# Athena AS-B2, Paradigm Titan, or other?



## dallasstar

Hi. I'm really grateful for all of you guys who got me interested in speakers and led me to my first purchase of bookshelf speakers. Well, anyway, I'm looking to give my speakers to my parents for their living room and to get new ones for myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. So currently, I'm considering the Athena AS-B2 and the Paradigm Titans. I've heard many great things about the Titans on this forum while also hearing many great things about the Athena AS-B1 (B2 is supposed to be superior). I'm wondering if any of you guys who have experience with both of these speakers would be willing to share your opinions about these with me (or if you've heard these and found something better for a similar price, please share!). Thanks a lot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 edit:By the way, how are the Paradigm Focus in comparison to Titans?


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## screwdriver

how much are these speakers ?


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## jpr703

I've been researching Ascend Acoustics and have heard some positive comments from people that owned them.


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## x_fiddle

I just got back from a stereo listening session consisting of the Paradigm Titans & Mini Monitors, PSB 1b, Athena AS-B2 & AS-F2.

 Overall I liked the Athena AS-B2 sound just a hair better (slightly better extension) than the Paradigm Mini Monitors which is interesting because they share some very similar specifications as opposed to the other speakers I heard. Both of these speakers had a tighter sound and slightly better detail and imaging than the rest IMO.


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## dallasstar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *screwdriver* 
_how much are these speakers ?_

 

They're in the 300-400 range, but can be found used for about half that price. 

 Thanks for the impressions x_fiddle. They help a lot.


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## Patrickhat2001

I'm currently auditioning the Athena AS-B1, AS-B2 and Paradigm Atoms in my home. My amp is an old Pioneer integrated. I also own a Sonic Impact T-Amp but I find that is sounds a little thin and bass weak in comparision so I don't use it too much.

 First things first I do not care for the AS-B2, to my ears it is definately not superior to its little brother the AS-B1--other way around to my ears. I find the AS-B2 to be weak in the bass, to have a poor soundstage (sound is glued to the speaker grills) an overly bright tonal character and just an overall tizy, unrefined sound. It's a little more detailed and balanced in the midrange compared to its little brother but that's about the only positive thing I can say about it. The AS-B2 is not my cup of tea at all. 

 The AS-B1, on the other hand, is a very nice speaker. Its strength is balance--nothing about the frequency spectrum seems overly recessed or exagerated save for a little bit of roll off in the high frequecies but it's hardly noticable. Its tonal character is much more neutral and realistic than its bigger brother and it throws a pretty nice, believeble soundstage too. It also strikes just the right balance between transparency and hardness in the sound (unlike the AS-B2 which is too transparent--thin sounding--and the Atom which is too hard and thick sounding). The AS-B1 is really an impressive speaker for the price. 

 The Paradigm Atom (sorry, haven't heard the Titans) is also a good preformer save for some problems. The strength of the Atoms is in soundstage, tonal character and midrange. The Atom creates the best, most three dimensional soundstage of the three (in comparision the AS-B1s have a slight "sound glued to the grills" problem and the AS-B2 even more so), has a delightly warm tonal character (reminds me of Sennhieser's) and a great midrange that renders instruments more realistically than the two Athenas. But the Atoms also have a whole host of problems. For starters they are rolled off in the highs by quite a bit (much more so than the AS-B1s) and have a bad upper-bass hump that can really reak havoc with male vocals making them sound overly husky. Paradoxically, while the Atoms create the best soundstage of the three they also have the smallest sound--they have trouble filling the room with sound and creating a large sound image when compared to the two Athenas. Last the sound of the Atom is a little overly dense--it's hard, need more transparency--in this respect it reminds me of the closed headphones K271 and the semi-closed DT880--both of which feature an overly hard, dense sound to my ears.

 Still, even as flawed as the Atom is it's still keeping up quite well with AS-B1. I still haven't been able to decide which I prefer yet but I bet I'm going to end up keeping the AS-B1 since it's the most balanced across the board. But I'll have to listen to some more music, watch some more movies and play some more video games with both speakers until I will be able to finally decide.


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## dallasstar

Okay, so now we have x_fiddle who really liked the Athena AS-B2 after trying some speakers, and patrickhat who did not like the Athena AS-B2 after comparing it to some speakers...

