairW said:


> I am looking at getting an RME ADI-2? (is this the right DAC for me?)
> I have for Cans:
> Abyss Diana Phi
> ZMF Verite C
> ...


The RME does not do a good job with 300 ohm dynamics. Since you're in Canada you could look at Bryston, the headamp and other gear have a lot of fans. Other choices are Violectric/Nimbus and GSX-Mini. If you want really transparent look at the Benchmark HPA-4.


----------



## musicisthekey

I have rather an unusual question. Other than output power, how would you compare RME's headphone out sound signature in comparison to something like SP1K/SP2K or WM1A/WM1Z in terms of treble, mids, bass and soundstage? Is it a musical/engaging listen?


----------



## Karister (Dec 13, 2020)

I would say it is neutral and does not boost or cut any part of frequency response. There is no tube sound magic or musicality in RME. I would say it might be described as engaging due to faithful sound reproduction. But if you want to make it more warm or analytic sounding, it's built in PEQ will do that. To some extent but this is definitely much more flexible and capable of adjusting sound signature than changing DACs, AMPs and cables. I never regretted buying RME due to sound signature. I tweaked HiFiMAN Arya, Audiotechnica ATH ADX-5000, Focal Utopia and Final Audio D8000 Pro with it's PEQ and it did wonderful job for all of them.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I'm convinced this DAC is the best thousand euros|dollars anybody will ever spend on audio gear.


----------



## musicisthekey

Karister said:


> I would say it is neutral and does not boost or cut any part of frequency response. There is no tube sound magic or musicality in RME. I would say it might be described as engaging due to faithful sound reproduction. But if you want to make it more warm or analytic sounding, it's built in PEQ will do that. To some extent but this is definitely much more flexible and capable of adjusting sound signature than changing DACs, AMPs and cables. I never regretted buying RME due to sound signature. I tweaked HiFiMAN Arya, Audiotechnica ATH ADX-5000, Focal Utopia and Final Audio D8000 Pro with it's PEQ and it did wonderful job for all of them.


From reading reviews, it's the feeling that I got. Musicality is very important to me. Unfortunately, I don't like using EQ. Thanks for your insight.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

It is extremely musical without any EQ. The stock sound just nails it. Glorious!


----------



## technobear

musicisthekey said:


> From reading reviews, it's the feeling that I got. Musicality is very important to me. Unfortunately, I don't like using EQ. Thanks for your insight.


Chord Qutest.


----------



## sabloke

Silly question: can I use the ADI-2 DAC to output to an active subwoofer via RCA while simultaneously feeding a pair of active monitors on XLR? I have read somewhere that the two outputs are running concurrently, but I am not sure actually OK to use the DAC like that.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

sabloke said:


> Silly question: can I use the ADI-2 DAC to output to an active subwoofer via RCA while simultaneously feeding a pair of active monitors on XLR? I have read somewhere that the two outputs are running concurrently, but I am not sure actually OK to use the DAC like that.


Yes, all outputs are active.


----------



## sabloke

Sweet! I am getting a  M&K V-76 Subwoofer to test, hope it sound decent paired with my Focal Shape 65 active monitors. Lucky I can adjust the low pass filter on the monitors to send all lows to that borg cube to to the work. That thing is huge!


----------



## SLMStyles

gimmeheadroom said:


> It is extremely musical without any EQ. The stock sound just nails it. Glorious!


Absolutely agree.  Prior to the RME, I had 2x Hugo 2’s, a Mojo, and the Sony WM1A + TA-ZH1ES combo.  All of which are considered very musical.  I loved all that gear, but also enjoy trying new things.
The RME doesn’t disappoint at all, and is shockingly clear and pleasing to listen to.


----------



## Slaphead

musicisthekey said:


> From reading reviews, it's the feeling that I got. Musicality is very important to me. *Unfortunately, I don't like using EQ.* Thanks for your insight.



Ok, you haven't said why you don't like using EQ, and honestly I tend not to EQ either, but trust me when I say that pretty much everything we listen to these days has had the crap EQ'd out of it in the production stage already. So adding a little of your own to taste is no big sin.

However I do find the ADI 2 to be very musical right out of the box, but I tend to find slightly analytical to be more musical than the warmer tube like signatures which, invoking the use of onomatopoeia, sound somewhat "muffy" to me.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I think maybe it's easy to miss the point and think the RME DAC is gimmicky. It's not. It's a piece of pro gear from a pro audio company that thought they could sell to the hifi crowd. I'm pretty sure they had no idea how successful it would be. The RME DAC is absolutely not about encouraging you to spend all your time twisting knobs and pushing buttons although you could. It's about a serious, amazing piece of hardware with a lot of design and engineering that *also* lets you fix sonic problems with a very well thought out parametric EQ facility and a spectrum display and other features that let you understand what the input looks like.

I need the EQ for two headphones I have which I would otherwise not listen to much. I don't use the EQ at all for any of my other headphones. And I'm really glad it's parametric EQ and not graphic. That's the first, best sign it's not a feature for playing games or making tweaks. Parametric EQ is all about solving specific sonic problems. If you don't have any, leave it alone. It doesn't need any EQ to sound amazing.


----------



## bagno

So now I also have ADI DAC 

https://zapodaj.net/images/8b71d0606088a.jpg


----------



## jshaevitz

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think maybe it's easy to miss the point and think the RME DAC is gimmicky. It's not. It's a piece of pro gear from a pro audio company that thought they could sell to the hifi crowd. I'm pretty sure they had no idea how successful it would be. The RME DAC is absolutely not about encouraging you to spend all your time twisting knobs and pushing buttons although you could. It's about a serious, amazing piece of hardware with a lot of design and engineering that *also* lets you fix sonic problems with a very well thought out parametric EQ facility and a spectrum display and other features that let you understand what the input looks like.
> 
> I need the EQ for two headphones I have which I would otherwise not listen to much. I don't use the EQ at all for any of my other headphones. And I'm really glad it's parametric EQ and not graphic. That's the first, best sign it's not a feature for playing games or making tweaks. Parametric EQ is all about solving specific sonic problems. If you don't have any, leave it alone. It doesn't need any EQ to sound amazing.


I agree with all of these points. The manual states their philosophy quite well. EQ to fix inherent problems in cans/speaker/room, loudness to recover accurate presentation at lower listening levels, and bass/treble adjust if YOU decide a certain mix needs it it. It makes a lot of sense to me.


----------



## Duncan_McCloud

Downsizing went very good (not for the wallet I guess)


----------



## BlairW

Duncan_McCloud said:


> Downsizing went very good (not for the wallet I guess)


Where did you get that glass table?


----------



## Duncan_McCloud

BlairW said:


> Where did you get that glass table?



Amazon for 23€. It's meant to be used under desktop monitor, but It works well for the price imo. This was the smaller of three size:

https://www.amazon.it/dp/B084SS22R5?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share


----------



## BurritoJustice

sabloke said:


> Sweet! I am getting a  M&K V-76 Subwoofer to test, hope it sound decent paired with my Focal Shape 65 active monitors. Lucky I can adjust the low pass filter on the monitors to send all lows to that borg cube to to the work. That thing is huge!


The RCA output is 6dB quieter so make sure to change your gain accordingly!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

BurritoJustice said:


> The RCA output is 6dB quieter so make sure to change your gain accordingly!


Probably not critical with a powered sub but still worth mentioning.


----------



## sabloke

gimmeheadroom said:


> Probably not critical with a powered sub but still worth mentioning.



The sub can adjust -/+ 6dB and is quite oversized for pairing with my fairly small monitors. Hopefully I will be able to adjust the system to sound acceptable.


----------



## BurritoJustice

sabloke said:


> The sub can adjust -/+ 6dB and is quite oversized for pairing with my fairly small monitors. Hopefully I will be able to adjust the system to sound acceptable.


Make sure to check the input sensitivity of the sub, it's consumer focused and your (absolutely lovely) monitors are pro. I'd recommend matching your gain, it's pretty important to getting a consistent room response.

Also, your monitors have a low-pass filter which is really useful as you can set it to the max frequency of your sub so there is little overlap

I personally use Focal Alpha 80 studio monitors, with a KRK 12s-HO sub with my ADI-2 Pro. With mine the output runs through the sub before going to the surrounds so that it can integrate properly.

Focal makes absolutely lovely monitors, I'm glad you've also got an RME and Focal setup!


----------



## InAndOut

I've had the RME ADI-2 DAC now for a couple months and am over the moon in love with this piece of hardware. I was looking for an upgrade to my 2 year old Schiit Modi Multi bit and stumbled on the RME. At first I wrote it off due to the high cost, but was able to finally find one on the Sale/Trade section on headfi. I LOVE the IEM output, it's silent with even the most sensitive IEMs, just as advertised.

I also just upgraded my computer speaker system from a 15 year old Klipsch 2.1 system that can still be bought, to a Monoprice Stage Right 5" powered monitor speakers via XLR, plus an old 8" Reference Klipsch sub via RCA I had sitting in the corner. It's so nice to have everything controlled from the RME unit, switching from headphones, IEMs and to speakers was a pain having to use the windows interface, but now I just have to unplug my headphones or IEMs. Its rendered by 789 useless.


----------



## ejswa51

I'm joining the owners club too! Got the unit also on the second hand market and after using an EL Amp with a Schiit Loki equalizer changing to a single box solution that even does the DAC better than anything I own, adding nerdy but super cool screen with visualisation, makes me a happy man! No idea how this unit can be even better yet, it drives my W3000ANV's beautifully so I'm looking forward for some listening sessions during the Christmas holiday!

Only thingy I notice is that the power connector is very wobbly and can lose connection with the slightest movement. It's not a biggy since it's not a portable unit, but due to the usb connection, that I use to connect it my phone which does move around obviously, being near the power connection I've lost power once or twice while operating my phone. Do more people experience this?


----------



## Hinomotocho

ejswa51 said:


> I'm joining the owners club too! Got the unit also on the second hand market and after using an EL Amp with a Schiit Loki equalizer changing to a single box solution that even does the DAC better than anything I own, adding nerdy but super cool screen with visualisation, makes me a happy man! No idea how this unit can be even better yet, it drives my W3000ANV's beautifully so I'm looking forward for some listening sessions during the Christmas holiday!
> 
> Only thingy I notice is that the power connector is very wobbly and can lose connection with the slightest movement. It's not a biggy since it's not a portable unit, but due to the usb connection, that I use to connect it my phone which does move around obviously, being near the power connection I've lost power once or twice while operating my phone. Do more people experience this?


Welcome. 
The power connector requires a twist to lock it in.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Hinomotocho said:


> Welcome.
> The power connector requires a twist to lock it in.


^
This. Common question. When I got mine I was afraid I was gonna break the PSU plug since it didn't want to seat. Turn and lock, those RME guys thought of everything!


----------



## bagno

After a few days of using RME, however, I find that the better configuration is RME + Burson Soloist mk2. At first I liked the built-in amplifier more, but now I change my mind  Talk about a combination with akg812. Although I also think that the built-in amplifier is more accurate and precise.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Dec 17, 2020)

bagno said:


> After a few days of using RME, however, I find that the better configuration is RME + Burson Soloist mk2. At first I liked the built-in amplifier more, but now I change my mind  Talk about a combination with akg812. Although I also think that the built-in amplifier is more accurate and precise.



Tube amp /warm euphonic SS amp with the RME ADI-2 DAC makes the perfect compliment to me... not a fan of 'reference' neutrality in a setup. Both my Project Polaris and the Project Ember II add that extra solidity and life to the sound that I love. Was listening to Senri Kawaguchi's 'CIDER' album last night on my new Denon AH-D5200 (with Yaxi TH610 Alcantara pads) .... playing the CD from Xbox One -> RME ADI-2 -> Project Ember with Reflector 6H23n-EB tube.... was quite an experience that would be best described as listening to STAX L700 combined with Fostex TH-X00 Purpleheart... precision, speed, finesse, fine detail/intonation information, extraordinary separation, absolute low end power, full/solid sound, and beautiful musicality....


----------



## bagno (Dec 17, 2020)

VRacer-111 said:


> Tube amp /warm euphonic SS amp with the RME ADI-2 DAC makes the perfect compliment to me... not a fan of 'reference' neutrality in a setup. Both my Project Polaris and the Project Ember II add that extra solidity and life to the sound that I love. Was listening to Senri Kawaguchi's 'CIDER' album last night on my new Denon AH-D5200 (with Yaxi TH610 Alcantara pads) .... playing the CD from Xbox One -> RME ADI-2 -> Project Ember with Reflector 6H23n-EB tube.... was quite an experience that would be best described as listening to STAX L700 combined with Fostex TH-X00 Purpleheart... precision, speed, finesse, fine detail/intonation information, extraordinary separation, absolute low end power, full/solid sound, and beautiful musicality....
> [/ZACYTOWAĆ]



This soloist has something of a tube sound to it. I agree with you and I think RME can connect well with the lamp. I think next week I will have the opportunity to listen to it in a lamp configuration


----------



## Traiguen (Dec 24, 2020)

Lolito said:


> get a r2r dac better. This is just a ton of features into a cheap delta sigma dac.


My 2 cents...
I bought the Denafrips Pontus - which is supposed to be a big step up from the Ares II - and I put away my RME ADI-2.... 3 months later I decided to connect the RME and run a few tests against the Pontus.  I have a Headamp GS-X Mini connected to the Pontus via XLR and I also connected the RME via RCA to the GS-X Mini and with just 1 switch I could do A/B with the Pontus.  I am the kind that NEVER hears any difference when I change amps or DACs so I was not expecting to hear much of a difference... oh boy, was I wrong!!!  Switching between the RME and the Pontus was very, very different. The Pontus trimmed out the highs notably, all sounds seemed to be a bit muffled compared to the RME which sounded brighter, more detailed, crispy, alive....etc..... To make this story short.... Pontus is sold., I am back to Delta Sigma DAC.


----------



## cistercian

Traiguen said:


> My 2 cents...
> I bought the Denafrips Pontus - which is supposed to be a big step up from the Ares II - and I put away my RME ADI-2.... 3 months later I decided to connect the RME and run a few tests against the Pontus.  I have a Headamp GS-X Mini connected to the Pontus via XLR and I also connected the RME via RCA to the GS-X Mini and with just 1 switch I could do A/B with the Pontus.  I am the kind that NEVER hears any difference when I change amps or DACs so I was not expecting to hear much of a difference... oh boy, was I wrong!!!  Switching between the RME and the Pontus was very, very different. The Pontus trimmed out the highs notably, all sounds seemed to be a bit muffled compared to the RME which sounded brighter, more detailed, crispy, alive....etc..... To make this story short.... Pontus is sold., I am back to Delta Sigma DAC.



 I got the RME when I found my TASCAM CD-200BT had a horrible analog out. I had used a Sony CD player before and thought it was great.
  I had absolutely no idea how bad it was until I listened thru the RME fed with the coax digital out from the TASCAM. It was appalling and exhilarating
at the same time. Nuance and detail emerged that I had never heard before. And the RME was flat in frequency response. The Sony was not.
 I bought the Sony CD player in 1990. It had a vastly inferior and pedestrian AD convertor...I never knew. Until I used the RME...my goodness
it was a revelation. I want the most accurate reproduction possible as well as the ability to EQ or bass/treble on some poor recordings.
  The RME excels at this. I completely understand what you mean when you say it is more alive. It really is reference grade.   

 I use my RME to drive my amp/speakers too. It is fantastic for that too.


----------



## linearly

Hello everyone, it has been a while, still enjoying the ADI-2 a lot, but even with all my 'upgrades' to the transport and the psu something was still missing in my setup, it was like a meal without salt, and I think I've found my secret ingredient, and its free within the RME settings. 

My setup now is the RME ADI-2 > A90 > HD820, and while the sound is amazing, on some tracks I wish it had a bit more body to it, and maybe be more musical (like my R-2R dac Project Box S FL). 

Playing around within the menu I've found the 'Polarity' setting, had no clue what it did and if it had any effect on the sound. It turns out, at least in my setup, it was exactly what I was missing. I'm using Polarity- Both option. For me it adds a lot of body to the mids, makes the music flow better.

This is why I still love my ADI-2, with so many options to modify the sound you can discover something that completes your system. And its free within the options. I'm curious to see if this setting makes a difference for someone else like it did for me. Not sure if all will enjoy it, it sounds like a distortion of some kind, almost tube like, but for me it is very enjoyable.


----------



## Duncan_McCloud

linearly said:


> Playing around within the menu I've found the 'Polarity' setting, had no clue what it did and if it had any effect on the sound. It turns out, at least in my setup, it was exactly what I was missing. I'm using Polarity- Both option. For me it adds a lot of body to the mids, makes the music flow better.



Well... from the manual... 

_"Polarity (Phase Invert)
Available settings are Off, Both, Left and Right. Inverts the polarity on the corresponding channel."_


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Duncan_McCloud said:


> Well... from the manual...
> 
> _"Polarity (Phase Invert)
> Available settings are Off, Both, Left and Right. Inverts the polarity on the corresponding channel."_


That seams to imply that @linearly is listening out of phase (non-linearly) which will add distortion on properly mastered recordings. I would think some judicious use of the parametric EQ would give a lot better sound in every definable way.


----------



## Duncan_McCloud

gimmeheadroom said:


> That seams to imply that @linearly is listening out of phase (non-linearly) which will add distortion on properly mastered recordings. I would think some judicious use of the parametric EQ would give a lot better sound in every definable way.



I don't get why to add such a functionality..


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Duncan_McCloud said:


> I don't get why to add such a functionality..


Because there are messed up recordings around and RME is a pro audio company. They just happen to have hit the jackpot with their hifi dacs. Being able to switch phase can make listening to some oddball recordings sound like they should.


----------



## whistlebug23

I searched frantically for ideas and resolution before posting, so here's an obligatory and shameful guy-who-doesn't-know-his-stuff post... But I'm getting some serious buzz from my Andromeda when there is no music playing. It does happen during playback, but I haven't figured out a pattern. My other IEMs seem quiet.

It's using an optical connection, so there's no USB buzz. The power supply is plugged into an outlet that's only shared with a lamp, though it is connected to a light switch (it's an old apartment, ya see). Not really sure where to go at this point. I'd even consider some over-priced widget, as long as it gets rid of the buzz (_desperate laugh_).

Unless the Andros are just _that_ sensitive and - I can't imagine this is the case - I need to add an iEMatch, which defeats the purpose of the ADI-2. Though I would like an excuse to buy back my Element II... I appreciate any feedback, you guys rock! Hope you all are surviving the holiday season.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

unplug everything and then start plugging things in one at a time


----------



## whistlebug23

gimmeheadroom said:


> unplug everything and then start plugging things in one at a time



As in PC peripherals (USB, etc.)? I have heard that monitors/displays can cause interference, so I can give that a shot.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

whistlebug23 said:


> As in PC peripherals (USB, etc.)? I have heard that monitors/displays can cause interference, so I can give that a shot.


Yeah, everything, and turn off every light in the house. I mean everything. Then try one at a time, process of elimination.

It could even turn out to be something outside your house


----------



## whistlebug23

Good thing there are breaker panels!


----------



## Cevisi (Dec 27, 2020)

whistlebug23 said:


> Good thing there are breaker panels!


Are you using the iem or headphone out?

Try the iem out

Yes andros are that sensitive you hear
 nearly anywhere hiss when there is no music playing its the most sensitiv iem i know with 12ohm and
112 db per mw


----------



## elquixote (Dec 27, 2020)

Slaphead said:


> Nope. A DAC, as it originally was at least, was something you fed a digital signal, and then it would output an analog signal via RCA, DIN, or maybe XLR into a pre-amp at line level. There were no controls, other than an on/off button, and maybe a filter switch.
> 
> The ADI 2 DAC has a volume control, not to mention EQ, and is capable of being connected to a power amp and/or powered speakers. That makes it a fully paid up member of the pre-amp club, albeit only for digital sources. It is however possible to operate the RME in a pure DAC mode which will bypass those controls.



I am currently using my RME as a DAC/Preamp into my Bryston 3b-st power amp. I guess I am curious as to what the settings should be, mainly the if AutoRef should be on or not and what the Ref Level should be set to. Anyone have any insight on this? Typically I was using it as a DAC going into my Phonitor X with AutoRef on and Ref level to +13 w/ volume at 0 since the Phonitor has its own volume control. Going to the Bryston though I am currently at +1 Ref level with AutoRef disabled and volume at -30 since I am using the know to attenuate the signal volume.

If I have autoRef on it sets the Ref Level down to -5 which is the lowest it goes.

Reason I am asking is because I am considering selling my Phonitor as its silly that its usually a pre-amp, most of my HFM cans go to the Bryston w/ the X as acting as preamp and the other cans (Senns mainly) go to the darkvoice.

Thanks!


----------



## wantan

If you use the RME as preamp then "auto ref" on gives you the best measuring results.

Auto ref off only makes sense if you want to avoid using the digital volume control. In this case you're left with the analogue reference levels only.


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

elquixote said:


> I am currently using my RME as a DAC/Preamp into my Bryston 3b-st power amp. I guess I am curious as to what the settings should be, mainly the if AutoRef should be on or not and what the Ref Level should be set to. Anyone have any insight on this? Typically I was using it as a DAC going into my Phonitor X with AutoRef on and Ref level to +13 w/ volume at 0 since the Phonitor has its own volume control. Going to the Bryston though I am currently at +1 Ref level with AutoRef disabled and volume at -30 since I am using the know to attenuate the signal volume.
> 
> If I have autoRef on it sets the Ref Level down to -5 which is the lowest it goes.
> 
> ...


https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=30931


----------



## whistlebug23

Cevisi said:


> Are you using the iem or headphone out?
> 
> Try the iem out
> 
> ...



Yep, definitely using IEM out (whole reason I got the unit was the supposed low noise). May have to revert to Element II after all.


----------



## flaquito

PSA - John Darko has posted his YouTube review:
Wunderbar! RME's ADI-2 DAC FS is *the* DAC to beat at €1K:
Have to wait to watch it myself 😏


----------



## Slaphead

Duncan_McCloud said:


> I don't get why to add such a functionality..



OK, I tend to find quite a few youtube/dailymotion etc videos of interest to me where the left and right channels are out of phase - don't ask me why. You can listen to them, but it's uncomfortable. Switching to mono does less than help as it makes the audio inaudible (the LR channels are effectively cancelling each other out). So, being able to switch polarity on one or the other channel is an absolute godsend.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

flaquito said:


> PSA - John Darko has posted his YouTube review:
> Wunderbar! RME's ADI-2 DAC FS is *the* DAC to beat at €1K:
> Have to wait to watch it myself 😏



There are a few mistakes in this video, for example stating that it pairs exceptionally well with the HD-650. It has been stated here numerous times that the HD-650 is NOT a good match with the relatively flat presentation of the RME DAC.

Also, did he really admit to ordering from Thomann with the clear intention to test it (so more than just see if it's good enough for him, but rather to get his use out of it, make money with the review) and then return it? I personally find that unethical and frankly disgusting. When we order brand new things and pay for them we have to wonder if the merchant is honest enough to always sell returned items as B-Stock. Thomann has a lot of B stock headphones, but I note that it has no RME B-stock units for sale. I am not questioning Thomann per se, I've had good experiences with them except for the trash way they packaged an item once (and failed to apologize, they said "well, is it broken?"), but I felt disgusted enough by the practice to type this. There.

But yeah, life is grand. The ADI-2 is amazing.


----------



## technobear

CaptainFantastic said:


> There are a few mistakes in this video, for example stating that it pairs exceptionally well with the HD-650. It has been stated here numerous times that the HD-650 is NOT a good match with the relatively flat presentation of the RME DAC.


Rubbish! One person only has stated this. The fact that he has stated it a thousand times doesn't make it true (and it isn't).


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Dec 28, 2020)

CaptainFantastic said:


> There are a few mistakes in this video, for example stating that it pairs exceptionally well with the HD-650. It has been stated here numerous times that the HD-650 is NOT a good match with the relatively flat presentation of the RME DAC.
> 
> Also, did he really admit to ordering from Thomann with the clear intention to test it (so more than just see if it's good enough for him, but rather to get his use out of it, make money with the review) and then return it? I personally find that unethical and frankly disgusting. When we order brand new things and pay for them we have to wonder if the merchant is honest enough to always sell returned items as B-Stock. Thomann has a lot of B stock headphones, but I note that it has no RME B-stock units for sale. I am not questioning Thomann per se, I've had good experiences with them except for the trash way they packaged an item once (and failed to apologize, they said "well, is it broken?"), but I felt disgusted enough by the practice to type this. There.
> 
> But yeah, life is grand. The ADI-2 is amazing.



I agree. It is a superb DAC with so many amazing features but it does not drive the HD 600s (and by extension the 650s) well. It probably doesn't swing enough voltage.


technobear said:


> Rubbish! One person only has stated this. The fact that he has stated it a thousand times doesn't make it true (and it isn't).


It's easy to prove. Listen to a pair of 600/650 out of the RME and then listen to them out of an appropriate amp driven by the RME. It's not because of the RME's sonic qualities. It's because the RME doesn't have enough amp.

That this should surprise anybody is what's surprising. Very few dacamps can drive 300 ohm dynamics well.


----------



## whistlebug23

Fish outta water here (obviously), but I quite like the sound of my HD600 through the ADI-2. I think there's a little to be desired, but I'm content. At the risk of being obtuse/abrasive, am I to think that I need to get the ADI-2 and a dedicated amp? Sounds like a JDS Atom stack would be more than sufficient, no?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

whistlebug23 said:


> Fish outta water here (obviously), but I quite like the sound of my HD600 through the ADI-2. I think there's a little to be desired, but I'm content. At the risk of being obtuse/abrasive, am I to think that I need to get the ADI-2 and a dedicated amp? Sounds like a JDS Atom stack would be more than sufficient, no?


I think you can be quite happy with something you think is fine as long as you don't go looking for trouble  

Unless something is terribly wrong, the only way you know there is more to go is by comparison. It is known about the HD 600 that they scale tremendously. They sound better and better as you listen to them out of better and better (and more powerful) amps. If you're fine with how your gear sounds consider yourself fortunate and you're done. If not, there is very likely a lot more listening pleasure available with the RME driving a better amp. Tube OTL amps are a particularly good match for most high impedance dynamics including these Sennheisers. And it seems to be one of the main reasons is that they supply enough voltage.


----------



## technobear

gimmeheadroom said:


> I agree. It is a superb DAC with so many amazing features but it does not drive the HD 600s (and by extension the 650s) well. It probably doesn't swing enough voltage.
> 
> It's easy to prove. Listen to a pair of 600/650 out of the RME and then listen to them out of an appropriate amp driven by the RME. It's not because of the RME's sonic qualities. It's because the RME doesn't have enough amp.
> 
> That this should surprise anybody is what's surprising. Very few dacamps can drive 300 ohm dynamics well.


As usual you seem to be assuming that all 300 ohm headphones are the same (not true). The HD600 and HD650 are rather inefficient compared to newer designs. That much is true. However the ADI-2 DAC has no trouble swinging enough voltage for the 600 ohm T1. The latter is a more efficient design and sounds glorious out of the ADI-2 DAC.

Whilst you might wish for more power with the HD650, it is incorrect to say that the ADI-2 DAC can't drive 300 ohm headphones. Impedance is only half of the story.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Dec 29, 2020)

technobear said:


> As usual you seem to be assuming that all 300 ohm headphones are the same (not true). The HD600 and HD650 are rather inefficient compared to newer designs. That much is true. However the ADI-2 DAC has no trouble swinging enough voltage for the 600 ohm T1. The latter is a more efficient design and sounds glorious out of the ADI-2 DAC.
> 
> Whilst you might wish for more power with the HD650, it is incorrect to say that the ADI-2 DAC can't drive 300 ohm headphones. Impedance is only half of the story.


You're wrong that I'm assuming anything and you could have said it in a more gentlemanly manner. I have noticed a significant decline in decorum on this forum lately.

You're right, certainly efficiency has more influence on how hard headphones are to drive than impedance. Still, it is valid to say in general that the RME does not drive high impedance dynamics well.

I don't mean to say that the RME does a bad job with high impedance dynamics in the abstract. I mean to say that when you compare how these headphones sound out of the RME to how they sound out of the RME driving an appropriate amp, you quickly realize there is a lot of room for improvement. It is not even a criticism of the RME. I don't expect a dacamp to be able to drive anything well. I do expect a standalone headamp to do that, so I prefer separates.


----------



## flaquito

CaptainFantastic said:


> Also, did he really admit to ordering from Thomann with the clear intention to test it (so more than just see if it's good enough for him, but rather to get his use out of it, make money with the review) and then return it? I personally find that unethical and frankly disgusting.


I agree. He says he didn’t ask RME directly. But with a YouTube subscriber count of around 150k, RME may well have supported him. Plus quick postage as both John and RME are in Germany. Also in this episode he says he took a punt and bought one. Not such a punt if you intend to return it.. 

Anyway, aside from this, I must say I really enjoy the laid back approach to his reviews


----------



## wantan

Slaphead said:


> OK, I tend to find quite a few youtube/dailymotion etc videos of interest to me where the left and right channels are out of phase - don't ask me why. You can listen to them, but it's uncomfortable. Switching to mono does less than help as it makes the audio inaudible (the LR channels are effectively cancelling each other out). So, being able to switch polarity on one or the other channel is an absolute godsend.



Could you post a sample or two, I'd love to try this. I find the polarity switch very usefull, too, but have never used the "right - left" option so far.



gimmeheadroom said:


> Tube OTL amps are a particularly good match for most high impedance dynamics including these Sennheisers. And it seems to be one of the main reasons is that they supply enough voltage.



The RME on high power has 10V with 300Ohms if I read the manual correctly. It should be able to power the HD650 to reach 120db, so it has sufficient headroom available even for the most demanding tasks. I hope I don't have these numbers wrong.
It's an interesting discussion, I've disliked the RME headphone output for quite some time but eventually noticed that is sounds fine actually. Its just very clear and clean. So I'm doubtful about an absolute lack of driving ability.
Another factor with headphones could be that higher voltage rails sound better with high impedance headphones.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

wantan said:


> Could you post a sample or two, I'd love to try this. I find the polarity switch very usefull, too, but have never used the "right - left" option so far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is no absolute lack. Everything is relative. In my experience you need 15V for the 600 to sound great. Fun starts at 12V.

The Sennheiser 600/650/6XX can sound lifeless without enough of the right kind of power even though they get earsplittingly loud.

What known good amps have you compared the 650 out of RME alone to? Without a basis for comparison there is no discussion.


----------



## Duncan_McCloud

gimmeheadroom said:


> There is no absolute lack. Everything is relative. In my experience you need 15V for the 600 to sound great. Fun starts at 12V.



May I ask that if it counts even for HD800S, in your opinion ?

Thanks


----------



## whistlebug23

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think you can be quite happy with something you think is fine as long as you don't go looking for trouble



I certainly don't want to cause any trouble, I like this crowd! 

I've said it once and I'll say it again... I'm  too much of a casual at this stage in my hobby to know how voltage, impedance, etc. affect my experience. It's something I'll grasp with experience and time.


----------



## wantan

gimmeheadroom said:


> There is no absolute lack. Everything is relative. In my experience you need 15V for the 600 to sound great. Fun starts at 12V.
> 
> The Sennheiser 600/650/6XX can sound lifeless without enough of the right kind of power even though they get earsplittingly loud.
> 
> What known good amps have you compared the 650 out of RME alone to? Without a basis for comparison there is no discussion.



I don't put too much importance into amp differences these days personally but I have a Phonitor e, a Corda Classic FF and a Corda Jazz FF. All of these manage 15+V. The differences increases depending on listening volume for me. Considering the nearly 500Ohm of a HD650 in the bass 12-15V is a reasonable number if you listen to 80-90db. I'm more at 70-80db, this is quite fine for the RME. Listening louder reduces slam and soundstage and increases fatigue if you don't have the headroom, which should be 40db to be on the safe side.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

whistlebug23 said:


> I certainly don't want to cause any trouble, I like this crowd!
> 
> I've said it once and I'll say it again... I'm  too much of a casual at this stage in my hobby to know how voltage, impedance, etc. affect my experience. It's something I'll grasp with experience and time.


Oh I didn't mean that at all  I meant if you are happy with your gear it's a bad time to start experimenting! That can lead to a severe loss of money! 

In my experience, which is very limited, the Sennheisers start to sound good with amps that swing 12V - 15V and scale hugely as the amp gets better and more powerful. It's empirical experience but I found it interesting for example that the Meier Corda Jazz-ff swings 15V and drives the HD 600 very well and that the new ifi Zen Can is also rated at 15V. I run my Sennheisers balanced out of a V280 which swings like 60V. When you have enough voltage, the sound fills out and there is a sense of space and fullness and that the music from bass to high treble is really what it should be. With amps that don't have enough power, or not enough of the right kind of power, they can sound lifeless and thin even though they get loud enough. I have noticed significant differences in sound quality with these out of around 10 different amps and sources and I concluded what I concluded.

I think a lot of people are happy with Sennheisers out of their RME or other dacamp and I'm not saying they're wrong. I do not see many of them if any saying they compared the sound from the RME to the sound of a GSX-mini, Bryston, Violectric, Feliks etc. driven by the RME and didn't find it hugely better and more coherent.

By the way, a cheap amp that does a really good job with the 600/650/6XX is the Valhalla 2 with good tubes.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Duncan_McCloud said:


> May I ask that if it counts even for HD800S, in your opinion ?
> 
> Thanks


I can't remember if I spent much time with my 800s (not S) out of the RME. I have a dedicated Sennheiser setup which is a Brooklyn driving a V280 balanced all the way. Sometimes I run the 600s off a Valhalla 2 and it sounds great, but the 800 reveals too much midrange slop and blur with the stock tubes so I don't use it.

I think it's a mistake to buy Sennheisers and run them directly out of most dacamps. There are exceptions of course but 90% or more dacamps will not give you what the Sennheisers are capable of.

If you're happy with what you're hearing nobody can tell you you're wrong. But we can suggest trying a better amp so you have a basis for comparison and don't sell yourself short by listening to your headphones out of less amp than they can benefit from.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

wantan said:


> I don't put too much importance into amp differences these days personally but I have a Phonitor e, a Corda Classic FF and a Corda Jazz FF. All of these manage 15+V. The differences increases depending on listening volume for me. Considering the nearly 500Ohm of a HD650 in the bass 12-15V is a reasonable number if you listen to 80-90db. I'm more at 70-80db, this is quite fine for the RME. Listening louder reduces slam and soundstage and increases fatigue if you don't have the headroom, which should be 40db to be on the safe side.


I'm talking about how the sound improves when the amp can supply enough power, fast enough. I'm not talking about steady-state volume.


----------



## Bompah

gimmeheadroom said:


> Oh I didn't mean that at all  *I meant if you are happy with your gear it's a bad time to start experimenting! That can lead to a severe loss of money!*



Amen!


----------



## Lolito

gimmeheadroom said:


> Oh I didn't mean that at all  I meant if you are happy with your gear it's a bad time to start experimenting! That can lead to a severe loss of money!
> 
> In my experience, which is very limited, the Sennheisers start to sound good with amps that swing 12V - 15V and scale hugely as the amp gets better and more powerful. It's empirical experience but I found it interesting for example that the Meier Corda Jazz-ff swings 15V and drives the HD 600 very well and that the new ifi Zen Can is also rated at 15V. I run my Sennheisers balanced out of a V280 which swings like 60V. When you have enough voltage, the sound fills out and there is a sense of space and fullness and that the music from bass to high treble is really what it should be. With amps that don't have enough power, or not enough of the right kind of power, they can sound lifeless and thin even though they get loud enough. I have noticed significant differences in sound quality with these out of around 10 different amps and sources and I concluded what I concluded.
> 
> ...



Yes man, but those amps you mention, they all cost a fortune, and the hd6XX are 200$ headphones. I would certainly use a gsx mini or violectric IF YOU PAY FOR IT AND SEND IT TO MY ADDRESS, but otherwise, for those thousands of euros I really can do many more things than buy a 2000$ headphone amp.


----------



## Lolito

Duncan_McCloud said:


> Downsizing went very good (not for the wallet I guess)



That is a lovely photo, what a great combo you have!! new black joutenheim looks really elegant, modern, minimal, sophisticated. BUT, that is not a regular joutenheim... that is the R, not the 2... my bad... I noticed later no single ended jack connection.


----------



## wantan

gimmeheadroom said:


> I'm talking about how the sound improves when the amp can supply enough power, fast enough. I'm not talking about steady-state volume.



I'm not aware of a technical concept for this but I assume we're talking about the same thing actually, I just call it headroom. Forum postings can easily be misunderstood so please be aware I don't oppose your opinion.  

If you listen to the RME - Corda Jazz FF - HD600 chain what output power setting would you use for the RME and which gain for the amp (for modern music with dynamic range about 8-10). I'm just curious because I have the same setup available.


----------



## Slim1970

wantan said:


> I'm not aware of a technical concept for this but I assume we're talking about the same thing actually, I just call it headroom. Forum postings can easily be misunderstood so please be aware I don't oppose your opinion.
> 
> If you listen to the RME - Corda Jazz FF - HD600 chain what output power setting would you use for the RME and which gain for the amp (for modern music with dynamic range about 8-10). I'm just curious because I have the same setup available.


Set it up for auto ref. That way the RME will adjust itself and always give you the best and most output power as you adjust the volume wheel. It will also prevent you from clipping or overpowering your headphones as as well.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lolito said:


> Yes man, but those amps you mention, they all cost a fortune, and the hd6XX are 200$ headphones. I would certainly use a gsx mini or violectric IF YOU PAY FOR IT AND SEND IT TO MY ADDRESS, but otherwise, for those thousands of euros I really can do many more things than buy a 2000$ headphone amp.


That comparison is meaningless. Would you feel better spending 100 euros on an amp for a 1700 euro pair of headphones?

The point was not how much a good amp costs but rather how good the 600/650/6XX are that they scale with better and better amps.

The HD 600 may cost 360 euros but in many ways it is difficult to beat for 1500 euros. How much a headphone costs does not really correlate very well to how it sounds. These are one of the best examples.

Like I said, a good cheap amp is a Valhalla 2. Even better if you spend some money and upgrade the tubes.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

wantan said:


> I'm not aware of a technical concept for this but I assume we're talking about the same thing actually, I just call it headroom. Forum postings can easily be misunderstood so please be aware I don't oppose your opinion.
> 
> If you listen to the RME - Corda Jazz FF - HD600 chain what output power setting would you use for the RME and which gain for the amp (for modern music with dynamic range about 8-10). I'm just curious because I have the same setup available.


I don't think what you're talking about is headroom, strictly speaking but I could be wrong. I think of headroom as static. In other words, once you reach your desired listening level, how much more is left out of that amp? My point was more about dynamic power delivery capability. And I think it makes a difference even at normal listening levels.

Whenever I use an external amp, I drive the source at 100% (0 dB). To me this is the correct and only safe way to do it. For one thing, amps are rated when fully driven. If you control output level at the source, you are underdriving your amp and it will not perform as well as it would when fully driven. For another thing, there is always the risk you'll blow up your gear or destroy your hearing if you control output level at the source and keep the amp at full output. You can easily forget or change the output device and bad things could happen.

My dacamps are set up in line out mode. When a pair of headphones is not plugged in, they go to 0 dB out. When I plug in a pair of headphones, they remember the last volume level I used.

I don't necessarily suggest the Corda Jazz-ff as ideal to run off the RME. Rather, it was an example of a amp that I feel does very well with the HD 600s and amazingly well with LCD-2C by the way. But as good as the RME is, if you have hard to drive headphones the dac deserves a really good amp.


----------



## captblaze

gimmeheadroom said:


> Like I said, a good cheap amp is a Valhalla 2. Even better if you spend some money and upgrade the tubes.



I've had good results with matched Bugle Boys (have some Gold Lions in queue waiting purchase) for input tubes and some Russian output tubes. This combo does an adequate job of opening up 300 ohm cans


----------



## elisiX

For me i've found the following with my RME when paired with my HD800S;

HD800S out of RME alone, often the music is too sharp and can be uncomfortable sounding at times across a wide range of music, especially when poorly recorded
HD800S out of RME/V281, much better with significantly fewer occasions that I detected harshness in tracks - V281 brought body to the sound
HD800S out of RME/V281 with Moon Black Dragon headphone cable, zero occasions that I find music to sound harsh - BD cable did exactly what it said it would

From Moon;
'It is extremely smooth sounding with great low end and wonderful voicing. It is not a laid-back, lush, or dark sounding cable. It smooths out the top end, making it a little less analytical and a little more natural-sounding. It also adds bottom end weight to the lower frequencies and provides a fuller sound and wider soundstage.'

This is exactly how i'd describe this cable for the HD800S.

I'm also a fan of this cable for the Utopia, though I think it has a greater positive impact on the HD800S.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

whistlebug23 said:


> Fish outta water here (obviously), but I quite like the sound of my HD600 through the ADI-2. I think there's a little to be desired, but I'm content. At the risk of being obtuse/abrasive, am I to think that I need to get the ADI-2 and a dedicated amp? Sounds like a JDS Atom stack would be more than sufficient, no?


Might I suggest you consider the Schiit Valhalla 2 if you're looking for a different amp to feed your HD600's?  I have one and my HD650's and HD700's sound great with it.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

wantan said:


> I don't put too much importance into amp differences these days personally but I have a Phonitor e, a Corda Classic FF and a Corda Jazz FF. All of these manage 15+V. The differences increases depending on listening volume for me. Considering the nearly 500Ohm of a HD650 in the bass 12-15V is a reasonable number if you listen to 80-90db. I'm more at 70-80db, this is quite fine for the RME. Listening louder reduces slam and soundstage and increases fatigue if you don't have the headroom, which should be 40db to be on the safe side.


Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges here, but I started out in the headphone game a few years ago with a Schiit Bifrost, Valhalla 2, and a pair of Sennheiser HD700's.  Sounded great for almost everything I listen to, but not everything.  I then purchased a pair of HD650's which still worked well but clamped too tightly onto my fat head, so they're not what I use for most listening.  I then took the plunge earlier this year and purchased a pair of Dan Clark Ether 2's.  They sounded like crap with the V2 but sounded fine with my big 5.1 Denon receiver.  That's when I purchased a Phonitor x.  Amazing difference in performance in the E2's!  It was money well spent.  What I'm trying to say is that before I spent another large chunk of cash, I poured over amplifier specs in terms of output impedance, power into x ohm headphones, etc and by the numbers, the V2 should've been sufficient.  It was woefully lacking the drive needed for the E2's.  The numbers can't tell you the whole story.  You need either first-hand experience with the objects in question to determine how well they work together, or the opinion of someone you trust who has that first-hand experience.

With regard to listening levels, you're right it absolutely does matter.  Playing a mediocre amp at low listening levels will not push it out of its comfort zone and should sound decent.  You just can't push it hard.  That was my theory when I tried listening to Loreena McKennitt's _The Mummer's Dance_.  Even at very modest listening levels, the bass was just so muddy and sloppy with the E2's connected to the V2 that I thought there was a problem with the headphones.  Plugging the E2's into the Phonitor, everything was tight and punchy.

My 2¢.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> That comparison is meaningless. Would you feel better spending 100 euros on an amp for a 1700 euro pair of headphones?



And to add... I've seen the following point made several times this year by people in this hobby, including some high-flying reviewers: "Since it takes an expensive amp for the HD 600 to reach its full potential and the HD 600 is 'only' a $300 headphone, it's not worth it, who would foolishly spend $1000 on a amp. Why not get a $300 headphone that reaches its full potential with a cheap or $500 amp?" ...the argument goes.

First of all, the HD 600 sounds good on cheaper amps too, and it certainly sounds great on the way above entry-level offering of the RME ADI-2. It's just that it sounds even better on the right amp, either solid state with the right attributes or an OTL tube amp. But secondly, just because the HD 600 sells for $300 doesn't mean that the people who enjoy it are using it because they can't afford a more expensive headphone. For me, and I am sure for others, there is no substitute for the HD 600. I had a very expensive Audeze and sold it, good as it was. I have the Aeolus and I enjoy it, but as an alternative, not a substitute. So yes, I will damn well pair the HD 600 with what I think is the best amp I can afford.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges here, but I started out in the headphone game a few years ago with a Schiit Bifrost, Valhalla 2, and a pair of Sennheiser HD700's.  Sounded great for almost everything I listen to, but not everything.  I then purchased a pair of HD650's which still worked well but clamped too tightly onto my fat head, so they're not what I use for most listening.  I then took the plunge earlier this year and purchased a pair of Dan Clark Ether 2's.  They sounded like crap with the V2 but sounded fine with my big 5.1 Denon receiver.  That's when I purchased a Phonitor x.  Amazing difference in performance in the E2's!  It was money well spent.  What I'm trying to say is that before I spent another large chunk of cash, I poured over amplifier specs in terms of output impedance, power into x ohm headphones, etc and by the numbers, the V2 should've been sufficient.  It was woefully lacking the drive needed for the E2's.  The numbers can't tell you the whole story.  You need either first-hand experience with the objects in question to determine how well they work together, or the opinion of someone you trust who has that first-hand experience.
> 
> With regard to listening levels, you're right it absolutely does matter.  Playing a mediocre amp at low listening levels will not push it out of its comfort zone and should sound decent.  You just can't push it hard.  That was my theory when I tried listening to Loreena McKennitt's _The Mummer's Dance_.  Even at very modest listening levels, the bass was just so muddy and sloppy with the E2's connected to the V2 that I thought there was a problem with the headphones.  Plugging the E2's into the Phonitor, everything was tight and punchy.
> 
> My 2¢.


Nice post and by the way the clamp has nothing to do with your head. The HD 600 has a jaws of death clamp on everybody's head! Ten or twenty years from now you won't even remember it.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> And to add... I've seen the following point made several times this year by people in this hobby, including some high-flying reviewers: "Since it takes an expensive amp for the HD 600 to reach its full potential and the HD 600 is 'only' a $300 headphone, it's not worth it, who would foolishly spend $1000 on a amp. Why not get a $300 headphone that reaches its full potential with a cheap or $500 amp?" ...the argument goes.
> 
> First of all, the HD 600 sounds good on cheaper amps too, and it certainly sounds great on the way above entry-level offering of the RME ADI-2. It's just that it sounds even better on the right amp, either solid state with the right attributes or an OTL tube amp. But secondly, just because the HD 600 sells for $300 doesn't mean that the people who enjoy it are using it because they can't afford a more expensive headphone. For me, and I am sure for others, there is no substitute for the HD 600. I had a very expensive Audeze and sold it, good as it was. I have the Aeolus and I enjoy it, but as an alternative, not a substitute. So yes, I will damn well pair the HD 600 with what I think is the best amp I can afford.


The other thing is, good amps are usually good for more than one pair of headphones. A bad amp is bad for pretty much every headphone.

So there is also the economy of scale


----------



## NehPets

gimmeheadroom said:


> That comparison is meaningless. Would you feel better spending 100 euros on an amp for a 1700 euro pair of headphones?
> 
> The point was not how much a good amp costs but rather how good the 600/650/6XX are that they scale with better and better amps.
> 
> ...


Apogee Groove, anyone?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Woefully underpowered for high impedance dynamics. Many DAPs and portable have much more power and still can't get the job done.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges here, but I started out in the headphone game a few years ago with a Schiit Bifrost, Valhalla 2, and a pair of Sennheiser HD700's.  Sounded great for almost everything I listen to, but not everything.  I then purchased a pair of HD650's which still worked well but clamped too tightly onto my fat head, so they're not what I use for most listening.  I then took the plunge earlier this year and purchased a pair of Dan Clark Ether 2's.  They sounded like crap with the V2 but sounded fine with my big 5.1 Denon receiver.  That's when I purchased a Phonitor x.  Amazing difference in performance in the E2's!  It was money well spent.  What I'm trying to say is that before I spent another large chunk of cash, I poured over amplifier specs in terms of output impedance, power into x ohm headphones, etc and by the numbers, the V2 should've been sufficient.  It was woefully lacking the drive needed for the E2's.  The numbers can't tell you the whole story.  You need either first-hand experience with the objects in question to determine how well they work together, or the opinion of someone you trust who has that first-hand experience.
> 
> With regard to listening levels, you're right it absolutely does matter.  Playing a mediocre amp at low listening levels will not push it out of its comfort zone and should sound decent.  You just can't push it hard.  That was my theory when I tried listening to Loreena McKennitt's _The Mummer's Dance_.  Even at very modest listening levels, the bass was just so muddy and sloppy with the E2's connected to the V2 that I thought there was a problem with the headphones.  Plugging the E2's into the Phonitor, everything was tight and punchy.
> 
> My 2¢.


I went looking for the Ether 2 specs and was unable to find anything on the Dan Clark site. However on a review site I found that the impedance is listed at 16 ohms. There is no way a low impedance planar would be expected to sound good out of a Valhalla 2 so I am not surprised at all at what you said. If you had run them out of a Lyr 2 that would have been a much better match. I don't think this is a case of the numbers not telling the story, but there are certainly cases where that is true.

How do you like your 650s out of the Valhalla 2? I find it a very good combo.


----------



## whistlebug23

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Might I suggest you consider the Schiit Valhalla 2 if you're looking for a different amp to feed your HD600's?  I have one and my HD650's and HD700's sound great with it.



Appreciate the advice, but I was - in all fairness - being obtuse. Though I have tried Schiit before and wasn't a fan at all..


----------



## GumbyDammit223

gimmeheadroom said:


> I went looking for the Ether 2 specs and was unable to find anything on the Dan Clark site. However on a review site I found that the impedance is listed at 16 ohms. There is no way a low impedance planar would be expected to sound good out of a Valhalla 2 so I am not surprised at all at what you said. If you had run them out of a Lyr 2 that would have been a much better match. I don't think this is a case of the numbers not telling the story, but there are certainly cases where that is true.
> 
> How do you like your 650s out of the Valhalla 2? I find it a very good combo.


I really liked the combination.  Now the 650's are in the office and being driven by a Hel.  No complaints.


----------



## nlths

Hi, I am looking for a DAP that have at least matching output power with the IEM jack of RME adi 2 dac.
May I ask what Vrms/ mW@ohm I should be looking for?

Thanks a lot.


----------



## SLMStyles

nlths said:


> Hi, I am looking for a DAP that have at least matching output power with the IEM jack of RME adi 2 dac.
> May I ask what Vrms/ mW@ohm I should be looking for?
> 
> Thanks a lot.


Finding a DAP with at least the output power should be easy.  Honestly, probably every single one.  The RME is known for having a fantastic clean/quiet IEM jack, not for It’s high power.


----------



## technobear

nlths said:


> Hi, I am looking for a DAP that have at least matching output power with the IEM jack of RME adi 2 dac.
> May I ask what Vrms/ mW@ohm I should be looking for?
> 
> Thanks a lot.


According to the user manual, the IEM output goes up to -3dBu which is 0.55V.

Power will depend on the impedance of the IEM. For a 16ohm IEM, it will be 0.55 x 0.55 / 16 = 19mW


----------



## Matias

nlths said:


> Hi, I am looking for a DAP that have at least matching output power with the IEM jack of RME adi 2 dac.
> May I ask what Vrms/ mW@ohm I should be looking for?
> 
> Thanks a lot.


Maybe a Hidizs S8 + smartphone?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dizs-s8-usb-c-headphone-adapter-review.10823/


----------



## nlths

Matias said:


> Maybe a Hidizs S8 + smartphone?
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dizs-s8-usb-c-headphone-adapter-review.10823/


thanks! will try this combo out.


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer (Jan 8, 2021)

I am new to this thread and I need help. My adi-2 pro fs only plays constantly at 48.0 sample rate for all tracks how can i resolve this so it always play at its natural sample rates?  Thanks


----------



## Forsaked

Emmanuel Palmer said:


> I am new to this thread and I need help. My adi-2 pro fs only plays constantly at 48.0 sample rate for all tracks how can i resolve this so it always play at its natural sample rates?  Thanks



What playback software do u use?
The Software needs to support ASIO or WASAPI to archive this.


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

Forsaked said:


> What playback software do u use?
> The Software needs to support ASIO or WASAPI to archive this.


Hi
Am using the normal tidal app from my laptop. Thanks


----------



## Forsaked (Jan 8, 2021)

Emmanuel Palmer said:


> Hi
> Am using the normal tidal app from my laptop. Thanks



Tidal Desktop is broken in this regard, it only uses WASAPI but does not support frequency switching.
Something like Roon or Audirvana support Tidal accounts, but those are not cheap.
Audirvana costs 100€ per Version, but lifetime for it.
While Roon costs 100€ a year or 570€ for lifetime, but you get always the newest version.


----------



## gugges

I use Tidal on Mac and all you need to do is go to Tidal > Settings > Set the sound output to the ADI and make sure to select “Exclusive Mode”. Hope that works for you!


----------



## gugges (Jan 8, 2021)

Forsaked said:


> Tidal Desktop is broken in this regard, it only uses WASAPI but does not support frequency switching.



The RME ADI 2 actually does switch automatically for me on Tidal with the above setup in exclusive mode, either 88khz or 96khz depending on the quality of the MQA track. Can’t speak for the pro, or for Windows OS, but at least on Mac it should work fine


----------



## kylebucksot

having a blast impact injury, my left and right hearing levels are drastically different. is there an ability to boost or lower the left and right channel independently?


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

gugges said:


> I use Tidal on Mac and all you need to do is go to Tidal > Settings > Set the sound output to the ADI and make sure to select “Exclusive Mode”. Hope that works for you!


I use windows 10, I already have those settings correctly, with other dacs it switches automatically but with my rme it doesn't


----------



## betula

kylebucksot said:


> having a blast impact injury, my left and right hearing levels are drastically different. is there an ability to boost or lower the left and right channel independently?


There is an option to change channel balance.


----------



## kylebucksot

betula said:


> There is an option to change channel balance.


Great thank you!


----------



## technobear (Jan 8, 2021)

Emmanuel Palmer said:


> I use windows 10, I already have those settings correctly, with other dacs it switches automatically but with my rme it doesn't


That is because you are playing sound through the Windows audio system. It will resample to whatever rate is set in the Sound Control Panel for the RME.

You need to use an app that supports WASAPI or ASIO to get automatic switching.

Edited to add it is not the RME that is switching. It is Windows. The RME just plays what it receives.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Nice. So Matthias says the RME does swing enough power into the 600 and 650 (voltage?) to make them shine.



Jokingly, why the heck does he have a 6XX and not a 650, in Europe?


----------



## Dogmatrix

My theory on Senn synergy has to do with output impedance .
Back when the HD series , Beyer DT series and some AKG were designed the engineering standard for output impedance was 70 Ohms . Headphone amps as we know them now were very rare , most people used the output from an integrated amp or receiver . Amps and receivers of the day predominantly used a tap on the speaker output and a resistor  for the headphone connection . Such a set up was convenient and low cost for the manufacturer but generally produced a high impedance output due to the necessary resistor . Fortunately headphone manufacturers were aware and tuned their headphones accordingly . Fast forward to today and dedicated headphone amps are common , the accepted standard for output impedance is less than 1 Ohm (not tube amps)  . So it is no surprise to me that headphones from a bygone era may sound a little off and I see no fault on the part of RME .
Again , just my theory


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Emmanuel Palmer said:


> Hi
> Am using the normal tidal app from my laptop. Thanks


Install the RME drivers. It is not explained very well and is sort of a pain in the ass compared to other device drivers since they don't give you a disk or any instructions.

Go to the website and download the firmware and USB drivers. When it works, the settings for the Windows sound device will have no effect.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> Nice. So Matthias says the RME does swing enough power into the 600 and 650 (voltage?) to make them shine.
> 
> 
> 
> Jokingly, why the heck does he have a 6XX and not a 650, in Europe?



He's wrong. 

If he tries them out of a V280/281 driven by his DAC he'll change his tune


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

gimmeheadroom said:


> He's wrong.
> 
> If he tries them out of a V280/281 driven by his DAC he'll change his tune


LOL  HAHAHA


----------



## Lolito

gimmeheadroom said:


> That comparison is meaningless. Would you feel better spending 100 euros on an amp for a 1700 euro pair of headphones?
> 
> The point was not how much a good amp costs but rather how good the 600/650/6XX are that they scale with better and better amps.
> 
> ...


what comparisson are you talking about? I made no comparison. Do you know how to read??? I said, I would use that amp as soon as anyone sends me one for free to my address, not gonna buy a 1700€ headphone amp, my full laptop costed me 900€ 4 years ago and has a headphone amp. Not gonna spend 2000€ on an amp, even if i pee lemonade if i own it.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lolito said:


> what comparisson are you talking about? I made no comparison.



You did. You're trying to say there's a magic ratio between how much you should spend on an amp given the price of headphones. To my knowledge nobody has ever published a specification for that.



Lolito said:


> Do you know how to read???



It kinda hard to talk to you sometimes, buddy 



Lolito said:


> I said, I would use that amp as soon as anyone sends me one for free to my address, not gonna buy a 1700€ headphone amp, my full laptop costed me 900€ 4 years ago and has a headphone amp. Not gonna spend 2000€ on an amp, even if i pee lemonade if i own it.



That has no bearing on how much an amp should cost based on the price of headphones and contrary to our wishes, good stuff is most often more expensive than stuff which is not as good


----------



## DomieMic65

Hi there.. Happy New Year to all!!!
As a DAC only how would you compare ADI-2 DAC fs to the cord Qutest?
If there are any posts comparing them here I would appreciate to redirect me to them... I have read some pages but the thread is quite big!
The usage will be mainly on a main loudspeaker system. Even though I use cans (HD600 || HD25Alu || Sine) for this I am interested mainly for speakers.
The headphone output is a great to have though (and with such features)!!
Anyway... sound wise against Qutest for speaker system ... if you may your comments please gentlemen!!
Thanks!!!


----------



## dk604

Hey guys so I'm thinking of getting the RME ADI 2-DAC FS. Only thing holding me back is I'm curious about how would it stack up against an R2R DAC. Would love to hear your thoughts. 

I currently have the Hifiman Arya and I was thinking of pairing it with the RME ADI 2-DAC FS. Would anyone be able to share some insight on how it would sound and if they're a good match? Was also considering getting an A90 AMP to pair with the RME ADI 2-DAC FS and was wondering if that would pair well and if the upgrade is negligible or actually worth it.


----------



## dk604

DomieMic65 said:


> Hi there.. Happy New Year to all!!!
> As a DAC only how would you compare ADI-2 DAC fs to the cord Qutest?
> If there are any posts comparing them here I would appreciate to redirect me to them... I have read some pages but the thread is quite big!
> The usage will be mainly on a main loudspeaker system. Even though I use cans (HD600 || HD25Alu || Sine) for this I am interested mainly for speakers.
> ...



Hey there I personally don't know much but I did see a youtube video yesterday for a direct comparison video featuring both the Chord Cutest and the RME ADI-2 DAC by an australian youtuber.


----------



## DomieMic65

dk604 said:


> Hey there I personally don't know much but I did see a youtube video yesterday for a direct comparison video featuring both the Chord Cutest and the RME ADI-2 DAC by an australian youtuber.



Yes I have seen this video... Several times! 🙂


----------



## Gene4797

Hey guys, I have a question, do you know how to do factory reset, because after I played with Dac show up distortion and generally it start to sound much worth it was before, if the any body knows I’ll be really appreciate


----------



## elisiX

It's in the manual. I believe from the Setup screen with a certain button dual button press.

Haven't done it for a while but that's what comes to mind.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

dk604 said:


> Hey guys so I'm thinking of getting the RME ADI 2-DAC FS. Only thing holding me back is I'm curious about how would it stack up against an R2R DAC. Would love to hear your thoughts.
> 
> I currently have the Hifiman Arya and I was thinking of pairing it with the RME ADI 2-DAC FS. Would anyone be able to share some insight on how it would sound and if they're a good match? Was also considering getting an A90 AMP to pair with the RME ADI 2-DAC FS and was wondering if that would pair well and if the upgrade is negligible or actually worth it.


It's one of the more musical DACs I have heard and I can't imagine it not being a good match with anything except for the fact you will want a separate amp for certain cans.

You probably can't generalize much about RME vs R2R. I'm sure not all R2R DACs sound the same. People who hear the Soekris find them a little dry sometimes, or clinical (resolving). Denefrips is said to be softer. My low-end Audio-gd is organic and very musical with good transients. Not sure well the RME or any dacamp at that price range would drive the Arya, looks like the sensitivity is pretty low.

The Violectrics have plenty enough grunt for the Arya and you could also look into a tube hybrid that has enough power.


----------



## technobear

Gene4797 said:


> Hey guys, I have a question, do you know how to do factory reset, because after I played with Dac show up distortion and generally it start to sound much worth it was before, if the any body knows I’ll be really appreciate


Do you have the power cable inserted correctly. It's a locking plug.


----------



## Matias (Jan 12, 2021)

Darko also has his opinion on RME ADI-2 DAC fs versus Chord Qutest. Starts about 11:35.


----------



## Matias (Jan 12, 2021)

By the way I compared the stock power supply to the old version iFi iPower 12V and the latter is clearly better. Less digital glare, better defined bass. A no brainer upgrade in my opinion.

Now add these impressions of mine with Darko's review above, and I can assume that the ADI-2 DAC would come closer to the warmer tonality of the Qutest. For only +100 usd of the iPower, so still cheaper than the Qutest, while keeping all the other RME pros.

I am still waiting for my new version iFi iPower X 12V to arrive, I expect it should be a little better than the old version. I just hate that it is white and not black anymore....


----------



## Gene4797

technobear said:


> Do you have the power cable inserted correctly. It's a locking plug.


I know what are you talking about, but I’m not sure about my cable, I got my unit through EBay, it was in perfect condition but seems to me power cable with out luck, when I’ll get home I’ll make sure, when I got Dac it sounded perfect but after I played....  , I just screwed up by myself and now just one way to fix it , I think, just reset it, thank you


----------



## gugges

DomieMic65 said:


> Hi there.. Happy New Year to all!!!
> As a DAC only how would you compare ADI-2 DAC fs to the cord Qutest?


If you are looking for an all in one that is going to save a lot of space on your desk, the ADI-2 is probably one of the best all rounders you can buy. Also I find the visualizer really helpful to make sense of music and really level up your own understanding of the frequencies you are hearing which leads to better EQing etc. Really good headphones like the ZMF Vérité Closed don't really need any EQ though, so also consider if you find your headphones lacking in any way where the RME's EQ can add value.

Since it seems that you are mainly using it for speakers and therefore will use a standalone amp, it may make more sense to get a Qutest or Bifrost2 (which is half as much as Qutest and is very well regarded). Reviews of these DACs in comparison to the RME highlight them both having more musicality and natural timbre.


----------



## creed2

Dk604 I have the RME version 2 and MHDT Orchid. Both are very nice but different. I use both in a speaker system. The RME is very clean and detailed, Orchid has rolled off highs and can come across with deeper and fuller soundstage but can't dig as deep for detail or information. Orchid can also sound more natural or musical on some recordings. I did add a Teddy Pardo power supply on RME, it did help with soundstage, made it sound fuller, more musical and noise floor dropped which in turn help with detail, very worth the investment. The Orchid sounds good with less complex music but when things get busy things can fall apart. Not so with RME no matter how fast or complex music gets everything stays together. Can't beat all the features with the RME. I like both and would not be without either of them depending on what mood I'm in.


----------



## gugges

Matias said:


> By the way I compared the stock power supply to the old version iFi iPower 12V and the latter is clearly better. Less digital glare, better defined bass. A no brainer upgrade in my opinion.





creed2 said:


> I did add a Teddy Pardo power supply on RME, it did help with soundstage, made it sound fuller, more musical and noise floor dropped which in turn help with detail, very worth the investment.



How do you guys feel about the contrarians that say the power supply doesn't make a difference, like in this thread?
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28734

For $100 I am tempted to get the iFi plug just to hear for myself, but curious your thoughts at how pronounced the change is and if you think you could tell in blind comparison


----------



## Matias (Jan 12, 2021)

gugges said:


> How do you guys feel about the contrarians that say the power supply doesn't make a difference, like in this thread?
> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28734
> 
> For $100 I am tempted to get the iFi plug just to hear for myself, but curious your thoughts at how pronounced the change is and if you think you could tell in blind comparison


I will not go into this objective vs subjective rabbit hole. As I said, in my opinion, the iPower X is a no brainer, highly recommended. I  suggest you order it from somewhere that allows you to return it, and test it for yourself.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

creed2 said:


> Dk604 I have the RME version 2 and MHDT Orchid. Both are very nice but different. I use both in a speaker system. The RME is very clean and detailed, Orchid has rolled off highs and can come across with deeper and fuller soundstage but can't dig as deep for detail or information. Orchid can also sound more natural or musical on some recordings. I did add a Teddy Pardo power supply on RME, it did help with soundstage, made it sound fuller, more musical and noise floor dropped which in turn help with detail, very worth the investment. The Orchid sounds good with less complex music but when things get busy things can fall apart. Not so with RME no matter how fast or complex music gets everything stays together. Can't beat all the features with the RME. I like both and would not be without either of them depending on what mood I'm in.



What? The RME with the stock PSU is noisy? That's absolute news to me from my own experience with the unit for the past 24 months. And pretty much everyone else seems to say that it is a standard in pitch black no noise performance. Or am I misunderstanding the term noise floor?


----------



## creed2

I never thought RME power supply was noisy. I did think the RME soundstage was lacking so I bought the Teddy Pardo to hopefully help. It did help a lot in my system everything became bigger and deeper. It was also obvious the dac was much quieter with Teddy Pardo, I run both Orchid and RME off a Auralic streamer the RME is much quieter than Orchid, with or without the Teddy Pardo, it's very obvious.


----------



## dk604

Can anyone speak to the quality of the amp for the RME ADI 2 PRO FS R? Is it the same as the previous iterations or is there an upgrade there? Also what amp would it be comparable to and what would you consider to be a decent upgrade?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

dk604 said:


> Can anyone speak to the quality of the amp for the RME ADI 2 PRO FS R? Is it the same as the previous iterations or is there an upgrade there? Also what amp would it be comparable to and what would you consider to be a decent upgrade?


There's a separate thread for the Pro version. I don't think anybody can complain about the quality of the amp. But you may need more amp depending on which headphones you want to use with it.


----------



## Matias

gimmeheadroom said:


> There's a separate thread for the Pro version. I don't think anybody can complain about the quality of the amp. But you may need more amp depending on which headphones you want to use with it.


Agreed, and remember there is the High Power mode in ADI-2 DAC, and if that is not enough, the ADI-2 Pro can use both outputs as balanced for even more power.

As usual the manual is just awesome.


----------



## gazzington

So does this have enough power for headphones such as hd6xx or would I need an amp with it?


----------



## Forsaked

gazzington said:


> So does this have enough power for headphones such as hd6xx or would I need an amp with it?



It has more then enougth power to drive the HD6XX to listening levels, which makes you hearing impaired.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

gazzington said:


> So does this have enough power for headphones such as hd6xx or would I need an amp with it?


It does not drive the HD 600/650/6XX well. It can get loud enough but a good external amp will sound a lot better.


----------



## Matias

gimmeheadroom said:


> It does not drive the HD 600/650/6XX well. It can get loud enough but a good external amp will sound a lot better.


Even with the ADI-2 DAC in High Power, still it sounds a lot better in a good external amp in your experience?


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 13, 2021)

Matias said:


> Even with the ADI-2 DAC in High Power, still it sounds a lot better in a good external amp in your experience?


Yes, definitely. My RME has been set to High Power mode from the moment I got it.

It does great with the LCD-2C, really nice with LCD-3F, super with Fostex, Sennheiser HD 25. Just does not work well for me with 300 ohm Sennheisers.

Edited totally misleading typo! Sorry guys.


----------



## iFi audio

Matias said:


> I just hate that it is white and not black anymore....



You're not alone in this and we hear you


----------



## Matias

iFi audio said:


> You're not alone in this and we hear you


Too late as I already ordered the white version, waiting to receive it. Even if the black is out now I won't be changing, so I am stuck with white... 1st world problems, I know.


----------



## gikigill

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yes, definitely. My RME has been set to High Power mode from the moment I got it.
> 
> It does great with the LCD-2C, really nice with LCD-3F, super with Fostex, Sennheiser HD 25. Just does not work well for me with 300 ohm Sennheisers.
> 
> Edited totally misleading typo! Sorry guys.



I tested the Beyer DT1990/1770, Sennheisers HD800/650/58X to test high impedance headphones and they all got plenty loud. Loud enough to be uncomfortable in 15 seconds. All had a 3db boost applied in bass to stress the RME a bit and the 6.35mm jack was used.

Check the headphone cables or the drivers as they might be shot. It's kinda unbelievable that the RME can't power the HD600. I could get hold of a pair of HD600 in a few days to test it out for myself.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Again it is not about driving them loudly, it's about driving them well. The RME does not get along with 300 ohm Sennheisers.


----------



## gikigill

How do you define well. 

If it's hitting 90db with a 6db bass boost at 50-80hz , what else is it missing.


----------



## technobear

gikigill said:


> I tested the Beyer DT1990/1770, Sennheisers HD800/650/58X to test high impedance headphones and they all got plenty loud. Loud enough to be uncomfortable in 15 seconds. All had a 3db boost applied in bass to stress the RME a bit and the 6.35mm jack was used.
> 
> Check the headphone cables or the drivers as they might be shot. It's kinda unbelievable that the RME can't power the HD600. I could get hold of a pair of HD600 in a few days to test it out for myself.


Please bear in mind that gimmeheadroom is the only person on this forum who thinks that the RME doesn't sound great with the HD600 and HD650. It seems to be a big thing with him as he has posted it with monotonous regularity for a long time now but nobody else chimes in to agree - quite the reverse in fact.


----------



## DomieMic65

I suppose the sound quality... ?
Whatever this may mean to different people...


----------



## gikigill

DomieMic65 said:


> I suppose the sound quality... ?
> Whatever this may mean to different people...



Yup, the sound signature might be it as the HD series seems to be plenty powered by the RME.


----------



## gikigill

technobear said:


> Please bear in mind that gimmeheadroom is the only person on this forum who thinks that the RME doesn't sound great with the HD600 and HD650. It seems to be a big thing with him as he has posted it with monotonous regularity for a long time now but nobody else chimes in to agree - quite the reverse in fact.



Considering the powerful EQ/PEQ, the RME can tune the HD6 series any which way. I fed the Emotiva A100 BasX from the RME for a few planars and the tweaking of the EQ reflects through the power of the BasX.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

gikigill said:


> How do you define well.
> 
> If it's hitting 90db with a 6db bass boost at 50-80hz , what else is it missing.


The actual sound quality. Sorry, I don't believe in audio scientology 

What else have you listened to a pair of 600s out of?


----------



## gikigill

Asgard 3, Meridian Prime, Chord Mojo, ifi IDSD Black Label, Schiit Valhalla with the Bifrost Multibit, LHL Pulse xfi femto EDITION, Grace M9XX and Musical Fidelity V90 besides the RME.  

Some impart a bit of warmth while some are more analytical and the RME in stock condition is more analytical and can be warmed up with some EQ.


----------



## Spie1904

Anyone tried the RME with a ZMF Verite closed?
Looking to set up a desktop system with the ZMF.


----------



## bagno

Unfortunately, I didn't listen to Verite with RME, but the ZMF headphones are very musical like AQ NH, so it should be ok. Question is what you expect from sound   As always, it's best to test on your own ears so that you won't be disappointed later.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

gikigill said:


> Asgard 3, Meridian Prime, Chord Mojo, ifi IDSD Black Label, Schiit Valhalla with the Bifrost Multibit, LHL Pulse xfi femto EDITION, Grace M9XX and Musical Fidelity V90 besides the RME.
> 
> Some impart a bit of warmth while some are more analytical and the RME in stock condition is more analytical and can be warmed up with some EQ.


Valhalla 2 or 1st one? My Valhalla 2 sounds way better than the RME out of my 600s. Not sure about the V90 but most of the rest of those don't have enough horsepower for the 600s.


----------



## gikigill

If the Asgard 3 and the ifi can't power your HD600, then you have a broken pair or you have substantial hearing loss.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Just goes to show there is no way to talk with audio scientologists. The only thing that matters are calculations. How things sound is off the table.


----------



## gugges (Jan 14, 2021)

Spie1904 said:


> Anyone tried the RME with a ZMF Verite closed?
> Looking to set up a desktop system with the ZMF.



I have the VCs paired with the RME and I think it sounds great in either low or high power mode. I bought the RME because it is a super solid all-in-one and I don't have a ton of desk space. I think that if I could have a more dedicated setup I would opt for the Bifrost2 + Pendant. Based on reactions from the community, it is a great combo with the VC.

I have a friend who also has the VC and tested them heavily between the Woo WA7+TP <> Chord Hugo2 <> RME. He said he would rank them:


> Hugo + Tubes > RME + tubes == Hugo Only > RME only. But I would stress that even the “worst” one there (RME only) is really, really good.



That said, most people say that the VC only gets better and better with nicer equipment. It scales super well.

As for the whole loudness conversation.... The RME amp has 1.5 watts per channel which is pretty good, but higher wattage will help change the timbre and tonality of the VC. Loudness isn't the only factor and to be honest the whole formula of amplifier impedance / watts / current I have not yet fully wrapped my mind around.


----------



## iFi audio

Matias said:


> Even if the black is out now



It's not coming out (or best case scenario not soon), but I'm aware that many folks weren't crazy about white  

Sorry for this off-top all


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 14, 2021)

gugges said:


> I have the VCs paired with the RME and I think it sounds great in either low or high power mode. I bought the RME because it is a super solid all-in-one and I don't have a ton of desk space. I think that if I could have a more dedicated setup I would opt for the Bifrost2 + Pendant. Based on reactions from the community, it is a great combo with the VC.
> 
> I have a friend who also has the VC and tested them heavily between the Woo WA7+TP <> Chord Hugo2 <> RME. He said he would rank them:
> 
> ...


It's not wattage directly that seems to have the influence on the performance of high impedance dynamics but rather the voltage component of wattage. That seems to be why they do well on tubes and out of solid state amps that can swing enough voltage.

And I wasn't having a loudness conversation.

I was having a quality of sound conversation, but a few people missed it. Badly.


----------



## linearly

This post will be a bit offtopic since I will be talking mainly about my music transport and less about the ADI-2 but working on my audio chain made the RME sound on a different level entirely. What I'm about to share is what I've found by doing different tests in my setup and my personal opinion so take it as is.

I'm using my gaming PC (Asus Prime Z270-A MB) as audio source/transport for my RME ADI-2. I've learned by doing tests for several years that almost everything matters in audio, everything adds a few %'s in sound quality. For my audio chain I'm using the Matrix Element H pci usb card powered by a Linear Power Supply, this goes to the Matrix X-SPDIF 2 that connects to the RME via Coax. Comparing it with direct USB from PC to the RME this upgrade adds a bit of clarity to the sound and makes it sound less harsh, the USB implementation on the RME is very good. If you find the sound a bit harsh you can try the optical toslink, gets very close to the Matrix chain. The differences here are very small, but worth it for me.

What I found that made a very big difference in sound was my ethernet chain. From outside it is connected via fiber optics but my router had a switching psu. I had a Linear psu so I tested it to see if it does something. Acording to the 'experts' ethernet is immune to noise etc. and it should sound the same. Well for me it did NOT sound the same. The difference between the power supplies was very big, the sound was again much better, more analog in nature, less harsh. This was a big upgrade. You can also test this by preloading a song and unplug the ethernet cable from the PC, this should stop the noise and see if it sounds better in your system.

With the last upgrade I thought I was done with the network part of my audio chain by using the Linear psu for the router. Recently saw a video about audiophile network cards with test songs and by listening to that video the differences were again very obvious for me. But since my bias was against it I had to test it myself and see. All this because I've read many forums on what the 'experts' had to say about networking and audio, that it should not make a difference, that everything is a scam etc. So the next step was to see if my motherboard ethernet connection was the problem, and this was easy. I bought a cheap PCI-E ethernet card AXAGON Gigabit PCEE-GRH for 10 euros. Honestly I had no expectation but since it was so cheap I had to test it and see. Well that was easy, installed it and it worked w/o any drivers. The first song with the new card and I was in awe. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Everything sounded so much better, music had more body to it, more texture, cleaner with no harshness, a very big upgrade to my audio chain with just 10 euros by using a network card instead of my motherboard's ethernet connector.

Since the 'experts' said it was not possible to sound different and I found it does, and by a lot, naturally I had to step it up to an audio specific network card where I could use a linear psu. I've decided to get the JCAT NET Card XE, this was the card used in the video I saw with the test songs. Installed it with a bit of problems the pci bracket is a bit misaligned so I can't screw it into the case. Getting past that issue, I didn't have a 5V Linear psu so had to power it via Molex from PC. I expected to sound a bit better then my other cheap network card, but I was wrong again. Honestly I've never in this hobby experienced a bigger sound upgrade like this one. I could not believe it how much of an impact it has on the sound. A veil is lifted from the sound, everything sounds more analog, no harshness, I've heard things in songs that I have never heard before. The instruments sound more lifelike, voices have an amazing texture to them. There is a decay to the instruments, just addictive. And all of this while using PC power via Molex, can't imagine what a good linear psu will do to the sound. A few years back I had the Chord DAVE with the HD800S headphones, with the chain I have now by adding the JCAT NET Card XE the RME ADI-2 sounds like it plays in the same league as the DAVE, but I prefer it more as it doesn't force the sound to you, it is more relaxing in nature.

If I was to believe the 'experts' I would have not discovered how much of an impact a network card had in my system.  There is a lot of people that say this doesn't work without testing it themselves, always use your ears to test things out, I regret it that I hadn't found out this sooner. And about the RME ADI-2, just amazing, honestly I can't find any fault to the sound anymore, it sounds analog, lifelike, no harshness, just incredible. Now I'm patiently waiting for the RME 'ADI-3' as my next DAC upgrade.


----------



## gikigill

gimmeheadroom said:


> It's not wattage directly that seems to have the influence on the performance of high impedance dynamics but rather the voltage component of wattage. That seems to be why they do well on tubes and out of solid state amps that can swing enough voltage.
> 
> And I wasn't having a loudness conversation.
> 
> I was having a quality of sound conversation, but a few people missed it. Badly.



While you're at it, lookup how much current AND voltage the Asgard 3 and ifi can swing in different modes. 

You might not like their sound signature/tonality but talking about current and voltage levels does not apply here since they will drive the HD600 to the point of melting it's thin coils.

When it comes to tube amps, it's the 2nd order harmonic distortion that makes the HD series work well with them, not the current or voltage as I also have a Bottlehead SEX which will drive the HD600 to its melting point as the SEX can power small speakers.

I assure you that your ears or the HD600 are broken and end this conversation. You don't have any idea what you are after and sound like just part of the tired old Sennheiser brigade who still believes that the Sennheisers need some magic dust to work properly. 

It's a 20 year old argument and you're not breaking new ground here as I have seen folks spend thousands on amps to power the HD series chasing that dragon of some magical sound that appears from these when you power them with unobtainium amps.

Back to RME discussion now.


----------



## G8torbyte

linearly said:


> Now I'm patiently waiting for the RME 'ADI-3' as my next DAC upgrade.


Any insight or news on the next version?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

G8torbyte said:


> Any insight or news on the next version?



Why, what's missing in the current version? Honest question.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> Why, what's missing in the current version? Honest question.


thankfully RME isn't that kind of company


----------



## bagno

CaptainFantastic said:


> Why, what's missing in the current version? Honest question.




if I had to attach to something, maybe bluetooth? D anyone has other ideas ?


----------



## Matias (Jan 15, 2021)

I think they updated the V2 only because AKM released a direct replacement DAC chip (AK4493 is pin compatible to the older AK4490), probably similar prices, so why not? Just add a fancier remote control and call it an update. Other than a new product entirely, I don't see much to improve in the ADI-2. More processing power for more PEQ bands would be nice though.


----------



## Hinomotocho

bagno said:


> if I had to attach to something, maybe bluetooth? D anyone has other ideas ?


Balanced output with 4.4mm


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Hinomotocho said:


> Balanced output with 4.4mm



Balanced would mean roughly 50 to 75% more parts (dedicated parts for each channel). The unit would cost much more. You realize balanced doesn't offer any advantages? The crazy idea comes from people seeing that balanced provides better results on units that have both balanced and SE. Of course on those balanced will sound better, balanced in that unit has more power. But an RME balanced at the same price point as the current SE model would sound worse.


----------



## Hinomotocho

CaptainFantastic said:


> Balanced would mean roughly 50 to 75% more parts (dedicated parts for each channel). The unit would cost much more. You realize balanced doesn't offer any advantages? The crazy idea comes from people seeing that balanced provides better results on units that have both balanced and SE. Of course on those balanced will sound better, balanced in that unit has more power. But an RME balanced at the same price point as the current SE model would sound worse.


Actually, my main selfish motivation is that for convenience my main listening is a Sony WM1A and my iems and headphones are 4.4m. As many amps like Topping and iFi etc have a 4.4mm output I just wanted to throw it out there. I am entirely happy with single ended output.


----------



## betula (Jan 15, 2021)

CaptainFantastic said:


> Balanced would mean roughly 50 to 75% more parts (dedicated parts for each channel). The unit would cost much more. You realize balanced doesn't offer any advantages? The crazy idea comes from people seeing that balanced provides better results on units that have both balanced and SE. Of course on those balanced will sound better, balanced in that unit has more power. But an RME balanced at the same price point as the current SE model would sound worse.


Very true. It is almost like there has been a religious cult growing around the superiority of balanced output which was left to thrive on the ground of ignorance and aggressive marketing. I tried and owned many amps and DACs from $100 to $5000 including cheap balanced gear and expensive SE.

Mostly because of marketing these days folks think balanced equals higher quality. Well, it is not. It (usually) equals more power but that power can be unclean and unrefined on cheaper gear. I wish at least third of Head-Fi community would understand this. It is all about implementation. Not about output type.
As a rule of thumb I would avoid sub $500 balanced gear. Between $500 and $2000 (where most of us do their shopping) balanced indeed usually sounds better. Cleaner, crisper, more powerful and more spacious. This was my experience with the CMA600i or the Taurus MKII.
But as you enter summit-fi like the Chord TT2 a single ended output can destroy all the mid-fi balanced amps.

It is not about SE vs. balanced. It is about implementation, parts used building the device and synergy.


----------



## elisiX

I’ve got a question about the potential pairing of the RME ADI-2 and Matrix X-SPDIF 2. Ultimately I am trying to see if it’s worth me adding the X-SPDIF between my MacBook Pro and RME.

Currently my MacBook Pro is connected to a CalDigit TS3+ hub which allows for optical, latest USB-A/C formats etc. With so few connections available on the MacBook Pro, it’s a godsend. I’m worried however it might be getting in the way so to speak. I’m not hearing anything that tells me this, I’m more curious and think it might be worth simplifying the chain.

Which makes the most sense?

1. MBP >Thunderbolt> CalDigit TS3+ >USB-A to USB-B> RME/V281/WA2 (current)

2. MBP >USB-C to USB-B> X-SPDIF 2 >Optical or Coax> RME/V281/WA2

3. MBP >USB-C to USB B> RME/V281/WA2

In scenarios 2 and 3 i’d still use the main thunderbolt connection to the dock for other purposes, but I would use the second port on the MacBook Pro to connect directly to the Matrix (2) or RME (3). Is there any point or stick with what I’ve got?

The other thing I just realised is how this Matrix box simplifies all audio from my MacBook Pro to my DAC/AMP and KEF LSX. Assuming I go with option 2 above, I use a dedicated USB-C port on the MBP into Matrix, but then Optical (toslink) to the LSX and Coax to the RME. One device in the middle handling my entire setup without having to go through a powered dock.

The only issue with the optical into LSX route is the lack of simple volume control. Optical requires you to use the LSX remote or KEF app. Currently I use AUX into my LSX from the V281 pre-out giving me that big chunky volume control.

Thoughts welcomed and appreciated!


----------



## NickMimi (Jan 16, 2021)

I use a 2015 mac book pro via roon >matrix x-spidif 2 > rme adi fs2 and other various dac’s and then multiple amps. I would get some noise from the mac hard drive and my back-up drive when i was usb direct to my dac’s. The matrix has alleviated those noises and provides a blacker background, i feel, for the audio signal path. It was worth every penny to me, especially with the higher end amps and dac’s which seem to be much more sensitive to the slightest irregularities or “dirt” in the audio signal path. I can replicate the results by simply removing the matrix and going usb direct to several of my dac’s thus this combo is a keeper for me and my set-up.
1 issue i do have often is that i have to either shut down completely or unplug the usb that goes to the matrix when i have 4 dac’s connected, in order to reset the matrix so it knows which dac is on and to choose it. I believe this happens because i do NOT keep all audio pieces powered up simultaneously ONLY the chain i will be using. This is due to an over abundance of caution and because i have blown pieces In the pastby making mistakes, so i learned my lesson and ONLY power up the chain i want to listen to for a particular session. YMMV, good luck and happy listening. These are my experiences only and may not apply to your situation or particulars.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

betula said:


> Very true. It is almost like there has been a religious cult growing around the superiority of balanced output which was left to thrive on the ground of ignorance and aggressive marketing. I tried and owned many amps and DACs from $100 to $5000 including cheap balanced gear and expensive SE.
> 
> Mostly because of marketing these days folks think balanced equals higher quality. Well, it is not. It (usually) equals more power but that power can be unclean and unrefined on cheaper gear. I wish at least third of Head-Fi community would understand this. It is all about implementation. Not about output type.
> As a rule of thumb I would avoid sub $500 balanced gear. Between $500 and $2000 (where most of us do their shopping) balanced indeed usually sounds better. Cleaner, crisper, more powerful and more spacious. This was my experience with the CMA600i or the Taurus MKII.
> ...


I agree that in cheap gear it is marketing and will not sound any better than SE. But maybe it's trickle down from pro gear (this is the RME thread after all) and on pro gear there is a benefit in reduced noise over long cable runs, electrically noisy environments. So it really depends on exactly which gear whether it's better or not. For example Violectric believes strongly in balanced headamps.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> Balanced would mean roughly 50 to 75% more parts (dedicated parts for each channel). The unit would cost much more. You realize balanced doesn't offer any advantages? The crazy idea comes from people seeing that balanced provides better results on units that have both balanced and SE. Of course on those balanced will sound better, balanced in that unit has more power. But an RME balanced at the same price point as the current SE model would sound worse.


It does offer advantages. But not everybody needs it.


----------



## betula (Jan 16, 2021)

gimmeheadroom said:


> It does offer advantages. But not everybody needs it.


IMO advantages depends on price bracket. Up to around 2K balanced definitely brings a better sound compared to similarly priced SE. But the whole SE/BAL discursion is not that simple. 2K+ SE actually beats most sub 2K BAL.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

betula said:


> IMO advantages depends on price bracket. Up to around 2K balanced definitely brings a better sound compared to similarly priced SE. But the whole SE/BAL discursion is not that simple. 2K+ SE actually beats most sub 2K BAL.


That's kinda what I said but I don't know there is a price point. To me it's more good SE gear is better than bad balanced gear. I think in the end we agree


----------



## G8torbyte

CaptainFantastic said:


> Why, what's missing in the current version? Honest question.


Same here, I was asking out of curiosity if there was any truth to a new version coming from RME.  I've been using the ADI-2 DAC for over two years and been very satisfied with the performance.  I don't mind the frequent firmware and driver updates either as it shows their commitment to a continuous improvement program.  Navigating the menus is a learning experience and I keep the manual on-hand which thankfully is very informative.  If a redesign is in the future that would be my only suggestion to ease the user-interface.


----------



## uzi

Hey folks ... I'm looking to up my DAC game, and the ADI-2 DAC definitely sounds appealing.

My current main rigs:
SDAC -> Bottlehead Crack+Speedball -> HD800S
SDAC-B -> Burson Soloist -> Focal Clear
Fiio BTR3 -> UERM

(I've also got HD650, Hifiman HE-500, Denon AH-D2000, Beyer DT770 and more, but that's the main stuff.)

A couple of questions:

1) So I'm thinking of replacing the two SDACs with the one ADI-2 DAC ... I'm assuming I can simultaneously use both the RCA and XLR outputs on the back so I can listen via both the Bottlehead and the Burson at the same time, right? (I know the main difference between them is ~6dB, but meh... both my amps have volume controls.)

2) I've read that the ADI-2 treats all of the outputs as unique and lets you set things differently for each. I figure the headphone, IEM, and outs on the back are treated as separate ... are the RCA and XLR considered the same or different? Would I be able to have one set of settings for the RCA and another for the XLR? Might be nice to tweak things differently for the HD800S than the Clear... but then again, I might just enjoy the house sound.

Other than that, the idea of using it with my UERM is really appealing, as well as the overall versatility of the unit. I'm also open to suggestions if there are other units I should be looking into, but the ADI-2 DAC really seems to be a unique contender. (I'm a big fan of bang for the buck ... and nothing against the SDAC as it has definitely been that.)


----------



## Hinomotocho (Jan 17, 2021)

Does anyone use something like a Fiio BTA30 as a bluetooth receiver, or can please suggest a low priced option?
I would like to use it to connect with my Nvidia Shield for movies and music blu-rays.

*looks like the BTA30 is plagued with problems


----------



## gimmeheadroom

uzi said:


> Hey folks ... I'm looking to up my DAC game, and the ADI-2 DAC definitely sounds appealing.
> 
> My current main rigs:
> SDAC -> Bottlehead Crack+Speedball -> HD800S
> ...


1) yes
2) RCA and XLR considered the same.
3) RME is tremendously musical and has a lot of UI and tweaks. I think it's the best thousand dollars/euros anybody will ever spend on audio gear.


----------



## uzi

gimmeheadroom said:


> 1) yes
> 2) RCA and XLR considered the same.
> 3) RME is tremendously musical and has a lot of UI and tweaks. I think it's the best thousand dollars/euros anybody will ever spend on audio gear.



Cool, thanks for the info. I usually like to listen to stuff before I buy ... especially stuff this spendy, but this seems awesome enough for my needs that I've taken the leap. Just put in an order with an RME authorized dealer (and managed to get 'em to knock ~$150 off the price). I'll be a member of team ADI-2 on Thursday.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

uzi said:


> Cool, thanks for the info. I usually like to listen to stuff before I buy ... especially stuff this spendy, but this seems awesome enough for my needs that I've taken the leap. Just put in an order with an RME authorized dealer (and managed to get 'em to knock ~$150 off the price). I'll be a member of team ADI-2 on Thursday.


I can almost never hear anything before I buy it so I do a lot of research. I don't think I ever read anything less than positive about the RME. You will not be disappointed 

For us it is an advantage that we have some pro audio companies nearby so I know if there would be any issue it would be easy to send it for repair.


----------



## Cevisi

Dont forget that a balanced amp/dac can handle every channel with a separate dac chip thats where benefits like more control better sound less distortion start and is noticable over single ended

But there are also dacs that use one dac and do not really make a balanced circuit where every channel had its own data up and ground (thx 888,  topping, s.m.s.l and put a balanced output connector like 4.4 or 4 pin xlr at the end and call it balanced

Physical se has not a chance against a real dual dac seperate grounded R+ R- L+ L-  balance circuit


----------



## uzi

gimmeheadroom said:


> I can almost never hear anything before I buy it so I do a lot of research.



I am also a heavy researcher.



gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't think I ever read anything less than positive about the RME. You will not be disappointed



I noticed that as well... or those that didn't favor it versus something else still tended to really like it, just not as much as something else they liked more. The Chord Qutest seems frequently compared, but that unit is more expensive and less flexible ... and at the prices we're talking, I imagine we're well into the territory of diminishing returns.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

uzi said:


> I am also a heavy researcher.
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that as well... or those that didn't favor it versus something else still tended to really like it, just not as much as something else they liked more. The Chord Qutest seems frequently compared, but that unit is more expensive and less flexible ... and at the prices we're talking, I imagine we're well into the territory of diminishing returns.


In my experience the RME sound quality is as good or at least as enjoyable as more expensive DACs. The RME can be fiddly to set up though. It's a hifi product from a pro audio company so it is not the same as a hifi product from a hifi company. I guess some of the people who don't like it as much as something else may not have set it up properly.


----------



## realmassy

Can anyone recommend some headphones that are a good pair with the RME, without any additional amp?
I’m using the Anandas but I’d like to treat myself with something new


----------



## gimmeheadroom

realmassy said:


> Can anyone recommend some headphones that are a good pair with the RME, without any additional amp?
> I’m using the Anandas but I’d like to treat myself with something new


Great pairings: LCD-2C, Fostex TR, TH900


----------



## realmassy

Thanks..going to read some reviews 👍


----------



## svmusa

Can the lineout be fixed or variable for RCA/XLR outputs? Looking to see if I can use the volume control on the RME to drive my power amp.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 18, 2021)

By definition line out is fixed. RME has line out mode and variable output mode.

Yes you can do that but it is a really terrible idea unless you really mean power amp without a volume control.


----------



## Slaphead

svmusa said:


> Can the lineout be fixed or variable for RCA/XLR outputs? *Looking to see if I can use the volume control on the RME to drive my power amp.*



Yes you can, in fact the ADI-2 Pro, on which the ADI-2 DAC is heavily based, was designed to do exactly that, but with powered audio monitors, which are essentially power amps built into speakers, so no problems. That's exactly how I use mine.



gimmeheadroom said:


> By definition line out is fixed. RME has line out mode and variable output mode.
> 
> *Yes you can do that but it is a really terrible idea unless you really mean power amp without a volume control.*



The definition of a power amp is an amp without a volume control, and the RME ADI-2 is an excellent digital source pre-amp if one should choose to use it in that manner.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Slaphead said:


> Yes you can, in fact the ADI-2 Pro, on which the ADI-2 DAC is heavily based, was designed to do exactly that, but with powered audio monitors, which are essentially power amps built into speakers, so no problems. That's exactly how I use mine.
> 
> 
> 
> The definition of a power amp is an amp without a volume control, and the RME ADI-2 is an excellent digital source pre-amp if one should choose to use it in that manner.


I know what a power amp is and yet the term is misused by people all the time. There is no crime in clarifying it as part of the answer.


----------



## svmusa

Thx you all, surely going to go for this or the PRO version. I do have few power amps with no volume controls. This should fit the bill.


----------



## svmusa

Slaphead said:


> Yes you can, in fact the ADI-2 Pro, on which the ADI-2 DAC is heavily based, was designed to do exactly that, but with powered audio monitors, which are essentially power amps built into speakers, so no problems. That's exactly how I use mine.
> 
> 
> 
> The definition of a power amp is an amp without a volume control, and the RME ADI-2 is an excellent digital source pre-amp if one should choose to use it in that manner.



Thx, I have a crest audio 8002 and a CA9, not vintage but getting there and this will be an interesting device to connect and try them.


----------



## Tuneslover (Jan 18, 2021)

realmassy said:


> Can anyone recommend some headphones that are a good pair with the RME, without any additional amp?
> I’m using the Anandas but I’d like to treat myself with something new


I like my LCD-2C directly out of the RME too.


----------



## griga

How is the direct pairing with Focal Clears? Im looking for a desktop dac/amp. I would prefer to have only one box on my desk


----------



## Forsaked

griga said:


> How is the direct pairing with Focal Clears? Im looking for a desktop dac/amp. I would prefer to have only one box on my desk



I freaking love it!


----------



## Hinomotocho

I've been preoccupied with end of year/Christmas and now summer holidays since owning my ADI-2 FS to get to really sit down and understand the menu and settings. 
I know the manual is not heavy reading but I have found the RME YouTube channel ADI-2 menu walkthrough to be really helpful with understanding the basics. 
Just wanted to share with any new owners who might appreciate a video guide.


----------



## Slaphead

gimmeheadroom said:


> I know what a power amp is and yet the term is misused by people all the time. *There is no crime in clarifying it as part of the answer.*



Indeed you did. I'm afraid I responded to your post just very shortly before you edited it for clarification.


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

ADI-2 one of the   best  things i've ever bought.


----------



## betula

TANTALUMWATCHES said:


> ADI-2 one of the   best  things i've ever bought.


Enjoy. One of the very best DAC/amp you can buy under 2K. Being under 1K makes it a bargain.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TANTALUMWATCHES said:


> ADI-2 one of the   best  things i've ever bought.


We all say that


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

betula said:


> Enjoy. One of the very best DAC/amp you can buy under 2K. Being under 1K makes it a bargain.


It cost me 650 GBP 3m ago


----------



## betula

TANTALUMWATCHES said:


> It cost me 650 GBP 3m ago


That is an exceptional price. Did you buy it second hand? It cost me £820 new and I am still very happy with my purchase.


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

Yes, second hand 3m old from a London guy. New model plus 2.5y warranty. Lucky dog.


----------



## realmassy

Forsaked said:


> I freaking love it!


I have read a few reviews of the Focal Clear...very interesting. I’m quite tempted


----------



## NehPets

gimmeheadroom said:


> We all say that


I ordered mine a year ago, but UPS decided I couldn't have it. After a couple of months wrangling, they finally accepted responsibility and I was able to get my money back. As it turns out, it was quite fortunate because I wound up going in a different direction and the device I have now is a better fit for my musical sensibilities.


----------



## DomieMic65

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=164173#p164173

i think this thread I opened in RME forum has many useful info in general


----------



## uzi

I'm one of you now! My RME ADI-2 RME FS arrived a little while ago and it's replacing a pair of Drop/Grace SDACs ...

One went to a Bottlehead Crack and then an HD800S (and sometimes HD650)
The other to a Burson Soloist and then to a Focal Clear (and sometimes that HD800S or an HE-500)
Not to knock the SDACs because I think they're terrific for the money, but especially with the HD800S, I could hear where the limit was ... with classical music, things with horn sections, lots of distortion, etc... things were a bit hit or miss as to whether they were even enjoyable. The Focal Clears on the other hand were more forgiving with such things, but still not perfect.

Now with the ADI-2, I'm able to replace both SDAC units since there are the two line outs on the ADI-2 ... and more importantly, I have yet to throw something at the ADI-2 -> Bottlehead Crack -> HD800S where I'm unhappy with the sound. Is there room for improvement in some cases? Yeah ... but that's what this thing has a million features for me to play with for, right? I'm already pretty happy with this as it is straight out of the box... or in the very worst case I'm content, which is great.

I also gave a quick listen to my UERM plugged straight into the IEM port of the ADI-2 and things sounded great. Quick listens to the Focal Clear and HD800S plugged straight into the ADI-2 also sounded good ... I'm not sure I noticed any difference in the Focal Clear when going straight to the ADI-2 versus when going out of the Burson ... but with the HD800S, I definitely noted a little more roundness and heft on the sound coming out of the Bottlehead Crack, which I prefer. That said the HD800S still seemed enjoyable straight out of the ADI-2 on a quick (and I mean really quick) listen.

These are of course just quick initial impressions, but things are definitely off to a good and promising start.


----------



## captblaze

uzi said:


> I'm one of you now! My RME ADI-2 RME FS arrived a little while ago and it's replacing a pair of Drop/Grace SDACs ...
> 
> One went to a Bottlehead Crack and then an HD800S (and sometimes HD650)
> The other to a Burson Soloist and then to a Focal Clear (and sometimes that HD800S or an HE-500)
> ...



Enjoy discovering what this DAC is capable of. Mine has been in service 2 years now and I still have not thought about replacing it with something "better".


----------



## Moose246

Just ordered the ADI-2 and picked up a used Drop THX AAA 789 as well.  Haven't read too many bad reviews of either, curious to see how they sound.  Currently using a Mojo with Fostex TH900 mkii and HD650's.


----------



## G8torbyte (Jan 22, 2021)

Moose246 said:


> Just ordered the ADI-2 and picked up a used Drop THX AAA 789 as well.  Haven't read too many bad reviews of either, curious to see how they sound.  Currently using a Mojo with Fostex TH900 mkii and HD650's.


That is my primary setup, ADI-2 DAC feeding the THX amp to the balanced output jack.  For single-ended I will usually go straight from the RME DAC. 
The THX is transparent with near silent background and does not alter what feeds it.  I use it for some planars that may need more push for the magnets.
The ADI-2 DAC has many pro-level settings, adjustments and parametric properties to shape the sound how you like.  It takes some time to learn/navigate the menu functions but the manual it is written well to explain each capability.


----------



## Moose246

G8torbyte said:


> That is my primary setup, ADI-2 DAC feeding the THX amp to the balanced output jack.  For single-ended I will usually go straight from the RME DAC.
> The THX is transparent with near silent background and does not alter what feeds it.  I use it for some planars that may need more push for the magnets.
> The ADI-2 DAC has many pro-level settings, adjustments and parametric properties to shape the sound how you like.  It takes some time to learn/navigate the menu functions but the manual it is written well to explain each capability.




I picked up the amp more out of curiosity than thinking I'll really need it....it was used and a good deal.  

I anticipate spending a lot of time tweaking with the ADI.  Part of the fun though.


----------



## Moose246

G8torbyte said:


> That is my primary setup, ADI-2 DAC feeding the THX amp to the balanced output jack.  For single-ended I will usually go straight from the RME DAC.
> The THX is transparent with near silent background and does not alter what feeds it.  I use it for some planars that may need more push for the magnets.
> The ADI-2 DAC has many pro-level settings, adjustments and parametric properties to shape the sound how you like.  It takes some time to learn/navigate the menu functions but the manual it is written well to explain each capability.



@G8torbyte  Any recommendations for balanced interconnecting cables?


----------



## Slaphead

Moose246 said:


> @G8torbyte  Any recommendations for balanced interconnecting cables?



Yeah, just go to your local pro-audio shop and buy a pair of medium priced XLR interconnects, job done.


----------



## Matias

Moose246 said:


> @G8torbyte  Any recommendations for balanced interconnecting cables?


Gotham and Amphenol:
https://www.amazon.com/Units-Shielded-Balanced-Microphone-Connectors/dp/B01DITY88E/

Or

Mogami and Neutrik:
https://www.amazon.com/Foot-Balanced-Microphone-NC3MXX-B-NC3FXX-B/dp/B00WU1BP10/

Length as needed.


----------



## G8torbyte

Moose246 said:


> @G8torbyte  Any recommendations for balanced interconnecting cables?



Here is another source that someone mentioned on the Schiit Modius thread:


> https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/a07.html


These cables look very similar to the set (mass)Drop.com had for sale not long ago: https://drop.com/buy/fanmusic-c006-xlr-interconnect-cables
Better price too on the ghentaudio site.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Moose246 said:


> Just ordered the ADI-2 and picked up a used Drop THX AAA 789 as well.  Haven't read too many bad reviews of either, curious to see how they sound.  Currently using a Mojo with Fostex TH900 mkii and HD650's.



TH900s are killer right out of the RME. Plenty of headroom and of course fantastic sound.

HD 600/650/6XX will be happier with a tube OTL amp or a solid state amp with more grunt. Not sure if the THX amps are a good match for the Sennheisers but let us know what you think.


----------



## Chibs

Hey guys,
I have had this Dac for a while now and am trying to adjust EQ for my Sennheiser HD800s.
Would like to use EQ adjustments found at oratory1990, link below. But when I go to do this, end up not knowing what the crap I'm doing. Watched RME's quick video on EQing and it didn't help much. Can anyone refer me to a guide with step by step instructions?

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qhwoxvqpdml3rtm/Sennheiser HD800S (RME ADI-2).pdf?dl=0

Chibs


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Did you already try this? It's pretty clear.


----------



## Chibs

CaptainFantastic said:


> Did you already try this? It's pretty clear.



As stated, I watched the quick videos, yes.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Ah, the second one is 3m23s, but the first one is 5m35s, personally I found it very clear. Was thinking you had only seen the shorter one.


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

Chibs said:


> Hey guys,
> I have had this Dac for a while now and am trying to adjust EQ for my Sennheiser HD800s.
> Would like to use EQ adjustments found at oratory1990, link below. But when I go to do this, end up not knowing what the crap I'm doing. Watched RME's quick video on EQing and it didn't help much. Can anyone refer me to a guide with step by step instructions?
> 
> ...


Hi, my 800s  are  tuned  like my  photo.Maybe in my way its better than oratory1990


----------



## Chibs

TANTALUMWATCHES said:


> Hi, my 800s  are  tuned  like my  photo.Maybe in my way its better than oratory1990



Thank you!
Will try your settings as well.
I'm able to change Bands, Frequency and Q-Factor but I'm still confused with this.
I can't find Band 7 and 8 (Low shelf / high shelf)  I also can't find where you input "BW"

Chibs


----------



## Hinomotocho

Chibs said:


> Hey guys,
> I have had this Dac for a while now and am trying to adjust EQ for my Sennheiser HD800s.
> Would like to use EQ adjustments found at oratory1990, link below. But when I go to do this, end up not knowing what the crap I'm doing. Watched RME's quick video on EQing and it didn't help much. Can anyone refer me to a guide with step by step instructions?
> 
> ...


I'm a recent owner and still haven't quite got my head around it.


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

Chibs said:


> Thank you!
> Will try your settings as well.
> I'm able to change Bands, Frequency and Q-Factor but I'm still confused with this.
> I can't find Band 7 and 8 (Low shelf / high shelf)  I also can't find where you input "BW"
> ...


Your welcome.Take your time and u will find the G spot for your 800.


----------



## Chibs

To be more clear the areas circled are where I’m totally scratching my head. How do I find these parameters in my RME dac?


----------



## linearly

I feel the need to clarify some things about the ADI-2. Ever since I had it something was off about the sound, and by upgrading the audio chain I finally discovered where the problem was. It was NOT the DAC, but my headphone amplifier.

I fell into the measurments trap hype about the Topping A90 bought it right away and forgot about it. Never thought it could make my HD820's sound bad. As it measures so good and its transparent etc. Thought it was anything else in my chain and not the amp. I have a Lake People Phono-Amp G103 laying around and gave it a test. All the things that annoyed me about the sound are gone now. With the A90 fed by the ADI-2 the HD820's sound thin, harsh and cluttered with some songs, the voices are cold and not engaging. With the G103 everything changes, the sound has body to it, voices are incredible and the most obvious change is the grip that it has on the drivers. Everything sounds efortless with the G103.

I've had the G103 for years now, found it a bid dark sounding with the HD650's and my dac at that time, but with the RME and the HD820's, comparing it with the A90, there is no contest. I like it so much that now I'm interested in buying a new headphone amp. 

I would appreciate some opinions about a good amp with 300 Ohm Sennheiser's. As I understand the Lake People is the same company as Violectric, and since I love what I'm hearing now with the G103 would like to know what I will be getting sound wise by going up the chain. The G103 sounds a bit muffled, but tonality wise is what I'm after. 

I'm leaning towards the Violectric HPA V280 right now, and if its a bit cleaner sounding then the g103 with the same sound signature I'd be happy. Thank you for the input.


----------



## gugges

@Chibs BW (Bandwidth) is just another way of expressing Q factor, you can ignore it. As for the 5 peaks + 2 shelfs you can accomplish that on the RME ADI by setting the 5 peaks in the EQ. Then set the two shelfs via the Bass / Treble knobs. If you dig into the settings you will find where you can actually adjust the Q and Frequency for those bass/treble shelves - I think it is one of the sub settings menus from I/O. This combines for the 7 steps that oratory uses to create the EQ.


----------



## Cevisi

Chibs said:


> Thank you!
> Will try your settings as well.
> I'm able to change Bands, Frequency and Q-Factor but I'm still confused with this.
> I can't find Band 7 and 8 (Low shelf / high shelf)  I also can't find where you input "BW"
> ...


7 and 8 are your bass and treble knobs


----------



## TheRH (Jan 25, 2021)

Hello all, I am thinking of buying a Mac, but wanted to know, is there something special I needed to do to run the RME Qobuz or Roon on a Mac? I am a Windows user and have had no problems setting it up on that side.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

linearly said:


> I feel the need to clarify some things about the ADI-2. Ever since I had it something was off about the sound, and by upgrading the audio chain I finally discovered where the problem was. It was NOT the DAC, but my headphone amplifier.
> 
> I fell into the measurments trap hype about the Topping A90 bought it right away and forgot about it. Never thought it could make my HD820's sound bad. As it measures so good and its transparent etc. Thought it was anything else in my chain and not the amp. I have a Lake People Phono-Amp G103 laying around and gave it a test. All the things that annoyed me about the sound are gone now. With the A90 fed by the ADI-2 the HD820's sound thin, harsh and cluttered with some songs, the voices are cold and not engaging. With the G103 everything changes, the sound has body to it, voices are incredible and the most obvious change is the grip that it has on the drivers. Everything sounds efortless with the G103.
> 
> ...



Another wooden stake in the heart of audio scientology 

I have not heard the G103 but the V280 should be much better in every way. It is my Sennheiser amp, and it's pure killer.



TheRH said:


> Hello all, I am thinking of buying a Mac, but wanted to know, is there something special I needed to do to run the RME Qobuz or Roon on a Mac? I am a Windows user and have had no problems setting it up on that side.


No, you don't need Roon. Not sure why you asked about Qobuz. Roon is a GUI to your local music collection. They do not host any content, you do. Qobuz is a streaming service that hosts content.


----------



## Chibs

gugges said:


> @Chibs BW (Bandwidth) is just another way of expressing Q factor, you can ignore it. As for the 5 peaks + 2 shelfs you can accomplish that on the RME ADI by setting the 5 peaks in the EQ. Then set the two shelfs via the Bass / Treble knobs. If you dig into the settings you will find where you can actually adjust the Q and Frequency for those bass/treble shelves - I think it is one of the sub settings menus from I/O. This combines for the 7 steps that oratory uses to create the EQ.



Thanks for your reply. It's probably straight forward and right under my nose but I'm so confused!!
Can't seem to figure this part out.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Chibs said:


> Thanks for your reply. It's probably straight forward and right under my nose but I'm so confused!!
> Can't seem to figure this part out.



Which part exactly? I usually dumb it down from 7 to 5 bands since I use a lot of headphones


----------



## Chibs

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Which part exactly? I usually dumb it down from 7 to 5 bands since I use a lot of headphones


Cant find where you adjust the 5 peeks or where it lets you adjust two shelfs via the Bass / Treble knobs.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

5 peaks are in EQ menu. For shelfs just turn the knobs. Works in every non-settings menu.


----------



## technobear

Chibs said:


> Cant find where you adjust the 5 peeks or where it lets you adjust two shelfs via the Bass / Treble knobs.


http://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2dacr_e.pdf


----------



## BlairW

I am having difficulty outputting a digital signal through SPDIF or AES from my Apollo 8 to my RME ADI-2 Pro through either a digital optical cable or an coaxial cable. I've read the manual but I still cannot figure it out. Can anybody help with this?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

BlairW said:


> I am having difficulty outputting a digital signal through SPDIF or AES from my Apollo 8 to my RME ADI-2 Pro through either a digital optical cable or an coaxial cable. I've read the manual but I still cannot figure it out. Can anybody help with this?


No idea what an Appollo 8 is.

The RME might not be set to autodetect input. In that case you have to go to the I/O menu and select what input you want.


----------



## Moose246 (Jan 25, 2021)

Unit arrived today....sounded incredible right of the box.  Really like the "loudness" function - it makes the whole sound ridiculously clear to me.  I run EQ out of Jriver but it's nice to have the simple bass and treble options on the remote.  Haven't even tackled using the RME EQ yet...I imagine that will lead to endless tweaking. 

I don't know if burn-in is real or not, but either way I'll leave it on overnight for a few nights....if it's real and gets better along with the new Audioquest Cinnamon USB, excelsior.  I think it sounds amazing already.

Still waiting on the THX AAA 789.  Once it arrives will see how it complements, if it does...using balanced output.