 I wish this decision were easier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....
 I was leaning toward the AS-B2's earlier, buy patrickhat's impressions are making me reconsider. Keep the impressions coming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


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## Patrickhat2001

Ultimately I'd recommend auditioning them in your home on your equipment. You may think differently. Best Buy has the Athena speakers and a 30 day no questions asked return policy. I have taken advantage of BB return policy *many* times. However it appears that BB is no longer stocking AS-B2 since it is not listed on their website anymore and I bought the last pair at my store. Still, though, any BB store can request items from other stores if you ask them to.


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## peter braun

I would recommend also looking for a pair of used PSB 2Bs. They compared well with the Paradigm Mini Monitors, and now that they have been replaced with the new B25 model, they can be found for around $200-250 on Audiogon or Ebay.


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## x_fiddle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrickhat2001* 
_First things first I do not care for the AS-B2, to my ears it is definately not superior to its little brother the AS-B1--other way around to my ears. I find the AS-B2 to be weak in the bass, to have a poor soundstage (sound is glued to the speaker grills) an overly bright tonal character and just an overall tizy, unrefined sound. It's a little more detailed and balanced in the midrange compared to its little brother but that's about the only positive thing I can say about it. The AS-B2 is not my cup of tea at all. 

 The AS-B1, on the other hand, is a very nice speaker. Its strength is balance--nothing about the frequency spectrum seems overly recessed or exagerated save for a little bit of roll off in the high frequecies but it's hardly noticable. Its tonal character is much more neutral and realistic than its bigger brother and it throws a pretty nice, believeble soundstage too. It also strikes just the right balance between transparency and hardness in the sound (unlike the AS-B2 which is too transparent--thin sounding--and the Atom which is too hard and thick sounding). The AS-B1 is really an impressive speaker for the price. _

 

Patrickhat2001,

 Its really interesting that you are hearing that you are hearing that much difference in the AS-B2 between its little sibling. When I did an A/B between the two I found that the high frequencies were nearly *identical*. Using some pro-audio gear and a computer to plot frequency analysis graphs seemed to point to this as well.

 In fact the *only* physical differences between the 2 models is a slightly larger cabinet and an a slightly larger woofer on the AS-B2. The tweeter for both units is exactly the same and so is the crossover frequency *2.0kHz* and design. (my friend pulled the speaker drivers so I could take a look on the inside)

 The difference I believe you are hearing sounds like the AS-B2 hasn't yet been burned in fully or correctly with high end frequencies, either that or possibly the tweeters have been damaged in some respect.

 Last week I decided to test a brand new pair of AS-B1's sounded exactly how you described your pair - overly bright and tizzy with a smaller soundstage. Initially I was turned of and returned them until I had the chance to hear my friend's fully broken-in pair along with his AS-B2's. He mentioned both pairs took a solid 100 hours or more to fully smooth out.

 IMO I still hear the AS-B2 as the superior with more refined richer mid-range and slightly better extension.

 Really I would audition any speakers you are considering for a lengthy amount of time if at all possible. If not, keep on reading


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## rsaavedra

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_fiddle* 
_The difference I believe you are hearing sounds like the AS-B2 hasn't yet been burned in fully or correctly with high end frequencies, either that or possibly the tweeters have been damaged in some respect._

 

Or possibly he was listening to them at different toe-in angles (e.g. B1's set of speakers were toed-in more or less compared to the B2's). If sufficiently off-axis, the treble will appear to be less prominent or rolled-off, and if one set was dead on-axis, that would have sounded brighter than the other.

 [edit]Corrected spelling of "tow-in"[/edit]


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## Patrickhat2001

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_fiddle* 
_Patrickhat2001,

 Its really interesting that you are hearing that you are hearing that much difference in the AS-B2 between its little sibling. When I did an A/B between the two I found that the high frequencies were nearly *identical*. Using some pro-audio gear and a computer to plot frequency analysis graphs seemed to point to this as well.