----------



## ThEvil0nE

Moose246 said:


> Unit arrived today....sounded incredible right of the box.  Really like the "loudness" function - it makes the whole sound ridiculously clear to me.  I run EQ out of Jriver but it's nice to have the simple bass and treble options on the remote.  Haven't even tackled using the RME EQ yet...I imagine that will lead to endless tweaking.
> 
> I don't know if burn-in is real or not, but either way I'll leave it on overnight for a few nights....if it's real and gets better along with the new Audioquest Cinnamon USB, excelsior.  I think it sounds amazing already.
> 
> Still waiting on the THX AAA 789.  Once it arrives will see how it complements, if it does...using balanced output.


Don't even worry about burn-in, no such thing on the RME. I would also let the RME do most and all of the heavy lifting (EQ and tone control) and do away with EQs outside of the RME, just feed it a good clean source. I say this about the source as using my  Surface Book 2 laptop's USB/s are horrible. My Samsung Note is a way better source 10x over, night and day.


----------



## ThEvil0nE

gimmeheadroom said:


> No idea what an Appollo 8 is.


It's an audio interface


----------



## Slaphead

Moose246 said:


> Unit arrived today....*sounded incredible right of the box.*  Really like the "loudness" function - it makes the whole sound ridiculously clear to me.  I run EQ out of Jriver but it's nice to have the simple bass and treble options on the remote.  Haven't even tackled using the RME EQ yet...I imagine that will lead to endless tweaking.



That's how it will stay. It won't get better than incredible, neither will it get worse than incredible



Moose246 said:


> *I don't know if burn-in is real or not*, but either way I'll leave it on overnight for a few nights....if it's real and gets better along with the new Audioquest Cinnamon USB, excelsior.  I think it sounds amazing already.
> 
> Still waiting on the THX AAA 789.  Once it arrives will see how it complements, if it does...using balanced output.



It's not, at least not for DACs - you're wasting electricity leaving it on. However this is a fire-point of a discussion which I will no longer engage in, other than to voice my opinion just once.


----------



## Wladimir

I can't really tell, if I perceived any burn-in period with my beloved RME, but from several mid-fi DACs I owned along the way, one of them definitely needed 50+ hours of burn-in, otherwise it sounded awful. I was doing A/B testing and it started to sound good on third day. And I was non-believer before, but after this experience, I really have to consider burn-in even for DACs, as strange as it sounds..


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

Wladimir said:


> I can't really tell, if I perceived any burn-in period with my beloved RME, but from several mid-fi DACs I owned along the way, one of them definitely needed 50+ hours of burn-in, otherwise it sounded awful. I was doing A/B testing and it started to sound good on third day. And I was non-believer before, but after this experience, I really have to consider burn-in even for DACs, as strange as it sounds..


drop some snake oil    lol


----------



## ThEvil0nE

Wladimir said:


> I can't really tell, if I perceived any burn-in period with my beloved RME, but from several mid-fi DACs I owned along the way, one of them definitely needed 50+ hours of burn-in, otherwise it sounded awful. I was doing A/B testing and it started to sound good on third day. And I was non-believer before, but after this experience, I really have to consider burn-in even for DACs, as strange as it sounds..


Just stop it. There is no mechanical and or moving part that needs to loosen up inside your dac. Only moving part in this situation is your ear drum which got used to the sound.


----------



## YegDude (Jan 26, 2021)

I’ve read through over 100 pages of this thread and have found a tonne of great information but I still have a particular question.

I don’t like the look of cables coming out of the front of a unit and was originally looking at a Phonitor XE as it has a rear headphone out. The Phonitor 2 has a rear XLR outs that can double as a balanced headphone out, all be it witha custom cable. Could the ADI 2 rear XLR outs work as a headphone out by changing some setting with all the capability of the front 1/4” (DSP) or at all, with a custom cable? I'm not looking for a balanced headphone out; just rear a connection.


----------



## Cevisi

There is no burn in effect on electronic circuits.


----------



## technobear

YegDude said:


> I’ve read through over 100 pages of this thread and have found a tonne of great information but I still have a particular question.
> 
> I don’t like the look of cables coming out of the front of a unit and was originally looking at a Phonitor XE as it has a rear headphone out. The Phonitor 2 has a rear XLR outs that can double as a balanced headphone out, all be it witha custom cable. Could the ADI 2 rear XLR outs work as a headphone out by changing some setting with all the capability of the front 1/4” (DSP) or at all, with a custom cable? I'm not looking for a balanced headphone out; just rear a connection.


Note that the output impedance of the XLRs is 200 ohms. Only 600 ohm Beyerdynamics are likely to sound any good driven from this and even then it's not what is normally recognised as an ideal impedance ratio.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

technobear said:


> Note that the output impedance of the XLRs is 200 ohms. Only 600 ohm Beyerdynamics are likely to sound any good driven from this and even then it's not what is normally recognised as an ideal impedance ratio.


Agreed, I think Mattias has said the XLR outs should not be used as headphone jacks.


----------



## YegDude

technobear said:


> Note that the output impedance of the XLRs is 200 ohms. Only 600 ohm Beyerdynamics are likely to sound any good driven from this and even then it's not what is normally recognised as an ideal impedance ratio.



That is what I thought, I was just hoping there was an internal setting that could make the correct voltage be applied to the XLR like the Phonitor 2 has. With all my reading it seems the ADI can do just about everything else.


----------



## Slaphead

Wladimir said:


> I can't really tell, if I perceived any burn-in period with my beloved RME, but from several mid-fi DACs I owned along the way, *one of them definitely needed 50+ hours of burn-in,* otherwise it sounded awful. I was doing A/B testing and it started to sound good on third day. And I was non-believer before, but after this experience, I really have to consider burn-in even for DACs, as strange as it sounds..



If a DAC needs 50+ hours of burn in to sound good then you can speed up the process by placing the DAC in the middle of a raging bonfire, and then dispose of it in accordance with local electronic device recycling laws.


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

lol


----------



## Cevisi

Slaphead said:


> If a DAC needs 50+ hours of burn in to sound good then you can speed up the process by placing the DAC in the middle of a raging bonfire, and then dispose of it in accordance with local electronic device recycling laws.


Don't forget the crystals


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 27, 2021)

Cevisi said:


> Don't forget the crystals


Crystals alone do nothing. It's the one angstrom thick layer of snake oil that makes it happen.

In all seriousness, I believe the brain is what burns in, not the gear. Just like when you read a book the first time, you get the big stuff. When you read it again and again, you pick up details and things come together.

It just takes a while to get used to what new gear is telling you. The gear is not changing, you're just starting to get it.


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

gimmeheadroom said:


> Crystals alone do nothing. It's the one angstrom thick layer of snake oil that makes it happen.
> 
> In all seriousness, I believe the brain is what burns in, not the gear. Just like when you read a book the first time, you get the big stuff. When you read it again and again, you pick up details and things come together.
> 
> It just takes a while to get used to what new gear is telling you. The gear is not changing, you're just starting to get it.


100 %


----------



## musicman1000

The same with my iPhone. After 10 days of using, all Apps are working more fluently and rhythmic. Calls getting a bigger stage....


----------



## gimmeheadroom

musicman1000 said:


> The same with my iPhone. After 10 days of using, all Apps are working more fluently and rhythmic. Calls getting a bigger stage....


Awesome first post!


----------



## George Hincapie

Do RME have any plans to use the top tier AK chip in this DAC?


----------



## frogmeat69

George Hincapie said:


> Do RME have any plans to use the top tier AK chip in this DAC?


No need to, would just raise the price with little in return.


----------



## ThEvil0nE

George Hincapie said:


> Do RME have any plans to use the top tier AK chip in this DAC?


Everything is about implementation regardless of which chip used and RME has implemented the AK4493 very well on a pro sound production level. As @frogmeat69 stated, not needed.


----------



## linearly

Regarding burn in I strongly believe in it after my last experience, with the ADI-2 the sound at first was a bit narrow and the frequencies mixed up, it was like the treble and lows were forced into the mids. After 100 hours of listening to it everything sounded as it was supposed to. I'm not saying burn it in and not listen to it, just reserve judgement after at least 24 hours.

I recently got a Farad Super3 5v for my network card, and at first it sounded worse then a switching psu, so much high frequency noise. Farad recommends in their manual between 200 and 500 hours of usage. If I didn't believe in burn in I would've returned it immediately since it sounded so bad. I'm glad I do since after about 100 hours it sounds absolutely incredible. I'm so impressed that I will be getting a 12v version for the ADI-2 and compare it with my Pro-Ject sources linear psu. And I know I will get a bit of hate for this, but tonight I decided to plug in the stock RME psu for a few tests and its bad, there is so much harshness added to the music. If you find the sound to be harsh and not musical try a linear psu see if that changes anything in your system.


----------



## Wladimir

It's a shame that such a tiny community, which should be bound together by love to the art of music, can't keep a discussion in a respectful manner. So I'll respond to you all likewise. 

Now let me tell you one thing - we as a humanity are still FAR away from understanding physics of everything, but we know this - all "solid" matter is made of 99.999x% free space and the rest is ---- moving particles. And electrons themselves, powering up our electrical equipment, are what - static? particles? 
I doubt that anybody of you EXACTLY  know what's happening inside every single electrical component on subatomic level when it's interacting with electrons, yet here common "I can't understand it so it's not possible" attitude is giving your ego a permission to mock anybody, who is sharing his EXPERIENCE, which is opposite of your limited knowledge, essentially just a belief.

I can imagine that people like some of you here were back in the days round-earth deniers, earth-centric universe believers and every other idea was just ridiculous, deserving a proper mocking, right?

If you didn't have that experience yourself and can't comprehend, HOW could some phenomena exist, it's doesn't necessarily mean it can't be real, because guess what - physics doesn't revolve around our still LIMITED personal understanding. The limited is important, since if you'd go back in time, no matter how much, and ask people or even scientist that if we know everything by now, many of them will tell you that yes - there's nothing more to discover. And as we now know, what a narrow-minded, even arrogant these opinions were. 

And don't start with that brain burn-in again (which very well might often be the case, but not this time), since I got several DACs on my desk at once, switching back and forth for a week, otherwise if I didn't have direct comparison, I wouldn't be stating this.


----------



## DomieMic65

Does anyone know any set of tested eq settings for HD25Alum/ADI-2? Or just 25.
I recently discovered the Oratory1990 page of eq settings on reddit where there are, among others, eq settings specially for the adi-2 and a number of cans. Including the hd600.
Unfortunately not for the 25Alum.
(The same goes for Audeze Sine if there is something out there)
Thanks

*Yes the 25 with adi-2 sound great!!!


----------



## gikigill

Wladimir said:


> It's a shame that such a tiny community, which should be bound together by love to the art of music, can't keep a discussion in a respectful manner. So I'll respond to you all likewise.
> 
> Now let me tell you one thing - we as a humanity are still FAR away from understanding physics of everything, but we know this - all "solid" matter is made of 99.999x% free space and the rest is ---- moving particles. And electrons themselves, powering up our electrical equipment, are what - static? particles?
> I doubt that anybody of you EXACTLY  know what's happening inside every single electrical component on subatomic level when it's interacting with electrons, yet here common "I can't understand it so it's not possible" attitude is giving your ego a permission to mock anybody, who is sharing his EXPERIENCE, which is opposite of your limited knowledge, essentially just a belief.
> ...



I am sitting here with 15+ DACs and Amps and in my EXPERIENCE there is no burn in in electronics considering they are solid state and have very specific voltages especially in something as precise as the RME.

 If caps and resistors have certain values, deviations usually result in a negative impact on them. ECC memory is a great example of how an electronic signal is verified to insure integrity and any deviation is considered undesirable. 

If ECC RAM started having burn-in and deviations.it will collapse mainframes and servers at a moments notice.

Please don't even go into that electron debate as solid matter is not 99.99 free space but the atoms that compose that matter are 99.99% free space. That sentence alone tells me that you are not aware of what you are talking about but trying to paint the rest of us as flat earthers.

If you want to sell woo, atleast dress sharp and present a semi correct argument with built in plausible deniability as any proper woo seller would do.


----------



## gikigill

DomieMic65 said:


> Does anyone know any set of tested eq settings for HD25Alum/ADI-2? Or just 25.
> I recently discovered the Oratory1990 page of eq settings on reddit where there are, among others, eq settings specially for the adi-2 and a number of cans. Including the hd600.
> Unfortunately not for the 25Alum.
> (The same goes for Audeze Sine if there is something out there)
> ...



Have tried both HD25 and the Aluminium and just used the built in EQ. Works a treat with both.


----------



## DomieMic65

gikigill said:


> Have tried both HD25 and the Aluminium and just used the built in EQ. Works a treat with both.


I think you didn't understand my question.
I ask about the settings of the adi-2 eq for the 25Al. 
Thnx


----------



## gikigill

DomieMic65 said:


> I think you didn't understand my question.
> I ask about the settings of the adi-2 eq for the 25Al.
> Thnx



I use Sonarworks if that helps but there is no oratory preset for the HD25 Alu. You could try Amperior as they are similar.


----------



## Wladimir

gikigill said:


> I am sitting here with 15+ DACs and Amps and in my EXPERIENCE there is no burn in in electronics considering they are solid state and have very specific voltages especially in something as precise as the RME.



And yet I'm not doubting YOUR experience, I don't know why you simply must doubt mine. Did I ever state that every dac or amp MUST have a burn-in period to sound the best? In my experience, I didn't notice any of it (or at least clearly audible) with 5 other DACs at my disposal.



gikigill said:


> If caps and resistors have certain values, deviations usually result in a negative impact on them. ECC memory is a great example of how an electronic signal is verified to insure integrity and any deviation is considered undesirable.
> 
> If ECC RAM started having burn-in and deviations.it will collapse mainframes and servers at a moments notice.
> 
> Please don't even go into that electron debate as solid matter is not 99.99 free space but the atoms that compose that matter are 99.99% free space. That sentence alone tells me that you are not aware of what you are talking about but trying to paint the rest of us as flat earthers.



Well done comparing RAM chips to all the rest of electronics inside audio hardware. Why don't you mention processors or harddisk drives next time, that's almost the same as well. Congrats to completely destroying my point. 
Now seriously - if I don't know what I'm talking about, then there are at least both of us 



gikigill said:


> If you want to sell woo, atleast dress sharp and present a semi correct argument with built in plausible deniability as any proper woo seller would do.


Where did you get an impression I'm trying to sell something to you?


----------



## George Hincapie

frogmeat69 said:


> No need to, would just raise the price with little in return.



That's for the consumer to decide surely? What's the difference in cost of the chips? I doubt it's much.


----------



## JCANs

Hello everyone,

So the ADI-2 gossip has found my ear and I am seriously looking at it as my next upgrade.
I currently have the Ifi Zen stack (DAC, CAN over 4.4mm bal -> using ZMF Aeolus / HD700 /JH Roxanne), anyone here that has both and can make me more excited ?

Thanks!


----------



## mav52

ThEvil0nE said:


> Everything is about implementation regardless of which chip used and RME has implemented the AK4493 very well on a pro sound production level. As @frogmeat69 stated, not needed.



Not to menmtion the AKM fire at the factory, who knows when any new chips will be released.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

mav52 said:


> Not to menmtion the AKM fire at the factory, who knows when any new chips will be released.



I was going to say... it will be a long time before AKM gets back to manufacturing these chips, if at all. At this point companies like RME, Schiit, etc. will just go through their stock (I am sure most have a healthy supply) and then switch to Sabre or other chips most likely. So if anything, anyone sitting on the fence about get the ADI-2, should do so before stock runs out.


----------



## mav52

CaptainFantastic said:


> I was going to say... it will be a long time before AKM gets back to manufacturing these chips, if at all. At this point companies like RME, Schiit, etc. will just go through their stock (I am sure most have a healthy supply) and then switch to Sabre or other chips most likely. So if anything, anyone sitting on the fence about get the ADI-2, should do so before stock runs out.



AKM did mention they were looking at outsourcing manufacturing to other sources.


----------



## robm321

JCANs said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> So the ADI-2 gossip has found my ear and I am seriously looking at it as my next upgrade.
> I currently have the Ifi Zen stack (DAC, CAN over 4.4mm bal -> using ZMF Aeolus / HD700 /JH Roxanne), anyone here that has both and can make me more excited ?
> ...



I have the Roxanne and it sounds great with the RME. Everything else does too.


----------



## gikigill

Wladimir said:


> And yet I'm not doubting YOUR experience, I don't know why you simply must doubt mine. Did I ever state that every dac or amp MUST have a burn-in period to sound the best? In my experience, I didn't notice any of it (or at least clearly audible) with 5 other DACs at my disposal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You do realise every solid state DAC has caps and resistors which are supposed to burn in so burn in should apply to every DAC in your hypothetical scenario.

RAM is made up of Transistors and Capacitors with the data bits being stored on the capacitor, similar to a DACs capacitor and any change in the capacitors tolerance will lead to memory errors and a system crash in the case of RAM. 

Your SSD doesn't work any better after you "burn in" for a week since it's already built to certain specifications and will not work any faster or better. It's in the name "SOLID STATE"

A processor is made up of billions of transistors and any change in their tolerance will lead to errors and is one of the reasons why they are so difficult to fabricate with low error rates. Only 2-3 firms in the world have the capacity to build their own chips.

R2R DACs have very high tolerances and one of the common reasons for ladder based DACs failure is a resistor going out of tolerance due to incorrect voltage. The resistors are already performing at their peak specs and there is only one way to go for them and that's down.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

George Hincapie said:


> That's for the consumer to decide surely? What's the difference in cost of the chips? I doubt it's much.


There was an interesting article by one of the amp manufacturers that discussed the relationship between component parts and retail price. I think it was in relationship to bypassing the outputs to prevent DC but the key point was that there is a multiplier based on parts costs and that often something that seems to the customer like a minor incremental cost in this or that translates into a bigger difference out the door than would be tolerable.

Thankfully, RME is a pro audio company. They have enough of a reputation in their market not to have to chase Chifi chip-du-jour products. The reason all the low-end manufacturers tout their late model dual DAC stuff is because it isn't any good. It's just marketing.

Some of the top players in mid-fi (meaning not high end cost is no object) are using non-top of the line chipdac SOCs. Their stuff (RME for example) is still better than the loss-leader stuff being dumped on the market.


----------



## MetalVGAnime

Sorry if this might have already been asked and answered before at some point but has anyone here compared the RME ADI-2 just as a DAC to the Schitt Gungnir DS? I am aware that most people who purchase a Gungnir DS eventually upgrade it to the Mulitbit architecture rather than keeping it as a DS and the RME is most likely the better of the two but I'm quite curious all the same. Most comparisons of the RME that I could find thus far have been done with respect to either the Gungnir Mulitbit or the Yggdrasil.


----------



## acguitar84

My v2 of the RME Adi-2 DAC fs came in today, can't wait to get it home tonight and plug it into the system!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

MetalVGAnime said:


> Sorry if this might have already been asked and answered before at some point but has anyone here compared the RME ADI-2 just as a DAC to the Schitt Gungnir DS? I am aware that most people who purchase a Gungnir DS eventually upgrade it to the Mulitbit architecture rather than keeping it as a DS and the RME is most likely the better of the two but I'm quite curious all the same. Most comparisons of the RME that I could find thus far have been done with respect to either the Gungnir Mulitbit or the Yggdrasil.


The Yggdrasil is R2R so it will sound different. Which one you prefer is personal matter of taste. As far as chipdacs go, the RME is extremely musical. RME does DSD and Schiit doesn't. RME has parametric EQ and Schiit doesn't. At the price the RME is a no-brainer.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

mav52 said:


> AKM did mention they were looking at outsourcing manufacturing to other sources.



Ah, good to hear. I had heard earlier that some of their intellectual property was lost in the fire so they might not be able to just start manufacturing elsewhere easily.

Here is Schiit talking about switching to Sabre possibly. But it's a bit older of a video. See from 12:05.


----------



## ThEvil0nE

acguitar84 said:


> My v2 of the RME Adi-2 DAC fs came in today, can't wait to get it home tonight and plug it into the system!


A powerful piece of hardware that does not handcuff you to a certain sound signature. As is you will be greatly  satisfied. Dive into the option of modelling your sound to your own preference and you'll realize it's what you need. You can integrate all your headphones perfectly using the DSP/eq and save your setting for each specific headphone. Congrats!


----------



## George Hincapie

gimmeheadroom said:


> There was an interesting article by one of the amp manufacturers that discussed the relationship between component parts and retail price. I think it was in relationship to bypassing the outputs to prevent DC but the key point was that there is a multiplier based on parts costs and that often something that seems to the customer like a minor incremental cost in this or that translates into a bigger difference out the door than would be tolerable.
> 
> Thankfully, RME is a pro audio company. They have enough of a reputation in their market not to have to chase Chifi chip-du-jour products. The reason all the low-end manufacturers tout their late model dual DAC stuff is because it isn't any good. It's just marketing.
> 
> Some of the top players in mid-fi (meaning not high end cost is no object) are using non-top of the line chipdac SOCs. Their stuff (RME for example) is still better than the loss-leader stuff being dumped on the market.



Just curious that's all.

I've been listening to NOS DACs for years and am researching for a new DAC for my headphone system. It looks pretty nice; lacking AES input but I could slum it with SPDIF Digital I suppose.

It's cheaper than other solutions on my shortlist (Metrum Acoustics Onyx/Pavane, Sonnet Audio Morpheus, Schiit Yggdrasil, Chord Qutest/HugoTT2). I'll have a little think to myself.


----------



## gikigill

I personally prefer the RME over a Bifrost Multibit. The RME just sounds crisper and cleaner, similar to how some wines are so crisp and fresh.

Chucking in the Valhalla 2 and Asgard 3 doesn't help either when used as combo with the Bimby although the Asgard 3 fed by the RME is a champ.


----------



## Light - Man

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thankfully, RME is a pro audio company. They have enough of a reputation in their market not to have to chase *Chifi chip-du-jour products.* *The reason all the low-end manufacturers tout their late model dual DAC stuff is because it isn't any good*. It's just marketing.
> 
> Some of the top players in mid-fi (meaning not high end cost is no object) are using non-top of the line chipdac SOCs. Their stuff (RME for example) *is still better than the loss-leader stuff being dumped on the market*.



What have you tried recently to make this grossly biased and unfounded statement?


----------



## realmassy

A few posts back I asked about a pair of headphones to add to my Hifiman Ananda, easy to drive straight out of the RME amp as I want to keep using a single box; I’ve read reviews about the Focal Clear and Fostex, wasn’t 100% convinced and in the end I went with something that is not supposed to be easy to drive, the HEDD Heddhone, I was intrigued by the technology used in the drivers, but obviously I was concerned about the RME ability to drive them.

I can happily report the Heddphone sounds just fine, no additional amp needed. Obviously I don’t know how they will scale with a ‘better’ amp, but in terms of volume it’s no problem...I didn’t even need to engage the high power mode to get to a comfortable listening level. 
I’m really wondering how loud people usually listen to headphones if they need ‘more power’.


----------



## George Hincapie (Jan 29, 2021)

How many DAC chips does this have? One? Or one per channel?

And can it be put into DAC only mode so I can connect it to a separate headphone amp with balanced connector?


----------



## frogmeat69

George Hincapie said:


> How many DAC chips does this have? One? Or one per channel?
> 
> And can it be put into DAC only mode so I can connect it to a separate headphone amp with balanced connector?


One chip, and yes, you can hook it to a separate amp, and set it as a DAC only with set levels on both RCA and XLR outs.


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

Anybody using the focal clear with the adi 2dac/pro which power mode sounds best? I have been using it on Hi mode and thought base sounded really amazing but i don't know if its wrong


----------



## gikigill

Emmanuel Palmer said:


> Anybody using the focal clear with the adi 2dac/pro which power mode sounds best? I have been using it on Hi mode and thought base sounded really amazing but i don't know if its wrong



Using the Elear, Clear and Elegia with the RME and powerful bass is a good indication its working well as a combo. Just don't overdrive a Focal as they are known to break easier than a Sennheiser or a Beyer.


----------



## gikigill

realmassy said:


> A few posts back I asked about a pair of headphones to add to my Hifiman Ananda, easy to drive straight out of the RME amp as I want to keep using a single box; I’ve read reviews about the Focal Clear and Fostex, wasn’t 100% convinced and in the end I went with something that is not supposed to be easy to drive, the HEDD Heddhone, I was intrigued by the technology used in the drivers, but obviously I was concerned about the RME ability to drive them.
> 
> I can happily report the Heddphone sounds just fine, no additional amp needed. Obviously I don’t know how they will scale with a ‘better’ amp, but in terms of volume it’s no problem...I didn’t even need to engage the high power mode to get to a comfortable listening level.
> I’m really wondering how loud people usually listen to headphones if they need ‘more power’.



If you EQ heavily, power requirements go out of the window. The LCD-2 running 6db of low frequency equalisation will need a lot more than power than standard or else it distorts. The RME barely runs out of steam with most of my cans except a couple of planars.


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

gikigill said:


> Using the Elear, Clear and Elegia with the RME and powerful bass is a good indication its working well as a combo. Just don't overdrive a Focal as they are known to break easier than a Sennheiser or a Beyer.


I actually like the sound just like that without eq, my question was referring to the high/low/auto power mode selection?


----------



## gikigill

I use Hi due to applying some EQ as the Focals can tend to sound a bit thin

Ill try on low and report back. Never used auto mode.


----------



## realmassy

gikigill said:


> If you EQ heavily, power requirements go out of the window. The LCD-2 running 6db of low frequency equalisation will need a lot more than power than standard or else it distorts. The RME barely runs out of steam with most of my cans except a couple of planars.


That’s right. I think the power output doubles each 3db increase, although I don’t know if that totally applies to EQ (it’s just a set of frequencies).
6db increase in the low end would translate to 4x the power requirement...you can easily clip the amp.


----------



## Moose246

I love the sound of the ADI-2....wondering if anyone has a recommendation for a comparable sounding portable DAP.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Emmanuel Palmer said:


> Anybody using the focal clear with the adi 2dac/pro which power mode sounds best? I have been using it on Hi mode and thought base sounded really amazing but i don't know if its wrong


I use low power with the Focal clears but I see no issue with using high power if it sounds better to you . Measurements show slightly different noise and distortion levels but all are well below audible range .


----------



## George Hincapie

Has anyone moved from a NOS DAC, particularly a Metrum Acoustics DAC, to the RME? I really have an urge to try one and see what the fuss is about, but equally worried I won't like it...


----------



## Moose246

Anyone use a SACD player with the RME?  I'm pretty clueless on whether it's possible or worth it.  But I have quite a few discs (all hybrids) that I'm curious about and currently don't own a player.


----------



## Matias

George Hincapie said:


> Has anyone moved from a NOS DAC, particularly a Metrum Acoustics DAC, to the RME? I really have an urge to try one and see what the fuss is about, but equally worried I won't like it...


Just buy from a store that allows you to trial and return if you wish so. Worst case you only lose return shipping.


----------



## Dogmatrix

George Hincapie said:


> Has anyone moved from a NOS DAC, particularly a Metrum Acoustics DAC, to the RME? I really have an urge to try one and see what the fuss is about, but equally worried I won't like it...


I have the Metrum octave mk2 and although the NOS filter on the RME is quite good I still prefer the Metrum with tube amps .
For SS amps the RME 
If you have to sell the Metrum maybe not but if you can keep both they do compliment each other


----------



## George Hincapie

Dogmatrix said:


> I have the Metrum octave mk2 and although the NOS filter on the RME is quite good I still prefer the Metrum with tube amps .
> For SS amps the RME
> If you have to sell the Metrum maybe not but if you can keep both they do compliment each other



Thanks for that. No, I don't have to sell anything. I was just looking to elevate the performance of my headphone system. Obviously a Metrum Onyx or Pavane is a possibility, but while I'm upgrading I wondered about other possibilities and a lot of people seem to like the RME.


----------



## DomieMic65 (Jan 31, 2021)

From my limited experience, since I own the unit for about 20 days, I think that you get the most out of it when you use it as stand alone device or as a digital preamplifier.
In this way you have, Eq, loudness (may be the best implemented loudness out there), and the Auto Reference mode with all it's benefits for S/N ratio and DR.
In my case I found out that the over all sound was better after removing my pre amp from my speaker setup (I never thought that this would be the case before trying) using attenuators for the best level matching as RME suggests (actually I'm waiting the attenuators to arrive and for now I use a potentiometer as attenuator).
Since there is not such thing like a headphone power amp (it would cool though heh) theoretically one "looses" some of the features that make this thing so special.
I'm not suggesting that using it in "fixed" mode is not good -far from it.. it's great- just saying that you get the most "ADI-2 dac fs" experience in stand alone mode...
My 2c as a mainly speaker user.


----------



## George Hincapie

DomieMic65 said:


> From my limited experience, since I own the unit for about 20 days, I think that you get the most out of it when you use it as stand alone device or as a digital preamplifier.
> In this way you have, Eq, loudness (may be the best implemented loudness out there), and the Auto Reference mode with all it's benefits for S/N ratio and DR.
> In my case I found out that the over all sound was better after removing my pre amp from my speaker setup (I never thought that this would be the case before trying) using attenuators for the best level matching as RME suggests (actually I'm waiting the attenuators to arrive and for now I use a potentiometer as attenuator).
> Since there is not such thing like a headphone power amp (it would cool though heh) theoretically one "looses" some of the features that make this thing so special.
> ...



I have the Metrum Acoustics Adagio on DAC/PreAmp duties in my main system; this would purely be for my headphone system. I have a couple of HPAs already, but have no issue with a combined device if the RME HPA section is as good as people suggest.


----------



## DomieMic65

George Hincapie said:


> I have the Metrum Acoustics Adagio on DAC/PreAmp duties in my main system; this would purely be for my headphone system. I have a couple of HPAs already, but have no issue with a combined device if the RME HPA section is as good as people suggest.


I'd suggest to give it a try if you can, but make sure that you give it also the time to appreciate it's features and potential through reading the manual and configuring it to your needs and setup (personally I found great help in RME forums).. I do not think that it's an impressive unit... it's just right... in everything I might say. The plan for me was to start from it's price point -I bought it on discounted price- and if I found it is not what I want I would go up to Qutest may be.. well i won't! I do not know how much better the Qutest is -if at all- but for sure I know that this thing will make me a better listener and will teach me things!


----------



## Moose246

THX AAA 789 amp arrived today...hooked it up and gave it a listen.  Running balanced cables from the RME with the volume level at -6.0 on the RME, low gain mode on the AAA.  When people say the background is dead silent on the AA they aren't kidding...wow.  I didn't change the EQ from the source (JRiver) but found I did have to bump it up on the RME when using the amp....had the B/T flat listening straight from the RME;  went to 3.0 bass and 5.0 treble using the AAA.  Haven't even started fiddling with the precise EQ on the RME yet.

Overall I love the combination....excellent sounding.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Moose246 said:


> THX AAA 789 amp arrived today...hooked it up and gave it a listen.  Running balanced cables from the RME with the volume level at -6.0 on the RME, low gain mode on the AAA.  When people say the background is dead silent on the AA they aren't kidding...wow.  I didn't change the EQ from the source (JRiver) but found I did have to bump it up on the RME when using the amp....had the B/T flat listening straight from the RME;  went to 3.0 bass and 5.0 treble using the AAA.  Haven't even started fiddling with the precise EQ on the RME yet.
> 
> Overall I love the combination....excellent sounding.


I don't have much experience with amps and to save myself money and the add-ons cables etc I am trying to keep it simple as an all in one device. Can you please describe the difference the between the headphone out of the ADI-2 and the THX?


----------



## Moose246 (Feb 1, 2021)

Hinomotocho said:


> I don't have much experience with amps and to save myself money and the add-ons cables etc I am trying to keep it simple as an all in one device. Can you please describe the difference the between the headphone out of the ADI-2 and the THX?



Similar to you I didn't really want to spend the same $$ for an amp as I did for the DAC.  I'm sure there are good reasons to do so, and it's not because I don't believe an amp with a high price isn't worth it....it was mainly because I wasn't sure that the amp would alter or change the sound enough to justify the expense.  Some may argue the amp is just as important, if not more, than the DAC, but if a DAC came with a reasonable amp I found it hard to justify (call it diminishing returns or my non-audiophile ear being unappreciative of the differences).  When researching the ADI-2 I kept coming across posts and reviews where it was stacked with the THX....so I figured I'd at least look into it and it piqued my interest.  Admittedly, part of the interest was the fact it was relatively cheap.  ~$400 new, if I recall correctly, but even buying new would have to be on the secondhand market since Drop isn't selling them at the moment.  I found a used one in like-new shape on eBay for $250 so figured what the heck, not much to lose if I wasn't a fan and wanted to unload it.  A recommended set of $30 balanced cables from this site and I'm all-in for under $300.

Regarding your question....I wouldn't say the sound comparison is overly dramatic by any means.  Admittedly, it's tough for me to truly A/B because I use EQ liberally and it's difficult to get them to be exactly the same to compare.  I did try each with no EQ and the RME settings the same....and actually like the RME better (but didn't particularly like the sound from either, really).  When I start tweaking the EQ I find I can hone it in better by using the THX.  Can't really explain succinctly why - just sounds cleaner (sharper) going back and forth between the two.  No idea why that is.  Likely my lack of equalizing skills - it's probably the case that I could tweak the RME to sound exactly like the stack....who knows.  I will say that the dead music spaces in the THX really are dead silent..the hiss and white noise is noticeably missing.

If I didn't have the THX I'd be perfectly fine with ADI alone, and will likely listen to it sans THX often just for something different.  And if the THX was even 2x the price I'd probably unload it...but for the minimal (relative) cost I'm happy to have in the collection and honestly won't go looking for another DAC or amp because I love the sound of these.  I do enjoy tweaking and thinking about the alternatives (DAC's, amps, headphones, etc) but at this point I think to make a real difference I'd either need to spend a lot more money and/or have someone who really knows how to set up EQ's and perfectly tweak the sound provide guidance.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Moose246 said:


> Similar to you I didn't really want to spend the same $$ for an amp as I did for the DAC.  I'm sure there are good reasons to do so, and it's not because I don't believe an amp with a high price isn't worth it....it was mainly because I wasn't sure that the amp would alter or change the sound enough to justify the expense.  Some may argue the amp is just as important, if not more, than the DAC, but if a DAC came with a reasonable amp I found it hard to justify (call it diminishing returns or my non-audiophile ear being unappreciative of the differences).  When researching the ADI-2 I kept coming across posts and reviews where it was stacked with the THX....so I figured I'd at least look into it and it piqued my interest.  Admittedly, part of the interest was the fact it was relatively cheap.  ~$400 new, if I recall correctly, but even buying new would have to be on the secondhand market since Drop isn't selling them at the moment.  I found a used one in like-new shape on eBay for $250 so figured what the heck, not much to lose if I wasn't a fan and wanted to unload it.  A recommended set of $30 balanced cables from this site and I'm all-in for under $300.
> 
> Regarding your question....I wouldn't say the sound comparison is overly dramatic by any means.  Admittedly, it's tough for me to truly A/B because I use EQ liberally and it's difficult to get them to be exactly the same to compare.  I did try each with no EQ and the RME settings the same....and actually like the RME better (but didn't particularly like the sound from either, really).  When I start tweaking the EQ I find I can hone it in better by using the THX.  Can't really explain succinctly why - just sounds cleaner (sharper) going back and forth between the two.  No idea why that is.  Likely my lack of equalizing skills - it's probably the case that I could tweak the RME to sound exactly like the stack....who knows.  I will say that the dead music spaces in the THX really are dead silent..the hiss and white noise is noticeably missing.
> 
> If I didn't have the THX I'd be perfectly fine with ADI alone, and will likely listen to it sans THX often just for something different.  And if the THX was even 2x the price I'd probably unload it...but for the minimal (relative) cost I'm happy to have in the collection and honestly won't go looking for another DAC or amp because I love the sound of these.  I do enjoy tweaking and thinking about the alternatives (DAC's, amps, headphones, etc) but at this point I think to make a real difference I'd either need to spend a lot more money and/or have someone who really knows how to set up EQ's and perfectly tweak the sound provide guidance.


Thanks for taking the time to reply. 
I also have seen the pairing mentioned and was just curious. I haven't really gotten to know mine yet so I'm currently satisfied with it as a complete package.
I have found big improvements with EQ settings and was wondering what the settings limitations are and what another amp may offer, unless it is for more power depending on requirements. For my finances and sanity the less components the less distractions and I can enjoy the music.


----------



## Nettlesomeness

I'm feeding the Woo WA-2 with either A&K SE100 or the RME, to compare them the SE100 is more musical/dynamic/bigger soundstage/articulate across bass-mid-vocals, it feels as if it draws a much nicer picture. 
Both without EQ, EQ'ing the RME for slightly more bass makes the ADX5000 slightly boomy.. While I had both a while now but never did A/B comparison until now, the hunt continues for a desktop DAC I guess.


----------



## captblaze

Nettlesomeness said:


> I'm feeding the Woo WA-2 with either A&K SE100 or the RME, to compare them the SE100 is more musical/dynamic/bigger soundstage/articulate across bass-mid-vocals, it feels as if it draws a much nicer picture.
> Both without EQ, EQ'ing the RME for slightly more bass makes the ADX5000 slightly boomy.. While I had both a while now but never did A/B comparison until now, the hunt continues for a desktop DAC I guess.


Sabre vs. AKM chipset. you prefer the sabre which can be brighter and more energetic compared to the AKM which can be darker and more laid back


----------



## Nettlesomeness

captblaze said:


> Sabre vs. AKM chipset. you prefer the sabre which can be brighter and more energetic compared to the AKM which can be darker and more laid back


Probably but I also thought it's all about implementation and didn't audition either since access to devices is very limited in my area. Any recommendations?


----------



## captblaze

Nettlesomeness said:


> Probably but I also thought it's all about implementation and didn't audition either since access to devices is very limited in my area. Any recommendations?



i moved from a Mytek Brooklyn II to the ADI2-DAC (first gen) and am happy with the change. had the unit for 2 years and for my use (and library) it is as good as my wallet allows. perhaps once I get all my kids through school I can move up the ladder.

don't know if you have heard any of Chords offerings, but the Chord Cutest is supposed to be a desktop version of Hugo II. and is more on the analytical side (from reading others opinion, no first hand experience with that model only Mojo). 

depending on your use case and library and a fat enough wallet, you should eventually figure out where your ears are the happiest


----------



## Nettlesomeness

captblaze said:


> i moved from a Mytek Brooklyn II to the ADI2-DAC (first gen) and am happy with the change. had the unit for 2 years and for my use (and library) it is as good as my wallet allows. perhaps once I get all my kids through school I can move up the ladder.
> 
> don't know if you have heard any of Chords offerings, but the Chord Cutest is supposed to be a desktop version of Hugo II. and is more on the analytical side (from reading others opinion, no first hand experience with that model only Mojo).
> 
> depending on your use case and library and a fat enough wallet, you should eventually figure out where your ears are the happiest



Appreciate the response, I'll hop on Mytek forum and see how people describe the sound. 

As far as Chord goes I've only listened to the Mojo and probably need a revisit as I completely dropped it after the A&K.


----------



## Moose246

Nettlesomeness said:


> I'm feeding the Woo WA-2 with either A&K SE100 or the RME, to compare them the SE100 is more musical/dynamic/bigger soundstage/articulate across bass-mid-vocals, it feels as if it draws a much nicer picture.
> Both without EQ, EQ'ing the RME for slightly more bass makes the ADX5000 slightly boomy.. While I had both a while now but never did A/B comparison until now, the hunt continues for a desktop DAC I guess.



So you like the A&K SE100 better than the RME...is that correct?


----------



## Moose246 (Feb 2, 2021)

Hinomotocho said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply.
> I also have seen the pairing mentioned and was just curious. I haven't really gotten to know mine yet so I'm currently satisfied with it as a complete package.
> I have found big improvements with EQ settings and was wondering what the settings limitations are and what another amp may offer, unless it is for more power depending on requirements. For my finances and sanity the less components the less distractions and I can enjoy the music.




Probably stating the obvious on a forum like this, but what I tell people who aren't yet indoctrinated in hifi......If you're on a tight budget or simply want to be frugal and looking to get the most bang for the buck I think upgrading headphones will be better in most instances....especially if you already have the RME.  Through my evolution I found that two things made a massive difference in listenability....better source files (going to lossless/hi-res from 128mp3) and better headphones.  Either one of those makes a big difference but both combined are game-changing.  Once I had both of those and added a decent DAC (started with the Mojo) the incremental differences I've found with various components is subtle and maybe even indiscernible if truly a/b'ing blind.  I think at that point it boils down to finding the product that suits your tastes and sound style vs actually making it sound _better (_detail, sonically, etc)_. _  Granted, I've never heard some really top of the line DAC's like a Chord DAVE, but for my (lack of) critical listening ability I find it really hard to believe that it's worth 11x the RME.  Certainly for my system, which is simply fed from my pc to the RME/THX and using a great but not insane set of headphones (Fostex TH900 mk2).  Given I buy used I'm all-in at less than $3k.  If someone has thousands, or even tens of thousands, worth of components and speakers, then maybe it's noticeable.  But they've also spent a college fund's worth of money on a system....it better be.


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

Moose246 said:


> Probably stating the obvious on a forum like this, but what I tell people who aren't yet indoctrinated in hifi......If you're on a tight budget or simply want to be frugal and looking to get the most bang for the buck I think upgrading headphones will be better in most instances....especially if you already have the RME.  Through my evolution I found that two things made a massive difference in listenability....better source files (going to lossless/hi-res from 128mp3) and better headphones.  Either one of those makes a big difference both both combined are game-changing.  Once I had both of those and added a decent DAC (started with the Mojo) the incremental differences I've found with various components is subtle and maybe even indiscernible if truly a/b'ing blind.  I think at that point it boils down to finding the product that suits your tastes and sound style vs actually making it sound _better (_detail, sonically, etc)_. _  Granted, I've never heard some really top of the line DAC's like a Chord DAVE, but for my (lack of) critical listening ability I find it really hard to believe that it's worth 11x the RME.  Certainly for my system, which is simply fed from my pc to the RME/THX and using a great but not insane set of headphones (Fostex TH900 mk2).  Given I buy used I'm all-in at less than $3k.  If someone has thousands, or even tens of thousands, worth of components and speakers, then maybe it's noticeable.  But they've also spend a college fund's worth of money on a system....it better be.


100 %  agree with you.


----------



## milkdudd (Feb 2, 2021)

Moose246 said:


> Anyone use a SACD player with the RME?  I'm pretty clueless on whether it's possible or worth it.  But I have quite a few discs (all hybrids) that I'm curious about and currently don't own a player.


Not possible unfortunately. I'm in exactly the same boat. SACD players can't output a digital signal. You need an amp that has analog inputs which this RME doesn't have. I'm planning to get the RME ADI-2 PRO FS. For $700 more you get analog inputs and a balanced headphone output. It's actually much more versatile if you can afford it. It's somewhat geared more for professional use so you will need interconnects with a quarter inch phono style connector or adapters like this to use regular RCA interconnects.


And to run balanced headphones you will need an adapter that also has quarter inch phono jacks. In my case an adapter like this which is a 4.4 balanced to quarter inch phono jack.

Extra expense and a bit of a hassle but I'm convinced it's worth it. The PRO also has analog out so I'm going to run that to my room stereo


----------



## Moose246

milkdudd said:


> Not possible unfortunately. I'm in exactly the same boat. SACD players can't output a digital signal. You need an amp that has analog inputs which this RME doesn't have. I'm planning to get the RME ADI-2 PRO FS. For $700 more you get analog inputs and a balanced headphone output. It's actually much more versatile if you can afford it. It's somewhat geared more for professional use so you will need interconnects with a quarter inch phono style connector or adapters like this to use regular RCA interconnects.
> 
> And to run balanced headphones you will need an adapter that also has quarter inch phono jacks. In my case an adapter like this which is a 4.4 balanced to quarter inch phono jack.
> 
> Extra expense and a bit of a hassle but I'm convinced it's worth it. The PRO also has analog out so I'm going to run that to my room stereo



Good to know, thanks for the response!  Being I already have the non-pro version I'd probably just go with the player and run it into an amp.  Honestly it was more out of curiosity than anything.


----------



## milkdudd

Moose246 said:


> Good to know, thanks for the response!  Being I already have the non-pro version I'd probably just go with the player and run it into an amp.  Honestly it was more out of curiosity than anything.


I understand. By coincidence I was on the phone with RME just today discussing this very subject so I thought I would pass it on. I realize most people wouldn't want to go to all the trouble and cost. Maybe at some point others will read through this and it could answer their questions


----------



## Nettlesomeness

Moose246 said:


> So you like the A&K SE100 better than the RME...is that correct?



 True, unfortunately🥵 hope I don’t get shamed for that😂


----------



## Forsaked

Nettlesomeness said:


> True, unfortunately🥵 hope I don’t get shamed for that😂


----------



## Nettlesomeness




----------



## milkdudd

Nettlesomeness said:


> True, unfortunately🥵 hope I don’t get shamed for that😂


I also know shame. Try asking for ketchup to put on your steak at an upscale restaurant


----------



## kion

Does anyone connect both IEM and headphone to the ADI-2 DAC FS at the same time? It seems that both the front outputs are active at the same time and there is no way to switch one off, maybe I am missing something? The manual doesn’t say anything about this.


----------



## betula (Feb 3, 2021)

kion said:


> Does anyone connect both IEM and headphone to the ADI-2 DAC FS at the same time? It seems that both the front outputs are active at the same time and there is no way to switch one off, maybe I am missing something? The manual doesn’t say anything about this.


Edit: ignore. Correct answer in next post.


----------



## kion

betula said:


> The headphone output has priority over the IEM output. As long as you have headphones plugged in the IEM output remains silent.


Interesting, maybe we have a different revisions of the hardware or firmware (V .34 for me), but for me they were definitely active at the same time, unplugging and replugging the 6.35mm jack doesn’t trigger any change.

You can see here I have both plugged in and it still shows IEM on the screen (and both were playing).


----------



## betula

kion said:


> Interesting, maybe we have a different revisions of the hardware or firmware (V .34 for me), but for me they were definitely active at the same time, unplugging and replugging the 6.35mm jack doesn’t trigger any change.
> 
> You can see here I have both plugged in and it still shows IEM on the screen (and both were playing).


My bad. I did not actually stick the IEM in my ears just held it close and I did not hear it is on as it was very silent. I do not normally use IEMs and I rushed with the answer. Kion is right. Both outputs work simultaneously.


----------



## kion (Feb 3, 2021)

betula said:


> My bad. I did not actually stick the IEM in my ears just held it close and I did not hear it is on as it was very silent. I do not normally use IEMs and I rushed with the answer. Kion is right. Both outputs work simultaneously.


Out of curiosity, does the screen show Phone or IEM as the “active output” for you when both are plugged in? I guess you see Phone which made you believe it took priority.

What I found interesting is that when you turn the volume knob, it changes the volume for both outputs, regardless of what the screen says is currently active.


----------



## betula

kion said:


> Out of curiosity, does the screen show Phone or IEM for you when both are plugged in? I guess you see Phone which made you believe it took priority.
> 
> What I found interesting is that when you turn the volume knob, it changes the volume for both outputs, regardless of what the screen says is currently active.


Yes, the screen was showing phones.


----------



## kion

Some wise guy at ASR helped me out - "In the 'Setup', under 'Phones/DSD', you can set 'Mute Line' to 'Toggle Plugged'. See page 27 of the manual."

So after setting it to 'Toggle Plugged', just press and hold the volume knob for half a second or longer to switch between IEM and Phones.


----------



## Cevisi

I ordered this headphone stand. The bottom fits perfect under the rme adi 2 and it looks like 1 unit . Very clean and space saving. It was a bit short i had to space it with some spacers at the back. I wanted to share this idea with you maybe some one like it and want to do the same




https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07KWV2GW2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_DZWVBHCGRFXWYKQHM573?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## realmassy

Ah, nice one! Pretty much the same as my RME on the base of my LG monitor, it fits just fine


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

Cevisi said:


> I ordered this headphone stand. The bottom fits perfect under the rme adi 2 and it looks like 1 unit . Very clean and space saving. It was a bit short i had to space it with some spacers at the back. I wanted to share this idea with you maybe some one like it and want to do the same
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07KWV2GW2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_DZWVBHCGRFXWYKQHM573?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Very  nice and good idea.  Top



realmassy said:


> Ah, nice one! Pretty much the same as my RME on the base of my LG monitor, it fits just fine


Good place and looks identical.


----------



## Nettlesomeness (Feb 6, 2021)

Anyone know if I can connect an A&K (se100) to the RME and how? 

edit: non usb, not sure of that works either but it’s occupied.


----------



## DomieMic65

Nettlesomeness said:


> Anyone know if I can connect an A&K (se100) to the RME and how?
> 
> edit: non usb, not sure of that works either but it’s occupied.


With Optical or coaxial SPDIF out if your device has any


----------



## beardyweirdy

Hi 
I have been looking at the Rme Dac or possibly the Qutest. I like to plug and play and a bit daunted about understanding the RMEs functions. 
is it easy enough to set up?
Also I have a Cayin tube amp could this be connected too?
Thanks


----------



## Chibs

beardyweirdy said:


> Hi
> I have been looking at the Rme Dac or possibly the Qutest. I like to plug and play and a bit daunted about understanding the RMEs functions.
> is it easy enough to set up?
> Also I have a Cayin tube amp could this be connected too?
> Thanks



Qutest is most definitely more plug & play. Rme is not that difficult to set up but If you want to use EQ it gets confusing IMO.

Chibs


----------



## milkdudd

beardyweirdy said:


> Hi
> I have been looking at the Rme Dac or possibly the Qutest. I like to plug and play and a bit daunted about understanding the RMEs functions.
> is it easy enough to set up?
> Also I have a Cayin tube amp could this be connected too?
> Thanks


I haven't purchased mine yet but I've done quite a bit of studying. I had the same concern that with all of the adjustments I might get so deep into all of that and make it worse than it was before I started. The RME website has a video that shows the features of the newest models. It shows a simple way to reset everything back to factory defaults. That's a great feature and would make me willing to try a lot more things. As far as hooking it up to your amp, I think you can hook up any amp that has RCA or balanced inputs. If the amp has a volume control, you should be able to set the outputs of the RME to fixed level. To be sure I would give them a call in Florida, they're great about explaining things


----------



## bcaulf17

It’s just such a sexy unit. How does the amp portion perform? More specifically, how does it sound compared to the THX 789? I read the 789 is better on paper and that’s the one I have (and love) but shelling out $1200 for just a DAC is a tough pill for me to swallow, even for a device as nice as this. So I would sell the 789 and just use the RME. If I pulled the trigger.


----------



## Moose246 (Feb 7, 2021)

I have the ADI-2 and the THX 789....it's a great combo.  But, I would be perfectly satisfied using the RME alone.  In my humble opinion, I'd say the 789 makes the background quieter and the sound warmer.  I'd describe it as the RME alone is for more critical listening, where every single noise is heard (sometimes that's good, sometimes bad), while going through the THX you can just sit back and enjoy the listen.  For example, listening to 'Jesus Doesn't Want Me For a Sunbeam' from Nirvana's Unplugged album, at the end of the song the crowd claps.  With the RME every single clap is super crisp and separated, but almost too much so that's it's a little abrasive to the ear.  With the THX the detail is still there but the abrasiveness is gone.  Maybe some of that could be EQ'd away when going back and forth, but that's simply unplugging from one and going straight into the other.  Weird for me to have that opinion since my quest was always for the most _detailed _sound, and to say that too much detail is detrimental to the sound is not something I expected. It's nice to have the option t listen either way, and maybe the effect is minimized using various headphones (I'm using Fostex TH900 mk2's).

I'd say the RME setup can be as exhausting as you make it.  I honestly haven't even tried any of the fine tuning EQ options....I EQ through the source (JRiver on a desktop PC).  Although I have played a bit with the bass and treble knob adj's and they work well.  The biggest thing I noticed as far as simple "on/off" impacts with the RME were items in the I/O menu, which aren't nearly as intimidating.  In fact, the biggest difference I found was the "Loudness" function, which is a button on the remote.  Turning it on _really _brought out the sound detail mentioned above....but again, almost too much at times.

My comparisons are very limited as I only have a Mojo.  But I like the capabilities and the sound options with the RME (for example the loudness mentioned above) that are absent in DAC's you simply plug into.  But I'll certainly admit that can be exhausting as well, as you're always wondering "will it sound better if I adjust this".  But I'd still rather have the option.


----------



## bcaulf17

Moose246 said:


> I have the ADI-2 and the THX 789....it's an great combo.  But, I would be perfectly satisfied using the RME alone.  In my humble opinion, I'd say the 789 makes the background quieter and the sound warmer.  I'd describe it as the RME alone is for more critical listening, where every single noise is heard (sometimes that's good, sometimes bad), while going through the THX you can just sit back and enjoy the listen.  For example, listening to 'Jesus Doesn't Want Me For a Sunbeam' from Nirvana's Unplugged album, at the end of the song the crowd claps.  With the RME every single clap is super crisp and separated, but almost too much so that's it's a little abrasive to the ear.  With the THX the detail is still there but the abrasiveness is gone.  Maybe some of that could be EQ'd away when going back and forth, but that's simply unplugging from one and going straight into the other.  Weird for me to have that opinion since my quest was always for the most _detailed _sound, and to say that too much detail is detrimental to the sound is not something I expected. It's nice to have the option t listen either way, and maybe the effect is minimized using various headphones (I'm using Fostex TH900 mk2's).
> 
> I'd say the RME setup can be as exhausting as you make it.  I honestly haven't even tried any of the fine tuning EQ options....I EQ through the source (JRiver on a desktop PC).  Although I have played a bit with the bass and treble knob adj's and they work well.  The biggest thing I noticed as far as simple "on/off" impacts with the RME were items in the I/O menu, which aren't nearly as intimidating.  In fact, the biggest difference I found was the "Loudness" function, which is a button on the remote.  Turning it on _really _brought out the sound detail mentioned above....but again, almost too much at times.
> 
> My comparisons are very limited as I only have a Mojo.  But I like the capabilities and the sound options with the RME (for example the loudness mentioned above) that are absent in DAC's you simply plug into.  But I'll certainly admit that can be exhausting as well, as you're always wondering "will it sound better if I adjust this".  But I'd still rather have the option.


This is very helpful, thanks!


----------



## Slaphead

beardyweirdy said:


> Hi
> I have been looking at the Rme Dac or possibly the Qutest. I like to plug and play and a bit daunted about understanding the RMEs functions.
> is it easy enough to set up?
> Also I have a Cayin tube amp could this be connected too?
> Thanks



Both are equally plug and play - you take them out of the box, plug them in and start playing music. The only difference is that the RME unit offers far more flexibility to tailor the sound to your own requirements, but only if you chose to take advantage of those functions. For me personally I find the RME to be absolutely wonderful in it's default configuration, so that's how I've left it. However, I'm happy knowing that should I need them, then the options are there for me to use.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Moose246 said:


> In my humble opinion, I'd say the 789 makes the background quieter and the sound warmer.



I have honestly never heard the 789 described as warm before. In fact, most descriptions of it say overly-analytical, cold, sterile. I heard it, but never owned it.


----------



## Hinomotocho

milkdudd said:


> I haven't purchased mine yet but I've done quite a bit of studying. I had the same concern that with all of the adjustments I might get so deep into all of that and make it worse than it was before I started. The RME website has a video that shows the features of the newest models. It shows a simple way to reset everything back to factory defaults. That's a great feature and would make me willing to try a lot more things. As far as hooking it up to your amp, I think you can hook up any amp that has RCA or balanced inputs. If the amp has a volume control, you should be able to set the outputs of the RME to fixed level. To be sure I would give them a call in Florida, they're great about explaining things


I recently got mine and have to a certain degree familiarised myself with the menu but the actual settings of the EQ etc still goes a bit over my head, the other tweaks are fairly easy to reverse even if they are not fully understood - the reset is a good back up. I don't have much confidence to make EQ adjustments but I have asked others with the same headphones for recommended settings which has given me a couple of EQ profiles which so far have worked well. If you understand EQ it may give you an advantage once you learn how to enter the settings.


----------



## Slaphead (Feb 7, 2021)

Hinomotocho said:


> I recently got mine and have to a certain degree familiarised myself with the menu but the actual settings of the EQ etc still goes a bit over my head, the other tweaks are fairly easy to reverse even if they are not fully understood - the reset is a good back up. I don't have much confidence to make EQ adjustments but I have asked others with the same headphones for recommended settings which has given me a couple of EQ profiles which so far have worked well. If you understand EQ it may give you an advantage once you learn how to enter the settings.



You know how bass and treble controls work, right? OK, EQ is just an extension of that. I'd write a long post about this, but the link below explains it better than I can, and therefore I can get back to drinking beer. Oh and while the link is aimed at musicians/producers, the principles apply to everyday listening as well.

https://blog.landr.com/eq-basics-everything-musicians-need-know-eq/


----------



## Moose246

CaptainFantastic said:


> I have honestly never heard the 789 described as warm before. In fact, most descriptions of it say overly-analytical, cold, sterile. I heard it, but never owned it.



Interesting. Admittedly, I have no other amp to compare it to and I’m new to the game so it’s the only one I’ve heard. Maybe warm isn’t the right word, and the sound signature itself is the same as the ADI, but there’s noticeably edge taken off when going back and forth.


----------



## bcaulf17

Moose246 said:


> Interesting. Admittedly, I have no other amp to compare it to and I’m new to the game so it’s the only one I’ve heard. Maybe warm isn’t the right word, and the sound signature itself is the same as the ADI, but there’s noticeably edge taken off when going back and forth.


Yes, perhaps cleaner and smoother/more liquid transients. The 789 sounds flat, which I like, it puts out what you put in, no color, wire with gain. I wouldn’t describe it as warm but I also wouldn’t describe it as cold. Analytical maybe.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Slaphead said:


> You know how bass and treble controls work, right? OK, EQ is just an extension of that. I'd write a long post about this, but the link below explains it better than I can, and therefore I can get back to drinking beer. Oh and while the link is aimed at musicians/producers, the principles apply to everyday listening as well.
> 
> https://blog.landr.com/eq-basics-everything-musicians-need-know-eq/


Thanks very much for that.


----------



## betula

Moose246 said:


> I have the ADI-2 and the THX 789....it's a great combo.  But, I would be perfectly satisfied using the RME alone.  In my humble opinion, I'd say the 789 makes the background quieter and the sound warmer.  I'd describe it as the RME alone is for more critical listening, where every single noise is heard (sometimes that's good, sometimes bad), while going through the THX you can just sit back and enjoy the listen.  For example, listening to 'Jesus Doesn't Want Me For a Sunbeam' from Nirvana's Unplugged album, at the end of the song the crowd claps.  With the RME every single clap is super crisp and separated, but almost too much so that's it's a little abrasive to the ear.  With the THX the detail is still there but the abrasiveness is gone.  Maybe some of that could be EQ'd away when going back and forth, but that's simply unplugging from one and going straight into the other.  Weird for me to have that opinion since my quest was always for the most _detailed _sound, and to say that too much detail is detrimental to the sound is not something I expected. It's nice to have the option t listen either way, and maybe the effect is minimized using various headphones (I'm using Fostex TH900 mk2's).
> 
> I'd say the RME setup can be as exhausting as you make it.  I honestly haven't even tried any of the fine tuning EQ options....I EQ through the source (JRiver on a desktop PC).  Although I have played a bit with the bass and treble knob adj's and they work well.  The biggest thing I noticed as far as simple "on/off" impacts with the RME were items in the I/O menu, which aren't nearly as intimidating.  In fact, the biggest difference I found was the "Loudness" function, which is a button on the remote.  Turning it on _really _brought out the sound detail mentioned above....but again, almost too much at times.
> 
> My comparisons are very limited as I only have a Mojo.  But I like the capabilities and the sound options with the RME (for example the loudness mentioned above) that are absent in DAC's you simply plug into.  But I'll certainly admit that can be exhausting as well, as you're always wondering "will it sound better if I adjust this".  But I'd still rather have the option.


I think this depends on the headphones as well. I actually did not like adding the THX789 to the RME. You are right, it sounds warmer but at the same time details get lost. It is not a huge difference, but to me it was enough for not keeping the THX amp. Unless you need more power or want a different taste/sound I find adding an amp (at least the THX789) unnecessary. 
There are quite a few options for fine tuning the sound on the RME, filters for example (NOS, Slow) can probably take away that edge in the sound you mentioned.


----------



## Verificateur

A new RME ADI-2 DAC FS owner here. Thank you everyone for sharing your impressions and tips, it’s been great reading this thread.

I do have a question of my own - would it make sense to use the 3.5mm output for not-hard-to-drive headphones such as the Denon AH-D9200?

Or will I benefit more if I plug in the Denon into the 6.3mm jack?

Perhaps anyone who owns the Denon could share their impressions of output from 3.5mm vs 6.3mm?


----------



## captblaze

Verificateur said:


> A new RME ADI-2 DAC FS owner here. Thank you everyone for sharing your impressions and tips, it’s been great reading this thread.
> 
> I do have a question of my own - would it make sense to use the 3.5mm output for not-hard-to-drive headphones such as the Denon AH-D9200?
> 
> ...



the IEM output can't engage hi power, so if your cans are power hungry 6.3mm


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## Verificateur (Feb 8, 2021)

captblaze said:


> the IEM output can't engage hi power, so if your cans are power hungry 6.3mm



Right, so that’s actually my question ... my cans aren’t power hungry (Denon 9200) to my understanding. Which mode is best to use?

In other words, what tempts me by the 3.5mm output is the lower noise and no need to use an adapter. However, I don’t want to use it if the 6.3mm would result in better sound. 

Would appreciate anyone’s input who has the Denon series with the RME.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Verificateur said:


> Right, so that’s actually my question ... my cans aren’t power hungry (Denon 9200) to my understanding. Which mode is best to use?
> 
> In other words, what tempts me by the 3.5mm output is the lower noise and no need to use an adapter. However, I don’t want to use it if the 6.3mm would result in better sound.
> 
> Would appreciate anyone’s input who has the Denon series with the RME.


Even 'easy to drive' headphones can really benefit from more power, I don't understand the technical reason but I highly recommend using the 6.3mm. The iem output is for smaller lower ohm iems, low ohm headphones need higher power output to physically move the large coils/drivers - or something along those lines.


----------



## milkdudd

I think the best thing is you can try both without having to spend any extra money. A win-win. My headphone amp has three different gain settings that are there for me at the touch of a button. No matter what headphones I use I experiment with all three settings. Sometimes even the iems sound better on medium when you would think they would be better with the low gain. Plus experimenting is part of the fun


----------



## Verificateur

Thank you for your responses. Does it mean that it’s almost always beneficial (or, in other words - a safe choice?) to use the 6.3mm output and use the *High gain *option, even with headphones that may not “need” to have that output power?
I guess I am just looking to see what output setting to settle on with easy-to-drive headphones such as D9200/D7200 etc.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Verificateur said:


> Thank you for your responses. Does it mean that it’s almost always beneficial (or, in other words - a safe choice?) to use the 6.3mm output and use the *High gain *option, even with headphones that may not “need” to have that output power?
> I guess I am just looking to see what output setting to settle on with easy-to-drive headphones such as D9200/D7200 etc.


Low gain is more than adequate from what I understand, high gain is probably for those very hard to drive headphones.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Have you ever experienced an elevated noise floor with either option? I didn't


----------



## betula

Verificateur said:


> Right, so that’s actually my question ... my cans aren’t power hungry (Denon 9200) to my understanding. Which mode is best to use?
> 
> In other words, what tempts me by the 3.5mm output is the lower noise and no need to use an adapter. However, I don’t want to use it if the 6.3mm would result in better sound.
> 
> Would appreciate anyone’s input who has the Denon series with the RME.


The headphone output has two power modes; low and high which you can change in the menu according to your headphone's needs or your preference. The 3.5mm output is for IEMs, quite clearly stated even on the device itself. The noise you worry about is inaudible for human ears, can only be detected by super high-end machines. I suggest to follow RME's recommendation for usage. They probably know what they are talking about. That said you have the freedom to try all outputs, but I doubt your Denon will sound better from the IEM output.


----------



## Slaphead

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Have you ever experienced an elevated noise floor with either option? I didn't



The noise floor on the ADI is so vanishingly small that you almost certainly won't hear it on high gain, unless you really push the output, in which case you'll probably hear it briefly, and then will have trouble hearing anything else again.


----------



## TheRH

Has anyone had signal randomly die to RME on Windows even though Windows shows it's playing? If so, how did you fix it?


----------



## brif

TheRH said:


> Has anyone had signal randomly die to RME on Windows even though Windows shows it's playing? If so, how did you fix it?



Looks like you are using Roon. My RME would cut sometimes with Roon. I resolved it by enabling ’Use Maximum Buffer’ in advanced device setup.


----------



## TheRH

Seems there was some glitch with the DAC, I talked to RME, they are super helpful. I just had to reset my DAC. All is good now. RME FTW!


----------



## milkdudd

TheRH said:


> Seems there was some glitch with the DAC, I talked to RME, they are super helpful. I just had to reset my DAC. All is good now. RME FTW!


They are definitely great folks to deal with. Always nice to be able to get a person on the phone


----------



## ThEvil0nE

TheRH said:


> Seems there was some glitch with the DAC, I talked to RME, they are super helpful. I just had to reset my DAC. All is good now. RME FTW!


What glitch was this? Would want to know more.


----------



## JCANs

Happy to join the fam. Received my ADI-2 DAC today (latest model) .
Running my ZMF Aeolus on Low-power with plenty of volume control.
As I am coming from an AK240 / Ifi Zen stack I am happy to say that I am already enjoying it fully.


----------



## JCANs

Hmmm interesting. I put it to HI-output and have it around -35dB. I actually really enjoy to have loudness turned on in this configuration... it seems to make it... more clear?
Any takes? Should I perhaps stay in Low power and just set an EQ?
Using ZMF Aeolus as mentioned above ^^.


----------



## betula

JCANs said:


> Hmmm interesting. I put it to HI-output and have it around -35dB. I actually really enjoy to have loudness turned on in this configuration... it seems to make it... more clear?
> Any takes? Should I perhaps stay in Low power and just set an EQ?
> Using ZMF Aeolus as mentioned above ^^.


I do not think loudness function makes the sound clearer. Perhaps the high power mode gives that perception. Loudness elevates bass and treble slightly, as you decrease volume. It is supposed to compensate the relative loss of those frequencies on lower listening volumes. I also like and use this function, but it has to be set properly according to your usual listening volumes. The manual explains pretty clearly how to set it correctly. 
If it is not done right, it could act like a V-shaped EQ.

Regarding the high output vs. low, I also prefer high. Even though there is plenty of volume in low power mode, I enjoy the extra tightness, dynamics and impact of high power mode. At least with my LCD-X, which is still a huge planar despite the low impedance.


----------



## JCANs

betula said:


> I do not think loudness function makes the sound clearer. Perhaps the high power mode gives that perception. Loudness elevates bass and treble slightly, as you decrease volume. It is supposed to compensate the relative loss of those frequencies on lower listening volumes. I also like and use this function, but it has to be set properly according to your usual listening volumes. The manual explains pretty clearly how to set it correctly.
> If it is not done right, it could act like a V-shaped EQ.
> 
> Regarding the high output vs. low, I also prefer high. Even though there is plenty of volume in low power mode, I enjoy the extra tightness, dynamics and impact of high power mode. At least with my LCD-X, which is still a huge planar despite the low impedance.


Thanks . So indeed I went into the manual and noticed that they also boost the higher frequencies. Looking at several freq response graphs I noticed that the Aeolus has a dip around 4k. I just made a new EQ preset to boost exactly that region (and bump the sub-bass a bit... ssh). So far so good .


----------



## Hoegaardener70

For those who compared the adi-2 FS to the ifi pro idsd, which one did you prefer in comparison? Thanks


----------



## Moose246

JCANs said:


> Thanks . So indeed I went into the manual and noticed that they also boost the higher frequencies. Looking at several freq response graphs I noticed that the Aeolus has a dip around 4k. I just made a new EQ preset to boost exactly that region (and bump the sub-bass a bit... ssh). So far so good .




I'm a big fan of the Loudness feature.  It may not necessarily make the sound _clearer_, but I think it definitely makes it _crisper_. And I actually prefer a V shaped sound....so best of both worlds.


----------



## TheRH (Feb 13, 2021)

ThEvil0nE said:


> What glitch was this? Would want to know more.


Windows was sending a signal to the RME, as shown in the Sound Control Panel, but for some reason, but there was no signal being produced in the DAC. The solution that RME helped me with was a DAC reset, which was quite simple. After that, all was good. I was relieved as Roon, 1.8 had come out and I wanted to use it. The person I was talking to, says that this happens somethings, I.E., the RME has this glitch. As he knew the solution almost right away.


----------



## Slaphead

TheRH said:


> Windows was sending a signal to the RME, as shown in the Sound Control Panel, but for some reason, but there was no signal being produced in the DAC. The solution that RME helped me with was a DAC reset, which was quite simple. After that, all was good. I was relieved as Roon, 1.8 had come out and I wanted to use it. The person I was talking to, says that this happens somethings, I.E., *the RME has this glitch. As he knew the solution almost right away.*



And... the solution?


----------



## TheRH

To reset the DAC in the menu.


----------



## Noobzilla

Been experimenting with iFi iPower X 15v/1.5a, iFi iPower X 12v/2a, and the new iFi iPower Elite 12v/4a on my ADI 2. 

I can't tell the difference between the 15v/1.5a and 12v/2a. There is subtle difference vs stock adapter but could very well be some bias. Decided to return them. Trying out the Elite today and this one has a more significant difference on the sound. I know there's a camp that says there's no difference whichever adapter is used because the stock adapter is good and the internals of ADI will take care of electrical stuff. If anything I am also biased against adapters making any difference because of what the RME guys said about this topic plus I don't want to spend any more on anything audio, but after trying this Elite I am convinced that there is significant enough improvement that I am leaning towards keeping it or looking for something similar at a lower price.


----------



## brif

I'd love to see something like the elite measured on a good scope vs the stock adapter. It would be interesting, I think. I would also like to try them, just to see. I have liked iFi gear that I have owned. But its stuff like this that makes me doubt these products. When they use flashy marketing names like "figighter jet stealth technology" maybe supposed to be "stealth fighter jet technology", but is lost in translation? The F117 is actually pretty old tech at this point . They don't have 1 person on the team that can point out the translation issues and the spelling errors?


----------



## gugges (Feb 22, 2021)

I just ordered the Furman PST-8 D from BH Photo and it is on sale right now. It has all the line filtering technology plus two power banks (one for digital the other for along components). This in theory helps prevent noise output from the digital components that could effect the analog ones like tube amps. Seems better than just buying a power cord as it will help remove noise from my whole chain.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...DIG_PST_8_Digital_Power_Station.html/overview


----------



## Noobzilla

I did notice the figighter on the box and wondered if it's a typo. They do have gimmicky features which make it sound snake oil y. 

Im guessing it's possible that the higher amperage is what's giving it the improvement. I will look for other 12v/4a adapters to test. 

I moved my testing to bass and can tell there's improvement in that area too. I have high bass EQ on my ADI. It's pretty much enough, but with the Elite the bass has more punch and depth that I find the EQ bass now too much on some songs.


----------



## brif

gugges said:


> I just ordered the Furman PST-8 D from BH Photo and it is on sale right now. It has all the line filtering technology plus two power banks (one for digital the other for along components). This in theory helps prevent noise output from the digital components that could effect the analog ones like tube amps. Seems better than just buying a power cord as it will help remove noise from my whole chain.
> 
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...DIG_PST_8_Digital_Power_Station.html/overview


Nice! Looks like a retailer on Amazon is matching the price:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YYVLAK


----------



## gugges

brif said:


> Nice! Looks like a retailer on Amazon is matching the price:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YYVLAK


@brif That is actually the model without the two power banks (PST-8 vs PST-8d) both seem really good, one is just potentially a little better if you are going to use it for digital components as well.


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

Listning through ( my adi 2 pro BE) Can someone please tell me why sounds that come from either left or right channel sometimes in the mix with other Dac/amp are all being played in the middle?


----------



## betula

Emmanuel Palmer said:


> Listning through ( my adi 2 pro BE) Can someone please tell me why sounds that come from either left or right channel sometimes in the mix with other Dac/amp are all being played in the middle?


Perhaps you have crossfeed on a higher level?


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

betula said:


> Perhaps you have crossfeed on a higher level?


No crossfeed


----------



## skhan007

I'm pretty sure the ADI-2 DAC FS will be my next purchase, as I've been doing my homework on what DAC and features I'm after. I'm thoroughly impressed and after reading the Master Switch review, I'm really interested. A couple of questions:

I believe the headphone amp section of the unit can handle high impedance headphones, such as 300 Ohms or higher? Somebody on another thread said no, but that contradicts what I'm seeing and reading, especially with the extreme power option.

Second, the ADI-2 handles 32 bit/768 kHz hi res audio. I don't own any music files (yet) that are anywhere close to that. What music or file types are you all using to put this DAC to the test for that high resolution? I'm relatively new to the topic and see some streaming sites and some hi res files for purchase, but so far, nothing at those high numbers.


----------



## gugges (Feb 24, 2021)

skhan007 said:


> I believe the headphone amp section of the unit can handle high impedance headphones, such as 300 Ohms or higher? Somebody on another thread said no, but that contradicts what I'm seeing and reading, especially with the extreme power option.


Yes, the ADI-2 can handle 300ohm headphones with plenty of loudness and enjoyability like on my ZMF Verite Closed. I would say that based on comments in the ZMF threads, the headphones will shine even more though with a more powerful amp and I am currently awaiting an Amps&Sound Mogwai SE to really bring out the most in my headphones. Regardless, I really do love my RME ADI 2. The EQ and visualizer alone are super powerful tools for customizing the sound and I frequently add different bass shelfs for some of the more bass focused EDM and hip-hop tracks. And the ability to quickly turn the knobs vs fiddle with the software EQ I think is far superior. The RME also measures extremely well and is an excellent pairing for stand alone amplifiers down the road if you choose to raise the bar further.



skhan007 said:


> Second, the ADI-2 handles 32 bit/768 kHz hi res audio. I don't own any music files (yet) that's anywhere close to that. What music or file types are you all using to put this DAC to the test for that high resolution? I'm relatively new to the topic and see some streaming sites and some hi res files for purchase, but so far, nothing at those high numbers.


I use Tidal on Mac and the RME ADI handles the high res files excellently. Even though the Mac does the software unfolding of the MQA the quality that comes through to the headphones is excellent. Most Tidal masters are still 88khz and some 96khz. The advantages of on device MQA decoding are contested and I can at least say that the RME sounds much better playing MQA software decoded than my xDSD sounds playing MQA hardware rendered. FWIW


----------



## Noobzilla

skhan007 said:


> I'm pretty sure the ADI-2 DAC FS will be my next purchase, as I've been doing my homework on what DAC and features I'm after. I'm thoroughly impressed and after reading the Master Switch review, I'm really interested. A couple of questions:
> 
> I believe the headphone amp section of the unit can handle high impedance headphones, such as 300 Ohms or higher? Somebody on another thread said no, but that contradicts what I'm seeing and reading, especially with the extreme power option.
> 
> Second, the ADI-2 handles 32 bit/768 kHz hi res audio. I don't own any music files (yet) that are anywhere close to that. What music or file types are you all using to put this DAC to the test for that high resolution? I'm relatively new to the topic and see some streaming sites and some hi res files for purchase, but so far, nothing at those high numbers.


I do not own a high ohm headphones but at high volumes the ADI starts to struggle a bit. Like the previous post says an Amp will improve the sound. It's still a very solid dac amp combo nonetheless.

You can download flac or dhd though dhd gets closer to that hi res. Heads up to check dhd res because not all albums have super high res. 

 I use Tidal and even purchasing the same song from Tidal gives better quality than their hi fi stream.


----------



## brif

skhan007 said:


> Second, the ADI-2 handles 32 bit/768 kHz hi res audio. I don't own any music files (yet) that are anywhere close to that. What music or file types are you all using to put this DAC to the test for that high resolution? I'm relatively new to the topic and see some streaming sites and some hi res files for purchase, but so far, nothing at those high numbers.



Here is mine playing a DSD256 song via Roon (DoP). You can see the rate in the lower right hand corner of the RME's screen.:


----------



## Slaphead

skhan007 said:


> Second, the ADI-2 handles 32 bit/768 kHz hi res audio. I don't own any music files (yet) that are anywhere close to that. What music or file types are you all using to put this DAC to the test for that high resolution? I'm relatively new to the topic and see some streaming sites and some hi res files for purchase, but so far, nothing at those high numbers.



Just 16/44. There's no benefit from a listener's perspective to bother with going higher. The only reason higher resolution is needed is because it is used in studios is to minimise the quantisation distortion of mixing channels and applying effects. Honestly 768 kHz could produce a frequency about 3 times higher than a bat can hear, and a bat can hear around 110 kHz at max.


----------



## skhan007

Slaphead said:


> Just 16/44. There's no benefit from a listener's perspective to bother with going higher. The only reason higher resolution is needed is because it is used in studios is to minimise the quantisation distortion of mixing channels and applying effects. Honestly 768 kHz could produce a frequency about 3 times higher than a bat can hear, and a bat can hear around 110 kHz at max.


Understood- My current DAC is quite old at this point and has a maximum resolution of 16 bit/96 kHz. Is it safe to conclude that even when listening to 16/44.1 files, the ADI-2 will sound better (given all its features) than my current older DAC? I've got a pretty good pricing on a new one and will be keen on purchasing, but I am indeed curious to get thoughts from you all.


----------



## skhan007

Noobzilla said:


> I do not own a high ohm headphones but at high volumes the ADI starts to struggle a bit. Like the previous post says an Amp will improve the sound. It's still a very solid dac amp combo nonetheless.
> 
> You can download flac or dhd though dhd gets closer to that hi res. Heads up to check dhd res because not all albums have super high res.
> 
> I use Tidal and even purchasing the same song from Tidal gives better quality than their hi fi stream.





brif said:


> Here is mine playing a DSD256 song via Roon (DoP). You can see the rate in the lower right hand corner of the RME's screen.:


Thank you! This is great information. Most likely, I'll try to acquire some songs or albums in FLAC or other hi-res format to hear for myself. I'm still researching streaming services. I know Amazon will have their HD service later this year and I believe I can purchase some of my favorite albums from certain sites. Really curious to hear DSD, as well.


----------



## russsellsthings

Hi there!

I've combed through this thread and just wanted to confirm before I buy... the RME ADI-2 FS only uses ASIO in Windows. Consequently, when using the Tidal App in Windows (which uses WASAPI), there will not be automatic bit-rate switching, and the music will not be bit perfect? The only way around this is to use Audirvana or Roon in Windows? I understand that this is not an issue with MacOS.

Just wanted to make sure I understood before I took the plunge! I live in Canada and unfortunately, our hi-res streaming options are very limited so I use Tidal Masters for my high-res.


----------



## skhan007

Slaphead said:


> Just 16/44. There's no benefit from a listener's perspective to bother with going higher. The only reason higher resolution is needed is because it is used in studios is to minimise the quantisation distortion of mixing channels and applying effects. Honestly 768 kHz could produce a frequency about 3 times higher than a bat can hear, and a bat can hear around 110 kHz at max.


Understood. I just did a bunch of reading over the past few days, including right here in the Sound Science section. Indeed, your assertion is correct and I can see the information and research that speaks to this topic. Very fascinating and clearly, I can save a ton of money by sticking with 16/44.1 ALAC files that I already own. Reading up on this thread and the sound science topic has been quite illuminating.

That being said, look what Mr. Fed Ex man brought me this afternoon:






I'm typing now and getting my first dose of the RME ADI-2 FS, listening to some prog rock. Whoa, I'm beyond impressed right now. No real words to quantify this initial voyage, but I'm absolutely loving the detail and clarity. 

My next quest is to upgrade my headphones. I used to have some HD800, but sold those a while back, not caring for the treble response. I'm currently listening with headphones that I normally use for recording musical instruments which I think are simply just OK. Based on what I've been reading in the Headphones section of the forum, the Focal Clear sound like a good contender. Others have recommended Audeze LCD-2 and 2C. Looking forward to headphone recommendations, if you've got 'em. Back to listening and reading the manual...


----------



## gugges

Congrats @skhan007! You should check out the threads on the ZMF headphones. I haven’t touched my LCDs since getting a pair. They have excellent natural timbre and range. They are also extremely comfortable and look amazing


----------



## Slaphead

skhan007 said:


> Very fascinating and clearly, I can save a ton of money by sticking with 16/44.1 ALAC files that I already own.


Well, yes, and no. A lot of Hi Res tracks have been remastered for release on higher resolution formats. The remastering process ultimately seeks to address the shortcomings of a previous master, and in that respect the Hi Res version may sound subjectively better. Not because it's Hi Res, but because the tonality has been changed through the remastering process. Take a remastered Hi Res track and resample it down to 16/44 and it'll sound exactly the same.

Honestly a lot of Hi Res stuff is sold on secret remasters. In other words the Hi Res version has been artificially altered in secret to subjectively sound better than the 16/44 version. This happens because otherwise nobody would buy Hi Res music, and sometimes it's worth picking up a Hi Res version because the remastering really does make the track or album sound better than the original mastering. But it's nothing to do with the higher sample rate or bit depth.


----------



## Verificateur (Feb 27, 2021)

Can recommend the Denon AH-D9200 @skhan007. 

Some of the very best closed-backs at any price point IMO, and as echoed by others:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...plus-comparisons-reviews.939901/post-15925514

Happens to also be a great pairing with the RME ADI-2 DAC (this is the combo I am using them with for at-desk listening).

Feel free to check out the main thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/denon-ah-d9200-2018-flagship-impressions-thread.882028/


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Moose246 said:


> Anyone use a SACD player with the RME?  I'm pretty clueless on whether it's possible or worth it.  But I have quite a few discs (all hybrids) that I'm curious about and currently don't own a player.


You still need an SACD transport that will play the physical disc. Not many SACD players have any sort of full resolution output. If anything, HDMI, and that will not be useful with the RME.


----------



## acguitar84 (Feb 27, 2021)

skhan007 said:


> Understood. I just did a bunch of reading over the past few days, including right here in the Sound Science section. Indeed, your assertion is correct and I can see the information and research that speaks to this topic. Very fascinating and clearly, I can save a ton of money by sticking with 16/44.1 ALAC files that I already own. Reading up on this thread and the sound science topic has been quite illuminating.
> 
> That being said, look what Mr. Fed Ex man brought me this afternoon:
> 
> ...


Congratulations! I remember seeing your question a week or so ago on another thread and telling you I'm enjoying my RME DAC and you should research/look into it. I actually have two of them, the one out at the office is the V1 and the one at home is V2. I don't really hear any difference between them though, they both sound fantastic! Again, congratulations on your purchase and happy listening!!


----------



## skhan007

acguitar84 said:


> Congratulations! I remember seeing your question a week or so ago on another thread and telling you I'm enjoying my RME DAC and you should research/look into it. I actually have two of them, the one out at the office is the V1 and the one at home is V2. I don't really hear any difference between them though, they both sound fantastic! Again, congratulations on your purchase and happy listening!!


Yes indeed! I was going to send you a PM to thank you, as I took your recommendation, researched it via reading reviews and watching videos, and was completely sold. You were absolutely right. Now that I have the RME ADI-2, I'm hearing just how amazing it truly is. You guidance is greatly appreciated and thank you for this recommendation. I'm very happy with this purchase!


----------



## sabloke (Feb 27, 2021)

Got a question fir the headphone/preamp experts. Looking at buying a Burson Audio Soloist 3XP preamp & headphone amp to use with the RME DAC and Focal Shape 65 active monitors. Not that the RME by itself is bad but I could use more power and authority with both headphones and monitors. I also use a M&K 12" active subwoofer that is connected via RCA to the DAC while the monitors are running on the XLR. As you know, the balanced and single entry run simultaneously out of the RME so the sound is pretty good, with the sub providing hilarious amount of thunder and rumble. If I get the Soloist, it will run in balanced mode of course, but there's no way to connect the sub via RCA to it. So my question is, would be OK to keep the sub connected to the RME on RCA, run XLRs to Soloist and from there output XLR to the monitors? Do you think there might be some sort of delay due to the monitors being run through the separate preamp? I would control the volume from the RME DAC of course.

The Soloist got some raving reviews and I'm quite tempted but I'd hate to have to plug and unplug cables any time I switch between headphones and monitors.


----------



## Wladimir

How bout something that has both pre-amp outputs active like GS-X Mini? And it has plenty of authority, I can tell you that


----------



## sabloke

Wladimir said:


> ow bout something that has both pre-amp outputs active like GS-X Mini? And it has plenty of authority, I can tell you that


Sure looks nice but it does cost almost twice as much by the time I bring it down under... Plus, I always wanted to own Burson Audio gear  I can go to a store with my DAC and listen to it, too.


----------



## ThEvil0nE (Feb 27, 2021)

sabloke said:


> Got a question fir the headphone/preamp experts. Looking at buying a Burson Audio Soloist 3XP preamp & headphone amp to use with the RME DAC and Focal Shape 65 active monitors. Not that the RME by itself is bad but I could use more power and authority with both headphones and monitors. I also use a M&K 12" active subwoofer that is connected via RCA to the DAC while the monitors are running on the XLR. As you know, the balanced and single entry run simultaneously out of the RME so the sound is pretty good, with the sub providing hilarious amount of thunder and rumble. If I get the Soloist, it will run in balanced mode of course, but there's no way to connect the sub via RCA to it. So my question is, would be OK to keep the sub connected to the RME on RCA, run XLRs to Soloist and from there output XLR to the monitors? Do you think there might be some sort of delay due to the monitors being run through the separate preamp? I would control the volume from the RME DAC of course.
> 
> The Soloist got some raving reviews and I'm quite tempted but I'd hate to have to plug and unplug cables any time I switch between headphones and monitors.



You're more than fine doing it. If anything, the only change that could occur, which I don't really see any adverse effect as the Soloist is a solid product, is the quality of signal coming out of the Soloist to your active monitor.

I have the FS v2 + Reproducer Epic 5 (pc setup) and ADI-2 Pro + PSI A17-M (living room). If I ever need a headphone amp, I would be going the Soloist route myself but since I get more ear time with the monitor/mastering speakers than headphones, no amp work fine with me atm.


----------



## skhan007

Slaphead said:


> Well, yes, and no. A lot of Hi Res tracks have been remastered for release on higher resolution formats. The remastering process ultimately seeks to address the shortcomings of a previous master, and in that respect the Hi Res version may sound subjectively better. Not because it's Hi Res, but because the tonality has been changed through the remastering process. Take a remastered Hi Res track and resample it down to 16/44 and it'll sound exactly the same.
> 
> Honestly a lot of Hi Res stuff is sold on secret remasters. In other words the Hi Res version has been artificially altered in secret to subjectively sound better than the 16/44 version. This happens because otherwise nobody would buy Hi Res music, and sometimes it's worth picking up a Hi Res version because the remastering really does make the track or album sound better than the original mastering. But it's nothing to do with the higher sample rate or bit depth.


Understood. So, for example, if I already own a remastered release of an album on CD it should sound the same as buying the same album as a hi-res version, as a 24/192 download file.

However, if there is a favorite album of mine that hasn't been released as a remastered CD, I could consider downloading the hi-res version, but what I'd be really hearing is the remastering and not the increased bit depth and sample rate, correct? If so, that makes a lot of sense.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Moose246 said:


> Certainly for my system, which is simply fed from my pc to the RME and using a great but not insane set of headphones (Fostex TH900 mk2).


This is a KILLER combo. And I have said many times, the RME is the best thousand euros/dollars etc. that you can ever spend on audio.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> I ordered this headphone stand. The bottom fits perfect under the rme adi 2 and it looks like 1 unit . Very clean and space saving. It was a bit short i had to space it with some spacers at the back. I wanted to share this idea with you maybe some one like it and want to do the same
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07KWV2GW2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_DZWVBHCGRFXWYKQHM573?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1





realmassy said:


> Ah, nice one! Pretty much the same as my RME on the base of my LG monitor, it fits just fine


What's lacking on both those stands is a mounting bracket for the RME so it doesn't jump all over when you use the controls. I guess even some double-sided tape would help 



bcaulf17 said:


> It’s just such a sexy unit. How does the amp portion perform? More specifically, how does it sound compared to the THX 789? I read the 789 is better on paper and that’s the one I have (and love) but shelling out $1200 for just a DAC is a tough pill for me to swallow, even for a device as nice as this. So I would sell the 789 and just use the RME. If I pulled the trigger.


The amp is a good amp for an all in one (well, not including Violectrics). It is not a good amp compared to standalone amps. It depends on your headphones. Audeze up to LCD-3F, Fostex (not 50/60RP) are incredible. Sennheiser 300 ohm cans, meh.


----------



## Wladimir

gimmeheadroom said:


> And I have said many times, the RME is the best thousand euros/dollars etc. that you can ever spend on audio.


This is, imho, the truest statement ever


----------



## skhan007

Cevisi said:


> I ordered this headphone stand. The bottom fits perfect under the rme adi 2 and it looks like 1 unit . Very clean and space saving. It was a bit short i had to space it with some spacers at the back. I wanted to share this idea with you maybe some one like it and want to do the same
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07KWV2GW2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_DZWVBHCGRFXWYKQHM573?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


This looks great! Can you specify what kind of spacers were needed? If I order this stand, I may have to do the same.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I would wrap some good layers of tape around those legs so nothing shorts


----------



## Slaphead

skhan007 said:


> Understood. So, for example, if I already own a remastered release of an album on CD it should sound the same as buying the same album as a hi-res version, as a 24/192 download file.
> 
> However, if there is a favorite album of mine that hasn't been released as a remastered CD, I could consider downloading the hi-res version, but what I'd be really hearing is the remastering and not the increased bit depth and sample rate, correct? If so, that makes a lot of sense.


Well there's remasters, and there's remasters, and there's remasters. Just because you have a CD that's a remaster doesn't mean to say it's the same remaster as being offered on Hi-Res, and as I said some of these are done secretively, and by that I mean no public announcement, simply to make the Hi-Res version sound different.

Also it's quite possible that a Hi-Res track hasn't been remastered at all, so it should theoretically sound the same as the CD, right? Well it's highly possible that the ADC (Analog to Digital Conversion) used in the Hi-Res version is significantly more advanced than the original ADC that used for the initial CD - This is especially prevalent amongst CDs released in the eighties and early nineties when ADC was a bit ropey, so again you may be getting a better conversion by going for the Hi-Res version.

A lot of popular albums have been remastered god knows how many times - take Miles Davis' Kind of Blue for example. There's a new remaster of this almost every year, everytime touted to extract the most from the master tapes.

Remasters are a deep deep rabbit hole, and honestly my advice is to take the blue pill - If you like what you've already got then that's cool. All I'm saying is that for a given recording/remaster 16/44 is all you need as a listener. There are no advantages in terms of fidelity to going higher than that.


----------



## ThEvil0nE

I use these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PKV9D7R to keep the DAC-2 in place. Makes turning the volume and specially no.2 knob so much easier plus it adds more airflow underneath the unit. I also use them on my Roland VR-1HD.


----------



## Bazaar

Well, I've finally waded through all 268 pages . There was actually a wealth of info, especially for setting EQ; for example, I found out how to set Band 6 & 7 on the RME!

So far I'm liking what I'm hearing, fiddling w/ the PEQ a little, as I'm still trying to decide between the HD820 and the HD800S for the long run.


----------



## skhan007

Bazaar said:


> Well, I've finally waded through all 268 pages . There was actually a wealth of info, especially for setting EQ; for example, I found out how to set Band 6 & 7 on the RME!
> 
> So far I'm liking what I'm hearing, fiddling w/ the PEQ a little, as I'm still trying to decide between the HD820 and the HD800S for the long run.


Any chance you can point me to which pages in this thread provide this info? Just got my ADI-2 yesterday and I’m fumbling around trying to learn the EQ settings.


----------



## Bazaar

These were some key ones:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/eq-settings-for-700-headphones.885196/
One of the key things was having someone mention that Band 6 & 7 are the Bass & Treble  Otherwise, it was tough trying to transpose an 11-band to 5-band (use the first 5 bands and map to the RME PEQ).

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ost-ideal-sound-for-non-professionals.796791/
https://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Graphic-Equalizer
https://blog.landr.com/eq-basics-everything-musicians-need-know-eq/

For my 800S: 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-thread.868015/post-15918545
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/f0od0n/rme_adi2_dac_eq_configuration_for_hd800s/


----------



## Moose246 (Feb 28, 2021)

Slaphead said:


> Well there's remasters, and there's remasters, and there's remasters. Just because you have a CD that's a remaster doesn't mean to say it's the same remaster as being offered on Hi-Res, and as I said some of these are done secretively, and by that I mean no public announcement, simply to make the Hi-Res version sound different.
> 
> Also it's quite possible that a Hi-Res track hasn't been remastered at all, so it should theoretically sound the same as the CD, right? Well it's highly possible that the ADC (Analog to Digital Conversion) used in the Hi-Res version is significantly more advanced than the original ADC that used for the initial CD - This is especially prevalent amongst CDs released in the eighties and early nineties when ADC was a bit ropey, so again you may be getting a better conversion by going for the Hi-Res version.
> 
> ...



Through my experience I really tried to give hi-res the benefit of the doubt when deciding which version I liked best, simply because in theory, and technically, it should be better.  Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not.  I go by what my ears and mind tell me sounds best.  I read a quote on one of these boards once....wish I could quote who said it but I have no idea...and though not verbatim, the gist was "judging listenability by technical results [DR, etc] is like saying whether or not a woman is attractive using measurements only".


----------



## Cevisi

skhan007 said:


> This looks great! Can you specify what kind of spacers were needed? If I order this stand, I may have to do the same.


https://www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/B07B...=1&keywords=m3+standoff&qid=1614574772&sr=8-4


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Moose246 said:


> Through my experience I really tried to give hi-res the benefit of the doubt when deciding which version I liked best, simply because in theory, and technically, it should be better.  Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not.  I go by what my ears and mind tell me sounds best.  I read a quote on one of these boards once....wish I could quote who said it but I have no idea...and though not verbatim, the gist was "judging listenability by technical results [DR, etc] is like saying whether or not a woman is attractive using measurements only".


All other things equal, hires is definitely better. But without comparing the same master (which is probably not possible in most cases because the streaming sources don't specify that) you really don't know.  As far as the last line, see my sig for @Jandu wisdom


----------



## skhan007

Question: I've just gotten my new ADI-2 set up and I downloaded a DSD256 file to test out this resolution. My media player displays DSD, 22579 kbps, and 88.2 kHz. The clock on the ADI-2 (bottom right) reads INT 44.1. From what I'm reading in the manual, the sample rate should be automatically read by the ADI-2 unit. Curious why it says 44.1 when my media player says something different. I'm using the USB cable, if that makes any difference. Any ideas?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

You do need to use the ASIO drivers, there are two separate downloads on the RME site, one is device firmware, the other is USB drivers. And you need to point your player at the ASIO drivers.

A 44.1 MHz clock is correct for DSD. It sounds like your player is converting to PCM.


----------



## skhan007

gimmeheadroom said:


> You do need to use the ASIO drivers, there are two separate downloads on the RME site, one is device firmware, the other is USB drivers. And you need to point your player at the ASIO drivers.
> 
> A 44.1 MHz clock is correct for DSD. It sounds like your player is converting to PCM.


Thanks- On the RME site, I see one download for Mac under the Audio Firmware and Driver Download page:

https://www.rme-usa.com/downloads.html

It's a zip file. Just making sure this is the what you're recommending. Apologies, as I'm not very fluent in software, drivers, etc. Assuming this is the right file to download and install, how do I then point my player at the ASIO drivers?


----------



## jshaevitz

skhan007 said:


> Thanks- On the RME site, I see one download for Mac under the Audio Firmware and Driver Download page:
> 
> https://www.rme-usa.com/downloads.html
> 
> It's a zip file. Just making sure this is the what you're recommending. Apologies, as I'm not very fluent in software, drivers, etc. Assuming this is the right file to download and install, how do I then point my player at the ASIO drivers?


On a mac you need to run "Audio MIDI setup" and tell the computer what rate to use for the RME. It will not set it automatically. I leave mine at 192kHz.


----------



## Moose246

gimmeheadroom said:


> All other things equal, hires is definitely better. But without comparing the same master (which is probably not possible in most cases because the streaming sources don't specify that) you really don't know.  As far as the last line, see my sig for @Jandu wisdom



Ha - sure enough, there it is!  Awesome.


----------



## skhan007 (Mar 1, 2021)

jshaevitz said:


> On a mac you need to run "Audio MIDI setup" and tell the computer what rate to use for the RME. It will not set it automatically. I leave mine at 192kHz.


Thanks- Editing my findings, as I'm clearly fumbling around trying to figure it out! I've selected ADI-2 in the Audio Midi section and selected 192 kHz from the menu.

The reading on the INT value is now 192. Do I simply look at my media player to see the sample rate or does the ADI-2 tell me somewhere what sample rate it's receiving?


----------



## jshaevitz

skhan007 said:


> Thanks- This set up page is new to me. Under the Channels tab, the max choice is 32 bit float (96.0 kHz); Bit depth has a max choice of 32 bit 2 channel float (96.0 kHz); For Format, max choice is Integer 24 bit 2 channel 96.0 kHz; and lastly, rate has a max choice of 2 channel 32 bit float 96.0 kHz.
> 
> Should I select the max for all of these or just the rate column? Curious why I don't have a 192kHz as any choice?


Hmm, not sure. This is what I see: 


. Maybe a MacOS version issue?


----------



## skhan007

jshaevitz said:


> Hmm, not sure. This is what I see: . Maybe a MacOS version issue?


Got it! Edited my post above, as I was on the wrong screen apparently. Thank you. 

I did have this other question: Does the ADI-2 tell me what sample rate it's receiving/playing or will the INT 192 reading remain constant in the lower right?


----------



## jshaevitz

skhan007 said:


> Got it! Edited my post above, as I was on the wrong screen apparently. Thank you.
> 
> I did have this other question: Does the ADI-2 tell me what sample rate it's receiving/playing or will the INT 192 reading remain constant in the lower right?


It will remain constant and I believe it is always be transmitting at 192kHz. Anything less gets upsampled.


----------



## Tlen (Mar 1, 2021)

Hi,
anyone knows how does this compare (sounding point of view) with DX220 + AMP7 (or can someone point me to a comparison thread or resource)?
Thank you very much


----------



## skhan007

Guys, please let me know if there's anything else I should know regarding setup on my MacBook. I've watched the RME videos on youtube and read the manual. Thanks to @jshaevitz for input so far. If there's more I should know, suggestions are most appreciated. 


I've got my MacBook set up with the Audio Midi selection set to 192kHz, which is confirmed by the INT 192 clock readout on the ADI-2 screen.
I'm using a USB connection.
The State Overview page confirms USB connection with no other inputs being indicated. This page also reflects the 192 kHz selection. However, I'm not sure if the 2/2 variable should read DSD when playing a DSD256 track. I saw on the video that the color of the screen/EQ should change color with a DSD file, but mine does not. 
I don't know how to confirm that my file is being received and played as a DSD256 file. If anyone knows, please inform.


----------



## Marutks (Mar 1, 2021)

State Overview should look like this when playing DSD 256:









I use Colibri to play DSD 256 files.   

Audirvana (on Mac) can't handle DSD 256 files.    I tried two different macbooks,  two different DACs ( D90 and RME ) , "better" USB cables.  Nothing helped.


----------



## skhan007

Marutks said:


> State Overview should look like this when playing DSD 256:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you- I'm curious if it is my media player (VOX) converting DSD to PCM output, thus the ADI-2 sees the file as PCM audio. It looks like the Colibri player is $5 USD, so not a big investment I suppose. The screen shot you've displayed is what I'm hoping to see. Perhaps I need to try a different media player?


----------



## Marutks

Try Colibri or HQPlayer.   VOX can't play DSD files directly AFAIK.


----------



## skhan007

Marutks said:


> Try Colibri or HQPlayer.   VOX can't play DSD files directly AFAIK.


A thousand times thank you! Yes, it was the media player. I downloaded the test version of Colibri Player and played the file. The display now accurately reflects the DSD file and correct sample rate. I'll make this media player purchase for sure.


----------



## ABlide

Just got the ADI-2 and plugged it between my Node2 and Woo WA3 (upgraded with Tungsten tubes) , listening thought Utopias. I like the sound, I find small things that are nicer and tell myself that the sound is a bit more cohesive, natural and "real". Then I remove the ADI-2 from the chain and begin to question if its really a 1000 EUR difference I am hearing..
I know, only my eras can tell me whats right.. But I keep thinking that the difference is so small that I am not sure if its worth the cost. Anyone having the same "problem"? Should I go for a DAC in the 2000-3000 EUR class to see som eye-opening change? Or is the ADI-2 all of a sudden the best in my chain and its the amp that should be upgraded?


----------



## Marutks (Mar 2, 2021)

ABlide said:


> Should I go for a DAC in the 2000-3000 EUR class to see som eye-opening change? Or is the ADI-2 all of a sudden the best in my chain and its the amp that should be upgraded?



All DACs sound more or less the same. Have you seen this?



Even expensive Holo May (~ 5000 $) doesn't sound any different than a 200$ delta sigma DAC.
Amplifiers make more difference.  I think you can get Auris Nirvana amp for a similar price.
I don't know if it is the best amp for your Utopia headphones.  ( probably ECP DSHA 3F )


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ABlide said:


> Just got the ADI-2 and plugged it between my Node2 and Woo WA3 (upgraded with Tungsten tubes) , listening thought Utopias. I like the sound, I find small things that are nicer and tell myself that the sound is a bit more cohesive, natural and "real". Then I remove the ADI-2 from the chain and begin to question if its really a 1000 EUR difference I am hearing..
> I know, only my eras can tell me whats right.. But I keep thinking that the difference is so small that I am not sure if its worth the cost. Anyone having the same "problem"? Should I go for a DAC in the 2000-3000 EUR class to see som eye-opening change? Or is the ADI-2 all of a sudden the best in my chain and its the amp that should be upgraded?


Too much in the chain to have any idea where the problem is and not enough info.

Why don't you use the USB ASIO drivers, set your RME on high gain and run the Utopias right off the RME?


----------



## ABlide

Will try that!

I use the Woo since I likte the tube sound (have tried some straight from ADI but not enought to know if I like it or not) and use the Node2 for the convinience of streaming "from" my phone while sitting on the couch  

Maybe the word "problem" is a bit strong here, but just feelt like writing something since I did not feel that blown away by the added performance. Will play around and see how it goes.


----------



## realmassy

ABlide said:


> Just got the ADI-2 and plugged it between my Node2 and Woo WA3 (upgraded with Tungsten tubes) , listening thought Utopias. I like the sound, I find small things that are nicer and tell myself that the sound is a bit more cohesive, natural and "real". Then I remove the ADI-2 from the chain and begin to question if its really a 1000 EUR difference I am hearing..
> I know, only my eras can tell me whats right.. But I keep thinking that the difference is so small that I am not sure if its worth the cost. Anyone having the same "problem"? Should I go for a DAC in the 2000-3000 EUR class to see som eye-opening change? Or is the ADI-2 all of a sudden the best in my chain and its the amp that should be upgraded?


I think your ears are telling you the truth, and it's nice to see some honesty and common sense. 
Truth is, there are better way to invest 1000EUR in audio: the improvement (in terms of object quality or personal enjoyment) you'll gain either by getting a new headphone or upgrading the existing one is going to be much bigger than upgrading the DAC. 
In your case, as you've got already a fantastic pair of Utopias, you could spend 1000 EUR in a new pair of headphones, ideally high impedance to match nicely your amp.


----------



## go_vtec (Mar 5, 2021)

ABlide said:


> Just got the ADI-2 and plugged it between my Node2 and Woo WA3 (upgraded with Tungsten tubes) , listening thought Utopias. I like the sound, I find small things that are nicer and tell myself that the sound is a bit more cohesive, natural and "real". Then I remove the ADI-2 from the chain and begin to question if its really a 1000 EUR difference I am hearing..
> I know, only my eras can tell me whats right.. But I keep thinking that the difference is so small that I am not sure if its worth the cost. Anyone having the same "problem"? Should I go for a DAC in the 2000-3000 EUR class to see som eye-opening change? Or is the ADI-2 all of a sudden the best in my chain and its the amp that should be upgraded?


Frankly, I think this should be a separate thread to get more open and may even possibly polar opposite opinions to chime in instead of only RME ADI owners or folks who are interested in RME.  There are two polar opposite sides of the DAC camps, where one side believe DACs won't make any differences vs DACs make huge differences.

If you are honestly believe that spending 3000 EUR on DAC will improve the sounds substantially over RME ADI, I would just want to caution you to slow down and think about your investment strategy.  No one here will stop you from spending your own money, but you need to understand that for modern DACs, you are actually paying for how they are built, design, features, technology innovation, materials, built-philosophy, and sometimes exclusivity of owning a brand name.

Most of these DACs will measure differently on sophisticated lab machines, but for most of human ears, differences may not be clearly detectable or even clearly discernable between DACs costing few hundreds to DACs costing few thousands.  Even comparing drastically different DAC implementations like Denafrips R2R DACs vs one of the best measuring "reasonably affordable" D90S DAC, audible differences will be subtle to very subtle in a typical listening environment.

ADI-2's benefit is that it is a confident DAC AND a fancy sound processor with parametric display as all in one package with a usable headphone amp (not a super powerful one, but works OK for most of efficient IEMs or headphones).  It allows you to tweak the eq without having to modify and run through software plug ins on PC/Mac or force you to use an analog equalizer to modify the sounds.  If you want a drastic sound improvement or want to hear something different, then your strategy will work better with another pair of great headphones that can complement Utopia.  Of course, YMMV and if you have a deep pocket with spare money, you can always buy whatever makes you happy ("better" DAC and/or cables for your Utopia).  However, I wouldn't expect a night and day difference by dumping another 3000 EUR on a DAC to let you experience your Utopia drastically differently or improved over RME ADI-2.  Please take this as a few grains of salt like everyone else's opinions.


----------



## Marutks

realmassy said:


> ideally high impedance to match nicely your amp.



I would recommend ZMF Verite.   They sound great with tube amplifiers.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ABlide said:


> Will try that!
> 
> I use the Woo since I likte the tube sound (have tried some straight from ADI but not enought to know if I like it or not) and use the Node2 for the convinience of streaming "from" my phone while sitting on the couch
> 
> Maybe the word "problem" is a bit strong here, but just feelt like writing something since I did not feel that blown away by the added performance. Will play around and see how it goes.


I think using a low end tube amp which is not very resolving is a good way not to be blown away by a source. I run a Lyr 2 off my RME for certain headphones and if I hear something wrong or don't hear something I should hear, the RME is last on my list of things to consider. It is the best 1000 euros/pounds/dollars anybody can ever spend on audio. It is that good.

It takes a while to hear what a new piece of gear has to say. I know when you spend a lot of money you expect wow moments. And I believe if you listen to it long enough you will get them. But as things get better they don't hit you over the head. It's the subtleties that matter and it just takes time to absorb.


----------



## skhan007

For those of you using the RME ADI-2 as your headphone amp, what headphones do you guys like for rock/prog music? I'm going to check out some Focal Clear cans hopefully soon and think these might be a good match, but what do I know.


----------



## gugges

I can’t say it enough, the ZMF headphones kill it for rock. Such natural tones and euphony in the sound. Guitars, vocals and drums all really shine


----------



## skhan007

gugges said:


> I can’t say it enough, the ZMF headphones kill it for rock. Such natural tones and euphony in the sound. Guitars, vocals and drums all really shine


Cool- any model in particular?


----------



## Progisus

skhan007 said:


> For those of you using the RME ADI-2 as your headphone amp, what headphones do you guys like for rock/prog music? I'm going to check out some Focal Clear cans hopefully soon and think these might be a good match, but what do I know.


Prog lover and Utopia is a great match. Been listening a lot lately to iem EE LX. The Future Bites playing now.


----------



## gugges

skhan007 said:


> Cool- any model in particular?


I fell in love with their entry level Aeolus open back, and now have their flagship Verite which rock even on the RME despite being 300ohm. Haven’t heard the rest, but they are all good from what the community has shared via reviews


----------



## Bazaar (Mar 4, 2021)

skhan007 said:


> For those of you using the RME ADI-2 as your headphone amp, what headphones do you guys like for rock/prog music? I'm going to check out some Focal Clear cans hopefully soon and think these might be a good match, but what do I know.


HD820, prog rock is my typical genre (as my avatar shows  ). But I listen to a wide variety, jazz, classical, 60's, 70's, 80's w/ the 820s


----------



## skhan007

Awesome! Thanks and I’ll look into all of these.


----------



## Moose246

skhan007 said:


> For those of you using the RME ADI-2 as your headphone amp, what headphones do you guys like for rock/prog music? I'm going to check out some Focal Clear cans hopefully soon and think these might be a good match, but what do I know.




I use Fostex TH900mk2 and love them.  Don't have a lot of experience with various models so can't really say one is better than the other.  I do have other inferior (my opinion) to the TH900's:  HD650, HE400i, ATH-M50x.  They're all good sounding, just not at the Fostex level.


----------



## skhan007

Progisus said:


> Prog lover and Utopia is a great match. Been listening a lot lately to iem EE LX. The Future Bites playing now.


I took my laptop and ADI-2 to the local hifi shop and got to test drive the Utopia. I’ll spare the tearfully gushing narrative, but let’s say I was impressed. And by that I mean, floored. And by that I mean mind-blown. But I digress. Curious- by new, at a bit of a discount off retail pricing, or try to source a used set?

I’m certainly open to the other headphones suggested, but wow, these were just incredible.


----------



## acguitar84

I absolutely love my Utopia Headphones!! Every since they've arrived they've been all I've listened to. To the point where I stay up way later at night than I should.

Computer to RME adi-2 to Headamp gsx mini to Utopia! Fun!!


----------



## sabloke

Try the Clear, you might like them better and they're a lot cheaper than Utopia.


----------



## skhan007 (Mar 6, 2021)

Bazaar said:


> HD820, prog rock is my typical genre (as my avatar shows  ). But I listen to a wide variety, jazz, classical, 60's, 70's, 80's w/ the 820s


I'm feeling a bit unsettled as I consider the $4K Utopia. I used to own Sennheiser HD800 and thought they were excellent, but a bit too spikey/prominent in some of the high frequencies. Since we listen to the same style of music, do you feel the HD820 has a good, strong, presence in the highs without the HD800 spike and potential fatigue? How are the lows? I'm hoping for balanced and not oppressively boomy. I'm reading reviews as we speak and curious if the HD820 solved some of my gripes with the HD800. Clearly, it's a more cost-effective choice over the Utopia.



sabloke said:


> Try the Clear, you might like them better and they're a lot cheaper than Utopia.


I did! I compared the Stellia, Clear, and Utopia. All back-to-back. The Clear were very good and if the Utopia wasn't present, it would have been the top contender. Cost-wise, it's a mere fraction of the cost. What stopped me was that 1) The comfort of the top band. It was pressing pretty hard on the top of my head and I tried adjusting it every which way, but still noted unusual pressure on the top. 2) The Utopia was mind-blowing and I thought I should pause and really consider how much I was willing to spend, would I be happy with the Clear in the long run or would I regret not buying the Utopia. Trying to decide right now!


----------



## captblaze

skhan007 said:


> I'm feeling a bit unsettled as I consider the $4K Utopia. I used to own Sennheiser HD800 and thought they were excellent, but a bit too spikey/prominent in some of the high frequencies. Since we listen to the same style of music, do you feel the HD820 has a good, strong, presence in the highs without the HD800 spike and potential fatigue? How are the lows? I'm hoping for balanced and not oppressively boomy. I'm reading reviews as we speak and curious if the HD820 solved some of my gripes with the HD800. Clearly, it's a more cost-effective choice over the Utopia.
> 
> 
> I did! I compared the Stellia, Clear, and Utopia. All back-to-back. The Clear were very good and if the Utopia wasn't present, it would have been the top contender. Cost-wise, it's a mere fraction of the cost. What stopped me was that 1) The comfort of the top band. It was pressing pretty hard on the top of my head and I tried adjusting it every which way, but still noted unusual pressure on the top. 2) The Utopia was mind-blowing and I thought I should pause and really consider how much I was willing to spend, would I be happy with the Clear in the long run or would I regret not buying the Utopia. Trying to decide right now!


to borrow from an old carpenter saying... 

measure twice, cut once


----------



## Bazaar

skhan007 said:


> I'm feeling a bit unsettled as I consider the $4K Utopia. I used to own Sennheiser HD800 and thought they were excellent, but a bit too spikey/prominent in some of the high frequencies. Since we listen to the same style of music, do you feel the HD820 has a good, strong, presence in the highs without the HD800 spike and potential fatigue? How are the lows? I'm hoping for balanced and not oppressively boomy. I'm reading reviews as we speak and curious if the HD820 solved some of my gripes with the HD800. Clearly, it's a more cost-effective choice over the Utopia.


I do think the HD820 highs are good, strong and not too 'harsh'. Straight out of the RME, the lows are pretty strong, a little 'boomier' than the 800S, but also a little muddier. But even at this default flat level, I preferred the 820 over the 800S.

However, I've tuned the RME PEQ based on the Oratory1990 settings and it's tempered the bass a little, so it's much clearer to me. I did boost the bass a bit from those settings for my personal preference (I'm hardly a bass-head, can't listen to (too) heavy bass w/out getting a headache).

Still going back-and-forth w/ the HD800S, but I am leaning towards keeping the 820.


----------



## go_vtec (Mar 6, 2021)

This is slightly off topic, but I am trying to share my personal experience with Utopia and benefit of RME as one of its use cases to justify putting a reply in this thread.

@skhan007 Utopia is a fine headphone which is probably is one the very best open dynamic headphones in the world.  It has an excellent build quality as a flagship.  However, it is not without any flaws just like all other headphones. To my ears, it has a couple of peaks in mid range areas where they can add bit of life-like presence, but it can also be a border line harsh on certain aggressively mixed metal/rock/live jazz musics.  It's treble has some uneven peaks to bring more air and lively sound, but for some tracks, it sounds slightly unnatural to artificially harsh/aggressive for some songs.  It has a clean and tight bass, but it is not the most detailed bass and I felt it could use a little more articulation or authority for its price category. 

FYI, I am nick-picking since you've asked.  YMMV, but I couldn't justify its $4K price tag with some of these rather minor issues.  For some, these aren't as important since you have the tool, RME to equalize to compensate.  Although I don't eq all my headphones, I see nothing wrong with equalizing to boost a tad bit of bass and tame certain peaks.

However, for my use cases, I found Clear to be slightly better suited for my needs for dynamic headphones that gets within 90-95% of Utopia with slightly less dynamic, details, and spacial differentiation/soundstage.  When you consider you can get a mint Clear for under$1K used, it is a quite a bit of bargain.  However, if you want absolute details and prefer a light and easy to drive flagship headphones, Utopia is hard to beat. 

If you are concerned with the price of $4K (or slightly less with discount), you can always consider a used pair for around $2-2.5K.  Having warranty may be important for some but not for me (YMMV) since the only headphones I ever had to use send in for a factory repair service was Grados after using them for nearly two decades.  For planar headphones, I think warranty may be worth as the extra insurance or even required for the earlier Audeze headphones.  For Focal, I am not 100% certain that it will be really important.  One of the most positive thing to note is that Utopia is the least maintenance challenged headphones in the Focal line compared to Clear and Stelia. Black leather earpads and headband are a lot easier to handle with some leather conditioner than other other variations of Focal earpads or headbands.  For the record, I have Clear and I am using a headband cover and Dekoni Fenestrated Sheepskin earpads that resemble Utopia's earpads.  On Clear, the sonic signature changes little bit, but nothing RME can't handle.  

Finally, to share my experience, unless you are planning on buying multiple $4K flagship headphones, you should consider other headphones in the price range to make the final determination. All headphones have certain issues to be considered as flaws for some or benefits for the others.  At a $4K flagship headphone category, I don't typically expect the most neutral and most reference quality headphones.   However, my expectation for the flagship is something with the characters unique to the brand or technology that I will enjoy very much so that I am willing embrace its flaws or issues for the sake of ownership and for the enjoyments.  For each company's headphone line up, usually 2nd or 3rd high end models offer more neutral or reference like sound quality and/or more cost efficient way to experience the family signature.

Not everyone may share my sentiment on this issue, but I found Clear offers near similar family sonic signature with less build quality, details, layer separation, and dynamic headroom, but more round/neutral sonic signature to serve as a reference headphones to complement my other reference headphones Senn HD800S.  Here I am exaggerating the differences since I still find Clear to be within 90-95% of Utopia with only about 1/4 of price tag if bought used when compared with the new Utopia.  To be fair, if you compare with the used Utopia price to a used Clear, it is still less than 1/2 to 1/3 the cost.  As always, please consider my opinions as only few grains of salt and weigh in other Headfiers' comments as well. Good luck!


----------



## skhan007

go_vtec said:


> This is slightly off topic, but I am trying to share my personal experience with Utopia and benefit of RME as one of its use cases to justify putting a reply in this thread.
> 
> @skhan007 Utopia is a fine headphone which is probably is one the very best open dynamic headphones in the world.  It has an excellent build quality as a flagship.  However, it is not without any flaws just like all other headphones. To my ears, it has a couple of peaks in mid range areas where they can add bit of life-like presence, but it can also be a border line harsh on certain aggressively mixed metal/rock/live jazz musics.  It's treble has some uneven peaks to bring more air and lively sound, but for some tracks, it sounds slightly unnatural to artificially harsh/aggressive for some songs.  It has a clean and tight bass, but it is not the most detailed bass and I felt it could use a little more articulation or authority for its price category.
> 
> ...


Thanks- I appreciate the thoughtful and detailed response. It's definitely something to consider, as you're correct about the Clear being some close approximation of the Utopia at a fraction of the cost. That extra 5-10% translates to a couple of grand. I think the wise thing is for me to continue to think it over and maybe investigate a couple of other models, like the Senn HD820, which from the description, sound like something I could be quite happy with at a much more palatable price point. My impulsive self wants to jump in the car and go back to the hifi shop, but that's such a large purchase and I think I might feel like a first-class jackass if I don't research this a bit more and perhaps even consider a used set for much less.


----------



## skhan007 (Mar 7, 2021)

Bazaar said:


> I do think the HD820 highs are good, strong and not too 'harsh'. Straight out of the RME, the lows are pretty strong, a little 'boomier' than the 800S, but also a little muddier. But even at this default flat level, I preferred the 820 over the 800S.
> 
> However, I've tuned the RME PEQ based on the Oratory1990 settings and it's tempered the bass a little, so it's much clearer to me. I did boost the bass a bit from those settings for my personal preference (I'm hardly a bass-head, can't listen to (too) heavy bass w/out getting a headache).
> 
> Still going back-and-forth w/ the HD800S, but I am leaning towards keeping the 820.


Thanks- I'm seriously thinking Sennheiser HD800s or HD820 if I don't go with the Utopia. I really believe I'd be happy, as I used to own the HD800 and know the Senn quality and sound signature. The updates to the HD800s and HD820 sound perfect. Just different flavors of perfect. I'm leaning towards the HD800s, as I like the open-back config. Question: How does the ADI-2 perform in driving the 300 Ohm Sennheiser's? The manual is quite confident about high power mode and ease in running higher impedance headphones. Also, listening to Stormwatch 40th anniversary remix this morning!


----------



## dougq

Man I got hint of this Dac / Amp from somewhere and after reading the manual I was sold.  I had recently purchased a bifrost 2 to go with my asgard 3.  It sounds great, but it sounds identical to my modi 3.  That really got me thinking I'm not really changing anything changing amp / dac's.  Then seeing all the options and configurations you can do to adapt the sound to how you want, plus class leading dac and powerful amp.  The space I'll be saving will be nice.. the asgard 3 / bifrost 2 stack is a bit much going on...

Oh and the visualizer and knob.


----------



## Bazaar

skhan007 said:


> Thanks- I'm seriously thinking Sennheiser HD800s or HD820 if I don't go with the Utopia. I really believe I'd be happy, as I used to own the HD800 and know the Senn quality and sound signature. The updates to the HD800s and HD820 sound perfect. Just different flavors of perfect. I'm leaning towards the HD800s, as I like the open-back config. Question: How does the ADI-2 perform in driving the 300 Ohm Sennheiser's? The manual is quite confident about high power mode and ease in running higher impedance headphones. Also, listening to Stormwatch 40th anniversary remix this morning!


Ahhhhh, I should qualify my comment was listening through the Burson! I will take a listen through the RME. I did listen to the 660S through the RME, and they sounded great.

that's a great release, especially the concert; Steven Wilson has done a stellar job w/ all the remasters.


----------



## skhan007

Bazaar said:


> Ahhhhh, I should qualify my comment was listening through the Burson! I will take a listen through the RME. I did listen to the 660S through the RME, and they sounded great.
> 
> that's a great release, especially the concert; Steven Wilson has done a stellar job w/ all the remasters.


Great- I’ll look forward to your impressions, when time permits. In my readings (using the search function to find HD800S threads), a common criticism is thin/lacking bass frequencies. I suspect this isn’t so much an issue with all the stellar EQ options on the ADI-2. I remember the really nice and wide soundstage on my old HD800, which a lot of guys state is still present on the newer models. Lastly, Steven Wilson is like a mad scientist on those remixed classics.


----------



## Verificateur

Could anyone please share if it’s possible to:

1. Listen through two headphones simultaneously to the same music (one through the 6.3mm output and one through the 3.5mm output)?

2. If yes to #1, is it possible to adjust the volume independently of the two outputs? (e.g. if I want to volume-match two outputs  playing through different headphones with different impedance).

If #2 is not possible, off topic - does anyone know of a similar device that allows simultaneous playback of the same source with the ability to volume-match?

cheers!


----------



## Bazaar

skhan007 said:


> Great- I’ll look forward to your impressions, when time permits. In my readings (using the search function to find HD800S threads), a common criticism is thin/lacking bass frequencies. I suspect this isn’t so much an issue with all the stellar EQ options on the ADI-2. I remember the really nice and wide soundstage on my old HD800, which a lot of guys state is still present on the newer models. Lastly, Steven Wilson is like a mad scientist on those remixed classics.


So I listened to both tonight, on the 6.3. For me, the RME could definitely provide enough oomph for the 800S; I had it on -15dB (AutoRef=On, +13dBu). 

Flat, there was too much bass, it was a little 'foggy', which is how I recall it from listening on the Burson without EQ. I applied the EQ profile (from Oratory1900) and it brought down the bass nicely, so still very pleasant to listen to the 800S on either the RME or Burson.

A good podcast with Steven Wilson (little on his new album, but a lot more on his remastering work, incl. the Tull catalog).


----------



## skhan007

Bazaar said:


> So I listened to both tonight, on the 6.3. For me, the RME could definitely provide enough oomph for the 800S; I had it on -15dB (AutoRef=On, +13dBu).
> 
> Flat, there was too much bass, it was a little 'foggy', which is how I recall it from listening on the Burson without EQ. I applied the EQ profile (from Oratory1900) and it brought down the bass nicely, so still very pleasant to listen to the 800S on either the RME or Burson.
> 
> A good podcast with Steven Wilson (little on his new album, but a lot more on his remastering work, incl. the Tull catalog).


Excellent - thanks for confirming! Sounds like the HD800s should be a good contender, not to mention a more cost-friendly one. Glad to know the ADI-2 was up to the task. I did check out the oratory1900 pdf. Does one simply look at the table on the bottom left and dial in the EQ values on the ADI-2? Should be fun to experiment.

Thanks for the podcast tip. I’ll definitely check it out.


----------



## Bazaar (Mar 8, 2021)

Well, sort of  I'm finding some of the nuances of converting to the PEQ (5-band). Recall this post I made earlier for you, I need to confirm my 'interpretations' of the settings, prob do it here in a bit.

Note that many of the 'pundits' say you HAVE to have a more powerful amp (which is what lead me to the Burson, initially, over the iFi setup). And many of the same pundits also say you HAVE to have a tube amp to properly drive the 820/800.

Def suggest giving it a try for your own experience, place w/ a good return policy (or buy mine )


----------



## skhan007

Bazaar said:


> Well, sort of  I'm finding some of the nuances of converting to the PEQ (5-band). Recall this post I made earlier for you, I need to confirm my 'interpretations' of the settings, prob do it here in a bit.
> 
> Note that many of the 'pundits' say you HAVE to have a more powerful amp (which is what lead me to the Burson, initially, over the iFi setup). And many of the same pundits also say you HAVE to have a tube amp to properly drive the 820/800.
> 
> Def suggest giving it a try for your own experience, place w/ a good return policy (or buy mine )


Yes!! I've got to dig into some of those threads. Especially the one on how to EQ for non-professionals. Great stuff and sincere thanks for taking the time for listing all those links. Also, I should definitely follow up with you if you're thinking about selling your HD800s. Currently researching if any shops in my local area have a set I can listen to with my DAC.


----------



## ThEvil0nE

I use the pro version and the fs as a stand-alone on my desktop.
I do believe the majority who own the ADI-2  is because:
1. it’s an RME product. If you know or are in pro audio then you’ll know the company’s reputation.
2. the EQ and other sound customization  features.


----------



## Slaphead

ThEvil0nE said:


> I use the pro version and the fs as a stand-alone on my desktop.
> I do believe the majority who own the ADI-2  is because:
> 1. it’s an RME product. If you know or are in pro audio then you’ll know the company’s reputation.
> 2. the EQ and other sound customization  features.


I'm in group 1.

As for group 2, there's no denying the flexibility of the of EQ and other sound customisation options, but they're ultimately there to enable room correction for a studio using professional monitors. A set once affair, if you like. If I need EQ on the fly for listening via headphones I'll use a good EQ plugin - it's far faster to dial in a sound I want with a mouse rather than having to do this via the RME ADI 2 EQ interface.


----------



## skhan007

Ok, I’m going to be auditioning some headphones this weekend with my ADI-2 and some Prog rock (and probably some classical tracks). Here’s the list. Let me know if any are preferred by you, based on your experience:

Meze Empyrean 
Audeze LCD-3, 4, & XC
Dan Clark Ether 2, Aeon 2 closed
ZMF Atticus, Auteur, and one older model (don’t know which)

I’m also quite smitten with the Focal Utopia I heard a few days ago and the HD800S, which I think (correct me if I’m wrong, I haven’t heard them yet) is a match for the Style of music I referenced.


----------



## betula

skhan007 said:


> Ok, I’m going to be auditioning some headphones this weekend with my ADI-2 and some Prog rock (and probably some classical tracks). Here’s the list. Let me know if any are preferred by you, based on your experience:
> 
> Meze Empyrean
> Audeze LCD-3, 4, & XC
> ...


I love my ADI2, but it might not drive some of the headphones you listed to their full potential without an external amp. Especially the LCD4. Also ZMF headphones prefer tubes.
I listen to a lot of ambient music (Carbon Based Lifeform, Vibrasphere kind of stuff) so one of my main priorities is a clean, deep and dynamic bass. 
Knowing this my personal preference list of the headphones you mentioned would be: (all driven to their best)
LCD4 = Empyrean, LCD3, XC, Auteur, Ether2, Atticus, Aeon 2cl. 
It is worth noting, the LCD4 is super heavy. So is the XC. (700g+). The LCD3 is more manageable in that regard. I used to own the Empyrean and absolutely loved them. I never really got on with Dan's headphones. I think there are better sounding alternatives for the price. At least for me. 
Also, while I find ZMF sound truly beautiful (especially for vocals and acoustic instruments) my personal preference is a visceral planar bass which dynamic drivers just can't provide.
If possible I would also avoid closed back headphones which takes two headphones down from your list. Open back will always sound better, in case you don't need isolation. (Instead of the XC the X could be an option. It is also very well driven straight out of the ADI2.)


----------



## gimmeheadroom

skhan007 said:


> Ok, I’m going to be auditioning some headphones this weekend with my ADI-2 and some Prog rock (and probably some classical tracks). Here’s the list. Let me know if any are preferred by you, based on your experience:
> 
> Meze Empyrean
> Audeze LCD-3, 4, & XC
> ...


LCD-2C and 3 are great and very good out of the RME respectively
Have not heard the ZMF but I would not expect they will be optimal out of the RME and I know the HD 800(S) is not.


----------



## skhan007

gimmeheadroom said:


> LCD-2C and 3 are great and very good out of the RME respectively
> Have not heard the ZMF but I would not expect they will be optimal out of the RME and I know the HD 800(S) is not.


Your last sentence has piqued my curiosity! Are you saying that the HD800S will not be optimal with the ADI-2 because of the 300 Ohm impedance, perhaps? I too was curious about this and had asked a forum member who owns both this question. He stated the ADI-2 drove the HD800S very well. The manual states that high power mode is available for high impedance headphones, as well. Please let me know your thoughts, as I was thinking the HD800S was indeed a match for the ADI-2, as well as my listening preferences. 

Speaking of the HD800 and HD800S- Curious if the former can be EQ'd to sound like the latter? I'm hearing mixed feedback on how people like/don't like the HD800/800S with EQ. This seems to be a very polarizing model.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Mar 11, 2021)

skhan007 said:


> Your last sentence has piqued my curiosity! Are you saying that the HD800S will not be optimal with the ADI-2 because of the 300 Ohm impedance, perhaps? I too was curious about this and had asked a forum member who owns both this question. He stated the ADI-2 drove the HD800S very well. The manual states that high power mode is available for high impedance headphones, as well. Please let me know your thoughts, as I was thinking the HD800S was indeed a match for the ADI-2, as well as my listening preferences.
> 
> Speaking of the HD800 and HD800S- Curious if the former can be EQ'd to sound like the latter? I'm hearing mixed feedback on how people like/don't like the HD800/800S with EQ. This seems to be a very polarizing model.


I think whenever somebody says the RME drives the HD 800/S or any other high impedance dynamic well we should understand what he has compared it to. In my opinion and experience there is plenty more to be gained with a good amp. I didn't buy the RME for the amp and I'm ok with the fact that you don't get a do it all headamp in a paperback book sized box. The RME does not have enough voltage for 300 ohm Sennheisers. High power mode doesn't change that, I run mine on high power at all times, it's not something worth switching off and on.

It is certainly related to the high impedance but it's not only impedance. It's the fact these Sennheisers love voltage. An amp like Violectric 280/281 that swings 60V can bring out the best. Even a Corda Jazz-ff which is not expensive does a superb job, it swings 15V. Once you get below 15V you can start to hear the difference.

Yes, I realize people will post many mathematical proofs that 300 ohm Sennheisers can deafen you and catch fire with only a few milliwatts. No, that doesn't change the reality we have seen about what makes Sennheisers sing.

I haven't heard the S so I can't answer the question. If you're asking if the treble peak can be dealt with by the RME's EQ then the answer is yes, absolutely. I don't listen to my 800s (not S) out of the RME but when I checked, I found it was easy to make the harshness disappear with no harmful artifacts. In my opinion the 800s are fine with a lot of music and no EQ at all. I'm in the camp that believes in not using EQ unless necessary. So Joni Mitchell out of a pair of 800s need EQ, symphony orchestras, big bands etc. do not.


----------



## skhan007

gugges said:


> I can’t say it enough, the ZMF headphones kill it for rock. Such natural tones and euphony in the sound. Guitars, vocals and drums all really shine


I visited a local hifi shop and auditioned seven really great headphones. You absolutely nailed it with your recommendation. I will post my detailed adventure in a bit, when time permits, but you sir were 100% correct!


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## gugges

skhan007 said:


> I visited a local hifi shop and auditioned seven really great headphones. You absolutely nailed it with your recommendation. I will post my detailed adventure in a bit, when time permits, but you sir were 100% correct!


Amazing!! Looking forward to hearing your impressions


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## Matias

Here are my impressions of the iPower X versus regular iPower with the RME ADI-2 DAC fs:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-ipower-x-the-official-thread.926656/post-16236813


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## skhan007 (Mar 13, 2021)

I had a great time today, going to a local hifi shop here in the DC area, called Urban HiFi which is also where Linear Tube Amplification builds their stellar amps. Great shop, great guys. They were kind enough to give me an appointment outside of business hours so I could test drive some nice headphones. They keep a good collection of headphones on-hand for the purpose of demoing their tube amps. They're not a dealer for these headphones, to the best of my knowledge.

I took my MacBook loaded with ALAC, FLAC, and DSD files, and my new ADI-2. I've only auditioned maybe about a dozen headphones total and owned only one audiophile-grade set (HD800). Here are the ones I auditioned today with a few comments on each. Since I'm relatively new at the hobby, I don't have all the lingo, adjectives, and descriptors down, so my impressions here are brief and to the point:

Meze Empyrean- Very, very comfortable. Pretty good separation of instruments/decent soundstage. Very pronounced bass. In fact, I'd call it bass-heavy with no EQ. Mids and highs were very good.

Audeze LCD-4- Stunningly nice, very brilliant sounding. Great sound stage. Very nice frequency response across the board. Great low-end that's really nicely defined. However, it felt like I was wearing an elephant on my head. I think they were too heavy, which many others have stated. Still, in terms of sound and presentation, towards the top of this group of headphones. If only they were 46 lbs. lighter.

Audeze LCD-3- Big bass response, but I felt not that great in the highs. Mids were pretty good. I played around with some EQ and it sounded pretty good. Tighter sound stage. Also, uncomfortably heavy.

Audeze LCD-XC- Focused sounding, tighter sound stage, pretty balanced across low, mid, and highs. Overall, I'm not sure that I'm a closed-back headphone guy. These didn't have the air/space as the open-backs I've played and owned. Pretty good, though.

DCA Ether 2- Very comfortable, really nice pronounced bass that was clear and tight. Mid and highs were good. I thought the sound stage was more closed than some of the others here. This one was kind of middle of the pack in the bunch that I auditioned today.

ZMF Auteur- Upon first listen, I noted how hugely spacious they sounded. Big sound stage, nice separation. Warm lows, musical balanced mid, crystal clear highs that were not peaky or fatiguing. Lush sounding. Just brilliant across the frequency range. Super comfortable.

ZMF Atticus- Similar to the above, but more closed sounding, tighter sound stage, and more bass than the above. Mid and highs were nice. Comfortable like the above.

I was rotating through these headphones for a couple of hours and listening to tracks that I knew very well, taking notes, noting pluses/minuses and overall impressions. I narrowed it down to the Meze Empyrean, ZMF Auteur, and LCD-4. I kept going back and forth with these and it didn't take long to declare the winner- It was the ZMF Auteur.

I was listening to Rush, for example, and I swear I could hear the calluses on Geddy Lee's fingers. The percussion was so dynamic. Acoustic guitars sounded like they were right in front of me. Chills. I don't know if you guys have had that experience with headphones, but I got chills. The range and delivery of all the sounds was just spectacular. I don't have the vocabulary in audiophile terms, but it was so real, spacious, and natural. I was so floored by these headphones and my salesman called the shop owner to ask if he'd let me buy the demo, which thankfully he approved. So I bought them! Beautiful Teak, nice case, nice cable, and man I am so happy. I had auditioned the Focal Utopia at a different shop last week and I just don't think I could justify the cost and sleep at night. The ZMF Auteur has made me a happy camper at a price where I can sleep at night.

Lastly, the ADI-2 has no problem at all driving these 300 Ohm headphones. In high power mode, it does very well with these headphones.


----------



## Bazaar

skhan007 said:


> I was listening to Rush, for example, and I swear I could hear the calluses on Geddy Lee's fingers.


 great description


skhan007 said:


> Lastly, the ADI-2 has no problem at all driving these 300 Ohm headphones. In high power mode, it does very well with these headphones.


kind of my thoughts, happy you were able to find a set that you like!  Of course, now you've given me another set to research


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## gugges

skhan007 said:


> ZMF Auteur- Upon first listen, I noted how hugely spacious they sounded. Big sound stage, nice separation. Warm lows, musical balanced mid, crystal clear highs that were not peaky or fatiguing. Lush sounding. Just brilliant across the frequency range. Super comfortable.


Yes!! ZMF's true secret is just how non fatiguing and realistic they sound. Very well tuned and musical. And you got it right, they are so comfortable. Your pair should have come with one spare set of ear pads and I suggest listening to the main ones for a week then swap them for the backup. The sound can change a lot between the pads and on my VCs I enjoy each set in their own way. ZMF's Youtube page has a tutorial for how to change the earpads that I definitely recommend watching before you swap 'em.


----------



## skhan007

gugges said:


> Yes!! ZMF's true secret is just how non fatiguing and realistic they sound. Very well tuned and musical. And you got it right, they are so comfortable. Your pair should have come with one spare set of ear pads and I suggest listening to the main ones for a week then swap them for the backup. The sound can change a lot between the pads and on my VCs I enjoy each set in their own way. ZMF's Youtube page has a tutorial for how to change the earpads that I definitely recommend watching before you swap 'em.


Thanks for the tips on the ear pads and an even bigger thank you for recommending and making me aware of ZMF. With so many brands/models on Head-Fi, getting some specific guidance is greatly appreciated. Well, my set was a demo set and there were no additional pads or owner's card. The price was adjusted accordingly, as all I got was the case and cable with the headphones (I don't even know if it's the stock cable). The pads that I have on the headphones are the perforated leather/lambskin, I believe. If you were to recommend another set of pads for me to purchase, what would you suggest?


----------



## acguitar84

My RME DAC has been getting lots of compliments out at my office! Before, I had a Yggdrasil and Jotunheim feeding my Focal Solo 6be speakers and nobody really said anything about, wow this is a good sound, or anything complimentary really. 

Now, I'm just using the RME alone, no preamp, just feeding the speakers directly from it. I've heard lots of good compliments now. In fact today, one of my students was like, gosh those are great sounding speakers. And they are, but I had to smile, taking the RME out there and using it was a great idea!!


----------



## betula

skhan007 said:


> I had a great time today, going to a local hifi shop here in the DC area, called Urban HiFi which is also where Linear Tube Amplification builds their stellar amps. Great shop, great guys. They were kind enough to give me an appointment outside of business hours so I could test drive some nice headphones. They keep a good collection of headphones on-hand for the purpose of demoing their tube amps. They're not a dealer for these headphones, to the best of my knowledge.
> 
> I took my MacBook loaded with ALAC, FLAC, and DSD files, and my new ADI-2. I've only auditioned maybe about a dozen headphones total and owned only one audiophile-grade set (HD800). Here are the ones I auditioned today with a few comments on each. Since I'm relatively new at the hobby, I don't have all the lingo, adjectives, and descriptors down, so my impressions here are brief and to the point:
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing, it is always good to read other's impressions on different headphones. Great choice there with the Auteur and quite likely a good deal. I would love to hear your thoughts on the Verité one day. Enjoy your new ZMF, they are truly exceptional in creating a lifelike timbre of acoustic instruments and organic vocals.


----------



## sabloke

I have been using Audirvana for years now and today started playing with Roon. I am really impressed with its functionality, sound and stability so far.  Plays really nice with ADI-2 and Burson Soloist 3XP amp!


----------



## betula

sabloke said:


> I have been using Audirvana for years now and today started playing with Roon. I am really impressed with its functionality, sound and stability so far.  Plays really nice with ADI-2 and Burson Soloist 3XP amp!


I am getting the same amp for my ADI2 in a couple of days. From the description it should sound exactly what I am looking for (spacious, clean, dynamic and powerful but at the same time natural and never fatiguing). I am quite excited.


----------



## sabloke

betula said:


> I am getting the same amp for my ADI2 in a couple of days. From the description it should sound exactly what I am looking for (spacious, clean, dynamic and powerful but at the same time natural and never fatiguing). I am quite excited.


When you do, put the Soloist in headphone amp mode to bypass volume control *when in HP output, press menu button for 12 seconds) and then play something on the ADI-2, pause, unplug and then plug into the headphone amp, press play. Go back and forth a few times playing something that you (thought!) you know well. You will be amazed, guaranteed! 

By the way, the Soloist does wonders with my Focal Shape 65 active monitors, too. Love this thing!

I am pumped, getting the 4.4mm to XLR plug tomorrow so running balanced will be available for my MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R.


----------



## Marutks

sabloke said:


> I have been using Audirvana for years now and today started playing with Roon.



I switched to Roon too.   Audirvana can't play DSD 256 on Mac and the UI is buggy.  It is not native Mac app.


----------



## skhan007

sabloke said:


> When you do, put the Soloist in headphone amp mode to bypass volume control *when in HP output, press menu button for 12 seconds) and then play something on the ADI-2, pause, unplug and then plug into the headphone amp, press play. Go back and forth a few times playing something that you (thought!) you know well. You will be amazed, guaranteed!
> 
> By the way, the Soloist does wonders with my Focal Shape 65 active monitors, too. Love this thing!
> 
> I am pumped, getting the 4.4mm to XLR plug tomorrow so running balanced will be available for my MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R.


You've piqued my curiosity. I've read great things about the Burson Soloist and I believe I'm in the state of 'not knowing what I'm missing.' I've only recently acquired my ADI-2 and two days ago, purchased my ZMF 300 Ohm headphones. The ADI-2 drives these just fine in high power mode. Bass is full and extended, highs are crisp and present, midrange is smooth- Just sounding great across the frequency range. It makes me wonder if I'm good just using the headphone out on the ADI-2 is where I should stay or will I note an appreciable, noteworthy, and justifiable improvement with a dedicated headphone amp, such as the Soloist?

This brings up the question: How many ADI-2 owners use their unit as their headphone amp vs. how many use a separate dedicated headphone amp?


----------



## betula

(There is quite a difference between the older Burson Soloist amps and the new Soloist 3X. I just thought I make it 100% clear for everyone which amp we were talking about.)


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## Marutks

skhan007 said:


> You've piqued my curiosity. I've read great things about the Burson Soloist and I believe I'm in the state of 'not knowing what I'm missing.' I've only recently acquired my ADI-2 and two days ago, purchased my ZMF 300 Ohm headphones.



I mostly use tube amps with my ZMF headphones ( and  ADI-2 as a DAC only ).


----------



## Bazaar

skhan007 said:


> You've piqued my curiosity. I've read great things about the Burson Soloist and I believe I'm in the state of 'not knowing what I'm missing.' I've only recently acquired my ADI-2 and two days ago, purchased my ZMF 300 Ohm headphones. The ADI-2 drives these just fine in high power mode. Bass is full and extended, highs are crisp and present, midrange is smooth- Just sounding great across the frequency range. It makes me wonder if I'm good just using the headphone out on the ADI-2 is where I should stay or will I note an appreciable, noteworthy, and justifiable improvement with a dedicated headphone amp, such as the Soloist?
> 
> This brings up the question: How many ADI-2 owners use their unit as their headphone amp vs. how many use a separate dedicated headphone amp?


That's exactly my config - Although the ADI-2 has sufficient power to drive the 800S/820, I had bought the Burson when I was using my iFi as my DAC and needed the extra ooomph. I'm continuing to use that setup (might be a little 'warmer' due to the Sparkos in the Burson) but I was definitely questioning it after I tested the headphones for you on just the ADI-2.


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## skhan007

Bazaar said:


> That's exactly my config - Although the ADI-2 has sufficient power to drive the 800S/820, I had bought the Burson when I was using my iFi as my DAC and needed the extra ooomph. I'm continuing to use that setup (might be a little 'warmer' due to the Sparkos in the Burson) but I was definitely questioning it after I tested the headphones for you on just the ADI-2.


Got it- So when you say you were questioning it, do you mean the sound difference between the ADI-2 headphone out vs. ADI-2 plus Burnson?


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## Bazaar

More like do I really need the Burson?  If the ADI-2 was able to sufficiently power the 800S/820, then I could take that $$$ and use it elsewhere.


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## skhan007

Glad to know I'm not alone on this. Perhaps I need to trust my ears more vs. believing that additional gear is "required." I know that nobody is actually telling me this, but rather it's an internal thought/feeling. 

When I was at the HiFi shop, I was doing some A/B testing between the ADI-2 headphone out vs. running it into different tube amps. This HiFi shop builds their own brand of tube amp, called MicroZOTL, which are beautiful and incredibly nice sounding tube amps. While they sounded excellent to my ears, I could not really note an appreciable difference between the ADI-2 and the tube amp. I know, this must sound nuts. Both drove the headphones just fine and if anything, I noted more low-end presence on the tube amp (which I could also get with the ADI-2 with slight EQ adjustment). I have been asking myself: Is it possible to have the ADI-2 and my ZMF headphones as a satisfactory or even endgame set up?? That goes against everything I'm reading on Head-Fi!! Sounds too simplistic and I didn't spend enough money!


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## Bazaar

I've also seen absolute statements like 'you *must *use a tube amp to really appreciate the 8XX cans'. I'm sure there's merit to some people really liking/preferring a tube amp compared to what they're accustomed to, but ultimately, it's YOUR ears that will make that final determination. And your money


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## skhan007

I couldn't agree more. Maybe if there are some head-fi meets later this year, public health topics permitting, I can take my headphones and ADI-2 and test drive some amps to hear for myself. I'm certainly not shy about some of the amps mentioned/recommended, in terms of pricing, but I need my ears convinced above all else!


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## captblaze

Bazaar said:


> I've also seen absolute statements like 'you *must *use a tube amp to really appreciate the 8XX cans'. I'm sure there's merit to some people really liking/preferring a tube amp compared to what they're accustomed to, but ultimately, it's YOUR ears that will make that final determination. And your money


you need an amp that can swing enough voltage to handle the resistance whether that be tube amp or SS. some prefer the distortion of tubes others prefer the sterile nature of SS. either type can drive Senns and still have enough in reserve when necessary


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## go_vtec (Mar 15, 2021)

Bazaar said:


> More like do I really need the Burson?  If the ADI-2 was able to sufficiently power the 800S/820, then I could take that $$$ and use it elsewhere.


This is also for @skhan007.  As a disclaimer, not everyone in the forum shares same views for DACs and AMPs.  Most of folks believe having a good DAC is important and some put even greater emphasis on an amp is more important than the DAC.  There are also groups of folks who believe & argue that DACs don't make any differences (unless it is not functioning properly) and amps make some differences but not so much.

However, no one disputes that DACs and AMPs can measure differently as you can see from the published specs.  What really matter to you should be that can you really hear the differences and what is the differences worth to you so that you are willing to buy and pay?  This is really important to this hobby and only you can answer the question.

Many folks try to share their own experiences and some may even force their inputs on others because they are so passionate about this hobby and sometimes royal to their own opinions/products they own.  If you spend some time here on Head-fi, you will need to understand who is providing you such inputs and weigh you options as few grains of salt.  As an extreme example, you wouldn't watch just one TV channel, say FOX or CNN, to get 100% politically neutral opinions on current issues & politics without actually knowing each one of these news channel has "slightly" more flavoring to the specific political party.  You will need to get additional inputs from other more neutral information sources to weigh in your final decisions on specific issues.  Now, having said that, ADI-2 has a fairly good amp but majority of the folks here won't use its built-in amp.  Now, YMMV as I put a long disclaimer and you will also need to use your judgement as my inputs as only few gains of salt.

Many here will have one or more than one dedicated amp(s) to take the balanced or RCA outputs as a dedicate amp(s)/preamp(s) for headphone/speaker use.  Anyone who can actually afford $1200 DACs, can also "should be able to" afford an amp(s) costing few hundreds to few thousands. There are many "affordable" solid state amp, again relatively affordable if you can afford $1200 ADI-2, such as THX-789, which can be had for just over a couple of hundred of dollars.  Some entry-level OTL tube amps can be had for few hundreds as well.  When you spend several hundreds to few thousands in an amp, you are paying for the even better specs, spare headroom, certain features, materials, design philosophy, and exclusive ownership.  Some additional benefit may be you "could" be prolonging a life of your DAC/amp since you are put less stress in theory on the some internal circuitry of the DAC/amp, such as your ADI-2. 

Now, getting back to the original question, yes, you can take the $$$ and put it somewhere you see the real values.  Some amps can be slightly more transparent and some adds more headroom so that it can handle just about any headphones out there.  I have many headphones including an Audeze LCD-4 which is a pain the the a** to drive properly and ADI-2 does not sufficiently power it.  At least that is my excuse to my wife so that I can buy many more amps and other gears.  In my use cases, I currently have a fairly powerful solid-state balanced amp and a good SE tube amp (connected to the SE RCA outputs) to power up my headphones.   For the full disclosure, I too have few more balanced DACs, that have a solid-state amp and tube amp pairs hooked up to them.

All of us are very subjective in our own opinions and our hearing is also very sensitive, fluctuate day to day, and susceptible to certain suggestions. For whatever it is worth IMHO, under normal to soft listening volume level, it would be hard to very hard to hear differences on ADI-2's amp vs some other dedicated headphone amps.   When you push the dynamics and volume level very high, there may be some discernible differences on some headphones on certain dedicated headphone amps.  Here, I am purposely trying to stay "vague" so that you can make your own determinations on what is worth to you.   If you have a fairly efficient low ohm headphones, upgrading to the dedicated amp may not the most cost efficient way to experience better sound.  For the three Sennheiser dynamic headphones in @Bazzar's profile, ADI-2 should be sufficient to power them at most of listening situation.  However, if you want to go with the balanced route (since two of your headphones share a same cable and you may already have an OEM balanced cable with your purchase) and/or want some additional headroom to drive these high impedance cans easily or effortlessly, you can always add some solid-state balanced amp or tube amp later.


----------



## dougq (Mar 15, 2021)

So I've been playing with mine for the last few hours which is hardly enough time to come to any conclusion.  Going back and forth to my Asgard 3 and RDI-2 with some Focal Clear Mg Pro's I do not hear any audible difference when I volume match as close as I can.  I'm not going to claim it's super scientific.  What I can tell right away though is playing around with the loudness feature is insanely awesome.  If I want to listen to my music at a more casual listening level (60-65db measured by my phone), turning Loudness on completely changes how it sounds at the default settings.  I gotta fine tune it a bit.

I gotta do some more swapping around, and I was going to test a pair of Arya's later tonight. So far though this feels like it could replace my asgard 3 easily.

Quick 5 minute take with Arya's: Thought I could hear a difference and vocals just sounded awful.  Them Crooked Vultures - New Fang.  Realized Loud was on.  The treble bump is not good in this scenario.  Turning Loudness off, and quick A/B on sections of the song I could not hear much of a difference.


----------



## Bazaar

go_vtec said:


> All of us are very subjective in our own opinions and our hearing is also very sensitive, fluctuate day to day, and susceptible to certain suggestions. For whatever it is worth IMHO, under normal to soft listening volume level, it would be hard to very hard to hear differences on ADI-2's amp vs some other dedicated headphone amps.   When you push the dynamics and volume level very high, there may be some discernible differences on some headphones on certain dedicated headphone amps.  Here, I am purposely trying to stay "vague" so that you can make your own determinations on what is worth to you.   If you have a fairly efficient low ohm headphones, upgrading to the dedicated amp may not the most cost efficient way to experience better sound.  For the three Sennheiser dynamic headphones in @Bazzar's profile, ADI-2 should be sufficient to power them at most of listening situation.  However, if you want to go with the balanced route (since two of your headphones share a same cable and you may already have an OEM balanced cable with your purchase) and/or want some additional headroom to drive these high impedance cans easily or effortlessly, you can always add some solid-state balanced amp or tube amp later.


Some solid advice, FWIW I pretty much only listen to balanced out (and only balanced into my Burson). I have done a hot swap between balanced and analog input to my Burson and prefer the balanced.

I do intend to give a tube amp a try some day to check it out for my own ears.


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## Marutks

this tube amp sounds good


----------



## Moose246

skhan007 said:


> You've piqued my curiosity. I've read great things about the Burson Soloist and I believe I'm in the state of 'not knowing what I'm missing.' I've only recently acquired my ADI-2 and two days ago, purchased my ZMF 300 Ohm headphones. The ADI-2 drives these just fine in high power mode. Bass is full and extended, highs are crisp and present, midrange is smooth- Just sounding great across the frequency range. It makes me wonder if I'm good just using the headphone out on the ADI-2 is where I should stay or will I note an appreciable, noteworthy, and justifiable improvement with a dedicated headphone amp, such as the Soloist?
> 
> This brings up the question: How many ADI-2 owners use their unit as their headphone amp vs. how many use a separate dedicated headphone amp?



I use a Drop THX AAA 789 with my ADI-2.  My main headphones are a pair of Fostex TH900 mk2's, which I listen through the THX via a Periapt balanced cable.  Sounds incredible, but dramatically better than simply with the ADI-2 alone?  Probably not.  I picked up the amp more out of curiosity since it's a relative bargain at the price point.  

Starting at post 3,945 of this board I comment on it and it draws some additional thoughts.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-thread.868015/page-263


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## dougq

Ok so for loudness, what does everyone general set for the minimum volume? Measuring your headphones decibels as a reference point.  I know the settings will be different between everyone and their headphones.  For example I bumped it down to -45dBr from the default as on my mg clear pro's produces a general volume level of 60-65db


----------



## skhan007

Bazaar said:


> Some solid advice, FWIW I pretty much only listen to balanced out (and only balanced into my Burson). I have done a hot swap between balanced and analog input to my Burson and prefer the balanced.
> 
> I do intend to give a tube amp a try some day to check it out for my own ears.


I don't know the science behind this, but I'm interested to know what difference once can observe between balanced/XLR vs single-ended/ 1/4" on their headphones. If there's a noteworthy improvement, I'm curios if this would warrant me considering a separate headphone amp that has a balanced headphone out.



dougq said:


> Ok so for loudness, what does everyone general set for the minimum volume? Measuring your headphones decibels as a reference point.  I know the settings will be different between everyone and their headphones.  For example I bumped it down to -45dBr from the default as on my mg clear pro's produces a general volume level of 60-65db


I'm listening between -35 and -40 dBr on high power mode, according to the ADI-2 screen. How did you determine the general volume level of 60-65 db? Using an external spectrum analyzer or is there a screen on the ADI-2 that gives this info?


----------



## dougq

skhan007 said:


> I don't know the science behind this, but I'm interested to know what difference once can observe between balanced/XLR vs single-ended/ 1/4" on their headphones. If there's a noteworthy improvement, I'm curios if this would warrant me considering a separate headphone amp that has a balanced headphone out.
> 
> 
> I'm listening between -35 and -40 dBr on high power mode, according to the ADI-2 screen. How did you determine the general volume level of 60-65 db? Using an external spectrum analyzer or is there a screen on the ADI-2 that gives this info?


I do not have any official great measuring tool.  I check with my cell phone and my watch and compare to the listening levels I get out of my airpod pro's through the iphone's internal measuring tools.  That gives me close to a baseline of a low listening volume level.


----------



## greyscale75

Marutks said:


> I switched to Roon too.   Audirvana can't play DSD 256 on Mac and the UI is buggy.  It is not native Mac app.


Audirvana is FIRST a MAC app. Then came the Wondoz ver. For DSD, HQPlayer is the app to try.


----------



## skhan007

Cevisi said:


> I ordered this headphone stand. The bottom fits perfect under the rme adi 2 and it looks like 1 unit . Very clean and space saving. It was a bit short i had to space it with some spacers at the back. I wanted to share this idea with you maybe some one like it and want to do the same
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07KWV2GW2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_DZWVBHCGRFXWYKQHM573?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Took your recommendation and bought the same stand and spacers! It's the endgame set up.


----------



## arn

Slaphead said:


> Just 16/44. There's no benefit from a listener's perspective to bother with going higher. The only reason higher resolution is needed is because it is used in studios is to minimise the quantisation distortion of mixing channels and applying effects. Honestly 768 kHz could produce a frequency about 3 times higher than a bat can hear, and a bat can hear around 110 kHz at max.


That 768 kHz is the maximum *sampling* frequency, not playback frequency.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Bazaar said:


> I've also seen absolute statements like 'you *must *use a tube amp to really appreciate the 8XX cans'. I'm sure there's merit to some people really liking/preferring a tube amp compared to what they're accustomed to, but ultimately, it's YOUR ears that will make that final determination. And your money


That's only if you have a basis for comparison. To say the RME drives headphones X well, when both the RME is new to the person saying that, and the headphones are new to the person saying that, is not worth very much. That person can say he likes it and they sound great and nobody can argue with that at all.

But to make an absolute statement like "the ADI-2 has no problem at all driving these 300 Ohm headphones. In high power mode, it does very well with these headphones." in a vacuum without having listened to those headphones out of the amps people claim you must use is just misleading to people who read that. First we read that guy had one pair of audiophile headphones and not much experience. Then a couple days later we read a broad proclamation about what does or doesn't work well. What's wrong with this picture?

I'm not attributing these quotes to you but I am responding to your implication that those opinions you did quote that you can make an informed decision in the absence of experience. This kind of assertion does not help people reading the thread.


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## sabloke

Totally agree, don't listen to anyone when it comes to sound, trust only your ears. Any proclamation for or against using an amp with ADI-2 is useless IMO.

ADI-2 sounds darn good by itself but for me, paired with Burson's new headamp, it sounds even better. I quickly got to this conclusion after doing some A/B listening, nothing scientific. This might not be the case for others using different headphones, a different amp or even having a different musical taste. My advice is borrow a headamp or go to your local audio gear supplier with the DAC and have a listen or two, then decide if you're happy with what you've got or it would worth spending for more power.


----------



## skhan007

gimmeheadroom said:


> That's only if you have a basis for comparison. To say the RME drives headphones X well, when both the RME is new to the person saying that, and the headphones are new to the person saying that, is not worth very much. That person can say he likes it and they sound great and nobody can argue with that at all.
> 
> But to make an absolute statement like "the ADI-2 has no problem at all driving these 300 Ohm headphones. In high power mode, it does very well with these headphones." in a vacuum without having listened to those headphones out of the amps people claim you must use is just misleading to people who read that. First we read that guy had one pair of audiophile headphones and not much experience. Then a couple days later we read a broad proclamation about what does or doesn't work well. What's wrong with this picture?
> 
> I'm not attributing these quotes to you but I am responding to your implication that those opinions you did quote that you can make an informed decision in the absence of experience. This kind of assertion does not help people reading the thread.


Wow, I'm at a loss. Yes, we all know who you're attributing these quotes to. I guess this is the kind of thing the new guy must endure and get used to. Moving forward, I'll make sure to not make absolute statements based on my experience, as clearly, that's not helping people reading this thread.

I'll venture a guess that it was not your intention to be completing deflating and discouraging, but mission accomplished, good sir. I will move along.


----------



## skhan007 (Mar 17, 2021)

sabloke said:


> Totally agree, don't listen to anyone when it comes to sound, trust only your ears. Any proclamation for or against using an amp with ADI-2 is useless IMO.
> 
> ADI-2 sounds darn good by itself but for me, paired with Burson's new headamp, it sounds even better. I quickly got to this conclusion after doing some A/B listening, nothing scientific. This might not be the case for others using different headphones, a different amp or even having a different musical taste. My advice is borrow a headamp or go to your local audio gear supplier with the DAC and have a listen or two, then decide if you're happy with what you've got or it would worth spending for more power.


Thank you for your kindly worded and constructive response. I appreciate your feedback and find this helpful.

I was able to take my RME To a local hi-fi shop and listen to two different headphone amps. While I was able to note a larger bass response with both, I did not find it dramatically different from the headphone output of my DAC. In addition, I have been corresponding with one of the kind members here about his Burnson soloist. These are all things I have on my list to explore.


----------



## Wladimir

Now something useful, shall we? 

There's a new firmware for our beloved ADI-2's. Changelog says: "ADI-2 DAC FGA 35, ADI-2 Pro FPGA 249: Improved SteadyClock, filter and phase control. SteadyClock’s jitter filter now operates down to 1 Hz instead of about 200 Hz, thus reduces even very low frequency input jitter efficiently."

RME's link to downloads: https://rme-audio.de/downloads.html
Direct link to firmware: https://rme-audio.de/downloads/fut_madiface_win.zip
Happy flashing


----------



## betula

Wladimir said:


> Now something useful, shall we?
> 
> There's a new firmware for our beloved ADI-2's. Changelog says: "ADI-2 DAC FGA 35, ADI-2 Pro FPGA 249: Improved SteadyClock, filter and phase control. SteadyClock’s jitter filter now operates down to 1 Hz instead of about 200 Hz, thus reduces even very low frequency input jitter efficiently."
> 
> ...


Never flashed quicker. Is this placebo or I can really hear a little improvement in clarity?


----------



## Dogmatrix

skhan007 said:


> Wow, I'm at a loss. Yes, we all know who you're attributing these quotes to. I guess this is the kind of thing the new guy must endure and get used to. Moving forward, I'll make sure to not make absolute statements based on my experience, as clearly, that's not helping people reading this thread.
> 
> I'll venture a guess that it was not your intention to be completing deflating and discouraging, but mission accomplished, good sir. I will move along.


I value all contributions to this thread and forum generally . Since we have no way of verifying anyone's qualification I regard all statements as a matter of opinion .
I find the notion some have that all statements should be deliberately ambiguous or prefaced with "in my humble opinion" quite absurd .


----------



## Noobzilla

Checked the manual but can't find info. Does anyone know if 5v on the USB cable is needed or can I use just signal/data? I am shopping for USB cables for my final testing (by that I mean I can't think of anything else I can A/B test in my system and I am most skeptical about USB cables making difference in audio quality). I will try USB Disruptor too.


----------



## Noobzilla

betula said:


> Never flashed quicker. Is this placebo or I can really hear a little improvement in clarity?


Just flashed mine from v .27 to .34. I'm also questioning if I'm hearing improvement or just placebo


----------



## sabloke

Noobzilla said:


> Checked the manual but can't find info. Does anyone know if 5v on the USB cable is needed or can I use just signal/data? I am shopping for USB cables for my final testing (by that I mean I can't think of anything else I can A/B test in my system and I am most skeptical about USB cables making difference in audio quality). I will try USB Disruptor too.


I am also skeptical about USB cables, however spent a small fortune on a Tschernov usb cable for my ADI-2 a while back. Then there's this video that got me thinking...


----------



## Noobzilla

sabloke said:


> I am also skeptical about USB cables, however spent a small fortune on a Tschernov usb cable for my ADI-2 a while back. Then there's this video that got me thinking...



Interesting video. I've seen several people liking the Supra. I'm about to order some Oyaide before you linked that video. Oyaide can arrive sooner and it has free returns so I think I will go ahead with the Class A Oyaide.


----------



## John Q Lin

I have the grace design m903, would the RME ADI 2 be a good upgrade?


----------



## Matias

Latest firmware version 249/98 for the Pro and 35/34 for the DAC below:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=167427#p167427

MC:
"if one measures jitter attenuation over frequency the attenuation will be quite high at higher frequencies, and quite low at lower ones. The simple reason is that one needs to follow the incoming clock, and if that one varies slowly or a bit quicker (intentional detuning, varipitch) you don't want to loose sync. But that would usually happen when the jitter filter does not let through such slow changes.

In version 249 and 35 we finished what we had begun in version 238 and 34. In those versions the jitter attenuation was 4 x times higher than before, but a bit unstable in the low frequency area (which caused these low level nearby sidebands reported above). This is now resolved. The new SteadyClock works flawlessly with no difference to before, but jitter attenuation now has a corner frequency no longer around 200 Hz, but at around 1 Hz. That means more than 50 dB jitter reduction also at 50 Hz and similar real-world jitter frequencies. Absolutely top-notch for any kind of incoming clock signal.

Later on I will show the difference in behaviour with measurements on my APx555B."


----------



## Cevisi

after installing the update und drivers my rme doesnt change sample rates again on its own.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lucky for me I bought the MC-3+ smartclock or I would have lived with intolerable extra jitter


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> after installing the update und drivers my rme doesnt change sample rates again on its own.


Wait, is this good or bad?


----------



## Cevisi

gimmeheadroom said:


> Wait, is this good or bad?


bad of course it sticks to 44.1 all the time playing 48khz files or 96khz i have to change it manualy but thats not the fault off the update its the fault of the madi driver itself last time i had to wipe my entire pc to get it work again properly. rme of course say its the fault of the others. even when 100 dollars chinese dac amps can get it done right


----------



## gugges

Flashed last night... On MacOS this is not an issue for v35


----------



## betula

Cevisi said:


> bad of course it sticks to 44.1 all the time playing 48khz files or 96khz i have to change it manualy but thats not the fault off the update its the fault of the madi driver itself last time i had to wipe my entire pc to get it work again properly. rme of course say its the fault of the others. even when 100 dollars chinese dac amps can get it done right


Interesting. I never experienced this problem on v33, v34 or v35. (I use ASIO Foobar2K.)


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Cevisi said:


> bad of course it sticks to 44.1 all the time playing 48khz files or 96khz i have to change it manualy but thats not the fault off the update its the fault of the madi driver itself last time i had to wipe my entire pc to get it work again properly. rme of course say its the fault of the others. even when 100 dollars chinese dac amps can get it done right


Ok now I understand. Matias said this is the way it works if you use the ASIO drivers. If you want it to switch, uninstall them (he said).

I verified he is correct but I run with the ASIO drivers, obviously.



betula said:


> Interesting. I never experienced this problem on v33, v34 or v35. (I use ASIO Foobar2K.)


I have V33 and what @Cevisi said is the way it works with stuff like Tidal. But it does work correctly with Foobar2000.


----------



## Matias

gimmeheadroom said:


> Ok now I understand. Matias said this is the way it works if you use the ASIO drivers. If you want it to switch, uninstall them (he said).
> 
> I verified he is correct but I run with the ASIO drivers, obviously.
> 
> ...


Mathias C from RME, not me. 

I say use ASIO in your software player and it will switch rates automatically. And in Windows preferences for the sound device, set a high sample rate like 24/192 and all other Windows media will be upsampled to it (fixed).


----------



## Cevisi

It works with foobar and roon because they switch it with thier own driver but it doesnt work with spotify tidal firefox chrome netflix youtube video games and everthing else that is not a music player with its own asio drivers

After deinstalling the drivers it still dont work i have to wipe my system to get it work again. With a fresh windows and no drivers installed it works flawless even with tidal it changes bitrates like a champ the driver messes it up

Fiio k5pro can change bitrates with tidal too with drivers or without no problem my es100, q5s, and sxfi dac amp can change bitrate with everything else including tidal too


----------



## betula

Cevisi said:


> It works with foobar and roon because they switch it with thier own driver but it doesnt work with spotify tidal firefox chrome netflix youtube video games and everthing else that is not a music player with its own asio drivers
> 
> After deinstalling the drivers it still dont work i have to wipe my system to get it work again. With a fresh windows and no drivers installed it works flawless even with tidal it changes bitrates like a champ the driver messes it up
> 
> Fiio k5pro can change bitrates with tidal too with drivers or without no problem my es100, q5s, and sxfi dac amp can change bitrate with everything else including tidal too


Sounds frustrating. Let's hope RME will fix it with a future software update. Being a pro audio company they might just not used to dealing with streaming services.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Matias said:


> Mathias C from RME, not me.
> 
> I say use ASIO in your software player and it will switch rates automatically. And in Windows preferences for the sound device, set a high sample rate like 24/192 and all other Windows media will be upsampled to it (fixed).


Correct about which Matias. Setting Windows to upsample does not fix it. It just makes it worse. Think about it 



Cevisi said:


> It works with foobar and roon because they switch it with thier own driver but it doesnt work with spotify tidal firefox chrome netflix youtube video games and everthing else that is not a music player with its own asio drivers
> 
> After deinstalling the drivers it still dont work i have to wipe my system to get it work again. With a fresh windows and no drivers installed it works flawless even with tidal it changes bitrates like a champ the driver messes it up
> 
> Fiio k5pro can change bitrates with tidal too with drivers or without no problem my es100, q5s, and sxfi dac amp can change bitrate with everything else including tidal too


It doesn't work flawlessly without the drivers installed it just seems to. With no drivers there is no ASIO and you're using WDM (Windows Destroys Music) Windows audio stack. It only looks like it works.



betula said:


> Sounds frustrating. Let's hope RME will fix it with a future software update. Being a pro audio company they might just not used to dealing with streaming services.


Yep it's frustrating, no they already said live with it or don't use ASIO, yes they don't care...


----------



## Slaphead

arn said:


> That 768 kHz is the maximum *sampling* frequency, not playback frequency.


Yeah, I know, a sampling frequency of 768KHz can produce a rendered frequency of just shy of 384KHz, call it 380KHz after taking into account the Nyquist Shannon sampling theory, which is 3 times higher than a bat can hear.

Pointless for music listening, or any other human listening exercises.


----------



## CaptainFantastic (Mar 19, 2021)

Wladimir said:


> Now something useful, shall we?
> 
> There's a new firmware for our beloved ADI-2's. Changelog says: "ADI-2 DAC FGA 35, ADI-2 Pro FPGA 249: Improved SteadyClock, filter and phase control. SteadyClock’s jitter filter now operates down to 1 Hz instead of about 200 Hz, thus reduces even very low frequency input jitter efficiently."
> 
> ...



After the update, is it supposed to say on the power up screen v34 and in the Setup 12/2019 SW Version 34? I am confused, should it not say 35 and 03/2021?


----------



## Wladimir

CaptainFantastic said:


> After the update, is it supposed to say on the power up screen v34 and in the Setup 12/2019 SW Version 34? I am confused, should it not say 35 and 03/2021?


Yeah, I think we all should have the same. I guess it's because they didn't update DSP this time, just FPGA (core) functions. When you restart the installation, you should see "Current USB revision 35" and that's the latest update.


----------



## sabloke

Itching to try an R2R DAC, like Denafrips Ares II. Is it better than ADI-2 or only different? Or it would complement each other and I should have both? Thoughts?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

sabloke said:


> Itching to try an R2R DAC, like Denafrips Ares II. Is it better than ADI-2 or only different? Or it would complement each other and I should have both? Thoughts?



Different and provides less detail. Immediate difference when A/B-ing. I heard it's a very good option for speakers, but would not recommend for headphones.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

sabloke said:


> Itching to try an R2R DAC, like Denafrips Ares II. Is it better than ADI-2 or only different? Or it would complement each other and I should have both? Thoughts?


For a chipdac, the RME is one of my top 2 dacs as far as being musical goes. I have a low-end R2R and I'm very happy with it. I don't compare my gear but sometimes things do seem obvious to me so I have a sense of my various dacs and what their high points are. My R2R is in another country so I am loth to compare it to the RME. 

I would say you should have both. One is not better than another, it's just how you like to match your recordings to your headphones and your music. Another tool in the audiophile toolbox


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Guys, any feedback on the latest firmware? Did it break anything?


----------



## gikigill

sabloke said:


> Itching to try an R2R DAC, like Denafrips Ares II. Is it better than ADI-2 or only different? Or it would complement each other and I should have both? Thoughts?


I'm using a Bifrost multibit but the RME seems like a better sounding unit.


----------



## sabloke

Narrowed down to Ares II and Gustard X26 Pro at the moment. Might buy both and then keep the one that I like the most.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Check out Audio-gd. Weird UI but the sound is wonderful without losing detail over a chipdac.


----------



## ThEvil0nE

Regarding drivers, in the pro audio industry, RME is best known  for their excellent drivers.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ThEvil0nE said:


> Regarding drivers, in the pro audio industry, RME is best known  for their excellent drivers.


Well in the hifi industry they're not. There is a Day 1 problem with the sample rate not updating with ASIO drivers installed when an app not using ASIO plays through the DAC. Nobody seems to have a similar problem with any other DAC in the world.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Mar 21, 2021)

skhan007 said:


> Understood. Thank you for this information and perhaps we can reset the discussion. What I'm hearing in your post is that I might be hearing is some approximation of what the headphones are capable of delivering with the RME only. The RME can provide the measurable variables that on paper, exemplify adequate (or more than adequate according to Amir's review) driving of 300 Ohm headphones, but what I'm understanding from your post here is that sound quality is not optimized. I've actually been corresponding with a few different RME owners and while they can confirm their high impedance headphones can be functional (maybe that's a better word than drive or driven for these purposes?), some have stated there is staging, separation, etc. that happens with their dedicated amp. I referred to these as the intangibles when approaching the topic here on the Sound Science section.



I moved this thread back to RME because I don't believe the audio scientology crowd actually listens to anything and I assert that measurements don't correlate to sound quality (enjoyment) and therefore I conclude that nobody has yet understood the secret of measuring the performance of audio gear in any meaningful and helpful way. And digital music is not music, it is an approximation of music. This is often forgotten.

So these things you mention are part of what I'm talking about, they're essentials and not intangible any more than music itself is intangible. When we hear music we hear it in noisy, uncontrolled environments with reflections and extraneous noises. If audiophilia is about bringing live music into our homes and ears then the numbers can never tell the story.



skhan007 said:


> An analogous example would be statistical significance vs. clinical significance. We can measure reduction in symptoms, for example in medical research, but that doesn't always mean improvement in quality of life (the intangible not measured by blood tests or other empirically validated measure). So, over the past few days, I've been reading, researching, and watching reviews. Some guys have recommended Burson Soloist X3 and the Singxer SA1, which are (so far) sounding like a good fit.



I would be reluctant to rely on reviews especially on youtube, remember those guys are getting paid per view. You're much more likely to get useful info from people who own the cans, so I'm sure you're reading the ZMF thread and asking questions there.



skhan007 said:


> From a tube amp perspective, other ZMF owners have told me to consider the Pendant (obviously, as a ZMF matched product, but it might be too large for my desktop), the Woo WA3 (OTL vs. transformer coupled, I'm told is a better match for high Z cans),



Yes, that is the current consensus. But I would say look at the WA2 rather than the 3. Feliks might have some good options and there are many custom OTL makers here on the forums.



skhan007 said:


> and Liquid Platinum, which most guys seem to love. I've also learned, from the suggestion of others, that perhaps the magic that apparently occurs with some tube amps is potentially approximated by EQ in the RME.



To my ears and thinking this is totally impossible. The problem with the RME is not the sound it produces, it is simply underpowered for high impedance dynamics. I doubt very much the ZMFs need any EQ at all, they just need the good signal the RME puts out and enough horsepower to make the cans dance. And I say this after comparing several of my headphones directly out of the RME and then with the RME driving various amps. The RME sound is hard to beat, and EQ is just for specific problems.



skhan007 said:


> I'm absolutely open-minded and if I purchase one and it doesn't feel/sound any better to my ears, I'll simply sell. I'm leaning towards solid state at this juncture, which is odd considering how many tube guitar amps I own and have previously owned. I'm just not convinced nor certain about the external amp, so I'm continuing to gather my information.



If so then Violectric, GSX Mini, SPL Phonitor, and Bryston are some to consider. And if you have deep pockets or are ok with a 2nd mortgage then look at Nimbus.


----------



## gugges

@skhan007 I am currently on week 4 of waiting for the A&S Mogwai SE with upgraded Jupiter caps. I opted for that over the Pendant SE because it is more euphonic and has enough power with the right tubes to drive Susvara and other hard to drive headphones. Which in the long run, will matter to me as I expand my collection.

Will make sure to share impressions once I get it and spend some time with it!


----------



## skhan007

gugges said:


> @skhan007 I am currently on week 4 of waiting for the A&S Mogwai SE with upgraded Jupiter caps. I opted for that over the Pendant SE because it is more euphonic and has enough power with the right tubes to drive Susvara and other hard to drive headphones. Which in the long run, will matter to me as I expand my collection.
> 
> Will make sure to share impressions once I get it and spend some time with it!


Wow, I just looked that up! Looks amazing from the specs. On the topic of tube amps, I've actually built my own (for guitar) from a kit, which was a cathode biased EL84 power section and 12ax7 preamps and phase inverter. It's one of my favorite amps to this day. From what I'm seeing with headphone tube amps is that they look to involve far less parts. For example, single stage preamp, phase inverter, coupling caps, filter caps, and power transformer (in the OTL versions any way). I've seen countless recommendations for the Bottlehead Crack Speedball, which looks like a fairly quick assembly. Would that be a good introduction to tube headphone amps? Curious if the RME users have tried this one.


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

skhan007 said:


> Can anyone please help, on my pro BE I can't seem to get the setting for balanced headphone connection out of mono. When balanced is switched on it is always sounding in mono. Was it designed to function like this?


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

Can anyone please help, on my pro BE I can't seem to get the setting for balanced headphone connection out of mono. When balanced is switched on it is always sounding in mono. Was it designed to function like this?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

There is a separate thread for the Pro version. If I recall, the Pro version has two out of phase 1/4 inch jacks, if so you're gonna need an adapter cable.


----------



## spacelion2077 (Mar 23, 2021)

Hey recently I just purchased rme Adi 2 to upgrade from monolith desktop DAC amp. To those who have listened to both. Can someone compare their crossfeed function and overall sound? Which one sounds better in terms of treble, bass and soundstage.


----------



## dougq

spacelion2077 said:


> Hey recently I just purchased rme Adi 2 to upgrade from monolith desktop DAC amp. To those who have listened to both. Can someone compare their crossfeed function and overall sound? Which one sounds better in terms of treble, bass and soundstage.


I can tell you from an overall sound quality perspective it will likely sound the same.  I think both measure well enough beyond what we are capable of hearing.  The RME sounds equally as good from an amp / dac perspective as my modi 3 / heresey / asgard 3 setup.  

I do not listen to anything that benefits from crossfeed though.


----------



## spacelion2077

dougq said:


> I can tell you from an overall sound quality perspective it will likely sound the same.  I think both measure well enough beyond what we are capable of hearing.  The RME sounds equally as good from an amp / dac perspective as my modi 3 / heresey / asgard 3 setup.
> 
> I do not listen to anything that benefits from crossfeed though.


Monolith desktop doesn't have balanced xlr output. Can you hear a difference when you use them as a preamp, unbalances in balanced out vs balanced in balanced out?


----------



## dougq

spacelion2077 said:


> Monolith desktop doesn't have balanced xlr output. Can you hear a difference when you use them as a preamp, unbalances in balanced out vs balanced in balanced out?


I use it as an all in one.  I can't imagine there would be a sound difference.  I have yet to run a headphone that even requires high power output.  Sorry can't help you on that one.


----------



## spacelion2077

dougq said:


> I use it as an all in one.  I can't imagine there would be a sound difference.  I have yet to run a headphone that even requires high power output.  Sorry can't help you on that one.


I'm planning on feeding it to my audio gd m9. Would love to have some feedback on its crossfeed setting as it gives listeners a speaker like experience


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

I have the adi2 pro (Be edition) .Can someone please help me with confirming if using the device balanced headphone out should always sound mono? My settings: mono-to the left,  width-1.0, balance-0, balanced headphone-on


----------



## NickedWicked

Emmanuel Palmer said:


> I have the adi2 pro (Be edition) .Can someone please help me with confirming if using the device balanced headphone out should always sound mono? My settings: mono-to the left,  width-1.0, balance-0, balanced headphone-on


Firstly, this is again, the wrong thread. Secondly do you use an adapter, because you cannot get a balanced connection with a single 6.3mm jack.


----------



## Emmanuel Palmer

NickedWicked said:


> Firstly, this is again, the wrong thread. Secondly do you use an adapter, because you cannot get a balanced connection with a single 6.3mm jack.


Yes am using an adapter which i also used with my previous device (myteck broklyn dac plus)


----------



## Slaphead

spacelion2077 said:


> I'm planning on feeding it to my audio gd m9. Would love to have some feedback on its crossfeed setting *as it gives listeners a speaker like experience*


Well I suppose it can do, if you have your head strapped solidly into position where it can't move. In my experience, however, crossfade almost works, until you move your head and then the whole sound collapses into one big fat phasey mess.

One of the big things about good stereo speakers is that you can move your head and the sound remains where you expect it to be - you can "look" at the sound/instrument that interests you an it will become centre in your audio "vision". You simply can't do that with standard crossfade implementations.

To get a good headphone effect then you not only need crossfade but also a sound that also pans with your head movements.

Sony absolutely nailed this with the Playstation VR audio implementation, but given the additional tech needed to capture head tracking I'm not really surprised that it hasn't made its way into mainstream headphone listening.


----------



## Golyatx

Hi, can anyone record video or tell me exactly how to set low shelf to 100hz? Whats the default value? Its the 100hz? Thanks!


----------



## CK Moustache

Golyatx said:


> Hi, can anyone record video or tell me exactly how to set low shelf to 100hz? Whats the default value? Its the 100hz? Thanks!



Press "EQ" to access the EQ screen, use the big central encoder to adjust the gain, then press the "2" encoder and adjust the Q value by rotating just that encoder. Then press "EQ" again to access the EQ quick menu and activate the EQ by rotating "2" clockwise. By the way, yes, 100 Hz (and low shelf) is already the default value for the first of the five EQ bands (the type of filter can be adjusted by pressing "2" again - one can generally see which values can be currently change by their colour as those are white whereas the others remain grey on the EQ screen).


----------



## CK Moustache

Matias said:


> Latest firmware version 249/98 for the Pro and 35/34 for the DAC below:
> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=167427#p167427
> 
> MC:
> ...



They've released yet another follow-up firmware update "ADI-2 Pro 250 / 102 and DAC 35 / 35" https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=167872#p167872



> Furthermore the firmware updates add these features/changes:
> 
> *Sample Rate Converter (SRC) improvements (all Pro models)*
> The ISP (Intersample Peak) headroom for the SRC has been reduced from 6 dB to 3 dB. This improves low level accuracy and SNR, and improves low level THD. 6 dB was not necessary (plus  the Pro FS R BE already has 2.5 dB digital headroom).
> ...


----------



## Noobzilla

After more than a week of burning in my 1m Oyaide Neo Class A d+  cable, I decided to A/B test it vs RME stock USB cable. It's one of the easier comparisons I've done since the Oyaide clearly improves the sound. A bit shocked myself since I was in that "it's just digital transportation, USB cable shouldnt matter" camp until just earlier. I do have the iFi Power Elite adapter upgrade which significantly improved the RME. I don't know how noticeable a USB upgrade would be without it (too lazy to unpack and set up old adapter).


----------



## Golyatx

Noobzilla said:


> After more than a week of burning in my 1m Oyaide Neo Class A d+  cable, I decided to A/B test it vs RME stock USB cable. It's one of the easier comparisons I've done since the Oyaide clearly improves the sound. A bit shocked myself since I was in that "it's just digital transportation, USB cable shouldnt matter" camp until just earlier. I do have the iFi Power Elite adapter upgrade which significantly improved the RME. I don't know how noticeable a USB upgrade would be without it (too lazy to unpack and set up old adapter).


Please send me links -where-to-buy- to everything you have that improved the RME. Thanks! I also want some improvements 😀


----------



## dougq

Golyatx said:


> Please send me links -where-to-buy- to everything you have that improved the RME. Thanks! I also want some improvements 😀


Amazon. But after testing these there was no difference in sound from stock cable for me.


----------



## Golyatx

Im still confused about the "clock thing".
If I just plug it into Windows (and install drivers) its automaticaly set to Windows slave and RME Master?
ed: usb


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Nobody needs anything to make the RME sound better. Why waste your money?


----------



## Slaphead

gimmeheadroom said:


> Nobody needs anything to make the RME sound better. Why waste your money?


Oh man - it amazes me the amount of people that will buy a cheap budget DAC and then spend god knows how much on cables trying to improve it - and honestly budget DACs are pretty damned good out of the box these days. If it wasn't for the fact that I needed certain aspects of the ADI-2's functionality then I'd still be with a $200 USB audio interface. Yes the ADI-2 is better in terms of sound quality, but it's nowhere near as much as people might like to think it is. To be perfectly honest a solid modern DAC is the second least likely component to influence sound quality.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

In almost 300 pages I think I found 2 or 3 people claiming they had improvements from running off DC instead of the wall wart or some other tweak. Oh there was that horrible Franken-RME that somebody did by soldering in some large caps to the point the case no longer fit- I am still trying to block that picture out of my mind


----------



## Noobzilla

@Golyatx 

Got them on Amazon in the U.S. I'm not sure about EU but definitely shop where there's good return policy so you won't be stuck with the item or lose money selling it as second hand in case you don't notice improvement or just not worth the price for whatever reason (there's a ton of variables like overall quality of all equipment, music files, etc). I've definitely returned items in the past despite claims of improvement by others.

You'll hear people with very strong opinions. What's reasonable for you may not be for others and vice versa. Which is fine. Do your research and make informed decisions. Be skeptical but have an open mind. Overall, it's best to try them yourself and decide on your own whether there's improvement and if it's worth the cost for you -- it's your money so don't let others dictate what's a waste of your money or not.


----------



## Marutks

dougq said:


> Amazon. But after testing these there was no difference in sound from stock cable for me.



 I have got Audioquest Forest USB cable.   No difference from stock cable.


----------



## Wladimir

gimmeheadroom said:


> In almost 300 pages I think I found 2 or 3 people claiming they had improvements from running off DC instead of the wall wart or some other tweak. Oh there was that horrible Franken-RME that somebody did by soldering in some large caps to the point the case no longer fit- I am still trying to block that picture out of my mind



Yeah that one was legendary.
Anyway, you can count me in to those few lucky ones, who found a way to improve the sound from ADI-2.

First and foremost, power filtering was such a huge jump for me that when I got back to my original power strip, I was shocked, how could I've listened to that crap before.

Regarding power supplies, first gen iFi iPower 15V was some step up - not big, but noticeable, however hard to tell if worth it. Then I tried their last gen Elite version and that was a very clear improvement, even with filtering in place already.

Then I tried their USB iPurifier just out of curiosity and was convinced beforehand that I'll be returning it, but there was a clearly audible improvement again, so I happily kept it. 

However, it's always system/environment dependable, so everybody can have different results, as always. 

Best is to try it for yourself and better don't trust blindly to anyone, who is confidently claiming what is or isn't possible


----------



## Marutks

Wladimir said:


> Regarding power supplies, first gen iFi iPower 15V was some step up - not big, but noticeable, however hard to tell if worth it. Then I tried their last gen Elite version and that was a very clear improvement, even with filtering in place already.



What do you use as a power conditioner?

Is it this power adapter that makes RME DAC sound better?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/iFi-iPower-Elite-Supply-Adapter/dp/B08THRHZY9

Do you think it will improve sound of my RME DAC?    I use it with a tube amplifier.  Do you use an amplifier with your DAC?


----------



## Wladimir

Marutks said:


> What do you use as a power conditioner?
> 
> Is it this power adapter that makes RME DAC sound better?
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/iFi-iPower-Elite-Supply-Adapter/dp/B08THRHZY9
> ...


I just use a passive filtering strip - Oehlbach Powersocket 907. It was one of the items I wasn't expecting any audible improvement, but it cleaned the sound beyond my imagination, since I had perceived the sound fairly clean even before it.

I'm suspecting it's because I feed my ADI-2 from a PC, so together with screen & other desk electronics, they probably create a lot of "noise" or disturbances (or however it's properly called). So this might not and probably won't be the case for everyone! But for me definitely the best upgrade overall. 

Beyond that filtering, iPower Elite (yes that's the one you sent) made the sound more "prominent" and clearer. Pretty unexpected change and hard to describe properly, maybe with better filtering won't be needed or vice versa - without any filtering could bring more improvement. But it's a keeper for me, since I enjoy my music better. 

Yes I'm using it with a dedicated amplifier, GS-X Mini. Can't tell you how it's gonna behave in your system, but even with the built-in amp, I'm hearing the same improvements.


----------



## ejswa51

Just a stupid question. Say I would like to use the DSP engine with eq and the likes of this wonderful DAC, how could I get analogue vinyl sound in this thing? I thought an Rega Fono Mini A2D would work via connecting it's usb out to the RMA's usb in. But no sound comes through...
Any idea why? And would anyone have any other suggestions?
(Yes I know I'm converting analogue to digital to analogue which is stupid but ah let me be  )


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Apr 8, 2021)

Because the DAC is a USB device that communicates over USB drivers and so is the Rega (probably). They can't talk to each other.

The RME DAC does not have analog input. The pro version does though.


----------



## Slaphead (Apr 8, 2021)

ejswa51 said:


> Just a stupid question. Say I would like to use the DSP engine with eq and the likes of this wonderful DAC, how could I get analogue vinyl sound in this thing? I thought an Rega Fono Mini A2D would work via connecting it's usb out to the RMA's usb in. But no sound comes through...
> Any idea why? And would anyone have any other suggestions?
> (Yes I know I'm converting analogue to digital to analogue which is stupid but ah let me be  )


Digitise your vinyl - the digital copy, if done right, will retain everything you like about vinyl. The standard 16 bits of bit depth is overkill to capture vinyls dynamic range, and 96 khz sample rate will capture pretty much all frequencies on the format for a mint record on a first playthrough, but honestly 44 khz is more than enough as vinyl tends to lose whatever ultrasonic content it has after one or two playthroughs

If you want your existing digital music to sound more like analog then there's a whole host of tube and vinyl VSTs and AUs that you can use with your audio player - assuming it supports them.


----------



## CaptainFantastic (Apr 8, 2021)

So a paragraph about this screen appears on page 31 of the manual. But why is it happening exactly?

It happened once a couple of months ago, and now again. I am not 100% sure, but I think the first time was the same sequence of events as this evening:

1) I turn on RME

2) I turn on my tube amp which is connected to RME via RCA cables

3) I plug in headphones and listen for 2-3 hours

4) I unplug from tube amp (zero volume and all that), turn off tube amp

5) I plug headphone jack into RME to listen directly via RME amp... I get this screen.

6) I try several times, same screen - it's as if it won't change automatically to headphones out from line out?

7) I wait 5 minutes, plug headphones in to the RME, now it works, no DC detected screen.

Does anyone know why this is happening?


----------



## betula

CaptainFantastic said:


> So a paragraph about this screen appears on page 31 of the manual. But why is it happening exactly?
> 
> It happened once a couple of months ago, and now again. I am not 100% sure, but I think the first time was the same sequence of events as this evening:
> 
> ...


What is your current firmware?


----------



## CaptainFantastic (Apr 8, 2021)

betula said:


> What is your current firmware?



Latest. March update, 2nd update (I think there were two last month).


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Just a guess, if the tube amp is still plugged into the RME then I guess it is leaking DC after it's shut off. If so you could try unplugging the tube amp from the RME input between steps 4 and 5


----------



## CaptainFantastic

gimmeheadroom said:


> Just a guess, if the tube amp is still plugged into the RME then I guess it is leaking DC after it's shut off. If so you could try unplugging the tube amp from the RME input between steps 4 and 5



I was thinking that too, but since I don't have technical knowledge in this area I was hesitant to put it out there as a possibility. Assuming this is what's happening, does it mean the tube amp (Woo Audio WA3) is potentially damaging the RME with this leakage of current?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I'm sorry, I think I was probably incorrect about even the possibility of that. I was in the middle of too many things when I posted it. Now I don't know what to say. Is it really too early for a beer? I'm gonna have to find out.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

No problem, really does seem like a likely scenario. I think I will ask on the RME forums directly.


----------



## Golyatx

CaptainFantastic said:


> No problem, really does seem like a likely scenario. I think I will ask on the RME forums directly.


even the "creator" of rme (i think) is there.. so yea ask directly here for this


----------



## bgbkt

I am currently using Bluesound Node 2i as streamer as well as DAC in my setup and looking at adding RME ADI-2 FC as DAC only. Do you guys think this will be noticeable upgrade from Node 2i’s internal DAC? Or it will be just minor upgrade considering DAC in Node 2i is fairly good.


----------



## Noobzilla

I just tried the iFi iPurifier3 on the ADI-2. I tested it at 0hrs and 100+ hrs of burn in. My initial impression of it stays the same.

tldr: Does it change the sound? Yes. Is it for the better? Depends on preference.

Overall sound seems to be cleaner and smoother, but then I realize it's because some other sounds and frequency got their "weight" chopped off a bit. Hard for me to explain, but I think the iPurifier ends up "filtering" /cutting out sounds that are actually part of the music/instrument so some instruments end up sounding slightly more fake and anemic to some degree. Though some might prefer the smoother sound, I find the overall musicality to be a bit more dull and less exciting with the iPurifier. Unlike the iFi Elite power adapter which improved sound quality across the board, I find the iPurifier to be questionable so I will be returning it.


----------



## iFi audio

Noobzilla said:


> Overall sound seems to be cleaner and smoother, but then I realize it's because some other sounds and frequency got their "weight" chopped off a bit. Hard for me to explain, but I think the iPurifier ends up "filtering" /cutting out sounds that are actually part of the music/instrument so some instruments end up sounding slightly more fake and anemic to some degree. Though some might prefer the smoother sound, I find the overall musicality to be a bit more dull and less exciting with the iPurifier. Unlike the iFi Elite power adapter which improved sound quality across the board, I find the iPurifier to be questionable so I will be returning it



All good! It's always best to try stuff for ourselves, so thanks for giving our iPurifier a try in your setup


----------



## bgbkt

Did they increase the price of RME ADI-2 DAC FS again? It's now $1299 everywhere, it was $1149 just a few days ago.


----------



## sabloke

Chips shortages are kicking in and so is all that money printing. My advice if you want audio gear and you can get it now, get it. Don't wait because things are not getting any better.


----------



## NickedWicked

sabloke said:


> Chips shortages are kicking in and so is all that money printing. My advice if you want audio gear and you can get it now, get it. Don't wait because things are not getting any better.


In fact, things are about to get a lot worse. The chain is shaking in it’s foundation and I foresee a major price hike in the majority of products, especially electronics.


----------



## gbernard6

Hey everyone, very first message here.

Completely new to this world, working on building my little head-fi solitarium which will be, soon enough, composed of:

- QNAP TS-473 NAS running Roon natively (my own library + Tidal Hi-Fi) -> RME ADI-2 DAC FS -> Custom tube amp (working on it with my dad as a side project - waiting on those freakin transformers to get here ) -> A good pair of cans (looks like the Utopia have taken the lead right now in my tests)

Received the RME 2 days ago and quite happy with it so far. Waiting on the NAS to arrive later this week. 

*I must say, I really appreciate everyone's input on how to get the best out of this DAC/Amp, this community is both helpful and respectful which is quite refreshing. *

Looking forward to sharing more musical experiences.
Cheers,
G

P.S: Wanted to post a quick picture of today's tests but couldn't find how to post a picture in this forum without hosting it on an external domain. So much for those 2 degrees in CS I guess


----------



## CK Moustache

gbernard6 said:


> P.S: Wanted to post a quick picture of today's tests but couldn't find how to post a picture in this forum without hosting it on an external domain. So much for those 2 degrees in CS I guess



I'm not 100% sure, but I think that one needs to have at least a certain number of published posts before the "insert image" function is activated.


----------



## Deceneu808

Just joined the club. Been pressing buttons for 3 hours lmao. Quite the upgrade from the Zen DAC


----------



## Melting735

Deceneu808 said:


> Just joined the club. Been pressing buttons for 3 hours lmao. Quite the upgrade from the Zen DAC


Lol. This is so far the hardest dac that I have ever used. The user manual is like a book.


----------



## gbernard6

Quick question (and update) here: 

I have received every element in this chain (except for the custom amp. Transformers take forever to arrive... so using the DAC amplifier): 

 QNAP TS-473 NAS running Roon natively (my own library + Tidal Hi-Fi) -> RME ADI-2 DAC FS -> Custom tube amp  -> Focal Utopia

I'm really enjoying this setup, incredible moments have happened here already. However, I'm finding that the sound could use a little bit more bass in general. I've played with the Bass gain knob and it helps a bit but it feels like more could be done. 

The question: Am I in the right direction when I'm trying to increase Zone 1 on the EQ to augment the gain on low frequencies (bass) or is it something completely different? 

I have ready the manual but I have not quite yet found the "perfect" setting. 

(Note: It is still, in its current condition, BY FAR the best setup I've listened too and that includes arrangement of DAC/AMP/Cans worth 10k$+)

Thanks everyone for your help!
G


----------



## Noobzilla

gbernard6 said:


> The question: Am I in the right direction when I'm trying to increase Zone 1 on the EQ to augment the gain on low frequencies (bass) or is it something completely different?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-thread.868015/page-191#post-15705360

You can adjust the left to right distance of the Zone. I shortened my Zone 1 so I can drop Zone 2 immediately otherwise the EQ start to affect other instruments which I didnt like. Also for some reason, very low frequencies give me headache so I avoid increasing that area. Of course this is my personal preference since I love my heavy bass.  RME is absolutely fantastic with its EQ capabilities.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Melting735 said:


> Lol. This is so far the hardest dac that I have ever used. The user manual is like a book.



You plug it in, connect it via USB or optical (install driver if USB), turn it on, plug the headphones in and it plays great sounding music. What's hard about that?

The manual and the options are there if you want any of them and makes it easy to do so.


----------



## Slaphead

Melting735 said:


> Lol. This is so far the hardest dac that I have ever used. The user manual is like a book.





CaptainFantastic said:


> You plug it in, connect it via USB or optical (install driver if USB), turn it on, plug the headphones in and it plays great sounding music. What's hard about that?
> 
> The manual and the options are there if you want any of them and makes it easy to do so.



I can't agree more with @CaptainFantastic. It really is a case of plug in and play. My ADI-2 is at default settings as I so far have had no need to utilise any of the extra functions other that altering channel phase - useful for some youtube videos where the sound is either accidentally or deliberately out of phase. And the beauty of the ADI-2 is that it has these functions, even though you think you may never need them.

You don't need to read the manual to enjoy the ADI-2, but understanding what it can do can really help in fringe cases where audio would otherwise be unlistenable.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Well, you do have to download the USB driver and firmware and flash the firmware.  But yeah, you can run it out of the box otherwise.


----------



## CK Moustache

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well, you do have to download the USB driver and firmware and flash the firmware.  But yeah, you can run it out of the box otherwise.



Not necessarily as there haven't even been any major bugs on the older FW versions, although it's definitely nice that new features and bug fixes are still implemented regularly. Unlike something such as the PowerBeats Pro that seem to only work correctly with newer-generation electronic devices (they don't work properly with my Apple iPhone 4 or BlackBerry Classic), it's not as if the ADI-2 DAC required any computer or other modern device to work as it is supposed to be. In fact, I more or less only connect mine to my desktop computer when a new firmware version is released (although it's not really necessary to keep it up to date - the original firmware it came with would be already sufficient) in order to update it, but otherwise my beloved Pioneer PD-S 701CD player is the only source that is connected to it (through TOSLINK); I'm using my ADI-2 DAC solely with IEMs and full-sized headphones, with my PC speaker rig's pre volume controlled by a FiiO K3 (that has got several flaws on its own and is overall far from perfect, but ultimately more convenient in my use case, and ultimately convenience is what is more important in real-world use case listening scenarios), and am only using the supplied USB cable to ground it (otherwise there is audible mains hum with very sensitive IEMs as the electricity where I live is quite poor). The crossfeed feature is however very nice, and over time I have come to using it pretty much all of the time on my ADI-2 DAC (usually set to 1 or 2, depending on the headphones/IEMs used and how well the crossfeed setting works with the CD that I listen to).


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CK Moustache said:


> Not necessarily as there haven't even been any major bugs on the older FW versions, although it's definitely nice that new features and bug fixes are still implemented regularly. Unlike something such as the PowerBeats Pro that seem to only work correctly with newer-generation electronic devices (they don't work properly with my Apple iPhone 4 or BlackBerry Classic), it's not as if the ADI-2 DAC required any computer or other modern device to work as it is supposed to be. In fact, I more or less only connect mine to my desktop computer when a new firmware version is released (although it's not really necessary to keep it up to date - the original firmware it came with would be already sufficient) in order to update it, but otherwise my beloved Pioneer PD-S 701CD player is the only source that is connected to it (through TOSLINK); I'm using my ADI-2 DAC solely with IEMs and full-sized headphones, with my PC speaker rig's pre volume controlled by a FiiO K3 (that has got several flaws on its own and is overall far from perfect, but ultimately more convenient in my use case, and ultimately convenience is what is more important in real-world use case listening scenarios), and am only using the supplied USB cable to ground it (otherwise there is audible mains hum with very sensitive IEMs as the electricity where I live is quite poor). The crossfeed feature is however very nice, and over time I have come to using it pretty much all of the time on my ADI-2 DAC (usually set to 1 or 2, depending on the headphones/IEMs used and how well the crossfeed setting works with the CD that I listen to).


As I remember it for Windows you do need to find the USB drivers and download them no matter what. You're right, if you can live with older firmware you can avoid the other two pieces, device firmware and firmware updater or whatever they call it. I got one of the first units when 2nd gen came out and there were a lot of firmware updates.

Most people are using it over USB though, not as you said.

Point of my post, yeah for new people who are not computer savvy I agree this one is a bit harder than normal. The UI makes it that much worse. 

But when you get it in the zone- this DAC is the best value in all of audiodom. It's the best 1000 USD/EURO anybody will ever spend on audio.


----------



## CK Moustache

gimmeheadroom said:


> As I remember it for Windows you do need to find the USB drivers and download them no matter what.



I'm quite sure that this is not the case - at least I don't remember having downloaded anything but the firmware upgrade tool package every now and then when they release an update that is worth installing. As it is a prosumer device coming from a pro-audio manufacturer, it should have USB audio class downward compatibility and should therefore work without any additional drivers with Red Book standard material and generally up to 24 bit 96 kHz material (USB audio class 1).




gimmeheadroom said:


> Point of my post, yeah for new people who are not computer savvy I agree this one is a bit harder than normal. The UI makes it that much worse.



Perhaps true - but once one has figured out the basic navigation and operation, cycling through the menus and screens is, in my opinion, very easy and self-explanatory. But all of the nice features the ADI-2 DAC has implemented are just a very nice bonus on top, since one can use its basic functionality without ever digging into any of the menus.


----------



## NickedWicked

CK Moustache said:


> I'm quite sure that this is not the case - at least I don't remember having downloaded anything but the firmware upgrade tool package every now and then when they release an update that is worth installing. As it is a prosumer device coming from a pro-audio manufacturer, it should have USB audio class downward compatibility and should therefore work without any additional drivers with Red Book standard material and generally up to 24 bit 96 kHz material (USB audio class 1).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The PnP driver is a necessity to update the firmware, highly recommended to keep it updated anyway to guarantee the best compatibility with newer versions of Windows and the RME unit itself. Keeping the unit up-to-date is also very worthwhile, RME has been continuously improving how the DAC functions, even the performance and safety has gotten better over the years (for ALL ADI-2 units). 

From what I've heard RME is planning to integrate the B/T function into the PEQ as well as general UI improvements, I hope they will add commands to the remote someday so that we not have to use the encoders anymore to browse through the UI.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CK Moustache said:


> I'm quite sure that this is not the case - at least I don't remember having downloaded anything but the firmware upgrade tool package every now and then when they release an update that is worth installing. As it is a prosumer device coming from a pro-audio manufacturer, it should have USB audio class downward compatibility and should therefore work without any additional drivers with Red Book standard material and generally up to 24 bit 96 kHz material (USB audio class 1).


You are right about that last part. But that is not enough if you want bit perfect over ASIO which I think is something that people are right to expect at that price point. To get ASIO you have to deal with their drivers.



CK Moustache said:


> Perhaps true - but once one has figured out the basic navigation and operation, cycling through the menus and screens is, in my opinion, very easy and self-explanatory. But all of the nice features the ADI-2 DAC has implemented are just a very nice bonus on top, since one can use its basic functionality without ever digging into any of the menus.


You can mostly live with the defaults but there are a few things that probably need changing for most people. Whether that's complicated or easy or something in between really depends on the person no matter how easy you may have found it. Most of the DACs and other devices people buy don't have anywhere near the complexity. There is a tradeoff, as always. The RME can do more than most DACs. But it requires more fiddling.


----------



## Golyatx

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=33007

anyone here can answer my question here? what do you think? the streamer is Pioneer n-30ae


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Golyatx said:


> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=33007
> 
> anyone here can answer my question here? what do you think? the streamer is Pioneer n-30ae


Cinch? No. That's analog. The RME doesn't have any analog input... the Pro version does but it gets converted to digital.

If you want to run a device into the RME that doesn't support USB you have options of S/PDIF coax or optical. Maybe your Pioneer has one or both of those options. You can easily get cables at alza...pm me if you need help


----------



## Golyatx

gimmeheadroom said:


> Cinch? No. That's analog. The RME doesn't have any analog input... the Pro version does but it gets converted to digital.
> 
> If you want to run a device into the RME that doesn't support USB you have options of S/PDIF coax or optical. Maybe your Pioneer has one or both of those options. You can easily get cables at alza...pm me if you need help


Ah yea my bad so those on back of rme adi 2 dac FS are OUTPUTS... yea? now I get it thanks


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Sadly, no digital out on that Pioneer box. You have to use the internal DAC.


----------



## Golyatx

gimmeheadroom said:


> Sadly, no digital out on that Pioneer box. You have to use the internal DAC.


yea yea thanks.. i was just wondering if the streamer is supposed to sound better then connected from usb from pc sound


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.

With this equipment, PC > RME is going to sound better than the streamer. The streamer will be more convenient, probably.


----------



## butch111 (Apr 29, 2021)

linearly said:


> Ok so after completing my audio chain with some good XLR cables (Van den Hul 3T The Mountain) and power cables I could compare the RME ADI-2 amp out versus the Topping A90 with my HD650s.
> 
> I have to admit from what I'm hearing now that I was wrong before saying that the ADI 2 amp is bad with my 650s. The problem with the midrange was because of the AKMs 'Velvet Sound', where the midrange takes a dip and sounds smoother, because I prefer the ESS sound signature, I fixed that with some EQ, raised 2,3,4,5k by 2db.
> 
> ...


Oh thank you.
After finding your post I know that i am not stupid.....elsewhere audioscene-people are laughing about this opinion about ADI vs A90. I heard exactly the same! Now I believe in AMP-sound and searching for something what can top the internal ADI-Amp.   (ifi pro iCan?)


----------



## betula

butch111 said:


> Oh thank you.
> After finding your post I know that i am not stupid.....elsewhere audioscene-people are laughing about this opinion about ADI vs A90. I heard exactly the same! Now I believe in AMP-sound and searching for something what can top the internal ADI-Amp.   (ifi pro iCan?)


ADI-2 already has a good amp which can satisfy many people. But if you are ready to invest in a dedicated amp you will hear improvements. 
I wasn't too happy with the THX-789 but the Soloist 3XP or the Pro iCan both improve clarity and dynamics quite a bit. Better separation, air, refinement, definition. Most obviously in bass. To my experience the better headphones you plug in, the more improvement you hear. (I tried LCD-X, Arya, Empyrean with these combos.)

For twice the money (ADI2+good amp vs. ADI-2) don't expect 'twice as good sound', but improvements in the areas above. As I said, the ADI-2 has a decent amp. Currawong said in one of his reviews that he thinks the ADI-2's built in amp performs on a Magni 3 level. IMO it is a little bit better than a Magni 3, but just a little bit. Higher quality amps to my experience will bring the improvements I have described.


----------



## Deceneu808

I've had the RME figured out in less than 3 hours. Never opened the manual. It took me a while to learn how to navigate the menus but now I have a map in my head and know exactly where each setting is. This is by far the best piece of audio gear I have bought. I'm very happy with it


----------



## skhan007

betula said:


> ADI-2 already has a good amp which can satisfy many people. But if you are ready to invest in a dedicated amp you will hear improvements.
> I wasn't too happy with the THX-789 but the Soloist 3XP or the Pro iCan both improve clarity and dynamics quite a bit. Better separation, air, refinement, definition. Most obviously in bass. To my experience the better headphones you plug in, the more improvement you hear. (I tried LCD-X, Arya, Empyrean with these combos.)
> 
> For twice the money (ADI2+good amp vs. ADI-2) don't expect 'twice as good sound', but improvements in the areas above. As I said, the ADI-2 has a decent amp. Currawong said in one of his reviews that he thinks the ADI-2's built in amp performs on a Magni 3 level. IMO it is a little bit better than a Magni 3, but just a little bit. Higher quality amps to my experience will bring the improvements I have described.


Full agree. The built-in amp is great, but use your ears to see if you like it and if you perceive an improvement with external amps. I took my ADI-2 to a couple of hifi shops to test drive it with amps.


----------



## Deceneu808

skhan007 said:


> Full agree. The built-in amp is great, but use your ears to see if you like it and if you perceive an improvement with external amps. I took my ADI-2 to a couple of hifi shops to test drive it with amps.


I use it with my little Zen CAN and I can't stop playing tracks


----------



## betula

skhan007 said:


> Full agree. The built-in amp is great, but use your ears to see if you like it and if you perceive an improvement with external amps. I took my ADI-2 to a couple of hifi shops to test drive it with amps.


Agreed. And we shouldn't forget that the ADI-2's DAC section is spectacular, competing with some more expensive DACs. That combined with the feature set makes the ADI-2 a very good deal.


----------



## Slaphead

Deceneu808 said:


> *I've had the RME figured out in less than 3 hours. Never opened the manual.* It took me a while to learn how to navigate the menus but now I have a map in my head and know exactly where each setting is. This is by far the best piece of audio gear I have bought. I'm very happy with it


If you substitute "RME" for any other tech based subject then that's exactly what every single one of the guys I'm mentoring says right before they perform a screw-up of expensive and monumental proportions.

Sure the RME isn't complicated, but the manual is worth a read as there are functions that are perhaps not immediately apparent when just flicking through the interface.


----------



## betula

Slaphead said:


> If you substitute "RME" for any other tech based subject then that's exactly what every single one of the guys I'm mentoring says right before they perform a screw-up of expensive and monumental proportions.
> 
> Sure the RME isn't complicated, but the manual is worth a read as there are functions that are perhaps not immediately apparent when just flicking through the interface.


It is easy to get a basic understanding of menu navigation without the manual, if someone is not a complete noob. But I agree the manual is useful. Without the manual I don't think I could have found out how to fine-tune the level of bass/treble increase in loudness mode for example.


----------



## Verificateur

Is it possible to independently control the volume of the 1/4” and the 3.5mm outputs for simultaneous playback on the RME?

Playback will be on headphones of different sensitivity/impedance hence the question about volume control as I would want to volume-match.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Verificateur said:


> Is it possible to independently control the volume of the 1/4” and the 3.5mm outputs for simultaneous playback on the RME?
> 
> Playback will be on headphones of different sensitivity/impedance hence the question about volume control as I would want to volume-match.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


No, not to my knowledge


----------



## CK Moustache

Verificateur said:


> Is it possible to independently control the volume of the 1/4” and the 3.5mm outputs for simultaneous playback on the RME?
> 
> Playback will be on headphones of different sensitivity/impedance hence the question about volume control as I would want to volume-match.
> 
> Thanks in advance!



No, not possible, since unlike the ADI-2 Pro, the ADI-2 DAC has got "only" one DAC chip (whereas the Pro has got two of them and can therefore control both outputs independently along with the possibility of using both with a special cable configuration for balanced headphone termination; the small tradeoff is however that while the IEM output is completely silent and hiss-free even with IEMs that are as sensitive as the Campfire Audio Andrimeda, the PHONES output showcases just a tiny bit of audible hiss with them (which would still place it at the top of the very best devices in terms of hiss performance, but it's ultimately just a little less perfect than the dedicated IEM output)).


----------



## Golyatx

hi guys so im thinking about buying Burson Soloist 3xp to further "improve" sound.. 

BUT the question is... will it have any impact on Focal Clear s which are very "easy to drive"? 

probably yes i think? power is definitely overkill for those, but we all know power isnt everything..


----------



## dougq

Golyatx said:


> hi guys so im thinking about buying Burson Soloist 3xp to further "improve" sound..
> 
> BUT the question is... will it have any impact on Focal Clear s which are very "easy to drive"?
> 
> probably yes i think? power is definitely overkill for those, but we all know power isnt everything..


I doubt you would hear a difference Out of any headphones minus a few exceptions. But if it makes you happy it’s not a waste. My Nintendo switch drove the clears with no issue.


----------



## Verificateur (Apr 30, 2021)

I wanted to ask another question... and hope it’s not too silly to ask:

What would be the advantage(s) of RME ADI-2 DAC over a good DAP such as Shanling M8 (used in USB-DAC mode), *assuming that* the sole use case scenario is using the DAC/amp to provide output for a pair of headphones/IEMs?

So, basically, other functional differences aside (eg the fact that RME has hardware EQ and output to speakers, while Shanling M8 could be used a media transport) — how would the SQ stack up?

Has anyone used a DAP as a laptop/desktop DAC/amp before in USB mode?
It seems like a tempting option due to the versatility, but wonder if I am missing something or overlooking something (vs buying and using the RME for that use case)?

*PS* Used Shanling M8 for example purposes since I think it uses the same AK DAC chip that the RME has.


----------



## Verificateur

Could anyone comment on how RME ADI-2 DAC FS (2020 edition) fares compared to the Topping A90/D90 stack by chance, sound quality wise?


----------



## NickedWicked

Verificateur said:


> Could anyone comment on how RME ADI-2 DAC FS (2020 edition) fares compared to the Topping A90/D90 stack by chance, sound quality wise?


Both perform on a very similar performance level in my experience. The A90 can deliver more juice, but if you have a ADI-2 Pro in balanced mode it’s pretty close, though I haven’t noticed many headphones that need more than the 1.5W into 32Ω from the standard 1/4” output of the DAC.


----------



## lltfdaniel

I may as well post this as i have the adi 2 dac fs.

This is the most expensive piece of equipment that i own to drive my headphones and yes i use the adi 2 dac fs amp.

It is quite a transformation coming from a marantz hd dac1, the sound quality is very nice very clean the depth it just sounds professional to my ear using the denon d7200 at the moment.

I like the many options this has like eq etc.

Pretty just pretty much is my endgame but it will never stop me from seeking better equipment but for the price point of this etc it will be quite hard to beat when i say that we all have different ways of hearing and different tastes in headphones etc,

Dan


----------



## simon740 (May 29, 2021)

Hello,

may i ask if anyone uses rme adi-2 dac in speaker system?
It’s very interesting to me, but it worries me a bit because some say it sounds a little flat, 2D.

regards,
Simon


----------



## G8torbyte

simon740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> may i ask if anyone uses rme adi-2 dac in speaker system?
> It’s very interesting to me, but it worries me a bit because some say it sounds a little flat, 2D.
> ...


I use the RME's line-out XLR to my headphone amp and also concurrently run the RCA output to an A/V amplifier unit with passive tower speakers and a center channel. It sends the signal out to both simultaneously.  The signal is good from what I can tell since my A/V unit modifies the sound with it's own EQ and surround sound modes.


----------



## gikigill

Got 2 and use one for headphones and one for speakers. 

They sound as good as my bel canto or meridian audio dac.


----------



## Verificateur

Is anyone currently using the RME ADI-2 DAC with Fostex TH900 Mk2? How are you liking it, does it still sound musical?


----------



## simon740

G8torbyte​gikigill​
thank you

regards,
Simon


----------



## Moose246

Verificateur said:


> Is anyone currently using the RME ADI-2 DAC with Fostex TH900 Mk2? How are you liking it, does it still sound musical?


I do, and love the sound.


----------



## bvhme (Jun 3, 2021)

gimmeheadroom said:


> As I remember it for Windows you do need to find the USB drivers and download them no matter what.



Since I'm newly adi-ed I've found that the ADI-2-DAC functions on Windows without the downloaded driver with the current firmware.

It even functions better without the downloaded driver since automatic rate switching is disabled on it.

Edit: oops, this was explicitly about old firmware


----------



## H20Fidelity

Has anyone ever heard a difference between PC's / transports using the ADI2?

I use a Lenovo Tiny M73 PC with foobar 2000, whichever USB port I use the DAC gives off a harsh treble with my HD800S and IEMs but when I connect it to my old Samsung Galaxy Note 4 the treble is perfect and IMO the overall sound and resolution improves.

Has anyone has this problem or heard differences?

At this stage I may need to buy a laptop or second PC to test.


----------



## simon740

Hello,

I just wanna tell, that right now testing adi-2 dac fs 😊 in my speakers system.
Will hear...

regards,
Simon


----------



## godmax

H20Fidelity said:


> Has anyone ever heard a difference between PC's / transports using the ADI2?
> 
> I use a Lenovo Tiny M73 PC with foobar 2000, whichever USB port I use the DAC gives off a harsh treble with my HD800S and IEMs but when I connect it to my old Samsung Galaxy Note 4 the treble is perfect and IMO the overall sound and resolution improves.
> 
> ...


There is always the possibility that audible high frequency CPU or GPU noise of the host PC gets injected (ground loop) over the USB shielding to the external device, but to my experience the RME USB already has a very good noise rejection implementation to prevent that.

Sadly your Lenovo Tiny M73 does not have an optical output as an alternative galvanic separated connection option to the RME to test. So you could only try an USB to optical converter or external sound card with digital audio out or an galvanic USB isolator. All these options do not have a guarantee to work in any case.

I myself do use an USB isolator (Intona 7055-c) to prevent this ground loop leakage over USB (without I had audible HF noise in the headphone output of one of my devices).


----------



## H20Fidelity

godmax said:


> There is always the possibility that audible high frequency CPU or GPU noise of the host PC gets injected (ground loop) over the USB shielding to the external device, but to my experience the RME USB already has a very good noise rejection implementation to prevent that.
> 
> Sadly your Lenovo Tiny M73 does not have an optical output as an alternative galvanic separated connection option to the RME to test. So you could only try an USB to optical converter or external sound card with digital audio out or an galvanic USB isolator. All these options do not have a guarantee to work in any case.
> 
> I myself do use an USB isolator (Intona 7055-c) to prevent this ground loop leakage over USB (without I had audible HF noise in the headphone output of one of my devices).



Thanks for your comment, and provided options, you brought up something I hadn't thought of being optical out


----------



## simon740

simon740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I just wanna tell, that right now testing adi-2 dac fs 😊 in my speakers system.
> Will hear...
> ...






I like it. The sound is very good. A lot better then Topping D30 😁
But I have some question: 
I set the volume to the +7dBu and 0db volume. But I hear some crackling noises. Distortion.

My amp is Exposure 3010s2d.

Regards,
Simon


----------



## Quinto

simon740 said:


> I like it. The sound is very good. A lot better then Topping D30 😁
> But I have some question:
> I set the volume to the +7dBu and 0db volume. But I hear some crackling noises. Distortion.
> 
> ...


I had the same, turned the per-amp output back to +7dBu  -6.5 dBr (auto ref level)
I liked my RME on my main system but prefer my Topping D90 these days


----------



## Golyatx

simon740 said:


> I like it. The sound is very good. A lot better then Topping D30 😁
> But I have some question:
> I set the volume to the +7dBu and 0db volume. But I hear some crackling noises. Distortion.
> 
> ...



bass/treble on, eq on, loudness on? maybe? or just try to set it -10


----------



## simon740

Golyatx said:


> bass/treble on, eq on, loudness on? maybe? or just try to set it -10


No. All stock.


----------



## betula

simon740 said:


> I like it. The sound is very good. A lot better then Topping D30 😁
> But I have some question:
> I set the volume to the +7dBu and 0db volume. But I hear some crackling noises. Distortion.
> 
> ...


Is your Auto Ref Level enabled?


----------



## simon740

betula said:


> Is your Auto Ref Level enabled?


Yes. Its on.
Now I set this way...




For now no distortion. 

Regards,
Simon


----------



## Golyatx

simon740 said:


> Yes. Its on.
> Now I set this way...
> 
> For now no distortion.
> ...


how you like the sound?


----------



## simon740

Golyatx said:


> how you like the sound?


I like it a lot. Very precise, detailed sound. Not clinical. Good soundstage, and a lot of features. 

regards,
Simon


----------



## bvhme

I can also recommend playing with the DA filters, it's like getting a whole new DAC.


----------



## skhan007

Question: For those running the ADI-2 into a tube amp, at what output level are you setting the ADI-2? I have mine at -5 dBu, but wasn't sure if going to +1 or more was advisable. In simply using my ears, I think -5 works well, but was curious about what others use.


----------



## betula

skhan007 said:


> Question: For those running the ADI-2 into a tube amp, at what output level are you setting the ADI-2? I have mine at -5 dBu, but wasn't sure if going to +1 or more was advisable. In simply using my ears, I think -5 works well, but was curious about what others use.


It is very much amp dependent. The safest option is to let the ADI-2 choose output level by leaving 'Auto Ref. Level' on. If you want to experiment you can manually choose a level up or down from the auto selection of the DAC, but to my experience this was pretty much pointless with no gain at all. I would say leave it to RME. They know their electrons pretty well.


----------



## gugges (Jun 8, 2021)

betula said:


> It is very much amp dependent. The safest option is to let the ADI-2 choose output level by leaving 'Auto Ref. Level' on. If you want to experiment you can manually choose a level up or down from the auto selection of the DAC, but to my experience this was pretty much pointless with no gain at all. I would say leave it to RME. They know their electrons pretty well.


@skhan007 I found +7db worked best for my ears on the Mogwai SE

@betula So I am observing that for line out when I switch it to Auto Reference mode it doesn't actually change anything (via RCA out). So if I am at +1db then switch ARM on, it stays at +1db, same at +7db. Am I missing anything?

EDIT: I see that if I turn off Volume Lock that as I change the Line Out volume it adjusts the reference level voltage based on the volume.


----------



## betula

gugges said:


> @skhan007 I found +7db worked best for my ears on the Mogwai SE
> 
> @betula So I am observing that for line out when I switch it to Auto Reference mode it doesn't actually change anything (via RCA out). So if I am at +1db then switch ARM on, it stays at +1db, same at +7db. Am I missing anything?
> 
> EDIT: I see that if I turn off Volume Lock that as I change the Line Out volume it adjusts the reference level voltage based on the volume.


I doubt you miss anything. IMO it is fine either way, the only thing might change is how much you can play with the volume knob on your amp.


----------



## gugges

I just meant I didn't see what Auto Ref was doing, but added an EDIT where I can see that it does change the voltage based on where you set the RME's volume pot.

Not sure if this is just perception bias, but I find +13db to be more peaky and harsh compared to +7db at the relatively same loudness level. They are technically different output voltages so anything is possible. 🤷🏻‍♂️

@skhan007 What kind of tube amp are you using?


----------



## skhan007

gugges said:


> I just meant I didn't see what Auto Ref was doing, but added an EDIT where I can see that it does change the voltage based on where you set the RME's volume pot.
> 
> Not sure if this is just perception bias, but I find +13db to be more peaky and harsh compared to +7db at the relatively same loudness level. They are technically different output voltages so anything is possible. 🤷🏻‍♂️
> 
> @skhan007 What kind of tube amp are you using?


I'm using the Bottlehead Crack Speedball. Per the suggestions, I double-checked that my line out auto ref is indeed on. When around -25 on the volume it's at -5 dBu, but as I go towards -23 or so, it clicks to +1 dBu. I'm assuming this is the auto ref feature selecting the line out level as I adjust the ADI-2 volume?


----------



## betula

skhan007 said:


> I'm using the Bottlehead Crack Speedball. Per the suggestions, I double-checked that my line out auto ref is indeed on. When around -25 on the volume it's at -5 dBu, but as I go towards -23 or so, it clicks to +1 dBu. I'm assuming this is the auto ref feature selecting the line out level as I adjust the ADI-2 volume?


Indeed. The higher impedance headphones you have, the more volume you will need. ADI-2 increases the output level automatically for you. 
I remember, with my Arya the ADI-2 switched automatically to higher gain as I increased volume.