 In fact the *only* physical differences between the 2 models is a slightly larger cabinet and an a slightly larger woofer on the AS-B2. The tweeter for both units is exactly the same and so is the crossover frequency *2.0kHz* and design. (my friend pulled the speaker drivers so I could take a look on the inside)
_

 

What can I say? I hear what I hear. I've owned both for two weeks now and the differences I hear between the two and my preferences have been stable for about 1.5 weeks. I don't bother with burn in since I believe in it only in a psychological sense. That said my AS-B2s were the display pair and so should be more burned-in than my AS-B1s following burn-in logic.

 But, perhaps I like the As-B1 because they are not as refined as their big brother. Perhaps the AS-B2s seem to have more energy in the high end because the bass seems recessed in comparision. This would not be suprising since the midrange is actually more controlled and detailed on the AS-B2. The midrange would be handled by the woofer which also, of course, handles the bass. The bass on the could be interpreted as tighter, more refined (which, I do agree with--the bass has ever slightly more bloom on the AS-B1s) but to me it also comes off as very recessed compared to the midrange and highs. Prehaps this could be what skewed my interpretation (along with other factors like differences in tonal character--even when excepting the highs the AS-B2 sounds thinner and brighter in comparision. By brighter I am refering to the tonal character not the treble).

 Anyway I can see where you are coming from with liking the AS-B2 more than the B1 but that's not my preference.

 Also both speakers had identical toe-in angles.


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## x_fiddle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrickhat2001* 
_I don't bother with burn in since I believe in it only in a psychological sense. That said my AS-B2s were the display pair and so should be more burned-in than my AS-B1s following burn-in logic._

 

I can honestly say I didn't think burn-in could have made that much of a difference untill I had the chance to do a double blind test with brand new vs 6-7 month old AS-B2's & AS-B1's.

 Nearly every time both my wife (to much surprise) and I could tell which speakers were older. The much more used speakers had a wider spacious sound, were less grainy on the high end, and much richer around the middle.

 Along with listening tests we also noticed slight differences in the frequency response measurement graphs. The new speakers werent quite as flat especially in the higher frequencies. Between the older AS-B2's and the new ones, the older speakers had even more extension and marignal dB increases on the lower end... I was told that it took quite awhile (and much pipe organ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) for the 6.5" woofer on the AS-B2 to loosen up.


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## dallasstar

I've been researching a lot, and now I've become quite intrigued by the Axiom M3ti speakers. It's as if nobody can say enough good things about them. Apparantly, they're supposed to sound better than the Titans "by far". Anyone have experience with these?


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## Asmo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dallasstar* 
_I've been researching a lot, and now I've become quite intrigued by the Axiom M3ti speakers. It's as if nobody can say enough good things about them. Apparantly, they're supposed to sound better than the Titans "by far". Anyone have experience with these?_

 

I have not heard the M3Ti but I have heard the M22Ti - I would recommend checking those out, also look for used older version Paradigm Monitor series, specifically the Monitor 5 v2 or v3 (v4 is a lil out of your price bracket), they are good value and imho the best in the monitor series.


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## Patrickhat2001

Just to follow up I ended up keeping the Atoms and returning the AS-B1s. Both are excellant budget speakers and I had a hard time making up my mind, but in the end some of the traits of the Athena started to bug me. Although the AS-B1 is a more neutral sounding speaker (to my ears) than it's bigger brother the AS-B2 it still has a little of that bright, plasticy tonal character in its sound (kinda reminds me of the Sony CD#### series) that I found so bothersome in the sound of the AS-B2. And, while the high end of the AS-B1 is also more controlled than that of the AS-B2 (again, to my ears) in the end it still seemed a little overly aggressive and became fatiguing. I discovered that I would be more comfortable living with the Atoms since none of their faults bug me to the extent that those of the Athena do. Besides, I LOVE the way the Atoms render acoustic guitar.


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## donaldekelly

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dallasstar* 
_I've been researching a lot, and now I've become quite intrigued by the Axiom M3ti speakers. It's as if nobody can say enough good things about them. Apparantly, they're supposed to sound better than the Titans "by far". Anyone have experience with these?_

 

For what it is worth 2 months later...

 I had the Titans - vast improvement over Bose 201s. Bloomy mid bass though. I ultimately sold them.

 I then got the Axiom M3s. Pretty nice, but returned them for the M22s - more detail (though some would say too much treble, but I like it and most say it is fine).

 I hear the Ascend CBM-170 and c??-340s are better than the M22s.


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