----------



## skhan007

betula said:


> Indeed. The higher impedance headphones you have, the more volume you will need. ADI-2 increases the output level automatically for you.
> I remember, with my Arya the ADI-2 switched automatically to higher gain as I increased volume.


Understood, thank you. Wouldn't the tube amp be doing most of the heavy lifting, however? For example, if my ADI-2 is at -25 volume/ -5dBu, I would turn up the volume on the tube amp to taste. I'm sure there is an optimal middle ground between the ADI-2 output and the level on my tube amp. Should I just be trusting my ears for this?


----------



## gugges

skhan007 said:


> Understood, thank you. Wouldn't the tube amp be doing most of the heavy lifting, however? For example, if my ADI-2 is at -25 volume/ -5dBu, I would turn up the volume on the tube amp to taste. I'm sure there is an optimal middle ground between the ADI-2 output and the level on my tube amp. Should I just be trusting my ears for this?


In my opinion, yes it is better to trust your ears on this and defer to the tube amp's volume pot. 

If you have your headphones plugged into the BHC with no music playing, when you turn the BHC's volume pot you may find a spot on the dial with less gain noise heard through your headphones. Once you find that sweet spot on the BHC's volume pot, I would adjust the volume on the RME to match that point.


----------



## skhan007

gugges said:


> In my opinion, yes it is better to trust your ears on this and defer to the tube amp's volume pot.
> 
> If you have your headphones plugged into the BHC with no music playing, when you turn the BHC's volume pot you may find a spot on the dial with less gain noise heard through your headphones. Once you find that sweet spot on the BHC's volume pot, I would adjust the volume on the RME to match that point.


Excellent advice- thank you!


----------



## betula

skhan007 said:


> Understood, thank you. Wouldn't the tube amp be doing most of the heavy lifting, however? For example, if my ADI-2 is at -25 volume/ -5dBu, I would turn up the volume on the tube amp to taste. I'm sure there is an optimal middle ground between the ADI-2 output and the level on my tube amp. Should I just be trusting my ears for this?


There is no better recipe under any circumstances than trusting your own ears.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Remember the line out is a combination of volume level plus ref level
Most home hifi gear will be happy with 2v line level so look for a combined figure of +8dbu on the RME
@skhan007 -5 + -25 calculates to a very low .024v line level not ideal for good s/n ratio
@simon740 +7 + -11 calculates to .5v also very low


----------



## skhan007

Thanks- if 2v is the target, what calculation should I use to find the right volume and dBu combination on the ADI-2?


----------



## Dogmatrix

skhan007 said:


> Thanks- if 2v is the target, what calculation should I use to find the right volume and dBu combination on the ADI-2?


2v is +8.24dbu
I would start with +7dbu ref level then adjust volume from 0 , you can go beyond +1 if you like and just back off  if you start to hear distortion .
This will give best s/n ratio


----------



## Triodemode

This may assist with the current discussion regarding noise vs volume when setting a reference level on the RME.  I have my volume set to -13dBr using unbalanced out, which allows a 10 o'clock volume setting on my tube amp for most listening.  This also correlates to a really high 116 SINAD out of the RME.


----------



## simon740

Can I ask why my adi-2 dac not recognised LG V40 as a transport? I have usb-c to usb-b cable which work with LG v40 and Topping D30. 

regards,
Simon


----------



## bvhme

Triodemode said:


> This may assist with the current discussion regarding noise vs volume when setting a reference level on the RME.  I have my volume set to -13dBr using unbalanced out, which allows a 10 o'clock volume setting on my tube amp for most listening.  This also correlates to a really high 116 SINAD out of the RME.


That graph is very helpful!


----------



## skhan007

OK, quick update: I have the ADI-2 set to +7 dBu and -19 on the volume. This enables me to put my tube amp volume at about 8 O'Clock, where 7 O'Clock is no volume on the tube amp. In other words, I'm barely using any volume on the tube amp and it's loud. Anything more (e.g. 9 O'Clock on the amp volume) is painfully loud. 

If I turn the ADI-2 volume to -20, it auto click to +1 dBu. Not sure if this is the intended result, but I'm barely using any volume on the tube amp at all with these settings. Thoughts?


----------



## Dogmatrix

When considering an appropriate output level for the RME two main issues must be considered 
A. Noise floor (caused by too low an input)
B. Clipping (caused by too high an input)
Both concern the amp and not the RME which will provide class leading performance regardless of output level
If it is possible to determine the amps "input sensitivity" that is ideal since it is a voltage level the amps designer has determined to 
1. Allow the amp to output its rated power level
2. Will be in a well designed amp roughly midway between issues A and B
In the absence of an input sensitivity number a good start is 2v rms , the level most dacs , cd players etc use as an unofficial standard
Actual standard for home / domestic is .316v nominal . This is the base level and any dynamic range is additional
If you run into problems such as @skhan007 is experiencing you can lower or attenuate the level as needed , but the lower you go the closer you get to issue A


----------



## Dogmatrix

skhan007 said:


> OK, quick update: I have the ADI-2 set to +7 dBu and -19 on the volume. This enables me to put my tube amp volume at about 8 O'Clock, where 7 O'Clock is no volume on the tube amp. In other words, I'm barely using any volume on the tube amp and it's loud. Anything more (e.g. 9 O'Clock on the amp volume) is painfully loud.
> 
> If I turn the ADI-2 volume to -20, it auto click to +1 dBu. Not sure if this is the intended result, but I'm barely using any volume on the tube amp at all with these settings. Thoughts?


In simple terms your headphone and amp are not compatible
A work around
With auto ref switched on turn the volume on the RME down until it will go no lower 
Switch on the amp and source but ensure no audio is playing
With the amp volume at its lowest put on your headphones and slowly increase the amps volume
Listen carefully for any background noise if you hear anything stop increasing the volume and back off until silence is restored leave the volume there
If no noise is encountered before reaching maximum all good just back the volume to 12 o'clock leave it there
Now with the RME still at its minimum output play your favourite track and slowly increase the output until you reach the highest volume level you are comfortable with
Name and save the setting you should now have a good useable range on the amps pot


----------



## Golyatx

I am carefuly listening too, about to receive Burson Soloist 3XP tomorow or on Monday 😇


----------



## brif

Golyatx said:


> I am carefuly listening too, about to receive Burson Soloist 3XP tomorow or on Monday 😇


Such a great combo IMO. I am still in love with mine. Highly recommend trying power amp mode on the Burson, with loudness enabled on the RME.


----------



## robm321

If we're using another amp with the Adi2 should I enable loudness?


----------



## betula

brif said:


> Such a great combo IMO. I am still in love with mine. Highly recommend trying power amp mode on the Burson, with loudness enabled on the RME.


Great combo indeed. What headphones are you using?


----------



## brif

betula said:


> Great combo indeed. What headphones are you using?


Pretty close to you. I'm running Empyrean ATM, with Arya on the stand as an alternative. Very much in love with Empyrean right now though.


----------



## brif

robm321 said:


> If we're using another amp with the Adi2 should I enable loudness?


Depends on your setup. It really does it's work at lower output levels. Definitely give it a try, see what you think.

My settings:
Bass Gain: 7
Treble Gain: 6
Low Vol Ref: -30

I also use crossFeed set at 1


----------



## Golyatx

brif said:


> Depends on your setup. It really does it's work at lower output levels. Definitely give it a try, see what you think.
> 
> My settings:
> Bass Gain: 7
> ...



Thanks. I will definitely try some of those. 
How can you describe ADI2 with and without Burson? Its realy step up in sound quality?


----------



## brif

Golyatx said:


> Thanks. I will definitely try some of those.
> How can you describe ADI2 with and without Burson? Its realy step up in sound quality?


I don't hear many of the things that others describe here. I am definitely not an audiophile, I am an older music lover with typical hearing damage for my age. That being said, I feel like the Burson is a warmer fuller sound over the ADI headphone output. But the main reason I purchased the Burson was to drive Arya. The Burson made Arya come alive for me, and when I discovered power amp mode and combined that with loudness it was another step up.


----------



## betula

brif said:


> I don't hear many of the things that others describe here. I am definitely not an audiophile, I am an older music lover with typical hearing damage for my age. That being said, I feel like the Burson is a warmer fuller sound over the ADI headphone output. But the main reason I purchased the Burson was to drive Arya. The Burson made Arya come alive for me, and when I discovered power amp mode and combined that with loudness it was another step up.


The ADI-2's loudness function is basically just a bass/treble boost. I would not mystify it much. The good thing is that RME lets you fine tune this function; adjust the level of bass and treble enhancement you desire at certain volume levels. The idea behind this is that at lower volumes the bass and treble is not as present as it is at higher volumes. Loudness was invented to compensate this loss. Also can found on older hi-fi gear.
I reduced the factory values myself, but I also use this function. It just makes the sound more fun in general to me.

Regarding the Soloist 3XP's headphone power amp mode it is what I prefer as well. In this mode Burson completely bypasses the whole volume stage, which is already a pretty good quality volume stage. But in bypass mode to me the sound becomes much cleaner, clearer, more energetic and more dynamic. The most obvious change to me is a punchier, cleaner and firmer bass response. Unfortunately this mode is only available with DAC's that have a volume control. Before enabling this function, make sure you lower volume everywhere to avoid unpleasant surprises. Also, IMO to enjoy all benefits of bypassing the amp's volume you will need a pretty good quality DAC. At least something like the ADI-2.


----------



## robm321

brif said:


> Depends on your setup. It really does it's work at lower output levels. Definitely give it a try, see what you think.
> 
> My settings:
> Bass Gain: 7
> ...



Awesome, will try these settings, thanks.


----------



## skhan007

OK, I've done a test drive with the great advice above from @Dogmatrix. The results were quite loud, so my ears have dictated that I should stay at +1 dBu, -25, and about 9 O'Clock on my tube amp. My cans are ZMF Auteur, which I know are a well-regarded match for my Bottlehead Crack Speedball amp. It's great to know that if I bring my amp to 100% with no music playing, there is no background noise or artifacts.


----------



## G8torbyte

Similar to my adjustments with the THX AAA 789 at mid-gain:


----------



## Anathema123

Not too happy with my ADI-2. I've only had it for a few days and it's quite unstable.

Everything works, but every couple of hours my audio cuts out completely. Restarting the unit fixes it, but it's not a problem a new device should be exhibiting, and I'm somewhat worried things might get worse.


----------



## betula

Anathema123 said:


> Not too happy with my ADI-2. I've only had it for a few days and it's quite unstable.
> 
> Everything works, but every couple of hours my audio cuts out completely. Restarting the unit fixes it, but it's not a problem a new device should be exhibiting, and I'm somewhat worried things might get worse.


That is quite an unusual problem. What is your input source?
My feeling is it is not the ADI-2's fault but something else.


----------



## Anathema123 (Jun 13, 2021)

betula said:


> That is quite an unusual problem. What is your input source?
> My feeling is it is not the ADI-2's fault but something else.


My computer via USB. No issue with any other USB devices and other audio output devices still work just fine when this issue occurs.
Already on the latest drivers and firmware for the ADI-2 DAC.

Edit: Can't map the occurrence to any error events in the OS. Definitely persists through an OS reboot, sadly. Will need to keep an eye on it for a while longer to see if I can pinpoint a cause.


----------



## betula

Anathema123 said:


> My computer via USB. No issue with any other USB devices and other audio output devices still work just fine when this issue occurs.
> Already on the latest drivers and firmware for the ADI-2 DAC.


Windows or Mac?

If it is Windows, have you tried to reinstall the RME software?

What exactly is happening when your _"audio cuts out completely"_?
What audio player do you use on your computer? Is it just your music player cutting out or all computer audio?


----------



## captblaze

Anathema123 said:


> Not too happy with my ADI-2. I've only had it for a few days and it's quite unstable.
> 
> Everything works, but every couple of hours my audio cuts out completely. Restarting the unit fixes it, but it's not a problem a new device should be exhibiting, and I'm somewhat worried things might get worse.


can you try it connected to a different PC, or even mobile device to rule out your PC as the culprit and not the ADI-2 DAC?


----------



## Golyatx

Anathema123 said:


> Not too happy with my ADI-2. I've only had it for a few days and it's quite unstable.
> 
> Everything works, but every couple of hours my audio cuts out completely. Restarting the unit fixes it, but it's not a problem a new device should be exhibiting, and I'm somewhat worried things might get worse.


 try writing on ofocial rme forum, they may help you


----------



## gugges

I have seen macOS issues when trying to use both Tidal (with the RME in Exclusive Mode) and Qobuz simultaneously. It totally hoses the sound driver and I have to restart the computer. Not the RMEs fault in this case. @anathema are you doing something similar?


----------



## Anathema123

Thanks for all your feedback. I'm not yet convinced the ADI-2 is at fault. I've been using it for 10+ hours already today with no issues whatsoever. Running it from the same PC as a source, but while working on another workstation.

The only differing variable I can think of is that the other times the issue occurred was when I was playing video games, so perhaps it's some partial graphics driver related crash. 
Can't find any events pointing towards graphics driver crashes, and the games continued without a hitch, so I can't be certain, but I'd say it's a likely candidate.
Fingers crossed, in any case. If it happens again the next troubleshooting step will indeed be to see if I can reproduce the issue using another device as the source.

On a more positive note: other than this problem (for which the ADI-2 may well not be to blame) I've got nothing but positive things to say about it.
Still need to find some time to do a deep dive into all the configuration settings. The pEQ works very well, and will take many hours of fiddling before I decide how to tweak it (or leave it at default!). The programmable EQ settings are a great feature as not all genres benefit from the same sound signature and I - like most of us I'm sure - have somewhat eclectic taste in music.

Audeze LCD-Xs have just arrived today and they seem to be powered beautifully by its amp component as well. Don't have a sensible point of reference though since the only other non entry level amplifier I have is an OTL tube amplifier (Feliks-Audio Elise), which is not exactly the best match for low impedance sensitive headphones like the X.

All in all; My outlook is much more positive after a full day of stability and that's truly my one and only complaint.


----------



## H20Fidelity

Does your computer have optical out?

I'd been using my RME-ADI 2 via USB with a Lenovo Tiny PC, no matter what USB port I used the treble was harsh and there was a metallic shimmer to the sound (but no drop outs), but when I used my old Galaxy Note 5 with an OTG cable the problem was absent. Because my little PC doesn't have optical out I purchased this USB to optical / coax converter, it completely solved the problem, now I run the RME via optical entirely, and IMO the sound better than USB anyway.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/392866127540


----------



## Slaphead

H20Fidelity said:


> Does your computer have optical out?
> 
> I'd been using my RME-ADI 2 via USB with a Lenovo Tiny PC, no matter what USB port I used the treble was harsh and there was a metallic shimmer to the sound (but no drop outs), but when I used my old Galaxy Note 5 with an OTG cable the problem was absent. Because my little PC doesn't have optical out I purchased this USB to optical / coax converter, it completely solved the problem, now I run the RME via optical entirely, and IMO the sound better than USB anyway.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/392866127540


Yeah, within a PC you've got a ton of stuff that's creating HF interference. PSUs VRMs CPUs GPUs all create spurious HF interference, and a lot of this ends up being transmitted through a USB (or another electrically conductive cable such non optical S/PDIF) and that permeates through whatever DAC you are using thus leading to the glare that can be heard. Even though the RME is very good at signal rejection it will succumb to excessive amounts of HF interference

However this is somewhat dependent on the quality of your hardware. If you use a cheapass PC then you're more likely to have a problem than if you got something a bit more pricey. That said there's variability even at the high end of the PC market.

So, for computer audio it often makes sense to use the optical output, or use an optical converter to get the best out the DAC.


----------



## simon740

Hello,

which transport do you guys use with adi-2 dac? Now I have diy Linux player ( Igel 4210lx) with mpd client. 

regards
Simon


----------



## Forsaked

simon740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> which transport do you guys use with adi-2 dac? Now I have diy Linux player ( Igel 4210lx) with mpd client.
> 
> ...



Laptop with Roon or RasPi 4 with RoPiee as Roon Client.


----------



## Anathema123

Slaphead said:


> Yeah, within a PC you've got a ton of stuff that's creating HF interference. PSUs VRMs CPUs GPUs all create spurious HF interference, and a lot of this ends up being transmitted through a USB (or another electrically conductive cable such non optical S/PDIF) and that permeates through whatever DAC you are using thus leading to the glare that can be heard. Even though the RME is very good at signal rejection it will succumb to excessive amounts of HF interference
> 
> However this is somewhat dependent on the quality of your hardware. If you use a cheapass PC then you're more likely to have a problem than if you got something a bit more pricey. That said there's variability even at the high end of the PC market.
> 
> So, for computer audio it often makes sense to use the optical output, or use an optical converter to get the best out the DAC.



I don't have an optical out, only S/PDIF as an alternative to USB. From what I understand the ADI-2's USB implementation should be on par with S/PDIF, and I lack the needed cable to try it out anyway. For what it's worth, I can't hear any interference using USB. It probably helps that I have a high end motherboard (Asus C VIII Dark Hero), so its USB components and implementation should be above average, at least.

As for transport; Foobar2k for now. I have an SSD on the way for my DS918+ NAS which I'll use as a Roon Core.

And on the subject of stability: Still zero issues with the ADI-2. I think it's safe at this point to blame the issues I experienced on the game causing a partial driver crash rather than any issues with the ADI-2 DAC itself. Total non-issue as I don't use my good headphones nor care much for audio quality while gaming anyway.


----------



## Slaphead

Anathema123 said:


> *I don't have an optical out, only S/PDIF* as an alternative to USB. From what I understand the ADI-2's USB implementation should be on par with S/PDIF, and I lack the needed cable to try it out anyway. For what it's worth, I can't hear any interference using USB. It probably helps that I have a high end motherboard (Asus C VIII Dark Hero), so its USB components and implementation should be above average, at least.
> 
> As for transport; Foobar2k for now. I have an SSD on the way for my DS918+ NAS which I'll use as a Roon Core.
> 
> And on the subject of stability: Still zero issues with the ADI-2. I think it's safe at this point to blame the issues I experienced on the game causing a partial driver crash rather than any issues with the ADI-2 DAC itself. Total non-issue as I don't use my good headphones nor care much for audio quality while gaming anyway.


According to the specs as listed here your motherboard has optical out.

Ok, S/PDIF stands for Sony/Philips Digital InterFace. S/PDIF is a protocol which works over both coaxial cable and optical cable. The optical out is often referred to as TOSLINK (Toshiba Link) however the protocol layer is S/PDIF.

You do indeed have an S/PDIF TOSLINK output on that board - it's right next to the "Rear" 3.5mm output.

That said it appears that that board has some pretty good shielding (Audio Line Shielding in ASUS' words) which should make USB perfectly viable and any difference between that and optical is likely to be negligible. Though I'm not going to suggest that you don't try the optical interface.


----------



## simon740

What a bass 😳😁
Adi-2 dac fs with Moondrop Aria iem


----------



## Anathema123

Slaphead said:


> According to the specs as listed here your motherboard has optical out.
> 
> Ok, S/PDIF stands for Sony/Philips Digital InterFace. S/PDIF is a protocol which works over both coaxial cable and optical cable. The optical out is often referred to as TOSLINK (Toshiba Link) however the protocol layer is S/PDIF.
> 
> ...



Thank you for correcting my misconceptions!

I'll add a cable to my order the next time I get something else, if for nothing else just to sate my curiosity and try it out.


----------



## Slaphead

Anathema123 said:


> Thank you for correcting my misconceptions!
> 
> I'll add a cable to my order the next time I get something else, if for nothing else just to sate my curiosity and try it out.


I honestly don't think you'll find much difference if any - it is a quality motherboard with features to reduce, if not eliminate, that HF interference. Also consider that with optical S/PDIF you'll be limited to 24/192 in an absolute best case scenario, and that's with some special gear. 16/48 is probably the limit with a standard cheap cable, but your mileage may vary.


----------



## CK Moustache

simon740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> which transport do you guys use with adi-2 dac? Now I have diy Linux player ( Igel 4210lx) with mpd client.
> 
> ...



Mainly (nearly exclusively) my Pioneer PD-S 701.


----------



## alexdemaet

Which settings should I apply on a RME Adi 2 pro when I connect it to a Cayin CS 55A integrated amp unbalanced?

Specs are:
Power Output: 40W+40W (Ultra-Linear)
Frequency Response: 5Hz - 48kHz (-3dB)
THD: 1.0% (at 1kHz)
S/N Ratio (Line/Phono): 92dB/68dB
Line Input Sensitivity: 280mV
Line Input Impedance: 100kΩ

Here is an example: 
"
If you are going to use YAMAHA AS-2100's "Main Input", there is nothing special to watch out, except that you should set ADI 2 DAC's:
• Reference level to +7dBu.
• Auto Reference Level to: Off.


YAMAHA AS-2100 main i/o's level is specified as *1V RMS*.
ADI-2 DAC's Reference Level at +7dBu = +1dBu at the Cinch output, as Cinch's level is 6dB below the XLR's.
There is an additional range of 2.5dB on ADI 2 DAC's volume control.
So you end up with 7 - 6 + 2.5 = +3.5dBu = *1.16V RMS*.
"


----------



## Dogmatrix

alexdemaet said:


> Which settings should I apply on a RME Adi 2 pro when I connect it to a Cayin CS 55A integrated amp unbalanced?
> 
> Specs are:
> Power Output: 40W+40W (Ultra-Linear)
> ...


For .280v -9dBu


----------



## alexdemaet

Dogmatrix said:


> For .280v -9dBu


Thanks


----------



## simon740

Im very satisfy with adi-2 dac


----------



## robm321

Very nice!


----------



## simon740

robm321 said:


> Very nice!


Thank you


----------



## gikigill

simon740 said:


> Im very satisfy with adi-2 dac



The little beast behind the monsters!! 

Very nice picture and set up.


----------



## simon740

gikigill said:


> The little beast behind the monsters!!
> 
> Very nice picture and set up.


:-D
Thank you


----------



## Tuneslover

Does it matter which way around the power plug of the ADI-2 is inserted into your wall socket, power conditioner or whatever you use?  Mine can be inserted either way around.  It's difficult to ascertain if one way is better sounding than the other but unless it's my imagination one way does appear to have slightly better bass.


----------



## dougq

Tuneslover said:


> Does it matter which way around the power plug of the ADI-2 is inserted into your wall socket, power conditioner or whatever you use?  Mine can be inserted either way around.  It's difficult to ascertain if one way is better sounding than the other but unless it's my imagination one way does appear to have slightly better bass.


How would that technically impact bass?


----------



## vonspanky

I currently have a Zen Dac/Can stack which I do like, but would replacing these with ADI-2 provide a meaningful upgrade to the sound?
I love the idea of being able to eq on the device and save as presets for different headphones. But is the lack of a balanced headphone socket an issue?


----------



## dougq

vonspanky said:


> I currently have a Zen Dac/Can stack which I do like, but would replacing these with ADI-2 provide a meaningful upgrade to the sound?
> I love the idea of being able to eq on the device and save as presets for different headphones. But is the lack of a balanced headphone socket an issue?


You likely wont hear much of a difference at stock, but you can tune it to more of your preference so in that way yes it will probably sound better.


----------



## simon740

In the past I have Rega DAC- R, Naim dac V1, Aune S16, Nuprime dac 9, Topping D30. Now I have this RME Adi-2 dac. For me is better. And I really like, that can EQ the sound. For special songs or albums. 

regards,
Simon


----------



## Bazaar

vonspanky said:


> I currently have a Zen Dac/Can stack which I do like, but would replacing these with ADI-2 provide a meaningful upgrade to the sound?
> I love the idea of being able to eq on the device and save as presets for different headphones. But is the lack of a balanced headphone socket an issue?


I also migrated to both the ADI-2 and Burson. I've only listened to it a little w/out the Burson. As mentioned, w/ the custom profile for my 800S in, the ADI-2 sounds good; it sounds better to my ears through the Burson, however.


----------



## Tuneslover

dougq said:


> How would that technically impact bass?


No idea.  Just sounds different in a better way.


----------



## doctorstrobe

vonspanky said:


> I currently have a Zen Dac/Can stack which I do like, but would replacing these with ADI-2 provide a meaningful upgrade to the sound?
> I love the idea of being able to eq on the device and save as presets for different headphones. But is the lack of a balanced headphone socket an issue?



I had the same zen stack but sold the zen dac after I bought the ADI-2. I kept the zen can which I occasionally use with the xlr out of the ADI. With my Sundara I can’t say for sure which one is better. I do like the zen can 3D effect so it’s nice to have.


----------



## Tuneslover

Tuneslover said:


> No idea.  Just sounds different in a better way.


Try it for yourself if you're interested in hearing if there is a difference.


----------



## dougq

Tuneslover said:


> Try it for yourself if you're interested in hearing if there is a difference.


I’m not sure how I could properly test it. Hearing memory isn’t reliable so by the time I’d switch I would have already forgotten how it sounded previously in the micro details. There’s no way I’d trust mine it anyone’s memory to know a difference


----------



## UMN

I always had my RME working as a preamp for my tube Woo WA6. 
I listen primarily to jazz and classical. 
Just tried listening to classical with my Hifiman HE5XX plugged directly into the RME and am loving it. For Jazz I still like listening thru the tube Woo WA6. 
Does anyone else use there set up differently depending on the genre of music they are listening to?


----------



## noway (Jul 6, 2021)

I need a DAC on my desk and the nearest outlet is about 15'-20' away.  Checking out RME DACs as a possible upgrade but I don't think the cord/brick on the RME would be long enough and I don't want to use an extension cord or another power bar.  Are there any replacement cords/brick that would plug into the back of the RME and reach the wall outlet? Currently using a Matrix Mini-i Pro 2S which has an internal power supply with IEC connector on the back of the DAC so I can use aftermarket cords as long as I want.


----------



## greyscale75

Move yur desk!!!


----------



## noway

greyscale75 said:


> Move yur desk!!!


I can't.  The desk/chair and speakers are place to maximize sound quality in the room so they aren't moving.


----------



## Slaphead

noway said:


> I can't.  The desk/chair and speakers are place to maximize sound quality in the room so they aren't moving.


Then get a sparky in to install a new mains socket.

Besides, what don't you like about an extension cable? It's the obvious solution.


----------



## noway (Jul 6, 2021)

Slaphead said:


> Then get a sparky in to install a new mains socket.
> 
> Besides, what don't you like about an extension cable? It's the obvious solution.


Yeah the electrician would work but might be more expensive than a longer cord.  I already have a power bar feeding 2 active speakers and DAC...I would need to have RME cord-->extension cord-->power bar with cord-->outlet if I did the extension cord thing...which would be a bit convoluted.  I would rather one cord direct to outlet or one cord direct to existing power bar but not add any more extensions when I really just need a longer cord.

I haven't been able to see a closeup of the RME cord on any YT videos so not sure if part of the RME cord can be unplugged and replaced by a longer version.  Never thought I'd have so much trouble investigating a longer cord option but I guess that's what happens when the power supply is outside the unit and a regular IEC connector cord cannot be used.


----------



## Dogmatrix

noway said:


> Yeah the electrician would work but might be more expensive than a longer cord.  I already have a power bar feeding 2 active speakers and DAC...I would need to have RME cord-->extension cord-->power bar with cord-->outlet if I did the extension cord thing...which would be a bit convoluted.  I would rather one cord direct to outlet or one cord direct to existing power bar but not add any more extensions when I really just need a longer cord.
> 
> I haven't been able to see a closeup of the RME cord on any YT videos so not sure if part of the RME cord can be unplugged and replaced by a longer version.  Never thought I'd have so much trouble investigating a longer cord option but I guess that's what happens when the power supply is outside the unit and a regular IEC connector cord cannot be used.


Cord on my unit has fig 8 type connection like this one


----------



## Cevisi

Type inline power plug into amazon and get a 5 meter one and you are good to go


----------



## noway

Thanks Dogmatrix and Cevisi.  Looks like this will be an easy fix then.


----------



## Forsaked

Does anyone has the new C version with the ESS ES9028Q2M of this DAC?

https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html (scroll down to improving DA)
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=172895#p172895


----------



## Verificateur (Jul 8, 2021)

Well, looks like they have officially ran out of AKM chipsets…

Curious which implementation / iteration ends up being considered “better” (AK4493 vs ES9028Q2M — a *mobile chipeset*?), despite RME’s claim of “no significant changes”.

_The updated ADI-2 DAC uses ESS's ES9028Q2M in a special circuit variant developed by RME engineers that allows the chip to perform at its best. With noise levels of 123 dBA, distortion less than -120 dB, or THD+N of -116 dB, the device delivers outstanding measured values, and allows the IEM output to reach a sensational low noise level of -121 dBu. In addition, there is +2.5 dB of digital headroom, so that high intersample peaks do not produce any audible distortion. The reserve in volume setting results in a still undistorted analog output signal even at a volume setting of +2.5 dB.

There are no significant changes in operation, features and behavior compared to the predecessor, which is why neither appearance nor name have changed. All differences are explained in the detailed manual of the ADI-2 DAC._

Source_: https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html_


----------



## Slaphead

Verificateur said:


> Well, looks like they have officially ran out of AKM chipsets…
> 
> Curious which implementation / iteration ends up being considered “better” (AK4493 vs ES9028Q2M — a *mobile chipeset*?), despite RME’s claim of “no significant changes”.
> 
> ...


Well there was no audible difference between the original version using the AK4490 (which I have) and the second version using the AK4493, the only difference being that there was a new digital filter and that the measurements were very slightly better.

If anything I would expect this new variant to alter the perceived sound the most as ESS DACs tend to be quite forward and a touch aggressive, with the AKM DACs being softer and more laid back - to my ears that is.

That said it all depends on the implementation as the same DAC can sound significantly different between manufacturers and even between models of the same provenance.


----------



## enb141

Hi guys, this is a long thread, sorry if this has been asked before.

I was thinking to use the RME HDSPe AIO Pro, as DAC/Preamp/Headphone amp instead of the ADI-2, I know the ADI-2 plays higher than 24/192 but to be honest, I don't have any audio higher than that, and if I need it, then I still have my Sound Blaster AE-9.

So back to the question, do you think a RME HDSPe AIO Pro could be used as the ADI-2?


----------



## Slaphead

enb141 said:


> Hi guys, this is a long thread, sorry if this has been asked before.
> 
> I was thinking to use the RME HDSPe AIO Pro, as DAC/Preamp/Headphone amp instead of the ADI-2, I know the ADI-2 plays higher than 24/192 but to be honest, I don't have any audio higher than that, and if I need it, then I still have my Sound Blaster AE-9.
> 
> So back to the question, do you think a RME HDSPe AIO Pro could be used as the ADI-2?


Well, I guess so, but that really is a product designed to be used in a production environment. Also you'll be pretty much on your own in terms of configuration and getting it to do what you want - it's not really a plug and play product in that it's intended for audio professionals who already know what they need and how to achieve it. You'll also be dealing with a breakout cable which only comes as unbalanced as standard, if you need balanced connections then you'll also need the optional breakout cable. And breakout cables are messy to be honest

That said if your only intention is to use it as a DAC/Preamp/Headphone amp then it'll almost certainly do the job with a bit of fiddling, but I can't help thinking there may be something more appropriate for HiFi listening. The ADI-2 is good, very good, but it's not the only horse in the race.


----------



## enb141

Slaphead said:


> Well, I guess so, but that really is a product designed to be used in a production environment. Also you'll be pretty much on your own in terms of configuration and getting it to do what you want - it's not really a plug and play product in that it's intended for audio professionals who already know what they need and how to achieve it. You'll also be dealing with a breakout cable which only comes as unbalanced as standard, if you need balanced connections then you'll also need the optional breakout cable. And breakout cables are messy to be honest
> 
> That said if your only intention is to use it as a DAC/Preamp/Headphone amp then it'll almost certainly do the job with a bit of fiddling, but I can't help thinking there may be something more appropriate for HiFi listening. The ADI-2 is good, very good, but it's not the only horse in the race.



You are right,  (I'm right now at page 47 of this thread), before I asked the question, I didn't know the equalizer and other features that this device has.

I'm still reading this thread but, for equalizer I use JRiver so I don't have that problem right now with my sound blaster AE-9, that card has build in equalizer as well but I only use that JRiver has.

The other reason why I'm thinking of the AIO Pro is that is an internal sound card, so no more USB turn offs and ons (I hate them that "teen too room" sound) so I'm not sure if the ADI gets removed from windows audio device list (very likely to me) when the device is turned off.


As for the breakout cable, for now I just need Balanced ins/outs, my current power amp, and my next (hopefully) power amp (the burson audio funk) don't have balanced inputs so for now I'm fine, I know those cables are not so nice but do the job.

Besides, I also would like to use a good input interface, so the AIO has inputs, the ADI-2 doesn't, the pro has, but costs twice (133% more than the AIO Pro).

I'm not yet decided if getting the ADI-2 or the AIO pro yet, but I need to take into account all pros and cons.


----------



## Slaphead

enb141 said:


> You are right,  (I'm right now at page 47 of this thread), before I asked the question, I didn't know the equalizer and other features that this device has.
> 
> I'm still reading this thread but, for equalizer I use JRiver so I don't have that problem right now with my sound blaster AE-9, that card has build in equalizer as well but I only use that JRiver has.
> 
> ...


To be honest, before I answered your question I simply took a good look at the specs and use case on the RME website. I've not actually used the device, but you have got me interested in it anyway,

I would actually recommend that you take your questions to the RME forum - https://forum.rme-audio.de/ There are far more knowledgeable people there, including the actual engineers who designed the card, that will be able to answer your questions - just be prepared for some German directness in some cases


----------



## KDS315

Nothing wrong with “German directness” - better than endlessly “beating around the bush” and not getting it done 😉


----------



## Slaphead

KDS315 said:


> Nothing wrong with “German directness” - better than endlessly “beating around the bush” and not getting it done 😉


Das stimmt


----------



## Tennessee

Who also thinks, that SD LD filter sounds the best? Timing, attack, decay, bass punch, trebles sparkling… all just fits just perfectly together.
Moreover: loudness - absolutely great function, here properly executed.


----------



## Slaphead

Tennessee said:


> Who also thinks, that SD LD filter sounds the best? Timing, attack, decay, bass punch, trebles sparkling… all just fits just perfectly together.
> Moreover: loudness - absolutely great function, here properly executed.


Honestly I could never tell the difference between any of the filters, so in the end I just left it on the default filter.


----------



## Verificateur

This may be a silly question, but do these digital filters and EQ get applied by the DAC section, so when RME is connected to another AMP by line out, the filter/EQ settings carry over to the external headphone amp’s output?


----------



## CK Moustache

Verificateur said:


> This may be a silly question, but do these digital filters and EQ get applied by the DAC section, so when RME is connected to another AMP by line out, the filter/EQ settings carry over to the external headphone amp’s output?



Yes, they're applied by the DAC section and carried over to the external analogue device.


----------



## KDS315

Verificateur said:


> This may be a silly question, but do these digital filters and EQ get applied by the DAC section, so when RME is connected to another AMP by line out, the filter/EQ settings carry over to the external headphone amp’s output?


No, the “settings” are of course not “carried over” but the effect of them on the analog output are...


----------



## RPGWiZaRD (Jul 20, 2021)

Can you use this DAC with any surround sound APIs in Windows? Ie. does it support for example 24bit 48.000Hz operation that for example Dolby Atmos for headphones forces itself to. I'd really like to have a "do-it-all" source for my hobby mastering/headphone listening/PC gaming needs but I don't enjoy the positional cues from plain "stereo" enough to wanna use that for gaming. I think Dolby Atmos for Headphones does the best job in preserving audio quality (not really noticeable as long as you don't enable any EQing) while giving a fairly good enhanced surround sound in games above plain stereo setting.


----------



## Tano

Hi guys, new and quite happy RME ADI 2 DAC owner. I got a question, I found some info about this and I've read the manual but it's still confusing for me. Im pretty much a low volume listener and my normal levels are between -50/-45 (with auto reference volume on) . So I find the loudness function really useful and wanna get the max out of it.

Can anyone tell me what loudness parameters should I use, please? Im currently using 7,5 db bass 6,5 db treble boost with a Low vol. Ref of -35db. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Slaphead (Jul 25, 2021)

Tano said:


> Hi guys, new and quite happy RME ADI 2 DAC owner. I got a question, I found some info about this and I've read the manual but it's still confusing for me. Im pretty much a low volume listener and my normal levels are between -50/-45 (with auto reference volume on) . So I find the loudness function really useful and wanna get the max out of it.
> 
> *Can anyone tell me what loudness parameters should I use, please?* Im currently using 7,5 db bass 6,5 db treble boost with a Low vol. Ref of -35db.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Whichever settings suit your ears. Once you start applying EQ as an end user, which is effectively what the loudness setting is, it's purely down to your subjective choice. There's no right, and there's no wrong.


----------



## Tano

Slaphead said:


> Whichever settings suit your ears. Once you start applying EQ as an end user, which is effectively what the loudness setting is, it's purely down to your subjective choice. There's no right, and there's no wrong.


Thanks, that's what I did, I finally settled at 50 low vol ref


----------



## Beatreg

Does anyone get a faint hissing out of the headphone output of the RME when it’s near max? Found this kinda strange.


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

New Updates Friends.
Mac OS Flash Update Tool for MADIface XT/USB/Pro, OctaMic XTC, ADI-2 Pro Series & DAC, Digiface USB/Dante, UFX II

2021-08-02

fut_madiface_mac.zip


----------



## Matias

Link
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=33593


----------



## BaltColts

Hello everyone, can anyone recommend settings for an Audeze LCD-i4? Thanks.


----------



## Bazaar

Have you looked at the settings here, especially the Oratory1990 ones?


----------



## KDS315

BaltColts said:


> Hello everyone, can anyone recommend settings for an Audeze LCD-i4? Thanks.


If you are using ROON, their DSP menu has a whole set for Audeze phones included!!


----------



## BaltColts

Thanks for the comments, so far. I just received the RME ADI-2 DAC FS recently and don't have ROON. I just wondered if someone had something already setup that worked for them. I will try to work through the information that Bazaar suggested.


----------



## BaltColts

If I did a ROON trial, would I be able to keep the settings?


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 6, 2021)

BaltColts said:


> If I did a ROON trial, would I be able to keep the settings?


Yes, if you activate the license the settings woll remain.

I had the same situation, wanted to do all in the RME ADI-2 DAC, but it only has 5 EQ bands, not enough to do a good EQ for headphones.

with ROON it is a breeze!!


----------



## BaltColts

So, are you saying that it will only stay active as long as I have an active ROON account? If I only sign up for a month, would I then lose it? Thanks for your help for my bad questions.


----------



## vonspanky

dougq said:


> You likely wont hear much of a difference at stock, but you can tune it to more of your preference so in that way yes it will probably sound better.



I did get the ADI-2 in the end. This is the latest version. Out of the box with default settings and the latest firmware it does sound noticeably different to the ifi Zen stack and iDSD Micro Signature. I wouldn’t say better, just different. I would say more neutral, less forward and punchy. The signature has more sound stage to my ears.

My use case is Tidal (iMac 27) via USB on Grado Hemp, Fostex TH900mk2 and Beyer T5p gen2. MQA tracks are rendered on Tidal but I’m seeing the higher bit rate on the ADI-2 so all good.

Ill be playing with the filters and Eq in the coming days.


----------



## KDS315

BaltColts said:


> So, are you saying that it will only stay active as long as I have an active ROON account? If I only sign up for a month, would I then lose it? Thanks for your help for my bad questions.


You cannot just do one month and continue for free! It is a one-way-street with ROON. Sign up and pay monthly or yearly (cheaper) or lifetime (expensive). If you don’t continue to pay, ROON stops working...


----------



## CaptainFantastic

vonspanky said:


> I did get the ADI-2 in the end. This is the latest version. Out of the box with default settings and the latest firmware it does sound noticeably different to the ifi Zen stack and iDSD Micro Signature. I wouldn’t say better, just different. I would say more neutral, less forward and punchy. The signature has more sound stage to my ears.
> 
> My use case is Tidal (iMac 27) via USB on Grado Hemp, Fostex TH900mk2 and Beyer T5p gen2. MQA tracks are rendered on Tidal but I’m seeing the higher bit rate on the ADI-2 so all good.
> 
> Ill be playing with the filters and Eq in the coming days.



Make sure you upgrade to the latest firmware, just released. Apparently it fixes some issues with the new Sabre DAC chip they have been forced to switch to in the new units.


----------



## Slaphead (Aug 7, 2021)

KDS315 said:


> Yes, if you activate the license the settings woll remain.
> 
> I had the same situation, wanted to do all in the RME ADI-2 DAC, *but it only has 5 EQ bands*, *not enough to do a good EQ for headphones.*
> 
> with ROON it is a breeze!!


How many PEQ bands do you honestly need? if you were talking about the old GEQ with a fixed Q and F then yeah 5 bands would be awkward, but with a PEQ you can adjust these to your needs.

If you really need more than 5 PEQ bands then something is either very wrong with the source material, headphones, or ability to use EQ


----------



## iamcustomer

Is there way to turn off xlr or rca line out on this unit? Thanks!


----------



## Forsaked

iamcustomer said:


> Is there way to turn off xlr or rca line out on this unit? Thanks!


If you plug in Headphone/IEM into the RME, they are off.


----------



## iamcustomer

Forsaked said:


> If you plug in Headphone/IEM into the RME, they are off.


Thanks. I think we can only switch between phone, iem and lineout. I have a speaker using XLR and an amp using RCA. I have to power off my speaker when I want to use my amp. It will be great if we can switch between two line outs.


----------



## CK Moustache

iamcustomer said:


> Thanks. I think we can only switch between phone, iem and lineout. I have a speaker using XLR and an amp using RCA. I have to power off my speaker when I want to use my amp. It will be great if we can switch between two line outs.



Unfortunately that's not possible (if I recall correctly, RME even addressed this topic when a similar question came up on their own forum website and said that it's technically impossible).


----------



## Biscuit343

Do you guys think it's worth to upgrade to the Pro version? I want to utilize the optical output so I can transmit LDAC from my FiiO BTA30. I can't find cheaper solutions (that I at least know of).


----------



## CK Moustache

Biscuit343 said:


> Do you guys think it's worth to upgrade to the Pro version? I want to utilize the optical output so I can transmit LDAC from my FiiO BTA30. I can't find cheaper solutions (that I at least know of).



Unless you need the Pro's additional features and inputs/outputs, I really don't see any reason for that.


----------



## iamcustomer

CK Moustache said:


> Unfortunately that's not possible (if I recall correctly, RME even addressed this topic when a similar question came up on their own forum website and said that it's technically impossible).


Thanks. I searched around and did not find a solution. I think I have to turn off my speaker when I want to use the connected amp.


----------



## vonspanky

Well after a bit of a (frustrating) learning curve I'm really digging the EQ ability of the ADI-2 and setting to different presets. The stock sound was decent but I wasn't blown away, to be honest. On the TH900mk2's by bumping up mids and upper mids a tad adds air and vocal presence that were a tad recessed. On the Grado Hemps nudging the lower bass adds oomph - although I can't seem to emulate the Xbass function on the Zen Can or iDSD exactly.  This is the USP for the ADI-2 for me. The ability to tweak the sound and directly compare it to previously saved EQs is very useful. 

I would love a software option that you could download EQs to the unit from mac/pc.


----------



## brif

vonspanky said:


> Well after a bit of a (frustrating) learning curve I'm really digging the EQ ability of the ADI-2 and setting to different presets. The stock sound was decent but I wasn't blown away, to be honest. On the TH900mk2's by bumping up mids and upper mids a tad adds air and vocal presence that were a tad recessed. On the Grado Hemps nudging the lower bass adds oomph - although I can't seem to emulate the Xbass function on the Zen Can or iDSD exactly.  This is the USP for the ADI-2 for me. The ability to tweak the sound and directly compare it to previously saved EQs is very useful.
> 
> I would love a software option that you could download EQs to the unit from mac/pc.



I was able to get closest to bass boost by using loudness in conjunction with a couple db bass shelf.  The loudness is most effective when using the RME as a preamp, or using the built in amp.  If you are feeding an external amp at or around 0dB, loudness doesn't really do much.


----------



## Slaphead

brif said:


> I was able to get closest to bass boost by using loudness in conjunction with a couple db bass shelf.  The loudness is most effective when using the RME as a preamp, or using the built in amp.  *If you are feeding an external amp at or around 0dB, loudness doesn't really do much.*


Well I wouldn't expect it to. If the output of the RME is at 0db then there's no headroom left for the loudness function to do it's stuff. If you reduce the ADI's output to -20db, increase the Amp's output by 20db, and then use the loudness function then you'll probably get a result.


----------



## Soundizer (Aug 19, 2021)

Does a new RME ADI 2 FS require a firmware update. That’s very complicated. Was hoping to buy and simply use without firmware update fuss.

anyone use Focal Clear with RME ADI 2 FS?


----------



## gikigill

Yup, the RME folks add features and it's relatively simple to update.

You could just skip the updates.


----------



## Forsaked

Soundizer said:


> Does a new RME ADI 2 FS require a firmware update. That’s very complicated. Was hoping to buy and simply use without firmware update fuss.
> 
> anyone use Focal Clear with RME ADI 2 FS?


I did since recently, works like charm.
The RME update is just execution a little program and then restarting it.


----------



## Soundizer

Forsaked said:


> I did since recently, works like charm.
> The RME update is just execution a little program and then restarting it.


You have to download the correct software. There are 2. What if u already have the right firmware? How can you tell which version you have? Depends on DAC right - AKM or SABRE?

Complicated


----------



## Forsaked

Soundizer said:


> You have to download the correct software. There are 2. What if u already have the right firmware? How can you tell which version you have? Depends on DAC right - AKM or SABRE?
> 
> Complicated


There is only one, the other one is the ASIO driver.
Just take the latest one from the downloads section and you are good to go.
Its supports all 3 variations of the DAC.
Also the software tells you if you have the latest version.


----------



## Golyatx

Soundizer said:


> Does a new RME ADI 2 FS require a firmware update. That’s very complicated. Was hoping to buy and simply use without firmware update fuss.
> 
> anyone use Focal Clear with RME ADI 2 FS?


yes, I had it. 
add +2,5db 105hz low shelf and -2db 2khz peak, its beautiful.


----------



## Soundizer

Forsaked said:


> There is only one, the other one is the ASIO driver.
> Just take the latest one from the downloads section and you are good to go.
> Its supports all 3 variations of the DAC.
> Also the software tells you if you have the latest version.


Thank you


----------



## Soundizer

Golyatx said:


> yes, I had it.
> add +2,5db 105hz low shelf and -2db 2khz peak, its beautiful.


Any filter choice such as NOS with FocalClear?


----------



## Soundizer

What have I done!!!

i just ordered RME-ADI2 FS. Arriving Monday. £815 inc tax.


----------



## Golyatx

Soundizer said:


> Any filter choice such as NOS with FocalClear?


I had SD Sharp, but you can have whatever you want, there isnt any hearable differences.


----------



## Matias

Soundizer said:


> My impression is this is not a Consumer friendly product as lacks decent support from RME. Almost non existent.


What?? The manual is the best there is, they have instructional videos on YouTube, you have their support answering your e-mail, they have the RME Forums where their news is shared and commented by staff, including the owner Matthias Carstens.... What more do you want?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Soundizer said:


> My impression is this is not a Consumer friendly product as lacks decent support from RME. Almost non existent.



Are you talking about the RME ADI-2 DAC FS? They have one of the lengthiest, most detailed, clearly written manuals. They have loads of videos online (2 versions each split in multiple episodes). They have a dedicated forum where the company answers all questions. You must be talking about another product, sorry for misreading.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Matias said:


> What?? The manual is the best there is, they have instructional videos on YouTube, you have their support answering your e-mail, they have the RME Forums where their news is shared and commented by staff, including the owner Matthias Carstens.... What more do you want?



Ha, we essentially wrote the same thing at the same time.


----------



## Soundizer (Aug 21, 2021)

.


----------



## hillbilly559

I am waiting for my delivery of the ADI 2, so I have not had a chance to read the manual yet. 

What I was wondering is if I can have both of the outputs connected at the same time?
I want to connect the XLR to a Woo WA22, and the RCA to a Kingsound M20 amp.
I would only use one amp at a time.


----------



## Forsaked

hillbilly559 said:


> I am waiting for my delivery of the ADI 2, so I have not had a chance to read the manual yet.
> 
> What I was wondering is if I can have both of the outputs connected at the same time?
> I want to connect the XLR to a Woo WA22, and the RCA to a Kingsound M20 amp.
> I would only use one amp at a time.


Sure it can.


----------



## hillbilly559

Forsaked said:


> Sure it can.


Thanks!
Can't wait 'till I see what it does.


----------



## Soundizer

Where is the serial number located? Trying to work out if i have a AKM or ESS SABRE chip version from Serial number.


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 21, 2021)

On the back is a sticker with the serial number.

rightmost you’ll find a single capital letter: B denotes a built in AKM chip; C denotes a ESS chip.

as you see here mine has the AKM chip:


----------



## Soundizer

Soundizer said:


> Where is the serial number located? Trying to work out if i have a AKM or ESS SABRE chip version from Serial number.


It is muted. Using optical out. No volume control

Volume now locked. So difficult

Why does it come volume locked. 20minutes and can’t even listen to it. Volume either locked or muted. No volume control. Using optical input.

How do you take it off mute and locked. I need volume control. It is locked or muted.


----------



## captblaze

Soundizer said:


> How do you take it off mute and locked. I need volume control. It is locked or muted.


press the volume knob inward once will mute / unmute


----------



## KDS315

RTFM is the secret always - READ THE FRIGGING MANUAL 😆


----------



## Soundizer

Tried USB AND OPTICAL INPUT NO VOLUME CONTROL. EITHER LOCKED



captblaze said:


> press the volume knob inward once will mute / unmute


I did that many times it switches from mute to locked at almost full volume.



KDS315 said:


> RTFM is the secret always - READ THE FRIGGING MANUAL 😆


Reading it again and again. No help. Read volume section

There is no volume control at all.  Remote or using volume knob. At full locked volume I could damage my headphones.



KDS315 said:


> RTFM is the secret always - READ THE FRIGGING MANUAL 😆


When you got your unit what did you do to take it off locked or mute?

Must be faulty unit.

Here is photo. Volume is greyed out





Matias said:


> What?? The manual is the best there is, they have instructional videos on YouTube, you have their support answering your e-mail, they have the RME Forums where their news is shared and commented by staff, including the owner Matthias Carstens.... What more do you want?


Here is photo. Volume is greyed out






I even reset the factory settings and still impossible to change volume.



NickedWicked said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Forgot to state in the review that some products don’t have ability to change volume


----------



## Forsaked

@Soundizer 

Instead of spamming the thread, just read the manual.
If you would have done this, you would have known that you just have to press the second button next to the volume knob, then scroll down by pressing second knob on the right side and then turn it once to disable "lock volume".
Also pressing any of those knobs while not in menu, enables or disables mute.


----------



## Soundizer (Aug 21, 2021)

Forsaked said:


> @Soundizer
> 
> Instead of spamming the thread, just read the manual.
> If you would have done this, you would have known that you just have to press the second button next to the volume knob, then scroll down by pressing second knob on the right side and then turn it once to disable "lock volume".
> Also pressing any of those knobs while not in menu, enables or disables mute.


Perhaps you didn’t read my posts where i stated i read the manual many times. I did as you stated several times as detailed in the manual. Looks like my unit was sold as new, but someone has changed deep settings. Even tried updating firmware. I had to make changes in set up.


----------



## gikigill

So was it bought new or used? 

I have 2 of these and they both had volume plus tone controls fully functional unless it was changed in the settings.


----------



## Soundizer

gikigill said:


> So was it bought new or used?
> 
> I have 2 of these and they both had volume plus tone controls fully functional unless it was changed in the settings.


Hello,

i am going to discuss with Bax-Music as I believe they sent me a used product. 
Otherwise there would be many posts by new owners complaining about why the default setting is locked volume. Which is also dangerous to hearing. Plus the transparent outer packaging was already ripped. 
Therefore i deduce it is not new.

it included a separate UK plug adapter instead of a proper UK full lead/plug.


----------



## Ordeith (Aug 22, 2021)

Hey all! I think I posted earlier in this thread, but can't find my posts.

I was about to pull the trigger on an RME ADI-2 DAC on Amazon, but I thought I remember pages ago (sometime last year?) that there was an 'updated version' of the ADI-2 silently pushed to vendors?

Where can I be sure that I'll get the latest version? Also, on Amazon it's odd - there are different vendors for the DAC, but some bundle headphones and other goodies with it, which I found a bit surprising...

EDIT: after reading the RME forums, it seems that they have done their very best to ensure that the change to the ESS DAC chip remains as "sonically indistinguishable" as possible from the AK4493 versions. I plan to buy one later today - any reason not to, at this stage?


----------



## Slaphead

Soundizer said:


> Perhaps you didn’t read my posts where i stated i read the manual many times. I did as you stated several times as detailed in the manual. Looks like my unit was sold as new, but someone has changed deep settings. Even tried updating firmware. I had to make changes in set up.


This took me 20 seconds to find in the manual

Press the I/O button (unintuitively the I/O button is above where it says I/O) -> Press the lower right encoder to scroll down to "Lock Volume" -> turn the lower right encoder to turn the volume lock off.


----------



## gikigill

Soundizer said:


> Hello,
> 
> i am going to discuss with Bax-Music as I believe they sent me a used product.
> Otherwise there would be many posts by new owners complaining about why the default setting is locked volume. Which is also dangerous to hearing. Plus the transparent outer packaging was already ripped.
> ...



Its a grey market product if it doesn't have the original plug and has an adapter bundled.


----------



## enb141

Maybe an unpopular opinion but I finally got my RME AIO PRO, which is slightly similar to the ADI-2 DAC, the main difference is that is limited to 24/192k but for my sources is more than enough.  Also doesn't has DSP but in my case I don't need DSP besides EQ (Jriver already has eq).  The only and only maybe the only thing behind the ADI-2 is that the headphones have only 6.9V but not an issue to me either, not even with my HD650.

So after doing a comparison with my sound blaster AE-9 + Sparkos OP AMs, the Sound blaster Sparkos win, not by a huge difference but still sounds better.  So if you are on a budget and have a desktop computer I highly recommend you this way.

If you have a laptop then you could buy an external enclosure (one of those used for video cards), and still be a cheaper option.

If you only need 5.3V for your headphones, you should consider this combo.


----------



## Soundizer

Slaphead said:


> This took me 20 seconds to find in the manual
> 
> Press the I/O button (unintuitively the I/O button is above where it says I/O) -> Press the lower right encoder to scroll down to "Lock Volume" -> turn the lower right encoder to turn the volume lock off.


You missed my point. I did that. Product has been screwed up by someone.  Had to do several resets. Then it unlocked.


----------



## mcgo

Ordeith said:


> EDIT: after reading the RME forums, it seems that they have done their very best to ensure that the change to the ESS DAC chip remains as "sonically indistinguishable" as possible from the AK4493 versions. I plan to buy one later today - any reason not to, at this stage?



FWIW, I bought my RME ADI-2 DAC specifically because it had an AKM chip. It was on the strength of my experience with the AK4309 that is in early PS1 consoles that convinced me I would LOVE it.

I have two ESS dacs in my junk dac box (along with a Schiit multibit plus others) and they both failed on my tonality tests. I think I was using the first track of BoC Hi Scores (1996 EP) at the time.. you could really hear the difference.  Now they may have been bad implementations of course, but two times bitten…

ADI-2 PRO still has AKM…


----------



## Slaphead

mcgo said:


> FWIW, I bought my RME ADI-2 DAC specifically because it had an AKM chip. It was on the strength of my experience with the AK4309 that is in early PS1 consoles that convinced me I would LOVE it.
> 
> I have two ESS dacs in my junk dac box (along with a Schiit multibit plus others) and they both failed on my tonality tests. I think I was using the first track of BoC Hi Scores (1996 EP) at the time.. you could really hear the difference.  Now they may have been bad implementations of course, but two times bitten…
> 
> ADI-2 PRO still has AKM…


Honestly it's a case of don't blame the DAC chip, blame the implementation of said DAC chip.

it's not like DAC technology isn't well understood these days, and I would posit that a dirt cheap DAC with a good, well thought out implementation will beat an expensive DAC chip that's been installed in a lacklustre electronic design.

I have no fear of ESS, or Cirrus even, if they have been carefully and properly integrated into the electronics in which they have to work.


----------



## Iggnasty

mcgo said:


> FWIW, I bought my RME ADI-2 DAC specifically because it had an AKM chip. It was on the strength of my experience with the AK4309 that is in early PS1 consoles that convinced me I would LOVE it.
> 
> I have two ESS dacs in my junk dac box (along with a Schiit multibit plus others) and they both failed on my tonality tests. I think I was using the first track of BoC Hi Scores (1996 EP) at the time.. you could really hear the difference.  Now they may have been bad implementations of course, but two times bitten…
> 
> ADI-2 PRO still has AKM…


FYSA, E-earphones in Japan still has AKM RME-2 so does Yodobashi


----------



## Ordeith

mcgo said:


> FWIW, I bought my RME ADI-2 DAC specifically because it had an AKM chip. It was on the strength of my experience with the AK4309 that is in early PS1 consoles that convinced me I would LOVE it.
> 
> I have two ESS dacs in my junk dac box (along with a Schiit multibit plus others) and they both failed on my tonality tests. I think I was using the first track of BoC Hi Scores (1996 EP) at the time.. you could really hear the difference.  Now they may have been bad implementations of course, but two times bitten…
> 
> ADI-2 PRO still has AKM…



I ordered it earlier today from Sweetwater, and will see. If it has the ESS chip and I don't like it, I might ask if anyone in NYC with the AKM chip would let me try their ADI-2 to see.

I also watched the video RME themselves put out, before ordering it:



So I'm going into this rather reassured. Here's hoping.


----------



## Matias

As Matthias Carstens says, there is more than just the chip itself, it is how they implement it. With digital overhead and steady clock, plus the same low distortion and noise, they consider it the same.


----------



## Tuneslover

KDS315 said:


> On the back is a sticker with the serial number.
> 
> rightmost you’ll find a single capital letter: B denotes a built in AKM chip; C denotes a ESS chip.
> 
> as you see here mine has the AKM chip:


Mine doesn’t have a letter, only numbers.


----------



## Forsaked

Tuneslover said:


> Mine doesn’t have a letter, only numbers.


Then it is the first generation with the AKM 4490.


----------



## enb141

I would like to know if this chip has been used as well in other cards, in my case AIO PRO, does anyone knows if other cards have changed from AKM to ESS?


----------



## Forsaked

enb141 said:


> I would like to know if this chip has been used as well in other cards, in my case AIO PRO, does anyone knows if other cards have changed from AKM to ESS?


I dont think so, since the ADI-2 Pro still uses 4493.
RME sayd in their forum, that they still have enougth 4493 chips to continue producing the Pro products with it.


----------



## enb141

Forsaked said:


> I dont think so, since the ADI-2 Pro still uses 4493.
> RME sayd in their forum, that they still have enougth 4493 chips to continue producing the Pro products with it.


Thanks for the advice, so as I said before here, if my AIO pro has an AKM chip, and my Soundblaster has an ESS, I can tell you that there's no "flavor" difference, they sound the same, most of the sound difference comes from the OP AMS which they stated that haven't changed.


----------



## Soundizer

Slaphead said:


> Honestly it's a case of don't blame the DAC chip, blame the implementation of said DAC chip.
> 
> it's not like DAC technology isn't well understood these days, and I would posit that a dirt cheap DAC with a good, well thought out implementation will beat an expensive DAC chip that's been installed in a lacklustre electronic design.
> 
> I have no fear of ESS, or Cirrus even, if they have been carefully and properly integrated into the electronics in which they have to work.


I agree that implementation is mass important and sure RME Engineering has excellent competencies in this area.

However a British saying comes to mind - “You cannot Polish a Turd”.


----------



## Soundizer

Matias said:


> As Matthias Carstens says, there is more than just the chip itself, it is how they implement it. With digital overhead and steady clock, plus the same low distortion and noise, they consider it the same.


They consider it the same from technical measurements. However users have to decide if the experience is similar/different. [Human ear brain processing]


----------



## Soundizer

The RME ADI-2 DAC FS sent to me from Bax-shop was B-Stock. It was listed as new.
Bax-shop admitted this mistake and hopefully will process a refund upon return.

i had an issue where the settings were already changed and volume was locked to about 90percent. Extremely loud. I could not unlock it following I/O settings as per manual. Eventually I unlocked it by going into SET UP playing with loading new settings. Then factory reset via holding {encode 1/volume/power button]. Then reset twice by holding both {encode 1 and encode 2 /volume/power button}. Finally unplugged.

now the above procedure is obviously not intuitive but trial and error based diligence.

what the real issue here is if I had plugged IEM’s or HEADPHONES in without unlocking I would likely damage my hearing and maybe even damage expensive IEM’s/HEADPHONES especially if new.

i have raised this point and requested a response from BAX-SHOP and AMPTEC - Distributor to BAC-SHOP.
BAX-SHOP are not bothered about this point and Amptec state it is BAX-SHOP responsibility.

i am waiting for an Official response from RME directly. Have asked for input from Matthias Carstens.


----------



## Slaphead

Soundizer said:


> I agree that implementation is mass important and sure RME Engineering has excellent competencies in this area.
> 
> However a British saying comes to mind - “You cannot Polish a Turd”.



Yeah, but I don't think there's really a turd of a DAC these days, at least among the established DAC manufacturers, sure some are going to be a bit better than others in terms of features and supported bit depth and sampling rate, but in terms of sound any differences are going to be beyond that of human hearing, meaning implementation is everything.

OK, a no name chinese DAC that costs 5 cents per unit might be the turd you're referring to, but realistically these won't end up in the kind of equipment we're looking at.


----------



## enb141 (Aug 25, 2021)

Slaphead said:


> Yeah, but I don't think there's really a turd of a DAC these days, at least among the established DAC manufacturers, sure some are going to be a bit better than others in terms of features and supported bit depth and sampling rate, but in terms of sound any differences are going to be beyond that of human hearing, meaning implementation is everything.
> 
> OK, a no name chinese DAC that costs 5 cents per unit might be the turd you're referring to, but realistically these won't end up in the kind of equipment we're looking at.


Do not underestimate chinese, they are everywhere, se Oppo, Topping and more chinese companies that are selling products.

Lots of people don't care if something is made in China or England, look at Joshua Valor, he's happy with his Topping combo, he was also happy with his Hifiman, so my point is that at some point you will see chinese dacs everywhere and will be hard to get a non chinese dac, as of today is hard to find any hardware not made in china.


----------



## NickedWicked

enb141 said:


> Do not underestimate chinese, they are everywhere, se Oppo, Topping and more chinese companies that are selling products.
> 
> Lots of people don't care if something is made in China or England, look at Joshua Valor, he's happy with his Topping combo, he was also happy with his Hifiman, so my point is that at some point you will see chinese dacs everywhere and will be hard to get a non chinese dac, as of today is hard to find any hardware not made in china.


He’s talking about run of the mill, mass produced DAC’s, big and/or small. We all know China produces excellent electronics, and as far as implementation goes they are pretty much on par or even ahead compared to western companies nowadays.


----------



## Ordeith

Just got mine - the C on the back denotes the ESS chip, I understand. Time to fire it up


----------



## Slaphead

enb141 said:


> *Do not underestimate chinese, they are everywhere, se Oppo, Topping and more chinese companies that are selling products.*
> 
> Lots of people don't care if something is made in China or England, look at Joshua Valor, he's happy with his Topping combo, he was also happy with his Hifiman, so my point is that at some point you will see chinese dacs everywhere and will be hard to get a non chinese dac, as of today is hard to find any hardware not made in china.


Oh I'm well aware of that, and the chinese make some excellent products. I'm talking about the back alley no-name electronics outfits which are fabbing possible subpar DAC ASICs by the millions which end up in cheap devices for the local market.

Even then given that DAC technology for the home market is over 40 years old the essential basics will be very well understood these days, I seriously doubt that they would be that much of a turd anyway - perfectly listenable, but just not quite as good as the established DAC mass production manufacturers such as AKM, ESS, Cirrus etc.


----------



## enb141

NickedWicked said:


> He’s talking about run of the mill, mass produced DAC’s, big and/or small. We all know China produces excellent electronics, and as far as implementation goes they are pretty much on par or even ahead compared to western companies nowadays.



I don't think chinese products exceed a good western product, they are getting better, perhaps but still behind good products made in Japan, Uk, Germany.

A simple dac chip implemented in china, I doubt it will be way better than those Realtek.



Slaphead said:


> Oh I'm well aware of that, and the chinese make some excellent products. I'm talking about the back alley no-name electronics outfits which are fabbing possible subpar DAC ASICs by the millions which end up in cheap devices for the local market.
> 
> Even then given that DAC technology for the home market is over 40 years old the essential basics will be very well understood these days, I seriously doubt that they would be that much of a turd anyway - perfectly listenable, but just not quite as good as the established DAC mass production manufacturers such as AKM, ESS, Cirrus etc.



Exactly, but people won't care, that's the problem, lots of people would love to pay for something cheaper than a Realtek


----------



## larsv

Soundizer said:


> The RME ADI-2 DAC FS sent to me from Bax-shop was B-Stock. It was listed as new.
> Bax-shop admitted this mistake and hopefully will process a refund upon return.
> 
> i had an issue where the settings were already changed and volume was locked to about 90percent. Extremely loud. I could not unlock it following I/O settings as per manual. Eventually I unlocked it by going into SET UP playing with loading new settings. Then factory reset via holding {encode 1/volume/power button]. Then reset twice by holding both {encode 1 and encode 2 /volume/power button}. Finally unplugged.
> ...



Also ordered one from Bax shop today with their discount code.
Wondering which version I'll get.


----------



## arielext

Any company that takes time to record a video about a different chip in the same product (see video) is a winner for me.
RME has proven over and over again to be such a company and they do again with this DAC change.
They don't need to improve just for measurements.


----------



## Ordeith

Well, what can I say: I'm so glad I bought one. 

I hadn't realized it, but over time I had "gotten used to" a slight hissing background with my custom IEMs, since I was too lazy to carry my portable setup. And I didn't use them all at my PC.

I spent the past few days working from home, listening away. I wish I had bought this DAC earlier, especially since I have been working from home for over a year...

Either way - so grateful to the folks in this thread, and on this forum in general.


----------



## emilsoft (Aug 28, 2021)

ADI 2 fs with ESS chip + ifi iPower X 12V; I have to echo what others have mentioned here, the iPower X certainly improves things and raises what is a nice clean analytical source to an even more articulate, smoother and more musical listen.. the key improvements for me; more easy going/smoother sound coupled with a more accurate and focused presentation (better transients, blacker background, better separation, deeper and tighter bass etc etc). This is tested with IEMs - Sony IERM7 which easily convey this, it's a magical listen now turning a normal listening session into an all day one.

Why or how I have no clue as RME say power don't make a difference.. I'm well aware of how placebo can have a strong effect, but the improvements here are more obvious and beyond what I'd normally attribute as my mind playing tricks on me. I'm a big cynic when it comes to hocus pocus audiophile stuff like 500$ cables and weights on top of audio equipment to reduce vibration etc.

Mind you it's like going from a very good wine to an excellent  one - one needs to focus a little to taste the improvements and not just gulp it down with a chicken madras.

Now I have to wonder what the ifi IPower Elite brings to the table, and is there a 12V vs 15V difference. I know what RME think..


----------



## TK33 (Aug 28, 2021)

emilsoft said:


> ADI 2 fs with ESS chip + ifi iPower X 12V; I have to echo what others have mentioned here, the iPower X certainly improves things and raises what is a nice clean analytical source to an even more articulate, smoother and more musical listen.. the key improvements for me; more easy going/smoother sound coupled with a more accurate and focused presentation (better transients, blacker background, better separation, deeper and tighter bass etc etc). This is tested with IEMs - Sony IERM7 which easily convey this, it's a magical listen now turning a normal listening session into an all day one.
> 
> Why or how I have no clue as RME say power don't make a difference.. I'm well aware of how placebo can have a strong effect, but the improvements here are more obvious and beyond what I'd normally attribute as my mind playing tricks on me. I'm a big cynic when it comes to hocus pocus audiophile stuff like 500$ cables and weights on top of audio equipment to reduce vibration etc.
> 
> ...


I actually have a 12v version on the way too. I actually got it not expecting any improvement in sound but because I am trying to reduce cable clutter and like the more streamlined design of the iPower X (no box rolling around on the floor or falling off desk and I just like the way it looks). I am sure I could've found a cheaper solution but hey, why not get one of these (I already have the 5v version).  Good to hear people are happy with the combo.  As long as it doesn't ruin the sound (which, if, as RME states, power doesn't matter, it couldn't) then I will be happy anyway.  Not really sure why people find a need to tell others where or how to spend there money or what should or should not make them happy.  Glad you are enjoying yours.  Looking forward to getting mine.


----------



## BaltColts

Can you all recommend power supplies that may be cheaper and have a similar effect? Thanks.


----------



## emilsoft

TK33 said:


> I actually have a 12v version on the way too. I actually got it not expecting any improvement in sound but because I am trying to reduce cable clutter and like the more streamlined design of the iPower X (no box rolling around on the floor or falling off desk and I just like the way it looks). I am sure I could've found a cheaper solution but hey, why not get one of these (I already have the 5v version).  Good to hear people are happy with the combo.  As long as it doesn't ruin the sound (which, if, as RME states, power doesn't matter, it couldn't) then I will be happy anyway.  Not really sure why people find a need to tell others where or how to spend there money or what should or should not make them happy.  Glad you are enjoying yours.  Looking forward to getting mine.



You'll enjoy the improvements I'm sure - please report back here when you test it.

I admire RME's purely scientific and measuring approach, and I suspect the RME's digital section probably is not affected by different power supplies, however the analog stage can be a more complex matter that has some variance past current theory, and the ears are very sensitive organs much like our taste buds: why does an excellent measuring dac like Chord Qutest sound a fair bit different to something like another excellent measuring source like the Apogee Element? Existing measurements (and ASR forum) tells us they will sound exactly the same.

Of course one has to be cautious as the brain can play tricks on us too - so if I'm struggling to hear a difference or thinking oh maybe there is a bit here or a touch there better then I put a lid on it and attribute it to a psychological variability - but when it's an obvious difference doing a side by side A-B testing, even blind testing, then there's something more to it.


----------



## emilsoft

BaltColts said:


> Can you all recommend power supplies that may be cheaper and have a similar effect? Thanks.



iPower X 12V... I also tried the 15V older and cheaper model (non X): also improvement, but the X just takes things up a notch and sprinkles magic.


----------



## Matias

emilsoft said:


> iPower X 12V... I also tried the 15V older and cheaper model (non X): also improvement, but the X just takes things up a notch and sprinkles magic.


Agreed.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-ipower-x-the-official-thread.926656/post-16236813


----------



## BaltColts

So, if I am purchasing one, should I go with the 12 or 15 volt version? Thanks again.


----------



## mcgo

BaltColts said:


> Can you all recommend power supplies that may be cheaper and have a similar effect? Thanks.



From my notes - Meanwell medical grade has better specifications than stock PS.

rme adi2 replacement ps
meanwell GSM40A12 (12V) medical
5.5/2.1mm
locking connector: bkl-electronic 072690 or tru components 001582349


----------



## emilsoft

I just tested the 3.5mm with my Sennheiser HD650 - it's more relaxed, doesn't have the glare, has a nice bloom, and is overall a more pleasant almost organic listen compared to the larger jack! There is enough volume.

I don't know what's going on with the more powerful headout, it sounds almost plastic and glare, making for a more tiring listen. Perhaps more burn in...


----------



## iFi audio

Matias said:


> Agreed.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-ipower-x-the-official-thread.926656/post-16236813



Thank you!


----------



## enb141

One question, how do you compare the RME ADI-2 DAC to the Chord Quetest, just as DAC without the DSP?


----------



## GoldenOne

enb141 said:


> One question, how do you compare the RME ADI-2 DAC to the Chord Quetest, just as DAC without the DSP?


Just as a dac the adi-2 isn't all that amazing. It's not bad. But it's not great.

Realistically the adi-2 should be bought for the features.

The qutest is a much better dac. With the caveat that it's not particularly great with macrodynamics/'slam', so may come across as too 'polite' sounding for some genres.

For similar money my pick would probably be the gustard x26 pro


----------



## enb141

GoldenOne said:


> Just as a dac the adi-2 isn't all that amazing. It's not bad. But it's not great.
> 
> Realistically the adi-2 should be bought for the features.
> 
> ...



What do you mean with macrodynamics/slam? Which genres are you talking about?


----------



## GoldenOne

enb141 said:


> What do you mean with macrodynamics/slam? Which genres are you talking about?


The initial crack of a snare for example or impact of a kick drum.

On the qutest its somewhat softened compared to other dacs (including the Dave, its not just a chord thing).

Also would apply to a lot of electronic music.


----------



## enb141

GoldenOne said:


> The initial crack of a snare for example or impact of a kick drum.
> 
> On the qutest its somewhat softened compared to other dacs (including the Dave, its not just a chord thing).
> 
> Also would apply to a lot of electronic music.


I see, another question, is the sound "flavor" really different or is just slightly different?


----------



## Slaphead

GoldenOne said:


> Just as a dac the adi-2 isn't all that amazing. It's not bad. But it's not great.
> 
> *Realistically the adi-2 should be bought for the features.*
> 
> ...


Absolutely, I agree.

Mainly because I can hear bugger all difference between the vast majority of DACs, and those that I can hear a difference with are pumped in certain frequency ranges to get attention to themselves to sell more, and are therefore wrong.


----------



## emilsoft (Aug 30, 2021)

enb141 said:


> One question, how do you compare the RME ADI-2 DAC to the Chord Quetest, just as DAC without the DSP?


I have both. The RME (ESS version) with iPower and iUSB, is better than the Qutest sound wise for me.. it's more of a flavour thing as both are competing in the same tier. The RME I find bit more refined and neutral, especially the mids which are not so pushed forward as the Qutest are gentler and more relaxed. The Qutest I find it sounds a bit DSP to me, like it's highlighting details in the mids and pushing them forward, as well as working harder to recreate a 3D depth - impressive at times but also can be a little too much.. the RME just lets the music flow out in a very honest, clean way whilst retaining some organic relaxed sense.

IMO, I would have never purchased the Qutest if I had know this before, the RME's value is through the roof considering you get so many features, top tier sound quality that rivals the Qutest and a lovely 3.5mm out... I never heard the AKM dac chip version, but the ESS one is very nice sounding and one of the best sources I've heard.


----------



## enb141

emilsoft said:


> I have both. The RME (ESS version) with iPower and iUSB, is better than the Qutest sound wise for me.. it's more of a flavour thing as both are competing in the same tier. The RME I find bit more refined and neutral, especially the mids which are not so pushed forward as the Qutest are gentler and more relaxed. The Qutest I find it sounds a bit DSP to me, like it's highlighting details in the mids and pushing them forward, as well as working harder to recreate a 3D depth - impressive at times but also can be a little too much.. the RME just lets the music flow out in a very honest, clean way whilst retaining some organic relaxed sense.
> 
> IMO, I would have never purchased the Qutest if I had know this before, the RME's value is through the roof considering you get so many features, top tier sound quality that rivals the Qutest and a lovely 3.5mm out... I never heard the AKM dac chip version, but the ESS one is very nice sounding and one of the best sources I've heard.



Thanks for the advice, by the way, I have an RME AIO Pro (AKM) and a Sound Blaster AE-9 (ESS + Sparkos OP AMPs) both have the same signature, just a slightly more revealing but both have the same "flavor" so in other words AKM or ESS won't change the sound (at least not to my ears)


----------



## Soundizer

larsv said:


> Also ordered one from Bax shop today with their discount code.
> Wondering which version I'll get.


They sell used products as new. Was told even by RME not to buy from them. Cancel your order.


----------



## Leporello

GoldenOne said:


> Just as a dac the adi-2 isn't all that amazing. It's not bad. But it's not great.
> 
> Realistically the adi-2 should be bought for the features.
> 
> ...


Truth to be told, it is utterly unlikely that RME and qutest could be told apart in a blind test by anyone.


----------



## emilsoft

Leporello said:


> Truth to be told, it is utterly unlikely that RME and qutest could be told apart in a blind test by anyone.



It's not too difficult to hear the difference - the Qutest has it's own distinctive sound where it pushed the mids in a very detailed holographic manner, it demands the listener's full attention. The RME (ess) takes a more relaxed and neutral approach with the mids which I enjoy more, as I can enjoy it even when I want to relax or during work - the Qutest demands full attention. Even through speakers it's fairly obvious.


----------



## larsv

Soundizer said:


> They sell used products as new. Was told even by RME not to buy from them. Cancel your order.



Already got it last week. Brand new (foil around the boxm sticker on the power inlet etc.) and with ESS chip.


----------



## GoldenOne

Leporello said:


> Truth to be told, it is utterly unlikely that RME and qutest could be told apart in a blind test by anyone.


They're two quite different sounding dacs


----------



## Soundizer

larsv said:


> Already got it last week. Brand new (foil around the boxm sticker on the power inlet etc.) and with ESS chip.


Ok. That’s good. Sorry I didn’t want anyone else to have the same bad experience as i did with them. I just received my unit today from Scan in the UK. Has a 5 year Warranty with UK Distributor.

I don’t know if it is AKM or ESS.


----------



## Soundizer

Soundizer said:


> Ok. That’s good. Sorry I didn’t want anyone else to have the same bad experience as i did with them. I just received my unit today from Scan in the UK. Has a 5 year Warranty with UK Distributor.
> 
> I don’t know if it is AKM or ESS.


I confirm it is ESS as Serial Number has a C after it and includes additional “Build” filter in settings.


----------



## gikigill

Does the ESS have the typical IMD hump?


----------



## GoldenOne

If anyone in the UK has a unit of the ess adi-2 that they wouldn't mind lending to get measured I'd be quite keen to do so.

Fingers crossed the IMD hump is addressed


----------



## Matias

So the TempoTec Sonata E44 gets the top ranking? Huh, interesting.

https://andyaudiovault.com/donglemadness/tempotec-sonata-e44/


----------



## betula

I have just bumped into this V.41 download. I only had V.35. Perhaps someone finds it useful.


----------



## Iggnasty

GoldenOne said:


> If anyone in the UK has a unit of the ess adi-2 that they wouldn't mind lending to get measured I'd be quite keen to do so.
> 
> Fingers crossed the IMD hump is addressed


It will great if you review the ADI unit you already have on your you tube channel


----------



## TheEman

Hey everyone - brand new here.

I have a pair of Audeze LCD-2's (from mid-2013) currently paired with an Asgard 2 (from 2013) and a Modi 3+ (replaced a Bifrost due to lack of optical out on my new motherboard and lack of USB on the Bifrost). And, what can I say? I'm no longer engaged with my music. Everything feels recessed, and that "toe-tapping goodness" is gone. I listened to the RME ADI-2 back in December but felt it was too dark and, hence, didn't pair well with the cooler sound signature of the LCD-2. Would it be worth another audition now that the ESS chip has been implemented? Or should I be looking at an HD-800 S with the RME ADI-2 instead? Thanks for any feedback. Super tough to audition equipment in stores these days.


----------



## Soundizer

Does RME have a stance on if running in the RME ADI-2 DAC FS is beneficial?

Just reading the manual and not found any reference on this subject.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Soundizer said:


> Does RME have a stance on if running in the RME ADI-2 DAC FS is beneficial?
> 
> Just reading the manual and not found any reference on this subject.


No


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 5, 2021)

I've been looking closely at the extremely attractive* RME ADI-2 DAC FS*, but I have a few questions about it.

First, will I be able to upgrade to its new firmware versions using the _*Ubuntu Linux*_ OS? Does RME have firmware downloads for Linux? Or, can one upgrade the DAC's firmware via Android?  (I'm guessing "no" on the latter.)

I do not use Microsoft Windows or Apple Macintosh hardware or operating systems.  (I've read through this entire thread over the last few days, btw, and I must say it's a bit distressing to see that _not_ _a single poster here_ uses Linux. Fine, whatever, to each his own.  _But not one person?_)

It's also interesting that no one here has, from what I can tell, used this DAC with the* Nvidia Shield Pro Android TV box* as the DAC's USB audio source, which is what I plan to do.

On the Shield, I'm using the _USB Audio Player Pro_, _JRiver_, and _Sony Music Center_ software-programs-for-Android to play my DSD and other music files. (I'm still experimenting with all three. So far, I've used UAPP the most. It works well enough but it's slightly wonky -- some items aren't highlighted so you can't tell where you are in a list, say, of albums -- as UAPP is not officially supported for Android TV.)

I have a one-terabyte SSD (with lots of FLAC and DSD music files on it) USB-attached to the Shield.  I need a DAC as the converter between, on the one side, the all-digital Shield and a new all-digital LG CX OLED 77-inch TV, and, on the other side, an analog two-channel room hi-fi sound system.

(I _*was*_ using the LH Labs _Geek Pulse_ as my DAC for this, but that old dog has just died on me, and, as you all here know, the company ghosted itself long ago.)

I want to hear everything -- all movies and TV content, as well as my DSD and other music files (as well as all streaming radio and/or spotify-type streaming services) -- through the analog system.  Without a DAC, of course, all the audio from the Shield gets played through inferior TV speakers.

I plan to pipe the DAC _*mostly*_ through the analog room sound system (a great-sounding vintage Marantz model 2238 B receiver and a pair of vintage Bose 601 floor speakers, which speakers I plan to upgrade soon) but _*also*_ occasionally through a pair of Phiaton MS 400 headphones -- the red ones, I'm sure folks here are familiar with them.

Now, about *drivers* -- isn't Windows the only operating system for which one needs to use that silly ASIO driver or whatever it is?  Or any software driver at all?  My hope -- and my belief -- is that I can run the DAC from an Android box with _NO SOFTWARE DRIVERS_.   I'm guessing I _should_ be able to do this, but I want to make sure, so I'm running this by you all here.

(I may also plan from time to time to plug the DAC into my Linux box as well, using _NO DRIVERS_.)   Generally speaking, it's my understanding that neither Linux nor Mac typically need drivers with DACs and such.  (I did once have to lug the Pulse into my office to upgrade its firmware on a Windows box, because that was the only method LH Labs provided for firmware upgrading.)

Also, forgive my naivete here, but I'm guessing there is no way one can use balanced XLR line-outs to go to RCA inputs and have a balanced signal.  This just doesn't exist using RCA connectors, correct?  A balanced signal, I'm guessing, would require XLR connections on both ends.

I'm not a super-headphones guy -- though I do enjoy them when I'm in the mood for them -- but as a Linux-head, the *ADI-2*'s customizability greatly appeals to me.  I'm just trying to ward off any gotcha's before I pull the trigger, as my use case -- apparently -- is somewhat rarified.

Thanks for any thoughts.


----------



## captblaze

watchpocket said:


> I've been looking closely at the extremely attractive* RME ADI-2 DAC FS*, but I have a few questions about it.
> 
> First, will I be able to upgrade to its new firmware versions using the _*Ubuntu Linux*_ OS? Does RME have firmware downloads for Linux? Or, can one upgrade the DAC's firmware via Android?  (I'm guessing "no" on the latter.)
> 
> ...


Android O/S is limited to 48kHz natively and require 3rd party software for bit perfect playback


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 5, 2021)

captblaze said:


> Android O/S is limited to 48kHz natively and require 3rd party software for bit perfect playback


No, it's up to 24/192k now, but regardless of that, I've been using that third-party software -- as I indicated in my previous post -- which _bypasses_ the Shield's DAC once the software recognizes a USB DAC.

I've successfully played DSD128 files _from_ the Shield_ through_ the Geek Pulse before the Pulse conked out on me. So it's not like that can't be done. It's the whole point of using something like UAPP on the Shield.


----------



## captblaze

watchpocket said:


> No, it's up to 24/192k now, but regardless of that, I've been using that third-party software -- as I indicated in my previous post -- which _bypasses_ the Shield's DAC once the software recognizes a USB DAC.
> 
> I've successfully played DSD128 files _from_ the Shield_ through_ the Geek Pulse before the Pulse conked out on me. So it's not like that can't be done. It's the whole point of using something like UAPP on the Shield.


which version? my android 9 tablet is locked at 48


----------



## TK33

watchpocket said:


> No, it's up to 24/192k now, but regardless of that, I've been using that third-party software -- as I indicated in my previous post -- which _bypasses_ the Shield's DAC. I've successfully played DSD128 files _from_ the Shield_ through_ the Geek Pulse before the Pulse conked out on me. So it's not like that can't be done. It's the whole point of using something like UAPP on the Shield.


Are you planning on using the RME ADI-2's features like the PEQ? If not, is there a reason why you are not considering an integrated amp, which could simplify things for you.  Something to consider if you are also thinking about upgrading speakers as well (just a suggestion as it might be money better spent if you are on a budget, which I do not know if you are). 

I dont have a Shield TV but I did a quick Goodle search and see others have reported using a Shield TV with the ADI-2 (saw some posts on ASR for example).  Dont know the exact model.

For the output from the ADI-2 DAC, you should not connect the balanced XLR output from the ADI-2 to an unbalanced RCA input on your amp.  The RME ADI-2 has an unbalanced RCA output for this purpose.


----------



## TK33 (Sep 5, 2021)

captblaze said:


> which version? my android 9 tablet is locked at 48


UAPP bypasses Android resampling, similar to how ASIO or Wasapi exclusive mode works on PCs. I used it for my Qobuz subscription to get bitperfect from my Android phones (S9, V60, OnePlus 8t) to my Dragonfly Cobalt (up to 96khz in the case of the DFC). It is a third party app and has to support your DAC and supports local file playback and some streaming services like Qobuz and Tidal (no offline downloads though). Using UAPP, he is correct that is possible to get >48khz on Android.

Edit: I have no idea if UAPP works with the ADI-2 DAC FS since I primarily feed it via coax from my Node 2i.

Edit 2: @watchpocket here is a link to the UAPP thread where people were discussing the RME ADI-2.  There are a few other results that come up if you search that thread so I would ask any UAPP related questions there. 

Post in thread 'USB Audio Player PRO (UAPP): 24- and 32-bit playback, ubiquitous USB audio support for Android' https://www.head-fi.org/threads/usb...udio-support-for-android.704065/post-16404553


----------



## captblaze

TK33 said:


> UAPP bypasses Android resampling, similar to how ASIO or Wasapi exclusive mode works on PCs. I used it for my Qobuz subscription to get bitperfect from my Android phones (S9, V60, OnePlus 8t) to my Dragonfly Cobalt (up to 96khz in the case of the DFC). It is a third party app and has to support your DAC and supports local file playback and some streaming services like Qobuz and Tidal (no offline downloads though). Using UAPP, he is correct that is possible to get >48khz on Android.
> 
> Edit: I have no idea if UAPP works with the ADI-2 DAC FS since I primarily feed it via coax from my Node 2i.


i understand and have UAPP. it is the only way I have for bit perfect playback otherwise it is 48kHz


----------



## TK33

captblaze said:


> i understand and have UAPP. it is the only way I have for bit perfect playback otherwise it is 48kHz


So then we are in agreement.  OP mentioned UAPP so that was why I replied to your post.


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 5, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Are you planning on using the RME ADI-2's features like the PEQ? If not, is there a reason why you are not considering an integrated amp, which could simplify things for you.  Something to consider if you are also thinking about upgrading speakers as well (just a suggestion as it might be money better spent if you are on a budget, which I do not know if you are).
> 
> I dont have a Shield TV but I did a quick Goodle search and see others have reported using a Shield TV with the ADI-2 (saw some posts on ASR for example).  Dont know the exact model.
> 
> For the output from the ADI-2 DAC, you should not connect the balanced XOR output from the ADI-2 to an unbalanced RCA input on your amp.  The RME ADI-2 has an unbalanced RCA output for this purpose.


_> Are you planning on using the RME ADI-2's features like the PEQ_

Of course.  I did say that I'm interested in the customizability of the DAC.

_> If not, is there a reason why you are not considering an integrated amp, which could simplify things for you_

Why would I need one?  Simplify how?  I need a DAC.

_> and see others have reported using a Shield TV with the ADI-2_

Thank you. I'll look further around with some searches on this.  Since I've been reading through this thread, my initial impulse was just to ask here, but I had to wade through a lot of talk about headphones and IEMs.  (What did I expect from a forum called _Head-fi_? LOL.)

_> For the output from the ADI-2 DAC, you should not connect the balanced XLR output from the ADI-2 to an unbalanced RCA input on your amp.  The RME ADI-2 has an unbalanced RCA output for this purpose._

Yes, it was just some wishful thinking going on there, like maybe I could jerry-rig a non-balanced connection into a balanced one.  I'll be using strictly the RCA ports, as I have been. Thanks for your reply.


----------



## watchpocket

captblaze said:


> which version? my android 9 tablet is locked at 48


9 also, with Shield software version 8.2.3.  
https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/shield/shield-tv-pro/


----------



## watchpocket

TK33 said:


> Edit 2: here is a link to the UAPP thread where people were discussing the RME ADI-2. There are a few other results that come up if you search that thread so I would ask any UAPP related questions there.


Excellent!  Thank you.


----------



## Soundizer

watchpocket said:


> I've been looking closely at the extremely attractive* RME ADI-2 DAC FS*, but I have a few questions about it.
> 
> First, will I be able to upgrade to its new firmware versions using the _*Ubuntu Linux*_ OS? Does RME have firmware downloads for Linux? Or, can one upgrade the DAC's firmware via Android?  (I'm guessing "no" on the latter.)
> 
> ...


“It's also interesting that no one here has, from what I can tell, used this DAC with the_ Nvidia Shield Pro Android TV box_ as the DAC's USB audio source, which is what I plan to do.”

*This is my main application. For TV Streaming Services Listening = Netflix, Prime, etc on my Nvidia Shield Pro.*

_Connected via USB into Shield - the port furthest from HDMI as recommended my Nvidia. 
USB Volume is set to fixed out. As it should be. 

VERY IMPORTANT - Turn off Dolby Processing in Shield Settings for Stereo PCM. 

More questions please ask - happy to help._


----------



## Soundizer

Soundizer said:


> “It's also interesting that no one here has, from what I can tell, used this DAC with the_ Nvidia Shield Pro Android TV box_ as the DAC's USB audio source, which is what I plan to do.”
> 
> *This is my main application. For TV Streaming Services Listening = Netflix, Prime, etc on my Nvidia Shield Pro.*
> 
> ...


Just to Clarify. My RME ADI-2 DAC is connected to Shield Pro TV for TV Streaming services listening. 
this is why I purchased the RME ADI-2 DAC. 
Headphones = Focal Clear MG.


----------



## watchpocket

Soundizer said:


> Just to Clarify. My RME ADI-2 DAC is connected to Shield Pro TV for TV Streaming services listening.
> this is why I purchased the RME ADI-2 DAC.
> Headphones = Focal Clear MG.


Great, glad to hear, thanks.  Does anyone know anything about firmware upgrades for Linux?  (If not, I've posted a question on the RME forum about this.)  

Also, no one has said anything about needing drivers on Linux for the ADI-2 DAC.  (Probably because no one here uses Linux, LOL.  I should probably ask about that on the REM Forum, too.)  

But I'm basically ready to pull the trigger.  Does anyone have a preferred dealer in the U.S.?  I try to buy from Amazon as little as possible.


----------



## Slaphead (Sep 6, 2021)

watchpocket said:


> I do not use Microsoft Windows or Apple Macintosh hardware or operating systems. (I've read through this entire thread over the last few days, btw, and I must say it's a bit distressing to see that _not_ _a single poster here_ uses Linux. Fine, whatever, to each his own. _But not one person?_)


I have done, and would continue to do so, but support for Linux is very thin on the ground when it comes to commercial software, which, in my case, is unavoidable.

Hence Windows for gaming, and Mac for music production. I'd gladly switch to Linux if devs supported it and offered the same breadth of software available on the the other two platforms. Sadly they don't, and what "equivalents" exists in the Linux eco-system are amateurish at best, and just plain useless at worst.

It's a great OS, but without universal support it remains very much a third runner that's way behind.


----------



## G8torbyte (Sep 6, 2021)

watchpocket said:


> But I'm basically ready to pull the trigger.  Does anyone have a preferred dealer in the U.S.?  I try to buy from Amazon as little as possible.


Most pro audio/music production dealers will have RME equipment.  I was lucky a few years back and purchased a demo unit for less than $1K from Sweetwater:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/manufacturer/RME


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 6, 2021)

Slaphead said:


> I have done, and would continue to do so, but support for Linux is very thin on the ground when it comes to commercial software, which, in my case, is unavoidable.
> 
> Hence Windows for gaming, and Mac for music production. I'd gladly switch to Linux if devs supported it and offered the same breadth of software available on the the other two platforms. Sadly they don't, and what "equivalents" exists in the Linux eco-system are amateurish at best, and just plain useless at worst.
> 
> It's a great OS, but without universal support it remains very much a third runner that's way behind.


Well as you point out, that's totally dependent on what you're using it for.  For security (and user-freedom), it can't be beat. And there's a whole lot to do on a computer OS besides games and music, but I get your point.


----------



## Slaphead

watchpocket said:


> Well as you point out, that's totally dependent on what you're using it for.  For security (and user-freedom), it can't be beat. And there's a whole lot to do on a computer OS besides games and music, but I get your point.


And that's really the problem. That whole lot of other things that you can do with a computer can be done just as well on Mac or Windows.

As for security well let's just say that it's so secure that my bank does not allow me to login and do internet banking on a Linux based system. I had a VM with Ubuntu installed purely to do financial stuff, however at the start of 2020 the bank wrote to me saying that it would cease to support Linux based browsers due to security concerns, and by April 2020 I was blocked when using Linux.


----------



## enb141

The real problem with linux are drivers, yes you get lots of drivers from lots of hardware, but most drivers are soooo basic, Soundblaster, RME, etc. no one does good drivers for linux period. 

That's why I don't use linux, I'm not saying is a bad OS, is just that when you have good hardware, there's no good drivers/software to use it.

And to respond your question, no there's no RME drivers for linux (AFAIK), only for Mac or Windows, which are by far the best driver suppliers of any sound card in the world.


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 6, 2021)

Slaphead said:


> And that's really the problem. That whole lot of other things that you can do with a computer can be done just as well on Mac or Windows.
> 
> As for security well let's just say that it's so secure that my bank does not allow me to login and do internet banking on a Linux based system. I had a VM with Ubuntu installed purely to do financial stuff, however at the start of 2020 the bank wrote to me saying that it would cease to support Linux based browsers due to security concerns, and by April 2020 I was blocked when using Linux.


I've never had such a problem.  You can easily get a browser extension that shows a different browser to the network.  And all those programs on Mac and Windows are neither free dollar-wise nor free as in freedom.  Mac and Windows will subvert you and surveil you in too many ways to recount here. Their main goal is profit.  You have to want to use something to find out how to use it well.  The fact is that the future of free, personal computing is in peril, and Linux shows us the way out of that. 

As I said earlier, however, to each his own.  If you like Mac and Windows, go for it.  It was just a bit of a surprise not to find a _single_ Linux user here. That's OK, Linux has a large, global user-base outside of head-fi. Anyway, we're a bit off-topic at this point, so I'll leave it.


----------



## Matias

Just upgrade your DAC in a friend's, neighbor's or family member's PC or Mac every year or so. Or install a Win10 in a VM. It is not like the ADI-2 DAC needs updating regularly, and still works great even with old firmware.


----------



## watchpocket

Matias said:


> Just upgrade your DAC in a friend's, neighbor's or family member's PC or Mac every year or so. Or install a Win10 in a VM. It is not like the ADI-2 DAC needs updating regularly, and still works great even with old firmware.


Yep, I can do that.  Just ordered it up btw and looking very forward to it.


----------



## Soundizer

watchpocket said:


> Yep, I can do that.  Just ordered it up btw and looking very forward to it.


If you have ordered from a friendly dealer try asking them to update firmware when required. Just a thought.


----------



## Soundizer

watchpocket said:


> Yep, I can do that.  Just ordered it up btw and looking very forward to it.


One thing I don’t know how to address is turning off the upsampling. As everything played shows as 192 sample rate on ADI.


----------



## gikigill

Soundizer said:


> One thing I don’t know how to address is turning off the upsampling. As everything played shows as 192 sample rate on ADI.



Check if your OS is oversampling. It was my OS instead of the RME in my case.


----------



## Soundizer

gikigill said:


> Check if your OS is oversampling. It was my OS instead of the RME in my case.


Yes NVIDIA Shield over samples always to 192. That’s why Android OS is unacceptable.


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 7, 2021)

Soundizer said:


> Yes NVIDIA Shield over samples always to 192. That’s why Android OS is unacceptable.


It's my understanding that if you use, for example, USB Audio Player Pro (which has to be side-loaded onto the Shield), with a DAC plugged via USB into an Nvidia Shield Pro Android TV box, UAPP will recognize the "USB device" -- the DAC -- and will bypass the Android box's audio system.  I had no problem with my previous DAC displaying "DSD128," and UAPP also displayed "DSD128" for both the file being played and the DAC.  You may have to have all your settings just right in the Shield for this to happen, and I think you need to have "Dolby Digtal Plus" disabled.  YMMV.


----------



## Soundizer

watchpocket said:


> It's my understanding that if you use, for example, USB Audio Player Pro (which has to be side-loaded onto the Shield), with a DAC plugged via USB into an Nvidia Shield Pro Android TV box, UAPP will recognize the "USB device" -- the DAC -- and will bypass the Android box's audio system.  I had no problem with my previous DAC displaying "DSD128," and UAPP also displayed "DSD128" for both the file being played and the DAC.  You may have to have all your settings just right in the Shield for this to happen, and I think you need to have "Dolby Digtal Plus" disabled.  YMMV.


Yes thank you. Am aware of USB Audio Player Pro but don’t have a Google Phone so can’t do this unfortunately.


----------



## Soundizer

Soundizer said:


> Yes thank you. Am aware of USB Audio Player Pro but don’t have a Google Phone so can’t do this unfortunately.


Also no one detailed if this will play Netflix, Prime Video, Disney+ and AppleTV+ in correct sample rate without oversampling.


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 7, 2021)

delete


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 7, 2021)

Soundizer said:


> Yes thank you. Am aware of USB Audio Player Pro but don’t have a Google Phone so can’t do this unfortunately.


Couldn't you just go to the google play store from your desktop machine and download UAPP from there?  That's what I did.  Put it on a flash drive and plug the drive into your Shield.  "Mibox APK Installer for Android TV" -- this'll cost you maybe four bux -- will definitely sideload-install UAPP.  Once the bypass takes place, Netflix and everything else goes through the DAC. 

I did discover that you definitely need Dolby Digital plus disabled. When DDP was enabled, Netflix did not go through the DAC but directly through the crappy little TV speakers.


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 7, 2021)

Soundizer said:


> Also no one detailed if this will play Netflix, Prime Video, Disney+ and AppleTV+ in correct sample rate without oversampling.


You don't need an android phone to download UAPP from the google play store.  Also, I bleieve you *can* play Netflix et al. audio without the shiled doing upsampling once the DAC takes over audio from the Shield.


----------



## Iggnasty

watchpocket said:


> What I'm trying to tell you is that you don't need an android phone to download UAPP from the google play store.  Also that you *can* play Netflix et al. audio without the upsampling once the DAC takes over audio from the Shield.


I’ve done it before on my Shield V2 without an android phone. Just google it or YouTube it. Do both


----------



## Soundizer

Thanks for help above. I am trying to find a discussion thread which details audio bit rate for popular TV Streaming Services = Netflix, Prime.

 I might just stick with Bluetooth for Nvidia to my LDAC BT Sony Headphones and so only utilise RME for lossless music by connecting RME to a source device for my LOSSLESS MUSIC - my iPad Pro.


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 8, 2021)

Soundizer said:


> Thanks for help above. I am trying to find a discussion thread which details audio bit rate for popular TV Streaming Services = Netflix, Prime.
> 
> I might just stick with Bluetooth for Nvidia to my LDAC BT Sony Headphones and so only utilise RME for lossless music by connecting RME to a source device for my LOSSLESS MUSIC - my iPad Pro


Netflix apparently increased its audio bandwidth rates in May of 2019.  There are several write-ups about that, here is one of them:
https://decider.com/2019/05/08/netflix-audio-quality/


----------



## Soundizer

watchpocket said:


> Netflix apparently increased its audio bandwidth rates in May of 2019.  There are several write-ups about that, here is one of them:
> https://decider.com/2019/05/08/netflix-audio-quality/


Thank you.

is the App screenshot below the correct App for Shield to support bit perfect playback.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro&hl=en_GB&gl=US


----------



## TK33

Soundizer said:


> Thank you.
> 
> is the App screenshot below the correct App for Shield to support bit perfect playback.
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro&hl=en_GB&gl=US


Just FYI, UAPP only works for music played through the UAPP application itself (your own files or some streaming services like Qobuz or Tidal). I dont think it would work for Netflix, Prime, Apple Music, Spotify or any other app.  Hopefully they can add more support in the future.  Attached is a screen shot, which shows the available sources (taken on my V60).


----------



## Soundizer

TK33 said:


> Just FYI, UAPP only works for music played through the UAPP application itself (your own files or some streaming services like Qobuz or Tidal). I dont think it would work for Netflix, Prime, Apple Music, Spotify or any other app.  Hopefully they can add more support in the future.  Attached is a screen shot, which shows the available sources (taken on my V60).


Thank you. I only used Shield for TV Streaming Services so it is not beneficial then.

appreciate information me about this


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 9, 2021)

Soundizer said:


> Thank you.
> 
> is the App screenshot below the correct App for Shield to support bit perfect playback.
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro&hl=en_GB&gl=US


My pleasure.  Yes, that is *USB Audio Player Pro*.  It's the one you want.  It'll cost, I believe, four or five dollars.

Actually, what I think you will need to do is _first_ buy and download the app, which is version 5.9.9.9, but when you side-load it into your Shield (which you can do in a fairly hassle-free way -- unlike some other side-load methods -- with "*Mibox APK Installer for Android TV*," which will also cost a few dollars), UAPP will give you a message that says _"License check has failed."_ And it won't open. (This is what happened to me.)

What you do _then_ is write the developer at *support@extreamsd.com*, tell him this, and he'll send you a beta version 6.0.0.8 or -9 or whatever it's up to now.  Install that, and it will work.

Beware that the beta will only work for one week.  When it stops working, just write the the dev again and he'll send you an updated version that will work for another week.

He will tell you that there's a way you can just increase the version number of the apk you have, but right now I forget the details of exactly when, where and how you do the increase-number thing so that it will work.

Also know that although UAPP will indeed provide you with bit-perfect sound, it isn't fully supported for Android TV, which means it's operation is a tad wonky.  For example, I've found that in a list, say, of albums, the album you've selected is not highlighted, so you can't tell where you are in the list. And some other things like that.  You have to move around a bit more than usual to know where you are in the app.

UAPP is apparently is made by one guy, and he told me it would take him several extra months to provide support for Android TV, implying that this was not something that's on his to-do list.

For bit-perfect audio on the Shield, you can also try using the *Sony Music Center *app, also *JRiver*, both of which will also have to be side-loaded.

When you side-load an app, it doesn't show up in the regular app list.  You need to get the app "*Sideload Launcher*" and all your side-loaded apps will show there (along with some non-side-loaded apps.)

Good luck!


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 9, 2021)

Soundizer said:


> Thank you. I only used Shield for TV Streaming Services so it is not beneficial then.
> 
> appreciate information me about this


You're never going to get any super-hi-rez bit-perfect audio from Netflix, et al. anyway. 

Those services will still play through your DAC, most likely at 24/192 or maybe 32/192 but no higher, so there's no point in trying to have them play through UAPP.  I use UAPP mainly to play FLAC and DSD music files. 

From my perspective, there's little point in having a good DAC if you don't have at least a few albums on DSD, or other very hi-rez playback formats.


----------



## enb141

watchpocket said:


> You're never going to get any super-hi-rez bit-perfect audio from Netflix, et al. anyway.
> 
> Those services will still play through your DAC, most likely at 24/192 or maybe 32/192 but no higher, so there's no point in trying to have them play through UAPP.  I use UAPP mainly to play FLAC and DSD music files.
> 
> From my perspective, there's little point in having a good DAC if you don't have at least a few albums on DSD, or other very hi-rez playback formats.


Not just that, I've found that some 24/192 are not necessarily good quality either, some are LP rips with bad quality, so, yes you need good quality audio files if you are going to buy a good DAC.

Netflix doesn't has good quality stereo or 5.1 audio streams. Neither Disney, Amazon, etc. 

If you want good audio for movies/series get Blu-Rays, for music get good DSD or PCM 24/96 (good quality ones) and up.


----------



## Iggnasty

watchpocket said:


> From my perspective, there's little point in having a good DAC if you don't have at least a few albums on DSD, or other very hi-rez playback formats.


I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the mastering matters more then the rate when comparing CD SQ to High-Rez DSD. I also believe a good DAC will sound better than an ”ok” DAC even when playing CD quality FLAC files.


----------



## enb141

Iggnasty said:


> I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the mastering matters more then the rate when comparing CD SQ to High-Rez DSD. I also believe a good DAC will sound better than an ”ok” DAC even when playing CD quality FLAC files.


Yes, CD quality will sound better on a good DAC, but netflix and all those streaming services use dolby digital = multichannel mp3, that's the problem.


----------



## watchpocket

Iggnasty said:


> I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the mastering matters more then the rate when comparing CD SQ to High-Rez DSD. I also believe a good DAC will sound better than an ”ok” DAC even when playing CD quality FLAC files.


Fair enough, though I think the mastering and the rate -- and everything else along the chain -- are of roughly equal importance.


----------



## Iggnasty

watchpocket said:


> Fair enough, though I think the mastering and the rate -- and everything else along the chain -- are of roughly equal importance.


I was referring to DAC and audio format: Definitely not going into to that 🐇 🕳


----------



## watchpocket (Sep 11, 2021)

I'm a little unclear about the difference, in the RME ADI-2 DAC FS, between _*DoP*_ and *DSD Direct* modes.

*EDIT:  
Update:  This page answered my question: 
https://ifi-audio.com/faqs/dop-versus-asio-native-what-are-the-differences-similarities/  ]*

In DoP mode, when I'm playing a DSD file, USB Audio Player Pro shows me what I expect to see, that the DSF file is a DSD64 file that plays at a sample rate of 2.8MHz, and that its bit-depth is one bit:
_USB DAC: DSD 2.8MHz  DSF: DSD 2.8MHz 1bit_

But in DSD Direct mode, UAPP shows me this:
_USB DAC: *352.8kHz*  DSF: DSD 2.8MHz 1bit_


----------



## Flash676

Has anyone in the US found a store selling the ESS version?  The few places I've asked were either unaware of the change or stated they haven't received the new version yet.


----------



## DarginMahkum (Oct 31, 2022)

Deleted.


----------



## DarginMahkum

I am thinking of getting something like this with 12V DC out, to make the ADI-2 more mobile around the house. Has anyone tried it or a similar powerbank?

https://www.litionite.com/product/tanker/


----------



## lowvolume

DarginMahkum said:


> I am thinking of getting something like this with 12V DC out, to make the ADI-2 more mobile around the house. Has anyone tried it or a similar powerbank?
> 
> https://www.litionite.com/product/tanker/


From the horse's mouth:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25745


----------



## DarginMahkum

lowvolume said:


> From the horse's mouth:
> 
> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25745


Thank you for that! Somehow I missed that post. I think I will go with the 3S2P 18650 configuration. Cheers.


----------



## Verificateur

Could anyone recommend a reliable/quality adapter to use 4.4mm headphones with the RME ADI-2 DAC's 1/4" output?
Looking for a high quality and transparent solution, if anyone has any recommendations for an adapter that impacts the SQ as little as possible.


----------



## DarginMahkum

lowvolume said:


> From the horse's mouth:
> 
> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25745


Cool, I ordered a 3S3P battery pack. I use the PEQ, crossfeed etc., so let's see how long it is going to last. I will report back hopefully soon.


----------



## drews

Verificateur said:


> Could anyone recommend a reliable/quality adapter to use 4.4mm headphones with the RME ADI-2 DAC's 1/4" output?
> Looking for a high quality and transparent solution, if anyone has any recommendations for an adapter that impacts the SQ as little as possible.


I'm using this: https://www.amazon.com/6-35mm-Headphone-Earphone-Adapter-Balanced/dp/B0828LSX54


----------



## DarginMahkum (Sep 28, 2021)

I just received my 3S3P battery pack. Unfortunately the connector was missing but managed to find one at home. Now I have a gorgeous sounding "movable" DAC/DSP/amp!


----------



## DarginMahkum

What a coincidence. Also received the ESS DAC today. As expected, no audible difference. This one goes to the living room for driving the active speakers and occasional HP'ing.


----------



## robm321

Did you compare balanced out vs single ended. If so, I'd be curious if you notice a difference.


----------



## hillbilly559

I was wondering if anyone is playing SACDs through the RMI?
I am going from a Sony XA5400ES player to the RMI, then to a Woo WA22.
Most of my CDs are Redbook, but I have a few SACDs. With the hybrid SACDs, I get no output from the RME.
Are there any settings I can change to make them audible?


----------



## DarginMahkum

robm321 said:


> Did you compare balanced out vs single ended. If so, I'd be curious if you notice a difference.


I didn't notice any audible change other than the power.


----------



## valkyrieorion

I am thinking of getting this for some Adam A5X speakers and HD 660s. I rarely use the headphones but will the RME mute the XLR (and RCA) outputs to the speakers if you plug in headphones automatically? Also can you leave the headphones plugged in and just switch between outputs? I was thinking of a Schiit Jot 2 but I like that the RME has the option of Optical or USB inputs. ( MY Fiio K5 Pro has brutal noise from my PC with USB or Optical but I am a little nervous only getting a DAC with USB input).
Also does anyone know what the warranty period is in Canada by chance. I couldn't see a specific length in the RME manual.


----------



## enb141

valkyrieorion said:


> I am thinking of getting this for some Adam A5X speakers and HD 660s. I rarely use the headphones but will the RME mute the XLR (and RCA) outputs to the speakers if you plug in headphones automatically? Also can you leave the headphones plugged in and just switch between outputs? I was thinking of a Schiit Jot 2 but I like that the RME has the option of Optical or USB inputs. ( MY Fiio K5 Pro has brutal noise from my PC with USB or Optical but I am a little nervous only getting a DAC with USB input).
> Also does anyone know what the warranty period is in Canada by chance. I couldn't see a specific length in the RME manual.


My RME AIO doesn't mutes the other output (XLR or RCA) when you plug a headphone in the phones output, you can have both sounding at the same time.

Yes you can switch between outputs (with my RME AIO).

RME European so by European law they have at least 2 years warranty, so I suggest you to buy it from them so you can get at least 2 years in case that in Canada gives just one year.


----------



## TK33

enb141 said:


> My RME AIO doesn't mutes the other output (XLR or RCA) when you plug a headphone in the phones output, you can have both sounding at the same time.
> 
> Yes you can switch between outputs (with my RME AIO).
> 
> RME European so by European law they have at least 2 years warranty, so I suggest you to buy it from them so you can get at least 2 years in case that in Canada gives just one year.


@valkyrieorion you can turn toggling between phones/line on or off (i.e. you can set it to mute or not mute line out when headphones are plugged in).  It is configured in settings (i believe the setting is called mute line).


----------



## valkyrieorion

TK33 said:


> @valkyrieorion you can turn toggling between phones/line on or off (i.e. you can set it to mute or not mute line out when headphones are plugged in).  It is configured in settings (i believe the setting is called mute line).


Thank you both for confirming and informative responses. I did get an email from the Canadian distributor already this morning and it is a 2 year warranty in Canada also.


----------



## TheRH

Will the RME power a pair of DCA Closed Backs's ok?


----------



## DarginMahkum

TheRH said:


> Will the RME power a pair of DCA Closed Backs's ok?


It drives my Stealth wonderfully, but I didn't try the others.


----------



## Progisus

TheRH said:


> Will the RME power a pair of DCA Closed Backs's ok?


Although some may disagree, I find rme powers my HD800s just fine. The rme has a good amp section.


----------



## Soundizer

Does anyone know what this flash update does:
Date 2021-09-30 


Mac OS Flash Update Tool for MADIface XT/USB/Pro, OctaMic XTC, ADI-2 Pro Series & DAC, Digiface USB/Dante, UFX II

Update to version MADIface XT: 191/56/42, USB: 25, Pro 73. OctaMic XTC: 47/26. ADI-2 Pro: 254/102, ADI-2 DAC: 66/41, Digiface USB: 18, Dante: 39, UFX II: 22/14/9.
*2021-09-30 *
fut_madiface_mac.zip


----------



## betula

Progisus said:


> Although some may disagree, I find rme powers my HD800s just fine. The rme has a good amp section.


RME has a decent amp section if your budget for a DAC and amp is below 1K. If you can double that, the improvements will be obvious: tighter, cleaner bass and overall sound, better staging, more air and instrument separation, better dynamics and so on. Of course, whether if it is worth it, comes down to the individual.


----------



## TK33

TheRH said:


> Will the RME power a pair of DCA Closed Backs's ok?


Drives my Aeon 2 Noire just fine.  I am usually at -58 to -55 volume in lo-power mode (with the caveat that I think I tend to listen at lower volume than most).


----------



## ThEvil0nE

Anyone pairing their FS v2 with Violectric? V280 fe can still be had but am looking at the new V340 too. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


----------



## Soundizer

My RME is incredible with my Focal Clear MG. 

i use the EQ to slightly increase low end base and reduce 2k-4k.
+1db Base and -1db Treble.

it is excellent.


----------



## Soundizer

Is there Opinion on USB vs OPTICAL as preferred connection to RME-ADI 2?

I know some DACS such as Chord Mojo has is better via Optical compared to its USB.


----------



## Golyatx

Soundizer said:


> My RME is incredible with my Focal Clear MG.
> 
> i use the EQ to slightly increase low end base and reduce 2k-4k.
> +1db Base and -1db Treble.
> ...


used this but 2,5db (og Clears), excelent pairing


----------



## Soundizer

Golyatx said:


> used this but 2,5db (og Clears), excelent pairing


Thank you. 2.5 db+ on Base?


----------



## Another Audiophile

Personally I am done with it. It's just too complicated for me. Let me know if anyone in London UK is interested buying a 7 months old RME in mint condition.


----------



## Golyatx

Soundizer said:


> Thank you. 2.5 db+ on Base?


yes on 105hz i think


----------



## Soundizer

Golyatx said:


> yes on 105hz i think


Ok. What about Base db? Are you using Base/Treble?


----------



## Soundizer

Anyone know the frequency range per EQ Colour Band.


----------



## Golyatx

Soundizer said:


> Ok. What about Base db? Are you using Base/Treble?


I only used +2,5db low shelf (bass boost on rme or normal via eq) and -2db on 2khz i think.. but it was original focal clear, not mg


----------



## Soundizer

Golyatx said:


> I only used +2,5db low shelf (bass boost on rme or normal via eq) and -2db on 2khz i think.. but it was original focal clear, not mg


Got it. Do we need to change anything in Low Power mode with Focal Clear? I seen references to Low Power mode in the manual and not sure if that is for Full Size headphones like Focal Clear or for IEM’s.


----------



## Golyatx

Soundizer said:


> Got it. Do we need to change anything in Low Power mode with Focal Clear? I seen references to Low Power mode in the manual and not sure if that is for Full Size headphones like Focal Clear or for IEM’s.



Just use the 6,3 jack and it should swap automaticaly between low power end high power depending on volume. Break point is about - 25+- i think


----------



## Slaphead

Another Audiophile said:


> Personally I am done with it. It's just too complicated for me. Let me know if anyone in London UK is interested buying a 7 months old RME in mint condition.


It's only as complicated as you allow it to be. Sure there are a lot of functions on it, and I'll give you that some are somewhat unintuitive, but if you just ignore all those extra functions you can just power on, plug in headphones and press play.

With regards to the extra functions then I'm in the camp of it's better to have it and not need it than not have it and need it. I used the the channel polarity inverter once and once only, but I needed it to listen to something where the channels were out of phase, and I was so pleased that I could do it with the RME.

That said, just because the device gives you the ability to adjust everything to the n'th degree certainly doesn't mean you have to, or should do.

I've had mine for nearly 3 years and never really bothered with the advanced functions, apart from that one time.


----------



## betula

Slaphead said:


> It's only as complicated as you allow it to be. Sure there are a lot of functions on it, and I'll give you that some are somewhat unintuitive, but if you just ignore all those extra functions you can just power on, plug in headphones and press play.
> 
> With regards to the extra functions then I'm in the camp of it's better to have it and not need it than not have it and need it. I used the the channel polarity inverter once and once only, but I needed it to listen to something where the channels were out of phase, and I was so pleased that I could do it with the RME.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. I do not need most of the functions on the RME, but I do use quite a few of them and it is great to have even more options in case I buy new headphones and I might need them.
Once you spend 5 minutes reading the relevant sections in the handbook, it is actually not that crazy complicated to use any of the functions. 
Of course, if you do not use something for a few weeks or months (like tuning the loudness function for example) you might have to read it again but it is really not that big of a time investment if you consider what you gain.


----------



## Another Audiophile

Slaphead said:


> It's only as complicated as you allow it to be. Sure there are a lot of functions on it, and I'll give you that some are somewhat unintuitive, but if you just ignore all those extra functions you can just power on, plug in headphones and press play.
> 
> With regards to the extra functions then I'm in the camp of it's better to have it and not need it than not have it and need it. I used the the channel polarity inverter once and once only, but I needed it to listen to something where the channels were out of phase, and I was so pleased that I could do it with the RME.
> 
> ...


I see your point. If I am not gonna use the functions then I’d rather have the chord Qutest on my desk. As a headphone amplifier the RME is ok. I have the Qutest and probably will sell the RME and buy a very good headphone amplifier.


----------



## Nikonkit

Another Audiophile said:


> I see your point. If I am not gonna use the functions then I’d rather have the chord Qutest on my desk. As a headphone amplifier the RME is ok. I have the Qutest and probably will sell the RME and buy a very good headphone amplifier.


I had both at one stage, the RME is overall competent and drove my HD800s reasonably well but the Qutest has more clarity, shaped the notes somewhat better. Of course the latter when you add on a reasonably good amp costs more but even something inexpensive like the Lakepeople G111 the combination will bring the sound quality up a couple of notches above that of the RME alone. Apples vs oranges you may say but there is a difference if you are pursing that performance increase


----------



## shawty552 (Oct 11, 2021)

Almost ready to pull the trigger and get the ADI-2, but have one question I'm hoping someone can answer for me:

Are EQ bands 1-3 fully adjustable all the way down to 20Hz? The manual (confusingly) states that bands 1-5 are "adjustable from 20 Hz (200 Hz bands 4/5) to 20.0 kHz", but I'm in doubt as to whether it means bands 2 through 5 go down to 200Hz or if it's only bands 4 and 5. I'm particularly picky about the high bass range and would like to EQ this properly. Thanks

Edit: Found the answer to my own question in this review - bands 1-3 all go down to 20Hz. Amazing, can't wait to play with this piece of kit.


----------



## Slaphead

shawty552 said:


> Almost ready to pull the trigger and get the ADI-2, but have one question I'm hoping someone can answer for me:
> 
> Are EQ bands 1-3 fully adjustable all the way down to 20Hz? The manual (confusingly) states that bands 1-5 are "adjustable from 20 Hz (200 Hz bands 4/5) to 20.0 kHz", but I'm in doubt as to whether it means bands 2 through 5 go down to 200Hz or if it's only bands 4 and 5. I'm particularly picky about the high bass range and would like to EQ this properly. Thanks
> 
> Edit: Found the answer to my own question in this review -* bands 1-3 all go down to 20Hz. Amazing, can't wait to play with this piece of kit.*


https://www.armadamusic.com/university/music-production-articles/eq-explained-the-basics - Basic EQ 101

Forgive me if you already know what you're doing, but what you've written scares the hell out of me.


----------



## shawty552

Could have written this a bit clearer sorry, English isn’t my first language, but I’m very aware of how an eq works. I’m a music producer with multiple releases under my belt, I’m just also a basshead and want a DAC that can replicate an eq curve I currently do in Waves Q8 thru Audio Hijack on Mac OS.

I have a low shelf at around 80Hz all the way up at 12dB and another bell at around 50Hz for that extra “club PA” punch. I’m not an audiophile; I just want lots of bass, and was afraid I could only do the low shelf at sub-200Hz


----------



## Slaphead

shawty552 said:


> Could have written this a bit clearer sorry, English isn’t my first language, *but I’m very aware of how an eq works. I’m a music producer with multiple releases under my belt,* I’m just also a basshead and want a DAC that can replicate an eq curve I currently do in Waves Q8 thru Audio Hijack on Mac OS.
> 
> I have a low shelf at around 80Hz all the way up at 12dB and another bell at around 50Hz for that extra “club PA” punch. I’m not an audiophile; I just want lots of bass, and was afraid I could only do the low shelf at sub-200Hz


OK that's really cool, It's just that there are so many people on here who's only knowledge of EQ is at a level that makes them dangerous, and when I saw 3 PEQ bands down at 20Hz chills went down my spine.

No need to apologise about your English - you're from Denmark which means, in my experience, that you already speak English at a higher level than most mother tongue English speakers, and I am one.

By the way I am, or was, a hobby producer, also with multiple releases, on soundcloud, which most people either laugh at or cause them to provide me with entertaining death threats, well those that survive listening do


----------



## tommykrebs

At the moment I hear music with my UM Mest IEM's/Hiby R6 pro only. Will I get improvement (sound) if I use the RME Adi-2 instead of the Hiby? So, is the RME Adi better than my DAP or does it only make sense to buy one if I use Headphones?


----------



## Forsaked

Does somebody uses Roon + HQPlayer with the ADI-2?
I am fine using PCM upsampling with sinc-M/sinc-L + LNS15 without a problem, but as soon i output DSD256 with poly-sinc-ext2 + ASDM7EC, i get dropouts every 2 seconds.
This doesn't happen if upsample inside Roon to DSD256 instead of HQPlayer.


----------



## shawty552

Bought this yesterday. Might be my favorite hi-fi related purchase, ever. It's that good. Only problem now is that eventually I'll have to replace all my other DACs with RMEs.


----------



## Verificateur (Oct 14, 2021)

shawty552 said:


> Bought this yesterday. Might be my favorite hi-fi related purchase, ever. It's that good. Only problem now is that eventually I'll have to replace all my other DACs with RMEs.


Congratulations!! 

Are you using the RME as your headphone amplifier as well? 

In other words, are you happy with the all-in-one function, or are you planning on adding a separate head amp to the RME?


----------



## shawty552 (Oct 14, 2021)

Verificateur said:


> Congratulations!!
> 
> Are you using the RME as your headphone amplifier as well?
> 
> In other words, are you happy with the all-in-one function, or are you planning on adding a separate head amp to the RME?


I'm using it as a headphone amplifier, yes, with a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 250Ohm, mainly. Without EQ, it can drive them louder than I can bear listening to - and I like to listen loud!

When I add EQ and bass boost however, I can sense the limits of the amp, but only when I want to listen really loud. And when I mean really loud here, I'm talking just shy of club PA system levels of bass. It can definitely make the cans vibrate on your ears!

I listen to mainly electronic music and hip-hop so I'm very picky about bass and it has indeed satisfied me. When I crank it all the way, I can hear the drivers in my DT770s distort from what I think is them hitting the plastic shielding in front of them. This is all with about -2dB of headroom left on the ADI-2, so if it indeed isn't clipping, an amp wouldn't be of any use if the headphones themselves can't handle more volume. However I'm not sure as to whether this is because I'm reaching the limits of the amp or my cans.

On my other pairs of lower-impedance headphones (Grado SR125, Sennheiser HD25, Sennheiser HD280, Sony XB700, Slate VSX), there is PLENTY of power - I haven't even gone above -15dB with the bass boost activated for fear of ruining their drivers.

But for 200+Ohm headphones, if you're a basshead and like to listen loud, an amp probably wouldn't hurt. 200Ohm seems to be the ceiling for the amp in this, I would not be satisfied if i had 600Ohm headphones without an external amp. But in the end, you're buying this for the absolutely brilliant DAC and DSP - if you or your cans are power hungry, it only just scratches that itch.

I was actually shopping for an amp but ended buying this instead, and despite not having all the output power in the world at my disposal, both the EQ and DAC more than make up for it. My Beyers sound like they cost three times as much. Even my non-discerning girlfriend thought the difference between the ADI-2 and my old DAC was night and day, so you know the DAC in this thing is absolutely bonkers. It's a cliche, but I have found myself yet again rediscovering my music library.

Also related to all this – I'm very impressed with the metering on the unit, as it displays the output volume post-fader so you get a reading of the actual headroom left in the amp after all DSP operations and even the volume knob.

I'm going to bring the DT770s and ADI-2 along with me to a hi-fi shop tomorrow and see what (if any) improvements an amp might bring. Will report back.

But TL;DR: if you're listening on 250Ohm cans and don't want hearing loss, it's more than adequate. If you loooooove loud music (bring on the hate brigade), consider pairing it with an amp later on, and you're honestly set for life.


----------



## Glokta

shawty552 said:


> I'm using it as a headphone amplifier, yes, with a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 250Ohm, mainly. Without EQ, it can drive them louder than I can bear listening to - and I like to listen loud!


Are you using the high power mode?


----------



## shawty552

Glokta said:


> Are you using the high power mode?


Yes, unfortunately. I would love if this wasn't the case tho


----------



## NickT23

Hello am interested in RME ADI 2 FS and is it recommended for sound quality apart from endless of features ? I feel like all dac are the same. Like whats the difference between all neutral dac and other dac...


----------



## Matias

shawty552 said:


> Yes, unfortunately. I would love if this wasn't the case tho


There is always the ADI-2 Pro and use both outputs as balanced for extra power.


----------



## Glokta

NickT23 said:


> Hello am interested in RME ADI 2 FS and is it recommended for sound quality apart from endless of features ? I feel like all dac are the same. Like whats the difference between all neutral dac and other dac...


You sound like my wife. "All coffee tastes the same." Guess what, it doesn't. But if you don't have the taste buds for it or your brain refuses to acknowledge the differences then by all means, buy the cheapest one and be a happy camper. 
To answer your question, yes, the sound quality is very good for the price, especially if you count all the features in.


----------



## betula

Glokta said:


> You sound like my wife. "All coffee tastes the same." Guess what, it doesn't. But if you don't have the taste buds for it or your brain refuses to acknowledge the differences then by all means, buy the cheapest one and be a happy camper.
> To answer your question, yes, the sound quality is very good for the price, especially if you count all the features in.


I love the coffee analogy. It is so true.


----------



## NickT23

Glokta said:


> You sound like my wife. "All coffee tastes the same." Guess what, it doesn't. But if you don't have the taste buds for it or your brain refuses to acknowledge the differences then by all means, buy the cheapest one and be a happy camper.
> To answer your question, yes, the sound quality is very good for the price, especially if you count all the features in.


Am not asking about whether sound good with the price. Am referring to this dac versus more expensive dac sound wise ? Without taking features into consideration


----------



## NickT23

shawty552 said:


> I'm using it as a headphone amplifier, yes, with a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 250Ohm, mainly. Without EQ, it can drive them louder than I can bear listening to - and I like to listen loud!
> 
> When I add EQ and bass boost however, I can sense the limits of the amp, but only when I want to listen really loud. And when I mean really loud here, I'm talking just shy of club PA system levels of bass. It can definitely make the cans vibrate on your ears!
> 
> ...


Hello any news ? What is your impression ?


----------



## Glokta

NickT23 said:


> Am not asking about whether sound good with the price. Am referring to this dac versus more expensive dac sound wise ? Without taking features into consideration


This being my secondary setup, I haven't really compared it to many dacs in this price range apart from the Chord Qutest. They're different in presentation and for what type of music I listen the RME was better, better bass and highs extension, a bit colder but better defined, the downside is that it has a rather flat soundstage, the Qutest has more depth and layering.


----------



## skhan007

Question for anybody knowledgeable about the ADI-2 and BluRay/DVD audio:

I recently bought a CD that came with a bonus DVD disc of the album in lossless 24/48 and 24/96. I noted that when I try to play the latter (which is 5.1) the ADI-2 gives me an error message stating "non-audio signal at SPDF" or something like that. Not sure if there are settings I need to adjust on the ADI-2 or this is just a limitation of the unit. The audio comes out of the TV just fine (via HDMI) and the ADI-2 is receiving digital signal from the BluRay player via the SPDF coax input.


----------



## captblaze

skhan007 said:


> Question for anybody knowledgeable about the ADI-2 and BluRay/DVD audio:
> 
> I recently bought a CD that came with a bonus DVD disc of the album in lossless 24/48 and 24/96. I noted that when I try to play the latter (which is 5.1) the ADI-2 gives me an error message stating "non-audio signal at SPDF" or something like that. Not sure if there are settings I need to adjust on the ADI-2 or this is just a limitation of the unit. The audio comes out of the TV just fine (via HDMI) and the ADI-2 is receiving digital signal from the BluRay player via the SPDF coax input.


ADI-2 DAC is 2 channel and you are asking to decode 5.1


----------



## skhan007

captblaze said:


> ADI-2 DAC is 2 channel and you are asking to decode 5.1


Got it. Makes sense. On a sidenote, 24/48 sounds amazing!


----------



## NickT23

Glokta said:


> This being my secondary setup, I haven't really compared it to many dacs in this price range apart from the Chord Qutest. They're different in presentation and for what type of music I listen the RME was better, better bass and highs extension, a bit colder but better defined, the downside is that it has a rather flat soundstage, the Qutest has more depth and layering.


Hi not surprise of what you said and couldnt have agree more even if I never heard the RME. Since RME is for professional flat audio that can be use for audiophile listening hence, its flatter presentation while very revealing especially micro details. While the Qutest is more analog sounding. I heard the Hugo2 by the way. 

I ask because am very curious and am interested in the RME as well. Very complete dac, however MQA and bluetooth are missing. Could use a much more power better measuring amp section for its amp/dac combo. In my opinion of course.


----------



## NickT23

sikki-six said:


> I'm very, very pleased with ADI-2 DAC after about two weeks of use. The *DAC *is clean and non-fatiguing with a very nice sense of space. For such a small unit, I'm surprised RME managed to fit such a nice amp-section in there too. I've mostly listened to my HD600 and *the amp* for me sounds better than my Lyr 2 (with LISSTs, connected into the line-outs): way snappier & tighter low-end and much less hazy/grainy sound overall. Lyr 2 sounds slightly darker, kind of more romantic (some might like this?) with less instrument separation and generally less detailed. Schiit puts out more subs and bass overall, but it's messier. Bass guitars are easier to follow with the ADI-amp. Differences aren't huge, but speed & clarity go to RME quite easily. I've mostly listened to rock, metal, pop, acoustic, hip-hop etc.
> 
> And yeah, I'm loving the usability and overall awesome features of this device. The bass/treble controls on the front panel are a breeze to use when listening to thin/trebly/bloated/etc. mixes or when tired. Tried the EQ too briefly and found it easy to get around.
> 
> I still have some extensive listening (and EQing) to do with *LCD-2* and *HD800* especially, I'll report back!


Does the amp section good enough to power the HD800 and LCD-2 ? Would be even more awesome if they have MQA and bluetooth connectivity as well as powerful amp. Maybe can change the lights at the knob and power button with different colour to our heart content. Almost a perfect dac you could ask for.


----------



## NickT23

technobear said:


> You just have to use ASIO to get the sample rate to change automatically.


Hi do you still own the Hugo2 ? How does it sounds compare to the RME ADI 2 ?


----------



## enb141

skhan007 said:


> Question for anybody knowledgeable about the ADI-2 and BluRay/DVD audio:
> 
> I recently bought a CD that came with a bonus DVD disc of the album in lossless 24/48 and 24/96. I noted that when I try to play the latter (which is 5.1) the ADI-2 gives me an error message stating "non-audio signal at SPDF" or something like that. Not sure if there are settings I need to adjust on the ADI-2 or this is just a limitation of the unit. The audio comes out of the TV just fine (via HDMI) and the ADI-2 is receiving digital signal from the BluRay player via the SPDF coax input.


The only way to decode 5.1 is using a receiver via S/PDIF and you are limited to DD+ DTS which is a mp3 320 bps per channel, don't waste your time with multi channel S/PDIF, even in stereo you are limited to 24/192.


----------



## technobear

NickT23 said:


> Hi do you still own the Hugo2 ? How does it sounds compare to the RME ADI 2 ?


Better in every way.

I still use the ADI-2 DAC for my AV system as it deals with room correction but for pure music listening, it's the Hugo 2 and T1 every time.


----------



## arielext

NickT23 said:


> I ask because am very curious and am interested in the RME as well. Very complete dac, however MQA and bluetooth are missing. Could use a much more power better measuring amp section for its amp/dac combo. In my opinion of course.


Both mqa and bluetooth degrade the sound (except for those 2 mqa files out there. Let's not go down the rabbit hole). For what purpose do you need a better measuring amp? To get the best out of those Bluetooth streams?


----------



## NickT23

arielext said:


> Both mqa and bluetooth degrade the sound (except for those 2 mqa files out there. Let's not go down the rabbit hole). For what purpose do you need a better measuring amp? To get the best out of those Bluetooth streams?


Hello I dint know that. But how can you assure that both MQA and bluetooth connectivity degrade the sound, cant it be two seperate channels and design that does not affect the implementation of the Dac design ? MQA chip slotted inside separately from its AKM chip anyway. Powerful neutral measuring amp, so that we do not need to rely on an external amp if we were to use power hungry plannar, for instance LCD 4. Just saying...

Yes... MQA is hard to find.


----------



## NickT23

technobear said:


> Better in every way.
> 
> I still use the ADI-2 DAC for my AV system as it deals with room correction but for pure music listening, it's the Hugo 2 and T1 every time.


You mean the Hugo 2 is better than your ADI-2 in your opinion ? Like how and what do you mean ?


----------



## technobear

NickT23 said:


> You mean the Hugo 2 is better than your ADI-2 in your opinion ? Like how and what do you mean ?


When I say 'in every way', what I actually mean is 'in every way'. Whatever measurement. Whatever listening criteria. Hugo 2 does it better.

If my TV recorder could do room correction then the Hugo 2 would replace the ADI-2 DAC in a heartbeat.

Not that the ADI-2 DAC is especially bad in any way. It's a great piece for the price. I gather it improves with a better power supply but I haven't tried. It still won't beat the Hugo 2 though. How could it? It's a chip DAC. It has the same flaws as all chip DACs. They are too much an approximation and get too many things wrong so they end up sounding hard/harsh/ squeaky/squealy/metallic depending on what you are listening to. ADI-2 DAC is a bit 2 dimensional too. Hugo 2 is how digital audio conversion should be done, as per the original Nyquist-Shannon theory. TT2 and Dave and MScaler take it even further and are more accurate still. And then there's the jitter-immune pulse array DAC on top. I realise I'm sounding like a real fanboy here but I am deeply impressed with the Chord. It doesn't annoy me in the way my other DACs too often do, including the RME.


----------



## Another Audiophile

To be honest even my mojo with poly combo sounds better than the RME. At least that has been my experience.


----------



## NickT23

technobear said:


> When I say 'in every way', what I actually mean is 'in every way'. Whatever measurement. Whatever listening criteria. Hugo 2 does it better.
> 
> If my TV recorder could do room correction then the Hugo 2 would replace the ADI-2 DAC in a heartbeat.
> 
> Not that the ADI-2 DAC is especially bad in any way. It's a great piece for the price. I gather it improves with a better power supply but I haven't tried. It still won't beat the Hugo 2 though. How could it? It's a chip DAC. It has the same flaws as all chip DACs. They are too much an approximation and get too many things wrong so they end up sounding hard/harsh/ squeaky/squealy/metallic depending on what you are listening to. ADI-2 DAC is a bit 2 dimensional too. Hugo 2 is how digital audio conversion should be done, as per the original Nyquist-Shannon theory. TT2 and Dave and MScaler take it even further and are more accurate still. And then there's the jitter-immune pulse array DAC on top. I realise I'm sounding like a real fanboy here but I am deeply impressed with the Chord. It doesn't annoy me in the way my other DACs too often do, including the RME.


Its probably because the ADI-2 DAC is a professional tool for audio, not taking away and not adding anything so you have a flat sound while the Chord tend to have more depth and texture rendering in the presentation and sound stage. ADI is more analytical in a way then... ADI is way better in measurement but it does not make it better. We cant hear the difference in noise and distortion ratio. I wish I get to hear side by side. 

On the contrary, you are brit (jokes).


----------



## shawty552 (Oct 19, 2021)

shawty552 said:


> I'm going to bring the DT770s and ADI-2 along with me to a hi-fi shop tomorrow and see what (if any) improvements an amp might bring. Will report back.



Ok so life happened and I didn't have time to do this until today. Went to a local shop that had lots of hi-end headphones and amps in store. I listened to the following:

Amps:
- Grado RA1 (solid-state, €800)
- Feliks Audio Espressivo MK2 (tube, €850)
- Manley Absolute Headphone Amplifier (tube, €5000)
- RME ADI-2 DAC (built-in solid-state headphone amp, €950, own unit)

Headphones:
- Beyerdynamic DT770 250 ohm (own pair, in bad condition)
- Meze 99 Classics, wood finish
- Meze 99 Classics, plastic finish
- Hifiman Ananda
- Hifiman Sundara
- Grado Hemps
- Meze Empyrian
- Audeze LCD-X

Albums listened to:
- Floating Points - Crush (tr: Anasickmodular, LesAlpx, Bias) - 96k uncompressed via Qobuz
- Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp A Butterfly (tr: These Walls, Complexion, Hood Politics) - 44.1k uncompressed via Qobuz
- Trentemøller - The Last Resort (tr: Evil Dub, The Very Last Resort, Into The Trees) - 44.1k uncompressed via Qobuz
- Future - EVOL (tr: Xanny Family, Ain't No Time) - 44.1k uncompressed via Qobuz

The goal of my testing today was to determine whether or not the amp in the RME ADI-2 was powerful enough to drive my DT770s with my preferred EQ curve. When listening at home, at loud levels, I started to hear distortion across the whole spectrum whenever sub-heavy 808 notes hit, despite there being about -3dB headroom left in the RME. My EQ curve has a bell (+6dB @ 50Hz, Q 0.5), a low shelf (+2dB @ 85Hz, Q 0.5), and a high shelf (-4.0dB @ 6.1kHz, Q 0.5) to smooth out the response on the Beyers.

I listen to mainly electronic music and hip-hop and generally lean towards bassy headphones, as my ears already accentuate the treble wayyyy to much. Sometimes I feel like I've been born with the RIAA curve already applied to my ears, so I need to compensate if I want to enjoy music . I like to listen loud - not ear-piercingly loud - but the main point of using headphones instead of speakers to me is so that I can crank it, as I live in an apartment and have had enough of angry neigbours.

Anyway - enough talking - these are my findings:

*The headphone amp is indeed good enough*- it is the headphone drivers themselves that can't handle the sustained bass notes at loud volumes.
When testing on different amps, the same distortion issue happened with the DT770s. So you unfortunately can't transform just any pair of headphones into basshead cans, as most drivers will start crapping out with bass boosts.
The ADI-2 amp is fine for driving 250 Ohm headphones at loud volumes, but only just that. When listening at the loudest level I liked, I approached about -3dB headroom on it.

*I preferred the solid-state Grado RA1 to the tube-based Espressivo MK2*, every time, on every single pair of headphones.
The Espressivo only exaggerated the highs more, and started rolling off some of the sub bass at around 30Hz. The soundstage was better on the tube amp though.
For the listening experience in general, I would pick the Grado amp over the tube amp. As an audio engineer with a huge love for tube-based mic pres, this came as a huge surprise.

*The mids, soundstage and treble on the DT770s is much worse than I expected*when you compare them to other pairs.
Mids are scooped and hard to discern, the soundstage is narrow (which albeit is to be expected of closed cans) and the treble is just harsh compared to every other pair I tried.
I was planning to upgrade these with the DT1770s before going to the shop - now, I'm not so sure…

*The Meze 99 Classics are overrated compared to what you read online*.
The lower midrange is both tubby and imprecise - I had a hard time seperating everything that was happening in the 120-350Hz range, which was also boosted too much for my liking. A very mid-bassy headphone, not so much sub-bassy.
Highs were recessed to my taste, but almost too much. Would not consider using these without an EQ.
Soundstage is pretty much the same as the DT770s, but the DT770s have better bass and are more comfortable to wear for long periods - both pairs are very comfortable though!
Both the 99 Classics and the DT770s need an EQ to sound nice - but after EQing, I preferred the Beyers.

*The Hifiman Sundara exhibited the same distortion at semi-high volumes with the bass boost in place, even on the different amps.*
For planar magnetic headphones priced a good deal above the Beyers, this truly came as a surprise to me, and cemented the fact that this was indeed a headphone driver issue, and not due to the RME amp.

*The Meze Empyreans are the best headphones I've ever listened to*.
After being so disappointed in the 99 Classics, I was NOT expecting this much of a difference in the Empyrians.
Bass was plentiful, even without an EQ: neither tubby or overpowering while remaining extremely precise and voluminous.
Mids. Oh my god, the mids. Incredibly three-dimensional. The seperation here was off the charts and there was no 150Hz boost like on the 99 Classics.
Highs. Not in-your-face, but not recessed either. The dynamics were fantastic. On sharper recordings, they benefitted from a treble cut of about -2dB. Still, the best treble i heard from all the pairs. Not fatiguing at all.
They sound good plugged into the RME, but they really came into their own with an amp. Obviously they sounded the best on the Manley, but the Grado amp held its own.
For headphones that sound better than the LCD-Xs they're also lighter and more comfortable to wear on your head. At 430 grams you don't forget that you're wearing them, but I could definitely envision myself wearing these for long periods of time without neck strain, which I get from the Audezes.
They handled the bass boost gracefully, even at high levels - but honestly, I thought it was too much to boost the lows on these. A slight treble cut is preferable.
€3000  – but when you compare this to a set of hi-fi speakers and amp in the same price range, you're getting more for your money here.

*The Manley amp has no business being that much better than everything else.*
Until trying the insanely expensive Manley Absolute tube amp, nothing had blown me away yet. I didn't think the Grado or Feliks audio amps were a significant enough upgrade from the RME - yes, they sounded a slight bit better, but not the type of difference I would want to pay an additional €800 for.
The Manley, however, is breathtaking. It made both the Empyreans, Hemps and Sundara come into their own - everything was better. Dynamics were more dynamic, bass was more defined and voluminous, and the highs were silky, detailed and much more three-dimensional than I have ever experienced digital audio before.
At €5000, this is completely out of reach for me, and I need to have Will Smith come by and zap me with the memory eraser thing from Men In Black so I can enjoy my current setup again... If you can somehow afford this, this is a no-brainer purchase. But if you're making this kind of money to drop on headphones in the first place, you're probably not reading my low-end basshead thoughts, and are not considering the ADI-2 anyways 


So, to sum up:
The amp in the RME ADI-2 DAC is absolutely fantastic. To approach its limits you need to have headphones that are at least twice as expensive as the DAC itself, and if you're approaching that price range on head-fi gear, you should definitely consider also getting an amp - but don't cheap out on one! If you want a noticeable improvement in sound, you need to consider amps priced above €1000.


----------



## lowvolume

So where is the paragraph decribing the LCD-X?


----------



## NickT23

shawty552 said:


> Ok so life happened and I didn't have time to do this until today. Went to a local shop that had lots of hi-end headphones and amps in store. I listened to the following:
> 
> Amps:
> - Grado RA1 (solid-state, €800)
> ...


HI so in conclusion, do you like the DT 770 pro on the RME-ADI 2. With EQ, do you like it more ?


----------



## NickT23

Another Audiophile said:


> To be honest even my mojo with poly combo sounds better than the RME. At least that has been my experience.


Why do you think so ? What recordings and headphone you paired with ?


----------



## shawty552

lowvolume said:


> So where is the paragraph decribing the LCD-X?


Did not try the LCD-X for more than a couple of minutes as I won’t ever consider them due to their weight. If I can’t wear a pair of headphones all day without strain, they’re of no use to me. They do sound absolutely amazing, and the ADI-2 is more than adequate at driving them.


----------



## shawty552

NickT23 said:


> HI so in conclusion, do you like the DT 770 pro on the RME-ADI 2. With EQ, do you like it more ?


Yes, I do like them very much. I wouldn’t get an amp for the DT770s, the RME powers them just fine.

But compared to stuff that costs 5 times as much, obviously there’s a night and day difference, which I was blissfully unaware of. Like I wrote, the Meze Empyreans are an endgame headphone for me, so compared to those, the DT770s fall flat. I’m honestly considering selling my floorstanding speakers and amp to get the Mezes instead.


----------



## Another Audiophile

I have the LCD-X and the RME. It can drive it without any issues and the amp section of the RME is good enough.


----------



## Slaphead

shawty552 said:


> *Yes, I do like them very much*. I wouldn’t get an amp for the DT770s, the RME powers them just fine.
> 
> But compared to stuff that costs 5 times as much, obviously there’s a night and day difference, which I was blissfully unaware of. Like I wrote, the Meze Empyreans are an endgame headphone for me, so compared to those, the DT770s fall flat. I’m honestly considering selling my floorstanding speakers and amp to get the Mezes instead.


Honestly? My experience of the DT770s is that Beyerdynamic accidently designed the exact kind of interrogation device that would be banned by the Geneva convention for cruel and unusual torture methods.

The treble on those is enough to strip paint of walls at 10 metres - I still have flashbacks and periodic tinnitus from my brief time listening to them.


----------



## shawty552

Slaphead said:


> Honestly? My experience of the DT770s is that Beyerdynamic accidently designed the exact kind of interrogation device that would be banned by the Geneva convention for cruel and unusual torture methods.
> 
> The treble on those is enough to strip paint of walls at 10 metres - I still have flashbacks and periodic tinnitus from my brief time listening to them.


Yeah, I agree, the treble is much too harsh without an EQ but after tweaking them I actually think they sound alright.


----------



## monkey4054

To those who have moved on from the RME, what did you 'upgrade' to? Looking at things like Schiit Yggy and the Matrix X-SABRE. Not sure what's worth it coming from the RME ADI-2. Thanks.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

monkey4054 said:


> To those who have moved on from the RME, what did you 'upgrade' to? Looking at things like Schiit Yggy and the Matrix X-SABRE. Not sure what's worth it coming from the RME ADI-2. Thanks.



I went with the Chord Hugo TT2. I still have and use the RME as well, but to me that was a meaningful, not just incremental upgrade. I've had the TT2 for a year and I don't see myself upgrading further for the foreseeable future.


----------



## valkyrieorion

Question on the RME ADI-2 FS Dac when using it as a pre amp with some Adam A5X speakers. Where would it be recommended to set the volume dial on the Adam speakers as I want the fine control of the volume to be from the RME. My RME is on order but is "somewhere" in shipping right now.


----------



## Matias

valkyrieorion said:


> Question on the RME ADI-2 FS Dac when using it as a pre amp with some Adam A5X speakers. Where would it be recommended to set the volume dial on the Adam speakers as I want the fine control of the volume to be from the RME. My RME is on order but is "somewhere" in shipping right now.


If I were you I would control volume on the ADI-2 DAC and keep the volume on the Adam A5X fixed, probably at 12 o'clock or even lower maybe 9 o'clock.


----------



## captblaze

valkyrieorion said:


> Question on the RME ADI-2 FS Dac when using it as a pre amp with some Adam A5X speakers. Where would it be recommended to set the volume dial on the Adam speakers as I want the fine control of the volume to be from the RME. My RME is on order but is "somewhere" in shipping right now.


right from RME forums - https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=161721#p161721


----------



## valkyrieorion

Thanks for those replies that helps a lot. I see the RME as a nice clean interface for the speakers and with a headphone output for the couple times a week I use headphones. I am getting a little bit of buyers remorse while waiting for them reading things like it being "sterile" or  "cold" though. I guess I've had a hard time even seeing differences between various setups I have had  over the years when I AB test things for the most part so I probably should just wait for it to arrive.


----------



## dogrelata (Oct 27, 2021)

@VRacer-111 or any other Stax users.  So far I've only managed to read the first 60 pages but I'd like to ask a fairly basic question.  I'm running  L700 Mk II with SRM-252S, but looking for a used 353X.

I've currently got a QuteHD and am naturally interested in the Qutest.  I've recently missed out on a couple of used Qutests that were selling for around the same as new ADI-2 FS.

The RME looks interesting and I might order it from a dealer with good return terms to see how I feel about it.  "Feel" is the key word here.  I'm of an age where the idea of not wanting to spend two or three weeks messing around with a myriad of options has little appeal.  I'd just want to turn it on with standard settings and absorb what I'm hearing and decide if it's for me.  I appreciate that much of the attraction of this product is the functionality and if I did keep it, I'd no doubt start 'playing' with some of them.  It would be an added bonus.

So the question is, does anyone have impressions of how the ADI-2 compares using the _factory settings_ in realation to _any _of the Qute lineage?

Thanks.


----------



## Another Audiophile (Oct 27, 2021)

dogrelata said:


> @VRacer-111 or any other Stax users.  So far I've only managed to read the first 60 pages but I'd like to ask a fairly basic question.
> 
> I've currently got a QuteHD and am naturally interested in the Qutest.  I've recently missed out on a couple of used Qutests that were selling for around the same as new ADI-2 FS.
> 
> ...


Got a qutest because the RME was bit complicated for me and my use case. If flexibility is your aim then the RME is way more versatile. Also it has xlr out which was the reason I bought it (to run long cables). If sound quality is your aim I believe the Qutest is a better dac for me. It sound more dimensional and natural compared to the uber detailed but flat RME.


----------



## TheRH

The RME really is not that hard to figure out.


----------



## dogrelata

Another Audiophile said:


> Got a qutest because the RME was bit complicated for me and my use case. If flexibility is your aim then the RME is way more versatile. Also it has xlr out which was the reason I bought it (to run long cables). If sound quality is your aim I believe the Qutest is a better day for me. It sound more dimensional and natural compared to the uber detailed but flat RME.



Thanks.

My heart is still with the Chord sound because I've been living with it for the last 7 years but I'm also trying to be pragmatic.  I was on the point of buying a new Qutest a couple of months ago but got side-tracked and ended up buying the L700s instead.  I'm really enjoying these but my budget is a bit more restricted now due to them being an unplanned purchase!


----------



## dogrelata

TheRH said:


> The RME really is not that hard to figure out.


Thanks.

I'm sure you're right but I've never been one for tweaking or poring over differences they may make.  I just like to turn on my gear and listen to music, which is just one of the many reasons I'll never be an audiophile...


----------



## CaptainFantastic

dogrelata said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm sure you're right but I've never been one for tweaking or poring over differences they may make.  I just like to turn on my gear and listen to music, which is just one of the many reasons I'll never be an audiophile...



Just to be clear. The RME does that. You turn it on and it plays good quality music. There is no short or lengthy setup process that would be different than that of any other DAC. If anything, it's easier and faster because it also has the amp, so no need to connect to another unit.

Sound quality is a different consideration and should be evaluated with your own ears and your own headphones / music preferences.

My point is, don't ignore the unit because it sounds complicated. It doesn't have to be. At all.


----------



## CaptainFantastic (Oct 27, 2021)

One other reflection: once you arrive at the conclusion that indeed the RME can just be turned on and it works great, no tinkering needed with any settings if you don't want to, then you can reasonably ask yourself the question - but did I overpay for this unit, it has all these features and I don't plan to use them?

But to that I would say, every unit has some similar aspect. With Chord you are overpaying for the name. I should know, I owned the H2 and M Scaler and I own the TT2. I think they are fantastic devices. But there is a huge premium.

With other gear there are other compromises.

In my novice view (but 3-year user of the unit), the RME still has strengths even if you plan to fully ignore its myriad of features. It is a solid DAC that is to some people's taste and not to others', has a more than decent amp, it is amazingly reliable (zero issues - 3 years), it is versatile (it started for me as an all in one, move to DAC for some external amps, then as DAC for my tube amp, then as my go-to unit for IEMs (not much into them though), now as DAC for my STAX amp for the HE-60), and the meters on the screen are unmatched as far as I know in aesthetics on any other unit. It makes the screens of 10k units look pathetic. There are other strengths others here can mention, I am sure. And downsides too, I am sure. Can't think of any right now myself.


----------



## dogrelata (Oct 27, 2021)

CaptainFantastic said:


> One other reflection: once you arrive at the conclusion that indeed the RME can just be turned on and it works great, no tinkering needed with any settings if you don't want to, then you can reasonably ask yourself the question - but did I overpay for this unit, it has all these features and I don't plan to use them?
> 
> But to that I would say, every unit has some similar aspect. With Chord you are overpaying for the name. I should know, I owned the H2 and M Scaler and I own the TT2. I think they are fantastic devices. But there is a huge premium.
> 
> ...


Yes, I fully understand it can be used with factory settings straight out of the box.  The reason I ask is that many of the impressions I've seen so far have been based on people tailoring sound to their own tastes, which is part of why it is so well regarded on this thread.  From my perspective, I tend to take several weeks to adjust to new equipment, assuming it has a different sound signature, and I wouldn't want to be tinkering with sound characteristics during the 2 or 3 week 'grace' period when I don't trust my own initial or short term impressions to be reliable barometer of what I may be hearing further down the line. 

On the other hand, if I were to leave it on factory settings and hear a discernable difference in sound, compared to my current Qute, and really liked it, that would be job done.


----------



## Another Audiophile

dogrelata said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm sure you're right but I've never been one for tweaking or poring over differences they may make.  I just like to turn on my gear and listen to music, which is just one of the many reasons I'll never be an audiophile...


I think that's the reason you ARE and audiophile my friend. Listening


----------



## TK33 (Oct 27, 2021)

dogrelata said:


> Yes, I fully understand it can be used with factory settings straight out of the box.  The reason I ask is that many of the impressions I've seen so far have been based on people tailoring sound to their own tastes, which is part of why it is so well regarded on this thread.  From my perspective, I tend to take several weeks to adjust to new equipment, assuming it has a different sound signature, and I wouldn't want to be tinkering with sound characteristics during the 2 or 3 week 'grace' period when I don't trust my own initial or short term impressions to be reliable barometer of what I may be hearing further down the line.
> 
> On the other hand, if I were to leave it on factory settings and hear a discernable difference in sound, compared to my current Qute, and really liked it, that would be job done.


RME has been one of my favorite purchases this year.  Use it for a pair of Aeon Noire and SE846 and both work extremely well.  Explored the menus out of curiosity but did not do any "tinkering" for the IEM output.  It just works.  I do use PEQ for the Noire and it works great.and I use the high shelf knob to further tame the treble a bit but that isnt something I can "fix" by getting another DAC.  Also love that it adjusts gain by itself so I don't need to mess with it when using PEQ (one less step).  Note, settings are separate for the different outputs so I dont even need to change settings when switching from my Noire (EQ on) to SE846 (EQ off).  As others have stated, you dont need to use any of the features, although the features make it an excellent value in my opinion.

I use both the coax (Node 2i) and USB (desktop PC) inputs and switching is automatic and easy (you can also manually switch). It is pretty plug and play in my opinion.

Also, something I dont see people mention often, but what led me to the RME was my search for a combo DAC/amp where there are no pops or skips when the sample rate changes.  Some of my other DACs have those annoying skips or pops (dangerously loud with my SE846) over coax/optical.  The RME just works and is well worth the money just for that alone. I could have saved a lot of money if I just tried this one first.


----------



## NickT23

CaptainFantastic said:


> One other reflection: once you arrive at the conclusion that indeed the RME can just be turned on and it works great, no tinkering needed with any settings if you don't want to, then you can reasonably ask yourself the question - but did I overpay for this unit, it has all these features and I don't plan to use them?
> 
> But to that I would say, every unit has some similar aspect. With Chord you are overpaying for the name. I should know, I owned the H2 and M Scaler and I own the TT2. I think they are fantastic devices. But there is a huge premium.
> 
> ...


So for Chord and RME comparison, what are the difference in sound quality in your opinion ? Any comparison to that overprice Chord compare to cheaper dac alternative ?


----------



## NickT23

shawty552 said:


> Yeah, I agree, the treble is much too harsh without an EQ but after tweaking them I actually think they sound alright.


Hello have you tried burning it ? there is no harshness and siblance from my side to the point no Eq is needed.


----------



## dogrelata (Oct 28, 2021)

CaptainFantastic said:


> One other reflection: once you arrive at the conclusion that indeed the RME can just be turned on and it works great, no tinkering needed with any settings if you don't want to, then you can reasonably ask yourself the question - but did I overpay for this unit, it has all these features and I don't plan to use them?
> 
> But to that I would say, every unit has some similar aspect. With Chord you are overpaying for the name. I should know, I owned the H2 and M Scaler and I own the TT2. I think they are fantastic devices. But there is a huge premium.
> 
> ...


Over the last few days I've been flipping back and forth between favouring Qutest over RME and vice versa.  I was edging towards ordering an ADI-2 from Thomann, who have a 30 day return policy. I've also been continuing to work my way through this thread. Around page 80, @elmoe posted an issue he'd had with his unit.  That started me researching known issues and came across a number of BSOD problems on RME's own forum.  One poster reports BSOD leading to some installations being corrupted.  That immediately brought back a bad experience I had.

About 20 years ago I was running a full virus check using McAfee AV.  Halfway through I got a BSOD and the PC would not re-boot.  I'll never forget it because it was Superbowl Sunday and the crash happened around 6:30pm UK time.  When I phoned McAfee, we tried a number of things, none of which worked so they advised re-formatting C drive and a full re-build.  That I did and it was after midnight before I got everything up and running again, by which time the game was already into the second quarter!  That was the end of McAfee for me.   

In fairness there are a number of suggestions of how to avoid BSOD on the RME forum, but this issue makes it a non-starter for me I'm afraid.


----------



## Iamnoexpert

Hi, this is my first post on this forum. I've read most of the pages on this thread. There aren't many people who have compared the AK4493 DAC chip and the ES9028Q2M. I've compared them both. I managed to borrow the older model from an Ebay seller and I bought the newer model, two actually, and then returned it. I've got to return the other one. I didn't need to do a blind test because the sound difference is so clearly apparent. 

I listened to Madonna's first album and David Bowie's The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars. I found the AKM chip nicer to listen to, the vocals less squashed and more natural. I found the bass disappointing, I don't know if that was the particular model I had. By contrast, the ES chip was more detailed, the bass was great, but there was a brightness to the sound and the vocals sounded squashed and shrill in places. I've now compared two of these newer models, at different times, and they both have a similar sound.

I know I've got very good hearing. I've been using RME 9632 soundcards in my pc and I hear differences between all the soundcards I've listened to - I've currently got three, all bought on Ebay.

I use a pair of 3-way JVC bookshelf speakers from the 1990s and an Onkyo A-9010 amplifier.  I hope this helps anyone looking at buying these DACs.


----------



## Verificateur

Iamnoexpert said:


> Hi, this is my first post on this forum. I've read most of the pages on this thread. There aren't many people who have compared the AK4493 DAC chip and the ES9028Q2M. I've compared them both. I managed to borrow the older model from an Ebay seller and I bought the newer model, two actually, and then returned it. I've got to return the other one. I didn't need to do a blind test because the sound difference is so clearly apparent.
> 
> I listened to Madonna's first album and David Bowie's The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars. I found the AKM chip nicer to listen to, the vocals less squashed and more natural. I found the bass disappointing, I don't know if that was the particular model I had. By contrast, the ES chip was more detailed, the bass was great, but there was a brightness to the sound and the vocals sounded squashed and shrill in places. I've now compared two of these newer models, at different times, and they both have a similar sound.
> 
> ...


Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

As I was reading your message I understood that you liked the RME AK4493 edition, but then you said it had disappointing bass?

So just wanted to clarify whether you recommend the RME AK4493 edition over the ESS edition and whether you are keeping the RME AK4493 edition for yourself or not?


----------



## Iamnoexpert

Verificateur said:


> Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
> 
> As I was reading your message I understood that you liked the RME AK4493 edition, but then you said it had disappointing bass?
> 
> So just wanted to clarify whether you recommend the RME AK4493 edition over the ESS edition and whether you are keeping the RME AK4493 edition for yourself or not?


I wasn't clear about that in my post. I didn't keep the AK4493. I wasn't sure if there was something wrong with it, perhaps that's why it was for sale. So I couldn't recommend that one. Perhaps others are different.


----------



## Matias

@Iamnoexpert so you preferred the AKM yet did not buy it? You returned all 3 units?


----------



## Verificateur

On a related/unrelated subject…

Trying to use my balanced 4.4mm cables with the RME. 

Has anyone tried these (CEMA) 4.4mm balanced (female) to 6.35mm single-ended (male) adapters?

CEMA 4.4mm to 6.35mm Adapter Converter 3.5MM TO 6.35MM 2.5MM TO 6.35MM
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mM1mMYm

Wonder if there are any positive/negatives and of course if there is an impact on sound quality…


----------



## skhan007 (Oct 30, 2021)

Question: for the first time recently, I hooked up my Blu-ray player to my ADI-2 and enjoyed an album in 24/48 resolution. I found it notably better than my typical lossless 16/44.1 files on my MacBook.

 Any suggestions on how to save and play these songs on my MacBook? I know I’ll need an external drive of some sort and some different software to play these types of files. Any suggestions are appreciated.


----------



## valkyrieorion

Is there a way to know which chip of AKM or ESS an ADI-2 has inside. I thought I saw something on the RME site but couldn’t find it now.


----------



## captblaze

valkyrieorion said:


> Is there a way to know which chip of AKM or ESS an ADI-2 has inside. I thought I saw something on the RME site but couldn’t find it now.


https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=172895#p172895


----------



## TheRH

You will have a "C" after the serial number.


----------



## TheRH




----------



## Iamnoexpert (Oct 31, 2021)

By the way, some of the mark II models don't have a B just the serial number.


----------



## valkyrieorion

TheRH said:


> You will have a "C" after the serial number.


Ah ok thanks. I guess I got an AKM version.


----------



## atya35mm

NickT23 said:


> So for Chord and RME comparison, what are the difference in sound quality in your opinion ? Any comparison to that overprice Chord compare to cheaper dac alternative ?


Just jumping in this thread to say how happy I am with the RME ADI-2 (ESS chip version) I got recently! I have a reference setup in another room, but has an itch to get a one box solution for casual listening & gaming on the PC. I got a bit carried away when I setup the reference system which is below on my signature couple months ago, mainly through buying used gear, but coming back to this "simple" setup of direct from PC to DAC to Meze Empyrean is refreshing.

Comparing to the reference setup in my sig, the RME has a "just the facts" attitude to presenting music, yes soundstage is flatter, vocals are more in your face with a digital glare?, but everything sounds super crispy with high amounts of clarity, which is perfect for casual listening. "Mods" I've done to this setup based around RME include adding an Uptone ISO REGEN with curious USB cable all got used, and using HQP for up sampling and playback. These mods all show incremental improvement in SQ.

I plugged the Meze Empyrean direct into RME and just for entertainment and curiosity, and also for head-fi members like @NickT23 and others  , did a comparison and plug direct to Dave / M scaler (complete with audiophile servers, power and all kinds of snake oil voodoo ethernet), and now understand when I hear people say it's never a night and day difference in HIFI audio, which I was expecting considering the Dave setup cost maybe about 20x more.

The reference setup is probably more analogue sounding, with improvement in all aspects of audiophile terms such as soundstage, timbre, but it would be hard to quantify with % improvement, but if I try to ignore all aspects to do with $, and just try to put a %, I would say maybe around 25 to 30% improvement?

If I were to get a friend / relative with casual interest in music, I doubt they would be able to tell much difference except to say "separation is better". Some might also  just prefer the RME for the straightforward just the facts and a more "2d" presentation of music, which most people are more used to.

Oh and the EQ feature is such a great feature on the RME, definitely need more experimenting, but I like how I can easily bass boost for gaming and adjust for a more neutral setup when listening to music.


----------



## valkyrieorion

Iamnoexpert said:


> By the way, some of the mark II models don't have a B just the serial number.


Good to know as mine didn't have a B or C. The Amazon ASIN number on the site showed it as a 4490 so I was a little concerned I got very old stock. Had not opened it yet because of this.


----------



## TK33

valkyrieorion said:


> Good to know as mine didn't have a B or C. The Amazon ASIN number on the site showed it as a 4490 so I was a little concerned I got very old stock. Had not opened it yet because of this.


One way to tell would be to see what remote is included in the box. The newer ones have the expanded MRC remote control. 

https://www.rme-audio.de/mrc.html

Attached is a picture of what my box looks like.  I have the AKM 4493 version (serial # ends with a B and has the SD LD filter).


----------



## valkyrieorion

TK33 said:


> One way to tell would be to see what remote is included in the box. The newer ones have the expanded MRC remote control.
> 
> https://www.rme-audio.de/mrc.html
> 
> Attached is a picture of what my box looks like.  I have the AKM 4493 version (serial # ends with a B and has the SD LD filter).


Ah ok my box has the same picture with that remote, thanks! Just no B at the end.


----------



## Moose246

Nothing new or earth-shattering in this post, just sharing some more ADI love.  I've been using my ADI-2 primarily for headphone use but recently picked up a Klipsch RP-600M home theatre system.  It came with 4 bookshelf speakers (a pair of 600M's and 500M's) - since I only wanted one set and the 600M's were a bit large for our built-in's I decided to use the 600's in my office where I keep the ADI.  Bought a pristine used Yamaha A-S500 and hooked up the ADI to it, still using my pc as the source, and wow - incredible sound!  I've primarily been a headphone user but the speakers add a whole other dimension to the experience.  I initially had a CD player hooked up to the A-S500 and when I switched to the ADI the sound was noticeably better.


----------



## VRacer-111

skhan007 said:


> Question: for the first time recently, I hooked up my Blu-ray player to my ADI-2 and enjoyed an album in 24/48 resolution. I found it notably better than my typical lossless 16/44.1 files on my MacBook.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to save and play these songs on my MacBook? I know I’ll need an external drive of some sort and some different software to play these types of files. Any suggestions are appreciated.


Can't help with MacBook file/play input but do like how an optical media player sounds over laptop running digital files. Use Xbox One as my optical drive for CDs, DVD-As, BD-As, and BD media...

Xbox ONE -> RME ADI-2 -> Project Ember II with Sovtek 6H30P-EB tube is my preferred setup using optical media. An absolutely real, live sounding presentation with very richly textured sound and great low end detail. And this is true for any of my other optical players as well (Yamaha S1800 DVD/SACD player & OPPO BDP-93 multi-media player.) Cowboy Bebop OST 1 CD, Blue Man Group "The Complex" DVD-A, and Nirvana "Nirvana" BD-A would be the album standards for my optical media.


----------



## versanteest (Nov 14, 2021)

Hi,

I bought the RME ADI-2 DAC a few days ago.

I'm very happy with this machine about local files/library, so I'm trying a right configuration for to have a "bit perfect" with MQA/TIDAL using the following combination.

This is my sequence

WINDOWS 10>>AUDIRVANA>>TIDAL INSIDE AUDIRVANA>>RME ADI-2 DAC (VIA USB)

So, this is my  audio setting in the Audirvana

https://ibb.co/5kQPpzR

But while playing an MQA file, I find it strange that Audirvana shows 24/96 down to the left in the screen and 32/96 to the right.

https://ibb.co/fMYwXvj


So, my setting is right or I need to change ? Or can I be satisfied that I have done everything right and therefore my ADI-2 dac is receiving a clean signal (not reprocessed)?
I found this link: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28996

Regards

Pasquale


----------



## Another Audiophile

versanteest said:


> Hi,
> 
> I bought the RME ADI-2 DAC a few days ago.
> 
> ...


Audirvana will show on the right the maximum bit rate the Dac accepts rather the actual. The actual is on the left.


----------



## NickT23

Another Audiophile said:


> Audirvana will show on the right the maximum bit rate the Dac accepts rather the actual. The actual is on the left.


Hi what amp are you pairing with ? All you use it as an all in one solution ?


----------



## versanteest

NickT23 said:


> Hi what amp are you pairing with ? All you use it as an all in one solution ?


Hi, yes I'm using only RME ADI2 taking advantage of its headphone amplifier section.


----------



## Another Audiophile

NickT23 said:


> Hi what amp are you pairing with ? All you use it as an all in one solution ?


I use it just as a Dac for my main 2-channel system. I don’t use it as a desktop Dac/amp


----------



## NickT23

atya35mm said:


> Just jumping in this thread to say how happy I am with the RME ADI-2 (ESS chip version) I got recently! I have a reference setup in another room, but has an itch to get a one box solution for casual listening & gaming on the PC. I got a bit carried away when I setup the reference system which is below on my signature couple months ago, mainly through buying used gear, but coming back to this "simple" setup of direct from PC to DAC to Meze Empyrean is refreshing.
> 
> Comparing to the reference setup in my sig, the RME has a "just the facts" attitude to presenting music, yes soundstage is flatter, vocals are more in your face with a digital glare?, but everything sounds super crispy with high amounts of clarity, which is perfect for casual listening. "Mods" I've done to this setup based around RME include adding an Uptone ISO REGEN with curious USB cable all got used, and using HQP for up sampling and playback. These mods all show incremental improvement in SQ.
> 
> ...


Thanks for wonderful response but dint get to read yet.


Another Audiophile said:


> I use it just as a Dac for my main 2-channel system. I don’t use it as a desktop Dac/amp


Yeah the RME ADI 2 amp are pretty decent. Would be nice if they have THX 789 amp performance at least. Is the pre amp good ? I dont use speakers at all.


----------



## Another Audiophile

NickT23 said:


> Thanks for wonderful response but dint get to read yet.
> 
> Yeah the RME ADI 2 amp are pretty decent. Would be nice if they have THX 789 amp performance at least. Is the pre amp good ? I dont use speakers at all.


I have the THX 789 and there is no major  difference but the thx is more powerful. Both amps are just ok. When I said I use it just as a Dac for meant fixed level output, dsd pure on connected to my integrated amplifier using the xlr out.


----------



## NickT23

Another Audiophile said:


> I have the THX 789 and there is no major  difference but the thx is more powerful. Both amps are just ok. When I said I use it just as a Dac for meant fixed level output, dsd pure on connected to my integrated amplifier using the xlr out.


So both are analytical sounding between RME ADI2 amp and THX 789 ? What integrated amplifier is it ?


----------



## Another Audiophile

NickT23 said:


> So both are analytical sounding between RME ADI2 amp and THX 789 ? What integrated amplifier is it ?


I have a Yamaha A-S3000. I wouldn’t call the amp section analytical. Just transparent.


----------



## ainzz

I've owned the RME for about 6 months now and enjoy it with my variety of mid/lo-fi headphones; Ananda, Grado hemp, AT Wp900, HD650. Only use it as a dac/heaphone amp.

I'm looking to treat myself to some better (more expensive?) headphones and i'm gradually narrowing down my list. I note reviews refer to headphones being bright/dark and would be better suited to bright/dark chain. I have no reference so would we say the RME is bright or generally neutral? My take on it is its fairly bright, somewhat analytical, digital(!), non-musical. But this may be the experience with _my_ headphones.


----------



## Deceneu808

ainzz said:


> I've owned the RME for about 6 months now and enjoy it with my variety of mid/lo-fi headphones; Ananda, Grado hemp, AT Wp900, HD650. Only use it as a dac/heaphone amp.
> 
> I'm looking to treat myself to some better (more expensive?) headphones and i'm gradually narrowing down my list. I note reviews refer to headphones being bright/dark and would be better suited to bright/dark chain. I have no reference so would we say the RME is bright or generally neutral? My take on it is its fairly bright, somewhat analytical, digital(!), non-musical. But this may be the experience with _my_ headphones.


The way I see my RME is that it's a great source/starting point for all sorts of amplifiers. Bright or warm. I like it's neutrality


----------



## ainzz

Deceneu808 said:


> The way I see my RME is that it's a great source/starting point for all sorts of amplifiers. Bright or warm. I like it's neutrality


Are you saying the DAC is neutral and warmth or brightness could be changed with an external amp? How would you consider the overall unit including the built in amp; warm/bright/neutral? I currently don't use it with an external amp.


----------



## Deceneu808

ainzz said:


> Are you saying the DAC is neutral and warmth or brightness could be changed with an external amp? How would you consider the overall unit including the built in amp; warm/bright/neutral? I currently don't use it with an external amp.


Yes. I would describe the amp section also neutral in contrast to all my tube amplifiers and the Singxer SA-1 I currently use. They add a bit of warmth and musicality in to the mix


----------



## ainzz

Deceneu808 said:


> Yes. I would describe the amp section also neutral in contrast to all my tube amplifiers and the Singxer SA-1 I currently use. They add a bit of warmth and warmth and musicality in to the mix


Thanks for the insight.
So, if I want a warmer presentation I could experiment with the following:

Add a warmer amp and use existing headphones.
Buy a warmer headphone to use with the RME amp
Buy a warmer amp and warmer headphone.
If I have $2k to upgrade my system where would I get the most benefit for overall SQ with more warmth and musicality

Amp $2k
Headphone $2k
Amp and headphone $2k (50/50 split or other)
Sorry if this is such a simplistic approach but I don't have much experience. Also I haven't got the luxury of demoing equipment. But I do have $2k to spend but don't know how to spend it.


----------



## Deceneu808

ainzz said:


> Thanks for the insight.
> So, if I want a warmer presentation I could experiment with the following:
> 
> Add a warmer amp and use existing headphones.
> ...


Well you could add a class A solid state amp like the Rebel Amp or the Singxer SA-1 for 500-600$ and grab a pair of ZMF Aeolus or Atticus with the rest of the budget. That would contrast nicely with your others.


----------



## ainzz

Deceneu808 said:


> Well you could add a class A solid state amp like the Rebel Amp or the Singxer SA-1 for 500-600$ and grab a pair of ZMF Aeolus or Atticus with the rest of the budget. That would contrast nicely with your others.


Thanks. Had my eye on the Atticus and have been looking at the RebelAmp. Reassuring that i'm possibly looking in the right direction.


----------



## Another Audiophile

ainzz said:


> Thanks for the insight.
> So, if I want a warmer presentation I could experiment with the following:
> 
> Add a warmer amp and use existing headphones.
> ...


Headphones. That’s where I would put my money. The RME is good enough for 75-80% of the headphones. The difference you will hear between headphones is nowhere near the subtle changes between amplifiers and dacs


----------



## CaptainFantastic

ainzz said:


> Thanks for the insight.
> So, if I want a warmer presentation I could experiment with the following:
> 
> Add a warmer amp and use existing headphones.
> ...



I agree with the advice above. But for variety of opinion:

If you love the sound of the 650, put that $2k toward a Bottlehead Crack OTL amp with internal upgrades and upgraded tubes running from your RME. It will get warmer for sure.


----------



## ainzz

Another Audiophile said:


> Headphones. That’s where I would put my money. The RME is good enough for 75-80% of the headphones. The difference you will hear between headphones is nowhere near the subtle changes between amplifiers and dacs


Would a 300 ohm ZMF Atticus fit in that 75-80%?


----------



## Another Audiophile

ainzz said:


> Would a 300 ohm ZMF Atticus fit in that 75-80%?


I have the ZMF Aeolus. The ZMF headphones are high impedance but not very hard to drive. The RME can drive the headphones so yes are within the 75-80%. Do the headphones scale up with a transformer less valve amplifier? Certainly but if I had to buy one or the other then I would by the ZMF as a better value for money proposition. Later on you can check for an amp that will drive the ZMF in their full potential.


----------



## 04gto

I just wanted to post a very useful link here along with my own experience running my unit from a battery pack (for mobility). I had toyed with the idea of using a battery pack for when I travel near (in state often) or far (lower 48). But I back burnered the idea and it fell off the range. Then I came across this excellent write up and it re-ignited the idea for me. I ordered the battery pack used for testing in this write up and it works flawlessly. In my limited testing, I am getting 4-5 hours of listening time running iPhone 11 Pro>Tidal>RME ADI-2 DAC FS V2>LCD-XC. If I am not actively listening the battery pack will keep the unit powered on for 8+ hours.

Pretty amazing to have a mobile set up that,_ to my ears_, sounds like $50k+ of two channel. Without the special room, room treatments etc. I am using a Nanuk 915 case w/ foam to safely and securely pack all this up (I have a fetish for these and other "Pelican style" cases).


----------



## CaptainFantastic

35 months into a 36-month warranty my RME ADI-2 DAC, which ran flawlessly the entire period with almost daily use (usually with dark screen function enabled), all of a sudden suffered a screen malfunction whereby multicolored vertical lines showed up on the right side of the screen. Otherwise there were no issues.

Quick e-mail to Thomann where I purchased it from. Prepaid label arrives for UPS shipment. Two days later it's with Thomann. 3 weeks later I have the unit with a new screen and in perfect working order.

Thanks RME, thanks Thomann.


----------



## NickT23

Hi guys, I know there are over 300 pages and mind my rudeness and laziness, been scrolling trying to find related information. But does anyone able to A/B RME ADI2 to RME ADI FS/Chord Qutest, Hugo 2, Dave/Mytek Brooklyn ($2500 ones or higher) / Benchmark Dac3 HGC ?


----------



## jclyle

Has anyone used RME ADI as DAC with fixed line out to Burson Conductor 3R? 3R doesn't have the power amp mode that a Soloist XP does. I currently have a 3R ( w Sparkos duals & SuperCharger) but find it to be too smooth for my musical tastes. 

I'm wondering if the combo would be any improvement in pace and dynamics over the internal DAC in the 3R.


----------



## Marutks

jclyle said:


> Has anyone used RME ADI as DAC with fixed line out to Burson Conductor 3R?



I heard weird distortions (clipping) when I used Burson Conductor 3R with external DACs ( RME and D90 ).
I had to use software volume control to get rid of the clipping.


----------



## anttipi

Is the serial number printed on the box too or just the unit itself? I am going to phone a reseller and ask which chip version they have in stock. Thanks!


----------



## Iamnoexpert

anttipi said:


> Is the serial number printed on the box too or just the unit itself? I am going to phone a reseller and ask which chip version they have in stock. Thanks!


You can find the letter, B or C, or no letter, on the back of the device, or you can ring an official RME supplier tell them the serial number and they can find out for you.


----------



## Verificateur

Anyone who is using 4.4mm female to 1/4” male adapters into RME, is this detrimental or has any impact on the sound quality at all?

All my cables are terminated in 4.4mm….


----------



## makan

Verificateur said:


> Anyone who is using 4.4mm female to 1/4” male adapters into RME, is this detrimental or has any impact on the sound quality at all?
> 
> All my cables are terminated in 4.4mm….


Shouldn’t have any issues. I use an xlr to 1/4” sometimes on that and my other amps. The issue is just the connector dangles and it adds a little bit of weight


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Another Audiophile said:


> The RME is good enough for 75-80% of the headphones


I'd go further than that. It's probably about 99% assuming 115db peak volume.


Verificateur said:


> Anyone who is using 4.4mm female to 1/4” male adapters into RME, is this detrimental or has any impact on the sound quality at all?


Nope. Generally speaking, going from single ended amp side to a balanced headphone cable always works.


----------



## Tuneslover

I have a FiiO M11 DAP that I’m experimenting with my ADI-2 DAC. My understanding is that the ADI is not equipped to handle MQA. How would the ADI respond to an incoming MQA signal?

Also is there an optimum setup for the ADI when using Tidal?

Thanks!


----------



## 04gto (Dec 9, 2021)

Starbucks will never be the same. No AC power necessary.
 ☕️ 🎧 🎸🎶🎼🎵🥁
Addendum: Yes, I am _that_ guy.


----------



## Another Audiophile

04gto said:


> Starbucks will never be the same. No AC power necessary.
> ☕️ 🎧 🎸🎶🎼🎵🥁


lol


----------



## creed2

Can some one advise me. I have a RME adi2 v2. I have 2 amps a solid state and tube running both without a preamp. I am using RME as a preamp running direct into amps. With the solid state the gain is just right. On the tube amp it’s hit and miss on different recordings, I feel there is a lack of gain with the RME. Is there a way to increase the gain internally of the RME and use the volume control as just a volume control due to it being used as a preamp. Thanks for any help


----------



## enb141

My RME AIO has different output voltage settings, the ADI-DAC should be the same, are you using it without drivers?


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads.html


----------



## TANTALUMWATCHES

TANTALUMWATCHES said:


> https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads.html


New update.


----------



## creed2

enb141, by drivers do you mean speakers if so yes using with speakers. I will look for voltage settings in the menu. The solid state amp is a PS Audio 100k input. If someone can tell me how to get to voltage settings and is there a rule which voltage setting to go with what the input impedance is.

The tube amp is a Don Sachs Kootenay120, KT88 , i Need to double check on its input impedance. 

What should voltage setting be for a 100k amp? just to get an idea what’s going on 

Thanks for the help as you can tell not very technical with programming the RME. I set it up a year ago and just left it alone. I just sold my preamp week or so ago. Just trying to see if I can get away without preamp. The PS Audio power amp sounded better with a PS Audio preamp removed which shocked me. So I’m going to see how this plays out. Thanks again for any advise.


----------



## creed2

Forgot to add I have never updated the RME it’s sounds so go I’m scared it will change the Sonics. Honestly don’t even know how to do it, I’m sure I could figure it out.


----------



## 04gto

creed2 said:


> Forgot to add I have never updated the RME it’s sounds so go I’m scared it will change the Sonics. Honestly don’t even know how to do it, I’m sure I could figure it out.


I have the latest firmware (V41 loopback). It did not change the sound at all but there are some very good items in _*this firmware update*_.


----------



## technobear

creed2 said:


> enb141, by drivers do you mean speakers if so yes using with speakers. I will look for voltage settings in the menu. The solid state amp is a PS Audio 100k input. If someone can tell me how to get to voltage settings and is there a rule which voltage setting to go with what the input impedance is.
> 
> The tube amp is a Don Sachs Kootenay120, KT88 , i Need to double check on its input impedance.
> 
> ...


Input impedance is irrelevant here.

Set the RME to 'Auto Ref Level' = ON (it's in the manual)

Turn the volume knob to wherever it needs to be for the desired listening level.

This will likely be different for each of your power amps.

If it starts to distort then you are exceeding the output capability of your power amp. In this instance turn the RME down a bit.


----------



## Matias

TANTALUMWATCHES said:


> New update.


AFAIK 66/41 is still the latest and it is from August.
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=33593


----------



## enb141

creed2 said:


> enb141, by drivers do you mean speakers if so yes using with speakers. I will look for voltage settings in the menu. The solid state amp is a PS Audio 100k input. If someone can tell me how to get to voltage settings and is there a rule which voltage setting to go with what the input impedance is.
> 
> The tube amp is a Don Sachs Kootenay120, KT88 , i Need to double check on its input impedance.
> 
> ...


By drivers I mean windows/mac drivers not speakers/headphones.

In RME AIO you can set different voltages ranges in the sound card control panel.


----------



## Flognuts

I Haven't had time to read through 311 pages but how does this Dac compare to the Qutest and topping D90?

This really sparks my interest because of the built in amp, I can see myself just using this with my focal clears/r70x as an all in 1 setup. 

I have a Topping A90 amp already which I can use too, but may be over kill if the amp in this is already good?


----------



## Marutks (Dec 20, 2021)

Flognuts said:


> I Haven't had time to read through 311 pages but how does this Dac compare to the Qutest and topping D90?



I have Topping D90 and RME DAC.   They sound the same.

I think the headphone amp in RME DAC is good enough for easy to drive , dynamic headphones.

I had THX amp and it wasn't audibly better than RME  ( for Verite headphones).


----------



## 04gto

Flognuts said:


> I Haven't had time to read through 311 pages but how does this Dac compare to the Qutest and topping D90?
> 
> This really sparks my interest because of the built in amp, I can see myself just using this with my focal clears/r70x as an all in 1 setup.
> 
> I have a Topping A90 amp already which I can use too, but may be over kill if the amp in this is already good?


Two of the best reviews I have seen contrasting the RME ADI-2 DAC and the Chord Qutest are below. I personally found the Qutest to sound 'good'. Nothing special and not worth anywhere near the asking price, plenty of DACs cost less and sound just as good. 

This first reviewer from '13th Note HiFi Reviews' is more favorable to the RME. His reviews are pretty consistent and it does not seem like he is a shill for any particular brand.  


This second reviewer 'Passion for sound' seems a bit more favorable to the Qutest. His reviews are also pretty consistent and it does not seem like he is a shill for any particular brand. He used to be on Head-Fi at some point.


----------



## Flognuts

Sounds like go for the best priced. Which cancels out the Qutest.
May just got the D90 and complete the stack.


----------



## skhan007 (Dec 23, 2021)

Question for you all and hoping to get some guidance:

I've bought some music on DVD and BluRay audio that has tracks in LPCM 24/96, but when I play these tracks, the RME ADI-2 displays 16/48 kHz. Not sure why and was hoping to inquire with you all.


----------



## Forsaked

skhan007 said:


> Question for you all and hoping to get some guidance:
> 
> I've bought some music on DVD and BluRay audio that has tracks in LPCM 24/96, but when I play these tracks, the RME ADI-2 displays 16/48 kHz. Not sure why and was hoping to inquire with you all.


What is connected to the RME and how?


----------



## skhan007

Forsaked said:


> What is connected to the RME and how?


My BluRay player is connected via coax.


----------



## Forsaked

skhan007 said:


> My BluRay player is connected via coax.


Is it multichannel audio and is there a bit perfect setting in the BluRay player?


----------



## skhan007 (Dec 23, 2021)

Forsaked said:


> Is it multichannel audio and is there a bit perfect setting in the BluRay player?


It's set to two-channel stereo (not surround or 5.1. etc.). Not sure about bit perfect settings on the BluRay player. Should I search for that in the BluRay player's menu of some sort? Sorry, I'm a bit of novice on this set up.

Edit: I went to the manual of my BluRay player (Sony BDP 6500) and I've tried every audio setting in the manual and no matter what, it plays 16/48 (what the ADI2 screen reads), even through the TV screen says it's playing 24/96.

I called the RME support line and the tech stated it's definitely the player downscaling the audio output, for some unknown reason. I swapped for another BluRay player in a different room of my house and that one produces the 24/96 rate according to the ADI2. Go figure. Weird. Not sure what to make of this, other than I need to keep using this older player to play my BluRay audio.


----------



## technobear

skhan007 said:


> It's set to two-channel stereo (not surround or 5.1. etc.). Not sure about bit perfect settings on the BluRay player. Should I search for that in the BluRay player's menu of some sort? Sorry, I'm a bit of novice on this set up.
> 
> Edit: I went to the manual of my BluRay player (Sony BDP 6500) and I've tried every audio setting in the manual and no matter what, it plays 16/48 (what the ADI2 screen reads), even through the TV screen says it's playing 24/96.
> 
> I called the RME support line and the tech stated it's definitely the player downscaling the audio output, for some unknown reason. I swapped for another BluRay player in a different room of my house and that one produces the 24/96 rate according to the ADI2. Go figure. Weird. Not sure what to make of this, other than I need to keep using this older player to play my BluRay audio.


Firstly, as you have already been told, it's not the RME.

From the manual of the BDP-6500:

*The HD Audio (Dolby Digital Plus,*​*Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High*​*Resolution Audio, and DTS-HD*​*Master Audio) is not output by*​*bitstream.*​, Set [BD Audio MIX Setting] in [Audio​Settings] to [*Off*] (page 30).​, Check that the connected AV amplifier​(receiver) is compatible with each HD​Audio format.​
Hope that helps. Also make sure *Downmix* is set to *Stereo*. Otherwise it looks like a limitation of the player.


----------



## Audiophile PT

There's a new Firmware update ADI-2 DAC 66 / 47 and ADI-2 Pro 259 / 111

Check the video with the new functions and features: 

Merry Christmas to everyone


----------



## skhan007

technobear said:


> Firstly, as you have already been told, it's not the RME.
> 
> From the manual of the BDP-6500:
> 
> ...


Thank you- I appreciate you looking this up and providing guidance. I've implemented these settings on the Sony and my other player (Panasonic) and same results. BluRay discs labeled as 24/96 and playing in 16/48 according to the ADI2 clock. I have to conclude that my run-of-the-mill BlurRay players are not meant for lossless audio discs? I will start another thread in a different part of Head-Fi, as to not take up space on the ADI2 thread. Thank you again.


----------



## rayan45

Would the RME be capable of driving the LCD-2s?


----------



## Tano

rayan45 said:


> Would the RME be capable of driving the LCD-2s?


Yes. I used the 2017 LCD 2 with the Adi and it was quite a nice pair. Plenty of headroom.


----------



## rayan45

Okay great. Another thing I was wondering was about the longevity of using the RME as an amp + DAC. Would I be wearing the RME out by using it this way and would its lifespan be vastly prolonged if I were to just get a dedicated amp?


----------



## Marutks

rayan45 said:


> Okay great. Another thing I was wondering was about the longevity of using the RME as an amp + DAC. Would I be wearing the RME out by using it this way and would its lifespan be vastly prolonged if I were to just get a dedicated amp?



No,  but a dedicated amp might improve the sound.


----------



## Tano

rayan45 said:


> Okay great. Another thing I was wondering was about the longevity of using the RME as an amp + DAC. Would I be wearing the RME out by using it this way and would its lifespan be vastly prolonged if I were to just get a dedicated amp?


The RME ADI 2 DAC is designed to work as a DAC/AMP, so I don't think that using it just as a DAC would give it a bigger lifespan.
Get an external amp only if you have headphones that require a huge amount of power.


----------



## jjss

Matthias of RME forum purposely posted on the RME forum to explain what ADI-2 (Pro or DAC) is capable of driving HPs. Quote: //Exceptions are models that are either outdated or rare, mostly the super-power hungry AKG K1000 and HIFIMAN HE6//,  so if you like the sound of the unit there isn't a real need to connect to another amp just because you think that power output could be an issue!  And if you're chasing some other things then its a diff story.  Also if you have either the Pro or DAC or you're seriously deciding to get one, its worth the while to join the RME forum!
The RME forum page ..


----------



## skhan007

Merry Christmas to all!!!

Revisiting an earlier question/problem:

If any of you are listening to 24/96 hi-res music from a Blu Ray disc, what player/hardware are you using with your RME ADI2? Are you connected via optical or coax? 

I may need to buy new hardware, as my two current players (Sony BDP 6500 and Panasonic DMP-BDT360) are downsampling my 24/96 music to 16/48 or 24/48 according to my ADI2 clock, despite all my attempts to adjust Blu Ray player settings. 

Please help me figure out a better set up!


----------



## arielext

Swapping EQ presets and B/T included in PEQ settings are the 2 favourite new features for me.

I was about to redo my EQs by hand to swap around some presets so that my current headphones are in front but now I can just swap them around. Love it!
Including B/T in the PEQ makes it a 7band EQ. More is always better  That you can now bind a EQ to a button the remote is truly the cherry on the cake.


----------



## Tano

arielext said:


> Swapping EQ presets and B/T included in PEQ settings are the 2 favourite new features for me.
> 
> I was about to redo my EQs by hand to swap around some presets so that my current headphones are in front but now I can just swap them around. Love it!
> Including B/T in the PEQ makes it a 7band EQ. More is always better  That you can now bind a EQ to a button the remote is truly the cherry on the cake.


Totally agree. Those new features are quite helpful, but the B/T added to current EQ is kinda tricky because you can only add one setting and needs to be changed manually if you switch EQs (unless you like to add the same amount to all your hps)
It would be amazing to be able to add different B/T settings to each EQ.

Anyways, Im just nitpicking. The RME ADI 2 DAC is hand downs the best piece of gear that I've tried at any price. Quite happy that you recommended it to me 

Happy new year!


----------



## NickT23

Tano said:


> Totally agree. Those new features are quite helpful, but the B/T added to current EQ is kinda tricky because you can only add one setting and needs to be changed manually if you switch EQs (unless you like to add the same amount to all your hps)
> It would be amazing to be able to add different B/T settings to each EQ.
> 
> Anyways, Im just nitpicking. The RME ADI 2 DAC is hand downs the best piece of gear that I've tried at any price. Quite happy that you recommended it to me
> ...


HI have you compare to any high end delta sigma dacs that are more expensive than RME just based on sound quality alone ?


----------



## Golyatx

exclamation Mark DC OUTPUT PROBLEM is my favorite new feature. 

never had this before


----------



## Tano

NickT23 said:


> HI have you compare to any high end delta sigma dacs that are more expensive than RME just based on sound quality alone ?


I have owned a and used a few good delta sigma DACs like the Rega Dac R, Teac CG 10M, Mytek Brooklyn or Naim DAC V1 apart from a bunch of cheaper ones like the SMSL SU9, Topping D90 or Marantz HD dac. Only was able to do A/B comparisons with the SU-9, but from memory, althought they all sounded very good to my ears, the RME just destroy them all because of their features, clean and honest sound and a his pretty capable HP amp, which is more than enough for my gear.
The RME ADI 2 DAC ended my constant search for improvements and it's the center of my system. I would only get a separate amp if you are looking for some added flavour (tubes, coloured amps) or power for very hard to drive planars.


----------



## NickT23

Tano said:


> I have owned a and used a few good delta sigma DACs like the Rega Dac R, Teac CG 10M, Mytek Brooklyn or Naim DAC V1 apart from a bunch of cheaper ones like the SMSL SU9, Topping D90 or Marantz HD dac. Only was able to do A/B comparisons with the SU-9, but from memory, althought they all sounded very good to my ears, the RME just destroy them all because of their features, clean and honest sound and a his pretty capable HP amp, which is more than enough for my gear.
> The RME ADI 2 DAC ended my constant search for improvements and it's the center of my system. I would only get a separate amp if you are looking for some added flavour (tubes, coloured amps) or power for very hard to drive planars.


Yea of course but am referring to more high end expensive dacs more than RME from just sound alone, forget price per performance and features. Just pure sound quality alone...


----------



## Tano

NickT23 said:


> Yea of course but am referring to more high end expensive dacs more than RME from just sound alone, forget price per performance and features. Just pure sound quality alone...


None of the Dacs that I have said above are superior in terms of sound quality IMHO. There's could be some slight differences between them, but it would be more a matter of personal tastes. I bet we would have a hard time to recognise between most of the delta sigma dacs in a proper A/B blind test.
My recommendation is that if you are going to get a delta sigma based DAC, ADI is the best overall performer.


----------



## arielext

NickT23 said:


> Yea of course but am referring to more high end expensive dacs more than RME from just sound alone, forget price per performance and features. Just pure sound quality alone...


What exactly do you want to hear/expect?


----------



## NickT23

arielext said:


> What exactly do you want to hear/expect?


Not sure am just asking for people impression. What do you mean ?


----------



## JoeTho

Great topic here. I've had the RME ADI 2 DAC for almost 2 years, I suppose. I used it with the Topping A90 for a while, and I really enjoyed that combo, but other than using it for the balanced connection, I don't think it offered any discernible audio quality improvement over using it as a stand alone DAC/AMP. I found it to be the best pairing with the HD800 (classics). I have yet to try it just as a DAC with my Audio GD Master 19 Dual Mono Headphone amp. I'm going to give that a shot.


----------



## Bazaar

Have been very happy w/ the RME but still thinking of comparing Chord against the RME…also do want to try a tube amp vs my V281. Maybe next year 😏


----------



## arielext

NickT23 said:


> Not sure am just asking for people impression. What do you mean ?


Is it about the colouring of the filters or the cleanness of a DAC? Measurements have proven to mean nothing for anything that is remotely human anymore. What makes the adi-2 special is the ability to alter/tweak/tune the clean and true DAC it uses.


----------



## arielext

JoeTho said:


> Great topic here. I've had the RME ADI 2 DAC for almost 2 years, I suppose. I used it with the Topping A90 for a while, and I really enjoyed that combo, but other than using it for the balanced connection, I don't think it offered any discernible audio quality improvement over using it as a stand alone DAC/AMP. I found it to be the best pairing with the HD800 (classics). I have yet to try it just as a DAC with my Audio GD Master 19 Dual Mono Headphone amp. I'm going to give that a shot.


I have the master 19 and use it with the rme DAC. The ether cx and he6se are both really happy with the extra power the master 19 provides. Though the CX can be driven directly by the rme DAC as well. The master 19 has a wider soundstage and a bit more sub-bass feeling compared to the amp in the rme DAC


----------



## JoeTho

arielext said:


> I have the master 19 and use it with the rme DAC. The ether cx and he6se are both really happy with the extra power the master 19 provides. Though the CX can be driven directly by the rme DAC as well. The master 19 has a wider soundstage and a bit more sub-bass feeling compared to the amp in the rme DAC


I'm enjoying it right now with a cup of coffee. I'm trying it with the Focal Clear MG. I can't do the HE6SE on this set up. I have tried and I can't do it.


----------



## arielext

JoeTho said:


> I can't do the HE6SE on this set up. I have tried and I can't do it.


How do you mean? You got a better set-up for the HE6SE?


----------



## JoeTho

arielext said:


> How do you mean? You got a better set-up for the HE6SE?


Yes sir. The Master 19 will drive the HE6SE to play loud, but it will not drive them to peak performance in other areas. I have a DIY setup of my own. A Denfrips Ares II, old-school r2r step ladder DAC. A Vintage Monster receiver from the 1970 Stereo wars. It's a 65 pound, dual mono power supply Transformer Amp from Sanyo (JCX 2900K), which comes in at 140 watts per channel x 2, 8Ω. I call it my Giant Japanese Kaiju. My wife calls it a dinosaur. I run the Hifiman HE adapter right to the speaker taps. This is the best I've heard, period.


----------



## Tano

JoeTho said:


> Yes sir. The Master 19 will drive the HE6SE to play loud, but it will not drive them to peak performance in other areas. I have a DIY setup of my own. A Denfrips Ares II, old-school r2r step ladder DAC. A Vintage Monster receiver from the 1970 Stereo wars. It's a 65 pound, dual mono power supply Transformer Amp from Sanyo (JCX 2900K), which comes in at 140 watts per channel x 2, 8Ω. I call it my Giant Japanese Kaiju. My wife calls it a dinosaur. I run the Hifiman HE adapter right to the speaker taps. This is the best I've heard, period.


Not enough power. You need a fully working nuclear power plant to drive those


----------



## JoeTho

Tano said:


> Not enough power. You need a fully working nuclear power plant to drive those


Pretty much! And let me tell you, I have the Monster receiver plugged into a Furman power conditioner. And early in the morning when I power it on, I notice the light flickers in my office, and on the front of the power conditioner, if I was receiving 115 volts, it drops to 114 volts just from powering her up.


----------



## JoeTho

Question for some of the RME experts. When adding treble by way of the treble knob, which frequency is being increased? Is there a way to tell? For instance, on my Vintage receiver, when I increase the treble, I can choose to increase 2.5khz, 5khz, or 10khz. Those are my only 3 choices.


----------



## gahan

You can modify frequency, Q, etc low shelf and high self on I/O menu and then Bass/Treble.


----------



## Matias

Read the f. manual as they say hehe.


----------



## JoeTho

gahan said:


> You can modify frequency, Q, etc low shelf and high self on I/O menu and then Bass/Treble.


Thank you kindly. Basically, I can select any frequency I want to change by increasing and decreasing bass and treble. This is awesome!


----------



## Another Audiophile

gahan said:


> You can modify frequency, Q, etc low shelf and high self on I/O menu and then Bass/Treble.


I don't think you can select a low/high self for the B/T. Is just a specific frequency with a variable Q. Am I wrong on that?


----------



## gahan

Another Audiophile said:


> I don't think you can select a low/high self for the B/T. Is just a specific frequency with a variable Q. Am I wrong on that?


Yes, you are wrong


----------



## Another Audiophile (Jan 2, 2022)

gahan said:


> Yes, you are wrong


Why? Where is the option to select a self? To me its looks like boosting a specific frequency with a variable Q. Will check the response. Maybe you are right


----------



## gahan

Sorry, you are right. B/T only boost specific frequency. Low and high shelf are in the EQ only. My apologies.


----------



## NOMOS

These are the possibilities of Bass and Treble controllers .

Audiophile Greetings , NOMOS


----------



## Another Audiophile

NOMOS said:


> These are the possibilities of Bass and Treble controllers .
> 
> Audiophile Greetings , NOMOS


It’s all Greek to me.


----------



## NOMOS

Another Audiophile said:


> It’s all Greek to me.



Really ? 😀
Here in English :
Bass Gain

Current Bass amplification for the current channels as set by encoder 1 (B). Adjustable between -6 dB and +6 dB in steps of 0.5 dB.

Bass Freq

Corner frequency of the shelf bass filter. Adjustable from 20 Hz to 150 Hz in steps of 1 Hz. De- fault: 85 Hz.

Bass Q

The quality factor of the filter is adjustable from 0.5 to 1.5. Default 0.9.

Treble Gain

Current Treble amplification for the current channels as set by encoder 2 (T). Adjustable between -6 dB and +6 dB in steps of 0.5 dB.

Treble Freq

Corner frequency of the shelf treble filter. Adjustable from 3 kHz to 10 kHz in steps of 100 Hz. Default: 6.5 kHz.

Treble Q

The quality factor of the filter is adjustable from 0.5 to 1.5. Default 0.7.

If you have any further uncertainties, you can read this through 😉

https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2dac_e.pdf


----------



## Slaphead (Jan 2, 2022)

NOMOS said:


> The quality factor of the filter is adjustable from 0.5 to 1.5. Default 0.9.





NOMOS said:


> The quality factor of the filter is adjustable from 0.5 to 1.5. Default 0.7.


First off @NOMOS this is not aimed at you at all, this is about Q and how I dislike why it's named "Quality". I'm just quoting your posts as you give a perfect example of how Q can be misunderstood.

I know Q means "Quality", but it's probably the worst descriptive moniker ever in audio, especially for EQ

Q basically means how wide the boost or reduction will be over the neighbouring frequencies. A small Q will only affect a small number of frequencies on either side of the frequency where the EQ was applied, and a large Q will affect more frequencies on either side.

While it can be argued that the more aggressive the filter is (small Q) the more the sound quality is reduced due to the nature of digital filtering (though these days it's a very small reduction), calling it "Quality" really doesn't help those who are new to EQ in terms of understanding what this setting actually does, especially as EQ is generally badly understood by many an audiophile.


----------



## NOMOS (Jan 2, 2022)

@Slaphead :
The term Quality is directly from the RME User manual .
But you're right, Q factor is the better term ,
because it is used on many EQs.


----------



## mat.1

How much is the import tax from German to USA if i buy from Thomann ?


----------



## Slaphead

NOMOS said:


> @Slaphead :
> The term Quality is directly from the RME User manual .
> But you're right, Q factor is the better term ,
> because it is used on many EQs.


Yeah I know, and it's not RME's fault - they've given it it's accepted name. My gripe is that it's a misleading name - somebody not used to PEQ might see "Quality" and then push it to the max, "'cause it's better quality, innit?", and doing that is not going to accomplish what they're trying to do.

That said there are some pro audio outfits do not use the word "quality" when describing Q, rather they describe it as the bell shape for the EQ curve - admittedly still not friendly for a beginner, but better than "quality"

Q is probably the most powerful aspect of PEQ, allowing you to apply an overall effect on a wide frequency range, right down to being able to selectively boost or attenuate a very narrow frequency region - often referred to as a "Notch filter". I think it's important that people getting into EQ understand that Q doesn't actually mean quality of sound, it means range of frequencies affected from the central point of the applied EQ.


----------



## NOMOS (Jan 3, 2022)

Yes, but it's not realy important because nothing can happen 

The graphic shows what changes and changes

soundwise you can hear it if you set what's wrong  at the EQ .

And if you set the Q to full 50, ( at my EQ of DMG Audio only to Example ) 

you just change a very narrow

range around the set frequency ,…can't break anything.

It is necessary to deal with the EQ for a long time

to understand certain contexts .

When you try and compare you always get better over the time ,

to get to the sound you like


----------



## dougq

This isn't really specific to the RME, but it's maybe something more people here might have experience with.  I am experiencing what I think is a lot of USB jitter with the RME (and other DACs).

I'm trying to see if it's related to running parallels too.
I'm calling it jitter, but basically audio skips as if the CD is dirty . It's not specific to any music player.

Last thing I should add is this is on an Apple M1 Pro.  I can't consistently produce it.  I'm going to try and leave parallels off and see if it stops happening.


----------



## mat.1

Where to buy RMe adi 2 Dac that have a good price in USA ?


----------



## Moose246 (Jan 5, 2022)

I just found an interesting Reddit thread about optimal EQ settings for the ADI depending on the headphone (even dependent on what pads used).  A user..."oratory1990"...uses some sort of optimizer based on a "Harman target".  I'm not going to pretend I know one iota about what that is or how they even optimize, but I was intrigued.

Below are the settings for the Meze Empyrean.  Like the optimizing, I'm also nowhere near an expert with the RME...I'm wondering how I apply this to the PEQ.   Some parts seem obvious, for example, Band 1:  Set "F" to 60; "G" to -3.5; "Q" to 0.5.  But what, and where, is "BW"?  Also, for Band 2 the RME "F" only goes in increments of 10, so I chose 210.  Band 3: 1.90k, etc.

Also, for the Low and High Shelf's, those are the bass and treble knob adjs.  Gain is easy enough, but is there a way to adjust the Q and BW on those?


----------



## Moose246

Moose246 said:


> I just found an interesting Reddit thread about optimal EQ settings for the ADI depending on the headphone (even dependent on what pads used).  A user..."oratory1990"...uses some sort of optimizer based on a "Harman target".  I'm not going to pretend I know one iota about what that is or how they even optimize, but I was intrigued.
> 
> Below are the settings for the Meze Empyrean.  Like the optimizing, I'm also nowhere near an expert with the RME...I'm wondering how I apply this to the PEQ.   Some parts seem obvious, for example, Band 1:  Set "F" to 60; "G" to -3.5; "Q" to 0.5.  But what, and where, is "BW"?  Also, for Band 2 the RME "F" only goes in increments of 10, so I chose 210.  Band 3: 1.90k, etc.
> 
> Also, for the Low and High Shelf's, those are the bass and treble know adjs.  Gain is easy enough, but is there a way to adjust the Q and BW on those?




By comparison, here is the one for the Focal Utopia's, which I'll do as a preset as well.


----------



## BaltColts

How can one find this reddit thread?


----------



## mugbot

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets_rme_adi-2


----------



## Moose246

As I mentioned...I'm very much still learning the RME, apologies.  Simply going back a few threads I found how to access the B/T menu and their adjustments.

I also see there's a Parametric EQ section in the I/O menu...is that different than the graphical interface by clicking the EQ?

Still curious about BW....


----------



## skhan007

mugbot said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets_rme_adi-2


This is great stuff and I remember seeing it a while back. Still hoping that he'll post settings for ZMF Auteur and Verite Open. If anybody has their own settings for those, please post!


----------



## NOMOS (Jan 5, 2022)

Moose246 said:


> As I mentioned...I'm very much still learning the RME, apologies.  Simply going back a few threads I found how to access the B/T menu and their adjustments.
> 
> I also see there's a Parametric EQ section in the I/O menu...is that different than the graphical interface by clicking the EQ?
> 
> Still curious about BW....


The value BW can be calculated from the value Q and vice versa Q from the value BW .
There are EQs since you can enter the BW value .
But in the RME EQ, the value Q is used,
that's why you don't need the BW value in this case .
( BW = Bandwidth )


----------



## Moose246

I find those to be the real deal - tried the settings for both the Empyrean's and Utopia's and was blown away by the sound.  

I'll also say that I love the RME but didn't (probably still don't) know how to take advantage of it's capability, first and foremost the parametic EQ, which I know nothing about.  I thought I liked a certain type of EQ sound, usually done via whatever player I was using and very elementary (simple U-shape, for example).  The more I would tinker with each individual setting I would find that while it may have solved the issue I was using the slider for (more bass or less treble, for example), it would degrade the sum of the parts....which would cause further tinkering....which would lead to freq's being all over the place and an incredibly unnatural, odd sound.  The problem was I don't like a pure flat sound...ie just turning off all EQ altogether.  The settings from that site make everything come together, in my opinion.  Nothing overshadows something else....everything sounds natural.   A monumental game-changer for me personally.


----------



## skhan007

Moose246 said:


> I find those to be the real deal - tried the settings for both the Empyrean's and Utopia's and was blown away by the sound.
> 
> I'll also say that I love the RME but didn't (probably still don't) know how to take advantage of it's capability, first and foremost the parametic EQ, which I know nothing about.  I thought I liked a certain type of EQ sound, usually done via whatever player I was using and very elementary (simple U-shape, for example).  The more I would tinker with each individual setting I would find that while it may have solved the issue I was using the slider for (more bass or less treble, for example), it would degrade the sum of the parts....which would cause further tinkering....which would lead to freq's being all over the place and an incredibly unnatural, odd sound.  The problem was I don't like a pure flat sound...ie just turning off all EQ altogether.  The settings from that site make everything come together, in my opinion.  Nothing overshadows something else....everything sounds natural.   A monumental game-changer for me personally.


Agreed and I'm in the same situation. While I've read the manual numerous times and fully understand all the screens and options, I would love to learn more about EQ, beyond what simply sounds good to my ears. I'll usually use in a simplistic fashion and raise bass, keep midrange flat, and raise highs. This typically looks like "wide-U" shape. Sounds good to me, so I suppose at the end of the day, that's all that matters.


----------



## Mansinthe86

I wonder if someone here had the ADI DAC and could compare it to the matrix mini i3 (pro).

Im Looking for my personal "endgame" DAC and I would use both with a headphone amp.

The ADI DAC has probably more EQ features but I'm not really sure if I'm going to use that stuff.

Same for the mini i3. EQ, MQA is not that interesting to me. Roon endpoint and airplay is a "maybe".


----------



## brif

dougq said:


> This isn't really specific to the RME, but it's maybe something more people here might have experience with.  I am experiencing what I think is a lot of USB jitter with the RME (and other DACs).
> 
> I'm trying to see if it's related to running parallels too.
> I'm calling it jitter, but basically audio skips as if the CD is dirty . It's not specific to any music player.
> ...


I have the exact same problem. M1 Pro, parallels, skipping/cutting out.

Have you found any solution?  I have tried leaving parallels closed but it still happens.  It happens much more when parallels is running, but still happens when it is not.  I have been using the built in headphone port for a few days now because I got sick of troubleshooting the RME.


----------



## dougq

brif said:


> I have the exact same problem. M1 Pro, parallels, skipping/cutting out.
> 
> Have you found any solution?  I have tried leaving parallels closed but it still happens.  It happens much more when parallels is running, but still happens when it is not.  I have been using the built in headphone port for a few days now because I got sick of troubleshooting the RME.


The problem wasn't even specific to RME, i had the same issue with my jds element 2.  To be honest I just changed over to using my ipad pro.  Another positive of that is I get bit perfect music (Apple Music).  

It definitely seems specific to Parallels in my case, or at least from what I can tell.  I haven't had it happen with parallels closed but sometimes it'll frequently occur on just one song when running parallels.  I toyed with turning off all of the usb sharing. but no go.  JDS had responded back to me and hinted at it was a common issue with the new M1 mac's in general.  

Either way in the end like I said I moved to just using my IPad Pro (it's the 2018 version) for music.


----------



## Mansinthe86

brif said:


> I have the exact same problem. M1 Pro, parallels, skipping/cutting out.
> 
> Have you found any solution?  I have tried leaving parallels closed but it still happens.  It happens much more when parallels is running, but still happens when it is not.  I have been using the built in headphone port for a few days now because I got sick of troubleshooting the RME.



Does the matrix mini i3 have the same problem with the M1 Mac?


----------



## brif

Mansinthe86 said:


> Does the matrix mini i3 have the same problem with the M1 Mac?


I have never tried that on the Mac, sorry. It stands alone at my chair. Bought it for the streaming function.


----------



## brif

dougq said:


> The problem wasn't even specific to RME, i had the same issue with my jds element 2.  To be honest I just changed over to using my ipad pro.  Another positive of that is I get bit perfect music (Apple Music).
> 
> It definitely seems specific to Parallels in my case, or at least from what I can tell.  I haven't had it happen with parallels closed but sometimes it'll frequently occur on just one song when running parallels.  I toyed with turning off all of the usb sharing. but no go.  JDS had responded back to me and hinted at it was a common issue with the new M1 mac's in general.
> 
> Either way in the end like I said I moved to just using my IPad Pro (it's the 2018 version) for music.


I did some more digging and I agree.  It's a Mac issue.


----------



## Bazaar

Moose246 said:


> I find those to be the real deal - tried the settings for both the Empyrean's and Utopia's and was blown away by the sound.
> 
> I'll also say that I love the RME but didn't (probably still don't) know how to take advantage of it's capability, first and foremost the parametic EQ, which I know nothing about.  I thought I liked a certain type of EQ sound, usually done via whatever player I was using and very elementary (simple U-shape, for example).  The more I would tinker with each individual setting I would find that while it may have solved the issue I was using the slider for (more bass or less treble, for example), it would degrade the sum of the parts....which would cause further tinkering....which would lead to freq's being all over the place and an incredibly unnatural, odd sound.  The problem was I don't like a pure flat sound...ie just turning off all EQ altogether.  The settings from that site make everything come together, in my opinion.  Nothing overshadows something else....everything sounds natural.   A monumental game-changer for me personally.


Totally agree with you. I’ve settled into a custom setting that sounds good to my ears, and have just left it there, across a wide spectrum of music (everything but rap & opera). I should probably tinker with it a bit but not sure I really want to bother.


----------



## Unseen Aura

mat.1 said:


> Where to buy RMe adi 2 Dac that have a good price in USA ?


LunchboxAudio.com is where I got mine from. No tax, free shipping, and at the time I got it brand new for $1,150. I believe it's back to the usual $1,300 for now. 

I've never messed with the settings past bare essentials to get it up and running with the amp next to it, but may dabble in the future, don't really care enough, I like my sound the way it is. I have the Empyrean.


----------



## linecur

Hello, I´m thinking about the ADI2 like DAC for ipad mini music server. I would like to question about new version of chip - i heard that ESS isn´t "ideal" in comparsion to previous AKM, it´s a dramatical different or "something" in 1-2% order... Second, I have got offer to Moon HAD230 - do you have any opinion about compare this two DACs, please? Thanx for advice!


----------



## NickT23

Unseen Aura said:


> LunchboxAudio.com is where I got mine from. No tax, free shipping, and at the time I got it brand new for $1,150. I believe it's back to the usual $1,300 for now.
> 
> I've never messed with the settings past bare essentials to get it up and running with the amp next to it, but may dabble in the future, don't really care enough, I like my sound the way it is. I have the Empyrean.


hi, what is with the sticker on top of the RME ? Also, while you are at it, compare the Geshelli Erish balanced with the amp section of the RME. Could you share your impression for fun ?


----------



## arielext

linecur said:


> i heard that ESS isn´t "ideal" in comparsion to previous AKM


Source?


----------



## linecur

arielext said:


> Source?


Some discussion, nothing more...


----------



## Another Audiophile

linecur said:


> Hello, I´m thinking about the ADI2 like DAC for ipad mini music server. I would like to question about new version of chip - i heard that ESS isn´t "ideal" in comparsion to previous AKM, it´s a dramatical different or "something" in 1-2% order... Second, I have got offer to Moon HAD230 - do you have any opinion about compare this two DACs, please? Thanx for advice!


Have used both. Zero (0) difference


----------



## linecur

Another Audiophile said:


> Have used both. Zero (0) difference


OK, thanx for positiv answer, that sounds good...


----------



## jjss

arielext said:


> Source?





linecur said:


> Hello, I´m thinking about the ADI2 like DAC for ipad mini music server. I would like to question about new version of chip - i heard that ESS isn´t "ideal" in comparsion to previous AKM, it´s a dramatical different or "something" in 1-2% order... Second, I have got offer to Moon HAD230 - do you have any opinion about compare this two DACs, please? Thanx for advice!


Rather than something like "hear / say", suggest that you should go to the RME User Forum, there is a thread dedicated on the diff of chips used, rather than 2nd guessing. long story short, the change from AKM to ESS hasn't compromised the DAC's high technical standards and specs, albeit there are some design diff between the 2 chips like filters used


----------



## Audiophile PT

Any suggestions of Equalization settings for the Meze LYRIC with RME ?
Thanks !


----------



## Unseen Aura (Jan 11, 2022)

NickT23 said:


> hi, what is with the sticker on top of the RME ? Also, while you are at it, compare the Geshelli Erish balanced with the amp section of the RME. Could you share your impression for fun ?


That sticker on top is a vinyl wrap called biopulse hex by Vvivid. I've had the DAC for over a year now and warranty is I think 2 years. It's an excellently built product with no issues (for me) at all, so I broke the warranty seal on the last screw to remove that shell, then wrap it for custom looks/effect. RME has another anniversary edition that has a see-through panel on the top to look inside, I initially wanted that but keep the internals of this, and that proved impossible. I recently wrapped part of my Empyrean (shared on the Empyrean thread) and this was the only component in the chain all boring and simple black. Wrapping is fun and easy, just tedious and takes a ton of time and patience, so I do recommend it in general, for anyone wanting to do it but afraid like I was for years.

Comparing sound is something I'm schitt at, coupled with brain damage and wording and translating thoughts and connecting sounds to words is damn near impossible for me, I also have synesthesia so makes it even harder, haha. But this is the best I can do so here I go, although I can say to not be litigious of my words. The whole thing about we all hear and enjoy different things is very applicable here, tinnitus and slight hearing issues on my left side is something I actively have and deal with, all the things about me to keep in mind.

Also to keep in mind I went from a Red Dragonfly for a few months, to RME for a month or two, to the amp since then to now, which is about a year. I haven't listened and won't to just the DAC in ages. So memory on top of memory issues is not great. I know, so many warnings and heads up, but I learned too much about sound so have to. Alright, DAC is also unbalanced and amp is strictly balanced. I remember the amp to expand the soundstage, improve imaging, and bring forth some clarity. The background is more black, something I've come to really love, so might possibly have a desire to upgrade amps in the future, but until then I'm sticking to this for the foreseeable future, audio stuff is no longer at much of a priority now that I have a setup, so any future savings will first go to freediving or calisthenics or camping. You may have heard the term holographic for some cans, that's the feeling I got when jumping from the DAC's amp to the Erish, it felt ethereal-like, as if they are suspended in space. There's a certain crispiness/edginess in certain parts of the mids that's scratchy/cracky, like a sore itchy throat of sorts, it also goes away with the Geshelli amp. There is something about the balanced aspect that feels better to the ears, I was initially against anything past 3.5mm with the 6.3mm adapter, not even getting a dedicated quarter inch cable. I bought the RME as a blind purchase based on recommendation/advice of another HeadFier. I wanted a one and done that would be reliable and good resale value should I change my mind, clean and clear so no tweaking or adding of sound and I can hear the Empyrean as they are. Same for amp actually, both are blind purchases. Count the Empyrean as well, I got it after a ton of research as the best value overall for enjoyment and build and all. He was even nice enough to give a generic XLR cable. Anyway, I have trouble going back to single-ended. I do when I have to use the Dragonfly, but always prefer balanced. Actively considering saving for a future DAP purchase with balanced so I don't need to have a whole desktop setup to enjoy my headphones. Currently they're packed again because moving and having to box everything up.
  It made the bass a bit more visceral, the low end feels really nice, it's certainly more of a feeling than a hearing, which adds to the experience. Overall the sound has more meat and substance to it, doesn't feel quite as flattish as the RME. Comparing the Dragonfly to the DAC of course means ADI-2 wins, big step up from a dongle DAC in the $200 range. It's a means to an end, it's better than no dongle, but ultimately desktop in my exp has proven to be really much better. But my exp is also extremely limited. Oh, feels a tad airier, that word feels like a negative when I read it but it's not meant nor intended to be that way. Feels like the music has more space to breathe and expand its lungs so it's not as restricted.

I don't think I'm good at explaining and reading back feels outside of me might be hard to relate. Hopefully I'm wrong at least a little bit, I'm getting the Liric as part of my first ever tour and quite hesitant and tentative about it as my wording and thought process is worse since the accident. 🦇


----------



## NickT23

Unseen Aura said:


> That sticker on top is a vinyl wrap called biopulse hex by Vvivid. I've had the DAC for over a year now and warranty is I think 2 years. It's an excellently built product with no issues (for me) at all, so I broke the warranty seal on the last screw to remove that shell, then wrap it for custom looks/effect. RME has another anniversary edition that has a see-through panel on the top to look inside, I initially wanted that but keep the internals of this, and that proved impossible. I recently wrapped part of my Empyrean (shared on the Empyrean thread) and this was the only component in the chain all boring and simple black. Wrapping is fun and easy, just tedious and takes a ton of time and patience, so I do recommend it in general, for anyone wanting to do it but afraid like I was for years.
> 
> Comparing sound is something I'm schitt at, coupled with brain damage and wording and translating thoughts and connecting sounds to words is damn near impossible for me, I also have synesthesia so makes it even harder, haha. But this is the best I can do so here I go, although I can say to not be litigious of my words. The whole thing about we all hear and enjoy different things is very applicable here, tinnitus and slight hearing issues on my left side is something I actively have and deal with, all the things about me to keep in mind.
> 
> ...


Dint expect a long ass reply ! I will need time to read and understand. Really in depth !


----------



## Unseen Aura (Jan 11, 2022)

linecur said:


> Hello, I´m thinking about the ADI2 like DAC for ipad mini music server. I would like to question about new version of chip - i heard that ESS isn´t "ideal" in comparsion to previous AKM, it´s a dramatical different or "something" in 1-2% order... Second, I have got offer to Moon HAD230 - do you have any opinion about compare this two DACs, please? Thanx for advice!


I have the DAC with the AKM chip, snagged mine a bit before they ran out and had to switch chips. This is my approach to the whole ordeal.

It falls down mostly to psychology, brain, and personal nitpicking. Some folks choose to be super picky and snobby and selective, like wine and other certain alcohols. They insist they can tell the difference and prefer to stick and only be exposed to certain beverages, thus ensuring it's all they have and also mind over matter, they convince themselves and therefore it becomes reality. True blind testing without knowledge of the person as they do with studies in psychology can help determine and bust the myth, but such a setting is very hard to accomplish.

When I want to, I can hear a clear difference between a Blue and Red Dragonfly (AudioQuest). But predominantly otherwise I can't. When I'm actively trying, I can hear the difference between my Eletech Fortitude and Prudence cables against my generic and Hart Audio cables. When I'm not, I can't tell at all. This is just one example of someone I know first-hand, myself. Our brain is the most complicated organ in the known universe that rests on our shoulders, having active brain damage and the challenges that come with it, I can tell you very confidently that our brains do and take care of and adjust more than we will ever comprehend or fathom, in fact if it didn't most of us would be driven insane by how much our ears do pick up and hear, as I do quite often, and working very hard to move far away from humans and in turn away from the sounds/noises that hurt my brain and ears. Like the sound that comes from the speakers of cell phones, it's like that sound that drives dogs nuts, it's very bad

Point being, there's a 99.9999% chance you won't hear the difference, but you will hear it all if you want to and believe you can. It's the same logic of why some folks firmly believe a cloth over the mouth will suffocate you and prevent you from breathing, the belief is so strong the mind makes it a reality. I'm sure you've heard of placebo (or even nocebo), which is the same stuff essentially. While there's no doubt that some humans have excellent and trained hearing, some things are very much a figment of the human mind and we hear because we want to or think there is a difference or even getting caught up in the hype of others who swear by their life that there's something different to hear. You may very well be listening more intently next time or focusing more on a specific area and hear new things, not because they weren't there but because you never focused on it initially (I've had this happen to me many many times). 🦇


----------



## Matias

Audiophile PT said:


> Any suggestions of Equalization settings for the Meze LYRIC with RME ?
> Thanks !


You can try these below. Be sure to have the latest firmware on your ADI-2 so that it can save Bass and Treble parameters along with the other 5 PEQs.

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 37.05 Hz Gain -2.16 dB Q 0.59
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 105.27 Hz Gain -4.53 dB Q 1.52
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1080.37 Hz Gain -4.68 dB Q 1.42
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 2060.12 Hz Gain 4.07 dB Q 2.64
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 3733.82 Hz Gain 5.75 dB Q 3.37
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 7089.08 Hz Gain 7.00 dB Q 3.76
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 8429.41 Hz Gain -5.90 dB Q 4.96

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...view-closed-back-headphone.29404/post-1027983


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## RPGWiZaRD (Jan 12, 2022)

I finally bit the bullet after first looking at this equipment probably like 1 year ago already, this will be a massive jump for me that is used to like below 250€ or so costing DACs in the past, so it was felt in my wallet for sure.  Will be a long wait until 18-19th when it's supposed to arrive. I like what I read about the company in question in how transparent they try to be like and this device is definitely my sort of thing (I'm the guy who loves fiddling around with settings n stuff and don't find sources with just inputs and outputs equally interesting, how wonderful they might sound)

I'm a bit of a hobby mastering engineer for Hardstyle music especially when I help out newcomer producers and this fiddly all kinds of built-in settings will suit me perfectly, initially I was also thinking about for example a separate hardware EQ of some sort (preferably 10-band) but figured might as well go this jack of all trades nearly "top-of-the-line" source. Part of the problem I'm used to my M-Audio Q40's sound having used these for probably 15 or something years exclusively so I know them like inside out how recordings should sound like on these to sound balanced in general, as soon as you swap cable or pads or whatever it always messes up the sound or worse, they will break like my first pair did and I'm on my second (I'm suprised the plasticky supported side hinges even stood up for hrs daily use for some good 15 years of use) so being able to adjust stuff will definitely come handy when you have to move to other headphones with a different signature out of box so it won't be such a massive shock.

Will be interesting to hear if there's going to be any noticeable differences as I don't have any previous experience with more highend DACs. I was looking up discussions regarding AKM vs ESS differences like I suspect has been a big debate regarding this DAC but since all new units sold are ESS might as well just go for that.


----------



## zen87192

Is there an Equalization setting for the Audeze LCD-5 for the RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition?


----------



## dtaylor3911

RPGWiZaRD said:


> I finally bit the bullet after first looking at this equipment probably like 1 year ago already, this will be a massive jump for me that is used to like below 250€ or so costing DACs in the past, so it was felt in my wallet for sure.  Will be a long wait until 18-19th when it's supposed to arrive. I like what I read about the company in question in how transparent they try to be like and this device is definitely my sort of thing (I'm the guy who loves fiddling around with settings n stuff and don't find sources with just inputs and outputs equally interesting, how wonderful they might sound)
> 
> I'm a bit of a hobby mastering engineer for Hardstyle music especially when I help out newcomer producers and this fiddly all kinds of built-in settings will suit me perfectly, initially I was also thinking about for example a separate hardware EQ of some sort (preferably 10-band) but figured might as well go this jack of all trades nearly "top-of-the-line" source. Part of the problem I'm used to my M-Audio Q40's sound having used these for probably 15 or something years exclusively so I know them like inside out how recordings should sound like on these to sound balanced in general, as soon as you swap cable or pads or whatever it always messes up the sound or worse, they will break like my first pair did and I'm on my second (I'm suprised the plasticky supported side hinges even stood up for hrs daily use for some good 15 years of use) so being able to adjust stuff will definitely come handy when you have to move to other headphones with a different signature out of box so it won't be such a massive shock.
> 
> Will be interesting to hear if there's going to be any noticeable differences as I don't have any previous experience with more highend DACs. I was looking up discussions regarding AKM vs ESS differences like I suspect has been a big debate regarding this DAC but since all new units sold are ESS might as well just go for that.


I upgraded from my fx audio x6 last year, and initially was a bit disappointed as the sound wasn't different tbh. More powerful louder volume but not much else initially. I've stuck with it as the extra volume is useful and I think ultimately I will move the unit to my lounge to be fed from TV optical output for listening in comfort to amazon music. In this setting the built in EQ will be very useful as no other software etc required. I haven't got into using EQ yet but am doing so via pc to learn more about my tastes etc. I plan to master the adi controls and then have preset EQ for different listening sessions. Sounds like you have more experience in audio than me so maybe you are already prepared for the change not instantly being spectacular.


----------



## skhan007

Question about EQ- I found the graph below, that shows the target (green) and the Verite Open curve (dotted line). If I want the EQ to compensate for the headphone's curve, do I look estimate the frequency and boost/cut by a few db? For example, would I raise 3.5 kHz about 5 db to compensate for the natural dip that I see?

I could not find any exact numbers to enter in the Parametric EQ screen for these headphones and was curious how you guys would approach this?


----------



## Matias

skhan007 said:


> Question about EQ- I found the graph below, that shows the target (green) and the Verite Open curve (dotted line). If I want the EQ to compensate for the headphone's curve, do I look estimate the frequency and boost/cut by a few db? For example, would I raise 3.5 kHz about 5 db to compensate for the natural dip that I see?
> 
> I could not find any exact numbers to enter in the Parametric EQ screen for these headphones and was curious how you guys would approach this?


Filter 1: ON PK Fc 21 Hz Gain 3.6 dB Q 2.05
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 1624 Hz Gain 2.3 dB Q 4.76
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 3806 Hz Gain 6.8 dB Q 2.74
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 8651 Hz Gain 4.0 dB Q 3.35
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 10597 Hz Gain 4.6 dB Q 3.42
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 224 Hz Gain -3.5 dB Q 0.55
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 855 Hz Gain -2.8 dB Q 2.27

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au...acle/ears-711_harman_over-ear_2018/ZMF Verite


----------



## skhan007

Matias said:


> Filter 1: ON PK Fc 21 Hz Gain 3.6 dB Q 2.05
> Filter 2: ON PK Fc 1624 Hz Gain 2.3 dB Q 4.76
> Filter 3: ON PK Fc 3806 Hz Gain 6.8 dB Q 2.74
> Filter 4: ON PK Fc 8651 Hz Gain 4.0 dB Q 3.35
> ...


Great, thank you!! I'll give this a try. I'm assuming that since I have 5 bands on the ADI-2 DAC (vs. 7 in the recommendation), I'll pick and choose which frequencies sound best to me?


----------



## Matias

skhan007 said:


> Great, thank you!! I'll give this a try. I'm assuming that since I have 5 bands on the ADI-2 DAC (vs. 7 in the recommendation), I'll pick and choose which frequencies sound best to me?


Update firmware to allow saving Bass and Treble knob settings to EQ presets, and adjust their frequency, Q and gain, so that in practice you have 7 bands of PEQ.


----------



## NickT23

Hello guys, my RME unable to function properly and probably dead on arrival. Red light blinking and unable to power them. Am going to return and refund the unit. Has anyone have faulty or DOA RME before ? Or am I the only one ?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

NickT23 said:


> Hello guys, my RME unable to function properly and probably dead on arrival. Red light blinking and unable to power them. Am going to return and refund the unit. Has anyone have faulty or DOA RME before ? Or am I the only one ?


This comes up on the RME forums once in a while. Check that you have the right PSU connected, that you have twisted and locked the plug in place, and if that doesn't work, check the RME forums for the factory reset procedure. The guys there will help, the main RME guy is active there and can help get you RMAd if necessary.


----------



## NickT23

gimmeheadroom said:


> This comes up on the RME forums once in a while. Check that you have the right PSU connected, that you have twisted and locked the plug in place, and if that doesn't work, check the RME forums for the factory reset procedure. The guys there will help, the main RME guy is active there and can help get you RMAd if necessary.


Oh really ? Dint know. Even the blinking ones ? I did use the right PSU given in the box but still have that red blinking LED. 

I bought it at my local dealer and will proceed to refund.


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## gimmeheadroom

NickT23 said:


> Oh really ? Dint know. Even the blinking ones ? I did use the right PSU given in the box but still have that red blinking LED.
> 
> I bought it at my local dealer and will proceed to refund.


Yeah to be honest I'm not sure if the factory reset helped in the small number of cases I read. In one, the guy said it didn't help. I don't remember the others but it's 20 seconds and if you can avoid having to send it back that would be great. Superb DAC, sorry you're having problems.


----------



## NickT23

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah to be honest I'm not sure if the factory reset helped in the small number of cases I read. In one, the guy said it didn't help. I don't remember the others but it's 20 seconds and if you can avoid having to send it back that would be great. Superb DAC, sorry you're having problems.


I dont think its possible since I can confirm its not working. I mean I cant even get the RME ADI 2 FS to even powered it on. Just blinking red light. Disappointing ! I will have to buy another after the refund. 

Also, by the way, my $200 amp/dac has better built quality than the RME. But the RME sheer attention to detail and precision in aluminium machining is very nice. And that top smooth textured aluminium is so nice as well. The side vent smells like car leather seat for some reason. It look small and portable for some reason. Amazing but a broken product. DOA perhaps.


----------



## Another Audiophile

NickT23 said:


> I dont think its possible since I can confirm its not working. I mean I cant even get the RME ADI 2 FS to even powered it on. Just blinking red light. Disappointing ! I will have to buy another after the refund.
> 
> Also, by the way, my $200 amp/dac has better built quality than the RME. But the RME sheer attention to detail and precision in aluminium machining is very nice. And that top smooth textured aluminium is so nice as well. The side vent smells like car leather seat for some reason. It look small and portable for some reason. Amazing but a broken product. DOA perhaps.


Why don’t you ask for a replacement instead of a refund?


----------



## Olmanwood123

NickT23 said:


> I dont think its possible since I can confirm its not working. I mean I cant even get the RME ADI 2 FS to even powered it on. Just blinking red light. Disappointing ! I will have to buy another after the refund.
> 
> Also, by the way, my $200 amp/dac has better built quality than the RME. But the RME sheer attention to detail and precision in aluminium machining is very nice. And that top smooth textured aluminium is so nice as well. The side vent smells like car leather seat for some reason. It look small and portable for some reason. Amazing but a broken product. DOA perhaps.


It’s not a bad product at all. Quite the opposite. Sometimes frustration clouds things. Understanbly. Give it a chance (the replacement that is). Hope it works out.


----------



## NickT23

Another Audiophile said:


> Why don’t you ask for a replacement instead of a refund?


I did. But they have no more stock and supplies. Also it will take a very long time and also, they are waiting for email response by RME themselves. By the way, I am dealing with my horrible local dealer but am not going to comment, unrelated to the thread. But still, at least I get my refund and hope I get a new one. Or I could go for a cheaper dac for the mean time. 

I would like to get the silver ones by the way. I may opt for that.


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## gimmeheadroom (Jan 17, 2022)

NickT23 said:


> I dont think its possible since I can confirm its not working. I mean I cant even get the RME ADI 2 FS to even powered it on. Just blinking red light.


I understand, which is why it's worth trying the factory reset. Nothing to lose.



NickT23 said:


> Disappointing ! I will have to buy another after the refund.
> 
> Also, by the way, my $200 amp/dac has better built quality than the RME.


Yeah, at first glance the build quality is not impressive for that amount of money. It feels flimsy and disposable compared to my Brooklyn DAC+ that sits next to it.

But once you set it up! Wow, that sound! Then you realize it's worth every penny.

Sorry you had a rough start. I believe if you hang in there you will know why we're on page 318 of the thread


----------



## NickT23

Olmanwood123 said:


> It’s not a bad product at all. Quite the opposite. Sometimes frustration clouds things. Understanbly. Give it a chance (the replacement that is). Hope it works out.


Yes I agree though I never get to test it out yet. That is why I want to buy another one. Have been following RME thread since like 2017 if not mistaken.


----------



## NickT23

gimmeheadroom said:


> I understand, which is why it's worth trying the factory reset. Nothing to lose.
> 
> 
> Yeah, at first glance the build quality is not impressive for that amount of money. It feels flimsy and disposable compared to my Brooklyn DAC+ that sits next to it.
> ...


318 pg ? lol what is that suppose to mean ? Thanks

By the way, why own both RME and Brooklyn ?


----------



## NickT23

Olmanwood123 said:


> It’s not a bad product at all. Quite the opposite. Sometimes frustration clouds things. Understanbly. Give it a chance (the replacement that is). Hope it works out.


Best to refund. Because it will be a very long time before they could get me a replacement. See how though. I got it at $1200 by the way. 

We are going through some tough time especially with supply chain issue.


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## gimmeheadroom

NickT23 said:


> 318 pg ? lol what is that suppose to mean ? Thanks


There are a lot of fans of the DAC, so the thread is 318 pages long. 



NickT23 said:


> By the way, why own both RME and Brooklyn ?


Why not? I have a bunch more DACs than that 

Longer answer, I have a bunch of systems spread across two apartments. The RME and Brooklyn are in my headstation. The RME EQ is great for making some minor corrections to headphones and I bought it before I had the money for the Brooklyn. I wanted the best MQA DAC I could get and I'm very happy with the Brooklyn build quality and feature set.


----------



## NickT23

gimmeheadroom said:


> There are a lot of fans of the DAC, so the thread is 318 pages long.
> 
> 
> Why not? I have a bunch more DACs than that
> ...


Make sense because way in the future am considering streamer, MQA, ethernet/bluetooth and either NOS/multibit. By the way, am quite poor.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

NickT23 said:


> Make sense because way in the future am considering streamer, MQA, ethernet/bluetooth and either NOS/multibit. By the way, am quite poor.


The Brooklyn DAC+ does not stream but they do have a streamer. Most of their stuff used to be pro gear for studios, but they made a big change last year or so and they're moving towards big money hifi and home theatre gear. Out of my price range.

For an MQA streamer, the Roksan Atessa looks pretty good. And the Bluesound Node 2i is a great value in streamers also.


----------



## Another Audiophile

To be honest I was a bit frustrated at the beginning with all this complexity but I gave it a bit of time. I was about to sell it but now I am very happy with it. We’ve grown to know each other 😂


----------



## RPGWiZaRD (Jan 18, 2022)

Just got mine so will put it to test but I kind of like what I hear out of box, pretty neutral sounding indeed.


----------



## NickT23

gimmeheadroom said:


> The Brooklyn DAC+ does not stream but they do have a streamer. Most of their stuff used to be pro gear for studios, but they made a big change last year or so and they're moving towards big money hifi and home theatre gear. Out of my price range.
> 
> For an MQA streamer, the Roksan Atessa looks pretty good. And the Bluesound Node 2i is a great value in streamers also.


I think the RME is still the best in terms of value. And by the maybe you or others can help me out. I have emailed RME and waiting for their response of their reasoning. While subjective and everybody needs is different, to me the RME is almost perfect AIO. 

*So why not include MQA, streamer & ethernet port, bluetooth, measurement based & powerful amplifier and much more powerful pre-amp ? *
I have always wish they had a bigger screen. Comes with fancy remote. Better amp measurement and power. Have multiple streaming services and streamer. Have wireless bluetooth and ethernet connection. Colours options whether we want it colourless or RGB colours for the buttons such as power button.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

NickT23 said:


> I think the RME is still the best in terms of value. And by the maybe you or others can help me out. I have emailed RME and waiting for their response of their reasoning. While subjective and everybody needs is different, to me the RME is almost perfect AIO.
> 
> *So why not include MQA, streamer & ethernet port, bluetooth, measurement based & powerful amplifier and much more powerful pre-amp ? *
> I have always wish they had a bigger screen. Comes with fancy remote. Better amp measurement and power. Have multiple streaming services and streamer. Have wireless bluetooth and ethernet connection. Colours options whether we want it colourless or RGB colours for the buttons such as power button.


RME is a pro audio company (that means studio, production etc.) They are mostly not targeting hifi users. It's true this DAC has found fans in hifi, but the stuff you mentioned is just not something most of the customers want and obviously RME doesn't want to do. And they would triple the price.

If you want that stuff there are already products available.


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## HIFIloverM (Jan 18, 2022)

Hey all, I got the adi-2 dac last week and I use it with my 64 Audio u12t. I really like what I hear! I love how effortless the music is rendered. At first its settings were a bit overwhelming, but after a while of usage it wasn't too complicated at all. Great device!


----------



## dzigi12 (Jan 18, 2022)

Hello all,

Yesterday I have bought RMI ADI-2 PRO FS R Black Edition and I have few questions regarding configuration. I'm not very technical with audio options so I thought it would be best to ask someone here. I have Sennheiser HD800S headphones and I'll use them with ADI-2 mostly for gaming and occasionally movies. I don't listen music ( sometimes youtube videos ) so I need best possible configuration for games/movies.

I've installed driver and I've updated firmware to v111. I'm using Windows 10.

First question is about Sample Rate in MADIface Series Settings. By default it's 44.1kHz and I have tried to change it to for example 192kHz while listening youtube music video and sound is better/richer on 192kHz. Do I need to change that setting to some other Sample Rate and what about Buffer Size ( Latency )? When I change Sample Rate, Buffer Size changes automatically.

Second question is about CC-Mode. By default it's Stereo and I can change it to Multichannel but when I do that I don't have any sound on headphones. Do I need to change that to Multichannel because better positional sound for gaming or Stereo is way to go? Or Multichannel option is for something else?

I've tried to use EQ settings and I've used oratory1990 preset for HD800S and when I have done that sound is less loud/rich. Not very much but I can notice it when I'm listening youtube music video and turning EQ setting ON/OFF. Is it better to use that EQ settings for gaming or not? Is that setting for professional music reproduction or universal better setting then default.
https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory199..._rme_adi-2#wiki_list_of_presets_for_rme_adi-2

Also do I need to change something in ADI-2 options because there are many options there I don't even know what they do. I'm mostly interested in option Loudness and Hi-Power/Auto Ref Level. If you have some recommendation it would be great.

Before ADI-2 I've used Mayflower ARC Mk2 + oratory1990 preset with Peace software as first DAC/AMP with HD800S and it was great but not very loud and I wanted to buy ADI-2 as my endgame setup for gaming/movies but it has many more options. I want to configure it and forget about it.

And what to do with default windows volume? Do I put that option to max 100 and use only ADI-2 for sound level?

Thank you in advance.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I can't answer all of this but a few quick thoughts:


There is a separate thread for the Pro. If you don't get answers here, check that thread and ask if your question remains unanswered
Ideally, you would be using the ASIO driver in exclusive (bit perfect) mode and control the volume on your DAC. You really, REALLY, don't want Windows sound mixer screwing up your audio. Yes the normal USB driver works, but no, that's not a good idea
The RME non pro version is not really a great match with the 800s (that's plural like pair of pants) I don't have the 800S. When I listen to my 800s out of my RME I use a separate headamp. I know this is contentious but the 300 ohm Sennies really need more voltage than most DACamps provide. At least make sure you turn on high-power mode...


----------



## dzigi12

I can't answer all of this but a few quick thoughts:


Ideally, you would be using the ASIO driver in exclusive (bit perfect) mode and control the volume on your DAC. You really, REALLY, don't want Windows sound mixer screwing up your audio. Yes the normal USB driver works, but no, that's not a good idea
At least make sure you turn on high-power mode...
What do you mean by this "ASIO driver in exclusive (bit perfect)"? I've installed this driver "driver_madiface_win_09747.zip". After restart I got new program in launch bar called "MADIface Series Settings" where I can change Sample Rate and Buffer Size ( Latency ). Option Enable MMCSS for ASIO is checked by default. And I have 2 more unchecked options "Lock Registry" and "Limit ASIO to 32 channels". There is one field called Sort ASIO devices and by default is "Do not modify".

In Windows Playback Device default is Analog (1+2) (RME ADI-2 PRO). That is volume bar in Windows and I can control volume there and I can control volume on DAC at same time. If I mute volume in Windows it will be muted on headphones also. I can put volume at 100 in Windows and forget about it and I can just use knob on DAC for volume.

I've turn on High Power mode just now. What is point of that? And do I need to turn Auto Ref Level also if High Power Mode is ON?


----------



## dougq

dzigi12 said:


> I can't answer all of this but a few quick thoughts:
> 
> 
> Ideally, you would be using the ASIO driver in exclusive (bit perfect) mode and control the volume on your DAC. You really, REALLY, don't want Windows sound mixer screwing up your audio. Yes the normal USB driver works, but no, that's not a good idea
> ...


You do not need to turn on high power mode.  Just leave auto ref level on.  That will put you into high power mode if required for full dynamic range. 
You look like you are all set, you don't need to fuss with anything by default, or even after installing the driver.

The RME has a substantial amount of power / voltage to push the HD800s beyond hearing limits.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

dzigi12 said:


> What do you mean by this "ASIO driver in exclusive (bit perfect)"? I've installed this driver "driver_madiface_win_09747.zip". After restart I got new program in launch bar called "MADIface Series Settings" where I can change Sample Rate and Buffer Size ( Latency ). Option Enable MMCSS for ASIO is checked by default. And I have 2 more unchecked options "Lock Registry" and "Limit ASIO to 32 channels". There is one field called Sort ASIO devices and by default is "Do not modify".
> 
> In Windows Playback Device default is Analog (1+2) (RME ADI-2 PRO). That is volume bar in Windows and I can control volume there and I can control volume on DAC at same time.


If you have the drivers installed in Windows (non trivial, unfortunately with RME) then you will not be able to control the volume from Windows. ASIO / exclusive mode outputs a 0 dB signal and you control volume at the DAC.



dzigi12 said:


> If I mute volume in Windows it will be muted on headphones also. I can put volume at 100 in Windows and forget about it and I can just use knob on DAC for volume.


Sounds like something is missing but I don't have a Windows box running right now so I can't tell.



dzigi12 said:


> I've turn on High Power mode just now. What is point of that? And do I need to turn Auto Ref Level also if High Power Mode is ON?


Your HD800S are gonna do better in high power mode which increases the amp gain. I don't use auto ref and I don't know if it is useful for headphones. Some people use it for driving speaker amps.

I suggest you sign up for RME's forums and ask your questions there.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD (Jan 19, 2022)

Hmm, I personally don't find the parametric EQ gives me expected results if I compare to say the 10-band EQ in the Dolby Access Windows Store that is my current favorite as far as software EQs goes (that comes with Dolby Atmos for Headphones). Comparing the result I get with similar configs on both and the result is more pleasing using the software EQ in my case. In particular even if sticking to minor adjustments like below 2dB adjustments which is enough for this headphone in the upper-mid region it's like the changes kill the dynamics and impact pretty significantly making it far less engaging to listen to. Meanwhile if I stick to same settings on the software EQ in the Dolby Access app, even with a 2dB boost to the upper-mid 2kHz region (it kind of even helps to strengthen the EDM kind of bassbeat when the punch of the beat is brought more forward as the M-Audio Q40 headphone has slight recess there muddying things upp in the lows a bit as a result but with RME ADI-2 DACs EQ it also seems to have a impact to lows rather significantly, so it's a bit different than I expected. Other hardware as well as software EQs I've had closer result to the Dolby Atmos one so it was a bit suprising result. Perhaps this DAC could use a Wet/dry sort of filter that say if I have one filter set at +2dB and one filter at -1dB and setting the Wet/Dry slider to 50%, it would only (theoretically) give me +1dB and -0.5dB adjustments respectively but keeping the same figure but I suppose you could also adjust every peak filter slightly less but I don't seem to get the same result anyway I do it. On the other hand I find both the "Loudness" and Bass and Treble settings to work decently or at least give more expected results if sticking to low amounts, in fact I find I have to use very slight amount of that in order to give similar results to my other favorite DAC option for the headphones I typically use that has a bit equal sound to the RME ADI-2 DAC if using loudness of both bass and treble at like +2~3dB and -28dB on low-vol ref (while playback vol is set to -24dB).

Is it the "auto-ref level" perhaps that keeps adjusting the overall gain as I adjust EQ (on the positive side of zero) which would explain why I hear a noticeable drop in impact if I boost the upper-mids (2dB in my case) in case that setting also reduces gain by 2dB perhaps? Have to to try disable auto ref level and see whether that might be the case.

EDIT: Yes it appears like it was due to "auto ref level" being on that was causing that behavior, the EQ is behaving like I had expected with it turned off from a quick listen.

EDIT2: If I may ask those who are more knowledgeable about these things, what kind of gain setting would be ideal to achieve maximum dynamicness if leaving slight headroom for clipping when starting to play around with EQ if not using auto-ref level setting, like does it matter if I use a gain setting that keeps me say in the -20dB or -10dB range or so?


----------



## Matias

And more firmware updates.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34588


----------



## NickedWicked

The last firmware update, ADI-2 DAC 66 / 47 and ADI-2 Pro 259 / 111, see thread here

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34364

was well received and gave us a good time over Christmas and New Year. Thank you all for the positive feedback, it is so nice to see how you love the devices that we invest so much thought and time in!

The new update fixes one bug in the Pro, and does some fine tuning and finalizing of the new features added in that last firmware update:


*Pro and DAC*

- BB and BT have been added as band 0 and band 6 to the grapical EQ screen. They become adjustable as soon as _Load B/T with Preset_ is set to ON. This finalizes the integration of B/T into the 5-band EQ, turing it into an easy to use 7-band one.

- Digital DC Protection got a third option: _Filter_. And from now on this one is Default. Existing customers need to select it manually. Filter adds a special, smooth high pass to the DA path, with zero latency, very low THD and phase deviation. This filter has a corner frequency of 7 Hz, to not only cancel DC but also reduce the amount of inaudible and imperceptible infrasound a bit that plagues some sources. The filter is the final solution for this topic, added to the FPGA, not the (already overloaded) DSP.

- Auto Standby now has the options 30min, 1h, 2h and 4h.

- Some visualization tuning: the horizontal level meter got 10 dB markers...


*Pro*

- Bugfix: USB recording from digital inputs works again in multichannel mode

- Selecting Display - Horizontal Meter - Post FX dBu now also shows dBu for the analog input. While this can be handy to measure the incoming signal, one will only see valid values when there is no processing active.

That's all, folks. Small list this time but we are sure you will like it!


*The firmware update tools:*

Win: https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fut_madiface_win.zip

Mac: https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fut_madiface_mac.zip


*Updated manuals Pro, v 3.5:*

German: https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2profsr_d.pdf

English: https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2profsr_e.pdf


*Updated manuals DAC, v 3.0:*

German: https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2dacr_d.pdf

English: https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2dacr_e.pdf


----------



## Matias

NickedWicked said:


> The last firmware update, ADI-2 DAC 66 / 47 and ADI-2 Pro 259 / 111, see thread here
> 
> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34364
> 
> ...


This was released last month, the link I posted above your is from yesterday, so a newer version.


----------



## NickedWicked

Matias said:


> This was released last month, the link I posted above your is from yesterday, so a newer version.


I think you misread, I'm just quoting what was in the link. The first link was an introduction sentence, but it is a bit confusing nonetheless.


----------



## arielext

> - BB and BT have been added as band 0 and band 6 to the grapical EQ screen. They become adjustable as soon as _Load B/T with Preset_ is set to ON. This finalizes the integration of B/T into the 5-band EQ, turing it into an easy to use 7-band one.


Welcome addition to last years final release. Fun fact is that most of my presets are now flat with a variable bass boost.
This device is a gift that keeps on giving. Truly destroyed my urge to get another DAC.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD (Jan 21, 2022)

The ADI-2 FS has been nothing but an impressive piece DAC these couple of days I've been using it. Due to the vast adjustability/settings it's easy to dial in what works perfect for your needs, this DAC is probably here to stay for a long time to come. Glad to see there's still updates being pushed out too. 

In fact the only thing I'm missing on it would be an SPDIF toslink output that the expensier version has, would like to able to hook up a BT Transmitter/Reciever to it as well via optical so I could utilize the EQ functionality that the DAC has to offer also my my late-night YouTube ASMR relaxing sessions before bedtime via my Bluetooth headphones. The Bluetooth transmitter do have an AUX input as well but it results in background noise which the SPDIF connectivity is entirely free from (I've nailed it down to the port on the dongle itself as hooking another another source has exactly the same amount noise floor and characteristics to the hum). What do you guys think would be the solution for that? As I see it the only alternative would be some RCA to optical converter but I'm not sure if it's worth it or not, those only come in cheap offerings on amazon and the like https://www.amazon.com/s?k=rca+to+toslink&crid=D6VHHHGVJD8U&sprefix=rca+to+toslink,aps,213&ref=nb_sb_noss_1 but  unsure how well they do the job and what the noise levels would be like, I'm not super-picky regarding the late-night bluetooth listening sessions but needs to be hum-free and still offer "decent" audio quality. I guess there's no other way around it to try a converter like listed above or get another BT dongle that offers better quality aux or alternative inputs.


----------



## technobear

RPGWiZaRD said:


> The ADI-2 FS has been nothing but an impressive piece DAC these couple of days I've been using it. Due to the vast adjustability/settings it's easy to dial in what works perfect for your needs, this DAC is probably here to stay for a long time to come. Glad to see there's still updates being pushed out too.
> 
> In fact the only thing I'm missing on it would be an SPDIF toslink output that the expensier version has, would like to able to hook up a BT Transmitter/Reciever to it as well via optical so I could utilize the EQ functionality that the DAC has to offer also my my late-night YouTube ASMR relaxing sessions before bedtime via my Bluetooth headphones. The Bluetooth transmitter do have an AUX input as well but it results in background noise which the SPDIF connectivity is entirely free from (I've nailed it down to the port on the dongle itself as hooking another another source has exactly the same amount noise floor and characteristics to the hum). What do you guys think would be the solution for that? As I see it the only alternative would be some RCA to optical converter but I'm not sure if it's worth it or not, those only come in cheap offerings on amazon and the like https://www.amazon.com/s?k=rca+to+toslink&crid=D6VHHHGVJD8U&sprefix=rca+to+toslink,aps,213&ref=nb_sb_noss_1 but  unsure how well they do the job and what the noise levels would be like, I'm not super-picky regarding the late-night bluetooth listening sessions but needs to be hum-free and still offer "decent" audio quality. I guess there's no other way around it to try a converter like listed above or get another BT dongle that offers better quality aux or alternative inputs.


Forget Bluetooth. Just use a headphone extension cable.


----------



## kazaakas

Oh folks, I got a post for y'all that is just great fun. On a Polish forum, a guy A/B tested the RME ADI-2 vs a dCS Debussy, which is a >$10k DAC, and was not able to discern them. Here is the translation: https://www-audiostereo-pl.translat..._x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp#comment-5101836


----------



## gimmeheadroom

kazaakas said:


> Oh folks, I got a post for y'all that is just great fun. On a Polish forum, a guy A/B tested the RME ADI-2 vs a dCS Debussy, which is a >$10k DAC, and was not able to discern them. Here is the translation: https://www-audiostereo-pl.translat..._x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp#comment-5101836


Ok this really doesn't matter.


----------



## betula (Jan 27, 2022)

kazaakas said:


> Oh folks, I got a post for y'all that is just great fun. On a Polish forum, a guy A/B tested the RME ADI-2 vs a dCS Debussy, which is a >$10k DAC, and was not able to discern them. Here is the translation: https://www-audiostereo-pl.translat..._x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp#comment-5101836


It doesn't mean an awful lot, if one person can't hear a difference between the RME and a dCS DAC.
Some people can't hear a difference between two headphones, some can't hear a difference between amps, some can't hear a difference between DACs, some can't hear a difference between DAC filters...
Blind testing ourselves would be a more interesting idea, but again that is only helpful to the individual to discover their own limits.


----------



## 04gto

kazaakas said:


> Oh folks, I got a post for y'all that is just great fun. On a Polish forum, a guy A/B tested the RME ADI-2 vs a dCS Debussy, which is a >$10k DAC, and was not able to discern them. Here is the translation: https://www-audiostereo-pl.translat..._x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp#comment-5101836


Nice post. These findings are what will happen 99.9% of the time in blind listening tests. As long as you have a 'good' DAC they are going to sound the same. Once you reach 'good' then it is all about which DAC has the features you need. The RME ADI-2 DAC (and PRO) have reached 'good' (great really). Their feature set is what makes them the very best DACs available _to me. _

Once you have reached 'good'. All of these "hi-end" or "TOTL" DACs will sound EXACTLY the same in blind testing. The differences in these DACs are barely measurable and not audible. Even with different power supplies. In a double BLIND test, they are all 'the best'. Even professional audio engineers with decades of experience and trained ears can not RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY tell the difference. Then if some can get lucky and say 'this one is different' it is usually because the DAC filters are a little different and this will effect the treble volume perception very slightly (1-2 db). Then on the next blind test, with the same conditions, they will have a different result. Why? Because they basically all sound the same. Spend your money on headphones (or speakers) and amplifiers not DACs, unless you need certain features in the DAC. 

 If you are someone who claims you can tell the difference? Double blind test or it did not happen. Signed- Not an audiophile.


----------



## Moose246

Not trying to start a firestorm here, as I know there are some mighty strong opinions on similar topics, but is anyone using any auxiliary components with their ADI-2?  I've read that an upgraded power supply isn't necessary given the ADI's is excellent, but yet many people seem to use various units (teddy pardo, sboosters, etc).  What about USB products, like UpTone ISO Regan or something as expensive as a Pink Faun USB Bridge?

My source is a desktop PC, which may be inferior to a streaming device, so just curious if there are benefits to be had.


----------



## NickT23

04gto said:


> Nice post. These findings are what will happen 99.9% of the time in blind listening tests. As long as you have a 'good' DAC they are going to sound the same. Once you reach 'good' then it is all about which DAC has the features you need. The RME ADI-2 DAC (and PRO) have reached 'good' (great really). Their feature set is what makes them the very best DACs available _to me. _
> 
> Once you have reached 'good'. All of these "hi-end" or "TOTL" DACs will sound EXACTLY the same in blind testing. The differences in these DACs are barely measurable and not audible. Even with different power supplies. In a double BLIND test, they are all 'the best'. Even professional audio engineers with decades of experience and trained ears can not RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY tell the difference. Then if some can get lucky and say 'this one is different' it is usually because the DAC filters are a little different and this will effect the treble volume perception very slightly (1-2 db). Then on the next blind test, with the same conditions, they will have a different result. Why? Because they basically all sound the same. Spend your money on headphones (or speakers) and amplifiers not DACs, unless you need certain features in the DAC.
> 
> If you are someone who claims you can tell the difference? Double blind test or it did not happen. Signed- Not an audiophile.


I have gone through many forums but many stated dacs sound different. For instance take RME ADI 2 vs Halo May or Rokna Wavelight, are there actually difference in sound quality ? Because I am even happy with $300 dacs.


----------



## 04gto

Moose246 said:


> Not trying to start a firestorm here, as I know there are some mighty strong opinions on similar topics, but is anyone using any auxiliary components with their ADI-2?  I've read that an upgraded power supply isn't necessary given the ADI's is excellent, but yet many people seem to use various units (teddy pardo, sboosters, etc).  What about USB products, like UpTone ISO Regan or something as expensive as a Pink Faun USB Bridge?
> 
> My source is a desktop PC, which may be inferior to a streaming device, so just curious if there are benefits to be had.


I have posted this in the thread before. Makes for a very good read. I use a battery pack on mine for portability, not for sound improvements, as it does not effect the sound at all. 

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/07/measurements-switching-power-supplies.html


----------



## kazaakas

04gto said:


> Nice post. These findings are what will happen 99.9% of the time in blind listening tests. As long as you have a 'good' DAC they are going to sound the same. Once you reach 'good' then it is all about which DAC has the features you need. The RME ADI-2 DAC (and PRO) have reached 'good' (great really). Their feature set is what makes them the very best DACs available _to me. _
> 
> Once you have reached 'good'. All of these "hi-end" or "TOTL" DACs will sound EXACTLY the same in blind testing. The differences in these DACs are barely measurable and not audible. Even with different power supplies. In a double BLIND test, they are all 'the best'. Even professional audio engineers with decades of experience and trained ears can not RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY tell the difference. Then if some can get lucky and say 'this one is different' it is usually because the DAC filters are a little different and this will effect the treble volume perception very slightly (1-2 db). Then on the next blind test, with the same conditions, they will have a different result. Why? Because they basically all sound the same. Spend your money on headphones (or speakers) and amplifiers not DACs, unless you need certain features in the DAC.
> 
> If you are someone who claims you can tell the difference? Double blind test or it did not happen. Signed- Not an audiophile.


Nice write up! This is why I went with the RME ADI-2. I wanted a really good DAC that would be good enough for pretty much everything, and having a parametric EQ at the DAC level as well makes it just an unbeatable package.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

kazaakas said:


> This is why I went with the RME ADI-2. I wanted a really good DAC that would be good enough for pretty much everything, and having a parametric EQ at the DAC level as well makes it just an unbeatable package.


Yep, over 300 pages and everybody who bought it has the same opinion 

Not unbeatable, but certainly unbeatable at the price.


----------



## TK33

Moose246 said:


> Not trying to start a firestorm here, as I know there are some mighty strong opinions on similar topics, but is anyone using any auxiliary components with their ADI-2?  I've read that an upgraded power supply isn't necessary given the ADI's is excellent, but yet many people seem to use various units (teddy pardo, sboosters, etc).  What about USB products, like UpTone ISO Regan or something as expensive as a Pink Faun USB Bridge?
> 
> My source is a desktop PC, which may be inferior to a streaming device, so just curious if there are benefits to be had.


I use an IFI iPower X 12v mainly because it helps keep my cables neat (didn't want another box lying around on the floor) and it works well with my standing desk.  No audible difference that I noticed vs. stock power supply but I like the way it looks and fits better in my setup. If you're looking for audible improvements by upgrading power then, in my opinion, save your money. I have no regrets getting the iPower X but I also was not expecting to be able to hear a difference.

I rarely use USB to the ADI-2 since I mainly stream from a Node 2i and can't comment on those products you listed.  I did try an IFI iPurifier3 due to some noise I was hearing but didn't hear a difference either.  Turned out the noise was actually interference from my Linksys Velop wifi router that my IEMs were picking up.  Moving the ADI-2 and router farther apart did make an audible difference by eliminating that noise.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

04gto said:


> Nice post. These findings are what will happen 99.9% of the time in blind listening tests. As long as you have a 'good' DAC they are going to sound the same. Once you reach 'good' then it is all about which DAC has the features you need. The RME ADI-2 DAC (and PRO) have reached 'good' (great really). Their feature set is what makes them the very best DACs available _to me. _
> 
> Once you have reached 'good'. All of these "hi-end" or "TOTL" DACs will sound EXACTLY the same in blind testing. The differences in these DACs are barely measurable and not audible. Even with different power supplies. In a double BLIND test, they are all 'the best'. Even professional audio engineers with decades of experience and trained ears can not RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY tell the difference. Then if some can get lucky and say 'this one is different' it is usually because the DAC filters are a little different and this will effect the treble volume perception very slightly (1-2 db). Then on the next blind test, with the same conditions, they will have a different result. Why? Because they basically all sound the same. Spend your money on headphones (or speakers) and amplifiers not DACs, unless you need certain features in the DAC.
> 
> If you are someone who claims you can tell the difference? Double blind test or it did not happen. Signed- Not an audiophile.



I respectfully disagree because I was able to easily hear the difference between various DACs, especially when moving to the Chord ones. But there is room for all experiences and opinions. Fully agree that other components of the system are often more important.

Question - How come in your signature you have this: "RME ADI-2 DAC FS (V2 AKM4493)". Do you think there's a difference between Sabre and AKM chips?


----------



## 04gto

CaptainFantastic said:


> I respectfully disagree because I was able to easily hear the difference between various DACs, especially when moving to the Chord ones. But there is room for all experiences and opinions. Fully agree that other components of the system are often more important.
> 
> Question - How come in your signature you have this: "RME ADI-2 DAC FS (V2 AKM4493)". Do you think there's a difference between Sabre and AKM chips?


I respectfully disagree. From my post above: _If you are someone who claims you can tell the difference? Double blind test or it did not happen. _

RE your question about my signature- Answer- I have owned both. This is just accurate information. Probably RME should have named the ESS version V3. that would be easier.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

04gto said:


> I respectfully disagree. From my post above: _If you are someone who claims you can tell the difference? Double blind test or it did not happen. _
> 
> RE your question about my signature- Answer- I have owned both. This is just accurate information. Probably RME should have named the ESS version V3. that would be easier.



I did the blind tests as follows in September last year = RME ADI-2 vs Chord Hugo 2, RME ADI-2 vs Chord Hugo TT2, and Chord Hugo 2 vs Chord Hugo TT2. I could tell the difference in each case. I will say that the way I did it was with specific tracks I had chosen for sound tests. But the overall sound signature was clearly identifiable as well. I should redo it with random tracks, but it's not so easy because I am not perfectly setup for it. I need a second person to switch DACs while I step out of the room, etc.

Now, I will say also that I understand your point of view perfectly. I owned the M Scaler and I will confess that in blind tests I did not hear the difference at all. I had to focus on very particular passages in specific tracks to hear the difference and it was subtle, whereas others claim that there is an obvious improvement when the M Scaler is enabled.

So we all hear differently I guess.


----------



## betula

04gto said:


> I respectfully disagree. From my post above: _If you are someone who claims you can tell the difference? Double blind test or it did not happen. _
> 
> RE your question about my signature- Answer- I have owned both. This is just accurate information. Probably RME should have named the ESS version V3. that would be easier.


I do not think you need exceptional ears to hear the difference between a Chord TT2 and the ADI2 for example. But this DAC debate is just one of those eternal ones on Head-Fi that won't lead anywhere, so I leave it at that.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

04gto said:


> I respectfully disagree. From my post above: _If you are someone who claims you can tell the difference? Double blind test or it did not happen. _


I hear differences in all my DACs. You don't need a double blind test because everybody hears what he hears.


----------



## Moose246 (Jan 27, 2022)

Not to bring this back to my initial question, but I'm less interested whether there are discernable differences between DACs (I have to believe so), but rather how much sound improvement is contributed by the sea of other components.  Cables, current "cleaners" (power and USB), etc.  Much like DAC's where there's probably a diminishing return to cost ratio (ie spend 10x as much to get to 99% as needed to get to 90%), but I also have to believe that the cost floor would be much less to get to near perfection.  Reading reviews and "comparisons" the reviewers make it seem as though there are such drastic differences....I'm not saying I'm not a believer that higher quality items (component/build/etc) can't be differentiating, and I'll gladly spend more if it's actually the case, but the scale at which people make the changes out to be is surprising to me.

For my own system I'm using a Audioquest Cinnamon USB from my desktop to the ADI-2.  Not your Amazon Basics cable, but not anywhere near the top of the cable heap.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 31, 2022)

Moose246 said:


> Not to bring this back to my initial question, but I'm less interested whether there are discernable differences between DACs (I have to believe so), but rather how much sound improvement is contributed by the sea of other components.  Cables, current "cleaners" (power and USB), etc.


Cables don't change the sound unless they're defective. Power cleaners can work if you have noisy power. DDC is a good idea if you use a PC as a source, and even if you don't hear a difference, they offer better connectivity and protocols designed for audio. You can't run AES/EBU off a PC but you can from a DDC. So depending on your system these can be really good additions. I have a reclocker but I didn't buy it believing it would improve the sound. I bought it for the connectivity. But I'll be dipped, it does add some clarity and air despite my aversion to belief in snake oil. Good clocks are vital to digital audio.



Moose246 said:


> Much like DAC's where there's probably a diminishing return to cost ratio (ie spend 10x as much to get to 99% as needed to get to 90%), but I also have to believe that the cost floor would be much less to get to near perfection.  Reading reviews and "comparisons" the reviewers make it seem as though there are such drastic differences....I'm not saying I'm not a believer that higher quality items (component/build/etc) can't be differentiating, and I'll gladly spend more if it's actually the case, but the scale at which people make the changes out to be is surprising to me.


The RME is a really musical DAC with no defects in sound quality. There is no reason to feel you have to upgrade, let your ears and budget decide.

There are things I don't like about the RME having nothing to do with sound. For example I like MQA so I have some MQA DACs. I hate wallwarts, they're a really good source of noise, almost all my gear uses IEEE standard A/C input. I have gear that needs AES/EBU to get the best quality (has no USB input) but the RME nonpro doesn't have AES/EBU out. The RME doesn't have clock in. Etc. And the RME is very light so other than changing the volume, you have to use two hands. It does not stay in place on my desk. Until you start listening to it and using it, you would have no idea how good it is.



Moose246 said:


> For my own system I'm using a Audioquest Cinnamon USB from my desktop to the ADI-2.  Not your Amazon Basics cable, but not anywhere near the top of the cable heap.


USB cables don't make much difference. Analog cables can be worth it based on construction quality and materials and maybe even appearance, but unless there's electrical noise it doesn't make sense to me to spend on cables. I make my own from good cable stock and connectors and that's enough for me.

Nobody can decide any of this for you, nobody hears the same or wants exactly the same setup.


----------



## Moose246

gimmeheadroom said:


> Cables don't change the sound unless they're defective. Power cleaners can work if you have noisy power. DDC is a good idea if you use a PC as a source, and even if you don't hear a difference, they offer better connectivity and protocols designed for audio. You can't run AES/EBU off a PC but you can from a DDC. So depending on your system these can be really good additions. I have a reclocker but I didn't buy it believing it would improve the sound. I bought it for the connectivity. But I'll be dipped, it does add some clarity and air despite my aversion to belief in snake oil. Good clocks are vital to digital audio.
> 
> 
> The RME is a really musical DAC with no defects in sound quality. There is no reason to feel you have to upgrade, let your ears and budget decide.
> ...


Thanks for the insight.  Wasn't looking for a decision to be made on my behalf, just curious about others experiences with the ADI-2 specifically, since often it seems as though impact may be DAC specific.  

From your experience, sounds like a reclocker would be the only consideration.

I agree that by all accounts the DAC sounds great without anything else fancy - and why I find it so hard to comprehend significant, discernible improvements with swaps in the chain.


----------



## jjss

//6. Power Supply
In order to make operating the ADI-2 Pro as flexible as possible, the unit has a universal DC input socket, accepting voltages from 9.5 Volts up to 15 Volts. An internal switching regulator of the latest technology with high efficiency (> 90%) prevents internal hum noise by operating above audible frequencies. Internally the switching regulator is followed by standard linear regulators, followed by super low-noise linear regulators. Therefore the ADI-2 Pro achieves its technical specs even with less optimal power supplies. Or in other words: the choice of power supply is not critical.
Still the unit includes a high-quality switching power supply, 12 V / 2 A, which not only accepts any mains voltage between 100 V and 240 V (usable world-wide), but is also fully regulated against voltage fluctuations and suppresses line noise. Additionally it only weights 150 g in spite of its high power of 24 Watts.
The DC input of the ADI-2 Pro also allows for the use of a rechargeable lead-battery or LiPo instead of a power supply, for completely independent mobile operation and ground isolation. A matching connection cable (power jack 5.5 x 2.1 mm to terminals 6.3 mm) should be available from various sources. Special power banks in the range of 10,000 mAh and up can be found equipped with a 12 V output. These offer a perfect solution for mobility as well as ground isolated operation, for small money.//

Above is direct extract from latest ADI-2 Pro manual, and clearly states that the *choice of power supply is not critical.* So I would imagine that unless there's unstable / very dirty power supply in your area, the unit works just perfect with no external LPS, conditioners added on ..


----------



## Andrew Sedgwick

Sorry dumb question - just got my ADI-2 DAC yesterday and playing with the EQ feature. I have manually input a couple EQs (which seem good) - how do I save these to the presets ?  At the moment they sit in the Manual & Temp settings in EQ. I want to save them to preset (1-20) but cannot work out how at the moment. Any help would be much appreciated


----------



## Tano (Jan 28, 2022)

Andrew Sedgwick said:


> Sorry dumb question - just got my ADI-2 DAC yesterday and playing with the EQ feature. I have manually input a couple EQs (which seem good) - how do I save these to the presets ?  At the moment they sit in the Manual & Temp settings in EQ. I want to save them to preset (1-20) but cannot work out how at the moment. Any help would be much appreciated


Go to the EQ menu (press EQ button), name the EQ and press button 2 a few seconds until it saves it.
If you still don't get it, take a look at this video


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Moose246 said:


> Thanks for the insight.  Wasn't looking for a decision to be made on my behalf, just curious about others experiences with the ADI-2 specifically, since often it seems as though impact may be DAC specific.
> 
> From your experience, sounds like a reclocker would be the only consideration.


There are advantages to a DDC even without reclocking. I would say if you're happy with the sound, and most of us are, you're done. I don't have anything ahead of my RME, I just run it over USB. If you feel there is noise coming from your USB connection, next step is to try to narrow that down. If you want other connectivity, you could run a DDC off the USB and that is likely to eliminate all possible noise from the USB source. If you feel the sound isn't as clear as you would like then you could look into a reclocker.


Moose246 said:


> I agree that by all accounts the DAC sounds great without anything else fancy - and why I find it so hard to comprehend significant, discernible improvements with swaps in the chain


I think there not significant changes possible with this DAC, but I believe there are discernible ones. And given how good the RME is from end to end, incremental improvements are likely to cost a lot of money and not be a good return on investment in most cases.


----------



## Andrew Sedgwick

Tano said:


> Go to the EQ menu (press EQ button), name the EQ and press button 2 a few seconds until it saves it.
> If you still don't get it, take a look at this video



I was pressing button 1 rather button 2 to save it 🙃- all good now - many thanks for your help.


----------



## arielext

kazaakas said:


> Oh folks, I got a post for y'all that is just great fun. On a Polish forum, a guy A/B tested the RME ADI-2 vs a dCS Debussy, which is a >$10k DAC, and was not able to discern them. Here is the translation: https://www-audiostereo-pl.translat..._x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp#comment-5101836







such a "message" means I don't even bother to read the "news" anymore. Block my content please, no harm is done.
I opened the devtools and removed the popup from the DOM and removed the overflow:hidden CSS rule




and I read nothing new...


----------



## galveston22

Sold my RME.  Great sound and stellar headphone amp built in but the interface was not intuitive and ultimately troublesome.


----------



## Another Audiophile

Question for anyone who might be able to help. Is it OK if I connect from the RCA a headphone amplifier and then use the amplifier's pass through to connect a second headphone amplifier? Will be using one or the other and that just to avoid swapping cables.


----------



## NickT23

galveston22 said:


> Sold my RME.  Great sound and stellar headphone amp built in but the interface was not intuitive and ultimately troublesome.


What are you getting instead ? You could have just use it as an amp/dac and fancy screen look. Thats all.


----------



## dangusyra

galveston22 said:


> Sold my RME.  Great sound and stellar headphone amp built in but the interface was not intuitive and ultimately troublesome.


I agree that the user interface takes some getting used to. However, once you have made a change to the settings (if necessary), you usually don't have to go back there again


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Another Audiophile said:


> Question for anyone who might be able to help. Is it OK if I connect from the RCA a headphone amplifier and then use the amplifier's pass through to connect a second headphone amplifier? Will be using one or the other and that just to avoid swapping cables.


It is probably better to use the outputs (RCA or XLR, whatever your headamp can use as input) and set those to fixed output.

That way, when you plug headphones into your RME, the fixed output is muted, no signal is sent to the amp. When headphones are not plugged in, the output is sent to the amp.

In fact, this is the way a lot of us use the RME. For headphones that I like out of the RME (Fostex, HD 25, LCD-2C) I use the headphone jack. For headphones that are harder to drive, I use a separate headamp. I never have to change cables


----------



## Another Audiophile

gimmeheadroom said:


> It is probably better to use the outputs (RCA or XLR, whatever your headamp can use as input) and set those to fixed output.
> 
> That way, when you plug headphones into your RME, the fixed output is muted, no signal is sent to the amp. When headphones are not plugged in, the output is sent to the amp.
> 
> In fact, this is the way a lot of us use the RME. For headphones that I like out of the RME (Fostex, HD 25, LCD-2C) I use the headphone jack. For headphones that are harder to drive, I use a separate headamp. I never have to change cables


Thanks but my question was more if I can use two amps in series configuration. RME RCA out to TXHAAA 789 and from the thx’s pass through to another amplifier.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Another Audiophile said:


> Thanks but my question was more if I can use two amps in series configuration. RME RCA out to TXHAAA 789 and from the thx’s pass through to another amplifier.


I think what I said applies but in that case you pass the THX amp's line outs to another amp.


----------



## 04gto

Another Audiophile said:


> Thanks but my question was more if I can use two amps in series configuration. RME RCA out to TXHAAA 789 and from the thx’s pass through to another amplifier.


Yes. You can do this. There is a VERY small voltage/ current drop from component to component, but nothing drastic or audible. I ran my RME ADI-2 V1 to my JDS Labs Element II rca passed through to my Ampsandsound Leeloo/Pendant. Flawless. Thank also had it running through my THX 789 to the Leeloo/Pendant for a while as well. Again, no ill effects.


----------



## 486892

Another Audiophile said:


> Thanks but my question was more if I can use two amps in series configuration. RME RCA out to TXHAAA 789 and from the thx’s pass through to another amplifier.


Try RME as a preamp from headphone out. I find that better than RCA, which I used earlier. I have tried a second separated amp as well, but preferred just RME+RNHP. The output is clinical clean with those two devices, so I do add some harmonic distortion to signal before final output.


----------



## Audiophile PT (Feb 5, 2022)

My configuration allows me to use 4 types of different phones-connection according to my taste (and or phones signature):
RME --> xDuoo TA-20 (XLR connectors) - (phones connected to xDuuo);
RME --> Violectric DHA-V226 (RCA connectors) - (phones connected to Violectric)
I can also use phones connected to RME (usb from iMac), or phones connected to Violectric (usb from iMac).


----------



## jjss (Feb 6, 2022)

https://www.hifizine.com/2018/07/rme-adi-2-pro-technical-overview/

https://www.hifizine.com/2018/07/rme-adi-2-pro-technical-overview/

Although this is on ADI2 Pro but gives insight to the internal architecture of Dac too.
https://www.hifizine.com/2019/01/rme-adi-2-pro-operational-modes/


----------



## gimmeheadroom

jjss said:


> https://www.hifizine.com/2018/07/rme-adi-2-pro-technical-overview/
> 
> https://www.hifizine.com/2018/07/rme-adi-2-pro-technical-overview/
> 
> ...


Thanks for the links. The two first links are the same though.


----------



## Tennessee

Guys I need help because I’m apparently too dumb for that:
I want to use dual eq, I activate it in options (dual eq on), I go to EQ menu and I change EQ on main output L channel and it always do the same change to R channel and vice versa, they are *always linked*, my changes are always mirrored to the other channel, what I’m doing wrong?!


----------



## CaptainFantastic

I noticed about a week ago that the RME ADI-2 DAC FS went up in price from around 940€ to 1089€ on Thomann. I guess it's the trend and makes sense with the recent inflation and supply chain issues. Chord also increased prices recently.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> I noticed about a week ago that the RME ADI-2 DAC FS went up in price from around 940€ to 1089€ on Thomann. I guess it's the trend and makes sense with the recent inflation and supply chain issues. Chord also increased prices recently.


I don't know if the ESS chips are more expensive than the AKM but certainly now that AKM 4493 is becoming (has become?) unobtanium, more demand for ESS 

I just beat the price increase on Phonitor, they also raised prices across the line from what I can see.


----------



## Quinto

Tennessee said:


> Guys I need help because I’m apparently too dumb for that:
> I want to use dual eq, I activate it in options (dual eq on), I go to EQ menu and I change EQ on main output L channel and it always do the same change to R channel and vice versa, they are *always linked*, my changes are always mirrored to the other channel, what I’m doing wrong?!


Maybe this is helpful, start at 02:23


----------



## miuywu

Having run the ADI-2 DAC vs burson conductor 3 reference through an XI audio broadway, and gs-x mini, I prefer the RME to the burson. Burson has better stage and slightly smoother highs. I prefer the more detailed although sometimes less nice sounding highs of the RME. It feels more interesting to me.

RME > more features, runs cool / lukewarm, EQ, better user experience and remote, more detail but sharper 
Burson > way more powerful headamp and dac signal, runs very hot, smaller than av-box but uncomfortable on desk, better stage, smoother highs


----------



## Phoniac

Tennessee said:


> Guys I need help because I’m apparently too dumb for that:
> I want to use dual eq, I activate it in options (dual eq on), I go to EQ menu and I change EQ on main output L channel and it always do the same change to R channel and vice versa, they are *always linked*, my changes are always mirrored to the other channel, what I’m doing wrong?!


Check again. You must have enabled Dual EQ for a different output than main.


----------



## ST33L

I need to get one of these… the EQ is the most intriguing. Too bad more DAC/AMP don’t have this feature.


----------



## Tennessee

Phoniac said:


> Check again. You must have enabled Dual EQ for a different output than main.





Quinto said:


> Maybe this is helpful, start at 02:23



It’s working like that (and how it suppose to) on my ADI 2 DAC, but not on my ADI 2 PRO, see my video:


Phoniac said:


> Check again. You must have enabled Dual EQ for a different output than main.


I’m on the correct output:


----------



## Phoniac

What you see is a graphical refresh bug. Selecting R still L is shown. Simply go one further to Phones Out and back to EQ R - correct curve is shown. Same trick works for EQ L: go one further to Analog Input and back to EQ L. Will report this to RME.


----------



## ST33L

I’ve read that many are adding an amp to this unit to improve performance. I’ve conducted a brief search and could not find the power/watts specs. Anybody have this info? Thanks


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Depends on your headphones. There are many it drives well (Fostex, LCD-2C) and many it does not drive that well (300 ohm Sennheisers). You could ask for the specs on the RME forum but I doubt it would end well. So, let your ears and wallet be the judge.


----------



## dougq (Feb 21, 2022)

ST33L said:


> I’ve read that many are adding an amp to this unit to improve performance. I’ve conducted a brief search and could not find the power/watts specs. Anybody have this info? Thanks


They have posted a video on this on their twitter channel.  You would have to use an outlier of a headphone that couldn't be powered by it.  It's driven my Arya / HD8XX / HD800 without even needing to go to high power.  I've compared against more 'powerful' external amps and could not hear a difference.  Thus it's the only box on my desk that I need for now.

ADI-2 Series - Extreme Headphone Outputs Explained - YouTube


----------



## technobear

ST33L said:


> I’ve read that many are adding an amp to this unit to improve performance. I’ve conducted a brief search and could not find the power/watts specs. Anybody have this info? Thanks


https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html


----------



## ST33L

dougq said:


> They have posted a video on this on their twitter channel.  You would have to use an outlier of a headphone that couldn't be powered by it.  It's driven my Arya / HD8XX / HD800 without even needing to go to high power.  I've compared against more 'powerful' external amps and could not hear a difference.  Thus it's the only box on my desk that I need for now.
> 
> ADI-2 Series - Extreme Headphone Outputs Explained - YouTube





technobear said:


> https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html



Thank you!


----------



## skhan007

dougq said:


> They have posted a video on this on their twitter channel.  You would have to use an outlier of a headphone that couldn't be powered by it.  It's driven my Arya / HD8XX / HD800 without even needing to go to high power.  I've compared against more 'powerful' external amps and could not hear a difference.  Thus it's the only box on my desk that I need for now.
> 
> ADI-2 Series - Extreme Headphone Outputs Explained - YouTube


This has been my experience as well.


----------



## free0704

Hey! With RME ADI-2 DAC drivers is it possible to adjust volume in windows 10 mixer? It's important for me.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

free0704 said:


> Hey! With RME ADI-2 DAC drivers is it possible to adjust volume in windows 10 mixer? It's important for me.


Using Windows mixer is bad for sound quality. You can certainly do it, don't install the RME ASIO driver package.


----------



## free0704

gimmeheadroom said:


> Using Windows mixer is bad for sound quality. You can certainly do it, don't install the RME ASIO driver package.


when listening to music, the volume is at 100%, but when watching movies or youtube, I wanted to be able to reduce the volume in the mixer.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

free0704 said:


> when listening to music, the volume is at 100%, but when watching movies or youtube, I wanted to be able to reduce the volume in the mixer.


Any time you use Windows to control the volume, you're losing the benefit of the RME sound quality. Even at 100%


----------



## Tano

free0704 said:


> when listening to music, the volume is at 100%, but when watching movies or youtube, I wanted to be able to reduce the volume in the mixer.


I would sugest you to use the RME remote for that.


----------



## 486892

gimmeheadroom said:


> Any time you use Windows to control the volume, you're losing the benefit of the RME sound quality. Even at 100%


Can you explain more in detail?

I mean that when you start RME, Windows will automatically select that device your main and volume of course has to be 100%, because when mixing/mastering a track you will now see your headroom/peak level on RME. 

Or, when playing mastered track the peak should reach normally -0,1dB , which is the usual ceiling limit setting for final limiters. 

From your DAW you of course select RME, but again Windows volume has to stay on 100%. From RME you can control the volume/headroom if there is a need to lower it down. 

I would keep Windows 100% and RME on 0dB for those who produce music or having more devices on the chain, like amps, saturators, recorders etc. For output you need an another peak analyzer, like recorders usually have if RME is not your only device in your chain. 

Using RME as a headphone DAC/amp only I would control the input volume from Windows as well, like with other DACs, DF, Chord etc.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

You should bypass Windows mixer completely by using ASIO drivers in exclusive mode. Then Windows volume will not be able to be changed. If you can change the volume with Windows, it is proof your system is not bit perfect. You should control volume at the DAC. If you use an amp with your DAC you should set the DAC also at 0 dB and control volume at the amp.


----------



## free0704

my question is, is there an option to lower the volume in the mixer if i'm not listening to music at the moment and don't want to reach for the dac. Or the volume control is locked. Thanks!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Yes, if you don't use ASIO or WASAPI drivers, you can use volume control on the DAC or Windows.

But as @Tano pointed out, you can also control volume with the remote control that comes with the DAC


----------



## CKJvguA

ST33L said:


> I’ve read that many are adding an amp to this unit to improve performance. I’ve conducted a brief search and could not find the power/watts specs. Anybody have this info? Thanks


I use a Topping A30 Pro w/ the RME ADI-2 FS and it adds a LOT of clean power... enough for most (all?) headphones.


----------



## 486892

gimmeheadroom said:


> You should bypass Windows mixer completely by using ASIO drivers in exclusive mode. Then Windows volume will not be able to be changed. If you can change the volume with Windows, it is proof your system is not bit perfect. You should control volume at the DAC. If you use an amp with your DAC you should set the DAC also at 0 dB and control volume at the amp.


Okay, thanks for your valuable input, I'll look into my settings. I have ASIO drivers installed, but from DAW I don't hear or see from a recorded file any difference if either ASIO or RME are selected as an analog output. How large the difference should be?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

UtaA said:


> Okay, thanks for your valuable input, I'll look into my settings. I have ASIO drivers installed, but from DAW I don't hear or see from a recorded file any difference if either ASIO or RME are selected as an analog output. How large the difference should be?


If you're using a DAW and doing music production, I guess you understand the importance of bit-perfect audio.


----------



## 486892

gimmeheadroom said:


> If you're using a DAW and doing music production, I guess you understand the importance of bit-perfect audio.


Are you be able to produce music higher than 24bit/96kHz? It's a very rare case. Usually your DAW start rattling after 48kHz, with some 2k€ level computer, especially when having lets say 30+ individual tracks in your mixer. I mean when mixing with a DAW, but I got interested by your comment, because I cant hear a large difference between 96kHz to 192kHz.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

UtaA said:


> Are you be able to produce music higher than 24bit/96kHz? It's a very rare case. Usually your DAW start rattling after 48kHz, with some 2k€ level computer, especially when having lets say 30+ individual tracks in your mixer. I mean when mixing with a DAW, but I got interested by your comment, because I cant hear a large difference between 96kHz to 192kHz.


I think it is not about bit depth or sample rate as much as a quality issue of not losing any signal data. If you want the best results your gear can provide, why allow Windows to interfere with the bitstream? Windows will resample and do other processing which is really not good. ASIO was designed for exactly this reason by people in the audio production business, to bypass Windows audio and insure a bitperfect path. To me it is almost the only valid reason for Windows


----------



## 486892

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think it is not about bit depth or sample rate as much as a quality issue of not losing any signal data. If you want the best results your gear can provide, why allow Windows to interfere with the bitstream? Windows will resample and do other processing which is really not good. ASIO was designed for exactly this reason by people in the audio production business, to bypass Windows audio and insure a bitperfect path. To me it is almost the only valid reason for Windows


ASIO for sure. From your DAW you can select 3 different type of ASIO drivers: ASIO4all, DAWs native ASIO drivers or your audio interfaces native ASIO drivers, which in this case is RME ASIO. 

When you have installed your devices native ASIO drivers or DAWs ASIO drivers, you won't need ASIO4all, when you can select your output as your device from Windows or from your DAW. Still, you will be able to control that volume with Windows par. It will not run your sound through your other audio interface if RME is selected as your output, or do I miss something? 

What you mean by Windows will weaken your sound? Your audio will be controlled by your audio interface if it is selected as your output and you have installed its drivers.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

UtaA said:


> ASIO for sure. From your DAW you can select 3 different type of ASIO drivers: ASIO4all, DAWs native ASIO drivers or your audio interfaces native ASIO drivers, which in this case is RME ASIO.
> 
> When you have installed your devices native ASIO drivers or DAWs ASIO drivers, you won't need ASIO4all, when you can select your output as your device from Windows or from your DAW. Still, you will be able to control that volume with Windows par. It will not run your sound through your other audio interface if RME is selected as your output, or do I miss something?
> 
> What you mean by Windows will weaken your sound? Your audio will be controlled by your audio interface if it is selected as your output and you have installed its drivers.


The original question was if you can use Windows volume control. If you use ASIO, you can't.


----------



## betula

CaptainFantastic said:


> I noticed about a week ago that the RME ADI-2 DAC FS went up in price from around 940€ to 1089€ on Thomann. I guess it's the trend and makes sense with the recent inflation and supply chain issues. Chord also increased prices recently.


Price increases are shocking. Not just in audio where many well established brands introduced a 5%-15% increase, but in general life as well (energy bills, food). 
At the same time second-hand audio prices apparently dropped by 25% percent compared to 6 months ago. It is a lot harder to sell anything on the second-hand market. Many headphones tend to go at half price which was not the trend 1-2 years ago.


gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't know if the ESS chips are more expensive than the AKM but certainly now that AKM 4493 is becoming (has become?) unobtanium, more demand for ESS
> 
> I just beat the price increase on Phonitor, they also raised prices across the line from what I can see.


I do not think the RME price increase has anything to do with ESS chips. Apparently AKM is back to normal capacity as well, with some slightly improved new chips (AK4493S & AK4493R). It must be general supply chain issues, increased cost of materials, shipping prices, other factors.


----------



## 486892

gimmeheadroom said:


> The original question was if you can use Windows volume control. If you use ASIO, you can't.


True, and my reply was that you can, depending on your type of ASIO driver, but if you can, the 100% will be your 0dBf.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

UtaA said:


> True, and my reply was that you can, depending on your type of ASIO driver, but if you can, the 100% will be your 0dBf.


You cannot, because ASIO requires exclusive mode, and bypasses all Windows controls including volume, resampling etc.


----------



## Phoniac

Phoniac said:


> What you see is a graphical refresh bug. Selecting R still L is shown. Simply go one further to Phones Out and back to EQ R - correct curve is shown. Same trick works for EQ L: go one further to Analog Input and back to EQ L. Will report this to RME.


RME came back to me, confirmed the glitch, and said it will be fixed in their next firmware update.


----------



## 486892

gimmeheadroom said:


> You cannot, because ASIO requires exclusive mode, and bypasses all Windows controls including volume, resampling etc.


Its not always the case, but lowering Windows volume from 100% will reduce quality. 100% should be bit perfect.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

UtaA said:


> Its not always the case, but lowering Windows volume from 100% will reduce quality. 100% should be bit perfect.


If you use ASIO drivers, you will not be able to adjust volume in Windows


----------



## 486892

gimmeheadroom said:


> If you use ASIO drivers, you will not be able to adjust volume in Windows


My language is not native English, so maybe this helps better;

''Many ASIO-enabled devices also have the option to take their input from the standard Windows sound subsystem, albeit with higher latency, but no less sound quality. The main point of ASIO was to provide a very low-latency path to the audio hardware to permit live sound recording and simultaneous playback with minimal delay offset, so as to keep tracks well time-aligned for multitrack studio recording applications.''
_Andrew Silverman, 
Principal PM, Azure AI/Advaced Architecture at Microsoft (1991-present)_


----------



## gimmeheadroom

UtaA said:


> My language is not native English, so maybe this helps better;
> 
> ''Many ASIO-enabled devices also have the option to take their input from the standard Windows sound subsystem, albeit with higher latency, but no less sound quality. The main point of ASIO was to provide a very low-latency path to the audio hardware to permit live sound recording and simultaneous playback with minimal delay offset, so as to keep tracks well time-aligned for multitrack studio recording applications.''
> _Andrew Silverman,
> Principal PM, Azure AI/Advaced Architecture at Microsoft (1991-present)_


The whole point of ASIO is not to trust Microsoft 

Anyway, this is marketing-speak. I could understand it as saying "even though a device supports ASIO, it could also run off our half-assed, third rate entertainment platform."


----------



## 486892

gimmeheadroom said:


> The whole point of ASIO is not to trust Microsoft
> 
> Anyway, this is marketing-speak. I could understand it as saying "even though a device supports ASIO, it could also run off our half-assed, third rate entertainment platform."


Or is it so called Multi-Client ASIO feature hes referring?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I don't know, and I lost interest in anything Microshaft has to say


----------



## 486892

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't know, and I lost interest in anything Microshaft has to say


Okay, thanks for your time with me though, cheers : )


----------



## gimmeheadroom




----------



## ST33L

Does this thing every go on sale. It’s been $1,299 everywhere for a while… $5…$10…$20 off? Something to justify me buying it


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ST33L said:


> Does this thing every go on sale. It’s been $1,299 everywhere for a while… $5…$10…$20 off? Something to justify me buying it


Just buy it. You'll give yourself justification after you hear it


----------



## ST33L

^^^ How do you know what chip it has… based on the ser#? I’ve read that some have the AKM and others have the ESS(Sabre). It seem that most prefer the AKM, however, RME states that they’re very similar. Thoughts?


----------



## dougq

ST33L said:


> ^^^ How do you know what chip it has… based on the ser#? I’ve read that some have the AKM and others have the ESS(Sabre). It seem that most prefer the AKM, however, RME states that they’re very similar. Thoughts?


I have owned both, they sound 100% the same


----------



## Another Audiophile

dougq said:


> I have owned both, they sound 100% the same


one more vote on that, Zero difference


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ST33L said:


> ^^^ How do you know what chip it has… based on the ser#? I’ve read that some have the AKM and others have the ESS(Sabre). It seem that most prefer the AKM, however, RME states that they’re very similar. Thoughts?


Production switched to ESS a while ago (I think about 1 year or so). You could look on the RME forums to see if there is a way to know, I seem to remember a post with serial numbers but I may be hallucinating. Almost certainly you will get ESS if you buy a new one. Anyway, I think RME intends that the DAC will sound like they want regardless of chip.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

ESS serials end with C, AKM 4493 with B


----------



## ST33L

dougq said:


> I have owned both, they sound 100% the same





Another Audiophile said:


> one more vote on that, Zero difference





gimmeheadroom said:


> Production switched to ESS a while ago (I think about 1 year or so). You could look on the RME forums to see if there is a way to know, I seem to remember a post with serial numbers but I may be hallucinating. Almost certainly you will get ESS if you buy a new one. Anyway, I think RME intends that the DAC will sound like they want regardless of chip.





DuncanDirkDick said:


> ESS serials end with C, AKM 4493 with B


Thanks for the replies


----------



## Tennessee (Feb 28, 2022)

ESS doesn’t have SD LD filter.
And if Pro is based on AKM I definitely would prefer it.
My both ADIs are 4493. 

Anyway even if producer says you don’t need different PSU, I highly recommend trying one high-end linear PSU, it makes a difference…


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Tennessee said:


> ESS doesn’t have SD LD filter.
> And if Pro is based on AKM I definitely would prefer it.
> My both ADIs are 4493.
> 
> Anyway even if producer says you don’t need different PSU, I highly recommend trying one high-end linear PSU, it makes a difference…


Serious power cabinet! Danger, High Voltage! Authorized Personnel Only


----------



## flubje

I'm sure it's been said somewhere but to go through 325 pages would be more time than I have! 😅 On all the settings I'm interested how have people set there rme up?


----------



## 486892

flubje said:


> I'm sure it's been said somewhere but to go through 325 pages would be more time than I have! 😅 On all the settings I'm interested how have people set there rme up?


I use RME as a DAC and preamp, because I do like the amp part, but not as it is. So, my settings are 0dBf, SD Slow filter with value 1 crossfeed usually for headphones.

When I use it for mastering music I usually add some presence for 5k and remove some boxiness from 400-600Hz with EQ and take out the crossfeed. I prefer Slow filter beside SD Slow sometimes. And I usually record mixdown and master in 192kHz quality, using RME ASIO drivers. The DigiCheck is handy tool as well.


----------



## flubje

UtaA said:


> I use RME as a DAC and preamp, because I do like the amp part, but not as it is. So, my settings are 0dBf, SD Slow filter with value 1 crossfeed usually for headphones.
> 
> When I use it for mastering music I usually add some presence for 5k and remove some boxiness from 400-600Hz with EQ and take out the crossfeed. I prefer Slow filter beside SD Slow sometimes. And I usually record mixdown and master in 192kHz quality, using RME ASIO drivers. The DigiCheck is handy tool as well.


Appreciate that UtaA, it's interesting to see how others have there's setup, I'm still learning with it - especially the EQ side also only using it as a standalone DAC so might be a bit overkill as just a DAC....😅


----------



## 486892

flubje said:


> Appreciate that UtaA, it's interesting to see how others have there's setup, I'm still learning with it - especially the EQ side also only using it as a standalone DAC so might be a bit overkill as just a DAC....😅


No problem, RME brand was developed for producing music from beginning and they still are with ADI-DAC. I'v been a fan of RME over a decade and I used to have their FireFace's, but ADI-DAC is okay as well for having your master chain all analog.


----------



## flubje

UtaA said:


> No problem, RME brand was developed for producing music from beginning and they still are with ADI-DAC. I'v been a fan of RME over a decade and I used to have their FireFace's, but ADI-DAC is okay as well for having your master chain all analog.


The way you made that sound is almost like I'm worth selling it for a DAC only if it's more for mainly producing music....I was sold on the display haha


----------



## 486892

flubje said:


> The way you made that sound is almost like I'm worth selling it for a DAC only if it's more for mainly producing music....I was sold on the display haha


Not quite, many high-end audiophile people prefer ultra clean sound from DAC/amp to spice their signal themselves with other gear like tubes, saturators etc.. and to hear their headphones as they are. Its a hobby for sound lovers in the end. Sometimes you can find all in one gear, but no too often.

Producers for sure need a reference level honesty from sound to trust what they hear is true.


----------



## flubje

UtaA said:


> Not quite, many high-end audiophile people prefer ultra clean sound from DAC/amp to spice their signal themselves with other gear like tubes, saturators etc.. and to hear their headphones as they are. Its a hobby for sound lovers in the end. Sometimes you can find all in one gear, but no too often.
> 
> Producers for sure need a reference level honesty from sound to trust what they hear is true.


Yes I guess so Sir! 
I have had quite a few DACs now and for me this one seems to sound the best or have some good synergy going on with my setup...just have myself doubting if it's ONLY being used as a DAC that it's overkill


----------



## 486892

flubje said:


> Yes I guess so Sir!
> I have had quite a few DACs now and for me this one seems to sound the best or have some good synergy going on with my setup...just have myself doubting if it's ONLY being used as a DAC that it's overkill


As a DAC it is a best value you can get with that money, and I wouln't sell it for any prize. I used to run it DAC only, because something wasn't right with the amp, but with RNHP it sound better with its amp than from DAC only. I think its like you said, the synergy of your setup, so what sound right to your ears will work for you the best, Sir : )


----------



## Slaphead

flubje said:


> I'm sure it's been said somewhere but to go through 325 pages would be more time than I have! 😅 On all the settings I'm interested how have people set there rme up?


Straight out of the box - I've found no need to mess with anything, apart from the odd occasion where I've come across an "out of phase" video on youtube when I've used the phase function to bring the sound back into correct phase.


----------



## Tennessee (Mar 3, 2022)

UtaA said:


> I use RME as a DAC and preamp, because I do like the amp part, but not as it is. So, my settings are 0dBf, SD Slow filter with value 1 crossfeed usually for headphones.
> 
> When I use it for mastering music I usually add some presence for 5k and remove some boxiness from 400-600Hz with EQ and take out the crossfeed. I prefer Slow filter beside SD Slow sometimes. And I usually record mixdown and master in 192kHz quality, using RME ASIO drivers. The DigiCheck is handy tool as well.


SD slow sounds very good and along with slow has second, almost perfect impulse response, but the most perfect impulse response has NOS and it wins for me every time I’m testing them. I have big horn towers and NOS can PROPERLY hit with the bass in opposite to every other filter which have more rounded bass because of aliasing. The same goes for contours of voices or even acoustic instruments NOS doing it perfectly. Its biggest con is not deep and not too wide stage (at least it‘s high  ), but for me precision and good attack is everything. Even on my second system ATCs I’m running another RME with NOS and it can compete with DACs 5x the price. To counter treble drop I just upscale everything with software to 32bit 352.8/384kHz.


----------



## flubje

Slaphead said:


> Straight out of the box - I've found no need to mess with anything, apart from the odd occasion where I've come across an "out of phase" video on youtube when I've used the phase function to bring the sound back into correct phase.


I think I played around with the filters and that was about it can't remember what I left it on now - sounds good and I don't think I could hear much difference between them in my opinion! 



Tennessee said:


> SD slow sounds very good and along with slow has second, almost perfect impulse response, but the most perfect impulse response has NOS and it wins for me every time I’m testing them. I have big horn towers and NOS can PROPERLY hit with the bass in opposite to every other filter which have more rounded bass because of aliasing. The same goes for contours of voices or even acoustic instruments NOS doing it perfectly. Its biggest con is not deep and not too wide stage (at least it‘s high  ), but for me precision and good attack is everything. Even on my second system ATCs I’m running another RME with NOS and it can compete with DACs 5x the price. To counter treble drop I just upscale everything with software to 32bit 352.8/384kHz.


I might try giving NOS a go this weekend! 👍


----------



## Tennessee

SD LD has a lot of post ringing and through that nice echo effect, but that doesn’t always sounds right. 
SD sharp has the best airiness in trebles.
Sharp is overall the nicest sounding with big stage, but not much attack. If you aren’t looking for something special I would start with that. 
SD slow has the nicest mids and vocals, but it has shallow stage and rather roundy bass.
Slow has very round bass, average stage, but nice vocals and it can split the sound from speakers.


----------



## flubje

Tennessee said:


> SD LD has a lot of post ringing and through that nice echo effect, but that doesn’t always sounds right.
> SD sharp has the best airiness in trebles.
> Sharp is overall the nicest sounding with big stage, but not much attack. If you aren’t looking for something special I would start with that.
> SD slow has the nicest mids and vocals, but it has shallow stage and rather roundy bass.
> Slow has very round bass, average stage, but nice vocals and it can split the sound from speakers.


When you put it like that, makes it a hard choice........Sharp & SD Slow sound the best IMO !


----------



## Tennessee (Mar 3, 2022)

People usually saying that they hear no difference, because tonality does not change and that is what they expect.
Rather what changes is the presentation of the music. The easiest to spot differences is to start with good quality bassy song, play it louder and observe what is happening with the bass.
Then play vocals and observe how big or small the mids are getting and how precise or round they start sounding.
With trebles it is easy on bells or hi hats, their presentation changes and they will move on stage in depth, wide or height.


----------



## flubje

Tennessee said:


> People usually saying that they hear no difference, because tonality does not change and that is what they expect.
> Rather what changes is the presentation of the music. The easiest to spot differences is to start with good quality bassy song, play it louder and observe what is happening with the bass.
> Then play vocals and observe how big or small the mids are getting and how precise or round they start sounding.
> With trebles it is easy on bells or hi hats, their presentation changes and they will move on stage in depth, wide or high.


You have got to have a good set of ears on you to pick these things Tennessee 🤣........I think from my clubbing speaker hugging days and my Whamo Jamo's I use to have in my bedroom, clipping like nobody's business wernt to kind on my ears haha !


----------



## 486892 (Mar 3, 2022)

Yes, I agree @Tennessee, you can hear those filters as they sound for me also. I like Slow's, because of their focus on mid area the most. NOS is interesting one but it feels that it is lacking some space, being narrow, but I will experiment more with that after your recommendation for sure. The Sharp for me is too boring, lacking some life, not exited at all, a very safe choice.


----------



## flubje

Do you guys find it a bit weak as a headphone amp? Might anger some people with this comment 🙈


----------



## 486892

flubje said:


> Do you guys find it a bit weak as a headphone amp? Might anger some people with this comment 🙈


It' a very clean amping for sure, so you might get the feel of missing the 'soul'. I prefer to add own 'spices' anyway so it doesen't decrease that option at least.


----------



## flubje

UtaA said:


> It' a very clean amping for sure, so you might get the feel of missing the 'soul'. I prefer to add own 'spices' anyway so it doesen't decrease that option at least.


It is very clean. I just find it doesn't get very loud even in high power mode I think it's called. Doesn't have much juice in it


----------



## Tennessee

As a headphone amp it’s very boring, great DAC and good PRE.


----------



## dougq

flubje said:


> Do you guys find it a bit weak as a headphone amp? Might anger some people with this comment 🙈


No not at all.  It provides every bit of detail you can get.  And at default settings you are getting exactly what you should out of the source.  You can color it with EQ settings or change other things.  

It's got a substantial amount of power for an AIO.  I don't own a Susvara or any other outlier of headphone that may require something like that, but it has driven my ZMF headphones, and HD8XX headphones without even needing to go into  hi power. Same with the Arya's.  You will most likely get full dynamic range, with full detail, and ability to change the sound through the built in eq.


----------



## mugbot

What are you powering with it? It gets way too loud with my HD 650 and Aeon 2 Noire, and the latter are pretty demanding.


----------



## flubje

dougq said:


> No not at all.  It provides every bit of detail you can get.  And at default settings you are getting exactly what you should out of the source.  You can color it with EQ settings or change other things.
> 
> It's got a substantial amount of power for an AIO.  I don't own a Susvara or any other outlier of headphone that may require something like that, but it has driven my ZMF headphones, and HD8XX headphones without even needing to go into  hi power. Same with the Arya's.  You will most likely get full dynamic range, with full detail, and ability to change the sound through the built in eq.


Maybe this is the proof I need on just how deaf I am haha.....I have both the hd600 & hd650 and it just doesn't do anything for them for me.....even in high power mode theres just no boot


----------



## flubje

mugbot said:


> What are you powering with it? It gets way too loud with my HD 650 and Aeon 2 Noire, and the latter are pretty demanding.


I have both the 600 & 650 and for me there's just no boot 🙈


----------



## Tennessee

I don’t think I’ve ever reached -15 dB while listening XD


----------



## flubje

My ears are shot then!! 🤣


----------



## G8torbyte

mugbot said:


> What are you powering with it? It gets way too loud with my HD 650 and Aeon 2 Noire, and the latter are pretty demanding.


I've also noticed the Noire's need more of a push compared to other cans I use on balanced output.  It kind of surprised me since I figured DCA designed the Noire's more for portability.   I use the RME going to the THX-AAA 789 amp for the balanced output.


----------



## TK33

G8torbyte said:


> I've also noticed the Noire's need more of a push compared to other cans I use on balanced output.  It kind of surprised me since I figured DCA designed the Noire's more for portability.   I use the RME going to the THX-AAA 789 amp for the balanced output.


I've been happy with driving the Noire using the RME ADI-2 built-in headphone output.  Don't really feel the need for balanced or a separate amp with these and love the simplicity of the setup.  I think the RME has plenty of power for the Noire.  I usually listen at -50 - -55 db so plenty of headroom (currently at -52db).


----------



## G8torbyte

TK33 said:


> I've been happy with driving the Noire using the RME ADI-2 built-in headphone output.  Don't really feel the need for balanced or a separate amp with these and love the simplicity of the setup.  I think the RME has plenty of power for the Noire.  I usually listen at -50 - -55 db so plenty of headroom (currently at -52db).


I don't doubt RME is up to the task for healthy ears.  Tinnitus is catching up with my old ears.  My last audiogram upon leaving the military identified less sensitivity to high frequencies.
I have to bump up 15-20 db's on some recordings.  I'm glad the ADI-2 can adjust left and right output separately as well in case one ear gets worse before the other.


----------



## flubje

G8torbyte said:


> I don't doubt RME is up to the task for healthy ears.  Tinnitus is catching up with my old ears.  My last audiogram upon leaving the military identified less sensitivity to high frequencies.
> I have to bump up 15-20 db's on some recordings.  I'm glad the ADI-2 can adjust left and right output separately as well in case one ear gets worse before the other.


Glad I'm in a boat with someone else with shot ears 😅


----------



## RayMets1

Has anyone had a issue with their RME Adi-2, when streaming Qobuz after listening for a bit, I get some distortion and a slow down of the music. I stop music and retart it and it corrects itself. This only happens with Qobuz no matter what audio setting I use. Does not happen using Tidal or Amazon Music. Can someone help me please figure out how to fix?


----------



## Tennessee

Uninstall RME drivers in device manager and madiface software, restart PC, windows will automatically install USB audio 2.0 class driver, choose in qobuz adi 2 dac in wasapi exclusive mode, which is better than asio anyway, unless you are producing.


----------



## RayMets1

Tennessee said:


> Uninstall RME drivers in device manager and madiface software, restart PC, windows will automatically install USB audio 2.0 class driver, choose in qobuz adi 2 dac in wasapi exclusive mode, which is better than asio anyway, unless you are producing.


Thank you


----------



## flubje

Am I correct in saying windows will only allow 96kHz I have 4 DACS one being the RME and all only ever show 96kHz highest


----------



## RayMets1

I have the RME ADI-2 paired with a Topping A90, and do find the it give the music a bit more detail and does give me a slight punch to the bass, on my Focal Clear MG. 
Has anyone else tried pairing up a separate amp, and if so what was the result?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

flubje said:


> Am I correct in saying windows will only allow 96kHz I have 4 DACS one being the RME and all only ever show 96kHz highest


No. If you don't use the RME drivers then Windows will grab your audio and do whatever you told it to.

If you use the RME drivers and apps that speak ASIO or WASAPI (Wasapp, ASIO-bro?!) then it will work as designed.


----------



## Tennessee

ADI 2 DAC with Keces P8 mono PSU, also good pairing.


----------



## flubje

gimmeheadroom said:


> No. If you don't use the RME drivers then Windows will grab your audio and do whatever you told it to.
> 
> If you use the RME drivers and apps that speak ASIO or WASAPI (Wasapp, ASIO-bro?!) then it will work as designed.


I have all the drivers so for example I have the one for the RME, I set the rate to the highest all setting set correct in Tidal but never does it go above 96 not heard of ASIO or WASAPI


----------



## gimmeheadroom

flubje said:


> I have all the drivers so for example I have the one for the RME, I set the rate to the highest all setting set correct in Tidal but never does it go above 96 not heard of ASIO or WASAPI


Sorry, I can't understand what you're saying. Maybe post some screenshots.


----------



## Tennessee (Mar 7, 2022)

1. Tidal won't go over 96kHz with RME, because RME doesn't support (second) MQA unfolding.
2. Tidal on windows is broken with RME drivers and won't change sample rates, because Tidal app doesn't support 24 bit DAC asio driver.
3. To achieve bitperfect on Tidal with RME you need an external player or use a virtual audio cable.
4. If you want to go over 96kHz with Tidal on RME you need an 3rd party app with full software MQA decoding like Roon or Audirvana.
5. Tidal sucks, use qobuz, but it is just my personal opinion.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Tennessee said:


> 1. Tidal won't go over 96kHz with RME, because RME doesn't support (second) MQA unfolding.
> 2. Tidal on windows is broken with RME drivers and won't change sample rates, because Tidal app doesn't support 24 bit DAC asio driver.
> 3. To achieve bitperfect on Tidal with RME you need an external player or use a virtual audio cable.
> 4. If you want to go over 96kHz with Tidal on RME you need an 3rd party app with full software MQA decoding like Roon or Audirvana.
> 5. Tidal sucks, use qobuz, but it is just my personal opinion.


Great post, I forgot some of those points since I don't use my RME for Tidal. Now that you mention them, I remember the frustration of What moments between Tidal and RME.

Anyway, Qobuz is not available everywhere and Tidal does not suck here. But other than that, well-said


----------



## flubje

Tennessee said:


> 1. Tidal won't go over 96kHz with RME, because RME doesn't support (second) MQA unfolding.
> 2. Tidal on windows is broken with RME drivers and won't change sample rates, because Tidal app doesn't support 24 bit DAC asio driver.
> 3. To achieve bitperfect on Tidal with RME you need an external player or use a virtual audio cable.
> 4. If you want to go over 96kHz with Tidal on RME you need an 3rd party app with full software MQA decoding like Roon or Audirvana.
> 5. Tidal sucks, use qobuz, but it is just my personal opinion.


I guess Tidal does suck then if it takes 2nd unfolding to go past 96...... another DAC(earmen) I have that is MQA still doesn't go above 96kHz


----------



## Tennessee

Probably because you don’t play bitperfect.


----------



## 486892 (Mar 12, 2022)

I started to experiment with the filters again and ended up SD Sharp, because its larger/wider soundstage. NOS has nice attack for percussive elements, but its not otherwise in balance and I wasn't be able to give it an EQ correction.

Slow sound most comfortable and has a nice mid area focus, but being more narrow to SD Sharp, which sound quite perfect with some basic well known mastering EQ tweeks, like a small ~1dB/1,7Q cut for 100 (boominess), 450-500 (boxiness), 1500-2000 (dynamics) and 7000-8000 (sibilance), and a small 0,5dB boost for 5000 (presence).

I do add some air, kind of high shelf boost with SSL 4K harmonic distortion. Elysia Karacter adds some similar harmonic distortion to lower freqs.


----------



## ST33L

I was hesitate buying planars because of all of the weak amp claims. Well, I’m here to inform that it drives my Fostex Argons w/plenty of overhead and punch. I surmised that only the most demanding headphones might yield some caution, but the majority of all others should not fear…


----------



## RayMets1 (Mar 12, 2022)

I must say the RME ADI-2 FS paired with the Topping A90 has a more pronounced and authoritative low end, and slightly crisper sound overall. I'm really enjoying this pairing with my Focal Clear MG and LCD-XC.


----------



## ST33L

Anybody know if you can change the colors on the DigiCheck? I thought I saw somewhere that it’s possible. I inquired at the RME User Forum w/no reply. Thanks


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Mar 12, 2022)

ST33L said:


> I was hesitate buying planars because of all of the weak amp claims. Well, I’m here to inform that it drives my Fostex Argons w/plenty of overhead and punch. I surmised that only the most demanding headphones might yield some caution, but the majority of all others should not fear…



Planars vary widely in terms of how hard they are to drive. The RME does a great job with LCD-2C and a very good job with LCD-3. I don't like my HD 600 or 800 out of it, so I am not going to bother trying it with my HE6SE.

And, if you don't have a basis for comparison then it's hard to put much faith in comments about how well something appears to be driven.


----------



## ST33L

gimmeheadroom said:


> Planars vary widely in terms of how hard they are to drive. The RME does a great job with LCD-2C and a very good job with LCD-3. I don't like my HD 600 or 800 out of it, so I am not going to bother trying it with my HE6SE.
> 
> And, if you don't have a basis for comparison then it's hard to put much faith in comments about how well something appears to be driven.


Obviously planars vary widely in terms of how hard they are to drive, but they are generally harder to drive than similarly spec’ed dynamic headphones. And, I’m not asking anyone to have faith in my comment, as your response had a likewise effect. I’m just illuminating that there is no weak-amp boogieman, and that the RME specs show that it can easily drive most headphones, including all of mine, which is the basis for my comparison, but I’m certainly not against adding more power, which I plan to do…


----------



## music_man (Mar 13, 2022)

Some punishment for mistreating it 

Go use an aftermarket LPS. Either you just realized no sound improvement whatsoever or cause damage to two filter capacitors. RME already made the best PSU for the ADI-2. It sounds no different om batteries either. That is no mistake. It is done on purpose. This is pro audio equipment. They require repeatable results. Not guessing games. The same for the SOTA onboard headphone amplifier. No guessing games there either. The unit as a whole allows the Engineer to listen to exactly what is recorded in every manner. Through headphones. A Topping A30 for instance is not even close to the level of the headphone amp in the ADI-2 IMO. I know that is subjective and YMMV but I do think that is a huge limb. In fact, I think absolutely everything added to the ADI-2 in this thread would sound like rubbish to me. The ADI-2 is supposed to be synergy as a whole. It was never intended to be used with an outboard headphone amplifier. It is completely true to the source and absolutely resolving. If anyone feels that they need to change that I think they should look for a different product. It really is one device that should be appreciated as is. Nothing really compliments it. It is an Engineering tool. Not much unlike a Doctor's stethoscope. It does it's job in the most exacting manner possible and thus requires no support. It is the final word.

Furthermore there are plenty of clueless that see generic Chinese boxes that easily outspec this over at ASR. Plus they even have better DAC chips. Well, those must be better for only $300, right? You do the math. No, hold up I shall do it this time. A whole is not always a sum of it's parts. Like a Corvette with numbers that don't match. It may have a 600 horsepower motor but it goes oh so slow. Plus it is worthless. These random DAC's spec great and measure great. More often than not they wreak of a DoDp bird call and are sans beautiful music . They have all the right stuff on paper but got it all wrong compared to something like the ADI-2. If anyone wondered, that type of mathematics is known as Qualitative logic.

On that note, I am not being nearly as serious as I sound. I will not even defend my statements.  Want to yell at me? Be my guest. Just as sticking a $300 generic Chinese amp onto a State of the Art amp is highly subjective so are our opinions! Including, but not limited to my own!


----------



## 486892 (Mar 13, 2022)

music_man said:


> Some punishment for mistreating it
> 
> Go use an aftermarket LPS. Either you just realized no sound improvement whatsoever or cause damage to two filter capacitors. RME already made the best PSU for the ADI-2. It sounds no different om batteries either. That is no mistake. It is done on purpose. This is pro audio equipment. They require repeatable results. Not guessing games. The same for the SOTA onboard headphone amplifier. No guessing games there either. The unit as a whole allows the Engineer to listen to exactly what is recorded in every manner. Through headphones. A Topping A30 for instance is not even close to the level of the headphone amp in the ADI-2 IMO. I know that is subjective and YMMV but I do think that is a huge limb. In fact, I think absolutely everything added to the ADI-2 in this thread would sound like rubbish to me. The ADI-2 is supposed to be synergy as a whole. It was never intended to be used with an outboard headphone amplifier. It is completely true to the source and absolutely resolving. If anyone feels that they need to change that I think they should look for a different product. It really is one device that should be appreciated as is. Nothing really compliments it. It is an Engineering tool. Not much unlike a Doctor's stethoscope. It does it's job in the most exacting manner possible and thus requires no support. It is the final word.
> 
> ...


I agree with you that your chain should follow same quality from RME.

RME is engineered for mixing/mastering engineers, so same 'size' stuff, like Neve, SSL, Elysia etc will follow the synergy, not opposite if you know the reason you need them for.

But, I'm guessing that you are not an engineer? Because sound engineering is ALL about clean source with multiple channels with complex chaining with a proper tools; software or quite often hardware.

The result will be judged by your ears, which will make you or break you.


----------



## music_man

I was an Engineer for 38 years. Now I am an elderly cripple. I made many hit CD's through this box. It really ;lets us monitor with headphones. The Lavry,Apogee,Benchmark all fell short IMO. We always had to rally between Genelec nearfield monitors and DT770 Pro's. With this and better headphones such as the K872, mastering could fully be accomplished solely on headphones. The soundstage, placement, micing everything was exactly real. This new system made work much faster. What used to take me a week now took me 10-12 hours. It is a genuine tool. On page 1 of this a guy has a $129 tube amp. That can be fun. I guess it hits a bone with me because I took my job seriously. That one was not for pleasure. It easily could be though. I cannot even see hooking it up to the WA33 Elite JPS. Now that is talking though. I kind of wonder how it would sound through a cost no object amp. An Topping A90 or A30, even a Cavelli or IFI Pro will not do it justice IMO. That is all subjective. I personally would not sleep on the amp in there. That is a serious amp. It is not like an OPA1612 IC. It is a MOSFET current loopback design.

As for the LPS, I think luckily only very few people were interested in that with this. RME said not to do it. Just as Monoprice said not to subject the LP HPA to it. Then everyone cried when their LP died 2 day's later. RME, I would really listen to. 

 You can get generic Chinese DAC's for $400 with a Es9038AS and much better THD+N, better SNR ETC.
Made with junk components, slapped together, nonexistent quality control, one unit does not sound or measure like the next. Made in a factory with a dirt floor in China.
Or the RME is made to exacting, precise standards in cleanroom environments by highly skilled Engineers and fabricators in Germany.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Mar 13, 2022)

ST33L said:


> Obviously planars vary widely in terms of how hard they are to drive, but they are generally harder to drive than similarly spec’ed dynamic headphones.



That is incorrect, I don't know where you get that from. How hard something is to drive well is based on (true) impedance and sensitivity. There is no other difference. Actually, we could say that Planars are easier to drive than similarly spec'd dynamics, because planar impedance is purely or almost purely resistive and relatively static, while dynamic driver impedance varies across the frequency band and present a complex impedance to the amp.



ST33L said:


> I’m just illuminating that there is no weak-amp boogieman, and that the RME specs show that it can easily drive most headphones, including all of mine, which is the basis for my comparison



That is still not a basis for comparison. When you listen to headphone H out of amp A that is a known-good match and you know what that sounds like, you have a basis for comparison with amp B. How well something is or isn't driven is relative to how well other amps drive it along with what the headphone is known to be capable of. If you compare one amp to how it drives your other headphones out of the same amp, you still don't know if something is being driven properly or not.


----------



## 486892 (Mar 13, 2022)

music_man said:


> I was an Engineer for 38 years. Now I am an elderly cripple. I made many hit CD's through this box. It really ;lets us monitor with headphones. The Lavry,Apogee,Benchmark all fell short IMO. We always had to rally between Genelec nearfield monitors and DT770 Pro's. With this and better headphones such as the K872, mastering could fully be accomplished solely on headphones. The soundstage, placement, micing everything was exactly real. This new system made work much faster. What used to take me a week now took me 10-12 hours. It is a genuine tool. On page 1 of this a guy has a $129 tube amp. That can be fun. I guess it hits a bone with me because I took my job seriously. That one was not for pleasure. It easily could be though. I cannot even see hooking it up to the WA33 Elite JPS. Now that is talking though. I kind of wonder how it would sound through a cost no object amp. An Topping A90 or A30, even a Cavelli or IFI Pro will not do it justice IMO. That is all subjective. I personally would not sleep on the amp in there. That is a serious amp. It is not like an OPA1612 IC. It is a MOSFET current loopback design.
> 
> As for the LPS, I think luckily only very few people were interested in that with this. RME said not to do it. Just as Monoprice said not to subject the LP HPA to it. Then everyone cried when their LP died 2 day's later. RME, I would really listen to.
> 
> ...


Good to have your experienced input for this thread.

For me as well RME from all its competitors is the best there is, but the AMP I prefer only as a pre. Neve's amping is way better dynamic wise, and as clean as RME, but they sound the best with both amps together, so, Neve also I do not prefer as an amp only from RME out. Both of their amps together have a great synergy. Every other amp I'v tried added some coloring, exept RME and RNHP. All of them. And for me the DAC+AMP has to stay superclean for I can hear the other effects, like SSL Fusion.

We are very fortuned to have these level of equipments today for home studios, like you said.


----------



## music_man

Well, yes rupert Neve equipment sounds better than that little RME. Out of the Neve 80 type system boards I do prefer the headphone jack. The thing is there is a time and p;ace to hook up to the ADI-2 for the mastering 2 channel session. After the mixdown. When the final tweaking is being done to the stereo mix. 

Your Signature is your project studio? Gee Whiz. I am sure you do not want to say who you are just like I never would. That is the wonderful thing about the internet. there have been some great musicians on here.

Some cheap tube amps might be fun for a few hours but I would not plan on bettering the ADI-2 with a $300 no-name HPA.
I already think the RME is better overall than the Benchmark, burson, Sennheiser, IDSD Pro. Pretty much all of it's competition. It does not have nearly the top IC's but the topology is implemented so well.

There are some real tube amps in the $4,000 range that are fine if one likes that sound. I suppose that might be interesting. I would stick around to hear it. This is not really something you would use with Grado's but I am thinking of pretty refined stuff. I have not read this entire thread but I am working on it.


----------



## 486892 (Mar 13, 2022)

music_man said:


> Well, yes rupert Neve equipment sounds better than that little RME. Out of the Neve 80 type system boards I do prefer the headphone jack. The thing is there is a time and p;ace to hook up to the ADI-2 for the mastering 2 channel session. After the mixdown. When the final tweaking is being done to the stereo mix.
> 
> Your Signature is your project studio? Gee Whiz. I am sure you do not want to say who you are just like I never would. That is the wonderful thing about the internet. there have been some great musicians on here.
> 
> ...


Thank you sir, you know better. Things might get bias if not staying blind.

I do use ADI's chain as a channel for mixing/recording single tracks, buss channels, mixdowns, pre-masters, masters or post-masters, through different set of hardware bypassed or not, depending on the current situation or need.

Can I ask, which hardware limiters you have experienced with and would prefer? I'm looking for one at the moment for final master.


----------



## ST33L (Apr 26, 2022)

Ke


gimmeheadroom said:


> That is incorrect, I don't know where you get that from. How hard something is to drive well is based on (true) impedance and sensitivity. There is no other difference. Actually, we could say that Planars are easier to drive than similarly spec'd dynamics, because planar impedance is purely or almost purely resistive and relatively static, while dynamic driver impedance varies across the frequency band and present a complex impedance to the amp.
> 
> 
> 
> That is still not a basis for comparison. When you listen to headphone H out of amp A that is a known-good match and you know what that sounds like, you have a basis for comparison with amp B. How well something is or isn't driven is relative to how well other amps drive it along with what the headphone is known to be capable of. If you compare one amp to how it drives your other headphones out of the same amp, you still don't know if something is being driven properly or not.


Meh…


----------



## music_man

Compressor? ELYSIA ALPHA. You know your way around it already I guess.

I saw most amps used were on par with the inbuilt one of the ADI-2. So, in the case here just a waste of money really. A few were much better though. Only 1 or 2 were not as good. Not a lot of people used other PSU's. One guy did and it was like $1,200. I sure hope it sounds better for his sake. I would have no interest. If that is your motive, buy a better DAC. The IFI IPower-X can provide clean power but it is really a waste. Since the ADI-2 cleans the power that much once it enters the unit anyways. Likewise, assuming you have 'normal' household utility power just plug this in the wall or a Tripp-Lite power strip without surge protection. Power conditioners and power cords are a complete waste of money on this too. On amplifiers or Turntables sure go right ahead. So all in all it does not look like it was being disrespected very much at all now that I have read all 329 pages. Myself and this DAC had deep roots so I pay it respect. I might order one for the heck of it. I cannot accumulate too much stuff here in the nursing home.


----------



## 486892 (Mar 13, 2022)

music_man said:


> Compressor? ELYSIA ALPHA. You know your way around it already I guess.
> 
> I saw most amps used were on par with the inbuilt one of the ADI-2. So, in the case here just a waste of money really. A few were much better though. Only 1 or 2 were not as good. Not a lot of people used other PSU's. One guy did and it was like $1,200. I sure hope it sounds better for his sake. I would have no interest. If that is your motive, buy a better DAC. The IFI IPower-X can provide clean power but it is really a waste. Since the ADI-2 cleans the power that much once it enters the unit anyways. Likewise, assuming you have 'normal' household utility power just plug this in the wall or a Tripp-Lite power strip without surge protection. Power conditioners and power cords are a complete waste of money on this too. On amplifiers or Turntables sure go right ahead. So all in all it does not look like it was being disrespected very much at all now that I have read all 329 pages. Myself and this DAC had deep roots so I pay it respect. I might order one for the heck of it. I cannot accumulate too much stuff here in the nursing home.


Yes, what else than Alpha, of course. You know the gear. That would be a wet dream to own one day. I'v tried it and I have its tiny brother Elysia's Xpressor.

Thank you mate, and take care, and keep up with tuning the community.


----------



## music_man

I figured about trying an IPower-X with it. At least it will not harm the ADI-2. On the other hand, it is probably just flushing $110 down the potty. If it makes a difference anyone can hear it has to be psychoacoustics.


----------



## Matias

music_man said:


> I figured about trying an IPower-X with it. At least it will not harm the ADI-2. On the other hand, it is probably just flushing $110 down the potty. If it makes a difference anyone can hear it has to be psychoacoustics.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-ipower-x-the-official-thread.926656/post-16236813


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## stevoluvslulu (Mar 15, 2022)

Enjoy music!


----------



## 486892

stevoluvslulu said:


> _Racial discrimination in a headphone forum, really??? Nothing better to do? _
> 
> _just enjoy you music, music man.... _


You have a point, but, since when claiming your flroor dirty is considered being racist?


----------



## stevoluvslulu (Mar 15, 2022)

Focus on music


----------



## stevoluvslulu (Mar 15, 2022)

Focus on Audio gear, and enjoy your music!


----------



## music_man

NO, I love Chinese merchandise. You don't know me at all. I just said you do not compare the bottom Toyota to the top Lexus. They are both made by the same company even but not the same. $400 headphone amplifier is not the same as the one RME puts in the ADI-2. I could care less if it is Swedish. I am not racist at all. The dirt floor is true. Not because it is dirty. In China they do not have labor laws like G7 countries. I admit, that part I should have kept to myself. I apologize for saying that out loud.

Okay, now a real question that is on topic!
How do I fix/lock the volume on the XLR outputs? Please tell me every button to push to get to the correct menu in the ADI-2 display screen.
Also, per the post a few pages back how do I change the display graphic? Again, please tell me in a non complicated manner.
I know I did this for a living. I am old and sick now. Please just bear with me.


----------



## 486892

stevoluvslulu said:


> Focus on audio gears. No need mention these stuff, if you don't like China manufactured gear, that is all good. I only have 1 headphone amp made in China.
> 
> All the factory floor are clean in your country?


Yes they are, because of certificates. Genelecs for example are from my country.. thats why they are expencive.


----------



## music_man

Amphion are also from your country. I assure that you would eat off of their floor. enough of that though. the point is made. their is always something better quality you can get. Amphion is so great. they do not make much though. Genelec makes something for every applicatin. A great example of DSP at work. Maybe not the best specs. Maybe not a 4499 or 9038 DAC. Instead things I can really use to improve the sound.Besides the ADI-2 has been made for about 5 years. The Chinese have a new model every 6 months. Then they discontinue the ld model and don't support it. Not professional equipment. Junk if you ask me. Why would anyone put a $300 amplifier with the ADI-2? Of course it is not as good. So okay, we are Audiophiles and not Engineers. then use a $1,500 Amplifier at least. I do not even care if it is Chinese. In the third post of this thread the guy has a Liquid Crimson. That is an awesome Chinse amplifier. I am currently using it's Brother the Liquid Platinum. It costs $800 at Monoprice but amazon currently has it on sale for $639.

I cannot figure out how to fix/;pck the volume. I also take it there is no dimmer on the display?


----------



## skhan007

flubje said:


> Do you guys find it a bit weak as a headphone amp? Might anger some people with this comment 🙈





dougq said:


> No not at all.  It provides every bit of detail you can get.  And at default settings you are getting exactly what you should out of the source.  You can color it with EQ settings or change other things.
> 
> It's got a substantial amount of power for an AIO.  I don't own a Susvara or any other outlier of headphone that may require something like that, *but it has driven my ZMF headphones, and HD8XX headphones without even needing to go into  hi power. *Same with the Arya's.  You will most likely get full dynamic range, with full detail, and ability to change the sound through the built in eq.


Agree with the above. This has been my exact experience.


----------



## music_man

100% agree there. If you get a good enough amp you can get a very nice colored sound but you cannot obtain a more accurate one. You can get any colored sound you want on the ADI-2 with the EQ though. It just takes some skill to use correctly.


----------



## DivinesGaming

Really interested in getting this DAC, and buying used, just not sure if I should emphasize the AKG chip or the ESS.. I'll be doing my research though.


----------



## mugbot

DivinesGaming said:


> Really interested in getting this DAC, and buying used, just not sure if I should emphasize the AKG chip or the ESS.. I'll be doing my research though.


They sound exactly the same to me, and the manufacturer (who has a _lot _of experience in this space) agrees.


----------



## skhan007

Do any of you have recommended EQ settings for the ZMF Auteur?


----------



## Forsaked

Tennessee said:


> Uninstall RME drivers in device manager and madiface software, restart PC, windows will automatically install USB audio 2.0 class driver, choose in qobuz adi 2 dac in wasapi exclusive mode, which is better than asio anyway, unless you are producing.


But WASAPI does not support automatic sample rate switching.
It means that you nearly always gonna oversample or undersample, based on your Windows settings and the source.


----------



## ainzz

Anyone running it with a Rupert Neve RNHP with RME as Pre-amp.

Does it offer any upgrade in SQ or would it just be chucking money away?

Happy with the RME but I only ask as a used unit has come up at a good price.


----------



## creed2

Hi, I have a current RME adi 2 I bought maybe a year or so and have never updated it. I am not using headphones and running through Conrad Johnson and Joseph Audio speakers. It sounds so good I’m scared to run a update. Why change something that isn’t broke. Will this change the Sonics of RME? If so what will I hear that has changed for good or bad thanks for any advise.


----------



## Tano

creed2 said:


> Hi, I have a current RME adi 2 I bought maybe a year or so and have never updated it. I am not using headphones and running through Conrad Johnson and Joseph Audio speakers. It sounds so good I’m scared to run a update. Why change something that isn’t broke. Will this change the Sonics of RME? If so what will I hear that has changed for good or bad thanks for any advise.


Nothing changes in the sound. You get loads of new and great features with the updates, so I highly recommend you to do the firmware update.


----------



## David A Silva (Apr 5, 2022)

@music_man 
I've gotten comfortable with the Menu system...
Auto dimmer Setting
-Press Setup button
-Turn knob 1 until top menu reads "Options  1"
-Press knob 1 until 2nd menu line shows 2 on the end of the line
-Turn knob 2 until 2nd menu line reads
"Display    2"
-Press knob 2 4 times to arrive at setting "Auto Dark Mode" and turn knob 2 to setting you want off or on

This reads more complex than it is!

I don't use the xlr outs, but if you want we can skype, facetime, or zoom call, and I can help walk thru the output settings. They are here someplace, I came across them earlier. Do you remember seeing them?


----------



## David A Silva

creed2 said:


> Hi, I have a current RME adi 2 I bought maybe a year or so and have never updated it. I am not using headphones and running through Conrad Johnson and Joseph Audio speakers. It sounds so good I’m scared to run a update. Why change something that isn’t broke. Will this change the Sonics of RME? If so what will I hear that has changed for good or bad thanks for any advise.


I agree with @Tano 's post. The firmware updates seem pretty solid for base functionality, if there are bugs they are not show stoppers. I've put 3-4 updates on 2 RME units without issues.


----------



## David A Silva

music_man said:


> I cannot figure out how to fix/;pck the volume. I also take it there is no dimmer on the display?


Here is a good thread on the rme forum
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29924


----------



## technobear

David A Silva said:


> @music_man
> I've gotten comfortable with the Menu system...
> Auto dimmer Setting
> -Press Setup button
> ...


...or you could just use the '3' button on the remote control if you haven't reassigned it.


----------



## David A Silva

technobear said:


> ...or you could just use the '3' button on the remote control if you haven't reassigned it.


I learned something new!!! Thank you!


----------



## Audiophile PT

Firmware Update ADI-2 DAC 78 / 49 and ADI-2 Pro 262 / 113:​
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=185970


----------



## DivinesGaming

Looks like they've only updated the Mac side thus far. Still waiting on the Windows update myself.


----------



## ST33L

I love zoning out to this screen 📺


----------



## ST33L

Audiophile PT said:


> Firmware Update ADI-2 DAC 78 / 49 and ADI-2 Pro 262 / 113:​
> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=185970


Thanks for the info👍


----------



## skhan007

ST33L said:


> I love zoning out to this screen 📺


That’s cool! How does one view the RME screen on their Mac? I’d like to do this.


----------



## ST33L (Apr 26, 2022)

skhan007 said:


> That’s cool! How does one view the RME screen on their Mac? I’d like to do this.



Download the DigiTech software at the RME site. Here’s the link: https://rme-audio.com/software.html

Edit: *DigiCheck*


----------



## Phoniac

Not DigiTech. It's _DigiCheck NG_ for Maccies, and _DIGICheck_ when using Windows.


----------



## ZzBOG

hey guys I am considering ADI-2 for my HD800s. 
one questions - can I use ADI-2 with Dolby Atmos (I have the Atmos app on my PC)?


----------



## David A Silva

ZzBOG said:


> hey guys I am considering ADI-2 for my HD800s.
> one questions - can I use ADI-2 with Dolby Atmos (I have the Atmos app on my PC)?


Good question - I’d like to know too.


----------



## mugbot

It's a 2 channel DAC so I don't think so. You'd need a receiver for dolby atmos or other surround sound.


----------



## Tennessee

Forsaked said:


> But WASAPI does not support automatic sample rate switching.
> It means that you nearly always gonna oversample or undersample, based on your Windows settings and the source.


It does in exclusive mode.


----------



## ST33L

RayMets1 said:


> I must say the RME ADI-2 FS paired with the Topping A90 has a more pronounced and authoritative low end, and slightly crisper sound overall. I'm really enjoying this pairing with my Focal Clear MG and LCD-XC.


I have the A90 hooked up to another DAC. Thinking of streamlining. How did you run it from the RME, and what settings did you use to bypass the RME internal amp? Would like SE and balanced. Picture of the back would be appreciated. I certainly don’t want to screw it up... ha. Thanks!


----------



## DivinesGaming

ST33L said:


> I have the A90 hooked up to another DAC. Thinking of streamlining. How did you run it from the RME, and what settings did you use to bypass the RME internal amp? Would like SE and balanced. Picture of the back would be appreciated. I certainly don’t want to screw it up... ha. Thanks!


I believe he just has two RCA's going from the output of the RME ADI 2 DAC, to the Input of the A90 Amp. Alternative, he could have used two XLR to XLR short interconnects to connect both devices, which would be done like this: RME ADI 2 DAC output connected to A90 Amp input. This will set the Dac into 'Line out' mode, and will bypass the Amp of the device, and use the amp of the A90. The headphones would be plugged in to the A90 for audio.


----------



## fordski

Has anyone here tried the headphone out with HiFiMan Edition XS headphones. I'm looking to get an all in one solution for my desktop and want to make sure the headphone out of the RME performs well with these headphones. Thanks.


----------



## dougq

fordski said:


> Has anyone here tried the headphone out with HiFiMan Edition XS headphones. I'm looking to get an all in one solution for my desktop and want to make sure the headphone out of the RME performs well with these headphones. Thanks.


Worked fantastic with them. The rme I find is really good with planars.


----------



## fordski

dougq said:


> Worked fantastic with them. The rme I find is really good with planars.


Thanks for your reply, that's reassuring! It's a tossup between the RME and the Matrix mini-1 Pro 3 (I like it due to the Roon streaming capabilities, but the RME also has me intrigued with the ability to use EQ right in the DAC.


----------



## dougq

fordski said:


> Thanks for your reply, that's reassuring! It's a tossup between the RME and the Matrix mini-1 Pro 3 (I like it due to the Roon streaming capabilities, but the RME also has me intrigued with the ability to use EQ right in the DAC.


I’m not into room streaming but every headphone I have owned I always adjust with eq (normally it’s a bass shelf of some sort) and I also use different devices so having that eq across headphones and devices is perfect.


----------



## fordski

dougq said:


> I’m not into room streaming but every headphone I have owned I always adjust with eq (normally it’s a bass shelf of some sort) and I also use different devices so having that eq across headphones and devices is perfect.


Yes that is a huge advantage of the RME, as it's source independent. I can EQ in Roon but it's only for Roon content not other sources such as Apple Music, movies etc.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ZzBOG said:


> hey guys I am considering ADI-2 for my HD800s.



Not the best choice for 300 ohm Sennheisers. Do you have an amp?


----------



## Sajid Amit

Has anyone compared the RME ADI 2 as a DAC (ESS version) with the DAC section of the Matrix Element X?


----------



## FinHifi

Fun stuff,  with RME if you have high impedance headphones, use xlr. I a/b RCA VS XLR (to SA-1) with my ADX5000 and there is a difference in low end, slightly more dynamic presentation. Midrange and treble showd no difference and initially i tought that there is no difference. RCA has 100Ω impedance and XLR has 200Ω so there might be the reason for mor energy in the low end. I dont believe that this is due to cable quality and if both were 150Ω i dont think there would be a difference.


----------



## Slaphead

FinHifi said:


> Fun stuff,  with RME if you have high impedance headphones, use xlr. I a/b RCA VS XLR (to SA-1) with my ADX5000 and there is a difference in low end, slightly more dynamic presentation. Midrange and treble showd no difference and initially i tought that there is no difference. RCA has 100Ω impedance and XLR has 200Ω so there might be the reason for mor energy in the low end. I dont believe that this is due to cable quality and if both were 150Ω i dont think there would be a difference.


As a general rule the output impedance of a headphone amp shouldn't exceed 1/8th of the impedance of the headphone. Now by rights if you're using XLR as a source at 200Ω then your headphones should be at least 1600Ω.

In fact the lower the output impedance the better in all cases.

My feeling is that you're getting a frequency response shift that happens with the mismatched impedances that you like rather than it being actually correct.

But if you like it, then knock yourself out - I've long since given up on what is considered correct and what is not considered correct in HiFi


----------



## Dogmatrix

Slaphead said:


> As a general rule the output impedance of a headphone amp shouldn't exceed 1/8th of the impedance of the headphone. Now by rights if you're using XLR as a source at 200Ω then your headphones should be at least 1600Ω.
> 
> In fact the lower the output impedance the better in all cases.
> 
> ...


I believe the (to SA-1) in the post refers to a Singxer SA-1 headphone amp


----------



## FinHifi

Dogmatrix said:


> I believe the (to SA-1) in the post refers to a Singxer SA-1 headphone amp


Yes that is what i ment


----------



## gimmeheadroom

FinHifi said:


> Fun stuff,  with RME if you have high impedance headphones, use xlr. I a/b RCA VS XLR (to SA-1) with my ADX5000 and there is a difference in low end, slightly more dynamic presentation. Midrange and treble showd no difference and initially i tought that there is no difference. RCA has 100Ω impedance and XLR has 200Ω so there might be the reason for mor energy in the low end. I dont believe that this is due to cable quality and if both were 150Ω i dont think there would be a difference.


RCA outputs on the back panel are 100 ohms impedance. Nobody runs headphones off those.

The headphone jack is 0.1 ohms impedance,


----------



## Dogmatrix

gimmeheadroom said:


> RCA outputs on the back panel are 100 ohms impedance. Nobody runs headphones off those.
> 
> The headphone jack is 0.1 ohms impedance,


He is not talking about running headphones off the rear outputs 
He was running a headphone amp (SA-1) between


----------



## Slaphead

Dogmatrix said:


> I believe the (to SA-1) in the post refers to a Singxer SA-1 headphone amp





FinHifi said:


> Yes that is what i ment


Then my bad. What I said is not applicable in this case (but nevertheless correct for a HP output)

Note to self - must read posts thoroughly before splaffing my hands on a keyboard.


----------



## Roses54

Anyone here considering selling? Very quiet in the classifieds..


----------



## dougq

Roses54 said:


> Anyone here considering selling? Very quiet in the classifieds..


Maybe once the launch of the new one comes in a few months. It’s a hard device to sell. Fully featured dac, powerful amp that drives 99% headphones fully.


----------



## Verificateur

dougq said:


> Maybe once the launch of the new one comes in a few months. It’s a hard device to sell. Fully featured dac, powerful amp that drives 99% headphones fully.


Agreed. 
Only thing I wish it had a 4.4mm output… if even for the fact that I wouldn’t have to use adapters with most of my headphones.


----------



## Mansinthe86

Verificateur said:


> Agreed.
> Only thing I wish it had a 4.4mm output… if even for the fact that I wouldn’t have to use adapters with most of my headphones.


The new version will have 4.4mm output


----------



## Verificateur (Jun 4, 2022)

Mansinthe86 said:


> The new version will have 4.4mm output


Ah! I must be out of loop on the new version.
Could you share a link to source on the 4.4mm info, and some info about the upcoming model ?


----------



## Slaphead

dougq said:


> Maybe once the launch of the new one comes in a few months. *It’s a hard device to sell.* Fully featured dac, powerful amp that drives 99% headphones fully.


I think what you mean is that it's an easy device to sell, but a hard device to part with


----------



## 04gto

Verificateur said:


> Ah! I must be out of loop on the new version.
> Could you share a link to source on the 4.4mm info, and some info about the upcoming model ?


Here is what I found: 
RME User Forum
Is that an RME ADI-2/4 PRO SE DAC prototype?
RME-Audio – RME ADI-2/4 PRO SE prototype spotted!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Mansinthe86 said:


> The new version will have 4.4mm output


We should clarify, it is not a new version of the RME ADI-2 FS DAC this thread is about, it is an upgraded pro version which will be more expensive than the current pro version.


----------



## inseconds99

gimmeheadroom said:


> We should clarify, it is not a new version of the RME ADI-2 FS DAC this thread is about, it is an upgraded pro version which will be more expensive than the current pro version.


I, for one, cannot wait.


----------



## 04gto

inseconds99 said:


> I, for one, cannot wait.


Same here. I would put in my order now if they would let me!


----------



## Slaphead (Jun 7, 2022)

inseconds99 said:


> I, for one, cannot wait.





04gto said:


> Same here. I would put in my order now if they would let me!


I for one am a little bit more cautious. Not that I don't believe that this upgraded version won't be any good, I'm sure it will be fantastic - it's RME after all. It's more to do with what would I gain above my original first gen (with the AK4490). I fear that I would gain little more than some "paper" improvements that are honestly not going to be audible, at least in my particular usage case and setting.

The 4.4 balanced is irrelevant to me as none of my headphones are balanced, nor do I see any requirement for headphones to be balanced - but that's just me. If that's for you then go for it.

I've been around expensive hobbies for more time (and money) that I would care to share, and one thing I've learned is that chasing after the latest and greatest often nets you little more than pride of ownership and bragging rights - especially with technology that's mature such as camera lenses and audio production gear, which can cost a hell of a lot. Often it turns out that it's way better to buy an older model rather than the newer model.

Maybe I'm getting older and less prone to impulse, but I would suggest that unless there really is something that you really need from the new model, or there is a significant improvement in a particular aspect that applies to you, then it'll probably be a better idea to save the money and stick with the old one, at least for the time being.


----------



## Bret Halford

04gto said:


> Here is what I found:
> RME User Forum
> Is that an RME ADI-2/4 PRO SE DAC prototype?
> RME-Audio – RME ADI-2/4 PRO SE prototype spotted!



Pretty sure those picks show 2, 6.35 mm jacks that can be operated in balanced (ala the current ADI-2 Pro FS-R Black), with a new additional SE 3.5 mm jack in the middle. Just look at the diameters in the pick, the center jack is half the size of the 1/4 inchers, not 2/3...   the 2nd link even mentions it's a 3.5 mm in the center. 

Not saying there isn't a new 4.4 mm model in the works (no idea either way), but that's not what's pictured there as far as I can tell.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Bret Halford said:


> Pretty sure those picks show 2, 6.35 mm jacks that can be operated in balanced (ala the current ADI-2 Pro FS-R Black), with a new additional SE 3.5 mm jack in the middle. Just look at the diameters in the pick, the center jack is half the size of the 1/4 inchers, not 2/3...   the 2nd link even mentions it's a 3.5 mm in the center.
> 
> Not saying there isn't a new 4.4 mm model in the works (no idea either way), but that's not what's pictured there as far as I can tell.


Well, Mathias is about as cranky as the rest of us old guys. Guys who asked for Bluetooth (LOL), MQA, etc. have been shot down on the forums.

I would be shocked if he went for 4,4mm, especially on the Pro model which is clearly targeted not at the hifi crowd who loves the non-pro model.


----------



## Matias

gimmeheadroom said:


> I would be shocked if he went for 4,4mm, especially on the Pro model which is clearly targeted not at the hifi crowd who loves the non-pro model.


Zap! ⚡






https://www.gearnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/RME-ADI-24-PRO-SE-DAC-770x425.jpg


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Matias said:


> Zap! ⚡
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.gearnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/RME-ADI-24-PRO-SE-DAC-770x425.jpg


First of all I was talking about _the other Mathias _

And secondly, like @Slaphead said, that does not look like a 4,4mm jack to us


----------



## Matias

gimmeheadroom said:


> First of all I was talking about _the other Mathias _
> 
> And secondly, like @Slaphead said, that does not look like a 4,4mm jack to us


Yes, I know you meant him, he has an H in his name and mine does not.

Anyway, about 4.4 mm, it was confirmed by that grumpy dude. Hahaha just kidding, he seems to be a nice guy. 
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=188318#p188318


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Matias said:


> Yes, I know you meant him, he has an H in his name and mine does not.
> 
> Anyway, about 4.4 mm, it was confirmed by that grumpy dude. Hahaha just kidding, he seems to be a nice guy.
> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=188318#p188318


1. Friedhelm added DSD support to his DACs
2. Mathias added a 4,4mm jack to his DAC
3. The world is coming to an end!

"So who's president in 1984, Future Boy?!"


----------



## 04gto

Bret Halford said:


> Pretty sure those picks show 2, 6.35 mm jacks that can be operated in balanced (ala the current ADI-2 Pro FS-R Black), with a new additional SE 3.5 mm jack in the middle. Just look at the diameters in the pick, the center jack is half the size of the 1/4 inchers, not 2/3...   the 2nd link even mentions it's a 3.5 mm in the center.
> 
> Not saying there isn't a new 4.4 mm model in the works (no idea either way), but that's not what's pictured there as far as I can tell.


If you go watch the videos on youtube (search *RME ADI-2/4 PRO SE*), they mention the 4.4 jack. Also if you actually take the time to READ in the forum in the first link, the admin (MC) mentions the 4.4.


----------



## Bret Halford

04gto said:


> If you go watch the videos on youtube (search *RME ADI-2/4 PRO SE*), they mention the 4.4 jack. Also if you actually take the time to READ in the forum in the first link, the admin (MC) mentions the 4.4.



If you took the time to READ my post, you'd see I very clearly didn't argue whether or not this existed or not, just pointed out the ratios in that pic are way off (they are).


----------



## 04gto

Bret Halford said:


> If you took the time to READ my post, you'd see I very clearly didn't argue whether or not this existed or not, just pointed out the ratios in that pic are way off (they are).


I did READ your post. I did look at the diameters in the pic and this has only convinced me that your micrometer is broken or out of calibration.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I guess an easier answer is that is not a pic of the DAC as it's going to ship. There was discussion about a different power supply that was going to require a larger enclosure etc. The pics we are seeing could be mock ups, prototypes, etc.


----------



## Bret Halford

gimmeheadroom said:


> I guess an easier answer is that is not a pic of the DAC as it's going to ship. There was discussion about a different power supply that was going to require a larger enclosure etc. The pics we are seeing could be mock ups, prototypes, etc.


Impossible! Better to TALK IN CAPS and get angry about a DAC that isn't even the subject of this thread...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Bret Halford said:


> Impossible! Better to TALK IN CAPS and get angry about a DAC that isn't even the subject of this thread...



Agreed. I feel like often people lose sight of the reason we are on this forum. It is not only for info, but to hang out in a friendly atmosphere and shoot the breeze about stuff we love. I don't think disagreements have to be personal, tolerance is good for everybody.


----------



## Since1991 (Jun 11, 2022)

Would anyone be able to tell me why is this happening?

I got the RME ADI-2 connected directly to my computer via USB and I also had a FiiO K9 Pro ESS connected via USB. The RME was working perfectly fine until I unplugged the FiiO K9 Pro as I don't use the FiiO too often. Now the RME is not showing up in the sound settings, or the sound control panel. I tried to unplug and plug the USB, and I also tried to restart the computer.

If anyone had any similar issues and solved the problem, please let me know how to fix this issue, thank you.

Edit: It also says USB (disconnected) on the RME. I tried to switch out the USB cable for a different one, and I tried different USB ports on the computer. Nothing different happened. The (disconnected) part disappears when I connect the USB on the back of the RME for about 3 seconds then comes back on.


----------



## Benno1988

If I was after a punchy DAC with excellent preamping (volume control), what are my eBay options?

The RME, Chord TT2, Gustard X26? What else to choose from?


----------



## G8torbyte

Since1991 said:


> Would anyone be able to tell me why is this happening?
> 
> I got the RME ADI-2 connected directly to my computer via USB and I also had a FiiO K9 Pro ESS connected via USB. The RME was working perfectly fine until I unplugged the FiiO K9 Pro as I don't use the FiiO too often. Now the RME is not showing up in the sound settings, or the sound control panel. I tried to unplug and plug the USB, and I also tried to restart the computer.
> 
> ...


I have both a K9 Pro ESS and the RME connected on my PC using USB but have not run into the same conflict you are describing.  I do notice the K9 Pro's ASIO driver will take exclusive use of the output and will prevent other software from using the K9's output until the first player is closed.  There are ASIO versions for the RME but I use a WASAPI (shared) option sometimes to allow other sound output sources.  That takes away the bit-perfect functions if I understand correctly.


----------



## Since1991

G8torbyte said:


> I have both a K9 Pro ESS and the RME connected on my PC using USB but have not run into the same conflict you are describing.  I do notice the K9 Pro's ASIO driver will take exclusive use of the output and will prevent other software from using the K9's output until the first player is closed.  There are ASIO versions for the RME but I use a WASAPI (shared) option sometimes to allow other sound output sources.  That takes away the bit-perfect functions if I understand correctly.



Thanks for the reply. It just crossed my mind to actually try to turn the DAC off and on, and when I did that, it started working again. That was a weird one.


----------



## Slaphead

Since1991 said:


> Thanks for the reply. *It just crossed my mind to actually try to turn the DAC off and on*, and when I did that, it started working again. That was a weird one.


With anything related to computers and tech that is the absolute *FIRST* thing to do in the event of a problem - everything off then everything on again. It's the tech support mantra.

And no,  it's not really weird - the disconnection of the FiiO probably caused the USB controller on the RME to get into a hung, or otherwise non-functional state. Something that can be quite common with USB devices can be and easily rectified by power cycling the device.

Anyway I'm glad everything worked out for you.


----------



## drspeter

Since1991 said:


> Would anyone be able to tell me why is this happening?
> 
> I got the RME ADI-2 connected directly to my computer via USB and I also had a FiiO K9 Pro ESS connected via USB. The RME was working perfectly fine until I unplugged the FiiO K9 Pro as I don't use the FiiO too often. Now the RME is not showing up in the sound settings, or the sound control panel. I tried to unplug and plug the USB, and I also tried to restart the computer.
> 
> ...


Are you using the ess9028q2m version of ADI-2? can you please tell me more details of how it sounds better than K9 pro ess? I am debating whether it will be an upgrade if I go from k9 to ADI-2


----------



## ushman

On sale right now! $300 off 😁 wonder if there’s a new one coming


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ushman said:


> On sale right now! $300 off 😁 wonder if there’s a new one coming


There is, there is a Pro model with 4,4mm (the world has come to an end) and some other stuff which I have forgotten. But I would be surprised (I know it doesn't matter) if they would discontinue the base model.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

drspeter said:


> Are you using the ess9028q2m version of ADI-2? can you please tell me more details of how it sounds better than K9 pro ess? I am debating whether it will be an upgrade if I go from k9 to ADI-2


The ADI-2 is an upgrade to the K9 Pro and anything FiiO, SMSL, Topping, etc. will ever put out, until the end of all time.


----------



## TK33

ushman said:


> On sale right now! $300 off 😁 wonder if there’s a new one coming


If you mean a new successor to the ADI-2 DAC FS, then I doubt a new version is coming anytime soon.  RME confirmed this on another forum earlier this week.  Exact words were:

"No change planned for the forseeable future."


----------



## MLGrado

dougq said:


> Maybe once the launch of the new one comes in a few months. It’s a hard device to sell. Fully featured dac, powerful amp that drives 99% headphones fully.



no way am I selling mine, even though at one time i thought I might.  (i actually have the ADI PRO-2 FS R Black Edition)

I won't let go of this 'older' version with the exceptional AKM AK4493.  


I saw where they were blowing out some of the DAC only at Sweetwater.  But it doesn't say what DAC.  I assume they are clearing out their stock of AKM to make way for the 'upgraded' ones with ESS chipset.  

If that is the case, get one while you can.   There is something to be said about the AKM 'sound',  not to mention is has a native DSD Bypass mode 

I see where the are advertising the same feature with the ESS, but unless ESS made some major design architecture in some dark, back room late at night, I call BS.  

Sure you can technically keep the volume control on ESS chips at full, but the signal by design sends native DSD to the accumulator/flip-flop , then onward as multibit signal of whatever nature ESS finds is best (note I am tiptoeing around calling it PCM-narrow, DSD-wide, because any mention of this or that format will send some one into a tizzy)  and it ends up being finally converted to Delta Sigma again and converted by the Hyperstream DAC modules.  

Yes the AKM does something similar with its 'non-decimating' DSD volume control that then is sent to its DS Modulators for conversion.  It is the only way you can listen to headphones in DSD because the attenuator is digital.  But using the PRE-OUTS, you can get a DSD direct path, bypassing all DSP, converted by the output Caps/Filter to Analog.  

ESS again simply does not have this feature. 

I have always admired RME for their excellent manuals with tech explanations.  I am looking forward to have a look at the 'Native DSD Bypass' on the new ESS version.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

TK33 said:


> If you mean a new successor to the ADI-2 DAC FS, then I doubt a new version is coming anytime soon.  RME confirmed this on another forum earlier this week.  Exact words were:
> 
> "No change planned for the forseeable future."


I just demo'd a Holo Spring and May today, and was able to compare with my RME. With all the audio tinkering options on the RME, I was about to get a sound very close to the Spring. With the May, it was better but hard to see it being 5k more than the RME. I was frankly surprised there wasn't a bigger change. I might get to home demo in a couple months to test for longer.


----------



## emilsoft (Jun 28, 2022)

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I just demo'd a Holo Spring and May today, and was able to compare with my RME. With all the audio tinkering options on the RME, I was about to get a sound very close to the Spring. With the May, it was better but hard to see it being 5k more than the RME. I was frankly surprised there wasn't a bigger change. I might get to home demo in a couple months to test for longer.



The RME simply can't fix some things with EQ..  over time the Holo Spring will show you the way, what at first sounds like 10% difference over longer listening period it can  turn to 50% - the RME can't quite get rid of ringing in the treble region - not a frequency response problem, but certain excitement/highlight of treble notes in contrast to a slightly diffuse and soft mid making them sound prominent (and at times annoying).. the ringing might be a time domain issue, or who knows what - it's past your typical measuring gear that can highlight the problem (we still have some way to go for our measurement gear to match the complexity and refinement of human ears) - it's easily discernible as kind of crystalline/glassy effect vs other DACs (even other delta sigma like Apogee Element which somehow manage to suppress that ringing).

I like the RME but I feel like there is something that's holding it back,  like op amps doing something to the treble, i've got no clue but I can hear it and in contrast to it's other qualities it's a tad annoying.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

emilsoft said:


> The RME simply can't fix some things with EQ..  over time the Holo Spring will show you the way, what at first sounds like 10% difference over longer listening period it can  turn to 50% - the RME can't quite get rid of ringing in the treble region - not a frequency response problem, but certain excitement/highlight of treble notes in contrast to a slightly diffuse and soft mid making them sound prominent (and at times annoying).. the ringing might be a time domain issue, or who knows what - it's past your typical measuring gear that can highlight the problem (we still have some way to go for our measurement gear to match the complexity and refinement of human ears) - it's easily discernible as kind of crystalline/glassy effect vs other DACs (even other delta sigma like Apogee Element which somehow manage to suppress that ringing).
> 
> I like the RME but I feel like there is something that's holding it back,  like op amps doing something to the treble, i've got no clue but I can hear it and in contrast to it's other qualities it's a tad annoying.


I don't disagree with any of this, though I cannot respond about the Holos as in-depth as you. I don't say the EQ fixes everything, more that the near-limitless options gets me to a joyful music experience--being able to set up multiple EQ settings along with all the other goodies the RME offers, individually for each ear--it's a joy for me that is not based on having the very best DAC. I'm trading some benefits for others, for me it's a good trade-off for now.

I'm getting GR external power supplies for my Node and RME, and I'm hopeful that in doing so, my audio journey will be on happy hold for awhile.


----------



## Slaphead

emilsoft said:


> it's past your typical measuring gear that can highlight the problem (we still have some way to go for our measurement gear to match the complexity and refinement of human ears)


I personally would rely on measurement gear to tell me the raw truth. The reason is that sometimes everything sounds wonderful to me, and at other times everything sounds just meh.

Your mood, level of fatigue, how much you've drunk, etc, all lead to a different listening experience.

I enjoy HiFi, but I'm a fallible person like everybody else, and it's unwise to completely trust your senses to assess objective quality.


----------



## ethanc

Does anyone else have a noticeable very high pitched whine/buzz from the LCD screen? It is highest pitch/least noticeable at 100% brightness (probs 15kHz+), and get's lower pitched and more noticeable on lower brightness. I think there are also a few threads on the RME forum about this issue, with no conclusive fix. I am sensitive to high frequency whines, am thinking about returning it. Otherwise would be forced to use dark mode permanently.


----------



## emilsoft (Jun 29, 2022)

Slaphead said:


> I personally would rely on measurement gear to tell me the raw truth. The reason is that sometimes everything sounds wonderful to me, and at other times everything sounds just meh.
> 
> Your mood, level of fatigue, how much you've drunk, etc, all lead to a different listening experience.
> 
> I enjoy HiFi, but I'm a fallible person like everybody else, and it's unwise to completely trust your senses to assess objective quality.


oh yes absolutely, measurements are super important (especially for headphones). However the level of measurement science we have right now is not good enough to highlight why two excellent measuring, low distortion DACs can sound quite different.. R2R vs delta sigma vs fpga Chord - all can sound quite different. Even Apogee Element vs RME ADI are not alike but both measure very similarly with blind listening side by side. Chord always spout time domain stuff which is difficult to measure as being very important, I don't know if this is correct but I can tell you their Qutest sounded different to the RME. Our ears are highly specialised instruments, we have to use both measurements+ears (in the most controlled manner we can manage).


----------



## dougq

ethanc said:


> Does anyone else have a noticeable very high pitched whine/buzz from the LCD screen? It is highest pitch/least noticeable at 100% brightness (probs 15kHz+), and get's lower pitched and more noticeable on lower brightness. I think there are also a few threads on the RME forum about this issue, with no conclusive fix. I am sensitive to high frequency whines, am thinking about returning it. Otherwise would be forced to use dark mode permanently.


Nope.


emilsoft said:


> oh yes absolutely, measurements are super important (especially for headphones). However the level of measurement science we have right now is not good enough to highlight why two excellent measuring, low distortion DACs can sound quite different.. R2R vs delta sigma vs fpga Chord - all can sound quite different. Even Apogee Element vs RME ADI are not alike but both measure very similarly with blind listening side by side. Chord always spout time domain stuff which is difficult to measure as being very important, I don't know if this is correct but I can tell you their Qutest sounded different to the RME. Our ears are highly specialised instruments, we have to use both measurements+ears (in the most controlled manner we can manage).


 So you have a source of any actual blind testing? From my understanding most would not hear the distance. I could not personally


----------



## Dogmatrix

dougq said:


> Nope.
> 
> So you have a source of any actual blind testing? From my understanding most would not hear the distance. I could not personally


Indeed
What we commonly refer to here as a blind test is really an unsighted comparison a blind test requires the participants to be unaware of the test purpose
Manufacturers could easily compose true blind tests and I am certain that if they thought they would benefit from it they would 
Yet they do not


----------



## evhvis

emilsoft said:


> The RME simply can't fix some things with EQ..  over time the Holo Spring will show you the way, what at first sounds like 10% difference over longer listening period it can  turn to 50% - the RME can't quite get rid of ringing in the treble region - not a frequency response problem, but certain excitement/highlight of treble notes in contrast to a slightly diffuse and soft mid making them sound prominent (and at times annoying).. the ringing might be a time domain issue, or who knows what - it's past your typical measuring gear that can highlight the problem (we still have some way to go for our measurement gear to match the complexity and refinement of human ears) - it's easily discernible as kind of crystalline/glassy effect vs other DACs (even other delta sigma like Apogee Element which somehow manage to suppress that ringing).
> 
> I like the RME but I feel like there is something that's holding it back,  like op amps doing something to the treble, i've got no clue but I can hear it and in contrast to it's other qualities it's a tad annoying.


Have you tried all the different filters? They impact both the time domain and frequency response and there are noticeable differences between them, especially in the midrange and treble.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ethanc said:


> Does anyone else have a noticeable very high pitched whine/buzz from the LCD screen? It is highest pitch/least noticeable at 100% brightness (probs 15kHz+), and get's lower pitched and more noticeable on lower brightness. I think there are also a few threads on the RME forum about this issue, with no conclusive fix. I am sensitive to high frequency whines, am thinking about returning it. Otherwise would be forced to use dark mode permanently.



I have not, but that would be hugely annoying to me also. I do use dark mode, because OLED screens can burn in.


----------



## emilsoft

evhvis said:


> Have you tried all the different filters? They impact both the time domain and frequency response and there are noticeable differences between them, especially in the midrange and treble.



None of the filters impact the slightly crystalline quality to the treble. Perhaps NOS might be slightly warmer but it could also be placebo as the difference seems very small to my ears


----------



## PrestonSturgesEnthusiast

Hi everyone

I’ve bought the RME and I‘m considering giving the 5 band EQ a try before purchasing a Roon subscription.

Do you guys hava any suggestions on profiles? I’m pairing it with the lcd5 and the Oor + Hypsos.


----------



## ethanc (Jun 29, 2022)

PrestonSturgesEnthusiast said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> I’ve bought the RME and I‘m considering giving the 5 band EQ a try before purchasing a Roon subscription.
> 
> Do you guys hava any suggestions on profiles? I’m pairing it with the lcd5 and the Oor + Hypsos.


There's the Oratory RME preset (which for some reason isn't on the RME wiki post but someone else posted it), but I was able to get a closer EQ curve to the APO values myself:


----------



## PrestonSturgesEnthusiast

ethanc said:


> There's the Oratory RME preset (which for some reason isn't on the RME wiki post but someone else posted it), but I was able to get a closer EQ curve to the APO values myself.


apologies for the extremely dumb question, but can I implement this using only the RME? (yeah, I have never EQed before). 

thank you for the answer.


----------



## ethanc (Jun 29, 2022)

PrestonSturgesEnthusiast said:


> apologies for the extremely dumb question, but can I implement this using only the RME? (yeah, I have never EQed before).
> 
> thank you for the answer.


Yep, the RME supports 5 bands, plus another bass shelf and treble shelf. You may just need to take some time to get familiar with the controls to adjust all the values correctly on the unit. So for my values, the middle 5 are the 5 bands, and the outer are the shelves. The 600hz would need to go as band 1, it's out of order in the config. For Oratory, the first 5 are the 5 bands, and 7 and 8 are the B and T shelves. Be sure to enable store B/T to EQ on the unit.


----------



## PrestonSturgesEnthusiast

ethanc said:


> Yep, the RME supports 5 bands, plus another bass shelf and treble shelf. You may just need to take some time to get familiar with the controls to adjust all the values correctly on the unit. So for my values, the middle 5 are the 5 bands, and the outer are the shelves. The 600hz would need to go as band 1, it's out of order in the config. For Oratory, the first 5 are the 5 bands, and 7 and 8 are the B and T shelves. Be sure to enable store B/T to EQ on the unit.


Thank you very, very much.


----------



## Krekmate

If you need the full index as well down the line here's that: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets

Here are the RME specific presets too: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets_rme_adi-2


----------



## ethanc

Krekmate said:


> If you need the full index as well down the line here's that: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets
> 
> Here are the RME specific presets too: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets_rme_adi-2


The LCD 5 RME preset isn’t in the wiki for some reason. I happened to have gotten it from someone else who posted it who found it randomly


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

Krekmate said:


> If you need the full index as well down the line here's that: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets
> 
> Here are the RME specific presets too: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets_rme_adi-2


I wonder whether/when RME presets for the x9000s will be posted...I'm experimenting with mine daily!


----------



## arielext

gimmeheadroom said:


> I have not, but that would be hugely annoying to me also. I do use dark mode, because OLED screens can burn in.


ADI-2 uses an IPS panel not OLED.
From the manual


> A high resolution IPS panel for the graphical operation surface eases operation even more


----------



## gimmeheadroom

arielext said:


> ADI-2 uses an IPS panel not OLED.
> From the manual



You mean for years I've been missing out on the display for no good reason?!


----------



## arielext

gimmeheadroom said:


> You mean for years I've been missing out on the display for no good reason?!


hat to break it to you


----------



## gimmeheadroom

arielext said:


> hat to break it to you


No, I hat to break it to you


----------



## Krekmate

ethanc said:


> The LCD 5 RME preset isn’t in the wiki for some reason. I happened to have gotten it from someone else who posted it who found it randomly


Hopefully it'll also be included the next time the index is fully updated; it's been a several months now


----------



## Krekmate (Jul 1, 2022)

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I wonder whether/when RME presets for the x9000s will be posted...I'm experimenting with mine daily!


Might be able to get a preset sooner if you're able to ask during one of the weekly threads: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/

Might get lucky and oratory1990 will decide to make one ad-hoc for you


----------



## GoodRevrnd

TK33 said:


> If you mean a new successor to the ADI-2 DAC FS, then I doubt a new version is coming anytime soon.  RME confirmed this on another forum earlier this week.  Exact words were:
> 
> "No change planned for the forseeable future."


You think they might keep the model but revert to AKM chips?  Seems a hair odd they're trying to blow out inventory on this thing.


----------



## Matias

AKM versus ESS versions measurements compared below.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...us-ess-measurements-dac-preamp-headamp.35377/


----------



## Another Audiophile

Matias said:


> AKM versus ESS versions measurements compared below.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...us-ess-measurements-dac-preamp-headamp.35377/


And what’s your take on these measurements?


----------



## Matias

Another Audiophile said:


> And what’s your take on these measurements?


Although I never heard the ESS version, it is so similar to the AKM v2 version that they should sound the same.


----------



## GoodRevrnd (Jul 1, 2022)

Matias said:


> AKM versus ESS versions measurements compared below.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...us-ess-measurements-dac-preamp-headamp.35377/


Found this later last night after searching.  Difference seems generally irrelevant.  The small rise past 15k on ESS curious though.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Wait until you hit 40, you won't hear it


----------



## GoodRevrnd

gimmeheadroom said:


> Wait until you hit 40, you won't hear it


Well, a month to go.  I'm still good to a hair over 17k.  Which yikes, I could still hit maybe 19ish less than a year ago.  :X


----------



## Slaphead

GoodRevrnd said:


> Well, a month to go.  I'm still good to a hair over 17k.  Which yikes, I could still hit maybe 19ish less than a year ago.  :X


Yep, it goes down rapidly now, but don't worry as you're not going to find much in music that goes much beyond 4k. Beyond that you simply have harmonics which can add to the air of the sound. However, frequency loss is slow and your brain adapts so the only way you'll notice is suddenly realising that whatever was hissing slightly annoyingly isn't anymore, or you do another frequency test with your ears.


----------



## phiemon

Which sounds better between the RME ADI-2 DAC FS (ESS version) and the RME ADI-2 Pro FS R?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Any audible difference(s) will be based on the better amp in the Pro version and/or imagination. What you get with the Pro is not necessarily better sound, but rather better connectivity and an ADC.


----------



## Sproketz (Jul 3, 2022)

Got this a few days ago. Got to learn nearly every feature in it. My god this is a magical device.

I'm convinced that people who say this "sounds thin" or "is too analytical" simply didn't take the time to get to know the device and dial it in. It literally can sound however you like. After dialing everything to perfection for my ears, it sounds full, robust, musical, and grin inducing.


EQ: Not warm enough? Warm it. Too bright? Dim it. Not punchy enough? Punch it. Coming from Peace/APO's variable band EQ, I was wary of a 5 band EQ. Well I just uninstalled Peace/APO. I have plenty of customization here. In actuality it's just easier to tune in the sound I want with less bands. I even get split EQ so I can fix the slight treble hearing deficiency I have in my right ear.


Loudness: This feature is underrated. I get to control the gain, frequency and Q of my B/T loudness corners? I can set when loudness should melt away into nothing? This feature works exactly as I want it to and it just makes everything sound right at whatever volume I'm listening. Taking the time to use it properly is worth every moment. If you don't like the loudness feature because it's "too aggressive" then you didn't configure it to your liking. It's as subtle or aggressive as you make it.


B/T knobs: Again, brilliant. Their corner frequency Q get used for loudness, so you can do spot changes easily after setting your preferred EQ and loudness levels.


Source specific settings for everything with auto-switching? Now I just feel spoiled.


Crossfeed for listening to those 60s tracks when hard pans were a thing. My ears thank you RME.


Slow filter to take the brightness down just a hair. I'm digging it.


The paint on the metal casing is NOT a fingerprint magnet. It's so rare these days that a company actually thinks about fingerprints on a device that is meant to be touched.

What are the cons? Nitpicking mostly.

Would be nice to have a balanced 2.5, 4.4 or XLR headphone out. I don't really _need _it right now, but maybe I will _want _it one day?


More visualizer colors because green, cyan, amber, monochrome, red and orange aren't enough? Could we get full spectrum support? I jest, but actually that would be cool.


Put some lead in it to make it a bit more heavy so it doesn't move around when you press buttons. I guess I can get some stick on lead strips for the underside and do that myself.


More wattage to future proof it? Sure why not.


A PC app that gives you full control of the device with an easier to use UI would be cool. In all honesty I figured out 80% of the UI without opening the manual. It's not that hard to use aside from the EQ taking some getting used to.

@gimmeheadroom props to you for giving me advice on this unit. I'm pretty smitten with it.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Rock and roll! For your cans, this looks like the perfect DAC


----------



## G8torbyte

@Sproketz  Congrats on getting the RME.   Glad you appreciate the multi-functionality and all the engineering that goes into this nice desktop unit.  I'll admit I was a bit overwhelmed with all the menus but the guide book is good.  Even 5 years later I'm still learning more about the options.  Also I appreciate RME tweaking and improving on the firmware on a regular basis.  Most retailers are dropping the price by $300 so for those considering it could be a good time to try it out.


----------



## Sproketz (Jul 5, 2022)

G8torbyte said:


> @Sproketz  Congrats on getting the RME.   Glad you appreciate the multi-functionality and all the engineering that goes into this nice desktop unit.  I'll admit I was a bit overwhelmed with all the menus but the guide book is good.  Even 5 years later I'm still learning more about the options.  Also I appreciate RME tweaking and improving on the firmware on a regular basis.  Most retailers are dropping the price by $300 so for those considering it could be a good time to try it out.



Thanks! I like to tinker and tweak stuff, so I'm in gadget heaven. What is most impressive is how high quality each feature is. One would be forgiven for thinking that with so many features they must have had to cut corners somewhere. This is not the case. It's a piece of pro equipment with each feature executed in a high quality manner.  It's a steal for the price.

I did grab the latest firmware, and noticed they removed the 6dB limit on bass and treble knobs and added more colors to the visualizer. I'm sure there were a lot more tweaks but those jumped out at me without reading any patch notes.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Yeah, although this is not their most expensive product, it is a flagship and Matthias does a huge amount of work on it.


----------



## sahyle3

Sproketz said:


> Got this a few days ago. Got to learn nearly every feature in it. My god this is a magical device.
> 
> I'm convinced that people who say this "sounds thin" or "is too analytical" simply didn't take the time to get to know the device and dial it in. It literally can sound however you like. After dialing everything to perfection for my ears, it sounds full, robust, musical, and grin inducing.
> 
> ...


Can the RME adequately drive the Aryas? It seems like some people on this site are suggesting that even though the RME can generate enough volume, an external amp is needed to be able to drive the Aryas to full potential. How are the D9200s compared to the Aryas coming out of the RME?


----------



## dougq

sahyle3 said:


> Can the RME adequately drive the Aryas? It seems like some people on this site are suggesting that even though the RME can generate enough volume, an external amp is needed to be able to drive the Aryas to full potential. How are the D9200s compared to the Aryas coming out of the RME?


Yes. There may be some very minor differences but you are getting everything out of they aryas with the rme. You can use the peq to make it warmer or brighter.

I have not heard the d9200 but I do listen to the dcs stealth and they drove them equally as well as any 1000 dollar dedicated amp I heard.  They are very good at driving planars that need a lot of current.


----------



## Sproketz (Jul 10, 2022)

sahyle3 said:


> Can the RME adequately drive the Aryas? It seems like some people on this site are suggesting that even though the RME can generate enough volume, an external amp is needed to be able to drive the Aryas to full potential. How are the D9200s compared to the Aryas coming out of the RME?



I'm going to go with yes, until someone can objectively or scientifically explain why the ADI-2 is unable to drive the Arya. It sounds fully driven to me, with no distortion.

I have had people tell me that I needed a 7 watt amp to drive the D9200 to "control the bass" better. To put that in perspective, you can drive the D9200 with no amp at all from just about any phone, and even a PlayStation controller. It seems that some people believe that unless you have 6-7 watts on tap with 95% headroom, somehow you aren't driving your headphones with enough power. I'm inclined to think some kind of muscle car minded psychoacoustics are at play, driven by industry marketing that is desperate to make you feel insecure about spending anything short of ALL of your money.

Matthais Carstens from RME works directly on it and states there is enough power to drive 300ohm loads beyond necessity. He knows more about audio than I ever will. I've also seen plenty of posts with people who have the ADI-2 and other powerful amps to hook to such as the Jot2, Monoprice THX amps, etc. and they can't hear a difference, with Arya and harder to drive headphones.

I think this thread speaks well to what is going on here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths.486598/

If I'm wrong, I really, really want someone to show me the science of why I'm wrong, with something more than just "the bass sounds tighter to my ear."  Some ABX testing, or scientific analysis of frequency output. I'll take anything that isn't snake oil. Until then, I'll be plugging my Arya and D9200 into my ADI-2 and happily listening in bliss.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I don't agree that the RME drives 300 Sennheisers beyond necessity. I would say they don't drive them even up to necessity. The HD 600 and 800 scale well beyond what the RME is capable of.

I don't know anything about the Aryas but I do know the D9200 doesn't need 7 watts. That whole family of Foster-cans are among the easiest cans to drive well.

The RME is pure killer with TH900mk2, LCD-2C etc.


----------



## Sproketz

For context the Arya Stealth is a 32ohm load with 94dB sensitivity.


----------



## dougq

Regarding 300ohm headphones like the HD800 series it will absolutely drive them the full range.  Some people "prefer" them out of higher impedance amps for a slightly different sounding frequency response. One way is not correct versus the others.  The RME will drive them to the absolute fullest of their capabilities. Someone might just prefer the signature out of a higher impedance amp on those type of headphones.  People think one is correct versus the other, both are just preferences.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

On paper I don't see a problem. And, I have noticed that unlike high impedance dynamics, which present a complex load and can sound very different with enough good power vs. not enough power, it seems planars mostly don't change sound quality based on not enough good power. They usually just don't get loud enough. If you're happy with how they sound, then done.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Sproketz said:


> I'm going to go with yes, until someone can objectively or scientifically explain why the ADI-2 is unable to drive the Arya. It sounds fully driven to me, with no distortion.
> 
> I have had people tell me that I needed a 7 watt amp to drive the D9200 to "control the bass" better. To put that in perspective, you can drive the D9200 with no amp at all from just about any phone, and even a PlayStation controller. It seems that some people believe that unless you have 6-7 watts on tap with 95% headroom, somehow you aren't driving your headphones with enough power. I'm inclined to think some kind of muscle car minded psychoacoustics are at play, driven by industry marketing that is desperate to make you feel insecure about spending anything short of ALL of your money.
> 
> ...


I would say your muscle car assertion is on the money 
Exploring the technical parameters of op-amp vs discrete transistor reveals a discrete design to match the RME unit would require sixty transistors for equivalent gain and yield higher noise and distortion levels its only benefit would be heat dissipation .
A sad indictment to the lack of technical understanding in the community


----------



## ChildOfDust

Just got the ADI-2 yesterday and I'm absolutely loving it!  

I mentioned this in another thread but thought I'd post here to see if anyone had a similar experience.  
I updated the firmware from the rme site and after doing so part of the frequency range was absent. Like in one song the background male vocals I can normally hear were completely absent. I tried with my iem's and it was fine, it only seemed to affect the 1/4 headphone jack. 
I did a factory reset and all is good again. Looking in the menu on the unit under SW version it says 51 06/2022 now. 
I got the original version with the AKM chip and I wondered if the update might only be for the new ESS chip models, but I thought it said for the AKM chip as well. 

Also I was wondering if there is a way to change the visualizer or equalizer from the black bg to white. I see pictures in the manual of them in white, but I don't see any option in the settings or manual to change this.  I tried changing the dark mode to light but that only seems to affect the menu backgrounds.


----------



## phiemon

Is there anyone who  uses the RME also for gaming and can tell me what the audio latency is like? Are there any audio delays compared to the onboard sound for example?


----------



## jamca

Matias said:


> AKM versus ESS versions measurements compared below.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...us-ess-measurements-dac-preamp-headamp.35377/


It is a nice comparison, but there should be another one with the two types of ESS version, the one with the cable patch and one without it (with the fixed pcb). Unfortunately in the early models of ESS version RME did a patch with a soldered cable in order to keep up with the production of adi2 and after many units where produced they managed to have ready the correct pcb board without the patch. So there are two models of ESS version... There has been a discusion at asr forum and the official RME forum with MC but both topics where mysteriously CLOSED... so the conclusions are yours...Adi 2 fs is a great product, but RME should be more transparent with this issue and give some official replies and not close the threads they want to hide....


----------



## ok computer

phiemon said:


> Is there anyone who  uses the RME also for gaming and can tell me what the audio latency is like? Are there any audio delays compared to the onboard sound for example?


Rme is known in the pro audio community for having the best, most stable, lowest latency drivers around.  You can not find a lower latency dac/amp.  Minimum you can set the buffer to is 32 samples.


----------



## Sproketz

phiemon said:


> Is there anyone who  uses the RME also for gaming and can tell me what the audio latency is like? Are there any audio delays compared to the onboard sound for example?


I do. There's no latency.


----------



## evhvis

phiemon said:


> Is there anyone who  uses the RME also for gaming and can tell me what the audio latency is like? Are there any audio delays compared to the onboard sound for example?


Not really any noticeable delay, but I do use optical instead of USB to avoid noise transfer and sample rate issues. The RME driver only has automatic sample rate changes when using ASIO so it is better to use optical or coaxial for applications that do not use ASIO. 

I have used USB for gaming a bit and with a 512 buffer and one SD filters doesn't cause issues with fast paced gaming, For slow paced or casual gaming you are fine with a 1024 buffer and any of the filters.


----------



## phiemon (Jul 24, 2022)

ok computer said:


> Rme is known in the pro audio community for having the best, most stable, lowest latency drivers around.  You can not find a lower latency dac/amp.  Minimum you can set the buffer to is 32 samples.





Sproketz said:


> I do. There's no latency.





evhvis said:


> Not really any noticeable delay, but I do use optical instead of USB to avoid noise transfer and sample rate issues. The RME driver only has automatic sample rate changes when using ASIO so it is better to use optical or coaxial for applications that do not use ASIO.
> 
> I have used USB for gaming a bit and with a 512 buffer and one SD filters doesn't cause issues with fast paced gaming, For slow paced or casual gaming you are fine with a 1024 buffer and any of the filters.



Thank you very much for the reply. This helps me a lot!

Another question: which sounds better between the RME ADI-2 DAC FS (ESS version) and the RME ADI-2 Pro FS R? EDIT: I will wait for the RME ADI-2/4 PRO SE DAC with a 4,4mm balanced output.


----------



## Another Audiophile

New power supplies from RME coming sometime in September. Not confirmed yet


----------



## Another Audiophile

And the upcoming 4.4 which will not be replacing the existing models


----------



## ok computer

Is the new power supply supposed to improve performance or is it battery powered for portability?  RME swore up and down that upgrading power supplies was a waste of money lol.


----------



## Deceneu808

ok computer said:


> Is the new power supply supposed to improve performance or is it battery powered for portability?  RME swore up and down that upgrading power supplies was a waste of money lol.


Also curious about this. They said a better power supply won't make a difference. What does this bring to the table ?


----------



## emilsoft

Deceneu808 said:


> Also curious about this. They said a better power supply won't make a difference. What does this bring to the table ?


RME doesn't accept that a different power supply can make an improvement to their existing ADI-2, they are just providing linear powersupply for anyone who "thinks" it might bring improvements. So, in a way it's like saying; we believe it brings zero benefits, but if you want to get one anyway and pay us some cash then we'll happily sell you one


----------



## emilsoft

I've been comparing the new Macbook Pro 14 headphone out with the ADI-2 and it shockingly comes close (with HD800S and some other IEMs)... Apple have done a stellar job; it'll replace most fancy dongles out there easily..  Only my R2R dac sounds different enough, but between the delta sigma DAC I have it'll happily compete with most of them, even the RME! (when it comes to sound quality specifically, but ofcourse RME is a little more resolving and technical, but we're talking few percent here)


----------



## Another Audiophile

ok computer said:


> Is the new power supply supposed to improve performance or is it battery powered for portability?  RME swore up and down that upgrading power supplies was a waste of money lol.


Is not a battery power. It's a proper linear power supply. Will be universal across all 3 models.


----------



## Another Audiophile

BTW. I tried the linear power supply with the new 4.4 balanced RME which will be on top of the day fs and the pro. Well, couldn't hear any difference. All did the same job so probably will be down to use case, functionality, connectivity etc.


----------



## phiemon

Any news about the release date of the new RME DAC?


----------



## Sproketz

Another Audiophile said:


> And the upcoming 4.4 which will not be replacing the existing models


Wonder how many watts the balanced output will give.


----------



## Another Audiophile

Sproketz said:


> Wonder how many watts the balanced output will give.


3.5w


----------



## Deceneu808

How does one stack the DAC with the power supply ? They seem, different


----------



## skhan007

Deceneu808 said:


> How does one stack the DAC with the power supply ? They seem, different


In my experience, it’s best to keep the power supply some distance away, to avoid any noise or interference.


----------



## 04gto

skhan007 said:


> In my experience, it’s best to keep the power supply some distance away, to avoid any noise or interference.


+1.  I like to keep external power supplies some distance away to avoid any issues. Preferably at the store where they _tried_ to sell them to me.


----------



## skhan007

04gto said:


> +1.  I like to keep external power supplies some distance away to avoid any issues. Preferably at the store where they _tried_ to sell them to me.


Lol! You mean you didn’t buy the Shunyata Everest like the rest of us did? Such a bargain at $9K.

https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/power-conditioner/shunyata-everest-8000-power-conditioner/


----------



## jamca

Hope RME have enough time so they will not have to hand solder weird cables for unprepared pcbs as they did with the ESS version


----------



## 04gto

skhan007 said:


> Lol! You mean you didn’t buy the Shunyata Everest like the rest of us did? Such a bargain at $9K.
> 
> https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/power-conditioner/shunyata-everest-8000-power-conditioner/


I was seriously considering it, but it did not come in gold. lol


----------



## fanteskiller

Hope RME have enough time so they will not have to hand solder weird cables for unprepared pcbs as they did with the ESS version


----------



## David A Silva

skhan007 said:


> Lol! You mean you didn’t buy the Shunyata Everest like the rest of us did? Such a bargain at $9K.
> 
> https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/power-conditioner/shunyata-everest-8000-power-conditioner/


Yikes!!!! That's a serious piece of scamification!


----------



## CaptainFantastic

emilsoft said:


> RME doesn't accept that a different power supply can make an improvement to their existing ADI-2, they are just providing linear powersupply for anyone who "thinks" it might bring improvements. So, in a way it's like saying; we believe it brings zero benefits, but if you want to get one anyway and pay us some cash then we'll happily sell you one



That is truly strange.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> That is truly strange.


----------



## Another Audiophile

CaptainFantastic said:


> That is truly strange.


From a business perspective and if many are asking about batteries and linear power supplies then why not offering a proper power supply for those who are interested. Demand and supply


----------



## phiemon (Aug 3, 2022)

Should I use the USB or Toslink connection for my PC-Desktop in order to achieve the best audio quality (@ 24bit/48Hz) and latency?


----------



## dougq

I could not hear a difference so I would recommend whatever is the most convenient.


----------



## phiemon

Two other different questions:

1. Any news about the release date of the RME ADI-2/4 PRO SE DAC?

2. Any comparison between the ADI-2 DAC FS and the Hugo 2?

Unfortunatelly I cannot find an answer.


----------



## skhan007

^^^Definitely interested in question #2 above. Perhaps owners on the Hugo 2 thread may know?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

phiemon said:


> Two other different questions:
> 
> 1. Any news about the release date of the RME ADI-2/4 PRO SE DAC?
> 
> ...



Re #2, I can only provide a few words as I am not skilled at comparisons and don't do much A/B-ing. The H2 is superior to the ADI-2. Both as a DAC coupled with a tube amp and as standalones. It's a more engaging sound and I think in part it has to do with how instruments carry all of their detail. For example, a bass string that on the ADI-2 becomes inaudible after a second, on the H2 it will have that decreasing volume fade away more naturally.

But the ADI-2 is easier to use as a desktop unit and has more features. I am sure most owners of these two can describe the differences better than I just did, but there's a start... but I think few would disagree that for sound alone, the H2 is indeed a level above the ADI-2.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

phiemon said:


> Should I use the USB or Toslink connection for my PC-Desktop in order to achieve the best audio quality (@ 24bit/48Hz) and latency?


USB is faster than anything except maybe IIS (I2S). Other interfaces can be less noisy.


----------



## phiemon

gimmeheadroom said:


> USB is faster than anything except maybe IIS (I2S). Other interfaces can be less noisy.



With the Hugo 2 and TT, Toslink is faster than USB and the audio quality is also better, which is why I asked. I thought it was the same for the ADI-2.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

phiemon said:


> With the Hugo 2 and TT, Toslink is faster than USB and the audio quality is also better, which is why I asked. I thought it was the same for the ADI-2.



Not sure what you mean, but S/PDIF is never faster than USB on any device in the last decade or so. USB has huge bandwidth, toslink specification calls for 24/96, USB can do DSD512, video etc. There is no room for opinions on this.

If Toslink sounds better on your devices it is not because of speed, it's because of some other reason(s).


----------



## phiemon (Aug 4, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Not sure what you mean, but S/PDIF is never faster than USB on any device in the last decade or so. USB has huge bandwidth, toslink specification calls for 24/96, USB can do DSD512, video etc. There is no room for opinions on this.
> 
> If Toslink sounds better on your devices it is not because of speed, it's because of some other reason(s).



I have no idea, it is a known fact in the forum of the Hugo 2 and TT2.

Other two questions:

1. With installed USB drivers I cannot select 32 bit, only 16 bit or 24 bit. What can I do for the 32 bit?

2. If I set "Mute Line" to "OFF", I have the option to set "Hi-Power" on Phones. This makes the volume louder with the headphones. I mean: The same volume is with Mute Line active/Hi-Power not active "-25", but with Mute Line not active / Hi-Power active about "-48". What is correct now? Why can't I activate "Hi-Power" when "Mute Line" is off and "Auto Ref Level" is on?


----------



## dougq

phiemon said:


> I have no idea, it is a known fact in the forum of the Hugo 2 and TT2.
> 
> Other two questions:
> 
> ...


I recommend going through the manual. There is virtually no reason to turn on hi power. With auto ref it will give you full dynamic range at the given listening level. You will hear it click into hi power mode when you turn the volume up enough.


----------



## evhvis

gimmeheadroom said:


> Not sure what you mean, but S/PDIF is never faster than USB on any device in the last decade or so. USB has huge bandwidth, toslink specification calls for 24/96, USB can do DSD512, video etc. There is no room for opinions on this.
> 
> If Toslink sounds better on your devices it is not because of speed, it's because of some other reason(s).


Higher bandwidth doesn't mean it has lower latency. It will depend on the implementation and USB will always have a buffer which causes latency. E.g. with a 1024 sample buffer you will have a minimum of 21.3ms latency for USB at 48khz but there may be additional buffering for jitter rejection, filters etc. in the DAC. S/PDIF is a synchronous  stream without buffering in the transfer but there may be buffering on each end. The only way to know for sure which solution has lower latency is to either measure the latency on the different inputs from the source that will be used.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

evhvis said:


> Higher bandwidth doesn't mean it has lower latency. It will depend on the implementation and USB will always have a buffer which causes latency. E.g. with a 1024 sample buffer you will have a minimum of 21.3ms latency for USB at 48khz but there may be additional buffering for jitter rejection, filters etc. in the DAC. S/PDIF is a synchronous  stream without buffering in the transfer but there may be buffering on each end. The only way to know for sure which solution has lower latency is to either measure the latency on the different inputs from the source that will be used.



I agree with you, I was speaking only to the bandwidth issue. But, latency is not audible (as long as it does not change dynamically) and doesn't matter unless you're syncing video or other audio tracks. Could be that Chord just doesn't have a good USB interface, does not reject noise, etc. Some have said the reason the MScaler helps so much with Chord gear is the better USB interface.

Anyway, great post!


----------



## technobear (Aug 5, 2022)

phiemon said:


> Two other different questions:
> 
> 1. Any news about the release date of the RME ADI-2/4 PRO SE DAC?
> 
> ...


I did hear the release date at Canjam London but I can't remember it. I'm sure it's very soon but I can't find it at any dealers yet. I didn't listen to it.

As for the Hugo2, since no-one else has chimed in, I was led to try Hugo2 because of dissatisfaction with the sound from the ADI2-DAC (and the iFi Audio iDAC2). I have owned and used all three together for two years now. The ADI2-DAC has a couple of flaws to my ears. The first is the soundstage which is rather 2-dimensional. It is wide but doesn't have much height and has very little depth to it. The Hugo2 puts the stage in a sphere around your head with better height and much better depth. The second flaw occurs whenever the recording contains any harshness, squeal, screech, sqawk, metallic sheen or undue sibilance. The ADI2-DAC makes it worse and is fatiguing to listen to for those tracks. It makes me want to turn it down or listen to something else. The Hugo2 is far more refined. It doesn't add distortion of its own to what is already distorted. It just sounds natural and unfatiguing because it is far more accurate in time than the RME. You can still hear the flaws in those recordings. They are just not thrown at you in an unpleasant way.

The best I can describe it is that when I first got the Hugo2, I found myself tensing and flinching for faults I was expecting to hear, only for them not to occur. I quickly learned to stop flinching and tensing and just relax knowing that the Hugo2 was not going to offend my ears. I wrote somewhere else (but can't now find it) that the Hugo2 is what I've been waiting 40 years for digital audio to sound like. The ADI2-DAC is still a good and very versatile piece for it's price, but I'm afraid the Hugo2 plays on an altogether loftier plain and is worth every penny of its asking price. Of course if you already have a headphone amp, you could save some by getting the Qutest.

On the subject of USB, neither ADI2-DAC nor Hugo2 are perfect here. Both can be improved by addition of an iPurifier2/3 (disclaimer: I own a bunch of these, other decrapifiers are available but the iFi ones are very good in my experience). I feed my DACs by optical or coaxial where those options are available.

EDIT: one more thing on latency. The ADI2-DAC has a couple of short delay filters - SD Sharp and SD Slow. Be sure to use those. Personally I use both the ADI2-DAC and Hugo2 on optical with the TV and have never had any lipsync issues.


----------



## Another Audiophile

technobear said:


> I did hear the release date at Canjam London but I can't remember it.


in September


----------



## jamca

technobear said:


> I did hear the release date at Canjam London but I can't remember it. I'm sure it's very soon but I can't find it at any dealers yet. I didn't listen to it.
> 
> As for the Hugo2, since no-one else has chimed in, I was led to try Hugo2 because of dissatisfaction with the sound from the ADI2-DAC (and the iFi Audio iDAC2). I have owned and used all three together for two years now. The ADI2-DAC has a couple of flaws to my ears. The first is the soundstage which is rather 2-dimensional. It is wide but doesn't have much height and has very little depth to it. The Hugo2 puts the stage in a sphere around your head with better height and much better depth. The second flaw occurs whenever the recording contains any harshness, squeal, screech, sqawk, metallic sheen or undue sibilance. The ADI2-DAC makes it worse and is fatiguing to listen to for those tracks. It makes me want to turn it down or listen to something else. The Hugo2 is far more refined. It doesn't add distortion of its own to what is already distorted. It just sounds natural and unfatiguing because it is far more accurate in time than the RME. You can still hear the flaws in those recordings. They are just not thrown at you in an unpleasant way.
> 
> ...


i agree with your conclusions about the rme adi-2 fs soundstage. But it is so versatile that is unbeatable ... never heard hugo2  but even compared to chord mojo it feels less 3d dimensional...


----------



## phiemon

In the meantime, I have had the opportunity to test the Hugo 2 myself and compare it with the ADI-2. Yes, it is true that the Hugo 2 is better overall. However, there is one thing that is an absolute deal-breaker for me: the gaming aspect! The Hugo 2 has strong audio delay (about 60ms as I read somewhere) and in fact it is a bit better via Toslink than via USB. The sound quality is also a bit better via Toslink. Still, there's too much audio delay, whereas the ADI-2 is absolutely direct, I notice no delay at all and no difference compared to the onboard sound - both via USB and Toslink. Since I need the amplifier mainly for gaming, the Hugo 2 is simply out of the question. For gaming, I probably wouldn't notice the better sound anyway.


----------



## Slaphead (Aug 6, 2022)

phiemon said:


> In the meantime, I have had the opportunity to test the Hugo 2 myself and compare it with the ADI-2. Yes, it is true that the Hugo 2 is better overall. However, there is one thing that is an absolute deal-breaker for me: the gaming aspect! The Hugo 2 has strong audio delay (about 60ms as I read somewhere) and in fact it is a bit better via Toslink than via USB. The sound quality is also a bit better via Toslink. Still, there's too much audio delay, whereas the ADI-2 is absolutely direct, I notice no delay at all and no difference compared to the onboard sound - both via USB and Toslink. Since I need the amplifier mainly for gaming, the Hugo 2 is simply out of the question. For gaming, I probably wouldn't notice the better sound anyway.


And there you have the difference in philosophy between HiFi Audio (Chord) and Pro Audio (RME)

Pro Audio needs to perform with minimal latency and deliver accurate sound. HiFi audio just has to sound "euphonic", enjoyable, and portray a convincingly "real-ish" performance to the listener.

This is why my system now comprises purely pro audio components - RME included.

By the way, Chord's USB implementation seems really iffy for some reason, IMO.


----------



## evhvis

Slaphead said:


> And there you have the difference in philosophy between HiFi Audio (Chord) and Pro Audio (RME)
> 
> Pro Audio needs to perform with minimal latency and deliver accurate sound. HiFi audio just has to sound "euphonic", enjoyable, and portray a convincingly "real-ish" performance to the listener.
> 
> ...


The delay is needed due to the longer filters (more samples). The impulse response and sharp roll off from chord filters are probably the best from a technical perspective out of all the DAC solutions on the market, but requires lots of samples and quite a bit of processing power to achieve. The filters on the RME DAC are the ones that come from the factory and all have tradeoffs with either impulse response or frequency response. 

The RME DAC is great as an affordable DAC with headphone amp combo and I love the EQ, but calling it more accurate than chord etc. is just biased.


----------



## jamca

evhvis said:


> The delay is needed due to the longer filters (more samples). The impulse response and sharp roll off from chord filters are probably the best from a technical perspective out of all the DAC solutions on the market, but requires lots of samples and quite a bit of processing power to achieve. The filters on the RME DAC are the ones that come from the factory and all have tradeoffs with either impulse response or frequency response.
> 
> The RME DAC is great as an affordable DAC with headphone amp combo and I love the EQ, but calling it more accurate than chord etc. is just biased.


But what about the measurements of RME that seem to be equal or better than chord' s?


----------



## evhvis (Aug 7, 2022)

jamca said:


> But what about the measurements of RME that seem to be equal or better than chord' s?


Not sure how you can argue that having a few DB better noise floor in some cases with flawed reproduction impulse responses or frequency response makes a DAC more accurate.

If you go through the filters on the RME then you can hear subtle differences in the reproduction of music, e.g. some have more flow to the music in their presentation while others have better timing and fine detail but they all have small tradeoffs.

I don't have a hugo 2 and use the RME ADI 2 DAC FS as my DAC+Headphone amp as it is a small unit with a nice interface that is good enough for my headphone setup and love being able to EQ my headphones. It is a DAC I would recommend at it's price point as it is grain free and overall quite good, but I can easily hear the tradeoffs between the filters.


----------



## jamca

evhvis said:


> Not sure how you can argue that having a few DB better noise floor in some cases with flawed reproduction impulse responses or frequency response makes a DAC more accurate.
> 
> If you go through the filters on the RME then you can hear subtle differences in the reproduction of music, e.g. some have more flow to the music in their presentation while others have better timing and fine detail but they all have small tradeoffs.


Yes i agree but you know...there is an eternal debate about measurements and subjectivism and the great question is one ...the logic that prices are applied. For example Mofi's scandal...many vinyl audiophiles argued to death that "all analogue" chain sounded better from their mofi's records...and now it is proven that they had digital steps during the procedure...This shows that people are willing to pay for what they thing or believe, and not for the objective truth. That is why i lean towards the measurements .... the audiophile industry needs to get a little serious and not mislead the customers.


----------



## evhvis

jamca said:


> Yes i agree but you know...there is an eternal debate about measurements and subjectivism and the great question is one ...the logic that prices are applied. For example Mofi's scandal...many vinyl audiophiles argued to death that "all analogue" chain sounded better from their mofi's records...and now it is proven that they had digital steps during the procedure...This shows that people are willing to pay for what they thing or believe, and not for the objective truth. That is why i lean towards the measurements .... the audiophile industry needs to get a little serious and not mislead the customers.


I feel both measurements and listening is important. The issue with measurements is that most rely on basic measurements of which several was made to make transistor amplifiers, early digital etc. look far better than what they replaced (tubes and vinyl) but only show a little of the total picture. Some audio companies are very measurement oriented and most likely have lots of measurements that are not public knowledge which reveal interesting traits about the equipment. 

My favorite measurement for amplifiers is a square pulse  (which Stereophile does at 10khz) as it says quite a bit about the speed and precision of the amplifier. I have yet to see a perfect square pulse and most are far from it, though a few have come close.


----------



## Slaphead

evhvis said:


> I have yet to see a perfect square pulse and most are far from it, though a few have come close.


You'll never see a perfect square pulse - it's physically impossible. In fact square waves do not exist, at best they could be described as extreme trapezoid waves in terms of what can actually be reproduced (even then they can't actually be reproduced accurately), and how "tight" or "narrow" those trapezoid waves are is highly dependent on the slew rate of the device that's producing them.


----------



## Sandkabir

Can I get eq  preset settings for lcdx 2021 on rme adi-2


----------



## Matias

Sandkabir said:


> Can I get eq  preset settings for lcdx 2021 on rme adi-2




Type​Fc​Q​Gain​Peaking​19 Hz​0.83​3.7 dB​Peaking​238 Hz​0.77​-3.1 dB​Peaking​763 Hz​1.29​-2.7 dB​Peaking​1919 Hz​4.38​1.7 dB​Peaking​3839 Hz​1.82​6.7 dB​

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au...ry1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Audeze LCD-X 2021


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## Sandkabir

Thank you very much 😊


----------



## phiemon (Aug 10, 2022)

Similar question: Has anyone the eq preset settings for HD800S on Rme Adi-2?

EDIT: I found it on that website: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets_rme_adi-2/


----------



## mat.1

HOW ABOUT PRESET FOR LCD 5 ?


----------



## gahan

mat.1 said:


> HOW ABOUT PRESET FOR LCD 5 ?


https://www.dropbox.com/s/hh4uk0zpaoc5bii/Audeze LCD-5 (RME ADI-2).pdf?dl=0


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

I've been lurking on this thread for awhile, and I'm wondering whether any RME ADI owners have (gasp) tried modding the digital to analogue output (to clean up anything in the signal path) or the power supply (i.e. instead of a wall wort, a Kevin Gilmore Golden Reference external PSU). Yes I am aware that mods void the warranty. I love my RME but I'm looking into sprucing it up.


----------



## Matias

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I've been lurking on this thread for awhile, and I'm wondering whether any RME ADI owners have (gasp) tried modding the digital to analogue output (to clean up anything in the signal path) or the power supply (i.e. instead of a wall wort, a Kevin Gilmore Golden Reference external PSU). Yes I am aware that mods void the warranty. I love my RME but I'm looking into sprucing it up.


Changing the power supply is common and easy as there is no permanent modification to the DAC. But modding a surface mounted board... That should be very hard. Plus it already has excellent measurements, not sure what else is there to gain.


----------



## skhan007

I found this for the ZMF Auteur. Very good sounding, but I thought the gain on filter 8 needed to be reduced. 

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au... Auteur Teak/ZMF Auteur Teak ParametricEQ.txt


Preamp: -3.1 dBFilter 1: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain 3.1 dB Q 1.86Filter 2: ON PK Fc 1147 Hz Gain -1.7 dB Q 1.86Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1888 Hz Gain 3.2 dB Q 2.97Filter 4: ON PK Fc 9629 Hz Gain 3.5 dB Q 1.46Filter 5: ON PK Fc 19719 Hz Gain -15.0 dB Q 0.32Filter 6: ON PK Fc 160 Hz Gain -1.0 dB Q 1.35Filter 7: ON PK Fc 3053 Hz Gain -1.8 dB Q 4.26Filter 8: ON PK Fc 3746 Hz Gain 3.8 dB Q 4.22Filter 9: ON PK Fc 5389 Hz Gain -4.4 dB Q 3.72Filter 10: ON PK Fc 6645 Hz Gain 2.0 dB Q 3.36


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## mr_macgee (Aug 13, 2022)

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I've been lurking on this thread for awhile, and I'm wondering whether any RME ADI owners have (gasp) tried modding the digital to analogue output (to clean up anything in the signal path) or the power supply (i.e. instead of a wall wort, a Kevin Gilmore Golden Reference external PSU). Yes I am aware that mods void the warranty. I love my RME but I'm looking into sprucing it up.


This question has been asked countless of times and answered in these threads, the general opinion is that the RME does an amazing job handling the dirty DC coming from the stock switching PS. Some here have tried batteries and pricey linear PS with no discernible improvement.

Having said that, I just finished this evening a long listening session on a system (B&W 801 D4's, Bryston 28B3 mono's in a purpose built acoustic listening room) with a new RME ADI-2 DAC (semi-broken in with approx 150hrs) going straight into the mono's via XLR. I put together a linear power supply adjusted to 12.3V DC using an Acopian (USA made) ps with a very conservative 2A rated output (more like 3A). While listening sessions can very much be anecdotal, we were able to hear a discernible improvement with this linear PS, no eq settings were changed, it was in default settings, same source, only PS was changed and same DB measured before and after. We definitely heard more bass, it was more pronounced, tighter and better separation of instruments. You wouldn't normally use this RME DAC for the above pricey rig and setup but the client wanted to test out the RME in his main room and it did sound scary nice and this room is tuned well. The new RME is very nice, especially for the price. We swapped out the PS's three different times, gave it time, had three people listen and results were the same. The bass was definitely better to the point I needed to fix a ceiling light; I could hear the trim make noise/vibrate with the more pronounced bass; the set up sounded awesome and still probably needs more break in.
Again, listening sessions can be anecdotal and very subjective, mileage will vary with your system and there's countless of previous posts saying otherwise, so take my above info with a grain of salt.


----------



## mcgo

Did someone say mods?


----------



## David A Silva

mcgo said:


> Did someone say mods?


Pretty picture! And this is what mod?????


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## Aspirant Audiophile (Aug 14, 2022)

Matias said:


> Changing the power supply is common and easy as there is no permanent modification to the DAC. But modding a surface mounted board... That should be very hard. Plus it already has excellent measurements, not sure what else is there to gain.


Thanks for this reply as well as Mr Magee's... I'm no technician, but as I understand it the mod I'm getting (on top of the GRpsu) is a discrete I/V converter via a current conveyor, complete with its own separate GR-PSU. If what I just wrote is gobbledy gook, then I blame myself and (as always!) Wikipedia.

 I'm aware of RME's reputation as already being so well designed that mods to the internals are pointless. And, to be clear, I LOVE my RME already--it's my favourite part of my setup, and that includes the headphones themselves. But measurements don't tell the whole story, and my builder is someone who I consider both skilled and trustworthy. The time required for the mod isn't a huge concern--I'm now interested in whether and to what extent it works. So, I'd love to chat with anybody who has also had a go at clearing up the signal path.


----------



## Slaphead

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> Thanks for this reply as well as Mr Magee's... I'm no technician, but as I understand it the mod I'm getting (on top of the GRpsu) is a discrete I/V converter via a current conveyor, complete with its own separate GR-PSU. If what I just wrote is gobbledy gook, then I blame myself and (as always!) Wikipedia.
> 
> I'm aware of RME's reputation as already being so well designed that mods to the internals are pointless. And, to be clear, I LOVE my RME already--it's my favourite part of my setup, and that includes the headphones themselves. But measurements don't tell the whole story, and my builder is someone who I consider both skilled and trustworthy. The time required for the mod isn't a huge concern--I'm now interested in whether and to what extent it works. So, I'd love to chat with anybody who has also had a go at clearing up the signal path.


*If it isn't broken, don't fix it* - especially as you admit you're no technician and therefore are likely to completely fail to understand what you're trying to fix.

And while measurements do not tell the whole story, they are way more accurate than your hearing - human hearing accuracy is absolutely terrible by comparison to even basic measuring equipment.

These mods can be also a total can of worms, once done there can be no going back. Even though I'm technically competent I'm 100% convinced that any modification that I would make to the ADI-2 DAC would most certainly not bring any audible improvement.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile (Aug 14, 2022)

Slaphead said:


> *If it isn't broken, don't fix it* - especially as you admit you're no technician and therefore are likely to completely fail to understand what you're trying to fix.
> 
> And while measurements do not tell the whole story, they are way more accurate than your hearing - human hearing accuracy is absolutely terrible by comparison to even basic measuring equipment.
> 
> These mods can be also a total can of worms, once done there can be no going back. Even though I'm technically competent I'm 100% convinced that any modification that I would make to the ADI-2 DAC would most certainly not bring any audible improvement.


... This isn't a rhetoric contest. I don't say I'm absent of knowledge or that I'm 'fixing' anything myself--I'm asking for substantial commentary about an improved technology. And this response isn't it.

Feel free to support your remarks with examples (or at least technical terms, which I provided, and you don't). Sorry if, by being a bit humble, I opened myself up to condescension.

 I'd definitely appreciate your perspective...with content.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> ... This isn't a rhetoric contest. I don't say I'm absent of knowledge or that I'm 'fixing' anything myself--I'm asking for substantial commentary about an improved technology. And this response isn't it.
> 
> Feel free to support your remarks with examples (or at least technical terms, which I provided, and you don't). Sorry if, by being a bit humble, I opened myself up to condescension.
> 
> I'd definitely appreciate your perspective...with content.


Upthread somebody posted that RME is going to add a linear power supply to their lineup. If anybody has concerns about the wall-wart they can try the RME PSU when it's available.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

gimmeheadroom said:


> Upthread somebody posted that RME is going to add a linear power supply to their lineup. If anybody has concerns about the wall-wart they can try the RME PSU when it's available.


This is very helpful, thanks, though I thought that Matthias (the designer) wrote in the official RME forum that a different power supply wouldn't make any audible difference. Would be interesting if this stance is walked back.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> This is very helpful, thanks, though I thought that Matthias (the designer) wrote in the official RME forum that a different power supply wouldn't make any audible difference. Would be interesting if this stance is walked back.


He did say that years ago, yes. I think these companies whose customers were mostly pro audio were suprised at the reception some of their products get from the hifi customer. RME and 4,4mm jack? Never though it would happen. Violectric supporting DSD? Miracle.

Oh the times they are a' changing...


----------



## Phoniac

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> This is very helpful, thanks, though I thought that Matthias (the designer) wrote in the official RME forum that a different power supply wouldn't make any audible difference. Would be interesting if this stance is walked back.


Don't think so. Quote from RME forum: 

This power supply is different in its concept and will appeal to some (as nearhos prooved), but we will never state that it sounds better or such. BTW, the 2/4 Pro will ship with the current SMPS in a 40 Watt version, and no longer two prong but IEC socket with PE ground to finally fix the leakage current issue.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35329


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Phoniac said:


> Don't think so. Quote from RME forum:
> 
> This power supply is different in its concept and will appeal to some (as nearhos prooved), but we will never state that it sounds better or such. BTW, the 2/4 Pro will ship with the current SMPS in a 40 Watt version, and no longer two prong but IEC socket with PE ground to finally fix the leakage current issue.
> 
> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35329



So do we think we'll be able to buy separately replacement PSUs with the three-prong (grounded) ending to fix the current leakage issue for our older units?


----------



## Another Audiophile

CaptainFantastic said:


> So do we think we'll be able to buy separately replacement PSUs with the three-prong (grounded) ending to fix the current leakage issue for our older units?


I posted photos from London Canjam and was told that the RME linear power supply that will come sometime in September will be compatible with both RME DAC FS and pro. What exactly is the current leakage issue?


----------



## CaptainFantastic (Aug 25, 2022)

Another Audiophile said:


> I posted photos from London Canjam and was told that the RME linear power supply that will come sometime in September will be compatible with both RME DAC FS and pro. What exactly is the current leakage issue?



I wasn't even thinking about the linear power supply, but rather a new PSU like the existing one but with grounding on the other end.

Currently, if the RME is not connected via RCA to an external amp that is grounded and if it's connected to the source via optical (or is it also if connected by USB?), the unit is "floating" as Grace Design explained to me years ago about their m900. There is a low level current that has nowhere to go and is floating in the case of the unit. If you touch the unit, there is a low level vibration feeling in your fingers from the current.

I assume this is what they were referring to here? https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35329 and not the thing that happened to me three times in as many years:


----------



## Another Audiophile

CaptainFantastic said:


> I wasn't even thinking about the linear power supply, but rather a new PSU like the existing one but with grounding on the other end.
> 
> Currently, if the RME is not connected via RCA to an external amp that is grounded and if it's connected to the source via optical, the unit is "floating" as Grace Designed explained to me years ago about their m900. There is a low level current that has nowhere to go and is floating in the case of the unit. If you touch the unit, there is a low level vibration feeling in your fingers from the current.
> 
> I assume this is what they were referring to here? https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35329 and not the thing that happened to me three times in as many years:


Nice one. I wasn't aware of that and never had an issue since i have the RCA connected and not using optical.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> I wasn't even thinking about the linear power supply, but rather a new PSU like the existing one but with grounding on the other end.
> 
> Currently, if the RME is not connected via RCA to an external amp that is grounded and if it's connected to the source via optical (or is it also if connected by USB?), the unit is "floating" as Grace Design explained to me years ago about their m900. There is a low level current that has nowhere to go and is floating in the case of the unit. If you touch the unit, there is a low level vibration feeling in your fingers from the current.
> 
> I assume this is what they were referring to here? https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35329 and not the thing that happened to me three times in as many years:


I don't think so. This is about a 0 Hz digital signal.


----------



## Phoniac

CaptainFantastic said:


> I wasn't even thinking about the linear power supply, but rather a new PSU like the existing one but with grounding on the other end.
> 
> Currently, if the RME is not connected via RCA to an external amp that is grounded and if it's connected to the source via optical (or is it also if connected by USB?), the unit is "floating" as Grace Design explained to me years ago about their m900. There is a low level current that has nowhere to go and is floating in the case of the unit. If you touch the unit, there is a low level vibration feeling in your fingers from the current.
> 
> I assume this is what they were referring to here? https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35329 and not the thing that happened to me three times in as many years:


That 'vibration feeling' became famous by MacBooks - same cause, no power supply ground.


----------



## barontan2418

I have two amps connected to my RME , one balanced (HPA4) one tube (Euforia)
Any advice on below greatly appreciated.
RME's Ref Level is set to +13dBu (Auto Ref Level is set to OFF) and RME volume set at -10, is there anyway if knowing what voltage the RME is putting into the external amplifiers? Reason I'm asking is these setting have been advised for a similar amp to HPA4 on the thread and seem to work well with my HPA4. But and a big but, I also have my tube amp Euforia connected to the SE terminal on RME and I'm worried the above settings are also running into that and could cause damage. My question is should I be worried? Any help and advice would be very appreciated.


----------



## Pendel

FullBlownEargasam said:


> The RME has plenty of power for the Aryas.  It is a fantastic pairing.


I recently purchased Arya v2 and RME ADI-2 DAC (ESS version). I have to agree: it is a fantastic pairing. With equalization the sound is remarkably transparent, detailed, and smooth without the harshness. Soundstage and spatial separation are truly amazing. Depending on the recording, the stage can be more deep or more wide, but it is always airy and stereographic, with very precise natural placements for the instruments and the performers, never smooshing anything.

ADI-2 DAC has plenty of power to drive the Aryas beautifully. I first tried the Aryas with IFI iDSD MIcro BL, which also has enough power to drive them, but does not offer the clarity or the of ADI-2. Since Aryas are mighty large and open, and so are not exactly designed for strolls outside, esp. with the squarish torsion ribbon raised over the headband, the portability of Micro BL is not enough of an attraction to warrant its use. As much as I love it, I would say that Aryas may be a bit out of its league.

I have listened to classical, jazz, pop and rock. All of these work great, as long as the recordings are good. You will hear all of the flaws on old and poorly executed recordings.

ADI-2 takes a bit of time to learn, but it is worth it, especially if you have a pair of Aryas to drive.


----------



## technobear

barontan2418 said:


> I have two amps connected to my RME , one balanced (HPA4) one tube (Euforia)
> Any advice on below greatly appreciated.
> RME's Ref Level is set to +13dBu (Auto Ref Level is set to OFF) and RME volume set at -10, is there anyway if knowing what voltage the RME is putting into the external amplifiers? Reason I'm asking is these setting have been advised for a similar amp to HPA4 on the thread and seem to work well with my HPA4. But and a big but, I also have my tube amp Euforia connected to the SE terminal on RME and I'm worried the above settings are also running into that and could cause damage. My question is should I be worried? Any help and advice would be very appreciated.


dBu   V
-10	0.245
-9	0.275
-8	0.309
-7	0.346
-6	0.388
-5	0.436
-4	0.489
-3	0.549
-2	0.616
-1	0.691
0	0.775
1	0.870
2	0.976
3	1.095
4	1.228
5	1.378
6	1.546
7	1.735
8	1.947
9	2.184
10	2.451
11	2.750
12	3.085
13	3.462
14	3.884
15	4.358
16	4.890
17	5.487
18	6.156
19	6.907
20	7.750

13dBu - 10dBu = 3dBu = 1.095V

Balanced output is 6dBu higher


----------



## barontan2418

technobear said:


> dBu   V
> -10    0.245
> -9    0.275
> -8    0.309
> ...


Thanks technobear. I did take the Euforia off my RME just in case damage might have been caused but it looks to be safe enough from the above chart. Once again thanks for your help.


----------



## George Hincapie

Phoniac said:


> Don't think so. Quote from RME forum:
> 
> This power supply is different in its concept and will appeal to some (as nearhos prooved), but we will never state that it sounds better or such. BTW, the 2/4 Pro will ship with the current SMPS in a 40 Watt version, and no longer two prong but IEC socket with PE ground to finally fix the leakage current issue.
> 
> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35329


If it doesn't sound better then what's the point? Am I missing something?


----------



## DarginMahkum (Aug 27, 2022)

Removed.


----------



## spnc

Another Audiophile said:


> in September



https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=190999#p190999

September? Based on a video from a while back though. Bet it doesn't arrive until later than that.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=191008#p191008

Which is quite a safe bet these days. Nevertheless we make good progress. Maybe already next week I can upload the 2/4 Pro manual (it's only 114 pages...), with tons of details, final specs and features. So anyone interested can take a deep dive-in on this unit.

Matthias Carstens
RME


----------



## spnc (Aug 28, 2022)

technobear said:


> I did hear the release date at Canjam London but I can't remember it. I'm sure it's very soon but I can't find it at any dealers yet. I didn't listen to it.
> 
> As for the Hugo2, since no-one else has chimed in, I was led to try Hugo2 because of dissatisfaction with the sound from the ADI2-DAC (and the iFi Audio iDAC2). I have owned and used all three together for two years now. The ADI2-DAC has a couple of flaws to my ears. The first is the soundstage which is rather 2-dimensional. It is wide but doesn't have much height and has very little depth to it. The Hugo2 puts the stage in a sphere around your head with better height and much better depth. The second flaw occurs whenever the recording contains any harshness, squeal, screech, sqawk, metallic sheen or undue sibilance. The ADI2-DAC makes it worse and is fatiguing to listen to for those tracks. It makes me want to turn it down or listen to something else. The Hugo2 is far more refined. It doesn't add distortion of its own to what is already distorted. It just sounds natural and unfatiguing because it is far more accurate in time than the RME. You can still hear the flaws in those recordings. They are just not thrown at you in an unpleasant way.
> 
> ...



I was intrigued by your feedback since it's the first time I come across such an excessive negative review of the ADI-2 - although it seems that it is the DAC version being discussed here (I'm actually looking to buy the most expensive of the line - the Pro, and specifically the upcoming ADI-2/4 Pro) - but still, your description worried me, in particular the lack of height and depth, and recessed soundstage, which for me as a producer mostly spending 95% of my time with my headphones is a no go.

So out of curiosity I referred to your feedback on RME forum and actually it didn't get any popular lol:



> _"What kind of reply do you want by posting BS like this from head-fi.org?"
> 
> "Best to get a unit in and try it yourself, rather than relying on some unknown audiophile's POV on the internet."
> 
> ...



So I'm still trying to figure out if this 2-dimensional stage claim is valid, especially since I researched the Hugo2, which is almost twice as expensive - and that you claim has a better soundstage/transparency and softer details, but apparently is not so good in the experience of many users (it seems it just didn't click for them soundwise), so I'm really at a loss here. I'd rather spend less with a more reliable and popular brand like RME than splash 2'500 bucks on the Hugo2 that seems to be niche and hit or miss?


----------



## Another Audiophile

spnc said:


> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=190999#p190999
> 
> September? Based on a video from a while back though. Bet it doesn't arrive until later than that.
> 
> ...


That what I was told by your representatives in Canjam London.


----------



## spnc

Another Audiophile said:


> That what I was told by your representatives in Canjam London.


The folks at RME probably better than any 'representative' out there... considering the current delays in supply chains and all I would be surprised it's delivered on time. By the end of the year seems more realistic. Hopefully October.


----------



## dougq

spnc said:


> I was intrigued by your feedback since it's the first time I come across such an excessive negative review of the ADI-2 - although it seems that it is the DAC version being discussed here (I'm actually looking to buy the most expensive of the line - the Pro, and specifically the upcoming ADI-2/4 Pro) - but still, your description worried me, in particular the lack of height and depth, and recessed soundstage, which for me as a producer mostly spending 95% of my time with my headphones is a no go.
> 
> So out of curiosity I referred to your feedback on RME forum and actually it didn't get any popular lol:
> 
> ...


His experience and what he hears is just his and not actually a trait of the rme. You will have to listen on your own.


----------



## technobear

spnc said:


> ...for me as a producer mostly spending 95% of my time with my headphones is a no go...


As a music listener, I would encourage you as a producer to get the RME so that you can more clearly indentify the faults in your product (music) and fix them before they are inflicted on the public.

The RME is not a bad DAC of its type. It was plenty good enough to bring me to tears with the shear musical beauty I was hearing through the RAAL|requisite headphones at Canjam. It enables me to enjoy movies and the music within them on a daily basis. However, when it comes to listening to my music collection for pleasure and enjoying it warts and all without fatigue, the Hugo2 wins hands down.


----------



## spnc (Aug 28, 2022)

technobear said:


> As a music listener, I would encourage you as a producer to get the RME so that you can more clearly indentify the faults in your product (music) and fix them before they are inflicted on the public.
> 
> The RME is not a bad DAC of its type. It was plenty good enough to bring me to tears with the shear musical beauty I was hearing through the RAAL|requisite headphones at Canjam. It enables me to enjoy movies and the music within them on a daily basis. However, when it comes to listening to my music collection for pleasure and enjoying it warts and all without fatigue, the Hugo2 wins hands down.



Interesting thanks, I think this leaves me with no choice but to buy the two products and return the one I like the least haha - or keep them two for different purposes...

Btw there's more in response to your comment on the RME forum's thread...



> I rarely take anyone's word for how something sounds as they never tell us how good their own hearing is.  To me this is like a manufacturing claiming a bunch of stuff and not backing it up with specs.  Would you buy anything from that manufacturer?  Probably not.  So take that claim about the ADI as an opinion only and you know what they say about opinions right....





> Or if people are not informed about which mistakes to avoid when testing, so that psychoacoustic phenomena do not falsify the test result or make it completely useless and if this mixes with or boosts HiFi myths ...


----------



## spnc

technobear said:


> As a music listener, I would encourage you as a producer to get the RME so that you can more clearly indentify the faults in your product (music) and fix them before they are inflicted on the public.
> 
> The RME is not a bad DAC of its type. It was plenty good enough to bring me to tears with the shear musical beauty I was hearing through the RAAL|requisite headphones at Canjam. It enables me to enjoy movies and the music within them on a daily basis. However, when it comes to listening to my music collection for pleasure and enjoying it warts and all without fatigue, the Hugo2 wins hands down.



By the way, did you try to compare with the ADI-2 Pro? That's actually the one I'd be interested in, not the DAC. Is there any difference between the two on this matter?


----------



## technobear

spnc said:


> By the way, did you try to compare with the ADI-2 Pro? That's actually the one I'd be interested in, not the DAC. Is there any difference between the two on this matter?


Not knowingly. I don't own one of those. I thought all the units I heard at Canjam were ADI2-DAC but I could be wrong. I'm not totally sure what was on the RME/HEDD table when I listened.

Not surprised by any of those comments. I am after all just some guy on the internet. I'm also 62 years old and have been listening to hifi equipment since I was 13. I own around 600 CDs worth of music across quite a few genres. I know harshness and distortion when I hear it.


----------



## Another Audiophile

spnc said:


> The folks at RME probably better than any 'representative' out there... considering the current delays in supply chains and all I would be surprised it's delivered on time. By the end of the year seems more realistic. Hopefully October.


I meant RME staff


----------



## jamca

Pendel said:


> I recently purchased Arya v2 and RME ADI-2 DAC (ESS version). I have to agree: it is a fantastic pairing. With equalization the sound is remarkably transparent, detailed, and smooth without the harshness. Soundstage and spatial separation are truly amazing. Depending on the recording, the stage can be more deep or more wide, but it is always airy and stereographic, with very precise natural placements for the instruments and the performers, never smooshing anything.
> 
> ADI-2 DAC has plenty of power to drive the Aryas beautifully. I first tried the Aryas with IFI iDSD MIcro BL, which also has enough power to drive them, but does not offer the clarity or the of ADI-2. Since Aryas are mighty large and open, and so are not exactly designed for strolls outside, esp. with the squarish torsion ribbon raised over the headband, the portability of Micro BL is not enough of an attraction to warrant its use. As much as I love it, I would say that Aryas may be a bit out of its league.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. RME and hifiman arya 2 is a great combo.


----------



## szore

Hello folks, just got home with my new adi-2 DAC! I love the sound, using my Jotunheim 2 amp with it and my Szalayi earphones....In any event, quick question, I notice the volume control changes the balanced output...is there a setting where I can set the output volume to fixed? I have the manual but I cannot find it....


----------



## TK33

szore said:


> Hello folks, just got home with my new adi-2 DAC! I love the sound, using my Jotunheim 2 amp with it and my Szalayi earphones....In any event, quick question, I notice the volume control changes the balanced output...is there a setting where I can set the output volume to fixed? I have the manual but I cannot find it....


I don't use the balanced output (ADI-2 headphone output is great in my opinion and drives my Aeon 2 Noire with plenty of headroom) but I do have the Line Out connected to my NAD D3045, which drives my speakers in my nearfield desktop setup. You have to set the volume to where you want it and then lock it.  Volume Lock can be found in the I/O menu (see screenshots).  You will see Vol Lock on the display as well (vol lock is applied only to Line Out in my case and volume control still works for Phones which makes for a super simple setup).  Hope this helps.


----------



## szore

TK33 said:


> I don't use the balanced output (ADI-2 headphone output is great in my opinion and drives my Aeon 2 Noire with plenty of headroom) but I do have the Line Out connected to my NAD D3045, which drives my speakers in my nearfield desktop setup. You have to set the volume to where you want it and then lock it.  Volume Lock can be found in the I/O menu (see screenshots).  You will see Vol Lock on the display as well (vol lock is applied only to Line Out in my case and volume control still works for Phones which makes for a super simple setup).  Hope this helps.


Absolutley helps, thanks so much. Very impressed with this little honey so far. I understand now why it's a legend...and the front display is absolutely gougeous!


----------



## robm321

I've had mine for a couple years now and remain satisfied. Congrats! You chose right 👍


----------



## Another Audiophile

Does anyone knows if the RME is effected if you connect one amplifier on the RCA and chain another one from the amplifier's pass through? I have two amplifiers and one is with pass through and thought to hook them up and use one or the other with the RME. Never both amps simultaneously


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## mugbot

If it's pass through it should be totally fine. That's what the pass through function is for.


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## Another Audiophile

One more thing. When the RME is off the power supply makes something like a 60Hz noise. You have to be close to the power supply to listen. When the RME is on the sound/noise coming from the power supply stops. Do you encounter the same behaviour?


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## fordski

Another Audiophile said:


> Does anyone knows if the RME is effected if you connect one amplifier on the RCA and chain another one from the amplifier's pass through? I have two amplifiers and one is with pass through and thought to hook them up and use one or the other with the RME. Never both amps simultaneously


That's exactly what I'm doing with my RME XLR line out to a Topping A30 pro. I use the passthrough function on the Topping to switch between the Topping Headphone Amp and my Speaker amp. Works perfectly. Enjoy your RME!


----------



## szore

I'm stunned at how good the DSP is on this...I one of those that never use EQ...well...after 35 years, that has changed! I love being able to just reach over and turn the bass up! And there is zero loss of fidelity, its like the DSP is done at the 'mastering level' if that even means anything....  I am burning in a new iem (ISN EST50), it's also scary good but the bass is a little boxy till it breaks in. I just dropped bass down 1.5dB, and the boxiness vanished, and everything else was pristine. that's when I realized how powerful this thing is....very happy right now!


----------



## HelpMeWithHeadphones

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> Thanks for this reply as well as Mr Magee's... I'm no technician, but as I understand it the mod I'm getting (on top of the GRpsu) is a discrete I/V converter via a current conveyor, complete with its own separate GR-PSU. If what I just wrote is gobbledy gook, then I blame myself and (as always!) Wikipedia.
> 
> I'm aware of RME's reputation as already being so well designed that mods to the internals are pointless. And, to be clear, I LOVE my RME already--it's my favourite part of my setup, and that includes the headphones themselves. But measurements don't tell the whole story, and my builder is someone who I consider both skilled and trustworthy. The time required for the mod isn't a huge concern--I'm now interested in whether and to what extent it works. So, I'd love to chat with anybody who has also had a go at clearing up the signal path.


I have never had this DAC but are you insisting this dac sounds a little dirty, or loud, when nothing is playing? Like there is hissing, or something?


----------



## David A Silva

szore said:


> I'm stunned at how good the DSP is on this...I one of those that never use EQ...well...after 35 years, that has changed! I love being able to just reach over and turn the bass up! And there is zero loss of fidelity, its like the DSP is done at the 'mastering level' if that even means anything....  I am burning in a new iem (ISN EST50), it's also scary good but the bass is a little boxy till it breaks in. I just dropped bass down 1.5dB, and the boxiness vanished, and everything else was pristine. that's when I realized how powerful this thing is....very happy right now!


Congrats on your RME! I've had one since early in the year, and love it. The adjustments now seem simple once I got used to the interface, I have preconfigured eq setup for each of my headphones, and find it's dsp flawless. Enjoy!!!


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Does anyone know where to get a decent SPDIF Coaxial to stereo 3.5 mm cable? They seems to exist but are quite rare appearently.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

RPGWiZaRD said:


> Does anyone know where to get a decent SPDIF Coaxial to stereo 3.5 mm cable? They seems to exist but are quite rare appearently.


What are you trying to do?


----------



## RPGWiZaRD (Sep 7, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> What are you trying to do?



Was hoping you wouldn't ask 😁  it's just something I was curious testing (nothing I intend to be running permanently or anything). Without being too specific:

Another DAC (SPDIF, lineout) (the idea is to be able to use the DSP processing of the DAC) -> Pre-amp (has some customization to it, sadly only has stereo 3.5 mm input/output) -> RME ADI-2 DAC FS Coaxial digital in.

It's just something I wanna try out with the processing of the audio to verify something. I know it's a strange use case. Another alternative is using optical SPDIF input <-> analog converter sort of device between RME DAC and the pre-amp but I don't fancy buying such device for this testing, the 3.5 mm stereo -> spdif coaxial cable seemed like a cheaper option. I'm no connector/cable expert so I don't know if stereo 3.5 mm -> coaxial spdif convertion is doable for starters, only that I see the cable do in fact exist.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

RPGWiZaRD said:


> Was hoping you wouldn't ask 😁  it's just something I was curious testing (nothing I intend to be running permanently or anything). Without being too specific:
> 
> Another DAC (SPDIF, lineout) (the idea is to be able to use the DSP processing of the DAC) -> Pre-amp (has some customization to it, sadly only has stereo 3.5 mm input/output) -> RME ADI-2 DAC FS Coaxial digital in.
> 
> It's just something I wanna try out with the processing of the audio to verify something. I know it's a strange use case. Another alternative is using optical SPDIF input <-> analog converter sort of device between RME DAC and the pre-amp but I don't fancy buying such device for this testing, the 3.5 mm stereo -> spdif coaxial cable seemed like a cheaper option. I'm no connector/cable expert so I don't know if stereo 3.5 mm -> coaxial spdif convertion is doable for starters, only that I see the cable do in fact exist.



I'm not understand something:

Some DAC -> preamp -> RME

The preamp does not have digital out, does it?

There is no analog input on the RME non-pro version.


----------



## TK33 (Sep 7, 2022)

RPGWiZaRD said:


> Was hoping you wouldn't ask 😁  it's just something I was curious testing (nothing I intend to be running permanently or anything). Without being too specific:
> 
> Another DAC (SPDIF, lineout) (the idea is to be able to use the DSP processing of the DAC) -> Pre-amp (has some customization to it, sadly only has stereo 3.5 mm input/output) -> RME ADI-2 DAC FS Coaxial digital in.
> 
> It's just something I wanna try out with the processing of the audio to verify something. I know it's a strange use case. Another alternative is using optical SPDIF input <-> analog converter sort of device between RME DAC and the pre-amp but I don't fancy buying such device for this testing, the 3.5 mm stereo -> spdif coaxial cable seemed like a cheaper option. I'm no connector/cable expert so I don't know if stereo 3.5 mm -> coaxial spdif convertion is doable for starters, only that I see the cable do in fact exist.


Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are trying to do but I am guessing, without knowing your specific models, that when you say "SPDIF, line out" between "another DAC" and "preamp" you mean SPDIF (digital) input to DAC and analog "lineout" to your preamp? Since your preamp only has a 3.5mm stereo input and a 3.5mm stereo output, I am guessing these are analog stereo jacks and that your DAC would have done the digital--> analog conversion prior to sending signal to "preamp".  If this is true, then I don't think the RME ADI-2 DAC will work in your chain as you describe it since it requires a digital input (it does not have an analog input).  Why not just use your RME ADI-2 as the DAC for DSP (source --> RME ADI-2 DAC --> preamp)? In my opinion, the DSP/PEQ features in a compact all in one unit is what makes the ADI-2 DAC great.

Otherwise, does the other DAC have an analog input (analog 3.5mm or RCA, not digital))? For example, my chain is Bluesound Node 2i (source) --> coax (digital) cable --> RME ADI-2 (DAC/HP amp) --> stereo RCA (analog) cables --> NAD D 3045 (via stereo RCA, drives speakers and bass management for subwoofer).  I believe my NAD D 3045 actually converts the analog signal it receives to digital and then converts back from digital to analog using its own internal DAC.  Perhaps your "another DAC" can do the same?

Just a suggestion, but someone here may be able to assist better if you list the model of your actual other DAC and preamp.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

I think it can do that but I would have to check in the manual to be sure but I think I will just skip the pre-amp, had been a better comparison with that as I'm more familiar with sound using that but it was just a brainfart that I didn't think the preamp is analog when obviously both the lineout and the input on the RME DAC are digital so that obviously won't work.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

You're very welcome


----------



## szore

This may seem like a silly question...i'm using the dac out of RME to amp...if anyone else does this, what volume level do you set the RME to? I have it set to about -16, then my amp volume knob is roughly at 11:00-12:00....I figure this was a good balance? I tried full volume out of dac and it sounded shouty....I know I'm obsessing but I'm just curious what others think here....


----------



## gimmeheadroom

szore said:


> This may seem like a silly question...i'm using the dac out of RME to amp...if anyone else does this, what volume level do you set the RME to? I have it set to about -16, then my amp volume knob is roughly at 11:00-12:00....I figure this was a good balance? I tried full volume out of dac and it sounded shouty....I know I'm obsessing but I'm just curious what others think here....



No, this is dangerous and neither piece of gear works as intended.

0 dB out of all sources, and volume is always controlled by the amp.


----------



## captblaze (Sep 8, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> No, this is dangerous and neither piece of gear works as intended.
> 
> 0 dB out of all sources, and volume is always controlled by the amp.


I set mine up with DAC set to 0db, and amp set to one step below clipping.
After that-
I use the DAC to control volume, but never need to approach 0db with that amp setting in order to achieve a proper volume level at my ears

The DAC effectively becomes a Pre Amp


----------



## gimmeheadroom

captblaze said:


> I set mine up with DAC set to 0db, and amp set to one step below clipping.
> After that-
> I use the DAC to control volume, but never need to approach 0db with that amp setting in order to achieve a proper volume level at my ears
> 
> The DAC effectively becomes a Pre Amp


Why are you quoting me when it seems you're responding to the person who asked the question?


----------



## technobear

szore said:


> This may seem like a silly question...i'm using the dac out of RME to amp...if anyone else does this, what volume level do you set the RME to? I have it set to about -16, then my amp volume knob is roughly at 11:00-12:00....I figure this was a good balance? I tried full volume out of dac and it sounded shouty....I know I'm obsessing but I'm just curious what others think here....



It partly depends on what happens in the amp. If the signal goes straight to the volume pot then it doesn't really matter.

In other cases, you might overload the input circuitry of the amp if you give it too much.

If we are talking RCA connections here then your amp is probably expecting around 2V max but should have a bit of headroom above this. It is however unlikely to have enough headroom for the full output of the RME.

Basically you want the largest signal possible out of the DAC for best signal-to-noise ration but without overloading the amp. I suggest setting the reference level to +7dBu and setting the RME volume control to 0dB or +1dB. If using Auto Ref Level, then set the RME volume control to -6dBu (as full output is +13dBu).

+7dBu is about 1.7V.

The conversion table was posted just a day or three ago:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme-adi-2-dac-thread.868015/post-17116338


----------



## szore

technobear said:


> It partly depends on what happens in the amp. If the signal goes straight to the volume pot then it doesn't really matter.
> 
> In other cases, you might overload the input circuitry of the amp if you give it too much.
> 
> ...


See, setting RME to -6dB puts the volume pot on the amp at around 11:00...that feels right


----------



## 04gto

szore said:


> This may seem like a silly question...i'm using the dac out of RME to amp...if anyone else does this, what volume level do you set the RME to? I have it set to about -16, then my amp volume knob is roughly at 11:00-12:00....I figure this was a good balance? I tried full volume out of dac and it sounded shouty....I know I'm obsessing but I'm just curious what others think here....


Not a silly question at all and easily answered by referring to the excellent manual. Not strictly referring to you, but it is amazing to me how many people don't read through the manual. It really covers about everything. If you are using RCA outputs most amps (some will handle much more) will handle 2V input. If using balanced I think standard is around 4V (again, some will handle way more). Using the handy chart below, copied directly from the manual, you can set the appropriate values and never worry about it again: 






When I use mine with RCA, I set it to Ref +13 and Volume -6db (maybe 1.8V?). This seems to work without any issues on every amp I have used with any of my RME units over the last several years, even though I use tone controls and PEQ daily. Amps used for example: Ampsandsound LeeLoo/Pendant, Bottlehead Crack, JDS Labs EL 2, THX 789 and more.


----------



## TK33

szore said:


> See, setting RME to -6dB puts the volume pot on the amp at around 11:00...that feels right


I think the issue is that you put -16 dB instead of -6 dB in your original post.  Probably a typo based on your last response.

I have my RME ADI-2 connected to a NAD I integrated amp via RCA on my desktop.  I believe I started with -5 or -6 on the RME and eventually ended up at -4.5.  My amp is usually around -55 to -45 and has been working great for me.  Auto Ref Level On for me if I recall correctly.


----------



## captblaze

gimmeheadroom said:


> Why are you quoting me when it seems you're responding to the person who asked the question?


Because you made what seemed to be a definitive statement and I responded to it


----------



## szore

TK33 said:


> I think the issue is that you put -16 dB instead of -6 dB in your original post.  Probably a typo based on your last response.
> 
> I have my RME ADI-2 connected to a NAD I integrated amp via RCA on my desktop.  I believe I started with -5 or -6 on the RME and eventually ended up at -4.5.  My amp is usually around -55 to -45 and has been working great for me.  Auto Ref Level On for me if I recall correctly.


No, I DID have it at -16. I changed it to -6Db based on techobears advice



technobear said:


> If using Auto Ref Level, then set the RME volume control to -6dBu (as full output is +13dBu).


----------



## szore

04gto said:


> Not a silly question at all and easily answered by referring to the excellent manual. Not strictly referring to you, but it is amazing to me how many people don't read through the manual. It really covers about everything. If you are using RCA outputs most amps (some will handle much more) will handle 2V input. If using balanced I think standard is around 4V (again, some will handle way more). Using the handy chart below, copied directly from the manual, you can set the appropriate values and never worry about it again:
> 
> 
> 
> When I use mine with RCA, I set it to Ref +13 and Volume -6db (maybe 1.8V?). This seems to work without any issues on every amp I have used with any of my RME units over the last several years, even though I use tone controls and PEQ daily. Amps used for example: Ampsandsound LeeLoo/Pendant, Bottlehead Crack, JDS Labs EL 2, THX 789 and more.


Yes, I read this last week and forgot.....the volume issue for just came up this morning and I went right to the thread....


----------



## fordski

szore said:


> This may seem like a silly question...i'm using the dac out of RME to amp...if anyone else does this, what volume level do you set the RME to? I have it set to about -16, then my amp volume knob is roughly at 11:00-12:00....I figure this was a good balance? I tried full volume out of dac and it sounded shouty....I know I'm obsessing but I'm just curious what others think here....


To me it's not a silly question as I had the same question when I got my RME. (my bad for not reading the entire manual) and have essentially been using it as a preamp to a fixed volume into my amp. Based on the responses here I'm going to check out the recommended settings expressed here and in the manual. Thanks everyone of the comments.


----------



## Triodemode

For maximum signal to noise reference this chart. I find that -13dBr works best  for my setup.


----------



## szore

I'm so confused now....


----------



## skhan007 (Sep 10, 2022)

szore said:


> I'm so confused now....


You're not alone! I'm running my RME into a Bottle Head Crack and the guys on the Bottle Head thread state that the Crack's volume knob handles input gain, so level coming in from the RME isn't so crucial.

For me and my amp/setup, I've found that -15 dBr works very well and gives a bit of range on the amp's volume knob. I just tried the -4.5 dBr suggestion and it sounds good, but I have no range on the amp's volume knob and have to  keep it barely on (at about 8 O'clock), as it gets too loud too quick at -4.5 dBr. I guess in this case, I'll just trust my ears and not the charts/numbers/data.


----------



## fordski

skhan007 said:


> You're not alone! I'm running my RME into a Bottle Head Crack and the guys on the Bottle Head thread state that the Crack's volume knob handles input gain, so level coming in from the RME isn't so crucial.
> 
> For me and my amp/setup, I've found that -15 dBr works very well and gives a bit of range on the amp's volume knob. I just tried the -4.5 dBr suggestion and it sounds good, but I have no range on the amp's volume knob and have to  keep it barely on (at about 8 O'clock), as it gets too loud too quick at -4.5 dBr. I guess in this case, I'll just trust my ears and not the charts/numbers/data.


I have the same problem with my Liquid Platinum hybrid. With the RME at recommended line out settings I also have very little range on the volume knob. Couple that with the fact the amp has a slight channel imbalance at lower volumes means for me the RME is doing the preamp duty, with no sound degradation, at least to my ears. Plus I get the use of the RME remote for volume levels (which the LP does not have) I'm grateful the RME is so flexible for many different use cases. I've found the ability to save settings in different profiles to be hugely convenient when changing sources, connected amps, output levels etc.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

HelpMeWithHeadphones said:


> I have never had this DAC but are you insisting this dac sounds a little dirty, or loud, when nothing is playing? Like there is hissing, or something?


I'm not insisting anything. I'm learning. 


gimmeheadroom said:


> He did say that years ago, yes. I think these companies whose customers were mostly pro audio were suprised at the reception some of their products get from the hifi customer. RME and 4,4mm jack? Never though it would happen. Violectric supporting DSD? Miracle.
> 
> Oh the times they are a' changing...


Coming back to this, and with full awareness that the RME is already great, here is a Nelson Pass paper, not about PSU but rather about the DAC output mod I'm getting, as I mentioned earlier:

https://www.passdiy.com/project/other/zen-i-v-converter

There's a ten-year-old thread about this specific mod here on Head-fi, with plenty of enthusiasm about an idea from Pass, but I can't find many who have actually attempted the mod.


----------



## szore

mmm...front display died this morning. I rebooted then it worked, then it died again. Rebooted and its still working as of now...looks like a warranty exchange...


----------



## CaptainFantastic

szore said:


> mmm...front display died this morning. I rebooted then it worked, then it died again. Rebooted and its still working as of now...looks like a warranty exchange...


My display didn't die but acquired some vertical lines just before the warranty expired. RME did a fantastic job handling the repair. Very satisfied.


----------



## szore

CaptainFantastic said:


> My display didn't die but acquired some vertical lines just before the warranty expired. RME did a fantastic job handling the repair. Very satisfied.


Well I just got it 2 weeks ago, I'm hoping the store can just exchange it for me... we'll see...maybe it was just a glitch...


----------



## skhan007

szore said:


> Well I just got it 2 weeks ago, I'm hoping the store can just exchange it for me... we'll see...maybe it was just a glitch...


Curious if a software update may or may not be helpful? The good news is that you are well within a return window.


----------



## szore

skhan007 said:


> Curious if a software update may or may not be helpful? The good news is that you are well within a return window.


It's been fine after those 2 glitches... sheesh, my AresII is out for delivery after a repair job...i got the RME just out of curiosity when it went on sale for $1K and now I love it so much I'm thinking of selling the Ares...I'd love to keep both but it seems silly having 2 dacs.


----------



## G8torbyte

szore said:


> It's been fine after those 2 glitches... sheesh, my AresII is out for delivery after a repair job...i got the RME just out of curiosity when it went on sale for $1K and now I love it so much I'm thinking of selling the Ares...I'd love to keep both but it seems silly having 2 dacs.


Congrats on getting it a few weeks ago.  Hopefully the display glitch worked itself out.  RME provides driver and firmware updates which I think is a good thing making continual improvements.  I purchased the RME about 4 years ago with the older AKM chip and it's been a solid pro-audio component.  Back then I think it only had green, cyan and monochrome options on the display but later updates added red, orange and amber.

Latest update came out last week. From the readme file:

Important information: Driver version 0.9794
Installation
-------------
Latest driver:
http://www.rme-audio.de/download/driver_madiface_win_xxxx.zip
Latest firmware
http://www.rme-audio.de/download/fut_madiface_win.zip

The firmware update is not possible unless the driver had been installed before.
Follow the instructions of the RME Driver Install Wizard. This tool installs/updates all driver files. After that attach the device (in case of first time installation) or reboot (in case of an update) the computer.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Just a quick question for owners...

Is it okay to have both the XLR and Unbalanced RCAs connected simultaneously, or does this cause any issues? Just want to make sure as on some dacs this is not recommended.

Was planning on running the XLR to a separate Headphone amp.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Cheers!!


----------



## Tano

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Just a quick question for owners...
> 
> Is it okay to have both the XLR and Unbalanced RCAs connected simultaneously, or does this cause any issues? Just want to make sure as on some dacs this is not recommended.
> 
> ...


I got my RME connected to a hybrid amp using the balanced connection and got a pair of active speakers hooked to the RCA. Got 0 issues when using the line out.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Tano said:


> I got my RME connected to a hybrid amp using the balanced connection and got a pair of active speakers hooked to the RCA. Got 0 issues when using the line out.


Hey, Thanks so much for the quick reply, I appreciate it!!

Cheers!!


----------



## DarginMahkum

So, ADI-2/4 Pro SE is out end of October...

https://www.hoerzone.de/shop/rme-adi-24-pro-se.html


----------



## camilletcrisp

Hi I'm trying to find a good amp to pair with my ADI-2 DAC FS. Is that even necessary? Any recommendations are appreciated


----------



## szore

I ended up returning the unit with the faulty display-sticking with my AresII...


----------



## Tano

DarginMahkum said:


> So, ADI-2/4 Pro SE is out end of October...
> 
> https://www.hoerzone.de/shop/rme-adi-24-pro-se.html


That's 600 € more than the old RME ADI 2 PRO and more than double of the RME ADI 2 DAC FS. I could be wrong, but I don't think the new model could justify the price difference just for a pentaconn output and more power.


----------



## 04gto (Oct 7, 2022)

camilletcrisp said:


> Hi I'm trying to find a good amp to pair with my ADI-2 DAC FS. Is that even necessary? Any recommendations are appreciated


If you are just powering the headphones in your signature, you will be wasting money by adding another amp. Unless you are going to power something really power hungry like- Susvara, HE6 or 1266TC etc then you will need more power. Otherwise you have nothing to gain by adding an additional amp.

Edit: additional caveat- unless you want to experiment with tubes. I recommend Ampsandsound or Woo Audio (I would skip the ever popular but 'meh' Bottlehead Crack).


----------



## jamca

camilletcrisp said:


> Hi I'm trying to find a good amp to pair with my ADI-2 DAC FS. Is that even necessary? Any recommendations are appreciated


Could you tell us which headphone will you pair with it? From my experience generally it is not necessary. It is one of the best i tried, and the only thing that bothers me as device is the quality control issues that should not exist (defective screens, weird hand soldered cable patches...)


----------



## evhvis

camilletcrisp said:


> Hi I'm trying to find a good amp to pair with my ADI-2 DAC FS. Is that even necessary? Any recommendations are appreciated


The sound stage on the ADI-2 DAC FS isn't the largest but the amp is quite good. I mostly just use it and am happy with it. Expect to spend close to the same money or more on an amp that will be meaningfully better unless you need massive amounts of power.


----------



## 04gto

DarginMahkum said:


> So, ADI-2/4 Pro SE is out end of October...
> 
> https://www.hoerzone.de/shop/rme-adi-24-pro-se.html


Very exciting news. 


Tano said:


> That's 600 € more than the old RME ADI 2 PRO and more than double of the RME ADI 2 DAC FS. I could be wrong, but I don't think the new model could justify the price difference just for a pentaconn output and more power.


I am not (yet) in disagreement with you about the price increase. However, there are a few more changes here than just the pentaconn and more power. Known tangible upgrades are: More power, Pentaconn connector, 12v remote power trigger on the back, 20% more DSP power, even lower noise floor for IEM use, ability for engineers to loop and monitor the analog chain at the same time. It is also said to have lower THD, which will not be an audible improvement, since it was already way below the hearing threshold. They have not disclosed yet what they are doing with the extra 20% of DSP power. My guess (hope really) is that they use it to make the unit into a 10 band PEQ, in leu of the current 7 (5 + B/T added in the menu). To me, if it only has the increased power, pentaconn and increased PEQ, it would be worth the price increase. 

Sources: 
RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE Digital Converter - Gearspace @ Superbooth 2022
RME User Forum → ADI-2 Pro & ADI-2 DAC → ADI-2/4 Prototyp


----------



## Tano

04gto said:


> Very exciting news.
> 
> I am not (yet) in disagreement with you about the price increase. However, there are a few more changes here than just the pentaconn and more power. Known tangible upgrades are: More power, Pentaconn connector, 12v remote power trigger on the back, 20% more DSP power, even lower noise floor for IEM use, ability for engineers to loop and monitor the analog chain at the same time. It is also said to have lower THD, which will not be an audible improvement, since it was already way below the hearing threshold. They have not disclosed yet what they are doing with the extra 20% of DSP power. My guess (hope really) is that they use it to make the unit into a 10 band PEQ, in leu of the current 7 (5 + B/T added in the menu). To me, if it only has the increased power, pentaconn and increased PEQ, it would be worth the price increase.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. If they have improved the PEQ with a 10 band one, alonside the power and the 4,4 output, it could justify the price steep.
I don't care at all for proffessional uses, so I cannot value those features, but improving the PEQ is a must for me.
I guess we'll find out soon.


----------



## Slaphead (Oct 8, 2022)

04gto said:


> Very exciting news.
> 
> I am not (yet) in disagreement with you about the price increase. However, there are a few more changes here than just the pentaconn and more power. Known tangible upgrades are: More power, Pentaconn connector, 12v remote power trigger on the back, 20% more DSP power, even lower noise floor for IEM use, ability for engineers to loop and monitor the analog chain at the same time. It is also said to have lower THD, which will not be an audible improvement, since it was already way below the hearing threshold. They have not disclosed yet what they are doing with the extra 20% of DSP power. My guess (hope really) is that they use it to make the unit into a 10 band PEQ, in leu of the current 7 (5 + B/T added in the menu). To me, if it only has the increased power, pentaconn and increased PEQ, it would be worth the price increase.
> 
> ...





Tano said:


> I agree with you. If they have improved the PEQ with a 10 band one, alonside the power and the 4,4 output, it could justify the price steep.
> I don't care at all for proffessional uses, so I cannot value those features, but improving the PEQ is a must for me.
> I guess we'll find out soon.


If somebody needs more that a 5 band PEQ then either something is seriously wrong with their source material, or very seriously wrong with their understanding of EQ.


----------



## Tano

Slaphead said:


> If somebody needs more that a 5 band PEQ then either something is seriously wrong with their source material, or very seriously wrong with their understanding of EQ.


Well. You could easily need more than 5 bands even if you source and headphones are good. It's a matter of tastes. I use 7 bands with my Finals D8000 PRO and I still like them in their stock tuning, but I like fine tuning them.
The thing is that, in my opinion, they need to improve that feature to adjust it to the standar of 10 bands.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Slaphead said:


> If somebody needs more that a 5 band PEQ then either something is seriously wrong with their source material, or very seriously wrong with their understanding of EQ.


I lived through the graphic EQ wars of the 1970s and to this day I never used it. I have an SAE Parametric 3 bander somewhere and that was always more than enough.

Some people live to turn knobs, I'm not one of them


----------



## 04gto

Slaphead said:


> If somebody needs more that a 5 band PEQ then either something is seriously wrong with their source material, or very seriously wrong with their understanding of EQ.


If you have a headphone with a messy frequency response, peaks and valleys close to each other etc you will need more than 5 bands. For some speaker room correction scenarios you will again possibly need more. Though I generally get by with 2-4. I have thousands of hours of PEQ and analog EQ. I also know several professional sound engineers and have sat in on hundreds of hours of recording and mastering sessions. I am no 'expert', but I understand EQ very well. Certainly more than most.


----------



## OCC7N (Oct 8, 2022)

After the RME DAC FS has had some burnin, the iPurifier3 did not go well, it felt like a veil. It sounds better without it. I am trying so hard to like this DAC. Its soo lifeless. No seperation, everything sound mashed together in a dry coating. Vocal are too much in the "background"

Even the most joyeful, vibing songs feels dead. No musicality.

What can I do to push some life into this. What Im I doing wrong?

EQ is off
Loudness on Bass/Treble on 3dB and Low Ref level at -20dB
B/T 3/2.5 47Hz/7kHz

Currently settings:
Auto Ref Level on
HiPower on
Mono off
Width 1
MS proc off
Polarity off
Crossfeed off
DA filter SD Sharp
De-emphasis off
Dual EQ off
Lock Volume off
Balance C
Loopback to USB off
Dig DC Protection ON


----------



## Tano

OCC7N said:


> After the RME DAC FS has had some burnin, the iPurifier3 did not go well, it felt like a veil. It sounds better without it. I am trying so hard to like this DAC. Its soo lifeless. No seperation, everything sound mashed together in a dry coating. Vocal are too much in the "background"
> 
> Even the most joyeful, vibing songs feels dead. No musicality.
> 
> ...


Looks like you don't like High Fidelity then, because that's what a DAC like the RME ADI is going to give you. Transparent sound without any coloration.


----------



## 04gto

Tano said:


> Looks like you don't like High Fidelity then, because that's what a DAC like the RME ADI is going to give you. Transparent sound without any coloration.


Sounds like dude needs something that 'colors' the sound. Or makes it sound 'better'. Like a Chord TT2, a tube amp or similar. RME products just reproduce what is in the recording. Nothing else.


----------



## Tano (Oct 8, 2022)

04gto said:


> Sounds like dude needs something that 'colors' the sound. Or makes it sound 'better'. Like a Chord TT2, a tube amp or similar. RME products just reproduce what is in the recording. Nothing else.


Well, I get that people like coloured sound. I like headphones with tuning that is far from what we could call "neutral" and like some tube amps, but I want my DACs to be transparent and true to the source.

Im more shocked that he claims thar the RME ADI 2 DAC FS gives you a mashed sound with no separation.
I would love to hear the DACs that he consider to give a good sound then, because I already love what I hear from my DAC.


----------



## OCC7N

04gto said:


> Sounds like dude needs something that 'colors' the sound. Or makes it sound 'better'. Like a Chord TT2, a tube amp or similar. RME products just reproduce what is in the recording. Nothing else.


There is a cold powdery sugar feel to this dac. I don´t believe it reproduce very good. I have worked with RME products before. I know what they are known for, sound flat and stable drivers. But since they moved into the HIFI and have alot of settings, it still manages sound flat and borring.

Is there any settings I am missing?


----------



## 04gto (Oct 8, 2022)

OCC7N said:


> There is a cold powdery sugar feel to this dac. I don´t believe it reproduce very good. I have worked with RME products before. I know what they are known for, sound flat and stable drivers. But since they moved into the HIFI and have alot of settings, it still manages sound flat and borring.
> 
> Is there any settings I am missing?


I honestly don't think so. I think your ears are just used to the iFi sound (your signature). Which is def more colored (especially with tube modes and such). Nothing wrong with that. The cleaner, some might say 'flat', some might say 'sterile' or un colored sound may not be for you. Me I want all of the flavor or color to come from the headphones, not the amp/dac. Just preference. Myself for example: I used to listen to some tube amps but I grew tires of the extreme coloration and steered more towards a purer sound.


----------



## OCC7N (Oct 8, 2022)

04gto said:


> I honestly don't think so. I think your ears are just used to the iFi sound (your signature). Which is def more colored (especially with tube modes and such). Nothing wrong with that. The cleaner, some might say 'flat', some might say 'sterile' or un colored sound may not be for you. Me I want all of the flavor or color to come from the headphones, not the amp/dac. Just preference. Myself for example: I used to listen to some tube amps but I grew tires of the extreme coloration and steered more towards a purer sound.


If it is supposed to be a mirror of a production. It should give me the studio vibes.

I dont feel the placement/panning of the instruments and elements


----------



## 04gto (Oct 8, 2022)

OCC7N said:


> If it is supposed to be a mirror of a production. It should give me the studio vibes.


I have been in a few studios/recording rooms. It does not usually sound like peope think it will. I have a CD that I use for reference. I was in the room when it was recorded as well as probably a hundred hours of practices before hand. When I listen to that CD through my RME ADI-2 Pro and my LCD-XC it gets me all tingly, not because it sounds amazing (it does) but because it brings me back to the moment. Anything extra or missing would ruin the experience for me. Nothing is there that does not belong, nothing is missing. If I listened to it through a very good tube amp like my previous Ampsandsound Leeloo/Pendant, it would sound very good, but nowhere near accurate.


----------



## 04gto

szore said:


> I ended up returning the unit with the faulty display-sticking with my AresII...


Not gonna lie, if I bought anything, regardless of reputation, and it arrived defective, I would send it back and look elsewhere. Having said all that, I have now owned four different versions of the RME ADI-2 line and all have been reliable.


----------



## technobear

OCC7N said:


> DA filter SD Sharp


Try NOS.


----------



## jamca

04gto said:


> Not gonna lie, if I bought anything, regardless of reputation, and it arrived defective, I would send it back and look elsewhere. Having said all that, I have now owned four different versions of the RME ADI-2 line and all have been reliable.


I would like to believe it but i have read many issues with defective units, and also after my experience with the weird cable patch (at a brand new sealed rme adi 2) i doubt about the reliability. Worst of all is that there was not any comment form MC, the guy that usually responce  about adi2 fs. Also very suspicious that EVERY thread commenting on this issue was closed. I will let you make the conclusions about reliability and trustiness...


----------



## jamca

OCC7N said:


> After the RME DAC FS has had some burnin, the iPurifier3 did not go well, it felt like a veil. It sounds better without it. I am trying so hard to like this DAC. Its soo lifeless. No seperation, everything sound mashed together in a dry coating. Vocal are too much in the "background"
> 
> Even the most joyeful, vibing songs feels dead. No musicality.
> 
> ...


I have never exprerienced soundwise no separation or whatever wrong with rmw adi2 fs (ess version). In contrary everything is crystal clear, with wide stage ( without much depth, but of course it is not missing at all...) , and i could also in contrary say that vocals are not too much in the background. Either it is something with your unit, or there is a setting that you miss. Rme as a whole is the best unit i know, that does everything in a very high level, even the headphone outputs are capable as a good as a "dedicated" amp would be.


----------



## OCC7N (Oct 9, 2022)

technobear said:


> Try NOS.


I will try it. Thanks!



jamca said:


> I have never exprerienced soundwise no separation or whatever wrong with rmw adi2 fs (ess version). In contrary everything is crystal clear, with wide stage ( without much depth, but of course it is not missing at all...) , and i could also in contrary say that vocals are not too much in the background. Either it is something with your unit, or there is a setting that you miss. Rme as a whole is the best unit i know, that does everything in a very high level, even the headphone outputs are capable as a good as a "dedicated" amp would be.


Are you using the stock charger og a LPS?

I firmwared to 51 and. Well

I think I will try it in Cubase(ASIO) I cant see any ASIO driver. Im gonna test it next weekend.


----------



## jamca

i am using the stock charger and the latest firm v.51 ...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

OCC7N said:


> If it is supposed to be a mirror of a production. It should give me the studio vibes.
> 
> I dont feel the placement/panning of the instruments and elements


If you haven't already you should go over your settings. Out of the box a few things have to be tweaked.

I didn't read backwards to see what headphones and chain you're using with it.


----------



## 04gto

From the latest post on the RME forums:
"*Differences ADI-2 Pro to ADI-2/4 Pro - Brief Overview*

Extended and improved RefLevel structure: +1 dBu, +7 dBu, +13 dBu, +19 dBu, +24 dBu
Same RefLevels on Phones Outputs as 3 power states: IEM (+1 dBu), Low Power (+7 dBu), High Power (+19 dBu)
Independent RefLevels for Line Out 1/2 and Phones Out 1/2

Phones Output Power raised to 2.1 W unbalanced and 3.4 Watt balanced, 32 Ohm
New True Balanced Phones output scheme
Therefore Balanced Phones output independent from Line Out 1/2, full use at the same time
Added menu page for configuration of Phones 1/2
Dual Volume control now also available in balanced phones mode
Pentaconn connector for ease of use

Input impedance unbalanced raised to 45k - > compatible to Moving Magnet cartridges
Input impedance balanced raised to 90k - > ideal for measurements

Improved input stage, no added distortion even at lowest RefLevel that needs amplification

ADC: Selected ES9822Pro for lowest THD, highest THD+N and SNR
AD measurement bandwidth flat up to 200 kHz
AD filters selectable even at 384 kHz sample rate

DA frequency response expanded from 110 kHz to 350 kHz
DA filters selectable even at 768 kHz sample rate
De-Emphasis available even with NOS selected
New output stage delivers full SNR even at low RefLevel +1 dBu 

Rear TRS outputs can be switched from 1/2 to 3/4
Trigger Out to control power amps etc

Full MM cartridge support: RIAA EQ and various gains included
Special feature Bass Mono to reduce rumble and groove noise

Comes with new, semi-grounded 40 Watts SMPS with IEC socket
And 114 page printed manual"


----------



## skeeb23

So I've been doing lots of research today on a next upgrade for me.  Currently I have the Schiit Modius/Jotunheim2 stack.  I'm strongly considering an upgrade to the BF2 (new version) from schiit.  My Jot2 has plenty of power for my headphones.  
Today I've started looking into the RME here.  My main concern is I do not want a new amp, simply a dac.  I get that I can get a 2 for 1 out of this and always use my current setup as an alt listening table.  
I love the feature set of the RME as well.  I'm curious if there is another DAC (only) out there with a similar feature set for my Jot2 to stack with?  Or I could always still use my Jot2 with the RME I know.  
I don't typically enjoy doing EQ, but if I do I would want it in a format like this.  I absolutely do not want to use software EQ that I have to rely on windows for.  

So then my other option is something like the BF2 along with a Lokius and I still would be paying less then the RME.  I know I'm probably asking some that will be biased to the RME here, but hopefully also some non-biased opinion of this.  I love the Schiit ecosystem, but I'm not married to it.


----------



## 04gto (Oct 9, 2022)

skeeb23 said:


> So I've been doing lots of research today on a next upgrade for me.  Currently I have the Schiit Modius/Jotunheim2 stack.  I'm strongly considering an upgrade to the BF2 (new version) from schiit.  My Jot2 has plenty of power for my headphones.
> Today I've started looking into the RME here.  My main concern is I do not want a new amp, simply a dac.  I get that I can get a 2 for 1 out of this and always use my current setup as an alt listening table.
> I love the feature set of the RME as well.  I'm curious if there is another DAC (only) out there with a similar feature set for my Jot2 to stack with?  Or I could always still use my Jot2 with the RME I know.
> I don't typically enjoy doing EQ, but if I do I would want it in a format like this.  I absolutely do not want to use software EQ that I have to rely on windows for.
> ...


I have looked long and hard, starting four years ago,  at every potential option at ANY price point. There are zero dac only options with even a similar feature set. Even if you broaden your search to dac/amps there is nothing. The only thing that has a VERY few of the key features of the RME is the now discontinued Monoprice desktop dac/amp(also owned it). Nowhere near as functional though. The other options are Schiit- Loki, Lokius, Loki max (I very much want one of these, just don't need it). The Qudelix 5k is available too but again very restricted functionality (I have two of them).

-Yes I am a RME "fanboy". But with good reason. There is literally nothing else on the market with the functionality and features of the RME ADI-2 DAC line at any price.


----------



## eswng679 (Oct 9, 2022)

skeeb23 said:


> So I've been doing lots of research today on a next upgrade for me.  Currently I have the Schiit Modius/Jotunheim2 stack.  I'm strongly considering an upgrade to the BF2 (new version) from schiit.  My Jot2 has plenty of power for my headphones.
> Today I've started looking into the RME here.  My main concern is I do not want a new amp, simply a dac.  I get that I can get a 2 for 1 out of this and always use my current setup as an alt listening table.
> I love the feature set of the RME as well.  I'm curious if there is another DAC (only) out there with a similar feature set for my Jot2 to stack with?  Or I could always still use my Jot2 with the RME I know.
> I don't typically enjoy doing EQ, but if I do I would want it in a format like this.  I absolutely do not want to use software EQ that I have to rely on windows for.
> ...


Perhaps I may be of help. I have 2 Jotunheims (1 for the office and the other at home). The setup at home is OG BF2 > Jot 2, while the office is EITR > ADI-2 > Jot 2.
The reason I became interested with the RME is because my work computer does not give me the option to EQ via 3rd party software, like EqualizerAPO. I enjoy Schiit gear as well but I picked one up from the classified section for a decent price and thought the worst is that I can sell it back out.

Long story short, I have zero regrets and it is 100% a keeper for me. Like many have said before me, there is no other product in the current market today that comes with the amount of features and ability to tweak sound like the RME ADI-2 at this price point. This thing is an absolute gem. The AKM version I have is basically a Modius supercharged with features. I've got multiple EQ profiles saved for my headphones and it simply takes a push of a knob. You can change everything from advanced cross-feed settings to the colour of the digital meters (also a plus!).

RME is also a solid company that continues to provide driver / firmware updates. As I type this post, I found out that RME even provides the ability to purchase replacement digital displays should the original crap out - which seems amazing considering most companies would just rather you buy a new one from them.

Happy to answer more questions if you'd like. As you can see, I've complete bought into RME's philosophy now.


----------



## skeeb23

eswng679 said:


> Perhaps I may be of help. I have 2 Jotunheims (1 for the office and the other at home). The setup at home is OG BF2 > Jot 2, while the office is EITR > ADI-2 > Jot 2.
> The reason I became interested with the RME is because my work computer does not give me the option to EQ via 3rd party software, like EqualizerAPO. I enjoy Schiit gear as well but I picked one up from the classified section for a decent price and thought the worst is that I can sell it back out.
> 
> Long story short, I have zero regrets and it is 100% a keeper for me. Like many have said before me, there is no other product in the current market today that comes with the amount of features and ability to tweak sound like the RME ADI-2 at this price point. This thing is an absolute gem. The AKM version I have is basically a Modius supercharged with features. I've got multiple EQ profiles saved for my headphones and it simply takes a push of a knob. You can change everything from advanced cross-feed settings to the colour of the digital meters (also a plus!).
> ...


Thank you for that.  

Really my questions come down to a few:
1.  Do you find the Jot2 to be a better amp option then the built in amp of the RME, or at least worth the stack?  Does it stack ok?
2.  I too am interested in the EQ options as I just do not like software eq.  I don't really eq much, but it would be nice to have that handy.  Do you find the EQ adjustments here to be more accurate then say something like the Loki/Lokius options from Schiit?
3.  Have you compared this to something like...the TT2 (yes I know we are talking quite a bit more in price) just to see how it punches up in value?  

Thank you!


----------



## eswng679 (Oct 9, 2022)

skeeb23 said:


> Thank you for that.
> 
> Really my questions come down to a few:
> 1.  Do you find the Jot2 to be a better amp option then the built in amp of the RME, or at least worth the stack?  Does it stack ok?
> ...


1. I prefer the Jot 2 over the built in amp of the RME for headphones. Nothing beats the punch that the Jot 2 has for the price. Having said that, the RME is excellent for my IEMs (another +1 for flexibility). I've tried running IEMs through the Jot 2 and had a lot of noise via SE. With balanced, the noise goes away but there is waaaay too little play on the volume knob. Re: stacking, the Jot 2 is wider and deeper so it will need to be at the base. Having said that, I bought risers for the RME and it actually makes a decent looking stack. I've attached an image for reference. Apologies in advance for the dust.

2. The EQ in the RME is a 5 band parametric EQ. You get 2 extra bands for bass and treble. The EQ is EXTREMELY accurate and best in class for the price. I wouldn't waste my time with Loki / Lokius as they are more tone controls than EQ. You cannot pinpoint specific frequencies or change the Q factor on either of those units.
A bit unrelated but I also like how the RME's dac portion has a volume knob which allows for a better way to control input into the amp section (unlike the Bifrost 2).

3. Unfortunately, I have no experience with anything at that price point. All I can say is the RME has included so many features, some I didn't even know I needed, into a great sounding package, which allows it to punch well above its price point. I am all in - this is coming from someone who has cycled through most of the Schiit lineup.


----------



## skeeb23

eswng679 said:


> 1. I prefer the Jot 2 over the built in amp of the RME for headphones. Nothing beats the punch that the Jot 2 has for the price. Having said that, the RME is excellent for my IEMs (another +1 for flexibility). I've tried running IEMs through the Jot 2 and had a lot of noise via SE. With balanced, the noise goes away but there is waaaay too little play on the volume knob. Re: stacking, the Jot 2 is wider and deeper so it will need to be at the base. Having said that, I bought risers for the RME and it actually makes a decent looking stack. I've attached an image for reference. Apologies in advance for the dust.
> 
> 2. The EQ in the RME is a 5 band parametric EQ. You get 2 extra bands for bass and treble. The EQ is EXTREMELY accurate and best in class for the price. I wouldn't waste my time with Loki / Lokius as they are more tone controls than EQ. You cannot pinpoint specific frequencies or change the Q factor on either of those units.
> A bit unrelated but I also like how the RME's dac portion has a volume knob which allows for a better way to control input into the amp section (unlike the Bifrost 2).
> ...


Awesome, no worries on dust on gear, no way to ever get rid of that ha!

Alright, so now I have another question for you or really anyone on this subject.  When I use my stack I set my windows volume to 100% and then adjust my volume on the Jot2 from there.  This has always been my preferred way to get the bitrate out as I should.

Since the RME has its own volume knob, how do you handle that part of it all?  That stack doesn't look so bad.  Thankfully the heat the Jot2 outputs is minimal so I'm sure no issues there.  If I do go that route, I may even make myself some sort of stacking shelf.


----------



## Slaphead (Oct 11, 2022)

Tano said:


> Well. You could easily need more than 5 bands even if you source and headphones are good. It's a matter of tastes. I use 7 bands with my Finals D8000 PRO and I still like them in their stock tuning, but I like fine tuning them.
> *The thing is that, in my opinion, they need to improve that feature to adjust it to the standar of 10 bands.*


I don't think there's a standard for PEQ, most of my production EQs are around 5 band for PEQ. The 10 band that you talk about would however be a consumer standard for GEQ. The RME doesn't use GEQ though, it uses PEQ.



04gto said:


> If you have a headphone with a messy frequency response, peaks and valleys close to each other etc you will need more than 5 bands. For some speaker room correction scenarios you will again possibly need more. Though I generally get by with 2-4. I have thousands of hours of PEQ and analog EQ. I also know several professional sound engineers and have sat in on hundreds of hours of recording and mastering sessions. I am no 'expert', but I understand EQ very well. Certainly more than most.



That's way too much correction needed. What the hell for equipment are you buying that requires that much correction? if I had headphones or monitors that required more than a slight correction in the bass or treble, even for room correction, then they're either faulty or they are incredibly bad products.


----------



## 04gto

Slaphead said:


> That's way too much correction needed. What the hell for equipment are you buying that requires that much correction? if I had headphones or monitors that required more than a slight correction in the bass or treble, even for room correction, then they're either faulty or they are incredibly bad products.


That is your opinion. Nothing more. This hobby and music are both subjective. Too many on here state things (as you did above) as fact, when they are just your opinion.


----------



## skeeb23

Just got it in today!  I plan to read some of the manual tonight and get it setup tomorrow.


----------



## captblaze

skeeb23 said:


> Just got it in today!  I plan to read some of the manual tonight and get it setup tomorrow.


Congrats and good luck with the manual. It is a small phone book worth of information, but will get you where you need to go


----------



## eswng679 (Oct 12, 2022)

skeeb23 said:


> Just got it in today!  I plan to read some of the manual tonight and get it setup tomorrow.


What are your impressions vs. Schiit DAC with Jot 2?


----------



## David A Silva

@skeeb23 congrats and enjoy your new RME.


----------



## skeeb23

eswng679 said:


> What are your impressions vs. Schiit DAC with Jot 2?


Alright, so this is immediate impressions and I need to do plenty of more tweaking.

So first listen is with my Atriums.  I have the Jot2 hooked up on both SE and Bal.

It took me a bit to get the right volume out of the RME to match what I was getting from the Modius-Jot2.  I found, for me, that if I put ref level to 7db and then volume to 0, I was able to get the volume about the same out of the Jot2.  I tried a recommended -5 ref level and I had the Jot2 cranked almost all the way to max which is not normal.  This was on SE.  I haven't tried balanced yet as I'm sure I'll have to further adjust the ref.
Now this is the Atriums of course, so they do require quite a bit more power anyway.

Then I tried the SE out of the RME.  Very interesting.  Volume level was fine here, no issues driving the Atriums.  However, I actually preferred the sound I was getting out of the RME amp.  It was more...tight, clean sounding.  The best example I can give is how a Planar sounds compared to a DD.  This is what I got.  I do know the SE out of the Jot2 is said to be warmer as it is, so it could be this.  Also it could be that going from the Modius to the RME made things just a bit more crisp and precise sounding to where the colorization of the Jot2 came out.  Now, on other headphones, this may be a better combo.  

Either way, I love having the option here to give myself the versatility I wanted and why I chose the RME over the BF2.  Again, quite a bit more testing to do and fun listening while doing it.


----------



## wantan

skeeb23 said:


> Alright, so this is immediate impressions and I need to do plenty of more tweaking.
> 
> So first listen is with my Atriums.  I have the Jot2 hooked up on both SE and Bal.
> 
> ...



I had Bifrost 2/Jot 2 and the ADI 2 DAC FS and for me the ADI 2 DAC FS was the winner. The DAC as well the headamp. It has more microdynamics which means better room/space and a more airy presentation. That's basically better transparency. 
Once you have EQ in place for your headphones to get slam and good treble the ADI 2 DAC FS as headamp realy shines.


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Congrats Man.  I remember getting that box.  After reading the manual a few times and getting her all up and running I knew I didn't care about receiving any other boxes.  Enjoy! 




skeeb23 said:


> Just got it in today!  I plan to read some of the manual tonight and get it setup tomorrow.


----------



## 04gto

FullBlownEargasam said:


> Congrats Man.  I remember getting that box.  After reading the manual a few times and getting her all up and running I knew I didn't care about receiving any other boxes.  Enjoy!


No other boxes necessary!


----------



## FullBlownEargasam

Damn right.  Well..... I do have it sitting on top of a A90D and loosing my mind on how good it sounds but I didn't need it.  



04gto said:


> No other boxes necessary!


----------



## wanderingsounds

Probably silly question: can the EQ from the ADI-2 FS be used to simulate the characteristics of certain amp flavors, e.g., the warmth of a tube amp?


----------



## Another Audiophile

wanderingsounds said:


> Probably silly question: can the EQ from the ADI-2 FS be used to simulate the characteristics of certain amp flavors, e.g., the warmth of a tube amp?


I don’t think so because valve amplifiers have a sound predominantly influenced by 2nd harmonic distortion and not much to do with the frequency response.


----------



## 801evan

Bit of a bizarre behavior with the RME where tidal mqa on Android is always 192khz, but on iOS tidal, the frequency is proper, be it 44.1,88.2, 96khz. Android Tidal usually has a prompt for it to be bit perfect but it doesn't work on ADI-2 FS.


----------



## wantan

Another Audiophile said:


> I don’t think so because valve amplifiers have a sound predominantly influenced by 2nd harmonic distortion and not much to do with the frequency response.


The ESS version can actually do this, see manual page 28. I've never used it so can't say anything else about it.


----------



## DarginMahkum

wantan said:


> The ESS version can actually do this, see manual page 28. I've never used it so can't say anything else about it.


Wow, you are right. I didn't know that (not that I would use it, though).







801evan said:


> Bit of a bizarre behavior with the RME where tidal mqa on Android is always 192khz, but on iOS tidal, the frequency is proper, be it 44.1,88.2, 96khz. Android Tidal usually has a prompt for it to be bit perfect but it doesn't work on ADI-2 FS.


Hmmm... Strange.


----------



## Another Audiophile

wantan said:


> The ESS version can actually do this, see manual page 28. I've never used it so can't say anything else about it.


I’ve used it and can’t hear any difference. Maybe others might be able to hear it.


----------



## batmansbest (Oct 27, 2022)

Modded with Audio Note capacitors. Sounds more musical than stock, has better layering and separation, and a Lower noise floor. Stock configuration sounds dry and a bit grainy in comparison.


----------



## Another Audiophile

batmansbest said:


> Lower noise floor


Did you measure it or heard the difference. I am asking because the noise floor is already below any audible level.


----------



## batmansbest

Another Audiophile said:


> Did you measure it or heard the difference. I am asking because the noise floor is already below any audible level.


Only rely on my ears, my family, and my friends. 
I'm not a measurements guy, in my opinion they don't mean much in real world applications. 
Your mileage may obviously vary.


----------



## Another Audiophile

batmansbest said:


> Only rely on my ears, my family, and my friends.
> I'm not a measurements guy, in my opinion they don't mean much in real world applications.
> Your mileage may obviously vary.


So you were able to hear lower noise floor from the RME?


----------



## batmansbest

Another Audiophile said:


> So you were able to hear lower noise floor from the RME?


yeah. I have very transparent speakers. 
The graininess and lack of resolution is quite apparent. The Stock DAC, especially with the factory PSU is just not very fun to listen to, at least for me. 
A linear power supply is the 1st upgrade I would consider. The capacitor upgrades make a very substantial difference as well. 

I had a buddy bring over a stock RME DAC so we could do side by side comparisons, and everyone that listened to them agreed with the differences I stated above.  
It wasn't close.
That's proof enough for me, 
Like I said, your mileage may vary.

I'm not trying to argue or start anything here, just posted pictures of my mod.


----------



## Another Audiophile

batmansbest said:


> yeah. I have very transparent speakers.
> The graininess and lack of resolution is quite apparent. The Stock DAC, especially with the factory PSU is just not very fun to listen to, at least for me.
> A linear power supply is the 1st upgrade I would consider. The capacitor upgrades make a very substantial difference as well.
> 
> ...


No arguments mate. Just trying to see if your observations are of any value for my situation. BTW, RME is coming with a new linear power supply in few weeks/months. Posted a photo earlier under this thread.


----------



## DarginMahkum

batmansbest said:


> I'm not a measurements guy, in my opinion they don't mean much in real world applications.
> Your mileage may obviously vary.


Mathematics, measurements and physics are what make the billions of transistors switch billions of times per second in your computer and produce correct results each and every time. It is also the same with the DACs and amplifiers and we know the limits of human hearing. If something is below audible limits, it is not your opinion what makes it audible. Electronics is pure mathematics and maths does not change if someone has this or that opinion. Every device around you, especially electronic devices are an application of measurements to real world applications, so yes, measurements matter a lot for the real world applications. Just because you use the word "in my opinion" the facts don't change. Especially in an RME thread.


----------



## batmansbest

DarginMahkum said:


> Mathematics, measurements and physics are what make the billions of transistors switch billions of times per second in your computer and produce correct results each and every time. It is also the same with the DACs and amplifiers and we know the limits of human hearing. If something is below audible limits, it is not your opinion what makes it audible. Electronics is pure mathematics and maths does not change if someone has this or that opinion. Every device around you, especially electronic devices are an application of measurements to real world applications, so yes, measurements matter a lot for the real world applications. Just because you use the word "in my opinion" the facts don't change. Especially in an RME thread.


whatever you say. I don't wanna argue


----------



## batmansbest

Another Audiophile said:


> No arguments mate. Just trying to see if your observations are of any value for my situation. BTW, RME is coming with a new linear power supply in few weeks/months. Posted a photo earlier under this thread.


I posted a comment on RME's website a while back, detailing my experiences with a Linear power supply, and I got attacked and laughed off by all the measurements guys, they became very hostile. So it's quite funny for me to hear that RME itself is coming out with a new power supply 
It's kinda hilarious actually. 
Thank you for letting me know.


----------



## Another Audiophile

Guys. Everyone can have their opinion. The point is not to discard anyone's opinion but read with our critical mind in place. For example @batmansbest said that the capacitors made an audible difference in noise floor. I will not say he is wrong because that's not the point. What i will do is not upgrading my RME because based on the information provided from RME i will not be able to hear a difference. So what the result is? He saved me some time and money.


----------



## DarginMahkum

Another Audiophile said:


> Guys. Everyone can have their opinion. The point is not to discard anyone's opinion but read with our critical mind in place. For example @batmansbest said that the capacitors made an audible difference in noise floor. I will not say he is wrong because that's not the point. What i will do is not upgrading my RME because based on the information provided from RME i will not be able to hear a difference. So what the result is? He saved me some time and money.


Claiming change in the tuning is one thing, and claiming an "improvement" of an inaudible thing is another thing. Often the people that have no clue on the technical side of the things or don't want to "waste" time trying to understand them come out with this kind of "in my opinion" statements. It is of course not an issue not to know something, but it becomes an issue when someone disregards facts and calls them invalid just because he doesn't want to deal with them and impose his preferences over the facts as facts don't care about preferences.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/yes-objectivists-do-confirm-their-decisions-by-listening.964702/

Anyway, I am out...


----------



## wantan

Lucky me my ADI 2 DAC FS sounds fantastic in stock form with stock psu. Clean, silky, microdynamics galore.


----------



## Another Audiophile

wantan said:


> Lucky me my ADI 2 DAC FS sounds fantastic in stock form with stock psu. Clean, silky, microdynamics galore.


Ditto


----------



## wanderingsounds

@batmansbest is just doing capacitor-rolling and power supply-rolling . That's not much different in concept to tip- or cable-rolling, is it? Tons of people here do that and the results will always have an initial subjective perspective. If those who engage in whatever-rolling are happy with their modifications, then that's all that matters. No one is obliged to replicate those modifications or agree with the results.


----------



## DarginMahkum

wanderingsounds said:


> @batmansbest is just doing capacitor-rolling and power supply-rolling . That's not much different in concept to tip- or cable-rolling, is it? Tons of people here do that and the results will always have an initial subjective perspective. If those who engage in whatever-rolling are happy with their modifications, then that's all that matters. No one is obliged to replicate those modifications or agree with the results.


It has nothing to do what someone modifies, rolls or others agree with him or not. Expressing your preferences and disregarding / invalidating facts as you don't have the tools and the knowledge to make the connections are different things. Most of the never ending debates are due to not being able to make the distinction, and it is made by both sides. I don't care if someone smashes his ADI-2 with sledgehammer and claims he improved the sound. If you read my responses it has nothing about what is good, bad or preferable. But if you put a statement like "in my opinion they don't mean much in real world applications", then there will be a response to that, as it is sent to an open thread where there are other people. Distorting a fact just because one doesn't have the tools and background to analyse something in a logical way and make the connection is not an opinion or a preference, it is just a meaningless statement.


----------



## DarginMahkum

Anyway... Back to ADI-2. My Pro 2/4 is hopefully arriving next week. At least the feedback I got from the dealer yesterday.


----------



## batmansbest

You guys are so defensive and sensitive. If you like what you have, great.....lets other's who want to the get the most of this DAC,  explore upgrades in peace. Live and let live.
Take care.


----------



## DarginMahkum

batmansbest said:


> You guys are so defensive and sensitive. If you like what you have, great.....lets other's who want to the get the most of this DAC,  explore upgrades in peace. Live and let live.
> Take care.


Naah, classic. Throw in some "measurements are crap" note in your writing, and when you are responded exactly for that point, pretend like "measurement people are against me, they don't want me to explore" defense, as you have nothing to back your "unprovoked" bashing on technical matters. That is as far as you can go with your "measurements don't mean much in real world" thesis. You throw in your "thesis" and when someone responds "they want to limit my freedom", as if there was even a single reference to what you were "exploring".


----------



## Another Audiophile

batmansbest said:


> You guys?


Plural?


----------



## David A Silva

Another Audiophile said:


> Plural?


Correction: it's "youse guys"!


----------



## jamca

batmansbest said:


> I posted a comment on RME's website a while back, detailing my experiences with a Linear power supply, and I got attacked and laughed off by all the measurements guys, they became very hostile. So it's quite funny for me to hear that RME itself is coming out with a new power supply
> It's kinda hilarious actually.
> Thank you for letting me know.


Rme and MC become very hostile if something you say they don't like it. Check all the threads that were about the weird cable patch at the first batch of ESS models and you will understand...Everythread was closed without any official answer, while at everything else MC replies...So if they don't like your argue they just become arrogant and hostile. Very disappointed from RME despite i like their products...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

jamca said:


> Rme and MC become very hostile if something you say they don't like it. Check all the threads that were about the weird cable patch at the first batch of ESS models and you will understand...Everythread was closed without any official answer, while at everything else MC replies...So if they don't like your argue they just become arrogant and hostile. Very disappointed from RME despite i like their products...


This is very true. I guess it comes with the territory, he's kind of a mad scientist.


----------



## batmansbest (Oct 31, 2022)

jamca said:


> Rme and MC become very hostile if something you say they don't like it. Check all the threads that were about the weird cable patch at the first batch of ESS models and you will understand...Everythread was closed without any official answer, while at everything else MC replies...So if they don't like your argue they just become arrogant and hostile. Very disappointed from RME despite i like their products...


RME specifically said that Linear power supplies and batteries make zero difference...none whatsoever. Psychoacoustics is the term they throw around, instead of actually listening for themselves. It's very rich that after the way they treated me on that post, that they turn around and are planning on selling a LINEAR power supply. This RME DAC will the last thing that I ever purchase from this company, they way they treat customers on those forums that are just trying to help out other audiophiles get the most out of their products is quite sad.
The outright hostility and ridicule aimed against their own customers is the definition of bad business.


----------



## wantan

A couple of people from the subjective camp with high rep didn't hear differences with LPS. @Torq former SBAF/headphones.com somes to mind. 

So let's collect some facts:
-From a technical perspective it's highly unlikely a LPS would make a difference.
-No difference in measurements.
-People with lots of experience in DAC listening didn't hear a difference.

If there is a difference in PSUs the first question that comes to mind are technical issues in the audiochain. When I read comments that claim the ADI 2 DAC FS sounds grainy etc this also points towards technical issues elsewhere. Because the ADI 2 DAC doesn't sound grainy at all. It's smooth and silky with tons of microdynamics. I've compared it to various DACs like Schiiit Bifrost 2, Ifi Neo iDSD and Holo Spring, Crane Song Solaris. The ADI 2 DAC is just clean. And yes, I hear differences between DACs eventually.
Also measurements doesn't show anything that would point towards grain.
And I've used the RME with a Sbooster 12V mk2 for a while.


----------



## DarginMahkum

batmansbest said:


> RME specifically said that Linear power supplies and batteries make zero difference...none whatsoever. Psychoacoustics is the term they throw around, instead of actually listening for themselves. It's very rich that after the way they treated me on that post, that they turn around and are planning on selling a LINEAR power supply. This RME DAC will the last thing that I ever purchase from this company, they way they treat customers on those forums that are just trying to help out other audiophiles get the most out of their products is quite sad.
> The outright hostility and ridicule aimed against their own customers is the definition of bad business.


I would also really be annoyed if people with zero electrical engineering and signal processing background would pop up in forums and make claims like measurments don't matter around people that develop respected professional level audio equipment with decades of experience in the mentioned fields. These products were not developed with "listen only" audiophiles in mind until they were hijacked to this so called hobby with 90% snake oil. Otherwise they could easily place it in a big thick heavy aluminium case  and stick a 5000€ price tag on it.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

DarginMahkum said:


> I would also really be annoyed if people with zero electrical engineering and signal processing background would pop up in forums and make claims like measurments don't matter around people that develop respected professional level audio equipment with decades of experience in the mentioned fields. These products were not developed with "listen only" audiophiles in mind until they were hijacked to this so called hobby with 90% snake oil. Otherwise they could easily place it in a big thick heavy aluminium case  and stick a 5000€ price tag on it.



While what you say is perfectly sensible, losing your temper and arguing with and/or insulting your customers is perfectly insensible.


----------



## Another Audiophile

batmansbest said:


> The outright hostility and ridicule aimed against their own customers is the definition of bad business.


You are right. It's a hobby not a crusade. Personally i am not in camps. As an engineer myself i believe that both measurements and observations have a role to play and indispensable parts of science.  Nevertheless you have to be prepared to challenge your own believes. When you state that you can hear difference in noise floor i don't say that this is wrong but the difference you hear might not be due to differences in noise floor because the threshold of noise floor in the RME is well below the human hearing. After all it's your pocket and nobody can tell you how to spend your money. Science is wonderful and my hobby is not measurements but listening. Nevertheless, science matters because without it we wouldn't have anything. When i talk science i don't refer to the work done by Audio Science review because they don't do science. they do measurements and their hobby is different from mine.


----------



## DarginMahkum

gimmeheadroom said:


> While what you say is perfectly sensible, losing your temper and arguing with and/or insulting your customers is perfectly insensible.


Yeah, of course I don't know about the full reaction. If he went so far to insult people, well, that is bad.


----------



## wantan

It would be sensible to post a link to the RME forum thread in question.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

wantan said:


> It would be sensible to post a link to the RME forum thread in question.


It's not one thread. You can see it in many threads.


----------



## wantan

From what I've seen the RME guys behave quite fair, considering what some people post there. 

I guess they're not used to the amount of "support" their audiophile customers need.  

I find the RME forum has lots of realy good information.


----------



## DarginMahkum

At least the ones I checked, I actually find him even quite patient with all the nonsense thrown at him. Especially when those things are thrown again and again and again.

Come to think of it: You try to be honest with your products (as you are especially targeting professional audio), spend years working on them, improving it with every chance you get. Then every day you are faced with people that has no professional background on audio, electronics or signal processing; doesn't even want to understand what is happening but cut all the corners trying to impose his opinions as facts with no empirical data outside of his head; only privilage he has being the amount of money he has in the bank account with which he thinks he receives the right to disregard decades of academic and engineering effort by people that worked on them. Not just that, even when you say "no, this is not how things are working" you are being pulled into long debates that try to convince you with sentences starting with "in my opinion", with no empirical proof but lots of "I liked this, I didn't like this".


----------



## gimmeheadroom

DarginMahkum said:


> At least the ones I checked, I actually find him even quite patient with all the nonsense thrown at him. Especially when those things are thrown again and again and again.
> 
> Come to think of it: You try to be honest with your products (as you are especially targeting professional audio), spend years working on them, improving it with every chance you get. Then every day you are faced with people that has no professional background on audio, electronics or signal processing; doesn't even want to understand what is happening but cut all the corners trying to impose his opinions as facts with no empirical data outside of his head; only privilage he has being the amount of money he has in the bank account with which he thinks he receives the right to disregard decades of academic and engineering effort by people that worked on them. Not just that, even when you say "no, this is not how things are working" you are being pulled into long debates that try to convince you with sentences starting with "in my opinion", with no empirical proof but lots of "I liked this, I didn't like this".



Yes, I think this is part of the problem. RME didn't expect how popular the DAC would be with hifi people. And the hifi customer is a totally different customer than the pro audio clientelle they knew all these years.

Sure, there are idiots and goofballs posting nonsense, but temper and good customer relations should be expected even then. Courtesy never goes out of style.


----------



## Ateefi

Hi there just a quick question to RME dac users, is it worthwhile getting an RME  if you don't use the eq or the myriad of other functions available. Thinking of getting the new one when available but don't think i would use the other functions much. Looking for something to replace Hugo TT2 that i might sell


----------



## ziggz

Ateefi said:


> Hi there just a quick question to RME dac users, is it worthwhile getting an RME  if you don't use the eq or the myriad of other functions available. Thinking of getting the new one when available but don't think i would use the other functions much. Looking for something to replace Hugo TT2 that i might sell


I'm using it without using ALL the advanced features. The volume being perfectly matched, and the adjustable output voltage for my seperate amp is great as well. It also runs all my HP's with enough power. I Still think its worth it.


----------



## Ateefi

Thanks for the info.


----------



## fordski

Ateefi said:


> Hi there just a quick question to RME dac users, is it worthwhile getting an RME  if you don't use the eq or the myriad of other functions available. Thinking of getting the new one when available but don't think i would use the other functions much. Looking for something to replace Hugo TT2 that i might sell


I use the RME without the EQ features and for me the killer feature is the variable loudness control. I generally listen to music at lower volumes and find the Loudness feature has greatly enhanced my listening pleasure. Also the internal amp is great for most of my headphone listening.


----------



## barontan2418

fordski said:


> I use the RME without the EQ features and for me the killer feature is the variable loudness control. I generally listen to music at lower volumes and find the Loudness feature has greatly enhanced my listening pleasure. Also the internal amp is great for most of my headphone listening.


At present I'm using solely as a dac to my Euforia tube amp. I have the original TT as dac to my HPA4. Expect to try out the EQ and loudness abilities at some stage. It works very well for Euforia.😃


----------



## Ateefi

Whats your thoughts on it compared to the Chord TT?


----------



## batmansbest (Nov 5, 2022)

DarginMahkum said:


> I would also really be annoyed if people with zero electrical engineering and signal processing background would pop up in forums and make claims like measurments don't matter around people that develop respected professional level audio equipment with decades of experience in the mentioned fields. These products were not developed with "listen only" audiophiles in mind until they were hijacked to this so called hobby with 90% snake oil. Otherwise they could easily place it in a big thick heavy aluminium case  and stick a 5000€ price tag on it.


Snake oil?
They are now selling a Linear power supply upgrade. So much for the snake oil theory.
They should post an apology on their forum for harassing the people that were providing their experiences about the things that they are now selling.

The same people saying better power supplies make absolutely no difference, are also saying better capacitors make ABSOLUTELY no difference. 
They haven't tried or listened to either.


----------



## barontan2418

Ateefi said:


> Whats your thoughts on it compared to the Chord TT?


I think the RME is an amazing piece of kit with all the possibilities it offers and the only area for which I prefer the TT is sound stage and instrument placement.


----------



## DarginMahkum

batmansbest said:


> Snake oil?
> They are now selling a Linear power supply upgrade. So much for the snake oil theory.
> They should post an apology on their forum for harassing the people that were providing their experiences about the things that they are now selling.
> 
> ...


No, they are not selling a linear power supply "upgrade", they are just selling (or will sell) a linear power supply. They have no claims of any influence on the sound and they are pretty explicit about that. They are just doing it due to the demand. Just like they added a 4.4mm balanced connector with more power to the Pro 2/4, although it has no professional audio demand but mainly from hifi people, as Pro ADI-2 already has enough power to drive any HP in the market.

You can claim all you like, but they are the people that can develop such a product and know, analyze and improve in a controlled fashion with decades of experience. They are a respected company. You, on the other hand, read some forums, find out some part numbers and solder them on their design, and go to their forums and make lots of claims, probably without even solving a simple RLC circuit in your life or a simple fourier analysis of a simple signal. What did you expect? That they will take your "I listened and it sounds great" claims seriously?

If you are a "listen only" person, 1) don't go to their forums. 2) don't buy their products, as you should have learned until now, their products are not targeted for you.


----------



## Tennessee

I bursted in laugh when I saw their new high end PSU, because just few years ago they were mocking people on their forum asking about using third party linear PSUs.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Tennessee said:


> I bursted in laugh when I saw their new high end PSU, because just few years ago they were mocking people on their forum asking about using third party linear PSUs.


They still are , but now they will get to profit from them too


----------



## Another Audiophile

Tennessee said:


> I bursted in laugh when I saw their new high end PSU, because just few years ago they were mocking people on their forum asking about using third party linear PSUs.


I think RME will have the last laugh since they will be making money out of this. I don't recall RME claiming that their PSU or any PSU will improve sound quality.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Another Audiophile said:


> I think RME will have the last laugh since they will be making money out of this. I don't recall RME claiming that their PSU or any PSU will improve sound quality.



So what are they saying in the product description / marketing (they must have one or two lines, right?). Is it like "Here's a PSU, it's as good as your cheap stock PSU but buy it anyway if you're an idiot?"


----------



## wantan

They'll probably write that it opens up the soundstage and has a more analogue sound. 
The difference is small but substantial.


----------



## Another Audiophile (Nov 7, 2022)

CaptainFantastic said:


> So what are they saying in the product description / marketing (they must have one or two lines, right?). Is it like "Here's a PSU, it's as good as your cheap stock PSU but buy it anyway if you're an idiot?"


When I talked to them during the London Canjam they didn't claim any improvement. They just told me here is a PSU if you want one. When I said why the PSU instead of the stock switch mode one the said there is no particular reason other than people asking for it.

Also the PSU they've developed is not only for the RME DAC but for more products and can power multiple units on a float or fix output with a ground lift. I would do the same. If I have many people knocking my door asking for something then I will provide it.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Another Audiophile said:


> When I talked to them during the London Canjam they didn't claim any improvement. They just told me here is a PSU if you want one. When I said why the PSU instead of the stock switch mode one the said there is no particular reason other than people asking for it.
> 
> Also the PSU they've developed is not only for the RME DAC but for more products and can power multiple units on a float or fix output with a ground lift. I would do the same. If I have many people knocking my door asking for something then I will provide it.



Thanks. Good point about the float issue. I had it with my Grace Design m900 first, years back. Grace Design explained to me what was happening. Harmless but annoying. And without grounding the same issue applies to the RME ADI-2, the Hugo 2 (in desktop mode), the TT2 (via optical and if not connected to a grounded amp)... the list goes on. So indeed thanks for pointing out that that's one possible use. Not sure how much I would pay for that small fix though.


----------



## Another Audiophile

CaptainFantastic said:


> I had it with my Grace Design m900 first, years back.


Did you have any issues with him/buzz? I never understood when to use the lift switch.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Another Audiophile said:


> Did you have any issues with him/buzz? I never understood when to use the lift switch.



Not sure we're talking about the same unit. The GD m900 didn't have a lift switch, unless I forgot. I sold it some two years ago. No issues except a cheap power supply as it happens, the plastic casing cracked when plugging or unplugging. 

Sometimes I wish I hadn't sold it. Makes a great office unit that is good and cheap enough not to worry about leaving on the desk for any cleaning crew abuse.


----------



## batmansbest

Good luck to everyone here. I just Sold my DAC. 
The pictures are up for anyone wanting to upgrade their stock capacitors.   
Take care.


----------



## wantan

Why did you sell it and what do you have as alternative?


----------



## IXOYE

I'm sure it's been said somewhere but going through 354 pages would be more than I can handle right now.
So I'm wondering if the RME ADI-2 DAC pairs well with Sundara and Arya Stealth? I have Sundara at the moment and am thinking of upgrading to Arya SE later, but thought I'd take the opportunity to buy this DAC/AMP first as I'm getting a good price on it right now.


----------



## robm321

^ It definitely pairs well with the Sundara. I own the ADI and Sundaras but haven't heard the Arya's.


----------



## DarginMahkum

IXOYE said:


> I'm sure it's been said somewhere but going through 354 pages would be more than I can handle right now.
> So I'm wondering if the RME ADI-2 DAC pairs well with Sundara and Arya Stealth? I have Sundara at the moment and am thinking of upgrading to Arya SE later, but thought I'd take the opportunity to buy this DAC/AMP first as I'm getting a good price on it right now.


Do you mean if it has the power to drive them? Yes, it does. If it is about a particular signature, you always have the EQ to fine tune to whatever signature you like.


----------



## jamca

robm321 said:


> ^ It definitely pairs well with the Sundara. I own the ADI and Sundaras but haven't heard the Arya's.





IXOYE said:


> I'm sure it's been said somewhere but going through 354 pages would be more than I can handle right now.
> So I'm wondering if the RME ADI-2 DAC pairs well with Sundara and Arya Stealth? I have Sundara at the moment and am thinking of upgrading to Arya SE later, but thought I'd take the opportunity to buy this DAC/AMP first as I'm getting a good price on it right now.


I am sorry to tell (as i dislike RME after their dishonesty experience i had...) but RME will definitely drive the Aryas, even better than dedicated good amps... Althought it does not drive full headphones as good as other amp do, it provides one of the best combo with Arya. Having these two you do not need anything else. It is kind of endgame (for me) for the money. So i thing it is a great option. I want to add, that appart from the full headphone output, ADI 2 has the best iem output i have experienced even compared to really good daps, with zero hiss.


----------



## talan7

dogrelata said:


> @VRacer-111 or any other Stax users.  So far I've only managed to read the first 60 pages but I'd like to ask a fairly basic question.  I'm running  L700 Mk II with SRM-252S, but looking for a used 353X.
> 
> I've currently got a QuteHD and am naturally interested in the Qutest.  I've recently missed out on a couple of used Qutests that were selling for around the same as new ADI-2 FS.
> 
> ...


I just got around to the idea of selling my Stax 353X. If you're still interested, PM me, and I'll get you pics. I haven't set up a classified yet (lazy).


----------



## IXOYE

Placed an order for it today, can't wait 😃


----------



## ST33L

IXOYE said:


> I'm sure it's been said somewhere but going through 354 pages would be more than I can handle right now.
> So I'm wondering if the RME ADI-2 DAC pairs well with Sundara and Arya Stealth? I have Sundara at the moment and am thinking of upgrading to Arya SE later, but thought I'd take the opportunity to buy this DAC/AMP first as I'm getting a good price on it right now.


Yes, it’ll easily power both the Sundara and Arya SE.


----------



## wantan

The headamp does, in my experience, actually sound awesome. It took me a while to get used to the fact that it is just a small add on amp compared to some of the big headphone amps I had. In the meantime I've sold most of the "big guys" because I love the ADI 2 amp with pretty much everything. Microdynamics and soundstage and detail is just delicate.


----------



## jamca

I have a question about polarity. If i change the polarity to "both" i would swear that i hear a little more soundstage and a little loss of center image, which i find good thing for soundtracks, orchestral ect. Have you experienced anything like that or it is just mine  (faulty) impression? thx


----------



## batmansbest (Nov 13, 2022)

wantan said:


> Why did you sell it and what do you have as alternative?


I have a Rockna wavelight.
I's just in a different league.
It's also 5x the price


----------



## wantan

jamca said:


> I have a question about polarity. If i change the polarity to "both" i would swear that i hear a little more soundstage and a little loss of center image, which i find good thing for soundtracks, orchestral ect. Have you experienced anything like that or it is just mine  (faulty) impression? thx



This happens to me, too. But I've never been able to confirm it in long time listening. It's one of these typical audio features, you change something and it sound better, eventually you change it back and it sounds better again. 
I also think polarity depends on the recording.

BTW if you check things like this I'd recommend to use the remote control to switch between settings because a change in listening position leads to different results and can be very misleading.


----------



## ShootingStills

Guys can I ask for some help here?

The product - https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html - Is this a new product or an old one?
I was told that all the latest ones are now using a new digital socket on the back with an adapter for COAX, but I notice this one still have the COAX input?

Have the ADI-2 DAC FS had any revisions in its life? Looks like it came out a number of years ago with reviews dating back to 2017. However, all the 'expert reviews' are from last year and this year. Was there a revision?

Sorry to babble


----------



## fordski

ShootingStills said:


> Guys can I ask for some help here?
> 
> The product - https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html - Is this a new product or an old one?
> I was told that all the latest ones are now using a new digital socket on the back with an adapter for COAX, but I notice this one still have the COAX input?
> ...


It's a good question as there have been some changes to RME's lineup over the years. The only recent change has been the addition of a new Pro offering that has a balanced 4.4mm output and some updated internals. The ADI-2 DAC FS has only had chip changes as far as I'm aware. Due to a fire at the AKM factory they changed to an ESS chip in the latest versions and they claim there are no sound differences among the 2 models. Previous ADI's had AKM 4490 and more recently AKM 4493 chips. The only other change is a larger remote with more functionality. They address the changes in the first page of the manual which you can download from their site. I have the latest version and really enjoy it.


----------



## wantan

ShootingStills said:


> Guys can I ask for some help here?
> 
> The product - https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html - Is this a new product or an old one?
> I was told that all the latest ones are now using a new digital socket on the back with an adapter for COAX, but I notice this one still have the COAX input?
> ...



This one:
https://www.rme-audio.de/de_adi-2-4-pro-se.html

It's a new product with different functionality compared to the ADI 2 DAC FS. The pro-audio tech can be quite confusing.


----------



## jamca (Nov 14, 2022)

ShootingStills said:


> Guys can I ask for some help here?
> 
> The product - https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html - Is this a new product or an old one?
> I was told that all the latest ones are now using a new digital socket on the back with an adapter for COAX, but I notice this one still have the COAX input?
> ...


Adi 2 dac FS had a big revision changing from AKM chips to ESS in around 2020 i think. I would not trust new RME ADI-2 FS as it may be from the batch that had the weird hand soldered cable issue, there are some threads about it. Obviously RME did not want the issue to be widely known as we never got any official answer from MC (who is the guy who is answering at forums) or RME in general. What makes me nervous and suspicious as i asked at both rme forum and AudioScienceReview forum and at both sites they closed the thread as obscure...although i and some others only wanted an official answer. So i would suggest the RME 2 fs but only if you are 100% sure  it has not the hand soldered cable, until we get an official answer from someone or measurements between a hand soldered and a non hand soldered RME... It is great dac-amp but this fact was disappointing...


----------



## ShootingStills

Crikey ok. I have no idea if it would be one of those or not. Is there a serial range that this affected? I may opt for the iFi Neo instead as there's a bundle version available at a very reduced price currently. And I will pretty much only be using this as a home HiFi DAC rather than a headphone amp.


----------



## jamca

ShootingStills said:


> Crikey ok. I have no idea if it would be one of those or not. Is there a serial range that this affected? I may opt for the iFi Neo instead as there's a bundle version available at a very reduced price currently. And I will pretty much only be using this as a home HiFi DAC rather than a headphone amp.


I dont know if there is a serial range... if RME had ever answered to our replies we would know...Also never heard ifi neo, although i once had ifi idsd dac-amp which i liked a lot. I think they use Burr Brown chips which are great, and very analog sounding, without sacrifying detail retrieval.


----------



## DarginMahkum

jamca said:


> I would not trust new RME ADI-2 FS as it may be from the batch that had the weird hand soldered cable issue, there are some threads about it.


So first time you see a bridge cable being added to an electronic product? That is the huge "issue" you are talking about? What is the issue, it acts like an antenna and you hear your neighbour talking on the phone while listening to music? Or is it just not audiophile enough?


----------



## wantan

jamca said:


> Adi 2 dac FS had a big revision changing from AKM chips to ESS in around 2020 i think. I would not trust new RME ADI-2 FS as it may be from the batch that had the weird hand soldered cable issue, there are some threads about it. Obviously RME did not want the issue to be widely known as we never got any official answer from MC (who is the guy who is answering at forums) or RME in general. What makes me nervous and suspicious as i asked at both rme forum and AudioScienceReview forum and at both sites they closed the thread as obscure...although i and some others only wanted an official answer. So i would suggest the RME 2 fs but only if you are 100% sure  it has not the hand soldered cable, until we get an official answer from someone or measurements between a hand soldered and a non hand soldered RME... It is great dac-amp but this fact was disappointing...



How do you know the cable is hand soldered and how does this affect the performance of the unit?


----------



## jamca

I would say that i know nothing, and i only assume. That is why i asked for an *official answer* and instead of it every thread about it *was closed.* Nothing more to say, as you start the same ironies as others did. I just say my experience and i will continue talking about it until i get an *OFFICIAL answer.* Perhaps it is better with the cable, not sure too, no-one knows. MC could just answer with measurements, he is able to do it.


----------



## ShootingStills

So the soldering thing wasn't an issue as such, but more of an unknown? As in, has anyone reported issues that correlated with the hand soldered stuff? If not I will ignore it as a potential problem, assuming the German co knows more than me about it.


----------



## jamca

ShootingStills said:


> So the soldering thing wasn't an issue as such, but more of an unknown? As in, has anyone reported issues that correlated with the hand soldered stuff? If not I will ignore it as a potential problem, assuming the German co knows more than me about it.


I could not disagree with you. However it is annoying knowing that there is something NOT REGULAR for nowadays production lines, and was implemented as such as a quick way too keep up with the production, after AKM fire. It looks like a solution of necessity and as we got aware of it they should answer, they should reply something. It is not a cheap device to say "ok i dont care" .


----------



## ShootingStills

jamca said:


> I could not disagree with you. However it is annoying knowing that there is something NOT REGULAR for nowadays production lines, and was implemented as such as a quick way too keep up with the production, after AKM fire. It looks like a solution of necessity and as we got aware of it they should answer, they should reply something. It is not a cheap device to say "ok i dont care" .


Right, I understand what you mean. Hopefully its not a problem in that case.

Do you guys think this would work well as a home *HiFi DAC*? This is the predominant use case for me. I will use as a headphone amp too but not that often.


----------



## jamca

ShootingStills said:


> Right, I understand what you mean. Hopefully its not a problem in that case.
> 
> Do you guys think this would work well as a home *HiFi DAC*? This is the predominant use case for me. I will use as a headphone amp too but not that often.


Totally...Regardless the "issue" it is a great DAC one of the best, great usability and wonderfull amp...Also works as preamp...


----------



## ShootingStills

Wasn't sure if I would get cast out onto the streets for asking about HiFi here 
Awesome thank you.

Basically I have just bought an SMSL SU-9 DAC, love it, love the sound, very dubious of the longevity and the failure risk down the line, tonnes of reports of then stopping working. Shoddy internals I think. Thinking of returning and buying this instead. Thanks for your help


----------



## DarginMahkum

ShootingStills said:


> Do you guys think this would work well as a home *HiFi DAC*? This is the predominant use case for me. I will use as a headphone amp too but not that often.


I use the DAC mainly for driving my active speakers in the living room. I or my wife also use it for driving HPs when the other needs some silence. Also being able to EQ due to room imperfections is great. I wouldn't even consider using anything else.


----------



## ShootingStills

Thanks Dargin. The headphone amp is a great little benefit for sure. I am definitely returning the SMSL SU9n that is for sure. I have no confidence in its long term reliability. How do you think this compares to something like the SMSL I am getting rid of, or the Topping DX7 or D90SE?

I am concerned about long term performance and reliability... It seems Topping are better at this than SMSL but by no means great. While RME has no problems at all that I have seen.


----------



## wantan

Reading ASR occasionally it seems many people have issues with Topping gear. 
Buy the RME at a regular dealer so you get 2 years warranty, if it manages to survive that time it should stay with you for ages. I find RME very reliable, similar to Sennheiser and Violectric. 

Performance is just fantastic on all fronts, I've never had something like this before. It offers so much more than everything else, fantastic USB implementation, digi check, auto ref. level, iem out. This stuff alone stands out against the competition.

You need to be willing to get into all the technical details though. It takes some time to fully understand the unit and it's setting.


----------



## DarginMahkum

ShootingStills said:


> Thanks Dargin. The headphone amp is a great little benefit for sure. I am definitely returning the SMSL SU9n that is for sure. I have no confidence in its long term reliability. How do you think this compares to something like the SMSL I am getting rid of, or the Topping DX7 or D90SE?
> 
> I am concerned about long term performance and reliability... It seems Topping are better at this than SMSL but by no means great. While RME has no problems at all that I have seen.


I am probably one of the lucky few that I didn't have any issues with his audio toys.  Before ADI-2 I had the T+A HA200 which costs 8x the price of ADI-2 new and but had a display problem sometime after I sold it. It apparently also had a software bug and with some sources there was no sound after the first start. And there was no way to update the software by the user and it had to be updated by T+A or an official reseller.

I am no way missing it for the audio performance and features for sure but neither the A90 nor our RMEs failed on us - unlike the HA200 which failed on the person I sold it to. For sure the luck factor is always there, but at least I didn't have any negative experience with ADI-2 or A90.


----------



## jamca

DarginMahkum said:


> I am probably one of the lucky few that I didn't have any issues with his audio toys.  Before ADI-2 I had the T+A HA200 which costs 8x the price of ADI-2 new and but had a display problem sometime after I sold it. It apparently also had a software bug and with some sources there was no sound after the first start. And there was no way to update the software by the user and it had to be updated by T+A or an official reseller.
> 
> I am no way missing it for the audio performance and features for sure but neither the A90 nor our RMEs failed on us - unlike the HA200 which failed on the person I sold it to. For sure the luck factor is always there, but at least I didn't have any negative experience with ADI-2 or A90.


There have also been issues with RME adi 2 screen...if you search you will find posts. It is a matter of luck, and of each company's will to help. But it is too sad not to be able to update by yourself the firmware, especially for such expensive device. Of course it is a plus for me for RME, as not only they provide a program for easy update, but also there have been many updates, always providing something new.


----------



## IXOYE

So I've set up the parametric EQ on my RME ADI-2 DAC for my headphones and it sounds great, but I'm a little confused by the preamp gain value. I understand what it's for, in that it reduces the overall level of the signal by the maximum boost of any of the parameters, to prevent clipping, but I can't for the life of me figure out where to set this value on the RME ADI-2 DAC.

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## Matias

IXOYE said:


> So I've set up the parametric EQ on my RME ADI-2 DAC for my headphones and it sounds great, but I'm a little confused by the preamp gain value. I understand what it's for, in that it reduces the overall level of the signal by the maximum boost of any of the parameters, to prevent clipping, but I can't for the life of me figure out where to set this value on the RME ADI-2 DAC.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!


As far as I know it calculates and applies automatically, or else testing any massive peak EQ would be reaching 0 dBFS and distortion would be clearly audible.


----------



## jamca

IXOYE said:


> So I've set up the parametric EQ on my RME ADI-2 DAC for my headphones and it sounds great, but I'm a little confused by the preamp gain value. I understand what it's for, in that it reduces the overall level of the signal by the maximum boost of any of the parameters, to prevent clipping, but I can't for the life of me figure out where to set this value on the RME ADI-2 DAC.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!RM


RME adi-2 has a great eq (i wish to be an update with 10 bands) with no distortion at all. It is the only eq i have heard that does not add or subtract anything. You should not have distortion unless you push the eq too high, which i think is normal to happen. Set auto control for gain and you should be fine. EQ is good for me, but within limits. I believe you can eq an already good headphone/speaker, in order to get the best sound, but cannot fix a terrible one.


----------



## wantan

As far as I'm aware the DSP adjusts preamp gain automatically and there are no optional settings available.


----------



## IXOYE

Thanks for the replies guys, I set it on auto ref mode and call it a day then.


----------



## IXOYE (Nov 20, 2022)

I played around with EQ for my Sundara tonight and I clearly noticed that I got stronger deeper bass with the same settings using the first EQ band as low-shelf instead of using the bass control as low-shelf, I wonder why there is such big difference between them?


----------



## UMN

I have been streaming Spotify Premium thru a Bluesound Node into my RME (and then into my headphones.) I would like to increase my fidelity. I read that Tidal won't give me any improvement over Spotify Premium because the RME doesn't handle MQA. Is there an alternative (Qobuz or Deezer) that is not that complicated to use with my RME?


----------



## rivonlol

UMN said:


> I have been streaming Spotify Premium thru a Bluesound Node into my RME (and then into my headphones.) I would like to increase my fidelity. I read that Tidal won't give me any improvement over Spotify Premium because the RME doesn't handle MQA. Is there an alternative (Qobuz or Deezer) that is not that complicated to use with my RME?


I like Qobuz. It’s easy to use and you can use something like Soundiiz to transfer your Spotify playlists to Qobuz


----------



## ShootingStills

Amazon Music is another option. I am quite impressed by this having used tidal previously. Their high res library is ever growing


----------



## LKLok825

Hi everyone. I just step into the headphone field from earphones. Does anyone know if RME adi-2 DAC has enough power to directly drive ATH-R70X or Hifiman Edition XS?


----------



## Quinto

LKLok825 said:


> Hi everyone. I just step into the headphone field from earphones. Does anyone know if RME adi-2 DAC has enough power to directly drive ATH-R70X or Hifiman Edition XS?


It has enough power to drive anything except the typical hard to drive phones


----------



## LKLok825

Thanks for the reply. R70X has an 470 ohms impedance. I just wonder, does adi-2 have enough power to drive it. It seems to  me that worry too much.


----------



## Quinto

It drives the 600ohm HD800S fine so ..


----------



## barontan2418

Quinto said:


> It drives the 600ohm HD800S fine so ..


600 or 300 ohm's?


----------



## Quinto

barontan2418 said:


> 600 or 300 ohm's?


o 300


----------



## DarginMahkum

Quinto said:


> o 300


The impedance of HD800S is not constant. So it is actually 350 to 650.  Especially for dynamic drivers this is the case.






Post in thread 'Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ser-hd800s-review-headphone.18424/post-602314


----------



## jamca

music_man said:


> I was an Engineer for 38 years. Now I am an elderly cripple. I made many hit CD's through this box. It really ;lets us monitor with headphones. The Lavry,Apogee,Benchmark all fell short IMO. We always had to rally between Genelec nearfield monitors and DT770 Pro's. With this and better headphones such as the K872, mastering could fully be accomplished solely on headphones. The soundstage, placement, micing everything was exactly real. This new system made work much faster. What used to take me a week now took me 10-12 hours. It is a genuine tool. On page 1 of this a guy has a $129 tube amp. That can be fun. I guess it hits a bone with me because I took my job seriously. That one was not for pleasure. It easily could be though. I cannot even see hooking it up to the WA33 Elite JPS. Now that is talking though. I kind of wonder how it would sound through a cost no object amp. An Topping A90 or A30, even a Cavelli or IFI Pro will not do it justice IMO. That is all subjective. I personally would not sleep on the amp in there. That is a serious amp. It is not like an OPA1612 IC. It is a MOSFET current loopback design.
> 
> As for the LPS, I think luckily only very few people were interested in that with this. RME said not to do it. Just as Monoprice said not to subject the LP HPA to it. Then everyone cried when their LP died 2 day's later. RME, I would really listen to.
> 
> ...


I had in the past some Chinese dacs but non of them had pcb patch with soldered cables, unlike to rme adi 2 early ess versions…Every Chinese Dac I used had pcb that was tidy and clean and did not looked like they had to hurry to keep up with production…


----------



## FinHifi

Fun stuff, this song can trigger DC Protection: HVDES - Wasteland
RME volume max, and same with pc and spotify volume. Adjust the level on your external amp if you have one.
Not an issue if you just lover the dac and pc volume and use external amp adjustment. 

Did not work with youtube version.


----------



## mcgo

Among other things, I listen to CRUNCHY Amiga MOD files of various quality and quite a few of them will trigger DC protection. Who knows what crazy things happened to some of the samples they use!

BTW: be careful since MODs can be a rabbit hole!  Crossfeed is a godsend since Amiga hardware is hard pan L/R.


----------



## DarginMahkum

mcgo said:


> Among other things, I listen to CRUNCHY Amiga MOD files of various quality and quite a few of them will trigger DC protection. Who knows what crazy things happened to some of the samples they use!
> 
> BTW: be careful since MODs can be a rabbit hole!  Crossfeed is a godsend since Amiga hardware is hard pan L/R.


An old Amiga fan here, many years a dedicated soldier of PC vs Amiga wars. It has been a long while since I listened to any MOD file, though. I used to rip music from games and demos. Good that you reminded me. I will check my favorites.


----------



## DarginMahkum

My long wait is over...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rme...f-more-stunning-features.837026/post-17282979


----------



## ostuni

IXOYE said:


> I'm sure it's been said somewhere but going through 354 pages would be more than I can handle right now.
> So I'm wondering if the RME ADI-2 DAC pairs well with Sundara and Arya Stealth? I have Sundara at the moment and am thinking of upgrading to Arya SE later, but thought I'd take the opportunity to buy this DAC/AMP first as I'm getting a good price on it right now.



its the features you should shop for at the price above $200.   
RME lacks bluetooth, USB C and MQA support.  If you need those features then skip RME.


----------



## IXOYE

The Crossfeed option is an exquisite option on RME, now can I finally listen on headphones for hours without feeling fatigue, I'm in love with this Dac/Amp now.


----------



## UMN

Looking to improve from Spotify premium, I signed up for a trial of Amazon HD. Then I discovered that my streamer, Bluesound Node, will only allow Amazon HD thru the BluOS system which is very clunky. I really want to avoid that route. Canceled the Amazon. Actually, only Spotify and Tidal can work directly, without BluOS. I am trying Tidal Hifi+ right now. Interestingly, on the RME State Overview screen Spotify Premium streams into the RME at SR of 44.1, Bit 16. Tidal Hifi (non MQA ) tracks stream at 44.1 SR & 24 bit. MQA tracks stream at 88.2 SR & 24 bit ! I have no way of comparing the sound quality of the same track in Hifi vs. MQA. However, both Hifi and Master tracks clearly sound better than Spotify Premium.

My favorite music genre is Smooth Jazz which is not the most popular of genres. Only about 15-20% of the albums are currently MQA, the remainder are Hifi.


----------



## OCC7N

There is truly something weird about this DAC. I am talking from using Arya V2 perspective.

If we get past that it is a very neutral and flat sounding dac….smoooth and veeery clean.

This smoothnes or clean sounding character, cuts of a lot of details to my ears. Its like it becomes more holographic with some big “holes” missing parts.

I seriously doubt AryaV2 is a good pair with this DAC. It feels so weak/slow now that I have some time using it.

What headphones is the best to pair with this dac?

Focals or Sennheisers?


----------



## ShootingStills

OCC7N said:


> There is truly something weird about this DAC. I am talking from using Arya V2 perspective.
> 
> If we get past that it is a very neutral and flat sounding dac….smoooth and veeery clean.
> 
> ...


Well it won’t be anything to do with the ‘DAC’ as that is totally transparent and converts digital to analogue completely neutrally.

Maybe you feel the headphone amp is not to your liking. It obviously has full EQ so you can tune to your preference


----------



## OCC7N (Dec 10, 2022)

maybe its the amp. Never thought of that. Will try it.

I thought maybe a good ddc and spdif coax would fire up some soul to the dac also.


----------



## DarginMahkum

OCC7N said:


> There is truly something weird about this DAC. I am talking from using Arya V2 perspective.
> 
> If we get past that it is a very neutral and flat sounding dac….smoooth and veeery clean.
> 
> ...


RME develops professional tools, meaning transparent in every possible way with least amount of additives. Then it gives you possibilities of tweaking to your liking or for compensating the imperfections of your headphone tuning, which is mainly the EQ. This is for both the DAC and amplifier, which are both technically beyond human hearing perfect and clean.

So there's no specific pairing that it aims for. In fact, I don't see why anyone would buy the ADI-2 and not use the DSP features to tune to a specific preference. This is also what I would suggest you to do. Invest some time to figure out what you can do with it and how you can tune it to your liking, with any headphone you have.


----------



## OCC7N

DarginMahkum said:


> RME develops professional tools, meaning transparent in every possible way with least amount of additives. Then it gives you possibilities of tweaking to your liking or for compensating the imperfections of your headphone tuning, which is mainly the EQ. This is for both the DAC and amplifier, which are both technically beyond human hearing perfect and clean.
> 
> So there's no specific pairing that it aims for. In fact, I don't see why anyone would buy the ADI-2 and not use the DSP features to tune to a specific preference. This is also what I would suggest you to do. Invest some time to figure out what you can do with it and how you can tune it to your liking, with any headphone you have.


It has a dry/mat tone no matter the tuning. It makes the mid recessed to my ears. The treble is clear but the mids are hollow


----------



## phthora

DarginMahkum said:


> RME develops professional tools, meaning transparent in every possible way with least amount of additives. Then it gives you possibilities of tweaking to your liking or for compensating the imperfections of your headphone tuning, which is mainly the EQ. This is for both the DAC and amplifier, which are both technically beyond human hearing perfect and clean.
> 
> So there's no specific pairing that it aims for. In fact, I don't see why anyone would buy the ADI-2 and not use the DSP features to tune to a specific preference. This is also what I would suggest you to do. Invest some time to figure out what you can do with it and how you can tune it to your liking, with any headphone you have.



I agree with your point broadly: it's sort of a waste of potential to not use the amazing DSP features. However, even without those, it remains a remarkably clean, decidedly capable AIO in a very small case.


----------



## jamca

OCC7N said:


> There is truly something weird about this DAC. I am talking from using Arya V2 perspective.
> 
> If we get past that it is a very neutral and flat sounding dac….smoooth and veeery clean.
> 
> ...


Which rme adi 2fs dac version do you have, Ess or the older AKM?


----------



## DarginMahkum

jamca said:


> Which rme adi 2fs dac version do you have, Ess or the older AKM?


Why does it matter?


OCC7N said:


> It has a dry/mat tone no matter the tuning. It makes the mid recessed to my ears. The treble is clear but the mids are hollow


Then you are looking for a device with added imperfections and distortion, and you have room to improve in your tweaking skills. Best look for something else.


----------



## jamca

DarginMahkum said:


> Why does it matter?


I have read that Ess is somehow drier than AKM version , which has better mids. I have heard other AKM implementations but no RMEs. It could be the case if you have Ess... There have been analytical measurements which shows that AKM has 2nd harmonics which gives you this sense of fullness that you say you miss, in constrast with Ess that has more 3rd and 5th harmonics which has the opposite effect. However i think that Adi 2 drives perfectly the Arya, and somehow takes away the sharp highs of these but in a good way.


----------



## DarginMahkum

jamca said:


> I have read that Ess is somehow drier than AKM version , which has better mids. I have heard other AKM implementations but no RMEs. It could be the case if you have Ess... There have been analytical measurements which shows that AKM has 2nd harmonics which gives you this sense of fullness that you say you miss, in constrast with Ess that has more 3rd and 5th harmonics which has the opposite effect. However i think that Adi 2 drives perfectly the Arya, and somehow takes away the sharp highs of these but in a good way.


RME mentioned multiple times that there is absolutely no audible difference. Plus I had both ESS and AKM versions at the same for about a year and I can confirm that what RME says is true.

The main point is whether "the full circuit implementation" is audibly different. Any difference lower than human hearing limits will not matter in any shape or form.


----------



## jamca

DarginMahkum said:


> RME mentioned multiple times that there is absolutely no audible difference. Plus I had both ESS and AKM versions at the same for about a year and I can confirm that what RME says is true.
> 
> The main point is whether "the full circuit implementation" is audibly different. Any difference lower than human hearing limits will not matter in any shape or form.


i dont care what RME says (as it is a company that want to sell products), but i care about your experience as you had both. Perhaps then it has something to do with the amp section. I can say that RMEs amp is unbeatable at this price point, not so much because it is that great at full headphones, but it does really good job at both headphones and iems, which is rare. I think it drives perfectly Aryas and if you find it a little hollow you should try some eq tweaking, but i suppose you already did it.


----------



## DarginMahkum

jamca said:


> i dont care what RME says (as it is a company that want to sell products), but i care about your experience as you had both. Perhaps then it has something to do with the amp section. I can say that RMEs amp is unbeatable at this price point, not so much because it is that great at full headphones, but it does really good job at both headphones and iems, which is rare. I think it drives perfectly Aryas and if you find it a little hollow you should try some eq tweaking, but i suppose you already did it.


Ehmmm...I am not the one that finds it hollow, by the way. 

I use my ADI-2s (both DAC and Pro 2/4) both with Susvara and DCA Stealth and I don't think there is anything the amplifier lacks. I had much more expensive gear, like T+A HA200 or Benchmark HPA4, and I have no regrets replacing them with an ADI-2. So I don't think it is the price point that makes the difference but the quality of engineering.


----------



## ld100

jamca said:


> I have read that Ess is somehow drier than AKM version , which has better mids. I have heard other AKM implementations but no RMEs. It could be the case if you have Ess... There have been analytical measurements which shows that AKM has 2nd harmonics which gives you this sense of fullness that you say you miss, in constrast with Ess that has more 3rd and 5th harmonics which has the opposite effect. However i think that Adi 2 drives perfectly the Arya, and somehow takes away the sharp highs of these but in a good way.


----------



## OCC7N

Ok sorry for sparking another discussion. I should have said: "What headphones do you guys like" "Have you done anything to improve the sound to your likings"

Its all about staying woke as possible, neutral as possible, opinions belongs to the past....Therefore I am sorry


----------



## jamca

OCC7N said:


> Ok sorry for sparking another discussion. I should have said: "What headphones do you guys like" "Have you done anything to improve the sound to your likings"
> 
> Its all about staying woke as possible, neutral as possible, opinions belongs to the past....Therefore I am sorry


Although i am keen on using EQ, most of the times i feel that i improve frequency response, but i loose the transparency/clarity/character of the headphone, so i go back to stock. I do believe that there is not neutrality as we would want to. Unfortunately more than one headphone is inevitable in order to have some kind of neutrality in different genres. The only phones i have tried and where close to what you want were the focal clear originals and the shure 1540. However the first was not as open as i would want and the second one was technically inferior, very enjoyable though (the only headphone i listened to the music and forgot i had headphones on my head).


----------



## DarginMahkum

jamca said:


> Although i am keen on using EQ, most of the times i feel that i improve frequency response, but i loose the transparency/clarity/character of the headphone, so i go back to stock.


That is most probably because you are not using the EQ properly.


jamca said:


> I do believe that there is not neutrality as we would want to.


Sorry, it has nothing to do with believing. It is not a religion.


jamca said:


> Unfortunately more than one headphone is inevitable in order to have some kind of neutrality in different genres. The only phones i have tried and where close to what you want were the focal clear originals and the shure 1540. However the first was not as open as i would want and the second one was technically inferior, very enjoyable though (the only headphone i listened to the music and forgot i had headphones on my head).


----------



## jamca

DarginMahkum said:


> That is most probably because you are not using the EQ properly.
> 
> Sorry, it has nothing to do with believing. It is not a religion.


Perhaps i do not use the eq properly, however i try to be very gentle  . As long as believing in neutrality i was misunderstood. Of course there is objectivity, i was referring to headphones. I mean i do not believe that there is out there a truly neutral headphone. That one headphone sounds correct for one genre and another one sounds correct for another genre. Also even if there was a perfectly neutral headphone, which frequency curve it should follow? I think it is debatable. There is objectivity for measurements about dacs and amps, as signal should be transferred as it is, but the way we perceive the sound through headphones is a grey zone for many reasons.


----------



## DarginMahkum

jamca said:


> Perhaps i do not use the eq properly, however i try to be very gentle  . As long as believing in neutrality i was misunderstood. Of course there is objectivity, i was referring to headphones. I mean i do not believe that there is out there a truly neutral headphone. That one headphone sounds correct for one genre and another one sounds correct for another genre. Also even if there was a perfectly neutral headphone, which frequency curve it should follow? I think it is debatable. There is objectivity for measurements about dacs and amps, as signal should be transferred as it is, but the way we perceive the sound through headphones is a grey zone for many reasons.


Often the problem is either the production or our expectations. Production might differ so much, even within an album. Or there is a remix which has completely different bass and treble response. Also, it is unlikely people would like a concert hall acoustics with dead neutral speakers in clubs. So yes, people might prefer to have different tunings for different musics. Though I still believe in reference HPs (like DCA Stealth), with squeaky clean 20Hz to 18 kHz reproduction, without unexpected dips or spikes in frequency response, so that they can be easily retuned via EQ. That's why they are my endgame and I am not even checking what is new in the market anymore.

The tricky point about EQ is that it is all relative and when you tune, for example, something in the lows you might lose the clarity of the mids. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It might change even depending on how tired your ears are.

So yeah, no single solution to rule them all as there is no absolute references for preferences for both producers and listeners. Harman Target is a good and often acceptable reference, though.

Where I don't fully agree is that, audiophiles are often exaggerating the gray zone you mentioned. There's a lot we know and tweak in the user space. After I started listening through HPs more seriously, despite my technical background I wanted to experience things first hand and lost a lot of money in hypes (that doesn't exclude the HPs I have at the moment but at least I drew the line) until I came to my senses. I would recommend everyone to be aware of things around them objectively to reach the level of subjective joy they are looking for. There is often too much misinformation to sell products which are nowhere near what they claim.

Anyway... Back to ADI-2...


----------



## IXOYE (Dec 13, 2022)

OCC7N said:


> Ok sorry for sparking another discussion. I should have said: "What headphones do you guys like" "Have you done anything to improve the sound to your likings"
> 
> Its all about staying woke as possible, neutral as possible, opinions belongs to the past....Therefore I am sorry


I have at the moment Sennheizer 660s and Sundara, I use EQ on both, as far as I understand no manufacturer has tuned their sound specifically to suit my ears, so in my opinion all headphones need to be EQ'd, I use NOS filter and Crossfeed 2 (Jan Meier emulation) and both sound devine with RME ADI-2, but i'm considering to sell my Sundara and buy Arya SE as a Christmas present for myself.


----------



## OCC7N

Any impressions on coax/spdif input?

Im gonna try it when I get my DDC running though, but have no cables yet.


----------



## DarginMahkum

OCC7N said:


> Any impressions on coax/spdif input?
> 
> Im gonna try it when I get my DDC running though, but have no cables yet.


Same as USB.


----------



## eswng679

DarginMahkum said:


> Same as USB.


Agree with audio quality being same for both SPDIF and USB. I run the RME with a Schiit EITR via SPDIF but have noticed no differences in sound.

The only thing I will note is that I can't seem to change the sample rate beyond 48K via USB (option is greyed out in Windows sound settings) but I can change it to 24/96 on the EITR. Anyone know how I can change the settings on USB for the RME?


----------



## OCC7N

I might have some impression of this dacs that made me realise a revelation. Wow!

Sometimes things gotta be read as a book. 

I never understood it till yesterday.

This DAC keeps me out of the music, it makes me objectively listening. I dont feel the music is in my room, but like at a distant. Like it should be, if I were to mix in a pro studio…..

I dont enjoy music on this like other DAC. It feels like every song I hear, is like for the first time.


----------



## Forsaked

eswng679 said:


> Agree with audio quality being same for both SPDIF and USB. I run the RME with a Schiit EITR via SPDIF but have noticed no differences in sound.
> 
> The only thing I will note is that I can't seem to change the sample rate beyond 48K via USB (option is greyed out in Windows sound settings) but I can change it to 24/96 on the EITR. Anyone know how I can change the settings on USB for the RME?


Do you have the RME ASIO driver installed?


----------



## eswng679

Forsaked said:


> Do you have the RME ASIO driver installed?


I do not. First time I’ve heard of it. How does one install that?


----------



## G8torbyte (Dec 13, 2022)

eswng679 said:


> I do not. First time I’ve heard of it. How does one install that?


This is from the readme file with RME's latest driver update for ADI-2 DAC:

Important information: Driver version 0.9801
Installation
-------------
Latest driver:
https://rme-audio.de/downloads/driver_madiface_win_09801.zip

Latest firmware
https://rme-audio.de/downloads/fut_madiface_win.zip

The firmware update is not possible unless the driver had been installed before.

Follow the instructions of the RME Driver Install Wizard. This tool installs/updates all driver files. After that attach the device (in case of first time installation) or reboot (in case of an update) the computer.
----------------------
News, changes and fixes
V 0.9801 (11/17/2022)
- Added support for new devices
New in TotalMix FX 1.78:
- Added support for new devices
- Bug fix: in rare cases the upload of UCX II mixer data did not work reliable
- Bug fix: muted routings to mono output channels caused a mismatch message with the UCX II


----------



## eswng679

G8torbyte said:


> This is from the readme file with RME's latest driver update for ADI-2 DAC:
> 
> Important information: Driver version 0.9801
> Installation
> ...


I just updated my unit with both the drivers and firmware. Thanks for this! I am now able to select the sample rates via the MADIinterface. Windows settings also allows for various sample rates in the drop down menu. I was also on firmware v.30 so it's great to have the latest updates. Very happy that RME continues to improve and support their products.


----------



## kenshinhimura

IXOYE said:


> I have at the moment Sennheizer 660s and Sundara, I use EQ on both, as far as I understand no manufacturer has tuned their sound specifically to suit my ears, so in my opinion all headphones need to be EQ'd, I use NOS filter and Crossfeed 2 (Jan Meier emulation) and both sound devine with RME ADI-2, but i'm considering to sell my Sundara and buy Arya SE as a Christmas present for myself.


I just bought a ADI-2 from another forum member yesterday, so waiting for that to come in this week. The Arya SE sounds glorious running from Mojo 2 to 789 amp so can't go wrong with that purchase.  I also bought a HE6SE for $400 during black friday sale hoping it would match Arya and I could save money but Arya SE is clearly better


----------



## OCC7N

I am wondering if anybody tried a DDC before the ADi-2?

Also do you hear any difference on the inputs in general: USB/SPDIF/OPTICAL

I started to like this dac, and I have a spdif2 in spare that Im thinking of using with it. I only have a Wireworld Supernova 7 cable. Maybe COAX has a more analogish sound?


----------



## David A Silva (Dec 18, 2022)

OCC7N said:


> I am wondering if anybody tried a DDC before the ADi-2?
> 
> Also do you hear any difference on the inputs in general: USB/SPDIF/OPTICAL
> 
> I started to like this dac, and I have a spdif2 in spare that Im thinking of using with it. I only have a Wireworld Supernova 7 cable. Maybe COAX has a more analogish sound?


Personally I find both the usb and spdif inputs sound the same, haven't tried the optical. I don't believe type of input would yield a more analogue sound, If you want an analogue sound maybe feeding the rme into a tube amp.


----------



## eswng679 (Dec 18, 2022)

David A Silva said:


> Personally I find both the usb and spdif inputs sound the same, haven't tried the optical. I don't believe type of input would yield a more analogue sound, If you want an analogue sound maybe feeding the rme into a tube amp.


Like the poster above, I previously had a Schiit EITR before going to the ADI via SPDIF. Didn’t notice any difference in sound between either. The RME has advanced clocks via USB and I have no doubt that it would be at the highest performance already.

Unbeknownst to me, I was on an older firmware and was not able to change the bitrates on the RME (it was locked to 48k). I used the EITR to change the bitrate to 24/96 for Amazon HD before feeding it via SPDIF. Had always found it a bit of hassle adding another piece of gear to the chain. However, having since updated the firmware last week, the EITR is packed away to save space and make things less complicated. It sounded the same anyways.

Enjoy this tech marvel!


----------



## ld100

IS there any easy guide on how to use the EQ? Set and store? I can't figure it out and the manual is really not helpful.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

OCC7N said:


> I am wondering if anybody tried a DDC before the ADi-2?
> 
> Also do you hear any difference on the inputs in general: USB/SPDIF/OPTICAL
> 
> I started to like this dac, and I have a spdif2 in spare that Im thinking of using with it. I only have a Wireworld Supernova 7 cable. Maybe COAX has a more analogish sound?



I have my RME running off my DI-20 via coaxial S/PDIF.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ld100 said:


> IS there any easy guide on how to use the EQ? Set and store? I can't figure it out and the manual is really not helpful.


There are some videos on the 'tube from RME. Not super helpful but better than nothing.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

eswng679 said:


> Like the poster above, I previously had a Schiit EITR before going to the ADI via SPDIF. Didn’t notice any difference in sound between either. The RME has advanced clocks via USB and I have no doubt that it would be at the highest performance already.
> 
> Unbeknownst to me, I was on an older firmware and was not able to change the bitrates on the RME (it was locked to 48k). I used the EITR to change the bitrate to 24/96 for Amazon HD before feeding it via SPDIF. Had always found it a bit of hassle adding another piece of gear to the chain. However, having since updated the firmware last week, the EITR is packed away to save space and make things less complicated. It sounded the same anyways.
> 
> Enjoy this tech marvel!


It was because you weren't using the ASIO driver, not because of a firmware update.


----------



## David A Silva

ld100 said:


> IS there any easy guide on how to use the EQ? Set and store? I can't figure it out and the manual is really not helpful.


EQ is set in the i/o menu. Press upper knob until selection is at the top, then turn the bottom knob to parametric eq. From there up and down cursor by pressing upper snd lower knobs, change value by turning lower knob.
To save values, press eq button until you see text mode. Press lower  button until you get to press button for 2 secs ( don't remember exact secs ) and you will see saved message. To name the setting it's easier if you refer to the manual.


----------



## OCC7N

I just tried:

X-SPDIF2 > Wireworld Supernova 7 > Adi2 optical input.

First of the optical input has always felt a tat bit weak in volume.

Second. It only refined/texture the low end, but took away some glare: turned darkish abit in the upper highs.

Hmm maybe it was because different USB cable. Gonna try the other one later.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Check all the RME settings. There is way too much there that can go wrong.


----------



## Svperstar

So I just got a new job paying way more then my last job so to celebrate I was thinking of getting the RME ADI2.

I am a gamer and in some games I use Loudness Equalization, this is an Enhancement in Windows sound settings:






Can anyone who uses the RME ADI2 confirm that you can use Loudness Equalization by checking your sound settings? It works perfectly fine on my Topping D30.

Thanks


----------



## OCC7N (Dec 28, 2022)

Svperstar said:


> So I just got a new job paying way more then my last job so to celebrate I was thinking of getting the RME ADI2.
> 
> I am a gamer and in some games I use Loudness Equalization, this is an Enhancement in Windows sound settings:
> 
> ...


Will check in a moment. I use that dac for gaming also😊🙌

What are you exactly looking for as answer?

I just checked I have ticket them all of. Hmm I will try the Loudness Enhancer anyway now


----------



## David A Silva

Svperstar said:


> So I just got a new job paying way more then my last job so to celebrate I was thinking of getting the RME ADI2.
> 
> I am a gamer and in some games I use Loudness Equalization, this is an Enhancement in Windows sound settings:
> 
> ...


Better than Windows Loudness Eq, the RME has an extremely adjustable Loudness Eq. You can pick treble and bass start frequencies the max increase of treble and bass separately, and the volume level where compensation starts.


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## OCC7N

Svperstar said:


> So I just got a new job paying way more then my last job so to celebrate I was thinking of getting the RME ADI2.
> 
> I am a gamer and in some games I use Loudness Equalization, this is an Enhancement in Windows sound settings:
> 
> ...


Its sounds better with Loudness Enhancer to my ears. On my ADI2:

BT is OFF
Eq is off

Loudness:

B 4
T 4
LVR -20

I like the bass more with loudness enhancer


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## gimmeheadroom

OCC7N said:


> Its sounds better with Loudness Enhancer to my ears. On my ADI2:
> 
> BT is OFF
> Eq is off
> ...


Classic "Loudness" is designed for low listening levels. When you get closer to live performance levels it shouldn't be necessary.



Svperstar said:


> So I just got a new job paying way more then my last job so to celebrate I was thinking of getting the RME ADI2.
> 
> I am a gamer and in some games I use Loudness Equalization, this is an Enhancement in Windows sound settings:
> 
> ...


You should be using ASIO drivers and in that case, Windows sound settings have no effect.


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## Mayza

I agree, loudness is handy but with experience I changed the way I use ADI’s parameters. 
now I really prefer some sort of Harman’s curve stored in EQ and play with B/T for finals adjustments (How I feel, type of production)
 It’s true that ADI by itself could be an end game amp/DAC.

Strange enough, I prefer use it with a good tube amp (more distortions bring more realism to me 🤪)


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## Svperstar (Jan 4, 2023)

Started reading Head-fi in 2003 and registered an account in 2004, so it took me 20 years to get an "end game" DAC lol
I've been enjoying my RME ADI-2 for a few days now. Just a _little bit_ of an upgrade over my Topping D30 lol.

I have an Audeze LCD-2 Classic set to be delivered today but Amazon is taking their sweet time.

Anyway I got some balanced XLR cables and I am running RME-ADI2 -> SMSL SP200 and testing back and forth. This is not scientific at all and I am trying to match volume but it seems to me the SP200 just drives all of my cans with more authority and feels like it has a wider soundstage then the built in headphone out on the ADI-2. This could be placebo and it also could be because I have been using the SP200 as my daily driver for like 2.5 years so I am just more used too it. Not sure. I have the ADI-2 headphone jack set to High Power mode.

Something about those THX amps and all the clean power on tap.

I'm actually tempted to get a Topping A90 Discreet just for the amount of power it puts out.

Has anyone paired a Topping A90 Discreet with the RME ADI-2?


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## gimmeheadroom (Jan 4, 2023)

Svperstar said:


> Started reading Head-fi in 2003 and registered an account in 2004, so it took me 20 years to get an "end game" DAC lol
> I've been enjoying my RME ADI-2 for a few days now. Just a _little bit_ of an upgrade over my Topping D30 lol.
> 
> I have an Audeze LCD-2 Classic set to be delivered today but Amazon is taking their sweet time.
> ...


The ADI-2 FS drives the LCD-2C like a champ. No need for a separate amp for those cans.

I agree it does not do a great job with 300 ohm Sennies or 250 ohm Beyers. But, I would not recommend any of those amps you mentioned.


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## Another Audiophile

gimmeheadroom said:


> I agree it does not do a great job with 300 ohm Sennies or 250 ohm Beyers.


Has this been your experience? The RME outputs a fair good amount of voltage in high impedance loads.


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## gimmeheadroom

Another Audiophile said:


> Has this been your experience? The RME outputs a fair good amount of voltage in high impedance loads.



What is the rated output into 300 ohms?

I wasn't happy with the RME driving my 600s or 800s, and after trying it a few times I no longer use the RME headamp at all.

It does work superbly with LCD-2C, great with 3F, and of course is pure killer with Fostex. But to my ears it doesn't swing enough voltage for high impedance dynamics.


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## Dogmatrix

Svperstar said:


> Started reading Head-fi in 2003 and registered an account in 2004, so it took me 20 years to get an "end game" DAC lol
> I've been enjoying my RME ADI-2 for a few days now. Just a _little bit_ of an upgrade over my Topping D30 lol.
> 
> I have an Audeze LCD-2 Classic set to be delivered today but Amazon is taking their sweet time.
> ...


Most probably volume match, try running the SMSL deliberately lower see if the difference persists
Should not need high gain unless you max out at low, in fact you get better performance noise etc on low


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## gimmeheadroom

OCC7N said:


> I am wondering if anybody tried a DDC before the ADi-2?
> 
> Also do you hear any difference on the inputs in general: USB/SPDIF/OPTICAL
> 
> I started to like this dac, and I have a spdif2 in spare that Im thinking of using with it. I only have a Wireworld Supernova 7 cable. Maybe COAX has a more analogish sound?



I run my RME off a DI-20 over coax. I don't use my RME much anymore though.


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## ST33L

Svperstar said:


> Started reading Head-fi in 2003 and registered an account in 2004, so it took me 20 years to get an "end game" DAC lol
> I've been enjoying my RME ADI-2 for a few days now. Just a _little bit_ of an upgrade over my Topping D30 lol.
> 
> I have an Audeze LCD-2 Classic set to be delivered today but Amazon is taking their sweet time.
> ...


I had the A90 connected, but the Jot2 has better synergy. Don’t know why, but it provides better slam via balanced…


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## ld100

Svperstar said:


> Started reading Head-fi in 2003 and registered an account in 2004, so it took me 20 years to get an "end game" DAC lol
> I've been enjoying my RME ADI-2 for a few days now. Just a _little bit_ of an upgrade over my Topping D30 lol.
> 
> I have an Audeze LCD-2 Classic set to be delivered today but Amazon is taking their sweet time.
> ...



Built it sounds ok but it is on the weaker side. I tried a few external amps with RME and everything always sounded better with an external. I am only using it as a DAC at this point...


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## Another Audiophile

gimmeheadroom said:


> What is the rated output into 300 ohms?


19 Volts at 300 ohm


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## Mayza

Svperstar said:


> Started reading Head-fi in 2003 and registered an account in 2004, so it took me 20 years to get an "end game" DAC lol


started in 1989 with this kind of ADI FS2 ancestor https://audio-database.com/MARANTZ/amp/pm-95-e.html, actually one of the first non pro DAC/Amp, 6 times more expensive at time with less functionalities and easily beaten by the ADI FS2 nowdays 

Anyway, I could live with the ADI as my Thekk doesn't need more power (far from it).
But, unless you plan to go with difficult canet to drive and want a less "straight" presentation, I would recommend to give a try to the Trafomatic head 2






Power amp are pretty the same, but listening pleasure is not.
Appart for a matter of a very subjective choice (like mine), i don't really see the point to bypass the integrated amp.


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## Mayza

@ST33L, on the photo you posted, I notice the "OVR" at front display.
Did you overhide automatic power out mode ? No clipping ?


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## Svperstar (Jan 4, 2023)

Fun afternoon. My Audeze LCD-2 Classic came in the mail and I suddenly realized I had enough gear here to do some A/B testing.

I hooked up both of my Windows laptops next to each other. One running Topping D30 -> SMSL SP200 RCA connection. The other running RME ADI-2 -> SMSL SP200 balanced XLR connection.

Then I put on the same exact song in MusicBee and hit play at the same time, while the song was playing I was switching between the XRL and RCA connection so the music never stopped playing. I used my Hifiman Arya and brand new Audeze LCD-2 Classic.






At first the RCA connection was way louder so I raised the volume on the Line Out of the RME ADI-2 till they were earmatched.

I realize none of this is scientific but I don't hear much difference between the Topping D30 and the RME ADI-2. I mean the RME ADI-2 sounds like the soundstage is a little wider and more 3D but its not a big difference. Makes me glad I didn't spring for a AKM 4499 DAC because with my age and hearing damage I don't think I would notice a difference.


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## Svperstar

Mayza said:


> Power amp are pretty the same, but listening pleasure is not.
> Appart for a matter of a very subjective choice (like mine), i don't really see the point to bypass the integrated amp.



At this point I have been in this hobby long enough that If I was going to get a new amp I would get something ridiculous like a Benchmark or some hybrid tube amp that gives out a ton of power. I already owned the SMSL SP200 before I got the RME hence why I am playing with it.


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## DarginMahkum (Jan 4, 2023)

Svperstar said:


> At this point I have been in this hobby long enough that If I was going to get a new amp I would get something ridiculous like a Benchmark or some hybrid tube amp that gives out a ton of power. I already owned the SMSL SP200 before I got the RME hence why I am playing with it.


I had Benchmark HPA4 with ADI-2. Sold the HPA4 as I didn't benefit from its features in my use case. There was also no difference in terms of sound - which is expected.


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## gimmeheadroom (Jan 5, 2023)

Another Audiophile said:


> 19 Volts at 300 ohm



That doesn't sound reasonable. Where did you see that figure?


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## Nago

Svperstar said:


> Fun afternoon. My Audeze LCD-2 Classic came in the mail and I suddenly realized I had enough gear here to do some A/B testing.
> 
> I hooked up both of my Windows laptops next to each other. One running Topping D30 -> SMSL SP200 RCA connection. The other running RME ADI-2 -> SMSL SP200 balanced XLR connection.
> 
> ...


I was also pretty dissapointed when I figured out that the differences between neutral DACs are way smaller than what some people make you believe.

Still never regretted buying the ADI because it's super quiet, is well built, looks good and offers a huge variety of functionalities!


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## Another Audiophile

gimmeheadroom said:


> That doesn't sound reasonable. Where did you see that figure?


here are the measurements. 

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/rme-adi-2-dac-fs.php#gsc.tab=0


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## gimmeheadroom

Another Audiophile said:


> here are the measurements.
> 
> https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/rme-adi-2-dac-fs.php#gsc.tab=0


Thank you, that's a very interesting site. I'm not yet convinced since the numbers vary significantly from what RME published. I didn't review it thoroughly (and probably will not, since it does not matter to me) but the THD at 300 ohms is quite bad. So we have at least two numbers that don't line up with what I and many other people hear.


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## Another Audiophile (Jan 5, 2023)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thank you, that's a very interesting site. I'm not yet convinced since the numbers vary significantly from what RME published. I didn't review it thoroughly (and probably will not, since it does not matter to me) but the THD at 300 ohms is quite bad. So we have at least two numbers that don't line up with what I and many other people hear.


I have an OTL valve amplifier and I use the RME as a dac but the RME drives my HD6XX, HD800s and ZMF Aeolus without issues. To be fair based on your username the OTL has greater headroom


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## PrestonSturgesEnthusiast

Nago said:


> I was also pretty dissapointed when I figured out that the differences between neutral DACs are way smaller than what some people make you believe.
> 
> Still never regretted buying the ADI because it's super quiet, is well built, looks good and offers a huge variety of functionalities!


Every once in a while somebody mentions the Holo May as if talking about the holy grail, and I wonder how much of a difference it would actually make.


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## Svperstar

Before I take the time to dial in all of my headphones in the EQ, is there any reason I can't just use something like AutoEQ?
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq#usage


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## evhvis

Svperstar said:


> Before I take the time to dial in all of my headphones in the EQ, is there any reason I can't just use something like AutoEQ?
> https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq#usage


These work quite well: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets_rme_adi-2/ 
These are 10 band but you can often get away with just EQ the most important parts of the band with 6 band EQ (bass has limited frequency settings): https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets/ 

Adjust to taste if you are not happy with the result. Bass can depend a lot on the seal so some of the presets are a bit bass light and some are bass heavy.


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## Svperstar

Anyone pairing their RME with this balanced tube amp? Its only $169 so I was thinking of picking it up but not looking forward to recabling everything.

https://apos.audio/collections/head...xduoo-mt604-balanced-tube-headphone-amplifier


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